# Wife messing around while I was overseas - update



## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

I posted the naive beginnings of my story about three weeks ago, link here.

For those of you unfamiliar with it, I have been working contracts overseas in Southwest Asia. I've been married for more than 30 years to a woman of Indian/Pakistani origins.

A little more than two months ago, the wife was contacted by an old "boyfriend" on Facebook. More than 34 years ago this guy (an American) was ostensibly a graduate student instructor and my wife to-be was an undergrad at a foreign university. According to my wife, they had a little romance, which involved kissing and touching, but no sexual contact because she was a virgin at the time. He was also engaged to another woman, so they split. This was something that I gather my wife to-be did not take easily.

So, fast-forward 34 years. She gets married to me and has kids, who are adults now. He marries, divorces, marries again, has kids and an unusual career in the Middle East and Eastern Europe, finally returning home in the last 10 years. 

I'm 55, she's 58, he's 63. Too old for this kind of drama, but it proves we're all still who we were as teenagers.

So this guy contacts my wife on Facebook. She mentioned this to me at the time (I am away working), but about two weeks later her emails begin to make demands for me to "show me love," accusations of infidelity (I have been caught cheating by her in the past), dissatisfaction with our marriage and me being away. This leads up to her telling me the marriage is over.

I am nonplussed by this, although I acknowledge I was not communicating with her to the best of my ability. It was the daily email or two, not the phone calls or Skype video sessions. I do suspect this contact with the guy has precipitated this, which she vehemently denies, because "he is married," among other reasons.

We were planning a vacation in the Mediterranean together in April, and she says I should take it alone. In the midst of this, she gets word that her sister-in-law (brother's wife) is terminally ill in the UK. I email her and propose we go and visit her and take my R&R in the UK. I do not get an answer to this over a weekend. We end up talking by phone and she says she was away consoling a friend whose husband just died. She agrees to go to the UK and we meet there and have a good time, although when she gives me her laptop to show me something, I take the opportunity to look at her Skype and a message from this guy pops up - "I love you." She says she had not met him yet.

Well, shorten a long story, due to the good advice on this board, I end up contacting his wife, then demanding all of her passwords. This leads to a chain of events where I find a whole bunch of stuff out, including a whole chain of emails between them, in an email account she thought was hidden (but cut off when OM sets up special email addresses for the two of them). These are devastating in their intimacy and professions of love, although no sexual talk - but this is before they met. I get his Skype voicemails to her "I love you, I'm missing you" Then the phone and cell phone accounts - about 11 hours on the phone in April (even though she was away in the UK for 9 days), hundreds of texts.

Also emails asking her friend to buy her a "lacy camisole with panties to match" at Victoria's Secret and some of her favorite brand of perfume. This is an urgent mission which has to be completed by Friday (which is the night he is arriving).

She has told a series of lies - they did not meet, they met for coffee once, they met for dinner, they were making out a little in the car, they met twice, but they only had lunch the second time.

I knew from the wireless records (cell towers) that they met the first time in a resort town about 50 miles from our house, which her and I used to go to frequently for romantic weekends away. This was after asking friend to buy the "lacy camisole and panties" at Victoria's Secret. It was also the weekend she told me she was consoling her friend, the grieving widow. 

I just came home yesterday evening (I'm up and can't sleep at 4 am due to time difference and this drama). I'm calm and tell her that I can forgive anything, but I want the truth. She tells me an utterly implausible story that they met, she was in his room and they were "petting" with hand/genital contact only, and she went home (drove 50 miles at night) then drove back to see him again the next day. Then it was that he went down on her, but he stopped her from going down on him because he's "honorable" and that there was no penetration. I get upset at the incredibility of this. Then she acknowledges that she slept though the night with him, but there was nothing more than what she said, she thought he had problems (she was Googling "impotence" and "prostrate problems" the Monday after the first weekend together.)

She admits they met again, after she came back from the UK, and she was again in his room "heavy petting" but no sex. In summary, he made her come by hand and mouth only, but she never helped him to come.

I also have reasons to believe, due to flight schedules and their pattern of communications, that they met two other times, which she denies. This guy easily has the money to have done this.

There was a NC email which was quickly broken, then I made a lot more drama on his end and perhaps now they are not in communication.

What bothers me the most is that she is trying to preserve her initial story that this guy was too "honorable" to have full sex with her (which I took as an implicit contrast with me in my cheating days). It also bothers me that she is trying to minimize what she did as much as she can, in order to preserve a moral advantage over me in future arguments.

I thought we could have it out and we could move on, but I am not buying her story. I am only home for a week. What to do?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Why isn't divorce an option? What she did was disgusting. Have you considered exposing her to the family? The only reason that they might not have had sex is the guy being impotent. Honorable my ass. And she is heavily minimizing what she did.




> She admits they met again, after she came back from the UK, and she was again in his room "heavy petting" but no sex. In summary, he made her come by hand and mouth only, but she never helped him to come.


Disgusting. Take your wife off the pedestal you put her own.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Why isn't divorce an option? What she did was disgusting. Have you considered exposing her to the family? The only reason that they might not have had sex is the guy being impotent. Honorable my ass. And she is heavily minimizing what she did.
> 
> Disgusting. Take your wife off the pedestal you put her own.


She is like Tommy Flanagan, "yeah, that's it . . ." So many lies, and manipulative ones at that "I was consoling a grieving friend.... [how dare you question me] "He's honorable . . . . [not like you, who would f-k a snake in a woodpile]

Still, I am fond enough of her to want to stay married. Plus, I cut her some slack because I played around like Bill Clinton back in the day and she forgave me (sort of).

The other option is divorce, liquidate and move far offshore.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

If you stay married with no changes enjoy the rest of your life with looking over your shoulder.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What is she offering? Does she want the marriage work? Long distance relationships are just part time relationships. It sounds like you weren't interested in taking care of businees until someone else wanted her.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Now she tells me that she saw him get up in the morning after their night together - naked - with a hard-on. 

She still maintains he said "we can wait." I said, if you're going to wait, you don't sleep naked in a bed with a woman. Only Gandhi did that as an exercise in self-denial, and there are doubts about him, too.

This would also contradict the impotence story - when I first asked her about the "impotence" and "prostate problem" Google searches, she said that was for an older lady friend who was talking about her elderly boyfriend. Now I'm not sure she wasn't telling the truth then.

To me, this is all laughable BS, except I'm not laughing.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Have her write down all of the details and tell her you're going make her take a polygraph test.

Seems full of BS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Martin, sounds like the two of you are in an open marriage. To each their own.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

chapparal said:


> What is she offering? Does she want the marriage work? Long distance relationships are just part time relationships. It sounds like you weren't interested in taking care of businees until someone else wanted her.


Yes, my work has been a strain on the relationship. The work is interesting and pays very very well. 

She has also benefited a lot from it in terms of our material condition, housing, money, etc. There have also been long and short breaks, but when this affair of hers started, I had been away for about two months. I also get tired of the conditions I am living under and this affects my mood.

Of course, would I want to quit and come home now to an uncertain marriage, or do I keep working overseas and adopt the full overseas-contractor lifestyle - with a home outside the USA and a younger concubine? No second marriage for me; I have no illusions about what a 25 year old Thai, Peruvian, Ethiopian, Ukrainian, or Uzbek would see in me and would guard myself accordingly. That is not to say that such relationships cannot provide some happiness.



keko said:


> Have her write down all of the details and tell her you're going make her take a polygraph test.
> 
> Seems full of BS.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I might just go for a poly, wonder if I can set one up quickly.



Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Martin, sounds like the two of you are in an open marriage. To each their own.


Not at all; neither of us accept or condone the other's relationships, but in 34 years a lot of stuff happens.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Martin, like Jimmy Carter, you have lust in your heart for other women. Let this one go, and enjoy having sex with your concubines.

You'll be doing yourself and your wife a great favor.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Martin, like Jimmy Carter, you have lust in your heart for other women. Let this one go, and enjoy having sex with your concubines.
> 
> You'll be doing yourself and your wife a great favor.


I was being a bit arch, lighten up. I am sorry that I fail to realize that my musings would offend others' moral sense.

I do know a lot of guys who live that way now after their marriages collapsed, though.

I would prefer to stay with my wife and be faithful, came home with the intention of reconciling, but this story is too much BS for me to take. Especially the "he's honorable and said he could wait until we were divorced" part (even though he was naked in bed with me).


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

If I were you, I would kick her out the next time I hear honorable from her mouth...What is honorable about pursuing a married woman and cheating with her while he himself is married. If he is honorable, what is she? She even offered to have sex with him. Your wife still idolizes him and considers their love that was never meant to be. Good luck with repairing the marriage. She somehow considers this payback for your own indiscretions. There is no love left here.

Have you exposed her to the family? Maybe that is why she is in for R.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> I was being a bit arch, lighten up. I am sorry that I fail to realize that my musings would offend others' moral sense.
> 
> I do know a lot of guys who live that way now after their marriages collapsed, though.
> 
> I would prefer to stay with my wife and be faithful, came home with the intention of reconciling, but this story is too much BS for me to take. Especially the "he's honorable and said he could wait until we were divorced" part (even though he was naked in bed with me).


Considering the kind of wife you have, this wouldn't be a very bad option


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Martin,

There is no honor in either your wife or the OM. 

She had sex with him. doesn't matter if the OM went inside or not. She had sex with him. He had sex with her. 

Her marriage vows have been completely trashed and she did it by choice. She even spent effort in arranging it, and preparing herself for him.

She continues to contact him and lie to you.

You need to expose him publically. I'd start with Cheaterville.com, and then if he has facebook, get on your wife's account and find all his contacts. Use her account to notify each of them about how honorable he is. 

This isn't revenge - this is letting his actions and his honor be publicly displayed.

As for your wife - she continues to defend him over you - she continues to lie to you - she continues to use secret means to contact him.

The affair isn't over by anymeans, it is very much still active. They will be meeting up again at the very next opportunity.

I know you don't want to throw away your marriage, but realize that whatever you did in the past - you are no longer doing it. And that is the difference here. She is still actively in the affair. She has not chosen to stop, instead she has chosen to take it underground.

The minute she has a chance she will be meeting up with him. It might be for an afternoon, or a vacation. Either way, she is choosing him. You being home is only a bit of drama for her to live through, but she will find a way.

Kill the affair before you worry about R. Expose it. Expose her. I know you said before that her cultural background would prevent sex - but that failed. She had sex with him on multiple occasions - even she admits that.

So you need to stop thinking that this is somehow a special case because of culture or age. It's not. It's just another wife cheating.

So you need to follow the basic recipe for killing an affair.

Exposure - make it public to friends and family. Both for your wife and the OM

Cut off money - remove her ability to use family money to support the cheating

Monitor - keylogger on the PC, VAR in cars, GPS tracker on car.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Shes in love with him. As long as she is, you two have no chance of reconciling.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, as for the trip. Cancel it for both of you. The last thing you need to be is spending money right now making her life better, and you need to be home yourself.

Her getting you to go on a trip is just getting you out of the way to keep the affair easier for you.

Now that you're home watch for how she is stepping out to contact him, or using her phone secretly. Have you obtained all passwords to phones, skype, etc? Have you put a keylogger on her PC?

Once the affair is over, and you have a true R, you can talk about a trip together - not before.

btw - has she tried to have sex with you since you returned? I'm guessing not, since she's likely saving herself for the honorable man.

Next time she pulls out the honorable crap repeat this:

An honorable man does not meet up with a married woman for a sex romp. 

An honorable man does not tell a married woman he loves her.

An honorable man does not help a married woman take their affair underground through secret email accounts.

Its quite obvious that nether you (wife) or your partner for cheating are either honorable or understand the meaning of the word.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

The shame is her culture is much greater than what it would be in a Western society. Do you think it is holding her back from leaving you? How do you think her family would react?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

What a crock! What straight guy on earth wakes up with a naked woman in his bed and says "we can wait"? She's married! What the hell is she doing buck naked in bed with another guy? Exactly what part of this equation qualifies her as decent wife material? Kick this heifer to the curb and the sooner, the better. She doesn't even possess trace residue of wife material.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> The shame is her culture is much greater than what it would be in a Western society. Do you think it is holding her back from leaving you? How do you think her family would react?



If they are from India/Pakistan they will kick on her A$$. They are people who values their marriage more than their life.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

She is playing you for such a fool and continues to lie to your face. Please you both need to get tested for STD's. She has no respect for you or your relationship. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

Continue to contact the OM's wife and see a very good attorney to understand your various options. Good luck.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> Not at all; neither of us accept or condone the other's relationships, but in 34 years a lot of stuff happens.


That's a bulls**t answer. My parents have been married 38 years and NOT ONCE did either of them cheat on the other. My dad was a truck driver for 20+ years. He had ample opportunity and he chose to honor his marriage vows. Saying "stuff happens" in 34 years is basically saying you are ok with it! She had sex with him. Doesn't matter if it was vaginal penetration or not. The man touched her there, and she is married to you. They had sex.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Shes in love with him. As long as she is, you two have no chance of reconciling.


We all know the F'd her. We all know that its like my uncle used to say, "just because she wants to play in the hay doesn't mean she want to leave the barn". Martin is 55. He can easily line himself up with hot babes 10-15 or even 20 years younger. Why does he want to stay with this old cougar who cheats on him. I'm 65 and married a younger chick when I was in my late forties. She's in her early fifties. If Martin stays with this broad, when he's my age, she'll be damn near seventy. Seize to opportunity to upgrade Martin.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Martin, you want to stay with her, so do the poly to settle it. Set her down and ask her what does she really want. Then tell her you want to stay, but you will never believe there was no P, NEVER !!, and you know she is just saying that to hold the moral advantage, even tho, sex in any form out side is still cheating. Also if he was so damn honorable, he wouldn't be spending the night with a married woman giving her oral. Now, at this point if she still wants to put him on a pedestal and argue. Just ask her what does she want, and do she want to settle this once an for all, Him or you. If you, Spring the poly and don't back down !!! Tell her you will give her the chance now to come clean, but if the poly show she lied, then, tell her of your relocating plans with lots of YOUNG concubines. Tell her you wants to stay wih her, but you will NEVER accept her professing the POS is honorable knowing they slept together. NEVER!!!!! If she is still resisting letting the moral advan. go, you got your answer. She is more concerned of her an his image, than saving the marriage. Also, remind her of all the lies, and trickle truth as the reason for you not believing.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Martin, you want to stay with her, so do the poly to settle it. Set her down and ask her what does she really want. Then tell her you want to stay, but you will never believe there was no P, NEVER !!, and you know she is just saying that to hold the moral advantage, even tho, sex in any form out side is still cheating. Also if he was so damn honorable, he wouldn't be spending the night with a married woman giving her oral. Now, at this point if she still wants to put him on a pedestal and argue. Just ask her what does she want, and do she want to settle this once an for all, Him or you. If you, Spring the poly and don't back down !!! Tell her you will give her the chance now to come clean, but if the poly show she lied, then, tell her of your relocating plans with lots of YOUNG concubines. Tell her you wants to stay wih her, but you will NEVER accept her professing the POS is honorable knowing they slept together. NEVER!!!!! If she is still resisting letting the moral advan. go, you got your answer. She is more concerned of her an his image, than saving the marriage. Also, remind her of all the lies, and trickle truth as the reason for you not believing.


I read that it is common for a married cheater to claim their married cheating partner is a good and honorable person. 

Why?

Because it's a projection of the way they want to see themselves. 

If they can paint another cheater as good and honorable, then that means they are, too. 

With that said, you make good points in your post.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Martin,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have done a lot I haven't mentioned to expose the affair and created a bit of drama in his life. I think it's disrupted, although I can't be 100% sure. At least they know there will be consequences. Of course they could also be conspiring to kill me - and I think this guy has the skills to do it.

The first thing I did when I got home was to search for a second cellphone, because of the way they were texting and calling all of the time.



warlock07 said:


> The shame is her culture is much greater than what it would be in a Western society. Do you think it is holding her back from leaving you? How do you think her family would react?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a big question, the extent to which shame/propriety and property issues are the only thing holding her back. I don't know.



bandit.45 said:


> Shes in love with him. As long as she is, you two have no chance of reconciling.


The volume of texts and phone calls and the content of their emails (only to March 19, well before they met) speaks to that. But that does not rule out her loving me, too. I'm home to gauge how she feels, the lying is not a good sign.

I don't think she knows how thin the ice she is on with me.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> Martin, you want to stay with her, so do the poly to settle it. Set her down and ask her what does she really want. Then tell her you want to stay, but you will never believe there was no P, NEVER !!, and you know she is just saying that to hold the moral advantage, even tho, sex in any form out side is still cheating. Also if he was so damn honorable, he wouldn't be spending the night with a married woman giving her oral. Now, at this point if she still wants to put him on a pedestal and argue. Just ask her what does she want, and do she want to settle this once an for all, Him or you. If you, Spring the poly and don't back down !!! Tell her you will give her the chance now to come clean, but if the poly show she lied, then, tell her of your relocating plans with lots of YOUNG concubines. Tell her you wants to stay wih her, but you will NEVER accept her professing the POS is honorable knowing they slept together. NEVER!!!!! If she is still resisting letting the moral advan. go, you got your answer. She is more concerned of her an his image, than saving the marriage. Also, remind her of all the lies, and trickle truth as the reason for you not believing.


Yes, you make excellent points, many of which I have pointed out to my wife, but I will stress it the way you are stressing it.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> btw - has she tried to have sex with you since you returned? I'm guessing not, since she's likely saving herself for the honorable man.


We did, on my initiation (I'm deprived), even after our argument about her story. What can I say, I'm weak.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And she was hoping to throw you off the trail. Idiot!!

And when I meant expose, I meant it on her side of the family. Have you discussed this with her? How does she react to the suggestion? Is she remorseful? From what you typed here, she isn't even close to it.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> And she was hoping to throw you off the trail. Idiot!!
> 
> And when I meant expose, I meant it on her side of the family. Have you discussed this with her? How does she react to the suggestion? Is she remorseful? From what you typed here, she isn't even close to it.


She has been quite remorseful, says she is sorry for "leading him on" and "hurting you." Lots of sincere tears in past Skype calls. She feels sad, I am sure there is a mix of things including lost love, some blaming herself for weakness and gullibility (not as much of the latter as I'd like, I think the guy was manipulating her).


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

From your other thread:



Martin12 said:


> Another complication was that she caught me cheating more than once in the past and brings that up often, even though I have been faithful for the last few years.


It would seem from this acknowledgement that your wife may have felt entitled to have her own "revenge affair".


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

morituri said:


> From your other thread:
> 
> 
> 
> It would seem from this acknowledgement that your wife may have felt entitled to have her own "revenge affair".


Yes, I know that, which is why the affair or them having sex is not the main issue.

In the wake of the affair, I told her I now know how much I had hurt her and apologized for my past roamings.

To me, the emotional component of the affair is much worse than if she had a couple of bonks. While not devoid of emotion and affection, my affairs were a much smaller part of my life while they were going on - more like a two-hour tryst once or twice a week, not texts, emails, skype, or phone calls every fifteen minutes.

The main issue is her lying to paint him as "honorable" and herself still unpenetrated by others to maintain a moral advantage in future discussions (arguments).


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

You may want to invest in camera's around the house(connected to internet) and a GPS for her car, if you think she may stray again.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> She has been quite remorseful, says she is sorry for "leading him on" and "hurting you." Lots of sincere tears in past Skype calls. She feels sad, I am sure there is a mix of things including lost love, some blaming herself for weakness and gullibility (not as much of the latter as I'd like, I think the guy was manipulating her).


Don't fall for the temptation of blaming the OM for manipulating her. She is not a naive teenage girl


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> She has been quite remorseful, says she is sorry for "leading him on" and "hurting you." Lots of sincere tears in past Skype calls. She feels sad, I am sure there is a mix of things including lost love, some blaming herself for weakness and gullibility (not as much of the latter as I'd like, I think the guy was manipulating her).


Oh my freaking gawd!! Martin, I give up. There's no hope for you.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Oh my freaking gawd!! Martin, I give up. There's no hope for you.


There's no hope for any of us.

What would you do? The possibility of reconciliation requires some sort of understanding and forgiveness. 

She's sorry, for what I'm not totally sure, but she's sorry.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> There's no hope for any of us.
> 
> What would you do? The possibility of reconciliation requires some sort of understanding and forgiveness.
> 
> *She's sorry, for what I'm not totally sure, but she's sorry.*


And THAT is why Count says there's no hope. She says she's sorry, and you appear to be taking her at her word. She's changing her story constantly. And while the possibility of reconciliation does require some understanding and forgiveness, it doesn't magically happen right away. And you are exhibiting signs of just sweeping it under the rug, from what I am seeing in your posts.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> And THAT is why Count says there's no hope. She says she's sorry, and you appear to be taking her at her word. She's changing her story constantly. And while the possibility of reconciliation does require some understanding and forgiveness, it doesn't magically happen right away. And you are exhibiting signs of just sweeping it under the rug, from what I am seeing in your posts.


For a lot of reasons, it's tough for her, even to admit to herself what she did.

One reason for "trickle-truth" is for the cheating spouse to gauge the other spouse's reaction to revelations; it feels safer to go bit by bit and see what happens at each step rather than unload it all at one time. It would be natural to hold back as much as possible, too. 

I am just looking for some basic truth, I know I'll never get the whole truth.

I am not happy about it, but I understand the dynamic.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> There's no hope for any of us.
> 
> What would you do? The possibility of reconciliation requires some sort of understanding and forgiveness.
> 
> She's sorry, for what I'm not totally sure, but she's sorry.


No she isn't sorry she cheated, if she was she would stop lying, stop defending him, and stop the affair.
she is sorry she got caught.

You need to learn the difference.

He has clearly coached her on hiding things like burner phones. Guess who has done ths before?

Does she say she wants to R? If so schedule the polygraph today. Then get her to it on their first opening. This will help uncover the lies. Your goals are to find out what has really gone on, AND what is still going on.

Right now the only truth you know is that she continues to lie.

As for sex, ask her how the OM would feel about her hus woman having sex with you? Look at here yes and face when you ask this, and ask it very calmly. Watch for her feeling shame at betraying her honorable man. Cause it is still going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> For a lot of reasons, it's tough for her, even to admit to herself what she did.
> 
> One reason for "trickle-truth" is for the cheating spouse to gauge the other spouse's reaction to revelations; it feels safer to go bit by bit and see what happens at each step rather than unload it all at one time. It would be natural to hold back as much as possible, too.
> 
> ...


Another reason for the TT is to not betray the privacy of her relationship with the OM, and to preserve her loyalty to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Tell us, Martin, what if she cheats in future? How sure are you that she wont?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Martin12 said:


> For a lot of reasons, it's tough for her, even to admit to herself what she did.
> 
> One reason for "trickle-truth" is for the cheating spouse to gauge the other spouse's reaction to revelations; it feels safer to go bit by bit and see what happens at each step rather than unload it all at one time. It would be natural to hold back as much as possible, too.
> 
> ...


Trickle truth isn't truth, at least not the sort of truth I require from a wife. She's sorry she "led him on"? She was buck naked in the man's bed! That's not teasing or flirting. That's jumping another man's bones. If I wouldn't kick her out for the affair, I'd kick her out for thinking I'm idiot enough to believe her fairytale.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

My guess that the real reason you do not wish to have a polygraph done is that you really don't want the truth. The comments that she makes to you implies that she thinks you are an absolute idiot.

I am sorry that you are rug sweeping. I think she does indeed know why she is sorry.......she is sorry that she got caught and cannot continue the affair. The OM is so honorable that he had no problem screwing a married woman behind her husband's back. I am sorry Martin that you continue to be disrespected and humiliated by her.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Martin, is it remorse from your past serial cheating that is keeping you from putting your foot down? If it is, then you consider that *she chose* to reconcile with you after she found out about your affairs and thus made it plain that she wanted to continue being married to you. This decision of hers doesn't give her a free pass to have an affair of her own and now that she has, it doesn't mean that you should automatically give her a chance to reconcile IF it is a deal breaker for you. Make the poly a non-negotiable condition for you to continue the marriage.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Well, I had her swear by God and on the Quran that she was telling the truth, which I think is the equivalent of a poly for her.

She stuck to her story that there was no penetration because he was reluctant to do it before the divorce. Maybe the guy was having a herpes outbreak and was scared of infecting her.

She said that if she had gone all of the way, she would not have turned back out of guilt about it, if nothing else.

I thought about a poly, but really; when you're going to hook your spouse to an electronic device of dubious value and have a stranger question her about her sex life, isn't the marriage over at that point?

Apart from that, we're having lots of passionate sex.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> She said that if she had gone all of the way, she would not have turned back out of guilt about it, if nothing else.


Why is it different after you found about it?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> *Well, I had her swear by God and on the Quran that she was telling the truth, which I think is the equivalent of a poly for her.*
> 
> She stuck to her story that there was no penetration because he was reluctant to do it before the divorce. Maybe the guy was having a herpes outbreak and was scared of infecting her.
> 
> ...


Unfooking believable. Did she not swear before god to be faithful when she married you? She's a human being with human frailties. When you started this thread, you were certain that her culture would prevent her from cheating. And look where that got you.

She was naked in bed with a man that wasn't her husband and you think swearing on the Koran is the equivalent of a polygraph? GET REAL!!

I give up. I'll no longer be responding to your thread.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, Quran advocates death for adultery. Not sure how much seriously she takes it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you are missing the point Martin.

SHe chose to prepare herself, to offer herself, and to sleep naked in bed with another man. She proclaimed her love for him. She gave her self to him.

The fact a particular appendage didn't poke into a body section is irrelevant. And according to her story, it was only because he refused her. She on the other freely gave herself to him.

They had sex. By your current thinking, if a guy doesn't penetrate it isn't sex ?

Your looking for an out surrounding the physical acts that took place when they did have sex, but you are ignoring the betrayal and willingly giving herself to him repeatedly, and lying to you.

Nothing you've done so far has imposed any consequences for her, and nothing you have done has given her any reason to stop doing it with him as soon as she can.

The wolf is still at the door, and the woman of the house is still wanting to willingly choose to open the door and let him in.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Unfooking believable. Did she not swear before god to be faithful when she married you? She's a human being with human frailties. When you started this thread, you were certain that her culture would prevent her from cheating. And look where that got you.
> 
> She was naked in bed with a man that wasn't her husband and you think swearing on the Koran is the equivalent of a polygraph? GET REAL!!
> 
> I give up. I'll no longer be responding to your thread.


Minor point, she says she wasn't naked (I know, wearing a night gown isn't much different), he was.

I know, I know, you're right, it still sounds unlikely if not outright incredible, but there are possible reasons for it, including herpes, some weird denial strategy, his slow sexual response at age 63, and her possible reluctance.

In any event, I thank you and others for the advice you gave
at the beginning to disrupt the affair.

I have to make judgments. The judgments are based mostly on things which are impossible to convey on a message board, particularly her responses to me now. 

Is the affair over? I think yes, because of the disruption and drama you all helped me to bring. 

I see this as a Perfect Storm brought about by a combination of factors including my absence, my lack of communication, my past sins, and Facebook bringing the old boyfriend back into her life at precisely the wrong moment. The storm has passed.

Either I forgive her or I don't; what else can I do now?


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Why is it different after you found about it?


This speaks to the difficulty of reading another person's thoughts, even if you've been married to her for more than 30 years. I do think f-king another guy would be a big step for her.

I also don't doubt she was ready to take that step, which is hurtful and significant - her story is that he stopped her. Incredible? Yes. Impossible? No.



Shaggy said:


> I think you are missing the point Martin.
> 
> SHe chose to prepare herself, to offer herself, and to sleep naked in bed with another man. She proclaimed her love for him. She gave her self to him.
> 
> ...


Yes, she did have sex. She was willing to f-k him. She prepared to f-k him, bought a nightgown. I know it was a betrayal. In that regard, the details don't matter.

There have been consequences - lots of drama and tears. 

I think the wolf's been driven off. If the wolf comes back, then it's over.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> The storm has passed.
> 
> Either I forgive her or I don't; what else can I do now?


No, it's not that simple as forgive or don't forgive, because that leaves things right back where they were when you last left before the affair.

Please read the sticky in this section it contains suggestions on dealing with after the affair.

Consequences are not punishments - they are actions put in place to deal with the affair and to ensure it remains over.

consequences such as surrendering passwords etc. No locked phones, compete transparency and accountability.

no more trips alone to "visit" friends.

She has to re-earn your trust. She betrayed it easily and willingly. 

And for you:

Trust - BUT - verify. 

you need to have checks in place to ensure that this doesn't continue on. Things like getting a keylogger/var/gps tracker in place.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> There have been consequences - lots of drama and tears.
> 
> I think the wolf's been driven off. If the wolf comes back, then it's over.


Drama and tears are not consequences - they are theatre.

The wolf isn't gone. He knows there is a willing piglet in the house and he will come back to see if he can get in. It's the nature of the wolf.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

As stated previously, the Quran advocates death for committing adultery. She committed adultery and you believe her because she swore on the Quran? What is wrong with this picture? Have the both of you get tested for STD's and especially herpes.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Martin12, there are spouses who will lie no matter what Holy book you put in front of them. Yes the polygraph test is not 100% reliable - neither is a human being - but the simple act of being forced to take one is often sufficient enough for an unfaithful spouse to tell the whole truth before he/she submits to one. The polygraph machine, unlike a live human being, has no agenda because it is an object. So when it comes to believing a human being and a polygraph machine, my bet is on the machine.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I think Martin feels he is just getting his payback from his past actions. I hope it works out for him. 

Good luck Martin


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I agree, just like cantrusthim is for having an affair on her first husband 28 years ago. They are both making penance for their infidelities.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

When both people end up cheating it usually ends up a p!ssing contest on who hurt who more. I wish OP the best of luck....he's going to need it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> When both people end up cheating it usually ends up a p!ssing contest on who hurt who more. I wish OP the best of luck....he's going to need it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spot on, we were just running though that issue - my series of hounddog-like affairs with no future plans or promises being made vs. her deep emotional connection with this guy and their conspiracy to divorce their spouses and ride off together happily ever after.

This might be the toughest issue.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> Spot on, we were just running though that issue - my series of hounddog-like affairs with no future plans or promises being made vs. her deep emotional connection with this guy and their conspiracy to divorce their spouses and ride off together happily ever after.
> 
> This might be the toughest issue.


And this is why handing out forgiveness quickly actually does deal with the real issues at hand.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> Well, I had her swear by God and on the Quran that she was telling the truth,


Is laying naked next to another man and getting fingered not adultery? Aren't cheaters stoned to death in muslim countries? Seems like she doesn't even know her religion much to swear on it.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> She admits they met again, after she came back from the UK, and she was again in his room "heavy petting" but no sex. In summary, he made her come by hand and mouth only, but she never helped him to come.


 Stop saying that there was "no sex". Even if you believe her that they did not have intercourse (which I do not), making her come by mouth is sex; heck it is even called "oral sex". Using your wife's faulty logic (and Bill Clinton's) that you have to have intercourse for there to be sex, then gay people live sexless lives since they cannot have intercourse with each other. Stop the bull and call what she is admitting to sex. Also, tell your wife that there is nothing honorable about the other man (OM) making her come in his mouth as he has oral sex with her.


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## vickyyy (Oct 28, 2011)

hopelesssss


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Here is a test. Inform your wife you are going out to pickup a girl and do only what she claims to have done. 

Pretty sure your wife will view that a sex and cheating. 

If she diednt then hey do it in front of her since it ain't sex and it ain't cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> She is like Tommy Flanagan, "yeah, that's it . . ." So many lies, and manipulative ones at that "I was consoling a grieving friend.... [how dare you question me] "He's honorable . . . . [not like you, who would f-k a snake in a woodpile]
> 
> Still, I am fond enough of her to want to stay married. Plus, I cut her some slack because I played around like Bill Clinton back in the day and she forgave me (sort of).
> 
> The other option is divorce, liquidate and move far offshore.


If he was so honorable, why is she sleeping with him, being "heavy petted"? Why is she still degrading you (over him I might add-continiously!!) when she is doing the same thing. 

She has not forgiven you, she will continue to do whatever she wants behind your back, and when you find out, she will justify her actions by you Bill Clinton inpersonation.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

We spent the whole day talking about this. We looked at it from every angle. It was a Perfect Storm of the wrong guy at the wrong time. 

We recommitted to each other. We now both know the consequences of cheating and neglect. She's not going to have any contact with this guy and will tell me if he contacts her.


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Wish you all the best Martin, glad to hear you are content with your discussions and understanding in R.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Martin12 said:


> We spent the whole day talking about this. We looked at it from every angle. It was a Perfect Storm of the wrong guy at the wrong time.
> 
> We recommitted to each other. We now both know the consequences of cheating and neglect. She's not going to have any contact with this guy and will tell me if he contacts her.


Martin,

How will you know? Last time she conspired to keep you in the dark and meet up with him. 

At this point she is now a more experience liar and cheat. So you really really need to take steps to have covert ways to verify no contact.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> It was a Perfect Storm of the wrong guy at the wrong time.


Sounds to me like she's a bit of a tornado chaser that went looking for a storm.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It would be great if the threads were cataloged and you could just point the OP to all the threads where the WS just took it underground. According to the cheaters website it is easy to do and make a fool out of the BS.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

chapparal said:


> It would be great if the threads were cataloged and you could just point the OP to all the threads where the WS just took it underground. According to the cheaters website it is easy to do and make a fool out of the BS.


Perhaps we should be as a group making some strategic visits to the cheaters support web sites to make some suggestions that don't really help?

such as "hey, make sure you use phone XXXX, since it's texts can't be recovered. And avoid iphones and application YYYY since the BS know how to unlock those"?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I've been considering going there and running a disinformation campaign. They accuse people of being trolls too. One got flamed the other day because she criticized how badly a cheating b!tch was treating her huaband. There have been some really good comments there surprisingly although I have only checked them out a few times. I would like to get on there and stress how the men in the affairs are only in the affair for one thing. ROTFLMAO


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> We spent the whole day talking about this. We looked at it from every angle. It was a Perfect Storm of the wrong guy at the wrong time.
> 
> We recommitted to each other. We now both know the consequences of cheating and neglect. She's not going to have any contact with this guy and will tell me if he contacts her.


Dear Martin,

Please grow a pair. Take note that people will treat you as you wish to be treated and how you behave. Right now, you're behaving like a fool. The motto of cheaters is "deny, deny, deny". I suggest that you take a look at a forum for cheaters such as doccool.com


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Thats a very eye opening site, becareful its big time trigger.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> Thats a very eye opening site, becareful its big time trigger.


Indeed. But it's better to be aware what betrayed spouses are really dealing with. About 90% of the cheaters there are repeat offenders. We can clearly see a pattern of narcism with most of them. They actually find cheating on their spouses extremelly arousing and it's got all the indication of being a secret lifestyle similar to a drug addiction. Dday means nothing to these people.... They just go further underground and pride themselves of being expert liars and manipulators. What's really bizarre is that there are some OWs who only are attracted to married men and thus only consider love in such a relationship.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

ilgitano said:


> Dear Martin,
> 
> Please grow a pair. Take note that people will treat you as you wish to be treated and how you behave. Right now, you're behaving like a fool. The motto of cheaters is "deny, deny, deny". I suggest that you take a look at a forum for cheaters such as doccool.com


Here is one of their polls:

Polls 


Do you Feel Guilt Over Your Affair?

Nope, I don't lose sleep over it. (69%, 2,660 Votes)

Yes, it tears me up. (31%, 1,200 Votes)


Total Voters: 3,853

Vote


I truly feel for people that are so pathetic.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

I hear everybody, but first I have more information that you all, and second, what can I do but trust?

I have more information because I don't disclose everything on this board, and can't convey emotional nuances in conversations with my wife. One thing I can disclose is that I disrupted OM's life to a significant degree, and thus also showed that my wife is not a reliable, secure AP. Thus, I hope that he will not want to resume the affair, because he can't trust my wife to maintain security.

Second, I am going back overseas and I can't place VARs, do surveillance and the like. In the end, if she wants to go with the OM, I will find out pretty soon and pursue Plan B - divorce, liquidate and move offshore. I recognize it's her choice. Right now, she says she chooses me.

I am going to consult with a divorce lawyer before I go back overseas, so that I will have someone on standby if something happens.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

why wait for her to take initiative???

You already know what you need to know.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Don't fall for the temptation of blaming the OM for manipulating her. She is not a naive teenage girl


I agree. This is likely bull. 

My cheater husband's OW claimed the same thing to her husband when outed. She claimed my husband was the aggressor and she also lied about having sex. She claimed they did not. The dopey husband believes her. 

I however, have emails and texts that prove she was the aggressor. In fact she was extremely pushy and aggressive. 

That's not an excuse for my cheater husband though. He could have cut off contact with her immediately. He did not.

Still, the emails show he tried to back away several times, but she was manipulative, and was talking like a porn star and pushing pushing pushing for sex until she got it. 

She acts like an innocent victim though. 

BTW: She prior had a year long affair, based not he emails, and has had several sexual encounters in her van while out SUPPOSEDLY with the girls.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

chapparal said:


> I've been considering going there and running a disinformation campaign. They accuse people of being trolls too. One got flamed the other day because she criticized how badly a cheating b!tch was treating her huaband. There have been some really good comments there surprisingly although I have only checked them out a few times. I would like to get on there and stress how the men in the affairs are only in the affair for one thing. ROTFLMAO


I think I'm going to start having some fun next week!

Definitely going to hot girl this time around, do much more opportunity to manipulate the cheaters If they think you are one of them 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Martin,

If I point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger, I have the mind of a murderer. She hopped into bed with the guy with the full intention of committing adultary and if they didn't have full intercourse, it's only because the other guy was worried about an STD. She was more than ready, more than willing. Whatever penalty exists for adultary in the Quaran, it didn't slow her down.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Martin,
> 
> If I point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger, I have the mind of a murderer. She hopped into bed with the guy with the full intention of committing adultary and if they didn't have full intercourse, it's only because the other guy was worried about an STD. She was more than ready, more than willing. Whatever penalty exists for adultary in the Quaran, it didn't slow her down.


I know she was more than willing, she told me. 

The old Islamic law penalties for adultery don't operate in her mind much, anymore than the ones in the Old Testament do in ours, though: she's basically from the UK, the family moved there when she was 2. We're not living in Saudi Arabia or Iran either.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Well Martin, I have to say.... you have a very interesting way of living your life.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Martin good luck to you, because I believe you will be needing it.

I do recommend that before you leave the country again, to meet with a lawyer and have your D papers drawn up. that way you will be able to have her served from where you are when she does it again.

Also secure copies of important records offsite from your home.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Martin good luck to you, because I believe you will be needing it.
> 
> I do recommend that before you leave the country again, to meet with a lawyer and have your D papers drawn up. that way you will be able to have her served from where you are when she does it again.
> 
> Also secure copies of important records offsite from your home.


I am meeting with a lawyer for contingency planning. Wife knows this. I won't go so far as have a divorce complaint drawn up, that can be done quickly enough. I just want to make personal contact with a lawyer before I leave the USA, so if I call . . . 



bandit.45 said:


> Well Martin, I have to say.... you have a very interesting way of living your life.


Yes, too interesting. I can't convey the half of it.

I made a decision to reconcile, as she did after she caught me, more than once, years ago. Either I divorce or I don't, either I quit my job and stay home or I don't. 

Since I've made the decision to both reconcile and keep working , there's not much else I can do. 90% of what we have is not liquid, so it's not like she can rip me off and run away.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Maybe even have a PI spot check her from time to time while you are away.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I must say I like the way you are handling all this.


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## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Martin12 said:


> I know she was more than willing, she told me.
> 
> The old Islamic law penalties for adultery don't operate in her mind much, anymore than the ones in the Old Testament do in ours, though: she's basically from the UK, the family moved there when she was 2. We're not living in Saudi Arabia or Iran either.


the whole time you were defending her background and she is from the UK???????? :scratchhead:


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

Humble Pie said:


> the whole time you were defending her background and she is from the UK???????? :scratchhead:


The Indo/Pak Muslim community in the UK is not the same as the English. There are a lot of social, religious, and family constraints on sexual behavior. It is a bit more liberal than actually being raised in Pakistan, true.


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## Kamila (May 20, 2012)

What you don't know is that she make a good living. She doesn't need Martin's money! She needed his loyalty and love. She can afford to travel anywhere she wants without a penny from him.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And you are? When does having money stopped cleaning out your spouse in bitter divorces?


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## Kamila (May 20, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> And you are? When does having money stopped cleaning out your spouse in bitter divorces?


why would it be bitter? both cheated - let it be amincable. 50/50 and wish each other luck What does bitterness do to your mental health? Keep more money in your pockets, not the lawyers!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You totally missed my point..I said things like this happen in bitter divorces. And their relation could go bitter after they decide to divorce for multiple reasons. I was stating a possibility.

Are you Martin's wife?


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You totally missed my point..I said things like this happen in bitter divorces. And their relation could go bitter after they decide to divorce for multiple reasons. I was stating a possibility.
> 
> Are you Martin's wife?


Yeah, it's her. She could not restrain herself from commenting on her own thread. 

I am back in southwest Asia after a grueling 2 day and night trip back.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Funny how she refers to herself in 3rd person. How are things Martin? Any chance that she might go underground?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Now that she is here, she'll know every tactic to screw around without you ever knowing about it.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Funny how she refers to herself in 3rd person. How are things Martin? Any chance that she might go underground?


I am fine, we are reconciling, it is a process. A lot of the lies she told me are still hurting.

Of course she could take it underground, I don't think she will. I also think OM might be a little reluctant because of my interventions with him and his family.



keko said:


> Now that she is here, she'll know every tactic to screw around without you ever knowing about it.


Yeah, my mistake, but I wanted to share with her in the process of getting back together. She really doesn't need much advice, since I'm about 6000 miles away my ability to watch her is limited.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

So kamila, what exactly did you do with your lover?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

:slap:


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :slap:


I'm with him :iagree:


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## Kamila (May 20, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You totally missed my point..I said things like this happen in bitter divorces. And their relation could go bitter after they decide to divorce for multiple reasons. I was stating a possibility.
> 
> Are you Martin's wife?


Yes, i am. I thought it was obvious.


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## Kamila (May 20, 2012)

keko said:


> So kamila, what exactly did you do with your lover?


Sorry Keko, I am not under any obligation to discuss the details with you. I am not happy that he gave you all the details. But i will say there is no reason for me now to go underground. It's either i stay or leave and i chose to stay. I am an adult and no one can force me to do anything that I am not happy with.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Woa, Martin, based on your wife's posts she certainly seems to have no remorse at all, in fact I'd say defiance and attitude is more like it.

Well at least you had this last visit with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Woa, Martin, based on your wife's posts she certainly seems to have no remorse at all, in fact I'd say defiance and attitude is more like it.
> 
> Well at least you had this last visit with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not everyone is comfortable sharing their private life online. We have accept that. She is responsible for Martin, not us.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Not everyone is comfortable sharing their private life online. We have accept that. She is responsible for Martin, not us.


That is very true and I can understand that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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