# HELP! Stay or Go???



## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Help! I have been going through some tough times and need some advive. I have been married for 15 years(I got married to my h/s sweetheart). I have thought about leaving before, but I think I'm afraid to be on my own. We've fought a lot lately, leaving us speaking little on a daily basis. He is a work-a-holic and deosn't come home in the evenings, making the night long with 2 kids, leaving me to care for them, prepare and eat supper and get them to bed alone, leaving me exhausted. He comes home between 10Pm and 2 AM, depending on what he's working on. If we fight about his family, he never sees the wrong they do, he always turns it around, making me feel like I did wrong. I usually don't even mention anything about his family anymore because I know we will just fight. We didn't have kids for 8 years, but when we did, I thought it would strengthen our marriage and I would be his first priority, instead of his mom or sister. Wrong! We rarely do anything together. He isn't very social, while I am, after being home all day with just the kids. I have to beg him to take me out to eat or for an evening out away from the kids. He doesn't understand why I need a break from them. He feels happy to spend any time with them and thinks I sholuld feel the same. He is a great dad, but needs work in the husband depatment. He hates the holidays and other social events. He lacks in the romance department, also. Our fifteenth anniversary was in December, I suggested he call a few weeks ahead of time to make a dinner reservation, which he didn't. When we did go out that evening, he asked me where I wanted to eat. I told him I wanted to eat at the restaruant that we ate at the night we got married(we eloped because HE wanted to). He replied "Why? It's not like it's a big anniversary, 15 or 20 years or anything." I was mad, so I told him to choose. Another problem is his obsessiveness with porn. He hides his magazines, which I usually find. If I leave home and come back, the computer is littered with porn. I hate that he tries to hide it from me. The websites he goes on are nasty. It is such a turn-off to me that I won't give him sex on the night that I find it. It makes me insecure about my body, as it is not what it was before kids, although I am not overweight, just the baby pooch. We fight about his porn problem a lot, he tells me that all men like naked women. But I think if you are married, you should just be looking at one naked woman, your wife. Over the course fo our marriage, I have gone through a couple of depression periods. I have never thought about suidcide, I know that doesn't solve problems. I have always thought about leaving. I have always been able to get back to normal on my own, though it takes time, willpower and support. Things will go good for a while, until I start to feel normal, then things go back to same ol', same ol'(no time together). To add to the problem, I had a little job one day a week, to get out of the house, I met a guy there, very nice, handsome, older. We had good, short conversations. He was going through a divorce and shared some things. Just small talk, then flirting. Over the course of 3 years, we found ourselves enjoying each other, talking on the phone almost daily. We shared lots of things, discovering we got along really well. My hsuband found out about him and wanted to end the marriage immedialtely. He calmed down after a couple of days, we talked, I went through a little depression thing. We made some changes, going out once a month, without the kids, for example. Things were going good. As the summer got closer and he got busier, things went back to the way they were(as usual) and I found myself missing my friend. I called him, he was happy to hear from me. We talked, he told me that things can't go on like this. He didn't want to do to another family what had been done to his. But he does agree that I deserve better. So my question is this.....Do I stay in a marriage that doesn't do anything for me anymore for the sake of the kids or do I try to better my life by leaving? Please help me!


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## GPR (Jan 3, 2009)

Ask yourself this: If he did MOST of the things that you want him to, would you still consider leaving him?

If yes, then you've started to answer your question...

If no, now it's a new set of questions.

1.) Can things get better through some effort?
2.) Am I willing to go through the stress and work it will take to make things better?
3.) Would he be willing to do the same (even if it took the threat of me leaving)?

Then, the hardest part, figuring out how to do it..


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

In all honesty, I'm not sure if he DID do most of the things I wanted if I would stay. I feel like my feelings have changed. I'm not sure if it is because of the lack of romance, his not standing up for me, or what exactly or even a combination of mistakes thru the years. I just don't feel much for him when I look at him, I just feel empty and lonely. I feel like I have put a lot of effort, time, patience, tolerance and compromise into this relationship. Not saying he hasn't, but lately I feel he's pasted up a few opportunities. He has always been willing to make changes, but never permanent changes, things always go back to the way they were. He is not willing to go to counseling, he says he doesn't need anybody to tell him how to solve his problems and live his life. Now, being older, I think we are just 2 very different people and its catching up with us.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

sounds like you already made up your mind 3 years ago when you started this emotional affair with the other guy. maybe i just did not understand your post, maybe there is more to it then you put but you should be grateful for your husband but you are not. i dont see anything he is doing as divorce reasons, and i cant understand why you feel like you need one. it seems to me that you want a divorce and want someone to agree with you. 

i can understand being lonely, right there actually myself. but that is not a reason to divorce. 2 kids? that is nothing. if he works and spends time with the kids when he is off work what is the problem? becsuse he doesnt take you out to eat after he spent all day working? because he is not romantic? so you be romantic and bring it into the marriage. if you want a date out with your husband then plan it. get a babysitter, ask him what night is good for him, fri or sat. find out what movies are on, and go. what is the big deal? oh right, you found your soul mate with the other guy who is getting a divorce and you want to be with him. you think the grass is greener on the other side. 

sorry, i cant agree with you. i dont think your husband is in the wrong here. you are. if you are lonely, take a class, take the kids to the library where you can meet other stay at home moms and go on play dates, get a part time job where you can feel productive without coming on to your coworkers. you expect your husband to fulfill your ever whim, but what do you do for him except complain and moan and groan that the kids are too much and you are "bored" staying at home. you want to be the victim, and are not doing anything to fix your own issues. if you start working to make your marriage the way you "dream" it could be, i bet he would respond. yes, it would be nice if he expressed himself more, but most men dont do a great job with that. 

but since you already made up your mind to move on, regardless of your children or husband feelings, then good luck.


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

I have not already made my decision. That's why I'm on here asking for advice. I DO feel grateful for my husband, but at the same time, I need more from him. Lonely is not a reason for divorce, I agree. I know that marriage takes two and I am only one. We have always had fights, never communicated well. We have never been best friends, we don't share everything with each other. As far as the romance goes, I've done plenty over the years. I thrive on the "little things" and have tried to tell him and show him, but if he does try, he forgets to keep doing. I have been begging him to go to a Nascar race for years and he tells me it costs too much money. We would have to travel 4 hours, could find tickets for less than $100 apiece and could probably spend less than $700 for a weekend away. Last week he asked how mad I would be if he went hog hunting with buddies, Valentine's Day weekend(fri-mon), 6 hours away, cost: $550. What would you say? To me, I just don't feel like I am a priority anymore. As far as the other guy is concerned, we haven't spoken in a while. He has told me his priority is his little boy and that's all he is focusing on. I'm not leaving to be with him. I just wonder, maybe there IS someone out there who can give me all of the "little things."


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

ahhhh, now that makes sense! as i am in the same boat as you with most of that. I didnt get that from the first post, sorry.

i know what you mean when you say you need more from him and dont feel like the priority. And i used to thrive on the "little things" also, but at least he "tries". your still blessed with that too. mine dont even try even if i tell him exactly what to do or say. 

Sounds like a great weekend, $700 sounds like a bit much but if you can afford it plus seeing NASCAR would be cool. room and board too? not bad. 

Yep, I am total with you on that one. it would piss the hell out of me when i would tell david to do things with us on his days off and find out he scheduled fixing someone car or doing some other kind of little job. i told him, i would prefer spending time with him and the kids rather then the extra money. I think he would rather be anywhere else but in the house or with me and the kids. So now, i take the extra money and go do things with my kids by myself. if he complains, i remind him of whatever activity we recent did without him because he choose to change the brakes instead of going with us. 

So what did you say to his can i go off with the guys question? I dont see a problem with him wanting to go off with the guys, just that he "forgot" your request altogether, is the problem. i am with you there. But maybe you are looking at it the wrong way, i always try to figure out how to make everyone happy. And you can use this to your benefit. Tell him, sure honey, I can scarifice my Valentines Day weekend with you to go hunting. However, or IF you agree to go with me in march or next weekend or whatever to the Nascar weekend. (make sure you know what day and time they are running so you can nail him to that date) Oh, and i know i would have said something of course, how that kind of sucks that i have been wanting and waiting to do something with him for months and the first his buddies want to do something, he jumps at the chance and see what he says. i dont have the corrrect answer, and i doubt there is one. but i would be personally, be courious to what david would say.

And yea, you "might" or probably would find someone out there who can and would give you all those "little things" but i can guarantee you would have a whole new set of problems, he might not work, or bathe or something. So it might not work out the way you want, but i understand and know the desire to have what you want from the one you are with. Especially when you are asking so little from them and they cant seem get it. 

how old are your kids, BTW. right now i am holding on only for my littlest one who is 3. it is a continuous effort to get my marriage to work. and to get my husband involved. and as much as i hate the thought of counseling, i think that is our next step. i am trying to wait for a few years anyhow, till the littlest one is a little bit older before i tear up his world. and deep down, i am still hoping my husband pulls his head out.

good luck


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks for understanding. Sorry I was a little unclear at first. There is so much, its hard to include it all. The only time my husband "tries" is after we've had a big blowout about the "little things." He won't even buy me gifts or just a card for any holiday, anniversary or birthday. He thinks its just a waste of money because I should already know how he feels about me. Well, to me, its the thought that counts, I don't need a diamond ring every holiday for me to know how he feels. He just doesn't get it. Plus, I worry about what it teaches the kids, you know, daddy not buying mommy a birthday present??? I would rather have him take the cards to buy me a card, at least they would learn about giving. BTW, my kids are 6.5 and 2. As far as the Nascar weekend, I've given him plenty of ideas, he just doesn't seem to want to go anywhere with me. I mentioned taking the kids to see my brother who lives 3 hours away for a couple of days over spring break, he said we need to stay home cuz we will be too busy. But not too busy to go hunting, I guess. I really don't mind if he goes on the trip. I've already thought about the advantages of that. I have a sister that just moved to MN and a niece getting married this fall in Cancun. I'm ENCOURAGING him to go. Besides, it will be nice to be with the kids, without dad around, for a few days, doing what WE want to do. I do have a new problem that I can't seem to figure out yet. Yesterday we had a fight. He told me he was tired of hearing about looking at porn on the internet. He also threw in the fact that at least he didn't have a "boyfriend" like I did. I'm not sure why he pulled that out, it hasn't been brought up for over a year and a half. It's old news, where as the porn on the internet is current. Today, I checked the history and seen he had been checking out my facebook. I questioned him about it, he said he had never been on before and wanted to just check it out. I think because we are not having sex, that he thinks I am cheating on him, which I did inforn him is not the case. I just have a hard time giving it to him when he's looking at nasty stuff on the internet. Am I being stingy? I'd be willing to give it to him if he'd quit watching other naked women getting themselves off.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

i know what you mean about so much happening that you cant get it all in, last year was a horrible year for me to which finally landed me on this site, looking for answers just like you. (have you seen MY post, it is ages long, lol)

I am right with you on the "little things" but like i said at least your does something after you tell or ask or fight about it. mine does none of the things i ask, beg, or fight about. so please count yourself as lucky, because i would give anything to have mine do just one thing. 

I also have the same thoughts about birthday, valentines day and holidays. and i have also told mine that he could just take the time to get me a f'kn card, 2.00 and some time. this is where we differ a little, mine does at least do that. and possibly because i made such a stink about it, he gets me what i ask for on christmas and birthdays. i gave up hinting, or saying oh i like that thing. forget it, i just flat out tell him, i want a whatever for christmas/birthday and he does get it for me. However, reflecting back, i guess we put too much stock in a little card. does he do other things to show he cares? mine doesnt. so the cards dont mean as much anymore. my parents have been together for 45 years, and my dad has never got my mom a card. when i mentioned that problem to her, she said so what. that is a stupid thing to cry about. looking at it full circle, yes, actually it is. i am not as hung up about it as i used to be. if i want a special dinner for our anniversery, i call for reservation at the restrauant i want. and we go. the end result...well i get what i wanted and i spent some time with him. try not to let it bother you so much. some guys just dont think about it, and if he does other things then maybe that is something you can sacrifice and get over. You mentioned he is a great dad, and i hope you realize how blessed you are with that. mine isnt. that alone, to me anyhow, is worth a million cards. i wouldnt worry so much about what it is teaching the kids, even thou they learn mostly by example, it doesnt matter who is doing the exampling. if you make birthdays, holidays special, if you make a big deal about getting daddy a gift. they will learn the lesson of giving from you, when they get older they will see how daddy is on their own. And sometimes we just have to accept people for what they are. yes, daddy doesnt give mommy gifts, and as they get older they might even understand that it hurts mommy, but they also have this great dad doing other things, if at least for them. when i was a teenager, i would get mad at my dad for not getting my mom a card or flowers or a gift. but like i said it wasnt until i was in my 20's that i actually understood the full circle of it. You also might try the christmas tree, or giving to the homeless in your area. that is a lesson they never forget. and yes, it makes more work for you, but if it is important to you that they learn this lesson, it is worth the extra effort. 

I am also struggling with trying to get my husband to do things with me. i cant even get mine to talk to me, about important things. we can talk about the weather, cars, or what is going on in his job, he nevers asks me about mine. i also struggle with getting him more involved with the kids. i have to tell him to do anything with them, play catch, take them to the park. and sometimes he actually does this, other times he dont. since it is important to me to do family time, i plan for family outings. biking, hiking, park whatever, he is free to come, and does on several occasions, however if he dont want to then it is no big deal. for a while, it was actually better if he didnt go, because he always harped on some small issue (kids spilling coke, not eating, or nickpicking each other) and it would put us all in a bad mood. i finally told him not to come if he is going to be like that, and thankfully when he does come, he still gets mad and we can tell but he doesnt harp on it. usually because i step in and move away from him and distract the kids with something else. I also try to do things that david is interested in, so he is more likely to participate. i know how much it hurts when your husband doesnt do anything with you and i dont have an answer. but i am responsible for my own happiness and if i cant get it from him, i get it other ways. still holding on for a miricle thou and we used to talk about it often. my mom says that is all you can do, communicate. tell him what you feel. maybe someday it will sink in. 

So are you going to be busy on spring break? doing what? if he dont want to go to your brothers, then i suggest you going without him. it will do you some good to get out, yes it would be nicer if he went with but if that is not going to happen, then make it happen for you and the kids. again, your kids will learn by your actions and will become better at making themselves happy and not so dependant on someone else to make them happy. you might tell him that you would love him to go, but if he doesnt then you are still going without him, that might wake him up. have you asked him what he wants from the marriage? is doesnt sound like he puts the same values on things that you do, and there is nothing wrong with that. but since it bothers you so much you need to tell him so and tell him you expect him to met you halfway. 

I am completely with you about the porn, although i do feel you take to another level then i do. my big thing is yes, the porn online is disgusting depending on what site you go on (most are just sex, but there are other stuff too, what kind of sites does yours do? )and the magazines too, and i will never look like that, but my thing is i dont want my kids to run across it. but i dont have the same issue you do, online porn is addicting (as well as disgusting) and depending on the sites he goes on, it might be some underlining issue with him and maybe you and/or him might need to look for some help for that. such as kiddie porn, animal porn. there is nothing normal about those things but it is just guy/girl or guy/girl/girl porn well that unfortuately is normal and some guys need to get stimuated that way. it is also possible that his increase on porn site come from the fact that you are not giving it to him. and i am sorry, but i have to agree with him to a point. better porn then a real woman. and i was just told that the best way to get to a man, is to have sex with him. you need to give in and give him some. at least try it and see if it helps. (again, i am basing this only if the porn site are regular and not perverted or unnatural; naked women getting themselves off is not that bad, it could be worse) 

And again, old news as it might be, it hurt him when you turned to another man, and it will take a long time to get over it. and yes, more then likely he is thinking that since you are not having sex with him, then you are having sex with someone else. dont know why guys think that way but they do. it is just the way they are programmed. as long as you keep holding out on him, he is not going to get past that. the more unavailable you are, the more attractive the online porn is, the more available and accessible you are, the better he feels about everything. it is not their stomachs to a mans heart, but with sex. it is their driving goal. unlike us women, who value the "little things". i hope you can find a way to get past your disgust and make love or just have sex with him, please dont get me wrong, i am right there with you on that one too. although for very different reasons, i am also having a hard time having sex with my husband, in fact have not done so in 4 months. if you check my blog, marktwain had some very good points regarding that part of my relationship. and i am planning on making that first step soon, if not possibly tonight. i still dont think it is the answer to my problem, but okay, it might just be the first step. I wouldnt say you are being stingy, maybe feeling unsexy or feeling he is unworthy of such a special act (right there myself) is more like it. and you will need to get over that and take the first step. (easier said then done, i know)

me and you are on the same river, just in different boats. hopefully some of what i said makes sense and is helpful to you. and you are not as offended as you were at my posts in the beginning. i am very brutally honest and have a hard time toning it down, so i know i came off hostile in the beginning. (and i admit i still have trouble with the calling and talking with the coworker, even if i can see and understand the how and the why it started, sorry) some of what was said to me made sense and has gotten me redoing my path of thinking.

good luck and keep in touch.


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## Mackey (Feb 2, 2009)

I'd like to offer a man's perspective on this issue, as many of the things you speak of sound very familiar with my situation. Let me 1st start by saying that I tripped across this particular thread while doing a Google search on 'considering divorce', as I too have been unhappy for some time and just don't know whether I even want to bother trying anymore. Some of what I will be saying may sound weird or crazy, but I'm going to bring it from my perspective so bear with me...

I too will be married 15 yrs. this year. Shortly after the 1st year and 1st child, however, I began feeling neglected and unloved. I have always been one to do anything for her and spoiled her since dating, and I have to think that it became a matter of being expected and unappreciated after a while. I would take her car and fill it with gas because she needed it, and when she was in financial straits I helped sell her car and let her use mine because I had access to another. I let her move in with me because she couldn't afford her rent anymore, and had maxed out credit cards which I worked with her in getting them all paid off in full.

Fast forward to about our 2nd year of marriage; it seemed that now that we had a child, I was no longer an item of interest. No more did I feel important, that she was attracted to me, or interested in me. The "little things" you mention were no longer in play. I often tried bringing this to her attention, but I was made to feel like I was crazy for feeling this way and that maybe I was too "needy". 

As these stories go, I ended up meeting someone that took a great deal of interest in me and had an affair. I know this isn't a solution to my marriage problems but it filled the voids created. This was ultimately confessed to, during which I learned from her that, during the time she was living with me and I thought everything was perfect, she was secretly seeing another man while I was out of town at training (I came home weekends and called her every night). I was floored that she felt inclined to do this while living with me and while everything was 'perfect'. She voiced no concerns or complaints about our relationship (as I had been doing prior to my affair) which makes it even more confusing as to why she was doing this.

Needless to say, counselors and years later, we worked through it and had a couple more kids. Our relationship was 'generally ok' although it seemed clear it'd never be what it was; I accepted this as a 'casualty of marrige' that probably everyone goes through. 

Some of the problems, from I guess a man's perspective, is some of the following (this may address the porn issue somewhat): Prior to the marriage, she did things to try and be 'sexy' like wearing stocking under her work skirts when she knew she'd see me, lingerie in the bedroom, and things of this nature. Since being married, this came to a screeching halt. Even though I would take the trouble to buy things for her, she refused to wear it and to date has a drawer full of lingerie dating 15+ yrs. old. Men are very visual creatures and like seeing things that turn us on, and if we aren't seeing it from our significant other we seek it from other avenues. Playboy hasn't been around for 5 decades with millions of subscribers just because they have 'great articles'. Enter Maxim & FHM mags that are basically mags with pics of hot women dressed sexy, with snippets of trivia facts and mundane articles just so they can call it a magazine. As for the porn- you say you aren't having sex with him, and when you are he probably feels 'disconnected' and can tell you really aren't into it. When he sees porn, he's watching women that (are acting) like they're really into the sex and enjoying it, and I'm sure he's living vicariously though watching this happen on the net. You should know that watching porn takes NOTHING away from you, although you may feel that it does. It's not as though he'd rather watch porn and replace you with it; conversely, he'd rather be with you acting out what he's watching, if you were responding (honestly) in the ways he sees the women respond to the men in the porn. It matters not that you may not have the 'porn body' they do, because he loves you and wants to know that you WANT him and are attracted to him.

As for me, I can tell you that typically when I come home from work my wife and I barely speak; she doesn't greet me with a kiss when I walk in (she's a home-maker) and we generally don't really even talk, sometimes literally. There HAVE been times when she was very attentive to me when I came home, & I will tell you that makes all the difference in the world. I felt totally different about her, and her affection and interest in me somehow subconsciously made me want to be affectionate to her- it made me want to touch her, caress her, massage her.. even if we were just standing together in the kitchen. I love when she's like that, but it's very rare. My point is that you have the power to make a dramatic change, but when the man doesn't feel wanted he shuts down and doesn't feel like initiating it. I don't know if that's built into our DNA or something but her actions can have such a dramatic change on how I feel towards her I can think of no other explanation.

It's been a long while since this has happened, and again I have expressed directly and indirectly my dismay at my perceived disinterest in me. Again, 15 yrs later, I'm again told maybe I'm 'too needy' and that I'm 'being stupid' for feeling she isn't attracted or interested in me. This based on not talking, not kissing, not being touched, not wanting to be intimate with me for weeks at a time, and when we are intimate it's usually after she's had drinks.

Now, this situation may help address the 'boyfriend from work' one you had, and that he brought it up recently unprovoked: I had a good male friend that's divorced. He's very gregarious, outgoing, attractive, and has one of those personalities that he can strike up conversations with total strangers and they like him (I'm usually the opposite, quite and aloof around people.. unless I've been drinking). Every Sunday my wife and I stop at a restaurant while our kids attend church; this is our 'date night' and typically it involved having a few drinks and idle chitchat followed by long periods of silence sometimes because we'd have literally nothing to really talk about.

She knew about my friend as I'd talk about him but hadn't met him, and suggested I invite him to join us once and I did. Of course he was an immediate hit; he can talk for hours, usually all about himself and with no interruptions. She enjoyed his company and suggested he join us regularly on these nights; she is a very social person and likes meeting and talking with people, and because I like hanging out with him I thought this was a way for both of us to have fun and be social and have some laughs. In fact, she thought she would try and help set him up with some single girlfriends we know and had his cell number.

As the weeks passed I could see a definate change in her demeanor when he showed up. It's hard to articulate, but when he showed up she 'lit up' and you could see she was smitten by his conversation and literally hung on every word. I remember when she used to do this with me, but now I found myself almost watching from the outside as this happened.

I had a tough decision for any man or woman to make; I could be immature and be angry about it and stop inviting him to join. But what did I already learn through experience? I learned that men, or women, will do what they want to do regardless- she snuk around with another man while living with me, and I'd snuk around and had an affair while we were together. I do anything I can to see her be happy, and since it seemed he was renewing her otherwise nonexistant 'spark' figured I'd try to be mature about it and, for lack of a better word, 'encourage' it.

So, now he's meeting us weekly and she talks to him (via txt) during the week. The spark is there and she's interested in me and doing things in bed she hadn't done not only in years, but ever! I felt I'd struck gold and was glad for my decision. Now, during our nights out he'd make suggestive 'joking' comments and we'd all laugh together, but I later learned she was also doing this with him during their txts because he told me and didn't want it to cause an issue in our friendship.

Again, I had a tough decision on whether to have him shut it down or allow it to continue. I was reaping the rewards of her new-found excitement, and again remembering that people do what they want considered that at least I was going to be on the inside with what was being said instead of it happening behind my back. I told him that I didn't have a problem with it and to go ahead (although personally I began to have a problem with it, constantly thinking about it and wondering what she was saying). She even asked him for a pic, reportedly so she could show her single girlfriends what he looked like, and the one he took with just a towel in front of him covering himself was a major turn on for her, which she made no secret of. I should note that this was bothersome to me because here she was telling me how 'hot' she thought he was, while NEVER telling me the same nor ever thinking or being interested in asking that I take one of myself for her. I would occasionally ask what they talked about and she'd always downplay the sexually charged txts as 'jokes', saying little pieces here and there but how they weren't a big deal. I would ask directly if they turned her on or made her want to be with him, but was basically laughed at and told I was ridiculous and "of course not!" but I privately knew better.

Needless to say, this went on for a while and I accidentally intercepted an email or txt (she sent the txt to my cell instead of the intended friend) basically saying she was jealous of the girl she'd set him up with and all she wanted was to 'have him for 1 hour'. Of course, I didn't feel I should say this bothered me, having been told how 'needy' I am, so I kept it to myself. On one of our meeting nights I actually snapped a pic of her just gazing at him- it was the kind of look you see girls get at a concert while staring at the lead singer.. totally smitten and oblivious to their surroundings. She was, as Trekkie nerds say, 'locked into his tractor beam'.

On this same night, more drinks were consumed than normal and we ended up at a bar. They had some private conversations and I (weeks later) learned that she tried kissing him when I'd went to the restroom but he'd stopped her because there were too many people around that knew us.  Anyway during another trip to the restroom I came back out and they weren't around. I asked someone I knew if they'd seen them and was told they were out front in his vehicle. I looked outside and saw his brake lights on, both inside but it was an suv w/dark windows and I couldn't see inside.

My heart was going a mile a minute, but so not to appear psycho I txtd him and asked what was up. He said she wanted to go to his place and that I should follow, but to give him 10 mins before entering to allow compensation for nervousness but assured me nothing would happen and I wouldn't be missing anything. I followed at a safe distance as they drove to his apt, and parked watching them walk up the stairs to his door. I'll tell you that 10 mins felt like 10 hrs., but literally at the stroke of 10 mins I walked in the door and didn't see them but saw several closed doors. The 1st 2 I entered were vacant, then I opened the 3rd to see him laying on his back in bed with my wife on top ****ing him. I was frozen. I literally didn't know what to do- whether to leave, watch, walk out, etc. I guess I considered this as a possibility but never really thought it would actually transpire. 

On one hand I was sort of glad because here I was 'on the inside' knowing 1st hand that it was happening, yet on the other wishing I wasn't there and didn't know about it at all! This hasn't happened again, mainly because as soon as it was over HE was weirded out by it (which of anyone being weirded out I would've thought, in order, it would be me, her, and then him since he's a single guy) but he basically stopped contacting either of us and since then I haven't heard from him at all.

I initally tried taking this negative and turning it into something positive, trying to look at it from perspective of "well this was something that you wanted and turned you on and made you feel good, so maybe we can work that into something positive for us" but while trying to do so she said 'I must have had way too much to drink to have done that and I don't really want to think about it anymore'. As I've said earlier, it clearly wasn't a matter of having too much to drink but I do think the drinks took away the inhibitions and allowed her to follow through with something she'd clearly been dying to do for some time.

Now that he's out of the picture, things are back to how they were before- seemingly disinterested in intimacy, and the one time we were started in my sleep by me.. I guess I must have been dreaming and touching her in my and her sleep and it just happened; had we been awake, nothing would've happened.

I constantly think about how switched on she was when he was around, and how it was obvious it was all him that turned her on and I was just reaping the 'collateral damage' from her sexual urges, all which stopped since his departure.

Again, we're back to never talking and I really don't feel like we're into each other anymore. I firmly believe people grow apart, and their interests change over time. I think back to girls I thought and was sure I loved in high school and now realize they weren't anything. I associate the marriage with different tv shows or personal interests I had in my youth, whether 10 yrs old, 16 yrs old, or 25 yrs old.. things I LOVED then I have no interest at all in now. I feel like as we age our interests constantly change and mature, and perhaps the feelings and common interest she and I shared when we married continued to evolve and change as we got older, and now the things she finds interesting and sexy are different than the things I do. I do still love her very much and am very much attracted to her, but I find myself now starting to drift from these feelings as the years of not feeling it reciprocated back to me go on. 

I don't know if there's an answer, but I don't think this is something 'new' I think it's always been this way but now today our society is more accepting of divorces than they were 15-20 yrs ago. I remember growing up and hearing women that were divorced be talked about in hushed tones, like they had bubonic plague "she's a divorcee!".

I'm so unhappy in my marriage I find myself CONSTANTLY thinking about leaving it, trying to convince myself that everything would work out for the kids (the main reason I stay) with regard to seeing them and schedules for sports, etc. I don't know that I'll ever leave but the desire to do so is overwhelming and continual. I so many times feel like I'm right on the edge of telling her I want to divorce, but then never follow through and fear it'll lead to a big blow up and headache.. that we won't divorce but instead we'll stay together in even worse circumstances than we live in now. I'm trying to live by the 'suck it up and deal with it' motto, foregoing my happiness to make it work for the kids, but I just don't know if it's something I can continue to do indefinately.

I don't know if any of that helped or made sense, but hopefully you can take some pieces of that and see from a man's perspective just what we want and are willing to tolerate if it means making our wife content and interested in us.. even though looking back on that last issue it seems very disfunctional, I didn't see it like that at the time it was unfolding.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Racemom, I have lived what you describe for the past 15 years. All I can say now looking back, I wish I had the guts and strngth to leave him when the urge first hit me then. But I didn't and things are actually worse for me now.
I was threatened to believe that I wouldn't see my kids again because "no court in their right minds would give me custody of my children with the f**ed up family I have"..so I stayed. And after years of the same thing....temporary changes to shut me up and pasify the situation, only to return to "normaL' when the time was fitting. It has done nothing more for me than build a wall of resentment, anger, hurt, and the inability to trust him for his word. I love the man, but not in the way a wife should love a husband.

I stayed for my kids because they are my life and will always come first...but when my oldest son got to be about 10...he noticed my unhappiness and the times I cried....he finally asked me "why don't you just divorce him?". Although I thought I hid it pretty well, he still picked up on the fact that Mommy is hurt, and without even telling him why...he already knew. I wish now that I had taken his simple advice then. I have thought about divorce many many times through out the years, and I honestly feel like if I had the self esteem and strength to do it then, I would be much better off today.

I am not saying that this is the solution you should follow, I am just letting you know the possible outcome if you don't do something about it now. No matter what that something is.

Best of luck to you!!!!


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Thank you for your input. I've often wondered if I never left if I would regret it years later. My sister recently divorced her druggy husband. It took a lot of encouragement, help and support from me(usually I'm the one to speak my mind and be the bada__). She's so much better off now and so happy she left. I just wish sometimes I had the courage to do it too. She always thought I was the strong one, now, I don't feel as strong as she is. I really don't know what to do. I've heard several people say they were glad they did it and got to move on to a better life. I feel like I would be happier, but I'm just afaid, I think, to be on my own. I went from living at home with my parents to living with him, so I've never been on my own. I'm not afraid of being alone, I'm home with the kids, without him, ALL the time. I'm afraid I'm going to hurt his feelings, maybe. I'm always worried everyone else first. I can't see much for us in the future. I just look at him and no feelings come. There's just this empty spot where he used to be, now it is gone. I don't know if it can come back??? I just see a man, no emotions towards him, nothing. Some say having sex is the first step to fixing the problems in your marriage. How do you have sex with someone you have no feelings for? Isn't that the same as having sex with any ol' person? To me, sex is all about feelings and emotions and love, something special between two people. Not just an activity. Right now there are only feelings of hurt, sad emotions, and no love, in my opinion. Plus, obviously he is having trust issues with me. I don't want to share a special moment with a man who can't trust me. Having another man in my life is the furthest thing from my mind right now. I'm trying to figure out what's best for me and my kids. I have ran scenarios through my mind a million times, what it would be like to do this or that, some of it is good, some sad. I DO believe I got married too young and have told him so, he asked why? 18 is just too young to know what you want in life, especially when you've never been out in the world to experience anything. NOW I know that. But when you're young and in love, well, you know..... Now, here I am, unsure of what my future holds, looking for advice from anyone who will give it. I really do appeciate everyone's input, BTW. I'm too afraid to share this with friends or family for fear of being judged, so this is my main source of support. I know if I tell him that I want to leave, he will immediately accuse me of having an affair. What do I do? I think maybe this is what's holding me back.


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Mackey-
I'm SOOO sorry to hear your story. It sounds like your relationship sucks! I have always felt like #2 or #3, as his mother and sister come before me. Always, have, always will. I just want me and my kids to be his primary concern. He will even remind me that blood is thicker than water. That's always nice! We have never been good communicators, worse now than earlier in our marriage, of course. I would love to have someone that asked how my day went or come home and help cook, instead of walking in, sitting down and playing video games until it is time to eat or go to bed. But I know, he works ALL day and is tired. He does ALL the work while I stay home. Just so everyone knows, we farm. In the winter, there's not much to do except feed cattle, which takes about 2 hours. Spring, summer and fall do keep us both pretty busy, though. In the spring, I run fertilizer to plant spring crops, in summer I check cattle(about 260 head, some 25 miles away) on grass weekly and run a combine in wheat harvest, and in the fall I run fertilizer to plant wheat and run a combine to cut milo once again. I never have to ask for money, just attention, but that is pretty pricey, I guess. Whenever anything falls apart, I get blamed. I have learned to become less sociable towards his friends. He gets jealous easily and if I talk to them too much, he gets mad. When we go somewhere, he leaves me standing while he runs off and socializes with buddies. As far as the sex/porn thing, until recently, anyway, I have always told him that if he wants it, all he has to do is ask. I've never made up excuses(like a headache), rarely have I turned him down. I guess that's mayb why it bothers me about why he has to look for it elsewhere. He always has looked. The first time I caught him was right after we got home from our honeymoon. Nice welcome home gift, huh? He said he'd quit if I didn't like it, and here we are, 15 years later, still fighting about it. It's not a lot to ask for, is it? Especially when our sex life was good? When I was pregnant, 2 or 3 times a day wasn't out of the question. So I guess I just don't understand "WHY?" I'm sure he wouldn't like it if I was doing it. I would, but I just don't need to look at naked guys posing in stupid positions all day. I don't get anything out of it. I guess I just really longed for his attention, but never got enough of it. And now, I don't really care if I get it.


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Well, I gave in. I let him have sex yesterday. For me, it was awful. Full of emotion, sad feelings, I had tears in my eyes, but held them back so he couldn't see. Now, he thinks everything is good and back to normal. He asked about a "nooner" today, but I was busy outside, with nice weather, I wanted to be outside with my little girl. I don't know what to do. He's leaving in a week to go hunting for 4 days with buddies. Do I keep quiet? Wait til he gets back? I HATE that he thinks everything is all right and its not, well not for me anyway. I can't wait until he leaves next week, so I have time with the kids and time to think without having to hide my emotions so much. I did go out last nite with a girlfriend. We drank a little wine and had dinner. It was a great stress reliever. Then I came back home to reality. Today, I feel a little better, but I know my feelings and confusion will return. Some days I feel like a balloon that is ready to pop. What am I supposed to do?:scratchhead:


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Well, first allow me to say congratulations. i am still having a hard time swallowing my pride and giving in.

However, now that he is in a good mood, according to the advice given to me, is the time to address the other problems that are going on. Maybe now that he is happy and things everything is "back to normal" or "okay" you can casually bring up the other things bothering you. i wouldnt bring up the porn issue, instead see if having sex stops that or if it curtails it any. it seemed like his porn excellated because you werent giving any to him. well, now we will see if that in fact was the answer. and if the other issues get any better or if you can even bring them up now that he is in a good mood and possiblily more receptive to discussion. 

Let me know, and if it works for you, i might be a little more responsive about doing it myself. 

I am only so sorry you didnt enjoy it as much as you should have. Hopefully it will get better after discussing these other things. (Or you can always resort to getting drunk beforehand, just kidding)I feel your pain. I think in the back of my mind, i also think it is not going to be good for me, if he hasnt worry about my feelings, or if i am crying or sad, or mad, then he certainly is not going to worry if i have a good time and enjoy it. right? maybe that is what is holding me back. not sure. i am courious on how it works out for you.

Kudos to you girl!!! {giving you a hug}


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Well, I must say, sex is sure a cure-all for men! Not so much me, I still have my reservations about our marriage. I think he feels everything is OK now. He doesn't seem to be snooping around on my facebook or trying to see if I have a secret hotmail account set up again anyway. I feel, I don't know, I guess. Weird, I guess, thinking that how does he think SEX fixes all problems. They ARE still there, anyway last time I checked. We have been talking a little, fighting less. But it still bothers me that he has such a trust issue with me. I haven't found any porn lately, either. Now, for the BIG shocker. When he walked in the door Friday nite, he told me that I had better get cleaned up and be ready to go out Saturday nite by 6:30. I asked why? He told me he was taking me out for V-day, since he will be gone(hunting for 4 days with the guys, 7 hours away)! I didn't know what to say, so I agreed. Well, we went out last nite, dinner and some shopping, just little odds and ends that we needed. We had some good conversation, mostly about his upcoming trip and possible trips we could(not) take together. There was an excuse for every place I thought of. However, I was impressed, he actually took the initiative to make dinner plans and find a babysitter! I know he only did this b/c he thought I would be pissed at him for leaving on V-day. Every once in a blue moon, he will do something like this. Can anyone tell me when the next blue moon will be? I was very tired when I went to bed, he was already in bed, reading, by the time I got the kids to bed, so I kissed him and thanked him for taking me out. No sex, too tired. I still can't wait to see what it will be like when he is gone for 4 days. Will he change when he's gone? Maybe realize, I don't know............


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

I read somewhere that men dont feel really loved unless they have sex. Is that true? I really think it is. My husband too thinks that if I would just have sex with him, everything would be just fine. He keeps saying he doesn't want to pressure me, but he hints at sex constantly. He keeps saying "if you would just let me show you".....Im sorry, but the simple act of having sex shows me nothing more than him getting his jollies for the time being. I know this may sound harsh, but its how I feel. He had plenty of opportunity to "show me" he loved me before, but didn't do anything about it until a year ago. 

I think your husband is using taking you out to dinner for Vday is his attempt at making himself feel better about going hunting with the guys. I have seen this soooooooo many times in my husband. But, when there is nothing going on...there is absolutely nothing going on. Meaning, if he doesn't feel bad about something he is about to do or is planning on doing or has already done, he won't try to soften me up by doing something nice for me. It is his feebel attempt at trying to be fair. Although we would all like to think the best of the situation and tell ourselves....he is doing this because he really loves me and cares about me....we are wrong most of the time. He just wants to make himself feel better about it so when the topic comes up in conversation, he can say...but I took you out to dinner before I left...to him this seems fair and the score is even.

I know you are scared. I think that is the main reason we stay in a relationship that seems less than par to us. Looking back I can honestly say my biggest mistake in life was NOT having my own independance and know who I truely was before I got married. I got married at 21, which I dont think is too young, but looking back now..it was too young. I made a vow to myself when i got married that I would NEVER allow my kids to grow up in a broken family. My Mother left when I was 1, my father left when I was 9, raised by a step mother who only thought she was doing me a favor, and in the end thought I OWED her for raising me. This is NOT what I wanted for my kids, so no matter how bad my relationship with my husband got, I stayed true to the vow I made to myself and for my kids. They are much better young adults for it I believe. So now I find myself asking...would they have really been that bad off without living with their father? In all honestly, no they would not have turned out any different because he didn't raise them, he mearly provided us with the necessities of house and food and clothing. But I still stay true to that vow and will until the day my youngest turns 18.

I am scared to death of the prospect of living by myself in the future. It is what I want, but it still scares me because like you, I have never been on my own. But...we can learn from this instead of being afraid of it. It will take some adjustments and some getting used to, but it can be done. Think of all the things you do "on your own" right now. I am sure you can run a household the same wether he is there or not. I am scared of being alone. I have always hated being alone, but he has taught me through the years of his neglect that I am much more productive "on my own". 

What ever you tell him, remember that men are jealous creatures. Some people both men and women, have a hard time admitting that they may have had a negative effect of something. People have a tendancy to find someone or something to blame for a situation. So, no matter what you tell your husband, he will find something or someone to blame for it...which certainly will not be himself. If he blames it on you having an affair, well, to me that means he knows he didn't give you what you needed and you had to find it somewhere else..even tho he is wrong..but he won't easily(if ever) admit this to you. 

I highly doubt he will do any changing while he is gone with the guys for 4 days. In fact if you pay close attention, he is probably a different person than you knew before he left, every time he comes back from a weekend with the guys. It probably takes him a couple days to come back to "normal". I don't know why this is..I noticed it in my husband a lot. But when he came back from a weekend at the race track with the guys, he was MORE prone to be distant from his family and thow himself into his racing even more than before he left. It wasnt because he didn't miss me(maybe he really didnt, i dont know) but he had more cockamammy ideas when he returned than when he left. He at one point thought he was going to set the NASCAR world on fire with his talent, and for many years, that is what drove him.

It's ok to be scared, we all are. Just thinking of the potential mess up it will cause, the heartache to how many people, how will I provide for my kids, how will they trun out, will they be scarred for life from this,what about the retirement account, what about our debts, what happens to our friends....so many questions and so many other people to please OTHER THAN OURSELVES. Why is it so hard for women to try to make themselves happy and not feel guilty about it, and it seems so easy for men?? I don't get it and I sometimes wish that need in us to make others happy would just go away. It would make me finding MY happiness so much easier...yours too I am sure!


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Yep! That is what they say, sex is the cure all For Men. It has been my moms answer for everything. if we were fighting no matter what the reason, my mom would say have sex. i feel like you sometimes, in all that does is make it better FOR HIM. i still feel like sh*t. But in some cases, mom is right. some of the things i am worried about are only a big deal because i make them a big deal. 

Girl, who cares WHY he took you out to dinner. Whether it is because he felt bad about going or wanted to make himself feel better about leaving. I mean WHO CARES!! I definately dont agree with Sprite. Her poor husband has been "showing her" only she believes there is a diabolical reason for his every action. That man will NEVER satisfy her. are you going to now keep tab of everything he does and WHY? Of course there is ALWAYS a reason men do something, WTF, doesnt everyone have a reason? And if his reason is not the same as your reason or the reason you want it to be, thats okay. And if he does it because he feels guilty, then so be it. Count yourself lucky, because ALOT of men wont! or just plain dont feel guilty. feebel attempt or not, HE DID DO SOMETHING!! Which is all you were asking him to do. Correct me if i am wrong. 

At least it is a step in the right direction. Because 2 weeks ago, you said he wasnt doing anything (anniversary, holidays) and this time he not only took you to dinner, but he arranged it. This is a very good thing. and Give him Credit where credit is due. I wouldnt worry about the why or the how. Just say thank you, and have sex with him AGAIN!! if it makes him happy, GREAT!! he is turning that happiness a little back to you. if you act like sprite does, you will be just like her. never happy, blaming him for everything, nothing he does is good enough. and lonely. that is a load of BULLSH*T she dumped. Why isnt the need in us to make others happy, and the men to "merely provide us the means" to do so enough. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, and has worked for a million of years. But we take things to personal. he didnt get me a card, he only took me to dinner because he wanted something, his need and dependancy on us to take care of alot of things, his feebel attempts to be fair. In the large scheme of things, these things in turn with what WE do, all seem to come out in the wash. 

My thoughts are that if the man is attempting any kind of something then he is worth the effort. Mine dont do any of the above. And blunt as this may sound, i dont think sprite has a damn thing to complain about (however, she found everything wrong about her husband and plenty to complain about). I think YOU are taken baby steps, baby steps, like i am to save your marriage. You have made PROGRESS. dont give up NOW!!! When your husband comes back from his trip, treat him well, give him a hug and tell him you missed him and you are glad he is back home {because at least you know he came home, and not running off or leaving you} even if it is stretching the truth a bit. Dont bomb him as soon as he walks in the door with problems, the kids this, the car that. Just hug, and kiss him and say welcome home. I bet you will see an improvement. He is going to be waiting for you to Drop the Bump and sulk around. But dont do that, be happy, smile and ask him how it was, AND really listen to what he says. Then see how that goes. 

Let me know.


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

I do have to say that he DID admit he was taking me out to be nice and so that I wouldn't be mad at him. Heck, I would have been shocked to go out, even if he would be home on Vday! I don't expect to go out or receive gifts on special days anymore, so I was VERY shocked! I'm not sure why I'm scared to be on my own, I already feel I am. All I really receive from him is financial security. I never have to worry about money. I just have to take care of the house, clean, laundry, cook, take care of kids, mow, you know, all the "mom" stuff. He just works and gives me the money(that's what he tells everybody). How reassuring to know that I'm so needed around here. I tried showing him some trips we could go on online, he took once glance and said "oh boy" and walked out of the rooom. Sounds encouraging, doesn't it? How can he be so excited about going somewhere with buddies and care less about going someplace with me? He just tells me we can't spend that much money or we can't go cuz of the kids or we can't take the kids........I don't know how many excuses I have heard. We used to do everything together. Well, everything he likes to do, anyway. I've learned that if I want to spend time with him, I have to do what he likes, such as hunting or racing. He won't try anything new with me and claims we just don't like to do the same things. Well I've compromised, when will he? I tried talking to him like he was a good friend, it was awkward. We just don't and never have had "that" connection. I just want to be able to have that friendly conversation after a long day with the one that I love. I'm glad we went out to dinner, but now I just don't know if I feel anything for him. I'm waiting for things to go back to the way they were. I know it will happen soon, good times never last long. I long for my soul mate, the one I live with, laugh with and the one I cannot live without.


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Tonite I will be watching "the bachelor"-I have to get my fill of romance someway! Can watching this make me resent that I don't have that romance in my life? I know not EVERYONE gets romanced like THAT everyday, but is there anything wrong with wanting some type of romance in your life on a daily basis? A little kiss, butt pat, you know, that "butterfly" feeling?????? I haven't felt that in a while and I DO miss it alot!


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

Well, at least you are financial secure, that has to be a plus. And i am in the same boat as you are with the I do everything, except i do all the "mom" stuff and the "dad" stuff. yes, mine works too. I do most of my things with my children, they are my life and i work hard to give them a happy "normalish" childhood. But i hear you when you say you compromised and wanted to fell like the guy you married loves you. 
I am still waiting too, havent giving up all hope that someday he will say, sang mrsvain you do a lot, let me take care of that for you.
But Girl, you can never go back, both of you have changed from that day you married. you live, you grow, you compromise, you have babies, you change. The only thing you can hope is that those changes are together and you both love who you have become. 
I honestly think men are super slow at catching on. They fear change instead of embracing it. They feal threatened instead of accepting it, and tend to cling on to what they feel comfortalbe with. it is a shame that you guys cant find a new "thing" to do together. kudos for you for trying. dont give up, you might stumble on something he will find interesting that the both of you can do.

A wise old woman told me {and i probably have already said this before} that you fall in and out of love with your husband. You always love him but being in love with him is different. And it is what you do when you are out of love with him that makes and breaks a marriage. Maybe that means that in times like this, when you cant get along, if you can just hold on long enough, things will change positive again. when the children leave, you will go thru another change, when a job changes, you change with it. One can only hope that the men in our lives will catch up and change with us.

{giving you a hug}


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

MrsVain said:


> Girl, who cares WHY he took you out to dinner. Whether it is because he felt bad about going or wanted to make himself feel better about leaving. I mean WHO CARES!! I definately dont agree with Sprite. Her poor husband has been "showing her" only she believes there is a diabolical reason for his every action. That man will NEVER satisfy her. are you going to now keep tab of everything he does and WHY? Of course there is ALWAYS a reason men do something, WTF, doesnt everyone have a reason? And if his reason is not the same as your reason or the reason you want it to be, thats okay. And if he does it because he feels guilty, then so be it. Count yourself lucky, because ALOT of men wont! or just plain dont feel guilty. feebel attempt or not, HE DID DO SOMETHING!! Which is all you were asking him to do. Correct me if i am wrong.
> 
> At least it is a step in the right direction. Because 2 weeks ago, you said he wasnt doing anything (anniversary, holidays) and this time he not only took you to dinner, but he arranged it. This is a very good thing. and Give him Credit where credit is due. I wouldnt worry about the why or the how. Just say thank you, and have sex with him AGAIN!! if it makes him happy, GREAT!! he is turning that happiness a little back to you. if you act like sprite does, you will be just like her. never happy, blaming him for everything, nothing he does is good enough. and lonely. that is a load of BULLSH*T she dumped. Why isnt the need in us to make others happy, and the men to "merely provide us the means" to do so enough. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, and has worked for a million of years. But we take things to personal. he didnt get me a card, he only took me to dinner because he wanted something, his need and dependancy on us to take care of alot of things, his feebel attempts to be fair. In the large scheme of things, these things in turn with what WE do, all seem to come out in the wash.
> 
> ...


For 15 years of a 20 year marriage..he has shown me(and even admitted to me this past year) that there was a diabolical reason for everything he has done. This is what he has taught me and how I have come to the feelings I have now.

When he does something for me, I WANT it to be because he wants to, because he loves me and wants to spend time with ME, not as a means for him to make himself feel better or because he feels he HAS to. There is a big difference and I personally think it does matter.

You may feel what I say is a load of BS, but to each his own. I have grown to learn that the way he has been treating me is NOT acceptable. I do not blame him for everything..I am the one that allowed him to walk all over me...I let him do this to me for what ever reasons, and I total accept responsability for that. I never said nothing he does is good enough.....he does plenty, NOW, and he is the type of man any woman would want as a husband..BUT...when the trust has been broken over and over and over again....is it fair to just keep giving? In my opinion the answer is NO. He has broken my trust and my faith in him over the years, I simply can not roll over any longer and keep giving him what HE WANTS, thats what got me in this mess to begin with. I am far from unhappy or lonely at all. For the first time in a 20 year marriage I am NOT alone, and it does feel good.

After so many years of giving to his every whim and request, and getting nothing back, I have had enough. I did get a lot from him in our marriage. To list a few....I got 2 great kids, I have a nice house, I get to be a stay at home Mom. I also got neglected, got taken advantage of, I got to be mentally abused, I got to lose every friend I ever had, I got to stay within a certain radius of my nice house, I was able to be told how I am supposed to act, I got to be told what to say and what not to say, I got to be told what I was allowed to believe in, I was able to be told I was wrong, I did get to lose what littel self esteem I did have. Oh, and I learned that I was supposed to be a door mat! Sorry, but I have grown to expect more from the one who is supposed to love and cherish you.

Him planning reservations for dinner IS a good step, but take it for whatever you think it is worth.


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

OK. Now what am I supposed to think or do? We had sex the nite before last, it was better than the other nite, I didn't cry or have tears in my eyes, but glad when it was over. Last nite when I got home from taking my son to karate, I checked the computer and guess what???? He had time to come in and check out over 20 women while we were gone! Needless to say, there was no action in the bedroom last nite. Now this morning, he is acting like he wants some. I don't know how to keep blowing him off, I can't keep giving in to him, giving him what he wants, every time he wants it, especially when he's hurt my feelings yet again. There is no need in bringing it up, we'll just fight and I am enjoying not fighting all the time. I just want it to be peaceful around here when he leaves Friday morning. We did have a conversation yesterday, about looking at something he already had(trucks)plenty of, then he turned it around to me having a man and still looking for more men! I don't know how he always manages to turn everything around and try to put guilt on me! My son even told me the other nite that he wants a dad that comes home and plays with him. Now what do I tell my son, when his dad is too busy working to come home and spend time with his only son? A 6 year old doesn't understand that dad has to "work" ALL the time. The only time they see each other(for the most part) is in the morning, at breakfast. I pick him up from the school bus, feed them supper, play and read and get them ready for bed. I feel like its my responsibility to get dad to come home and play, which I am totally UNABLE to do. Kinda makes me feel like I'm letting my son down. Playing with mom just isn't the same for little boys as playing with dad. Don't get me wrong, we share great times together, but a little boy will always need his dad too. As I said before, seems like H is just a financially secure decision. HELP!!!!


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Racemom...I have learned that men have this mentality that being a good husband and father means providing for their family, and being our protectors. They don't understand that all we really want is their time and attention. It took my husband 15 years to figure that out, I don't know how long it will take yours or what you can say to him to help him see your point of view. All I can say is that when it does catch up to him and he is finally able to see what he has missed out on, he willl feel horrible for being like that. They also have this need to find someone or something else to blame for the things they do what we consider wrong. I know what it is like to have the conversation turned around on you, and it just gets to a point where it is easier and better for everyone but you to "shut up and put up". I did this and it was one of the major things I regret doing. You get tired of feeling guilty for having negative feelings and trying to talk to your H about them because he always makes you feel guilty. My husband was very intimidating and very persuasive and most the time made me believe what he was telling me. Blaming it all on his stress at work, his stress about his race car and his racing partner....how dare I not support him in his time of need. But it was ALWAYS his time of need when I had an opinion to discuss. I don't know how you can get through to him. I don't know what you can say that will make you open his eyes. But I do think you should start with the pictures he looks at on line. Have you sat him down and told him exactly how it makes you feel? I have learned in dealing with my H that you have to be totally upfront and blunt for them to get it. Make a deal with him if thats what it takes. Tell him that if he can go a week without looking at the pics on line, then you will agree to have sex with him that week(but only if you are willing to follow through)...but only after the week is over and there is no proof that he looked at anything. If he looks at even one pic or goes to one website.....don't give him anything. Tell him how it makes you feel, what it does to your self esteem...be blunt about it. Men dont understand.....honey, when you do that, it upsets me......they DO understand.....when you look at those pictures, it makes me feel like you don't love me and that you are not proud I am your wife. I am sorry I am not a perfect size 2 like all of hollywood, but a picture can not love you back no matter how much you may want it to.....

What you have to ask yourself is this...If he changes and gets rid of the pictures/porn and is willing to devote some time to you and your son...will you be accepting of those changes and welcome him with open arms?

I used to make excuses for my husband to my kids when they would ask questions about why he was never home or why he never had time for them. Finally I had enough of making excuses and started letting them talk for themselves. It took them a LONG time to be able to do this because they were always afraid of Dad and how he was going to react. By my kids asking hIM the questions instead of asking me, they were allowed to hear it from him what his excuse was. It made him accountable to them for his own actions. Kids have the amazing ability to see things so simply and to have such simple solutions, you will be amazed at how your son may be able to make your H open his eyes. Maybe not to how he is treatign you, but at least how he is treating your son..his son! The next time your son askes you a question....tell him you don't know and ask him if he can remember to ask Daddy that question when he gets home. If your son forgets, give him a simple reminder, like "hey Billy, didn't you want to ask Daddy something today? do you remember what it was?" If he forgets, let it slide, if your husband askes you what it was...just give him an idea not the direct question. Wait until your son asks again and help him through out the day to remember what he wanted to ask. If he is afraid of his Dad, he may not really forget, but tell you he did to avoid it(and sorry to say he probably learned this from watching you...my kids did). Just encourage him to speak his mind as long as your H won't see it as disrespectful and get upset with him(this is a whole different problem, but there is a solution that just takes time and confidence on your sons part).

I have also learned that most married couples go through a period when they don't feel like they are in love with their spouse, or they simply don't even like them. We can get through it, but it takes work on both sides to do so.

You should not feel like you are blowing your husband off. If you don't feel like sex, then you should not be expected to give it. We are taught that its a woman's "job" as a wife to "provide" for her husband...but I have learned that just the opposite is quite true. You have more power within the marriage than you think you do. I know this is not easy to feel, I was there too. But you have to build your own self esteem and remember that what you do with your body is YOUR choice, no one elses. If he doesn't deserve sex..don't give it. And if he asks why..be totally honest with him. 

What I started doing is finding ways to turn the conversation back around to him. I knew that every time I would mention something that was bothering me, he would blame it on this or that and make me feel guilty for feeling that way in the first place. It is almost like you have to play dirty for them to understand. When he says you have a man, but are still looking for more...tell him "NO, I am looking for the man I married that loved me and knew how to show it(if that is the case)" or "I am looking for a man that will love me the way I need to be loved and respected". I would play the whole converstaion out in my head ahead of time so I knew what my come backs were going to be..this took a LONG LONG Time to be able to do effectively since he still managed to make me feel like crap for having my own opinions that were not the same as his. You can turn it around, but you are going to have to find your strength.

Do you want to turn this around? do you want it to work out? do you want to spend the rest of your life with this man? You have to decide what YOU truely want for you and your son...then commit to either making it work or not. Do you know what it is that will truely make you happy? Figure that out, and if it includes your husband great, if not, thats ok too. 

If you do some research on alimony and child support, you will probably find that you are entitled to more than you think. Try not to worry yourself too much about the financial issues. Work on the emotional issues first.


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Well, he has returned home, safe & sound. I kissed him and welcomed him home, then the kids attacked him. Then his mother called. After they talked for 10 or 15 minutes he came up to me and says "gee, I'm gone for 4 days and all i get is a kiss?" I replied, I really haven't gotten a chance to say or do much else. Sorry. Then I thought, I can think of a time or 2 when I went somewhere(not for 4 days) and came home and never got noticed. He brought in everything from his trip and just dropped it on the floor. I was nice, asked him if he had fun, etc, etc. I cooked supper, watched the bachelor, ran bath water for the kids, he bathed them, surprisingly. He put our son to bed @ 9, I put our daughter to bed at 10. We went to bed and talked a little, had sex. Good sex, actually, although I have to honestly admit, for me, it wasn't with him. I know that's bad, but I knew that was the only way i would make it through. I was after all, pretty horny myself. Today, he made the comment that it must be nice to get flowers for V-day(I'm sure this was b/c he felt guilty) and to be loved. I said just because you send someone flowers doesn't mean you love them, it could mean you feel guilty. If you love someone, you could just show it or say it. Flowers don't neccessarily mean loving someone. He didn't like that comment. I kept my morning routine of cleaning up after breakfast, picking up odds and ends, fixing lunch, taking care of papers, you know, stay at home mom jobs. He sat @ the computer looking @ guns then asked where he should put his dirty clothes from the trip.(Well, duh!!) I said if you want them washed, then I would put them in the hamper. He then made some phone calls, leaving the phone and phone book laying right where he made the calls, never bothered to put them away. Shampoo is setting on divider in kitchen, coats and boots laying all over the house, empty milk jug on the counter. I made the comment that I could tell he was home. He asked how, I said there is stuff laying everywhere you have been. He never puts ANYTHING away when he is done with it. His mother ALWAYS picked up after him. That drives me crazy. If the milk is empty, put the jug in the trash! If you're done with the phone, put it away! I'm not a clean freak, or anything, but that is just a simple thing to do to eliminate clutter and messes. If you've read my other post, you know that he recently threw the EC in my face and I've decided(I think) that if he ever does it again, I'm outta here. I don't know how long I can hold out. He's driving me crazy. I just don't feel anything for him, at all. I don't HATE him, but I don't feel an emotional connection with him either. The kids and I had a GREAT weekend. We played, watched movies, shopped, each earned a new toy, ate pizza, donuts, etc. Just had fun doing whatever we wanted whenever we wanted. I have been painting and cleaning our rental house,(absolutely NO help from him) kinda preparing, I guess you could say. This could be where I wind up before too long. I just don't know what to do. I know marriage is supposed to be forever, but I don't want to live with regrets. Regrets that maybe I should have left, maybe I could have been happier. I don't want my kids to be miserable, as this is possible if I stay. I would hate to hear my kids say that staying just made everyone miserable. I guess if it was ALL bad I would have left already. I'm not sure whats keeping me here, possibly the guilt I feel about leaving him and destroying what we have been building for the last 15 years(farming-his dream, not mine).


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Well, we had another fight last nite. On his way home, he called and asked if the cattle were in when I fed them. I said yes they were. He said well there out now, did you close the gate when you put a bale in(this was Friday)? I said yes, I latched it tighter than what it was when I unhooked it. I'm thinking that if the gate wasn't hooked good enough, it wouldn't have taken the cattle 5 days to find an open gate! But of course, since something was wrong, IMMEDIATELY he blames me, even before checking to see where the problem was! I told him I would come down and help him get them back in, he said no don't worry about it, I just don't know when I'll be home now! An hour later, he came home. I asked if the gate was open, he said no, its shut tight(just like I said), they spooked and ran through the fence. Imagine that, not really my fault. So of course, I asked him why, when something goes wrong, does he blame me? He goes, "Oh God, here we go". Well, he started it, I just asked a simple question. His answer "I was just trying to figure out if you didn't get the gate shut." If this had been me, I would have checked for the problem before calling my spouse and blaming them. This is just another example of what its like around here. I always tell him I have to stay here so he can blame everything that goes wrong on me. We didn't speak much the rest of the night or this morning. Should I really have to put up with this? Couldn't I be happier somehow?


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

i dont know if you could be happier somehow, or put up with that. I actually didnt read anything too horrific. men are just like that. no, it was not your fault that the cattle got out, but i can see how that would be his first instinct, in this case anyhow. cattle out, someone left the gate open. it would be a conclusion i would make myself. and i would like him, have asked it the same way, well, are you sure you shut the gate. and would have had the same response from my people as you had. so i am no help on that cinerio.

however, i think you are in the same spot i am. i am so frustrated and even a little angry at my husband, and what he does, and doesnt do and how he acts and treats me, that it is easy to be quick to the defense and words. Sometimes, even the littlest things get to me. but when i hold my breathe and keep my mouth closed. i can look at it differently and sometimes, those little things are not that bad. believe me, i am not trying to casually dismiss your feelings. i just think you (and me too) need to step back and see what it is that is pissing us off about our husbands. Dirty clothes on the floor, empty milk gartons, phone off the hook. In my case, there will be a glass on the floor, and every single person will step over it (it was in the middle of the hallway) to get to the bathroom. I decided to leave it there to see how long and if anyone would pick it up (they all usually blame these things on the youngest but the 3 youngest werent home at the time). And guess what, that d*mn thing stayed there for 3 WHOLE WEEKS!! until i picked it up and i didnt pick it up quietly thats for sure. But an eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind. Someone HAS to give in, and more often then not, it is the woman.

So yes...it is up to the women to make it work. To Provide not just to the husband but to everyone in the family, and even outside the family in some cases. to make everything work. the family, the marriage, the house, the bills, etc.... I dont believe this crap about women are taught to give in and just roll over. Maybe in the 1940s, when a women place was in the home, and a mans was at work. But not so much now. It has been that way since the dawn of day. And i am sure that wives of the past have had these same issues we are having today. And yet, them seemed to find a way to make it work for them. Unhappy at home? they found some other way to fulfill their needs, their needs for feeling worthwhile, to feel needed, appreciated, helpful, and loved. they just did it differently then we do it now. Now it is porn, back in the day it was wh*rehouses then mags, then videos. Now it is he doesnt appreciate or only does things when he is guilty, well, that stuff has been happening back then too. Unfortuantely, it is just the way things work. Men think and see things differently then women. Dont get me wrong, there were some great guys and blessed marriages back in the day, same as now. but those are few and far between. 

My dad once told me when i was b*tching and complaining about my husband, well you have made your bed, now sleep in it. You can go to bed unhappy or get over it and make it work for you. Not at all what i wanted to hear at the time, i wanted verification about my complaints and whining. I wanted him to agree with me that H was being a sh*t and i was right and he was wrong. I was not happy to hear that out of my dad. But it goes to show how men think differently then women. my mom on the other can listen, understand and empthize with me. 

I am not saying that we should let our men walk all over us, but i do believe it is our job to "provide" and make it work. As you know, i dont have an easy answer on how to do this, or i wouldnt have ever gotten on this site in the first place. You and I both had been unlucky to choose men who have a very hard time showing appreciation and gratefullness for all that we do. But even you said in your own words, when he got home you were nice, and welcomed him home. you blew off some of the stuff at first and things went well. he responded in a small way, bathing the kids. put your son to bed and talked with you for awhile. I know it is hard to do, but it worked. baby steps, baby steps, baby steps.

I do agree with one thing, you need to find out what you want, if you want to turn this around? if you want it to work out? if you want to spend the rest of your life with this man? you need to realize your husband will probably not change in a big way. if his mother picked up after him silently then he will probably never pick up after himself. I dont believe in ultimatiums, they never work. And you are only setting yourself up for heartache. i know the porn really bothers you (and i dont blame you one bit for that, I feel the same way) but is it something you can live with? is there a compromise you can live with? say videos or magazines instead of online? maybe a locked box to keep them so the children dont find it? Like i said before, online porn is addicting, if your husband was doing this daily, it will be hard for him to stop cold turkey. is there a time limit you can handle to wheen him off it? can you look into professional help for it, like gambling? 

i know i am jumping around alot, but all i can say is stay strong. count your blessing and bite your tongue more. Easier said then done. and i have trouble practicing it myself. so please dont think i am preaching. As far as your son goes, i also have the same problem with my husband and children. I find things that we all can do as a family so the kids have that "quality time' with their dad. I always include him (even when i dont want to) and i never say anything bad about him in front of him (as hard as that is) not even on the phone when they are around. I also "force" the issue, by saying go ask your dad, or lets get dad to play baseball with us, or watch a movie. sometimes he is an azz about doing it and if he starts harping or acting up, i just whisper to him to cut it out or leave him alone for awhile till he stops. Probably not the answer for everyone, but it is worth the extra effort (and yes, extra work for me) to do it. My kids might be living in a make believe world for a while but time will show them the true colors when they are old enough to see it for themself and make their own decisions and impressions about their dad. And for now they are blissfully unawares and happy. That is all i want for them right now.

Good luck. i hope i didnt come off to harsh. I know it is not easy and having a man that is unreceiptive and unappreciative is hard to live with. I also would like for my husband just to take some wieght off my shoulders and show me how much or if he even loves me. (Guess i read too many romance books when i was younger, lol) a few things keep me going....my faith, my children and my parents. I also dont know how much more i can take from my husband, but everyday something "bad" happens and lo and behold, i can take it that much more. What doesnt kill us only makes us stronger. I know i have "put up with" and "lived with" more then some would have. My friends and coworkers all think i should have left my husband a long time ago, and after i felt like all i was doing was complaining about my marriage, and exhausted all my friends and coworkers, i turned to this site to complain, vent and get things off my chest. It works for me. Because as you can tell, i am not online as often, my friends and coworkers are now blissfully ignorant on my marital problems and i have felt vindicated enough to move on.I try to fill my days with positive projects, and fun filled activities for the children, until the next time i get overwhelmed. I blow off the little things, and try to keep it in focus. 

what really matters? the empty milk jug or glass on the floor, or the fact that he gave the children a bath and put them to bed? I know baby steps, baby steps. some days, it makes it better to really "see" the good things and not focus on the bad. I know it cant make life "peachy" in the long run, but all i want is one day at a time. and only time will tell if our marriage will last.

good luck to you and hugs for all you do.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

It sounds to me like you might need to change up your wording on things when you talk to him. When you ask "why do you always blame me"..that leaves it too general for him, making him think "oh god,, here we go again". If you plain out ask him..."why didn't you believe me when I said I shut the gate" it leaves it as one problem he needs to answer to, not a whole list of things that he has in the back of his mind. Have you ever read the book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus? You might want to, it helped me tons in how to communicate with my husband so he actually understood, without a doubt, what message I was relaying to him.

I have learned that marriages go in stages, and there are stages where we don't feel the love for our spouse. This is normal from what I have been reading. We go through stages of hatred also. This can be worked through, but it takes both of you to do it. You have to be totally upfront with him...tell him you are not his mother and you refuse to pick up after him. He is a big boy and there is no reason for him to leave stuff laying around the house. I had to remind my husband constantly that I was NOT his mother..it took him many many years to figure that out, but he finally gets it. Remember that he can not read your mind, and him being of the male persuasion, he simply doesn't understand how you feel until you come out and tell him directly. Tell him you have had enough, you are tired of giving in to him, you are tired of him not believeing you when you tell him you did something. Marriage is supposed to be give and take by both sides, not just one sided. It is supposed to be a union of two people who work together to make things work. My mother in law used to tell me all the time that the woman always gives more.(worse piece of advice I ever listened to) We do because that's how we are, but it doesn't mean he can't give too. 

Have you actually come right out and told him that you are not happy with your marriage? Chances are he has no idea that's how you feel.


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Maybe I DO need to work on my wording so that he understands. Yesterday, on 2 separate occasions, he was gooning me about something or other. In my defense, I started out "now wait just a minute" then he would reply "oh god, here we go", expecting to hear this long defensive story. He knew it was coming but instead I just kept my mouth shut. He didn't provoke anymore conversation on the subjects, just turned and left. Here's a little story about picking up after himself: I decided after he figured out where his dirty clothes went from his hunting trip that I would wash them on the w/e, as I always do laundry on the w/e. We went to a party Thursday evening for one of the guys that went on the hunting trip. A few other guys that went on the trip were there also. The wives sat around and shared stories, as did the men. Occasionally, there would be a group discussion between men & women. I shared the laundry story(above). My H said I told her that she doesn't have to fold my clothes, they can stay in the laundry basket. So, when I did laundry this w/e, his clothes stayed in the basket, until our daughter dumped them out. They have been laying on the floor, right where you walk, since Saturday. You can't walk into any other room without stepping on them. He told the kids they needed to pick up the stuff that was laying around. The only stuff laying around is his clothes. Yesterday I vaccuumed around them. Curious as to how long they'll lay there. He is still getting clothes out of the dresser, so I'm sure they'll stay there til needed. Talk about lazy! If this is what he wants, I figure, let him have it his way a little while. Let him see how sloppy it looks, how much I actually do around here! Until then, I just bite my tongue. I haven't actually told him that I'm unhappy right now, although I thought yesterday he sensed it. Yesterday was really tough for me, very sad, depressed, unmotivated, didn't want to see or talk to anyone. Today is a little better. However, we just don't have or never have had the type of relationship that I feel comfortable sitting down telling him everything, you know, that marrying your best friend type of relationship. I think part of that is because of all the times he has defended his mom or sister instead of me. I don't know if I will ever be able to get over that. It has caused SO many problems in our life together. It has been so bad that he has even told me that blood is thicker than water. Pretty crappy thing to tell your wife, who, IMP, should be H's first priority!


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

Yesterday was TOUGH. We had one fight after another, all stupid. Looking back, they were all due to lack of communication. He asked if I would haul a couple of bales for him w/the pickup. Jokingly, I asked "whats in it for me?" He never answered. I put lunch away, cleaned up the kitchen and loaded the dishwasher. He left with the pickup then came back a little while later, came into the house and told me that I didn't need to worry about hauling bales b/c I broke the pickup. I said what do you mean, didn't you just use it? He said yes, but since you drove it last, you must have something and broke a piece of pipe of the bale hauler. I said , Sorry, but I did NOT hit anything. He watched me the entire time I was loading/unloading a bale and I never hit a thing, yet since I drove it last, it was my fault! I asked, then how did you haul a bale with it if it was broke? No answer. He accused me of being grouchy for a couple of months. Gee, I wonder why? We also argued about his clothes on the floor. He goes, "so now what, you aren't going to fold my clothes anymore?" I asked if he would like me to, again, no answer. Our last arguement of the day was again about hauling bales. He was mad b/c I wouldn't help him. I told him I was cleaning up the kitchen and when I finished I was going to do it. He was also mad that I wanted something for doing it. I replied, No, I was just joking. All I wanted was for you to come home a little early so maybe we could rent a movie to watch together. We had a few other arguements, his solution: walk out. That really helped. I'm already depressed, fought a bunch, then he walks out on me. Happy day!  Now I wonder if I should have just left and been gone when he got home? Did I miss my window to leave? Then, to top it all off, and confuse my even more, he comes home early with a movie in hand! Now what am I supposed to think? Does he think that b/c he rented a movie everything is OK? He has been pretty nice today. I can't just forget about feeling depressed and fighting all day, then be hunky dory the next. Please help me out here. If you can give me any clues as to what he may be thinking, it would be appreciated. I guess I just really don't understand men and how they think.


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## MrsVain (Feb 1, 2009)

how are you doing lately?


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

MrsVain said:


> how are you doing lately?


It sucks to be me right now! I'm VERY stressed out!!! I know what I need to do, I just don't have the guts to do it, which makes me feel worse. Worse, because, I feel like I'm living a lie staying here, feeling so miserable. The thought of packing up 2 kids and leaving is overwhelming! But I know this is what I need to do to find happiness, as I will never find it here. I know that because we discussed why I have been so irritable and short fused lately. I told him how he could fix it: with little things. Little things add up to big things, I told him, he thinks I'm nuts. Every little thing I suggest, he either tells me to do it myself or that it's MY job. No reasoning with him. He sees things only one way. I'm tired of doing little things for him, now he just takes them for granted, doesn't appreciate them. I could give several examples, but I'm sure you understand. I am also tired of trying "one more time" just to go back to old times. Tired of being let down. I'm just not sure what the first step is. Do I talk to a lawyer and have him served papers or do I just leave, then deal with that? I see no point in staying here and being mad, sad, depressed. I know I will be happier away from him. I took my son to karate last nite and when I got home, I checked the computer. He was checking out porn, but it getting smart about it, as he deleted it from the history. However, I am one step ahead of him and was still able to tell he had done it. I just don't understand how asking him to not look at other naked women is such a HUGE compromise. Obviously it means more to him than I do, or I wouldn't have had to ask him SO many times to stop. I don't think that's asking alot, but for him it seems to be. I want to be the FIRST priority in his life, but I've finally acknowledged it will never happen, which tells me what I have to do. I don't think anything can fix this anymore. I've tried everything I can think of, with the exception of couples counseling, as he will not go because he "doesn't need anybody telling him how to live his life." Enough said?


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## racemom (Jan 26, 2009)

I need a last little bit of advice, maybe, for all the good it will do. My husband has viewed porn 3 times last week & deleted it off the computer history. He hasn't slept with me for 3 nights now and today he asked me what I wanted because he said he will not be home tonite. We argued and discussed many problems in our marriage, but still havenot come to any definited decisions as to whether or not it is really over. Is there anything else we can do? It seems to come down to the blame game, neither of us seems to be willing to change and stay changed. Help!


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