# Need Advise...Please



## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

Is this emotional infidelity, physical, infidelity, or nothing at all?
A few years ago, my wife was working at a nursing home as a nurse practitioner. In her role she commonly spoke with a male pharmacist, employed by the same company, but located at a different site. It was common for nurses and staff to call her at home after work, and for her to walk out of the room during the phone conversations, which I thought nothing of. 
Then, while at a 4th of July celebration, my wife told me about this male pharmacist that worked for the company and how they had become friends. She told me that he was Gay, and that he hated the life style. She also told me that he said he wished that he could quit the life style and he and her move away and start all over. I told her that I thought this to be inappropriate, and I did not like her talking to him. 
One night, as I was working on a report for her, she received a phone call and went outside, I became curious and went out the backdoor and around the house to hear her side of the conversation. She was laughing and talking. When she came in I asked who she was talking to and she again told me the pharmacist. I got upset and said that she should not be talking to him, and that it was wrong. She told me that she had rather talk to him than me. After an argument, I finished her report and hope that this would be the end of it. 
Then a month or so later I came home from work early to surprise my wife, son and his friend by going to the lake with them, which she had planned. When I got there she was very glad, and asked me to take the kids to the lake, as she needed to stop by her work first, then would be there asap. Disappointed that she would not be there the whole time, I took the kids to the lake, and waited for her to arrive. 3 hours later she was still not there and the beach closed. We went home, and I called my wife’s phone several times, with no answer, then after what seemed like calling 50 times, her phone was answered. A male’s voice said hello, then he it was hung up, and additional calls were not answered. I then called the nursing home and was told that no one had seen my wife in the facility, that afternoon and that they did not believe her to be there. 
A few minutes later she called me and said she was on her way home. I asked her where she had been and she said the nursing home, but when I told her that wasn’t true, she said she went to the main corporate office work pick up some medication, and had got me a gift as well. She denied that a male answered her phone, and shared nothing about what she actually did. 
She left that position a few months later, and I was glad, since I did not want her to continue to be in the environment, and was not sure if, or what went on. I do not know if this male is gay or not, and I have never met him.
In her new job she, as far as I knew, had not contact with him. Then one day my son and I was too meet her after work, and go to dinner. AS she was busy, it was common for her to be late leaving work. As time approached for her to leave, she called me and ask that I take my son on home, because she was much busier than expected, which was a big change from the conversation on the phone 30 minutes prior. 
A day or two later, I happen to look at the texts on her phone and found that this pharmacist came by where she worked about 10 minutes before she was supposed to leave. I also found that she was supposed to have met him earlier that day, but did not make the meeting, and I assume that was why he was not coming by at closing time. I do not know what they were meeting about. And, I do not know if she commonly meets with him. 
Needless to say, we had a big argument over this, and in the end, she said that it was all business, that the company (nursing home) was opening a new clinic. And, that he was meeting with her to see how to do the drug labels. I found that very strange, why a pharmacist would need to meet with a nurse practitioner on how to do drug labels, since that is in his arena, not hers. 
After a lengthy argument, we finally moved forward, and I hope that she would no longer continue this friendship. I also looked at her phone periodically, and have found not texts between them. She does not have his name stored, but I did remember the number he texts her from before. 
She later told me that she was friends with him, because they both disliked the owner of the nursing home company. I told her I though it strange if they both disliked hi, that they would be meeting to start a clinic in which the person they both do not like would own. 
Now, last week, which has been about 4 months since she met with him at her work, when we were supposed to be going to dinner, I was looking at her phone. We had both just upgraded our phones, and I was merely trying to adjust some settings while she was seeing a patient. She received a new message while I was looking at her phone, which was from the pharmacist. The content of the message came across the screen without me actually having to open it. It read “Don’t waste my $70 dollars!!! Schedule an appointment at European Body Works.” When she came back and I gave her back her phone, I told her that I read the message as it came across the screen. I knew it to be his number, which she does not realize that I knew who sent the message. She read the message but made no commit. Two days later I asked her what the message was about. She responded that someone had bought her a gift certificate, then hesitated, and told me it was the pharmacist. She then went on that I had not right to get mad, and that people buy her gift certificates all the time. 
I bit my lip, and spent much time in prayer, not know what to say or do at this point. Finally, this past Saturday morning I told her that I found this relationship to be totally inappropriate, and that it was inappropriate for him to buy and for her to accept a gift certificate from this man. She told me that he gave it to her for helping him with the labels, and that she gets gift certificates from people often. I told her that yes, she has got gift certificates before, but that she has always told me about them. Yet this gift certificate, for a spa, which I feel myself in an intimate type gift certificate was kept secret from me. I told her that it is wrong, and extremely inappropriate. We did not argue, which was good. But she made no promises that she would not continue to talk with, meet, or text this man. 
Now, I apologize for the long story, but I am confused, worried, upset sad and hurt. Am I wrong in feeling this? IF so, please tell me. If I have a friend, I make sure my wife meets him, and I never have a female close friend. I have never met him, and he might very well be gay, but I am confused. What should I do? Am I wrong for thinking this is an inappropriate friendship? Is this emotional infidelity? Should I ignore it and continue as normal?


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> She told me that he was Gay, and that he hated the life style. She also told me that he said he wished that he could quit the life style and he and her move away and start all over.


How did she deliver this information? like he was joking about moving away? I assume he was joking or else she wouldn't have told you.


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

The way she told me this was that he disliked his life, and that he had sincerely asked her this. She then told me that she responded to him that his idea would never work. But, she did not imply to me that it was a joking statement made by him. 

The biggest concern is the secrecy in what she tells me is nothing more than a friend. She has never shared anything else about him, has not offered to introduce me to him, etc.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

A lot of red flags sir. The "gay" statement is usually a ploy to throw you off the scent. However, adding he "hated the lifestyle" is not the norm. Be that as it may, someone on the fence with their sexuality is often confused(my experience with my gay nephew who stated he hates that he is gay.) At any rate, she is not being very open about the relationship. I recommend laying low and keep tabs on her activity. The possibility of bi-sexual "friend" is ever present.


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

I feel like I have been laying low and keeping tabs. I know that the only reason I found out about the gift certificate was that the phone was in my hand when it was received. If she had seen it first, the message would have been deleted. Since this was the first text I have seen from his number in a while, I have to assume that she gets them more often, but they are deleted. If she receives more messages, and if she doesn't know that she can delete just the particular message and not the entire conversation, I might be able to confirm this. In other words, if she deletes the conversation then I will know for sure that there are more texts. But if she doesn't delete the conversation I will can confirm that she doesn't continue the conversation, since parts of the conversation can be deleted, leaving only what I have read. Since I also work, and am not near her, I have no other means of knowing what is happening. So, yes I am laying low, but I am also in the dark.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

No need to apologize for your lengthy post. Details help.

This pharmacist is NOT gay.

They are either entangled in an EA or possibly a PA...

The "He is gay" statement is a ruse... oldest trick in a cheater's books.

I think you realize you have much to worry about.

My advice is to check out Weightlifter's post (below). He is the "Governor" around TAM, always clued in to what constitutes cheating and what does not. I can tell you, MY radar is WAY up... I can only surmise what Weightlifter is thinking at this point... I think he will be along shortly to weigh(*tlifter)* in soon...

I would suggest you employ every one of his tactics. Read them carefully. Purchase the items you need. You are not wrong to think something is "up"...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> The way she told me this was that he disliked his life, and that he had sincerely asked her this.


yeah, if someone (straight man/gay man/gay woman/talking donkey) asks your spouse to move away with them to start a new life together, that's a huge issue. 

She turned him down because 'it wouldn't work', and not because, you know, she's married!?!

what kind of phone? you need to get an undelete program stat! (wondershare dr. fone, etc)


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on abbreviations. What is a EA and PA?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

EA is emotional affair. PA is physical affair.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> Am I wrong for thinking this is an inappropriate friendship?


No, gay or not, this friendship is inappropriate because she is confiding in him more than you. 



worried1234 said:


> Is this emotional infidelity?


Yes, for the same reason above. No one, and I mean NO ONE, should have your spouse's "ear" more than you do. He does.



worried1234 said:


> Should I ignore it and continue as normal?


Absolutely NOT, you should not ignore it!! Gay or not, this man is a threat to your intimacy. The kinds of conversations she is having with him should be reserved for spouses.

Job sh*t or not, she should be leaning on YOUR shoulder, not HIS.

Gay, my a$$.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> I feel like I have been laying low and keeping tabs. I know that the only reason I found out about the gift certificate was that the phone was in my hand when it was received. If she had seen it first, the message would have been deleted. Since this was the first text I have seen from his number in a while, I have to assume that she gets them more often, but they are deleted. If she receives more messages, and if she doesn't know that she can delete just the particular message and not the entire conversation, I might be able to confirm this. In other words, if she deletes the conversation then I will know for sure that there are more texts. But if she doesn't delete the conversation I will can confirm that she doesn't continue the conversation, since parts of the conversation can be deleted, leaving only what I have read. Since I also work, and am not near her, I have no other means of knowing what is happening. So, yes I am laying low, but I am also in the dark.


Who has control of the online phone account? Can you see the number number of texts, time and from what number? 

Get a keylogger program on the computer. 

What kind of phone does she have?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> No, gay or not, this friendship is inappropriate because she is confiding in him more than you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

She has definately crossed a line and her contact with him needs to end. Ask her how she would feel if you had a simular relationship with a woman. If she says she would be ok with it. I'm afraid you need to find someone else with morals closer to your own. 

If you both have iPhones, you can have every text that goes to her phone sent to yours. 

Ray
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

She has a Samsung phone. I have the account through sprint. Sprint does not keep record of texts by number that can be access on line, or the content of the texts. They only keep a record of the number of texts sent/received, but not by phone number.
I can order a transcript of the texts, but she receives/send over a thousand texts per month. 

I do have the ability to look at phone numbers that she has called and received on line, and I have not seen his cell phone number on the list. 

The number can of course be blocked, and it would show up as unknown on the list.


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

> Ask her how she would feel if you had a simular relationship with a woman. If she says she would be ok with it.


I did ask her how she would feel if I had a female friend that bought me a gift like that, or if I bought another woman a gift certificate to a spa. She laughed and said that I don't have a friend that would buy me a gift certificate. Well, she is correct in that part. I do not have a close relationship with a female outside of my marriage.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

worried1234 said:


> I did ask her how she would feel if I had a female friend that bought me a gift like that, or if I bought another woman a gift certificate to a spa. She laughed and said that I don't have a friend that would buy me a gift certificate. Well, she is correct in that part. I do not have a close relationship with a female outside of my marriage.


It's not just the spa thing. What if you had a relationship with a woman where you were taking calls in private and constantly lying about being in contact with them.

Ray
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> I do have the ability to look at phone numbers that she has called and received on line, and I have not seen his cell phone number on the list.


he could have another number through google voice, textme, burner phone, work cell phone, etc. or they could be using a texting/chat app like kik, whatsapp, viber, and so on.

get an android undelete program and see what really is going on.

hiding communications, even if they are just platonic, is super sketchy, and very well could be a cover story.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

ReidWright said:


> he could have another number through google voice, textme, burner phone, work cell phone, etc. or they could be using a texting/chat app like kik, whatsapp, viber, and so on.
> 
> get an android undelete program and see what really is going on.
> 
> hiding communications, even if they are just platonic, is super sketchy, and very well could be a cover story.


:iagree:
You need a voice activated recorder in her car asap and if you could a pen var for her purse because something is going on when he stops by at work.
Next time she tells you to drive home you should really stop by and check on her.
Too many red flags here.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> She has a Samsung phone. I have the account through sprint. Sprint does not keep record of texts by number that can be access on line, or the content of the texts. They only keep a record of the number of texts sent/received, but not by phone number.
> I can order a transcript of the texts, but she receives/send over a thousand texts per month.
> 
> I do have the ability to look at phone numbers that she has called and received on line, and I have not seen his cell phone number on the list.
> ...


1000 plus texts is overly communicative IMO. Sadly to who these are going to are not logged as you stated. 



worried1234 said:


> I did ask her how she would feel if I had a female friend that bought me a gift like that, or if I bought another woman a gift certificate to a spa. She laughed and said that I don't have a friend that would buy me a gift certificate. Well, she is correct in that part. I do not have a close relationship with a female outside of my marriage.


Glad she got a friggin kick out your question. She did not answer it though. You are being gaslighted into thinking all is on the up and up. Nothing wrong. It's all in your head. 

However, you know there is a problem. Keep digging.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Yeswecan said:


> 1000 plus texts is overly communicative IMO. Sadly to who these are going to are not logged as you stated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you need to get said friend and read MMSLP.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well since nothing is going on tell her she is going for a polygraph not to really take one but to see her reaction.


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

when I question herhow about this she implies that I am wrong in doing so, and that I am allowing the devil To enter
My life and cause me to question her about something that is innocent.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

worried1234 said:


> when I question herhow about this she implies that I am wrong in doing so, and that I am allowing the devil To enter
> My life and cause me to question her about something that is innocent.


She is gaslighting you by saying this.
Var in her car strapped with heavy velcro you may get some answers.


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

she even told me that by me questioning her about this means that I am hurting our marriage.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

worried1234 said:


> The way she told me this was that he disliked his life, and that he had sincerely asked her this. She then told me that she responded to him that his idea would never work. But, she did not imply to me that it was a joking statement made by him.
> 
> The biggest concern is the secrecy in what she tells me is nothing more than a friend. She has never shared anything else about him, has not offered to introduce me to him, etc.


Take her up on this offer to see him and give him a very firm hand shake.
Seriously read their body language. OBSERVE.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

worried1234 said:


> she even told me that by me questioning her about this means that I am hurting our marriage.


You should stop talking about it for now you look whiney and weak imo.
It should be PI mode now.
Time for a trusted friend or PI to check up on her.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

So...what's your story? Are you a SAHD? Does your wife make more money than you? Are you a "nice guy"? Does your wife get her way more often than not? Is she in better shape than you?

These are the types of questions you'll get from someone that will shortly afterwards start pimping MMSLP. Don't worry, you'll see them come your way soon. While I'm not a fan (but honestly, never read it either), I do believe that if there is too much of an inequity between the two of you that one spouse CAN take this as justification to not respect the other spouse. So in a situation where your wife is the "better catch" she may not be taking your pain seriously, and who knows she may think the pharmacist is a better man than you. I have no idea.

One thing that makes me think she REALLY doesn't repsect you is that she basically told you that guys hit on her all the time while you don't get hit on at all. When you tried to turn the tables asking her how she would feel if a female showed you attention and bought you gifts, your wife told you that it wouldn't happen to you so the point is moot. BAD, BAD sign IMHO.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> when I question herhow about this she implies that I am wrong in doing so, and that I am allowing the devil To enter
> My life and cause me to question her about something that is innocent.





worried1234 said:


> she even told me that by me questioning her about this means that I am hurting our marriage.


Yes, more gaslighting. Look, the gut feeling is right 99.99% of the time. 

What is your gut telling you?

Now be vigilant and quiet about it. Drop the subject for now. VAR the car.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> So...what's your story? Are you a SAHD? Does your wife make more money than you? Are you a "nice guy"? Does your wife get her way more often than not? Is she in better shape than you?
> 
> These are the types of questions you'll get from someone that will shortly afterwards start pimping MMSLP. Don't worry, you'll see them come your way soon. While I'm not a fan (but honestly, never read it either), I do believe that if there is too much of an inequity between the two of you that one spouse CAN take this as justification to not respect the other spouse. So in a situation where your wife is the "better catch" she may not be taking your pain seriously, and who knows she may think the pharmacist is a better man than you. I have no idea.
> 
> One thing that makes me think she REALLY doesn't repsect you is that she basically told you that guys hit on her all the time while you don't get hit on at all. When you tried to turn the tables asking her how she would feel if a female showed you attention and bought you gifts, your wife told you that it wouldn't happen to you so the point is moot. BAD, BAD sign IMHO.


She also told him she would rather talk to the pharmacist than him.

You do need to read the mmslp book and you both need to read the other book linked to below after you investigate this.

The fact a man answered her phone when she went missing is close to a hundred percent certainty she has been unfaithful.

The thing is, you have no real idea about when they may meet or anything else. You already know she has lied to you about him. That means you can believe nothing she says without verifing it yourself. You cant even assume she doesn't meet him when she is supposed to be working.

Get a couple of sony voice activated recorders at walmart or bestbuy that cost fifty to sixty dollars a piece. Get heavy duty velcro and stick one under her drivers seat. Put the other one in the house for when she is there alone or where she goes when she answers her phone and walks away.

To be honest, she is acting and talking like a very experienced cheater.

On a 1-10 scale how would you rate your wife and yourself?

Using your religion to gaslight you is unworthy and a common cheater tactic.

As mentioned before stay quiet and investigate. Prepare for bad news though. There are about as many redflags as anyone has shown here.

Has your sexlife changed since pharmacy boy showed up? More or less?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

IMO God wants you to be a moral person, but in addition be in control of your marriage. be more willing to lose her than she is to lose you - the proposition from which all good outcomes in such situations flow froim...


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

During that time frame when she was working woth the same company our sex life was nit great. Recently it has improved, but he just bought her a gift certificate for a spa and she has met him at least once this past couple of months. Our sex life improved after we argued about her meeting him at work. And bi just found out about this gift two days ago.


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

she also shared with me two weeks ago that while she was working with the company in which she was communicating with this pharmacist that she had considered leaving me. She did not mention the pharmacist or talk about why she thought about leaving at that time.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

worried1234 said:


> she even told me that by me questioning her about this means that I am hurting our marriage.


No, she is. You have every right to protect your marriage, just what is she protecting...?

Man up, read MMSLP now. Get into 007 mode and spy. Mcollect evidence, keep copies of everything.

Me thinks she's cheating. Opposite sex friends don't end well. Book for her. Not just friends...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Find the gift and tear it up. In front of her. Own this.

You'll get better help moving this thread to CWI. Contact a mod to move it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Was your sex life good before the pharmacist came into the picture? 

Gernerally, when a partner cheats, sexlife with a spouse goes down, sometimes up but rarely stays the same unless their sex life was already bad.

Everything you add seems to put another nail in the coffin.

Did you ask her why she was considering divorcing you? Were you shocked by this? Were you shocked when she told you she would rather talk to him?

It doesn't sound like she is to into your marriage.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Wow, as a woman, I think your wife is totally playing you  Sounds to me like she is cheating. I am almost sure of it. Your responses to those red flags have not been strong enough. She doesn't respect you and she isn't afraid of getting caught because you are being passive about her behavior and letting completely inappropriate actions slide. She is literally lying to your face and you are doing nothing about it. Those 3 hours she went missing, she was probably sleeping with the other man and you let it slide. Next time something fishy happens, blast her @ss about it and make it clear you will file for divorce if she pulls any BS or tries to lie about it. I also agree with others, you should investigate this and be ready to walk away from the marriage if you do find evidence of her cheating. No married woman/man should have a close friend from the opposite gender. Especially a coworker!! I am sorry you are dealing with this.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Sounds like she lost all respect for you as a mate.

You are showing her weak traits and she is trampling all over you. 

When your frozen by fear of an outcome, you have already lost.

Time to detach, grow some self-confidence and show her that you can be fine.

Already she has no issues at lying at you. She doesn't fear any consequences, because she knows she can placate you.

She is probably being taken by a male she sees more as alpha.

Someone more assertive, takes charge, and has confidence.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Sounds like she lost all respect for you as a mate.
> 
> You are showing her weak traits and she is trampling all over you.
> 
> ...


Yep get the MMSLP book it is around $11.
Get it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK here are my observations:


You have every right to be worried. She has been (and is) behaving very inappropriately. Crossing boundaries all the time.

She had and it sounds like she still is having an affair. Definitely emotional and from what you have said, high chance it went physical. So she cheated.

From everything you have said that she said, she is rewriting marital history to justify her adulterous behaviour. Like, "I was thinking of leaving you" etc. Also she is tricking you into thinking this was all your fault and that you questioning her is "hurting" your marriage. She is the only one that is hurting your marriage.

She is being very disrespectful to you and your kids. She even mocked you and implied that she has someone who will give her gifts and you don't. Also, she said that she preferred to talk to him and not you. etc. etc.

She has already put him before you, your children and the marriage in general. This means that she is very emotionally attached to him and this has gone underground big time.

And, he doesn't sound GAY AT ALL!

So, what do you do:


Prepare yourself to be really hurt because the chances are high that you are going to discover her cheating and it will be tough.

Prepare to be blamed completely. Also she will make you out to be an a$$hole to her friends and family to justify her actions.

Do not confront anymore. Go quiet and use Weightlifters thread on gathering evidence to get more evidence which you should secure somewhere offsite. Keyloggers, VARs in the car and home, even a PI if you need one. 

Once you have the evidence and your ducks in a row, file for divorce (even if you don't go through with it later), confront and expose at the same time. Get tested for STI's and DNA test your kids (even if you are sure they are yours) for maximum effect!

While gathering evidence, consult an attorney so that you know your rights and are in a position to protect your assets, custody of your kids etc.

When you do expose, expose to family, friends and even work if it makes sense. Get the other man fired if possible. Post him on Cheaterville and let us help you drive the number of hits up, so that the CV link comes up whenever anyone Googles his name. This will impact his employability. Make sure her family and friends understand what she did so that she doesn't have everyone believing that you did something wrong.

 Once exposure takes place, prepare for the backlash and all kinds of reactions - even begging from her to take her back. Do not even consider reconciliation until she accepts complete blame, goes completely no contact with the OM, gives you complete access to her communications and whereabouts, and does all the heavy lifting to help you heal.

Look after yourself physically and mentally. Once you expose, do the 180 (there is a link to a list of what you must do) to help yourself heal. Exercise and go for a newer better look (haircut, clothes etc).

Good luck, stay vigilant and strong. And prepare yourself!


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## worried1234 (Nov 10, 2014)

What does MMLSP stand for.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Married Man Sex Life Primer


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hire a PI to get your evidence.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> Hire a PI to get your evidence.


A PI would be nice. Considering the money and what he says however, a couple ov VARs would probably do the trick with in two or three days. Unless of course their just friends with occasional benifits.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

she is cheating


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

worried1234 said:


> she even told me that by me questioning her about this means that I am hurting our marriage.


What a shame you did not respond in kind "I believe you have put me in this position. And you have consciously hurt our marriage by placing me, your husband in this position."


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