# I Don't Know What My Wife Wants



## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

First time poster. The length is what happens trying to sum 12 years into one post. Even if nobody reads it, I feel better already just from writing it.

I've known my wife for 12 years, 7 married, the rest dating. We both have careers, are ambitious and intelligent. For years we were not planning on having kids, but three years ago she changed her mind. Since I always want to give her what she wants, I agreed, but I had my concerns about how she would respond to what I knew would be my reaction once the kid came. I knew my life would change, but I knew to some level, I would want to retain my individuality and our relationship, how we interact. The first has been a challenge, the second has changed.

I knew how she would be with kids because I know her, and anecdotely I saw how she treated our dog. Bought outfits, boiled fresh chicken legs for its food, etc... and I was right. She is a mom's mom, if that's possible. Loves our daughter to death, dotes and frets and helicopters with the best of them. I think she over does it a bit, and early on we got into it a little bit about that and she told me she wants me to assume she knows what's she's doing and not to question her, so I haven't. That was 1.5 years ago, the age of our daughter.

Some background; my wife, in my mind, was a little spoiled. She is, and was, a very beautiful girl so she was used to men's attentions, but she knew what guys were about so she toyed with them like a cat does with a mouse. She went to college, paid for mostly by her parents. She's very intelligent, ambitious and works very hard. All of these are reasons I fell in love with her and considered myself lucky for getting somene "above my bar." As near as I could tell, her one weakness was details. The boring administrative stuff that sucks up your life like paying bills or getting papers signed, etc... She always paid late. Forgot. Bounced checks.

About a year after we started, and moved in together, I "acquired" the finances. We both make the same income. We combined our incomes and for 11 years I have made sure all the bills are paid, insurances are researched and renewed, cars are registered and smogged, basically every admin aspect in our lives. I even sign her name on forms. She doesn't deal with a single piece of paper. 

When we bought our house I handled the entire transaction, she just picked one (which was in fact more than I wanted to spend, but I wanted her to have what she wanted). She picked her car, and I went and handled it all for her. When it breaks, I get it fixed. I handle all the repairs and maintenance for the house. I do all the cleaning, picking up, laundry, grocery shopping, hedge cutting, leaf blowing, tree trimming, sprinkler fixing, etc... For the first few years I did all the cooking, but in the last several years it has been 50/50.

If I complain that she never thanks me for this stuff, she just tells me to give it to her and she'll do it. She asks me if I think she can't do it or something, and I always say that she CAN do it, she is certainly smart enough, but she DOESN'T do it, and I do, so all I am looking for is a little recognition. But it doesn't come. In her mind, as long as I acknowledge that she is capable of doing it, then I guess I am not doing anything special. At least, that's how it feels to me. As a side note, she could do it yes, but badly. She is not detail oriented. She would do it well long enough to say I told you so, then it would start to fall apart. A few times a year I will ask her to do something because I simply can't do it, like stop at the bank to sign an account signature card. It will take a few reminders before it gets done. That is typical.

Anyway, for 10.5 years she was my best friend. I don't make friends easily, so we spent all our time together. We traveled frequently, we did long distance cycling, camping, backpacking...we ate out and went to bars and danced in Vegas and NYC at Christmas time and when I flew to Miami or NY for work, she would meet me there for more fun. When we lived in our apartment, we would talk constantly. We had those long conversations where time just flew by. Even now, if I can get her alone for any length of time, we can blow hours just chatting. It was great. We had a great and fun life.

Then came my daughter, "D."

Now my wife finally goes grocery shopping, for D. Now my wife finally does laundry, for D. Before D, my wife cooked 50% of the time, now she cooks 25% of the time and a lot of that is for D.

During the first six months D never slept. It was rough for us, but mostly for my wife. D would sleep ten minutes at a time every hour, 24 hours a day. It made it impossible for my wife to sleep. To keep this short, the sleeping problem is much better but my wife chooses to sleep in D's room so I can get some sleep. Which is great. But that was a year ago. D wakes up 2 to 4 times every night to eat and will cry if my wife is not there. My wife tried staying in our room, but it was too much hassle to go back and forth, so now she just sleeps in D's room. I don't think that is normal, but I was told not to second guess her, so I don't.

D likes to throw her food on the ground and she doesn't like to sit still. Sounds normal to me. But my wife wants us all to go to breakfast together. I used to enjoy going out to breakfast, but not anymore. D will try to throw her food while in the highchair at the restaurant. She will cry or whine because she doesn't like the highchair, so out comes the iPhones to play Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and distract her or she gets pulled out to sit on my wife's lap. My wife then eats with one hand, the other hand doing something with D. I eat really fast, slam it all down, slam my coffee and call for the check, just in case D loses it and we need to leave the restaurant. I didn't like other people's kids exploding in restaurants when I tried to eat, and I was not going to become "one of those" people myself. My wife looks at these as family outings, but I only get stressed out. I would prefer a park, or someplace where D can be D and it doesn't matter, but as you will see later, I have abandoned those trips as well.

FYI - For a week, I stayed home all day everyday and took care of D by myself. Changed diapers, fed her milk and apple juice and cereal, played with her, put her down for naps, etc... I know what it's like to take care of her. I don't mind doing anything that it takes to take care of a baby, and I have done it all.

Due to a change in the extended family, I flew my mom in a month ago to help take care of D during the day while we are at work and my mom being who she is also does laundry, cooks, cleans, etc.. So she has been a great help TO ME in those areas, of course my wife is unaffected because she never did those things anyway.

So now we get to my current problem...

Last night I lost it and I've been trying to wrap my mind around it. 

It was raining, and I love the rain, my wife knows this. It hasn't rained here in six months. I left work early specifically to enjoy it, and get a fire going in the fireplace and relax. I got home, talked to my mom, opened up a bunch of baby supplies I had just ordered that my wife had asked me to get and showed her how to use them, and then I put them in the bathroom where she will need them. I played with my daughter for a while, then I went to the family room to enjoy the rain and my fire. 

I changed out of work clothes, put a nice robe on, got a movie going, and was sitting for ten minutes before my wife walked in with D. She asked if they were bothering me. I hate this question. She asks me this all the time. At this point I view this question as a proxy approval for bothering me knowing I can't say yes. Am I a troll? Am I going to say, "Yes, my wife and daughter are bothering me, please leave."

However, are they in fact bothering me? Yes. But I'm not so mean I would say that. Then my wife turns on the light. I hate the light on when I am trying to relax with a fire. I like it dark, hear the rain, see the light of the flames on the walls. I ask her to turn it off. She says, "But D can't see she will get scared" and tells me to turn on a different light that is on a dimmer. Fine, there are 12 other rooms in the house, but whatever.

I noticed the fire was not lighting well so I got up to fix it, but then my wife and D jumped into my chair to watch my movie on my iPad. I had to sit on the couch alone and watch from a distance. 

Then my wife starts telling me about her day at work, etc.. I am a good listener, I listen to her tell me about her day at work every day. Then D gets antsy, so she starts walking around, my wife starts asking me to buy more supplies for the baby, and asks about dinner. I tell her I am going to bake the chicken in the fridge. Now my movie is playing, nobody is watching, there's a light on, my fire is still not lighting the right way, I have to remember what she wants me to buy for D, I have to respond to her stories about her coworkers....

As my wife and D are out of my chair, I jump back in my chair and start rewinding my movie. So while all this is going on my mom walks in and asks me when the chicken will be ready. I can feel myself start to lose it. I stand up and say, "Ok. Fine. I am going to go make the chicken right now." I turn off my movie, turn on the main light, ditch my robe and head for the kitchen. I am calm.

Sensing they upset me, both of them start saying they can cook the chicken, both talking at me at once, right into my face, like two chickens clucking, cluck, cluck, cluck, one is saying she can skip dinner, the other saying she can cook the chicken, then the other saying she can cook something else, the other saying she can wait until later...My head exploded. 

I told them, in an uncivil way, to leave me alone and let me cook the ***k*** chicken. They left. I cooked the chicken. I tried to sit back in my chair but my wife came down with D to the kitchen and, in my mind, was being purposely loud cooing with D and playing and laughing with her...so I had to leave. I noticed the fire had finally taken hold and was burning nicely. Too bad. The rain had stopped too.

I got dressed and when my wife asked where I was going, I said, "I just need to find some space." So she said, "Well I hope that helps." Then she asked me to put the fire out since she doesn't need it. I could feel my blood pressure. SHE could put the fire out. Or she could sit in that room and enjoy it...but I guess that only worked when I was sitting there. She also knows its the first fire of the season, that it is what I wanted when I got home, that I love sitting with my fire. That it was raining. So it makes perfect sense for her to ask me to put the fire out like asking me to turn a light switch off without any acknowledgement of WHY I have to put it out. So I grabbed a bucket full of water, and said, "Ok. Let me do ONE more thing for you right now, because I ran out of things I can be doing for you this second. I just want a moment to myself." 

I dump the water on the fire. She says, "Oh Honey, I haven't had a moment for myself in one and a half years." But the WAY she said it is what blew my head apart. She said it like someone would say Silly Rabbit, Trix are for Kids. I couldn't escape fast enough. I had nowhere to go. Every room in the house is D's room. Her toys are in every room and my wife moves from room to room with her. There is no escape. So I got in my truck and went to the bar, had a few beers, read the news, watched the game, unwound. Then went down to the beach. Hung out staring at nothing. Came home late, went to bed, left this morning for work before anyone was up. 

Now...

As far as her not having a moment to herself in a year and half. I disagree. I told her months ago, when she was upset about my spending time with my friend (see below), that she has ME to babysit whenever she wants to go out with her friends and a 24/7 babysitter up the street. I also told her that I would be happy to babysit over a long weekend if she wants to fly somewhere and have a fun trip with a friend. I took care of D for a week...I can easily do three days. In my mind, this is her CHOICE...to not have any time for herself, and I think me choosing not to be a martyr like that, bothers her on some level.

Recently, D has been very Daddy clingy. I saw this as a potential problem. I knew it was only a matter of time before what happened happened. It took about three weeks of Daddy clinging. Then my wife made an off handed comment once, "She wants her favorite parent" and she had a sad look on her face. It was said jokingly...but I know she doesn't like it, or should I say, is marginally concerned.

There have been other things. I finally made a friend. A guy smart enough to hold a conversation, never flakes on plans, has money to actually participate in things. In six months we have taken two weekend trips, one mountain biking, the other backpacking (which included my wife's brother). My wife was upset about the backpacking one because I did not take her to this place I talked about for years before we had D. Her and I did PLENTY of backpacking trips, including the Grand Canyon, but all of a sudden she is upset about missing out on this ONE trip? She also asked me to take her to Paris and Rome, which I did do, before we had D. I also made sure we bought her dream house, and her dream car and HAD a baby to begin with. So now I feel guilty about my backpacking trip and even hanging out with my friend.

Anyway, he and I might watch a fight or go to a bar once a month. He lives an hour away so anything we do is planned way in advance.

Early on, it seemed like it was inconveniencing her if I hung out with him. So I have decided to ask permission now to hang out with him. My theory is that she would have to have a good reason to say no, and by saying yes, she can't guilt me about it later. I hate asking permission, I feel my manliness die a little bit more everytime I do it, but it seems to be the most sure way of having peace. Peace on earth.

I have asked my wife to go to a bar with me many times. Before D, she would go 10 out of 10 times. Now she goes 1 out of 10 times. We used to go out to dinner and breakfast a lot. Now we can't go unless we bring D so we dont go much at all. I had season passes to the theater before D was born, and she hated going only after we had D, but luckily for me, the tickets are all prepaid so she was FORCED to hang out with me. She always has a good time with me, but as the season passes were ending, she wanted me to look at getting Disneyland season passes, for both of us...and D. Her mom is 3 miles away, and is retired. She can watch D absolutely whenever we want her to. And now that my mom is living in our house, we have a babysitter onsite 24/7 but my wife never plans dinners out for us, to meet at bars, to go to the mall and just hang out. My wife's life now is D in the morning, work, D in the evening, D over the weekend, D on vacation.

One time she asked me to book a cruise for all three of us. I hated it, but she did not know at the time. I just did it for her. I remember all the fun we had on cruises before, but this time it was changing diapers, and distracting D every ten minutes, or sitting quietly in the cabin while D slept. We did one excursion, to a resort with D. In other words, the background changes but D is D, which is to be expected. I did the cruise for my wife, so she has a change of scenery, but I didn't enjoy it. I told her months later that it wasn't my favorite. She doesn't like that I didn't enjoy it.

I guess what it feels like is that I am not allowed to not like something. If I don't like something, then I am the one with the problem, in her mind. I want to hang out with her. JUST HER. And I want some time for ME..JUST ME. I love my daughter, she is great, and I miss her when I travel for work, etc... but honestly, I can only spend so much time with her. I have other things I need to do, and want to do. Am I being selfish? Is every minute of every day supposed to be about my daughter?

My wife only plans things that involve all three of us. When I am at home, my wife will swoop in with D and drop her on my lap, ignoring whatever I am working on, and ask for 5 minutes, which is really 15 to 30. On weekends, if I am working on something in the house, I can expect to be interrupted at least once while I work on it. Because of that, I actually prefer working outside the house so she can't drop D on me, or to work in the dirt or with chemicals so she won't give D to me. When I come home from work, the first thing I do, before I even change, is play with D because I want to see her and play with her. I'll spend maybe an hour or so before my wife gets home, but now I don't even want to do that. I am looking at that hour now as precious time not to be wasted before my wife comes home and then whatever I am doing at the time is sub to having D dropped on me at random times for random lengths of time.

My wife got mad at me for not wanting to hang out with all three of them as a family, on outside trips, but I can't help it. When she tells me on the weekend that her and D are going to the beach or the park, all I can think about is the hour or two I will get alone. OMG. I start thinking about what I can get done in that hour. Hang a curtain rod. Fix those paint chips. Clean up that spill in the garage. Trim tthe hedges! OMG...the possibilities.

We don't sleep in the same bed. We don't do anythinig together anymore. I think TWICE in the past six months she told me to meet her at a bar after work. And one of those we got into a fight. 

She never appreciates that I handle all the bills and broken things and paperwork and retirement investments and disability insurance research, and on and on. When I show her the trimmed hedges or the hung curtains, she says, "That's nice honey." I asked her for some docs from her work yesterday, she sent me the link and the logins so I could do it myself...she wrote, "on deadline." Okay, so I can find time during MY work to take care of this, but she can't. And of course, she will not say thanks or be remotely interested in what I was working on for us.

When I see her I tell her she looks hot or I smack her butt or I kiss her or compliment her hair or outfit. I do that at least 4 or 5 times a week. When she sees me, there is nothing. She either tells me about her day, about D's day, or asks me to do something or reminds me of something I didn't do. 

In fact, during last night's event, she was telling me about her ugly friend who insisted on going after hot guys, and how that shows that some people think they can get someone way out of their league. I agreed with her. Then she said, "It would be like some friend of yours having a hot supermodel as a friend and you asking him for her number." What the????? I gave her a look and she realized what she said and tried to blow it off. Then I said, "Well, you were out of my league and I went after you," and she just blew it off, said she wasn't out of my league and, "whatever." Trust me. She was out of my league. I might have the brains, but certainly not the brawn.

She asked me on Sunday to get banister covers to keep D from falling through the rails. I had them ordered Monday morning, here by Wednesday morning. And like everything else, it will be installed this weekend. That's how I am. I do what she asks me to do and I get the job done.

We had a very windy day the other day. Rare. I was holding D and stood out in the wind on the deck. D was smiling and laughing and giggling. My wife got on me saying she could get an ear infection from the wind. I hate when she mircomanages how I play with D. This wasn't the first time. So I said, "Are you kidding me?" But she wouldn't leave. She stood at the door. So I said, "Seriously? Get the f*** outta here." So she shut the door and stood there. D could see her, so D started whining and wriggling to get free. Destroyed my moment with D. I was so mad. Yes I know, I shouldn't curse.

It's so different now. I feel like a sperm donor. After her comment that she has no time for herself, I feel like I am not meeting her expectations. If I should somehow, even by accident, have time to myself, I need to immediately find someway to turn that into doing something for D. I feel like my useful purpose has been met. I got her to Europe. I got her her house. I got her her car. I got her her baby. All I am now is a chauffer, babysitter, handyman, maid, financial advisor, accountant and personal assistant.

She's not mean to me. We still talk, and laugh and joke around. 99% of the time we get along fine, she just feels more like a cool roomate. Indifferent. I feel guilty if I try to be by myself or do something with my friend, and when I try to carve out some space or time, and she inserts herself with D in it, I try not to get defensive, but I keep thinking to myself..."Why ASK me if you are bothing me? Why not just be a great wife and see what I am doing, know who I am, and just know that I probably DON'T want to be interrupted right now or say something like, hey, when the movie is over, you wanna come hang out with us?" I mean, I would react so much better to something like that.

We've had this discussioon before and for about a month, she was better. She paid more attention to me, she said sweet things, etc... but...it all went back to the way it was before.

Now I dont want to go home after work. I want to leave home as early as I can. I look forward to her taking D somewhere on the weekend so I can be alone. I always wondered about those guys at work that stayed really late for no real reason. Now I know.

I don't think it's supposed to be this way.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

It's not supposed to be that way. 

Helicopter parenting does not develop independent children who then become independent adults. This isn't good for your daughter or your wife. Plenty of women forget they were women first, wives second and mothers third. The marriage needs to come first or there will no longer be a solid family unit for the child.

However you also need to set boundaries. The drawback is, in order to have an adult-appropriate conversation teh child cannot always be with her mother. And BTW girls will LOVE their daddies. She will want to pull away from Mom around this time - Dad will seem ultra cool. Then Mom will be needed a bit more, then Dad get really cool again around 10, then BOTH parents are uncool! LOL It's normal and natural as they grow to each stage of autonomy.

And when your wife asks if you two are bothering you, you HAVE to be able to say "Not bothering per se, but honestly hon, I really want to enjoy the fire and the rain and a little peace and quiet. It's been a long day. Give me an hour and I'll come in and start dinner/play with daughter/watch TV/etc." You are being the martyr.

I would suggest you arrange a sitter/grandparent for an evening and talk to your wife. In or out, doesn't matter. You need COUPLE time. You need to explain how much you love her and you love D, but that you miss having your wife all to yourself sometimes. You miss her company and going out and you feel you BOTH need that to maintain emotional intimacy. You may also say that it would be good for your daughter to have a little time away because when preschool comes it shouldn't be the first time she is away from home. 

Suggest a local church or daycare that offers "Mommy's morning out" as a good transition during the day. Then have date nights. You have held all of this in and she will be blindsided when you explode. You have to tell her what's going on. You may want to suggest MC. Do this now before you two drift apart and become angry and resentful.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You sound like you never wanted to be a father, and are therefore resentful. You resent your wife for changing her mind, and you resent your daughter for being around. Not that you dont love your daughter. 

Your wife needs to remember that she is a wife still, even though she is a mom now. You need to do date nights, and one on one activities. It sounds like you have plenty of babysitters at your disposal so that shouldnt be an issue. She also needs to understand your desire for some alone time of your own. She cannot comprehend that you dont want to spend every second of your home time gushing over your D, because that is how SHE feels. Your wife should take some time for herself, too, it isnt healthy to be so wrapped up in your child that you dont do for yourself. 

You need to come to terms with the fact that you are a family unit now, and that means doing things together, ALL of you. Now in my opinion, taking a baby on a cruise is just a bad idea. That would have been a good chance for the two of you to have some time alone. You are both doing some things wrong here, and there is plenty of room for you to meet in the middle.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

To be honest, I could have gone either way...to be a father or not be a father.

My wife sold me on it with a few concepts I thought were pretty intelligent. The first was that we weren't really doing anything anymore that was so important that we couldn't postpone until a child was older. What I mean by that is that we traveled a lot and did the clubs and bar thing, etc.....but in her view, how many times can you do that? It's old hat. Let's do something different, we can always pick up where we left off later. This seemed logical.

The other clincher was that one of us will most likely die before the other. Wouldn't it be terrible if we had no family left, when the other one was left alone? Seeing as that I will probably die first, I figured this was a logical thought too. I would not want her to be left alone. But if she had a grown child, that was part of both of us, that would help the transition when I am gone.

It was these two ideas that convinced me to have a child. Again, just to reiterate, I love D to pieces. She makes me laugh, I love playing with her. Every day she does something new that blows my mind. I can't wait until I can take her camping, backpacking - teach her how to do an oil change, shift a hotrod faster than any guy trying to impress her, take her to all the great museums, teach her as much and as fast as this old hardrive of a brain can spin.

I understand there will be a time when she wants her complete independence and we will both be just "idiots" in her mind, but I know she will come around again years later. I'm as ready as anyone can be to adapt to that, with some luck.

So did I want to be a father? Eh. Either way. But now that I am a father, I am not angry about it, or resentful. Not about my daughter. I am trying to cope as best as I can in the changes in my relationship with my wife. I don't blame D for that.

Lastly, I am all for hanging out with my daughter, but not necessarily the way my wife wants to do it. D was not even a year old when she wanted to start taking her to 5 Star Restaurants, and I had to put a scrap on that. I knew D was unpredictable, and she never sleeps, she would be a mess - which is fine - OUTSIDE a 5 Star Restaurant. When My wife says they are going to the mall, or to the playground, I am, or was anyway, happy to go along. I had fun too. 

But now I have to choose between those trips AND having D dropped on me all the time at home, or let them leave without me, so I can get something done, knowing D will be dropped on me when they get back and nothing can get done. It's a choice I don't like making. Compound that with the fact that whatever I do around the house goes unappreciated, it's like making a choice to be a target.

I have this feeling if I let the dishes pile up, let the laundry rot in the hamper, all the bills to go past due, the house to get trashed, the grass to grow, the cars to fall apart...as long as I spent all my time with D, my wife wouldn't notice or care that everything else had went to hell. So why am I working so hard to maintain somethihng she doesn't seem to consider a priority anyway? This is the untenable situation I am in now.

I agree she needs to get more time for herself. And we need time together. I guess I was hoping SHE would make the effort to schedule these things, an acknowledgement that she actually WANTS to spend time with me, not just me putting something on her calendar that she shows up to like an interview, but if it is a choice between me managing that or our relationship dissolving, I would rather try to manage it and plan things then let everything fall apart.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Sunrise73 said:


> I have this feeling if I let the dishes pile up, let the laundry rot in the hamper, all the bills to go past due, the house to get trashed, the grass to grow, the cars to fall apart...as long as I spent all my time with D, my wife wouldn't notice or care that everything else had went to hell. So why am I working so hard to maintain somethihng she doesn't seem to consider a priority anyway? This is the untenable situation I am in now.
> 
> 
> *It does sound like she is a little unappreciative of the things you take care of. These things that you say are not a priority to her you are doing because they ARE important and need to be done. They are the day to day things that have to get done in order for our lives to function normally. YOU are doing them because she doesnt have the aptitude for it.*
> ...


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

I really like your suggestion for how to handle when I am trying to do the ME thing and she drops in on me. I'm going to try that. I will also schedule a date night and I will see if I can find one of the Mommy's Morning Out places. Two people have responded now and both are saying we need to spend more time together, so I am going to make that happen.

I remember when we were living together, pre-D, as soon as my foot crossed the threshhold she was on me to talk about her day. She would talk to me while I was making something to eat, talk to me while I changed out of work clothes, talk to me while I was pulling up something to watch on TV, and then talk to me while I was eating and watching the TV. I would pause the TV everytime she started talking, and hit play when she stopped. Never phased her, she just thought I was weird for doing it.

Finally one day I told her she needs to knock that off. I had hoped she would just figure it out, but it wasn't happening. I told her she needs to let me have like 30 minutes, maybe an hour, to unplug. Then I would be happy to listen and to have a beer or wine with her on the balcony and chat for as long as she wants. I remember she thought I was kidding. She couldn't understand it all. I actually had to pull some stuff up off the internet, from Men Are From Mars or whatever, and SHOW it to her. Thank God for that, otherwise she would probably still think I was crazy, that I was the only guy that acted like that. She never lived with a guy before, and she'd only had two serious relationships before me. It was a challenge there for a little while.

Last week I was eating, watching TV, doing my 30-60 minute thing, and she brought D by and said, "Whoopsy...don't bother your Daddy, he's having cave time." It was in a baby-voice....I can't tell if she was making fun of me, or it was just innocent, so I didn't respond.. Still....bothers me. Makes me sound like I am insane for doing it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

This actually seems to be a pretty common thing for men, to need some decompression time when they first get home. Nothing wrong with that at all, especially when you make that need known, instead of seething quietly about it. You can offer her the same, take D for an hour while she takes a bath, or reads, or something.


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## SScaterpillar (Oct 30, 2011)

I think 3xnocharm is right on. You two need to meet in the middle and definitely have room to do so. 

I can tell you as a new mother, I was similar to her. I fretted not having our son in my arms. People would get so upset with me because I wouldn't "share" him. In my mind, he was mine. I carried him for 9 months. I loved him more than anyone on this planet could and, God forbid, what if something happened to him? I've suffered sudden loss, so I have this overwhelming sense of the shortness of life. I don't like to take life or people for granted, so I get very paranoid and somewhat dramatic (maybe not externally, but internally). The difference is that I continued to do all of the housework, bill paying, doctor appointments, etc. as well as working. I didn't work as much as I had, but I still worked while I took care of our son. My husband pulled back. Retreated. He expressed his jealousy of our son, which just killed me. How could a grown man be jealous of his own son!? 

We both had to step back and realize that I had moved my husband down to 2nd place on my priority list and my husband was not only being unhelpful, he was being downright selfish. 

That first year with our son was TOUGH. It was beautiful and full of feelings of love I never thought were possible. But, it was really, really difficult. Women are hormonal for quite some time after giving birth. I believe with our first, it's even worse. Some of us can see our child as being our entire world. And when they are that young, they are 100% dependent upon us and we are terrified of failing them.

I have a feeling your wife feels this way, too. It's coming from a good place. It really is. But, so are you. You are being helpful. You do much more than most new fathers I've seen. Venting is great. I believe venting will help you get those emotions out rather than losing it on someone. 

You both are doing things right and things wrong. You need to have a direct conversation. And you need to both do your best to keep your emotions in check, be frank, but be fair. Don't point fingers. Tell each other how the other's actions make you feel or, even better, how you allow those actions to make you feel. Blame never works - I can tell you from experience. 

And the jealousy thing...well, apparently that's par for the course with fathers. And as mothers, the jealousy is enraging. It's not wrong and it's not right. It's just truth and that goes for both parties. Mothers can't imagine that fathers don't want to watch their child breathe for hours on end. Fathers can't understand why the mother dumps him for this little baby who wasn't a factor for a long time before. 

Hang tough, man. It's a rough row to hoe, but you can definitely get past it. Compromise and teamwork - that's what it's going to take. It's not quick and it's not easy and you'll still have resentments and arguments, but it will slowly get better. When the baby gets to be more self-sufficient, she'll be able to more easily let go. She might even offer a couples-only trip. I know that I could go for one now that our son is 5, even if I would feel guilty!


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> You can offer her the same, take D for an hour while she takes a bath, or reads, or something.


I absolutely will, and have. She told me Tuesday that she barely slept the night before. D was up all the time. I told her I would take her place that night and she could get all the sleep she needed if she wants. But she didn't take me up on it.

My wife used to sleep in until 10 or 11 on weekends. Now she's up at 6 because of D. I told her any weekend she wants to sleep in, let me know and I will take D when she wakes up and go play with her so she can sleep in.

Whenever she comes to me and says, "I just need to take a nice long shower, can you watch D?" I never, ever say no. I say, "Of course. Take your time."

I think the problem is, these are "standing" offers of mine, I don't repeat them all the time, so she never takes me up on them. Just like she doesn't take the initiative to set up date nights. I think I need to offer this up on a regular basis, like every Friday offer to take D so she can sleep in, and on a regular basis offer to watch D so she can take a bath, maybe I'll even set the bath up with candles and bath soap and all and just take D and tell my wife she should relax in the bath I got ready. That's an idea. I'll do that. As for date nights, like I said in another post, I am just going to start managing that, working with the grandmoms to babysit D.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

SScaterpillar said:


> I can tell you as a new mother, I was similar to her. I fretted not having our son in my arms. People would get so upset with me because I wouldn't "share" him. In my mind, he was mine. I carried him for 9 months. I loved him more than anyone on this planet could and, God forbid, what if something happened to him?


Thank you. It sounds like you are describing her, so this helps me feel better about it. I can understand it more.



SScaterpillar said:


> My husband pulled back. Retreated. He expressed his jealousy of our son, which just killed me. How could a grown man be jealous of his own son!?


This is what I am afraid I am moving towards. This is why I want to get in front of it now. I feel like, to use a geology analogy, a metamorphic rock. I feel pressure being applied to me, subtly, but constant and unwavering and it's changing my shape ever so slowly, and I don't know what it is changing it to. Jealousy, Resentment, are some of the shapes I am afraid it will become.



SScaterpillar said:


> I have a feeling your wife feels this way, too. It's coming from a good place. It really is. But, so are you. You are being helpful. You do much more than most new fathers I've seen.


This is the other odd bit. Her cousin, married to a guy a little younger than me, just had a baby, few months younger than D. The guy won't grow up. Her cousin comes over and vents about him all the time. He doesn't clean up. The place is a sty. He has his friends over all the time to drink beer and go in the pool. It got so bad she is forcing them to move to an apartment out of a rented house, just so he will be forced to stop bringing his friends over. She told my wife he only plays with the baby for a few minutes, and takes photos with the baby when he holds her to send to his mom, making it look like he does it all the time. So...she has an up close and personal comparison and........nada.



SScaterpillar said:


> Mothers can't imagine that fathers don't want to watch their child breathe for hours on end.


Lol. I needed that laugh. TY.



SScaterpillar said:


> Hang tough, man. It's a rough row to hoe, but you can definitely get past it. Compromise and teamwork - that's what it's going to take. It's not quick and it's not easy and you'll still have resentments and arguments, but it will slowly get better. When the baby gets to be more self-sufficient, she'll be able to more easily let go. She might even offer a couples-only trip. I know that I could go for one now that our son is 5, even if I would feel guilty!


I will. Thank you.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> This actually seems to be a pretty common thing for men, to need some decompression time when they first get home. Nothing wrong with that at all, especially when you make that need known, instead of seething quietly about it.


I think that is something I can make an effort to do, to let her know that I need that time. I did once before, and I know she knows it, but she comes by with D so often that I imagine its hard to know which times I want it and which times I don't, so I will just talk to her and let her know that she doesn't have to ask everytime she drops D off. If she brings her and I want some time first, I will just let her know, otherwise I am happy to take D and she doesn't have to worry that I might be doing it against my will. If I didn't say no, then I that means by default willing and able.


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## Confusedhubby2013 (Oct 10, 2013)

Your situation sounds like a more extreme version of my own. I feel like my wife can only handle 1 role at a time. Before becoming a mother she was a wife, since having a child, she can only handle being a mother. Like your situation, my wife had lots of chances to have personal time but felt incredible guilt leaving our child with anyone else, for even a couple of hours. Yet despite that she always talks about being stressed because she has so much on her plate. I try to help but part of me thinks she feels she needs to be in this constant state of worry to be a good mother. I keep suggesting a getaway for the 2 of us and the best I can get is a conditional "ok" which ends up falling apart because the planets didn't all align. 

For her things did get better once our little one started school as my wife automatically got 2 days a week completely to herself so she had no choice but find something to fill that void with. 

As others have said, things will get better as far as D's needs go. You sound like you need your wife to upgrade to a new model Wife/Mom switch. If you find one that works, drop me a line.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

Confusedhubby2013 said:


> Your situation sounds like a more extreme version of my own. I feel like my wife can only handle 1 role at a time...I try to help but part of me thinks she feels she needs to be in this constant state of worry to be a good mother...For her things did get better once our little one started school as my wife automatically got 2 days a week completely to herself so she had no choice but find something to fill that void with...You sound like you need your wife to upgrade to a new model Wife/Mom switch. If you find one that works, drop me a line.


That is a great way of defining it, only handling one role at a time, that is exactly what it feels like. When she is forced to go to a play, we have a great time and she acts like she used to. I took her to the County Fair, we were supposed to bring D but it's very crowded and she was afraid D might get trampled on so we skipped that part, but her and I went anyway. She had A BLAST. We had some beers, went on rides, caught a concert....a bit tipsy we took one of those photo booth film strip things where she acted like a kid while it was snapping the photos and I love the photos so much I made it my new phone wallpaper so I can look at it every day.

...constant state of worry. YES. Agree. I think if she was not worrying about D, she would not be doing anything. I feed D when D is hungry. If I offer her something and she says NO, I put it down. I'll offer a few more things, but hey, if the kid isn't hungry, she isn't hungry. My wife on the other hand obsesses. She will try ten different things and if unsuccessful then go into a cycle of making an attempt every 30 minutes or so until she eats something. I watched her for a week. I fed her when she wanted to eat. The kids still here. So I don't get it.

....I dont know if your wife works or not. Mine does, so school will, I think, not be a big impact. My wife does have every other Friday off however, so at least on those days she will have nothing to do. I just wish she would embrace her good fortune. Her job is 3.5 miles from our house. She has alternating Fridays off. One grandmother lives with us as babysitter, the other is 2 miles down the road. Both are retired and got nothing else going on and LOVE D like crazy. When my father in law is better, the other grand mother will alternate with my mom so they each have days on and off. It's a great setup and we're damn lucky to have it, but still, getting my wife to GO DO SOMETHING FOR HERSELF is like pulling teeth.

....Wife/Mom switch. HA. When I know, you will know. In fact I'll buy rights to it, mass market it and make billion$.

GENERAL UPDATE FOLLOWS

I booked a family trip this past weekend and I took everything I learned from this thread and presented a "plan" of sorts on where I can improve and maybe if she could help me by joining me when I book date nights, etc.. I think overall it went really well. As usual she had a lot of fun, D had fun, it went great.

I can see one small trip up though...

This is a small, irrelevence, but it shows how she thinks. So we were driving back, 2 hour road trip, and I was playing my road music, enjoying the windows down and she told me the baby was falling asleep so I rolled up the windows and turned the music off. To me, this is obvious. The baby is trying to sleep. This is what you do when babies are sleeping. 

She waited about 10 mins and asked me if that bothered me. And I said, what? She said that I had to turn my music off. I said no, she needs to sleep. So she said, yes, but I know you like to drive with your music on. And I said, yes, but this is not my trip. This is OUR trip. If it was me, our us, then I would keep the radio on, but it's OURS, all three of us, so this is what we do. I am pretty sure that she does like this trip being referred to as, "not my trip." I think she will apply negativity to that, as if, I don't want to be there, when the reality is, I do want to be there, but honestly, this trip is not about me. I'm not Narcissus. My kid wants to sleep. Roll the windows up. Done and done. But I have a feeling that was not received well. Even though I said it was OUR TRIP, I don't think she understands.

This is where we will fall down. She thinks that anything I do with "the family" that does not let me do what I would do without "the family" around must not count, i.e., I don't like it or want to do it.

For example, last night I was playing with D and helping my wife and my wife kept saying to me to go watch a movie or read or have a fire, or whatever. And I was telling her, it's not necessary, right now this is where I want to be. I really think she thinks that I don't want to be there. And that I dont want family trips. "Not my trip." That I have things I want to do and anything that is NOT one of those things, is just a tiring, troubelsome burden of responsibility. Another droll day of playing with my kid, I guess. She doesn't get it. Sometimes I want D time. Sometimes I want Wife time. Sometimes I want me time. And surprise surprise, I rotate through those as I feel like it, or the need to move occurs.

It's like that thing people say sometimes, I'm a man, a dad, a son, a brother, a father, a husband, etc... To me, each of those roles is completely different and requires different activities, talking subjects, actions, etc...

It seems like she can't wrap her mind around the fact that when we are out with the baby, I am a father and incredibly, I do fatherly stuff like turning down the music when my daughter wants to sleep. When I am a man, I do manly stuff like working on my truck listening to Billy Joel or Pink Floyd or unsafely using a chainsaw while working on a beer cutting a tree that needs to come down. I enjoy these activities. When I am a husband, I do husbandy stuff like pour her a glass of wine, and I shut my mouth and listen attentively over dinner at a nice restaurant while my wife discusses what is going on at her work, what her family is doing, etc... and I offer advice, when asked.

Why can't she understand that I want MY trips for me, HER trips for her, US trips for US, and OUR trips for all of us. Very simple.

When I told her on this trip that me wanting ME time was not the problem, the problem was her not wanting HER time. I am not wrong because I want something that you are not taking for yourself, and I am going to help you take that time.

So on Friday I bought $50 worth of spa stuff and I had the bath tub surrounded by candles, already full, with bath salts and bubbles, I had spa music playing, her magazines laid out, a glass of wine...she was in there for over an hour...loved it. Was so happy afterward. She told me she had been planning to do that for two years.

I told her I would be planning more things, more family trips, more stuff for just her, for just us, and I am available to babysit anyday, anytime, so she can go do what she wants to do for HER time. She said she wants to go back to yoga, so I jumped all over that and said, YES, you let me know what day(s) and I will make sure I am home to watch D...NO PROBLEM.

So, we will see how it goes.

When I explained all of this (what we've been talking about on this thread - without actually mentioning the thread...lol) she cried a little bit. She acknowledged that she is not giving enough time to herself, or me. I can see efforts to change that already, like during the remainder of the trip. But I have seen changes before, and reversion, so we will see. I will just plug away at carving out time for each of her "roles" now that she knows what I am doing, and agrees it needs to be done.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Good first steps. I guess I'm semi-fortunate that I didn't have the Mommy Gene. When I had her it was love at first sight but I was also fine not being with her 24/7 after the first few months. I love her with all of my heart but I'm fine just being me, too.

And don't make special concessions for the child. Offering 10 foods until they are tempted teaches them to hold out for a certain food and it may not be the healthy one. This will make for a picky child.

And let the music play! Kids who are used to noise during naps can sleep through thunder storms, loud action movies (at home!) and Mom/Dad making noise in the next room. 

I agree on no 5-star restaurants but what about going immediately after a nap when baby is happy? Or an infant right before nap when they will fall asleep right after the bottle/breast. Learning timing can make for much nicer trips out. I knew to not even go to the grocery store if it was an hour before nap time or I'd have one CRANKY baby on my hands.

Sorry for the extra parenting stuff when you are looking more for relationship stuff but learning balance and stating your needs and making her recognize she still has her own needs that should be acknowledged is key.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Sunrise73 said:


> We don't sleep in the same bed. We don't do anythinig together anymore.


I think that not sleeping in the same bed is the most serious problem on here, and curiously, no one has mentioned it. That's the low-hanging fruit. Fix that first!

After your daughter is asleep, your wife can go back to her room. Then you two alternate. Your wife shouldn't be the only one helping your daughter go to sleep anyway. 

Another solution which is less optimal is to move the baby crib into your room. Then at least you and your wife can sleep together. It is certainly better than you two separated!



> She never appreciates that I handle all the bills and broken things and paperwork and retirement investments and disability insurance research, and on and on.


Then stop doing some of those things for awhile, so your wife sees that it doesn't magically take care of itself. The dishes, the hedges, etc. can wait. Let those dishes pile up a bit. The world won't end, I promise!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I get the impression that you both are overwhelmed with the responsibilities of having this child and the changes it has made in your lives. She needs her time and you need yours. I think rather than letting things happen you do need to be more upfront and express your need for alone time. If your wife had known that you were leaving work to come home and watch a movie and relax, what do you suppose her reaction would have been? Is it possible that the two of you can schedule some alone/down-time and be respectful of each other's needs for this time to yourselves? This need not become an argument....share the duty and responsibility as well as making plans to get away.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Good first steps. I guess I'm semi-fortunate that I didn't have the Mommy Gene. When I had her it was love at first sight but I was also fine not being with her 24/7 after the first few months. I love her with all of my heart but I'm fine just being me, too.
> 
> And don't make special concessions for the child. Offering 10 foods until they are tempted teaches them to hold out for a certain food and it may not be the healthy one. This will make for a picky child.
> 
> ...


She has gotten better in this aspect. The nap timings have been better and my daughter is a little more controllable at restaurants. 

As far as noise goes, I am with you on that one. She can sleep through anything, and maybe part of that is we never tried to create a perfectly quiet place for her to sleep. We have had a room full of people talking, airplanes flying overhead, doesn't matter...sleeps solid.

The food thing...I can't break my wife of that habit. She insists on offering multiple foods. When I tried to gently suggest otherwise I am told that if she does not give her what she wants, she wakes up several times during the night demanding milk, so if my wife wants any sleep she has to give her milk OR better yet, make sure she eats enough during the day, and there we are back at ten food options again. Since I am not the one dealing with her waking up every night if she is hungry, I don't get a vote - so what can I do? Not much.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I am female, and a mom, and while I love my kids dearly.....I don't understand women who live through their children. Kids grow up. They NEED to grow up. I am happily counting down the days till my youngest leaves for college. Maybe it's because I had mine young that I feel this way. But likely it's because I'm a realist and know that my boys are amazing people, but my role in their lives is to try to turn them into respectible adults. I don't feel the need to hang onto every waking moment, never cried when they started school, don't take pictures every second, etc.

No real advice, I think what's been given is a good start. But I think you are right and your W is terribly spoiled. Develop and maintain some boundaries, expect more responsibility from her. She is capable of doing a lot of the things you mentioned, I"m sure. She just doens't make them a priority. BIG difference between being uncapable and just not wanting to do something.


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