# New to the Forum - Have a dilemma



## BrokenNotAlone (Jun 6, 2015)

Hi Everyone! I've been pouring though posts the past few days after finding this website and this really seems like the supportive community that I was looking for. 

I apologize for the long winded post. If anyone is brave enough to read through all of this, first of all thank you, second of all please don't pull any punches. At this point I have zero people I can talk to, and I have a habit of coloring my thoughts and reactions negatively and in the least confident manner as possible. I really need some objective advice here as I'm not sure exactly what I should do.

I'm 35, male, married my high school sweetheart (between dating and marriage we've been together for 19 years) and we have a beautiful nearly 3 year old daughter. My wife and I are well educated and very private people so writing this post is very difficult for me. Its also worth noting that I suffered from severe depression from early childhood on into my late 20's.

Growing up I was taught that porn was a right of passage, something you consumed as a man because your wife wont do those things you so desperately what to do with the models in the mags. 

My wife, and currently I, have an issue with porn, a well researched and documented stance about the ill effects caused by porn. One that she made very clear to me early on that consumption of porn on my part would lead to the end of our relationship. 

Despite my upbringing I tried to stay off the porn for the sake of my relationship, but as time went on and the ebb and flows of intimacy took hold I started down the dark path of porn. 

After 8 years of dating I finally asked my wife to marry me. She said yes but had no idea i'd been consuming porn all that time. To boot, my severe depression was at its peak at this time. 

Thankfully I started going to therapy and got on some meds and started to straighten my life out. I began to address my past with my parents and I created a plan to tell my wife about the porn and the grip it had on me. I didn't want to go into a marriage with this giant lie attached to it. I wanted to be truthful with her and whatever happens happens. 

It came at no surprise when she took the news as though I'd been having an affair for so many years. For nearly a year I saw this brilliant, loving, and wonderful woman turn into a cold, callous, hurt shell of a woman at the hands of my indiscretions. I had given up porn and dedicated my time to her and eventually the fog lifted and our relationship started to rebuild. There were numerous times things would be great and then out of nowhere she'd toss her engagement ring at me and tell me it was over. That went on for nearly a year. We both stuck with it though and got married.

The beginnings of our marriage were good but stressed by my job. I had to travel a lot and put in a ton of hours. We are planners, get through college, get married, stabilize our finances and then have kids. Well to stabilize finances you have to work. So...you can see where that is going. She started resenting my job so there was a lot of tension there. I would back off on work but eventually it would start coming back and the friction would increase then I would back off again and the cycle would continue.

Our sex life was only really good in the beginning of our relationship before marriage. She started taking the pill and her libido took a nose dive to nada. We still had sex but it was much less frequent. When I confessed my other life to my wife sex came to a halt for nearly a year. There was a very frustrating rediscovery period and then some level of normalcy. Maybe once a month or so. Finally about 5 years into the marriage I told her that I wasn't happy with our intimacy level. Everything else was great but that I really needed more. Instead of talking this out she shut me out. After a few days she agreed to have more sex. Time went on and we started talking about having kids, but not having more sex. Over a period of a few months we stopped taking birth control and she did a 180. It took us a good 9 months to finally get pregnant but during that time we had a ton of sex and even after she got pregnant we still had a lot of good sex. Our relationship was the strongest its ever been and it was the happiest either of us have ever been. Fast forward to post pregnancy and now she's back on the pill. The progression has gone in the past 3 years from sex once in awhile, meaning every other month or so, to now not having sex in over a year. 

In the past 2 years I've changed jobs. Now I rarely ever travel and never talk about work. I have the flexibility to work remotely and don't typically put in more than 40 a week. I bend over backward to help out in all house and work related matters, cook, clean, house maintenance, the list goes on. 

In the past year our relationship has suffered a ton. She used to be super affectionate, even suffocating at times. But now she wont even touch me, even for an embrace or a simple reassuring hand on my shoulder. She doesn't say she loves me unless I say it first. We spend zero time together. If we are in the same room its almost like she panics and is looking for an out. She for the most part actively ignores me now, doesn't answer me when I ask her questions, hardly responds to texts or emails or phone calls during the day. She is always glued to her cell phone despite the fact that her main point of contention with me and work was my cell phone, I've since stopped keeping it at my side at home. 

Last weekend my sister in law took our daughter out for a dinner date and to go hang out so my wife and I were left at home alone. I thought wow what a great opportunity to spend some time together. The second she had the chance, without a word, she ran upstairs got changed into work clothes and started cleaning the bathroom. 

After about 30 min of cleaning she said she was hungry so we decided to go out to eat. By her choosing she wanted to go to this expensive get dressed up place by our house. I thought it was odd but I took the bait and got gussied up since that's not something we've done in well over 2 years together. We get to the restaurant and after 20 min of awkward conversation and empty silences she drops a bomb on me that she might get laid off at work and wanted to know how secure my job was and if there was anything I could do to make more money. I kindly reminded her that I took my current job, at a pay increase actually, to cut back on hours to strengthen our marriage and so that I would not be an absent father to our daughter. She responded that she would like it if I could make more money but not if it meant being gone all the time. so with that out of the way we had a pretty nice dinner. Conversation wasn't awesome but much better than it had been in months. Dinner finished and we went home and went our separate ways, however I left feeling a little lighter in my step. I thought this was an improvement and maybe a step in a better direction.

A few days after our "date" I was feeling really down in the dumps. My brother passed away 7 years ago and the anniversary is coming up so I was reminiscing and I really needed a shoulder, not to cry on but I needed an embrace something that would say its okay. Based on the dinner we had and her happier demeanor the few days in between I decided to put myself out there. I tried to simply give her a hug. Now in the past year we have hugged once and thats it. Other than that no physical contact at all. What I felt was anything but reassured. Her body tensed up, she let me hug her but there was nothing on the other side. In fact she started to pull away midway through. I really can't take any more rejection at this point. 

Now I expected a little of this but not on this level. I assumed that after having a child that some of that love and affection would be transferred to our baby, but not all of it. I also understand a need of having ownership of your own body. As a mother you don't really have that. You give your mind body emotions, everything over to your child. and so I tried to give her both space and time. Now I dont know what to do. I feel like she has given up entirely on our marriage. I know I need to ask her whats going on but really I'm afraid she is going to say she is done with us. She is an always has been the type of person that simply decides what she is going to do and thats it. No consulting, no conversation, just decides and does. Having a child I don't know what the right course of action here is. Do I confront my wife and ask her what the deal is knowing that the answer I get may be one that cant be taken back or do I let it be and hope for the best so that I dont have to alter my life with my child?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hello, BrokenNotAlone

Good for you seeking out help to improve yourself and your relationship. 

Dealing with your personal problems first is the correct step, since you only have control over your own behaviors. 

Did you explore Deejo's sticky thread at the top of this forum yet? Exploring the threads and resources there can give you some different insights, into why your fear keeps her in control of your happiness. 

Ask yourself "Why is it that she has this control over whether you're happy in the relationship?" 

Hint... "She is an always has been the type of person that simply decides what she is going to do and that's it. No consulting, no conversation, just decides and does." 

Have you considered MC before these dysfunctional behaviors end your marriage? 

Best


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Good odds she is having an affair.

Probably a coworker or someone she met through work.

She might want to work on your marriage but doesn't want to confess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tenac (Jun 3, 2015)

BrokenNotAlone said:


> She responded that she would like it if I could make more money but not if it meant being gone all the time.


She doesn't want you gone all the time. Maybe that's a good sign?

Then again maybe she wants you to babysit while she's out with some other guy.


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## BrokenNotAlone (Jun 6, 2015)

MC is not an option. Not something she is willing to do. ive suggested it in the past

I don't really think she's having an affair. She's really not the kind of person that would do that. Also if she is not at work then she is at home. Neither of us go out at all, together or alone, or with friends. Our life is pretty much work and our kid. 

At night she typically reads or does work. I typically will work or will read. Not a lot of time or opportunity for an affair. I mentioned she is on her phone a lot. It's mainly with her sister who also has a less than desirable marriage. She has zero respect for her husband and treats him like garbage also. 

I guess what I'm really looking for is some perspective as to what she might be going through.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

First and foremost, based on your post I don't see any signs that she is betraying you. Don't start getting paranoid about that.

Second, I have lived with someone who suffered from fairly severe depression. I would suggest seeing a personal counselor who specializes in depression and also double check your meds. 

Third, to many women, men who use porn are in fact betraying them- and I have to say from their perspective I would agree. It is the ultimate blow/rejection that you chose cyber women over her- which you did (and I don't want to hear an excuse of being depressed- you made a choice to do porn). 

So all of this added up makes me think it would be natural for her to reject you as you have rejected her. I would also think it normal for her to not want to have a lot if affection between the two of you. To her credit she stayed in the marriage. That may have been a mistake, but she did so anyway.

Since you want it right between the eyes, here it is...

You have screwed up terribly and totally let your wife down from day 1. To your credit you seem to have made a fair attempt to turn things around, but some things you cannot repair. That's the way it is. 

My best advice is to sit her down and tell her you truest feelings for her, note her lack of return affections and just ask her what can be done to make a better marriage from her perspective or consider ending it. Clearly, neither of you are happy and this will transfer to your child. You messed up, so take your medicine like a man. But who knows, maybe things will turn around. 

As an ancillary note, do you two attend church? Some churches offer some good counseling for issues like this (and some offer poor counseling, but ...).


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## BrokenNotAlone (Jun 6, 2015)

Thank you for the honesty. Exactly what I needed. I re-wrote my initial post at least a dozen times before sending it off. Basically you just have the long winded highlights there. I originally had some background on our childhoods and such which would have clarified some things but felt they were too personal to post. 

Yes I messed up, no I don't make excuses for it. However we've been together since we were kids and this was something I did as a kid. It's been years since I've ventured into that world so although it's possible that her rejection as of late is related it feels however on my side unrelated. 

My depression has since left me about 7 years ago. For the most part I'm a positive upbeat person now. I haven't been on any meds for about 10 years now. 

We belong to a church but don't regularly attend. We are spiritual people but not particularly religious.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

BrokenNotAlone said:


> MC is not an option. Not something she is willing to do. ive suggested it in the past
> 
> *Why? She is afraid on losing control in MC?*
> 
> ...


Look at these men described in these books. There you will see how their partners have lost respect for them. It may give you insight as to why she built this resentment and how to regain that respect.

No More Mr Nice Guy

Boundaries in Marriage


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## BrokenNotAlone (Jun 6, 2015)

So the one thing I haven't seen in your replies is that it's over. I understand that dosent mean that it isn't but at least it's comforting that it sounds like theirs hope. I'll take a look at the books.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I would take a look at this, too. You may not quite be there yet, but it could help you understand what she may be feeling, and where things could end up.

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife

"Sadly, most husbands have few memories of “hurting” their wives. But let all such men consider – if a woman does something as extreme as leave her mate, claiming she can no longer handle the emotional pain, isn’t it likely she is, in fact, in pain? (If emotional feelings could bleed, a man would see a trail of blood following his wife as she leaves him.) The truth is that a hardened woman only got that way because her feelings got hurt over and over. 

Herein lies the problem – most women believe that they have communicated their hurt to their husbands, but most husbands only have memories of their wife’s bad attitudes. All those times a wife thought she was simply expressing the cry of an injured heart, her husband only perceived hostility, coldness, or hatred. She felt like she was begging for tenderness and sensitivity, and he backed away because he thought he was being attacked. 

My experience is that most women leave their husbands, because they entered marriage with expectations of feeling cherished and secure, and their husbands unwittingly have sent the message that they are not. Hence, those women end up feeling defrauded, then often bitter and hardened.

The man who hopes to reconcile with a wounded wife must first realize that for her to return to him will require that she trust and forgive him. Such a wife may be consumed by bitterness, but rather than concentrate on what his wife is doing wrong, it is better that an abandoned husband think about what he must do facilitate the softening of her heart to help her forgive and trust him."


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

BrokenNotAlone said:


> So the one thing I haven't seen in your replies is that it's over. I understand that dosent mean that it isn't but at least it's comforting that it sounds like theirs hope. I'll take a look at the books.


No one can tell you if your marriage can be saved or not. I can tell you that you can be the best man, partner, and father you can be, and if she wants to join you in that, it's her choice or her loss. Do you understand that?

Others will be along with ideas too. It's slow on the weekends. Take this time to read up on the concepts till then. 

Another short reading... A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


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## BrokenNotAlone (Jun 6, 2015)

Sincerely thank you for the replies. I'm going to digest this a bit more and read through your suggestions.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Didn't mean to go in the wrong direction but she is exhibiting several red flags for infidelity.

The marriage is dead and has been for a long time however.

If she isn't made to understand she has a part to play in making it work then you should call it quits.

You can't take all the responsibility for this train wreck. You didn't stop a porn habit from childhood. That was wrong but not nuclear.

You have worked to clean up your end of things and she has continued in marriage destroying behavior.

Wake her up. Several good books have been mentioned already and I agree that you should read them.

Continuing as long as you have in this farce speaks of saintly patience or desperation.

Her unwillingness to work to save her dead marriage is not a promising sign.

She has responsibility in the state of your marriage and she needs to open up and work or set you free.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

BrokenNotAlone said:


> ...I don't really think she's having an affair. She's really not the kind of person that would do that....


This above may be the only mistake that you make, and it is fatal. Defending your marriage means that you be vigilant 24/7/365. You will do anything to defend and protect it.

If I turned out to be wrong, then it is good for you!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Broken,

First, about the porn: Consuming porn is by no means the universal evil that your wife and BPGuy see it to be. There are wide differences of opinion about this. Still, your fiancé made it clear that this was a deal-breaker and you lied about it, so that’s not good. However, you changed your ways and confessed prior to marriage and she still agreed to get married. At that point, she’s either forgiven or come to terms with the porn use. If she couldn’t get over it then she shouldn’t have married you. But, she did, so that is in the past. There is no reason for her (or you) to continue to use it as a cudgel to beat you with.

Now that we’re past that, you are in a standard low/no sex marriage and all the usual rules apply. If she does indeed lose her job and she doesn’t find a new one (or look for one) you will be in an even worse position.

You’ve already discovered that doing more of what she says she wants (less work, less phone use, more time around the house) will have no effect on her affection for you.

The only hope for improvement is to let your wife know that the status quo is unacceptable and that you have absolutely no intention of putting up with it for the rest of your life. Then, do everything you can to be the man and husband that you want to be (work out, get involved in hobbies, stop being a doormat, etc). I’m guessing that you are all about meeting (or trying to meet) her needs. If so, deprioritize her needs and elevate your own.

It has been mentioned that no low-sex marriage has been improved without the husband being willing to put the marriage at risk. That’s usually the only way they can get their point across. If you’re prepared to do that, read on, TAM can definitely help you. If you’re not willing to put the marriage at risk, expect to be here (on TAM) whining that nothing is getting better for the next 10 years or so.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Good odds she is having an affair.
> 
> Probably a coworker or someone she met through work.
> 
> ...


I see red flags too. 

Always tied to the phone but rarely responds to hubby? She's communicating with someone. 

Lack of sex, but ALSO lack of normal affectionate behavior. Fleeing the room, etc.

Dress up for expensive meal out of nowhere? Buttering you up before dropping bomb. I would think there is more to this "might get laid off". Entirely possible there is something going on at work and it has ended, or she does want to cut it off and work on marriage without confessing. 

The pattern does open possibility of bad reaction to the birth control she's on, too. Certainly no expert, but could be a chemical/hormonal adverse effect decreasing her drive.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

I am not big into porn. I could take it or leave it. Having said that, this poor guy has been subjected to weeks and months at a time with no sex or affection from his wife. Now me personally, I'd tell the wife that it is her duty as a wife to have sex with me and if she didn't, I'd leave in a NY second. Actually, IMO if you're at that point, the marriage is probably already over. If one was inclined not to take a hard line, I could see how many men would turn to porn.

I just don't think this guy needs to be beaten up so badly when one could argue that his wife certainly didn't do anything, in fact nothing at all, to help. It takes two to screw up a marriage.

I believe it IS the responsibility of both partners to fulfill one another sexually and intimately. The unwillingness to do that, by either party, will create actions and circumstances that will only accelerate the total demise of the marriage.


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## BrokenNotAlone (Jun 6, 2015)

Been awhile since I've posted. One of the biggest issues in our relationship has been that fact that I've been a complete beta. My step father was such an ass growing up, someone I considered an alpha. So I went in the opposite direction. did all I could to not become him. Which of course resulted in my Beta status. My wife is extremely independent, super smart and very much an alpha in her own right. Some things happened recently, not with our relationship, and to put it bluntly I grew a pair. I'm trying to walk the line of being more of an alpha without turning into an ass and as a result she seems to be coming around. For the past 6 weeks or so shes been very nice to me. The same intimacy issues still apply though. we sleep separately, no physical contact. I've tried reaching out in small steps but I want to give this new me some time to sink in. I'm thinking in maybe a few months when our relationship is strong enough I'll have a sit down with her and clear this up. and just to clear the air on the deal with her being on her phone I'm 99% certain its been a simple escape. just a way to remove herself from having to sit uncomfortably near me. If the past few weeks have been any indicator she has been less reliant on this device.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

BrokenNotAlone said:


> Been awhile since I've posted. One of the biggest issues in our relationship has been that fact that I've been a complete beta. My step father was such an ass growing up, someone I considered an alpha. So I went in the opposite direction. did all I could to not become him. Which of course resulted in my Beta status. My wife is extremely independent, super smart and very much an alpha in her own right. Some things happened recently, not with our relationship, and to put it bluntly I grew a pair. I'm trying to walk the line of being more of an alpha without turning into an ass and as a result she seems to be coming around. For the past 6 weeks or so shes been very nice to me. The same intimacy issues still apply though. we sleep separately, no physical contact. I've tried reaching out in small steps but I want to give this new me some time to sink in. I'm thinking in maybe a few months when our relationship is strong enough I'll have a sit down with her and clear this up. and just to clear the air on the deal with her being on her phone I'm 99% certain its been a simple escape. just a way to remove herself from having to sit uncomfortably near me. If the past few weeks have been any indicator she has been less reliant on this device.



It's a shame that you have equated being an Alpha with being an ass because the two are not the same thing. An Alpha, IMO, is someone who has clear intentions, principles and boundaries and enforces them.

For example, I think an Alpha male would tell his wife what he wants or needs from the relationship, what he expects from the relationship and what the consequences will be if she doesn't make an effort to comply. Frequency of sex being more than half a dozen times a year for example.

I believe women respect and respond to a strong man. You have to make your desires known and you have to be willing to walk away if your needs aren't being met. I'm no expert on all this Greek terminology but it seems to me that this approach will be better than what you had been doing to this point. It's too bad Machiavelli isn't here to chime in as he seemed to love throwing all these terms around.

It sounds like you're on the right path. Remember, you have nothing to lose by becoming more Alpha because being Beta clearly isn't working for you.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Alpha does not equal ******* if done right
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenNotAlone (Jun 6, 2015)

Exactly...Now that I'm getting the whole picture about being an Alpha I'm letting myself settle into my myself, if that makes sense. It was a eureka moment when I realized I could be the man I wanted to be without being a ****.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

BrokenNotAlone said:


> Exactly...Now that I'm getting the whole picture about being an Alpha I'm letting myself settle into my myself, if that makes sense. It was a eureka moment when I realized I could be the man I wanted to be without being a ****.


I'm naturally mostly beta. Working on increasing alpha for balance. When I'm an a$$ I'm just being an a$$. A and b don't apply.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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