# Went out on a date night last night...



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Had a nice dinner and a couple of drinks with wifey...(15th Anniversary :smthumbup: )

We had a coversation about our *SEX LIFE*, or lack there of...I don't remember the exact words that I used, but when I said that once every 7-8 weeks wasn't frequent enough for me, her first sentence was "so, you're done with me then?"...it kinda stunned me...what would make her think that I was *done with her*?

Of course I'm not done with her, if I were, I wouldn't have taken her out to dinner & have still been there trying...it just shocked me as to how matter of fact she said it...she didn't pull away or really seem upset...I wasn't quite sure how to take that...maybe, now that I have thought about it, she is done with me...I didn't get a card or any kind of gift on my anniversary... :scratchhead:

More conversation is needed...obviously!! But what am I supposed to think after that...we had a nice evening, and had a great conversation except for the sex bit...

I asked her if she doesn't find me attractive any longer (I know, a loaded question...but I just can't figure out why she has no interest in sex??)...she cuddled up to me and said "of course I do..."...WTF??

I know she is stressed about work and tired all the time, but I have made an effort for a long time (probably the past 5yrs or so) to do my part in the home as the Dad/father/husband/partner...making sure she has the evening to do with what she will...she gets about 10hrs sleep each night (although she doesn't sleep well when she is stressed), but she doesn't seem to be seeing my efforts...I don't want to be the "needy" husband...I just want to do my part and have a happy married life with the woman I love...

I'm kinda lost as to where to go from here...I know, counselling...or maybe give it more time and more date nights, but how long is a guy supposed to wait before masturbation isn't enough anylonger??

Later.


----------



## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Keep talking to her. She sounds like she is stressed with all the responsibilities of work and kids, and she has lost her sexual connection to you as a wife. Explain the emotional bonding that sex provides. Make sure she is aware that she has to be relaxed to enjoy sex. Have you tried massages?

Do you two have a date night at least twice a month? You need to do things together that you enjoy. You might also ask her for ideas about rebooting your sex life. Does she have any fantasies she wants to try? She probably does not understand that sex is more than a physical release. Keep talking; do not let this go. Ask for her input so you can see what she is thinking.


----------



## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Is there a chance that there is someone else in her life that you are not aware of (Facebook, calls, texts, emails, etc.)? 

As a person who cheated on his wife (online, text), I did the same to my wife by not having sex with her for long periods of time. I would rarely touch her as well. 

Does she initiate physical contact with you?

I really hope that there is not someone else.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

HerToo said:


> Is there a chance that there is someone else in her life that you are not aware of (Facebook, calls, texts, emails, etc.)?
> 
> As a person who cheated on his wife (online, text), I did the same to my wife by not having sex with her for long periods of time. I would rarely touch her as well.
> 
> ...


Well, I hope not...that would be a deal breaker for sure...but she still does the loving touches and cuddles quite often (every night before bed at a minimum)...but it doesn't lead to sex...I don't watch TV, I like the computer...we are only about 20ft apart every night...and when she is ready for bed she comes out and give me a hug/cuddle (my face between her breasts...I love it) and a kiss good night (nope...she doesn't want me to come upstairs and "bug her for sex")...it's almost like she teases me each night and I have to deal with it myself...

I have followed her up on multiple occasions only to be turned down yet again...kind of a mixed message if you ask me...

@lovesherman...no we don't do date night often enough...that is where I have been dropping the ball...so the date night was my idea and we will be starting to do this more regularily...we go out for dinner quite often, but as a family...not a treat for her, but for me (I do the cooking)

I posted this on another thread, but thought it would have relevance to this topic as well...

*Here's a typical day in my life...

6:45am - get up, wake the kids for school (three girls, twin 9yo & 13yo) & let dogs out
7:00am - make lunch and follow up with the kids to make sure they are moving...
7:15am - have a bowl of cereal and make sure the kids are up stairs and making their lunches
7:30am - leave for work...

5:30pm - arrive home from work...only one kid there, others are at swimming practice (Mom drove them there - she is off work earlier than I am...teacher)
6:00pm - prepare the meal for the family, set the table...blah blah
6:30pm - call everyone for dinner
7:00pm - get the kids to do the dishes and ask about homework
8:00pm - get the kids headed for the bath/shower and get ready for bed
8:30pm - get the twins into bed (making sure teeth are brushed, face washed & pee before bed)
9:30pm - teenager bed time...

The wifey looks after taking the kids to their activities due to me not getting home until 5:30pm ish...but the rest of the evening (usually from after dinner 'til bed time) she has time to do whatever she feels she needs to do...be it banking, work planning (teacher), or just free time...*

That's a typical Tuesday in our house...on the weekends, I get up with the kids and she gets to sleep in until when ever she wakes up...some days 9am some 11am...she takes care of the daily tidying and laundry...I look after the rest...I think I do my part...

I told her last night that I wasn't done with her, but I did want to have sex at least once per week...we'll see where this goes...I'm hopeful, but not holding my breath...

Later.


----------



## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Sounds like my days about a decade ago. Glad that she touches you. 

Here's an idea, if you can make it happen. Get off of work early, have a friend take / pick-up up the kids from practice, and hire a sitter for the night. Surprise her at the end of her work day by picking her up at work and telling her that she is your romantic kidnap victim, and that is being held for love ransom. Go to a restaurant and get some take-out food and drinks (or bring a bottle of wine in advance - if you drink). Then drive to a simple location like a common area in a business park and enjoy dinner together. Oh, and have a single flower for her. Ask her if she is enjoying her kidnapping so far. The rest is up to you. She is not allowed to make a decision. Hug her quite often and tell her you aren't going to ever let her escape.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NO WAY would I let my W put her breasts in my face every night and then reject any sexual response. The fact that you respond with desire is feeding this bad pattern. She gets her little ego boost that you want her and then stomps on your ego when you actually follow up. 

My guess is you are actually too loving. Some women need their man to be a challenge. Bet she would take you to bed just to feel "close" to you, if she wasn't getting all that warmth every day by default. 

It also seems like you have almost turned into her servant. In the hope that if you create the "perfect" environment for her, she will allow you to have sex with her. BAD move. 

In economic terms you have bid up the value of sex to a staggeringly high value. 



coldshoulder said:


> Well, I hope not...that would be a deal breaker for sure...but she still does the loving touches and cuddles quite often (every night before bed at a minimum)...but it doesn't lead to sex...I don't watch TV, I like the computer...we are only about 20ft apart every night...and when she is ready for bed she comes out and give me a hug/cuddle (my face between her breasts...I love it) and a kiss good night (nope...she doesn't want me to come upstairs and "bug her for sex")...it's almost like she teases me each night and I have to deal with it myself...
> 
> I have followed her up on multiple occasions only to be turned down yet again...kind of a mixed message if you ask me...
> 
> ...


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Firstly Happy Anniversary!! ....and congrats on wanting to improve your marriage.



coldshoulder said:


> We had a coversation about our *SEX LIFE*, or lack there of...I don't remember the exact words that I used, but when I said that once every 7-8 weeks wasn't frequent enough for me, her first sentence was "so, you're done with me then?"...it kinda stunned me...what would make her think that I was *done with her*?


Okay I know you said you don't know which exact words you used but I wonder what her response would have been if your conversation went something like: "mmm I remember last time you and I were intimate and I did/you did x.... that was insanely sexy" (assuming it was) "I need to have more of you that way." 

Also as for her teasing you with the breasts/face, she's knowing that you desire her, that she can turn you on easily (assuming she can), and there's no real effort needed from her beyond that to know she can still get you that way. Two views here: 1) Her ego is fed and sex isn't a priority. OR 2) This is her way of initiating and you need to take that signal and run with it in a way you haven't before. Take her by surprise.

I might be simplifying things, based purely on what you wrote. Heck whadda I know? But ......(assuming you don't already) maybe slowly but surely send flirtatious texts to her through-out the day, passionately kiss her when she arrives home. Try different flirtatious approaches including a more 'alpha' approach. I'm impressed she gets 10 hours sleep. I need to get more sleep. Maybe I should start having less sex? lol (to all the men-folk, I'm kidding!) 

Date-night without the kids sounds good. You need to rekindle the physical connection between you. Try to find ways that make her CRAVE you. How? Well, that might be something you need to work out. Pay close attention to her cues. This isn't about getting laid, this is about keeping that close connection and both of you being sexually fulfilled.


----------



## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

wifeofhusband said:


> She might have the evening to do what she wants but by then she is probably too tired. Can she cut back work so she can do those things during the day and have the evening for you?


Guess what. She's got your balls in a sack. You're treating her like a princess. "Oh, poor smuckems is tired. Let me cook dinner, take care of the kids and make life perfect for wifey."

This approach is doing you no good. She knows there's imbalance. In fact, she's guilty about it. "I guess you're done with me then" says it all. She knows she's riding the gravy train, and she won't respect you until you call her out on it. 

I highly recommend the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Glover. The basic theme you will see there is that you have to stop focusing on enabling her happiness and instead focus on being the best man you can be. That includes setting effective boundaries in which your considerations carry more weight - in your own mind - than they do now. 

From your brief description, it sounds like she's almost begging you to man up and balance the scales. When was the last time you went out with the guys and let her handle the kids? Probably way too long. 

Stress at work is a cop-out. I'm sure you have stress, too. You have to define happiness on your own terms and disconnect the emotional hose seeking her approval. Stop being a puppy dog. Start manning up.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

MarriedTex said:


> Guess what. She's got your balls in a sack. You're treating her like a princess. "Oh, poor smuckems is tired. Let me cook dinner, take care of the kids and make life perfect for wifey."


You're right...except for the dinner thing...that was an agreement that we made 20yrs ago...I'll cook if you clean...and it still stands, kinda...we have a cleaning lady that comes in once a week and does a thorough cleaning, she just has to do the daily tidy up...the kids are now tasked with the dishes...



MarriedTex said:


> This approach is doing you no good. She knows there's imbalance. In fact, she's guilty about it. "I guess you're done with me then" says it all. She knows she's riding the gravy train, and she won't respect you until you call her out on it.
> 
> I highly recommend the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Glover. The basic theme you will see there is that you have to stop focusing on enabling her happiness and instead *focus on being the best man you can be*. That includes setting effective boundaries in which your considerations carry more weight - in your own mind - than they do now.


I think that may be the best bit of advice anyone can give...*quit focussing on her, and be the best person you can be*...I'm really not a fan of the "MAN UP" statements that everyone seems to jump on, to me that is just an effin mind game...right along the lines of when you ask wifey what's wrong and you get the *NOTHING!!* answer, to which my usual response is "good, because I thought you were mad..."

I don't play that game...and don't ask me if the dress makes you look fat, find a mirror...or I will tell you, but it is better for the relationship if you ask the mirror that one... 



MarriedTex said:


> From your brief description, it sounds like she's almost begging you to man up and balance the scales. When was the last time you went out with the guys and let her handle the kids? Probably way too long.


Nope...still healing up from my motorcycle crash from my guy weekend on Sept 10-12...I took one day each weekend through the summer to have a day out with the guys...this weekend I will be going down to a buddies place to work on his '68 Firebird for a day...so, no...I do take time for just me...car shows, bike shows...but I don't go out drinking with the guys (personal reasons for that one...)



MarriedTex said:


> Stress at work is a cop-out. I'm sure you have stress, too. You have to define happiness on your own terms and disconnect the emotional hose seeking her approval. Stop being a puppy dog. Start manning up.


See, I don't see it that way...she does have stress in her job (and so do I, but I deal with it better than she does)...I'm happy with almost every part of our relationship, except the the sexual frequency...the way I see the problem is that we need to find a way to make her want to have sex more often...I don't just want her to "take on another chore", if that was the case she could be replaced with a sex doll...

Part of the problem is that we spend very little time together...I'm surprised no one picked up on it...she sits in the TV room and I'm in the family room everynight on the computer for probably the last couple hours of the day before bed...20ft apart, but there is a wall and door between us...hence the date night theory...and maybe we need to go for a walk together after dinner each night...I think it is those little things that are missing which are a bigger thing for her than she lets on...I'm not about to start watching her "reality TV", friggin waste of time if you ask me...mind numbing...but she enjoys it, and is a bit of an escape for her...I like playing with my video editing software and YouTube, which I'm sure she feels is a waste of time...so a scheduled walk after dinner and a date night every couple of weeks is what I have planned...but we are now starting week 8 of no *ACTION*!!

Getting frustrated...

Later.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Well, I agree that you need to work on becoming the best man that you can - and that includes calmly, coolly, and confidently nipping any kind of disrespect in the bud.

As well, like many couples you have seemingly drifted apart. You know that you are not getting your needs met, but chances are she isn't getting hers met either. Do you know what hers are? Your conversation at dinner threw her on the defensive when you couched it as you not getting what you want. Think about a way that you can instead turn it around and find out what it is that she needs.

A good place to start it to work on adding in additional conversation and non-sexual affection. Think back to when you were dating or when things were a lot hotter. What were the actions that you were doing then as opposed to what you are doing now?

Best wishes.


----------



## eagleclaw (Sep 20, 2010)

Seriously, week 8. Your way to patient and way to accomodating. Read mem's write up on lowering the emotional temperature in your house.

She knows you want more, she even teases you. You might not like the sounds of "man up" - but seriously. My guess is SHE WOULD.

Attraction is not a choice. It doesn't sound like she is attracted to the nice guy that does everything for her and keeps putting up with not getting the intimacy he has asked.

She wants her world rocked too. You can bet she is still masterbating so her sex drive is not dead. Be the guy you were when you started dating and she WAS attracted to you.

This isn't going to change, till you make some changes and force the issue.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Think back to when you were dating or when things were a lot hotter. What were the actions that you were doing then as opposed to what you are doing now?


That's an easy one...all the time in the world to focus on each other, now the kids and their activities take up most of our waking hours...so it comes down to effective time management, and making time for each other...so...turning off the TV & computer to spend time with each other will have to become the norm, instead of ignoring each other and entertaining ourselves...

I hope... 

I think this will be the conversation for this evening (while taking the dog for a walk...), trying to re-connect... 

I'm a very committed person, the idea of cheating on her gets my blood boiling...and I've told her that on multiple occasions...I will not cheat, but if it comes to it I will leave...my happiness is as important as hers...

Later.


----------



## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> ...I'm really not a fan of the "MAN UP" statements that everyone seems to jump on, to me that is just an effin mind game...right along the lines of when you ask wifey what's wrong and you get the *NOTHING!!* answer, to which my usual response is "good, because I thought you were mad..."
> 
> Part of the problem is that we spend very little time together...I'm surprised no one picked up on it...she sits in the TV room and I'm in the family room everynight on the computer for probably the last couple hours of the day before bed...20ft apart, but there is a wall and door between us...hence the date night theory...and maybe we need to go for a walk together after dinner each night...I think it is those little things that are missing which are a bigger thing for her than she lets on...


I'm not sure how much you've read here about the 'manning up' stuff. But, it's not about belching, farting and being foul-mouthed (as I sort of thought in the beginngin). This last part where you talk about being 20ft apart, maybe a little walk, maybe the little things, maybe, maybe. This is what needs to man up. Tell her (don't demand), but tell her, 'we need to go for a walk', 'we need to stop watching tv/computer', 'we need to do <figure it out>' so that WE can do stuff together - and connect and have sex. And tell her you are not happy with how things are, and that you are going to do things to make yourself happy. With or without her - and tell her, the preference is _with_ her.

Sitting around waiting and saying 'maybe' hasn't gotten you too far it would seem. So, change it up. Trust me, I was not a believer in the man up crap a few months back. It ain't crap. My wife was actually sitting on my lap kissing me the other night. (At least it looked like her - not sure who was in her body, but I was groovin on it!) Good luck to you both!


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

jayde said:


> I'm not sure how much you've read here about the 'manning up' stuff. But, it's not about belching, farting and being foul-mouthed (as I sort of thought in the beginngin). This last part where you talk about being 20ft apart, maybe a little walk, maybe the little things, maybe, maybe. This is what needs to man up. Tell her (don't demand), but tell her, 'we need to go for a walk', 'we need to stop watching tv/computer', 'we need to do <figure it out>' so that WE can do stuff together - and connect and have sex. And tell her you are not happy with how things are, and that you are going to do things to make yourself happy. With or without her - and tell her, the preference is _with_ her.
> 
> Sitting around waiting and saying 'maybe' hasn't gotten you too far it would seem. So, change it up. Trust me, I was not a believer in the man up crap a few months back. It ain't crap. My wife was actually sitting on my lap kissing me the other night. (At least it looked like her - not sure who was in her body, but I was groovin on it!) Good luck to you both!


Totally agree...but some people in here are pushing the "don't do what she wants until she does what you want" kinda stuff as the *MAN UP* mantra...to me that is immature mind game crap that I'm not gonna get into...

I want the stuff she likes (holding hands, cuddling, hugs...I like hugs  ), but I also want more sex...and not the "are you done yet?" type of sex...tonights dog walk should be good...a nice hour out of the house for a walk and talk session...just like being a manager at work, you can't just b1tch about the situation, you need to have a plan to make a change...otherwise it's just b1tchin'...

No expectations of tonight other than a plan that we both agree to work on...

Later.


----------



## omega (Aug 2, 2011)

Can I suggest that your wife is very insecure?

The fact that she answered you with "so, you're done with me then?" means that she doesn't think you're committed to your marriage forever. She is living her life waiting for you to leave. Most women aren't unaware of what's going on - she must know that you're unhappy, and if you combine that with insecurity, she's just waiting for you to give up and leave.

She's trying to protect herself by pulling away from you, because she "knows" that you'll leave. (Of course, this can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the more she pulls away from you, the more likely it is that you actually will leave.) 

I think you need to address her insecurities in order to fix this.

What's her self esteem like? How does she feel about herself as an individual (NOT a mother)? Does she feel beautiful (this is a completely separate issue from whether you tell her she's beautiful - does SHE feel beautiful)? Does she feel appreciated (I don't mean this in a "nice guy" kind of way - but if she feels invisible, that can contribute to insecurity)?

I say this with some experience. It's quite easy for women to feel insecure in relationships - even a marriage - and even a moderate amount of insecurity is enough to turn "he's not happy" into "he's going to leave me" in a woman's head.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

omega said:


> Can I suggest that your wife is very insecure?
> 
> The fact that she answered you with "so, you're done with me then?" means that she doesn't think you're committed to your marriage forever. She is living her life waiting for you to leave. Most women aren't unaware of what's going on - she must know that you're unhappy, and if you combine that with insecurity, she's just waiting for you to give up and leave.


I don't think she is "unaware", but she doesn't see why I think it is so important...



omega said:


> She's trying to protect herself by pulling away from you, because she "knows" that you'll leave. (Of course, this can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the more she pulls away from you, the more likely it is that you actually will leave.)
> 
> I think you need to address her insecurities in order to fix this.
> 
> What's her self esteem like? How does she feel about herself as an individual (NOT a mother)? Does she feel beautiful (this is a completely separate issue from whether you tell her she's beautiful - does SHE feel beautiful)? Does she feel appreciated (I don't mean this in a "nice guy" kind of way - but if she feels invisible, that can contribute to insecurity)?


She is pretty insecure about her weight...she doesn't feel beautiful, she feels FAT!! It doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, but I tell her she is hot to me...all the time...I just have to quit saying it when I am being a perv...(grabbing at her boobs...  )...I'm sure that tells her I like her boobs, but doesn't help with self esteem...I tell her she is beautiful at other times as well, not just when I am being "MR. OCTOPUS" as she puts it...



omega said:


> I say this with some experience. It's quite easy for women to feel insecure in relationships - even a marriage - and even a moderate amount of insecurity is enough to turn "he's not happy" into "he's going to leave me" in a woman's head.


We had a good talk about our sexual frequency on Friday night and I put my expectations out there...I don't think that weekly is too much for her to handle...she expressed her dissatisfaction with me being a night owl, "well if you would come to bed at a decent time..." but then the next sentence was that she is too tired at night and prefers it midday...so our oldest daughter had an activity all day Saturday (out of the house until 11pm), and I made sure the twins had a movie to watch while mommy and I took a shower and got ready for the day...  ...so Saturday worked out quite well for me...but the proof will be the next few weeks...you see, Saturday was exactly 7wks since our last "encounter"...the only downfall was me...I'm still healing from a motorcycle accident at the end of the summer (torn ligaments in my ankle)...everytime I was getting "close" I would move my ankle, and it would set me back...it took longer than she may have liked...but we got there...  

I just have to keep up with the courting all week, and hopefully she will be "in the mood" again on the weekend...

Wish me luck!!

Later.


----------



## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

I think you need to see a marriage counselor who can get you and your wife talking about what is going on. We can all speculate, but your wife is the only one who knows why she doesn't want more sex. 

Is there a reason why you haven't gotten counseling? You glossed over it in one of your posts, but it can be well worth the time and effort. Actually, spending an hour every week or two seeing a counselor together (I suggest a psychologist), is not very much time at all. The act of getting in the car together and driving to the appointment, talking in therapy, and then driving home is a bonding experience in and of itself.

And I think you are on track with trying to spend time together after dinner and before bed. 

There is a power dynamic in marriage. I don't support game playing, but I do think that if one person is over-giving and the other person is under-giving, that creates a problematic dynamic. Why do you give so much and she gives so little? What drives you to do it? What drives her to be passive in the relationship? Those are things to figure out. Sometimes one person gives so much that there is no room/space for the other person to be giving. Sometimes there IS a fear of abandonment in one partner, which inhibits giving and getting close.

Sex is a barometer for the entire relationship. If you don't have emotional intimacy, you likely will not be getting sexual intimacy.

You both have 100% responsibility for the marriage. A 50/50 split does not work.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Start going to bed together! 

Don't make it about sex, just a way of getting back in-sync. Even if you're a night-owl, do it.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

So you think I should be going to bed at 9:30pm?? My teenage daughter is still up...well, not really she has just gone to bed at that time...but I will get too much sleep...maybe, I guess...but I really don't need that much sleep...cuddle time...but no nookie...

Later.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I think being together and going to bed at the same time promotes intimacy. Don't make the act of having sex be your intent, rather think of this as helping with connection, and guess what - that is likely to improve her response with you anyway. It's a place to start. 

Does she lovingly/teasingly name you Mr Octopus? Or does she actually view you this way - that you grope at her?


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> I just have to keep up with the courting all week, and hopefully she will be "in the mood" again on the weekend...


I don't mean to nitpick your words here but there's something about this sentence that just made feel "hmmm" ....to me the thing about being flirted with and romanced by my H is I don't actually feel he's aiming for anything to happen other than express in that moment what he's feeling. 

Now this is where it gets to be a bit of a head-muck for me while I'm considering what I'm trying to say to you, coldshoulder, because I do love being sexual with my H and being flirted with and felt desired by him is important to me. If I felt he was doing these things _just _to see if I'd be "in the mood" later, I'm not sure they'd have the same affect on me. Does that make sense? Maybe someone else can explain more eloquently than me if needed. 

My husband has told me that at times I've been too forward and I'm remembering and rediscovering how to tease him like I used to (or hopefully now, perhaps better then before). He likes this. Sometimes he teases me in return. There's something to be said for an approach that leaves the other _wanting_ more. If he gently kisses and slowly licks the back of my neck while I'm cooking and then simply walks away ....do you know how hard it is to concentrate after that?! His walk, his posture, is very in control when he does this. The fact he does this _seemingly_ without an expectation is a HUGE turn-on. I'm not suggesting that you don't know how to flirt with your wife. Please don't misunderstand, this comment just seemed to jump out to me and I offer this thought with good intention.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Sex is a barometer for the entire relationship. If you don't have emotional intimacy, you likely will not be getting sexual intimacy.
> 
> You both have 100% responsibility for the marriage. A 50/50 split does not work.


oh and yep, that too.

:iagree:


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Have you two ever read the book "His Needs, Her Needs" together? Or gone out and started looking at the marriagebuilders.com web-site (associated with that book)?

The Most Important Emotional Needs

The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.

I think that there's a few things that your wife has stated that you maybe haven't paid enough attention to. If she says you are a 'groper', well then to her you are. If she says it in such a way that indicates that she dislikes it, then you'd do well to stop that immediately. Early in our marriage, my H and I had this issue. He was "Mr. Spider Hands". It really turned me off. To be groped all the time made me feel like nothing more than a piece of meat, and the fact I would tell him to stop constantly because I didn't like it and he wouldn't stop seemed to indicate that he did not really care about what was important to me.

You need to fill the void left by stopping groping with giving her genuine non-sexual affection. Paying attention to her, having conversations, actively listening can make a big difference. You may want to try doing the following non-sexual affection things in lieu of the groping:

How to Meet the Need for Affection Letter #1

Next, the bedtimes. My H and I have this same issue. I am honestly just so tired by the time 10:00 rolls around that my eyes are starting to roll back in to my head. We came up with a pact - we go to bed earlier together - usually by 9:00. The llittle one is in bed, the teen-ager can get himself in bed. We close and lock the door. We have our fun time together - sometimes only cuddling, lots of times much more.  If he wants to, he can get up afterward and go back in the family room to watch TV and I can drift to sleep. Actually, any more he rarely goes back to watch TV and stays and we cuddle and go to sleep. He says it has helped him to since we have to get up so early - I think he was sleep-deprived before. Anyway, point being, work on compromising what you can about bedtimes.

Best wishes.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> I don't mean to nitpick your words here but there's something about this sentence that just made feel "hmmm" ....to me the thing about being flirted with and romanced by my H is I don't actually feel he's aiming for anything to happen other than express in that moment what he's feeling.
> 
> Now this is where it gets to be a bit of a head-muck for me while I'm considering what I'm trying to say to you, coldshoulder, because I do love being sexual with my H and being flirted with and felt desired by him is important to me. If I felt he was doing these things _just _to see if I'd be "in the mood" later, I'm not sure they'd have the same affect on me. Does that make sense? Maybe someone else can explain more eloquently than me if needed.


:iagree::iagree: 

The way that I said that was probably poorly worded...I do know that I need to step up the romance in our lives and appreciate my wife on a daily basis...(the "hopefully she will be "in the mood" again on the weekend..." should have been in brackets...) It's not that I want her to "give it up" on the weekend...I want her to want me, period...I know she loves me and that this will work out...but it won't fix itself, *we both* need to work on it...but I need to let her know how I feel about her all the time so that she doesn't think I only want her for sex, as my original post kinda implies...

As for the going to bed at 9:30pm...it was a joke, I understand that she wants me to go to bed with her and just hold her...I really did get that message...and I can just get up earlier and get my me time...(not jerking off...I usually check e-mails, post on forums, etc...during that time, and it can be done in the early hours of the day just as easily as later at night)

@Laurae1967...I don't think we are at the marriage counselling point yet, I think I just need to listen better and start showing some appreciation for what she does around the house...all the little things that are done on a daily basis that go unnoticed...not that I don't feel that I do my part, but it never hurts to show some appreciation...

A couple of people mentioned my gropiness...and sometimes she likes it, other times she doesn't...and that is something I need to work on...no grabbing at the "goodies" unless I have permission (and it really is pretty easy to tell when she doesn't mind, and it is mostly how I do it and not really when...my bad)

Later.


----------



## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> Totally agree...but some people in here are pushing the "don't do what she wants until she does what you want" kinda stuff as the *MAN UP* mantra...to me that is immature mind game crap that I'm not gonna get into...


Yep . . . I don't think this is manning up. As someone mentioned on another thread, this concepts needs a name-change.



coldshoulder said:


> I want the stuff she likes (holding hands, cuddling, hugs...I like hugs  ), but I also want more sex...and not the "are you done yet?" type of sex...tonights dog walk should be good...a nice hour out of the house for a walk and talk session...just like being a manager at work, you can't just b1tch about the situation, you need to have a plan to make a change...otherwise it's just b1tchin'...
> 
> No expectations of tonight other than a plan that we both agree to work on...


This sounded from subsequent threads to have been a good and productive move. It's refreshing to read through a thread where the OP actually takes others (and their own advice) and gets on with it. Well done CS!



coldshoulder said:


> A couple of people mentioned my gropiness...and sometimes she likes it, other times she doesn't...and that is something I need to work on...no grabbing at the "goodies" unless I have permission (and it really is pretty easy to tell when she doesn't mind, and it is mostly how I do it and not really when...my bad)
> Later.


Ah, the timeless issue. . . "Honey, you liked that the last time I did it." "Yes dear, but I HATE it today! Maybe tomorrow I'll like it again - but I won't tell you!"

Heehe . . . but you stated that you figured out it's not when, but how. Funny thing - most anything my wife could do for me, I'd like it any time, any where, any place . . . but I'm not saying anything new here.

Wishing you continued success!


----------



## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> no grabbing at the "goodies" unless I have permission


And, I don't really think you mean 'permission' here, do you? As in W saying, "Dear, you may commence with groping." 

Are you really referring to her being 'receptive' to your advances? And that, knowing her (body language, moods, temperment, whatever), you 'know' when this is and is not??


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Actually, sometimes she does...catches me totally off guard...but no, I meant by knowing when she is receptive or not...not an actual permission...

Later.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Took the dog out for a nice walk...and wifey came along...we had a good chat about what was causing her stress (mostly our finances)...she was really hoping to get a new SUV, but I think we decided that she could drive the one she has for a couple more years...it's not that old, 2007...we talked about simplifying our life and getting rid of some of our expenses...then the stress should come down...

We'll see how much she really wants to simplify, or if it was just the conversation getting her ahead of herself...time will tell...no talk about the sex life tonight...maybe next time...

Later.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

coldshoulder said:


> Totally agree...but some people in here are pushing the "don't do what she wants until she does what you want" kinda stuff as the *MAN UP* mantra...to me that is immature mind game crap that I'm not gonna get into...


I think that is a serious oversimplification of what most of us are trying to say. It may seem like "hold out until you get yours" at first blush (especially to the uninitiated). But, in reality, the message is "carry yourself like your time, effort, wants and needs are valuable; and don't let anyone treat you like they are not".

Now, for some spouses, simply talking and pointing out that they are not holding up their end of the relationship is enough. Sometimes (as in your case) it isn't enough and stronger action. Moreover, as has been pointed out already, there are strong indications that your wife is willfully taking advantage of you. That is the reason we suggest that you pull back a bit.

IMO, there is a chance that your wife has that "I don't want you, but want you to want me" thing going on. There's also a chance she values you as a father and provider and not as a lover. Seriously, her idea of stress is that she might not get a new car and not getting it impacts her attraction to you? I'd be tempted to offer her a bus pass after that one.

There's also a chance that the lack of date night bothers her. But, OTOH, with you picking up the majority of morning and evening household responsibilities (on top of working F/T) I can see where you are too burned out to do more.

I don't do this often, but I'm going to offer a specific suggestion that would fix many of the issues I perceive. Offer to swap evening duties with her. Instead of going home and busting your a$$, go to the swim practice and send her home. Just say:

"It seems like the marriage is faltering. I think swapping evening roles may help us better appreciate the challenges the other faces. Plus, I would like to be more involved with the kid's activities and interact with the important people in their lives. And, it should provide an overall increase in the amount of time we can devote to each other."

This gives her a chance to see how hard you work and a chance to get her lesson planning done (probably hard to do poolside). It gives you a bit more time to, say, plan a date night, do any personal stuff you need to do, and be there for your kids.

If she refuses this offer to swap roles, then you need to be very suspicious of her motives. Likely, she either wants you to keep serving her and pulling the heavy load, or she is not attracted sexually to you and is looking to generate excuses as to why sex is not a reasonable request (rather than address her low drive / desire). OTOH, if she accepts this offer you have some assurance she's interested in treating you fairly.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks for your feedback...I haven't been in here in a long time...at the end of October 2011 I was diagnosed with Diabetes Type II...so my focus has changed...sex life hasn't changed much, but I'm not really paying much attention to it...I'm working on my health.

I've lost 25lbs since I last posted in here and am feeling much better about myself...and I think part of my wifey's problem is her self esteem...I know, it's just another excuse but she might actually be feeling a little insecure...other women are commenting on my "new look", which I don't mind at all, but she doesn't seem to like the attention I'm getting...not that she has anything to worry about, but I wonder how it is affecting her...

It's my health and I'm going to keep at it to reach my goal, and I am hoping that she will join me...but it has to be her choice...

We did get her a new vehicle...but now we are going to focus on our finances...I've put my name in for a different position at work (more money, but higher stress...but I'll be away more) so she may start to appreciate all the little things that I did in the evenings...

Anyway, I have totally dropped the ball with the romance stuff...date night was short lived...but I will restart that so that we have more uninterrupted time to chat about "stuff", and I do mean anything, not sex or my "needs"...I think there may be other issues that need to be dealt with prior to that course of action...

Later.


----------



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

coldshoulder said:


> I don't watch TV, I like the computer...we are only about 20ft apart every night...and when she is ready for bed she comes out and give me a hug/cuddle (my face between her breasts...I love it) and a kiss good night (nope...she doesn't want me to come upstairs and "bug her for sex")...it's almost like she teases me each night and I have to deal with it myself...


This sounds a bit like one of our periods of mutual frustration because, like you, I don't like TV, but I do like the computer. I'm thinking several things based on this, and on your original post in this thread.

First, don't leave that conversation hanging from your initial post. You absolutely need clarification about why she said that, and honestly, she's the only one with the answer. You have to pursue that with her and get that from her. Open and continuous communication is needed, and that requires both people for that to happen.

Second, in this post, I got into the habit for a while of sitting at the computer even after my wife went to bed. I didn't realize this was frustrating to her, and lowered her drive. I had to make an effort to change this behavior and get to bed when she did. That didn't always mean sex, but this was an area where she was needy - she needed the cuddling when she was falling asleep as well. That also led me to cut my time on the computer a little bit shorter and spend more time prior to going to bed on romantic things she likes. In our case, foot massages are her favorite. 

But when you are making the effort, even if you are doing things with no strings attached, she needs to know about your needs and frustrations. If she doesn't, she can't deal with them. I think it is fine to call her attention to you making an effort to meeting her needs and remind her sometimes (without becoming a nag) of your needs as well, and when you discuss it, don't leave things like "So you're through with me?" hanging out there. Clarify that and make sure both parties understand what is being said here.


----------



## coldshoulder (Sep 27, 2011)

Well, it's been another long time since I was in here...I've made really good progress with my diabetes and health in general (even started regular workouts :smthumbup: ) I'm now down 60lbs on the year..WOOHOO for me!

I think the attention that the other women (her friends) are giving me has made her sit up and notice what she has...I make a good income, do my part around the house with family obligations etc...all of a sudden in the last month she has become more 'attentive to my needs'...it still isn't where I want it, but we aren't going 8-12wks between being intimate. 

I think there are several reasons for this...

1. She made the decision not to go back teaching next year, so that stress is gone...finding a data clerk position won't be an issue around here.

2. Her friends telling her how 'lucky' she is (even the divorced ones  ) made her see me differently.

3. My losing a bunch of weight, getting in shape and just being more physically attractive

4. And this one surprises me the most (because I didn't beleive it when you guys suggested it)...Manning up...not the 'don't give her what she wants until you get yours' crap, more of the 'I'm going to do things to be happy with or without you, but with you is prefered' direction.

Chances are my physical changes have enabled me to be more self confident, which in turn made me decide to just 'do the right thing' and be happy.

I still need to put more effort into going to bed at the same time as her to provide her with the security she wants, and I do need to get more sleep...

Anyway, I just thought I would come in and give an update as to how things have progressed over the last while.

Later.


----------

