# Wife contacting ex-lover



## mark-p-l (Nov 24, 2014)

Dear all, desperate/grateful for advice. Wife has close friend, used to be "with benefits" before we met, to whom she has contact through all 20 years of our relationship. This guy in the initial 2 years refused to acknowledge my presence, froze me out, my wife acted like nothing was wrong. 2 years in, I asked her to stop seeing/contacting him. She refused. I didnt raise it again, he continued to ignore me. She knows I dont like it, and over the years I heard her confide in him, speak badly of me to him repeatedly, make fun of me repeatedly, tell him she thinks of him all the time, etc. 10 years ago, she visited him, slept in his bed and claims nothing happened, told me 2 years later. Its phone/email contact since then. Our relationship recovered from several bad years recently, but now I have raised this issue with her - I want it resolved. I asked her again to stop all contact. She refused. I asked her to define at least what the boundaries are of her relationship with him, she refused. I feel their relationship disrespects me and our marriage, she stonewalls completely on this issue. Am I being unreasonable? Is she? Help!


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mark-p-l said:


> Dear all, desperate/grateful for advice. Wife has close friend, used to be "with benefits" before we met, to whom she has contact through all 20 years of our relationship. This guy in the initial 2 years refused to acknowledge my presence, froze me out, my wife acted like nothing was wrong. 2 years in, I asked her to stop seeing/contacting him. She refused. I didnt raise it again, he continued to ignore me. She knows I dont like it, and over the years I heard her confide in him, speak badly of me to him repeatedly, make fun of me repeatedly, tell him she thinks of him all the time, etc. 10 years ago, she visited him, slept in his bed and claims nothing happened, told me 2 years later. Its phone/email contact since then. Our relationship recovered from several bad years recently, but now I have raised this issue with her - I want it resolved. I asked her again to stop all contact. She refused. I asked her to define at least what the boundaries are of her relationship with him, she refused. I feel their relationship disrespects me and our marriage, she stonewalls completely on this issue. Am I being unreasonable? Is she? Help!


OK. Sorry you are here, but glad you found us.

Let's cover the basics, OK?

You wife is a cheat. She might not think she is, but she is. Is it an emotional or a physical affair? She shared her bed with a former lover, but nothing happened?

Wrong! Something did happen, she shared the bed of a former lover. Did they have sex or not? Well, on one level, who cares? Because even if she didn't, she *still* cheated on you.

And here's something you might not have thought of... 

*You are in an abusive relationship!*

Your wife needs counselling or you need a divorce.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She is a cake eating cheater. She has been cheating on you, to varying degrees, for your whole relationship.

You, for some reason, put up with it. Do you have low self esteem?

20 years of this? You my friend, need to find your backbone and self respect and send this skank packing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Unfortunately what i am about to say is not that nice but believe me i am in your corner.

You have no one but yourself to blame for your wifes foul behavour.

You have allowed it to flourish whilst offering up no consequences of whatsoever.

Everything in what she is doing is wrong. No friends of the opposite sex period. 

Given that you have allowed both her and him to disrespect you so bad and for so long you really need to start the 180 on her ASAP.

If you work and support her stop supoorting her Financially, Emotionally, Whatever. If you have a joint bank account clear it out.

In fact visit a lawyer find out your rights make an exit plan and have her served. Let her know that you will no longer tolerate her foul behavour and being cuckholded.

Sorry you are going through this and sorry to come down quite harsh but it sounds like you need a real reality check and a bit of a spine.

Hope you can work this out to your advantage.


----------



## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

It sounds like she thinks more of this friendship "If that's all it is witch is highly unlikely" Than her marriage. I wouldn't stand for it!


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mark-p-l said:


> 10 years ago, she visited him, slept in his bed and claims nothing happened


 According to the MSNBC.com/iVillage Lust, Love & Loyalty survey, “Few cheaters — only 2 percent — were busted in the act. And even when confronted with a partner's suspicions, only 6 percent of both men and women confessed to having an affair.” In other words, the odds of you getting better evidence of her cheating than her admitting to traveling to visit him and spending the night in bed with him are slim. What you already know is as good as it gets when it comes to confirming that she is cheating with him. Since the odds are also very slim that she will every admit to her cheating, what exactly are you waiting for when it comes to making her decide between you and the other man? A married woman does not go to visit another man and sleep in his bed. This should have been a deal breaker for you. You seem to think that you need her to admit that she is cheating for you to take action. You do not.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Mark i think you are being played and i think being disrespected from both of them..he see you as a chump...and if you think for one moment she slept in his bed and nothing happen I have a bridge to see you....as reference above she is a cake eater, she has a vested interest in both of you and she will not do anything to change that unless you are willing to to shut her down completely. and when i say transparent, no contact at all, AT ALL...if not walk away...be willing to walk away with your integrity, because today you have no respect from her, from him and from yourself.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

You must insist that she cut all contact or you will file for divorce, but you have to be willing to follow through.

Of course the odds are slim that she will agree, therefore once you go that route you have to figure that your marriage is probably over.

She sounds like the type who would initially refuse then when she gets the divorce papers she'll buckle and agree to stop seeing him but she'll still contact him although she'll be deceitful about it so you're going to have to monitor her.

Which means she also must give you full transparency- access to all email accounts, social networking sites, her phone, etc.

You're probably reading this and shaking your head and thinking "she'll never go for this". which means that there is really nothing to save here.


----------



## mark-p-l (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks guys for the replies, enlightening to see how you see it. Yes I have had self esteem issues (getting better ). There was some other stuff of hers too, partying like a single woman for a year or two, falling in love with a colleague (not acting on it, apparently) and so on. Not good, but in a long marriage is this sort of stuff really so unusual? 

As regards abuse MattMatt, I think you are correct. Man if only I could share some of her verbage with you, she regularly flies off the handle, think she has a lot of trouble regulating her emotions, and/or uses verbal abuse to avoid dealing with her behaviour. All in all, yes I agree. She is abusive. And in the last few years, I havent been taking it lying down. 

I have not been perfect either. The bad years we had recently were the aftermath of two affairs I had between 7 and 4 years ago. I dont blame her for my actions, what I did was wrong, theyre over and done with, and I apologize every time she raises the topic, but I do think one of the many reasons I had those affairs was a lack of respect and love at home. We separated at the time for a few yrs, now patching it up, I am 101% committed and faithful for yrs now, and so I raise this guy with her again. Cheeky of me, given the affairs, maybe, but as much as I dont blame her for my transgressions, she shouldnt be using the affairs to justify abusing me. 

What gets me most of all - I never hear the slightest comment in the direction of understanding, acknowledgement or compassion, all I ever get is "I did nothing wrong". Which I agree is not accurate. If this attitude had come since the affairs, maybe I could understand (maybe not), but its unchanged, consistent stonewalling since 20 yrs. 

How does the above change your views?


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Do you have any children with this woman?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

To your question about long relationships. I have been with my wife for 23 years and have had nothing but devoted love from her. Arguments and sometimes fights, yes.

Disrespect and cheating, no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Great post! So tell us again, why in the hell are you still with this disrespectful, uncaring, throw-her-affair-filled-relationship in your face woman???  She's going to treat you like dirt for the rest of your "marriage." Why don't you just tell her to go and claim this other wonderful man she's so obsessed with? Might as well, she's obviously got him on her mind constantly. I've never understood why men allow themselves to be constantly humiliated this way without finally having enough and pulling the plug. :scratchhead: My heart absolutely goes out to you, brother. I wish you all the best. Hope she can finally see what she's done to you, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.


----------



## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

mark-p-l said:


> Am I being unreasonable? !


No, you're either a cuckold or you're leading us on with a horrific story.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mark-p-l said:


> Thanks guys for the replies, enlightening to see how you see it. Yes I have had self esteem issues (getting better ). There was some other stuff of hers too, partying like a single woman for a year or two, falling in love with a colleague (not acting on it, apparently) and so on. Not good, but in a long marriage is this sort of stuff really so unusual?
> 
> As regards abuse MattMatt, I think you are correct. Man if only I could share some of her verbage with you, she regularly flies off the handle, think she has a lot of trouble regulating her emotions, and/or uses verbal abuse to avoid dealing with her behaviour. All in all, yes I agree. She is abusive. And in the last few years, I havent been taking it lying down.
> 
> ...


There's clearly a gap between the two of you. Perhaps a bit of a chasm, to be honest.

Can this gap be closed? :scratchhead: Well, that's up to the both of you, really.

Have you looked at the idea of marriage guidance?

Just look up Relate in your Yellow Pages or BT 'phone book to find your nearest branch.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

You've got a problem. Do you have children? It is crucial to know this.

If you have children and if you care for them and if they are yours, you are in a much tougher situation. If you don't have children, then all your options are open. You don't need a "reason" to divorce, there is nobody to convince but you, and you can leave her with no guilt and be free to pursue more women and have "relationships" all you want.

Or if you like the treatment, you can stay with her and see how it all turns out.

But the important thing is children. Do you have any?


----------



## mr.bunbury (Oct 20, 2014)

mark-p-l said:


> Dear all, desperate/grateful for advice. Wife has close friend, used to be "with benefits" before we met, to whom she has contact through all 20 years of our relationship.


Women who have friends with benefits freak me out but in this case it had to be more than that because you don't talk for 20 years through to someone you just wanted to have sex with.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mark-p-l said:


> Am I being unreasonable?


 Yes your are being unreasonable in thinking that her sleeping with another man behind your back might not be cheating.


----------



## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

mark-p-l said:


> Thanks guys for the replies, enlightening to see how you see it. Yes I have had self esteem issues (getting better ). There was some other stuff of hers too, partying like a single woman for a year or two, falling in love with a colleague (not acting on it, apparently) and so on. Not good, but in a long marriage is this sort of stuff really so unusual?
> 
> As regards abuse MattMatt, I think you are correct. Man if only I could share some of her verbage with you, she regularly flies off the handle, think she has a lot of trouble regulating her emotions, and/or uses verbal abuse to avoid dealing with her behaviour. All in all, yes I agree. She is abusive. And in the last few years, I havent been taking it lying down.
> 
> ...


Well, gosh, those little trivial details do change the complexion of your dilemma ever so slightly.........


----------



## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

Sports Fan said:


> Unfortunately what i am about to say is not that nice but believe me i am in your corner.
> 
> You have no one but yourself to blame for your wifes foul behavour.
> 
> ...


Wowow I have to say, a close friends of mine said almost the exact same thing to me and for some reason that hurt more then finding about the affair. Only way I can explain it is that was the first time I felt like I faled as a man :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

My view has not changed at all. She is a lowlife.

You have been a lowlife but it seems you have changed.

She has been inappropriate for your entire relationship and you cheated 2x.

You both suck but you have not been a serial cheat for 20 years. You changed. She has been a skank, non stop, for 20 years.


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If you don't DUMP these TWO, the next thing you know she will be dressing you in her undergarments and tying you to a chair in the corner of THEIR bedroom with a ball in your mouth while THEY entertain you.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

hookares said:


> If you don't these TWO, the next thing you know she will be dressing you in her undergarments and tying you to a chair in the corner of THEIR bedroom with a ball in your mouth while THEY entertain you.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

mark-p-l said:


> Thanks guys for the replies, enlightening to see how you see it. Yes I have had self esteem issues (getting better ). There was some other stuff of hers too, partying like a single woman for a year or two, falling in love with a colleague (not acting on it, apparently) and so on. Not good, but in a long marriage is this sort of stuff really so unusual?
> 
> As regards abuse MattMatt, I think you are correct. Man if only I could share some of her verbage with you, she regularly flies off the handle, think she has a lot of trouble regulating her emotions, and/or uses verbal abuse to avoid dealing with her behaviour. All in all, yes I agree. She is abusive. And in the last few years, I havent been taking it lying down.
> 
> ...


Mark the above does not change my views much at all. Yes you cheated but she had a choice on whether to take you back or not. She took you back. That doesn't mean she gets to hold that over you as some sort of justification everytime she strays.

Its really very simple either she grows up and handles her issues like an Adult or she leaves. And if she refuses to either forgive you for past indiscretions she really needs to leave. She does not however get to stick around and make you feel bad. Given what you have been through with her and her 20 years of this garbage with the other bloke i dont blame you at all for having two affairs.

In all honesty but you probably should of ended things with this woman many years ago.


----------



## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> Well, gosh, those little trivial details do change the complexion of your dilemma ever so slightly.........


Yes and no. . But he dose lose his edge over the matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dkphap13 (Oct 21, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


Wow you enjoy that way too much
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I am going to say something harsh here, but it is for a reason and for your own good.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Had you not been such a pu$$y about all this from the very beginning, you wouldn't be in this situation. 

In a sense, you created this by being her personal toilet paper. 

Now that you have caved in and, essentially approved of all this you get what you get. I mean, after creating this mess and putting up with it for years you have lost 100% of her respect. It must be some marriage.

Well, time to grow a pair and leave. Just walk away. Stop being her a$$ wipe. At least she will know you cared.

What else can you do?

That's assuming this post of yours is true, of course as I cannot fathom any man allowing this and then asking if it's wrong. VERY hard to believe.


----------



## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

The beta is strong with this one...


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

hookares said:


> if you don't these two, the next thing you know she will be dressing you in her undergarments and tying you to a chair in the corner of their bedroom with a ball in your mouth while they entertain you.


bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha!!!


----------



## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

"Not good, but in a long marriage is this sort of stuff really so unusual?" It's not unusual in a bad marriage.


----------



## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

I've got next to nothing for you. Buy the book Married Man Sex Life Primer. Don't bother reading it. Put it on the shelf, maybe she will.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

hookares said:


> If you don't these TWO, the next thing you know she will be dressing you in her undergarments and tying you to a chair in the corner of THEIR bedroom with a ball in your mouth while THEY entertain you.


He mentioned in his post how this other guy was ignoring him and how his wife knows he doesn't like it. I'm just sayin.


Mark, your marriage is road kill. Clean up the mess and move on. People here gives good advise. They can't work magic.


----------



## mark-p-l (Nov 24, 2014)

Dear All, Thanks again for the feedback. No, I am not making this up, it is my life and apart from answering the kids question - we have 4 - there is not much else I can add. Without kids, I think I could be much more straightforward with her, they are ages 6 to 14 and they are my world. I guess I am hearing Selfesteem/respect/grow balls, and marriage counseling. Train wreck it is. I know my mistakes, I cant wipe them out, I can only acknowledge and apologise. I dont get this respect from her. Thanks again, really helpful to get the feedback.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Well regardless of where you have been mark ( those issues will have to be addressed through therapy) today you still have 3 people in this marriage and we all know that is not a model that will work....so either you leave or he does but you can not share your wife whether it be emotionally or physically. No matter how you do the math some one will be the old man out.....let's hope it's not you.


----------



## OhForSureMan (Nov 3, 2014)

My old man let this sort of disrespect happen to him for a long time. I was a smart kid who could sense it was bizarre at an intuitive level to have an ex hanging around so much (he also did house work for us). I didn't learn my suspicions were correct until years later and learning really put a dent in my relationship with my mother. The gut is a powerful thing.

Did not do my conception of healthy relationships any favors. She was also verbally abusive to both of us for years. Seeing him put up with that taught me the worst of all lessons.

You have kids? Then man up and prepare to file for their sake if she won't choose you.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Tell her to ditch the friend or you will file for divorce.

When she tells you to f$#@ off, go see a Lawyer and get divorced.

This marriage is toast. Stick a fork in it. You can still love your kids and be divorced.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

ButtPunch said:


> Tell her to ditch the friend or you will file for divorce.
> 
> When she tells you to f$#@ off, go see a Lawyer and get divorced.
> 
> This marriage is toast. Stick a fork in it. You can still love your kids and be divorced.


And add to this 4 DNA test kits to boot.
I'm not joking, sadly.


----------



## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

tom67 said:


> And add to this 4 DNA test kits to boot.


You're such an easy going guy that it probably wouldn’t make any difference but it would be interesting. You would really be testing the extent of your wife’s deception and not the kids. 

Buy a DNA kit at WalMart, Amazon or just about any drug store for about $30. Swab the inside of your cheek and the kid’s with a Q-tip. Send it to a lab with $130 more.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Graywolf2 said:


> You're such an easy going guy that it probably wouldn’t make any difference but it would be interesting. You would really be testing the extent of your wife’s deception and not the kids.
> 
> Buy a DNA kit at WalMart, Amazon of just about any drug store for about $30. Swab the inside of your cheek and the kid’s with a Q-tip. Send it to a lab with $130 more.


IMO I would rather find out now rather than later but that is a personal decision.
You will still be their father.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ButtPunch said:


> Tell her to ditch the friend or you will file for divorce.
> 
> When she tells you to f$#@ off, go see a Lawyer and get divorced.
> 
> This marriage is toast. Stick a fork in it. You can still love your kids and be divorced.


But who put the darned thing on the grill? *Two* affairs? :wtf:


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

the guy hates you because your wife trashes you to him. She doesn't respect you and by your repeated infidelity, you don't respect her or like her much either. Any logistics keeping you together?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mark-p-l said:


> Dear All, Thanks again for the feedback. No, I am not making this up, it is my life and apart from answering the kids question - we have 4 - there is not much else I can add. Without kids, I think I could be much more straightforward with her, they are ages 6 to 14 and they are my world. I guess I am hearing Selfesteem/respect/grow balls, and marriage counseling. Train wreck it is. I know my mistakes, I cant wipe them out, I can only acknowledge and apologise. I dont get this respect from her. Thanks again, really helpful to get the feedback.


*cough* PATERNITY TESTS!!!


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

NotLikeYou said:


> Well, gosh, those little trivial details do change the complexion of your dilemma ever so slightly.........


You think? Little detail omitted. Wish the OP luck though. Just seems like a bad relationship


----------



## cavenger (Aug 26, 2012)

Cut your losses and end it. Too much to overcome from both sides. From this day forward, live your life with pride and don't make the same mistakes again.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

tom67 said:


> And add to this 4 DNA test kits to boot.
> I'm not joking, sadly.


This definately. One may be wife's ex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mark-p-l said:


> Dear all, desperate/grateful for advice. Wife has close friend, used to be "with benefits" before we met, to whom she has contact through all 20 years of our relationship. This guy in the initial 2 years refused to acknowledge my presence, froze me out, my wife acted like nothing was wrong. 2 years in, I asked her to stop seeing/contacting him. She refused.


Should have contacted a lawyer right then and there.




> I didnt raise it again, he continued to ignore me. She knows I dont like it, and over the years I heard her confide in him, speak badly of me to him repeatedly, make fun of me repeatedly, tell him she thinks of him all the time, etc. 10 years ago, she visited him, slept in his bed and claims nothing happened


She's a liar




> told me 2 years later. Its phone/email contact since then. Our relationship recovered from several bad years recently, but now I have raised this issue with her - I want it resolved. I asked her again to stop all contact. She refused. I asked her to define at least what the boundaries are of her relationship with him, she refused.



Get rid of her. You are not being unreasonable. She is wrapping you around her finger and keeping this other man in her life so she can go visit him again, in his bed.....and not do anything with him


Contact an attorney and do not let her know you are doing it. You need to divorce her. She refuses to respect you and refuses to let go of her piece of side sausage.

You deserve better. Let the other man take her in and take care of her. Free yourself!


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

mark-p-l said:


> The bad years we had recently were the aftermath of two affairs I had between 7 and 4 years ago.


This will teach me to try to read more into the thread before responding to the first post.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Mark,
What made you two decide to get married? Never mind, that is just my nagging curiosity about why people marry when neither one is committed. Anyway, you've had two affairs and she's had ??? who knows. Advice.... 

You have a couple of options here.

Stay and do nothing and live as you have lived for 20 years. Loving your kids with all your heart and hoping they do not pick up the terrible example mom and dad are laying down (slim chance they won't).

or

Reach around your back with both hands and find your spine, manipulate it into place and stand tall and proud and tell your wife that this all stops now. Contact the OM and OMW, if there is one, and tell him you will expose far and wide and do as much damage as possible if he does not stay away from your wife. Tell him if he does not back off and persists that he can have her lock, stock and barrel. Then contact an attorney and prepare for divorce both mentally and financially. During all of this be the rock to your kids and show them what respectability, honor and love are. Then find someone whom you care about and are willing to forgo all others for and have a real relationship.


Look Mark, respect is earned and you've not earned any from your wife or the OM. If you are really okay with life as it is then take option 1 and deal with it. If not, then you really do not have much choice than to go with 2. I regret your situation but at this point there is only one who can fix it, you. During the course of option 2 your wife may actually come to see a different man than the one she currently uses to wipe her feet. Don't count on it but it is a possibility. Good luck.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And Mark? No matter what your wife does, or doesn't do, you must do the right thing, OK?

By that I mean: No third affair.


----------



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

So, here's the deal.

You've asked her to give up her "FWB" partner from her past and she refused. She went out to spend time with him a ONLY slept in his bed, but nothing happened. Yeah...right. Dude, she had sex with this guy. She cheated on you and lied about it. She gets mad if you bring their relationship up, she talks bad about you over the phone, they have a laugh at your expense. And she STILL won't give him up after repeated attempts by you to get her to stop.

That tells me that she puts more of a value on him more than you. She puts more of a value on him over your family. And she's fine with that and not concerned. Because, she knows you and she knows that you have low self esteem. Therefore, she knows you're not going to do anything because she exploits your feelings of low self esteem and self worth.

Personally, I tell her to give up the OM and if she refuses, then hand her divorce papers. Her jaw will hit the floor. She may call your bluff and agree to the divorce (which is fine, because you don't need to be living this way). But, I think that reality is going to hit her square in the face. Even if she gets you with child support, life is going to be tough without you. And she might think that her "FWB" is going to ride in and be her White Knight. But, the fact is, he'll probably dump her.

I mean, come on! He couldn't even commit to a real relationship with her and would only commit to Friends with Benefits with her. Do you honestly think he wants to waltz into a ready made family with four kids?!?!?! No way! That's not what he signed up for! 

Then start doing the 180 on her and go from there.


----------



## mark-p-l (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks all for the feedback, its been really really helpful. Quick update of where I am: 

I hear those of you saying give her the divorce papers sooner rather than later. I hear those of you saying its a train wreck of a marriage, I agree, it is. But with the kids, rightly or wrongly, I feel a big responsibility to work to make this train wreck of a marriage healthy and get it back on track. Huge uphill battle, I know, somewhat unlikely to make it, maybe. But now I believe I am willing to let it fail if she doesnt work with me on this and if we dont start making some serious progress. 

So spoke with wife, raising the issue again. Asked her to stop, asked for clarification of what she considers acceptable if the answer is no. Got all the usual diversionary tactics and accusations etc etc. This time however, I stood my ground. Didnt back off, didnt allow her to change the topic. Got accused of being sick, deluded, etc etc. Think it stressed her (good), she got mixed up in her own lies, and all the while, I stood my ground. Think I found some spine.

I gotta say, I feel good - for the first time in 18 yrs I stood my ground on this issue, and took no crap. Stayed respectful, stayed on course. Whatever about her, I feel I am being assertive for the first time on this issue, and she doesnt like it one bit - good. She better get used to it, I plan to keep this up. 

So apart from lying to me yesterday about the last time she saw him, apart from hurling abuse at me and for the first time her being the one to walk away from me (her usual tactic is verbal abuse and rage until I walk away, didnt work this time), apart from her making clear that she will not stop the contact with him, there were two positives, one small, one a bit bigger: 

- she hinted that she might not see him again without at least inviting me to come along....which is more than I have ever heard from her on this, but still way off anything acceptable for me. Kinda unlikely I'll subject myself to seeing this guy, dont really need that kind of stress in my life. 
- she agreed to go to marriage counseling on this issue. Big win as far as I am concerned. Without this, I dont think we'd have any chance at all.

Shes as evasive and untruthful as ever, but I feel so good about where I am headed with this, and I thank every one of you for taking the time to give me feedback, great community here.

We probably wont get to counseling much before mid January, so that might be my next update....


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Mark,
Very good. You stood your ground and already you saw slight but perceptible change. Keep up the good work my friend and remain strong.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

mark-p-l said:


> Thanks all for the feedback, its been really really helpful. Quick update of where I am:
> 
> I hear those of you saying give her the divorce papers sooner rather than later. I hear those of you saying its a train wreck of a marriage, I agree, it is. But with the kids, rightly or wrongly, I feel a big responsibility to work to make this train wreck of a marriage healthy and get it back on track. Huge uphill battle, I know, somewhat unlikely to make it, maybe. But now I believe I am willing to let it fail if she doesnt work with me on this and if we dont start making some serious progress.
> 
> ...



I will advise you that if only one person works at a marriage,, it is not still a marriage as it takes another participant to make it work. Keep a certain level of detachment as it is her habit to cheat. Seek help for yourself and find out how to deal with your own issues. Everyone is responsible for their issues, and you can't control someone else to fix theirs.

Don't stay in a unhealthy marriage for the kid's sake, as that could have a detrimental affect on them. Teach them that sometimes you have to draw a line somewhere. Remember you are a role model for your children, and they learn and get hard wired by the environment around them. You would not want your children to be miserable and tough it out that way for the rest of their life. Show them what strength is, integrity is, by not allowing someone to disregard your boundaries. Show them that there are consequences to any action. It may teach them to leave an unhealthy relationship before it gets that way. Teach them communication , and acknowledge their feelings.

As for your wife, chances of people of changing drastically is slim. She has years of this type of behavior, and it will not stop overnight. It would take years for her to deal with her issues, and she might stay the way she is. Most change for a short period, and quit putting the effort into sustaining it.

Also, work on yourself, and figure out why did you cheat too. You did something abhorrent that you found distasteful from your wife. Grow and learn, and if you do end up divorcing, you will be a healthy individual if you seek another relationship.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

mark-p-l said:


> Thanks all for the feedback, its been really really helpful. Quick update of where I am:
> 
> I hear those of you saying give her the divorce papers sooner rather than later. I hear those of you saying its a train wreck of a marriage, I agree, it is. But with the kids, rightly or wrongly, I feel a big responsibility to work to make this train wreck of a marriage healthy and get it back on track. Huge uphill battle, I know, somewhat unlikely to make it, maybe. But now I believe I am willing to let it fail if she doesnt work with me on this and if we dont start making some serious progress.
> 
> ...


This is an improvement.
Are you reading No More Mr. Nice Guy? It would likely help you find your voice and strengthen your spine.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

mark-p-l said:


> So apart from lying to me yesterday about the last time she saw him, apart from hurling abuse at me and for the first time her being the one to walk away from me (her usual tactic is verbal abuse and rage until I walk away, didnt work this time), apart from her making clear that she will not stop the contact with him
> 
> she hinted that she might not see him again without at least inviting me to come along
> 
> Shes as evasive and untruthful as ever


I admire your ability to see the positive in all of this.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

mark-p-l said:


> she hinted that she might not see him again without at least inviting me to come along....which is more than I have ever heard from her on this, but still way off anything acceptable for me. Kinda unlikely I'll subject myself to seeing this guy, dont really need that kind of stress in my life.


Eh... this is nothing more than a diversionary tactic. She's just throwing you a bone.

Giggity.



mark-p-l said:


> she agreed to go to marriage counseling on this issue. Big win as far as I am concerned. Without this, I dont think we'd have any chance at all.
> 
> Shes as evasive and untruthful as ever, but I feel so good about where I am headed with this, and I thank every one of you for taking the time to give me feedback, great community here.
> 
> We probably wont get to counseling much before mid January, so that might be my next update....


Again, this is just another diversion/delay tactic.

Have you ordered paternity tests for the kids yet? You'll notice that I didn't say _your_ kids.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mark-p-l said:


> So apart from lying to me yesterday about the last time she saw him, apart from hurling abuse at me and for the first time her being the one to walk away from me (her usual tactic is verbal abuse and rage until I walk away, didnt work this time), apart from her making clear that she will not stop the contact with him, there were two positives, one small, one a bit bigger


 She is a lying, verbally abusive, cheat that is still in your face about seeing the other man that she admits to having slept with. Your positives are immaterial by comparison. As most on this board will tell you, seeing a marriage counselor while the cheater is still seeing their affair partner is pointless. Her maybe letting you go with her the next time that she sees him would be humiliating, since they would either belittle you behind your back for going even though you know what is really going on between them, or they would be laughing at you as a clueless fool. In any case, they two of them would be the couple and you would be the third wheel that is the object of their ridicule.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

TRy said:


> Her maybe letting you go with her the next time that she sees him would be humiliating


Humiliation would be just the beginning. I had a somewhat similar experience which was not only humiliating but left a very deep permanent scar on my psyche.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm amazed at some of the stuff I read on this forum. So if I read this correctly, there is a good chance that the OP's wife is having a 16 YEAR AFFAIR with an ex BF????

Are there people out there who really don't know how to put their foot down when it comes to boundaries and who will tolerate ex lovers hanging around the marriage???


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm amazed at some of the stuff I read on this forum. So if I read this correctly, there is a good chance that the OP's wife is having a 16 YEAR AFFAIR with an ex BF????
> 
> Are there people out there who really don't know how to put their foot down when it comes to boundaries and who will tolerate ex lovers hanging around the marriage???


No there aren't people out there who don't know how to put their feed down when it comes to boundaries and who will tolerate ex lovers hanging around the marriage.

You aren't really reading this thread it's all in your mind.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Mark:

I thinik divorce is the answer. 2 kids, 5 kids, 7.....doesn't matter. I will say though that, given that she 'went first' in terms of her affair with her guy (in terms of nothing physical happening between them, simply call her a liar and dismiss that issue) I DO NOT consider your two affairs to be just as wrong. in fact I think it is wroing to be sexually faithful to someone who is sexually unfaithful to you.

if divorce cannot be the immediate solution then I'd say give her this ultimatum - either it is over with her guy - completely over - or you will consider you're in an open marriage and act accordingly.


----------

