# Reveal emotional abuse?



## rainbow12

I live with a functional alcoholic who emotionally abuses me. It's not the most extreme case, and I had such low self esteem that I have allowed it for many years without awareness until in 2012 when I did the unthinkable - I quit drinking without his support (or permission).

We are about to go into marriage counseling as a last resort, as I have finally hit my limit when it comes to his mind games and I told him that I have fallen out of love with him and our incessant arguments have reached the point where I believe counseling is all we have left. I've tried to talking it through with him, but he continues to accuse me of being too conditional with my love, too carried away with my feelings, too interested in boosting my self esteem at the risk of our marriage. I see him as being the culprit, however much I am trying to acknowledge that I have played the victim role.

I want to outline the ways he's abused me emotionally with our couples counselor, because I see that and his alcoholism as being huge obstacles to our marital health. In a lot of ways I've given up, and I am still fearful that I won't be heard by the therapist or seen as being stuck in a blame game - and being given poor advice that just feeds into our unhealthy dynamic.

I have never been in couples counseling, and until a few weeks ago, my husband said he would never ever go to therapy and frankly doesn't believe in it unless it's good for telling his side of the story. Will he charm his way through and to my detriment? Is there a way to present the facts without judgement so that they are taken seriously by all parties?

Thoughts? Experience?


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## TryingandFrustrated

Maybe a good way to go about it would be to have an individual session with the counselor first before you start your couples counseling. I know that our MC met with both of us individually before we started going together. It may give him/her a chance to see each side and decide on where to start.


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## rainbow12

I did speak with her on the phone but only talked about his aversion to therapy. He was encouraged to call her in advance but I don't believe he has.

Would I be leading the witness by planting seeds? But then again my husband fears that women automatically get favored anyway.


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## Omegaa

rainbow12 said:


> But then again my husband fears that women automatically get favored anyway.


Is it Okay to ask what had actually made your h finally "pushed" himself into accepting a therapy/MC if he was dismissive of MC for some time? Well done to you.

I personally don't think "emotional abuse" would be seen as a an odd or taboo subject in MC where drink or drug abuse (or both) would be involved to be honest.

He can ask for a male therapist can't he?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I wouldn't label it going into the discussion.
I would focus on your feelings and then give an instance of when your feelings have been hurt. The counselor will probably ask for other instances. But don't try to jump the gun. Stick to the process of staying with what you know, which are your feelings.


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## rainbow12

The challenge for me is to use facts and quotes to support the stories behind my feelings. My word against his? The concept of couples therapy baffles me.

If I say I feel belittled, and if I am told by the therapist to just stop feeling that way because my husband doesn't mean it- I still have to tolerate his statements and then his judgement that I'm being too sensitive or making a mountain out of a molehill. When I ignore his words, I cut off my heart a little more. I'd rather have a loving companion.


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## Omegaa

My husband does this on occasion; so I know what you mean. I don't think my h's mother would ever suspect him to be this way either. (after all, that's HIS Mother who thinks he's so wonderful lol)

As much as I fear being condemned by saying this but some males can be very mean, verbally. Really mean. Alcohol probably worsens it in your h's case.

He may probably want a drinking company, I should think. Alcoholism is a serious illness. Accolade to your recovery!


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## Omegaa

rainbow12 said:


> I am told by the therapist to just stop feeling that way because my husband doesn't mean it- I still have to tolerate his statements and then his judgement that I'm being too sensitive or making a mountain out of a molehill. When I ignore his words, I cut off my heart a little more. I'd rather have a loving companion.


Sounds like your therapist is useless!! Sorry to be blunt.


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## rainbow12

Omegaa said:


> Is it Okay to ask what had actually made your h finally "pushed" himself into accepting a therapy/MC if he was dismissive of MC for some time? Well done to you.
> 
> I personally don't think "emotional abuse" would be seen as a an odd or taboo subject in MC where drink or drug abuse (or both) would be involved to be honest.
> 
> He can ask for a male therapist can't he?


He is fine with a therapist that was recommended by his friend who "solved" their marital issues in just 5 sessions. She's a woman. We haven't met her in person yet.

We are going after he said in August 2012 that he would never agree to therapy. But since we've been trying to work it out since then on our own, we are really at wit's end since we are not succeeding. Every time we have a fight that we both hated, I suggest that we get a therapist to help us. I have made it clear that I'm ready to end the relationship, which I am. I wasn't, until he's challenged me every single month to make a decision about whether I want to stay with him. How many times will I say that I want to be in the relationship, then listen to him saying that I don't want to be in the relationship, before I say - I don't want to be in it?


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## rainbow12

Omegaa said:


> Sounds like your therapist is useless!! Sorry to be blunt.


I wrote that poorly, hoping the "if" at the beginning of the sentence would still apply.

We haven't been to the therapist yet. It's my fear talking.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

rainbow12 said:


> The challenge for me is to use facts and quotes to support the stories behind my feelings. My word against his? The concept of couples therapy baffles me.
> 
> If I say I feel belittled, and if I am told by the therapist to just stop feeling that way because my husband doesn't mean it- I still have to tolerate his statements and then his judgement that I'm being too sensitive or making a mountain out of a molehill. When I ignore his words, I cut off my heart a little more. I'd rather have a loving companion.


But they are feelings. You don't need to provide facts of things that someone may have done to make you feel that way. That's not how feelings are validated, anyhow. Feelings are created through relationships. All you need to do is to say that you are feeling x, y, z and want to get to a point where you are feeling less x, y, z and maybe even d, e, f. Let your therapist handle everything in between, his or her goal is to facilitate and transform the relationship and the give and take in it. If something like alcoholism is getting in the way, or someone is not relating to you in a way that brings out your best and doesn't give a sh*t whether he gets your best or not, then that will be addressed. 

It's not as though in order to be right, you need to make someone else wrong, or for someone else to be wrong, you need to be proven to be right. 

A relationship is something that people agree to work on together. If you (meaning either party, generically, not specifically you) want to duke it out and assert dominance, head for the mud pit or the divorce court.


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## rainbow12

Wow. Very helpful. I don't necessarily want to duke it out and gain dominance, but in a way that's how it has played out so far. 

I want him to be loving, but not if that means isolating myself from friends or not spending some time on activities I really enjoy, or accepting his "Old Man River" unsolicited advice and his criticisms masked as British sarcasm. 

So I've tried to point out to him what he is doing, ignoring his barbs, telling him how I feel despite what he thinks I should feel. When he feels badly, his first instinct is to preemptively (verbally) attack me instead of just telling me how he feels. I feel like I am trying to pull out the plug so the electric saw stops running. It's super challenging to not try to touch the plug and pretend that the saw doesn't scare me or have the potential to hurt me if it gets too close.


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## angelpixie

R12. Any therapist worth his or her salt is not going to discount the effect that his alcoholism is having on your relationship. That is the elephant in the room. From what you've listed above -- the things he's accusing you of, his predisposition against counseling, his assumptions that women always come out ahead -- I don't honestly know if couples counseling will do any good the way he is right now. It doesn't sound like he's in a place to accept any responsibility. It won't matter who's saying something to him (you or a counselor) he's going to take it as an attack. 

Have been able to attend Al-Anon meetings, or do any reading on emotional abuse, or attend support groups for abused women? Those might be extremely helpful to you, as an adjunct to MC. Whether or not he keeps going, you have been affected by living with him, and you have healing you need to do. If you feel like you are constantly defending your feelings in therapy, then you don't have a good therapist. Again, his drinking has got to be given center stage before you can work on your relationship.


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## LifeIsAJourney

angelpixie said:


> R12. Any therapist worth his or her salt is not going to discount the effect that his alcoholism is having on your relationship. That is the elephant in the room. From what you've listed above -- the things he's accusing you of, his predisposition against counseling, his assumptions that women always come out ahead -- I don't honestly know if couples counseling will do any good the way he is right now.


:iagree:

As a victim of an emotionally abusive husband who was depressed and drank and smoked pot to self medicate, I can understand what you are going through. The hard truth is that it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to get any benefit from marriage counseling without removing the impediment of alcohol. 

I second the suggestion of going to Al-Anon. And then go to the library and check out Steven Stosny's book "Love Without Hurt".


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## rainbow12

The elephant in the room has been revealed and parades around the house on a regular basis. He hates that I am not embracing the alcohol nor blithely accepting the drunkenness and associated behaviors anymore - now that I don't drink. I haven't given him an ultimatum, mostly because I felt guilty for quite awhile for changing our dynamic by quitting. Now I don't feel guilty, but believe that it is his decision to make. I know it's not good for his health, but I'm mostly focused on his actions towards me instead of how he's hurting himself.

I have been reading a lot of books and websites on emotional abuse, including "Love Without Hurt," "Controlling People," "Who's Pulling Your Strings," "Emotional Blackmail," "In Sheep's Clothing," "Your Perfect Right," "Enough About You, Let's Talk About Me," "Beyond Codependency," "Is It You, or Is It Me," "and Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay." The most recent one was "Take the Bully by the Horns." I brought home "Getting the Love You Want," and he refused to talk about it, let alone read it. Told me that he really distrusts my reading the Self Help books. Well, I sure have been reading a heck of a lot. Going to IC, and mustering up the courage to let go of marriage if necessary for my mental health.

I have been attending Al-Anon for the last two months, but have not engaged in the Steps. The group I'm in is solution and healing focused.


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## angelpixie

Good, R12. Sounds like you are taking this on in a healthy way -- and most importantly, you are honoring and respecting yourself enough to realize that you are important. Of course he distrusts self-help books. They'd tell him he will have to stop doing what is easiest and most comfortable for him right now. 

You are right. Those are his choices. You might still love him, but you need to love yourself more. And it sounds like you're doing that. Good for you!


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## rainbow12

Going to our first session on Monday. I got all tied up in knots, trying to remember all that happened over the last year, and practically rehearsing in fear that I won't get the facts out. And also feeling the pain and frustration all over again.

Meanwhile, my husband went back to his lifelong technique of sweeping all under the carpet and pretending all is good (with a glass of wine in hand) and was surprised when I said I had a sore stomach and wasn't interested in figuring out dinner with him. Wanted a bath instead. He was quite surprised when I told him how my emotions led to the tummy ache. He wanted to hear more. Remember, we are going to therapy because our marriage is on the cliff and my hope is greatly diminished? He thought that was the greatest downer.

So I escaped into relaxation. Calgon, take me away!


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## rainbow12

Husband has been in what is called the "honeymoon" stage of the cycle, expecting me to sweep it all under the carpet before our first therapy session. Said we should do something fun today, and I know it is Debbie Downer, but I said that I still need us to address unresolved issues before pretending all is okay. He said, "well I am trying by saying we should have fun - for the record." I told him that every time we try to have fun together, we have been bickering.

Wanted to work out in advance what we will say, and what my goals are. I told him that the therapist will guide us and I will tell her my truth and opinions. That my goal is to identify why our relationship is unhealthy, what it will take to get healthy,& if we are both ready to do the work to get there.


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## rainbow12

Remembering to breathe - our marriage counseling is tonight. First ever for both of us.

I'm trying to keep calm, and to speak my truth - because I deserve it.


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## TryingandFrustrated

rainbow12 said:


> Remembering to breathe - our marriage counseling is tonight. First ever for both of us.
> 
> I'm trying to keep calm, and to speak my truth - because I deserve it.


Good luck, and speak your truth. It probably won't be a "fun" session, but hopefully it will be a start in the right direction.


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## angelpixie

Thinking of you, R12. State your truth, and don't let him sway you from it. You are absolutely entitled to express your feelings and state what has been happening to you and inside of you.


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## Blonde

Have you tried Al-Anon? If someone else’s drinking troubles you, attending Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group meetings can help.


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## Blonde

rainbow12 said:


> I have been attending Al-Anon for the last two months, but have not engaged in the Steps. The group I'm in is solution and healing focused.


Oops, I spoke before I finished reading.

"keep going back, it works if you work it!"


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## rainbow12

We went to our couples counseling, and now I'm trying to decide if I think it is worth it to me to go again.

I spoke my truth, which I am very happy about.

The main messages I got from the therapist were: 1) he may feel more loved if I really listen to his gripes, but I don't have to agree with them. Just listen more instead of figuratively saying la la la, I can't hear you!; 2) it may be a deal-breaker that in order for me to feel good in the marriage I need it to be about two individuals that are interdependent versus one soul. My husband wants it to return to the one soul relationship; 3) Adults have conditional love, and we're lucky if our mothers give us unconditional love (my husband needs me to give him unconditional love - as defined by him - although he couldn't explain it except to say that I don't give it to him anymore. I repeated that my conditions are, when forced to address his complaint: that we are not miserable (which we are right now), and that he switches from functioning drunk to full-on drunk (he still takes care of himself, and is pretty physically healthy overall). I have a feeling that his conditions are that I am protesting against all of his unsolicited advice, criticism, judgement - and that I separate from him when he is drinking a lot and exhibiting this behavior.


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## angelpixie

Hrm, R12. I'm really glad you said your truth, but what you've written here sounds less than ideal. Did the therapist address his addiction at all -- in the way that he's basically impaired all the time, and is not even totally present to have an honest relationship with anyone in that state? How, for example, are you two ever expected to get anywhere near #2? And it is emotional immaturity to expect unconditional love in a relationship between adults. It just doesn't happen. 

As long as he's self-medicating and blaming you for everything instead of fixing his sh!t, I don't know what the therapist really expects to improve.

I guess I'd be wondering the same thing you are. I'm sorry. Not what you wished in your best case scenario, I'm sure.


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## rainbow12

The counselor admitted before we arrived that she is not accustomed to substance addiction issues, but would focus on behavior.

I was okay with that, but now I see I'd have to gamble that he is capable of change or that we have a marriage of any worth if we spend it bickering or avoiding each other.


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## angelpixie

Hmmm. The drinking is so interwoven with everything else though, it _is_ a behavior that he's choosing to continue, and that may be affecting his personality, and be something he's turning to because of other maladaptive behaviors. I don't know how she doesn't see that, and even more, how she thinks any true and lasting improvement can be made in the face of his continuing drinking. 

I'd be so frustrated, R12. I'm sorry.


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## LifeIsAJourney

Unconditional love separates an individual from his or her behaviors. My husband once told me "This is just who I am and if you loved me you would accept it". Well, I was sick and tired of living with a depressed, angry, pothead who had the entire family walking on eggshells. 

I gave my husband an ultimatum when I was ready to accept the consequences no matter which way it went. I was fortunate that my husband chose his love for his family over his love for weed. It took him another 6 months to admit to himself that he was depressed and using pot to self-medicate. Then, and only then, were we able to make real and positive changes in our marriage. 

"Deal breakers" ARE conditions. It sounds like your husband doesn't buy into the concept of unconditional love but he expects you to. 

Unconditional love is fine for babies and small children. Anyone over the age of 6, not so much.


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## rainbow12

We spoke last night about our experience in therapy. I relayed my thoughts about how there appears to be a lot of work ahead, mostly with him. (I know, faux pas - I am stuck on seeing him as the problem. When I try to accept his behaviors as "just him," it usually means separating myself to protect myself and then I either don't feel very close to him or he spends more energy telling me how awful I am for separating and it hurts.)

He told me he really doesn't appreciate my saying I've fallen out of love with him, and he doesn't trust that I can restore that. Plus, he wants me to drop my bad attitude about our marriage. I asked plaintively, do you have a good attitude about our marriage?

Then I reminded him that there will be a lot of work ahead, and that I see that we would have to continue the therapy and not try to work it out ourselves. He wasn't sure if we should continue, because it just felt like getting our complaints out onto the table, and not a real program for restoring our marriage. He admitted that he didn't expect that after only the first session.

We had an argument this morning, because he exhibited more of his controlling nature. I am clearly sensitive now, because my feathers were ruffled when he asked for specific details about whether I was coming home before going out with my friend. I reminded him of the overall plan, then described what my plan was for that piece. Then I said, why do you ask? He answered sarcastically, I'm still in your life, you know. And I left it at that.

When I came downstairs, he said, are you mad at me? I said no. He said, but you're acting strange. Something's wrong. So, I said that I didn't like the feeling that he was asking for every detail, like he has in the past, needing me to text back immediately, to tell him where/when/who/ et cetera for every action I go through in the day. Then he got mad, said I was making a mountain out of a molehill and that I should think carefully about what I am saying. 

I told him that he is discrediting my feelings and making it more than it is. I wasn't even going to talk about it. Perhaps in therapy. He apologized but said that if he does what I ask, he won't know anything at all about what I am doing and where I am, and that we'll have separate lives. I asked, do you want separate lives? He said that he'll let me know.

Pretty drastic. I am sincerely hesitant to continue counseling with him, because it really will be a long row to hoe, especially when I think he is too extreme and not listening to me. 

I believe I understand where he's coming from. He wants to feel connected, to not feel worried about my safety. I already tell him about where I'm going and what I'm doing. So when he pushes for even more info, I get my back up. But does he understand where I am coming from?


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## rainbow12

We decided to move forward with this counselor, who made us feel comfortable about the first session and trusting that the future sessions would be equally as productive.

Then she ran into scheduling issues, combined with a health condition (details not revealed to us). Referred us to another counselor. What a bummer.

Interestingly, the therapist she recommended specializes in alcohol addiction. Now we're debating going to her. It's amazing how few couples therapists are taking on new clients. The demand is greater than the supply!


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## angelpixie

rainbow12 said:


> We decided to move forward with this counselor, who made us feel comfortable about the first session and trusting that the future sessions would be equally as productive.
> 
> Then she ran into scheduling issues, combined with a health condition (details not revealed to us). Referred us to another counselor. What a bummer.
> 
> *Interestingly, the therapist she recommended specializes in alcohol addiction.* Now we're debating going to her. It's amazing how few couples therapists are taking on new clients. The demand is greater than the supply!


Having to switch counselors might be a blessing in disguise.


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## rainbow12

Okay, so the referred therapist can't fit us in unless we can meet during working hours. She referred us to another.

See the new one on Tuesday, and she says she can reserve future appointments for us. YAY!! (I guess...)


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## 2galsmom

rainbow12 said:


> We went to our couples counseling, and now I'm trying to decide if I think it is worth it to me to go again.
> 
> I spoke my truth, which I am very happy about.
> 
> The main messages I got from the therapist were: 1) he may feel more loved if I really listen to his gripes, but I don't have to agree with them. Just listen more instead of figuratively saying la la la, I can't hear you!; 2) it may be a deal-breaker that in order for me to feel good in the marriage I need it to be about two individuals that are interdependent versus one soul. My husband wants it to return to the one soul relationship; 3) Adults have conditional love, and we're lucky if our mothers give us unconditional love (my husband needs me to give him unconditional love - as defined by him - although he couldn't explain it except to say that I don't give it to him anymore. I repeated that my conditions are, when forced to address his complaint: that we are not miserable (which we are right now), and that he switches from functioning drunk to full-on drunk (he still takes care of himself, and is pretty physically healthy overall). I have a feeling that his conditions are that I am protesting against all of his unsolicited advice, criticism, judgement - and that I separate from him when he is drinking a lot and exhibiting this behavior.


 mention of Unconditional Love = Red Flag for emotionally abused person

This is how abusers manipulate, to make you feel like YOU are not doing enough to love them. It is your fault, if you are a Christian it will cause guilt and feelings of inadequacy because YOU are not living a life like Christ which will lead to feelings of shame which ends up amounting to EMOTIONAL ABUSE!

God loves you unconditionally right? Correct. BUT God does not love everything you do and does not give you a free pass to lie, manipulate or hurt others.

Your therapist sounds like a nightmare and abusers who don't give a damn about you do not usually change with therapy.

You are not to blame! He does not feel loved because you are not doing something right so he abuses? Unacceptable. You should make him feel more loved so he doesn't abuse?

Therapist you are fired.

I agree other posters, the alcohol and substance abuse must be addressed and removed before you can solve any issues with this person.

Good luck, I hope you find other people who can give you a supportive healthy perspective on helping yourself in "real" life outside of the Internet in addition to this site.


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## Micfhelle

I see him as being the culprit, however much I am trying to acknowledge that I have played the victim role.


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## Omegaa

Hope you wouldn't consider me butting in...

My Dad had alcohol abuse (high functioning alcoholic) and Mother suffered severely from this. Does your h/ or OH, does he have any history of using prostitutes/having affairs? Drink and women seem to go hand in hand.....(though mine does not drink)

Amazing that you're so strong....my best wishes for the positive outcome from this therapy.

It's funny that my h is asking for unconditional love that I should accept him seeing a prostitute. When your h needs unconditional love, he's not taking a responsibility. Mine is the same.

Is it a case of "you two still love each other in some ways though in other ways, you don't love each other"? If so, this is a very unhappy, difficult situation to say the least.


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## TikiKeen

Rainbow, work the steps, then make a decision about staying vs leaving. I bet your approach will feel more solid to you then.

Also, don't be surprised if the therapist refuses to see him if he shows up drunk or buzzed beyond a comfortable (treatable) point. Not having clarity enough to sit through a session without being drunk might indicate to the therapist that treating the drinking has to happen before MC does. Frankly, that might be best any way. His motives, values and decision-making are all impaired.

Did you quit on your own, OP, or via recovery program?

Edited because I missed a page...
Find a therapist who specializes in abuse, for yourself. You can find one at your local domestic violence center, usually for free on on a sliding scale. He wants to be your puppy or child, not your husband, and it looks like he really wants you to change back to catering to his disease and poor behavior. No dice.


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