# Not sure how to read into this...



## anonym (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok. So I have been researching some of the forums. Getting a good Idea on signs for infidelity and such. I read the Married Men's Sex Primer, which is amazing and for any man, married or not, I would recommend it. 

So Ive noticed some changes in my wife of 13 years as of late. First off probably a month or so ago, she gets mad at me because I didnt want to go dancing, and says to me she wants out. I was really taken aback by this. I get upset and she says to forget she mentioned anything. She is just being stupid. Just early last week she brought it up wanting out again. Im so confused because we go out together all the time. I do give her her space too and she will ocassionally go do her own thing with friends. I always know where she is. Who she is with. I oftentimes will drop her off and pick her up. We carpool in to work together. 

The first thing I found on here is that people will say OMG she is cheating. I dont think that is the case because of What I explained in the previous paragraph. Also, We keep our electronic equipment open. I have access to her phone. She doesn't lock it. We share a laptop. We know each other's email passwords. She has an ipad that is mostly for her that she gives me full access to. I have never found anything suspicious. We typically text each other throughout the day and we talk on the phone from work every day.

Our sex life goes up and down. We usually have sex maybe once a week. If things are going well a few times a week. And it is always great. Getting her to climax multiple times is usually not an issue. However, the last few times we had sex, She has not, which is unusual for us. We have not been on birth control for about 5 years now. We have tried a variety of birth control throughout the years and she had a bad experience with an IUD and that was the last straw. She's the type that experiences some sort of side effect of litterally any medication she takes. 

After reading the MMSP, I found that I need to turn up the alpha traits, stop letting her run the relationship, etc. So I turn it up, I took control of our relationship and I said, "this is what we are doing" And she seemed to eat it right up. Hmm..progress??

So we go out on a fantastic date this last Friday, and she tells me she is thinking of getting back on birth control. To me that was a red flag. Her explanation was that she wants me to start cumming inside of her I again said she misses climaxing together at the same time. I was very surprised for her to say this. "she says what you think this makes it easier for me to cheat on you" I explain to her things are fine now, and we know the risk we are running at this point. If she gets pregnant, she gets pregnant. She became very upset with me because maybe a year ago we had heated discussion of having a third child and I was very much against it. Now she thinks that I will concede to a 3rd child because of what we are "going through." That was not what I was getting at at all. Again, I was simply getting at that we know the risk and if it happens it happens. Its not like I can freak out. At the end of the night, we did have some good "alpha...screw your brains out doggy style" sex. But again, she did not climax.

Then the rest of the entire weekend, she seemed very distant and closed off. We spent a lot of our time on the couch cuddling, but It seemed as soon as the kids were in bed, she'd turn her attention to her laptop and play bejeweled or one those other facebook games for hours. Im right next to her the whole time. Then she calls that god damn dog up and cuddles him to death. I effing HATE that. Always that stupid dog!!! When I'm in the mood, dont call the damn dog on the bed! She barely wanted to kiss, she will hold hands and cuddle all night though. 

The week started out pretty well when I turned on the Alpha juices. But later on, I dont know. It was an awkward weekend for me. Ive barely slept or ate. I've this anxiety pain in the pit of my stomache for days.

What is also confusing thing to me is that she still wants the family time. We are visiting with her family tonight. We are going out of town this weekend to see my family. We have to move in the next few months due to foreclosure and we sit on the laptop together scouting out rental properties. She still talks about our future. We have summer plans with friends for camping a few times. We are planning a cruise with some married friends in March of next year. 

Also, I believe she has some resentment toward the house issue. She never wanted to buy a house to begin with and all it has done has caused problems. Financially it was a terrible idea, but we could afford it when we bought it. 

She has also had some personal issues over the last year. family has both moved hundreds of miles away. A close family member has passed away, and she lost her job, but not for long as she started a new one shortly afterward, but she was very close to the people at her old job, and all of this happened in the last year. 

She will be attending individual counselling later this month, but adamantly states that I am not the problem, and doesnt think we need MC. Sorry for the long read. I'm sure I may have left out crucial details. thoughts? Thanks.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

FWIW, I don't think she's cheating. She's worried that's where your mind is going first though, because of her withdrawal from you. She doesn't want you to think that of her, but she also can't pinpoint her feelings right now.

I think it's just a valley. One of those 'lows' a long term marriage/relationship goes through. The moving is a bummer, losing her former job, no family close by... it's all taking a toll. Going to counseling will help her sort through it all. 

It could be as simple as getting older too. I'm going to be 43 in a few months and honestly over the last 4 maybe 5 years I've been in quite a moody state. Hormonal fluctuations, moving (similar situation to yours), changes in my H's job and my baby leaving the nest (next week!) are all taking it's toll in one form or another. I don't sleep as well as I should among other things, but I have had to reassure my H that my ups and downs are NOT about him. Our marriage is really good, and in it I'm happy.  The circumstances AROUND me are what's eating at me. And unfortunately, I can't turn that switch off and not think too much about it.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm mostly in agreement with A Bit Much. It can be hormonal or stress induced, and since it has been less than a month, it's hard to say exactly what's going on. 

What *does* strike me as a red flag is that she perceived your reaction to her birth control suggestion with the comment, "What? You think this makes it easier for me to cheat on you?" I believe that this indicates that the idea of cheating is something she is fully aware of. If she didn't think about cheating, she wouldn't think like that. But by putting it out there as if YOU are thinking it, she can deflect attention and deny it. 

I do not think she is cheating based on what you wrote, but I think it's on her mind. I think it's possible (but not guaranteed) that her sudden change in sexual responsiveness is related to this. However, you don't describe what other problems the two of you have been having. 

It sounds like there are some problems, but it's not clear how your relationship has been affected. What made you dive into MMSL? Why did you need to "go alpha" and what were things like before you did? This would be important for evaluating what is really going on and what you need to do.


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## anonym (Apr 8, 2013)

Well Kathy, I got into the MMSL because it is all over this website that it is a must read. Reading many of the scenarios that the author wrote about, it almost sounds as if he was writing about us. I very much took a beta role. I love making my wife happy. I love showering her with attention. I found out that I gave in to her way to early. Small favors, and I basically do whatever she wants, and if we have a disagreement, I am the one to concede. She very much runs the day to day in our relationship. She almost makes all of our plans. When it comes to the bigger decisions, she says that I'm the one that makes those. Such as buying the house we have. Which I really pushed for, and it has virtually ruined us financially. What makes it worse I think, is that I am the one in charge of the finances, and the juggling act makes me look like a failure. We have substantial debt that we are not making much leway on. 

I did not go into detail of the "she wants out" It was obviously much more than that. She says that she wants passion. Wonders what its like to be indepenent. Wonders what it may be like to be with someone else. I try be passionate, and she still rejects. Its that "now that I told you want i want, it doesnt matter because I HAD to tell you" you're damned if you do damned if you dont. 

She has always hated the idea of infidelity on any level. One of her good friends cheated on her husband maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and my wife had a go at her and cut her off completely. Said that she doesn't want to be around that "trash." Cheating is disgusting, etc, etc. She swore to me she never cheated, but I understand cheaters lie. She always told me if she was going to cheat, she would call me and end it before she did anything. She has always been one of those overly honest people. Tell you like it is, without regard for the feelings of the person she is talking to.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I understand wanting passion. Again though... it's a change I'm going through. I've always had a higher drive than my H, but now I'm on hyper drive and honestly he can't keep up as much as he would like. Passion can be many things... it could be the flirting she misses, the spontaneous sex, or the make out sessions on the couch (swoon!).. the things you did when you dated could be lacking a bit.

When it comes to the finances, our relationship is like yours. He pays the bills and makes the major money decisions. When it came to our house, and things tanked for us, I was disappointed with him. We talked about it, and he apologized to me, but deep down it did cause negative feelings about him to bubble up. Like most women, financial security is very important to me. I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I don't want to be counting every dime we bring in, and I want to go out and have fun. I'm not a shopper really, and rarely spend money on myself, so he doesn't have to worry about that with me... so in turn I suppose I expect him to be just as responsible. I realize what happened was not all his fault, it's just how things ended up. Now over a year after moving, I'm no longer disappointed with him, but content with where we are.

Maybe she's holding some things over your head when it comes to the house. After all the chapter hasn't closed yet. I felt much better after we moved.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You're not stopping her from being independent. She knows this at some level. 

If you want to see changes let her know you won't tolerate the way that she's thinking and that you'll give her all the independence she wants and let someone else give her that passion if she doesn't appreciate what you bring to her life. 

Acting like you can take or leave her will satisfy her craving for the drama she's seeking. And I don't mean drama in the create arguments sense. I mean it in the "I want more excitement" sense, but it will feel dramatic to her.


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## anonym (Apr 8, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> I understand wanting passion. Again though... it's a change I'm going through. I've always had a higher drive than my H, but now I'm on hyper drive and honestly he can't keep up as much as he would like. Passion can be many things... it could be the flirting she misses, the spontaneous sex, or the make out sessions on the couch (swoon!).. the things you did when you dated could be lacking a bit.
> 
> When it comes to the finances, our relationship is like yours. He pays the bills and makes the major money decisions. When it came to our house, and things tanked for us, I was disappointed with him. We talked about it, and he apologized to me, but deep down it did cause negative feelings about him to bubble up. Like most women, financial security is very important to me. I don't want to live paycheck to paycheck. I don't want to be counting every dime we bring in, and I want to go out and have fun. I'm not a shopper really, and rarely spend money on myself, so he doesn't have to worry about that with me... so in turn I suppose I expect him to be just as responsible. I realize what happened was not all his fault, it's just how things ended up. Now over a year after moving, I'm no longer disappointed with him, but content with where we are.
> 
> Maybe she's holding some things over your head when it comes to the house. After all the chapter hasn't closed yet. I felt much better after we moved.


I think she sees things in a similar light. Its nice to get a female perspective on this. We both talk about how excited we are to get out of this stupid house and close that chapter. The only real good thing that came out of this was our youngest son was born here. This month marks 6 years of living in this house. In those times, my wife had a nasty bout of post-partem. Almost split us apart. I tapped into my retirement account twice to pay the past-due mortgage after almost getting killed myself in a car accident. Both of my wife's grandparents died. My grandfather died. My mom and step-dad almost divorced. My wife lost her job. We did renew our vows as well. But other than those few positives. This house has been a dark cloud.


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## anonym (Apr 8, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> If you want to see changes let her know you won't tolerate the way that she's thinking and that you'll give her all the independence she wants and let someone else give her that passion if she doesn't appreciate what you bring to her life.
> 
> Acting like you can take or leave her will satisfy her craving for the drama she's seeking. And I don't mean drama in the create arguments sense. I mean it in the "I want more excitement" sense, but it will feel dramatic to her.


hmm...my wife can get pretty dramatic. My initial feeling on this is that she will either call my bluff, or we will have a big argument. She knows where I stand on the someone else factor. I told her if she ever crossed the line it would be OVER! Even if she put herself in a position to cross the line, but didnt in the end would be close to over for me. She knows that I wouldnt tolerate her even putting herself in the position for that to be a factor.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

anonym said:


> I think she sees things in a similar light. Its nice to get a female perspective on this. We both talk about how excited we are to get out of this stupid house and close that chapter. The only real good thing that came out of this was our youngest son was born here. This month marks 6 years of living in this house. In those times, my wife had a nasty bout of post-partem. Almost split us apart. I tapped into my retirement account twice to pay the past-due mortgage after almost getting killed myself in a car accident. Both of my wife's grandparents died. My grandfather died. My mom and step-dad almost divorced. My wife lost her job. We did renew our vows as well. But other than those few positives. This house has been a dark cloud.



It's a dark cloud, and yet very sentimental because of your son being born and growing up there in the neighborhood for 6 years. It's funny, that's how long we were in our house. Built it new too... I got to pick everything in it. 

We still keep in contact with our old neighbors and have gotten together a few times over the past year. They all say the same thing to us. If they didn't have small kids, they would have moved too. One of my neighbors has even brought herself to tears with the thought of moving out of the house she built, though her husband wants to badly. Her father and brother happen to be real estate attorneys so there's pressure from them too. 

It was super depressing for me those last 6 months in that house. My husband left the finding of a new place to me, as he wanted to make sure it was somewhere I would be very comfortable. He told me the budget limit and I went at it. We were lucky and found something closer to his work (our house was 34 miles one way from his job) and it was a complete remodel. It has all the character and charm I wanted for my 'new' house but couldn't get because, well.. it was new. Needless to say, I'm very happy to have found this place. Financially we're in a good place, and it's going to get better. With both the kids gone, we have big plans for the two of us. lol

I miss my neighbors. They miss us too. But you know, life is about change. Some of them are good for us and we don't even know it until it happens. Maybe your wife is in that state of mind where she just isn't sure of her footing like she used to be, and that can be a little unnerving. There are things you thought when you were younger that could/wouldn't ever happen to you or that you wouldn't ever do. Then you find out as you get older... never say never. Life is funny that way.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Just going to throw this in

Don't have another child until you know what's going on with this marriage. PERIOD


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

All I can tell you is not every woman that is discontent in marriage or cant have an orgasm is thinking of or let alone having an affair.Look at the divorce statistics (how often women file) in comparison to how women commit adultery.

As far as her wanting to get on BC so you can ..ya know inside her?Maybe you should take that at face value.If you are pulling out every time? After a while it could really be a feeling of "incompleteness".

Also her comment about "what you think it would make it easier to get away with cheating".

Think back..have you ever even hinted at that? Even in general not even referring to her cheating on you?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"She says that she wants passion. Wonders what its like to be indepenent. Wonders what it may be like to be with someone else. I try be passionate, and she still rejects."

This is a huge red flag, you know that, right?

If someone is telling you straight up that they want to know what it is like to be with someone else, you should believe that they are telling you the truth about their desires.


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## anonym (Apr 8, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> All I can tell you is not every woman that is discontent in marriage or cant have an orgasm is thinking of or let alone having an affair.Look at the divorce statistics (how often women file) in comparison to how women commit adultery.
> 
> As far as her wanting to get on BC so you can ..ya know inside her?Maybe you should take that at face value.If you are pulling out every time? After a while it could really be a feeling of "incompleteness".
> 
> ...


Great...so how the heck do I get her to not think that?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> "She says that she wants passion. Wonders what its like to be indepenent. Wonders what it may be like to be with someone else. I try be passionate, and she still rejects."
> 
> This is a huge red flag, you know that, right?
> 
> *If someone is telling you straight up that they want to know what it is like to be with someone else, you should believe that they are telling you the truth about their desires*.


But she also says this:



> She has always hated the idea of infidelity on any level. One of her good friends cheated on her husband maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and my wife had a go at her and cut her off completely. Said that she doesn't want to be around that "trash." Cheating is disgusting, etc, etc.


I think she's just vocalizing what she's feeling at the moment, not really considering what she's saying and it's impact on her marriage.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What she felt about what her friend did 5 or 6 years ago literally has nothing to do with her telling you straight up that she wonders what it may be like to be with someone else.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

anonym said:


> Great...so how the heck do I get her to not think that?


Have you ever hinted to that? BC (in general) allows women to get away easier with cheating?

Im not quite sure what you are asking me to "get her not to think".


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

anonym said:


> hmm...my wife can get pretty dramatic. My initial feeling on this is that she will either call my bluff, or we will have a big argument. She knows where I stand on the someone else factor. I told her if she ever crossed the line it would be OVER! Even if she put herself in a position to cross the line, but didnt in the end would be close to over for me. She knows that I wouldnt tolerate her even putting herself in the position for that to be a factor.


So if I am understanding correctly... 

Your wife has been unhappy enough to say she wants out, at least occasionally. She says it's not you or the marriage, but waves a red flag by wanting to get back on birth control and projecting cheating by acting like it's you that's thinking about when she brought it up. She feels dissatisfied because she thinks passion is lacking in her life. 

But you think she'd "call your bluff" if you said you won't tolerate her acting like she's ready to cheat? 

I guess I don't see the problem with that. I'm not telling you to make threats, but I think it's time for her to remember to treat you well. 

It sounds as if she'd benefit from taking time to figure out what she thinks her purpose in life is, and whether she is doing enough to fulfill it.


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## anonym (Apr 8, 2013)

updates...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...32-sometimes-just-takes-listening-family.html


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