# friends first.



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

lots of women post that they want friends first, not a fwb or one night stand.

Most of my friend looking for a woman for long term relationship want some action. this whole friends first thing isn't cutting it. It smells of cold fish.

isn't there some sort of happy medium? I mean who wants to date and throw money at going out while waiting to see if a friendship turns into desire? Lets face it if your over 45 yrs old times a ticking and waiting for some action just seems stupid. If there's physical attraction then ripping off each others cloths and getting some action is important. 

I think its a power struggle if you wait or are friends first then the woman will try to control the sex like a banker. using it to her advantage whenever she feels like it.

there has to be mutual desire on both parts or its just not worth it.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Here is a good suggestion.

Set a budget for each new date/friendship/relationship. Say for example $300. Tell the woman there is $300 for you to spend on her and that she needs to put out before the balance reaches zero, otherwise you move on to the next woman. If you have sex with her, the account gets replenished based on how good the sex was.

That will address your "who wants to date and throw money at going out while waiting to see if a friendship turns into desire"


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

blueinbr said:


> Here is a good suggestion.
> 
> Set a budget for each new date/friendship/relationship. Say for example $300. Tell the woman there is $300 for you to spend on her and that she needs to put out before the balance reaches zero, otherwise you move on to the next woman. If you have sex with her, the account gets replenished based on how good the sex was.
> 
> That will address your "who wants to date and throw money at going out while waiting to see if a friendship turns into desire"


lo that's romance!!!

I know my post might come off as put out or get out but that's not how I intended it to sound.

seriously I think there has to be some raw animal attraction, I almost see it as the exact opposite if the sex is bad then I don't want to be friends. 

maybe it depends if you just got out of a sexless marriage you want to be sure not to waste any time with a woman who doesn't put sex high on the priority scale.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I've don't believe in the friends first thing. I want a romantic relationship first. 

Friends: boring and comfortable
Romantic: hot and passionate


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> maybe it depends if you just got out of a sexless marriage you want to be sure not to waste any time with a woman who doesn't put sex high on the priority scale.


Are there really sexless marriages? :wink2: j/k

Another concern is that the relationship may start with HD but then after marriage etc it drops quickly to a LD or worse.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

blueinbr said:


> Are there really sexless marriages? :wink2: j/k
> 
> Another concern is that the relationship may start with HD but then after marriage etc it drops quickly to a LD or worse.


my personal opinion is marriage is for raising kids. I could not imagine getting married later in life. fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> lots of women post that they want friends first, not a fwb or one night stand.
> 
> Most of my friend looking for a woman for long term relationship want some action. this whole friends first thing isn't cutting it. It smells of cold fish.
> 
> ...


Hmmm.....let's see...

You want someone to have sex with you before she gets to know you. You don't want to spend too much on her in case you find you don't like her (i.e. waste money). You didn't say this, but from reading TAM, it seems that most guys are really hung up on getting into a LTR with a woman whose "number" is too high. Or who has been too "freaky" with other men before them. 

Whatever could the problem be...?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hire a hooker if all you want is sex.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> Hire a hooker if all you want is sex.


yep thats what most older guy do its cheaper and they aim to please after words its roll over and go to bed. don't have to pay their car ins or hear them b!tch about all the drama with facebook and crazy rants.

>

But thats not what I posted that what you think you read from my post.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> Hmmm.....let's see...
> 
> You want someone to have sex with you before she gets to know you. You don't want to spend too much on her in case you find you don't like her (i.e. waste money). You didn't say this, but from reading TAM, it seems that most guys are really hung up on getting into a LTR with a woman whose "number" is too high. Or who has been too "freaky" with other men before them.
> 
> Whatever could the problem be...?


no I don't want to spend endless days being friends I have lots of friends I need a lover!

you can try to twist my words to suit your needs but it isn't working.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> no I don't want to spend endless days being friends I have lots of friends I need a lover!
> 
> you can try to twist my words to suit your needs but it isn't working.


I don't have any needs in this scenario. I was just trying to help you to see it from the female perspective. I thought you posted because you were wondering why you had the problem.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

What women say and what they do are not always in sync. If she likes you and you turn her on, then it's usually a green light. If she's insisting on a friendship first then I wouldn't waste my time. You should be able to get a pretty clear picture by the end of the first date what direction the relationship is going to take and that's when you get to decide whether you are onboard with it or are going to move on to the next one.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> I don't have any needs in this scenario. I was just trying to help you to see it from the female perspective. I thought you posted because you were wondering why you had the problem.


 

I asked if there was any middle ground.:crying:


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> lots of women post that they want friends first, not a fwb or one night stand.
> 
> Most of my friend looking for a woman for long term relationship want some action. this whole friends first thing isn't cutting it. It smells of cold fish.
> 
> ...


I'm a big believer in try before you buy.:grin2:


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> I asked if there was any middle ground.:crying:


The best way to meet someone is in a group setting: at a party, participating in a sports event, hobby, etc.. You get to know them, you like them, you flirt a little. If she starts flirting back you now know you have mutual attraction - and something in common besides attraction. And it hasn't cost you anything!

Online dating is a whole different beast. You're going to pay, probably a lot, if that's the only route you take.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> no I don't want to spend endless days being friends I have lots of friends I need a lover!


This was the point I was trying to make in my post above.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

When a man's says to a women "I think we should be friends" means he's not into her, but he'll have sex with her anyway. (If it's offered) 
When a woman says to a man "I think we should be friends" means she's not into him, but is keeping him around incase nothing better (richer) shows up. 

That's my theory anyway! 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> lots of women post that they want friends first, not a fwb or one night stand.
> 
> Most of my friend looking for a woman for long term relationship want some action. this whole friends first thing isn't cutting it. It smells of cold fish.
> 
> ...


In that age bracket it is fairly standard to have FWB or multiple dating partners. If you aren't finding this to be the case then maybe you need to look at yourself to find out why.

Do you live in a small town?
Are you too harsh?
Are you a friendly person?
etc

Plenty of others are out enjoying the post divorce life.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

That "friends first" line sounds like a crock and a turn-off to me too. That doesn't mean rational considerations apart from sexual chemistry are irrelevant--but if you don't inspire that mutual, visceral spark from the start, you can waste serious time left-braining yourself into a dud relationship.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Phil Anders said:


> That "friends first" line sounds like a crock and a turn-off to me too. That doesn't mean rational considerations apart from sexual chemistry are irrelevant--*but if you don't inspire that mutual, visceral spark from the start, you can waste serious time left-braining yourself into a dud relationship.*


:iagree:

No chemistry? Dud ball relationship, IMHO. Unless you're just looking for a friend to have coffee with .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think you're putting way too much thought into what women's profiles say. More thought, in fact, than the vast majority of the women whose profiles contain that phrase. "Friends first" is sort of shorthand for "I'm not looking to hook up and would like to actually get to know you before we get nekkid". My suggestion would be that if a guy isn't interested in getting to know a woman a little better before the clothes come off, or in the women who would use that descriptor for the type of relationship they want, then it's best to just move along. And, FWIW, I saw a lot of men's profiles that mentioned "friends first" as well, so it's not just a woman thing.

I think there is a middle ground between "friends" and casual sex. But it's what I would call dating. If I'm dating a guy (beyond the first date), I'm interested in him sexually. If he's dating me, I presume the same. But I'm not going to sleep with anyone that I'm not also interested in intellectually, emotionally, and in all other ways. I'm also not going to sleep with anyone who isn't willing to agree to be sexually exclusive with me for the duration of our intimate relationship. I wasn't looking for a friend only, but my personal parameters meant that I wasn't going to be compatible with anyone who wasn't interested in getting to know each other better before we hit the sheets. Some guys weren't interested in that. No harm, no foul. I was happy to wish them well to move along to someone more compatible with what they wanted.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I don't get the friends first thing, either. Back when I was single, I pretty much nodded, smiled, and started backing away from any guy who said he wanted to be friends first. Friends I had, as others pointed out.

I think my middle ground would be 3 dates. If nothing has happened sexually by then, consider it a dud and move on.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> What women say and what they do are not always in sync.


True words were never said. In the moment they say them, they mean it but the wind shifts and things change. 



> If she likes you and you turn her on, then it's usually a green light. If she's insisting on a friendship first then I wouldn't waste my time. You should be able to get a pretty clear picture by the end of the first date what direction the relationship is going to take and that's when you get to decide whether you are onboard with it or are going to move on to the next one.


I have had different experiences. With my wife, our first date she made clear that she was not looking for marriage and just wanted to have fun. One month later we were engaged and we have been married 25+ years.


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## Mr.StrongMan (Feb 10, 2016)

chillymorn said:


> lots of women post that they want friends first, not a fwb or one night stand.
> 
> Most of my friend looking for a woman for long term relationship want some action. this whole friends first thing isn't cutting it. It smells of cold fish.
> 
> ...


From my limited understanding, limited reading and limited experience in this matter, when most women say they "want to be friends first", it only means they are not into you! Your chemistry does not ignite their interest. Perhaps you're not alpha enough, or hot enough, or rich enough, or too nice! Whatever it is, I believe this is a woman's way of not being into the man she "wants to be friends with" first. She simply was not knocked off her socks yet. If she was she wouldn't want to be friends first. That's just my take.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

kindMe77 said:


> From my limited understanding, limited reading and limited experience in this matter, when most women say they "want to be friends first", it only means they are not into you! Your chemistry does not ignite their interest. Perhaps you're not alpha enough, or hot enough, or rich enough, or too nice! Whatever it is, I believe this is a woman's way of not being into the man she "wants to be friends with" first. She simply was not knocked off her socks yet. If she was she wouldn't want to be friends first. That's just my take.


My wife once told me that she was not physically attracted to me (many years after we were married). What attracted her was the ambition, intelligence, humor, spiritual. 

I didn't date anyone unless I thought they were physically attractive. 

I mention this just suggesting that the first impression may give way to other things.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Huge double standard. As someone else mentioned, men want women with "low numbers" but are ready to dump a new women they are dating if she won't have sex within the first three dates?? The two don't match up.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> Here is a good suggestion.
> 
> Set a budget for each new date/friendship/relationship. Say for example $300. Tell the woman there is $300 for you to spend on her and that she needs to put out before the balance reaches zero, otherwise you move on to the next woman. If you have sex with her, the account gets replenished based on how good the sex was.
> 
> That will address your "who wants to date and throw money at going out while waiting to see if a friendship turns into desire"


A modern woman can pay for the date too.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> I've don't believe in the friends first thing. I want a romantic relationship first.
> 
> Friends: boring and comfortable
> Romantic: hot and passionate


Hot n passionate 

Then divorce?


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Rowan said:


> I think you're putting way too much thought into what women's profiles say. More thought, in fact, than the vast majority of the women whose profiles contain that phrase. "Friends first" is sort of shorthand for "I'm not looking to hook up and would like to actually get to know you before we get nekkid". My suggestion would be that if a guy isn't interested in getting to know a woman a little better before the clothes come off, or in the women who would use that descriptor for the type of relationship they want, then it's best to just move along. And, FWIW, I saw a lot of men's profiles that mentioned "friends first" as well, so it's not just a woman thing.
> 
> I think there is a middle ground between "friends" and casual sex. But it's what I would call dating. If I'm dating a guy (beyond the first date), I'm interested in him sexually. If he's dating me, I presume the same. But I'm not going to sleep with anyone that I'm not also interested in intellectually, emotionally, and in all other ways. I'm also not going to sleep with anyone who isn't willing to agree to be sexually exclusive with me for the duration of our intimate relationship. I wasn't looking for a friend only, but my personal parameters meant that I wasn't going to be compatible with anyone who wasn't interested in getting to know each other better before we hit the sheets. Some guys weren't interested in that. No harm, no foul. I was happy to wish them well to move along to someone more compatible with what they wanted.


Agree


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Huge double standard. As someone else mentioned, men want women with "low numbers" but are ready to dump a new women they are dating if she won't have sex within the first three dates?? The two don't match up.


Many men have no trouble "dating" a woman with a high number.

That doesn't mean that they want to marry such a woman.

So if you are a woman who wants to get married, having a high number is likely to be a problem.

If you just want to have fun, not so much.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

tech-novelist said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > Huge double standard. As someone else mentioned, men want women with "low numbers" but are ready to dump a new women they are dating if she won't have sex within the first three dates?? The two don't match up.
> ...


Well that presents a problem, too. The only way to get to marriage is to BEGIN by dating. And if a man won't date you if you don't sleep with him pretty much right away, how will you ever get there? But then you aren't marriable if you have a high number. Makes no sense. Men can't have it both ways.


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## CMD1978 (Apr 9, 2016)

Are you willing to provide results of a recent STD test on the first date? Cause that's the only way you'd be in my bed by the third. And anyone who doesn't ask for one in exchange is a fool.

Personally I'm not going to sleep with a guy until I know him well enough to believe that he's not already married, a drug user, or an unemployed loser living in mommy's basement at 45 years old. Or only after me to get access to my kids. After what my husband put me through I just don't trust that easily anymore. And I personally can't do sex without trust. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Livvie said:


> Huge double standard. As someone else mentioned, men want women with "low numbers" but are ready to dump a new women they are dating if she won't have sex within the first three dates?? The two don't match up.


numbers don't mean anything to me I'd rather be with someone thats been around the block as to be with someone who is narrow minded and selfish sexually.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> lots of women post that they want friends first, not a fwb or one night stand.
> 
> Most of my friend looking for a woman for long term relationship want some action. this whole friends first thing isn't cutting it. It smells of cold fish.
> 
> ...


I have thought about this a bit as I am aging and my husband's health is not great, wondering what would I do in the dating world if I lost him, as I love being in a relationship. I have conflicting thoughts:

1. Like you say, no sex when you're over 45 seems a bit silly unless you're very religious, in which case you're probably trying to date others of the same beliefs.

2. However, my biggest past regret from relationships was how fast I slept with a guy I was attracted to, and then, since I'm "not a *****!" I was stuck in a relationship with him, unable to explore other possibilities. 

3. Also how I felt I had no value to a man unless I was sleeping with him, so I never held out for someone who really cared about me as very special, worth a little wait.

4. How many times was I head over heels for some guy the first few dates only to start to realize what a bad fit we were a month or two after we'd started having sex?

So my current thought is, that:

1. Yeah, we'd have to be close enough that we both knew we wanted a monogamous relationship with each other before I'd have sex. If he doesn't want exclusivity, I don't want to be having sex with him.

2. It takes some time to get to know someone that well. I would not say "friends first" like I expect some guy to be my platonic bestie for years first, but I need time to get to know each other decently.

3. I would want the man to pursue me and that means him paying for some things, but if I'm insisting on taking it slow, I would also be happy to pay for some things, go dutch, or do inexpensive things. 

4. I guess if I'm keeping my options open, I have to accept he may be sleeping with someone else while he gets to know me better. Hmmmm....


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Since there is a crazy increase in STD's lately (particularly chlamydia) , I would hope that you would get to know someone, at least a little, before jumping into bed with them. 

Many (good god, not all) men don't respect women that jump into bed with them quickly. That's known by almost (almost....) everyone. It's even been brought up on TAM numerous times. So, knowing that, why would a woman do that if she is looking for a long term relationship? I could see if it was just a FWB type situation or a ONS, but if someone is looking for long term, they shy back a little to see if it's worth "putting out" for. 

I didn't sleep with my H for 3 months. I wanted to....really bad. Once I did, I didn't get off of him, ever. Lol. Just because i didn't sleep with him for the first 3 months didn't mean that I was LD - I took care of myself daily during that time. It didn't mean that I wasn't into him, because I very much was. It was me, trying to make better decisions in my life. I wanted to have fun, but be careful about it and I didn't want to be used like a $2.00 h00ker on the street. We're married now. It's sucks, I feel used by him now. But at least I didn't feel like a wh*re then. Doesn't mean I will just go out and sleep with someone immediately either if I divorce. I would wait again. If a guy can't handle that, he can move on. I know I'm a good woman. It would be his loss. I just so happened to find someone that doesn't appreciate that.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

CMD1978 said:


> Are you willing to provide results of a recent STD test on the first date? Cause that's the only way you'd be in my bed by the third. And anyone who doesn't ask for one in exchange is a fool.
> 
> Personally I'm not going to sleep with a guy until I know him well enough to believe that he's not already married, a drug user, or an unemployed loser living in mommy's basement at 45 years old. Or only after me to get access to my kids. After what my husband put me through I just don't trust that easily anymore. And I personally can't do sex without trust. Guess I'm old fashioned that way.



I think the same way too. Some call it old fashioned. I think it's wise .


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Livvie said:


> Huge double standard. As someone else mentioned, men want women with "low numbers" but are ready to dump a new women they are dating if she won't have sex within the first three dates?? The two don't match up.


I have never met a man who cared about a woman's number providing it was below triple digits.

*shrug*


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Phil Anders said:


> That "friends first" line sounds like a crock and a turn-off to me too. That doesn't mean rational considerations apart from sexual chemistry are irrelevant--but if you don't inspire that mutual, visceral spark from the start, you can waste serious time left-braining yourself into a dud relationship.


That's a really good point. Either the chemistry is there and the intent/interest is romantic... or it isn't. (IMO) However, that does not mean you have to consummate the relationship right away or before there's an agreement to monogamy. I can see men not wanting to "waste" a lot of time and money on a woman who has no intention of being more than friends - but if his feeling is a woman either puts out right away or he's moving on -- well, the women who don't put our right away are dodging a bullet.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Well that presents a problem, too. The only way to get to marriage is to BEGIN by dating. And if a man won't date you if you don't sleep with him pretty much right away, how will you ever get there? But then you aren't marriable if you have a high number. Makes no sense. Men can't have it both ways.


I understand this is a systemic problem, but it is beyond my pay grade to change the culture, which is what would be required to fix it overall.

All I can say is that women need to be very selective in whom they date. That will reduce their number as well as the chance of getting involved with the wrong men.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

tech-novelist said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > Well that presents a problem, too. The only way to get to marriage is to BEGIN by dating. And if a man won't date you if you don't sleep with him pretty much right away, how will you ever get there? But then you aren't marriable if you have a high number. Makes no sense. Men can't have it both ways.
> ...


I really liked the bit about "beyond your pay grade", thanks for that it was great and made me smile.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

CMD1978 said:


> Are you willing to provide results of a recent STD test on the first date? Cause that's the only way you'd be in my bed by the third. And anyone who doesn't ask for one in exchange is a fool.


Statistics - American Sexual Health Association

_"It is estimated that as many as *one in five Americans have genital herpes*, a lifelong (but manageable) infection, yet up to *90 percent of those with herpes are unaware they have it."
*_


_With more than 50 million adults in the US with genital herpes and up to 776,000 new infections each year, *some estimates suggest that by 2025 up to 40% of all men and half of all women could be infected*._

Seems like a pretty good reason NOT to jump in the sack with someone right away. 



> Personally I'm not going to sleep with a guy until I know him well enough to believe that he's not already married, a drug user, or an unemployed loser living in mommy's basement at 45 years old. Or only after me to get access to my kids.


Exactly. How can you get to know that about someone after a few phone calls and ONE, TWO or even THREE dates? 

It takes _TIME_ to learn whether or not the person is _trustworthy_. And being trustworthy isn't ONLY about being honest. It's about doing the right thing. 

For example: If I ask a potential partner when the last time was that he had unprotected sex with someone, is he going to lie to me or be honest? 

Is he going to keep our sex life between US, or is he going to blab to all his friends about it?

And if we break up, is he going to accept it gracefully, or become spiteful and vindictive? 

And yes, the same applies to women as well as men. 

But the whole point is that you can't learn things like this about a person unless you spend time getting to know them. And the time that's needed is more than just a few dates. 




> *After what my husband put me through I just don't trust that easily anymore. And I personally can't do sex without trust.*


*

Neither can I. If he wants to have sex with me after a few dates, in my book, he's already deemed as untrustworthy. NEXT!!!*


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

With such statistics, I wonder why many men still go on line date sites n try to pick women up for quick sex, some suggesting like meet for coffee n see if we like to proceed - for sex. 

Some try to be nice n ask about your well being n your children and when I state point blank to them that I am not up for casual sex and they went MIA. 

Gosh, it just makes me wonder do all these men prowling for free sex have some kind of STD.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

tripad said:


> With such statistics, I wonder why many men still go on line date sites n try to pick women up for quick sex...


Most of them probably don't even THINK about the potential consequences. They also figure that if they use a condom, they're "safe" from becoming infected. This is FALSE. While the use of condoms DOES _reduce_ the risk of becoming infected (or infecting someone else), it doesn't ELIMINATE the risk altogether. For example: If you're a man who has a cold sore (a.k.a. herpes) on his lips, and you perform oral sex on a woman, you can pass on herpes to her genitals. The virus can take several weeks before symptoms are even present, but the woman can pass it on to someone else through intercourse. 

A lot of men also believe they're invincible; that it "won't happen to _them_". Plus, a number of men are still ignorant as to the health hazards of unprotected intercourse with a new partner. (which kind of make monogamy look a whole lot better these days!)



> Gosh, it just makes me wonder do all these men prowling for free sex have some kind of STD


I'm sure quite a number of them do. But since a few STD's have no symptoms, they wouldn't have any cause for alarm. Also, some of the symptoms can be so mild, that they write it off to 'something else'. 

There ARE men and women out there who, even if they exhibited some symptoms and knew what it was, they would STILL continue to have sex and not even inform the other person! 

So much for feeling any responsibility toward other people...:frown2:


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Sounds like people dying from aids will rise


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I just don't want a friend for a lover. friends are for fishing and helping fix things etc.

I want a lover, passion someone I'm compatible in the sack with. If you don't give head or like it from behind once in awhile . or care what I like sexually then the whole relationship isn't worth it.

love doesn't conquer all.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I've never actually dated anyone long term that wasn't a friend first. Wanting to be friends first doesn't mean there is no attraction. It means I need to know if I actually LIKE this person that I'm attracted to, and that we have enough in common to want to get into a relationship that would lead to sex. 

Sex first often precludes becoming friends because you've already had too much physical intimacy before developing any emotional intimacy - that can create a situation where you essentially meet to have sex instead of actually dating to get to know each other and fall in love.

Sex first also creates a situation where you have no idea if the guy you're with wants a relationship or just sex.

If a guy doesn't want to know me as a human being before having sex with me, they can move on.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> my personal opinion is marriage is for raising kids. I could not imagine getting married later in life. fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.


I agree 1,000,000,000%

I only get married once. Raise the kids and if I end up divorced down the road. I stay divorced. I have no problem having a gf. But it's much cheaper getting rid of gf. Than a wife. 

I'm 47 so I'm sure if I was 20 years younger I'd think different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> I want a lover, passion someone I'm compatible in the sack with.


I think just about everyone wants that. For some of us (most women, some men), emotional connection is a prerequisite to enjoying sex.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

chillymorn said:


> numbers don't mean anything to me I'd rather be with someone thats been around the block as to be with someone who is narrow minded and selfish sexually.


See this is an assumed Stereotype ...I find this a lousy thing to say.. but then again.. I tend to look upon those who treat sex like a revolving door, sometimes you don't even know who the hell you F**ked...or their name!.... I wouldn't touch them or want anything to do with someone like that... 

But really.. this stereotype is simply NOT always true... I have always believed in Friends first..I am Old fashioned like that.. a Cold fish... HA HA HA.. my username is so ME... 

I specifically adore men who feel similar.. this does not mean they wouldn't want to rip their woman's clothes off either... Believe me.. my husband wanted me.. I wanted him too!!.. but we both strongly believed it's better to wait... slowly build a relationship, see if you both have what it takes to BE something lasting.. don't jump in too fast, nothing wrong with some sweet anticipation...

Then when you do make love.. it really IS making Love.. you want to consume the other person, the trust, the faith in each other.. it is so THERE.. it is awesome... we have a very passionate marriage... 

Truth is.. I cared so much about this, so thankful I met a man LIKE HIM (as I know these are not always such an easy find).... when I looked for our Wedding Invitations... I specifically was seeking one that spoke of being Best friends.. when I came to this one.. it was settled...



He's still my Best friend, My Lover.. my Everything.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Sweet

My dream too


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> See this is an assumed Stereotype ...I find this a lousy thing to say.. but then again.. I tend to look upon those who treat sex like a revolving door, sometimes you don't even know who the hell you F**ked...or their name!.... I wouldn't touch them or want anything to do with someone like that...
> 
> But really.. this stereotype is simply NOT always true... I have always believed in Friends first..I am Old fashioned like that.. a Cold fish... HA HA HA.. my username is so ME...
> 
> ...


No more a stero type than the one your trying to convey. Which would be that friends that marry have better more loving marriages. This board is full of posters that come here saying that their partners are good people that they get along great but they for some reason they just don't love them anymore. And many more that say I love my spouce but they are just very selfish in bed . 

If I remember your story you were kind of shy in the bedroom and it took years for you to have an awakening. And then you wished you would have had your sexual awakening sooner.

So while your tooting your horn on how your marriage is so great because you married your best friend there are just as many people who married their best friend only to be miserable and realise there's more to marriage than friendship. That sexual chemistry and sexual styles are important variables in if your marriage has a chance to make the long hall.

No where did I say to treat sex like a revolving door as you so eloquently put it. And to not even know their name. At the very least you should know their name>

As an older mature man I don't think I want to date any one who would have a gatekeeper attitude about sex. And friends first sound like a gatekeeper to me.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> As an older mature man I don't think I want to date any one who would have a gatekeeper attitude about sex. And friends first sound like a gatekeeper to me.


If that works for you, great. So what's the problem?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

chillymorn said:


> If I remember your story you were kind of shy in the bedroom and it took years for you to have an awakening. And then you wished you would have had your sexual awakening sooner.


 Yes ... shy in the bedroom..we met very young...I can't even say I regret my sexual views today or I could have ended up with a guy who used me ...I hate to say it.. but I think most guys are probably like that.. 

I always "O"ed... we were very compatible, without even knowing anything in our innocence... he was happy with our sex life from the beginning.. just wanted more of that.. always passion.. 

I'm not trying to toot my own horn.. I am giving my experience just as you are.. you look down on those who are conservative minded here.. I do not care for those who are liberal in this way...

I am disheartened with Aps like Tinder , people shop for sex like Ebay these days.. look.. even if you're not THAT BAD.. a thread "downing friendship"... I mean.....how it is going to be taken by those who value that... When I read that.. it's like.. "Wait a minute.. not so fast!"...

Look..if that's how you see it...you have a tremendous amount of company .... dating sites are ripe with those who feel like you.. I just want to give an opposing view -which has greatly lost popularity today...it's not always so cut & dried. 

Had I hooked up with the likes of some of the men on here who treat sex like a sport (I didn't say you but they surely exist).. it would have tainted my worldview... belief in romance or anything lasting... this meant a great deal *to me*, and I will not apologize for sensitivity there..

Again..I realize for most men.. this isn't on their radar... I don't think many people care anymore today, and that includes women, ...it seems more about variety, a good time... 



> So while your tooting your horn on how your marriage is so great because you married your best friend there are just as many people who married their best friend only to be miserable and realise there's more to marriage than friendship. *That sexual chemistry and sexual styles are important variables in if your marriage has a chance to make the long hall.*


 I wouldn't disagree with this... just cause one doesn't sleep with a new person by the 3rd, 4th , 5th date doesn't nullify that these things aren't important... they are important... All of it.. learning of each other.... what turns each other on.... why it works... it's all fascinating, relevant... if one has a fetish.. they better not stay with someone repulsed by it.. 



> No where did I say to treat sex like a revolving door as you so eloquently put it. And to not even know their name. *At the very least you should know their name*>


 well...that's a plus.



> As an older mature man I don't think I want to date any one who would have a gatekeeper attitude about sex. And friends first sound like a gatekeeper to me.


 And you have probably been burned by women like this.. yes ?? What sex means to us ... it's part of who we are.. it's important to be comfortable and really "get" why the other feels as they do...even appreciate them for it... I would have been so disappointed had I faced guy after guy after guy who felt as you describe here....I would have never felt safe or cared for ...Just saying..


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> And to not even know their name. At the very least you should know their name>


First AND last? Cuz, uhhh, hmmm. >


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*For a man, I'm probably in the minority, but I want to get to know the lady I'm dating rather well, before I ever get the urge to remove our clothes, get her totally worked up and out of breath, and make her holler and scream!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

arbitrator said:


> *For a man, I'm probably in the minority, but I want to get to know the lady I'm dating rather well, before I ever get the urge to remove our clothes, get her totally out of breath and make her holler and scream!*


If this is true.. I'm not quite getting why you gave Chilly a like on his Opening post.. as basically he was saying how *stupid* it is to have such an Urge.. and not get on with it- pretty much immediately... just ripping each others clothes right off...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Re: friends first*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Yes ... shy in the bedroom..we met very young...I can't even say I regret my sexual views today or I could have ended up with a guy who used me ...I hate to say it.. but I think most guys are probably like that..
> 
> I always "O"ed... we were very compatible, without even knowing anything in our innocence... he was happy with our sex life from the beginning.. just wanted more of that.. always passion..
> 
> ...


* @SimplyAmorous ~ In my next lifetime, I get dibs on having a loving marriage like yours!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> If this is true.. I'm not quite getting why you gave Chilly a like on his Opening post.. as basically he was saying how *stupid* it is to have such an Urge.. and not get on with it- pretty much immediately... just ripping each others clothes right off...


*I extended the "like" to CM solely because of their statement that "both parties" needed to get to know each other before ever embarking upon lovemaking! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> lots of women post that they want friends first, not a fwb or one night stand.


They are simply telling you what the official social rule is.

Ignore it. "The patient always lies". Look at the body and action cues.

Most likely they are building a trench that only the worthy will be able to cross.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

spotthedeaddog said:


> They are simply telling you what the official social rule is.
> 
> Ignore it. "The patient always lies". Look at the body and action cues.
> 
> Most likely they are building a trench that only the worthy will be able to cross.


Good point, and when you're on a dating site looking at a stranger's words - what does "friend's first" even mean to that person?

It might mean they'll sleep with you after 2 dates if they find you exceptionally, er, friendly... or it might mean they expect you to attend co-ed baby showers and play charades with them and their friends for a couple years before anything sexual...

I think I would take "friends first" just to mean this lady is not interested in being someone's casual sex F_ck buddy. As long as they say they are looking for something romantic ultimately. Then meet them and get to know them and you'll figure the rest out pretty fast.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Had I hooked up with the likes of some of the men on here who treat sex like a sport (I didn't say you but they surely exist).. it would have tainted my worldview... belief in romance or anything lasting... this meant a great deal *to me*, and I will not apologize for sensitivity there..


I treat sex like sport and often (though not always) had sex with women at their request shortly after meeting them. Yet I can happily relate that on Sunday I had a terrific day celebrating 17 years of a great monogamous marriage with my best friend who also happens to be my wife.

The thing is though my wife and I have no regrets over sharing no strings, no relationship expectation sex with each other on our third date almost twenty years ago. Whilst we also don't regret having no relationship expectation sex with other people either.

When my wife and I first started having sex together we just wanted to have some fun, almost twenty years later we're still together simply because we're both still having lots of fun.

One doesn't have to marry a virgin, marry young, only have one sexual partner or very few sexual partners, be friends before one has sex in order to enjoy a terrific, successful long term sexual relationship.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Livvie said:


> Huge double standard. As someone else mentioned, men want women with "low numbers" but are ready to dump a new women they are dating if she won't have sex within the first three dates?? The two don't match up.


It's not a double standard to Chilly or those like him.. they don't care about numbers, they prefer those who've been around & the clothes shed easily...what often comes with this thinking is a desire to not get married , never marry again (which has been laid out in his words)... commitment is less important over one's personal pleasure.... 

It's only a hypocrite if one doesn't personally live by the ideals they appreciate in another..


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

If I had to be out there again to date, I would be very suspicious of a guy who says "friends first."

I go by what is happening. If 
1. I am spending more and more of my free time with this guy
2. he bristles when I am not available
3. asks ever more personal questions about me (I realise now that when I and my husband were dating, he asked me how much money I make which was a question that his "special friend" put him up to ask)
4. wants to know more about the other people I go out with, especially other guys......


well, he is not much of a friend.

One problem that we have in this society is the blurring of relationship boundaries. And some people are very good at getting the best out of it. For the rest of us, we need to be careful.

One problem that comes out of this, is that the more time we spend with "Friends First" the more we may miss opportunities with other people. It's quite often that just being seen together whether alone or with others gives the impression that you're on a date with this person and therefore, unavailable.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

This might offend some (not my intention) but when a woman tells a guy she wants to be friends, it really means she wants a girlfriend, with better, truer insight into men, that can empathize with her and her feelings ("validate me"). 

Constable Odo calls a male friend to a woman an "emotional tampon," and although crude, I agree with his assessment. That's because in my younger days I wanted and enjoyed lots of male friends and they served that express purpose. My mind had decided they were "just friends" and just "got me" so it was OK, even when I was married. Constable Odo was on the other side in his life once or twice and had female friends that kept him in orbit, until he wisened to it. Make no mistake, he admits he stayed friends hoping for more. He is male, after all!  

I kept a lot of men from making their girlfriend their main focus, and in a twisted way I even enjoyed knowing I could keep them interested enough to monopolize their time. It sickens me now, but at the time I was younger and didn't know half of what I know now. I didn't have a good female role model tell me and teach me about inappropriate behavior and relationships. I learned by creating my own mess that I had to crawl out of... A much tougher and lasting method of learning.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Personal said:


> I treat sex like sport and often (though not always) had sex with women at their request shortly after meeting them. Yet I can happily relate that on Sunday I had a terrific day celebrating 17 years of a great monogamous marriage with my best friend who also happens to be my wife.
> 
> The thing is though my wife and I have no regrets over sharing no strings, no relationship expectation sex with each other on our third date almost twenty years ago. Whilst we also don't regret having no relationship expectation sex with other people either.
> 
> ...


 I never implied otherwise, did I? 

Just because I stick my head in this thread and give a counter view, another experience to those who are calling women who feel differently STUPID, narrow minded, @Bananapeel thinks we all speak out of 2 sides of our mouth, selfish sexually ...basically a waste of time in no way = that I don't think others who meet , screw can't fall in love.. I'm not that brain dead Personal... seriously.. of course such people can have happy successful marriages.. you married someone you're compatible with... she's your equal....you GET each other... 

I would most certainly find men like you a huge risk and you would belittle my feelings and assume I'm uptight and all kinds of awful ugly things.. so yeah... 

If someone asked me what I feel the foundation of a successful marriage was.. virginity & meeting young doesn't come to mind...obviously feeling marriage is worthwhile would be a part of it, wanting to share a life, but at it's







...it's about caring how the other feels, an unselfishness, compatibility, "getting each other".. It's compatibility on a # of fronts... you obviously have this..... 

Many get together thinking if they had a whirlwind sex life that it will never die.. but problems arise that can eat away at the passion (could be spending habits, disagreement on kids, how many, how they raise them, where to live, anything really) that kills their enthusiasm for each other...the emotional investment is important too, taking the time to REALLY get to know someone -to avoid that sort of fall out later down the road...

And some get lucky and it works out..


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Bananapeel thinks we all speak out of 2 sides of our mouth


Wow, that's a gross generalization and complete misrepresentation of what I think. Think about it this way...if I meet someone and give her butterflies then her initial intent going into a date may be different than the outcome. People are allowed to change their mind and often do based on their level of interest in a potential partner. This isn't thinking women are two faced, it's just a basic understanding of human psychology, and the more emotionally driven (vs logically driven) a person is the more likely they may change their mind. 

Someone must have touched off a nerve in you since you don't normally have such angry posts. Hopefully your day gets better.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Bananapeel said:


> Wow, that's a gross generalization and complete misrepresentation of what I think. Think about it this way...if I meet someone and give her butterflies then her initial intent going into a date may be different than the outcome. People are allowed to change their mind and often do based on their level of interest in a potential partner. This isn't thinking women are two faced, it's just a basic understanding of human psychology, and the more emotionally driven (vs logically driven) a person is the more likely they may change their mind.
> 
> Someone must have touched off a nerve in you since you don't normally have such angry posts. Hopefully your day gets better.


Your post is just another indication that a woman who doesn't put out by the end of the night is not worth anyone's time...hitting a nerve.. Maybe...it's just the realization that I think I've been giving men FAR TOO MUCH CREDIT for years on this forum because I've been treated so well..... that I really have NO IDEA what men LIKE THIS are really like.. being dumped so easily.. and NO... it wouldn't have been a "green light" for me , even if I wanted to devour him.. I say what I mean. and mean what I say.. 

Your quote was this "What women say and what they do are not always in sync. If she likes you and you turn her on, then it's usually a green light. If she's insisting on a friendship first then I wouldn't waste my time."

You did use "not always".. I'll agree with you... there are women LIKE THAT.. it's just I was not like this...I spoke what I meant from the get go..and if the guy felt I was just blowing smoke up his a$$ , this would upset me a great deal, when he thought.. "Oh she was just bluffing me"... 

That yeah... I care to get to know a man, friendship is a part of that...that I could come to him for anything.. that he'd be THERE.. that I could trust him.... find that we have something real before he is reaching down my pants.. 

Unfortunately we watched a guy friend go through this with a woman friend who lead him on...so he'd do things for her.. pay for things...she used him.. sure he was plan B.. plan C.. or plan Zero.. I basically had to hit him over the head with a brick telling him to drop the user B...get his head out of his a$$... we were there for the fall out...it was excruciating for him...

I am very much against people using each other.. whether it's for sex.. or using a guy for money.. milking it.. when she KNOWS she doesn't want him.. that's very very UGLY.. this was brought up in the 2nd post here by blueinbr about men throwing $$ at going out to see if friendship turns into desire.....

Maybe I am being misunderstood.. I never led a guy on to think I just wanted to be friends KNOWING I'd never be interested in him sexually.. That's NOT ME.. but I was very clear that friendship , an emotional connection was part of the deal.. I was looking for a good man.. the marrying type.. not someone looking for a fast roll in the hay... I was never a liar and I spoke my intentions clearly..and I honored them too. 

I just find it very sad as this is the sh* our daughter will have to put up with - with guys today...as I realize this is the majority thinking in our society..


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

SA-You still have a major misunderstanding of me, which is your prerogative. I'm always honest and direct about my intentions from the beginning, and I date with the intention of finding someone I'm romantically compatible with and mutually attracted to. By one date I can tell if there is a mutual romantic interest and if there isn't I'm not going to waste either of our time. There is also a big difference between getting to know someone better (a reasonable part of the dating process) and insisting on a friendship first (covert contract), and perhaps this is the crux of our disagreement. I think we also have very different expectations regarding what friendships mean vs relationships mean.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Bananapeel said:


> SA-You still have a major misunderstanding of me, which is your prerogative. I'm always honest and direct about my intentions from the beginning, and I date with the intention of finding someone I'm romantically compatible with and mutually attracted to. By one date I can tell if there is a mutual romantic interest and if there isn't I'm not going to waste either of our time. There is also a big difference between getting to know someone better (a reasonable part of the dating process) and insisting on a friendship first (covert contract), and perhaps this is the crux of our disagreement. I think we also have very different expectations regarding what friendships mean vs relationships mean.


Yes...I probably am misunderstanding you.. but there clearly are men on this forum who have a 3 date rule.. those posts always stand out to me.. or the woman is dumped.. that's how they feel..I guess I should be thankful they are honest.. 

Which is better than wasting someones time -for sure.. 

I will never see those who need to f**k that quick to be the Romantic though.. at least not my definition of the word... I define romantic to be on the sensitive & spiritual side..


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Satya said:


> This might offend some (not my intention) but when a woman tells a guy she wants to be friends, it really means she wants a girlfriend, with better, truer insight into men, that can empathize with her and her feelings ("validate me").
> 
> Constable Odo calls a male friend to a woman an "emotional tampon," and although crude, I agree with his assessment. That's because in my younger days I wanted and enjoyed lots of male friends and they served that express purpose. My mind had decided they were "just friends" and just "got me" so it was OK, even when I was married. Constable Odo was on the other side in his life once or twice and had female friends that kept him in orbit, until he wisened to it. Make no mistake, he admits he stayed friends hoping for more. He is male, after all!
> 
> I kept a lot of men from making their girlfriend their main focus, and in a twisted way I even enjoyed knowing I could keep them interested enough to monopolize their time. It sickens me now, but at the time I was younger and didn't know half of what I know now. I didn't have a good female role model tell me and teach me about inappropriate behavior and relationships. I learned by creating my own mess that I had to crawl out of... A much tougher and lasting method of learning.


*Your candor and honesty speaks sheer volumes, M'dear! But unlike many others, you've brought home a very valuable lesson from your experiences!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kari (Feb 17, 2012)

Bananapeel said:


> There is also a big difference between getting to know someone better (a reasonable part of the dating process) and insisting on a friendship first (covert contract)


I'm not sure why wanting to be friends first is a 'covert contract', can you explain? I think this phrase is often used by women just to mean they are looking for a relationship, not casual sex. It doesn't necessary mean she will make you wait for months or jump through hoops, but it may mean don't expect intimacy with her before she gets to know you and comes to think there might be relationship potential for the two of you.

It seems like the phrase 'friends first' has a negative connotation to some of you guys, perhaps implying a woman may not be honest about whether she is attracted to a man she dates, and if she's not attracted to him, might waste his time for weeks or months by keeping him around him as an orbiter or a plan B. Or maybe 'friends first' sounds like a code phrase for low drive or not very sexual.

So what wording in a dating profile would work better if a woman wants to communicate that she is looking for a romantic partner (but is not LD, not a prude or a cold fish, not expecting to wait until marriage) but simply wouldn't want to be intimate without knowing the man very well first and developing trust and emotional closeness which would take some time.
I think bringing up sex or intimacy (directly) on a first or second date or in a dating profile would be weird and too abrupt and thus some indirect wording would be preferred. I've heard that some men looking for a serious relationship still don't like seeing 'not interested in casual sex or hookups or NSA' since it sounds overly blunt/tacky/ presumptuous, or they feel insulted as if you are accusing them of being that type just by writing that in a profile. So, what would be better (short and simple) wording to communicate you are looking for a potential LTR but that you don't want to rush to either commitment or intimacy before spending enough time together to know if you are compatible?

If you don't happen to already know the other person as a friend first, I think it is best to start out meeting for talks over coffee, going dutch, taking separate cars or transportation. Then I think after 3 or 4 of these non-date non-romantic talking meetings, you would know if you were interested in having an actual date, starting with just kissing, then progressing to more over the next several dates. However, I wouldn't want to wait many months to have sex since sexual compatibility is so important and it is best to find out early if there is an obvious deal-breaker in that area. I'd want at least a temporary agreement of exclusivity and maybe STD testing before becoming intimate. I'm very HD, but the idea of sleeping with a guy who is also sleeping with other women and isn't serious about me does not appeal.

I'm married and haven't dated for decades, but I still remember uncomfortable first dates in my teenage years going to a movie and the guy wants to snuggle and kiss and maybe make out when we hardly knew each other. Also, my HS boyfriend was very good looking and we had great chemistry but I eventually (after several months) realized all we really had was physical attraction and not much else in common. Fun while it lasted, but ultimately a waste of our time and emotions when we could better have spent the time looking for a more compatible partner. If I were single again, I wouldn't want to fall into those traps again. You (OP and others that agree with him) don't want to waste time on dates not involving sex, but (if single) I wouldn't want to waste much time in sexual relationships with guys that I didn't think had fairly good potential to be a compatible match for me in the long term.

I agree that having one person be 'the sexual gatekeeper' once there is a committed exclusive sexual relationship is not a good situation because it seems like an HD/LD mismatch or a power game. But before that, during the early dating weeks, I think it is smarter if the man and woman are both gatekeepers and don't jump in to intimacy until they know each other quite well.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

@Kari - Sure, I'd be happy to explain. Friendship serves a different purpose than romantic relationships. When I'm looking for a friend it is someone to share activities/hobbies with (e.g. restore a car, build something, go fishing, etc.); I don't need that in a relationship since it's OK for each of us to have our own separate hobbies, as long as we still enjoy spending time together. For a long term relationship I'm looking for someone that has a shared vision of the future, has shared lifestyle/child raising goals (if applicable), and is sexually compatible with me; I don't need those things for a friendship. This doesn't mean that I can't be friends with a girlfriend, just that they serve different parts of my life. I just don't see how requiring a friendship first is needed for a romantic relationship, and it comes off as controlling in my mind, which doesn't work for me since I have a strong and independent personality type. 

How should a woman address that to a guy? Hmmm. I guess she should say that she enjoys the process of dating and building a relationship, and doesn't want to skip to end and miss out on some of the best steps in the middle.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I loved your Post @Kari ...those are Great questions ... I'd struggle with these same questions, how to do a Profile justice to weed out the casual sex crowd...but not come off as a cold fish... 

It's surely not an easy thing to pull off.. If I ever found myself single (God forbid)...I've thought about this some.. probably the best fit for me would be to find a man on "Christian mingle" or some Farmer dating site, I love the country.... at least seeking more of a family type guy...but then if he's too religious.. this wouldn't work for me either... I'd end up in some debate with him & he'd dump me ! I am conservative minded in many ways.. but not religious, dogma wise like at all.. I'm a "square peg trying to fit into a round hole" in a # of ways...



Bananapeel said:


> @Kari - Sure, I'd be happy to explain. Friendship serves a different purpose than romantic relationships. When I'm looking for a friend it is someone to share activities/hobbies with (e.g. restore a car, build something, go fishing, etc.); I don't need that in a relationship since it's OK for each of us to have our own separate hobbies, as long as we still enjoy spending time together.


 see this is where I differ with a lot of people.. myself & husband are one of those couples who enjoy doing everything together.. I'd go fishing with him.. he works on vehicles & stuff...sometimes a guy friend comes over, they're out in the garage for hours...but it'd be nothing for me to help him change a transmission, rolling on the ground getting greasy right along with him, we've done that a couple times... 

I see true friendship and a Romantic relationship all rolled into one.... I'm independent minded.. but I'd far rather spend time with my man than a group of women any day! .. . and he's never been the type to care about hanging out with the guys either..I am not saying that because I am controlling in any way.. that's just how he genuinely IS, has always been.. 

If I had to nag him to spend time with me.. I would have dumped him a long long time ago.. he wouldn't have been what I wanted.. in this way. .I've actually been very spoiled.. in fact.. in comparing us both, he's spoken more about wanting more time with me.. 

He would say Family keeps him well busy enough.. that's his hobby.. he has a few others, coin collecting is one.. . I go to the shows with him too...

Between your view and mine.. TRUE.. these are 2 very different couples... 



> For a long term relationship I'm looking for someone that has a shared vision of the future, has shared lifestyle/child raising goals (if applicable), and is sexually compatible with me; I don't need those things for a friendship. This doesn't mean that I can't be friends with a girlfriend, just that they serve different parts of my life. I just don't see how requiring a friendship first is needed for a romantic relationship, and it comes off as controlling in my mind, which doesn't work for me since I have a strong and independent personality type.
> 
> How should a woman address that to a guy? Hmmm. I guess she should say that she enjoys the process of dating and building a relationship, and doesn't want to skip to end and miss out on some of the best steps in the middle.


 I think your answer here at the end doesn't really say much of anything.... better to just say you'r not looking for a friend, you have enough guys for that...it may sound abrupt.. but it's how you feel, isn't it....at least it would weed my type out ...


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

bottom line is don't read dating profiles. find you match the old fashion way. because profiles are full of half truths. kind of like facebook. all fluff and no stuff.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

How can any guy reading a dating profile not realize that a woman who says she wants to be "friends" first, really means that she wants to develop a relationship (i.e. get to know you a bit and realize that you have relationship potential) before having sex with you. I find it hard to believe that guys reading "friends first" think that the woman (posting on a dating site!) is looking for a fishing buddy rather than a romantic relationship.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> How can any guy reading a dating profile not realize that a woman who says she wants to be "friends" first, really means that she wants to develop a relationship (i.e. get to know you a bit and realize that you have relationship potential) before having sex with you. I find it hard to believe that guys reading "friends first" think that the woman (posting on a dating site!) is* looking for a fishing buddy rather than a romantic relationship*.


I call BS, I have acquired 3 fishing buddies since I joined Match and my FarmersOnly subscription has gotten me a fabulous vegetable garden :moon:


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> I call BS, I have acquired 3 fishing buddies since I joined Match and my FarmersOnly subscription has gotten me a fabulous vegetable garden :moon:


Maybe I should join Match; I need some help staining my deck!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> How can any guy reading a dating profile not realize that a woman who says she wants to be "friends" first, really means that she wants to develop a relationship (i.e. get to know you a bit and realize that you have relationship potential) before having sex with you. I find it hard to believe that guys reading "friends first" think that the woman (posting on a dating site!) is looking for a fishing buddy rather than a romantic relationship.


Most of the women who put "friends first" in their profile are just trying to dissuade the sex-only responders and players. It doesn't really work, of course, unless they also add in stuff about religious convictions, etc. Just skip these if that's not to your liking.

The reality is that most of these women WILL have sex after two or three dates if they see any potential for a relationship (and often, even if they don't). You can usually tell by the end of the first date which ones really mean what they said in their profile, and never see them again if they're so uptight about sex - most likely, their values and libido are never going to match with your own.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Even with "no casual sex" n "religious preference" I still get sex offers. No, I am not a cold fish. I love sex. Just that I choose who n when I will do it with. N it's when I am in a relationship. 

I take it as a compliment with those sex offers.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Maybe I should join Match; I need some help staining my deck!


You will have better luck with Plenty of Fish if you are looking for someone more Home Improvement oriented :wink2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> lots of women post that they want friends first, not a fwb or one night stand.
> 
> Most of my friend looking for a woman for long term relationship want some action. this whole friends first thing isn't cutting it. It smells of cold fish.
> 
> ...


I guess my question, what kind of time frame do you or your friends have in mind for some action?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MrsAldi said:


> When a man's says to a women "I think we should be friends" means he's not into her, but he'll have sex with her anyway. (If it's offered)
> When a woman


 like say you?


> says to a man "I think we should be friends" means she's not into him, but is keeping him around incase nothing better (richer) shows up.


So you are saying that, as a woman, you want a man for his MONEY? Speak for yourself, sweetheart.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> I guess my question, what kind of time frame do you or your friends have in mind for some action?


5 mins.

LSK lick them stick them then kick them.........:wink2:

thats what some of the women think I wanted. 


heres another profile pet peeve.

I'm a homemaker,waitress,fast food employee,(insert low end ambition-less job) but I looking for a guy with ambition.


I'm not even looking I'm still married and don't plan on being a cheater But I have surfed some profiles to see whats out there. and have talked to my newly single friends about it. so I thought I would ask peoples thoughts about it.

conclusion. 

most 50 plus singles are bat sh!t crazy.:surprise:


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> How can any guy reading a dating profile not realize that a woman who says she wants to be "friends" first, really means that she wants to develop a relationship (i.e. get to know you a bit and realize that you have relationship potential) before having sex with you. I find it hard to believe that guys reading "friends first" think that the woman (posting on a dating site!) is looking for a fishing buddy rather than a romantic relationship.


Umm because some are looking for friends only until the one they "want" come along. Why they are on dating sites I have no clue. If they "want to take things slow" that would be a better way to state it than looking for friends or friends first. That is a better way to seperate from the crowd of those who are looking for attention only or friends only/mostly


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I call BS, I have acquired 3 fishing buddies since I joined Match and my FarmersOnly subscription has gotten me a fabulous vegetable garden :moon:


I met my great friend and hiking buddy on Match :grin2:


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I would want to be "friends" FIRST. I'm not having sex with a man until I know him a bit and we get STD tests done. I'm not uptight and I'm HD. Be careful how you label people, you can't judge a woman on these things solely on the basis of if she has sex with you within the first few dates


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> 5 mins.
> 
> LSK lick them stick them then kick them.........:wink2:
> 
> ...


Having dated in my thirties and now 40's I think that number need to go down to 20+ singles are crazy lol


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Umm because some are looking for friends only until the one they "want" come along. Why they are on dating sites I have no clue. If they "want to take things slow" that would be a better way to state it than looking for friends or friends first. That is a better way to seperate from the crowd of those who are looking for attention only or friends only/mostly


I don't know. I think you are likely misinterpreting and missing out if you are filtering out those that say "friends first". 

That said, I think online dating is not the way to go in any case. I would not be looking there, but I have a lot of things going on in my life that take me into the world where I meet a lot of people. For anyone who has a life that keeps their outside contacts to a minimum, I think *that's* what you need to change if you're single and want to meet a suitable partner. Online dating is too risky and would waste way too much time, IMO.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Livvie said:


> I would want to be "friends" FIRST. I'm not having sex with a man until I know him a bit and we get STD tests done. I'm not uptight and I'm HD. Be careful how you label people, you can't judge a woman on these things solely on the basis of if she has sex with you within the first few dates


well if I say I really like blow jobs and she says yuck then ok see ya later.

its the whole friends thing I don't consider friends as a good starting point for a romantic relationship. and then the attitude that sounds like the sexual gate keeper. I think most guys are turned off by that friends first line. or the I'm very ambitious statement. mean while they don't seem ambitious


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I don't know. I think you are likely misinterpreting and missing out if you are filtering out those that say "friends first".
> 
> That said, I think online dating is not the way to go in any case. I would not be looking there, but I have a lot of things going on in my life that take me into the world where I meet a lot of people. For anyone who has a life that keeps their outside contacts to a minimum, I think *that's* what you need to change if you're single and want to meet a suitable partner. Online dating is too risky and would waste way too much time, IMO.


It's really just a filter and I don't have a problem with those who state what they want. This way we don't waste each other's time. For example my hiking partner Tracy. She had on her profile friends first and at that time of my life I was only really looking for friends and casual hookups so we became friends, I wouldn't have contacted her otherwise. We have never been more and never will be, not my type. But we love to hike and she has time on her hands so that's what we do.

I am the odd ball that likes online dating. Probably because once I learned how it worked I was successful at it. It's a great opportunity to meet people outside your social circle for example. I never would have met my GF otherwise. So people put this "tag line" in that maybe they don't mean it how it comes across but it is what it is when you are trying to weed through hundreds of profiles to determine who you will contact. When I am looking to date with hopes of a serious relationship three tag lines are automatic pass
My kids will always come first
Friends first
My job comes first


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> well if I say I really like blow jobs and she says yuck then ok see ya later.
> 
> its the whole friends thing I don't consider friends as a good starting point for a romantic relationship. and then the attitude that sounds like the sexual gate keeper. I think most guys are turned off by that friends first line. or the I'm very ambitious statement. mean while they don't seem ambitious


I get the feeling that you don't have a lot of finesse...lol..

Say a guy says on a date: "I really like blow jobs", and his date says "yuck". There are a couple of possible interpretations of this exchange:

1) The date hates BJs, therefore they are sexually incompatible. (This would appear to be your interpretation, Chilly).

2) The date loves to give BJs in a loving relationship but is massively turned off by an obvious "player" who feels nothing for her at all and is so socially inept that he would interact with a date in this manner.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> I get the feeling that you don't have a lot of finesse...lol..
> 
> Say a guy says on a date: "I really like blow jobs", and his date says "yuck". There are a couple of possible interpretations of this exchange:
> 
> ...


I have what I would call sledge hammer finesse!

is that not good?:grin2:


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> I have what I would call sledge hammer finesse!
> 
> is that not good?:grin2:


You tell me: does it work?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

obvious players have tremendous finesse. 

honest loyal guys seem to be lacking.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> You tell me: does it work?


with the right person! sick of games just want honesty. no time for bullsh!t.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> You tell me: does it work?


lol I'm getting to the point of I don't care what works I'm just going to be me if its not your cup of joe .....cool


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> like say you?
> So you are saying that, as a woman, you want a man for his MONEY? Speak for yourself, sweetheart.


 @NobodySpecial no I don't want any man for money. 
I earn my own.
I was just saying there are people like that out there. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> with the right person! sick of games just want honesty. no time for bullsh!t.


This is true from my experience. The more direct and confident you are, even if that confidence is just an I don't care attitude masked as confidence, the more successful you are at getting what you want


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> lol I'm getting to the point of I don't care what works I'm just going to be me if its not your cup of joe .....cool


You should always be who you really are, right from the beginning. So if that is who you really are, then it's definitely cool that you're up front about it.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> lol I'm getting to the point of I don't care what works I'm just going to be me if its not your cup of joe .....cool


I think that's really the only way to be! 

Why on earth would I pretend to be anything other than my authentic self to attract a mate? All I'd end up with is someone who was attracted to something I wasn't.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Rowan said:


> I think that's really the only way to be!
> 
> Why on earth would I pretend to be anything other than my authentic self to attract a mate? All I'd end up with is someone who was attracted to something I wasn't.


well theres a limit. I can't very well walk around and tell people who are a$$hats to get their head out of their ass. 

you have to have a filter to some degree


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> well theres a limit. I can't very well walk around and tell people who are a$$hats to get their head out of their ass.
> 
> you have to have a filter to some degree


Honestly, if you're the sort of person who would regularly go around telling folks to get their head out of their ass, then I'd greatly prefer you do that in your online dating profile and/or by the first date. That way, I know what I'm getting right from the start. I can decide if who you really are is someone I'm interested in, or if that's just not for me.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Rowan said:


> Honestly, if you're the sort of person who would regularly go around telling folks to get their head out of their ass, then I'd greatly prefer you do that in your online dating profile and/or by the first date. That way, I know what I'm getting right from the start. I can decide if who you really are is someone I'm interested in, or if that's just not for me.


Or worse case show up to the first date actually wearing an A$shat


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

chillymorn said:


> lol I'm getting to the point of I don't care what works I'm just going to be me if its not your cup of joe .....cool


A friend of mine was at my house looking up profiles many yrs ago now. she came across one that was HONEST to a fault.. this guy was looking for sex partners.. he laid it out there exactly how he wanted it.. you ever qualify to fit his expectations. or you get off his profile so you won't be wasting his time...

I wish so bad I would have copied & pasted that.. it was classic...

I loved it personally.. if you are over this weight ___ click away....

If you have mental issues, click away.. if you have any expectations I will call you in the morning... click away.. he was HOT, he knew it.. he spoke of his lover skills, and what he will bring the woman for a night.. she won't be disappointed ....he was in it for the pleasure bang, and nothing more.. 

My friend was completely repulsed... calling him a D*** and what not.. 

I told her he was just being forthright.. rude as it may come off.. many feel just like that..but instead lie & play games to get in the woman's pants...at least he was getting the offense out of the way reading his profile.. so the woman could cuss him up & down , then click away..

I wish more were this honest up front. then it wouldn't be so weird for the rest of us.. trying to find the perfect words or phrases to not turn anyone off.. what a racket it all is..


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> A friend of mine was at my house looking up profiles many yrs ago now. she came across one that was HONEST to a fault.. this guy was looking for sex partners.. he laid it out there exactly how he wanted it.. you ever qualify to fit his expectations. or you get off his profile so you won't be wasting his time...
> 
> I wish so bad I would have copied & pasted that.. it was classic...
> 
> ...


SA, seems as if that guy should have posted in the brief encounters section.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

NextTimeAround said:


> SA, seems as if that guy should have posted in the brief encounters section.


So Dating sites all have a "Brief Encounters" section? What would I know... this was MANY years ago now.. maybe even before Craig's List became a "Personals" thing.. long before Tinder.. which it was here I learned about what people do on there..

I really wish Dating sites would offer a Filter for those who are seeking something more serious, long lasting- preferably... over those just looking for a good time & fast easy sex.... This would be very helpful..


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> So Dating sites all have a "Brief Encounters" section? What would I know... this was MANY years ago now.. maybe even before Craig's List became a "Personals" thing.. long before Tinder.. which it was here I learned about what people do on there..
> 
> I really wish Dating sites would offer a Filter for those who are seeking something more serious, long lasting- preferably... over those just looking for a good time & fast easy sex.... This would be very helpful..


I recall that one could designate "brief encounters" back when I briefly did OLD in the naughties 2008 and earlier......

I rembmer on another message board a woman admitted to doing both at the same time and noticed that while hot guys -- 9s and 10s-- would contact her under brief encounters, more 5s and 6s would contact her on the LT relationship section.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

NextTimeAround said:


> I recall that one could designate "brief encounters" back when I briefly did OLD in the naughties 2008 and earlier......
> 
> I rembmer on another message board a woman admitted to doing both at the same time and noticed that while hot guys -- 9s and 10s-- would contact her under brief encounters, more 5s and 6s would contact her on the LT relationship section.


I'd take a 5 or 6 over a Penis that sticks it in umteen women any day.... guess it's all in what someone wants in life..


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I really wish Dating sites would offer a Filter for those who are seeking something more serious, long lasting- preferably... over those just looking for a good time & fast easy sex.... This would be very helpful..


I dunno. Don't think it would help much, really. Someone could put up a fake profile and haunt both the "serious" section and the "looking for sex" section. 

What they do today is to put up a profile that _says_ they're looking for an LTR, but in reality they're only looking for sex.

They'll find a way to increase their chances of getting laid.

Unfortunately, teenage boys aren't they ONLY males who will lie to get sex.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Vega said:


> I dunno. Don't think it would help much, really. Someone could put up a fake profile and haunt both the "serious" section and the "looking for sex" section.
> 
> *What they do today is to put up a profile that says they're looking for an LTR, but in reality they're only looking for sex.
> *
> ...



I hear that some men claim to want children to justify dating only younger women.


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