# The Problem with Men



## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

I have been accused of being too hard on women, so I promised to write a post on men. We have our own issues gentleman, and these are just a few.

The problem with guys:

1. Not seeing women / girls as they are, but applying some Hollywood or fictitious archetype to them. A girl wants you to love her for who she is: take the time to figure her out.

2. Lack of culture and depth: let’s face it, dudes are all about football, sitcoms, guns, and cars. That stuff isn’t particularly attractive and won’t make women interested. Read a book, learn about art history and go to museums, attend the symphony and the opera, and for God’s sake stop wearing baseball caps.

3. The idea that a big N count or notches in the bedpost are something to be proud of. It isn’t. Sleeping around, conquests, etc. are personally and culturally damaging. Most guys are not going to admire you for this, but will be somewhat disgusted. One quality woman is worth 100 low-quality, promiscuous women, and if you can’t land the former …

4. Failure to attend to larger cultural, ideological, and political concerns. Guys who don’t read the papers, don’t know what is going on overseas, and are generally oblivious, are kinda pathetic. Women tend to be a bit more in tune when it comes to this stuff (depending on region). Stop watching NASCAR and start paying attention to what is happening in your world.

5. For the guys that are a bit politically / ideologically aware, STOP white knighting and signaling. It is completely pathetic, and no woman respects a guy who bows and scrapes in front of her imaginary outrages, or the complaints of political parties. You need to be your own man, set your own agenda and adhere to the things that are important to you.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Simping for some girl, doing favors for her, or any of the other dumb stuff you do WILL NOT HELP YOU. Just stop. Now.

Men tend to have an issue opening up to other men, so when they have an issue, even with dating and relationships, they talk to women about it. Huge mistake. Most ladies will not tell a man what he needs to hear, they will just deal with him the way they deal with their female friends by telling them what they want to hear. Useless, generic advice that will not actually help a man solve whatever problem he has. 

Men need to learn how to better deal with women. Some of my female friends show me the sort of things guys say to them when they try to get dates and it's downright painful to see. Just sliding into some girl's DMs with nothing at all interesting to say will not get you a date, especially if you never even ask her for a date but always just message out of the blue with small talk. 

I think men need to better understand how dating and relationships really work. Dating in a Western culture, the deck is totally stacked against most men who aren't in that top 15% or so men that all women are chasing. So, if you play by the rules of dating in our culture here, you will not do well. Learn how to date better, opt out, or find someone who doesn't participate in that culture.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm SuperSimp!!!😆


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I'm SuperSimp!!!😆


With that tshirt you have, I am not suprised. Haha


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> With that tshirt you have, I am not suprised. Haha


Hey, it takes a real man to wear a Baby Yoda tee. Besides, I hear Mrs. C has a thing for Yoda (what woman doesn't?). He's polite, wise, good sense of humor and kicks some serious butt.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> Hey, it takes a real man to wear a Baby Yoda tee. Besides, I hear Mrs. C has a thing for Yoda (what woman doesn't?). He's polite, wise, good sense of humor and kicks some serious butt.


You forgot how cute it is. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 @ConanHub knows I'm just messing with him


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

My perception is that men are really easy to make happy. Men are happy at this level, and women are happy at a level way above that... and this creates a problem.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I'm going to give you my opinion based on my experiences as a woman. 


Enigma32 said:


> Simping for some girl, doing favors for her, or any of the other dumb stuff you do WILL NOT HELP YOU. Just stop. Now.


Maybe this does work with some women but not for others. Doing "dumb stuff" like sending flowers and doing favors is only viewed as a failure if done as a covert contract - doing something with the hopes of getting something in return. There is something be incredibly attractive about a man who does the stupid things and favors because he FEELS like it. It let's a woman know that those are qualities he poses naturally.



> Men tend to have an issue opening up to other men, so when they have an issue, even with dating and relationships, they talk to women about it. Huge mistake. Most ladies will not tell a man what he needs to hear, they will just deal with him the way they deal with their female friends by telling them what they want to hear. Useless, generic advice that will not actually help a man solve whatever problem he has.


Depends. I have plenty of male friends with whom I have had the some really direct conversations (no sugar coating). 



> Men need to learn how to better deal with women. Some of my female friends show me the sort of things guys say to them when they try to get dates and it's downright painful to see. Just sliding into some girl's DMs with nothing at all interesting to say will not get you a date, especially if you never even ask her for a date but always just message out of the blue with small talk.
> 
> I think men need to better understand how dating and relationships really work. Dating in a Western culture, the deck is totally stacked against most men who aren't in that top 15% or so men that all women are chasing. So, if you play by the rules of dating in our culture here, you will not do well. Learn how to date better, opt out, or find someone who doesn't participate in that culture.


Here's my take on the top 15% "theory". When everyone (men and women) are chasing the top 15-20%, the remaining 80-85% are going to end up empty handed unless they can self actualize enough to realize that their pool is much larger than the top 15-20%.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Stop watching NASCAR? No way!


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Manner1067 said:


> and for God’s sake stop wearing baseball caps.


This is the only issue I have with your list. I wear mine all day because it stops me from getting sunburn on my shiney dome. That being said, when I am not working I don't wear one.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

A fair attempt at a generalization and is true for a lot of boys.

Men, at least my personal experience do care a lot for fast cars, boats, motorcycles and women. But the list is way to shallow for grown men, at least in my groups. 

We've all easily added waaayy more to our repertoire and character to be whole.

Grown men sta d on their own, and invite desired women to come along if they want.

Simple, as @ConanHub mentioned tangentially.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So many generalities here.

I was coming back from an unsuccessful date night on Friday with the Mrs. on the drive back she was mentioning how when she talks with her friend about what famous people/actors they like they pick very differently. 

Mrs was saying she always picks very masculine guys. She didn’t offer any so I said, “Like the Rock?” She said yes exactly!

Her friend picks “sensitive” little guys although again no examples and as someone who doesn’t follow “sensitive little guys” all I had was Justin Timberlake and she said, “No, not like him.”

Does her friend secretly want a manly guy? Knowing her I don’t think so.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> A fair attempt at a generalization and is true for a lot of boys.
> 
> Men, at least my personal experience do care a lot for fast cars, boats, motorcycles and women. But the list is way to shallow for grown men, at least in my groups.
> 
> ...


My thoughts on this are that I am my own man, with my own likes/dislikes and interests. If people want to put me in generalized "lists" that is on them. I will still find women who are interested in me and the ones who are won't.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> A fair attempt at a generalization and is true for a lot of boys.
> 
> Men, at least my personal experience do care a lot for *fast cars, boats, motorcycles and women*. But the list is way to shallow for grown men, at least in my groups.
> 
> ...


I agree. 

I can't think of many men I grew up around who liked all the above. My Dad was a big ole nerd who liked historical biographies, travel, music, museums, and documentaries about WWII! Love him to bits. Granted a lot of his male friends loved cars (and some loved women...or in some cases men), but generally people we came across liked something that he did so that's the kind of guy who I grew up around. This nascar, boat-loving, motorcycle-riding womanizer described may be a bit of a stereotype but it's one I am not familiar with - do you think maybe this depends on region/country?


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> A fair attempt at a generalization and is true for a lot of boys.


True.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Men, at least my personal experience do care a lot for fast cars, boats, motorcycles and women. But the list is way too shallow for grown men, at least in my groups.


True.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> We've all easily added waaayy more to our repertoire and character to be whole.


True.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Grown men stand on their own, and invite desired women to come along if they want.


True.

Back in 2015, I went to Europe with my bestie and two of my sisters. I bought tickets for them to a recital at Zwinger Palace (one of the residences of the Saxon kings) in Dresden. I love classical music as does my friend, my sisters are/were indifferent but game. It was awesome, and they loved it. This event wouldn't have been on my radar if I was in my early 20s, but most of us grow up (mostly). Just so nobody thinks we're a bunch of old fogeys, we had whooped it up at Oktoberfest in Munich a few days earlier. Well rounded, we are (hat tip to Yoda).

I'm glad Ragnar posted because my original reaction wasn't going to be as polite. The men talked about in the OP aren't people I know. 

Anyway, so what's up with women......they're all a bunch of ******, amirite?


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> Maybe this does work with some women but not for others. Doing "dumb stuff" like sending flowers and doing favors is only viewed as a failure if done as a covert contract - doing something with the hopes of getting something in return. There is something be incredibly attractive about a man who does the stupid things and favors because he FEELS like it. It let's a woman know that those are qualities he poses naturally.


A guy doing favors and sending flowers for a woman is fine if he is doing it for his wife or long term partner. If he is doing those things for a girl he just started dating or someone he likes, then he is wasting his time. I have seen ladies troll these idiots for free drinks, dinners, and getting free work done around their house. These guys are hoping to get a foot in the door with her romantically but that approach simply does not work.



> Depends. I have plenty of male friends with whom I have had the some really direct conversations (no sugar coating).


Maybe you do. I have a couple female friends that are the same way. Even so, I've never once had a female friend give me practical, useful advice on how to do better with women. All of that is stuff I learned from other men who saw success.



> Here's my take on the top 15% "theory". When everyone (men and women) are chasing the top 15-20%, the remaining 80-85% are going to end up empty handed unless they can self actualize enough to realize that their pool is much larger than the top 15-20%.


A lot of them do end up empty handed. Or they settle. I know quite a few ladies who, post divorce, just date around indefinitely with the best looking guys they can get and then they wonder why they can't find anyone to settle down. They get addicted to that post-divorce/post-breakup promiscuous phase that all their female friends tell them they should experience. I have always had a ton of female friends and they show me their conversations with their female friends, they show me how men try to hit on them online, all of it. I feel like most men simply have no idea what is going on.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Manner1067 said:


> I have been accused of being too hard on women, so I promised to write a post on men. We have our own issues gentleman, and these are just a few.
> 
> The problem with guys:
> 
> ...


You forgot the elephant in the room:

6. Don't have self respect or dignity and use porn and masturbation to self satisfy rather than practice self control like their fathers and grandfathers did.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> A guy doing favors and sending flowers for a woman is fine if he is doing it for his wife or long term partner. If he is doing those things for a girl he just started dating or someone he likes, then he is wasting his time. I have seen ladies troll these idiots for free drinks, dinners, and getting free work done around their house. These guys are hoping to get a foot in the door with her romantically but that approach simply does not work.


I'm single so have to disagree with you on this. It could just be a "me" thing - I don't have the need to "troll" for anything - food, drinks, or services - but I'm a sucker for flowers or any genuine offers to help me out. I find those two qualities to be super attractive. 



> A lot of them do end up empty handed. Or they settle. I know quite a few ladies who, post divorce, just date around indefinitely with the best looking guys they can get and then they wonder why they can't find anyone to settle down. They get addicted to that post-divorce/post-breakup promiscuous phase that all their female friends tell them they should experience. I have always had a ton of female friends and they show me their conversations with their female friends, they show me how men try to hit on them online, all of it. I feel like most men simply have no idea what is going on.


We few exceptions, we ALL settle in one way or the other. This is not an exclusive trait of women.

I know plenty of men who behave the same way as you describe above, especially after divorcing a long term relationship. It seems like they are trying to make up for all of the sexual experimenting they missed out in their youth and the sexual experiences they didn't get while they were married.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> I have always had a ton of female friends


Which I find really odd. If anything would turn me off a man, it would be that he had a ton of female friends.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Adding my two cents to the original post...the problem with men:
Feeling that becoming involved in a relationship will give them loss of freedom
The desire for sexual variety, other partners
Fear of losing other relationships, especially with women who are considered friends
Neediness....needs constant propping and admiration, clinginess
Fear of intimacy, cannot show affection or express loving feelings
Seeing women as someone who just wants to be with you for your status, money, or looks
Not taking the time to get to know the women in front of him, and focusing only on her outer beauty
Keeping the magic going by continuing to date
Negativity, procession, demanding behaviors
Passive-aggressive or controlling behaviors


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Which I find really odd. If anything would turn me off a man, it would be that he had a ton of female friends.


Agreed. I personally have never known a man with a lot of female friends that didn't also have boundary issues.

Same with women with a lot of male friends.

I know lots of men that I'm friendly with through work and athletics, but I don't regularly communicate with most and certainly don't hang out with them by myself socially.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

OnTheFly said:


> Just so nobody thinks we're a bunch of old fogeys, we had whooped it up at Oktoberfest in Munich a few days earlier. *Well rounded, we are (hat tip to Yoda).*
> 
> I'm glad Ragnar posted because my original reaction wasn't going to be as polite. The men talked about in the OP aren't people I know.
> 
> *Anyway, so what's up with women......they're all a bunch of ****, amirite?*


Ok, you are pretty much my favorite TAMer today!!!! LOLOL!!!!!!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Manner1067 said:


> I have been accused of being too hard on women, so I promised to write a post on men. We have our own issues gentleman, and these are just a few.
> 
> The problem with guys:
> 
> ...


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## aaronj (Oct 20, 2011)

Manner1067 said:


> I have been accused of being too hard on women, so I promised to write a post on men. We have our own issues gentleman, and these are just a few.
> 
> The problem with guys:
> 
> ...


If by "guys" you mean boys, I agree. What you describe is not very manly.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Manner1067 said:


> We have our own issues gentleman, and these are just a few.


Probably somewhere there are men more or less like you describe, just like there are probably women who match your description.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Which I find really odd. If anything would turn me off a man, it would be that he had a ton of female friends.


It's a valid red flag. I am just lucky in the fact that the same traits I have that allow me to gather female friends also helps me get a relationship. I've also noticed that having some attractive female friends has helped me dating more than it has hindered me, so there is that.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Ok, you are pretty much my favorite TAMer today!!!! LOLOL!!!!!!


Just the other day I was your favorite. How do I win my spot back?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Thinking on this, I have never had a female “friend” I wasn’t interested in romantically. Since I’m not a wimp I took a shot with them and went down in flames.

Acquaintances sure. Occasionally talk to, yeah easy. An actual friend, no.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I find that these posts tend to be a massive generalisation.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Most of this seems to be pretty stereotypical. Perhaps it is true of American men, who knows? Here is my response anyway.



Manner1067 said:


> 1. Not seeing women / girls as they are, but applying some Hollywood or fictitious archetype to them. A girl wants you to love her for who she is: take the time to figure her out.


This is no different to the "stop trying to change him" trope for women. The reality is that men are all different, some are day dreamers who create fantasy versions of women they are attracted to, some don't. Just like women.



> 2. Lack of culture and depth: let’s face it, dudes are all about football, sitcoms, guns, and cars. That stuff isn’t particularly attractive and won’t make women interested. Read a book, learn about art history and go to museums, attend the symphony and the opera, and for God’s sake stop wearing baseball caps.


Well, I mean this is obviously not true. I'm hoping you knew that when you wrote it and were just doing so to get a reaction. 

I'm a classically trained musician (as well as a science PhD) who has racks of opera, symphony, jazz etc music. I know how to tell the difference between a breugel the elder and younger and love pottering around museums. None of this helps with women, absolutely none, at any age that I have been single at least. Why? Because lots of women don't really want someone (nerdy) who is into Mahler and Northern Renaissance art, most want someone good looking who gives the appearance of being deep by having a bit of opera playing in their open topped sports car (well, if we are going to stereotype...).



> 3. The idea that a big N count or notches in the bedpost are something to be proud of. It isn’t. Sleeping around, conquests, etc. are personally and culturally damaging. Most guys are not going to admire you for this, but will be somewhat disgusted. One quality woman is worth 100 low-quality, promiscuous women, and if you can’t land the former …


I agree, it is a bit teenaged, but at the end of the day, having a reasonable amount of experience with women will give you the skills to more effectively engage in mature relationships with them. Of course I'm not saying that somehow we should all be playas or PUAs, but how many men have come to TAM with problems on their marriage that stem, at least in part, due to their lack of experience in relationships?



> 4. Failure to attend to larger cultural, ideological, and political concerns. Guys who don’t read the papers, don’t know what is going on overseas, and are generally oblivious, are kinda pathetic. Women tend to be a bit more in tune when it comes to this stuff (depending on region). Stop watching NASCAR and start paying attention to what is happening in your world.


Again, this may be a uniquely American thing, but being up on world affairs is not going to help you win a woman's heart in my experience in the UK. I've personally seen no evidence that women are generally more well up on world affairs than men. This seems to be much more correlated to level of education than anything else.




> 5. For the guys that are a bit politically / ideologically aware, STOP white knighting and signaling. It is completely pathetic, and no woman respects a guy who bows and scrapes in front of her imaginary outrages, or the complaints of political parties. You need to be your own man, set your own agenda and adhere to the things that are important to you.


I do agree with this one. One must have one's own mind. The reality is that a "white knight" is just a type of "nice guy", using apparently good behaviour as a cover to try and get sex. They are not genuine and lack of authenticity is not a good look.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Lila said:


> Depends. I have plenty of male friends with whom I have had the some really direct conversations (no sugar coating).


I have such a friend, as well. The discussions are extremely candid. It helps tremendously. Your friends are lucky to have you as a resource. Life is complicated.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Sfort said:


> I have such a friend, as well. The discussions are extremely candid. It helps tremendously. Your friends are lucky to have you as a resource. Life is complicated.


I think these types of relationships work as long as the advice is candid AND requested. It's rare I give friends (men or women) unsolicited advice (even if I can see the train headed down the tracks 😑).


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Most of this seems to be pretty stereotypical. Perhaps it is true of American men, who knows? Here is my response anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Look, you don't match the stereotype. Get back to us when you do.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> This is the only issue I have with your list. I wear mine all day because it stops me from getting sunburn on my shiney dome. That being said, when I am not working I don't wear one.


it is fine to wear a baseball cap outdoors or to a game

I mean wearing a cap in a restaurant, cafe, etc.


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## Manner1067 (Feb 22, 2021)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Most of this seems to be pretty stereotypical. Perhaps it is true of American men, who knows? Here is my response anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"lots of women don't really want someone (nerdy) who is into Mahler and Northern Renaissance art"

I disagree with this to an extent. The thing that actually made me successful with women in my 20s (and ultimately with my wife) was my interest in art, literature, classical music / opera, traveling to exotic places, living overseas, etc.

Women want to go _with_ you on adventures, and be exposed to new things. They especially like things that are beautiful and cultured. This is a credit to women, and just because a girl seems simple, uncultured, or expresses interest in guys simply because of their looks, etc., does not mean she won't become interested in the finer things in life.

being into that stuff isn't "nerdy", it is a sign of good breeding and education, and taste. Ask a girl if she would rather go see Transformers at the local cineplex, or go see the London Philharmonic perform Mahler's 5th, and I am willing to bet 9 out of 10 choose the Mahler.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Agree on caps.

I try to read at least one right, one left and one international news source. Don't do NASCAR, but my wife and both like F1, there's something about turning both left and right that's kinda cool. Plus, not a fan of turkey drum sticks.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Manner1067 said:


> "lots of women don't really want someone (nerdy) who is into Mahler and Northern Renaissance art"
> 
> I disagree with this to an extent. The thing that actually made me successful with women in my 20s (and ultimately with my wife) was my interest in art, literature, classical music / opera, traveling to exotic places, living overseas, etc.
> 
> ...


I think that there are lots of people in this big bad world and there are into all sorts of things. I'll take your bet any day of the week.

Women are not all these highly sophisticated culture vultures and neither are men all NASCAR watching red-necks. I mean look around at a concert hall for a Mahler symphony or the local Cineplex for Transformers, is either of them full of one sex over another? Of course not. It is really quite ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

I mean has any woman told you that is why she likes you or is it perhaps just because you are your authentic self when enjoying these things? I have always found the most success with women to be where I am able to be my real self, relaxed and confident. That is the advice I will always give to young men. Sitting through the ring cycle when you don't feel any emotional connection to it try and impress is poor advice.

Also I take great issue with people who describe liking classical music or fine art as indicative of good breading and taste. I've met a huge number of massive douchebags who enjoy high culture, who treat women like **** and are generally poor individuals. Also, one doesn't need to have gone to the right school or have been brought up into the right echelon of society to appreciate high culture. I'm from a working class background and I developed my liking of such things on my own terms, not because I was born into it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> Agree on caps.


Wait until you've lost most of your hair and the sun is beating down hard on your noggin'. 

I'm not going out to mow the yard in a fedora, and the cowboy hat screams too much "Texas" where I live to pull off. Besides, if I'm actually AT a baseball game, what else am I going to wear?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Or men who think they alone have the solution to all of the other men's problems and make lists. 

It's entirely possible for the same person to enjoy both Nascar and a trip to the Ufizzi Gallery.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Wait until you've lost most of your hair and the sun is beating down hard on your noggin'.
> 
> I'm not going out to mow the yard in a fedora, and the cowboy hat screams too much "Texas" where I live to pull off. Besides, if I'm actually AT a baseball game, what else am I going to wear?


I have no hair. OP was talking indoors a d clarified that.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

AGoodFlogging said:


> I think that there are lots of people in this big bad world and there are into all sorts of things.


Even if that's true, believing it requires you to think, and you don't want that! 

Stick with a list of stereotypes.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

SpinyNorman said:


> Even if that's true, believing it requires you to think, and you don't want that!
> 
> Stick with a list of stereotypes.


LOL. Why should someone do that. Shouldn't they just follow the science that is fact checked for us.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> Just the other day I was your favorite. How do I win my spot back?


Just the other day...?? I remember it being more like 2 months ago...

You have to be funny...and Yoda references really help!!! Lol!


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Just the other day...?? I remember it being more like 2 months ago...
> 
> You have to be funny...and Yoda references really help!!! Lol!


Sounds like a lot of work to me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Thinking on this, I have never had a female “friend” I wasn’t interested in romantically. Since I’m not a wimp I took a shot with them and went down in flames.
> 
> Acquaintances sure. Occasionally talk to, yeah easy. An actual friend, no.


I've had several women as friends even when I was single. A few of them probably wanted more but I wasn't pursuing them.

I have had women friends during my marriage but we were either work colleagues or they were friends of Mrs. C as well.

I never went out with the "girls" like I would with the guys while married.

I think acknowledging that you could have sex but are making adult choices works.

I do have different boundaries since being married than I had as a single man obviously.😉


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Enigma32 said:


> Sounds like a lot of work to me.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> Sounds like a lot of work to me.


Lol!! Of course.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

OnTheFly said:


> View attachment 75352


Lolol!!!!

Especially for the MEME-King!!!!


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Since I was born it's been like Moses wandering in the desert trying to find a living guy I could point out as an ideal role model. Maybe run across one every 40 years. Had to rely 99.9% on historical figures for inspiration. Which is kind of sad. And probably the root cause of most of our problems nowadays.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

gaius said:


> Since I was born it's been like Moses wandering in the desert trying to find a living guy I could point out as an ideal role model. Maybe run across one every 40 years. Had to rely 99.9% on historical figures for inspiration. Which is kind of sad. And probably the root cause of most of our problems nowadays.


Your historical role models would probably also fail under closer inspection. No one person can be great at everything. I have role models for different areas. My role model for wealth is much different than my role model for fitness. Pretty sure the wealth guy doesn't even lift bro.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Al_Bundy said:


> Your historical role models would probably also fail under closer inspection. No one person can be great at everything. I have role models for different areas. My role model for wealth is much different than my role model for fitness. Pretty sure the wealth guy doesn't even lift bro.


^^^This


----------



## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

gaius said:


> Since I was born it's been like Moses wandering in the desert trying to find a living guy I could point out as an ideal role model. Maybe run across one every 40 years. Had to rely 99.9% on historical figures for inspiration. Which is kind of sad. And probably the root cause of most of our problems nowadays.


Or it could be that you are able to directly (or at least more directly) observe the actions of the living than the dead, whom you must solely see through the prism of those that have chosen to write or broadcast about them. That being said we see most people we are not directly connected to through the eyes of the media, who tend to be much less kind to the living than the dead.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Hard for me to believe you can’t find living role models. I have a bunch that I consider to be friends.

Examples: professional prize fighters, athletic coaches who work with elite world class athletes, successful small business owners, people who have overcome hard struggles like addiction, men who served our country in the military, police, teachers who taught special education for much of their life and made it to retirement, highly skilled tradesmen who often own their own business, etc... 

Oh yeah how about this one, my own father.

All of these guys have qualities that make them role models and I think they’d stand up against any historical comparison in terms of the character that makes someone great.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

This thread is full of such strong generalisations.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The problem with men is women! 

Can’t live with them, can’t live without them!


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Wemen are the best.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

I have a real question that I think is a problem for men, but it isn't talked about as much -- being afraid to stand up to their significant other about things they want or need. 

WHY do some men seem AFRAID of upsetting women?? They are willing to give in on things or go without things that are important to them - sometimes VERY important - to keep conflict from erupting...but how can that be worth it...?

Isn't that basically "people-pleasing" in the same way women tend to be as well...? Does that make it basically a HUMAN trait, and not a gender-specific trait?


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> I have a real question that I think is a problem for men, but it isn't talked about as much -- being afraid to stand up to their significant other about things they want or need.


It's all about the vagina.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> It's all about the vagina.


Lolol!!!! 

I'm just SO happy you answered...I bow before your superior intelligence and emotional depth...


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I have a real question that I think is a problem for men, but it isn't talked about as much -- being afraid to stand up to their significant other about things they want or need.
> 
> WHY do some men seem AFRAID of upsetting women?? They are willing to give in on things or go without things that are important to them - sometimes VERY important - to keep conflict from erupting...but how can that be worth it...?
> 
> Isn't that basically "people-pleasing" in the same way women tend to be as well...? Does that make it basically a HUMAN trait, and not a gender-specific trait?


Scarcity, fear of losing something so they hold on as tight as they can no matter what. Ironically I think this behavior would cause most women to lose attraction and they would lose the person, reinforcing their scarce mindset.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> I have a real question that I think is a problem for men, but it isn't talked about as much -- being afraid to stand up to their significant other about things they want or need.
> 
> WHY do some men seem AFRAID of upsetting women?? They are willing to give in on things or go without things that are important to them - sometimes VERY important - to keep conflict from erupting...but how can that be worth it...?
> 
> Isn't that basically "people-pleasing" in the same way women tend to be as well...? Does that make it basically a HUMAN trait, and not a gender-specific trait?


I don’t think it is exactly the same. 

From my limited experience of the female “people pleasing” type; full disclosure the Mrs is a self-described people pleaser, the motivation is different. The people pleaser seeks “atta girl!” compliments and avoids criticism at all costs. She doesn’t want to be known to do something poorly.

Conflict avoiding is a bit different. I wouldn’t say she avoids conflict but she deeply wants those compliments for a job well done.

The male who avoids female scrutiny I would consider a run of the mill coward. They’re merely trying to keep status quo. The conflict avoiding is coming from a different place than the need for approval.


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

OnTheFly said:


> Wemen are the best.


@LisaDiane 

Sorry, you might want to unlike that post......I made a mistake......it's supposed to say....

*We men are the best.*

Again, sorry!


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> This is the only issue I have with your list. I wear mine all day because it stops me from getting sunburn on my shiney dome. That being said, when I am not working I don't wear one.


It's okay, Numb. They don't bother me.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Which I find really odd. If anything would turn me off a man, it would be that he had a ton of female friends.


If you're inclusive, it can diffuse some of that. I had a ton of male friends and they all either knew each other already from being in the same extended circle or they met through me. I hooked up plenty of guys to jam together and that sort of thing. I only met with one comment through that, and he had no right because there was no commitment anywhere near on the horizon. Plus I had also put him together with the same guy he commented about using my car later and they ended up in a little local band together. Inclusion is key. If you're hiding a woman you have hopes for or ongoing sexual tension, being covert, that's one thing. If you are introducing who you're dating to everyone you know when you come across them, it goes MUCH better.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Lolol!!!!
> 
> I'm just SO happy you answered...I bow before your superior intelligence and emotional depth...


Sometimes the answers are very simple.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

My two cents. Stop lying to women. Stop acting like you're in love with them when you're just in love with sex. Stop lying to get them into bed, and that includes flattery and all that nonsense. Men and women both sometimes present themselves as one person in the early stages, overdoing niceness. Then once they settle in, they're nothing like that. Be your best self, but not just in the early stages. Commit to it, FFS!


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Stop lying to women. Stop acting like you're in love with them when you're just in love with sex. Stop lying to get them into bed, and that includes flattery and all that nonsense.


Right. Not going to happen. For what it's worth, these things don't mean that the man is not in love with the woman. Remember that when a man has an erection, which is caused by enhanced blood flow to the penis, the blood is robbed from the brain. Without necessary blood flow, the brain is oxygen deprived. When a man's brain is oxygen deprived, he acts like a....man.

And to be serious for a moment, many if not most men don't fall in love until after they've had sex with the woman.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

joannacroc said:


> I agree.
> 
> I can't think of many men I grew up around who liked all the above. My Dad was a big ole nerd who liked historical biographies, travel, music, museums, and documentaries about WWII! Love him to bits. Granted a lot of his male friends loved cars (and some loved women...or in some cases men), but generally people we came across liked something that he did so that's the kind of guy who I grew up around. This nascar, boat-loving, motorcycle-riding womanizer described may be a bit of a stereotype but it's one I am not familiar with - do you think maybe this depends on region/country?


Think, the South, maybe the wide open West!


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> My two cents. Stop lying to women. Stop acting like you're in love with them when you're just in love with sex. Stop lying to get them into bed, and that includes flattery and all that nonsense. Men and women both sometimes present themselves as one person in the early stages, overdoing niceness. Then once they settle in, they're nothing like that. Be your best self, but not just in the early stages. Commit to it, FFS!


This works with mature women.

The young ones have not enough scars to learn/know this.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Right. Not going to happen. For what it's worth, these things don't mean that the man is not in love with the woman. Remember that when a man has an erection, which is caused by enhanced blood flow to the penis, the blood is robbed from the brain. Without necessary blood flow, the brain is oxygen deprived. When a man's brain is oxygen deprived, he acts like a....man.
> 
> And to be serious for a moment, many if not most men don't fall in love until after they've had sex with the woman.


Which only proves my point. I had an ex I'm still friendly acquaintances with who acted like he was "in love" with every woman he slept with. Yeah, that's a problem! He's lying to himself as well as those women. I mean, that's pretty unempathetic. He broke a lot of hearts. I was finally onto him when he told me "I love you" during sex and then took it back the next day, just like on The Nanny and then discovered his "other" dating life. 

I guess there was some kind of love between us because we've kept up for 40 years, but I never slept with him again after he banged my roommate, so-called old friend, in 1979. You can't believe anything a man says in bed, nothing.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

joannacroc said:


> I agree.
> 
> I can't think of many men I grew up around who liked all the above. My Dad was a big ole nerd who liked historical biographies, travel, music, museums, and documentaries about WWII! Love him to bits. Granted a lot of his male friends loved cars (and some loved women...or in some cases men), but generally people we came across liked something that he did so that's the kind of guy who I grew up around. This nascar, boat-loving, motorcycle-riding womanizer described may be a bit of a stereotype but it's one I am not familiar with - do you think maybe this depends on region/country?


How refreshing!


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> This works with mature women.
> 
> The young ones have not enough scars to learn/know this.


When you're young and you're direct with guys, a lot of them don't know what to do with it. Scares them.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> My two cents. Stop lying to women. Stop acting like you're in love with them when you're just in love with sex. Stop lying to get them into bed, and that includes flattery and all that nonsense. Men and women both sometimes present themselves as one person in the early stages, overdoing niceness. Then once they settle in, they're nothing like that. Be your best self, but not just in the early stages. Commit to it, FFS!


The sad reality is, lying to women works so much better than honesty. Men are only going to do what works for them. Every two-bit habitual liar I ever met always scored out of his league with women.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sfort said:


> Right. Not going to happen. For what it's worth, these things don't mean that the man is not in love with the woman. Remember that when a man has an erection, which is caused by enhanced blood flow to the penis, the blood is robbed from the brain. Without necessary blood flow, the brain is oxygen deprived. When a man's brain is oxygen deprived, he acts like a....man.
> 
> And to be serious for a moment, many if not most men don't fall in love until after they've had sex with the woman.


I know a lot of men who did!


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I know a lot of men who did!


I did before but then the time between thinking I had that feeling to sealing the deal was measured in hours.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> The sad reality is, lying to women works so much better than honesty. Men are only going to do what works for them. Every two-bit habitual liar I ever met always scored out of his league with women.


Doesn't make it ethical. Just makes the man narcissistic.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Manner1067 said:


> I have been accused of being too hard on women, so I promised to write a post on men. We have our own issues gentleman, and these are just a few.
> 
> The problem with guys:
> 
> ...


LOL is that all?

Well now I know why I'm SEXY!


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

ccpowerslave said:


> The male who avoids female scrutiny I would consider a run of the mill coward. They’re merely trying to keep status quo. The conflict avoiding is coming from a different place than the need for approval.


It's coming from deep within. Men do not like fighting with women. Men are wired to provide for, and protect women. It isn't cowardice. It is instincts. A man might happily fight for, and even die for, a woman. But don't ask him to fight her.

Suzanne Venker has a few good videos explaining it.
6 Things Women Need to Know About Men


> Men are easy to please and quick to forgive
> A man's identity is inextricably linked to his ability to provide and protect
> Men can only concentrate on one thing at a time
> Men need time to process their emotions
> ...


also
It is not in a man's nature to fight with women


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Maybe... it’s not coming from trying to please them.

I would smash someone’s face into the cement if they pissed my wife off but it has nothing to do with approval or “pleasing”.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

_Men can only concentrate on one thing at a time_
_Men don't "want" sex. They "need" it_
Guess what that "one thing at a time" is. Growing up, I always heard about "blue balls" but considered it to be an attempt at humor. Turns out, there's an element of truth to it. It's not a criticism of men. It's an essential ingredient of the male-female interface that ensures the propagation of the human race.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> The sad reality is, lying to women works so much better than honesty. Men are only going to do what works for them. Every two-bit habitual liar I ever met always scored out of his league with women.


Mileage varies. I turned away far more sex than I accepted and I was extremely upfront and truthful.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Manner1067 said:


> and for God’s sake stop wearing baseball caps.


LOL!!! I just told my BF today how much I love him in his baseball cap. It’s a dark blue and makes his blues eyes look even bluer. He looks very handsome in it.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Sfort said:


> _Men can only concentrate on one thing at a time_
> _Men don't "want" sex. They "need" it_
> Guess what that "one thing at a time" is. Growing up, I always heard about "blue balls" but considered it to be an attempt at humor. Turns out, there's an element of truth to it. It's not a criticism of men. It's an essential ingredient of the male-female interface that ensures the propagation of the human race.


Its ironic that your signature is



> Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


My "first time" was after months of trying with my GF. The feeling after yet another failed attempt wasn't terribly different from getting hit in the crotch. To be fair, until I experienced "blue balls" I also thought it was as much a manipulation tactic as it was a real feeling.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I never liked nascar. It’s cars going in a circle really fast. Sometimes they crash. Boring as hell.


----------



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Sfort said:


> _Men can only concentrate on one thing at a time_
> _Men don't "want" sex. They "need" it_
> Guess what that "one thing at a time" is. Growing up, I always heard about "blue balls" but considered it to be an attempt at humor. Turns out, there's an element of truth to it. It's not a criticism of men. It's an essential ingredient of the male-female interface that ensures the propagation of the human race.


Tom Leykis used to compare it to using a restroom. It's a biological function.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

OnTheFly said:


> @LisaDiane
> 
> Sorry, you might want to unlike that post......I made a mistake......it's supposed to say....
> 
> ...


I knew what you meant, Yoda!!!! You didn't hide it THAT well...Lol!


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t think it is exactly the same.
> 
> From my limited experience of the female “people pleasing” type; full disclosure the Mrs is a self-described people pleaser, the motivation is different. The people pleaser seeks “atta girl!” compliments and avoids criticism at all costs. She doesn’t want to be known to do something poorly.
> 
> ...


This is a great point!!!

I also agree that it's cowardly, and although I can appreciate the spirit from which the attempt comes from, I find it very hard to respect a man who is so afraid of me he doesn't want me to be upset with him ever.

Some of my most favorite people disagree with me alot, which leads to very lively and informative discussions!!! 

Besides, how else can there be honesty, which is essential??


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Sfort said:


> Remember that when a man has an erection, which is caused by enhanced blood flow to the penis, the blood is robbed from the brain. Without necessary blood flow, the brain is oxygen deprived. When a man's brain is oxygen deprived, he acts like a....man.


SO MANY things suddenly make sense with your explanation...
Lol!!!


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> My perception is that men are really easy to make happy. Men are happy at this level, and women are happy at a level way above that... and this creates a problem.


This has been my experience to. Most men feel like they can relax especially once married, concentrate on work and providing and building a life for your family. Romance tends to take a backseat and before long you notice she is secretive and on her phone an inordinate amount of time.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> This has been my experience to. Most men feel like they can relax especially once married, concentrate on work and providing and building a life for your family. Romance tends to take a backseat and before long you notice she is secretive and on her phone an inordinate amount of time.


Got it. When she cheats, it's his fault. Right.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

DownButNotOut said:


> Got it. When she cheats, it's his fault. Right.


Sure seems like it!


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

LisaDiane said:


> This is a great point!!!
> 
> I also agree that it's cowardly, and although I can appreciate the spirit from which the attempt comes from, I find it very hard to respect a man who is so afraid of me he doesn't want me to be upset with him ever.
> 
> ...


Yet, that same man would gladly take a bullet for you, or give up his seat in the life raft for you. Not wanting to fight with you isn't cowardice. It's simply not in his nature.


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Sure seems like it!


I'll just pretend there are snark tags there.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

DownButNotOut said:


> Yet, that same man would gladly take a bullet for you, or give up his seat in the life raft for you. Not wanting to fight with you isn't cowardice. It's simply not in his nature.


Or wanting to avoid the drama!


----------



## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

AGoodFlogging said:


> Or it could be that you are able to directly (or at least more directly) observe the actions of the living than the dead, whom you must solely see through the prism of those that have chosen to write or broadcast about them. That being said we see most people we are not directly connected to through the eyes of the media, who tend to be much less kind to the living than the dead.


I don't think the picture you get is that much different. Both modern and historic figures are subject to commentary from both those who like and dislike them. As long as you can figure out how to sort the bias and garbage out you're good.

Take Robert E Lee for example. Demonized today for his participation in the Confederacy, after the war he was broke but turned down an offer of 10,000 dollars to use his name and image due to the fact he would not be doing any work to earn it. Find me a man nowadays who would turn down the modern equivalent of $162,500 while they're broke. Good luck.

Forget money even. I'd wager the majority of modern men would sell themselves out for 10 Facebook likes if given the chance.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Most men feel like they can relax especially once married, concentrate on work and providing and building a life for your family.


Don’t know if “most” is right or not but certainly applied to me. Marriage was an accomplishment. 

Caveman version: clonk woman on head with club, bring woman back to cave, congrats man you did it!

Yeah not so much... 

As for what @Girl_power said I think she is fairly right. My day yesterday was **** and there’s one thing my wife could have done would have improved it and she didn’t do it. The entire rest of the day she could treat me like **** and I probably wouldn’t care. So yeah I am a simpleton.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> SO MANY things suddenly make sense with your explanation...
> Lol!!!


Biology 101


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownButNotOut said:


> Yet, that same man would gladly take a bullet for you, or give up his seat in the life raft for you. Not wanting to fight with you isn't cowardice. It's simply not in his nature.


I guess I AM asking more about the men who ARE afraid to upset women. 

It's one thing to confidently have an attitude of, I'm not discussing this because it will cause to much conflict with you...and another to have a surrendering attitude of, It's ok honey, you are right and I'm wrong, what else will make you happy???


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> I guess I AM asking more about the men who ARE afraid to upset women.
> 
> It's one thing to confidently have an attitude of, I'm not discussing this because it will cause to much conflict with you...and another to have a surrendering attitude of, It's ok honey, you are right and I'm wrong, what else will make you happy???


You can normally tell when a guy like this is talking to his wife or girlfriend on the phone because their voice will get higher.


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> You can normally tell when a guy like this is talking to his wife or girlfriend on the phone because their voice will get higher.


Yebbut that could also be caused by his underwear being too tight.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> You can normally tell when a guy like this is talking to his wife or girlfriend on the phone because their voice will get higher.


Yeah...I don't know about other women, but a DEEPER voice is way more sexy and appealing for me...Lol!!!


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Yebbut that could also be caused by his underwear being too tight.


That would be impressive. One second you’re talking to them and underwear is fine.

<phone rings>
Guy: <checks caller ID, oops the girlfriend>
<underwear tightens>
Guy: <voice goes up an octave> Yes honey?
Guy: Oh I am just out with CCP and we have a meeting.
Guy: Where? <voice goes up again> Um at the bar.
Guy: <voice goes up again> Yes honey it is 2pm on a Tuesday. Yes I will pick that up for you on the way home.
Guy: <voice up again, now glass is starting to fracture> Yes we are playing Keno and watching the game.

Have seen it many times.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

I haven't read this whole thread, but I'll add my 2¢ regarding the problem with men:

Jumping suddenly into a conversation very opinionated and defensive without first listening to and comprehending anything that has already been stated!


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> That would be impressive. One second you’re talking to them and underwear is fine.


It's the fidgeting. When he gets nervous, he fidgets. When he fidgets, his underwear rides up. When his underwear rides up, his...never mind.


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

LisaDiane said:


> I guess I AM asking more about the men who ARE afraid to upset women.
> 
> It's one thing to confidently have an attitude of, I'm not discussing this because it will cause to much conflict with you...and another to have a surrendering attitude of, It's ok honey, you are right and I'm wrong, what else will make you happy???


It's easy to go from the first thing to the second when the woman won't just let it go and keeps pushing the issue.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

DownButNotOut said:


> It's easy to go from the first thing to the second when the woman won't just let it go and keeps pushing the issue.


True...but silence and refusing to be intimidated by her emotional badgering would work too, wouldn't it?


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

What I'm trying to say is don't assume cowardice when a man won't fight with a woman.

He's geared to provide and protect. He'll happily fight other men all day. But he simply doesn't want to fight with his wife.


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

LisaDiane said:


> True...but silence and refusing to be intimidated by her emotional badgering would work too, wouldn't it?


Then wouldn't we get threads here like "My husband never listens" that point out how controlling and abusive that man is being?

I know what you're saying. It's hard to respect a man that caves to you on everything. I get that. At the same time, I don't think 'cowardice' is the correct term. Because I don't think fear is the primary motivation for why that man is always caving.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> My perception is that men are really easy to make happy. Men are happy at this level, and women are happy at a level way above that... and this creates a problem.


They're easy to make happy as long as the woman is willing to set aside her own happiness and needs to do it. Honestly, though, being happy doesn't necessarily mean they won't seek more happiness elsewhere!


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownButNotOut said:


> What I'm trying to say is don't assume cowardice when a man won't fight with a woman.
> 
> He's geared to provide and protect. He'll happily fight other men all day. But he simply doesn't want to fight with his wife.


Truth!


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownButNotOut said:


> What I'm trying to say is don't assume cowardice when a man won't fight with a woman.
> 
> He's geared to provide and protect. He'll happily fight other men all day. But he simply doesn't want to fight with his wife.


I do think men need to be able to stand up to their women as well as for them but I absolutely agree with you about fighting them.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> They're easy to make happy as long as the woman is willing to set aside her own happiness and needs to do it. Honestly, though, being happy doesn't necessarily mean they won't seek more happiness elsewhere!


I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife. 
I think men will always look at more younger beautiful women, and even women that aren’t that beautiful. It’s a mans character if he chooses to cheat, or stray, it has nothing to do with the actions his wife. 

That’s just my personal opinion.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife.
> I think men will always look at more younger beautiful women, and even women that aren’t that beautiful. It’s a mans character if he chooses to cheat, or stray, it has nothing to do with the actions his wife.
> 
> That’s just my personal opinion.


Of course there are men who has security issues. And many times these men feel not good enough because of their job or history of being bad with women, or mommy issues or they feel emasculated by their wife… these men are equivalent to women with daddy issues, attention seeking women, women who have issues with not seeking loved. These types of people seek out other things and people to make themselves feel better. Or they blame their spouse for why they are unhappy.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife.
> I think men will always look at more younger beautiful women, and even women that aren’t that beautiful. It’s a mans character if he chooses to cheat, or stray, it has nothing to do with the actions his wife.
> 
> That’s just my personal opinion.


Please don't take what I'm going to say as attack. I'm genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts. 
If men only " want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife" why did your husband want the divorce? Which one were you not doing?


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Lila said:


> Please don't take what I'm going to say as attack. I'm genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts.
> If men only " want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife" why did your husband want the divorce? Which one were you not doing?


My divorce? 

I was incredibly unhappy, complained and nagged all the time… well the last 2 years of our marriage. 

He only wanted to be around me when I was happy. He would never apologize so I always was the one to let things go. I decided that I was done doing that… and I stood my ground. He literally wouldn’t come home… stayed overnight in the hospital saying he has an emergency surgery blah blah. I eventually hated him. Hated how he treated me, I knew I deserved better and he didn’t want to deal with how unhappy I was. 

When we talked about whether we should get therapy or divorce he told me that therapy will only make him change for a little while, and eventually he will always resort back to who he really is; and he claims I didn’t like who he really was. (That’s a lie, he took no responsibility for his bad behavior). So we divorced. 


I remember once when he wanted to have sex… as a good Christian wife, I didn’t refuse. Anyway, this is probably tmi but I usually get super wet. Anyway, I’ll never forget we were making out and he wanted to have sex and of course I didn’t refuse but I was dry as a bone. And no matter what he did, I was still dry as a bone. And he got mad and he said wow even your vagina hates me. And he got up and walked away.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Btw, my exH did whatever he wanted to do even if I didn’t want him to. Even if he knew I would get mad. Then when I got mad, he would sleep in the other bedroom or stay overnight in the hospital to punish me. And be would never say sorry. He was very emotionally abusive. 

When I was happy and nice and letting him do whatever he wanted he was great to me. So I always let things go. I couldn’t do that anymore because his treatment got worse and worse and worse. And once I stood my ground, our marriage went down hill really fast.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LoL! I'm sorry for what you experienced with a malfunctioning marriage and husband but the statement he made about your v hating him has me LMAO!😂


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

What was his thing with the hospital? Kind of a weird go to versus maybe an old classic like the couch?

I don’t think I have ever been kicked out or left the bedroom on purpose unless I was sick and barfing every 20 minutes from food or alcohol poisoning.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> LoL! I'm sorry for what you experienced with a malfunctioning marriage and husband but the statement he made about your v hating him has me LMAO!


He was 100% right though. And I even noticed it with my last boyfriend. I really try to save relationships past the expiration date. But with both of those relationships I just lost respect for them. And that was it. My wetness (lack there of) was telling of a bigger problem. And at that point there is nothing else I can do to save the relationship, It’s up to them at that point. When I am done, like many women, I am DONE. My last ex was upset that I was over it so quickly… but it was easy. I was way done. And I think it’s because I maxed out what I could do, and that entails telling them how I feel and what I need from them.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> What was his thing with the hospital? Kind of a weird go to versus maybe an old classic like the couch?
> 
> I don’t think I have ever been kicked out or left the bedroom on purpose unless I was sick and barfing every 20 minutes from food or alcohol poisoning.


I was never kicked out of the bedroom. I am the most loving affectionate, physically clingy human on this planet. He knew taking himself away from me especially when I was sleeping was cruel to me. It was his way of punishing me for calling him out on his bad behavior. In the earlier years I would of walked downstairs and joined him in the twin bed with him. Of course, that means that I was letting go of whatever he did wrong. 

He is a surgeon. He was a resident when we were married. Many times he was on call and had to sleep in the hospital. A lot of times he did it because he didn’t want to come home to a unhappy wife.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife.
> I think men will always look at more younger beautiful women, and even women that aren’t that beautiful. It’s a mans character if he chooses to cheat, or stray, it has nothing to do with the actions his wife.
> 
> That’s just my personal opinion.


Only 3 out of 5 required here LOL


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife.
> I think men will always look at more younger beautiful women, and even women that aren’t that beautiful. It’s a mans character if he chooses to cheat, or stray, it has nothing to do with the actions his wife.
> 
> That’s just my personal opinion.


You are correct.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> My divorce?
> 
> I was incredibly unhappy, complained and nagged all the time… well the last 2 years of our marriage.
> 
> ...


Sometimes your vagina is the first one to know it's not working anymore!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> He is a surgeon. He was a resident when we were married. Many times he was on call and had to sleep in the hospital. A lot of times he did it because he didn’t want to come home to a unhappy wife.


Haha nice. I thought he was checking himself in as a patient or something. I knew a few guys who slept at work on purpose to get away from their house.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm pretty sure I've read that exact advice for men in other threads about setting boundaries. There it was considered good, but here bad?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> My divorce?
> 
> I was incredibly unhappy, complained and nagged all the time… well the last 2 years of our marriage.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing. I don't necessarily believe men are easy to please and I do think they have needs beyond sex, food, a clean home, and a happy pretty wife but in your case, I think @DownByTheRiver had it right "They're easy to make happy as long as the woman is willing to set aside her own happiness and needs to do it." I'm sorry your ex treated you so poorly.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> Thank you for sharing. I don't necessarily believe men are easy to please and I do think they have needs beyond sex, food, a clean home, and a happy pretty wife but in your case, I think @DownByTheRiver had it right "They're easy to make happy as long as the woman is willing to set aside her own happiness and needs to do it." I'm sorry your ex treated you so poorly.


Men's wants and desires ARE simple, yet they aren't. I'd say we require a lot less from a partner than most ladies do and I agree with @Girl_power. If a woman does those things and isn't out there banging anyone else, 99% of men will be thrilled to have her.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> Men's wants and desires ARE simple, yet they aren't. I'd say we require a lot less from a partner than most ladies do and I agree with @Girl_power. If a woman does those things and isn't out there banging anyone else, 99% of men will be thrilled to have her.


I just don't see men as having such simplistic wants and desires. I think believing that food, sex and happy/pretty/non naggy wife is an antiquated idea that makes men seem dumb oafs. 

For example, the idea that all a man needs is sex to be happy. The truth is that most men want to be sexually desired. It goes even further. Some men need their partner to show they are enjoying themselves during the act. 
,
The men I know need loyalty, respect, and admiration. Some need to be needed. Some even need vulnerability from their partner to be happy. 

In my opinion, saying men have three simple needs but women are complicated is ridiculous. No, men are just as complicated as women... Just different.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife.
> I think men will always look at more younger beautiful women, and even women that aren’t that beautiful. It’s a mans character if he chooses to cheat, or stray, it has nothing to do with the actions his wife.
> 
> That’s just my personal opinion.


Wow! Do you really think that? I'm flabbergasted. You have a very bleak view of men.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife.
> I think men will always look at more younger beautiful women, and even women that aren’t that beautiful. It’s a mans character if he chooses to cheat, or stray, it has nothing to do with the actions his wife.
> 
> That’s just my personal opinion.


Pretty accurate. Left a couple things out, but those all generate from this foundation. 
🙂🙂


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Wow! Do you really think that? I'm flabbergasted. You have a very bleak view of men.


I don’t think that is negative towards men at all. Men are typically low maintenance and happy at baseline.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I don’t think that is negative towards men at all. Men are typically low maintenance and happy at baseline.


well, the way I read it is that men want a skinny pretty wife, that gives them lots of sex, cleans the house and cooks, without nagging. I hope I'm wrong...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> well, the way I read it is that men want a skinny pretty wife, that gives them lots of sex, cleans the house and cooks, without nagging. I hope I'm wrong...


Well, since you don't want a wife who is skinny, pretty and *gives lots of sex* LOL: couldn't say that with a straight face), cleans the house and cooks without nagging - just what do you as a man want in a wife?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> When we talked about whether we should get therapy or divorce he told me that therapy will only make him change for a little while, and eventually he will always resort back to who he really is; *and he claims I didn’t like who he really was.* (That’s a lie, he took no responsibility for his bad behavior). So we divorced.


I've never met your husband and I don't like him. For a doctor to hold an attitude toward the mentally challenged such as he holds is despicable. He isn't old enough to have the God complex that older doctors are known for so he is just an asshole.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Well, since you don't want a wife who is skinny, pretty and *gives lots of sex* LOL: couldn't say that with a straight face), cleans the house and cooks without nagging - just what do you as a man want in a wife?


What's described above is a servant, not a wife. A slave with benefits. Would you want that? With my wife, I would share everything: child minding, house chores, cooking, laundry... I don't want to be dependent on my wife for everything. Sex goes with the marriage, with variable results...


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife.


A man can get food at McDonalds.
Few men are clean freaks. A clean home in and of itself is overrated.
A wife can restrict a man's freedom to hunt, fish, prowl, watch sports on TV, or do nothing. Not every man wants a wife.
Some women can be too skinny.

However...

It's all about the V. There is no substitute.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

I think Maslow's hierarchy of needs is equally applicable to both women and men. The idea that men are simple and women are complex is a quite damaging cultural trope for both sexes. It leads to the neglect of men's emotional needs and the development of their emotional resilience and it also allows men and women to think that they should not try and meet female needs because they are ephemeral and unknowable.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> What's described above is a servant, not a wife. A slave with benefits. Would you want that? With my wife, I would share everything: child minding, house chores, cooking, laundry... I don't want to be dependent on my wife for everything. Sex goes with the marriage, with variable results...


And, yet, I think there are a certain percentage of men who really do want just that - lots of sex and to be taken care of in a serf-like manner by someone with no apparent needs of her own while he's free to do whatever he wants. It's certainly what my ex-husband wanted in a wife. In fact, he seemed to have zero awareness that marriage should, or even could, be anything else. 

Of course, I realize that not all men are like my ex-husband. My second husband wants to have a fully-formed, mutually interdependent, _partner_ relationship with a grown woman. We're a much better match. 

Over generalizing what either sex does or is, pays no compliments to either yourself or to the "them" of your choosing. It's easy to fall into the idea that all men A or all women B. Continuing to believe that must provide some sort of useful benefit to some people, I suppose. But I've found I'm much happier when I don't allow generalization to rule my thinking. Viewing people of either sex as the complex individuals they are seems to result in more happiness and much less bitterness than clinging like grim death to ideas that 'all men are...'.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> What's described above is a servant, not a wife. A slave with benefits. Would you want that? With my wife, I would share everything: child minding, house chores, cooking, laundry... I don't want to be dependent on my wife for everything. Sex goes with the marriage, with variable results...


I don’t think it’s a slave. 
I don’t mean for the wife to do all the work. I’m saying, if I’m single… I have to do everything anyways. Men should clean up after themselves, as should women. But I’m just saying men like a special treat every once in a while. They like to come home to a happy wife, get greeted with a kiss, have a warm meal for them. Yes men should cook too. But men like when a sandwich is brought to them, or a treat or whatever. This is what makes men feel loved. Being cared for in this way.

To me, that’s very easy and simple to do that. Men like those physical things. Whereas I need more emotional love and support that is not so cut and dry.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I think I’m actually happy with 2/5 on @Girl_power ’s list.

One huge missing component is intelligence. At least for me I want a lady I can have discussions with about complex concepts even if she’s not educated.

I’d have trouble being with someone for anything other than a liaison unless she has it going on upstairs. Even if she’s hitting all of GP’s list if I can’t talk with her and she can’t hang with my friends it’s a non starter for me.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> What's described above is a servant, not a wife. A slave with benefits. Would you want that? With my wife, I would share everything: child minding, house chores, cooking, laundry... I don't want to be dependent on my wife for everything. Sex goes with the marriage, with variable results...


Translation: I can cook my own meals, clean my own house and wash my own clothes. What I want is SEX damn it! And, lots of it.

See, was that so hard?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I admit that I am not that evolved in terms of relationships. 
I enjoy the manly things about men. Yes I also want him to be intelligent and emotionally intelligent and loving and supportive. But I enjoy the “manly” things. 

And I think that many men enjoy the feminine qualities about women. The little attention to detail that they don’t really care about but kinda sorta really like. The softness of our skin, the softness of our emotions, our need to dote over people and take care of them.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Translation: I can cook my own meals, clean my own house and wash my own clothes. What I want is SEX damn it! And, lots of it.
> 
> See, was that so hard?


I think women make a home. They create a loving environment that men can’t do as well. Women make families.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Whereas I need more emotional love and support that is not so cut and dry.


I couldn't care less about the sandwich, I want emotional love and support too!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Translation: I can cook my own meals, clean my own house and wash my own clothes. What I want is SEX damn it! And, lots of it.
> 
> See, was that so hard?


Funny... but can I just point out that I did have lots of sex for 20 of our 30 years relationship, and it was good sex, so it wasn't too bad...  But seriously, I look for equality in a relationship... I'm not interested in the old fashion dynamic of husband goes to work, wife stays at home.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> I think women make a home. They create a loving environment that men can’t do as well. Women make families.


Without Mrs. Conan, the boys and I would have been running around the house naked, eating off paper plates and working on motorcycles in the living room.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I think men want sex, food, a clean home, and a happy wife that doesn’t nag…. Oh and a skinny, pretty wife.
> I think men will always look at more younger beautiful women, and even women that aren’t that beautiful. It’s a mans character if he chooses to cheat, or stray, it has nothing to do with the actions his wife.
> 
> That’s just my personal opinion.


Add "faithfulness" and drop "skinny" and you're 100% correct. Oh, and we tolerate nagging pretty darn well as long as the sex is good.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I admit that I am not that evolved in terms of relationships.


We are what we are... but I would feel a bit "suffocated" in the kind of relationship you describe... no offence!


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> We are what we are... but I would feel a bit "suffocated" in the kind of relationship you describe... no offence!


Why suffocated? I find it strange when spouses rarely hang out together or see each other and live completely separate lives.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Why suffocated?


It's all that "being cared for"... yes, nice, but I would hate it after a while. I had a girlfriend like that once... it didn't last long....


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

I think I have a good bit in common with @In Absentia. 

If I'm hungry, it wouldn't occur to me that I should ask someone else to bring me food. If I'm making the food, buying the ingredients makes sense. Since I'm already in the kitchen, putting dirty dishes in the dishwasher or emptying it while something is simmering or whatever is just efficient use of time. If I see a mess or task that needs to be done, asking someone else to do it is just kind of weird. Its not like the normal household chores (pushing a mop, broom, or vacuum cleaner, washing windows / mirrors, or cleaning sinks and toilets) are physically demanding or require any special skills.

I cannot give myself a hug. Being affectionate towards myself is a poor substitute. Having a particular body type preference would be specific to the individual as well as how important it was. I'd probably think of a "skinny" SO as fragile though I've never had one so I'm not sure.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Without Mrs. Conan, the boys and I would have been running around the house naked, eating off paper plates and working on motorcycles in the living room.


Ah, Lord of the Flies!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Funny... but can I just point out that I did have lots of sex for 20 of our 30 years relationship, and it was good sex, so it wasn't too bad...  But seriously, I look for equality in a relationship... I'm not interested in the old fashion dynamic of husband goes to work, wife stays at home.


I hate to belabor the point; BUT, you valued sex above all else in your marriage and that's what set the marriage on fire. You have now reevaluated your priorities and that may pay off in the future for you. As of now, the horse you've been riding is dead, kaput, fini. 

Take the lessons you've learned into your next relationship. One lesson I hope you've learned is that anger will never be the key to unlock the vault of intimacy.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

From what I have read here and have experienced in real life, much like women, no two men are the same. 

I'll also add that what someone claims to need may not line up with their actions. Anecdotal evidence, I know more than one man who was in a long term relationship with the "stepford-ish-like" woman only to dump her and marry the woman who was anything but. The opposite is true too. 

Moral of the story.... men and women are not monoliths.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

@Girl_power you are spot on in your analysis here and I think this knowledge will serve you well.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Lila said:


> Moral of the story.... men and women are not monoliths.





Lila said:


> I just don't see men as having such simplistic wants and desires. I think believing that food, sex and happy/pretty/non naggy wife is an antiquated idea that makes men seem dumb oafs.


Having simple wants and desires from a relationship doesn't make men dumb oafs at all. I already have everything else in my life, basically. The things that @Girl_power named are the only things I, as a man, really need or want a woman to provide. We are low maintenance. 

Men are not monoliths but generalizations DO work on occasion. If a woman concentrates on providing the simple things Girlpower mentioned, she will make most men happy.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> Having simple wants and desires from a relationship doesn't make men dumb oafs at all. I already have everything else in my life, basically. The things that @Girl_power named are the only things I, as a man, really need or want a woman to provide. We are low maintenance.
> 
> Men are not monoliths but generalizations DO work on occasion. If a woman concentrates on providing the simple things Girlpower mentioned, she will make most men happy.


I used to think that way too, then my husband asked for a divorce. With one exception, I did provide the simple man's needs. It wasn't enough. He needed someone who he could be emotionally vulnerable with. He wanted someone who he could share his hobbies. He wanted someone that was more independent than me (apparently). So no, I'm not buying what you're selling.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> Having simple wants and desires from a relationship doesn't make men dumb oafs at all. I already have everything else in my life, basically. The things that @Girl_power named are the only things I, as a man, really need or want a woman to provide. We are low maintenance.
> 
> Men are not monoliths but generalizations DO work on occasion. If a woman concentrates on providing the simple things Girlpower mentioned, she will make most men happy.


Same here. My needs in a relationship are fairly simple.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Lila said:


> I used to think that way too, then my husband asked for a divorce. With one exception, I did provide the simple man's needs. It wasn't enough. He needed someone who he could be emotionally vulnerable with. He wanted someone who he could share his hobbies. He wanted someone that was more independent than me (apparently). So no, I'm not buying what you're selling.


I think there’s a happy medium. Both partners need their own life and hobbies and they need a connection with each other outside living under the same roof.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lila said:


> I used to think that way too, then my husband asked for a divorce. With one exception, I did provide the simple man's needs. It wasn't enough. He needed someone who he could be emotionally vulnerable with. He wanted someone who he could share his hobbies. He wanted someone that was more independent than me (apparently). So no, I'm not buying what you're selling.


I've been trying to feel myself out on this one.

I have a lot more in Mrs. Conan than food, sex and her being fit.

She did cover those bases just fine for the years I worked while she mostly took care of the boys and the home but she also makes me laugh more and harder than anyone I have ever known, she became a fight fan and now enjoys them as much as me even though she didn't like them at first, she has attempted to do activities with me that she never did before (downhill skiing) and is always up to go on some adventure with me, we explore everything together wether it's pop culture, movies, new places, restaurants, etc. and I am reciprocal in exploring what she is interested in.

She is my biggest fan and really into me and always has been and I cherish, love and appreciate her more than anyone on earth.

I'm objective when I claim I don't think I would marry again if she passed away.

She has been so much more to me than food, sex and a fit partner. She has also been my confidant and knows more than anyone else about me, warts and all. I need all of that, everything she brings to the table and that includes her weaknesses and vulnerability as well.

I'm going to have to agree with you @Lila .

Unless I'm misreading something, I need more and I have been blessed enough to have it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I think there’s a happy medium. Both partners need their own life and hobbies and they need a connection with each other outside living under the same roof.


Of course. The danger is becoming so obsessed with your hobby that it leaves little to no room for anything, or anyone else.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I've been trying to feel myself out on this one.
> 
> I have a lot more in Mrs. Conan than food, sex and her being fit.
> 
> ...


That's really sweet @ConanHub . 

In my hobby, I meet a lot of older couples and I always ask what's the secret to their longetivity. The happiest of the couples sound a lot like what you describe having with Mrs Conan.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Lila said:


> From what I have read here and have experienced in real life, much like women, no two men are the same.


Amen.

And there must be other qualities beyond the simplified list suggested that I bring to the table for Batman given that I’m not skinny, cooking isn’t my bag, and occasionally ‘remind’ him of something haha. I’m not really a nag though. House is clean enough which we both contribute to. And as for being ‘pretty’ well that’s of course subjective; he does find me physically attractive though and we share sexual chemistry and intimate affection.

There’s a whole lot more to a person though - especially in daily life and living together and which includes who we are with shaping the dynamic of a relationship.

As for an unexpected sandwich made, yes that does speak to him. Bill Burr was onto something. And much like ole Bats bringing me a cuppa tea in bed in the morning 😆


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> I hate to belabor the point; BUT, you valued sex above all else in your marriage and that's what set the marriage on fire. You have now reevaluated your priorities and that may pay off in the future for you. As of now, the horse you've been riding is dead, kaput, fini.
> 
> Take the lessons you've learned into your next relationship. One lesson I hope you've learned is that anger will never be the key to unlock the vault of intimacy.


Yes, it's a lesson I have learnt. I wouldn't say I valued sex above all else, but it was definitely up there. To me it was the glue to our relationship. I wasn't aware of how much my childhood issues impacted on me, so I was lost when the same old pattern appeared. I guess I wasn't mature enough to deal with it.


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