# Article- The Real "Problem" With Women's Libido? Men Are Bad at Sex.



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Are articles allowed here? Saw this liked and shared all over my facebook page today and thought of SIM Why Men Are Bad at Sex - Cosmopolitan
Some quotes:

_So here's a different answer to the pervasive "why aren't women more interested in sex?" question that the media and researchers seem unable to answer: Men are just plain BAD AT SEX.

The sad truth is men don't care enough about pleasing their partners. And each article about low female libido just excuses more men from trying to figure out how to please their partners_

Most of the LD woman things I have read here state that she _does _get an orgasm out of the deal so I'm not sure how accurate it is but interesting that so many women seem to like it and agree.


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

What? An article in a magazine that absolves the magazine's prime readership of any blame for their own troubles? That kind of pandering never happens!

Like just about any other article/conventional wisdom that pigeon-holes an entire demographic's problem into one cause and solution, this one misses the mark. Applicable to some situations but certainly not all. I'm sure some guys suck at sex and women are put off by that. I doubt that covers them all.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

_The sad truth is men don't care enough about pleasing their partners._

Oh, come on! What a crock of a generalization. What a trash magazine.

My wife doesn't want me to please her, and I wish more than anything she would give me that opportunity.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

The article title is way too bold, and of course like any magazine, it has to be catchy.

That said, the article DOES bring up an important, underemphasized reality in many marriages where a woman seems LD. When it comes to orgasms, men have it much easier than women (generally speaking). 

I recently talked to one of my good girlfriends about this. She had her first orgasm with her fifth sexual partner. I have yet to orgasm (having had four partners). I still have a high drive for sex, but I can see the point of the article. Many men haven't mastered their wives' bodies. Of course, it's arguable that it's a much harder task than the other way around. And that women bear a certain amount of responsibility for this.

Still, I think it's a valid point that this issue is not discussed enough. I can't imagine having sex with a man and him not climaxing. But it happens all the time with women.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

totallyunexpected said:


> The article title is way too bold, and of course like any magazine, it has to be catchy.
> 
> That said, the article DOES bring up an important, underemphasized reality in many marriages where a woman seems LD. When it comes to orgasms, men have it much easier than women (generally speaking).
> 
> ...


I agree with all this. It is frustrating to me as a woman that I can not climax as easily as a man. I am HD but if making me have an O was as simple as making him have an O, I'd be wanting it a lot more than I already do. Sometimes I feel it's just not worth the hassle.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

How do I put this....

Men aren't bad at sex. Women are bad at saying "hey, not there...here!"

Men aren't very good at starting sex hours before the get to the bedroom, but they can be taught....


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Speak for yourself............men can't be "taught"........they are humans.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I felt the article made some points congruent with my experience. I've had 5 sexual partners and none seemed the least concerned if I was getting off - including my husband. Things are much better at present but it's due to me demanding better treatment - not an organic desire on his part to do better.

I take issue with a few points. My experiences didn't cause me to become LD. Overall I have enjoyed sex and have had a slightly higher drive than my partners. Ironically I am now finding that the higher quality sex is lowering my drive somewhat because I am satisfied for longer. (Not that I am turning H down or anything.)

My real issue with the article is the point that men who suffer sexless marriages are at fault for them for not being better lovers. From what I have read here this is simply not true. How can a man improve sex at all with a wife who will only participate in missionary position with the lights off once per month? There are many men here who would do anything - who really want their wives to enjoy sex but are bound by the constraints the wife has in place. 

That part I find inflammatory and untrue.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

over20 said:


> Speak for yourself............men can't be "taught"........they are humans.


Sure they can. All humans and most all animals can be taught.

If your husband slobbered all over you when he kissed you, and it grossed you out, you would teach him to kiss you in a way that doesn't gross you out, right?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Totally true some men suck in bed. Some women do, too. I'd guess an equal percentage of each suck.

BUT...sometimes this is just a matter of circumstance. It can definitely change for anyone.

And when you get good at sex, you don't go backward, so that is a plus.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I would never have married a man who slobbered all over me......why do you continually look DOWN on men?....Men are not below us...we are not their teacher's, we are not superior to them....we are all equal...we all live and grow together!!


Yes, my DH can start the hot sex cues hour's before we actually do it...........


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Sure they can. All humans and most all animals can be taught.
> 
> If your husband slobbered all over you when he kissed you, and it grossed you out, you would teach him to kiss you in a way that doesn't gross you out, right?


I feel bad for you.......do you think your DH would be proud of you posting that he could be "taught?". Probably not...:scratchhead:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Actually, he jokes about it all the time.

I don't look down on men. I actually adore men! From a safe distance that is.

The slobber example was just an example. Are you suggesting your husband always knew exactly how and when to touch you, exactly what works best for you, you never had to tell him how you like it?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Totally true some men suck in bed. Some women do, too. I'd guess an equal percentage of each suck.


I agree but the difference is that a man with a bad partner is more likely to still be able to O than a woman with a bad partner. It makes it more of an issue.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

over20 said:


> Speak for yourself............men can't be "taught"........they are humans.





over20 said:


> I feel bad for you.......do you think your DH would be proud of you posting that he could be "taught?". Probably not...:scratchhead:


So, if I'm not lucky enough to find a guy who magically knows exactly how to turn me on, how to hit all the right buttons, how to help me orgasm, I'm not supposed to try to help him learn those things? I'm just suppose to forget ever having an orgasm with him, or discard him for a string of other men until I find one who magically knows just what does it for me? :scratchhead:

Isn't teaching your partner what pleases you, and being taught by your partner what pleases him/her, rather the point. Can you have a good relationship with someone who would be offended to have to learn about what makes you tick?

And of course humans can be taught. Part of what makes us human is our vast capacity to learn. That learning doesn't switch off once we're adults or once we're partnered. I would be gravely offended to find that my partner thought I _could not _be taught, could not learn, could not grow - as an individual or in our relationship.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I've found all but one of the men I've slept with to be impatient and unrealistic about a woman's orgasm. They were really nice guys outside the bedroom which was a huge contradiction. I felt so pressured to orgasm that I never could at all. With my ex husband I at least learned to give myself one during PIV by rubbing my clit during the act. He never gave me one without my help. I thought something was wrong w/me. 

The first time DH gave me one via oral without ANY effort on my part...I f**king cried. The relief,the love,and a whole bunch of other emotions just washed over me. To this day I get amazed all over again that he can do this for me. He's someone with practically no experience btw. The other men were ones with multiple notches on their bedposts.


However,with all that said,I would never blame men specifically for my LD period. I'd blame the relationship as a whole bc that's the only time I was LD...when the relationship wasn't giving me what I needed emotionally. I'd also blame low self esteem,female problems,anger issues,and poor communication skills for my LD times.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DUUUUHHH!! 

Lets see......

Take this thing and stick it in that thing?

OK. Back to my cave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> hey if we only knew then what we know now! Sex is a learning experience. We have been practicing for 42 years...it gets better and better.


OMG that is so true! It does get better and better. But I think a lot of that has to do with us, and not our husbands. As we purge the images and expectations about what it is supposed to be and how are supposed to feel, learn to let go and JUST FEEL, that when the magic enters!

Sex is fun. Sex feels great! Orgasms feel fabulous! The better we get at sex, the more we want it!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Some men are bad at sex - even some who want and try to please their partners. Some of those could be good with a little feedback, but some just will never get the hang of it. Some are limited by their partner's unwillingness to explore or try new things - and some are limited by their own unwillingness. As Scarlet said, many are too impatient.

However, most men are about as good as their partners.

During our swinging days, we had enough partners to have some idea of the nature and scope of the issue. Almost invariably, when one partner was good at sex, the other was as well, and when one was bad, the other was also. There were few who were mismatched, and most of those were in new relationships. Of course our sample was skewed, as there are few LD women who get into swinging. I really think that most LD women simply are that way naturally, and a good partner won't make any difference for most.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

To be fair, a woman who won't give any direction to their partner and spends more time building sexual resentment than trying to work through sexual issues like an adult is also bad at sex.

Of course for women, it can be a much more complicated situation. Being a woman having sex with a man, the evidence that you are succeeding is right there. The learning curve for how to please a man is a much shorter one because men can't lie about being aroused or that they are having an orgasm. 

Lest anyone thinks I'm judging - if you aren't familiar with my story these are lessons I'm learning for the first time in life and am 44 and have been married for 18 years. It takes two cooperative adults to improve a sex life - but only one uncooperative adult to kill a sex life. (That uncooperative partner could be male or female.)


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Both men and women can be selfish in bed, it just hits women a little harder because orgasming is harder for women. Among men, some men are fabulous in bed and want to please, some men don't give a sh!t, and some men desperately want to please but don't know how. A lot of men get techniques from porn, which is set up for mens pleasure (not womens) and frequently shows men taking/not giving while the woman screams at the top of her lungs. Yeah, real life doesn't work like that.

But there is a bigger hurdle that men face, and that is that women aren't taught to explore what they like sexually. You can't please a woman that doesn't know her own body, and with all the media messages women get that puts their bodies down, they never get comfortable enough to let go. When men are arguing for their God given right to porn this is something they don't get: for a woman to open up and let you please her she must be comfortable in her own skin, which she's less likely to be if you're jerking off to porn. I wonder how a lot of men would feel if their wives jerked off to a dildo twice their size.....

The bottom line is that women must be encouraged to explore and embrace their own sexuality, and men must be willing to learn what their lady likes (regardless of what porn tells you).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> The bottom line is that women must be encouraged to explore and embrace their own sexuality, and men must be willing to learn what their lady likes (regardless of what porn tells you).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is so important.I think more than a few women are LD bc they don't explore their own bodies,have no idea what they want,no clue what they like,and just assume it's bc they don't have a high drive.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> This is so important.I think more than a few women are LD bc they don't explore their own bodies,have no idea what they want,no clue what they like,and just assume it's bc they don't have a high drive.



Yes, and I could expand on that and say that society pressures women to suppress libido and find a good guy that can provide, instead of one she's attracted to. What would be the response of a typical woman's family if she came home and said a doctor wants to marry her but she's not attracted to him? She'd catch h$ll for even thinking about not marrying him. A man, on the other hand, can tell his family that he found a great woman of remarkable character but she just doesn't turn him on, and everyone will understand. The issue of womens sexuality and pleasing them well never resolve until we place the same importance on male and female sexuality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

over20 said:


> I feel bad for you.......do you think your DH would be proud of you posting that he could be "taught?". Probably not...:scratchhead:


I really do not understand your objection. I have learned things my whole life. I did not feel sub human because someone taught me something. 

There is nothing wrong with teaching.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> hey if we only knew then what we know now! Sex is a learning experience. We have been practicing for 42 years...it gets better and better.


Oh don't tell me that!
In five years I may have a cardiac arrest if it gets any better. 

Seriously though women are often too nice and or fake it.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Im great in the sack. 1 night with me and my wife is satisfied for several weeks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thound said:


> Im great in the sack. 1 night with me and my wife is satisfied for several weeks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:

Damn Thound, that is some ringing endorsement!


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

morrison723 said:


> My wife is always wet


Laundary must be something of a hassle.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

GTdad said:


> Laundary must be something of a hassle.


Panty liners....


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thound said:


> Im great in the sack. 1 night with me and my wife is satisfied for several weeks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You go with your bad self bro. :=}
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Female sexual response is complex. I know, stating the obvious. But how many men and women have bothered to read about it. Far less than readers of MMSL. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Female sexual response is complex. I know, stating the obvious. But how many men and women have bothered to read about it. Far less than readers of MMSL.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You mean treat your wife like crap and she'll want to jump you is bad advice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> You mean treat your wife like crap and she'll want to jump you is bad advice?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well a man with a bad side is fun sometimes. Better than the same ol same ol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Thound said:


> Im great in the sack. 1 night with me and my wife is satisfied for several weeks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha, that's a good line. You should do standup.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Actually, he jokes about it all the time.
> 
> I don't look down on men. I actually adore men! From a safe distance that is.
> 
> The slobber example was just an example. *Are you suggesting your husband always knew exactly how and when to touch you, exactly what works best for you, you never had to tell him how you like it*?


This is exactly what happened with my STBW and I, and is one of the things that she remarks on a lot. How I completely and intuitively knew how to satisfy her from the very first time kissed. The only direction she has ever given is if she'd rather have my fingers than mouth. I have asked her numerous times what I can do better or differently and she has convinced me that I am pretty damn good with her body. That I'm better at pleasuring her than she is.

That said, her experiences seem to corelate with parts of this article. She had always had a physical need for sex, orgasm about three times a week, and never desired it more. She describes her past partners as selfish, out for their own gratification, not really concerned with her needs, and she felt like sex four or five times a week was a burden that she went along with most of the time just to avoid an argument and also knowing she could take care of herself after it was done.

With me, she is not only willing, but will initiate sex multiple times a day sometimes, so compared to her past relationships, she is really high drive with me, and we've talked about why. It is in large part the emotional connection, but also the fact that purely physically, she thinks I'm a really good lay.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

On a side note, you know what irritates me? Every love movie I see has the 'first time' love scene where the two lovers have this awesome
wonderful sex for the first time in their new relationship, when the reality out there is probably much closer that first time sex ain't that great. We have to learn to please our lovers and yes, probably a lot of men are selfish during sex, especially the 'players'. (end of rant).

I don't really know if i'm good at sex. I've only had 4 partners, 3 of whom seemed to be pleased. My wife moans and groans with pleasure, and i'm pretty sure it's not faking (shes not a good faker).
I'm more than willing to learn and admit there's a lot I could still learn, like mr. mrs Adams


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

(sorry, continue rant) I wish Holywood movies would potray first time sex closer closer to reality and show more awkward but loving sex.
Would do a better service to mankind i think


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> (sorry, continue rant) I wish Holywood movies would potray first time sex closer closer to reality and show more awkward but loving sex.
> Would do a better service to mankind i think


While they're at it they could show what a real woman's reaction to some of the stuff they do in porn would be. Would probably ruin some fantasies.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

that awkward phase often results in unintentional bruises and the occasional nosebleed. it probably doesn't play well with test audiences.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I've found all but one of the men I've slept with to be impatient and unrealistic about a woman's orgasm. They were really nice guys outside the bedroom which was a huge contradiction. I felt so pressured to orgasm that I never could at all. With my ex husband I at least learned to give myself one during PIV by rubbing my clit during the act. He never gave me one without my help. I thought something was wrong w/me.
> 
> *The first time DH gave me one via oral without ANY effort on my part...I f**king cried. The relief,the love,and a whole bunch of other emotions just washed over me. To this day I get amazed all over again that he can do this for me. He's someone with practically no experience btw. The other men were ones with multiple notches on their bedposts*.
> 
> ...


This is how it was with my STBW. Like your DH, I don't really have a lot of experience either. The first time I went down on her, it was the first sexual contact we had had beyond kissing, She O'd in about five minutes, and did in fact cry as well. She says the O kind of hit her before she knew it because she wasn't doing anything but laying there, enjoying what I was doing figuring it wouldn't happen because she'd always had problems going with oral. She brings that night up every now and then with a little sparkle in her eye. Says she knew right then and there that she was never letting me go.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> that awkward phase often results in unintentional bruises and the occasional nosebleed. it probably doesn't play well with test audiences.


:rofl:

:iagree:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

(Oh man, I hate doing this, it sounds like such gawd awful pecker swinging...)

I have three past lovers who made statements to the fact that I was not a bad lover - quite the contrary, by their estimation. Now let's assume that they were being nice and trying to inflate my ego, but let's not assume that they were faking those orgasms.

I think I'm in the clear as the reason for my wife's general reduced sexuality.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Could it that we as men are to timid in bed? Maybe afraid of making a mistake or thinking we will be seen as too agressive or even perverted? Hell if I know.

What I mean would she see it as a bad thing if I pulled my junk out and slapped her in the face with it? 

Seriously one thing I would love to do is bend her over the bed and have my way with her. Someting like that.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Thound said:


> Could it that we as men are to timid in bed? Maybe afraid of making a mistake or thinking we will be seen as too agressive or even perverted? Hell if I know.
> 
> What I mean would she see it as a bad thing if I pulled my junk out and slapped her in the face with it?
> 
> Seriously one thing I would love to do is bend her over the bed and have my way with her. Someting like that.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thound said:


> Could it that we as men are to timid in bed? Maybe afraid of making a mistake or thinking we will be seen as too agressive or even perverted? Hell if I know.
> 
> What I mean would she see it as a bad thing if I pulled my junk out and slapped her in the face with it?
> 
> Seriously one thing I would love to do is bend her over the bed and have my way with her. Someting like that.


Can't speak for your wife, but if mr pink said that... I'd start bending over and waving my ass in the air!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Thound said:


> What I mean would she see it as a bad thing if I pulled my junk out and slapped her in the face with it?


what is with some guys wanting to do this? LOL I was sitting on our little ottoman putting socks on one morning,Dh walks up to me naked and whacks me lightly on the cheek with his penis. He laughed hysterically about this and proceeded to do it again bc I was just sitting there laughing at him. Now he tries to do it all the time like it's the funniest thing ever. Doesn't bother me and I find it cute bc I'm just weird but what's the thrill? :scratchhead:


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Men are bad at sex?


Heck, I'd best get some more practice in then.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> what is with some guys wanting to do this? LOL I was sitting on our little ottoman putting socks on one morning,Dh walks up to me naked and whacks me lightly on the cheek with his penis. He laughed hysterically about this and proceeded to do it again bc I was just sitting there laughing at him. Now he tries to do it all the time like it's the funniest thing ever. Doesn't bother me and I find it cute bc I'm just weird but what's the thrill? :scratchhead:


It's just the shock jock and inner six year old prankster in every man. I doubt too many of us think it's actually sexy, but hey, we've had this little toy our whole life, why not share?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I guess it's similar to when he's sitting down and I walk up and slap him in the face w/one of my boobs.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I guess it's similar to when he's sitting down and I walk up and slap him in the face w/one of my boobs.


:smnotworthy::smnotworthy::smnotworthy:

This is why this place is so damn dangerous. It's like watching HGTV - the whole point of that network is to sow dissatisfaction with your current home.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Or while MR A is walking on the treadmill I walk past and flash my boobs on my way to the bathroom...and when I come out he's walking on the treadmill with his pants pulled down..:rofl:
> 
> and there you go! lol


:rofl:

That's hysterical Mrs A! Having a visual.... Tennis match on speed. Side to side to side to side....


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Or while MR A is walking on the treadmill I walk past and flash my boobs on my way to the bathroom...and when I come out he's walking on the treadmill with his pants pulled down..:rofl:
> 
> and there you go! lol


I love it when my STBW just randomly flashes me. She rarely wears a bra so that makes it easier, and it's pretty awesome when she randomly puts my face under her shirt...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Thound said:


> What I mean would she see it as a bad thing if I pulled my junk out and slapped her in the face with it?
> 
> Seriously one thing I would love to do is bend her over the bed and have my way with her. Someting like that.


Seems to me knowing what *you* like and what turns *you* on is only about 1/2 the equation of being good in bed.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Can't speak for your wife, but if mr pink said that... I'd start bending over and waving my ass in the air!



I'd tell my husband "good luck with that", then I'd love every minute of it when he pushed me over and spanked me for my attitude.....but that's how we roll.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> And when you get good at sex, you don't go backward, so that is a plus.



I used to think that, but found out the hard way that people can and do go backwards. 

And it doesn't necessarily matter how good you are at expressing your needs or desires.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I think being good in bed is still only half the battle. If it's complicated, takes a lot of time and the proper mindset and environment to get an O with a partner, even if the man can do it all right it is still a process that might not seem as worth it when you have so many other things on your plate. 

If more women could O in the time and effort it takes a man to, they might do it more. A 5 minute easy thing vs. a 30 minute everything has to be right thing is a lot easier to fit into a busy life. 
A lot of times if I want just a quick and easy finish, I do it myself and get on with my day. If I didn't have that option I still don't see myself having sex every time I wanted to because it takes more effort.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

always...I'm guessing you are saying that your SO was good at one time, and now isn't?

If you mean he was good in the beginning of the relationship...you should know (because it is common) that this phase of a relationship can produce sexual results in some people that are just part of the newness, not necessarily their actual sexual level or ability.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> If you mean he was good in the beginning of the relationship...you should know (because it is common) that this phase of a relationship can produce sexual results in some people that are just part of the newness, not necessarily their actual sexual level or ability.


What I mean is shrinking repertoire, loss of interest in experimenting, relying on a limited and fixed set of standard "tricks" that aren't really all that effective.

He used to know that a woman has more than one erogenous zone, he used to be up for trying different things, different positions and places, we used to have a lot of fun. Now he still thinks he's great in bed, because I can O easily. What he doesn't understand is that *I* am the one who makes this happen. Mine and his are both my responsibility.

I miss the good old days.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Right...and by "used to know", I assume you are referring to the beginning of your relationship.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Right...and by "used to know", I assume you are referring to the beginning of your relationship.


Errr, it strikes me that you are trying to stuff this into a "we were oblivious to how bad we really were in the first 3 years of our relationship because we were too high on dopamine" box.

And it just doesn't fit there. We've been together 16 years now, the first rush would've worn off yonks ago.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

always_alone said:


> I used to think that, but found out the hard way that people can and do go backwards.
> 
> And it doesn't necessarily matter how good you are at expressing your needs or desires.


Unfortunately, this is very true.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I don't even know if I am good in bed or bad at sex. :scratchhead:

I'm assuming that I am ok as my wife has never complained. She has guided me from time to time especially early on.

I can usually get her first O in under 10 minutes although I find it more difficult in basic missionary.

Not sure if that is a reflection on my skill or her horniness.

If your wife seems to like it surely that is a good sign?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Errr, it strikes me that you are trying to stuff this into a "we were oblivious to how bad we really were in the first 3 years of our relationship because we were too high on dopamine" box.
> 
> And it just doesn't fit there. We've been together 16 years now, the first rush would've worn off yonks ago.


Well, at what point did it change?

And as for being "oblivious to how bad we really were"...erm, no. I'm just saying it is totally common (just read stories in this section) for couples to have more sex and more variety and quality in the beginning. And then later some people revert back to being their "real sexual level"...this is documented even. It is quite common.

If it all changed at year 15, then I would agree, that is totally odd to do a full slide back from "great" to "not very great".


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

just like using porn to teach you about sex romance novels also do not teach women what sex is or should be in a long term relationship.

both are fantasy.

just as the male teenager thinks is all about just putting it in and hammering away as fast as you can and your woman will think its great.

the teenage girl thinks you should be the most romantic person.know just what is romance for you. and also know just what you like sexually without any input.

crazy.

instead of exploring each other inside and outside the bedroom. with enthusiasm and open mindedness. 

sad really. it becomes a power struggle. and resentment builds.

I just don't feel comfortable being romantic and guy might say if you loved me you would understand.

I just don't like giving oral but I expect it and if you loved me you would understand.

although I see many fine women on here that are not like this men and women both. but i think the vast majority are.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Well, at what point did it change?


A couple of years ago, and so no, it isn't about the end of first rush or reversion to a previous sexual self. It may, however, still be the new real for him.

He can still pull out get stops if he wants to. He just doesn't. It's more fun, I guess, if I do everything? Or maybe he's utterly indifferent and just fulfilling his "duty"?

Either way, he doesn't see any problems, thinks I should be satisfied, and would like me to just stop talking about it.

And I wish he had just a wee bit of the enthusiasm and desire for variety he used to have.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Then to me, it just sounds like his enthusiasm and willingness changed, not his abilities or skills. My original statement was about ability. When I said "get good at sex", I meant abilities.

Yes, enthusiasm and willingness can go backwards.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

always_alone said:


> A couple of years ago, and so no, it isn't about the end of first rush or reversion to a previous sexual self. It may, however, still be the new real for him.
> 
> He can still pull out get stops if he wants to. He just doesn't. It's more fun, I guess, if I do everything? Or maybe he's utterly indifferent and just fulfilling his "duty"?
> 
> ...


Seriously? What a lazy ass! That's when you stop having sex cause Sheeshe, a good book and a vibrator will do much better!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Seriously? What a lazy ass! That's when you stop having sex cause Sheeshe, a good book and a vibrator will do much better!


Sadly that's true. More and more I think about just giving up and taking care of myself. I can often do a better job.

But I'm trying hard not to become that statistic.

Bad sex may not be *the* cause of LD, but it surely is one cause.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> what is with some guys wanting to do this? LOL I was sitting on our little ottoman putting socks on one morning,Dh walks up to me naked and whacks me lightly on the cheek with his penis. He laughed hysterically about this and proceeded to do it again bc I was just sitting there laughing at him. Now he tries to do it all the time like it's the funniest thing ever. Doesn't bother me and I find it cute bc I'm just weird but what's the thrill? :scratchhead:


If I did this to my wife, my junk would be about 4" longer or jerked out completely.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

The first guy I slept with after my STBXH was one of those who was utterly unconcerned about my orgasm. It was weird. It was like...to him, if it happened during sex that was cool, if not, no biggie. Like my pleasure was optional and didn't particularly matter one way or the other. No oral, manual stimulation only until I was just lubricated enough for entry. (I only slept with him a few times- the last time was particularly awful). And a guy like that (over 40 yo) isn't 'teachable' because the basic desire to please was not there. 

My STBXH certainly was not like that, though I often felt like he mainly wanted me to get off for his own ego, and he also wanted to please me the way HE wanted to please me, but not necessarily the way I wished to be pleased. (And I wasn't asking for anything off the wall) He had the potential/skill to be a fantastic lover though.

Of course I don't buy into the notion that 'men are bad in bed', that's obviously a stupid generalization, but I do wonder what it's like for the 20-something women who are sleeping with the guys who grew up on internet porn.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> How do I put this....
> 
> Men aren't bad at sex. Women are bad at saying "hey, not there...here!"
> 
> Men aren't very good at starting sex hours before the get to the bedroom, but they can be taught....


right!

It's your responsibility to train your fellas. 

There are enough differences among women to mean they won't know how you in particular like to be treated automatically.

Even one woman considered apart, changes with age. 

Men didn't learn to fix taps and diagnose car engines by guessing, or trial and error - someone showed them. Or didn't show them...

Pink lady - interesting that he even made it to 'a few times' before you did anything about it. What were you expecting after the third, fourth or fifth time? The last person who just didn't do it for me, I slept with once. Then I helped her look for someone else... she was a lovely person, just not for me. She discussed her new men with me, I was pleased to steer her away from her next choice - a user, and onto someone suitable, a big softy type.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Re: guys in their 20's being taught by porn...

I have heard a lot of problematic stuff in that age range. But honestly, a lot of the girls, when they are talking about it, sound fairly clueless about sex and their own bodies, too. So it seems that both sides are clueless, in some cases.

But overall, I believe that there will always be a slice of the population who have a high interest in sex and intimacy and being good lovers sort of comes naturally to them over time. They have a natural interest in their own bodies and others' bodies, and delivering and receiving pleasure "in the now" so to speak. So regardless of what is going on for some of the younguns' who were raised on porn, others of that same group will be the ones who are pretty good lovers now and will continue to get better over their lifetimes, porn or no porn.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Re: guys in their 20's being taught by porn...
> 
> I have heard a lot of problematic stuff in that age range. But honestly, a lot of the girls, when they are talking about it, sound fairly clueless about sex and their own bodies, too. So it seems that both sides are clueless, in some cases.
> 
> But overall, I believe that there will always be a slice of the population who have a high interest in sex and intimacy and being good lovers sort of comes naturally to them over time. They have a natural interest in their own bodies and others' bodies, and delivering and receiving pleasure "in the now" so to speak. So regardless of what is going on for some of the younguns' who were raised on porn, others of that same group will be the ones who are pretty good lovers now and will continue to get better over their lifetimes, porn or no porn.


Not just guys in their 20s. My older brothers had cave drawings that I used to look at when no one was home.

I also gleaned a wealth of information from my older brothers and their older friends.

Sadly most of their advice was as good as a Bernie Madoff investment.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

:lol:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> I am a little just curious what it was like for my mid 60's mom to have sex for the first time vs my experience. It took me a few times/people to realize that I'm not broken for not enjoying my cervix being drilled at a high rate. :rofl:
> 
> But after those times, I sure read some things. The communication of those things proved to be much harder, both me actually saying so and how well they were eventually recieved.
> 
> Nn shock that I married the first man who actually asked me to show him what I liked. Figured he was a rare bird I shouldn't let go of.


Had a very intimate chat with my 24 D last week. We talked about edging in a BJ and HJ. Even gave her some of my coconut oil. At first she was very uncomfortable. But I hugged her and said " when I was your age we didn't have the internet and I knew nothing and had no one to ask or talk to. As I learned I swore I would never have my daughters trying to figure this stuff out on their own. I want us to talk about this stuff because I needed it so badly when I was young but had no where to go!

My mother is 85 she never was able to pronounce vagina, called it virginia.


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## TheRock (Jul 12, 2013)

hmmmm... 

I think there are a lot of guys that would kill for the chance to take there wife to bed and do what ever they can to make sure they are satisfied. I would go down on my wife every day if given the chance because I know that is what she loves more than anything. 

I didn't read all the post but my direct question to any female that agrees with this article would be... if your husband is bad in bed then why did you marry him. it is not like he was great before you got married or before you had kids so why did you marry in the first place?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I agree there are some men that don't put in the time and effort to equally please their women, but the same goes for women doing the same to men, right?


I would say, lack of sex drive for the ladies:

- abused and never got therapy
- insecure about body and hasn't done anything about it
- bad ex bf or ex husband
- cheated on
- could just naturally have lower sex drive, hormones
- other things too


I know for myself, I would love to please my wifee orally every time we have sex and with her toy as well, but she is still insecure due to her size and won't let me.......yet, she tells me. But she is making seriously progress though, lights on now when getting changed and naked, letting me lick and kiss her neck, oiled breast job, any sexual position now, just not 69 or oral for her still, wearing sexier clothing and her first pair of hot panties. If she was fit from day one, none of these issues would be present and we would be rocking each other hard and I would be giving her oral with toys every time we had sex....I want to.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cuddlebug, you post has brought new meaning to you avatar.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Cuddlebug, you post has brought new meaning to you avatar.



hehehe, I like that.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

So just wondering over here. Why is it a man's responsibility to "satisfy" his partner, but the opposite is not true? 

I have spoken to a few guys about this and it sounds like most women think that because they have a vagina they don't really need to do anything during intercourse. EVERY guy I have spoken with about this issue has been frustrated with this aspect. 

If this is not true, why do we never see articles about it? I have had one lover who was very active (W) and the difference was night and day.

Anyone care to comment?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So just wondering over here. Why is it a man's responsibility to "satisfy" his partner, but the opposite is not true?
> 
> I have spoken to a few guys about this and it sounds like most women think that because they have a vagina they don't really need to do anything during intercourse. EVERY guy I have spoken with about this issue has been frustrated with this aspect.
> 
> ...


IDK maybe it's because most men can achieve climax no matter what, and women may or may not O.

Just a hypothesis of mine. Could be BS.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Thound said:


> IDK maybe it's because most men can achieve climax no matter what, and women may or may not O.
> 
> Just a hypothesis of mine. Could be BS.


So because men can climax easier, it is men's responsibility to "satisfy" a woman? WTF?!!? (Not directing this toward you, Thound.) 

I agree that is probably the case, but that is friggin' ridiculous. It is the responsibility of BOTH people to help satisfy the other person and to communicate their on personal desires and needs. Laying there and complaining about the guy won't get your needs met.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So just wondering over here. Why is it a man's responsibility to "satisfy" his partner, but the opposite is not true?
> 
> *I have spoken to a few guys about this and it sounds like most women think that because they have a vagina they don't really need to do anything during intercourse.* EVERY guy I have spoken with about this issue has been frustrated with this aspect.
> 
> ...


How does that work? You asked a *few *guys but their responses turn into this being about *most *women, doesn't add up.

I very much believe it is part of the sex life my partner and I share to make him as happy as he makes me. We satisfy each others needs and wants.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

always_alone said:


> I used to think that, but found out the hard way that people can and do go backwards.
> 
> And it doesn't necessarily matter how good you are at expressing your needs or desires.


That is absolutely true. And, the reason this phenomenon is so troubling is that it comes from a steep drop in effort. You don't unlearn what you knew, you just stop applying it.

There is a learning curve to everything. As time goes on, you get better / more efficient at doing it (including sex). You are able to achieve equal or better results with less effort; it's that whole "work smarter, not harder" thing. The only way output declines is if effort declines faster than ability increases.

It's like someone who mails it in at work. Yes, once in a while you have a genuine situation where a crappy boss or toxic environment just drains the life from you and you can't, or you have genuine outside issues that interfere. Most often, it's a situation where someone is lazy, or they realize that the reality of the job does not meet their perception and that person lacks the inner drive to provide and uphold their end of the agreement.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

CuddleBug said:


> I would say, lack of sex drive for the ladies:
> 
> - abused and never got therapy
> - insecure about body and hasn't done anything about it
> ...


I would add hangups and bad teaching to this list as a huge factor. Especially in Christian circles, I was surprised at how many people consider certain sex acts to be bad or unclean. I have a friend who says (regarding oral sex) "but that's bad - that's what gay people do" or a different friend who was told by her mother "you have to be a slvt to keep a man".

WTF? This goes deeper than lowering the perceived value of sex in general. Given that many/most women can't orgasm consistently from PIV (I believe this is a real phenomenon, and has nothing to do with the man's skill), you are setting people up for sexual dissatisfaction and relationship issues.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Holland said:


> How does that work? You asked a *few *guys but their responses turn into this being about *most *women, doesn't add up.
> 
> I very much believe it is part of the sex life my partner and I share to make him as happy as he makes me. We satisfy each others needs and wants.


As I said, it was anecdotal evidence, I wasn't doing action research as part of a scientific study or something. (The fact that EVERY man agreed with what I stated above is interesting, if nothing else.) 

I will say, I think it is fascinating (and sad) that you NEVER see an article about women being terrible lovers. And no, I don't think that is because all women are great lovers. The likely answer is a combination of men being able to climax easier than women, men being happy with whatever they get, and society's belief that men are somehow responsible for a woman's sexual pleasure. Ridiculous.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> As I said, it was anecdotal evidence, I wasn't doing action research as part of a scientific study or something. (The fact that EVERY man agreed with what I stated above is interesting, if nothing else.)
> 
> I will say, I think it is fascinating (and sad) that you NEVER see an article about women being terrible lovers. And no, I don't think that is because all women are great lovers. The likely answer is a combination of men being able to climax easier than women, men being happy with whatever they get, and society's belief that men are somehow responsible for a woman's sexual pleasure. Ridiculous.


Oh man there is so much bad stuff written about women it is ridiculous. 

Anyway what I meant was that asking a few men does not automatically mean that MOST women feel that way, that they don't have to do anything to satisfy the man. 

I digress, I have not read the article because it is of no interest to me to read stuff that is most likely designed to sell magazines and/or the author has some personal agenda. I fully believe in each person taking responsibility for their own sex lives and at the same time having a responsibility to giving their partner a great sexual experience.

The article heading is enough to turn me off reading it as I really dislike this sort of gender generalisation, it helps no one.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So just wondering over here. Why is it a man's responsibility to "satisfy" his partner, but the opposite is not true?
> 
> I have spoken to a few guys about this and it sounds like most women think that because they have a vagina they don't really need to do anything during intercourse. EVERY guy I have spoken with about this issue has been frustrated with this aspect.
> 
> ...


From DH's sexual experience,his past partners just sort of laid there.He had something like 2 instances where they gave him oral and he said having them give him a handjob was just "asking to get my **** pulled roughly." The one girl wouldn't even touch his penis. 

Maybe it goes back to what a lot of women are taught about sex.The man is supposed to lead and guide while the woman just follows. Seriously,that's what a LOT of girls are taught about intimacy if they're taught anything at all. 
It's not an excuse though.As grown women we should know what's right and wrong by now especially since we have a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips online. 

We're both pleasers so this problem never came up for us thankfully.


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## loving1 (Aug 5, 2013)

My H is an amaaaazzzing lover, he knows my body better than I do and gets me 99/100 times. And I do want it every day.

The only kind of internet porn he likes are the very softcore videos of a single girl posing and showing off her goods. He likes to focus on the lady in porn and in real life.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> So because men can climax easier, it is men's responsibility to "satisfy" a woman? WTF?!!? (Not directing this toward you, Thound.)
> 
> I agree that is probably the case, but that is friggin' ridiculous. It is the responsibility of BOTH people to help satisfy the other person and to communicate their on personal desires and needs. Laying there and complaining about the guy won't get your needs met.


It's too bad about your friends. Can you elaborate, can I assume that they don't have orgasms and the women do? That must be extremely frustrating for them. Are their relationships short or a string of ONS?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Women also learn some of what is expected from experience. Am I correct that sex for men is better if their partner is active? What do men consider good active sex partners Vs. bad ones? What do women consider good active partners Vs. Bad ones?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Women also learn a some of what is expected from experience. Am I correct that sex for men is better if their partner is active? What do men consider good active sex partners Vs. bad ones? What do women consider good active partners Vs. Bad ones?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A woman that wraps her arms or legs around me. A woman who gives vocal feed back. A woman who makes me feel desired. Even if she has to force herself to do it. No hrmphing (sighing the bad kind) no staring at the ceiling. No holding arms close to her chest. Grab my azz instead. Thats what I want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

DTO said:


> I would add hangups and bad teaching to this list as a huge factor. Especially in Christian circles, I was surprised at how many people consider certain sex acts to be bad or unclean. I have a friend who says (regarding oral sex) "but that's bad - that's what gay people do" or a different friend who was told by her mother "you have to be a slvt to keep a man".
> 
> WTF? This goes deeper than lowering the perceived value of sex in general. Given that many/most women can't orgasm consistently from PIV (I believe this is a real phenomenon, and has nothing to do with the man's skill), you are setting people up for sexual dissatisfaction and relationship issues.



Very true. Some faiths shun sex, unless for pro creation.

In my situation, I am a God fearing man, not worthy to be called a Christian, but I believe. I've had a high sex drive since my early teens and that had nothing to do with my faith. 

Maybe I'm not the norm?:scratchhead:


The ladies could use a vibrator on themselves while having PIV.....

Or they could have 69 or their bf or hubby just gives them oral to orgasm first.....


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

DTO said:


> There is a learning curve to everything. As time goes on, you get better / more efficient at doing it (including sex). You are able to achieve equal or better results with less effort; it's that whole "work smarter, not harder" thing. The only way output declines is if effort declines faster than ability increases.


I agree with what you're saying here, but I can't help but wonder if "effciency" and "productivity" are helpful to a good sex life.

My SO k ows me pretty well at this point, and he knows the minimum effort to lead to an orgasm --and to my mind it's exactly this that makes our sex life routine and unsatisfying.

When I complain, he always says "well you had an orgasm, didn't you", and when I tell him that's not the point, it's the quality and the build-up etc, he tells me "well it can't always be earth shattering."

And I'm like, why not? 

The same old script may be efficient and produce results, but it doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to experiment. Maybe it will take a bit more work or effort, maybe the output may not be as reliable. That's okay. I got time and energy.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Thound said:


> A woman that wraps her arms or legs around me. A woman who gives vocal feed back. A woman who makes me feel desired. Even if she has to force herself to do it. No hrmphing (sighing the bad kind) no staring at the ceiling. No holding arms close to her chest. Grab my azz instead. Thats what I want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Exactly active participation is key. Men and women can suck in bed. Also has a lot to do with chemistry I have found. Sometimes you just can't connect with another persons body in a way that you can with others. Or sexual style ( example I'm dominate in bed so being with someone also dominate wouldn't work for me) I guess because I have learned this little factoid in life I wonder what the hell happens to a couple who waits till marriage to have sex? What if they aren't sexually compatible ? Not referring to HD / LD


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

It is true. Some men are just poor lovers.

Just look at most of the women who post here. 
Low drives, boring and lazy. 

Really I had no idea. Before, I would have attributed most guys poor performance to a lack of knowledge because their SO's are not communicating. 

So now I think that a certain percentage of males, for what ever reason, just do not like sex enough to care about doing it well.

But I still think that there is a certain percentage who are only bad because they lack knowledge.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

ego plays a big part too. "I've never been unable to make a woman cum" 
Or rly? I find that hard to believe. Any man with a significant amount of partners who believes none of them have faked it is a complete fool and his ego is getting in the way of him being a phenomenal lover.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> ego plays a big part too. "I've never been unable to make a woman cum"
> Or rly? I find that hard to believe. Any man with a significant amount of partners who believes none of them have faked it is a complete fool and his ego is getting in the way of him being a phenomenal lover.



Yeah, women fake it all the time. But I think this does a disservice to a guy that wants to please, because he can't fix it if he doesn't know it's broke. And it unnecessarily strokes the ego of a jerk that doesn't care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah, women fake it all the time. But I think this does a disservice to a guy that wants to please, because he can't fix it if he doesn't know it's broke. And it unnecessarily strokes the ego of a jerk that doesn't care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As a former faker I agree. In the moment it can be really tough for a woman to look at her lover and be like "yeah that's not doing a damn thing for me" LOL 

ESPECIALLY if he has a large,fragile ego. but at some point you have to bite the bullet and gently guide him to another method.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Women use sex to get love. Men are the other way around.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> It's too bad about your friends. Can you elaborate, can I assume that they don't have orgasms and the women do? That must be extremely frustrating for them. Are their relationships short or a string of ONS?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They climax, the women just don't do much. But the women do expect the man to "satisfy" them. I get the feeling that the guys could just as easily climax with a hole in the ground. (Exaggerating obviously, but you get the idea.)


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> As I said, it was anecdotal evidence, I wasn't doing action research as part of a scientific study or something. (The fact that EVERY man agreed with what I stated above is interesting, if nothing else.)
> 
> I will say, I think it is fascinating (and sad) that you NEVER see an article about women being terrible lovers. And no, I don't think that is because all women are great lovers. The likely answer is a combination of men being able to climax easier than women, men being happy with whatever they get, and society's belief that men are somehow responsible for a woman's sexual pleasure. Ridiculous.


This has been my experience too, not just personal, but in talking with my guy friends as well. I think it has to do with the mindset that women are sexual gatekeepers and that what they provide is a gift to men at their mercy. Many women feel as if sex is a type of currency with men.


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## TopsyTurvy5 (Nov 16, 2013)

Thound said:


> A woman that wraps her arms or legs around me. A woman who gives vocal feed back. A woman who makes me feel desired. Even if she has to force herself to do it. No hrmphing (sighing the bad kind) no staring at the ceiling. No holding arms close to her chest. Grab my azz instead. Thats what I want.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly! Just because a woman has a vagina doesn't make them a good lover.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> Exactly! Just because a woman has a vagina doesn't make them a good lover.


:iagree:

And the penis is not the end all be all of her pleasure.

I can't imagine having sex with someone who just laid there. Yuck! How do you even get off?

I think, from a woman's POV, what makes a woman a good lover is not just being verbally and physically responsive, but enjoying touching him as much as she enjoys being touched. To find the places that make him squirm, to find the places that make him giggle, to do the thing that make him unable to put a coherent thought together. 

Essentially, the same things that make a man a good lover are the things that make a woman a good lover. To love to explore, to love to elicit, to love the discovery of explosively powerful feelings... That's what I love about sex!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> They climax, the women just don't do much. But the women do expect the man to "satisfy" them. I get the feeling that the guys could just as easily climax with a hole in the ground. (Exaggerating obviously, but you get the idea.)


I don't think anyone would say it's ok for a woman being bad in bed, I doubt that's what cosmo means and I have also seen where they advocate for the woman to be good and participating in bed as well (although some of their tips are just bad), but even amusing there are an equal amount of bad partners that are male and female, the male's ability to climax anyway _is _a big factor.

Bad sex with a climax could be less of a big deal to some people than bad sex without a climax would be. All those guys you were talking to, imagine how they would feel if it was SO bad they couldn't even get off. Probably get a lot more frustrated a lot quicker and would be more likely to just give up sex that they were getting nothing out of anyway. How many of them would still go through all the effort to have sex on a regular basis without ever having an O? For 5 years, 10 years, 20+ years? It makes a difference, at least to some women.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Even though a man may (almost) always have an orgasm, it can be unsatisfying. There is good sex, and there is mediocre and bad sex. Bad sex is when your partner does nothing to enhance the experience and doesn't try to heighten your pleasure. It's the build-up, the foreplay, and variety of positions and sensations that contributes to the experience - the quality of the end result depends on it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> sister friend....I LOVE how you think!


Embrace your dirty mind!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And the penis is not the end all be all of her pleasure.
> 
> ...


Focusing on HER pleasure is definitely the in thing right now, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that, but paired with a general attitude that sex is something done TO a woman rather than WITH a woman, that can be a bad combination. Many people look at it like giving and receiving a massage where one is obviously the giver and the other the receiver.

I think many women would be much more satisfied sexually if they were more active in participation. I am not talking about starfish duty sex, but more than wiggling a bit and moaning.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And the penis is not the end all be all of her pleasure.
> 
> ...


The gospel according to Anon. 
Amen and Hallelujah!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There are a couple of things here....one is, like attracts like. So for instance, most of my close females friends are huge wh*ores like me...so we get each other. And we all talk about sex like we enjoy it, crave it, and get creative about it.

When you get a bunch of horny women talking about sex and their lovers (current and previous), you will hear a variety of stories, good and bad...and for the most part, pretty accurate (if the women are fairly sexually self-aware themselves, they will be able to report their own shortcomings, for instance). 

Some women and men both, are just naturally good at sex...similar to being good at sports, a natural dancer, or being musically talented or something like that. These people tend to be driven toward finding good, compatible partners...and then over time, they end up having a lot of good partnered sex.

I don't hear a lot from these women about men who are bad lovers....I did hear that when I was much younger and my friends were younger, though. So these women got better at picking, and also, men and women both get better at sex over time.

So Topsy, it doesn't surprise me that in your case since like attracts like, your friends would be reporting the same things that you would report.

When I have encountered guys who speak about women who lay there like fish, I can only say they do tend to have one thing in common: They have bad pickers. At least in the sexual sense (which doesn't mean they picked bad women, just women who are bad at sex).

I haven't had any close female friends who lay there and think of England...but many acquaintances and wives of friends. There are a lot of different types here...

Then there is my husband's view of women. From his experience, women are extremely sexual, as much or more so than men. They are sexually aggressive and know what they want and how to get it. They may or may not be promiscuous but either way, they are DTF. That isn't strange or scandalous at all to him....there's no judgment about a woman's sexuality, history, number, kink or anything else. He is only vaguely aware that some women lay there and think of England. In his experience, all women he has been in a relationship with were happy, horny lovers who want sex frequently.

My personal experience hasn't been like his. In my experience, some men and women both are just ... "ok" at sex. Really it is the inability to connect that they aren't that great at. I did figure out a long time ago though, to move on quick if even the kissing wasn't good! Because that would foretell a lot about how the sex would be.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> Even though a man may (almost) always have an orgasm, it can be unsatisfying. There is good sex, and there is mediocre and bad sex. Bad sex is when your partner does nothing to enhance the experience and doesn't try to heighten your pleasure. It's the build-up, the foreplay, and variety of positions and sensations that contributes to the experience - the quality of the end result depends on it.


I'm a woman and can have unsatisfying orgasms as well so I understand the difference. I'm not saying bad sex wouldn't be a big problem for them, just that an orgasm (any kind)_could _make the difference in how much you are wanting to make the effort to do it. I don't know any men who would happily have sex consistently through the week for the rest of their lives and never have a climax (even worse when you get halfway there and then are left hanging) if they are physically capable of having one. I can imagine some women would feel the same too and just stop wanting it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> This has been my experience too, not just personal, but in talking with my guy friends as well. I think it has to do with the mindset that women are sexual gatekeepers and that what they provide is a gift to men at their mercy. Many women feel as if sex is a type of currency with men.


I agree, and I think your point is very important. Women have long been raised not to enjoy sex with the man they love, but to use it to get what she wants because after all, what other value does she have than looks and sex? This becomes more true the fewer opportunities when have. Men buy into this mindset; you see it here all the time when men are advised to get younger and hotter, because there's nothing else a good woman can bring to the table. Until the idea that looks and sex are the main thing women bring to the table, women will continue to leverage this to their benefit. Do I agree? Absolutely not, but I also think beauty pageants are sexist and outdated for exactly this reason, because they further this idea. When women are valued for other things sex will become something pleasurable to be shared with a special someone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree, and I think your point is very important. Women have long been raised not to enjoy sex with the man they love, but to use it to get what she wants because after all, what other value does she have than looks and sex? This becomes more true the fewer opportunities when have. Men buy into this mindset; you see it here all the time when men are advised to get younger and hotter, because there's nothing else a good woman can bring to the table. Until the idea that looks and sex are the main thing women bring to the table, women will continue to leverage this to their benefit. Do I agree? Absolutely not, but I also think beauty pageants are sexist and outdated for exactly this reason, because they further this idea. When women are valued for other things sex will become something pleasurable to be shared with a special someone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sing it sister! So damn true!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree, and I think your point is very important. Women have long been raised not to enjoy sex with the man they love, but to use it to get what she wants because after all, what other value does she have than looks and sex? This becomes more true the fewer opportunities when have. Men buy into this mindset; you see it here all the time when men are advised to get younger and hotter, because there's nothing else a good woman can bring to the table. Until the idea that looks and sex are the main thing women bring to the table, women will continue to leverage this to their benefit. Do I agree? Absolutely not, but I also think beauty pageants are sexist and outdated for exactly this reason, because they further this idea. When women are valued for other things sex will become something pleasurable to be shared with a special someone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sex as currency is something I don't and never have tolerated from a woman. My STBW tried this very early on, and I shut that sh1t down in a hurry. I don't trade for sex. This was quite the learning experience for her as it had worked on every other man she had been with. She will playfully try still, but I still don't play.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Sex as currency is something I don't and never have tolerated from a woman. My STBW tried this very early on, and I shut that sh1t down in a hurry. I don't trade for sex. This was quite the learning experience for her as it had worked on every other man she had been with. She will playfully try still, but I still don't play.


Certainly you should not accept this, but it's not an answer to the greater issue, and that is for an involved partner that enjoys it along with you. Of course there are some that don't care as long as they get theirs, but based on your thoughtful responses I'll assume you're not one of them.

Women who are taught to use sex are able to separate out any enjoyment because it's a tool, and they're not as likely to be involved partners if they're not getting something; their goal isn't sexual enjoyment, it's something else. So a woman that thinks like will have trouble being the involved partner you want if you've made clear there's no further reward. A lot of men don't pay attention anyway because all they know is they're getting sex; these often go sexless eventually.
For your purposes all you can do is not accept it and make clear to your wife that she if valued for who she is. I was trying to look at the greater issue in society.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Certainly you should not accept this, but it's not an answer to the greater issue, and that is for an involved partner that enjoys it along with you. Of course there are some that don't care as long as they get theirs, but based on your thoughtful responses* I'll assume you're not one of them*.
> 
> Women who are taught to use sex are able to separate out any enjoyment because it's a tool, and they're not as likely to be involved partners if they're not getting something; their goal isn't sexual enjoyment, it's something else. So a woman that thinks like will have trouble being the involved partner you want if you've made clear there's no further reward. A lot of men don't pay attention anyway because all they know is they're getting sex; these often go sexless eventually.
> For your purposes all you can do is not accept it and make clear to your wife that she if valued for who she is. I was trying to look at the greater issue in society.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am definitely not one of them 

She absolutely knows she is valued for who she is, and I think that eliminating sex as a currency has really opened her up sexually far more than she ever knew possible since it became sex for the sake of sex with nothing tied to it.

I think this is a huge issue in the greater society, but one that is perpetuated by both men and women.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Sex as currency is something I don't and never have tolerated from a woman. My STBW tried this very early on, and I shut that sh1t down in a hurry. I don't trade for sex. This was quite the learning experience for her as it had worked on every other man she had been with. She will playfully try still, but I still don't play.


I agree.

However I don't see any harm in getting an extra special 'reward' if I have done something that especially pleases my wife or me giving her a reward if she has pleased me. So long as it is done in fun.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sam...I don't think things will be the same in future generations, in that way.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> sam...I don't things will be the same in future generations, in that way.


Clarification please


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Clarification please



I took it to mean that as equality moves forward and women can get what they want on their own, the idea that sex is a tool to get stuff will go away. Then women will be free to open up and enjoy. Everybody wins! I'm sure FW will correct me if I'm wrong 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I took it to mean that as equality moves forward and women can get what they want on their own, the idea that sex is a tool to get stuff will go away. Then women will be free to open up and enjoy. Everybody wins! I'm sure FW will correct me if I'm wrong
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I was thinking along those lines too, but didn't want to assume the missing word was "sam...I don't *THINK* things will be the same in future generations, in that way."

I think the thing for me is that I am not and never have been hard up and desperate for sex. I've always pretty much been able to get it when and where I wanted, so as a currency for me, laws of supply and demand apply.

I think the biggest problem with it, especially in the context of a relationship, is the potential for it to essentially become looked at as a way of paying the bills within the relationship...essentially duty sex.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Clarification please


Just that there is more education, more porn, more open communication about sex in general, fewer misconceptions...every one will have more sexual experience than in previous generations. Also, sex work is being legitimized in some areas and legalized and that will happen more and more.

Young women simply will not be told the same things they used to be told on their wedding nights.

Everything has changed...it will take the world a bit to catch up, but it will.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And the penis is not the end all be all of her pleasure.
> 
> ...


Sadly the penis is the only thing allowed to touch her down there anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> Women use sex to get love. Men are the other way around.


Why do people keep repeating this obnoxious cliche like it's some immutable and universal truth?

I have sex because I like it and want to. I like it best with someone I love, but I don't "use" it to get love. And as if that could even work anyway. A few presents or favors? Sure. But love? Only from someone so foolish I wouldn't want them anyway.

As for the male side: if all they want is sex, there's many easy ways to get a steady supply that do not involve the hassles and challenges of love. So why "use" it? In the end, it's harder, and takes much more effort and commitment. Unless, of course, we're to believe that men just pretend love?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

yes sorry about the typo....fixed it!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> However I don't see any harm in getting an extra special 'reward' if I have done something that especially pleases my wife or me giving her a reward if she has pleased me. So long as it is done in fun.


:iagree:. I love these kinds of rewards!

Mind you, I also can't relate at all to the sex-as-currency thing. I've seen it happen, sure, but can't for the life of me understand why men are so gullible as to fall for it again and again so easily, or why a woman would want to waste her time with a man that was so easy to manipulate.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> They climax, the women just don't do much. But the women do expect the man to "satisfy" them. I get the feeling that the guys could just as easily climax with a hole in the ground. (Exaggerating obviously, but you get the idea.)


Oh. Do I have this right. The men cum no matter what the women do. So what are they complaining about?? Isn't that what they want, to get off?

I wish I could help with a suggestion that would have to do with flesh and blood women. There is a source of orgasms and entertainment. Internet porn. They don't have to bother spending money or time to sit through dinner and a chat to get an orgasm. It's free. They get endless entertaining women whose only desire is to get them off.  problem solved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Alright! Finally the truth comes out.

Men really are crappy in bed.

So I started sleeping with women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I find that hard to believe. Any man with a significant amount of partners who believes none of them have faked it is a complete fool and his ego is getting in the way of him being a phenomenal lover.


No woman has faked an orgasm with me, almost all of the women I've "known" have orgasmed with me and although they usually orgasm most of the time it certainly doesn't occur all of the time!

I learnt from the age of 17 how to tell when a woman is approaching orgasm is having an orgasm and has had an orgasm. Although I was not taught or directed I am very observant highly sexual and always notice small details. I don't consider myself to be a phenomenal lover. The women and sex I have enjoyed seems normal rather than exceptional. I am certain however many men and women are really bad at doing it, some of those can learn to get better some I doubt ever will for a variety of reasons. I am not drawn to women who fake orgasm.

With the women I have known they have like me largely been highly sexual. It is difficult to describe so I can't draw you a picture as such, except to say in my experience I am drawn to highly sexual people I pick up on people male and female who have "it" and have only ever pursued women who have "it", the women I have known have an insatiable craving for it when they play. Those women pick up on it as well, it is not a verbal thing or a particular look or glance. It's a sort of weird feeling or sense that you just know they are high sex and it has nothing to do with what they wear or how they look or what sort of physique they have. I am a short man with an average size dck, both my ex wife and luscious wife are taller than me in fact almost all of my lovers have been taller which is not difficult when one is short, so physique is not the issue.

Those who are highly sexual in the way that they can pick others who are and enjoy accordingly, aren't necessarily unfaithful at all or are a risky relationship proposition. I have never been unfaithful yet have had offers to be, this does not mean I go around looking for potential mates outside of any relationship, it just means I recognise and am recognised by those "it" people who are out there.

I am 43 this year and have had around 40 sexual partners from the age of 17. Since just before I was 25 my sexual partner has always been the same woman who I then married in 1999. My luscious almost 44 year old wife and I have enjoyed great sex often and regularly since 1996 except during a very brief slow down last year and the times when I was away due to service in the Army.

I also had a shotgun wedding (although there really was no compulsion from anyone) when I was 20. Which broke down following infidelity (it seems I have no tolerance for infidelity, looking and thinking is fine, being unfaithful isn't, trust is the issue on that one not sex) on her part when I was away doing a training course in the Army, which saw us divorced 18 months after being married. So most yet not all of my varied sexual partners were experienced from 21 through to 25. Except for the one night stand I always told dating partners up front about my past which I might add did not limit my sexual opportunities at all. I have "known" all of the women I have dated.



Faithful Wife said:


> There are a couple of things here....one is, like attracts like. So for instance, most of my close females friends are huge wh*ores like me...so we get each other. And we all talk about sex like we enjoy it, crave it, and get creative about it.
> 
> Some women and men both, are just naturally good at sex...similar to being good at sports, a natural dancer, or being musically talented or something like that. These people tend to be driven toward finding good, compatible partners...and then over time, they end up having a lot of good partnered sex.
> 
> ...


Spot on! Faithful Wife, like attracts like, I like strong, confident, dominant, sexy women. Which is funny since I am a top as well which means my luscious wife and I butt heads often, we both like to be the authority figure so to speak. Yet despite that we work together quite happily. On a personal level we both have little time for subservient people so don't gravitate towards such people in our relationships.

The knowing and the picking really does matter and the more experience you have, the more tuned your radar becomes. Although that radar is very subliminal, you don't consciously think about it you just know.

There's worse things than England to think of.....

Your husbands experience seems typical to me, perhaps we have known some of the same women.



lifeistooshort said:


> Women have long been raised not to enjoy sex with the man they love, but to use it to get what she wants because after all, what other value does she have than looks and sex?
> 
> Men buy into this mindset; you see it here all the time when men are advised to get younger and hotter, because there's nothing else a good woman can bring to the table.


Not all men buy into it, For me a lover has to be able to engage with me intellectually. Although I have always been drawn to physical beauty (which does not mean the blonde barbie type), I need someone who I can have engaging and intelligent conversations with. When I have carnal knowledge I have sex with my lovers mind not just their body and I expect and experience the same.

To be great in bed you need to be able to see, being obtuse will never get you there, no matter who you are or what sort of body you have.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Personal said: "*With the women I have known they have like me largely been highly sexual. It is difficult to describe so I can't draw you a picture as such, except to say in my experience I am drawn to highly sexual people I pick up on people male and female who have "it" and have only ever pursued women who have "it", the women I have known have an insatiable craving for it when they play. Those women pick up on it as well, it is not a verbal thing or a particular look or glance. It's a sort of weird feeling or sense that you just know they are high sex and it has nothing to do with what they wear or how they look or what sort of physique they have*."

I call this Sex-dar.

I wrote a blog post about it, which some may slam me for but...here it is:

http://mariefranklin.blogspot.com/2013/12/34-calibrating-your-sex-dar-part-1.html

The title is "calibrating your sex-dar" but apparently the word sex in it isn't ok, lol!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Personal I believe that you and your wife are very fortunate to have found each other and I hope your both stay in tune. 

Based on the posts on TAM from men and women in sex starved marriage, the initial picking is good but in time, something gets crossed. I'll bet your marital is happy and satisfying sexually because you and your wife happen to be compatable temperamentally, intellectually and sexually. 

It's the luck of the draw. Ill bet these men and women were as sensitive and tuned into their partner as you and your wife are. All you can count on is change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

samyeagar said:


> This has been my experience too, not just personal, but in talking with my guy friends as well. I think it has to do with the mindset that women are sexual gatekeepers and that what they provide is a gift to men at their mercy. Many women feel as if sex is a type of currency with men.


Sam in a way sex is treated like valuable currency by men and women in their relationships and choice of a mate. The barter system involves trade of commodities of equal value. If they have nothing of equal value to trade then they don't play. 

Men and women participate in the system and I think both are in control. They don't know it though.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

always_alone said:


> Why do people keep repeating this obnoxious cliche like it's some immutable and universal truth?


After a half century of being told that there's a 3,100,000 page manual for the care and feeding of the female libido replete with mixed partial differential equations I tend to think that women are in part victims of their own narrative.


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## Gingerbread (Nov 4, 2013)

This article fits my husband. He also has read that many women don't orgasm and I must be one of them. Says he wants to please me but actions don't fit words. Am I a bad lover too? Probably. I need more than five minutes.

My take is if I don't get anything out of it why do it? I want to have sex....just not bad sex. Whereas most men would think bad sex is better than no sex.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Gingerbread said:


> This article fits my husband. He also has read that many women don't orgasm and I must be one of them. Says he wants to please me but actions don't fit words. Am I a bad lover too? Probably. I need more than five minutes.
> 
> My take is if I don't get anything out of it why do it? I want to have sex....just not bad sex. Whereas most men would think bad sex is better than no sex.



Makes perfect sense to me. Questions is, what do you do about bad sex with your husband? I guess the answer depends on what you want out of life. How much do you want a good sex life? Do you want it enough to raise conflict about it?


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## Gingerbread (Nov 4, 2013)

I have done all I can. I have told him what I need. If he isn't willing or able there isn't more I can do. All the wishes in the world can't help us, he has to want it too.

Currently he is doing all the housework and anything else he can to make me happy. Doesn't want to talk about sex. Happy with hugs and pecks and throws in a foot massage every so often.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> After a half century of being told that there's a 3,100,000 page manual for the care and feeding of the female libido replete with mixed partial differential equations I tend to think that women are in part victims of their own narrative.


I can't tell if you begrudge women for having our own needs, independent of male desire for orgasm, or if you have just been talking to the wrong women.

Either way, I can't help but think that it's not the *women* who are the victims of their own narrative here.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Personal said:


> Hi Catherine,
> 
> I don't know anything about you Catherine that said I hope your relationship is great for both of you.


Personal. One of my fears is that my responsive sex drive will die and I will not know what to do to bring back to life. Reading this forum, it seems to happen. 

In truth, it has become an obsession with me. Read a lot on this forum in an attempt to find out how to prevent it happening. 

My husband and I are happily married with the normal bumps that are resolved. I think its because we have compatible deficiencies. I can understand and give him slack for his faults and he does the same. 

It was pure dumb luck believe me. We never even considered compatibility in the area of our respective faults.

I look at some of my married friends and family and I know I would not have been able to stay married to some of the men. Their deficiencies, although not terrible, would be too much for me.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Personal said:


> No woman has faked an orgasm with me, almost all of the women I've "known" have orgasmed with me and although they usually orgasm most of the time it certainly doesn't occur all of the time!


 ok


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Maybe the real problem is we try to analyze it to death. Sex is not that complicated.
> In the 42 years I have been sexually active...I will confess...I really never stopped to evaluate...is he good or is he bad...am I good or am I bad.


I think it's just one of those things where it's either a problem or it's not. Either obviously bad or good. If you'd have to think about if it was bad or not, it's good.  

It's only when it gets into the extremes that you have to really analyze. Vastly different sex drives, selfish lovers, miseducated lovers, being on different pages about how you each want it, er... equipment issues, etc.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Maybe the real problem is we try to analyze it to death. Sex is not that complicated.
> In the 42 years I have been sexually active...I will confess...I really never stopped to evaluate...is he good or is he bad...am I good or am I bad.


I guess Mrs. JA and I have always thought this way. There is nothing complicated about sex. Let's see I go to bed at night with a beautiful lady that I know I can get naked in a heart beat. I love her. Why would I not take advantage of that situation? We are home alone, I look over at her and get a horny feeling, I go over to her, kiss her, get a few feelies and that may lead to sex. To me marriage is not only good because you get to live with the person you love, but you have a built in sex partner. That people do not take advantage of this is beyond me. I admit, I have probably to a degree taken all this for granted because that is how I thought marriage should be. It is sad that everyone is not taking advantage of this great benefit of marriage.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

When you are good in bed, you tend to be alpha lover. Even if you aren't good in bed, an alpha doesn't stay in a sexless relationship so it wouldn't matter anyway. When you are bad in bed to the point a woman gives up sex, and you stick around long enough to know it has totally stopped.... you tend to be beta. I mean, by nature, a woman just can't be happy being with beta in bed. They don't want to have sex with cute adorable puppy that she can do whatever she wants with.

I agree with the article but not using their reasoning. If you are in a sexless relationship, get out. If you were good in bed, it would be enjoyable. If it's enjoyable, you wouldn't be sexless. Not much deep thought needed here. If I am wrong, there isn't much extra thought needed then. Your spouse is broken and if they are unwilling to try and fix themselves or just too selfish to care, leave. That's it.

It seems the idea offends people because they want to believe otherwise. If you're with a woman and okay with her not keeping you happy, then you are beta and chances are not that good in bed. 

<shrug>


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Maybe the real problem is we try to analyze it to death. Sex is not that complicated.
> In the 42 years I have been sexually active...I will confess...I really never stopped to evaluate...is he good or is he bad...am I good or am I bad.
> 
> We enjoy sex...we enjoy making each other happy sexually ....we like to experiment...we like to keep it exciting...so we work at it.
> ...


Happy for the both of you. Sadly not everyone are the same. What may work for one couple may not work for another.

I think my wife and I would be so much better if we could communicate with each other. I know there are many things I can't bring up to her without her feeling attacked. And she may have problems bringing things up to me do to my self-esteem issues. IDK.

What I'm trying to say if there is a way to open a communications channel, do it. I haven't found a way yet or don't have the balls to do it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thound said:


> What I'm trying to say if there is a way to open a communications channel, do it. I haven't found a way yet or don't have the balls to do it.


They're growing every day Thound. Why just now when I clicked on quote, I heard a bit of clanging...:smthumbup:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Gingerbread said:


> I have done all I can. I have told him what I need. If he isn't willing or able there isn't more I can do. All the wishes in the world can't help us, he has to want it too.
> 
> Currently he is doing all the housework and anything else he can to make me happy. Doesn't want to talk about sex. Happy with hugs and pecks and throws in a foot massage every so often.


Well doesn't this blow up the theory espoused in MMSLP? Here we have a husband doing beta things in order to avoid sex with his wife!

I'm so sorry Gingerbread. It just makes me so angry when a spouse knows they are hurting the other all because they are too afraid to leave their comfort zone and look in the mirror to see how they could offer the kind of love that's being asked for. Just shaking my head in disgust!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Coldie said:


> It seems the idea offends people because they want to believe otherwise. If you're with a woman and okay with her not keeping you happy, then you are beta and chances are not that good in bed.
> 
> <shrug>


Too bad simplistic, reductionist arguments almost always turn out to be, well, too simplistic. They sure sound good!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Coldie said:


> When you are good in bed, you tend to be alpha lover. Even if you aren't good in bed, an alpha doesn't stay in a sexless relationship so it wouldn't matter anyway. When you are bad in bed to the point a woman gives up sex, and you stick around long enough to know it has totally stopped.... you tend to be beta. I mean, by nature, a woman just can't be happy being with beta in bed. They don't want to have sex with cute adorable puppy that she can do whatever she wants with.
> 
> I agree with the article but not using their reasoning. If you are in a sexless relationship, get out. If you were good in bed, it would be enjoyable. If it's enjoyable, you wouldn't be sexless. Not much deep thought needed here.
> 
> ...


I disagree, some alphas will be good in bed, some bad. Same with betas. Simply being alpha doesn't make you a skilled and attentive lover. The beta hate and generalizations get ridiculous. 

Alpha men can be very selfish, putting themselves first. Being able to get you aroused is only half the battle, they also need to be selfless and attentive and put your needs first. 

Betas are often putting your needs first, they are happy making you happy, they will meet your other emotional needs and try anything to make their wives happy. 

You don't need that animal attraction to enjoy sex, a lot of women crave the emotional security of a man who will care for their needs above their own. Someone who will do the chores for you so you aren't so busy, someone who will rub your feet and draw you a bath so you aren't so stressed, someone who will work with you and fight to fix any problems rather than just walking away because they're too much of a "man" 

There'd be a lot of alpha guys in serial short relationships if they relied only on their alpha-ness to keep a woman happy and then left when she wasn't.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

always_alone said:


> Either way, I can't help but think that it's not the *women* who are the victims of their own narrative here.


They are in a sense.

I wouldn't pretend to be having a good time when I wasn't. I wouldn't suppress my true desires just to get a wedding ring, and then reveal them on day two of the honeymoon.
And I would coach my partner on what I want, rather than expect them to figure it out, becoming upset when their mind-reading skills aren't fully functional.

I guess this is why the first fix in most relationships is 'communication'. It's a code word: it doesn't mean 'learning to use English'. We can all do that. It means "saying what you mean, instead of leaving vague hints and asking someone to read a magazine article and guess which part is important" and other such things.

I like women very much, but I wish they wouldn't do so much pretending and white lying. Things are so much better without the silly mind games.

Actually, I'll add a criticism of men (generalising again, but so what.) When women start talking directly, it's up to them to engage and recognise it as a good thing, even if the initial conversations are ego-bruising.

One of the chaps on here wasn't listening to Scarlett Begonias. She tried to explain something which could have opened his eyes, but he clung to his ego. So SB then gave up.

Men don't help themselves by always prioritising the protection of their ego. In conclusion, I have shifted away from my opening sentence, and I'd say there are two major obstacles.

EDIT: not the alpha beta stuff again... it's not meant to be a dogma Coldie, just a guide to minor behavioural adjustment, that any man can implement, to different degrees. Washing yourself more thoroughly, and asserting yourself emotionally, is not brain-surgery for example.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

It's weird,I've been with what I think I can safely label as 2 true alphas and wasn't thrilled with their bedroom skills. It was obvious they had skills but it didn't do it for me. 

The full on "nice guy"(in quotes bc there's a difference between a "nice guy" and a nice guy,to me) was terrible too. 

I feel like Goldilocks. Those were too alpha,that one was too beta...DH is juuuuuust right LOL


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> We can all do that. It means "saying what you mean, instead of leaving vague hints and asking someone to read a magazine article and guess which part is important" and other such things.
> 
> I like women very much, but I wish they wouldn't do so much pretending and white lying. Things are so much better without the silly mind games.
> 
> ...


I feel like sometimes women,including myself, feel like if we have to tell a man what we need and he does it,it somehow isn't genuine. So we do the dance and give the hints in hopes he'll snag it and divine what we need on his own. That's when it feels most genuine and great. 

Somewhere along the line many of us were taught that a man should just know what we need by paying attention to our body language and subtle hints and if he doesn't know then he's not a good partner.Or if you tell him what you need and he meets the need,it doesn't mean as much bc you had to tell him what to do. I don't agree with this,I'm just trying to explain why it keeps happening to people possibly.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> There'd be a lot of alpha guys in serial short relationships if they relied only on their alpha-ness to keep a woman happy and then left when she wasn't.


Good thing there's a shortage of such guys out there, eh?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Good thing there's a shortage of such guys out there, eh?


That, and a lot of so-called "beta" men are in excellent relationships. The alpha-beta concepts and labels are overused and very simple-minded, and few people exhibit only one of the extremes.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes I'm honestly confused about why so many people seem to think there is only one extreme or the other. I don't know anyone at either of the argued extremes, only people in the middle somewhere.

I do know many women happily married or hooked up with very nice men of all types.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> *I feel like sometimes women,including myself, feel like if we have to tell a man what we need and he does it,it somehow isn't genuine.* So we do the dance and give the hints in hopes he'll snag it and divine what we need on his own. That's when it feels most genuine and great.
> 
> Somewhere along the line many of us were taught that a *man should just know what we need by paying attention to our body language and subtle hints and if he doesn't know then he's not a good partner.*Or if you tell him what you need and he meets the need,it doesn't mean as much bc you had to tell him what to do. I don't agree with this,I'm just trying to explain why it keeps happening to people possibly.


With the first bolded part, I feel like this with regard to compliments. If I have to ask for him to say tender things, he doesn't mean them when he says them.

On the second bolded part... If I keep shoving my tits in his face and he doesn't take the hint....well.... Pfffftttt!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes I'm honestly confused about why so many people seem to think there is only one extreme or the other. I don't know anyone at either of the argued extremes, only people in the middle somewhere.


Apparently you haven't been reading anything by Machiavelli et. al.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> With the first bolded part, I feel like this with regard to compliments. If I have to ask for him to say tender things, he doesn't mean them when he says them.


That's the conundrum, ain't it?

Except may he does mean them, he just thinks he sounds like a reduced sexual class beta ***** if he says them out loud. I think lots of things about my wife that I have difficulty verbalizing, because when I play the mental tape of me saying them, I sound like an idiot.



> On the second bolded part... If I keep shoving my tits in his face and he doesn't take the hint....well.... Pfffftttt!


Yeah, that's what he said.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

SB, it was this one:

Originally Posted by Personal (Second or third time of insisting on his perfection):

"No woman has faked an orgasm with me, almost all of the women I've "known" have orgasmed with me and although they usually orgasm most of the time it certainly doesn't occur all of the time!"

SB:

 ok


I think I interpreted your brief comment right. Doesn't it mean "Well, I tried, he wasn't listening!" Maybe not.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> That's the conundrum, ain't it?
> 
> Except may he does mean them, he just thinks he sounds like a reduced sexual class beta ***** if he says them out loud. I think lots of things about my wife that I have difficulty verbalizing, because when I play the mental tape of me saying them, I sound like an idiot.


Sounds like my husband We've been having some discussions via email lately and one thing he said was "I have all these incredible thoughts about you and when I say them in my head and picture saying it to you I sound awkward and stupid"


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> SB, it was this one:
> 
> Originally Posted by Personal (Second or third time of insisting on his perfection):
> 
> ...


LOL yes,I figure it's best to not argue with a man who is so certain about his skills.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I feel like sometimes women,including myself, feel like if we have to tell a man what we need and he does it,it somehow isn't genuine. So we do the dance and give the hints in hopes he'll snag it and divine what we need on his own. That's when it feels most genuine and great.
> 
> Somewhere along the line many of us were taught that a man should just know what we need by paying attention to our body language and subtle hints and if he doesn't know then he's not a good partner.Or if you tell him what you need and he meets the need,it doesn't mean as much bc you had to tell him what to do. I don't agree with this,I'm just trying to explain why it keeps happening to people possibly.


I understand the bit about genuine. But men aren't born knowing how to climb trees and make fire. They watch someone else do it.

Given that porn is wildly unedifying, and there is no-one to watch like there might have been in savage times, someone has to do the training and encouraging.

This is an artificial society in all ways, kids are even taught by strangers in segregated compounds (schools!), that's how far from nature we are. So women will have to compensate for this artificial situation to get what they need, and men will have to treat it like any other important skill to be learnt, and constantly improve upon, and adapt.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Cletus said:


> That's the conundrum, ain't it?
> 
> Except may he does mean them, he just thinks he sounds like a reduced sexual class beta ***** if he says them out loud. I think lots of things about my wife that I have difficulty verbalizing, because when I play the mental tape of me saying them, I sound like an idiot.


This feeling is no different than the woman who's husband has requested a strip tease from her but she feels awkward and embarrassed to do it so she doesn't. I think most guys would agree that a man who loves his wife would be thrilled with just the effort to please him, even if she looks uncoordinated and a bit silly. 

Most women who love their husbands would be similarly thrilled to pieces to hear him verbalize his sexy/sweet/loving thoughts about her, even if he wasn't all that eloquent or masterful in his delivery.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Rowan said:


> This feeling is no different than the woman who's husband has requested a strip tease from her but she feels awkward and embarrassed to do it so she doesn't. I think most guys would agree that a man who loves his wife would be thrilled with just the effort to please him, even if she looks uncoordinated and a bit silly.
> 
> Most women who love their husbands would be similarly thrilled to pieces to hear him verbalize his sexy/sweet/loving thoughts about her, even if he wasn't all that eloquent or masterful in his delivery.


The parallel is exact. That's why I don't ask for a striptease.  This is on the list of things I would be more than willing to work hard on if there was the possibility of some quid pro quo.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> I understand the bit about genuine. But men aren't born knowing how to climb trees and make fire. They watch someone else do it.
> 
> Given that porn is wildly unedifying, and there is no-one to watch like there might have been in savage times, someone has to do the training and encouraging.
> 
> This is an artificial society in all ways, kids are even taught by strangers in segregated compounds (schools!), that's how far from nature we are. So women will have to compensate for this artificial situation to get what they need.


That's the tough part.Going from teaching our girls that men should be the way they are in romance novels to teaching them men need guidance from women just as much as women need it from men.

It's important in marriage to realize you can still be a nice girl and communicate your needs clearly.They don't have to be separate things.

My husband puts a huge effort into making sure my needs are met but I still have to do wellness checks with him. "Sweetie,when I was dressed to the nines the other night and had to ask you if you enjoyed how I looked,I felt foolish and hurt."

and he does the same "Baby the other night when I was talking and you were looking at your phone I felt ignored and unimportant."

If we don't express these things,we'll never be happy. Same goes for the sex. 
It's awkward to stop right in the middle and redirect but damn it,it has to be done or we won't want to f**k anymore! LOL


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Yeah, that's what he said.


Wrong spelling? How do you spell the sound a middle finger makes when being pointed up in the air? :scratchhead:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Wrong spelling? How do you spell the sound a middle finger makes when being pointed up in the air? :scratchhead:


I dunno.

The sound you made is the sound a happy face makes when jammed between two prolific breasts, and there's no emoticon for that. Should be, though.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> How do you spell the sound a middle finger makes when being pointed up in the air? :scratchhead:


"You're number one!"

At least, that's what we say around here when it would be inappropriate to actually make the hand gesture.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

It takes two! Men aren't bad at sex.....it takes two. The perfect girlfriend who once she gets the ring simply stops trying. I've seen this played out too many times.
Sometimes I feel like marriage rewires peoples brains! They get into this "lets domesticate, you stay home and I'll work"......5 yrs two kids and an additional 40 pounds later somebody gets depressed and they're having less sex. 

That's how *hit happens.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Like attracts like. I have known exactly zero women who have done that.

So it isn't how *hit happens. It is how *hit happens for SOME people.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Like attracts like. I have known exactly zero women who have done that.
> 
> So it isn't how *hit happens. It is how *hit happens for SOME people.


Not always, I have to disagree about "like attracts like". It's common knowledge that this happens all the time where one party with an agenda (marriage, baby-kick / biological clock stuff/ or the guy simply on the wife hunt)...they get married and suddenly stop trying as far as taking care of themselves, gym, career etc. People make excuses all the time but excuses are just ..well...excuses.
I don't think "like" necessarily attracts "like". Yes for some people but it's more prevalent that most would care to admit.
The stench of truth...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> I like women very much, but I wish they wouldn't do so much pretending and white lying. Things are so much better without the silly mind games.
> 
> Actually, I'll add a criticism of men (generalising again, but so what.) When women start talking directly, it's up to them to engage and recognise it as a good thing, even if the initial conversations are ego-bruising.


:iagree:. Faking it is the worst thing one can do to one's sex life, and I truly don't understand why anyone would do this.

Except that women are trained to be pleasers, and to put other's needs before our own -- as well as to dance gingerly around the fragile male ego.

Plus a long history of misconception that first said that women don't have orgasms, or if they do they're unimportant --or a sign that the woman is a hopeless slvt and not worthy of respect or consideration anyway.

Come to think of it, there's lots of reasons why people might turn out to be poor lovers.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

aston said:


> Not always, I have to disagree about "like attracts like". It's common knowledge that this happens all the time where one party with an agenda (marriage, baby-kick / biological clock stuff/ or the guy simply on the wife hunt)...they get married and suddenly stop trying as far as taking care of themselves, gym, career etc. People make excuses all the time but excuses are just ..well...excuses.
> I don't think "like" necessarily attracts "like". Yes for some people but it's more prevalent that most would care to admit.
> The stench of truth...


Then how is it that I know zero women who fit your profile?

Yet I know literally dozens of women personally, and hundreds professionally and otherwise?

What you are calling "common knowledge" only applies to those who are living it, not everyone else.

In my world is it "common knowledge" that men are not always as sexual as women are.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Then how is it that I know zero women who fit your profile?
> 
> Yet I know literally dozens of women personally, and hundreds professionally and otherwise?
> 
> ...


Is it possible that some of the folks you know have not disclosed everything? Or perhaps they have not been as honest and objective about things as you think?


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I disagree, some alphas will be good in bed, some bad. Same with betas. Simply being alpha doesn't make you a skilled and attentive lover. The beta hate and generalizations get ridiculous.
> 
> Alpha men can be very selfish, putting themselves first. Being able to get you aroused is only half the battle, they also need to be selfless and attentive and put your needs first.
> 
> ...


I actually agree with what you said here for the most part, but it really comes down to a true alpha, isn't in a sexless relationship. 

They may be bad lovers, I agree, but they do not end up in a marriage that is sexless. Does that mean it's the answer? No, because they may end up being left because the the other person will not put up with it. Some women do want a man that they can use as a doormat. 

I don't feel this is a hate issue. Beta is something that can be changed in my opinion and if a man wants to stay "beta" and is bothered by the hate and generalizations, he should make steps to become less beta.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Coldie said:


> I actually agree with what you said here for the most part, but it really comes down to a true alpha, isn't in a sexless relationship.
> 
> They may be bad lovers, I agree, but they do not end up in a marriage that is sexless. Does that mean it's the answer? No, because they may end up being left because the the other person will not put up with it. Some women do want a man that they can use as a doormat.
> 
> I don't feel this is a hate issue. Beta is something that can be changed in my opinion and if a man wants to stay "beta" and is bothered by the hate and generalizations, he should make steps to become less beta.


AAAMEN! and the minute you refuse to be used as a doormat she suddenly positions into the very familiar victim role.
the stench of truth.....


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Is it possible that some of the folks you know have not disclosed everything? Or perhaps they have not been as honest and objective about things as you think?


It is my job as well as my natural nosiness to get into people's private lives like this.

Of course some may have misrepresented their sitch...but even if a percentage have, most have not. When you know someone over a number of years and all things shake out the way they say it does, it is pretty obvious.

So my conclusion is mostly that like attracts like. Because I do not doubt that there are stingy, mean, sexless wives who wield sex over their hubby's heads for their own weird pleasure...yet I've never met one. I'm pretty sure I'd never jive with a person who felt that way. And I definitely wouldn't work with one.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

aston said: "*I'm a guy...and being married, divorced and involved in relationships over the years have taught me a thing or two about this subject matter (and continue to learn)*."

And I'm a woman, and being married, divorced and involved in relationships over the years have taught me a thing or two about this subject matter (and continue to learn). Yet what I have experienced and learned doesn't match what you say.

So somehow what you learned is "the way" and what I learned isn't?

Or maybe like attracts like and confirmation bias are in play?

For instance, I'm going to find more data about less sexual men, and you are going to find data about less sexual women.

How is yours right and mine wrong?

We are both right, is what I'm saying.

But you want to think only you are?


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Too bad simplistic, reductionist arguments almost always turn out to be, well, too simplistic. They sure sound good!


I love simplistic. I admit, I am very much a reductionist though.

Problems aren't as complex as people make them. However, I will admit that alpha males (and females) can be bad lovers (selfish), but still wouldn't settle or put up with a sexless marriage. Not if they are truly alpha. My point was to make the argument on the first page invalid based on the fact that it may be "bad love making skills" but it's also because the partner puts up with being in a sexless marriage to begin with. I'd go as far as to say the person not giving the sex (selfish) is the alpha in the relationship. I do think alphas are the more selfish traits. And a woman or man not giving their spouse what they need to be happy is selfish.

I am sure that will be ignored because I notice people like to dismiss nature alpha/beta arguments, but, I think it's safe to say the one that choses to be "sexless" is the alpha in the relationship. It comes full circle, as the solution may be for the "bad lover" to maybe get some control back in his/her relationship. Cliche -- alpha up. Woman up or man up.

Bad lover or not, if the partner that wanted more sex/intimacy didn't put up with it, there wouldn't be a sexless marriage or a marriage.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

aston said:


> It's not pointed at anyone but it's only meant to blow a whistle so the male point of view can be expressed without the usual pouncing on any guy that's comfortable enough to ignore political correctness that favors a few.:rofl:


See,here again, what's with the attitude? We were having a really productive conversation in this particular thread where both sexes expressed themselves respectfully,calmly,and rationally. Now you're sh*tting all over it with your attitude.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> It is my job as well as my natural nosiness to get into people's private lives like this.
> 
> Of course some may have misrepresented their sitch...but even if a percentage have, most have not. When you know someone over a number of years and all things shake out the way they say it does, it is pretty obvious.
> 
> So my conclusion is mostly that like attracts like. Because I do not doubt that there are stingy, mean, sexless wives who wield sex over their hubby's heads for their own weird pleasure...yet I've never met one. I'm pretty sure I'd never jive with a person who felt that way. And I definitely wouldn't work with one.


I suppose. I don't have anyway to know one way or the other, but your conclusion seems to beg your analysis. You would never jive with or work with such a person, so all the people you jive with and work with must not be this way. 

I don't disagree that likes do tend to get together. But I find the idea that it is anywhere close to 100% to be suspect.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> aston said: "*I'm a guy...and being married, divorced and involved in relationships over the years have taught me a thing or two about this subject matter (and continue to learn)*."
> 
> And I'm a woman, and being married, divorced and involved in relationships over the years have taught me a thing or two about this subject matter (and continue to learn). Yet what I have experienced and learned doesn't match what you say.
> 
> ...


No one said his or her way is "the way". I think we're saying the same thing but form different points of view. I never said yours was wrong, hence my mentioning haven been in those positions that's taught me a thing or two that I'm sharing (while I continue to learn a thing or two).

Sharing is caring


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

I do not understand like attracts like. Can someone please take time to explain this better for me? I'd like to understand the concept.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

always_alone said:


> I can't tell if you begrudge women for having our own needs, independent of male desire for orgasm, or if you have just been talking to the wrong women.
> 
> Either way, I can't help but think that it's not the *women* who are the victims of their own narrative here.



I never said women are nuns. I said their motivations are different. But the wider issue is maybe after 2 generations of adult women arguing amongst themselves what even 'good sex' IS, what it looks like and which butterflies in Sumatra have to flap their wings on a Tuesday to roll that massive orgasm over their heads that perhaps talking about talking about talking about talking about it has become the goal and not the thing itself. If we applied this mindset to cars, the test for a driver's license would be 51,000 pages and 8 years of therapy and there wouldn't be any actual cars built and on the road for anyone to drive at all. But we'd know the theory, wouldn't we?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Coldie said:


> I actually agree with what you said here for the most part, but it really comes down to a true alpha, isn't in a sexless relationship.
> 
> How could you ever measure why a woman was in a sexless relationship with a man that would leave if his woman tried to leave him sexless. They may be bad lovers, I agree, but they do not end up with the problem a beta male will have.
> 
> I don't feel this is a hate issue. Beta is something that can be changed in my opinion and if a man wants to stay "beta" and is bothered by the hate and generalizations, he should make steps to become less beta. An alpha doesn't care.


 Being alpha doesn't make someone totally OK with leaving your kids, home, family life and 50% of your income. I'm sure many stay, be miserable, serial cheat. Unless you know every alpha male you don't know what issues they are facing at home. Especially if they are too prideful to talk about it or ask for help. 

As for_ if a man wants to stay "beta" and is bothered by the hate and generalizations, he should make steps to become less beta._ Or people could stop coming up with ridiculous ideas about what all men and woman want and should be. It's not just inaccurate, it can sometimes be damaging advice to try to make every man alpha because every woman will want that.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Coldie said:


> I do not understand like attracts like. Can someone please take time to explain this better for me? I'd like to understand the concept.


Like the rich 70yr old oil magnate attracting the 19 yr old blonder stripper? I'm struggling with finding the connection as well. 
Perhaps this analysis helps


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

aston said:


> Yes we were until you brought it up. I don't go around looking to harp on every word or point of reference people make on a discussion forum else distract from the conversation.
> 
> Let sleeping dogs lie.


So you use derogatory inflammatory words that distract from the conversation and somehow I'm wrong for calling you out about it? wow,dude,just wow.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I suppose. I don't have anyway to know one way or the other, but your conclusion seems to beg your analysis. You would never jive with or work with such a person, so all the people you jive with and work with must not be this way.
> 
> I don't disagree that likes do tend to get together. But I find the idea that it is anywhere close to 100% to be suspect.


That "what" is anywhere close to 100%?

I don't think any analysis will be close to 100% either...that is why I speak out against certain stereo-types that I know do no apply to large groups of people.

Here's the point I am trying to make...out there among the regular population, are lots and lots of highly sexual women, who actually like nice men, who do not want to use sex as a weapon against them, and who sometimes find themselves in relationships with men who don't want as much sex as they do (but sometimes they find themselves in happily matched relationships).

This large group of women is completely ignored when people say things like "women just want love not sex" and "wives only wanted the wedding, not the marriage, she shuts off sex the minute she eats the wedding cake".

Again, yes these women exist. But so does the opposite type of woman, in much greater numbers than one would think by reading here.

I also frequently read and hear that men are just horn dogs that will screw everything and don't care about love or intimacy.

I have found this to only be true of a small percentage of men.

I did a book review on this book which discusses that exact topic and the studies in this book showed the author that young men do not self-report to be the sex crazed beasts we say they are:

Challenging Casanova

When we sharply stereo type the genders, it hurts everyone.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Coldie said:


> I do not understand like attracts like. Can someone please take time to explain this better for me? I'd like to understand the concept.


In this discussion, I'm using it to mean that it is likely that your friends and acquaintances are like you, and will have similar life experiences in a general sense and over time.

A wh*re like me isn't likely to be friends with a woman who thinks someone with my history is wrong and bad and gross.

Combined in here is confirmation bias. So I will be more likely to find data about highly sexual women and a man who was jilted by a woman will be more likely to find data about men being jilted.

In the end, all of the variety exists. But when we think that only what we have observed exists, we are not seeing the whole picture.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> In this discussion, I'm using it to mean that it is likely that your friends and acquaintances are like you, and will have similar life experiences in a general sense and over time.
> 
> A wh*re like me isn't likely to be friends with a woman who thinks someone with my history is wrong and bad and gross.
> 
> ...


Thanks for putting it this way, I don't disagree with you. My only issue was with "like attracting like" since I have not seen that to be the case.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It does not always apply to romantic relationships, like attracting like. But in general we do pick partners who have the same values as we do (or so we think that is what we picked when we picked them).


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Being alpha doesn't make someone totally OK with leaving your kids, home, family life and 50% of your income. I'm sure many stay, be miserable, serial cheat. Unless you know every alpha male you don't know what issues they are facing at home. Especially if they are too prideful to talk about it or ask for help.
> 
> As for_ if a man wants to stay "beta" and is bothered by the hate and generalizations, he should make steps to become less beta._ Or people could stop coming up with ridiculous ideas about what all men and woman want and should be. It's not just inaccurate, it can sometimes be damaging advice to try to make every man alpha because every woman will want that.


This has nothing to do with leaving your kids, home, or family life (a sexless marriage isn't a family life -- you have no spouse IMO). This has everything to do with leaving the person that ignores your needs and leaves you in a sexless marriage. In other words, you get rid of the miserable aspects that make family life miserable for you.

An alpha not only leaves the parasite/selfish person, he/she also still stays with his kids, happily takes care of his/her kids, and even home if he/she can, and keeps the family life he/she wants, without the miserable sexless part.

This is not a true alpha issue, and I'd argue any person staying in a sexless marriage isn't an alpha. In fact, the one controlling sex is the alpha in that relationship.

My two cents. Way off topic though.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> It does not always apply to romantic relationships, like attracting like. But in general we do pick partners who have the same values as we do (or so we think that is what we picked when we picked them).


Correct in-that it does not always apply to romantic relationships but what happened to "opposites attract". Using myself as an example: I was married to a psychiatrist, I'm a "hedgefunder"......nothing similar there at all (then again we're divorced for a reason lol). Then dated another psychiatrist.....promptly broke it off. THEN dated a fellow "hedgefunder"....like and like....yea talking the market and split strike strategies over dinner, plane or after sex just was not fun...didn't last either.
Value system wise, I dated a fellow European. Despite both being from the Netherlands and working/living in the US that was where it ended. People grow and evolve and what you were 5 years ago is more than likely different from what/who you are today. Could that be the genesis of change?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The like attracts like is in an overall, general sense in our lives.

Romantic relationships are not (usually) chosen the same way that long term friendships are chosen and yes, opposites can attract. 

In general, your world will reflect back to you what you already believe about it.

So it is important to understand that this reflection is not the same as everyone else's and therefore, you don't have the full story if you think the world really is exactly as you see it.

Crap, if the world was the way I see it, you'd all be running for cover from these horny ass women everywhere.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> The like attracts like is in an overall, general sense in our lives.
> 
> Romantic relationships are not (usually) chosen the same way that long term friendships are chosen and yes, opposites can attract.
> 
> ...


So you're a hornball is what you're saying?:lol:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yessir. And my female friends are as well. Like attracts like. So I see them everywhere.

I don't notice these women who hate men and use sex as a weapon.

Don't know them, am not friends with them.

But I do acknowledge they exist even though I do not encounter them.

So please acknowledge all my hornball sisters who also exist! I seen 'em.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yessir. And my female friends are as well. Like attracts like. So I see them everywhere.
> 
> I don't notice these women who hate men and use sex as a weapon.
> 
> ...


OK: Here's the official acknowledgement going out to all the hornball sisters out there! We're not running from you, we wholeheartedly embrace you. :lol:

FYI: In the sex/intimacy part I do believe like attracts like. Online dating has exposed me to some interesting "situations" in that area so I'm a firm believer here. Then again that's just a piece of the whole picture.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Women are not more cunning and deceptive than men. How could that be? We are both human with the same genetic and social legacy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

I, obviously, had no experience with my wife (then girlfriend) at 16 years old. I didn't even know a girl could orgasm. We were doing some heavy petting, I put my finger in her and she went nuts! Huge orgasm!  I guess I am fortunate that she orgasms so easily. It has never been an issue with us for over 40 years.

I will say, however, that it has ALWAYS been my desire that she has a climax every time even if it means I hold off until she has hers. We will try whatever position that she needs that day (it changes). The other day we were using a position that usually works for her and after a bit she said, "I need to get on top of you." That did it! I just don't understand why every guy would not want to lead their partner into this world of extacy. 

Regarding "training" a man how to bring their partner to orgasm, she helped me become great at giving her oral. A clitoris is not a penis and the approach must be learned. In fact, I am ready for another lesson!


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Being alpha doesn't make someone totally OK with leaving your kids, home, family life and 50% of your income. I'm sure many stay, be miserable, serial cheat. Unless you know every alpha male you don't know what issues they are facing at home. Especially if they are too prideful to talk about it or ask for help.
> 
> As for_ if a man wants to stay "beta" and is bothered by the hate and generalizations, he should make steps to become less beta._ Or people could stop coming up with ridiculous ideas about what all men and woman want and should be. It's not just inaccurate, it can sometimes be damaging advice to try to make every man alpha because every woman will want that.


:iagree:

And what happens when you make loads of guys 'alpha'?

Are some men then alpha alpha?

And merely alpha men are looked down on?

I'd much rather be Balpha.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

I think the closest we can all get to agreement on a "biological fact" is that women generally have a harder time getting to orgasm than men and that men (and lesbians!) need to be ready and willing to do what it takes to get them there. Porn probably is contributing to laziness in men (I've seen the posts here) and if our society only had a much more open approach to sex and women's bodies (how they work) we'd be much better off.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I guess I've been lucky. I was always able to get Mrs Wysh off in minutes, often less than 5. Multiples take a lot longer though.

It sucks that she has gone through menopause now as she O's very rarely now.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> I guess I've been lucky. I was always able to get Mrs Wysh off in minutes, often less than 5. Multiples take a lot longer though.
> 
> It sucks that she has gone through menopause now as she O's very rarely now.


This means you're an ultra alpha bad boy motorcycle rider. :smthumbup:


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

ntamph said:


> This means you're an ultra alpha bad boy motorcycle rider. :smthumbup:


Grawwwwrrrr, me alpha. Ugga bugga boo.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> In this discussion, I'm using it to mean that it is likely that your friends and acquaintances are like you, and will have similar life experiences in a general sense and over time.
> 
> A wh*re like me isn't likely to be friends with a woman who thinks someone with my history is wrong and bad and gross.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

WyshIknew said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And what happens when you make loads of guys 'alpha'?
> 
> ...


You'll never make loads of guys (or girls btw) alpha, because who would marry all the women who are selfish, do not care about their husband's needs, leave them in sexless marriages, and use them as doormats? Or vice versa.

There is a ying to that yang. There will never be alpha levels. The only people mentioning levels are those that claim they are alpha BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT [insert reason why they remain in sexless marriage here]. 

BTW, being alpha doesn't fix marriages or sex problems. Alpha is established from the day you meet, and your sex life is also established throughout the dating process. Your spouse meets your needs because he/she understands its important and knows what makes you happy. In return you take care of your spouse as well. This is why it's so important to not date and pretend to be some perfect person. Both sexes do this and end up totally disappointing the other. Bait and switch (isn't just a term for how sex stops).

I understand how the term alpha is looked down on, seen as cave man/woman, or mocked. It's now survival of the wittiest. However, that wit doesn't keep your spouse interested in the bedroom, and her/him knowing she/he can use you as a doormat and keep you in a sexless marriage, she/he takes advantage. Discredit it or call it neanderthal, but an alpha won't be in a sexless marriage. Are there levels? No. But anyone can do things that an alpha would do to balance out a relationship.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> I guess I've been lucky. I was always able to get Mrs Wysh off in minutes, often less than 5. Multiples take a lot longer though.
> 
> It sucks that she has gone through menopause now as she O's very rarely now.


Some women are lucky like this!

I have a theory that maybe female bonobos are such horny monkeys because their clits are the size of a penis.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> *Some women are lucky like this!*
> 
> I have a theory that maybe female bonobos are such horny monkeys because their clits are the size of a penis.


Some women certainly are, but I think the right combination of partners makes this a whole lot easier.

Take my STBW and I. Before we were together, she described herself as one and done, would O maybe 50% of the time, never had PIV O, never had multiple O's, had to be in just the right position. The reason she shared all that with me was because she didn't want me getting down on myself, feeling like I was failing, that she was just one of those women who were wired that way. She had had 20+ years, and 30+ partners to figure all that out, so one would figure she knew herself pretty damn well. We have thrown everything she knew about herself out the window and it started with the very first time I went down on her. All those things she didn't think she was capable of, she does regularly, and has had more orgasms, in more different ways since she's been with me than the rest of her life combined.

The thing is, the first bj she gave me, she finished me in about ten minutes and was absolutely stunned. Though she had given many bj's in her life, she felt she was not very good at it because she hardly ever got the guy to finish. When she's been on top, she's able to finish me in minutes with the way she moves, again, something she'd never been able to do before, same with her hands.

I think it's just being paired with someone who is compatible, and not just physically, but emotionally as well.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm sorry sam, being a woman who doesn't O easily, I'm just saying...for some of us there are physical limitations that will not be any different regardless of how in love we are with a man.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

over20 said:


> Speak for yourself............men can't be "taught"........they are humans.





over20 said:


> Men are not below us...we are not their teacher's, we are not superior to them....we are all equal...we all live and grow together!!
> 
> 
> Yes, my DH can start the hot sex cues hour's before we actually do it...........





over20 said:


> I feel bad for you.......do you think your DH would be proud of you posting that he could be "taught?". Probably not...:scratchhead:


Actually, I'm gonna have to agree with Anon Pink here. I have had to teach my husband things about myself, my body, over the years... just as HE has had to teach ME how to please him. I didn't "just know" what touch would excite him... and he didn't "just know" what touch would excite me. That's what it means to teach...show what works, so they know. And he didn't know right away that I needed more time to be ready. He had to learn that... over time. I really don't understand why there's a problem with acknowledging we ALL need teaching every now and then. :scratchhead:


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm sorry sam, being a woman who doesn't O easily, I'm just saying...for some of us there are physical limitations that will not be any different regardless of how in love we are with a man.


I understand what you are saying, and don't doubt you in the least. I was just saying that being paired with the right person can make a huge difference, and simply writing it off as the woman's just not wired for it, or he sucks in bed is only exploring a part of a very complicated mix to having good sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

But I also think it is dangerous for a woman who has anatomy issues to think that a different partner will make a difference in this way.

For example, I think Miss Scarlett perhaps thought at one time that being with a different man might make her O easier.

I doubt that it would.

Now that she is wrangling her own responsibility for her own orgasm...she is finding it slowly getting easier. And her husband has made changes, but he's still the same man with the same equipment.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> They're growing every day Thound. Why just now when I clicked on quote, I heard a bit of clanging...:smthumbup:


:rofl: that was my bong.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> ok


Just because you have been able to fool men who have no idea what they are doing by faking orgasms doesn't mean that all men can be fooled or all women fake orgasm.

In my experience I don't and never have take any woman's word for it, nor writhing, verbalisation etc when it comes to assessing wether she has orgasmed.

I always check, some of the ways I do this is to do the following;

I always look for an opaque white thick discharge from the woman's vagina that often feels like it has bits in it following orgasm, this discharge is different from male ejaculate and is different from the discharge lubrication that occurs before orgasm. It is also worth noting that although the white discharge with the bits in it does sometimes dribble outside of the vagina, when it doesn't it can be found inside afterwards as well.

Another way I tell that orgasm has occurred is to rest a finger or thumb on the edge of the anus while pressing slightly or I instead insert the digit into the anus as orgasm approaches. In all instances as the woman's orgasm approaches there is a very rapid spasming of that area that occurs at a rate that cannot be deliberately done or faked regardless of how many pelvic floor exercises you have done. This then at time of climax turns into a slower and stronger throbbing kind of spasm that can also not be faked.

In my experience what is commonly referred to as squirting is not necessarily coincident or as a result of orgasm. The same applies when there is no squirt as such but a gush of liquid instead.

When doing PIV sex and the woman orgasms you can feel the approach on the penis by a certain level of thrusting from the woman where she thrusts at a particular angle. This develops into a subtle yet noticeable spasm inside and is coincident with a tilting back and forward pressure as well. A kind of rocking spasm starts to occur with a degree of clamping pressure. As this occurs you can double check with the digit on the other side and or looking out for the white discharge.

The above mentioned tells are not the only ways I determine if a woman has achieved an orgasm, however they are very effective techniques in their application. I have applied those identification methods since just before I turned 18 when I first noticed those things occurring when a woman orgasms 

If a man licks and fondles a woman's clitoris and does not do other things see above amongst others he will not be able to tell if a woman fakes an orgasm.

Faking orgasm helps no one, I cannot fathom why anyone would fake it. If it doesn't happen so be it, if it does terrific as far as I am concerned if a woman feels compelled to fake an orgasm in order not to hurt a mans ego. There are significant problems in that relationship with respect to communication and trust. That said, a couple can fix this problem even after an interminable amount of time if they love each other enough to address the problem honestly.

As far as I am concerned if you are faking orgasm you have little idea or experience as to what having great sex is. I do congratulate you for turning around your situation and genuinely wish you the all the best for the greatest of relationships with your love, that said I don't appreciate the inference that what I say isn't true. Just because your sexual experiences are limited please don't project your inexperience upon me.

Can everyone try to remember that Sex! is just sex it's meant to be fun it's what people do. The hang ups and the fears are really not necessary. Just give it a go often and pay attention to each other and try to be a bit more rational about it.

I wonder if more people had sex as often (not forgetting the usual caveat of always practice safe sex) as they could as soon as they could without shame, wether this would be such a problematic area of adult sexual relationships.

As far as I am concerned if a woman has had lots of sex and even enumerate partners she is not a sl*t, tart or whatever derogatory term you prefer, she is just a woman. Likewise if a man has had lots of sex and even enumerate partners he is not a stud, he is just a man.

As to the idea that a woman or a man is not a great potential life long mate if they have had lots of sexual experiences, I remind all of you that there are plenty participating here on TAM that have been virgins or have had limited sexual experiences. Yet despite that have had appalling relationships by any measure including sexually.

I have been a loyal monogomous and loving partner to an absolutely wonderful woman who I think of soley as my wife and not the mother of our 2 children, for just shy of 18 years. That is longer than many couples have enjoyed who have saved themselves for that special love.

Remember it's just sex!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Personal said:


> I always check, some of the ways I do this is to do the following;


Oooh, baby. Where can I get me in line for some of that? Do you carry your own speculum?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Oooh, baby. Where can I get me in line for some of that? Do you carry your own speculum?


Although it may sound clinical I can assure you it isn't done clinically, and is just part of the fun. It's not actually like some gynaecological exam and no you can't watch!


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

The title of this thread is part of the problem.

The reason why women have a low libido is. . . .men. /sigh


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Some women are lucky like this!
> 
> I have a theory that maybe female bonobos are such horny monkeys because their clits are the size of a penis.


Well don't I get some credit for being such an awesome alpha stud?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Personal said:


> Just because you have been able to fool men who have no idea what they are doing by faking orgasms doesn't mean that all men can be fooled or all women fake orgasm.
> 
> In my experience I don't and never have take any woman's word for it, nor writhing, verbalisation etc when it comes to assessing wether she has orgasmed.
> 
> ...




Remember it's just sex?

And yet you posted a three page essay about how you do a full post coital examination on your partner to ascertain whether she really did have a volcanic love eruption!

So which is it, just sex or important enough to you that you carry out a full forensic examination after each session?

I wouldn't say it is just sex to me exactly, but I am usually too knackered afterwards to carry out an examination.

The most we do is my wife will stop and let me feel the pulsing inside her. I think she does this as she is not a screamer but likes to let me know that it is 'job done'.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I dunno.
> 
> The sound you made is the sound a happy face makes when jammed between two prolific breasts, and there's no emoticon for that. Should be, though.


No, that sound is "flub a lub a lub a lub."


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Personal said:


> Just because you have been able to fool men who have no idea what they are doing by faking orgasms doesn't mean that all men can be fooled or all women fake orgasm.
> 
> In my experience I don't and never have take any woman's word for it, nor writhing, verbalisation etc when it comes to assessing wether she has orgasmed.
> 
> ...


Again,ok
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

PreRaphaelite said:


> The title of this thread is part of the problem.
> 
> The reason why women have a low libido is. . . .men. /sigh


I thinking using low libido was the wrong word. I don't think women who are just naturally low drive or low drive due to medical or past trauma, etc has anything to do with the man and good sex.
I think they are right about the fact that a bad sexual partner will make someone who otherwise would be MD or HD want sex less or even not at all.

I'd add to it too that since sex is often very mental for a woman, if a man is a bad partner in other areas it wouldn't matter if he's got a rabbit vibrator for a penis, some still won't enjoy sex. A lot of women don't want sex after a fight, for example, because they need an emotional connection and a feeling of safety and love and to be comfortable being completely vulnerable to O. If your life together is pretty much one big fight or disconnect-could be another reason for her not enjoying sex that has nothing to do with skills. 

Before you just go and just label her selfish you can look at the other possibilities and things you could do to make her more emotionally and physically enjoying sex. If that is not the issue, go to the next possibility.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Oh my, I did not know I was supposed to be collecting evidence to confirm my partner was being honest about her orgasm.

I think that it is interesting that a few guys have come to this thread resenting guys being described as bad in bed. 

It can't be denied. Several women have come here complaining about their guys being bad in bed. 

Although I have to wonder if that really would increase women's libido. After 15 years of practice my wife and I are very good at it. I try very hard to optimize it for her and she does not want to do it more. 

If anything the more satisfying it is the longer she can wait. 
So maybe if I want to do it twice as much maybe I should try to make it half as good?


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I thinking using low libido was the wrong word. I don't think women who are just naturally low drive or low drive due to medical or past trauma, etc has anything to do with the man and good sex.
> I think they are right about the fact that a bad sexual partner will make someone who otherwise would be MD or HD want sex less or even not at all.
> 
> I'd add to it too that since sex is often very mental for a woman, if a man is a bad partner in other areas it wouldn't matter if he's got a rabbit vibrator for a penis, some still won't enjoy sex. A lot of women don't want sex after a fight, for example, because they need an emotional connection and a feeling of safety and love and to be comfortable being completely vulnerable to O. If your life together is pretty much one big fight or disconnect-could be another reason for her not enjoying sex that has nothing to do with skills.
> ...


I'm usually the one whose sexual desire takes a nose dive after a fight, more than my wife. I hate bickering and fighting. It takes every ounce of desire right out of me.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Also- I've never had "white stuff with bits" and I've had all kinds of normal contact with my vagina post O. So either not all women are the same or it would take a serious mining expedition to find the stuff. The later would make me not call a guy again even if it was a good O, don't ruin the moment man. 

All I can picture in my head is "Wow that was great, come up here and cuddle"
"K, just a second... I know it's in here ... wait, let me get a better angle.... " all while digging around in my V. 

Most of the times after a good O (or your final O if multiple) I'm too sensitive to be touched anyway.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

PreRaphaelite said:


> I'm usually the one whose sexual desire takes a nose dive after a fight, more than my wife. I hate bickering and fighting. It takes every ounce of desire right out of me.


Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to generalize so much. I know it can be the same for men too. I know if I'm being a b*tch, H isn't going to want to have sex with me so women need to watch how they are treating their partner outside of bed if they want good sex too.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah, women fake it all the time. But I think this does a disservice to a guy that wants to please, because he can't fix it if he doesn't know it's broke. And it unnecessarily strokes the ego of a jerk that doesn't care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've had this discussion with someone who hasn't been here in quite awhile. She just could not fathom that there are women who do not fake orgasms, nor have they ever. I know many do, but not all of us do. I told my husband from the beginning that there may be times when I don't... and that it's ok. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy having sex. And my reasons for not faking are very much like you stated: he can't fix it if he doesn't know it's broken, and it really benefits no one. I wouldn't be satisfied, and he would keep doing things that don't work... all because I didn't speak up. So, I decided from the start that I wasn't going to fake it... and never have.

ETA: And that's how we teach EACH OTHER to be better lovers. By speaking up. Don't speak up, don't learn. Speak up, you learn.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> I never said women are nuns. I said their motivations are different. But the wider issue is maybe after 2 generations of adult women arguing amongst themselves what even 'good sex' IS, what it looks like and which butterflies in Sumatra have to flap their wings on a Tuesday to roll that massive orgasm over their heads that perhaps talking about talking about talking about talking about it has become the goal and not the thing itself. If we applied this mindset to cars, the test for a driver's license would be 51,000 pages and 8 years of therapy and there wouldn't be any actual cars built and on the road for anyone to drive at all. But we'd know the theory, wouldn't we?


Fact is there would be lamborghinis on the autobahn. Women do have their own needs, true, but it isn't that complicated. All it really takes is a partner who's willing to give, rather than just take.

Anyone with reams of fine print and convoluted instructions either doesn't like sex at all, and is just trying to find ways of avoiding it, or they don't like the way you're treating them, and are just avoiding intimacy with you.


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

That college Korean cutie who kept smiling at me disagrees.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> I've had this discussion with someone who hasn't been here in quite awhile. She just could not fathom that there are women who do not fake orgasms, nor have they ever. I know many do, but not all of us do. I told my husband from the beginning that there may be times when I don't... and that it's ok. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy having sex. And my reasons for not faking are very much like you stated: he can't fix it if he doesn't know it's broken, and it really benefits no one. I wouldn't be satisfied, and he would keep doing things that don't work... all because I didn't speak up. So, I decided from the start that I wasn't going to fake it... and never have.
> 
> ETA: And that's how we teach EACH OTHER to be better lovers. By speaking up. Don't speak up, don't learn. Speak up, you learn.



Oh I've faked it before. Never with my ex hb even though i never got them because he didn't give a sh!t. And never with my current hb because when I met him I had more orgasms then I'd ever had in my life, and since I suspected he had long term potential I decided to go forward with complete honesty. Now if I can't I just tell him, but given that my rate is over 90% he understands. It's important for the trust factor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I fake it all the time

"Are you listening to me?"


"Of course I am, dear. those women are all b^itches!"


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> In 42 years of being sexually active I will proudly say..I have never faked an orgasm. I don't see the point. I do not climax vaginally. I have to have direct clitoral stimulation...tongue or vibrator or hot tub jet. I don't have to climax every time we have sex..I enjoy it whether I climax or not. But I am not going to fake it.


Exactly like my wife!


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Meh...I've always tried to give my wife an orgasm first. She never really seemed interested. Says it feels good no matter what. Can't have a fulfilling sexlife with zero feedback.


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## patrickculverton (Feb 25, 2014)

Chumpless said:


> _The sad truth is men don't care enough about pleasing their partners. london escorts _
> 
> Oh, come on! What a crock of a generalization. What a trash magazine.
> 
> My wife doesn't want me to please her, and I wish more than anything she would give me that opportunity.


Have a positive mental attitude and keep your stress level low. If you feel good and self confident you may feel more sexual and attractive to your partner.

Prolonged stress can lead to a diminished interest in sex.[1] For people who work stressful jobs, or those with a long commute (we all know how stressful traffic can be), a pinched sex drive is often the result.
Men and women react differently to stressful situations. For men, sex is often a release of stressful energy; for women, stress makes sex anathema or beside the point.[2] Understand the different reactions between the sexes and talk with your partner about engineering the right, non-stressful time for sex.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

lol...cosmo places the blame on men...LMAO
ok...well I was reading mens fitness and it said the reason sex is bad is because the women get fat after marriage...


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I'm bad.

So so baaaaaad.


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## last worthless evening (Feb 11, 2014)

My wife knows that I get lots of pleasure, pleasing her - it's a big turn on plus it just makes me happy knowing that she feels good (whether it's from having an orgasm to just giving her a nice massage). She almost always has an orgasm, one way or another, (no, I don't do any "detective work" to confirm that, lol ) but she doesn't feel pressure to have one - every now and then she just says, I'm fine, don't need anything else tonight and I don't give her a hard time "insisting" that she has one. Takes all the pressure off, and she knows that if she does want one, I am always happy to oblige.


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