# What if I never loved my wife?



## dannyboy

Hi everyone.

I'm a married guy in my mid-thirties with two lovely daughters. However I'm reaching the conclusion that I never truly loved my wife. I don't want to hurt her but now, after 10 years of marriage I can't stand this anymore and I feel I have to let her know.

When we started dating she was so loving and caring for me that I never had the courage to tell her to stop. I didn't want to hurt her feelings. I liked her but never felt real passion for her. I felt surrounded there was nothing I could do to escape. With time I found it increasingly difficult to hit the stop or, at least, the pause button. I guess I also became comfortable with a relationship working in auto-pilot mode.

She was lacking some traits and attributes I appreciate in a woman, but tried to see it from the point that none is perfect and I will always find another woman that is more attractive/gifted than she is, so I don't have the right to use that to bring our relationship to an halt. I always tried be very rational about feelings and I thought that the butterflies-n-the-belly, magic or burning thing that was never there was something of a teenager and not something appropriate for a grown up men. I also considered that my lack of strong feelings for her was due to my stress or overwork. I kept looking ahead waiting that time would help me sort things out. Years went by. Eventually we married.

I felt I was doing the right thing but the truth is: we never developed the degree of bonding and intimacy a healthy relationship needs to have. Our sex life for that matter has been a source of frustration for me. In the very night we married and honey moon things didn't work out. In the following months she couldn't reach an orgasm. I was very patient and understanding. I also tried to talk to her for several times but she never opened up. She did then what she does often just turns her back on me and says nothing at all (But note: I never talk loud or act rude with her). With time things started to work out a bit better but we still have the sex life of a couple in their fifties.

I feel frustrated, empty, lonely and unloved. I also feel guilty because maybe her behavior lies in the fact that she never felt truly loved. Now I find myself increasingly wanting to know what a relationship featuring romance and burning passion feels like.

For many years now I feel nothing at all when kissing her. The few times we have sex she normally enjoys it more than I do. I end up with the feeling of having betrayed myself. I look at other couples and I realize, for example, I never used the same caring words they use, I never did because I would be lying. Knowing that something was wrong with our rel/ I didn't want to have children. She went into a depressive state. I gave in. More of the same pattern: I didn't want to see her "suffering".

I guess that no woman wants to live with a man whose heart is not hers. I have to tell her no matter how much it hurts. I believe we care about each other but maybe that's not enough to maintain a marriage. I feel I've married the wrong woman.

Have you ever stumbled on a case similar to mine? Please share your thoughts.

Many thanks in advance. (I hope this post is not too off-topic for this group.)


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## preso

depends on ones definition of love.. some think its a feeling and others actions... and others a mixture of the 2 of varying degrees.

If you think marriage is based on romance, and sex... your going to get a big wake up call.... as the honeymoon phase is short and reality then sets in. Hopefully you have more than romance because then you will find there is nothing to base real life and marriage on.

why did you marry her?
Sounds like you were lonley and picked someone to marry, now regret it, think you can do better.
Maybe you di dnot marry the wrong woman, your just not the right man... some men are never satisfied and very competative ... want women who are more throphies than wives.
My ex was like that...
which is why I walked away right before the wedding and married someone more down to earth.


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## dannyboy

Hi. Thanks for your reply.

Precisely because I think that marriage is *not* based (at least only), on sex and romance I have strived to maintain this relationship alive for the last 10 yrs. 

I dare to say that we have almost all the ingredients to base real life and marriage upon. All but passion and romance. Now, what will be of a marriage where we have all that but the feeling? what happens on a relationship where the spark was never there, not even in the beginning? 
I'm afraid that the relationship doesn't develop. I start to believe that when one is not fulfilled on that level, sooner or later will have to come to deal with that.

Why did I marry her is very good question you ask. Precisely because i regarded sex/romance as a second plan thing I accepted to marry. But as I said, the main reasons were: on the one hand, I just let things take their course. It was just another task to finish. On the other, I didn't have the courage to disapoint everyone arround me.


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## preso

you know I dont mean to be harsh but have you considered that maybe your boring? if you start to go out and do new things with your wife, you may see her as more interesting...
and have more fun too.
It could be your just in a rut or something.. I'm not sure, but it sounds like you need to take more vacations and maybe have a common interest thats recreational to do together...

to get sparks, you sometimes have to do something to set the enviroment for them to grow into something. Could be you 2 have got set in your ways and need to vary things up a little with your routine. I could be wrong...
but thats what I feel from what you wrote.

to add:
I am someone who could easily get stuck in a rut...
and routines, husband is not one to let that happen 
Maybe your ( you and your wife) both more like me ?


could be too, you have unrealitic expectaTIONS, GRASS IS GREENER syndrome, thinking things should be something, which are not true... Too much TV can do that to people


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## Blonddeee

If that is all that is missing from your marriage- I think you should do everything you can to make that happen- make things exciting... she's probably bored too and if she thinks you are checked out then she's not going to be excited about making you happy. Passion and love are very important, but they take work... I've read that the butterfly part of love only last a couple years and then it changes into a different kind of love. You can't just expect your wife to be exciting if you are sitting there staring at the wall bored out of your mind... do something about it- it's worth a try... divorce is NOT fun.


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## Blonddeee

Not trying to attack you because I know you are coming here for help and that's a good thing. I agree with the above post. Try putting yourself in her shoes- you say that you've never used caring words when talking to her like other couples- she probably wants that- she might have a little more passion if she felt loved and wanted. She probably looks at other couples and sees the desire the man has for his wife and probably feels as incomplete as you do. Put in the work- what do you have to lose- you have a family- it's worth working to keep. The grass isn't always greener. How did you propose? I like you and I don't want to hurt you, lets get married? Are you romantic with her at all?


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## preso

lost and confused has expounded what I meant by boring... its like your sitting there waiting for life and your wife to excite you and make you happy...


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## Ingrid

hmmm I read the OP's post quite differently than several of the responders... What shame is there in admitting his truth, that he doesn't love her? The worse shame is continuing, trying to go through the motions, and feeling empty inside. 

I don't believe all that "love is not a feeling, it's a choice" crap. It's both. And there has to be a foundation of chemistry or people will get to exactly this point where the OP is, wondering... "is that all there is?" 

Maybe, maybe not, but trying to shame him into feeling something that's not there, sure isn't gonna help him find out faster.


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## Atholk

dannyboy said:


> She did then what she does often just turns her back on me and says nothing at all....
> 
> ... The few times we have sex she normally enjoys it more than I do. I end up with the feeling of having betrayed myself.


Ouch and ouch. Men need teh sex.


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## sisters359

While I agree with Ingrid, I see this thread as a classic example of why a site like this is useful--we each get to see "the other side" in a troubled marriage. I'm more in the OP's position, and I find it helpful to hear from those who may be the ones feeling rejected in their marriage. I can empathize with the OP, but I can sympathize with the people slamming him. It's really a case of "until you have walked a mile in my shoes. . ." and hearing from those who have been hurt by a spouse helps me walk in those shoes and, I hope, make me a better person for it. I cannot undo what has happened, but I can try to be less hurtful and do less damage in the way I leave.

As for you OP, yes, there are others like you out there--people who got married when they knew they weren't truly in love or passionately attracted to their spouse. We can debate all day long whether or not one should go or stay--ultimately, that is a totally personal decision, best arrived at with lots of soul searching and some counseling. Our society presents divorce as a horrible, damaging thing--but then, on the other hand, most of the divorced people I know end up pretty darn happy. And kids do remarkably well when the divorced parents remain amicable for the sake of the kids. Geez, most of the messed up kids I knew growing up came from so-called "intact" families, for goodness sake! Anyway, I hope you find an answer that brings you peace. Best of luck.


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## outinthecold

I really feel for you, 

trapped it seems you are, 

how is it you have come to this conclusion?

think about your decisions

if you stay, thats one decision

if you go, you will only see your girls like a redacted novel

if you stay, talk, try, there is a chance for change.

if you go, you kill your family.

your girls will never be the same, at risk they will become.

weigh your decision carefully, 

sometimes our lot in life can be right in our face and we don't see it,

could it be raising your girls is all you get and thats enough, at least for me it would be.


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## sisters359

outinthecold said:


> if you go, you will only see your girls like a redacted novel . . .
> 
> if you go, you kill your family.
> 
> your girls will never be the same, at risk they will become.


Divorce changes a family, it does not "kill" it. Families come in all sorts of forms--always have, always will. The "nuclear family" is, in history, a relatively new concept. We act like it has been this way for all time, but it hasn't. 

My S2BX will be spending a lot MORE time interacting with our kids now that he has them on his own. I personally love the time alone with my kids now; the unhappiness in my marriage was a cloud affecting everything and everyone in the house. I didn't even realize it until it was gone, however, and I have to say that the quality of MY time with the kids has improved, too. 

A lot of the impact of divorce is in how you look at it and how you choose to handle it. It will not "be" one way or another beyond your control.


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## preso

Maybe the fact is, you settled.............

who knows but you?
now after this long of marriage to get out, its going to be $$$
expensive, but you can pay for your freedom if you think you can do better in life divorced.

10 years is the mark... where you lose big time, retitrement 
and home... but you CAN get out of it... and rebuild if you choose to. Hopefully since you did such a bad job at choosing your partner
for marriage you won't repeat it or stay frozen in fear of making another mistake.

Its all up to you and if your that unhappy and unmotivated to make changes in yourself, your only option is to divorce.


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## outinthecold

Sorry, family is a loose term.

It shouldn't be.

Fine and dandy for you grownups.

As far as the kids, they will never recover from divorce.

I am a product of divorce and so is my wife.

Each of us seek something we will never find.

Once you kill the family, you are just single parents, living separately. 

I say kill because the period that comes after is mourning.

Everyone calls it mourning, so it is a death.

The death of a marriage, the death of a family unit.

I call it "Kill" because you are going to do it intentionally

When the kids grow up, where do they go to feel at home?

Vacations, Christmas, Thanksgiving spread between two homes, maybe two geographical locations.

What do they say to each parent about the other?

Always watching what words they can use?

What information they can give out?

What step-people there are?

What step-people they can't stand?

It should be a book, "The Redacted Family"


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## dannyboy

I can only start by thanking a lot for the care you show in your replies. It is helping me to introspect. I just found that there is no way to reply individually but since some comments overlap I can try to reply in one post.

Preso, Blondeee and Lostandfound. You mention that I need to break the routine and make things more exciting. I agree. But wasn't I the one trying to get us into new and exciting things many times before? Yes it was me. And no, I'm not the sort of person who sits on the sofa watching TV. 

Lostandfound asks me what I have put into the relationship. I can say everything, to my limit. To the point of sometimes not recognizing myself anymore. For example changing in every way she asked. (I thought that that would lead me to get the feelings for her I didn't have). Did she change? No. Wow. And we are not even talking in the same plan here. Let's see.. for instance: does she at least agree in putting the hearings I like? No. Never. Does that matter to me? A awful lot. Why? Turns me on, go figure. ---ok you can say I'm futile and an idiot now... ;-)--- 

I fully agree that loving someone goes beyond appreciating looks, etc. Its the heart that counts. It was precisely this mindset that made me stay with her. I kept on repeating that to myself as I hopped, month after month, that the somewhere down the road, either she would fulfill me in that emotional sense (sorry, this may sound selfish, I know) or that I would not consider this as important anymore. 

Bloondee says it well when she mentions that butterflies feeling doesn't last forever. That's fine. I wouldn't expect that. I presume that it happens precisely to take the relationship on to a next level. But I insist in asking, what of relationship where butterflies never entered the scene? 

I see myself a the romantic kind. But can I act romantic to my sister? I don't think so. (At least in the sense we are talking). Can I act romantic to a woman I don't love? In truth?! I guess not. But can I fake it? I guess so.

Just to give you a bit of context more: You cannot possibly imagine that it took me a long time to admit that I feel I never really loved her. Its the greatest failure of my life. I was in denial for years. Until, at some point, it struck me: "Who are you tying to fool? yourself? plus everyone around you?". I tried to ignore this. I even thought that as a parent I think that in an extreme situation I would sacrifice my own life for my children. So, likewise, maybe because of them I should just do my best and stay. Until one day I imagined myself being 80 yrs old and regretting not having had the courage to face this fact. Regretting that all I was, after all, was a coward that never had the guts to face life (and his happiness) head on.

Do I still make sense?


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## preso

I dont know whats worse, married to someone you love
or being in love and married ( or with) to the wrong person.

I have been on the "in love with the wrong person" side and it sure did go badly for me. What came of it was great pain and lessons....
ones I won't repeat, because that would make me an idiot... to love someone who is not worthy of it/ does not appriciate it or return it....
or mistakenly thinking you can change someone.

we all gather in this world, meeting each other, to know some people better than others.... all in Gods plan I think to teach us lessons... and become closer to God. I find its certainly not for world peace 
Mans basic instincts can sure set them the wrong way.. more so when not grounded by common sense and lack of knowledge of ones self....
I find people are not to be trusted...
and the ones we love the most hurt us the most... maybe all part of the master plan to grow closer to God.


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## sisters359

outinthecold said:


> Sorry, family is a loose term.
> 
> It shouldn't be.
> 
> Fine and dandy for you grownups.
> 
> As far as the kids, they will never recover from divorce.
> 
> I am a product of divorce and so is my wife.
> 
> Each of us seek something we will never find.
> 
> Once you kill the family, you are just single parents, living separately.
> 
> I say kill because the period that comes after is mourning.
> 
> Everyone calls it mourning, so it is a death.
> 
> The death of a marriage, the death of a family unit.
> 
> I call it "Kill" because you are going to do it intentionally
> 
> When the kids grow up, where do they go to feel at home?
> 
> Vacations, Christmas, Thanksgiving spread between two homes, maybe two geographical locations.
> 
> What do they say to each parent about the other?
> 
> Always watching what words they can use?
> 
> What information they can give out?
> 
> What step-people there are?
> 
> What step-people they can't stand?
> 
> It should be a book, "The Redacted Family"



You have missed the point. This is your opinion; it is not a FACT that is always true. Many children of divorce are happy people who do not feel this way about their childhood. Many are thrilled to have loving step-parents in their lives. Divorce in and of itself is NOT the problem; it's how parents handle their divorce. Just like, having an intact family is no guarantee of happiness. I know a lot of children of two-parent household who are unhappy, too. (I'm a teacher). I'm sorry your experience of divorce was so negative, OITC, but it was YOUR experience and does not guarantee that everyone will have the same experience as you.


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## Ingrid

sisters359 said:


> You have missed the point. This is your opinion; it is not a FACT that is always true. Many children of divorce are happy people who do not feel this way about their childhood. Many are thrilled to have loving step-parents in their lives. Divorce in and of itself is NOT the problem; it's how parents handle their divorce. Just like, having an intact family is no guarantee of happiness. I know a lot of children of two-parent household who are unhappy, too. (I'm a teacher). I'm sorry your experience of divorce was so negative, OITC, but it was YOUR experience and does not guarantee that everyone will have the same experience as you.


:iagree:
I come from an "intact" family (my parents stayed married for over 40 years; father has since passed away); my husband comes from an "intact" family (his parents are still married, and all his siblings are still married to first spouse or widowed).

So, there is no divorce "shadowing" either of our upbringings. 

However, in NO way did that guarantee roses and sunshine in my past or currently. I suffered through difficult depression as a young adult, and now I'm going through a very difficult time in my marriage. In fact, perhaps BECAUSE I practically never saw my parents arguing or engaging in open conflict, I feel I am repeating the same mistakes they did; I know they were not fully happy, although it was not a horrible marriage either.

The feeling was that our family was patched together with glue and bandaids and it held together "okay" but I wouldn't call it thriving nor was the marriage a source of huge joy for my parents. And, my brother, in middle age, seems to continually suffer from depression and negative self-esteem that seem to have prevented him from getting married or even creating a rewarding romantic relationship. 

The whole point of my bringing up this family history, is my belief that staying together for the kids will NOT guarantee happiness; kids from intact families can be as "broken" as anyone else.

Sorry for derailing the thread... back to the original topic... 

I am in a similar situation where I don't think I ever felt butterflies or deeply "in love" with my husband; in fact I've come across old journal entries I wrote, that confirms that fact. However, he was such a seemingly good match in all other ways and I was delighted by having found someone so likable and "suitable" that I would have never forgiven myself if I *hadn't* gone ahead and married him... I was trying to be mature and sensible knowing that "butterflies" didn't really matter and sexual chemistry was not important.... but here I am, many years later, in a difficult situation....


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## dannyboy

Hi again, I think that outinthecold comments are helpful in reminding us of what is at stake. You are right, not having "a" place to call home is devastating for a child. If there were no children, I'm almost sure we would have gone our separate ways by now. But because of the children I must handle this very carefully. 

Concerning kids happiness, I guess that it is the respect one has for one another that is key. Now, one can act disrespectful or respectful to the other within a marriage or after a divorce, regardless. Lack of respect for the other often springs from bitterness and related feelings. For example: I don't see myself ever criticizing mamy in front of my daughters. I never did. I never will. We may not go well along together but that's our problem. I'll always portray their mother as the best in the world. No matter what. Of course I expect her to do likewise. 

BTW, I believe as a man I also set the example for the type of men both my girls will seek for themselves one day. Since I usually don't display love to my wife, am I being a good role model? Surely not. Just another thought that comes to my mind often.

Ingrid, when I finished reading your post I got the feeling that you ended up marrying in a condition pretty much similar to mine. Can you share more of it with us, or tell us more of what you mean by a difficult situation? Maybe it would help. Or maybe it would help me at least.


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## outinthecold

Time to dig deep people.

If you have marriage enders like:

infidelity, violence, abuse, addiction, prison, or death

Anything else can be worked out.

Are you good for your word,

You promised thru bad times

You gave that ring and said I will be there

Not, I will be there until _ _ _ (fill in the blank)

Do you want bag children?

They will become bag children, because of the bag they have to carry and remember which house they go to for what night.

Then you have to decide if you want to be the event parent or the tenderness parent?

Event Parent swoops in and takes the kids for ice cream, movie, show, sporting event then plops the kids back home then rushes off to his new girlfriend or new boyfriend or their step families.

Tenderness Parent is there for breakfast, is there for tears, is there for band-aids, is there to pick up after school, is there to brush hair, is there for them when they finally want to talk, is sleeping on the couch so the kids can jump on you or is just there ...

Remember the qualities of a parent is 99% being there. Nothing else.

So which are you?

Or which are you going to be?

"Watch me momma Look at me" "Watch me Daddy look at me"


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## dobo

What I take away from this is that you haven't been true to yourself. You said you went along with things and didn't stop when you felt you should. Is that really the case? Can you look back early in the relationship and say that you wanted to break up with her? Did you really stay for her or did you stay because she gave you the things you thought you wanted? IOW, did you wind up where you are because you're Mr. Selfless or did you wind up here because of your own flaws?

You say you've changed in every way she asked you to. I'm wondering if you think that is what marriage is about -- becoming what the other person wants you to be. 

You also said that her choice of earings makes a difference -- the right ones turn you on. That doesn't sound like a guy who is devoid of passion for his wife. It sounds like a guy who feels he's done more than his fair share of "changing" and wants his wife to change now.

Do you ever wonder if you had been different toward her if she'd have been different toward you? This is a dance. This isn't one way. 

Sometimes I think the "I never loved you" thing is an excuse where you get to relieve yourself of guilt and avoid responsibility for not taking responsibility for your own happiness. 

Or, is there someone who has caught your eye and this has actually been the driving force behind this decision that you don't love your wife and never have?

If you have truly never loved her (which I doubt), you have stolen from her what can never be returned. I'd feel sorry for you for being such a wimp but she's the one who is going to be blind-sided.


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## preso

My husband like any man, could get very lazy in the relationship...
you have to be sure to not be the kind of woman who accepts little or nothing or broken hamburgers...
Husband should offer his wife the best
and visa versa... that is what a good relationship is based on, not taking the other for granted...

but as I have learned from this forum....
most people just don't "get it" when it comes to those things.

and they are the ones who suffer... 

gee, its too bad, but it seems to be the norm.


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## Ingrid

dannyboy said:


> Ingrid, when I finished reading your post I got the feeling that you ended up marrying in a condition pretty much similar to mine. Can you share more of it with us, or tell us more of what you mean by a difficult situation? Maybe it would help. Or maybe it would help me at least.


My marriage is greatly lacking in intimacy. There are issues with addiction present (drinking, porn, on his part, computer addiction on mine). I could blame those issues but I think they are not the cause, they are instead the effect of simply slipping away from each other and ourselves. 

I did (and do) love my husband, but it was never really butterflies; instead, I met someone who fit everything on my "list"... he was and is a good person, intelligent, was really cute 15 years ago, and we got along very well as great friends. There was never any real passion outside of the excitement of finally having met someone; but I was fine and happy with that. Sex wasn't a big deal for me back then so I didn't think much that there weren't great sparks in bed.

Now, I am not sure. The "issues" are a factor, the lack of intimacy is an issue; he feels like a brother rather than a lover. Can I rekindle something? I don't know. We have kids too, so there are no easy answers. Right now we are friendly roommates. Would I be happy living with someone who is at the most, my "best friend" but does not feel like a lover? I don't know. I keep going back and forth.


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## CarolineMRF

IMO, things should never have to be "rekindled"...They should be remembered from day one...and grow with the years...He should always think that he is tops on your list...He is the one who took you to the ball....So many women forget to remember until it is too late....


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## Ingrid

Caroline, in an ideal condition, true. However, reality is very often not ideal.

People sometimes say things on this forum like "well if you <fill in the blank> you shouldn't have gotten married in the first place." The blank can be anything. But people find themselves married and in difficult situations nonetheless. I am never sure how those kinds of answers are meant to "help" since the technology is not yet in place to rewind time.

Perhaps things should not "have" to be rekindled, but when the energy is missing from a relationship, something needs to be done.


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## Jake

I am in the same boat as Dannyboy. Thanks for sharing your story, and thanks to those who replied to him.

I am trying to make it work, but sometimes I get so frustrated and I think "How much longer should I try? Is love ever going to develop? Can you manufacture love just because you want to, or does it just have to happen? I mean, I love, but I haven't ever had the butterflies with my wife like I've had them with a couple others, with whom it didn't work out with. I often wonder "what is it like to live a routine life with the one for whom you felt the butterflies?" What is it like to take that original love, and develop it into something deeper? What is it like to share your all, your secrets, your thoughts with that person, and still KNOW that you will be accepted with open arms and love? I hope I will know before I leave this earth.

I do know what it feels like to love unconditionally, but I don't know what it feels like to have a mutually loving relationship. I suppose there are many out there like Dannyboy and me.

Jake


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## knortoh

Hey Danny Boy,

I really don't wish to judge you in anyway - 

I have read your post carefully as about 11 months ago my husband of 9 years turned 40 and 2 weeks later told me he hadn't loved me for 10 years and I immediately told him to leave.

We have two beautiful boys - 8 and 10. 

After an initial peiod of separation of around 4 months my husband came back. Although I had been devastated when he left I 'knew' something was wrong and in a way it was a relief to finally hear what he had to say. He got some counselling and we started reconnecting and finally one night he walked in the door told me that he "had always loved me" and that he was coming back not for me, not for the kids, but for himself.....

Kids and I are overjoyed - 

fast forward two months - he starts acting weird again - 

I notice he takes off his wedding ring when comes home - we go to MC but he doesn't seem to be open. 

He has another woman on his mind - (younger work colleague) who he had wanted to have an affair with but hadn't because counsellor had said no relationships for you for 2 years! 

I realise that he doesn't want to tell me that he loves me again....

Horrible stressful time - he goes again 

He's been gone 3 months. I am heartbroken, angry, distraught, hate being single mum, hate trying to explain his behaviour to kids, THINK IT IS SO F****ING unfair that I now have to wake up 3 mornings a week and not see my kids 

My situation is not identical

H and I always have had lots of sex and even he admitted that we'd had lots of passion -

But he was keen to impress upon me that he has
1. always had doubts (abiut his feelings for me) 
2. never thought it wise /easy/ to express those to me
3. doesn't like hurting me (as I said he can cross that one off his list!)
4. had feelings for someone else that he thought were qualitatively diferent to thsoe he had for me
5. always harboured the idea that he could be 'happier' with someone else.
6. admits that we are great mates - kind and considerate, wonderful parents etc. 


Still it was not ENOUGH - 

So in the end he exited again.

Danny Boy who knows what you'll do. Everyone has the right to seek happiness - 
But what I discovered with my H was that he wasn't actually interested in working on the 'relationship' 

He just wanted a 'different' person - and in his case he has one lined up.

(My H works in a profession where he is in a position of power with lots of women who find him very attractive - has had offers of affairs but finds them morally distateful - I fully believe he hasn't ever betrayed me physically). 

I am not saying that this is the case with you guys - but my H is quite passive aggressive. This means that he is not upfront about things especially when they are difficult - my H had two ways of dealing with things - either he would be MR. Nice Guy and jsut go along OR just dig his heels in - NO discussion - he could never debate anything. 

He has let resentment build up and build up -

By the time he got round to telling me it was 'doing it' for him he had already LEFT - that's the truth and that hurts like hell.

If you love your wife and kids tread carefully - for your sake and for theirs - the pain, the damage is enormous. 

And I am sorry but I am going to leave you with a difficult question 

Are you really as SELFLESS as you say you are? Noone stays in a marriage for that long without getting a whole lot of good stuff out of it - sure you will find someone who 'turns you on' in a completky new way - why not - you are older, more experienced, know what you want etc. That one is a no brainer - we could all go out and find that - but will that relationship deliver all the other goodies? 

If you don't mind risking what you have then I am guessing tha for whatever reason you have already made your mind up even if you can't admit it to yourself.


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## CarolineMRF

Ingrid said:


> Caroline, in an ideal condition, true. However, reality is very often not ideal.
> 
> People sometimes say things on this forum like "well if you <fill in the blank> you shouldn't have gotten married in the first place." The blank can be anything. But people find themselves married and in difficult situations nonetheless. I am never sure how those kinds of answers are meant to "help" since the technology is not yet in place to rewind time.
> 
> Perhaps things should not "have" to be rekindled, but when the energy is missing from a relationship, something needs to be done.


Did you ever really love him?...Is there an inhibited woman that still has not shed her outer self?...Many things factor into deep sexual love for each other.....I married for hot sexual want for each each....He was all I wanted...Only saw him 47 days in two years...He was in the Navy...I gave up big money for him...One a doctor and other prosperous in the future...I could not marry a man and go to bed with him without these feelings that I have...That is why I ask you is there more to you than you have let out?...


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## Crashmdc

This string of messages was very difficult for me to read. I am going through something similar. I have been married to my wife for 19 years. We have 5 children, ages 4 through 18. 

Just recently she told me she was not happy in our relationship. I thought perhaps after 18 years and five kids, we were maybe just taking each other for granted. It took several months of talking with her for her to finally say that she does not think she ever really loved me like I do her. She used many of the same words...that "spark", good friends, etc. I am 45 and she is 43, and at first I thought it was just a midlife crisis of sorts. The more I talk to her now, the more I think what she said is true. I am devastated. I love her so much and had no idea she felt this way. She told me she loves me dearly, but more as a friend and wishes she felt the same way for me as I do for her. She has not left me, and said we need to see how it goes for a while, but wants not to feel trapped if she feels she should go. I care so much for her and want her to be happy, but I do not see how I could live without her. She has been a joy to me every day I have known her. She told me she thought our great friendship was enough and the rest would come. 

We are seeing a councilor but in my heart of hearts I fear I can not give her what it is she is looking for...she can not tell me what it is herself.

Everyday is a struggle and I pray constantly that God will find a way to draw us together, but I am fearful of what may come.

Sorry for the rambling...this just really struck home for me.

Mike


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## lorithehun

Crashmdc said:


> This string of messages was very difficult for me to read. I am going through something similar. I have been married to my wife for 19 years. We have 5 children, ages 4 through 18.
> 
> Just recently she told me she was not happy in our relationship. I thought perhaps after 18 years and five kids, we were maybe just taking each other for granted. It took several months of talking with her for her to finally say that she does not think she ever really loved me like I do her. She used many of the same words...that "spark", good friends, etc. I am 45 and she is 43, and at first I thought it was just a midlife crisis of sorts. The more I talk to her now, the more I think what she said is true. I am devastated. I love her so much and had no idea she felt this way. She told me she loves me dearly, but more as a friend and wishes she felt the same way for me as I do for her. She has not left me, and said we need to see how it goes for a while, but wants not to feel trapped if she feels she should go. I care so much for her and want her to be happy, but I do not see how I could live without her. She has been a joy to me every day I have known her. She told me she thought our great friendship was enough and the rest would come.
> 
> We are seeing a councilor but in my heart of hearts I fear I can not give her what it is she is looking for...she can not tell me what it is herself.
> 
> Everyday is a struggle and I pray constantly that God will find a way to draw us together, but I am fearful of what may come.
> 
> Sorry for the rambling...this just really struck home for me.
> 
> Mike


Hi Mike... I'm very sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time right now. 

I am going through something similar to what you are, except I am in your wife's shoes. It's a terrible situation, and so unfair to you. You've invested so much time. Nearly all of your adult life. I would imagine you might be feeling a little duped, too, maybe, al;though I didn't hear even a hint of bitterness or anger in your message, only sadness and confusion. I admire the way you aren't putting her down or faulting her.. it's all too easy to become angry, but I don't believe that it's anyone's fault at all when a situation like this occurs. 

There are so many feelings that mimic love.. lust, affection, being needed, needing to be cared for, many more.. and they cloud our vision, and make it difficult to pinpoint the true feelings that prompt us to say "I Do". 

I've told my husband the same things that your wife told you. That was several years ago, and here I am, scouring the internet for answers. I checked out several books on 'how to save a marriage' at the library last night. I am trying the approach of "fake it until you make it" (Meaning going through the motions of being in love, sexually and otherwise) in the hopes that I can learn to love my husband. (I should clarify that I do love him, just not the heart-pounding, breath-taking, fireworks kind of love) I want both of us to be happy. 

I hope this gives you even a tiny bit of hope.. the fact that I am still here, and we are still trying. I am really starting to believe that things CAN change, and you can LEARN to love someone in the way you want to love. It's difficult, but I'm thinking it's do-able. In my situation, like yours, there are childrens lives at sake, too, not just mine and my husband's. I have to make a decision that will impact us all, and maybe that decision should be that I put my selfish wants/needs aside and take care of my family first.

((((HUGS)))) for you, Mike. And for your wife as well.


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## mea_3

> dannyboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone.
> 
> I'm a married guy in my mid-thirties with two lovely daughters. However I'm reaching the conclusion that I never truly loved my wife. I don't want to hurt her but now, after 10 years of marriage I can't stand this anymore and I feel I have to let her know.
> 
> 
> 
> Then as her H it's you duty to let her know that and offer her the reasons behind it. Pretending to love her won't get you anywhere. I mean how can one be happy is the love is not there? So do communicate your feelings. Try and find a good Marriage counselor who can offer you some advice and perhaps a fresh perspective on this matter. Best of luck.
Click to expand...


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## revitalizedhusband

Love is not an emotion, its a choice you make.

If you are even willing to work on your marriage I would suggest a book like The Love Dare and do it on your own, without your wife.


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## lorithehun

revitalizedhusband said:


> Love is not an emotion, its a choice you make.


I've read this several times in this forum now.. maybe from you each time? Every time I read it a hazy light bulb kind of winks on and off over my head.. 
Since finding this forum (not sure the correct terminology.. maybe not forum but web site? whatever..) I've been reading it pretty obsessively and I feel like I am on the edge of a change.. no, that's not accurate... what I mean is I am starting to see things differently, and feeling all sorts of hope for my marriage. 
The idea that love is a choice... damn! If that's true then we're gonna be fine.

K, I realize this post has little point, I guess I really just wanted to say thanks for the new thought/idea.


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## koala49

Quite honestly I think you should go and try and find your happiness, you say you stayed with her because you didn't want to hurt her. You hurt her everyday by not giving her the freedom to go out and find a love and happiness for herself. I feel for this woman I could not imagine being in a marriage where she is unloved, not now, not ever. You should have been honest with her in the first place and moved on long before the marriage. Its not only you losing time, but she has wasted 10 years of her life with a man who doesn't love her. You don't think she knows how you feel, woman are much more intuitive to these things than men I believe, and she is probably living every day wondering when the crash is going to come for her and the children. Do it now and give this woman back her life.


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## Sebastian Valmont

Hi

I totally relate, I almost have the same story except for the fact that I never wanted kids, and we never had them. But I know how you feel dude.

There was a time when we were not yet married, that I told her that maybe the best thing for both of us was to stop seeing each other and she cried like a baby, I cried too, because she can lead me to this emotional state she begged me not to even think about leaving her and then I promissed that I would never do so, oh man it is awful, she knows that I do not love her the way she loves me, but she is totally fine with it, as long as I be next to her.

I do not believe in love, never did, whith this I mean the cheap romantic illusion that the media sells, I married her because I did not want to be alone, and since she is almost perfect in every single aspect, I thought ..what the h, maybe some day I will learn to love her and we wil be really happy.. but it is not that easy. 

My friend you are not the only one, however I encourage you to do the best for your family, and maybe yes divorce could be the best in this case.

greetings

Sebastian


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## Alexandra

So here you are, finding yourself able to admit that you settled. You made a comment that she were "finishing the task." Ouch! I kind of get what you mean though, knowing many analytical, task driven people.

Have you considered that your marriage is also a task? Not that you need to "finish" it, but that you also need to work at it. Happiness isn't something that gets delivered to us wrapped neatly in a box. Yeah, okay, the chemistry should be there as well.

Consider investing some time into a marriage enrichment course or book. Five Love Languages might work, but there are many others.


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## MEM2020

What if I am utterly confused. So the big missing piece is the passion. I get that. I also agree it is important. Very important. The culmination of passion is SEX. And you make it clear that sexually she makes little/no effort to please you. 

So you talked about how she chased you and married you. But then you talk about how sexually she ignored your needs. WHY did you let her do that? Seriously you had some years before you had kids. Why did you not assert yourself since that was such a core part of the weakest part of your marriage? 

If I raised something important to my wife and she turned her back on me that would DEFINITELY not fly. And I would not do that to her. And yet you refer to that being your wife's normal behavior - turn her back on you and ignore you. WHY have you allowed that? 







Alexandra said:


> So here you are, finding yourself able to admit that you settled. You made a comment that she were "finishing the task." Ouch! I kind of get what you mean though, knowing many analytical, task driven people.
> 
> Have you considered that your marriage is also a task? Not that you need to "finish" it, but that you also need to work at it. Happiness isn't something that gets delivered to us wrapped neatly in a box. Yeah, okay, the chemistry should be there as well.
> 
> Consider investing some time into a marriage enrichment course or book. Five Love Languages might work, but there are many others.


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## Nekko

You say you 'weren't in love' ...well...aside from the courtship period where all of the emotional stuff comes from excitement (not knowing if the person likes you etc...), after a while love becomes a choice for all of us. So...again...what is it that you'd like to feel? 

Once upon a time people married out of obligation and actually ended up loving eachother after doing stuff together...other people marry madly in love and hate eachother after 2 years. Doesn't matter how you started out. Just figure out what you'd like to feel (and you aren't) and what exactly is missing in your wife that you'd like.

Also note...if you want your wife to be passionate and 'devour' you...this isn't gunna happen just because you exist...you have to make her feel like that. Sure, this goes both ways, and you may feel like you are entitled to get that treatment from her to feel passionate, but one has got to start. 

I'm not saying you should stay in the marriage if you hate it..but if you leave, you'd better be damn sure it's what you want and that you can't have passion in the marriage you are in. Because if the lack of passion is partly due to you...it will follow you around in the next marriage as welll. So good luck


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## Mittens

To the OP,
Pardon me for saying so, but have you talked to HER about it?
Have you considered councilling on your own, or with your wife?
It may even just help you sort your thoughts out.
If things are as dire as described, what is the worst thing that could happen? 6 months from now you are in the same position, but at least you would have explored your options to make an educated and well thought out decision?
I realize it may not be the easiest of conversations by any means, but after being with your wife for 10 years, don't you think she kind of has a right to know what's going through your head?
Not to mention I would think after 10 years you would have at least
became good friends, and from the sounds of it right now you need all the support, care, and friends you've got.
Good Luck.


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## AlexNY

outinthecold said:


> Sorry, family is a loose term.
> 
> It shouldn't be.
> 
> Fine and dandy for you grownups.
> *
> As far as the kids, they will never recover from divorce.*


Do not fool yourself. If you divorce, your "loving daughters" will spend most of their adult lives searching for something lost. They will experience a lifetime of emptiness and pain.

You caused this. You owe it to your children to suppress your feelings and be a father for 10 more years until they are adults. Who cares if you are happy or not? You have lived your life. It is their turn now. Find a way to make your relationship tolerable and keep the family together long enough for your children to grow up in a stable home.

After that, you can go search for your El Dorado.


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## magmag

I have to admit I'm in a similar situation but it's my H that feels the way you do.

He's told me that he was never really "in love" with me. I believe him to a point but I just don't understand how you can stay with someone for 16yrs, married for 10yrs and not have some sort of love for that person. 

PLEASE talk to your wife. I'm sure she's feeling it, I was feeling it before my H talked to me but didn't know what to do to fix things and then he found someone else that has what I was lacking. 

Now on top of trying to fix us, if that's possible, i'm competing with her too. 

I would definitely get yourself some counseling too.

I love my H with all my heart and would do anything for him to stay in this marriage. I know I have issues too and I really want to work on them and make this marriage work. 

I believe if you talk to your spouse and CHOOSE to love eachother and really work on things you can be the happiest person on earth. At least that's how I feel about my marriage.


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## shazil

koala49 said:


> Quite honestly I think you should go and try and find your happiness, you say you stayed with her because you didn't want to hurt her. You hurt her everyday by not giving her the freedom to go out and find a love and happiness for herself. I feel for this woman I could not imagine being in a marriage where she is unloved, not now, not ever. You should have been honest with her in the first place and moved on long before the marriage. Its not only you losing time, but she has wasted 10 years of her life with a man who doesn't love her. You don't think she knows how you feel, woman are much more intuitive to these things than men I believe, and she is probably living every day wondering when the crash is going to come for her and the children. Do it now and give this woman back her life.


i find you are very mature and sensible. i am going through the same. i also feel that lies cant keep family happy


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## shazil

i have been married for last 4 years and i am 32.it was arranged marriage. i was in lot of stress and lonely when i got married. at that time i never thought love so important. i really did not know. i thought i will go through it . every day i missed that love and passion. God knows how much i tried not to hurt my wife. i did my best but still she complaint all the time that i dont love her and give her time. i killed my heart to be with her . the i had children . i just could not assimilate the thought of being away from my children. i struggled and struggled every day. just to keep my family intact. i felt guilt of marrying my wife , so i always told her that i love her when she asked but deep in my heart she knew that i do not. i thought about telling her the truth but i felt that it will break the marriage . i hate my heart. you know i tried so much . took professional counseling to get through this misery. as time passes i feel that my depression will destroy me. i am scared my children( one is 4 years and other 2 months) will soon sense my depression. they will hate me for not loving there mother. how can a person who has never loved that person for a single day?

i fel pity for my wife and hold myself guilty that why did i marry a girl out of my loneliness . sometimes i feel that i should repent by barring on. my guilt is killing me. i have been asking myself the same question since one year that should i choose myself or my children and never could decide. 

i crave for love. i cry every day. i have never had fight with my wife. i never want to hurt anyone . i always concede to her opinion and wish as i feel that i am responsible for her situation.

i just can not tame my heart. 
i have a successful business but i am loosing the courage and will to work. 
i feel that my children will never forgive me once they grow up even if i stay in marriage just for them.

i am so depressed. i am gloomy all the time.
i try many things like movies and hang out with friends and alcohol to kill time.
by killing time i am just killing myself. i cry every day alone.
the worst thing is that when she asks me that i love her i say i do . that kills me inside . my sadness is taking its toll on my health. 
my children are my responsability . how can i be so selfish?i am so confused. its been 4 years and i am still struggling. i now feel i am loosing the battle. my heart sinks all the time. anything romantic brings tear to my eyes. i feel suffocated all the time.i drink every night . 
i have tried so much to go along my life an accept it as my fate but i can not find contentment. 
i know passion dies away with time. but i never had one moment of love or passion. i feel so unlucky.


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## turnera

shazil, why don't you copy and paste your comment into a new thread, just for you? That way, people will know you are looking for advice and help you!


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## funlovingdad

Dannyboy, my wife told me last year she wasn't happy. Since then, in our conversations, she has also told me she may have settled for me. This is a knife to the heart. If you tell your wife that, see how she reacts. I hope she slaps you.

My wife and I met in high school and dated on and off through college. After she graduated, she moved to the city I was living in and "dragged" me to the ring shop. After we looked at rings, I was more excited about getting married because I know how happy she was about it (but I also knew I was ready to commit). Shortly after we got married, she became pregnant. I was nervous because I wasn't working at the time and I think she thought I was nervous that we were going to have kids. Not true. I always wanted kids but I was worried I wasn't ready to provide for them yet. 

So now she makes it sound like she forced me to marry her and have kids. I don't feel that way. Maybe I needed a little convincing but if I didn't want to do either of these things, I wouldn't have. We now have the two most wonderful children that are our pride and joy. I thought things were going fine until she told me about her feelings. 

After she told me, I started to evaluate myself and realized I was not the best dad but I did what I could. My dad worked in a different city during the week so I only saw him on the weekends while growing up. Maybe that contributed to the way I was acting as a father. I don't hate my dad because of it. He worked in a city where there was crime, etc. He kept his family in a town that was safe and had a good school system. He did it for us the same way I crawled out of my unemployment and worked hard to get a job that pays very well now. We were able to buy a house and we have two nice cars...this only a few short years after being on a program that helped us buy groceries. That is just one example of what I did for my family. While I didn't always show the emotion to them, I felt I was a good provider.

But the lack of emotion is probably what caused my wife to get to where she is. I wasn't fertilizing my marriage like I should have been. I never thought I didn't love her and I NEVER thought about leaving her. But I also didn't do everything right. In my defense, she never said anything but I can't do anything about that.

I do have proof that she has sought emotional comfort in another man at work. I found her cell log. After I confronted her about it, the calls stopped but she still works with him. There is another "friend" that worries me but my feelings may just come from the fact I found out about the first EA on my own and now I'm trying to stop another one.

Do I have the same feelings for my wife as I did when I met her? Heck no. But I love her in a different way. I love her for the two kids she gave me. I love her for not being addicted to anything. I love her parents and her siblings. All these things make me want to work this out. Right now she isn't seeing it this way and feels she can do better without me. If we didn't have kids, I would let her. It would be tough to get over her but I could do it. But since we have kids, I feel it is unfair to them for her feelings of settling to force them to grow up in a separated family and also not allow me to see them every day, which would tear me apart. We don't fight in front of the kids so for all they know, everything is fine. We need to work on us but do it behind the scenes.

So do what you have to do to make it work. Go see a counselor. Stop talking to the other girl that may have triggered your feelings (which this really sounds like). Force yourself to walk up to your wife and hug her and say I love you. See how you feel after that and get back to us.

Good luck. No one ever said this was easy. But your decisions now affect 3 other people too so you would have to live with that.


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## shazil

turnera said:


> shazil, why don't you copy and paste your comment into a new thread, just for you? That way, people will know you are looking for advice and help you!


thanks. ill do that


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## gambleoscar

Dannyboy

I googled "i don't think I ever loved my spouse", and found this forum. Your situation is so much like mine (and we are not alone, there are others). I just wondered how your life is going. Are you on a path or still at the fork in the road?

It seems that there are 2 opinions on the subject, there is no middle ground on what people think about the importance of true love in a marriage. I think that without the initial chemistry (chemistry is not a choice!), there is nothing real to build on. 

"Fake it till you make it", :scratchhead: that's a surefire way to delay the inevitable!


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## bigfamily

Marriage can become a routine. Try having some alone time with her, may be a weekend get away. Spend some time together, may be it will rekindle some feelings if there were any.


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## Nekko

gambleoscar said:


> "Fake it till you make it", :scratchhead: that's a surefire way to delay the inevitable!


God no. You don't fake it. You objectively re-analize the situation and person. Maybe you've been forced to marry the person and deep down got used to seeing the person as forced upon you. (as in the case of arranged marriages sometimes). That resentment (not being able to chose) is enough to kill any form of love for that person, specially if you don't realize you're feeling so bitter about it. This is just an example. It's good to try figure out why exactly you don't like/love the person next to you then work from there. If the person just isn't what you want in a spouse then sure, divorce is the best option.


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## daisykay

Wow! I never thought it possible that someone else out there was in the same situation as me. I have been married to my husband for 5 years now, and we have two daughters. I don't know if I have ever really loved my husband. We started dating, mainly becuase we were caught fooling around and everything else just happened, and things just went on with out me really knowing what was going on, and I never had it in me to stop. It was a complete shock when he proposed and it was in the middle of an international airport with hundreds of people watching, so.... Then 4 months before we got married he told me that he had been cheating on me our whole relationship, ya, never trust him again. Lately I have been suffering from a depression and I feel that his actions, and what not, put me here (well had a hand in putting me here). He is a very needy person, and is always begging for love and attention, which is pushing me further and further away. I don't have any spark in my for him, and I don't think I ever did. There is nothing at all when we kiss, and I actually don't kiss him, I don't like to. Sex is so not fun. It is basically forced sex, he knows I don't want to ahve sex with him, but he says I have duties to fulfil. 

I am glad to hear your situation is similar, but sorry to hear your married life has been unhappy like a marriage should be.


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## turnera

daisy, if you're that unhappy, you don't have to stay.


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## daisykay

Hi Turnera. that is easier said than done. I am trying to figure out how to leave. But that would leave him with the brand new house to pay for, which he wouldn't be able to, me homeless and unable to afford something on my own, and him a wreck. I just can't figure it out. I can't just pick up my stuff and leave, I have a lot of stufff, ha!


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## turnera

Then sell it.

You're making excuses. Either you want him or you don't.


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## daisykay

Nothing can happen over night, as much as I would like it too. I know I am making excuses, but I can't find the courage to sit him down and talk to him. I am a weak person and I start bawling even when I think about confronting someone.


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## 63Vino

What if I never loved my wife?

Dont worry .... I loved her.

long time too


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## turnera

daisykay said:


> Nothing can happen over night, as much as I would like it too. I know I am making excuses, but I can't find the courage to sit him down and talk to him. I am a weak person and I start bawling even when I think about confronting someone.


 Write him a letter.


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## daisykay

You know, I have honestly thought about that so many times, but I thought it was being high schoolish and a chicken to write him a letter. Maybe. Thanks, I am glad you said that.


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## shazil

daisykay said:


> Hi Turnera. that is easier said than done. I am trying to figure out how to leave. But that would leave him with the brand new house to pay for, which he wouldn't be able to, me homeless and unable to afford something on my own, and him a wreck. I just can't figure it out. I can't just pick up my stuff and leave, I have a lot of stufff, ha!


i totally understand . finances are one of the biggest realities of life.its not that easy to just split and damn tough when kids are involved.
i am in the same situation from day one of my marriage and a week back i have sat down with my wife and said it all. i feel much better now. in my country, once you get married and have kids then men have less than 5 percent chance of getting new life partner and the women have less than 1 percent. we have just decided to live together for sake of kids as we thought living alone separately, and kids living with a single mother is not better than living togeteher as two people. i mean just as parents of the kids . itys is miserable and we are depressed but we think that just maybe with passage of time , the sadness and depression will fade and we will adopt to our new lifestyle. at the moment i dont have sexuall craving high enough as to be considered unsuppressable. i am managing it. and i hope she will also. 
the point id opening up and being honest . honesty in relationship really helps.at least both partners are on the same ship and aware of the real situation, until then one lives the life of lies ....


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## romanticatheart

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. I just read this off the web, and just had to respond.

There are several things I have learned about this situation, either when its the wife or husband that is in it, that I think needs to be restated for clarity read by those on both sides: both the spouse that says what the OP says, and the spouse that wonders what to do next in response.

Don't believe the line "I never loved you" or "I never was in-love with you" - this is only an excuse to reinvent history in order to avoid taking responsibility for the guilt of taking a hold of a fantasy.

When someone says this to you, the problem is with them (it is an act of self-justification which is itself from the root of selfishness which has grown like a cancer by the fuel of the acceptance of an unfulfilled fantasy).

The truth is that you can't compete with a fantasy. No one can, not even the person holding the fantasy. They need to know it, and you need to know it, and there may even be a time that comes when they may even need to know that you know it too. 

For an example, for you bible-types, bear in mind that even God told the Israelites the reality of pursuing the fantasy of other gods. He laid out the consequences and didn't stand in their way of their decision. He didn't stand in their way. This is the hardest for us mortals to accept with someone we love, but it is the only viable option we have. Sometimes letting go is the best way to see them turn around. This is true in all relationships. In the end though, it's their decision to continue living in a fantasy.

The harsh truth is that like all fantasies, they are never real or will ever become real, and if the fantasy is the standard by which they judge and even accept reality, then they will forever be disappointed because _no one_ can compete with a fantasy.

The fix is simple for those wondering:
love is a choice ... a CHOICE.

Even butterfly love - "chemistry" - is a choice based on what one determines is attractive to them - many times beforehand, but not always. Sometimes it's just a decision to choose what is "different" for the sake of...well...difference. And this decision can be made in an instant of time. Yet this choice is in itself a fantasy - which the more detailed/unreal it is, the more of a fantasy it becomes.

Often times this is caused by the spouse who was afraid of standing up for what they wanted early on, and now realizes what they want isn't something they have now. The majority of the time it's a loss of self-respect that starts the ball rolling. (Actually I think this is true in all cases). As with all self-respect/confidence/pride issues, it can only be fixed by the affected individual themselves ultimately. They have to find their own self-respect within themselves. Many times they have simply forgotten who they are (and what they want) and are looking for "it" - ie themselves - again. They need space, but like any child needing space but whose choices are destructive, boundaries have to be set. If you do this, then this will happen...

A person has to have the freedom within the boundaries to discover who they are, if they are ever to find their self-respect. One of these desires lost is the curiosity of being "in-love" - but what is "in-love?"

I am by no means a psychologist, but I know enough about relationships to understand that the "in-love" emotion is kindled when a choice of attraction is suddenly made real and alive in a real-life circumstance - of meeting someone new who fits the initial description and parameters of a certain fantasy. The "in-love" emotion is the euphoria that occurs when the mind has tricked itself into thinking that the fantasy has truly become reality or has a chance to become reality. The deception is that reality always later sets in, since nothing can ever truly compete with a fantasy, since the fantasy itself is the standard.

I've seen people married to themselves. I've seen people married to money. I've seen people married to lots of things, but the worst thing to see if someone married to a fantasy.

How then is certain disappointment and disillusionment avoided before reality "sets in?" The only fix is in changing the fantasy. One has to choose to do this though. One can't be made to do it. By realizing that one has a choice to make, to either modify the fantasy (by choosing to love what is or what still could positively be). The only other choice is to _continue_ choosing to not love (because if you're asking yourself this question, then you never really made the choice to love in the first place, did you? You know what, you can still make that choice. Today. And when you do it, will be the first day of the most fulfilling days of your life.) The choice to not love, in a marriage, is to take the selfish (albeit passive) road which reveals itself in telling yourself excuses such as "I never loved" - a lie which will make you feel better about not making the choice to love in the next place, and thus you will _continue_ to "make do" until another self-deceptive case of "fantasy becoming reality" comes along. At this point, such a person is forced into asking the question again of "do I love this person?" - again further evidence that one has not made the choice to love.

Yes friends, love is a choice, followed by many verbs.

After reading this, I hope your marriage finds stronger footing this post forward - and may you make the choice of true strength: of choosing to love and remaking your fantasy of what you want in a spouse...to be the very spouse you have this very day.

The cycle is only broken when one chooses to love for choice alone.

This is why some people have only one marriage and make it married until death, others will have three marriages and make it on the third one, and others go through five or more marriages and give up and never get married again.

As someone once said "if someone was married five times, and is now divorced, chances are the main problem wasn't with each of their former spouses."

And the answer is that the main problem is that person still continues to live in the false expectation that fantasy will become somehow become reality "someday" if they only continue searching the other side of the fence.

Someone once said "reality is what you make of it." But that's not true. Instead, your "fantasy is what you make of it." It's your fantasy - your detailed choices about what you want - that if it remains an unchanging standard for you, then reality will always disappoint you as it eludes you forever - and it will always elude you until you make that choice to love the best of what you have before you.


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## Ayrun

I'm gonna disagree because my soon-to-be wife is probably the opposite of what I thought was attractive in a lady. But when I met her it wasn't just like fireworks, it was like an explosion. Like a Hey buddy pay attention now! Thing. Impossible to describe if you've never felt it. All I know is I never felt that for anyone else, you can't create it.


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## wild_irish_rose

My husband never loved me - he only married me because he couldn't have the woman he did love. Of course I didn't find this out until over a decade into the marriage when she became available and he almost immediately left me and went back to her. Turns out they were having an on-again, off-again affair the entire duration of our marriage. But you are right it was a choice - he could have chosen to get over her and put more effort into his life with me - or he could have done what probably would have been the "truly" right thing in the situation and broken it off with me before we even married, even though it would have hurt me then, it hurt me a lot more after 12 years of marriage. But he continues to justify leaving me for her with his belief that "true love" was more important than 12 years of marriage and a kid together.


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## tryinhard999

All you're doing is finding reasons to validate grass-is-greener feelings. Whether you believe it or not, you have a bond to your wife. I don't know how strong it is, but it's likely stronger than you realize. A bond like this is at the core of love, rather than romance and passion.

Romance is something you choose to give to your wife, sometimes even when you don't feel loving feelings. I'm sure you haven't done that, I know I didn't back when I was married and I regret it. You get out what you put in. This will be true in your marriage or, if you divorce, in every single relationship in your future.

Don't **** up without really looking at yourself and your own motivations here. Fixing things might be hard, but sometimes (usually IMO), it's the right thing to do.


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## WhiteRabbit

My H never loved me...he started out being in lust with me(younger woman,ridiculously high sex drive). being in lust with me never went away but he began trying to make subtle changes to me to put me in a box that was manageable for him. He fell in love with the girl in the box...he never fell in love with me as my true self. 

Looking back, I wish he'd had the courage to just tell me he couldn't love me for who I was. I wish he'd been man enough to tell me all the things I'd be expected to change about myself in order to be loved by him. 

You're the only person who knows whether or not you ever really loved your wife or not. Don't let the allure of freedom or the possibility of being with someone else taint your memory of your feelings for your wife. Really sit and remember things as they were ...maybe you'll realize you did love her..and if you loved her back then, you probably love her now.


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## SurpriseMyself

sisters359 said:


> Geez, most of the messed up kids I knew growing up came from so-called "intact" families, for goodness sake! Anyway, I hope you find an answer that brings you peace. Best of luck.



:iagree: I've seen that a number of times and most of my siblings are pretty messed up b/c of it. Myself included. Sorry to hijack the thread, but just wanted to say that a bad marriage, even one where the parents don't argue in front of the kids, still negatively affects the family. It did mine.


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## LilaGrace111

Romantic love is not the only important thing in life. It is wonderful if you are one of the lucky ones who marries someone who gives them butterflies and makes their heart thump - but this isn´t all there is. There is also friendship, family, companionship, children and the joy they give you. Just remmeber if you do decide to stay, you might feel you are missing something, but remember all the things you DO have. living with divorce where children are involved is a very hard thing - especially as the father, the mother can make life very difficult for you.

I would advise talking to her and finding out if she feels the same. Many women give "love" to a man without ever really feeling in love with them. she may have the same frustrations, and with some counselling, you might find you could FALL in love. It is all about being close.

I feel bad for you. Life is a set of difficult choices. it´s just the grass isn´t always greener. finding the kind of love you are talking about does not always happen for everyone.


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## Cross

It's the ladder theory.

A guy saying 'he never loved her' is usually full of it. It's simply an excuse to validate bad behavior, or to move on from a taxing and tough relationship to something fresh and exciting, and the next girl he can spend time with and fall for, but suddenly realize he didn't really love either.

If one wants to dump their long term girl for some younger chick or old flame, then the guy should man up and admit that's what they want, and not that 'I never loved her' BS. That's just a cheap cop out.


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## Photogwest

Well I knew there were probably people out there like me, but I never met one in person. What did we do before the Internet? 

I feel for the OP and have a somewhat similar situation. I'm younger (late 20's) and married with a preschool-aged daughter. We've been married 5 years and if I gave you the months you could do the math - my daughter was conceived before the marriage and was the driving force to get married. In point of fact, I had finally reached the point of deciding to break up our relationship when we found out she was pregnant. I had suggested that maybe we should put her up for adoption considering our relationship issues and make a clean break (abortion was not considered for personal/philosophical reasons). She refused and I thought that if we didn't marry I may not be as integral to my daughter's upbringing as I wanted to be. So we eloped a few months later. (In hindsight, I can't imagine not having our beautiful daughter. I love her very much)

I really tried for the first few years. My wife knew - even while we were dating - that I didn't consider us compatible...as in life-long compatible. It didn't help that she lost her father as a young teen and had boy issues. She really liked me and I wasn't emotionally mature enough to say no, even when I didn't have such strong feelings in return. No matter how hard I've tried to convince her that I love her and would remain faithful to her, it didn't really work. She's harbored resentment and mistrust, and I've gradually acquired a kind of emotional malaise due to pretending/trying to feel something that I don't. 

From the outside you wouldn't necessarily guess so much is going on internally. I have a good job, we have a beautiful happy daughter, a nice house and plenty of comforts...but I just feel empty. We both want more children (at least one more) but I feel stuck. I figure I could probably just go through the motions during this period in life...have children, raise them and go to work. But I'm so afraid of what happens when its just the two of us, in middle and old age. I want to feel something again...I'd like to be with someone that makes me a better person and really believes in me and vice versa. 

To me its not about whether marriage is about feelings or commitment...its absolutely both. But what if you have all of one and none of the other? It seems like a lose-lose to me. I don't have any delusions of grandeur when it comes to divorce. I'm very pro-marriage myself and no one in our circle of friends would support me in a decision to divorce. I would be just as alone, if not more, than I_ feel_ now. The prospect of divorce and the prospect of living with someone I never loved for life both scare me. Something has to give, but when and how I don't know...I don't even know where to start.


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## england 75

It's not uncommon to not love the person you marry, one of my friends married out of security and sadly 8 years down the line it all fell apart. No one wins, especially the kids... but ultimately, there are no hard written rules on life, love etc... you just have to be true to yourself and your partner. No matter how much I loved someone I would hate the thought that they were only with me out of duty!


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## Stonewall

Wow I couldn't imagine a day without my wife she is my heart and soul. But I also couldn't imagine your situation either.

How long do think you have had this feeling?


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## Tiqqun

Photogwest: I wanted to say, as someone who has been in the same position (and still is), don't have more children. That loneliness and hollowness you feel now only intensifies as they get older and you feel even more trapped, confused, and guilty. Of course you love your daughter and if you have another child, you'll love him or her just as much. That doesn't make things any easier or better for you and your wife. In fact, it may make things worse if you factor in the charade you act out every day with the ordinary stresses of family life.

Not only that but when kids start becoming more attentive to the world around them, they'll start to notice things aren't right in your marriage. Unfortunately for me, I was one of those kids. My parents were in a loveless marriage most of my life and I have had two just like me. Unlike your friends, your kids see the public you and the private you everyday. They'll notice the masks you both wear in your marriage, the ones you think no one sees, and they'll point them out! So before you go about making this any more complex than it already is, think about how this might work out for the kids. 

I'd half-believed those dire warnings about kids from "broken homes," but as I see my kids develop, I notice that they model behaviour they see at home. If, like me, you've been keeping a false harmony, a harmony that wouldn't exist if you cared about your wife as you should, you'll understand that they're learning from a broken model.


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## ladybird

You say you never loved your wife to begin with.. Why marry someone whom you don't love? You didn't want to hurt her feeling by breaking it off before marriage... That just does not make any sense to me at all? I am not judging i just dont understand.

10 years is along time to be with someone who you have no feelings for.

If you really do feel this way about her then your only option is to tell her the truth. She needs to know.. You both can decide what to do after you tell her.


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## blindmice

Two people go on a honeymoon. One comes back. 

It is really scary that you had children with a person you don't even love. 

Your self-centered post totally sounds like those men who kill their wives on the honeymoon. 

How do marry someone you don't love?

You sound like a total TAKER. Perhaps a sociopath?

Leave her for HER sake. You are not all THAT. Apparently you THINK you are something special that she can't live without and you would be sparing her to stay. LOSER leave. 

I can't understand why NO ONE else is saying so.

YOU sound like such an immature CREEP. Maybe some 13 yr old will passionately LOOOOVE you.


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## blindmice

Hi, I have no interest in you. Let's create babies together. Let's be tied to each other financially for our children's sake for the next 18-25 years. 

BTW you are boring and I feel like I am better than you. Yet I'm a GOOD guy so I'll hang out with you for YOUR sake. You should feel SO lucky. 

My sympathy to your children for having SUCH a LOSER father. Thank you for reminding me to appreciate what GOOD MAN my Father IS.


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## Coffee Amore

Calm down. This thread is over 2 years old. I doubt the original poster is even around anymore.


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