# Me so Horny - Stuck



## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

So I am going Mad, I want to have sex with my wife and 
she seems closed for business all of the time !! 

Its starting to condition me not to initiate at all. I feel 
alone and just have no idea what to do anymore. I don't 
know who to talk with and I feel like she's is 47 going 
on 90....

I am also now frustrated because we never have sex, she doesn't 
want to hear it or even discuss it .. she keeps saying she 
needs time to herself and she is always working ..

I feel like i am missing life, I know sex isn't everything 
but when you don't have any - you think about it more 

What do I do , what can I do on my own to redirect 
my wanting to have sex, am I going crazy or what ...

I am starting feel agitated all of the time now ..


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm rather in the same boat and have been for years. You'll get loads of advise but I think it will all boil down to your choice to tolerate it or leave. No matter how you lower your bucket, you aint getting anything but dust and frustration from a dry well.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

It's true. If your spouse has no interest in working with you, you're sunk before you even begin. You can accept it, or leave.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Its so crazy. How do married couples expect to be married and on the same page when they don't make any effort to get on the same page. I am torn between feeling bad for my wife and being angry that I get shot down so much ...

I keep asking her whats going on and why she doesn't want to have sex, yet she seems to not want to speak about it ..shed rather just give me a massage - which feels good but its not doing the trick ..

I want a JUICY intimate sex life with my wife !!


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

happybuddha said:


> So I am going Mad, I want to have sex with my wife and
> she seems closed for business all of the time !!
> 
> Its starting to condition me not to initiate at all. I feel
> ...


First don't whine about a lack of sex from your wife to your wife, as it is not romantic or endearing.

Second, try to take some control of your life and your happiness. Get the book by Dr. Glover, No More Mr. Nice Guy and read it and study it. Figure out how to improve yourself and find more joy out of life. Find thing that you like to do and then make time to do them.

Third, learn some new hobbies and get physiclly active.

Fourth, understand that you cann't make or force your wife to do anything. You can inspire her to want to do things for you, but that is different.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I do have lots of activities.
I work out 5 times a week and with a trainer 
I do many different things..

I am having a down day because I am thinking about all the sex
we dont have I guess ,, i feel a bit angst ... I dont feel like 
being ignored any more and I have read that book


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I guess I am just having a really bad day. Its just all catching up to me that I am in this position even more. I feel FRIED in the brain ..


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> I am torn between feeling bad for my wife and *being angry that I get shot down so much* ...


Meditate and think of yourself as a WWII B17 Flying Fortress Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

You've got a mission to deliver your payload, but you know that doing so that you are going to receive heavy fire and turbulence. Parts of you may become damaged, but your resolve must keep you on a steady course. 

You can't force her, but you must be fiercely present and not falter under the barrage of sh!t tests that she will throw at you in wave after wave. Once she sees you have found your resolve to withstand this (without getting emotional like a spoiled child), you can maneuver over your target and let love conquer all! 

Salute!,
Badsanta


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

There are two types of men who come to TAM. 

Type 1: Are focused, determined and emotionally strong enough to work through a difficult process. They tend to focus on feedback from folks who are in sexually healthy marriages, especially those who have turned around marriages that had limited physical intimacy. 

Type 2: Mainly vent, open numerous threads on the same topic and seek commiseration from other men in sexually broken marriages. 




happybuddha said:


> So I am going Mad, I want to have sex with my wife and
> she seems closed for business all of the time !!
> 
> Its starting to condition me not to initiate at all. I feel
> ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Become the best man you can be. Your wife will find that attractive and decide to provide sex. Or you will decide you can do better and it is worth the cost and pain of separation to move on. You win either way.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

happybuddha said:


> So I am going Mad, I want to have sex with my wife and
> she seems closed for business all of the time !!
> 
> Its starting to condition me not to initiate at all. I feel
> ...


Through frustration, I'm exercising more and learned to take care of myself in that department. Miss the intimacy with H but was tired of being rejected all the time so stopped asking. The hard part is that when he decides to give it, it only fuels my desire to want more and I go through these periods where I have to tame my aggravation of want and not getting. It's almost H knows I'll never say no so he gets it whenever he wants. I've tried to resist when he approaches but too weak. Lol.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Holdingontoit said:


> Become the best man you can be. Your wife will find that attractive and decide to provide sex. Or you will decide you can do better and it is worth the cost and pain of separation to move on. You win either way.


Isn't this another way of saying he's responsible for being neglected? Even if he could raise the dead and spin straw into gold, he can't cure mental illness, he can't change a woman's hormone levels, and most likely can't make any sexless woman desire him any more than he could turn a lesbian straight. The person who chooses to put other matters before the relationship is the only one in a position to change this. He can either accept it, leave, or continue trying to persuade her to turn things around. 

He can work out until he's Mr. Universe. He can wash dishes, mop floors, and be Mr. Clean. He can return sweetness for neglect for the next 50 years and it is likely to only turn her off more.


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

She isn't meeting your needs so you should quit meeting her needs. If she wants to treat you like a room-mate, then act like one;

Make dinner, for yourself only.

Find activities to do away from home. Spend as little time there as possible.

Do only half the chores around the house.

Separate your finances, put the bare minimum in the joint account to cover the bills.

Go 180 on her, be polite but succinct with her, do not engage her. Ignore her emotional need to talk about anything.

Cut her off physically. No cuddling, kissing, hugging, etc.

It won't take her long to figure out something is wrong. When she engages you, tell her clearly that if she wants to be a room-mate, you're going to treat her like a room-mate. If she wants to be a wife, she better start acting like a wife.


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## Rockymts (Mar 26, 2015)

I personally think the vast majority of people in a sexual mismatch just need to make a tough decision accept it or move on.

good luck in your decision making process.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Isn't this another way of saying he's responsible for being neglected? Even if he could raise the dead and spin straw into gold, he can't cure mental illness, he can't change a woman's hormone levels, and most likely can't make any sexless woman desire him any more than he could turn a lesbian straight. The person who chooses to put other matters before the relationship is the only one in a position to change this. He can either accept it, leave, or continue trying to persuade her to turn things around.
> 
> He can work out until he's Mr. Universe. He can wash dishes, mop floors, and be Mr. Clean. He can return sweetness for neglect for the next 50 years and it is likely to only turn her off more.


I look at it like this: 

Try very hard to be objective about yourself.

Try to eliminate potential flaws that might be unattractive.

Once you have run through this process you put it on the LD spouse to take it or leave it.

If she leaves it, you know that her LD is not a reaction to you, but is a fundamental issue for her.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Anon1111 said:


> I look at it like this:
> 
> Try very hard to be objective about yourself.
> 
> ...


I see your logic and it makes sense to a point. I'd phrase it as eliminating *reasonable* flaws. Someone who just doesn't find you attractive or just isn't interested in sex will always find flaws in you. A fair share of these LD types also suffer from depression or other forms of mental illness. You will never do enough, change enough, or live long enough make someone suffering from depression, happy. That's mental illness and it interferes with relationships and most other major life functions. That's why it's called a disorder and insurance companies pay for treatment. Certainly, if the OP has the habit of not bathing for weeks or brushing his teeth, he might try doing both as a means of increasing his wife's sexual interest. If he hasn't worked for months he might get a job. If he's 200 lbs overweight and his wife values physical fitness, hitting a treadmill would be a good idea. Trying to hit all continuously moving targets of excuses that one gets from a LD partner is never going to work. Human life span just isn't long enough to permit that kind of effort and they can make excuses like McDonald's makes fries.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> I see your logic and it makes sense to a point. I'd phrase it as eliminating *reasonable* flaws. Someone who just doesn't find you attractive or just isn't interested in sex will always find flaws in you. A fair share of these LD types also suffer from depression or other forms of mental illness. You will never do enough, change enough, or live long enough make someone suffering from depression, happy. That's mental illness and it interferes with relationships and most other major life functions. That's why it's called a disorder and insurance companies pay for treatment. Certainly, if the OP has the habit of not bathing for weeks or brushing his teeth, he might try doing both as a means of increasing his wife's sexual interest. If he hasn't worked for months he might get a job. If he's 200 lbs overweight and his wife values physical fitness, hitting a treadmill would be a good idea. Trying to hit all continuously moving targets of excuses that one gets from a LD partner is never going to work. Human life span just isn't long enough to permit that kind of effort and they can make excuses like McDonald's makes fries.


I totally agree with this.

I can also understand the perspective of someone who finally cracks the code (as rare as that might be) and then says, you know what, it's just not worth it.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

As we say, become the person you want to be. Maybe your spouse will find you sufficiently attractive to become interested. Maybe they will fear your higher value implies that you could easily replace them, and be motivated to provide sex out of fear you would leave otherwise. Maybe neither happens and they still don't provide sex.

Nevertheless, you are now the person you want to be. You can now decide whether to stay or to leave, free of regret that if you had given it your all, you might have been able to stay married AND get the sex you desire.

And if you decide to leave, you are the best you can be and thus best positioned to find someone who WILL desire you.

It is the best you can do in an all-too-common bad situation.


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

Budda try some lite dread game just search google, maybe something along the lines of a fellow gym rat chick coming on to you 

some guys stumble on to dread by accident https://archive.is/h7K5H


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

One other common theme with posters who tend to remain permanently sexless. 

They tend to share their - ummm - resume of spousal qualifications fairly often. They list some or all of the usual suspects:
- Fitness
- Attractiveness 
- Stylishness
- Provider skills
- etc...

But that's not really how this works. In this type situation the question isn't - self perception - it's how your spouse perceives you. 

You want to assess yourself as a husband, best to start with some basic questions. They all start with, Does my wife
1. Crave my company? 
2. Tell me things she doesn't tell anyone else? 
3. Melt into my touch? 
4. Know that if we get jammed up - and only one of us can get what we want - I'll take care of her without hesitation or complaint? 

Because if the answers to all those questions are a big fat YES - you're a good H. And if you are, and you're being treated bad - than that's usually fixable. 






Holdingontoit said:


> As we say, become the person you want to be. Maybe your spouse will find you sufficiently attractive to become interested. Maybe they will fear your higher value implies that you could easily replace them, and be motivated to provide sex out of fear you would leave otherwise. Maybe neither happens and they still don't provide sex.
> 
> Nevertheless, you are now the person you want to be. You can now decide whether to stay or to leave, free of regret that if you had given it your all, you might have been able to stay married AND get the sex you desire.
> 
> ...


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

The constant refusal of sex, along with her statements that she needs alone time are Red Flag indicators that she could be engaging in an affair.

Does your wife keep her phone glued to her hip or keep a pin on it that you dont know the code too.

I am a firm believer that when sex goes stone cold dead in a marriage that the possibillity that the Refuser is engaging in an affair should always discreetly be examined.

Perhaps you would like to put up a more detailed post of your issues with the wife in the Coping with Infedelity section and gauge that groups response on your situation.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> I totally agree with this.
> 
> 
> 
> I can also understand the perspective of someone who finally cracks the code (as rare as that might be) and then says, you know what, it's just not worth it.



Those who "crack the code" generally deal with the milder cases and/or have wives that want to participate in a solution. 

The rest....


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> In this type situation the question isn't - self perception - it's how your spouse perceives you.
> 
> You want to assess yourself as a husband, best to start with some basic questions. They all start with, Does my wife
> 1. Crave my company?
> ...


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

My wife would without hesitation say "yes" to 1, 2 and 4. The only reason she would ay "no" to 3 is that she does not melt into anyone's touch. Not touchy with our kids. Her parents were not touchy. But all the rest are a solid yes.

And we have been more or less sexless since the wedding night.

I think the "bait and switch" cases are different than the "we had it but we lost it" cases. I think your mechanism may well be applicable to the gradual decline as the love fades over time situations.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

No my wife is not having an affair..
I have checked her stuff, emails and phone and 
I have her pin.

I am really stuck as I think she is depressed and 
perhaps her adrenals or system is tapped out so 
perhaps having sex seems like one more thing or 
a threat.

I offered her to jump in shower with me which we 
havent done in 5-7 years .. and then I offered a 
massage and her reaction in a disturbing way was 
what do you want in return for me getting a massage..?

I dont know - I feel like telling her next time she complains
of me wanting to touch her or have sex, that I am tired of 
her acting like a 70 year old woman who just wants to sleep..

Perhaps I do need to say how I am perceiving her vs. being 
nice about everything - because nice and supporting is not 
working to my benefit - Gosh am I crazy for wanting sex 1-2 times per week, AM i crazy for the fact that I get sex 1 time every 5-6 weeks to want it ????? What the hell do I do -- for the positive ?

You want to assess yourself as a husband, best to start with some basic questions. They all start with, Does my wife
1. Crave my company? - YES 
2. Tell me things she doesn't tell anyone else? - YES 
3. Melt into my touch? - Like me holding hand ..
4. Know that if we get jammed up - and only one of us can get what we want - I'll take care of her without hesitation or complaint? 
YES 


So how do I fix this >??


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Holding,

I guess I left out the other stuff - right. Because the other stuff has nothing to do with H2. It's solely and entirely about you.

Anybody who experiences an immediate sex life crash upon getting married, needs to have THAT talk.

I honestly didn't realize you disliked having sex with me. Is it a lack of attraction or am I bad in bed?

----------
You state the truth and then you ask for the truth. 

This is completely different than complaining about frequency. 





Holdingontoit said:


> Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
> 
> My wife would without hesitation say "yes" to 1, 2 and 4. The only reason she would ay "no" to 3 is that she does not melt into anyone's touch. Not touchy with our kids. Her parents were not touchy. But all the rest are a solid yes.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

HB,

You aren't ready to accept help. 




happybuddha said:


> No my wife is not having an affair..
> I have checked her stuff, emails and phone and
> I have her pin.
> 
> ...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

what do you mean I am not ready to accept help...
Please explain ...


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

happybuddha,

You could be me. Everything you are writing is exactly what I am feeling and thinking. I started a thread called "What to do". I have expressed the same things.

I am 50 going on 25. My wife is 50 going on 75. I have tried almost everything I have heard suggested on these boards, over the past 25 years, off and on, again and again.

All these posts about what we can do, what we should do, what we must do to make her desire us more. How we must "work" at it...I am tired of 25 years of doing all that and trying things to try to get her to want me.

I am ready for her to just want me. There are women (on these boards and sometimes right in front of us) who want sex. They are not asking their husbands for something extra...they are just asking for sex. 

I am ready for her to work at it. For her to find a way to crave sex. Take a pill, fix depression, get energized, start exercising, take control of her life.

BUT...I don't like Brussel sprouts. What's that mean? Well, if my wife "loved" Brussel sprouts and really wanted me to eat them with her every day, I just couldn't do it. I might try for a while because I love her. But, eventually she would just not be able to get me to do it. I just don't like them. Don't need them. Sorry, honey, eat Brussel sprouts alone. I think that is what sex is to her. She just doesn't need it.

I am beginning to believe, like some have said, that there is no fixing it (her). You either accept it or you leave her...

But, what if no one else wants us even once every 5-6 weeks?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Because this type situation requires unflinching honesty.

The first step in this process is accepting that the goal isn't getting laid more often. 

The true goal is discovering and then embracing the truth. about yourself. Your wife. And the two of you as a couple. 

Let me tell you why I believe you aren't ready. I don't believe you can answer the question below. 

What are YOU going to do if HB2 refuses to engage in a process to try and fix this part of your marriage? 

And the process isn't you complaining about frequency or groping her or..... The process is trying to understand what's true. Whatever that turns out to be. 

But if you can't or won't answer the question above, there's nothing anyone can really do for you. 





happybuddha said:


> what do you mean I am not ready to accept help...
> Please explain ...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> I am ready for her to just want me. There are women (on these boards and sometimes right in front of us) who want sex. They are not asking their husbands for something extra...they are just asking for sex.


I know you didn't direct this at me but personally I think this is totally valid.

In essence, what you are saying is that the relationship is not worth anything more to you than what you are giving right now so either your wife steps up or you split.

If that's honestly how you feel, then see that through. I should be clear that I am not trying to shame you by saying this.

However, I guess what I would ask you to consider is whether you can see through your present situation to a place where your wife WANTS to meet your needs and whether you think that in THAT scenario you would want to give her more.

If you think that you WOULD, why not try to actualize that scenario NOW and see if that can provide her with the opening to meet you at this forward point.

If you think that you would be doing the same things you are doing now even in this imaginary utopia then you know that there is nothing left to be done and you are wasting your time.


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## Conceal.Dont.Feel (Apr 20, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> I know you didn't direct this at me but personally I think this is totally valid.
> 
> In essence, what you are saying is that the relationship is not worth anything more to you than what you are giving right now so either your wife steps up or you split.
> 
> ...


Anon1111:
I think my wife does WANT to meet my needs. She is just incapable of truly doing so. I would like for no one more than her to meet my needs. I would give her more, if she would show some effort to make herself what I need her to be.

HOW do I "actualize that scenerio NOW". What do I do to provide her that opening (that I haven't already done _ad infinitum_)?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> But, what if no one else wants us even once every 5-6 weeks?


Then you can be continuously rejected and disappointed by strangers instead of the person you care about. That's how I see it. I have spent some time deciding how much pain that is.
MN


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> Anon1111:
> I think my wife does WANT to meet my needs. She is just incapable of truly doing so. I would like for no one more than her to meet my needs. I would give her more, if she would show some effort to make herself what I need her to be.
> 
> HOW do I "actualize that scenerio NOW". What do I do to provide her that opening (that I haven't already done _ad infinitum_)?


You believe she wants to but can't? Is she paralyzed? Doesn't her body do what she wants it to do? What other things does she really want to do but can't?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> HOW do I "actualize that scenerio NOW". What do I do to provide her that opening (that I haven't already done _ad infinitum_)?


I think you act, to the best of your ability, as if you are in your perfect world.

This is what I am trying to do now personally in my marriage and it is far easier said than done. It is a massive struggle.

You try to be the best guy you can be. You stop looking for an exchange-- you just focus on doing you at 100% best.

Maybe you have already done this. Only you know. If you have, then I don't think you should waste any more time and should get out.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I have asked honest questions. I am not making it about frequency of getting laid. I have asked if she is not attracted to me or I am bad in bed, she stated that her libido is gone and sex doesnt seem as important as when she was younger and that she isnt even attracted to anyone else or desires to have sex with anyone and she doesnt know why ? I have suggested planning time and she is overwhelmed to even focus on why she is the way she is, she just insists that she is tired.. 

What else should I ask ??


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

what is CDC are there any articles on this CDC or Thyroid. What kind of thyroid issues ? Any ideas ...?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

HB,

You should ask nothing further. 

Because you aren't ready. That's why when I asked you the single most critical question, you completely avoided it. 

Take this for the honest feedback that it is. You avoid uncomfortable issues. I ask if your wife melts to your touch and you respond with a non-specific comment about hand holding. 

When you are ready to face the truth - you will then be able to accept help. 




happybuddha said:


> I have asked honest questions. I am not making it about frequency of getting laid. I have asked if she is not attracted to me or I am bad in bed, she stated that her libido is gone and sex doesnt seem as important as when she was younger and that she isnt even attracted to anyone else or desires to have sex with anyone and she doesnt know why ? I have suggested planning time and she is overwhelmed to even focus on why she is the way she is, she just insists that she is tired..
> 
> What else should I ask ??


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Get your wife to see the gynecologist who specializes in hormonal imbalance. I would encourage her to start exercising because it releases endorphins and increase dopamine in the brain. These are hormones which causes us to feel happy. Exercise can be a simple walk to begin with and progress to a brisk walk. Do the walking together as a bonding activity. I would go to her to see the doctor so that you can describe her behavior to the physician and it will make her feel good that her husband care about her, the person, and not just trying to get laid. Although the end result might be she'll feel more amorous to give you some:smthumbup:


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Melt to my touch. I would not say that is clear. What does that mean exactly , she loves me touching her , right now - no she doesnt because she wants to sleep and be left alone. she loves laying next to me and holding me ..what else did i not answer..She doesnt go to liqid when I touch her no.. because then I wouldnt have these issues would i ??


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Get your wife to see the gynecologist who specializes in hormonal imbalance. ( she is avoiding like plague because she is scared or doctors and traditional medicine ) 

I would encourage her to start exercising because it releases endorphins and increase dopamine in the brain. These are hormones which causes us to feel happy. Exercise can be a simple walk to begin with and progress to a brisk walk. Do the walking together as a bonding activity. 

1) She exercises 5 times a week twice with trainer 
2) We walk to lunch every day - holding hands 
3) We walk together on weekends
4) We have a date night every sat with babysitter 

She isnt going to a doctor right now, only for her skin ..LOL

I like your suggestions.. I am not juts interested in getting laid.
this is for connection and bonding of our marriage ..

I would say me not having sex for 5 months while doing all of the above is pretty supportive for her ..where i am not having sex or pushing her to do so , cooking for daughter, putting daughter to sleep every night and helping her by doing supportive things without expectations ...

I would go to her to see the doctor so that you can describe her behavior to the physician and it will make her feel good that her husband care about her, the person, and not just trying to get laid. Although the end result might be she'll feel more amorous to give you some


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> You want to assess yourself as a husband, best to start with some basic questions. They all start with, Does my wife
> 1. Crave my company? - YES
> 2. Tell me things she doesn't tell anyone else? - YES
> 3. Melt into my touch? - Like me holding hand ..
> ...


Unless she goes to the doctor and finds a serious medical condition, or signs up for intensive therapy (daily) for a personality disorder or to heal herself from rape / abuse, you probably don't. Yes answers to 1, 2 and 4 without sex indicates serious problems that only a medical professional can address. As her husband, you are S.O.L.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

HB, 
I wasn't clear. My bad. 

Now I'll be totally clear. The question below is the one you keep avoiding. So here it is again. 

What are you WILLING to do if your wife continues to totally freeze you out while pretending she has no idea how much distress this is causing you. 

And please don't play ping pong with me. Don't tell me you are here to get ideas. The group can't provide you with resolve. 





happybuddha said:


> Melt to my touch. I would not say that is clear. What does that mean exactly , she loves me touching her , right now - no she doesnt because she wants to sleep and be left alone. she loves laying next to me and holding me ..what else did i not answer..She doesnt go to liqid when I touch her no.. because then I wouldnt have these issues would i ??


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Not sure if you have children or not... but at one point you'll have to accept she is not "into you" and separate... some cases are really extreme and impossible to fix. For whatever reason, your wife is not interested in sex _with you_. 5 months of being attentive without any sex is far too long. Set a deadline for when you'll be gone and concentrate on yourself. You'll feel better immediately. And stop thinking on the lines "but I love her"... why would you love someone who is not interested in you or your feelings? Stop being a puppy and go.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

Have you tried verbal seduction (aka. Dirty talk)?

That is, instead of telling her you want sex, tell her how she makes you feel. 

Instead of being aggressive in a complaining way, try being aggressive in a calm, appreciative and seductive way. Tell her what she does that turns you on. Talk about your fantasy. What part of her body do you find sexy? Be specific. In essence, make her feel sexy and turned on.

Unless you just want her to have sex with you out of duty, she won't if she doesn't feel it.

Forget about the macho thing and try exploring her body with her, you'd be surprise at what you get.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> Isn't this another way of saying he's responsible for being neglected? Even if he could raise the dead and spin straw into gold, he can't cure mental illness, he can't change a woman's hormone levels, and most likely can't make any sexless woman desire him any more than he could turn a lesbian straight. The person who chooses to put other matters before the relationship is the only one in a position to change this. He can either accept it, leave, or continue trying to persuade her to turn things around.
> 
> He can work out until he's Mr. Universe. He can wash dishes, mop floors, and be Mr. Clean. He can return sweetness for neglect for the next 50 years and it is likely to only turn her off more.


The truth of the matter is that she's not sexless. Women do this when they're not more interested in the sex. I doubt if she was like that when the relationship started. What he needs is to make her interested again. One way to do that is to improve his sex skills - not the macho type you see in porn. but the type that deals with understanding women's sexuality.

Sex shouldn't be about a woman giving "it" to a man. It should be about sharing. Truth be told, women love sex (perhaps more than men). It's just that they want it in a different way. Just understand that way and she will be the one begging for it.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

Youngster said:


> She isn't meeting your needs so you should quit meeting her needs. If she wants to treat you like a room-mate, then act like one;
> 
> Make dinner, for yourself only.
> 
> ...


I agree with part of what you said. Treating her like room mate will elicit some emotions in her - and women are about emotion, not logic. 

But telling her that if she wants to act like a room mate... will just spoil the show. Instead, if she begins to ask you what is wrong, tell her things like, "I'm not feeling fulfilled anymore". emote. yea! I may make no sense 2 u but you'd be shocked at her response.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

Youngster said:


> She isn't meeting your needs so you should quit meeting her needs. If she wants to treat you like a room-mate, then act like one;
> 
> Make dinner, for yourself only.
> 
> ...


I agree with part of what you said. Treating her like room mate will elicit some emotions in her - and women are about emotion, not logic. 

But telling her that if she wants to act like a room mate... will just spoil the show. Instead, if she begins to ask you what is wrong, tell her things like, "I'm not feeling fulfilled anymore". emote. yea! I may make no sense 2 u (as a man) but you'd be shocked at her response.


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

Sports Fan said:


> The constant refusal of sex, along with her statements that she needs alone time are Red Flag indicators that she could be engaging in an affair.
> 
> Does your wife keep her phone glued to her hip or keep a pin on it that you dont know the code too.
> 
> ...


Well, there is an element of truth in this. The question is, where is she getting her emotional fulfillment from?


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## tonygunner007 (Apr 24, 2015)

Conceal.Dont.Feel said:


> happybuddha,
> 
> You could be me. Everything you are writing is exactly what I am feeling and thinking. I started a thread called "What to do". I have expressed the same things.
> 
> ...


Listening to you guys just brought a wide idea into my head. Why not try bringing up the idea of a 2nd woman. Unthinkable i know. But just to see her reaction.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Well another date night . things went very well. we connected and had a great time. Had a few drinks and kissed. Then again my wife said she was cold, I turned on the heat and said we should cuddle closer. followed by her saying dont lift up my shirt and closing her eyes and going to sleep.

How do I respond to this, get all worked up we have candles and she talks for a while about life and then she goes to sleep.. Its been 3-4 weeks since sex...

I just dont know how to react any more.. I feel bad for her..

Do I say in the morning - I am tired of hearing her complain about normal stuff for a married couple shes sounding like an old lady always complaining why she needs to be left alone..

I blew out candles after I laid there for 20 minutes as she sleep and I hugged her and decided to watch a movie ...because I am not tired ..

Do I make myself feel good because I am horny or just hold off until the next opportunity , I will try tomorrow night to see if we have time ---- 

What is the best response to her dozing off and just going to sleep on me, I mean it was 930 pm and its our date night after babysitter left with candles on and all...hmmm..

What do I do - what is the best approach to this happening ?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Never complain. Make a move. Horny with wife asleep means go downstairs and lift some weights. Then wake up wife in the morning and tell her about the great workout you had, and offer to show her the results.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

That's not how you break a 5 month long shut down. 




Holdingontoit said:


> Never complain. Make a move. Horny with wife asleep means go downstairs and lift some weights. Then wake up wife in the morning and tell her about the great workout you had, and offer to show her the results.


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## MarriedToTheOne (Apr 22, 2015)

Some major points:

How To Schedule Sex, For Skeptics | Samantha Rodman PhD

Dr. Phil.com - Advice - Ten Relationship Myths


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

happybuddha said:


> Well another date night . things went very well. we connected and had a great time. Had a few drinks and kissed. Then again my wife said she was cold, I turned on the heat and said we should cuddle closer. followed by her saying dont lift up my shirt and closing her eyes and going to sleep.
> 
> How do I respond to this, get all worked up we have candles and she talks for a while about life and then she goes to sleep.. Its been 3-4 weeks since sex...
> 
> ...


Whatever you're doing to seduce her, it isn't working.

Have you tried the direct approach?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

She's out like an old lady by 9:30.

What time does she usually get up in the morning?

When is she most alert?

Can you figure out a way to come onto her during those times?

It sucks that she just fell asleep after all of that buildup. I have been in your situation many, many times.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> So I am going Mad, I want to have sex with my wife and
> she seems closed for business all of the time !!
> 
> Its starting to condition me not to initiate at all. I feel
> ...



Your wifee is 47? Menopause, hormones change and sometimes the sex drive disappears and sometimes it gets a big boost.

When your wifee married you, she is to take care of your needs as her own and not only her own anymore. She supposedly loves you emotionally, and physically, right?

I say, stop taking care of her needs period and start doing more things for yourself. Make yourself less available and go out more. See what happens.

Sex between hubby and wifee isn't rocket science or difficult. You give each other orgasms and that physical and emotional release.

You are doing things to make her happy and feel loved. She is not doing the same for you.

Her love language isn't Physical / Sexual. 

Your love language is Physical / Sexual.

To be honest, you sound like me and your wifee sounds like my wifee. Too many similarities.

I also have stopped initiating and gave up long ago. If Mrs.CuddleBug wants sex, we have sex, otherwise, I don't bother anymore. But this also means I do my own things alone most of the time and not with her.


The excuses LD spouses give are endless and in the very end, they don't change much at all and the HD spouses are doing eveything and still get minimal sex.....


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

To respond to the above comments all in one reply:

1) I have tried scheduling sex with her ( she thinks that is crazy)
2) She wakes up at 7 am on weekends around 8 am or 9 pm
3) I have offered to make dates during the week since we have 
our own business yet - she doesn't seem interested in a day 
date or picnic or beach rondevue ..
4) Tonygunner: explain this please : 
But telling her that if she wants to act like a room mate... will just spoil the show. Instead, if she begins to ask you what is wrong, tell her things like, "I'm not feeling fulfilled anymore". emote. yea! I may make no sense 2 u but you'd be shocked at her response.

Tony: I have tried the exploration of body - its hard to even try and touch her at times because she looks at me like what are you doing. I m telling you its yawns and responses like _ I just want to relax, I need time to relax, even when she has had space. Like I said every night I put my daughter to sleep to give her time.. My daughter wakes with me in the am and my wife lays in bed like she's kind of depressed.

This past weekend she said she needs to go get checked because something seems to be off as she feels so tired and that something 
is off balance and she mentioned setting appointment for acupuncturist .. I said YES, sounds great , but she's been talking about it for months.

Perhaps I need to keep a journal with comments and statistics in a private place to refer back to a date 3 months prior where she said the same thing and remind her that 3 months went by since she last said that . Every time I try and set an appointment or insist I am causing her pressure and stress about it ..

I am a very nice and patient husband, perhaps I need to start really letting her know how she comes across like an old woman - maybe I should take a more black and white approach to have her get the impact of what she seems like vs considerate and concerned for her space, health and relaxation ...

Its a build up definitely when I get all souped up for a date night, I stay sparkly clean from head to toe , and am sharp dressed, smell great, smooth all over and handsomed up while I take her to the best restaurants all to go home and sleep at the end , Its a really bummer on monday when I go back to work .. I feel very unfulfilled ..definitely !


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HB- what is obvious is that what you're doing isn't working.

Maybe just try doing the opposite.

So if you've been twisting your mind around trying to figure her out, stop trying.

Have you ever tried just straight up ignoring her for a couple of weeks?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

So I had serious conversation with my wife tonight about this whole situation. She asked me if I wanted to see a movie and i said no - I wanted to go lay down and fool around together and I think that would be fun.

After I blew off her comments, she proceeded to tell me that she has had dreams that we are breaking up. yet she didnt touch on what she wanted to do about it but that it was because we have no sex..

Then after we talked for a few hours she we went into bedroom and I lit candles thinking I should just stay the course anyways. Then she said I am stressing her out that I am pressuring her every night to have sex..which is not true at all .

Then she just kept saying that perhaps we should separate and my comment is why dont you want to work on the issues as you seem to just want to sweep them under the rug and ignore them.

She said she feels like she never has time to herself at all. That she doesnt get any time to herself like when she used to live on her own. I suggested if she wants to take a break and stay somewhere separated she can get more space if that is what she really wants and I would be happy to take care of our daughter ..

She then tells me our daughter is not a show piece and I am not going to take her while she stays somewhere else .

I suggested that maybe she needs time to think about things and get in a better place. I also said that she has kept talking about her not feeling well but she has not really taken any steps to work on how she feels or us connecting more ..


She said because she feels pressure and she doesnt want to work 
on it now ..

So I asked her : honestly ; Is it that you are not attracted to me - or because I am bad in bed ..? she said well its neither of them..
she said I just dont feel like it, im tired .

I said that I feel like all you do is complain everytime I touch you, kiss you or show affection - its like your an old woman that wants to be left alone.. How do you think I feel to be avoided by you every time when I want to connect with you ?


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

Budda do you take your friends out on dates or hold hands how about sleep in the same bed, stop being an emotional tampon you dont stack fire wood in hell

Do a hard 180 dread game go out every night get some hobbys detach and play aloof


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

When I suggested that we work on things together - she said she is not ready to work on anything. I said I am willing to get help but I need you involved if you want to work on this ..

I said I can't go in the bathroom on my own and work on our sexual intimacy by myself ? 

Its crazy she says she thinks I am fair, she then says that maybe I need to get someone to have sex with because it seems like that is the highest thing on my priority list and I lay there every night upset in bed because I am not having sex ..

I said its a healthy part of a relationship and if we were having it more often it wouldn't be a big deal so much ..

She said well you can't make me have sex if I don't feel like it ...
Its funny I usually don't even initiate except on friday or saturday and she has it like every day and night she feels pressure from me about sex ...and that I am upset about me not getting what I want ..

Hmm...so here I sit sleeping on sofa, I even suggested she get her own place where she can have her own space since she feels suffocated by everyone and constricted.. She has shared that happiest time in her life was when she lived on her own ...

I suggested that perhaps she is attached to controlling her own space because maybe when she was little she had abandonement issues and so she only feels safe when she is in control..

She said I have issues around sex for 10's of years since she met me , and these are always issues and its always negative .. I said well I am willing to work on them however I am starting to feel like perhaps I don't have issues...

I kind of said too much and hit on too many thing, I know her parents slept in separate rooms... and I said well what healthy model of a marriage have you learned from ??? 

Then she proceeded to tell me she feels perhaps I got married to secure having sex with my wife ..and that was my reason for being married ....I am sorry that you feel that way but that is not the truth and I think your issues are not mine, perhaps you have me confused with someone else ...

I mean she's complained she's tired and all she wants to do is sleep and wants no one around her because she never gets her own space at all ... yet she doesn't seek help..about it, I asked her when she is going to do something about how she feels ? When is she going to invest in us - and our connection being closer ? vs..being repelled by my affection to her..

She said just because we are married I am not entitled to sex, I then said I guess because we are married I am not entitled to do anything I don't want to just because we are married - - 

I don't know - this is crazy - she got pretty upset when I suggested that I take our daughter and she can find a place on her own somewhere to feel better with her space ..

I mean she is the one who suggested that we separate for a while to give her a break because she feels too much pressure around sex, for the fact we had sex 1 time 4 weeks ago and 1 time 4 months before that -- am I nuts here ??

I give her time every night because every single night I put my daughter to bed, I go shopping for her to give her time, I take my daughter places and let her rest to give her time .. I even make my own breakfast , I get dinner almost every night so she doesn't have to cook to give her time .. I do so much 

I am so great with my family its to crazy because her perception is blown out of proportion . Ia asked if she thought I was a fair and good person ? she said yes, its not about that ? am I patient and do I ever scream or do anything crazy , no but she says she knows i am upset on the inside ...hmmm 

This definitely hurts , she is sleeping and I am the sofa maybe for a few weeks I should sleep in a different room to give her space and stay away for a while keep my distance, don't eat lunch with her every day like I do ,,etc


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

she wants you to move out _without_ your daughter... she doesn't know how to tell you, but she is hinting heavily...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

how do you know that , she said she keeps having dreams about us breaking up because of all these issues around sex.. she suggested we get separated to give each other a break . Perhaps I should do that you think ? hmm, wow, shes fine as long as I dont expect sex, do I just not get close to her and stay away for a while, not really what I wanted for all of this ... I just thought it was time to say hey - your not invested in us getting closer or working on anything ans she brought up separation as I kissed her with candles lit ...that was her solution to me wanting to spend time with her ..

Gosh - this really is putting me in a hard spot now , I guess but if things dont get better they arent going to progress , and frankly lots of times going by and I seem to be on HOLD with her , I dont deserve this, I am an awesome guy and have a huge heart but no intimacy or sex is eating away at me


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> how do you know that , she said she keeps having dreams about us breaking up because of all these issues around sex.. she suggested we get separated to give each other a break . Perhaps I should do that you think ? hmm, wow, shes fine as long as I dont expect sex, do I just not get close to her and stay away for a while, not really what I wanted for all of this ... I just thought it was time to say hey - your not invested in us getting closer or working on anything ans she brought up separation as I kissed her with candles lit ...that was her solution to me wanting to spend time with her ..
> 
> Gosh - this really is putting me in a hard spot now , I guess but if things dont get better they arent going to progress , and frankly lots of times going by and I seem to be on HOLD with her , I dont deserve this, I am an awesome guy and have a huge heart but no intimacy or sex is eating away at me


I don't know it... but she suggested separation and, when you mentioned that she should move out without your daughter, she backtracked... what does that mean to you? She doesn't want to be with you, but she doesn't want to lose her daughter by moving out... hence...

Anyway, my wife was/is the same... she even suggested a sexless marriage at one point... unfortunately, although you think you are not putting pressure on her, you are... or she feels you are. She thinks that everything you do you do it to get sex. She is in a bad place regarding sex. She hates it right now.

I don't have a solution for you. Have you suggested MC? You need to get to the bottom of it. You need to know why she doesn't want to connect with you. She needs to tell you the truth, even if this will lead to separation. Once you know the truth, you can work on it, if you are still interested in the marriage. Step back, stop "pestering" her and then ask her...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Have you read neuklas's thread or Bagdon's?

Do you both work? 

You always make dinner?

Sounds like you make such an effort that she finds it oppressive. 

What about her do you like?

How old is your daughter?

I would not sleep somewhere else. Go get back in your bed.

Concentrate on becoming happy. Work out more. Do you have friends over and socialize much? 

Why separate? If things are bad, separation will just lead to divorce.


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

Sorry about all this. 

I had some similar issues and came to the end of my rope. 

What I did to turn things around which was by the book was to detach, 180, get comfortable with the unpleasant but necessary step of giving up everything necessary to let go and destabilize my wife's comfort zone telling her I was not in love with her any more but she had all the ingredients needed to change that back to what we once had, and I was not willing to live like that any longer. 

I told her the behaviors that would result in my continuing thru with divorce. 

She kept saying that is what I have wanted all a long and I always said no but that is the only choice I have since I will not live life with a room mate any longer. 

She caved and started working on things and we turned it around. She now tells me when I do something she doesn't like and I do the same. We address it immediately and move on.

Our outcome is she is at twice a week sex drive from twice a month and I am at a little less than every other day from daily. It is a slight mismatch but it's waaaaay better than it was with all the denial, avoidance and games. 

We meet each other half way most of the time where I am patience and understanding with rejection and she offers up quickies, hand jobs and on rare occasion a BJ when she doesn't want to have sex. 

Once in a while I ask her to let me play with her sexy buns and/or vagina while I masturbate. About a third of the time this gets her horny and we either have sex or I help her orgasm also with oral and handiwork. 

Some say she will resent it over time and bail eventually. I don't care because it is better and I am all in on building on the success we have had. If it doesn't work then I have already come to terms with losing the marriage. 

Once your patience is gone, its ultimatum and you have to be good with either outcome. I am working on falling back in love with her and give her suggestions what to do that made me fall in love with her before. 

Again, I do not care if it doesn't work out. I made peace with that. What I won't do is put up with any more bull$hit of not trying. Either she can do it for us or she can't. I am 48, successful professionally, in good shape and have many other options that would keep me rolling along. I am not afraid of starting a new life with another even if I prefer not to.

BTW I read many articles on the internet that couples fall in and out of love frequently throughout a ling term marriage. I had to and have to believe that to make my approach work.

There many schools of thought out there. That one is mine and it has worked. 

Can I fall back in love with my wife. So far, I do not know.

The process started 7 months ago when she wanted to separate and I said no, divorce or work on it staying unseparated. There were many awkward moments and it sucked. Eventually I had enough and set out to fall out of love with my wife so I could move on. 

When I got to that over 30 days, I dropped the bomb it was time for her to step up and deal with it or it was over. 

Again, she made the choice to cave in to her stubborn bull$hit and it has been a decent ride since.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

another shot said:


> Again, she made the choice to cave in to her stubborn bull$hit and it has been a decent ride since.


I'm glad it worked for you... I did the same, but my wife told me I could pack my bags...  Some women are more compliant than others...


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> I'm glad it worked for you... I did the same, but my wife told me I could pack my bags...  Some women are more compliant than others...


Understood. I prepared myself for that. 

Did you do so and leave her? 

How did things turn out?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

What is encouraging about Another Shot's story is that they are meeting each other half way. Wonder is his wife is now in love with him since he is not in love with her. Sounds as if they they can just keep working at it one day they will be happy, until they are unhappy again. But struggling at it must be part of the deal since it cannot be common for people to be emotional engaged at an identical high level for a lifetime.

Neuklas crafted his own version of the 180. He, too, came to the point that the detachment could destroy what affection he had for his wife. But in some sense its a power game. The one who wants the relationship less has all the power.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

She's not in love with you. I was in the same boat after discovering her affair - and sex was infrequent well before then. After DDay there was a bit of hysterical bonding and then nothing. That was over two years ago. After 12 months I finally woke up to what was really going on and going to continue to happen. The final nail in the coffin was when I told her i was not putting up with this "intimacy free zone" any longer - it was driving me nuts. She put out that night (after initially throwing a tantrum). She started the process - the last bonk i call it - by telling me "it's all for you". Right!, as long as she got to lay there half full of drink and have zero involvement. I pulled the pin on the whole shebang (unintentional pun) after 10 minutes, when it was clear I was taking too long. Any tried and trusty favorite moves were blocked. I gave up. I told her up front I wouldn't be hurried up and that if she wasn't engaged what was the point anyway. That was that. All those months before and after she pulled the "i'm not interested, I don't want to" line and all the while she was masturbating. She had lost interest alright - lost interest in me. So I gave worrying about all that BS away and got on with my life - for me and my children.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

another shot said:


> Understood. I prepared myself for that.
> 
> Did you do so and leave her?
> 
> How did things turn out?



I did pack my bags, but then I guessed she must have changed her mind... she stopped me and said we would compromise...

Unfortunately, the compromise didn't last long... I decided to stay because I didn't want to leave the kids... no big deal... I had already detached by then... my exit strategy is planned... quite sad, but when a woman is prepared to see her kids suffer for her selfishness, you know it's a lost battle...


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> What is encouraging about Another Shot's story is that they are meeting each other half way. Wonder is his wife is now in love with him since he is not in love with her.
> 
> in some sense its a power game. The one who wants the relationship less has all the power.


I tell her often I don't feel loved like I want to be loved which was like I once did. She says she loves me and does not like to hear I don't love her. I wont lie to her and say I do when I do not feel it. I believe she needs to know the truth about the consequences of her choices on what to blow off and what to invest energy into.

I am also prepared to meet the very good possibility that my not loving her and saying so will result in her falling out of love with me if it is indeed true she still does love me. It is very possible she is working towards that. It doesn't seem that way and she is not the type to work away at that type of thing but who the hell knows?

Why stay? I hope we can get back to that magical place. I doubt we can but I want to leave it all on the field and then call the game win lose or draw. 

As for power, I agree with that. 

Is it possible she cause me to fall back in love with her and then detach and blow me off? Absolutely. I get it.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

She feels constantly pressured for sex because she knows you always have sex on your mind. 

It is a complete mindf_ck for you of course because you'll never get sex off your mind without having it. 

You can wail against the injustice of this but it won't get you anywhere. 

Re-read another shot's posts above. That is your answer. You've tried the nice guy route. It hasn't worked. 

You need to become independent. Grow comfortable in your mind with losing her. When you really are comfortable with this, only then should you go back to her and lay it out. She needs to feel that you are comfortable with the outcome either way. 

As long as you give her all of the power nothing will get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mind, though... detaching will take a while... and then you'll have to undo the detaching if she comes around...


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> I see your logic and it makes sense to a point. I'd phrase it as eliminating *reasonable* flaws. Someone who just doesn't find you attractive or just isn't interested in sex will always find flaws in you. A fair share of these LD types also suffer from depression or other forms of mental illness. You will never do enough, change enough, or live long enough make someone suffering from depression, happy. That's mental illness and it interferes with relationships and most other major life functions. That's why it's called a disorder and insurance companies pay for treatment. Certainly, if the OP has the habit of not bathing for weeks or brushing his teeth, he might try doing both as a means of increasing his wife's sexual interest. If he hasn't worked for months he might get a job. If he's 200 lbs overweight and his wife values physical fitness, hitting a treadmill would be a good idea. Trying to hit all continuously moving targets of excuses that one gets from a LD partner is never going to work. Human life span just isn't long enough to permit that kind of effort and they can make excuses like McDonald's makes fries.


If you read MMSLP, it basically says to make yourself the best male, for whomever your W will be in the future. At some point, if sex is that important you will have to leave. Then you will be more prepared to 'upgrade'. I agree w/ this approach.


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> you'll have to undo the detaching if she comes around


Agree and I am not finding that easy and I am not sure I want to find it way because it is giving up some protection and power in exchange for more happiness and vulnerability.

The tricky part is to let out enough line to keep the improvements going without pulling the plug on the incentive or blowing things up because there wasn't enough compassion for relieving the firm stance. It's all finesse. 

So far it's been well worth it because I am having good sex with my wife some, acceptable some and barely acceptable some but they is waaay better than that twice a month bull$hit that I can not tolerate. 

I would also like to add some additional details. MY wife used to insist on wearing pajama bottoms to bed and was not undressing in front of me. I told her visual excitement was a vital for me and not being allowed access to that was also a deal killer for me. 

She now undresses in front of me and now wears something sexy to bed. That was a huge step toward meeting my wants that she fought for YEARS. 

We kiss goodbye and hello by agreement and that has made a huge difference for both of us in that little orange ember staying lit. It's out little good will gesture several times a day.

That little stuff is so phucking important to rebuild and maintain whatever there is to save and build on


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I also am having the experience of detaching emotionally and then struggling to reattach. May be a variation of the same phenomenon, but I also just don't find my wife so physically attractive any longer. It's like my wife goggles have come off.

All of this is a couple of steps ahead for HappyBuddha. If he can get to the point of worrying about whether he can actually re-attach that would be a big step forward from where he is right now.

To be honest, if you look at this stuff objectively, the whole exercise is probably not worth it and if you are realistic you would probably just bail out at the point Happy Buddha is at now.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> I also am having the experience of detaching emotionally and then struggling to reattach. May be a variation of the same phenomenon, but I also just don't find my wife so physically attractive any longer. It's like my wife goggles have come off.
> 
> All of this is a couple of steps ahead for HappyBuddha. If he can get to the point of worrying about whether he can actually re-attach that would be a big step forward from where he is right now.
> 
> To be honest, if you look at this stuff objectively, the whole exercise is probably not worth it and if you are realistic you would probably just bail out at the point Happy Buddha is at now.


I think it's worth it... as you know very well - because you are doing it - you have to go down that path... you have to try everything before you give up... I still desire my wife sexually, but I don't particularly like her as a person any more... she's put me through too much, even if it wasn't entirely her fault...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think it is worth it if you can look at it as a journey of personal growth.

If you are only doing it as a means to the end of fixing your marriage, I think it is not really worth it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> I think it is worth it if you can look at it as a journey of personal growth.
> 
> If you are only doing it as a means to the end of fixing your marriage, I think it is not really worth it.


'course not... it's been a huge lesson in life and I've grown up immensely through it...


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> I also am having the experience of detaching emotionally and then struggling to reattach. May be a variation of the same phenomenon, but I also just don't find my wife so physically attractive any longer. It's like my wife goggles have come off.
> 
> All of this is a couple of steps ahead for HappyBuddha. If he can get to the point of worrying about whether he can actually re-attach that would be a big step forward from where he is right now.
> 
> To be honest, if you look at this stuff objectively, the whole exercise is probably not worth it and if you are realistic you would probably just bail out at the point Happy Buddha is at now.


With the utmost respect to you, I am having a different experience. I look at it objectively and it IS WORTH IT on my case because she is still THE ONE that I want.

I have NEVER had a lack of physical attraction to my wife. To me she is still the sexiest womenz alive physically. She is my first choice who I want to be with physically still.

Part of my detachment was playing mind movies over and over of her with someone else to get to where I got a handle on it knowing that will be the result of divorcing her. 

Detachment exercises also included seeing the polls of how many dates someone went on before they had sex after a divorce 1 to about 5 is the range so after 16 years my wife is going to f uck someone else after 1 to 6 dates but she wont f uck me after committing 16 years to her. 

WOW that's f ucked up but I dealt with it over and over and over until it was at the point of acceptance how screwed up this reality $hit is. 

I am at a point with my attach and detach that I am courting my wife with a big head start but with a handicap of bad history competing with all available men that don't bring the baggage. 

The idea being, someone will blow her hair back if she isn't getting from me. I want to earn reattraction value every day to keep the wolves far away from the door


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> I think it's worth it... as you know very well - because you are doing it - you have to go down that path... you have to try everything before you give up... I still desire my wife sexually, but I don't particularly like her as a person any more... she's put me through too much, even if it wasn't entirely her fault...


:iagree:



Anon1111 said:


> I think it is worth it if you can look at it as a journey of personal growth.
> 
> If you are only doing it as a means to the end of fixing your marriage, I think it is not really worth it.


My experience is different. For me it is worth it in both and or either case. 



In Absentia said:


> 'course not... it's been a huge lesson in life and I've grown up immensely through it...


:iagree:


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

another shot-- your perspective is interesting to me. It makes me think I'm pretty far gone down the detachment road, to be honest.

The thought of my wife being with another man does not really get me worked up at this point.

I mean, if I found out she was cheating on me, sure, I would feel very upset and betrayed.

But if we divorce, I know she will probably (very quickly) be doing nasty sh-t with some other guy that she has denied me for years.

This is pretty obvious to me. It got me kind of mad when I thought about it a couple of years ago, but I got to the point where I really didn't care anymore.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

another shot said:


> I look at it objectively and it IS WORTH IT on my case because she is still THE ONE that I want.


Just trying to wrap my head around this. Not trying to judge you, just curious:

If she is the ONE, then how could you ever deal without her?

What is really so special about her TODAY?

If you did not have a shared past, would you find her so incredible right now?

If you would, that's great, I just am not understanding how that would square with outcome independence.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> The thought of my wife being with another man does not really get me worked up at this point.


same here...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

naiveonedave said:


> If you read MMSLP, it basically says to make yourself the best male, for whomever your W will be in the future. At some point, if sex is that important you will have to leave. Then you will be more prepared to 'upgrade'. I agree w/ this approach.


We don't marry the best male or female they can be. We marry the person standing beside us, as they are, and we not only agree but we require that we will be their sole outlet for their sexual expression. We agree to do so "for better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and in health" for as long as we live. There is no requirement for my wife to constantly be pleasant, constantly be wrinkle free, scar free, or at her optimum weight, consistently employed earning 6 figures. My wife doesn't have to jump through flaming hoops for the rest of her life in order to earn loving behavior from me. That is something I promised to do on the day we got married. She doesn't have to earn the right to share my property or my earnings. Saying, "I do" entitled her to that. 

If marriage has devolved into "I have to give you X but you can do as you please or not", then it's become a contract for idiots.


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> The thought of my wife being with another man does not really get me worked up at this point.
> 
> But if we divorce, I know she will probably (very quickly) be doing nasty sh-t with some other guy that she has denied me for years.
> 
> This is pretty obvious to me. It got me kind of mad when I thought about it a couple of years ago, but I got to the point where I really didn't care anymore.


This is the point I had to get to to be able to tell her I was calling bull$hit and it's a final chance after trying everything else I was prepared to let her go unless she immediately and remarkably noticeably so, agrees to pull her stubborn head completely out of her a$$ once and for all. Avoiding my leaving will require it. Nothing less is acceptable. An occasional back slide will be understandable but it needs to get addressed when called. 

It worked. Knock on wood


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

another shot said:


> With the utmost respect to you, I am having a different experience. I look at it objectively and it IS WORTH IT on my case because she is still THE ONE that I want.
> 
> I have NEVER had a lack of physical attraction to my wife. To me she is still the sexiest womenz alive physically. She is my first choice who I want to be with physically still.
> 
> ...


Having been there...

Having the 'wife goggles' come off, realizing that she's not some special flower...

Actually made me see some of the cold, hard truths in our relationship. And both of us.


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> Just trying to wrap my head around this. Not trying to judge you, just curious:
> 
> If she is the ONE, then how could you ever deal without her?
> 
> ...


She is my favorite steak. If I lose her, I can do fine with burgers, dogs and chicken to get by while on the hunt for another favorite steak. Maybe I will find it and maybe I wont. 

Maybe its like downsizing from my mansion to a one bedroom rental but I wont be homeless. Maybe its like driving a chevy instead of a jag. I aint walking. 

The other fish in the sea are out there and I know how to catch them. 

Does that make any sense?

What is special about her today is what I think it still can be with new skills and knowledge applied relentlessly and even when some of it sucks, it's still the my favorite meal by comparison. 

FWIW I get a lot of satisfaction from other areas of my life. With that in place, if I am getting laid by someone I enjoy like a good burger, chevy, apartment while I Look for the steak, jag, mansion so be it. 

Bowling sucks as a steady diet but not as much as sitting home bored so off I go if other alternatives don't compute for that particular evening


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Well having my wife grab the wife goggles and shove them back on my head was pretty fun, though.


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## MarriedToTheOne (Apr 22, 2015)

tonygunner007 said:


> The truth of the matter is that she's not sexless. Women do this when they're not more interested in the sex. I doubt if she was like that when the relationship started. What he needs is to make her interested again. One way to do that is to improve his sex skills - not the macho type you see in porn. but the type that deals with understanding women's sexuality.
> 
> Sex shouldn't be about a woman giving "it" to a man. It should be about sharing. Truth be told, women love sex (perhaps more than men). It's just that they want it in a different way. Just understand that way and she will be the one begging for it.



Unfortunately this is a huge myth.

Experts - I spoke with three counselors that I know after reading this and before posting - agree that there ARE sexless women AND men. I myself completely lost my libido and desire and ability when it was discovered that I had abruptly (within a month) become severely hypogonadal. It took a few months of tweaking physiological HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy the identical type) to get testosterone levels optimized, aromatised estrogen levels brought under control, dopamine levels enhanced, etcetera, to bring about a magical return (and even better) to my libido, desire, and ability.

BEFORE THAT, FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, I WAS "SEXLESS".

And then physiologically there are numerous medications (many anti depressants and a number of blood pressure medications come to mind) that can so negatively impact libido, desire and ability as to create, for all intents and purposes, a "sexless" woman or man.

Psychologically, the are a great many situations that can result in a sexless mindset (even in situations where sexual response is okay earlier in life and evolves into "sexless" later in life). Just two examples of many, would be that if a child who was sexually abused (even if not outright raped) - especially if by a close family member or childhood associates. Even just a highly controlling father who "emotionally abuses" can result in therapeutic sexual problems (primarily with girls, but even with boys) later in the victim's life. Often in these cases, even the SO is unaware of the abuse (sexual, emotional, or psychological)... in fact, often the victim has deeply buried that scene(s) and requires hydrotherapy processes to unlock and positively address the buried problems.

Saying that someone is NOT "sexless" is pretty simplistic, IMO.


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## MarriedToTheOne (Apr 22, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Have you read neuklas's thread or Bagdon's?
> 
> Do you both work?
> 
> ...



I know that advice on "becoming happy" is near impossible when it is your current situation that is making you unhappy - extremely unhappy!!! Getting a hobby, socializing with friends, watching great movies, etcetera, are not going to make you happy. 

I think that a better option is find things to do (the above plus reading very positive things, etcetera) with the idea of occupying your time, not letting yourself subconsciously put pressure on your wife - or be in situations where you aren't but in her frame of mind she thinks that you are and putting on a "positive front" even though likely being unhappy. Don't have lunch with her every day. Find a reason to get out for even just a bit frequently - especially with your daughter (taking her to a park for example for a couple hours would be ideal). It will in effect be giving her breathing room without going overboard.

But the best advice here (in the above quote) is about separation. DO NOT DO IT. Separation is a relationship killer. When problems started going real bad with my wife in late 2013, I signed up with two of these online "Relationship Expert" sites where you get video tape "lessons" like weekly and both recommended early in the course that a separation was an absolute necessity (and also that it was equally necessary that you refrain from ANY contact for 30 days). What a crock that ended up being. (*) 

Several friends (and some real experts) repeatedly said that this was a big mistake, that it was worsening the situation. And it was. I came back after about 8 weeks, and she was already in touch with a divorce attorney (just as far as "checking possibilities out"). While things are still being worked on (and with MUCH frustration), some weeks it is "Three Steps Forward and One Step Back" and others are "Two Steps Forward and Three Steps Back". But it has been very obvious that the separation deal was a really bad move - and that it set back progress a good month or more for every week gone... if not killed it outright as we are currently approaching a Critical Mass situation. Funny thing is that just about 2 weeks ago it seemed like we had crossed a major line - for the better! And just that quickly things turned around - to The Dark Side again.

(*) It turns out that these two are related (not like as family but as far as "in the business") and choppy off of each other, but out very good sounding YouTubes (but based of junk science and pseudo psychology) and have NO credentials in this type of thing at all.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I guess there are soo many factors. I guess ultimately someone needs to WANT to change where they are in life or their relationship. When a relationship works ok for one person that could cause them to stay in it and just do the best with what they have.

I have sought out advice from several people who have credential is this arena and have lots of experience with happy married couples.

As a husband that has been very caring, communicative, patient and in actuality very open with how I feel that should give me credit for something. However I know there are many men and husbands that just would not take it, they would cheat- they would kick their wife out and get divorced or perhaps have sex on the side with someone who wants sex.

Perhaps my method doesnt serve me the best . Perhaps being a nice guy who provides for his family in the end really doesnt amount to much for that husband. Perhaps my wife takes everything for granted and is maybe even lost in her own issues, drama, health imbalances and stresses of life ...and she cant see any of this .

I got advice from someone that said to keep initiating even if you make your wife mad and dont take it all personally. Its definitely hard not to take being ignored personally and say - My wife has rejected me 200 times and it doesnt mean much ... No big deal 
I will just keep initiating and make her mad.

Then the question is if you make someone mad, and you understand that your intentionally pestering someone who doesnt see it and has said they feel pressure and pressure over and over - now one could say that the pesterer is not being receptive, listening or being considerate of how your partner feels .

There are so many people out there who have opinions about what to do - push for sex, I have tried pushing for sex and its gotten me in fights and definitely at a dead end , perhaps the pain of me pushing and the now toxic push towards what my partner doesnt want..will cause them to really study it ..

I have tried non-sexual touch with my partner for weeks on end, Walks with just holding hands, foot rubs, massages with no sex, cuddling, sitting together all of that stuff - did it really help - not really sure ..

Perhaps the issue does lie with my wife. However if what I am doing by being nice ONLY serves her and she has perception that all i do is for sex, and all my upset is about sex..because we dont have any - perhaps my wife has an illusion she believes that is not true - 

Does pushing someone to get upset, or kicking them out help with bonding in a relationship - or could that be viewed as crazy ? Perhaps setting boundaries deals with who is in control , perhaps people need a JOLT in life. 

Perhaps I get separated and give my wife space because that is what she suggested. If I cant make my wife want me - that what is the point of being married - hmm, I guess that is true.

I also guess that you can love someone without having sex - and that you could get needs you have taken care of elsewhere ..Which has been suggested to me about 5 or 6 times - perhaps I should find someone to have sex with ...I know that is not what should happen.

Perhaps the pre-requisite is go to a doctor, see if what your saying is really accurate because if your chemically off - how are you really in tune with reality ...

Its enough to all drive you crazy, its sad though that a great husband has asked how he can help, what I can do in order to help US, and the answer and response it to give her space - which has happened for the last few years.

We have had sex twice in 6 months, and probably 6 times I got sensual massages from my wife - suspecting she has some issues going on with her that she just doesnt want to face or get checked out ...

Sure I need to find hobbies on top or running my company, working out at the gym with trainer, taking care of my daughter etc ..

Maybe the problem is its hard not to take all of this personal, maybe my wife just is maxed out and has no brain power to take care of me or anything other than herself, daughter and work and I get the short end of the stick ...

It is quite depressing for me . Definitely doesnt inspire me and I am sick of even talking about it or bringing it up - I dont want to be stuck here for the rest of my life with her like this .

Perhaps I am the one that should go away, unplug from all of the family stuff, dinners with family and go lay in my bed and sleep - so no one has to see me have any dissapointment


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HB-- I see two themes in your posts.

The first is: Here's how my wife SHOULD treat me because I do all of these things for her.

The second is: What other things can I do for her to make her see the light?

Underlying each of these themes is an assumption that what you are already doing is the correct approach, that your wife should really respond to what you are already doing, and that by doing more of the same she should really, really respond!

On the contrary, the more you do, the more it becomes evident that this basic assumption is flawed. It doesn't matter how your wife SHOULD respond, it only matters how she ACTUALLY responds.

She is not responding positively to your doing, more, more, more.

My theory is she senses the neediness in everything you are doing. Everything you do is so obviously with the aim of getting her to do something back.

Can you take a step back and become independent of her?

Can you act without an expectation of a reaction?

Can you demonstrate to yourself first that you can live happily independent of whatever she does and base all of your actions on your own goals and values, rather than on what you believe SHOULD be valuable to your wife?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

HB, how do you initiate?

How often?

How does she say no?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

HB-- I see two themes in your posts.

The first is: Here's how my wife SHOULD treat me because I do all of these things for her.

The second is: What other things can I do for her to make her see the light?

Underlying each of these themes is an assumption that what you are already doing is the correct approach, that your wife should really respond to what you are already doing, and that by doing more of the same she should really, really respond!

On the contrary, the more you do, the more it becomes evident that this basic assumption is flawed. It doesn't matter how your wife SHOULD respond, it only matters how she ACTUALLY responds.

She is not responding positively to your doing, more, more, more.

My theory is she senses the neediness in everything you are doing. Everything you do is so obviously with the aim of getting her to do something back.

Can you take a step back and become independent of her?

Can you act without an expectation of a reaction?

Can you demonstrate to yourself first that you can live happily independent of whatever she does and base all of your actions on your own goals and values, rather than on what you believe SHOULD be valuable to your wife?

ANON:

1) How do I deal with me wanting sex - because I dont get any ?
2) How do I deal with me wanting to have us both work towards progress ?
3) Independent - She involves me on every level with work and 
everything almost at times as if I here to make her life easier 


I can take an independent approach, I guess I need to swallow my pride and stop acting like I am married and let go of my expectation of what a husband and wife should do ..

Perhaps i need to act as I am my own person and have my own things to do ... obviously her next question will be is something wrong or why have things changed ..??

When I want to have fun and shes tired or raining on the parade - do I go out on my own ?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

happybuddha said:


> 1) How do I deal with me wanting sex - because I dont get any ?


You're already not getting sex. Try to accept that this is your reality for the time being. 

You are not going to instantaneously make you wife want you. If you have to have sex right now, you can pull the plug on the marriage at any time. I know you don't really want to do that, but it can be helpful to really understand that you always have this option so that you don't feel powerless.




happybuddha said:


> 2) How do I deal with me wanting to have us both work towards progress ?


Your progress starts with you learning to be happy regardless of what she does. Start looking to yourself for affirmation and stop looking to her. You can't make her progress. You can make yourself progress.



happybuddha said:


> 3) Independent - She involves me on every level with work and
> everything almost at times as if I here to make her life easier


If you're talking about work, treat her like a work colleague, not your wife. Establish some boundaries. Make her make appointments to talk to you like you would with anyone else. 

Don't drop everything every time she seeks out your input. At first she will hate this and flip out, but you are establishing your independence. It is necessary.




happybuddha said:


> I can take an independent approach, I guess I need to swallow my pride and stop acting like I am married and let go of my expectation of what a husband and wife should do ..


I wouldn't look at it this way. Instead, I would look at it like this is your reality today. You and your wife are not really doing what you believe you both should do. You can't make her do anything. You can act like a good husband, but one who is more independent and makes his own choices, not someone who is constantly jumping through hoops in order to crack his wife's code. That is not being a bad husband. That is being a person who has self respect.



happybuddha said:


> Perhaps i need to act as I am my own person and have my own things to do ... obviously her next question will be is something wrong or why have things changed ..??
> 
> When I want to have fun and shes tired or raining on the parade - do I go out on my own ?


Your biggest task is going to be to stop worrying so much about how she might interpret something you do or what her possible reaction might be (and also to stop affirmatively trying to trigger reactions in her with your actions).

If you want to do something, do it. If you want her to come, invite her. If she doesn't want to do it with you, do it without her. It's her choice and her loss. You are going to enjoy yourself with or without her. It's great if she joins you but you are OK without her. 

I know first hand that all of this is very easy to say and very difficult to execute.

You have a crappy situation, but this is how you take control of it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> same here...



I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall if my wife managed to reel in someone... Knowing that the only reason she would get / stay in a relationship is via sex... Lots more than she ever did with me. 

They could be burning the sheets but still in my mind she would be resenting her new fate even worse that she resented me. 

And that, people, is true bliss. The alternative is living alone and in her state of mind she's pretty close to going overboard as it is. Completely alone... No more than a year or two. 

Everything has a price.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

john117 said:


> I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall if my wife managed to reel in someone... Knowing that the only reason she would get / stay in a relationship is via sex... Lots more than she ever did with me.
> 
> They could be burning the sheets but still in my mind she would be resenting her new fate even worse that she resented me.
> 
> ...


To be honest, I'd love to see my wife happy with another man, if she can do it... I very much doubt it, because she would be to sort herself out and that's not going to happen...

We actually had sex last night after 2 months+... it was pleasant - I adore her body  - but I felt how immense the detachment is now... it was rather awkward, really... it's such a shame, but I think the damage is irreparable...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's not awkward because it's infrequent or because you're associating it with detachment. It just feels meaningless like an ONS.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

john117 said:


> It's not awkward because it's infrequent or because you're associating it with detachment. It just feels meaningless like an ONS.


I would say for me it's because it's both infrequent and underlines the detachment level... if we had sex frequently, I guess it would feel less awkward... and probably my detachment would lessen... but I'll never know that... 

BTW, it's not meaningless because I still care a lot about my wife... so, it's a bit like returning home, in a way... but she has the keys...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

If she has the keys, you are lost. Either get to the place where she leaves the door unlocked or get out.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Holdingontoit said:


> If she has the keys, you are lost. Either get to the place where she leaves the door unlocked or get out.


I'm getting out, because I can't get in...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

When your spouse is talking about divorce that means they are in 
Brutally Honest Mode (BHM)

And that - BHM - is a gift. In this case she TOLD HB what she needs. Space. 

Feeling crowded kills desire. 

And NO - he shouldn't play 'dread' game with her. I dare any man on this thread to say they'd want some guy doing that to their daughter. 

Dread isn't about managing space. It's about weaponizing it. That's not cool and it's not a loving thing to do. 

She doesn't 'need space' because she doesn't love Buddha. She needs space because she's not wired for a totally immersive marriage. 




In Absentia said:


> I'm getting out, because I can't get in...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> It's about weaponizing it.



I love that expression... I really do!


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Absentia _ So how do I create desire and what do you suggest if I have given her space and we don't have any sex for 4 months at a time ?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Your comments : 
Dread isn't about managing space. It's about weaponizing it. That's not cool and it's not a loving thing to do.

A Loving Thing to Do, I thought all I was doing was loving things, being a committed husband, making my wife feel special , doing great things for her, flowers, quality time and all - yet where is the LOVING in my direction - I am starting to feel more like a meal ticket and good for work and providing - yet I am not good enough to have sex or bring our marriage closer together .. I am so open to doing what pleases her yet - that loving perception and caring from me has what result ??

No sex 
Bickering 
Disrespect ...
I get all her emotional issues and stress 

How is that working ??


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If you ar asking me - address me by name. 




happybuddha said:


> Your comments :
> Dread isn't about managing space. It's about weaponizing it. That's not cool and it's not a loving thing to do.
> 
> A Loving Thing to Do, I thought all I was doing was loving things, being a committed husband, making my wife feel special , doing great things for her, flowers, quality time and all - yet where is the LOVING in my direction - I am starting to feel more like a meal ticket and good for work and providing - yet I am not good enough to have sex or bring our marriage closer together .. I am so open to doing what pleases her yet - that loving perception and caring from me has what result ??
> ...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

MEM: I will take your response . I was replying to Absentia.
Love to hear your thoughts my response was to Absentia stating 
dread is a bad thing to do and not loving ...??


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

HB, I told you this in a PM, but I'll post it here too...

you think you are not crowding her, but you are... it's not just asking for sex... stop asking her to have lunch everyday, stop being so needy, stop giving her presents... do your own thing... spend time with your friends and your daughter, get an hobby, get out of the house... just ignore your wife for a while... 

I'm no expert, because I failed in my marriage. What I told you, didn't work with my wife. But I think you should give it a go... you have nothing to lose. And it's very difficult. But you have to detach quite a lot...


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I'll chime in here. I was in the same boat as you HB. I read NMMNG and MMSLP. I worked on myself. I started going to the gym. It's a great way to get out of the house for a few hours. I started to seriously lose weight and gain muscle. She started to notice. 
I was being disrespected (usually right to my face). Here's on example, she would be talking about things and always refer to the house as her house I finally called her on that. I told her it is disrespectful and make me feel I'm just secondary.I also stopped orbiting her. If she didn't want to be too friendly or intimate with me I wasn't going to hang around her and wait for it to happen. 
I started taking more interest in what the kids were doing and taking care of the discipline. 
I had been doing between 80-90% of the cooking as I was always able to get home early enough to do it. I decided I was going to spend more time working and let her start doing some more. 
You know what?? Not a whole he!! of a lot changed.
We finally had a big fight about the lack of intimacy back in January. I ended up telling her that she has to decide if she still wants me around. I had gotten myself to the point that I was ready to walk. I was even looking for apartments. 
We finally started to have somewhat of an intimate relation again, but things still didn't feel right. 
I just kept working in myself. My confidence was building but I still hadn't done anything about my attitude towards life. For me the glass was always half empty. 
My 2x4moment came one day when my wife was texting me all this negative stuff about life and herself. I thought to myself,"she sounds fvcking pathetic, I don't even want her to come home!!!". That's when it clicked! The lightbulb moment. I thought. "Wow! She must feel like that about me all the time".
Right then and there I decided to work on this. Probably the hardest thing I had to do. Years and years of negativity and I had to try go cold turkey. 
I'm now at a point where bad moods, negativity or just plain b!tchiness doesn't come home with me. It's been close to four months now and I can't remember being in a bad mood. 
Now that my wife has accepted and BELIEVES the changes are real, our relationship is better than ever. She initiated 6 out of the last 8 times in the last two weeks. 
I got myself to the point where I was ready to leave. I made the ultimatum but make sure I live up to my part. I still work on myself everyday and she has started as well. 
You have to decide to work on the whole you, not just bits and pieces. Things won't change much until she actually BELIEVES they have. Once that happens, things get really good.
Good luck.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

TheNub..

thanks for your response . I mist say there are so many coaches and advisers out there that seem to all give advice ...

I have been searching outside of me to find the answer over and over ... I think being positive is definitely a great answer...it's funny because I went to a subconscious hypnotherapist ...and she was like be positive and focus on all positive things all of the time ...I think it's the key to always be positive and try and focus on a high vibration ..

perhaps I am comparing too much to what used to be or things that are not here anymore and I'm focusing much of my attention on anger ...

I want to have sexual relationship with my wife ...I want to pleasure her in so many ways ...I want us to go on a pleasure retreat in bali...where we bond sexually...perhaps expectations a Rock star lifestyle ...sex..more than once a day once in a while...giving her oral...having sex..on the beach...a bblow job. .like she really desires me and sex..that lasts more than 15 minutes between 7 am and 9 pm vs...between 10 and 11pm...on a saturday.

I have gotten angry and bitter that my wife has gone to sleep..sleeps all of the time..and doesn't have an interest in me even after I have worked out and changed all which is awesome for me yet confusing for what I want ...


I am in better shape and followed the MMSL..sex primer and NMMNG..and now other books ..and did coaching on intimacy ..only myself ...though...perhaps that I lost 30 lbs ..and dadseat better aand now have more energy for sex...and work....

I do get excited about sex...every day..not getting any I think about it more...I see a hit girl now and I'm like wow....because I have stopped focusing on my wife all of the time because I don't want to hover ..

im.in great shape and I am amazing guy..really ..I am super responsible and I create incredible results in life and business and results ..

perhaps I need to getting back to being positive and doing things that make me happy. .with sex...maybe I need to master bate and just by myself some toys since I do get urges ...

I am also thinking I should stop trying for sex...and initiating with the wife ..perhaps we need to take a break or I shouldn't push for any or initiate ..perhaps I need to let her really want me vs..having 50 percent type of sex with her ....

if I don't feel 200 percent like I can rock her world or even 100 percent like she wants me perhaps I need to say no....the offering of a hand job...vs sex...perhaps I need to decline and say no...I want to fu..ck..you or let her get to the point where I tell her no several times ...perhaps I offer her a a massage with no sex...and then go to sleep......

Many times she asked me if I want a handjob..I seem to take it at the time as a second choice and constellation prize...and then she goes to sleep...perhaps I need to avoid doing something where it's not 100 percent fulfilling for me ...

I really don't want to be last in line next to her ..my daughter .work .and my her family..


perhaps I need to just try and be like a butterfly ..social and meet new friends ..that's all...and do things that I want and not worry so much about missing an opportunity to sit with my wife ...vs..doing something that must get done ...

if I focus on being the most positive person and try and let go of me wanting sex...maybe the universe will shift for me. .


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Back to step 1. Figure out how to be happy regardless of what your wife thinks or does.

Along the way to step 1...

Decide what your personal standards are for yourself (first) and your wife (second).

Be charitable toward your wife but (In my opinion) you should not accept scraps.

So if she is offering you a HJ, I would personally skip it. 

If you were just dating a girl and she offered you that, wouldn't you think that was weird? Well, it is.

Demand more of yourself first but also demand more from your wife. If she can't/won't step up too, then be secure enough in your own standards to skip the interaction.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Optimism is a disease in my opinion... We become better people not by hoping and expecting good things but by working hard to overcome issues.

Positive thinking of the "I can do it" variety is good. Positive thinking of the "my partner is a b!tch / [email protected] but it's ok because I'm awesome...". I'm not so sure 

Positive AND realistic are both required...


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Maybe you have gotten to the point of asking if she still wants a husband. Tell her you want a wife but she had to act and do things a wife does, that includes being intimate. 
Just do things for yourself, if you want to go out for a drink with some friends, just go. Find reasons to leave the house as much as you can, she doesn't need to know where you are or what you are doing. Only a loving and caring wife should be given that information or asked to join you. 
I would start cutting way back on trying to make her happy. If she asks what's wrong let her know that you reap what you sow. I'm thinking a mild 180. Just avoid doing anything with her. Don't try talking to her but if she talks to you try keep it brief and polite. Show her the same interest as she shows you. 
Keep working out, fixing things, go out and do fun sh!t with your daughter and be positive everyday is awesome). 
When our marriage was on the rocks I started doing as much as I could for myself and kids. It pretty much showed my wife I was totally capable of taking care of myself and the kids without her. I took them shopping, went 4 wheeling just had fun. The old lady didn't want to go and quite frankly, I didn't want her to anyway. 
After a few times though, it peaked her interest of why we were having all the fun and she was sitting at home alone.
One thing I did that really opened my eyes. I sat down one night with a pen and notepad and tried to write down all the things I did and the way I was when we were dating. After about an hour I gave up. I thought I should just cut my d!ck off and be her wife. I was just her doormat serving boy. I wasn't anything like the guy she originally fell for. I was just a she'll of him. The kind of guy we used to make jokes about, the only thing was, I was now that guy. I've read MMSLP at least a half a dozen times now and also another book I really found informative called Get Inside Her, a female perspective by Marni Kinrys. This book sure helped me realize where I have failed a lot in dealing with my wife and women in general. I highly recommend it. 
For me, the soft 180, and the ultimatum is what got the ball rolling to where I am now. I'm getting as well as sending flirty texts, lots of affection from my wife (and it is real) the look in her eyes says it all. When we go out shopping she hooks into my arm and holds tight. Our sex life is better than it has ever been (those are her words). We talk constantly now and work things out asap so there is no chance of building resentments. We are BOTH committed to make our next 30 years our best ones. 
You will have to ask your wife if she will commit to it too


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I would just say: be to nice and civil to her - there is no need to turn the whole thing even more sour - but do what you like... live your own life...it might work, she might be happy about it... if she is happy, then you have your answer...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I would just say: be to nice and civil to her - there is no need to turn the whole thing even more sour - but do what you like... live your own life...it might work, she might be happy about it... if she is happy, then you have your answer...



Nice and civil only perpetuate the inevitable. The "good enough to stay" marriage which is the end game of many LD or ZD partners...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

well I do all of the flirty things like sending a text that says hi sexy..when I do that stuff she is non responsive and I get her things, we go to great restaurants and really fun places as well like activities walks, watching movies and cuddling on the sofa... I am doing all of that and probably more for her now then when we were dating ...

I do hate how she always reminds me of things I have not done right today or she has sarcasm now about things, I never do that to her


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> well I do all of the flirty things like sending a text that says hi sexy..when I do that stuff she is non responsive and I get her things, we go to great restaurants and really fun places as well like activities walks, watching movies and cuddling on the sofa... I am doing all of that and probably more for her now then when we were dating ...
> 
> I do hate how she always reminds me of things I have not done right today or she has sarcasm now about things, I never do that to her


you are crowding her... stop doing that... stop going on walks with her... stop eating lunch with her... I don't get it... she wants space and then she wants you to go on walks and have lunch with her? This is madness...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HB-- I get it that you really want to do all of these things with your spouse. You should not give up that part of yourself-- that is who you are.

What I am saying is that you've got to take a step back first before you can take two steps forward.

Get more secure and independent first, then maybe your wife will WANT to share all of those experiences with you.

If she doesn't at that point, you should probably part ways, but I think it could be worthwhile to perform this exercise to see if you can realign things.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

she is only taking what she likes from the marriage... this is not a marriage...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> she is only taking what she likes from the marriage... this is not a marriage...



That's the key - a cake eater.

Making her life a bit more, how to say, challenging, may not get you more action but it may help show you her true colors. Think of it as a stress test.


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> she is only taking what she likes from the marriage... this is not a marriage...


:iagree:

A walking emasculated atm, classic friend zoned emotional tampon stuck in her orbit

I pray he can turn it around, I feel for him


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

It's actually crazy...when I leave to go on a business trip she wants me to stay home...yet before I leave it's nothing special no sex....it's like she wants me to be there but not for what I want ...

last night I went to office ..while I was there she kept asking me about work ...when I said I have to get stuff done ...she suggested coming home and doing tomorrow ...by the time I got home at 10 pm...lights were out and she was asleep...

a night ago I was watching tv..with her after argument we had ....2 days before and she looked at me ..reached over and held out her hand for me to hold....I looked at her confused what she wanted and she grabbed my hand ...

I sat there just wondering what is going..on..she wants to walk with me to lunch every day but doesn't want sex...she wants my opinion on everything she does at office that's ...she is working on...she wants to sit next to me...lay next to me and at night she wants me to lay in bed when she goes to bed ..but not for sex...and once in a while on date night only...I get a hand job with lotion and she's into the massage and many times will even take of her top..yet no sex....sometimes 1 time in the last 7 months it led to sex....other times she is just making me cum....and then..she goes to sleep..when I ask her what is the issue and if she is ok...she just says she doesn't feel like having sex...or she just doesn't answer....it's quite strange ....

should I just master bate until I get what I want vs...just settling for crumbs...the hand job feels good but it leaves me longing more and wondering what is happening here ?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

No more HJs

No more massages

No more managing her emotions for her

Do your own thing, invite her to FOLLOW you (if you want). If she doesn't follow, do it anyway.

Practically speaking, choke the chicken frequently to get sex off your mind.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

She's not attracted to you.

Do you want to fix that?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

happybuddha said:


> perhaps I need to getting back to being positive and doing things that make me happy. .with sex...maybe I need to master bate and just by myself some toys since I do get urges ...
> 
> I am also thinking I should stop trying for sex...and initiating with the wife ..perhaps we need to take a break or I shouldn't push for any or initiate ..perhaps I need to let her really want me vs..having 50 percent type of sex with her ....
> 
> ...


HB - You've started 15 threads over the last 8 months all essentially about the same thing. The advice you've been given here is the same as you've gotten on every other thread.

Maybe it's time to actually consider implementing some of this advice?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Marduk....

yes
..i do ...that Is
All i want to do..is fix things ..
but i also want someone who wants to play a life of fun and pleasure ...maybe i should start walking around naked ...

maybe I'm too accommodating ...lol


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Maybe my goal this year is to be on a men's calendar ....Lol...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

happybuddha said:


> Marduk....
> 
> yes
> ..i do ...that Is
> ...


dude, you keep doubling down on the same failed strategy.

if in your business life an approach failed repeatedly, would you keep doing it?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

happybuddha said:


> Marduk....
> 
> yes
> ..i do ...that Is
> ...


Really?

It's going to suck.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I want to do something different ..what do I do.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cold eyes review time.

What's good about you? What's not so good?

What kinds of things turn your wife on about other guys? Or when you first met? Or past relationships?

Be honest.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Oh, and listen to Anon.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

happybuddha said:


> It's actually crazy...when I leave to go on a business trip she wants me to stay home...yet before I leave it's nothing special no sex....it's like she wants me to be there but not for what I want ...
> 
> last night I went to office ..while I was there she kept asking me about work ...when I said I have to get stuff done ...she suggested coming home and doing tomorrow ...by the time I got home at 10 pm...lights were out and she was asleep...
> 
> ...


she likes you as a friend... with the odd HJ... 

Sorry, but it's the truth... obviously, she cares about you and values your opinion... she likes you to be with her, but not as a sexual partner...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sorry but I don't believe she WANTS all that activity. f 

She does those things because he asks. She might even complain if he stops because she's used to that routine. 

But it's like smoking. People do it because they are in a bad pattern. 

When a woman says she needs space. She means it. Ignore her at your peril....

It isn't loving to crowd someone. It's needy. And needy, even wrapped in a fancy suit with shiny shoes - is unattractive....




In Absentia said:


> you are crowding her... stop doing that... stop going on walks with her... stop eating lunch with her... I don't get it... she wants space and then she wants you to go on walks and have lunch with her? This is madness...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Cold eyes review time.

In response to this :

What's good about you? What's not so good?

What kinds of things turn your wife on about other guys? 
Or when you first met? 
Or past relationships?

Be honest.

Good About Me:

Patient and Understanding 
Good Listener
Take Wife into Consideration 
I work out 
Dont drink or smoke ( occasional social drink ) 
Eat All Organic and Healthy Food 
Work Out with a Trainer 
Great Dancer 
Make Money at Everything I do 
I am very creative 
I go out of my way to make life easier for my wife 
I always come up with solutions for things 
I love to have the best of things 
We have intelligent conversations about Great Ideas
Huge Heart and Very Caring 
Great Father 
Great Husband 
Very Sensitive 
Sharp and Intelligent 
Top Earner in all I do 
Clean Body - 
Dress Great 
Fashion Sense 
Great Hygene 
Sense of Humor 
Work on myself with Personal Development 
Caring ...
Positive Outlook towards life 
Look at opportunity in all things 
Great Looking 
Green Eyes 
Can do more then 10 people combined 
Lots of Energy 
Easy Going 
Romantic 
Invested in RElationship being better 
Share responisbilities of daughter 
provide for my family 
put daughter to sleep every night to give wife time in bathroom.


Not so good:

Frustrated that I dont get my needs met 
Been kind of angry for not having sex 
Sometimes not as obesessive compulsive as wife 
Could be more organized 
Sometimes let things go because of time 
Not attached to things vs . people 
( Cleaning a room is less important then connecting time with wife or daughter 
Sometimes I make sex a big deal ( probably because we dont have often) 
I try and please my wife too much 
I need to be more straight forward with what I really want 
Need to be direct vs beating around the bush ..and gray 
Need to worry less about what people think ..

What turns of my wife in guys, lately she says she is not attracted 
to anyone else or she doesnt have a desire for other guys ..

But from past experience :

Turn Ons:

Positive Attitude 
Spiritual and Intelligent Conversations 
Making Money 
People that are successful 
People that are very talented 
She has gotten more friendly when I do well with making money 
She gets inspired when we think of big ideas 
She gets excited when we go dancing 
She gets excited when I listen to her very well vs talking 
After she gets a massage at the spa


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Weird stuff kind of happening :

I have not been hitting on wife and staying busy . with work and things to do . Last few nights wife has gone to bed on her own shut out lights and put covers over her head..

I am not sure what is going on. I asked her when she went in at 9 pm and shut off the lights and she just didnt answer she has covers over her head..

I have not been initiating with her at all. Just being there but giving her lots of space .. I wonder if she is just thinking or what is happening ..

Also the last couple times she has gotten upset over the little things I have just listened and smiled trying not to react to her crazy reactionary stuff...

She actually has been calling insurance company to get insurance and see if she can get doctors coverage.. Perhaps she is making some changes towards finding out what is wrong with how she feels ..hmm . we will see ...

What was weird is we got in that big argument 4 days ago and that night she reached her hand out for me to hold her hand was kind of interesting ...when I looked at her like I didnt know what she wanted except to hold my hand.. I am have been trying to be very positive.

I also decided to go away for a few days over the weekend for business to make more money and focus on more income .. I figured I need to push forward and get things going for multiple reasons.

Also the last week I have collected a bunch of accounts and customers for my business. I have been charging people every day and trying not to get caught up in my wifes emotions - since I have been stacking up the sales and customers that I am working on ..

Focused on being positive even in the face of craziness. I have also been just ignoring the sex side right now unless if I want to feel good I just give myself a massage ...see what happens ..

I guess I am making some progress for being very productive and focused on money and results each day ..


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

happybuddha said:


> Weird stuff kind of happening :
> 
> I have not been hitting on wife and staying busy . with work and things to do . Last few nights wife has gone to bed on her own shut out lights and put covers over her head..
> 
> ...


Some red flags there, man.

What justification does she have for going to bed at 9 and pulling the covers over her head?

Seems like she might be ashamed of something.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I think she is saying she feels stressed out by everyone around 
here. That people in life are getting to her and every issue with 
how other people are being is stressing her out . Today she cried 
explaining that she feels tired and stressed from all these weird 
people she encounters in life .. she cant believe how everyone 
is and how messed up people are being through work family and 
life ...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I serious think she cant cope with life right now and many things, I feel if your adrenals are tapped, your health and energy is low 
that anything on top of all of that causes a shut down of your systems...in your body , fight or flight , perhaps sleep is an escape to not deal with it ..


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

happybuddha said:


> I serious think she cant cope with life right now and many things, I feel if your adrenals are tapped, your health and energy is low
> that anything on top of all of that causes a shut down of your systems...in your body , fight or flight , perhaps sleep is an escape to not deal with it ..


Doctor time.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HB- all the positive stuff you listed about yourself is great. You're inshape, responsible, caring, seem like you've got some interesting hobbies besides work. 

I don't think you need a personality transplant. 

You just come off as too needy. You're really caught up in your wife affirming that you're a good guy. 

She IS dropping the ball, so I'm not saying it's totally your fault. 

But you seem to be in a dynamic where the more you chase her, the more turned off she gets. 

You seem to be starting to step back from her, which is good. 

I would bet that if you can give her some breathing room, all of your good qualities will be evident to her and she will come to you. 

I know this is very hard to do when you are as deprived of attention and affection as you are. 

Just look at it like you will be no worse off than you are already (since you're already getting basically nothing from her) and there is potential untapped upside from taking a new approach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

from what you said, she need medical attention...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Regarding the medical condition angle, I think going to your spouse and trying to diagnose her is a losing strategy.

Whatever diagnosis you give her will be viewed as self serving and rejected for that reason.

This is especially the case when there are real issues with your own behavior that have not already been addressed.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks ... I Am Taking This Time To Focus On Resting And Focusing On business...I'm Not Initiating Any More Right Now. ..


I am trying to focus on positive things that make me happy...if I get an urge for sex...just making my self feel good to relieve the desire at this time ....

I'm going to take some space for me....


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Well it's been interesting ....went away for work for 3 days ...came back and 4 more days have gone by...I haven't initiated or insinuated that I want sex....

just giving my wife space to be ...so far it's been as usual sleep every night and she holds my hand while watching tv....

I am intentionally not making any moves on her to see how long this continues ..and if she offers a massage I think I will decline any secondary things...

also ignoring any **** tests ...

as usual ...hmmmm....no expectations at all and just making myself feel good here and there ....

i am just going to take a sabatacle for 3 to 6 months and focus on my work and business and doing positive things for me ....

interesting ...still she is sleeping with covers over head and tired ..it's not because i am pressuring her and not giving her space ....lol


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

just remember-- you're no worse off than you were before. You were sexless then, you're sexless now.

The difference is that you are getting control of the situation.

She is probably not going to believe you are fully in control until you yourself believe it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

There's an X factor at play here.

Do you know when it changed? Do you know what it is?


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## ladyred (May 8, 2015)

Well I'm currently having much the same issue as you except I'm the wife getting shot down and yes with ever shot down my self-esteem falls a little more. 

But I have been on the low libido side before and maybe it will help you decide if could be a problem in your own relationship. 

1. Wife is busy at work and when she gets home she has to clean up after everyone making her feel pissed off and tired. Reaction: Libido plummets. 

2. Husband and wife hardly do anything together and thus wife feels disconnected from the relationship. Reaction: Libido plummets. 

3. Husband doesn't give enough cuddles and all cuddles lead to sex. And personally if the only time you hug on or cuddle with your wife you are going to find that she doesn't want to any more. Commit to hand holding, hugs and kisses that lead no where but to becoming closer again. Maybe you can reignited the spark you lost. 

4. Let her know that you miss her and want to reignite the spark. Take her out on dates and court her all over again. Realize that it might take some time but if you treat her like you just met her all over again you might just remind her of why she married you. 

5. When she finally wants sex from you take your time and don't just jump in. Go slow and steady. Touch every part of her body from head to toe even if you have to give her a full body massage. Do everything in your power to show her that you are there to please her as much as yourself. And when you are done cuddle. 

6. If none of this pertains to her and she just hates sex then talk to her about making an appointment. LOL or you can pretend you don't want any anymore to see if reverse psychology will work 

Just some thoughts or ideas


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I guess ...I can pretend I don't need sex..anymore and develop some new friends with interests such as yoga and other physical activities ....no need to be around all of the time either ....I know when I have taken classes ...or talked to other women at events she is more attracted to me ...lol


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I bet there are women out there ..that want sex...all of the time....maybe my expectations are unreal....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Dude, she needs to talk to someone.

IC or MC, it's gotta happen. Make it happen.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I think I have either been expecting a dream world or perhaps I'm stuck in having unrealistic expectations around marriage and life ..

I thought that part of a marriage was growing your intimacy and evolving as a couple ..perhaps life throws way too many wrenches into your way and therefore it doesn't seem realistic to think how I'm thinking ...

I realized that 50 percent of my battle is I am coming from half masculine and half feminine energy when thinking about my situation ..one part is thinking from male and sex...energy and the other side is thinking from feeling and sensitive energy which creates an inner conflict. ..

all I can say is its really not serving me and I'm so confused ...

I had an expectation that I would be having sex with my wife ..the fact that I have made a life long commitment and have a Child with her would have me expect we are life long partners and lovers ...

I keep blaming myself and looking in the mirror and wondering what the hell am I doing wrong here....I have tried asking her yet I get the ..be satisfied and happy for what you get with a massage vs..sex...and when I ask about sex....the response is I don't have time for a psychology session...and etc....

she's making some efforts to seek either acupuncture or a doctor ..yet there seems to be something going on..today she took a nap for 3 hours from lunch time to almost Dinner...perhaps she is depressed...

I am now wondering why I think about sex....so much these days ..perhaps because I have sex...every 4 months...
do I take my wife's reactive advice and find someone to have sex...with besides her ...?

I think it be great to go on a couples pleasure week in bali..where you do sex...exercises have meditation and grow as a couple ...would most wives love that ?

If she does not want to even discuss sex...with me...what do I do...it's crazy...

perhaps I was expectations to have sex..a few times a week..get a bj..once a month and overall focus on expanding her pleasure and take her to new places even before thinking of me ....but ...am I dreaming ....

is it possible to do this with a child...am I dreaming of something that is unrealistic ?

I know I need to give her space . I just got home from shopping and she didn't even say a word when. I came in the door..as she's stuck to the computer ...I don't even know if she knows how rude..she seems to be at times....lol..

what can I do to be the best man...attract the sex....I want and shift my world ?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Love to hear if anyone has had any results with using the 180 for marriage spark to be reunited ....?

Please share ?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HB-- are you really giving her space?

Do whatever you need to do to get your mind off of her.

For example, can you exercise until you are so tired you can't move?

There is a difference between ignoring her but furtively hoping she will notice you ingoring her and ACTUALLY ignoring her.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Maybe I need to work out 2 times a day...I have so much energy it's hard.....

I think I do take it all very personal ...

I feel as if life is passing by with no solutions


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Its days like today when me and my wife working from home that I wish that she was up for sex, because it would be perfect timing to have sex during the day vs the 10Pm on saturday night at the end of the day type sex...

Imagining the fun we could have during the day if she was into sex..but I cant make her be..guess I have to focus on me and having space for me to grow even though I want sex soo bad...


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

I feel like I am shakey today and I am going to combust !!


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Jerk off and have a couple beers, it'll go away


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Lots of beer and lotion ....?
Maybe I should by myself a toy ....
Ant recommendations ?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

for somebody coming on to this forum it could be depressing seeing all the sex...people were having especially if you're in a marriage where there is no sex happening when coming on here you could feel like you're really missing out on a lot of fun stuff


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## quiesedba (Apr 19, 2015)

divorce her and find a women that likes to have sex with you... there are millions of them


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

Its funny, its not like I have been needy at all with my wife and over the last few weeks I have just let sex rest and worried about work and things that I am working on for myself ..
LOL


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Has her behaviour changed at all?


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

No. Now she's just sleeping ...amazing that she just has no perception of something being off....she probably does ..

guess I will just give her space ..it's weird because part of me doesn't want to waste my time and the other part of me feels bad.....it's a split reaction on my part. .yet I know something must change as it seems like a large something missing ...


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