# Is divorce the next step? Please, help.



## SadDaisy

Please, help, is divorce my next step?
I am 37, in a relationship for almost 17 years, of which for 13 years we have been married. We have one child.
We met while I was still in college and he had his first job at an insurance company. We had lots of fun together. He was a runner, and I joined him. We traveled a lot, went hiking and skiing. We both love to cook and gradually learned appreciation for good wine. We seemed to have been made for each other. I started working for the local school system after my graduation. We had a big wedding and were doomed to be happy. We then had a baby. Several years later, I went to law school. It was exhausting, with long hours, papers, deadlines. Our son was in daycare and my parents helped us a lot, including financial help. The relationship started falling apart when I started the school. We didn’t have much time to travel or do things together. All my free time I spent with my child. A lot of times, my husband was not home; he was “running appointments” 2-3 evening s a week, usually was home by 9 though, so I do not suspect he was running around on me. He’d come home smelling of alcohol sometimes, stating, the client and him had a beer. My mom didn’t mind babysitting when needed. My husband started drinking more and more frequently. He worked mostly out of the house, because he chose to; he does have an office. I have never seen him working: every time I’d come home, I would find him on the coach in front of TV, most times with a beer. All of the running, biking, doing stuff together dissipated. I got a job at a law firm in our town. It was a great 8 m to 5 pm job with weekends off. I wanted to get back to our travelling, thinking now we had means and time to do that. I came to find out that he ran up credit card debt galore (I knew he had some, but I didn’t think it would be this much). He said he had to use credit cards while I was in school and not bringing in any income. I must say, he was the one doing grocery shopping and him and my mom would cook for us. I cooked on the weekends. He had the child in the extended care, though he was supposedly “working” at home”. He refused to take him to extracurricular activities, claiming he was too busy. Our son joined the swim team and my dad took him to the pool three times a week. But the husband just couldn’t find time to spend with the child. My husband also started making negative comments about me. I have gained 25 lbs since we have met, but I am still a size 8, I am not obese. I do wear makeup and I wear nice clothes to work, noblesse oblige. His comments included me looking fat, being snobbish, career-oriented and not wanting to build the family up etc. The verbal abuse has been especially profound when he has had a beer or two (which happens almost every day now). I asked him to spend time together, go on vacation with our son or without him, suggested having a “honeymoon” at a ski resort. He has no desire to do that. I asked him to train for a 5K together- he just shook his head. I continued to work, come home, try to be a normal wife. I make dinner at least three times a week. We have home-cooked breakfast daily, simple oatmeal or egs during week days, and I make Belgian waffles on Saturdays. My son loves a big waffle with whipped cream and strawberries. The husband still frequently goes to the neighborhood coffee shop several times a week. He has buddies who come there, too, and like to shoot the breeze. My husband has always found something wrong with my friends- either the friend or the friend’s spouse was no good. He had some bar buddies, who he didn’t really invite to our home. We don’t associate with many people. He is very nice when we are out, chats with waitresses, cashiers at Walmart, people in line at stores. He is very friendly with our son’s teachers, bakes cookies and takes them to school and the afterschool care. He is not very friendly with me at all. 

About a year and a half ago, I was sent for a meeting in New York. There I met this man, a charismatic, handsome, renowned lawyer. After a dinner, he was particularly nice to me and volunteered to walk me to the hotel. I was going to take a taxi, as the hotel was a ways away, but Mr. X suggested that we walk a bit and may be then catch a taxi. He turned out to be intellectual, well read, and we happened to share common interest in one particular literature trend (Of note, my husband doesn’t read). It was a two hour walk. We were not drunk. He tried to kiss me by the hotel, and I practically ran away from him. After the trip we kept in touch and our e-mails just made sense. This person was interested in me, in my life, in how I feel about things. I don’t know if I fell in love, but I certainly had strong feelings for this man. We met again out of town and we had sex.
I was terrified. I could not understand how I allowed myself to fall so low and let it happen. I am married. Good Catholic girls don’t do this. I ran to the church (not my church). I talked to the priest for an hour. I broke off all communication with Mr. X. He kept sending emails for several months, but I have not responded. I had to wiggle out to going to New York for a follow up work meeting. 
My husband kept on calling me the “b” word, kept drinking, kept having nothing to do with our son, kept “working” from home bringing in minimal income. I suggested counseling. He said, “You have a problem, you are the one who needs the counselor”. When I bring up his drinking, he yells at me. On one occasion he quit drinking for a week. He called me nag and said: “See, I don’t have to drink, I just like a drink once in a while”. “Once in a while” is about five nights a week. I am not looking forward to Saturday cookouts anymore, because he gets so drunk, that it disgusts me. I don’t go anywhere and stay home doing things with my son in the evenings. Even if I went out with a co-worker or a friend for dinner, I would just worry about my little boy being around his drunken father, which is not a pretty sight. He has been to his doctor, because I suggested that he may have depression, but the doctor just ran some bloodwork and told him he was healthy. (The husband didn’t let me go to this appointment with him, but I know he did go, as I have a copy of the bloodwork).
I feel guilty about what I have done, even though it has been more than a year.
I have been promoted. I have several offers for nice jobs where I would make double of what I am making now. My parents are willing to move, but the husband is not. He has no good reason not to move. His income is minimal and we are still paying off my student loans and his credit cards. I have tried to talk to him many times. He argues that I have become this “high level lawyer” ( which I am not), am very demanding, flashy and am into myself. I drive a 2008 minivan. I don’t have expensive jewelry. I don’t know what he means by “flashy”. I do his laundry, clean the house; I cook almost every breakfast and dinner. What else can I do? I have studied relationships (psychology minor). I had training on people’s interactions in law school. He has no idea about what happened to me and Mr. X. I am not looking to do that ever again and am ashamed of myself for doing that. But this incident made me feel that I can be liked by a successful smart man. That I am not a used up piece of junk like I feel around my husband.
I confronted him with a divorce, and he said, “Go ahead and file. You know how to do this and you will rip me off”. 
I don’t know what to do.


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## BetrayedDad

Tell him you cheated and let him decide whether to divorce you or not.


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## SadDaisy

So, it would be an "at fault divorce"? No way.


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## MEM2020

He seems chronically angry at you. 

Likely because he has not found a way to be even a decent provider. Or even a decent parent. And that seems to be a combination of:
- Lack of ambition
- Fondness for alcohol

Your success makes him look like an abject failure in comparison. 

You can't change him. And he will always feel bad about himself in your presence. It's why he puts you down so relentlessly. 

This isn't fixable because he doesn't want to fix himself. 

You ought to take the new job and move. The courts won't give him custody due to his drinking. 

Next move: talk to a good divorce lawyer





SadDaisy said:


> So, it would be an "at fault divorce"? No way.


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## aine

Can't you think of the things you need to discuss, then sit him down and talk calmly.

You have to tell him about your affair, you cannot hide this from him. It might be the catalyst to change or end things.

What does you husband actually do for living?

Ask him what is he actually working on, what is his income? Tell him he has to be responsible for certain household exps. Sounds like he might be depressed, alcohol is his medicine.
Sounds like you have moved up and on in our career and manage to keep house and all together, you do not really need him and he knows that
That is a huge blow to any man's self esteem, tell him you know that but if he wants the marriage to continue, things have to change.
He has to go to counseling individually and together (MC) otherwise you have no future.

Exactly what does he bring to the table in your opinion?


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## SadDaisy

Thanks for responding.
I will not tell him about the "affair". It was more of a one night stand which I am ashamed of and don't even want to think about and will never do again as long as I am married.
He sells property and casualty, insurance stuff.
We have a joint bank account. Looking at it, he spends money at Kroger, Walmart, gas stations, coffee shops. I think he takes cash out when he does grocery shopping.
I have tried to sit him down and have a conversation. He sighs, blames me for bugging him, calls me annoying, tells me to look for the problem inside myself. Tells me that I would do anything to not let him watch the news.
I have not put him down. I don't care that I make more than him and I like being the woman in the marriage. Household chores are not chores for me, they are part of life. He can be helpful when he chooses to, but that happens very infrequently now. I want to feel cared for and he is indifferent.

He refused to go to counseling. We have talked to the priest at our church many months ago. But he is very nice, polite and friendly with people around us. He was a happy and charming man with the priest. He said he feels bad that in my opinion there is something wrong with the marriage, that he is happy. He said that I exaggerate his drinking because I am an insecure person. He said that of course he loves his son, but he is just very busy at work, has variable working hours, has evening appointments with clients and is tired when he gets home from work. There came a mention about my fixed and easy working hours.

There is no reasoning with this man.


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## NWCooper

Well it definitely sounds broken and he is not willing to take any steps to fix it, so I would say yes that divorce is the next step.

Is there any love at all between you two, any at all? I didn't hear any mention of it, so I am guessing not. Don't raise your son that way, he deserves better.


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## afab

DONT TELL HIM ABOUT THE AFFAIR. Separate your bank accounts. What do your parents think you should do?
You both have debts try to sort them out separately.


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## jdawg2015

1. I think you owe it too him to confess about the affair. That's a major betrayal. Karma is a bi___

2. You need to sort the pieces bit by bit. When you started school I doubt you guys prepared for what was to follow in terms of career, time, etc.

While you were career chasing your husband started to feel you were gone and disengaged. Add the booze etc and this is what you have.


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## EVG39

Look we can all sit here and speculate all day as to why he changed, but changed he has. The only person who knows why is him. And the only person who can change him is him. And right now he appears to be unmotivated to change. He has so far refused counseling. I frankly don't know how you can not go forward with a divorce. He is being neither a good husband or good father right now. 
Maybe the filing of a divorce will be the shock to his system that will make him get up and fix himself. If often is but maybe not. regardless then you can move on with your life. Inertia is not working for you or him so I don't see that you have much to lose by moving forward. You deserve better.


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## cdbaker

Eh, I'm surprised I'm saying this, but I wouldn't tell him about the affair either, *yet.*

Why? Because it sounds like the marriage has enough problems as it is right now without it, though you should realize that the affair (yes it's an affair, not a ONS) absolutely does impact your view of the marriage negatively. Getting that unrealistic glimpse of a potential alternate relationship is going to make it impossible for you to have an unbiased view of your husband.

Anyways, I think you have to find out if your husband loves you and your marriage enough to fight for it. I know you've asked him to do counseling with you before and have tried to explain to him the various issues that you are unhappy about, but I wonder if his responses would change if you were to make clear to him how serious this situation has become. That if these issues aren't corrected right away, then you are absolutely going to file for divorce. I know he said "go ahead and file" but I wonder if he really realized how serious you are about it? I'd say you should try giving him a little wake-up call by sitting him down and explaining as directly as possible (coldly, even) that you're unhappy, and you absolutely have to see him commit to working on these things with you right now or you're going to move on with your life without him. Make it clear he has a choice.

If he still refuses to participate, refuses to commit, then I'd say go ahead and file for divorce. That's part two of the wake-up call, just in case he thought you were bluffing. You already know that divorces take a long time, so during that time, with your husband now realizing you're serious, you'll get to see if he finally decides you are worth fighting for. If he doesn't, then you'll know that divorce is the right option, and I see no need to tell him about the affair, ever.

If he doesn't wake up and decide to give the marriage some real effort, even begrudgingly, then make sure you hold him to it. He has to set the appointment with the marriage counselor, he has to show up and participate, be honest and acknowledge his faults while you do the same, etc. Then if the healing process is going well, then I'd say you should reveal the affair to the counselor first and get some advice on how/when to hare that information with your husband. Ultimately if the marriage can/will be saved, then you will owe it to him to tell him.


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## Marduk

Please, don't take this the wrong way, but I've seen it happen.

How much of the affair was a result of your marriage and how much is your portrayal of your marriage the result of your affair?

I ask because I've seen firsthand what it's like to be in an "awesome, you mean everything to me!" marriage that after an affair begins, becomes "we were never good together and you're terrible to me!"


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## EnjoliWoman

The OP says how perfect things were and even that they were fine until the excessive drinking started. 

It seems the OP 'owns' the EA/PA. While I think it should be brought to light/full disclosure if they reconcile, nothing will come of it if he doesn't even want to try to work things out. 

I realize you are in a bind as you need to decide about the job and move AND your marriage all at once. Would he reconsider moving with you? Maybe if he were away from the friends and it became you two against the world again like when you were young, you could start over.


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## BetrayedDad

OK... so by some "miracle", OP gets her husband to sober up, move to where ever and they mend the relationship. So when exactly does she drop the affair bomb on him? After she fixes everything and lulls him into a false sense of security? 

Obviously, she's going to start saying to herself, "Well things are going SO well I don't want to ruin it over a 'mistake'"... Because that makes perfect sense to her. I too sometimes trip and fall into women's vaginas. It's a mistake... honestly!

Please, this marriage is already in the toilet. NOW is the time to get it ALL out in the open. Then go from there with both parties knowing ALL the facts. Anything else, is false "R" and proactive deception.


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## Mrtruth

Lmao I felt bad went to my church confessed to the priest but the one person even god would say she has to confess to she refuses......so no you are not sorry you cheated. So why are you here other than to try and find people to justify your affair?

Yeah your husband sucks and is responsible for50% of the marriage problems but you are 100% responsible for cheating...commiting one of what God says is a great sin and you have no taken responsibility for it. You are on here saying what your husband needs to do to change and save your marriage but you will not tell him about the affair. 

It takes 2 to save a marriage yet you only want him to. Say he changes to the perfect husband?? What then? You are still a cheater and a liar! And he can't change when you won't! You may have forgave yourself for cheating but God hasn't!!! God will not forgive you until you confess to your husband. You don't want to because it will hurt you in a divorce.... Again not sorry you did it only thinking about yourself.

Divorce your husband you both are messed up and there is no hope of saving the marriage because you BOTH are to messed up to change.


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## Buddy400

SadDaisy said:


> Please, help, is divorce my next step?
> I am 37, in a relationship for almost 17 years, of which for 13 years we have been married. We have one child.
> We met while I was still in college and he had his first job at an insurance company. We had lots of fun together. He was a runner, and I joined him. We traveled a lot, went hiking and skiing. We both love to cook and gradually learned appreciation for good wine. We seemed to have been made for each other. I started working for the local school system after my graduation. We had a big wedding and were doomed to be happy. We then had a baby. Several years later, I went to law school. It was exhausting, with long hours, papers, deadlines. Our son was in daycare and my parents helped us a lot, including financial help. The relationship started falling apart when I started the school. We didn’t have much time to travel or do things together. All my free time I spent with my child. A lot of times, my husband was not home; he was “running appointments” 2-3 evening s a week, usually was home by 9 though, so I do not suspect he was running around on me. He’d come home smelling of alcohol sometimes, stating, the client and him had a beer. My mom didn’t mind babysitting when needed. My husband started drinking more and more frequently. He worked mostly out of the house, because he chose to; he does have an office. I have never seen him working: every time I’d come home, I would find him on the coach in front of TV, most times with a beer. All of the running, biking, doing stuff together dissipated. I got a job at a law firm in our town. It was a great 8 m to 5 pm job with weekends off. I wanted to get back to our travelling, thinking now we had means and time to do that. I came to find out that he ran up credit card debt galore (I knew he had some, but I didn’t think it would be this much). He said he had to use credit cards while I was in school and not bringing in any income. I must say, he was the one doing grocery shopping and him and my mom would cook for us. I cooked on the weekends. He had the child in the extended care, though he was supposedly “working” at home”. He refused to take him to extracurricular activities, claiming he was too busy. Our son joined the swim team and my dad took him to the pool three times a week. But the husband just couldn’t find time to spend with the child. My husband also started making negative comments about me. I have gained 25 lbs since we have met, but I am still a size 8, I am not obese. I do wear makeup and I wear nice clothes to work, noblesse oblige. His comments included me looking fat, being snobbish, career-oriented and not wanting to build the family up etc. The verbal abuse has been especially profound when he has had a beer or two (which happens almost every day now). I asked him to spend time together, go on vacation with our son or without him, suggested having a “honeymoon” at a ski resort. He has no desire to do that. I asked him to train for a 5K together- he just shook his head. I continued to work, come home, try to be a normal wife. I make dinner at least three times a week. We have home-cooked breakfast daily, simple oatmeal or egs during week days, and I make Belgian waffles on Saturdays. My son loves a big waffle with whipped cream and strawberries. The husband still frequently goes to the neighborhood coffee shop several times a week. He has buddies who come there, too, and like to shoot the breeze. My husband has always found something wrong with my friends- either the friend or the friend’s spouse was no good. He had some bar buddies, who he didn’t really invite to our home. We don’t associate with many people. He is very nice when we are out, chats with waitresses, cashiers at Walmart, people in line at stores. He is very friendly with our son’s teachers, bakes cookies and takes them to school and the afterschool care. He is not very friendly with me at all.
> 
> About a year and a half ago, I was sent for a meeting in New York. There I met this man, a charismatic, handsome, renowned lawyer. After a dinner, he was particularly nice to me and volunteered to walk me to the hotel. I was going to take a taxi, as the hotel was a ways away, but Mr. X suggested that we walk a bit and may be then catch a taxi. He turned out to be intellectual, well read, and we happened to share common interest in one particular literature trend (Of note, my husband doesn’t read). It was a two hour walk. We were not drunk. He tried to kiss me by the hotel, and I practically ran away from him. After the trip we kept in touch and our e-mails just made sense. This person was interested in me, in my life, in how I feel about things. I don’t know if I fell in love, but I certainly had strong feelings for this man. We met again out of town and we had sex.
> I was terrified. I could not understand how I allowed myself to fall so low and let it happen. I am married. Good Catholic girls don’t do this. I ran to the church (not my church). I talked to the priest for an hour. I broke off all communication with Mr. X. He kept sending emails for several months, but I have not responded. I had to wiggle out to going to New York for a follow up work meeting.
> My husband kept on calling me the “b” word, kept drinking, kept having nothing to do with our son, kept “working” from home bringing in minimal income. I suggested counseling. He said, “You have a problem, you are the one who needs the counselor”. When I bring up his drinking, he yells at me. On one occasion he quit drinking for a week. He called me nag and said: “See, I don’t have to drink, I just like a drink once in a while”. “Once in a while” is about five nights a week. I am not looking forward to Saturday cookouts anymore, because he gets so drunk, that it disgusts me. I don’t go anywhere and stay home doing things with my son in the evenings. Even if I went out with a co-worker or a friend for dinner, I would just worry about my little boy being around his drunken father, which is not a pretty sight. He has been to his doctor, because I suggested that he may have depression, but the doctor just ran some bloodwork and told him he was healthy. (The husband didn’t let me go to this appointment with him, but I know he did go, as I have a copy of the bloodwork).
> I feel guilty about what I have done, even though it has been more than a year.
> I have been promoted. I have several offers for nice jobs where I would make double of what I am making now. My parents are willing to move, but the husband is not. He has no good reason not to move. His income is minimal and we are still paying off my student loans and his credit cards. I have tried to talk to him many times. He argues that I have become this “high level lawyer” ( which I am not), am very demanding, flashy and am into myself. I drive a 2008 minivan. I don’t have expensive jewelry. I don’t know what he means by “flashy”. I do his laundry, clean the house; I cook almost every breakfast and dinner. What else can I do? I have studied relationships (psychology minor). I had training on people’s interactions in law school. He has no idea about what happened to me and Mr. X. I am not looking to do that ever again and am ashamed of myself for doing that. But this incident made me feel that I can be liked by a successful smart man. That I am not a used up piece of junk like I feel around my husband.
> I confronted him with a divorce, and he said, “Go ahead and file. You know how to do this and you will rip me off”.
> I don’t know what to do.


Dump him


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## JohnA

First, the other man is not an option. You got played. Only losers get involed with married women. At best he is only capable of a 90 day fantasty relationship in which both partners project qualities of their fantasy mate onto each other. While your actions say one thing, your words say another. Look at the adjectives you used to describe the OM and your H. It reads like a script for a cheesee movie of the week on lifetime, 

Your husband: When I hear a racist comment I do not think bigot. Instead it brings out the predator in me, I think Looss....Er!!! What weakness are you hiding. 90 present of the time when I hear derogatory comments I believe they come from an individual trying to achieve a measure if self estem by denigrating others. 

I think your husbands comments fit this mode. He has wondered for a while why are still with him. Go back and read your description of him and the OM. His actions to date can be seen as a self fulling prophecy. 

I suggest you continue the NC with the dirt bag. Demand a separation with counseling and strick guidlines on money, time spent together, time spent with child and above all else no comparison shopping. No matter what he says you respond "you don't think I love but I do". Send this massage first thing in the AM and at last thing in the PM. Be where you are suppose to be 24 seven. 

Finally I think MarDuc is spot on.


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## NoChoice

OP,
This may not be a fair question to ask an attorney but how much do you value honesty? Your H does seem to be fighting some demons but cheating and then hiding it is not the way to help. I know you say it validated you but is the attention of a man of low character and even less moral fiber really that big of a boost. In any event, to keep this hidden is to weaken further an already crumbling foundation. You asked if D was the next step. Do you want it to be?

If you are now contemplating D then why not tell your H of the tryst and let the events unfold. If you do not want to D and I mean really do not want to then you must engage your H and get help. He has some underlying issues that must be dealt with if the marriage is to survive. They must be exposed and addressed. He is currently on a path to self destruction and if there is to be a future, you must find out why. You should realize that this will include total honesty and you will need to disclose your indiscretion as part of the rebuilding process. Not doing so would jeopardize any attempts at honest R.

This is all assuming that your H can be reasoned with and would actually want to change direction and make the marriage better. If he does not the D may be the only next step. I wish you good fortune.


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## Evinrude58

My thoughts:
You had what you describe as a great relationship at one time. I think it's worth working on to try it again. The only thing that might shock him into fixing his part is for you to move out and file for divorce. If that doesn't change his attitude, nothing will. 
However, I have to ask...... Do you love your husband? I am wondering if you do because once a person lets themselves so easily fall in love with another man, and I believe you did, I think they fall out of love with their husband and it's extremely hard to ever get it back, if not impossible. It was definitely not a "one night stand" as you said, it was an affair. If you truly stopped all contact with him, then I think you are probably a person of character at heart. I DO NOT think it would be a good idea to tell him about the affair if you want to stay married to him, but if you want a divorce I think it's only fair that it get told. You do not respect your husband anymore, and with the affair, you really showed him you neither respect, nor love him. If you stay with your husband and are happy, take this secret to your grave. It will only crush his heart if you tell him. Don't try to release yourself from the guilt of this by telling him and asking for his forgiveness. It will make you feel better, and absolutely kill him inside. That's not fair. It's your cross to bear.
To say that it's an "at fault divorce" if you admit to cheating, I think is not right. YOu did cheat and deserve the consequences of that. You can always tell him and lie about it in court, if you don't mind being a liar and a cheat. Then he will know how low you were, and not feel so badly about the divorce. After all, he doesn't want it. You do. Let him go with as little pain as possible.
Also, the wealthy lawyer with the nice demeanor and good looks: If he was a person of character, he would not try to develop a relationship with a married woman. I'll bet you are not the first woman this man has done this with.
JMO


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## SadDaisy

Thank you all so much for taking time to tell me your thoughts.
Good point about “the chicken or the egg”. I think, years ago I realized our relationship was terrible, that we didn’t love each other anymore and tried to approach him to fix it, asked him to go on a trip, to go to counseling. I got nowhere with my attempts. I was not vague about what was bothering me, but I was not offensive either. I didn’t attack him; I simply tried to tell him what was lacking. I know how to sweeten a conversation. Of course, I approach with a positive thought first. As far as wife’s responsibilities, I never avoided those. The meals are cooked, the house is cleaned and I am available in the bed.
I have not forgiven myself for what I have done. I think this is part of the reason why I am still with my husband. I feel guilty. At the same time I wonder, how many women live in loveless marriages with the husband wiping his feet on the wife, while he has nothing to show for himself. What would it take to fix this kind of marriage or to get out of it? Another man giving you attention is a pretty strong wake up call. Feelings took over and, generally an insightful person, I was caught in the dirty game. I’m not displacing and not relinquishing the responsibility for my actions. I am not looking to do this ever again. Consciousness is eating me from the inside. It is not a pleasant feeling.
I tried to talk to him again last night. Nothing has changed. I am a nag, I cannot be happy and have to ***** about him. He is very busy at work. I don’t let him rest at home. I have everything a woman could possibly want- a husband of many years (yes, that was the first thing on the list of what a woman can possibly want), a house, a job, a nice vehicle, we ( we!) have money in the bank and decent credit scores. He actually was sober last night. I brought up vacation again, but is response was, the beach season is over (when did we ever go to the beach?) and the ski season has not really started yet. My suggestion of just getting in the car and driving to see the country and the fall was not taken with excitement. He gets enough driving every day. There is a retort to everything I say.

Yes, Betrayed dad, I am one of those who cheated on their husband and there is no forgiveness for that. Is that all you see in this story? Is there any way you can look at it not from a betrayeddad point of view, but from a view point of a not so old and not ugly woman with a potential, a brain, a person who likes being a wife, having a family and is desperately trying to fix the situation? If I didn’t mention the affair, I am sure everyone would be taking my side. But I had to be honest


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## EleGirl

I disagree with those who say that you need to tell him, that you owe it to him.

There is only one person you can change, yourself. So that’s where you need to put your effort. 

From what you wrote, divorce is probably your best bet. Do it BEFORE you take the job that pays you double.


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## Bibi1031

marduk said:


> I ask because I've seen firsthand what it's like to be in an "awesome, you mean everything to me!" marriage that after an affair begins, becomes "we were never good together and you're terrible to me!"



Oh yeah, the rewriting history crap!


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## Bibi1031

BetrayedDad said:


> Tell him you cheated and let him decide whether to divorce you or not.




This is nonsense. How would that help the marriage? It would just make an already depressed man feel worse and angrier.

Sit him down and explain that you want to save the marriage because it's in crises. You're a lawyer and you know how to get your points across. Ask him what he is willing to do to save it with you. You will get your answer from your Two sided talk. 

He sounds very depressed and is a mean drunk too!

You made a terrible mistake and you are remorseful for the affair. 

You say you are Catholic, then go confess your sin and get absolved. Let God take your sin and your guilt. We are all sinners and we just need to repent and not commit that sin again. If and after you have done all this, please let go of your guilt. We are our worst enemies when we fail at something we think is unforgivable. Yes adultery is a huge no no in our faith, but God's forgiveness is bigger. 

Best of luck with your husbands conversation. Keep us posted and may the Holy Spirit guide your life.


Bibi


----------



## Bibi1031

Mrtruth said:


> You may have forgave yourself for cheating but God hasn't!!! God will not forgive you until you confess to your husband.


From what religion did you get this load of cr4p?

Do not commit adultery is one of the 10 commandments. helps us live a better life, but if you break a commandment, you honestly repent and ask God for forgiveness. He is a merciful God and will forgive you. You owe Him and only Him true repentance. 

God does not even require for you to confess your sin because He is all knowing. 

She is indeed 100% responsible for her sin of committing adultery, but NOTHING is unforgivable to God if their is true repentance.

What kind of God do you worship...sheesh


----------



## aine

Sad Daisy, tell him about your affair, that will get you out of the current status quo and give him the shock he needs as it will end up in him:

1. scrambling to put things back together (something that might work to the good of the marriage) by working with you, going to counselling, etc
2. not giving a d*** and heading towards divorce

3. Lastly, you know it is the right thing to do.


Either way you will know your answer. You cannot flog a dead horse, it will not move.


----------



## afab

I see many posters here have said tell him about it. I wonder would they say the same if the man cheated. I see no purpose in it and cant understand those that do. He doesnt seem to even suspect her so why stoke the fire.


----------



## EleGirl

afab said:


> I see many posters here have said tell him about it. I wonder would they say the same if the man cheated. I see no purpose in it and cant understand those that do. He doesnt seem to even suspect her so why stoke the fire.


Here on TAM? Yea they would tell a man to confess too. I'm surprised that some are not saying it. It's like TAM rule #1: CONFESS To Spouse.

IMHO, sometimes it makes sense. In this case I'm not sure.


----------



## jld

EleGirl said:


> Here on TAM? Yea they would tell a man to confess too. I'm surprised that some are not saying it. It's like TAM rule #1: CONFESS To Spouse.
> 
> IMHO, sometimes it makes sense. In this case I'm not sure.


I am one of the ones who has pushed transparency here on TAM. I think to truly resolve conflict, transparency and empathy are needed.

But conflict is not always going to be resolved. Not all people have the maturity to do so. I doubt OP's spouse has the maturity to address their problems constructively, and with empathy.

OP, I do not think you are safe with this man. I would not tell him about the affair if I were you. I would, however, let it be a clear sign to you that your husband is not a good partner for you. He is not meeting your needs and likely never will. Whatever was good before is likely over. You have outgrown him.

Some women would stay anyway, nursing him along. They are okay with that. I don't think you would be.

Take him up on his offer of divorce, and keep going with your life.

Good work getting a law degree and doing so well in your career, btw. Economic independence is so helpful to women. I am so happy for you that you have the option of walking away and knowing you will be fine.


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## McDean

Sad, honestly you are unlikely to save the marriage at this point (you can't save it on your own). I work with several high powered attorneys, Mr. X won't be the last one that you meet and you will probably attract others and again - their drive, intellectual capital and attraction to you will be a strong pull on you. This site often touts sexual incompatibility but there is intellectual as well, which is clear in your case.

Assuming everything you have shared is accurate, and I rarely advocate for this, I would not tell him about the tryst. Instead I would file for D and move on. Short of your H making a 180 turn around and finding his inner drive and working on the rest (drinking, parenting, etc) you no longer have anything linking you besides your child and every time you bring up the issues you see in the relationship with him, I suspect he slips further into self-loathing.

If however, he has some epiphany and wakes up and starts to turn it around and you decide that it's worth it to be together - at that point you owe him the truth and will have to accept the consequences of his reaction at that time.

Good luck!


----------



## Be smart

Wait a minute. Your husband was there for you and your son when you were is school. He even made meals for family. Then when you got finished with school,got some money your marriage started to suffer. 

You my lady changed after that,you saw other people and their lives with high money income as lawyes and you wanted it.

Just see how you described your husband,I got image like he is an animal!! Shame on you

You just said that you fell GREAT to be wanted from "successful and smart man" and you cheated on your husband. You dont respect your husband at all.

My dad is construction worker but he is the bas man I have ever seen. He is not a laywer or doctor and I dont care.


If you want to work on this marriage,start from the begining and you would see changes are from your school time.


----------



## Satya

I'm one that believes in radical honesty, in this case it would serve to show how dire the state of the marriage actually is. I wouldn't see it as being useful for many other reasons, except to maybe to help with the OP's overwhelming guilt. Sometimes telling the truth is its own therapy. I wouldn't see any "good" it would do in terms of repairing things, though. That seems a bit beyond help at this point. 

OP, you have to do what you think is best, but I strongly encourage you to divorce before you go looking for comfort in another man. Remember that the other man is only an ideal until you start brushing your teeth while he's having a poo on the toilet. In other words, beware of the picture you can conveniently paint of him, when you're not actually in a real relationship. They all lose lustre after a time and THEN we either love people for who they really are or not.


----------



## jld

McDean said:


> Sad, honestly you are unlikely to save the marriage at this point (you can't save it on your own). I work with several high powered attorneys, Mr. X won't be the last one that you meet and you will probably attract others and again - their drive, intellectual capital and attraction to you will be a strong pull on you. This site often touts sexual incompatibility but there is intellectual as well, which is clear in your case.
> 
> Assuming everything you have shared is accurate, and I rarely advocate for this, I would not tell him about the tryst. Instead I would file for D and move on. Short of your H making a 180 turn around and finding his inner drive and working on the rest (drinking, parenting, etc) you no longer have anything linking you besides your child and every time you bring up the issues you see in the relationship with him, I suspect he slips further into self-loathing.
> 
> If however, he has some epiphany and wakes up and starts to turn it around and you decide that it's worth it to be together - at that point you owe him the truth and will have to accept the consequences of his reaction at that time.
> 
> Good luck!


If he were able to get himself to the point where he could face the descent he was in, he could probably hear about the affair without its becoming a dealbreaker. 

I don't know how many people have the maturity to turn themselves around, though. Sounds like a long shot for this guy.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SadDaisy said:


> Yes, Betrayed dad, I am one of those who cheated on their husband and there is no forgiveness for that. Is that all you see in this story? Is there any way you can look at it not from a betrayeddad point of view, but from a view point of a not so old and not ugly woman with a potential, a brain, a person who likes being a wife, having a family and is desperately trying to fix the situation? If I didn’t mention the affair, I am sure everyone would be taking my side. But I had to be honest


Is all I see the giant ELEPHANT in the room? YES. Be honest with him, not us. You are content with rug sweeping the whole incident to fix your doomed marriage and SHAME on the people here siding with that notion.

It's obvious your husband has under appreciated you for long time and he probably won't change. Why should he? The status quo remains. You should tell him, "I will be filing for divorce, I refuse to live with an alcoholic who will not cherish me and I did a horrible thing and had an affair."

If after that he wants to fight for the relationship then you have something to work with. You can't be the only one fighting. If he doesn't then let him go and file for divorce. There is NOTHING to save.


----------



## Anon Pink

SadDaisy,

That ONS really woke you up! You are indeed stuck between a rock and a hard place. Honesty is always the best policy but in this case what cost will that honesty be to your husband? If this marriage is doomed, and I think it is, telling him won't make things better for him. It will actually make things worse because now he has this horrible, no good, slvt of a wife to blame for all of his miseries, as opposed to just having the misfortune of being married to a nag and divorcing said nag. So no, I don't think you should tell him if you plan to divorce. 

I still don't have a sense on what it is you want. 

Do you want to save the marriage? If so, I think telling him might (big might) wake him up by taking him to rock bottom. From there, the ashes of discontent, blooms the rose. Meh, stranger things have happened. At this point you would have to be absolutely determined to save the marriage come what may. You'd be his punching bag until he grew a set of balls to stand on his own, quite drinking, quit over spending, and start taking a hard look at his life. How likely is that to happen? 

From what you've described, not at all likely.

We now return to the beginning. Don't tell him and make plans to divorce.


----------



## rich84

What is there to save here? You have an alcoholic husband with nothing but contempt for you. And this is before you have told him about the affair. I seriously doubt that THAT would be an effective catalyst in producing a loving, sober, non-resentful, fatherly, and financially stable spouse. Not gunna happen. Lips sealed about the indiscretion and proceed with filing like you've already threatened. Take the job. When you're divorced and you no longer owe him fidelity, your affair will likely pull at your conscience less. And you'll be able to take what you learned (about predators and your poor judgement) and apply it to the next relationship. 

You do deserve more than what your husband is giving you. It just doesn't justify your actions, which you freely admit. So, take a different course.


----------



## Cosmos

EleGirl said:


> I disagree with those who say that you need to tell him, that you owe it to him.
> 
> There is only one person you can change, yourself. So that’s where you need to put your effort.
> 
> *From what you wrote, divorce is probably your best bet. Do it BEFORE you take the job that pays you double.*


OP, I can't agree with the above more.


----------



## MJJEAN

When you spoke with the priest did he advise you to confess your adultery to your H? You seem remorseful, so I hope you've been to Confession. If not, go. It might help your conscience.

It seems to me that your husband is an alcoholic and that he has become a bit lazy in the earning department. He doesn't seem to want to make any changes or even admit there is a problem. If he's not willing or able to put in the work to improve himself and the relationship, there isn't much you can do but divorce or stay and accept your marriage as it is.

Honestly, I wouldn't suggest staying married and accepting things as they are, but you are catholic. Your faith is something to consider here. Especially if you'd like to eventually remarry.

The Church teaches valid marriages are for life and cannot be dissolved. A divorced and remarried person is in a perpetual state of Mortal Sin (adultery), therefore ineligible to receive the Sacraments. In the event of a divorce, your choices as a faithful catholic are to remain single and celibate or to seek a Decree of Nullity and hope that your first marriage was invalid according to Church teachings. The Church cannot investigate a marriage for nullity until the civil divorce is complete. However, you can speak to a couple priests and a Canon Lawyer or an advocate at your local Tribunal and have an interview with them. They'll be able to give you an idea of how a nullity case would likely turn out.


----------



## turnera

EleGirl said:


> I disagree with those who say that you need to tell him, that you owe it to him.
> 
> There is only one person you can change, yourself. So that’s where you need to put your effort.
> 
> From what you wrote, divorce is probably your best bet. Do it BEFORE you take the job that pays you double.


Normally, I'm an 'honesty at all cost' kind of replier. But the whole time I was reading this, up to the point of the affair, I was already saying either separate or divorce; he will not change unless he wants to stay married. I lived the same life for 30 years, asked and asked and asked for him to care enough to see MY side, to even recognize I was unhappy let alone be willing to DO anything. 

What made him wake up? Knowing I was on my last hair, that I was SO close to leaving that the only thing that would keep me here is him taking responsibility for his stuff.

If you prepare to move on without him and he STILL won't step up, just file for divorce. I don't know what his demons are, but he has to get hold of them. But some people just won't. So be prepared for that. If that's the case, he's not the kind of person who needs to be told, if for the kids' sakes if nothing else.

Now, if you do this and he then wakes up and starts doing the work, hell yes you need to tell him what happened - in therapy.


----------



## EleGirl

MJJEAN said:


> When you spoke with the priest did he advise you to confess your adultery to your H? You seem remorseful, so I hope you've been to Confession. If not, go. It might help your conscience.
> 
> It seems to me that your husband is an alcoholic and that he has become a bit lazy in the earning department. He doesn't seem to want to make any changes or even admit there is a problem. If he's not willing or able to put in the work to improve himself and the relationship, there isn't much you can do but divorce or stay and accept your marriage as it is.
> 
> Honestly, I wouldn't suggest staying married and accepting things as they are, but you are catholic. Your faith is something to consider here. Especially if you'd like to eventually remarry.
> 
> The Church teaches valid marriages are for life and cannot be dissolved. A divorced and remarried person is in a perpetual state of Mortal Sin (adultery), therefore ineligible to receive the Sacraments. In the event of a divorce, your choices as a faithful catholic are to remain single and celibate or to seek a Decree of Nullity and hope that your first marriage was invalid according to Church teachings. The Church cannot investigate a marriage for nullity until the civil divorce is complete. However, you can speak to a couple priests and a Canon Lawyer or an advocate at your local Tribunal and have an interview with them. They'll be able to give you an idea of how a nullity case would likely turn out.


The Church has changed quite a lot on the grounds for annulment. It seems that as society becomes more aware of mental illnesses, addictions, etc. they have been added to the list for basis of annulment.

Frequently Asked Questions: Marriage Annulments.


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## MJJEAN

Yes, the grounds for nullity include drug and alcohol addiction as well as mental illness. 

The Church teaches a marriage is made at the time of consent. Nothing that happens afterwards can invalidate a valid marriage. Adultery, addiction, and abuse are all considered moral reasons to civilly separate or divorce, but they don't necessarily mean the marriage was invalid.

So, the alcoholism would only be grounds for annulment if he'd been an alcoholic when they got married. However, things that happen later in the marriage can be used as evidence to prove one or more grounds for nullity existed at the time of consent. 

Which is why I suggested OP speak to a couple of priests and either a Canon Lawyer or an Advocate. That way she's got multiple opinions of her chances of annulment so she knows what she's dealing with and can make an informed decision regarding divorce. The alcoholism may or may not be grounds, but there could be other grounds not mentioned in this thread a Canon Lawyer, Advocate, or priest would recognize through interview questions.

OP, did you marry in the Church or get dispensation to marry outside the Church? I ask because Catholics are bound by Canon Law to marry in front of a priest or obtain dispensation to marry elsewhere. Catholics who marry outside the Church without dispensation don't marry validly and getting the Decree of Nullity is simple and only takes a few weeks or so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

I'm also of the opinion that telling him right now will give him a reason to avoid his own demons and blame everything on his slvt wife. Take a look a rrhouse's threads to see this in motion.....her husband was always an abusive drunk but then she made the mistake of having a couple of affairs. Her husband, at her last posting that I'm aware of, was literally drinking himself in the grave and his abuse had quadrupled no matter what she did to make it up to him. He also didn't want to separate, partially because he didn't want to pay support and partly because he needed her to be his emotional punching bag. If he hadn't known about her affairs and she had just left he might have been able to deal with his drinking, and if he had and they were going to consider reconciliation she could've told him then. At least he'd hear it when sober and even if he couldn't deal with it there's a better chance he wouldn't be drinking himself into the grave and acting like a complete piece of sheet that won't even deal with his younger daughter because she "reminds of of her affairs". The little girl had nothing to do with rrhouse's stepping out, OM were out of the picture and they discussed having another child.....why I have no idea but they did. But it's yet another reason for him to blame everything on her, use her as an emotional punching bag, and continue drinking until he dies. And now his baby daughter is gearing up to become another emotional punching bag for her piece of sheet drunk father.

OP, tell him you're filing for divorce right not and if he deals with his demons you'll consider getting back together. If he takes significant steps toward this then you tell him what happened. Let him deal with it from a position of sobriety.


----------



## SadDaisy

Thanks to all of you.
Bibi, I went in for a confession. I could not go to my church. I do some legal work for them. They know my voice... I went to another Catholic church to do this.

Satya, I have NO desire to be with any man right nw. If I filed for a divorce, I would just stay by myself, focus on my son and my job. I used to be a decent piano player, but we never got a piano after we got married. I am thinking I will take some lessons on that and do this for myself. The Mr. X is history, I got my lesson. I am not looking to date at this time.

Anon Pink, I have tried to talk to him. I have approached the conversation from different angles. I have not been aggressive or offensive. May be this is what I should do to actually get something out of him. I want to have a normal life again. If he made even a small step forward, I think we could start reviving the relationship. But he refuses to recognize that something is wrong here. With that, there is not starting point.

MJJEAN, I did confess and the priest said, have no further remorse for what you have done and go in peace. He softly suggested that I don't tell the husband. But he strongly suggested to try to keep the marriage going. I have talked to the priest about this and we could discuss the annulment. But then, what does the annulment make my child?..


----------



## MEM2020

Sad,

You have made endless attempts at transparency and connection and he has dismissed you. 

You are 100% right NOT TO TELL HIM. He is a bad person and will simply use that single incident as leverage. 

Extract yourself and your child from this travesty of a marriage as safely and carefully as you can. 




SadDaisy said:


> Thanks to all of you.
> Bibi, I went in for a confession. I could not go to my church. I do some legal work for them. They know my voice... I went to another Catholic church to do this.
> 
> Satya, I have NO desire to be with any man right nw. If I filed for a divorce, I would just stay by myself, focus on my son and my job. I used to be a decent piano player, but we never got a piano after we got married. I am thinking I will take some lessons on that and do this for myself. The Mr. X is history, I got my lesson. I am not looking to date at this time.
> 
> Anon Pink, I have tried to talk to him. I have approached the conversation from different angles. I have not been aggressive or offensive. May be this is what I should do to actually get something out of him. I want to have a normal life again. If he made even a small step forward, I think we could start reviving the relationship. But he refuses to recognize that something is wrong here. With that, there is not starting point.
> 
> MJJEAN, I did confess and the priest said, have no further remorse for what you have done and go in peace. He softly suggested that I don't tell the husband. But he strongly suggested to try to keep the marriage going. I have talked to the priest about this and we could discuss the annulment. But then, what does the annulment make my child?..


----------



## Bibi1031

SadDaisy said:


> MJJEAN, I did confess and the priest said, have no further remorse for what you have done and go in peace. He softly suggested that I don't tell the husband. But he strongly suggested to try to keep the marriage going. I have talked to the priest about this and we could discuss the annulment. But then, what does the annulment make my child?..


The priest told you what any priest would have said. I hope this allowed you to get rid of your guilt. It serves no purpose at this point.

IMO the annulment is useless because you did have a good marriage for some time and a beautiful little boy that came from that union.

You really need to try harder at getting your husband to listen to your marriage crisis. You will get your answer about divorce or not fron him. If he doesn't listen no matter how much you try, then serve him divorce papers. He WILL respond then and you will know if you continue the divorce process or stop it. You DO have that option.

Bibi


----------



## EleGirl

SadDaisy said:


> MJJEAN, I did confess and the priest said, have no further remorse for what you have done and go in peace. He softly suggested that I don't tell the husband. But he strongly suggested to try to keep the marriage going. I have talked to the priest about this and we could discuss the annulment. But then, what does the annulment make my child?..



An annulment does not change the status of children from the marriage.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
My opinion is that he needs to know what you have done. You stated that you want his attention and for him to see the problems in the M and with that news you are sure to get it. It will either cause, as some have said, him to now have a scape goat on to which he can assign all blame or it will serve to stir him to action and force him to face some reality. I am not thoroughly familiar with Catholicism but the advice the priest dispensed regarding keeping this information from your husband I find puzzling. How can there be forgiveness and forward progress when there are undisclosed lies?

In any event, you indicated that you want your life back but in order for that to happen there has to be a return to the way life was pre A, pre-resentment, pre-alcohol, pre-distancing, pre-detachment and pre-deceit and in order for that to happen these things must be acknowledged and dealt with. You cannot take anything off of the bad marriage table until it is recognized, understood and a course of resolution identified and implemented. Any thing short of that is simply moving problems around without facing them. That would be like the marriage shell game where you never know which shell still contains the "problem", they will keep turning up until all the shells are empty of their P(roblem).


----------



## MEM2020

All,

I know that we most of us have a "playbook" we use. It explains the rules of engagement, penalties for various transgressions etc.

And I accept that most folks playbook says that confessing infidelity is the first step to improving a marriage. And maybe that's true most of the time. 

But this marriage was wrecked way before that event. And seems largely unaffected by it now. 

I seriously believe that most of you are lucky enough not to have married a person who is comfortable relentlessly gas lighting you. 

This guy - his whole strategy is based on gas lighting. On claiming that everything is FINE. He knows how NOT fine it all is. 

People like that - aren't playing for a win win. They aren't even trying to play fair. They are in a win at any cost mode. 

Giving someone like that this type ammunition is kind of like setting yourself on fire when you feel a bit chilly. 






NoChoice said:


> OP,
> My opinion is that he needs to know what you have done. You stated that you want his attention and for him to see the problems in the M and with that news you are sure to get it. It will either cause, as some have said, him to now have a scape goat on to which he can assign all blame or it will serve to stir him to action and force him to face some reality. I am not thoroughly familiar with Catholicism but the advice the priest dispensed regarding keeping this information from your husband I find puzzling. How can there be forgiveness and forward progress when there are undisclosed lies?
> 
> In any event, you indicated that you want your life back but in order for that to happen there has to be a return to the way life was pre A, pre-resentment, pre-alcohol, pre-distancing, pre-detachment and pre-deceit and in order for that to happen these things must be acknowledged and dealt with. You cannot take anything off of the bad marriage table until it is recognized, understood and a course of resolution identified and implemented. Any thing short of that is simply moving problems around without facing them. That would be like the marriage shell game where you never know which shell still contains the "problem", they will keep turning up until all the shells are empty of their P(roblem).


----------



## manfromlamancha

OP, you need to realise one thing about what you did - you cheated. Whatever city you go to, I can give you a list of bars, venues etc that you can go to where I guarantee that you will find a "caring" man who really "gets you", "empathises with your situation", who "cares about you" and "shares interests with you" and who would eventually get into your pants if you don't work on yourself and your boundaries.

Once you understand this, then if you truly want to resolve your marital situation one way or another, you will know that you need to be honest with your husband, whether he is a villain or not.

I must admit that this post sounds like the POSOM played you, you got horny & fvcked him and are now rewriting your marital history to better justify what you did - even when you say things like I understand that my cheating was wrong, it doesn't come across as credible and you certainly don't sound or appear to be remorseful. Especially when you refer to the [email protected] as warm or caring or wonderful etc and worse when you think that what you did was because you fell in love or had "deep feelings" for him.

So tell your husband what you did and face the music. Then get divorced and move on because you do not love or respect your husband - that much is clear. Not sure what he feels about you.


----------



## NoChoice

MEM11363 said:


> All,
> 
> I know that we most of us have a "playbook" we use. It explains the rules of engagement, penalties for various transgressions etc.
> 
> And I accept that most folks playbook says that confessing infidelity is the first step to improving a marriage. And maybe that's true most of the time.
> 
> But this marriage was wrecked way before that event. And seems largely unaffected by it now.
> 
> I seriously believe that most of you are lucky enough not to have married a person who is comfortable relentlessly gas lighting you.
> 
> This guy - his whole strategy is based on gas lighting. On claiming that everything is FINE. He knows how NOT fine it all is.
> 
> People like that - aren't playing for a win win. They aren't even trying to play fair. They are in a win at any cost mode.
> 
> Giving someone like that this type ammunition is kind of like setting yourself on fire when you feel a bit chilly.
> 
> 
> 
> NoChoice said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP,
> My opinion is that he needs to know what you have done. You stated that you want his attention and for him to see the problems in the M and with that news you are sure to get it. It will either cause, as some have said, him to now have a scape goat on to which he can assign all blame or it will serve to stir him to action and force him to face some reality. I am not thoroughly familiar with Catholicism but the advice the priest dispensed regarding keeping this information from your husband I find puzzling. How can there be forgiveness and forward progress when there are undisclosed lies?
> 
> In any event, you indicated that you want your life back but in order for that to happen there has to be a return to the way life was pre A, pre-resentment, pre-alcohol, pre-distancing, pre-detachment and pre-deceit and in order for that to happen these things must be acknowledged and dealt with. You cannot take anything off of the bad marriage table until it is recognized, understood and a course of resolution identified and implemented. Any thing short of that is simply moving problems around without facing them. That would be like the marriage shell game where you never know which shell still contains the "problem", they will keep turning up until all the shells are empty of their P(roblem).
Click to expand...

Are there not certain constants that should apply universally? I agree that situations are dynamic and there are times when different approaches are called for but is the truth now becoming dispensable to be disregarded when it is inconvenient?

For the record, my wife holds advanced degrees in gaslighting and trickle truthing and I find it maddening.

OP's H refuses counseling, even refuses to acknowledge his problem, is imbibing too much and appears to harbor deep resentment based on what seems to be a feeling of inferiority to his wife. If things are to change something must awaken his ability to see reality so that those issues can be dealt with.

The option to telling the truth is to continue on as usual and that is certainly an option for her but based on her coming here and asking advice, it seems she has at least some desire for change. Her husband is not conveying honesty but neither is she and I simply feel that for this to get better someone must stand for integrity, and honesty. As always, these are my opinions and only offered for consideration. The choice is OP's to use it or ignore it.


----------



## MachoMcCoy

SadDaisy said:


> I have tried to sit him down and have a conversation. He sighs, blames me for bugging him, calls me annoying, tells me to look for the problem inside myself. Tells me that I would do anything to not let him watch the news.


There have been relationship forums like this in existence for well over 10 years now and women STILL think they can just sit down and tell their man what an a-hole he's been.

You have two options:

1 - Hand him a detailed letter as to why you are leaving as you walk out the door with a suitcase. That, and only that will get his attention.

2 - Live like this the rest of your life.

Obviously you can just leave him without an explanation. But I will ask you as a man to please tell him why . He probably already knows, but there's something about hearing it directly from the WAW that really makes it hit home. I know, I've been there.

Please leave him for HIM. I don't care abut you. You made your bed. Help him regain his life.


----------



## SadDaisy

He has gone to two new job interviews with me. He was his upbeat positive former self at dinners and very pleasant with the interviewers. 
When we got home, he told me his usual line. I don't care about the family, the house, this community, all I care about is my career and want a higher paying job. Before, we have discussed multiple job offers for me, in state and out of state, and decided to investigate the two offers in our state. He even seemed excited to come with me to the interviews. But after the interviews, it was the same stuff- I'm no good.

Life is back to previous level. I didn't even bother bringing up the difference in his behavior in the "high society" circles and at home. I complimented him on his looks and ability to engage into conversations. I gave him no negativity. 

What to do, what to do.
Take the job, file, and move?


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## turnera

If all he sees is 'you're no good,' time to move on.


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## SadDaisy

Update.
We are done. I moved on. Still live in the same town for the sake of the son. We have shared custody, but since the ex doesn't want to do much with the boy, I get a lot more time with him that the originally agreed upon 50/50.
I am pretty much over my ex. Ready to do some dating. Any thoughts on where to start?


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## Lostinthought61

I think your right to move on but in fairness he should not be stuck with you school loans you owe him that, you owe to pay off your debt alone.


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## manfromlamancha

SadDaisy said:


> Update.
> We are done. I moved on. Still live in the same town for the sake of the son. We have shared custody, but since the ex doesn't want to do much with the boy, I get a lot more time with him that the originally agreed upon 50/50.
> I am pretty much over my ex. Ready to do some dating. Any thoughts on where to start?


Maybe pick up where you left off with the POS [email protected] lawyer that "got you" - but be warned, you might not be as attractive now that you are single and available.

In another thread somebody mentioned it would be wonderful to hear both sides of the story. I would love to hear from your husband why he suddenly went off you - especially since you use terms like "I don't mention these things in the high circles I roam around in". Prior to your qualifying as a lawyer, your ex was fantastic and a runner, jock etc and you were happy to join him - then you qualified and suddenly he doesn't belong in your higher circles and this "athlete" suddenly became a beer swilling slob!?!?!?!?

Did you muster up the decency to tell him about your "ONS" - the person who got you, and you felt something for ? (You see ONS's normally happen when you are drunk or at a party etc - you don't normally have feelings for a ONS and certainly don't go back to a ONS who tried to kiss you the first time when you ran away).

Story doesn't sound right. Good luck and if you do tell your husband about your "ONS" (aka affair), send him here - maybe we can help him.


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## Legend

Yes, you can start by being 100% honest with your next husband. Marriage without complete honesty and disclosure is not a real marriage.


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## SadDaisy

Quite harsh, but, I guess, deserved.
No I did not tell the ex about the affair.
I still communicate with that other man on a professional level. I have to. I have avoided seeing him in person again so far.
I have no intentions of getting back with him.
But I do think, if it hasn't been for the " bad lawyer", I would still be married to a dysfunctional alcoholic, convinced that I am unattractive pitiful woman destined to serve him for the rest of my life. My son wouldn't be getting the right idea about the role of mother/wife in the family.


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## Lostinthought61

SadDaisy said:


> Quite harsh, but, I guess, deserved.
> No I did not tell the ex about the affair.
> I still communicate with that other man on a professional level. I have to. I have avoided seeing him in person again so far.
> I have no intentions of getting back with him.
> But I do think, if it hasn't been for the " bad lawyer", I would still be married to a dysfunctional alcoholic, convinced that I am unattractive pitiful woman destined to serve him for the rest of my life. My son wouldn't be getting the right idea about the role of mother/wife in the family.


Its one thing to accept your role in all of this but judicating your actions is beneath you.


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## Satya

In the future, if you found out that your son's wife had a ONS, and it was obvious she wasn't going to tell your son about it, what, if anything, would you do?
I'm just trying to get a picture of what you, now in the role as a mother, would do under the circumstances.


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## EleGirl

SadDaisy,

It's not unusual for a marriage to fall apart if one spouse ends up getting a higher level degree after marriage. It seems that most men do not handle it well when their wife does this. Your husband's behavior, his putting you down, etc. is very predictable. 

You said that he used to work at night and would come home smelling of alcohol. Did you ever check to see if he was having an affair? It sounds like he might have been.

I'm sorry that you are getting beat-up some here. I really don't think that your affair is relevant at this point. Just get on with your life.

You have moved on. I can understand why.

Did you file for divorce?


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## EleGirl

I want to add this. On the topic of whether or not to tell, there are two schools. 

One says to always confess the affair.

The other says to not confess the affair.

Here on TAM, most people will push a WS hard to confess an affair. 

In your case it's non-issue. You are divorcing, or divorce.


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## SadDaisy

EleGirl,
It's over and done with.
I have lived by myself for 10 months.
I started another thread about dating. People read the beginning of this thread (which was a year ago) and have the timeline wrong.


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## happydad

SadDaisy said:


> EleGirl,
> It's over and done with.
> I have lived by myself for 10 months.
> I started another thread about dating. People read the beginning of this thread (which was a year ago) and have the timeline wrong.


I'm a big proponent of telling about the affair, but in your case I don't think it was your responsibility, as the marriage seemed doomed regardless. If you were going to stay and try and make it work somehow, I definitely think it should have been on the table. It also sounds like he may have been less then faithful as well. 

I'm curious how the breakup was handled, did you just come out and say I'm done, did he fight for the relationship at all?

I don't have any experience dating after divorce, but I did marry a girl with 2 kids, so I would say that there are guys out there these days who aren't too bothered by kids, especially if the kids are being raised properly. My advice would be to over communicate with the guys you date, and don't rush into introducing anybody to your kids. Also, when you do finally introduce somebody to your son, he (your son) will likely be VERY uneasy about sharing you, and so the communication with your son is very important. 

I think I struggled with this a bit as a step son, and early on as a step father. It is up to you to communicate the boundaries to both your love interest and your son, and to help define the mutual respect. You can't allow either to be nasty to the other, it will be easier for you to allow your son to be nasty, as he is young and immature, but if you don't show that you are not going to accept him being rude/mean then it is on you for not doing your job. And you obviously can't allow your love interest to be rude/mean/jealous of your son...EVER.


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## SadDaisy

It just trickled down.
There was yelling, name calling, no attempt from him to reconcile whatsoever.
It's been almost a year since we split up.


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## SunCMars

.....


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## aine

SadDaisy said:


> He has gone to two new job interviews with me. He was his upbeat positive former self at dinners and very pleasant with the interviewers.
> When we got home, he told me his usual line. I don't care about the family, the house, this community, all I care about is my career and want a higher paying job. Before, we have discussed multiple job offers for me, in state and out of state, and decided to investigate the two offers in our state. He even seemed excited to come with me to the interviews. But after the interviews, it was the same stuff- I'm no good.
> 
> Life is back to previous level. I didn't even bother bringing up the difference in his behavior in the "high society" circles and at home. I complimented him on his looks and ability to engage into conversations. I gave him no negativity.
> 
> What to do, what to do.
> Take the job, file, and move?


Sounds to me like your H cannot handle you being potentially more successful than him. He wants the former you, a young housewife who stayed at home, raise the kids, pander to his needs, etc. He is obviously not willing to support your career at all and seems to be sulking. As Macho says, lay it on the line, tell him if you both don't have the same goals, and life objectives then no point in staying in the marriage., he is not even willing to meet you half way.
Your cheating is another story and in my opinion you should tell him and see where the cards fall, I expect he will make the decision for you and end the marriage, or it might give him such a shock and make him see that he surely didn't help his marriage and basically insulted u into another man's arms (though no excuse). Tell him and let the chips fall where they may.


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## aine

Sorry not up to date, Daisy, I hope things are going well for you.


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## She'sStillGotIt

SadDaisy said:


> It just trickled down.
> There was yelling, name calling, no attempt from him to reconcile whatsoever.
> It's been almost a year since we split up.


Smartest decision ever.


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## manfromlamancha

I dont agree that your affair has nothing to do with your situation - it is very important to your situation - it signifies what you have become (and may have been all along).

Your summary as it reads here:

*FIRST:*

Met when you were in college.

Together 17 years, 13 years married.

Very well matched to start with - he was a sporting, fit, attractive man who had his first job in insurance.

Huge wedding, many many common interests and good life - gloriously happy etc.

You graduated and worked for the local school system.

Had a son.

*THEN ….*

Decided to go to law school.

Hubby and mum had to cope with this on just his income plus your law school debt.

He runs up some debt which has to be paid for.

He has to cope with job and son (with some help from your mother).

You *think* he is not working and is lazy.

You start to see him in a negative light now that you are a "lawyer"

You perceive yourself to now be involved in "upper/higher circles".

He is nothing but a drunken one-time jock who is resentful.

You have a go at him for running up debt.

You want to move away from your now lowly life! He doesn't.

You meet a predatory "refined and intelligent, handsome famous lawyer" and you "fall for his predatory behaviour" and fvck him and then claim to be ashamed while continuing to defend him here. (Many believe these lawyers to be the actual scum of the earth).

*SO YOU HAVE NOW REACHED THE PEAK OF YOUR DISRESPECT TOWARDS HIM …*

You continue to be deceitful and not tell him about this. You convince yourself that you are the victim here. You have forgotten what he did for you earlier on and have completely rewritten the whole story in your mind! There are some here who have managed to turn this around and suggest that maybe he was cheating !?!?!? Unbelievable!!!

And now that you have a job which finally elevated you above him (IN YOUR MIND) you feel justified in divorcing him, and moving on to other predatory [email protected]! In other words, "I am ready to date, what do you folks at TAM (a forum dedicated to the sanctity of marriage) think ? Really … and you have the gall to thank the muthafvcker that you fvcked for rescuing you from your marriage!!!! And you are worried that if you had not divorced, your son will get the wrong idea about marriage and the roll of the mother in a family - TRULY PRICELESS! How about telling him the truth about what you did and then lets see what idea he will get about the role of the mother !?!?!?

If he truly had become an alcoholic, and you really were once a Catholic, you would have remembered the "in sickness and in health" part of your marriage vows. And certainly the part about not fvcking others.

I cannot believe that your husband didn't notice your change in attitude and behaviour on graduation out of law school. 

So to the comment that says your affair had nothing to do with your situation - I say it is at the very core of your situation because it is at the very core of you and your behaviour! And most importantly the lack of work that you were prepared to put into saving a marriage with someone you claimed to once love and be gloriously happy with.

For your own self esteem, go back and tell him what you did. And then go into that Catholic Church you are part of and ask for even the tiniest bit of forgiveness - it might make you a better person - someone your son would look up to (after knowing the whole truth).

Wow, just wow!


P.S. and maybe send your ex here so we can hear his side of the story and perhaps help him!


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## 2asdf2

Manfromlamancha's theory fits well with what many of us have seen documented on CWI. Spouse going from the incarnation of an archangel to the embodiment of Lucifer.

It strikes me as odd that after ten months of separation and almost a year not posting here we now find a posting asking advice about dating.

Of course, the statement that the OP went church shopping to receive the sacrament of Reconciliation gives one the thought that she may not be any more transparent here than she was with her own church's clergy.


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## SunCMars

manfromlamancha said:


> I dont agree that your affair has nothing to do with your situation - it is very important to your situation - it signifies what you have become (and may have been all along).
> 
> P.S. and maybe send your ex here so we can hear his side of the story and perhaps help him!


God all Mighty!

When you think you have good eyesight, another man comes along and proves you blind!

Fee Fye Fo Fum....I smell the blood of an Englishman. With Spanish lineage?

I come paternally from Welsh BowMen. >----------->


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## SadDaisy

2asdf2, currently, the personal/private life is pitiful, nonexistent.
Call it a one night stand or an affair, it was wrong of me to do. I now have to live with myself. I'm making it.
I could move to another city ( I did not take the big new job with that corporation, in part, because of potential to have to deal with that man), find new friends, and see new places. However, anywhere I go, I will bring myself and my guilt. That guilt which is still gnawing.

Sad and true, I have not really dated since my divorce.


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## mary35

Guilt is a useless emotion unless it motivates change. You say you learned your lesson, so move forward and prove it. Forgive yourself and live a productive happy life. Good luck in the dating world. Relax, take it slow and have fun.


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