# Now what? BIL stealing from MIL



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

DH & I own a house. MIL lives in it. She has dementia & can't live alone. We're about 900 miles away. There is no $$ to put her in a nursing home. 

BIL & his wife moved in over the summer. They are supposed to be caring for her. They live there rent free in exchange for caring for mom. We just found out they have drained her bank account -- over $8,500. Mom now has no money to pay doctor / medical bills / co-pays or for her prescriptions. We can cover one month & she's get a new Social Security check next month. We are cutting off BIL's access to the account. 

DH Is FURIOUS. This is his brother. DH wants to have him arrested. I don't think we can make the charges stick. Under Florida law the infirm / elderly person has to be the one pressing the charges. Even if MIL had her faculties, she'd never punish her favorite son. In her eyes he could never do wrong, not even when he was convicted of drug trafficing. he was caught with 1,000 pounds of marijuana before it was legal. 

I'm at a loss. I guess I just keep my head down & let DH do what he feels is best. Lord knows he will never forgive his brother & that is end of the relationship. But when DH kicks his brother & the wife out of the house, I'm worried what happens to MIL. 

What a mess!


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

it is not ever going to be easy for you , mil has except too much crap for too long and if she is not able look out for herself now she is going to end up in a very bad place for her next few years , 

bil and sil seem to be users and will be there as long as there is something to get life can be hard and family can make it more so


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Sorry I see if differently. Assisted living facilities cost 10000 a month caregivers 30 an hour or full time 500 a day. If brother in law is providing reasonable care with his wife he is grossly undercompensated. When I saw the post saying her account was drained I was expecting to see a loss of 75000 100000 or more. I thought Medicaid could provide reimbursement to family members under certain circumstances. If the brother in law and wife will continue to stay that seems to be a good solution and otherwise the writer might be asked to pay 75-100000 for nursing home care.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Mom is not yet on Medicaid. The state is dragging its feet approving her. We applied in February. 

BIL is not providing real care for MIL. He & his wife make sure she showers (rarely more than 2x per week) & wears clothes. When they prepare dinner, they make her a plate. They crush up her pills & put the meds in her breakfast before they go to work. We were using MIL's money to pay for 1/2 utilities and contribute to groceries. Somebody else spends all day with her and takes her to doctor's appointments. Twice per week we used her money to pay for a home health aide to come in but BIL fired that person & didn't tell us. We found out when we showed up. 

Her children got together & agreed to this arrangement. If BIL wanted money he should have said something & spoken up. He didn't He was a sneaky SOB about it & stole from the mom. He took cash which he used to go on vacations by himself leaving his wife in the house & the rest was spent in bars. How the <bleep> do you spend $12,000 in bars in 5 months when you drink in dives? So really what kind of care was he providing when he was out drinking then home hung over?

Now MIL is between a rock & a hard place. She has no money. He's gone. She still needs food medicine & utilities. So now that will come out of mine & DH's pockets and we don't have the money. We're going to have to stop funding our own retirement. 

Fortunately, the police & the dept of human services see it our way. They have launched an investigation. We expect an arrest & felony prosecution by the end of next week. We have moved to evict BIL & SIL. Once they are out, DH & I will have the locks changed & they are dead to us.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

Wow...that certainly sucks. Maybe there is local community that can help. IE. Social services or even welfare. Catholic charities might also be able to help as well as off the books caregivers. 

Unfortunately, you will not be able to get the money back. If prosecuted there may be a victims compensation fund that could help. 

.I know someone that went thru something similar. It didn't end well. They became a respite / ward of the state. The state took all of thier remaining assets. Including thier home and property. Make sure ANY joint assets are not tied back to you , unless it's in cash and not tied by paper. When you kick the BIL / SIL out , make sure someone is there when they move out

Try to get an accounting of everything in the house ( prior ) that does not belong to them. Jewelry ect. Even wedding bands. They will be looking for money on the exit

Sorry your going thru this , best of luck, Jimi


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Had he been convicted of drug trafficking *before* he and his wife moved in?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Yes, @Sfort he was. We knew about the conviction but he was never an addict. He didn't take drugs. He just sold them -- in large quantities -- by the pound. The mother took care of him when he was released from jail. Nobody has ever seen him high. 

It's the dishonestly. If it was too much & he felt under valued, he could have left. He didn't have to steal. I hate a thief. But the fact that he broke my husband's heart is unforgivable to me. 

@Jimi007 -- mom has no assets. We did the proper Medicaid planning. There was nothing to plan. She never had much. All she had was the money BIL stole. We need the police report / conviction to avoid any look-back.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Bobby5000 said:


> Sorry I see if differently. Assisted living facilities cost 10000 a month caregivers 30 an hour or full time 500 a day. If brother in law is providing reasonable care with his wife he is grossly undercompensated. When I saw the post saying her account was drained I was expecting to see a loss of 75000 100000 or more. I thought Medicaid could provide reimbursement to family members under certain circumstances. If the brother in law and wife will continue to stay that seems to be a good solution and otherwise the writer might be asked to pay 75-100000 for nursing home care.


These are my thoughts exactly. ^ 

You said the BIL had access to the accounts. How so? Did your mom let him use her debit card or write him checks? If she did, then what do you think’s going to happen to him? You think he’s going to be prosecuted for his mom giving him money? How do you know he wasted it all drinking in bars? Maybe he had bills to pay?

You said she has no assets and that you and your husband own the house she’s living in. You mean you and your husband transferred the title into your names more than 5 years ago, to avoid the Medicaid look back? It was never her house? 

This is so typical in the caregiver world. One member of the family plays like they care from 900 miles away, probably holds the POA, and dangles it in front of the other sibling’s faces, instead of actually doing anything to help.

This is a perfect example of ‘No good deed goes unpunished.’

Here’s your BIL 900 miles away, actually doing the caregiving and not being compensated one thin dime. You let him live in the house rent free? Big deal. It’s not like you pay the mortgage is it? Is there any mortgage? Doubtful. It’s already paid for probably. Was it your mom’s house first?

And here’s you, instead of making a caregiver agreement and paying the man out of your mom’s money if need be, you’re mad that he needed money to live on and had access to it? Do you know what an agency would charge you for 24/7 care of your mom? Thousands and thousands of dollars per month. 25$ an hour. 24 hours a day. Add it up.

You know what a nursing home costs now? Upwards of 10 grand a month.

You had your mother in law taken care of by her son, it was working for everyone involved, and instead you choose to prosecute the man for ‘stealing’. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Your husband is “heartbroken”? I tell you who’s going to be heartbroken. ALL of you when the state comes in and appoints a guardian and takes his mom out of the house and throws her wherever they feel like throwing her. You think she’s going to get better care wherever they put her? 

There is no compensation great enough to deal with, and take care of a person with dementia. Trust me. It’s a labor of _love._The pill giving is caregiving, yes. The feeding and showering her -yea. all caregiving. Dealing with her probable sundowning every single day, turning her into a not so nice lady, yep. Still caregiving. Making sure she doesn’t wander outside at night, getting lost and freezing to death - all caregiving. 

You’re trying to put your MIL’s son in jail for what? Spending her social security check? You don’t think he’s owed anything for what he does? Does he even have a job, or can he not work because he has to be available to his mom 24/7? You think that’s worth nothing?

You could’ve solved this a million other ways. A caregiver agreement to PAY the man? He could’ve probably gotten paid from the state to take care of her if she qualified for Medicaid with a Medicaid waver. You could’ve taken away his access to her account? You could’ve warned him first, that he was not to do that. Did he really know not to if your MIL said he could? You said he was her favorite. How do you think she’s going to feel now with him out on his ass with no roof over his head? How do you think she’ll feel if they prosecute him? How do you think she’ll feel when she’s lying in a nursing home where no one comes to visit or gives two sh’ts about her?

You sit there on your high horse from 900 miles away, playing God with your own family member’s lives. When’s the last time you actually did any HANDS ON caregiving for your MIL? Do you not understand that sometimes you have to use unorthodox methods to get the job done and still stay sane yourself? Not to mention a caregiver’s own health suffers greatly from caregiving. Sometimes in caregiving, you’re out here flying by the seat of your pants. NObody helps. But boy are they the first ones to tell you that you’re doing it wrong, from 900 miles away.

But the first thing you think to do out of all of the things you could’ve done was to call the cops. In my opinion, you’ve really messed up here. Big time. It was cruel what you did, not only to the BIL, but to the mother in law as well. You’ve now caused yourself more problems too. You really should’ve thought this through.

If you cared so much about your mother in law, why is she not living with you if you think you can do it better than your BIL did? Wait. I already know the answer. It’s a lot easier to point fingers and call cops from 900 miles away than it is to actually DO something to HELP someone. I usually pass up your posts about your poor MIL, feel sorry for her and smh… but this one is just too much.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

No we didn't transfer the title of MILs house to us. We bought the house to put a roof over MIL's head. Yes, we got some benefit from it but MIL would have been homeless if we didn't. 

State will not come in & appoint whomever as her guardian. If anything DH will become her guardian. Before she succumbed to her condition, we asked MIL if she wanted to move. She said no. Change is not good for dementia patients. Plus she'd lived in FL for the last 25 years. To make her come back to the cold northeast away from here doctors would have been the death of her. 

She was living with a BF & the BF was taking care of her. BF is a good guy & still there. He does most of the care giving. 

MIL did not give BIL her ATM card BIL took it out of her wallet without her permission. 

BIL came to us & asked to live in the house. He & his wife have jobs. 

The plan developed by my husband, his sister & this BIL was to spend MILs money for the caregiver that came in 2x per week. They developed that plan together. I pushed them to have a plan but stayed out of what the plan should be. 

I know taking care of a dementia patient is a labor of love. I took care of my mother when she had it. I sacrificed my career for her. I was happy to do it because it was the right thing to do. It probably cost me over $1M & that's OK 

It is not OK for BIL to steal MIL's last funds. 

MIL won't "feel" any way. She doesn't know who he is. She doesn't know today is Sunday. She told the social worker on Friday that she wanted him prosecuted. 

When I originally made this post I didn't know how to help my husband. I am now at peace with the direction things have taken. BIL is out. He will be prosecuted. We will obtain a civil judgment for the wrongful taking. What happens to him is no longer our concern. He's dead to us & that is just fine. What he did was unforgivable.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> DH & I own a house. MIL lives in it. She has dementia & can't live alone. We're about 900 miles away. There is no $$ to put her in a nursing home.
> 
> BIL & his wife moved in over the summer. They are supposed to be caring for her. They live there rent free in exchange for caring for mom. We just found out they have drained her bank account -- over $8,500. Mom now has no money to pay doctor / medical bills / co-pays or for her prescriptions. We can cover one month & she's get a new Social Security check next month. We are cutting off BIL's access to the account.
> 
> ...


I think you should have him arrested or file civil suit. There is so much theft associated with people caring for elders. It's disgusting. Police might just tell you it's a civil matter, but you can at least ask them. Some big cities have special departments and will deal with certain things that smaller police departments won't.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> I don't think we can make the charges stick. Under Florida law the infirm / elderly person has to be the one pressing the charges.



Contact the bank and let them know what happened. They can help you work through this and they may be able to involve the authorities. It's a long shot, but mention the words "Elder Abuse." They have to take is seriously at that point. You may not be able to get all the money back, but you can make the account way more secure going forward. Like, first thing I'd do is get it set up so any transaction over $0.01 sends you a text notification.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

I said what I said because you at first said:



> We are cutting off BIL's access to the account.


I figured it was like say… well, my younger brother. He’s my moms favorite. She’d give him every dime gladly for anything he wanted or needed. Especially if he was taking care of her. I figured it was the same with your BIL, because you said he had access to the account.

But in your last post you said,



D0nnivain said:


> MIL did not give BIL her ATM card BIL took it out of her wallet without her permission.


So, yes. That does fit the definition of stealing.

I apologize.

It’a a tough situation taking care of a person with dementia, as you know from doing it for your mom. There are people who mean well, and people who take advantage. It does sound like your BIL took advantage.

I still think there could’ve been some other way to deal with this, instead of calling the cops and bringing charges. Now it’s a big mess. You say you’ll have to get guardianship like it’s a simple non costly thing. I think it’s sad that your BIL is “dead to you”, and that you think your MIL doesn’t “feel anything”. She most definitely has feelings, regardless if she knows what day of the week it is or not. 

So what’s your plan for her now? Nursing home? Is it going to be 900 miles away from you or would you move her closer to you?

I know that you care about your MIL, but sometimes hands on help beats sitting somewhere miles away telling other people how they’re doing it wrong. This is common in these situations.

If you’re at peace with how it went, then that’s that, I guess. Good luck with it. It doesn’t get any easier.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

@C.C. says ... 

I don't know what the next steps are. The decision has to be made by my husband & his sister. I suspect they will chose to let MIL live with the BF until that doesn't work any more. She's not my mother so I can't really force my will on the situation. 

She has dementia but no other health issues. She doesn't need a nursing home. She needs an assisted living facility. She could probably be managed with a day program but since Covid most of them were shut down & have not reopened. We found one but it's too far away. 

There is no money for a nursing home. SIL is broke. For us to pay would impoverish us & guarantee there would be no money for our long term needs when we got older. Since we don't have kids & no one to advocate for us, that is not a realistic option. 

MIL is not yet on Medicaid. There is a case on the US Supreme Court docket this term _Heath & Hosp. Corp or Marion County v. Tavelski _which has to do with how and if Medicaid will continue to be funded. IMO the 6 heartless morons who make up the conservative majority of the Court will use that case to gut Medicaid. I also suspect that the DeSantis administration knew the case was coming down the pike & have slow walked all new applications including MIL's so she would not be on the roll's when the decision came down. I obviously have no proof of that but it's my opinion based on what I have observed. 

So I don't know what will happen next. IMO my SIL needs to step up & take the lead on caring for her mom but she won't. Until 2016 when I laid out MIL's financial condition for her, SIL (at 40 years old, with a college education & her own failing business) had been continuously asking her mother for money.

We just found out that BIL & SIL didn't pay the last 3 utility bills & now the power was to be shut off next week so we have to cough up the money to prevent that from happening. We're getting the utilities switched back to MIL's name & applying for the various low income assistance programs to help with those bills. It would have been fraud to use those programs when BIL & SIL were living in the house because their individual incomes exceed the caps; combined there is no reason for them to have been so impoverished as to help themselves to MILs money. If they had used the money to pay bills I could have found it in my heart to excuse that. If they asked we would have found a way to help but to be sneaky & steal is unforgivable.

BIL will be evicted & prosecuted. The bank is helping. BIL will also be sued civilly. We'll never get the $$ back but his credit rating will be ruined & his name will be mud.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

My dad lived out in the country where there wasn't very much law and only a sheriff. A guy he sold a trailer to that lived close in the neighborhood was riding chicks to himself on my dad's checks, several thousand dollars. He was having my dad sign the checks and pretending to be helping with his bill paying. and there was a woman also writing checks but they were much smaller. There are just some real predators out there with the elderly.

The sheriff told me he would really like to get that guy but that my dad just wouldn't make a good witness. Because my dad did have dementia and alcoholism. So you could run into something like that. We had to get my dad declared incompetent before that even happened. I doubt he would have witnessed against him anyway because my dad doesn't like to have anything to do with the law. 

I'm sure every municipality is different what they will or not do sure hope someone takes care of this for you. I know the frustration.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> We just found out that BIL & SIL didn't pay the last 3 utility bills & now the power was to be shut off next week so we have to cough up the money to prevent that from happening.


Ugh. 🤦🏻‍♀️ Yea, that’s bad. Are they on drugs? What were they doing with all the money to not even pay the utility bills? Her money, and their own as well. So they’re still there at the moment. I wonder what they’re going to do when they get that eviction notice. I hope it all goes alright. I was seeing it one way, and it’s pretty clear that it was another. Wowwwww. 😔

They really messed up what could’ve been a beneficial thing to all involved. I’m sorry it went like that. It seems pretty common in families that one person ends up doing all the work, or making all the plans and decisions, while the other siblings sit back and let them. Seems like you’re that person, even though she’s not even your mom. It’s not fair, I know. Not that you’re obligated to do so, but at least the MIL has you to do what you can.

I don’t even _think (?) _Medicaid pays for assisted living. Nursing home, yes. That would be a pretty high bill. Hopefully she can stay with the boyfriend and he can help her for awhile, until it can be figured out.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Medicaid does pay for assisted living when it's medically necessary, defined as the person needs help wit activities of daily living, which she does. 

I think I found a lawyer to deal with the eviction. Since they haven't done anything so far, I suspect they will force this to the bitter end but eventually crawl away with their tails between their legs. I will continue try to get the new accommodations in Hotel Grey Bar.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> Medicaid does pay for assisted living when it's medically necessary, defined as the person needs help wit activities of daily living, which she does.
> 
> I think I found a lawyer to deal with the eviction. Since they haven't done anything so far, I suspect they will force this to the bitter end but eventually crawl away with their tails between their legs. I will continue try to get the new accommodations in Hotel Grey Bar.


I just hope you get some of that money back.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I just hope you get some of that money back.


Never gonna happen. They have too many creditors ahead of us. All I'm hoping for is to be able to docket a judgment to F up every future deal they try to do. . . they won't be able to get a mortgage, rent an apartment, get a credit card, borrow money for a new car etc. 

BIL spent 1.5 hours last night / early morning drunk texting poor DH, hinting that he might kill himself. I'm just happy that the texts contained admissions that he did it. Will make it easier to prosecute. Then he'll have some place to live: prison


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> Never gonna happen. They have too many creditors ahead of us. All I'm hoping for is to be able to docket a judgment to F up every future deal they try to do. . . they won't be able to get a mortgage, rent an apartment, get a credit card, borrow money for a new car etc.
> 
> BIL spent 1.5 hours last night / early morning drunk texting poor DH, hinting that he might kill himself. I'm just happy that the texts contained admissions that he did it. Will make it easier to prosecute. Then he'll have some place to live: prison


I don't know, can the creditors really get that ill gain the money from him when it clearly was stolen from someone else? Seems like it would need to be returned to whoever belonged to.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't know, can the creditors really get that ill gain the money from him when it clearly was stolen from someone else? Seems like it would need to be returned to whoever belonged to.


He already spent the money. He took cash out of the ATM using the card & also used the card like a credit card to pay for purchases at bars. 

My point was that once the judgment for the unpaid money is docketed, the outstanding judgment will show up on a credit check. Any future lender who sees that will decline to extend new credit until the outstanding debt is cleared up. With something like a mortgage sometimes the bank will add the amount of the judgment to the loan & pay it back so that no other creditor has a superior in time position to to the bank.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Bad things happen to good people. It's just such a shame.


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