# If This Were You... (Opinions, Please)



## YinPrincess

Against my better judgment (lol), I just wanted to pose a few questions to the ladies...

If you recently found out that your husband had been talking to a woman at work - one he never mentioned to you, even though he'd speak daily of his interactions with male co-workers, would that send up a red-flag?

How about if he gets highly defensive and hostile when you ask questions about "the other woman"? What would you think if he said he didn't want to share any information because he "doesn't know what your intentions are/what you're capable of". What if he said your questions are "stupid" (like what do you talk about? What does she look like? How often do you talk to her? Kind of questions)...

What if he accused you of being "paranoid and suspicious" asking "dumb" questions, saying you are "weird" and "need help" because you were curious.

I told my hubby that it's normal and natural for a woman to respond to red-flags by asking for more information and accessing the "threat", especially considering that he has known this girl for the last couple of years and has never once mentioned her. Even though he talks about his male co-workers quite frequently... Is it out of line to think he is keeping this person a "secret" for a reason? If there was "nothing" to hide, then why omit it?

What if he accidentally called your DAUGHTER by this other woman's name? How would you feel?

My husband is completely dismissive and not understanding or empathetic AT ALL regarding this particular situation. He feels I am "out of line" for limiting his "friendships". He's even used the excuse of "overcoming" his "social anxiety" to talk to others... And yet when we went to a mutual friend's house a few nights ago, he made no effort to converse or socialize. And these are people he's known for years. He also has no trouble socializing with the men at his work.

Once, when going through a "Social Anxiety" checklist, he dismissed all of the symptoms, stating that the only thing that would make him uncomfortable is "asking someone for a date". Imagine he told you, his spouse, THAT. And weeks later you find out about this girl... Would you be cool about it? What if he refused to talk about it, labeling you as "crazy" or "insane" instead?

Should I just shut up? Would you? The fact that he is so defensive and hostile makes me feel very insecure. And he has no problems telling me how "insecure" and "pathetic" I sound. This hurts my feelings and I'm really doubtful that this is innocent... I think of all the times he's worked late, come home late, etc... And I wonder...

But many of you know my history... I want to ask what YOU would think in this situation...

Thanks for your honest input! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## justonelife

I would want to know why I'm married to a man that doesn't respect me. Why do you keep beating your head against this wall, Yin?


----------



## Hope1964

I'd be spitting nails. I'd be making him reread Not Just Friends. But then, you know my history too.

Before he cheated? I would probably have swallowed my misgivings and convinced myself I had nothing to worry about. And filed his reaction away in my brain, to bring out sporadically over the next however many years and chew on again and convince myself again it was nothing to worry about. And this would have resulted in enough angst that sooner or later I would explode at him for something that really WAS minor. but I would still never address the bigger issue.


----------



## YinPrincess

Also, what would be a "NORMAL" reaction you'd expect from a husband who is "innocent"? Sometimes I think I don't know what "normal" is, even though I have an idea... Thanks, ladies! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thoreau

Omfghsicbyat. After all your time here do you really need to ask? STOP THE INSANITY. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

I know you think I'm "dumb", Thoreau, but yes, I do want to ask. I want to know how other women would react and feel in this situation. I'd also like to know what they'd consider "normal" responses from their husbands. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane

I think, in a "normal" situation, he wouldn't hide it from you in the first place. He'd answer your questions without calling you pathetic for asking. 

And he'd want to reassure you that you were the love of his life. He wouldn't be so keen on protecting the other woman and his relationship with her, at your expense.


----------



## CanadianGuy

I worked with women and talked to my wife about them most everyday. 

Nothing to hide nothing to lose.


----------



## YinPrincess

Well, to be honest, I did tell him that I had no problems finding her and talking to her myself, just to ease my mind. This seems completely ridiculous to him, and whether or not anyone agrees, I have confronted the "other woman" (sometimes a clueless woman) in the past. He acts like I'm going to kill her or something... But he might just be afraid to be embarrassed... Either way, I know I can and probably will follow up with her to see what she says about their "friendship".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## norajane

YinPrincess said:


> Well, to be honest, I did tell him that I had no problems finding her and talking to her myself, just to ease my mind. This seems completely ridiculous to him, and whether or not anyone agrees, I have confronted the "other woman" (sometimes a clueless woman) in the past. He acts like I'm going to kill her or something... But he might just be afraid to be embarrassed... Either way, I know I can and probably will follow up with her to see what she says about their "friendship".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry that you have to live like that. That doesn't sound fulfilling.


----------



## Thoreau

As I have said before....you are the smartest dumb chick I know!!! Lol. Let it go. Dont fret over it. Stick to your plan. ***k him. You dont care....right? 

But wait theres more....for an extra processing and handling fee I will send you a free 2x4 to whack yourself with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

No, it's not. But it IS me who decides to stay at this point. No one is holding a gun to my head.

I asked hubby to introduce me to this girl. He is very much against it. He brings up "guy friends" I have worked with in the past - none of whom I have kept secret, and many of whom he has met. Seems we differ on how to handle the opposite sex outside of our marriage...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Thoreau said:


> As I have said before....you are the smartest dumb chick I know!!! Lol. Let it go. Dont fret over it. Stick to your plan. ***k him. You dont care....right?
> 
> But wait theres more....for an extra processing and handling fee I will send you a free 2x4 to whack yourself with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right. I am just still not ready to giveup yet, although this may be the deal-closer. I can forgive mistakes, but this seems more deliberate to me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thoreau

How many deal closers have we had now??? Just saying. Glad you found your cake finally. I was feeling neglected and unappreciated. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## justonelife

It's hard to say how a "normal" woman would react because this isn't a normal situation.

My husband talks to women and tells me about it. If I asked questions about a particular woman or wanted to meet her, he would have no problem with that. If I felt that boundaries were being crossed, he would respect my wishes and at least attempt to understand my concerns.

If my husband DID act the way you describe in your post, I would be nearly convinced he was having an affair or at least something very inappropriate is going on. He shouldn't act like this. Therefore, if he does act like this, it signals something is very wrong.


----------



## soccermom2three

I'm new here so I don't know your story so I'm answering just reading this one post.

Your husbands defensiveness and hostility really bother me. Same goes with calling you pathetic and stupid. If it was my husband I would think something is going on. It could be that it is totally one sided and he has a crush on this woman but SOMETHING is going on. I have been insecure in the past and my husband didn't act like this at all. He was very reassuring and thoughtful.

I think what really would hurt me is that he called your daughter by this woman's name. IMO, that means that she's on his mind.


----------



## Bellavista

Given my husband's inappropriate relationships in the past, he is aware that I reserve the right to ask any questions about any female he converses with.
He has said that he would appreciate me not calling his female clients and acting like a crazy woman and I have requested that he not develop strong friendships with his female clients.

If there is a history of boundary crossing, then I think the WS has to expect some degree of examination into their OS acquaintanceships.


----------



## YinPrincess

Thoreau said:


> How many deal closers have we had now??? Just saying. Glad you found your cake finally. I was feeling neglected and unappreciated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Another woman is certainly something I would not stand for. Period. REALLY. All the other stuff seems to kind of fall into a "grey area" for me. Accessing which is normal and which is not, is not one of my strong points, I'll admit it. My parents had a dysfunctional relationship, and it was the only relationship I grew up with. My dad got re-married and is pretty much non-existant in my life, and my mom remained single, although she has had a "roommate" for the past 20 years in which she is not romantically involved. He is the one I refer to as my "dad" or "step-dad" even though his relationship with my mom is strictly platonic.

And, I really loved the cake! Seriously! Very thoughtful of you! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

soccermom2three said:


> I'm new here so I don't know your story so I'm answering just reading this one post.
> 
> Your husbands defensiveness and hostility really bother me. Same goes with calling you pathetic and stupid. If it was my husband I would think something is going on. *It could be that it is totally one sided and he has a crush on this woman but SOMETHING is going on.* I have been insecure in the past and my husband didn't act like this at all. He was very reassuring and thoughtful.
> 
> I think what really would hurt me is that he called your daughter by this woman's name. IMO,* that means that she's on his mind.*


He definitely did not deny this, but at the time he claimed confusion because our daughter's name and this woman's name are similiar. He even went so far as to say, "Didn't we consider naming her that to begin with?" He has got to be nuts. The name in question is also the name of someone in which he had a very intense crush on... No way would I name my daughter that to remind him everyday!! LoL!! The fact that this has happened more than once is incredibly bothersome. Of course, he denies ever thinking of anyone else. He keeps his thoughts, fantasies and other things he thinks would piss me off, to himself. He never gives me the opportunity to demonstrate my maturity in these things, even though I was able to do that in past relationships.

I just think being too secretive and then calling me "nosy" or "intrusive" or "over-bearing" for wanting to know is uncalled for...

Thanks for your reply! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Bellavista said:


> Given my husband's inappropriate relationships in the past, *he is aware that I reserve the right to ask any questions about any female he converses with.*
> He has said that he would appreciate me not calling his female clients and *acting like a crazy woman* and I have requested that he not develop strong friendships with his female clients.
> 
> If there is a history of boundary crossing, then I think *the WS has to expect some degree of examination into their OS acquaintanceships.*


Thank you for your response. My husband does frequently tell me that I'll be "embarassing" myself if I confront the other woman... Never quite sure what to make of that statement except that maybe it's all in his head and she won't know what I'm talking about... Either way, I am prepared to take that risk. I really don't care what the other woman thinks of me... My intention will be warm and friendly and hopefully productive... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

I would be wondering why, if he's got nothing to hide, is he uncomfortable talking to me about this woman.


----------



## waiwera

YinPrincess said:


> I asked hubby to introduce me to this girl. He is very much against it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yin - i didn't like anything i was reading...lots of red flags.

Then I got to this quoted bit above... this is more a great big red banner than a flag!

I am worried FOR you Yin.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

YinPrincess said:


> Also, what would be a "NORMAL" reaction you'd expect from a husband who is "innocent"? Sometimes I think I don't know what "normal" is, even though I have an idea... Thanks, ladies!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm innocent. And a husband. So I can probably answer this. I do have a good friend who is a woman. She's one of my main climbing partners. We've shared a tent together. We don't talk all the time, but often enough. I'm also pretty good friends with her husband. We're bike riding partners.

Anyway, if my wife started getting jealous or freaked out about our friendship the first thing I would do is invite my wife to do stuff with us (which she's been invited many times before) and reiterate to her that there's no part of the friendship that is closed to her. Feel free to get on the phone with us whenever we talk. Feel free to check my texts. I've got nothing to hide. Feel free to come climbing or ask any of the people on the trip about how we acted. I'm an open book. Nothing is off limits. Affairs live in the shadows. All of our interactions are in complete daylight. Now that doesn't mean we don't flirt a little. I mean, I'm a flirt in person. My wife knows this. And I flirt the exact same way whether my wife is present or not, so it's not exactly a surprise. I flirt with her friends, her mother, her sister.....damn I'm starting to sound bad.

Hey Yin, how YOU doin?? (in my best Joey Tribbiani voice)


----------



## YinPrincess

:rofl: !!! That's great! I remember watching that show ages ago!! 

Well, WOM, you have a particularly special relationship with this woman - and your wife. She is lucky you are forthcoming and not at all secretive or defensive about your friend. That's how I was/am with my "guy" friends, even though I no longer hang out with them one on one. 

I texted a link to this thread to my husband and asked what he thought. He replied, 

"More your point of view vs. Defending my loyalty and feeling intrusted and unappreciated."

:facepalm:

This particular discussion today I recorded. I know I promised I'd stop, (and I did until recently... I've recorded 3 conversations); but I captured many of his demeaning, name-calling put-downs and insults. He can't deny it's him, he can't say he used a different tone of voice or "meant it" differently. He doesn't know he was recorded, but it's really for my own sanity. To make sure I heard what I heard.

I so wish that I could share it with him, and maybe HE'D see how HE sounds to an outside ear. Not that it would make a difference...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Staar - I don't know how you deal with the situation... I would be flipping out. 

Oh, and my husband thinks my account is biased and inaccurate. He also wants everyone to know that I was yelling at him and he's "tired of being interrogated". (Yeah I raised my voice a few times - I got excited. And yes, I've been asking a lot of questions because I'm trying to figure this all out... He keeps fielding all my questions so I must ask the same thing more than once). Have pity on him... I am sooo abnormal... LoL!! Wish I could post the recording, lol! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

YinPrincess said:


> Wish I could post the recording, lol!


Vocaroo | Online voice recorder


----------



## YinPrincess

Gah! I wanted to hear everyone and share on the other thread with Vocaroo!!! Unfortunately, does not work with mobile phones! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

You sent a link to this thread to your husband. So he's reading here?


----------



## YinPrincess

He does, on occasion. He actually has an account but he never posts. He pretty much only reads threads that I send him...

After I got back from running errands, he pulled me next to him on the bed and said he had "a better idea" of what was going on in my mind about the situation. He apologized, but only after I mentioned just how nasty he'd been earlier. He also followed it up with "explanations". (I HATE that). He now admits he was defensive and hostile, but again fielded his train of thought back to me... I ask "weird" questions, he didn't know what my motives were, etc. (You can hear me saying explicitly on the recording that I believe my questions are NORMAL, becoming upset/frustrated because he skirts around the questions, wouldn't answer them, and then attacked ME yes indeed might cause someone to become upset and raise their voice a little. I also tell him REPEATEDLY to stop putting me down, calling me names and labeling me. I ask repeatedly for him to talk to me with respect, to listen with an open and loving heart, to put himself in my shoes...)

So, sometimes it helps for him to read others' perspectives, although I guarantee you, he'll do it again... ::sigh::
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## waiwera

aw yin... so sorry.
when is enough...enough.
xx


----------



## Dollystanford

oh Yin, you know the answer to this question I think
Of course he shouldn't be hiding this from you - if it was innocent on his part and hers then why on earth would he? My ex was always perfectly open about women he worked with and acquaintances until he started cheating and then shut up like a clam.


----------



## Thewife

Ah Yin, 
This has happened to me a few years ago and I am still searching for the answers. 

My H never mentioned about the female colleagues (all sl*ts) working with him until I stumbled upon a porn sent to his work email by one of them, although he had not replied it and told me that he ignored them knowing where they are getting at, I was not convinced there is nothing more to the story. He was also defensive and blamed me for being suspicious and need help. After years of asking and probing his answer now is, he had no respect for these women and did not like me to know or meet them in anyway, hence he did what he did. "Like I believe it". I wish I had did something more than letting go to clarify it at that time so that it won't come haunting me sometimes still. 

What is his reason for not letting you meet her?


----------



## Pault

Ok Yin Im Male and Ive never cheated. Reading your input and putting myself in your shoes. You are not nuts, insane or paraniod. If the thing that triggers your marridge survival mode kicks in its because something has hit the red button. If my W (roles reversed here for you) was showing these signs, was making me feel like Im suffering paranoia and then starts to use the otehr parties name "in error" then Id be exactly like you, perhaps even worse. Yes, recording is good for you because in the cold light of day when your gut is not churning and you listen to it you may certainly see that the name calling, the attitude etc your thought oyu heard turns out to be actual. Sadly you may need it at some point later...

Any partner in a marridge who feels like there is issue of trust should be allowed to say "ay, whats happening , clear up this and be truthful". The partner should if they love you be so transparent you could see next weeks lottery numbers through them. If not and they are making changes to stories, hiding things, even if they say I do it because youll react like this then they KNOW they shouldnt be doing it and are decieving you because they are again hiding things. You hide things because you dont want people toi know. The reaction is (IMO) one of crap im caught. 
Keep your own council, remeber if hes reading things here hes using advice to cover his tracks. Counter terrorism within marrridge.


----------



## YinPrincess

Nah, he only reads the things I send him. He's pretty much not interested otherwise... But I wish he were! He could learn A LOT here, but this marriage is not what he's interested in focusing on. Still pondering how exactly I am going to approach this girl... Let me add that I really do believe she's an innocent party... It's probably my husband with the crush (which he denies, of course)...

Thanks for all the reasurring answers. Being told that I'm crazy and abnormal is abusive and defensive and I'm fighting hard not to let it sink in... Those words have a way of making you believe them after a while...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tynan

Yin:
Transparancy is a must in a healthy marriage...always, no exceptions.
Ty


----------



## SoWhat

Just to be a contrarian (and not because I lack sympathy for you), 

What if he held back mentioning his interactions because he feared an angry, jealous reaction in the first place? 

I once dated a woman who would flip out if I ever mentioned any interaction with ANY woman I was not related to. If I interacted with a woman that the ex knew was attractive, it was double-flip-out. So I stopped mentioning all conversations with women. 

If your H thinks he'll be met with an angry, jealous reaction no matter what, what does he gain by being transparent? Let's assume, for the moment, that he feels nothing at all for this woman and that he believes you'll try to prevent/end a friendship whenever you learn of it.


----------



## YinPrincess

A man shouldn't fear a woman's reaction. He should have couth and dignity, not cowardice and secrecy.

I might be able to understand if we haven't been through this before, many, many times. I'm not the "flip-out" sort. I am usually very calm and mellow, and on the odd occasion I do "flip-out" it is not for the context, but the content. He is extremely disrespectful, defensive and nasty to me. EVEN when I am calm, rational and asking for him to listen from a place of love and understanding. He has interacted with many women and has disclosed this to me before without consequence. Do I feel protective? Sure! He's my husband! But I don't lose my head... Until he starts with the trash-talking. I have no respect for him because of how he handles things. A man should be strong and even, not childish and secretive. Just my opinion... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoWhat

I am sorry about the abusiveness from him. That's ugly on anyone. And, to me, anger issues are a totally separate issue.

I do think it would behoove you to ask yourself if you really are as laid back about his interactions with other females as you say. It seems to be a common theme among my friends that the women they date are totally fine with them having female friends - until the two of them become exclusive. 

For me, it went beyond female friends into any interactions with females at all. It didn't have to be "flipping out" - sometimes it was just passive aggressiveness, a few minutes silent treatment, or quiet rememberance that would pop up again when their was drama. I didn't see the point in the drama. She would certainly have just said that she was being 'protective', but there's absolutely no way that jealousy, and the negative reactions that stem from it, can enforce fidelity. She wasn't protecting ME from being stolen at all; if I wanted to run off with the girl at the cash register, I'd do it! Why mention to interaction with the girl at the cash register, then, if it's only going to arouse needless suspicion, drama, and anger?


----------



## YinPrincess

I think you're letting your own experiences color your "idea" of what I'm like. Do I get upset? Sure! But it is NOT because of other women, it is because of the way he REACTS to my normal curiosity. Am I supposed to not be curious? Not ask questions? No. His reaction is his and mine is mine. I own that I have, a few times, mentally broken down, cried, screamed, left, etc. Because of the way he berates me. Does it happen all the time? No. Probably once in the last year. And I also have that incident recorded.

Our fights become about what he says and how he speaks to me, rather than the original subject. I'm not expecting him to never speak to another woman again. I'm not expecting him not to look and find other women attractive. 

I DO expect him to treat me with dignity and respect when I bring up my feelings or ask questions because that is what I deserve. He has had at least one EA in the past and I feel that I'm entitled to know if that is going to happen again. 

I think after reading this thread he has a better idea of what boundaries are in a marriage and how to respect them. But I guarantee you that he hasn't learned squat about how to speak with someone using love and compassion. I'm learning to blow it off. It's HIS malfunction, not mine. It still hurts, but I accept that I cannot change him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoWhat

I'm sure that my experiences are coloring how I perceive the situation. I come into this with a giant bias. 

But I wasn't saying that you *are* like that. I'm saying - ask yourself how you'd react if you were in his shoes.

Now, the abuse and the anger and the lack of respect------ totally uncalled for. I'm guessing it manifests itself in other areas too.


----------



## YinPrincess

I am certain, in his head, he is using that "She'll be pissed so I just won't tell her" excuse. In reality, he becomes so nasty when something is discovered, (because he is not very good at hiding things from me), that I DO become upset. And it's HIS self-fulfilling prophecy. In the last year I've come a long way to be as collected and unemotional as possible when dealing with these things. He is not justified in lying or omitting truths with the intent to deceive because he fears a reaction.

I don't think any man should be afraid to be open and honest, EVEN if he thinks it will cause undo drama. Let's think about this for a second - deceiving another will actually bring about the drama you hoped to avoid all along.

So what if she gets pissed. SoWhat? (LoL)! Let her get pissed. You, as the man, can say, "I know that you are feeling some uncomfortable feelings about this right now, but you can be assured that I will listen and I will comfort you. I will try to understand. I will not be defensive and I will not attack you. But if you step out-of-line in any way, the discussion will be over." Er, or something to that effect. You know? Have compassion. 

If you're with a woman that far gone, hiding things is only going to exacerbate the situation. *Being truthful gives her the opportunity to work on herself and her coping skills.* Being respectful allows her to see that she is important. Listening and understanding shows her you really care about her feelings, even if you don't agree with them.

A man should NEVER fear a woman's reaction.. Unless she's capable of causing physical harm, of course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoWhat

I agree with you that a man should not fear a woman's reaction. 
I didn't use the lines you used "I know that you are feeling some uncomfortable feelings..." but I always thought I tried to be very understanding at first. But the question is - how long should it take for someone to 'work on' something like that? How long should one expect to be interrogated about every interaction with the opposite sex? 

I think the proper thing to do probably should have been to use your lines two or three times and then make it clear that I was not interested in those conversations anymore and that if it continued to be a source of disagreement I'd have to say goodbye. That's truthfulness, I think, and it shows a clear demarcation of boundaries.

Just as I don't expect a woman to stick with repeated verbally abusive behavior of one form, I don't expect a man (or woman) to have to deal with constant suspicion and accusation either; it erodes a relationship. I don't think anyone should be expected to forever wait as someone works on their coping skills. I think there is something wrong with someone getting consistently pissed at their partner for utterly blameless behavior. 

I didn't mean to make you into my ex! I promise! I just think sometimes a little self-check is in order; if nothing else, it helps you clarify the issue with the SO. And nice job on the SoWhat!


----------



## YinPrincess

> I didn't use the lines you used "I know that you are feeling some uncomfortable feelings..." but I always thought I tried to be very understanding at first.


Miscommunication happens here a lot, I've noticed... When a woman expresses some sort of concern, or "complaint" as my husband likes to call them, I think a man's first plan of action is to tell her she's silly and there's nothing to be worried about. Maybe HE doesn't see anything to be worried about, but the woman may feel blown off and invalidated. It shuts down the communication and invites escalation. How might one of us psychos show how concerned we are? Well, it can get very ugly for some, lol!! I think the best thing you can do is be open and honest, and give her feelings and observations some credit. Don't tell her she didn't see what she saw, or didn't hear what she heard. You know? 



> I don't expect a man (or woman) to have to deal with constant suspicion and accusation either; it erodes a relationship. I don't think anyone should be expected to forever wait as someone works on their coping skills.


If it's taking someone "forever" to work on their coping skills, then they really aren't trying all that hard!! Goodbye is right!!

Constant suspicion is unacceptable. If it's daily, and every single woman is a threat, that's very, very extreme. Prolonged "interrogation" is also unacceptable. There is only so much you can learn about a situation before you have to decide how to make peace with it. With openness and the intention of soothing, reassuring and being forth-coming, I honestly wouldn't expect such a conversation to last more than a few minutes. (With a reasonable person).

If you're like my husband, you'll skirt the issue, lie, defend, attack, etc. And what started out as a simple statement of one's feelings can become a fight to be heard (by both sometimes), and me, personally, it becomes largely about the manner in which he is treating and talking to me. I feel better now that I've learned to remain calm (usually) and be consistent in my communication. If he derails the conversation, I simply don't acknowledge it. I restate my intention if I feel he needs to hear it. "I am curious. I want to protect my marriage because I am invested in you. It is normal to be curious and ask questions. It's simply an exchange of information." Etc.

Provide as little bait as possible during these discussions. The more you bring up what SHE did, (deflecting), or change the subject or trivialize her feelings, the more you're going to talk and the longer it will take. Much better just say you understand, and mean it. Doesn't help one iota if your intent is to pacify.



> I didn't mean to make you into my ex! I promise! I just think sometimes a little self-check is in order; if nothing else, it helps you clarify the issue with the SO. And nice job on the SoWhat!


No worries. My husband mentioned before that he dated someone who would lose their cool, throw things at him, yell and scream, etc. And I think that's why he is sensitive to the littlest sign of frustration from me. He made me his ex, too. LoL!!

I agree with the self-check. I don't think I could possibly analyze myself any further... Part of that came about from being consistently blamed for every little thing that went wrong. It got to the point where I was wanting to lose it pretty bad. It's about perception and being able to maintain focus on your intent. When you open your mouth is it because you want to say something to hurt? Or is it that you're scared and need reassurance. I had a hard time asking for what I wanted. It felt cliche and unnatural, lol!! Now that I've learned healthier communication habits I can clearly see his reaction will be the same, no matter what. Because he has not grown. I suppose in time, but I'm betting on never... LoL!!

Yeah... I love a good pun. I'm corny like that!! LoL!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## josepe

@ just one life,,,,, banged my head against that wall a few times even tried rocket propulsion once or twice, sadly no dent in wall. big dent in head ,,, but no dent in wall. 
i think we both know theres a myriad of reasons why but they all boil down to 2,,kids and self image


----------



## josepe

yin,,, the only thing any human is entitled to is death. but what really got me going was he called your daughter this other womans name. i know ,, or at least can empathize , with that feeling. he's not going to change. 
as for how i can empathize with ya,, well, my ex wife screamed steve in mid orgasms, my name is joe. 
from what i can tell ,,, in a relationship, you have to have trust. doesn't have to be complete 100% trust, but enough trust in what they say to be true. lies and cheating break that trust.
if you are wanting to R this i can't help you i can only advise that you dump him and look else where.


----------



## YinPrincess

I've finally accepted that he will not change. It took a REALLY long time to get over that - pretty much the two years I've been here. He will never again be who he was when we first started dating, because that was him being on his "best behavior" - he's now "too comfortable" with me to be that guy again. The memories make my heart ache, but I've "accepted" this.

I've worked on me. There were so many things I was doing wrong, that I didn't even realize it. I was very much an emotional person (still am) and have always had troubles with my internal regulation and self-soothing. Since I was diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder and severe Anxiety/Panic Disorder (amongst other things), I've learned how to better respond to stress. When he's mean I don't just break down and cry anymore - or run away from him, wherever we are. There were times we'd be in a store and he'd make a snide comment or gesture and that was it - I'd just leave the store and start walking. Didn't matter if I was miles away from home, I just wanted to get away from him. I was really ill-equipped to deal with his personality shift.

As for him calling our daughter by this other woman's name... Yeah, absolutely crushing. I can't imagine how YOU felt in your situation, Joe. That is just mindblowing, and I'm very sorry that you had to go through that. Just. Wow...

I have some trust in my husband. For the most part he is predictable, (even the worst of him). He's responsible and pays the bills. He reads and runs on the treadmill. He's in bed by 9pm every night. He operates on routine, and hardly ever deviates from it. That part is stable. So, I actually KNOW, for sure, that he hasn't spent any time with this person, other than at work. Every morning before he leaves I get a knot in my throat just thinking about it... But I'm thinking of it less and less. But I don't know if I trust him completely in that department. If she were to reciprocate, or come on to him... Would he take the bait? Hmm... If you asked me this a few months ago I would have said absolutely not. He's very suspicious of others, ESPECIALLY women.

But NOW, I'm not so sure... He has a lot of contempt and resentment towards me for A LOT. This all began when I got pregnant with our daughter... Neither of us wanted children... He resents the fact that I used to "make" him chase me when I reached my sensory/anxiety threshholds. (Truth was I wanted AWAY from him... I never wanted him to chase me. I even took the bus home a few times, lol). He resents me for not working this last year. (I had mistakenly believed that I would be able to return to work a few months after the baby was born - not so). Just a bunch of things that have made him take the attitude of looking down upon me, and not putting me on a pedestal like he used to.

He probably would like the attention from someone else. Someone younger, different, someone he doesn't share the worst of himself with... I just don't know how far he would go. That bothers me a lot.

So, currently, we are in limbo. Been here for awhile and we teeter back and forth between staying and going. Actually, he's content as long as I don't "complain". LoL!! If someone left it would be me. I'm the one who finds too much stress and urgency in issues, whereas he can just forget them, ignore them and never speak of them.

Additionally, I strongly suspect that he has Schizoid Personality (oooohhh I mentioned it! LoL) and Negativistic Personality. If you look those up you can get a very accurate description of my husband, personality-wise.

Why I stick around, I don't know. A bunch of reasons. Or "excuses", depending on how you view them. Could I put up with his chronic negativity and insensitivity? Sure. I'm learning to not let it hurt me so much.

But would I prefer to be loved and adored? Absolutely.

Thanks to all who provided their perspectives. I'm glad to know that I wouldn't be the only person on the planet to find his words offensive and unneccessary. Sometimes, I have doubts. (Isn't that scary)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Yes, that is me... A few less pounds of me (before I got pregnant).

And... "Home skillet" omg :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Never heard that one before!! LoL!! :lol:

He also has struggled with addiction. I did not know it when we got married, but he was addicted to Tramadol. I found out when he started going through SEVERE withdrawals. (I really thought he was going to die, have a seizure, whathaveyou). This went on for a solid two weeks... With several months of lingering symptoms.

Initially, I was very, very, VERY upset with him. He knew, being my friend for several years, that my previous relationship ended pretty nasty due to my ex becoming an addict. I was so upset that he hid his addiction from me, but I guess he was ashamed. He asked me to help him through it. He asked me to give him a chance and told me he believed we were in each others' lives for a "greater good".

I decided to have compassion. To help him through the worst of it, and I did. I made him rice socks and heated them up for him when he got the chills at all hours of the night. I rubbed his tummy and ran my fingers through his hair until he fell asleep. I took his nastiness and sucked it up because I knew he was feeling terrible. I ran him baths, and I waited on him hand and foot. I didn't talk to him, especially about anything heavy or loaded. Things got better, and his (brief) period of sobriety is one that I regard as the absolute best times we've been together.

He was able to be happy and smile without all the mind-numbing chemicals in his body. He didn't act or claim to be constantly "tired" all the time. We went out, did things, had FUN.

That just didn't last very long, though. Maybe a few months before he was stealing pills at work and making weekly trips to the dentist and getting pain pills. Then, earlier this year, he began IC at my suggestion. Big mistake. They have been prescribing him Prozac. Another SSRI. And he's now back to having his brain numbed and dumbed. ::sigh::

He's so good at pretending to be "normal". Of being "ok". He's a professional actor, and he has his IC convinced that he's simply the victim of a domineering and controlling wife. The only time that might have been remotely true was in the beginning of our relationship. I was pretty strong willed and did not put up with any crap. The stuff I put up with now I never would have put up with back then. I was happily single. Had my own place, my cars. My job. I was happy and content.

Oh well, I suppose that's enough griping from me, lol!!

What addictions have you struggled with? I, myself, am addicted to nicotine. I hate it. Absolutely hate it. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

LoL Thanks. I don't hear that very often, lol!

Nothing wrong with making someone laugh! I love to laugh. And be silly and make others laugh... LoL!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Yin. You know it's effed up.

TRUST YOURSELF.

dang.

He's a piece of crap who treats you like dirt. I hate that. You need to hate it enough to leave.


----------



## YinPrincess

I know. I'm just assuming less responsibility for his behavior these days. I see him for what he is, and don't think as little of myself anymore because of what he says.

It's kind of funny... Once my perspective evolved over time, watching (listening) to him become so indignant and callous has become... Interesting. I've really lost a lot of respect for him. I am conscious of my reactions, or more so, now. I take it less personally and think, "He is really f*cking pathetic." Sometimes I get down on myself for making such poor choices. At the time I thought they were the right choices. :/

Then I look in the mirror. I see where I am. Who I'm with.. It's inevitable. I just have to get to that point, and I pray it doesn't take me a lifetime. I know I can't really maintain any sort of self-respect and come home to him everyday. I know I deserve better.

Damn my indecisiveness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Yeah, I believe she would recommend the same, friend of hers or not.

I'm still just trying to get over the "marriage is forever", "stand by your man", "suck it up/get over it" brainwashing. Of course, hubby's family is highly religious and they believe God doesn't want us to get divorced.

I don't think God would want someone to talk to me the way my husband does.

I have tried, literally, just about every conceivable thing to help us, help ourselves, help our marriage. It's never going to happen. It's never going to get better.

Eh. I feel so defeated just typing that. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

that_girl said:


> Hey Josepe! Have you been following Yin's story for almost 2 years?
> 
> Prolly not. Step back, buddy


:rofl: Love ya, TG!!! How are you doing? I need to catch up on your thread... Thinking of you and kiddos... Still in shock, honestly. Just wishing there was something, anything I could do... I know, I know. You'll be fine.

Geez. I think I'm taking it harder than you are!!!  lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Hey, lady. Things are good. Kids are ok. We will be fine. He and I are amicable and just taking it day by day, working towards the finality. But it's a good thing. 

I have my moments but that's expected. Better than living in lies. Too many lies from him to even pretend I can trust him ever again. I just hope he works on himself. BUt that's not my problem.

YOU, however.....c'mon, lady! At some point, this shet will just get TOO MUCH and leaving will not seem so scary.


----------



## YinPrincess

I know. I'm getting better... Damn but I guess I just seem to really take my time anymore, lol!!

This is typical for me. Meet someone, fall in love, discover some fatal flaw and sulk and b*tch for a few years... Then leave. LoL!!

Don't know why it has to take me so dang long. &@%!#!!! 

I'm glad you and your hubby are at least getting along. I think hubby and I could easily be at that point, even now... If I just.stop.trying. ::sigh:: Yeah, we were better off as friends.

Have you posted anymore paintings?!?! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

:rofl:

I didn't answer you because your question is silly.

If someone is being treated like dog crap in any relationship, they should leave. Man, woman, whatever.

I'd give the same advice to anyone being treated the way Yin is treated. And I have.

But I'm done talking with you. I'm sick, not feeling well, and have no desire to talk to someone who has all the answers about my "sisterhood" :rofl:


----------



## SimplyAmorous

You know this YinPrincess, it's a very bad case of Co-dependency... the longer you stay in this, the more life you are wasting with a man who is incapable of giving you what all of us need to thrive and feel fulfilled....it's sucking every piece of you down with it..

Signs of a Codependent Relationship



> "Codependency, by definition, means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself," Tessina says. "It's kind of a weird phrase, and it doesn't sound like it means a one-sided relationship. But that's what it is. It means you're trying to make the relationship work with someone else who's not."





> The moment that can nudge a relationship toward healthy change *is the moment you decide you've had enough.*
> 
> "Often the thing that gets an alcoholic to go to AA, or narcissists to see that something's wrong," Tessina says, "is losing somebody. It's ironic that the person who wants to stay there forever and give and give has to say 'OK, I'm through. I'm done. I'm leaving,' before the partner will turn around and say 'Oh, wait a minute, I really do care about you.'"
> 
> Bochner has seen clients go through the same realization. "The willingness to leave is often what sets things straight. They have to get to a point where they have to save themselves by saying 'I love you, but I have to take care of me.' Then, sometimes, the relationship actually changes."


----------



## YinPrincess

> with a man who is incapable of giving you what *all of us* need to thrive and feel fulfilled...


You really hit something with me here... (I know this is *not* the point you were trying to make, but I feel a need to discuss it a little).

Any time that I mention that I want or need my husband's love, affection and approval, his response is consistently, "You shouldn't be so insecure." "It's not my job to "fix" you!" "Your feelings are not my problem." "Why are you so needy?" "Yeah, you're feeling soooo ripped off!" "All you do is find ways to be deprived by me!" "You're soooo deprived, guess I'm the bad guy." "If you don't like it then why don't you leave?!" oh, and my favorite, "Grow up!"

What he neglects to realize, (and again, my co-dependent self has accepted that this will not ever change unless and until HE wants it to), is that almost all women, all people, for that matter, need that special kind of love, affection and attention that we just *can't* give ourselves or get from friends or family! It IS a "need" for validation, and IMO, the only time it's really not attention-wh0ring, is when we seek to be approved of, reassured and accepted by our *spouse*. Big difference from just randomly fishing for compliments from whomever will hand them out or repeating positive affirmations to ourselves. It does seem NECESSARY. I am not thriving without it. I DO feel deprived of a very significant aspect of marriage.

I KNOW that I am Co-Dependent. Yes, I've known for a long, long time... But knowing isn't enough. Even knowing the things that must be done to correct it does not mean it will be corrected.

I've done a lot of work on myself, but I still have so much to do and so far to grow... It can be quite overwhelming to actually gather all of my faults and flaws and actively correct them, one by one. And I STILL won't be perfect when I'm done, if I ever even reach that point... (Doubt it).

*"Co-dependency, by definition, means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself"*

This is me. I guess I was raised that way... Saw my mom put everything, and I mean EVERYTHING before her own needs... I should have learned from her example, but instead I repeat it. It didn't serve her. My dad walked all over her, she never complained. He cheated numerous times... Then finally left and married one of his homewreckers. I am terrified at the thought of that happening to me!!

I think that culture in general, favors (favored?) a selfless and giving person, usually the woman. Expected to serve and keep her mouth shut. Cater, care and never complain or behave "selfishly". It might be Old-Fashioned, but that was my example!

Of course, Co-Dependents are the extreme example of this... Some being passive-aggressive, resentful and manipulative. No one can fix them, (their attitudes and perspectives) except THEMSELVES, so I can understand that my husband thinks it is futile to "fix" me, by "giving in" to my requests, (or "demands" as he likes to call them). He seems to think that I want him to "fix" me, and that is not the case at ALL. I want him to show love and acceptance towards me, flawed as I am. No more, no less.

He, on the other hand, is on the other end of the spectrum, at times appearing overly self-absorbed and uninterested in others. He is aloof, independent and seemingly incapable of providing ANY *sincere* love and affection. (Not true, but it is rare). He can be defensive, suspicious and feel intruded upon and burdened by my requests. He often does what he can to keep me at a distance - shutting me down and alievating himself of any type of intimacy. (Because that's SCARY)! 

It has been a struggle for balance because we've both been telling the other what they "should" be. We've both been wrong and we've both been self-serving at times.

Being a co-dependent, I have a hard time un-tangling myself and seeing myself as separate. Unfortunately, separating is exactly the thing I need to do, to work on this particular facet of my self-identity. I'm not going to lie - I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE. It will HURT. It will be UNCOMFORTABLE. I don't want to be uncomfortable!

BUT! I don't want to continue to feel rejected by a man, equally imperfect as I am. I don't want to address those perspectives of defeat and failure. So I live in a sort of Cognitive Dissonance. 

Do I believe staying is doing me any good at all? Can't say that I do. I'm being enabled and I am enabling.

How can I KNOW this, and NOT make a move? I even know what the move IS! So why can't I just do it? I don't have the answers to my own questions. All I know is, I feel paralyzed. Maybe I'm afraid of change... Who knows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

> It's ironic that the person who wants to stay there forever and give and give has to say 'OK, I'm through. I'm done. I'm leaving,' before the partner will turn around and say 'Oh, wait a minute, I really do care about you."


Deep down, I don't feel that this will be the result, and that is what I fear most.

I need to leave for MYSELF, and not for HIM. And right now, I'd be leaving to prove a point... Illicit some kind of response. And I will break down when I never get that phone call... "I love you, I miss you, I need you."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## pidge70

You also need to leave for your daughter's sake. Do you have any idea how this dysfunctional relationship will affect her? The older she gets, the more she is like a sponge. She will soak up every interaction or lack of interaction between you and your H. You may be a big girl that can handle it but, how is this even remotely fair to your daughter? She will be looking up to you as her model on how to be a woman. Is this what you want her to see?


----------



## YinPrincess

I know. It has been on mind every waking millisecond. For the time being, she has been staying with my sister. I can't even BEGIN to tell you just how overwhelmingly incompetent, guilty and depressed I have felt these last two weeks. All I think about is her, and I fret over what to do, what to do, what should I do??? Because she is there and I am here.

I went to visit the other day, and even though she was sitting right next to me, she reached for my sister to pick her up when she became upset. I remember just running into the bathroom and sobbing!!! I just couldn't even attempt to stop... It just poured out of me. Part of it was a sense of rejection, part of it was feeling like I've really got to do something, and SOON. Like YESTERDAY. How did things get to this point? It feels like I'm trying to wake up from a nightmare!! When she looks at me, she looks like someone who is trying to figure out where they know you from... I would rather be disemboweled than see that look in her eyes again...

Even if she comes home, she is no better. She will see me like I saw my mom... And she will suffer the same pain I suffer now, and I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy...

I guess I really don't have any other options than to leave... No, I have been over this with a fine-toothed comb, analyzed every microscopic detail... And there is no other logical/rational choice (without my husband's corporation).

I REALLY feel quite depressed now. I miss her like crazy... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Why is the baby with your sister? Did I miss something?

This is no good. Don't leave that baby without you for much longer...


----------



## YinPrincess

About two weeks ago, I got into with my husband... I got so worked up that I think I made myself sick. I had uncontrollable vomiting for nearly two hours. It woke my husband up in the baby's room. He even came into the bedroom and when he saw I was sick, he was rubbing my back and fetching me water and whatnot. I was so ill that I couldn't even MOVE from the bedroom. My stomach was empty and it just kept trying to empty itself... I felt like I was going to choke or aspirate... My husband couldn't take me to the hospital because he has Keratoconus and cannot drive in the dark. (This is like 3am). He finally called an ambulance because I just couldn't stop. It was NOT "normal". 

So, I went to the hospital and was there a few hours. My husband only showed up when I was being discharged..

I went home that morning and the meds, sickness and lack of sleep had me passed out in no time.

I would wake up at 11pm that night to my husband getting sick as well! (I thought he had what I had, but it turns out he'd spent the day drinking). Yup, that's when the vomit-throwing incident happened. :/

My mom came over and picked up my daughter. I was much too sick and my husband couldn't be trusted to care for her when he's drinking himself into oblivion.

It was just supposed to be for a few days, but my mom kept postponing, saying she wanted to spend more time with her.

It's now become apparent to me, through the subtle hints from she and my sis, that they are trying to hold onto my baby so I will just give up and move down there with them. It's working... Every day without her is just agonizing... Just crying and being depressed and feeling sorry for myself... And missing her. Omg. Missing having her laugh, her smile, her babbling. I literally have just lost the will to get out of bed anymore. I don't eat, I don't sleep. I just am a useless mess. It's eating me alive to be honest... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Omgitsjoe

YinPrincess said:


> About two weeks ago, I got into with my husband... I got so worked up that I think I made myself sick. I had uncontrollable vomiting for nearly two hours. It woke my husband up in the baby's room. He even came into the bedroom and when he saw I was sick, he was rubbing my back and fetching me water and whatnot. I was so ill that I couldn't even MOVE from the bedroom. My stomach was empty and it just kept trying to empty itself... I felt like I was going to choke or aspirate... My husband couldn't take me to the hospital because he has Keratoconus and cannot drive in the dark. (This is like 3am). He finally called an ambulance because I just couldn't stop. It was NOT "normal".
> 
> So, I went to the hospital and was there a few hours. My husband only showed up when I was being discharged..
> 
> I went home that morning and the meds, sickness and lack of sleep had me passed out in no time.
> 
> I would wake up at 11pm that night to my husband getting sick as well! (I thought he had what I had, but it turns out he'd spent the day drinking). Yup, that's when the vomit-throwing incident happened. :/
> 
> My mom came over and picked up my daughter. I was much too sick and my husband couldn't be trusted to care for her when he's drinking himself into oblivion.
> 
> It was just supposed to be for a few days, but my mom kept postponing, saying she wanted to spend more time with her.
> 
> It's now become apparent to me, through the subtle hints from she and my sis, that they are trying to hold onto my baby so I will just give up and move down there with them. It's working... Every day without her is just agonizing... Just crying and being depressed and feeling sorry for myself... And missing her. Omg. Missing having her laugh, her smile, her babbling. I literally have just lost the will to get out of bed anymore. I don't eat, I don't sleep. I just am a useless mess. It's eating me alive to be honest...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your husband is drinking himself drunk ..... instead of caring for his daughter ?? Sorry but what's wrong with that picture ??? 

My 1 year old can be a handful but OMG I soo soo much enjoy his laughs and giggles when he's not in a bad mood haa !! Good luck and hope you feel better !


----------



## that_girl

SO.....You are staying there for him and other people are taking care of the child?

Come on, Yin. Big girl pants time. GET OUT. Go to your kid.


----------



## YinPrincess

Omgitsjoe said:


> Your husband is drinking himself drunk ..... instead of caring for his daughter ?? Sorry but what's wrong with that picture ???


Exactly. I was sick, passed out and trusting him to care for her. I didn't even KNOW he had a 5th of vodka. I literally passed out about 10am and woke up at 11pm to him getting sick. And I was trying to be NICE! I was rubbing his back and getting paper towels and trying to help him up when he exploded. He drank HALF of that big bottle all by himself! I was so mad once I smelled the alcohol on his breath! I like to have my beers and I'm not against alcohol, but I can't stand someone who can't handle themselves! And then to think... He's the one who was caring for our daughter!!! And he's getting TANKED. Ugh. If I think about it too much I swear I'll get sick again. 

I have expressed concerns about trusting him with our baby many, many times here and all anyone has told me is to trust him, let him wing it, let him figure it out. And then this happens. I was and am so disappointed and disgusted with him. How could he be so irresponsible?!

Not to mention that when my mom found out, she had a sh*t-fit because she thought that I had been drinking, too and that's why *I* was sick! (Which isn't the case. I've pretty much stopped drinking anything for the last month... Only a beer here and there).

Still. Wtf was he thinking?! :wtf:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

that_girl said:


> SO.....You are staying there for him and other people are taking care of the child?
> 
> Come on, Yin. Big girl pants time. GET OUT. Go to your kid.


:iagree:

If being separated from your daughter isn't going to be that push you need to leave him what will be?

Chances are your mom and sister are keeping her to try and get you to do what you need to do to make a better life for you and your daughter, by leaving him.


----------



## that_girl

And if he was drunk when supposedly in charge of a baby, that's neglect. If i was your mom, I'd take the baby too. 

Come on, woman!


----------



## YinPrincess

that_girl said:


> SO.....You are staying there for him and other people are taking care of the child?
> 
> Come on, Yin. Big girl pants time. GET OUT. Go to your kid.


Well, I didn't know that it would end up this way. My mom took the baby because I was sick... After a few days I was well enough to start asking her when she was going to bring her back, and she kept telling me to "rest and get better" and that she "wanted to spend more time with her". After a week, I was getting pretty impaient... She just kept telling me the same thing over and over and it was getting to the point where I was really concerned and confused about what was going on... And my sister... She just kept inviting me to "come stay the night" and trying to bait me with promises of movies, computers, games, shopping, etc. Honestly, it takes A LOT to get me to her house because it's just so noisy and loud and overwhelming there. Too many people under one roof...

Last night I went to see them again... They both made it pretty clear that they wanted my baby to stay... And for me to join them.

At my sister's house... My daughter can crawl and walk around, play with her cousins, do things that aren't possible at home... And it's been hurting me, thinking of taking her away and back into a boring house where she's restricted because of the staircase and whatnot. I think it's good for mental well-being to be around them and be within a family that does things together, loves each other, talks to each other... You know?

So I really don't have a choice... It is almost as if I HAVE to go stay with them.

Why that breaks my heart, I don't know!!! As we speak, hubby and I are in the room, staring off into space. We don't talk, unless it's functional. We are just sitting here, lost and lonely. Actually, getting on each other's nerves... So what the hell am I actually going to be missing out on?

Ugh. I just need to be slapped. I can see it, I know it, but when it comes to doing something about it... UGH!

Quite possibly the most difficult challenge I face is MYSELF. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thoreau

Serious ass whooping coming up. Let me walk out by the pond and collect my thoughts first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Thoreau said:


> Serious ass whooping coming up. Let me walk out by the pond and collect my thoughts first.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pond. Thoreau. 

I know. I need it. I deserve it.

I'm so stressed out anymore I can hardly stand it. I've lost 12 POUNDS in the last two weeks. From STRESS. :/

I'm waiting for the beatdown... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> :iagree:
> 
> If being separated from your daughter isn't going to be that push you need to leave him what will be?
> 
> Chances are your mom and sister are keeping her to try and get you to do what you need to do to make a better life for you and your daughter, by leaving him.


I already know that's what they're doing... It's working. I am sick with worry and stress all the time. I miss her like crazy and I'm so scared she's going to forget who I am!!! I don't want to be apart from her anymore! :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

Stop letting life wash over you.

Start living.


----------



## that_girl

Then go to your child! Stop making excuses. Stop whining...That's your kid. If you don't want her to forget you, then don't let her forget you.


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> I already know that's what they're doing... It's working. I am sick with worry and stress all the time. I miss her like crazy and I'm so scared she's going to forget who I am!!! I don't want to be apart from her anymore! :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then as TG said, go. Pack up some of your stuff and leave, right now, or have one of them come pick you up. My children are in a different state and I've seen them twice in the past 4 years. Stop making excuses, stop sitting there worrying and being stressed out. If it's that upsetting to you, get up, get some sh!t together and GO TO YOUR DAUGHTER.

He obviously doesn't care one way or the other if he sees her or not so why let him and his bad attitude keep you from her? I'm sorry if this comes off as mean but right now it seems like you are choosing HIM over your child. Chances are your family is seeing it the same way.


----------



## YinPrincess

that_girl said:


> And if he was drunk when supposedly in charge of a baby, that's neglect. If i was your mom, I'd take the baby too.
> 
> Come on, woman!


Look, it's not like I KNEW that's what was going to happen! I was sick, doped up on meds and I was asleep. I thought I could trust him... Now I know better.

If I knew, if I had any idea that he would have done something like that... If I even knew he had a g*d damn bottle of vodka, I would NOT have left the baby in his care, sick or not!

I should have called the police. I serious wondered if I should after he threw vomit at me... But like we need more drama... 

I didn't call the police, but I did call my mom and told her everything. That's when she came to get the baby.

If I had any idea that this is how things would have ended up... Well, I don't know what I could have done differently. I was puking my damn guts out.

This whole thing has just got me totally off-guard and now I'm feeling defensive as well as sh*tty and incompetent. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> I'm sorry if this comes off as mean but right now it seems like you are choosing HIM over your child.


You know, when they took her I didn't know they weren't going to bring her back!

I would never choose him over my daughter. No f*ckin' way. He's not worth it. It is not like I am intentionally ducking out of my responsibilities as a parent. They've been playing games with me, hiding their motives and whatnot when they could have just said, "We are NOT bringing her back. If you want to see her then you need to come get her."

It's not like I don't text them every single day, calling and pestering them for a date, a time, when I can see her, when can she come back, or what the hell is going on?!?

I beg my husband to go get our daughter. I want to see her at least, I want to know what's going on. He says, "No, they took her, so they can bring her back!"

He is stubborn and doesn't care! I know I'm not exactly a victim but I didn't see what was going on until I met with them last night. It finally clicked for some reason... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> You know, when they took her I didn't know they weren't going to bring her back!
> 
> I would never choose him over my daughter. No f*ckin' way. He's not worth it. It is not like I am intentionally ducking out of my responsibilities as a parent. They've been playing games with me, hiding their motives and whatnot when they could have just said, "We are NOT bringing her back. If you want to see her then you need to come get her."
> 
> It's not like I don't text them every single day, calling and pestering them for a date, a time, when I can see her, when can she come back, or what the hell is going on?!?
> 
> I beg my husband to go get our daughter. I want to see her at least, I want to know what's going on. He says, "No, they took her, so they can bring her back!"
> 
> He is stubborn and doesn't care! I know I'm not exactly a victim but I didn't see what was going on until I met with them last night. It finally clicked for some reason...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Calm yourself first and for most, neither I NOR TG are saying you planned this out or you knew it was going to happen this way. 

All we're saying is what it looks like from the outside, I have no doubt that you love and miss her and text/call daily to check up on her, no one is saying you don't, that you're a bad mother, or that you don't love your child.

He is stubborn and doesn't care, so why are you still there? I'm sure if you called your mom or sister and said you're going to pack some stuff can someone come pick you up, they would in a heartbeat. They want you to be with your daughter as much as you want to be with her but they don't want her in that environment and I can't blame them for that, neither can you as you've said.

I know you wouldn't chose him over her but you have to stop, and look at this objectively for a minute, it seems like that's what you're doing. Chances are your mother and sister are seeing it the same way, hell douchecanoe is probably seeing it the same way as well. They have her and you know that, they've told you to stay the night and what have you but you don't, you leave her there and go back to him. Can you see how that looks to people who aren't you?

AGAIN I'm not saying you're ducking your responsibilities or don't care, I'm just saying that your actions right now are speaking louder than your words.

With as stuck on himself as your husband is do you really think he hasn't thought "She's here with me instead of our daughter so she's choosing me over her"?


----------



## Hellioness

Nothing that anyone is saying here is a personal attack on you hun, please remember that. I know this is a sensitive subject, I get a lot of criticism for my situation with my children, but just remember we aren't attacking you.


----------



## that_girl

I, for one, put NO BLAME on you, Yin. Why do you think that? HE was neglecting your child. HE is a grown man...a FATHER....who, knowing you were incapacitated, decided to drink a 5th of alcohol while in charge of his infant daughter.

That's on HIM. Not you.

My thing is if you want your child-- GO TO HER....and stop choosing this crap over her. You can do it. YOU CAN. You are strong and capable of going to your child and leaving him behind.


----------



## YinPrincess

> Calm yourself first and for most, neither I NOR TG are saying you planned this out or you knew it was going to happen this way.


I know, I am sorry. I feel very defensive. The whole incident took me aback. The whole time my mom and sis have been telling me everyday that they will bring her back and making excuses, and I just keep waiting and waiting. I've taken hubby's car at night after he's passed out a few times to drive down there and see her and talk to them. He was pissed the last time he caught me. All he could do was b*tch about the gas money and hide the car keys. That's all beside the point. I'm just upset and feel put on the spot. I feel a little attacked to be honest, but I know you both have loving intentions. You know, I feel kind of upset with my family, too. It feels like they just kidnapped her - but I know they have loving intentions, as well. Ugh I'm shaking so bad I can hardly type. :/ 



> He is stubborn and doesn't care, so why are you still there?


Honestly because thought they were bringing her BACK. Last night they kind of "explained" in a way that it finally "clicked" in my head. I may be dumb, naïve, whatever. But I didn't "get it" until last night... I believed everything they told me beforehand.



> I'm sure if you called your mom or sister and said you're going to pack some stuff can someone come pick you up, they would in a heartbeat.


I am sure they would! I just didn't know that that is what they wanted. You know, I'm not very good at taking hints very well... But I am gathering some things, and I've texted my sister. She's giving the girls baths right now... (And I'm missing out)! She said she would get back to me in a little while.



> They have her and you know that, they've told you to stay the night and what have you but you don't, you leave her there and go back to him. Can you see how that looks to people who aren't you?


The only reason I haven't stayed the night is because I didn't want hubby to know I took the car without his permission... Not that it matters now, he already busted me once. I guess I can see how it might look... And it makes me mad at myself for not picking up on it sooner. Sometimes I think I'm really f*cking stupid. 



> With as stuck on himself as your husband is do you really think he hasn't thought "She's here with me instead of our daughter so she's choosing me over her"?


You're really giving him more credit than he deserves. :lol: I really don't think he even gives a rat's ass, to be honest. He'd be happy if I left.  He says he cares, but I don't see any evidence of it!!

And... I've been looking at him lately... Wondering why he isn't saying anything, why isn't he upset, why??? And it makes me kind of sad that this THIS is her father. And THIS is what I married. What a mistake... How could I be with someone who cares so little about his own flesh and blood?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

SO then leave.


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> Nothing that anyone is saying here is a personal attack on you hun, please remember that. I know this is a sensitive subject, I get a lot of criticism for my situation with my children, but just remember we aren't attacking you.


I feel so stupid. I didn't get the hints. I married a jackass. And no one has to attack me because I beat myself up every single day wondering how/why I got into all this mess. I'm not a person who has regrets... I believe even bad experiences are opportunities for positive growth and betterment.

But this man. He has me regretting everything. I'm feeling so bitter and spiteful. Pissed at myself for getting married and moving out to begin with. Regretting all the stupid sh*t that's gone on... But I can't blame it all on him.

I didn't see the red flags and I should have.

I thought when I got married, it was going to be forever. Because he wasn't my ex I stupidly thought there was nothing he could do that was worse or unresolvable. I was so wrong. At my age you'd think I would have been more careful about such major decisions...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

Okay that bull you shouldn't have to sneak around to use a car. If you need me to I can come pick you up and drop you at your sisters Tuesday when I'm off work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

that_girl said:


> SO then leave.


Working on it as we type.

Worst part is, I know as soon as I leave I am going to be absolutely overwhelmed with the enormity and finality of it all. I am weak. I will want my bed. My dogs. A quiet house. I am not going to cope with it very well. I already know this.

I am sure that seeing my daughter smiling and playing (and almost walking!) Will help me get over it.

But the "what if's" are going to be there. :wtf: They were never there before. I've always been so sure of what I wanted... It never really hurt... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> Okay that bull you shouldn't have to sneak around to use a car. If you need me to I can come pick you up and drop you at your sisters Tuesday when I'm off work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, it is HIS car, after all. He bought it and it was ME that wrecked the Toyota. He just has to be in control, that's all. I'm the same way...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Hell, you got the Jeep fixed? You know I'm gonna be right down the street from you, right? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

It's not HIS car. You are married.


----------



## Thoreau

Hfh. Dont make me come there and kick your ass. Im only about 2 hours away. Wtf woman? Lets see. Be with your baby or be a target for vomit soaked towels. Really?. Again. You are the dumbest smart chick I know. 

As josepe would say....listen to the sisterhood. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> Hell, you got the Jeep fixed? You know I'm gonna be right down the street from you, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope Jeep isn't fixed yet, it needs a new engine, but I have the Cavalier so I've got a running car.

Also no, it's not HIS car, you guys are married, all of our cars are in the hubby's name but they're not HIS cars, I can use it whenever I damned well please, he'll say their HIS cars when he's being a pain in the butt and giving me a hard time but it's not really HIS.


----------



## YinPrincess

that_girl said:


> It's not HIS car. You are married.


Try telling him that. There is nothing that is "ours" except the baby. Everything else is "his" or "mine".

I never got that... I thought we got married to have a life together as "one", or I believed... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> Try telling him that. There is nothing that is "ours" except the baby. Everything else is "his" or "mine".
> 
> I never got that... I thought we got married to have a life together as "one", or I believed... :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Give me his phone number, I'll tell him that, you know I will. Don't tempt me woman!


----------



## that_girl

Legally they are "OURS".

He can say whatever he wants. You know he's not all there anyway.


----------



## Thoreau

Apparently the baby is neither of yours right now. Wtf yin. Wait until hes passed out drunk again then take the car and be with the baby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Thoreau said:


> Hfh. Dont make me come there and kick your ass. Im only about 2 hours away. Wtf woman? Lets see. Be with your baby or be a target for vomit soaked towels. Really?. Again. You are the dumbest smart chick I know.
> 
> As josepe would say....listen to the sisterhood. Lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's it? You goin' soft on me?

Yes... Listening to the Sisterhood. 

Feeling uncertain and defeated...

I supposed I'll get over it, but I'll never understand it. I think that's what bothers me the most...  
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> Nope Jeep isn't fixed yet, it needs a new engine, but I have the Cavalier so I've got a running car.
> 
> Also no, it's not HIS car, you guys are married, all of our cars are in the hubby's name but they're not HIS cars, I can use it whenever I damned well please, he'll say their HIS cars when he's being a pain in the butt and giving me a hard time but it's not really HIS.


Well, I hope you and Slim are prepared to see my face every day and listen to me bawl my eyes out. Or, you at least. :lol:

It's been too long since we've done anything together. I'll let you play with my baby! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thoreau

YinPrincess said:


> That's it? You goin' soft on me?
> 
> Yes... Listening to the Sisterhood.
> 
> Feeling uncertain and defeated...
> 
> I supposed I'll get over it, but I'll never understand it. I think that's what bothers me the most...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh no....I have a lot more. Not going soft at all but not wanting to be too harsh when you seem weak and vulnerable. Let me know when you need the hardness and I will come at you like a spider monkey on viagra.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Thoreau said:


> Oh no....I have a lot more. Not going soft at all but not wanting to be too harsh when you seem weak and vulnerable. Let me know when you need the hardness and I will come at you like a spider monkey on viagra.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You DO have a heart!  You got a deal, Thoreau. I will be weak and need it in a few days, I am sure... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> Give me his phone number, I'll tell him that, you know I will. Don't tempt me woman!


Just caught this... LoL! Oh I know you'll tell him where to stuff it... But he won't care. He can't. He's too damn numb and robotic. :/

::sigh:: Knots in my stomach. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hopefull363

Your sister and mother are forcing you to make a decision you should have made already. Don't even wait for him to pass out. When he goes to the bathroom get the keys and go. Let him find his own way to get the car back. You've analyzed everything too much. It's now time for action. You can do it. If not for yourself then for your daughter.


----------



## deejov

YinPrincess said:


> You really hit something with me here... (I know this is *not* the point you were trying to make, but I feel a need to discuss it a little).
> 
> Any time that I mention that I want or need my husband's love, affection and approval, his response is consistently, "You shouldn't be so insecure." "It's not my job to "fix" you!" "Your feelings are not my problem." "Why are you so needy?" "Yeah, you're feeling soooo ripped off!" "All you do is find ways to be deprived by me!" "You're soooo deprived, guess I'm the bad guy." "If you don't like it then why don't you leave?!" oh, and my favorite, "Grow up!"There is some merit in this. But not in how you take it personally, and allow it to reflect on you as a human being
> 
> What he neglects to realize, (and again, my co-dependent self has accepted that this will not ever change unless and until HE wants it to), is that almost all women, all people, for that matter, need that special kind of love, affection and attention that we just *can't* give ourselves or get from friends or family! It IS a "need" for validation, and IMO, the only time it's really not attention-wh0ring, is when we seek to be approved of, reassured and accepted by our *spouse*. Big difference from just randomly fishing for compliments from whomever will hand them out or repeating positive affirmations to ourselves. It does seem NECESSARY. I am not thriving without it. I DO feel deprived of a very significant aspect of marriage.You are deprived because you don't love yourself. The unbalance has been there for a long time. It's fixable.
> 
> I KNOW that I am Co-Dependent. Yes, I've known for a long, long time... But knowing isn't enough. Even knowing the things that must be done to correct it does not mean it will be corrected.
> 
> I've done a lot of work on myself, but I still have so much to do and so far to grow... It can be quite overwhelming to actually gather all of my faults and flaws and actively correct them, one by one. And I STILL won't be perfect when I'm done, if I ever even reach that point... (Doubt it).You ARE perfect. Just as you are. Because you cannot change the past. You are unique from everyone else in the world. The concept of "perfect" is what most people fight and strive for all their lives. What's perfect? According to who? Your husband? He's living his own life, with his own experiences, and he's unique from you and everyone else. Who are YOU? Be perfect for you. For someone who is "co-dependent" or has other lables, perfect means something different from someonw who has never lived your life. Here comes the 2 x 4. STOP putting yourself down. It's keeping you from being happy. Give yourself credit for everything you've done. If you do just ONE thing in your life, be NICE to yourself. As a rule. Always.
> 
> *"Co-dependency, by definition, means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself"*
> 
> This is me. I guess I was raised that way... Saw my mom put everything, and I mean EVERYTHING before her own needs... I should have learned from her example, but instead I repeat it. It didn't serve her. My dad walked all over her, she never complained. He cheated numerous times... Then finally left and married one of his homewreckers. I am terrified at the thought of that happening to me!!
> 
> I think that culture in general, favors (favored?) a selfless and giving person, usually the woman. Expected to serve and keep her mouth shut. Cater, care and never complain or behave "selfishly". It might be Old-Fashioned, but that was my example!Guess what? Society is WRONG. It's all lies. Yes, there are rules for life. To keep humans from being in chaos. But... when we grow up, as adults, most of us assume those rules as our identity. It's all a lie. It is NOT who you are, as a person, woman, wife, mother. Experiences in life shape who you are, but YOU are still there. Iinside.Intact. Nothing wrong with you. The real you. You just have to toss out the billion OPINIONS that others have piled on you and allow YOU to come out
> 
> Of course, Co-Dependents are the extreme example of this... Some being passive-aggressive, resentful and manipulative. No one can fix them, (their attitudes and perspectives) except THEMSELVES, so I can understand that my husband thinks it is futile to "fix" me, by "giving in" to my requests, (or "demands" as he likes to call them). He seems to think that I want him to "fix" me, and that is not the case at ALL. I want him to show love and acceptance towards me, flawed as I am. No more, no less.
> 
> He, on the other hand, is on the other end of the spectrum, at times appearing overly self-absorbed and uninterested in others. He is aloof, independent and seemingly incapable of providing ANY *sincere* love and affection. (Not true, but it is rare). He can be defensive, suspicious and feel intruded upon and burdened by my requests. He often does what he can to keep me at a distance - shutting me down and alievating himself of any type of intimacy. (Because that's SCARY)!
> 
> It has been a struggle for balance because we've both been telling the other what they "should" be. We've both been wrong and we've both been self-serving at times.
> 
> Being a co-dependent, I have a hard time un-tangling myself and seeing myself as separate. Unfortunately, separating is exactly the thing I need to do, to work on this particular facet of my self-identity. I'm not going to lie - I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE. It will HURT. It will be UNCOMFORTABLE. I don't want to be uncomfortable!
> 
> BUT! I don't want to continue to feel rejected by a man, equally imperfect as I am. I don't want to address those perspectives of defeat and failure. So I live in a sort of Cognitive Dissonance.
> 
> Do I believe staying is doing me any good at all? Can't say that I do. I'm being enabled and I am enabling.
> 
> How can I KNOW this, and NOT make a move? I even know what the move IS! So why can't I just do it? I don't have the answers to my own questions. All I know is, I feel paralyzed. Maybe I'm afraid of change... Who knows.The opinions of others are what you know. You don't know how to listen to your soul. But you can learn. If you believe in yourself. Nobody can do that for you. So... do you want to make excuses for another twenty years, or do you want to be happy? It's your choice. It always is. Free will.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Well, I'm leaving tomorrow. I can't guarantee it will be permanent, but it sure feels that way. This past few weeks have been hell. He's thrown vomit on me, refused to be by my side while I was in the hospital, ruined my birthday, and it's just awful and draining to be around him anymore. He is so negative, in every single interaction, no matter my behavior... He is just mean and condescending.

Even though I want to leave, I am trying my best to get along with him... He came on to me earlier today. I figured, "Why not?" I thought maybe it would reduce the tension, in the very least. Nope. We CAN'T EVEN HAVE SEX without negativity!!!!

We had just started when he moved or did something that hurt. I calmly, quietly asked him to stop what he was doing and I told him it hurt. His reaction? He ROLLED his eyes!!! He showed so much contempt and sighed so loudly... It was really hard for me to be calm, but I was. This is how our interaction went...

I ask why he acts as though he doesn't care about my comfort... 

He says "You're just complaining about everything!'

I calmly say, "Everything? I just asked you to stop what you're doing because it hurts me. That is NOT a complaint." 

He rolls his eyes again and says "Do you just want to stop?!"

I said, "I want you to care about my comfort instead of just worrying about what you want."

He said, "Well, you're just barking orders at me and analyzing everything!"

I said, "Asking you to stop doing something is "barking orders?"

He said, "That's what it felt like."

I said "How can it feel like I am 'barking orders' by simply telling you to stop what you're doing because it hurts?! I asked calmly."

He said, "Just stop dictating everything."

I said, "How am I dictating everything?!"

He says, (mocking) "Don't do this, don't do that, look at me, blah blah blah."

I said, "Asking for what I like is not "dictating everything". I should be allowed to communicate and want to connect with you. This isn't about getting off, it's an activity we both should have a say-so in."

He said, "Well, you don't let me express myself, I want to be involved too."

I said, "You expressed contempt and disdain because I told you something hurt me, and because I wanted to connect with you. I felt like you were criticizing me and exaggerating what really happened. When did you express something you wanted?"

He said, "I'm just gonna go take a shower."

I said, "You don't want to resolve this and continue?"

He says, "No" and storms off.

:wtf:

I don't understand why he's like this ALL of the time! I guess I shouldn't care anymore because my bags are packed and I am ready to go. He doesn't know that I'm leaving tomorrow.

I just don't know what else to do. I have tried EVERYTHING while still trying to maintain my sanity and assert my boundaries.

I know, I should have refused his advances, but the result would have been the same. He is a miserable, hateful, spiteful, stubborn and selfish man!!! 

I think back to how hw treated me in the beginning of our relationship and I want to cry. He was so GOOD to me! I can hardly believe this is the same person! 

And yet, despite this, I know as soon as I get to my sister's house I am going to want to go home. Not to him, but just to be someplace familiar.

I still have no idea what's going to happen with my dogs... I hate leaving them behind because I don't know what he's capable of... 

Anyways, I'm in victim mode. Don't shoot me. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

stop having sex with this man.


----------



## Dollystanford

Yin - please just leave. Stop thinking about leaving and do it. Go and be with your baby. For your sanity (and mine  ) please do it.


----------



## YinPrincess

that_girl said:


> stop having sex with this man.


Well, he apparently doesn't want sex with me, either, so I think that's decided... LoL!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl

YOU have to decide to be done.

He disrespects you in and out of the bed, and you still want to allow him access to your body? Srsly. No.


----------



## YinPrincess

Dollystanford said:


> Yin - please just leave. Stop thinking about leaving and do it. Go and be with your baby. For your sanity (and mine  ) please do it.


At this very moment I have the car keys in my pocket and he wants them back. I am leaving as soon as he goes to the bathroom or something. I do not want to get into a scuffle with him because I have to exit down the stairs.

It would be a damn shame if one of us fell down and got hurt... :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

that_girl said:


> YOU have to decide to be done.
> 
> He disrespects you in and out of the bed, and you still want to allow him access to your body? Srsly. No.


I don't know if I'm ever really "done". I just didn't want static for refusing him... He becomes such an ass-hole... I thought that maybe it would make being in the same house a little easier. WRONG. LoL!!

Guess it's solo from here on out. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

Put the keys in the ignition, drive away and never look back. 

and NO! its not solo...you got TAM.


----------



## YinPrincess

Like I said... He knows I have the keys and he's watching me like a hawk. He is mad and he wants his car keys back. I have no doubt in my mind that he will grab me if I try to leave in front of him. I don't want an altercation, I just want to be alone. Ugh.

And solo - I was referring to sex. LMAO!!!  
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

does the police department in your area have a text line?? My city has a few text lines for the police so you can report things or get help. A boy in blue at the door will make him think twice.

oh!! that kinda solo....yeah I'm well familiar with han solo...take care of your wookie...AH AH!


----------



## deejov

How great would it feel to stand up to him, tell him you need some space, and you are going to your sister's? He's gonna know where you are, anyways.


----------



## YinPrincess

Not that I'm aware of. Besides, I don't think it's neccessary to involve them when it's just a matter of time before he goes downstairs to use the bathroom or something, lol!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

or something?? I guess he knows Solo as well huh?


----------



## YinPrincess

deejov said:


> How great would it feel to stand up to him, tell him you need some space, and you are going to your sister's? He's gonna know where you are, anyways.


Yeah, it'd be flippin' awesome, but I don't want him coming after me or something. Or calling the police and getting me in trouble because I'm "stealing" his car. Ugh.

Better just to sneak away without the drama. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

geek down said:


> or something?? I guess he knows Solo as well huh?


Starting to think something's wrong with me because he likes solo so much. 

I know, it's him. Not me. But tell that to anyone on this board being with a spouse that doesn't put out. Doesn't really make a difference in the end. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

Yin... am I gonna have to take a road trip over there? I will ya know....


----------



## Gaia

YinPrincess said:


> Starting to think something's wrong with me because he likes solo so much.
> 
> I know, it's him. Not me. But tell that to anyone on this board being with a spouse that doesn't put out. Doesn't really make a difference in the end.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Darling... wasn't it already established that it's because he is emotionally and probably physically invested in something... er I mean... someone else?


----------



## geek down

YinPrincess said:


> . But tell that to anyone on this board being with a spouse that doesn't put out. Doesn't really make a difference in the end.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know that feeling very well....Like you told me tonight..Its HIS loss..

Its not you though, and you know that deep down..You know you're not the person he is making you feel like....

@Gaia...You get that laptop?


----------



## YinPrincess

Yeah... His hand. I know he probably thinks about her, too. Talk about spirit-crushing... :/

And yeah... Can't wait til you get here!!! LoL!!! I think it'll be a lot of fun!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## deejov

YinPrincess said:


> Yeah, it'd be flippin' awesome, but I don't want him coming after me or something. Or calling the police and getting me in trouble because I'm "stealing" his car. Ugh.
> 
> Better just to sneak away without the drama. :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Um, won't he do that when you sneak out and he doesn't have his car? Ask him to drive you over there. How is he going to get to work? Are you planning to just keep the car?

Anyways, good luck, however you do it.


----------



## Gaia

geek down said:


> I know that feeling very well....Like you told me tonight..Its HIS loss..
> 
> Its not you though, and you know that deep down..You know you're not the person he is making you feel like....
> 
> @Gaia...You get that laptop?


The one you were going to send or a new one in general? 




Oh and I totally agree with geeks post yin.


----------



## geek down

YinPrincess said:


> And yeah... Can't wait til you get here!!! LoL!!! I think it'll be a lot of fun!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, its a long drive from MA, but ok!!


----------



## geek down

Gaia said:


> The one you were going to send or a new one in general?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and I totally agree with geeks post yin.


I left it with my old landlord when I left..He said he would pop it in the mail....Let me guess...it never made it huh?


----------



## Gaia

Wait wait wait wait wait.... Yin... wasn't that originally YOUR CAR?!?


----------



## Gaia

geek down said:


> I left it with my old landlord when I left..He said he would pop it in the mail....Let me guess...it never made it huh?


Nope.. never got a computer. Not via mail anyway. I did buy a new one from the store with income tax though.  It's a dell.... silver colored. Probably not as good as the one you were gonna send though. :/


----------



## YinPrincess

geek down said:


> I know that feeling very well....Like you told me tonight..Its HIS loss..
> 
> Its not you though, and you know that deep down..You know you're not the person he is making you feel like....
> 
> @Gaia...You get that laptop?


Starting to wonder... :/ 

Anyways, I'm gonna leave tomorrow for sure, if not tonight. And it's breaking my heart because it really wouldn't take much for me to stay... He must want to be rid of me that much.

And that makes me think, "why?" Why am I so damn bad/awful/disposable to him? 

It's so stupid to think, but I just keep wondering... "What the eff did I ever do to him to make him hate me so much?"

And yeah, I think that because he's always telling me everything is somehow MY fault. Every effing thing!!! It's brainwashing. 

I've been trying to be nice and even when I'm nice I'm doing it wrong because he tells me that I'm only being nice because I want something!

Uhhh... Maybe kindness in return?

I know, I shouldn't take his words to heart. Shouldn't take the things he does personally. It's HIS problem, not mine.

But I'm hurting. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

Gaia said:


> Nope.. never got a computer. Not via mail anyway. I did buy a new one from the store with income tax though.  It's a dell.... silver colored. Probably not as good as the one you were gonna send though. :/


I had a dell from 2002..so its probably MUCH better...

I love Dell...So cheap..so easy to repair...so many parts for them...



YinPrincess said:


> But I'm hurting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


awww....:hug:


----------



## Gaia

Yin... you hurt because you care. When you stop caring... he won't have that power over you anymore.


----------



## YinPrincess

deejov said:


> Um, won't he do that when you sneak out and he doesn't have his car? Ask him to drive you over there. How is he going to get to work? Are you planning to just keep the car?
> 
> Anyways, good luck, however you do it.


Nah, he won't call once I'm gone. He's more likely to call with me here so he can have "witnesses" (over the phone) that I'm crazy and trying to steal the car. So good at the victim bullsh*t...  

I would have him drive me, but he won't. Secondarily he cannot drive at night and it's already getting dark over here... Plan to come back in the morning to take him to work. No, not planning on keeping it. I didn't pay for it and I was driving when the Toyota got totalled. So I'm forever reminded how it was my fault and how I'm the reason he had to buy the Subaru...

Looks like he's nodding off. Just might get my chance to go here in a min. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

Tip toe outta there like a drunk waking up in a strangers bed in the morning...Grab those shoes and go!!!


----------



## YinPrincess

Gaia said:


> Yin... you hurt because you care. When you stop caring... he won't have that power over you anymore.


That's the really irritating thing. I still care even though he treats me like poop. Wtf is wrong with ME? LoL! See, not every thing is him... I guess if I'm like that I pretty much deserve my misery.

I guess maybe it's my ego. I know he hates me. I know he doesn't want to be with me anymore. I know he is just pushing me away, but I don't know WHY. And my stupid brain just won't give up looking/searching for a reason... Something to make sense of it. :/

And I know he's gonna be happy when he comes home tomorrow and I'm not here. Just thinking of it makes me so sad. If I'm such a good person like everyone says, then why isn't he happy to have me in his life? 

I know he doesn't deserve my time. I know I want a better life and it won't happen with him. I can rationalize that. But the emotional stuff is killing me.

If there was one small benefit to all this stress, I tried on a pair of jeans today that I haven't worn in two years... And they FIT!!! (Ugh. Just remembered. That's why he wanted to get frisky earlier...) 

I can't even remember the last time I ate... And I have absolutely no appetite whatsoever.. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

Its because you want to fix it..You want to fix the problems, hoping he will come around..Yin..its just not going to happen..

He's in the wrong for not treating you right...Everytime you feel like sh!t and want to go back or call him...Remember the smell of drunk vomit in your face...I can't BELIEVE he did that...


----------



## YinPrincess

geek down said:


> Tip toe outta there like a drunk waking up in a strangers bed in the morning...Grab those shoes and go!!!


Soon enough... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

geek down said:


> Its because you want to fix it..You want to fix the problems, hoping he will come around..Yin..its just not going to happen..
> 
> He's in the wrong for not treating you right...Everytime you feel like sh!t and want to go back or call him...Remember the smell of drunk vomit in your face...I can't BELIEVE he did that...


I know it's not going to change. That's what hurts the most. I'm not asking him to raid Fort Knox... Just respect me and treat me kindly. It seems like something that simple and basic... That he can do for total STRANGERS, he can't - WON'T do for me! So I guess I suck!

Sorry for the pity party. Just knowing it's the last night I'm going to be home... The last night I'll see him (at least for a looooong time). Last night with my dogs... Ugh. That probably hurts the most is that I have to leave them behind. They're old and they'll never understand. God forbid something happens to them... I'll just die. :'(

It's a really depressing night.  I've heard nothing but total silence for the past few hours... Feels like a standoff. :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

Trenton said:


> Also, and I know Geek and you are going to want to punch me for saying this (and I could be totally wrong) but I tend to pay attention and I think Geek has a wee thing for you as I've stated before. I'm not sure whether he is the right person to direct you to where you should be headed and may be more likely to confuse things. Granted, obviously there are things I'm missing just didn't want to not put it out there.


no offense taken..


----------



## YinPrincess

Trenton said:


> Yin, you're young and conflicted. It sounds like your husband is conflicted too. Living in a relationship where there is no trust is super hard and the only way trust is there after it's been lost is if it is tested and passes and behaviors change that nurture trust rather than destroy it.
> 
> I'm unsure why you went from confused about whether your feelings were legit to walking out right now? I know it's been a rough road for you but I would advise you to leave in a different manner. Plan it out, learn to cope with your intense feelings and find the inner strength to recognize that it doesn't matter why he is acting the way he is, it's simply not good enough for you.
> 
> If you walk out with such intensity and you're tossing ideas like him accusing you of stealing the car in your head...something is off.
> 
> I can tell you that when my husband and I were younger we went through similar situations on both sides back and forth because we didn't know what we wanted, we both felt confused and we often took it out on one another.


I'm conflicted because I know that it CAN be good if we both tried. I don't think he's conflicted at all. He hates my guts. Why? Why? Why? Why?

Because I want him to be effing nice to me. Because I want him to speak to me with respect. Really? It's THAT hard for him? It's like his eyes go vacant. There is nothing there. I swear he's as cold as ice... And I don't understand what I did to bring it on. I had my problems, too, early on. And I've worked HARD (with my brain I think it's like TWICE the work needed, lol)! I became a better person because I wanted to be. I didn't want to be at the mercy of my anxiety and my "bad" ways of coping... And I thought I was doing so well! It feels like I'm in for a major regression. I can feel it, and I'm fighting it hard. 

As for going back and forth. Well, pretty much everyone here has told me I don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of making this relationship work. I can stay all I want, but it won't make him love me/like me/respect me. 

I miss my daughter and I'm tired of waking up every day and wishing I weren't alive. I just want this all to be done and over with, I'm tired of drawing it out and suffering more as a result. :/ I've been through so much in my life and I can't believe THIS is the thing that really hurts me! Of all things...

How did you and your husband get over this? Did one of you leave?

'Cause I'm pretty much convinced that once I walk out the door it's permanent.

Starting over. AGAIN. :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

Yin.... no one can fix this for you. Only you can make this better. Only you can change your situation. All we can do is offer advice.


----------



## YinPrincess

Trenton said:


> If you walk out with such intensity and you're tossing ideas like him accusing you of stealing the car in your head...something is off..


I'm not quite sure what you mean by "something is off"...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Gaia said:


> Yin.... no one can fix this for you. Only you can make this better. Only you can change your situation. All we can do is offer advice.


I don't want anyone to fix it for me. I know it's up to me to decide I deserve better. What is hard for me to make myself "believe" is that it will be better staying with my sis. I know it won't be. Her house is a living hell for someone like me...

I'm trying to take the advice, even though I'm just venting right now. I feel very alone and just wishing I could open my eyes and say, 

"Well that dream sucked."

It doesn't matter. Nothing will ever help him see just how mistaken and downright MEAN he is. Because he thinks he's Mr. Perfect and I'm batshyt crazy.

It's the feelings of rejection. I've never been able to handle them well, and I have a loooong history of both "perceived" and actual rejection. I remember when we first started dating... I told him that I wasn't sure about pursuing a relationship at the time. And he looked at me and he said, "You are good for me, and I am good for you. We are a force for GOOD in each others' lives." So WTF happened. Why am I not good anymore and why is he not good anymore??? 

I know it's life and everyone goes through this. Now it's my turn. I guess now I get a taste of my own medicine... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Trenton thank you so much for your inspiring words. I have been feeling sorry for myself and letting it exacerbate into a deep, deep depression...

I am not holding out any hope that my husband will change any time soon. The abuse he inflicts is primarily verbal and covert psychological abuse. I've been pretty good about maintaining my composure in front of him... Not crying, yelling, running away like I used to. When he says something I find to be offense/condescending I just calmly say that I will not respond to his negativity. I spend too much time trying to ask him to respond from his heart, speak with compassion and look at me with love... He is just too numb and too resentful to care.

Even if he does come around, I am not confident that I will. Every time we are separated for more than a day or two I have a REALLY hard time warming up to him. I don't know why... Even if I miss him like crazy, I just feel so suspicious of what he might have done while we were separated, that I don't feel trusting or close. I don't know why. :/

I know I have a choice in how I feel and how I react... I have a lot difficulty regulating my emotions (Sensory Processing Disorder) and while I am NOT prone to depression, it is hitting me with a 10 ton truck right now. I am feeling sorry for myself, depreciating myself, thinking terrible thoughts and feeling completely down and out.

I am going to look up and see the positive aspects of this situation... I'm going to be with my daughter now and I won't have to listen to a near-constant barrage of put-downs mixed intermittantly with the silent treatment. I am going to be able to see and interact with my family every day, and perhaps get out and do more things outside of the four walls. But I know that at night I'll be crying myself to sleep and thinking of him. Thinking of my dogs and hoping they are fed and warm. ::sigh:: 

This isn't anything I haven't done before, but it feels so different this time. I hope I can keep my mind busy and occupied and maybe those sad feelings will go away. 

I'm scared of the future. I'm unsure of my ability to support myself and my baby, maintain employment, cope with the busy environment at my sister's house. I'm scared of following through on divorce, but I have signed up for an educational class that explains the procedures. And even though it is way too early to even think about, I fear dating in the future... Or being alone forever. Maybe once I'm used to being alone again I really won't care about dating... 

Perhaps once I resume IC in April I'll be about to get back to work on myself and my coping skills. 

Thanks again, Trenton. I am glad you shared your experiences with me, I did find it to be of some comfort. I appreciate the reminder that yes, I can CHOOSE what feelings I want to acknowledge and that I have to take responsibility if depression becomes overwhelming. Thank you! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

Yin, just remember there are people here for you. We do care.


----------



## YinPrincess

Thanks, Gaia! I appreciate that! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

I don't want you to think your alone. Really, your not missy.


----------



## YinPrincess

It's comforting to know I can come here anytime and someone will always be here. (*ahem* Gaia) lol!!! 

RL is incredibly freaking lonely right now. He is passed out, snoring away and I am a million miles away... Part of me is tempted to snuggle up to him one last time and pretend everything's okay... The other part of me is like "WTF! He's a jerk! Why the hell do I want to be anywhere near him?"

It's just tough. I'm tempted to self-medicate also, but I haven't yet. I probably will at least want a few beers to get through tomorrow night... ::sigh::
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

lol Speaking of which... i left you a message on FB.


----------



## YinPrincess

You did? Damn my phone never notifies me of messages!! Ree Ree!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

Yes I did. And awaiting a response... lol.


----------



## YinPrincess

Whoops, sorry. Total Space Cadet tonight! BRB! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## memyselfandi

My hubby works with males and females. I'm sure he talks to all of them the same way.

I hardly expect him to come home from work and give me a run down on his every conversation.

That would just be ludacrist!!

Point is..I trust my hubby as you should trust yours. The bottom line is..if you don't..you really shouldn't be married.

Sorry...


----------



## YinPrincess

memyselfandi said:


> My hubby works with males and females. I'm sure he talks to all of them the same way.
> 
> I hardly expect him to come home from work and give me a run down on his every conversation.
> 
> That would just be ludacrist!!


I agree. I do not expect that of my husband. However, give the circumstances in my situation, I believe he intentionally omitted mentioning this girl... For YEARS. Apparently she knows all about me... And I know next to nothing about her...



> Point is..I trust my hubby as you should trust yours.


I did trust him... Before he had an EA... :/ 




> The bottom line is..if you don't..you really shouldn't be married.
> 
> Sorry...


No kidding... Working on that, thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

memyselfandi said:


> My hubby works with males and females. I'm sure he talks to all of them the same way.
> 
> I hardly expect him to come home from work and give me a run down on his every conversation.
> 
> That would just be ludacrist!!
> 
> Point is..I trust my hubby as you should trust yours. The bottom line is..if you don't..you really shouldn't be married.
> 
> Sorry...


Things aren't so black and white with others though. One spouse could cheat, be taken back by the betrayed but that trust that was once there... will always be broken. Imo just because there may be a lack of trust with some relationships doesn't necessarily mean one shouldn't be married. 

It's great that you can trust your spouse so freely but I disagree with you stating she should trust her's because you trust yours.


----------



## YinPrincess

::sigh::

Remember that feeling of trust... Before it was broken?? Such a wonderful, oblivious feeling... 

Memyselfandi - I sincerely hope you never have to discover what it feels like to have it shattered... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Sister texted me early this morning saying she was taking my daughter to doc because she had a runny nose and she was afraid she was getting sick... Didn't even bother to come pick me up first!!!  Daughter appears fine, just has the sniffles.

Hubby is definitely sensing something is up... He brought me home a beautiful bouquet of summer flowers! They are lovely, but I hate this rug-sweeping sh*t and told him so... He just thinks I'm ungrateful - which is NOT true! It's just that flowers don't change anything! 

He has IC tomorrow and I meet with my Med Manager as well, and it's at the same place, so we will go together. (His appointment is later in the afternoon after work and he won't be able to drive home in the dark after his appointment). So I did say I would take him. He says that he would like to give MC another shot... I absolutely refuse to see the same counselor, though. He has said that tomorrow he will ask about seeing another person while he's there for IC.

Last night I did end up going to a friend's house for a little bit just to get out for a while... While I was there, her neighbor came over to see her husband... And wouldn't stop talking to me! (I HAVE to admit, her neighbor is VERY attractive)! :blush:

By the time I got home, this guy, (we'll call him "Z") had gotten my number from my friend and had begun texting me. Pretty benign chit-chat, but I felt uncomfortable responding because I have not wrapped things up with my husband yet. Even though Z is tall, handsome and single... And has an obvious crush on me, I do not think that I want to complicate things any further. I need to get out and be with my daughter; she is where I am keeping my focus.

But - it was sooo nice to have someone actually take an interest in conversation, (and a little flirting)  Wishing I could have met him at a better point in my life...

I plan on having my sis get me tomorrow after appointments, or the next morning... I am 80% for sure that this IS what I want, as hard as it is. Needing lots of willpower... I don't want to be wooed by hubby into staying any longer than I have to. I need to become immune to his tactics...

That's the quick update... I will write more later...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

Do you want me to come pick you up on one of my days off?


----------



## YinPrincess

Yes. I think my sis honestly wants to come down, it's just the drive and life getting in the way... But I would love to see you! It's been forever and we need to catch up!!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

Trenton said:


> What does he think you're ungrateful for?
> 
> Does he understand that how he talks to you is not appropriate?
> 
> I wouldn't begin any new relationship, even a friendly one with a man you find attractive, until you're fully out of the relationship you're in.
> 
> I know how easy it is but honestly, I'm guessing you will repeat a pattern with that. You have to be alone and get OK with yourself before you're ready to enter a relationship again.
> 
> This is my experience talking. When we're vulnerable and feel unloved, unheard and unappreciated by the one we truly love...it's real easy to fall into the hands of someone we don't for an ego boost. Don't do it if at all possible. Just my recommend.
> 
> If you ever need to rant about what you're going through, and yeah, I've been there and gotten through it...don't hesitate to pm me.


Her situation is very similar to the situation between me and my first husband, as she knows since she's known me in RL for years. 

However I don't agree with you telling her to not even start a friendship with a man she finds attractive until she's finished the relationship with her H. My current husband and I were friends and he moved in with me shortly after I kicked out my first husband, we started a relationship not long after I had kicked out my abusive exH, before our divorce was even started.

I couldn't have asked for a better husband than the one I currently have.

So while your experience says that she shouldn't do that, and mine says that great things could come from it, she needs to trust herself and know what's best for her.


----------



## geek down

See Yin..There are guys out there that know how to treat you right!


----------



## YinPrincess

He thinks I am ungrateful because the flowers didn't "solve" our problems. Put a smile on my face, definitely. But solve the problems, no. 

He thinks I am ungrateful and unappreciative quite frequently... And I actually go out of my way to thank him in the mornings every so often, for supporting me financially and for being reliable/dependable in that dept. I DO appreciate all he does for me... But I'm not sure what he wants? A parade in his honor? Ok, I'm being sarcastic, but simply acknowledging and thanking him seems to be in vain... 

I don't know if he truly knows that the way he speaks to me is inappropriate. I point it out to him every single time he says something but he seems to think that I am being "over-bearing" "controlling" or "critical". I can see why he thinks that... But he doesn't consider that I might have a valid point. There are times, however, when he is CLEARLY trying to hurt me... So it's not obliviousness.

No worries on starting a new relationship. It's all just flattery and superficial playfulness. Realistically, the guy is not someone I'd ever date seriously, even if I were single. Too many differences in fundamental areas, I think... Just enjoying a little bit of attention. I know it could evolve into an EA, so I've been pretty clear to him that some things are not going to happen or even be discussed. He's accepting and understanding... He's a single father, himself. So he knows what I mean when I say I just want to focus on my daughter. Not gonna lie... He makes me want to find all kinds of excuses to go to my friend's house now, lol!!

Thank you, Trenton. I so appreciate the understanding and openness that you and the other posters have extended to me during such a tough a vulnerable time in my life. I know I am more than redundant and frustrating at times... But I really feel like I'm starting to come around. You all have been so patient, and it's something I am grateful for. The support and reassurance are helpful to me to feel like I am not making a mistake. It's still so difficult, though.

Thanks. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hopefull363

Yin if it's over then just tell your husband it's over. You are leaving and he should not get you flowers. And then just go. He's not going to change. So when you say you are 80% sure you are ready to leave does that mean you are 20% sure you want to stay with your husband the way he is?


----------



## Hellioness

Trenton said:


> I'd agree except that I don't believe she does trust herself. I think she is confused and when you're confused and still married, looking at someone as a possible friend/lover and starting any type of relationship with him is not healthy.


I don't see a problem with starting a friendship with someone simply because your relationship is a bit rocky. 

However it doesn't really matter because it's up to her on rather or not she decides to do that, just because we think she might be feeling a certain way doesn't mean she is. She stated early and in the most recent post that "I felt uncomfortable responding because I have not wrapped things up with my husband yet. Even though Z is tall, handsome and single... And has an obvious crush on me, I do not think that I want to complicate things any further. I need to get out and be with my daughter; she is where I am keeping my focus.". So I don't think there was even a possibility of her starting an affair, it's not like she was saying she was considering sleeping with him. She was just enjoying the conversation and again, I see nothing wrong with speaking with or starting a friendship with a person simply because their are some issues in the relationship. Nothing wrong with a platonic friendship IMO.


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> Her situation is very similar to the situation between me and my first husband, as she knows since she's known me in RL for years.
> 
> However I don't agree with you telling her to not even start a friendship with a man she finds attractive until she's finished the relationship with her H. My current husband and I were friends and he moved in with me shortly after I kicked out my first husband, we started a relationship not long after I had kicked out my abusive exH, before our divorce was even started.
> 
> I couldn't have asked for a better husband than the one I currently have.
> 
> So while your experience says that she shouldn't do that, and mine says that great things could come from it, she needs to trust herself and know what's best for her.


Not doubting that sometimes it does work... But I don't know with my emotional state that it would be the "right" thing to do... But there's no harm here, the way I see it. Even if I were single, I don't think I would date this guy... "Too" good-looking and he's a little younger than me... There are just a few things that eliminate him right off the bat. (Lots and lots of female friends and lots of exes, for instance). But, seeing that I may be becoming a single parent myself, it would help to have the perspective of someone who's already been doing it for years... Or am I just finding reasons to stay in contact with him? LoL! 

Hell, I envy your relationship! You have someone who absolutely accepts you as you are and adores you! I'm jealous, but happy for you!!  Hoping I'll have the same someday! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Trenton said:


> I'd agree except that I don't believe she does trust herself. I think she is confused and when you're confused and still married, looking at someone as a possible friend/lover and starting any type of relationship with him is not healthy.


I agree. I am very confused, but very guarded. I really don't know if I am ever going to really let myself get as attached or invested in anyone ever again. (Don't we all day that)? I see what Hell is saying, though. Could happen... But I doubt it... Actually I am kind of wondering why he is single... LoL!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

Trenton said:


> Even when most of her anger towards him in this thread revolves around him not being forthcoming about a supposed friendship he has with a girl at work that he says is platonic?


Even then, so long as she isn't sneaking around and keeping the friendship a secret from him, her anger revolves around him keeping it a secret, that isn't something one tends to do if it's *strictly platonic*. I'm not suggesting she do it behind his back, I'm saying that I think relationship problems are not a reason to keep from making new friends.

Now if she was thinking of becoming friends with someone, or even just communicating regularly with someone and keeping it hidden from her H, that would be an issue. There's no reason for hidden relationships in a marriage.

ETA: I think you and I are talking about two completely different situations here LOL


----------



## YinPrincess

Hopefull363 said:


> Yin if it's over then just tell your husband it's over. You are leaving and he should not get you flowers. And then just go. He's not going to change. So when you say you are 80% sure you are ready to leave does that mean you are 20% sure you want to stay with your husband the way he is?


I am not expecting him to change. I do not believe he will change. Yes, I could put up with it for the rest of my life, but I do not want my daughter growing up with dysfunctional, avoidant parents. I would like for her to learn open and honest communication... Not the defenses that my husband (and sometimes myself) display. I want her to be able to see a partnership, a stable example of how two people should speak and treat each other. Even if I have to leave my husband to accomplish this, I will.

I told my husband last night that I wasn't going to tolerate his hostility and coldness. My guess is that that is why he brought home flowers. He rarely says "I am sorry" but when he goofs up, this is one of the ways he shows it.

I appreciate it, but it doesn't stop the behavior that caused the unrest and discord in the first place...

When I say I am 80% sure that I want to leave, it is because I am 80% certain that he will not be changing the behaviors that are pushing me away. I allot 20% because nothing is ever certain... If he were to treat me with respect and love... Hell yeah would stay with him. But I don't see that happening, unfortunately...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

> So I don't think there was even a possibility of her starting an affair, it's not like she was saying she was considering sleeping with him. She was just enjoying the conversation and again, I see nothing wrong with speaking with or starting a friendship with a person simply because their are some issues in the relationship. Nothing wrong with a platonic friendship IMO.


I think they are just wary of me initiating an EA, and the reprecussions that might ensue. No, there is no way I am interested in anything other than just friendly banter and conversation. After all, my husband apparently doesn't see anything wrong with it! He defends his friendship with this girl more than he defends his marriage to me!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> I think they are just wary of me initiating an EA, and the reprecussions that might ensue. No, there is no way I am interested in anything other than just friendly banter and conversation. After all, my husband apparently doesn't see anything wrong with it! He defends his friendship with this girl more than he defends his marriage to me!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah I think we were talking about two different situations. Nothing wrong with having friends just don't hide it from the other person, if all you are is friends then there shouldn't be anything to hide anyway.


----------



## YinPrincess

Trenton said:


> Yin, when/why did your daughter move in with your sister?
> 
> He's supporting you but not your entire family? Honestly, I'd be resentful of this.
> 
> Just wondering if I'm missing something and it was a choice you both made or something happened that made it a great choice for you both.


Initially because I became very ill and my husband can no longer be trusted to care for her. While I was sick and in bed he decided that getting tanked was the solution. He became sick himself and my mother picked up my daughter to care for her while I was ill. She kept making excuses to hold onto my daughter, and I've come to realize her motive was to "bait" me into leaving my husband...

My husband IS providing financial support for my daughter, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> Even then, so long as she isn't sneaking around and keeping the friendship a secret from him, her anger revolves around him keeping it a secret, that isn't something one tends to do if it's *strictly platonic*. I'm not suggesting she do it behind his back, I'm saying that I think relationship problems are not a reason to keep from making new friends.
> 
> Now if she was thinking of becoming friends with someone, or even just communicating regularly with someone and keeping it hidden from her H, that would be an issue. There's no reason for hidden relationships in a marriage.
> 
> ETA: I think you and I are talking about two completely different situations here LOL


My husband DOES know about this guy. I have disclosed everything except the flirting, which only began last night. I've met this guy briefly before but never really talked to him before last night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> My husband DOES know about this guy. I have disclosed everything except the flirting, which only began last night. I've met this guy briefly before but never really talked to him before last night.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then I don't see any issue with it, nothing wrong with making a new friend so long as you aren't hiding it, and you aren't.


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> Yeah I think we were talking about two different situations. Nothing wrong with having friends just don't hide it from the other person, if all you are is friends then there shouldn't be anything to hide anyway.


Well, there is some mild flirting now, I'll admit it. I don't even think my husband would care if I told him. In fact, I think I'll tell him now... Not that it matters. He discloses nothing to me about this supposedly harmless girl at work... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> Well, there is some mild flirting now, I'll admit it. I don't even think my husband would care if I told him. In fact, I think I'll tell him now... Not that it matters. He discloses nothing to me about this supposedly harmless girl at work...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah he didn't tell you anything about her but don't stoop to his level.


----------



## YinPrincess

Yeah... Told him this guy was flirting with me. He doesn't care, just like I knew he wouldn't. He doesn't care enough about keeping me around. Almost feels like he wants me gone most of the time... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

In fact, my husband has 100% access to this thread. I sent it to him before to read and he knows I'm writing in it now...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> Yeah... Told him this guy was flirting with me. He doesn't care, just like I knew he wouldn't. He doesn't care enough about keeping me around. Almost feels like he wants me gone most of the time... :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask him, just turn around and say "Do you want me to leave?" or just "Do you want me gone?". Put him on the spot for it, if he says no, tell him that's not how he acts, if he says yes, say "fine" pack your stuff and tell him to take you to your sisters or give you the keys.


----------



## geek down

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Yin, get out...stay out.. get healthy and then find a guy that compliments you for who you are...This alien can't do that.


----------



## YinPrincess

Hellioness said:


> Ask him, just turn around and say "Do you want me to leave?" or just "Do you want me gone?". Put him on the spot for it, if he says no, tell him that's not how he acts, if he says yes, say "fine" pack your stuff and tell him to take you to your sisters or give you the keys.


When I ask him these questions, (and I have, many, many times), he will skirt around the issue and say things like, "Whatever you want". "It's up to you." I hate these passive responses. I KNOW it's my friggin' choice! But I want to know what HE wants and he is very contradictory. He will say "Yes I do want this to work" if I press him, and yet when we aren't getting along he tells me to "Leave" if I'm not happy. I hate this game-playing BS. I'd rather just hear blunt honesty than these passive-aggressive responses... It's frustrating. I don't ever feel like I get consistent and sincere replies... Therefore, I'm never really sure where he stands. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hopefull363

I think your husband MIGHT change. But not while you are together. I think you both need space to figure out things. Go to IC and fix yourselves. Then maybe after some space and growing maybe you guys can start a NEW relationship. I'm glad you made the decision to go to your daughter. Now I'm praying for you to have the strength to follow though.


----------



## Hopefull363

YinPrincess said:


> When I ask him these questions, (and I have, many, many times), he will skirt around the issue and say things like, "Whatever you want". "It's up to you." I hate these passive responses. I KNOW it's my friggin' choice! But I want to know what HE wants and he is very contradictory. He will say "Yes I do want this to work" if I press him, and yet when we aren't getting along he tells me to "Leave" if I'm not happy. I hate this game-playing BS. I'd rather just hear blunt honesty than these passive-aggressive responses... It's frustrating. I don't ever feel like I get consistent and sincere replies... Therefore, I'm never really sure where he stands.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do know where he stands. At this point you and this marriage are not important enough for him to make a consistent effort to fight for it. He has some serious issues he needs to work on by himself in order to have the capacity to actually know what he wants. Give him the space he needs to figure it out. Whether he wants it or not.


----------



## YinPrincess

Hopefull363 said:


> I think your husband MIGHT change. But not while you are together. I think you both need space to figure out things. Go to IC and fix yourselves. Then maybe after some space and growing maybe you guys can start a NEW relationship. I'm glad you made the decision to go to your daughter. Now I'm praying for you to have the strength to follow though.


It's always possible... But during separations (which aren't very long usually), he tends to divert back into bachelorhood quite easily. Drinking, porn, going out, etc. I may not give him a lot of time, but I don't feel he uses it to reflect, anyhow... 

You're right... He is not putting forth a consistent effort, one way or another. Actions speak volumes... 

We've both been attending IC for several months, I feel I have been making progress... And I feel that he has been pretty self-serving with his IC... Like using his "Social Anxiety" as an excuse to utilize the various exercises the counselor recommends to talk to girls. Of course it's "valid"  He has zero anxiety interacting with other men and has admitted this to me.

His IC has no idea of what my husband is like. He conceals his true intentions and uses his passive-aggressive nature to play up the "victim role". My husband is a professional actor and is very capable of convincing others of his distorted reality... 

He met with my IC to discuss my treatment and I was supposed to do the same with his IC, but mysteriously, his IC has never contacted me about a meeting.

Also, since my husband seems to be in denial about some of his unhealthy communication habits, his IC cannot address those with him.

It's extremely frustrating and I'm fed up with the games... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hellioness

YinPrincess said:


> When I ask him these questions, (and I have, many, many times), he will skirt around the issue and say things like, "Whatever you want". "It's up to you." I hate these passive responses. I KNOW it's my friggin' choice! But I want to know what HE wants and he is very contradictory. He will say "Yes I do want this to work" if I press him, and yet when we aren't getting along he tells me to "Leave" if I'm not happy. I hate this game-playing BS. I'd rather just hear blunt honesty than these passive-aggressive responses... It's frustrating. I don't ever feel like I get consistent and sincere replies... Therefore, I'm never really sure where he stands.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then don't let him get away with dodging the question, tell him you want his honest answer, does he want you around or not. It's a simple yes or no question. Hell if he doesn't immediately so no I don't want you to leave then you've got your answer and he just doesn't want to say it. Don't back down and don't let him get away with that nonsense. Say "I'm going to ask you a question and I want a simple, HONEST yes or no answer. No side stepping the issue, no changing the subject, no games, just give me a straight answer. Do you want me to leave? Yes or no?" if he says anything besides yes or no just ask "Yes? or no?" until he does, if you have to tell him "I know it's ultimately my choice, but I'm asking what YOU want, not what I should do."


----------



## Hopefull363

I read all of that in your other thread. I think with you gone he's going to have to realize what is at stake. Maybe with you gone and not waiting for him at home to play his silly head games, he'll actually try to do what's needed for his own mental health. Now he goes to IC and thinks of ways to blame you and play head games. If you're not there he can't do that. And you have a lot of recovering to do from dealing with the head games. Maybe when you are healthy again you won't want him back. That's what I mean by leaving and giving each other space.

I know you're frustrated Yin. But you have to be frustrated enough to actually do something about it and stick with it.


----------



## lucybrown

I learned from a past relationship to change my approach. Granted, my paranoia/trust issue in that past relationship were not unfounded (he later married that coworker), I promised myself I would never approach this in a way that would leave me looking like a 'paranoid' woman. 
In my marriage, when a new girl's name comes up (happens often) I kindly ask things like, "Oh, I don't recall hearing her name before; she must be new. What does she do? Is she catching on well in the office?" I then let him respond and he usually tells me much more than I asked. His response typically tells me all I need to evaluate if there is a reason to feel like boundaries will/are being crossed. I direct my genuine interest to whether or not she is valuable in helping him do his job and he appreciates that I care about his job being less stressful. 
There was one incident where he said a coworker's name in his sleep. I waited until the next evening and asked jokingly, "Were you dreaming about work last night?" He couldn't remember, so I told him he said her name in his sleep and he went on to reassure me there was no reason to be worried. I told him it hurt my feelings a little but I understood and that it just creeped me out a little. All the while, I acted concerned for him in a kind way, and accepted his apology. As long as you redirect the genuine concern to acknowledging his work is hard, it generally leads to open communication. Not taking this on with open suspicion/anger has helped me to get the answers I was looking for. 
Threatening to talk to the woman may come off as a challenge of war on your husband's territory (his work) and makes him feel at battle, not with but against you. Wish you well!


----------



## michelle13

YinPrincess said:


> Against my better judgment (lol), I just wanted to pose a few questions to the ladies...
> 
> If you recently found out that your husband had been talking to a woman at work - one he never mentioned to you, even though he'd speak daily of his interactions with male co-workers, would that send up a red-flag?
> 
> This would be a total red flag for me.
> 
> How about if he gets highly defensive and hostile when you ask questions about "the other woman"? What would you think if he said he didn't want to share any information because he "doesn't know what your intentions are/what you're capable of". What if he said your questions are "stupid" (like what do you talk about? What does she look like? How often do you talk to her? Kind of questions)...
> Again another red flag. I would be pissed...
> What if he accused you of being "paranoid and suspicious" asking "dumb" questions, saying you are "weird" and "need help" because you were curious.
> I would "surprise" him at work for a lunch out. Ask for a tour and introduce myself to everyone I didn't know by name.
> 
> I told my hubby that it's normal and natural for a woman to respond to red-flags by asking for more information and accessing the "threat", especially considering that he has known this girl for the last couple of years and has never once mentioned her. Even though he talks about his male co-workers quite frequently... Is it out of line to think he is keeping this person a "secret" for a reason? If there was "nothing" to hide, then why omit it?
> He has something to hide...
> What if he accidentally called your DAUGHTER by this other woman's name? How would you feel?
> Pissed and like he's thinking about her more than the people he is currently with. You don't call someone by another persons name without actively thinking about them.
> 
> My husband is completely dismissive and not understanding or empathetic AT ALL regarding this particular situation. He feels I am "out of line" for limiting his "friendships". He's even used the excuse of "overcoming" his "social anxiety" to talk to others... And yet when we went to a mutual friend's house a few nights ago, he made no effort to converse or socialize. And these are people he's known for years. He also has no trouble socializing with the men at his work.
> You are entitled to feel how you want to feel. It is his job to not make you feel that way.
> 
> Once, when going through a "Social Anxiety" checklist, he dismissed all of the symptoms, stating that the only thing that would make him uncomfortable is "asking someone for a date". Imagine he told you, his spouse, THAT. And weeks later you find out about this girl... Would you be cool about it? What if he refused to talk about it, labeling you as "crazy" or "insane" instead?
> His refusal to talk about it is the same as dismissing your feelings. If it is important to you to talk about it then it should be to him too.
> 
> Should I just shut up? Would you? The fact that he is so defensive and hostile makes me feel very insecure. And he has no problems telling me how "insecure" and "pathetic" I sound. This hurts my feelings and I'm really doubtful that this is innocent... I think of all the times he's worked late, come home late, etc... And I wonder...
> I would not just "shut up" or let it go.
> 
> But many of you know my history... I want to ask what YOU would think in this situation...
> Based on all of your questions it sounds like he is having an affair. Perhaps just an emotional one but that is how it sounds. He sounds too defensive and like he's trying to put the focus onto you and you being insecure. You see, it takes the blame off of him and discredits you in the process..
> Thanks for your honest input!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Ok guys!! Unexpectedly, I am meeting with hubby's IC in half hour! Objective is to give my perspective on where hubby can improve! 

My mind is going BLANK!!! Opinions???

All I can think to mention is the verbal/abuse and chronic negativistic attitude!

Any other ideas? This is a ONE TIME deal!! 

Nervous!   
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

hmm.. I'd bring up the fact that he finds it ok to throw vomit in your face...

The fact that he would rather drink then take care of her and all the little ploys for attention..


----------



## YinPrincess

And he AVOIDS conflict as well! Keep reminding me my brain is failing me!   

I'm shaking I'm so nervous! Not prepared for this AT ALL!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

Addition. Lying... Passive-aggressiveness/Controlling...Coming to me slowly... 

10 MINUTES!!!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

calm down pretty lady....Use your head..


----------



## YinPrincess

Trying to...

I don't know why I think he can help. I don't think anyone can penetrate hubby's defenses... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

Its not about your husband at this point...He needs to go back to the mothership and do whatever it is those greys do with each other..

You know he is who he is..

Look at it as this is for you, to help you..


----------



## YinPrincess

It IS for me... Because I want him to change - but isn't that bad and selfish??? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

of course not...

Do I need to get Gaia and have her use a dragon-sized 2X4???


----------



## geek down

How did you make out Yin??


----------



## YinPrincess

Unsure, still finishing up our errands... Will update soon... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

Keep your head up...


----------



## YinPrincess

Thanks, I am trying...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

YinPrincess said:


> Thanks, I am trying...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


just keep thinking of your friend's hot neighbor...


----------



## YinPrincess

LoL!!

Well, just got home. It's been... Draining...

First things first, meeting with hubby's IC - STRANGE!!! This guy is frickin' weird! First of all, the guy spent about 15 minutes talking about HIS family, and how he grew up... Like, he was on a trip down memory lane or something... I listen patiently... And finally, he asks ME what I am doing to better myself... And talking about what I do... Even though the POINT was for me to provide insight on hubby's behaviors and such...

Eventually, I finally get to tell him about the vomit-throwing, cursing, negative and avoidant parts of hubby.

He asks me if I think hubby has made ANY improvement since starting IC... I reflect, sincerely looking for something I could say hubby has improved upon... And I can find nothing. :/

IC seems surprised when I talk of hubby's verbal abuse. Then he goes into another tyrade about how people shouldn't "finger-point" and tell each other how to be... (I am thinking, yes, this applies to me as well as hubby).

I didn't get much out. His IC was very fond of staring off into space and talking excessively... And when he did look at me, he would do this weird squinting thing with his eyes. Honestly, it was kind of intimidating.

One good thing his IC did point out, though, was that for the magnitude of issues hubby and I have together, our MC is probably not qualified to address them. He did state we should specifically look for an MC who is experienced and qualified to tackle addictions, domestic abuse and such. 

All in all, hubby's IC almost appears to be a whimsical elder who, at times, seemed kind of lost and unsure of WHY I was there... (Uh, we've been talking about this for months)... 

After hearing his IC's rants and meanderings through memories, I am fairly uncertain of what the hell he absorbed, if anything.

(Hubby contends that his IC thinks he is "normal" and fine... But this is because hubby does not reveal anything to him, really, except for all the bad things I do to "make" him act out).

I was pretty discouraged, but I accept that I have done everything plus some to try and make this work. I was a little bit upset (not crazy, just teary) when I went in to see my Med Manager. She asked what was going on and I told her about how MC wasn't helping and how I'd cancelled all our remaining sessions. How hubby and I did the IC swap, and answered a few other various questions about our marriage. She left momentarily and came back with my husband!!

We sat down and talked briefly, and she said that she would do her best to "pull some strings and bribe" another MC named Christina to see us. She described her as a balls-to-the-wall type who would not allow hubby to speak for me in session, dodge accountability or tell me things like "grow up" in session.

There's just one problem: Christina is not taking any new clients. Even if she agreed to see us, it could be weeks or months or more before we would have an appointment. Our only other option would be to see an Intern. (No thanks).

She then had my husband leave and we spoke a bit privately. She really went out of her way to find out how best we can be treated... And her job is just medications, basically.

Speaking of meds, she has prescribed me Ritalin for my ADHD. Knowing my husband is formerly an addict, she also warned that if he ever got ahold of my meds, she would no longer prescribe anything for me. I told her I have a lock-box to keep my meds in now, and that I keep the box itself hidden away.

Still, it felt bad that she had to tell me that because he's a fiend... :/

Anyhow, by tonight or tomorrow morning, she will call and let me know what Christina's response is... By the way she described her I am (again) pulling at one last straw to try and save the marriage. Then again, there is a VERY large chance this lady will tell us to kick rocks...

It's been a long, long day. Despite the stress I'm holding up well.

Had a few more errands to run... Apparently my (re-scheduled) MRI has been cancelled. Again. @%&!#!!!! Had to go in and provide information they ALREADY have to be scheduled for a third time... And I still didn't leave with a date... Only a promise to call. :/

Thinking of that neighbor... And the Mustang for sale. And selling my laptop. And lots of things. Wish I could just shut my brain off for once... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

I'm not sure I could give the time of day to someone that threw their vomit in my face, let alone go to therapy..


----------



## YinPrincess

Yeeaaahhhh about that. His IC defended that my husband says he "doesn't remember" and had a black-out. Uh yeah, right. Even still... He's defending it? Wtf is wrong with IC? Ugh.

How convenient, right? After I have a medical, not alcohol-related black-out myself, hubby decides it's a good excuse. Omfg. And who cares? If he did black-out because of drinking, isn't that saying something about him? I'm just appalled that he could do that, knowing I was very, very sick and he was the only one caring for our daughter... Wow.

Anyways, holding onto it=resentment. I'm trying to let it go, for my sanity... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

YinPrincess said:


> Yeeaaahhhh about that. His IC defended that my husband says he "doesn't remember" and had a black-out. Uh yeah, right. Even still... He's defending it? Wtf is wrong with IC? Ugh.
> 
> How convenient, right? After I have a medical, not alcohol-related black-out myself, hubby decides it's a good excuse. Omfg. And who cares? If he did black-out because of drinking, isn't that saying something about him? I'm just appalled that he could do that, knowing I was very, very sick and he was the only one caring for our daughter... Wow.
> 
> Anyways, holding onto it=resentment. I'm trying to let it go, for my sanity... :/
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like JUST the IC alien wanted...

Its not a matter of him blacking out or being drunk... He did it...plain and simple..

Blacking out because of a medical condition and blacking out because you wanted to see what the bottom of a bottle looks like is total different.

Letting it go, doesn't have to mean that you let yourself back into the situation again and again.. You can let go, and still decide you wont accept that behavior.

My mother asked me this question..."What would you be thinking if you had a major medical or safety emergency and the only person there to do anything to help you was your wife?"

I thought about it and said "I'd be thinking...I'm dead."


----------



## pidge70

Blacking out drunk and doing horrible things. I have been the victim of it and the abuser because of it. My mom played that card the night she burned me with a cigarette, the night she sprained my thumb, stepdad played it the night he cracked 2 of my ribs and gave me a concussion when I was 11....the list goes on. I also got "black out" drunk and got physically violent with Joe. Now, I do not drink. There is* NO* excuse for mine or my parents stupidity anymore than there is for your H. 

Also, his IC sounds like a douche.


----------



## elizabethdennis

If he is not hiding something is no reason why he would not want to talk about it. Also, I will not let anyone especially my husband call me stupid or crazy for whatever reason there is.


----------



## MissMe

I was in a relationship for over 25 years with a crazy guy. You sound like I did in those first few years. I could just never get the stars to align perfectly, to make the hard decisions, to truly know that I deserved better. 

He will wear you down day by day, just like he is doing now. He senses you are possibly finding a backbone, he brings you flowers. He'll act nice for an evening, maybe a whole day. You start doubting yourself, telling yourself it's not so bad, look, he's actually trying! You get a little excited, hey, you weren't wrong to stay! He's changing!! You find hope, you feel better, you mend just a little, just enough.

And things go right back to bad, right back to the bad place where this relationship thrives. My heart is breaking for you.


----------



## YinPrincess

Ok guys... I got the call this morning... My Med Manager was successful in at least getting this other MC to "interview" us and take it from there!

I'm not trying to be hopeful or anything, (ok, I am a little bit), but I'm about to schedule a time to meet her...

And hubby is coming home for lunch... 

Tried first dose of Ritalin... I feel incredibly tired and have a headache... Ack. Will write more later...

(And I agree with all of you.. "Blacking-out" is NO excuse for his behavior... I don't care what anyone says... Handle your damn liquor or don't freakin' drink)!!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

Yin.. what the flying fvck woman?!?! You need to seriously take a step back and read your posts as if your looking in on a strangers posts. It sounds like your in the god damn twilight zone. Swapping ic's, med manager comming in with hubby, hubbys behavior excused because he doesn't remember? No... no and no! 


All that is far to complicated, unorganized, bizzare, ect. 


Imagine your posts as the posts of a complete stranger. What would you suggest?


----------



## Dollystanford

Gaia is right Yin - I can barely keep up
What about the baby, what's going on?


----------



## YinPrincess

Yeah, I admit it's been very strange. It feels like a joke that everyone is in on except me. His IC is REALLY strange... I want to say "creepy" but after reading the "Creep" thread I don't wanna say that. :lol:

Anyways, he's pissed off at me for God knows what. Just need to get my mind together. Finally got meds for my concentration and indecisiveness so I'm hoping it will help. (Just seems to make me sleepy and groggy, though?! And gives me a huge headache)!!

Anyhow, his response to the "good news" wasn't what I'd hoped, and I can see now that he really doesn't want to change. Not even for his own happiness... That's too sad!

I did ask my sister to pick me up tomorrow. No more excuses, let's just DO THIS. We'll figure everything else out when I get there. If I think too much I'll get too scared to leave, and I hope she doesn't flake out on me again... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

My baby is about to turn one year old on April 4th. Can't believe it's been a year already! I'm really missing her... This whole situation sucks. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Gaia

Why havent you gone to see her yet?


----------



## YinPrincess

My daughter? I've been to see her several times! My husband has only seen her ONCE - on my birthday, and that was it!

No way, I can't go without seeing her regularly... Even though she looks at me like I'm a stranger anymore... :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## YinPrincess

My IC is a SAINT! She just called to say she knows what was going on yesterday and said that she would see me after hours tomorrow if I wanted! Of course I told her yes! One of the more decent of the people in the office, that's for sure!! 

(If you remember, due to scheduling problems, I'd otherwise not be able to see her until April 30th).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

Yin...Get off the ride...

for the love of god, stop trying to get a man that doesn't respect himself to respect and honor you...I know you want that to happen more than anything..But its not going to...I hate to be that blunt to you but I feel I need to be... All you are doing by staying is validating his actions and allowing him to escalate the abuse...

He threw vomit at you....VOMIT!!! 

If he can do that to you...think about what he could do to your daughter? I hate to think of the outcome for both you and her..

You're a caring and loving person trying to love a man of denial and animosity...I get your rationalized reasons for it too, but damn woman...this guy isn't going to stop what he's doing until something really nasty occurs....And I would hate to see that happen to a good person that only wishes to do good..


----------



## YinPrincess

I'm really trying. Been preparing for this for weeks or months, even. It takes a loooooong time for things to set in my head...

Not helping that now my sister is texting me about what I'm bringing with me, and giving me a hard time about my geckos and worms. Freakin' A!!! She told me before it wouldn't be an issue and now she's giving me sh*t about it! 

Is it not bad enough that I'll have to leave my dogs behind? The dogs who were the very reason I succeeded in leaving before and staying motivated to get myself back on track? It feels like I'm going to be abandoning everything that gives me the sense of normalcy and love in my life.

I know, my daughter should be more important, and she IS, but you can't just discount over a decade of relationships with these animals. Many of them are old and nearing the end of their lives... And I am feeling tremendous GUILT over leaving them with this fvcktard...   
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

I know Yin..I have a cat that I may have to surrender soon.. He needs a special diet and if he has an episode he could die very painfully in less than a day... With my new job, I won't be home for 3 to 4 days at a time...

I'm trying to rationalize a reason to keep him....but I know what I will have to do..

AS for your sister....Yin...I'm going to get the 2X4 again...STAND UP FOR YOURSELF!! She is doing that because she knows she can.. I'm not going to say they are just geckos cause I know what they mean to you...and so should your sister...Yes, its going to get bad, and yes its going to suck royally..and Yes, you're going to be ok.

My buddy instituted 'Slaps-giving'.. I asked him that in the event that I EVER get REALLY STUPID and take my wife back, to take my glassed off...punch me straight in the face...put my glasses back on my face and get me a towel to wipe up the blood...Thats if I'm still conscious..I don't advise this, but its helping me when I try to 'rationalize'.

Take a look at the coolidge quote in my sig..and call your friends every so often...


----------



## YinPrincess

Awww... How soon do you have to make a decision about your cat? I've been there and done that before... I know how heartbreaking it is... :'(

Unfortunately, my sister is being one giant @%#!*! Today, so she is apparently sending my baby home tomorrow, rather than letting me come stay with her. I stopped texting her after she became verbally abusive and starting putting me down. I never asked her to take my baby and hold her like she did, and I'm miffed that she would even act like I dumped my child on her and "forgot" about her! How can she say that after I've texted/called/visited almost every day? Screw that. I KNEW she would find an excuse for me not to come down! She always says that I can come stay with her and finds excuses the second it's about to happen! I am so sick of her crap!

Anyways, so my husband and I will have our daughter at home with us until the next big drama. I did text him this and he seemed very relieved and excited to have her back... (Contrary to the fact that he hasn't said squat the last two weeks). 

So, not the ideal turn of events, but I can't say I didn't expect it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## geek down

I don't really have to choose what to do for about anouther 6 weeks.. So I'm seeing if another possibility comes along..come on long lost love that wants to house sit...daddy needs a new pair of shoes!!!...

Yin, I really dont have anything I can say about what your sister is doing..You're caught between a rock and hard place.

My father told me "Life isn't a straight road or Highway. Its that twisted country road that takes many twists and turns...Potholes, wash-outs and downed trees...The road where you don't know where you're gonna end up until you get there."

:hug:


----------



## geek down

Haven't seen an update in a while Yin...How's things?


----------

