# Help--- wife spending too much time with single man, im i over reacting?



## shakazulu2420

Hello.

my wife and i have been struggling financially but we are now getting back on our feet.

Monday after work she is goint to this printer duude who has a shop he just opened, to learn printing t shirts etc. She wants him to hire her. He doesnt have staff as he just opned.
Wednesday after work she wants to go there too.
Saturday mornings she said shes free to go there and all day Sunday.

Yesterday she was going to see him and i was going to work. I cancelled work so i could go see him. We rode in her car.

He seemed nerdish. shy, quiet. and he was going to Bible study later , so we didnt stay. We went to see a design she had sent him for t shirts and he had done it graphically on his computer before he printed it and he wanted her to approve it.

Today shes there after work. I asked her if they were printing. She said she doesnt know we will see. So i asked her why she was there then and she said now they are printing hats..
Then i asked why she needs to spend all that time there , she said " we will see" . meaning she sees nothing wrong being there all those days.

He isnt her type. I am confused. She says she wants to learn how to print stuff using the printer machines in case we open a business later.

Im I over reacting.


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## tom67

I suggest you put an end to this sooner rather than later.
It is not appropiate at this point.


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## AliceA

I see a couple of things that can go wrong here, possible EA aside.

She puts in all this time for free, giving him designs and helping him print. His business does better but he still doesn't hire her.

She puts in all this time and gets a job, but because he's a small business, her wage is pittance and she works lots of unpaid overtime.

She learns all this stuff from him with the idea of opening her own business, in competition with him. If this is her goal, has she been honest about her intentions? Ethical consideration there.

Aside from that, if she is looking for work, spending a great deal of time doing free work may not be assisting that end goal, as all that time she is spending at the shop is time she is not using to search for a paid job.

Now all that stuff aside, her motives seem very wishy washy. She's given no clear answers to your questions. This makes me think she has no real clue what she is doing and that she simply enjoys spending time there and is thinking up excuses on the fly to justify being there.

Personally, I like clear, defined goals. "We'll see" is not an answer. Is she going to work there? No/don't know? Then she should move on imo.


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## shakazulu2420

She got there at 6 pm. It is 830 pm. she still there. Its monday. 
I called her and she didnt answer. sent text and said hold on(30 min ago)
Daughter called n she answered n daughter said to call me n she would.

Monday night 2.5 hrs on. what learning is this?


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## commonsenseisn't

Why would you tolerate your wife spending too much time with ANY man, single or otherwise?


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## AliceA

She is ignoring you. We don't know what her reasons are but regardless of who she is with, ignoring a spouse is a huge red flag for much larger marital problems than her hanging out with a guy.

How is your marriage usually? Are you close, like best friends? Do you go out much together? Are you happy with your sex life?


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## justaguy123

This is not appropriate.


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## shakazulu2420

called her several times. finally she called me back at 842 pm.
Told her i wasnt comfortable with this, as no man or woman would be with this arrangement. None.
I told her im not happy. She was very calm n understood. I was suprised. 
She was still there i guess thats why she was calm. She calmly said " we will talk about this at home".

I told her to text me when she leaves she said she would. Tht was 842 pm.

Its now 940 pm. she hasnt text so shes still there.
Monday night, school night, teens home.


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## brendanoco

how long has she known this guy?

do you have access to phone records or facebook?


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## AliceA

Don't get angry. Keep your cool. If she doesn't understand your point of view, ask her to put herself in your shoes, to imagine how she would feel if you were hanging out with a single woman all hours into the night, ignoring her calls, giving her vague answers to her questions about what you are doing there.

That said, I think the proverbial sh*t is about to hit the fan for you. Strap yourself in.


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## shakazulu2420

She left at 940 pm. 
I told her its only a matter of time before he starts falling for her with her spending all this time together. I asked her what she would do when that happens and she said she would leave,.
She has known him maybe a month. 

A female friend gave me advice. She said to be positively pushy. Like take an interest in his job. Get business cards and pass them out. Show up to see how he works the machines.
Stop by when shes theer with him and take 2 donuts and coffee and say " I brought these for yall, what yall printing...." then after a while say " hey man i gotta leave, what time you going to let her go cause i need to love on her and take her for a date..." In a nice manner. 
She thinks this will be more effective than me saying im uncomfortable with this.

She also advised me to show up there tomorrow and be like " I wanna support her 100%. Is there any way I can do that at home? Are there books you can give her to read, so that I support her in what shes interested in, and at the same time shes not away from home so many hrs as she has responsibilities at home too, oh and by the way give me 4 more business cards so i an pass them out.....".



I told her i was uncomfortable. She said this wednesday shes going to go. 
And on Thursday she will take orders of t shirts from football moms and cash and take to him after work.

Shes also available weekends she told him. She gave him availability.
She said he might not be able to pay $10. More maybe like $8. 
for four hrs thats $32. And it takes 20 min to go there and 20 min to come back. So factor in gas. I asked what is the gain? She said shes learning new stuff and likes to learn.

I asked her as you run around for all these moms getting shirts and orders for them, where are they at? They are at home with their men. How many of those men will be comfortable with their women spending 20 hrs a week for free or small change with a man in his shop at night, ALONE just two of them?

She said God will bless her for volunteering. I said God did not say to put your home in jeopardy to volunteer. Thats not Gods message.

I give up


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## AliceA

I would too. Some arguments you can't resolve when one person is completely unwilling to compromise. Looks like you'll be spending a lot more time with just you and your kids. Take advantage of that imo. I don't know why she'd want to give away all her time for nothing. Maybe that's her problem, she's got way too much free time. If you both had financial issues up until recently, why is she not working in a decent paying job?


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## shakazulu2420

Breeze my friend good question. I asked her why not get a job at Walmart or mac d;'s at night if extra income is what you want.

Shes like they are no family friendly.

How is spening your free evenings at this mans shop exactly family friendly?

I asked her knowing this is driving a wedge between us, why would she jeopardize our relationship, her home, for a few hrs of learning something or working for free and later for a few dollars extra aweek. She says its learning something new and she likes new stuff.

Bigger picture, if roles were reversed, id look at bigger pic. Why throw away a wife and income and love she brings, to fulfill my desire?
This decision of her being gone away this much time apart is going to affect her home front, kids and me.

And i want to meet another wife whos man , or gf whos bf will allow or rather be okay with his woman spending that much time with a man alone. 
Or a woman who will be okay with her man spending that much time with a woman ALONE


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## shakazulu2420

As a hard working man, i dont do drugs, i support my family, i love my wife and treat her like a queen, i take her meals to work when shes hungry, i leave love notes on the bed once a week when im gone to work.
Today for example she called n had forgotten her lunch at home. I got our of bed and took it to work. for her. I take food to her sometimes twice a week.
Or ill stop by a breakfast place and get her breakfast n take it to her job without her expecting me. 
Ill get flowers and say the occasion is just for the sake of it to express my love, I bust my back working. I make sacrifices.

i dont see why she cant make any sacrifices.


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## murphy5

well,

1) its darned strange behavior
and
2) you obviously have a bad feeling in your gut about this

so i would not dismiss it just yet. Maybe this guy it the guru of screen printing or something and she just wants to learn how. But it is not sounding like the best business decision...if she is artistic maybe she can set up a business selling stuff she already does on ebay?

If i were you, i would go into full snooping mode, VAR the car, software on her computer and phone, find all the old text messages. If they are doing something odd, you will see a pattern in how they are communicating.


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## The Middleman

In my opinion she is having an emotional affair at least! The time has come to start making her very uncomfortable with this situation. 

If your children are young and require being watched while she is with him, don't come home. Go to his place often and unannounced ...while she is there .... and make them uncomfortable. Stop supporting this activity right away and disclose your concerns to her parents and other family. Something is very wrong here.


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## shakazulu2420

i asked her if i could go with her on Wednesday when she goes again she asked " Do I go with you to work"?
he hasnt started paying, how is this work?

I will have no time with her to go for dinners etc. Dancing etc. She will be spending all free time there, and thast why i think even if she gets mad im going to go talk to him and explain this situation.


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## shakazulu2420

Middlemen thank you, just seen your response. No kids are teens.

My female friend adviced me to be showing up every once in a while n take like donuts n coffee and say i was on my way home n decided to stop by briefly n give u something to munch on, hang around 30 min n ask him what time she will be home as i have dates to take her on..... but that cant happen daily.

I need major game plan to nip this NOW


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## sinnister

I dont know if showing up is going to have the results you'd hoped for. You already voiced your opinion more than once and she dismissed your feelings.

You can't make her do anything she doesn't want to but you certainly don't have to put up with it.


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## The Middleman

Did you ever think of putting the "fear of god" into this ass clown? Take him to the side one day and let him know that you are "on to him" (it doesn't matter if he is the aggressor or not) and let him know that there will be consequences if you find out any line are crossed. Let him know you are watching.


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## shakazulu2420

shes now texting good mornings, im at work shes home and honestly, im not acting childish, but i think ill give her cold shoulder. No replying to texts and ill turn my phone off. Ill go home sleep and get up and go to work and when she gets home ill already be gone. 

Ill keep phone turned off for 2 days. 

I want her now to chase me, to fight for this marriage. Im tired of being the only one fighting for this ALL THE TIME.

Once i asked her last month as i was pulling MAJOR driving to work n over time, im talking like 4 hrs totaldrive back and forth from work and 12 hr shifts if she could throw something in crock pot for me and she said no that i know shes not a cooker.
She later apologized to having been on her periods and was suprised that i stay with her despite the way she acts some times.." Im suprised you have stayed this long, with the way i treat you at times, im sorry i love you".

Those are her words.

I keep fighting for this marriage and trying to make things right. Im exhausted.

she used to fight for her previous relationships. She said the guys she dated before gave her cold shoulder n she was the one always running to make things right. So i suprise her plesantly that i try . I think shes gotten spoilt.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Wanting her to chase you? She ignored your calls and texts, then promptly told you not to come by. You need a much better plan because it sounds like she wants you to leave her alone.


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## shakazulu2420

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Wanting her to chase you? She ignored your calls and texts, then promptly told you not to come by. You need a much better plan because it sounds like she wants you to leave her alone.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shakazulu2420

shakazulu2420 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


she has now text me goodmirning. And sent me a Facebook message saying hello. She never Facebook emails me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustTired

Your wife is totally disrespecting you & your feelings. She is spending way too much time on this new activity & neglecting her family. There is so much wrong with this situation. 

I would be completely livid with my husband if he spent this much time with a single woman learning a new hobby that isn't benefitting our family. I like to learn new things too but I will not sacrifice my family time for it.

I'm not sure what type of advice to give you since your wife is showing that she doesn't care about how you feel.


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## Hicks

Don't play games.

Ask her if she's "in or out" of her marriage to you.

If she's in, she ends all contact and interaction with t-shirt guy. Period end of discussion. If she's not, then you should dismiss her from your life.


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## tom67

Bottom line you can't control her.
However
You can control with what you will or will not put up with.
You have to be willing to end this marriage in order to save it.
It may be time to file for her to take you seriously.


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## MaritimeGuy

shakazulu2420 said:


> " Im suprised you have stayed this long, with the way i treat you at times, im sorry i love you".
> 
> Those are her words.


I don't know...that sounds kind of like someone trying to give you "permission" to end the relationship. As in they don't want to be the one to pull the trigger but they wouldn't be put out if you did.

I agree with Hicks...stop playing games and put everything on the table. Either she wants to be married to you or she doesn't.


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## tom67

MaritimeGuy said:


> I don't know...that sounds kind of like someone trying to give you "permission" to end the relationship. As in they don't want to be the one to pull the trigger but they wouldn't be put out if you did.
> 
> I agree with Hicks...stop playing games and put everything on the table. Either she wants to be married to you or she doesn't.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Let close friends and relatives know what is up with her.:scratchhead:


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## shakazulu2420

tom67 said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> Let close friends and relatives know what is up with her.:scratchhead:


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> I asked her knowing this is driving a wedge between us, why would she jeopardize our relationship, her home, for a few hrs of learning something or working for free and later for a few dollars extra aweek. She says its learning something new and she likes new stuff.


In other words, my husband won't do anything so I may as well get to know this new guy. Who is feeding my ego and making my heart flutter. My husband no longer does that (why don't you?). 

You can't tell her what to do. What you CAN do is tell her what YOU will do if she continues. I'd say, try this friend's way first - start hanging out at his shop every time your wife is there. Your kids are teens, they can handle a couple weeks of taking care of themselves while you put out this fire. See if that makes this guy back off and stop asking her to hang around. Odds are good he will. THEN you can take a hard look at your marriage and see why she needs this thrill and how YOU can be the one to give it to her.

And, if it doesn't work, then you will tell her that you won't accept it in YOUR marriage and if she won't agree to that, you'll have no choice but to assume she doesn't want to be married to you any more, and you'll take the appropriate steps. (remember that saying you'll divorce and actually getting divorce will take months, if not a year or two, in between) But she simply HAS to see you won't accept it. She's free to choose to hang out with him all her spare time. You're free to walk away.


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## PBear

Hicks said:


> Don't play games.
> 
> Ask her if she's "in or out" of her marriage to you.
> 
> If she's in, she ends all contact and interaction with t-shirt guy. Period end of discussion. If she's not, then you should dismiss her from your life.


Be careful about putting down boundaries you're not willing or able to enforce, though...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

How's your sex life? Has it changed recently or in the last couple of years?


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## See_Listen_Love

At least OP, you have to work on communication skills in your marriage.

My wife and I talk about things like this and we take decisions together. You two obviously do not. 

Start taking time together, to do fun things, and time for talking about subjects like this, and other.


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## OptimisticPessimist

1) Put a VAR under the drivers seat of her car, and leave it there for a week or so.

2) Consult the 5 best divorce lawyers in the area, and decide which you would use.

3) a] if the VAR has nothing incriminating, drop D papers in her lap. Say "since you wont treat me with any respect, we are done."
b] if the VAR has something incriminating, drop D papers in her lap. Say "since you are cheating and dont treat me with respect, we are done." Inform all family your wife has cheated, move all available money to accounts you control, etc.

4) Go dark- no unnecessary talking, avoid confrontation, dont do anything for her, etc.

5) Proceed with divorce process.

If she begs and pleads for another chance and you want to fix the marriage, tell her youll think about it. Wait 5 days even if youve decided in 5 minutes whether you want the marriage or not. Demand NC letter with this guy, full transparency on any and all online accounts, and enforce these boundaries.

If she doesnt fight for you, the marriage is over already. Let it go and move on with your life.

If you want to keep something (like a wife), you have to have the self-respect to be willing to lose it. If you act clingy and nice, she'll keep you around as a plan B until she secures her new lover, then she'll turn into Satan's incarnate demonizing you to everyone she possibly can. The only chance you have is to be firm, direct, and consistent.

Sorry you're here, and good luck..


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## shakazulu2420

OptimisticPessimist said:


> 1) Put a VAR under the drivers seat of her car, and leave it there for a week or so.
> 
> 2) Consult the 5 best divorce lawyers in the area, and decide which you would use.
> 
> 3) a] if the VAR has nothing incriminating, drop D papers in her lap. Say "since you wont treat me with any respect, we are done."
> b] if the VAR has something incriminating, drop D papers in her lap. Say "since you are cheating and dont treat me with respect, we are done." Inform all family your wife has cheated, move all available money to accounts you control, etc.
> 
> 4) Go dark- no unnecessary talking, avoid confrontation, dont do anything for her, etc.
> 
> 5) Proceed with divorce process.
> 
> If she begs and pleads for another chance and you want to fix the marriage, tell her youll think about it. Wait 5 days even if youve decided in 5 minutes whether you want the marriage or not. Demand NC letter with this guy, full transparency on any and all online accounts, and enforce these boundaries.
> 
> If she doesnt fight for you, the marriage is over already. Let it go and move on with your life.
> 
> If you want to keep something (like a wife), you have to have the self-respect to be willing to lose it. If you act clingy and nice, she'll keep you around as a plan B until she secures her new lover, then she'll turn into Satan's incarnate demonizing you to everyone she possibly can. The only chance you have is to be firm, direct, and consistent.
> 
> Sorry you're here, and good luck..


THANKS ALL.
We had a blow out yesterday. She even had a smirk smile on her face when I asked if she's screwing him. She said the look on her face was cause my question was silly.

I've asked her for a date next Sunday. She seemed upset. I think cause she planned on going there and spending time at the shop. I have a feeling this is an EA even if she's not aware.

This ripping me apart. That I have to plead with my wife to spend time with her. Like an appointment. 

She says she will tell him she can't be doing all those hrs there. I was headed to talk to him and she told me to let her deal with it. That she brought this issue so she will call him and tell him she can't be there as much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OptimisticPessimist

shakazulu2420 said:


> THANKS ALL.
> We had a blow out yesterday. She even had a smirk smile on her face when I asked if she's screwing him. She said the look on her face was cause my question was silly.
> 
> I've asked her for a date next Sunday. She seemed upset. I think cause she planned on going there and spending time at the shop. I have a feeling this is an EA even if she's not aware.
> 
> This ripping me apart. That I have to plead with my wife to spend time with her. Like an appointment.
> 
> She says she will tell him she can't be doing all those hrs there. I was headed to talk to him and she told me to let her deal with it. That she brought this issue so she will call him and tell him she can't be there as much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"As much" is not good enough. My advice above still stands.

Dont let her placate you. Dont let her blameshift or make *you* out to be the ridiculous one.


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## PhillyGuy13

How did she meet this guy- did I miss it?

If she truly wanted to learn the business, hook on with a business in town that is experienced, not the struggling new guy who just opened. Why THIS guy?

It's been suggested. Have you searched her phone, emails, texts, iMessages, chat apps, FB messages, game apps? Check everything that allows communication between two people.

Youve made it clear to her you are very uncomfortable with her spending time with ths man. Her response? Go f--k yourself. She places you and your marriage below her relationship with this guy. Be it professional, friendship, or otherwise. How much more are you going to put up with?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PreRaphaelite

shakazulu2420 said:


> THANKS ALL.
> We had a blow out yesterday. She even had a smirk smile on her face when I asked if she's screwing him. She said the look on her face was cause my question was silly.
> 
> I've asked her for a date next Sunday. She seemed upset. I think cause she planned on going there and spending time at the shop. I have a feeling this is an EA even if she's not aware.
> 
> This ripping me apart. That I have to plead with my wife to spend time with her. Like an appointment.
> 
> She says she will tell him she can't be doing all those hrs there. I was headed to talk to him and she told me to let her deal with it. That she brought this issue so she will call him and tell him she can't be there as much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She openly disrespects you and your concerns. 

Stop pleading, stop asking her out on dates, trust your gut feeling in this one and find evidence. 

She told you to let her deal with it because she's trying to protect him, and she may fear that he'll say things to you that she doesn't want him to say. 

Quit telling her what you're going to do. Do it without asking her, find out what's going on and prepare for the worst.


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## The Middleman

shakazulu2420 said:


> She says she will tell him she can't be doing all those hrs there. I was headed to talk to him and she told me to let her deal with it. That she brought this issue so she will call him and tell him she can't be there as much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I personally think you need to do this, not your wife. She wants to do 'damage control' with this ass clown and keep the relationship. What you need to do is to put the fear of god into him by letting him know you are 'on to them'. She also needs to have the fear of god put into her in that she can't bullsh1t you and you aren't going to roll over and do what she tells you to.

I'm sorry to say this but you are being too weak.


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## Jellybeans

breeze said:


> She puts in all this time for free, giving him designs and helping him print. His business does better but he still doesn't hire her.


:iagree:


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## shakazulu2420

Jellybeans said:


> :iagree:


I appreciate all of you. I really do. She met him when searching for a printer who will do shirts cheaper, for the football team for our kids school.

I'm planning on going there myself and talking to him man to man. I will let him know this work relationship is ruining our home and won't allow it. I just told her I wont sit and watch her spend any free time outside of work n kids activities at his shop as this is how an EA will start. No man or woman would allow their partner that much time alone with a member of the opposite sex. I've seen a few texts. Nothing sexual. But in one text when I rode with her Sunday to see him, she sent a text saying

" headed that way, I apologize that I look like a rag doll".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip

Read MMSLP

Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay.

Grow a pair, take ownership of your place in marriage.


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## Hicks

You are listening to nothing that anyone is saying.


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## Jellybeans

shakazulu2420 said:


> I'm planning on going there myself and talking to him man to man. I will let him know this work relationship is ruining our home and won't allow it.


Honestly, this is a conversation best to be had with HER.

It's your marriage with her, not with him. What did she say when you told her this is bunk?


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## The Middleman

shakazulu2420 said:


> " headed that way, I apologize that I look like a rag doll".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sorry to phrase it this way, but she is into him 'ass deep'.

Decisive action right now is in order on your part. Anything less and the risk of them becoming physically involved is very high.


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## The Middleman

Jellybeans said:


> Honestly, this is a conversation best to be had with HER.
> 
> 
> 
> It's your marriage with her, not with him. What did she say when you told her this is bunk?



Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree, he needs to see this ass wipe.


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## Jellybeans

If he hasn't had a conversation with her FIRST, he needs to.

But I agree, if he has and she is still all about spending her days with this guy, then yeah he should have a little chat with the nerd.


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## PhillyGuy13

shakazulu2420 said:


> But in one text when I rode with her Sunday to see him, she sent a text saying
> 
> " headed that way, I apologize that I look like a rag doll".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See this is bad news. She didn't have time to primp and get ready for the visit, because you were going and hat would have raised flags with you. So instead she sends him this text. 1. It's a t-shirt: print shop, with ink and paint or whatever all over the place- it's messy you wouldn't doll yourself up to work there. she has made herself pretty for her visits in the past, this time she didn't. 2. She's trying to solicit a reply "oh, you still looked great, or you could never look like a rag doll"

Need to shut this down hard, man.

Is the business with the team's tshirts finished? How long does it take to get this job done? 

"Wife, I will now take the responsibility of making sure the tshirt job is finished. I will deal with it all. You are now out of the loop. You are to have no further contact with the guy or his shop. Zero. Non negotiable. If he contacts you I am to be informed immediately."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shakazulu2420

Hicks said:


> You are listening to nothing that anyone is saying.


Hicks I'm listening trust me I am. I wouldn't come here if u didn't want solutions. I'm listening to all your saying. I'm going to execute the plan. I'm awaiting more feedback etc.

But me not listening to what anyone is saying........emm not accurate at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shakazulu2420

shakazulu2420 said:


> Hicks I'm listening trust me I am. I wouldn't come here if u didn't want solutions. I'm listening to all your saying. I'm going to execute the plan. I'm awaiting more feedback etc.
> 
> But me not listening to what anyone is saying........emm not accurate at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm going to have to go see him. Put a lil fear if God in him. Not beat him up no. But tell him this is messing up my marriage and sir I will not allow it. Find another person to help here at this shop. I will not allow this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shakazulu2420

Q tip said:


> Read MMSLP
> 
> Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay.
> 
> Grow a pair, take ownership of your place in marriage.


IS IT ON HERE?????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shakazulu2420

_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

The t shirts should be done by next week. Then she wants to take on part time work there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

shakazulu2420 said:


> The t shirts should be done by next week. Then she wants to take on part time work there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Your answer needs to be NO!


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## PhillyGuy13

shakazulu2420 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The t shirts should be done by next week. Then she wants to take on part time work there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's not a good idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> I was headed to talk to him and she told me to let her deal with it. That she brought this issue so she will call him and tell him she can't be there as much.


Uh, yeah, NO. NEVER let the cheater control the outcome. 

You need to go see him and tell him to back the hell off.

And tell HER that there IS no 'as much.' Unless you are right there with her. You have to lead your family, shak. She NEEDS you to be strong and stop ASKING her and start TELLING her this is unacceptable and you won't stay married to someone who spends hours with another man after her husband said it bothers him.


----------



## naiveonedave

mmslp is a book, buy it, yesterday.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

PreRaphaelite said:


> Stop pleading, stop asking her out on dates,


I agree with this 100%. 

No need to apologize for being weak. You don't owe us any explanations. It's much easier for us on the outside to tell you what to do than it is for you when it's your life. The only person you're responsible to is yourself

The bottom line is you have the right to live within your own comfort zone. If your wife spending every free moment with another man is outside your comfort zone you have a right to decide you will not accept it. Your wife doesn't decide what you're comfortable with and what you're not. Don't let her convince you you need to learn to live with it. Decide that on your own. If you're not...I know I wouldn't be...than it has to stop...or else you can't stay married to her.


----------



## jdd

*Re: Re: Help--- wife spending too much time with single man, im i over reacting?*



shakazulu2420 said:


> She met him when searching for a printer who will do shirts cheaper, for the football team for our kids school.


Order them online. You can find them so cheap via a Google search it's crazy. As in less than half the price I ever paid locally.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Sometimes nothing works like a letter. Wrote her one this am. She said she's going to tell him she can't work there. In the letter I said you tell him or I will. That made her know I expect her to do it or ill be doing it. So she knows I'm not joking. 
And I insisted saying we need time together. It doesn't have to cost. Can be a picnic. With sandwiches from our kitchen in the back yard. The important thing is time together ALONE.

I told her id support her passion to learn printing if jts in a company with other staff. But not with a man alone. That's just inviting trouble.
I explained to her that she's in an Emotional affair and I'll not sit back like a useless idiot and watch this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Excellent!

I suggest that you now buy the book His Needs Her Needs, and the two of you start reading it, a little bit each night, together. It will make a huge difference in how you approach your marriage. (and your wanting to spend time together is one of the key components of the book, so you're on the right track)

That said, you still need to monitor this. If she spends more than 15 minutes there at a time, it's time for YOU to pay him a visit.


----------



## DoF

Document ALL of the time on the spreadsheet.

In 2 weeks, show it to her and have YOUR/HER time right next to it.

Show her the totals THEN watch her closely as you ask her "so tell me, why is it that you are spending so much time with this guy and so little with me"

Don't look for words, look for her overall reaction to this. Hand movement, anger? , Defensiveness etc

That will tell you the real story.......you still want to listen what she has to say of course.

If she gives you excuse, tell her that either this ends today or else (you define else).

If she is honest etc, she will know to cut the **** off.....its a clear warning from a concerned husband.

What she is doing is inappropriate and quite disrespectful IMO.


----------



## The Middleman

shakazulu2420 said:


> I explained to her that she's in an Emotional affair and I'll not sit back like a useless idiot and watch this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And how did she respond to this?


----------



## Q tip

Dude,

She made the marriage vows to you. Mr. t-shirt did not make any promises. He's not stopping her, you need to.

Get the book from Amazon. ASAP.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I'd still talk to him. Sorry, if it is in EA territory you need to hear the conversation.

1) No emotional outbursts, crying or screaming when you have the talk.

2) Don't talk about any troubles this is creating in your marriage. Keep it dry and to the point. Basically, when the football shirts are done, you'll call me and I'll come pick them up. Your contact with my wife is now concluded. I do not want to see, hear or find any communication between you two again. This starts right now as I walk out of this store.

Also, tell your wife NOT to delete any communication from him before, during and after the meeting.


----------



## murphy5

hey, maybe you can work out a deal, trade your wife for free T-shirts for life?? 

Wait, on the other hand, just kick his ass all over the parking lot.


----------



## shakazulu2420

murphy5 said:


> hey, maybe you can work out a deal, trade your wife for free T-shirts for life??
> 
> Wait, on the other hand, just kick his ass all over the parking lot.


Guess what. She says she told him she can't work there. She didn't go today. She said she will wait for him to come to football game Saturday n get orders n she wont take them to him.
She went home and is cleaning.

That letter must have hit home
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

shakazulu2420 said:


> Guess what. She says she told him she can't work there. She didn't go today. She said she will wait for him to come to football game Saturday n get orders n she wont take them to him.
> She went home and is cleaning.
> 
> That letter must have hit home
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shak this is good but where the f^ck was her mind a few days ago?:scratchhead:
Can the kids stay with someone this weekend you guys need alone time to clear the air and bond.
If this was a sh!t test you passed.


----------



## shakazulu2420

tom67 said:


> Shak this is good but where the f^ck was her mind a few days ago?:scratchhead:
> Can the kids stay with someone this weekend you guys need alone time to clear the air and bond.
> If this was a sh!t test you passed.


I'm wondering too. Its like seriously,shouldn't it be obvious that this is wrong? In the letter I pointed out how spending time together with someone who isnt your spouse will build a bond. Its this bond that will build an emotional connection. When an emotional connection sets in, a physical isnt far away. I told her she is in "clear danger of having an affair wheather she sees it or not"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## murphy5

it could have been a Sh*t test
It could be an ongoing affair going underground
It could be harmless business interests by neophytes

Time, and vigilance, will tell


----------



## turnera

You ARE still monitoring her, right?


----------



## PBear

You could both take a read through "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Noble1

Sounds like a good ending.

It may still be a good idea to keep some monitoring up for the next couple of weeks to ensure no contact is in place.

Good luck.


----------



## Janky

Your scenario feels all too familiar as i went through something similar.

Her not wanting you to talk to him is big problem and i hope you recognize that.

Personally, i wouldnt believe a word she says she told him.

If you arent going to confront him and take her word for it, at least monitor her for a while.


----------



## shakazulu2420

When i went by her office before I left for work, she told me how after kids football practice at 800 pm, she would go bathe and go to bed as she had a pounding headache.
Shes just text me that too now again,, that head is till pounding and shes going to bed after a bath.


----------



## shakazulu2420

She text me g night 930 pm. And said if she wakes up she will text me hello.
She was offline from facebook till 953 pm. then offlinre again at 10 pm. I called her at 1005 to give me a number on night stand. No answer. Then 10:15 shes online facebook , so i send facebook message to send me number in night stand that I need. No response.


----------



## Nucking Futs

shakazulu2420 said:


> She text me g night 930 pm. And said if she wakes up she will text me hello.
> She was offline from facebook till 953 pm. then offlinre again at 10 pm. I called her at 1005 to give me a number on night stand. No answer. Then 10:15 shes online facebook , so i send facebook message to send me number in night stand that I need. No response.


This is the part where you drove home, found her not there, then drove to his place and confronted her, right?


----------



## shakazulu2420

I would love to. I work 2 hrs away.
Im hoping shes home. Tried calling kids but they are asleep too


----------



## IcePrincess28

My two cents. 

I'm a gun nut. And I build guns too. Badass AR-15s, 300 blackouts. I build them from stripped lowers as well as put together uppers from scratch. I'm thinking about getting into the 80% lowers, since there's no need for an FFL transfer. Anyways. Gun talk.

What I'm saying is- I have a PASSION and utter LUST for guns. If I could "work for free" in a Brownells, or a gunsmithing shop. I would be there every free minute that didn't interfere with family life. 

With that being said. If there was just a man there- and he was near my age (a lot of gun smiths I know are about 30-40 yrs older than me- and a bunch of cranky republicans- So I think my bf would be okay w the alone time)- i wouldn't be putting in all that time unless my bf could be there too- or there enough that he gave his blessing. And Id also let him know he was free to drop in anytime. 

I think your wife just really enjoyed this. Made her feel needed. Made time productive. It could just be the hobby that she misses and is putting u off for- and not the fact that she wants to spend time there bc of him.


----------



## shakazulu2420

When we were arguing about it, I said id like to accompany her there and she said " do i come with you to work?"


----------



## tom67

IcePrincess28 said:


> My two cents.
> 
> I'm a gun nut. And I build guns too. Badass AR-15s, 300 blackouts. I build them from stripped lowers as well as put together uppers from scratch. I'm thinking about getting into the 80% lowers, since there's no need for an FFL transfer. Anyways. Gun talk.
> 
> What I'm saying is- I have a PASSION and utter LUST for guns. If I could "work for free" in a Brownells, or a gunsmithing shop. I would be there every free minute that didn't interfere with family life.
> 
> With that being said. If there was just a man there- and he was near my age (a lot of gun smiths I know are about 30-40 yrs older than me- and a bunch of cranky republicans- So I think my bf would be okay w the alone time)- i wouldn't be putting in all that time unless my bf could be there too- or there enough that he gave his blessing. And Id also let him know he was free to drop in anytime.
> 
> I think your wife just really enjoyed this. Made her feel needed. Made time productive. It could just be the hobby that she misses and is putting u off for- and not the fact that she wants to spend time there bc of him.


:smthumbup:
You just made Mark Koernke's day, bravo.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Facebook online for a few minutes 3 am to 306 am. Then offline. 
Online again 340 am, and this time responds to my facebook message i sent at 10 pm.
And responds to text.

Says woke up headache still.

930 pm texts good night
953 online on face book
10 pm offline
1005 I call and no answer. I send facebook message too to call me.

Online for a few min at 2 am

Online 3 am to 306 am.
Online 340 am and resonds to texts and face book message


----------



## The Middleman

Consider blocking Facebook at the router. No one in the house can get Facebook. Then wait for the reaction.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Technologically challenged. How do you do that?

My thinking( and I could be wrong) is that after she said good night and kept saying she will text me if she wakes up, she got ready and went.
Its 20 min to the shop.

But I could be wrong. I have found a place to purchase a car gps

Im working all weekend out of town and I dont believe for one minute she wont stop by there.


----------



## The Middleman

I still think you need to pay this ass clown a visit.


----------



## Tobyboy

Check mileage on her car. 
What kind of phone does she have?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

Yes I should have checked mileage. Ill do that today.

Iphone 5

middleman yes.


----------



## shakazulu2420

so far 5 moms hav ordered t shirts. Each shirt is $15. Thats 75.

Im praying she will realize how expensive this hobby is, as shes paying for gas back and forth to shop(30 minutes). He said he would give her a commission for the shirts. How much can he give her out of $75 when he has to pay himself, and labor and rent and ink and shirts etc?.
I believe sooner rather than later she will realize this hobby is costing her gas and family and she will open her eyes and see ......is it really worth all that time?


----------



## See_Listen_Love

shakazulu2420 said:


> I believe sooner rather than later she will realize this hobby is costing her gas and family and she will open her eyes and see ......is it really worth all that time?


No she won't.

Because she may be in the fog, seen the costs she makes with all the mileage.

Prepare to monitor AND do not confront until people here say so.


----------



## JustTired

shakazulu2420 said:


> Facebook online for a few minutes 3 am to 306 am. Then offline.
> Online again 340 am, and this time responds to my facebook message i sent at 10 pm.
> And responds to text.
> 
> Says woke up headache still.
> 
> 930 pm texts good night
> 953 online on face book
> 10 pm offline
> 1005 I call and no answer. I send facebook message too to call me.
> 
> Online for a few min at 2 am
> 
> Online 3 am to 306 am.
> Online 340 am and resonds to texts and face book message


OP, this right here is so fishy to me. If I have a headache (which I don't get often), I will pop a Tylenol & lay down. I don't bother even looking at my phone let alone Facebook. This _headache_ doesn't sound too debilitating to me!

Like others have suggested, it is time to do some serious digging. There's no way in the world I would disrespect my H's feelings for some dumb a$$ T-shirt printing. 

I have just taken on some new hobbies myself (soap & lotion making)....but you don't see me sniffing up some dude's a$$ to learn about it. I have bought books & done lots of trial & error in my kitchen. The point I am making is that there are other ways to learn a new hobby/skill. I am not convinced by your wife.

So sorry you are going through this. Do what you have to do to find out the information you need. If your wife has a smart phone you can activate the GPS in her phone to see where she is, there are apps for that. Install a mobile spy app on her phone. Such apps will record every text, phone call, FB activity without your wife's knowledge. 

Hopefully, you get to the bottom of this! Good luck....


----------



## DoF

At this point, I would (in person) ask her for facebook/email passwords.

Watch her reaction CLOSELY and expect the information upon asking (any time between access = her deleting stuff).

If she gets defensive etc.......you got your answer that she is up to no good.

She should have nothing to hide.


----------



## As'laDain

The above advice is spot on. Don't give any warning, and ask for the passwords in person. If you don't get them immediately, assume she is cheating. And tell her that you will assume that she is cheating if she has something to hide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

Good idea. I will do this.

She woke up late. 730 am. I said "how much sleep did u get, 3 hrs"?. She said yes. Now remember she went to bed at 1030pm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IcePrincess28

yes- in reading the past updates- I have to say- that is DEF. very weird. She's lost my vote at this point. 

Apple has apps- but they don't allow you to hide it as well. But sometimes a solution can be fairly simple. And i mention this bc you say you're somewhat technologically inept- 

When the time comes to invading her phone- ask for the iMessage name and password as well. You can check to see if the guy's number, shows up as blue bubbles in text. That means he is also an iPhone user. They use iMessage. 

If you have an apple laptop or ipad- you can log into her imessage- find out her username and password. when she is not looking, and you have her phone in your hand- immediately log onto her iMessage from an external device (you can't do it with your phone). Then delete the notification on her phone telling her that another device has logged in using her account. 

Never log out on your iPad, or laptop- bc she will receive a notification every time you log back in. Any text she sends to, and receives- you will get a copy of. You will also see all FaceTime history. A current incoming call will activate the webcam- but it will not turn on unless you accept the call. So don't freak out if you see your face on the device. Its just the webcam being activated one way. 

Of course- if she goes into Message settings, and turns off her iMessage receiving capabilities- you will no longer receive copies of sent and received iMessage items. 

Thats the free method. There are plenty of good pay for software you can find out about on TAM. They will not only let you read to and from messages, but also the location at which it was sent from. Phone calls.


----------



## murphy5

I wonder how the new IOS8 on iphones/ipads will change all this monitoring capability. I hear the data is now separately encrypted, and can not be accessed externally, even by apple.


----------



## murphy5

shakazulu2420 said:


> I would love to. I work 2 hrs away.
> Im hoping shes home. Tried calling kids but they are asleep too


the answer to this is take a half day vacation day, and instead of being 2 hours away at night, be down the street in a rental car with binoculars and a camera.


----------



## weightlifter

OKAY STOP STOP STOP. You are FVCKING THIS UP MAJOR.

Read the top link in my signature and implement. Get up after reading this post and do this NOW! This should take a weekish or less to find out. This may be savable.

Quite frankly this looks underground to me. Im thinking burner phone.

STOP TALKING TO HER for that monitoring week.

You are doing weak half azzed confronts and she is deflecting you like a green belt vs Jet Li.

THIS is what a good confront looks like. Ive written six of them for BS.

Wife comes home. you at table. One water bottle for each of you. Your throat will go dry instantly.

"Sit please"
Pull out folder with pic of OM paperclipped in corner.
"I know everything"
her: "What? deflect deflect deflect"
"You made out with him in the back room of his print shop on Sept 15th"
Show picture of them kissing on the way out
her "It was just a friendly peck"
"Do you know what it is like to know MY wife FVCKED another man in MY car on Spet 18th?"
Show picture of them in car

etc.

A confrontation is nuclear war. You aim to destroy any and all resistance with evidence.

"Golly honey this looks bad" does NOT work.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

See_Listen_Love said:


> No she won't.
> 
> Because she may be in the fog, seen the costs she makes with all the mileage.
> 
> Prepare to monitor AND do not confront until people here say so.


:iagree:

OP, time to wake up and realize that she's deceiving you about this. 

Now is the time to be careful. You need to do investigative work. Find out what's really going on. DON'T CONFRONT HER WITHOUT DOING THIS.

Her behavior points to an EA at least, and now that she knows how suspicious you are, she's trying to deflect your suspicions while at the same time continuing to carry on with this guy.

Play it cool, make it look like you're satisfied with her response to you, don't tell her anything. Time to rat the truth out. As I said before, be prepared for the worst.


----------



## DoF

murphy5 said:


> I wonder how the new IOS8 on iphones/ipads will change all this monitoring capability. I hear the data is now separately encrypted, and can not be accessed externally, even by apple.


Anything and EVERYTHING you do is monitored/saved and accessible by Phone Service provider as well as companies you use.

There is NO privacy.

Some say that one day your grand kids will be able to press a button and see ENTIRE history of their family.......

We already know that companies HAVE this in place, just a matter of enabling access....which will happen in time.

They are already giving it away to our government.....


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

murphy5 said:


> I wonder how the new IOS8 on iphones/ipads will change all this monitoring capability. I hear the data is now separately encrypted, and can not be accessed externally, even by apple.


If you believe this, I have a bridge to sell you in the Sahara Desert. If the Pentagon can get hacked no data is safe. Nor do I believe, to much evidence to the contrary, they would build a system they can't access themselves.


----------



## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> When we were arguing about it, I said id like to accompany her there and she said " do i come with you to work?"


See, here's the mistake you made. You said "I'd like to" instead of "I'm going to." You do NOT have to ask permission to protect your marriage.

And look at what happened. Because you ASKED instead of SAID, she determined that you're a wimp and she could go out til all hours of the night because, well, you're a doormat and won't do anything.


----------



## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> so far 5 moms hav ordered t shirts. Each shirt is $15. Thats 75.
> 
> Im praying she will realize how expensive this hobby is, as shes paying for gas back and forth to shop(30 minutes). He said he would give her a commission for the shirts. How much can he give her out of $75 when he has to pay himself, and labor and rent and ink and shirts etc?.
> I believe sooner rather than later she will realize this hobby is costing her gas and family and she will open her eyes and see ......is it really worth all that time?


Why are you even having this conversation with us? Yesterday you said she said she would not see him again, that he would have to come to the women to sell the shirts. 

Why have you not put your foot down?


----------



## shakazulu2420

turnera said:


> Why are you even having this conversation with us? Yesterday you said she said she would not see him again, that he would have to come to the women to sell the shirts.
> 
> Why have you not put your foot down?


 I need help......

She's having a bad day at work and says she needs to figure things out. She says she's mad at herself. To let her be. That its not me. Its her. 
What does this mean
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

It means she's about to have sex with him.


----------



## shakazulu2420

turnera said:


> It means she's about to have sex with him.


No her boss and her got into it yesterday and he had threatened to fire her over some ****. 
Bills and all stress.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Figure things out often means plan B'ing you while trying out the other guy.

Get ahead of this. You are BEHIND.

Top link. Implement. NOW


----------



## turnera

*shrug*

Believe what you will. She got all her hormones firing last night contacting him all night long and now she tells you to leave her alone. Women can't typically have feelings for two men at the same time. As her attraction for him grows, so does her disdain for you. Plus, you're putting pressure on her to give up her drug (the OM) and no addict likes that. Pretty soon you're going to get the ILYBINILWY speech.


----------



## weightlifter

Her boss going off is only going to make her weaker. Get on this or it is going to hurt like NOTHING you felt before.


----------



## Yeswecan

shakazulu2420 said:


> No her boss and her got into it yesterday and he had threatened to fire her over some ****.
> Bills and all stress.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did she tell you what the boss got pissed at your W for? Normally spouse discuss a very bad day at work and possible firing. They don't ask for "time" and say it is about "themselves."


----------



## Yeswecan

weightlifter said:


> Her boss going off is only going to make her weaker. Get on this or it is going to hurt like NOTHING you felt before.


Boss having a power play possibly to get what he wants? More.....


----------



## JustTired

Yeswecan said:


> Did she tell you what the boss got pissed at your W for? Normally spouse discuss a very bad day at work and possible firing. They don't ask for "time" and say it is about "themselves."


:iagree:

If I have a bad day at work, I will talk it out with my H & tell him how everything started. I never tell him that I need some time to myself & that it's me not him.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Yeswecan said:


> Boss having a power play possibly to get what he wants? More.....


Insubordination. She had gone over bosses head to corporate over something about uniforms. 
He had threatened one more infraction n she would lose her job. N she's having a bad day at work too.
She's angry with herself and needs to figure out something before she goes batty she said
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan

shakazulu2420 said:


> Insubordination. She had gone over bosses head to corporate over something about uniforms.
> He had threatened one more infraction n she would lose her job. N she's having a bad day at work too.
> She's angry with herself and needs to figure out something before she goes batty she said
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Interesting how she is handling what she claims is the cause for her boss pulling rank. Has she had these kinds of run-ins before with other companies she works for or is this just one boss she has trouble working with?


----------



## DoF

Can it be that she put so much effort into this "slave job she enjoys" with this douche and neglected her REAL JOB just like she IS neglecting her REAL RELATIONSHIP?

Yeah


----------



## PhillyGuy13

If she hasn't already, she will sleep with him within 72 hours. Act now.

What happened I thought this was put to bed days ago and she was going no contact??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Sigh...
Time to improvise, adapt, and overcome gunny.
VAR in her car before you leave for the weekend.
Call a trusted friend to see if they can follow her buy him dinner later.
Or if you have the $$$ PI.
You have to crush this asap.
And like BFF set up some cameras.


----------



## FormerSelf

shakazulu2420 said:


> I need help......
> 
> She's having a bad day at work and says she needs to figure things out. She says she's mad at herself. To let her be. That its not me. Its her.
> What does this mean
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was pretty much doubting an EA or a PA based on the earlier posts, as I didn't see much of the cheater script occurring. This last post, to me is of interest and can be seen in two ways:
1)Either she is considering something on the side, or 2)Your hovering is beginning to stress her out and push her away...or both 1 and 2.

My first impression was that your wife was just trying to be enterprising and learn the t-shirt business. If she was starting an affair, then you probably would have witnessed an emotional withdrawal from the marriage, secretive about her phone and computer use, odd explanations and excuses that don't seem to add up..and most importantly, an obvious new interest in her appearance via new hairstyle, makeup, and clothes...and perhaps weight loss and increase in exercise. She also may show increased irritibility towards you over little things...and seems to sabotage dates, discussions, moments of intimacy. These are common signs, NOT evidence however!!! Yet, at this stage, if she actually had started a fling, it had most certainly gone underground by now.

If I were you, I would cool it down with how you approach her, yet increase your fact-finding skills...as many people here are very informative about the most effective ways to gather evidence...yet will ALWAYS tell you to ZIP IT! 

Find a means to steel yourself and then reestablish rapport while increasing your surveillance and vigilance. A cheater will almost never crack under guilt-tripping, pleading, reasoning, yelling, stomping, and making idle threats...so quit those negative, fearful behaviors that will make her claustrophobic and ensure pushing her into the arms of another man.

Once you get ACTUAL evidence, then go to Phase II of shutting it down and going with the 180. Yet, as for now, she asked for space...and as a human entitled to her free will, you ought to grant it. 

If she had made the decision to have an affair, there is really nothing you can do to change her mind...but once you have proof, then you can set boundaries and consequences to show that you are not going to do anything to help her as she is on the wayward path.

On the other hand, if she is asking for space because of the ramp-up of negative vibe in the marriage...and you cannot come up with any proof...then use your rapport to rebuild trust and move toward a time when you can actually get together and talk about the marital challenges. 

I would also, once you are sure she isn't cheating, consider changing jobs to a closer location. To me, that is an obvious stressor to the relationship...as time and distance is not sustainable for a marriage.


----------



## shakazulu2420

FormerSelf said:


> I was pretty much doubting an EA or a PA based on the earlier posts, as I didn't see much of the cheater script occurring. This last post, to me is of interest and can be seen in two ways:
> 1)Either she is considering something on the side, or 2)Your hovering is beginning to stress her out and push her away...or both 1 and 2.
> 
> My first impression was that your wife was just trying to be enterprising and learn the t-shirt business. If she was starting an affair, then you probably would have witnessed an emotional withdrawal from the marriage, secretive about her phone and computer use, odd explanations and excuses that don't seem to add up..and most importantly, an obvious new interest in her appearance via new hairstyle, makeup, and clothes...and perhaps weight loss and increase in exercise. She also may show increased irritibility towards you over little things...and seems to sabotage dates, discussions, moments of intimacy. These are common signs, NOT evidence however!!! Yet, at this stage, if she actually had started a fling, it had most certainly gone underground by now.
> 
> If I were you, I would cool it down with how you approach her, yet increase your fact-finding skills...as many people here are very informative about the most effective ways to gather evidence...yet will ALWAYS tell you to ZIP IT!
> 
> Find a means to steel yourself and then reestablish rapport while increasing your surveillance and vigilance. A cheater will almost never crack under guilt-tripping, pleading, reasoning, yelling, stomping, and making idle threats...so quit those negative, fearful behaviors that will make her claustrophobic and ensure pushing her into the arms of another man.
> 
> Once you get ACTUAL evidence, then go to Phase II of shutting it down and going with the 180. Yet, as for now, she asked for space...and as a human entitled to her free will, you ought to grant it.
> 
> If she had made the decision to have an affair, there is really nothing you can do to change her mind...but once you have proof, then you can set boundaries and consequences to show that you are not going to do anything to help her as she is on the wayward path.
> 
> On the other hand, if she is asking for space because of the ramp-up of negative vibe in the marriage...and you cannot come up with any proof...then use your rapport to rebuild trust and move toward a time when you can actually get together and talk about the marital challenges.
> 
> I would also, once you are sure she isn't cheating, consider changing jobs to a closer location. To me, that is an obvious stressor to the relationship...as time and distance is not sustainable for a marriage.


Just stopped by her office and took her a doctor Pepper as I was headed that way after dropping my cousin at the car shop. She said she doesn't want to talk about it and just has a lot on her mind. That she has to process her thoughts and then she can talk. 
She was headed to our daughters school for a pep rally for a game tonight(boss is out for the day) its 245 pm.
Then she said after the pep rally she will return to the office for like an hr.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy

shakazulu2420 said:


> Just stopped by her office and took her a doctor Pepper as I was headed that way after dropping my cousin at the car shop. She said she doesn't want to talk about it and just has a lot on her mind. That she has to process her thoughts and then she can talk.
> She was headed to our daughters school for a pep rally for a game tonight(boss is out for the day) its 245 pm.
> Then she said after the pep rally she will return to the office for like an hr.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope your not working tonight. Your WW is fixing to go dark on you!!!


----------



## As'laDain

I smell lies.

Op, I wouldn't trust what she says to be true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tobyboy

Be prepare for her to go out tonight. If your working, call in sick but leave as if your going to work. Stakeout your own home. If not working, prepare for her to leave you with the kids while she gets "alone" time. Have a friend ready to follow her.


----------



## Chaparral

You are trying to talk your way through this. That will only make things worse. Rather than keep sniffing around like a puppy you need to think what would John Wayne or James Bond do? Would either of them by acting whiney, clingy or needy?

Download MARIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and read it tonight. Then run the MAP plan it provides. It is not a sex manual, just irritatingly titled. It is about attraction and how to maintain it.

At this point you are doing some things right but others are cutting your own throat.

Off hand it looks like she MAY be doing a lot of lying.

Have you verified her boss jumped her and she's not making this up as a cover story. If I was on the verge of getting fired, I doubt I would leave work for pep rally whether the boss was there or not.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> You are trying to talk your way through this. That will only make things worse. Rather than keep sniffing around like a puppy you need to think what would John Wayne or James Bond do? Would either of them by acting whiney, clingy or needy?
> 
> Download MARIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER and read it tonight. Then run the MAP plan it provides. It is not a sex manual, just irritatingly titled. It is about attraction and how to maintain it.
> 
> At this point you are doing some things right but others are cutting your own throat.
> 
> Off hand it looks like she MAY be doing a lot of lying.
> 
> Have you verified her boss jumped her and she's not making this up as a cover story. If I was on the verge of getting fired, I doubt I would leave work for pep rally whether the boss was there or not.


:iagree:
Have you met her boss.
Do you know where he lives?
Is he married?
Find out!


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

shakazulu2420 said:


> Just stopped by her office and took her a doctor Pepper as I was headed that way after dropping my cousin at the car shop. She said she doesn't want to talk about it and just has a lot on her mind. That she has to process her thoughts and then she can talk.
> She was headed to our daughters school for a pep rally for a game tonight(boss is out for the day) its 245 pm.
> Then she said after the pep rally she will return to the office for like an hr.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You took her a Dr. Pepper?? You are being clingy exactly when you should be creating space and _making her accountable for her actions._

She has been treating you poorly and you are rewarding her for it!


----------



## Chaparral

Leaving work right after being reprimanded seems foolhardy. Maybe there was no reprimand. Maybe she is visiting someone else. Maybe she won't really go back to work. I would call her on a work line later then see if she says she went back to work.

Like the another poster said, at first I thought this was a little smoke and no fire. Now however, things seem to be going downhill fast.

Worse yet, by the time one posts here, its because their gut has already determined something is very wrong and they're right way over 90% of the time.


----------



## tom67

Former self is right about the distance for work.
Did you say you won't be home all weekend?
Not blaming you but this may be creating problems.


----------



## murphy5

shakazulu2420 said:


> She was headed to our daughters school for a pep rally for a game tonight(boss is out for the day) its 245 pm.
> Then she said after the pep rally she will return to the office for like an hr.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


so boss threatens to fire her, and her response is to skip out of work while he is out? what if he calls looking for her? how many other times did he catch here leaving during the day "for your daughters pep rally"?

she is a real piece of work! the above shows her ethics are questionable. and this can spill over into that dificult to do "fidelity thing"


----------



## shakazulu2420

murphy5 said:


> so boss threatens to fire her, and her response is to skip out of work while he is out? what if he calls looking for her? how many other times did he catch here leaving during the day "for your daughters pep rally"?
> 
> she is a real piece of work! the above shows her ethics are questionable. and this can spill over into that dificult to do "fidelity thing"


WELL SHE JUST WROTE ME A LETTER SAYING ITS OVER. AND I CALLED THE DUDE. ABD SAID"CAN WE MEET....BUT PLEASE DONT TELL MY WIFE..." AS SOON AS I SAID THAT HE BLEW UP "IF THIS IS ABOUT SOME DRAMA I DONT WANNA HEAR IT..." THEN HE HANG UP
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/
. 
I'm broken confused turn hurt


----------



## brendanoco

shakazulu2420 said:


> WELL SHE JUST WROTE ME A LETTER SAYING ITS OVER. AND I CALLED THE DUDE. ABD SAID"CAN WE MEET....*BUT PLEASE DONT TELL MY WIFE..."* AS SOON AS I SAID THAT HE BLEW UP "IF THIS IS ABOUT SOME DRAMA I DONT WANNA HEAR IT..." THEN HE HANG UP
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/
> .
> I'm broken confused turn hurt




sorry this has happened shakazulu.

What reasons did she give for ending the marriage?

your wife is/has more than likely cheated on you tells you it is over and you are worried about what she will think when you try and contact the POSOM.

Trust me i have read hundreds of stories on different forums about cheating spouses and the worst thing you can do in this situation is try to nice her back

Read Married man sex life primer and No more mr nice guy ASAP


----------



## shakazulu2420

brendanoco said:


> sorry this has happened shakazulu.
> 
> What reason did she give for ending the marriage?
> 
> your wife is/has more than likely cheated on you tells you it is over and you are worried about what she will think when you try and contact the POSOM??.
> 
> She didn't give a reason wont even look at me. Asked me "get out of my car"....said"I cant even stand seeing you right now". I didn't do anything. SHE SAYS ITS NOT HIM
> 
> Trust me i have read hundreds of stories on different forums about cheating spouses and the worst thing you can do in this situation is try to nice her back
> 
> Read Married man sex life primer and No more mr nice guy


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

shakazulu2420 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She wont even look at me. Told me get out of my car I cant even stand to see you right now...this is after he called her and told her I called him.
I did nothing to be treated like crap. Nothing. She swears it isnt another man . She says she cant be with someone who just helps with bills but she feels nothing for. She wants a man she has fun with. She cant pretend any more.yesterday we were kool even her telling me she loves me. Day before we even made love. What happened in 48hrs that she cant even look at me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

PhillyGuy13 said:


> If she hasn't already, she will sleep with him within 72 hours. Act now.
> 
> What happened I thought this was put to bed days ago and she was going no contact??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Tobyboy said:


> I hope your not working tonight. Your WW is fixing to go dark on you!!!


You guys are the TAM prophets of the day. You both called it.

Shakazulu2420, its called blameshifting- catch a big whiff. Its now your fault, you see?

To an extent, she's telling the truth- she doesnt feel for you. Thats because you were too nice- counter-intuitive I know.

The marriage is likely over. There isnt anything you can do when the other spouse simply doesnt care for you anymore. I suggest going 180 NOW and hitting the best 5 divorce lawyers in town before she does.

Get on this NOW- do not wait! We will be here to provide you with any support and advice we can. For now, 180 and LAWYER ASAP!

**EDIT** If there is even a remote chance of saving the marriage (which I doubt), the above is the only path..


----------



## shakazulu2420

OptimisticPessimist said:


> You guys are the TAM prophets of the day. You both called it.
> 
> Shakazulu2420, its called blameshifting- catch a big whiff. Its now your fault, you see?
> 
> To an extent, she's telling the truth- she doesnt feel for you. Thats because you were too nice- counter-intuitive I know.
> 
> The marriage is likely over. There isnt anything you can do when the other spouse simply doesnt care for you anymore. I suggest going 180 NOW and hitting the best 5 divorce lawyers in town before she does.
> 
> Get on this NOW- do not wait! We will be here to provide you with any support and advice we can. For now, 180 and LAWYER ASAP!
> 
> **EDIT** If there is even a remote chance of saving the marriage (which I doubt), the above is the only path..


I called in to work im home. She isnt here. She's sleeping somewhere else. Wouldn't tell me or daughter where she is. She's sooooooooo angry at me like I cheated on her. Extreme anger . Never seen her this angry. And wont tell me why. All she says is she doesn't even want to see me now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brendanoco

shakazulu2420 said:


> I called in to work im home. She isnt here. She's sleeping somewhere else. Wouldn't tell me or daughter where she is. She's sooooooooo angry at me like I cheated on her. Extreme anger . Never seen her this angry. And wont tell me why. All she says is she doesn't even want to see me now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shes angry because she is in the fog,she is getting dopamine hits from the OM and not from you and she is angry that you are in the way of that.

Dont view her as your wife any more view her as your enemy

she slept at the POSOM house

I think its best to contact a mod and move this to CWI


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

shakazulu2420 said:


> I called in to work im home. She isnt here. She's sleeping somewhere else. Wouldn't tell me or daughter where she is. She's sooooooooo angry at me like I cheated on her. Extreme anger . Never seen her this angry. And wont tell me why. All she says is she doesn't even want to see me now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She needs to demonize you in order to have a clear conscience.

You will grow to understand. She is in the fog. Things you have done wrong years ago will be remembered. She will blame you for things that are not even your fault. She will spin this whole situation into one where she was given no choice but to leave her "loser abusive bad-in-bed stupid" husband for her new Prince.

I know youre hurting. But you NEED to hear this: you are now in a state of war. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, this is a fact. She will be manipulative, she will be cruel, she will nail your nuts to the cross and she will do so with little or no mercy.

You MUST get in FRONT of this NOW! If you wallow in your sorrows for a while, she will get the legal upper hand and you will pay the price.

It sucks youre here. Never forget SHE is the one who cheated- not you. No matter how she tries to blame you, she broke her vows and she is the one destroying this marriage for her own personal (misguided vision of) gain.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Shak, I'm sorry this has happened to you. 

This had been brewing for weeks, and despite you asking/telling her to stay away from him, she did not care.

Know that whatever problems the two of you had, no matter who was responsible for those problems, a spouse stepping out is never the solution. That is 100 percent on her. There are responsible and reasonable ways to address any issues. Don't let her tell you otherwise.

Document all of her time away from the home. Keep a journal/spreadsheet. Save it in two places. September 19. Out all night. Did not come home. Kids X and Y were home with me.

This can be helpful down the road for any legal proceedings - custody, and depending on what state you live in , assuming you are US, divorce.

Take care of yourself - for your kids sake. Get some food in your stomach, get some sleep. Lay off the booze.

Come here for support. A ton of good folks have been through hell and back. Good cheap therapy!

Hang in there.


----------



## As'laDain

I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about what you are going through shak. 

You saw it, you told her to back off, and she did not care at all that she was going to rip your heart out. 

Hang around. Your going to need the support here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

As'laDain said:


> I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about what you are going through shak.
> 
> You saw it, you told her to back off, and she did not care at all that she was going to rip your heart out.
> 
> Hang around. Your going to need the support here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUO
> 
> 
> 
> 6 am. She just came home to pick our daughter up for track meet. I was sitting at front porch. Tried to say good morning. She wont roll down window and was on her cell phone for five min as daughter got ready and came out and entered car then she opened car locks. Like ibwas going to beat her up
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## As'laDain

Don't tell her good morning. I was hoping you could have confronted her sooner because I didn't think it had gone physical yet. But her actions of the last 48 hours tells me that it just did. Right now, you have a couple options. Go straight for divorce, or try to get evidence of the affair and expose it. If you can prove the affair, you might be able to get the entire community behind you, including her family. But you cannot trust her and you certainly shouldn't be trying to be pleasant with her. Don't tell her good morning. She is lying and you know it. She can't look at you because she is doing everything in her power to avoid the tremendous guilt she is feeling, and the easiest way to do that is to blame you for it. If it is YOUR fault, then she might be able to sleep at night. 

It isn't your fault though. She planned this out. When she said she needed to figure out some things, what she meant was that she has an opportunity to bang some other dude and she is going to do it, and leave her alone because it just makes her feel guilty. So she gets irritated with you and tells herself it's all your fault. Otherwise, she would break down. 

As she continues to blame you, it will get easier for her to believe it. If you can get proof of the affair, you might be able to expose her to everyone and shatter that false image she is trying to build of you in her own head.

I'm sorry dude. She ended your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

shakazulu2420 said:


> As'laDain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about what you are going through shak.
> 
> You saw it, you told her to back off, and she did not care at all that she was going to rip your heart out.
> 
> Hang around. Your going to need the support here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUO
> 
> 
> 
> 6 am. She just came home to pick our daughter up for track meet. I was sitting at front porch. Tried to say good morning. She wont roll down window and was on her cell phone for five min as daughter got ready and came out and entered car then she opened car locks. Like ibwas going to beat her up
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> You're acting like a whipped dog, and its disgusting to her.
> 
> Also, she derives PLEASURE from seeing you hurt now. Why? Because it validates her "reasons" for cheating on you- it validates her affair.
> 
> The more you show hurt, the less she values you as a man. Please man- STOP. 180 NOW! Do not be nice. Do not say hi. If she says "hi" dont even respond and calmly walk away.
> 
> I dont want to sound like a broken record, but we are giving you this advice because we have seen this play out many times. You- like many others of the past- dont seem to be following through with our collective advice (which at least thus far noone has dissented with in this thread).
> 
> You need to protect yourself. Get a VAR immediately and have it on you at all times recording if she is around (in case she tries to file a false domestic abuse charge). Consult the top 5 divorce lawyers in your area (once consulted, they cannot be her lawyer) and pick your favorite. Get divorce papers started now.
> 
> No more Mr. Nice Guy. WAR :2gunsfiring_v1:
Click to expand...


----------



## shakazulu2420

As'laDain said:


> Don't tell her good morning. I was hoping you could have confronted her sooner because I didn't think it had gone physical yet. But her actions of the last 48 hours tells me that it just did. Right now, you have a couple options. Go straight for divorce, or try to get evidence of the affair and expose it. If you can prove the affair, you might be able to get the entire community behind you, including her family. But you cannot trust her and you certainly shouldn't be trying to be pleasant with her. Don't tell her good morning. She is lying and you know it. She can't look at you because she is doing everything in her power to avoid the tremendous guilt she is feeling, and the easiest way to do that is to blame you for it. If it is YOUR fault, then she might be able to sleep at night.
> 
> It isn't your fault though. She planned this out. When she said she needed to figure out some things, what she meant was that she has an opportunity to bang some other dude and she is going to do it, and leave her alone because it just makes her feel guilty. So she gets irritated with you and tells herself it's all your fault. Otherwise, she would break down.
> 
> As she continues to blame you, it will get easier for her to believe it. If you can get proof of the affair, you might be able to expose her to everyone and shatter that false image she is trying to build of you in her own head.
> 
> I'm sorry dude. She ended your marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I went by his shop at 11. He was there but not her car.went bk atb12 he wasn't there n he lives with his mom.she wont tell daughter where she spent the night
Tells daughter she wants to b alone. DO U THINK THEY BANGED
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

As'laDain said:


> I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about what you are going through shak.
> 
> You saw it, you told her to back off, and she did not care at all that she was going to rip your heart out.
> 
> Hang around. Your going to need the support here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

shakazulu2420 said:


> Thanks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Why wont she look at me . Why is she so angry
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

As'laDain said:


> I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about what you are going through shak.
> 
> You saw it, you told her to back off, and she did not care at all that she was going to rip your heart out.
> 
> Hang around. Your going to need the support here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Me too.

And really, she is a very very dangerous one. Let's review some facts:


She got a smirk on her face when he accused her of sleeping with him.
Just a few days ago she was saying "Good morning" and all that- now she treats him like a criminal.
She first agreed to see him less, and then agreed to not work there- this was a bold-faced LIE! She was PLANNING this!
She now drops it on him that she's leaving- do you think she's already started the divorce process to get the upper hand?

Please consider the advice you receive here OP. She could very well be a nightmare.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Don't go by his shop. 

Don't confront her. Look up the "180". Stop trying to exchange good mornings. Stop trying to he nice to her. Treat her as a former business partner, and your only common concern is the kids' schooling, schedule, and health.

Irrational behavior cannot be explained. You will drive yourself nuts trying to figure her out.

As said above, carry a voice activated recorder on you at all times. (VAR)

This is to protect yourself in case she tried to pick a fight with you -- and she will -- and then claim you were violent or abusive toward her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Do not talk to her. Do not contact her unless she comes to see you. Pack her clothes in garbage bags and send her one text to come and get them.

Go to this link and follow it to the letter, ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT BEING CHEERFUL. This sounds crazy but she cant think you are going crazy over her. She may just want what she cant have.

*. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.*


----------



## Chaparral

Its is to early to stop checking up on her, #10, do you have access to her phone bill? You need to see who she is texting and calling. Call her parents and see if they know where she spent the night.

Is there a computer at home she uses?


----------



## weightlifter

If you can get a var in her car you will know SUPER fast what is really happening...

You have the spare key... right.

Oh and get the ezoom already. Then you KNOW where she is.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Are you in a state where infidelity matters? If you don't know you can tell us the state and we'll tell you if it matters.

If it matters, you need court admissible proof. If it doesn't matter, you still need proof but there's no point in going that extreme.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here so far. You're going to get more in the coming days. It doesn't matter too much right now whether you want her back or not, what you need to be doing right now is the same for either. 

Strike hard and fast, consult with the best divorce lawyers in the area, retain one and have him file. Separate your finances, cancel any joint credit cards. Do not leave your home, do not let her move your daughter out of the house. 

If you think you might want her back, put pressure on OM to throw her under the bus. Post on cheaterville for a start. Since he's so religious send a letter to his pastor and his mother. Attack his business, put a review on yelp about him breaking up a family with adultery. Do not contact him directly any more.

Right now she's in control because she's acting and you're reacting. You need to flip that script, knock her off balance by forcing her to react to your actions. Not words, actions.

This part may be controversial with some members here. Tell your daughter the truth. Tell her her mother is breaking up the family because she is cheating with <OM name>. Don't let your wife seamlessly replace you with OM.


----------



## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> What happened in 48hrs that she cant even look at me.


She saw that another guy wanted her. That's all it takes sometimes. Instantly, YOUR model isn't so great.

What you do now matters the most. DO NOT BEG HER. Tell her fine, if she doesn't want you, she can move out. You will not BEG her to do what she does't want. DO NOT BEG.

shak, this is vitally important. DO NOT BEG. 

Got it?


----------



## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> I called in to work im home. She isnt here. She's sleeping somewhere else. Wouldn't tell me or daughter where she is. She's sooooooooo angry at me like I cheated on her. Extreme anger . Never seen her this angry. And wont tell me why. All she says is she doesn't even want to see me now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Two reasons. One, she has the 'thrill' of wanting another man. It's called the fog of an affair - keeps her from seeing reality. So logic doesn't work. Two, she is ashamed of what she's doing so she has to rewrite history to make YOU the bad guy - you weren't fun enough, you didn't trust her, you're questioning her morals. So she HAS to be mad at you.


----------



## turnera

shak, in all my years helping guys like you, I have seen only ONE THING that works on cheating wives, to get them to stop cheating. 

It's swift, determined, logical, non-emotional ACTION. She has to see that you WILL NOT BEG her to stay and that, in fact, if she wants to be alone, well, she can have it. 

Women are drawn to strong men. Now, you may think this doofus isn't strong, but he pulled your wife away from you, now didn't he? And you, on the other hand, are crying, begging, trying to say hello, begging the other man not to tell your wife you contacted him...do you see how WEAK you look?

Stop it. 

Refuse to talk to her. Get a divorce paperwork online, print it out, and leave it on the kitchen counter where she will see it. Or mail it to her if she won't come home. Call her parents and siblings RIGHT NOW and tell them she's having an affair and you need their help talking to her, letting her know this jerk will NOT be welcomed to Thanksgiving dinner. Burst her fantasy bubble TODAY so that it doesn't become entrenched.

And while you're alone, do some work on coming up with reasons why what she said had some truth to them. ARE you no fun? What else has she said about you? To pry her away from the OM, you have to offer a better option.

No matter what, act swiftly, TELL HER PARENTS TODAY, and show her you will not take this crap. She NEEDS to see you mad, strong, and unwilling to take it. She will be draw to the stronger man. 

Oh, and go visit his mom and tell her what her son is doing.


----------



## IcePrincess28

shakazulu2420 said:


> I called in to work im home. She isnt here. She's sleeping somewhere else. Wouldn't tell me or daughter where she is. She's sooooooooo angry at me like I cheated on her. Extreme anger . Never seen her this angry. And wont tell me why. All she says is she doesn't even want to see me now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Think logically- why she is angry. 

She is trying to have fun, sleeping with this new man- but you're cramping her style. 

The other day- you brought her a soda. It was obvious what you're trying to do. She looks at it- in a very pathetic way. You can't be confrontational. You have to even be nice about checking up on her.

You call the OM (regardless of PA or EA- and PA i'm sure it is, I think its official to use OM at this point) - and you don't have the courage to be direct. You say "please don't tell my wife" - you just come off as mr. Nice Guy

Guess what would've happened if I was her, and my man were you? He would've called and said- MEET ME NOW, YOU KNOW WHAT UR RESPONSIBLE FOR. WE CAN TALK LIKE MEN, OR THE ALTERNATIVE. Guess what? He will oblige. and answer all of your questions. 

In every way- you've coming off as the clingy puppy that was left home. Why are you outside attempting to engage with her? (yes- in the state of hurt- in your shoes- I understand- just trying to give you tough love). Its OBVIOUS where she was. Be INSIDE. Don't let that witch know you care.

Today- the world is now your stage. I don't mean that in that general saying- i mean- from today on- you must be an actor. You need to put on a strong face. You need to make her think that you do not care. Gather your evidence in the way the other posters instructed- and do not let her know you care. 

I can gather from all her reactions towards you- that she sees you as this sad clingy man who is following her around. And to a cheater- who is in the initial stages of being infatuated in a PA and EA- that is very unattractive to them. 

i understand how hard this is for you. I was cheated on in my marriage. It took everything in me to not look for his calls. I even secretly took 4 weeks off of work- to stay at my parents' home 1000 miles away- and got a second phone- to which I gave everyone my new number. This was so that I could set my old phone aside- not look at it all day. And being far away from home- took out the temptation of wondering where he was at, and who he was with. I ignored his calls. I blocked all his attempts in R. (but for the things he did, I felt there was no way R was possible. You will eventually need to decide on whether or not thats possible for you).

At first- before I left- I was in bed the moment I got home from work. I was a depressed mess. I would ask him when he was going to be home. That lasted about a week. One day- I caught him looking at me in a way- where I was immediately INFURIATED. He looked at me like i was his warden, and he was my prisoner. How dare he make me look like the bad guy in all of this. I am the one who was done wrong- not him. (- edit- Not to mention he had physically assaulted me!)

My pride overtook me. When he left for work around 7, I called into work. By then my boss had known what i was going thru- bc I had bags under my eyes and I was losing weight and just all around different. He okayed my month of vacation and sick days. Then, I purchased my plane ticket, packed. Cleaned the whole place. Did all the laundry. Cooked dinner, and put it in the microwave. Left a note telling him goodbye. (I cleaned the place and put dinner- bc I wanted him to realize how empty the place was- and that, that was the last time he was going to eat something that I made).

A week later when I had the courage to check the 40-50 voicemails that were accumulated. My heart almost crumbled. The calls went from- are you really gone? Stop joking around- to crying- mentions of how he came home to a beautiful clean but empty home- (icing on the cake for me) - to anger of how can you do this to me- to remorse- of please can you give me a chance.

You won't even be able to get to hear your wife say "give me a chance" - for you to determine if you want a R with her or not- bc of the way you're acting. (again- NOT YOUR FAULT- I understand that you're hurt- we've all been there!)

My heart goes out to you. If its any comfort- many of us know exactly what you're going thru.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

DoF said:


> Can it be that she put so much effort into this "slave job she enjoys" with this douche and neglected her REAL JOB just like she IS neglecting her REAL RELATIONSHIP?
> 
> Yeah


:iagree:


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Shaka, read this thread again, see where you paid not attention to what was advised, and start doing what they say to you.

At this moment your head is not clear, follow the advice without thinking about it.

Concentrate on the '180' like said.


----------



## just got it 55

shakazulu2420 said:


> THANKS ALL.
> We had a blow out yesterday. She even had a smirk smile on her face when I asked if she's screwing him. She said the look on her face was cause my question was silly.
> 
> I've asked her for a date next Sunday. She seemed upset. I think cause she planned on going there and spending time at the shop. I have a feeling this is an EA even if she's not aware.
> 
> This ripping me apart. That I have to plead with my wife to spend time with her. Like an appointment.
> 
> She says she will tell him she can't be doing all those hrs there. I was headed to talk to him and she told me to let her deal with it. That she brought this issue so she will call him and tell him she can't be there as much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is early on and I am just catching up But if you haven't done this yet, You SHOULD do this together 

55


----------



## PhillyGuy13

just got it 55 said:


> This is early on and I am just catching up But if you haven't done this yet, You SHOULD do this together
> 
> 55


Too late 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## just got it 55

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Too late
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah PG13 I saw it coming

BS's just can't seem to grasp the advice given here
My nieces husband wouldn't listen to a word I said to him
For him all is lost.

55


----------



## PhillyGuy13

just got it 55 said:


> Yeah PG13 I saw it coming
> 
> BS's just can't seem to grasp the advice given here
> My nieces husband wouldn't listen to a word I said to him
> For him all is lost.
> 
> 55


Not for lack of effort on your part, 55.

Hopefully OP Here follows some of the advice here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

shakazulu2420 said:


> 6 am. She just came home to pick our daughter up for track meet.


 No she didn't come home. She picked up your daughter, there is a HUGE difference.



> I was sitting at front porch. Tried to say good morning. She wont roll down window and was on her cell phone for five min as daughter got ready and came out and entered car then she opened car locks. Like ibwas going to beat her up


Unless you have one car, no WAY should your daughter have gone anywhere with the wife. If you were sitting on the porch, you were already awake and could have taken your daughter to Track. Yes, I'd have taken another sick day and sat at track. Wife, shows up acting a fool I'd have called the cops. Unfortunately, there are certain times when kids get put in the middle. 

Nope, I don't care if she spent the night at a girl friend's house and has proof. Time to put your foot down. 


Stop catering to your wife's whims.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Nucking Futs said:


> Are you in a state where infidelity matters? If you don't know you can tell us the state and we'll tell you if it matters.
> 
> If it matters, you need court admissible proof. If it doesn't matter, you still need proof but there's no point in going that extreme.
> 
> You've gotten a lot of good advice here so far. You're going to get more in the coming days. It doesn't matter too much right now whether you want her back or not, what you need to be doing right now is the same for either.
> 
> Strike hard and fast, consult with the best divorce lawyers in the area, retain one and have him file. Separate your finances, cancel any joint credit cards. Do not leave your home, do not let her move your daughter out of the house.
> 
> If you think you might want her back, put pressure on OM to throw her under the bus. Post on cheaterville for a start. Since he's so religious send a letter to his pastor and his mother. Attack his business, put a review on yelp about him breaking up a family with adultery. Do not contact him directly any more.
> 
> Right now she's in control because she's acting and you're reacting. You need to flip that script, knock her off balance by forcing her to react to your actions. Not words, actions.
> 
> This part may be controversial with some members here. Tell your daughter the truth. Tell her her mother is breaking up the family because she is cheating with <OM name>. Don't let your wife seamlessly replace you with OM.


She didn't come home a second nite
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13

shakazulu2420 said:


> She didn't come home a second nite
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok record it in a journal, just like yesterday.

I know you are going through a thousand emotions right now, did you read any of the great suggestions you've gotten over the past 24 hours?

Are you in the US? Which state? We ask because it can make a big difference in how much evidence you need, legal proceedings, money you are on the hook for.

How old is your daughter? I'm assuming adolescence, since she takes track. Have a calm, rational, unemotional talk with her about what is going on. Do not let your wife paint the picture.


----------



## just got it 55

shakazulu2420 said:


> She didn't come home a second nite
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


shaka

The harder and faster you move to stop this better chance you have to restore your marriage and family.

Please for the love of all that is sacred to you
Listen to the advice given here.

Show your wife your strong unwavering demeanor.

She will only punish you for your weakness.

I know a lot of advice here seems counter
intuitive .But look at it this way

If the Captain of the Titanic actually increased the speed of the ship, they may well have avoided the iceberg because of an engineering error under sizing the rutter .Because he did not have this knowledge.

Here you are given that knowledge by men and women that have experienced what you are and much worse.

Your situation is not unique. After a few posts I could see where this was all heading, and believe me I am just not that smart.

But it was clear as day and my Mother’s love for me.

55


----------



## Voltaire2013

shakazulu2420 said:


> She didn't come home a second nite
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can you track her phone? (Like find my iPhone/android) Do you have access to her bank accounts too see where the debit card is being used?

V(13)


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Shaka

I've shadowed this thread all along and have observed you are not listening and acting on the best advise you could get anywhere. Poor preemptive action on your part.

These guys actually foretold quite precisely what your wife would do and I get the impression you've just stood there and watched it unfold. I could be wrong but I doubt it. 

My question to you is: are you going to continue to make all the classic mistakes or are you going to be a man of action? Your modus operandi so far has been a dollar short and a day late.

Sorry for the tough love, but when are you going to learn? I'm really sorry for what you've endured and your wife is in the wrong, but we can help you only if you listen and implement. 

I think this is a painful thread to witness because it's like watching a slow motion train wreck that could have (maybe?) been prevented. 

Please carefully read the advise these guys give you and make sure you comprehend it. Read the posts twice. I know it's hard to do when you're reeling in pain, but it will serve you well if you do. Good luck.


----------



## PreRaphaelite

6 am. She just came home to pick our daughter up for track meet. I was sitting at front porch. Tried to say good morning. She wont roll down window and was on her cell phone for five min as daughter got ready and came out and entered car then she opened car locks. Like ibwas going to beat her up
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Realize that your wife is a dangerous person right now...to you. There's no telling how far she might go to blame you, demonize you, or even accuse you of wrongdoing. Think of your daughter.

You need to get your head on straight, fast. Quit talking to her, quit taking sodas to her at work FFS, she KNOWS why you stopped by. Her plans for a new life have gone down the drain. The guy has bailed on her and she's pi$$ed as hell at you for interfering. 

Protect yourself, your finances, and get in touch with a lawyer. Not tomorrow or the next day. 

If you want some explanation for the chaos you've just been thrown into, I suggest you do a search for "Machiavelli" and "rationalization hamster" and read what he has written about it. You may find it enlightening.


----------



## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> She didn't come home a second nite


Did you call her parents and tell them like I told you?


----------



## happy as a clam

Shak... you are in for a world of hurt if you don't take the very salient advice that is offered here.

Your wife is setting you up big time... possibly draining your joint bank accounts, possibly racking up joint credit while she gets her "new life" in order, possible bogus restraining orders (afraid to get out of the car while picking up the daughter, windows rolled up, doors locked.... I call *Bullsh*t!!!*). "Your honor, I'm AFRAID of him. He is VERY menacing and threatening!!" (Huh? :scratchhead: Talk about a drive-by... raking you over the coals).

Think of TAM as "Cheater University"... you will come away from here with a "degree" in infidelity if you listen to the advice you are getting, spend time reading the many threads of others who have gone before you, and stop trying to do it "your way"...

Just sayin' Bro....


----------



## shakazulu2420

happy as a clam said:


> Shak... you are in for a world of hurt if you don't take the very salient advice that is offered here.
> 
> Your wife is setting you up big time... possibly draining your joint bank accounts, possibly racking up joint credit while she gets her "new life" in order, possible bogus restraining orders (afraid to get out of the car while picking up the daughter, windows rolled up, doors locked.... I call *Bullsh*t!!!*). "Your honor, I'm AFRAID of him. He is VERY menacing and threatening!!" (Huh? :scratchhead: Talk about a drive-by... raking you over the coals).
> 
> Think of TAM as "Cheater University"... you will come away from here with a "degree" in infidelity if you listen to the advice you are getting, spend time reading the many threads of others who have gone before you, and stop trying to do it "your way"...
> 
> Just sayin' Bro....


From this minute fwd its 180 for me. It hurts but if she wants me she will fight for me. Wheather she cheated or not, to me I know what's important to her is her.just told her about dads cancer as he called me a.d told me. She showed zero emotion. Zero.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

DID YOU CALL her parents?


----------



## IcePrincess28

shakazulu2420 said:


> From this minute fwd its 180 for me. It hurts but if she wants me she will fight for me. Wheather she cheated or not, to me I know what's important to her is her.just told her about dads cancer as he called me a.d told me. She showed zero emotion. Zero.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Shak- I'm terribly sorry that you have to go thru all this in addition to having your dad have cancer- 

However you and I- and many would agree that you told her that- mainly hoping she would show sympathy in the form of coming back home and having your old life back. 

even if this is not the case. She could very well see it the way I'm proposing. This could be why she was cold and indifferent. It's her way of saying "don't expect me to come home and tend to you!"

Right now- you're "harassing, bugging, annoying" her- in her eyes. How unfair is that?? I'm glad you're doing the 180.


----------



## Nucking Futs

turnera said:


> DID YOU CALL her parents?


Anyone know how to make this flash?


----------



## Tasorundo

He said "as he called me" that looks like he was called by 'dad' he did not say who's dad it was.


----------



## just got it 55

shakazulu2420 said:


> From this minute fwd its 180 for me. It hurts but if she wants me she will fight for me. Wheather she cheated or not, to me I know what's important to her is her.just told her about dads cancer as he called me a.d told me. She showed zero emotion. Zero.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 shaka... now your on the program

Now put it into action

Be fierce in fighting for your family

Play to win

Take no sh!t

Take control

Take charge of your life and marriage

Hope your Dad's cancer was caught early


55


----------



## commonsenseisn't

shakazulu2420 said:


> From this minute fwd its 180 for me. It hurts but if she wants me she will fight for me. Wheather she cheated or not, to me I know what's important to her is her.just told her about dads cancer as he called me a.d told me. She showed zero emotion. Zero.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're still not paying attention.

21 years ago... I told my ex wayward wife my dad was diagnosed with Lou Gehrigs Disease the same week she betrayed me. DID NOT CARE. IRRELEVANT. 

Did you expose her to her family? Are you listening?


----------



## Chaparral

I didnt see anything suggesting the om bailed on her. Just that he wasnt going to listen to Shaka.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

shakazulu2420 said:


> she will fight for me..


I'm going to be blunt. You are being extremely weak. I told you to put your foot down with the guy. 

Instead you called him, said please and basically begged him to meet you.
Weak.

Your wife shows up, gives you dirty looks and you let your daughter leave with her.
Weak.

She goes there at 6, tells you to wait, doesn't leave until 940 and you didn't show up.
Weak.

You have your daughter text her for you.
Weak.

You took a soda to her.
Weak.

You tell her about the terrible news from your dad to shock her back into your arms.
Weak.

You let her kick you out of "your" car.
Weak.

She paid you back by hiding, disappearing and making you look like a poor husband. I'm not saying this to be mean, but get you to realize you cater to this woman and she hates it. Notice, she said it isn't another man, but she wants to have fun. Really? Really? How do you realize you aren't having fun, by having fun. 

There is nothing wrong with being worried about your spouse, male or female, spending time with a single person at all. I know we don't know all of the particulars, but this is over the top for some random dude she was "learning the business" from.

She isn't going to fight for you EVER, until you show her strength of character and emotion.

You don't do the 180 to make her fight for you.
You don't do the 180 to punish her.
You do the 180 to detach and move on. You do it to realize you can have a life as well. 

It's why so many people fail when they use the 180. They are trying to win back or punish their spouse. 

You need to decide whether you want her back or not. Either way, this wishy washy catering "you" is going to keep being a doormat.

Sorry for the news about your father. So, guess where your focus should be? On your father and your daughter, not a wayward unrepentant wife. Yes, this is going to be doubly hard, so excise the part you can control. You can't control your father's cancer, you can control how much time you spend worrying about this woman who is punishing you for putting your foot down.

Get angry. You know if you deserve this treatment or not. If you don't, quit waiting for her to come around and be proactive.


----------



## the guy

Why are you giving her such a hard time? What could be stressing her out? Why is she so angry? Why hasn't she come home?

It appears to me that you are getting in the way. You are getting in the why of something she doesn't want to answer for.

Why doesn't she want to answer these 4 basic questions?

It also appears she is ashamed and the answer to her shame is so unbearable that she can't face it her self much less with you.

What could she be so ashamed of?

It appears to me that this kind of shame can only mean one thing!

It most be really worth it for her to loose her family and her job and run away from what ever has her so ashamed.

I can only think of one thing that can make a person so confused, angry, stressed and worth running away from her family......and thats love.....to bad the other guy doesn't love your wife as much as she does the other guy.

I'm guessing her but OM got a piece of your old lady and doesn't want the drama of being with a married women. The Om got what he wanted and bailed...again I'm guessing but your old lady spend some nights with the Om to convince him other wise.


Granted I'm just guessing her but with my own experiences I know how much sexual currency a chick will spend to keep someone that she loves....no matter how much crap her husband gives her, how confused she is, how stressed she gets, and how angry she gets......in the end she will use this sexual currency to get her new love.

After all with a husband, a kid, and a job...what else does she have to offer her OM once the husband starts after the OM.

If anything I hope you see the sequence of events that have occurred in the last week and it answers some of your questions.


----------



## the guy

shakazulu2420 said:


> As'laDain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sick to my stomach just thinking about what you are going through shak.
> 
> You saw it, you told her to back off, and she did not care at all that she was going to rip your heart out.
> 
> Hang around. Your going to need the support here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUO
> 
> 
> 
> 6 am. She just came home to pick our daughter up for track meet. I was sitting at front porch. Tried to say good morning. She wont roll down window and was on her cell phone for five min as daughter got ready and came out and entered car then she opened car locks. Like ibwas going to beat her up
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no shrink, but this had nothing to do with her being scared of you.
> The car is a sample of her life, the closed window and locked door are the walls she is putting up between her and you....and the only thing for sure is she is still a mother and must open up to her kid by bringing down the wall/locked door.
> 
> I kinda believe she commit adultery and now regrets it and is so ashamed that she is locking you out of her crappy life....that she created!!!!!
> 
> I could be wrong about the regret part...maybe she loves this guy....at any rate she is locking you out of her life.
Click to expand...


----------



## As'laDain

shak, you have been dealt really ****ty cards. 

now build the future that you want. do not try to include her unless she shows that she is devoted to you. since that is not the case right now, dont fool yourself into thinking that she will magically come to her senses. assume that your marriage is over and your wife hates you. 

start building another life for yourself now. that means you have to take care of yourself first. your wife is no longer an ally. you are going to have to do this alone. so, her feelings and decisions dont matter anymore. yours obviously dont matter to her.


----------



## MattMatt

File for divorce.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

MattMatt said:


> File for divorce.


Right.
This quote may sound harsh, but she ended it with you, gave you some tired cheater sounding excuses, didn't come home, hasn't told you where she went and won't speak to you.

Get a lawyer, have papers drawn up, get custody and let her twist in the wind. You can decide later if you want to complete the divorce, but show her you mean business. The way she is acting implies you cater to her whims when she acts entitled. Sounds like she freaked because you normally let her do what she wants.


----------



## MattMatt

OP, you might need to ask to have this moved to Coping with Infidelity.

Also, suggest that printer boy needs to get a refund on his Bible study lessons. They don't seem to have done him much good, do they?


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

I dont want to sound like a jerk, but can we even be sure shakazulu2420 isn't a troll?

Sometimes after a poster explains why she has done X or done Y, shakazulu2420 asks simple 1-liner questions or makes simple 1-liner statements completely ignoring prior advice. This is similar to the responses given by trolls. 

shakazulu2420, can you please confirm with some depth that you arent a troll? Can you explain to us what your reasoning has been to ignore our advice? Can you give us any depth as to your thought processes now so that we can offer you something constructive?

I did see you taking a stronger mentality earlier (which is great), but you havent really clarified or given us much in terms of situation-immersion.

We need to see some depth of the experience to acknowledge it as genuine, and we need to see our advice being taken at least somewhat in order to have a point in continuing to offer it.

shakazulu2420, I dont mean to offend, but as a community we have to protect ourselves from wasting time on some threads where posters troll for the purpose of the enjoyment they get from wasting other's time slash riling other's up.


----------



## MattMatt

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I dont want to sound like a jerk, but can we even be sure shakazulu2420 isn't a troll?
> 
> Sometimes after a poster explains why she has done X or done Y, shakazulu2420 asks simple 1-liner questions or makes simple 1-liner statements completely ignoring prior advice. This is similar to the responses given by trolls.
> 
> shakazulu2420, can you please confirm with some depth that you arent a troll? Can you explain to us what your reasoning has been to ignore our advice? Can you give us any depth as to your thought processes now so that we can offer you something constructive?
> 
> I did see you taking a stronger mentality earlier (which is great), but you havent really clarified or given us much in terms of situation-immersion.
> 
> We need to see some depth of the experience to acknowledge it as genuine, and we need to see our advice being taken at least somewhat in order to have a point in continuing to offer it.
> 
> shakazulu2420, I dont mean to offend, but as a community we have to protect ourselves from wasting time on some threads where posters troll for the purpose of the enjoyment they get from wasting other's time slash riling other's up.


Yeah. And *that's* why we have the "report post" button so people don't have to run around screaming: "Trollllllllllllll!!!!!!" at the top of their voices.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

MattMatt said:


> Yeah. And *that's* why we have the "report post" button so people don't have to run around screaming: "Trollllllllllllll!!!!!!" at the top of their voices.


I never use "report post" and I am not trying to be offensive. I have that voice coming in my head asking "could he be..?" That said, I dont have any proof either way so I thought Id clarify with him directly. Hopefully that doesnt cross any lines?

**EDIT** I suppose I should have avoided the use of the word troll.


----------



## MattMatt

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I never use "report post" and I am not trying to be offensive. I have that voice coming in my head asking "could he be..?" That said, I dont have any proof either way so I thought Id clarify with him directly. Hopefully that doesnt cross any lines?
> 
> **EDIT** I suppose I should have avoided the use of the word troll.


You never use the report button?:scratchhead: Well, that's a pity because that is exactly what admin want us to use when we spot a suspect post.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

MattMatt said:


> You never use the report button?:scratchhead: Well, that's a pity because that is exactly what admin want us to use when we spot a suspect post.


I was raised with the "dont tell on people" ideology. I know, I know.. I am really used to handling things on my own- its not my nature to call to other people or expect anyone else's help. Of course, I will accept if its offered and needed, and I will offer my help. Im not sure if Im making sense...

Anyways, shakazulu2420 hasnt really _proven_ to be a troll- just some of his responses make me wonder is all. He's probably not- I guess I just find it hard to see a man so beaten by his WS repeatedly, and to avoid advice offered to help his situation. He's certainly not given me enough reason to use the Report button even if I did.

On standby for updates...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Derailing deleted.


----------



## shakazulu2420

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Derailing deleted.


Troll. ??

I wouldn't waste my time. I'm a grieving husband. I was away for a day as I prayed and did me. I'm entitled to that aren't I? Who said I haven't listened to advice here?

Anyway, tonight she slept home. Woke me up at two am asking if I put a lock on her phone. I said how and why. Minutes later she had unlocked it. Obviously she set a lock and forgot about it then remembered.

Yesterday too, her sister spoke with her. Wife then came and said if I wanted to talk. Her sister joined in and told her to think about it. And my wife's responded with "okay" her sis then talked n as she left she said "think about this". Wives response a second time was "okay".

Later she posted on Facebook " GUESS IM GOING TO TAKE A SHOWER AND SEE WHAT TO DO". That was Sunday 8 pm. I ignored the Facebook post. No one liked or commented. She came back showered and came to bed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Your wife said Okay to what?

Where in the house did your wife sleep last night?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Some may be questioning the legitimacy of your posts because we have been asking questions and posting a lot of good information on how to help you. You came to this board looking for advice. If you are unwilling or unable to answer the questions then we cannot help you at all. Many folks here have been in situations much worse than yours if you can believe that. They have come out the other end in a better place. They are looking to help others here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Some may be questioning the legitimacy of your posts because we have been asking questions and posting a lot of good information on how to help you. You came to this board looking for advice. If you are unwilling or unable to answer the questions then we cannot help you at all. Many folks here have been in situations much worse than yours if you can believe that. They have come out the other end in a better place. They are looking to help others here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She slept inbed with me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

shakazulu2420 said:


> She slept inbed with me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you guys. I have been listening. Just cause I dint respond in a timely manner is not cause I'm joking. I'm so busy as I'm sure you are and you take time to help.
I'm doing 180 .

I'd not troll over an issue like this. I'd rather waste time watchn football or at a bar than sit online making up stories. I'm hurting. Thanks. I hope this puts that to rest .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

shakazulu2420 said:


> Thank you guys. I have been listening. Just cause I dint respond in a timely manner is not cause I'm joking. I'm so busy as I'm sure you are and you take time to help.
> I'm doing 180 .
> 
> I'd not troll over an issue like this. I'd rather waste time watchn football or at a bar than sit online making up stories. I'm hurting. Thanks. I hope this puts that to rest .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And someone asked she said okay to what. 

Her sister spoke with her.
Then her sister told her about all the good future plans I have for my family.
Then her sister told her " think about it".My wife said "okay".

As sis was leaving she said again "please think about it"

For a second time my wife responded "okay". 
Meaning she will think about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hicks

Why don't you think about it?
Giving her the power is a huge mistake.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

shakazulu2420 said:


> Thank you guys. I have been listening. Just cause I dint respond in a timely manner is not cause I'm joking. I'm so busy as I'm sure you are and you take time to help.
> I'm doing 180 .
> 
> I'd not troll over an issue like this. I'd rather waste time watchn football or at a bar than sit online making up stories. I'm hurting. Thanks. I hope this puts that to rest .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fair enough. It happens around here and thus I jumped to a premature conclusion. I meant no offense- just wasnt sure myself.

Where you are sucks no doubt. Why did you mention her sleeping in the bed with you? Dont read into stuff like that too much. Hold onto that 180 strong and steady- she must pay a *price* for the disrespect she has shown you. That is the only way she can come to respect you.

Perhaps when you get some time you could reread some of the earlier responses? Some other members really made some good suggestions that offer you the best chance to fix your marriage. 

Also, you need to prepare yourself mentally for the (good) possibility that R will not be possible- unless she ends up _wanting_ to fix your marriage, divorce will be your only option. Be ready for this...

Best of luck..


----------



## shakazulu2420

Thanks.

No I was responding to a previous question above yours where someone asked where in the house she slept.
So I said in bed with me.


----------



## shakazulu2420

As I was leaving she asked if i could drop off her niece at a track meet practice at 6 am and she would pick her up at 7 am. I said no as I was running late for work.

She got upset.

I left for work


----------



## azteca1986

shakazulu2420 said:


> As I was leaving she asked if i could drop off her niece at a track meet practice at 6 am and she would pick her up at 7 am. I said no as I was running late for work.
> 
> She got upset.
> 
> I left for work


Good. You passed the test.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

I had asked where wife slept.

I had a feeling you would say in the bed with you.

She should have slept in the spare room, couch, or basement. She should not be in the marital bed until if/when she starts acting like a married woman again. She's been lying to you, un remorseful, smirks when you confront her. I would be afraid for my own personal safety in the house with her. One phone call to the police saying she fears for her safety and you are GONE. You have to protect yourself!!!

Seems like her sister told her to think about recommitting to you. So basically she gets to choose whether she wants you or tshirt guy? This should be YOUR choice to make not hers.

I don't want to overwhelm you or scare you, but you need to shift into the drivers seat. Start moving to protect yourself and your kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IcePrincess28

Shak-

All i see, is a man who is hurt and acting like the man your wife would never consider chasing. Right now, she considers you a charity case. She will "consider" you- she tells her sister. (but probably not). 

All you seem to care about right now- (understandably) - is what she is doing. How about what YOU are doing? What are YOU doing in the 180 program, to ensure that you are taking care of yourself? And remember- as other posters stated- the 180 is not so that your spouse would return, its something you do for yourself. Them returning, or showing great remorse, etc- is sometimes a bi-product of that. But at the rate your going- this is highly unlikely right now. 

This is the beginnings of her PA/EA. Her conscience (lack of) - is still having a power struggle with the good and bad. In the beginning- the good will have brief wins- she will think about what she has done- and possibly make attempts at being at being around, etc. But now that she's had the taste of a life of a wayward- and sees how it suits her- so these moments of trying to do right- will begin to decrease. She will/is going to show alot of resentment towards you. She will see herself as your prisoner. And you will become public enemy #1. 

Be prepared- the next time you bring a soda to her work in an attempt to spy on her- that she might very well flip the F out on you.

Just so you have it here in your thread:

*Q: What is 180 and how does it work? *

A: 180 is a *list of behaviors* from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, *that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person*. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. *No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive*. (Making it)

My own note: remember- this is something you do for YOURSELF. you do it- with the PRIMARY goal- of becoming an emotionally HEALTHY person again. 

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. *Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." * 

The last part that I bolded- is why many people file for divorce. Divorce is a proceeding that can always be halted or stopped. It takes away the WS's security blanket- in addition to insuring your investment in your own future. Paying the expensive attorney fee's is one way of forcing yourself to move forward and not make costly backward mistakes.

P.S. You should've kicked her butt out of your master bedroom, or you should've slept in a separate room. Besides being sloppy seconds - what kind of picture do you think this paints for her. She already does not respect you as a man. and now you've happily accepted her into your bed- just as she knew you would. 

Be strong- I know its hard, but when I was going thru my WS infidelity- I wish I had a network that screamed "180!!!!" to me.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

OP, how long have you been working at a job that is 2 hours from your home? Any reason why you can't find work closer to home or move closer to your work?


----------



## shakazulu2420

IcePrincess28 said:


> Shak-
> 
> All i see, is a man who is hurt and acting like the man your wife would never consider chasing. Right now, she considers you a charity case. She will "consider" you- she tells her sister. (but probably not).
> 
> All you seem to care about right now- (understandably) - is what she is doing. How about what YOU are doing? What are YOU doing in the 180 program, to ensure that you are taking care of yourself? And remember- as other posters stated- the 180 is not so that your spouse would return, its something you do for yourself. Them returning, or showing great remorse, etc- is sometimes a bi-product of that. But at the rate your going- this is highly unlikely right now.
> 
> This is the beginnings of her PA/EA. Her conscience (lack of) - is still having a power struggle with the good and bad. In the beginning- the good will have brief wins- she will think about what she has done- and possibly make attempts at being at being around, etc. But now that she's had the taste of a life of a wayward- and sees how it suits her- so these moments of trying to do right- will begin to decrease. She will/is going to show alot of resentment towards you. She will see herself as your prisoner. And you will become public enemy #1.
> 
> Be prepared- the next time you bring a soda to her work in an attempt to spy on her- that she might very well flip the F out on you.
> 
> Just so you have it here in your thread:
> 
> *Q: What is 180 and how does it work? *
> 
> A: 180 is a *list of behaviors* from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, *that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person*. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. *No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive*. (Making it)
> 
> My own note: remember- this is something you do for YOURSELF. you do it- with the PRIMARY goal- of becoming an emotionally HEALTHY person again.
> 
> So here's the list:
> 
> Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> No frequent phone calls.
> Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
> Don't follow her/him around the house.
> Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
> Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
> Don't ask for reassurances.
> Don't buy or give gifts.
> Don't schedule dates together.
> Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
> Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
> Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
> Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
> When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
> If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
> Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
> Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
> No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
> All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
> Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
> Don't be overly enthusiastic.
> Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
> Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
> Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
> Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
> Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
> Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
> Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
> Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
> Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
> Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
> Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
> When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. *Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." *
> 
> The last part that I bolded- is why many people file for divorce. Divorce is a proceeding that can always be halted or stopped. It takes away the WS's security blanket- in addition to insuring your investment in your own future. Paying the expensive attorney fee's is one way of forcing yourself to move forward and not make costly backward mistakes.
> 
> P.S. You should've kicked her butt out of your master bedroom, or you should've slept in a separate room. Besides being sloppy seconds - what kind of picture do you think this paints for her. She already does not respect you as a man. and now you've happily accepted her into your bed- just as she knew you would.
> 
> Be strong- I know its hard, but when I was going thru my WS infidelity- I wish I had a network that screamed "180!!!!" to me.


Wow wow wow.

Powerful. I'm at a loss for words. I feel at peace. Thank you God.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JustTired

Oh, Shaka, I was truly hoping that your wife wasn't this deep into an affair. I was truly hoping that she would really stop contacting this other dude & be real about it.

It sounds to me that maybe your wife hasn't been happy for quite some time. Instead of being a woman about her $hit and actually talking to you, she went off the deep end by entertaining another man (which is most likely a full blown affair).

I am pissed off at the fact that your WW is willing to talk to her sister about what's going on but refuses to have an adult conversation with you about it. Owning up to your BS is hard to do, nothing like a little denial to get you through your day.:nono:

One thing is for sure, not coming home for 2 days is out of the question. A married a$$ man or woman needs to bring their a$$ home - point.blank.period. Don't let her sleep in your bed anymore. Put all of her clothes/shoes/jewely in plastic bags & take it out the bedroom. Put it in the basement or the spare bedroom, anywhere but your bedroom. This should be step 1 in your 180 journey. Do this NOW.

At this point your wife has disrespected you in the worst way. Take the bull by the horns with the 180! Be like Nike & Just Do It!


----------



## See_Listen_Love

shakazulu2420 said:


> Who said I haven't listened to advice here?


Ehmm,

You seem to whine a lot, and do not react properly to advise, you do not think clear.

Understandable in your misery, but you only get out if you man up. It is your choice.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Not whinning. Im pouring my heart out to you my friends. You have become my friends. Shoulders to lean on. This is exactly what I need now.

I started 180 yesterday. So please dont say im not listening.

After her sis told her twice to think about it and she said okay, i never said a word to her.

She left and came back at 8 pm. Sat in car and then posted at 8 pm on facebook " GUESS ILL TAKE A SHOWER AND SEE WHAT THE EVENING HOLDS" Mind you its a Sunday evening.

I ignored it.

I went to bed.

9 pm she was back sat in car for a short while. Cam ein took shower and got in bed.

I DIDNT SAY HI OR GOODNIGHT

2 am she wakes me saying if i put a lock on her cell phone.
I said why would I do that.
I go get juice and come back and shes online so i ask so you managed to get in.
She said yes. I said how did you unlock it? She says I just punched in some numbers. Then I said you must have set a lock on your phone and forgot. She says " I may have I dont know with all on my mind".

I said nothing after that.

Today she asks if i can drop off niece to practice on way to work. I say im running late. She gets mad.

I get to work and actually feeling at peace after prayers with my prayer group. So I post on facebook

"HAVING A GREAT DAY AT WORK, FEELING PEACEFUL. GOT GREAT OFFER TOO. THANK YOU JESUS."

An hr later work is slow an dim on facebook for a min and I see her post five min ago that says.

"WORK IS GOING GREAT. CANT WAIT FOR 5 PM TO SEE WHAT THE EVENING HOLDS".

Again ive ignored it. Wont text and call to ask anything. Ill get off work go home make dinner , eat shower sleep. When she comes home, ( If she goes anywhere- realistically its a monday night where are you going), ill be in bed. I wont say a word.


----------



## Yeswecan

shakazulu2420 said:


> "WORK IS GOING GREAT. CANT WAIT FOR 5 PM TO SEE WHAT THE EVENING HOLDS".


This is a baiting post on FB. It begs readers to start asking questions. Kind of like posting, "I should not have done that..." Quite possible she is sending some word to the OM. Is this blowhard on her FB page as a "friend"? Ignore it like you have. Conducting crap like this on FB is immature. 180 sir. 180.....


----------



## DoF

Not sure what OP is trying to accomplish here.

I also don't understand the whole 180 bit.

His wife is ****ty and is getting into disrespectful and inappropriate relations with other man.

She is still unwilling to share her account info etc? Right OP?

What else do you need to know other than she is doing something on the side.

What are you going to do about it? 

180 will do NOTHING. The question you have to ask yourself is "Do I even want to continue be married to this woman that is constantly hiding stuff and engaging in inappropriate behavior".

And no, god won't help you buddy....you need to help YOURSELF.


----------



## IcePrincess28

Shak- You're not ignoring her. You may not be responding to her posts- but You're stalking her Facebook. That's not ignoring- And in telling us your her response- my take on it is you're implying she is looking at your Facebook posts as well. 

How are you going to work on becoming a healthier person if you're following her every move on Facebook? Get rid of that thing. 

FB is one of the worst temptations out there for people trying to move forward.

Remember- 180 is about healing yourself. Not getting your wife back.


----------



## shakazulu2420

No he isnt on her facebook


----------



## DoF

shakazulu2420 said:


> No he isnt on her facebook


Forget about the guy, he is NOT your problem. Your WIFE is your problem....and her actions.

What are you doing on that end?


----------



## shakazulu2420

I cant make her do anything. 

I am now concentrating on healing. Its a process. Cause I check her facebook today, doesnt mean by wednesday I will be. Its a process not a race. Im getting there.

I cant do anything about her. If she wants to spend nights out there with girlfriends and boyfriends thats her problem.

Im going home. Cook for the kiddos, eat, shower sleep. 

She will get tired of coming home late. Shes trying to provoke a reaction from me. IT WONT WORK.

When she approaches me to talk( I wont approach her first), then and only then will we sit and talk.
And it will be talking not a dialogue.There will have to be a change in behavior. And some boundaries. Then we will seek counselling.

Someone said prayer doesnt work. In my belief it does. No offence, but as a Christian I can not fail to pray for this situation. This isnt Gods will and thus Ive committed it to God.
But I take advice here.


----------



## turnera

So what exactly have you done ABOUT THE AFFAIR?


----------



## ButtPunch

shakazulu2420 said:


> thanks.
> 
> No i was responding to a previous question above yours where someone asked where in the house she slept.
> So i said in bed with me.


no way in god's green earth would i have let her get in the bed with me. I would have let out a fury no man had ever seen if she tried.


----------



## ButtPunch

shakazulu2420 said:


> When she approaches me to talk( I wont approach her first), then and only then will we sit and talk.
> And it will be talking not a dialogue.There will have to be a change in behavior. And some boundaries. Then we will seek counselling.


The only thing you should say to her is "I want a divorce" and then walk away. You are in shock and need several weeks/months before establishing R boundaries. You must be willing to walk away from this marriage for any chance of saving it. She has also shown no remorse or interest in reconciling. She needs to be on her hands and knees begging you to talk to her. She's not there my man.


----------



## DoF

shakazulu2420 said:


> I cant make her do anything.
> 
> I am now concentrating on healing. Its a process.


You cannot begin healing until the person that caused the damage is no longer around.

After that person is GONE. COMPLETELY GONE. In your case, divorce and since you 2 have kids, it will have to be "communication limited to KIDS only". Nothing less, nothing more.

Many here (including me) will tell you that at that point. It is VERY important to block and completely stay away from that person. ANY Contact can often reset your healing.

So you see, each time you see your wife....your healing back to square one.



shakazulu2420 said:


> Cause I check her facebook today, doesnt mean by wednesday I will be. Its a process not a race. Im getting there.
> 
> I cant do anything about her. If she wants to spend nights out there with girlfriends and boyfriends thats her problem.
> 
> Im going home. Cook for the kiddos, eat, shower sleep.
> 
> She will get tired of coming home late. Shes trying to provoke a reaction from me. IT WONT WORK.
> 
> When she approaches me to talk( I wont approach her first), then and only then will we sit and talk.
> And it will be talking not a dialogue.There will have to be a change in behavior. And some boundaries. Then we will seek counselling.
> 
> Someone said prayer doesnt work. In my belief it does. No offence, but as a Christian I can not fail to pray for this situation. This isnt Gods will and thus Ive committed it to God.
> But I take advice here.


NO, you are completely wrong.

SO what you are saying is "I will let her do whatever she has been doing and eat the cake too and when she is ready to talk, we will talk"?

That will never happen. Cause you see, in her eyes, she is NOT doing anything wrong.

YOU need to tell her what and how she is doing wrong. You already did that in a letter, she didn't get it.

Now it's time to tell her with ACTION.

Go talk to a lawyer and bring all the evidence of her cheating with you.

You are completely blinding yourself with the God stuff too......and your posts reflect that. Look, one of the reason why I'm not a believer (amongst MANY) is that I continue to see people do absolutely crazy things in the name of religion.

You are doing that RIGHT NOW.

Your marriage is over if your wife is not willing to apologize and work on herself.

Accept it and file for divorce.


----------



## IcePrincess28

I don't expect you to be able to do an 180 in a hurry. After all- 180 is aka 180 degrees in the other direction. To do the opposite of how you've been reacting in your pain. Of course that takes time. 

In re-reading my posts. I see how I come off as rushing you. My intention is just to point out fallacies you've made. 

If praying is something that is effective at you channeling something that is greater than yourself- to accomplish what needs to be done- then go for it. I pull my strength from logic and science. It has it's pros and cons. You need to do what works best for you. 

At this point you need to get it out of your head that she comes home late to provoke you. Right now. She does not care about your feelings enough to care about inconveniencing herself to provoke you. 

Your obsessions (thoughts) and compulsions (actions) are all regarding her. But hers- have nothing to do with you. They're all about the OM. if she's home late. It's bc she's with him or socializing in her new life. If she's home on time or early- it's only bc everyone else is busy. 

I hope that you take this as a unique insight and not as a personal attack. 

during my split- I had friends who kept trying to comfort me telling me I'm wonderful and he will come back. This was not advice I wanted to hear. It was not helpful. 

I needed to hear about how I move forward with myself as the priority. Whether that meant saving a marriage or divorce. 

I needed someone to give me a swift kick in the butt when I was online checking his phone record after I had already all the evidence I needed- and all it was doing was being counterproductive to me going forward.


----------



## As'laDain

Shak, I am a pentecostal christian. I pray constantly about everything. 

Your the leader of your house right? Please tell me your not going to sit by and let her smear her soul all over the ground without fighting her stupidity. You have the power to make her affair incredibly uncomfortable. You have the power to make her face her poor actions everywhere she goes. She will hide it from everyone. 

You need to listen to weightlifter now. You need to get evidence, proof. And then you need to expose it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malaise

As'laDain said:


> Shak, I am a pentecostal christian. I pray constantly about everything.
> 
> Your the leader of your house right? Please tell me your not going to sit by and let her smear her soul all over the ground without fighting her stupidity. You have the power to make her affair incredibly uncomfortable. You have the power to make her face her poor actions everywhere she goes. She will hide it from everyone.
> 
> *You need to listen to weightlifter now. You need to get evidence, proof. And then you need to expose it.*_Posted via Mobile Device_


Do this yesterday.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

shakazulu2420 said:


> Troll. ??


 Why would you quote me? I didn't call you a troll in ANY of my posts.



> I wouldn't waste my time. I'm a grieving husband. I was away for a day as I prayed and did me. I'm entitled to that aren't I? Who said I haven't listened to advice here?


 LOL. Funny, you don't quote the guy who called you a troll, said you weren't listening and then defended his position. Instead, you quote the comment you have no idea of the meaning. I deleted a comment telling someone to leave you alone because it isn't my job to derail your thread with bickering, I am not a mod.


----------



## FormerSelf

I have really nothing to add...you are getting some primo advice here, Shaka.

Setting boundaries will be the toughest thing you ever did, but it is necessary. There is nothing wrong with submitting this all to prayer, but it is also very necessary to unwrap yourself from the emotional rollercoaster of your wife.

For a Christian perspective on this matter, I recommend reading: Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson. It helps you understand what goes in the mind of a cheater, how to separate yourself from their emotional highs and lows, how to set boundaries, how to give them the freedom to choose, AND when is it the appropriate time to call it quits. Get it.


----------



## shakazulu2420

I will get on amazon tonight when I get home and look for it,


----------



## shakazulu2420

Mean time im getting a way to get the info I need about whats going on. And then my friends, ill have 100% evidence


----------



## tom67

Is it printer guy or someone else?


----------



## Q tip

OP

Have you read up on MMSLP". If not, do it now. It should be required reading for all men. Married or single. Will help you work on the new you, in shape and balanced. And a chick magnet....

When you have the confidence to know you have many choices, she'll realize it too.

Read the book now. Understand the message. Execute.


----------



## shakazulu2420

I wil get it too thanks, and read it.
I appreciate yall. Love all of you.

Not sure if its printer guy. Could very well be someone else.


----------



## shakazulu2420

is this a book? I cant locate it


----------



## naiveonedave

mmslp = married mans sex life primer, book by Athol Kay.


----------



## anchorwatch

shakazulu2420 said:


> is this a book? I cant locate it


Here it is, and more. These are for you, not her! Use them!!!

Married Man Sex Life Primer, A Kay

The 180 List 

No More Mr Nice Guy, R Glover


----------



## Q tip

naiveonedave said:


> mmslp = married mans sex life primer, book by Athol Kay.


Amazon has it. Explains that everything you've been taught about women is wrong. Explains why and how. And what to do about it.

Puts you in charge of your life. Brings out the real man in you. No more P-whipped betas, and helps you balance alpha/beta and why it matters.

Starts out with you getting in shape. It bloody works. Spouse response to being in shape is right out of the book verbatim. Anyone who has done this will attest to the experience.

The book is a great read and eye opener for all men.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

I think it's important not to be too hard on yourself. This whole process really tests the self esteem. As others have already said at this point she will re-write history to demonize you and justify her actions. The reality is no action on your part could justify her looking outside the marriage. If she was unhappy and thinking straight she would wind up the marriage then go looking for an alternative not the other way around.

The best thing for you is to make yourself and your kids priority. Find outlets for the stress...I personally like exercise as this accomplishes multiple objectives, it burns stress, makes you healthier so you can withstand stress better and makes you feel better about yourself in general. Eat healthy. Get a healthy amount of sleep. Reach out to friends and family to build up those relationships. Spend quality time with your kids.

At the same time arm yourself with knowledge. Definately see a lawyer. Know what your rights and obligations are. Don't trust that "she will do the right thing" on any issue. Protect your interests where you can. See a mental health professional if you're having trouble coping. 

You will get through this and be a better person. It's hard to see that right now when you're in the thick of it but it's true.

My biggest regret from when I went through it was that I was too passive and accepted too much crap. People here trying to prevent you from making the mistakes I made...although sometimes maybe a little harshly.

Best of luck...take care.


----------



## Q tip

anchorwatch said:


> Here it is, and more. These are for you, not her! Use them!!!
> 
> Married Man Sex Life Primer, A Kay
> 
> The 180 List
> 
> No More Mr Nice Guy, R Glover


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

QFt


----------



## shakazulu2420

Before yall jump on me, hear me out. IM DOING 180

And also told her how its going to be.

I will stay in house
I will provide for the kids
I will be cordial. We are not lovers anymore. I can care less what she does she has the freedom.
I will still do my part. Cook clean whatever help. Like a roomate.
Common theme is kids.
Im establishing college funds for the kids. Not her.
Shes free to go do what she wants.

And I told myself this

I am going to start going to the gym and working out again and get in great shape again like two yrs ago.
I will start volunteering at the play theater in town where lots of singles are too and make new friends and help out as a stage hand etc.
I will get a new hair cut
I will trim beard differently
I will get a new wardrobe with new nice looking clothes.

In the mean time she can do what she wants.

In other words what she does wont bother me at all from now on.

I will become a better person I know. Ill look better and attract others like a magnet.
She will date and get hurt. Printer man can offer job and she can be gone and realize one day that the peanuts hes paying her isnt worth it.
Or if its someone else, she will date them and see them for what they are as all men shes dated before have cheated on her. ALL . Im the exception.


----------



## Q tip

Goal, heavy weights 4 times a week. 

Read MMSLP several times. Lots of info to absorb with one read.

180. 

Keep your faith and confidence in you.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Basically told her I wont beg thats unnatractive.
I wont plead
I wont reason.


You know if its an affair guess what guys, it will end. Excitement wont last more than 3 months.


----------



## DoF

SO to sum it up.

Your wife goes off and cheats.

You reward her with a free pass to do whatever she wants.

I still FAIL to see ANY kind of consequence and she is laughing at you as well. 

Heck, she might even be thinking "he doesn't care about me at all if he doesn't mind me doing this stuff behind her back" to justify her actions even more.

Mark my words: you are adding fuel to the fire OP.



shakazulu2420 said:


> Basically told her I wont beg thats unnatractive.
> I wont plead
> I wont reason.
> 
> 
> You know if its an affair guess what guys, it will end. Excitement wont last more than 3 months.


Then she will come back crawling back to you and you will be there waiting.

Pretty pathetic if you ask me.


----------



## shakazulu2420

No wrong.
She wont come back crawling to me as i wait there pathetically. This is a new me. IM BEING POSITIVE AND THINKING POSITIVE FROM NOW ON.

Me letting her do her does the following

1. Give the freedom to be stupid
2. Learn that i was right that she will get hurt
3. It will be fun for a while. It cant last. The true colors of each person come out. Boredom sets in. Now there isnt a thrill.
4. Eyes open and she notices i changed and im doing me.

If she wants to come back i wont say yes baby great.

It will be me now at my power. Ball in my court. She will chase.
When i feel its genuine there are things we have to do.

1. Christian marital counselling
2. Marriage re treat seminars frequently
3. Changes in behavior

See, now im in control. Not her.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Why would you quote me? I didn't call you a troll in ANY of my posts.
> 
> LOL. Funny, you don't quote the guy who called you a troll, said you weren't listening and then defended his position. Instead, you quote the comment you have no idea of the meaning. I deleted a comment telling someone to leave you alone because it isn't my job to derail your thread with bickering, I am not a mod.


He often quotes the prior post in order to reply to the thread, even if the prior post is himself. He _was_ replying to me.

I understand I have set off the nerves of a few people in here for saying that (possibly even the OP). I didnt mean to offend anyone- I was just sharing my thoughts.

I see now that him being a troll was not the case. I used the word troll not as a pejorative term but rather as the term that everyone might recognize for an issue weve had here more than a few times lately.

I will sign off this thread (it has nothing to do with you OP). shakazulu2420, I wish you luck- be strong not weak- its the only thing thats going to work. Be ready for a future without her as it seems likely.


----------



## brendanoco

What would it take for you to divorce your wife?


----------



## shakazulu2420

ooops phill sorry didnt mean to say you said I was a troll. Im on the cell and it acts up. I was just replying.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Seems like you have everything worked out.

Good luck Shak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

shakazulu2420 said:


> *No wrong.*
> She wont come back crawling to me as i wait there pathetically. This is a new me. IM BEING POSITIVE AND THINKING POSITIVE FROM NOW ON.
> 
> Me letting her do her does the following
> 
> 1. Give the freedom to be stupid
> 2. Learn that i was right that she will get hurt
> 3. It will be fun for a while. It cant last. The true colors of each person come out. Boredom sets in. Now there isnt a thrill.
> 4. Eyes open and she notices i changed and im doing me.
> 
> If she wants to come back i wont say yes baby great.
> 
> It will be me now at my power. Ball in my court. She will chase.
> When i feel its genuine there are things we have to do.
> 
> 1. Christian marital counselling
> 2. Marriage re treat seminars frequently
> 3. Changes in behavior
> 
> See, now im in control. Not her.


No, _you're_ wrong. This is the most pathetic plan I have ever seen. You, who have no prior experience in this subject and from what I can tell you haven't even read anything about it yet are making a plan that no man with any tiny smidgen of self respect would even consider.

Look up two words. Look up "cuckold" and "wittol". If you implement this **** pile of a plan you should have your picture in the dictionary next to the definition of these words.

This plan is tailor made to make her respect you less. It doesn't matter how you act around her, if you are knowingly allowing her to cheat on your marriage you are lowering yourself in her eyes. Women do not love men they do not respect.

What freaking power is in your hands? The power to sit around waiting for her to finish whoring around and realize that the weakling she's been using as a babysitter is the right man for her? Really? You think she'll regain her love for you by you showing her what a wimp you are?

Matthew 7:6 is a perfect description of what we've been doing by trying to advise you.


----------



## shakazulu2420

What would it take? 

Im prepairing myself for it. Guys please remember as much as im listening to everyone, this is a process. Its fresh. Step by step.
Im moving accounts into my name. Thats step one.

I have to consider before i rush like a sprinting deer for divorce, the kids. If this can be solved amicably for their sake( ITS NOT ABOUT ME) its them, then it will be best. I know several people who co live and raise kids. My aunt and uncle did it.
I have never heard of a beautiful divorce that didnt affect kids. Im a child of divorced parents and it hurt like hell.

So before i rush into divorce, I have a million things and stuff to weigh. No decision in my mind is best when done in a hurry.

This isnt as easy as what will we eat tonight. This is the kids. This is joint property. Families on both sides. CHILDREN. 

So as ready as im getting by calling up an attorney, I havent told him, hey go ahead lets file this tomorrow. He is an attorney friend. His advice too as a friend, is think a while longer on best approach. He knows best about the dirty murk of divorce courts. Not for the grown ups. ITS ALWAYS KIDS who suffer. Always.
If i can spare my children that, I will. Its not about just me. Its them.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Be careful betting the farm on her new relationship crashing and burning. It may not happen. My ex is still with the guy she left me for over a decade later.

You're better off making a plan to go it alone ensuring you're taking care of the kids.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Shes had many relationships before and all ended with them cheating.

This printer in her own words

" Hhas been accused by other men of the same thing, and its cause of his nature , he is nice..."


See hes already in her mind. He is good im the demon


----------



## PBear

So this guy is married? Have you talked to his wife and compared notes?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

35. Single. Own business. Nerdish. Unkept scruffy beard. Girlish mannerisms. Lives with mother.


----------



## tom67

PBear said:


> So this guy is married? Have you talked to his wife and compared notes?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Act stupid and gather intel and make the om life a living hell.


----------



## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> I have to consider before i rush like a sprinting deer for divorce, the kids.


shak, you're apparently not reading everything we're posting. I think you're just seeing the few of us who cry divorce and ignoring all else out of a kneejerk reaction. 

We are NOT telling you to DIVORCE.

We are telling you that TO GET HER BACK, you should follow our EXPERIENCED advice, which includes getting evidence FAST, exposing her cheating to her FAMILY and her important people (best friend, pastor, etc.) - even faster, and THEN doing the 180.

None of this is going to work unless you expose. You already have enough evidence to call her parents up and say 'your daughter has been hanging out with another man and staying out for days at a time.'

Why do you have to expose, to get her back? Because women aren't like men. They don't just go out and have a fling and then run home. They develop emotional attachments to these men and the longer you let them have at it, the more she's in love with HIM and the more she hates YOU. There IS no 'I'll wait her out.' It doesn't work.

Exposure works. You should have told her parents and her siblings by now. Will she be mad at you? Of course. That's the point. You WANT her to get mad that she is seen in a bad light by the people she cares about because that's the only way she'll rethink what she's doing and consider stopping it. Your marriage can survive her anger; it can't survive another man.

You need to man up and call her family.


----------



## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> 35. Single. Own business. Nerdish. Unkept scruffy beard. Girlish mannerisms. Lives with mother.


Have you gone to talk to his mother? Why not?


----------



## tom67

turnera said:


> shak, you're apparently not reading everything we're posting. I think you're just seeing the few of us who cry divorce and ignoring all else out of a kneejerk reaction.
> 
> We are NOT telling you to DIVORCE.
> 
> We are telling you that TO GET HER BACK, you should follow our EXPERIENCED advice, which includes getting evidence FAST, exposing her cheating to her FAMILY and her important people (best friend, pastor, etc.) - even faster, and THEN doing the 180.
> 
> None of this is going to work unless you expose. You already have enough evidence to call her parents up and say 'your daughter has been hanging out with another man and staying out for days at a time.'
> 
> Why do you have to expose, to get her back? Because women aren't like men. They don't just go out and have a fling and then run home. They develop emotional attachments to these men and the longer you let them have at it, the more she's in love with HIM and the more she hates YOU. There IS no 'I'll wait her out.' It doesn't work.
> 
> Exposure works. You should have told her parents and her siblings by now. Will she be mad at you? Of course. That's the point. You WANT her to get mad that she is seen in a bad light by the people she cares about because that's the only way she'll rethink what she's doing and consider stopping it. Your marriage can survive her anger; it can't survive another man.
> 
> You need to man up and call her family.


This^^^
:iagree::iagree:


----------



## MaritimeGuy

shakazulu2420 said:


> 35. Single. Own business. Nerdish. Unkept scruffy beard. Girlish mannerisms. Lives with mother.


Could be a wolf in sheep's clothing...scoring with lots of women who think he's harmless. 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter about him. He didn't stand before god, family and friends and make a comitment of fidelity to you. Your wife did.


----------



## shakazulu2420

I have always dated white women. My wife has always dated black men. Im black. She has never dated white man.

Not putting this a racial thing no.

Just pointing out so yall get a clearer picture. When she said she wasnt attractred to him and ive seen him believe me. So Im not naive, dont get me wrong, but i believe thus far this is an EA.
And this fool, yes im calling him that now, has penatrated her mind and shes thrilled with newness.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Maritime you are right about that sir


----------



## tom67

Let her friends and family know so they can help you have her see the light so to speak.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain at this point.


----------



## shakazulu2420

Told her mom i suspect its that dude. Ofcourse she tells mom its not. She has been unhappy for a long time.
She doesnt listen to her moms advice. At all.


----------



## PBear

shakazulu2420 said:


> 35. Single. Own business. Nerdish. Unkept scruffy beard. Girlish mannerisms. Lives with mother.


Don't know why I thought he was married... It's right in your title. 

Anyway... Your wife's little buddy is in a very vulnerable position, what with trying to start up a new business. If you're SURE something nefarious is up, he would be very susceptible to a social media blitz, letting people know what his views on the sanctity of marriage vows. 

In any case, your first step has to be to break up the affair. On both sides, preferably.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch

shakazulu2420 said:


> See, now im in control. Not her.


Not hardly.

She gets a free pass to f her affair partner while you get to fix dinner for the kids and go to the gym. This is what is called an open marriage. She gets everything she wants with zero consequences. She even gets the security of knowing you are going to wait for her.


----------



## ButtPunch

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Seems like you have everything worked out.
> 
> Good luck Shak.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL :rofl:


----------



## tom67

Print up divorce papers from your state and leave them where she can see.


----------



## IcePrincess28

1) Hide your self help reading material from her. If possible, order online versions (kindle) - so she can not find them. You can read them on your phone or computer. If she finds it- it gives her a direct plan of counter attack. 



shakazulu2420 said:


> Before yall jump on me, hear me out. IM DOING 180
> 
> *And also told her how its going to be.*
> 
> *I will stay in house* < - Why wouldn't you? She's the WS.
> *I will provide for the kids* <- This is perfect for her. More $$ for her to party with
> *I will be cordial. We are not lovers anymore. I can care less what she does she has the freedom.* < - you had to tell her all this?? In doing so, it lets her know you care. you care ALOT.
> *I will still do my part. Cook clean whatever help. Like a roomate.* <- this is code for- I will be your betty homemaker, while you go out and party. When you get home, the house will be clean, the kids tended to. ROOMMATE? So I guess she is staying in the house.
> Common theme is kids.
> *Im establishing college funds for the kids. Not her.* <- Again, wonderful for her.
> *Shes free to go do what she wants.* <- she didn't need you telling her she could, to already be doing this
> 
> And I told myself this
> 
> *I am going to start going to the gym and working out again and get in great shape again like two yrs ago.
> I will start volunteering at the play theater in town where lots of singles are too and make new friends and help out as a stage hand etc.
> I will get a new hair cut
> I will trim beard differently
> I will get a new wardrobe with new nice looking clothes.*
> 
> ^ All that is wonderful- but remember- you're doing this for yourself, not for her. Do you have the will power to fight her off- if she tries to sleep with you- yet she has not done the work in the marriage- to deserve it? Are you ready to pass the test when she sees if she still has you in her control?
> 
> In the mean time she can do what she wants.
> 
> *In other words what she does wont bother me at all from now on.* <- I'm REALLY hoping you're saying- you're going to "act" as though this does not bother you at all- bc really- right now- how could it not? You're only days into all this hurt. You can put on a brave face, fake it until you make it.
> 
> I will become a better person I know. Ill look better and attract others like a magnet.
> *She will date and get hurt.* Printer man can offer job and she can be gone and realize one day that the peanuts hes paying her isnt worth it.
> Or if its someone else, she will date them and see them for what they are as *all men shes dated before have cheated on her. ALL . Im the exception.*
> 
> Ok.... see- Now i as I was reading your plans for improving yourself- and I had this hunch you're doing it for HER, not YOURSELF- and this here proves it. You're trying to count on her getting hurt- her coming back to you- her learning a lesson that you're the best she will ever get. You want to improve yourself, so she can see what all she's missing out on (GOOD) - but then, I really doubt you will push her off of you, when she decides she wants you. And when she gets you- its off she goes to the OM- bc you failed the test.
> 
> Do all this FOR YOURSELF. NOT FOR HER.





shakazulu2420 said:


> Basically *told her I wont beg thats unnatractive.
> I wont plead
> I wont reason.
> *
> 
> ^^ Why are you telling her all this? You're talking too much. #1 rule of 180. (with all due respect Shak) SHUT THE HECK UP!!! You're talking TOOOOO much.
> 
> *You know if its an affair guess what guys, it will end. Excitement wont last more than 3 months.* <- Again, you're doing this 180 for her. You're COUNTING on this only lasting until the excitement ends. Quite frankly, even if you were correct- she's not going to want to come back to you. She has a nice set up at home (you) - she could easily have one affair after another.
> 
> You mentioned things about the printer guy not being her type. How about- what does she see in him, that she does not see in you? You're assuming you're the better pick here. She married you, bc you're dependable, loyal, and will provide. (refer to comments about your supporting the kids, taking care of the house and helping however possible).
> 
> I could easily see this turn into a bunch of high school drama. I could see you starting to date women just to spite her. I could see a lot of unnecessary backwards behavior happen here. But thats just my opinion.
> 
> How old are your children? As we all know- kids are VERY perceptive little humans. They have to be. Their brains are super activity- they're always learning from their environments- and absorbing it like a sponge.
> 
> If mom is not home much- and you have conjecture at home- wherever it may be coming from- that she's out socializing- and dad is home tending to things. And dad is hovering over mom whenever she is home. They're going to pick up on that. Nature vs. nurture. They pick up alot from watching mom and dad. All common sense what I said- so i'm not trying to insult your parenting- but just a gentle reminder.
> 
> You said- to think of your kids. So i say- please- think of your kids. What kind of message are you sending them?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

shakazulu2420 said:


> What would it take?
> 
> Im prepairing myself for it. Guys please remember as much as im listening to everyone, this is a process. Its fresh. Step by step.
> Im moving accounts into my name. Thats step one.
> 
> I have to consider before i rush like a sprinting deer for divorce, the kids. If this can be solved amicably for their sake( ITS NOT ABOUT ME) its them, then it will be best. I know several people who co live and raise kids. My aunt and uncle did it.
> I have never heard of a beautiful divorce that didnt affect kids. Im a child of divorced parents and it hurt like hell.
> 
> So before i rush into divorce, I have a million things and stuff to weigh. No decision in my mind is best when done in a hurry.
> 
> This isnt as easy as what will we eat tonight. This is the kids. This is joint property. Families on both sides. CHILDREN.
> 
> So as ready as im getting by calling up an attorney, I havent told him, hey go ahead lets file this tomorrow. He is an attorney friend. His advice too as a friend, is think a while longer on best approach. He knows best about the dirty murk of divorce courts. Not for the grown ups. ITS ALWAYS KIDS who suffer. Always.
> If i can spare my children that, I will. Its not about just me. Its them.


You do know almost every upset poster, especially men, serve up "the kids" on a silver platter. No one is telling you to rush, but letting her have her way was is weak. Yes, I called you weak again. You are not in control.

Basically, your plan is to "shut up and take it." You can't control her, but you can control the situation. 

You want to date? Not in my house.
You want to date? Not with my car.
You want to date? Not with my marriage.
You want to date? Not with my money.

Yes, I made everything shared yours. This is the way you think until she acts right. The 180 is correct, but the small list above is not part of the 180. You protect yourself and the kids, which may include the kids finding out everything.

I have NEVER heard of a dysfunctional family not affecting kids.


----------



## DoF

shakazulu2420 said:


> I have always dated white women. My wife has always dated black men. Im black. She has never dated white man.
> 
> Not putting this a racial thing no.
> 
> Just pointing out so yall get a clearer picture. When she said she wasnt attractred to him and ive seen him believe me. So Im not naive, dont get me wrong, but i believe thus far this is an EA.
> And this fool, yes im calling him that now, has penatrated her mind and shes thrilled with newness.


Color matters NONE

What are the consequences for her actions?


----------



## DoF

shakazulu2420 said:


> No wrong.
> She wont come back crawling to me as i wait there pathetically. This is a new me. IM BEING POSITIVE AND THINKING POSITIVE FROM NOW ON.
> 
> Me letting her do her does the following
> 
> 1. Give the freedom to be stupid
> 2. Learn that i was right that she will get hurt
> 3. It will be fun for a while. It cant last. The true colors of each person come out. Boredom sets in. Now there isnt a thrill.
> 4. Eyes open and she notices i changed and im doing me.
> 
> If she wants to come back i wont say yes baby great.
> 
> It will be me now at my power. Ball in my court. She will chase.
> When i feel its genuine there are things we have to do.
> 
> 1. Christian marital counselling
> 2. Marriage re treat seminars frequently
> 3. Changes in behavior
> 
> See, now im in control. Not her.


Wrong, you see. Marriage is not about control. And you won't like yourself or her when "you are in control".

And damage still has been and will be done even more so now that you opened up doors to her to do whatever.

Grow a pair of balls and tell her this marriage is over. You are simply prolonging things by doing what you said.


----------



## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> Told her mom i suspect its that dude. Ofcourse she tells mom its not. She has been unhappy for a long time.
> She doesnt listen to her moms advice. At all.


It doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter what her mom says or whether she even gets along with her mom.

What matters is that SHE KNOWS that her MOM knows. And if you do this right, her siblings will know, her dad will know, her best friends will know, and her pastor will know (if you go to church). Again, what matters is that she KNOWS that they know - it's HER guilt that might make her quit.

And of course she denies it and of course she rewrote history to say it's all because you have been a bad husband. What else is new? All cheaters do it.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

DoF said:


> 180 will do NOTHING. The question you have to ask yourself is "Do I even want to continue be married to this woman that is constantly hiding stuff and engaging in inappropriate behavior".
> 
> And no, god won't help you buddy....you need to help YOURSELF.


The 180 is helping him to get on his feet and stand firm. Learn to direct and live his own life, unconnected to her actions and opinions. Which is a great start.

These day's the working of placebo's is quite coming to my attention, there is a positive influence for the people who get placebo's in all kinds (medical, psychological).

So if you believe God wil help you, your life will be better, even if God should not exits. Because of the placebo effect!


----------



## shakazulu2420

Last night I got from work. She was out with daughter visiting a cousin who just gave birth. She sent me a text

"dear do we have light bulbs?" I replied no. Cause we needed one for kitchen. Note the word dear.

Then as she n our daughter rolled in, I was headed out the door with son who asked me to drop him off at her moms. His grandma. For the night. He wanted to spend the night there.

Daughter asked where we were going. I told her your brother wants to sleep at your grandmas tonight. And have her drop him off to school in the am. " he is 9.

I went in showered when I returned and she was in car still listening to music and talking to someone.

After shower I used back door and went out on a stroll talking to a friend on phone.

I get a text from her saying

Her"wanna go downtown"
Me"no what's there?"
Her"stop acting you know what I mean?"

Then she adds
"I'm done with our relationship but I need a sexual release. But I know you are still hoping for this relationship and I don't want to hurt you so I understand if you don't want to"

I then text wait as I was on phone and needed full concentration on my call.
Ten min she asks

"where are you?"
Me"Talking on phone and taking a walk"?
Her" why couldn't you talk in the house or yard?"
Me"hold on"
Her"What did you say you wanted to show me the other day?"
Her"well I'm headed to bed"

Five min later
"dog whining".
"anyway just letting you know if I hit the bed I wont wake up".

I went to bed and she said goodnight DEAR.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## murphy5

Is it too late to ask the OM for free tee shirts?


----------



## shakazulu2420

murphy5 said:


> Is it too late to ask the OM for free tee shirts?


Lol I'm sleepy just woke up. Its 4am. I didn't understand question
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## shakazulu2420

shakazulu2420 said:


> Lol I'm sleepy just woke up. Its 4am. I didn't understand question
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She said to daughter before bed "I'm so exhausted im so sleepy. My body is drained.".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## azteca1986

shakazulu2420 said:


> I went in showered when I returned and she was in car still listening to music and* talking to someone.*


She was talking to her boyfriend. And when that got her all hot and bothered...



> Then she adds
> "I'm done with our relationship but I need a sexual release. But I know you are still hoping for this relationship and I don't want to hurt you so I understand if you don't want to"


She approached you, as her boyfriend wasn't around. She'd be thinking of him though, rest assured.

I really don't know how you can remain so calm, shaka. I would lose my sh!t if my wife even _dared to think _she could have boyfriend whilst still being married to me. We're both on the same page on that one. The same applies to me if I tried to bringing girlfriends into our marriage. Apparently we both have a very low tolerance to being back-stabbed by our spouse.


----------



## shakazulu2420

azteca1986 said:


> She was talking to her boyfriend. And when that got her all hot and bothered...
> 
> She approached you, as her boyfriend wasn't around. She'd be thinking of him though, rest assured.
> 
> I really don't know how you can remain so calm, shaka. I would lose my sh!t if my wife even _dared to think _she could have boyfriend whilst still being married to me. We're both on the same page on that one. The same applies to me if I tried to bringing girlfriends into our marriage. Apparently we both have a very low tolerance to being back-stabbed by our spouse.


Interesting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## murphy5

shakazulu2420 said:


> She said to daughter before bed "I'm so exhausted im so sleepy. My body is drained.".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


a bit of a joke. Not much to rescue from your situation, so maybe you can barter for free tee shirts from their "business"?


----------



## azteca1986

shakazulu2420 said:


> Interesting


What do you find interesting, Shaka?


----------



## DoF

PBear said:


> In any case, your first step has to be to break up the affair. On both sides, preferably.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, I think it should be HER first step. And it's something I wouldn't imply or ask her, I would EXPECT her to do it on her own.

Would give her exactly 1 day to do it after the "letter" or confronting her about it.


----------



## DoF

See_Listen_Love said:


> The 180 is helping him to get on his feet and stand firm. Learn to direct and live his own life, unconnected to her actions and opinions. Which is a great start.
> 
> These day's the working of placebo's is quite coming to my attention, there is a positive influence for the people who get placebo's in all kinds (medical, psychological).
> 
> So if you believe God wil help you, your life will be better, even if God should not exits. Because of the placebo effect!


Look, I like Placebo.....band. And have some believe in Placebo effect as well.

For this situation though? His wife clearly has 0 respect for him and doesn't even care enough about their marriage to break up the affair.

It's done


----------



## DoF

shakazulu2420 said:


> "I'm done with our relationship .......


And there you have it OP.

What else do you need to know? 

She didn't have to tell you above either. She told you above WITH HER ACTIONS when you confronted her and she decided to continue to participate.

By that action she ended the affair.

While you still have hopes......etc

Come on now, clear as a day.


----------



## turnera

azteca1986 said:


> She approached you, as her boyfriend wasn't around. She'd be thinking of him though, rest assured.


Yeah, he was home with mommy.

Who you SHOULD have gone to see yesterday. To tell her what her SON was doing.

But you didn't, did you?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

azteca1986 said:


> What do you find interesting, Shaka?


Contrary to whatSLL posted, he isn't doing the 180. He's doing the 360. You start off pretending to do the 180, when you get your first tidbit, which in this case is the affectionate term "Dear," you engage in conversation and see it as hope. SO, you are right back where you started.

You gave him something to think about.


----------



## IcePrincess28

Everything OP is doing right now- isn't a real 180. He's doing everything he can think of- to spite the WW. 

Walking off to talk on the phone? And responding to her text on why he did not stay in the yard. And WW wanting to get down. But also making sure to announce her rejection of their marriage in all of this. 

This has become a game. OP- I know you're hurt. But you're not capable of playing this game right now. It will take you completely off course. You care too much about her pursuing you, about being spiteful, and winning. 

You lost at the moment she became the WS. The only way to win this right now. Is to become a healthy forward moving you.

Flaunting some secret phone call that you walked away from the house on- while still responding to her texts- is just playing with fire. 

You're eager to show that she was begging you for sex and you rejected her. You care too much about "winning"- and you're missing the point in all of this. 

You refuse to do substantial things that can cause a rift and anger her. Such as regarding the OM. You also seek to engage with her to see what her reaction would be 

1) in your away from the house phone call

2) when you indirectly rejected her sexually by taking too long on the phone rather than upset her by saying no.


----------



## azteca1986

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Contrary to whatSLL posted, he isn't doing the 180. He's doing the 360. You start off pretending to do the 180, when you get your first tidbit, which in this case is the affectionate term "Dear," you engage in conversation and see it as hope. SO, you are right back where you started.


I do agree philly. To be effective the 180 is done for yourself and yourself alone. When you do it to get a reaction from the other party, your life is still revolving around them. The 360 as you say.



> You gave him something to think about.


I'm curious if we're still seeing analysis paralysis (which fairly common here). "If I actually see her fvcking the dude, then I'll be sure she's cheating... THEN I'LL ACT!"

Or, if he came to realise there's other ways of dealing with the sh!tty situation he's been put in.

I hope the one or two posts he might consider are berating him, don't scare him off. We're all trying our best to get through and help him, in our own ways. I hope Shaka understands that.


----------



## turnera

IcePrincess28 said:


> You're eager to show that she was begging you for sex and you rejected her. You care too much about "winning"- and you're missing the point in all of this.
> 
> You refuse to do substantial things that can cause a rift and anger her. Such as regarding the OM. You also seek to engage with her to see what her reaction would be
> 
> 1) in your away from the house phone call
> 
> 2) when you indirectly rejected her sexually by taking too long on the phone rather than upset her by saying no.


Worth repeating. And so you know, the 1 and 2 items above are what a Nice Guy does, as opposed to an alpha male. What that means is that a Nice Guy tries to be so nice to his wife that she'll do what he wants. But women don't respect Nice Guys. Which is basically a _beta _(nice, or weak) male. 

An _alpha _male (the kind who women desire) makes strong decisions based on what he knows he deserves, not what he thinks will get the woman to do what he wants. He's willing to anger her. You are not willing to anger your wife; you're afraid to. You skirt around the edges of it but always have a safe way out of getting yelled at (what? I told you I was taking a walk...).


----------



## Malaise

turnera said:


> Worth repeating. And so you know, the 1 and 2 items above are what a Nice Guy does, as opposed to an alpha male. What that means is that a Nice Guy tries to be so nice to his wife that she'll do what he wants. But women don't respect Nice Guys. Which is basically a _beta _(nice, or weak) male.
> 
> An _alpha _male (the kind who women desire) makes strong decisions based on what he knows he deserves, not what he thinks will get the woman to do what he wants. He's willing to anger her. You are not willing to anger your wife; you're afraid to. You skirt around the edges of it but always have a safe way out of getting yelled at (what? I told you I was taking a walk...).


As a recovering Nice Guy I can tell you she's dead on.


----------



## DoF

turnera said:


> Worth repeating. And so you know, the 1 and 2 items above are what a Nice Guy does, as opposed to an alpha male. What that means is that a Nice Guy tries to be so nice to his wife that she'll do what he wants. But women don't respect Nice Guys. Which is basically a _beta _(nice, or weak) male.


Wrong wrong wrong.

GIRLS don't respect Nice Guys, women do. And a good woman will appreciate a nice guy!



turnera said:


> An _alpha _male (the kind who women desire) makes strong decisions based on what he knows he deserves, not what he thinks will get the woman to do what he wants. He's willing to anger her. You are not willing to anger your wife; you're afraid to. You skirt around the edges of it but always have a safe way out of getting yelled at (what? I told you I was taking a walk...).


Your entire posts confirms exactly why I don't believe in "no more Mr. Nice guy " or the 180 crap.

It's pretty simple really. 

ANYONE that uses your "niceness" against you is most likely a person you DO NOT want to be around in the first place. I use my niceness as a "people **** filter". And it has worked wonders. I have completely gotten rid of all of the **** that has infiltrated my life.

And to tell someone to change and "not be so nice" etc is just completely absurd IMO. Why in the world would I want to change myself and lower my standards to the person that's ****ty? 

No thanks

****ty person is a ****ty person. If it walks and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

OP, let her actions speak for themselves. Accept and recognize the person RIGHT in front of you for WHO THEY ARE. DO NOT change or become an ahole or do "180". That's not YOU, it's not who you are.

Sorry, but any person that is willing to use your niceness against you (especially a loved one) is probably the worst of the worst out there. 

Over the years I've build VERY little tolerance for such people. Don't get me wrong, I know no body is perfect so I give people chances.
Everyone deserves a second chance, but not third. Your letter was 2nd chance, she wiped her ass with it and continued on her actions.

As I have been telling you all along. It's time to separate yourself from this person.

It's time to gather evidence and go see a lawyer.


----------



## tom67

spidey sense on this one


----------



## ButtPunch

DoF

The term "Nice Guy" is just a reference for a man with no backbone. A weak constitution. Neither women nor girls like this type man excluding narcissists. They love them.


----------



## azteca1986

turnera said:


> Worth repeating. And so you know, the 1 and 2 items above are what a Nice Guy does, as opposed to an alpha male. What that means is that a Nice Guy tries to be so nice to his wife that she'll do what he wants. But women don't respect Nice Guys. Which is basically a _beta _(nice, or weak) male.
> 
> An _alpha _male (the kind who women desire) makes strong decisions based on what he knows he deserves, not what he thinks will get the woman to do what he wants. He's willing to anger her. You are not willing to anger your wife; you're afraid to. You skirt around the edges of it but always have a safe way out of getting yelled at (what? I told you I was taking a walk...).


Though I do agree with your overall message, I think we're in danger of becoming too hung up on the alpha/beta dynamic on TAM. Your tone might only serve to beat a freshly BH down further.

Knowleagable though you may be on the subject, you've never actually _been_ an alpha male now, have you tunera?


----------



## DoF

ButtPunch said:


> DoF
> 
> The term "Nice Guy" is just a reference for a man with no backbone. A weak constitution. Neither women nor girls like this type man excluding narcissists. They love them.


I understand.

But it's THEIR choice to marry such a man and commit for LIFE.

And I also understand that it's a male issue. BUT I also understand that our society FORCES man to he no backbone.

Just take a look at just about EVERYTHING around you. Man are constantly made into complete idiots. Have you watched Disney channel lately? or any main stream program? 

You ever noticed how dads/males are usually the biggest idiots?

Also, advice I have given OP enables him to HAVE a backbone. Or at least start building one up.


----------



## DoF

azteca1986 said:


> Knowleagable though you may be on the subject, you've never actually _been_ an alpha male now, have you tunera?


This Alpha male crap has to stop.

First off, why would anyone want to be an "alpha" man. 

I know I wouldn't. But at the same time I'm low key type of a guy, I don't like too much attention. And attention base don my looks and social status is quite opposite of attention I desire/want.

:scratchhead:


----------



## turnera

DoF said:


> Wrong wrong wrong.
> 
> GIRLS don't respect Nice Guys, women do. And a good woman will appreciate a nice guy!
> 
> Your entire posts confirms exactly why I don't believe in "no more Mr. Nice guy " or the 180 crap.


Well, I'm a woman, and I disagree. I get what you're saying, that a healthy, responsible woman WANTS a man to be nice. And I'm giving you both the woman's perspective and the psychological perspective: women have to have strong men. What you really mean, I'm thinking, is that healthy women don't want bad boys, but rather guys who have morals and integrity and treat women fairly. Of course.

Women want men to be nice, yes, but NOT at the expense of the man's dignity. That is a HUGE turnoff, and if a man keeps making decisions that go against what he wants, just to please the woman, she will leave him. She'll get sick and tired of wearing the pants in the family and will leave, cheat, or just plain stay MAD all the time.


----------



## DoF

turnera said:


> Well, I'm a woman, and I disagree. I get what you're saying, that a healthy, responsible woman WANTS a man to be nice. And I'm giving you both the woman's perspective and the psychological perspective: women have to have strong men. What you really mean, I'm thinking, is that healthy women don't want bad boys, but rather guys who have morals and integrity and treat women fairly. Of course.
> 
> Women want men to be nice, yes, but NOT at the expense of the man's dignity. That is a HUGE turnoff, and if a man keeps making decisions that go against what he wants, just to please the woman, she will leave him. She'll get sick and tired of wearing the pants in the family and will leave, cheat, or just plain stay MAD all the time.


I understand that and agree completely.

So tell me, why is it that so many women marry these "push over" type of guys to begin with? 

I already know........but still, the fact remains. Many women do get involved into it.

Red flags should be going off no?


----------



## ButtPunch

DoF said:


> I understand.
> 
> But it's THEIR choice to marry such a man and commit for LIFE.
> 
> And I also understand that it's a male issue. BUT I also understand that our society FORCES man to he no backbone.
> 
> Just take a look at just about EVERYTHING around you. Man are constantly made into complete idiots. Have you watched Disney channel lately? or any main stream program?
> 
> You ever noticed how dads/males are usually the biggest idiots?
> 
> Also, advice I have given OP enables him to HAVE a backbone. Or at least start building one up.



You are correct. I am a white male from the South. I watch TV. There is no bigger idiot than me and it is politically correct to make fun of me.


----------



## turnera

azteca1986 said:


> Knowledgeable though you may be on the subject, you've never actually _been_ an alpha male now, have you turnera?


No. Aside from all the reading I've done (textbooks as well as mass media books), I've been on the RECEIVING end of alpha males as well as beta males. The beta males make women mad. They frustrate them. All women want is to know they can depend on the man. To do what it takes, to say no when it's smart to do so, to not cave in to our sh*t tests, and to keep the balance.

Here's a good example of alpha vs beta. My DD24 has been negotiating with her boyfriend. He wants her to watch football while she wants him to learn ballroom dancing. So they made an agreement - for every football game she watches, he'll attend another dance class. Yesterday, they were negotiating her watching Breaking Bad, which he really wants her to watch (and love like he does). So she negotiated that, for the first season, she gets to use her laptop while the show is on (to play Candy Crush and be on tumblr), but she can't use it during the second season (he's betting that she'll be hooked by then), but for the second season, she gets ice cream or a back rub each episode. A Nice Guy wouldn't have been able to handle this kind of negotiating, but they respect each other and they both respect themselves enough not to just give in to please the other one. If he had given in and just watched Dance Moms with her, she would have liked him a little less.


----------



## turnera

DoF said:


> I understand that and agree completely.
> 
> So tell me, why is it that so many women marry these "push over" type of guys to begin with?


Seriously? You mean you didn't put on a good face when you were dating? When you were first married? We all do. We all get a wakeup call once we get married and we start taking each other for granted, and let the real person show. And most likely, there haven't been enough situations in which the pushover guy has an opportunity to cave, to show his true colors. Which is why I always tell people to date for at least 3 years, so you can see your potential mate in every possible situation, good and bad, to see if you truly are a good match.


----------



## DoF

turnera said:


> Seriously? You mean you didn't put on a good face when you were dating? When you were first married? We all do. We all get a wakeup call once we get married and we start taking each other for granted, and let the real person show. And most likely, there haven't been enough situations in which the pushover guy has an opportunity to cave, to show his true colors. Which is why I always tell people to date for at least 3 years, so you can see your potential mate in every possible situation, good and bad, to see if you truly are a good match.


We all do, but in TIME....truth comes out. You are correct, date and give it TIME.

Time is your friend when looking for someone special. DO NOT let "honeymoon phase" control you and force you to make lifetime decisions (happens all the time).

There is always a small chance of person completely changing no matter how much time you INVEST and how much due diligence you do.

But it's all about minimizing the risks.

So to answer your question, yes I was serious. 

These women that marry these guys PAVE THEIR OWN ROAD by ignoring red flags and not investing enough time to get to know the person. And I know FOR SURE that many like this sort of guy initially (as they love total control) but as time does it's job and maturity kicks in all of that is out the window. 

You see, I recommend above EVEN though my wife and I are the exception to the rule and it has worked out for us. Most people are not as lucky as us, unfortunately.


----------



## DoF

turnera said:


> Here's a good example of alpha vs beta. My DD24 has been negotiating with her boyfriend. He wants her to watch football while she wants him to learn ballroom dancing. So they made an agreement - for every football game she watches, he'll attend another dance class. Yesterday, they were negotiating her watching Breaking Bad, which he really wants her to watch (and love like he does). So she negotiated that, for the first season, she gets to use her laptop while the show is on (to play Candy Crush and be on tumblr), but she can't use it during the second season (he's betting that she'll be hooked by then), but for the second season, she gets ice cream or a back rub each episode. A Nice Guy wouldn't have been able to handle this kind of negotiating, but they respect each other and they both respect themselves enough not to just give in to please the other one. If he had given in and just watched Dance Moms with her, she would have liked him a little less.


I'm 100% sure that my wife would love me more if I was to ignore myself and just go dancing with her.

Mind you, I wouldn't do this often as we don't have to reach these types of compromises in our relationship (as we have similar interests) but still.....if my wife was to love me less for doing what she loves and "not negotiating".......she is simply a ****ty person.

Simple as that.


----------



## turnera

DoF said:


> I'm 100% sure that my wife would love me more if I was to ignore myself and just go dancing with her.


For one situation, sure. To make it a lifelong habit of ignoring your own needs to make sure your wife is happy...only results in your wife NOT being happy.


----------



## azteca1986

turnera said:


> No. Aside from all the reading I've done (textbooks as well as mass media books), I've been on the RECEIVING end of alpha males as well as beta males. The beta males make women mad. They frustrate them. All women want is to know they can depend on the man. To do what it takes, to say no when it's smart to do so, to not cave in to our sh*t tests, and to keep the balance.


I had the good fortune to be raised by one in his image 

I think the Alpha/Beta dynamic is a useful shorthand for those good traits that "get you the girl" and those that "help you keep her". We're guilty of losing sight of the fact that every husband, betrayed or otherwise, was evidently Alpha enough at one time to get a woman to commit to him. Over time that alphaness is used less and less till, in some men, it becomes dormant. But it's still there.

We shouldn't berate a man, call him "weak" (he may well be) or "to grows some balls" (he may well need to). We should be careful we're not kicking a man when he's down. That's not the way my father taught me to conduct myself. When a BH find themselves here they are often in a hole. We help him out. Dust him down. Put him back on his feet and remind him of the guy he used to be.


----------



## DoF

turnera said:


> For one situation, sure. To make it a lifelong habit of ignoring your own needs to make sure your wife is happy...only results in your wife NOT being happy.


Of course, NOTHING is good when taken to the extreme.

And Balance is important.

Agreed


----------



## ThirtyYearsIn

turnera said:


> Here's a good example of alpha vs beta. My DD24 has been negotiating with her boyfriend. He wants her to watch football while she wants him to learn ballroom dancing. So they made an agreement - for every football game she watches, he'll attend another dance class. Yesterday, they were negotiating her watching Breaking Bad, which he really wants her to watch (and love like he does). So she negotiated that, for the first season, she gets to use her laptop while the show is on (to play Candy Crush and be on tumblr), but she can't use it during the second season (he's betting that she'll be hooked by then), but for the second season, she gets ice cream or a back rub each episode. A Nice Guy wouldn't have been able to handle this kind of negotiating, but they respect each other and they both respect themselves enough not to just give in to please the other one. If he had given in and just watched Dance Moms with her, she would have liked him a little less.


That is the story of a beta. He tries to negotiate and ends up with her sitting there not paying attention to the show then second season he has to rub her back and feed her ice cream? That is a very weak man. Alpha would not give a **** if she wanted to watch the show with him or not. Alpha would just watch the show and not beg for her validation. You don't know the difference between alpha and beta. By the way I like DoF post, the alpha beta thing is nonsense.


----------



## As'laDain

I'm dipping out. I don't see this thread going anywhere. OP only comments enough to let us argue back and forth, while pretty much ignoring advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DoF

ThirtyYearsIn said:


> That is the story of a beta. He tries to negotiate and ends up with her sitting there not paying attention to the show then second season he has to rub her back and feed her ice cream? That is a very weak man. Alpha would not give a **** if she wanted to watch the show with him or not. Alpha would just watch the show and not beg for her validation. You don't know the difference between alpha and beta. By the way I like DoF post, the alpha beta thing is nonsense.


Thus, Alpha is NOT "relationship material" or the guy you want to be with hehe


----------



## MaritimeGuy

I guess I must be alpha as I never ask permission or need to negotiate to watch a television show I want to watch. :scratchhead:


----------



## DoF

MaritimeGuy said:


> I guess I must be alpha as I never ask permission or need to negotiate to watch a television show I want to watch. :scratchhead:


Same here, but I just don't accept any labels.

Heck, I'm offended if ANYONE compares me to any kind of label or what's considered as "norm".

I don't want to be like "the norm" or anything along the line. 

I'm me, and me is very VERY different from norm. I don't want to fall anywhere on the radar of your typical herd or "man".

Thank you very much


----------



## murphy5

hey, my wife can watch any show she wants, so long as it is scifi channel, walking dead, blacklist, hell on wheels.....


----------



## azteca1986

ThirtyYearsIn said:


> That is the story of a beta. He tries to negotiate and ends up with her sitting there not paying attention to the show then second season he has to rub her back and feed her ice cream? That is a very weak man. Alpha would not give a **** if she wanted to watch the show with him or not. Alpha would just watch the show and not beg for her validation. You don't know the difference between alpha and beta.


Give over, They're a young couple finding their own way to mesh their interests, within a relationship. 



> By the way I like DoF post, the alpha beta thing is nonsense.


Yet you're an expert on the subject?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Oh no, let's not turn another thread into alpha vs beta vs how I was raised argument.


----------



## turnera

ThirtyYearsIn said:


> That is the story of a beta. He tries to negotiate and ends up with her sitting there not paying attention to the show then second season he has to rub her back and feed her ice cream? That is a very weak man. Alpha would not give a **** if she wanted to watch the show with him or not. Alpha would just watch the show and not beg for her validation.


Uh, he's already watched the show (and isn't it over now). He wants to get her watching it by catching up on previous seasons. They've only been together a couple months, so they're navigating how they spend their time together. You make it sound like desperation while in reality it's playful banter, and they're both enjoying it very much.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

ThirtyYearsIn said:


> That is the story of a beta. He tries to negotiate and ends up with her sitting there not paying attention to the show then second season he has to rub her back and feed her ice cream? That is a very weak man. Alpha would not give a **** if she wanted to watch the show with him or not. Alpha would just watch the show and not beg for her validation. You don't know the difference between alpha and beta. By the way I like DoF post, the alpha beta thing is nonsense.


Sometimes the Alpha Kool-Aid is too strong. Sip it slowly next time. It's called compromise and even so called "alphas" do it during their mating rituals.

Oh and I do like the little strawman slipped into the argument. Turnera's story is NOT about what show he gets or wants to watch. It's about two people trying to mesh their interests. NOWHERE does she say "he can't watch what he wants." I mean it's almost like people believe you can only own one TV.


----------



## turnera

Plus, she's a PhD candidate and he works full time and he lives nearly an hour away, so their time together is VERY hard to come by They're just trying to both get in doing what they want, but together. She's been watching a lot of stuff he likes and learning about football as well, so it was starting to tip in one direction; thus the negotiations, as he tried to get her to agree to another of his shows.


----------



## RClawson

More TAM drivel. The OP has no clue and no backbone. This woman is making an absolute fool of him and he is skipping around like he is on the top of the world. What a waste.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

DoF said:


> Same here, but I just don't accept any labels.
> 
> Heck, I'm offended if ANYONE compares me to any kind of label or what's considered as "norm".
> 
> I don't want to be like "the norm" or anything along the line.
> 
> I'm me, and me is very VERY different from norm. I don't want to fall anywhere on the radar of your typical herd or "man".
> 
> Thank you very much


I am afraid this is typical for the modern man/woman....

I hear it all the time.


----------



## DoF

RClawson said:


> More TAM drivel. The OP has no clue and no backbone. This woman is making an absolute fool of him and he is skipping around like he is on the top of the world. What a waste.


Pretty much, but hey we tried.

He still has god, so no worries.


----------



## RClawson

DoF said:


> Same here, but I just don't accept any labels.
> 
> Heck, I'm offended if ANYONE compares me to any kind of label or what's considered as "norm".
> 
> I don't want to be like "the norm" or anything along the line.
> 
> I'm me, and me is very VERY different from norm. I don't want to fall anywhere on the radar of your typical herd or "man".
> 
> Thank you very much


Hmmm I still come here daily to read Mach the Oracles posts just to make sure I can maintain my man card. While I appreciate the advice given here there are far to many hobbyists on this site that need a life.


----------



## shakazulu2420

RClawson said:


> Hmmm I still come here daily to read Mach the Oracles posts just to make sure I can maintain my man card. While I appreciate the advice given here there are far to many hobbyists on this site that need a life.


Been a while since I've been here. 

UPDATE::::::

We are now talking. I got a 2 week contract out of town. I go back home Monday. We talk on phone now and laugh. She misses me. We text back n forth all day. The other day I sent surprise flowers to her work. She posted photo on Facebook. She was happy.

She went and got an order for t shirts this week and told him she couldn't work there. Next day he delivered some t shirts for her (she collected orders and gave him cash) to drop off to football moms. He requested her to be his sales rep. She said no.
Yesterday she went over again to pick up three t shirts he hadn't completed n she told him after this she needs a break from printing and collecting orders. That since our kids teams are not going to semi finals, she wouldn't be running around getting orders and printing and delivering.

She got him 80orders. Every night at practice and weekend games getting orders from parents. Then he makes them and she assists him some nights. He made 1500. Gave her $110. And then she would pick them up or he would drop them off to her and she would drive around ten pm delivering shirts twice a week.

We had started talking slowly since I left. And after in sent roses to her job, she became a different person. Even telling me she wished this contract wasn't 4 hrs away so she could come to this city n spend some nights at the hotel with me.

This week too she had been in bed with a flu two days. Posted one night who could run kids to practice for her. None of the football moms or any one volunteered. Next morning she posted who could run kids to school. No bus in small rural town on that route where we live. No one responded. I think it got her thinking. 
That she runs around for these people and none can help her.

She told me the printer guys family is rich. Owns the building where his shop is located. So he doesn't even pay rent. At that time when she started going there to do prints, we were going through a financial mess.
She assured me that she hadn't had sex with him. He is still requesting her to be his sales rep. She has said no. Maybe he promised her more. I know he mentioned earlier giving her a job(2nd job). She got all 80 orders. A lot of time talking to parents. Driving around. Taking orders 15 min away to his shop. Assisting. Time away from home. Delivering. And got a commission of $110.
She probably has realized who's there for her and all. Why mess up her home for a volunteer job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Two weeks ago she wanted me to save and leave and that she wouldn't start that printing job till after I left cause she said she didn't trust that id not go cause a scene.
To now telling him she cant be his sales rep and she needs a break from.printing n delivery etc. That basically if other moms want shirts they can do it themselves. 

Before I left to come to this city for this 2week job, she left the house one evening. I drove to printers and saw her car. I called her and asked where she was. She actually picked up and told me she had come to printers to get shirts. She didn't lie and make up some story. So I'm not sure if I was just being too paranoid. Or maybe through our financial mess, he had started looking appealing as he had his own small business. Or what.
To wanting to spend 20 hr a week as a second job there. And willing to disregard my feelings about it to now politely declining a sales rep job from him and telling him she needs a break from printing. Dunno if she realized that maybe he was falling for her. A lot has happened in two weeks. I know many here dont believe in prayers. But you are my friends. I love you all. I have been praying over my family with prayer partners and I have seen Gods miracles. I'll keep you updated.When I get back I've told the family we are going to dinner n movies and she's excited about it.


----------



## AliceA

Some people need to learn the hard way. As long as they learn I guess it's not all in vain. Not sure why you'd send her flowers though. Has she done anything flower worthy lately?


----------



## AliceA

As for the alpha/beta thing that keeps popping up. I think it's more about strength of each individual in the relationship. If the woman is strong (and I class intelligence as part of strength), and her man is weaker than her, she might struggle to respect him.

Personally, I wanted someone who could challenge me. The guys who fawned over me were never going to be a challenge. That's why the 'nice' guys don't get the girls. They give in too easy, letting their partners run roughshod over them and while their partner is stamping her boot in his face, he's trying to hand her flowers. I didn't want to be that person, so picked someone who wouldn't let me. For the women who pick the weaker guy, well, they have to live with the person they turn into, and I think that's punishment in itself.

Edited to add: note I have been watching The Walking Dead lately, so that may be colouring my thought patterns a bit too, lol


----------



## Nucking Futs

Textbook plan B. Other man wasn't going to be able to support her in the style she would like to become accustomed to so she's staying with you until someone better comes along.

And you're beta-ing up to her isn't helping you. Superficially she seems happy with it but it's because it's proof to her that she has you right where she wants you.

Are you going to take her word about no sex? Silly question, of course you are.


----------



## turnera

So is she still seeing him or not? What are you going to do if she is?

You're really really good at rationalizing.


----------



## syhoybenden

shakazulu2420 said:


> Yesterday she went over again to pick up three t shirts he hadn't completed


I don't get it. As I understand it he's just screen-printing t-shirts which should be a simple batch process. Either this dude is a total rank amateur or your chain is being pulled about how time-consuming this job is. Why the ongoing convoluted tale of the snail-like complexities of this frankly small and simple job?


----------



## IcePrincess28

OP - this change of hers didn't happen bc of you. It happened bc she got "snubbed" by this guy. And all this coincided with the hurt of none of the parents helping her. 

This sent her back your way. She left. But for all the wrong reasons. What would've happened if that guy gave her $500 instead of $110?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

shakazulu2420 said:


> Been a while since I've been here.
> 
> UPDATE::::::
> 
> We are now talking. I got a 2 week contract out of town. I go back home Monday. We talk on phone now and laugh. She misses me. We text back n forth all day. The other day I sent surprise flowers to her work. She posted photo on Facebook. She was happy.
> 
> She went and got an order for t shirts this week and told him she couldn't work there. Next day he delivered some t shirts for her (she collected orders and gave him cash) to drop off to football moms. He requested her to be his sales rep. She said no.
> Yesterday she went over again to pick up three t shirts he hadn't completed n she told him after this she needs a break from printing and collecting orders. That since our kids teams are not going to semi finals, she wouldn't be running around getting orders and printing and delivering.
> 
> She got him 80orders. Every night at practice and weekend games getting orders from parents. Then he makes them and she assists him some nights. He made 1500. Gave her $110. And then she would pick them up or he would drop them off to her and she would drive around ten pm delivering shirts twice a week.
> 
> We had started talking slowly since I left. And after in sent roses to her job, she became a different person. Even telling me she wished this contract wasn't 4 hrs away so she could come to this city n spend some nights at the hotel with me.
> 
> This week too she had been in bed with a flu two days. Posted one night who could run kids to practice for her. None of the football moms or any one volunteered. Next morning she posted who could run kids to school. No bus in small rural town on that route where we live. No one responded. I think it got her thinking.
> That she runs around for these people and none can help her.
> 
> She told me the printer guys family is rich. Owns the building where his shop is located. So he doesn't even pay rent. At that time when she started going there to do prints, we were going through a financial mess.
> She assured me that she hadn't had sex with him. He is still requesting her to be his sales rep. She has said no. Maybe he promised her more. I know he mentioned earlier giving her a job(2nd job). She got all 80 orders. A lot of time talking to parents. Driving around. Taking orders 15 min away to his shop. Assisting. Time away from home. Delivering. And got a commission of $110.
> She probably has realized who's there for her and all. Why mess up her home for a volunteer job.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Two weeks ago she wanted me to save and leave and that she wouldn't start that printing job till after I left cause she said she didn't trust that id not go cause a scene.
> To now telling him she cant be his sales rep and she needs a break from.printing n delivery etc. That basically if other moms want shirts they can do it themselves.
> 
> Before I left to come to this city for this 2week job, she left the house one evening. I drove to printers and saw her car. I called her and asked where she was. She actually picked up and told me she had come to printers to get shirts. She didn't lie and make up some story. So I'm not sure if I was just being too paranoid. Or maybe through our financial mess, he had started looking appealing as he had his own small business. Or what.
> To wanting to spend 20 hr a week as a second job there. And willing to disregard my feelings about it to now politely declining a sales rep job from him and telling him she needs a break from printing. Dunno if she realized that maybe he was falling for her. A lot has happened in two weeks. I know many here dont believe in prayers. But you are my friends. I love you all. I have been praying over my family with prayer partners and I have seen Gods miracles. I'll keep you updated.When I get back I've told the family we are going to dinner n movies and she's excited about it.


I could point out the contradictions, but it will be lost on you right now.
Two things:
1) I notice your update is the exact opposite of the advice you were given.
2) You never mentioned where she was, when she ended the marriage.

Good luck.


----------



## shakazulu2420

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I could point out the contradictions, but it will be lost on you right now.
> Two things:
> 1) I notice your update is the exact opposite of the advice you were given.
> 2) You never mentioned where she was, when she ended the marriage.
> 
> Good luck.


Yeah. I believe she realized there was no grand future there.She had said she wouldn't take the job till I left. And she had given me a month to save and leave. Day after I left she got a flu. That was Friday. Monday and Tuesday she was in bed. Wed I sent flowers and she changed. Became very loving. Even mentioned how if I worked closer these nine days she would have visited. Also I came to work these nine days with a FEMALE co worker who rode with me and company got us both rooms side by side at the hotel. This seems to bother her although she didn't out rightly say it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

shakazulu2420 said:


> Yeah. I believe she realized there was no grand future there.She had said she wouldn't take the job till I left. And she had given me a month to save and leave. Day after I left she got a flu. That was Friday. Monday and Tuesday she was in bed. Wed I sent flowers and she changed. Became very loving. Even mentioned how if I worked closer these nine days she would have visited. Also I came to work these nine days with a FEMALE co worker who rode with me and company got us both rooms side by side at the hotel. This seems to bother her although she didn't out rightly say it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Duly noted, you avoided answering #2.

Good luck, I really hope it doesn't come crashing around you head.


----------



## shakazulu2420

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Duly noted, you avoided answering #2.
> 
> Good luck, I really hope it doesn't come crashing around you head.


2?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I could point out the contradictions, but it will be lost on you right now.
> Two things:
> 1) I notice your update is the exact opposite of the advice you were given.
> 2) You never mentioned where she was, when she ended the marriage.
> 
> Good luck.


----------



## TRy

shakazulu2420 said:


> I CALLED THE DUDE. ABD SAID"CAN WE MEET....BUT PLEASE DONT TELL MY WIFE..." AS SOON AS I SAID THAT HE BLEW UP "IF THIS IS ABOUT SOME DRAMA I DONT WANNA HEAR IT..." THEN HE HANG UP


 I know that this is late, but thought that you should know for the future, as this is not over. Never tell the other man (OM) that is having at least an emotional affair (EA) with your wife "PLEASE DONT TELL MY WIFE" about you speaking with him. Doing so does the following:

1) It gives him all the power in the conversation as you are asking a favor of him.
2) It shows him that he is winning in the battle for your wife, as you have lost control of your marriage such that you need his help.
3) It makes you look foolish in that you would actually think that he would be a good guy and help you with your marriage, when his goal is to steal your wife. The truth is not only will he not help you, but he has been bad mouthing you to your wife every chance that can gets as he is trying to split you up.
4) He knows that you do not want your wife working there yet he keeps offering her a job. Hanging up on you confirmed that it was all out war between the two of you for your wife, and that he is your enemy. Any further contact between him and your wife should be viewed by you as your wife giving comfort to your enemy, and is a betrayal.


----------



## turnera

So let me get this straight. She started an affair. You told her to stop. She told you to get the hell out of the house. You complied like the beta that you are - WTH?! - and left. She realized he was using her and shafted her by paying her only $110 and realized she had no friends, so she started kissing up to you, as her only option left, and you replied by sending her flowers?

Jesus Christ.


----------



## shakazulu2420

TRy said:


> I know that this is late, but thought that you should know for the future, as this is not over. Never tell the other man (OM) that is having at least an emotional affair (EA) with your wife "PLEASE DONT TELL MY WIFE" about you speaking with him. Doing so does the following:
> 
> 1) It gives him all the power in the conversation as you are asking a favor of him.
> 2) It shows him that he is winning in the battle for your wife, as you have lost control of your marriage such that you need his help.
> 3) It makes you look foolish in that you would actually think that he would be a good guy and help you with your marriage, when his goal is to steal your wife. The truth is not only will he not help you, but he has been bad mouthing you to your wife every chance that can gets as he is trying to split you up.
> 4) He knows that you do not want your wife working there yet he keeps offering her a job. Hanging up on you confirmed that it was all out war between the two of you for your wife, and that he is your enemy. Any further contact between him and your wife should be viewed by you as your wife giving comfort to your enemy, and is a betrayal.


Number 4 very important. He keeps offering her a job even when he knows I'm not ok. Based on her telling him she would accept it after I left.

Someone asked also where she was when she ended the marriage. It was via letter.

He probably doesn't know I'm still there and she's turned around.

She got paid $110 yes. I told her she was being used. All that work for $110. You get a business order. You help print. You take orders. You deliver orders. He makes over 1500. He pays her $100. I think bells rang in her head even though she keeps saying it was volunteer work I really wonder reason for stopping the work orb job offer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IcePrincess28

shakazulu2420 said:


> Number 4 very important. He keeps offering her a job even when he knows I'm not ok. Based on her telling him she would accept it after I left.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone asked also where she was when she ended the marriage. It was via letter.
> 
> 
> 
> He probably doesn't know I'm still there and she's turned around.
> 
> 
> 
> She got paid $110 yes. I told her she was being used. All that work for $110. You get a business order. You help print. You take orders. You deliver orders. He makes over 1500. He pays her $100. I think bells rang in her head even though she keeps saying it was volunteer work I really wonder reason for stopping the work orb job offer
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Again you only take what you want to hear from us and miss the whole point. 

You're plan B. The backup plan. 

And you're being childish. Chuckling to yourself that you "won" vs this guy. I'm starting to think that's all you care about is winning. 

Btw- You didn't win. The printer guy probably didn't even want your wife sexually. For all that work- she makes less than a kid in a nike sweat shop. He benefits. A lot. She got upset about it and is crying to you. 

But her eyes are open now to the tempting world of EA's. She won't make the same mistake twice. And will find a man who appreciates her more- for her next EA. 

And I guess you'll then get to working on how to "one up" this next guy.

Why do this to yourself?


----------



## shakazulu2420

IcePrincess28 said:


> Again you only take what you want to hear from us and miss the whole point.
> 
> You're plan B. The backup plan.
> 
> And you're being childish. Chuckling to yourself that you "won" vs this guy. I'm starting to think that's all you care about is winning.
> 
> Btw- You didn't win. The printer guy probably didn't even want your wife sexually. For all that work- she makes less than a kid in a nike sweat shop. He benefits. A lot. She got upset about it and is crying to you.
> 
> But her eyes are open now to the tempting world of EA's. She won't make the same mistake twice. And will find a man who appreciates her more- for her next EA.
> 
> And I guess you'll then get to working on how to "one up" this next guy.
> 
> Why do this to yourself?


You know what....im happy my wife's eyes opened. Should I be rejoicing that my marriage ended or that it was saved? I'm happy and I don't feel guilty about it. I dont always look at gloom. This to me isnt a forum of no hope. There are success stories in the midst of a thousand turmoil's. 
I may be a plan B or not. I will look to the future with caution as to where I too went wrong. I won't see nothing but gloom and no hope. I came to share the good news. She realized she was being used. GOOD. Maybe she will realize not to do it again. Maybe not. I'm not going to live negatively. We all make mistakes. And we all can rectify. If she does it again then I'll know its her. And I'll deal with it then. One person even in in boxed me in anger about not following through with advice here. I took it and went 180 then worked on MY marriage in NY way and it worked. The emailed seemed like they would have been happy if my marriage failed. That my friends is not my goal. Lots of marriages fail. Many also work despite problems. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## IcePrincess28

Again. You seem to only care about teaching others a lesson. You think you taught her that she was being used. You've only taught her to look for a more appreciative man to cheat on you with. 

You didn't save your marriage. You rolled around in dirt to win her back. She's back. But she has no respect for you. Ever heard of the friend zone? You're in it. Except you're fwb and you put a roof over her head. 

I hope I'm wrong. The world shouldn't punish people just because they have a moment of weakness and choose to go the easy route by putting a bandaid on their marriage. 

The world should be filled with marriages where wayward spouses like ur w- breath a sigh of relief and say- I got off easy on that one. Lesson learned. I will never do it again. But such is not the case. She has went down the ave of temptation and came back home without receiving any consequences for it. She will take another furlough from marriage soon enough.


----------



## AliceA

I think people are just surprised how well you took being kicked out of your own home, how you have no residual anger at your wife for her actions and how you welcome her back with open arms while she still openly visits a man she kicked you out for.

I would think it'd be normal to feel extremely angry and upset about these events, and not so magnanimous. It feels quite off. That said, everyone is different and will have different reactions. People feel affronted on your behalf, yet your own reaction seems to scream, "it was blip on my radar and now it's gone", where to others it would've been a scene from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. 

I hope your blip was really just a blip. I hope everything works out between you and your wife. You have a right to feel however you feel about this situation. It's your life. Good luck.


----------



## TRy

shakazulu2420 said:


> Number 4 very important. He keeps offering her a job even when he knows I'm not ok. Based on her telling him she would accept it after I left.
> 
> Someone asked also where she was when she ended the marriage. It was via letter.
> 
> He probably doesn't know I'm still there and she's turned around.
> 
> She got paid $110 yes. I told her she was being used. All that work for $110. You get a business order. You help print. You take orders. You deliver orders. He makes over 1500. He pays her $100. I think bells rang in her head


 Do you realize that if this guy was not such a cheap jerk, and offered your wife just a few hundred dollars more as fair compensation for the work that she had done, that she would have left you for him? The other man getting your wife, and the end of your marriage, was only a few hundred dollars away from happening, and yet you are rejoicing him being so cheap as a victory? When you think of all of the money that you share with your wife month after month, year after year, and that accounts for nothing if the other man would have just spent a few hundred bucks more, it should make your head spin. You honestly do not get it do you?


----------



## shakazulu2420

TRy said:


> Do you realize that if this guy was not such a cheap jerk, and offered your wife just a few hundred dollars more as fair compensation for the work that she had done, that she would have left you for him? The other man getting your wife, and the end of your marriage, was only a few hundred dollars away from happening, and yet you are rejoicing him being so cheap as a victory? When you think of all of the money that you share with your wife month after month, year after year, and that accounts for nothing if the other man would have just spent a few hundred bucks more, it should make your head spin. You honestly do not get it do you?


I completely understand yalls point of view. 100%.
My thinking is this.

1. I am away. Been away nine days at a different city 4 hrs away for work.
2. Her attitude has improved.
3. Within a short time I'll have us go to dinner and talk. I'll raise this very pertinent issues .

Right now I'm not 100% out of the bush. She can probably listen to me and have more time to absorb the reality of it all when in approach it tactfully at the opportune time. If I approach it now I risk having any positive gains obliterated. Same concept like dont make decisions in anger.

I'm upset. I'm paranoid about the future of she can end this so fast. 

At that time I'll take her to a weekend get away. Flowers. Etc. In the midst of it I'll raise the issue and say how it hurt me(even of maybe there was NO SEX AS ONLY SHE AND HIM KNOW IF THEY DID). She's more prone to listen then. Now it would reverse any gains.Brought in the midst of a romantic weekend, she is more likely to hear and take to heart lots of what I have to say.

I'm not celebrating winning over him. I'm celebrating my family back. I'll mention how we need to be united and show a united front cause for eg, a man offering her a job when he knows I do not approve smacks of disrespect. And if he offered her the job in the belief that I was out of her life based on her telling him that, then I'll reinforce that we need to stand together. I'll then say how look when you were sick no one offered to assist with your kids but your mom. This is where u sent flowers , get well soon. That she posted on Facebook. And said "who sent this to my office"? Lf course she knew it was me as the flowers came with a card. She was showing off. And in the comments people made, she mentioned the kids and me and said "that's my family". In other words she was telling the world, that I'm her man. Her family. 

I'll tell her how when she was sick only her family was there for her. Only I sent flowers. Only I treated her lovingly when she did not deserve to be loved. That I didn't repay evil with evil. That I still paid some of her bills during this time. 

She even said "you are different". I think she expected a normal human reaction from me. Instead I shocked her by acting loving to her despite her actions. Me being away, this gave her space to think. Picture yourself acting badly and in a cruel fashion to someone. And that person shows you nothing but love and kindness. When alone, you would be jolted to wonder ...hmmm why am I acting this way? This person is different. You would be ashamed. 

This proved to her that I love her. Despite her not loving me. On that point of strength I'll raise the issue of further behavior like this and mention that a second time I'll be gone, and she will be on her own. At that point mention how she was so close to losing all of this for a few t shirts and $110. That in future she should consider my warnings and concerns not as dictatorship but as love. 
I'll ask her supposed I left. You have now seen that out of an order of 80t shirts in our small town where he made 1200-1500, you got $110, how much do you think he would have paid you? How many t shirts would you sell in this small rural town to be able to make say $1000 extra a month which we know he cant pay?

I believe she has woken up to this realization. And contrary to some here who believe other wise, I believe she has a new found respect for me.
She is now telling me her lifes details. Where she's at. What shea doing. Etc. She's calling me and texting. Asking how I am. All this achieved without force so to speak on my part. You can fight wars in two ways. Diplomacy or military. Achieve same desired result but with two different paths. I am choosing diplomacy. 
I'll fight hard. When we do talk. But I'll fight diplomatically.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## azteca1986

shakazulu2420 said:


> I'm upset. I'm paranoid about the future of she can end this so fast.
> 
> At that time I'll take her to a weekend get away. Flowers. Etc. In the midst of it I'll raise the issue and say how it hurt me(even of maybe there was NO SEX AS ONLY SHE AND HIM KNOW IF THEY DID). She's more prone to listen then. Now it would reverse any gains.Brought in the midst of a romantic weekend, she is more likely to hear and take to heart lots of what I have to say.


You have no idea how unbelievably weak you're planning on being. Why are you rewarding your wife for pursuing a relationship with another man over you?

Flowers? The only way my wife would receive flowers from me after daring to have a boyfriend whilst still being married to me is to have me chuck them in her face the same way she did with our marriage. (I'm speaking metaphorically of course).

I can see why some posters feel that you don't understand what's been posted. You can't nice your wife away from the her affair behaviour. You'll find this out for yourself sooner or later.


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## AliceA

He's taking a different path from one many here would take; that doesn't mean it's the wrong path for him, even if it turns out that it doesn't save his marriage. Taking the path many would take wouldn't necessarily save his marriage either. Respect a person for making his own choices and doing things his own way. There's strength in that resolve, even if it doesn't make sense to many here.


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## Nucking Futs

breeze said:


> He's taking a different path from one many here would take; that doesn't mean it's the wrong path for him, even if it turns out that it doesn't save his marriage. Taking the path many would take wouldn't necessarily save his marriage either. Respect a person for making his own choices and doing things his own way. There's strength in that resolve, even if it doesn't make sense to many here.


The reason so many of us are so flabbergasted by his behavior and so adamant that he's going about it the wrong way is experience. What he's doing is rarely a long-term fix. 

His WW must respect her husband or the marriage will fail, no ifs ands or buts. No respect = marriage doomed. His actions will not build her respect for him. 

His whole message to his wife is that he's the better provider for her than t-shirt guy. Ok, what happens when the next guy comes along and he's got a few more bucks?

Bottom line, he's rug sweeping an affair and setting himself up for losing his family in the future. His message to her is not that she should spend the rest of her life with him, it's to pick her next partner more carefully.


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## TRy

shakazulu2420 said:


> That she posted on Facebook. And said "who sent this to my office"? Lf course she knew it was me as the flowers came with a card. She was showing off.


 The fact that she would post the question "who sent this to my office" when posting a photo of the flowers, introduces to the world the possibility that they could have come from someone else. Not something most married women would post. If not for your card telling her who they were from, she would not have know for sure that they were from you or the other man.


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## TRy

shakazulu2420 said:


> At that time I'll take her to a weekend get away. Flowers. Etc. In the midst of it I'll raise the issue and say how it hurt me(even of maybe there was NO SEX AS ONLY SHE AND HIM KNOW IF THEY DID). She's more prone to listen then. Now it would reverse any gains.Brought in the midst of a romantic weekend, she is more likely to hear and take to heart lots of what I have to say.


 Just like you thought that talking to the other man while weakly asking him the favor of not telling your wife was a good idea, you think that being weak with your wife will win her over. Your whole post was you walking on egg shells so as not to upset your wife. You are concerned about timing it just right so as to not get her mad. Based on what you just posted your conversation would go something like "Honey I do not know if you had sex with the other man or not, that is between you and him, but can you see how the fact that you almost left me for the other man might hurt me?" When so many of us say that you do not get it, we are saying that you cannot nice your way out of this. She can love someone that she does not respect, but she cannot be in love with someone unless she respects him. The other man hanging up on you shows that he learned from you wife that he does not have to treat you with respect. Your wife does not respect you, and your actions so far are not doing anything to gain that respect. 



shakazulu2420 said:


> She even said "you are different". I think she expected a normal human reaction from me. Instead I shocked her by acting loving to her despite her actions. Me being away, this gave her space to think. Picture yourself acting badly and in a cruel fashion to someone. And that person shows you nothing but love and kindness. When alone, you would be jolted to wonder ...hmmm why am I acting this way? This person is different. You would be ashamed.


 This is not at all what she meant when she said that you were different, as she is not at all ashamed. Your lack of understanding your wife and human nature in general really shows with this statement. You acting like a doormat that will return betrayal with kindness, does get you respect and love. When you act like a doormat, you should instead expect to be walked on.


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## ricky15100

*Re: Re: Help--- wife spending too much time with single man, im i over reacting?*



TRy said:


> The fact that she would post the question "who sent this to my office" when posting a photo of the flowers, introduces to the world the possibility that they could have come from someone else. Not something most married women would post. If not for your card telling her who they were from, she would not have know for sure that they were from you or the other man.


I think she was trying to make the om jealous!


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## azteca1986

breeze said:


> There's strength in that resolve, even if it doesn't make sense to many here.


You'r seeing something that I can't see.

There's no strength in standing idle whilst you wife openly spends her free time with another man. This was the first response to the thread:


tom67 said:


> I suggest you put an end to this sooner rather than later.
> It is not appropiate at this point.


Since which time OP has done precisely nothing. You gain people's respect by your actions.

It's clear from OP's finely chosen words on his skills in the Art of Diplomacy, that he holds Neville "Peace for our Time" Chamberlain as a role model. Appeasement and inaction get you nowhere.


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## AliceA

He's holding on to his ideals about what who he wants to be is what I meant. He feels diplomacy will get him what he wants. Other people will feel that this is a pipe dream. The fact is, whatever the outcome is, he will know what actions/inactions he took to get him there. He has a clear idea on what he will do and will not do to work on his relationship. I think that we seek advice when we don't know what we want to do, to find out what others feel we *should do*, then figure out if this is something we *will do*, or not do, as the case may be. People gave him advice and it gave him a way to solidify in his head what he wanted to do. It just happens that it wasn't what others wanted him to do.

People on this board have to start showing a little more respect for other people's right to choose what they want to do, even if you don't agree with it. Sending private messages telling someone what you think of them because they don't fit into your mould is cowardly imo. If you have something to say to them, say it publicly, accept the consequences for your offensive behaviour.

If his marriage goes south, if his wife has an affair or continues an affair, it's him that has to live with it, not the people on this board, so accept that he'll make his choices and he'll live with the consequences, and that's just the way life is.

Edited to add: I'm just using the word 'diplomacy' as a way to describe what the OP is doing because that's the word he used to describe it, not because I feel this is the best descriptive word for it.


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## phillybeffandswiss

shakazulu2420 said:


> 2?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She told you it was over, left the house, didn't come home for days, except to pick up your daughter and you never said what happened.So, I take that as her saying don't ask and you sweeping it under the rug.

You just admitted she ended up back over there and you caught her at his store again. She was still running around taking orders and fulfilling business for the guy. You know, once again, because she wasn't answering her phone. No consequences were enacted, boundaries weren't set and her bad actions have been repeated.

She has punished YOU for protecting the marriage and you rewarded her with flowers. So, when you are ready, people will be here to help when you get the real proof with this guy or another one. Yes, it'll happen again because she understands, if she storms out you WILL take her back no questions asked.


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## Q tip

Wonder if he'll improve himself after reading MMSLP...?


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## turnera

shakazulu2420 said:


> This proved to her that I love her. Despite her not loving me. On that point of strength I'll raise the issue of further behavior like this and mention that a second time I'll be gone, and she will be on her own.


You're saying that your 'strength' was loving her despite her cheating on you. And because you were strong enough to love her despite her cheating on you and kicking you out of the house, you now have the right - and the validity - to say 'do it again and you'll never see me again'? Even though she IS doing it again? How does that work? When does 'again' kick in?


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## See_Listen_Love

shakazulu2420 said:


> I completely understand yalls point of view. 100%.
> My thinking is this.
> 
> ...


Aside from the marriage issues, you have a much bigger problem.

You cannot think straight. 

You could maybe get yourself educated on the subject, look on youtube, google on it.

examples:

*Julia Galef: Think Rationally via Bayes' Rule*
Julia Galef: Think Rationally via Bayes' Rule - YouTube

*Think Small to Solve Big Problems, with Stephen Dubner* Think Small to Solve Big Problems, with Stephen Dubner - YouTube

longer:*Teaching Critical Thinking - Full Video *
Teaching Critical Thinking - Full Video - YouTube

Just search for short videos to form an opinion of what is right for you to understand, and from there grow your knowledge with a serie of them, or some longer videos.

_If you study this, you change, if you change, your circumstances change._


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## shakazulu2420

See_Listen_Love said:


> Aside from the marriage issues, you have a much bigger problem.
> 
> You cannot think straight.
> 
> You could maybe get yourself educated on the subject, look on youtube, google on it.
> 
> examples:
> 
> *Julia Galef: Think Rationally via Bayes' Rule*
> Julia Galef: Think Rationally via Bayes' Rule - YouTube
> 
> *Think Small to Solve Big Problems, with Stephen Dubner* Think Small to Solve Big Problems, with Stephen Dubner - YouTube
> 
> longer:*Teaching Critical Thinking - Full Video *
> Teaching Critical Thinking - Full Video - YouTube
> 
> Just search for short videos to form an opinion of what is right for you to understand, and from there grow your knowledge with a serie of them, or some longer videos.
> 
> _If you study this, you change, if you change, your circumstances change._


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shakazulu2420

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shakazulu2420

shakazulu2420 said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WE GOT BACK TOGETHER. STRONGER AND BETTER AND MORE IN LOVE THAN DAY 1.

Its been a while since I've been here. A lot has happened since. I suspected she was seeing the printer. She wasn't .
Whilst we were going through that phase she didn't sleep at home some nights. She slept at her sisters who was separated then. Her sister is friends with a guy she used to see before me. He is a neighbor of the sister too. He is 21. My wife is 33. She(wife) opened up to me. She told me she went n had sex with the young man TWICE ONLY. 

She says it was nothing. She just didn't wanna come home n deal with me pestering her so she sneaked into the young mans hse(he live with his dad n grandma). He has a separate door to his side of the hse. His dad n grandma didn't know as she went there late at night and left very early in the am. It only happened twice. She's not proud of herself.

She doesn't call him or vice versa. We have each others(now) Facebook acct passwords n can look at each others phones at will. No secrets. 

Then I moved out to stay with a friend out of town for a few weeks. She moved out of our rented house too(month to month) lease.
She in that time saw another man 16 yrs older and it lasted four times as he didn't treat her good. 

Its hard. I've forgiven her. Contrary to what people here may advice. We have talked. I have stated that from now on no late nights. No single friends of the opposite sex. Home after work. Passwords to Facebook. Open policy with each others phones and if this ever happens again ill be gone for good and change my number and block her on facebook.

We love each other more deeply now than we did day one. She has changed. People change. I'm willing to work on it and so is she. I want to thank all those who stood by me. Your emotional help carried me through. I did the 180 when I moved out. That WORKED. She sought me. 

Just thought I'd report on what had happened. And she's a changed person. People do change. And she's not willing to lose the marriage again over her own stupidity. I have a wife now who cooks and cleans. She doesn't understand what she was thinking. Untold her she has borderline personality disorder. She read up on it. And we are now working on it together. 

She hurt me deeply. But who am I not to forgive? 
She unfriended the second guy(older man) from her Facebook. 

She let go of friendships that were misguiding her. Her focus now is kids and me. She has posted our Facebook pic as a profile pic. She's proud to show me off unlike before. She's home right after work. She wants this to work. She's sorry for all the pain she caused me. Truly sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RV9

Bpd? Ouch....


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## JustTired

Good luck, Shaka!!! Hopefully things will continue to go well for the both of you!


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## turnera

How long have you been married? If she's 33, the OM is now 21, and you were married more than 3 years, she was 'raping' a child when she dated him. Not to mention how gross it is for an older woman to date a teenage boy. *shaking my head*


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## GusPolinski

shakazulu2420 said:


> WE GOT BACK TOGETHER. STRONGER AND BETTER AND MORE IN LOVE THAN DAY 1.
> 
> Its been a while since I've been here. A lot has happened since. I suspected she was seeing the printer. She wasn't .
> Whilst we were going through that phase she didn't sleep at home some nights. She slept at her sisters who was separated then. Her sister is friends with a guy she used to see before me. He is a neighbor of the sister too. He is 21. My wife is 33. She(wife) opened up to me. She told me she went n had sex with the young man TWICE ONLY.
> 
> She says it was nothing. She just didn't wanna come home n deal with me pestering her so she sneaked into the young mans hse(he live with his dad n grandma). He has a separate door to his side of the hse. His dad n grandma didn't know as she went there late at night and left very early in the am. It only happened twice. She's not proud of herself.
> 
> She doesn't call him or vice versa. We have each others(now) Facebook acct passwords n can look at each others phones at will. No secrets.
> 
> Then I moved out to stay with a friend out of town for a few weeks. She moved out of our rented house too(month to month) lease.
> She in that time saw another man 16 yrs older and it lasted four times as he didn't treat her good.
> 
> Its hard. I've forgiven her. Contrary to what people here may advice. We have talked. I have stated that from now on no late nights. No single friends of the opposite sex. Home after work. Passwords to Facebook. Open policy with each others phones and if this ever happens again ill be gone for good and change my number and block her on facebook.
> 
> We love each other more deeply now than we did day one. She has changed. People change. I'm willing to work on it and so is she. I want to thank all those who stood by me. Your emotional help carried me through. I did the 180 when I moved out. That WORKED. She sought me.
> 
> Just thought I'd report on what had happened. And she's a changed person. People do change. And she's not willing to lose the marriage again over her own stupidity. I have a wife now who cooks and cleans. She doesn't understand what she was thinking. Untold her she has borderline personality disorder. She read up on it. And we are now working on it together.
> 
> She hurt me deeply. But who am I not to forgive?
> She unfriended the second guy(older man) from her Facebook.
> 
> She let go of friendships that were misguiding her. Her focus now is kids and me. She has posted our Facebook pic as a profile pic. She's proud to show me off unlike before. She's home right after work. She wants this to work. She's sorry for all the pain she caused me. Truly sorry.


See you in a few weeks!


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## Zouz

"She told me she went n had sex with the young man TWICE ONLY"

I am speechless .


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## ArmyofJuan

Oh boy, its WAY too soon to be claiming victory. 6 months from now there's a good chance you'll be filing for a divorce.

You are minimizing and going into denial which is normal. Once the dust settles the anger phase will kick in and you'll see things in a whole new light...this is assuming she doesn't start up the A again. Don't let the hysterical bonding blind you. 

Nobody changes overnight, it takes months and months of consistent behavior. You think you made it to the end but little do you know you are still at the beginning. This will be haunting you years from now.


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## italianjob

shakazulu2420 said:


> She told me she went n had sex with the young man *TWICE ONLY*.
> 
> She says it was nothing.
> 
> She in that time saw another man 16 yrs older and it *lasted four times as he didn't treat her good. *


Well, guess it could be worse... could be raining...
Lucky you... :scratchhead:


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## manfromlamancha

She had sex with her boy toy and an older man all in the space of a few weeks and while still married to you. She did this because she KNEW that you would "forgive" her. As Zous said, I am speechless!

Please do not hide behind the "I'm a bigger man" or "religion teach me forgiveness" spiels - you forgave her because you are scared. Too scared to let her go and find someone decent. Of course she is cooking and cleaning now - nobody wants to be on their own earning $100 for weeks of work. She will do this until she finds a richer guy who actually wants her.

Be very careful because your next hurt will be ten times worse. You will be thinking about your being a fool for forgiving her the first time round.


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## TRy

shakazulu2420 said:


> WE GOT BACK TOGETHER. STRONGER AND BETTER AND MORE IN LOVE THAN DAY 1.
> 
> Its been a while since I've been here. A lot has happened since. I suspected she was seeing the printer. She wasn't .
> Whilst we were going through that phase she didn't sleep at home some nights. She slept at her sisters who was separated then. Her sister is friends with a guy she used to see before me. He is a neighbor of the sister too. He is 21. My wife is 33. She(wife) opened up to me. She told me she went n had sex with the young man TWICE ONLY.
> 
> She says it was nothing. She just didn't wanna come home n deal with me pestering her so she sneaked into the young mans hse(he live with his dad n grandma). He has a separate door to his side of the hse. His dad n grandma didn't know as she went there late at night and left very early in the am. It only happened twice. She's not proud of herself.
> 
> She doesn't call him or vice versa. We have each others(now) Facebook acct passwords n can look at each others phones at will. No secrets.
> 
> Then I moved out to stay with a friend out of town for a few weeks. She moved out of our rented house too(month to month) lease.
> She in that time saw another man 16 yrs older and it lasted four times as he didn't treat her good.
> 
> Its hard. I've forgiven her. Contrary to what people here may advice. We have talked. I have stated that from now on no late nights. No single friends of the opposite sex. Home after work. Passwords to Facebook. Open policy with each others phones and if this ever happens again ill be gone for good and change my number and block her on facebook.
> 
> We love each other more deeply now than we did day one. She has changed. People change. I'm willing to work on it and so is she. I want to thank all those who stood by me. Your emotional help carried me through. I did the 180 when I moved out. That WORKED. She sought me.
> 
> Just thought I'd report on what had happened. And she's a changed person. People do change. And she's not willing to lose the marriage again over her own stupidity. I have a wife now who cooks and cleans. She doesn't understand what she was thinking. Untold her she has borderline personality disorder. She read up on it. And we are now working on it together.


 So in the 6 weeks since she gave up her affair with the printer guy, she has had sex multiple times with two different lovers, and yet you say that "WE GOT BACK TOGETHER. STRONGER AND BETTER AND MORE IN LOVE THAN DAY 1"? If your wife vomited out her dinner, and served it to you on a plate, you would be telling us how she was so in love with you that she served you a warm meal.


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## MachoMcCoy

I don't understand what just happened here...


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## phillybeffandswiss

shakazulu2420 said:


> She slept at her sisters who was separated then. Her sister is friends with a guy she used to see before me. He is a neighbor of the sister too. He is 21. My wife is 33. She(wife) opened up to me. She told me she went n had sex with the young man TWICE ONLY.
> 
> It only happened twice. She's not proud of herself.
> 
> She in that time saw another man 16 yrs older and it lasted four times as he didn't treat her good.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, she had her fun and came home? She had sexual encounters, despite your protestations and others as well, but not with that printer guy? Okay. 

Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself, not us, that everything is okay.
Good luck and we'll still be here when you anger her again.


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## PBear

I hope std tests and protected sex are the order of the day for the next 6 months... 

C


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## turnera

She must have run out of money.


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## tulsy

shakazulu2420 said:


> WE GOT BACK TOGETHER. STRONGER AND BETTER AND MORE IN LOVE THAN DAY 1.
> 
> ...He is 21. My wife is 33. She(wife) opened up to me. She told me she went n had sex with the young man TWICE ONLY.
> 
> ...in that time saw another man 16 yrs older and it lasted* four times* as he didn't treat her good.


:scratchhead:

Ummm...congrats??

Better than ever, huh? Jeesh!


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## Thound

I believe its called hysterical bonding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

Thound said:


> I believe its called hysterical bonding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like the"old" c-word better. Nope, not the insulting gender specific term either.


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## Yeswecan

turnera said:


> She must have run out of money.


Bingo....


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## AliceA

It's your life OP. I do however think it would be better for you if you didn't tell other people about it. From the outside looking in, it just looks horrible, and no amount of telling others how wonderful it is from the inside is going to make it look any better really.


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## Malaise

What's that river in Egypt?


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## mr.bunbury

The thought process of the OP here is a very singular one. His main worry was that his wife was effin the printer guy, apparently as long as she cheats on him with guys that are not related to the printing industry OP is cool about it.


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## Mr.Fisty

Congratulations on your wife not finding a better man than you. I did not know that is how love worked. So while she was out there testing her options, you dutifully waited at home. Next time she gets that itch to find something better, you can be confident that she won't, unless she finds a more successful guy, full of confidence in his abilities, and treats her better than you. Then you can let her go with love, knowing that she is in better hands. Because you want her to be happy, and if she finds an upgrade, you can wish her the best of luck. Who knows, maybe you can be the best man, or you can give the bride away.


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## MaritimeGuy

OP...imagine you were somebody other than yourself reading this story. What would you advise that guy?


----------

