# Depressed after old argument



## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

This is EXCEPTIONALLY long and I apologize in advance .

I love my husband to death, I do, but an argument we had in the past before getting married completely destroyed every ounce of confidence I had in myself. It all started when he was going to meet my parents for the first time. Now as background, a few months before meeting my now husband, I had a "friend with benefits" (I never talked to him much outside the context of this arrangement so "friends" is too liberal a word) whose mother I had always been close with. That was a mouthful. She's a genuinely nice person and one of the few people I made an effort to connect with. Already, I'm sure you can see where this is going. So I mentioned that he may be meeting her as my family attends a relatively large gathering for both Christmas and New Years in which both she and possibly her son may be in attendance. Nothing terribly formal, but more of a "hey, this is the man I might be marrying" kind of thing. As you can imagine, that didn't go over well. He didn't speak to me for days and for some time, I was sure he decided he wasn't going to fly down to meet my parents, but he eventually did. After essentially begging him not to get into a fight with either the former FWB or his mother, he attended the function. However, during this time, he also refused to touch me and when I tried to, he would sweep my hands away. When he did manage to look at me, it made me feel sick. I've never had anyone look at me with as much disgust as he did those few days. That's not something you forget. How can you possibly love someone and be that disgusted by them?

We did eventually manage to get through this visit and somewhat made up. However, it remained an issue for months after we got married. He gave me an ultimatum- choose her or choose him. Clearly, I "chose" him, but it makes me feel so incredibly guilty because that required me to be awful to a woman who has literally done nothing wrong and who took the time to befriend me which is no easy task. I used to value my kindness and I feel like that no longer applies. My family is also very close with this woman and her husband and have asked me on a number of occasions to give her a call or invite her to dinner when I visit and wonder why I'm being so selfish by not reaching out to her. As someone who hates conflict and does not cope very well with it, this is an impossible situation to be in because I value the feelings of others and I either hurt my husband or I hurt this woman. When I explained this, his response was that she wouldn't like me at all if I knew what I did with her son, which might be true, but having it verbalized made me feel even worse about myself as though liking me as a person is contingent on an idea of me that doesn't exist.

However, this is just one aspect of this argument. The other is that he was so thoroughly disgusted by the idea of me having a FWB (though he has had FAR more sexual partners than I have). He pried in ways that were unhealthy, asking me specific positions, size comparisons, etc. I tried my best to explain that my past was my past and the intimate details of it was not important and quite frankly, none of his business. However, he grew more and more upset claiming that my not telling him more, I was saying I had feelings for this guy and demanded that I divulge for "his sake" as he claimed it made him feel better. I kept the details as light and nondescript as I could, but this only led to more questions. This continued for months, often times asking questions that had been answered numerous times before. He would say that I was being selfish to my parents for participating in the arrangement which is true, but there is a certain amount of selfishness and stupidity that youth affords. His words got more and more hurtful and it felt like walking on eggshells to avoid bringing anything up that could possibly relate back to the situation. It got to the point where he demanded the number of the FWB (which was task finding after I had long since deleted it) months after any kind of contact and threatened him. He would have apparently be "done" with the relationship if I hadn't supplied him with this information. Now the threat itself I feel was childish and unnecessary, however, I'm someone who has a great amount of pride and values the dignity of moving on. But by doing what he did, I feel as though he undermined that and gave a good amount of control to someone outside our marriage who really wasn't important to me. Essentially, after being completely unaware of the impact he was having on my marriage, the former FWB was made known of the enormous consternation he was causing. I don't like giving anyone who isn't important to me the satisfaction of even thinking they are and my pride was severely shot by that.

In the first 4 months of our marriage, he treated me awfully because of this. He eventually admitted this and apologized for his behavior. I forgave him, but after months of being berated over my past and made to feel irreparably damaged and unclean, I feel deeply ashamed of myself and have lost the self worth that I so effortlessly had before meeting him. I dread visiting my parents not just because I know there is a big possibility this will come up again, but also because maintaining my marriage (by ignoring the woman) also means being a person I don't like and don't recognize. Did I mention I hate conflicts? I used to be comfortable with my sexuality, but after months and months of exhaustively dissecting my (brief) sexual past, I feel completely disgusted by it and can no longer fully enjoy it. When he tells me he loves me, I feel that he's doing so in spite of me and not because of me. 

Before I'm misunderstood, I don't at all blame him for feeling the way he did. His actions could have been a lot more understanding, but it was a difficult situation to be in. I get that. But how do I get over this and reconcile my personality with his demands? How do I not feel completely worthless? Have any of you been in a similar situation?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your married to a highly immature person. He brags about his conquest, but he wants you virgin white. He has a lot of insecurities to work on, and the more you give into his immaturity, the more it validates his actions as correct.

I suggest getting some emotional distance and figuring if you want to stay married to someone who does not accept you at your present , but can only view you from the past.

It is understandable that you cut contact with your former fb. Me personally, my gf and I are okay with former lovers being friends. If she ever cheated on me, I would leave her in an instant, just like I left my fiance. My world and fulfillment is not contingent on a relationship.

You should work on your issues, become mentally stronger. Your behavior is help enabling his own, proving to himself that he is correct in what he is doing, bordering or perhaps you are in an emotional abusive relationship. Please do look up this issue. Your husband has major issues, perhaps to depths that you are not aware of.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

The mistake that you made was that you were not honest with your husband before you were married. You were someone's lover and worse yet, you socialized with your former lover and his mother. If you did not want to resurrect your past, you should not have attended this Christmas & New Year event knowing fully well that you will run into your former lover and his mother.

As you are now married, you should cut all ties to your former lover's mother. She is a trigger for your husband of past memories. Your husband has visions of his ideal wife and your scenario is not in this vision.

You both need to see a marriage counselor to sort out your feelings for each other. Your husband seems not able to get past your "friends with benefits" concept. For you, it has resulted in diminished self-esteem. You need professional help in your marriage. Make sure you see a licensed marriage counselor with credentials not just the church free consultation ones. Your marriage has deeper psychological implications.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Retroactive Jealousy, primitive.
Thought Projection, very primitive.

Is it possible your H has paranoid personality disorder?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Roselyn said:


> The mistake that you made was that you were not honest with your husband before you were married.


As the OP stated at the beginning of her post, the initial argument over all this started prior to marrying...


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Breeze: what I mean is that the OP was not honest with her husband that she wanted her FWB Mother to have a friendly relationship with her; hence, the son may be in this picture as well. Her narrative is vague in terms of spelling this out to her future husband.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Honestly OP, I wish you'd sought help prior to getting married. You would've been strongly advised by anyone with any sort of common sense not to proceed imo.

I had sex with men before DH, I even had a FWB. So did DH. We never discussed details about what happened between the sheets. We never asked each other those questions. Why? Neither of us cared. The only thing that matters is what happens between us.

Getting your self-confidence back will come with undoing some of the damage he has done. Part of that will require you to stand up for yourself, and come clean with your friend. You didn't do anything wrong. Having sex with a man without any ties is no big deal and the details should remain between you and him. There is nothing wrong with having a friendship with his mother. I think you should talk to her, tell her you had a sexual relationship with her son before you were in a relationship with your husband. I bet it wouldn't worry her at all.

Stop believing your DHs warped perception of you. Start questioning his right to even ask you questions about your past sex life. Some men here would disagree, but I will guarantee you that any man who is a man worth knowing would never demand this sort of detail. It's a sickness within him, not within you, that causes this sort of morbid curiosity.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm a man, very anxious and inquisitive man. I would want to know if my wife slept with any of her guy friends, I would make it clear that she is transparent concerning current and future communication with them, no planned one on one hanging out with them. But if she started telling me details, I'd cover my ears and scream "lalalala I don't wanna know!" Out the door.

Your hubs is fd up, that's some serious sick q and a.

I never had a fwb, but I had a few exes that dropped by unannounced in my "single and not looking days." None of them were attached as far as I knew. I know for certain they weren't married. Honestly, I don't think anybody carried any regrets.

You weren't married then, you aren't accountable to your future husband, and you shouldn't have to answer to him concerning your past if it doesn't affect him... this only affects him because he feels less insecure to have contempt for you.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Holy smokes.

Last year I reconciled with my ex-H after being divorced for 4 years. When we first reconciled he said the past is in the past, we're only moving forward from here, blah blah blah. After we bought a house and moved in together he became like your H - retrograde jealousy over the man I was with during our time apart (nevermind the fact that he was too and got married). He questioned me over and over for details just like your H. I finally let out a tiny little bit, and it all went downhill from there. He could not handle it and the retrograde jealousy made him despise me. He became full of contempt and has called me a ***** and a c*&^, among other things. In our arguments now he constantly brings up the fact I was with other people. (We were divorced and getting back together was not even on my radar....until it was.)

Anyway, my point is that I totally get this kind of man. He will not change. It is absolutely unfair of him to hang on to this in the fashion he is and destroy your self esteem like he has. There are so many men out there who wouldn't give a crap about your FWB.

You're an adult now. I'd send a letter/email to the woman and tell her about all of this. What's she going to do, ground her son?  I'm sure she's hurting and confused and would rather know WHY. She might even know....maybe her son told her about the stupid threat!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

They were only meeting the mother of her former lover, not him... they are friends. So what? I think the OP made a big mistake by marrying this man... his behaviour was irrational, silly and humiliating. We are not in medieval times... I would just get out, because this is going to get worse... good luck, OP... you have my sympathy.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

DandyJuniper said:


> *He didn't speak to me for days* and for some time, I was sure he decided he wasn't going to fly down to meet my parents, but he eventually did. After essentially begging him not to get into a fight with either the former FWB or his mother, he attended the function. However, during this time,* he also refused to touch me and when I tried to, he would sweep my hands away. When he did manage to look at me, it made me feel sick. I've never had anyone look at me with as much disgust as he did *those few days. That's not something you forget. How can you possibly love someone and be that disgusted by them?
> 
> He gave me an ultimatum- choose her or choose him. When I explained this, *his response was that she wouldn't like me at all if I knew what I did with her son*, which might be true, but having it verbalized made me feel even worse about myself as though liking me as a person is contingent on an idea of me that doesn't exist.
> 
> ...


Oh, honey. You are married to an a$$hole, plain and simple. A man who loves you does not treat you this with: swatting your hand away, looking at you with disgust, telling you that people won't like you if they know you did X, berating you, arguing with you all the time, making you feel disgusting and "unclean," threatening to end the relationship if you don't give exact minute detail of every past sexual encounter you've had before them, and holding you to a different standard (when you said he has slept with way more people).

I feel for you. The first 4 months of your marriage are to be enjoyed, not like a hellish nightmare. 

I'm willing to bet he's like this in other aspects of your relationship, not just how he acts with the FWB you had BEFORE you ever got with your husband. His way or the highway. He gets off on making you feel bad. Note: it will get worse over time. Especially when you feel like you can't even be yourself with him because you are constantly wondering what is going to set him off. Eggshells. Not fun.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Your married to a highly immature person. He brags about his conquest, but he wants you virgin white. He has a lot of insecurities to work on, and the more you give into his immaturity, the more it validates his actions as correct.
> 
> I suggest getting some emotional distance and figuring if you want to stay married to someone who does not accept you at your present , but can only view you from the past.
> 
> You should work on your issues, become mentally stronger. Your behavior is help enabling his own, proving to himself that he is correct in *what he is doing, bordering or perhaps you are in an emotional abusive relationship.* Please do look up this issue. Your husband has major issues, perhaps to depths that you are not aware of.


Took the words out of my mouth. This sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship.



In Absentia said:


> I think the OP made a big mistake by marrying this man... his behaviour was irrational, silly and humiliating. We are not in medieval times... I would just get out, because this is going to get worse...





SecondTime'Round said:


> Anyway, my point is that I totally get this kind of man. He will not change.


:iagree:


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

Thank you all for responding!

That was a really rough argument. We've had two major argument themes running through our marriage, but last year after months and months of arguing every other week, we talked it through and he hasn't been as quick to anger and hasn't brought it up since (he used to constantly bring it up).

I can understand his behavior to some extent because he was in a similar situation that ended poorly for him. He was put in the hospital by a "friend" of his ex when he broke up with her which would be traumatizing to anyone.

But the thing I'm struggling with is how to fix this. We've already talked it through. I've already forgiven him and can't keep asking him to apologize. I'm not upset at him, I'm upset at myself. Though he says he's over the whole deal and has moved on, I know my husband well enough to know otherwise. He has "moved on" from this a number of times before and the only reason I think he hasn't mentioned it has to do with the fact that we haven't been back to visit my parents since. I don't know what to do without rocking the boat too much.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Tell him "if you can't get over it, there's the door."
Its not your problem to control, manage, or deal with. Its his, and their is nothing you can do or say to make it better, you tried that. Next time he brings it up, show him the door.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

DandyJuniper said:


> Thank you all for responding!
> 
> That was a really rough argument. We've had two major argument themes running through our marriage, but last year after months and months of arguing every other week, we talked it through and he hasn't been as quick to anger and hasn't brought it up since (he used to constantly bring it up).
> 
> ...


Aside from strong counseling, you need to set some boundaries in the marriage. If this can't be buried forever, then end the marriage. It's a cancer that will fester until the day you die. At some point in time, it's end the issue or end the marriage. He has to be a big boy and put his big boy panties on.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You are right, your sex life before you met him is none of his business. Don't talk about with him. This is a man thing, I have seen other men on this board post how many years after they have been married that they are still upset about the number of men their wives slept with before they were married. It's stupid. People need to make the past the past. 

He is emotionally abusive and if he doesn't stop it I would leave him. Odds are it will not get better as he has some hang ups and will probably keep bringing it up years into the marriage. Don't bring children into the picture.


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

Roselyn said:


> The mistake that you made was that you were not honest with your husband before you were married. You were someone's lover and worse yet, you socialized with your former lover and his mother. If you did not want to resurrect your past, you should not have attended this Christmas & New Year event knowing fully well that you will run into your former lover and his mother.


I was never dishonest with my husband (then boyfriend) about my past. I never socialized with the former FWB apart from telling him that I had moved on and would no longer entertain any further conversation on the matter or otherwise. I never mentioned it prior to then because I literally didn't care. When I did mention it, it was done casually as I believed it wasn't a big deal. I'm someone who believes that someone's past is their past. I've never asked my husband or any ex questions about prior relationships so my natural inclination is to think that others feel similarly. Obviously, I was wrong. 

As for the gathering, my parents play an instrumental role in its operation and always have. I've gone to this gathering since my very first Christmas to the Christmas before I got married. Not to go while we were both in-state would be a snub to my parents and a huge break to a family tradition.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm not really understanding why it would be such a big deal to the FWB's mom or your parents if they found out about it. You say you can understand why your H feels the way he does. I do not understand at all. Why would these grownups be so upset?


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm not really understanding why it would be such a big deal to the FWB's mom or your parents if they found out about it. You say you can understand why your H feels the way he does. I do not understand at all. Why would these grownups be so upset?


Not so much upset as disappointed. My parents are religious and have always been proud of me. They are good friends with lady and her husband and I don't want for them to be reminded of my past indiscretions whenever they do happen to see each other, which is frequently. As a people pleaser, there's little worse than letting down someone you care about.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

For me I had no interest in what my W did prior to our marriage. Sure, I know she had boyfriends. It does not take a rocket scientist to know what goes on. I did not press any questions and really did not care. We started anew, in my mind, when we met, dated and married. The rest of it is nothing but useless static.

Your H needs to stop with the nonsense.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

DandyJuniper said:


> Not so much upset as disappointed. My parents are religious and have always been proud of me. They are good friends with lady and her husband and I don't want for them to be reminded of my past indiscretions whenever they do happen to see each other, which is frequently. As a people pleaser, there's little worse than letting down someone you care about.


Indiscretion? What do you do that was so awful? You hooked up with someone. So. A lot of people do that. You were'nt married or even dating your now-husband at the time.

To me, it seems you are taking a lot of this on like you are some unsoiled/dirty person for actually having had sex with someone prior to your husband. 

This is your husband's problem to deal with. I feel for you. Because you really want to make it right with him. Understandable. But I know that type of person. I have NO doubt he treats you like a$$ about other things he doesn't agree with. How he treated you in front of your family is truly just disrespectul and immature. I wish you luck because as you will find, it usually doesn't get better with these types. It gets worse over time. You're more concerned about "not rocking the boat" in order to stay on his good side versus the fact that he is treating you horribly. You are more concerned about saying/doing everything in order to please him versus everything else.

Bad relationship dynamic.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Can someone please explain to me the phrase "the past is the past"?

I agree that it's stupid to get worked up over this stuff. I do it, and I absolutely HATE that I do. But the "past is the past" argument just doesn't really do much as far as making me feel better. Does it mean the past doesn't matter? Because I have a hard time believing, people really believe that. Killed someone, well it's in the past. Cheated on your ex, in the past. Picked up hookers and snorted coke off their a$$es, in the past. Can't hold that against me now, it's all in the past.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> Not so much upset as disappointed. My parents are religious and have always been proud of me. They are good friends with lady and her husband and I don't want for them to be reminded of my past indiscretions whenever they do happen to see each other, which is frequently. As a people pleaser, there's little worse than letting down someone you care about.


OK, I understand a little more. I'm sorry if you've mentioned this, but how old are you all? How long have you been married? How old were you and FWB when you were hooking up?


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I'm sorry if you've mentioned this, but how old are you all? How long have you been married? How old were you and FWB when you were hooking up?


He's 12 years my senior and I'm in my mid 20s. We've been married for a little under a year. I was 21 when I ended contact with the FWB and met my now husband a few months later, consummated around 6 months after.

He also has a problem with the time frame, which I guess is understandable.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

DandyJuniper said:


> He's 12 years my senior and I'm in my mid 20s. We've been married for a little under a year. I was 21 when I ended contact with the FWB and met my now husband a few months later, consummated around 6 months after.
> 
> He also has a problem with the time frame, which I guess is understandable.


Yep. If you have uncommitted no strings sex with another guy and "make" another wait 6 months, the one who waited is going to have a problem with that a majority of the time. Retroactive Jealousy or not. I'd say in general men evaluate how sexually attracted you are to them by how quickly you sleep with them and adjust according to your own value system. 

For example if every man you've slept with you waited around one month, but slept with Joe in 1 week. We would assess that you were highly attracted to Joe. 

If your usual was around a month and you slept with Joe around that time frame, that's just how you operate it doesn't mean you aren't attracted to Joe.

If your usual is around a month, and Joe waits 3 months. By our assessment something's amiss.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Sorry to say, but he is using that to manipulate you. It is a power play.

Think of it as an ace, he plays that card when his own issues has arisen. When he feels insecure, he attacks you for it. It is easier to attack you than realize the fragile egotistical person that he is.

He batters your self esteem, so he can make you weaker than him. I bet it galls him to see that his past does not affect you as much. He is making his personal issues affect you personally. With him, you are not the person you want to be, and you are living your life in fear of triggering his own personal problems. Instead of working on himself to be a better person, he controls you to a certain extent, lowering you down with him instead.

The longer this goes on, the more this becomes the new you, and it gets harder to undo the changes to yourself. Even now, you have a lower opinion of yourself.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

I Don't Know said:


> Can someone please explain to me the phrase "the past is the past"?
> 
> I agree that it's stupid to get worked up over this stuff. I do it, and I absolutely HATE that I do. But the "past is the past" argument just doesn't really do much as far as making me feel better. Does it mean the past doesn't matter? Because I have a hard time believing, people really believe that. Killed someone, well it's in the past. Cheated on your ex, in the past. Picked up hookers and snorted coke off their a$$es, in the past. Can't hold that against me now, it's all in the past.


Basically…the whole "the past is the past" thing is something people say when they do not want their significant others (or other observers) to dare think they are allowed to have opinions or be offended by things they have personally done.

For people who think that sex is a rather important emotional connection and a serious decision, and not just some physical activity two bored people do because they don't outright hate each other and there is nothing on TV, the whole notion of "the past is the past" is garbage.

The past is not the past.

Your past made you what you are and to argue otherwise is, to me, a concession that you feel like you will be judged harshly for what you have done.

For the OP…simply stated, your husband has some serious anger issues.

Being unhappy with a FWB situation is certainly fine.

I personally find the whole idea repulsive and would think less of my wife if she had one in her past.

But there is a point at which you express your distaste for it, but accept that it happened, and decide just how important that past is to your estimation of the person you are with now.

I think you guys needs counseling and he needs some anger management strategies, pronto.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I Don't Know said:


> For example if every man you've slept with you waited around one month, but slept with Joe in 1 week. We would assess that you were highly attracted to Joe.


He could have just not married her if he was so hung up on whether she had sex with someone before him. It goes both ways though.



Mr.Fisty said:


> Sorry to say, but he is using that to manipulate you. It is a power play.
> 
> Think of it as an ace, he plays that card when his own issues has arisen. When he feels insecure, he attacks you for it. It is easier to attack you than realize the fragile egotistical person that he is.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Ms. Fisty nailed this. It's pretty clear from the outside that he does this to put you down but it's his issue ultimately. OP is jumping through hoops trying to make him feel ok about something that is over and done with.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Happilymarried25 said:


> You are right, your sex life before you met him is none of his business. Don't talk about with him. This is a man thing, I have seen other men on this board post how many years after they have been married that they are still upset about the number of men their wives slept with before they were married. It's stupid. People need to make the past the past.


Yeah.

Men who think sex is a significant emotional investment meant for serious relationships have absolutely no right to look for that in a partner, and sure as heck have no right to inquire into their _wive's_ past to make sure they have the same views.

How dare such men have standards for acceptable sexual behavior from the person they plan on being with for the rest of their lives…


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Icey181 said:


> Yeah.
> 
> Men who think sex is a significant emotional investment meant for serious relationships have absolutely no right to look for that in a partner, and sure as heck have no right to inquire into their _wive's_ past to make sure they have the same views.
> 
> How dare such men have standards for acceptable sexual behavior from the person they plan on being with for the rest of their lives…


He has a right to have that standard, but he knew, married her anyway, and now holds it over her head, and probably will forever. That's the unfair part.


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

I Don't Know said:


> Yep. If you have uncommitted no strings sex with another guy and "make" another wait 6 months, the one who waited is going to have a problem with that a majority of the time. Retroactive Jealousy or not. I'd say in general men evaluate how sexually attracted you are to them by how quickly you sleep with them and adjust according to your own value system.
> 
> For example if every man you've slept with you waited around one month, but slept with Joe in 1 week. We would assess that you were highly attracted to Joe.
> 
> ...



You're assuming that I didn't know this FWB prior to the arrangement. He had been pursuing me for years (around 4) and eventually after being recently single and bored, I agreed to further explore with the condition that it wouldn't be an emotional relationship. By your assessment, it would be fair to assume that I was not even remotely attracted to this FWB, which in many regards, is true. 

Additionally, you're assuming that I made my now husband "wait" before having sex. I didn't make him wait and he didn't make me. It happened when circumstances allowed for it to happen.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> He has a right to have that standard, but he knew, married her anyway, and now holds it over her head, and probably will forever. That's the unfair part.


True. It is his issue and he needs serious counseling to learn how to deal with it. 

But the notion that "your past is the past" and that your sexual history is something your spouse should never be allowed to ask about and should never be brought up in discussion is about as immature as this husband's reaction to it.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> You're assuming that I didn't know this FWB prior to the arrangement. He had been pursuing me for years (around 4) and eventually after being recently single and bored, I agreed to further explore with the condition that it wouldn't be an emotional relationship. By your assessment, it would be fair to assume that I was not even remotely attracted to this FWB, which in many regards, is true.
> 
> Additionally, you're assuming that I made my now husband "wait" before having sex. I didn't make him wait and he didn't make me. It happened when circumstances allowed for it to happen.


What did you mean by, he had issues with the time frame?*


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Icey181 said:


> True. It is his issue and he needs serious counseling to learn how to deal with it.
> 
> But the notion that "your past is the past" and that your sexual history is something your spouse should never be allowed to ask about and should never be brought up in discussion is about as immature as this husband's reaction to it.


I agree to an extent. If you've already talked about the past and mutually agreed to put the past behind you and only look to the future (and the present), yet you continually bring your partner's past up (while still insisting your own past stay in the past) and throw it in their face, that's not fair. The partner entered into the relationship thinking both parties were on the same playing field--only looking forward. 

I'm projecting here. Several times I've said to my STBX, "Sooo, when you said, when I said, when WE AGREED that the past was in the past, that only meant YOUR past, not MY past, correct?" And he agreed that yes, that was true. Wasn't fair to me, but it was true.


----------



## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I agree to an extent. If you've already talked about the past and mutually agreed to put the past behind you and only look to the future (and the present), yet you continually bring your partner's past up (while still insisting your own past stay in the past) and throw it in their face, that's not fair. The partner entered into the relationship thinking both parties were on the same playing field--only looking forward.
> 
> I'm projecting here. Several times I've said to my STBX, "Sooo, when you said, when I said, when WE AGREED that the past was in the past, that only meant YOUR past, not MY past, correct?" And he agreed that yes, that was true. Wasn't fair to me, but it was true.


See, that sounds like an issue that needs to be resolved.

In my mind relationships only work from a position of honesty and fairness.

Both need to be present for things to work, and if one partner is having an issue with it, they need to deal with it.

But this entire mantra, the "the past is the past" stuff, is ludicrous.

I am quite simply tired of people, mostly women it seems these days, telling mostly men that they do not get to have issues with their partner's sexual history.

Newsflash: If you feel the need to hide or not discuss your past, it means _you_ are ashamed of it in some way or expect the person you are with to have a problem with it.

There is a conversation there that needs to happen. And the OP is looking like a prime example of what happens when that conversation is either not done or not done properly, in good faith.


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

Icey181 said:


> Yeah.
> 
> Men who think sex is a significant emotional investment meant for serious relationships have absolutely no right to look for that in a partner, and sure as heck have no right to inquire into their _wive's_ past to make sure they have the same views.
> 
> How dare such men have standards for acceptable sexual behavior from the person they plan on being with for the rest of their lives…


I absolutely agree with you that. If sex is a sacred issue, then of course someone has the right to expect that his or her spouse feel the same and be perturbed at a less than pristine past as it is a quality that should be carefully considered before marriage. However, as I mentioned, this is not the case here. 

My husband has volunteered that he has had far more sexual partners than I, a number of which were one night stands whose names he says he didn't know. Very little emotional investment there.


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

Icey181 said:


> What did you mean by, he had issues with the time frame?*


Having ended the FWB 6 months prior was too soon for him.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> I absolutely agree with you that. If sex is a sacred issue, then of course someone has the right to expect that his or her spouse feel the same and be perturbed at a less than pristine past as it is a quality that should be carefully considered before marriage. However, as I mentioned, this is not the case here.
> 
> My husband has volunteered that he has had far more sexual partners than I, a number of which were one night stands whose names he says he didn't know. Very little emotional investment there.


Which makes me question what he is doing.

This sounds quite a bit like manipulative emotional abuse.

He needs professional help to help find ways to address what his real problem is. It does not sound like he has the whole "sex is important" hang up that many men do, it sounds like he is using this a wedge for control.

If that is the case it needs to stop ASAP and you need to make it clear that the conversation is over.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> Having ended the FWB 6 months prior was too soon for him.


Sounds like an off-the-cuff excuse. 

Literally an attempt to make you feel bad in order to gain power over a situation…that is not healthy and needs to stop.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> Having ended the FWB 6 months prior was too soon for him.


I'f you'd been engaged or married to that man, would 6 months have been enough time? 

Why is he allowed to have multiple sex partners before you, some one night stands, but your FWB trumps all of that to the point of still not letting it go even though you are now married?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Icey181 said:


> See, that sounds like an issue that needs to be resolved.
> 
> In my mind relationships only work from a position of honesty and fairness.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you. But if I, Jane, am ashamed of my sexual past, and I tell you, John, all about it while we are dating, and you accept me, warts and all, and marry me anyway, you don't get to keep bringing it up over and over.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> *He could have just not married her if he was so hung up on whether she had sex with someone before him. It goes both ways though.*
> 
> 
> :iagree:
> ...


Absolutely, he probably should not have married her knowing this bothered him. Maybe he thought it'd get better or he'd get over it. 

As someone who experiences RJ, I must say, he doesn't want to feel this way. You have to realize that this is so irrational, and we who do this know it is irrational, that we look for a logical way fix it. He probably thought that it was just because she still had a (admittedly small) connection with the FWB that it bothered him. If she cut that tie, problem solved. But it doesn't work that way. 

At first the torturous Q and A does make you feel better. But then the small bits of new information start to dig at you too. So you start the Q and A again, because hey it worked last time, right? It's like the OCD cycle. Obsessive thoughts about her past ---> Q and A ---> temporary relief ---> obsessive thought start again.

It's not right of him to treat her poorly and call her names. And it is up to him to work through this. But he probably doesn't know how. 

OP, find out if he has an actual moral objection to your past or if he feels like he doesn't measure up in some way. If it's the latter (and he hasn't destroyed your marriage already) maybe he can work through it, but he has to start TODAY. Get him to read the book Overcoming Retroactive Jealousy. It's a pretty good resource IF he is willing to work on himself.


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> *I can understand his behavior to some extent *because he was in a similar situation that ended poorly for him. He was put in the hospital by a "friend" of his ex when he broke up with her which would be traumatizing to anyone.
> 
> But the thing I'm struggling with is how to fix this. We've already talked it through. *I've already forgiven him* and can't keep asking him to apologize. *I'm not upset at him, I'm upset at myself.* Though he says he's over the whole deal and has moved on, I know my husband well enough to know otherwise. He has "moved on" from this a number of times before and the only reason I think he hasn't mentioned it has to do with the fact that we haven't been back to visit my parents since. I don't know what to do without rocking the boat too much.


No. No, no, no. Don't do this. Don't excuse his behavior because he had a bad experience. Don't forgive him just because he has apologized. Don't blame yourself for things you have done in the past that are COMPLETELY OKAY.

Your husband sounds like an absolute ass, honestly. To push the topic to the extent that you feel ashamed of yourself just for being a sexual person... it's not just hypocritical of him, it's not just jealousy, it's abuse and manipulation. He knew your history before he married you, he has no right to continue being a giant pissbaby about it.

I suggest you shove him into counseling to deal with his BS or shove him right in the trash.


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## SparkyWolf (May 21, 2015)

Look up narcissistic personality disorder


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

I Don't Know said:


> Absolutely, he probably should not have married her knowing this bothered him. Maybe he thought it'd get better or he'd get over it.
> 
> As someone who experiences RJ, I must say, he doesn't want to feel this way. You have to realize that this is so irrational, and we who do this know it is irrational, that we look for a logical way fix it. He probably thought that it was just because she still had a (admittedly small) connection with the FWB that it bothered him. If she cut that tie, problem solved. But it doesn't work that way.
> 
> ...


This.

When he first asked, I knew it would make things worse, but after a good amount of back and forth, I gave him some details. He claimed it helped but soon after, he started playing through those details in his head and said he wasn't able to touch me or fully enjoy sex because he kept revisiting those thoughts. I was not longer "his" because of these obsessive intrusions. These thoughts would eventually relent, but almost as though in response to this, he would ask more questions, many times the same questions with more absurd requests for details like how many times a week, favorite position with him, location of rendezvous, penis size, etc., and the cycle would begin again. 

It's traumatizing for the person with RJ, but it quickly became a traumatizing experience for me as well. Prior to that, I never gave past relationships a second thought and was never made to feel bad over these kinds of decisions, especially those made in reckless youth and by others who have similar pasts. 

His objection isn't necessarily a moral one. He can't understand how anyone can continue having sex with someone they don't have deep feelings for so therefore, I must have had deep feelings for this FWB. He's told me that when he had one night stands, he would be almost disgusted by the girl and wouldn't revisit the experience. However, for me, sex was never about the climax (and have only climaxed with my husband and a previous ex) but about feeling wanted and sexy. I could have slept around to stroke my ego, but multiple sexual partners is far too risky a behavior for me and I would much rather know something about the person I'm engaged with. It was just a safer bet for me. 

I would love to have this resolved, but the issue hasn't come up since we last discussed it 6 months ago. As far as he's concerned, the issue is over. It may very well be for him and I have to assume it is until proven otherwise. He sincerely apologized for his behavior and I forgave him for this. But since then, I've been living with the hurt and disgust that resulted from his constant prying and avoidance. I'm no longer upset at him per se, and I know he is truly regretful. It isn't fair to demand that he continually apologize for something he did in the past and therefore can't change. That would be hypocritical of me to request. I just don't know how to reconcile these feelings. I constantly feel guilty and I'm saddened that the prospect of visiting my family is such a terrible, anxiety-ridden experience now.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

DandyJuniper said:


> When he first asked, I knew it would make things worse, but after a good amount of back and forth, I gave him some details. He claimed it helped but soon after, he started playing through those details in his head an*d said he wasn't able to touch me or fully enjoy sex because he kept revisiting those thoughts. I was not longer "his" *because of these obsessive intrusions. These thoughts would eventually relent, but almost as though in response to this,* he would ask more questions, many times the same questions with more absurd requests for details like how many times a week, favorite position with him, location of rendezvous, penis size, etc., and the cycle would begin again. *


Ugh.



DandyJuniper said:


> His objection isn't necessarily a moral one. *He can't understand how anyone can continue having sex with someone they don't have deep feelings for *so therefore, I must have had deep feelings for this FWB. He's told me that *when he had one night stands, he would be almost disgusted by the girl and wouldn't revisit the experience. *


Sounds like your husband has the opinion that "women are dirt" if they have sex with anyone. Yet, when he does it, it's totally ok. I hope you see the double standard here. Because it's HUGE.



DandyJuniper said:


> As far as he's concerned, the issue is over. It may very well be for him and I have to assume it is until proven otherwise. He sincerely apologized for his behavior and I forgave him for this. *But since then, I've been living with the hurt and disgust that resulted from his constant prying and avoidance.* I'm no longer upset at him per se, and I know he is truly regretful. *It isn't fair to demand that he continually apologize for something he did in the past *and therefore can't change.* That would be hypocritical* of me to request.


So it's not ok for you to ask for him to apologize again (not that you were going to) but it was ok for him to constantly badger with you intimate questions about what your fave position was with the other guy, how big his penis was, and every last minute of where/how many times/when of your sex with the other guy? Again, a double standard. 



DandyJuniper said:


> I just don't know how to reconcile these feelings. I constantly feel guilty and I'm saddened that the prospect of visiting my family is such a terrible, anxiety-ridden experience now.


You feel the way you do because he made you feel cheap, unwanted, avoided sex with you, told you to your face he felt he couldn't be intimate with you because you had sex with another man, before you even met him, and he because he treated you horribly in front of your family the last time you went to visit them (seriously, swatting your hand away? WTF is that?) You may not want to "rock the boat" as you said in order to maintain peace, but the fact is, until you talk about how it made you feel with him and express your feelings, then you're not gonna feel better. Maybe some IC (counseling) would help you. I would caution you though, that if this is how he treats you when he's upset about something: staring at you in a way that made you feel horribly small, the wayou explained it in your first thread, swatting your hand away, avoiding sex altogether with you - my bet is he probably does this in other parts of your relationship. He knows how to manipulate you because it works. This guy sounds like bad news.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Wow, your husband sounds incredibly insecure and controlling! I could understand if he simply didn't want you to see you previous FWB, but, C'mon! You can't be friends with the mother?

What's the deal with all the questions about your previous lover?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I Don't Know said:


> Can someone please explain to me the phrase "the past is the past"?
> 
> I agree that it's stupid to get worked up over this stuff. I do it, and I absolutely HATE that I do. But the "past is the past" argument just doesn't really do much as far as making me feel better. Does it mean the past doesn't matter? Because I have a hard time believing, people really believe that. Killed someone, well it's in the past. Cheated on your ex, in the past. Picked up hookers and snorted coke off their a$$es, in the past. Can't hold that against me now, it's all in the past.


You're confusing what normal everyday people do to people that commit felonies and what should be a felony, i.e. cheating.

The past is the past just means if you have a problem with, move on to the next relationship since you don't have the self confidence to hang around.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Icey181 said:


> Yeah.
> 
> Men who think sex is a significant emotional investment meant for serious relationships have absolutely no right to look for that in a partner, and sure as heck have no right to inquire into their _wive's_ past to make sure they have the same views.
> 
> How dare such men have standards for acceptable sexual behavior from the person they plan on being with for the rest of their lives…


You missed the part where he knew what went on before he married her. Now he's making her life a hell on earth. His problem is he cant get it out of his head the other man is better than him.

He is the one that married her under false pretenses.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> You missed the part where he knew what went on before he married her. Now he's making her life a hell on earth. His problem is he cant get it out of his head the other man is better than him.


You missed the part where I was responding to another poster and not the OP.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Icey181 said:


> True. It is his issue and he needs serious counseling to learn how to deal with it.
> 
> But the notion that "your past is the past" and that your sexual history is something your spouse should never be allowed to ask about and should never be brought up in discussion is about as immature as this husband's reaction to it.


No one has a right to know your sexual past. The mistake she made was telling him anything. If he doesn't agree there are plenty of other fish in the sea.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He acts like a man who has discovered that his wife cheated on him. He has mind movies and feels inadequate. He experiences a roller coaster of emotion. He feels contemptuous in one breath, and in love the next.

I think your H wants badly to believe that you are not the type of woman who would, in fact, cheat on him if a 'better' man showed up. He is insecure because you had a repeat experience with no emotional strings attached. In his mind, you could easily do that at any time, you could be emotionally committed to him, but acting out pure sexual attraction to another man.

He knows you didn't cheat on him, but he irrationally thinks you did. It's like your character cheated on him. He doesn't quite trust you as a result.

I would deal with this as a betrayal, no matter how irrational that seems.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

DandyJuniper said:


> This.
> 
> When he first asked, I knew it would make things worse, but after a good amount of back and forth, I gave him some details. He claimed it helped but soon after, he started playing through those details in his head and said he wasn't able to touch me or fully enjoy sex because he kept revisiting those thoughts. I was not longer "his" because of these obsessive intrusions. These thoughts would eventually relent, but almost as though in response to this, he would ask more questions, many times the same questions with more absurd requests for details like how many times a week, favorite position with him, location of rendezvous, penis size, etc., and the cycle would begin again.
> 
> ...


He has damaged you emotionally. You're going to have to find competent counseling. AAMF I'm concerned you have been abused so much that you actually have PTSD. Find a good counselor as quickly as you can.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dandy,

I agree that asking him to continue apologizing isn't productive. 

That said, if he's truly 'sorry' he won't discourage you from maintaining your friendship with FWB's mother. 

And yes - that's the litmus test. Your relationship with her is with her. If in the course of seeing her, you bump into her son - so what. That's clearly not your goal nor your focus. 

Your H appears to be very insecure. Toxically so. 

I think perhaps it is best for you to have a plan. Said plan could be rather simple. 
1. I tell H I am resuming relationship with FWB's mother
2. If he complains I calmly explain why he has nothing to fear
3. If he persists I suggest marriage counseling - MC
4. If he refuses MC - than I take a step back and evaluate whether I should cut my losses. Being married to an angry, controlling person is like going for a swim wrapped in a boat anchor. 

Do NOT have children until this all gets sorted out. 





DandyJuniper said:


> This.
> 
> When he first asked, I knew it would make things worse, but after a good amount of back and forth, I gave him some details. He claimed it helped but soon after, he started playing through those details in his head and said he wasn't able to touch me or fully enjoy sex because he kept revisiting those thoughts. I was not longer "his" because of these obsessive intrusions. These thoughts would eventually relent, but almost as though in response to this, he would ask more questions, many times the same questions with more absurd requests for details like how many times a week, favorite position with him, location of rendezvous, penis size, etc., and the cycle would begin again.
> 
> ...


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

I Don't Know said:


> Can someone please explain to me the phrase "the past is the past"?
> 
> I agree that it's stupid to get worked up over this stuff. I do it, and I absolutely HATE that I do. But the "past is the past" argument just doesn't really do much as far as making me feel better. Does it mean the past doesn't matter? Because I have a hard time believing, people really believe that. Killed someone, well it's in the past. Cheated on your ex, in the past. Picked up hookers and snorted coke off their a$$es, in the past. Can't hold that against me now, it's all in the past.


When I say the past is the past, I'm doing so with qualifiers. For instance, my husband has done drugs in the past. He was never an addict but did partake socially. He hasn't done that for years and shows no interest in doing it again. Therefore, that's his past. He made a conscious, deliberate, and decisive decision to end the behavior and has done nothing to indicate otherwise. 

Now if he had told me he cheated on every woman he had ever been with, the past is not the past. It's only the 
"past" because he hasn't had opportunity to repeat it with me and is indicative of an ongoing pattern. 

"The past is the pat" really only applies to instances in which a pattern of behavior isn't evident and liable to repeat itself.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

DandyJuniper said:


> This.
> 
> When he first asked, I knew it would make things worse, but after a good amount of back and forth, I gave him some details. He claimed it helped but soon after, he started playing through those details in his head and said he wasn't able to touch me or fully enjoy sex because he kept revisiting those thoughts. I was not longer "his" because of these obsessive intrusions. These thoughts would eventually relent, but almost as though in response to this, he would ask more questions, many times the same questions with more absurd requests for details like how many times a week, favorite position with him, location of rendezvous, penis size, etc., and the cycle would begin again.
> 
> ...



I think many of us have not noticed that the husbands bad behavior ceased 6 months ago. a real ***hole would not sincerely apologize, be regretful and reform.

OP - sounds as if you still have bad feelings you need to work through, with the aid of your husband. i.e. not more demands to apologize or other accusations but just let him know you need to talk (about how you are feeling about you). Test his ability to show love and empathy.....very important traits in a marriage partner.

one thing though - it sounds like the lion's share of the blame for how you feel about yourself has to be pinned on your parents, not your H. you use the word "disappoint" several times. i.e. you are casting your past sexual behavior in terms of their standards and internalizing that your behavior was a series of "mistakes" done in youth 
- sounds like the harshest judge you're dealing with is you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dandy,

Now we're talking. And the reason you are struggling to trust your H is because: 

You have a legitimate fear that his character traits which created this situation haven't changed. 

The fastest way to find out is to resume your friendship. 






DandyJuniper said:


> When I say the past is the past, I'm doing so with qualifiers. For instance, my husband has done drugs in the past. He was never an addict but did partake socially. He hasn't done that for years and shows no interest in doing it again. Therefore, that's his past. He made a conscious, deliberate, and decisive decision to end the behavior and has done nothing to indicate otherwise.
> 
> Now if he had told me he cheated on every woman he had ever been with, the past is not the past. It's only the
> "past" because he hasn't had opportunity to repeat it with me and is indicative of an ongoing pattern.
> ...


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Now we're talking. And the reason you are struggling to trust your H is because:
> 
> You have a legitimate fear that *his character traits which created this situation haven't changed*.


Ding ding ding ding ding. 

That's really the crux of the matter, isn't it?


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Ding ding ding ding ding.
> 
> That's really the crux of the matter, isn't it?


It is. I'm fearful that the only reason we have not brought this up recently is that we are physically removed from the environment that functions as a trigger. In many ways, I don't believe that our marriage can survive another trip to my parents. He says he is over it, but he has said this many times before only to have it come back up again at the slightest of references to the situation. I've responded to this by severely limiting conversation or situations that could possibly relate back to the argument in any way and for the most part, this has worked. But before I can start the process of healing, I feel like I need to be assured that the situation won't repeat itself and that's something that only time can prove.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> It is. I'm fearful that the only reason we have not brought this up recently is that we are physically removed from the environment that functions as a trigger. In many ways, I don't believe that our marriage can survive another trip to my parents. He says he is over it, but he has said this many times before only to have it come back up again at the slightest of references to the situation. *I've responded to this by severely limiting conversation or situations that could possibly relate back to the argument in any way and for the most part, this has worked. *But before I can start the process of healing, I feel like I need to be assured that the situation won't repeat itself and that's something that only time can prove.


That's no way to live.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

DandyJuniper said:


> It is. I'm fearful that the only reason we have not brought this up recently is that we are physically removed from the environment that functions as a trigger. In many ways, *I don't believe that our marriage can survive another trip to my parents*. *He says he is over it, but he has said this many times before only to have it come back up* again at the slightest of references to the situation. I*'ve responded to this by severely limiting conversation or situations that could possibly relate back to the argument in any way and for the most part, this has worke*d. But before I can start the process of healing, I feel like I need to be assured that the situation won't repeat itself and that's something that only time can prove.


I feel for you. Having been in a relationship where I felt stifled and in a similar dynamic, I can tell you, it's not fun. I really think that until you have a conversation with him about what all this had made you feel/how much this hurt you, how his behavior affected you, then you're not going to get very far. You're essentially trying to block any talk about something that has caused you major stress and pain because you don't want to upset him when you should be able to freely speak about anything with your partner without the worry that they are going to blow out at you. You are masking your pain in order to keep on even ground with him, when you need to unleash your feelings/get to the bottom of it. You're plugging a wound that you need to have open and it's only going to hurt you. It's going to eat away at you until you eventually blow up one day and resentment seeps in. Resentment is the #1 love killer.


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Sounds like your husband has the opinion that "women are dirt" if they have sex with anyone. Yet, when he does it, it's totally ok. I hope you see the double standard here. Because it's HUGE.


I mentioned we had 2 consistent argument themes. Make that 3. I've pointed out his penchant for double standards more than I care to remember. Fairness is an exceptionally huge deal to me so it's always particularly salient when it's breached.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> I feel for you. Having been in a relationship where *I felt stifled* and in a similar dynamic, I can tell you, it's not fun. I really think that until you have a conversation with him about what all this had made you feel/how much this hurt you, how his behavior affected you, then you're not going to get very far. You're essentially trying to block any talk about something that has caused you major stress and pain because you don't want to upset him when you should be able to freely speak about anything with your partner without the worry that they are going to blow out at you. You are masking your pain in order to keep on even ground with him, when you need to unleash your feelings/get to the bottom of it. You're plugging a wound that you need to have open and it's only going to hurt you. It's going to eat away at you until you eventually blow up one day and resentment seeps in. Resentment is the #1 love killer.


I've never described my relationship in this way, but YES, this is exactly how I, and everyone else, would describe my relationship with my STBX. Never free to be me. When we reconciled I thought that had changed, but no.....an insecure, self-loathing and controlling man isn't capable of letting a woman just be her strong self.

Sorry to thread jack. Just want to thank JB for introducing that word into my relationship vocab .


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> I mentioned we had 2 consistent argument themes. Make that 3. I've pointed out his penchant for double standards more than I care to remember. Fairness is an exceptionally huge deal to me so it's always particularly salient when it's breached.


Dandy, has this been discussed.....what's his relationship history?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh, Second... I can relate Oh so much. It is a mindfck, isn't it? You wonder why someone can't see that their behavior is so off and it's because they truly don't see anything wrong with it.



SecondTime'Round said:


> I've never described my relationship in this way, but YES, this is exactly how I, and everyone else, would describe my relationship with my STBX. Never free to be me. When we reconciled I thought that had changed, but no.....an insecure, self-loathing and controlling man isn't capable of letting a woman just be her strong self.
> 
> Sorry to thread jack. Just want to thank JB for introducing that word into my relationship vocab .


No problem. 

It's because this type of man: 



DandyJuniper said:


> I've pointed out his penchant for double standards more than I care to remember. Fairness is an exceptionally huge deal to me so it's always particularly salient when it's breached.


... this type of man will never see it as a double standard. It will always be His way or and no other way. That's why he says he feels so disgusted by women he's had a one-off with. When he also was the other half of that! Telling you you "disgust" him when he's also had sex with other people! 

If I am write about this guy, expect more of the same.



SecondTime'Round said:


> Dandy, has this been discussed.....what's his relationship history?


Oooh I WAS just going to ask this. Lol. Get out of my head, SecondTime! 

Does he speak kindly of exes? Was he married before? Does he largely blame his ex for why their relationships ended? 

OP you said you're mid-20s and he's late 30s. This is who he is. He's not going to change.

I seriously can relate to your post so much, sadly, in another relationship I had before. Not meaning to sound like a Negative Nelly but I have been there, bought the t-shirt and the circus was exhausting.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Oooh I WAS just going to ask this. Lol. Get out of my head, SecondTime!


:rofl:


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Does he speak kindly of exes? Was he married before? Does he largely blame his ex for why their relationships ended?
> 
> ...


Never married before. He's only spoken of two exes. As I mentioned before, I don't really care much about past relationships, so I'm not sure about the rest. But one girlfriend was an old high school sweetheart who he had an on again off again relationship with, a dynamic he largely attributes to his immaturity at the time. The other was responsible for putting him in the hospital with the help of her guy friend, so naturally, there isn't much good to be said about her.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dandy,
You've got one hell of a high IQ. 

It's also true that the strategy below - just won't hunt. It's a bust from the get go. It's fear manifesting as avoidance. 

That avoidance will ultimately turn into a stew of resentment amd when it boils over, that superheated liquid will destroy everything in its path....

Cause the way this sits right now - your punishment for doing something (premarital sex) he himself has done many more times - is the loss of a FEMALE friendship you value. You are NEVER going to accept that in your heart. It's going to feel more and more unfair over time especially given how toxic his whole treatment of this situation was. 

If you want help in framing this - ask. But passively letting time pass isn't going to make this better. Quite the opposite. 





DandyJuniper said:


> It is. I'm fearful that the only reason we have not brought this up recently is that we are physically removed from the environment that functions as a trigger. In many ways, I don't believe that our marriage can survive another trip to my parents. He says he is over it, but he has said this many times before only to have it come back up again at the slightest of references to the situation. I've responded to this by severely limiting conversation or situations that could possibly relate back to the argument in any way and for the most part, this has worked. But before I can start the process of healing, I feel like I need to be assured that the situation won't repeat itself and that's something that only time can prove.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

DandyJuniper said:


> It is. I'm fearful that the only reason we have not brought this up recently is that we are physically removed from the environment that functions as a trigger. In many ways, I don't believe that our marriage can survive another trip to my parents. He says he is over it, but he has said this many times before only to have it come back up again at the slightest of references to the situation. I've responded to this by severely limiting conversation or situations that could possibly relate back to the argument in any way and for the most part, this has worked. But before I can start the process of healing, I feel like I need to be assured that the situation won't repeat itself and that's something that only time can prove.


I think you need to stop avoiding the issues and visit your parents, with or without him. You are letting his issues dictate who you are choosing to be. If you continue to avoid the issues, you will be a crappy person to your parents and your friend when they've done nothing to deserve it. That will be your choice. Be a crappy person and someone who avoids the issues in their marriage, or be true to yourself and the people around you, visit your parents and your friend and face this head on. Leave him if that's what it takes to get through to him. If he threatens to leave, help him pack.

At the end of the day, who do you want to be?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> Dandy,
> You've got one hell of a high IQ.
> 
> It's also true that the strategy below - just won't hunt. It's a bust from the get go. It's fear manifesting as avoidance.
> ...


I could not agree more.


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> If you want help in framing this - ask. But passively letting time pass isn't going to make this better. Quite the opposite.


You're absolutely right. My fear and complete hatred of conflict makes the situation seem a lot more impossible than it is and while I know that doing nothing isn't helping, this fear makes me feel that addressing it will lead to an even worse outcome. I just wish I knew how to fix everything without the added stress of conflict.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> You're absolutely right. My fear and complete hatred of conflict makes the situation seem a lot more impossible than it is and while I know that doing nothing isn't helping, this fear makes me feel that addressing it will lead to an even worse outcome. I just wish I knew how to fix everything without the added stress of conflict.


Which conflict scares you the most:

1. Talking to your H about this again?
2. Telling your female friend/mother of your FWB why you've been so distant and weird with her?
3. Your parents finding out.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

DJ,
Do you hate 'conflict' in general? 
Or do you primarily hate conflict with your H? 

For the moment I'm going to focus on him. He's insecure and fearful and anxious. Consequently he chooses COMBAT over conflict. 

Healthy conflict is actually about 'us' as a couple. 

Combat is about HIM and protecting himself at all costs. 

Of course you dread raising this subject with him. Because he attacks you with it. 

And the twisted non logic he used for melting down over your FWB - is just him finding a way to rationalize his toxic behavior by blameshifting. 

The good news is that you get to choose the timing of this discussion. Which means you can prepare as much as needed. 

Three steps in preparation. 
1. Desensitization: To his bullying, his shaming and this nastiness about your sexual history. (Google it - or see an IC). Right now, this topic makes you tense. You need to fix that. 
2. Create a simple script for the discussion. This includes a 'stop loss limit', which represents the point where you believe he is losing control of his emotions and firmly tell him: this conversation will continue when you can be calm and constructive. For now it's over. 
3. Just before the actual discussion you do a blowout workout. A lengthy and intense cardio session. It will relax you. 

At some point you also need to tell him that for the marriage to survive you need to be able to have conflict without combat. 








DandyJuniper said:


> You're absolutely right. My fear and complete hatred of conflict makes the situation seem a lot more impossible than it is and while I know that doing nothing isn't helping, this fear makes me feel that addressing it will lead to an even worse outcome. I just wish I knew how to fix everything without the added stress of conflict.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I think you should read, "Getting the Love You Want" by H. Hendrix. I see a need for you to understand yourself better, and I think that book would help a great deal in doing that.

You also need to think about why you are with your husband. Is it a choice, or is it because of fear? Fear seems to be a huge part of your life, so it feels like it's likely to be the latter. 

One thing I know, deep down, is that I would just continue on without DH just fine. I'd get on with life. I'm not with him because I couldn't stand to be without him. That would be basing my life on a negative. I'm with him because I love being with him. Through tough times I don't love being with him, but I always know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel for us. It's always worth working through the tough times.

Where's your light at the end of the tunnel? I don't think you have one. You started out with a bad relationship and it's never gotten better. Your period of stability is tainted by fear of it all boiling over again.


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## DandyJuniper (Jan 27, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Which conflict scares you the most:
> 
> 1. Talking to your H about this again?
> 2. Telling your female friend/mother of your FWB why you've been so distant and weird with her?
> 3. Your parents finding out.


All of the above.
1. I know how ugly it got and would prefer not to revisit.
2. It's just a very awkward conversation to have and I'd rather not.
3. Above applies, but additionally, I know that telling them the reaction the situation got from my husband and the resulting loss of self esteem will likely lead to some resentment of him. There's also the fear of causing disappointment and shame, especially considering how close they are the involved parties. I've aways tried to make them proud. I graduated with a B.S. at 20. Found a job right out of undergrad. Soldier of the Cycle and honor grad at Basic and AIT after joining the army, and I'm currently in medical school. I don't want something I once considered unimportant to taint their perception of me.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

DandyJuniper said:


> All of the above.
> 1. I know how ugly it got and would prefer not to revisit.
> 2. It's just a very awkward conversation to have and I'd rather not.
> 3. Above applies, but additionally, I know that telling them the reaction the situation got from my husband and the resulting loss of self esteem will likely lead to some resentment of him. There's also the fear of causing disappointment and shame, especially considering how close they are the involved parties. I've aways tried to make them proud. I graduated with a B.S. at 20. Found a job right out of undergrad. Soldier of the Cycle and honor grad at Basic and AIT after joining the army, and I'm currently in medical school. *I don't want something I once considered unimportant to taint their perception of me.*


So, are you willing to sacrifice your own happiness and self esteem for that?

Regarding #2: If you're in medical school and presumably going to become a doctor, there are going to be a lot more difficult conversations with human beings in your future. Consider this practice for that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DandyJ. Your H does show signs of retroactive jealousy but worse, he has different values than you. 

He needs to get help to overcome his RJ but there is nothing wrong with his value system, it is just far different than yours.

Many, if not most, people would want nothing to do with their spouse's former fvck buddy.

Some don't care and you need to find someone with values similar to your own.

He is established and it is extremely unlikely that his value system will change. Yours might because you are still quite young.

You are married less than a year with no children. I would advise moving on. I put most of the blame on him. He has 12 years more experience than you and should have known to call it quits gracefully when it was obvious that you two were so different in your views on sex.

If you are going to continue to be in contact with your former boy toy, grin, you need to find a man with similar values.

I don't have RJ but exes are not allowed in our life at all.

If I had been in your Hs shoes, I would have gently told you that I wasn't the one for you when you told me you were still going to go to events where your FB was going to be and interacting with you.

He should have understood that you two were incompatible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I Don't Know said:


> Yep. If you have uncommitted no strings sex with another guy and "make" another wait 6 months, the one who waited is going to have a problem with that a majority of the time. Retroactive Jealousy or not. I'd say in general men evaluate how sexually attracted you are to them by how quickly you sleep with them and adjust according to your own value system.
> 
> For example if every man you've slept with you waited around one month, but slept with Joe in 1 week. We would assess that you were highly attracted to Joe.
> 
> ...


She knew the fwb for much longer than 3 months, he was well acquainted to her family, he wasn't some shmuck she met online.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Conan,

I believe you misread her. She is friends with the mother of her FWB. And only wanted to retain THAT relationship. Not to the guy himself. 






ConanHub said:


> DandyJ. Your H does show signs of retroactive jealousy but worse, he has different values than you.
> 
> He needs to get help to overcome his RJ but there is nothing wrong with his value system, it is just far different than yours.
> 
> ...


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> No one has a right to know your sexual past. The mistake she made was telling him anything. If he doesn't agree there are plenty of other fish in the sea.


First, that is simply ludicrous. Only people who want to avoid the consequences of their actions desire not to tell people about their past. If you do not want to have to share your sexual history with a partner then do not have one. But avoiding the topic of sex, sexual behaviors, and sexual pasts because you think "it's none of their business" makes about as much sense as one SO telling the other they have no right to know anything about their work or their social life when the other is not around.

Second, her mistake was not in telling him. Her mistake was in allowing him to apply hypocritical standards to his judgments and then, instead of calling him out on it, moderating her behavior to deal with those judgments. 

He has every right to know about her sexual history, within reason, and every right to judge it unacceptable.

However, he also has a responsibility as a mature adult to deal with that reality in a healthy and fair manner.

He is not.

Third, it does seem that he has a major problem with her past.
If that is the case then he needs to make a decision. Either he gets over it or he leaves.

Either way, the behavior needs to be checked and he needs professional help.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Icey181 said:


> Third, it does seem that he has a major problem with her past.
> If that is the case then he needs to make a decision. Either he gets over it or he leaves.


She also has a choice in the matter.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

DandyJuniper said:


> Never married before. He's only spoken of two exes. As I mentioned before, I don't really care much about past relationships, so I'm not sure about the rest. But one girlfriend was an old high school sweetheart who he had an on again off again relationship with, a dynamic he largely attributes to his immaturity at the time. The other was responsible for putting him in the hospital with the help of her guy friend, so naturally, there isn't much good to be said about her.


If he treated his ex like he treats you, the other boyfriend put him in the hospital for a reason.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> DandyJ. Your H does show signs of retroactive jealousy but worse, he has different values than you.
> 
> He needs to get help to overcome his RJ but there is nothing wrong with his value system, it is just far different than yours.
> 
> ...


Her husband found the women he had sex with disgusting and dirty. I doubt there is a woman out there with his value system. Just a guess but what are the odds his "value" system is what got him beat up.

From the way he's treated this opnhe needs another a$$ whipping. Just sayin'


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Indeed, he had sex with them and hated them for it. If that's not completely screwed up, I don't know what is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

That's what I'm saying! Like they are somehow horrible women for having slept with him. Like he didn't choose to stick his penis inside them! Like he had no part in it. Crazy hypocrite.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Disassociative Identity Disorder, maybe? I wonder if he has an alternate ego...

How common is retroactive jealousy for Narcissist?

*Do People Actually Have Multiple Personalities?*
Yes, and no. One of the reasons for the decision by the psychiatric community to change the disorder's name from Multiple Personality Disorder to Dissociative Identity Disorder is that "multiple personalities" is somewhat of a misleading term. A person diagnosed with DID feels as if she has within her two or more entities, or personality states, each with its own independent way of relating, perceiving, thinking, and remembering about herself and her life. If two or more of these entities take control of the person's behavior at a given time, a diagnosis of DID can be made. These entities previously were often called "personalities," even though the term did not accurately reflect the common definition of the word as the total aspect of our psychological makeup. Other terms often used by therapists and survivors to describe these entities are: "alternate personalities," "alters," "parts," "states of consciousness," "ego states," and "identities." It is important to keep in mind that although these alternate states may appear to be very different, they are all manifestations of a single person.
http://psychcentral.com/library/dissociation_intro.htm


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Her husband found the women he had sex with disgusting and dirty. I doubt there is a woman out there with his value system. Just a guess but what are the odds his "value" system is what got him beat up.
> 
> From the way he's treated this opnhe needs another a$$ whipping. Just sayin'


Missed that part. Just read OPs first few posts. So he is quite screwed in the head to find the women he has sex with disgusting because they had sex with him. 

He needs help to get his head straight on that issue as well. I think DandyJ should still move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Conan,
> 
> I believe you misread her. She is friends with the mother of her FWB. And only wanted to retain THAT relationship. Not to the guy himself.


I read it correctly but there is the constant and reasonable chance that interaction with the mother will coincide with interaction with her ex fb. Especially since, despite the OP saying she was comfortable and confident with her behavior, she still insists on hiding it from her family and her supposedly good friend, the mother.

She is obviously not all that confident and comfortable with her sexual behaviors if keeping it hidden is such a high priority for her.

This could also impact future relationships and most likely will. I do not believe she is a good match with her current H but she does have a couple issues to resolve if she wants a successful relationship in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

gouge_away said:


> She knew the fwb for much longer than 3 months, he was well acquainted to her family, he wasn't some shmuck she met online.


It was an example. Trying to get this point across that how fast you sleep with someone and the context of the situation is how men will determine how attracted a woman is to someone.

Besides knowing someone for years is not dating someone for years. She slept with him without a dating relationship. Her H dated her for 6 months before sleeping with her. I'll bet the farm those two facts are not sitting well with him. That's all I'm saying. 

She didn't do anything wrong having uncommitted sex with her friend. She didn't do anything wrong waiting to have sex with her H. I'm not blaming her at all and her H is being an a$$. I'm just trying to shed some light on how (I believe) he sees things.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't think it was the op that made the decision to not have sex with him for six months. Seems like he has a problem all on his own.

As far as telling your partner everyone you had sex with is just wrong. You don't kiss and tell . What happens between two people is private. Telling someone else just gives them the opportunity to tell other friends/people for whatever reason.

If they have to know a number fine, they can be told or cut loose. A gentleman doesn't ask and a lady doesn't tell...........and vice versa.


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