# BH:I’m Afraid People Will Think I'm Weak Or Whipped If I Stay With WW Who Cheated



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

*What advice would you give this guy? I think he is moving too fast and not requiring enough from his WW...I don't think his friends reaction was helpful but he seems to want to jump to R a bit quickly IMO.*

____________________________________________


I’m Afraid People Will Think I’m A Cvckold, Weak, Or Whipped If I Stay With The Spouse Who Cheated

By: Katie Lersch: When we find out that our spouse has been cheating, we know that we should momentarily close out the world and focus on what is inside of our own home. We know that we should close ranks and worry only about what WE think and what WE want.

But this is easier said than done. It is just human nature to worry about what others think of us – especially if those other people are friends or family members who we love. And so this worry can sometimes influence our decisions when it comes to the aftermath of the affair.

Someone might explain a situation like this one: “my family is very close. And by ‘family,’ I mean the immediate family of my wife and myself. We don’t keep secrets and it seems that every one knows every one else’s business. I recently found out my wife had a brief affair. She is very apologetic and I still love her. I worry about what would happen to my children in the event of a divorce. I have only confided to one person about this – my childhood best friend. But his response has me very troubled. He said there is an unfortunate name for men who take back cheating wives – cvckold. He also had some other choice words like whipped, pushover, etc. Essentially, he was telling me that a man who allows his wife to cheat on him and then take her back is a man who has no self respect, backbone, or common sense. This makes me pause. Because I don’t want everyone to think this of me. Right now, I have not shared this with our families and I really did not plan to. But I figure that things like this have a way of getting out – especially in my family. So I’m worried that this is what everyone else is going to think of me. It’s bad enough to struggle with my marriage, but I’m not sure if I can deal with that plus the idea that no one is going to respect me because I chose to stay.”

I understand. The thoughts and feelings of others did cross my mind when I was trying to make a decision about my own husband’s affair. It weighs on you. I don’t see how it can’t. We all like to pretend that we do not care about what others think of us. But it’s just a natural and normal part of human nature to want other people to respect us and to think highly of us.

And this thought process wouldn’t really matter if we were talking about a small matter – like hobbies or interests. But we are talking about something very serious like our marriage and our children’s family life. This decision will have extremely far – reaching implications.

The thing is, your marriage (and your decision regarding it) are not really going to affect your friends and your family. Sure, if you divorce, it may be awkward at holidays for a while. But it is not going to affect their day to day life and their future in the way that it is going to affect yours and that of your children.

So, what is most important is what YOU think and what your spouse thinks. You may choose not to tell everyone. You may want to keep this private and between the two of you. What really matters is whether or not YOU think that you are a cvckhold, wimp, or spineless – or all of those other phrases that people use when they are being insensitive and only thinking about themselves.

I can’t tell you what to think or how to feel. But I can tell you that in my own case, one way that I tried to get around feeling like a pushover was to require things of my husband. I do not think I could have slept very well at night if I would have just blindly taken my husband back without requiring lots of remorse, rehabilitation, and healing. He had ALOT of work to do before I would even talk about staying put. He had ALOT to prove to me before I made any commitments to him at all.

I did not always make it easy for him. But I wanted some proof that he thought our marriage was worth the hard work and the requirements. This gave me the confidence that I was making the right decision and it let me know that I didn’t just blindly take him back. The rest of the story on my blog at surviving-the-affair.com

Nothing says you have to share everything right now. There’s enough to process without adding the opinions to others into the equation.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

@Truthseeker1 You seem obsessed with the topic of infidelity, posting dozens of articles and polls. Which thread is YOUR story? I am interested to read it. :smile2:


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> @Truthseeker1 You seem obsessed with the topic of infidelity, posting dozens of articles and polls. Which thread is YOUR story? I am interested to read it. :smile2:


I've experienced it and seen even more of it in my personal life - from every angle - from a LTA of 20 years to a remorseless wife who had her AP's child to everything in between. 

I post articles I think folks might find helpful.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I've experienced it and seen even more of it in my personal life - from every angle - from a LTA of 20 years to a remorseless wife who had her AP's child to everything in between.
> 
> I post articles I think folks might find helpful.


Sorry to hear that. I just wanted to know your story. I have not been here long enough to see it play out in your posts.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@blueinbr Oh and here is one more..I knew a couple who were madhatters and once spouse has a same sex affair partner and came out as gay...that was one wild divorce...


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> Sorry to hear that. I just wanted to know your story. I have not been here long enough to see it play out in your posts.


What brought me here was a search for answers I was going through getting over an ex and the stories of people in my life who were cheating or had been cheated on were piling up...so I was like what the hell is causing this?


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What brought me here was a search for answers I was going through getting over an ex and the stories of people in my life who were cheating or had been cheated on were piling up...so I was like what the hell is causing this?


I did not realize how pervasive cheating is until I came here and had my eyes opened. I mean pervasive in my surroundings and people I know.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> madhatters


I have seen that word but goggle does not confirm. Is a madhatter a cheater?


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> I did not realize how pervasive cheating is until I came here and had my eyes opened. I mean pervasive in my surroundings and people I know.


Unfortunately it was my personal life that opened my eyes...growing up there were stories of cheaters...I even know a much older woman who was a cheater if you met her you;d be stunned - she is so "proper" - well I was told in her day she had a torrid affair with a wealthy man and almost gave up her family for him..


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> I have seen that word but goggle does not confirm. Is a madhatter a cheater?


A madhatter is when both people cheat..they wear both hats of the BS and WS - hence the term madhatters...


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@blueinbr what advice would you give the BH in the article?


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @blueinbr what advice would you give the BH in the article?


I have not read the full article yet. 

As a general rule I do not (can not) offer advice to betrayed.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> I have not read the full article yet.
> 
> As a general rule I do not (can not) offer advice to betrayed.


OK..but I do think his best friend calling him a cvckold was out of line - big time...if a person stays out of strength and not fear they are not weak..its when they roll over and take part of the blame for their spouses affair for example that they are showing weaknss IMO...


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> @Truthseeker1 You seem obsessed with the topic of infidelity, posting dozens of articles and polls. Which thread is YOUR story? I am interested to read it. :smile2:


How is it any skin off your back? He's the one expending the energy to type up the thread...not you. 

He posts these threads because they are informative and encourage discussion and debate. That is what a discussion forum is for.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> How is it any skin off your back? He's the one expending the energy to type up the thread...not you.
> 
> He posts these threads because they are informative and encourage discussion and debate. That is what a discussion forum is for.


Chill out. TS and I have been chatting back and forth. No offense was meant to him and if he was offended he would have said so.

I used a word I thought was appropriate and I asked an honest question of him, and he gave me his answer. 

By the same token, I offered my opinion in a discussion forum. 

:|


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> How is it any skin off your back? He's the one expending the energy to type up the thread...not you.
> 
> He posts these threads because they are informative and encourage discussion and debate. That is what a discussion forum is for.


Thanks Bandit! But I wasn't offended...I did think this article brought up an interesting dilemma particularly for BHs who stay....how dooe a BH reconcile with HIMSELF and just his WW....that is why I posted it...


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Thanks Bandit! But I wasn't offended...I did think this article brought up an interesting dilemma particularly for BHs who stay....how dooe a BH reconcile with HIMSELF and just his WW....that is why I posted it...


I don't know - how does any spouse reconcile the various hurts that come from an affair? The same way we manage to overcome every other hurt in life. By believing, sometimes correctly, sometimes not, that the alternative is worse. 

Even though there are plenty here who think any cheating spouse ought to be put down in the back yard, things are never that cut and dried for those in the actual relationship. Embarrassment fades - divorce is forever. 

I still remember the day 15 years ago when I accidentally spit coffee all over the back of one of my female co-workers. The embarrassment was near fatal, but I had to come to work the next day nonetheless.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Honestly I would think that they are weak. I think this because fear of being alone or facing the unknown makes people stay. To me infidelity is a form of abuse same as physical and emotional domestic violence and you just don't ever recover from that with your current partner who did that. Moving forward, moving past it means moving on from it my opinion. I think real strength comes from facing the unknown and saying this is still better than being abused


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

This man should change his tactics and care less what other people think about him. 
If his friend wanted to give him advice he should not say those hurtful comments. He could easly say "Divorce her and move on" or "what is she doing to make you secured,loved,respected so she can save this Marriage". 

Staying in Marriage because of the kids is a huge mistake. People dont realize how this hurt them even more.

Maybe he should join here on TAM


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think not looking at your own hand in your marital troubles makes you look weak.


----------



## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I think that there are so many variables that come into play when deciding to stay or not to stay. It is an anguishing decision that never comes without much internal debate and a weighing of the pros and cons. For someone to say another is weak for staying with someone they still love -despite the pain that was inflicted on them- is way out of line and grossly inaccurate. 

The benefit of discussing it on TAM with others who have been through it is that it allows you to see different decisions and their outcomes from all angles. The articles (such as the ones TS posts) add even more information and awareness. 

I do not see my H as being weak for staying with me. I see it as strength. I see that he suffers and has bad dreams about me. I see that he struggles to keep his disappointment, sadness and anger from tainting his love for me. (I know it is changed but not lessened) I see that everyday he makes the decision to love me deeply anyway. I have done the same.

If he had decided to leave me I would have to see that as strength too. It would take great courage to change his life at this stage of the game. It would require the same integrity and conviction to leave.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Be smart said:


> This man should change his tactics and care less what other people think about him.
> If his friend wanted to give him advice he should not say those hurtful comments. He could easly say "Divorce her and move on" or "what is she doing to make you secured,loved,respected so she can save this Marriage".
> 
> Staying in Marriage because of the kids is a huge mistake. People dont realize how this hurt them even more.
> ...


Agree 100%..him caring about what other people think shows an insecurity on his part about himself ans perhaps his decision...his friend should have phrased it exactly as you described....name calling helps no one...he should be counseled and cautioned - not berated...


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

nursejackie said:


> I think that there are so many variables that come into play when deciding to stay or not to stay. It is an anguishing decision that never comes without much internal debate and a weighing of the pros and cons. For someone to say another is weak for staying with someone they still love -despite the pain that was inflicted on them- is way out of line and grossly inaccurate.
> 
> The benefit of discussing it on TAM with others who have been through it is that it allows you to see different decisions and their outcomes from all angles. The articles (such as the ones TS posts) add even more information and awareness.
> 
> ...


I think the h in this case seems to have moved too quickly hence his questioning his decision. His wife is apolgetic? What does that mean? I would counsel him to slow down and rethink everything...


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

I tried to reconcile with a wife that cheated. I felt like sh*t about myself the entire time. In the end my self-respect won out. We're still married because it's cheaper to keep her for a bit longer but she knows as soon as that's not the case, I'm gone. It's amicable these days. She used to still DB (divorce bust, her favorite marriage help site) but I've told her over and over it's not going to happen. You can't lay with another man and ever lay with me again. I don't cross that boundary, not even for the mother of my children.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> I tried to reconcile with a wife that cheated. I felt like sh*t about myself the entire time. In the end my self-respect won out. We're still married because it's cheaper to keeper for a bit longer but she knows as soon as that's not the case, I'm gone. It's amicable these days. She used to still DB (divorce bust, her favorite marriage help site) but I've told her over and over it's not going to happen. You can't lay with another man and ever lay with me again. I don't cross that boundary, not even for the mother of my children.


is she trying to r still?


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> is she trying to r still?


Yes. She's following the DB process to the letter. The thing is, I can also read websites and know what she's up to. I harbor no ill will toward her. She did what she did. I forgive her but can't stay married to her. That's my boundary. She can't lay with another man and stay married to me. That's an absolute. Know what I mean?


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> Yes. She's following the DB process to the letter. The thing is, I can also read websites and know what she's up to. I harbor no ill will toward her. She did what she did. I forgive her but can't stay married to her. That's my boundary. She can't lay with another man and stay married to me. That's an absolute. Know what I mean?


How long was her A?


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How long was her A?


Just shy of a year. Midlife crisis excuse. Wanted to sow some wild oats but never intended on messing up her marriage. Never got serious with anyone else but wanted some other experiences and then to re-dedicate herself to being in a monogamous marriage. Only problem is one of the OBS's discovered the dirty deeds and blew the whole thing up. Oh well, life goes on.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> Just shy of a year. Midlife crisis excuse. Wanted to sow some wild oats but never intended on messing up her marriage. Never got serious with anyone else but wanted some other experiences and then to re-dedicate herself to being in a monogamous marriage. Only problem is one of the OBS's discovered the dirty deeds and blew the whole thing up. Oh well, life goes on.


are you dating anyone?


----------



## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

LucasJackson said:


> I tried to reconcile with a wife that cheated. I felt like sh*t about myself the entire time. In the end my self-respect won out. We're still married because it's cheaper to keep her for a bit longer but she knows as soon as that's not the case, I'm gone. It's amicable these days. She used to still DB (divorce bust, her favorite marriage help site) but I've told her over and over it's not going to happen. You can't lay with another man and ever lay with me again. I don't cross that boundary, not even for the mother of my children.


Same here...personally even an EA is ground for divorce IMHO. 


So a PA is a no brainier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

I would have given the same advice as the friend. That comes from my own personal experience. And, the friend may have had something similar happen in his own experiences.
Had I stayed with my ex-wife I would consider myself to be a cuckold.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> I would have given the same advice as the friend. That comes from my own personal experience. And, the friend may have had something similar happen in his own experiences.
> Had I stayed with my ex-wife I would consider myself to be a cuckold.


I think a lot of men feel this way...


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Its not so much what other people think of me. It is how I feel about myself. 

Now, I did flounder for a couple of years. Ill admit that. I was weak for a while and would have done anything to keep the marriage intact. But, I know I would have eventually gotten to this point no matter what. Because when everything calms down, the logic kicks in. I never would have been happy if I had stayed. An affair absolutely destroys a marriage. It completely rips apart all of the most important things that marriage is based on.

All of this is very clear to me now. So that is the advice I give. Even my current girlfriend knows that if there is just a single incident of infidelity, I will be gone and she will never see me again. Period..... No excuses whatsoever. To be fair, she agrees with this, and it goes both ways. Because she is also a BS from her previous marriage. And she will not tolerate any infidelity of any sort.

It doesn't feel bitter. It feels good  We don't have to worry about one another


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> are you dating anyone?


No. We're still married. I'm done with that marriage but won't pursue anything with anyone until the marriage is dissolved. Even then I want to do my own thing for a while. I've been half of a couple for a long time. I want to enjoy this new freedom before I start sharing/compromising with someone else again.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> No. We're still married. I'm done with that marriage but won't pursue anything with anyone until the marriage is dissolved. Even then I want to do my own thing for a while. I've been half of a couple for a long time. I want to enjoy this new freedom before I start sharing/compromising with someone else again.


do you think she is dating?


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> do you think she is dating?


No. She's DB'ing. She's a stepford wife these days. She's literally the model wife,mother, partner. All according to the DB playbook. I give her credit. She's following their program to the letter. She thinks she's going to win me back.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> No. She's DB'ing. She's a stepford wife these days. She's literally the model wife,mother, partner. All according to the DB playbook. I give her credit. She's following their program to the letter. She thinks she's going to win me back.


how much longer will you be married? Are you two even intimate at all?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

it-guy said:


> An affair absolutely destroys a marriage. It completely rips apart all of the most important things that marriage is based on.


For you, and for some. But not for all. I don't begrudge you your position on this, because it is your reality, and I have no right to discredit it.

But a marriage can be the sum of many more things than sexual exclusivity. I'm not even talking about open marriages. Finding someone who supports you, listens to you, likes your company, who is prepared and even willing to live with your particular brand of lunacy all goes into the punch bowl. 

An affair _can_ be a sign that something is seriously broken in a marriage, not necessarily that such a marriage is destined for no other end than dissolution. The affair can be the symptom, not the disease itself. Curing the disease can sometimes save the marriage.

Having an affair is a mistake, one of the biggest we can make, but it is not de facto unforgivable for everyone. Hell, I watched my sister-in-law put up with 20 years of alcoholism and drug abuse before she finally pulled the plug, and we applaud people like her for their perseverance in the face of adversity. The spouse that takes back the wayward grants that person an enormous gift. Under the right circumstances, such a spouse is also to be considered strong and kind.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Festivus said:


> Having an affair is a mistake, one of the biggest we can make, but it is not de facto unforgivable for everyone. Hell, I watched my sister-in-law put up with 20 years of alcoholism and drug abuse before she finally pulled the plug, and we applaud people like her for their perseverance in the face of adversity. The spouse that takes back the wayward grants that person an enormous gift. Under the right circumstances, such a spouse is also to be considered strong and kind.


An affair is NOT a mistake but a choice....


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> Its not so much what other people think of me. It is how I feel about myself.
> 
> Now, I did flounder for a couple of years. Ill admit that. I was weak for a while and would have done anything to keep the marriage intact. But, I know I would have eventually gotten to this point no matter what. Because when everything calms down, the logic kicks in. I never would have been happy if I had stayed. An affair absolutely destroys a marriage. It completely rips apart all of the most important things that marriage is based on.
> 
> ...


Do oyu have kids wiht your ex or were you able to kick her out of your life completely?


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Festivus said:


> I don't know - how does any spouse reconcile the various hurts that come from an affair? The same way we manage to overcome every other hurt in life. By believing, sometimes correctly, sometimes not, that the alternative is worse.
> 
> Even though there are plenty here who think any cheating spouse ought to be put down in the back yard, things are never that cut and dried for those in the actual relationship. Embarrassment fades - divorce is forever.
> 
> I still remember the day 15 years ago when I accidentally spit coffee all over the back of one of my female co-workers. The embarrassment was near fatal, but I had to come to work the next day nonetheless.


For what its worth, you are seriously my favorite poster on all of TAM, and you only have a handful of posts.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> An affair is NOT a mistake but a choice....


An affair is not an accident, but it is very much a mistake. It is the mistake of making a poor choice.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Festivus said:


> An affair is not an accident, but it is very much a mistake. It is the mistake of making a poor choice.


It's a conscious choice..a bad one but a choice...the term mistake makes it less than what it is..and I'm certianly not alone in thinking that..

Tell me have you ever been the victim or perpetrator of infidelity?


----------



## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Festivus said:


> An affair is not an accident, but it is very much a mistake. It is the mistake of making a poor choice.





Truthseeker1 said:


> It's a conscious choice..a bad one but a choice...the term mistake makes it less than what it is..and I'm certianly not alone in thinking that..
> 
> Tell me have you ever been the victim or perpetrator of infidelity?


You two are arguing semantics.

Festivus is simply saying it's a mistake. 99.99% of the time, WS regret and will say their affair was a mistake. 
Trutherseeker is saying the decision to engage in an affair was a choice. It's not like some tornado came out of no where and picked the WS up and threw them into a bed with the AP, and that the two were naked. 

It's a conscious choice to make a mistake stemming from several factors.


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> how much longer will you be married? Are you two even intimate at all?


We'll be married for another full school year minimum. My wife loves that because she, and her IC, think she can win me back in that time. As for intimacy that's not going to happen. She met with multiple AP's. She used my own unwavering trust of her against me. She had unprotected sex multiple times with different people. That's not the type of woman I'd ever associate with. I would never touch her sexually again. I have more self-respect than that. I don't want to complicate my situation by adding another woman to the mix right now but if the right person came along I can't say as I wouldn't. All I know for sure is I'm done with the woman I used to think was my soul mate. Now I know there is no such thing. I'm not bitter. I'm actually pretty happy these days. I answer to no one but myself. I do what I want, when I want. I haven't had freedom like this since.......ever.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> We'll be married for another full school year minimum. My wife loves that because she, and her IC, think she can win me back in that time. As for intimacy that's not going to happen. She met with multiple AP's. She used my own unwavering trust of her against me. She had unprotected sex multiple times with different people. That's not the type of woman I'd ever associate with. I would never touch her sexually again. I have more self-respect than that. I don't want to complicate my situation by adding another woman to the mix right now but if the right person came along I can't say as I wouldn't. All I know for sure is I'm done with the woman I used to think was my soul mate. Now I know there is no such thing. I'm not bitter. I'm actually pretty happy these days. I answer to no one but myself. I do what I want, when I want. I haven't had freedom like this since.......ever.



Wow how many APs did she have? And she thinks after disrespecting you and the marriage like that she is going ot get a second chance? Her delusions are going to make the divorce harder on herself....

After what she did if the right woman came along who could blame you? How old are your kids?


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> threw them into a bed with the AP, and that the two were naked.
> 
> It's a conscious choice to make a mistake stemming from several factors.


Its a conscious choice stemming form one factor..a desire to have sex with someone else...


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> A madhatter is when both people cheat..they wear both hats of the BS and WS - hence the term madhatters...


It is really the SAME HAT.

When "Thou Art" a *BS+WS*, it is worn "Atop" the brain-case.

When "Thou Be"*only a BS*, then it is pulled down.....down over the Betrayed one's eyes.

A hat keeps one's head....warm, and provides a cushion from the topside-knocks one gets in life.



A BS's hat forces his/her eyes into the "unseen mode"...equivalent to the Ostriches head in the Gibson Desert. Eyes that do not see, shielded eyes that block those painful signals to the optic nerve... to the Drained-Case.


Problem?
BS's still have ears. The truth enters the braincase by this means [and others, I wish not to reveal]. The Gut is one.. 


The BS/WS hat, now referred to as the Madhat has other functions.
Yes, it keeps the Drained Case warm. 

But it also serves another purpose. It shares the purpose that a WS's hat would.....It's overly large brim blocks out the Light of Day, keeping the dark thoughts active. 

And, *MY* friendlies...it keeps *IN* the Wayward Fog. The Fog does not roll out even when the SunCMars glares at it!

And the BS/WSs hat hides the bald head...and the bald-faced lying un-truths that lie....pimply covered. Yeppir...and OK, yuk with an F.

Remember this, Oh, cheated-on Avatars; that BS hat covers the Hair Triggered emoticons...those personal mental reminders that try to escape out "da *died* follicles" and into the Mad-Hair Forest, looking for the bloodless period before DD. Looking for that elusive Time Piece that White Rabbit clutched but lost.

Hats It Folks....chew on that gristle.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

@weltschmerz : An older and remembered quote:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Indeed, I could go into great detail about my vision although I'm afraid my imagery would be hardly as vivid. Cheers.

Holy mother of sarcasm!!! 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Lest others feel left out-

The Freshly Posting "Others" do get the Sarcasm A-Bombs, when appropriate.

Yeppir, when Lord Endorphin is omnipresent and sufficient; the neurotransmitters charged-up "enough" to jump-start the chemical synapse, racing to the neuromuscular junction.




Note to critics:

Are these Treble-Hook-Barbs dropped from a HIGH above.......not...sorry! My Grey Lot is quirky, YET is a sober mind. One, that makes sense of "Not-Really Chaos", using an antique Rat-a-Tat.... the venerable WWI B.A.R.

I am NOT from the Government...I AM here to help. Laughter is the best medicine, Eh?


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow how many APs did she have? And she thinks after disrespecting you and the marriage like that she is going ot get a second chance? Her delusions are going to make the divorce harder on herself....
> 
> After what she did if the right woman came along who could blame you? How old are your kids?


Her, and her IC, try to pass it off with all the psycho-babble bullsh*t about midlife crisis. I'm not buying it. She sticks to the claim that none of it meant anything and that she was still my wife and she only loved me. I told her, back when I would still talk about this with her, that it meant something to me. It was a deal-breaker. We both made that agreement with each other a couple decades ago when we got married. I stuck by that deal and I've had literally hundreds of chances to cheat on her. I never would have. She could have had a husband that loved her, honored her, and cherished her until the day either one of us died. She chose of her own free will to piss that away. The "why's" of it used to torture me. Now I literally don't give a sh*t. Never try to figure out crazy. It'll make you crazy too. She hit a certain age and went crazy. I detached (not an overnight process). I no longer give sh*t what becomes of her future. I won't be part of it.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> Her, and her IC, try to pass it off with all the psycho-babble bullsh*t about midlife crisis. I'm not buying it. She sticks to the claim that none of it meant anything and that she was still my wife and she only loved me. I told her, back when I would still talk about this with her, that it meant something to me. It was a deal-breaker. We both made that agreement with each other a couple decades ago when we got married. I stuck by that deal and I've had literally hundreds of chances to cheat on her. I never would have. She could have had a husband that loved her, honored her, and cherished her until the day either one of us died. She chose of her own free will to piss that away. The "why's" of it used to torture me. Now I literally don't give a sh*t. Never try to figure out crazy. It'll make you crazy too. She hit a certain age and went crazy. I detached (not an overnight process). I no longer give sh*t what becomes of her future. I won't be part of it.


Even after being up front with her your wife still doesn't think you are going to divorce her when the time is right?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

LucasJackson said:


> We'll be married for another full school year minimum. My wife loves that because she, and her IC, think she can win me back in that time. As for intimacy that's not going to happen. She met with multiple AP's. She used my own unwavering trust of her against me. She had unprotected sex multiple times with different people. That's not the type of woman I'd ever associate with. I would never touch her sexually again. I have more self-respect than that. I don't want to complicate my situation by adding another woman to the mix right now but if the right person came along I can't say as I wouldn't. All I know for sure is I'm done with the woman I used to think was my soul mate. Now I know there is no such thing. I'm not bitter. I'm actually pretty happy these days. I answer to no one but myself. I do what I want, when I want. I haven't had freedom like this since.......ever.


And you have never been more attractive to her than you are now. 

If given the opportunity she would jump your bones and be your sex slave. She, like many women, wants what she cannot have. 

Kudos to you for choosing to not take advantage of her. Many men in your position would use and abuse her for their pleasure and then dump her in the end. You choose not to and that is cool.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> And you have never been more attractive to her than you are now.
> 
> If given the opportunity she would jump your bones and be your sex slave. She, like many women, wants what she cannot have.
> 
> Kudos to you for choosing to not take advantage of her. Many men in your position would use and abuse her for their pleasure and then dump her in the end. You choose not to and that is cool.


His wife does sound like she is in la la land about the impending divorce..it is not going to be pretty when reality hits her...


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

I have to disagree with some of us here. If a man choose to stay with his wife he is not a cuckold. In other hand if he gives her a green light to screw everything that moves then he is a fool or cuckold or what ever you call him.

In some cases wife is remorseful and she is doing everything in her power to let her man know she loves him and she will never do this again. If he gives her a second chance he is not a weak man,cuckold,***** whiped or other names that we like to use. 
@LucasJackson did a right thing. His wife is/was using excuses for Affair like mid life crisis so she could sleep with other men. Even her therapist said the same thing. She is wasting her money. 
Best of luck to you my friend. Some day you will find a good woman.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Be smart said:


> I have to disagree with some of us here. If a man choose to stay with his wife he is not a cuckold. In other hand if he gives her a green light to screw everything that moves then he is a fool or cuckold or what ever you call him.
> 
> In some cases wife is remorseful and she is doing everything in her power to let her man know she loves him and she will never do this again. If he gives her a second chance he is not a weak man,cuckold,***** whiped or other names that we like to use.
> 
> ...


Agree 100% if a H stays out of strength and lets his wife win him back he is certainly not a cvck at all...


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Even after being up front with her your wife still doesn't think you are going to divorce her when the time is right?


I'm very up front and totally honest about it with her. I've said there is no possible way of this divorce not happening. I've said if God himself came down from heaven above and commanded me to stay married to her, I'd say no, and the D would still happen. She listens to her IC and the DB website. They tell her it ain't over til it's over. Just keep filling my love bank and I'll come around.

She also takes the fact that I won't see other women as a sign that I'm not moving on. Me not dating until the D is final is a principle of mine but in no way signals I'm not ready to move on. I'm more than ready, I've actually done it. Every time I tell her this she passes it off as if it's not real. I've read the DB method on their site. I know what she's doing. It's not going to happen.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> I'm very up front and totally honest about it with her. I've said there is no possible way of this divorce not happening. I've said if God himself came down from heaven above and commanded me to stay married to her, I'd say no, and the D would still happen. She listens to her IC and the DB website. They tell her it ain't over til it's over. Just keep filling my love bank and I'll come around.
> 
> She also takes the fact that I won't see other women as a sign that I'm not moving on. Me not dating until the D is final is a principle of mine but in no way signals I'm not ready to move on. I'm more than ready, I've actually done it. Every time I tell her this she passes it off as if it's not real. I've read the DB method on their site. I know what she's doing. It's not going to happen.


What do you think she would do if you were seeing other women? would she go back to seeing other men?


----------



## Dycedarg (Apr 17, 2014)

People would think those things because they're true.


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Festivus said:


> For you, and for some. But not for all. I don't begrudge you your position on this, because it is your reality, and I have no right to discredit it.
> 
> But a marriage can be the sum of many more things than sexual exclusivity. I'm not even talking about open marriages. Finding someone who supports you, listens to you, likes your company, who is prepared and even willing to live with your particular brand of lunacy all goes into the punch bowl.
> 
> ...


I do agree with your point of view also. It all depends on the situation. For me, the most important part that was destroyed was trust. My ex didn't have a drunken one night stand. It was months of planning and sneaking around. That was not a mistake.

But yes, I can see where some situations are different. Unfortunately I cant handle any of it anymore. Maybe I could have before my experiences.


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Do oyu have kids wiht your ex or were you able to kick her out of your life completely?


I have 2 kids with my ex. Currently 10yo and 13yo. So she will be in my life for many more years. But these days we tend to only communicate about the kids and schedules. We can get along when we talk about the kids. We cooperate well. But that is it. We argue about everything else.

When the kids are grown up she will be out of my life forever. I don't agree with the choices she has made, or the person she has become. And she is not friendly towards my new relationship. 

The kids have adjusted well. I worried about them when we separated. But things have worked out just fine for them.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> I have 2 kids with my ex. Currently 10yo and 13yo. So she will be in my life for many more years. But these days we tend to only communicate about the kids and schedules. We can get along when we talk about the kids. We cooperate well. But that is it. We argue about everything else.
> 
> When the kids are grown up she will be out of my life forever. I don't agree with the choices she has made, or the person she has become. *And she is not friendly towards my new relationship. *
> 
> The kids have adjusted well. I worried about them when we separated. But things have worked out just fine for them.


Is she jealous?


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> And you have never been more attractive to her than you are now.
> 
> If given the opportunity she would jump your bones and be your sex slave. She, like many women, wants what she cannot have.
> 
> Kudos to you for choosing to not take advantage of her. Many men in your position would use and abuse her for their pleasure and then dump her in the end. You choose not to and that is cool.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
A former poster Machievelli would be proud of Lucas :smile2:Keeping up the don't give a sh!t attitude is quite attractive.
Look up jerry123's story he is one of the few stay at home dads who gets hit on constantly.


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is she jealous?


Honestly I have no idea. I don't think she wants me back. I think she just wants me to be alone and available as a backup plan or babysitter. We were together for 20 years so I guess old habits are hard to break.

I am very happy in my new relationship. I have moved in with my girlfriend of 3 years, and we are engaged. We are getting a large house together next month. Things are great.

She has dated a lot of different guys. And she has had a hard time because they all turn out to be scum bags in one way or another. Her current guy is actively cheating on her and for some reason she stays with him.

So maybe she is just mad and still blaming me for the way her life is going. But these are all her choices. Not mine. I don't pick these guys. She does.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is she jealous?


Probably found out like many after she hit the wall the grass wasn't greener so to speak.
Sad but true.


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

tom67 said:


> Probably found out like many after she hit the wall the grass wasn't greener so to speak.
> Sad but true.


Yeah the grass is certainly not green. I mean.....I will never claim to be perfect. But I would have loved her and been faithful till the day I died.

If its sex with a bunch of random guys on dating sites she wants, she can have her fill of that.

I am back where I want to be..... a committed long term relationship. And I have a family again. That's all I could ever want. And that makes me happy.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> Honestly I have no idea. I don't think she wants me back. I think she just wants me to be alone and available as a backup plan or babysitter. We were together for 20 years so I guess old habits are hard to break.
> 
> I am very happy in my new relationship. I have moved in with my girlfriend of 3 years, and we are engaged. We are getting a large house together next month. Things are great.
> 
> ...


In other words she is getting everything she deserves...do you have 50/50 custody? Does she parade all these guys in front of her kids? What a fvcking example she is setting...sad...


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Probably found out like many after she hit the wall the grass wasn't greener so to speak.
> Sad but true.


Where she hits her wall its going to be UGLY...


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> Yeah the grass is certainly not green. I mean.....I will never claim to be perfect. But I would have loved her and been faithful till the day I died.
> 
> If its sex with a bunch of random guys on dating sites she wants, she can have her fill of that.
> 
> I am back where I want to be..... a committed long term relationship. And I have a family again. That's all I could ever want. And that makes me happy.


She sounds like a broken person...and skanky on top of that...


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> In other words she is getting everything she deserves...do you have 50/50 custody? Does she parade all these guys in front of her kids? What a fvcking example she is setting...sad...


I get the kids one night every weekend. I also see them at least one evening during the week. We do cooperate very well about the kids and I can take them on longer trips when those situations come up. She even asks me to keep them extra nights sometimes when she is doing some couple thing with her current bf. So, its all good as far as the kids go.

Her current BF of 6 months is the first guy she introduced to the kids. And he is probably the most decent so far. I mean....he is cheating on her.... but otherwise he is fine. He keeps her house up and is decent to the kids. That's all I care about.

The kids know he is cheating. Not my fault. They found out from her somehow. They told me about it in fact. Honestly I don't care as long as he is nice to the kids and not a danger in any way (which he does not seem to be)

She does seem to be getting what she deserves.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> I get the kids one night every weekend. I also see them at least one evening during the week. We do cooperate very well about the kids and I can take them on longer trips when those situations come up. She even asks me to keep them extra nights sometimes when she is doing some couple thing with her current bf. So, its all good as far as the kids go.
> 
> Her current BF of 6 months is the first guy she introduced to the kids. And he is probably the most decent so far. I mean....he is cheating on her.... but otherwise he is fine. He keeps her house up and is decent to the kids. That's all I care about.
> 
> ...


Why does she get the kids for the bulk of the time?? Given her lifestyle choices...


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What do you think she would do if you were seeing other women? would she go back to seeing other men?


I have no idea. What makes me feel pretty good too is that I really don't care. It took me quite a while and a LOT of pain to get here but it feels so good to be here.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> I have no idea. What makes me feel pretty good too is that I really don't care. It took me quite a while and a LOT of pain to get here but it feels so good to be here.


You do realize form what you have described when D comes she is going to flip out...


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Why does she get the kids for the bulk of the time?? Given her lifestyle choices...


Because I was overly giving during the divorce. I also gave her the house that we lived in. And she gets good child support. No alimony though. That was the trade-off for me letting the house equity go.

She has never put the kids in danger. But I do agree that she is not setting the best example for them. And even at their young ages I can see where they have become dissatisfied with her lifestyle.

I try to set a very good example in my house. They get along very well with my GF and her kids. We show them what a real loving and caring relationship looks like.

I do get angry with her at times. But in general I am glad that things worked out the way that they did. It gave me a kick in the butt to better myself. And I am, and will always be a much better person and father than I would have ever been. I have really taken the opportunity to do everything better in my life.

And as far as my ex goes.... I am reaching the point of indifference. She is going to make her own choices and live her own life. But that is going to be a life without me. Because I will never go back for any reason. So call it Karma or call it poor choices..... she is just going to live however her life turns out. And so far it looks like it has been tough.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> Because I was overly giving during the divorce. I also gave her the house that we lived in. And she gets good child support. No alimony though. That was the trade-off for me letting the house equity go.
> 
> She has never put the kids in danger. But I do agree that she is not setting the best example for them. And even at their young ages I can see where they have become dissatisfied with her lifestyle.
> 
> ...


Why doesn't she like your new fiance? She sounds like she is headed towards being one bitter old lady...and deservedly so..her lifestyle and infidelity is an embarrassment but she sounds too stupid to be ashamed..


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

LucasJackson said:


> I have no idea. What makes me feel pretty good too is that I really don't care. It took me quite a while and a LOT of pain to get here but it feels so good to be here.


Yes it takes time...

Some things all men should read...

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

http://marriedmansexlife.com/blog/

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Why doesn't she like your new fiance? She sounds like she is headed towards being one bitter old lady...and deservedly so..her lifestyle and infidelity is an embarrassment but she sounds too stupid to be ashamed..


I don't think she has a personal problem with my fiancé. I think it is just bitterness and she cannot stand to see me happy and moving on. So she is going to lash out towards ANYONE that I am with. That's exactly what it looks like to me.

My ex has pretty severe narcissistic tendencies. She only cares about herself. The kids are second, but there is a large gap between herself and them. No one else is even on her list.

This has became more and more obvious in the past 5-6 years.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> I don't think she has a personal problem with my fiancé. I think it is just bitterness and she cannot stand to see me happy and moving on. So she is going to lash out towards ANYONE that I am with. That's exactly what it looks like to me.
> 
> My ex has pretty severe narcissistic tendencies. She only cares about herself. The kids are second, but there is a large gap between herself and them. No one else is even on her list.
> 
> This has became more and more obvious in the past 5-6 years.


From what you describe she is headed into a lifetime of misery...seeing you putting together a happy blended family must drive her nuts..

Does she fight with your fiance?


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> From what you describe she is headed into a lifetime of misery...seeing you putting together a happy blended family must drive her nuts..
> 
> Does she fight with your fiance?


I have to keep them apart. Like I seriously avoid moments when they see one another. My fiancé is the no-nonsense type that will not tolerate my ex's bad attitude and fake smiles. My ex plays nice to her face but everyone sees thru it.

I am a non confrontational person. But, my fiancé will smack the sh!t out of her if she keeps it up.....lol

We live an hour apart, so keeping them physically apart is not much of a problem. I work in the same town that my kids and ex live in. So I usually handle pickups and drop-offs alone.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> I have to keep them apart. Like I seriously avoid moments when they see one another. My fiancé is the no-nonsense type that will not tolerate my ex's bad attitude and fake smiles. My ex plays nice to her face but everyone sees thru it.
> 
> I am a non confrontational person. But, my fiancé will smack the sh!t out of her if she keeps it up.....lol
> 
> We live an hour apart, so keeping them physically apart is not much of a problem. I work in the same town that my kids and ex live in. So I usually handle pickups and drop-offs alone.


Your fiance must be thrilled with your ex's parenting style and the example she is setting for her kids...


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Your fiance must be thrilled with your ex's parenting style and the example she is setting for her kids...


It stresses her. It certainly does. And I have to be carful because that is unneeded stress on our relationship. I have to stay very aware of that. This is an unfortunate fact of divorced life.

But the kids are good and we have not had any issues. Its just something we have to stay on top of. 

My fiancé's advice to me, and I agree with her, is to be as distant from my ex as possible. I just need to be completely detached from her life. And this actually seems to work so far because we cooperate so well with the kids schedules. We can literally just arrange pickup and dropoff times without the need for any other communication. I guess I am lucky about that. The kids have not ever been used as pawns by either of us.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> It stresses her. It certainly does. And I have to be carful because that is unneeded stress on our relationship. I have to stay very aware of that. This is an unfortunate fact of divorced life.
> 
> But the kids are good and we have not had any issues. Its just something we have to stay on top of.
> 
> My fiancé's advice to me, and I agree with her, is to be as distant from my ex as possible. I just need to be completely detached from her life. And this actually seems to work so far because we cooperate so well with the kids schedules. We can literally just arrange pickup and dropoff times without the need for any other communication. I guess I am lucky about that. The kids have not ever been used as pawns by either of us.


Your fiance is a wise woman and your ex is a fool......


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Your fiance is a wise woman and your ex is a fool......


Its a shame we have to go through all of this stuff to become better people. We all have to learn lessons the hard way I guess.

I'm sure my ex will have a turning point in her life at some point.

My job now is to finish raising happy and healthy kids. And to make myself and those close to me happy as well. I don't regret where I am today.


----------



## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

LucasJackson said:


> We'll be married for another full school year minimum. My wife loves that because she, and her IC, think she can win me back in that time. As for intimacy that's not going to happen. She met with multiple AP's. She used my own unwavering trust of her against me. She had unprotected sex multiple times with different people. That's not the type of woman I'd ever associate with. I would never touch her sexually again. I have more self-respect than that. I don't want to complicate my situation by adding another woman to the mix right now but if the right person came along I can't say as I wouldn't. All I know for sure is I'm done with the woman I used to think was my soul mate. Now I know there is no such thing. I'm not bitter. I'm actually pretty happy these days. I answer to no one but myself. I do what I want, when I want. I haven't had freedom like this since.......ever.



Damn, oh I'd bet my house, car, kids, even dog. Ha...that she'd have another affair in due time so I'd pretty much think you're much happier WITHOUT her than even thinking of trying an R.


ETA: I'd think a lot of MEN who took their WW, multiple partner AP's back would be happier themselves if they'd taken your route. 

Sounds like your trust in her Lucas was so broken that it woke you up. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> You do realize form what you have described when D comes she is going to flip out...


I have considered many times that when she actually gets served papers I may wind up a story on the evening news. I'm joking...but then again, maybe not. She is not the person I knew for so many years. She's nuts now. "Midlife crisis" turned her into a different person.

We sleep in separate rooms. At some point I may reinforce my bedroom door and put a better lock on it. She has a history of getting what she wants. She has always gotten what she wanted her whole life. The boyfriends she wanted. The jobs she wanted. The husband she wanted. The AP's she wanted....

When she realizes that she can't have me anymore and divorce papers are staring her in the face, I can't honestly say what her reaction will be.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LucasJackson said:


> I have considered many times that when she actually gets served papers I may wind up a story on the evening news. I'm joking...but then again, maybe not. She is not the person I knew for so many years. She's nuts now. "Midlife crisis" turned her into a different person.
> 
> We sleep in separate rooms. At some point I may reinforce my bedroom door and put a better lock on it. She has a history of getting what she wants. She has always gotten what she wanted her whole life. The boyfriends she wanted. The jobs she wanted. The husband she wanted. The AP's she wanted....
> 
> When she realizes that she can't have me anymore and divorce papers are staring her in the face, I can't honestly say what her reaction will be.


Maybe arrange to be away from home -- w/ the kids -- when she's served.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LucasJackson said:


> I have considered many times that when she actually gets served papers I may wind up a story on the evening news. I'm joking...but then again, maybe not. She is not the person I knew for so many years. She's nuts now. "Midlife crisis" turned her into a different person.
> 
> We sleep in separate rooms. At some point I may reinforce my bedroom door and put a better lock on it. She has a history of getting what she wants. She has always gotten what she wanted her whole life. The boyfriends she wanted. The jobs she wanted. The husband she wanted. The AP's she wanted....
> 
> When she realizes that she can't have me anymore and divorce papers are staring her in the face, I can't honestly say what her reaction will be.


She sounds nutty to me...you are sleeping in separate bedrooms, no sex and you TOLD her you two are divorcing..and she still has hope? Seriously, has she gone mad?


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Festivus said:


> For you, and for some. But not for all. I don't begrudge you your position on this, because it is your reality, and I have no right to discredit it.
> 
> But a marriage can be the sum of many more things than sexual exclusivity. I'm not even talking about open marriages. Finding someone who supports you, listens to you, likes your company, who is prepared and even willing to live with your particular brand of lunacy all goes into the punch bowl.
> 
> ...


I had the spouse that was broken by her past so was ill equipped to love a man. Some would even say she used me to punish her father because she couldn't get to him. Dunno , can't say,and no longer care however I can tell you her affair was NO accident. It was a systematic derailing of our marriage by lying, deceit, endangering our kids, cheating. It is a very willful act to cheat same as rob a bank. No accidents just intentional wrong doing. 

So while we can understand that maybe some of them were not whole people to begin with we also must hold them accountable and not give them a free pass to call it an accident , or They were hurt in the past, or it was the alcohol, insert excuse here........


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

LucasJackson said:


> I have considered many times that when she actually gets served papers I may wind up a story on the evening news. I'm joking...but then again, maybe not. She is not the person I knew for so many years. She's nuts now. "Midlife crisis" turned her into a different person.
> 
> We sleep in separate rooms. At some point I may reinforce my bedroom door and put a better lock on it. She has a history of getting what she wants. She has always gotten what she wanted her whole life. The boyfriends she wanted. The jobs she wanted. The husband she wanted. The AP's she wanted....
> 
> When she realizes that she can't have me anymore and divorce papers are staring her in the face, I can't honestly say what her reaction will be.


This is entirely possible. Its very interesting when we realize who the real person is that we married. I don't know if they were hiding the "real them" then entire time, or what it is. Maybe it is a midlife crisis. Who knows. The fact is that we are surprised when everything changes all of a sudden. I totally get how you feel.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> This is entirely possible. Its very interesting when we realize who the real person is that we married. I don't know if they were hiding the "real them" then entire time, or what it is. Maybe it is a midlife crisis. Who knows. The fact is that we are surprised when everything changes all of a sudden. I totally get how you feel.


Especially with kids involved..how cheaters can destroy their own families and their kids security...its awful...


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> @weltschmerz : An older and remembered quote:
> ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> Indeed, I could go into great detail about my vision although I'm afraid my imagery would be hardly as vivid. Cheers.
> ...



Let's not forget the old saying: A friend in need is a pain in the ass.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

jld said:


> I think not looking at your own hand in your marital troubles makes you look weak.


What does that have to do with cheating?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> So while we can understand that maybe some of them were not whole people to begin with we also must hold them accountable and not give them a free pass to call it an accident , or They were hurt in the past, or it was the alcohol, insert excuse here........


I do not use the word mistake to imply any lessening of guilt or responsibility. Mistake implies awareness and choice, for something cannot be a mistake if one has no choice or agency in the matter. I use it as a shorthand for making a wrong decision. I use the word "accident" when I mean to imply no fault.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Maxo said:


> What does that have to do with cheating?


I realize it's not _en vogue_ to allow even the smallest of blame to land on the shoulders of the betrayed spouse, but affairs don't happen in a vacuum. You cannot have an affair without having a marriage, which is first and foremost a binary system. 

Now before everyone starts spraying spittle all over the monitor, I never said that an affair is justified - only that understanding any part you may have played in steering your marriage that direction, *if any*, is knowledge worth having. An abusive, or controlling, or drunk, or asexual spouse plays a part in creating the conditions under which an affair is more likely to happen. 

When a driver not wearing a seatbelt in an auto accident which he did not cause is thrown through the windshield, we assign some of the blame to his lack of preparedness and foresight.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Festivus said:


> I do not use the word mistake to imply any lessening of guilt or responsibility. Mistake implies awareness and choice, for something cannot be a mistake if one has no choice or agency in the matter. I use it as a shorthand for making a wrong decision. I use the word "accident" when I mean to imply no fault.


I think many cheaters do not view it as a mistake,and relish the experience,but have to adopt the mistake-remorse posture in order to avoid consequences, as much as possible.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Maxo said:


> I think many cheaters do not view it as a mistake,but relish the experience,but have to adopt the mistake-remorse posture in order to avoid consequences, as much as possible.


Without data, I wouldn't hazard a guess. I imagine there are as many feelings about cheating as there are cheaters to question.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Festivus said:


> Without data, I wouldn't hazard a guess. I imagine there are as many feelings about cheating as there are cheaters to question.


JMHO, although I would think there is a lot of overlap among the feelings such that it is not as individualized as that.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Festivus said:


> I do not use the word mistake to imply any lessening of guilt or responsibility. Mistake implies awareness and choice, for something cannot be a mistake if one has no choice or agency in the matter. I use it as a shorthand for making a wrong decision. I use the word "accident" when I mean to imply no fault.


Fair enough we just define the word, or least apply the word, mistake very differently. I view mistake and accident the same as no intention of wrong doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> She sounds nutty to me...you are sleeping in separate bedrooms, no sex and you TOLD her you two are divorcing..and she still has hope? Seriously, has she gone mad?


It's sort of like the exact opposite of what we usually see.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> It's sort of like the exact opposite of what we usually see.


He said she always got what she wanted well someone is going to have their streak broken..oh its not going to be pretty...or it could go th eother way once the divorce is final she goes even crazier....she is nuts...


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Festivus said:


> I realize it's not _en vogue_ to allow even the smallest of blame to land on the shoulders of the betrayed spouse, but *affairs don't happen in a vacuum.* You cannot have an affair without having a marriage, which is first and foremost a binary system.
> 
> Now before everyone starts spraying spittle all over the monitor, I never said that an affair is justified - only that understanding any part you may have played in steering your marriage that direction, *if any*, is knowledge worth having. An abusive, or controlling, or drunk, or asexual spouse plays a part in creating the conditions under which an affair is more likely to happen.
> 
> When a driver not wearing a seatbelt in an auto accident which he did not cause is thrown through the windshield, we assign some of the blame to his lack of preparedness and foresight.


Many do.

Take, for example, your typical MLC-driven affair as described by @LucasJackson right here in this thread.

What might he -- or @LostCPA, or @SomedayDig, or @Malcolm38, or any of the countless other BH's (can't remember the name of the EMT BH that died... his WW was posting over at SI or LS, I think) whose marriages have fallen prey to this vacuum-less phenomenon -- have done to ward it off?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

I think the whole cvckold thing gets taken out of context, I believe it's usually meant for a husband that knowingly tolerates his wife with other men.... However there seems to be a desperate attempt (mostly by us men ourselves) to assign a classificatory slang to BHs, when in fact there isn't any per say, you were just betrayed plain and simple, ain't that nuff?!?! 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I think the whole cvckold thing gets taken out of context, I believe it's usually meant for a husband that knowingly tolerates his wife with other men.... However there seems to be a desperate attempt (mostly by us men ourselves) to assign a classificatory slang to BHs, when in fact there isn't any per say, you were just betrayed plain and simple, ain't that nuff?!?!
> 
> Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


Agreed 100% but men will always push and cajole other men if they deem they are acting in a cowardly manner...sometimes its healthy sometimes its not...if for example the guy was sitting home crying and his wife was cheating and his friend called him a cvck to get him to act I get that but not under these circumstances...


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Many do.
> 
> Take, for example, your typical MLC-driven affair as described by @LucasJackson right here in this thread.
> 
> ...


There are a lot of BSs in that category...some willingly accept their WS blameshifting to make it seem like the affair was partly their fault...


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Many do.
> 
> Take, for example, your typical MLC-driven affair as described by @LucasJackson right here in this thread.
> 
> ...


Perhaps nothing. There is no one-size-fits-all prescription. Maybe it's not even a stretch to say that only a small minority of betrayed spouses should assume some guilt in the matter. 

But I reject out of hand the notion that a BS is never partly to blame for an affair. Life is rarely that simple nor binary.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> There are a lot of BSs in that category...some willingly accept their WS blameshifting to make it seem like the affair was partly their fault...


Is it ever, in your opinion?


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Festivus said:


> Is it ever, in your opinion?


No.....


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Festivus said:


> Perhaps nothing. There is no one-size-fits-all prescription. Maybe it's not even a stretch to say that only a small minority of betrayed spouses should assume some guilt in the matter.
> 
> But I reject out of hand the notion that a BS is never partly to blame for an affair. Life is rarely that simple nor binary.


While its true that many (I'll stop just short of saying "most") BS's do indeed contribute -- whether knowingly or otherwise -- to the type of marital environment in which his or her WS could conceivably engage in an affair, that falls far short of the assertion that he or she is in any way responsible or _to blame_ for the affair itself.

You seem to be well-reasoned, so I have to ask...

Do you really not see the distinction?


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

Question for Festivus that I'm also quite interested to know the answer to:


Truthseeker1 said:


> Tell me have you ever been the victim or perpetrator of infidelity?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> No.....


Then we're not going to have a lot of common ground on this one.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

drifter777 said:


> Question for Festivus that I'm also quite interested to know the answer to:


I have experience, the details of which I am not interested in discussing here. I prefer to discuss generalities and concepts rather than personal details.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> While its true that many (I'll stop just short of saying "most") BS's do indeed contribute -- whether knowingly or otherwise -- to the type of marital environment in which his or her WS could conceivably engage in an affair, that falls far short of the assertion that he or she is in any way responsible or _to blame_ for the affair itself.
> 
> You seem to be well-reasoned, so I have to ask...
> 
> Do you really not see the distinction?


I see the distinction and I reject it.

I understand why, given the tactics that many WS use to justify their actions, we want to be clear about placing the blame for an affair squarely where it belongs. Most of the time that will be almost completely with the WS. 

But not always, as an a priori assertion, does the BS assume no responsibility whatsoever, which seems to be the preferred opinion hereabouts. If I come home and beat my wife every weekday, I'm sure-as-you're-born partly responsible for the day she blows my head off. 

Such a spouse _should_ leave instead of betray, and no BS holds a gun to their partner to make them have an affair. But responsibility, like everything in life, is often not all-or-nothing, black-and-white, all one thing or another.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Festivus said:


> Then we're not going to have a lot of common ground on this one.


Zero ground...the affair is 100% on the cheater...period...


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Festivus said:


> I see the distinction and I reject it.
> 
> I understand why, given the tactics that many WS use to justify their actions, we want to be clear about placing the blame for an affair squarely where it belongs. Most of the time that will be almost completely with the WS.
> 
> ...


Hold up.

Overt abuse -- especially prolonged emotional or physical abuse -- is a different dynamic altogether and irrevocably warps things.

Absent that (or something very, very similar to it), your argument doesn't really have a leg to stand on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Hold up.
> 
> Overt abuse -- especially prolonged emotional or physical abuse -- is a different dynamic altogether and irrevocably warps things.
> 
> ...


Then I guess I should just shut the hell up, as I've apparently lost the argument by fiat. 

Let's try this angle.

Can a spouse, far short of actual abuse, set up the conditions under which a marriage should end in divorce? I suspect we can both agree to this.

So the only difference, and the one that apparently absolves the BS of any and all responsibility whatsoever, is that the WS, instead of doing the right thing and acting with complete integrity, has an affair instead. And in that one act completely eliminates any responsibility the BS might have contributing to the outcome?

That's absurd and reductionist in the extreme. That's like farting in the car (or the plane, or the train) with the windows rolled up and claiming that the choice to breathe is all on you.


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

If I were a wife and my husband knowingly beat me in any way, shape or form....all bets are off in my opinion, you are no longer my spouse and at that point having a relationship with someone else wouldn't even be an affair, heck I'll do it with u knowing... Lol


Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Festivus said:


> eliminates any responsibility the BS might have contributing to the outcome?


I think that's the key point, doesn't eliminate responsibility of the damage to the union, but the affair is a selective responsibility all 100% on the CS


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

The weak one is the BS who abandons the marriage at the first sign of trouble. The strong spouse is the one who can work thru a reconciliation to come out better than before!


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Here is another dynamic from a close to home infidelity event I recently became aware of.... To keep it simple, your wife literally saved your life 5 years ago, you suffered an in home cardiac arrest and your wife performed CPR on you, and was able to resusite you before emergency services arrived, thus not only saving your life but preventing critical brain damage. 
Fast forward to today said wife has a 2 month affair EA/PA...is caught and regretful.... What do you do? 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I think that's the key point, doesn't eliminate responsibility of the damage to the union, but the affair is a selective responsibility all 100% on the CS


Hard to argue with this - how a spouse reacts to the reality of his marriage is 100%, totally, without question his responsibility, for that narrow definition of the word "responsibility". 

But since I take a very systems-oriented view of marriage, I think the term responsibility here has to mean more than just the singular point in time where the WS decides to cheat or not to cheat.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Here is another dynamic from a close to home infidelity event I recently became aware of.... To keep it simple, your wife literally saved your life 5 years ago, you suffered an in home cardiac arrest and your wife performed CPR on you, and was able to resusite you before emergency services arrived, thus not only saving your life but preventing critical brain damage.
> Fast forward to today said wife has a 2 month affair EA/PA...is caught and regretful.... What do you do?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


Take better care of myself and make her win me back > Her saving my life doesnt give her a pass to shag another guy...and gratutude is not a reasont o stay in a marriage...

How did this situation end the real life incident? I'm assuming the BH sayed...


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Marriages don't happen in a vacuum, all parties play a part, even in abuse situations. Is an abused spouse to blame for staying when they can leave? Partially.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Festivus said:


> Then I guess I should just shut the hell up, as I've apparently lost the argument by fiat.
> 
> Let's try this angle.
> 
> Can a spouse, far short of actual abuse, set up the conditions under which a marriage should end in divorce? I suspect we can both agree to this.


Yes, absolutely.



Festivus said:


> So the only difference, and the one that apparently absolves the BS of any and all responsibility whatsoever, is that the WS, instead of doing the right thing and acting with complete integrity, has an affair instead. And in that one act completely eliminates any responsibility the BS might have contributing to the outcome?


Each spouse is responsible for his or her role in the creation and perpetuation of any pre-affair dysfunction; responsibility for the affair itself, however, lies solely w/ the wayward.



Festivus said:


> That's absurd and reductionist in the extreme. That's like farting in the car (or the plane, or the train) with the windows rolled up and claiming that the choice to breathe is all on you.


LOL. Not quite.

Season it up however you like, Frank... bad meat is still bad meat. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

I think everyone is arguing their point based on their own personal experiences. It is perfectly ok for us to disagree on this. Not everyone is the same, and all of our past situations have been a little different.

I do agree that both spouses play a part in the end of a marriage. But, cheating or not cheating is an individual choice we all make.


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I'm assuming the BH sayed...


I dont know that detail yet to be honest....


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I dont know that detail yet to be honest....


She goes from Florence Nightingale to Desperate Housewives...SMH


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

Festivus said:


> I have experience, the details of which I am not interested in discussing here. I prefer to discuss generalities and concepts rather than personal details.


For me it's all about personal details and all of us benefiting from a shared experience.


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

it-guy said:


> I think everyone is arguing their point based on their own personal experiences.


I think this is true, I am thinking on opening a new thread on this topic because honestly, I mean, does infidelity decision-making advice really matter and from internet based forums nonetheless? I am not making a point, I simply dont know the answer, is there any even?

Do we each carry our own personal agenda? and is driving any decision point of view really just as equal as debating a decision whether one should prefer eating apples over say, strawberries?


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

Yeah, lots of guys will think you are weak and a coward for staying with a WW. I would. And I am one of the guys who stayed with my cheating wife. My reasons all boiled down to my fear of facing life without my family. I couldn't bear the thought of being alone and starting over. The sickest part of this is that I was young (25) and had all the time in the world to start over. I consider myself a coward and will never forgive myself for sweeping it under the rug and trying to move forward hoping that time would heal my wound. 

Before people say "you can still leave now" you need to understand that we rescued our grandson from a horrible environment and we won custody and are his legal guardians. He needs me and I will not add any more trauma to this boy.


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I think this is true, I am thinking on opening a new thread on this topic because honestly, I mean, does infidelity decision-making advice really matter and from internet based forums nonetheless? I am not making a point, I simply dont know the answer, is there any even?
> 
> Do we each carry our own personal agenda? and is driving any decision point of view really just as equal as debating a decision whether one should prefer eating apples over say, strawberries?


I agree. I don't think this is an argument anyone can win. And its ok with me. Basically we all have to make these types of decisions on our own. 

But back to the thread topic.... lets just say that I am a bitter jaded person who would have given the same advice as the friend


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I think this is true, I am thinking on opening a new thread on this topic because honestly, I mean, does infidelity decision-making advice really matter and from internet based forums nonetheless? I am not making a point, I simply dont know the answer, is there any even?
> 
> Do we each carry our own personal agenda? and is driving any decision point of view really just as equal as debating a decision whether one should prefer eating apples over say, strawberries?


Each of us sees this issue through the filter of our personal experience with infidelity. Isn't this what we do here? Isn't this why any of post? 

I don't want someone telling me my personal experiences are not valid unless that person is a BH. We have a shared experience and can have a productive debate. Anyone else? Meh...


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

drifter777 said:


> Each of us sees this issue through the filter of our personal experience with infidelity. Isn't this what we do here? Isn't this why any of post?
> 
> I don't want someone telling me my personal experiences are not valid unless that person is a BH. We have a shared experience and can have a productive debate. Anyone else? Meh..,


Drifter, I understand why you stayed. I worried about the same things you described. I am curious though..... are you reasonably happy? I know stuff is not perfect. I don't see how it could be. But you know.... is it reasonable?


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

it-guy said:


> But back to the thread topic.... lets just say that I am a bitter jaded person who would have given the same advice as the friend


I don't think I have any friends that would call me a cvckold under such situations, we are all grown men and professionals with management careers, that would be kinda childish I think.... Not saying that is better than others, just maybe a different social circle....it would be like if I called them losers or idiots for not saving for retirement or something like that.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

it-guy said:


> I would have given the same advice as the friend. That comes from my own personal experience. And, the friend may have had something similar happen in his own experiences.
> Had I stayed with my ex-wife I would consider myself to be a cuckold.


Just took a quick turn through your threads and, at last update (at least as far as what's in your threads), you were in the process of reconciling following what you'd described as a "EA/mild PA" on your ex's behalf... what happened?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifter777 said:


> Yeah, lots of guys will think you are weak and a coward for staying with a WW. I would. And I am one of the guys who stayed with my cheating wife. My reasons all boiled down to my fear of facing life without my family. I couldn't bear the thought of being alone and starting over. The sickest part of this is that I was young (25) and had all the time in the world to start over. I consider myself a coward and will never forgive myself for sweeping it under the rug and trying to move forward hoping that time would heal my wound.
> 
> Before people say "you can still leave now" you need to understand that we rescued our grandson from a horrible environment and we won custody and are his legal guardians. He needs me and I will not add any more trauma to this boy.


How long was your wifes affair? Was she remorseful? You dont have to split up but you can still get MC....


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I don't think I have any friends that would call me a cvckold under such situations, we are all grown men and professionals with management careers, that would be kinda childish I think.... Not saying that is better than others, just maybe a different social circle....it would be like if I called them losers or idiots for not saving for retirement or something like that.


Strictly speaking, a cuckold is a man that is unaware of his wife's affair(s) and, a result, may even be raising another man's child (or other men's children).

A wittol, on the other hand, is a man that is fully aware of his wife's affair(s), and may even have a hand in arranging it/them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

drifter777 said:


> Yeah, lots of guys will think you are weak and a coward for staying with a WW


And they are the moral judges of my weakness and cowardly behavior because??? Are they funding some charity for BHs that leave or something like that which am missing out on? Are they going to partake with me on the outcome of either decision


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Strictly speaking, a cuckold is a man that is unaware of his wife's affair(s) and, a result, may even be raising another man's child (or other men's children).
> 
> A wittol, on the other hand, is a man that is fully aware of his wife's affair(s), and may even have a hand in arranging it/them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


By whose official definition Gus? I have read so many is almost a joke really....I think even by your definition you are only a cvckold while the affair is happening, not after.... But who really knows. Is the CW a mistress also during the affair or forever?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CantBelieveThis said:


> By whose official definition Gus? I have read so many is almost a joke really....I think even by your definition you are only a cvckold while the affair is happening, not after.... But who really knows. Is the CW a mistress also during the affair or forever?


Until the affair has been brought to light and reconciled then yes -- forever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Just took a quick turn through your threads and, at last update (at least as far as what's in your threads), you were in the process of reconciling following what you'd described as a "EA/mild PA" on your ex's behalf... what happened?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I got worse and worse as time went on. I was not able to handle the affair long term, even though I was honestly trying. I was losing my mind. Horribly emotional. Drinking myself to sleep….ect. It escalated as time went on. My behavior ultimately triggered a separation 11 months out from D-Day.

Within 3 days of separation my ex started communicating with her AP again. She then added a bunch of new guys. And she has been doing the same thing ever since. It never stopped. 
I kept crying and trying for another year or so…..lol I was a wreck. But I started working on myself. This all began November 12th 2010.

In 2013 I was in a much better place. I had toughed it out and started feeling better. I started dating my current fiancé during that time. I started the divorce process and was officially divorced in late 2014. Today I am very happy.

But, this has all taught me a great deal. And I have learned a great deal about myself. I don’t think I could ever hurt that bad for that long ever again. I believe that part of me is now broken. But I have a 0 tolerance policy for infidelity now.


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

it-guy said:


> Within 3 days of separation my ex started communicating with her AP again. She then added a bunch of new guys. And she has been doing the same thing ever since. It never stopped.


you see thats the kind crap right there i would strongly advice leaving and not looking back....thats a serial cheater, thats a mental problem, a disease or whatever...but I dont know, some people still might have valid reason to stay even thru that, who knows, life sucks sometimes, could be one of your kids that could also end up fvcked up and then what, you wouldnt abandon them, some parents do, bah,..sh1t am tired and rambling, I need to put the drinks down and go to bed...its been a long day got my daughter a new 2015 $40k car she totalled it this morning not even a month....she is fine..


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

it-guy said:


> I got worse and worse as time went on. I was not able to handle the affair long term, even though I was honestly trying. I was losing my mind. Horribly emotional. Drinking myself to sleep….ect. It escalated as time went on. My behavior ultimately triggered a separation 11 months out from D-Day.
> 
> Within 3 days of separation my ex started communicating with her AP again. She then added a bunch of new guys. And she has been doing the same thing ever since. It never stopped.
> I kept crying and trying for another year or so…..lol I was a wreck. But I started working on myself. This all began November 12th 2010.
> ...


Wow... three whole days?

That's one committed spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> you see thats the kind crap right there i would strongly advice leaving and not looking back....thats a serial cheater, thats a mental problem, a disease or whatever...but I dont know, some people still might have valid reason to stay even thru that, who knows, life sucks sometimes, could be one of your kids that could also end up fvcked up and then what, you wouldnt abandon them, some parents do, bah,..sh1t am tired and rambling, I need to put the drinks down and go to bed...its been a long day got my daughter a new 2015 $40k car she totalled it this morning not even a month....she is fine..


Glad your daughter is ok..just read osme of your threads and wow...how is your R going? Still considering divorce? Remember it never has to be off the table espeically when the kids grow up...


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> Wow... three whole days?
> 
> That's one committed spouse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep. So much for all the reconciliation talk after D-day. I found out really quickly that all of it was a lie. She just didn't want to lose the lifestyle that she had. 

In the end I think it all worked out as it should have. My only regret is not ending the relationship on D-day. I tortured myself emotionally for far too long. But that is how we learn life’s hardest lessons I guess. And I sure had a lot to learn.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

it-guy said:


> Yep. So much for all the reconciliation talk after D-day. I found out really quickly that all of it was a lie. She just didn't want to lose the lifestyle that she had.
> 
> In the end I think it all worked out as it should have. My only regret is not ending the relationship on D-day. I tortured myself emotionally for far too long. But that is how we learn life’s hardest lessons I guess. And I sure had a lot to learn.


The point is you did learn and moved on...that is an accomplishment


----------



## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> The point is you did learn and moved on...that is an accomplishment


Very much so. This all makes me appreciate the important things in life so much more. I am very thankful for what I have. And I am sure I am a better person, partner, and father than I have ever been. And I always will be.

I will never let it all be for nothing!

So even the bitter guy can find a silver lining in it all. :smile2:


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> And they are the moral judges of my weakness and cowardly behavior because???


Yes, they are judging you. Why? Because that's how life works.

You don't have to like or accept my opinion. It's just the way I see life. Your male friends and family will absolutely judge you if they know you are a BH and stayed with the cheater. And that judgement will rarely be "oh, he's so strong".


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

CantBelieveThis said:


> you see thats the kind crap right there i would strongly advice leaving and not looking back....thats a serial cheater, thats a mental problem, a disease or whatever...but I dont know, some people still might have valid reason to stay even thru that, who knows, life sucks sometimes, could be one of your kids that could also end up fvcked up and then what, you wouldnt abandon them, some parents do, bah,..sh1t am tired and rambling, I need to put the drinks down and go to bed...its been a long day got my daughter a new 2015 $40k car she totalled it this morning not even a month....she is fine..


It's not a disease. It is simply a person who, for selfish reasons, decides to throw her morals and belief systems out the window for a few cheap orgasms. She gave up on her better self and gave in to her base desires. It's a choice we all are faced with at some points in our lives. 

The Bible describes sin as a dog puking and then returning to eat his own vomit, and that is the way it is for morally bankrupt people like this.


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> It's not a disease. It is simply a person who, for selfish reasons, decides to throw her morals and belief systems out the window for a few cheap orgasms. She gave up on her better self and gave in to her base desires. It's a choice we all are faced with at some points in our lives.
> 
> The Bible describes sin as a dog puking and then returning to eat his own vomit, and that is the way it is for morally bankrupt people like this.


It is a serious character flaw...even after R can it ever be the same after they betray you in such a vile and depraved way? And in the case of a LTA - repeatedly...


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

drifter777 said:


> Yes, they are judging you. Why? Because that's how life works.
> 
> You don't have to like or accept my opinion. It's just the way I see life. Your male friends and family will absolutely judge you if they know you are a BH and stayed with the cheater. And that judgement will rarely be "oh, he's so strong".


Without some explicit authority or direct impact over my life then their self defined judgement falls on deaf ears to me, is not even a matter of liking or accepting at that point, is just simply ignored.

but I like you drifter, I really do listen to your posts and understand how you feel, you been thru a lot it seems, honestly I do pay attention to what you say, but you are making a lot of presumptions about how my male family and friends act or think, I have dirt on them too and many of them owe me favors for saving their @ss with financial help.... Am I going to worry about whatever thoughts go thru their head about me? Not think so


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CantBelieveThis said:


> And they are the moral judges of my weakness and cowardly behavior because??? Are they funding some charity for BHs that leave or something like that which am missing out on? Are they going to partake with me on the outcome of either decision


Slow your roll, CBT. If you're honest w/ yourself, you'll admit that there was a time (probably at least a decade or so ago, long before infidelity showed up on your own personal radar) in your life in which you viewed men that had chosen to reconcile w/ their wayward wives very similarly. It is, after all, it's a commonly-held view that, for a married woman to cheat on her husband, he must not be measuring up in some very significant ways. So, if you accept that, it follows that, when that guy chooses to reconcile, he does so in meek acceptance of that horridly-misinformed notion, and (quite possibly) out of fear that he'll lose his wife, and possibly never find another.

As you well know, though, none of that allows for the man that draws his line in the sand and says, "I'm willing -- for the sake of our children and the life that we've built together -- to forgive this, but it ends now; do this again and you might as well get very comfortable w/ the curb at the end of the driveway."

You know which man you are, and you know why you chose to reconcile, so concentrate on that, and separate the signal from the noise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

You are a good man Gus!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CantBelieveThis said:


> You are a good man Gus!


Shhhh...

Don't tell anyone.

I kind of like the "unrepentant assh*le" vibe that I've got going.

:smthumbup:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Without some explicit authority or direct impact over my life then their self defined judgement falls on deaf ears to me, is not even a matter of liking or accepting at that point, is just simply ignored.


Then you, my friend, have tremendous self-esteem. The overwhelming majority of men do not have the self-esteem to ignore the opinions of friends and family that they love and respect. 

Nearly everything I post is an opinion I've formed after 40 years of adult life. Over this time I've dealt with my own cheating wife and the infidelity issues of many friends and family. The key phrase here is "my opinion" and I never try to change anyone's mind on these matters. My goal is always to make a BH aware that rugsweeping, cheap forgiveness, and "sticking it out for the kids" are usually not the best or only choices he has. 

I've found that most guys will try to reconcile soon after d-day because they feel like they are drowning in a river of sh!t and they desperately need an emergency lifeboat. He needs to grab on to the familiar, safe life he was leading to try to regain his emotional bearings. And we all know how badly he wants to believe that time will heal his wound. But at some point in his life the burden becomes too heavy and he is forced to face the inescapable truth that his wife had sex with another man and that he can no longer keep this locked in a compartment in his mind. 


CantBelieveThis said:


> but I like you drifter, I really do listen to your posts and understand how you feel, you been thru a lot it seems, honestly I do pay attention to what you say, but you are making a lot of presumptions about how my male family and friends act or think, I have dirt on them too and many of them owe me favors for saving their @ss with financial help.... Am I going to worry about whatever thoughts go thru their head about me? Not think so


Yes, my opinions do make assumptions about the male family and friends of a BH. I do, however, stand by them as general facts. In my opinion a man as secure as you is an outlier. Most BH's simply do not possess your level of self-esteem.


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

I cant disagree with you, I too regret rushing to reconcile at first and should have immediately and filed for D upon discovery, but I didn't. In fact my advice to any BS now would be to file for D when A is discovered, even if it's not finalized, I think the strong N clear message is to be delivered quickly and there really is no other way, trying to nice back a cheaper doesn't work. 

I don't see myself as having tremendous self-esteem thou, I just usually try to let things that I cant control not bother me too much. I manage a staff of 100+ engineers worldwide in a large US Corp.... People talk crap about me all the time every now and then.... I have to manage to it w/o it affecting me too much emotionally or I'll lose it. 

Back to the topic I quote what the 3 close male friends of mine told me when I told them about my W affair.... 
"stay for the kids man, they don't deserve what they will go thru, try to make it work, at least give it a shot, so you can say you tried at least"

"I don't know if I could stay with her after that, but I am not where you are at either, is your call"

"What the hell was she thinking?? I don't care what you decide, I just want to be there for you, not so much for her"



Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

CantBelieveThis said:


> I cant disagree with you, I too regret rushing to reconcile at first and should have immediately and filed for D upon discovery, but I didn't. In fact my advice to any BS now would be to file for D when A is discovered, even if it's not finalized, I think the strong N clear message is to be delivered quickly and there really is no other way, trying to nice back a cheaper doesn't work.


Agreed. We know this is by far the best way to proceed whether it ends in divorce or not but BH so rarely do it. I understand why and I'm sure you do as well. They are stunned and in a state of shock. A blow like this is so traumatic that I actually think he should stay with the intent to make it work - at least for a couple days. Yes, this can lead to BH rugsweeping but there is usually enough trickle-truth or just plain realization of what the hell happened to snap him to his senses within a few days. At that point he needs to go 180 - complete with divorce papers served. Take the emotional high ground with positive action and you begin to stop feeling like a whipped puppy. 


CantBelieveThis said:


> I don't see myself as having tremendous self-esteem thou, I just usually try to let things that I cant control not bother me too much. I manage a staff of 100+ engineers worldwide in a large US Corp.... People talk crap about me all the time every now and then.... I have to manage to it w/o it affecting me too much emotionally or I'll lose it.


People with high self-esteem rarely realize they have high self-esteem. This comes directly from having high self-esteem.



CantBelieveThis said:


> Back to the topic I quote what the 3 close male friends of mine told me when I told them about my W affair....
> "stay for the kids man, they don't deserve what they will go thru, try to make it work, at least give it a shot, so you can say you tried at least"
> 
> "I don't know if I could stay with her after that, but I am not where you are at either, is your call"
> ...


All good advice and honest opinions from guys you obviously respect. Your lucky to have such friends. More than that though is that you were willing to share with these guys. I was too ashamed of her for what she did and of me for marrying a POS to tell anyone. Then a few weeks later when I agreed to come home and give her another chance I felt the deepest shame imaginable. I knew I was a sniveling coward for staying but I was just too terrified of trying to live without my family. Stupid, stupid, stupid. If there was an Internet with forums like this back then I think I could have been saved. Maybe even if I would have shared with a few trusted friends I would have learned that I would be just fine on my own. That you can be a great father without having to live with their mother. They would have known my propensity to "make things work" and helped steer me toward reality instead of only seeing the fear my mind made up. 

Wow - haven't opened up like that for a while. Bottom line is that if I could change one thing it would have been to NOT come home right away once I knew she wanted me back. Once I was back she began gaslighting the hell out of me and I wanted to believe so sucked it up like a fool. Once the situation changed to her begging me to come home I should have spent more time alone - away from her manipulation - to think things through. I don't think I'd be nearly as regretful had I spent a week or two away from her - pondering the decision. Whether I would have decided to come home or divorce, I could own the decision as just that - a decision - rather than a reflex reaction while I was in a state of traumatic shock. 

Probably more information than you wanted but sometimes this sh!t just boils over.


----------



## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

drifter777 said:


> I was too ashamed of her for what she did and of me for marrying a POS to tell anyone.


I was just like this at first as well. My ex has since fallen WAY off the deepend and the whole thing makes me feel embarrassed to this day from time to time. It doesn't last long when it happens but it's still there. I'm embarrassed that that train wreck was ever in my life. But I got sole custody of my daughter and I'm teaching her that there is a better way...


----------



## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

drifter777 said:


> Probably more information than you wanted but sometimes this sh!t just boils over


Not at all, I 100% can relate to you as I was embarrassed too, what they did reflects on us, like we made a poor marriage partner selection, I was very ashamed at first and didn't want anyone to know, that lasted about a week, then I told the few friends and her parents. 
You are a good man drifter, infidelity is hardly ever handled as one wished in hindsight, we were betrayed after all, stabbed in the back by whom was suppose to be watching our back.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Truthseeker1 said:


> There are a lot of BSs in that category...some willingly accept their WS blameshifting to make it seem like the affair was partly their fault...


Festivus seems to me to be falling into one of the standard ways of thinking about mariage vows- that they are conditioned on a spouse being perfect. 
I think this way of thinking(that there must be some deficiency in the BS, and that said deficiency caused the cheating) is flawed for a couple of reasons.
First,our vows are unqualified as regards fidelity.
Second,no rational human being expects perfection in another.
It helps non betrayed folks to feel safe to think as Festivus does on this,just like it makes jldfeel better about her cheating.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Festivus said:


> Perhaps nothing. There is no one-size-fits-all prescription. Maybe it's not even a stretch to say that only a small minority of betrayed spouses should assume some guilt in the matter.
> 
> But I reject out of hand the notion that a BS is never partly to blame for an affair. Life is rarely that simple nor binary.


Where is the data you seem to want to rely on relative to other concepts for this conclusion?


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Festivus said:


> I see the distinction and I reject it.
> 
> I understand why, given the tactics that many WS use to justify their actions, we want to be clear about placing the blame for an affair squarely where it belongs. Most of the time that will be almost completely with the WS.
> 
> ...


In the physical abuse beating example,the distinction is that the beaten spouse may,realistically,have no other safe option to escape. Not so with cheating,unless you are going to concoct some extreme scenario.
Most BS have imperfections but very few seem to fall as short as you describe in assigning responsibility to them.
Of course one can concoct some extreme hypothetical where a BS has caused cheating. Say,holding a gun to a person's head.
But,reallistically,(although I have no data) , most B S play no role in the decision to cheat.IMO.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Maxo said:


> But,reallistically,(although I have no data) , most B S play no role in the decision to cheat.IMO.


Every single person posting to this forum in a sexless marriage has a spouse who has played just such a role, to use an all-too frequent example here. 

A spouse unwilling to engage in sexual relations has broken the marriage vows long before the other party cheats. You don't get to simultaneously say "You will be sexually exclusive with me" and then say "and I won't have sex with you". 

Of the three options available - suffer, bail, or cheat - cheating is not always necessarily the worst choice, nor is the spouse who succumbs to that temptation the Worst Kind of Human Imaginable ™.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

On a side note,I notice a trend when setting up an example of a physically abusive spouse causing problems, that the perpetrator is almost always male in the example.
I wonder why,when stats show females abuse just as frequently.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Festivus said:


> Every single person posting to this forum in a sexless marriage has a spouse who has played just such a role, to use an all-too frequent example here.
> 
> A spouse unwilling to engage in sexual relations has broken the marriage vows long before the other party cheats. You don't get to simultaneously say "You will be sexually exclusive with me" and then say "and I won't have sex with you".
> 
> Of the three options available - suffer, bail, or cheat - cheating is not always necessarily the worst choice, nor is the spouse who succumbs to that temptation the Worst Kind of Human Imaginable ™.


I see a couple problems with this.
First,IMO, it ignores the fact that divorce is simple,readily available and easy.
Second,it assumes that he cheater plays no role in the abstainer's decision to go sexless.
Where is the beginning of the responsibility?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Maxo said:


> On a side note,I notice a trend when setting up an example of a physically abusive spouse causing problems, that the perpetrator is almost always male in the example.
> I wonder why,when stats show females abuse just as frequently.


I was trained and still write with grammatically correct English, in which the *only* correct singular pronoun to use when the gender of the person described as unknown is "he".


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Maxo said:


> I see a couple problems with this.
> First,IMO, it ignores the fact that divorce is simple,readily available and easy.
> Second,it assumes that he cheater plays no role in the abstainer's decision to go sexless.
> Where is the beginning of the responsibility?


I'm not going to spend hours trying to get you to agree with me. You may view it your own way as you wish. But I will take the time to clarify a mischaracterization, like saying that I find marital vows to be conditional on perfection.

And by the way, I would point out the irony is saying that no BS can ever play a role in an affair while at the same time jumping immediately to the question of what role the WS played in making the marriage sexless.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Festivus said:


> I'm not going to spend hours trying to get you to agree with me. You may view it your own way as you wish. But I will take the time to clarify a mischaracterization, like saying that I find marital vows to be conditional on perfection.
> 
> And by the way, I would point out the irony is saying that no BS can ever play a role in an affair while at the same time jumping immediately to the question of what role the WS played in making the marriage sexless.


 Yes,we will not see eye to eye on this. I am sure you can live with that.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

Festivus said:


> I was trained and still write with grammatically correct English, in which the *only* correct singular pronoun to use when the gender of the person described as unknown is "he".


Maybe we ought to change that.


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How long was your wifes affair? Was she remorseful? You dont have to split up but you can still get MC....


You know, I'm not terribly fond of you, @Truthseeker1, and I know that the feeling is mutual, but when I read your response, here, I had to smile. It was genuine, heartfelt, and compassionate. And, I really like that. You accept that drifter777 is not going to divorce, but you just want him to be okay. That's nice.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

EI said:


> You know, I'm not terribly fond of you, @Truthseeker1, and I know that the feeling is mutual, but when I read your response, here, I had to smile. It was genuine, heartfelt, and compassionate. And, I really like that. You accept that drifter777 is not going to divorce, but you just want him to be okay. That's nice.


Well, I am fond of him( in the manly,man sense of the word,of course:smthumbup::redcard::birthday:


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Festivus said:


> I was trained and still write with grammatically correct English, in which the *only* correct singular pronoun to use when the gender of the person described as unknown is "he".


What's your take on Oxford commas? I dig 'em.

Either way, the very first time that you end a sentence w/ a preposition, I'm going to be all over it.

:lol: :rofl:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> What's your take on Oxford commas? I dig 'em.
> 
> Either way, the very first time that you end a sentence w/ a preposition, I'm going to be all over it.
> 
> ...


What for?


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> What's your take on Oxford commas? I dig 'em.
> 
> Either way, the very first time that you end a sentence w/ a preposition, I'm going to be all over it.
> 
> ...



_"Let's eat Grandma!"_

_"Let's eat, Grandma!"_

As you can see, Oxford commas have the potential to save lives!!! 

Yay for the Oxford comma. :yay:


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Maxo said:


> Well, I am fond of him( in the manly,man sense of the word,of course:smthumbup::redcard::birthday:


Who are you wishing a Happy Birthday?


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

EI said:


> Who are you wishing a Happy Birthday?


 Truthseeker,and you. Whenever you guys have birthdays,may they be happy.


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

EI said:


> _"Let's eat Grandma!"_
> 
> _"Let's eat, Grandma!"_
> 
> ...


Yeah,and if Granny is unhygenic,well,Lives may be at risk either way.:redcard::wtf:


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Maxo said:


> Truthseeker,and you. Whenever you guys have birthdays,may they be happy.


Mine is two days from now, so that kind of freaked me out a bit! :surprise:


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Maxo said:


> Yeah,and if Granny is unhygenic,well,Lives may be at risk either way.:redcard::wtf:


That was disgusting. What are you drinking tonight, @Maxo?


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

EI said:


> Mine is two days from now, so that kind of freaked me out a bit! :surprise:


 29?


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

EI said:


> That was disgusting. What are you drinking tonight, @Maxo?


Disgusting is my middle name.


----------



## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Maxo said:


> 29?


Yes, in fact I have been 29 every year since 1993, so I have just about got it down to a science.  This year may be a bit trickier, as our daughter will turn 29 (for the first time) in July. But, the way I see it, that is her problem, not mine!


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Maxo said:


> What for?











_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EI said:


> _"Let's eat Grandma!"_
> 
> _"Let's eat, Grandma!"_
> 
> ...





Maxo said:


> Yeah,and if Granny is unhygenic,well,Lives may be at risk either way.:redcard::wtf:











_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what you are talking about?


----------



## Maxo (Mar 8, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How ya doing,Eisenhower?


----------



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

EI said:


> You know, I'm not terribly fond of you, @Truthseeker1, and I know that the feeling is mutual, but when I read your response, here, I had to smile. It was genuine, heartfelt, and compassionate. And, I really like that. You accept that drifter777 is not going to divorce, but you just want him to be okay. That's nice.


There is the welfare of a child at stake and when that is the case the adults take a back seat. I just hope drifter can find happiness while raising his granchild..once the child is an adult he can feel free to dump his spouse if need be. >


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@blueinbr hi, do not know is anyone else provided the original meaning of the term madhatter but it refered to the makers of hats. The process released a large volume of fumes that over time would cause both physical and mental damage resulting in insanity. 

Back to page two.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> @Truthseeker1 *You seem obsessed with the topic of infidelity,* posting dozens of articles and polls. Which thread is YOUR story? I am interested to read it. :smile2:


You are aware that you posted your comment on a sub-section of a website called Talk About Marriage?

And that this sub-section is called Coping with Infidelity?

That's why people post on the topic of infidelity, here in CWI.


----------

