# Dating New Man, How Guilty Should I Feel ?



## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

I’ve been married for almost 2 years and have been separated since 6 weeks ago, no child yet fortunately. 2 months before i left he started an EA with his colleague, they are both doctors and spent a lot of hours together. He had said that they are just friends but lied to me again and again about why he was always home late, also became super snappy about everything i did. Blameshifting, gaslighting, all kind of lies, i’ve got it from him for 2 months. Finally i moved out, i block his number and email just to make it easier for me to clear my mind

The new man and husband know each other, graduated from same university but different major. We met when i became an intern at his office, i was already married but i knew the proper boundaries so nothing happened. He’s a divorced guy, his ex wife was apparently a remorseless cheater. I told him everything about the EA, we got closer and have been dating for 1 month

Husband figured out when he saw the new guy drove my car. Somehow he got my new address (i hadn’t told him)and asked how could i did that to him ? He was very emotional, ranging between fury and almost cry but i kept myself calm. I was and still am until now, confused. He didn’t give a rat’s ass about me, i was invisible but suddenly he cared ?? He told me he had sent me emails,texts and left voicemails to ask for forgiveness. Well i blocked all of his ids so i had no idea. When he left my apartment he looked broken, i genuinely sorry that he felt that way but still mind boggled about his reaction. I mean i started to date AFTER i left not during our relationship like he did, this is not cheating.

Should i feel guilty ? What should i do ?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Has a legal separation or actual divorce petition been filed? 

Are you having sex with this other man (OM)? 

Was there any infidelity on either of your parts during the marriage before all this went down? 

Did you leave your husband with the intent that you were going to pursue this other man?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Been a while since psychology class for me, but what you are describing is something observed by children as well. A child will tire of a toy, toss it aside, and neglect the old one. When another child picks it up and plays with it, it brings on a strong emotional response from the child who neglected his toy.

Sound familiar. You were invisible to him because his focus, what brought him the most novelty was the other female. He still has an attachment to you and it is part of our selfish genes at work. Even though he cheated and neglected you, there is still a connection to you that is pushed to the back because of his shiny new toy.

He did abandon you in a sense and this is a consequence of that action. Another person shows interest and that is the reason why you got the response you did.

Question is, and this goes to emotional maturity, do you want to be with him knowing that he is not mature enough for a committed relationship. I lack sympathy for a person who neglects or abandons their commitment because I was a recipient of that type of behavior myself so I can empathize.

The only reason why he shows any focus on you now is because the other male is a threat to something he perceives as his. As you can see, it is a high level of self center behavior.

My best advice is to detach from your husband, quit the other relationship to find some stability in your life. The only reason why you are confused as well is because he is now showing interest again. If he did not, you would not be confused at the moment. His actions showed you that he did not care, and now he does, it is throwing you off balance. Do not take blame for him throwing you away, there is consequences for that action. He ended the relationship and the obligation and your responsibility to him ends there. When one person leaves you or you leave them, it ends prior commitment. It is call breaking up and marriages are not immune to that either.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Has a legal separation or actual divorce petition been filed?
> 
> Are you having sex with this other man (OM)?
> 
> ...


No, not yet. There are no legal separation here just divorce, and for that i'll need retainer for the attorney. I could if i take the money from our joint account but he is the sole contributor for it and during our argument he said something offensive about that so i think i shouldn't take a cent from it

Yes, we're doing what normal couple do when they date

No, never. My only close guy friend is gay so nope

Romantic intent? No. 
We talked when i was still with my husband, mostly me asking him for advice. He read the texts that my husband sent to me and told me to leave, i knew i had to walk away so what he said pretty much just confirmed my thought. He helped me finding apartment and when i unpacked my stuff, i made him some dinner and started from there. After the move


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Are you legally separated from your husband?
If not, I strongly recommend you consider taking this first step before you get into another relationship. 6 months is not very long to heal yourself.

It's common for a cheater to want to have his/her cake and eat it, too. Your husband was in la-la land about boundaries. He thought that he could have his fun and you'd just sit around waiting at home for him. 

I think he cares very little for you, otherwise he would have had better boundaries. He's not marriage material. Start separation/divorce and let him go. Keep him blocked if there's no property or anything to really mediate between you two.

Whether you keep the current relationship going is up to you, but if you value this new man in your life and think it has the potential to be something very lasting and valuable, I would do everything to make sure that you are healed and free mentally and legally to pursue it. If you haven't taken time to heal, you'll bring baggage into the relationship. Time lines are different for different folks, but it's not uncommon to wait about a year before getting into something new. I waited for 2.


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## Mads (Jul 27, 2015)

Divorce first...take the time to grieve and heal...before dating.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Separate half the funds from your joint account immediately.

Who cares if he said "something offensive" about you dipping into the pot???

HALF the money is yours because you are MARRIED.

Take the money. Hire a lawyer. The best bulldog you can find.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

If you are going through the process to be divorced and have made it clear you are done with your husband, then no.

If there is any ambiguity in you about your relationship with your husband being over or you have any hope of restoring your marriage, then you f'd up big time by letting this other man bed you.

On a different but related note, it is usually a huge mistake to start sleeping with anyone so quickly after a relationship break down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I guess if there was a mutual agreement between your husband and yourself that you were divorcing, then you are "expressly" separated and the marriage contract is suspended. So technically you are not cheating. But...it is a bit tawdry. Lets put it this way, you may not be cheating in the strictest sense, but what you are doing is morally ambiguous and questionable.

But if you have any wish to maintain the ethical high ground, then you need to file for divorce as soon as you can. Do not let your husband string you along in hopes that once he's done having fun with his new woman he will be able to get you to come back to him. He's treating you as a plan B. You need to end this limbo. 

I believe you can actually file for a no fault divorce yourself. The local courthouse should have all the paperwork you need. Once you get everything in order I believe you just have to pay a fee for filing and service. 

Also, by not having some form of legal separation on file with the court, you are liable for any and all debt he may be racking up at present while dating his new woman...and vice versa. I'm surprised that he has not filed since learning about your boyfriend.


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## Vorlon (Sep 13, 2012)

I think you and your husband are both in the wrong. You were married and he had an EA. You left the house 6 weeks ago and started sleeping with a guy 2 weeks after leaving based on your story. 

To me your story reads of a marriage in trouble and you both bailed out instead of working on it together. That does not bode well so maybe its best you divorce. I don't see a great deal of commitment to your husband or marriage from you. You immediately engaged with and took the advice of another man that you are now sleeping with instead of talking to your husband. Seems awfully convenient. 

Yes you might as well divorce as I don't feel much love from either of you to ward each other. Get out now before children are involved. Set each other free.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Vorlon said:


> I think you and your husband are both in the wrong. You were married and he had an EA. You left the house 6 weeks ago and started sleeping with a guy 2 weeks after leaving based on your story.
> 
> To me your story reads of a marriage in trouble and you both bailed out instead of working on it together. That does not bode well so maybe its best you divorce. I don't see a great deal of commitment to your husband or marriage from you. You immediately engaged with and took the advice of another man that you are now sleeping with instead of talking to your husband. Seems awfully convenient.
> 
> Yes you might as well divorce as I don't feel much love from either of you to ward each other. Get out now before children are involved. Set each other free.


Agreed. Sounds to me like you both were having emotional affairs.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> If you are going through the process to be divorced and have made it clear you are done with your husband, then no.
> 
> If there is any ambiguity in you about your relationship with your husband being over or you have any hope of restoring your marriage, then you f'd up big time by letting this other man bed you.
> 
> ...






bandit.45 said:


> I guess if there was a mutual agreement between your husband and yourself that you were divorcing, then you are "expressly" separated and the marriage contract is suspended. So technically you are not cheating. But...it is a bit tawdry. Lets put it this way, you may not be cheating in the strictest sense, but what you are doing is morally ambiguous and questionable.


There are no separation agreement but at our final serious conversation (we'd had a bunch where i caught him lying), i told him to limit his contact with her or i'd left, he agreed to that pact although he said that i was being paranoid. Next day when he was in shower after work i read his text and there was it, my breaking point. He was still in contact with her, she thanked him for the coffee and hoped that the wife problem would go away. First,i upset that he broke that pact, second, our conversation should be intimate but he told her of all people about it. Well wife stuck to the pact and finally left, per our agreement

It's not legal but that's good enough agreement right ?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

KatViolet said:


> There are no separation agreement but at our final serious conversation (we'd had a bunch where i caught him lying), i told him to limit his contact with her or i'd left, he agreed to that pact although he said that i was being paranoid. Next day when he was in shower after work i read his text and there was it, my breaking point. He was still in contact with her, she thanked him for the coffee and hoped that the wife problem would go away. First,i upset that he broke that pact, second, our conversation should be intimate but he told her of all people about it. Well wife stuck to the pact and finally left, per our agreement
> 
> It's not legal but that's good enough agreement right ?


As long as you are moving forward and have no intention of going back to him.

You still need to get the divorce papers filed and him served as soon as possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

How is it that he is having an emotional affair but you weren't?

He confided in her about marital issues, and you confided in your new man. 

Is there something else? I think both of you are wrong to have talked to anyone other than your spouse about marital conflict (except a therapist), but has he done anything more than what you were doing?

In your case, the OM benefited from his own advice to you to move out--he swooped in. Clearly he, at least, was emotionally involved.

While there may be very good reasons for ending your marriage, there is no good reason to get involved again until you figure out what you did wrong in the marriage, even if it wasn't 50% of the wrong--you contributed too. So take the time to BE ALONE, learn about yourself, and maybe try again in a couple of years with someone who wasn't waiting to break up a marriage. 

Good luck.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

It sounds like you were having an EA, too, so I'm not sure that either of you have any high ground here. You absolutely should not rebound into a new relationships when you are still mired in the old one - it's not healthy for you, rebounds have a very poor success rate, and it's not fair to your new guy.

It also sounds like you cut off all communication, so there hasn't been any since you left. That speaks of poor communication skills and poor conflict resolution skills. You can't just leave and then not have any more conversations. You're still married, and have to discuss next steps in terms of legal separation or divorce. You can't just leave things up in the air and start carrying on a new relationship as though you aren't still married.

As for money, you haven't been married very long, so I doubt you're entitled to half the marital assets. 2 years doesn't entitle you to half his stuff, and no alimony. If you want a divorce, then tell him so and make an appointment with a lawyer so you know your rights and responsibilities.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Guilt has nothing to do with it. Practical sense should rule.
Resolve your marital situation before dating.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Let's put it this way Kat...I don't see you being voted in as a deacon at your church if they were to find out what we know. Shacking up with a new guy two weeks after leaving your husband is not going to win you a lot of favor with fundamentalists.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

I feel differently than most of the posters here. You've been married less than two years. Not even 24 months, and your husband was in a clear EA (and since they work so closely together, the chances that it was a PA is pretty high). You have no kids.

You have every right to move directly to divorce. You moved out, you let him know, and you blocked him from contacting you. In my mind, that is a very clear separation. It's about as clear as it gets. Your STBXH can't have been confused about what your leaving meant. He's a doctor so he is reasonably intelligent. I don't consider you dating your BF cheating. You might have had the beginning of an EA when you started talking about your problems, but you left quickly due to your H's actions. One of the big risks of being a cheating spouse is that someone else might support the spouse you're neglecting. Again, less than two years into a marriage with no kids- you're almost certainly better off leaving and starting over. 

That said, I do agree with many of the posters that rebounds relationships are tricky. Your BF swooped in, a KISA. Re-bounds, KISAs....usually it's a combination that leads to a bad ending.

Also, file for divorce as soon as you can. Start the legal process. Take that money and put it towards your future as single woman.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Separate half the funds from your joint account immediately.
> 
> Who cares if he said "something offensive" about you dipping into the pot???
> 
> ...


Yes, this is a JOINT account. Half that money is yours. Take your half out NOW before he takes all of it out and you can't get to it.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

Well, he told my mom. He completely downplayed his EA and said that i cheat and left him for different man. 
He knows that i've never been close to my mom (although my mom loves him because he's a surgeon), heck i told her that i was getting married 2 weeks before. My mom then proceeded to call me ingrate and when i told her about his EA she completely dismissed it and said that i was overreacted over a friendship. She's coming tomorrow, i don't know what his goal is. This will not end well


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Have him served. The key to ending well is ending quickly.

It is over. Make it very clear with as little emotion and as much control as you can muster.

Getting involved as quickly as you did with someone is muddying the waters. Both with your emotions and the situation in general.

Whatever the case. You definitely ended it by sealing your new relationship with sex.

Keep walking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

You feel guilty because you are seeking a technicality to justify your swift exit and attempt to bypass the grieving process. Has part of your choice to start a new relationship come from the revenge you want on him for his betrayal of trust in his EA?

I'm not going to say how you should feel, but I HIGHLY suggest taking a step back from dating and relationships completely for a thorough amount of time in order to heal and get to know and love yourself.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Lets see if I understand this correctly:



You have been married for under 2 years.


Your husband was getting close to a work colleague who was a woman and you left 2 months later because he would not break off that friendship.


He maintains that it was a close friendship and nothing in what you have revealed shows that it was anything more. But it could be an EA because he was confiding in her.


You met the OM when you worked as an intern in the office of your husband and him and though you were attracted, you had "proper boundaries" so you didn't act on it.


You also reached out to confide in OM. Then by the same definition you were doing exactly what he was doing i.e. engaging in an EA.


You are neither legally separated nor divorced (but would like to take some money from your husband so that you can file for divorce).


Your husband saw this as a separation for you to clear your mind and tried to contact you but you blocked all his communications because you needed to "clear your mind" properly. So you never received any of his messages or attempts to repair things between you.


Within 2 weeks of moving out you started to fvck this OM while dating - it started by him "finding you a place to stay, helping you to unpack and you cooking him dinner and then entering into a romance with him (to put it politely)". Very noble of him. As far as you know your husband did not fvck the OW.


And to make matters worse he drives your car (still part of the shared marital property) and your husband has to see this and have his guts torn from him.


And when he still approaches you to ask him why your first thought is "how did he find me" and then "should I feel guilty".


And then you also expect everyone to believe that you did not leave with the intention of hooking up with POSOM!


Hmmm - lemme see - should you feel guilty ?

Me, I think that you should send your husband here too - looks like he's going to need more help than you. By the way is this POS better in the sack than your husband or better at anything than your husband ? I hope its worth it to you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

His side of the story would be interesting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

KatViolet said:


> There are no separation agreement but at our final serious conversation (we'd had a bunch where i caught him lying), i told him to limit his contact with her or i'd left, he agreed to that pact although he said that i was being paranoid. Next day when he was in shower after work i read his text and there was it, my breaking point. He was still in contact with her, she thanked him for the coffee and hoped that the wife problem would go away. First,i upset that he broke that pact, second, our conversation should be intimate but he told her of all people about it. Well wife stuck to the pact and finally left, per our agreement
> 
> It's not legal but that's good enough agreement right ?


I have been taking you at your word but I am thinking you did not inform your H that you are going to divorce him.

I think you might be feeling guilty because you have been less than forthright with your husband about what is going on with you.

The timing of you hopping into bed with a man you already admitted you are attracted to is highly suspicious.

If your husband was here, I would tell him to investigate and if he found anything, to expose.

Is that what you're afraid of?

Have you been crystal clear and totally forthcoming about details to this forum?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Let me ask you,how old are you ? I feel kinda that you are 18.

You dont deserve your husband and he does not deserve you,please divorce,your marriage is so bad.

You could not wait and work on your marriage,you just go with your new guy.

I am sorry for you and your husband,both of you need to grow up.
You dont love your husband for sure,and I feel the same for him.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> Lets see if I understand this correctly:
> 
> -You have been married for under 2 years
> -Your husband was getting close to a work colleague who was a woman and you left 2 months later because he would not break off that friendship.[/LIST]


Yes to both points



manfromlamancha said:


> He maintains that it was a close friendship and nothing in what you have revealed shows that it was anything more. But it could be an EA because he was confiding in her.


He wasn't just confiding about our problem, he also took her to movies, dinner together at cafe, lunch together almost everyday, went to bookstores etc. And he lied about those, told me that he worked late



manfromlamancha said:


> You met the OM when you worked as an intern in the office of your husband and him and though you were attracted, you had "proper boundaries" so you didn't act on it.


A. It's not my husband's office but the new guy's office, my husband introduced me to him because we used to work in the same field. It was a mere a physical attraction, his physical and face look similar to my current husband and i had never acted on it



manfromlamancha said:


> You also reached out to confide in OM. Then by the same definition you were doing exactly what he was doing i.e. engaging in an EA.


 I told new guy about my problem when we accidentally met in starbucks, but i never took him out on lunch or coffee or theater. I was so confused and tired of being humiliated and gaslighted and he has experience on it, so i talked to him




manfromlamancha said:


> -You are neither legally separated nor divorced (but would like to take some money from your husband so that you can file for divorce).
> -Your husband saw this as a separation for you to clear your mind and tried to contact you but you blocked all his communications because you needed to "clear your mind" properly. So you never received any of his messages or attempts to repair things between you.


Yes to both. I'm trying to find a decent lawyer but with my mom coming i have to do that later.
I finally read all of blocked emails from him. His first email was not an apology but the usual 'you're overreacted' and asked me to go home and talk. After that followed by baraged of angry emails, the apologies came about 4 days after i left. 
Actually my precise words to him were "i'd leave, we'd be done", i meant that but he didn't took it seriously and was still close with her



manfromlamancha said:


> And when he still approaches you to ask him why your first thought is "how did he find me" and then "should I feel guilty".


 Simply because during his EA he didn't give rat's ass about me, i might as well be invisible and suddenly he claimed that he still loves me ? Put it this way, if someone hit punch you and after that told you that he love you very much, would you believe it right away or not ?



manfromlamancha said:


> -Within 2 weeks of moving out you started to fvck this OM while dating - it started by him "finding you a place to stay, helping you to unpack and you cooking him dinner and then entering into a romance with him (to put it politely)". Very noble of him. As far as you know your husband did not fvck the OW.
> -And then you also expect everyone to believe that you did not leave with the intention of hooking up with POSOM!


As far as i know, but they spend almost 10 hours together a day, my mind does wander
New guy helped and he was there, i'm not trying to paint it as a romance, the more i look into it i think it's unfair for him that i use him as an emotional crutch


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Mads said:


> Divorce first...take the time to grieve and heal...before dating.


I agree. I never understood what the big rush was to get with somebody else after a failed relationship, but I guess we're all different.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

This still sounds like you are trying to justify you actions. Whatever you say, you are still married and you cheated with another man both emotionally and physically. And furthermore you are flaunting it in your husbands face by letting him drive your car where hubby can see him (it's called twisting the knife). All this is reprehensible!


It just looks like you 



Fancied the POSOM (and he is a POS because he knew you were married and furthermore to his friend);


Had problems with your husband and used this as an excuse to go fvck the POSOM;


Made sure you were not disturbed by hubby (or others) while doing the fvcking by making sure he didn't know where you were and shutting down all communication channels with him by blocking him (you opened up the channels later once you had done your deed to read his messages);


Basically let go of the old branch (your husband) once you had secured the new branch (POSOM) who is a similarly qualified and similar looking guy to your hubby, except that he was one you had the hots for.


Went on to cruelly flaunt it in his face showing no remorse at all.

Now your hubby may well have done wrong things too but yes, what you did was wrong and cruel and you should be feeling guilty as hell!


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

If a man came on here and posted about his wife going out with one special opposite-sex coworker to the movies, going out to dinner, going to lunch every day, and furthermore that the wife was lying about it to her husband saying she was just working late, he would be advised that his wife was in an affair. That is exactly what happened here, with her husband.

This is way more than "having problems with your husband." This is "having a cheating husband". 

Her husband was cheating with another woman for two months before the OP moved out. She gave him a chance to knock it off and he didn't. 

She has been married even now, less than two years. He lasted *maybe 18-20 months* before he stepped out on her. They have no kids. Why should she put up with this treatment from her husband? Why shouldn't she cut his a$$ off and go fully no contact? 

I think I am just more hardcore than most. I have broken off relationships like the OP, albeit not marriages. But if someone cheats, the betrayed person doesn't owe the cheater a chance to reconcile. I never felt the need to explain my reasoning more than once. I never dated idiots.

He cheated, now he's sad that she's moving on? To quote ChumpLady, "Poor sausage!" 

Life is rough. Once you step out on your SO, you lose your right to the relationship. Any grace the betrayed offers you is a gift. She was not obligated to offer him anything and she didn't. 

Yes, she should get the divorce. There are many people who feel that any dating until divorced is wrong. I am not one of them. I doubt her re-bound will last, but her behavior is not at all reprehensible in my opinion. She just did what most BHs are encouraged to do- go no contact/180 and hook up with someone else (younger/hotter is the usual BH recommendation.)

I am basing this on the assumption that her timeline is true, that her husband stepped out and she left afterwards. But, the timeline make sense to me. There are many spouses who leave when they find that their spouse is cheating- you just don't find too many of them on TAM. 



manfromlamancha said:


> This still sounds like you are trying to justify you actions. Whatever you say, you are still married and you cheated with another man both emotionally and physically. And furthermore you are flaunting it in your husbands face by letting him drive your car where hubby can see him (it's called twisting the knife). All this is reprehensible!
> 
> 
> It just looks like you
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

KatViolet said:


> Yes to both points
> 
> 
> He wasn't just confiding about our problem, he also took her to movies, dinner together at cafe, lunch together almost everyday, went to bookstores etc. And he lied about those, told me that he worked late
> ...


He was more than likely having sex with her.

I don't think you should feel guilty about ending it.

I would still remark that jumping the current man was more than probably a bad choice.

Hope your divorce goes well. Love your mom but don't take any crap about staying with your cheating husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Might as well file for D. And since you're a strong independent woman, do the honorable thing and don't ask for a dime from him. Support yourself or have that POS support you.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

jsmart said:


> Might as well file for D. And since you're a strong independent woman, do the honorable thing and don't ask for a dime from him. Support yourself or have that POS support you.


Oooh sarcasm, did you bother to read the whole thread or at least my responds ?

And yes i'm a strong independent woman, husband treated me like sh1t, oh wait no, he didn't treat me at all cause i was invisible to him unless he wanted to have sex every other day so i pulled myself together, put the rational first and walked away because i'm not a blowup doll/doormat. If i were some stepford wives i'd stay because he's a surgeon with great income, i could sip margarita by our pool all day, buy $200 face cream and lock it down with 2 children but that's not me. I prefer dignity over cash


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

RoseAglow said:


> She just did what most BHs are encouraged to do- go no contact/180 and hook up with someone else (younger/hotter is the usual BH recommendation.)


The thoughts of a few male TAM members who subscribe to the above, do not make it universally accepted by other male TAM members (of which I am one). So please, no gender stereotyping.

IMNSHO Kat should not feel guilty. Kat did not cheat and she has no reason to take her STBXWH back. She is done, good riddance to WH. If Kat and the new guy are on the same page as to what their expectations for one another are, then fantastic. The problem lies when one or both have hidden expectations and it blows up in their faces. I just hope Kat has been 100% honest with the new guy about what her expectations are regarding their relationship. That's all.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Look, I'm sure your husband is/was a douche but let's not play like your spotless. 

You leave your husband for an EA but then turn around and have a PA with a "friend" of his. If that's not bad enough, he has to see this POS drive the car he's paying for. I'd bet he's paying for the apartment too. 

In such a short marriage with no kids involved, it should be a quick, easy, and cheap divorce.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Kat,

As far as starting a divorce, check if your state has an indigent divorce or fee waiver procedure that will allow you to file for divorce and ask the court to waive all of the court fees associated with the process. This procedure is specifically designed to help people with limited finances end their marriages.

Also try legal aid society in your area or a volunteer lawyers program through your local bar association. Call your city or state bar association to ask for contact information or do an internet search to find them. These organizations provide no-cost (and also low-cost) legal assistance. If you are indigent, they may represent you at no cost and will file all fee waiver papers on your behalf.

Good luck.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> Kat,
> 
> As far as starting a divorce, check if your state has an indigent divorce or fee waiver procedure that will allow you to file for divorce and ask the court to waive all of the court fees associated with the process. This procedure is specifically designed to help people with limited finances end their marriages.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Yes help is there.


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## Naku (May 26, 2013)

KatViolet said:


> There are no separation agreement but at our final serious conversation (we'd had a bunch where i caught him lying), i told him to limit his contact with her or i'd left, he agreed to that pact although he said that i was being paranoid. Next day when he was in shower after work i read his text and there was it, my breaking point. He was still in contact with her, she thanked him for the coffee and hoped that the wife problem would go away. First,i upset that he broke that pact, second, our conversation should be intimate but he told her of all people about it. Well wife stuck to the pact and finally left, per our agreement
> 
> It's not legal but that's good enough agreement right ?


I'm not sure how serious his EA was, but to start sleeping with someone he knows and someone you worked with before after 2 weeks doesn't speak highly about your bond to him. Should you feel guilty? Yes. Do you? Probably or you wouldn't be asking. is that what you want to hear? I doubt it. I don't think his crime warranted yours. If you can't survive 2 months of marital problems without jumping to another man, I think you are not yet ready to be married.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Naku said:


> I'm not sure how serious his EA was, but to start sleeping with someone he knows and someone you worked with before after 2 weeks doesn't speak highly about your bond to him. Should you feel guilty? Yes. Do you? Probably or you wouldn't be asking. is that what you want to hear? I doubt it. I don't think his crime warranted yours. If you can't survive 2 months of marital problems without jumping to another man, I think you are not yet ready to be married.


I highly recommend that you go back and read her posts regarding the severity of her WH's EA and the agreement the two of them came to as far as him ending the EA. She specifically told him that if he continued with it, she would leave him for good. He broke the agreement and she made good on her promise to leave him forever. She is, morally speaking, no longer bound to the commitment of marital exclusivity with her WH.

Unless you've experienced infidelity first hand, you have no idea the magnitude of the devastation that a BS experiences. The OP has. Many BS cope with infidelity in different ways, some are healthy, and some are not. And though some of us are skeptical, and question the wisdom, of the her rebound relationship with this acquaintance of her WH (they knew each other from college, but no friendship between them was overtly stated), she is not engaging in marital betrayal.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Ha, I think some believe that your husband is worth the time and energy to grieve over. The facts are, some of us have really small breaking point, once crossed, we are done with no hesitation what-so-ever. We will walk out that door without looking back. I did the same thing you did with your husband, cut contact, moved out, change my phone number, block my ex-fiance from other sites. I told her before I left, that we were done and I meant it. Except I dated three weeks later and had a lot of fun.

I think because of your marriage status, some believe that you should of given more of your life to a man who neglected you, place you lower than a new novelty on his totem of priority, at least cheated on you with another, and wonder why you got over someone like that quickly. The facts are, that that your marriage was short, you did not have children, his neglect destroyed the bond, and you love yourself enough not to take that type of treatment.

The only thing I would not have done was get into a serious relationship right away, and I am not even going to judge you for dating someone he knew. It was not like you picked him to hurt your husband, your husband only found out accidentally. Funny thing though, once he found out you moved on and dated again, he sure spent more time and energy focused on finding you. As for dating someone he knew, you did not owe your husband anything. You are a free agent, not a free restricted agent. Once a relationship has ended, obligation and responsibilities end there. Boo hoo, if he does not like you dating someone he knows, he can enforce that boundary and detach from you.

It is good you recognize that this is a rebound and you should communicate it to the other guy. He was fulfilling your emotional needs that were neglected.

Remember, he abandoned you emotionally, he was just there for sex, someone who takes care of the home front while he works and carries on another life with someone else. It is possible to detach quickly and move on. I experienced it, and I have seen others do the same. When we are treated poorly, we build up a wall and do not spend our time running into one, trying to win something that hurt us back. We love ourselves, and we are confident that we will find another fulfilling life once we are done. The facts are, there are some who take years to recover, some who never recover, some that take months, and some of us take a short amount of time because we can logic ourselves into detachment. Still that does not mean we are indifferent, we do not lose the ability to empathize.

It is not like you wanted to see him hurt, and he should of thought about his actions before facing consequences. People like the idea of the karma bus, but in this case, there are some who feel sorry for your husband.

Personally, I do not believe in karma, his actions was the catalyst that brought upon him these sequence of events. If he was reciprocal in fulfilling the others needs, if he did not neglect you, then there is a high probability that these events would not occur.

As you stated, if he did not metaphorically punch you in the face, than factors would be different. I think his ego made him to believe that he was smart, probably see you not as his equal, and believed himself so great that you should put up with it. Well, he came across someone who does not put up with a lot of bs.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

No Ms RoseAglow, what we would say to such a man is get evidence - either that she is saying lovey dovey things to the other man or that she is in fact fvcking him! 

We would not tell him to kick up a storm, confront without real evidence of EA or PA, and definitely not to leave without a forwarding address and all communications blocked to fvck his wife's colleague (that he has fancied since day one) in peace.

And if he did find evidence, still we would tell him to not leave the home, tell her what he would need her to do for R and file for D!

Then we would assure him that after all this he would find somebody younger, hotter etc.

And we would also warn him not to get entangled with his wife's POS friend!

So no, this is not a sexist thing - OP is trying to justify her actions which were wrong!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

In the end whether you feel guilty or not does not really matter - he had an EA - you fvcked his friend/colleague in an equally callous way - the two of you should get divorced asap!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

morituri said:


> I highly recommend that you go back and read her posts regarding the severity of her WH's EA and the agreement the two of them came to as far as him ending the EA. She specifically told him that if he continued with it, she would leave him for good. He broke the agreement and she made good on her promise to leave him forever. She is, morally speaking, no longer bound to the commitment of marital exclusivity with her WH.
> 
> Unless you've experienced infidelity first hand, you have no idea the magnitude of the devastation that a BS experiences. The OP has. Many BS cope with infidelity in different ways, some are healthy, and some are not. And though some of us are skeptical, and question the wisdom, of the her rebound relationship with this acquaintance of her WH (they knew each other from college, but no friendship between them was overtly stated), she is not engaging in marital betrayal.



I have experienced infidelity first hand and didn't have the benefit of TAM to help. I did read her earlier posts first hand. Here's what I read first:



2 months before i left *he started an EA with his colleague*, they are both doctors and spent a lot of hours together. He had said that they are just friends but lied to me again and again about why he was always home late, also became super snappy about everything i did. Blameshifting, gaslighting, all kind of lies, i’ve got it from him for 2 months. *Finally i moved out, i block his number and email just to make it easier for me to clear my mind.*


*The new man and husband know each other*, graduated from same university but different major. We met when i became an intern at his office, *i was already married but i knew the proper boundaries *so nothing happened. He’s *a divorced guy*, his ex wife was apparently a remorseless cheater. *I told him everything about the EA, we got closer and have been dating for 1 month.*


*Husband figured out when he saw the new guy drove my car*. Somehow *he got my new address (i hadn’t told him)*and asked how could i did that to him ? He was very emotional, ranging between fury and almost cry but i kept myself calm. I was and still am until now, confused. He didn’t give a rat’s ass about me, i was invisible but suddenly he cared ?? *He told me he had sent me emails,texts and left voicemails to ask for forgiveness. Well i blocked all of his ids* so i had no idea. *When he left my apartment he looked broken*, i genuinely sorry that he felt that way but still mind boggled about his reaction. I mean i started to date AFTER i left not during our relationship like he did, this is not cheating.


No, not yet. There are no legal separation here just divorce, and for that i'll need retainer for the attorney. I could if i take the money from our joint account but he is the sole contributor for it and during our argument he said something offensive about that so i think i shouldn't take a cent from it.


Yes, we're doing what normal couple do when they date.


*We talked when i was still with my husband, mostly me asking him for advice. He read the texts that my husband sent to me and told me to leave*, i knew i had to walk away so what he said pretty much just confirmed my thought. *He helped me finding apartment and when i unpacked my stuff, i made him some dinner and started from there.* After the move.


There are no separation agreement but at our final serious conversation (we'd had a bunch where i caught him lying), i told him to limit his contact with her or i'd left, he agreed to that pact although he said that i was being paranoid. Next day when he was in shower after work i read his text and there was it, my breaking point. He was still in contact with her, she thanked him for the coffee and hoped that the wife problem would go away. First,i upset that he broke that pact, second, our conversation should be intimate but he told her of all people about it. Well wife stuck to the pact and finally left, per our agreement. It's not legal but that's good enough agreement right ?


Well, he told my mom. He completely downplayed his EA and said that i cheat and left him for different man. 


He knows that i've never been close to my mom (although my mom loves him because he's a surgeon), heck i told her that i was getting married 2 weeks before. My mom then proceeded to call me ingrate and when i told her about his EA she completely dismissed it and said that i was overreacted over a friendship. She's coming tomorrow, i don't know what his goal is. This will not end well.



These were the "early posts" that I read before I made my comments. You seriously think she did nothing wrong and was justified to do what she did ? 


The POSOM advised her to leave and very soon after that fvcked her! I can't wait to see what this relationship has in store for her. She better start lining up her next surgeon real soon or maybe move on to politicians - more in line with this sort of behaviour maybe.

She had no problem with hooking up with another man of equal status (earnings) and appearance that she already fancied and taking it physical real quick while she was hiding away somewhere with all communications cut off while she did this. She must recover from losing the love of her life/husband very fast huh?


Well I guess we can all differ on our opinions. She knows whats right and whats wrong and doesn't really need any advice - just some salve for her conscience.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Just curious and for my own information, what country are you guys in that doesn't have legal separation but do have go straight to divorce ?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> I have experienced infidelity first hand and didn't have the benefit of TAM to help. I did read her earlier posts first hand. Here's what I read first:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's THE most important, yet not included, info in your reply:



KatViolet said:


> *He wasn't just confiding about our problem, he also took her to movies, dinner together at cafe, lunch together almost everyday, went to bookstores etc. And he lied about those, told me that he worked late.*


The timeline of events also shows that once she left her WH for good, it was because he continued with the EA. She went dark because she had had enough of his lies and wanted no more of his bull$h!t promises. And like most WS, he went ape sh!t crazy when he saw his BW had not just moved on but was involved with another man.

Sorry, but the only POSOM here is her STBXWH.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

morituri said:


> Here's THE most important, yet not included, info in your reply:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She came out with that bit of info after I had made my comments (you said early posts) and *all it says is that he was in an EA (possibly).* No real lovey dovey stuff! Certainly no evidence of fvcking! 

And you equate that as justification to go and fvck his colleague and friend POSOM while cutting herself of from him with no real evidence other than the fact that he was lying about his friendship with this woman doctor friend.

You can carry on defending what she did as being right, but I do not believe you are doing her any favours.

@KatViolet: if you really need advice or help you need to deal with the facts of what he did and what you did in the cold light of day. I would be happy to give you positive advice but you need to understand that both of you were wrong here.

I would not put up with your husband's behaviour either - and you need to learn from what you did wrong about it (for the future).

On a separate note, it would be good to know how you met, why you fell for him etc. Do you still have any feelings for your husband ? And are your really done with him or would you entertain a R given the right circumstances ?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

And until you have stabilised, drop this POSOM - he may not be as good for you as you think - he encouraged the break up of a marriage for his own gratification (and I think you will find more if you dig re his divorce).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

manfromlamacha.

I definitely agree that the OM was a bad move on her part. Talking to someone she found attractive about her marital problems was a very bad idea.

Then getting involved with him right out of the gate leaving her husband was another bad choice.

Leaving her cheating husband was not a bad choice.

I have a suspicion that new guy took full advantage of the situation and Kat was somewhat naive and vulnerable in her bad emotional state.

If everything Kat has said so far is accurate, I don't blame her for leaving her husband.

I'm not at all impressed with the other man.

I think she screwed up there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> She came out with that bit of info after I had made my comments (you said early posts) and *all it says is that he was in an EA (possibly).* No real lovey dovey stuff! Certainly no evidence of fvcking!


So does that clarification information she provided be deemed worthless or suspect?

An EA can be just, if not more so, devastating than a PA.



> And you equate that as justification to go and fvck his colleague and friend POSOM while cutting herself of from him with no real evidence other than the fact that he was lying about his friendship with this woman doctor friend.


No evidence? So if your wife discovered that you were taking a female co-worker to lunches, dinner and the movies while you were supposed to be working *and then lying to her face about it*, should not be considered evidence of an affair?



> You can carry on defending what she did as being right, but I do not believe you are doing her any favours.


Neither are you by accusing her of having a PA when the events of her sexual encounters happened AFTER she left her husband for good.

I do agree with you and many others here that pointed out that getting involved with another man only weeks after leaving her WH for good, was not a wise choice, and I would advise her to end this rebound relationship before it brings more pain into her world.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Rebound relationship !!??!!

She didn't work with POSOM!

He wasn't in her social circle!

She fancied him from when she worked at her husband's office!

She sought him out for advice re her marital problems!

And then she finally got a chance (and in her mind, justification) to fvck him!


Rebound relationship my a$$!


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> If everything Kat has said so far is *accurate*


Interesting that the A details came out afterwards. I'm curious, what was the point of "clearing her head"? And why would one need to block all means of communication from the other person in the previous relationship to do this? 

I think this is a story that would be very interesting to hear from the other side. It seems clear that the STBXH was not aware that the relationship is over (conceding that this does not mean that it wasn't). Again - why the need to clear the head if it was just done, over, finito? 

The answer to your question OP, is that only you know how you feel, and the same guidance that is given to so many who post here is: go with your gut. Your gut is making you feel guilty for good reason - and here's a quick test to back it up:

Drop the new guy. Take a 6 month dating/man break. If you can't do that, recognizing that it is at the VERY least a healthy approach to your divorce, then that guilty feeling is probably pretty strongly based in reality. 

I'm also interested in Rose Aglow's response to manfromlamancha. While I'm certain that a few posters would have suggested finding a new girl and fvcking their way to a new happiness, the overwhelming majority of the support would have been to get more information, once it was solid, establish boundaries, failing that determine if it was over, if it was make such clear, do 180, start living new life for themselves. THEN maybe get to the new partners -EVENTUALLY. 

One thing is pretty clear - she wasn't in love with her husband. Having been cheated on, and a quick perusal of the CWI forum shows that having to leave a partner based on an affair is usually a soul-crushing event. Being close enough with a new partner to have them driving your car around before the old partner is aware it is even over would probably not be the situation for most of the betrayed spouses (exceptions not being the rule).


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> No Ms RoseAglow, what we would say to such a man is get evidence - either that she is saying lovey dovey things to the other man or that she is in fact fvcking him!
> 
> We would not tell him to kick up a storm, confront without real evidence of EA or PA, and definitely not to leave without a forwarding address and all communications blocked to fvck his wife's colleague (that he has fancied since day one) in peace.
> 
> ...


Yes, i have evidences, morituri's post is very precise. Thanks for that one
Yes, i have confronted him with R as the initial solution
Yes, we have agreed to pact ("i'd leave, we'd be done") where he'd limit his contact with her BUT he broke it so i left

By that rule shouldn't you or whoever we you mentioned assure me to find someone else ? 



manfromlamancha said:


> In the end whether you feel guilty or not does not really matter - he had an EA - you fvcked his friend/colleague in an equally callous way - the two of you should get divorced asap!


Can you explain further, i don't see how we are the same. How is it equal ? He was still very much together with me whereas i had already left him. I have never lied or gaslighted or called him clinger while we were together



manfromlamancha said:


> Just curious and for my own information, what country are you guys in that doesn't have legal separation but do have go straight to divorce ?


Many areas in the world doesn't have that law including some states in US. Florida, Penn and Georgia are one of those states


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> Rebound relationship !!??!!
> She didn't work with POSOM!
> He wasn't in her social circle!


This have anything to do with rebound relationship ? 



manfromlamancha said:


> She fancied him from when she worked at her husband's office!


Oy, now i'm convince you didn't bother to read or maybe you just change what i've posted to fit your narration



manfromlamancha said:


> She sought him out for advice re her marital problems!


This one again, i stated in my previous post that i accidentally met him at starbucks and we got to talk. I was talking about it to him because he's the only person i knew who's been betrayed. It's difficult to talk to someone who doesn't have experience on it because they tend to have "so what didn't you do" blameshift mindset of the BS



manfromlamancha said:


> And then she finally got a chance (and in her mind, justification) to fvck him!


 Fact is not a justification. Fact is i had left when we started to date




manfromlamancha said:


> She better start lining up her next surgeon real soon or maybe move on to politicians - more in line with this sort of behaviour maybe.
> She had no problem with hooking up with another man of equal status (earnings) and appearance that she already fancied and taking it physical real quick while she was hiding away somewhere with all communications cut off while she did this. She must recover from losing the love of her life/husband very fast huh?


Too far man, too far.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> manfromlamacha.
> 
> I definitely agree that the OM was a bad move on her part. Talking to someone she found attractive about her marital problems was a very bad idea.
> 
> ...


It wasn't the wisest idea yes. Generally people who hasn't been betrayed tend to blameshift the guilt to BS, and i didn't know anyone who has this kind of experience. Deep down i know that it wasn't right that my husband treated me that way but i kept pushing that thought away but i kept telling myself that my husband was right, he was just busy and i needed to chill. When the new guy heard everything, i knew i was right. To get another person who has been in the same position, i was convinced that the small voice inside me, my gut instinct was correct. So we made that pact and you know the rest

I honestly don't have much expectation with the new guy, but for now it's nice to have someone in my team.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I agree but he could be on your team without sharing your bed.

Not impressed with that move by him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You can ignore people that have nothing to add to your situation.

There will be some who will ignore certain facts because they have a high emotional response and it confirms what their emotions are.

Some placed your husband in the victim corner and you are the bad guy to make things simplistic.

You gave him a chance and he turned around and betrayed you at the earliest opportunity again. Some posters will forget that he emotionally abandoned you as well. He left the relationship first and did not have the courtesy to tell you and carried on another relationship. He gave his time and energy to another person and used you for sex. Doesn't sound like much of a relationship.

You stopped loving him because his actions destroyed your love and the want to commit to him. Well, actions have consequences whether good or bad. It seems like neglect destroys love. Lying to you destroyed your love. Using you destroyed your love. Minimizing your emotions and making them seem inconsequential destroyed your love.

But lets forget all those factors so you have no reason why you would shut out an egotistical , lying, neglectful person out of your life. Let the lawyers do the talking, you do not have to keep in contact with him.

He tossed you aside for something new and then he throws a tantrum because someone else is interested. Wow, I cannot figure out why you do not come crawling back to a guy that treats you like the invisible woman. The only time he gives you any notice is for some sex.

Now, you must remain celibate until we, unknown people, tell you what is the correct time for you to move on with your life and we will judge you if sufficient time has not progressed. Oh, and we will tell you that you never loved your husband, and that is why you did put up with his neglect. You just happen to love and respect yourself not to put up with his crap for years instead of this short period of time. You chose to stop loving him and it was not due to any actions of his. And the fact that you have a fvck it attitude and decided to move on.

You must also follow a rule book that tells you who and who you cannot date, because it might hurt his feelings when you do not want to have anything to do with him. Now you have to soothe his ouchies because he cannot keep his words. You must place priority in someone who has little priority for you.

As for the other guy, keep your expectations low. And my rule for any relationship, it is never guaranteed to last. Make sure you will be fine on your own and find others, whether online or elsewhere to give you emotional support.

Watch out for the ex, he will try and drag you into a circle of drama. Go dark and let the lawyers handle it. Notice when it affects him, he will react. But when it comes to you, no big deal. He is focused on himself and does not focus on the pain he caused you either. He did not reflect his actions and saw how he got here. He just blames you because he is hurt.

Whether a relationship lasts or not, make sure that you will be emotionally fine afterwards. Have a fulfilling life outside of any relationship.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> No Ms RoseAglow, what we would say to such a man is get evidence - either that she is saying lovey dovey things to the other man or that she is in fact fvcking him!


She had the evidence already. She had as much as she needed to know he was cheating. Her husband preferred spending time with another woman. He was taking another specific woman to the movies and to dinners, things completely outside of a co-worker relationship. 

It is not required for a BS to find evidence of actual sex for it to be cheating. I will give much more weight to the actions of a husband taking another woman out on dates like movies and dinners over the lack of a "lovey" text. Although using a term like "wife problem" sure seems to indicate to me that both the husband and his date knew their relationship was causing problems.



> We would not tell him to kick up a storm, confront without real evidence of EA or PA, and definitely not to leave without a forwarding address and all communications blocked to fvck his wife's colleague (that he has fancied since day one) in peace.


She didn't kick up a storm. She found out he'd been lying, she confronted him, she told him to stop or she was gone. Like many waywards, her WH pooh-poohed her and continued to see his girlfriend. 

I agree that in general, men are encouraged not to leave the house. This is for legal reasons, as such an action could be considered "abandonment." However, it is very often encouraged for the BS to try to kick out the WS. It is acknowledged that NC is the fastest path to healing. Going NC when possible and LC when it's not possible is like the TAM BS Bible. "180, NC/LC" is Plan TAM, to the extent that one exists. 

The OP is more like myself, once I decided to go, I was gone quickly, swiftly, and decisively. I just left, I wasn't waiting for my Ex to make a move, and I surely wasn't relying on my Ex to do anything. The OP isn't taking his money, she just cut him out. He can talk to her lawyer.

It is unusual on TAM to see someone acting as decisively as the OP has done. I think I've seen a BH, maybe two, who popped online and put up a few posts, basically indicating that the cheating was all they needed to know and they went right to D. I think in general, people who have that sort of resolution and certainty don't find themselves on TAM. I doubt the OP here would have come to TAM if her STBXH hadn't found her and surprised her by the depth of his feeling. She didn't need TAM to find information or direction on what to do. 



> And if he did find evidence, still we would tell him to not leave the home, tell her what he would need her to do for R and file for D!


This only works if she is interested in R. She is not interested in R. 

And why on earth should she be interested? In general, BSs are encouraged to consider R if kids are involved, and if there was a period of time where the marriage was good, so that there is something to save.

She has no kids with this man. She has at most a few MONTHS of marriage that might have been good before her WH stepped out. MONTHS!! What on earth would she be fighting for? What is there that is worth the pain and struggle of recovery? 

Shoot, on TAM there was just a thread about a guy who broke up with his fiance, even with no signs at all of cheating, because they had different boundaries on opposite sex friendships. This was generally (and rightly, IMO) encouraged by the TAM posters. We know how much heartache and destruction these things cause. 

At an absolute minimum, she and her husband have very different boundaries on OSFs. Maybe to some posters, that is all they see in the OP's posts. (I see cheating on his end.)



> Then we would assure him that after all this he would find somebody younger, hotter etc.
> 
> And we would also warn him not to get entangled with his wife's POS friend!


To Mort's point earlier, not ALL men suggest that a BS go out right away and find a willing sexual partner, someone younger and hotter.

But, in pretty much every BH thread I've ever read, it is encouraged, and not necessarily after papers are filed, either. They aren't encouraged to get involved in a relationship right away- I agree with you there- but they are surely encouraged to go get the ego boost.



> So no, this is not a sexist thing - OP is trying to justify her actions which were wrong!


I didn't say it was sexist thing. I am putting her actions against what I loosely call "Plan TAM", and Plan TAM is usually directed to men, since we have more men BSs posting than women. Plan TAM is:
180, NC/LC, file for divorce, get some action for an ego boost. It is meant to help the BS along in healing. 

Based on the usual directives, she made an error in getting into a rebound relationship. But the rest of her actions fit nicely into what is generally encouraged. 

Per your posts, you seem to feel that she took some bad behavior from her husband and used it to springboard herself into her own exit affair- at least, that is how I am reading your posts.

I see her husband as cheating on her. She decided it was over- and as well know, it only takes one person to make that decision. She left her husband, clearly, strongly, unmistakably. 

Did she unwisely lean on her re-bound? Yes, sure. But he was a rebound. He became available after her husband cheated. This isn't a case of marital re-writing so that she can be justified; this is a case where the husband was out and about with another woman, lied about if often, and refused to stop. She talked to another BS and got some support and left. It's like complaining that one's wife starts dating right away once a husband moves out. If you make that call to weaken or outright destroy the marriage, you can't control the consequences. 

If she hadn't hooked up with another man I have to believe that the responses here would be "He is cheating!" If she hadn't hooked up, I think few people would find her actions of leaving and going dark objectionable. I think it would be encouraged, as is the norm.

And here is the problem with going right into a relationship. I don't consider it cheating but obviously others do. She can no longer own the storyline, as her husband has demonstrated by telling her mom that SHE left because SHE was cheating. She has complicated it for herself.

This might be projection on my part, but the OP is strong and I think she would have left, without the re-bound. I think this because it's something that I have done, and other women have done, in response to crap treatment. I see her rebound as a convenience and not a reason for her leaving. Obviously, others see it differently.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

*manfromlamancha,*

Even if I were to share your POV, the emotional neglect itself is more than enough reason for KatViolet to end her marriage. The fact that she was betrayed, twice (before and after D-day) just adds validity to her choice to leave her WH for good. 

Let's keep in mind that after she confronted him the first time, she did give him a chance for R but instead of taking it, he chose to continue with the affair.

All this discussion would be moot if not for her rebound relationship.

*KatViolet,*

The stereotype that ALL men can have sex with a woman without falling in love with her is a myth. Many a man that starts having sex with a woman, often finds himself falling head over heels for her. I've talked to single, female friends who have lamented how difficult it is to find a male FWB because the men want a commitment from them.

You may not have high expectations for the new man but are you positively sure that he doesn't have them with regards to you?



Mr.Fisty said:


> You can ignore people that have nothing to add to your situation.
> 
> There will be some who will ignore certain facts because they have a high emotional response and it confirms what their emotions are.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Very well said.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

ET1SSJonota said:


> Interesting that the A details came out afterwards. I'm curious, what was the point of "clearing her head"? And why would one need to block all means of communication from the other person in the previous relationship to do this?


Speaking from experience, I cut off all means of communication once a relationship was done due to my own anger and also for self-protection. If you know the person can't get hold of you, you don't look for a text, an email, you're not waiting by the phone. It is well-know that NC is the fastest way to get better, and it can be done when there aren't kids involved.



> I think this is a story that would be very interesting to hear from the other side. It seems clear that the STBXH was not aware that the relationship is over (conceding that this does not mean that it wasn't). Again - why the need to clear the head if it was just done, over, finito?


He should have been aware. He was given a warning and she left. It's not her fault that he didn't take her seriously.



> I'm also interested in Rose Aglow's response to manfromlamancha. While I'm certain that a few posters would have suggested finding a new girl and fvcking their way to a new happiness, the overwhelming majority of the support would have been to
> 
> get more information,
> once it was solid, establish boundaries, ....failing that determine if it was over, if it was make such clear...
> ...





Happy to oblige. 

 She found the evidence she needed.
She established very strong boundaries- she left and blocked all communication. 
She started a new life for herself.
I say she did all of the things that are normally recommended EXCEPT that she jumped into a new relationship. "Eventually" would have been better than "suddenly", I agree with you there and so has pretty much everyone posting. Its the one thing we all seem to agree on.




> One thing is pretty clear - she wasn't in love with her husband. Having been cheated on, and a quick perusal of the CWI forum shows that having to leave a partner based on an affair is usually a soul-crushing event. Being close enough with a new partner to have them driving your car around before the old partner is aware it is even over would probably not be the situation for most of the betrayed spouses (exceptions not being the rule).


It's possible that Kit and her husband dated for a long time, but they have only been married for somewhere between 12-24 months. Most people who come to TAM have been married for several years at a minimum and often for decades. 

Again, just from my experience, it hurts very badly to lose a relationship of several years. At the same time, when you KNOW that you have to go, and it is your decision, it hurts less. I think her rebound is likely helping her duck the feelings and grief. I also think that they just might be less than what we usually see on TAM. She does not have to see her husband, he can be completely dropped, and that is a rare luxury. It certainly makes things easier than having to lose your long-term life, your kids, having to put up with phone calls/holidays/parent-teacher stuff, all the things that most TAMMers have to do with their Wayward Exes.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Morituri, Fisty, RoseAglow - lets just agree to disagree! Her "evidence" seems to develop as this thread goes along.

This went from "not treating her well and lying to her about talking with an OSF from work (a doctor like him" to an EA to he must be cheating awhile in the meantime she went straight to fvck a POS that she fancied at the first chance she got. And I am not sure that he was the aggressor or initiator. And she met the a$$hole through her husband.

Of course she "fell straight out of love with her surgeon husband" because as they say, once a woman is done she is done - it's definitely not because she had already another one lined up. She just needed him "on her side" (and in her bed).

And a rebound relationship might happen with someone you have contact with not someone you "accidentally meet at Starbucks" and you are somehow convinced that he knew all about infidelity or at least marital problems and how to solve them!

As many here have said, in this case, it would be very interesting to hear the other side of this story.

If she is so convinced that she did nothing wrong, why come here and ask the question she did? Why is she feeling guilty ? After all she hated her husband enough to close all communications - until POSOM was safely in her bed! Then all communications opened up again and her husband was a "broken man"! And she is confused as to why?!?! Really?!?!

OK I'm done here. KatViolet you know deep down that what you have done is not right else why would you have come here? I have also said to you that many here would help you but you have to start acknowledging that sleeping with this guy in the way you did at the very least, might not be the wisest thing you ever did. At the very least it was too soon, and maybe with someone else not his colleague/friend (I hope your husband deals with him properly). And certainly what you did should not be referred to as "normal dating". Most "BS's" here do not behave like you did. Good luck with your new branch and maybe you should send your husband here (if you have nothing to hide from him re your thoughts, words and actions.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> Morituri, Fisty, RoseAglow - lets just agree to disagree! Her "evidence" seems to develop as this thread goes along


That is because you only want see what you want to see. No evidence to the contrary will be ever be enough for you.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

C'mon guys...we're family here. Be kind...feel the love.....


Feel the love......


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> C'mon guys...we're family here. Be kind...feel the love.....
> 
> 
> Feel the love......


Bandido, you are the wisest amongst us.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> OK I'm done here.


Might be for the best for you and me, picking out few statements while ignoring a bunch of facts, assuming too much, heavy generalization, and undermining me without evidence are not very healthy. 



I appreciate everyone who have given their time to read and posted your input. I've contacted my stbxh to meet at Sunday, trying to get a simple divorce so hopefully it'll go well. I'll definitely mention TAM to him, maybe he'll post :smile2:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

PAYNE said:


> Words can not describe how grateful I am to Dr Lawrence for helping me put my family back together. I was in a desperate situation prior to talking with him. My husband and I were on the verge of separation and divorce! Dr Lawrence helped to put my family back to together and bring much needed peace to my home.Thank you very much sir [email protected]


I guess we were do for one of these, sooner or later.

:rofl:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

KatViolet said:


> Might be for the best for you and me, picking out few statements while ignoring a bunch of facts, assuming too much, heavy generalization, and undermining me without evidence are not very healthy.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate everyone who have given their time to read and posted your input. I've contacted my stbxh to meet at Sunday, trying to get a simple divorce so hopefully it'll go well. I'll definitely mention TAM to him, maybe he'll post :smile2:


Hope it goes well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

This is just to close off comments to my friends here (not aimed at OP):
@morituri

I do have a lot of respect for your opinions and agree with you almost every time (hence the lets agree to disagree) - you might be right- maybe I'm not seeing something that you are. My gut reaction was as I stated. She asked should she feel guilty. Why ask? If we said yes, she would argue against it. If we said no, she would agree. And I was trying not to enable wrong behaviour but to genuinely help. Seems it's not needed. Anyway, peace!

@Bandit

I am beginning to think that you must be my American other brother from another mother or something like that. Peace to you too!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I guess for me, this situation sounds like there is a lot of story left out if OP is so 100% ready to cut all ties so quickly. Maybe the people I know take marriage and making the lifetime commitment to a person in marriage a lot more seriously than one strike and you're out without any sort of trying to fix things. Isn't the point of marriage to stick around and try harder first, not just run away at the first bump?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think there were several "bumps" if I'm not mistaken.

OP went through several steps and offered to attempt R, something I would not do, but her husband would not stop crossing boundaries so she held firm and left.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Yeah, that's good enough to break up from dating. But if H started the EA only 2 months before she walked out, as she said, that doesn't speak to much "trying" to fix diddly squat in a Marriage. People make mistakes, yes they do, sometimes really big ones. It's shocking to me that a married person just leaves a marriage as though they were leaving a restaurant after a bad meal.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

norajane said:


> Yeah, that's good enough to break up from dating. But if H started the EA only 2 months before she walked out, as she said, that doesn't speak to much "trying" to fix diddly squat in a Marriage. People make mistakes, yes they do, sometimes really big ones. It's shocking to me that a married person just leaves a marriage as though they were leaving a restaurant after a bad meal.


I don't know about that, norajane. There are a lot of us on TAM who are divorced, who got out of really bad situations. And we say things like, "I stayed way too long trying to fix something that couldn't be fixed" and "If I understood (or if I had stronger boundaries, etc.), I would have left much earlier, at [particular point in time]" and things of that ilk. Maybe the OP recognizes that what's wrong in her marriage can't be fixed, and she's actually smart enough to get out. Maybe this point in her marriage is that particular time.

The idea of having to try and do everything possible to try to save a marriage before leaving is damaging. I did everything I could to save my marriage, and not only was it not enough to save the marriage: 1) I still get judged by never-divorced people who think that divorcees "just didn't try hard enough," and 2) the emotional abuse grew progressively worse over time--and actually increased in opposition to my attempts to save the marriage--so choosing to stay and try to fix my marriage actually HURT ME MORE and CAUSED MORE EMOTIONAL DAMAGE than if I had gotten out earlier.

The EA is not the only reason the OP left; the EA and her husband's explicit crossing of the OP's explicitly stated boundaries were the last straw. Before that there was significant emotional neglect and abuse. Just how much abuse did you expect the OP to endure before she was entitled to leave? What is a respectable amount of abuse to take before it's socially acceptable to end a marriage?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

And... if you want to get technical, infidelity on either partner's part violates the marriage contract, essentially rendering the contract null and void. She would have been justified in leaving when she found out about the EA; she didn't have to give him the opportunity to save the marriage by ending the affair. That was generous on her part--I think it's overly generous on the part of any BS--but the OP established strong boundaries and clear conditions of moving forward in the marriage. And he violated those, as well.

So not only did he violate the original contract, but he violated the amended contract, also. I would have been out the door, too. He had his second chance, and he blew it. Life is too short to waste on fools.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm not saying she shouldn't have left or has no right to leave or should have stayed.

I'm saying that I'm shocked that a person who committed to a lifetime marriage just 2 years ago would be able to just walk away so quickly and finally, seemingly without much emotion or distress. I just don't know anyone who is emotionally capable of deciding to and ending a marriage so fast. That's why I think there's a lot more to this story that hasn't been explained. It doesn't sound like how real people feel and do things otherwise.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

norajane said:


> Yeah, that's good enough to break up from dating. But if H started the EA only 2 months before she walked out, as she said, that doesn't speak to much "trying" to fix diddly squat in a Marriage. People make mistakes, yes they do, sometimes really big ones. It's shocking to me that a married person just leaves a marriage as though they were leaving a restaurant after a bad meal.


I wouldn't have started dating immediately but would have left for much less.

If Mrs. Conan went out on dates with other men, even if proven nothing physical occurred, I would be in the divorced club that day after I found out.

OPs husband destroyed the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

norajane said:


> I'm not saying she shouldn't have left or has no right to leave or should have stayed.
> 
> I'm saying that I'm shocked that a person who committed to a lifetime marriage just 2 years ago would be able to just walk away so quickly and finally, seemingly without much emotion or distress. I just don't know anyone who is emotionally capable of deciding to and ending a marriage so fast. That's why I think there's a lot more to this story that hasn't been explained. It doesn't sound like how real people feel and do things otherwise.


I see what you're saying. I just have even harder boundaries than OP.

I've been with my wife almost 24 years and it would be over tomorrow if she cheated.

I would indeed be heartbroken and might be messed up enough to fall into someone's arms, not what I would want, but the marriage would be over that quick. She could destroy it that fast by cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I wouldn't have started dating immediately but would have left for much less.
> 
> If Mrs. Conan went out on dates with other men, even if proven nothing physical occurred, I would be in the divorced club that day after I found out.
> 
> ...


Let's keep in mind the original story and question. Clearly there is guilt felt, and the question was should there be guilt felt, and how much. 

Nora's point about the lack of any reasonable grieving of the relationship (it's weird, but not unheard of), coupled with tidbits about the new relationship (like the new partner encouraging the leaving), along with the feelings of guilt lead to one conclusion. She feels guilt because she knows she's at least to some degree being unethical. This by no means is to say that her husband ISN'T an asshat or didn't deserved to be left. That wasn't the question.

As is said in so many cases here on TAM: go with your gut. Your gut says you did something wrong. 

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see where you really responded to me at all Kat. Clearly you don't have to - but I thought I rather objectively responded to your OP. Or were you just looking for some "you go girl's" and applause, rather than actual evaluation of your situation and any potential ethical dilemmas?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

norajane said:


> I'm not saying she shouldn't have left or has no right to leave or should have stayed.
> 
> I'm saying that I'm shocked that a person who committed to a lifetime marriage just 2 years ago would be able to just walk away so quickly and finally, seemingly without much emotion or distress. I just don't know anyone who is emotionally capable of deciding to and ending a marriage so fast. That's why I think there's a lot more to this story that hasn't been explained. It doesn't sound like how real people feel and do things otherwise.


As strange as it seems, some people ARE capable of that. It doesn't mean that they are bad people or unethical. It just means that they view things differently. INTJs are one type that are capable of exactly what you describe above. Once a relationship is done, it's done, and they walk away.

It's not the way you would deal in this situation, and it's not the way I would deal. But that doesn't mean that it's wrong.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I know a lot of men and women who can say they love a person, and less than two weeks after breaking up are in bed with someone else. I've dated such women. So anymore, I have found it wise to take "I love you" with a handful of salt.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

norajane said:


> I'm not saying she shouldn't have left or has no right to leave or should have stayed.
> 
> I'm saying that I'm shocked that a person who committed to a lifetime marriage just 2 years ago would be able to just walk away so quickly and finally, seemingly without much emotion or distress.


Yeah i'm shocked too, not at my reaction *BUT* at my husband's continuous actions. I consider taking someone else at dates while married as worse than just walk away, it's a cake eating action. Gaslighting and blameshifting are actions of cowards



norajane said:


> I just don't know anyone who is emotionally capable of deciding to and ending a marriage so fast.


 Now you know one, i'd stand by his side if he were turned poor or sickly, hell if he was an addict to pill or booze i'd stay. 
But not cheating, lie to me once i'd forgive. Lie to me daily, well i have no need and time to deal with liars especially in my inner circle.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

ET1SSJonota said:


> Let's keep in mind the original story and question. Clearly there is guilt felt, and the question was should there be guilt felt, and how much.
> 
> Nora's point about the lack of any reasonable grieving of the relationship (it's weird, but not unheard of), coupled with tidbits about the new relationship (like the new partner encouraging the leaving), along with the feelings of guilt lead to one conclusion. She feels guilt because she knows she's at least to some degree being unethical. This by no means is to say that her husband ISN'T an asshat or didn't deserved to be left. That wasn't the question.
> 
> ...


 @ET1SSJonota, i read all of the reply on this thread. Off course i'm looking for all kind of reply providing that the poster have read all of my posts and take the facts into consideration. 
I've read your post and didn't reply because RoseAglow has dissected and answered your post so accurately,i may say that she's taken the words out of my mouth so i think i shouldn't post something that's very very close in terms of meaning. I clicked like to both of her posts so i thought that's sufficient.

Considering the guilt, i started to feel bad but not guilt when he looked beaten after i told him what i had been doing. I was confused because at one side i believe that i no longer owe him my loyalty because we have separated minus all the legal paper, but at one side i know he feels bad because of my actions. Then i asked myself why should i care, clearly he didn't care about me during his EA, and so on and so on. There are a lot of questions is my mind but as time goes by added with all opinions from my friends and replies i've read in here, i think the answers have slowly been unraveling


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

FeministInPink said:


> As strange as it seems, some people ARE capable of that. It doesn't mean that they are bad people or unethical. It just means that they view things differently. INTJs are one type that are capable of exactly what you describe above. Once a relationship is done, it's done, and they walk away.
> 
> It's not the way you would deal in this situation, and it's not the way I would deal. But that doesn't mean that it's wrong.


I like MBTI ! I'm not an INTJ though, but an INFJ, well known for INFJ 'door slam'. If a person walked out of terrible relationship (meaning that the trouble is brought by another party in the relationship and that person is not willing to fix it), i consider that as form of self respect. You can't control what other people want to do or what he thinks, what's the point of struggling for someone who doesn't want to be there ? 
A relationship should be carried by 2 person, if there's only 1 person who carried all the burden he/she would crushed under the burden and with that also goes the self respect, self esteem, etc. I don't want to be that person


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

Update, i've met him and we talked. He was calm but looked rather terrible. He asked a lot of detailed questions about my current living situations and relationship and i gave enough answers. I told him that the best and simplest way would be to divorce on no-fault/irreconcilable differences, he refused and said that we should go to counseling first. He told me that i'm vulnerable and it's his fault but the new guy took advantage of me so he thinks that i follow everything new guy says. I said that i've made my decision under clear conscious not troubled mind but he insisted that it isn't true. 

He said that he respects our marriage (in which my mind went "oh really, what about your new girlfriend?") and we should exhaust all of our options before divorce. I told him that there's no point of therapy, i don't trust him anymore. The problem with the irreconcilable differences is there's a waiting period, uncomfortably long enough to drag this mess around unless he agree. He said that the only way he'd agree is if we go to therapy and it doesn't work, else he'd file in ground of adultery, mine to be exact, wtf ??
There's a lot of records of them together but no proof that it ever went physical/sexting so that's useless in eyes of court.

So, therapy


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

KatViolet said:


> Update, i've met him and we talked. He was calm but looked rather terrible. He asked a lot of detailed questions about my current living situations and relationship and i gave enough answers. I told him that the best and simplest way would be to divorce on no-fault/irreconcilable differences, he refused and said that we should go to counseling first. He told me that i'm vulnerable and it's his fault but the new guy took advantage of me so he thinks that i follow everything new guy says. I said that i've made my decision under clear conscious not troubled mind but he insisted that it isn't true.
> 
> He said that he respects our marriage (in which my mind went "oh really, what about your new girlfriend?") and we should exhaust all of our options before divorce. I told him that there's no point of therapy, i don't trust him anymore. The problem with the irreconcilable differences is there's a waiting period, uncomfortably long enough to drag this mess around unless he agree. He said that the only way he'd agree is if we go to therapy and it doesn't work, else he'd file in ground of adultery, mine to be exact, wtf ??
> There's a lot of records of them together but no proof that it ever went physical/sexting so that's useless in eyes of court.
> ...


The laws in every state are different. In some states, a relationship that starts after separation is still considered adultery, if it occurs before divorce papers are filed. 

If you haven't already done so, meet with an attorney and find out exactly what the laws are. He may be able to do exactly what he's threatened, or he might be bluffing (or he might not know the laws).

To educate yourself is to protect yourself.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Sounds like you have checked out. Don't string him along. Just get a divorce. You cannot work on the marriage if you are with your new guy. Make a choice. Save the marriage or divorce and enjoy your new man. You would only be going through the motions if you keep seeing the other guy. 

I know your husband has been a d!ck and you think he deserves what he gets, but be the bigger person and don't string this out. Don't make a bad situation worse.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Sounds like you have checked out. Don't string him along. Just get a divorce. You cannot work on the marriage if you are with your new guy. Make a choice. Save the marriage or divorce and enjoy your new man. You would only be going through the motions if you keep seeing the other guy.
> 
> I know your husband has been a d!ck and you think he deserves what he gets, but be the bigger person and don't string this out. Don't make a bad situation worse.


I think you're right in theory, bandit--but, depending on the divorce laws in her state, it might be in her best interest from a legal standpoint to break it off with the new guy and do therapy for a little while and bide her time, even if she's already checked out emotionally. It's not the ideal situation, but if it's what she needs to do in order not to get fvcked over in the divorce process, then it might be worth the detour. 

Is it totally honest? No. But nobody's perfect, and he's threatening to file on grounds of adultery when she tried to be generous and file no fault, so I think she might be justified in slightly imperfect behavior.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Ditch the new guy, and go through the motions.

You can see how selfish he is by threatening you for him being the catalyst for something he created.

Funny how he proclaims to care about you and only he can decide on what terms to let the relationship go. Keep this in mind when you are going through it.

He is not the man you think he is, and he is not the man that he thinks he is. Again, this is about him and what he wants.

Protect yourself because he does not get it yet, and seek a lawyer's advice.

If I did not know any better, it is about control.

He needs and independent counselor before even seeing a marriage counselor.

Do this or else I will crush you, how loving and caring. But for him, I guess it is justifiable when under the guise of love.


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