# My marriage feels like a constant power struggle



## LB (May 16, 2013)

My hubby and me have been together since High School (15 years now), married for 5. We have 2 amazing daughters (10 and 4) and we love each other madly .... sounds like a fairytale .... but currently its anything but and I just don't get why. When 2 people love each other as much as we do shouldn't it just be easier?? 

We are constantly arguing or fighting, every time we try and have a conversation about our relationsip it turns into a fight. And if he is feeling unhappy because I've been a bit hard on him and then I relent its like a switch has been flicked and the roles reversed and then he treats me terribly.

I know I haven't given alot of details and there is alot to write but thought maybe I could start here and add a bit later. Please really need some help on how to best go about sorting out our current issues.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

What are you angry about in the marriage?


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

We may need some more details in order to get a better understanding of whats going on. What do you are argue about?


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

I guess I am angry at the way he treats me at times and that he makes alot of time to do the things he wants without considering me on those plans. I spend alot of my time focused on our 2 children not to say he doesn't do anything for them because he is a good dad and does all the cooking in our house and does help alot with the kids, its just that at times he doesn't even consider me or them when he makes plans for himself. He still goes out a fair amount with his guy friends her are currently mostly single (at least twice a week) and comes home somewhere between 3 to 5am in the morning. Also guys will just randomly arrive at our house for drinks and will never leave, I eventually go off to bed to watch TV or to sleep. We are actually total opposites but this has always kept our relationship interesting and exciting.

From his side I think he is also angry and upset, I often feel like he resents me (and sometimes the kids) for not having everything he wanted in life or his life not going to plan. I am not entirely sympathetic and tell him to stop acting like a child (as we have 2 already) and that life is tough and he isn't the centre of the universe (but it upsets me to think that he feels this way). One of the other big fights we have is about sex, when I am unhappy and cross I don't want to have sex, he wants to have sex at any time (regardless of how he feels) as this is actually what makes him feel loved. I understand this and have gained insight into the differences between how we both perceive being loved through the book "Five Languages of Love". Our relationship has always been a bit of a rollercoaster ride but he keeps me young and I keep him balanced and we work ... except of late when it has all got a bit much for me. I suppose maybe I am alot to blame as I am fed up with having to always be the "optomist make a plan everything will be okay one" and tired of him being so grumpy all the time. 

Yesterday I read a very insightful post by someone thats relationshihp seems to mirror ours in alot of ways and it was nice to read things from the other side for change and I realised that he is also hurting just as much as I am (I knew he was but think I didn't care to much until yesterday) anyway I wrote him a message saying I was sorry for being so grumpy and a bit of a ***** and that I would try harder. His respose "Thanks, why have you been" so I replied "I don't know Tired, stressed, miserable , feeling unheard, feeling unloved, feeling unappreciated, unhappy (probably the same way you feel) negative cycle I guess ... " and his reply "finally, so you do understand how I feel" so I replied "Yes I do but it doesn't change how I feel, like I said I will try harder" ... his response "ditto" Anyway when I got home last night we were supposed to be going out for dinner with mine and his family (no kids as they stayed with my sister for the evening). I got home before him and when he got home he came in (I was trying to decide what to wear as I was having a wardrobe malfunction) and said want to have sex ... so I said ummm there's not enough time (everyone was arriving to go out for dinner in around 40min) and I still needed to find something to wear .. then I felt bad so I said "okay but help me quickly find something to wear" ... he stomped off and went to watch TV in the lounge ... I took the whole 40min to find something to wear and everyone arrived early. I thought we then had a nice dinner and I was trying my best to be nice and friendly and happy. Dropped parents off and then went to fetch kids, he fought with me the whole way to pick-up the kids and back again. When we got home we both both ready for bed, he got into bed and switched TV on. I got in and snuggled with him (still being very pleasant) wanted to have sex but seemed to be unnatural and bit forced so left it and fell asleep. His comment this morning as I'm walking out the door to work "I thought you were going to try harder" basically his whole issue was that me trying harder should be having sex!!!! So now I am very madewith this morning but still trying to work on things so messaged him while driving work to try and explain that that was hurtful and how can you associate the two things with such a direct link and also how I felt like it feels forced when we fighting etc. and he said "sex is very important to him and if don't get that after 15 years then I should let him know where he stands because I obviously don't get him at all" and "As long as you are happy and doing the things that you want to make you happy then everything is okay" and then just add to it he wrote "clearly you getting it somewhere else and not at home"!!! So thats when I tried to explain that sex should be a natural progression and not forced and I don't want it ever to feel any differntly etc. and then got into a further argument about that. Don't get me wrong we have a very good and I think fairly full sex life but this is another issue all together according to dear hubby enough is never enough so how ever many times per week we might have sex ... that is not enough. I did also throw in there that is all works on a percentage of available opportunities and the less time he is at home the less opportunities there are.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Marriage counseling sounds like a good thing for the both of you. There are a lot of things that I can see in my own marriage that are akin to what you're dealing with. It's good that you read 5 Languages of Love, but did he? It seems that you have a lot of insight and that he's shooting from the hip...something not uncommon. 

Sex seems to be in a bunch of sentences you wrote. It seems that you each have your desires yet you're misfiring on meeting in the middle to meet them.

In your second paragraph you wrote "From his side I think he is also angry and upset, I often feel like he resents me..." The reason I picked up on that is that, while you might be 100% correct, you said "I think" which says you haven't asked. And that's important. To ask. To communicate.

You've been together since high school. That's cool. My first wife and I were the same. However, the big thing that's happening in your relationship happened in mine - we never left the high school mentality. We were always trying to figure out what the other was thinking or doing instead of just talking about it. Yeah, it seems easy to say - yet it is something that is a MUST to have a good and complete marriage.

I thought my current wife and I had fairly good communication. I thought. I was wrong. Only after discovering her affair and realizing where our communication lacked is when we truly started to communicate. Now, neither of us feel any topic is taboo. We talk about anything and everything. Even the tough stuff about sex, finances and household duties WITHOUT getting pissed!

You and your husband need to get to a point of trust in each other where you can openly and honestly communicate. I truly feel a good marriage counselor will be able to help you greatly within a month or two.


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

Hi Thanks for reply. Funnily as I have been the one that has been totally not present at the moment (lost in my own thoughts and life) and he obviously felt like we weren't conneciton (we aren't) he spoke to me about the book (didn't know i have ready it) and said he wanted to get it. I got the copy my parents have (they bought it for me and all my sisters to read, 4 girls). He hasn't looked at it. 

I know about the resentment as he has acutally said the words "you ruined my life" and it comes up in alot of subjects in different ways where I can feel thats where he's coming from. He says he doesn't but brings still bring it up.

I am not a big talker, especially why my hubby as he is much bigger and louder than me and totally dominates any conversation. I am however a very good typer and prefer written coummunication as I feel like I can actually get my point across without being interupted. I used to write him 4 page letters when we were younger. Now we Whatsapp or skype during work hours (best time to talk as no kids around). He is at a disadvantage when we communicate this way though as he is a talker (shouter actually, bark is worse than his bite and all) 

I get what you saying about the high school phase and not being able to get out of it as this is exactly how I feel, I have grown up, matured, grown as a person both personally and professionally but I feel like he is still stuck in high school at times. He actually uses this as an excuse for his partying, he will say that he was always this was and I knew what he was like when I married him, and that he hasn't changed and I'm the one that has changed (duh). But in some ways he has changed, when we were in high school I was attracted to the older "feeling" about him, he always seemed about 5 years older than his peers, dressed differently, partied with an older crowd and he didn't drink when I met him, he had come out of a very hectic partying stage. He actually used to come and visit me at home (I am 2 years younger) and then still go out with his friends afterwards or drive from where they were out, visit with me and then go back after he was done visiting. Around 10 years ago when we moved back to South Africa he began drinking again (I often tell him his drinking is alot of the problem) so in this way he has changed ... for the worse ... 
Career wise I have worked really hard, trying to balance family and work, and have really progressed in my career by leaps and bounds where he feels stagnated and unable to break out of his current job (and again I feel he is resentful and angry at me for this) even though finacially it means we are equal contributing parters which should make things easier for me. But always my family comes first. I know here I am to blame and I know that I often put the kids before him which is wrong but I do feel we are the adult and we brought them into this world and we are responsible for them as parents before worrying about our every day battles.

Here you have unearthed another aspect to our arguments which I didn't want to bring up right from the start but it is definately ba big factor ... a very very long time ago when we had only been dating for about a year (I was probably 19 years old) hubby finished studying and moved to England, I was left behind with no way of knowing how I would be able to follow him, we didn't break it off and we maintained a long distance relationship while he did everything in his power to get me over to England. During this time I started spending time with a different group of his friends and cheated on him, this happened with only 1 person ever and probably maximum 3 times during this period. Hubby probably sensed me distancing myself from and proposed ... I didn't see the guy again, and shortly managed to move over to England to join him (we didn't see each other for 8months). I didn't tell him about cheating and a year or so later he visited home and hear rumours, when he got back to England he confronted me and I told him the truth, but only half the truth, I didn't go into the extent of what had happened (if I'm making myself clear) and I thought he got over it. Alot of other stuff happned in over the next year or 2 but that is another story. And then I found out I was pregnant (which is also another story) ... I moved back to South Africa, he followed after our first daughter was born, around 4 years later he proposed (we were in a really good place). I'm not sure why but he went and sought out this guy that I had cheated with and threatened him into telling him the entire truth about what happened (not sure what was said in the end) I guess hubby wanted to know everything before we got married, he came to me and I admitted the full truth to him. He said if he had know he would not have wanted to get married but now its too late etc. we fought and in the end resolved things (I thought). Had a wonderful wedding and were seeming happy for the years to come ... but ... every argument we have he still brings this up ... party because I don't think he has alot of ammunition to fight with as I am pretty much a model wife (kidding). Anyway for some reason a few weeks ago he refused to talk to me for an entire 4 days, I was really upset as I planned a kids free weekend and was really excited about it, I was so dissapointed. Eventually he mentioned he had again hear more stories about the same incident. I gave him an ultimatium and said I would not be treated this way anymore and if he could not deal with it and forgive then I think he should take some time and decide if our marriage is still what he wants. I was very serious about it and actually really did want him to, as he does with most arguments, he just let it slide and then pretended like nothing was wrong .....

We have been for consuling with our family church minsted after our 2nd daughter as born as we were also arguing all the time, money was tight too which was making us both very stressed and during our consuling we discussed my cheating ... and our minister also tried to make him understand that he couldn't keep punishing me for something that happened 11 years ago. Oh another important fact is that he has only had sex with me and I have only had sex with him other than this other person.

I am just so tired of the constant fighting and just want us both to be happy ... at times I feel like his negative attitude and grumpiness is sucking the sould out of me (wrong I know) but thats how I feel ... I feel broken


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm usually pretty good at sniffing out details. Just a knack I've got. Yeah, you cheated on him and that's pretty sh-tty, but if he chose to take you back then you BOTH need to work on the relationship. Yeah, you cheated on him, but that doesn't give him carte blanche to treat you like a muck bucket and bully you.

Your minister is spot on...he can't keep punishing you for your transgressions if he agrees to stay with you. He needs to get over himself. AND you hit the nail on the head regarding his lack of sexual experiences. He has an ego as we all have, and his got hurt and he's never healed himself. It's vital for anyone who deals with infidelity that they heal themselves FIRST before they can attempt to heal the relationship. Otherwise, it just gets rugswept and comes out in the manner in which you see now. Anger, rage and the "big dog bark".

I think it's vital that you open up to him in a letter. As you said, it allows you to get ALL of your thoughts out there without fear of his lashing out and interrupting you. Let him know you want to be with him (you do don't you?). Let him know how important he is to you (he is important to you, right?). Let him know that you want him to get help for himself because...well...you love him (you do don't you?).


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

I do love him and do want to be with him! Otherwise I wouldn't have put so much work into our relationship and marriage for the last 15 years because we have had alot more big challenges (all the other stories for another time) which I have not mentioned yet ... Our minster who did our pre-marriage preperation councelling said at the time he was so happy we came to see him as we have given him new hope in "love" because we have gotten through so many big obsticles together and still love each other so much 

Thanks for the advice, think I will begin work on a very long (possibly 4 page) letter over the weekend to explain exactly how I feel about him and me and our relationship right now.

Will post back with future developments ...


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Good luck LinziB


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Wow, there's a lot of ground to cover here. I hope I catch you before you start your long letter, though. Before you write it, let me ask you - how does he usually respond to these letters? I've always felt like you do... I write instead of trying to talk, and especially with certain people. To me, it feels like there's no interruption and I can get my side out. To the people I've tried doing this with, they often feel resentful and angry instead. 

I've spent time trying to figure out why it gets this reaction. It seems they feel put on the spot and don't have a chance to really respond. It "forces" them to listen to everything instead of defending themselves, so they go on guard and don't really pay close attention anyway. Plus, there's no tone-of-voice or other clues that help them figure out exactly what's being said. 

So if you use a letter, I'd encourage you to stick to no more than 1 1/2 pages - very short and concise. This will force you to stick to what you want to see change and get rid of explanations and unnecessary details. 

It sounds like you and your husband both feel as if you don't have enough influence on each other. If you felt like he was influenced by your thoughts and feelings more, you'd have less reason to argue. The same is true for him. 

I can understand why he felt resentful with the whole sexual thing you described before. Seriously, you took 40 minutes to choose clothes? You brushed him off so you could dawdle on picking out an outfit. I'd be absolutely furious with anyone who did that to me! I'd encourage you to tell him from now on, you'll have sex any and every time he wants to (you can place a limitation like "as long as you haven't been drinking if it's important), but you get to decide what happens if he approaches you, and he can decide when you approach him. Then if you feel rushed, you can say, "Just a quickie, ok?" and you both got what you wanted. 

It is unfair of him to hold up your affair after all this time, since he knew and chose to stay together. What I'm getting from that is that he felt a major blow to his self-esteem from that and has never recovered. This is *his* problem to work out, though. What you can do with this information is recognize that when he brings it up, what he is really saying is, "I feel inadequate." Respond to that. You can say something like, "It seems you're feeling overwhelmed right now" and just let him keep talking. Don't argue, don't respond...just let him vent. Keep asking, "what else?" until he has exhausted what's on his mind. Then say, "So out of all that, what's the one thing you want to address today?" Give yourself half an hour to discuss it, and then say, "Now that we've made some progress on that, I'd like to go back to my issue. We've spent about half an hour. Let's take ten more minutes." 

My last suggestion: Talk less. Use actions more. If he drinks too much, don't argue about it. Just refuse to accommodate whatever his drinking has led to. He got home late and doesn't have his key? Don't answer the door for him. He missed family obligations? Go without him. I'd encourage you to find an Al-Anon group for ongoing support with this.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Being out partying without you twice a week or more til 3 or 5am, is WAY out of line. Its time he grew up. I think step one to you guys getting things worked out, is that this behavior STOPS. He is out partying like a frat boy, he needs to be HOME with his wife and child. If he isnt there, you will never be able to get this smoothed out.


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

A quick update, it's been a hectic week. I decided to take a bit of everyone's advise and behave positively and hopefully receive postitive feedback from hubby. 

So hubby stayed home with me and the kids on Friday night and we got take-aways while we babysitted my sisters 2 kids ... so I obiliged with sex on Friday night and Saturday morning. :smthumbup: obviously Saturday he was really sweet and drove around getting all the stuff we needed for our Eldest daughters 10th birthday party (with our 4yr old in tow), while I took the Eldest to have her ears pierced and out for Wimpy Breakfast as we don't really get to spend any QT together. 

Anyway we both got home and sorted things out for party (she had asked him to make pizza for her and her 15 friends), party was going really well and hubby (after finishing cooking) was enjoying a bit much. We had invited a couple who are good friends of ours to join for pizza as their 2 boys were also invited to the party. The guy friend and hubby must have drank way to much wine (probably not too appropriate for a kids birthday party!) so his wife took him home and then came back for her kids a bit later. 

Hubby obviously felt like he had the upper hand again and decided he was going out (as much I said NO you are not!!) ... and proceeded to do so as soon as the last boy left (around 10:30pm) ... leaving me with 15 girls to get ready for bed and to sleep (all the girls were sleeping over)! I was furious as I had forbade him to go and he went anyway!!! ... And thats not the worst he told the girls to wait up for him so they could let him in if the door was locked!!!! So no-one went to sleep (no matter how many times I went in to othe lounger to yell at them) till he got home close to 2am!!! Needless to say there were some very grumpy girls (incl. me) in the house the next morning. 

And then in hubby's true style he got up very early (guilty) and started preparing breakfast for the kids (french toast). I was so mad I just got showered and dressed and left him to sort cook. Once I was done, because I have decided to try and not fight with him and try the positive approach I just ignored the fact that he had done what he did and helped give the kids their breakfast and get all their stuff ready and packed for partents to pick them up etc. He later apologised for his behaviour, I again explained (for the 100th time) no use apologising and then doing it again next weekend. 

Sunday was good we just tidied up and then had a lazy braai (barbeque) with just us and the kids ... until we realised our eldest child and lice :scratchhead: (has been a problem at school recently!) ... then as only couples that have been together for a long time can do ... our issues disregarded we ralied and did what needed to be done ... quick chemist trip and lice treatment and hair combing out for more than 4hrs for both girls, and repeat - obviously NO SEX as both us where exhausted (though hubby probably still wouldn't have minded)

Monday night pretty much the same ... dealing with our crisis (school sent little one home saying her hair was not clean yet). Repeat treatments again ... another chemical ... re-comb and rince another 3 hours later (after work remember as we both work full time). 

I took Tuesday off as treated hair again twice  kept both kids at hom, so little one wouldn't be sent home again and eldest would be allowed on her Grade 4 camp on Thursday. We had friends over for dinner (who are moving back to Belgium) After a day at home and some good company, I felt better and obliged with sex on Tuesday night. Hubby happy again ... :smthumbup:

Wednesday we had my sister and her man and kids over for leftovers. I packed for eldest for camp ... and was so tired after everyone left I just fell asleep when we got into bed, although hubby hinted at wanting sex again ... 

Anyway today its Thursday and we are having supper at his dads house tonight. Already I can see the weekend might go pearshaped ... hubby is already suggesting changing what was supposed to be a braai (barbeque) with me and kids at friends of ours house to a guys only evening ... and saying he thinks he might go to the race track with the guys on Sunday morning even though we have a birthday brunch at 11am! So I'm sure he's going to come home late on Friday night and I'm sure he's going to be late on Sunday and we going to be late for the Birthday. At least I am having my hair done on Saturday morning and he's having the kids ... one thing to look forward to  ... oh and its payday tomorrow.

He still hasn't opened the book he asked me to get for him ... 

Sex count for the week (Friday to Friday) ... 3 ... possibly 4 ... we will see ...


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> I can understand why he felt resentful with the whole sexual thing you described before. Seriously, you took 40 minutes to choose clothes? You brushed him off so you could dawdle on picking out an outfit. I'd be absolutely furious with anyone who did that to me! I'd encourage you to tell him from now on, you'll have sex any and every time he wants to (you can place a limitation like "as long as you haven't been drinking if it's important), but you get to decide what happens if he approaches you, and he can decide when you approach him. Then if you feel rushed, you can say, "Just a quickie, ok?" and you both got what you wanted.
> 
> It is unfair of him to hold up your affair after all this time, since he knew and chose to stay together. What I'm getting from that is that he felt a major blow to his self-esteem from that and has never recovered. This is *his* problem to work out, though. What you can do with this information is recognize that when he brings it up, what he is really saying is, "I feel inadequate." Respond to that. You can say something like, "It seems you're feeling overwhelmed right now" and just let him keep talking. Don't argue, don't respond...just let him vent. Keep asking, "what else?" until he has exhausted what's on his mind. Then say, "So out of all that, what's the one thing you want to address today?" Give yourself half an hour to discuss it, and then say, "Now that we've made some progress on that, I'd like to go back to my issue. We've spent about half an hour. Let's take ten more minutes."
> 
> My last suggestion: Talk less. Use actions more. If he drinks too much, don't argue about it. Just refuse to accommodate whatever his drinking has led to. He got home late and doesn't have his key? Don't answer the door for him. He missed family obligations? Go without him. I'd encourage you to find an Al-Anon group for ongoing support with this.


Oh and a quick response to the above ... no I did not take 40 minutes to choose clothes, I took 40 minute to choose clothes, shower, do hair and make-up (I normally get givev around 10min to do this by hubby) on that specific day I was struggling a bit to find something to wear that I thought looked nice .. you might say I was having a fat day AND I was trying to wear something nice so that we could have a nice evening out together.

If I said ... you seemed "overwhelmed right now" and "whats the one thing you'd like to address today" hubby would say "are you on something"

And lastly he is not an alcaholic (used to act the same way when he didn't drink for 7 years, but with slightly more consideration). He just enjoys socialising and always having other people around. Problem is if someone else is drinking he often drinks too much with friends .. never drinks at home alone or even with me, maybe a glass of wine once in a blue moon with dinner ... only when out with friends or if we have friends over. Also he recently lost 18kg's so I think he has not realised that his limit has changed ALOT :iagree:


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

And so the weekend starts ... DH informed me this morning that he is going to this guy friend for a barbeque tonight, I freaked out and yelled a bit saying I had told him the idea was ridiculous and why not just re-schedule if his wife can't make it for that night ... DH said I didn't say that ... I said yes I did ... and if you didn't hear it then you're hearing me now! And I left it. 

This morning he phones me at work to say why don't I go out with his guy friends wife (she's having a ladies night). I was furious, not only is he not considering me when making plans ... love how he is now trying to organise my life so I don't get cross with them that he has changed our original plans!  ... I told him so and then he said "I'm busy and can't talk about this now and put the phone down" ... as soon as DH doesn't like something I have to say he avoids the conversation even puts the phone down on me ... sometimes more than once a day 

Think I may be blogging to myself here but it feels good to vent!


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

Yes so this is definately becoming a blog, since no-one is responding ... oh well it's nice to write down how I feel, makes me feel slightly more balanced!

So when I got home from work on Friday one of DH's guy buddies was already at our house having a drink ... shortly thereafter they decided it was time to leave to their guys only barbeque (regardless that I had told him no less than 4 times that I didn't want him going) ... ened up having a major shouting match in front of his friend, who walked out ... DH then walked out as well ... forgot to even say goodbye to the kids.

Kids came in looking for him and I had to explain he had gone out for the evening. Made supper, had coffee with my parents then caught up on some series. Kids not too bothered as they used to DH being out.

Come Saturday I was having my hair done while DH taking kids to eldest daughters hockey match. Spent morning at Salon, stopped in at home for some lunch (DH got kids Mac Donalds) and then decided I was still not okay with DH's behaviour the night before so go in car and went shopping for the whole afternoon (left him with the kids). ... by Sat evening I was in a slightly better mood so just stayed home and watched some TV with DH and the kids. 

Sunday mood slightly more improved = sex. Had a bit of a lie in and then dropped kids off with friends as we were going out for the day for another friends birthday .... champagne/nougat tasting and then lunch at a little italian spot in the wineyards ... Good Day  

Sunday night ... good day = sex. Could be that I a may be trying to train DH like you would a dog ... good behaviour = treat ... but maybe it will work as I have given up all other hope ... 

So last week's count = 3 
This week so far = 2


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

First off, yes, he is an alcoholic. Even though he acted the same way when he didn't drink for 7 years, he was what is called a "dry drunk." As a former drug and alcohol counselor, I am very familiar with the exact kinds of scenarios you describe. 

Your behavior is also very codependent. You "forbid" a full grown man from going where he wants, and he does it anyway, and you stick around. Of course he doesn't take you seriously... the worst you'll do is gripe about it, because you've always tolerated it. Fact is, when you say you "love each other madly," it's more like being addicted to each other than loving each other. Loving actions aren't like this.

The problem started back where you feel a need to control what he does, and he's not accepting your influence when he makes his choices. You "reward" him for good behavior - another control issue that's common in alcoholic dynamics. 

Your children are being influenced by this. Their idea of what a "normal" family and "normal" relationship looks like is one where people ignore and neglect others' needs. 

I hope you'll give yourself a chance to check out at least 4 Al-Anon meetings. You will feel like you've found a second family and learn what you can do to stop these things from building anger and resentment in your relationship with him and with your children as they get older.


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

KathyBatesel I think your post is very unhelpful and quite frankly I think you, as a previous drug and alcohol counselor, are transferring your thoughts and feelings from previous expereinces onto my relationship, which quite frankly are not there ... Actually I might even say that you could be a recovering alcoholic or drug abuser yourself. 

No he is not an alcoholic, although from time to time I do say he does have a problem with alcohol. 

Secondly you know nothing of me and my personality and the dynamic of our relationship. I have been raised a very strong and independent person. And am just that, I have a great career and DH and myself are 50/50 contributors in everything. Yes maybe I do put up with alot more Sh1t than most people but that is because I am confident enough in myself as a person to be able to do just that ... and if I really wanted to leave or him to leave I would do just that. And codependent ... if anything I put DH's needs right on the bottom of my list, after my children and mine so I'm not sure how you can possibly use this word. Yes maybe he does not listen to me but as you said he is a grown man after all ... and I don't listen to him either ... 

Thirdly my children are VERY happy well adjusted children and if you had ever met them or knew anything about them you would realise this. They are also very independent and do not NEED both their parents around 24/7, they are both sensitive and empathatic and very caring towards each other and the rest of the family ... so they most definately do not feel that neglecting each other's needs is normal behaviour.

And lastly I will not be "checking-out" any Al-Anon meetings anytime soon. .... Maybe TAM is not the forum for me after all!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Your husband has zero respect for you. 

I'm not sure what you really want to hear? Your husband treats you like crap and you let him over and over. You better believe this does effect your children. You don't realize the negative impact until it's too late and their grown. Did your husband drive after drinking all that wine when he went out? Take a good look at how much he drinks in a week or the weekend. I find it odd he left you drunk with 15 girls and didn't return until 2am. How often does he go out? On the weekends, during the week, 1-2 times a month? 

My ex h would leave like that, on a whim. He was cheating on me. Keep your eyes open. You deserve to be treated much better then this. 

It sounds like your doing all the work in the marriage and he's playing the single life by leaving and going out to the bars/clubs. Personally I'd be setting appropriate boundaries. I think MC would really help right now and find a good therapist. Your husband needs to realize what he's doing is hurting you. You both need to put your marriage as your top priority or it will not be successful and you will remain miserable. You both need to work equally hard. He needs to listen to you as you to him. 

I hope your husband realizes how poorly he's treating you. He's not being a good example for the kids. What kind of man asks children to stay up, so they can let him in from a night at the bar. I think your husband has an issue with drinking too. This is not normal behavior. Can he go a month or two without a single drop of alcohol? Try suggesting it. Good luck!


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

He will keep treating you like this, because you have taught him there are no real consequences. 

And you are teaching you children that his behaviour is OK and acceptable, when it's very unhealthy and childish. 

You need good boundaries that you stick by.


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

Don't get me wrong I do know that his behaviour is wrong and I do know that we both have little respect for each other at this point ... otherwise I wouldn't be here. 

We both currently do alot of what we want without too much thought of the other person and it's because we are both hurt and angry and stuck in a bit of a negative cycle at the moment.

Maybe I should have posted more of a balanced history and not just the things that have hurt or made me angry. Like how he he has endured years of abuse from my family who have not really got along with him since we started dating when I was 17, and how he stayed through it all. Or how he used to buy me flowers every week for years and still buys me flowers at least once a month just for the hell of it. Or how he used to get up at 4am in the morning to walk 10km in the snow to stand at a payphone just to talk to me for 20min before I had to go to varsity. And how he then walked another hour to the train station to work 2 jobs getting home at 2am in the morning just to get up at 4am again, and how he slept on a concrete floor for 3 months so he could save up a decent deposit so that when I joined him in England we would have our own (very nice) apartment to stay in. And how when I fell pregnant when we were 21 and 23 he gave up on his plans to stay in England and moved back to SA because thats where I wanted to raise our baby. And how those 2 jobs he worked for more than 3 years in England allowed us to save enough money to put down as the deposit on our first house. And how he sold the race car he had dreamed of for the past 10 years and had just finished building when I lost my job just after our 2nd daughter was born. And how I can't remember the last time I cooked a meal or went to the groccery store because no matter where he is or or where he is going he always makes sure there is food prepared. And when my job is more demanind than his, he runs around after the kids for sports matches and when they are sick. And how now when finances are really rough (partly cause of bad decisions made by me) and things between us are even rougher he doesn't run away even when I tell him to go but stays and fights to keep our house, give our kids the best we can give them and for our marriage. If thats not love then I challenge one of your to tell me what is?

Yes he can act like an ass but he can also be the most amazing man in the world. And besides ... I'm a glass half full kind of person ...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

No offense, but if you dont want opinions, then why bother posting? You are unhappy with how he treats you yet jump to his defense when someone points out the truth. Stop making excuses, if he were the most amazing man in the world, you would not have sought out a place like TAM. So dont jump on folks when they offer advice.


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## LB (May 16, 2013)

I'mInLoveWithMyHusband - DH doesn't really drink in the week, he only drinks when he has guy friends around who will join him. He probably drinks every weekend (if we are out or have people over). Yes he does drink and drive which we have big arguments over, the problem is its done alot in SA as there is no real public transport and law enforcement isn't very stict of drinking and driving is not very strict here like other countries. He has gone 7 years without drinking in the past.

LittleDeer - I do set boundries but DH does not stick to them. What is the solution then do I leave him unless or until he understand that his behaviour is unreasonable (he thinks it is not and that I am too hard on him). I have also looked at counseling for him (which he is happy to go to) or MC but unfourtuantely we just don't have the money right now. Surely leaving him when both of us are not committed to not being together is actually more unfair on the children?

3xnocharm - I am not jumping on folks. I am explaining both sides of the story and I am looking for solutions or ways to improve our current situation not responses like he is an alcoholic (when he is not) and that he is a terrible father (which he is not) and he is cheating (which he is not).

More than anything I guess I am looking for confirmation after everyone knows both stides of the story that I am not being unreasonable (which I think I'm not) and I guess MC is probably the best option so I will try and make a plan so we can afford to go.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Could you find some good counselling through a church? It can be free or relatively inexpensive.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I really do think your marriage can be saved. That's only if he is willing to work at it and as hard as you are. There's a huge difference when your working alone for a successful marriage vs working together for it.

It seems like your marriage is one sided and your doing all the work. Eventually you will have enough and leave if he doesn't get his butt in gear. It seems like your communication with each other has fallen apart and both of you are holding in resentments. 

One of the biggest reasons why I have a successful marriage is communication and compromise. Okay, 2 reasons. My husband and I work equally hard towards our marriage. If one of us is the slightly bit upset towards the other, he makes sure we get it sorted out in a calm way. My h and I talk a lot, usually through out the day, then most the evening. Neither of us ever had any resentments towards each other as of yet. We've been together for 14 years, without working together we'd be miserable. 

My first marriage failed. I was being treated like crap and my ex h refused to listen to me. He felt an entitlement for everything(including sleeping with other women), his ego was very high, and he had zero respect for all women, including me. My ex h came and went whenever he pleased. He'd be gone all night long. I was very unhappy, so I left. I couldn't change my ex h into being a better person. I was only fooling myself thinking so. 

I still wish you the best of luck. You need to get your husband to listen to you and follow through without stepping over the boundaries. If he treats you poorly only when drinking, then maybe he should stop again. If I were in your situation, I'd find a good marriage counselor.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

LB said:


> KathyBatesel I think your post is very unhelpful ....
> 
> Maybe TAM is not the forum for me after all!


Well then - you have it all figured out.

It was nice to see how your husband transformed from the abominable Mr. Hyde into the esteemed Dr. Jekyl so instantaneously too. 

It's a forum record.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

LB said:


> KathyBatesel I think your post is very unhelpful and quite frankly I think you, as a previous drug and alcohol counselor, are transferring your thoughts and feelings from previous expereinces onto my relationship, which quite frankly are not there ... Actually I might even say that you could be a recovering alcoholic or drug abuser yourself.
> 
> No he is not an alcoholic, although from time to time I do say he does have a problem with alcohol.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you found my post unhelpful, because I believe if you gave it some thought and seriously considered what I said, it would prove very helpful. Of course, I'm not the one stuck in a situation that's making me unhappy over and over again. 

I'm not being judgmental. I have never had a drug or alcohol addiction, though I have been codependent for a large chunk of my life and have been through similar things that you're experiencing. But projecting? No. Alcoholism and the dynamics it brings haven't been a part of my personal life since 1995 except as an outsider. 

I said your husband is an alcoholic because he meets the criteria for alcohol dependence, not because I have some deep personal issue. The criteria for alcohol dependence are below, and I'm putting what your husband does in bold beside them. Remember that it only takes THREE of these for a person to be alcohol dependent, and I only know this bit of information based on your own words. As you said, I don't know you guys personally to see what else is present: 

ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE (copied from the National Institute of Mental Health's webpage.)

(A) A maladaptive pattern of drinking, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three or more of the following occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:

Need for markedly increased amounts of alcohol to achieve intoxication or desired effect; or markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of alcohol

The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for alcohol; or drinking (or using a closely related substance) to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms

Drinking in larger amounts or over a longer period than intended.

Persistent desire or one or more unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control drinking *He quit for seven years, but started again. People don't just completely quit something they are doing regularly without a reason. You said you "often tell him drinking is a major part of our problems." *

Important social, occupational, or recreational activities given up or reduced because of drinking *He doesn't spend time with his family at important events because of going out drinking*

A great deal of time spent in activities necessary to obtain, to use, or to recover from the effects of drinking *Twice a week or more spent partying, plus the planning of these times and any amount of time spent getting over hangovers if he gets them... this is WAY past what social drinkers do.*

Continued drinking despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to be caused or exacerbated by drinking. *He keeps drinking even though he knows you dislike it and feel that it's contributing to your marriage problems.
*

Personally, my opinion is that the diagnostic criteria should have a couple of other things on it. Many alcoholics face legal issues because of their drinking - like drunk driving charges or manslaughter charges if they kill someone in the process. You said your husband regularly breaks the law so he can do his partying. Another thing that is very common in alcoholics is that they blame others for their own problems. You said he blames you for "ruining his life." This is typical alcoholic behavior, too. This is not your husband talking, it is the addiction. 

I'd also bet he can drink more today without getting drunk than he could the first few times he ever drank, which is the "increased tolerance" mentioned above, but obviously I have no way to know if that's true. I also don't know if he ever says, "I'm just going to have one or two" and then finds himself drinking four or five, but your statement about him repeatedly drunk driving implies that this probably happens, too, which was also on that list.

You're right.... His drinking IS a problem. 

Alcoholism is an illness. It affects everyone in the family, though. As an alcoholic's wife and children are exposed, they become watchful and uncertain about what will happen. They are missing the emotional security of knowing dad will be home and emotionally availaable. Sometimes they may miss out on financial security, too. The family members strive to protect the person who is hurting them. They clean up the damage to his reputation, any threats to his job, or even physical problems, whether it's cleaning up his vomit or spending hours and hours raising money for his medical care. They develop a strong need to assert some control in a hectic environment that isn't predictable and emotionally safe. 

You can get as p*ssed off as you want at me. You can say I'm projecting. You can ignore me completely. But if you do not acknowledge the problem, it's still going to be there. It's still going to affect you. It's still going to affect your children. 

You posted because your life feels like a constant power struggle. As long as there is alcoholism and codependency going on, that will be true. It's ok to feel a need for predictability in your environment, and it's normal to try to achieve that, even when the person we're working with won't allow it. But the way you're going about it is harmful to everyone. You set boundaries for him, when you SHOULD be setting boundaries for your SELF. You cannot and should not set boundaries or rules, or issue orders to a grown man, but you ABSOLUTELY should decide what you will and will not accept in YOUR life. But when you set those boundaries for your own life, it's up to YOU to enforce them, it's not up to other people to agree to them.


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