# Is it time to move on?



## thatguy007 (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm back, a year and a half after my last post. I came here in October 2011 with some discussion about my wife. At that time, I was strongly contemplating a divorce. We had been married about 1.5 years at that time, she had quit her job (because she got mad at her boss for pointing out that she had missed far too much work) and stopped being involved with me sexually or romantically. I had done all of the "nice guy" stuff to try to win her back over.

After my conversations here, I told her exactly where things lay as far as my dissatisfaction with the marriage. She agreed to counseling and agreed to look for a job. I set a deadline of 30 days for both the counseling and the job. 

Shortly after, she fairly seriously injured her back. It wasn't long before the 30 days was up, but at the same time, she was barely able to walk and couldn't even get up and down by herself (at 30). I thought I would be a pretty heartless bastard to chuck her on the street in that shape - and my insurance was really her only chance to get it fixed. So we went through the process ending with her finally having back surgery in late 2012. It cost quite a lot out of pocket and I've had to delay looking into some back problems of my own.

I mentioned in my previous post that we had excessive debt because we built our finances on two incomes and then she quit her job. That eventually led to a bankruptcy earlier this year which was just finalized a few weeks ago. My wife has not been working for 2 years now and has no interest in doing so. She wants to craft for a living, which I supported her in in the beginning - she works hard at it - but it's been 6 months and it's been a significant net loss every month. There still is no sexual or romantic involvement. I'm 32 and want to have children, but certainly not in this relationship the way it stands now.

At this point, I'm not sure there's anything left to salvage here. I believe in marriage, and feel like I should try to salvage things one more time... but then I feel like a sucker for sticking it out this long too. The other conundrum is that we've been married just over 3 years and I'm a little afraid that if I do file for divorce I'm going to get hammered on alimony since she has not been working for the last 2.

So, I'm looking for advice and opinions. Should I give it one more shot, or should I start making preparations for divorce?


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## Strattec (Apr 27, 2013)

I think you did enough for her during her back problems. If she doesn't give you sex and with no kids, it's probably better for you to divorce while you're still young. It gives you a chance to start new.

At 3 years, alimony shouldn't be that much if anything. You have no child support to pay for so you're lucky. Maybe 1.5 years you'll have to pay. If you're married more than 7 years, you could pay alimony forever. If you're looking to leave, now is the best time to do it, unless you see yourself happy with her in the future.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Has she been doing the counselling? And why did you back down on the job thing? She's costing you (as a family) money, rather than bringing in anything, and this is after you've already been through a bankruptcy.

Really, I'm not sure what you're trying to salvage, either... And it doesn't seem like she's wanting to do anything more than what she's doing now. The alimony thing, as pointed out, will only get worse over time. And if you ever have kids, it will get even worse than that.

C


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## thatguy007 (Jul 25, 2011)

PBear-
No, she hasn't been doing the counseling. At the time, she really wasn't able to get much of anywhere except the doctor and back home, and that only with my help - I literally had to lift her out of bed every morning. I wasn't sure how productive it would be at that time. Since she's been recovered from her back injury (about 6 months) I have discussed it with her a few times, but money has been tight especially with the added expense of her crafting. She brings that up every time and then doesn't follow up.

On the job front - some friends of hers knew her knack for crafting and encouraged her to do it - "I know so-and-so who does it and makes $40,000 a year", things like that. I thought I'd give that some time to see if it really could be profitable. After about 4 months of losses, I told her I thought it was time she started doing that as a hobby and pursue something else as a career. I've followed up several times and she's had excuses each time. 

Part of the reason I'm asking for opinions today is I'm trying to decide whether to go through the deadlines and all or if I should just start the process to move on.


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## thatguy007 (Jul 25, 2011)

Strattec said:


> If you're looking to leave, now is the best time to do it, unless you see yourself happy with her in the future.


The frustrating thing is that there are circumstances in which we could be happy. We still get along reasonably well and have quite a lot of interests in common. She had a gay roommate before we got together and it's a bit like being her roommate - platonic buddies who happen to live together. If we could get the big stressors - money and sex - together, I think we could be very happy. I just haven't seen any sign that they're going to change in any way.

Thanks for both your responses.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

I hate to be blunt,but do you want to be like some of us
TAM members 20 yrs down the line.Many of us give,give
but never get what we need.We have a selfish spouse,
who is perfectly happy in a one sided marriage.

My advice is get out while your young and have no kids.
You really think she will change?
She assumes you won't ever leave.

The hardest part is admitting that we choose the wrong
person to be with.

The second is having the courage to leave them and
find someone who will truly love us and not always 
use us up.

Oh and don't kid yourself.If you never get intimacy
it will cause anger and resentment to where you
will start to hate her.I live it.


Good Luck


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I think you did the right thing with respect to her back injury. You stuck with her and saw her through it all. Interesting she doesn't seem to have much gratitude. 

Maybe it's time to sit her down and just lay it on the line- you don't want to be platonic friends, you want a loving screwing wife. If she wants to be just friends, divorce her amiably and let it go at that. If she tells you she wants a loving marriage relationship then proofs in the pudding.


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## thatguy007 (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks again for the input, all of you. nevergveup, I think you're right about not wanting to be in the same boat in 20 years, which is why I want to address this right now. I think the clock is ticking on the marriage and on my time to maybe start over. I do plan to get this resolved very soon.



thatbpguy said:


> Maybe it's time to sit her down and just lay it on the line- you don't want to be platonic friends, you want a loving screwing wife. If she wants to be just friends, divorce her amiably and let it go at that. If she tells you she wants a loving marriage relationship then proofs in the pudding.


I think this is a good approach for me - just bluntly say either this is what we're going to be now, or it's not and it's time to move on now.

There is still the job thing, but if the sex isn't there that doesn't matter. We have a 4 day vacation scheduled next week. I think I'll talk with my wife tomorrow night and then give it through the vacation to see if anything changes. If it does, then I'll bring up the job again. If not, it answers itself I think.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So basically, you've backed down on all your ultimatums and boundaries. Teaching her that you can safely be ignored.

If you want a roommate, you can probably find someone who will contribute to the bills a lot better than your "wife" currently does. If you want a friend, get out and make some. The woman you're currently living with does not have to fill those roles. Her promise was to be your wife, and she's not living up to that promise.

C


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## thatguy007 (Jul 25, 2011)

PBear said:


> So basically, you've backed down on all your ultimatums and boundaries. Teaching her that you can safely be ignored.


Yes, I agree that I have done that. Some of it with reason, but a lot of it not. I set ultimatums before the back injury, but since she's been healthy it's been - here are the facts, here's why we need you to contribute - which clearly has had no effect. I hoped she would be changed after a year of me really doing a lot for her. She has not been.

Do you think that my current plan is continuing that? I've never said the word 'divorce' before, and I thought I would just lay it on the line: We either are going to be a husband and wife, starting right now, or we're going to get divorced right now - I think that's a pretty clear ultimatum... I'm in the situation though, so please do tell me if you see it differently. I came here for advice and am willing to listen.


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## Strattec (Apr 27, 2013)

Personally, if I was in your situation, I would divorce. Once a woman refuses to have sex, nothing's really going to change her mind. I once had separated from my wife for different reasons. One of them was we didn't have enough sex. We got back together, but one of my conditions was we would have more sex. Now it's about 2 to 3 times a week which is tolerable for me. She does it more for our marriage.

If your wife doesn't have that attitude, it's time to cut her loose.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Your previous boundaries were pretty clear as well, and they've been pushed aside. Why would new ones be any different? You can lay them out if you like, but she's already proven that she doesn't want to change. But if it makes you feel like you're doing all you can do to try to save your marriage, go ahead.

Personally, I'd tell her that you're done. Let her know why. Let HER come up with any suggestions for fixing things, and let HER prove that she's serious about changing. Let her start pulling some of the weight of fixing the relationship. My best is still on the fact that any changes she makes will be temporary at best, if not merely words and not actions.

In the meantime... Read up on "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Married Man's Sex Life Primer". Start practicing them. If nothing else, they will prepare you for your next relationship.

C


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## Kimberley17 (Oct 10, 2011)

I say before you divorce you have nothing to lose by giving her the ultimatum... we become husband and wife or shut this down. You will know pretty quickly if things will change and this way you will know you've tried absolutly everything. JMO


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

I agree with the others, get out, as fast as you can. She's a leech. It will only get worse from here. Trust me, I KNOW. Like others, I live it. I'm actually trapped in the most miserable existence of a marriage possible. I still think about leaving, although the mere thought is nearly unthinkable (have a disabled child who needs us both). My wife has hardly worked 10% of the 12 years we've been married, and while I used to defend her and argue that she was needed to care for our child, she never really cared as much as ignored us both. Do you really want to end up like that? My words alone should scare you into a motel room or friends house tonight.

Leave her asap. Get the paperwork done asap. You are still plenty young and at that age, it shouldn't be a problem finding a woman who is ready to make babies on the fast-track program.


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## thatguy007 (Jul 25, 2011)

Thought I would come back and follow up. We had a very honest conversation for the first time in a long time that night, and we agreed to divorce. I actually respect her more after that because she finally came out and said what I think she had been thinking for a long time.

Basically, what she said came down to this: There are a lot of things that she wants to do/achieve, and she's known for a while that she needs to be on her own to do them. The problem is that I've done a lot for her and she cares for me so she kept trying to force herself to be the person she thought I wanted her to be - namely, working a regular job and being a wife, including sexually. She's been fighting it out with herself and my repeated pushes on those subjects forced her to make a decision. She told me several times that she feels very guilty for the drain on my finances and my lost time as far as finding someone who'll be that wife.

So, I've hired an attorney and he's working up the papers. She requested no support/payments, and while I could do that, every situation she could go into right now is going to place a financial burden on her and them. I offered a manageable payment for 6 months to help her get established and she agreed so that's how the papers are being drawn up. I feel that's more for me than her - I can sleep easy at night knowing she's got every chance to get back on her feet. The rest will be up to her, and while she seems to want my opinion on what she should do next, I'm staying out of it.

We're still living together for another week or so while she gets all her stuff moved out. It's been painful and awkward but amicable thus far. I really think it's the best thing for all involved. It is indeed time to move on...


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Good for you both for being honest!


...don't accidentally knock her up with any last-minute/goodbye fling!


BTW: Have you read the two books Pbear recommended? (NMMNG & MMSLP) If not, get on it!

.


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## thatguy007 (Jul 25, 2011)

I have not read those books. I've read some references to them here. I did make note of them though and plan to pick those up in the next couple of weeks.

And no worries on the last minute thing - good advice though!


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

Might I ask how she plans to support herself, where's she going? And what are these things she needs to accomplish that she cannot do with you in her life? Sounds bizarre


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## thatguy007 (Jul 25, 2011)

Kaboom said:


> Might I ask how she plans to support herself, where's she going? And what are these things she needs to accomplish that she cannot do with you in her life? Sounds bizarre


Yeah, I don't think she really has solid plans as far as how she's going to support herself. She's trying to get a job as a stewardess (or whatever the PC term is now) and has a (gay) friend in another city who thinks he can help her with that. If not that... who knows. I think she's going to move in with her parents or friends while she tries to find her way. That's why I offered payments - she doesn't seem to be planning much and I felt better making sure she at least would be able to survive for a while.

Essentially it boils down to this - she was valedictorian of her high school class, won some academic awards and was supposed to have her college paid for by her well-off grandmother. Her grandmother remarried, the college payments dried up, her family was poor (as was mine FWIW) and eventually she had to stop going to school to support herself. She never went back and feels like she needs to accomplish something - either career or education or both - to feel like she's worthwhile. The kicker is, she believes she has to do it on her own or else it's just someone else doing it for her, more or less. It's not the most logical argument, but it's actually something she talked about when we first started dating so it's been in her mind a long time. I talked to her off and on for about 2 days about how almost everybody has a lot of help, but I could tell she had no interest in hearing that. It very much seems her mind is made up on the matter.

I think I'm bad for her in that respect. I made it by myself. I'm a high school dropout from a difficult upbringing and now I've made a very nice career as a technology executive. It took a long time, some tough times, and a lot of hard work. I actually got a big promotion just before this all went down. I think she sees me and says "he did it on his own, why can't I?"

The other factor is that she's from a very small town and everybody there knows her and remembers the academic recognition she received. She goes back often and people remind her of it and it stings. I understand that, but I can't understanding caring so much what a small town thinks that I would base my whole life around it. It matters very much to her though.

If this is how she wants things, well, best of luck to her. It's better for both of us to move on.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

It sounds like you have done the right thing and am glad to hear you are moving, it will be best for both of you.

As far as her career goes i think her issue is not education but motivation. Some people just have that drive to succeed, its not something you can learn in a classroom, its just who you are.


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