# How many arguments is normal, getting to that point



## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

I have a wife who is literally incapable of resolving conflict without yelling and crying. We've been married for 2 1/2 years and everything is always my fault. It's BS. She is Chinese but living in a 'Western' Country. She threatened to leave me if I didn't let her parents live with us for 6 months after we married. I agreed and it was hell as I have literally nothing in common with them and I speak limited Chinese. Certainly not enough to understand them. 

I wanted a small wedding, she wanted a nice fancy one. It cost more than I could afford and had to borrow money from my parents. She then wanted another ceremony in China, I reluctantly agreed and then I get sh#t for my parents not contributing. Her culture expects in-laws to be on-call babysitters. That's how it works in China, so when my parents want to live their remaining years holidaying and enjoying themselves she takes it as my parents don't care about looking after their grandson. She literally hates my parents because she thinks they control me and I listen to them and not her. I agree that I shouldn't secretly talk to my parents about her behind her back. But I need alternative opinion on things, a connection that I can't seem to get with her. They are considering cutting her off completely. My wife says she doesn't want to talk to them. 

During an argument she questioned why she even needs me anymore since she's capable of surviving without my salary (she works also). We sleep in separate beds, I do most of the cleaning. I really want to make this work as we have a the greatest 2yo son. But how much sh#t can a guy take ? I will say she is a great attentive mother but am I wrong to seek advice from my parents about these marriage issues ? I offered to go to marriage counseling and she declined on the grounds that the councilor wont understand especially because of the cultural differences. There is too much at stake to just end it. I feel I could bounce back as I don't need the stress from her and am strong my own. It's the thought of hurting my son that haunts me. I love him so much and want to make this work.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Kiki123 said:


> I have a wife who is literally incapable of resolving conflict without yelling and crying. We've been married for 2 1/2 years and everything is always my fault. It's BS. She is Chinese but living in a 'Western' Country. She threatened to leave me if I didn't let her parents live with us for 6 months after we married. I agreed and it was hell as I have literally nothing in common with them and I speak limited Chinese. Certainly not enough to understand them.
> 
> I wanted a small wedding, she wanted a nice fancy one. It cost more than I could afford and had to borrow money from my parents. She then wanted another ceremony in China, I reluctantly agreed and then I get sh#t for my parents not contributing. Her culture expects in-laws to be on-call babysitters. That's how it works in China, so when my parents want to live their remaining years holidaying and enjoying themselves she takes it as my parents don't care about looking after their grandson. She literally hates my parents because she thinks they control me and I listen to them and not her. I agree that I shouldn't secretly talk to my parents about her behind her back. But I need alternative opinion on things, a connection that I can't seem to get with her. They are considering cutting her off completely. My wife says she doesn't want to talk to them.
> 
> During an argument she questioned why she even needs me anymore since she's capable of surviving without my salary (she works also). We sleep in separate beds, I do most of the cleaning. I really want to make this work as we have a the greatest 2yo son. But how much sh#t can a guy take ? I will say she is a great attentive mother but am I wrong to seek advice from my parents about these marriage issues ? I offered to go to marriage counseling and she declined on the grounds that the councilor wont understand especially because of the cultural differences. There is too much at stake to just end it. I feel I could bounce back as I don't need the stress from her and am strong my own. It's the thought of hurting my son that haunts me. I love him so much and want to make this work.


*Would she possibly go to a neutral marriage counselor if you suggested it?

Are you attending church together or are you also of different religious backgrounds?*


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## Dennis omy9 (Jan 1, 2018)

Hey buddy, Sorry for you  Be brave and be a man at a time. There's a say they say 'change the girl if you can't change the girl'. Though you have two children, it's hard to decide. Yet it should be disposed as soon as possible. I apologize if I hurt you


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## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

To be honest she follows no religion and I'm a Christian although I don't actively goto church. FYI we have 1 child not 2. I could attempt to offer a neutral councellor, a Chinese person who understands and respects both cultures. The idea is to find common ground. Very hard to find that at present.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

I would run like forest Gump!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Kiki123 said:


> To be honest she follows no religion and I'm a Christian although I don't actively go to church. FYI we have 1 child not 2. I could attempt to offer a neutral councellor, a Chinese person who understands and respects both cultures. The idea is to find common ground. Very hard to find that at present.


*Then I'd recommend a good Chinese Christian counselor!

Go online or check with a good local church! 

If you feel like you need to, you may want to schedule yourself an exploratory session with a good seasoned family law attorney to advise you of both your custodial as well as property rights! *


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

We all have different standards, but I would not tolerate a spouse that yelled at me. If it happened, I would expect an apology for the yelling and would expect a strong effort to not do it again. I've been married for a quarter of a century and my wife and I have argued many times, but never have we raised our voices at each other.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I don't know much about Chinese culture - do you? 



Kiki123 said:


> She threatened to leave me if I didn't let her parents live with us for 6 months after we married. I agreed
> ...Her culture expects in-laws to be on-call babysitters.





> I agree that I shouldn't secretly talk to my parents about her behind her back. ....My wife says she doesn't want to talk to them.


This seems kind of weird and inconsistent. She believes in being very close to her family, talking to them, living with them, having a second marriage ceremony for them, but doesn't want you (or her) to talk to yours?

I'd agree with her that you shouldn't be doing much of anything "secretly" from her. 

I was married to a woman who came from a very "close" family, and had to accept a lot of visiting, advice-giving, requirements for me to "help" them in various ways, etc etc etc, but she never tried to distance me from my own family.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

OP, you have been played. You brought a Chinese woman into your country by marrying her. Then you gave her an anchor baby. In the meantime you have then brought her parents into your country and now she is demanding you cut off communications with your parents. She yells at you, uses you as a baby sitter and cleaning service. She has gotten everything she needs to out of you and now you being treated as a servant.
I am not sure, as you didn't mention any of this, but it sounds as though perhaps she is some sort of mail order bride? 
Your issue is that you have been used. Used by her to gain access to your country for her and her family.
It is unfortunate, but if I were you, I would get a divorce ASAP, fight for sole custody of my child and try to move on with your life.
Your life is not going to get better. No amount of marriage counseling is going to "fix" your marriage. She didn't marry you for all the reasons that most westerners get married (despite what she may have said). She married you to get out of China and into wherever you are. She has accomplished that, now she does not need you.
Wake up!


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Sounds dreadful situation indeed, some cultures are more passionate than others when it comes to disputes but if there's no try to find common ground then its just doesn't work.

It sounds financially you guys are stressed, or maybe just you? You mentioned that she said can make it on her own with her salary, maybe she needs to actually feel such possibilities ?

Do you believe she still loves you? Is sex still constant?
Perhaps you need to shock her back into reality and get a divorce papers and put them in front of her and tell her how its going to be from now on, well speak to a laywer first and see what are your options if she persists with her rudely manner.

Just yesterdsy I was online looking at some fancy contemporary mid century furniture which makes me very happy to look at, as I was gazing I made a comment, and clearly stated how taken I use to be in my younger years dreaming of owning such furniture in my own flat. 
She replied you can still have those things in your own space. Without missing a beat, calmly I said where are you and kids will live! She said nothing with a half smirk on her face and looked away. I belive she missed understood what I was saying or did not fully hear me.

You have to show her certain things just do matter to you as much as it does to her. 

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## DoneAndDoner (Jan 27, 2018)

(This is a long one!!)

Sorry you're experiencing this turmoil. I felt compelled to respond because I'm Chinese myself, but born in the US, yet still understand the culture well. I am also considering divorce and have two small children that are the main reason I have not left yet. And I basically share a room with them.

I agree that cultural differences can be difficult and in many circumstances, it takes acceptance and appreciation for the other culture to make the marriage work. My husband is Japanese, also born in the US, and while our cultures share many similarities, including prioritizing family, there are still tremendous differences in the way we were raised as a result of our respective cultures that is causing a lot of conflict in our marriage.

My husband also refuses to go to couples counseling, even when I suggested he find a therapist that suited him (i.e. male, Japanese), so I went on my own to answer probably a lot of the same questions you have. And what I walked away with is the understanding that, culture aside, my husband and I have very different core values, and our inability to find common ground in an area where there needs to be some basic overlap will ultimately impact our kids negatively. 

I'll refrain from giving my opinion on her motives for marrying you, but I don't think she yells at you because she is Chinese or needs a work visa. There are plenty of Chinese people in the world who don't yell as their primary means of communication. It sounds more like this is a communication issue, or lack there of. My husband is verbally abusive, and for about 80% of our relationship I dismissed it as having come from a patriarchal culture, but when he started yelling at the kids in the same way, the light bulb finally went on and I was forced to reexamine my own core beliefs and figured out that this environment is not one I want for my kids, nor myself. I suppose my process has been one that had me sorting out my own cultural and personal value systems, and while it also breaks my heart to think of tearing the family apart, I feel like we owe our kids more than what they're getting. I'm not sure how much religion is impacting your thought process but I would encourage you to also rethink your definition of family and consider giving your son an upbringing he deserves.

The last thing I'll say is, please try to separate the small things from the bigger ones. I know that the grandiose wedding ceremonies were probably too much for your taste, and hopefully her parents have now come and gone from your home, but those things are done with, so leave them in the past. The fact that she was being disrespectful towards your family about it all is the thing to evaluate. I think if you're considering separation, it has to come from a place of resolve and not frustration or resentment. By the way, I happen to have a good relationship with my in-laws and, in addition to my side of the family, I talk to my mother-in-law about my marriage all of the time without my husband present. Getting these different perspectives has been a huge help and has eliminated some of the fear of considering separation. 

Anyway, sorry for the long reply. My heart goes out to you and your son, and I wish you well on your journey. I'm glad you're reaching out to others on here as a starting point.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I've known many Chinese people that don't behave the way you describe. The main issue is that she doesn't have any respect for you, probably because you don't respect yourself enough to stand up and not tolerate her treating you badly. You are also valuing her more than she is valuing you in the relationship which is causing an imbalance, and you are dealing with this imbalance by acquiescing to her demands instead of standing up for yourself and establishing healthy marital boundaries. I can't comment on her motivations for marrying, whether it was for love or green card, but the relationship you describe (sexless, verbal abuse, uneven distribution of housework, etc.) happens with a lot of unhappy Americans too. There are lots of books you can read on the subject, but they basically come down to the same sort of suggestions. Be the best version of yourself (successful, fit, involved, etc.), grow a set of balls and establish boundaries of mutual respect, and be OK with ending the relationship if it doesn't meet your standards.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

I think its tough to generalize a culture (specially from a country as large / diverse as China) for these things and separate out your specific relationship, your standing with your wife, dynamics, etc.

My wife is Chinese (but born in US). Both parents are from China/Taiwan but have lived here for 40+ years. They have acclimated to the US well and respect the differences but also still cling to a lot of traditional Chinese cultural norms. One of them is to rely heavily on their son vs. their daughter (my wife). They view their daughter as part of my family now and don't ever interfere or ask for these sorts of things. On the other hand they expect a lot from my brother in-law. They also view us all (me included) as their children and still their responsibility even though we're all grown and have great careers, kids, etc. I love them as I love my own parents.

My wife's cousin (US born) spent several years in Shanghai and met his wife there. They have since moved to the US and live close by. Their dynamic is a lot like what you've said in your post. She does seem to love him but her temper is terrible and we've seen her lose it a few times on him. He's a big strong guy (and not a doormat type) but she's not afraid to dress him down in front of others. Additionally she's insisted that they buy a house in Shanghai for her parents that they can't afford and is several times more expensive than their own modest house in the US. It's placed a terrible strain on their relationship. I don't sense that she's using him really, but she and her parents definitely have different expectations and don't seem to care what that means for her husband. They've come close to separating on several occasions. 

OP I think what's clear here is that you've got to define and enforce what's acceptable to you and how you're willing to be treated. Her threatening you on leaving isn't a good sign that she respects and loves you. Tough situation with young kids but you'll need to find a way to stand up for yourself and that might mean drastic actions. If you let her turn you into a doormat you'll never be happy.


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## Chukss9 (Jan 30, 2018)

I feel your pain, but I have always maintained that no woman, be it your girlfriend, wife, mother, should make your life a hell on earth. The woman you call your wife should create a tighter bond than when you met her between you as the man and your family. There is something wrong if she does otherwise and the fault is always hers, not your family's (as the man). I wouldn't say you should call it quits with her for the sake of your son, but try speaking to her about it and how it affects you as her husband.

Sent from my P5 mini using Tapatalk


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## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

Great responses people, really appreciated. Will try my best to respond to all. Apologies if I missed you out.

There is no green card need here. She was able to obtain permanent residency through her job. We both earn good money. Combined income is over 200k.

Ynot - I felt compelled to respond to your post first, she is definitely not a mail order, so we'll get that out of the way urghh. 

Suspicious1 - as above we are not under financial pressure however this is another issue all together. We don't pool our income, we use separate accounts.

Laurentium - I agree and my parents are deeply hurt by this. My parents want to talk with her and she flat our refused

Bananapeel - I agree with a lot of what you said. I have confidence, a good job, fitness well.. I'm very disciplined in this department and have been lifting for over 17 years. I can assure you I'm no couch potato. The problem is I'm trying too hard to please her and to minimize conflict. As I said, a guy can only take so much until the dam bursts and that's the point I'm getting to. Also it is NOT a sexless marriage, you'll notice I never complained about that lol !

DoneAndDoner - Thanks for taking the time to write all that. You mention is takes respect and appreciation of each others cultures for it to work. But what I'm finding is that there are far more compromises that I have to make than there are for her. It's good that you chose to see a Councillor even by yourself, perhaps the answers I get will be similar and core values are sure to be an issue here.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Kiki123 said:


> <snip> I have confidence,<snip>


It is my opinion you need professional help.

You do not have self confidence, as evidenced quite plainly by the fact you have allowed your wife to treat you the way she has treated you.

I will grant my wife allowed me to treat her much worse, but my wife had an affair, and I suspect my wife had no self confidence at all, especially at that time.


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## Kiki123 (Jan 30, 2018)

WilliamM said:


> You do not have self confidence, as evidenced quite plainly by the fact you have allowed your wife to treat you the way she has treated you.


You may be right. Thanks for addressing it. I will change this.


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