# Just Found Out My Wife Stole $94K from our Retirement Account



## longhorns

I found out today my wife of 12 yrs has stolen over the last 2 yrs $94,000 dollars from our retirement account by selling stock and direct depositing it into a secret checking account I found. We both work and make decent money. In fact, she makes a little more than me which is great. The account is almost empty now. I'm not a stickler with $. Would I ask what large expenditures were at times yes and did we have occasional arguments about it? Yes. Our retirement plans or college education plans for our 4, 7 and 10 yr old have been severely affected. My trust is gone. I am so sad right now. The betrayal I am feeling is suffocating. 

She can't explain what she did with the money. Just saying she used it on the kids and expenses. It is way too much money and I do the bills and pay the credit cards. Those normal expenses I've seen over years did not go down. I can't fathom where so much $ went over 2 yrs. I don't think she is cheating on me. I don't think she has a drug addiction. It is all so hurtful. I don't know where we go from here. I have lost all trust. It's like I was living with another person all these yrs. 

Anyone have advise? Thoughts? Anyone been through something like this?


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## MattMatt

Get a PI on her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away

*Obviously* you need to seek legal counsel. NOW! I AM NOT ****ING KIDDING!!!

SHE HAS A PLAN, YOU AREN'T PART OF IT!!!

She's about to leave you with nothing, and she has a really good fresh start ad it seems.


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## synthetic

If you rule out gambling (which is my number 1 suspicion), chances are the money is not gone at all. She's most likely planning to leave you at some point in the future and she has successfully stolen $94K of your marital assets without much effort.

Time to trace the money. For a middle-class wife, it's hard to spend $94K without getting noticed by the husband or children. I don't think she has spent it. She has most likely slowly converted it into cash or has given away to demand it back later.


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## Holland

Just for clarity, do you mean a standard bank account? In Aus you cannot withdraw money from a Super Annuation acct until retirement except under extreme circumstances.

As for you situation I would tell her you need an explanation today or you will seek the services of a Forensic Accountant.


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## bandit.45

She's building a nest egg to....nest without you. Hire a PI or start doing some covert sleuthing. She has a man on the side I would bet. 

Oh, it is also theft. I would go see a lawyer.


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## Constable Odo

$95k is a nice down-payment for a tummy-tuck and new breasts.


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## BradWesley

Let me get this straight. You handle the money in the house, pay the bills and credit cards, but yet over a 2 year period you never checked your retirement account?

Not really passing the smell test.


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## Unique Username

Either gambling or shopping addiction 


or she is setting herself up to leave you.

Whatever it is, you need to immediately find out what. BALONEY on the can't explain what she did with the money...bald faced lie. She knows - she needs to own it.

Being married all assets are joint...and so are the liabilities.

Once you know what's happening, you need to decide if you will forgive or split.


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## tripad

My ex squander away my savings by getting into debts and then begging me to help with promises to make good the debts and be a better dad n husband .

On hind sight i should let him sink.

I never know where the money went .

He claimed it's for debts his parents and sisters incurred for renovations, shopping , luxuries , cars . Plus his own little luxuries purchases here and there .

See i am the woman but i paid bulk of family expenses as he constantly refused to pay .

I never knew if there's a woman . 

I divorced him upon no remorse during counselling . Upon separation , he asked me to pay more debts which i refused . Then i saw more debts coming in so i realised he had built up more debts over the last few years . After i cleared his debts , i just gave him good credit rating to borrow again . 

We are both professionals with above 10k salary . 

So there's a secret i dont know . 

I divorced n have no wish to know . 

Upon divorce , i discovered more debts n more debts .

So for you . I think there is more you dont know .

You count yourself lucky if she only blew the funds .


There may be debts she is financing . Expenditure unknown . 

Frankly i suspect woman in my case on top of in laws who "robs" 

If there is a woman , i guess the woman left him now as i understood from the kids that the father is renting a room only now . With legal fees and having to pay his own food and rent expenses and debts , there will be no money left for the woman . I will never uncover this fact .

So you better check if she has mortgage the house by forging your signature .

Next , speaking from experience , never buy her sob story or promises , and settle her debts if any . Save whatever you have for the kids now .

If need be , let her go bankrupt , she got to learn and pay her own price . Don't compromise the kids anymore .


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## syhoybenden

male escorts?

adopted a village in Africa?

crystal meth?

donations to scientology?

hidden cache of Fabergé eggs?

:scratchhead:


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## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> She's building a nest egg to....nest without you. Hire a PI or start doing some covert sleuthing. She has a man on the side I would bet.
> 
> Oh, it is also theft. I would go see a lawyer.


*Totally agreed that it is theft! Let's just say that there's a hell of a lot of people doing hard time in a state or federal penitentiary cell for stealing far, far less than she has! 

Contingent upon which state you are a resident of and when those plans were initiated, you could well have some community property concerns. In any event, if you made her a signatory to your account, other than for your being an unwitting victim of say, a debilitating illness or possibly of death, you would be the proverbial "dumbass" to have ever permitted her to be such a signatory on your account ~ I'd greatly bet the farm that you don't have reciprocal privileges with her retirement account. 

@Bandit is so very right! Get a forensic CPA involved and trace those transactions. I would also get a PI involved, or in the very least, start playing Sherlock Holmes with her emails, social media accounts, cell phone/texting records, and possibly resorting to placing a VAR up under her car seat! Additionally, I'd recommend that you bring your attorney into the fray because contingent upon your jurisdiction, your W might possibly be charged with theft from you greatly despite the fact that you are married to her! In time, she may be answering to a state DA or a federal prosecutor over her actions, much less a divorce or family attorney!

You are living with someone who has you vested as their Plan A only up until such time that they successfully drain the kitty, that at which time, you'll become Plan Z, and will be left sitting there financially "high and dry!" She sounds a whole lot like my RSXW who is a preeminent master of moving other folks money around!

Get off of your ass and get proactive! 

The livelihood that you come to save may well be your very own!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349

BradWesley said:


> Let me get this straight. You handle the money in the house, pay the bills and credit cards, but yet over a 2 year period you never checked your retirement account?
> 
> Not really passing the smell test.


:iagree:

If you are handling the money you are doing a horrible job. You said she sold stock from you retirement account over 2 years. If you didn't know about it you have a huge tax liability and need to file ammended returns.

Your wife either has a gambling or drug problem or she is planning on leaving you.

Run both of your credit reports, place a fraud alert on them so she can't open any new credit, put a freeze on active credit. Put all of your accounts on lockdown so she can't access any more funds. Get a PO box so she can't divert your mail.


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## Dycedarg

She didn't spend it on the kids, dude. I'm sorry. 

There are only a very limited number of explanations for this kind of behavior, and none of them are good. 

You need to protect yourself. Right now.


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## thefam

Do you live in the U.S.? Was this really a retirement account? If so, was it not reported on your taxes? Also IIRC, when I rolled over funds from where I use to work my H had to sign saying it was OK. 

If this story is true your wife has committed a handful of crimes against you. It would be hard to get over something like that unless she does have some kind of addiction. You really do need to get proactive and do something about this. No time for getting in your feelings because that will distract you from doing what you need to do. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2

My former nextdoor neighbor wiped out his families retirement and college savings on drugs. His wife, a doctor, never suspected until she found him incoherent and vomiting blood on the living room floor one night.

Some folks are much better at hiding their real selves than others.


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## EnjoliWoman

AGree with the others. Get to the bottom of it. Either she blew a large sum and you need to know or she's hiding it and planning to leave. 

Although a PI would find out if she's cheating, I think what you need is a forensic accountant. Have them dig deep and see what other accounts she has and what the balances are, if she has savings or money market account she is transferring that into.

But a good place to start is your credit reports. Do you get an annual one from all 3 bureaus? If not, I suggest you pull her reports. All you need is her social security number and create a log-in and password. But at least it will list all of her credit accounts. You may find she has some credit cards you didn't even know she had. She might have been using that money to pay off those cards she never told you about.


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## Constable Odo

arbitrator said:


> Contingent upon which state you are a resident of and when those plans were initiated, you could well have some community property concerns. In any event, if you made her a signatory to your account, other than for your being an unwitting victim of say, a debilitating illness or possibly of death, you would be the proverbial "dumbass" to have ever permitted her to be such a signatory on your account ~ I'd greatly bet the farm that you don't have reciprocal privileges with her retirement account.


Based on the OP's post, I interpreted the phrase "retirement account" as being a joint account they set up somewhere to deposit money into for their future, opposed to, say, a 401K at Fidelity.

Specifics in this instance do matter, since legalities and tax implications vary dramatically based on exactly what type of "account" we're talking about.


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## arbitrator

Constable Odo said:


> Based on the OP's post, I interpreted the phrase "retirement account" as being a joint account they set up somewhere to deposit money into for their future, opposed to, say, a 401K at Fidelity.
> 
> Specifics in this instance do matter, since legalities and tax implications vary dramatically based on exactly what type of "account" we're talking about.


*Are you saying she had the legal right to withdraw his funds even without his tacit approval? I would seriously beg to differ!

Unless, of course, that he either knowingly or unwittingly gave her that privilege!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReidWright

secret checking account?

make her give you the online passwords and just go pull up the old statements...probably even has pictures of the cancelled checks on there nowadays. 

check her purse, and car, for receipts. That kind of money just doesn't evaporate; there's a trail.


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## Lostinthought61

94K over two years...sounds like she has been supporting someone....can you have her arrested ?

My point being is that i think this the tip f the iceberg....you will need to do some forensic accounting....but speak to lawyer if you can bring criminal charges against her she might remember what she did but she will fight to keep it a secret. also consider this, this must be very huge if she knew she would get caught....search telephone bills, burner phone, think back what happen two years ago.....missing time...you have to really play detective


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## tripad

The legal fees may not be worth it as you not be able to uncover and recover . 

Also legal system may or may not help you depending on details .

If it is joint account she can say she withdraw with consent . You say she say . No proof and you are left helpless . 

Consult lawyer . Check with accountant .


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## Constable Odo

arbitrator said:


> *Are you saying she had the legal right to withdraw his funds even without his tacit approval? I would seriously beg to differ!*


*

What I'm saying is many people use the generic phrase "retirement account", which can refer to many different things, from a Money Market account at a local bank, all the way to a brokerage or 401K account at a financial institution like Fidelity.

Specifics in this case do matter, so, rather than everyone going off telling the OP what to do, the OP should give some additional information on what type of account he is talking about.

If, for example, he's talking about a simple money market account at a local bank on which both he and his wife were listed as joint owners of, then she had every legal right to withdraw every dime, although clearly this action is not moral.*


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## tripad

Yes

In joint account she withdraws and she gets to walk


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## arbitrator

Constable Odo said:


> What I'm saying is many people use the generic phrase "retirement account", which can refer to many different things, from a Money Market account at a local bank, all the way to a brokerage or 401K account at a financial institution like Fidelity.
> 
> Specifics in this case do matter, so, rather than everyone going off telling the OP what to do, the OP should give some additional information on what type of account he is talking about.
> 
> If, for example, he's talking about a simple money market account at a local bank on which both he and his wife were listed as joint owners of, then she had every legal right to withdraw every dime, although clearly this action is not moral.


*Which makes perfect sense, Constable! Sorry, but I was pretty well straight-lined on the subject matter of 401k's. Agree with you entirely in that instance!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
I know you both have good incomes but is money tight - due to mortgages etc? 

This sure sounds like gambling / drug money. Unless you are very wealthy that much money can't just vanish into "expenses". 

I think you should ask her to tell you how it was spent, or you divorce and take legal action for theft. If she has some addition, you can decide if you want to help her - but theft is just not acceptable.


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## Constable Odo

arbitrator said:


> Which makes perfect sense, Constable! Sorry, but I was pretty well straight-lined on the subject matter of 401k's. Agree with you entirely in that instance!


Understandable.

Even in the case of an individually-owned brokerage account, he may have issues proving she "stole" the money. Theoretically speaking it would be entirely possible for his wife, if she knew his password, could to log in, add a new bank account, and then liquidate the account. Of course she'd have to do other things, like intercept the trade confirmation and settlement emails, but depending on how things were set up, she could have even redirected those to a new email address.

Assuming she did all this from their home, it would be hard to prove he did not do it himself, since, presumably, their home internet would be NATed behind their router, so the IP address logged would simply indicate their home without specifics as to who in the house initiated the transaction.

I'm not sure of the law in this instance; if he attempted to raise the issue with legal authorities she could simply claim he was the one who initiated the trades and agreed to give him the funding.

It becomes a he-said she-said, without getting into a detailed forensic investigation as to the times the trades were initiated, and whether or not he was at home, work, etc., and then link everything to an IP address, which would require a subpoena to the internet company, etc.

I'm also sure brokerages hear this type of thing all the time from people who are attempting to live beyond their means and try to pull a fast-one.

When the OP updates this thread, should be interesting to see what he has to offer.

Based on the original posting, I wasn't thinking 401k/brokerage account because there is more ability to discover the theft of the money (e.g. those settlement emails, a 1099-DIV or 1099-INT at the end of the year, etc) than there is if it were, say, a straight MMA at a local bank.


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## 6301

I know one thing for sure. You better keep your own finances in a separate account and what's left in your retirement account you better keep it secure or you'll have nothing left. Then you can find out what she did with the money and I wold find a lawyer and get rid of her. She's a thief. Yeah I know that it's half hers but no matter how you slice it it's stealing. Where's the trust.


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## Mrs.Submission

I'm getting secret addiction vibes here. Either that or she is planning on leaving. 

My husband handles most of our money but I have access to it and full disclosure of our situation. 

He would likely divorce me if I betrayed him like this. We are completely open about our finances.


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## toonaive

gouge_away said:


> *Obviously* you need to seek legal counsel. NOW! I AM NOT ****ING KIDDING!!!
> 
> SHE HAS A PLAN, YOU AREN'T PART OF IT!!!
> 
> She's about to leave you with nothing, and she has a really good fresh start ad it seems.


This!


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## Runs like Dog

Drugs, guns, escorts, vodka.


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## Yeswecan

Betting on the ponies? Running the lines in Vegas? Either way, $94k and nothing to show for it? I call BS.


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## Satya

I hope the OP updates.


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## happy as a clam

Satya said:


> I hope the OP updates.


:iagree:

Interestingly, we have not heard another word from OP.


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## jb02157

As much as it will be hard to do, the most important thing right now is don't tell her you know. You need to find out where all this money went and you'll never find out a thing if she start hiding the evidence. Right now she's been doing it for years and getting away with it so she's probably not trying that hard to hide the evidence. Hire a PI and get a VAR for her car. Most of the time when this happens there is another man in the picture and her plan is to take all the money and dump you. On all the other accounts make sure you have passwords on everything so she can't take anything else. Tell her that you're worried that your accounts are being hacked.


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## sidney2718

All the advice so far has been good advice. My only addition is to say GET A LAWYER FIRST and DO IT YESTERDAY.

This could escalate into a criminal matter and//or a divorce and you need to know the law where you live. Don't dither. GO NOW.


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## gouge_away

tripad said:


> Yes
> 
> In joint account she withdraws and she gets to walk


She doesn't get to walk!

Once those papers are filed she faces charges of squandering marital assets, unless she can show proof of cause.

None of this will get his money back, but he might be totally off the hook for maintenance and equitable property division.

It all depends on if he is in an "equal" or "equitable" property state.


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## Nucking Futs

Runs like Dog said:


> Drugs, guns, escorts, vodka.


Sounds like fun, I'm in!


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## Runs like Dog

Nucking Futs said:


> Sounds like fun, I'm in!



Maybe I'm excessively anal and paranoid but I would not lose track 94,000. So if you're going to steal, steal it all.


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## tripad

gouge_away said:


> tripad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> In joint account she withdraws and she gets to walk
> 
> 
> 
> She doesn't get to walk!
> 
> Once those papers are filed she faces charges of squandering marital assets, unless she can show proof of cause.
> 
> None of this will get his money back, but he might be totally off the hook for maintenance and equitable property division.
> 
> It all depends on if he is in an "equal" or "equitable" property state.
Click to expand...


In joint account , she can empty it , legally .


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## Tobin

gouge_away said:


> She doesn't get to walk!
> 
> Once those papers are filed she faces charges of squandering marital assets, unless she can show proof of cause.
> 
> None of this will get his money back, but he might be totally off the hook for maintenance and equitable property division.
> 
> It all depends on if he is in an "equal" or "equitable" property state.


It also depends on whether or not they divorce in the near future. In my locale, the courts do a 3 year look back. So if I was in the Ops position the courts "might" penalize her for withdrawing those funds and award him half the amount she took. Or, they might accept her explanation that the money was used for the kids. You never know. These things aint written in stone ya know. 

Then again most divorces don't go to trial, so what would likely happen "if" they subsequently divorce is that she "might" agree to give him a credit of half of what she took against some other joint marital asset to be divided such as the house.

But realistically, she might just say "screw off, if you want a divorce, then you don't get to consider the money in the account because I used it for the kids and expenses that were not being paid and if you want a divorce, fine but we don't consider that money when we split everything".

That's how it usually works.


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## gouge_away

It comes down to who has the burden of proof, that is why you MUST speak with an attny asap.


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## tripad

Tobin said:


> gouge_away said:
> 
> 
> 
> She doesn't get to walk!
> 
> Once those papers are filed she faces charges of squandering marital assets, unless she can show proof of cause.
> 
> None of this will get his money back, but he might be totally off the hook for maintenance and equitable property division.
> 
> It all depends on if he is in an "equal" or "equitable" property state.
> 
> 
> 
> It also depends on whether or not they divorce in the near future. In my locale, the courts do a 3 year look back. So if I was in the Ops position the courts "might" penalize her for withdrawing those funds and award him half the amount she took. Or, they might accept her explanation that the money was used for the kids. You never know. These things aint written in stone ya know.
> 
> Then again most divorces don't go to trial, so what would likely happen "if" they subsequently divorce is that she "might" agree to give him a credit of half of what she took against some other joint marital asset to be divided such as the house.
> 
> But realistically, she might just say "screw off, if you want a divorce, then you don't get to consider the money in the account because I used it for the kids and expenses that were not being paid and if you want a divorce, fine but we don't consider that money when we split everything".
> 
> That's how it usually works.
Click to expand...

If divorce , she will turn on you . Most likely the answer is screw you , it is spent on family .

My ex did it . Even with evidence i paid his debts. 

Mind you . Before i decide to divorce , he said he regret for the rest of his life and will make good te debt to me blah blah blah 

Verdict yet to finalise .


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## longhorns

BradWesley said:


> Let me get this straight. You handle the money in the house, pay the bills and credit cards, but yet over a 2 year period you never checked your retirement account?
> 
> Not really passing the smell test.


I handled all the day to day. My company does not offer 401K so we maxed out 401K and her employee stock purchase plan instead. Yes, I should've been diligent in wanting to see the account over the last couple yrs but I trusted her. Occasionally I'd ask her how the account looks and she'd say it's doing great. I should've been more inquisitive but I trusted her. This is all honest


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## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> I handled all the day to day. My company does not offer 401K so we maxed out 401K and her employee stock purchase plan instead. Yes, I should've been diligent in wanting to see the account over the last couple yrs but I trusted her. Occasionally I'd ask her how the account looks and she'd say it's doing great. I should've been more inquisitive but I trusted her. This is all honest


So this was all money in her name alone? If you filed joint taxes and haven't included those distributions/gains you are still on the hook for those. Talk to a lawyer.


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## SecondTime'Round

longhorns said:


> I handled all the day to day. My company does not offer 401K so we maxed out 401K and her employee stock purchase plan instead. Yes, I should've been diligent in wanting to see the account over the last couple yrs but I trusted her. Occasionally I'd ask her how the account looks and she'd say it's doing great. I should've been more inquisitive but I trusted her. This is all honest


Not quite sure how she managed to do this, but I'd say either a gambling problem (either in person or online) or she's planning to leave you and has the money stashed elsewhere. 

Nobody does this with GOOD intentions. She's not planning a huge surprise for your next birthday.


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## gouge_away

kristin2349 said:


> So this was all money in her name alone? If you filed joint taxes and haven't included those distributions/gains you are still on the hook for those. Talk to a lawyer.


It wouldn't hurt to look into "innocent spouse" tax status. At least that way you can amend your joint filing stays and mitigate any tort tax liabilities for the past two years.


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## longhorns

kristin2349 said:


> BradWesley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me get this straight. You handle the money in the house, pay the bills and credit cards, but yet over a 2 year period you never checked your retirement account?
> 
> Not really passing the smell test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are handling the money you are doing a horrible job. You said she sold stock from you retirement account over 2 years. If you didn't know about it you have a huge tax liability and need to file ammended returns.
> 
> Your wife either has a gambling or drug problem or she is planning on leaving you.
> 
> Run both of your credit reports, place a fraud alert on them so she can't open any new credit, put a freeze on active credit. Put all of your accounts on lockdown so she can't access any more funds. Get a PO box so she can't divert your mail.
Click to expand...

I'm an idiot. She found our tax guy and handled the taxes. I paid the day to day bills. I called this our retirement account because it was all her Employee Stock Purchase plan we chose to max out. She sold those stocks then transferred the funds into her secret bank account. I am still trying to get access to the 401K which was also run through her employer. I guess I am gulible and 100% trusted her. I feel so stupid now. Even worse though is the hurt and betrayal. I am in the middle of trying to figure out the extent. I hope she didn't touch the 401K. All the withdrawals from her private acct were 90% cash in person.


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## phillybeffandswiss

So,it is her money. I make more so, I maxed out my retirement plan as well. I keep my wife in the loop, but it is my account. If I decide to do what your wife did, it is a breach of trust, she has an absolute right to be angry and contemplate divorce. Still, legally, it is my money.

So, I agree, it is shared, but she didn't do anything illegal with her own account.

You were naive, but she is your wife. Stupid would be laying down, not investigating, nor enacting consequences for the deception and allowing it to occur again.


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## longhorns

Keep in mind my company did not offer 401K or even had company stock to purchase. My wife's company is public with a great employee stock purchase plan and 401K. Therefore the decision was made to max out all we could with her company. We could easily since I had nothing from my paycheck going to those things. Therefore, those 2 accounts are in her name because they're set up by her company. I just never pushed on it. I trusted her. I was stupid.


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## BradWesley

longhorns said:


> I'm an idiot. She found our tax guy and handled the taxes. I paid the day to day bills. I called this our retirement account because it was all her Employee Stock Purchase plan we chose to max out. She sold those stocks then transferred the funds into her secret bank account. I am still trying to get access to the 401K which was also run through her employer. I guess I am gulible and 100% trusted her. I feel so stupid now. Even worse though is the hurt and betrayal. I am in the middle of trying to figure out the extent. I hope she didn't touch the 401K. All the withdrawals from her private acct were 90% cash in person.


It appears that it was a 401k thru her employer, including the ESOP. If this is true all the money and stock belongs to your wife


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## gouge_away

Well that's a $45k lesson.
Go get a couple sources of open line credit.
Talk to a lawyer.


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## longhorns

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So,it is her money. I make more so, I maxed out my retirement plan as well. I keep my wife in the loop, but it is my account. If I decide to do what your wife did, it is a breach of trust, she has an absolute right to be angry and contemplate divorce. Still, legally, it is my money.
> 
> So, I agree, it is shared, but she didn't do anything illegal with her own account.
> 
> You were naive, but she is your wife. Stupid would be laying down, not investigating, nor enacting consequences for the deception and allowing it to occur again.


I don't think you're correct in marriage. These are all community assets collected during our marriage. We always referred to it as OUR retirement account. My job just did not offer these great benefits so we were able to max her's out because my check could make up the difference. Make sense? I think k the money is gone it appears. She'd take out almost all of it via in person bank cash withdrawals within days or a couple weeks of it being transferred. It is virtually impossible to trace cash.


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## gouge_away

Subpoena her deposit/withdawls

This is why its important to know who has the burden of proof.

If she is enjoying the assets, and its causing you economic hardship, she might be guilty of dissipation of marital assets. In a equitable property state, that may play down in your favor.


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## kristin2349

gouge_away said:


> Subpoena her deposit/withdawls


They are still married. She didn't do anything legally wrong, morally yes but there is no basis for a subpoena.


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## longhorns

So here is my plan because we have 3 young kids and I came from a broken home. We just scheduled counseling. I want to see where it goes. I have absolutely 0 trust in her. I cut credit cards but our joint checking. That I'm thinking might go away too. She has to report all $ now with receipts of anything over $50 or a $100. I have complete access to her phone. I looked for a burner. Could this find it but that means little. She is remorseful but at the same time doesn't get the impact to me totally or our future. I found out today she has been going to a therapist for 4 sessions. Looks like mainly to get antidepressants and Vyvanse. She said she has NOT told her therapist about all this. Sounds like she is really working the process there leaving this little tip bit out to your therapist. LOL. She was crying more in sadness that she realized I am no longer trusting her with anything. She has lost that right. Maybe through counseling I can forgive and build trust again. Maybe not. These are my conditions. She is already freaking out about them. I don't think I'm being too harsh here. She got an attitude a couple hours ago when I asked for her phone. I was like are you ****ing kidding me?


----------



## longhorns

I'll be honest here too. I've never experienced a deep betrayal in my life like this before. The emotions are very raw. I mean all over the ****ing place. I'm in a daze or cloud. I've said some pretty mean things to her I the last 24 hrs. Things I've never said to her before. It is this hurt and it is juvenile but I want her to feel some of it. It's real unhealthy right now. Kids were sent to friends the 1st night. Didn't need to see what was about to happen. So lost right now.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

longhorns said:


> I don't think you're correct in marriage. These are all community assets collected during our marriage. We always referred to it as OUR retirement account. My job just did not offer these great benefits so we were able to max her's out because my check could make up the difference. Make sense? I think k the money is gone it appears. She'd take out almost all of it via in person bank cash withdrawals within days or a couple weeks of it being transferred. It is virtually impossible to trace cash.





longhorns said:


> Keep in mind my company did not offer 401K or even had company stock to purchase. My wife's company is public with a great employee stock purchase plan and 401K. Therefore the decision was made to max out all we could with her company. We could easily since I had nothing from my paycheck going to those things. Therefore, those 2 accounts are in her name because they're set up by her company. I just never pushed on it. I trusted her. I was stupid.


Both of these posts do not change my opinion or what I said in my previous post. You want to divorce, things will change. You have said no such thing and so, we are talking about what she has done in your marriage. Go talk to a divorce lawyer to find out what community property means inside of a marriage as well as a verbal agreement. Tell the person her name is on both accounts and they are in her name. What she agreed to and what she has done are two differnt things, when her name is on both accounts.


----------



## Chelle D

longhorns said:


> All the withdrawals from her private acct were 90% cash in person.


Sorry to inform you... but classic gamblers motto...

You NEED to confront her ASAP, before the 401 K is gone too.

Also, if she's gambling addiction, she is "justifying" it in her mind, that it is 'Her' money, that it was from her job/her income... so she feels validated that shes' not 'screwing you over'.

It's a hard mirror you've got to get her to face. She won't want to . She wont want to be told that her decisions have made very bad choices for your family. That she actually IS hurting more than just herself. (She'll also justify it in her mind that she's not hurting anyone else with her addiction.)

GOOD LUCK.


----------



## EleGirl

longhorns,

While those accounts might be in her name, they are/were marital assets.

If you were to file for divorce, you could make a claim against her for wasting martial assets. You would be awarded at least half of it. Sometimes the courts will award the innocent spouse more in a way to punish the guilty spouse.

You need to get every bit of paperwork you can on the accounts and where the money went. You might need that info.

I think that you also should see a lawyer to find out how to protect yourself. Her attitude does not sound good and you might end up in a divorce.

There are ways to find out what she's up to. One of them is to put a VAR in her vehicle to see who she's talking to about what. GPS tracker might be a good idea too so to where she's going.


----------



## gouge_away

You don't need to prove wrongdoing to subpoena records.


----------



## EleGirl

Chelle D said:


> Sorry to inform you... but classic gamblers motto...
> 
> You NEED to confront her ASAP, before the 401 K is gone too.
> 
> Also, if she's gambling addiction, she is "justifying" it in her mind, that it is 'Her' money, that it was from her job/her income... so she feels validated that shes' not 'screwing you over'.
> 
> It's a hard mirror you've got to get her to face. She won't want to . She wont want to be told that her decisions have made very bad choices for your family. That she actually IS hurting more than just herself. (She'll also justify it in her mind that she's not hurting anyone else with her addiction.)
> 
> GOOD LUCK.


Gambling is possibility. There are others.

One of my SILs did this. My brother trusted her implicitly and she handled all their money. She took about 100K out of their accounts and move it all to a secret account in her name only. She did this over a few years by taking out cash every time she went to a store. For example she would go to 4 grocery stores every day of the week and take out cash at each store.. $10 in groceries, $60 cash. Some times it was larger amounts. Then, when she was ready, she filed for divorce.


----------



## longhorns

EleGirl said:


> longhorns,
> 
> While those accounts might be in her name, they are/were marital assets.
> 
> If you were to file for divorce, you could make a claim against her for wasting martial assets. You would be awarded at least half of it. Sometimes the courts will award the innocent spouse more in a way to punish the guilty spouse.
> 
> You need to get every bit of paperwork you can on the accounts and where the money went. You might need that info.
> 
> I think that you also should see a lawyer to find out how to protect yourself. Her attitude does not sound good and you might end up in a divorce.
> 
> There are ways to find out what she's up to. One of them is to put a VAR in her vehicle to see who she's talking to about what. GPS tracker might be a good idea too so to where she's going.


Anyone have thoughts on a good VAR? She is in outside sales. Tons of time in car. I am actually the same also on the road a lot.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

longhorns said:


> So here is my plan because we have 3 young kids and I came from a broken home. We just scheduled counseling. I want to see where it goes. I have absolutely 0 trust in her. I cut credit cards but our joint checking. That I'm thinking might go away too. She has to report all $ now with receipts of anything over $50 or a $100. I have complete access to her phone. I looked for a burner. Could this find it but that means little. She is remorseful but at the same time doesn't get the impact to me totally or our future. I found out today she has been going to a therapist for 4 sessions. Looks like mainly to get antidepressants and Vyvanse. She said she has NOT told her therapist about all this. Sounds like she is really working the process there leaving this little tip bit out to your therapist. LOL. She was crying more in sadness that she realized I am no longer trusting her with anything. She has lost that right. Maybe through counseling I can forgive and build trust again. Maybe not. These are my conditions. She is already freaking out about them. I don't think I'm being too harsh here. She got an attitude a couple hours ago when I asked for her phone. I was like are you ****ing kidding me?


Soooo..... Has she told you what she is seeing the therapist for?


You can't forgive what you do not know.


----------



## longhorns

If it is a gambling addiction it is the most secret one ever. Once every few yrs we gamble. She plays slots for a few hours and usually is done.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Might I recommend a polygraph that may jog her memory....and perhaps uncover more truths.


----------



## longhorns

phillybeffandswiss said:


> longhorns said:
> 
> 
> 
> So here is my plan because we have 3 young kids and I came from a broken home. We just scheduled counseling. I want to see where it goes. I have absolutely 0 trust in her. I cut credit cards but our joint checking. That I'm thinking might go away too. She has to report all $ now with receipts of anything over $50 or a $100. I have complete access to her phone. I looked for a burner. Could this find it but that means little. She is remorseful but at the same time doesn't get the impact to me totally or our future. I found out today she has been going to a therapist for 4 sessions. Looks like mainly to get antidepressants and Vyvanse. She said she has NOT told her therapist about all this. Sounds like she is really working the process there leaving this little tip bit out to your therapist. LOL. She was crying more in sadness that she realized I am no longer trusting her with anything. She has lost that right. Maybe through counseling I can forgive and build trust again. Maybe not. These are my conditions. She is already freaking out about them. I don't think I'm being too harsh here. She got an attitude a couple hours ago when I asked for her phone. I was like are you ****ing kidding me?
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo..... Has she told you what she is seeing the therapist for?
> 
> 
> You can't forgive what you do not know.
Click to expand...

Good question. I kinda asked but it was part of an argument so I wasn't thinking clearly. She said she went this morning because she thought she was having a nervous breakdown. She said she is on antidepressants and Vyvanse. I asked to see the message she is on. One is for bipolar, one is anxiety and I enjoy is for ADHD. I ha e some knowledge in this area. The doses she is at a maxed or close to it. She is highly medicated. She hid this all from me. It all came out today because I made her to prove to me this isn't going to prescription drugs. We went down to Walgreens and got a 12 month RX summary. All sorts of antidepressants and Vyvanse. A little Xanax and a lot of ambien. I knew about the ambien.


----------



## gouge_away

Search the house for oxy

And find out who her therapist is!


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## EleGirl

longhorns said:


> Anyone have thoughts on a good VAR? She is in outside sales. Tons of time in car. I am actually the same also on the road a lot.


This might help...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## longhorns

My prediction. She won't be able to live with my new rules of financing for long. She will think it is too overbearing after a short period and it will lead to huge fights even though she agreed to all of it. I told her I hope to develop trust back over time but right now there is none and I need you to do this. I don't want to have to keep up with all this ****. I am really ****ing busy in life. I'd rather not at all. I think she thinks I'm getting off on it. Far from it. I can already after just a couple days start to feel the resentment from her coming out slightly. It won't end well if she can't stick on the plan for any period of time.


----------



## longhorns

gouge_away said:


> Search the house for oxy
> 
> And find out who her therapist is!


I found out who her therapist is. What does it matter? She I try to meet with her? Keep in mind this is all new to me. Not sure what to do here.


----------



## JohnA

Is she perscibing the medications? You should try io get your wife to agree tp ONE joint secession. Why, she hid her condition for over a year, you are het spouse, duh. How can you help if you are clueless? Are you the problem? Why can't she learn on you? She is on a heavy ****tail of drugs, what are the possible side effects individually and jointly?

For the win-win Say to her;

Right this second (and only this second) screw the money, you want het whole, and what can you do? You can't crowd her, nut one joint session? 

Then buy the damn VAR,


----------



## EleGirl

Are the two of you going to marriage counseling? I think that might help as I'm sure that the marriage counselor will see your side of this.

I would also ask to have at least one or two sessions with her counselor and your wife there.


----------



## gouge_away

longhorns said:


> I found out who her therapist is. What does it matter? She I try to meet with her? Keep in mind this is all new to me. Not sure what to do here.


Her 'therapist,' might not be helping her, and something seems sketchy, 94k doesn't just vanish without a trace. I wouldn't suggest confronting her therapist, but I would suggest confronting your wife, maybe finding a new therapist that isn't dealing drugs.


----------



## EleGirl

gouge_away said:


> Her 'therapist,' might not be helping her, and something seems sketchy, 94k doesn't just vanish without a trace. I wouldn't suggest confronting her therapist, but I would suggest confronting your wife, maybe finding a new therapist that isn't dealing drugs.


What makes you think that her counselor is dealing drugs?


----------



## EleGirl

longhorns said:


> I found out who her therapist is. What does it matter? She I try to meet with her? Keep in mind this is all new to me. Not sure what to do here.


Is it possible that your wife is bi-polar? I ask because sometimes bi-polar people become manic for a long period of time and do things that seem very out of character. They often do things that are outrageous.. like blow $45K.


----------



## gouge_away

EleGirl said:


> What makes you think that her counselor is dealing drugs?


Her pillbox. High dosage,...


----------



## Satya

longhorns said:


> I'll be honest here too. I've never experienced a deep betrayal in my life like this before. The emotions are very raw. I mean all over the ****ing place. I'm in a daze or cloud. I've said some pretty mean things to her I the last 24 hrs. Things I've never said to her before. It is this hurt and it is juvenile but I want her to feel some of it.


It's OK to be pissed. It's because you feel like a CHUMP. She is showing you who she really is and it clashes so strongly with what you thought you knew. Your brain has kicked her off of the pedestal and now you see clearly through her hidden actions what she is capable of. 

So be mad, it's fine. But come to a point where you agree to yourself that you will channel that energy into something positive for you, like learning to trust again but always verify. Don't let the anger lead to bitterness. That's way too much energy devoted to her, even if negative.


----------



## dental

longhorns said:


> Good question. I kinda asked but it was part of an argument so I wasn't thinking clearly. She said she went this morning because she thought she was having a nervous breakdown. She said she is on antidepressants and Vyvanse. I asked to see the message she is on. One is for bipolar, one is anxiety and I enjoy is for ADHD. I ha e some knowledge in this area. The doses she is at a maxed or close to it. She is highly medicated. She hid this all from me. It all came out today because I made her to prove to me this isn't going to prescription drugs. We went down to Walgreens and got a 12 month RX summary. All sorts of antidepressants and Vyvanse. A little Xanax and a lot of ambien. I knew about the ambien.


Holy s**t! I'm sorry for this perhaps blunt observation, but this doesn't look like much of a marriage. Soon many things going on, so many secrets, so many hidden activities, so many lies, plausibly for a long time already, and you never noticed anything? Never was your gut feeling triggered? You never had a bright moment like hé, something smells not right here? This is not good man.


----------



## tripad

longhorns said:


> My prediction. She won't be able to live with my new rules of financing for long. She will think it is too overbearing after a short period and it will lead to huge fights even though she agreed to all of it. I told her I hope to develop trust back over time but right now there is none and I need you to do this. I don't want to have to keep up with all this ****. I am really ****ing busy in life. I'd rather not at all. I think she thinks I'm getting off on it. Far from it. I can already after just a couple days start to feel the resentment from her coming out slightly. It won't end well if she can't stick on the plan for any period of time.


Same with my ex.

Resentment builds . N plans were made tp trap me while planning his exit . All these while faking reconciliation . 

Secret debts went underground . 

Be careful


----------



## longhorns

I stayed up late last night digging round through our financial records. I wondered to myself if she did not sell all our Stock over the last 2 years what would it be worth today. I looked up the closing price today. Found the exact number F stock she sold over the 2 yrs. I almost passed out. If that stock was still in our account today it would've been worth $165,000. So the real cost today is not $94K it is $165K. What would it be worth 10 yrs from now? $400K? The impact that $ could've had on our retirement or putting 3 kids through college cannot be understated. This mother of my kids who I thought is a really good mother just really screwed our kids future and made their lives more difficult . It's maddening.


----------



## longhorns

This is going to sound very stupid. I was so in love with her before all this and my brain had never thought of a future without her. I want to forgive her so much and not just pack and leave. I hope the counseling will help both of us and I think she loves me. World is spinning now because what I thought was one reality really wasn't reality. It's all so hard to come to terms with at this moment. 

I asked her why she kept it hidden so long. She said she didn't want to fight about it. She did not want to fight about money. That might be her excuse in her head. Would I've been alright with us selling $94K in Stock over 2 yrs? Absolutely not. It's a very juvenile mentality. Well, since I know I can't get what I want and I do not want to fight about it I'll just steal it and cover it up. Screw the long term consequences both financial and to our relationship. I'll just deal with that when it happens but I'm going to live in the moment and get what I want. 

That is a deep seeded issue she has that I as her husband can't fix. That is going to take yrs of intense therapy. If possible at all.


----------



## gouge_away

It wouldn't hurt to invest in a financial advisor for your future.
Neither you or your wife have a handle on finances. Just the piece of mind, knowing somebody is looking out for your family, making every "educated," decision for you with confidence, seems priceless at this point.

Plus you don't have to watch your wife like a hawk!


----------



## SecondTime'Round

You said your wife has prescriptions for many things, including bi-polar.

IS she bi-polar??

DOES she have ADHD? 

Who exactly is prescribing these medications?

You sound a bit manic yourself, using completely wrong words in your sentences, not just misspellings. Take deep breaths. Calm down. This is a huge betrayal and it's very confusing at the moment, but you don't have to come to a complete understanding or decision this weekend. 

If it's a gambling problem, I hope she doesn't owe anybody money that will drag you into it.

If she was smart enough to know how to stash that money away where you can't see it, I guess maybe be prepared for her to hightail it out of there soon. 

If it's a drug problem, I think you'll find out soon enough when she can't get her fix now that you have control.


----------



## longhorns

SecondTime'Round said:


> You said your wife has prescriptions for many things, including bi-polar.
> 
> IS she bi-polar??
> 
> DOES she have ADHD?
> 
> Who exactly is prescribing these medications?
> 
> You sound a bit manic yourself, using completely wrong words in your sentences, not just misspellings. Take deep breaths. Calm down. This is a huge betrayal and it's very confusing at the moment, but you don't have to come to a complete understanding or decision this weekend.
> 
> If it's a gambling problem, I hope she doesn't owe anybody money that will drag you into it.
> 
> If she was smart enough to know how to stash that money away where you can't see it, I guess maybe be prepared for her to hightail it out of there soon.
> 
> If it's a drug problem, I think you'll find out soon enough when she can't get her fix now that you have control.


I might made typos and grammatical errors because I am doing this all from my phone. Am I manic and emotional right now? Yep. I would think that is normal as I just uncovered the biggest betrayal of my life. It's life altering to me at this moment. I go from wanting to believe her to wanting to kick her ass out of the house. I know over time my clarity of this will all come to focus. Right now I think what I need to do is lock down the finances so I feel safe there. Monitor and verify her activities and wait for our 1st therapy session in 2 weeks. Lots of deep breaths too. 

I asked her yesterday what her therapist says to her. She just said she is having a tough time. That doesn't sound like she is being straight with me at all. I'd assume she's embarrassed to tell me she bipolar or whatever she has been ddiagnosed with by this psychiatrist. Poor psychiatrist doesn't have a real chance to help her if she isn't going to be honest with her and tell her about all this. I assume she does have that because her meds are indicated for bipolar depression, anxiety and ADHD. I know that Vyvanse she is on is the designer working mom pill. I've heard our friends and coworkers talk about it. Supposed to give you energy and make you super focused. My opinion is she does not have ADHD. I've known her for 15 yrs. Could she be bipolar? I think so. ADHD I do not think so because she has been great multitasker and has always stayed focused on things. These are all just theories I have now but I think she said the things she needed to say to get the script for Vyvanse. 

Keep in mind, we both work and have 3 kids. So the time iI've been able to get with her is not what I want to ask all these questions. We are going on a trip together we planned a long time ago this weekend. 4 HR drive. I wanted to cancel to be honest because it sounds horrible now. I didn't because I'll have her all weekend to have us work through these questions I have.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

longhorns said:


> I might made typos and grammatical errors because I am doing this all from my phone. Am I manic and emotional right now? Yep. I would think that is normal as I just uncovered the biggest betrayal of my life. It's life altering to me at this moment. I go from wanting to believe her to wanting to kick her ass out of the house. I know over time my clarity of this will all come to focus. Right now I think what I need to do is lock down the finances so I feel safe there. Monitor and verify her activities and wait for our 1st therapy session in 2 weeks. Lots of deep breaths too.
> 
> I asked her yesterday what her therapist says to her. She just said she is having a tough time. That doesn't sound like she is being straight with me at all. I'd assume she's embarrassed to tell me she bipolar or whatever she has been ddiagnosed with by this psychiatrist. Poor psychiatrist doesn't have a real chance to help her if she isn't going to be honest with her and tell her about all this.
> 
> Keep in mind, we both work and have 3 kids. So the time iI've been able to get with her is not what I want to ask all these questions. We are going on a trip together we planned a long time ago this weekend. 4 HR drive. I wanted to cancel to be honest because it sounds horrible now. I didn't because I'll have her all weekend to have us work through these questions I have.


Many of us who've been betrayed in a huge way understand the manic and emotional feelings, trust me . Including me, especially what you said about saying mean things to her out of your hurt. I just did it over the weekend in a pretty bad way and we're not even living in the same house anymore! 

Your wife seems to be keeping quite a bit from you. Have you SEEN these medications she has, or did you only see them on the Walgreens history of the last 12 months? How long has she been getting a prescription for the bi-polar meds? Does she take them? How about ADHD meds? Is her therapist a dr. who is able to write prescriptions?

I hope you get some answers this weekend, because it sounds like there is a LOT she is not telling you.


----------



## Satya

longhorns said:


> I might made typos and grammatical errors because I am doing this all from my phone. Am I manic and emotional right now? Yep. I would think that is normal as I just uncovered the biggest betrayal of my life. It's life altering to me at this moment. I go from wanting to believe her to wanting to kick her ass out of the house. I know over time my clarity of this will all come to focus. Right now I think what I need to do is lock down the finances so I feel safe there. Monitor and verify her activities and wait for our 1st therapy session in 2 weeks. Lots of deep breaths too.
> 
> I asked her yesterday what her therapist says to her. She just said she is having a tough time. That doesn't sound like she is being straight with me at all. I'd assume she's embarrassed to tell me she bipolar or whatever she has been ddiagnosed with by this psychiatrist. Poor psychiatrist doesn't have a real chance to help her if she isn't going to be honest with her and tell her about all this.
> 
> Keep in mind, we both work and have 3 kids. So the time iI've been able to get with her is not what I want to ask all these questions. We are going on a trip together we planned a long time ago this weekend. 4 HR drive. I wanted to cancel to be honest because it sounds horrible now. I didn't because I'll have her all weekend to have us work through these questions I have.


Don't talk about it in a car where you're both trapped and in motion. It could escalate easily. 

Stay home, send kids away, and you do 5% of the talking, 95% of the listening. 

THEN chew on what she said until your mind is made up and follow through. 

You don't have the full story and you MUST have it before another day goes by. 

Any less from her and you tell her you're DONE. Then you go make plans. 

There should be no secrets in a marriage and what she did was utterly disrespectful to you and the kids. 

Personally I would be done. Everyone has a different take when kids and years of personal investment are involved, but one of my personal deal breakers is being being lied to in grievous ways, and what happened to you is a perfect example.


----------



## chillymorn

JMHO

you need to be proactive in figuring out what the heck happened.

1) stop thinking this is salvageable 
2) as others have suggested hire a forensic cpa and find out how she did this
did she forge your name
is she hiding the money somewhere
is any of it recoverable
can you press charges
are you liable for and tax consequences


I know your head is spinning and your in denial/shock....and a whole slue of emotional feeling trying to do whats best for your family. go see a counselor. start getting your head on straight.

something that helps me when a tough situation happens is to think what you would would advise a close friend or your children to do if they were in this situation.

be an example of how you would would want them to proceed. 


t5his is sever stuff and pushing is under the carpet will only make it worse. right now she is hiding and destroying evidence as you are trying to salvage something that in my opinion is impossible.time to get you a$$ in self preservation mode. 

you have to be strong. pull up your boot straps this is going to be the make or break time period of your life.

BUT you can do it people survive all kinds of horrible things in there life. prisoners of war, cancer survivors , natural disaster survivors, military vets and now you!

so are you going to crumble or rise to the occasion?

ps take care of your health start exercising and eating right stay away from alcohol. 


its a lot but you can do it!!!!!!!!!!!

good luck if you succeed you will be stronger and will thrive through the rest of your life!


----------



## SARAHMCD

longhorns said:


> Good question. I kinda asked but it was part of an argument so I wasn't thinking clearly. She said she went this morning because she thought she was having a nervous breakdown. She said she is on antidepressants and Vyvanse. I asked to see the message she is on. One is for bipolar, one is anxiety and I enjoy is for ADHD. I ha e some knowledge in this area. The doses she is at a maxed or close to it. She is highly medicated. She hid this all from me. It all came out today because I made her to prove to me this isn't going to prescription drugs. We went down to Walgreens and got a 12 month RX summary. All sorts of antidepressants and Vyvanse. A little Xanax and a lot of ambien. I knew about the ambien.


Since she hasn't yet explained where all the money went and hearing her history of medications and obvious mental health issues, I would ask her if she's buying any other non-prescribed pills (pain killers for example) over the internet or elsewhere. 

My ex did this over the course of several years. He spent thousands of dollars a month on this habit - they do not come cheap. He was attempting to get his anxiety and depression issues under control by zoning out on Oxy (among other things).


----------



## F-102

You confronted her, i.e.: you showed your hand. Now she knows that you know, so she most likely will be moving the money elsewhere and covering her tracks.... if she isn't already preparing to leave in a hurry.

But even if she isn't doing damage control and making fast plans to get outta Dodge with the loot, you have one ugly fact to live with now: the marriage that you THOUGHT you had is now gone. You will never really look at her the same way again, and she will never look at you the same way again. Just keep in mind that if you do try to save this marriage, it will be totally different than the one that you signed up for.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> Good question. I kinda asked but it was part of an argument so I wasn't thinking clearly. She said she went this morning because she thought she was having a nervous breakdown. She said she is on antidepressants and Vyvanse. I asked to see the message she is on. One is for bipolar, one is anxiety and I enjoy is for ADHD. I ha e some knowledge in this area. The doses she is at a maxed or close to it. She is highly medicated. She hid this all from me. It all came out today because I made her to prove to me this isn't going to prescription drugs. We went down to Walgreens and got a 12 month RX summary. All sorts of antidepressants and Vyvanse. A little Xanax and a lot of ambien. I knew about the ambien.



So she is taking meds for ADHD and in your opinion doesn't have it? Bascially that is using uppers for someone who doesn't need it. Then she takes Xanax and LOTS of Ambien (both downers) What is your definitioin of LOTS of Ambien? Is it more than one a night.

The combination of pills she is taking is horrible, she is taking uppers she doesn't need and addictive downers Xanax and Ambien (ambien alone has some really bad behavioral side effects just google them). Is she getting all these from one Dr.?

She still has access to her 401K and now that you have put your foot down and told her you are going to track all of her spending she might freak and drain that account. 

Bottom line she knows exactly why she started taking that money and where it was spent. If you were the one paying the bills she wouldn't have had the pressure of the family budget so she just wanted to spend without being questioned. I wouldn't let her get away with telling you she doesn't know. She knows why she went to her secret bank account and got cash instead of writing a check. Or coming to you and telling you that there was some shortfall in money and what she was going to do. If the person who handles the money (you) isn't aware of a budget problem, there shouldn't be one. 

Still back to drugs or gambling (you can gamble online) do you have a keylogger on her computer?


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## gouge_away

kristin2349 said:


> So she is taking meds for ADHD and in your opinion doesn't have it? Bascially that is using uppers for someone who doesn't need it. Then she takes Xanax and LOTS of Ambien (both downers) What is your definitioin of LOTS of Ambien? Is it more than one a night.
> 
> The combination of pills she is taking is horrible, she is taking uppers she doesn't need and addictive downers Xanax and Ambien (ambien alone has some really bad behavioral side effects just google them). Is she getting all these from one Dr.?
> 
> She still has access to her 401K and now that you have put your foot down and told her you are going to track all of her spending she might freak and drain that account.
> 
> Bottom line she knows exactly why she started taking that money and where it was spent. If you were the one paying the bills she wouldn't have had the pressure of the family budget so she just wanted to spend without being questioned. I wouldn't let her get away with telling you she doesn't know. She knows why she went to her secret bank account and got cash instead of writing a check.
> 
> Still back to drugs or gambling (you can gamble online) do you have a keylogger on her computer?


This is tragic, many times drug users will mix benzos and narcotics, because the benzos help them through the nausea of being a narcotic abuser.

Its called Poly Drug Use
This accounts for almost 85% of Emergency Room visits by recreational drug users, and the leading cause of prescription drug abuse overdoses.

Michael Jackson's CDI comes to mind. Find her a new psychotherapist.


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## weightlifter

Longhorns. Couple things.
Investigate the cost of those drugs. Is the street value 94K? DO NOT BE surprised to find another element to this such as gambling or an affair or planned D. My gut says gambling is more likely but who knows. A month ago you were oblivious.

DO NOT tell her of any of the investigations you are doing. Normally I run the affair end of investigating but feel free to read the top link in my signature for tips. DO NOT EVER tell her about the 007 stuff in that post. NEVER EVER give up your aces.

Ele. In the divorce, did the SIL get punished for taking the money and putting it in her own acct. AFAIK. Marital assets are marital assets.


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## Chris Taylor

I'm sure every 401(k) is different but a couple of observations since I just pulled money out of a 401(k).

1 - My wife also had to sign the withdrawl form. I believe this is because she was a beneficiary of the plan. You may want to check to see if you are a beneficiary of the plan and whether your signature was required.

2 - My wife's signature needed to be notarized.

If these were requirements of her plan and weren't followed I would think you have a good case against the 401(k) administrator or a case of fraud against your wife.


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## kristin2349

Chris Taylor said:


> I'm sure every 401(k) is different but a couple of observations since I just pulled money out of a 401(k).
> 
> 1 - My wife also had to sign the withdrawl form. I believe this is because she was a beneficiary of the plan. You may want to check to see if you are a beneficiary of the plan and whether your signature was required.
> 
> 2 - My wife's signature needed to be notarized.
> 
> If these were requirements of her plan and weren't followed I would think you have a good case against the 401(k) administrator or a case of fraud against your wife.



This is not only because of the beneficiary designation it is also because the tax impact on married people affects both of them, so it is a CYA move. Like you said, I'm not sure that every plan is administered this way.

There are so many issues here he should really see a lawyer and figure out how to put her on lockdown. He knows of 94K over 2 years plus he probably isn't counting household money she blew day to day. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Her Rx habit screams woman on the verge of a major crash.


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## TRy

longhorns said:


> She can't explain what she did with the money. Just saying she used it on the kids and expenses. It is way too much money and I do the bills and pay the credit cards. Those normal expenses I've seen over years did not go down. I can't fathom where so much $ went over 2 yrs.


 That much money in after tax dollars is far too much to dismiss away the way she is trying to. Her answers do not pass the smell test. They are not credible. There are many ways for her to take the money that she stole and hide it such that you would not be able to trace it. For instance, bitcoins would be untraceable by you. She secretly drained your account in 2 years so that she could have it for all herself. She may be preparing to leave you. She may have an affair partner. Before the trail goes cold, you need to trace the funds. Get a copy of all of the statements. Find out were each transaction went. Look for patterns. Do this now while you still can. If she does not fully cooperate, then you have your answer, and you need to file for divorce so that your attorney can force the banks to cooperate. Time is not on your side. Now that she knows that you know, she can move the money again to hide it better.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Chris Taylor said:


> I'm sure every 401(k) is different but a couple of observations since I just pulled money out of a 401(k).
> 
> 1 - My wife also had to sign the withdrawl form. I believe this is because she was a beneficiary of the plan. You may want to check to see if you are a beneficiary of the plan and whether your signature was required.
> 
> 2 - My wife's signature needed to be notarized.
> 
> If these were requirements of her plan and weren't followed I would think you have a good case against the 401(k) administrator or a case of fraud against your wife.


Mine is completely different. I can move money, get a loan against the 401K and a myriad of other things without my wife's approval. Her plan is the same as well. He needs to look at the paperwork to see, but if it is like yours she would be in trouble. If she forged anything man oh man.


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## kristin2349

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Mine is completely different. I can move money, get a loan against the 401K and a myriad of other things without my wife's approval. Her plan is the same as well. He needs to look at the paperwork to see, but if it is like yours she would be in trouble. If she forged anything man oh man.


She hasn't touched the 401K yet from what the OP knows. She sold off her ESOP (employee stock ownership plan) Acct. That was in her name alone and would be considered a community asset in the case of a divorce but OP isn't talking about that yet...She started this two years ago, time is ticking the longer he lets this slide the less he can do about it. My bet is it is long gone.


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## gouge_away

In Wisconsin you can go back 12 months from the date you file divorce. Anything that happened before that 1 year, is treated as if you were in agreement (unless you had a postnuptial agreement concerning that specific asset)


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## EleGirl

weightlifter said:


> Ele. In the divorce, did the SIL get punished for taking the money and putting it in her own acct. AFAIK. Marital assets are marital assets.


Yes, my SIL was punished in that my brother got more in the found assets than she did. She also was entitled to life-long alimony and got about half of what she would otherwise for only 8 years. He was also able to keep his entire 401K. She got nothing from that. 

I'm not sure that he recouped every dollar because we could not find every dollar. There is a trail that drops off a cliff for some of the money. I think that her father was helping her hide assets. But could not prove it.

When I divorced my son's father, I found out that he was hiding money in his mother's name as well as paying the mortgages and bill for his mother and father (they were divorced). My ex was on the deeds for both of those homes and was hiding that from me. So he was building assets. I was the only one working so it was my money he that he was doing this with. 

I was able to prove a lot of this.. when I showed up in court with a pile of cancelled checks showing the movement of money (it was fate that my ex accidently put his canceled checks in a box of my things when I was moving out. He was pissed and throwing things in boxes and accidently threw in paperwork he'd been hiding from me.  )

I got the house to compensate me for what he did. I did not get back every penny, but I got back quite a bit as the house had a LOT of equity.

I have worked on and know of other divorces where this has come into play and where one or the other was able to get a larger share of existing assets because the other squandered or hid a lot.


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## EleGirl

Chris Taylor said:


> I'm sure every 401(k) is different but a couple of observations since I just pulled money out of a 401(k).
> 
> 1 - My wife also had to sign the withdrawl form. I believe this is because she was a beneficiary of the plan. You may want to check to see if you are a beneficiary of the plan and whether your signature was required.
> 
> 2 - My wife's signature needed to be notarized.
> 
> If these were requirements of her plan and weren't followed I would think you have a good case against the 401(k) administrator or a case of fraud against your wife.


My 401K does not require spousal signature or agreement for withdrawal. This even if the spouse is a beneficiary. It just depends on how the company set up the 401K.


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## EleGirl

longhorns,

I get that your wife did something with money behind your back and now she will not come clean about it. With the mix of drugs she is taking, she might not remember. 

Whether your wife needs those drugs is unclear. It might just be that she's going to a therapist who is just throwing drugs at her.. one on top of the other... to the point that whatever might be an underlying problem is not now the problem she (and you) are dealing with. Now the problem is the drug mix. And taking her off the drugs would be problematic.

Have you even considered that your wife is in a crisis and needs help? I think you need to consider that. Sure $94K is a lot of money. But her health mental health is also very important.

Have you talked to her family (assuming they are in her life)? Have you considered getting their help in helping her? 

You need to see her therapist, or whoever is giving her these drugs. A second opinion would be a good idea.


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## survivorwife

TRy said:


> That much money in after tax dollars is far too much to dismiss away the way she is trying to. Her answers do not pass the smell test. They are not credible. There are many ways for her to take the money that she stole and hide it such that you would not be able to trace it. For instance, bitcoins would be untraceable by you. She secretly drained your account in 2 years so that she could have it for all herself. She may be preparing to leave you. She may have an affair partner. Before the trail goes cold, you need to trace the funds. Get a copy of all of the statements. Find out were each transaction went. Look for patterns. Do this now while you still can. If she does not fully cooperate, then you have your answer, and you need to file for divorce so that your attorney can force the banks to cooperate. Time is not on your side. Now that she knows that you know, she can move the money again to hide it better.


^^^^This^^^^

All that dancing around about counseling, depression, prescription medications etc is all about avoiding the BIG question - Where did all that money go? It does not appear (unless I missed it) that she ever gave a valid accounting of her expenditures AND she seems unwilling to do so. She is still hiding that information from the OP.

And yes, we could all "speculate" to the possibilities, but until that questioned is answered honestly, there will always be distrust in this marriage. Her unwillingness to open up about it suggests that she is guarding some very expensive secret from her H (and her children). All the counseling in the world might just be a cover to avoid accountability.

Having said that, yes, the OP should get the advise of an attorney - Fast. AND have the attorney recommend a good forensic accountant. If she is unwilling to tell the simple truth for whatever reason, the OP has a right to the answers.


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## kag123

Wtf. Where does SHE say the money went?


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## phillybeffandswiss

kristin2349 said:


> She hasn't touched the 401K yet from what the OP knows. She sold off her ESOP (employee stock ownership plan) Acct. That was in her name alone and would be considered a community asset in the case of a divorce but OP isn't talking about that yet...She started this two years ago, time is ticking the longer he lets this slide the less he can do about it. My bet is it is long gone.


I have no clue what you are addressing in my post.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Sorry, I partially disagree with Ele, she remembers where that money went. She may not realize the amount, with all of those drugs, but she knows exactly what happened and why she was dipping into the funds.


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## kristin2349

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I have no clue what you are addressing in my post.



Sorry I meant to do a multi quote your post was the only one that quoted. OP hasn't answered many of the questions asked and many posters are focusing on her 401K but that hasn't been touched as far as he knows, it was only her employee stock plan that he knows of...It doesn't matter, lol.


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## ThePheonix

Unless she's doing hard drugs, chances are the money was not spent but is maintained in her "traveling" accounts. When the amount is sufficient, she'll cash in the accounts and cash out old Longhorns. 

If she withdrew the money, the administrator withheld 20% for taxes and probably a 10% penalty tax for early withdrawal. At any rate, Longhorns and his old lady will soon receive a letter from IRS explaining the additional taxes they owe.
Is she is tax savy, she transferred it to her private retirement account away from Longhorns grasp. She may be thinking about the kids education as, "Let the little shyts pay their own freight. We feed and clothed them for 18-20 years. Why should my golden years suffer so they can have high paying careers"


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## Thor

You can run a credit report on any of the 3 credit agencies 2x per year by law for free. You will need a social security number, name, and I think birth date. They'll ask a verification question or two, such as how much was the initial mortgage you took out in 2010, or what kind of a car did you get a loan on in 2013. Multiple choice, and if you can't remember the answer they'll ask another question or two.

The report will show all bank and credit union accounts. Savings, checking, credit card, loans, etc. It will show all credit accounts. I can't remember if it shows brokerage or retirement accounts but I think not.

But it will show you all accounts at bank or credit union type places. You may discover other accounts you don't know about.

I suspect she's funneled the money off into other less traceable places. Maybe physical gold and silver. Maybe cash. So I'd be looking for those. She may have a safe deposit box somewhere.

Search the house super thoroughly. Look for a safe box key. Look for a stash of gold/silver/cash. Look in every shoe, suitcase, coat pocket, etc. Some people have a secure office, such as self employed, doc, lawyer, etc. If she has that kind of situation she may be hiding it there but it will be difficult to find.

If she does have some kind of addiction or gambling thing going on, you need to know about it. For me this is a divorce level issue. The taking of the money is also divorce level, but her not revealing where it went is also divorce level. I'd insist on a verifiable answer where it went. If she maintains she just spent it on doo dads and doesn't really remember, I'd insist on a polygraph to prove it was just pissed away on nonsense spending.


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## survivorwife

Thor said:


> I suspect she's funneled the money off into other less traceable places. Maybe physical gold and silver. Maybe cash. So I'd be looking for those. She may have a safe deposit box somewhere.
> 
> Search the house super thoroughly. Look for a safe box key. Look for a stash of gold/silver/cash. Look in every shoe, suitcase, coat pocket, etc. Some people have a secure office, such as self employed, doc, lawyer, etc. If she has that kind of situation she may be hiding it there but it will be difficult to find.


My divorce attorney called it "portable wealth" as in jewelry, coins of gold and/or silver or anything small and valuable that can be purchased with cash and stored rather discretely. If the OP is paying attention to her "stuff", he will note whether she made purchases of small but valuable items in which she can pack up unnoticed in the event of a separation and/or divorce.


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## ThePheonix

My guess is all the money was from her salary and went into her retirement account, thus ain't a hell of a lot Longhorns can do to get his cut of it back. Who knows, maybe she's being blackmailed. 
Next time Longhorn, set up your own retirement account. You just can't trust spouses, kids, parents, siblings, anybody you can treat as a dependent for tax purposes and anybody you can't, with your retirement. Its a ticket to the poorhouse my man.


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## Jasel

You could try getting her permission to speak with her therapist about what they've discussed in their sessions. I also agree with whoever suggested you hire someone to go through your finances. I wouldn't be surprised if there's more going on you're completely unaware of.


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## longhorns

I'm back. More details tomorrow. Didn't lie about any of this. Still right in the middle of it. To summarize with details later because I'm tired. She finds fault then blames it on me for being too critical of her spending. It is insane. Counseling in 1 week. She keeps telling me she won't be the only 1 that will look bad. Like a threat. There is so much that has happened in the last week. I just wanna keep it together for the kids. I came away from a divorce home. Don't want it to happen to my 4,7, 10 yr Olds. There is sooooo much more though. Can women have a mid life crisis?


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## EleGirl

Yes women can have a mid life crisis. But I would not rush to pin this on a mid life crisis.


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## survivorwife

longhorns said:


> I'm back. More details tomorrow. Didn't lie about any of this. Still right in the middle of it. To summarize with details later because I'm tired. She finds fault *then blames it on me for being too critical of her spending. * It is insane. Counseling in 1 week. She keeps telling me *she won't be the only 1 that will look bad.* Like a threat. There is so much that has happened in the last week. I just wanna keep it together for the kids. I came away from a divorce home. Don't want it to happen to my 4,7, 10 yr Olds. There is sooooo much more though. Can women have a mid life crisis?


Sounds like a prelude to "blame shifting" in order to deflect from where the money went. Sounds like she has already "planned her script" as to what to tell a counselor in order to make herself a "victim". Counseling may be a waste of time if that is her position.

As to a mid-life crisis - another excuse and/or blame shifting to a medical/emotional problem and not to the fact of where the money went, and why.

I understand you wanting to keep it together for the kids, but does she? If so, she should have come clean to you a while ago. You may have heard this before on TAM - but sometimes you have to break a marriage (file for Divorce) to save it. It's the most direct way to get the answers you need.


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## turnera

So I might have missed it, but did you match every withdrawal from the account to a cash withdrawal? Are you positive it wasn't put in some other account?


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## Mr The Other

Blaming preparing a nest egg for a new life with another man is a real possibility. 

I have had a friend have a similar experience. His wife suddenly went spending crazy and it was all his fault. They divorced (no kids) and she got half the stuff. Within a few months, she called asking for money as she had not realised the checks would not cash if there was not that much money in the account (she was a math professor).

Sometimes the crazy just hits. Orthodox relationship advice will say its all your fault, but sometimes people are just a bit bonkers.


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## phillybeffandswiss

longhorns said:


> I'm back. More details tomorrow. Didn't lie about any of this. Still right in the middle of it. To summarize with details later because I'm tired. She finds fault then blames it on me for being too critical of her spending. It is insane. Counseling in 1 week. She keeps telling me she won't be the only 1 that will look bad. Like a threat. There is so much that has happened in the last week. I just wanna keep it together for the kids. I came away from a divorce home. Don't want it to happen to my 4,7, 10 yr Olds. There is sooooo much more though. Can women have a mid life crisis?


Yes, anyone can. Still, people tend to flaunt, not hide, their crisis.
Be prepared, she is going to vent and make you look bad.


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## synthetic

longhorns said:


> I'm back. More details tomorrow. Didn't lie about any of this. Still right in the middle of it. To summarize with details later because I'm tired. She finds fault then blames it on me for being too critical of her spending. It is insane. Counseling in 1 week. She keeps telling me she won't be the only 1 that will look bad. Like a threat. There is so much that has happened in the last week. I just wanna keep it together for the kids. I came away from a divorce home. Don't want it to happen to my 4,7, 10 yr Olds. *There is sooooo much more though.* Can women have a mid life crisis?


Let me guess: _
- "She loves you but she's not in love with you"?
- _Has started working out
- Suddenly wears a lot of sexy tight stuff
- Wants a boob-job or some sort of a cosmetic operation
- Has become a shopoholic
- Has her phone in her hands the entire time and doesn't let go of it
- Doesn't pay much attention to you or the kids

You're not gonna 'nice' your way out of this. It's pretty much over already.


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## TAMAT

Longhorns,

My quick thoughs on this are

1) she has a boyfriend who is milking her for money perhaps a younger guy

2)is she from another country she may be sending it back to her family

Tamat


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## longhorns

She says she wants to save it. Unless she is really good with a burner phone I do think think she has a boyfriend. I have dug around pretty good on that and found no evidence. Doesnt mean there isn't one. Gut says no. She isn't foreign. Most of the withdrawals were straight cash in person at the bank. A few were (10% of it) money orders and cashier checks. Those few checks I could find the payee it was to the carpet cleaning company or landscaping company. So at least some of her story was correct. Regardless the vast majority of the $94K was all cash and untraceable. 

Side note, it almost all ended yesterday. I found a receipt from last Friday. We agreed anything above $100 I'd need to see the receipt now. She had been doing it too. I could tell it bothered her though. She still doesn't get it. Anyway, she spent $93 per our debit card at a local dept store. No receipt supplied. RED FLAGS. I feel stupid I have to do this but I dug through her purse and found the receipt. She put $93 on the card, $80 in cash and used a $150 gift card. So shady. No one does this. She was trying to keep it under $100. Not sure where the gift card came from. She said her mom gave it to her. I assume lie here. She fought me a while on why she did it that way which made absolutely no sense. In the end, she admitted to essentially the same behavior she had demonstrated before. I said we are done. It took you less than 2 weeks to lie to me again. I was done too. She could tell I was serious. I was so angry let her do it to our family /us again. 

She cried and begged like she never did before. 1st time it really seemed she thought it was really over. I gave in and said I am giving us until counseling. I just don't know what is going on with this woman who is a great mom and until a couple weeks ago someone I trusted 100%?


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## SecondTime'Round

Have you specifically ASKED her about gambling??

Is she being blackmailed for something??

Does she have a secret storage shed somewhere where she his hoarding purchases??


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## longhorns

Asked about gambling, drugs, boyfriend, shopping addiction. Of course, all no. She "spent it on the family". Makes no sense. It's not like our lifestyle or expenses dramatically changed over the last 2 yrs. In fact, the 2 of us are making the most $ we ever had. My gut is shopping addiction that she doesn't think is a problem at all. There are layers of denial with her I am now seeing. It could be anything though to be honest. 

Oops, big thing I left out. Yesterday I found some paperwork from her therapist. It was for billing as it had ICD codes on it. Checked off as of Dec, 2014 were ADD , recurrent major depressive disorder and opiate dependence. Just those 3 boxes checked. She got very angry when I calmly confronted her about the opiate part. I am unaware of any opiates she takes. There was a higher level unchecked on the form and that was opiate addiction. She claims the doc must just put that on the form to get something covered on insurance.


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## EnjoliWoman

Ask her for a year's (or two) worth of statements from that account you found out about. 

Have you pulled both of your credit reports from all three agencies?

Unless she has been paying cash, there is a trail. Or she's hoarding for her getaway. If it's just wanton spending, that sure can happen - lunches out every day, high end clothing and shoes, weekly nail and monthly salon trips and cosmetics... she could just have champagne taste. But it's worth finding out NOW.


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## longhorns

Copy of MD form


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## MJJEAN

So, there is evidence of opiate (drug) addiction and/or evidence of a shopping addiction.

Here's the thing, though, for a shopping addiction there is a paper trail. Most people use debit/credit cards and tend to carry no cash or just small amounts of cash.

Drug dealers take cash and trades. That's it.

It's common for addicts to do cash back at stores so the receipts say X amount was spent at Local Department Store when in reality only Y was spent there and the rest was spent elsewhere.

My family tree has a few functional addict branches. My money is on pills.

Your financial future is in danger. She'll keep spending until she kicks her habit for good. She will run through every dime you both have that she can access. You can no longer trust your wife. Separate finances NOW and demand she fess up to her addiction and get into treatment or you file. Period. No bs excuses, no explanation, either fess up and get real treatment or goodbye.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## longhorns

EnjoliWoman said:


> Ask her for a year's (or two) worth of statements from that account you found out about.
> 
> Have you pulled both of your credit reports from all three agencies?
> 
> Unless she has been paying cash, there is a trail. Or she's hoarding for her getaway. If it's just wanton spending, that sure can happen - lunches out every day, high end clothing and shoes, weekly nail and monthly salon trips and cosmetics... she could just have champagne taste. But it's worth finding out NOW.


It's literally 90% cash withdrawals. No way to trace it. I got all the statements. Does she have nice taste in stuff? Yep. Keep in mind we have been married for 12 yrs. This is all recent relatively speaking.


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## farsidejunky

Pills.


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## MJJEAN

Hmmm, I think I know how to settle this for you. At home drug testing. The ones that cover opiates aren't hard to find at pharmacies. Tell her to take a drug test right here, right now.

Considering the large amount of missing money, the dr checking opiate dependence, and the shady store deal, I don't think it's unreasonable.

If she freaks out, you have your answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dycedarg

This may have already been touched on, but I'd like to point out one other factor in play here. 

If her activities are illegal you are at risk. I'm not saying she would throw you to the wolves or anything but it's your money that's being used irresponsibly, and even dangerously. It appears that you are unable to account for all her expenses and those of which you do know are troubling. 

I'm not sure what to advise in light of that, but you should certainly consider it. I am very sorry to hear about this- it doesn't sound very pleasant at all, I wish there was more I could do or say.


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## MJJEAN

longhorns said:


> It's literally 90% cash withdrawals. No way to trace it. I got all the statements. Does she have nice taste in stuff? Yep. Keep in mind we have been married for 12 yrs. This is all recent relatively speaking.


In the immortal words of G n R.. " I used to do a little, but a little couldn't do it, so the little got more and more." 

My guess, she is a depressed woman who either self medicated recreationally or became addicted after an injury or surgery and has been using opiates for a while. Over time, she would need higher doses to get the effect she's looking for. Which means the habit becomes more expensive and more dangerous and more noticeable. Inevitably, she got caught.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349

MJJEAN said:


> In the immortal words of G n R.. " I used to do a little, but a little couldn't do it, so the little got more and more."
> 
> My guess, she is a depressed woman who either self medicated recreationally or became addicted after an injury or surgery and has been using opiates for a while. Over time, she would need higher doses to get the effect she's looking for. Which means the habit becomes more expensive and more dangerous and more noticeable. Inevitably, she got caught.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



^I agree ^ OP you need to get informed on opiate dependence and addiction. She has probably been using the cash to go to pill mill Dr.s. Her regular doctor wouldn't have been writing enough prescriptions to feed an opiate addiction they are very closely monitored by the DEA, so if her regular physician actually got her hooked they have a responsibility to help her ween off. 

She is still on the pills and taking several other addictive meds. (ADD meds, Ambien) She is still hiding it because she was defensive when you approached her. My friend works for a very well known rehab clinic so I know a fair amount about this. She is very likely going to need rehab. 

This is a horrible situation for you to be in, I'm really sorry you are going through this. Have you considered an intervention of some kind?


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## JohnA

If she is a pill head,

9 pills a day at 30.00 a pop will pretty much do it in a year. As bad as this is, hopefully she is paying cash in full for all her pills. The monkey OWNS the addict, her. Pretty soon her dealer will help her out if she helps them out to make up the difference. Yea it gets real ugly fast. Unless you have seen it up close you do not understand the horror in store for you, the Tampa bay area is rife with these stories. 

The recent game she played with receipts is a hugh red flag. You need to contact NA and ask for a referral to a good counselor to help educate you what she is going though and how to protect your kids and yourself. 

You do not know the horror the monkey. Look the talk show host Rush Lim... got schooled by the monkey. His story started with pills for back surgery. 

Screw the money, it's a lot but your wife has gone down the rabbit hole. I would never say this to a BS, but will to you. You married each other for better or worse. Now is the time to step up and protect her as a loving husband.


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## Chris Taylor

Interesting that she paid cash for the doctor visit. Could possibly be that she is seeing more than one doctor and getting multiple prescriptions. Paying cash would avoid multiple doctor charges in your checkbook or charge card statements.


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## longhorns

If she has an opiate addiction she's done a good job hiding it. The 1st day I found out about the $ we went to the pharmacy and I got her get the pharmacy to pull Rxs for the past yr. There were the Add meds and antidepressants on there. No opiates. I also went through the house and car looking for any opiate evidence. I could find none. A few months ago she was acting really weird. Fast talking, repeating herself over and over again, slurred speech. I researched the Vyvanse 70mg I knew she was on. Those symptoms lined up with that drug. She said she stopped it. I think she did at that point because those symptoms went away. She also told me so take it with a grain of salt that her doc admitted she might have over medicated her. I can't find the opiate pills or Rxs. It's all so confusing.


----------



## kristin2349

Chris Taylor said:


> Interesting that she paid cash for the doctor visit. Could possibly be that she is seeing more than one doctor and getting multiple prescriptions. Paying cash would avoid multiple doctor charges in your checkbook or charge card statements.


The receipt appears to be from her mental health provider. If she is doctor shopping and getting scripts from more than one Dr. it is only a matter of time before she gets busted, getting multiple scripts for the same controlled substances by Dr. shopping is illegal. She needs a medically supervised detox.


----------



## longhorns

Also, I suggested we go to her therapist for counseling. I thought good idea since she already goes to her. The therapist could have the complete story and has the history. She is adamant against that. She said it should be separated. I think that is odd. Why?


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> Also, I suggested we go to her therapist for counseling. I thought good idea since she already goes to her. The therapist could have the complete story and has the history. She is adamant against that. She said it should be separated. I think that is odd. Why?



What is her explanation about the opiate dependence? And the missing money? She needs to be pegged down hard on this. The therapist likely has more of the truth than you. Her not fully coming clean is a major problem.

I'm speaking as a woman that can spend money like it is my job. I can tell you were it all went and show you what I bought.


----------



## longhorns

kristin2349 said:


> longhorns said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I suggested we go to her therapist for counseling. I thought good idea since she already goes to her. The therapist could have the complete story and has the history. She is adamant against that. She said it should be separated. I think that is odd. Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is her explanation about the opiate dependence? And the missing money? She needs to be pegged down hard on this.
> 
> I'm speaking as a woman that can spend money like it is my job. I can tell you were it all went and show you what I bought.
Click to expand...

She said she is not sure why it is on there. She suggested she put that on there to get something covered or it was an error. Another makes no sense response. This is part of the reason I want to go to that therapist. I think she has loaded up this therapist with all sorts of false info and she is afraid of her finding out. That's my guess. Keep in mind, she did tell me the therapist has no clue about her stealing all this $.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> She said she is not sure why it is on there. She suggested she put that on there to get something covered or it was an error. Another makes no sense response. This is part of the reason I want to go to that therapist. I think she has loaded up this therapist with all sorts of false info and she is afraid of her finding out. That's my guess. Keep in mind, she did tell me the therapist has no clue about her stealing all this $.


You know that is absolute garbage right? No therapist is going to randomly check off opiate dependence. For one the other codes would easily be covered, AND it could more than likely lead to the claim getting rejected because substance abuse treatment is usually limited by most insurers. My insurance is good but will only pay for inpatient rehab twice in my lifetime. Even outpatient is limited. Does she have any scripts for Suboxone? Have you checked to see if all the Dr's names are the same on her scripts?


----------



## kag123

Can you hire a P.I. to follow her and get the real answer?


----------



## kag123

Also, this situation was presented on the radio on a popular radio show here recently. 

The host and his wife are on the radio show and always portrayed a perfect loving marriage of a couple of decades. 

He found out money was missing to around the same tune as you. She went dark and left. 

A lawyer and P.I. found that over several years she was stockpiling cash via store cash back debiting, and gift cards, to create a safety net to leave. He had no idea.


----------



## Tasorundo

She is either getting drugs or stockpiling cash.

Shopping addiction........$94,000???????? Where is the stuff? I mean what do you buy for that much money and not be able to prove anything?


----------



## longhorns

kag123 said:


> Also, this situation was presented on the radio on a popular radio show here recently.
> 
> The host and his wife are on the radio show and always portrayed a perfect loving marriage of a couple of decades.
> 
> He found out money was missing to around the same tune as you. She went dark and left.
> 
> A lawyer and P.I. found that over several years she was stockpiling cash via store cash back debiting, and gift cards, to create a safety net to leave. He had no idea.


I really do not think that is it. Who knows? I doubt it seriously. Gut tells me something else. I think there is something else she is hiding and she's afraid to tell me because I'd leave her. That's my gut. Otherwise, what a perfect opportunity to leave right now.


----------



## Tasorundo

That was no accident checked on the form, there is no need for 3 diagnosis on a insurance claim, like you get a bonus for a 3 of a kind. Also, what do the 1,2,3 mean? To me that indicates level of importance or severity, and I doubt they accidentally checked #1.


----------



## longhorns

I've never done counseling. Should I just wait and hold tight until next week? Bring this all up in counseling and see what the counselor advises? This is what I want to do right now. Get her to schedule an appointment for the 2 of us to come into her therapist and tell her what is going on. Then ask her to explain the opiate dependency she checked off. Thats is what I want to do.

Heck, could be done over the speaker phone.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> I really do not think that is it. Who knows? I doubt it seriously. Gut tells me something else. I think there is something else she is hiding and she's afraid to tell me because I'd leave her. That's my gut. Otherwise, what a perfect opportunity to leave right now.




I think you found it, she has a drug problem. Opiate dependence is tough because she needs them now to feel normal. If she doesn't take her normal dose withdrawals will kick in. She is probably deeply ashamed of this and also terrified of the idea of giving them up. She is likely convinced she "needs" them, after all they were prescribed to her for a reason. People get into trouble with prescription meds all the time. She needs help or this is going to continue. OP you need to force this issue, she IS an addict get educated and protect yourself and your family.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> I've never done counseling. Should I just wait and hold tight until next week? Bring this all up in counseling and see what the counselor advises? This is what I want to do right now. Get her to schedule an appointment for the 2 of us to come into her therapist and tell her what is going on. Then ask her to explain the opiate dependency she checked off. Thats is what I want to do.



Don't even ask, insist on it. Contact this therapist yourself if you must.


----------



## Tasorundo

Drug dependence also explains why she so quickly violated your rules to get cash. She needs the cash, because she is having physical symptoms.

You need to sit down and talk with her, and you should be supportive of her and let her know you want to get help.


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## JohnA

So much normal stuff of life going on. It is confusing because of the elephant in the room she will not acknowledge. The harder you push, the harder she pushes away - squared. So the money she took in her mind she earned (which she did) and you are using this issue to try to control her. He is trying to control me is her new mantra that she embraces with a religious fever. 

As for her not showing symptoms, the body builds up tolerance, which results in what you would take one pill for and not show outward signs of usage, she maybe is taking three. (three pills three times a day at 30.00)

As for the pharmacy print out, there are other pharmacies. A friend could have started her down this road. Remember what I said about helping out customers who are short cash? In which case she may be paying 40.00 a bill.

I read there are test out there that can test hair samples for drug usages. Perhaps some here has info.


----------



## longhorns

Well, that went poorly. I asked her to call her doc just so I could understand why opiate dependency was checked. She flipped out. Anger, tears, yelling. She said she is deeply hurt I'd question that. She called finally and left a message. I felt bad but I kept telling her I need this explained for my peace of mind. She may not have an opiate problem but I need to rule that out. She was very shocked I made her do it. Why do I feel so bad forcing her to do that? I shouldn't.

I guess the doc will call back. Who knows. I won't take her telling me the doc said it was nothing.


----------



## Tasorundo

I think she is in desperation mode. Be strong, she has no right to be upset at this point, there has been no good explanation given and ultimately you are doing what is the best interest of you and her.


----------



## longhorns

JohnA said:


> So much normal stuff of life going on. It is confusing because of the elephant in the room she will not acknowledge. The harder you push, the harder she pushes away - squared. So the money she took in her mind she earned (which she did) and you are using this issue to try to control her. He is trying to control me is her new mantra that she embraces with a religious fever.


OMG are you spying on us? This is exactly what she is doing. She keeps saying now I feel like I'm under your thumb, I can't do anything now, I have a new reality I have to deal with. 

In response to all that I say I lost all trust in you. For right now I need you to be an open book. It will help me develop trust back. It will help me and it will get better. Just right now I need to verify a lot of things. Believe me I don't want to do this at all. It is exhausting. I never did this the 1st 12 yrs of marriage. 

I would expect her reaction to this stuff to be OK I understand I need to do this for you to develop trust again. I'll do whatever and hope this helps you. Instead I get anger and tears and her complaining about her losing her independence. I don't think she gets it at all.


----------



## kag123

Keep in mind that if she has an addiction, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that you would not know. 

Certain substances require the user to keep the drug in their system just to be normal - not high. The withdrawal symptoms are truly horrific and only using keeps them at bay. Over time more and more of the drug is needed to keep those symptoms away. She could be using a drug and you'd never know because it's not like she's stumbling around high all of the time. It's a bit like a diabetic not having their insulin...insulin makes them normal, not high. Not having insulin makes them very ill and usually very quickly. 

Most of the time, these addictions strike normal people that hold normal jobs and try to function normally in society. The seams come apart when the amount of the drug needed to be normal exceeds the threshold of being able to hide it any longer. For example - not being able to get your hands on enough of a supply to keep you from your dealer for more than a day. (Unexplained sudden absences from work, changing plans suddenly, not dependable) Not being able to afford the drug anymore so taking drastic measures to either get money to buy it (lying, stealing, emptying accounts) or switching to a different more "street" drug that is more affordable in an attempt to stave off withdrawal. 

It's really terrible. I hope this isn't her issue. It would explain a lot though.


----------



## gouge_away

longhorns said:


> Checked off as of Dec, 2014 were ADD , recurrent major depressive disorder and opiate dependence. Just those 3 boxes checked. She got very angry when I calmly confronted her about the opiate part. I am unaware of any opiates she takes. There was a higher level unchecked on the form and that was opiate addiction. She claims the doc must just put that on the form to get something covered on insurance.


Red herring! I would be turning that house upsidedown looking for oxy!


----------



## Chris Taylor

Of course she doesn't want you talking to her therapist/counselor. You will be telling them things your wife hasn't revealed or has been lying about.

And as for her calling about the opiate problem being checked off? Good luck. The counselor will NEVER talk to you due to confidentiality. Your wife, if she actually called and didn't dial the weather line and talked into an empty phone, will probably say the counselor called and said it was a mistake.

Insist on talking to the counselor in a meeting. If you can't do that, call and leave a long message about what is going on. Leave your number in case the counselor wants to talk but at least get the facts in front of them.


----------



## always_hopefull

longhorns said:


> If she has an opiate addiction she's done a good job hiding it. The 1st day I found out about the $ we went to the pharmacy and I got her get the pharmacy to pull Rxs for the past yr. There were the Add meds and antidepressants on there. No opiates. I also went through the house and car looking for any opiate evidence. I could find none. A few months ago she was acting really weird. Fast talking, repeating herself over and over again, slurred speech. I researched the Vyvanse 70mg I knew she was on. Those symptoms lined up with that drug. She said she stopped it. I think she did at that point because those symptoms went away. She also told me so take it with a grain of salt that her doc admitted she might have over medicated her. I can't find the opiate pills or Rxs. It's all so confusing.


How badly do you want to know the truth? 

If you do want to know, try a hair follicle test. Go take some hair from your wife's brush and send it in for a drug test. Hopefully she has long hair. It's not as simple as this, but you can search for online testing facilities. This way you can get concrete proof with out being lied to and gaslighted. You'll lose your sanity trying to get an answer. 

Fyi, the invoice you posted, often they number in order of the biggest issue first. Opiate dependancy was number 1....


----------



## gouge_away

Yeah....
Therapist always check off opiate addiction, why not. Lol

Denial brother, denial.
You aren't even close to step 1.


----------



## kristin2349

OP you need to realize that addicts lie. She will jump up an down yell and scream and call you the devil. She is going to cry and act shocked and outraged that you could ever think such a thing. 

Be really firm about this, she has spent almost 100K without any reasonable explanation to you and now this. IF anyone in this situation had nothing to hide, they would be doing backfilps to prove themselves. You can buy a urine drug test at any drugstore. By one and make her pee in front of you if she has a problem with it too bad. Insist on going to see this doctor with her. 

If you back down on this be prepared to find out she has run up debt and drained any other bank account she can get her hands on. Have you run a credit report for both of you?


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## MJJEAN

Longhorn, you have nearly $ 100,000 of unaccounted for money over only a two year period.

You've seen paperwork from her doctor stating she has a drug addiction.

Your wife cannot account for the money. She denies the paperwork. She loses her mind, becomes defensive, starts to gaslight and manipulate you into rugsweeping it by acting upset at you for questioning her VERY questionable behavior.

So, umm, when are you going to admit your wife has a drug problem and firmly insist she admit it to you and seek treatment/rehab?

You keep being nice about it you might nice her to death. Opiate addicts dying of accidental overdoses isn't rare.

Your wife won't come clean until you make her.

ETA: Pharmacies are not the only source of drugs. And those who sell drugs are sometimes middle or upper middle class. It's not hard to get your hands on whatever you need. You just have to know someone who knows someone. Heck, lil old ladies will sell their pain meds to make ends meet!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## longhorns

She is now more than happy to do a hair drug test. It is set up to do tomorrow. She seems pretty confident all will be OK. Head is spinning . I dunno. I guess we will see. She is still adamant not talking to her therapist.


----------



## Cynthia

I am sorry that you didn't realize that your wife had a drug problem. She has obviously hid it very well. But this is something you are going to have to wrap your mind around immediately. She is addicted to opiates. This means that she has spent the money on black market drugs. 
She needs to go to rehab. If she doesn't want to go to rehab, treatment won't be effective. She has to want to be rehabilitated or it will be a waste of time and money.
You will need to prove she has a drug problem to protect your family. You do not want to split custody of your children with a drug addict. Please seek legal representation immediately. Do not tell your wife what you plan to to. As a drug addict, she is irrational and there is no telling what she might do next. Make sure you have your bases covered before you make any moves.


----------



## Cynthia

longhorns said:


> She is now more than happy to do a hair drug test. It is set up to do tomorrow. She seems pretty confident all will be OK. Head is spinning . I dunno. I guess we will see. She is still adamant not talking to her therapist.


Be prepared for her to have a plan on how to spin this. She may claim it wasn't her hair, they made a mistake, etc. For you peace of mind, you need the results, but don't believe anything she says.


----------



## longhorns

CynthiaDe said:


> longhorns said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is now more than happy to do a hair drug test. It is set up to do tomorrow. She seems pretty confident all will be OK. Head is spinning . I dunno. I guess we will see. She is still adamant not talking to her therapist.
> 
> 
> 
> Be prepared for her to have a plan on how to spin this. She may claim it wasn't her hair, they made a mistake, etc. For you peace of mind, you need the results, but don't believe anything she says.
Click to expand...

She told me 5 min ago also she wants this issue behind us so I won't think that anymore. That's the thing I wanted to hear earlier. We will see I guess. What if it is negative?


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> She told me 5 min ago also she wants this issue behind us so I won't think that anymore. That's the thing I wanted to hear earlier. We will see I guess. What if it is negative?



You need to talk to this therapist and you know it. There is a reason she is adamant that you not speak to them, that should be a screaming red flag right there. You know this, insist on you both talking to the doctor face to face along with the drug test. You need to know she is being properly treated. She is still on addictive medicines.

You want a 5 panel hair test with "extended opiod screening" BTW


----------



## lucy999

longhorns said:


> She is now more than happy to do a hair drug test. It is set up to do tomorrow. She seems pretty confident all will be OK.


Make sure you or someone you trust sees her actually pluck that hair out.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

MJJEAN said:


> Longhorn, you have nearly $ 100,000 of unaccounted for money over only a two year period.
> 
> You've seen paperwork from her doctor stating she has a drug addiction.
> 
> Your wife cannot account for the money. She denies the paperwork. She loses her mind, becomes defensive, starts to gaslight and manipulate you into rugsweeping it by acting upset at you for questioning her VERY questionable behavior.
> 
> So, umm, when are you going to admit your wife has a drug problem and firmly insist she admit it to you and seek treatment/rehab?
> 
> You keep being nice about it you might nice her to death. Opiate addicts dying of accidental overdoses isn't rare.
> 
> Your wife won't come clean until you make her.
> 
> ETA: Pharmacies are not the only source of drugs. And those who sell drugs are sometimes middle or upper middle class. It's not hard to get your hands on whatever you need. You just have to know someone who knows someone. Heck, lil old ladies will sell their pain meds to make ends meet!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree, agree, agree.

I keep reading you saying you've seen all of her prescriptions. So what??? Do you really think drug addicts get all of their drugs through legitimate prescriptions?? Of course not!! She has a source you don't even know about!


----------



## turnera

longhorns said:


> Asked about gambling, drugs, boyfriend, shopping addiction. Of course, all no. She "spent it on the family".


In 35 years of marriage, I have NEVER spent $95 at a drug store. Even on a shopping binge.

Wait, I take it back. ONE time, CVS had a buy one/get one free sale on perfume and I spent $75 for TWO bottles of perfume.

Other than that, NO.

She is a professional money launderer.


----------



## turnera

longhorns said:


> She is now more than happy to do a hair drug test. It is set up to do tomorrow. She seems pretty confident all will be OK. Head is spinning . I dunno. I guess we will see. She is still adamant not talking to her therapist.


All the more reason that you HAVE to talk to her therapist. Not to change anything, but at the very least to let her therapist KNOW THE TRUTH.

Just maybe, her therapist can then HELP HER.

I called my brother's therapist when it became clear that he was going to attempt suicide. 

Did he hate me for telling her? Yes. Did it save his life? Absolutely.


----------



## JohnA

Kristin, you suggested an exact test. I mentioned the test earlier as a possiblity with the caveat that I knew nothing about it's limitations. Do you know any limitations that may show a false negative result ? Also what else can the hair be tested for?

Longhorn, we focused in very quickly on opiates, but there are other drugs she could be using, if that is her problem. Of hand Molly is a big problem in the Tampa area. It is a mix of ex and something else to provide a balanced high. Establish what this test will not pick up. 

Also if it drugs or something else, wanting to know what happened to 100k is not controlling. You may not get a say on how some money is spent, but you need to know. Bottom line you have not a 100k your wife thought was in the bank, have you?


----------



## Cynthia

longhorns said:


> She told me 5 min ago also she wants this issue behind us so I won't think that anymore. That's the thing I wanted to hear earlier. We will see I guess. What if it is negative?


I would recommend going to a lab and having her tested. I think they can do a urine test and get an immediate result. I saw a test on Amazon.com that can be done at home. http://www.amazon.com/Single-Opiate...d=1442378818&sr=8-1&keywords=opiate+drug+test You could try that and if it comes back negative, insist on having a panel done at a lab. If you do the home test, I recommend that you don't tell her until you have the test, then tell her you want her to pee in a cup - now. She can have privacy in the bathroom and you can test it immediately. There will be no way for her to fake that.
If it comes back negative, then you know something else is going on and you can go from there, but it really does appear that your wife has a drug addiction and is doing everything she can to throw you off track, including having a crying fit and turning it back around on you. Don't fall for her antics.
The form you saw is not a fluke. It shows that she has been diagnosed with an opiate addiction. This is serious stuff. Like others said, she may be scared to death about what will happen if she goes off them.


----------



## happy as a clam

EleGirl said:


> *Whether your wife needs those drugs is unclear.* It might just be that she's going to a therapist who is just throwing drugs at her.. one on top of the other... to the point that whatever might be an underlying problem is not now the problem she (and you) are dealing with.


:iagree:

HOWEVER, coming off of benzodiazepines like Xanax and Ambien is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE. It requires a long, slow taper, sometimes years-long. Cutting them cold turkey causes a hellacious protracted withdrawal syndrome and can also result in DEATH, as quitting benzos can lead to awful life-threatening seizures.

Quitting opiates, even heroin, is FAR easier than quitting benzos.

For any doubting Thomas's, just go to benzobuddies dot org and read the HORROR stories of people trying to come off this class of drugs.

_*Sorry, I will get off my benzo rant now.*_


----------



## happy as a clam

farsidejunky said:


> Pills.


Or heroin.

If she's an opiate addict, she can blow through a boatload of cash procuring "street" oxy's and/or heroin.

I know a very "respectable" professional wife who is a heroin junkie...


----------



## gouge_away

Oxy is a gate way to heroin.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

happy as a clam said:


> Or heroin.
> 
> If she's an opiate addict, she can blow through a boatload of cash procuring "street" oxy's and/or heroin.
> 
> I know a very "respectable" professional wife who is a heroin junkie...


Does her husband know? I would think heroin would be extremely difficult to hide from a spouse, wouldn't it? Can you take it any other way than injecting it?


----------



## Nucking Futs

SecondTime'Round said:


> Does her husband know? I would think heroin would be extremely difficult to hide from a spouse, wouldn't it? Can you take it any other way than injecting it?


Maybe he should check between her toes...


----------



## longhorns

It's not heroin. It would be pills if anything.


----------



## turnera

How do you know?


----------



## longhorns

She just peed clean now we wait for the hair test. They said 72 hrs.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> She just peed clean now we wait for the hair test. They said 72 hrs.


Was the pee test for opiates alone? She is taking amphetamines by RX , the ADD meds would have shown up along with benzos.

You need to talk to her therapist, if she is against that there is a reason. If you don't you are asking for whatever comes next, sorry.


----------



## Decorum

longhorns said:


> OMG are you spying on us? This is exactly what she is doing. She keeps saying now I feel like I'm under your thumb, I can't do anything now, I have a new reality I have to deal with.
> 
> In response to all that I say I lost all trust in you. For right now I need you to be an open book. It will help me develop trust back. It will help me and it will get better. Just right now I need to verify a lot of things. Believe me I don't want to do this at all. It is exhausting. I never did this the 1st 12 yrs of marriage.
> 
> I would expect her reaction to this stuff to be OK I understand I need to do this for you to develop trust again. I'll do whatever and hope this helps you. Instead I get anger and tears and her complaining about her losing her independence. I don't think she gets it at all.





longhorns said:


> I think there is something else she is hiding and she's afraid to tell me because I'd leave her. That's my gut.


This will almost certainly prove true.

You would notice almost 94K in knickknacks lying around the house if it was shopping.



Hey my question is...

Can you do a correlation time line between
withdrawals/life events (big or small)/phone calls/visits from people/outings, etc, to see if there is a pattern?

And I am so sorry you are going through this.


----------



## longhorns

I am pushing her hard on this. I am out of town on business for a few days so I will sit and calmly tell her I need her therapist to explain to me and her of she thinks it is incorrect why opiate dependency was marked. I said to her if you think it is error you should want to get to the bottom of it.


----------



## longhorns

here is the urine test:


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> I am pushing her hard on this. I am out of town on business for a few days so I will sit and calmly tell her I need her therapist to explain to me and her of she thinks it is incorrect why opiate dependency was marked. I said to her if you think it is error you should want to get to the bottom of it.



I would treat this situation similar to investigating for infidelity (and she did commit financial infidelity), keep quiet about what you are going to do in terms of checking her story out. You are just giving her clues as to what she needs to do to cover up better.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> here is the urine test:



She didn't test positive for anything at all which is a red flag itself. She takes prescription amphetamines. I assume she went alone?

ETA: She also takes Xanax and didn't test positive for Benzos. She didn't take this test herself. If you don't go with her in person to the hair test it is a waste of time don't trust her.


----------



## longhorns

kristin2349 said:


> I would treat this situation similar to investigating for infidelity (and she did commit financial infidelity), keep quiet about what you are going to do in terms of checking her story out. You are just giving her clues as to what she needs to do to cover up better.


I agree. She is super smart. 2 4 yr degrees. Everytime I dig I find something. I wish I could find if she has a secret email account. I checked history on browsers and phone. Did an online Spokeo search too. I just feel there is one for some reason. I have no proof of that.


----------



## longhorns

kristin2349 said:


> She didn't test positive for anything at all which is a red flag itself. She takes prescription amphetamines. I assume she went alone?


She stopped the Vyvance a couple months ago. I know that because her odd fast talking, severe agitation and repeating of stories over and over stopped.


----------



## longhorns

kristin2349 said:


> This is your future here, I'm pointing at the obvious clues you are posting here. There is an issue. You can take the word of your wife that squandered $100K like it was "mad money" or you can dig in and get to the bottom of it. Good luck.


I hear you. This was a urine test after she was scared straight. Means nothing. In fact, I told her I did not even care about a urine test because it is too short term. She insisted on it though because she wanted me to see something right away. Hair test results in a few days. Would Vyvance show up in the test as an amphetamine?


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> I hear you. This was a urine test after she was scared straight. Means nothing. In fact, I told her I did not even care about a urine test because it is too short term. She insisted on it though because she wanted me to see something right away. Hair test results in a few days. Would Vyvance show up in the test as an amphetamine?



Yes Vyvance will show as an amphetamine and Xanax (you also listed that as one of her meds) will show positive for Benzos...

If you didn't see her pee into a cup with your own eyes she could have scammed the test. Same with the hair test. She could pay someone to take it for her. I had an acquaintance that was an opiate addict and faked out all of his court ordered pee tests.


----------



## longhorns

kristin2349 said:


> Yes Vyvance will show as an amphetamine and Xanax (you also listed that as one of her meds) will show positive for Benzos...
> 
> If you didn't see her pee into a cup with your own eyes she could have scammed the test. Same with the hair test. She could pay someone to take it for her. I had an acquaintance that was an opiate addict and faked out all of his court ordered pee tests.


I took her in. I did not see her pee as it was a clinic when they called her back. She has her hair clipped where they took it. I saw it after she walked out. I probably shouldve have watched her pee but I did not even care about that test. The tech clipped her hair. The tech had to do that. Probably stupid I didnt go back but I was on a conference call and decided not to. I dont think this drug testing clinic would take hair she pre clipped but who knows? Keep in mind, I'm not wired like this. I've never done this. There's no book on how to deal with your wife ripping off your family. I trust her 0 though.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> I took her in. I did not see her pee as it was a clinic when they called her back. She has her hair clipped where they took it. I saw it after she walked out. I probably shouldve have watched her pee but I did not even care about that test. The tech clipped her hair. The tech had to do that.


It will be interesting to see what the hair test says. But bottom line she is still hiding whatever her real issue is. Until she acknowledges what she did and comes completely clean, you can't begin to deal or heal. You have to keep pushing, since she is resisting the therapist you need to demand that you talk to her with your wife, make it non negotiable.

Sorry you are dealing with this mess.


----------



## longhorns

kristin2349 said:


> It will be interesting to see what the hair test says. But bottom line she is still hiding whatever her real issue is. Until she acknowledges what she did and comes completely clean, you can't begin to deal or heal. You have to keep pushing, since she is resisting the therapist you need to demand that you talk to her with your wife, make it non negotiable.
> 
> Sorry you are dealing with this mess.


100% agree. Y'all give great advice. Some not but most good. It is leading me through this incredible difficult time I thought I would never have to deal with. I appreciate it all. I have no one to talk to. Counseling is next week and I cant wait. I am going to do solo therapy too. It will be nice to talk to someone.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> 100% agree. Y'all give great advice. Some not but most good. It is leading me through this incredible difficult time I thought I would never have to deal with. I appreciate it all. I have no one to talk to. Counseling is next week and I cant wait. I am going to do solo therapy too. It will be nice to talk to someone.


In my line of work I've dealt with a lot of people with drug and money issues. I've known more than my share of fully functioning addicts (my good friend gambled away 500K).

Are you going to demand to see the Dr. that diagnosed her as opiate dependent?


----------



## longhorns

kristin2349 said:


> In my line of work I've dealt with a lot of people with drug and money issues. I've known more than my share of fully functioning addicts (my good friend gambled away 500K).
> 
> Are you going to demand to see the Dr. that diagnosed her as opiate dependent?


YES. She is so offended I am making her do this. I told her I saw your MD record after you stole 100K that said you are opiate dependent. We have to talk to her to understand what she meant.


----------



## Affaircare

The urine test your wife had done (a 10-panel) determines the presence or absence of 10 types of drugs or their metabolites in your urine. 

Test results are reported as negative or positive. If your drug metabolite level is higher than the cutoff level, your test will indicate a positive result. Here's a list of the drugs and the cutoff levels and the approximate time they can be detected in your urine.

*Drug Name--Cut‐Off Level--Detection Period*
Amphetamine--1,000 ng/mL--1‐4 days
Barbiturate--300 ng/mL--1‐4 days
Benzodiazepine--300 ng/mL--1‐7 days
Cocaine--300 ng/mL--1-4 days
Marijuana (THC)--50 ng/mL--1-28 days
Methamphetamine--1,000 mg/mL--1-4 days
Methadone--300 ng/mL--1-4 days
Opiates--2,000 ng/mL--1-4 days
Phencyclidine--25 ng/mL--1-4 days
Propoxyphene--300 ng/mL--1-4 days

So what this test proves is that within the last 4 days she has not taken enough opiate to still have 2,000 ng/mL in her urine. 

*A List of Common Opiates in Increasing Strength*

These are some of the common opiates and their generic names. They are listed in order of increasing strength.

Codeine
Vicodin, Hycodan (hydrocodone)
MS Contin Kadian (morphine)
Oxycontin, Percoset (oxycodone)
Dilaudid (hydromorphone)
Duragesic (fentanyl)

These days it's fairly common for someone to have a prescription for Vicodin after hospitalization such as a surgery, and if she has recurrent depression and ADD, maybe she's tried various medication "mixes" and none give her the numbing of emotional pain like the opiates do. Nothing personal but it took me about 15 minutes to find a place online to buy hydrocodone and "without prescription pain relief medicine" online, and it was not cheap. I'd guess that she gets the cash, buys a disposable debit card, buys her opiate, and thus is able to function in a way that seems "normal."

Finally, a hair test can be beat, and rather easily: The Hair Drug Test Can Be Beat! Here?s How Thus, unless you are sure she didn't wash her hair with Ultra Clean or Clear Choice, then you really can not be sure.


----------



## longhorns

Affaircare said:


> The urine test your wife had done (a 10-panel) determines the presence or absence of 10 types of drugs or their metabolites in your urine.
> 
> Test results are reported as negative or positive. If your drug metabolite level is higher than the cutoff level, your test will indicate a positive result. Here's a list of the drugs and the cutoff levels and the approximate time they can be detected in your urine.
> 
> *Drug Name--Cut‐Off Level--Detection Period*
> Amphetamine--1,000 ng/mL--1‐4 days
> Barbiturate--300 ng/mL--1‐4 days
> Benzodiazepine--300 ng/mL--1‐7 days
> Cocaine--300 ng/mL--1-4 days
> Marijuana (THC)--50 ng/mL--1-28 days
> Methamphetamine--1,000 mg/mL--1-4 days
> Methadone--300 ng/mL--1-4 days
> Opiates--2,000 ng/mL--1-4 days
> Phencyclidine--25 ng/mL--1-4 days
> Propoxyphene--300 ng/mL--1-4 days
> 
> So what this test proves is that within the last 4 days she has not taken enough opiate to still have 2,000 ng/mL in her urine.
> 
> *A List of Common Opiates in Increasing Strength*
> 
> These are some of the common opiates and their generic names. They are listed in order of increasing strength.
> 
> Codeine
> Vicodin, Hycodan (hydrocodone)
> MS Contin Kadian (morphine)
> Oxycontin, Percoset (oxycodone)
> Dilaudid (hydromorphone)
> Duragesic (fentanyl)
> 
> These days it's fairly common for someone to have a prescription for Vicodin after hospitalization such as a surgery, and if she has recurrent depression and ADD, maybe she's tried various medication "mixes" and none give her the numbing of emotional pain like the opiates do. Nothing personal but it took me about 15 minutes to find a place online to buy hydrocodone and "without prescription pain relief medicine" online, and it was not cheap. I'd guess that she gets the cash, buys a disposable debit card, buys her opiate, and thus is able to function in a way that seems "normal."
> 
> Finally, a hair test can be beat, and rather easily: The Hair Drug Test Can Be Beat! Here?s How Thus, unless you are sure she didn't wash her hair with Ultra Clean or Clear Choice, then you really can not be sure.


WOW. She had a surgery in November with pain killers. I thought about this. Keep in mind though, this started way before that. FYI it was a stomach surgery for her to lose weight. Totally unnecessary in my view. She went from 210 to 140 now. She is 5' 7". I loved her either way. Didnt care. She looks great now but I never ever told her she needs to lose weight.


----------



## gouge_away

kristin2349 said:


> Yes Vyvance will show as an amphetamine and Xanax (you also listed that as one of her meds) will show positive for Benzos...
> 
> If you didn't see her pee into a cup with your own eyes she could have scammed the test. Same with the hair test. She could pay someone to take it for her. I had an acquaintance that was an opiate addict and faked out all of his court ordered pee tests.


I'm sure this is something addicts discuss with suppliers. Passing a drug screen.


----------



## Workathome

longhorns said:


> WOW. She had a surgery in November with pain killers. I thought about this. Keep in mind though, this started way before that. FYI it was a stomach surgery for her to lose weight. Totally unnecessary in my view. She went from 210 to 140 now. She is 5' 7". I loved her either way. Didnt care. She looks great now but I never ever told her she needs to lose weight.


She changed her addiction from food to something else.


----------



## turnera

Here's the bottom line. She has an addictive personality.

Period.

If you can't command that she start attending REGULAR, CONSISTENT therapy, she will never become a decent spouse.

Period.


----------



## gouge_away

What surgeon performs GBS on a 210# woman, unless this was a tuck?


----------



## longhorns

gouge_away said:


> What surgeon performs GBS on a 210# woman, unless this was a tuck?


no tuck. that will be next. she is already talking about it. btw there are many surgeons that do that. it was eye opening. i said the same thing. she also hid the visits to the surgeon about this. I found the paperwork in sept 14 showing a surgery date. she told me leading up to it when they did the scope on her stomach it was for acid reflux. Little did i know at the time it was for the surgery to make sure it was OK. 

When I found the paperwork for the surgery and confronted her it was a huge fight. I couldnt believe she was even considering this without telling me. She just kept saying it is a private decision and it is ultimately for her so I have no say. it is her body. 

Am I giving you a clue to my reality?


----------



## longhorns

I am painting this horrible person though. She is an incredible mom. A good person in general. Very thoughtful. Very lovable. Kinda hard and opinionated which I like a lot. That is the crux of all this. I still love her so much. I guess I am stupid which led to this. Like 2 different people.

That's why all this is impossible for me to deal with mentally.


----------



## truster

Hidden plastic surgery??? This makes me think affair again, although there's evidence for either. With an impulsive enough person, could be both. You should really VAR the car.. This rabbit hole seems deep.


----------



## truster

longhorns said:


> I am painting this horrible person though. She is an incredible mom. A good person in general. Very thoughtful. Very lovable. Kinda hard and opinionated which I like a lot. That is the crux of all this. I still love her so much. I guess I am stupid which led to this. Like 2 different people.
> 
> That's why all this is impossible for me to deal with mentally.


You're a good guy with love to give, so your view is warm, but a lot of stories here involve a 'good, loving' mom doing all sorts of wild things to a completely surprised spouse. I wouldn't put too much stock in that idea right now.. Dig up the truth, the whole truth, then make decisions about what the full picture of your wife is then.


----------



## longhorns

truster said:


> Hidden plastic surgery??? This makes me think affair again, although there's evidence for either. With an impulsive enough person, could be both. You should really VAR the car.. This rabbit hole seems deep.


that is interesting. i installed on her phone with her permission the Life360 app before all this about a month ago. Our 10 yr old got a phone it was what i thought was a cool app to see where everyone in the family is located. I don't care where she knows where I am. Well, her drunk friend she loves told her that is a tracking app for her. She brought it up to me so I uninstalled it. She made a fairly big deal of it. I question if it was her "friend" saying that and not her really saying it. I said that to her. I didn't care at the time where she was at. Now I do. 

Should I ask her to put it back on her phone?

as i type this I sound like an idiot. at the time she made me feel controlling.


----------



## turnera

She may be a great mother. But she is a DISHONEST PARTNER.

And you are being a DOORMAT.

Her friend calls you out, AFTER SHE BLOWS $100,000, and you pull the app?


Who is the problem here?


----------



## longhorns

I will not lie though. At that time i asked her if i can install it I felt something was off for a while so it would've been good to see whats up. being honest. Not the reason i did it but once i found out about the app i thought it could make me feel better. I guess my gut was right about something up.


----------



## longhorns

turnera said:


> She may be a great mother. But she is a DISHONEST PARTNER.
> 
> And you are being a DOORMAT.
> 
> Her friend calls you out, AFTER SHE BLOWS $100,000, and you pull the app?
> 
> 
> Who is the problem here?


app was pulled a few days before i found this out. yes, i guess i am a doormat.


----------



## turnera

So what are you going to do about it?


----------



## longhorns

turnera said:


> So what are you going to do about it?


I am going to talk to her therapist and see what the hair test says. Then wait for therapy. Should be super insightful. Keep i mind we have 3 kids 10 and under and I dont take dissolving marriage lightly. Also, to my fault I still love her. I am like Reagan said "trust but verify" right now. I almost ended it on Sunday. Thought of my 3 little kids and how my parents got divorced when i was 12.


----------



## turnera

I'm not telling you to throw her away. Keep in mind that divorcing takes MONTHS, if not YEARS. In the meantime, she can do a LOT of waking up, after seeing YOU ready to walk away from her.


----------



## longhorns

BTW you guys are like some of my therapy. Let me express what I am feeling in the moment. I was a psychology minor which means nothing but I did learn a few things. Talking out things is healthy. A catharsis is always good.


----------



## turnera

Well, then, here's Psychology 101: 
We want what we can't easily obtain; we feel disdain for that which is easily given to us.

You want her to CARE about your marriage? Make it clear to her that SHE MIGHT LOSE YOU if she doesn't get off her butt and DESERVE her marriage.

Period.


----------



## longhorns

turnera said:


> Well, then, here's Psychology 101:
> We want what we can't easily obtain; we feel disdain for that which is easily given to us.
> 
> You want her to CARE about your marriage? Make it clear to her that SHE MIGHT LOSE YOU if she doesn't get off her butt and DESERVE her marriage.
> 
> Period.


i agree. i am in sales. when i tell a client I am not sure this is for you and walk away they want it more. this is what happened on sunday when i found her playing $ schemes again. Thats wasnt my tactic though. It was all emotional from the gut. I said to myself if i catch her doing anything like this again I am gone. I did and it was my gut reaction. It was the 1st time I felt like she kinda got I am gone. She cried from the heart like I've never thought she had. I caved and said let's wait until therapy. I still think that was right in the end. Although at that moment I was done. So much betrayal.


----------



## longhorns

Also, here is my problem. I burn super hot then it is out and I forgive too easy. I find myself as we speak doing that even though my brain tells me you need to remain angry at this.


----------



## JohnA

Hi longhorn,

Currently I live in FL. At the begining of every August I lay in a two week supply of pre-cooked heat and serve can food. A range of batteries, frist aid products, containers to hold water, blankets, rain gear, etc. It all goes into a closet and just sits there. Bottom line it would take me twenty minutes to fill the containers, load the car and hit the road. In the spring I donate the food and batteries. We have not had a hurricane in many years. The next one will be bad because people have stopped preparing for it. 

Your wife's behavior should be scarring the hell out of you. The missing money, the weight loss, the hiding things, the therapist, the prescription drugs all shout get ready. With out discussing it with her you need to see an attorney and put in place you and your kids survival plan. Topics should include the missing money, standard custody arrangements, what can be done to maximize then for them to be with you, and how you can keep the family home. I cannot emphasize how important it is to stay in the family home is. 

This is preparing for the worst, but keep working for the best. Longhorn you can not help her if you are not prepared for the worst.


----------



## JohnA

One possiblity not discussed yet is a MLC. Your last piece of info on weight and elective surgery raises the posdiblity that this is the cause. If so you are looking at a category 12 storm and I think the weather service only goes up to 5. I have read threads here on this subject and the actions of the spouse are beyond fiction.


----------



## longhorns

JohnA said:


> Hi longhorn,
> 
> Currently I live in FL. At the begining of every August I lay in a two week supply of pre-cooked heat and serve can food. A range of batteries, frist aid products, containers to hold water, blankets, rain gear, etc. It all goes into a closet and just sits there. Bottom line it would take me twenty minutes to fill the containers, load the car and hit the road. In the spring I donate the food and batteries. We have not had a hurricane in many years. The next one will be bad because people have stopped preparing for it.
> 
> Your wife's behavior should be scarring the hell out of you. The missing money, the weight loss, the hiding things, the therapist, the prescription drugs all shout get ready. With out discussing it with her you need to see an attorney and put in place you and your kids survival plan. Topics should include the missing money, standard custody arrangements, what can be done to maximize then for them to be with you, and how you can keep the family home. I cannot emphasize how important it is to stay in the family home is.
> 
> This is preparing for the worst, but keep working for the best. Longhorn you can not help her if you are not prepared for the worst.


I hear you. Totally. I am not stupid. I want to wait to couples therapy to see what happens. I owe that to my kids. Finances are now secured so that is done but won't get worse. I fear if I go to an atty then it is already all over in my mind. I gotta try to see if she can open up to what see what happens. I am not giving in to the guilt trip. 

Also, hopefully solo therapy will give me the insight what to do. I have to do this for our 3 young kids. The experience i had after my parent's divorce was horrible. 

I'm not a ***** but need to not parachute too soon.


----------



## longhorns

JohnA said:


> One possiblity not discussed yet is a MLC. Your last piece of info on weight and elective surgery raises the posdiblity that this is the cause. If so you are looking at a category 12 storm and I think the weather service only goes up to 5. I have read threads here on this subject and the actions of the spouse are beyond fiction.


the stealing started well before the surgery (year+).


----------



## 3Xnocharm

longhorns said:


> YES. *She is so offended I am making her do this. * I told her I saw your MD record after you stole 100K that said you are opiate dependent. We have to talk to her to understand what she meant.


Evidently she isnt offended enough! She could be spared all of this and just come clean about where the hell all that money went! All I can think of is that it must be something pretty damn bad.....


----------



## JohnA

When the stealing started is not the issue. A MLC starts slowly and builds up over time. 

As a sales person you know the importance of being prepared. 

The best place to deal with any crisis (objection) is from a place of strength (knowledge) seeing a lawyer is not betraying her. Do not let you or your children be rudderless in the worst case scenario.


----------



## Cynthia

longhorns said:


> Also, here is my problem. I burn super hot then it is out and I forgive too easy. I find myself as we speak doing that even though my brain tells me you need to remain angry at this.


I am the same as you said. I burn hot, then forgive easily. But I do not reconcile easily. It is one thing to forgive, but quite another to reconcile and still more to trust. It takes a long time to build trust, but only a moment to destroy it. 
I don't think I forgive too easily. Forgiveness is a key to healing and should be done quickly. When we forgive, it doesn't mean we trust or that everything is back to okay. It simply means that we give up retribution for what someone has done. This is different than seeking justice. Retribution is punishment. Justice is making sure that the person is held responsible for their actions, which is healthy.


----------



## kristin2349

longhorns said:


> I hear you. Totally. I am not stupid. I want to wait to couples therapy to see what happens. I owe that to my kids. Finances are now secured so that is done but won't get worse. I fear if I go to an atty then it is already all over in my mind. I gotta try to see if she can open up to what see what happens. I am not giving in to the guilt trip.
> 
> Also, hopefully solo therapy will give me the insight what to do. I have to do this for our 3 young kids. The experience i had after my parent's divorce was horrible.
> 
> I'm not a ***** but need to not parachute too soon.


You said above that finances are now secure. Have you placed a freeze on your credit in both of your names? You can do this by plaing a "fraud alert" wit all three credit agencies. What steps have you taken to protect the 401k that is in her name?


----------



## lucy999

longhorns said:


> Also, here is my problem. I burn super hot then it is out and I forgive too easy. I find myself as we speak doing that even though my brain tells me you need to remain angry at this.


Keep a journal of facts and feelings. When you feel like you're going to cave, read it. You need to keep the anger to propel you forward for now.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

JohnA said:


> When the stealing started is not the issue. A MLC starts slowly and builds up over time.
> 
> As a sales person you know the importance of being prepared.
> 
> The best place to deal with any crisis (objection) is from a place of strength (knowledge) seeing a lawyer is not betraying her. Do not let you or your children be rudderless in the worst case scenario.


I'm sorry, what is MLC? Drawing a blank.....


----------



## farsidejunky

Mid Life Crisis.


----------



## Hicks

Here's the thing. I would say it's 99% sure she spent the cash on drugs obtained from drug dealers. Drug users are manipulative liars. A classic drug user response to the doctor form you found is "that's a mistake"...... Drug users will lie lie lie even with evidence.

For now you should operate knowing she is addicted to opiates. You have evidence of this in disappearing money and a doctor's form. You also know the money was cash and you know for a fact that it was not spent on family things. Go with the facts and do nothing with the words that she says. A drug user will figure out how to scam a drug test. You should not be attempting to prove anything. She should be attempting to prove that she wants to be your wife and be part of your marriage.

What you should hold out for is one thing and one thing only, the truth. YOu have to steadfastly tell her that spending $95K cash on family things is a lie. You cannot remain married to her without the truth. Your job is not to trick or test the truth out of her, your job is to give her your condition or marriage and let her choose how to live.


NOw, operating with your evidence, do you want your children raised by a drug addict? I wouldn't. you should be meeting with a laywer on a strategy of divorcing, and getting your kids away from a drug addicted mother.

You are being manipulated. You are getting sucked into the vortex of her world with her counselor, drug testing, marital counseling. Let her rise up to the level of your world instead.

I would also cut off all her access to money, since you know she will steal it. The deal for her should be that your name goes on all the accounts, you cancel all joint credit cards, and agree on an amount of cash she can have per week.... A lady who wants to be married and has demonstrated a spending problem would surely agree to this reasonable mode of operating.


----------



## Lostinthought61

longhorns said:


> BTW you guys are like some of my therapy. Let me express what I am feeling in the moment. I was a psychology minor which means nothing but I did learn a few things. Talking out things is healthy. A catharsis is always good.


except we promise to not ask you...what was your relationship like with your mother. :wink2:


----------



## truster

longhorns said:


> that is interesting. i installed on her phone with her permission the Life360 app before all this about a month ago. Our 10 yr old got a phone it was what i thought was a cool app to see where everyone in the family is located. I don't care where she knows where I am. Well, her drunk friend she loves told her that is a tracking app for her. She brought it up to me so I uninstalled it. She made a fairly big deal of it. I question if it was her "friend" saying that and not her really saying it. I said that to her. I didn't care at the time where she was at. Now I do.
> 
> Should I ask her to put it back on her phone?
> 
> as i type this I sound like an idiot. at the time she made me feel controlling.


Don't keep asking her.. letting her know how and where you're looking will just help her hide. It's a good character trait to want to be that transparent with her, but currently she's playing a 'hide the truth' game with you, and you have to play it too to get that truth.

Check this post out, tons of useful information: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


----------



## turnera

longhorns said:


> Also, here is my problem. I burn super hot then it is out and I forgive too easy. I find myself as we speak doing that even though my brain tells me you need to remain angry at this.


My H has anger/negativity issues. You know, horrible one second and fun/loving the next. So it's been hard for me to stay upset with him. But the issues build up and up and up. My IC told me to write down everything bad on one sheet of paper so that, when times are good, I can SEE what it's really like living with him.

Write down what she's done to you, what the ramifications are, what you're stuck with, when she cries those crocodile tears you can read it and remember what you're stuck with because of her.

Not so you can leave her necessarily but so you can be stern with her.


----------



## JohnA

I thought it was mid life crisis.


----------



## kristin2349

Hicks said:


> Here's the thing. I would say it's 99% sure she spent the cash on drugs obtained from drug dealers. Drug users are manipulative liars. A classic drug user response to the doctor form you found is "that's a mistake"...... Drug users will lie lie lie even with evidence.
> 
> For now you should operate knowing she is addicted to opiates. You have evidence of this in disappearing money and a doctor's form. You also know the money was cash and you know for a fact that it was not spent on family things. Go with the facts and do nothing with the words that she says. A drug user will figure out how to scam a drug test. You should not be attempting to prove anything. She should be attempting to prove that she wants to be your wife and be part of your marriage.
> 
> What you should hold out for is one thing and one thing only, the truth. YOu have to steadfastly tell her that spending $95K cash on family things is a lie. You cannot remain married to her without the truth. Your job is not to trick or test the truth out of her, your job is to give her your condition or marriage and let her choose how to live.
> 
> 
> NOw, operating with your evidence, do you want your children raised by a drug addict? I wouldn't. you should be meeting with a laywer on a strategy of divorcing, and getting your kids away from a drug addicted mother.
> 
> You are being manipulated. You are getting sucked into the vortex of her world with her counselor, drug testing, marital counseling. Let her rise up to the level of your world instead.
> 
> I would also cut off all her access to money, since you know she will steal it. The deal for her should be that your name goes on all the accounts, you cancel all joint credit cards, and agree on an amount of cash she can have per week.... A lady who wants to be married and has demonstrated a spending problem would surely agree to this reasonable mode of operating.



:iagree:

Excellent advice! OP you should follow it to the letter.


----------



## ButtPunch

He needs to get hard evidence of the drug abuse. As in court worthy evidence. 
She has some addiction and if it's drugs it will be a major factor in the divorce. ie custody.

She clearly has an addiction of some sort. Drugs, opiates, gambling etc. Addicts are the
best liars in the world and I already see her trying to control the situation. I would definitely
stick to you both speaking with the doctor about why she checked opiate addiction. Do not let 
her weasel out of this one. 

Does she appear to be sick or in withdrawals? You can't just stop taking opioids.


----------



## Thor

longhorns said:


> Keep i mind *we have 3 kids 10 and under and I dont take dissolving marriage lightly*. Also, to my fault I still love her. I am like Reagan said "trust but verify" right now. I almost ended it on Sunday. *Thought of my 3 little kids and how my parents got divorced when i was 12*.


Kids are better off without an addict parent in the house. 

The only other option which seems at all likely is she is hiding money in preparation for divorce. In either case, your kids are better off with you doing whatever is necessary to get at the truth and to take action to protect the kids.


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## SecondTime'Round

ButtPunch said:


> Does she appear to be sick or in withdrawals? You can't just stop taking opioids.


Or is there someone else she could also be stealing money from to fuel her addiction?


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## kristin2349

ButtPunch said:


> He needs to get hard evidence of the drug abuse. As in court worthy evidence.
> She has some addiction and if it's drugs it will be a major factor in the divorce. ie custody.
> 
> She clearly has an addiction of some sort. Drugs, opiates, gambling etc. Addicts are the
> best liars in the world and I already see her trying to control the situation. I would definitely
> stick to you both speaking with the doctor about why she checked opiate addiction. Do not let
> her weasel out of this one.
> 
> *Does she appear to be sick or in withdrawals? You can't just stop taking opioids.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> She might be taking Suboxone to curb withdrawals and cravings. BUT not everyone dependent on opiates has a horrific time withdrawing. She has a prescription for Xanax and Ambien she could have done it with the aid of those drugs in two weeks and still kept functioning especially if she had Suboxone. My guess is she got some help since it shows on the form from her Dr.


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## Hardtohandle

The hair test just can't be faked like the urine test.. 

I was thinking something like Oxy but seen it came up negative in the urine test.. Let see what the hair test tells us.

Simply are you home enough to notice she is stoned/high/fvcked up ? Again people can just get high enough to stay even.. Think alcoholic sipping a beer through a straw.. They don't have enough money to get drunk so they use the straw to get quicker buzz.. 

I've seen people the use a half a bag a heroine just to get through the work day.. You can see they are a bit off, but unless you have dealt with it before you wouldn't get it.. Again they know they are strong enough at this moment in their lives not to get so high, but need something so they just don't get all strung out and get dope sick. 

Eventually they can't control it and it just gets worse.. So maybe your wife could be at that stage. Again maybe..

My ex wife did have a spending issue. $ 275.00 color and cut.. Large amounts of clothing for her and the kids.. Most hardly worn by the kids.. Matter of fact when she left I found a garbage bag with cloths still with tags on them.. They were for my oldest but he out grew them so my youngest now wears them.. My youngest now has soooo many cloths I could have him wear stuff once and throw it out.. 

The cash thing makes sense since there is no paper trail. 

But I don't need to tell you there is some sort of disconnect here that she would think this is okay.. Again my Ex wife did this until it just didn't fill that empty hole she had in her and THEN SHE BEGAN TO CHEAT...


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## JohnA

Hello hardtohandel,

I was hoping you would post here. Affair care and Kristen and others posted excellent posts with links on different drug.test. But, I was hoping your backgounf and day tp day exprtiebce with the NYPD would help longhorn. Hope your closing sentence (then she...) hits home. 

Always good to read your posts.


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## weightlifter

If this marriage survives, drunk friend gets punted for distance.


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## Chuck71

Longhorns..... opiate addicts "think" they can balance between W / Ds and being lit like a kite.

For this to have extended this long.... she is escalating. An addict thinks they have everything under control

even days before they hit bottom. She buys a dress for $100, returns it... most any store now 

only gives in store credit. She sells the $100 gift card to a friend for $60-70 and now she has cash.

Dealers only accept cash.... well... and this is very possible (I hope it isn't), an addict will do ANYTHING

for a hit. Dealers give less dope since no cash but sex. It could very well lead to dealer

pimping her out for cash from "john" and he gives her the high she wants. I'm not saying she could be

sneaking behind dumpsters..... she is a mother, W, professional. These woman perform in / out calls.....

behind closed doors. Snoop to see if she is on BC pills.... "johns" rarely use condoms.

Check in between her toes, under her arm, if she has long hair... back of neck, back of calf muscle....

H2H will back me up here...... addicts eventually advance from swallowing pills, to crushing them, to

converting pills to liquid and injecting them. If she is at this stage.... it is very possible she is

meeting johns...... very few dealers will keep a female addict to himself.... they want CASH.

When one injects.... after awhile it gets hard to find a vein. The vein actually appears to "move away"

from the needle. Personal experience..... no, I despise needles, even when RN is drawing my blood.

In college.... to help me write term papers (back then I could not write to save my life), I would take 

4-5x recommended dosage of opiates. It wired me up and I could at least, write a passing paper.

As any red blooded college student, I put off doing these papers until a few days before they were due.

One year.... I had two due, back to back days. First day, good to go, exactly as planned.

Next night.... repeated actions and.........I felt like death, listless, fatigued, unable to concentrate.....

I felt as bad that night as I did good the night before. I never took them in college again unless I

could space them out at least two weeks. That is how bad it was.

I was lucky...... the only thing I have ever craved was a cigarette and I'm about to cut that out too.

Hang in there.....


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## turnera

blech.

I thank my stars that I read Go Ask Alice in my early years and scared myself straight. I just assumed that if I tried anything even one time, I'd never be able to quit - so I never tried anything.


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## farsidejunky

turnera said:


> blech.
> 
> I thank my stars that I read Go Ask Alice in my early years and scared myself straight. I just assumed that if I tried anything even one time, I'd never be able to quit - so I never tried anything.


Very good book, but it did not work for me... I had to learn most things the hard way...


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## Chuck71

I am so thankful pop warned me about the schit side of "highs" ..... the good times person at 11pm

and the guy gasping for air and over the toilet or in the shower at 5AM

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.... he wasn't a science major and never went past HS


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## Tasorundo

Results from hair test back?


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## happyman64

Did you ever put a VAR in her car under the seat?

I would. Just to hear her take on what is going on if she is talking to friends about the situation.


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## Aspydad

Just saw this post and I feel for you!! Your wife has committed financial infidelity which to me is just as bad has having an affair. The women you knew is gone - she has broken your trust. But, you CAN RECOVER!! I do see that you LOVE HER WITH ALL YOUR HEART - and if you arer like me - would give your life for HER!! SO - do you think you can forgive her??

I do know the feeling - my wife did this to me twice in our early marriage - first time small - 5K on a credit card - but, if you convert to today's money - more like 10-15K - this was back in 1989 when we had only been married for a year. She had a shopping addiction - her job was located right next to a fancy mall and she would buy things - I guess to relieve stress. Only reason I found out is because she had to come clean as we were applying for our first mortgage. I was like Wow!! - that was stupid - why hide things from me? Even with the debt, we qualified for the loan so life went on - it took about two years to pay it down back then - we were double income and no kids so it was very doable. Then, about six years later - she did the same damn thing!! But this time, she had just quit work and we were just adjusting to living on my income only - we had two young kids under 3 years old - I was just devastated!!! Luckily I found out - she screwed up and bounced a check from her SECRET checking account - the credit card company called me to give us a chance to send in a good check so as to not get a service charge - problem is - I never used that card - so questioned why there was any balance - and the lady advised me that we had a $12K balance on the card!! I still remember that day - one of the worst in my life!! Betrayed!!!

My wife sounds very similar to yours - she also has a higher level degree - a masters degree - in Accounting!! i let her handle all of the bill paying - I eman she is an accountant I am an Engineer - makes sense - no?? So would you not think that she could budget money?? That is what shocked me most. But, I realize now - that she did not want to budget as she liked to buy things to ease her pain / depression. My wife is also very outgoing - when she walks into the room it lights up - people are just drawn to her. But, she also likes to be in charge which can be a good thing sometimes - but, when it comes to handling our finances she just did not want to have to get my permission to make purchases - so in this case - a bad thing.

While my wife did not have a prescription drug problem - she did have some chemical imbalance - maybe improper diet?? Maybe, pressure from having two young babies?? To this day I think she still has it - but, she is much better as she now exercises and eats very well. Also, she now works again - she stayed home for 16 years with our kids - worked good while they were young but she just got bored once they were all in school - we now have three kids -the youngest is now 16 and she works.

While your financial loss is much higher - you still seem young (I guess mid 30s?) so you have a very long time to make it all back and then some.

My wife was very upset when I confronted her the second time - I was just so pissed!! Betrayed!! I told her that either she turn all financial control over to me, or we were done!!! She tried to resist - but, I told her you have done this twice now and it is a damn good thing I caught you when I did - no way on our one income was she ever going to pay that off without me knowing!! I was NOT going to live spending more than we make and be broke or bankrupt!! I wanted to send my kids to college and give them a head start in life and SHE WAS NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT FROM THEM OR ME!!

Here is what I did to get her and our finances under control:

* I did a credit check for both of us so I knew exactly what we owed. I did this once a year back then - but, I do it once a month now just to protect against fraud. I also researched and got access to all investment accounts - my wife also had a 401K plan and a stock ownership in the company that she had worked for - they had a stock purchasing plan - they were a large bank in Minnesota - I wonder if your wife works for the same bank?? (this should be done by everyone not just people with wives who cannot budget - YOU were at fault here just as I was)

* I wrote down all of our credit card accounts - and once a week I would check the balances. (Still do - but now I have two daughters in college on my credit cards)

* I took over all bank accounts - closed all accounts that were just in my wife's name - NO MORE SECRET ACCOUNTS!

* I opened a separate account for my wife (you can have more than one checking account at your bank) - to be used only for food - I transferred money from the main account were my paycheck went. I took over the payment of all bills. I still do this today - 20 years later.

* All shopping for capital goods (clothes, household items, etc.) was done jointly. If she ever did go alone - NO CREDIT CARDS!! CASH ONLY for HER!! I bet we did this for 10 years - now, I am quite well off financially so I do let her go shopping - BUT, I check her credit card every day online (note I say card - she only has ONE)

* For at least five years - All Food shopping was done together - and we stayed within the budget set. We still do this today - mainly because I just like going with her and spending time. even though our NET WORTH is way higher than it used to be - we still have a food budget.

* I started to track every dollar spent - still do to this today. So much easier than back 20 years ago - except for food, most items we charge on a credit card (we get cash back on every charge) so I can categorize every dollar spent. I created a spread sheet that not only gives me a monthly spending summary - but a yearly one so I know exactly where I am with regards to the budget.

* We pay our savings first every month - we have investments and the money comes out of the main checking account - just like paying a mortgage except it goes towards our retirement - we NEVER TOUCH THIS MONEY!! NO EXCUSES!!! we have done this for over 20 years and it is compound growth is just an amazing thing. 

* I have put in 12% to my 401K for the last 10 years - I used to just put in 6% which is what my company match was on - but, decided to double that - mainly for the tax savings.

Now - my wife has slipped a few times - what I mean by that is she (and my daughters) will buy things without my input - but, I find out the next day because I check the card!! I do have to real her in sometimes - I just ask her - how do you know that we have the money in our account to pay for that??? And she will admit that she just assumes. (note: even though she works as well - her check comes into the same main account and I handle all money) When she does this unplanned spending thing- it triggers me - I remember back to the betrayal - and it HURTS STILL!! I do not throw that in her face though - I DO FORGIVE HER BUT I WILL NEVER FORGET - I just let her know that she is setting a bad example when she goes out and spends like that with our children - they need to know that when something is bought for them - that we planed the expense - otherwise they will find themselves in the same boat that she was in without being able to budget. 

Some people here will say that I am too controlling with the finances - but, actually my wife wants nothing to do with them - financial worry TRIGGERS HER!! She just cannot handle the stress of worrying about money.

Good luck to you!!


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## SecondTime'Round

How are things @longhorns? Any updates?


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## SecondTime'Round

Any updates???


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## Mrs Chai

Been dropping in here the last few weeks hoping for an update. How's things going?


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## happyman64

Hello.... Hello....Is there anyone home Longhorn?


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## MJJEAN

Aspydad said:


> * I wrote down all of our credit card accounts - and once a week I would check the balances. (Still do - *but now I have two daughters in college on my credit cards*)


Happy Halloween, folks! That's the scariest thing I've seen, read, or heard today!:laugh:


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