# Feeling financially used by wife.



## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

It's tax time.
I make about 7 times what my wife makes.

She pays her car, gas, student loans, electric bill, and girly things. 
I pay everything else.

She has a job where they don't withhold taxes. And she didn't take my advice to save 10% each check for the years taxes and she hasn't done it this year either.

Without her I pay $2200 in taxes.
When I add her income the total goes up to $7200!

I thought ok I pay 7/8th and she pays 1/8th. 
I'm rethinking that now that I saw the $155 expense for shoes on her cc statement (which I thought we agreed she would never use).

I feel used. 
She is implicitly forcing to pay for things I hate: $155 for a pair of shoes!!! She is a hair dresser so I understand good shoes because of all the standing but $155!?! I say implicitly because in the end I am enabling her by paying for everything. right?
(I had to rewrite the above like 20 times - I had to think really hard to figure out what was really eating me)

Another example, When we meet she had approximately 4k in credit card debt. I've helped her manage her money and in 2 years she has $0 CC debt and 13K roth ira. It's like she's taking me for granted financially.

#1- I'm thinking of doing taxes separately and making her see her old tax person. I'm hoping when she sees her $5k bill she can realize that taxes are not a joke you have to follow the rules.

#2- But in the long term I'm thinking she should pay 1/7th of all the expenses: groceries, going out to eat, car insurance etc.
I think this will make me fell less used.

What are some thoughts on how I feel, #1 and #2?


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## FascinatingLady (Mar 6, 2016)

I fail to see how her car and electric bill don't come to 1/7th of the bills if the house is paid for. Just gasgas$ is over $200 a month for me plus repairs and insurance means over half my check. Then paying the electric bill is another $200. I can't even afford that with what I make, but my husband keeps insisting I pay for every project around here because he pays $480 mortgage. Plus he doesn't come home from work all week and stays in an RV so has to pay electric there. 

Percentages are the fair way to figure a budget, but I am sure she has the right to decide how much to spend on shoes considering she is working. No, you are not enabling that by paying for other things. She pays the electric bill and so deserves credit for that. Also consider what she is paying for the car is no way 1/7 of what you pay for yours unless you are way out of line on your car payment. To make it fair, you would have to pay 7/8 of her car and she would pay 1/8 of yours. Going out to eat is not an expense, that is a luxury. Take her out less and let her know if she wants to go out more, she can take you out and pay the bill. Groceries would depend on who does the shopping. If it is you, then maybe she could shop for and fix a meal one day a week. If it is her, then I'd make her pay 100% of the grocery bill and you just make sure the budget doesn't end up where she pays more than 1/7 overall. Don't include clothes in your expense list either. Just bills that have to be paid every month. All the discretionary things each of you can spend your leftover money on. 
However, I fail to see how all this is going to produce $5,000 for the taxes. You are far from financially abused. No, it isn't fair for you to pay her taxes. If all else fails, you may have to file yours alone until she starts putting some money aside for them. 

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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

If you make 7/8ths of the money and she makes 1/8th, you should pay 7/8ths of everything and she should pay 1/8th of everything. Add up all the bills,* including taxes*, and divide it up that way and it will be fair.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

My car is paid off
She pays about 40 a month in gas
I pay the car insurance.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

I also pay for her car repairs new tires etc.
She only pays what I said above. Nothing else.

She just started paying the electric bill after I went ballistic over a 260 bill in Nov. I live in FL we only use the a.c. no heater needed. Now the bill comes to about 50 a month.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sounds like you better be careful what you wish for, because when you add it all up including the so-called "her expenses" and make her responsible for 1/8 of the total, she might end up paying less than she is now. Once you start paying 7/8 of her car, student loans, gas, electric....especially if you don't have a mortgage or car payment yourself. What do you pay? Insurance and food? Cable & phones?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

40 a month is gas? lol you'd have a heart attack if you saw my budget.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Have you had a sit down with her about the implications of all this, and let her know that you should file separately this year until she starts saving money to pay for her part of the taxes.


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

$155 is not that high for a pair of women's shoes. I don't see how you can attribute the marriage penalty as her fault. If married filing separate makes more sense for both of you financially, do it, but the combined tax separate tax bills are still both of yours as a married couple. I think it's nice that you helped her pay off her debt and increase her ira, but you seem very "mine" and "hers" which I think is a disasterous in a marriage, what happened to "ours". If you need to talk to her about agreeing before spending on big purchases because you're trying to save or pay off debt, then do that, but I don't think you should make her feel bad or less than you or deserving of less because you "make 7 times what she makes."


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## NWCooper (Feb 19, 2013)

I can see why you would be upset with her not saving out the 10% each paycheck for end of year taxes. You have told her this needed to be done and this is the 2nd year it has not been done. I would somehow make her accountable for this. As far as the other bills, they are your responsibility together...not hers and mine. I am guessing when you married her you knew you would always make more income than her, was it a problem for you then? It's past time to sit down and have a frank discussion about financial matters so no one feels taken advantage of, but this mine and hers attitude isn't the way to go about it.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

You pay 2200 by yourself. With her working your combined tax bill goes up 5200. You are not really clear on this but I assume that you would owe 2200 on April 15th without her extra pay because you did not have enough withheld from your paycheck. I assume she makes about 20K per year and that you are in the 25 percent tax bracket Filing jointly, means her income goes right on top of yours so she owes 25% of whatever she makes. Or, you could look at it the other way - She would only pay 10% on her income from dollar one - which means because you work, she owes 3000 more. So really, you owe her 3000 assuming she paid the first 2000.

You realize that between 0 and 18500 that tax rate is 10%?? 18500 to 78500 its 15%, 78500 to 150000 its 25% (I am going off memory so these are not exact but real close) 

My opinion, she should pay the bottom tear taxes and you should make up the extra. SO next year, you need to take out about $5000 more out of your pay for FEDERAL TAXES if you do not want to owe money at the end of the year. Of course she needs to take out the 10%.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

Thanks for the response guys.

By mine and hers I meant bills that we are each responsible to be on top of not necessarily pay. If it's "her bill" and she has the money then she pays, but if she doesn't have the money then she has to let me know when it's due so I can pay. This gives me a break from being on top of everything all the time.

I don't mind the price of the shoes. She works so she can buy whatever she wants. The problem I have is I pay for her brakes $140 hoping she'll save $6500 for this years roth but then she shows up the next month with $155 pair of shoes. 

If she has the money why didn't she pay? I could have used that $140 for something else. Instead of implicitly buying a pair of shoes.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@FascinatingLady
I'm not trying to make up for the tax difference. I don't care about that.

The way I feel is she is paying less than if we filed separately but then goes and buys a new outfit for $200 (example). I feel like if she had the extra money she should have helped out more with the tax bill. 

It's like she puts in the minimum then it's up to me to deal with everything else.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@Fitnessfan
I do come across as very mines and hers thanks for helping me see that.

I don't mind the marriage penalty I'll pay my 7/8th share no problem. Or the whole thing 
if need be.

The problem I think I'm having is that after paying the taxes she goes off and 
spends. If that's the case then she should have helped more with the taxes. This happens in general not just with taxes.

I'm not trying to make her feel bad that's why I took a deep breath and asked here first before going home and starting an argument.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@NWCooper
I think you hit the nail on the head how to make her more accountable?

I knew I would always make more money than her it's never been a problem.


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## BeautyBeast (Feb 3, 2015)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> @FascinatingLady
> I'm not trying to make up for the tax difference. I don't care about that.
> 
> The way I feel is she is paying less than if we filed separately but then goes and buys a new outfit for $200 (example). I feel like if she had the extra money she should have helped out more with the tax bill.
> ...


Obviously she won't be able to buy shoes if she pays as per your requirements. Would you expect her to dress in GoodWill because she makes 7 times less? Seems to me the topic is not about money, it's about gaining more control over the wife.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

New,

You've got a very strong point; she didn't put aside money for taxes and it cost you $5k!

You have a very weak point; she paid $155 for shoes.

Don't mention both in the same discussion, she'll focus on your weak argument, painting you as a cheapskate, and ignore the important thing (the tax situation).

The taxes are the big issue here. Only focus on that.


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## BeautyBeast (Feb 3, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> New,
> 
> You've got a very strong point; she didn't put aside money for taxes and it cost you $5k!
> 
> ...


I agree with Buddy400. You are correct expecting her to be responsible with her taxes but your complaining about shoes seems miserable and builds some compassion to her.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

Let me summarize my frustration:

My employer takes out taxes. I was short about 2k this year so I have to pay that.

My wife doesn't pay taxes during the year. Her bill this year is about 5k.

According to our 1/8th her 7/8th me rule, I now have to pay about 6k and she pays about 1k.

Why? because she chose not to set aside money during the year for taxes. Hence the title of the thread.

Am I off by thinking this is not fair?
If not how to hold her accountable?


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@BeautyBeast and @Buddy400

Thanks for the feedback.
I tried to use the shoes as an example of her spending instead of saving up. I'll drop that.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

NewBMan, you have every right to be upset. I dealt with the same issues in my marriage. I made more than my ex and never expected anything from her (my bad!) as far as paying the bills. I paid all of the household bills - mortgage, second, utilities, insurance, phone, internet, cell service and TV. In addition, I paid for our daughters education and paid my step son's insurance and cell phone bills throughout college. I learned early on not to bother asking her for any money if I thought I was going to be short. Anytime I did, I was told how she was pretty short herself and didn't have any to give. Towards the end, she had bought a brand new car and she paid it off in a year. I didn't mind since she had promised that we would do the same for me once hers was paid off. Of course, it was right around that time that she decided she didn't want to be married anymore. So that plan went out the window along with everything else.
Bottom line is you need to set boundaries and enforce them. I now know, that that was something I should have been doing all along. Instead I got taken to the cleaners because I thought I was doing the right things. In the meantime she was p1ssing away her $55k salary on new clothes, trips with her girl friends and other frivolities. She even blew the $4000 she was supposed to be saving for our daughters wedding. 
You have every right to be concerned. You have an unbalanced arrangement and it is not fair that she should expect you to just take care of it.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

$155 isn't a lot for a pair of shoes. Especially not fashion-oriented shoes. Designer heels can cost $400- 600 easy, so she's not shopping 5th avenue. Talking about comfortable, lol. You don't get it. 

I can see her needing to put back money for taxes so that you aren't hit with a large amount due during tax season. But you are really being tit for tat with her. She's working. She's paying some bills. You're the man. Be a man. If you wanted a financial equal to pull half the weight, it sounds like you married the wrong person. Unless she's working/earning way under her potential, I think you're being stingy. Maybe I'm old school, but whatever I make is ours and vice versa. We make financial decisions together. As a man you put your family first and don't keep tabs by making sure there's absolute fairness in the distribution. 7/8th rule is the lamest, most unattractive thing I've ever heard in my life. 


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> Let me summarize my frustration:
> 
> My employer takes out taxes. I was short about 2k this year so I have to pay that.
> 
> ...


Use this year's tax filing and estimate your combined yearly income for next year. 

Determine what you need to withhold from YOUR check each pay period to cover those taxes. 

Either adjust your with holdings with HR to cover it, or put the money aside yourself. 

If her income is not automatically taxed 

AND 

she has no means to have automatic deductions taken out of her pay (I assume she's making a lot of tips she has to claim) 

AND

you know she's bad with money and wouldn't do well with a private savings account for the taxes

Why set her up to fail? You do the taxes, you take over making sure they are done correctly. That includes estimating and making sure with holdings are correct. 

We don't do separate finances. But - ask her to pay a slightly larger share of something if you must to make up for the difference that you are withholding to account for her taxes thru the year.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> Thanks for the response guys.
> 
> By mine and hers I meant bills that we are each responsible to be on top of not necessarily pay. If it's "her bill" and she has the money then she pays, but if she doesn't have the money then she has to let me know when it's due so I can pay. This gives me a break from being on top of everything all the time.
> 
> ...



Unless you have discussed it and come to an agreement, you are holding a covert contract with her. She doesn't share your financial values. You must explicitly agree to something before you can hold her accountable. Paying for brakes and then hoping she puts money into a roth and then getting upset when she doesn't - does that sound logical?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

OP you better learn quick that half your paycheck is her paycheck.

Sorry bud, your married now. You think $155 for shoes is bad?

See how much you spend if you try divorcing this woman. If I were you, I'd keep my mouth shut.

You're being a little ridiculous.... So she sucks with money? Most people do.

I'd hardly call her a maniacal spendoholic the way you describe her.

I'm guessing she works so she doesn't have to deal with your frugalness and asking for money.

Consider her earned income an "allowance" and let it go. You'll be far better off. 1/8th is peanuts.


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## NWCooper (Feb 19, 2013)

Your big issue here is the taxes. The big discussion should be about that. Now at tax time is the time to have it. If you can't do an auto draft into a savings account each payday, then it must be done manually and x amount put into savings each payday to cover that 10%. It's much easier to make small deposits all year Instead of coming up with a lump sum at year end. If she had any other job, that money would be coming out automatically.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

My opinion, what she is paying seems about right with the huge income disparity. 

What is not right is her not paying any taxes. In the grand scheme of things it makes no difference but it would make things seem more 'fair' to you. I'd acquire the quarterly tax payment forms fro the IRS and fill them out for her. On each due date hand her the form and ask for a check. If she doesn't have the bucks have ask her why she feels she does not need to pay her taxes like 150 million or so other americans? Depending on the answer a big argument may ensue, or not. 

I'd base the amount on the lower tax brackets, you need to suck up the bigger amount which is due to filing jointly married because you have the income.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

It seems that so many are fixated on the cost of a pair of shoes. In case you missed it - the OP paid $5000 in extra taxes (in addition to more in the form of brakes, car repairs etc, etc) because she didn't have the money because she had spent it on a bunch of frivolous things. The OP has every right to feel he was abused in this situation. But yeah, he should STHU because she could've wasted a lot more.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Why shouldn't he spend it on her? Car repairs, brakes and even taxes are really not something he should be crying about. Hardly frivolous costs. His disposable income is way higher than hers and it's his damn wife. I assume he loves this woman so a FUNCTIONAL vehicle would be better than carting her around...

Now if she was blowing money on vacations, spas, and expensive clothing. He might have a legit gripe. The best he could come up with is $155 shoes that are apparently WORK RELATED because she STANDS ALL DAY. He hasn't come up with ONE single expense that seems utterly wasteful.

Let's assume she's a lousy hair dresser and only makes $30k a year. That means he makes $210k a year. Yet he expects her to pay for ALL her own expenses. Who can live on that, even without paying the mortgage, which I'm guessing is under his name only and he would be paying anyway because he lives there? This is best case scenario and the income disparity is only worse the more the wife makes based on his 7:1 ratio.

This guy is ridiculous and you know it. He treats his spouse like a roommate. Most spouses with this much income disparity wouldn't even bother working. OP keep your mouth shut if you want a happy marriage. You can't take it with you dude. You really just come off as an absurd penny pincher.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

That's right! Just STHU! Who are you to ask that your wife pay her own way! You signed the paper, now you are obligated to bend over and take it, however she wants you to! If she wants to spend all of her money and not save for her taxes, that is on you, since you signed the papers! Never forget once you sign the papers your life is over and you only live to serve her! Now stop your whining and get to work! Your wife might need something! Heck, get off the computer for that matter! Why are you taking time away from your servile duties by coming here and complaining!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

@Ynot

His wife is NOTHING like your ex-wife.

Stop projecting.....


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> @Ynot
> 
> His wife is NOTHING like your ex-wife.
> 
> Stop projecting.....


Who is projecting? The OPs wife cost him money that he could have spent on something else because she wouldn't save any of her own money to pay her own taxes. That isn't projection, that is a fact. For all we know his wife might have worked a lot more had she not had some one funding the rest of her life for her and she probably would have made sure she had money put back to pay her own taxes. Instead she went out an spent it all. Stop being a doormat!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Who is projecting? The OPs wife cost him money that he could have spent on something else because she wouldn't save any of her own money to pay her own taxes. That isn't projection, that is a fact. For all we know his wife might have worked a lot more had she not had some one funding the rest of her life for her and she probably would have made sure she had money put back to pay her own taxes. Instead she went out an spent it all. Stop being a doormat!


So for you....

$5k tax bill from working, $155 shoes for working and let's say $2k for car repairs and brakes driving to and from work = $7,155 for work related expenses

Is as frivolous as:

$55k in expensive clothes and trips with the girls plus $4,000 daughter's wedding money squandered = $59,000 spent screwing you over plus attorney's fees for the divorce

Give me a break.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@Ynot 
Wow sorry you had to go through that.

Your story really resonates with me and I'm trying to unbind myself from the mess that I've made with her expecting me to do all of this. I mentioned shoes and taxes but that's just the tip of the iceberg. The real story is more like what you wrote.

For example, last month it was $800 groceries + $400 going out to eat. It's just us 2! 
When I bring it up she blamed it on the different brand of cat food I switched too.

When I put my foot down she goes out to eat by herself with "her" money. while I eat a sandwich because I know we already blew past the going out to eat budget for the month.

And sometimes a man just wants to stay home and eat a sandwich you know? The hell with that new place everyone tells her is soo great.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@rich84
I have actually explicitly told her I'll pay for X because I want you to hit that savings goal.

I'm at my wits end. I am grasping at straws with this 7/8th thing but what do you suggest?

I completely agree with your be the man comment. But shouldn't a man teach responsibility and accountability? 
I want her to be accountable and appreciate my support more by hitting her savings goal.
But instead It's expense after expense after expense and when ever I put my foot down it's an argument about how cheap I am.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@kag123

Excellent advise thank you!

It's going to suck asking her for a monthly check for me to put into a "tax" savings account for her though.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@BetrayedDad

I didn't want to put everything up here and sound like a complainer so I just used a small example and I come off as a complainer anyway : )

spas - check
clothing - check (don't know if it's expensive - $200 is really the limit for any 1 item)
vacations not that expensive as I can actually disagree and she can't go to the mall while I'm at work and pick up a vacation behind my back.

Here are my priorities
pay bills
pay taxes
save for retirement
THEN buy yourself an elephant if you want.

Hers aren't actually the opposite but she's more care free about how she goes about it. How to make them align more?


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> So for you....
> 
> $5k tax bill from working, $155 shoes for working and let's say $2k for car repairs and brakes driving to and from work = $7,155 for work related expenses
> 
> ...


Wow, talk about projecting! I was discussing the OP, but I guess you like being a doormat. I merely said I could relate to the OP based on my own experience. Apparently the OP should just STFU because you have decided the amounts don't matter. Keep being a door mat if you want. I just hope you don't get betrayed again. It wasn't your fault!


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Ynot said:


> Wow, talk about projecting! I was discussing the OP, but I guess you like being a doormat. I merely said I could relate to the OP based on my own experience. Apparently the OP should just STFU because you have decided the amounts don't matter. Keep being a door mat if you want. I just hope you don't get betrayed again. It wasn't your fault!


You seem to trigger hard every time we post to each other so I'll leave it up to OP to decide what's reasonable. You're too blind to see any type of reason.

I guess the wife should just life live like she makes $30k a year while he gets to live like he makes $210k a year rather than they both live like they make $250k a year as a married couple. 

Keep going down this path @NewBoundariesMan and you and @Ynot can both start your own thread together about how your wives raped you in your respective divorces. 

You don't want to be bitter and jaded like this guy. Trust me, let it go OP. It's not worth it over a few bucks. 

Good luck.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> @BetrayedDad
> 
> I didn't want to put everything up here and sound like a complainer so I just used a small example and I come off as a complainer anyway : )
> 
> ...


So, you have no hobbies and her income never helps the household?


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> You seem to trigger hard every time we post to each other so I'll leave it up to OP to decide what's reasonable. You're too blind to see any type of reason.
> 
> I guess the wife should just life live like she makes $30k a year while he gets to live like he makes $210k a year rather than they both live like they make $250k a year as a married couple.
> 
> ...


Oh, pray tell, explain the reasoning. She is not contributing, but rather taking from the relationship, but that is A-Ok in your book. Maybe you need to read the OPs follow ups where he goes into more detail about the extent, rather than being fixated over the $150 shoe example given in his OP. For all you know she was working far more before she got married, but is now just skating on the effort of the OP. There is no reason to be a doormat, but keep on telling the OP that is what he should do. Oh excuse me, a cheapskate.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Get her a Dave Ramsey book and sign her up for an appointment with a financial planner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> @rich84
> 
> I have actually explicitly told her I'll pay for X because I want you to hit that savings goal.
> 
> ...



It's just a different viewpoint. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I think financial responsibility is great. But you and your wife appear to be mismatched in that your financial goals are different. She doesn't care about your savings goal for her income. She doesn't care about your 7/8 rule. She likes thinks that is silly, stingy, and unattractive. She likely sees her salary as a way to contribute enough that she doesn't feel completely imprisoned by your control over the financial picture. In her mind (and this isn't her necessarily, but just a generalization), not setting back the tax money is a minor thing considering your much higher income. 

A lot of women value being provided for, even when they are capable of being independent and bringing home bank. Those women find this attractive: generosity and financial support from their mate. So, even when women have a high earning potential, they like a man to provide to the best of his ability. A lot of men take pleasure in providing for their family. I don't know if it goes back to evolutionary terms of bringing home the kill, but that's our modern equivalent. 

And then there's the issue of what's mine is yours and vice versa. You treat her like a child, a dependent that you're trying to train to adult. If you take the mindset that this is a pooled income, it really doesn't matter. You're acting like taking money to pay her back taxes is somehow killing your goals, your budget, etc. It looks really selfish and self serving. 

How did her parents handle their finances? That might give you some perspective. To answer your question - how can you teach her accountability and responsibility? She's not your student. She's your partner. You can influence her only and express your boundaries and the consequences of her breaching your boundaries. What are they, exactly, and what are you willing to do? 


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

Also "I will pay for this. You will pay for that." What about "We will buy this together. We will pay for that"? You have a roommate agreement not a marriage. 


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

OP, There are many ways to split the finances. You are basing it on gross income, but that is not 100% fair due to regressive nature of FICA tax etc. You could try % net income or even disposable income. 

I fully agree with @Aspydad on the taxes. She is not the reason for the high tax bill (25% of the incremental amount). If you want to go to war over $2000-3000 (10% tax withholding on her income) then you have a much larger problem. At your combined household income, that is insignificant amount of money. 

How can you complain or even mention the cost of fixing brakes on her car? Jeez. And yes, woman's clothing costs much more than men's. You did not really list anything that says she is excessive on spending. 

You seem controlling. If the grocery bill seems high, go shopping WITH HER. It costs more than you think and not all that money is food. You probably should have married a person that makes equal to you. 

Have a good talk to her about the finances and budgeting but loosen up from your (IMO unrealistic) position. Because if you keep taking this hard 1/8th, 7/8th position on the finances, then expect your wife to do the same with your sex life. Don't be surprised if she says she will handle the 1/8th sex with you and you can hand(le) the other 7/8ths yourself. Pun intended.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> OP, There are many ways to split the finances. You are basing it on gross income, but that is not 100% fair due to regressive nature of FICA tax etc. You could try % net income or even disposable income.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't go there (he didn't mention it being a problem) other than to say what is and isn't attractive, but I sure was thinking it! 


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I think you two need to start with a clean slate and sit down and fix this. Pay the damn taxes and be done with it. Make an appointment for both of you to go to a CFA and/or CPA. She needs to make quarterly tax deposits. Figure out what those are.

Each month she places 1/12 of her annual tax liability into a savings account. You do this via withholding. Then both of you set aside retirement funds and put those in appropriate accounts.

Figure out house, car, gas, utilities... all reoccurring normal living expenses. Add in an entertainment budget. See how much that is. Have her put in her share; you put in your share (1:7 or whatever the ratio is). All bills, eating out, etc. come out of this. Her gas, her car, your meals out together. And when that is gone, no more eating out. You can eat out four times at $100 a pop or 8 times at $50 a pop. But when the budget is gone, it's gone.

What's left is yours and hers respectively. Maybe she will see just how much you contribute but at least you won't be responsible for keeping up with her tax liability. If she balks, you can always explain that there are no guarantees in life and if something happened to you, she needs to be able to manage these things on her own.

Maybe you should consider a post-nuptial agreement.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

New,

Your other thread sheds more light on this problem. 

What happened to "She works 2 jobs now which seems to be stressing her out, *but she doesn't have to.* *I can easily support her* which I have in the past when she's been out of work."?

The 10% tax withholding is NOT the problem and you know it. By working she is bringing in more money net to your household than if she did not work. So the tax issue is moot. 

What is the REAL problem???

Your other thread outlines a much more serious situation.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> What is the REAL problem???
> 
> Your other thread outlines a much more serious situation.


He's an abused man too scared to follow through with anything. He makes to much money to divorce so, he is trying to convince himself ton ways to remain married. A woman hitting me is enough for me to move on. If she catches me on the wrong day, I am the ogre abuser who ends up in jail. We all know, it doesn't matter if he walks away and does nothing over years, all it takes is one hit and he's done.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

Guys, based on the excellent feedback here I'm going to suck it up this year and take it as a 4k punch in the gut lesson. She has to save for her taxes next year or we are filing separately. Between us, any reasonable amount of tax savings would make me happy and I'll make up any shortfall I just want her to see the importance of this.

As far as other expenses. Yes I come across as complaining, petty, unattractive, controlling. Thanks for the comments that point this out. I don't want to come across as any of these. I like being the provider, the care taker, the "don't worry babe it's going to be ok" guy. I like that. That's why I came on here to ask for opinions before I broached the subject with her. And I'm glad I did. But let me give you a little example of why I'm getting that way:

Before we got married her tax preparer was under reporting my wife's income and getting her a refund on top of not paying taxes. Last year I explained that if she doesn't pay taxes she won't receive any social security retirement benefits. So I reported exactly what she made. no problem. This year...

wife: "hey, so I can have a bigger retirement, report that I made 10K more than I actually made"

me: "sure ..(did the calcs)... ok the taxes we owe went up by $ (thousands of dollars). 
Where are these extra thousands coming from?"

wife gives me a blank stare "you of course."

Ahaaaarrrrrr it's like there is no cause and effect, responsibility, and accountability.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I think it's totally reasonable to expect her to save up, if her job is not withholding taxes. It's a responsibility thing. I learned this the hard way years ago when I was naive and didn't save properly in a similar situation and come tax time, my ex H helped. I haven't made that mistake since. 

She won't learn things if you always save her. Also, maybe she expects to be saved and provided for. You both need to have a frank discussion about expectations.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@blueinbr and @phillybeffandswiss

Definitely related. More like being taken advantage of physically and now financially?

That last thread was the last instance something like that happened. We've only been married 2+ yrs so if anything happens it would be a one time chunk of change. I'm fully prepared to walk away if something like that happens again.

But In this thread I wanted to tackle a financial problem.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> I'm going to suck it up this year and take it as a 4k punch in the gut lesson. She has to save for her taxes next year or we are filing separately.
> 
> Ahaaaarrrrrr it's like there is no cause and effect, responsibility, and accountability.


Well, if you are satisfied then I won't argue with you but I still want to point out a key point:

If she pays the $4k for next year then she will have $4000 less to spend on the household bills. So YOU will make up the difference and therefore no net change to the situation.

Now, do you expect her to buy $4000 less of shoes, hair, food etc? If not you are just moving money around without accomplishing anything.

Tax issue aside, your only option then would be for her to spend less. Right? So this is a budgeting issue, not a tax issue.


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

Ok after reading your last post and your previous thread, I take back what I said. You are managing a child, an abusive one. She doesn't see the consequences of her actions, and thanks to your nice guy, enabling tendencies, she doesn't have to. Though a tough stand would likely land you in jail if she's drinking. What are you getting out of this marriage besides aggravation? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> More like being taken advantage ..........and now financially?


Ok, my friend. You can feel any way you want. That is all that matters. But many of us feel that you are NOT be taken advantage of financially. 

FWIW, my financial situation is same as yours. Similar household income. I make 8X what the wife does. No withholding from her paycheck. All money is combined. I manage all the bills, shopping, taxes, cars etc. I adjust my W-4 to compensate for the non withholding. All bills are through automatic payments so no need to write checks. Wife has no clue about how much any of the bills are. If she wants haircut, shoes, etc I have no problem with that. Of course she will never spend $150 on shoes but will on her hair. We eat out often. I never ever felt taken advantage of financially. 

But we have been married 20+ years, not 2. This worked for us. And my state is community property so on any divorce wife gets 50% of all assets. I am ok with that too.


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## BeautyBeast (Feb 3, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> @NewBoundariesMan and you and @Ynot can both start your own thread together about how your wives raped you in your respective divorces.
> Good luck.


Unfortunately you are damn right.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

rich84 said:


> What are you getting out of this marriage besides aggravation?


OP listed this:

Disclaimer: it's not all bad.
*She wakes up every morning to cook my lunch and make me a vegetable smoothie.
She cleans like a beast.
She compliments me regularly: you're smart, I'm proud of you, etc. 
Sex is great and she regularly initiates and accepts my initiations.*

You read the book. He is getting his Love Languages met. 
Words of Admiration
Physical Touch
Acts of Service


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> *Before we got married her tax preparer was under reporting my wife's income and getting her a refund on top of not paying taxes. *Last year I explained that if she doesn't pay taxes she won't receive any social security retirement benefits. So I reported exactly what she made. no problem. This year...
> 
> wife: "hey, so I can have a bigger retirement, report that I made 10K more than I actually made"
> 
> ...


It is very dangerous to under-report income on tax forms. 

As for Social Security, as long as she has 10 years (actually 40 "quarters", but that's pretty much the same thing) of reported earnings, she will be eligible for 50% of your full retirement age benefit if she waits until her full retirement age to claim, regardless of her earnings. So I wouldn't worry about that.

Note: not a lawyer, do your own research, etc.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Ok, my friend. You can feel any way you want. That is all that matters. But many of us feel that you are NOT be taken advantage of financially.
> 
> FWIW, my financial situation is same as yours. Similar household income. I make 8X what the wife does. No withholding from her paycheck. All money is combined. I manage all the bills, shopping, taxes, cars etc. I adjust my W-4 to compensate for the non withholding. All bills are through automatic payments so no need to write checks. Wife has no clue about how much any of the bills are. If she wants haircut, shoes, etc I have no problem with that. Of course she will never spend $150 on shoes but will on her hair. We eat out often. I never ever felt taken advantage of financially.
> 
> But we have been married 20+ years, not 2. This worked for us. And my state is community property so on any divorce wife gets 50% of all assets. I am ok with that too.


I make all the money, and have been the primary breadwinner for almost our entire marriage, but that's fine with me so long as my wife treats me right, which she does. We live in a community property state too, and that's also fine with me (with the same caveat).


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> @Ynot
> Wow sorry you had to go through that.
> 
> Your story really resonates with me and I'm trying to unbind myself from the mess that I've made with her expecting me to do all of this. I mentioned shoes and taxes but that's just the tip of the iceberg. The real story is more like what you wrote.
> ...


$800 groceries
$400 out to eat
$150 shoes

Why is she buying your cat food? Is she using her money for groceries? 
*You* should take over the grocery shopping *immediately* since you can do it better than her!!!

Going out to eat- well everyone is tired after working all day. You can cook for her with the groceries you bought so that you can save on the $400 to go out to eat. :grin2:

She's on her feet all day at the hairdressing- so good shoes are going to save on future medical bills for messed up feet. Smart woman there!

There's too much stress and hostility in your marriage over money right now. Here is some good advice: https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/married-couples-how-to-combine-bank-accounts?ictid=aw15


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## rich84 (Mar 30, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> OP listed this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When I think of physical touch I don't think of scars from her cat clawing the living **** out of me during a blackout drunk. But hey, different strokes. 

Spoken like a true enabling abuse victim. If it was a woman everyone would be all over it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

rich84 said:


> When I think of physical touch I don't think of scars from her cat clawing the living **** out of me during a blackout drunk. But hey, different strokes.
> 
> Spoken like a true enabling abuse victim. If it was a woman everyone would be all over it.


:iagree:

After reading OP's other thread, it is evident that taxes, grocery money, and new shoes are the least of his problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Look. Either tell her to get a job that pays better and takes out taxes like their supposed to or have her quit her job.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

No, he needs to swallow his pride and leave this abusive woman.


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## sally40 (Aug 7, 2015)

Yes! I am in a similar situation except I only make 30% more than spouse. But it is very important to me to keep finances separate as I have kids from a previous marriage, and I don't need to partially support a 50 year old spouse with $ that could go towards my children. (Note: my spouse has a history of being irresponsible with money).. 

So from day #1 I **Always** file "Married filing separately. It works great for me! YES I am more heavily taxed by filing "Separately". But I don't care - I never have to be responsible for another adults taxes, especially an adult who has been irresponsible (he even called my mom 6 months into our marriage to ask to borrow $ from her)

If you let her know at some point you will be filing separately, if she complains you can nicely say "well honey, I need to (save for retirement/save for home repairs, exc.)....we both filed separately before we got married.....if your wife were to continue more, just nicely say "honey, just make sure you get a good accountant and you probably won't owe that much" Just be blasé

And yes -- about asking her to pay 1/7th of the bills -- that is totally fair. If she balks or asks why, say something like "Well I want things to be fair" or "I've got kids to save for/medical bills to pay/retirement to save for" exc exc

Good luck!!!!


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## sally40 (Aug 7, 2015)

Fascinating lady - sure the wife pays for her car, but he likely pays for his car, and what about GROCERIES, the water bill property taxes, lawn care/lawnmower, gifts for family at Christmas, health insurance --- I'm surprised you are impressed she pays for her car and you don't mention who pays for groceries/eating out/rent/mortgage?


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## sally40 (Aug 7, 2015)

You are totally correct original poster. The folks here saying "Don't mention she bought $150 shoes, you'll sound cheapskate" are out of line. No one pays my taxes -- no one pays my sisters taxes -- no one pays my brother in law's taxes -- so you are correct -- why should your wife "stick you" with her big tax bill yet have money to buy nice shoes.

I think the other responses are out of line. Based on your original post, it seems you may pay for all groceries, health care, rent/mortgage, upkeep of the home, the yard, property taxes, the water bill exc. She should not buy shoes while sticking you with basics like groceries


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## sally40 (Aug 7, 2015)

Kag you are saying the original poster should "adjust their tax withholdings to reflect your combined tax bill" so he won't owe $2,000 in taxes next year? That means he's paying all of her taxes. Why should a grown woman have a man paying all of her taxes for he? She's not a child living under her parents roof

Everyone here is saying $155 is not a lot for shoes - would you feel that way if you were footing a $3,000, $4,000 tax shortage due to a spouse making NO quarterly tax payments? Where I come from, you pay your taxes and THEN if money is left over, THEN you can buy a $155 pair of shoes.


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## sally40 (Aug 7, 2015)

I respectfully disagree -- you said the OP is "treating his wife like a child". Well no offense, but she is being a mooch to just expect him to pay for *all* her taxes every year. She is *acting* like a child.

I can't imagine being over the age of 18 and working full time and just "expecting" my spouse to pay all of my income tax. That is being a user. I don't think the OP's full concern is the actual money - he may simply be tired of being used. 

For his wife to expect her husband to pay all of her income tax, regardless of whether he earns a lot more than her - is like a 1950's way of thinking on the wife's part


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@sally40



sally40 said:


> Where I come from, you pay your taxes and THEN if money is left over, THEN you can buy a $155 pair of shoes.


Thanks for your comments and especially for the above. 
I am going to handle the original problem like I said above but it's nice to hear some support.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Is she still drinking?


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

@NewBoundariesMan

I feel you with respect to your original question. My wife is the same way in that I seem to pick up all the major costs - taxes, housing, ect. She also has not adjusted her W-4 to increase her tax withholdings. Costs us almost $2000 extra this year due to her under contributing. She would much rather get to spend the money than "give it to Uncle Sam."

I get it. The problem is your wife, she doesn't get it or doesn't care with regards to money. You can't change that, only she can. 

I pretty much stopped paying for anything with regards to my wife (I'm so horrible) and I take care of the rest of things. She makes $60K+, so she can handle it before anyone jumps on me. And she has a PhD, so she is not stupid. She finally saw how much stuff was costing and came up with a budget for herself. We may finally get to that combined budget that I have been trying to get her to see for a while now after all...

I hear you. All these folks who say you should pay for everything are full of it. Everyone needs to be able to pay their fair share, doesn't matter how much you make.


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@turnera
She has a glass of wine when we eat out if we agree before hand. That's her limit. No alcohol in the house.

@C3156
Thanks. Your wife ever guilt trip you about it though? 

My big deal lately has been the groceries. $800 last month $760 this month for 2 people. Seems like a lot to me but the real problem is she then wants to go out to eat about 3 times a week because she's too tired to cook. I understand she's tired but that adds up quick. I told her next month the only way we go out to eat is if she's paying or buy some groceries that we just heat up. She hates this last option as she needs everything freshly cooked where as I can eat cereal for dinner.
Disclaimer: I am a horrible cook while she was on her way to becoming a chef.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So why don't you just be the man of the house and put your foot down? That's what women want. In the right way, of course.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> Let me summarize my frustration:
> 
> My employer takes out taxes. I was short about 2k this year so I have to pay that.
> 
> ...


I have heard of people working on contract / freelance. They are paid gross but no one tells them when or how to pay some portion towards tax to avoid surprises and penalties.

Even my father did this to me. He asked me to do some work for him but despite his own accountant, he did not bother tell me how to handle the payment. Another accountant had to tell me that I owed a penalty for not paying sooner. The amount that I had earned did not seem like that much money.

I think it's unfair.

OP, it sounds to me that you and your wife should do tax planning on a yearly basis.

I remember seeing a text message from my husband's special friend (before he met me). She was moaning because she owed the IRS $6K. Apparently, while she had a social working position with a major city, they didn't bother with putting her on payroll.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Would it be better if you file separate taxes?

Keep all your income separate. Have a joint account for household expenses and you both contribute equally to it. Or an equal percentage based on earnings. 

I have friends who do this. And it works great for them. They each claim a child. 

But like other suggested you need to take a firm stand with your wife on your finances. She does not get to live willy nilly with no consequences.


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## Theplotchickens (May 2, 2016)

I tried to read through all six pages, but only made it to about page four. 

Has anyone mentioned estimated quarterly tax payments? I ask because you mentioned your wife doesn't have any taxes taken out, which makes me wonder if she is being paid as an independent contractor (not surprising, since she is a hair stylist). 

If that's the case, she should be withholding about 25-28% of each paycheck (self employment taxes are such a drag) and paying her taxes quarterly. Otherwise the IRS will assess penalties if you leave such large payments until tax time. 

In response to the general idea of your post, shoe prices aside, I don't think you are out of line feeling like you're the one pulling your weight financially. Allow me to give this example: I don't think anyone here would be anything but giddy if their SO were to spend 5k on a purchase for them, 5k is a decent chunk o change! However your SO has put you in the position where you have no choice but to spend 5k on her. My point is, why should that be seen as an extravagant gift, but then on the flip side be considered a small obligation? Granted, I don't make much money, so 5k may be more for me than you.

One thing I would ask: Does she contribute the lions share to the household in other ways? You guys split chores?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When it comes to taxes, there are a few things you need to look at.
Does your wife get her income reported via a 1099? I’m assuming she does. 



That means that she can write off business expenses against that income… does she? 


She will need to pay self-employment taxes on anything that is not offset as a expense. Self-employment tax is 15.3%. It only covers Social Security and medicare.


After that, she will pay income tax on her net income. If she were not married to you, she would be in a very low income bracket. So the income tax on her net income would probably be about 10% after her personal deduction. So she would owe very little in income tax, if any. But since she is married to you, her income is added on top of yours and she ends up owing at your highest bracket.. probably about 25%. (It’s a bit hard to talk about these things when we have no idea how much each of you actually earns.) But, because of you, her taxes are remarkably higher. So she get screwed over. Let’s be fair when we look at all this.


Now some people have suggested that you file “married but separate”. Have you run the numbers for you filing that way? The very highest tax bracket is “married but separate”. Get something like turbo tax and run the numbers. Usually, the only reason for using this tax bracket is so that a spouse can claim ‘innocent spouse’. You know, like your spouse is running a business and hiding money from the IRS to not pay taxes. Or your spouse is a mafia king/queen-pin and you know that the IRS is going to go after them. So the innocent spouse files separate, that way they are not held responsible for the millions in taxes that the IRS is going to levy on their criminal spouse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> I'm rethinking that now that I saw the $155 expense for shoes on her cc statement (which I thought we agreed she would never use).
> 
> I feel used.
> 
> She is implicitly forcing to pay for things I hate: $155 for a pair of shoes!!! She is a hair dresser so I understand good shoes because of all the standing but $155!?! I say implicitly because in the end I am enabling her by paying for everything. right?


If these are shoes that have good support so she uses them for work (you said something that makes me think that this is the case), then they can be written off as an expense against her income.

That price is not high for a quality pair of shoes for someone who stands on their feet all day. The trick would be to get her to buy them when they are on sale or to find them online at a discount. Her health is worth the extra bit of money.



NewBoundariesMan said:


> (I had to rewrite the above like 20 times - I had to think really hard to figure out what was really eating me)
> 
> Another example, When we meet she had approximately 4k in credit card debt. I've helped her manage her money and in 2 years she has $0 CC debt and 13K roth ira. It's like she's taking me for granted financially.


Let’s see, she has to pay 15.3% in self-employment taxes
25% in income taxes (if she’s on a joint tax return with you and probably if filing married but separate).

Between those two taxes, she gives 40.3% of her income to the feds.

And you want her to put $542 a month into a Roth IRA.

If she earns $24,000 a year, her self-employment taxes are $3,672 leaving her with $20,328 of net income.

At a 25% tax rate, her income taxes are $5,082 (which agree with your numbers). So now she has $15,246 left.

Now take about the $6,500 for the Roth IRA, and she has $8,746 a a year in income that she can actually live on. That’s $723 monthly.
What is the total of her car payment and other expenses that she covers?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NewBoundariesMan said:


> @rich84
> I have actually explicitly told her I'll pay for X because I want you to hit that savings goal.


You “told” her. That’s no an agreement, that’s you telling her. I have no doubt that your intent was nothing but good. But my bet is that she took it as you telling her what to do.

One way to do this is to get her to make the money transfer to her Roth IRA BEFORE you pay for her car. That way you know you have her agreement on this. Or you can let her pay for her car repair and you match it by you paying into her Roth IRA.

You two need to be using a Policy of Joint Agreement

.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NewBoundariesMan,

Checking in on you. How are you doing? Has anything changed?

Are you still reading here on TAM?


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## NewBoundariesMan (Aug 3, 2015)

@EleGirl yes I'm still reading on TAM.

I haven't thought about revisiting this thread until now. Thanks for your feedback.

Here is what ended up happening:

Out of the 7K she paid $600 and is going to be making month payments on a credit card debt of $1200 we used for a vacation.

She setup a savings account and the bank automatically transfers $50 / week from her checking into this new account. The money will be used for next years taxes (unless she raids it before hand).


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Just remember equity in marriage doesn't have to be on the same piece of the pie as long as it is with the pie itself.

What I mean by that is I make more money then my wife, but she does a little bit more of the cleaning around the house, though I help. This seems fair to me. 

I am not saying let her take advantage of you but at the end of the day you are a team, teammates sacrifice for each other to reach the same goal.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you have any control over her accounts? What happens if she stops contributing?


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