# Wife is cheating, but I cheated first (NEED HELP PLEASE)



## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Me - 42
Wife - 38
Two kids, 6 and 3.

I have cheated on my wife with escorts many times in the span of 5 years. In 2011, I got caught once again (4th time), and she wanted to leave me. But somehow she decided to hang on to the marriage. I haven't gone back to that lifestyle since (3 years "sober") and I have no desire to. But I've demolished her trust.

Fast forward to summer 2013. She just started a new job. Apparently her boss had the hots for her since day 1, but didn't tell her until 3 months ago. She was able to allow herself to fall in love with him because she no longer loved or respected me as a husband.

In the meantime, I've loved her more and more, especially these past three years. My problem is that I didn't know how to show it.

She dropped both bombshells at me at once (leaving me, and in love with OM). This was a week ago. Since then, I've been on an emotional roller coaster, but one thing I learned is that in order to make any sort of change, I have to address my self esteem issues. I've done a lot of research, read books, etc. I feel that even just a short week later, I'm in a much better state of mind and I feel great about myself.

The OM has all the personality traits that she looks for in a man -- self-esteem, career driven, and thoughtful. The third one I cringe at because of course you're going to be extra thoughtful to your mistress in the first few months of courtship.

She's used words like "Soulmate", "In love", when talking about him. I even asked her if she would marry him. She said yes.

We still live together and go through the same routines as if everything is normal. For example, we'll still shower and change in front of each other.

We have long talks almost every night about the situation. She still cares about me and my feelings, and understands that I'm going through a tough time. It's strange that the person who is now my "counselor" is the very woman who has decided to leave me for another man.

We saw a counselor last Friday and we agreed to a two month "trial period" (whatever that's supposed to mean). However, she refused to stop seeing him. She sees him every day at work, and one day on a weekend. She texts and e-mails him even during the week when she's home with me and the kids.

Fast forward to today. She started to show signs of doubt about her future. She's always said that after the two month trial period, she has three options - A) Stay with me. B) Stay with OM. C) Leave both and be alone. Last night, she said that door C is looking better and better. She's having concerns about this situation because the OM's wife (yes, he's married too) is threatening all sorts of things to get her husband back, including threatening my wife.

The other problem is that my wife is very, VERY smart -- particularly when it comes to relationships and personal interactions. Because of this, I feel that she has built a wall for herself against listening to anyone else (even a therapist), because she thinks she has all the answers. She has justified this affair because of our past. She thinks everything will be roses after we split and the kids will be fine. She is very close to her parents, and they live near us. The kids spend their days there while we're at work. She has stressed how she wants me to always be her friend and to be amicable no matter what happens. She also stressed that she wants to see me become a better person. If she didn't still have feelings for me, would she still care about that?

I'm really trying my best not to pursue her, and let her have her space.

I really don't know what my next move should be. Please help. :scratchhead:


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Sorry for your situation. We reap what we sow.

Expose everything to the OM wife. And HR at work. The affair may not be as rosy if it's inconvenient to him.

She shouldn't be going out on weekends with him. She should be home with her young children. So should you.

Sounds like she checked out due to your serial cheating. Sucks what you did to those kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

What should you do?

Tell her to take option C.

Encourage her to take option C.

Then focus on you. Fix you!

And guess what? You feel guilt for your cheating. So instead of standing up for yourself and throwing your wife out for cheating you let her have a married BF while still pretending to be man and wife.

And guess what?? Two rights do not make it wrong. She is a cheater too! Yeah. Your wife is a fricking rocket scientist.

Now send your wife a letter that you have decided to focus on you and your issues. That you cannot be friends with her or amicable while she is married to you and banging the other married man.

Apologize to her for wrecking her self esteem and making her think that her having an affair and destroying two families is acceptable.......

Make it clear that your wrong and her wrong do not make it right.

Then back off. Do the 180. And focus on you and the kids.

Who knows? Your wife is having doubts. Maybe she will wake up from her fog and decide to repair some of the damage.

In a way you two deserve each other.

HM


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

PhillyGuy13 - Thanks for your comments. Here is some more detail to the story.

The OM's wife also knows because he dropped the bombshell to her also. They have also agreed to a two-month trial period, but I believe he's purely stringing her along and get her to cool down and heal so that she doesn't end up doing something crazy (like calling HR at work).


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Happyman is right focus on you and the kids, if she snaps out of it great, but focus on getting yourself fixed.

Ballpark on her income? Can the family afford to have her lose her job? Call HR Threaten a lawsuit. They weren't coworkers- they are boss/subordinate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I agree with Happy that you need to fix yourself and i also agree she needs to take option C, but what i would recommend is that you take it upon yourself to call HR on them....you wife and the OM should not just get away with it either.....and i would definitely instill 180 on your wife.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

mindsink said:


> PhillyGuy13 - Thanks for your comments. Here is some more detail to the story.
> 
> The OM's wife also knows because he dropped the bombshell to her also. They have also agreed to a two-month trial period, but I believe he's purely stringing her along and get her to cool down and heal so that she doesn't end up doing something crazy *(like calling HR at work*).


If you want to stay married and your wife back, the affair needs to stop. this means you need to expose more. like calling HR at her work make it look like OM's wife did it.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> And guess what?? Two rights do not make it wrong. She is a cheater too! Yeah. Your wife is a fricking rocket scientist.


During this time, she talked to her best friend and also her father. She indicated that both of them gave her the advice to leave me, and suggested that this affair is OK and justified. SMH



happyman64 said:


> Now send your wife a letter that you have decided to focus on you and your issues. That you cannot be friends with her or amicable while she is married to you and banging the other married man.


The last thing I want to do is push her away, and do something threatening. She still wants to spend time as a family, strangely enough. She even encouraged me to book a family trip for this coming July 4th weekend. Strange, huh?



happyman64 said:


> Apologize to her for wrecking her self esteem and making her think that her having an affair and destroying two families is acceptable.......


I've tried attacking it from that angle and she simply throws it back at me that it was I that destroyed the family years ago, and that she is simply the victim here. Any attempts at me trying to shed her relationship with the OM in a bad light seemed counter-productive thus far.

Thanks for your feedback. Appreciate it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindsink

Just realize that you have allowed her to continue in her affair.

Your wife is fencesitting.

Very classic behavior. especially the revenge affair.

PhillyGuy has a good suggestion. HR.

And stop being her friend, stop being amicable and act like her husband.

She actually needs that.

HM


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Xenote said:


> I agree with Happy that you need to fix yourself and i also agree she needs to take option C, but what i would recommend is that you take it upon yourself to call HR on them....you wife and the OM should not just get away with it either.....and i would definitely instill 180 on your wife.


Yes, we can sustain on only one income, but just barely. The thing is, even if she decides to leave me for this other guy, I want to stay close in her life because she's such an amazing friend and a wonderful mother to our kids.

Also, I'm afraid of how she will react if she finds out I ratted on them. That might completely shut the door on me.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Ugh. What a mess.

Are the two of you still intimate? Sleeping in the same bed?

What do the two of you do for work?

How long have you been married?

In any case, you need to start taking options away from her. Hell, she may _want_ you to do this, especially considering her apparent insight into your self-esteem issues. Tell her that, while you love her and want to keep your marriage and family intact, you cannot and will not continue to be her best friend, confidant, etc while she is actively engaged in a relationship w/ OM and/or weighing her options regarding the two of you. Basically, tell her that you won't be her Plan B. (You should also realize that her talk of an option 'C' is just that -- talk.)

Are you or have you been in any sort of therapy?


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Ugh. What a mess.
> 
> Are the two of you still intimate? Sleeping in the same bed?


The most we do now is hug, kiss on the cheek, and hold hands. We haven't slept in the same bed for a while, mostly because of our daughter who absolutely refuses to sleep without her mother in bed (but that's another whole issue). So my wife sleeps with my daughter, I sleep by myself.



GusPolinski said:


> What do the two of you do for work?
> 
> How long have you been married?
> 
> ...


We're both career professionals, making pretty good money. She is more accomplished in her career than I am, and is far more driven (which she's been telling me for years).

We saw the therapist last week, and we'll be going again next week.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Lila said:


> This is a FUBAR situation if I ever saw one. There is no moral high ground for either of you. You both have screwed up royally.
> 
> My suggestion is that you push for legal separation and focus on successfully co-parenting your kids. Don't force them to live in this toxic environment.
> 
> ...


The thing is, the kids are totally oblivious and we are very amicable while around the house and on weekend outings. I don't know, perhaps that's symptomatic of my self-esteem issue. I am allowing her affair and blaming myself.

My history with hookers has been fully exposed to her family, my family, and some of our friends.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

To be clear, I wasn't asking about whether or not the two of you were attending therapy together, but whether or not you have ever been to individual therapy.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> The thing is, the kids are totally oblivious and we are very amicable while around the house and on weekend outings. I don't know, *perhaps that's symptomatic of my self-esteem issue. I am allowing her affair and blaming myself.*


Yep. Take a stand.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> To be clear, I wasn't asking about whether or not the two of you were attending therapy together, but whether or not you have ever been to individual therapy.


No individual therapy. Funny thing is, last night, my wife suggested that I seek individual therapy to help me get through these times and take steps to becoming a better person.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

Sorry for your situation. Your only hope is to listen and do what others have said here if you do truly love her – which I doubt by the way.

You cheated on her with escorts - what was that about? She has an ongoing affair and you basically accept it. Sounds to me you both have just been treading water and trying to take care of your kids. My opinion is that it is just a matter of time before you both just can't stand each other as this type of relationship will never work - and how bad is this for your kids?

To top all of this off, you have a jerk-off supervisor taking advantage of your wife - make no mistake, this guy is a slime ball who disserves to be fired. He needs to be exposed! Do you really want your wife to end up with this guy? Does she really think this guy walks on water? I mean a guy who would have an affair with a married woman who has two children? The odds of this type of guy wanting to marry your wife "ever" - is slim to none.

Come on now - you need to grow a pair and expose this scum bag. Do the 180 on your wife - and do whatever it takes to improve yourself. If you do love your wife and she does love you – then maybe a chance – but from what I see allot of damage has been done and it will be difficult to overcome this.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Aspydad said:


> Sorry for your situation. Your only hope is to listen and do what others have said here if you do truly love her – which I doubt by the way.
> 
> You cheated on her with escorts - what was that about? She has an ongoing affair and you basically accept it. Sounds to me you both have just been treading water and trying to take care of your kids. My opinion is that it is just a matter of time before you both just can't stand each other as this type of relationship will never work - and how bad is this for your kids?
> 
> ...


The reason I cheated on her with escorts is simple -- sexual gratification. Nothing more, nothing less. I was addicted to the lifestyle, and the challenge of planning and hunting.

I have personally overcome it, I believe. I went to a group therapy session, had a life threatening illness in 2012 which completely changed the outlook regarding my health. I have been clean for 3 years and have no desire to go back to that lifestyle.

This jerk-off supervisor is also married to a woman for 14 years and has two young children of their own. Their situation is different than ours because the OM's wife has been faithful to him the whole time.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Expose him at work already.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Your marriage was dead years ago, after you got caught for the 4th time. You just didn't know it. Let her go. If she wants to rebuild things with you, she will let you know. In the meantime, work on fixing yourself. Your best chance is to demonstrate through your actions that you're a new man. 

And I say this as someone who's cheated, never (as far as I know) been cheated on. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Happyman is right focus on you and the kids, if she snaps out of it great, but focus on getting yourself fixed.
> 
> Ballpark on her income? Can the family afford to have her lose her job? Call HR Threaten a lawsuit. They weren't coworkers- they are boss/subordinate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She would not be the one to lose her job. Because this is a boss/subordinate relationship, if they fired her, then SHE could sue the company. It happened where I work. The premise? The company didn't do anything to stop a boss from preying on the subordinate, even though it was completely consensual.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

vellocet said:


> She would not be the one to lose her job. Because this is a boss/subordinate relationship, if they fired her, then SHE could sue the company. It happened where I work. The premise? The company didn't do anything to stop a boss from preying on the subordinate, even though it was completely consensual.


Yep this is spot on.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Btw... Counseling is likely a waste of time as long as she's seeing the OM. Save your pennies for a lawyer. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Yep this is spot on.


Yup, but there are always exceptions. The company could fire them both and hope that the subordinate doesn't file a lawsuit.

But if their lawyer is smart, they'd advise firing the boss only.

The lady where I work that entered willingly into an affair with her boss wasn't fired because it was made known that if she lost her job, she would file against the company. Even if she can get away with it legally, it doesn't make it right. I don't even believe she has the gall to take that stance.

Needless to say people don't talk to her, don't befriend her and only talk to her strictly with business. And she isn't allowed to go on business trips with any men.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mindsink said:


> This jerk-off supervisor is also married to a woman for 14 years and has two young children of their own. Their situation is different than ours because the OM's wife has been faithful to him the whole time.


 First, your wife may try to rationalize away her cheating because you cheated in the past, but she cannot rationalize what she did to the other man's wife. To the other man's wife, she is nothing more than a cheating home wrecker. Call her out on this. Time to let her stop having the moral high ground. Point this out when you expose.

Second, your cheating is different than her cheating in a big way. Her cheating is far worse. When you were caught, you admitted that you were wrong each time and said that you were sorry. You never looked her in the eye and said that you would continue to cheat. You never left the house with her knowing that you were heading out to cheat. She does these things and that is very cruel. She also never had to fear losing you as they were escorts that you never said that you were in love with. If your wife was not happy in the marriage she needed to leave you not cheat on you. In cheating, as in everything else, two wrongs do not make a right. You were sorry that you cheated. She needs to be sorry that she cheated.

One last thing. You need to tell the family, friends, and others your side. You need to expose the affair from your point of view. Often times the cheater will tell the family only some of what they did, while lying to there spouse and telling them that they told them everything. I doubt that they know that she is cheating with a married man and are telling her that she is right to do so. 

By trying to preserve the friendship as she cheats, you are letting her cake eat. The 2 months period, while she is still seeing the other man is bull. You are wasting your time, and by allowing the affair in your face, you are losing more of her respect. You have no chance to get her back if she does not respect you and is still seeing the other man. Your only chance is to expose to everyone including HR, and not worry about the friendship that she will end once she is out of the marriage (no way the other man will allow it long term). When you have a losing hand, flip the table over and get a new one. This may not work but it gives you a better chance than the hand that you have now.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> The last thing I want to do is push her away, and do something threatening. She still wants to spend time as a family, strangely enough. She even encouraged me to book a family trip for this coming July 4th weekend. Strange, huh?


 No it isn't strange, you created this family dynamic all by yourself. You cheated and stayed together as a family unit. Are you going to tell me all family life stopped and you guys never went on trips after you cheated multiple times?


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

mindsink said:


> During this time, she talked to her best friend and also her father. She indicated that both of them gave her the advice to leave me, and suggested that this affair is OK and justified. SMH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ask your wife if your old child punches your younger child today, is it okay for your younger child to punch your older child in 3 years? Of course it's not. And yes it's that simple.

What you did was wrong. What she's doing is JUST AS WRONG.

She could've left you. She could've said, the reconciliation isn't working for me and divorced you. But no, she pretends to be happy and then goes off with another guy.

Both of you have screwed up. I can see why your wife couldn't get past your infidelities. Sleeping with escorts...come on! BUT that simply means she should've left you 3 years ago. It would've been much easier on the family than this.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Thanks for ALL of your responses. I'm very grateful.

I want to stand up and make my case. These are the feelings that I've had all along -- that her cheating is just as bad, if not worse than mine. Over the past week since this has happened, I've talked to her every night. I've tried to play myself as the cause and her as simply the victim. Your words have reinstated my confidence in my stance. I will no longer be her doormat.

With that said, we have a joint therapy session next week. I think I'd feel most comfortable revealing my stance in this session. I feel like with the therapist there, there is a mediator, because I know she will fire back, and fire back hard.

Thoughts?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

PBear said:


> Your marriage was dead years ago, after you got caught for the 4th time. You just didn't know it. Let her go. If she wants to rebuild things with you, she will let you know. In the meantime, work on fixing yourself. Your best chance is to demonstrate through your actions that you're a new man.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This. I really didn't even need to read about the fallout from her affair. She is done. As she should be. She likely stayed with you because at that time she had no other options. Now she has one and is ready to bail.

If I were advising her, Option C is the one I would tell her to do. I think it would be best for both of you.

If she happened to change her mind and stay with you, I do believe your marriage would be poisoned, and your wife would likely keep shopping.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Gabriel said:


> This. I really didn't even need to read about the fallout from her affair. She is done. As she should be. She likely stayed with you because at that time she had no other options. Now she has one and is ready to bail.
> 
> If I were advising her, Option C is the one I would tell her to do. I think it would be best for both of you.
> 
> If she happened to change her mind and stay with you, I do believe your marriage would be poisoned, and your wife would likely keep shopping.


I disagree. She has been nothing but faithful to me until now. She had to reach rock bottom in her mental state to be even allowed to open her heart to someone else. She's told me of people who have come onto her before at work over the years. She's always stayed faithful, and I believe her.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

mindsink said:


> Yes, we can sustain on only one income, but just barely. The thing is, even if she decides to leave me for this other guy, I want to stay close in her life because she's such an amazing friend and a wonderful mother to our kids.
> 
> Also, I'm afraid of how she will react if she finds out I ratted on them. That might completely shut the door on me.


I'm sure it's been said... I just got off a plane.

She will be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS. But too bad. Look she won't reconcile with you if her affair isn't blown up with a nuke. 

Chances of this working out long term if you expose? 2 percent. 

Chances of it working out long term if you don't? 1 percent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

TRy said:


> Second, your cheating is different than her cheating in a big way. Her cheating is far worse.


:bsflag:


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

mindsink said:


> Yes, we can sustain on only one income, but just barely. The thing is, even if she decides to leave me for this other guy, I want to stay close in her life because she's such an amazing friend and a wonderful mother to our kids.
> 
> Also, I'm afraid of how she will react if she finds out I ratted on them. That might completely shut the door on me.


Do you want to be friends with her or respected? The choice is yours.

And in a few months ask yourself what kind of friend she turned out to be.

Again I know you feel guilt for your past indiscretions.

But that does not excuse her actions. Not one bit.

And stop thinking days down the road and start taking a long term approach.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

mindsink said:


> I disagree. She has been nothing but faithful to me until now. She had to reach rock bottom in her mental state to be even allowed to open her heart to someone else. She's told me of people who have come onto her before at work over the years. She's always stayed faithful, and I believe her.


I believe her too. Thing is, she has high standards. You've said it yourself - she is highly intelligent, driven, etc. She wasn't going to just bang guys or pick some average guy. 

But she found him now. And now that she has, and BECAUSE it took her so long, I think your quest to get her back has very little hope. 

This is why I agree with others than think Door C is the correct one in your case. Too much damage has been done on both sides.

Think of it this way. Can you imagine her crawling back to you now? And then somehow you both live married for 10, 20, 30 years carrying all that you've both done?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

mindsink said:


> The reason I cheated on her with escorts is simple -- sexual gratification. Nothing more, nothing less. I was addicted to the lifestyle, and the challenge of planning and hunting.
> 
> I have personally overcome it, I believe. I went to a group therapy session, had a life threatening illness in 2012 which completely changed the outlook regarding my health. I have been clean for 3 years and have no desire to go back to that lifestyle.
> 
> This jerk-off supervisor is also married to a woman for 14 years and has two young children of their own. Their situation is different than ours because the OM's wife has been faithful to him the whole time.


This just shows what an even bigger scumbag boss man is. Faithful wife at home. As mentioned he has no desire to marry your wife. 

I hate predator bosses. Should be fired and forced to mop up cum in a brothel for a living.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Lila said:


> How can you rationalize that his "cheat[ing] on [his] wife with escorts many times in the span of 5 years" is ANY LESS harmful to a marriage that her cheating with her boss for three months?


 I am not saying that the cheating is any less harmful. I am saying that what she has done after her cheating was found out has been more hurtful. Also, she has worked there for a year, so we do not really know if her affair only lasted 3 months; would not take a cheaters word for it. 



Lila said:


> Would it have been better if she had hired a Gigolo to tell her she's pretty and [email protected]# her senseless, of course, as long as she apologized each and every time she hired him for that purpose?


 If she was truly sorry, meant to stop cheating each time that she was caught, and gave him the dignity of admitting that she was in the wrong, yes it would have been better. In the end he broke his addiction to cheating and has been clean for 3 years. He never tried to say that it was OK that he cheated.



Lila said:


> Cheating is cheating regardless of whether you're paying someone to screw you or getting it for free. It doesn't make it any less WRONG to have if the OM/OW is a hooker or a layman.


 I absolutely agree that cheating is cheating. It is how she handled it once her cheating was exposed that is more hurtful. He never tried to hold the moral high ground when he treated.



Lila said:


> :lol: :rofl: I'm the product of such an experience so please forgive me if I find this comment to be absolutely absurd.


 Since this topic touches a nerve, I will try to be more sensitive to your view in future posts.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

vellocet said:


> She would not be the one to lose her job. Because this is a boss/subordinate relationship, if they fired her, then SHE could sue the company. It happened where I work. The premise? The company didn't do anything to stop a boss from preying on the subordinate, even though it was completely consensual.


I'm not sure what her contract and/or employee code of conduct spell out, but agree overall. The place I worked for will and has fires both. OP wouldn't see a dime in a lawsuit but it's always fun to threaten one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> Thanks for ALL of your responses. I'm very grateful.
> 
> I want to stand up and make my case. These are the feelings that I've had all along -- that her cheating is just as bad, if not worse than mine.


Really?

Ok, let me ask you this. First off I don't condone cheating at all. Revenge affairs, IMO, ARE just AS bad as the original offense....but not worse.

So my question is, do you think she would have cheated if you hadn't first and multiple times?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I'm not sure what her contract and/or employee code of conduct spell out, but agree overall. The place I worked for will and has fires both. OP wouldn't see a dime in a lawsuit but it's always fun to threaten one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's the way it should be. But there are some crafty lawyers out there.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Sorry, a guy paying family money for sex with many hookers with a pregnant wife at home. Did you have sex with your pregnant wife? While you were seeing escorts? Timeline seems to indicate that.

It exposes your wife to STDs. It exposes your unborn child to STDs. Or worse. 

But by all means, let's rank whom was worse to whom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think it's past time for both of you to stop being so selfish and to start acting with honor.

This means that you completely understand what you did to your marriage with your hooker lifestyle. You have addressed that, but I don't believe that you have come out of yourself enough to see what it really meant to your W and children.

This means that your W get off the high ground that she has assumed & accept that she is treating the OM's wife as if she is just insignificant background noise, instead of a human being whose life is now in ruins because of your W's selfish actions.

This means stepping back from the self-absorbed navel-gazing that you are both indulging in and talking SERIOUSLY about what you need to do to raise healthy children now that you have both messed up so epically.

You both need to grow up and start acting like respectable adults.

Why did you choose to have children if you were going to act the way that you have? Why was satisfying the 'hunt' more important for you than your family? Why is the OM's wife not worth your W's respect?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TRy said:


> I am not saying that the cheating is any less harmful. I am saying that what she has done after her cheating was found out has been more hurtful.


 Really? How so? No, I'm serious because the only way your point makes sense is trying to rationalize a lover vs an escort. He did the same thing for 5 years, but since he sobered up hers is worse? Seriously, how so? I tend to get your arguments, but I must be missing something because they did the exact same thing to each other, the only difference is the type of affair partners.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

TRy said:


> I am not saying that the cheating is any less harmful. I am saying that what she has done after her cheating was found out has been more hurtful. Also, she has worked there for a year, so we do not really know if her affair only lasted 3 months; *would not take a cheaters word for it*.


But you'll take his


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

"Hunt" is picking up chicks in a bar.

This was a business transaction. As "thrilling" as buying groceries.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

mindsink said:


> The other problem is that my wife is very, VERY smart -- particularly when it comes to relationships and personal interactions. Because of this, I feel that she has built a wall for herself against listening to anyone else (even a therapist), because she thinks she has all the answers. She has justified this affair because of our past. She thinks everything will be roses after we split and the kids will be fine.


Her IQ is the reason both of you are out. She's in her prime and can do better than one guy who felt he needed to pay escorts to fill up holes in his life and another guy who she used to verify her desirability as a woman and to even the score with you. Your out Dawg. She's done figured out you ain't got nothing that can't be easily replaced and she after an upgrade. BTW, she has justified the affair (you had it coming) and the kids will be ok, especially without a "*****hopper" as her mate. Kids from broken homes on average do just as well, and sometimes better, than those where the parents stay together. Besides, it sounds like it won't be long before someone else is filling your shoes. From what you describe, the gal is searching for the right attributes; self-esteem, career driven, and thoughtful. Think about it Dawg, won't her and the kids be better off if she can land a man like that?


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

The problem is, I really want to get back together with her. She is the love of my life. But I'm tired of making excuses for her. I'm tired of hiding behind my feelings. I just need to know when it would be a good time to reveal all of this to her. During our next therapy session? Should I do it right away?


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Besides, it sounds like it won't be long before someone else is filling your shoes. From what you describe, the gal is searching for the right attributes; self-esteem, career driven, and thoughtful. Think about it Dawg, won't her and the kids be better off if she can land a man like that?


In theory, yes, they'd be better off. But this is probably the hardest part of this all. I want to be the only father in their lives. I love them more than anything. I always want to be there to tuck them in bed every night and kiss them goodbye every morning. This is why I plan on fighting for sole custody. Do you think I have a leg to stand on, since I also cheated for so long?


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

mindsink said:


> The problem is, I really want to get back together with her. She is the love of my life. But I'm tired of making excuses for her. I'm tired of hiding behind my feelings. I just need to know when it would be a good time to reveal all of this to her. During our next therapy session? Should I do it right away?


Your feelings and what-not are irrelevant to her (as her's was when you did your thing at the time). 

If there's a snowball's chance in hell to R it will be from her. You only have one course of action and that's to separate and head towards a D, do not push for an R. Once you are out of her life then that's when the option to R will appear for her. As long as you are around it muddies up things.

FYI, she isn't going to ride into the sunset with the OM, only 3% of professional men marry their mistresses and those married have a 75% D rate. Hell my FWW talked about marrying her OM back in the day but it was all just pie in the sky fantasy and today she hates him with a purple passion.

As they say, "You don't know what you got until it's gone" so be gone.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

mindsink said:


> I just need to know when it would be a good time to reveal all of this to her. During our next therapy session? Should I do it right away?


A good time to do it would have been thirty minutes after you 
decided to marry her and certainly before you started picking up hookers. Why should she believe anything you have to say? I can hear it now, "hey baby, now I realize you're all I need. I don't have to hire hookers anymore". I'll bet money you're SOL my man.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

mindsink said:


> During this time, she talked to her best friend and also her father. She indicated that both of them gave her the advice to leave me, and suggested that this affair is OK and justified. SMH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll make a comment...when it reaches page 97.. I promise


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> A good time to do it would have been thirty minutes after you
> decided to marry her and certainly before you started picking up hookers. Why should she believe anything you have to say? I can hear it now, "hey baby, now I realize you're all I need. I don't have to hire hookers anymore". I'll bet money you're SOL my man.


That's not what I was asking at all. I was talking about revealing my feelings towards the situation. How I will put my foot down and no longer accept her affair. I want to stand up for myself and I will no longer compromise my dignity and continue to enable. If she goes out this weekend with him, I'm thinking I will tell her to don't come back.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Lila said:


> I guess I'm one of those people who believes that actions speak louder than words.
> 
> An apology without true remorse is worthless.


Exactly.

She repeated what he did, which he admits he did four different times, so I find it strange that what she is doing is different and worse. They remained together so, he most likely apologized numerous times and broke his word as well. The only difference I see is she affected two families instead of one like he did.


mindsink said:


> That's not what I was asking at all. I was talking about revealing my feelings towards the situation. How I will put my foot down and no longer accept her affair. I want to stand up for myself and I will no longer compromise my dignity and continue to enable. If she goes out this weekend with him, I'm thinking I will tell her to don't come back.


You should. Yes, you were a cheater, but it doesn't mean you need to accept an affair. Yep, she is just as wrong as you no matter who did it first. Be prepared for the fall out because it is going to get ugly.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

file for D then. It has to be that.... She doesn't respect you and you need to take initiative to gain it back.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

mindsink said:


> That's not what I was asking at all. I was talking about revealing my feelings towards the situation. How I will put my foot down and no longer accept her affair. I want to stand up for myself and I will no longer compromise my dignity and continue to enable. If she goes out this weekend with him, I'm thinking I will tell her to don't come back.


This^^^ plus why at this point are you going to a therapy session if she is still screwing him.:scratchhead:
Confirm with his wife that she really knows what is going on please.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mindsink said:


> That's not what I was asking at all. I was talking about revealing my feelings towards the situation. How I will put my foot down and no longer accept her affair. I want to stand up for myself and I will no longer compromise my dignity and continue to enable. If she goes out this weekend with him, I'm thinking I will tell her to don't come back.


 Tell her now. Do not yell or be angry.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Lila said:


> Okay, okay. Jokes on us. We fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
> 
> I think this one begins with a Tr and rhymes with Atoll. :rofl:


I don't get it.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

tom67 said:


> This^^^ plus why at this point are you going to a therapy session if she is still screwing him.:scratchhead:
> Confirm with his wife that she really knows what is going on please.


I have no contact with his wife. I don't know her name. I'm going to the therapy session because in the next one, I'm going to see if she can be convinced to stop her affair during our supposed "2 month trial".

She definitely knows what's going on. She already went to their company with both her kids in hand and threatened her husband. The situation was contained before any truth was revealed. She was escorted out by security.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

mindsink said:


> I have no contact with his wife. I don't know her name. I'm going to the therapy session because in the next one, I'm going to see if she can be convinced to stop her affair during our supposed "2 month trial".


Use a search site like spokeo and use his name you might get his address then.
Call a PI get going on this and don't tell your wife.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

are you guys religious at all? maybe a bout of religion would help out, help reset both of your moral footings. For instance, I can see some justification for her revenge affair, but with a married man? 

She is hurting the wife, and his wife is justly fighting back. 

What makes her think she will ever get this OM? He is married, odds are good he is just playing her for sex.

If it were me, I would delay the decision on "C". Get her to stay in your house. And really try to work are the marriage. As her fog wears off, and as she starts to see the OM will not leave the marriage for her...plan B will start to look better to her!


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

murphy5 said:


> are you guys religious at all? maybe a bout of religion would help out, help reset both of your moral footings. For instance, I can see some justification for her revenge affair, but with a married man?
> 
> She is hurting the wife, and his wife is justly fighting back.
> 
> ...


She is Catholic. The problem is, it takes two to work on the marriage and right now, there is only one person willing to do that (me).


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

Honestly, if I cheated on my wife and was caught, not once, but FOUR times...I'd just let her go. She should have just left 3 years ago. Sorry..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

First of all, your wife is not smart. Anyone who thinks with their crotch has dropped more than a few I.Q. points.

Secondly, you need to put your foot down now. You may have been a cowardly cheater but you didn't stay that way. You may have had sex with wh0res but that is no excuse for your wife to become one.

Your children are, and will continue to suffer for your past behavior and your WW current behavior.

You need to blow this up. You are still being a bit of a coward when this situation calls for a steely eyed man with resolve to do what is right.

You have become a cuckold. Expose the affair at her workplace, make her have repercussions for her crappy behavior and the posom as well.

This situation is going to play hell with your kids, stand up for them at least. You have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it.

Ultimately, your wife needs a strong man in her life, not a pushover cuckold. 

Blow this thing up!!! You have already lost your wife and your respect and dignity. At least you can get your dignity back.

Kick her to the curb and file for divorce, while exposing this whole sordid mess. Nothing else is likely to brake her out of this "fog" she is in.

Take this course of action and don't falter. Do the 180. Make it your new religion.

Understand, YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST YOUR WIFE!

What you are currently doing is wrong and will not help.

Be a better man and, as a possible side effect, your wife might snap out of it, quit exploring her inner wh0re and reconcile.

She might not but you will be a better man.

Your infidelity is no excuse for her acting like a gutter tramp.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

mindsink said:


> I have no contact with his wife. I don't know her name. I'm going to the therapy session because in the next one, I'm going to see if she can be convinced to stop her affair during our supposed "2 month trial".
> 
> *She definitely knows what's going on. She already went to their company with both her kids in hand and threatened her husband. The situation was contained before any truth was revealed. She was escorted out by security*.


And your wife told you this?

How did your wife feel about the OMW being escorted out of the office like she did something wrong?

Does your wife feel responsible for the breakup of their family as well???

Ask her.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

mindsink said:


> PhillyGuy13 - Thanks for your comments. Here is some more detail to the story.
> 
> The OM's wife also knows because he dropped the bombshell to her also. They have also agreed to a two-month trial period, but I believe he's purely stringing her along and get her to cool down and heal so that she doesn't end up doing something crazy (like calling HR at work).


Even money that the four of you have the same counselor.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK I have been reading your entire thread so far and here are my observations and understanding of the situation:


3 years ago you stopped visiting prostitutes (something you did a sum total of 4 separate times) for sexual gratification and the thrill of the hunt. She forgave you and you BOTH decided to continue with your marriage.

Your wife gets a new job complete with [email protected] boss and decides to sample the goods he has on offer (she feels entitled to do what she wanted to do except that in the past when she wanted to do this she did not cross boundaries that were set up by your marriage) - lust is lust and she went ahead and cheated.

So now the two of you are cheaters. You did yours for short term gratification. She is doing hers for (in her mind) longer term and (to your family unit) potentially more damaging gratification. In any case, you may be responsible for the problem in your relationship - she on the other hand is completely responsible for her affair. Two wrongs don't make a right, revenge affairs are never right, etc etc.

You need to treat her as you would had you discovered her cheating without you having cheated before. Kick her to the curb and start distancing yourself from her until she stops the affair.

She is already gone and is currently damaging your children and yourself, so you have very little to lose by blowing this up.

You need to proceed with D full speed ahead and start protecting your assets and custody to your children. She and POSOM are now the enemy - pure and simple. Yes, yes I know that you love her and all that, but you need to snap out of this now!

You handled your exposure and came back for true R - and are continuing to to pay for it till today. She has done nothing about her affair - she needs to acknowledge her wrong-doing, stop it completely, apologise (yes apologise) to you, expose her POS boss and get him fired, apologise to the OMW, and demonstrate true remorse. Anything short of this and I would not even consider taking her back (you had to do this and manned up and did it).

Unfortunately, she is not going to do this as long as she is active in the affair and feels entitled and justified - hence the need for you to blow this up and make life very difficult at work especially for him. Also to help the OMW is the right thing to do for her as she and her family and your kids are the real innocents here.

Don't beat yourself up too much about her bad and disrespectful behaviour - you did something wrong, owned up to it and faced it and put your heavy lifting in to R properly. She has been lying to you if she did not accept your R at the time (which she did by the way).

As I said, treat her like you would had you discovered her affair for the first time and without you having strayed before.

My tuppence worth!


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

mindsink said:


> How I will put my foot down and no longer accept her affair. I want to stand up for myself and I will no longer compromise my dignity and continue to enable. If she goes out this weekend with him, I'm thinking I will tell her to don't come back.


Here's the thing Dawg, post retirement I taught law as an adjunct professor for five years. This is not legal advise. You should consult an attorney licensed to practice in your state but here's my take. This crap about throwing the woman (or man) out of their place of abode is pure fantasy. No state that I'm aware of will allow you to do that without sanction by the courts. Neither are you going to get sole custody based on her purported behavior. 
The bottom line is that you're stuck with packing up, getting you a place to stay and filing for divorce if she rejects your efforts to "put your foot down". 
It would suit me fine if I didn't hear any more sh-t from guys talking about how they are going stuff her clothes in plastic bags, kick the woman out, and change the locks if she doesn't behave herself. If the wife was a client of the old boys I use to run with, the husband who pull this stunt would be lucky if the had enough left to buy a cup of coffee when they were done with them.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Spoken like a true attorney.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Spoken like a true attorney.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op,

You made your bed, now you lie in... 

Nothing, nothing, nothing is ever the same once the person we love cheats on us...
because of your stupid, selfish, cruel behavior, action, and love, you manage to really fVck up another person that just might not had, had you just loved her the way you promised you would... you've got no one to blame but yourself... 

-sammy


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

No matter how faithful she was before, that ship has sailed. As far as equivalencies in your betrayals that's up for discussion. You didn't cheat with someone who had a family to be dealt with.

The true question in my mind is, if you want to be with her, how you can allow her to continue her connection to another? Tell her sooner than later that you will not share her love or her body with someone else. Give her someone she can respect by being completely honest and upfront about how you feel.

If after telling her what you want she doesn't want you then you must take the steps necessary to end he relationship with your dignity, or what's left of it, intact.

Good luck,

Seasalt


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> And your wife told you this?
> 
> How did your wife feel about the OMW being escorted out of the office like she did something wrong?
> 
> ...


Yes, she told me this. She calls her "his crazy wife". She seemingly has no sympathy for her. I told her last night that in some ways, I feel compassion for this guy's wife. She replies, "of course you would".


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Look up the 180. It's a tactic people use to detach themselves emotionally from people, especially cheaters.

What it does is tell your wife you are ready to move on. As long as she is in her affair, you pull the 180. 

You don't do "happy family" things together. 
You don't make nice.
You don't argue or fight.
You don't dote on your wife at all.
But you also don't attack or be mean.
You start going to the gym.
You start going out with friends.
You act confident and calm, but not conceited.
You take the kids out for daddy/kid time without mommy.
You stay cordial with your wife, but no affection.

This will remove her little comfort blanket she has. See, she has you as the security blanket - the daddy, a method for not making waves with the kids, a way to enjoy all the normal things while she spreads her legs for the OM and lets him have all the exciting fun. It's called Cake Eating 101.

You want this to stop? Pull the 180. 

This will accomplish either A, B, or both.

A = you will successfully detach and begin realizing how toxic this is and that you are better off divorcing

B = your wife will see that she can't eat her cake anymore, realize you are the safer bet, and drop her affair.

Either way (or both), you win.

Counseling will not accomplish anything in your case.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I am deeply disturbed by your wife words and behavior......tell me this bothers you...is this the influence you want around your children?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

HHH said:


> I am unclear how exposing the affair at work would help anyone. Follow through the scenario....they both lose their jobs and go running back to their spouses??? Maybe? Doubt it. Like it or not (and right now you like) you have to co-parent with this woman for many years. Being amicable when there are kids involved is a GOOD thing. You still care for her and I understand you r need/desire for her to end the relationship with the OM. By not doing so she has basically NOT decided to work on your relationship. Your wife must be the one to end it. Not be forced to, but because she WANTS to. You can only control your behavior. Fight for her gently (if you decide she is what you want) but at the same time learn some coping skills for you in case it doesn't go your way.


Holy crap!

Maybe he should offer to wash her panties out after the posom has finished using her like a toilet??!!!

Great strategy. Maybe he could get invited on one of her dates and hold her hand while she is getting banged?

Bizarre!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Sounds like your wife tried to R with you for 2.5 years and she decided she couldn't handle it anymore. Unfortunately, instead of just divorcing you and moving on, she thought it would be fine to have an exit affair. I WOULD sympathize with your wife TBH because in some cases I think a revenge affair is acceptable; however, she's now WORSE than you ever were because now she's working on ruining another family. You ruined yours, she ruined someone else's. 

Your kids deserve better than what either of you people can give them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

mindsink said:


> Yes, she told me this. She calls her "his crazy wife". She seemingly has no sympathy for her. I told her last night that in some ways, I feel compassion for this guy's wife. She replies, "of course you would".


So your wife is happily banging another woman's husband, the other woman doesn't like this and so is crazy?

Your wife is crazier than a bag of cats on speed! Her cheese has fallen out of her sandwich!
Do you get it? There is no reasoning with someone this far gone.


You need to act, not talk. Start kicking some ass or get used to hoping to get another mans leftovers!

Your wife needs a man she can respect. First you cheated and now you are a whiny ****! 
Grab your balls and start earning some respect! Nothing else is going to work for anyone involved.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> So your wife is happily banging another woman's husband, the other woman doesn't like this and so is crazy?
> 
> Your wife is crazier than a bag of cats on speed! Her cheese has fallen out of her sandwich!
> Do you get it? There is no reasoning with someone this far gone.
> ...


When it's this far gone theres not much you can do but drop her, and never ever let it happen again with the next one!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

OP, your only real hope of getting your wife back is to _stop trying to get her back_. Sounds weird, right? Let me explain... 

I'm not saying that you should just throw in the towel and give up on your marriage. What I'm saying is that you need to take a stand and tell your WW what you will and won't accept. And yeah, it really sucks that -- due to your past infidelities -- you don't have any sort of moral high ground to fall back on, but you can't do sh*t about that now.

Start taking options away from her. Right now she feels like she has 3 options -- you, OM, or neither of you. Well, from your perspective, that really boils down to only 2 options... _you_ and _*not* you_.

It's OK to tell your WW that you love her. It's OK to tell your WW that you want to remain in your marriage, _and for it to work_. It's OK to tell your WW that you want to keep your family intact. But, within the very same breath, you have to also tell her that you won't stand for her current behavior.

Again, stand up for yourself! Hell, even your WW has been telling you to do this. What I've taken away from reading everything that she's said to you about wanting you to be a better person, better man, etc, is that she's essentially yelling at you to "*Man up!*"

Stop dawdling and dithering. Stand up for yourself. Respect yourself. Set and enforce boundaries. _*She's practically begging you for this!*_

Now with regard to workplace exposure... Honestly, this may not work in your favor; in fact, given what I've read thus far, it could very well serve only to bring your WW and OM even closer together. If there's any hope for your marriage, however, one of them will need to get a new job. 

Obviously you can't force OM to do anything, but a hard stance that you need to take w/ your wife should she choose to stay in your marriage is that she commits to having absolutely no contact (NC) w/ OM going forward, which means that she'll need to get a new job. If she's as successful and driven as you've described, that should be no problem for her, as well as a very (relatively) small concession for her to make in order to keep your family whole.

If your WW won't commit to these things, well then there's your answer... Take the "you" option away from her, and move on. Either way, you need to work on improving yourself, and you need to do it for _you_, as well as your children. If your wife chooses to come along for the ride, that's awesome; if not, there are plenty of other women out there.

Again, your primary goal either way should be to improve yourself in order to ensure that you're worthy of the woman that you love... and whether that's now, tomorrow, next week, or next year... and whether it's your _current_ wife or another woman.

Have you considered reaching out to OMW to compare notes?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing Dawg, post retirement I taught law as an adjunct professor for five years. This is not legal advise. You should consult an attorney licensed to practice in your state but here's my take. This crap about throwing the woman (or man) out of their place of abode is pure fantasy. No state that I'm aware of will allow you to do that without sanction by the courts. Neither are you going to get sole custody based on her purported behavior.
> The bottom line is that you're stuck with packing up, getting you a place to stay and filing for divorce if she rejects your efforts to "put your foot down".
> It would suit me fine if I didn't hear any more sh-t from guys talking about how they are going stuff her clothes in plastic bags, kick the woman out, and change the locks if she doesn't behave herself. If the wife was a client of the old boys I use to run with, the husband who pull this stunt would be lucky if the had enough left to buy a cup of coffee when they were done with them.


I agree with this - I think the kick her to the curb is just figuratively speaking and once this goes legal its going to get expensive for you both. As we have already seen on TAM!

Maybe, she is also showing you who she really is. You cheated, got caught and was truly sorry. Not so for her. She cheated, got caught and feels entitled about it. However thats not all. Not feeling any guilt or compassion for the OMW and his kids is telling.

Also don't feel compelled to stay together for the kids - as others are saying, this environment is much more toxic to them. And as for your self healing - start with self respect: she would not allow you to continue seeing prostitutes once you were outed, would she? 

You need to lawyer up soon since she is flaunting the affair in the faces of not just you but your friends and family. This is pure disrespect and does nothing for your self-esteem (you cannot heal or improve yourself properly while this is going on) - find out from a lawyer what you can restrict her to etc. As I said before, she is now your enemy - treat her as such (for your own good and the good of your kids).

Don't waste time doing this as every minute counts at this stage.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

A couple of hours ago, I spoke to a counselor over the phone. It's a well known site, and I'm not sure if it can be mentioned here. Anyways, a lot of the techniques that were explained to me are contradictory to a lot of the advice given here.

Basically, to out her/OM at work, or to stand my ground and "kick her to the curb" will both be counter productive. I've been advised to keep my distance. Let her know the boundaries. But any attempts to discredit or paint their relationship in a bad light will only get her more defensive.

She initiates conversation every night. She seeks comfort in my words. I need to use this opportunity to swing things my way. I can only take the advice of "kick her to the curb" if I'm 100% prepared to walk away from the marriage. At this point, I am not. I still have hope for her.

I'm not sure what to do here. I have had great (and conflicting) advice today.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

To be fair, it would seem that OP is listening to at least _some_ of what is being said here. He's in a somewhat unique situation due to his own past infidelities and in that his WW hasn't yet (and hopefully won't) become a WAW, and so it follows that much of the advice that is given regularly here may need to be tailored to better fit his current situation.

Either way, let's not chase him off... we can't help him if we do that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You broke her. Then you broke her again. Then, just be make absolutely certain, you broke her again.

As has been pointed out, we reap what we sew. 

However, you need to expose them in order to save her and the OMs wife.

You might be able to work on your marriage but fix yourself first.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

mindsink said:


> A couple of hours ago, I spoke to a counselor over the phone. It's a well known site, and I'm not sure if it can be mentioned here. Anyways, a lot of the techniques that were explained to me are contradictory to a lot of the advice given here.
> 
> Basically, to out her/OM at work, or to stand my ground and "kick her to the curb" will both be counter productive. I've been advised to keep my distance. Let her know the boundaries. But any attempts to discredit or paint their relationship in a bad light will only get her more defensive.
> 
> ...


Let me guess; SI?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> To be fair, it would seem that OP is listening to at least _some_ of what is being said here. He's in a somewhat unique situation due to his own past infidelities and in that his WW hasn't yet (and hopefully won't) become a WAW, and so it follows that much of the advice that is given regularly here may need to be tailored to better fit his current situation.
> 
> Either way, let's not chase him off... we can't help him if we do that.


True
But trying to "nice" her back will simply fail and what little respect she has for him now will be gonzo.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tom67 said:


> True
> But trying to "nice" her back will simply fail and what little respect she has for him now will be gonzo.


Not in all cases. I 'niced' my wife back, for example.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

tom67 said:


> True
> But trying to "nice" her back will simply fail and what little respect she has for him now will be gonzo.


Oh, I agree... He's not going to be able to "nice" her back. In fact, I've said as much.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Not in all cases. I 'niced' my wife back, for example.


Matt you are a special case.
You were the exception.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

tom67 said:


> True
> But trying to "nice" her back will simply fail and what little respect she has for him now will be gonzo.





MattMatt said:


> Not in all cases. I 'niced' my wife back, for example.


The strategy required to successfully bring a wayward spouse back into a marriage will almost universally depend on the following two minutiae...

* The reason(s) for which the wayward spouse strayed in the first place

* The (relative) emotional maturity and character makeup of the wayward spouse


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

3putt said:


> Let me guess; SI?


I was thinking MB...?


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

He was caught four times. Not cheated four times. CAUGHT. He cheated over a span of 5 years with escorts. He used funds he could have been using for his family to pay for this. 

Anyone saying his wife is crazy is right. She is crazy for staying with him as long as she did.

I am not an advocate for cheating AT ALL, EVER...but omg seriously people.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I was thinking MB...?


MB would never condone not exposing at the workplace. Believe it or not, they're more adamant about workplace exposure than this board is.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> He was caught four times. Not cheated four times. CAUGHT. He cheated over a span of 5 years with escorts. He used funds he could have been using for his family to pay for this.
> 
> Anyone saying his wife is crazy is right. She is crazy for staying with him as long as she did.
> 
> I am not an advocate for cheating AT ALL, EVER...but omg seriously people.


Look, no one here disagrees w/ that. He f*cked up. He knows it. He's owned it. And they agreed, as a couple, to work through the pain of his betrayals in order to reconcile... correct?

It could also be pointed out (putting on my fiberglass undies) that, while OP's infidelities were disgustingly horrid, it was never his aim or intent to break up his marriage, _let alone another marriage as well_.

By the way, OP, I wouldn't say ^this to your WW, as it would likely do little more than enrage her. Hell, you may very well have already figured that out first-hand.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindsink

Do what you think will work best for you.

But set a time limit in your mind that if nicing does not work you go to your backup plan.

HM


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Matt you are a special case.
> You were the exception.


Only because I didn't know what I was doing.

There are a couple of others who have "niced" a WS back. not many, however.

But then, in the main, my wife was "off script" so perhaps that was the difference?:scratchhead:


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> And they agreed, as a couple, to work through the pain of his betrayals in order to reconcile... correct?


Good point. I'm certainly not condoning his wife's behavior at all. But I can see how she may think she deserves this. If my wife paid for sex for 5 years, and I discovered it 4 out of who knows how many times...I'd probably feel entitled to an affair. 

I don't know... I've got an old thread wondering if my wife is cheating so I'm no stranger to the sinking feeling, etc....

I'm rambling..


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

3putt said:


> MB would never condone not exposing at the workplace. Believe it or not, they're more adamant about workplace exposure than this board is.


Eh... I'm still not sure it would work in this case. I could probably be convinced, though.

Go!


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

Do 180, it may be your only chance.
Be prepared to lose her by 180, but realize it is the only way to may put her out the fog.
If you keep doing the same you probably lose her anyway
Good luck


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... I'm still not sure it would work in this case. I could probably be convinced, though.
> 
> Go!


LOL...oh no, not this time. I'd do it anyway though.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> Yes, she told me this. She calls her "his crazy wife". She seemingly has no sympathy for her. I told her last night that in some ways, I feel compassion for this guy's wife. She replies, "of course you would".


She should know better than to be a party to betraying another person, let alone another wife.

She better watch it. If she is truly "crazy", then your wife just might get her eyeballs scratched out.

But that's what cheaters usually do. Badmouth the BS to make it look like their betrayal of them isn't that bad.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Not in all cases. I 'niced' my wife back, for example.


 You story is so unique, every time you use it as an example I want to argue with you. You and I will disagree on what constitutes "nicing" someone out of an affair. Your issue and continued marriage don't fit "nicing" in my opinion.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Suspecting2014 said:


> Do 180, it may be your only chance.
> Be prepared to lose her by 180, but realize it is the only way to may put her out the fog.
> If you keep doing the same you probably lose her anyway
> Good luck


Yep. My post outlines the parts of the 180 that he needs to implement.

The hard part though, is if she is initiating talks every night. What are the talks about? Are they about how you guys can get back together? If so, you partake in those talks. 

If the talks are about how she can keep having the OM in her life (in ANY way), then you put your hand up and say,

"I am happy to discuss our marriage with you and see how we can work towards a reconciliation if you are interested. But if the OM is still in the picture, that is not possible, and there isn't much to talk about."

Done.


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

Gabriel said:


> Yep. My post outlines the parts of the 180 that he needs to implement.
> 
> The hard part though, is if she is initiating talks every night. What are the talks about? Are they about how you guys can get back together? If so, you partake in those talks.
> 
> ...


Mindsink, 

Let me ask you a question,

When you were caught cheating, did you stop or did you made her watch from the front seat???

WAKE UP!! She is a cheater now!!

By her same line of thoughts:

She doesn't deserve your respect

She is destroying your family again and another family as well.

And the whole things she told you did and lost

You cheated first so she took you back, and you have your penitence, now she is at the same level so you can divorce or take her back.

If divorce, maybe is the best way, as you know affairs change everything!! So you can move on and get a new life.

But ii you take her back (if it happens or she agree) are you willing to be with her again without consequences???

Are you willing to let her keep her job (and her boss) remember for R no contact is a must.

Your only chance is to improve yourself about at least 2 things:

1 What are you going to do: Get fit, Apply for a new job better one, get some hobbies, spend more time with your kids.

2 BOUNDARIES (no more weekend with her boss, No contact OM with your Kind until she make up her mind, no more sexual contact with OM while MC) AND DEMANDS (No sex until a STD test, Transparency, etc).

Sorry but if you don’t do this your are PLAN B, and the problem is that there is always a PLAN A out there (co worker, at gym, etc).

She needs to choose, because if OM dumps her you are the leftovers.

Remember, she is a cheater now, be aware that you didn't make her a cheater, if she couldn't forgive you she should walked away not cheating
“Be aware, you can’t choose your feeling but you can choose what to do with them” she chose to cheat.

In a few words, DO 180 AND BE PREPARED TO LOSE HER.

PS Sorry for my English, it is not my country language


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Do what you think is best for yourself but make no mistake about it you are being played. and you will not realize that until its too late. good luck


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: Re: Wife is cheating, but I cheated first (NEED HELP PLEASE)*



mindsink said:


> A couple of hours ago, I spoke to a counselor over the phone. It's a well known site, and I'm not sure if it can be mentioned here. Anyways, a lot of the techniques that were explained to me are contradictory to a lot of the advice given here.
> 
> Basically, to out her/OM at work, or to stand my ground and "kick her to the curb" will both be counter productive. I've been advised to keep my distance. Let her know the boundaries. But any attempts to discredit or paint their relationship in a bad light will only get her more defensive.
> 
> ...


SI doesn't have counselors and he would have been advised to expose there too.

Mort Fertel and Divorce Busters has phone coaching. They recommend you sit back, work on yourself while you wait, don't cause any problems, and hope for WS to come back to the M. It never works. Get the shovel and bury the marriage now.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

anchorwatch said:


> SI doesn't have counselors and he would have been advised to expose there too.
> 
> Mort Fertel and Divorce Busters has phone coaching. They recommend you sit back, work on yourself while you wait, don't cause any problems, and hope for WS to come back to the M. It never works. Get the shovel and bury the marriage now.


You have to understand. I am very VERY new at this. I didn't know there were "two schools of thought" on this. And then how do I choose which one is right? I'm so desperate right now. You guys will say put the foot down. The other guys will say, it may work, but do that only when you're prepared to end the marriage and move on.

I don't want to bury the marriage. The marriage is what I'm trying to hold onto. Deep down inside, I know there is a woman who I fell in love with, and deep down inside, I know she still loves me. She still cares about my feelings. If she simply left and wrote me off, then why is she still living in the house with me? Why did she agree to a 2-month "trial"? Why does she talk to me every night about her feelings? I feel like she just needs a push in the right direction. By putting my foot down, I fear that it will simply draw her closer to the OM, someone who wants her, is fighting for her, is fighting to keep her away from me.

I don't know. I'm so confused and angry.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> But apparently it has worked for so many people.


It probably works damn near 100% of the time for the counselors.



mindsink said:


> I don't want to bury the marriage. The marriage is what I'm trying to hold on. Deep down inside, I know there is a woman who I fell in love with, and deep down inside, I know she still loves me. She still cares about my feelings. If she simply left and wrote me off, then why is she still living in the house with me?


For the kids. After all, it's not like the two of you are intimate or even sleeping in the same bed.



mindsink said:


> Why did she agree to a 2-month "trial"?


She wants some space to "find herself" i.e. let OM pound her out a bit more in order to fully determine how she feels about him vs. you.



mindsink said:


> Why does she talk to me every night about her feelings?


She's doing everything that she can to keep you on the hook as a solid Plan B. She's probably still getting significant amounts of emotional validation from you. And Hell, considering your past, watching you twist and writhe w/ anguish may very well be downright satisfying for her.

Plus she needs you to continue being there for the kids while she's off w/ OM.



mindsink said:


> I feel like she just needs a push in the right direction. By putting my foot down, I fear that it will simply draw her closer to the OM, someone who wants her, is fighting for her, is fighting to keep her away from me.
> 
> I don't know. I'm so confused and angry.


Your confusion is understandable, but you need to take a stand. Period.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Between your wife not sure if she wants to be alone or not, the multiple affairs you've had, the fact that her OM has his own marriage to deal with, that you say you and your wife seem to be getting along fairly well during all of this, and you have family/support near you....it sounds like a good setup for the two of you to just take a break for a while. Take off the constraints of marriage, and just breathe. Sounds like you both could use some truly self-focused IC. Truth be told, I feel like you guys have a real chance at reconciliation a little ways down the road....but it just seems like you need to sort out your own things first.


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## Csquare (Jan 14, 2014)

Maybe mindsink's wife never actually agreed to R after catching him 4 times with prostitutes. Maybe she stayed merely because she didn't want to lose 50% time with her kids in D. Maybe after his cheating, all they had is a friendship/marriage of convenience/co-parenting/FWB. Anything wrong with that?

Surely, he doesn't expect fidelity from her after breaking his vows numerous times. She likely doesn't expect it either. I agree with everyone that the real innocent victim is OM's wife.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Csquare said:


> Maybe mindsink's wife never actually agreed to R after catching him 4 times with prostitutes. Maybe she stayed merely because she didn't want to lose 50% time with her kids in D. Maybe after his cheating, all they had is a friendship/marriage of convenience/co-parenting/FWB. Anything wrong with that?
> 
> Surely, he doesn't expect fidelity from her after breaking his vows numerous times. She likely doesn't expect it either. I agree with everyone that the real innocent victim is OM's wife.


I don't agree.

Yes Mindsink screwed up. He admits it. 

His wife has screwed up now.

But obviously the reconciliation was false. 

Both of them cheating on each other does not void & nullify what has been done to the marriage. It does not void & nullify what has been done to the family unit.

The key is for Mindsink to get his wife to step back from the Affair. A revenge affair does not make the situation even. What it does is compound the issues and puts hurt on all parties involved. That means Mindsink. His wife. Their kids. The OM. The OMW. All the kids!!!!

So what did Mindsink's wife actually accomplish? She created a fricking disaster for all innocent parties involved.

What Mindsink needs to do is step back from the Infidelity.

How do you do that?

You expose the Affair. It really is simple. You do not tell your wife you are going to do this. Because her reaction will be much the same. She will blame you for everything.

The next 2 months will not accomplish a single thing if she is still boinking her boss.

So stop it.

And if your wife is not willing to stop it on her own then you step up to the plate. And do it yourself.

She will yell.
She will threaten.
She might even leave. Let her. Have her take the kids if she does.

Let her feel consequences.

Because the next 2 months will just be a repeat occurrence of your last few years.

A fake reconciliation. Or 2 months watching your wife bang her BF.

The choice is yours Mindsink.

What does your wife want? A mouse or a man.

Go be the man you were when she married you. I think you will see that is what she is looking for.

You really have very little to lose if you think about your current situation.

And if you expose to your families tell all the truth. Not just hers.

HM


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindsink

Some wise words from a previous poster. If you want to try being the nice guy this is the right way to do it.

HM

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

*Just Let Them Go*

The end result?

*The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you*.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Curious as to what happened after wife discovered the call-girls. What were the repercussions of all that? Did you separate? What was discussed at that time for the groundwork to reconcile?

Yes, wife should not have had her own affair, revenge or otherwise. But if all that was rug swept three years ago it is still a big contributing factor to the mess now.

There is no moral high-ground here. Only mud and sludge that unfortunately a 3 and a 6 year old are neck deep in.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

mindsink said:


> You have to understand. I am very VERY new at this. I didn't know there were "two schools of thought" on this. And then how do I choose which one is right? I'm so desperate right now. You guys will say put the foot down. The other guys will say, it may work, but do that only when you're prepared to end the marriage and move on.
> 
> I don't want to bury the marriage. The marriage is what I'm trying to hold onto. Deep down inside, I know there is a woman who I fell in love with, and deep down inside, I know she still loves me. She still cares about my feelings. If she simply left and wrote me off, then why is she still living in the house with me? Why did she agree to a 2-month "trial"? Why does she talk to me every night about her feelings? I feel like she just needs a push in the right direction. By putting my foot down, I fear that it will simply draw her closer to the OM, someone who wants her, is fighting for her, is fighting to keep her away from me.
> 
> I don't know. I'm so confused and angry.


If you can't do anything else, at least tell the OMW. That will stop the A and give you another set of eyes on the OM. Then you might have a chance. 

BTW the OM is not the better man. He proved that by his betrayal of his W and consorting with your W. He's of such low character that he'll through your W under the bus and run like the coward he is back to his W for forgiveness. He won't want to pay for it, once it's not free. (Alimony and child support to an Ex, and support a second household with your W) Does that make sense? 

Check your PMs


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

HHH said:


> ConanHub,
> 
> I am not suggesting he wash her panties. But what is his goal a year from now? He has young children - they have to co-parent. What would "outing" the relationship at work accomplish? More hostility and hurt. It won't make his wife drop the OM and come rushing back to him. I'm not trying to downplay what she did or say that she deserves to be treated better or he should have to listen to her problems with the OM in any way shape or form. I am just of the opinion that instigating an issue at work may cause him, her and the kids more harm than good.


While I feel this marriage is TOAST. He wants to reconcile with his wife. If they still work together, there is a 0.0% chance of reconciliation.

If one or both of them get fired, there is a 0.1% chance. They are no longer together day in day out.

Odds may be off but you get the picture.

I think he said the Wife is aware, right??

She can find a new job if need be. He said earlier they would struggle without her income but would get by.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You story is so unique, every time you use it as an example I want to argue with you. You and I will disagree on what constitutes "nicing" someone out of an affair. Your issue and continued marriage don't fit "nicing" in my opinion.


I allowed her affair to run its course, was there for her when she needed me to be. We attended civic functions and the like as a couple during that time.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I allowed her affair to run its course, was there for her when she needed me to be. We attended civic functions and the like as a couple during that time.


I'm not going to argue your story because I am barely an observer and you lived the betrayal. This newest bit of information, added with all of the rest, doesn't change my opinion. We just disagree on the definition of "nicing."


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

*UPDATE!!!*

Last night, we argued and fought over the situation. She is much further away from me than I thought. She is much closer to this new guy than I thought. I laid out all of my feelings on the table regarding the OM, and their relationship. She was mostly angry about how I'm trying to tell her what she's feeling, why she "thinks" she loves this guy, and she says I should never disrespect or cheapen the relationship that she has now. I probably shouldn't have gone there, and I may have appeared childish and went overboard at times. Big mistakes on my part.

She indicated to me that she felt our marriage has been over for almost a year, and that she's felt dead inside. She never wanted this affair and was trying to fight off her feelings for a long time. In the end, she felt things with this guy that she says she's never felt with me. She felt guilty. She didn't know how or when to tell me, until it was too late.

In the end, we both agreed that the kids' interest and needs come before anything. She says that kids raised by amicable separated parents are far better off than being raised by resentful and combative married parents who live in the same household. I can't really argue with that.

We have many issues and wounds that just need time to heal. I think the best thing is just to separate and see what happens. If she ends up long term with the OM, then so be it, but I need to move on with my life.

In the end, if divorce goes through, we will end up selling the house, splitting our finances, and finding separate places to live. For now, we will still be living in the same house until either one of us feels it's necessary to move out. At this point, neither of us do, and it's better for the children if they see both mom and dad every day. We will continue to sleep in separate rooms and help and support each other in raising our kids under this roof. At this point, I consider her a live-in domestic partner, and nothing more. That is the way I need to think.

I thank each and every one of you folks for your advice and support. Best regards.


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

Do 180, it is about you!

Try to get fitter, get better and improve your self esteem.

Fill divorce and star splitting finances.

Move away, being with her continuing the affair is very emasculating. You need to empower yourself, improve system, etc.

Your kids are going to be OK as long as you love them and spend time with them.

She is probably long gone, so move on!

Maybe with time she will come back to you, but don’t count on that, never ever count on that again. If any time further now it happens you make that call then.

She is a cheater, no matter how guilty she says she is. 

Don’t keep any hope for R, at this point it only will keep you from healing (yes you need to heal).

Read and learn at TAM

Good luck


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Living in the same house as your cheating wife is toxic all round to everyone! You, your kids - everyone.

You need to insist that she cannot be in a "marriage" and the same house while sleeping with another man. This is setting a very bad example for your kids not to mention the disrespect to you and the destruction that will wreak on you.

Everything that she is telling you is cheater speak for justifying what she has done and she clearly wants to have her cake and eat it too.

I strongly, strongly suggest that you blow this affair wide open - especially at their work and file for divorce as fast as you can while protecting yourself, custody, your finances and assets. Make no mistake - she is the enemy now. As is the POSOM. Co-parenting will happen regardless of what she says is best for the kids.

Do not waste any more time on this! Lawyer up and get going asap!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

And the only reason she is discussing him with you openly is because (a) she got caught, and (b) she feels entitled because of what you did 3 years ago. Not to be tolerated in any way!


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

You deserve everything you get!! she should have cheated on you ages ago. Your behavior was unacceptable, she did the right thing. I wish your wife good luck and lots of sucess in the future. She deserves it now that she found a good man.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Though its a shame that the "good" man that she found is somebody else's husband and a couple of young kids' father. Sounds like a real find!

You cheated and so did she. At the very least she is no better than you and probably worse - breaking up another family!


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

This is not mine, 

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them. 


Mindsink, in your current situation don't expect her to come back, no matter what you do, or feel.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> Though its a shame that the "good" man that she found is somebody else's husband and a couple of young kids' father. Sounds like a real find!
> 
> You cheated and so did she. At the very least she is no better than you and probably worse - breaking up another family!


He cheated for 5 years she did it for a few months. Her only mistake was that she didn't started cheating right from the start when she caught him the first time. No sympathy for men who use escorts, no offence.

She is bad but as bad as he is. I am so happy for her! although she should have chosen a single man, that's truth, she is breaking up a family but its his fault since he bought her into this situation. 

I am not putting any fault at her, i wonder what she has been through, poor woman. She really deserves a better man.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your situation is bad but not hopeless. 

Expose to OM's wife.

File for D. 

Do the 180.

Treat your STBXW politely. Maintain your dignity. Be a good parent. 

If you have any bad habits, like smoking or drinking, now is the time to shed them. Do not talk about the changes you make. Let your actions speak for themselves.

Stand straight. Send the vibe that you will survive and live a good life without her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Pattiroxxi said:


> He cheated for 5 years she did it for a few months. Her only mistake was that she didn't started cheating right from the start when she caught him the first time. No sympathy for men who use escorts, no offence.
> 
> She is bad but as bad as he is. I am so happy for her! although she should have chosen a single man, that's truth, she is breaking up a family but its his fault since he bought her into this situation.
> 
> I am not putting any fault at her, i wonder what she has been through, poor woman. She really deserves a better man.


Yes.... Fvcking her married boss like a slimy skank is sooooo very beautiful! 

Are you having a beautiful relationship with a married piece of sh!t?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I have to laugh at the typical TAM double standard here. This guy f$cked escorts for 5 years, exposed his wife to who knows what, and doesn't seem particularly remorseful about it. From his own mouth he got caught, it was just sex, he's outgrown that lifestyle so eh, no harm. And he's self righteous enough to convince himself her affair is worse, and of course the men of TAM are here to help with that. Nobody has asked him what HE did in terms of heavy lifting to demonstrate remorse. And of course he should expose, 180, file for divorce, the hell with her becauase he's really the poor victim here, because clearly he was so worried about his family while he was f$cking wh0res, which by the way he'd still be doing if he hadn't gotten caught.

Many of the same men that claimed it should be understood when Moment brought a sk$nk home in front of his children and f$cked her in the marital bed because he's hurting are now here to back this guy up. But because this is a betrayed woman things are different; she gets no consideration for being hurt. 

Her only sin is screwing a married man, but we know it would make no difference to TAM if the dude was single. OP, you deserve everything you get and I how your wife gets rid of married man and finds happiness with a decent guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

OP has only one thing to do. Stand up and become a man! Until then, no relationship he is in will succeed. His previous behaviors will only attract women with low self esteem. As soon as these woman realize they can have better they will will move on. 

As for his wife, she needs to work on herself too. She accepts these relationships, because she is not whole either. She needs to learn that a whole woman deserves a lot better than who her H is now, and her MOM. 

Mindsink, do you understand?


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Yes.... Fvcking her married boss like a slimy skank is sooooo very beautiful!
> 
> Are you having a beautiful relationship with a married piece of sh!t?


The only mistake she did was she chose someone who was married. Nothing more. He was fuc**ing those women just like she was with her boss, no difference. 

Your hatred is unessesary. What he did was a lot worse, simply because he was doing it for 5 years with women who have no self respect, and neither has he. Taking it as sexual gratification, nothing more, no remorse, no moral conscience, no respect. She was stupid she didn't file for D the first time she caught him.

No, i am not thank you. Although i was in a similar situation as the OP's wife was 3 years ago, i took action ASAP.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have to laugh at the typical TAM double standard here. This guy f$cked escorts for 5 years, exposed his wife to who knows what, and doesn't seem particularly remorseful about it. From his own mouth he got caught, it was just sex, he's outgrown that lifestyle so eh, no harm. And he's self righteous enough to convince himself her affair is worse, and of course the men of TAM are here to help with that. Nobody has asked him what HE did in terms of heavy lifting to demonstrate remorse. And of course he should expose, 180, file for divorce, the hell with her becauase he's really the poor victim here, because clearly he was so worried about his family while he was f$cking wh0res, which by the way he'd still be doing if he hadn't gotten caught.
> 
> Many of the same men that claimed it should be understood when Moment brought a sk$nk home in front of his children and f$cked her in the marital bed because he's hurting are now here to back this guy up. But because this is a betrayed woman things are different; she gets no consideration for being hurt.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have to laugh at the typical TAM double standard here. This guy f$cked escorts for 5 years, exposed his wife to who knows what, and doesn't seem particularly remorseful about it. From his own mouth he got caught, it was just sex, he's outgrown that lifestyle so eh, no harm. And he's self righteous enough to convince himself her affair is worse, and of course the men of TAM are here to help with that. Nobody has asked him what HE did in terms of heavy lifting to demonstrate remorse. And of course he should expose, 180, file for divorce, the hell with her becauase he's really the poor victim here, because clearly he was so worried about his family while he was f$cking wh0res, which by the way he'd still be doing if he hadn't gotten caught.
> 
> Many of the same men that claimed it should be understood when Moment brought a sk$nk home in front of his children and f$cked her in the marital bed because he's hurting are now here to back this guy up. But because this is a betrayed woman things are different; she gets no consideration for being hurt.
> 
> ...


I've been Asking these questions for a week, with zero response. And I'm a guy. Careful with the broad brush. I for one find OP actions and attitude abhorrent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

I think you'll find in the first few pages people not particularly feeling sorry for the OP.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have to laugh at the typical TAM double standard here. This guy f$cked escorts for 5 years, exposed his wife to who knows what, and doesn't seem particularly remorseful about it. From his own mouth he got caught, it was just sex, he's outgrown that lifestyle so eh, no harm. And he's self righteous enough to convince himself her affair is worse, and of course the men of TAM are here to help with that. Nobody has asked him what HE did in terms of heavy lifting to demonstrate remorse. And of course he should expose, 180, file for divorce, the hell with her becauase he's really the poor victim here, because clearly he was so worried about his family while he was f$cking wh0res, which by the way he'd still be doing if he hadn't gotten caught.
> 
> Many of the same men that claimed it should be understood when Moment brought a sk$nk home in front of his children and f$cked her in the marital bed because he's hurting are now here to back this guy up. But because this is a betrayed woman things are different; she gets no consideration for being hurt.
> 
> ...


Whoa! Nobody is suggesting that what he did was right or that he is in the right. He went to prostitutes as he has said several times over 5 years and got caught 4 times. He has said that he destroyed her trust and love. She should have thrown him out then. Why didn't she ?

He has also said that he has been clean for 3 years and has no wish to cheat again. He hasn't even said bad things about the POSOM (we have and he should have). He said that OM has the traits that would make his wife happy - self esteem, career driven and thoughtful. His wife is calling this cheating [email protected] her soul mate. OP is trying to recover from this. As far as I am concerned and from what I can glean he is showing real remorse. He loves his wife and is hurting. I, for one, am not going to kick him while he is down (just as I do not condone what he did).

At the moment the wife is completely fog bound. She "allowed" herself to "fall in love" because of what happened 3 years ago - understandable but not forgivable. She cheated. With a married man. Who has kids. And she is now considering dropping the OM because OMW is threatening her. 

Whether we are men or women looking at this, this is not good behaviour from her. There is no double standard. She should have divorced him when she caught him. Not stayed on and then "allowed" herself to cheat (as if it was a treat for her).

She is now destructive to this family. Hence the advice to OP to divorce her and let her go. How is this a double standard ?

And Pattiroxi has a particular aversion to massage parlours and escorts - I understand because of her personal experience. Many might say that it would have been worse if he had an EA/PA - who knows what is worse ? Both equally bad. However she is now flaunting this - not trying to cover it up - because she feels entitled. That is wrong. They should not be in the same house doing this with kids involved - much healthier to divorce. Thats the only advice we have given OP. Also since there is a slime ball involved (the predator that is her boss) we are making sure that the OP protects him and his (and stops seeing him as a good guy).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have to laugh at the typical TAM double standard here. This guy f$cked escorts for 5 years, exposed his wife to who knows what, and doesn't seem particularly remorseful about it. From his own mouth he got caught, it was just sex, he's outgrown that lifestyle so eh, no harm. And he's self righteous enough to convince himself her affair is worse, and of course the men of TAM are here to help with that. Nobody has asked him what HE did in terms of heavy lifting to demonstrate remorse. And of course he should expose, 180, file for divorce, the hell with her becauase he's really the poor victim here, because clearly he was so worried about his family while he was f$cking wh0res, which by the way he'd still be doing if he hadn't gotten caught.
> 
> Many of the same men that claimed it should be understood when Moment brought a sk$nk home in front of his children and f$cked her in the marital bed because he's hurting are now here to back this guy up. But because this is a betrayed woman things are different; she gets no consideration for being hurt.
> 
> ...


WRONG!!!

I am so outraged at what moment did that I have not been able to collect myself enough to respond!
I have also not been particularly gentle with OP. I lay the blame for his wife losing respect for him directly at his feet. 1st he cheated and now he is accepting essentially being a cuckold.

He certainly destroyed his marriage but what I have said about his wife stands.

She needs just as swift a kick in the ass as her husband and the posom needs taken down hard as well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Pattiroxxi said:


> The only mistake she did was she chose someone who was married. Nothing more. He was fuc**ing those women just like she was with her boss, no difference.
> 
> Your hatred is unessesary. What he did was a lot worse, simply because he was doing it for 5 years with women who have no self respect, and neither has he. Taking it as sexual gratification, nothing more, no remorse, no moral conscience, no respect. She was stupid she didn't file for D the first time she caught him.
> 
> No, i am not thank you. Although i was in a similar situation as the OP's wife was 3 years ago, i took action ASAP.


I am not comparing the OPs actions with his wife. They both suck butt.
His wife has no remorse, no moral conscience, and no self respect either.
I am telling OP to act like a man. To date, he has not.

If his wife was posting, I would tell her to start acting like a woman instead of a wh0re.

I am glad you took swift action in your situation and I am very sorry that your H decided to treat something precious like trash.

I am sure you agree that her course of actions have been far from an acceptable response?

You didn't respond by becoming a piece of trash as well did you?

I am only giving the advice that I believe has the best chance to put this horrible situation down swiftly, like the rabid and dangerous mongrel that it is.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> WRONG!!!
> 
> I am so outraged at what moment did that I have not been able to collect myself enough to respond!
> I have also not been particularly gentle with OP. I lay the blame for his wife losing respect for him directly at his feet. 1st he cheated and now he is accepting essentially being a cuckold.
> ...


To me you seem to blame his wife more than the OP which you shouldn't. She only did a small fraction of what he has previously caused.

He destroyed the family because of his own selfishness, you are being little ignorant. The wife is in a totally different situation as when the OP was. She has a valid reason, he didn't.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I am not comparing the OPs actions with his wife. They both suck butt.
> His wife has no remorse, no moral conscience, and no self respect either.
> I am telling OP to act like a man. To date, he has not.
> 
> ...


Well you should really compare their actions to decide who is the worse of the two, and who is responsible for the failure of the marriage. The result is clear.

Yes, i did, and i don't regret it. Both the OP and my H were the same, they both deserve what we did to them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Pattiroxxi said:


> To me you seem to blame his wife more than the OP which you shouldn't. She only did a small fraction of what he has previously caused.
> 
> He destroyed the family because of his own selfishness, you are being little ignorant. The wife is in a totally different situation as when the OP was. She has a valid reason, he didn't.


You and I will have to disagree. You believe there is a valid reason to become a cake eating wh0re and help destroy another woman's family so her crotch can have some strange.

I think there is no validation for her current actions. 

I hate all infidelity.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Pattiroxxi said:


> Well you should really compare their actions to decide who is the worse of the two, and who is responsible for the failure of the marriage. The result is clear.
> 
> Yes, i did, and i don't regret it. Both the OP and my H were the same, they both deserve what we did to them.


You helped destroy another woman's family? You screwed a married man with kids and came home to your kids acting like you weren't hurting them with your behavior?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

They are both vile. Let's stop the p!ssing contest to see who is worse than whom. 

Two small kids will be suffering because of these despicable, selfish adults.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> They are both vile. Let's stop the p!ssing contest to see who is worse than whom.
> 
> Two small kids will be suffering because of these despicable, selfish adults.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup.:iagree:
BTW. 

I was trying to avoid comparing. Might not have come off that way.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have to laugh at the typical TAM double standard here. This guy f$cked escorts for 5 years, exposed his wife to who knows what, and doesn't seem particularly remorseful about it. From his own mouth he got caught, it was just sex, he's outgrown that lifestyle so eh, no harm. And he's self righteous enough to convince himself her affair is worse, and of course the men of TAM are here to help with that. Nobody has asked him what HE did in terms of heavy lifting to demonstrate remorse. And of course he should expose, 180, file for divorce, the hell with her becauase he's really the poor victim here, because clearly he was so worried about his family while he was f$cking wh0res, which by the way he'd still be doing if he hadn't gotten caught.
> 
> Many of the same men that claimed it should be understood when Moment brought a sk$nk home in front of his children and f$cked her in the marital bed because he's hurting are now here to back this guy up. But because this is a betrayed woman things are different; she gets no consideration for being hurt.
> 
> ...


I wish I could "like" this more than once. 

He got caught 4 times. Has he posted how many times he actually cheated and didn't get caught?

ETA: This is not the first time the double standard has shown itself.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It is unfair and unhelpful to paint with a broad brush. I hate all infidelity as do many men on this board.

I have seen men posters hating on male cheating just as much as female.

As I posted earlier, I am so out of control furious with moment, for his "revenge" romp against ipoh, that I cannot even post about it. I would more than likely get banned for promoting violence.

I would suggest concerned parties should start a separate thread to address the "double standard".

Comparing and debating about it here is probably not helping OP or his wife and certainly not their kids.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> You helped destroy another woman's family? You screwed a married man with kids and came home to your kids acting like you weren't hurting them with your behavior?


No I didn't do that. I did it with random men though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> You and I will have to disagree. You believe there is a valid reason to become a cake eating wh0re and help destroy another woman's family so her crotch can have some strange.
> 
> I think there is no validation for her current actions.
> 
> I hate all infidelity.


Why are you so vile about her though? I could say he was being an disgusting pig with no conscience and morals
But I keep it to myself. He destroyed his family. Why do you think she has no validation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FromEurope (Jun 29, 2014)

.... Of all I only feel real bad and sorry for the OMW.
I also feel bad for who takes side's of one or the other (OP, WW)


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

mindsink

Your wife is deep in the fog with her affair.

But the damage that has been to the marriage is from both of you.

What is important is that now your children come first. If your wife agrees with that then I hope she acknowledges that the OM's kids come first as well.

And while living in the house in separate bedrooms with your wife as a live in domestic partner sounds "quaint" it will be a sham.

A sham that your children will eventually see through. Kids are intelligent. They pick up on the vibes between Mom & Dad no matter whether they are good or bad.

So start the detachment process.
A. The 180. To make you strong on your own.
B. The finances. Split them down the middle.
C. A true formal separation. (I would not waste my time if she is still banging the OM).
D. Both of you go to the attorneys to work out a fair divorce settlement.

The kids must come first. But when your wife said that; well she needs to consider the OM's kids as well.

Your wife's affair is doomed to become any long term relationship. I think in the back of her mind she might know that.

But guess what? Her love for you as the result of your affairs has most likely killed any feelings she has for you. Your reconciliation is a bust.

Accept it. Move on. And go be happy with your kids.

Painful lesson learned I hope.

HM


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

My h was an exit affair partner for the ow. She would sit for hours and talk w h about the pain that her h put her through by cheating on her... 

-sammy


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> I've been Asking these questions for a week, with zero response. And I'm a guy. Careful with the broad brush. I for one find OP actions and attitude abhorrent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My apologies, I overlooked you. It's easy to miss guys like you with so many phonies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> Whoa! Nobody is suggesting that what he did was right or that he is in the right. He went to prostitutes as he has said several times over 5 years and got caught 4 times. He has said that he destroyed her trust and love. She should have thrown him out then. Why didn't she ?
> 
> He has also said that he has been clean for 3 years and has no wish to cheat again. He hasn't even said bad things about the POSOM (we have and he should have). He said that OM has the traits that would make his wife happy - self esteem, career driven and thoughtful. His wife is calling this cheating [email protected] her soul mate. OP is trying to recover from this. As far as I am concerned and from what I can glean he is showing real remorse. He loves his wife and is hurting. I, for one, am not going to kick him while he is down (just as I do not condone what he did).
> 
> ...



Disagree. While I agree that she should have thrown him out and shouldn't be messing with another family, ww's get kicked when they're down all the time. Ioph, rrhouse, unamorperdido to name a few; they openly admit they were wrong, take all the responsibility, are hurting, and still get kicked. Men are constantly demanding to know what they have done to show remorse, build back hubby's ego, take his rage, and if they have ra's they're hurting. I could give a you know what that this guy is hurting; why has nobody demanded to know what he did to show remorse? Guess what? He doesn't have any; sure he's upset his wife found another guy but he honestly doesn't think his wh0res were that big of a deal, and he only stopped when he got caught. And because he's been "clean" for several years she should be over it; everything is about him. He has no concept of how he ripped her soul out and wrecked his family, it's now HER fault. Nice. He loves his wife? Really? So screwing escorts and exposing her to disease is love? Hardly.

Maybe if he spent the energy he used to find hookers pursuing his career he'd be more accomplished. But he likes the hunt! There's no hunt here, there's just a guy that had to pay trash to have sex with him. We know how high hookers' standards are.

Nope, this guy has been treated with kid gives. I know you guys don't approve of cheating with either gender but women cheaters get many times more vitriol. Just think about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Disagree. While I agree that she should have thrown him out and shouldn't be messing with another family, ww's get kicked when they're down all the time. Ioph, rrhouse, unamorperdido to name a few; they openly admit they were wrong, take all the responsibility, are hurting, and still get kicked. Men are constantly demanding to know what they have done to show remorse, build back hubby's ego, take his rage, and if they have ra's they're hurting. I could give a you know what that this guy is hurting; why has nobody demanded to know what he did to show remorse? Guess what? He doesn't have any; sure he's upset his wife found another guy but he honestly doesn't think his wh0res were that big of a deal, and he only stopped when he got caught. And because he's been "clean" for several years she should be over it; everything is about him. He has no concept of how he ripped her soul out and wrecked his family, it's now HER fault. Nice. He loves his wife? Really? So screwing escorts and exposing her to disease is love? Hardly.
> 
> Maybe if he spent the energy he used to find hookers pursuing his career he'd be more accomplished. But he likes the hunt! There's no hunt here, there's just a guy that had to pay trash to have sex with him. We know how high hookers' standards are.
> 
> ...


Amazing, soooo true!


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Pattiroxxi said:


> He destroyed his family. Why do you think she has no validation?


I didn't destroy my family, I destroyed my wife's trust. I never had any thoughts about leaving my wife or breaking apart my family. My wife has those very thoughts currently. That is a conscious decision that my wife is choosing to make at this time.

I just found out that she already had the kids meet the OM and other children, simply passing it off to them as "a friend from work". They even had dinner together. I remember her telling me about this event a while ago, and of course, never would have imagined that this was her lover and his children. It's as if she already has thoughts and plans about integrating the families. The other night, she said that our children will have more siblings (as a bright side). Is she really that delusional?

Even though I told her that I will let her go to him, that was simply me being selfless for once and allowing her to be happy. I see the look on her face when she talks about him, and I think of all the hurt that I caused her in the past, and I feel like I owe this to her. I'm in a constant state of conflicting thoughts.

After all that we've talked through in the past week and a half, we are still going to counseling tonight. I want to know if our trust can be rebuilt, and how. I want my wife to hear the words and advice of the counselor.

Just last night, I broke down and I told her that I want to fight to save this family and that I don't want a divorce. She said that even to this day, she hasn't completely made up her mind yet. There's always door A (me), B (him), and C (alone), and she is still evaluating everything.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

OP. Bottom line. Regardless of your intentions at the time, each of your infidelities had the potential to break apart your family. That they did not was no more than the result of whatever grace your wife chose to demonstrate upon her discovery of each of your transgressions. And yes, what she's doing now is deplorable. But don't seek to minimize your own past behavior by attempting to reduce everything down to some sort of "affair math".

Your current course of action would seem to be doing nothing but driving your WW further into OM's arms, so you might as well stand up for yourself and start being bold. Either way, you've gotten a lot of solid advice from different folks so far in this thread and have thus far chosen to ignore it. As long as OM is using his phallus to assist your WW in her "evaluations", you're fighting a losing battle.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Ask her to keep evaluating everything standing up, not flat on her back with him.

I do feel for you Mindsink.

Your wife thinks she is holding all the cards right now.

Maybe she is.....


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> Ask her to keep evaluating everything standing up, not flat on her back with him.
> 
> I do feel for you Mindsink.
> 
> ...


Oh she totally is. And, in addition to the full deck that she has at her disposal, she has every "Ace" that he essentially handed to her upon the discovery of each of his past infidelities.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Oh she totally is. And, in addition to the full deck that she has at her disposal, she has every "Ace" that he essentially handed to her upon the discovery of each of his past infidelities.


You took the words right out of my mouth Gus.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

*UPDATE AGAIN*

My wife texted me today saying she's very stressed and would like time away from everything, including the OM. She wants to fly out to California to meet an old male friend (not what you're thinking) who is currently divorced. He divorced his wife about a decade ago and moved out to California. (No kids, just a dog). She assured me that she is going by herself, not with the OM.

I am encouraged by this. She is taking time to reflect on the situation, which buys me time. This would also mean that she will not be seeing the OM this weekend for half a day (as she has for two weekends in a row).

However, my concern is that this old friend will ease her mind and possibly put thoughts in her head that life after divorce can be good. He could potentially reinforce the validity of her affair and decision to divorce.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Btw, I am considering all my options and taking all of your advises very seriously. Please don't think I'm trying to disrespect anyone here because I haven't executed any action, particularly "blowing up" the whole affair.

I have pulled a 180 at home. I am far more considerate of her and her needs. I help her in every aspect of her life. I want to show her that I can be her life partner, and that it's my life's mission to help her in any way that I can. She is doing far less now around the house, which is helping to relieve some of the stress that she is also going through. This is not an easy time for her either.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

mindsink said:


> *UPDATE AGAIN*
> 
> My wife texted me today saying she's very stressed and would like time away from everything, including the OM. She wants to fly out to California to meet an old male friend (not what you're thinking) who is currently divorced. He divorced his wife about a decade ago and moved out to California. (No kids, just a dog). She assured me that she is going by herself, not with the OM.
> 
> ...


:banghead::banghead::slap:
Please file already.
Sigh...


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> *UPDATE AGAIN*
> 
> My wife texted me today saying she's very stressed and would like time away from everything, including the OM. She wants to fly out to California to meet an old male friend (*not what you're thinking*)


Unless he is now gay, I wouldn't bet on it.

Taking a trip to see a male "friend" ?? Uh huh


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> *UPDATE AGAIN*
> 
> My wife texted me today saying she's very stressed and would like time away from everything, including the OM. She wants to fly out to California to meet an old male friend (not what you're thinking) who is currently divorced. He divorced his wife about a decade ago and moved out to California. (No kids, just a dog). She assured me that she is going by herself, not with the OM.
> 
> ...


I don't see how this is at all encouraging to you. For all you know, she's going to visit a past OM who might actually be the father of at least one of "your" children. Hell, he might be the "option C" that she's been talking about.

Does that piss you off? Good. Let it. Now do something.

And hey, since I've put it out there... how certain are you that your children are actually your children?



mindsink said:


> Btw, I am considering all my options and taking all of your advises very seriously. Please don't think I'm trying to disrespect anyone here because I haven't executed any action, particularly "blowing up" the whole affair.
> 
> I have pulled a 180 at home. I am far more considerate of her and her needs. I help her in every aspect of her life. I want to show her that I can be her life partner, and that it's my life's mission to help her in any way that I can. She is doing far less now around the house, which is helping to relieve some of the stress that she is also going through. This is not an easy time for her either.


Uhhh... This isn't the 180. Not at all.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> I don't see how this is at all encouraging to you. For all you know, she's going to visit a past OM who might actually be the father of at least one of "your" children. Hell, he might be the "option C" that she's been talking about.
> 
> Does that piss you off? Good. Let it. Now do something.
> 
> And hey, since I've put it out there... how certain are you that your children are actually your children?


No, it doesn't piss me off. It's comical, actually. I've heard your advice, and while I respect it, I disagree with it and it will totally end this, which is not what I want. So unless you have anything constructive to add, I suggest you bow out of this thread. Trying to "piss me off" to side with your opinion won't make me change my mind.




GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... This isn't the 180. Not at all.


Isn't one of the principles of the 180 to do complete the opposite of what you were doing previously (e.g. being a lazy, self-serving slob, who is inconsiderate about his wife's busy work schedule and never helps around the house)?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> No, it doesn't piss me off. It's comical, actually. I've heard your advice, and while I respect it, I disagree with it and it will totally end this, which is not what I want. So unless you have anything constructive to add, I suggest you bow out of this thread.


He has added constructive advice, you just don't want to hear it. He isn't wanting you to get pissed off for the sake of being pissed. He is trying to get you to OPEN YOUR EYES.

If you already have a predetermined path on what you want to do and what you think is true, and don't want to listen, then good luck with that. By all means, have the mindset that your wife is innocently going to visit some divorced male friend.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> And hey, since I've put it out there... how certain are you that your children are actually yours?


He's certain because he was regularly bedding his wife at the time his kids were conceived. At the same time he was sleeping with prostitutes but hey who's perfect?

Give it up guys. He doesn't answer any questions, doesn't follow any advice. He's got all the answers.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

From everything you have said here are my observations:


Your wife is gone. I do not believe that she is coming back to you, just recouping her strength, energy and willpower to do what you know she is going to do.

You cheated, she discovered she forgave. Repeat this again and again. Each time, her justification to look elsewhere was being built up (think of it as deposits in a bank). So while she was "forgiving" you, she really wasn't - she was putting up with you until the right time came along. Understandable.

The OM gave her an opportunity to sample what is outside her current "marriage" and she took it. Someone she was attracted to in a position of power. That she took this opportunity with someone who was married with children is despicable. As despicable as he was for using his position to prey on a vulnerable woman.

I agree with her that the OM is one of the options but I do not believe that she considers coming back to you to be an option. She just considers him to also be a non-option because of his wife and children. That is, she doesn't see him as a [email protected] but rather his wife as a threat that she is not prepared to deal with. Hence she is prepared to "merge" the families but not at the expense of her eyes being scratched out.

Now, whatever you did wrong, and whatever the good folk on this forum are saying about it, I agree that she is doing wrong now and you need to take action. You did not want to break up your family when you cheated, but she clearly does. So its not a question of whose cheating is worse but what the consequences are and what is done about it. Your cheating indirectly broke up the family (as this is happening now as a result) but hers is to deliberately move away from you.

What you do from now will determine how you and your children come out of this. You do not want them merged with a [email protected]'s family, that is for sure. You do want good co-parenting to take place. And you do want to come out of this a better man, personally.

The advice to expose like mad and also file for D immediately is to help you defend against the POSOM and to offer your kids the best possible future going forward. This isn't some old boys club banding together like some of the women on this board are trying hard to suggest but rather the best possible advice that can be given in this situation.

I agree that nobody is trying to piss you off, but rather shock you into action and some of us have more stark ways of doing this.

Take action asap and do not dither about for your own good and that of your kids. Expose and file for D while doing a proper 180 (not what you are doing which is grovelling because of your previous infidelity while putting up with hers).

Good luck!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

mindsink said:


> I didn't destroy my family, I destroyed my wife's trust. I never had any thoughts about leaving my wife or breaking apart my family. My wife has those very thoughts currently. That is a conscious decision that my wife is choosing to make at this time.


This is the same thing a WW thinks when they start the affair. "Oh, I won't leave him or break up my family. He'll never find out, and it's just this one time, I can stop at any time".



mindsink said:


> I just found out that she already had the kids meet the OM and other children, simply passing it off to them as "a friend from work". They even had dinner together. I remember her telling me about this event a while ago, and of course, never would have imagined that this was her lover and his children. It's as if she already has thoughts and plans about integrating the families. The other night, she said that our children will have more siblings (as a bright side). Is she really that delusional?


Your savings grace is that in a situation where you leave one for another it usually doesn't work. However if two were in abusive situations and left for each other, it probably could be the 5% that makes it through.



mindsink said:


> Even though I told her that I will let her go to him, that was simply me being selfless for once and allowing her to be happy. I see the look on her face when she talks about him, and I think of all the hurt that I caused her in the past, and I feel like I owe this to her. I'm in a constant state of conflicting thoughts.


All we can ever do is let them go where they want, and then make our response which is satisfactory towards that consequence.



mindsink said:


> After all that we've talked through in the past week and a half, we are still going to counseling tonight. I want to know if our trust can be rebuilt, and how. I want my wife to hear the words and advice of the counselor.


Counselor won't work unless she wants to work with the process. I guess hearing it can't hurt. It's unlikely in that you hurt her with your affair(s), and she found "happiness" with another.

She's not going to give up what she has right now, which is happiness and good feelings with the one, with the uncertainty and pain of dealing with you. The pain will last for a while.

But like I said, you can let her know the tidbit that 95% of relationships formed by affairs usually fail and fail badly.



mindsink said:


> Just last night, I broke down and I told her that I want to fight to save this family and that I don't want a divorce. She said that even to this day, she hasn't completely made up her mind yet. There's always door A (me), B (him), and C (alone), and she is still evaluating everything.


This is not going to help you. I guess it does help for her to see you have emotions behind it vs a stone wall. But I think it's ironic at this point, and she might not be able to have empathy for you. She might even think your being over dramatic. I know you really realize you screwed up, and that it's gonna hurt and hurt bad.

If you wanted her back, especially having cheated I think the best thing you can do is let her go to him and get on with your life. Be a good dad on your visitations, and take care of your life. Perhaps several years from now she will put you in a high regard and want to try it again with you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> No, it doesn't piss me off. It's comical, actually. I've heard your advice, and while I respect it, I disagree with it and it will totally end this, which is not what I want. So unless you have anything constructive to add, I suggest you bow out of this thread. Trying to "piss me off" to side with your opinion won't make me change my mind.





vellocet said:


> He has added constructive advice, you just don't want to hear it. He isn't wanting you to get pissed off for the sake of being pissed. He is trying to get you to OPEN YOUR EYES.


Exactly ^this. Look... OP, I'm trying to help you here. I really am. And if that means getting you fired up (and honestly I think you need that) -- or even pissed at me -- I'm happy to do it. If, however, all that I manage to get out of you is a chuckle and a snort, then that's fine too.

I want this to work out for you. I really do. Over the course of the past several years, I've watched infidelity tear apart my parents' marriage (they divorced), my brother's marriage (which is currently on life support), and very nearly my own marriage as well; thus far mine has managed to survive -- and flourish! -- due to no small amount of honesty, maturity, and resolve on the part of both myself and my wife.

I'm a sucker for a happy ending. Pun not intended... though hilarious nonetheless. :smthumbup:

Having said that, if you'd like for me to bow out of your thread, I'm happy to do that. Just say the word. I do believe, however, that you'll find that I typically offer one of the more reasonable and measured voices on this site.



mindsink said:


> Isn't one of the principles of the 180 to do complete the opposite of what you were doing previously (e.g. being a lazy, self-serving slob, who is inconsiderate about his wife's busy work schedule and never helps around the house)?


The point of the 180 is to help you to prepare for the inevitable collapse of your marriage by helping you to detach from your wife. Period. Recognizing that you need to work on yourself, however, is a part of the 180. But you do it for yourself and your kids... not for a wife that may very well leave you for another man.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Nothing To See Here - Naked Gun - YouTube


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

vellocet said:


> He has added constructive advice, you just don't want to hear it. He isn't wanting you to get pissed off for the sake of being pissed. He is trying to get you to OPEN YOUR EYES.
> 
> If you already have a predetermined path on what you want to do and what you think is true, and don't want to listen, then good luck with that. By all means, have the mindset that your wife is innocently going to visit some divorced male friend.


I hear it, I just disagree with it. Is disagreement not allowed in this forum? :scratchhead:


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> I hear it, I just disagree with it. Is disagreement not allowed in this forum? :scratchhead:


Disagreement is fine. But when someone is trying to help you and you tell them to bow out and infer that they have nothing constructive to say when its has been, it tends to rub people the wrong way.

He's trying to get you to wake up. We all are. And this is a forum where we don't take kindly to cheaters, that which you have been. Yet we still are trying to get you to see the light. We can all bow out if you'd prefer.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

vellocet said:


> Disagreement is fine. But when someone is trying to help you and you tell them to bow out and infer that they have nothing constructive to say when its has been, it tends to rub people the wrong way.
> 
> He's trying to get you to wake up. We all are. And this is a forum where we don't take kindly to cheaters, that which you have been. Yet we still are trying to get you to see the light. We can all bow out if you'd prefer.


Although I've stayed far away from this one......

Amen.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

mindsink, your guilt about own affairs is destroying any chance of fixing the situation.



> I have pulled a 180 at home. I am far more considerate of her and her needs. I help her in every aspect of her life. I want to show her that I can be her life partner, and that it's my life's mission to help her in any way that I can. She is doing far less now around the house, which is helping to relieve some of the stress that she is also going through. This is not an easy time for her either.


Every BS who did this regretted it. Every BS mentions the begging part as the most humiliating and regretful thing thing they did while trying to R whether they ended up in divorce or reconciliation. 

The problem here is not you, but her entitled and selfish behavior. Your wife is just another entitled, selfish cheater who happened to be cheated before. That does not excuse her current behavior of getting involved with someone else's marriage and destroying another woman's life. Imagine your wife doing the same things that you are once you got cheating on her ? Wouldn't that just feed your entitled behavior ?


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

First, apologies to Gus. I know you're trying to help and I appreciate it. I'm just really angry and frustrated at this whole situation. I really do want to march into the company and meet with their HR director and spill the beans. But I'm so, so, so scared to do so. It almost feels like that would be my last resort.

*A little bit of an update:*

We are going to the 2nd of our counseling sessions tonight. I spoke with my wife to agree on expectations and gameplan for tonight's session.

I basically had two points. 

First, talk to the counselor to update her on where our state of minds are at this time.

Second, determine if there is anything redeemable in this marriage that is even worth saving, and understand what those steps may be to move forward. Primary question -- can her trust be rebuilt and how?

She agreed on both points. I feel that this was way better than where her head was at the beginning of all of this. Her mind was already made up at that point, and said that she wants no part of reconciliation.

Now, it appears that she's open to the idea, even if she hasn't actually agreed to do so (yet).

Stay tuned.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

No worries, OP. We're good.

Also, don't forget that she needs to rebuild your trust as well. Neither of you needs to be getting off the hook for anything.

And, if she's at all interested on working on your marriage, she has to be willing to cut off all non-work-related contact w/ the OM, if not getting another job altogether. And, seeing as how she's wanting to go away for a while, she should have already come to this conclusion on her own.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

One thing I've observed is that BS that go with a clear mindset get the best outcomes in these situations. 

BS whose actions are contrived and angled for a particular outcome, BS who are plagued by doubts and fear get the worst of both worlds. The lack of belief and conviction in their actions becomes their downfall.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

So last night, my wife said to the counselor that she is in no different state of mind when it comes to me than she was a couple weeks ago. In other words, she has no interest in reconciliation.

I'm really tempted to expose this thing at her work. However, my biggest fear is losing her friendship. If the relationship as husband/wife dies, we want our relationship to continue as friends and as mother/father to our children. If I wreck her career, that could seriously put that in jeopardy.

At this point, I'm almost done trying to fight this. Sad.


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

mindsink said:


> So last night, my wife said to the counselor that she is in no different state of mind when it comes to me than she was a couple weeks ago. In other words, she has no interest in reconciliation.
> 
> I'm really tempted to expose this thing at her work. However, my biggest fear is losing her friendship. If the relationship as husband/wife dies, we want our relationship to continue as friends and as mother/father to our children. If I wreck her career, that could seriously put that in jeopardy.
> 
> At this point, I'm almost done trying to fight this. Sad.


Expose and she will be fired so you will pay alimony if divorce. But this can takeaway OM...anyhow if she is back you wont want her to keep this job and boss . For R NC is a must. 
Do 180, fill divorce, if that doesnt bring her back you are done
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Suspecting2014 (Jun 11, 2014)

mindsink said:


> So last night, my wife said to the counselor that she is in no different state of mind when it comes to me than she was a couple weeks ago. In other words, she has no interest in reconciliation.
> 
> I'm really tempted to expose this thing at her work. However, my biggest fear is losing her friendship. If the relationship as husband/wife dies, we want our relationship to continue as friends and as mother/father to our children. If I wreck her career, that could seriously put that in jeopardy.
> 
> At this point, I'm almost done trying to fight this. Sad.


Stop being afraid of piss her off, At this point you must have realized that being Mr Nice Guy and eating tons of **** have done nothing.
If she is a good mother and you a carring father you will be ok.

If you have done all the same what makes you think she is gona change? If you keep supporting her afair why is she gonna change? 

Just wake up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

I wouldn't be surprised if she stopped her friendship with you. She doesn't want to be with you. She was stupid for not leaving you after she first caught you with prostitutes, but i guess she waited for an opporutnity as people say to come into her life that she could take charge of. 

Do what you think is right OP.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindsink

Nice guys finish last. And you are in last position right now.

Why on earth do you want to be friends with a fellow cheater.

Your wife had a choice. She could have divorced you. Instead she gave you a fake reconciliation.

You got the booby prize my friend.

Either report her, kill the affair and expect nothing else from her.

or

Continue to be the nice guy, accept a false friendship and coparent while she continues to make crappy decisions while you and the kids watch.

You do have a choice.

One question.

Why have you not tried to team up with the OMW to kill the affair or at least know what her intentions are???

HM


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Can't you let her go knowing that you destroyed your marriage all by yourself? 

she may have been a coward he didn't know how to end it without having some where else to go but you did all of the damage all by yourself to lead her to that point.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

M, you may not want to hear this, but there actually comes a time when a woman feeling die for the man she married.

All the drama from your pass seems to have killed all romantic feeling she had for you.
Yes she's wrong for the affair, but wifely feeling for you are not coming back my friend.


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## FromEurope (Jun 29, 2014)

do yourself a favor. File for D. and move on. Start your new life learning from this experience.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> So last night, my wife said to the counselor that she is in no different state of mind when it comes to me than she was a couple weeks ago. In other words, she has no interest in reconciliation.
> 
> I'm really tempted to expose this thing at her work. However, my biggest fear is losing her friendship. If the relationship as husband/wife dies, we want our relationship to continue as friends and as mother/father to our children. If I wreck her career, that could seriously put that in jeopardy.
> 
> At this point, I'm almost done trying to fight this. Sad.


It's really starting to sound like she's been doing nothing but playing you this entire time... playing off your desire to keep your marriage and family intact, whittling down your resolve, etc. 

Right now she feels sort of invulnerable, knowing that she's able to do pretty much whatever she wants, running roughshod over you, and all the while plotting her escape from your marriage to be w/ OM. And not only does she get to keep her job, but she gets to have OM bang out her birth canal on the clock as well. She's in fantasy land, and it's time for you to smash that fantasy to bits and hand her a personal invitation to Rockbottomville.

Be bold. Show some backbone. Stand up for yourself. At this point you've got pretty much nothing else to lose and, again, I really do think that this is what she's dying to see from you. Not a more widespread exposure, per se, but for you to "stand up and be counted". Again, her comments to you about you being a better person would seem to speak to this.

Break her will. Show her -- and OM! -- that you're willing to fight for your family. You've said that you're tired of fighting this... well, don't give up, just start fighting in a different way.

In other words, I think that it's time for you to seriously consider exposing the affair to the HR department -- as well as her boss's boss, her boss's boss's boss, etc -- at her workplace.

What about your families and/or mutual friends... are any of them aware of the affair and/or your own past infidelities?



happyman64 said:


> Mindsink
> 
> Nice guys finish last. And you are in last position right now.
> 
> ...


I'm inclined to agree w/ all of ^this.

And wow... talk about "double-standards"... some of the ladies in this thread are certainly laying it on pretty thick.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Gus is right on. Expose. Be calm and dignified.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

The marriage is dead. 

You killed it a long time ago when you cheated with multiple prostitutes. In her head, she likely didn't quite know if she was done with you yet. But her heart was already gone.

Now she's found a new home for her heart, so you are no longer necessary. She needed to keep you around until she had a new lily pad to jump to. 

It's really that simple.

For your own dignity, you should make this decision for her. Just let her go. And set yourself free in the process. Quit the friendship/pseudo family thing. It's going to fvck you up and your kids too.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Mindsink
> 
> Nice guys finish last. And you are in last position right now.
> 
> ...


Expose them already.
She will get another job and will actually respect you for having done so.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Omg! She will not respect him! That was murdered long ago.


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## MrsStudMuffin (May 11, 2014)

Stop being a wimp. If you want your family together, fight for your wife. Show her you love her and rebuild what you destroyed--her self worth-when you favored *****s instead of her. 

Visit the OM and tell him he'll face the wrath of God if he doesn't quit her. Women want men who fight for them. Not wimps who seek the company of *****s because paying for it makes them feel in control, and who roll over and present their bellies when challenged. Read what sailbadthesinner did when he just thought another man was after his wife. Damn...thats a man.


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## MrsStudMuffin (May 11, 2014)

"Report to HR" is too much like a schoolyard tattletail--a girly-man. Take care of business if you want her back. Walk away if you don't. Perhaps you can get spousal support from her since she's better in her career, as you said. You can use the extra money to pay for women because that's likely the only way you'll get one.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

MrsStudMuffin said:


> *"Report to HR" is too much like a schoolyard tattletail--a girly-man. Take care of business if you want her back. Walk away if you don't.* Perhaps you can get spousal support from her since she's better in her career, as you said. You can use the extra money to pay for women because that's likely the only way you'll get one.


Reporting to HR *is* taking care of business, not being a girly-man. If the goal is to break up the affair then all contact must cease, and that's kinda hard to do if they work together on a daily basis. Exposure to HR (along with VPs, and immediate supervisors) is standard operating procedure in the event of a workplace affair.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Omg! She will not respect him! That was murdered long ago.


His only shot is to blow this up.
And subconsciously she will respect him.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I can see his destroying his marriage earlier is not enough for you guys to understand that any further damage to her life will NOT get her back.

Wake up.

This is not the same as a ONS with a colleague. He bought and paid for women. She had no HR to go to. He was caught four times. But how many prostitutes were there?

He absolutely killed her sense of self, her sense of trust and security and her love for him.

It is NEVER coming back.

Destroy her career, too why not? It only matters that he isn't made a fool of, right?

Take everything from this woman. Break up the A and to hell with her.

To hell with her was his attitude for far too long.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> So last night, my wife said to the counselor that she is in no different state of mind when it comes to me than she was a couple weeks ago. In other words, she has no interest in reconciliation.
> 
> I'm really tempted to expose this thing at her work. However, my biggest fear is losing her friendship. If the relationship as husband/wife dies, we want our relationship to continue as friends and as mother/father to our children. If I wreck her career, that could seriously put that in jeopardy.


Seeing as how you didn't get such severe consequences for your actions, such as your career being destroyed, then just divorce and move on.

You cheated, she caught you, you had to eat humble pie and she cheated back.

So if you didn't get such a nasty consequence for your cheating, why should she?

Just end it and move on.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> I can see his destroying his marriage earlier is not enough for you guys to understand that any further damage to her life will NOT get her back.
> 
> Wake up.
> 
> ...



You're wasting your breath here. There is no greater evil then a ww, regardless of what her hb has done. This guy still insists it's not him that broke up the family! Rich. Just rich. And on top that, these guys really really believe she wants her cheating #@$#& hb to ruin her life! Just wow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Are you kidding me? REALLY?!?!?!

EXPOSE THIS AFFAIR TO THE WORKPLACE ALREADY!!!! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?!?!?!

Are you afraid that she'll get mad and sleep with another man? Oh...she already did that!

Are you afraid that she'll tell you that she loves the OM and values him more than you? Oh wait...she did that too.

Are you afraid that she'll tell you that she wants a divorce? Opps! She told you that too, huh...

Are you afraid that she'll tell you that she wants to sell the house and divide up the martial assets? Oh....she that one as well?

Are you afraid that she'll tell you that she doesn't want to reconcile the marriage? Well, how about that! She said that one too!!

Are you afraid that she'll introduce the OM to your kids? Oh yeah, she did that too!

Expose to her work, what worse thing could she possibly do to you? You lose her friendship? Well, with friends like that, who needs enemies!!

Do not tell her you're going to expose, just do it! If you give her fair warning, you just gave her and OM enough time to come up with a viable story. Blindside them. See, affairs are like ****roaches. They love the dark, but as soon as a light goes on, they scatter. You want to kill this affair? You bring it out into the light.

And do you know what will probably happen? They're probably going to fire the OM. Because he's her direct supervisor and he should have known better. The OM is going to throw your wife under the bus to save his own ass. And he'll go running back to his wife. Because, if he gets fired, he'll have a hard time finding a job in the same kind of job making the same kind of money. Because people are going to inquire why he was let go from his last job and they're not going to be so quick to hire a guy that f*cks the married help. 

See, he's okay to get a divorce and get with your wife. He probably makes enough to maintain his wife's household and enough left over combined with the money your wife makes and the child support you give for them to have a great life. If he gets demoted, Life is going to be hard for him and he's going to stay with his wife because it's cheaper to keep her. He may end up resenting your wife for his current situation. Put the blame on her because he's too much of a ********* to carry any blame himself!

Now, if you expose, is your wife going to get pissed? HELL YEAH! Is she going to say, " I thought about working things out with you, but not after this stunt!"? YEP! SHE WILL! Will she lash out at you and call you every vile name she can think of? YEP! THAT TOO!! And you stand a chance that she will follow through with divorce. But to be honest with you, she's already thinking this anyway. SO, if you truly think about it. You really have nothing to lose. You just made option B a non-option.

Talk to a lawyer and see if you have grounds to sue the workplace because of this affair.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Seeing as how you didn't get such severe consequences for your actions, such as your career being destroyed, then just divorce and move on.
> 
> You cheated, she caught you, you had to eat humble pie and she cheated back.
> 
> ...



Thank you. It's good to know there are a few men here that aren't double standard misogynists.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Mindsink,

You are delusional if you think the two of you are ever going to be friends if she goes off with the OM. Yes you will be co-parents and I can guarantee a certain amount of antagonism at the start.

So whats best for you at this stage 
Accept that she is gone and is not coming back in a hurry. Why would she ? Stop hoping as it makes you appear weak.
Expose this affair so that it is stopped for decency sake - for the OMW, for your kids and for the wellbeing of your forthcoming divorce.
Get an attorney and protect your access to children and other assets.
File for D as soon as possible. Quote adultery as the reason even if it doesnt make a difference in your state.
Start working on yourself in terms of learning to cope and getting better. Make sure that you spend quality time with your kids and become a better man. Take up hobbies/sports and work out physically.
Do not engage with your WW (stbxw) or the POSOM. Karma buses do arrive every now and then.

My tuppence worth of advice.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

With friend like these who needs enemies


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

crossbar said:


> Are you kidding me? REALLY?!?!?!
> 
> EXPOSE THIS AFFAIR TO THE WORKPLACE ALREADY!!!! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?!?!?!



Problem is, he cheated too and other than cheat back, she didn't do anything to destroy his life like he wants to do to her.

That and if he is somehow able to destroy her career, he isn't helping his children financially in that regard. 

I'm all for exposing and wanting to destroy a cheater.....unless I cheated first and didn't get the same consequences.

Bottom line, he cheated first, got caught multiple times, yet she didn't seek to destroy his life somehow.



> And do you know what will probably happen? They're probably going to fire the OM. Because he's her direct supervisor and he should have known better.


This will likely happen and since she is a subordinate she would not get fired. So with that I will digress a bit to say that exposure SHOULDN'T destroy her career other than putting her in a nasty light with her colleagues. 

But let me ask you this, since he cheated multiple times first and didn't get handed any life destroying consequence by her, IF he exposes her, what would be a fitting consequence she could then hand down to him? 





> Talk to a lawyer and see if you have grounds to sue the workplace because of this affair.


He doesn't. However since she is a subordinate, she could.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Thank you. It's good to know there are a few men here that aren't double standard misogynists.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well it stands to reason. He cheated multiple times. She even stayed with him after the first few times catching him. She cheats on him(yes, makes her a POS too), rather than trying to destroy him in some way.

Now he wants to F****G DESTROY HER CAREER!!!!

.................but wants to remain friends :scratchhead:


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

There's a difference between wanting to destroy her career and wanting to disrupt/destroy the affair. He is fighting for his family. 

And it is not a question of what punishment he should have got when she caught him - she could have handed out punishment and left him. But she didn't ! She took him back to "maintain" a normal life till she could do an equally skanky thing. And in my opinion, hers is worse because she hurt two families and sets of kids, not just one - since we are comparing notes!

Mindsink, see my post - you came here for advice and you are getting it. You need to forget about being friends and get on with filing. You cannot discuss much with her until POSOM is out of the picture and she, like you had to do, shows remorse. You showed remorse because you wanted your family despite the despicable thing you did again and again. She needs to want her family to have any hope of R else move on.

Oh and definitely expose and blow up POSOM's world - don't worry about her career, she will be fine. In fact, she could be compensated legally since he was her boss.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

he has zero chance of recovering his family. 

I think of a lot of people here who are delusional. 

it's really important to look at the prejudices under which you are operating people. 

stop thinking of this woman has some guys wayward wife and start thinking about her as a human being perhaps even your daughter.

and if you can do that and tell me that you think that this guy has the right to destroy his wife's career just to break up her affair after what he's done I have to say I think you're a liar. I think the if any of you guys were this woman's father you'd be after this guy with a baseball bat if he went anywhere near her again.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Agreed OP does not have a strong moral position. His wife is not a low down cheater; he is a serial offender. His wife's affair is nothing. 

Still, if OP is to have any chance of saving his marriage, exposing is the right desperate move. After that he needs to apply the same TAM techniques to combat the affair and attempt reconciliation.

Now, though, it is manipulation. The only moral validation is the desire for a sixth chance. OP can never accuse his wife of being and adulterer without admitting that he is far worse.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> he has zero chance of recovering his family.
> 
> I think of a lot of people here who are delusional.
> 
> ...


If she were my daughter (and I, as a father of 3 young ladies, have been in a similar situation except they were younger and not married), I would have advised her to leave him the first or second time and if necessary, would have gone after him with a baseball bat then. If she had an affair knowing she was breaking up a family, I'd question her parentage and do a DNA test!

Everyone here can continue bashing the OP and ignoring what his wife is doing now, but all you are doing is going against a few tenets that the TAM community generally believes in:


She is justified in cheating.
A revenge affair is OK.
A man shouldn't fight for his family because he did wrong in the past and repented.
It is OK to break up another family because your husband hurt you in the past.
It is OK to lie and cheat.
Two wrongs do make a right.
Showing disrespect to your husband and children while living with them is OK.
And going into a fake R while you bide your time is totally acceptable.

And yet every female on this board is just waiting to play the misogynist, double standard card and even some of the males are justifying what she is doing - currently - now!

Again, Mindsink, if you are truly sorry for what you did, you have to destroy this affair and be prepared to walk away. If she comes back to you (which I believe is highly unlikely), make sure that the the two of you thrash all your issues out together and honestly, before you attempt a life going forward. Else just become a better man and father.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Agreed OP does not have a strong moral position. His wife is not a low down cheater; he is a serial offender. His wife's affair is nothing.
> 
> Still, if OP is to have any chance of saving his marriage, exposing is the right desperate move. After that he needs to apply the same TAM techniques to combat the affair and attempt reconciliation.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Somewhere, OP is sitting behind a computer, laughing at everyone on this thread arguing over these morally repugnant characters he created. I'm sure he will have an UPDATE soon that will have nothing to do about anything. In the meantime, carry on folks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

If that is the case then nothing like a trolled up story to flush out the misogynists on a forum eh?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> If that is the case then nothing like a trolled up story to flush out the misogynists on a forum eh?


Ha ha, my thought as well. But it doesn't matter; a well known columnist I like to read was asked if she thought many of her letters were fake. She replied that she was sure some of them were, but if it was a scenario she could see happening then it still had value. I think this could well be a fake but it still has value.

I appreciate your post regarding your daughters, it is more balanced. I myself have young men, 13 and 11, so I have a woman's view point but also think about my sons and their future, and what they will have to deal with. But you are mistaken about the women here; we do not think what she is doing is right if for no other reason then she is messing with someone else's family. We simply want to see the same vitriol leveled at him, as would no doubt be the case if genders were reversed. If this was a women admitting she'd slept with various men for 5 years but it was just sex and she was over it, and now hubby was having an affair, she be constantly reminded that she started this and he was probably hurting. And just imagine if he wanted to leave and she claimed it wasn't her that wrecked the family because she didn't want a divorce; you guys would go crazy. Someone here even called her a slimy wh0re, but no men have called him a filty, worthless piece o sheet.

And we don't think the consequences to her should be more than he got; he didn't get his career wrecked to why should she? He can certainly demand she quit and if she refuses he can leave her; that is fighting for his family. Admitting what he did wrecked the family, doing what it takes to make amends, and demanding boundaries that they both must stick to is certainly reasonable. 

Nobody has asked who his affairs were exposed to and nobody has asked what he's done as far as heavy lifting, which if you read his posts is nothing. It was just sex and he's over it so yay for him. Once again, a woman posting this would be grilled over and over again regarding what she'd done to demonstrate remorse for her affairs. Yes, I agree this has really exposed a lot of misogynism here and even if its a fake it has had value.

But on the other hand, there have been a few guys here that have shown a fairly even response so perhaps there is still hope. The only one in this whole scenario who really deserves a lot of sympathy is om's wife (as far as we know anyway) but this guy's wife is next in line for what he put her through.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> If that is the case then nothing like a trolled up story to flush out the misogynists on a forum eh?


Don't forget about the misandrists.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Don't forget about the misandrists.


There's no misandrists here.....we love you guys! Well, most of you


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Curious as to what happened after wife discovered the call-girls. What were the repercussions of all that? Did you separate? What was discussed at that time for the groundwork to reconcile?
> 
> Yes, wife should not have had her own affair, revenge or otherwise. But if all that was rug swept three years ago it is still a big contributing factor to the mess now.
> 
> There is no moral high-ground here. Only mud and sludge that unfortunately a 3 and a 6 year old are neck deep in.


Again. Asked. Never answered. 

Never answers anything it appears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Sorry, a guy paying family money for sex with many hookers with a pregnant wife at home. Did you have sex with your pregnant wife? While you were seeing escorts? Timeline seems to indicate that.
> 
> It exposes your wife to STDs. It exposes your unborn child to STDs. Or worse.
> 
> ...


More unanswered questions.

Because there are no answers.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> Everyone here can continue bashing the OP and ignoring what his wife is doing now


Nobody is ignoring what she is doing now. Most of us question why he wants much more severe consequences for her when she didn't seek to destroy him in the same manner or equivalent.

Remember, she caught him more than a few times, stayed with him, and he kept doing it. She didn't seek to get him fired, destroyed, or anything of the sort.

Besides her cheating back on him, she didn't go all ballistic on him with guns blazing. So why does he get to?

That and the absurd notion that he should be able to destroy her, but continue to be friends and civil. Really??

They are both in the same boat infidelity-wise, why does he think she should be destroyed when he wasn't?




> but all you are doing is going against a few tenets that the TAM community generally believes in:
> 
> 
> She is justified in cheating.





Absolutely not. She should have left him before cheating.

She is not justified and is just a big a POS. We are talking about his need to hand her more severe consequences than he received, or didn't receive to be more accurate.



> [*]A revenge affair is OK.


Nope. A person engaging in a RA loses the right to complain about the original offender.




> [*]A man shouldn't fight for his family because he did wrong in the past and repented.


Fighting for his family by wanting to destroy her? If he wanted to fight for his family, he should have kept it in his pants to begin with. And if she cared about her family, she would have either divorced him, or not have engaged in a RA.




> [*]It is OK to break up another family because your husband hurt you in the past.


Nobody is saying its ok. Please show us where we are.

But this IS one aspect where I think her actions are maybe just a little more deplorable since she has no qualms about sleeping with a married man.




> [*]It is OK to lie and cheat.
> [*]Two wrongs do make a right.


Please show us the post and words of the person that said these things.



> [*]Showing disrespect to your husband and children while living with them is OK.


Agreed that it is disrespect, but please show us who said this is OK.

And he did the same and didn't stop for a long time after getting caught multiple times. This complaint is on them both. 




> And yet every female on this board is just waiting to play the misogynist, double standard card and even some of the males are justifying what she is doing - currently - now!


Yo, if you know me, I stand up to the women who think this way. But I am seeing none of that in this thread.



> Again, Mindsink, if you are truly sorry for what you did, you have to destroy this affair and be prepared to walk away.


Destroy the affair, absolutely. Destroy her career or destroy her life in some way, nope, sorry. If that's the case then she should be able to retain the right to give him the same type of consequences she never gave him. Again, he wants to dole out more severe punishment to her than he ever got, which was pretty much nothing with the exception of her turning around and cheating.

I could have gotten my x-wife fired. But what good would that have done? She still would have custody, and even with me paying CS, my kids would suffer financially. As much as I despise my x-wife, doing that to her would have hurt my kids.

So if he wants to be a good father, sure, expose the affair. That's fair. But if he wants to destroy her life/career in some other vindictive way, then perhaps he can suggest something she can do to him so he isn't a hypocrite.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I think we have been played


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink, lets put this all in perspective.

Before you decide whether or not to destroy your wife, please answer these questions and then we can proceed to discuss the validity of what you want to do.

What consequences did your wife bring down on you after catching you cheating multiple times?

Did she try to destroy your career or life in some way? (other than cheating which you had done to her as well)


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Not to take sides, but we only know what he is telling us. He is not answering questions, really, so we don't know what consequences he was faced with and to what extent his wife went to regarding his cheating. We don't know whom she told and what she said, and how it effected his work/ career (we don't even know if it was involved with his career in amy way, like hers is by being a workplace affair).

We only know what he is wanting to do now. The questions have been asked several times but those inquiries have gone unanswered and are overlooked and only the hatred for her current actions are seen.

It seems that many here are looking at the current situation only, as the R supposedly happened and he was forgiven for is deplorable actions. I don't think this should be looked at in a closed environment, but the whole thing looked at as past and present actions.

The one that that has upset me time and again in this thread is the statement that "he destroyed the marriage and family!" I am not saying I disagree with this, but where are the same posters and statements "that each spouse is 50% responsible for the failure of the marriage" and "the WS is 100% responsible for their choices" that exists in most other threads?? I see lots of justification for her actions spouted here just because she was betrayed earlier. Sorry but there is NEVER a justification for infidelity. Everyone has choices that they can make to the contrary, and it irks me when I see it said that she is fine in what she did because he did it first (which seems to be the prevailing thought around here that if females have RAs it is fine, but the same is not true for men.)

They are both equally deplorable because of their actions, and I am not going to join in the crowd that is just assuming the worst for her and the best for him because we have no other knowledge (meaning that people think he got off scott free and she is being nailed to the cross so to speak for the same behavior. We have nothing that shows that is what happened either way as the details are sparse, so whyt assume one way or the other?).

I am just throwing this out there as was said before this is a good study in human behavior and possibilities of actual events and how to handle these situations.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I think based on your knowledge of people you can guess fairly clearly that she was unable to forgive him in any meaningful way.

You know based on the stories we have here how long it take to get over cheating. How most people can't get over cheating. 

so she stayed with him. That's fairly meaningless. 

unless she is significantly different than most people and I mean significantly I think the conclusion that we have drawn about her state of mind and heart are probably fairly accurate. 

she should never have cheated that's for sure. She should have left him a long time ago. That's her mistake. However the marriage is dead. Exposure is not going to resurrect it. 

this is one of those rare situations where letting her go would be the most loving thing that he can do. Trying to hold on to her its the same kind of selfishness he's exhibited in the past.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Just let her go....

Whats funny is when he does she will will come back after the OM cheats on her...."if they cheat with you they will cheat on you".....

Once that happen then *their* world will be balanced again...........until the next time, when one of them start phucking around again!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Again, I will say that what he did was despicable. And he should have had severe consequences. If wrecking his career would have stopped an affair then it should have happened. This is not about wrecking careers but more about stopping infidelity and affairs, and even more so about protecting not just his but the OMW's family.

Now you are right in that he should have been grilled on what he did to show genuine remorse and help his wife and family get through the pain and sorrow. He has not replied to Philly's questions and I invite him here to do so - somehow I don't think he will, because he knows its over.

This is not about wrecking her career when he didn't have his wrecked. It is about raining hell on the predator boss and disrupting the affair so that she can see clearly what she needs to do - which is to probably leave him for everyone's good. It is also about doing the right thing for the OMW.

I agree that some of us (men) tend to see this through a perspective that can be viewed as unfair to women - but that is sometimes because this is the only POV we can give and is often based on personal experience. I do not believe that it is unfair or meant to be upholding a double standard.

If she had strayed on various ONS's (the only equivalent I can think of for massage parlours) and then decided to stop and show remorse, and then have her husband embark on an affair with a married woman at work, the advice I would give her is the same, which is:

Blow up the affair, inform the other woman's husband, have the OW fired if possible and then try and let her husband decide whats best. If that blew up her husband's employment then that is a consequence of his actions.

So I would give exactly the same advice even though it would be from my (a male's) perspective.

Anyway, misogyny, misandry, misanthropy, miss-the-good-old-days, whatever - there seems to be a troll lurking here but the discussion was good.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> There's a difference between wanting to destroy her career and wanting to disrupt/destroy the affair. He is fighting for his family.


I agree. Destroy the affair, but not her since she gave him the courtesy on not destroying him.




> And it is not a question of what punishment he should have got when she caught him - she could have handed out punishment and left him.


Sure it is. If he wants to hand out much more severe consequences to her, that makes him a hypocrite. 




> But she didn't ! She took him back to "maintain" a normal life till she could do an equally skanky thing.


So why doesn't she deserve the same consideration he got?




> And in my opinion, hers is worse because she hurt two families and sets of kids, not just one - since we are comparing notes!


Hers is only worse because she is bedding down a married man.

Its not worse in comparison to mindsink's multiple cheating incidents.


But we do agree, the affair needs to be destroyed. And if wife doesn't want it destroyed and wants to move on, he should still inform OM's wife, and leave it at that.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

vellocet said:


> I agree. Destroy the affair, but not her since she gave him the courtesy on not destroying him.
> 
> She gave herself the "courtesy" of not destroying him. She wanted to keep him until she got a chance to move on. There was no real courtesy given to him and she wasn't trying to stop an affair. She had the chance to divorce him and leave him - think about it, why didn't she ?
> 
> ...


Agreed with your last statement.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

*UPDATE!!!*

Wife has agreed to stop all non-professional correspondence with the OM for two weeks (no phone calls, text, e-mails, etc). She will see him from time to time at work, but everything is to remain strictly professional. I trust her on that. 

In two weeks time, we will be going on a "final" date to mark a special anniversary of a special day in our relationship.

During this two week period, I am to stay in another house. I can visit to see the kids, but nothing more.

We will be going on regular "dates" and day trips to get to know each other again. She wants to approach this as if we are not a married couple, but as two strangers getting to know one another. We haven't had a chance to really do that since the birth of our first child (6.5 years ago).

Both my parents as well as hers are fully aware of the situation and are all interested in keeping our marriage together, and they both disapprove of this affair and the OM. Our family units are such that we are extremely close, and my wife is exceptionally close to her father and trusts him wholeheartedly.

I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing here, but right now, she holds all the cards. After the two week period, if things don't go in my favor, I will seriously consider all options as I will be in desperation mode. This includes confronting the OM, exposing at work, and whatever else I can do to get the OM away from my wife while at the same time, not chasing her away.

This is the most important two week period of my life.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Sounds good MS

Only comment I'd have on all you wrote regards the following statement



> Both my parents as well as hers are fully aware of the situation and are all interested in keeping our marriage together, and they both disapprove of this affair and the OM


Hopefully they disapproved of your cheating as well. Nothing worse than if your wife will feel ganged up on while handling you with kid gloves. 

However, I'm sure your parents won't gang up on her if they are interested in keeping the marriage together.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Hopefully they disapproved of your cheating as well. Nothing worse than if your wife will feel ganged up on while handling you with kid gloves.
> 
> However, I'm sure your parents won't gang up on her if they are interested in keeping the marriage together.


Oh yes. My father was especially disappointed in me as a son. Her parents were (and still are) extremely angry with me for my infidelity. At the same time, they are supportive of me in my efforts to keep the family intact.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

mindsink said:


> *UPDATE!!!*
> 
> Wife has agreed to stop all non-professional correspondence with the OM for two weeks (no phone calls, text, e-mails, etc). She will see him from time to time at work, but everything is to remain strictly professional. I trust her on that.
> 
> ...


Make sure that you get everything in writing, as 2 weeks is a long time. During that period it would possibly be quite easy and possible for her to claim you left and abandoned her, the kids, and the house, and this could be used against you in divorce and custody proceedings. Tread lightly here to protect your rights. Might want to consult a lawyer to make sure your interests are protected.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> Oh yes. My father was especially disappointed in me as a son. Her parents were (and still are) extremely angry with me for my infidelity. At the same time, they are supportive of me in my efforts to keep the family intact.


Then it sounds as if you are on the right path as far as anything you can do then. Exposure of the affair, but not destruction of her.

She agreed NC with OM for 2 weeks? That part seems odd. If you are to see what happens, the NC should be indefinite unless she decides she wants contact.

Is the agreement 2 weeks, then she will start boning him again?


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

vellocet said:


> But we do agree, the affair needs to be destroyed. And if wife doesn't want it destroyed and wants to move on, he should still inform OM's wife, and leave it at that.


The OM's wife knows, and has known for one month longer than I have. She's at a state where she feels like she doesn't want him back. She also has thoughts of revenge, and she has a lot of physical evidence (e-mails, chat transcripts, hotel receipts, etc.).

My wife doesn't see it as an affair. She sees it as much more than that. She believes this man has the potential to be her life long partner.

Their personalities are identical. She is drawn to the similarities because she's never seen that before with me (My personality type is the opposite of hers - she's an extrovert, I'm an introvert).


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Then it sounds as if you are on the right path as far as anything you can do then. Exposure of the affair, but not destruction of her.
> 
> She agreed NC with OM for 2 weeks? That part seems odd. If you are to see what happens, the NC should be indefinite unless she decides she wants contact.
> 
> Is the agreement 2 weeks, then she will start boning him again?


She is a very rational and logical thinker. Even though she's in love with this other guy, she has the ability to emotionally detach herself and see things with clarity.

After the two weeks, if she decides to give our marriage another try, she will totally cut him off, and I believe her.

This two week period is not an effort at reconciliation. It's an effort to see if reconciliation is even a viable option.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> She is a very rational and logical thinker. Even though she's in love with this other guy, she has the ability to emotionally detach herself and see things with clarity.
> 
> After the two weeks, if she decides to give our marriage another try, she will totally cut him off, and I believe her.


If that is the case then one of two things need to happen.

1) OM gets another job or is fired for abusing his position
or
2) Your wife starts looking for another job. No excuses if #1 doesn't happen.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> She is a very rational and logical thinker. Even though she's in love with this other guy, she has the ability to emotionally detach herself and see things with clarity.
> 
> *After the two weeks, if she decides to give our marriage another try, she will totally cut him off, and I believe her.*
> 
> This two week period is not an effort at reconciliation. It's an effort to see if reconciliation is even a viable option.


I'd caution you here, as this comes across as extremely naive on your part. Having said that, if your WW is honest about cutting off all contact with OM after the two weeks, she will have to get a new job. Anything less than this is a half-measure at best, and is likely just a lie.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> I'd caution you here, as this comes across as extremely naive on your part. Having said that, if your WW is honest about cutting off all contact with OM after the two weeks, she will have to get a new job. Anything less than this is a half-measure at best, and is likely just a lie.


:iagree::iagree:
She will need to get a new job or you out the boss at work and get him fired.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> The OM's wife knows, and has known for one month longer than I have. She's at a state where she feels like she doesn't want him back. She also has thoughts of revenge, and she has a lot of physical evidence (e-mails, chat transcripts, hotel receipts, etc.).
> 
> *My wife doesn't see it as an affair. She sees it as much more than that. She believes this man has the potential to be her life long partner.*
> 
> Their personalities are identical. She is drawn to the similarities because she's never seen that before with me (My personality type is the opposite of hers - she's an extrovert, I'm an introvert).


Aaaaand they're off! Which hamster will win the race?!?


----------



## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

vellocet said:


> If that is the case then one of two things need to happen.
> 
> 1) OM gets another job or is fired for abusing his position
> or
> 2) Your wife starts looking for another job. No excuses if #1 doesn't happen.


Wife has been looking for another job for weeks now. She's fearful that the OMW will blow this whole thing over. She trusts that I won't.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mindsink said:


> Wife has been looking for another job for weeks now. She's fearful that the OMW will blow this whole thing over. She trusts that I won't.


Why? Nothing will happen to your wife. She is the subordinate. If they tried to fire your wife for messing with the OM, even though it was consensual, she could file suit against the company.

If the OMW blows this out of the water and exposes at work, or you do, and if the company's legal counsel is worth their fee, then they'll advise to fire the OM since it can be argued that he abused his authority.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

So did your wife admit to everything she has done after you confronted her with whatever it is you learned from the OMW? Was she prepared to be totally honest with you or are you still in the dark ?

I can see her kind of agreeing to this under pressure from her parents, but I cannot understand her cutting him off cold turkey if she is in love with him and believes him to be her soulmate.

An interesting question (but not one I think you should ask at this stage) is: if you hadn't cheated and she met this guy, would she still have fallen for him?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Also what is it that you hope to accomplish in these two weeks ? 

If she has said that he is a better match than you for her, what is she looking to find in these two weeks ? That you might be a good runner-up that she might want to stay with ? Would you be happy with this ? I don't fully get it. Especially when she says that this is not an affair but something a lot "more".

So she goes out on a date with you and sees the best you that you can be. Then what ? She sees him (professionally) at work and is reminded (in her thinking) that he is better than you (for her). You will have done everything right, but this cannot work until she sees him for the [email protected] that he is. If she settles for you while still thinking of him as Mr. Wonderful, this is going to end in disaster for you both.

This seems kind of fishy to me. Be careful here.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Also what is it that you hope to accomplish in these two weeks ?
> 
> If she has said that he is a better match than you for her, what is she looking to find in these two weeks ? That you might be a good runner-up that she might want to stay with ? Would you be happy with this ? I don't fully get it. Especially when she says that this is not an affair but something a lot "more".
> 
> ...


Yes OP observe her forget her words.:iagree:
This is confusing Man is right.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

vellocet said:


> Why? Nothing will happen to your wife. She is the subordinate. If they tried to fire your wife for messing with the OM, even though it was consensual, she could file suit against the company.
> 
> If the OMW blows this out of the water and exposes at work, or you do, and if the company's legal counsel is worth their fee, then they'll advise to fire the OM since it can be argued that he abused his authority.


Are you 100% sure about this? I've researched, and I've read that as long as it's consensual, my wife has no ground to stand on, unless she lies about the whole thing and says that she was forced into the relationship by the OM (e.g. Threatening her job)


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> So did your wife admit to everything she has done after you confronted her with whatever it is you learned from the OMW? Was she prepared to be totally honest with you or are you still in the dark ?
> 
> I can see her kind of agreeing to this under pressure from her parents, but I cannot understand her cutting him off cold turkey if she is in love with him and believes him to be her soulmate.
> 
> An interesting question (but not one I think you should ask at this stage) is: if you hadn't cheated and she met this guy, would she still have fallen for him?


Nope. I learned that my wife has been 100% honest with me since the day she told me of the OM and her desire to end our marriage.

To answer your final question -- My wife says that she would not have welcomed his advances. I want to believe her, but I'm not sure, and that's the honest truth.


----------



## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Here's another twist -- The OMW has been in contact with me the last two days. She sends me e-mails asking questions, etc. Today, she sends me an e-mail saying that she thinks my wife and OM are at a hotel (around noon). She sent me a screenshot of txt messages as proof. The OM accidentally sent a txt to his wife asking if she wants to meet at the Sheraton. The rest of the text exchange is the OM trying to say that it was a spelling autocorrect mistake. The OMW called the hotel and verified that her husband checked in there. However, the OM has already moved out of the house and is living hotel to hotel. This hotel is right near my workplace. So I decided to drive there and see. I didn't find his car nor my wife's. I went to the front desk to verify what the OMW said. He has indeed checked in.

I called my wife and asked her where she is. She said she's having lunch with the OM. Ugh. Then she lashes at me because saying I didn't trust her.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

So when does this agreement for the 2 weeks separation begin "officially" and is this lunch something that falls under the "professional" connections portion of the agreement?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> So when does this agreement for the 2 weeks separation begin "officially" and is this lunch something that falls under the "professional" connections portion of the agreement?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:banghead::slap:


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> So when does this agreement for the 2 weeks separation begin "officially" and is this lunch something that falls under the "professional" connections portion of the agreement?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We had a misunderstanding regarding the terms of the agreement. It was never written down. I sent her an e-mail with the terms to make sure we're on the same page, and she agreed.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Mind this doesn't sound good rethink this separation if nothing more than saving your sanity.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Please focus on her actions.
Her word means nothing right now.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Mind this doesn't sound good rethink this separation if nothing more than saving your sanity.


She says she needs space and that she feels stressed out by me being the house because she feels that I'm "hovering".

Aside from sanity, why do you think the temporary separation is not good?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

mindsink said:


> We had a misunderstanding regarding the terms of the agreement. It was never written down. I sent her an e-mail with the terms to make sure we're on the same page, and she agreed.


Sounds like a big misunderstanding and they always say they need space, when the truth is they need space from you and less space from the OM. Is this one last hurrah before the "official" NC starts?? Sounds like she wants the 2 week time to get her ducks in a row and just sample as she may without your knowledge. Since the OM is out of the house, she may think they are safe. Seems to coincidental to me, and to make matters worse he is living in hotels, and hotel jumping as is sounds, to hide the tracks. Sorry but he must be rich to be living in the Sheraton, which I doubt so it sounds like it was a planned rendezvous from where I sit.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

dude - she is using the 2 week separation as 2 weeks to go banging the OM. Totally disrespectful to you. Why do you think she is having lunch with him. Lawyer up.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

mindsink said:


> She says she needs space and that she feels stressed out by me being the house because she feels that I'm "hovering".
> 
> Aside from sanity, why do you think the temporary separation is not good?


Like what squeakr said she gets to hang with him with you out of the way.
Just looks like it to me.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

This does not look good at all. 


She has found her "soulmate".
She blames you for this (she would have resisted his advances - really?) while saying that he is better suited to her anyway (which suggests she would have been attracted to him anyway - in short even if you had not cheated and she remained married to you, in her mind he would have been a better choice for her).
Soulmate's wife has made it easy by kicking him out of the house.
They now have open access to hotels.
You have some vague (and still inexplicable to me) agreement that she will only have "professional" contact with him while you move out of the house - that is not written down - with no real start date. Sounds like she got you out of her hair now that you found out about the affair.
She has "agreed" for you to pay for the odd lunch (sorry "date") that she will attend with you to keep you at bay.
After 2 weeks if POSOM decides to not settle down with her she can come back to you, else she gets all her ducks in a row legally and you are history.
And you are out of the house to make this all easier - abandonment, your infidelity etc.
And the first time she is back, she goes to have lunch with him and somehow turns the tables on you for not trusting her! Incredible!
Really think about what I asked you in my previous post - think carefully about what you are trying to achieve here. Ask her what would make her change her mind about leaving - do not leave this as vague as you have done so far. Don't accept any bone she throws you and be so grateful about it.

And I didn't understand your response to my question about her coming clean about everything. It has already been established that she lied on DDay - she said kissing only and one time - you already know it was more and for a longer period. Has she now admitted this and given you any more details ? I am not sure what your answer meant when you said "Nope" followed by the really odd statement "she has been 100% honest" etc.

Please consult a lawyer for safety sake at the very least.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Like what squeakr said she gets to hang with him with you out of the way.
> Just looks like it to me.


I don't think so because she disclosed the affair to me and her intention to leave. She doesn't need my permission to hang with this guy, in other words.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

manfromlamancha said:


> This does not look good at all.
> 
> 
> She has found her "soulmate".
> ...


A couple of things that need clarification.

1. I didn't catch her. She told me she is leaving me for him. Since that point, she has been completely honest with me about when she will be meeting him (half day on weekends, etc.).

2. She didn't lie about the affair. She disclosed every intimate detail (e.g. They had sex).


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

mindsink, 

If she is having lunch with OM the very next day, how is that not a breach of the two week agreement? How is that not lying to you?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> mindsink,
> 
> If she is having lunch with OM the very next day, how is that not a breach of the two week agreement? How is that not lying to you?


Mindsink her ACTIONS are showing she has zero respect for you and is moving on.:scratchhead:


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

anchorwatch said:


> mindsink,
> 
> If she is having lunch with OM the very next day, how is that not a breach of the two week agreement? How is that not lying to you?


She said that she misunderstood the terms of the agreement. She thought that it was only no correspondence outside of work hours. He asked her to go to the hotel. She said no. :scratchhead:


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

mindsink said:


> A couple of things that need clarification.
> 
> 1. I didn't catch her. She told me she is leaving me for him. Since that point, she has been completely honest with me about when she will be meeting him (half day on weekends, etc.).
> 
> 2. She didn't lie about the affair. She disclosed every intimate detail (e.g. They had sex).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only reason she disclosed all this because the OMW found out and was going to blow the lid off?

That's not admitting this herself. She had no choice but to tell you about it.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

did you agree to let her bang him. that is what I am hearing you say. If so, very bad idea and 2 weeks later she is still going to be in lurve with him.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Mindsink her ACTIONS are showing she has zero respect for you and is moving on.:scratchhead:


I see what you're saying, but why then is she stringing me along? What's the point? She already disclosed every little detail of the affair. She agreed to this trial period. Why not just serve me divorce papers from the beginning?


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

mindsink said:


> I see what you're saying, but why then is she stringing me along? What's the point? She already disclosed every little detail of the affair. She agreed to this trial period. Why not just serve me divorce papers from the beginning?


Cake eating having two guys after her nice ego boost and you are looking weak in her eyes by accepting this and he is looking like mr alpha taking what he wants...her.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

To keep torturing you with everything or possibly keeping good old plan b around in case she needs you. What happens when the OM wife unloads on her and she loses her job, she will need some financial security until she finds another?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

3putt said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only reason she disclosed all this because the OMW found out and was going to blow the lid off?
> 
> That's not admitting this herself. She had no choice but to tell you about it.


She said that she wanted to tell me long ago, but didn't know how to tell me because she felt bad. (I know, classic, right?)

The OMW already attempted to blow the lid off in the beginning, but has been kept in check by the OM (signed legal agreement).

The other question is -- how close should I get to the OMW? On the surface, she seems like she can be a valuable ally. However, I know she can be manipulative. She can easily try to manipulate me into doing her dirty work. That's my fault, because I have a tendency to inherently trust people.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> Here's another twist -- The OMW has been in contact with me the last two days. She sends me e-mails asking questions, etc. Today, she sends me an e-mail saying that she thinks my wife and OM are at a hotel (around noon). She sent me a screenshot of txt messages as proof. The OM accidentally sent a txt to his wife asking if she wants to meet at the Sheraton. The rest of the text exchange is the OM trying to say that it was a spelling autocorrect mistake. The OMW called the hotel and verified that her husband checked in there. However, the OM has already moved out of the house and is living hotel to hotel. This hotel is right near my workplace. So I decided to drive there and see. I didn't find his car nor my wife's. I went to the front desk to verify what the OMW said. He has indeed checked in.
> 
> I called my wife and asked her where she is. She said she's having lunch with the OM. Ugh. Then she lashes at me because saying I didn't trust her.


*cough* VAR in the car!

*cough* Pen VAR in the purse!

Also, if you're out of your house, how do you know that he's not IN your house?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Now you would look "alpha" if say...you got him fired.:lol:


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Cake eating having two guys after her nice ego boost and you are looking weak in her eyes by accepting this and he is looking like mr alpha taking what he wants...her.


I see your point, but you don't know my wife. She's the alpha here, and has both sets of balls (mine and the OM's) in her hands.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> *cough* VAR in the car!
> 
> *cough* Pen VAR in the purse!
> 
> Also, if you're out of your house, how do you know that he's not IN your house?


I have surveillance cameras. If they mysteriously "stop working", then I know what's up.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mindsink said:


> She says she needs space and that she feels stressed out by me being the house because she feels that I'm "hovering".
> 
> Aside from sanity, why do you think the temporary separation is not good?


LOL... "hovering". I'm sure she meant to say "c*ckblocking".


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

mindsink said:


> I have surveillance cameras. If they mysteriously "stop working", then I know what's up.


Pen var is $99 I think on amazon.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: Re: Wife is cheating, but I cheated first (NEED HELP PLEASE)*



mindsink said:


> I see what you're saying, but why then is she stringing me along? What's the point? She already disclosed every little detail of the affair. She agreed to this trial period. Why not just serve me divorce papers from the beginning?


Their plan isn't completely solid yet. Two divorces, two sets of financial woes, two Exs, two sets of children. That all cost money and can be a burden on a future. Most of all being prepared for the blow back and if an Ex gets a aggressive in court. I'm sure there is more too. Lots for them to plan isn't? It's all about you and your family's future. Do you think it time to include yourself?

She misunderstood the agreement, meh.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Pen var is $99 I think on amazon.


Won't do any good unless they can record and save for 2 weeks while he is out of the house. The chances of him getting back in time to swap it, download, and put it back to catch more during the two weeks time is not good. Anyway, anything he catches she will just dismiss as him being controlling, not keeping their agreement, or another "misunderstanding" of their email agreement (which unless witnessed and notarized probably doesn't mean anything "legally" anyway and was just her way to get him out of the picture until she can gain more control).


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

Pattiroxxi said:


> No I didn't do that. I did it with random men though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How romantic.

Your mom must be proud.

Walking away with your head held high is for suckers, right? Doing the right thing was not an option, I suppose.


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

anchorwatch said:


> Their plan isn't completely solid yet. Two divorces, two sets of financial woes, two Exs, two sets of children. That all cost money and can be a burden on a future. Most of all being prepared for the blow back and if an Ex gets a aggressive in court. I'm sure there is more too. Lots for them to plan isn't? It's all about you and your family's future. Do you think it time to include yourself?
> 
> She misunderstood the agreement, meh.


She claims that she would have left me with or without the OM. She was actually contemplating not telling me about the OM. I played nice in the beginning because I was trying too hard to move on and I fooled myself into thinking "whatever makes her happy, makes me happy".

Basically, she said the OM was the nail in the coffin.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

mindsink said:


> She claims that she would have left me with or without the OM. She was actually contemplating not telling me about the OM. I played nice in the beginning because I was trying too hard to move on and I fooled myself into thinking "whatever makes her happy, makes me happy".
> 
> Basically, she said the OM was the nail in the coffin.


Are your guys finances separate?
I hope so.
With what you just said what is there to save?
Go see a lawyer next week and protect yourself.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

mindsink said:


> She claims that she would have left me with or without the OM. She was actually contemplating not telling me about the OM. I played nice in the beginning because I was trying too hard to move on and I fooled myself into thinking "whatever makes her happy, makes me happy".
> 
> Basically, she said the OM was the nail in the coffin.


I'm not looking to to blow out the only candle you have left, but you should believe her when she says she's done. You're lapping up the crumbs she is throwing you as a hope of reconciliation. When it's only manipulation to keep you docile so you won't make this harder for them. The other reason she could be dragging this out is because she's not ready. She needs to get you out of the house too, as it will aid their plan. 

Whatever happens, I advise you not to leave your house. If you do it will be to your detriment. Believe me when I say, you won't be allowed back in. Within a short time after the trial period the OM will leave his hotel and take up residence in your home. You are going to have to stop being a nice guy and start protecting yourself. I suggest you see a lawyer ASAP, if only not be deceived as to your legal rights to the home and your family. You're going to have to stop capitulating to her demands out of guilt from your past transgressions and fear of her leaving you. She already has left. Nothing you do now will change that. If she wants to return she will. She will return regardless if you did or didn't do something to protect yourself. Go find a lawyer today


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> I'm not looking to to blow out the only candle you have left, but you should believe her when she says she's done. The only reason she could be dragging this out is because she's not ready. She needs to get you out of the house.
> 
> Whatever happens, I advise you not to leave your house. If you do it will be to your detriment. Believe me when I say, you won't be allowed back in. Within a short time after the trial period the OM will leave his hotel and take up residence in your home. You going to have to stop being a nice guy and start protect yourself. I suggest you see a lawyer ASAP, if only not be deceived as to your legal rights to the home and your family. Your going to have to stop capitulating to her demands out of guilt from your past transgressions and fear of her leaving you. She already has. Nothing you do now will change that. If she wants to return she will. She will return regardless of if you did or didn't do something to protect yourself. Go find a lawyer today


All she has to do is get a restraining order on you and just like that you are out.
Other man is in.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Like is ruined a few pages ago. Abandonment of family and house could easily be claimed since it is such an extended timeframe. Hers was more than likely an exit A but she doesn't have to run it in your face like she is. Those whom have exit As general recite the same script she is working from. I would have left anyway, it wasn't about the OM that just happened, etc. It is time to consult a lawyer to protect your interests while you still have them. Might also be a good time to secure any weapons outside of the residence so she can't try and use that against you either, like was said with the RO comment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

how could you have conveniently left out that the other man's wife has been in touch with you for a second and very short email? Seems weird.


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## Boyd (Jul 12, 2014)

Mindsink!

Folks recommended it but got off topic and didn't share a useful link that I could see.

The 180 list is here:

The Healing Heart: The 180

Please tell me you talked to a lawyer before you moved out of the marital home. Where I live it doesn't affect custody but in some places your moving out is construed as abandonment and is bad bad bad for you. Talk to a lawyer. 

Boyd


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Anchor watch is right. OP should not move out. Let WW move out. OM is living in a hotel? I guess he wants to move into a house with his lover. Tell her to go live in his hotel.

Clipclop is on to something. What does OM's wife do for a living?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Again, I maintain that she was not 100% honest with you.


Yes, she "told" you about it after she was outed anyway (and this probably derailed her plan to completely sideblind you) - this is not honest.

She agreed to a reconciliation even though (almost by her own admission now) she was planning to leave you and just waiting for the right time - this is not honest.

The POSOM (see, I try not to for get the POS in POSOM so that I remind you that he is not Mr Wonderful like you keep describing but a dirty lowdown [email protected] who uses his position to seduce married women - extrovert my a$$) came along and gave her the perfect opportunity to start her exit plan while having another port to anchor in - this is not honest.

And now she is telling you that she misunderstood that she should not be having lunch with the POSOM (in the office, out of the office wherever) - this is not honest.

So, basically you have to accept that she is a liar and will say and do anything to string you, her parents, your parents, anybody along until she gets what she wants.

Now, what you should do is:

Don't accept any of this bull$h!t any more. Move back into your house before its too late. Lawyer up and start protecting your custody etc. Separate finances. Go on the offensive. Your kids should not be hanging around a toxic cheater like POSOM. Get a protective order for that. Expose the hell out of this affair now! Get him fired! You may be able to sue the company for enabling alienation of affection. You could get a huge cheque from them. See your kids whenever you want them until she decides to leave the house. Then she might take them and the custody battles begin. And ... file for divorce first. This is over.

Your call --- you can keep your head in the sand or see the very clear writing on the wall. If you do not blow up this affair there is NO chance that she is coming back to you and you will get hurt badly.


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## Pattiroxxi (May 3, 2014)

TimeHeals said:


> How romantic.
> 
> Your mom must be proud.
> 
> Walking away with your head held high is for suckers, right? Doing the right thing was not an option, I suppose.


My mom does not know about what i did. No it is not, but i couldn't stop thinking about all the time i lost with him, and how he could even think about doing something like that behind my back, plus all the stuff he let them do to him. It completely threw me off and i got filled with anger and jealousy. I felt good afterwards, i needed it. 

The OP's wife clearly doesn't know how to play a cheater's game. 5 years is a horrendous time, i had to put up with 1 and i nearly had to visit a mental health therapist. If i would be the wife i would not let him off that easily.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

are you really so dense that you can't see wht's really going on ??

This is NOT the woman you married.
Would the woman you married breakup a family to get wht she wants ?
So why do you feel she is being honest with you ?

I don't even have to go and read the part about 2 wk. hold on contact. From memory, " no contact except in a business setting".
What is biz about a social lunch ??
Now if I, not being there can understand that, why can't she.

Bottom line, you being played until they have their ducks in line.

I really don't know if this marriage can survive, but your BEST chance.
1. DON'T move out !!!
2. File D.
Tell her you love her enuff to let her go, even if she can't decide.

You came asking for advice, so remember this, " there come a time when YOU have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it".
So I say, it's time for you to start planning your life without her.
She feels she don't owe you anything after your A's, so to her, manipulating you is no hardship for her, until they get their ducks in a row.

Read the threads dude.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Also, give her this " been there, done you, had better ".
It will piss her off, but she will see she is not the only V between 2 legs.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

MS, go read this thread by jj123456. It active now.

"Did anyone stay in their marriage after A, to prepare for D on their terms".

Maybe that will give you and idea from some of the answers


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Mindsink report this pos at his company on monday just do it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Mindsink report this pos at his company on monday just do it.


I forgot to add there are two guys here whose wives were screwing around with their bosses and both got 6 figure settlements from the companies to keep quiet.
Talk to a lawyer about it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You all know how this is going to work out. The other man has out maned him and he is going to go down without a fight.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> You all know how this is going to work out. The other man has out maned him and he is going to go down without a fight.


I hope not


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> You all know how this is going to work out. The other man has out maned him and he is going to go down without a fight.


Husband shot himself in both feet, then wonders why his feet hurt so bad.

It's sad but you make your bed, you get to lie in it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Husband shot himself in both feet, then wonders why his feet hurt so bad.
> 
> It's sad but you make your bed, you get to lie in it.




Pretty much. He already lowered his value as a man when he resorted to paying for trash. Hookers have such high standards.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

mindsink said:


> I see what you're saying, but why *then is she stringing me along? What's the point?* She already disclosed every little detail of the affair. She agreed to this trial period. Why not just serve me divorce papers from the beginning?



BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT READY YET! This dude is living from hotel to hotel. Not an ideal living situation if she wants to take the kids with her. No judge would release them to her! 

This two week situation isn't for you and her! Not at all! The OMW has probably threatened exposure to the workplace and they've already admitted that they're more scared of her than you. Therefore, they're taking her threat seriously. They're cooling it off around the work place so if the OMW exposes, an investigation will happen and people will be brought in to be interviewed. They'll ask them if they've seen anything inappropriate has been going on and they can say, "No, nothing that I've seen!". 

One thing about most women. They won't leave blindly. They'll have something set up before they go. Either a new place to live or a massive support network to lean on and help them. 

This is what I would do if I were you. She already stated that you can have access to the kids. Call her and show up to say "Hi' to the kids. But, then tell her that you need to retrieve something from the bedroom. When you get up there. Have a Voice Activated Recorder with you and hide it in the master bedroom. But HIDE IT WELL!!!! She doesn't trust you so she look around after you leave. Grab a work shirt or something and leave. After a few days, repeat the process, go up there and retrieve the VAR. Or sneak over there everyday that you know when she's at work and see if there's anything new that was recorded. I speculate that she's still talking to the jackass and will talk to him in the privacy of the bedroom. You might get a one-sided conversation of what her true game plan is.


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## ken7572 (Jul 14, 2014)

After the personal experience I just went through, I don't recommend living together if she continues to see him.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## mindsink (Jul 2, 2014)

I don't think she wants to take the kids with her. She wants both of us in their lives. She's made this clear time and time again. After I refused to move out, she has agreed that both of us continue to live in the house. If things get uncomfortable, then SHE will move out (live with her parents).


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

mindsink said:


> I see your point, but you don't know my wife. She's the alpha here, and has both sets of balls (mine and the OM's) in her hands.


THAT IS NOT LOVE MINDSINK, THAT IS MANIPULATION.

You just confirmed that she is holding all the cards (balls) in her hands.

Not the best way to save your marriage these next two weeks.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> THAT IS NOT LOVE MINDSINK, THAT IS MANIPULATION.
> 
> You just confirmed that she is holding all the cards (balls) in her hands.
> 
> Not the best way to save your marriage these next two weeks.


Sigh...
I hope you see some lawyers this week.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ken7572 said:


> After the personal experience I just went through, I don't recommend living together if she continues to see him.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


It amplifies your man-hood, huh?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Just checking in, mindsink... How are things?


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