# Plan B



## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

In some of the cases of infidelity the WS was intending to leave the BS for OM/OW. They come back after either:
1. They are dumped
2. They find out OM/OW had no intention of having a relationship and was only after sex.
3. It didn't work out
4. In some cases a WS has tried over and over to talk to the BS without getting anywhere. And when the affair happens the BS starts to change and the WS may come back because of this.

If you're a BS in this situation and are thinking of whether or not to take them back then you have to decide if you're ok with being Plan B. This is what you will probably be in the first 3 points. Some people can live with this. And if you are then by all means reconcile with the WS. Of course #4 is the best case scenario even if it is a crappy thing to happen. They shouldn't have cheated and instead asked for a divorce. But in this case you may be able to say you weren't plan B. That they just wanted their relationship with you back but lost hope. At least in this situation the WS had tried to work things out first. Still not an excuse for cheating. 

For the first 3 points you're relationship wouldn't have been perfect. No ones is. You also have to realise that they weren't either. Even if you were the perfect spouse a counsellor would give the reason for the affair to be because the WS felt inferior in the relationship. So don't think about how if you had been a better spouse it wouldn't have happened. They would have still met OM/OW and still been attracted to them. You have to realise that no matter what your past relationships, family or marriage history is, there is a reason given for why the affair happened. Everyone on this planet could go to a counsellor, say they've cheated, and they'd be given a reason why. Even though they haven't. 

So next would be regrets the WS who comes back might have.

1. They wished they hadn't went with the OM/OW because the end result was reasons 1, 2 or 3. Not because they always wanted to be with the BS but because they didn't get what they wanted and the betrayed spouse will do for now. Instead they got the consequences of their actions.
2. The BS asks for transparency and so now if they meet someone new that they are attracted to its going to be so much harder for them to hide it. So they may not do it again. And instead they'll be thinking if they hadn't went with the first OM/OW they could have with this new one and it may have worked.
3. The BS no longer fully trusts them. Some of the things they liked to do are no longer allowed. They may have to cut ties with certain friends. They may have to quit a job they loved as OM/OW works there.
4. They realise they should have asked for a divorce if the BS refused to try to work on the problems. They may have ended up divorced or the BS may have actually tried to work on things.
5. They realise they should have talked to the BS if there was anything they were unhappy with instead of acting as though everything was great. Some even get angry at a BS (before meeting OM/OW) if the BS notices something wrong and tries to talk about it.

I haven't put in the reasons above that a WS may feel bad about hurting the BS. Even a WS who leaves and marries the OM/OW may feel bad about hurting the BS. 

So can you be happy as plan B? Yes. You could have a great relationship from then on. Your WS may never cheat again. Communication between you both may be a lot better than before. Both your needs and theirs could be met when before they weren't as now that they communicate what you want it can be achieved. And this can happen if the reasons for coming back were 1, 2, 3 or 4.

So when it comes to adultery why doesn't it happen again?

1. The WS may not do this again because of how much it hurt the BS. They realise how selfish they were and that they were only thinking of themselves. They know that if there is something they are unhappy with they need to communicate this with the BS and not try to get it from someone who isn't their spouse. 
2. They don't want to take the chance. If they do it again and it doesn't work out the BS may not take them back this time. They don't want to be alone. And they may think that they won't get a better relationship than the one they have. It didn't work with OM/OW so it may not work next time. It doesn't matter what the BS does, how much emotional support they give, the money they make or that they work hard to meet their needs. For these people they are always wanting more, no matter how much you give. 

Obviously I always hope its reason #1.

Some WS's will cheat again but this time they will be even more careful hiding it. I won't give examples of how to do this as anyone can read this and use it. Though its not hard to find on the internet.

So lets say you do decide to reconcile with the WS. You can't hold this over their head for the rest of their lives. Some BS's will do something that hurts the WS years later and they'll say that they cheated so they can't complain. You decided to work things out so you can't keep doing this. Yes, at first it will be hard. All I'm saying is you can't keep throwing it in their face any time they bring up a problem in the relationship or if they are hurt over something you did. It isn't a free pass to treat the WS like crap whenever you feel like it. If you can't do this then its better to end the relationship. Again I'll state that at the beginning this is going to be hard and the WS has to have some consequences for their actions. This doesn't include being treat badly.

I know a lot of the points above apply to any type of affair. So maybe I shouldn't use 'Plan B' as my thread title. Can't think of another one so I'll leave it as it is. 

There will be other points I haven't mentioned, you may disagree with some, so if you can think of something please do so. I'm not the best at putting my thoughts in to words. And obviously I'm not some relationship Guru who knows everything. Are there any WS's on here who even many years later can't bring up problems in the relationship or complain about being treat badly because the BS says that they should just be happy that they stayed with them after the affair? Even though you work hard on the relationship and continue to be transparent.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

My old lady never had a plan , she just phucked around from guy to guy.
So keeping her around really isn't much of a plan either. I figured what the hell after all the crap we did to each other it was worth a shot as long as we both keep the positive changes going and don't fall back into unhealthy habits.

My thinking is work hard on your self and if your cheating spouse want to reap the rewards and stick around then fine if not then they can go pound sand. After all the wayward is the one that screwed up. They were looking for something better and it fell apart...so who's the dumb @ss?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OP, are you a happy plan B?

I am a happy APEX. There is no one else on my playing field and there never will be.

If my wife can't worship at my "alter" and no one elses, she will be gone.

I am a jealous god.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I wasn't Plan B because my husband didn't want a divorce and fought it for a long time when I said I was getting one. I have too much pride to ever settle for being Plan B so if he had wanted to be with the OW I would not have agreed to R on DD1. 

I have an unusual story in that I was in R for 30 years until my husband cheated again with the same OW (or never really completely stopped -- I'll never know which). I divorced him after DD2 and wish I had divorced him after DD1. We live and learn. I am not pro-R although there are obviously cases where the WS really is remorseful and a better marriage is built from the ashes of the first. Those are success stories. 

However, the BS does not ever forget. And triggers can last a lifetime. For those 30 years between DD1 and DD2 I triggered every time I heard the OW's first name or the city we lived in then or songs from that era or mention of her occupation. It didn't help that my husband periodically traveled back to that city on business. I didn't bring the OW up much after the first couple of years but she was never out of my mind. 

Once you learn what your spouse is capable of, the innocence is forever gone. And unconditional trust is gone too. My former husband realizes (now that it's too late) all that was lost and wishes he had been a better man. I do too. But I don't believe in focusing on regret. There's life to be lived and I've moved on.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> OP, are you a happy plan B?
> 
> I am a happy APEX. There is no one else on my playing field and there never will be.
> 
> ...


No. I wouldn't forgive infidelity of any kind. I just couldn't stomach it. The truth is I don't fully understand how people can stay with a WS. I would never trust them ever again or think that they cared for me. So me loving them isn't reason enough. But I know some people do. Everyone thinks differently. Then again for all I know even the BS that says they are happy may not be and they are just trying to make themselves believe this. This is something I will never know unless I suddenly acquire psychic powers, which isn't going to happen. So I didn't want to offend people or say they aren't happy when I don't know. I don't know if they're happy or not.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SevenYears said:


> No. I wouldn't forgive infidelity of any kind. I just couldn't stomach it. The truth is I don't fully understand how people can stay with a WS. I would never trust them ever again or think that they cared for me. So me loving them isn't reason enough. But I know some people do. Everyone thinks differently. Then again for all I know even the BS that says they are happy may not be and they are just trying to make themselves believe this. This is something I will never know unless I suddenly acquire psychic powers, which isn't going to happen. So I didn't want to offend people or say they aren't happy when I don't know. I don't know if they're happy or not.


You wouldn't forgive infidelity of any kind... well, as far as you know.

There might come a point in your life when you would be able to forgive infidelity. Perhaps not, but you might.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

SevenYears said:


> No. I wouldn't forgive infidelity of any kind. I just couldn't stomach it. The truth is I don't fully understand how people can stay with a WS. I would never trust them ever again or think that they cared for me. So me loving them isn't reason enough. But I know some people do. Everyone thinks differently. Then again for all I know even the BS that says they are happy may not be and they are just trying to make themselves believe this. This is something I will never know unless I suddenly acquire psychic powers, which isn't going to happen. So I didn't want to offend people or say they aren't happy when I don't know. I don't know if they're happy or not.





Which is one of the hardest parts about reconciliation you have to trust someone who's proven to be untrustworthy you have to trust that every single I love you and all the acts of affection/atonement or genuine and not simply a survival instinct it's very difficult if not impossible to tell the difference.


Just like before and during their affair you don't know what's rattling around in their heads and that quite frankly is the real killer of R


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> You wouldn't forgive infidelity of any kind... well, as far as you know.
> 
> There might come a point in your life when you would be able to forgive infidelity. Perhaps not, but you might.


True. You never know what you may do in the future. My opinion right now is that I wouldn't but like you say that could end up changing. I've seen threads where a BS always thought they would never take back a WS but when it happened they did.

Its strange because at first this thread was started out as me wondering why anyone would take back a WS when they were plan B. But I kept editing it, thinking of the people on here who did take back the WS and stated they are happy. It would be insulting of me to say they aren't when they should know better than me how they feel.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SevenYears said:


> True. You never know what you may do in the future. My opinion right now is that I wouldn't but like you say that could end up changing. I've seen threads where a BS always thought they would never take back a WS but when it happened they did.
> 
> Its strange because at first this thread was started out as me wondering why anyone would take back a WS when they were plan B. But I kept editing it, thinking of the people on here who did take back the WS and stated they are happy. It would be insulting of me to say they aren't when they should know better than me how they feel.


And I think I may well have been my wife's Plan B.

Oh, well.

We have been together in total for 25 years, now.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

In truth, all of us are plan B's, even when we thought we were plan A. There is always someone out there that is better. Just like everyone says there is no soul mate. The opposite is that there is always someone better out there. That's a little disheartening.


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## SomeGuyWhoNeedsHelp (Nov 21, 2014)

I probably would have been more forgiving if I was told soon after the first time she cheated. But since it took 7 years for my wife to admit it, and we've been married 15? I want to do everything I can to make sure he current relationship with the OM doesn't last, just to say NO when she wants to reconcile with me.

Of course, that assumes I think she would want to...


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> In truth, all of us are plan B's, even when we thought we were plan A. There is always someone out there that is better. Just like everyone says there is no soul mate. The opposite is that there is always someone better out there. That's a little disheartening.


:iagree::iagree:


I agree it's one of the reasons why swinging has never truly made sense to me you are essentially allowing competition free access to your spouse and it's only a matter of time before they start thinking about upgrading.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

After thinking a while, it can be liberating. Why? Because we can really believe that we have a choice and not just think we are stuck. This allows us to take our spouse off the pedestal and place them with their feet firmly on the ground beside us. 

Thanks for starting this thread. It made me think and helped me, too. 

xakulax, that's what I always thought in my head, but felt it might be insecurity. It really isn't. Is it? It's just reality. I think. Maybe you can help me with that?


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> After thinking a while, it can be liberating. Why? Because we can really believe that we have a choice and not just think we are stuck. This allows us to take our spouse off the pedestal and place them with their feet firmly on the ground beside us.
> 
> Thanks for starting this thread. It made me think and helped me, too.
> 
> *xakulax, that's what I always thought in my head, but felt it might be insecurity. It really isn't. Is it? It's just reality. I think. Maybe you can help me with that*?




I need a decoder ring that one


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Truth be known, most everybody is a plan B to somebody. Think about it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> In truth, all of us are plan B's, even when we thought we were plan A. There is always someone out there that is better. Just like everyone says there is no soul mate. The opposite is that there is always someone better out there. That's a little disheartening.


There is no one better than me. I am the absolute and only, Apex mate to my wife.

There is no competition, no game, no chance for anyone else.

I am worth that much and I know it. I respect myself far too much to settle for anything else and I give her the same.

She is also my Apex mate. We are as serious as life and death on our commitment and we tolerate no breach of our holy union.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> There is no one better than me. I am the absolute and only, Apex mate to my wife.
> 
> There is no competition, no game, no chance for anyone else.
> 
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> There is no one better than me. I am the absolute and only, Apex mate to my wife.
> 
> There is no competition, no game, no chance for anyone else.
> 
> ...


Soul mates, huh? Most don't believe in them. Whatever works for you.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

...there's only one thing worse than a pessimist 

and that's an optimist. 

;-)


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## BrightEyes86 (Nov 1, 2014)

As far as some peoples' beliefs that soul mates are bogus and there's always someone better out there, I'm not certain that there's always someone who's _better_ per sey - just also compatible. You can be compatible in a relationship with numerous people, the rule doesn't have to be that there's only one person you'll ever meet in your life who you work with. When you think of it that way that's kind of depressing for the singles out there - how are they supposed to meet that one person and how will they know? No, really it's more like there are plenty of people out there who you'd be compatible with if given half a chance. None of them are necessarily better than any others.

For those who continuously wander from their relationships, I think they suffer from a dangerous thought pattern that those other people they meet _are_ better. The grass is always greener right? Then when they cross the fence they realize (hopefully) that the grass is just the same, nothing is really better. They're the type of people who are never satisfied with what they have and are always looking for the next best thing.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Yes, there is always someone better, but a) you'd have to find them, b) they'd have to think the same about you, c) they would have to be so much better that it's worth throwing away an already great relationship with known reliability and happiness, and d) you'd need enough time to establish that this perception is real and lasting. In short, it's not likely to happen if the existing relationship is good, and if it isn't that good, then it's probably a good idea to go for that better relationship.

Our philosophy is that we're together because we want to be, and that if we truly think we'd be happier long term with someone else, we should pursue that happiness. Since our relationship is incredibly good, it would be virtually impossible to find anyone better, and even more difficult to establish that such a person would persistently and consistently be better as that takes lots of time and contact. We have the great history - someone new can't compete with that! 

So, we're not worried about competition, and at least for us, the argument against swinging (or polyamory or an open relationship) is empty and devoid of substance. For similar reasons, we're not concerned about cheating. Your beliefs and relationship may be different of course, and YMMV.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I think the operative word here is plan. 

there may be thousands upon thousands of people who are better but were they ever in any sort of plan? probably not. when you have two people in direct competition as in cheating or lying for someone to sections when in the dating pool yes there is a plan a and plan B. There is always a loser though sometimes the loser is actually the winner. guess that needs a decoder ring as well.

I think it's a lot less of plan A and Plan B for normal relations then it is finding someone thats good enough. and there's certainly nothing wrong with being good enough. the alternative is perpetual dating and perpetually trying to upgrade your mate and that's a lot of work and most people really don't want to do that even if there are better options out there . you can see that in just how hard some people try to hold on to marriages after infidelity.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Plan B? It strictly equates to nothing more than a mantra of self-serving cake eating. If someone wants to get their ashes hauled by a going out and getting themselves a piece of strange, the philanderer had better think back to the solemn vows they made before God, as well as their families and friends, "to love, honor, and cherish; forsaking all others."

If they are unable to comply with fulfilling those vows, then maybe it would be far better for them to remain single and eat up all the cake that they can; rather than to seek the security that a marriage is intended to offer.

Once joined in marital union, if the WS is all hot and bothered to get them a piece of strange, then they should have the common decency to legally end the marriage before going out and summarily dropping their drawers while, all too often, a spouse and family are faithfully waiting for them back at home!

No matter how they choose to paint 
the portrait, it all adds up to nothing more than selfish cake-eating!


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

It all depends. Some people just want sex and can keep the emotions out of it.

The plan Bs is when emotions come into play. Trust me, when the affair is going on, you are Plan B no matter how you try to twist and turn it. Trying to fit that square peg into a round hole.

Eventually some WS finally see the light and realize their BS should have always been plan A and there should have never been a plan B. But, coming from a former WS where there was love involved (or supposed love, more like lust at times) YOU WERE PLAN B at the beginning.

We're always planning an exit strat if we're cheating, ALWAYS. Unless it's just purely for sex then this holds true.

Sometimes, having the entire truth will set you free from the cheater. But then again, we'll (WS) just lie our way through it saying you were always plan A and the famous lines

I don't know.
I can't remember.
Or the deer in the headlights and silence.

BTW, 16 years later, trust me I can remember almost everything even when I was drunk or stoned 1/2 of the time with the OW. Not every detail but how it started, how I felt, how it ended, etc....Any spouse who gives the famous lines up there is full of Sh.......! Unless aliens came down and magically removed their memories of the affair.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Soul mates, huh? Most don't believe in them. Whatever works for you.


Better than soul mates. I don't necessarily agree with that term.

We chose each other. I don't believe in stars and fates and fairy dust.

I know that a person can choose who they want to be and who they want to be with.

Life is what people make it. I chose a woman that could honor our union as holy and untouchable.

Our marriage has never been up for grabs or even approachable by an outside force. It is on a different plane where it can be observed but not touched.

We chose to have our marriage be that important to us. A highest priority worth living for and even dying to protect.

I could not be with a child that thought less seriously of a marriage commitment.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. People can also choose to be better mates and change.

People are not static and can choose to change for better or worse.

People can choose to be the best mate in the world to their spouse or they can choose to be less.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, there is always someone better, but a) you'd have to find them, b) they'd have to think the same about you, c) they would have to be so much better that it's worth throwing away an already great relationship with known reliability and happiness, and d) you'd need enough time to establish that this perception is real and lasting. In short, it's not likely to happen if the existing relationship is good, and if it isn't that good, then it's probably a good idea to go for that better relationship.
> 
> Our philosophy is that we're together because we want to be, and that if we truly think we'd be happier long term with someone else, we should pursue that happiness. Since our relationship is incredibly good, it would be virtually impossible to find anyone better, and even more difficult to establish that such a person would persistently and consistently be better as that takes lots of time and contact. We have the great history - someone new can't compete with that!
> 
> So, we're not worried about competition, and at least for us, the argument against swinging (or polyamory or an open relationship) is empty and devoid of substance. For similar reasons, we're not concerned about cheating. Your beliefs and relationship may be different of course, and YMMV.


And that's always the problem with these affairs. All the WS and OM/OW have together is the romance (probably not the best word but couldn't think of anything else) and sex. They don't have to think about all the other things about being together like bills, housework, children etc. But when the WS leaves the BS for OM/OW they have to think of these things and lo and behold it isn't as much fun anymore. The most ridiculous example would be female WS's who leave for a jobless OM. Its great during the affair that they get to spend so much time together unlike the husband (Who actually works) But its not much fun when you have no money. Plus the honeymoon period usually wears off after a while and also part of the excitement for them would have been the fact it was an affair.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

BrightEyes86 said:


> As far as some peoples' beliefs that soul mates are bogus and there's always someone better out there, I'm not certain that there's always someone who's _better_ per sey - just also compatible. You can be compatible in a relationship with numerous people, the rule doesn't have to be that there's only one person you'll ever meet in your life who you work with. When you think of it that way that's kind of depressing for the singles out there - how are they supposed to meet that one person and how will they know? No, really it's more like there are plenty of people out there who you'd be compatible with if given half a chance. None of them are necessarily better than any others.
> 
> *For those who continuously wander from their relationships, I think they suffer from a dangerous thought pattern that those other people they meet are better.* The grass is always greener right? Then when they cross the fence they realize (hopefully) that the grass is just the same, nothing is really better. They're the type of people who are never satisfied with what they have and are always looking for the next best thing.


The truth is, there is someone that is always just a little more compatible to much more compatible. We choose the best option available at the time. We allow ourselves to love them, and deal with any differences. Why are we all here or at another similar site? Working on issues in relationships? Trying to learn from our mistakes? Probably not soul mates. Likely there is someone you would not have to work as hard with. We choose as wisely as we are able. 

By the way, I'm not picking on you. I just thought it would be interesting to explain my opinion and your post was convenient.

ETA: I've not cheated on anyone. I cheated myself out of lots of stuff, though. One of them was a better life.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> The truth is, there is someone that is always just a little more compatible to much more compatible. We choose the best option available at the time. We allow ourselves to love them, and deal with any differences. Why are we all here or at another similar site? Working on issues in relationships? Trying to learn from our mistakes? Probably not soul mates. Likely there is someone you would not have to work as hard with. We choose as wisely as we are able.
> 
> By the way, I'm not picking on you. I just thought it would be interesting to explain my opinion and your post was convenient.
> 
> ETA: I've not cheated on anyone. I cheated myself out of lots of stuff, though. One of them was a better life.




There's always going to be somebody better in some way shape or form the reality is we all choose our mates for a variety of reasons but none of those reasons are unique to that individual this is the reason why I've never been a believer in the soulmate concept we can all be supplanted what it really boils down to it's the shared history and the work put into the relationship is what makes it valuable


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Better than soul mates. I don't necessarily agree with that term.
> 
> We chose each other. *I don't believe in stars and fates and fairy dust.*
> I know that a person can choose who they want to be and who they want to be with.
> ...


Hmm. I hope you are right. I don't doubt your veracity. I do want to say that part does read like there is a little dust involved. 

If you read what you wrote, you are saying pretty much what I am.  Even if there is another, better mate out there for you two, which is actually likely, you are the kind of man that does what he says and says what he does. You do not make a commitment lightly and you will give your all for your beliefs. Sounds like your wife is the same. Good on both of you!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I think the most important thing here is that once we become married that we stop putting yourself in positions to find other people who are more compatible or more this or more that. 

doing what you can to protect your marriage by not leading yourself into temptation is the key.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

There are always temptations. Co-workers, parents of children's friends, the guy at Jiffy Lube.

There are different types of affairs. Some cheaters are following some tragic script from their childhood. Some affair down because they feel unworthy of the good spouse whom they are betraying. Some affairs are exits that fail. Some affairs come from boredom. There is an itch for some new sexual experience that they cannot resist.

Some spouses are plan B even without an affair. My mother had friend, whom I did not like, who was married to a man who came off to me as gay. They had a grown daughter so I guess they had sex, but the impression I got meeting them was that it was just a marriage of two co-dependent who shared being upper middle class and not much more.

Eventually he died of brain cancer or something and my mother realized this friend was not kind or loyal. Better to be in a marriage that recovered from infidelity than to be in a sorry alliance of two plan B persons.


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## jin (Sep 9, 2014)

*Re: Re: Plan B*



ConanHub said:


> Better than soul mates. I don't necessarily agree with that term.
> 
> We chose each other. I don't believe in stars and fates and fairy dust.
> 
> ...


Can I ask why you are here on TAM? Sounds like you have a great marriage and very blessed.


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## BrightEyes86 (Nov 1, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> The truth is, there is someone that is always just a little more compatible to much more compatible. We choose the best option available at the time. We allow ourselves to love them, and deal with any differences. Why are we all here or at another similar site? Working on issues in relationships? Trying to learn from our mistakes? Probably not soul mates. Likely there is someone you would not have to work as hard with. We choose as wisely as we are able.
> 
> By the way, I'm not picking on you. I just thought it would be interesting to explain my opinion and your post was convenient.
> 
> ETA: I've not cheated on anyone. I cheated myself out of lots of stuff, though. One of them was a better life.


I think the reason I hesitate so much to put the label "better" on other people outside the relationship is this one person my mother knows. This woman has been married 6 times (I think, maybe only 4 or 5). She's definitely a 'grass is always greener' person. Her children don't even go to her weddings anymore because they know none of these step-dads will last. They're grown now, and slightly bitter, and I don't think either of them will ever get married. But even being a remote observer myself I feel it's a dangerous road to walk. I've seen how people talk about her, and how this has hurt her kids. I don't want to be that kind of person. That's why I say that there are numerous people you're compatible with, but it doesn't make any of them necessarily better or worse. Every relationship takes time and effort and compromise. At first you might feel that with a new mate those compromises are easier, but I just feel like eventually you're going to become frustrated once the honeymoon phase wears off. It happens to the best of relationships, sometimes you get frustrated and you fight. If things are good you'll reach an agreement. If you're a 'grass is always greener' kind of person, maybe that fight is enough to make you jump ship.

Point is, every potential mate is going to take time and effort to grow into a relationship. And no matter how agreeable you two are with one another, there will be differences. No two people think exactly alike so you're never going to find a relationship where you never disagree about anything. So make the most of it instead of wondering if there's a better mate out there. Because you're right, 'soul mates' is a highly misleading phrase. You're not going to find the person who 'completes' you like they do in Disney movies and romance novels, let's be real. But you can find someone you love deeply who you want to make happy, and you will work to make that happen and hopefully your actions will be reciprocated. Once you have that, what could be better? Obviously two people can work together to be better and better together, and that does take two. So if you have a mate who is working on bettering him/herself and you're doing the same and you're always working on being good to one another, why bother thinking about whether or not another person would be better?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I agree. Mine is hindsight. I never thought about someone or something else constantly, or pined for anything. I would never have stayed, if I did. My focus was entirely on keeping what I had, at almost any cost. What a wasted life.


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## BrightEyes86 (Nov 1, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> I agree. Mine is hindsight. I never thought about someone or something else constantly, or pined for anything. I would never have stayed, if I did. My focus was entirely on keeping what I had, at almost any cost. What a wasted life.


Sounds to me like you were putting in all the effort without getting anything in return, and that's just not fun for anyone to go through. My theory is if your significant other isn't putting in any effort to make you happy, then perhaps it really is time to let go. So sorry you feel your life was wasted, but perhaps some good lessons came of it? I firmly believe there is a bright side to every situation, no matter how dim it might seem. If you came out of the situation with any amount of wisdom at all, hang onto that.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

BrightEyes86 said:


> *Sounds to me like you were putting in all the effort without getting anything in return*, and that's just not fun for anyone to go through. My theory is if your significant other isn't putting in any effort to make you happy, then perhaps it really is time to let go. So sorry you feel your life was wasted, but perhaps some good lessons came of it? I firmly believe there is a bright side to every situation, no matter how dim it might seem. If you came out of the situation with any amount of wisdom at all, hang onto that.


Thank you, but no. I didn't put in the effort I should have. I gave up, but could not leave the marriage. It was as destructive to the marriage as if I would have cheated. However, if I did cheat, at least there would have been some, let's say, "reward", to all of it. 

I'm still trying to figure out the lessons. I keep coming back to not knowing her as well as I might. I think it also has to do with my perception of what is good. I think I must have had so little, throughout my life including married life, that when I got a little bit of good, I was overwhelmed and ecstatic, rather than seeing any red flags or thinking it could be better with someone else. Don't know if that makes sense. I am working on that stuff, but i'm tired of trying.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

The thing with affairs is that in some cases its a win win situation for the WS. They get to cheat as much as they want. Even when they are caught they'll continue, sometimes laughing in the face of the BS or pretending to be sorry and going through false reconciliation. Only when it gets to the point that they could end up all alone do they try to reconcile. The BS will always state on here that the WS is remorseful but this is something you will never know. Yes, they may be genuinely upset. But it may not be because they feel bad about what they did. They very likely are upset because they don't want to be alone, so they will do anything to make sure this doesn't happen. 

When I think of what the consequences are I realised that all they are is being in a relationship. That sounds more like a reward. Transparency isn't a punishment. It just means its harder for them to cheat. Something you expect in a relationship. I bet a BS wouldn't care about being transparent. They may have to live with their BS triggering sometimes but on the other hand the BS will be trying their best to be an even better spouse. The WS just has to keep to their vows this time which is pretty much what you expected from them before you found out about the affair. So nothings changed.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

SevenYears said:


> The thing with affairs is that in some cases its a win win situation for the WS. They get to cheat as much as they want. Even when they are caught they'll continue, sometimes laughing in the face of the BS or pretending to be sorry and going through false reconciliation. Only when it gets to the point that they could end up all alone do they try to reconcile. The BS will always state on here that the WS is remorseful but this is something you will never know. Yes, they may be genuinely upset. But it may not be because they feel bad about what they did. They very likely are upset because they don't want to be alone, so they will do anything to make sure this doesn't happen.
> 
> When I think of what the consequences are I realised that all they are is being in a relationship. That sounds more like a reward. Transparency isn't a punishment. It just means its harder for them to cheat. Something you expect in a relationship. I bet a BS wouldn't care about being transparent. They may have to live with their BS triggering sometimes but on the other hand the BS will be trying their best to be an even better spouse. The WS just has to keep to their vows this time which is pretty much what you expected from them before you found out about the affair. So nothings changed.


Interesting thoughts. I don't think anyone has given this perspective before. Got me thinking, now.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

jin said:


> Can I ask why you are here on TAM? Sounds like you have a great marriage and very blessed.


I am interested in learning more about sex, I have a porn addiction and I have had to counsel couples dealing with infidelity.

I initially ran across TAM looking into female infidelity as there were very limited resources into the subject.

Many colleagues and friends were experiencing unfaithful wives and there was damn little help for them.

My marriage has not been threatened with infidelity however, and I just shared our mindset of how serious we view our marriage and what a priority we make it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. I have some personal demons to deal with, triggers and TAM helps me face some of them safely.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SevenYears said:


> The thing with affairs is that in some cases its a win win situation for the WS. They get to cheat as much as they want. Even when they are caught they'll continue, sometimes laughing in the face of the BS or pretending to be sorry and going through false reconciliation. Only when it gets to the point that they could end up all alone do they try to reconcile. The BS will always state on here that the WS is remorseful but this is something you will never know. Yes, they may be genuinely upset. But it may not be because they feel bad about what they did. They very likely are upset because they don't want to be alone, so they will do anything to make sure this doesn't happen.
> 
> When I think of what the consequences are I realised that all they are is being in a relationship. That sounds more like a reward. Transparency isn't a punishment. It just means its harder for them to cheat. Something you expect in a relationship. I bet a BS wouldn't care about being transparent. They may have to live with their BS triggering sometimes but on the other hand the BS will be trying their best to be an even better spouse. The WS just has to keep to their vows this time which is pretty much what you expected from them before you found out about the affair. So nothings changed.


In the view of relational transactions, I agree with you 100%.

There are, however, some few ex waywards that genuinely regret what they did, change who they are and seriously hate who they allowed themselves to become.

They can never make up for their betrayal but they are not looking at their infidelity as a good transaction, they forever despise that they traded their spouse and family and even part of themselves for something vile and cheap.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Openminded said:


> I wasn't Plan B because my husband didn't want a divorce and fought it for a long time when I said I was getting one. I have too much pride to ever settle for being Plan B so if he had wanted to be with the OW I would not have agreed to R on DD1.
> 
> I have an unusual story in that I was in R for 30 years until my husband cheated again with the same OW (or never really completely stopped -- I'll never know which). I divorced him after DD2 and wish I had divorced him after DD1. We live and learn. I am not pro-R although there are obviously cases where the WS really is remorseful and a better marriage is built from the ashes of the first. Those are success stories.
> 
> ...


Wow, 30 years..... Is your husband with this OW now?


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## Lamailman (Nov 2, 2014)

BrightEyes86 said:


> As far as some peoples' beliefs that soul mates are bogus and there's always someone better out there, I'm not certain that there's always someone who's _better_ per sey - just also compatible. You can be compatible in a relationship with numerous people, the rule doesn't have to be that there's only one person you'll ever meet in your life who you work with. When you think of it that way that's kind of depressing for the singles out there - how are they supposed to meet that one person and how will they know? No, really it's more like there are plenty of people out there who you'd be compatible with if given half a chance. None of them are necessarily better than any others.
> 
> For those who continuously wander from their relationships, I think they suffer from a dangerous thought pattern that those other people they meet _are_ better. The grass is always greener right? Then when they cross the fence they realize (hopefully) that the grass is just the same, nothing is really better. They're the type of people who are never satisfied with what they have and are always looking for the next best thing.


Yea I agree. I believe this is the case with my wife. She will never be happy with anyone she is with.


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