# Once there's cheating....it should be over!



## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I know there are many many threads about cheating on here and a lot of them talk about reconciliation and forgiveness, and I personally know of two couples that have had infidelity in their marriages and then decided to stay together and work on it. But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable. If you would be willing to go out and cheat on me what's next............killing me in my sleep?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

So you feel because someone is capable of cheating,they're also capable of murder?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

some share your opinion some do not, I actually felt the way you did but after it happened I reconciled instead, so ultimately you won't know unless it happens (which I hope it never does)

since you don't have this issue in your life I wonder as to why you felt compelled to post this?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> since you don't have this issue in your life I wonder as to why you felt compelled to post this?


That's his MO.Post something inflammatory and super opinionated then argue with anyone who disagrees.


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## Nujabes (May 16, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> So you feel because someone is capable of cheating,they're also capable of murder?


I think you already know but just for reassurance it a resemblance of being ultimately betrayed as the context for murder it is one of the ultimate crime known to man. I think the word is analogy? :scratchhead:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

To each, their own relationship.

Some folks can work it out post-infidelity, some can't. 

I don't begrudge a couple that does work it out because not every relationship is the same.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

How the hell do you know how you would react when it hasnt happened to you? That is strong statment, kind of when people say NEVER, well never say never because you dont know how you will react.

I thank god my H didnt feel the way you do. After my EA, and I woke up from the fog I was so thankful to him for giving us a chance. Because of my EA, our marriage is so much stronger and better than it has ever been. Its almost like the EA actually saved us. We were in such a bad place prior to that. 

In my experience it is the people that say Never that actually do.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Nujabes said:


> I think you already know but just for reassurance it a resemblance of being ultimately betrayed as the context for murder it is one of the ultimate crime known to man. I think the word is analogy? :scratchhead:


wow really?!


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## Nujabes (May 16, 2013)

LoriC said:


> How the hell do you know how you would react when it hasnt happened to you? That is strong statment, kind of when people say NEVER, well never say never because you dont know how you will react.
> 
> I thank god my H didnt feel the way you do. After my EA, and I woke up from the fog I was so thankful to him for giving us a chance. Because of my EA, our marriage is so much stronger and better than it has ever been. Its almost like the EA actually saved us. We were in such a bad place prior to that.
> 
> In my experience it is the people that say Never that actually do.


I don't think it was the EA that improved your relationship as I personally think it was the guilt and reasons that makes the light open the way and makes everything stronger. Oh I forgot to mention to thank your H for sticking around that long as well.


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## Nujabes (May 16, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> wow really?!


I so totally knew something like that would come up.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Nujabes said:


> I don't think it was the EA that improved your relationship as I personally think it was the guilt and reasons that makes the light open the way and makes everything stronger. Oh I forgot to mention to thank your H for sticking around that long as well.


It was because of the EA that if forced us to deal with an already failing marriage and decide if we were going to D or save it. If the EA never happened nothing would have changed. We barely even spoke with eachother, completely sexless and lived as roommates. I barely even hid the EA because I was sure he didnt care anyway. Boy was I wrong. I never felt guilty at the time it was happening. Guilt didnt surface until pretty recently when things with us were already back on track. 

Confused about why you want me to thank my H for sticking around?


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## jaded0731 (Mar 23, 2013)

LoriC said:


> I thank god my H didnt feel the way you do. After my EA, and I woke up from the fog I was so thankful to him for giving us a chance. Because of my EA, our marriage is so much stronger and better than it has ever been. *Its almost like the EA actually saved us. * We were in such a bad place prior to that.


This may not have been your intent, but it sounds a lot like justification for the EA. The marriage did not get stronger because of the EA. It got stronger because you decided to work on things afterward.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Well, f'ng yay for you. You wouldn't stick around. Great.

For me, I try not to be so short sighted.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

jaded0731 said:


> This may not have been your intent, but it sounds a lot like justification for the EA. The marriage did not get stronger because of the EA. It got stronger because you decided to work on things afterward.



No, not justifying it at all. I knew the wording would get me in trouble, lol. There was no excuse for having the EA, I am a married woman. I was in such a bad place at that time, I know why it happened but I can see now how wrong it was. I will never justify it.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Everybody makes their choices and has to live with them. As in, THEY have to live with them, not me. And their choices are none of my business.

I haven't had to make this choice. I pray I never do, because even though I can't say for sure what I'd do, I think such a revelation would easily push my troubled marriage over a cliff, strapped to a rocket sled.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

So, ummm...OP - have you dealt with infidelity in your marriage?


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## Nujabes (May 16, 2013)

LoriC said:


> It was because of the EA that if forced us to deal with an already failing marriage and decide if we were going to D or save it. If the EA never happened nothing would have changed. We barely even spoke with eachother, completely sexless and lived as roommates. I barely even hid the EA because I was sure he didnt care anyway. Boy was I wrong. I never felt guilty at the time it was happening. Guilt didnt surface until pretty recently when things with us were already back on track.
> 
> Confused about why you want me to thank my H for sticking around?


You've agreed that you've felt guilt that's one point for me 
Whether that's pre, during, or post the EA.

Guilt is one way of knowing that you've done wrong and there are consequences to be made, which therefore makes us rolling back onto our old lovers life OR sometimes we just move on and understand our mistakes... But I think you know that. 

I do got a problem with you saying that with the EA the relationship wouldn't have been stronger. Well in that case heck why don't everyone in a relationship have an EA and see how it turns out... That's a pretty big leap.

Besides if you guys aren't doing anything productive with each other then how about start doing something productive with each other? It's rather easier to fix the problem at hand than find problem elsewhere and add it in.

Didn't people teach you that when there's drama don't bring in more drama?

Anyways, thank your husband for not leaving you in the first place and decided to stick around and wait for you to realize you got no one else to run to but him... Well except your family... You got your family right?... Dang that guilt right there...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> some share your opinion some do not, I actually felt the way you did but after it happened I reconciled instead, so ultimately you won't know unless it happens (which I hope it never does)


Same here. I divorced my ex wife because she cheated on me, and was totally unremorseful. So I thought I would never, ever go thru this again, and if I get married again, first sign of cheating and I'm gone. Then I got married again, she knew about my ex wife and promised she would never do something like that to me.

Well, 22 years later....... 

It took me 8 months to decide whether I wanted R or not, and I watched her during those months to see if she was truly remorseful or just talking the talk. But she earned her shot at R. 

You really don't know until it happens. 

For some, infidelity is a total deal breaker, and that's alright. *R is not for everyone.*


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Cee Paul said:


> I know there are many many threads about cheating on here and a lot of them talk about reconciliation and forgiveness, and I personally know of two couples that have had infidelity in their marriages and then decided to stay together and work on it. But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable. If you would be willing to go out and cheat on me what's next............killing me in my sleep?


You know two couples that have had infidelity, how many couples do you know that've murdered their partner in his/her sleep? I'm curious...


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Same here. I divorced my ex wife because she cheated on me, and was totally unremorseful. So I thought I would never, ever go thru this again, and if I get married again, first sign of cheating and I'm gone. Then I got married again, she knew about my ex wife and promised she would never do something like that to me.
> 
> Well, 22 years later.......
> 
> ...


Pretty much the same here, man. My ex-wife cheated on me and we tried to reconcile. Less than a year later I found her at the bar with the guy...arm draped over his shoulders. I left my ring on the bar and never looked back. I swore I would never let that happen again.

Until Dday last year.

Ya know, people can say all kinds of sh-t that they would do in a situation. Truth is, you never really know how you're gonna react. "Oh, if I had a gun and that guy came into the theatre..." "Oh, if my spouse cheated on me I would..."

Being a big shot in your head means nothing.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

Nujabes said:


> You've agreed that you've felt guilt that's one point for me
> Whether that's pre, during, or post the EA.
> 
> Guilt is one way of knowing that you've done wrong and there are consequences to be made, which therefore makes us rolling back onto our old lovers life OR sometimes we just move on and understand our mistakes... But I think you know that.
> ...


There always has to be one that will judge. You dont know me, or my H. And you certainly dont know all the details and I am going to guess you dont really care to. You have already judged. 

No need to respond. We are done here.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I totally get the OP's comment about infidelity and murder.

It really does feel like death to be cheated upon. The emotional pain is enormous and all-consuming. I think he used the knife in the back comment to illustrate just how awful it feels to be cheated upon.

That said, I stuck it out for a very long time. And that was a huge mistake.

I gave my disturbed ex far too many changes to reconcile properly.

Her response? To go to deep cover and cheat for many years.

Then at some vague moment in time she stopped and kept her sordid affair secret for many more years. Only revealing it to me when I bluffed her.

So looking back on literally the last two decades from my perspective i should have booted her out when she fessed up to a one-time thing. She wasn't worth the trouble.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I know there are many many threads about cheating on here and a lot of them talk about reconciliation and forgiveness, and I personally know of two couples that have had infidelity in their marriages and then decided to stay together and work on it. But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable. If you would be willing to go out and cheat on me what's next............killing me in my sleep?


But you are not factoring in the obvious which is this:

True. Cheating kills the marriage (as it was). The clock stops on the marriage. It's over.

Then the couple does actually have a choice/decision to make. Whether to end it completely by D, or whether to begin a new relationship with each other by R. If the couple decides to D, then all bets are off and the marriage has ended because of the A. On the other hand, if the couple decides to R, they build a new foundation upon which to continue. It's difficult. It has it's setbacks, but if the WS is truly sorry, loves his/her spouse, and is committed to a "new" beginning, then it may just work out. Only time (and love) will tell.

It's purely up to the couple to decide.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

It's a tough question to answer. I have a thread here that tells my story. Basically, found out about an EA. Asked, pleaded for the truth, did it go further? No, no, no. Well, dday2 proved otherwise. Now I question everything she says. The betrayal is agonizing. Many posters feel that I should file now, and they may be right. We're a month out from dday1, and I'm still trying to figure out what to do. I don't think it's a situation you can understand until you're in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nujabes (May 16, 2013)

LoriC said:


> There always has to be one that will judge. You dont know me, or my H. And you certainly dont know all the details and I am going to guess you dont really care to. You have already judged.
> 
> No need to respond. We are done here.


Huh that's funny. I put a whole sentence saying that "I wasn't in your shoes so how would I know" but deleted it and went and post the one I did previously because I thought if I at least attempt to explain everything in a reasonable and logical format in a fair light I would at least have something to offer for you to absorb but I guess not.

Please forgive me if I come off judgmental, as I stated I'm just trying to fair in a logical format.

Oh please forgive this response as well... I couldn't resist the urge to say something. It almost felt like you are hiding something.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Cee Paul bailed?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Cee Paul bailed?



1953 posts
176 threads started

11 posts per thread started, so yeah typical behavior from Paul


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

:lol:


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

LoriC said:


> How the hell do you know how you would react when it hasnt happened to you? That is strong statment, kind of when people say NEVER, well never say never because you dont know how you will react.
> 
> I thank god my H didnt feel the way you do. After my EA, and I woke up from the fog I was so thankful to him for giving us a chance. Because of my EA, our marriage is so much stronger and better than it has ever been. Its almost like the EA actually saved us. We were in such a bad place prior to that.
> 
> In my experience it is the people that say Never that actually do.


I think that's the wrong way to look at it. An affair doesn't save a marriage. The way you deal with the aftermath, the fall out....that might save your marriage (or end it).


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

From ChrisH's forum rules...


*5. No posting just to incite people or start arguments. (aka "trolls")*


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

FourtyPlus said:


> I think that's the wrong way to look at it. An affair doesn't save a marriage. The way you deal with the aftermath, the fall out....that might save your marriage (or end it).


Yes, you are right. I knew I worded that all wrong.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> Ya know, people can say all kinds of sh-t that they would do in a situation. Truth is, you never really know how you're gonna react. "Oh, if I had a gun and that guy came into the theatre..." "Oh, if my spouse cheated on me I would..."


Lot's of big talkers out there. 

What a pointless threadstart by CeePaul. Dude. Really?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

If I were a mod, I'd perma-ban everyone.. that's what I would do..


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

russell28 said:


> If I were a mod, I'd perma-ban everyone.. that's what I would do..


but keep 2 of every type of poster (one female and one male) so they can breed and restart the board


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Lori, I got what you were saying. Sometimes the affair is the catalyst for radical honesty and the airing of things that you would never have mentioned otherwise. 

In my case, I'm sure I would have rattled along, keeping silent about what I wanted/needed, until in 15 years when I snapped and just walked out the door. But the EA brought us to a pretty low place and I decided what did I have to lose by being honest. The marriage already sucked anyway.


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## sdcott (Oct 9, 2012)

I like you had always said no tolerance, he of course had the same "rule" for me. Once his cheating was exposed I hsd to truly evaluate what was important to me in the big picture. We are working together to repair the damage.
Saying such an absolute statenent is simple until life is not so simple.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Cee Paul said:


> I know there are many many threads about cheating on here and a lot of them talk about reconciliation and forgiveness, and I personally know of two couples that have had infidelity in their marriages and then decided to stay together and work on it. But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable. If you would be willing to go out and cheat on me what's next............killing me in my sleep?


I couldn't agree more. But to each their own.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

sdcott said:


> I like you had always said no tolerance, he of course had the same "rule" for me. Once his cheating was exposed I hsd to truly evaluate what was important to me in the big picture. We are working together to repair the damage.
> Saying such an absolute statenent is simple until life is not so simple.


/thread


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I do agree with CeePaul as far as “when there is infidelity, the marriage *should be* over”. It’s that “should be” where you need to adapt. My wife shouldn’t have been raped, my kid shouldn’t have been molested, my daughter shouldn’t have been deaf... but “they are”. “Should be” is an illusion and myth of how you would like it to be. I deal with *”IS”*.

Rectifying those two and finding peace and happiness within the boundaries of shattered dreams of 'what should have been' is not easy. Some of us do believe the marriage, as it was during the affairs, did end. That is over and we grieved it's loss. Now we deal with what this relationship *is* now.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Well, f'ng yay for you. You wouldn't stick around. Great.
> 
> For me, I try not to be so short sighted.


There is nothing short sighted about deciding one can't stay with a cheater, or making the decision to stay.

He said "for me" that is the right way to go. He didn't say it should be for everyone else.

He's venting, probably hurting. And for you to say the latter to him is uncalled for. Because you are also calling me short sighted because I won't stay with someone who cheated on me.

I wouldn't call you short sighted for staying. As I said, to each their own.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> some share your opinion some do not, I actually felt the way you did but after it happened I reconciled instead, so ultimately you won't know unless it happens (which I hope it never does)
> 
> since you don't have this issue in your life I wonder as to why you felt compelled to post this?


I greatly think that there are a number of people, much like myself, that just do not have the propensity for reconciliation, once the overt or covert deception is finally discovered, no matter whether it was emotional or physical in nature. It is largely the self-justifying, unremorseful deception that comes to totally kill the relationship.

I think that those who can attempt to jointly reconcile should be commended beyond measure, because in doing so, they are richly embracing a whole new set of problems and doubts in trying to "right" their relationship to way that it formerly was, with absolutely no guarantees being placed upon the table for them in trying to reclaim that former love and trust.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> There is nothing short sighted about deciding one can't stay with a cheater, or making the decision to stay.
> 
> He said "for me" that is the right way to go. He didn't say it should be for everyone else.
> 
> ...


I thought Dig was saying he left the thread, hit and run... but if he meant short sighted to say it's 100% should always leave in every case, then I'd have to agree that each situation needs to be evaluated on it's own merits, not blanket covered that every situation is black and white.. aka, you leaving, Dig staying.. neither short sighted, but it's short sighted to say that everyone should leave 100% of the time in every case.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

dusty4 said:


> He's venting, probably hurting.


Paul has not dealt with infidelity whatsoever


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> I greatly think that there are a number of people, much like myself, that just do not have the propensity for reconciliation, once the overt or covert deception is finally discovered, no matter whether it was emotional or physical in nature. It is largely the self-justifying, unremorseful deception that comes to totally kill the relationship.
> 
> I think that those who can attempt to jointly reconcile should be commended beyond measure, because in doing so, they are richly embracing a whole new set of problems and doubts in trying to "right" their relationship to way that it formerly was, with absolutely no guarantees being placed upon the table for them in trying to reclaim that former love and trust.


Just a reminder that any new relationship will also come with a new set of problems and doubts... without addressing the problems that helped the marriage to break down, any new relationship can suffer the same problems in the future. For some folks R isn't an option, because both parties aren't willing to own up and do the work involved. It's also true that some people are much more forgiving by nature than others.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

russell28 said:


> I thought Dig was saying he left the thread, hit and run... but if he meant short sighted to say it's 100% should always leave in every case, then I'd have to agree that each situation needs to be evaluated on it's own merits, not blanket covered that every situation is black and white.. aka, you leaving, Dig staying.. neither short sighted, but it's short sighted to say that everyone should leave 100% of the time in every case.


But he didn't say everyone should leave 100% of the time in every case. He said for HIM it was.

And I agree. It would be for me too. Nothing short sighted about it as I don't believe that rule is for everyone. Everyone has to decide what is best for themselves and its not short sighted to make that decision either way you go.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> Paul has not dealt with infidelity whatsoever


Well without knowing his story, and simply, just now, skimming through the threads he has started, as someone who seems to rail against such, how could he not have ever dealt with it?

But I'll digress. Still, its insulting to say that those of us who make the decision to never stay with someone that cheated are short sighted.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I know there are many many threads about cheating on here and a lot of them talk about reconciliation and forgiveness, and I personally know of two couples that have had infidelity in their marriages and then decided to stay together and work on it. But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable. If you would be willing to go out and cheat on me what's next............killing me in my sleep?


I'm with you. I posted my opinion on this previously in another thread, but I'll post it again for you:



> I’ll give you my point of view as an (Italian American) male.
> 
> If my wife were in an emotional affair, depending how deep she was in it, I could get over the infidelity. I would fight for her if I can get her over it in a reasonable amount of time (sorry to sound so clinical). However, if I need to fight tooth and nail to win her back and there is the fighting I often hear about here, the he can have her. You see, I’m not just one choice she can make any time she wants. The only time I was a choice for her was when I asked her to marry me, after that she’s with me or gone. Saying that, I could get over an emotional affair.
> 
> ...


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I'm with you. I posted my opinion on this previously in another thread, but I'll post it again for you:


" and not experiencing the same pain and humiliation as penance. "

In many cases they would be experiencing different pain, humiliation, remorse, guilt, shame etc.. Granted it's self inflicted and might not be as horrific as the pain the BS is suffering, but it's something to consider. Your point about who you are is spot on... some people are more forgiving by nature than others, and each case is unique.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I can't imagine staying if my wife cheated on me, physically. It would completely shatter my image of who I fundamentally believe her to be. I've told me wife that if it happens, I'm gone.

On the other hand I can not imagine living without this woman in my life.

Also if my wife cheated I believe it would be because of some deep dysfunction in our marriage, in me, and/or in her. So I would want to understand that.

All things considered? Despite what I told my wife I would really need to be in the situation to ascertain if my instinct to split would really be followed through. Maybe our love story is strong enough for me to move beyond even that?

I pray I never find out.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Ahh, but Middleman, Cee Paul said ANY cheating, not just physical. You said you could forgive EA, but not PA. Cee Paul didn't make a distinction. He said any infidelity.

@dusty4, Cee Paul hasn't dealt with infidelity...at least, not that he has posted. He has other issues with his wife... but not infidelity.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

dusty4 said:


> Well without knowing his story, and simply, just now, skimming through the threads he has started, as someone who seems to rail against such, how could he not have ever dealt with it?
> 
> But I'll digress. Still, its insulting to say that those of us who make the decision to never stay with someone that cheated are short sighted.


I wont speak for Dig, I do think he views D a valid option and I think he was stating that you won't truly know what you'll do until you're in the position. If anything his ire was more directed at the fact that Paul likes to start up threads all the time, make some sort of strong opinion and bail on the thread.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

dusty4 said:


> There is nothing short sighted about deciding one can't stay with a cheater, or making the decision to stay.
> 
> He said "for me" that is the right way to go. He didn't say it should be for everyone else.
> 
> ...



Ummm...I said "for me"...

Funny how ya's read into sh-t when you think it's going your way.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

jaquen said:


> I can't imagine staying if my wife cheated on me, physically. It would completely shatter my image of who I fundamentally believe her to be. I've told me wife that if it happens, I'm gone.
> 
> *This is what I thought.. how I thought I felt...*
> 
> ...


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Nujabes said:


> I do got a problem with you saying that with the EA the relationship wouldn't have been stronger. Well in that case heck why don't everyone in a relationship have an EA and see how it turns out... That's a pretty big leap.


She wasn't talking about "everyone's" relationship. She was talking about her own. Her marriage was basically dead, and the emotional affair, and it's resulting aftermath, served as an electrical shock to revive it. It's a pretty clear cut statement.

What worked for HER marriage really has nothing to do with your marriage, or anyone else's. I'm confused as to why you're riding her about how she views her own marriage. You're not in it, so why does it matter so much to you that she feels an EA ultimately helped save and improve her marriage?


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Ummm...I said "for me"...
> 
> Funny how ya's read into sh-t when you think it's going your way.


Look, I'm not wanting to start a fight with you, but saying "for me" when saying he wouldn't stay with a cheater is different from you saying "for me" you wouldn't be short sighted which is a direct insult. You called him, as well as the rest of us that hold this view for ouselves, short sighted.

Which is an insult, but I suppose could be much worse.

Cee, me, and a few others here agree that we wouldn't stay with someone that cheated. Thats not short sighted. That is our preference.

You hold a different view, and thats fine. You chose a different path and I hope that is working out for you and wish you the best. Please don't insult those of us that prefer otherwise.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> But he didn't say everyone should leave 100% of the time in every case. He said for HIM it was.
> 
> And I agree. It would be for me too. Nothing short sighted about it as I don't believe that rule is for everyone. Everyone has to decide what is best for themselves and its not short sighted to make that decision either way you go.


Dusty: Have you dealt with infidelity? If you have not, how can you make this statement until you are in the thick of it?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

So here's my logic.
If there was nothing to loose, she has her own money and I my own. We both had no kids, and my wife cheated, 
Why should I reconcile?
Why would she want to reconcile?
There's nothing tying her to me except her word.
She broke her word, what's keeping her from doing it again?
Fear?

I rather have a wife that loves me freely than have one that stays with me because she's afraid of the consequences of separation.

There's freedom within, there's freedom without.

But then, that's just my thoughts.

And yes, I was cheated on by a woman I loved , and saw it with my very own eyes.....
And walked away from her , because I thought I deserved more.
If I had forgiven her, I would have never been married to my present wife, and she would have cheated on me again.
She's presently married and still cheating on her present husband.
Some people just cannot be fixed , and I love the feeling of a woman crazy attracted to me and me only.
But ,everybody's situation is different so,
To each his own


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT


The terrorists win again


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

dusty4 said:


> Look, I'm not wanting to start a fight with you, but saying "for me" when saying he wouldn't stay with a cheater is different from you saying "for me" you wouldn't be short sighted which is a direct insult. You called him, as well as the rest of us that hold this view for ouselves, short sighted.
> 
> Which is an insult, but I suppose could be much worse.
> 
> ...


Again...FOR ME...that is short sighted. Get it, yet?


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

LoriC said:


> Dusty: Have you dealt with infidelity? If you have not, how can you make this statement until you are in the thick of it?


Yes, I have, and I divorced as a result. Also have dumped a girlfriend prior to marriage for cheating.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Again...FOR ME...that is short sighted. Get it, yet?


No, you are saying Cee, and the rest of us are. But whatever dude.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

A nice sentiment but not real life, especially with feelings and perhaps children involved. Being single and reading things written down in black and white, it's very easy to say get a divorce or split up.
Indeed now if it ever happens to me again, she'd be out the door so fast her head would spin, I learned my lesson, some people need to learn theirs...either in reconciling and realizing what they could have lost or learning what exactly is the deal breaker


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> Look, I'm not wanting to start a fight with you, but saying "for me" when saying he wouldn't stay with a cheater is different from you saying "for me" you wouldn't be short sighted which is a direct insult. You called him, as well as the rest of us that hold this view for ouselves, short sighted.
> 
> Which is an insult, but I suppose could be much worse.
> 
> ...


So nice of you to allow him to have a different view. You are so kind. The OP is pretty insulting to anyone that's in R, but I suppose you're okay with that because that matches your view... so it's all good.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Trying to say what you would or would not do in a theoretical situation is rather easy.

Doing it is not.

I can say that I'd easily shoot someone trying to break in to my home. In reality, I'm just as likely to climb in a closet and hide.

I'm glad you've never been faced with this in your life but understand that many couples DO choose to reconcile and are able to retain their family life, marriage and intimacy successfully.

Leaving the marriage doesn't mean a betrayed spouse doesn't have to deal with the hurt and anger - it's just a matter of working through it with their partner or without.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Trying to say what you would or would not do in a theoretical situation is rather easy.
> 
> Doing it is not.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Ah yep that. If people were one monolithic emotion at a time everything would be easy, but most of the time we're a mess of contradictory emotions.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dusty4 said:


> No, you are saying Cee, and the rest of us are. But whatever dude.


FFS! Dig is saying that if HE had chosen to D rather than attempt R with HIS OWN WIFE, it would have been shortsighted...FOR HIM. Damn, is it clear enough for ya now??? Good grief!


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> FFS! Dig is saying that if HE had chosen to D rather than attempt R with HIS OWN WIFE, it would have been shortsighted...FOR HIM. Damn, is it clear enough for ya now??? Good grief!


Let him go on. See...you get it, he didn't because of the predisposition to the issue. THAT is the tragedy of some of TAM. They love to f'ng push their viewpoint and if you say something that they sense is out of line with their reasoning then YOU are wrong.

Don't believe me? Well, look at the guy Steve's thread. Over 290 posts in the thread and *SEVEN* of them are his. Don't think certain posters don't create innuendo and push their frame of reference on people - well, f'ng think again.

This example is no different.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Before we lose anyone to being banned, I just HAVE to say that dusty4's avatar is hilarious! Sorry for the thread-jack.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> FFS! Dig is saying that if HE had chosen to D rather than attempt R with HIS OWN WIFE, it would have been shortsighted...FOR HIM. Damn, is it clear enough for ya now??? Good grief!


You know what? I read it exactly the same way dusty4 did. So maybe his words aren't exactly well worded.

And you know what else? I have always been one to show BSs how their actions might have created a supple ground or enabled the affair. But I am sick of threads where saying "Divorce" is considered as being bitter and running away. An affair is seriously fcked up(as anyone here would agree) and "divorce" should be the default option for it as an advice. It is a complete disregard for what marriage(or any relationship for that matter) stands for. 

Does that mean R is impossible or even unlikely? No, not unless there is two people working on it. But when D is the default answer as advice, it makes the WS the major responsible person for working for R. As they should be.

And from another thread:



SomedayDig said:


> Do you honestly think that by reading a f'ng e-book written by a man who has never been cheated on is going to save you? Do you think a man who has never been cheated on is going to really help you on that telephone call?


Dude, you obviously haven't read the book, read anything in the forum, don't know anything about what he advises on such a situation. Yet you still continue to talk about stuff you don't have a basic understanding about and you continue to try to deprive people of a wonderful source of marital advice that a lot of people would benefit from. It is weird and laughable.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

So, Cee Paul, you are a Christian, yes? I know you don't go to a church/building, but you consider yourself a follower of God, right? And His Son, Jesus? This one thing I want to ask... and this really isn't an attack on anyone who has chosen D over R, nor is it a personal vendetta against anyone who does NOT believe in God.... Cee Paul, what do you make of Matthew 1? You know, where it states the lineage of Jesus? Here, so you don't have to go look it up I did it for you:

The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3 *And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar*; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
(Was Judas...also known as Judah... married at the time? or did he console himself with his widowed daughter-in-law, who was betrothed to his youngest son?)

4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5 *And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab*; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; (Rachab, or Rahab... the harlot/prostitute... hmmmm)

6 And Jesse begat David the king; and *David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias*; (that would be Bathsheba, the adulteress, and King David, the adulterer)

7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.


My point in posting this was to point out that even those who cheated can change and become faithful. If one chooses to D rather than R, that is their choice. But the choice to R rather than D isn't an invalid choice either.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)




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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> You know what? I read it exactly the same way dusty4 did. So maybe his words aren't exactly well worded.
> 
> And you know what else? I have always been one to show BSs how their actions might have created a supple ground or enabled the affair. But I am sick of threads where saying "Divorce" is considered as being bitter and running away. An affair is seriously fcked up(as anyone here would agree) and "divorce" should be the default option for it as an advice. It is a complete disregard for what marriage(or any relationship for that matter) stands for.
> 
> ...


Ummm...I have his book on my laptop.

See, here we go again. YOU guys in your infinite f'ng wisdom know everything. You even know what is on my computer, in my bookshelf and in the grey matter of my brain. I f'ng bow to your total and absolute alphaness of triumph.

Weird and laughable.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> My point in posting this was to point out that even those who cheated can change and become faithful. If one chooses to D rather than R, that is their choice. But the choice to R rather than D isn't an invalid choice either.


The Bible has a lot about forgiveness. But do you know what else the Bible has a lot about? Consequences before forgiveness and punishment for those who don't repent.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> And you know what else? I have always been one to show BSs how their actions might have created a supple ground or enabled the affair. *But I am sick of threads where saying "Divorce" is considered as being bitter and running away.* An affair is seriously fcked up(as anyone here would agree) and "divorce" should be the default option for it as an advice. It is a complete disregard for what marriage(or any relationship for that matter) stands for.


Gee, and I'm sick of reading threads where saying "Reconcile" makes a person weak, or a doormat. Funny how no one notices those posts, though.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Again...FOR ME...that is short sighted. Get it, yet?


I don't understand people's need to qualify this. Everything everyone posts here, really, it's "for them". 

Perhaps we should build in a feature that adds "IMO" at the end of every post?


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> Yes, I have, and I divorced as a result. Also have dumped a girlfriend prior to marriage for cheating.


As it should be.

*(IMO).*


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> The Bible has a lot about forgiveness. But do you know what else the Bible has a lot about? Consequences before forgiveness and punishment for those who don't repent.


Yes it does. What's your point? :scratchhead:


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## Whenwillitend (Jul 25, 2012)

After finding out about my wife's PA I struggled with the choice of D or attempting R. I was very close to take the D route when my daughter told me that all she wanted for her birthday was for mommy and daddy to always stay together I decided I owed my kids one last try. If only so that I can one day tell my kids I did everything I could to make our marriage work. At the same time I would not blame anyone that would divorce their spouse for cheating. Only time will tell if my choice was correct and the choice was mine and no one else's.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Ummm...I have his book on my laptop.
> 
> See, here we go again. YOU guys in your infinite f'ng wisdom know everything. You even know what is on my computer, in my bookshelf and in the grey matter of my brain. I f'ng bow to your total and absolute alphaness of triumph.
> 
> Weird and laughable.


Hmmm then interesting how you are trying to make the assumption that he says you should R or D or use a specific pathway without any tweaking. Whatever, dude. Live in your view of the world where you are right. In this case however, you aren't.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

russell28 said:


> So nice of you to allow him to have a different view. You are so kind. The OP is pretty insulting to anyone that's in R, but I suppose you're okay with that because that matches your view... so it's all good.


People need to relax...it's just people's opinions. Yes, I could see how the OP would be offensive to those in R. So what?

You know what I find offensive? People who R after being cheated on - because it sends the message that marriage vows don't really mean anything, that cheating is forgiveable and NOT a deal breaker, and that promises are cheap and don't mean sh*t.

So what? You're allowed to take your cheating wife back and I'm allowed to think that's wrong.

In the end it doesn't matter - it's up to the WS and the BS.

What I or anyone else thinks about it doesn't mean jack sh*t.

You live your life for you and yours, not some anonymous people on a message board.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Hmmm then interesting how you are trying to make the assumption that he says you should R or D or use a specific pathway without any tweaking. Whatever, dude. Live in your view of the world where you are right. In this case however, you aren't.


LMFAO. Well...uhh...dude, whatever. If you don't agree with me then you're wrong. 

That is the attitude here. Cee Paul says FOR HIM it's over. I say FOR ME it's short sighted to see things that way.

How f'ng difficult is this and my point about "winning" is thus proven again and again and again. Thanks!


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Gee, and I'm sick of reading threads where saying "Reconcile" makes a person weak, or a doormat. Funny how no one notices those posts, though.


To say "Reconcile" without the WS wanting it, nay begging for it, to be so innately needy of another person's love when they have pushed you away is the epitome of weakness. Many times the BS finds a way to persuade him/herself into thinking about R when there is a clear signal from the WS showing to them not to. Our job here is to hold them back.

Also let us not forget all the BSs who are facing a second DDay, because they have prematurely tried R. 

Let us also not forget about BSs who tried to R for R's sake and later realized they couldn't get past the infidelity.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> To say "Reconcile" without the WS wanting it, nay begging for it, to be so innately needy of another person's love when they have pushed you away is the epitome of weakness. Many times the BS finds a way to persuade him/herself into thinking about R when there is a clear signal from the WS showing to them not to. Our job here is to hold them back.
> 
> *Also let us not forget all the BSs who are facing a second DDay, because they have prematurely tried R.
> 
> Let us also not forget about BSs who tried to R for R's sake and later realized they couldn't get past the infidelity.*


This, in bold! That second DDay can be years later during a wicked, faked up reconciliation that the BS genuinely participated in thinking it to be true. WS continuing the deception even deeper in covert mode.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

It's a topic people tend to feel very, very strongly about one way or the other.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wants to R. 

And I don't begrudge a BS who boots their WS to the curb.

To each their own. Infidelity sure is a painful, horrible thing though, no matter which end of it you come out on. 

This forum is a wasteland of broken hearts and shattered souls. 

Whatever your path, I wish healing to all of you BS's who are suffering.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

The-Deceived said:


> It's a topic people tend to feel very, very strongly about one way or the other.
> 
> I certainly don't begrudge anyone who wants to R.
> 
> ...


Dude if you keep talking like this, you won't get banned. Cut it out!


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> LMFAO. Well...uhh...dude, whatever. If you don't agree with me then you're wrong.
> 
> That is the attitude here. Cee Paul says FOR HIM it's over. I say FOR ME it's short sighted to see things that way.
> 
> How f'ng difficult is this and my point about "winning" is thus proven again and again and again. Thanks!


ugh...

I am trying to question your understanding of "an e-book that was written by a man who has never been cheated on". I am saying that book never says "Don't R" or "Don't D", it just shows an effective path in breaking an affair. But obviously you know better what I'm talking about, as you try to make my words to be something other than what I'm saying them to be.

What is your beef with the book anyway? You have a problem with men trying to unlock their dominant, masculine side that a feminized society has separated them from? Or is it men taking their share of the power of the relationship(and the responsibility that comes with it)?


----------



## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> So, Cee Paul, you are a Christian, yes? I know you don't go to a church/building, but you consider yourself a follower of God, right? And His Son, Jesus? This one thing I want to ask... and this really isn't an attack on anyone who has chosen D over R, nor is it a personal vendetta against anyone who does NOT believe in God.... Cee Paul, what do you make of Matthew 1? You know, where it states the lineage of Jesus? Here, so you don't have to go look it up I did it for you:
> 
> The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
> 
> ...


Right...but in Christianity isn't infidelity a just reason to divorce?

Not that I care, I don't believe in God. Just raising a point.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Dude if you keep talking like this, you won't get banned. Cut it out!


LOL


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

The-Deceived said:


> People need to relax...it's just people's opinions. Yes, I could see how the OP would be offensive to those in R. So what?
> 
> You know what I find offensive? People who R after being cheated on - because it sends the message that marriage vows don't really mean anything, that cheating is forgiveable and NOT a deal breaker, and that promises are cheap and don't mean sh*t.
> 
> ...


Fear leads to anger.. anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering... 

-Yoda


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

russell28 said:


> Fear leads to anger.. anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering...
> 
> -Yoda


Yoda is a little piece of green turd.

And the new series is better than the old ones.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Yoda is a little piece of green turd.
> 
> And the new series is better than the old ones.


^
Has gone over to the dark side...


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

SN...I hate to break it to ya: Athol Kay is f'ng brilliant. I mean that wholeheartedly. He's a smart guy. He figured out a need in cyberspace and has sold a lot of books and made some good money from it. I applaud his entrepreneurship as he has proven that successful marketing is what it takes to make it. In his own words FROM HIS BOOK, he states that he was on the verge of bankruptcy right before writing it.

The beef is in the flawed thinking of the masses. The ones touting the line. The ones who talk about the "limbic" brain and the rationalization hamster crap.

It's bunk, man. It's pseudo-science.

You can read in the thread I started in the Men's Clubhouse where I said the basic ideology of bettering oneself as a man is a great f'ng idea. Always seek to better yourself. Those ideals are NOT flawed.

The "science" is. We're talking about Alpha stuff applied to a pack of wolves. Yeah, that sounds really sexy to a guy who just got his f'ng heart ripped outta his chest. He wants to be elevated. He NEEDS to be!

But the wolfpack/alpha theory is based on improper science. Yes, a study WAS done on wolves that showed this propencity for "alpha-ing" up and dominating the pack.

Trouble is...that was with wolves in captivity. Wolves in a closed system and limited resources. Of course they're gonna fight for dominance.

In reality...in the real world...wolves don't act like that. The pack is strong due to it's number. Not the "alpha" males. The pack acts more like a commune from the hippy era of the 70's. When a young wolf matures, it doesn't fight it's father for dominance of the pack. It finds a suitable female and goes out and CREATES ITS OWN PACK.

If you would like, I will cite the information for you and all the rest of your pack.

If you prefer, I will leave your pack alone and go about my merry way of reconciliation. It matters not to me.

Just don't piss on a rock and try to tell me it's f'ng raining.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Aw man, now we're gonna drag Yoda in to this mess???? LOL


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> SN...I hate to break it to ya: Athol Kay is f'ng brilliant. I mean that wholeheartedly. He's a smart guy. He figured out a need in cyberspace and has sold a lot of books and made some good money from it. I applaud his entrepreneurship as he has proven that successful marketing is what it takes to make it. In his own words FROM HIS BOOK, he states that he was on the verge of bankruptcy right before writing it.
> 
> The beef is in the flawed thinking of the masses. The ones touting the line. The ones who talk about the "limbic" brain and the rationalization hamster crap.
> 
> ...


I'd also like to add to that the flawed thinking that if you are that type of guy naturally, that infidelity can't or won't happen to you. Isn't that a bit like blaming the victim for not being Alpha enough?


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

I remember when I was attempting to R with my WW. I remember every single day at work, sitting in the crapper stall, staring at the door, in utter despair. In SO much pain that I knew would never go away...that I would struggle so hard with this every day for the rest of my life. The struggle to forgive, the struggle to trust, the struggle to find love for her again, the struggle to put the pain of betrayal behind me. It was crushing my soul.

I also remember the tremendous weight that was lifted off of me when I decided to pull the plug. The pain and sadness in my eyes that went away, and was replaced with hope, relief, and ultimately, happiness.

I have my moments and triggers (any time the kids are in pain, I get angry, and any time the POSOM somehow rears his ugly little pinhead) that cause angry outbursts. But in general I am kind and soft on her. And she can't believe it. "You're so strong, so kind, such a good man...why are you being kind when you shouldn't be?"

The only reason I can show her kindness and compassion is because I ended it. If I were still with her, it would have eaten me alive, sooner or later.

D and R are both hard roads to travel. You have to decide for yourself which is better for you. I can rest knowing I gave R an honest shot. I HAD to. I had to know I tried.

Man, this is all such a mind f*ck. Her physical affair started 1 year ago this month (well, that she's admitted to). Surreal.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> What is your beef with the book anyway? You have a problem with men trying to unlock their dominant, masculine side that a feminized society has separated them from? Or is it men taking their share of the power of the relationship(and the responsibility that comes with it)?



Really..Is this what society is all about, us weakling, emasculated men not having any power in our relationships and this feminized society?
:scratchhead:


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Really..Is this what society is all about, us weakling, emasculated men not having any power in our relationships and this feminized society?
> :scratchhead:


Yup. Now you know.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I'd also like to add to that the flawed thinking that if you are that type of guy naturally, that infidelity can't or won't happen to you. Isn't that a bit like blaming the victim for not being Alpha enough?


According to Athol, I was a good Alpha with positive Beta traits. I was a pilot who was swooned over by countless women, in countless states and countries. I never once strayed because that was against my virtue. Period.

Well...guess f'ng what!?!


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Really..Is this what society is all about, us weakling, emasculated men not having any power in our relationships and this feminized society?
> :scratchhead:


Maybe. I know for sure my stbxw had my balls in her purse for a LONG TIME. And me rolling over and giving her all the freedom she wanted didn't turn out so great for me (well, maybe in the long run  )

I will say this for her - I'm much more of a "real man" now than I ever was before. And I'm enjoying the sh*t out of it.

Thanks, babe!


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Why are you basing your assumptions on wolf pack behaviour? The human is a different animal thus has a different evolutional psychology. The terms "alpha" and "beta" though they have been first worded in the researching of wolf pack behaviour, have spread into the usage of a lot more animalistic behaviour.

I've seen that thread(hahahahaha obviously) and yes, I'm still regarding it as nonsensical.(The wolf behaviour pattern understanding have been changed =/= Human evopsych is bunk.) 

And no need for citations I have read the study a long while ago.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> Yup. Now you know.


Had that idea, but thought it only pertained to me and not the "real" men in society!


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> According to Athol, I was a good Alpha with positive Beta traits. I was a pilot who was swooned over by countless women, in countless states and countries. I never once strayed because that was against my virtue. Period.
> 
> Well...guess f'ng what!?!


Yup - you and my H. He had girls (and not just background or crew) putting numbers in his pocket, leaving notes in his equipment (not THAT equipment!), etc. on set or location...

I felt like an arse after reading that book thinking I had bought it to help him. Lesson learned to read it myself first next time.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Once there's vanilla there should be no chocolate, and strawberry is completely out of the question!!!


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> And you know what else? I have always been one to show BSs how their actions might have created a supple ground or enabled the affair.


BS here. I go back-and-forth on that. A lot of men and women would have cheated regardless. And in this case the actions of the BS would only delay or speed-up the inevitable. D is for default-setting in those situations.

I've known a couple of guys who cheated on their dream girl and still pine for those same women they cheated on. Those women could not have done anything differently.

I also am also at an age when I am seeing more women who are looking for adventure and drama fvcking up their perfect lives for nothing. I've seen you on Dalrock's blog so you know what I'm talking about: batsh1t crazy, EPL wives.

The only think the BS could have done in those situations to avoid betray was pre-emptively divorce them.

I don't know if my ex was full-on bat**** crazy and I no longer care. But I have become the man she always wanted me to be... just not for her.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

I don't think I could handle a D day 2.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> I'd also like to add to that the flawed thinking that if you are that type of guy naturally, that infidelity can't or won't happen to you. Isn't that a bit like blaming the victim for not being Alpha enough?


I don't think that's the logical equation. Making a marriage an enticing option lowers the infidelity risk significantly. However, there will still be a risk(You can never control another person's actions). If there wasn't, the guy wouldn't add such a section to his book and say if you are a good mis of alpha and beta you will never be cheated on and be done with it.

Cheating is always on the WS. Making the marriage enticing is on both spouses.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> You know what I find offensive? People who R after being cheated on - because it sends the message that marriage vows don't really mean anything, that cheating is forgiveable and NOT a deal breaker, and that promises are cheap and don't mean sh*t.


I don't want to stir the pot, but my ex actually did just this. She showed me R threads on another forum saying, "Look, our relationship can actually be stronger because of this! Some people say that there relationships are BETTER because of infidelity."


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Cee Paul bailed?


Guess it's true...you really can't "Cee" Paul

.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I know there are many many threads about cheating on here and a lot of them talk about reconciliation and forgiveness, and I personally know of two couples that have had infidelity in their marriages and then decided to stay together and work on it. But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable. If you would be willing to go out and cheat on me what's next............killing me in my sleep?


Infidelity = murder? 

No. It doesn't. 

See, let's try a little thought experiment. 
Scenario 1 your wife cheats on you and is very contrite. 

In scenario 2 your wife kills you. 

Which is worse? 1 or 2?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I don't think that's the logical equation. Making a marriage an enticing option lowers the infidelity risk significantly. However, there will still be a risk. If there wasn't, the guy wouldn't add such a section to his book and say if you are a good mis of alpha and beta you will never be cheated on and be done with it.


Awww, that's cute. 

I'm not going to debate this ad nauseum, it's pointless. I can tell you that my husband IS that mix without any reading, studying or trying. He's still working through the same issues to recover. Meantime other BS' are studying that formula with the delusion it's the magic cure. That is a dangerous path to walk. I see posts all the time from men wanting to know if this or that is a shiite test or some such garbage. 

My infidelity wasn't a reflection of whether he was or wasn't Alpha, Beta, Gamma or Kappa or an ice blended ****tail of all of it. It's mine to own.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Infidelity = murder?
> 
> No. It doesn't.
> 
> ...


You miss the point.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> Awww, that's cute.
> 
> 
> 
> My infidelity wasn't a reflection of whether he was or wasn't Alpha, Beta, Gamma or Kappa or an ice blended ****tail of all of it. It's mine to own.


That made me LOL.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> I remember when I was attempting to R with my WW. I remember every single day at work, sitting in the crapper stall, staring at the door, in utter despair. In SO much pain that I knew would never go away...that I would struggle so hard with this every day for the rest of my life. The struggle to forgive, the struggle to trust, the struggle to find love for her again, the struggle to put the pain of betrayal behind me. It was crushing my soul.
> 
> I also remember the tremendous weight that was lifted off of me when I decided to pull the plug. The pain and sadness in my eyes that went away, and was replaced with hope, relief, and ultimately, happiness.
> 
> ...


Your best post to date! Lol! It is eerie how similar these things are with different people. I feel like many of us are living in parallel worlds.

In my mind it is MUCH easier to forgive when you let them go. It is often stated that forgiveness (not forgetting) is a gift you give yourself. I couldn't do it while still in R. I can now that I have moved on. 

I really think a D for a WS is a consequence that they need. It is a path for them to grow. They can become better for the next marriage. 

The same probably is true for a BS if they can learn, and not be bitter. As a BH I find my trust is not nearly as strong in my 2nd marriage. It is compensated with gratitude for a better wife. 

My $0.02.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> My infidelity wasn't a reflection of whether he was or wasn't Alpha, Beta, Gamma or Kappa or an ice blended ****tail of all of it. It's mine to own.


Where in my post have I said it wasn't?



Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Making a marriage an enticing option lowers the infidelity risk significantly. However, there will still be a risk(You can never control another person's actions).


Wait, wow, is this the "cute" part of my post?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Labcoat said:


> I don't want to stir the pot, but my ex actually did just this. She showed me R threads on another forum saying, "Look, our relationship can actually be stronger because of this! Some people say that there relationships are BETTER because of infidelity."


Very few say "because" of the infidelity (of those saying that the vast majority saying that are the cheaters) while the rest generally say "after" the infidelity. They state this as they have learned from the issue and learned how to deal with each other better (they needed that slap in the face wake up call) and the marriage is now stronger.

Also no to stir the pot, but vows in this day and age are nothing more than spoken words, just like morals are nothing more than beliefs and hopes. Society has crushed the standards and it is now a free for all with relationships (pre-marital sex and living together used to be frowned upon and looked down at, but it is now considered by many as responsible and a good prelude to testing compatibility).


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> You miss the point.


On the contrary. I got the point. I just do not agree with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I know there are many many threads about cheating on here and a lot of them talk about reconciliation and forgiveness, and I personally know of two couples that have had infidelity in their marriages and then decided to stay together and work on it. But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable. If you would be willing to go out and cheat on me what's next............killing me in my sleep?


Don't be silly. First they get huge insurance settlements on you, than they drug you, sell off your organs, gang rape you in your sleep and you 'suddenly have an accident.'

Because...anyone who lies to you will murder you. Anyone likes screwing will obviously sell your dog Rex to glove liners. A person who steals the last ice cream from the freezer is on a slippery slope to organ harvesting and selling orphans to brothels.

But if that works for you, great.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Where in my post have I said it wasn't?


Well, you've edited it which is appreciated but your initial post was very slanted towards the man making the marriage enticing to discourage his wife from cheating, etc.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> Well, you've edited it which is appreciated but your initial post was very slanted towards the man making the marriage enticing to discourage his wife from cheating, etc.


I edited it before you posted, ya big sleeper :sleeping:


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## badcompany (Aug 4, 2010)

I think the hardest part, would be that you now know you have a liar for an SO. You are back to the beginning again, because NOTHING he/she said can be taken as the truth. I wouldn't want to walk on those eggshells and I wouldn't get married again.


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## Brokenshadow (May 3, 2013)

badcompany said:


> I think the hardest part, would be that you now know you have a liar for an SO. You are back to the beginning again, because NOTHING he/she said can be taken as the truth. I wouldn't want to walk on those eggshells and I wouldn't get married again.


Agreed. She lied about the affair not being physical, how can I possibly believe her when she says there weren't others?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> On the contrary. I got the point. I just do not agree with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's cool - for you, your WW's cheating was not tantamount to murder. For others, it is.

I've read that some consider being cheated on worse than losing a child. For me - not even close. NOTHING could be worse than losing a child. 

It's an extreme analogy, but it's just that - an analogy.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> Don't be silly. First they get huge insurance settlements on you, than they drug you, sell off your organs, gang rape you in your sleep and you 'suddenly have an accident.'
> 
> Because...anyone who lies to you will murder you. Anyone likes screwing will obviously sell your dog Rex to glove liners. A person who steals the last ice cream from the freezer is on a slippery slope to organ harvesting and selling orphans to brothels.
> 
> But if that works for you, great.


It's an ANALOGY. Don't worry - nobody is calling you a murderer.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

JCD said:


> Don't be silly. First they get huge insurance settlements on you, than they drug you, sell off your organs, gang rape you in your sleep and you 'suddenly have an accident.'
> 
> Because...anyone who lies to you will murder you. Anyone likes screwing will obviously sell your dog Rex to glove liners. A person who steals the last ice cream from the freezer is on a slippery slope to organ harvesting and selling orphans to brothels.
> 
> But if that works for you, great.


Hyperbole is fun, I used it yesterday in fact.

That said, most affairs have an huge, huge element of selfishness. Do they drop to the level of sociopathy? No.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sp, is there laughing going on under the bridge? I mean wow, he got everyone going with little effort.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> Your best post to date! Lol! It is eerie how similar these things are with different people. I feel like many of us are living in parallel worlds.
> 
> In my mind it is MUCH easier to forgive when you let them go. It is often stated that forgiveness (not forgetting) is a gift you give yourself. I couldn't do it while still in R. I can now that I have moved on.
> 
> ...



I'm in allignment with these sage posts, and with Middleman - though I'd extend his view to men of German, Irish, Scotch and Welsh heritage as well. If a man's wife commits adultery he should divorce her, period. what about women who are cheated on, you ask? well look it's hard enough speaking for all men, give me a few weeks at least before you want me to speak for all women.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> To say "Reconcile" without the WS wanting it, nay begging for it, to be so innately needy of another person's love when they have pushed you away is the epitome of weakness. Many times the BS finds a way to persuade him/herself into thinking about R when there is a clear signal from the WS showing to them not to. Our job here is to hold them back.
> *
> Also let us not forget all the BSs who are facing a second DDay, because they have prematurely tried R.
> 
> Let us also not forget about BSs who tried to R for R's sake and later realized they couldn't get past the infidelity.*


:iagree:

This part in bold.
Life is good, but people are cruel and selfish.
I've known cases where men forgave their wife's infidelity and stayed " for the kids sake."
Later on, after the kids are gone , then she decides to tell him that she never loved him , how he made her life miserable , and all the other times she screwed him over.

"..._Time can bring yo down, time can bend your knees.
Time can break your heart , have you begging please, begging please_.."
Tears in Heaven..Eric Clapton.

IMO , the beautiful wife I now have, it would be difficult for me to live without her, knowing the type of person I know her to be.
If she decided to have sex with another man, then she is no longer the type of person I know her to be.
The person I couldn't live without is somebody_ I used to know_.
This new person,
Is not _my_ wife.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I edited it before you posted, ya big sleeper :sleeping:


Before she posted, yes. Before she quoted/started writing? No.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This part in bold.
> Life is good, but people are cruel and selfish.
> ...


Ohhh that song...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> well look it's hard enough speaking for all men, give me a few weeks at least before you want me to speak for all women.


I would rather you just stuck to speaking for yourself and not for all men or women. It is fine to have your thoughts and voice them, but don't pass them off as how all men, think, believe, and behave. if you think it is a no go, then it should be that way for everyone, no matter the sex otherwise it is perpetuating the double standard that causes so much issue on here.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This part in bold.
> Life is good, but people are cruel and selfish.
> ...


Never a good reason to stay 'for the kids sake'... If that's the only reason for staying together, you were doomed anyway.

I bet there are cases where a man forgave the wives infidelity, left for D... then his next wife screwed him over. I also bet there are cases where a man forgave his wife, they stayed and lived happily ever after. I bet there are many varying cases....


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

russell28 said:


> Never a good reason to stay 'for the kids sake'... If that's the only reason for staying together, you were doomed anyway.
> 
> I bet there are cases where a man forgave the wives infidelity, left for D... then his next wife screwed him over. I also bet there are cases where a man forgave his wife, they stayed and lived happily ever after. I bet there are many varying cases....


A good point Russell. I mean, if a marriage can survive infidelity because the man who forgave refuses to allow any further bullsh-t...well...I guess I would call that f'ng alpha.

Gee. Did I just say that word?

Hmmm.

Oh, wait. That response is FOR ME. It's MY viewpoint and valid only in the state in which I reside and for my own personal life and enjoyment. Any rebroadcast of MY f'ng viewpoint is soley on YOU...not ME and if you're man enough to get that, then cool. If not then cool.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> *Also no to stir the pot, but vows in this day and age are nothing more than spoken words, just like morals are nothing more than beliefs and hopes. Society has crushed the standards and it is now a free for all with relationships (pre-marital sex and living together used to be frowned upon and looked down at, but it is now considered by many as responsible and a good prelude to testing compatibility).*


Quoted For Truth.

A lot of people hold values that are at diametrically opposed to their marriage vows.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> A good point Russell. I mean, if a marriage can survive infidelity because the man who forgave refuses to allow any further bullsh-t...well...I guess I would call that f'ng alpha.
> 
> Gee. Did I just say that word?
> 
> ...


MY viewpoint is that it's all about who the people are, where they are in life and the relationship, how much is invested, what they've learned, how will they manage going forward. For some D is the only option, for some R is an option, for some, they'll try R and eventually D.. some will D and someday R... ah life.... it sucks, and it's wonderful.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

russell28 said:


> MY viewpoint is that it's all about who the people are, where they are in life and the relationship, how much is invested, what they've learned, how will they manage going forward. For some D is the only option, for some R is an option, for some, they'll try R and eventually D.. some will D and someday R... ah life.... it sucks, and it's wonderful.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

russell28 said:


> Never a good reason to stay 'for the kids sake'... If that's the only reason for staying together, you were doomed anyway.
> 
> I bet there are cases where a man forgave the wives infidelity, left for D... then his next wife screwed him over. *I also bet there are cases where a man forgave his wife, they stayed and lived happily ever after. *I bet there are many varying cases....


I don't know about living " happily ever after " post infidelity.
Happiness for me right now is being able to have my wife travel anywhere with her friends on vacation and not worry about infidelity.
Happiness for me is my wife having the freedom have male friends and I don't have to worry about infidelity.

Having to enforce an entire set of rules , regulations to curb her freedom ,and having to constantly check her phone and online activity etc.,etc., etc., because she cheated...
That is unhappiness.
I'm sorry, I can't live in a relationship like that,but like you , _I bet there are cases where some people did._
To each his own.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't know about living " happily ever after " post infidelity.
> Happiness for me right now is being able to have my wife travel anywhere with her friends on vacation and not worry about infidelity.
> Happiness for me is my wife having the freedom have male friends and I don't have to worry about infidelity.
> 
> ...


<------This guy is doing it now. You would be amazed at the strength men CAN show when faced with unbelievable hardships.

Sh-t f'ng happens in life. I stopped the "whoa is me" a few months ago when I decided that her faults were hers and bore Z-E-R-O on my soul. Wasn't my fault. 

Some can work through it. Others cannot. Make your choice, and understand it is YOURS and no one elses. "They" will never understand. "They" aren't in your heart, your life, or your marriage. "They" truly have no bearing.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> To say "Reconcile" without the WS wanting it, nay begging for it, to be so innately needy of another person's love when they have pushed you away is the epitome of weakness. Many times the BS finds a way to persuade him/herself into thinking about R when there is a clear signal from the WS showing to them not to. Our job here is to hold them back.
> 
> Also let us not forget all the BSs who are facing a second DDay, because they have prematurely tried R.
> 
> Let us also not forget about BSs who tried to R for R's sake and later realized they couldn't get past the infidelity.


Difference of opinion on that one... My WW was a completely unremorseful nasty wayward. She wanted to eat cake. So far over that edge that I couldn’t believe she was the same person I knew. I was convinced the woman I fell in love with was buried under there.

It wasn’t me being innately needy of getting loved by her... at least not after that second DD when I was finally broken.

Honestly, I was so affronted by who she was as a human that the cruelest “ramification” I could think of was to destroy her self-image, value and self-esteem of who she saw in the mirror until it matched how I saw her. And stay in the marriage so every single day she had to face the damage and pain remembering fondly of how it was before. I did not give her an easy out or a target to blame for initiating a divorce and breaking up the family. 

She was free to go, but that’s something people don’t seem to get about waywards; They are and have been too weak to leave... there is something there that won’t let them. You can’t scare them over that edge where they will file that easily. For mine, that was because she refused to hold herself accountable for anything ‘bad’. She wouldn’t initiate it... instead she waited for me to be ‘the bad guy’ and start the divorce by pushing buttons. I decided to show her what a ‘bad guy’ really feels like....... It is liberating to not really care one little bit if you hurt their feelings and start ripping through the softer tissues of their character. It’s liberating to shed the rules of “a good husband would never ____”. Wounded creatures in pain are the most dangerous ones.... 

Epitome of weakness? I sort of saw myself and what I did as cruel and emotionally abusive to intentionally break her apart just to see if she had enough strength to crawl back out of that hole. It feels vindictive...

I have no idea why people seem think R means “playing nice” and “sucking it up”.... There are many variations on the approach to Reconciliation. 

Mine crawled back out with a whole new perspective on who she was... She hates what she allowed herself to become. And “grew the f’ up”. Trauma tends to do that to you. I'm sticking around to see who she becomes and the direction she goes... as long as it is on a path I'm headed, we'll be fine.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> <------This guy is doing it now. You would be amazed at the strength men CAN show when faced with unbelievable hardships.
> 
> Sh-t f'ng happens in life. I stopped the "whoa is me" a few months ago when I decided that her faults were hers and bore Z-E-R-O on my soul. Wasn't my fault.
> 
> Some can work through it. Others cannot. Make your choice, and understand it is YOURS and no one elses. "They" will never understand. "They" aren't in your heart, your life, or your marriage. "They" truly have no bearing.


Well that's the point Dig.
You could, good for you.It a road YOU choose to travel. You make up YOUR RULES and it works for you.

And that's exactly what those opposed are doing.
They've made THEIR OWN RULES and stick with it.
Ain't nothing to do with Athol K or Alpha or anything like that.

YOU accepted it, that's YOUR choice.
I'm NOT accepting it, that's MY choice.I decide how I would handle sh!t LONG before sh!t happens....
Just the way I live my life.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

russell28 said:


> MY viewpoint is that it's all about who the people are, where they are in life and the relationship, how much is invested, what they've learned, how will they manage going forward. For some D is the only option, for some R is an option, for some, they'll try R and eventually D.. some will D and someday R... ah life.... it sucks, and it's wonderful.


I vote true on this.

The point I needed to make in my case was that it was easier to forgive after a D. I really do know what a R is like. Count me in on getting a second d-day and TT. Same for the blame shifting.

To me it was a very personal thing to deeply evaluate the pros and cons of staying married to my exWW. Lots of "pros" or the R would not have been attempted.

My conclusion was that she didn't "get it." She would never know how deeply I had loved her, nor would she value it.

My love was better spent on a new mate. A woman that would treasure it.

I can forgive now knowing I am loved deeply, and she (exWW) can discover on her own what love means. 

A win-win type of D for us! Lol! 

God bless those that are making R a good thing for them.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Caribbean Man said:


> Happiness for me is my wife having the freedom have male friends and I don't have to worry about infidelity.
> 
> Having to enforce an entire set of rules , regulations to curb her freedom ,and having to constantly check her phone and online activity etc.,etc., etc., because she cheated....


I should note I believe the same things.... Because I know she hates what she had become, I don't really have to monitor and have special rules. She does that to herself and judges herself far more than I ever could. She is accountable, not to me, but to herself. 

Before, she looked to others to define herself by the reflection in their eyes she thought she saw. Now she looks in the mirror. That is why I felt I had to break her. 

Her core was fine, it was how she used to morph how others might want her to be or saw her that was flawed as hell.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

Nujabes said:


> Huh that's funny. I put a whole sentence saying that "I wasn't in your shoes so how would I know" but deleted it and went and post the one I did previously because I thought if I at least attempt to explain everything in a reasonable and logical format in a fair light I would at least have something to offer for you to absorb but I guess not.
> 
> Please forgive me if I come off judgmental, as I stated I'm just trying to fair in a logical format.
> 
> Oh please forgive this response as well... I couldn't resist the urge to say something. It almost felt like you are hiding something.


I don't understand, do you know her or something?

No? Then grow up. Not your bone to pick. 

Sorry but it's just obnoxious


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

This is such a pointless thread it is like woulda, shoulda, coulda. Every situation is different and really the only people who should be judging it are the people in it. We give advice then it is up to the people IN the relationship to decide what they want to do. I read stories of WS that I would not get back with, I also read tales of BS that I would leave in a heart beat, there are also stories of both that make my heart bleed for them. Each relationship is unique filled with memories, emotions, expectations and dreams. In all cases the point of anyone posting here should be that they want the people involved to be happier then when they posted, and achieve long term happiness. Some find that they get long term happiness through reconciliation this is a FACT. Others find they get long term happiness through divorce this is also a FACT. To try to pigeon hole this situation one way or another is to over simplify the situation to the point of absurdity. 

As for an EA making a marriage better well my girl when we were fighting gave me her ring and was walking out. That hurt so damn much but it also made me realize that if you don't take care of people they leave. Her point was well made she was not defending her actions she was just saying that the crisis that it created opened both their eyes to the fact that their relationship needed work. Made perfect sense to me and I agree with her sometimes a crisis although bad does make everyone evaluate where they are at, it did me. Does that mean that my girls actions okay? No I still hurt when I think about it but that does not mean I can't choose to make something good out of it.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Racer, good for you. And I mean that, seriously. But do you believe you are in the majority or minority? Do you believe that most people who try to do what you have done will succeed or fail?

JCD professed that he stayed for the kids after his EA and while a lot of people(including me) say that "staying just for the kids" is counter productive, he made it happen and now his marriage is in a better place.

There are obviously all sorts of variety in human behaviour and responses to infidelity(for BS and WS) is no exception. But when you are talking about it in a cost-effective manner(time, willpower,emotional fatigue etc) there are pretty set patterns. (for example: early in the marriage, no kids, unrepentant WS are all indicators of a high divorce to reconciliation cost effectiveness ratio.)


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Racer, good for you. And I mean that, seriously. But do you believe you are in the majority or minority?


Totally depends on how you define it. As far as I know, every BH who has reconciled with a truly nasty unremorseful WW has gone the Dresden Fire Bomb route. Yet... there are only a handful I’ve seen in the last 4 years even seriously try it and only 3 successes that bothered to continue to post. (None on this forum that I’ve seen). So I guess I'm the minority by far.



> Do you believe that most people who try to do what you have done will succeed or fail?


That is a individual thing based on both the WW and the BH and who they are. I’ve seen some half-arsed attempts. It’s more than just yelling random obscenities and lashing out in anger and pain. It really needs a malicious intellect behind it so it has direction and purpose. So it’s not “OMG, how could you do that you dumb @#!?”... it’s “I see your self-esteem dripping out from between your thighs” kind of degrading mean, then chewing through how they find self-worth .... You don’t pull your punches and you really do not care if the marriage works or not. You become the nicest person they know ripping them apart with very ugly ‘true things’ that cut deep. Their insecurities become 'soft tissue'...

That takes a certain kind of man and the right situation. He’s been tortured long enough to adopt ‘loose morals’ about how one conducts themselves and the 'high road' doesn't work. Everyone I know of that went this route also went through a false-R. Almost a right of initiation that ‘normal R’ techniques failed miserably and we were hurt even worse. Seething anger at how their life became this when they played by all the rules and are now willing to throw the rulebook away..

I seldom recommend this route of R unless I feel the BH is strong and broken enough to not give a f’k, and the wayward is truly delusional in the fog (no reason to with even a semi-remorseful wayward). The majority just aren’t the right situation.... And it never reaches that point. If it does though: Most will succeed based on those I know who did this.

No one comes out of it unscathed though.... It never ‘goes back’ to what it was.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Squeakr View Post
> 
> Also no to stir the pot, but vows in this day and age are nothing more than spoken words, just like morals are nothing more than beliefs and hopes. Society has crushed the standards and it is now a free for all with relationships (pre-marital sex and living together used to be frowned upon and looked down at, but it is now considered by many as responsible and a good prelude to testing compatibility).


Do you realy believe it's something new?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Pretty much the same here, man. My ex-wife cheated on me and we tried to reconcile. Less than a year later I found her at the bar with the guy...arm draped over his shoulders. I left my ring on the bar and never looked back. I swore I would never let that happen again.
> 
> Until Dday last year.
> 
> ...


He's just another keyboard cowboy.


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## carolinadreams (Nov 30, 2012)

I think if the OP had posted he liked Vanilla Ice Cream it would have been just as useful.

It's great, that is your opinion - but it's your opinion, and doesn't offer up a lot of help or utility to people who are "Coping With Infidelity".

I too thought I was a one and done type of person, but wife was remorseful and begged for a second changes. It's hard, will be hard for a bit I think, but I'm willing to give it a go. Ever person who has the misfortune to experience infidelity should make a rational judgement for themselves, based on their own character and capacity, and the remorsefulness of their spouse if reconciliation is a possibility for them.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I know there are many many threads about cheating on here and a lot of them talk about reconciliation and forgiveness, and I personally know of two couples that have had infidelity in their marriages and then decided to stay together and work on it. But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable. If you would be willing to go out and cheat on me what's next............killing me in my sleep?


Are you a BH/BW?


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Well, f'ng yay for you. You wouldn't stick around. Great.
> 
> For me, I try not to be so short sighted.


Nothing wrong to disagree. Though you were short sighted in the way you responed.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

theroad said:


> Are you a BH/BW?


No, he is not, as far as I know

.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

A lot of ground to cover so here goes:

- As far as the metaphor about "what's next......killing me in my sleep" goes, that means that after doing that to me and our marriage I would not put anything past you. If you notice with a lot of the domestic murder cases on tv or in the news they involve 3 people, a husband - a wife - and a secret lover.

- As far as being cheated on goes; certain people who have known me for 5 minutes online out of my 47 years alive should not be speaking FOR me or on my behalf, because I _have_ been cheated on before in my mid 20's and it sucked and I ended it right away.

- And as far as me "bailing" on this thread it's called.......*going to work* to start my shift at 11:30am and getting back home at 9:00pm.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Now seeing how it's late and all - I am now heading off to bed, so hopefully certain people won't come back tomorrow morning to accuse me of......."bailing".


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Quote of Cee Paul*
> But for me I fully feel 100% that once cheating has happened it's time to END the whole thing no matter what, because in my opinion it's THEE ultimate knife in the back and show of disrepect that is unforgiveable


I think you are right in some cases. Apparently for you it was the right action.
*You have over 20 years of D and I have over 20 years of R.*

Under my circumstances my R worked out real well. An additional bonus is that my 40 year old daughter is flying in from 1500 miles away to be with her Mom and Dad in June. She does this about every year and tells us that she just loves to be home with mom and dad, no other reason. My other two children would say the same thing except they live in the same city and are here with us at least 2-3 times a week. 

I know that an A is one of the worst violations in a marriage and does tremendous damage to a marriage or any relationship. There are so many things to take into consideration with D or R. In my case there have been damages that will never be restored but they have been more than compensated by the positives.

My family is so very close and that means the world to me now that I have learned to appreciate people for their good points rather than focus on their bad points. I have learned that I can do a lot better for myself if I don’t totally concentrate on the bad in someone else but instead keep improving on the bad in my life.

Cee Paul, I am not questioning that your D was not right for you. *I am just saying that for me the A was not an automatic 100% to end the marriage and to view the bad as unforgiveable.* Shoot we even kiss, hug, and laugh together sometimes!


Different strokes for different folks!


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

The-Deceived said:


> I remember when I was attempting to R with my WW. I remember every single day at work, sitting in the crapper stall, staring at the door, in utter despair. In SO much pain that I knew would never go away...that I would struggle so hard with this every day for the rest of my life. The struggle to forgive, the struggle to trust, the struggle to find love for her again, the struggle to put the pain of betrayal behind me. It was crushing my soul.
> 
> I also remember the tremendous weight that was lifted off of me when I decided to pull the plug. The pain and sadness in my eyes that went away, and was replaced with hope, relief, and ultimately, happiness.
> 
> ...


A very honest and thought provoking post.
I haven't joined in this debate as Cee Paul started this to deliberately get people going and he should be called up on it.
We all know Infidelity causes a lot of emotions to run high around here.
I still don't think one can truly say what they would do until they faced with it though. I always thought it would be a deal breaker for me until it happened 17 years and 3 kids into my marriage.
I decided to R. But a year down the line, I still don't know if its a deal breaker. It's bloody tough. Heartbreaking. But the thought of divorce is even more heartbreaking at this point. When H and I separated for 3 months my children were devastated. My DD cried for her daddy everyday, and as much as we all know that was on him, I can not bare to see her go through that again. So for now, I will keep trying. I love my H, but now I love my children more and for now their security and peace of mind comes first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

theroad said:


> Nothing wrong to disagree. Though you were short sighted in the way you responed.


LMFAO!!! 

Skimmer!


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Debate over folks!



Chris H. said:


> 5. No posting just to incite people or start arguments. (aka "trolls")


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