# I Don't Believe in High Drive/Low Drive



## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

I read here all the time about HD and LD being stuck with each other or why they shouldn't be. 

I don't believe the idea that there's some kind of baseline libido we all have. I think of it more like hunger. There's not a baseline. It's in constant flux. there are always things affecting it. Our (boith men's and women's) hormone levels are constantly changing. Every day. Our situation with out loved ones changes every day. We receive new stimuli every day. More emotional baggage piles up every day. We meet new people every day.

Sometimes we maintain a higher/lower libido for days, months or years. Sometimes it comes and goes in a night. But I believe there's always a reason. 

Like others here I use the terms HD/LD but I generally mean during some extended peiod, and I believe there's always something that can be done about it, or at the very least a reason that can be discovered. And I believe the right combination of physical & emotional stimuli, and helpful changes in body chemistry can help _almost_ anyone.

Thoughts?


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Drover said:


> I read here all the time about HD and LD being stuck with each other or why they shouldn't be.
> 
> I don't believe the idea that there's some kind of baseline libido we all have. I think of it more like hunger. There's not a baseline. It's in constant flux. there are always things affecting it. Our (boith men's and women's) hormone levels are constantly changing. Every day. Our situation with out loved ones changes every day. We receive new stimuli every day. More emotional baggage piles up every day. We meet new people every day.
> 
> ...


I agree!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Drover said:


> I read here all the time about HD and LD being stuck with each other or why they shouldn't be.
> 
> I don't believe the idea that there's some kind of baseline libido we all have. I think of it more like hunger. There's not a baseline. It's in constant flux. there are always things affecting it. Our (boith men's and women's) hormone levels are constantly changing. Every day. Our situation with out loved ones changes every day. We receive new stimuli every day. More emotional baggage piles up every day. We meet new people every day.
> 
> ...


I disagree!


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Let me be less flippant. I can't imagine anything changing my baseline libido. I"ve never been able to do once or more a day. I"ve always wanted about three times per week. The only exceptions have been when I"ve been ill or absolutely buried in work. Otherwise it's been the same for 40 years.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Drover said:


> I read here all the time about HD and LD being stuck with each other or why they shouldn't be.
> 
> I don't believe the idea that there's some kind of baseline libido we all have. I think of it more like hunger. There's not a baseline. It's in constant flux. there are always things affecting it. Our (boith men's and women's) hormone levels are constantly changing. Every day. Our situation with out loved ones changes every day. We receive new stimuli every day. More emotional baggage piles up every day. We meet new people every day.
> 
> ...


I agree and I think that most people who post here know that one's drive can fluctuate. 

Some people do tend to be at some particular level for a very long time. For example I’ve always been high drive. The only time that this might not have been true is the 6 month period after the end of a very bad pregnancy from which I came very close to dying.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I can only assume that someone who has never been in a sexually mismatched relationship would believe this.


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

I think some people are into sex more than others. 

I think that some people want or need sex more frequently than others.

I think that if two people are mostly on the same page when it comes to sex at the start of the relationship, but months or years down the road one of them doesn't want it so much anymore that the old HD LD thing doesn't apply. At all.


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## NewHubs (Dec 23, 2012)

totamm said:


> I think some people are into sex more than others.
> 
> I think that some people want or need sex more frequently than others.
> 
> I think that if two people are mostly on the same page when it comes to sex at the start of the relationship, but months or years down the road one of them doesn't want it so much anymore that the old HD LD thing doesn't apply. At all.


Couldn't have said it better
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I agree with OP. I also don't believe in sex addiction. I equate it to oxygen addiction.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I had always thought that our drives were not matched. I seemed to think about sex all of the time and it seemed like my wife rarely did. Then I began to do some reading and discovered that it is more that our desire is manifested differently. Here is a great article on this:

Do You Understand Female Sexual Desire? | Psychology Today

This explains the fact that my wife can start sex rather no-hum, like she could take it or leave it. However, once we get started, she gets warmer, then hot having a great orgasm. She has even realized this about herself so she will go ahead knowing that a great orgasm will usually follow.

So for us, it is not LD HD it is that our drives are just different.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I hope everyone reads that. So tired of husbands complaining that their wives don't want to have sex, then come to discover they've done nothing to get their wives thinking about sex until she was already laying down!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think maybe it's the person you're with. Attraction wise.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I can only assume that someone who has never been in a sexually mismatched relationship would believe this.


Amen Cletus
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Nope, I don't buy it. 

Few men have my drive, no matter who they are with. They could be paired with a drop dead gorgeous woman who never says no. But then how often would they want it, really? 

Go on, throw out your number in that circumstance. How about after a decade? How about after two?


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I hope everyone reads that. So tired of husbands complaining that their wives don't want to have sex, then come to discover they've done nothing to get their wives thinking about sex until she was already laying down!


What is wrong with husbands wanting their wives to want to have sex with them. I believe that's part of the marriage vows. The way you put it, it is as if wives are given the rights to "I will have sex to you only after you can get me to want to have sex with you".

I think a good marriage must start with honesty. "I want to please my wife/husband and satisfy his/her sexual needs". Not "I will have sex only if he/she is able to persuade me to want sex", that is simply too much favoring LD people. Not fair. And I am LD myself.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My sexual drive has always been very steady throughout my life.. I had to have it at least once a week till I hit my 40's, it would build in me and I was going to get it - I was never left hanging, so I didn't realize how a man with a higher drive felt until HE couldn't keep up with me. 

I feel "Sex addiction" IS real... I spent time on a forum about that... and WOW.. some of those people/ their stories... each story so different ...but a common theme in many ...and some of these might even be more NUMB to the pleasure ....was to fill a VOID in their lives using sex... but no matter how much sex they had... they were still empty inside.. because without the emotional attachment to it... it can not fulfill in the way it was intended, some can become Chronic masterbaters, obsessed with Porn.

Really, can't anything be addictive ? Even this forum! Anything that interferes with your normal daily life, family, friends... if you have lost control & discipline over it...that's what I call an addiction. 

Me & my husband's drives are NOT high anymore (his was higher in his younger years as normal - mine was higher in my early 40's)... we could go DAYS without it and not feel physical LUST.... but we don't want to ~ we enjoy "working it up" ...and that's the beauty of it...that we want to be in each others arms and GO THERE ..over & over & over & somehow it never grows old..... now we are more driven by the "Emotional Connection". 

I feel many have lost their desire somewhere in the form of "*resentment*" .....this always pays a price in free flowing intimacy....many need to start here... to revive what once was.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> I hope everyone reads that. So tired of husbands complaining that their wives don't want to have sex, then come to discover they've done nothing to get their wives thinking about sex until she was already laying down!





john_lord_b3 said:


> What is wrong with husbands wanting their wives to want to have sex with them. I believe that's part of the marriage vows. The way you put it, it is as if wives are given the rights to "I will have sex to you only after you can get me to want to have sex with you".
> 
> I think a good marriage must start with honesty. "I want to please my wife/husband and satisfy his/her sexual needs". Not "I will have sex only if he/she is able to persuade me to want sex", that is simply too much favoring LD people. Not fair. And I am LD myself.


An example of what Anon Pink is talking about is a husband who spends no time with his wife, does not say much nice to her and not does not do anything in bed to please her sexually. But then he expects her to have sex with him when he wants it. And yes husband like this exist. I’ve known of some. Being treated like this makes a woman not want sex with their spouse. It would make a man not want sex with their spouse if she treated him like this.


.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I can only assume that someone who has never been in a sexually mismatched relationship would believe this.



This :iagree:


There are men and women that have low sex drives due to lowering testosterone and hormone levels, which can be addressed with meds.

People get very fat / obese due to lack of exercise and a healthy diet.

The LD spouse always gets their way in the end, meaning, HD spouse gets little to no sex in the end and they're miserable, leading to affairs and even divorces.

When you get married, you are to meet your other halves needs and that means physically, sexually as well and not just emotionally.

How many posts would we have here if only LD couples and HD couples got married?!

To love sex is one thing, but to be addicted to sex would mean you can't go without thinking and wanting sex in less than 24 hours every day.

Whether I spend a lot of time with my wifee or I leave her be, doesn't make a huge difference in her sex drive. Same with randomly buying her flowers, romantic cards, surprise suppers before she gets home, cuddling on the couch, sex aspect doesn't increase much at all, but she is much more emotionally secure and happy with me. No sex drive increase though, unless I initiate.

If I met a model type of a woman, hot, and she honestly wanted sex every day, DONE!!!! Even if it was to please me somewhat more than herself, she would get a lot of cuddling, emotional support, flowers, back and foot rubs, walks to the beach, talking and listening to her days, you name it, unconditional.

You can read many books on how to please women, do what they'd like, etc., but the sex drive still won't increase much.

I think its more how the ladies were raised, learned and taught about sex, liberal or ultra conservative, and the experiences they had with other guys before they met you. If they're in great shape, they can wear those sexy outfits but if they're large, not so much and insecure.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

jaharthur said:


> Let me be less flippant. I can't imagine anything changing my baseline libido. I"ve never been able to do once or more a day. I"ve always wanted about three times per week. The only exceptions have been when I"ve been ill or absolutely buried in work. Otherwise it's been the same for 40 years.


We may not be able to choose or change whether we are HD/LD but that Drive or Desire is not a "need" and can be controlled. There are times when we can and must over ride our desire to fit the reality in which we live. Alough I was out of the military before I married I have still had to spend periods (4 weeks in the UAE) away from home through work, Health problems do effect us or our partners, family comitments may nesesitate inforced seperations.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

john_lord_b3 said:


> What is wrong with husbands wanting their wives to want to have sex with them. I believe that's part of the marriage vows. The way you put it, it is as if wives are given the rights to "I will have sex to you only after you can get me to want to have sex with you".
> 
> I think a good marriage must start with honesty. "I want to please my wife/husband and satisfy his/her sexual needs". Not "I will have sex only if he/she is able to persuade me to want sex", that is simply too much favoring LD people. Not fair. And I am LD myself.


I agree with you in part. However too many men forget the things they did before marriage to get her to fall in love with them. Generally speaking, men and women are different. I have read countless articles explaining that men need sex to feel intimate whereas women need to feel intimate before wanting sex. We forget, men, that many women desire much non-sexual affection. We forget, men, that women want us to romance them. I also think we need to discover her love language. For instance, if I got my wife a gift or sent flowers for V day, she would think, "Oh that was nice." But one of the things I am doing for V day is finishing a remodeling project at home which will speak to her "acts of service" love language. I'll probably get laid for that!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Drover said:


> I read here all the time about HD and LD being stuck with each other or why they shouldn't be.
> 
> I don't believe the idea that there's some kind of baseline libido we all have. I think of it more like hunger. There's not a baseline. It's in constant flux. there are always things affecting it. Our (boith men's and women's) hormone levels are constantly changing. Every day. Our situation with out loved ones changes every day. We receive new stimuli every day. More emotional baggage piles up every day. We meet new people every day.
> 
> ...


The number of men and women who every day show up on this forum, and many others like it, seeking ways to get an ounce sexual affection from their partner or spouse after they have exhausted all avenues they themselves could think of beg to differ strongly with your views.

To me, any relationship that has one spouse with a higher libido/sexual desire than the other is an HD/LD. Even which partner is HD and which is LD can switch several times in the relationship, but I'd wager 99% of marriages have one spouse with a higher libido than the other.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> An example of what Anon Pink is talking about is a husband who spends no time with his wife, does not say much nice to her and not does not do anything in bed to please her sexually. But then he expects her to have sex with him when he wants it. And yes husband like this exist. I’ve known of some. Being treated like this makes a woman not want sex with their spouse. It would make a man not want sex with their spouse if she treated him like this.
> 
> 
> .


I agree with you EleGirl, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

While I agree that men should try and 'win' their spouses sexual affection, there needs to be efforts from the wife to try and win over their husbands efforts to do this.

It's all fine and good to ask a husband take his wife out to dinner, or spend time with her, or pleasure her sexually, or whatever needs to be done to get her into his sexual stratosphere, but what sometimes gets neglected is that men need to be made to feel putting forth that effort is worth it.

I'd guess that not many men start out in a relationship just expecting to sit around drinking beer all day and then when the wife walks in the door, they stand up, drop their pants and say "Hey hot stuff, let's hit the sheets and make em dirty so you can clean 'em later."

Yes, I'm sure there are some men that dumb, but odds are good that most men know better than this and know that the way into good sex with their wife starts well before the bedroom. However, when that man isn't treated well, does he really want to go through all the effort to make his wife 'horny' or desiring sex? Additionally, if that men jumps through all the hoops only to be told no 50% of the time or more, why would the man jump through all the hoops after?

There needs to be a desire by the man to go through that effort in the first place, and there needs to be a fair chance of a pay off at the end to go through those hopes. If are regularly putting forth a good effort to be a good man, and caring, kind and loving, only to have your wife say no more often than not, how long would continue to put in that much effort? Many men stop putting in the effort because the results aren't there, not because they grow lazy.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

I think it's B.S to expect one spouse to woo their spouse everytime they want sex. If I have to buy my wife flowers,candy, or take her out to eat everytime I want sex then she should agree that every time I do that she must have sex. Now if we're gonna do that then let's just skip the B.S and I'll just pay you 50 dollars everytime I want some and we can just have a business deal. The fact is I"ve exhausted all efforts to encourage the wife and have been turned down 90% of the time to the point I'm like the h3ll with it. If I have to encourage my wife so much to get in the mood for sex then why does she not have to encourage me to be more emotional receptive of her needs. When the HD person is not having sex and then the LD persons wants to cuddle on the couch the HD persons is expected to cuddle on the couch and suffer because they want more knowing that ain't gonna happen, that's fair how? The fact is you either want to have sex with your spouse or you don't and no amount of encouragement is gonna make much difference. It's a false belief put forth by the LD partner to get their needs met without having to meet their spouses. I might be a fool but I ain't a [email protected] fool.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Good point HomeBuilder. Refusing to cuddle on the couch or hug your spouse because you're 'not in the mood' is viewed very negatively, which saying no to sex is just allowed.

I'm not saying a spouse shouldn't be able to refuse sex, or that giving a hug is a lot less involved/invasive/etc. than sex, but it's pretty hard to say no to giving your wife a hug without getting berated, yet sex can be denied at an alarming rate in some marriages (such as 90% as HomeBuilder stated).


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I hope everyone reads that. So tired of husbands complaining that their wives don't want to have sex, then come to discover they've done nothing to get their wives thinking about sex until she was already laying down!


It sounds a bit one-sided to me; like I should do everything I can to get her motor running, while she does nothing to turn me on... and most Husbands that complain about lack of sex is because the woman had a higher drive before marriage, and now she almost never wants sex. It's almost like false advertisement or bait and switch.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

homebuilder said:


> I think it's B.S to expect one spouse to woo their spouse everytime they want sex. If I qhave to buy my wife flowers,candy, or take her out to eat everytime I want sex then she should agree that every time I do that she must have sex. Now if we're gonna do that then let's just skip the B.S and I'll just pay you 50 dollars everytime I want some and we can just have a business deal.


I can't speak to your situation, only to mine and the many books and articles that I have read. I don't cuddle, hug, kiss, or hold hands with my wife whenever I want sex. I don't take her out to eat, clean her car off in the morning, take her a cup of tea, make breakfast for her when she is running late, or anything else I do for her simply because I love her just to get laid. However, because I do those things, she feels loved and desires intimacy with me. I don't do those thing to get sex, I do those things because I love her. And, by the way, she does countless things for me for the same reason. And that includes having sex when she may not really feel like it. As the article that I posted states, her desire often comes AFTER we start or after I initiate sex. However, if I was being a total a-hole, and only paying attention to her when I wanted some, she would not be very inclined to even start.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

romantic_guy said:


> I can't speak to your situation, only to mine and the many books and articles that I have read. I don't cuddle, hug, kiss, or hold hands with my wife whenever I want sex. I don't take her out to eat, clean her car off in the morning, take her a cup of tea, make breakfast for her when she is running late, or anything else I do for her simply because I love her just to get laid. However, because I do those things, she feels loved and desires intimacy with me. I don't do those thing to get sex, I do those things because I love her. And, by the way, she does countless things for me for the same reason. And that includes having sex when she may not really feel like it. As the article that I posted states, her desire often comes AFTER we start or after I initiate sex. However, if I was being a total a-hole, and only paying attention to her when I wanted some, she would not be very inclined to even start.




I'm not speaking of love. My point is why should I (HD spouse) be expected by my wife (LD spouse) to jump through hoops to get her excited about sex when 90% of the time it's not gonna happen anyway. I do things for my wife purely out of love but thats not what this thread is about. If my wife rejects my sexual advances then it ok by her. If I decline to cuddle, talk, hug and kiss I'm being an A-hole. Hypocrisy! When my wife married me she married my sexual needs just as much as she married my finances, health, attitude, and so forth. I married her needs as well. I guarantee you I meet more of my wifes needs than she meets of mine. I think it is foolish to expect one spouse to create this mood that some are suggesting my take hours or days to create when the LD spouse is gonna hurry up and get through it anyway. Should couple be romantic? Absolutely, should I meet my wife's needs to the best of my ability? Absolutely, but that is a two way street and why should one spouse make all the sacrifice to get their needs met, when the other makes none?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

coupdegrace said:


> It sounds a bit one-sided to me; like I should do everything I can to get her motor running, while she does nothing to turn me on... and most Husbands that complain about lack of sex is because the woman had a higher drive before marriage, and now she almost never wants sex. It's almost like false advertisement or bait and switch.


Maybe she had a higher drive before marriage because he was taking the time and effort to get her motor running back then instead of flopping into bed at the end of a long day and poking her with his erection as "foreplay". After years of that, "I'm not in the mood" is very much not bait and switch.

I'm not saying you, or anyone else here, does this. But expecting a woman's desire to operate in the exact same way as a man's desire, and refusing to even consider that it _doesn't_ work the same way, is asking for failure.

I love having sex with my man. _Love it._ He's the best lover I've ever had. However, if he started expecting me to be in the mood at the drop of a hat any time he was ready (pretty much all the time), and did very little to fuel my desire, I would gradually lose all desire to have sex with him except for those 2 days a month when I'm ovulating. And maybe not even then.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> But one of the things I am doing for V day is finishing a remodeling project at home which will speak to her "acts of service" love language. I'll probably get laid for that!


Come redo my bathroom and I'll take of ya:lol:

Kidding!!!!!


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> I agree with you in part. However too many men forget the things they did before marriage to get her to fall in love with them. Generally speaking, men and women are different. I have read countless articles explaining that men need sex to feel intimate whereas women need to feel intimate before wanting sex. We forget, men, that many women desire much non-sexual affection. We forget, men, that women want us to romance them. I also think we need to discover her love language. For instance, if I got my wife a gift or sent flowers for V day, she would think, "Oh that was nice." But one of the things I am doing for V day is finishing a remodeling project at home which will speak to her "acts of service" love language. I'll probably get laid for that!


Mr. Romantic,

Thank you for agreeing with me, at least in part.

I was saying that all married couples should _start_ with the good _intentions_ to please and fullfill their partner's sexual needs. Yes, the beginning intention must be that and nothing less than that.

I am not saying that _maintaining_ the relationship is not important.

To give an analogy: I fix computers, I know that even the best Intel i-7 laptops requires care and maintenance if we expect it to work well _in the long run_

But everybody buys an i-7 laptop with the expectation that it will work well and give good performance _from the beginning_..

Same with getting married. When my wife married me, she expected that I will give her sex, because she's my wife. Not "I will give her sex only if she is able to persuade me to want to have sex with her".

To ensure that I would still be willing and able to bonk her, she would have to "maintain" her part of the bargain, such as by trying her best to look attractive, by cooking me the best food which keeps me healthy, by taking care of my son, by managing my money the best she could, by talking to me in good manners and be in best behavior when I am with her, etc

If she has done all that, and I still don't give her sex, then I am the guilty party, not her. 

So, I understand perfectly that love within a marriage must be maintained, and is I am in agreement with you.

Still, this maintenance should not be one sided. Marriage is a Teamwork, and if only one side work hard to please the other side, it is not a Teamwork and thus not a marriage.

That is why I said, both sides should start with a good intention, then work hard to maintain the relationship.

But the reality is..Not only husbands can be totally neglecting of their wives's emotional needs. Wives does too.

Please have a look at these quotes below.



kingsfan said:


> I agree with you EleGirl, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
> 
> While I agree that men should try and 'win' their spouses sexual affection, there needs to be efforts from the wife to try and win over their husbands efforts to do this.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

In all fairness,

We have two way of thinking here.. (1) results-based (2) efforts-based..

Results based: Your spouse insists that you do something for him/her and the results must be exactly like what he/she wants. Something like: "I want you to romance me, buy me flowers, buy me diamonds, take me out to expensive dinner, be extra nice to me, and maybe I will be thinking of allowing you to see me naked.."

Efforts based: Your spouse insists that you show your love to him/her by trying your best to meet his/her needs, but it's the efforts that counts, not the actual results. Something like "Honey, it's ok if you are unable to find me that book that I asked you to get for me, even after 2 hours of searching the malls and bookstores for it. I appreciate your efforts. Here, let me give you a foot massage, and afterwards if you're feeling amorous, I have two bottles of Red Bull ready.."

Which brings us into this quote below:



homebuilder said:


> *I think it's B.S to expect one spouse to woo their spouse everytime they want sex.* If I have to buy my wife flowers,candy, or take her out to eat everytime I want sex then she should agree that every time I do that she must have sex. Now if we're gonna do that then let's just skip the B.S and I'll just pay you 50 dollars everytime I want some and we can just have a business deal. *The fact is I"ve exhausted all efforts to encourage the wife and have been turned down 90% of the time to the point I'm like the h3ll with it*. If I have to encourage my wife so much to get in the mood for sex then why does she not have to encourage me to be more emotional receptive of her needs. When the HD person is not having sex and then the LD persons wants to cuddle on the couch the HD persons is expected to cuddle on the couch and suffer because they want more knowing that ain't gonna happen, that's fair how? *The fact is you either want to have sex with your spouse or you don't and no amount of encouragement is gonna make much difference. It's a false belief put forth by the LD partner to get their needs met without having to meet their spouses*. I might be a fool but I ain't a [email protected] fool.


:smthumbup::iagree:

I must add, for the 2nd part in Bold, that not all LDs behaves like this. I am LD, but i don't behave like this.



coupdegrace said:


> It sounds a bit one-sided to me; like I should do everything I can to get her motor running, while she does nothing to turn me on... and most Husbands that complain about lack of sex is because the woman had a higher drive before marriage, and now she almost never wants sex. It's almost like false advertisement or bait and switch.


:iagree::smthumbup: and unfortunately TAM are full with these sad story of Bait and Switch, from both sides


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Hey JLB...good post. I guess that I come from the fact that I have observed many men who have forgotten how to romance their wife. Also, like I said, this point is made in many books. However, I forget that many men on here probably do try to show love and romance their spouse because the type of man who could not care less about that sort of thing would not darken the door of a site like this in the first place.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

homebuilder said:


> I think it's B.S to expect one spouse to woo their spouse everytime they want sex. If I have to buy my wife flowers,candy, or take her out to eat everytime I want sex then she should agree that every time I do that she must have sex. Now if we're gonna do that then let's just skip the B.S and I'll just pay you 50 dollars everytime I want some and we can just have a business deal. The fact is I"ve exhausted all efforts to encourage the wife and have been turned down 90% of the time to the point I'm like the h3ll with it. If I have to encourage my wife so much to get in the mood for sex then why does she not have to encourage me to be more emotional receptive of her needs. When the HD person is not having sex and then the LD persons wants to cuddle on the couch the HD persons is expected to cuddle on the couch and suffer because they want more knowing that ain't gonna happen, that's fair how? The fact is you either want to have sex with your spouse or you don't and no amount of encouragement is gonna make much difference. It's a false belief put forth by the LD partner to get their needs met without having to meet their spouses. I might be a fool but I ain't a [email protected] fool.



Perfectly said!! :iagree:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

homebuilder said:


> I'm not speaking of love. My point is why should I (HD spouse) be expected by my wife (LD spouse) to jump through hoops to get her excited about sex when 90% of the time it's not gonna happen anyway.
> 
> * I'm sorry if Ive not been clear and left you with the wrong impression. I don't think anyone is suggesting you "jump through hoops" to get her excited about sex. If you are getting shot down 9 out of 10 overtures, then there is something really wrong in your relationship and sex is simply a symptom. We see posts from wives who say he eats his dinner, plays with the kids, then plays X Box before bed. We see posts from husbands who say she never wants sex, or she never wants to spice things up, or I'm sick of the red flannel nightgown...You are not totally responsible for putting her in the mood, but you are responsible for not pissing her off so she'd rather strangle you than straddle you! I mean that's just common sense, right?*
> 
> ...




Again, I agree with you. It's not right that she doesn't meet your need for sex especially when you've met all her other emotional needs. The question now would be, is your wife really that selfish or is it possible there might be some things that are not being communicated well enough for you both to understand each other?

If, prior to marriage, you and wife had great sex and sex was often then you have to look at what is different now. Other than being married to you, what is different and causing her to not want sex as frequently as she once did? I'm sorry but I do not believe that such a drastic change in sex drive is just because she got her MRS degree and no longer needs to study. I think that's just defensive talk and it's not going to solve the issues in your marriage.
Why is being affectionate a sacrifice? is it because holding her hand or giving her a hug turns you on and now you face frustration? I get that you are extremely frustrated with the state of your sex life, but I don't think the problem is sex drive differences.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

homebuilder said:


> I think it's B.S to expect one spouse to woo their spouse everytime they want sex. If I have to buy my wife flowers,candy, or take her out to eat everytime I want sex then she should agree that every time I do that she must have sex. Now if we're gonna do that then let's just skip the B.S and I'll just pay you 50 dollars everytime I want some and we can just have a business deal.


I think you are missing the point. If you don't have a good sexual relationship, what you wrote here might be a clue as to why.

It's about spending time together and being close, sometimes my SO and I go out to dinner, but often we just go for a walk, or a swim or watch a movie at home together. If you don't want to spend time with someone, then probably staying single is the best option.



> The fact is I"ve exhausted all efforts to encourage the wife and have been turned down 90% of the time to the point I'm like the h3ll with it. If I have to encourage my wife so much to get in the mood for sex then why does she not have to encourage me to be more emotional receptive of her needs.


So your wife does not want to do things with you? doesn't ask? Your marriage is in big trouble, and it sounds like you have a lot of resentment.


> When the HD person is not having sex and then the LD persons wants to cuddle on the couch the HD persons is expected to cuddle on the couch and suffer because they want more knowing that ain't gonna happen, that's fair how?


It's not fair but something else is going on in your marriage, and your wife isn't attracted to you for some reason. Maybe start finding out why? You should both enjoy cuddling, spending time together and having sex.


> The fact is you either want to have sex with your spouse or you don't and no amount of encouragement is gonna make much difference. It's a false belief put forth by the LD partner to get their needs met without having to meet their spouses. I might be a fool but I ain't a [email protected] fool.


Do you really even know what her needs are?
How is your relationship?
Do you argue?
Do you namecall?
Do you give in?
Does she nag?

There are lots of ways to find out why your marriage is not sexual.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> Hey JLB...good post. I guess that I come from the fact that I have observed many men who have forgotten how to romance their wife.


Thank you for your kind words.

I agree that some men are lacking in their marriage-maintenance efforts.

And here in TAM, we also see many examples of the reverse side, of men who had gone through hoops trying to please their wives and still not getting any sex. They should have gotten a divorce, and yet they endured, because they love their partner. Shouldn't we at least show appreciation for their efforts by giving them our deepest sympathy?

At the risk of being boring... allow me to emphasize my point, that both parties, LD ND HD or otherwise, must _start_ a marriage with the intention to please their spouse's sexual needs. Not "I will maybe please my spouse's sexual needs if she/he is able to persuade me to want to have sex with her/him". Being LD is no excuse.

the details are here (for those whom are not getting bored  ) http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...lieve-high-drive-low-drive-2.html#post1445112

Then, after starting with good intention, even the best of intention need maintenance. Being lax and neglecting in marriage-maintenance skills and efforts is unacceptable, equally unacceptable for both genders. Again, LD ND or HD.. no excuse.



> Also, like I said, this point is made in many books. However, I forget that many men on here probably do try to show love and romance their spouse because the *type of man who could not care less about that sort of thing would not darken the door of a site like this in the first place*.


:iagree:

Here in TAM I met good men and women who really wish to make their married lives better, to make their spouses happy. Men and women who had partners whose marriage-maintenance skills are lacking, and yet still made heroic efforts to make things better. I respect them and listen to their experience and advice.

I am LD, and I was totally blissfully happy with very little sex only when I want it...until I had a wake-up call later in life which made me realize what a thoughtless fool I was, and I ramped-up my marriage-maintenance skills after the realization. Now I am much happier, and my wife also.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

If you were to meet me and my wife you would think we were a perfect couple. Most people believe that I've heard it over and over. We are best friends have the same goals in life, same beliefs, we are both good with money have alot of the same likes and dislikes. We walk on regular occasions when the weather permits do alot together. Every year we go on a week long vacation and always have a blast. I've always been very nice to my wife tried to meet her needs be sweet. I'm not a hopeless romantic but I never have been. She would tell you herself what a great husband and father I am, and that she loves me very much. I told her about a year ago that I really wanted to make our marriage great and really work at it. She responded that she thought our marriage was already really good and didn't know I didn't think so. So obviously she is content and satisfied, she also much not pay attention very well either because I've complained about the sex over and over for the duration of our marriage. In the past few months I've pretty much lost the desire for intimacy with her just because it is such a point of frustration. Turned down too many times. So my efforts were for not and I guess it is what it is. Now if the things I said that she would say about me are false then she has lied to me over and over, because I have heard her say those things constantly.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

Anon Pink

I was not taking issue with anything you said just speaking my opinion


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

homebuilder said:


> *She responded that she thought our marriage was already really good and didn't know I didn't think so. So obviously she is content and satisfied, she also much not pay attention very well either because I've complained about the sex over and over for the duration of our marriage... In the past few months I've pretty much lost the desire for intimacy with her just because it is such a point of frustration. Turned down too many times.*.


Sorry to hear this. Marriage are supposed to be a teamwork. You have made her happy and satisfied, but she has become too happy and too satisfied that her marriage-maintenance skills has been severely neglected.

You have already voiced your complaints and yet it has fallen into deaf ears? Is that what you're saying?

If yes, then what you have is not a marriage but business partnerships with a little sex thrown in when she feels like you deserve to get one.

It is logical to make the business partnerships official, by stop pretending that it is a marriage, and convert it into a friendship. That's more like it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> If, prior to marriage, you and wife had great sex and sex was often then you have to look at what is different now. Other than being married to you, what is different and causing her to not want sex as frequently as she once did? I'm sorry but I do not believe that such a drastic change in sex drive is just because she got her MRS degree and no longer needs to study. I think that's just defensive talk and it's not going to solve the issues in your marriage.
> Why is being affectionate a sacrifice? is it because holding her hand or giving her a hug turns you on and now you face frustration? I get that you are extremely frustrated with the state of your sex life, but I don't think the problem is sex drive differences.


While I think looking at what has changed since before marriage (and I think it is critical to countinue to date), often it can be marriage itself. By that, I mean that once married, you now live together, seeing each other every day, going to bed and waking up next to each other every day. Life occurs and stress and the like are there, whether in job, family or whatever. There is no opportunity to go back to your home to get away, because home is now with that person.

So the newness is gone, and familiarity set in. Perhaps unrealistic expectations about what being married entails. Without really thinking about it, the attractiveness diminishes. 

Those are dang difficult to address and merely going back to before you were married won't fix it.

_Edit - _Also, I think that most people have a general baseline that their desire fluctuates around. It is higher or lower based on outside evnts, stress, hormones, etc. But some a clearly more interested in sex and others are less.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Home,
You tell her she is treating you badly. And yet you treat her like gold. She doesn't care what you say, since what you 'do' is completely different. 

By the way, being nice to her when she is freezing you out in bed, just reduces he respect and desire for you. My guess is that she likes to hunt, and you are boringly clingy. If you had the balls to let her chase you, she might surprise you.




homebuilder said:


> If you were to meet me and my wife you would think we were a perfect couple. Most people believe that I've heard it over and over. We are best friends have the same goals in life, same beliefs, we are both good with money have alot of the same likes and dislikes. We walk on regular occasions when the weather permits do alot together. Every year we go on a week long vacation and always have a blast. I've always been very nice to my wife tried to meet her needs be sweet. I'm not a hopeless romantic but I never have been. She would tell you herself what a great husband and father I am, and that she loves me very much. I told her about a year ago that I really wanted to make our marriage great and really work at it. She responded that she thought our marriage was already really good and didn't know I didn't think so. So obviously she is content and satisfied, she also much not pay attention very well either because I've complained about the sex over and over for the duration of our marriage. In the past few months I've pretty much lost the desire for intimacy with her just because it is such a point of frustration. Turned down too many times. So my efforts were for not and I guess it is what it is. Now if the things I said that she would say about me are false then she has lied to me over and over, because I have heard her say those things constantly.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Home,
> You tell her she is treating you badly. And yet you treat her like gold. She doesn't care what you say, since what you 'do' is completely different.
> 
> By the way, being nice to her when she is freezing you out in bed, just reduces he respect and desire for you. My guess is that she likes to hunt, and you are boringly clingy. If you had the balls to let her chase you, she might surprise you.


I haven't initiated sex with my wife in months, don't really even mention it anymore.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

homebuilder said:


> I haven't initiated sex with my wife in months, don't really even mention it anymore.


That's horrible! And she hasn't said anything? She hasn't noticed? Please don't take this as an insult, but do you think waiting for her to come around is going to give her the push in the right direction? You are playing the passive game and men never win that game, NEVER!

This is your life! This is your happiness? These are your needs, not some maldeveloped horny adolescent urge! They are real, they are valid and when they are met your health and mental outlook improve. Stop waiting! Stop being the victim here. What do you want? How often? What do you need? How often? lay it out for her and tell her by not responding to your sexual advances time after time, she's telling you that 1. She doesn't love you. 2. Your needs aren't important. 3. You don't really matter. Is that the kind of life you want? 

The approach you are taking is passive and women don't respond to passive men. I'm not suggesting you go all alpha (unless you are comfortable with that:smthumbup on her but if you aren't insisting your needs be met, you are sending a message they aren't important. Tell her you love her but it wont last if she doesn't return that love. Go ahead and have that huge fight with her. 

Make up sex from the heat of a passionate argument is supposed to be really hot. I wouldn't personally know because my husband is VERY passive and I hate it!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

homebuilder said:


> I haven't initiated sex with my wife in months, don't really even mention it anymore.


But what about the other things that you do for her? Do you continue to work to meet her needs when she is clearly not willing to meet you half way? If so, your actions are contradicting your words.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> But what about the other things that you do for her? Do you continue to work to meet her needs when she is clearly not willing to meet you half way? If so, your actions are contradicting your words.



I never really believed in HD and LD until I had my thyroid removed. There is definitely a big portion of the equation that is purely biological. I understand there is an emotional piece but that is only a piece. No one should be settling for LD it sucks when you realize what a HD can really be like. Go to a Dr get a physical and have your hormone levels checked...don't just settle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> That's horrible! And she hasn't said anything? She hasn't noticed? Please don't take this as an insult, but do you think waiting for her to come around is going to give her the push in the right direction? You are playing the passive game and men never win that game, NEVER!
> 
> This is your life! This is your happiness? These are your needs, not some maldeveloped horny adolescent urge! They are real, they are valid and when they are met your health and mental outlook improve. Stop waiting! Stop being the victim here. What do you want? How often? What do you need? How often? lay it out for her and tell her by not responding to your sexual advances time after time, she's telling you that 1. She doesn't love you. 2. Your needs aren't important. 3. You don't really matter. Is that the kind of life you want?
> 
> ...


She has brought it up a few times ( about normal). Trust me we've had that talk way to many times. I told her a few weeks ago that she would never hear me complain about our sex life again. I have beat my head into that wall for years and years the h3ll with it. I cope better ignoring it than argueing over something that will never change. The next thing she will hear from me about it is when I tell her that is why I'm leaving. ( when it eventually comes to that)


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> But what about the other things that you do for her? Do you continue to work to meet her needs when she is clearly not willing to meet you half way? If so, your actions are contradicting your words.


I've pulled away emotionally a good bit, I can tell she has noticed but she sees it as I'm having a problem rather that she caused a problem if that make sense.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I do believe in HD/LD although it can have ebbs and flows. Everyone is different and yes life circumstances play a role in what a persons drive may be at that time but I think we do have an underlying drive that can be heightened or lowered due to certain factors but the base drive remains there.

I am a reasonably HD woman, yes I would like sex or some form of sexual contact everyday, I have sex most days and twice somedays. Luckily my partner is also HD so we are a good match. 

In my past life I ended up with a LD man. His drive was higher at the start of our relationship but eventually he settled back to his baseline. The consequence was that I was forced to lower my drive to accommodate his lower needs.
He was happy, he was in love, he thought life was just rosy.
I became more and more unhappy, I fell out of love, I ended the marriage.

He was happy because his natural state of being lower drive was being fulfilled. I became miserable because I had to inhibit my naturally higher drive.

Yes there is such a thing as HD/LD


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Holland,
What was his baseline? 



QUOTE=Holland;1455342]I do believe in HD/LD although it can have ebbs and flows. Everyone is different and yes life circumstances play a role in what a persons drive may be at that time but I think we do have an underlying drive that can be heightened or lowered due to certain factors but the base drive remains there.

I am a reasonably HD woman, yes I would like sex or some form of sexual contact everyday, I have sex most days and twice somedays. Luckily my partner is also HD so we are a good match. 

In my past life I ended up with a LD man. His drive was higher at the start of our relationship but eventually he settled back to his baseline. The consequence was that I was forced to lower my drive to accommodate his lower needs.
He was happy, he was in love, he thought life was just rosy.
I became more and more unhappy, I fell out of love, I ended the marriage.

He was happy because his natural state of being lower drive was being fulfilled. I became miserable because I had to inhibit my naturally higher drive.

Yes there is such a thing as HD/LD[/QUOTE]


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

HB,
What are HER love languages and how have you pulled back on those?



QUOTE=homebuilder;1455247]I've pulled away emotionally a good bit, I can tell she has noticed but she sees it as I'm having a problem rather that she caused a problem if that make sense.[/QUOTE]


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I see this topic as the 'nature' versus 'nurture' debate. 

In my opinion it's both. I think just like some people are more gifted athletes than others some people have higher sex drive. It doesn't mean however a person can't strive to be the best they can be with what they were given. 

I'm not convinced all the cases raised here as LD/HD issues are in fact that. I suspect in some cases the so called LD spouses given the right partner in the right environment would be hornier than a you know what in heat. In those cases the issue is more a reflection of the relationship. Then of course there are other situations where the so called LD person has had a past traumatic experience or particularly repressive upbringing which prevents them from being able to relax and truly enjoy sex. 

There is no one size fits all answer to this dilemma.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I definitely agree that libido falls on a spectrum. Where I start to get fuzzy is for those who say they have no sex drive at all.

For millions of years, the human species has propagated itself through time because humans, like most other animals, are born with an innate, instinctual drive to reproduce. This drive is so strong that it can short circuit higher brain functions so that we can "continue the species" even if we know it's a bad choice to sleep with someone.

So when people claim to have zero sex drive, they are saying that they somehow did not get that innate, instinctual drive. While certainly not impossible, and I have not done any scientific studies on the matter, I'd bet that the number of people who truly don't have that drive is incredibly small. I'd bet less than two percent of the population.

So when people come here and say they have no sex drive or their spouses have no sex drive, I find that statistically hard to believe. I don't doubt that they're having problems with their sexuality, but I just can't believe there are as many frigid people as can be inferred from these threads.

The best advice I ever heard was this: "It's not that your partner doesn't like sex, it's that they don't like sex with you."


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> I definitely agree that libido falls on a spectrum. Where I start to get fuzzy is for those who say they have no sex drive at all.
> 
> For millions of years, the human species has propagated itself through time because humans, like most other animals, are born with an innate, instinctual drive to reproduce. This drive is so strong that it can short circuit higher brain functions so that we can "continue the species" even if we know it's a bad choice to sleep with someone.
> 
> ...


Let's say it IS 2% of the population. That's at least 4 million people in the US alone old enough to be in a sexual relationship. Let's presume that 1/100th of 1% of them or their significant others find their way to TAM. That would be 400 people at any given time in a relationship with someone with absolutely no sex drive available to post here, if you ONLY consider the U.S.

Still sound so far fetched?


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Let's say it IS 2% of the population. That's at least 4 million people in the US alone old enough to be in a sexual relationship. Let's presume that 1/100th of 1% of them or their significant others find their way to TAM. That would be 400 people at any given time in a relationship with someone with absolutely no sex drive available to post here, if you ONLY consider the U.S.
> 
> Still sound so far fetched?


Yes.

Assuming that the 2% figure that I completely made up is accurate, and assuming further that TAM represents a random sample of the population, that would still mean that statisically speaking, only 2% of the people claiming to have no sex drive whatsoever really and truly don't.

However, let's assume that TAM does not represent a random sample of the population. Assume instead that through various processes of self-selection, TAM represents a population that is, say, ten times higher than the average population for truly no sex drive. That would mean that 20% of the people posting sexual problems on TAM truly don't have a sex drive, which means 4 out of 5 people claiming they have no drive whatsoever actually do.

Note that I'm not talking about people who have had a drive in the past but currently don't, nor am I talking about people who have a drive but it's just very, very low, nor am I talking about people that have a drive but currently are not attracted to their mates. I'm talking about people who flat out say, "I have never, ever, not once in my life, felt any sort of sexual sensation whatsoever."

As I said, I truly believe that libido is on a spectrum and that we all go through times where we're not attracted to our spouses/the opposite sex/things that normally turn us on.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> Yes.
> 
> However, let's assume that TAM does not represent a random sample of the population.


Almost guaranteed to be the case.



> Assume instead that through various processes of self-selection, TAM represents a population that is, say, ten times higher than the average population for truly no sex drive.


I don't see that many posting here who claim no sex drive. A few, but not many. What I see are the spouses and significant others of those with little or no sex drive, and that group is *absolutely* over-represented here compared to their abundance in the real world. 



> That would mean that 20% of the people posting sexual problems on TAM truly don't have a sex drive, which means 4 out of 5 people claiming they have no drive whatsoever actually do.


But most posting sexual problems here are not posting about no sex drive whatsoever. Most are posting over mismatched sex drives or individual practices.

I guess I just don't see the flood of posters claiming that "I have no sex drive" in the numbers you seem to imply.



> Note that I'm not talking about people who have had a drive in the past but currently don't, nor am I talking about people who have a drive but it's just very, very low, nor am I talking about people that have a drive but currently are not attracted to their mates. I'm talking about people who flat out say, "I have never, ever, not once in my life, felt any sort of sexual sensation whatsoever."


I can only recall perhaps two such statements in the last six months here on TAM.



> As I said, I truly believe that libido is on a spectrum and that we all go through times where we're not attracted to our spouses/the opposite sex/things that normally turn us on.


No doubt.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Almost guaranteed to be the case.
> 
> I don't see that many posting here who claim no sex drive. A few, but not many. What I see are the spouses and significant others of those with little or no sex drive, and that group is *absolutely* over-represented here compared to their abundance in the real world.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on all counts. If you'll go back and read my first post, you'll note that nowhere did I say those posts were running rampant on TAM, or that they represented a large number of posts, or any similar claim. All I said was that I don't always buy when people claim they have no sex drive at all. That's it.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Holland,
> What was his baseline?
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

MEM that is a hard one to answer but will do my best. I think his baseline was about 1-4 a month which is way too low for me to be satisfied with.

The problem is that as he settled into his 1-4 times a month I grew more and more resentful which of course impacted our lives. He then withdrew and at times we could go for many, many months without any sex. Once that vicious cycle began we were not equipped to salvage the marriage.

The interesting thing is that once too much resentment had set in I then became the rejector. I can't explain it but I began to feel repulsed by the thought of having sex with him. Maybe it is a protection mechanism because the blow to your self esteem by being continually rejected is major. 

At the very end he had initiated but I was done and in so much pain that I called it quits. 

In my current relationship I am on the constant look out for changes in our sex life. We have had many discussions about our pasts and I am sure he truly is a HD man. It is just so important for me to be with someone compatible, not only because I enjoy and want sex but because I cannot afford to have my self esteem shot to pieces again. I just won't go back to that black hole, ever. I know you helped me out earlier when I came to TAM and thank you so much. I am in IC now and really have a much better grip on life and this issue.

ETA Ex and i are now much better friends than we were for the last 5 years of our marriage. We do care for each other but we were the classic roommates. Now we can be friends without the pressure, resentment etc that we had while married. lol I like him much better as a friend than a husband.


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

Okay, here is the deal. I used to at least tolerate a normal sexual relationship with my husband. It was NEVER that important to me. To answer the question in every male's head now, YES, I have had an orgasm (several per week, actually) and I just don't care if I have another. It is a muscle contraction, just like I had during my four births. 

During our 23 years of marriage, I have had too many to count, and I don't want to count any more. I don't even masturbate. I don't think it is worth the effort. I understand the male philosophy that it is a release of stress, but don't you realize it is stress you built up "during the sex" and not stress you already had? Sorry, but nothing makes that go away (except maybe impeaching Obama and eliminating life situations). Sex is just one more thing I have to do to keep my marriage alive. He is a great lover. He wants to please me first. He just doesn't understand that pleasing me is me "not" having an orgasm. If he wants sex, just use some lube, enter me, and finish. I could care less. I don't caress him, and I really don't want him to caress me, because I know that leads to more sex, which I don't want. I don't masturbate, and I don't want to. 

Yes I can orgasm, but what is the big deal? It is a bunch of muscle contractions. I would rather read, take a bubble bath, or watch a movie. If you will forgive me for the example, it is like standing in line for 45 minutes at your favorite ride, getting on the ride, taking a few minutes to get to the top, then plunging to the bottom, where you experience a few seconds of thrill, then you are finished. It is cool to do once or twice a year, but that is it.

Hubby is as understanding as he can be, and I have sought doctor and therapist advice, but it comes down to the fact that it is not important to me. I give it for him, but I cannot make myself a cheerleader for it. He doesn't understand why I don't want it all the time. I don't understand why he does. Men are like to monkeys on that one movie where they found out they got sexual pleasure out of pressing a button, and then pushed it over and over until they died. 

If your wife gives it to you to satisfy you, isn't that saying she cares about your needs? Do you actually care about hers?


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

Okay, I have been in 6 pregnancies and 4 births. I now have no sex drive at all to speak of. I have done my "duty" as you seem to infer. Is that a reason for no desire for sex, then. Because I have none, and I still love my husband desperately. How do you explain that?

He can bring me to orgasm. How do you explain that I no longer want one? Please, enlighten me.


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

You don't fall in and out of love, like changing underwear. If you fell out of love because of sex, you were in lust. I love my spouse, and would give my life to save his. He is my best friend and my companion. If sex is all it took you to leave, you did not have a marriage. 

I would die or kill to save my husband or my kids. It would be worth it to know I saved them. However, that doesn't change my desire for sex. I can't even see how the two are the same. You have five fingers on each hand, and the ability to use them. How can you justify leaving your mate for sex? Release is easy, if you seek it. I don't seek it, almost ever. Maybe once a year, on my own. I get more than enough from what my hubby insists on. Honestly, it should be easy. They say you know what you want. Then do that. 

I want nothing, so I do that. He asks me what I want. He wants me to tell him, but I hold my tongue, because I want him to leave me alone, and that would hurt him. I don't want to do that. I haven't wanted to kiss for years, and I don't want touches. So I shut my mouth and tolerate them. Because other websites tell him if I don't want it, he must be doing it wrong. I surely want something I am not getting. So, so wrong, unless you count NOT touching me, which he would not accept. 

Please, just accept that we ARE NOT interested in sex. It is not that "awesome" to us. We do it FOR YOU. Try to understand we don't find it all that awesome, and just get on with it. 

Thank you for listening.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Momman said:


> You don't fall in and out of love, like changing underwear. If you fell out of love because of sex, you were in lust. I love my spouse, and would give my life to save his. He is my best friend and my companion. If sex is all it took you to leave, you did not have a marriage.
> 
> I would die or kill to save my husband or my kids. It would be worth it to know I saved them. However, that doesn't change my desire for sex. I can't even see how the two are the same. You have five fingers on each hand, and the ability to use them. How can you justify leaving your mate for sex? Release is easy, if you seek it. I don't seek it, almost ever. Maybe once a year, on my own. I get more than enough from what my hubby insists on. Honestly, it should be easy. They say you know what you want. Then do that.
> 
> ...


Saying that leaving your spouse over sex is a product of lust and not love is a little presumptuous, I think. While sex may not be that important to you, this board is filled with men and women to whom sex is very important.

If your worldview works for your marriage, then great. If your H is fine with you performing your duties to him, that's awesome.

Your H doesn't sound happy that you grudgingly perform these duties for him, but maybe I'm reading too much into it. Regardless, if it works for you, then keep on keepin' on.

But just as you can't fathom why people enjoy those muscular contractions called orgasms, there are lots of other people who can't fathom those who don't enjoy them.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Momman said:


> How can you justify leaving your mate for sex?


Some (most?) people consider a healthy sex life to be a foundation of a happy marriage. Sex to them is not just a release or physical act but also a way of communicating to each other. When there is no sex life than there is no marriage for them. I count among those people.



> I want nothing, so I do that. He asks me what I want. He wants me to tell him, but I hold my tongue, because I want him to leave me alone, and that would hurt him. I don't want to do that. I haven't wanted to kiss for years, and I don't want touches. So I shut my mouth and tolerate them.


Your notion of 'loving' your husband is very strange to me. I don't want that my wife dies or kills on my behalf. I do want all this things that you mentioned here. 



> Please, just accept that we ARE NOT interested in sex. It is not that "awesome" to us. We do it FOR YOU. Try to understand we don't find it all that awesome, and just get on with it.


We? Who?


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

I would want to have sex with my wife even if I couldn't orgasm. It is an emotional and intimate connection. My wife is the only person that I share that connection with and when I don't have that connection it makes it harder to love and feel loved. If I don't have sex with my wife it's not the physical pain that is bothersome it's the emotional pain.


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

I don't think it is presumptuous at all. He does want it all the time, she would prefer not to have it. How is his preference more important that hers? Love is about each other. I love him, so I provide. He loves me, too. He tries to give me what I want. How would his needs trump mine? We work around it as much as we can. 
The message I get here is, his or her need to HAVE sex is more important than his or her need NOT TO. Who made that rule? The one with the greater need? Should you not respect each other and try to work together to make it sort of work?


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

I would think that everyday there is no sex, then the LD spouse's needs are being met. They won't no sex, didn't have sex. I'm HD, wife is LD. In 13 1/2 years of marriage we probably average 2 to 4 times a month. I would say her need (as you call it) to not have sex has been met alot more than my need to have sex.


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

Those who don't NEED sex. We do it for you, our spouses. The example that I would kill or die for them was just to show that I do love them. What i don't want is the sex. It is tiring, uninteresting, and more trouble than it is worth. I don't need muscle contractions. I had them giving birth. It was not that cool. Still, I gave birth four times. I wanted two kids, he wanted 5. I gave him four and two miscarriages. 

You say you don't want your spouse to die for you, but you do. If you were in danger, you would want her or him to offer their life for yours, as that is true love. You would then offer yours for theirs, another sign of true love. 

I don't deny sex to my spouse, because I know he needs it. I just need someone to understand that some of us don't. We don't need or want it. We don't need that "physical" connection to feel close. Besides, be honest, guys. You don't need it to feel close. You need it because you are horny. You can feel close by holding or touching just to be close, with no sex involved. You have convinced yourself that sex equals closeness because that is a good excuse for you to want it. You can justify it to a less sexual spouse that way. I can love, protect, and support my spouse without ever feeling the need for sex. He is honest enough to say he needs it to relieve stress and make him feel better. He just doesn't understand why it doesn't do that for me. I give it because I understand he need. Why can't you do the same?


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

Sorry, typo. Understand his need.


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

My hubby and I have sex at least 4 times a week. My desire to have it is about once every 4 months. His needs are being met. Females feel used when all you want is what is between our legs. Our minds and hearts, and souls are not worth anything. If we didn't have a vagina, you would not want us. We are sick of that. If you did not have a penis, we would still love you. Can you say the same?


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

You can also take care of yourself. Single guys do it all the time, as do single girls. Do you love her, or the sex she could provide? It is a legitimate question.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

Momman said:


> Those who don't NEED sex. We do it for you, our spouses. The example that I would kill or die for them was just to show that I do love them. What i don't want is the sex. It is tiring, uninteresting, and more trouble than it is worth. I don't need muscle contractions. I had them giving birth. It was not that cool. Still, I gave birth four times. I wanted two kids, he wanted 5. I gave him four and two miscarriages.
> 
> You say you don't want your spouse to die for you, but you do. If you were in danger, you would want her or him to offer their life for yours, as that is true love. You would then offer yours for theirs, another sign of true love.
> 
> I don't deny sex to my spouse, because I know he needs it. I just need someone to understand that some of us don't. We don't need or want it. We don't need that "physical" connection to feel close. Besides, be honest, guys. You don't need it to feel close. You need it because you are horny. You can feel close by holding or touching just to be close, with no sex involved. You have convinced yourself that sex equals closeness because that is a good excuse for you to want it. You can justify it to a less sexual spouse that way. I can love, protect, and support my spouse without ever feeling the need for sex. He is honest enough to say he needs it to relieve stress and make him feel better. He just doesn't understand why it doesn't do that for me. I give it because I understand he need. Why can't you do the same?


You have no idea what I need to feel close to my wife.


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## Momman (Sep 4, 2012)

Keep on with that statement. It sounds good on paper. You don't miss that intimate connection. It doesn't exist for men. You want the sexual connection. If you could not orgasm, it would still feel good to you. My husband has said so on more than one occasion. To those with no sex drive, nothing feels "good" to us. We don't want that orgasm you are so eager to reach. 

We feel a connection when we hug, snuggle, and hold hands. When we watch a movie together. We want to feel that we are bonded as people, not sex objects. 

You will never understand, as this is not your situation. We do understand yours, and many of us try to provide for that need. However, you wanting us to embrace it as ours isn't likely. I have sex 4-5 times a week, whether I want to or not. What do you do for your spouse that you do even though you don't want to 4-5 times per week. Taking out the trash doesn't count, because she doesn't like that either. What do you do that she loves that you don't that you do 4-5 times a week. Be honest.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Momman said:


> Those who don't NEED sex. We do it for you, our spouses. The example that I would kill or die for them was just to show that I do love them. What i don't want is the sex. It is tiring, uninteresting, and more trouble than it is worth. I don't need muscle contractions. I had them giving birth. It was not that cool. Still, I gave birth four times. I wanted two kids, he wanted 5. I gave him four and two miscarriages.
> 
> You say you don't want your spouse to die for you, but you do. If you were in danger, you would want her or him to offer their life for yours, as that is true love. You would then offer yours for theirs, another sign of true love.
> 
> I don't deny sex to my spouse, because I know he needs it. I just need someone to understand that some of us don't. We don't need or want it. We don't need that "physical" connection to feel close. Besides, be honest, guys. You don't need it to feel close. You need it because you are horny. You can feel close by holding or touching just to be close, with no sex involved. You have convinced yourself that sex equals closeness because that is a good excuse for you to want it. You can justify it to a less sexual spouse that way. I can love, protect, and support my spouse without ever feeling the need for sex. He is honest enough to say he needs it to relieve stress and make him feel better. He just doesn't understand why it doesn't do that for me. I give it because I understand he need. Why can't you do the same?


...right.

Like I said, if that works for you, then great. From the way you describe, and maybe I'm projecting, but you sound like the sex situation in your marriage is more agreeable to you than your H.

Regardless, if you can't look at the situation as you've described and understand why most people would find that an untenable marriage, then there's nothing I or anyone else on this forum will say to make you understand how we feel about it. Which is fine, as I get the sense that you aren't really interested in seeing the other side.


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## homebuilder (Aug 25, 2012)

Momman said:


> Keep on with that statement. It sounds good on paper. You don't miss that intimate connection. It doesn't exist for men. You want the sexual connection. If you could not orgasm, it would still feel good to you. My husband has said so on more than one occasion. To those with no sex drive, nothing feels "good" to us. We don't want that orgasm you are so eager to reach.
> 
> We feel a connection when we hug, snuggle, and hold hands. When we watch a movie together. We want to feel that we are bonded as people, not sex objects.
> 
> You will never understand, as this is not your situation. We do understand yours, and many of us try to provide for that need. However, you wanting us to embrace it as ours isn't likely. I have sex 4-5 times a week, whether I want to or not. What do you do for your spouse that you do even though you don't want to 4-5 times per week. Taking out the trash doesn't count, because she doesn't like that either. What do you do that she loves that you don't that you do 4-5 times a week. Be honest.


So being someone of your intelligence and knowledge I guess you came to TAM to educate us all, not looking for advice. Imagine what you will know tomorow


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Wife and I averagrd sex daily for well into our 3rd decade....Thats a LOT of sex.

After 47 years, "last night and again this morning" would be great for me...For her, "Not so much"....

At age 66 I could still enjoy sex literally every day, I have always known I was not in the center of the bell curve...... 

I can live with sex once a week, and I am sexually fixated on my wife. I cannot imagine having sex with another woman.

It is not the ideal situation, and we are working on the "5 love languages" to see of we can up the frequency.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Momman said:


> I don't deny sex to my spouse, because I know he needs it. I just need someone to understand that some of us don't. We don't need or want it. We don't need that "physical" connection to feel close. Besides, be honest, guys. You don't need it to feel close. You need it because you are horny. You can feel close by holding or touching just to be close, with no sex involved. You have convinced yourself that sex equals closeness because that is a good excuse for you to want it. You can justify it to a less sexual spouse that way. I can love, protect, and support my spouse without ever feeling the need for sex. He is honest enough to say he needs it to relieve stress and make him feel better. He just doesn't understand why it doesn't do that for me. I give it because I understand he need. Why can't you do the same?


You were doing fine and then you stepped over the line.

You don't get to dictate what others define as necessary for closeness in their relationship any more than they get to dictate your sex drive.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Momman said:


> Keep on with that statement. It sounds good on paper. You don't miss that intimate connection. It doesn't exist for men. You want the sexual connection. If you could not orgasm, it would still feel good to you. My husband has said so on more than one occasion. To those with no sex drive, nothing feels "good" to us. We don't want that orgasm you are so eager to reach.
> 
> We feel a connection when we hug, snuggle, and hold hands. When we watch a movie together. We want to feel that we are bonded as people, not sex objects.
> 
> You will never understand, as this is not your situation. We do understand yours, and many of us try to provide for that need. However, you wanting us to embrace it as ours isn't likely. I have sex 4-5 times a week, whether I want to or not. What do you do for your spouse that you do even though you don't want to 4-5 times per week. Taking out the trash doesn't count, because she doesn't like that either. What do you do that she loves that you don't that you do 4-5 times a week. Be honest.


Firstly do not talk for all women. You and I are polar opposites in our experiences and beliefs in sex and intimacy.

Pretty much all you have said in this post is incorrect for my partner and generally belittles men.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Momman said:


> My hubby and I have sex at least 4 times a week. My desire to have it is about once every 4 months. His needs are being met. Females feel used when all you want is what is between our legs. Our minds and hearts, and souls are not worth anything. If we didn't have a vagina, you would not want us. We are sick of that. If you did not have a penis, we would still love you. Can you say the same?


Nope, not in a world where there are plenty of perfectly good hearts and souls with a functioning sex drive.

So crucify me.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Nope, not in a world where there are plenty of perfectly good hearts and souls with a functioning sex drive.
> 
> So crucify me.


I tend to agree with you Cletus.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Holland said:


> I tend to agree with you Cletus.


I've about had a belly full of Those Who Speak For Everyone In The World 'round here.

Jeez, people. There's 7+ billion of us on the planet - is there no room in your imagination for experiences you haven't and probably will never have?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Holland,
I am happy that you are in a good place. And I am not surprised. It was obvious from your first posts that you had been run through the wringer in your first marriage. 

It is interesting how these things work - or don't. 

You will likely find that at such point in the future when things slow down a little, that two things are true:
- the new guy will make an effort to minimize any distress you feel over the disconnect and
- your best overall results may come from letting him lead more than half the time

The thing with your ex went way beyond raw physiology. He didn't seem to feel all that bad about not meeting your needs. Lack of empathy is every bit as bad as a lack of Testosterone 


QUOTE=Holland;1465257][/QUOTE]

MEM that is a hard one to answer but will do my best. I think his baseline was about 1-4 a month which is way too low for me to be satisfied with.

The problem is that as he settled into his 1-4 times a month I grew more and more resentful which of course impacted our lives. He then withdrew and at times we could go for many, many months without any sex. Once that vicious cycle began we were not equipped to salvage the marriage.

The interesting thing is that once too much resentment had set in I then became the rejector. I can't explain it but I began to feel repulsed by the thought of having sex with him. Maybe it is a protection mechanism because the blow to your self esteem by being continually rejected is major. 

At the very end he had initiated but I was done and in so much pain that I called it quits. 

In my current relationship I am on the constant look out for changes in our sex life. We have had many discussions about our pasts and I am sure he truly is a HD man. It is just so important for me to be with someone compatible, not only because I enjoy and want sex but because I cannot afford to have my self esteem shot to pieces again. I just won't go back to that black hole, ever. I know you helped me out earlier when I came to TAM and thank you so much. I am in IC now and really have a much better grip on life and this issue.

ETA Ex and i are now much better friends than we were for the last 5 years of our marriage. We do care for each other but we were the classic roommates. Now we can be friends without the pressure, resentment etc that we had while married. lol I like him much better as a friend than a husband.[/QUOTE]


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

> MEM11363 said:
> 
> 
> > Holland,
> ...


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Momman said:


> My hubby and I have sex at least 4 times a week. My desire to have it is about once every 4 months. His needs are being met. Females feel used when all you want is what is between our legs. Our minds and hearts, and souls are not worth anything. If we didn't have a vagina, you would not want us. We are sick of that. If you did not have a penis, we would still love you. Can you say the same?


Nope.

Welcome to the cruel world.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Momman said:


> I don't think it is presumptuous at all. He does want it all the time, she would prefer not to have it. How is his preference more important that hers? Love is about each other. I love him, so I provide. He loves me, too. He tries to give me what I want. How would his needs trump mine? We work around it as much as we can.
> The message I get here is, his or her need to HAVE sex is more important than his or her need NOT TO. Who made that rule? The one with the greater need? Should you not respect each other and try to work together to make it sort of work?


I don't think either parties 'needs' supersede the other. However, in my mind that makes it perfectly reasonable for a person to leave their spouse over sex. It free's both of them to live life the way they want to live it. To stay together means one or both have to compromise something they consider essential to their well being.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Momman said:


> Those who don't NEED sex. We do it for you, our spouses. The example that I would kill or die for them was just to show that I do love them. What i don't want is the sex. It is tiring, uninteresting, and more trouble than it is worth. I don't need muscle contractions. I had them giving birth. It was not that cool. Still, I gave birth four times. I wanted two kids, he wanted 5. I gave him four and two miscarriages.


If you are equating orgasms to child birth, no wonder you don't want sex. 

Btw, you gave HIM four kids? Last I checked, that'd make you a parent too, so you gave both of you two kids. 



Momman said:


> Besides, be honest, guys. You don't need it to feel close. You need it because you are horny.


Umm, no. Firstly, you aren't me, you don't know why I need it. Secondly, sex does bring a very special, unique bond to my relationship. If the only reason guys needed sex was because they were horny, do you honestly think we'd ever get married?

There's a reason we vow to have sex with only our spouses, it because it is a special act shared between two people. And that doesn't apply to only marriage, even people who are dating expect their partner to be with only them.



Momman said:


> Females feel used when all you want is what is between our legs. Our minds and hearts, and souls are not worth anything. If we didn't have a vagina, you would not want us. We are sick of that. If you did not have a penis, we would still love you. Can you say the same?


A) I don't want what's just between my fiancee's legs, but I do want that as well.
B) Her heart and mind is worth a lot, which is why I spend a lot more time focusing on those areas than what is between her legs.
C) If she didn't have a vagina, she'd be a man (the only other option) and I'm not homosexual, so no, I wouldn't be with her.
D) If you don't need a penis in a relationship and hate men for their sexual demands, why don't you go find a nice lesbian to be with who shares your views?


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> If you don't need a penis in a relationship and hate men for their sexual demands, why don't you go find a nice lesbian to be with who shares your views?


:iagree:

Mr. Kingsfan,

This is an excellent advice, and should be strongly considered by any woman who dislikes penis and dislikes men's sexual demands. 

Another excellent advice would be: 

if you have homosexual tendencies, do not marry a heterosexual person.


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