# Are the ANY acceptable lies after EA?



## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

That's pretty much all i'm wondering. 

Background: Wife had an EA with an old college boyfriend. In addition she had been e-mailing another ex (he dumped her). She said those e-mails were sent 2-3 times a year and they were mostly to get closure. They had a messy breakup and she wanted to know if he was sorry. I found all this out last March.

Last week she told me she had talked on the computer with an old college friend. It was all friendly, platonic as she put it. I was pissed off because why would it be kept secret if it were platonic?

Basically now i'm trying to understand where we're at. I'm still pretty confused and emotional regarding the EA and any other contact with different men I wasn't aware of. 

In addition a few weeks back I caught her in a pretty dumb lie. Let me explain. In MC one of the things my wife brought up was that we didn't have a lot of couple friends and we didn't go out much with other couples. At the time I felt she was blame shifting and using this as another excuse to rationalize what she did. Not that the therapist ever called her out on this but whatever. I mentioned at the time that the reason for not having more couple friends was that we're always hanging out with her family. 

Well, fast forward to 8 months later and I had a couple we're friends with (he's my friend and his new girl friend) coming over for Superbowl. Then like the day before she tells me if it was OK for her dad to come over. I was annoyed and told her that we're finally doing something with a couple and there was no need to involve her family. That it was OK for us to NOT include her family in everything we do. She told me, very deffensively that it was just a bad idea and that she got it and I didn't need to go into detail explaining why her dad couldn't come over. So that night I check her phone and I notice a disconnect in the thread of messages between her and her mother. Basically one text that day saying it was just a couples thing and then another text like 2 days before that.

My questions is, why would you continue to lie about something so insignificant? Basically is this an acceptable lie or does this mean that she STILL does not get it?


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Either she didn't realize she lied (possible) or she doesn't get it (also possible). Either way, if this is only about texts between her and her mother, really not a big deal. Just keep your eyes open...


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

In marriage there is no privacy. There are no secrets. No lie is acceptable ever!

From marriageguilders.com


In good marriages, couples become so interdependent that sharing a daily schedule is essential to their coordination of activities. But in weak marriages, couples are reluctant to provide their schedules, because they are often engaged in an assortment of Love Busters. They may know that their spouses would object to their activities, so they tell themselves, What they don't know won't hurt them. They have what I call a "secret second life."

But there are many who really have nothing to hide; yet they feel the need for privacy. They are offended when their spouse asks where they've been or what they've done. They feel that their spouse should trust them, and not assume the worst.

I'm dead-set against privacy in marriage, because it creates an unnecessary barrier to problem solving. When you and your spouse married, two became one. That means that prior to marriage, you had no one but yourself to consider when you made choices, and now you have each other to consider. There should be no part of your life that is off limits to your spouse, because literally everything that either of you do will ultimately affect each other. Privacy breeds incompatibility because it represents a part of your life that is off limits to accommodation.

Even when activities are innocent, it's extremely important for your spouse to understand what you do with your time. Be easy to check up on and find in an emergency. Give each other your daily schedules so you can communicate about how you spend your time. Since almost every thing you do will affect your spouse, it is important to explain what it is you do.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Either she didn't realize she lied (possible) or she doesn't get it (also possible). Either way, if this is only about texts between her and her mother, really not a big deal. Just keep your eyes open...


She definitely realized she lied. I asked her about it the next day and she told me she didn't want to get into an argument about it since she knew I would say something about her family.

I have several questions in my head about what's the point of this? I mean if you find the NEED to lie about something so little and really insignificant then why not lie about something bigger (i.e. affair)? My point of view is that once you lie about smaller things, those same smaller things become larger and larger lies and then before you know it you are in such a habit of lying that you lie about anything and everything. 

No ones first lie in a marriage is the affair. There is a progression to a lie of that magnitude.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

In addition this lie really made me trigger big time last week.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

are there any acceptable lies between a husband and wife-ever?

Surprise parties, gifts are the only thing that comes to mind


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> In addition this lie really made me trigger big time last week.


In that case, then I guess you need to review your boundaries...I do feel the same way as you, I was just trying to see if your wife intentionally lied, or if she just forgot to mention the texts with mom, since she may have thought it insignificant.

My husband is a bit of a liar-liar-pants-on-fire himself; it took him many goes to actually GET it. I still don't know if he REALLY gets it, I guess I will just have to wait and see if he ever lies again. So far, it's been quite a long time since I've caught him in a lie. :smthumbup:

Triggering is awful; it always sneaks up on you! Tell your wife that you were triggered, and that it was HER fault. I triggered too, but it was because of a stupid dream. Sucks either way!


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Presents, surprises and funny lies like "Your butt looks smaller in those pants!" I know I'm being lied to, I asked for it and I don't wanna hear the truth. LOL, my husband bought ME a new drill last week! Those aren't lies even though they are. We both know they are deliberate and it's a thing between him and we that we enjoy doing. 
Our local Walmart gives away a free box of donuts but only on days when my husband does the shopping.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Are the ANY acceptable lies after EA?


No. 

Not if your _genuinely_ reconciling. 

You are not on the path you want to be on. Road signs on the journey don't get any more clear than that.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No.
> 
> Not if your _genuinely_ reconciling.
> 
> You are not on the path you want to be on. Road signs on the journey don't get any more clear than that.


So how can I get on the right path? The therapist is useless basically. She has not and doesn't really address what seems to be constant lying in the relationship.

Any advise? Besides getting a new therapist.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

What are the odds that someone who had a year long EA which ended after not getting a response anymore from the OM didn't have any other EAs or PAs? 

My point being if my wife e-mailed her ex for 5 years (2-3 times a year) for what she calls closure on their relationship (messy break up). Then had an EA with another ex which ended after 1 year because the OM stopped e-mailing her. What would be the odds that there was no one else? I believe that based on her moral history there must have been something else right? 

I find it difficult to believe that you would have an EA for a year and then not have anything else for 3 years. Seems to be if you were unhappy in the relationship 3 years before that wouldn't those same negative feelings still carry over?


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## asylumspadez (Jan 17, 2012)

I would seriously question how bad she wants to be with you if she is constantly lying to you about the smallest things. Try calling her out on it, Confront her and see how she reacts to being called a liar (which she is). Keep grilling her about why she feels the need to lie all the time and dont stop till you get an answer that satisfys you.

Also make it clear to her, If she lies again then you are done. You are trying to save your relationship and in order to do that she needs to be a lot more open to you and a lot more truthful as well. Also, I think her EA was far then an EA and her constant lying about things (no matter how small) doesnt help her case either.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

asylumspadez said:


> I would seriously question how bad she wants to be with you if she is constantly lying to you about the smallest things. Try calling her out on it, Confront her and see how she reacts to being called a liar (which she is). Keep grilling her about why she feels the need to lie all the time and dont stop till you get an answer that satisfys you.
> 
> Also make it clear to her, If she lies again then you are done. You are trying to save your relationship and in order to do that she needs to be a lot more open to you and a lot more truthful as well. Also, I think her EA was far then an EA and her constant lying about things (no matter how small) doesnt help her case either.


Asylumspadez, what do you mean by "EA was far then an EA and her constant lying about things (no matter how small) doesnt help her case either."?


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

lying is not Acceptable between a husband and wife. (I know other have already said that) 

Have you tried just calling her out when she lies? I would have right in the middle of MC called her out. If the MC is not going to you should right then and there. MC would be a great place to do this because there is a third party there that can guid you through the fall out.
I really think you should call her on her lies to you right on the spot. Otherwise you are just letting her get away with it.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Kurosity said:


> lying is not Acceptable between a husband and wife. (I know other have already said that)
> 
> Have you tried just calling her out when she lies? I would have right in the middle of MC called her out. If the MC is not going to you should right then and there. MC would be a great place to do this because there is a third party there that can guid you through the fall out.
> I really think you should call her on her lies to you right on the spot. Otherwise you are just letting her get away with it.


Kuriosity, I actually called her out on it the following day. Unfortunately it made me trigger big time. It became more about how I was feeling regarding the entire problem instead of making the point that it was a stupid thing to lie about. 

Whenever I call her out on lying she automatically gets defensive and starts to blame shift. Has been like that for a while now since DDay. Regarding the MC I personally think she sucks. I leave there more frustrated than when I came in. The last few times I was so pissed off I had no problem voicing that I was disgusted a the fact that my wife is never asked to take responsibility for what she did. The therapists response is to book another session right away. To which I responded that I felt like a check walking in the door instead of a person who came for therapy.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> So how can I get on the right path? The therapist is useless basically. She has not and doesn't really address what seems to be constant lying in the relationship.
> 
> Any advise? Besides getting a new therapist.


Just some random thoughts...

First of all it takes 2. Your obviously willing, is she willing in more than just concept? As of now, I don't think so. 

Kind of a broad observation...But... She doesn't "get it" or worse, she does and you don't have her "buy in" to build the kind of marriage you envision. 

I can't speak intelligently about your whole situation as Im not intimately familiar with it... So outlining a roadmap would be tough..

Something that popped in my head...

Kind of a question for you to contemplate.. Envision your marriage as a structure, a home... Do think you guys are trying to rebuild a marriage on an existing foundation?, (one that you know had big cracks) or do you think you and your wife 'broke new ground' and this reconcilation is being built together from the ground up. a 'fresh start' if you will ? 

One of those two will work, with hard work one of them will give you both a safe place to call home for the rest of your lives.. The other will also be hard work, and it will give you both "a place to stay" maybe for a long while... who knows? but it will always be a little dangerous and no doubt someday it will crumble and need to be condemned....


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I would look for a new MC right away then. I personally think people spend more time looking for the right cell phone or car then they do for an MC. 

I really wish I could offer more help and have the answers you need. 

I know for me that I use to be a blame shifter because I have an issue with pride and once I got over my self things were a little easier to admitt to. I still struggle with it but each time it comes up I am learning to say, "Yes that is my fault and I am sorry. What can I do to fix this or make amends." again that is very difficult for me to do still. It is that facing one's self that is the hardest to do. 

Is she in IC? That may be helpful for this sistuation. Best Wishes to you and your wife.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Kurosity said:


> I would look for a new MC right away then. I personally think people spend more time looking for the right cell phone or car then they do for an MC.
> 
> I really wish I could offer more help and have the answers you need.
> 
> ...


Kuriosity, yes she is in IC. She went after I strongly suggested it soon after DDay. I was under the impression that she was going to work on HER problems. Basically because that's WHY I suggested IC for her but I came to find out recently during an argument that she speaks more in IC about the dynamics of our relationship than why she did what she did. :scratchhead:

When it comes to our therapy I feel that she uses it more to point out my short comings rather than taking responsibility for her own. I find this extremely frustrating. I'm sure that her having a degree in psychology surely helps her understand more what the therapist is trying to get to at times and it's pretty obvious she has beaten me to the punch. 

I feel like saying that she's obviously selfish but I guess someone who acts for their own personal satisfaction so often it would be stating the obvious.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

If she has a degree in psychology ask her what repeated deception does to a relationship? As her how emotionally investing in another person outside the marriage is acceptable and doesn't cause damage to the relationship? Ask her if she has extreme narcissistic tendencies and why isn't that being addressed in her IC? Ask her these questions in your next MC session and do not accept anything less than an answer to your questions. If she or the therapist try to change to another topic hold your ground. Tell the therapist that you are the one that was betrayed and you need answers if you are to avoid divorcing her. Marriage counselors are like doctors. They may have oodles of knowledge but only you know what you feel. In the end you are in charge of your own health care. Just like in the end you are in charge of your own counseling sessions. Take charge.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> If she has a degree in psychology ask her what repeated deception does to a relationship? As her how emotionally investing in another person outside the marriage is acceptable and doesn't cause damage to the relationship? Ask her if she has extreme narcissistic tendencies and why isn't that being addressed in her IC? Ask her these questions in your next MC session and do not accept anything less than an answer to your questions. If she or the therapist try to change to another topic hold your ground. Tell the therapist that you are the one that was betrayed and you need answers if you are to avoid divorcing her. Marriage counselors are like doctors. They may have oodles of knowledge but only you know what you feel. In the end you are in charge of your own health care. Just like in the end you are in charge of your own counseling sessions. Take charge.


Beowulf, I honestly never looked at therapist in that manner. Now looking back on it I feel pretty stupid at the fact that I expected to go in and for the therapist to KNOW how I felt. I've explained how I felt but always allow the therapist to dictate the topic and how it is to be addressed. I guess now looking back at it I understand why I'm so frustrated and realize some of that frustration starts with me. 

Thanks for the advise.


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