# Being the betrayer



## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

I have 3 ONS in the last 6 years. 2 when drunk at work conferences, once sober at work when I was offered a BJ.

Some history of me.

Met my wife when was 20, she had 2 youngkids from previous relationship. I had only had one brief sexual encounter with someone before we met. Had another kid together then got married at 23. Have had another since. For many years all was perfect and my wife thought it was but then so did I. But I did these three things which I covered up and lied about continuously.

On each of these occasions I have never managed to complete any of these encounters as I always fail.

What I don't understand in my own head is why I felt the need to do any of these when life was perfect, kids, wife all loving supportive and faithful. 

Wife found out about one occasion last year and we slowly picked up some pieces but I never told her the truth until faced with a poly test when I then told her all, although it was very hard I had no idea how strong she was and never truly understood her love for me.

I have broken her beyond belief with these betrayals.

If anyone has any thoughts on why men do these things

Was I trying to prove a point to myself , peers, did I think I was missing out. I know deep down that I don't want to be an adultere but until I understand why I did these things then I cant be truthful and honest with myself how can I be with my wife

I want to be with my wife and hope somehow we can come through this.

If anyone can understand the above and help then please do so

Thanks for your time , I'm not even sure if the above makes any sense.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

megmg said:


> If anyone has any thoughts on why men do these things
> 
> Was I trying to prove a point to myself , peers, did I think I was missing out. .


You answered your own question. The problem is going to be how to stop, not how did you start. You're like me Dawg, you have the addiction, you don't just quit never to think about it again. The great life, wife and kids ain't going to stop you. The best you can hope for in get on the wagon and pray for the strength not to get off.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I think I can sum up the answer to your question with one word: Ego

It's quite basic. To fill your ego, you do these things. Oh, and one little tidbit to maybe help your wife a little here...don't claim "drunk" ever as a reason to cheat. If you're drunk enough to forget you're married, then you're drunk enough NOT to perform.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I disagree (with 5string). As someone else who has cheated, I think you need to understand WHY you cheated before you can hope/expect to stop. If you can't work it out in your own, find a good individual counselor. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Another cheater here - I agree with PBear - and SomedayDig. 

Assuming you're not a sociopathic serial cheater some void in you let you have weak enough boundaries to do this. The question is what is the void and what do you do about it. 

For my $.02 most cheating is about self esteem - or more correctly a lack there of.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

As Sigma and PBear said, finding out what that void is and why is pertinent.


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

I think Dig is right. It would appear from your post that you need to do these things to validate yourself in some way. Feed your Ego. "I am lion, hear me roar" kind of thing. You may realize that you have the best wife and family but it isn't enough for you. I am guessing you are probably selfish by nature and you feel like you always deserve more? 

What does cheating always boil down to? 


*SELFISHNESS!*


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Exsquid said:


> I think Dig is right. It would appear from your post that you need to do these things to validate yourself in some way. Feed your Ego. "I am lion, hear me roar" kind of thing. You may realize that you have the best wife and family but it isn't enough for you. I am guessing you are probably selfish by nature and you feel like you always deserve more?
> 
> What does cheating always boil down to?
> 
> ...


I agree. 

Not all people with low self esteem choose to cheat. 

IMO, cheating is about being selfish and self absorbed and pleasure seeking and feeling entitled. 

Nothing more, nothing less.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I agree.
> 
> Not all people with low self esteem choose to cheat.
> 
> ...


It can be for sure and having an affair is almost perfectly selfish but this isn't the same as the guy who won't share the mashed potatoes at Thanksgiving. I think a lot - certainly not all though - of the people who cheat wind up participating is such overwhelmingly selfish behavior because that behavior temporarily fills a self esteem void - and having that void filled quickly becomes more important than anything else - hence the overwhelmingly selfish behavior of having an affair.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Is the question why can I not perform when it all boils down to it, because after 3 ONS you never 'completed', and one of those times you were stone cold sober? So was it drink or knowing on some deep level it was just wrong!


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Thanks for quick responses

Addiction - yes do have addictive personality ,smoked the weed for 25 years nearly everyday, been clean for about a year and will never go back to that moron that sat there stoned every night.

Ego - don't think I'm selfish by nature but that's for others to decide, most would think I'm quite giving I think although think all males do the I'm a lion hear me roar bit now and then

Low self esteem - this keeps hitting a nerve as I'm quite successful at work and never Been without a good job, but always used to think why my wife was with me, not the first time I had brought this up to myself, and have thought that she was only with me for security.... How foolish that seems now I have broken her heart

Awaiting more feedback .... Thanks


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

So you thought your wife settled for you, that she could have done better? You kind of proved her right!


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Gemjo... No that's not the question, question how can I let myself get in these situations when it's not where I want to be, that might be the effect of me knowing deep down its wrong but why get in that place?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Don't confuse self esteem with self confidence. 

This is self confidence - "I'm quite successful at work and never Been without a good job," 

This is a lack of self esteem - "but always used to think why my wife was with me"


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

megmg said:


> Gemjo... No that's not the question, question how can I let myself get in these situations when it's not where I want to be, that might be the effect of me knowing deep down its wrong but why get in that place?


Because at that moment that is what you wanted more than anything else....it's that simple

more than your wife and children.....you wanted a quick fix

would you have gone for the quick fix if you knew your wife would find out?


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

If my wife was sitting next to me then no I wouldn't...

But what was it fixing? That's the crux of it...

There was nothing wrong with my marriage / wife they were perfect.

I'm the one that is broken somewhere, nothing I have done will ever get repeated , I know that but what doesn't work is what is wrong with me?


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

nothing much different to a lot of guys who cheat.

You wanted your cake and you wanted to eat it.

'wanted' but you didn't 'fully' manage it, so why keep trying?

Maybe you should have considered you were wrong in cheating, that's why you couldn't get it up, it didn't sit well with you, in your heart and mind....you were very willing to try though.......and that says a lot.

Can I ask, when your drunk can you manage to get it up with your loving wife?


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

Alright Meg,

Then let's see if we can try this approach. Keep it clean though.

How did you feel when you were "in the moment" with these women?

What thoughts were going through your head when this was happening?

How did you feel immediately after these encounters?

What was your predominate emotion after these encounters?

What were you thinking about after these encounters?

Why couldn't you "finish the deed"? Was it truly just a drunk thing for the first 2 times?

Why couldn't you finish when you were sober?


These are deep questions. The intent is to try to figure out why you were doing these things right? So you are going to have to be honest with yourself when you answer these.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Gemjo, simply yes I can when drunk.
Esxuid thanks for the thoughts reply coming when I have digested


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

megmg said:


> Gemjo, simply yes I can when drunk.
> Esxuid thanks for the thoughts reply coming when I have digested


If you are honest in the answers and you really put some thought into it, you will likely have the answers to why you cheated. Good luck. 

The hardest thing to do is accept that you have a fundamental fault and try to fix it. The courage to correct our own faults and behaviors has to come from within. And only after we become brutally honest with ourselves can this change occur.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Exsquid said:


> If you are honest in the answers and you really put some thought into it, you will likely have the answers to why you cheated. Good luck.
> 
> The hardest thing to do is accept that you have a fundamental fault and try to fix it. The courage to correct our own faults and behaviors has to come from within. And only after we become brutally honest with ourselves can this change occur.


I like you, you talk sense


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

gemjo said:


> I like you, you talk sense



LOL I think you just caught me on a good day.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

The flesh is weak.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> The flesh is weak.


is it the flesh that is weak or the whole person?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

The whole person - at least at that point in time.


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## megmg (Sep 30, 2012)

Ok here goes.....


How did I feel... To start with excited, this person wanted me


Thoughts going through my head... 
Sober WTF am I doing get out of my car... The same person offered it again and I tried again to same effect, went limp and thought WTF get out of my car

Drunk.. Initially ... I'm going to have sex! Soon sobered to think I don't want to be here but felt I had to prove myself, which failed embarassingly so, even tried to imagine it was my wife which didn't work as I knew it wasn't

How did I feel afterwards.. Stupid, embarrassed , dirty...


When some 'friends' found out about the sober one I tried to make out it was a joke and I was some jack the lad..... As if they knew the truth that I failed I wouldn't pass some test.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

megmg said:


> Ok here goes.....
> 
> 
> How did I feel... To start with excited, this person wanted me
> ...


you just could be a sad b*stard! Most woman would respect and want a man who had some morals. THAT'S A WOMAN WORTH HAVING, NOT ONE WHO DROPS HER KNICKERS FOR ANYBODY AT A WORKS DO!

Morals are when you are true to yourself, honest to yourself, not acting out some fantasy because you imagine you look more of a bloke.

A *good* woman is always going to prefer a gentleman, you obviously aren't one, and your wife would be wise to find someone who is legit. and get shut of you. You don't deserve your wife.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

megmg said:


> but always used to think why my wife was with me, not the first time I had brought this up to myself, and have thought that she was only with me for security.... How foolish that seems now I have broken her heart


This sounds to me like you lack a great deal of love and self-respect. Not so much "self-esteem" as much as you believe to your core that you aren't loveable and don't deserve love.

How did you learn to be that way? What was your childhood like? What were your parents like?


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

megmg said:


> Ok here goes.....
> 
> 
> How did I feel... To start with excited, this person wanted me


So what you're describing is....Ego. As I said in my first post.

What you might be confused about is ego as in machismo. That's not it. When I'm talking about ego, I'm talking about that little (or big in some cases) voice that tells you how awesome this is that someone is paying attention to you.

So, why didn't your wife paying attention to you give you the same ego feed? Simple. You already have her love/attention.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Broken people can do broken things. You might benefit from counselling to help you find out why YOU did it. Might help to proof yourself against doing it again.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I understand that this will sound a bit twisted, but I have thought for a long time that some people with low self-esteem who love their spouses may think about cheating because they don't think they're good enough for their SO's and if they're caught, it will force an end to what they fear is destined to end anyway.

They can't bring themselves to end things, but they can make the axe fall if they do something like cheat. Again, they don't want an end to the marriage, but do things to sabotage it because they don't feel they deserve the other person. They create that self-fulfilling prophecy.

On the side of the person who is cheated on: I have a friend who says she subconsciously wants to catch her H cheating because she could leave him without being the one at fault. She loves him madly and doesn't want this, but has a very sad level of self-esteem, just doesn't believe he would want her forever & this would put her out of her misery.

Twisted, yes, I guess. But somehow makes sense to me.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I understand that this will sound a bit twisted, but I have thought for a long time that some people with low self-esteem who love their spouses may think about cheating because they don't think they're good enough for their SO's and if they're caught, it will force an end to what they fear is destined to end anyway.


Exactly.

I think it can even go deeper, which is to say that if they hate themselves enough, on some level they actively disrespect their spouse for loving them. They don't deserve love, can't imagine anyone could possibly feel that way, and want to beat their spouse to the punch.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Exactly.
> 
> ...They don't deserve love, can't imagine anyone could possibly feel that way, and want to beat their spouse to the punch.


Yes, exactly. I know a few women like this & they had very authoritarian fathers.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Better listen to me Meg. The next time it happens, look me up here and I.M. me.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

megmg said:


> Ok here goes.....
> 
> 
> How did I feel... To start with excited, this person wanted me
> ...


Sorry but I can only imagine that youre not going to go to your car for a BJ-not be able to perform- so then you decide "wow maybe thinking of my wife will help"......come on. Your wife was the furthest thing from your mind while youre in your car chasing a BJ. I mean youre saying "wow while Im with AP Im fatasizing about my wife......" Yeah. Right. 

At least dont try to bull sh*t us. And if it is true(1% chance) why oh why would you go back for a 3rd??????? In your office, with a coworker who would possibly tell others that you couldnt 'rise' to the occasion ???? Really? Something seems....off here.


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I think it can even go deeper, which is to say that if they hate themselves enough, on some level they actively disrespect their spouse for loving them. They don't deserve love, can't imagine anyone could possibly feel that way, and want to beat their spouse to the punch.


What happened to that simple theory of just being *selfish*? So, selfishness and plus some other problems from the past cause someone to cheat?

(Sorry, this may be considered a hijack of thread, but we are all scratching just the surface here and meg would be best served with counseling -- some history may be at play)


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Sorry but for me 

once = a possible mistake
so - choices
selfish
cake eat
knowingly
by choice you inflict huge amounts of pain and suffering to the one person who loves you the most in the world

makes you not the nicest of people. 

Not somebody I'd want to be associated with or married to
(although I was married to somebody like you) 

all by choice - yours

You don't deserve her - leave it and let her have somebody who really deserves her


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I understand that this will sound a bit twisted, but I have thought for a long time that some people with low self-esteem who love their spouses may think about cheating because they don't think they're good enough for their SO's and if they're caught, it will force an end to what they fear is destined to end anyway.
> 
> They can't bring themselves to end things, but they can make the axe fall if they do something like cheat. Again, they don't want an end to the marriage, but do things to sabotage it because they don't feel they deserve the other person. They create that self-fulfilling prophecy.
> 
> ...


Now THATS a broken person. Sad. You give me pause for thought here, Alte.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

> Originally Posted by iheartlife
> Exactly.
> 
> I think it can even go deeper, which is to say that if they hate themselves enough, on some level they actively disrespect their spouse for loving them. They don't deserve love, can't imagine anyone could possibly feel that way, and want to beat their spouse to the punch.





BookOfJob said:


> What happened to that simple theory of just being *selfish*? So, selfishness and plus some other problems from the past cause someone to cheat?
> 
> (Sorry, this may be considered a hijack of thread, but we are all scratching just the surface here and meg would be best served with counseling -- some history may be at play)


I'm not sure why you think that I'm suggesting that this isn't the very height, the very epitome, of selfishness. We all have our baggage--but some people choose to take it out on others. 

This is just one example, one explanation, one "flavor" of selfishness. It's a form of self-destruction, but it takes other people along with it.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> You give me pause for thought here, Alte.


There is truth in this theory, at least for some cheaters. It is true with me, but to a much smaller extent than Alte describes.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> There is truth in this theory, at least for some cheaters. It is true with me, but to a much smaller extent than Alte describes.


So you cheated on BTB because you thought her too good for you???????:scratchhead:


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## Falene (Dec 31, 2011)

megmg said:


> If anyone has any thoughts on why men do these thingsQUOTE]
> 
> Women do it too.
> 
> ...


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> So you cheated on BTB because you thought her too good for you???????:scratchhead:


No - like I said - it's true to a much lesser extent for me. This is going to sound pathetic and totally lame but deep down there is a part of me that wonders why anyone would love me. I know it's irrational, I know it makes no sense and rationally I can dismiss it. But deep down in my most basic wiring that feeling is still there. I don't believe that I don't deserve to be loved or that my wife is too good for me (although some here would argue that point), at some level I just don't see what's special about me. That's part of what made me susceptible to someone like my OW lavishing attention on me. That's not all of it, but it's certainly a significant contributing factor. 

Again, rationally I know the above is utter rubbish but I can't totally erase it from my being either.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Falene said:


> megmg said:
> 
> 
> > If anyone has any thoughts on why men do these thingsQUOTE]
> ...


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> No - like I said - it's true to a much lesser extent for me. This is going to sound pathetic and totally lame but deep down there is a part of me that wonders why anyone would love me. I know it's irrational, I know it makes no sense and rationally I can dismiss it. But deep down in my most basic wiring that feeling is still there. I don't believe that I don't deserve to be loved or that my wife is too good for me (although some here would argue that point), at some level I just don't see what's special about me. That's part of what made me susceptible to someone like my OW lavishing attention on me. That's not all of it, but it's certainly a significant contributing factor.
> 
> Again, rationally I know the above is utter rubbish but I can't totally erase it from my being either.


yeah, I get that Sig. And she's not too good for you and you know it! You own it better than anyone I've ever seen on here. Be proud of that.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> Again, rationally I know the above is utter rubbish but I can't totally erase it from my being either.


Sigma, it's not rubbish. Many people use low self steem or whatever as a copout, a way to avoid responsbility. It always sounds as parroting. Truth is acknowledging low self steem is brave. Owning their choices doesn't mean you just stay there, diggin the driven forces is key to personal recovery.


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> ........ there is a part of me that wonders why anyone would love me. I know it's irrational, I know it makes no sense and rationally I can dismiss it. But deep down in my most basic wiring that feeling is still there. I don't believe that I don't deserve to be loved or that my wife is too good for me (although some here would argue that point), at some level I just don't see what's special about me........


Sig, thanks for being here. Can you tell me if you think that your history might have something to do with this? I think in this very thread someone mentioned there could be an authoritarian father figure?

I am curious and of course this can not be set like gospel or science but might help me understand more.... My story has all these elements in it. The facebook revelation from my WW has these signs all over it.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I hate to blame anyone else for my shortcomings so I tend to discount that theory. Having said that, it's certainly possible. I grew up in a house I believed was the Cleavers doing everything I could to make my father proud of me, which I was very successful at. He did not with hold praise, approval, affection, or anything else from me. But at the same time he was very demanding - still is and I work with him/for him today. 

So if the question is was it nature or nurture? I'll say nature, I think I'm mostly just wired that way. I really can't fault my parents for anything they did in raising me.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

My sense is that a lot of cheaters 'affair down' because they're finding a level of comfort with their own self-images. Their deficient self-esteem means they can relax with people who are not as good-looking, accomplished, smart, etc. as their spouses.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> My sense is that a lot of cheaters 'affair down' because they're finding a level of comfort with their own self-images. Their deficient self-esteem means they can relax with people who are not as good-looking, accomplished, smart, etc. as their spouses.


yes. THIS is it. I mean afterall, He has me. How's he gonna 'affair up'?


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