# a year after divorce and want to ask how others have dealt with this subject



## Arkansas

I had another thread that I spoke of a 23 year marriage, and the devastating 9 month divorce process after I found about my evil demon of an ex-wife. 

Here I am, over a year after the divorce was finalized. I'm dating a super nice lady. Financially I'm good, never knew my ex-wife was that costly. Stable job. I have had zero communications in months with the ex, I have no reasons to or plan to either. I'm not unhappy - I am active, I have a few closer friends, I am outgoing and do a lot of things. 

Here is what's bothering me lately. As time goes on, people are going to forget all of what my ex did. I don't want to sound dramatic but, the person I was died in some ways. Those months ... pretty much shattered my believe in true love, vows, promises etc and I think that's normal when its that destructive. Those feelings of betrayal and the hurt and pain ...... its very fresh, its very real, it accompanies me everyday and often I dream about it all. I've had two stand out dreams, not good dreams. A recent trip I was on I think 3 of 4 nights I was dreaming of ex and all the cheating and hurting and stuff and it was awful.

What bothers me is .... that my friends, family, her family ..... they're all going to eventually allow time to erase what happened or at least blur it all. I understand that, it didn't happen to them directly but somehow .... that's very hurtful to me. My 19 year old son hates her and has no relationship, my daughter spends a lot of time with my ex though I'm not sure just how much my daughter really knows of what happened (she never wanted to know) .... while my son knows much about it. 

Even as I type this out it seems, well, almost stupid to be feeling those things. My ex's relationships with other people, I shouldn't care much about but for some reason, it seems very important to me. I guess its almost like she's getting away with everything she did that was so terribly and awful and that seems exceptionally unfair. 

Do ya'll know what I'm saying here? Any recommendations ? normal feelings, too weird ?


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## Lostinthought61

Sadly you can not control how people handle memories of the past...you can not control how they will view a year, two years or 10 years from today........look i get it she was evil and she is now out of your life...but don't forget it's not like she will suddenly become an angel to someone else...in all likelihood she will spread her evilness to others in the long run, and maybe you will be around to hear about it or not doesn't matter. This is your life and your future don't give her further real estate in it. the more you think about it the more it will control you and the less control you will have on your future with this woman or any woman. Additionally, the more you think about your ex and talk about how she was so evil the more others will think you are still into her, just playing the denial card....so are you ?


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## Blondilocks

People have their own lives and their own problems. Don't expect them to dwell on yours. Move on with your life and don't try to saddle others with your hurt - that is a sure fire way to lose friends and family.


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## Diana7

You will never move on properly until you let go of the past. Forgiveness is vital for you to do this.


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## SunCMars

Good advice given, good advice for you to take far and away...and learn.

So many cannot live in the present, so tight does the past bind them to that fore pain.

Go to a hypnotherapist. Have him make you a present person, not (a stuck, sad in the past) seething ghost.

Easy to say, I know such a person like you, though, nay, it ain't me.

With some people, those fixed types, there is no forgetting, no forgiving.


_Are Dee-_


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## sokillme

Arkansas said:


> I had another thread that I spoke of a 23 year marriage, and the devastating 9 month divorce process after I found about my evil demon of an ex-wife.
> 
> Here I am, over a year after the divorce was finalized. I'm dating a super nice lady. Financially I'm good, never knew my ex-wife was that costly. Stable job. I have had zero communications in months with the ex, I have no reasons to or plan to either. I'm not unhappy - I am active, I have a few closer friends, I am outgoing and do a lot of things.
> 
> Here is what's bothering me lately. As time goes on, people are going to forget all of what my ex did. I don't want to sound dramatic but, the person I was died in some ways. Those months ... pretty much shattered my believe in true love, vows, promises etc and I think that's normal when its that destructive. Those feelings of betrayal and the hurt and pain ...... its very fresh, its very real, it accompanies me everyday and often I dream about it all. I've had two stand out dreams, not good dreams. A recent trip I was on I think 3 of 4 nights I was dreaming of ex and all the cheating and hurting and stuff and it was awful.
> 
> What bothers me is .... that my friends, family, her family ..... they're all going to eventually allow time to erase what happened or at least blur it all. I understand that, it didn't happen to them directly but somehow .... that's very hurtful to me. My 19 year old son hates her and has no relationship, my daughter spends a lot of time with my ex though I'm not sure just how much my daughter really knows of what happened (she never wanted to know) .... while my son knows much about it.
> 
> Even as I type this out it seems, well, almost stupid to be feeling those things. My ex's relationships with other people, I shouldn't care much about but for some reason, it seems very important to me. I guess its almost like she's getting away with everything she did that was so terribly and awful and that seems exceptionally unfair.
> 
> Do ya'll know what I'm saying here? Any recommendations ? normal feelings, too weird ?


Her punishment is to be who she is. She loves without loyalty, she probably doesn't understand what love is at all. The next relationship she starts she will either have to lie about who she is or start with the potential mate wondering. 

Once you really understand it, you actually feel bad for them.


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## coquille

Your hurt and heartache is your own and you are dealing with it by yourself. The opposite of love is not hate; it's indifference. Once you reach indifference, then you can breathe. You are clearly not there yet and it takes time. I'm adding my comment here to ask you NOT to expect your children to hate her. She is their mother, and if you keep repeating to them how awful she is, they will end up hating you because you are interfering in their view of her and in this way you show them that you don't trust their sense of judgment. They are intelligent adults and they are capable of forming their own opinion. They know what their mother did and who she is, but it doesn't change the fact that she is their mother and she raised them. Their experience with her is different from yours and you need to respect that. I'd stop mentioning her to them at all. Let them sort out their emotions on their own. Work on yourself; see a therapist; give yourself time and be gentle with yourself. Let the kids heal from the hurt this experience caused them and don't be disappointed if they stay in touch with their mother. They know who she is and they are learning to deal with her as she is. Your healing comes when you can erase her from your thoughts, but they cannot do this as her children. In this sense, your path toward healing is easier than theirs. Don't make it harder on them. Your job as their father is not to remind them that you are a victim; your job is to repeat to them that you will always love them no matter what and you'll be there for them.


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## TXTrini

Arkansas said:


> I had another thread that I spoke of a 23 year marriage, and the devastating 9 month divorce process after I found about my evil demon of an ex-wife.
> 
> Here I am, over a year after the divorce was finalized. I'm dating a super nice lady. Financially I'm good, never knew my ex-wife was that costly. Stable job. I have had zero communications in months with the ex, I have no reasons to or plan to either. I'm not unhappy - I am active, I have a few closer friends, I am outgoing and do a lot of things.
> 
> Here is what's bothering me lately. As time goes on, people are going to forget all of what my ex did. I don't want to sound dramatic but, the person I was died in some ways. Those months ... pretty much shattered my believe in true love, vows, promises etc and I think that's normal when its that destructive. Those feelings of betrayal and the hurt and pain ...... its very fresh, its very real, it accompanies me everyday and often I dream about it all. I've had two stand out dreams, not good dreams. A recent trip I was on I think 3 of 4 nights I was dreaming of ex and all the cheating and hurting and stuff and it was awful.
> 
> What bothers me is .... that my friends, family, her family ..... they're all going to eventually allow time to erase what happened or at least blur it all. I understand that, it didn't happen to them directly but somehow .... that's very hurtful to me. My 19 year old son hates her and has no relationship, my daughter spends a lot of time with my ex though I'm not sure just how much my daughter really knows of what happened (she never wanted to know) .... while my son knows much about it.
> 
> Even as I type this out it seems, well, almost stupid to be feeling those things. My ex's relationships with other people, I shouldn't care much about but for some reason, it seems very important to me. I guess its almost like she's getting away with everything she did that was so terribly and awful and that seems exceptionally unfair.
> 
> Do ya'll know what I'm saying here? Any recommendations ? normal feelings, too weird ?


Hi Arkansas 
I think it's normal to harbor such feelings. My situation is quite similar except my ex and I had no children, so I made a clean break and left that life completely behind me. Maybe it only sticks you in the craw because your daughter spends so much time with her? Either way, you have no control over that.

It sounds like you're still holding onto the past and wanting justice. Sometimes you have to accept that people do not get what they deserve, and even if they do, it has nothing to do with you. What she did no longer matters, you are no longer married. 

People have short memories or are caught up in their own issues. Some people are incredibly shallow and do not live by principle, so they will forgive and forget and even get all chummy with dishonorable people because they get something out of it. Whether it's material favors or feeling morally superior to have one on someone (Yes, I'm a cynic, sue me!)

I know I am still healing, and I will never be the same person again, but that is not a bad thing. Take the opportunity to examine your own weaknesses and shortcomings and learn from that experience. Your exW doesn't have to hang over your head like a headsman's axe, and ruin your joy.

This is why forgiveness is so important. It's not for her, you're not going to condone what she did in any way. It's part of your healing process, so you can move towards peace. It won't happen overnight, but if you work on it, it will happen eventually.

I'm still very sad about the trajectory my life took, but I have to say, I've been much happier since I was able to let go of the anger. The pain might linger for the rest of my life, and that's ok. Pain reminds you you're alive, it makes you appreciate when you finally find joy again.


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## Benbutton

Diana7 said:


> You will never move on properly until you let go of the past. Forgiveness is vital for you to do this.


This is not true, you don't need to forgive OP. In time you will become apathetic, especially if your new relationship progresses. Just live your life knowing that illness has been removed from it.


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## Marc878

Perfect thread on this issue.








Friends? Probably not.


Dear Chump Lady, I am 6 months post divorce after discovering my ex-wife’s infidelity in September 2013. This holiday season my children (12, 8) are with my ex-wife abroad with her affair partner on holiday with my ex in-laws. It sucks that my kids spend time with the man that helped break up my...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Marc878

People don’t forget that you’ve been wronged. They just don’t care. You don’t mean that much to them. 
Friend is a very loosely used word. From what I’ve seen are probably acquaintances.

Definition of friend - loyal, honest, trustworthy.

Under your circumstances you get the choice of keeping them or not. It’s a perfect to to purge unwanted baggage.


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## Marc878

Forgiveness. IMO it means it doesn’t matter to you anymore. It comes with time. It’s not as simple as saying “I forgive” and it magically goes away. It’s a good thing but it’s also wise not to forget. Unless you like getting burned again.

It’s one thing for someone to mistakenly wrong you but it’s a totally different ballgame if it’s an intentional wrong.


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## Diana7

Benbutton said:


> This is not true, you don't need to forgive OP. In time you will become apathetic, especially if your new relationship progresses. Just live your life knowing that illness has been removed from it.


If you want real peace about it forgiveness is needed.


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## Benbutton

Diana7 said:


> If you want real peace about it forgiveness is needed.


Nope. I have peace, I didn't forgive I just grew apathetic.


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## Diana7

Benbutton said:


> Nope. I have peace, I didn't forgive I just grew apathetic.


Apathy and inner peace are not the same.


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## SpinyNorman

If everyone in the world woke up every day angry at your ex, you wouldn't be any better off than you are now.

If my friends get the benefit of my other friends, it makes me happy. If my friends suffer from my enemies, it makes unhappy. They're my friends, not my henchmen.


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## BlueWoman

You are not alone in your feelings. One year after my divorce, I was still in a lot of pain, and I had to cut out friends that remained friends with my ex. If I could have stopped feeling that way, I would have. But the only thing that really made a difference was time and forcing myself to move on. It sounds like you pushed yourself to move on, but now you have got to give yourself time. How much time is needed is different for everyone. For me, I would say even 5 years later, it still hurt a lot. Although, that first year and a half was the most painful. I’m at 7 years now, and I just don’t care about my ex. I’m not angry or sad. I don’t wish him well, I don’t wish him ill. I just don’t care. And to get here, I just had to wait. 

And I know that what you asked about was about other people. But other people are never going to have the same emotional response as you do. Most of my friends still don’t have any idea how I felt. Most of them don’t understand how devastating it was. And you know what, I’m glad they don’t. I wouldn‘t wish what we (betrayed spouses) went through on anyone. Not even my ex husband.


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## GusPolinski

If your son knows your daughter likely does as well.
No worries, though — Mom likely has a whole spate of justifications for the cheating ready for your daughter.

With respect to friends, etc, you have to accept that most of them likely won’t care about why your marriage ended, as it didn’t impact any of them directly. Armed with this knowledge, all you can really do is decide which of them are valuable enough to you that you keep them in your life. If, OTOH, it seems that some of them don’t want anything to do with you, then congrats, that makes it all the easier for you to move on.


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## Al_Bundy

sokillme said:


> Her punishment is to be who she is. She loves without loyalty, she probably doesn't understand what love is at all. The next relationship she starts she will either have to lie about who she is or start with the potential mate wondering.
> 
> Once you really understand it, you actually feel bad for them.


Nailed it!


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## frenchpaddy

if your still dreaming of her and calling her my evil demon of an ex-wife. and worried if people around you will forget the things she did shows you have not put this in the past yet 
you have to go all the way through the process of grieving the relationship 

Shock and denial. This is a state of disbelief and numbed feelings.
Pain and guilt. ...
Anger and bargaining. ...
Depression. ...
The upward turn. ...
Reconstruction and working through. ...
Acceptance and hope.
often you will think you have got over it but deep down you will still be hurt , 
seems like you are lucky to have got out fest when you found she was not the girl you thought , 
it is easy for me to say take the time but I know it is never easy to take time and we all think we are recovered and better than we are , in how we feel ,

People have their own lives and their own problems they don't have time or often don't care what is going on around them 

I hope you take the positive things from your experience and and not bring what she did into your next relationships , 
yes you got a bad egg but thank god not all are like her , 

you will never forget her, just see what it was that you saw in her the very first time you saw her it might be what the others saw in her as well and now you know the true person behind that


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## Dictum Veritas

Diana7 said:


> If you want real peace about it forgiveness is needed.






Indifference is all that is required for ones own sake.


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## Benbutton

Diana7 said:


> Apathy and inner peace are not the same.


And you know I don't have inner peace how?


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## Arkansas

this web site, the information given me in my original post long ago helped me and the reason is - brutal honesty that everyone here gives

in return I try to be honest posting how I feel 

no, I've not forgiven her. I have tried, its something I know is a Christian trait but I'm more where Benbutton is - trying to be apathetic to it all and just not caring if she graduated, has a good job, her boy toy still etc

I don't have to pit my kids against her, my son knows most of it all, my daughter probably knows enough, they can esily see our family was destroyed by her adultery and we'll never have it back. I don't have to do anything more, I don't try to.



frenchpaddy said:


> Shock and denial. This is a state of disbelief and numbed feelings. *did that*
> Pain and guilt. ... *did that*
> Anger and bargaining. *did that*
> Depression. *did that*
> The upward turn. *did that*
> Reconstruction and working through. ... *doing that*
> Acceptance and hope.


I've accepted the loss of marriage and my family unit. Maybe your word "hope" is a key. Hope for what is what I'd ask. I'm 52 years old. I'm never going to believe in fairy tale, forever love again. That's not possible for me. I CAN love someone, be loved, be in a committed relationship that today and tomorrow is probably pretty secure but longterm? Aint nothing long term, I learned that and nothing will change my mind/view.

You posed a great question ... what is my hope. Hmmmmm ... striking question actually. I'm going to have to think on that



BlueWoman said:


> For me, I would say even 5 years later, it still hurt a lot. Although, that first year and a half was the most painful. I’m at 7 years now, and I just don’t care about my ex. I’m not angry or sad. I don’t wish him well, I don’t wish him ill. I just don’t care. And to get here, I just had to wait.


that rings true to me .... and seeing that ya'll kinda know how I'm feeling makes me feel ... well, normal to honest. the person I'm dating now, she didn't go through anything like this so she doesn't know the feeling. In fact, I don't know anyone who went through what I did, not like it went down. Divorced yes, but not with all the layers and so, it helps to see the responses here

thank ya'll for that, truly


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## frenchpaddy

Arkansas said:


> this web site, the information given me in my original post long ago helped me and the reason is - brutal honesty that everyone here gives
> 
> in return I try to be honest posting how I feel
> 
> no, I've not forgiven her. I have tried, its something I know is a Christian trait but I'm more where Benbutton is - trying to be apathetic to it all and just not caring if she graduated, has a good job, her boy toy still etc
> 
> I don't have to pit my kids against her, my son knows most of it all, my daughter probably knows enough, they can esily see our family was destroyed by her adultery and we'll never have it back. I don't have to do anything more, I don't try to.
> 
> 
> 
> I've accepted the loss of marriage and my family unit. Maybe your word "hope" is a key. Hope for what is what I'd ask. I'm 52 years old. I'm never going to believe in fairy tale, forever love again. That's not possible for me. I CAN love someone, be loved, be in a committed relationship that today and tomorrow is probably pretty secure but longterm? Aint nothing long term, I learned that and nothing will change my mind/view.
> 
> You posed a great question ... what is my hope. Hmmmmm ... striking question actually. I'm going to have to think on that
> 
> 
> 
> that rings true to me .... and seeing that ya'll kinda know how I'm feeling makes me feel ... well, normal to honest. the person I'm dating now, she didn't go through anything like this so she doesn't know the feeling. In fact, I don't know anyone who went through what I did, not like it went down. Divorced yes, but not with all the layers and so, it helps to see the responses here
> 
> thank ya'll for that, truly


 yes I do think after trusting a person so much and get it dumped back on you it is hard to fully open yourself and run the risk of the same hurt again


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## Arkansas

Marc878 said:


> Perfect thread on this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Friends? Probably not.
> 
> 
> Dear Chump Lady, I am 6 months post divorce after discovering my ex-wife’s infidelity in September 2013. This holiday season my children (12, 8) are with my ex-wife abroad with her affair partner on holiday with my ex in-laws. It sucks that my kids spend time with the man that helped break up my...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.talkaboutmarriage.com


wow


We live in an age where people are loathe to judge injustice. 
they did judge, they just found you unworthy. But they don’t want to come out and say that. 
Your grief isn’t nearly as important as their discomfort 
Infidelity only happens to those who deserve it, who do the Wrong Sorts of Things. Unlike the smug People Above Judgment who are immune from chumpdom

Those are so spot on but this one is the jewel ... Cheaters have many narratives, but the favorite is happiness. Hey, we deserve to be happy. Really this is for the best. Carlos, in time, will be happier too! He’ll find someone who is a better fit, and hey, really he owes to all to this life change made possible by infidelity. 

That's EXACTLY almost word for word what my ex told me on the day of our divorce. Her destruction of our family was going to make everyone happier, it was for the best, just wait and see !! I'd find someone who would make me happy!


I wondered for a long time if I was such a bad person, as she painted me to be in counseling, why would she wish another woman to be tied with someone as bad as me? truth was, it was self justification for her actions, nothing more, nothing less.




Thank you for that thread - wow, so true on so many levels the responses


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## Benbutton

Arkansas said:


> the person I'm dating now, she didn't go through anything like this so she doesn't know the feeling. In fact, I don't know anyone who went through what I did, not like it went down. Divorced yes, but not with all the layers and so, it helps to see the responses here


I see what you mean about your new relationship. I can honestly say some of the reasons I ended up remarried to the woman I'm with now was due in large part to her compassion, empathy, and knowing how important trust and communication are to me. That being said though, the number one reason we are so close was because she saw me going through the divorce, the infidelity and how much it impacted me. So while she didn't experience it herself, she witnessed what it did to me.


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## drencrom

Arkansas said:


> What bothers me is .... that my friends, family, her family ..... they're all going to eventually allow time to erase what happened or at least blur it all.


It may not be the first thing that comes to mind when they think of your X, but they will not forget what she did, trust me on that. I know several people that have cheated and even years later there are conversations that the occasional "cheating POS" type comments will come up.

Yes, over time people will forget, a little. But they will always remember what they did to you. But honestly, that shouldn't even be your biggest concern in life. You should concentrate on being happy.
Just take solace in the fact that if people don't want to brand her with the scarlet S, it doesn't change the fact of who she is. She will be someone else's problem. She is no longer yours. THAT is what should make you happy.


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## Marc878

Arkansas said:


> wow
> 
> 
> We live in an age where people are loathe to judge injustice.
> they did judge, they just found you unworthy. But they don’t want to come out and say that.
> Your grief isn’t nearly as important as their discomfort
> Infidelity only happens to those who deserve it, who do the Wrong Sorts of Things. Unlike the smug People Above Judgment who are immune from chumpdom
> 
> Those are so spot on but this one is the jewel ... Cheaters have many narratives, but the favorite is happiness. Hey, we deserve to be happy. Really this is for the best. Carlos, in time, will be happier too! He’ll find someone who is a better fit, and hey, really he owes to all to this life change made possible by infidelity.
> 
> That's EXACTLY almost word for word what my ex told me on the day of our divorce. Her destruction of our family was going to make everyone happier, it was for the best, just wait and see !! I'd find someone who would make me happy!
> 
> 
> I wondered for a long time if I was such a bad person, as she painted me to be in counseling, why would she wish another woman to be tied with someone as bad as me? truth was, it was self justification for her actions, nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for that thread - wow, so true on so many levels the responses


You got a big dose of:

*Blame-shifting* is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

in the case of infidelity friends/family are either for or against you. Make no mistake about that.
Definition of friend - loyal , honest, trustworthy.

The good thing in all this is you can just cut them off.

I know 3 who run a hard no contact with cheating x’s. Contact is limited to Texts or emails kids only.
Pickups/drop offs are 2-3 minutes.

It is your life. You get to make those rules. The only one who can make a chump out of you is yourself.


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## Rowan

I discovered, 21 years into our relationship, that the entire life I thought I'd had was mostly just a figment of my own imagination. My husband, it turns out, was an entirely unrepentant, and quite prolific, serial cheater. And had been for the over two decades we'd been together. So, yeah, that takes some sitting with to move past.

I do think forgiveness was important to my healing. But, let's be clear on what I and many other betrayed spouses think forgiveness is: It's being in a state where we no longer expect or even think we "deserve" recompense of any sort from our betrayers for their actions. In other words, we're no longer wanting them to pay, wanting everyone else to remember them for the POS they are, expecting others to immortalize our pain and "never forget". We don't even expect _ourselves_ to never forget, because martyrdom is a useless endeavor. Forgiveness, in this case, doesn't mean believing that what they did was okay or that you need to invite them back into your life. It just means no longer needing them to suffer for what they did to you.

As someone mentioned above, the opposite of love is _not_ hate, it's indifference. After the initial shock wore off and all the legalities and financials were sorted (as quickly as I could possibly manage them), I gave myself time. I talked to a therapist when I needed to, I read books on healthy relationships, I did a lot of self-discovery and soul searching, I talked to trusted friends when I needed to do that, I cried, I raged, I drank wine, I remodeled my entire house in an extended fit of directing negative emotional energy into work. He had stolen all of my adult life from me, the hopes and dreams I'd had, the family and the life I thought were mine, the future I'd been expecting, the life our son should have enjoyed.

But one day I just decided I was _entirely_ _unwilling_ to give him one more second or one more iota of _me_. So I let go of wanting him to pay, of hoping that he'd get what he deserved. I let go of allowing him to occupy my mind and my emotions. I let what he did, what he didn't do, go. I stopped holding on to my rage, my hate, my righteous indignation. I realized that there would never be any "payback" for it all. So I forgave the enormous debt I once believed he owed me. I let it, and him, go.

It takes time. It takes effort. It takes will. And it also takes _forgiving yourself_ for allowing things you probably shouldn't have, not picking better, not seeing the signs sooner, whatever your own "failings" or weaknesses were. 

I don't wish him ill, I don't worry about him, I don't think about him much at all, in fact, beyond the marginal headspace one affords to any other human you don't know and who doesn't impact your life. We are always cordial, even friendly, but we are not friends. His relationship with our son is not mine to manage or worry about.

For a long time now, there has been neither love nor hate, there is calm indifference.


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## Benbutton

Rowan said:


> But, let's be clear on what I and many other betrayed spouses think forgiveness is: It's being in a state where we no longer expect or even think we "deserve" recompense of any sort from our betrayers for their actions. In other words, we're no longer wanting them to pay, wanting everyone else to remember them for the POS they are, expecting others to immortalize our pain and "never forget". We don't even expect _ourselves_ to never forget, because martyrdom is a useless endeavor. Forgiveness, in this case, doesn't mean believing that what they did was okay or that you need to invite them back into your life. It just means no longer needing them to suffer for what they did to you.


This here fits my very definition of apathy. I. Just. Don't. Care. - As if she is just another passing stranger I happen to walk by on a city street. Just there, no ill will, no good will, no feelings at all.


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## Arkansas

Rowan said:


> He had stolen all of my adult life from me, the hopes and dreams I'd had, the family and the life I thought were mine, the future I'd been expecting, the life our son should have enjoyed.


see that rings very true for me 

I'm not to the point of indifference, I guess that's true. I have no desire to see or speak with her. I don't have a problem with judging like that response said many people do - I hate everything she became and did and who she became and want nothing to do with her.


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## joannacroc

I would say you have not moved on yet and that's ok - it takes time to process your feelings. When you get to a place where you let go of some of the hatred you will feel a lot more at peace - don't do it for your cheating ex, do it for you. You may still feel the judgment (I objectively see that my XH is a mess) but you won't feel anything about them, just indifference. When you get to that place you'll feel a lot better.


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## TXTrini

Arkansas said:


> I've accepted the loss of marriage and my family unit. Maybe your word "hope" is a key. Hope for what is what I'd ask. I'm 52 years old. I'm never going to believe in fairy tale, forever love again. That's not possible for me. I CAN love someone, be loved, be in a committed relationship that today and tomorrow is probably pretty secure but longterm? Aint nothing long term, I learned that and nothing will change my mind/view.
> 
> You posed a great question ... what is my hope. Hmmmmm ... striking question actually. I'm going to have to think on that


I understand this perfectly, it's something I am trying to address now. I'm in love with someone else who's also been through this and going through parental alienation NOW, 11 yrs later. So we've both been cheated on, had people turn their backs on us, but he has the added pain of having both of his children turn against him by his exWW who is married to her AP (they married 2 months after the divorce was final).

He's been instrumental in helping me to work through things, b/c he knows how damaging it was to him to hold onto the pain and rage. He wanted a better life for himself, now us and thankfully he's ok with me taking my time. My motivation is I don't want to ruin something that could be really wonderful because I could not let go of the past. He inspires me, b/c he's still looking to build a life with someone for the next 30-40 years and he's trying for it despite everything he's been through.

I'm still waiting for the "other shoe to drop", because my entire worldview shifted, but despite all of those fears and uncertainties, I decided not to think about my ex. Like Rowan, I was tired of wasting my time, energy and pain on someone who threw me out like a piece of garbage after I gave the best years of my life to him. Why would I want to continue to be a sucker for punishment? I decided I deserved better than that! You're seeing someone you think highly of, that's wonderful and lucky! Is she kind and supportive? 

There's just no putting the genie back in the bottle. Why would you want to anyway? For some morally bankrupt poser?
I am using my pain positively to become a better version of myself and share to hopefully help someone else instead of spending my energy wishing all sorts of nasty things on his head. The petty part of me of course hopes he will never change, he is his own worst enemy, but then that means inflicting this pain on another eventually, so I have to consciously redirect my mind when it happens. 

What helps me move forward every day is reminding myself of all the bad things that happened in my marriage, and why I am grateful to be free. Then I thought about everything I always wanted to do, but couldn't and remade new goals for my life. I went back to school to give myself more options, it's actually kind of nice not having to put someone else first in everything I do. Maybe I'm getting to like that too much, b/c I'm not super eager to live with another man in a hurry, no matter how I feel about my bf. 

Only you can determine the trajectory for your life and then try to put it into motion. Your children are grown and going their way, definitely think about your hopes for you. Life is too short to hold onto misery, we can die at any time. Do you want to die angry?


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## Marc878

If you cut off contact and purge everything you’ll move on much quicker. I have 3 friends who’ve done this and it works but takes time to get there. The sooner you start the quicker you’ll get there.


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## Arkansas

Marc878 said:


> If you cut off contact and purge everything you’ll move on much quicker. I have 3 friends who’ve done this and it works but takes time to get there. The sooner you start the quicker you’ll get there.


so when I decided my wife was dead, replaced with what ever she'd become and filed for divorce .... I stopped acknowledging her as even someone I knew. I never replied to texts, emails, nothing. I also stopped taking care of her, financially and such and all that I think came as a huge blow to her. I think in her mind, I'd still do things to take care of her. 

anyway, all that resulted in her truly hating me - and that's ok, I knew she would. Slight her and she would hate you for life, that was her motto

oddly enough, she doesn't think her slighting people should result in people hating her 

cut off - done
purging - done, I ever sold the house

I can't stop the dreams - never been able to control them. But maybe I just expect to 'get there' faster than anyone else. I've always done that - I told my surgeon I'd be running in 3 months after ACL surgery when he told me 5 ......... and I did. Maybe emotional surgery/recovery can't be rushed the same way


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## Marc878

Arkansas said:


> so when I decided my wife was dead, replaced with what ever she'd become and filed for divorce .... I stopped acknowledging her as even someone I knew. I never replied to texts, emails, nothing. I also stopped taking care of her, financially and such and all that I think came as a huge blow to her. I think in her mind, I'd still do things to take care of her.
> 
> anyway, all that resulted in her truly hating me - and that's ok, I knew she would. Slight her and she would hate you for life, that was her motto
> 
> oddly enough, she doesn't think her slighting people should result in people hating her
> 
> cut off - done
> purging - done, I ever sold the house
> 
> I can't stop the dreams - never been able to control them. But maybe I just expect to 'get there' faster than anyone else. I've always done that - I told my surgeon I'd be running in 3 months after ACL surgery when he told me 5 ......... and I did. Maybe emotional surgery/recovery can't be rushed the same way


Good job. You are way ahead of most. Who cares what she thinks.


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## Marc878

Time and no contact that should include her family, friends, etc. and your so-called friends that weren’t friends. You’ll be fine.


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## Goobertron

Arkansas said:


> I had another thread that I spoke of a 23 year marriage, and the devastating 9 month divorce process after I found about my evil demon of an ex-wife.
> 
> Here I am, over a year after the divorce was finalized. I'm dating a super nice lady. Financially I'm good, never knew my ex-wife was that costly. Stable job. I have had zero communications in months with the ex, I have no reasons to or plan to either. I'm not unhappy - I am active, I have a few closer friends, I am outgoing and do a lot of things.
> 
> Here is what's bothering me lately. As time goes on, people are going to forget all of what my ex did. I don't want to sound dramatic but, the person I was died in some ways. Those months ... pretty much shattered my believe in true love, vows, promises etc and I think that's normal when its that destructive. Those feelings of betrayal and the hurt and pain ...... its very fresh, its very real, it accompanies me everyday and often I dream about it all. I've had two stand out dreams, not good dreams. A recent trip I was on I think 3 of 4 nights I was dreaming of ex and all the cheating and hurting and stuff and it was awful.
> 
> What bothers me is .... that my friends, family, her family ..... they're all going to eventually allow time to erase what happened or at least blur it all. I understand that, it didn't happen to them directly but somehow .... that's very hurtful to me. My 19 year old son hates her and has no relationship, my daughter spends a lot of time with my ex though I'm not sure just how much my daughter really knows of what happened (she never wanted to know) .... while my son knows much about it.
> 
> Even as I type this out it seems, well, almost stupid to be feeling those things. My ex's relationships with other people, I shouldn't care much about but for some reason, it seems very important to me. I guess its almost like she's getting away with everything she did that was so terribly and awful and that seems exceptionally unfair.
> 
> Do ya'll know what I'm saying here? Any recommendations ? normal feelings, too weird ?


I was married for 8 years when my ex-wife initiated divorce, yes she'd been cheating but it was online. She kicked up a romance with some dude half way across the planet just for something to do while she sat at home all day and I worked long hours to support us both. It was expensive sex. I did get one son out of it so if I was King of England I'd be happy. I paid a lot in child support due to income. It's been longer than 8 years since we divorced and those payments stopped at the end of last year, but it still affects me. It's changed how I see true love - it doesn't exist. It's all about "feelings" and self-interest. 

However, that's not the only "bad romance" I've had. So I can't blame her. I'd given up on relationships before her as a very young man and she was my first long term relationship in about 8 years. My steady girlfriend prior to that had an affair with my best friend who used to come over after high school every day. He got her pregnant and abandoned her and I took her to the abortion clinic, as the "boyfriend". 

Heh she went back to him after - he never apologised or anything - he used to say "treat 'em mean. keep 'em keen" about her and the sad thing is it worked. She did cheat on him twice though and eventually ended up moving in with his boss heh I really can pick 'em. I guess he was a "Chad" back then, but he hasn't aged gracefully. My high-school sweet heart passed away from cancer two years ago. I dealt with a lot of emotions then and saw him at her funeral.

Yay bachelor life! You get to keep your money, you get to keep your sanity, a whole house to yourself, you can do whatever you want! This is a wonderful life. Don't be too quick to move on with someone else and have the same cycle of co-dependency, disappointment and heartbreak happen all over again. 

These days its really easy for a woman to dump a guy by text and go find another one on a dating website. True love like my grand parents had is a thing of the past if it ever existed. A lot of married couples stuck it out because they couldn't afford financially or socially to do it. 

There was a lot of shame, that's not the case anymore at all. Try not to "blame" her for what she did there's a saying AWALT. They all do it, they just blame it on the guy - so they didn't really cheat. "They just weren't getting what they needed from the relationship". If you give someone everything they want it makes them miserable. Long term relationships are ironic.


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## 342693

Very similar thing happened to me. Was deeply in love and wife cheated. To make matters worse, she married the guy. I wanted her tattooed with a big "A" for adultery on her forehead and everyone to know what she did. I was telling this to my Christian counselor one day and he said "I get it, you want her to pay. And she will. But not on your schedule and not by your hands". Not sure of your faith, but that has stuck with me until today, 12 years later. I actually feel somewhat sorry for her now knowing she has to live with that secret eating away at her. 

So get on with your life brother....don't let it burn you inside anymore. She's not worth it. It sounds like you met a nice woman, so take your time getting to know her, but don't assume she's going to cheat just because your ex did. It will take you a while to be able to trust again, but the right woman will do that. Best of luck!


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## Arkansas

SCDad01 said:


> Very similar thing happened to me. Was deeply in love and wife cheated. To make matters worse, she married the guy. I wanted her tattooed with a big "A" for adultery on her forehead and everyone to know what she did. I was telling this to my Christian counselor one day and he said "I get it, you want her to pay. And she will. But not on your schedule and not by your hands". Not sure of your faith, but that has stuck with me until today, 12 years later. I actually feel somewhat sorry for her now knowing she has to live with that secret eating away at her.
> 
> So get on with your life brother....don't let it burn you inside anymore. She's not worth it. It sounds like you met a nice woman, so take your time getting to know her, but don't assume she's going to cheat just because your ex did. It will take you a while to be able to trust again, but the right woman will do that. Best of luck!



I relate to that - the big A tattoo

I imagine what life is for her and her boy toy ..... I mean, she knows he's a cheater, he'll commit adultery when he wants to, he'll lie and manipulate to get what he wants. He knows obviously she'll abandon her family, lie, cheat etc, break vows, promises, be unfaithful etc..... how can either ever not think they other will do the same to them? And the kicker, when she looks at him, doesn't she think every time she killed her relationship with her son for him ?

When I think like that, I smile a bit, knowing what a horrible reality that would be. 

But I admit to thinking everyday about it all. I never understood how bad things can haunt someone all their lives. I'll see my lady on facebook messenger and wonder if she's got a side guy .... but that's easy to deal with because I'm not married, she can do whatever she wants to and while it'd hurt a bit, we're not married.

Its amazing the damage adultery does, far far more than I ever knew ..... me, my son, daughter, family, her family.... and it doesn't disappear


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## MattMatt

@Arkansas are you in counselling?


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## Arkansas

MattMatt said:


> @Arkansas are you in counselling?


counseling for me was a joke - it was a series of the counselor giving my wife new excuses for deeply hidden things that she could use for justifying her actions and of course led to blaming on me.....the 1 on 1 I had was me talking and the woman telling me things I already knew for the most part - it wasn't eye opening, I didn't really receive anything back and at $100-150 an hour or more?

no thanks, been there, done that

I'm sure it helps a lot of people, maybe if I looked and found the right counselor I could get something out of it. I simply don't want to try all that. I'm a pretty strong person, and lately I'm realizing things and seeing myself differently than I ever have. Hopefully that's growth and at the least, its realization at 52 years old what life really is and isn't. I've said before that the turning point was realizing my wife had died, replaced with this new person who was horrible and evil 

I realize now I died too. That person I was is gone. I 100% knew with all my heart and soul that our vows and trust and love was solid - I was wrong. When that reality is absorbed, there are parts of a person that die. I could have never have been told I was wrong - I had to live it. 

I don't know who I am now, figuring that out.


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## Marc878

Typical rugsweeping marriage counseling. These people are not gods. Many are more harmful than good.

Sorry you got stuck with a moron. That’s why a lot versed in infidelity advise to seek IC if you need it but stay away from MC.


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## sideways

Arkansas how are your son and daughter doing?

Has your son heard from your ex?

Is daughter communicating with your ex at all?


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## Arkansas

sideways said:


> Arkansas how are your son and daughter doing?
> 
> Has your son heard from your ex?
> 
> Is daughter communicating with your ex at all?


Daughter is struggling - abortion, then her drug dealing boyfriend was murdered in a drug deal gone bad, then she was arrested 2 days before Christmas .... but she's got 22 hours from a degree and I'm helping her best I can.

She needed money for a lawyer and court costs and I told her ask her mom. Daughter said mom wouldn't help and I said ok, I'll intervene because 50% of kids costs are split, thats in the divorce. It can be argued if these costs are valid but that's another matter. Anyway, I hit ex up and said hey, we can help our daughter here, get her on the right track and she replied " I have an ethical disagreement with this" and I was like WTF ?

So I replied back and said fine, you call and explain to your daughter why you won't help. Next day daughter said she'd called and said yeah, its not about the money, its about her not being truly sorry and apologetic for her actions. Truth is, my daughter isn't very apologetic, but really? My ex can talk ethics and being sorry? wow. So I texted her and said yeah, talked about you with daughter today and out kids know exactly who you are now. Way to abandon your daughter. Note - I sent the ex $1400 in stimulus a few weeks back, it was right thing to do. So for $1100 more ($2500 for each of us) she could have supported her daughter, no strings attached, jut trying to be there best she could. She chose not to. 

So I paid it all - and that's ok, I've spent more $ on a caribou hunt to northern Canada, but its the fact that the ex has to have her daughter act/behave a certain way or else she'll not support her based on ethics/morals. Unreal !!


My son says he hasn't talked to her any in months. He hates her still, he's very bitter about how she treated him, and then me and our family. He's good, military now, has a life plan.


As for talked to ex, I sent her two texts and that's all the communication I've had. As I understand it, she did graduate college and passed her engineering exam - she earned that. I do not know if she has a job, where she lives, with that adultery kid or not etc. 



Its unhealthy, but I think about it every day. I never understood that. I had some trauma as a 6-7 year old kid, but it didn't haunt me. This thing does, the breaking of vows, of faith and trust. I trusted one person ever in my life, only one and that one person was the one I was dedicated to, who would always be there true and loving. To have that destruction at a core soul level ..... I don't know how people get beyond it. Hopefully someday I will. until then, I plan for today, tomorrow ... a few events in the future but other than that, I don't feel safe to do it. Life changes, that's the fact I've grown to understand now.


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## sideways

Arkansas, that's a lot going on.

I'm going to suggest a sermon to listen to by TD Jakes. Go to YouTube and look for:

Heart full of grief and a horn full of oil.

I truly think it will help you.


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## Evinrude58

Counseling was useless to me as well.
Hoping you reach the point of indifference soon.
There is bound to be a person out there that helps you believe in love again. Wishing you luck finding that person. Yes, when this happens, it wrecks your whole view of life.
I am lucky that I have a handful of people in my life that ARE loyal and reinforce my belief that some people do truly love others. If ts out there.


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