# Single girl in a nice car



## katiecrna

Ok men... what if you meet this nice girl and you see her car and it’s a really nice sports car? Does this change your opinion about her?

The reason I’m asking is because I seem to get labeled as a gold digger, or someone who looks like I COULD be one. And I’m super annoyed by this because I like a couple nice things like shoes for example and I can afford shoes. For the record I make my own money and I make good money. 
I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed. So right away his guard was up. For the record, I like the way I dress, and I like what I like. So I need a new car because mine is breaking down and I’m thinking of getting a M4 but don’t know if men will be intimidated by this.


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## EllisRedding

Really, the type of car would make very little difference for me. A nice car would have me thinking that either a) she has her own money or b) she is in a ton of debt  Then again, you can get "nicer" cars now thanks to leasing without having to pay a ton of money

If a man is intimated by your car, is that really a man you would be interested in? Get the car you want for yourself and not what others would think.


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## EllisRedding

katiecrna said:


> I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed.


Curious as well, can you expand on this? When I go out to steakhouses for dinner, I think there is a certain type/way some women do dress that pretty much signals they are looking for men with money. The guys are playing the part as well, so more power to them if that is the game they want to play.


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## CharlieParker

Sounds like a good form of picker. Would you want to be with these guys? 

M4 says “car chick” to me, and that’s a good thing.


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## Luminous

If I saw what you described, I would be curious if she purchased it with her own money (or is paying it off), or if Mummy and Daddy gave it to her.

Any woman who paves their own way is great in my book.


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## Fazz

The fact that you have a nice car or nice clothes actually indicates that you probably aren't a gold digger if you have been able to obtain those items yourself. So I wouldn't associate your material possessions with what society labels as a "Gold Digger".

In regards to men being intimidated, that is a totally different topic, and some men may be intimidated by it, however, what does it matter, you are who you are and those who find that attractive and non-intimidating will naturally be attracted to you. Also, those who may at first find it intimidating may drop any concerns once they get to know you for who you are, so perhaps focus on connecting with them at a deeper level first before they even consider you as a potential date or partner.


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## katiecrna

EllisRedding said:


> Curious as well, can you expand on this? When I go out to steakhouses for dinner, I think there is a certain type/way some women do dress that pretty much signals they are looking for men with money. The guys are playing the part as well, so more power to them if that is the game they want to play.




Ok so this is hard to explain and might make me look bad but here it does...

Do I care about money? Yes a little bit. I don’t mind making more money than my partner but I don’t want to make a LOT more. The thing for me is that I am traditional in the since that I want the balance between my relationship to be a certain way.... I don’t want to be the more educated, more money making, better job person in the relationship. And it’s not because I want money it’s because I want a certain relationship/balance. Plus I am attracted to smart men, and I respect educated men. So I will usually only go out with a man with a advance degree. And I work in health care and I’m not saying I need a doctor but it’s nice to date someone that I can talk about my job with and him understand. 

So this guy I went out with I pursued on match. He is a doctor. And he is sensitive to gold diggers and he thought that the only reason why I asked him out was Bc he was a doctor and then when we met he followed up that judgement based on what I was wearing and I could tell that he thought I was a “certain way” if that makes sense. 

It’s hard to explain but I hate feeling judged by people because I have been judged my whole life about stuff like this.


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## katiecrna

And it bothers me because what’s wrong with liking nice things If you don’t go overboard. I don’t have kids, I’m not married and this is the youngest and hottest I’ll ever be so I’m going to enjoy myself. It bothers me that men like “watch out” for women like me. When I don’t think it’s bad if I make my own money.


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## john117

M4 says "dress to impress". Make it an Alfa Romeo Giulia - cheaper too - and it says a different mindset altogether.


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## EllisRedding

katiecrna said:


> Ok so this is hard to explain and might make me look bad but here it does...
> 
> Do I care about money? Yes a little bit. I don’t mind making more money than my partner but I don’t want to make a LOT more. The thing for me is that I am traditional in the since that I want the balance between my relationship to be a certain way.... I don’t want to be the more educated, more money making, better job person in the relationship. And it’s not because I want money it’s because I want a certain relationship/balance. Plus I am attracted to smart men, and I respect educated men. So I will usually only go out with a man with a advance degree. And I work in health care and I’m not saying I need a doctor but it’s nice to date someone that I can talk about my job with and him understand.
> 
> So this guy I went out with I pursued on match. He is a doctor. And he is sensitive to gold diggers and he thought that the only reason why I asked him out was Bc he was a doctor and then when we met he followed up that judgement based on what I was wearing and I could tell that he thought I was a “certain way” if that makes sense.
> 
> It’s hard to explain but I hate feeling judged by people because I have been judged my whole life about stuff like this.


Should've just shown up to the date in scrubs lol

As far as your first part about caring about money / education, I see nothing wrong with it whatsoever. If that is what drives you to certain types of men, go with it. I think the only caveat would be passing up on someone who could be a great fit in so many ways just b/c they didn't meet a requirement. Honestly though, this would apply to just about everyone as we all have our likes and dislikes


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## katiecrna

john117 said:


> M4 says "dress to impress". Make it an Alfa Romeo Giulia - cheaper too - and it says a different mindset altogether.




I had to look it up, it’s a nice car. I would have to test drive it. All I know is that the power behind a bmw feels amazing!


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## Andy1001

katiecrna said:


> Ok so this is hard to explain and might make me look bad but here it does...
> 
> Do I care about money? Yes a little bit. I don’t mind making more money than my partner but I don’t want to make a LOT more. The thing for me is that I am traditional in the since that I want the balance between my relationship to be a certain way.... I don’t want to be the more educated, more money making, better job person in the relationship. And it’s not because I want money it’s because I want a certain relationship/balance. Plus I am attracted to smart men, and I respect educated men. So I will usually only go out with a man with a advance degree. And I work in health care and I’m not saying I need a doctor but it’s nice to date someone that I can talk about my job with and him understand.
> 
> So this guy I went out with I pursued on match. He is a doctor. And he is sensitive to gold diggers and he thought that the only reason why I asked him out was Bc he was a doctor and then when we met he followed up that judgement based on what I was wearing and I could tell that he thought I was a “certain way” if that makes sense.
> 
> It’s hard to explain but I hate feeling judged by people because I have been judged my whole life about stuff like this.


I am not judging you but I would ask you this gently.Do you not think that a doctor should be the last person you should date?
You allready married one and the expression “Once bitten,twice shy” springs to mind.
I lived beside a lot of doctors and other medical professionals for a while and I have never met a more promiscuous group of people.They live by their own rules and marriage vows appeared to be more of a suggestion than a rule.
I also find it interesting that you believe that because a woman drives a nice car or wears expensive clothes she can be looked on as a gold digger.I know some very wealthy women and they all drive expensive cars and dress well,they don’t need any man to support them financially,they have plenty of money themselves.
I know you and me have had a disagreement in the past but I honestly believe you need to extend your horizons,especially where dating is concerned.Some of the most interesting people you will ever meet have never even been to college but that didn’t stop them from making a lot of money.


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## PigglyWiggly

katiecrna said:


> I had to look it up, it’s a nice car. I would have to test drive it. All I know is that the power behind a bmw feels amazing!


Whatever you get, look for higher torque numbers at lower rpms. Those are the fun cars to drive on the street.


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## ReformedHubby

I am no stranger to high end cars. I have a few but my best one is an Aston Martin. The thing is honestly you can't really worry about it. Just know that a certain percentage of people will judge you because of it. I'm ok with it. I refuse to deny myself the things I want just because it rubs some folks the wrong way. 

With that said I wouldn't think a woman that had nice shoes and a nice car was a gold digger. Don't get me wrong I did date one woman that was well off because her ex husband was a professional athlete, but I didn't see her as a gold digger because she had significant assets. If a woman looks like you can take care of yourself and you have your own place I don't know why someone would think of you as a gold digger. Also, honestly if you're a CRNA you make more than a lot of physicians do anyway.


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## anonmd

katiecrna said:


> Ok so this is hard to explain and might make me look bad but here it does...
> 
> Do I care about money? Yes a little bit. I don’t mind making more money than my partner but I don’t want to make a LOT more. The thing for me is that I am traditional in the since that I want the balance between my relationship to be a certain way.... I don’t want to be the more educated, more money making, better job person in the relationship. And it’s not because I want money it’s because I want a certain relationship/balance. Plus I am attracted to smart men, and I respect educated men. So I will usually only go out with a man with a advance degree. And I work in health care and I’m not saying I need a doctor but it’s nice to date someone that I can talk about my job with and him understand.
> 
> So this guy I went out with I pursued on match. He is a doctor. And he is sensitive to gold diggers and he thought that the only reason why I asked him out was Bc he was a doctor and then when we met he followed up that judgement based on what I was wearing and I could tell that he thought I was a “certain way” if that makes sense.
> 
> It’s hard to explain but I hate feeling judged by people because I have been judged my whole life about stuff like this.


So by your own admission here you are looking for someone with a higher income, kinda 1/2 way to gold digger no? But I make my own money! Well, if your life intentions are to continue with your career, maybe have a kid or two and resume said career, and just be a decent match + or - with a potential mate then that's fine as it goes no further. Such an explanation ought to make sense to most guys. 

If you are looking to quit your job, have 4 kids and spend 20 years at home then we go back to gold digger . The average guy knows he'll be working for 30-40 years, women have choices. I suppose that is changing a bit these days but from what you say it doesn't seem like you are interested in a stay at home dad type dude. 

Only you know that. It is somewhat natural, not too many women go out looking for mediocre men with poor economic prospects if they can get better.


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## Faithful Wife

I have a car that both intimidates and excites men. It is not my daily driver, but the fact that I own it and what they think it may mean to my lifestyle either causes men to be freaked out by the possibilities or excited about them. I’ve had a few dates get clearly uncomfortable about the whole thing and those never called me back. I’ve had a few friends guys kind of act the same. Other guys want a piece of my car more than they are interested in me, and I can read that response too. I avoid those guys.

In the end, a compatible guy for me has his own fun assets, and we can enjoy them together....other guys just will not fit into my life. You should not worry in advance about your car. The right guy for you will also have a great car and will love yours too.


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## katiecrna

Andy1001 said:


> I am not judging you but I would ask you this gently.Do you not think that a doctor should be the last person you should date?
> 
> You allready married one and the expression “Once bitten,twice shy” springs to mind.
> 
> I lived beside a lot of doctors and other medical professionals for a while and I have never met a more promiscuous group of people.They live by their own rules and marriage vows appeared to be more of a suggestion than a rule.
> 
> I also find it interesting that you believe that because a woman drives a nice car or wears expensive clothes she can be looked on as a gold digger.I know some very wealthy women and they all drive expensive cars and dress well,they don’t need any man to support them financially,they have plenty of money themselves.
> 
> I know you and me have had a disagreement in the past but I honestly believe you need to extend your horizons,especially where dating is concerned.Some of the most interesting people you will ever meet have never even been to college but that didn’t stop them from making a lot of money.




I know what your saying and I value your opinion. As far as the doctor thing... I just like them. I respect them, I don’t think they are all bad, and I love what I do and I love medicine and surgery and therefore I love to talk about it. It’s just nice to talk about our days. 

Also my stbxh is a literal sociopath narcissist and a Cardiothoracic surgeon... it’s a little different than the average internal medicine doc not to be rude.

And you have to understand my up bringing and my life to understand why I am sensitive about this and why I think people perceive those that dress really nice gold diggers or whatever. I have been judged by my entire family and put down by my entire family and insulting by my entire family because of the simple fact that I like to look nice and have nice things. It triggers me. Even today my family thinks that I think I am better than everyone. I know it’s their issue but it effects me. I have asked my mom if she wanted to hang out and go to Starbucks and get coffee and her response was... she’s not good enough for Starbucks and me and she can just have regular coffee. Like that’s how they speak to me if I want to do or buy or go out to eat anywhere that isn’t like the cheapest place ever.


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## katiecrna

anonmd said:


> So by your own admission here you are looking for someone with a higher income, kinda 1/2 way to gold digger no? But I make my own money! Well, if your life intentions are to continue with your career, maybe have a kid or two and resume said career, and just be a decent match + or - with a potential mate then that's fine as it goes no further. Such an explanation ought to make sense to most guys.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are looking to quit your job, have 4 kids and spend 20 years at home then we go back to gold digger . The average guy knows he'll be working for 30-40 years, women have choices. I suppose that is changing a bit these days but from what you say it doesn't seem like you are interested in a stay at home dad type dude.
> 
> 
> 
> Only you know that. It is somewhat natural, not too many women go out looking for mediocre men with poor economic prospects if they can get better.




I get what your saying and I think most people think that way. I am attracted to educated men. I would rather date a pediatrician that makes $100,000/yr or a engineer that makes $75,000 than the inventor of some stupid thing like my pillow thats a millionaire but has no education at all. It’s not about the money.


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## Uselessmale

Don’t apologize for anything. I do the same thing you do, you’ve worked hard and earned what you have. Good luck.


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## EllisRedding

katiecrna said:


> I would rather date a pediatrician that makes $100,000/yr or a engineer that makes $75,000 than the inventor of some stupid thing like my pillow thats a millionaire but has no education at all. It’s not about the money.


Definitely wouldn't want an uneducated person who somehow was able to create a product in a marketplace full of thousands of products that stands out and makes tons of money, what a dummy :wink2: Just busting your chops here, but I think it is important to understand that what qualifies as being "educated" will vary from person to person.


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## Andy1001

katiecrna said:


> anonmd said:
> 
> 
> 
> So by your own admission here you are looking for someone with a higher income, kinda 1/2 way to gold digger no? But I make my own money! Well, if your life intentions are to continue with your career, maybe have a kid or two and resume said career, and just be a decent match + or - with a potential mate then that's fine as it goes no further. Such an explanation ought to make sense to most guys.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are looking to quit your job, have 4 kids and spend 20 years at home then we go back to gold digger <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>. The average guy knows he'll be working for 30-40 years, women have choices. I suppose that is changing a bit these days but from what you say it doesn't seem like you are interested in a stay at home dad type dude.
> 
> 
> 
> Only you know that. It is somewhat natural, not too many women go out looking for mediocre men with poor economic prospects if they can get better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I get what your saying and I think most people think that way. I am attracted to educated men. I would rather date a pediatrician that makes $100,000/yr or a engineer that makes $75,000 than the inventor of some stupid thing like my pillow thats a millionaire but has no education at all. It’s not about the money.
Click to expand...

That’s me and you finished before we start so lol. 
Oh! Add another few zeros too.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

No worries. Just be your good character self. And many folks date within their profession and income general window ie Drs are not surprising. Many do not, too, point is either is obviously ok. Each comes with different dynamics but hey that's human nature. 

I understand why but it's unusual a Mom would make the Starbucks comment unless something is deeper there or she was pulling your leg and just doesn't want to go.

Good luck


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## Yeswecan

katiecrna said:


> Ok men... what if you meet this nice girl and you see her car and it’s a really nice sports car? Does this change your opinion about her?
> 
> The reason I’m asking is because I seem to get labeled as a gold digger, or someone who looks like I COULD be one. And I’m super annoyed by this because I like a couple nice things like shoes for example and I can afford shoes. For the record I make my own money and I make good money.
> I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed. So right away his guard was up. For the record, I like the way I dress, and I like what I like. So I need a new car because mine is breaking down and I’m thinking of getting a M4 but don’t know if men will be intimidated by this.


Never mind all of that...if someone called me a gold digger I would stop the car and have them step out. Then continue on my way.


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## anonmd

katiecrna said:


> I get what your saying and I think most people think that way. I am attracted to educated men. I would rather date a pediatrician that makes $100,000/yr or a engineer that makes $75,000 than the inventor of some stupid thing like my pillow thats a millionaire but has no education at all. It’s not about the money.


Just a for the record, when I met my wife she drove a comparatively fancy / expensive (turbo if I remember correctly)Japanese sports car against my almost the cheapest new car you could buy at the time with 70 hp <g>. It was fun at the time to "chase her" on the way home from work...


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## katiecrna

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No worries. Just be your good character self. And many folks date within their profession and income general window ie Drs are not surprising. Many do not, too, point is either is obviously ok. Each comes with different dynamics but hey that's human nature.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand why but it's unusual a Mom would make the Starbucks comment unless something is deeper there or she was pulling your leg and just doesn't want to go.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck




There is something deeper there and that’s the problem. She is so insecure and because I am the most successful one in the family and the only one who cares about normal things and my appearance and whatever... her being around me makes her feel bad about herself like she’s not good enough. She’s super crazy.


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## Rick Blaine

Well, you have a very narrow criteria that points to finding a doctor. To each his or her own. But there is a certain status associated with that and chasing it will get you labeled. You may be triggered by people's perceptions but those perceptions are realities to them, and if it is coming from your own mom you might reflect on how you are presenting yourself to her and others. They probably don't see you as down to earth. If your recent date picked up on this it might have sent up red flags.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

anonmd said:


> Just a for the record, when I met my wife she drove a comparatively fancy / expensive (turbo if I remember correctly)Japanese sports car against my almost the cheapest new car you could buy at the time with 70 hp <g>. It was fun at the time to "chase her" on the way home from work...


But you've got to admit the mypillow guy has some kind of smarts and experience, and courage to act when needed.

For all we know he has a physics degree.....


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## Maxwedge 413

Firstly, I always took a "gold-digger" to be a woman who made her living by dating/marrying wealthy men. They are depicted in movies as flashy bimbos chasing older wealthy men. As you make a good living by your education and work performance, the term gold-digger simply doesn't apply here.

Secondly, when I was growing up my Mom always had a nice sports or sporty car. She worked in Admin at the hospital, and later got her Real Estate License(s), and bought these cars for herself. BMW 3 series(s), a Vette, Miata, Audi, yadda yadda Mom likes nice cars. My sister is the same way. Hell, I am the same way. We like cars. I also like boots and nice (Trap) shotguns. I see nothing negative or "gold-diggery" about wanting and having nice things. It's your money and your life.

If I was dating and the woman rolled up in a sports or muscle/luxury car that would be a big plus for me. I would be much more interested in getting to know a so-so looking gal with fashion sense and a fast car, than I would a gorgeous girl with shabby clothes and a cheap auto. It would be an initial indication that she has style and personality, and that she can take care of herself.

Also, the Alfa Giulio is NO COMPARISON for your M4. It is a nice car and gets good reviews, but you would never be happy in it after your current car. Half the power, love-it or leave-it looks, fewer Alfa dealers for repair and service, etc..


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## uhtred

I think: "that's a nice girl with a nice car". 

Cars can sometimes imply something about someone's sense of style, but I view them as just hints. 

I wouldn't think "gold digger". If the woman is young, I'd assume she it it lucky in startup. If she is older, I'd assume she was a high level manager at some mid-sized company. 

The only time I see nice cars as a negative is if it becomes clear that someone bought a car that they couldn't afford. 

A very expensive car does imply someone who is used to having a lot of money. If I were dating them with an expectation of a long term relationship, I'd try to find out (subtly) if we were financially compatible. 

I have mixed feelings about performance cars. I got one a few years back because they are conceptually cool, but the reality is that where I live there is never an opportunity to actually use that performance. Is the rougher and noisier ride worth the 600hp that you will never be able to use?

I bought a BMW, but then discovered that I couldn't turn off the fake engine noises in sport mode. I fine fake engines sounds aesthetically offensive, and wouldn't buy one again. If I want something similar I'd get an Audi where you can (or at lease could back then) disable the fake sounds. Probably though next time I'll get a Tesla. Not needing to pump gas is a nice advantage and I never drive very far. 

All that said, while a woman with a nice car is a fine think it doesn't hold a candle to a woman with a nice airplane.....









katiecrna said:


> Ok men... what if you meet this nice girl and you see her car and it’s a really nice sports car? Does this change your opinion about her?
> 
> The reason I’m asking is because I seem to get labeled as a gold digger, or someone who looks like I COULD be one. And I’m super annoyed by this because I like a couple nice things like shoes for example and I can afford shoes. For the record I make my own money and I make good money.
> I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed. So right away his guard was up. For the record, I like the way I dress, and I like what I like. So I need a new car because mine is breaking down and I’m thinking of getting a M4 but don’t know if men will be intimidated by this.


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## ReformedHubby

katiecrna said:


> There is something deeper there and that’s the problem. She is so insecure and because I am the most successful one in the family and the only one who cares about normal things and my appearance and whatever... her being around me makes her feel bad about herself like she’s not good enough. She’s super crazy.


Do we have the same life? Asking because as much as people say that success changes you, I've found that it actually changed a lot of people around me. Personal success will reveal those around you that have an inferiority complex. It used to make me feel guilty, but not anymore. Why should I downsize my life to make others feel like we are the same financially. That would be depriving myself. The other thing that gets really really annoying are all the back handed compliments, "nice car, but I would never spend that much money on a car bla, bla, bla". Or they will point out some random billionaire like Warren Buffet...."He still drives an old Volvo, bla, bla, bla". Its honestly a form of shaming. I wouldn't buy into it if I were you. Live your best life. I am not willing to compromise and fake humble just because so many people are insecure.

On a side note even though I am separated I bought my wife a Porsche for Christmas, she is the mother of my kids, figured she earned it. She shared with me that one of her Match dates was intimidated by it.....she started driving her Volvo instead...


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## Fozzy

Just for clarity--did this guy actually SAY he was worried about you being a gold-digger? Or did you infer it from something during the date?


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## EllisRedding

Fozzy said:


> Just for clarity--did this guy actually SAY he was worried about you being a gold-digger? Or did you infer it from something during the date?


Imagine if at the start of the date he actually said "Wow, you look like a gold digger." lol


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## Fozzy

EllisRedding said:


> Imagine if at the start of the date he actually said "Wow, you look like a gold digger." lol


I've said dumber things to women.


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## 23cm

john117 said:


> M4 says "dress to impress". Make it an Alfa Romeo Giulia - cheaper too - and it says a different mindset altogether.


Yeah, it says "I'm looking to date a mechanic."


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## Rowan

The issues with your family/parents are not uncommon. You see it fairly often when someone comes from a lower income and/or less educated family. The family just see that the person who went out and bettered themselves to get an education and a good job as someone who wanted "better". The message to the family is that if that individual wanted to better themselves, then the family/community they came from must not be good enough for their tastes. They take it as a slight - as if you think you're better than they are. And will be nasty about it because they do feel slighted. If you've had a calm conversation about this issue with your family, and they still can't find a way to be at least cordial, if not actually happy for you, then you may just need to get a bit of distance. There's no need to interact more than absolutely necessary - or at all, depending on how bad things are - with people who continually make efforts to be unpleasant to you. Even if those people are family. 


The response you're getting from dates, however, probably has much more to do with how you dress and style yourself than with any car you might drive. If that's happening frequently, then you have a couple of options. You can choose to tone down your look, go for somewhat more conservative clothing and shoe choices, less makeup, smaller jewelry, etc.. Or, you could understand that your personal style decisions might give some people the wrong first impression, decide that you're happy with your personal style anyway, and just choose not to worry about it. 

Get the car you want to drive and can afford. Your car alone, or even primarily, isn't going to give people the first impression that you might be a gold digger. The totality of the way you present yourself might. If you're unhappy about that, then you can choose to change your personal style. Or not. It's entirely up to you.


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## PigglyWiggly

I wouldn't say you were a gold digger just that I don't meet your requirements.


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## uhtred

I think it can do either, both or neither. 

Sometimes people act in unthinking ways. I've tried to gently tell my wife that her facebook pictures from fancy hotels are not really a very polite thing to post of FB. Scenery is probably OK, but "here is the view from our balcony at the Bora Bora Four Seasons", seems like showing off.

Other things are trickier. Some of our hobbies / interests are expensive. Is it OK to talk about flying planes? (like most pilots I love to talk about it). Or general travel?

On the other side, I've seen friends behave terribly around someone who has suddenly made a ton of money. It went as far as someone actually asking for investment capital at a social meeting. 





ReformedHubby said:


> Do we have the same life? Asking because as much as people say that success changes you, I've found that it actually changed a lot of people around me.
> 
> snip
> .


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## wilson

I wouldn't think "gold-digger", but I would think "high-maintenance". That's not necessarily a bad thing, but there are certain implications. If I like my women to always look sharp and styling, that would be the kind of woman I would pursue. But if my preference is to hang around the house or go camping, I would probably not be interested. Having expensive tastes would imply the reasonable assumptions around that, which is that you prefer a more expensive lifestyle. That's either beneficial or not depending on whether he also prefers that lifestyle.

I would think of a woman as a gold-digger if she had expensive trappings which were well beyond her lifestyle. Like if she's a part-time cashier but has designer clothes and accessories, that would give the impression of a woman who's looking for someone to fund her lifestyle rather than trying to find a life partner.


----------



## ReformedHubby

uhtred said:


> I think it can do either, both or neither.
> 
> Sometimes people act in unthinking ways. I've tried to gently tell my wife that her facebook pictures from fancy hotels are not really a very polite thing to post of FB. Scenery is probably OK, but "here is the view from our balcony at the Bora Bora Four Seasons", seems like showing off.
> 
> Other things are trickier. Some of our hobbies / interests are expensive. Is it OK to talk about flying planes? (like most pilots I love to talk about it). Or general travel?
> 
> On the other side, I've seen friends behave terribly around someone who has suddenly made a ton of money. It went as far as someone actually asking for investment capital at a social meeting.


You are 100 percent correct...it can go both ways. There are those successful folks that like rubbing it in people's faces. They are jerks IMO. I can only assume encountering people like that would make one assume that other fortunate people are similar....

P.S. You staying at the Four Seasons in Bora Bora makes me feel inferior and jealous :rofl:


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## sa58

There is nothing wrong with buying the things that
you like. Nice car, nice clothes etc. You worked hard
for your education and success. You have the right to
live as you chose. My wife is very well educated and
very independent. Those are two of the many qualities
that attracted me to her. We are both educated in different fields,
and share our experiences together. 30 + years and still going
strong.

Since your stbxh is a doctor that may scare a few doctors
away. You may appear to be simply looking for a replacement
for your stbex. You could appear to be looking for a certain
status or something else. I am not saying you are doing this,
but to some it might appear that way. You did say you pursued 
him didn't you? I am not sure if anyone said it, but the medical 
profession ranks high for infidelity. Long hours and stress can
destroy a relationship. That can be scary for some people also.

As far a being a gold digger a good prenup can often take care of that.
If you are very successful you may want one yourself. I would suggest 
you get divorced completely first. Date successful men from other fields
after that. Do not pursue to hard you could appear desperate and needy.

Since you will be divorced once take your time . Pick someone very special
this time. Someone who loves you for you. They seem hard to find these days.

Wishing you the best.


----------



## Wolf1974

I may be a bit unique for American culture but I don’t really care about money. I am in the middle class and that’s just fine with me. I have a truck and house but don’t live in a gated community. I dont have problems with gold diggers because they would be wasting their time with me lol

Maybe because I don’t care about money I don’t really care what kind of career a woman has or what kind of car she drives so long as she takes care of it. For you OP I would say just be you and don’t worry about others perceptions. We can only control what we do not what others think we do. Live your life.


----------



## Faithful Wife

uhtred said:


> I think it can do either, both or neither.
> 
> Sometimes people act in unthinking ways. I've tried to gently tell my wife that her facebook pictures from fancy hotels are not really a very polite thing to post of FB. Scenery is probably OK, but "here is the view from our balcony at the Bora Bora Four Seasons", seems like showing off.
> 
> Other things are trickier. Some of our hobbies / interests are expensive. Is it OK to talk about flying planes? (like most pilots I love to talk about it). Or general travel?
> 
> On the other side, I've seen friends behave terribly around someone who has suddenly made a ton of money. It went as far as someone actually asking for investment capital at a social meeting.


I think it is ok for wealthy people to talk about the things they enjoy, even if that may include things others will never experience. It is fun for me to see what my wealthy friends get up to, and even if I do feel envy, it is not anything against them as people. It is just that I wish for those things too ... however, I feel that by seeing and hearing about it, I am getting value out of it by how it helps me raise my own life goals!

I've also known wealthy people who live like misers, and that just makes me sad for them. Why not live life to the fullest?!


----------



## 269370

katiecrna said:


> Ok men... what if you meet this nice girl and you see her car and it’s a really nice sports car? Does this change your opinion about her?



I would think: “Nice divorce settlement!”

Kidding. Would make absolutely no difference.
It’s about the whole picture. Get what you want and do as you like and don’t worry what anyone thinks about it. Because it’s about you and not about them.



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## 269370

katiecrna said:


> Ok so this is hard to explain and might make me look bad but here it does...
> 
> Do I care about money? Yes a little bit. I don’t mind making more money than my partner but I don’t want to make a LOT more. The thing for me is that I am traditional in the since that I want the balance between my relationship to be a certain way.... I don’t want to be the more educated, more money making, better job person in the relationship. And it’s not because I want money it’s because I want a certain relationship/balance. Plus I am attracted to smart men, and I respect educated men. So I will usually only go out with a man with a advance degree. And I work in health care and I’m not saying I need a doctor but it’s nice to date someone that I can talk about my job with and him understand.
> 
> So this guy I went out with I pursued on match. He is a doctor. And he is sensitive to gold diggers and he thought that the only reason why I asked him out was Bc he was a doctor and then when we met he followed up that judgement based on what I was wearing and I could tell that he thought I was a “certain way” if that makes sense.
> 
> It’s hard to explain but I hate feeling judged by people because I have been judged my whole life about stuff like this.




What did he say to make you feel that way? It could be imagined, especially since you said that feel you have been judged that way your whole life. You should try and stop feeling judged, if you can, and just be yourself. Then you might notice that suddenly people don’t judge you anymore.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Faithful Wife said:


> I think it is ok for wealthy people to talk about the things they enjoy, even if that may include things others will never experience. It is fun for me to see what my wealthy friends get up to, and even if I do feel envy, it is not anything against them as people. It is just that I wish for those things too ... however, I feel that by seeing and hearing about it, I am getting value out of it by how it helps me raise my own life goals!
> 
> *I've also known wealthy people who live like misers*, and that just makes me sad for them. Why not live life to the fullest?!


Contrary to popular belief, most wealthy weren't born into it. The vast majority of American millionaires built their wealth slowly and steadily by deliberate action and sacrifice over a long period of time. 

The thing is, after so many years of frugality, it can be hard to break out of that habit, once you've "arrived." It was for my wife and I. When people would try to sell me something by saying "you can certainly afford it" I would respond by saying "we didn't get to where we can afford nice things by buying nice things!" 

We have broken out fairly well and let our financial hair down a bit. Three weeks in France wasn't cheap! But for the most part, we still live a relatively modest lifestyle. The thing is, at this point in life, we realize stuff is just stuff. It isn't part of a full life, at least not to us. And stuff requires care and maintenance, all of which could be put into _living _rather than merely _having_. And after having gone without so many things all those years, one realizes those things are not necessary. There are exceptions. For instance, she'll agonize about should I get this skirt of that dress. I'll tell her straight up "you look hot in both... get 'em both!" We can afford it and I benefit as well! But to the outside observer, including pretty much all of my wife's social circle who are largely wealthy and indulgent, it appears we live the life of paupers when we really feel like we're living it up!


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## PigglyWiggly

Bora Bora 4 seasons...NICE! That is one of my dream vacations. I am envious but proud for you at the same time.


----------



## uhtred

I slightly obfuscate data to reduce the chance of being recognized, general idea is right, but not specifically the bora bora 4-seasons. 

(I can PM with details of a couple of really nice places if you like to travel, just don't want to post on an open forum). 





ReformedHubby said:


> You are 100 percent correct...it can go both ways. There are those successful folks that like rubbing it in people's faces. They are jerks IMO. I can only assume encountering people like that would make one assume that other fortunate people are similar....
> 
> P.S. You staying at the Four Seasons in Bora Bora makes me feel inferior and jealous :rofl:


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

katiecrna said:


> I get what your saying and I think most people think that way. I am attracted to educated men. I would rather date a pediatrician that makes $100,000/yr or a engineer that makes $75,000 than the inventor of some stupid thing like my pillow thats a millionaire but has no education at all. It’s not about the money.


What about a man that has 4 degrees, but hasn't worked in 20 years? Because if interested, he is looking for a woman that can support him. He will kick your butt in jeopardy too!


----------



## PigglyWiggly

uhtred said:


> I slightly obfuscate data to reduce the chance of being recognized, general idea is right, but not specifically the bora bora 4-seasons.
> 
> (I can PM with details of a couple of really nice places if you like to travel, just don't want to post on an open forum).


My friend is Director of Finance for 4 seasons hotels and resorts. As such, she travels a LOT to different 4 seasons. She just posted this from 4 season Maldives


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## john117

katiecrna said:


> I had to look it up, it’s a nice car. I would have to test drive it. All I know is that the power behind a bmw feels amazing!


Please compare interiors... My s-wife has an x3 and I have a Mini Cooper S so we're well versed in BMW-ese, but the Alfa is very nice and very, as we say, emotional. 

The coming 2 door Giulieta (I think) is outright amazing looking, clearly with inspiration from the 1960s or so Alfas.


----------



## katiecrna

Fozzy said:


> Just for clarity--did this guy actually SAY he was worried about you being a gold-digger? Or did you infer it from something during the date?




He did not say that, but he made it obvious. 

Before we met, when we were talking he mentioned how other nurses he tried dating were all gold diggers and just wanted to be a doctors wife. Then when he found out that my stbxh is a doctor he was suspicious. He asked me if I went to nursing school to be a doctors wife, and when I explained my situation and said no he was like yea I’m sure...

When we met, again he brought up gold diggers and specifically said that he does not want a gold digger and he wants a independent women. And I felt like he was testing me.... like within 10 mins of our date he told me how much he will make, and he said his attending has a mcclaren and all this stuff and I was like um.. I don’t care. I can tell he was testing to see my reaction.


----------



## uhtred

I've never understood the hollywood idea that multiple degrees is a good thing: "He has 2 PhDs he is a real expert!" . God, why would someone go back to grad school once they escaped. The normal path is PhD, Post Doc, Tenure track, full professor if you are going the academic route. If industry, then education normally stops at a PhD. 

Sometimes people pick up an extra degree along the way because they realize that they are very close to meeting the requirements anyway due to electives, but intentionally collecting degrees seems like insanity. A PhD program is pretty close to indentured servitude, not something anyone should want to extend. 






UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What about a man that has 4 degrees, but hasn't worked in 20 years? Because if interested, he is looking for a woman that can support him. He will kick your butt in jeopardy too!


----------



## Adelais

katiecrna, as I read your posts I began thinking that you are actually dating below you.

So what if he is a Dr.? If he is threatened by you because he thinks that you are a gold digger, then perhaps he doesn't think he has enough money to share, or confidence that the two of you can work out your finances.

The right man will either have so much money that he isn't worried about sharing it with you, or he will have enough money of his own and enough confidence in himself that he isn't bothered by your tastes in clothes and cars. If you are able to afford that on your own, what does he care? If the two of you decided to marry, he can lock his money down and let you split shared expenses 50/50 while you spend (or save??) your excess $ the way you want.

But then again, your clothes and cars might be shouting, "I'm materialistic!" which could turn off a lot of men, whether they have money or not. I had a friend in high school who was very materialistic. She loved to wear clothes of certain brand names, just because the brand meant money. She would see something and say, "Oh, that's a Gucci!" My response to her was, "It fits and wears just like any other. Besides, it's ugly and overpriced!" 

My husband likes nice clothes of certain brands. He has been known to remove the logo from a shirt, because he hates to be a walking billboard or look like he is "brand bragging." I would remove the logo off my Salvatore Ferragamo wallet (it was a gift from my husband) if I could do it without ruining it. But I don't really need to worry about it, since in my social circles no one would know the name or the retail price.

I also know people who are "Earthy" and brand conscious. They spend a lot of money on sold by REI and have expensive brands of bicycles. Whether one dresses right out of the Town and Country magazine or the REI magazine, it is shallow and wasteful unless one is actually wealthy.

Do you just like to dress cute, or are you into being flashy while showing off brands?


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## 269370

katiecrna said:


> I get what your saying and I think most people think that way. I am attracted to educated men. I would rather date a pediatrician that makes $100,000/yr or a engineer that makes $75,000 than the inventor of some stupid thing like my pillow thats a millionaire but has no education at all. It’s not about the money.




I would be very concerned if the person who made my pillow had no education...It might even give me nightmares! 


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## Adelais

katiecrna said:


> And it bothers me because what’s wrong with liking nice things If you don’t go overboard. I don’t have kids, I’m not married and this is the youngest and hottest I’ll ever be so I’m going to enjoy myself. It bothers me that men like “watch out” for women like me. When I don’t think it’s bad if I make my own money.


Going overboard is a relative term. What is overboard for one person isn't for another.

You like to spend your $ on things. Other people would rather wear less expensive clothes and drive a clunker, while they spend on travel, or paying down their home, or their favorite hobby.

They might actually be "watching out" for you because they see that you are a spender and not a saver. You aren't using your money on life experiences or things that will secure your future in the long term. Some people really want to retire someday, so they work hard and are frugal while they are young. People who aren't millionaires, and who spend all they have on things and aren't saving for retirement will be dependent on the one who did save...or they will always have to work.


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## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> That’s me and you finished before we start so lol.
> Oh! Add another few zeros too.




Surely you meant zeroes? 


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## happyhusband0005

katiecrna said:


> Ok so this is hard to explain and might make me look bad but here it does...
> 
> Do I care about money? Yes a little bit. I don’t mind making more money than my partner but I don’t want to make a LOT more. The thing for me is that I am traditional in the since that I want the balance between my relationship to be a certain way.... I don’t want to be the more educated, more money making, better job person in the relationship. And it’s not because I want money it’s because I want a certain relationship/balance. Plus I am attracted to smart men, and I respect educated men. So I will usually only go out with a man with a advance degree. And I work in health care and I’m not saying I need a doctor but it’s nice to date someone that I can talk about my job with and him understand.
> 
> So this guy I went out with I pursued on match. He is a doctor. And he is sensitive to gold diggers and he thought that the only reason why I asked him out was Bc he was a doctor and then when we met he followed up that judgement based on what I was wearing and I could tell that he thought I was a “certain way” if that makes sense.
> 
> It’s hard to explain but I hate feeling judged by people because I have been judged my whole life about stuff like this.


Just focus on being who you are and pursue men you are attracted to. You know you're not a gold digger, but you also know you want a guy who also makes good money. I think that is totally fine and very normal. I also think for better or worse some guys who don't make decent money and are not well educated would be intimidated being in relationship with you, some wouldn't be phased by it. But you know what you are looking for so stick with that. 

From my perspective if I found myself back dating I think I would probably question if some women wanted me for my money and would probably have my guard up a little, so I would probably actively seek women who made good money themselves, but I am also attracted to smart successful women in general.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

uhtred said:


> I've never understood the hollywood idea that multiple degrees is a good thing: "He has 2 PhDs he is a real expert!" . God, why would someone go back to grad school once they escaped. The normal path is PhD, Post Doc, Tenure track, full professor if you are going the academic route. If industry, then education normally stops at a PhD.
> 
> Sometimes people pick up an extra degree along the way because they realize that they are very close to meeting the requirements anyway due to electives, but intentionally collecting degrees seems like insanity. A PhD program is pretty close to indentured servitude, not something anyone should want to extend.


Well, he doesn't have any useful degrees. Mostly Liberal Arts degrees. He drinks wine, acts snooty and sponges off his parents. But if educated is what you want, he is your guy!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Contrary to popular belief, most wealthy weren't born into it. The vast majority of American millionaires built their wealth slowly and steadily by deliberate action and sacrifice over a long period of time.
> 
> The thing is, after so many years of frugality, it can be hard to break out of that habit, once you've "arrived." It was for my wife and I. When people would try to sell me something by saying "you can certainly afford it" I would respond by saying "we didn't get to where we can afford nice things by buying nice things!"
> 
> We have broken out fairly well and let our financial hair down a bit. Three weeks in France wasn't cheap! But for the most part, we still live a relatively modest lifestyle. The thing is, at this point in life, we realize stuff is just stuff. It isn't part of a full life, at least not to us. And stuff requires care and maintenance, all of which could be put into _living _rather than merely _having_. And after having gone without so many things all those years, one realizes those things are not necessary. There are exceptions. For instance, she'll agonize about should I get this skirt of that dress. I'll tell her straight up "you look hot in both... get 'em both!" We can afford it and I benefit as well! But to the outside observer, including pretty much all of my wife's social circle who are largely wealthy and indulgent, it appears we live the life of paupers when we really feel like we're living it up!


I totally get this, but I meant like literal misers.

Such as, will not buy their kid an ice cream cone, like ever in their entire lives, because a gallon of ice cream is cheaper than one cone at a (free, of course) baseball game.

Such as, literally still dives in dumpsters for bottles and cans worth a nickle a piece.

There was only one person I knew like this - - obviously this is some kind of disorder/mental illness going on. This man both inherited money and then made a lot on his own merits (tens of millions probably).

I knew a few others that were true misers but not quite to that guy's extent.

I also know a lot of "millionaires next door" such as yourself. My BFF is one of those, and she drives a company car which is boring and totally unsexy, even though she could get a sexy car and only drive it sometimes, the money spent isn't worth it to her. She would rather invest that money and hope to triple it by the time she retires and she's just happy she gets a "free car" no matter what it looks like. She does take vacations and sometimes buys designer shoes and hand bags, but that's the only extravagance she ever has.

And I know one self made millionaire who loves to flaunt his money, literally wears ties with dollar bills on them, lives in a mansion, belongs to several country clubs, etc. This type of guy would normally make me cringe, but the way he does it, he comes off like a cartoon character Mr. Money Bags, and he is endearing somehow.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

So, can nurses affort BMW's? I mean actually afford a BMW? Maybe after a nice divorce settlement from a rich Surgeon?


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## 269370

PigglyWiggly said:


> Bora Bora 4 seasons...NICE! That is one of my dream vacations. I am envious but proud for you at the same time.



We liked Seychelles 4 Seasons better


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## Andy1001

uhtred said:


> I've never understood the hollywood idea that multiple degrees is a good thing: "He has 2 PhDs he is a real expert!" . God, why would someone go back to grad school once they escaped. The normal path is PhD, Post Doc, Tenure track, full professor if you are going the academic route. If industry, then education normally stops at a PhD.
> 
> Sometimes people pick up an extra degree along the way because they realize that they are very close to meeting the requirements anyway due to electives, but intentionally collecting degrees seems like insanity. A PhD program is pretty close to indentured servitude, not something anyone should want to extend.


There is a saying “Never trust an economist with a PhD”.Its simply because the investment in time and money is very rarely made up in financial compensation.
I have often discussed this with john17 about this seemingly American need for enough educational certifications to paper an average wall.Before anyone points out I know John is European.
If you are making big bucks at the first attempt then why the need for more degrees,masters etc.


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## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> If you are making big bucks at the first attempt then why the need for more degrees,masters etc.



So you know how to spend it wisely, still enjoy life and not run out of it quickly? (And do a Nicholas Cage: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cnb...once-blew-his-entire-150-million-fortune.html )



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## Faithful Wife

PigglyWiggly said:


> My friend is Director of Finance for 4 seasons hotels and resorts. As such, she travels a LOT to different 4 seasons. She just posted this from 4 season Maldives


Heartbreaking that this will be under water in a decade.


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## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> Do you just like to dress cute, or are you into being flashy while showing off brands?




Ok so I dress very simple, plain, and classy. I am not flashy at all. I’ll post pics down below...


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## katiecrna




----------



## uhtred

We haven't been to the Seychelles, but have thought seriously about it. We don't snorkel, but like kayaking on reefs. Is it good for that? We are mostly mountain people not beach people, but occasionally do beach resort trips. 

For mountains, can't beat Wengen. 





inmyprime said:


> We liked Seychelles 4 Seasons better
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred

Not quite the same though. Economics is a very complex field and a reasonable place to get a PhD if you are planning to go into academia. I wouldn't expect someone to have multiple PhDs. 

In general getting a PhD isn't about financial compensation. I don't work the job that would earn me the most money, I work a job that pays quite well and which I enjoy. 



Andy1001 said:


> There is a saying “Never trust an economist with a PhD”.Its simply because the investment in time and money is very rarely made up in financial compensation.
> I have often discussed this with john17 about this seemingly American need for enough educational certifications to paper an average wall.Before anyone points out I know John is European.
> If you are making big bucks at the first attempt then why the need for more degrees,masters etc.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So, can nurses affort BMW's? I mean actually afford a BMW? Maybe after a nice divorce settlement from a rich Surgeon?


Dude, really? Was this a joke? Or do you just honestly not know these things?

https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...-50-states-montana-tops-the-list-at-243k.html

"On average, certified registered nurse anesthetists in the U.S. make $160,250 annually, but CRNAs in some states make much more than the mean annual wage, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

For instance, CRNAs in Montana earn the highest average salary of CRNAs in the U.S. at $243,550. New Hampshire came in second at $217,560 followed by Wyoming, Wisconsin and California rounding out the top five."


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## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> We liked Seychelles 4 Seasons better
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you want to stay in the finest hotel in the world then head to Marrakech in Morocco.The Royal Mansour is the best hotel I have ever stayed in,and for a number of years I lived in hotels all over Europe and Asia.


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## katiecrna

Faithful Wife said:


> Dude, really? Was this a joke? Or do you just honestly not know these things?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...-50-states-montana-tops-the-list-at-243k.html
> 
> 
> 
> "On average, certified registered nurse anesthetists in the U.S. make $160,250 annually, but CRNAs in some states make much more than the mean annual wage, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> 
> 
> 
> For instance, CRNAs in Montana earn the highest average salary of CRNAs in the U.S. at $243,550. New Hampshire came in second at $217,560 followed by Wyoming, Wisconsin and California rounding out the top five."




AND at least for me, that is for a 40 hr work week, so most of the crnas I work with have a second per diem job to pick up more money.


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## 269370

uhtred said:


> We haven't been to the Seychelles, but have thought seriously about it. We don't snorkel, but like kayaking on reefs. Is it good for that? We are mostly mountain people not beach people, but occasionally do beach resort trips.
> 
> 
> 
> For mountains, can't beat Wengen.




We aren’t beach people either but with 3 small kids, hiking is difficult, unless we leave them behind somewhere. Seychelles 4S was definitely one of the best resorts and has a bit of everything. St Lucia (Sugar Beach) is close. For mountains: depends how far you are willing to travel but New Zealand is difficult to top. I hope when kids grow up soon, we can do the more adventurous stuff again.
I got a bit fed up with these resorts for a while and found simple hiking/wild camping was also enjoyable. But wouldn’t do for more than couple of days...(I do like to take a shower once in a while).

We should have a travel thread and talk about destinations!


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> Dude, really? Was this a joke? Or do you just honestly not know these things?
> 
> https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...-50-states-montana-tops-the-list-at-243k.html
> 
> "On average, certified registered nurse anesthetists in the U.S. make $160,250 annually, but CRNAs in some states make much more than the mean annual wage, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> 
> For instance, CRNAs in Montana earn the highest average salary of CRNAs in the U.S. at $243,550. New Hampshire came in second at $217,560 followed by Wyoming, Wisconsin and California rounding out the top five."


I don't know, should I know what CRNA's make? She said she was a nurse, so I was thinking she was a run of the mill $60k/yr nurse. Most nurse I know don't drive BMW's. But since she can afford it, then that obviously doesn't make her a gold digger. Maybe just high maintenance, atleast that is what I'd think if I seen her driving one.


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## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> Dude, really? Was this a joke? Or do you just honestly not know these things?
> 
> https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...-50-states-montana-tops-the-list-at-243k.html
> 
> "On average, certified registered nurse anesthetists in the U.S. make $160,250 annually, but CRNAs in some states make much more than the mean annual wage, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> 
> For instance, CRNAs in Montana earn the highest average salary of CRNAs in the U.S. at $243,550. New Hampshire came in second at $217,560 followed by Wyoming, Wisconsin and California rounding out the top five."


I have to assume (or hope!) it was a sarcastic comment / joke??? Nurses can make good money (my wife was a nurse / nurse manager and within her first 5 years out of school and working was at just under 6 figures, until she became a SAH). Plus, thanks to leasing many luxury cars are much more affordable. 

Here is the funny thing. Someone driving around in a BMW and people may assume this person is loaded for driving around in such an "expensive car". However, the same person could be driving around in a full size SUV which could cost as much if not more than some of the BMWs, and no one would think otherwise about that person (just finished shopping for full sized SUVs, amazing the prices on many of those lol).


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## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> If you want to stay in the finest hotel in the world then head to Marrakech in Morocco.The Royal Mansour is the best hotel I have ever stayed in,and for a number of years I lived in hotels all over Europe and Asia.



Been there. Seychelles still better 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## katiecrna

EllisRedding said:


> I have to assume (or hope!) it was a sarcastic comment / joke??? Nurses can make good money (my wife was a nurse / nurse manager and within her first 5 years out of school and working was at just under 6 figures, until she became a SAH). Plus, thanks to leasing many luxury cars are much more affordable.
> 
> Here is the funny thing. Someone driving around in a BMW and people may assume this person is loaded for driving around in such an "expensive car". However, the same person could be driving around in a full size SUV which could cost as much if not more than some of the BMWs, and no one would think otherwise about that person (just finished shopping for full sized SUVs, amazing the prices on many of those lol).




Yes yes yes!!! Thank you!!


----------



## EleGirl

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But you've got to admit the mypillow guy has some kind of smarts and experience, and courage to act when needed.
> 
> For all we know he has a physics degree.....


Nope, he is a college dropout (after 1 quarter), ex cocaine/meth addict and did a lot of things before he became rich on pillow.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/20/how...om-crack-addict-to-self-made-millionaire.html

I'm not sure he'd make a good partner, the ex drug user thing is scary. The money does not make up for it.


----------



## katiecrna

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So, can nurses affort BMW's? I mean actually afford a BMW? Maybe after a nice divorce settlement from a rich Surgeon?




And for your information I am getting nothing from my husband... and I supported him through medical school, and residency. He completely screwed me over financially.


----------



## Ms. GP

This guy either wasn't listening when you told him what you did for a living (red flag) or is a moron (also red flag). 😉

An RN shows up on a date in Manolo Blahnick shoes might be a cause for concern but not a CRNA without children. 

For the record, I wanted to be a CRNA but didn't have the stomach for it! Lol. Went to pharmacy school instead. I married an engineer so believe me I get the attracted to intelligence thing. It's cool because we both have complentary strengths. No competition. We kick butt as a trivial pursuit team, and between the two of us we can figure out any and all kid homework! Lol

Also you have great taste in clothes!! I would totally wear all of those outfits too!! Stop worrying what some probably self absorbed moron thinks. If your gonna internet date, your gonna have to deal with lots of rejection. Be yourself. The right guy will appreciate you.


----------



## Laurentium

Personally if I dated someone with an expensive car, it might put me off. I don't own a car, and from when I did, I remember them as a constant money-pit and pain in the neck. It wouldn't make me think "gold digger" but it might make me think "poor judgement" -- but that's just me. 



katiecrna said:


> I am traditional in the since that I want the balance between my relationship to be a certain way.... I don’t want to be the more educated, more money making, better job person in the relationship. And it’s not because I want money it’s because I want a certain relationship/balance.


Okay, that makes sense ... so what's your half of the balance? 



> It’s hard to explain but I hate feeling judged by people because I have been judged my whole life about stuff like this.


Yeah. When dating, or in life in general, people have to form a judgement of you... but not in THAT way. 



katiecrna said:


> I have been judged by my entire family and put down by my entire family and insulting by my entire family because of the simple fact that I like to look nice and have nice things. It triggers me. Even today *my family thinks that I think* I am better than everyone.


Oh, you and your fancy-pants "starbucks". Why can't you just lick up water from puddles in the street, it was good enough for us! 

No really, that mind-reading thing sucks, and I have a lot of sympathy because I got a lot of the same. 
But do realise that people who are not from your family, do not generally suffer from this delusion.


----------



## happyhusband0005

ReformedHubby said:


> Do we have the same life? Asking because as much as people say that success changes you, I've found that it actually changed a lot of people around me. Personal success will reveal those around you that have an inferiority complex. It used to make me feel guilty, but not anymore. Why should I downsize my life to make others feel like we are the same financially. That would be depriving myself. The other thing that gets really really annoying are all the back handed compliments, "nice car, but I would never spend that much money on a car bla, bla, bla". Or they will point out some random billionaire like Warren Buffet...."He still drives an old Volvo, bla, bla, bla". Its honestly a form of shaming. I wouldn't buy into it if I were you. Live your best life. I am not willing to compromise and fake humble just because so many people are insecure.
> 
> On a side note even though I am separated I bought my wife a Porsche for Christmas, she is the mother of my kids, figured she earned it. She shared with me that one of her Match dates was intimidated by it.....she started driving her Volvo instead...


I so agree with this. I lost some of my best friends when I started making real money. I din't realize it at first, but I stopped getting invited to things and then would see the group went away for the weekend and never mentioned it to me. After some time I asked what was up and the one I was closest with, we were each others best men at our weddings, told me they assumed I wouldn't want to stay at the place they were staying etc. Then I realized the change happened after I took the three friends to Whistler for a ski trip and paid for the whole thing. I guess that made them uncomfortable and made them think I wouldn't be interested in going away with them and staying in a standard motel down the street from the resort instead of a 5 star slope side place. 

The simple truth is some people are just weird about money.


----------



## katiecrna

Ms. GP said:


> This guy either wasn't listening when you told him what you did for a living (red flag) or is a moron (also red flag).
> 
> 
> 
> An RN shows up on a date in Manolo Blahnick shoes might be a cause for concern but not a CRNA without children.
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, I wanted to be a CRNA but didn't have the stomach for it! Lol. Went to pharmacy school instead. I married an engineer so believe me I get the attracted to intelligence thing. It's cool because we both have complentary strengths. No competition. We kick butt as a trivial pursuit team, and between the two of us we can figure out any and all kid homework! Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Also you have great taste in clothes!! I would totally wear all of those outfits too!! Stop worrying what some probably self absorbed moron thinks. If your gonna internet date, your gonna have to deal with lots of rejection. Be yourself. The right guy will appreciate you.




Thanks


----------



## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> Been there. Seychelles still better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I didn’t give you permission to take a picture of my yacht.
Or my island!


----------



## Adelais

Andy1001 said:


> That’s me and you finished before we start so lol.
> Oh! Add another few zeros too.





inmyprime said:


> Surely you meant zeroes?





Andy1001 said:


> That’s me and you finished before we start so lol.
> Oh! Add another few zeros too.


Actually Andy was correct, unless you are thinking he is using zero as a verb.

https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/61529/zero-zeros-or-zeroes


----------



## katiecrna

Laurentium said:


> Personally if I dated someone with an expensive car, it might put me off. I don't own a car, and from when I did, I remember them as a constant money-pit and pain in the neck. It wouldn't make me think "gold digger" but it might make me think "poor judgement" -- but that's just me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, that makes sense ... so what's your half of the balance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. When dating, or in life in general, people have to form a judgement of you... but not in THAT way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you and your fancy-pants "starbucks". Why can't you just lick up water from puddles in the street, it was good enough for us!
> 
> 
> 
> No really, that mind-reading thing sucks, and I have a lot of sympathy because I got a lot of the same.
> 
> But do realise that people who are not from your family, do not generally suffer from this delusion.




My half of the balance.... 
let’s just say that I expect from my man what I do. Educated, a good job, a nice dresser, I workout and have a nice body. When in a serious relationship... I tend to be traditional... meaning I like to cook and clean, and take care of my man in old fashion ways. Do his laundry. So I guess that’s my half.


----------



## Rowan

katiecrna said:


> He did not say that, but he made it obvious.
> 
> * Before we met, when we were talking he mentioned how other nurses he tried dating were all gold diggers and just wanted to be a doctors wife. Then when he found out that my stbxh is a doctor he was suspicious. He asked me if I went to nursing school to be a doctors wife, and when I explained my situation and said no he was like yea I’m sure...
> 
> When we met, again he brought up gold diggers and specifically said that he does not want a gold digger and he wants a independent women.* And I felt like he was testing me.... like within 10 mins of our date he told me how much he will make, and he said his attending has a mcclaren and all this stuff and I was like um.. I don’t care. I can tell he was testing to see my reaction.



I'm curious why you even went on a date with this man? He was already putting off the bitter/angry vibe when you were just chatting, before you even went out. Him complaining that all the nurses he dated were gold diggers is the equivalent of a man telling you that every one of his exes are "crazy". It's a red flag. Because it's an indication that the guy is some combination of lying about his relationship history to make himself look better, completely lacking in self-awareness and the ability to own his contributions to his prior relationship failures, and/or has a broken picker that speaks to some issues you'd probably rather not have to deal with. 

Honestly, I probably wouldn't have gotten as far as dinner with this guy after he expressed suspicion about my motives so openly. This is a man who didn't mind letting you know he thought you were probably a gold digging tramp, and pretty much called you a liar regarding the end of your marriage, but wanted to date you even though he thought that. Think about that a minute and let it sink in. Why would you even want to date someone who thought that about you _and_ didn't mind letting you know it? And the "testing" you with the humble-brags? Yeah, this man has issues. Whether it's with nurses, or with women in general, he has some issues that don't point to him being 100% ready to be an emotionally healthy partner in an emotionally healthy relationship. Next!


----------



## Laurentium

katiecrna said:


> My half of the balance....
> let’s just say that I expect from my man what I do. Educated, a good job, a nice dresser, I workout and have a nice body. When in a serious relationship... I tend to be traditional... meaning I like to cook and clean, and take care of my man in old fashion ways. Do his laundry. So I guess that’s my half.


Dang. I like to do my own laundry and cook. I guess we are not compatible. (kidding) But seriously that sounds like a deal that many men might go for.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I didn't read everything, but I tend to see a common thing in these threads where single ladies are asking for advice. That is a serious lack of confidence. It manifests itself in threads like this. Here's a little secret ladies, as much as women like confident men, men too like confident women. The type of woman who isn't going to ask a question like this, or even care if some dudes think she is a gold diggee or whatever. 

I'm not trying to rag in you OP, I'm just saying you need to develop a bit more of an "idgaf" attitude with some of this stuff. That isn't to say you stop trying to grow to be a better person. More so, let go of some areas where you care a little too much what others think of you.


----------



## Adelais

katiecrna said:


> And for your information I am getting nothing from my husband... and I supported him through medical school, and residency. He completely screwed me over financially.


:frown2:

But now you're happy. And when you marry someone you are compatible with you will still be happy, if not happier.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

EleGirl said:


> Nope, he is a college dropout (after 1 quarter), ex cocaine/meth addict and did a lot of things before he became rich on pillow.
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/20/how...om-crack-addict-to-self-made-millionaire.html
> 
> I'm not sure he'd make a good partner, the ex drug user thing is scary. The money does not make up for it.


Wow! Well, I learn something every day. Still (as I'd never have a relationship with him 😎😎) he either finally "got right" and/or lit a fire under himself (not cooking meth I'd hope) and created enough funds to amuse himself under the radar.


----------



## 269370

Araucaria said:


> Actually Andy was correct, unless you are thinking he is using zero as a verb.
> 
> 
> 
> https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/61529/zero-zeros-or-zeroes




Both versions are correct actually:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zero

(Don’t worry, I looked it up beforehand so I don’t look like a complete moron 🧐


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## katiecrna

Rowan said:


> I'm curious why you even went on a date with this man? He was already putting off the bitter/angry vibe when you were just chatting, before you even went out. Him complaining that all the nurses he dated were gold diggers is the equivalent of a man telling you that every one of his exes are "crazy". It's a red flag. Because it's an indication that the guy is some combination of lying about his relationship history to make himself look better, completely lacking in self-awareness and the ability to own his contributions to his prior relationship failures, and/or has a broken picker that speaks to some issues you'd probably rather not have to deal with.
> 
> Honestly, I probably wouldn't have gotten as far as dinner with this guy after he expressed suspicion about my motives so openly. This is a man who didn't mind letting you know he thought you were probably a gold digging tramp, and pretty much called you a liar regarding the end of your marriage, but wanted to date you even though he thought that. Think about that a minute and let it sink in. Why would you even want to date someone who thought that about you _and_ didn't mind letting you know it? And the "testing" you with the humble-brags? Yeah, this man has issues. Whether it's with nurses, or with women in general, he has some issues that don't point to him being 100% ready to be an emotionally healthy partner in an emotionally healthy relationship. Next!




Wow you are 100% correct. Thank you for this comment. 

Ok so I clearly have issues, and low self esteem and I have a hard time identifying red flags in others. I always see the good in people and rationalize the red flags I guess. 

So I interpreted him saying all these things as... he must of been hurt in the past or had bad experiences with nurses and it’s a good thing that he doesn’t want a gold digger. That’s how I rationalized it in my head and made him a “nice guy”.


----------



## sa58

Porsche 911

In Germany they use BMW's , Mercedes Benz's and Audi's
for Taxi's. The police drive BMW's. Just make sure you don't
drive a red sports car. They are police magnets.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I have to admit when I was single, and had a service do my laundry and dry cleaning / drop them off, and women first found out some, not all, were "well, who do you think you are, etc". But everyone of them got over it as we got to know each other. It was nothing but a thing. 

For me it was practical. I calculated time and money I'd spent doing laundry, balanced with clothes I ruined washing (because of impatience) and I came out ahead. 

Again, just practical.


----------



## Adelais

inmyprime said:


> Both versions are correct actually:
> 
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/zero
> 
> (Don’t worry, I looked it up beforehand so I don’t look like a complete moron 🧐
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had a vision of GW Bush in my head. "Add an e to that" when correcting a 2nd grader who had already spelled potato correctly.

Our sources need to talk to each other!

I just hate the PA low blows of the grammar police when they use grammar or spelling to try to take the upper hand.

I now get that you were joking with Andy.

Truce.


----------



## Andy1001

katiecrna said:


> Wow you are 100% correct. Thank you for this comment.
> 
> Ok so I clearly have issues, and low self esteem and I have a hard time identifying red flags in others. I always see the good in people and rationalize the red flags I guess.
> 
> So I interpreted him saying all these things as... he must of been hurt in the past or had bad experiences with nurses and it’s a good thing that he doesn’t want a gold digger. That’s how I rationalized it in my head and made him a “nice guy”.


Katie take this to the bank.
I know you work out and you must have a great figure if you can wear the outfits in your photos.You earn a decent income and are financially independent.You are intelligent and come across as a kind person.Giving Dr ******* the benefit of the doubt proves this.
Don’t let this idiot give you the feeling that all men are like this,we’re not.
He should have been selling himself to you not putting you down.I don’t care what happened to him in the past any man who begins a night out by insinuating his date is a gold digger should have been told to get lost.


----------



## katiecrna

Andy1001 said:


> Katie take this to the bank.
> 
> I know you work out and you must have a great figure if you can wear the outfits in your photos.You earn a decent income and are financially independent.You are intelligent and come across as a kind person.Giving Dr ******* the benefit of the doubt proves this.
> 
> Don’t let this idiot give you the feeling that all men are like this,we’re not.
> 
> He should have been selling himself to you not putting you down.I don’t care what happened to him in the past any man who begins a night out by insinuating his date is a gold digger should have been told to get lost.




Thank you. And my problem is that I didn’t identify that as an insult to myself. I saw it as he suspicious of me because of something that happened in his past... something that has nothing to do with me.


----------



## Andy1001

Araucaria said:


> I had a vision of GW Bush in my head. "Add an e to that" when correcting a 2nd grader who had already spelled potato correctly.
> 
> Our sources need to talk to each other!
> 
> I just hate the PA low blows of the grammar police when they use grammar or spelling to try to take the upper hand.
> 
> I now get that you were joking with Andy.
> 
> Truce.


The English are trying to convert the world to their spelling and pronunciation.
To be fair they’ve lost everything else that they invented.
Rugby,soccer,cricket,English language,all invented by the English but taken over and improved by the rest of the world.
They must be crying into their warm beer lol.


----------



## Adelais

If the Dr. doesn't trust nurses, why did he go on a date with one?

That would have been my thought when he told me his opinion on nurses. I might have even asked him that same question and gladly blown up the 1st date.


----------



## Rowan

katiecrna said:


> Wow you are 100% correct. Thank you for this comment.
> 
> Ok so I clearly have issues, and low self esteem and I have a hard time identifying red flags in others. I always see the good in people and rationalize the red flags I guess.
> 
> So I interpreted him saying all these things as... he must of been hurt in the past or had bad experiences with nurses and it’s a good thing that he doesn’t want a gold digger. That’s how I rationalized it in my head and made him a “nice guy”.


Well, he may have been hurt in the past. And that's unfortunate. The problem is that he's making that hurt inflicted by someone else in the past, into a problem for you in the present. He's bringing baggage. A lot of it. 

Look, every adult in the dating world has _some_ baggage. The trick is to work on yourself until you've pared your baggage down to a manageable carry on size, rather than requiring three steamer trunks, two suitcases and a porter to lug it all around for you. And then look for potential partners who have done the same work on reducing their own baggage load. This man doesn't seem to be there yet. 

OP, you may need to work on recognizing and controlling an overdeveloped need to nurture. You're very likely in the medical field because you want to help people. But it's not your job - it's actually not even possible - for you to help potential partners overcome their past hurts. Work on recognizing when you're being drawn to someone because they need help. That's not a good place to start a healthy relationship from. Improve your self-esteem and your boundaries, so that you are less willing to overlook red flags and be drawn into "helping" potential partners fix themselves, and are better able to focus on finding one who already has.


----------



## 269370

Double


----------



## 269370

“single girl in a nice car” 

Is there a ‘but it now’ button for this advert?  (joking. But a funny title).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Adelais

Andy1001 said:


> The English are trying to convert the world to their spelling and pronunciation.
> To be fair they’ve lost everything else that they invented.
> Rugby,soccer,cricket,English language,all invented by the English but taken over and improved by the rest of the world.
> They must be crying into their warm beer lol.


In college I had a British Chemistry professor, who insisted that Aluminum was spelled "Aluminium," and was pronounced [al-oo-min-ee-um]. He not only had a PhD in Chemistry, but he started his working career in England as a fire eater and sword swallower for a circus! He did a fire eating demo for his class every semester. He was missing his two front teeth because they had blown up from fire eating.

I like the way he pronounced it better, but it was a no-go in the USA. I sometimes say aluminium at home to have fun with the family. I also call the piano the [pie-a-noh] just to sound like a hillbilly f(The Clampets from Beverly Hillbillies) and have fun!

....and everyone knows that beer tastes better cold!!


----------



## Andy1001

Araucaria said:


> In college I had a British Chemistry professor, who insisted that Aluminum was spelled "Aluminium," and was pronounced [al-oo-min-ee-um]. He not only had a PhD in Chemistry, but he started his working career in England as a fire eater and sword swallower for a circus! He did a fire eating demo for his class every semester. He was missing his two front teeth because they had blown up from fire eating.
> 
> I like the way he pronounced it better, but it was a no-go in the USA. I sometimes say aluminium at home to have fun with the family. I also call the piano the [pie-a-noh] just to sound like a hillbilly f(The Clampets from Beverly Hillbillies) and have fun!
> 
> ....and everyone knows that beer tastes better cold!!


In England.
Jam =jelly.
Footpath =sidewalk.
Chips= Fries.
Tap=Faucet.
Bird=Girl.
Petrol=Gasoline.
Sweets=Candy.
Pop=Soda.
Tube=Subway.
Yank=Every person born in the USA,Canada,Mexico,Hawaii etc.
Ale=Warm beer.
Real ale=Even warmer beer.
And don’t get me started on the food.Blood pudding,tripe,jellied eels,periwinkles,kippers.
And ****ing marmite.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Araucaria said:


> In college I had a British Chemistry professor, who insisted that Aluminum was spelled "Aluminium," and was pronounced [al-oo-min-ee-um]. He not only had a PhD in Chemistry, but he had also worked in a circus and been a fire eater! He did a fire eating demo for his class every semester. He was missing his two front teeth because they had blown up from fire eating.
> 
> I like the way he pronounced it better, but it was a no-go in the USA. I sometimes say aluminium at home to have fun with the family. I also call the piano the [pie-a-noh] just to sound like a hillbilly f(The Clampets from Beverly Hillbillies) and have fun!
> 
> ....and everyone knows that beer tastes better cold!!


LoL, I am actually all for college. I think a young person out of high school needs a solid four years somewhere to "season", that could be military or college. With that said the whole sheepskin mentality is out of control. Advanced degrees do not guarantee you success. It also does NOT mean you are smarter than everyone else. I'd only advise my kids to get an advanced degree if it was a subject area they were passionate about, and also if they didn't care how much money they made, I actually think you are wasting time in school if you have a plan. Not everyone was meant to be a shark like me...come to think of it....I consider myself more of an orca, I can be mean, but I'm nice too, and I'll do flips for fish and what not.


----------



## Adelais

Andy1001 said:


> In England.
> Jam =jelly.
> Footpath =sidewalk.
> Chips= Fries.
> Tap=Faucet.
> Bird=Girl.
> Petrol=Gasoline.
> Sweets=Candy.
> Pop=Soda.
> Tube=Subway.
> Yank=Every person born in the USA,Canada,Mexico,Hawaii etc.
> Ale=Warm beer.
> Real ale=Even warmer beer.
> And don’t get me started on the food.Blood pudding,tripe,jellied eels,periwinkles,kippers.
> And ****ing *marmite.*


What do you mean?!! Marmite is good with butter on toast with a cup tea!!


----------



## uhtred

I think that there is a lot of variety in how people view money. 

Some, like my father, seem to think that the goal in life is to collect as much as you can, I guess to get the "high score" when you die. Others spend until they are too far in debt to spend any more. 

Some view wealth as a measure of "worth" in a general sense, others seem to think that having money is a sign of being evil, and that no one gets wealthy honestly. 

For me its a tool. Money can be used to make life easier and more fun in a variety of situations, but its not something of great importance by itself. I'm happy to spend money on things that make me happy, without worrying if they are "overpriced". I try to only stress over large amounts of money. I don't care if the hotel minibar charges $5 for a can of soda. (I know other people who are driven crazy by being "overcharged" for inexpensive items").


----------



## happyhusband0005

Andy1001 said:


> In England.
> Jam =jelly.
> Footpath =sidewalk.
> Chips= Fries.
> Tap=Faucet.
> Bird=Girl.
> Petrol=Gasoline.
> Sweets=Candy.
> Pop=Soda.
> Tube=Subway.
> Yank=Every person born in the USA,Canada,Mexico,Hawaii etc.
> Ale=Warm beer.
> Real ale=Even warmer beer.
> And don’t get me started on the food.Blood pudding,tripe,jellied eels,periwinkles,kippers.
> And ****ing marmite.


Andy you forgot one important one Pants=Underwear. When my wife and I lived in London for a bit we were meeting friends at a pub and walked in drenched from rain. When walked up to our friends (all English) she loudly announced "sorry we're late, my pants are so wet". We had no idea why the whole pub was laughing out loud.


----------



## Andy1001

Araucaria said:


> What do you mean?!! Marmite is good with butter on toast with a cup tea!!


Marmite is the spawn of the devil.
It was first developed for greasing old steam engines,found wanting and was then used to rub into the faces of convicted horse thieves who would then be hung.And they found hanging a relief after the indignity of marmite.
This was deemed too cruel and unusual a punishment so marmite was sent out to Australia to be used as Kangaroo repellent but again found wanting and the Australian authorities insisted on sending it back.Along with myxomatosis.
It ****ensian times it was used to grease the wheels of the new omnibuses which were becoming popular but people objected to the smell so in desperation it was put into glass containers and left on shelves in various stores with a sign saying DO NOT EAT.
So the English started eating it,thought it was disgusting and exported it to America 
And that’s the truth.


----------



## sokillme

katiecrna said:


> Ok men... what if you meet this nice girl and you see her car and it’s a really nice sports car? Does this change your opinion about her?
> 
> The reason I’m asking is because I seem to get labeled as a gold digger, or someone who looks like I COULD be one. And I’m super annoyed by this because I like a couple nice things like shoes for example and I can afford shoes. For the record I make my own money and I make good money.
> I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed. So right away his guard was up. For the record, I like the way I dress, and I like what I like. So I need a new car because mine is breaking down and I’m thinking of getting a M4 but don’t know if men will be intimidated by this.


You just need to date better men. Hope you aren't seeing him again. 

Honestly depending what you do (I know you are nurse) not sure if I would think you were wise with your money. My first thought would be how material is this girl. Like is your head on straight, I wouldn't be worried that you would be trying to get my money because I am confident in my ability to say no. Wouldn't be a deal breaker just involves more investigation.

AND I WOULDN'T BE WORRIED ABOUT IT ON A FIRST DATE. Probably would want a ride. 

Dude seems weak.


----------



## Adelais

Andy1001 said:


> Marmite is the spawn of the devil.
> It was first developed for greasing old steam engines,found wanting and was then used to rub into the faces of convicted horse thieves who would then be hung.And they found hanging a relief after the indignity of marmite.
> This was deemed too cruel and unusual a punishment so marmite was sent out to Australia to be used as Kangaroo repellent but again found wanting and the Australian authorities insisted on sending it back.Along with myxomatosis.
> It ****ensian times it was used to grease the wheels of the new omnibuses which were becoming popular but people objected to the smell so in desperation it was put into glass containers and left on shelves in various stores with a sign saying DO NOT EAT.
> So the English started eating it,thought it was disgusting and exported it to America
> And that’s the truth.


:lol: Good story!


----------



## sokillme

katiecrna said:


> Ok so this is hard to explain and might make me look bad but here it does...
> 
> Do I care about money? Yes a little bit. I don’t mind making more money than my partner but I don’t want to make a LOT more. The thing for me is that I am traditional in the since that I want the balance between my relationship to be a certain way.... I don’t want to be the more educated, more money making, better job person in the relationship. And it’s not because I want money it’s because I want a certain relationship/balance. Plus I am attracted to smart men, and I respect educated men. So I will usually only go out with a man with a advance degree. And I work in health care and I’m not saying I need a doctor but it’s nice to date someone that I can talk about my job with and him understand.
> 
> So this guy I went out with I pursued on match. He is a doctor. And he is sensitive to gold diggers and he thought that the only reason why I asked him out was Bc he was a doctor and then when we met he followed up that judgement based on what I was wearing and I could tell that he thought I was a “certain way” if that makes sense.
> 
> It’s hard to explain but I hate feeling judged by people because I have been judged my whole life about stuff like this.


You don't notice the irony in your last sentence after the first paragraph? 

Anyway I don't think it's a big deal you want a traditional relationship, but you are undermined because you are in a field right now where there is demand so you are competing with yourself in a way. I also understand the education thing but I have meet a ton of educated idiots in my life. Anyway, you should expand you horizons, how about and engineer or something like that. In general Doctors are shady as hell. Lawyers too. You think with your history you would have figured that out. 

Not trying to be mean but you could be a little more self aware, and not because of the car thing. Some of your starch red lines just seem to hurt you. I kid you about the video games thing but when 90% of young men playing them it's really kind of silly. Same goes with this if you only date doctors you are going to be picking from a pool of very particular kinds of men. Try branching out you may be surprised. 

I'll just put this here

Oh and this.

One more thing there are plenty of men out there who are less educated then you who make more money then you. They are probably going to be in IT (they will be gamers though) or own their own business. They are probably very smart and self educated, they just didn't like taking test and wanted to make money.


----------



## sokillme

EllisRedding said:


> Definitely wouldn't want an uneducated person who somehow was able to create a product in a marketplace full of thousands of products that stands out and makes tons of money, what a dummy :wink2: Just busting your chops here, but I think it is important to understand that what qualifies as being "educated" will vary from person to person.


Yeah right, what skill does that take. He just crapped it out and got everyone to buy it by hypnosis. :grin2:

Funny once I took this test online that was supposed to predict your level of education. I missed 2 and got secondary grad school or something. It was like the 90% of educated people in the USA. 

I went to college for 2 years got sick of it went to tech school and do very well, as well as your standard doctor. Guess I couldn't hold a conversation with Katie though. Ha!


----------



## RandomDude

Wait what? You don't like gamers? Lol

Not all of us look like this:









Some of us could look like this:











But nah I'm kidding, if you don't like the lifestyle it's best not to date a gamer, it would be too incompatible. 

Still, what sokillme mentioned about in regards to expanding your horizons, like dating an engineer or entrepreneur - why not?


----------



## EllisRedding

katiecrna said:


> like within 10 mins of our date he told me how much he will make, .


OK, I have been out of the dating scene for a long time now, but who the heck tells their date how much they do or will make??? Dude is a loser Katie, move on


----------



## sokillme

katiecrna said:


> There is something deeper there and that’s the problem. She is so insecure and because I am the most successful one in the family and the only one who cares about normal things and my appearance and whatever... her being around me makes her feel bad about herself like she’s not good enough. She’s super crazy.


Maybe you give off the vibe that she is not as smart as you because of her education. Maybe she feels like you look down on her. No offense but you just about say as much here.


----------



## EllisRedding

sokillme said:


> One more thing there are plenty of men out there who are less educated then you who make more money then you. They are probably going to be in IT (they will be gamers though) or own their own business. They are probably very smart and self educated, they just didn't like taking test and wanted to make money.


I think in part it comes down to the definition of education, or what makes someone "educated". I gather from Katie, she views the most educated as those in specific occupations (such as doctors). I don't really see drawing a correlation between the two, unless the criteria is based on how much school time they took part in. Someone who spends half as much time on school but kills it in their profession, are they less "educated"? I get that Katie is attracted to doctors b/c of her profession, but I think there is in part the whole stature thing that she is as much drawn to (i.e. a doctor at face value probably has more "stature" then lets say someone in IT or a business professional, even if those people make more money). I am sure if you introduce your date The Doctor to family you will get more OOHs and AAHs than if you introduce most other professions.

Funny enough, my mom had this whole idea that in order to "make it" you had to be a doctor or lawyer. She would make comments b/c this is not what I wanted to do. Ironically, my sister is in fact a lawyer yet I make significantly more than her and didn't have to incur six figure student debt.


----------



## john117

Andy1001 said:


> There is a saying “Never trust an economist with a PhD”.Its simply because the investment in time and money is very rarely made up in financial compensation.
> I have often discussed this with john17 about this seemingly American need for enough educational certifications to paper an average wall.Before anyone points out I know John is European.
> If you are making big bucks at the first attempt then why the need for more degrees,masters etc.


Without the PhD you actually have to work for a living. With a PhD you do too, but can explain away a lot of things or pick and choose what you want to do, making life a lot easier. 

If you want to be a director or chief engineer, the PhD is useless. But if you want to burrow in your lab and come out once or twice a year without the higher ups wondering, it's your ticket.

Edit: in industry. Academia is a different story, and one I did not want to get into. I liked teaching, but the politics of academia makes the DNC look like the boy scouts.


----------



## john117

Faithful Wife said:


> Dude, really? Was this a joke? Or do you just honestly not know these things?
> 
> https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...-50-states-montana-tops-the-list-at-243k.html
> 
> "On average, certified registered nurse anesthetists in the U.S. make $160,250 annually, but CRNAs in some states make much more than the mean annual wage, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
> 
> For instance, CRNAs in Montana earn the highest average salary of CRNAs in the U.S. at $243,550. New Hampshire came in second at $217,560 followed by Wyoming, Wisconsin and California rounding out the top five."


Where can you spend $243k a year in Wyoming? 🤠


----------



## katiecrna

So I knew that guy was kind of playing me, he was super passive and didn’t really text me but we had a really good first date that lasted 4 hours. After when I didn’t hear from him I knew he was playing some sort of game... so I texted him... and he went to some festival near my house and I invited him over...only because I wanted to take advantage of him because I can play games too. So anyway long story short... i put on short shorts, tied up my t-shirt and was acting like I was cleaning. And of course I made my bed (haha). Anyway.... he came over, spent literally 10 hours at my apartment, it took him hours to finally make a move on me, and in the end he went down on me 4 times, and I orgasmed 3x, none of which he knew about on purpose and then I sent him home without touching him.


----------



## katiecrna

sokillme said:


> Maybe you give off the vibe that she is not as smart as you because of her education. Maybe she feels like you look down on her. No offense but you just about say as much here.




I would never infer that I am better than anyone.


----------



## sokillme

katiecrna said:


> I would never infer that I am better than anyone.


Maybe you give off that vibe though.


----------



## katiecrna

sokillme said:


> Maybe you give off that vibe though.




Maybe I do. But she verbally Insults me and makes it extremely difficult to have a relationship with her.


----------



## EllisRedding

katiecrna said:


> So I knew that guy was kind of playing me, he was super passive and didn’t really text me but we had a really good first date that lasted 4 hours. After when I didn’t hear from him I knew he was playing some sort of game... so I am texted him... and he went to some festival near my house and I invited him over...only because I wanted to take advantage of him because I am okay games too. So anyway long story short... i put in short shorts, tied up my t-shirt and was acting like I was leaning. And of course I made my bed (haha). Anyway.... he came over, spend literally 10 hours at my apartment, it took him hours to finally make a move on me, and in the end he went down on me 4 times, and I orgasmed twice, none of which he knew about on purpose and then I sent him home without touching him.


I am so confused how this thread went from wanting a nice car to the above post lol ...


----------



## katiecrna

EllisRedding said:


> I am so confused how this thread went from wanting a nice car to the above post lol ...




Hahahaha I agree. That was random. The point of that post was to show that I knew he was a jerk and Im not an idiot and I can play games and take advantage of people too.


----------



## sokillme

katiecrna said:


> Maybe I do. But she verbally Insults me and makes it extremely difficult to have a relationship with her.


Well that is a whole different situation. 

r/Raisedbynacisists


----------



## sokillme

EllisRedding said:


> I am so confused how this thread went from wanting a nice car to the above post lol ...


I'm glad I am not the only one. :corkysm60:


----------



## sokillme

katiecrna said:


> Hahahaha I agree. That was random. The point of that post was to show that I knew he was a jerk and Im not an idiot and I can play games and take advantage of people too.


I am curious how did he take advantage of you? Sound like you had a date and he didn't follow up, was he required to in your mind? Maybe he just didn't think it was as good as you though.

How much of this post is really about you feeling kind of hurt because you thought you had a good start? 

Maybe this guy is just too passive for you. I think you should not worry about him and just move on.

Just do your self a favor and for now throw your rules out the window and date lost of different guys. Give it a try at worst you will have a free meal. I think you have grown up in a hospital and you need to get out of there for a while and see what the rest of the world has to offer.


----------



## katiecrna

sokillme said:


> I am curious how did he take advantage of you? Sound like you had a date and he didn't follow up, was he required to in your mind? Maybe he just didn't think it was as good as you though.




He was playing games with my mind. We had a great first date. We went out for drinks. He was checking me out, told me I was beautiful, we stayed for 4 hours talking and laughing. He opened up about his life, some personal issues in his past, and got choked up telling me about some health issues with his mother. It was a good date. 

He didn’t text me, and he didn’t have to and I’m fine with that. I’m direct, and I texted him. We talked a little, he was super nice blah blah. 

He was at the festive by my house and that’s why I invited him over. Meanwhile... he tells me this story about how he went on a couple dates with this one girl and he was really busy the next few days so he didn’t text her. So he was saying how crazy she was because she flipped out on him saying that he ghosted her and all this stuff. So this is what he does.... it’s really weird. And he was acting like she was the crazy one when he just plays head games. 

When we were together the first and second time you would of thought this guy was falling for me. He was so nice, complimenting me so much blah blah. Like really working hard to get me to like him. Then his thing is to not text after. It’s weird.


----------



## katiecrna

I’m not hurt. I recognized right away that he was manipulative or playing some weird game. He was like trying to read me like a book... like one of those pick up artists do. 
He was testing me about the gold digger thing. He made some weird comments about less attractive men and women have to be more aggressive according to research! Like who looks up research like that! 

I’m not mad about it. It was fun and a good experience. I actually think that we would make good friends haha.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Also, you got some face! Woot!


----------



## sokillme

katiecrna said:


> He was playing games with my mind. We had a great first date. We went out for drinks. He was checking me out, told me I was beautiful, we stayed for 4 hours talking and laughing. He opened up about his life, some personal issues in his past, and got choked up telling me about some health issues with his mother. It was a good date.
> 
> He didn’t text me, and he didn’t have to and I’m fine with that. I’m direct, and I texted him. We talked a little, he was super nice blah blah.
> 
> He was at the festive by my house and that’s why I invited him over. Meanwhile... he tells me this story about how he went on a couple dates with this one girl and he was really busy the next few days so he didn’t text her. So he was saying how crazy she was because she flipped out on him saying that he ghosted her and all this stuff. So this is what he does.... it’s really weird. And he was acting like she was the crazy one when he just plays head games.
> 
> When we were together the first and second time you would of thought this guy was falling for me. He was so nice, complimenting me so much blah blah. Like really working hard to get me to like him. Then his thing is to not text after. It’s weird.


Wait what, you showed him by having sex with him? I think I'm old I don't get millennials.


----------



## Faithful Wife

sokillme said:


> katiecrna said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was playing games with my mind. We had a great first date. We went out for drinks. He was checking me out, told me I was beautiful, we stayed for 4 hours talking and laughing. He opened up about his life, some personal issues in his past, and got choked up telling me about some health issues with his mother. It was a good date.
> 
> He didn’t text me, and he didn’t have to and I’m fine with that. I’m direct, and I texted him. We talked a little, he was super nice blah blah.
> 
> He was at the festive by my house and that’s why I invited him over. Meanwhile... he tells me this story about how he went on a couple dates with this one girl and he was really busy the next few days so he didn’t text her. So he was saying how crazy she was because she flipped out on him saying that he ghosted her and all this stuff. So this is what he does.... it’s really weird. And he was acting like she was the crazy one when he just plays head games.
> 
> When we were together the first and second time you would of thought this guy was falling for me. He was so nice, complimenting me so much blah blah. Like really working hard to get me to like him. Then his thing is to not text after. It’s weird.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait what, you showed him by having sex with him? I think I'm old I don't get millennials.
Click to expand...

She used him for her own gratification while he got none (other than the pleasure of going down on her....you’re welcome, face dude!)


----------



## EllisRedding

sokillme said:


> Wait what, you showed him by having sex with him? I think I'm old I don't get millennials.


I think she received oral and then sent him on his way without reciprocating. This is by far the most bizarre thread I have come across in a while, but sure is entertaining lol


----------



## sokillme

EllisRedding said:


> I think she received oral and then sent him on his way without reciprocating. This is by far the most bizarre thread I have come across in a while, but sure is entertaining lol


I don't know about you but any time I get to see a women's :smthumbup: that's a win in my book. At least it's a good night. Maybe it's me.


----------



## katiecrna

So in my marriage I had this rule... if I don’t orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm. So I was telling this guy about it and he thought it was a good rule. So he was trying really hard to get me to orgasm which is why he went down on me so much. So I pretended like I was close... then I stopped him. But in reality I did orgasm I just never told him for obvious reasons. So we would stop for a while and he would try again not knowing that I did orgasm again... hahaha. So after the fourth time and third orgasm it was getting late so I sent him home with him thinking he couldn’t make me orgasm. Yea I’m mean.


----------



## RandomDude

katiecrna said:


> Hahahaha I agree. That was random. The point of that post was to show that I knew he was a jerk and Im not an idiot and *I can play games and take advantage of people too*.


Guess, that's something to be proud of? :scratchhead:


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

katiecrna said:


> So in my marriage I had this rule... if I don’t orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm. So I was telling this guy about it and he thought it was a good rule. So he was trying really hard to get me to orgasm which is why he went down on me so much. So I pretended like I was close... then I stopped him. But in reality I did orgasm I just never told him for obvious reasons. So we would stop for a while and he would try again not knowing that I did orgasm again... hahaha. So after the fourth time and third orgasm it was getting late so I sent him home with him thinking he couldn’t make me orgasm. Yea I’m mean.


This is a good way to kill a man's confidence. The type of thing that if continued could lead to some ED issues where he is so self conscious about his ability to pleasure you, he ends up losing his boner. 

Just a warning. Besides, if he ever learned the truth, he would probably be pretty hurt by this little game.


----------



## azimuth

katiecrna said:


> *So in my marriage I had this rule... if I don’t orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm. So I was telling this guy about it* and he thought it was a good rule. So he was trying really hard to get me to orgasm which is why he went down on me so much. So I pretended like I was close... then I stopped him. But in reality I did orgasm I just never told him for obvious reasons. So we would stop for a while and he would try again not knowing that I did orgasm again... hahaha. So after the fourth time and third orgasm it was getting late so I sent him home with him thinking he couldn’t make me orgasm. Yea I’m mean.


Is this the same man who made the gold digger insinuations? I’m a tad confused as to why you’d be talking about such intimate details of your past marriage with him who was so rude to you accusing you of being a gold digger. Or invited him to your apartment and engaged in this game. I guess the whole thing is a little confusing to me. I hope this isn’t what dating looks like today.


----------



## john117

I'm probably old school but it would take a diatribe written by George R R Martin to explain an encounter that included 4x asymmetrical oral by him and no lifting a finger to reciprocate by you.


----------



## 269370

katiecrna said:


> Hahahaha I agree. That was random. The point of that post was to show that I knew he was a jerk and Im not an idiot and I can play games and take advantage of people too.



How do you know he didn’t enjoy going down on you more than you enjoyed him going down on you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

katiecrna said:


> So in my marriage I had this rule... if I don’t orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm. So I was telling this guy about it and he thought it was a good rule. So he was trying really hard to get me to orgasm which is why he went down on me so much. So I pretended like I was close... then I stopped him. But in reality I did orgasm I just never told him for obvious reasons. So we would stop for a while and he would try again not knowing that I did orgasm again... hahaha. So after the fourth time and third orgasm it was getting late so I sent him home with him thinking he couldn’t make me orgasm. Yea I’m mean.


He knew you had multiple orgasms Katie.
Believe me,he knew.
He is one of these men who enjoy the journey as much as the destination.
He knew!


----------



## Luminous

For some reason, when reading your posts, the following came to mind:

'Perhaps it is time to take up a new hobby'

Edit: or get a new car


----------



## katiecrna

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This is a good way to kill a man's confidence. The type of thing that if continued could lead to some ED issues where he is so self conscious about his ability to pleasure you, he ends up losing his boner.
> 
> 
> 
> Just a warning. Besides, if he ever learned the truth, he would probably be pretty hurt by this little game.




I can tell this guy has a lot of issues. Like me, except he takes his issues out on people. I’m not getting offended by his antics or by what he says about nurses and gold diggers because I know he’s hurt. But this guy does not need his ego stroked any more. He likes to push buttons and get people mad and then when they flip out he points his finger and says wow she’s crazy. That’s what my ex husband did. It’s never them, it’s everyone else.


----------



## katiecrna

inmyprime said:


> How do you know he didn’t enjoy going down on you more than you enjoyed him going down on you?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




He may have enjoyed it but not more than me


----------



## RandomDude

Sex as a weapon... bleh!


----------



## katiecrna

I don’t feel bad. He is emotionally manipulative. I didn’t hurt him, he enjoyed it.


----------



## ReformedHubby

sokillme said:


> I don't know about you but any time I get to see a women's :smthumbup: that's a win in my book. At least it's a good night. Maybe it's me.


I don't mind being used...but I wouldn't be happy if she got hers multiple times and I didn't get at least one! @katiecrna is an alpha!


----------



## RandomDude

katiecrna said:


> I don’t feel bad. He is emotionally manipulative. I didn’t hurt him, he enjoyed it.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

katiecrna said:


> He is emotionally manipulative.


Two peas in a pod eh?


----------



## katiecrna

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Two peas in a pod eh?




No. Some people need to learn a lesson. I’m sure he has no idea that he is emotionally manipulative. He is going to keep going around saying all these women are crazy and that’s why he’s single. He opened up to me and told me about why his relationships have failed and all this stuff and how he’s stubborn and loves to push buttons and all the women he dates eventually get crazy. It’s like come on dude it’s not the women it’s you.


----------



## john117

If what your response was is considered a punishment or lesson, there are plenty of men willing to partake.

Cost benefit analysis is your friend.


----------



## katiecrna

Listen I don’t expect people to understand. From what I went through with my stbxh, this was a win for me. I recognized that he is toxic, I recognized patterns similar to what my stbxh did. And instead of getting angry and mad and looking like the crazy one I stayed calm, cool, and collective and I’m dealing with the situation for what it is. I’m not emotionally invested because I sure as hell know he’s not. But at the same time I feel kind of bad for him and I’m learning from him to help me.


----------



## EllisRedding

katiecrna said:


> Listen I don’t expect people to understand. From what I went through with my stbxh, this was a win for me. I recognized that he is toxic, I recognized patterns similar to what my stbxh did. And instead of getting angry and mad and looking like the crazy one I stayed calm, cool, and collective and I’m dealing with the situation for what it is. I’m not emotionally invested because I sure as hell know he’s not. But at the same time I feel kind of bad for him and I’m learning from him to help me.


Curious though, do you not see a pattern on your side as well? You were again drawn to someone who sounds like shares very similar characteristics to your stbxh. You recognized he was toxic but he still got into your pants (whether there was any reciprocation or not). Not trying to judge here, just doesn't quite sound like the win you make it out to be


----------



## Rowan

katiecrna said:


> Listen I don’t expect people to understand. From what I went through with my stbxh, this was a win for me. I recognized that he is toxic, I recognized patterns similar to what my stbxh did. And instead of getting angry and mad and looking like the crazy one I stayed calm, cool, and collective and I’m dealing with the situation for what it is. I’m not emotionally invested because I sure as hell know he’s not. But at the same time I feel kind of bad for him and I’m learning from him to help me.



This is fine, I suppose. But please do understand that as long as you're playing these little games, you're still engaged - spending time, energy, thought, emotion - on someone you say you know isn't what you want. The far, far, healthier approach would be to simply move along as soon as you recognize dysfunction. Instead, you're choosing to participate in the dysfunction and engage with it. That's a good indication that the dysfunction is attractive to you in some way. And enjoying toying with people as you are with him indicates that you might not really be ready for a healthy relationship, either.


----------



## katiecrna

EllisRedding said:


> Curious though, do you not see a pattern on your side as well? You were again drawn to someone who sounds like shares very similar characteristics to your stbxh. You recognized he was toxic but he still got into your pants (whether there was any reciprocation or not). Not trying to judge here, just doesn't quite sound like the win you make it out to be




100% 
I know I have a pattern and this whole thing is a learning experience. Literally tons of guys on match message me and asked me for dates and I didn’t like any of them. I literally found this guy on match and I pursued him. It’s like I have this ability to find these toxic guys and go for them. It’s really crazy to me. But of course I didn’t realize it until I realized it. But I’m glad u eventually picked up on it even if it was not right away. Better late than never. 
This is a learning experience for me as well.


----------



## katiecrna

Rowan said:


> This is fine, I suppose. But please do understand that as long as you're playing these little games, you're still engaged - spending time, energy, thought, emotion - on someone you say you know isn't what you want. The far, far, healthier approach would be to simply move along as soon as you recognize dysfunction. Instead, you're choosing to participate in the dysfunction and engage with it. That's a good indication that the dysfunction is attractive to you in some way. And enjoying toying with people as you are with him indicates that you might not really be ready for a healthy relationship, either.




You make a good point. I am making the decision to engage. Maybe I like the dysfunction and drama. But I AM smart enough not to get emotionally invested.


----------



## EllisRedding

katiecrna said:


> 100%
> I know I have a pattern and this whole thing is a learning experience. Literally tons of guys on match message me and asked me for dates and I didn’t like any of them. I literally found this guy on match and I pursued him. It’s like I have this ability to find these toxic guys and go for them. It’s really crazy to me. But of course I didn’t realize it until I realized it. But I’m glad u eventually picked up on it even if it was not right away. Better late than never.
> This is a learning experience for me as well.


I know you like to date within your professional circle. Any concern that if this becomes a habit, you will end up developing a reputation within your circle? For all you know, this guy could be telling other doctors, etc... about how it only took a few dates to get access to the all you can eat buffet (oh man that sounds stupid to write down lol).

I mention this because the whole purpose of this thread initially was your concern over how others perceive you.


----------



## katiecrna

EllisRedding said:


> I know you like to date within your professional circle. Any concern that if this becomes a habit, you will end up developing a reputation within your circle? For all you know, this guy could be telling other doctors, etc... about how it only took a few dates to get access to the all you can eat buffet (oh man that sounds stupid to write down lol).
> 
> I mention this because the whole purpose of this thread initially was your concern over how others perceive you.




I will not make this a pattern. And thankfully he works in a completely different area and speciality than me.


----------



## katiecrna

And I am done with this current guy.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

I was going to comment about the car thing but I gotta tell you lol. For whatever reason, your posts seem to take on a life of their own and invoke infighting and I don't know why. I just remember the Dirty Joke at work post and that escalated quickly.


----------



## Faithful Wife

katiecrna said:


> And I am done with this current guy.


I think you are doing great. Considering these are your first few steps out the gate after your marriage, of course you are going to have a few stumbles. It’s par for the post divorce course. I actually hope you get to date around for a bit before you meet someone for an LTR.


----------



## 269370

katiecrna said:


> He may have enjoyed it but not more than me



I think women sometimes underestimate the fun they have when going down on their partner. If you had a line 50 single men, how many do you think would say no to giving oral to a woman? (Slightly depends on the type of woman, but probably only slightly).
I have just never read before that that is something one would feel smug about! It’s different than just blowing someone off...



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----------



## 269370

katiecrna said:


> He may have enjoyed it but not more than me



I think women sometimes underestimate the fun men can have when going down on their partner. If you had a line 50 single men, how many do you think would say no to giving oral to a woman? (Slightly depends on the type of woman, but probably only slightly).
I have just never read before that that is something one would feel smug about! It’s different than just blowing someone off...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## katiecrna

inmyprime said:


> I think women sometimes underestimate the fun men can have when going down on their partner. If you had a line 50 single men, how many do you think would say no to giving oral to a woman? (Slightly depends on the type of woman, but probably only slightly).
> I have just never read before that that is something one would feel smug about! It’s different than just blowing someone off...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Maybe. Maybe I don’t know men like I think I do. All I know is that I hate having a sexual encounter and leave without an orgasm... like I really really hate it.


----------



## katiecrna

Maybe I’m like a guy. If a women wanted to go down on a guy I’m sure he would have no problem with it. I’m wondering if this is a double standard.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Welll......That escalated quickly! I was here for the "car" issue. Shows how slow I am! ROFL!!! I was just thinking to myself, 10+ pages of pretty car posts? Nah....


And now we are on to "cunnilingus" . Outstanding!


----------



## Faithful Wife

katiecrna said:


> Maybe I’m like a guy. If a women wanted to go down on a guy I’m sure he would have no problem with it. I’m wondering if this is a double standard.


There is no problem with what you did. There is some minor **** shaming going on here, that’s all. 

Whether or not the guy was pissed he didn’t get an O or if he enjoyed the buffet and walked away feeling like a stud is irrelevant. You got yours. You don’t want more from him. He can feel however he wants about it.

Welcome to adulting and dating! All you need to focus on is growing and learning and having fun at this post divorce juncture. Part of learning is finding your own balance and that’s what occurred in this short fling. You balanced the good with the bad and then walked. Onwards and upwards with chin up and boobs out!


----------



## ReformedHubby

katiecrna said:


> Maybe I’m like a guy. If a women wanted to go down on a guy I’m sure he would have no problem with it. I’m wondering if this is a double standard.


Funny you should say that. I think you're right. An unreciprocated BJ isn't frowned on at all. In fact, they are awesome.


----------



## katiecrna

ReformedHubby said:


> Funny you should say that. I think you're right. An unreciprocated BJ isn't frowned on at all. In fact, they are awesome.




And that’s why I would never do that first.


----------



## ReformedHubby

katiecrna said:


> And that’s why I would never do that first.


Are guys out there really that selfish? With that said I do know some women that are more on the submissive side that like doing it just because, they don't always want something in return even if offered, it honestly makes me feel a little weird/guilty, but they seem content.


----------



## Adelais

katiecrna said:


> So I knew that guy was kind of playing me, he was super passive and didn’t really text me but we had a really good first date that lasted 4 hours. After when I didn’t hear from him I knew he was playing some sort of game... so I texted him... and he went to some festival near my house and I invited him over...only because I wanted to take advantage of him because I can play games too. So anyway long story short... i put on short shorts, tied up my t-shirt and was acting like I was cleaning. And of course I made my bed (haha). Anyway.... he came over, spent literally 10 hours at my apartment, it took him hours to finally make a move on me, and in the end he went down on me 4 times, and I orgasmed 3x, none of which he knew about on purpose and then I sent him home without touching him.


And you're proud of yourself?

You disrespected yourself by what you did, and then you bragged about it to us.

It is akin to people cutting themselves because they are in emotional pain. But you use orgasms and sex.

I don't get this generation.

katiecrna, I now believe you need to see a psychiatrist.


----------



## Mr.Married

Araucaria said:


> And you're proud of yourself?
> 
> You disrespected yourself by what you did, and then you bragged about it to us.
> 
> It is akin to people cutting themselves because they are in emotional pain. But you use orgasms and sex.
> 
> I don't get this generation.
> 
> katiecrna, I now believe you need to see a psychiatrist.


Or perhaps your just upset there are no buffets available East of Eden. Like InMyPrime implied .... going down on the girls is great fun....missing your fun?

No man has bragged about getting a girl? PPPFFFFttttt ...... yeah right


----------



## Adelais

azimuth said:


> Is this the same man who made the gold digger insinuations? I’m a tad confused as to why you’d be talking about such intimate details of your past marriage with him who was so rude to you accusing you of being a gold digger. Or invited him to your apartment and engaged in this game. I guess the whole thing is a little confusing to me. *I hope this isn’t what dating looks like today.*


It is what dating katiecrna looks like.


----------



## katiecrna

ReformedHubby said:


> Are guys out there really that selfish? With that said I do know some women that are more on the submissive side that like doing it just because, they don't always want something in return even if offered, it honestly makes me feel a little weird/guilty, but they seem content.




I think that I am more “selfish” than most. But how often do men go down on women without getting anything in return? Most men get sex or oral after going down on women. 
The amount of times that my stbxh has gone done on me without getting sex/oral is zero. The amount of times that I went down on him without getting anything in return is probably 20.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Araucaria said:


> And you're proud of yourself?
> 
> You disrespected yourself by what you did, and then you bragged about it to us.
> 
> It is akin to people cutting themselves because they are in emotional pain. But you use orgasms and sex.
> 
> I don't get this generation.
> 
> katiecrna, I now believe you need to see a psychiatrist.


Curious why you feel she disrespected herself? Sounds to me like she got exactly what she wanted.


----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> And you're proud of yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> You disrespected yourself by what you did, and then you bragged about it to us.
> 
> 
> 
> It is akin to people cutting themselves because they are in emotional pain. But you use orgasms and sex.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get this generation.
> 
> 
> 
> katiecrna, I now believe you need to see a psychiatrist.




What are you talking about!
So a guy that I am physically really attracted to, someone who is really physically attracted to me, someone I have strong sexual chemistry with wanted to go down on me and I let him. And this is comparable to someone who cuts themselves!??! That is insane and super offensive. I like sex, and sex is healthy and good for you. Trust me he wasn’t licking his wounds when he left, we both had a good time.


----------



## Andy1001

katiecrna said:


> ReformedHubby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you should say that. I think you're right. An unreciprocated BJ isn't frowned on at all. In fact, they are awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that’s why I would never do that first.
Click to expand...

Katie as a previous poster has said you’re threads appear to take on a life of their own. 
You don’t seem to mind the thread jacks so that’s ok. 
Have you ever read the novel “Great Expectations”.You appear to be a cross between Miss Havisham and her adopted daughter Estella. 
I admire this I have to admit.


----------



## Andy1001

katiecrna said:


> Araucaria said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you're proud of yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> You disrespected yourself by what you did, and then you bragged about it to us.
> 
> 
> 
> It is akin to people cutting themselves because they are in emotional pain. But you use orgasms and sex.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't get this generation.
> 
> 
> 
> katiecrna, I now believe you need to see a psychiatrist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about!
> So a guy that I am physically really attracted to, someone who is really physically attracted to me, someone I have strong sexual chemistry with wanted to go down on me and I let him. And this is comparable to someone who cuts themselves!??! That is insane and super offensive. I like sex, and sex is healthy and good for you. Trust me he wasn’t licking his wounds when he left, we both had a good time.
Click to expand...

He probably wasn’t able to lick anything after he left you. The guys tongue must be paralyzed by now. 🤐


----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> It is what dating katiecrna looks like.




We are not dating.


----------



## Mr.Married

katiecrna said:


> I think that I am more “selfish” than most. But how often do men go down on women without getting anything in return? Most men get sex or oral after going down on women.
> The amount of times that my stbxh has gone done on me without getting sex/oral is zero. The amount of times that I went down on him without getting anything in return is probably 20.



I get your point but I go south often for no return...and I think there is a misconception about how men enjoy doing that.....BUT...BUT...BUT.....Perhaps your right when it comes
to the dating scene.

My words are likely worthless though as I've been out the dating scene for a long time.


----------



## Adelais

It is no different than if a guy bragged like that about using a girl. "Oh I banged her hard, and made sure to do it in a way that she was sure to not orgasm! But I had mine! Ha!Ha! Stupid girl!"


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Andy1001 said:


> Katie as a previous poster has said you’re threads appear to take on a life of their own.
> You don’t seem to mind the thread jacks so that’s ok.
> Have you ever read the novel “Great Expectations”.You appear to be a cross between Miss Havisham and her adopted daughter Estella.
> I admire this I have to admit.


If you look at the thread starting history it quickly reminded me of when I used to be on Facebook. The people that posted these questions were typically divorced or single moms, maybe just coincidence but everyday there would be a post about something I would read and just think to myself, seems like an easy question to figure out on your own. Where do I find a good hairstylist, how do I get a passport, it's almost as if they were using Facebook as their own tailored Google Help Search, etc. Maybe I just don't understand social media as much as I did and maybe they are just taking full advantage of what's out there but it just seemed odd, like there was an ulterior reason for these posts, like to just get some interaction, attention, raise eyebrows ... etc, etc.


----------



## Mr.Married

Araucaria said:


> It is no different than if a guy bragged like that about using a girl. "Oh I banged her hard, and made sure to do it in a way that she was sure to not orgasm! But I had mine! Ha!Ha! Stupid girl!"


Yeah I was just saying it seems not unlikely to hear such a thing from a guy...but it is kind of like a double standard if a girl does it. I do get your point though.
Your other dating scene commit was pretty funny.


----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> It is what dating katiecrna looks like.




We are not dating.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Well I'm convinced. I'm never going to get into the dating game again. And that joke about the BMW and the porcupine is true.


----------



## Mr.Married

katiecrna said:


> We are not dating.


obviously :grin2:


----------



## Mr.Married

Mr. Nail said:


> Well I'm convinced. I'm never going to get into the dating game again.


So you don't like "heading" south do ya? *joking*


----------



## Adelais

And when did you stop dating?

After you had sex with him...unless you decide to meet with him again.

(Or is oral sex not sex in your book too?)


----------



## ReformedHubby

Araucaria said:


> It is no different than if a guy bragged like that about using a girl. "Oh I banged her hard, and made sure to do it in a way that she was sure to not orgasm! But I had mine! Ha!Ha! Stupid girl!"


LoL, no guy would ever say that. They would say she came a dozen times and they had sex for four hours straight (even if not true). Every man is a super stud when they give play by play.


----------



## Adelais

ReformedHubby said:


> LoL, no guy would ever say that. They would say she came a dozen times and they had sex for four hours straight (even if not true). Every man is a super stud when they give play by play.


So for a guy to say he got the gal to orgasm multiple times makes him look stud, but for katie to keep her date from having an orgasm while she has several makes her look like a stud. 

Very strange. It sounds abusive, or sadistic. katie, I think this is one of those things that you will look back on and say to yourself, "Why did I do that? I wish I hadn't behaved that way and respected myself more, rather than use him and humiliate him, even if only in my own mind."

(He knew you had an orgasm. He was right there and saw or felt the vaginal spasms. He kept going, as the guys have said, because he was having fun. Perhaps he didn't have PIV because he wanted to keep himself to himself. He won too.)


----------



## Mr. Nail

Mr.Married said:


> So you don't like "heading" south do ya? *joking*


No, it has nothing to do with what I like. It's more about whether or not it is worth it. I have no intention of being someones therapy tool. No, I take that back. I'm perfectly willing to be someones therapy tool, if everyone understands up front that it is all about therapy. But that would be an appointment, not a date.


----------



## 269370

katiecrna said:


> Maybe I’m like a guy. If a women wanted to go down on a guy I’m sure he would have no problem with it. I’m wondering if this is a double standard.




Yes interesting. I was gonna say that. Women always usually say ‘it’s not about the orgasm’. So it just goes to show that there is variability .


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----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> And when did you stop dating?
> 
> 
> 
> After you had sex with him...unless you decide to meet with him again.
> 
> 
> 
> (Or is oral sex not sex in your book too?)




We never dated. We went on one date and he didn’t call me. 
I pursued him. I called him. I told him to come over my house.


----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> And when did you stop dating?
> 
> 
> 
> After you had sex with him...unless you decide to meet with him again.
> 
> 
> 
> (Or is oral sex not sex in your book too?)





We never dated. We went on one date and he didn’t call me. 
I pursued him. I called him. I told him to come over my house.


----------



## FrenchFry

.


----------



## sa58

How you live your life is up to you.
You have obviously worked hard to
get everything you have and want.
As long as you are not hurting anything
or anyone (including yourself ) live a great life.

From reading your posts however I do think
there is a lot of anger, hurt, and frustration
( as you said issues ) that you may want to 
address. Maybe because of your stbxh, family,
or other things that have happened in your life.
Your perception of how others see you, family
included. How you seemingly pick toxic men to
pursue. 

If you do not deal with these things now they will
eventually consume your entire life. You may find 
yourself growing older and bitter about everything.
That is no way to live. You need to live your life
to the fullest.

Live your life for yourself, not other people.


----------



## EleGirl

@katiecrna

I have not read all the replies on this thread but want to put in my 2 cents.

I think I read yesterday some people posting that you are gold digger because you want a guy who earns an income close to yours or a little bit higher. My understanding is that the reason for this is that you earn your own money and you do not want to be the financial support for some guy. That's not what a gold digger is. 

A gold digger is a person who is looking to get into a relationship with someone who has a high income and lots of assets so that they can be supported at the level to which they would like to become accustomed. You don't fit this because you have your own income/money and you are not looking for some guy to support you.

You simply want a guy who is your education and financial equivalent. In my book, that's smart.

There are a lot of guys who want the same thing. They want a woman who will not be a drain on them financially, they want her to educated. They also want lots of nice stuff for themselves. I've read that when wealthy men use a match maker, they almost always specify that they woman has to be their equivalent both in education and financially. They want a woman who is financially independent. Makes perfect sense to me.

Most people who earn a good income work hard to get all the nice things they want. It's sad that you think you have been made to feel like somehow you are a gold digger or uppity because you strive to be well educated, have a good income and have some nice things since you worked your behind off to earn the money. You should not allow yourself to feel bad for doing what most people who earn good incomes do.

Also, it's sad, but women need to be careful about marrying a guy who earns a lot less than they do. Apparently, men who earn less then their wife often have a problem with it. They cheat at almost double the rate of men who earn the same or more than their wife. It's sad, but you increase the chance that your husband will cheat if you earn significantly more than he does.

Your a smart woman.


----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> So for a guy to say he got the gal to orgasm multiple times makes him look stud, but for katie to keep her date from having an orgasm while she has several makes her look like a stud.
> 
> Very strange. It sounds abusive, or sadistic. katie, I think this is one of those things that you will look back on and say to yourself, "Why did I do that? I wish I hadn't behaved that way and respected myself more, rather than use him and humiliate him, even if only in my own mind."
> 
> (He knew you had an orgasm. He was right there and saw or felt the vaginal spasms. He kept going, as the guys have said, because he was having fun. Perhaps he didn't have PIV because he wanted to keep himself to himself. He won too.)




Sorry but your wrong. Your getting the wrong impression. 
He didn’t like me like that, that’s why he didn’t call me. I didn’t like him like that. We were both convenient for each other. And I didn’t make him do anything. He loved it trust me. Some guys love to please women. He did do it 4 freakin times after all! This is not abusive. Your being so dramatic. This is literally the second time seeing this guy.


----------



## john117

ReformedHubby said:


> LoL, no guy would ever say that. They would say she came a dozen times and they had sex for four hours straight (even if not true). Every man is a super stud when they give play by play.


Or in their own mind


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lots of **** shaming going on.

Sorry about that Kat. Learn to ignore it.


----------



## 269370

ReformedHubby said:


> Are guys out there really that selfish? With that said I do know some women that are more on the submissive side that like doing it just because, they don't always want something in return even if offered, it honestly makes me feel a little weird/guilty, but they seem content.



BJ doesn’t have to be to completion; in fact if it’s happening first, I usually interrupt after a while, to do other stuff.

Strange, that dynamic where you are worried that something may not be reciprocated.

Not something I ever experienced myself. Perhaps it’s more likely with flings, rather than LTRs.



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----------



## 269370

Araucaria said:


> So for a guy to say he got the gal to orgasm multiple times makes him look stud, but for katie to keep her date from having an orgasm while she has several makes her look like a stud.
> 
> Very strange. It sounds abusive, or sadistic. katie, I think this is one of those things that you will look back on and say to yourself, "Why did I do that? I wish I hadn't behaved that way and respected myself more, rather than use him and humiliate him, even if only in my own mind."
> 
> (He knew you had an orgasm. He was right there and saw or felt the vaginal spasms. He kept going, as the guys have said, because he was having fun. Perhaps he didn't have PIV because he wanted to keep himself to himself. He won too.)



Yes, I’m not sure why it has to be an orgasm competition. I’m just purely thinking from having a daughter myself, point of view...I think if I was bringing her up and she really needed (for whatever reason) to ‘stick it’ to a guy, I know I would feel obliterated inside, and that I maybe have done something wrong, if that was the way she felt she should be sticking it to him ...

Maybe I misunderstood the story, but something seemed already wrong in the beginning, when you felt that he blew you off or was ignoring your texts. There is a chance that his lack of response was perhaps misunderstood, and if in fact he IS an ******* or weirdo, as you perceived him, then the best course of action is to just ignore him back and not have anything to do with him and find somebody nice to orgasm together with...

I don’t want to appear judgemental, because it already happened so it’s too late.


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----------



## Adelais

katiecrna said:


> *We had a great first date. We went out for drinks. He was checking me out, told me I was beautiful, we stayed for 4 hours talking and laughing.It was a good date. *
> 
> He didn’t text me, and he didn’t have to and I’m fine with that. I’m direct, and I texted him. We talked a little,* he was super nice blah blah. *
> 
> *When we were together the first and second time you would of thought this guy was falling for me. He was so nice, complimenting me so much blah* blah. Like really working hard to get me to like him. Then his thing is to not text after. It’s weird.





katiecrna said:


> So I knew that guy was kind of playing me, he was super passive and didn’t really text me but *we had a really good first date that lasted 4 hours.* After when I didn’t hear from him I knew he was playing some sort of game... so I texted him... and he went to some festival near my house and I invited him over...only because I wanted to take advantage of him because I can play games too. So anyway long story short... i put on short shorts, tied up my t-shirt and was acting like I was cleaning. And of course I made my bed (haha). Anyway.... he came over, spent literally 10 hours at my apartment, it took him hours to finally make a move on me, and in the end he went down on me
> 4 times, and I orgasmed 3x, none of which he knew about on purpose and then I sent him home without touching him.





katiecrna said:


> Hahahaha I agree. That was random. The point of that post was to show that I knew he was a jerk and Im not an idiot and *I can play games and take advantage of people too.*





katiecrna said:


> We are not dating.





katiecrna said:


> We never dated. We went on one date and he didn’t call me.
> I pursued him. I called him. I told him to come over my house.


By your own words you dated him at least twice and you liked him! He was super nice to you, and you thought he was into you. Even when he made the comment about nurses being golddiggers, (you can look for your posts about that) you weren't upset with him.

You became upset with him when he didn't call you, so you pursued him by texting him and inviting him over....so you could get "even" with him.

Your posts are all over the place:

He was so nice....he's a jerk!

You could tell he was into me.....he was playing with my mind.

We had a great date, two dates!......we weren't dating.

As per your statement that you "can take advantage of people too," how did he take advantage of you by being super nice to you, but not getting back in touch with you later?? If he realized you weren't the one for him, it makes sense for him to not call you again. He only came over because your pursued him.

katie, I'm not trying to be mean. It is just that you have said many contradictory things on this thread, and it is looking more and more like you need the help of a psychiatrist.


----------



## RandomDude

I'm also confused as ****.

One thing I just don't get too like, so proud, of using sex as a weapon. Well guess neither party is complaining. 

Still, even in one-night-stands shouldn't there be at least some measure of respect for sexual partners? Reminds me why I always tried to go for a minimum of FWB-arrangements if there was to be casual sex.

Maybe I'm just too old school.


----------



## wilson

I'm not sure if this is the right board for you. Of course you can be here and share your story, but this kind of behavior is not really conducive to finding a life-long mate. And it's not because you're a woman. I'd say the same thing to a guy who was saying how he was stringing girls along for his own pleasure. I don't have any problem with FWB or no-strings-attached relationships. It's perfectly fine to have some wild fun, but this board is more about marriage and lasting relationships. People here are trying to work on their relationships which are multi-decades long or they hope to be. Going out with shallow guys like this is not likely to end up with a meaningful relationship. Inviting him over to have manipulative, revenge sex is not likely to end up with a meaningful relationship. If you really want to find someone to spend a lifetime with, you'll have to change your outlook. But if you are having fun dating these guys, then go for it! But be honest with your self about the long-term outcome. This kind of behavior is likely to just end up with more short-term flings rather than a life-long marriage.


----------



## 269370

If I can make an analogy (sorry). It’s a little bit like if a guy came here to say that there’s this mean girl who has been ignoring his advances all this time and didn’t want to have anything to do with him and to really really show it her, he wired her $100k and bought her a Ferrari and never called her again....

That’s not **** shaming at all. I think a lot of guys are genuinely scratching their heads where the revenge part comes into this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> By your own words you dated him at least twice and you liked him! He was super nice to you, and you thought he was into you. Even when he made the comment about nurses being golddiggers, (you can look for your posts about that) you weren't upset with him.
> 
> You became upset with him when he didn't call you, so you pursued him by texting him and inviting him over....so you could get "even" with him.
> 
> Your posts are all over the place:
> 
> He was so nice....he's a jerk!
> 
> You could tell he was into me.....he was playing with my mind.
> 
> We had a great date, two dates!......we weren't dating.
> 
> As per your statement that you "can take advantage of people too," how did he take advantage of you by being super nice to you, but not getting back in touch with you later?? If he realized you weren't the one for him, it makes sense for him to not call you again. He only came over because your pursued him.
> 
> katie, I'm not trying to be mean. It is just that you have said many contradictory things on this thread, and it is looking more and more like you need the help of a psychiatrist.




It’s not contradictory to me. 
He is a nice guy, but he is toxic. Nice guys can have issues and but be good for you. I am a really nice girl, but I have issues and I am probably toxic to a certain type of guy who has certain issues. 
This guy is nice but has issues that are not compatible with a healthy relationship to ME.

We went on a date ONCE. The second time I told him to come over... that is not a date.


----------



## uhtred

Seems a strange game to play. I'm always happy to give my partner as many Os as she wants. 

It is an interesting attitude though, because my wife seems to feel that way. While I'm happy to give her an O anytime she wants, without reciprocation, she feels that if I do it for her she *owes* me one, and may not feel like doing it. I sometimes wonder if that is why she usually insists on only one O per session - because otherwise she would feel that she needs to pay me back. 

You must O very quietly if he didn't notice. My wife has given herself minor whiplash on several occasions from flailing. 




katiecrna said:


> So in my marriage I had this rule... if I don’t orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm. So I was telling this guy about it and he thought it was a good rule. So he was trying really hard to get me to orgasm which is why he went down on me so much. So I pretended like I was close... then I stopped him. But in reality I did orgasm I just never told him for obvious reasons. So we would stop for a while and he would try again not knowing that I did orgasm again... hahaha. So after the fourth time and third orgasm it was getting late so I sent him home with him thinking he couldn’t make me orgasm. Yea I’m mean.


----------



## uhtred

I'm surprised you would be willing to have sex with someone when you had such a low opinion of them. 

Why not just tell him to take a hike?



katiecrna said:


> No. Some people need to learn a lesson. I’m sure he has no idea that he is emotionally manipulative. He is going to keep going around saying all these women are crazy and that’s why he’s single. He opened up to me and told me about why his relationships have failed and all this stuff and how he’s stubborn and loves to push buttons and all the women he dates eventually get crazy. It’s like come on dude it’s not the women it’s you.


----------



## Adelais

katiecrna said:


> It’s not contradictory to me.
> He is a nice guy, but he is toxic. Nice guys can have issues and but be good for you. I am a really nice girl, but I have issues and I am probably toxic to a certain type of guy who has certain issues.
> This guy is nice but has issues that are not compatible with a healthy relationship to ME.
> 
> *We went on a date ONCE.* The second time I told him to come over... that is not a date.





katiecrna said:


> *When we were together the first and second time you would of thought this guy was falling for me. He was so nice, complimenting me so much blah blah.* Like really working hard to get me to like him. Then his thing is to not text after. It’s weird.


According to this quote from you, you were together twice, and you thought the guy was falling for you. You were upset he didn't text you afterwards.

So what you are saying now is that both times (the date and the sex) he acted like he was really into you and the two of you had a really good time together. Were you saying in your quote in blue that you are upset and think he is weird for not texting you after having sex?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Kat - you are newly divorced. Is it even final yet? You have been through an emotional trauma via losing what you thought was the love of your life and a lifetime relationship and family.

This is the time when you should be kicking the dust off your heels, dating, exploring, and yes having NSA sex if you want to. 

It is also the time we are allowed to make mistakes, learn from them, and stumble our way along as we are healing from the divorce and getting ready to be ready for a partnership again.

It takes time. The fun side trips along the way, like getting face time from a guy, and even bad dates (they make great stories!) are all helping you ease into the state of readiness for your next guy.

Please don't listen to the **** shamers, and don't justify what you did. There was nothing wrong with it and it doesn't matter if others don't like your logic or your morals. They are not you and they are not in your shoes. You are doing great. A year from now I predict you will be in an relationship that is so awesome you will wonder why you stayed so long with your ex, and all the toads kissed along the way will be worth it.


----------



## Adelais

Faithful Wife said:


> Lots of **** shaming going on.
> 
> Sorry about that Kat. Learn to ignore it.


Nope. You've got a red herring going on there. 

The issue is not that katie is a gal. A guy treating women the way katie treated her guy would get the same comments from me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Araucaria said:


> Nope. You've got a red herring going on there.
> 
> The issue is not that katie is a gal. A guy treating women the way katie treated her guy would get the same comments from me.


It is **** shaming whether it is said to a guy or a gal.


----------



## azimuth

Faithful Wife said:


> Kat - you are newly divorced. Is it even final yet? You have been through an emotional trauma via losing what you thought was the love of your life and a lifetime relationship and family.
> 
> This is the time when you should be kicking the dust off your heels, dating, exploring, and yes having NSA sex if you want to.
> 
> It is also the time we are allowed to make mistakes, learn from them, and stumble our way along as we are healing from the divorce and getting ready to be ready for a partnership again.
> 
> It takes time. The fun side trips along the way, like getting face time from a guy, and even bad dates (they make great stories!) are all helping you ease into the state of readiness for your next guy.
> 
> Please don't listen to the **** shamers, and don't justify what you did. There was nothing wrong with it and it doesn't matter if others don't like your logic or your morals. They are not you and they are not in your shoes. You are doing great. A year from now I predict you will be in an relationship that is so awesome you will wonder why you stayed so long with your ex, and all the toads kissed along the way will be worth it.



I don't see it as criticizing NSA sex. I see confusion as to why she pretended not to have an O when she had three.


----------



## DustyDog

katiecrna said:


> Ok men... what if you meet this nice girl and you see her car and it’s a really nice sports car? Does this change your opinion about her?
> 
> The reason I’m asking is because I seem to get labeled as a gold digger, or someone who looks like I COULD be one. And I’m super annoyed by this because I like a couple nice things like shoes for example and I can afford shoes. For the record I make my own money and I make good money.
> I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed. So right away his guard was up. For the record, I like the way I dress, and I like what I like. So I need a new car because mine is breaking down and I’m thinking of getting a M4 but don’t know if men will be intimidated by this.


If I look at someone, I can't tell if they're nice. I can tell if they believe in spending money on appearances. I can tell if they like expensive possessions. If I see them walking or standing, I can tell if they have bothered to keep their muscles toned, if they have developed elegant methods of moving. Out of all this, about all I can tell about them is whether they like to spend money and whether they work on keeping themselves the best, physically, they can be.

So a person drives an expensive car. What does that tell me? It suggests they need a lifestyle - do I want to support that lifestyle? Would they expect me to raise my expenses to meet it?

Gold digger? How would I know that expensive thing you own was paid for by someone else? That's a gold digger. If I see a man or woman in an expensive car, I assume they bought it themselves since that is the normal situation.


When you buy expensive things, are you doing it because you enjoy using those expensive things? Or do you buy them in anticipation of creating a certain image? If you're doing it for the first, then you're doing it for yourself. If you're doing it to create an image, then you have a high need for validation by others. Neither is bad. Just make sure that the reason you're doing it is a reason that you approve of.


----------



## uhtred

Very often. I've probably given my wife oral 20X as often as she has done it for me. Until very recently she wouldn't do it at all. I'd say in roughly half of our encounters she gets an O, but is too tired (selfish?) to give me one. 

With other women, I've generally given them a lot more Os than I get because most women can O multiple times in a session, while most men can't. 

If you are running into men that don't enjoy pleasing you in bed, you need to look for a different place to find partners. 




katiecrna said:


> I think that I am more “selfish” than most. But how often do men go down on women without getting anything in return? Most men get sex or oral after going down on women.
> The amount of times that my stbxh has gone done on me without getting sex/oral is zero. The amount of times that I went down on him without getting anything in return is probably 20.


----------



## EllisRedding

azimuth said:


> I don't see it as criticizing NSA sex. I see confusion as to why she pretended not to have an O when she had three.


I think this is the part that just seems off. You could argue that she basically misled this guy since her pretending to not O meant she didn't have to reciprocate any sort of act on him.


----------



## azimuth

EllisRedding said:


> I think this is the part that just seems off. You could argue that she basically misled this guy since her pretending to not O meant she didn't have to reciprocate any sort of act on him.


She wanted to deny him the satisfaction that he could make her come. But obviously he he knows she did, so then it just kind of turns into a game. She denied herself the full enjoyment of the encounter because she was trying to teach him a lesson that he wouldn’t necessarily view as humbling anyway.


----------



## uhtred

I don't think its XXXX shaming. Most of the comments have involved her a apparent pride at having caused her partner to do things for her but not reciprocating, combined with the sense that she was using the lack of Os to "punish" him for being a bad person. She has already said that Os are very important to her so I assume she thinks that they are important to others.

If I were not married, I'd happily date a woman who had an active and varied sex life. Absolutely no negative feelings about that at all. I would however never date someone who played this sort of game. 

I don't want to sound too negative - I don't believe she is immoral or evil in any way, but I would not want to be with someone who acted like that. 





Faithful Wife said:


> It is **** shaming whether it is said to a guy or a gal.


----------



## FrenchFry

.


----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> According to this quote from you, you were together twice, and you thought the guy was falling for you. You were upset he didn't text you afterwards.
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are saying now is that both times (the date and the sex) he acted like he was really into you and the two of you had a really good time together. Were you saying in your quote in blue that you are upset and think he is weird for not texting you after having sex?




No. The first and only date he didn’t text me after.
The second time we were together when I told him to come over... he was telling me how this girl he went on a few dates with freaked out on him because he didn’t text her for a few days. SHE was yelling at him saying that he ghosted her. He was telling me how “crazy” she was and he didn’t talk to her after that. 
My point is that this is what this guy does.


----------



## EllisRedding

azimuth said:


> She wanted to deny him the satisfaction that he could make her come. But obviously he he knows she did, so then it just kind of turns into a game. She denied herself the full enjoyment of the encounter because she was trying to teach him a lesson that he wouldn’t necessarily view as humbling anyway.


Could be in part, but if you actually read her post below she states that they did talk about her orgasm rule. It does come across that part of the reason why she faked it (funny, most people fake having an O, not the other way around) was to not have to touch him. Having that conversation, I am sure it was at least in the back of his head that if she did O he would see some action too (seems reasonable)



> So in my marriage I had this rule... if I don’t orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm. So I was telling this guy about it and he thought it was a good rule. So he was trying really hard to get me to orgasm which is why he went down on me so much. So I pretended like I was close... then I stopped him. But in reality I did orgasm I just never told him for obvious reasons. So we would stop for a while and he would try again not knowing that I did orgasm again... hahaha. So after the fourth time and third orgasm it was getting late so I sent him home with him thinking he couldn’t make me orgasm. Yea I’m mean.


----------



## 269370

Yeah, I think you need to take time. And NOT date for now. Especially guys who you think are jerks. The risk is too high that you will project your ex onto them and potentially harm yourself.

You said you ex never/rarely reciprocated? It’s too much of a coincidence that you then decide to do the same to the other guy...I don’t think a good therapist is a bad idea. You don’t want to be going on a ‘revenge’ trip by letting jerks going down town on you. Personal opinion. Feel free to disregard it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having short flings once you are ready till you find the right guy.

Don’t know why people keep bringing up ‘**** shaming’. It’s nothing of the sort. As usual, this kind of attitude just ensures once again they will be shooting themselves in the foot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## azimuth

EllisRedding said:


> Could be in part, but if you actually read her post below she states that they did talk about her orgasm rule. It does come across that part of the reason why she faked it (funny, most people fake having an O, not the other way around) was to not have to touch him. Having that conversation, I am sure it was at least in the back of his head that if she did O he would see some action too (seems reasonable)


I did read her post and I responded to it. When I say she denied herself the full enjoyment of the encounter I meant not faking her o’s. Not that she had to touch him to fully enjoy herself. Pretending not to have an o is not fun to me. It reminds me of MB’ing when I was a kid and not wanting anyone in the house to hear.


----------



## EllisRedding

azimuth said:


> I did read her post and I responded to it. When I say she denied herself the full enjoyment of the encounter I meant not faking her o’s. Not that she had to touch him to fully enjoy herself. Pretending not to have an o is not fun to me. It reminds me of MB’ing when I was a kid and not wanting anyone in the house to hear.


From the way Katie has described, it sounds like she got as good of an experience as possible out of it, considering there was no sort of emotional attachment / investment in the guy.


----------



## Adelais

katiecrna said:


> *When we were together the first and second time you would of thought this guy was falling for me. He was so nice, complimenting me so much blah blah.* Like really working hard to get me to like him. Then his thing is to not text after. It’s weird.


katie, what do you mean by all this?

Why would you be so upset that he didn't text you after only one date? Doesn't he have the right to decide after one date if he likes you, or anyone else for that matter? I think his biggest mistake was simply telling you how he handled other mismatches and how they responded (by becoming crazy.)

You also called him passive, and a jerk. Why would being so nice to you on a date, then not texting you afterwards (because you aren't his typed) make him out to be passive or a jerk? What would you have wanted him to do after only one date....text you saying that there won't be a second date because you aren't his type?

I would expect some sort of explanation after, say 4 dates, but after just 1, no.

Again, I think you were insulted that the Dr. wasn't into you and showed it by not texting you, so you decided to get even with him by using sex. However, it backfired according to the men of TAM, because he got (some) enjoyment out of it, even if he didn't get his O, while you showed him and everyone here that you are the type of person who uses sex as a weapon.


----------



## azimuth

FrenchFry said:


> Because she didn't want to give him the ego kibbles. You see it happening right now: No, dude - it was totally just as awesome for him because he had his face in a vagina! Pfft, yeah okay.
> 
> I do think it's kind of a jerk move to fake it (even if I understand the "why") but I have a bridge to sell you if non-reciprocal oral sex without an apparent orgasm from either side is something people are willing to put up with for the sheer experience.
> 
> Please, date people. Learn from your mistakes and have fun.


Non-reciprocal sex a turn on for lots of people, myself included. I’d love to spend an hour down there doing nothing but that, and not have anything done to me “in return” it’s that satisfying to me. I know I’m not alone in that because men have offered to me the same thing.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Let’s review the facts.

Grown ass woman. Grown ass man. Not a match but she got some jollies out of it. No one was harmed. The end. Next!


----------



## EllisRedding

So ..... still thinking about getting that BMW Katie?


----------



## Mr. Nail

katiecrna said:


> So in my marriage I had this rule... if I don’t orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm. So I was telling this guy about it and *he thought it was a good rule*. So he was trying really hard to get me to orgasm which is why he went down on me so much. So I pretended like I was close... then I stopped him. But in reality I did orgasm I just never told him for obvious reasons. So we would stop for a while and he would try again not knowing that I did orgasm again... hahaha. So after the fourth time and third orgasm it was getting late so I sent him home with him thinking he couldn’t make me orgasm. Yea I’m mean.


He only thought it was a good rule because he didn't hear the latest amendment,
Full text of new rule:
if I don’t orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm, if I do orgasm then he doesn’t orgasm.


----------



## katiecrna

Araucaria said:


> katie, what do you mean by all this?
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you be so upset that he didn't text you after only one date? Doesn't he have the right to decide after one date if he likes you, or anyone else for that matter? I think his biggest mistake was simply telling you how he handled other mismatches and how they responded (by becoming crazy.)
> 
> 
> 
> You also called him passive, and a jerk. Why would being so nice to you on a date, then not texting you afterwards (because you aren't his typed) make him out to be passive or a jerk? What would you have wanted him to do after only one date....text you saying that there won't be a second date because you aren't his type?
> 
> 
> 
> I would expect some sort of explanation after, say 4 dates, but after just 1, no.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I think you were insulted that the Dr. wasn't into you and showed it by not texting you, so you decided to get even with him by using sex. However, it backfired according to the men of TAM, because he got (some) enjoyment out of it, even if he didn't get his O, while you showed him and everyone here that you are the type of person who uses sex as a weapon.




Like I said before... he had every right not to call me after the first date. It’s not a big deal. I had a good time, and I think he did too, which is why I texted him. I have no problem being direct and texting a man. 
I could tell that he liked me after the first date which is why I was confused that he didn’t call me. So I texted him. It’s not a big deal. We talked, we flirted. And I saw an opportunity to see him again so I invited him over. And again I could tell he was into me. Complimenting me a lot. Basically telling me that I am his dream girl physically. And he was telling me about “crazy” girls that he dated... and how one got mad because he ghosted her even though he liked her. It was all strange. I could tell then that he had some weird passive issues. 

He is a really nice guy when we talk and hang out. But there is obviously some weird issues. I can tell he likes me or at least enjoys my company... the first date out for drinks lasted 4 hours. When he came over he stayed on my small apartment for 10hrs.


----------



## katiecrna

I don’t know why everyone feels bad for this guy. He is totally fine. He had a good time. He did not hint to me that he wanted me to go down on him. I’m sure he did, but he didn’t say anything to me. He opened up about his sexual issues and told me that he has a hard time orgasming. And he never does with oral sex.


----------



## katiecrna

He told me... physically I am his dream. Freckles make him melt. He loves small breasts and told me I have the most perfect cute boobs. He told me he likes dating girls In the medical field Bc he can talk about his day and be understood. He told me about all the other “crazy” women he dated. He told me that his one concern was that I am Christian and he isn’t and he asked me if I would ever date a non Christian and I said yes. ALL THAT and the amount of time he spent with me.... I mean come on he is giving off the impression that he is into me. I am not crazy by thinking this. 

He does and says all that then doesn’t call...you guys can say whatever you want but THAT is really weird.

So my question is why would he do that?? I know the answer to that because I was married to somebody like that.

Edit: let me go further... he told me he is looking for a serious relationship. He told me that his mom got diagnosed with cancer recently and he got choked up telling me that his one regret will be that he won’t give him mom grand kids (he is a only child).


----------



## wilson

Some guys are players and get off on getting women to chase them. If you had clear skin and big boobs he might have said those made him melt. Guys say a lot of things trying to score with women.

Have you ever been out in public and seen guys going through Tinder profiles? What they sometimes do is swipe right as fast as they can without even looking. They don't read the profile or even look at the picture. Then whichever women reply they say whatever they think she wants to hear. She has long hair? I love long hair! She has short hair? I love short hair! Some guys are just looking to put as many notches on their belt as they can.


----------



## katiecrna

wilson said:


> Some guys are players and get off on getting women to chase them. If you had clear skin and big boobs he might have said those made him melt. Guys say a lot of things trying to score with women.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever been out in public and seen guys going through Tinder profiles? What they sometimes do is swipe right as fast as they can without even looking. They don't read the profile or even look at the picture. Then whichever women reply they say whatever they think she wants to hear. She has long hair? I love long hair! She has short hair? I love short hair! Some guys are just looking to put as many notches on their belt as they can.




Exactly. I knew that he was playing mind games with me. That is why I did what I did.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I think people are making comments saying that the OP is disrespecting herself because they have this idealized image in their head of how a lady should conduct herself. But the reality is women are just as sexual as we are. @katiecrna did what guys do all the time. All she honestly did was the standard booty call. I was under the assumption that most adults past a certain age have been on both sides of that call/text. Apparently not....I guess booty calls are going to bring down our society...


----------



## SentHereForAReason

ReformedHubby said:


> I think people are making comments saying that the OP is disrespecting herself because they have this idealized image in their head of how a lady should conduct herself. But the reality is women are just as sexual as we are. @katiecrna did what guys do all the time. All she honestly did was the standard booty call. I was under the assumption that most adults past a certain age have been on both sides of that call/text. Apparently not....I guess booty calls are going to bring down our society...


That may be the same case with some people sure but I think at least a few others were concerned at not the sexual acts but the, to be honest, manipulation that went into it and she was not shy about being proud of what she did.


----------



## katiecrna

stillfightingforus said:


> That may be the same case with some people sure but I think at least a few others were concerned at not the sexual acts but the, to be honest, manipulation that went into it and she was not shy about being proud of what she did.




Your right I am proud of myself. If this happened to me years ago I would of been a mess. I am easy to taken advantage of... or at least I use to be.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

katiecrna said:


> Your right I am proud of myself. If this happened to me years ago I would of been a mess. I am easy to taken advantage of... or at least I use to be.


That's the thing, you are better than this! Don't be what was wronged to you. You can go out and have fun, 'let your hair down' but without the extra level of 'control'.


----------



## sa58

Wow !!

Came back to this thread and I see we are still discussing
your sex life !! WHY ? Two consenting adults can do what 
ever they want. They often do!! As long as it is safe and fun
what is the problem ? Anybody ever hear of a one night stand ?
Happens all of the time. This just took two dates to get there.


Katie you have talked about having some issues a few times.
What are your plans for the future ? Post divorce. I hope you
take sometime for yourself. Date and have fun just be careful 
and safe.

I am concerned however because since my son's 
divorce he seemingly has gone from one bad relationship
to another. Even a couple of ONS. I sometimes think he is
still hurting and trying to ease his pain. His divorce was 
final two years ago. I think he is afraid to try a long lasting
relationship again He denies it and says he is just having fun.

Running away from it will not work. Standing up and dealing with it will. 

Best of luck it the future and have a glorious sex life. LOL

.


----------



## uhtred

I don't think that is it. If she or any woman wants to have casual sex, tha'ts great, no problem at all. 

What has bothered me, and probably others, is her pretending not to O, presumably with the goal of either making her partner feel inadequate, or of not feeling like she needed to reciprocate for what he did for her. If I'm wrong, I hope she will correctly me, but it seemed like she took satisfaction from having "used" him for her pleasure without giving anything back, even if he was OK with the experience. 

I haven't seen anyone object to the booty call. 

Yes, sometimes men selfishly use women for sex, but most of us have a very low opinion of men who do that. 



ReformedHubby said:


> I think people are making comments saying that the OP is disrespecting herself because they have this idealized image in their head of how a lady should conduct herself. But the reality is women are just as sexual as we are. @katiecrna did what guys do all the time. All she honestly did was the standard booty call. I was under the assumption that most adults past a certain age have been on both sides of that call/text. Apparently not....I guess booty calls are going to bring down our society...


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Faithful Wife said:


> There is no problem with what you did. There is some minor **** shaming going on here, that’s all.
> 
> Whether or not the guy was pissed he didn’t get an O or if he enjoyed the buffet and walked away feeling like a stud is irrelevant. You got yours. You don’t want more from him. He can feel however he wants about it.
> 
> Welcome to adulting and dating! All you need to focus on is growing and learning and having fun at this post divorce juncture. Part of learning is finding your own balance and that’s what occurred in this short fling. You balanced the good with the bad and then walked. Onwards and upwards with chin up and boobs out!


Couldn't skip past this post without a reply. 

This is basically the same thing men get called dogs for. First of all, she doesn't like the guy. She just wanted to "get hers" and **** his feelings right? Use him up like a toy and toss him out like last week's news paper. Its irrelevant weather or not he got his, because she got hers. Even though she doesn't like the guy. I'm going through my checklist and checking the **** box on item one. ✔

2) she is playing a game with the guy. Using him for her own sexual gratification. Not once, not twice, not three times, but four times she got hers. With no intention of even caring about him at all. In fact, she even stated his ego needs to take a hit. So basically she figured she could get hers, use him as a toy, all so she could make that guy feel like crap about himself. Checking item two on the **** box again. ✔

Tres, the idea that a man would use up a woman he knows he doesn't like to "get his" and doesn't give a single **** about that girl would be highly frowned upon by virtually every woman alive. Now mix in the fact that not only did she use him, she played mind games to destroy his self confidence. Imagine a girl gets used by a guy, then further, the guy knew what he was doing and only did it to check a woman's ego. To purposefully hurt her. Use sex as a weapon against her, only to bring self doubt in her, knowing full well he doesn't like, respect, or care about her whatsoever. Would you tell that same guy "however she feels about it is irrelevant. You got yours dude. She can feel however she wants about it. There is no problem with what you did. Theres just some minor man ***** shaming going on here, that's all" ??? Highly ****ing doubt it. 

Quatre, encouraging a woman who is looking for a serious relationship to walk forward from using up a man, chin up and boobs out after dismissing all of her behaviour is basically telling her to continue to be a ****. Get yours. To hell with these guys, and you will find the one. You don't think a middle aged guy isn't going to be on the lookout for this behaviour? With their experience? They will spot a **** a mile away. What will happen is they will return the favor she just did to this other guy. Then bounce because obviously she can't be genuine at this point. They will also say to themselves, "****, no wonder she is still single. That is damaged goods right there" 

Sometimes people need tough love. I get it. She is a woman, you are a woman. You will give the benefit of the doubt, like men give DB men the benefit of the doubt more often then not. But that wont help them if they are truly looking for a good relationship with a good person and a good fit for them. I think your words stear her towards making some of the same decisions that she made with her first marriage, and this guy. Seeking out dirt bags and low lifes. Use them up and continue on to the next, wondering why all men are crap while simultaneously being the exact reason some men are crap. 

Bad advice on your part imo. No guy wants to settle down with a girl still playing games to get hers. Just like no woman wants a guy playing games in the later rounds of the draft just to get his. 

Here is the Truth Katie, you are drafting in the later rounds. All the first round draft picks are gone. You can run your organization like the Cleveland Browns and pick up bust after bust. Or you can do your due diligence and and find a Tom Brady in the 4th. Based on this thread alone, you are running your own franchise like Cleveland. Time to turn the franchise around figure out how to spot a sleeper. Instead of picking up bust after bust.


----------



## EllisRedding

uhtred said:


> I don't think that is it. If she or any woman wants to have casual sex, tha'ts great, no problem at all.
> 
> What has bothered me, and probably others, is her pretending not to O, presumably with the goal of either making her partner feel inadequate, or of not feeling like she needed to reciprocate for what he did for her. If I'm wrong, I hope she will correctly me, but it seemed like she took satisfaction from having "used" him for her pleasure without giving anything back, even if he was OK with the experience.
> 
> I haven't seen anyone object to the booty call.
> 
> Yes, sometimes men selfishly use women for sex, but most of us have a very low opinion of men who do that.


A different way to look at it as well. Let's say this dude went downtown 4 times simply because he was trying to get the elusive O that Katie was hiding from him. Now, let's say if she had made it clear after his first session that she O'd, would he have gone downtown an additional 3 times? 

I am guessing that if a guy came on here bragging about how he tricked/mis-led his date into performing additional sex acts, all hell would break loose (name calling, what a dog, etc...) ... Obviously no one forced Downtown Julio Brown (his nickname ) to go down any of those times and he may have very well enjoyed it, but was he mis-led into performing additional acts?


----------



## 269370

I think people miss the wider picture in this story; which is unfortunately full of irony. 

The person to feel sorry for is not the guy, it’s the girl in this case. And I can’t believe other women, who should know better, are egging her on to continue on this path. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

inmyprime said:


> I think people miss the wider picture in this story; which is unfortunately full of irony.
> 
> The person to feel sorry for is not the guy, it’s the girl in this case. And I can’t believe other women, who should know better, are egging her on to continue on this path.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bingo. "There's nothing wrong with how the Browns run their franchise"


----------



## Faithful Wife

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no problem with what you did. There is some minor **** shaming going on here, that’s all.
> 
> Whether or not the guy was pissed he didn’t get an O or if he enjoyed the buffet and walked away feeling like a stud is irrelevant. You got yours. You don’t want more from him. He can feel however he wants about it.
> 
> Welcome to adulting and dating! All you need to focus on is growing and learning and having fun at this post divorce juncture. Part of learning is finding your own balance and that’s what occurred in this short fling. You balanced the good with the bad and then walked. Onwards and upwards with chin up and boobs out!
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't skip past this post without a reply.
> 
> This is basically the same thing men get called dogs for. First of all, she doesn't like the guy. She just wanted to "get hers" and **** his feelings right? Use him up like a toy and toss him out like last week's news paper. Its irrelevant weather or not he got his, because she got hers. Even though she doesn't like the guy. I'm going through my checklist and checking the **** box on item one. ✔
> 
> 2) she is playing a game with the guy. Using him for her own sexual gratification. Not once, not twice, not three times, but four times she got hers. With no intention of even caring about him at all. In fact, she even stated his ego needs to take a hit. So basically she figured she could get hers, use him as a toy, all so she could make that guy feel like crap about himself. Checking item two on the **** box again. ✔
> 
> Tres, the idea that a man would use up a woman he knows he doesn't like to "get his" and doesn't give a single **** about that girl would be highly frowned upon by virtually every woman alive. Now mix in the fact that not only did she use him, she played mind games to destroy his self confidence. Imagine a girl gets used by a guy, then further, the guy knew what he was doing and only did it to check a woman's ego. To purposefully hurt her. Use sex as a weapon against her, only to bring self doubt in her, knowing full well he doesn't like, respect, or care about her whatsoever. Would you tell that same guy "however she feels about it is irrelevant. You got yours dude. She can feel however she wants about it. There is no problem with what you did. Theres just some minor man ***** shaming going on here, that's all" ??? Highly ****ing doubt it.
> 
> Quatre, encouraging a woman who is looking for a serious relationship to walk forward from using up a man, chin up and boobs out after dismissing all of her behaviour is basically telling her to continue to be a ****. Get yours. To hell with these guys, and you will find the one. You don't think a middle aged guy isn't going to be on the lookout for this behaviour? With their experience? They will spot a **** a mile away. What will happen is they will return the favor she just did to this other guy. Then bounce because obviously she can't be genuine at this point. They will also say to themselves, "****, no wonder she is still single. That is damaged goods right there"
> 
> Sometimes people need tough love. I get it. She is a woman, you are a woman. You will give the benefit of the doubt, like men give DB men the benefit of the doubt more often then not. But that wont help them if they are truly looking for a good relationship with a good person and a good fit for them. I think your words stear her towards making some of the same decisions that she made with her first marriage, and this guy. Seeking out dirt bags and low lifes. Use them up and continue on to the next, wondering why all men are crap while simultaneously being the exact reason some men are crap.
> 
> Bad advice on your part imo. No guy wants to settle down with a girl still playing games to get hers. Just like no woman wants a guy playing games in the later rounds of the draft just to get his.
> 
> Here is the Truth Katie, you are drafting in the later rounds. All the first round draft picks are gone. You can run your organization like the Cleveland Browns and pick up bust after bust. Or you can do your due diligence and and find a Tom Brady in the 4th. Based on this thread alone, you are running your own franchise like Cleveland. Time to turn the franchise around figure out how to spot a sleeper. Instead of picking up bust after bust.
Click to expand...

Jeez dude, get a grip! Telling her to move on with chin up and boobs out doesn’t mean I’m saying “now go do the exact same thing to every guy you meet for the rest of your life”.

Also what does a middle aged guy have to do with this?


----------



## Faithful Wife

As for if a man came and described the same type of act, sure he might catch some crap for it.

However, please let’s remember that Kat is fresh out of a marriage (I don’t even know if it is completed yet) and she is allowed to do things that she wouldn’t do later when she is actually ready for a new relationship.

She should not be seeking a new long term relationship right now anyway. 

Can someone please explain to me what the harm done was? She feels no harm. Plenty of men have come and told her that he got a gift from her, not harm.


----------



## john117

Really? There is such a thing as a hall pass? I'll remember it in February...

Look, people's business is their own. But follow the close relative standard so popular in my birth country. Ask yourself as a father of young women if you'd like your offspring to act in such a manner, extenuating circumstances or not.

Now she's not 25, but even when my kids are in their 30s or more I'd have a hard time buying a non George R R Martin explanation of similar events.

Last I checked, the earth has a few million years to go, no nuclear war in sight, and there is time for introspection. The guy stroked his ego - and other things  - whether he got a Joule of sexual energy from her or not. 

Look for the meaning behind the actions, and make sure you are on board. Sex as a weapon is fairly difficult to use without inflicting collateral damage on oneself.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Just more and more **** shaming.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Faithful Wife said:


> Jeez dude, get a grip! Telling her to move on with chin up and boobs out doesn’t mean I’m saying “now go do the exact same thing to every guy you meet for the rest of your life”.
> 
> Also what does a middle aged guy have to do with this?


Katie is divorced already. Like a middle aged man is a 3rd to 6th round draft pick, so is Katie. The simple truth is all the first rounders are gone at this stage. You can find a sleeper in the later rounds. But they are few and far between. There comes a point where you actually have to do your due diligence when looking for someone. All the career first ladies who's biological clocks are running out at 35 trying to settle down late end up settling for a 5th round bust... All the "forever bachelors" with trust and commitment issues trying to turn it around and settle down at 35 becauase they feel the pressure almost always end up with some crazy ***** with issues. It almost always leads to a bad fit for both people.

You cant act like a 22 year old woman, playing head games, and doing your best to be a little ****ty for your own pleasure. When you are drafting in the later rounds. You have to grow the hell up at some point. Or face the music that its probably best to just date around and remain single and don't even bother looking for a serious relationship. 

The funny thing is even Katie said she recognizes she is in a pattern of going for guys who aren't any good. You encourage her behaviour by telling her she did nothing wrong. I wouldn't encourage her behavior at all. The entire thread is based on the premise of low self esteem. I dont think using men is doing to cure her of that, do you?


Now I say all this to suggest that Katie can absolutely turn herself into a sleeper Tom Brady 4th round pick. A GOAT type woman. Nobody becomes the GOAT from listening to everyone telling them how great they are and to "just keep doing what you are doing" they become the GOAT when they listen to themselves when they see a fault, and listen to others when they point out a fault. Then they work on it. They work tirelessly to become better. 

You blowing smoke up her ass may feel like the nice thing to do. But Katie is a strong enough girl to say herself "you know what, I need to fix this about myself" so hopefully she doesn't take the advice "**** guys and their feelings. Get yours, their feelings are irrelevant" because she will scare a lot of actual good guys away with that nonsense.


----------



## john117

Hardly. Xxxx shaming would be derigeur if she bought an SUV 

It's simply how some of us see it in our advanced age and decaying state of moral minds.

Most males would wish they were "punished" in this regard, and to be blunt, in dating everything goes. A notch is a notch. But a spade is a spade too.


Faithful Wife said:


> Just more and more **** shaming.


----------



## Faithful Wife

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeez dude, get a grip! Telling her to move on with chin up and boobs out doesn’t mean I’m saying “now go do the exact same thing to every guy you meet for the rest of your life”.
> 
> Also what does a middle aged guy have to do with this?
> 
> 
> 
> Katie is divorced already. Like a middle aged man is a 3rd to 6th round draft pick, so is Katie. The simple truth is all the first rounders are gone at this stage. You can find a sleeper in the later rounds. But they are few and far between. There comes a point where you actually have to do your due diligence when looking for someone. All the career first ladies who's biological clocks are running out at 35 trying to settle down late end up settling for a 5th round bust... All the "forever bachelors" with trust and commitment issues trying to turn it around and settle down at 35 becauase they feel the pressure almost always end up with some crazy ***** with issues. It almost always leads to a bad fit for both people.
> 
> You cant act like a 22 year old woman, playing head games, and doing your best to be a little ****ty for your own pleasure. When you are drafting in the later rounds. You have to grow the hell up at some point. Or face the music that its probably best to just date around and remain single and don't even bother looking for a serious relationship.
> 
> The funny thing is even Katie said she recognizes she is in a pattern of going for guys who aren't any good. You encourage her behaviour by telling her she did nothing wrong. I wouldn't encourage her behavior at all. The entire thread is based on the premise of low self esteem. I dont think using men is doing to cure her of that, do you?
> 
> 
> Now I say all this to suggest that Katie can absolutely turn herself into a sleeper Tom Brady 4th round pick. A GOAT type woman. Nobody becomes the GOAT from listening to everyone telling them how great they are and to "just keep doing what you are doing" they become the GOAT when they listen to themselves when they see a fault, and listen to others when they point out a fault. Then they work on it. They work tirelessly to become better.
> 
> You blowing smoke up her ass may feel like the nice thing to do. But Katie is a strong enough girl to say herself "you know what, I need to fix this about myself" so hopefully she doesn't take the advice "**** guys and their feelings. Get yours, their feelings are irrelevant" because she will scare a lot of actual good guys away with that nonsense.
Click to expand...

Omg, you are the last person I expected **** shaming from. Duly noted.


----------



## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Hardly. Xxxx shaming would be derigeur if she bought an SUV
> 
> It's simply how some of us see it in our advanced age and decaying state of moral minds.
> 
> Most males would wish they were "punished" in this regard, and to be blunt, in dating everything goes. A notch is a notch. But a spade is a spade too.
> 
> 
> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just more and more **** shaming.
Click to expand...

If only you guys knew some of the things I got up to when I was first divorced. I’d be even more **** shamed than I already am.

But since I knew I was doing things that were not harming anyone, there is/was no point in sharing it here just to get slammed by TAM shamers. Oh hell no!

Granted, I do not want to get married or have babies for the first time with a healthy young man like Kat does. However, do you really think the men Kat’s age who are on the market have never gotten a one way bj and been happy about it? Like they are all some kind of preserved untouched goods sitting on a shelf? DOCTORS? 

Do you really think they would just consider her damaged goods because she had a guy go down on her and she O’d 4 times and he O’d zero times? Are you guys being for real here?

Happily for them, most guys Kat’s age have some miles on their tires, and they had fun with it. Just like she has the chance to have fun now and it will do neither herself nor her chosen lucky men any harm.

She is in a transitionary stage. She gets to explore and find herself. She gets to make mistakes along the way.

Just like men do.

And then she will find a man who is everything her husband wasn’t and they will be happy together.

But yeah, don’t let me stop you guys from the **** shaming and attempts to tell her that she should shut her legs until Mr. Worthy comes along and that anything she does will reduce her value to some old man she will meet someday.

Even though that man has done the same things and she likely doesn’t want a man who has no clue what the difference between good and bad sex due to inexperience.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Faithful Wife said:


> As for if a man came and described the same type of act, sure he might catch some crap for it.
> 
> However, please let’s remember that Kat is fresh out of a marriage (I don’t even know if it is completed yet) and she is allowed to do things that she wouldn’t do later when she is actually ready for a new relationship.
> 
> She should not be seeking a new long term relationship right now anyway.
> 
> Can someone please explain to me what the harm done was? She feels no harm. Plenty of men have come and told her that he got a gift from her, not harm.


Absolutely. The harm is that she runs the risk of attracting the same sort of men who she is trying to avoid. That is the harm. If she ever wants an actual "good man" at some point she needs to see herself as a woman worthy of a good man. Playing these "head games" (double entendre) isn't doing that. She needs to BLOCK these users, these low life men. Learn to say to herself, "I want a M4" then she goes out and buys one, **** what anyone has to say about it. She she doesn't need anyone's approval. Similar, she needs to be able to not only spot a POS when she sees one. She needs to be able to say "he's not worthy of me in ANY way, shape, or fashion. He gets NONE! The issue is not **** shaming, it's shaming herself! Subjecting herself to more of the same! As others have pointed out, this unworthy guy still got to pretty much have his way with her. He isn't the victim of this, SHE IS! She is the victim of her same failed mindset. That She didn't consider his feelings? ****ing please! She considered them enough to basically degrade herself in order to hurt him. Oh there was definitely some feelings there. The feelings that run along the lines of "how to I do maximum damage to this guy while doing minimal to myself?" In the end, she still took a shot to herself, by her own doing, in order to have a laugh while walking away. 

What is the old saying, dont cut off your nose to spite your face? Katie is missing a nose after this, oh but she sure showed her face! You think she is going to find an actual good man with this bull ****? She will get nothing but more of Dr *********. With his loathing of women. On top of it all, she basically just validated Dr scrotum face and his feelings about nurses, and women in general. That whole "nurses are always "blah"" is exactly how that idiot feels about ALL women. Katie just tossed on some fresh new fuel logs on to his fire.

I don't get how when one sex is a dog, the other is a saint, with equivalent actions. That must be the patriarchy and social constructs and all that bull****.


----------



## Faithful Wife

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for if a man came and described the same type of act, sure he might catch some crap for it.
> 
> However, please let’s remember that Kat is fresh out of a marriage (I don’t even know if it is completed yet) and she is allowed to do things that she wouldn’t do later when she is actually ready for a new relationship.
> 
> She should not be seeking a new long term relationship right now anyway.
> 
> Can someone please explain to me what the harm done was? She feels no harm. Plenty of men have come and told her that he got a gift from her, not harm.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. The harm is that she runs the risk of attracting the same sort of men who she is trying to avoid. That is the harm. If she ever wants an actual "good man" at some point she needs to see herself as a woman worthy of a good man. Playing these "head games" (double entendre) isn't doing that. She needs to BLOCK these users, these low life men. Learn to say to herself, "I want a M4" then she goes out and buys one, **** what anyone has to say about it. She she doesn't need anyone's approval. Similar, she needs to be able to not only spot a POS when she sees one. She needs to be able to say "he's not worthy of me in ANY way, shape, or fashion. He gets NONE! The issue is not **** shaming, it's shaming herself! Subjecting herself to more of the same! As others have pointed out, this unworthy guy still got to pretty much have his way with her. He isn't the victim of this, SHE IS! She is the victim of her same failed mindset. That She didn't consider his feelings? ****ing please! She considered them enough to basically degrade herself in order to hurt him. Oh there was definitely some feelings there. The feelings that run along the lines of "how to I do maximum damage to this guy while doing minimal to myself?" In the end, she still took a shot to herself, by her own doing, in order to have a laugh while walking away.
> 
> What is the old saying, dont cut off your nose to spite your face? Katie is missing a nose after this, oh but she sure showed her face! You think she is going to find an actual good man with this bull ****? She will get nothing but more of Dr *********. With his loathing of women. On top of it all, she basically just validated Dr scrotum face and his feelings about nurses, and women in general. That whole "nurses are always "blah"" is exactly how that idiot feels about ALL women. Katie just tossed on some fresh new fuel logs on to his fire.
> 
> I don't get how when one sex is a dog, the other is a saint, with equivalent actions. That must be the patriarchy and social constructs and all that bull****.
Click to expand...

Given the exact scenario that Kat described to us here, a man in that scenario is not a dog in my book. He is just a newly divorced man sewing some consensual wild oats.

If you want to **** shame that man, go for it. But I never have and I never will.


----------



## john117

You've put more words in my mouth than any three speechwriters...

I understand the "transition". But it's not like she just found out she's single. I've found single life exactly like I thought, no transition, and that was after 3 plus decades of marriage. 

People adapt.

I understand the need to pair up. We had kids late. Wasn't too bad but 35 vs 36 vs 37... No biggie. With the right person. With the right person she could have sextuplets and be good. With the wrong person she could have a cat and be in trouble.

My semiprofessional psychology assessment suggests she still needs to discover herself. Thru actions. Unfortunately she's in a position with a lot of cash, a lot of pressure, and a lot of time (relatively speaking). That's a devils playground, one that needs to be traversed with care. 

I agree with the pickings getting fewer as life goes on. That means even more selection criteria. And development of experience. 

It's a jungle out there.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Faithful Wife said:


> Omg, you are the last person I expected **** shaming from. Duly noted.


You with your labels. If she was saying she didn't want a relationship, just wanted to be single and have fun, guess what I would say? 

She is saying she wants to better herself, find a good guy, cant figure out why she attracts these same scumbags. I give advice differently to the situation as it calls for it. Not to just men and women in general because I'm a guy. Im also not quick to place trendy labels on someone or their actions. Which is honestly what you seem to be doing. If a man wanted to settle down and find a good girl, and he was the male equivalent of what Katie is doing at this point, I would not so kindly tell him to "cut the ****!" And "grow the **** up" and act like a man who is looking for a good girl to settle down with.

If Katie said, "I'm happy being single, what do you think about me getting a M4? Oh btw, I just had this encounter with this guy..." I would say, "**** yes get that M4 and rock that ****! Have fun girl, do you! Use protection though, you don't want to catch anything." 


Do you not see the difference here? Based on her own words?


----------



## Faithful Wife

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jeez dude, get a grip! Telling her to move on with chin up and boobs out doesn’t mean I’m saying “now go do the exact same thing to every guy you meet for the rest of your life”.
> 
> Also what does a middle aged guy have to do with this?
> 
> 
> 
> Katie is divorced already. Like a middle aged man is a 3rd to 6th round draft pick, so is Katie. The simple truth is all the first rounders are gone at this stage. You can find a sleeper in the later rounds. But they are few and far between. There comes a point where you actually have to do your due diligence when looking for someone. All the career first ladies who's biological clocks are running out at 35 trying to settle down late end up settling for a 5th round bust... All the "forever bachelors" with trust and commitment issues trying to turn it around and settle down at 35 becauase they feel the pressure almost always end up with some crazy ***** with issues. It almost always leads to a bad fit for both people.
> 
> You cant act like a 22 year old woman, playing head games, and doing your best to be a little ****ty for your own pleasure. When you are drafting in the later rounds. You have to grow the hell up at some point. Or face the music that its probably best to just date around and remain single and don't even bother looking for a serious relationship.
> 
> The funny thing is even Katie said she recognizes she is in a pattern of going for guys who aren't any good. You encourage her behaviour by telling her she did nothing wrong. I wouldn't encourage her behavior at all. The entire thread is based on the premise of low self esteem. I dont think using men is doing to cure her of that, do you?
> 
> 
> Now I say all this to suggest that Katie can absolutely turn herself into a sleeper Tom Brady 4th round pick. A GOAT type woman. Nobody becomes the GOAT from listening to everyone telling them how great they are and to "just keep doing what you are doing" they become the GOAT when they listen to themselves when they see a fault, and listen to others when they point out a fault. Then they work on it. They work tirelessly to become better.
> 
> You blowing smoke up her ass may feel like the nice thing to do. But Katie is a strong enough girl to say herself "you know what, I need to fix this about myself" so hopefully she doesn't take the advice "**** guys and their feelings. Get yours, their feelings are irrelevant" because she will scare a lot of actual good guys away with that nonsense.
Click to expand...




TheDudeLebowski said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Omg, you are the last person I expected **** shaming from. Duly noted.
> 
> 
> 
> You with your labels. If she was saying she didn't want a relationship, just wanted to be single and have fun, guess what I would say?
> 
> She is saying she wants to better herself, find a good guy, cant figure out why she attracts these same scumbags. I give advice differently to the situation as it calls for it. Not to just men and women in general because I'm a guy. Im also not quick to place trendy labels on someone or their actions. Which is honestly what you seem to be doing. If a man wanted to settle down and find a good girl, and he was the male equivalent of what Katie is doing at this point, I would not so kindly tell him to "cut the ****!" And "grow the **** up" and act like a man who is looking for a good girl to settle down with.
> 
> If Katie said, "I'm happy being single, what do you think about me getting a M4? Oh btw, I just had this encounter with this guy..." I would say, "**** yes get that M4 and rock that ****! Have fun girl, do you! Use protection though, you don't want to catch anything."
> 
> 
> Do you not see the difference here? Based on her own words?
Click to expand...

This guy isn’t a scum bag. And neither is her husband.

And although she does want another LTR, it isn’t the best thing for that to happen to her RIGHT NOW. She deserves and needs time to test the waters. When she meets her man, she will be happy that she chose him based on adult experiences and decisions.

Go on all you want about the dangers to her. You can call it your dude advice, and I’ll still call it **** shaming.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Faithful Wife said:


> This guy isn’t a scum bag. And neither is her husband.
> 
> And although she does want another LTR, it isn’t the best thing for that to happen to her RIGHT NOW. She deserves and needs time to test the waters. When she meets her man, she will be happy that she chose him based on adult experiences and decisions.
> 
> Go on all you want about the dangers to her. You can call it your dude advice, and I’ll still call it **** shaming.


If someone wants advice on playing the field, I'll give it. If someone wants advice on AVOIDING scumbags, I'll give that. The guy is a scumbag by Katie's own description of him. I go by what she says. I don't know the guy. She says he basically called her a gold digger, for practically no reason. Thinks ALL nurses are the same, because he probably had one or two bad experiences, and has an ego so big he uses others and treats them less than good. This is Katie's words. That reads, scumbags ego maniac, broad brush paints women with negative labels, and uses other people for his own personal gain. Which I believe she also said that last part. She also said her husband was cut from the same mold. That she can't figure out why she is attracted to these men. 

Your advise is to keep making those same mistakes. 

My advise is to stop making those same mistakes. That you further that mistake making by playing these games with these same types of men. To you that is **** shaming? Get real FW! I like you but seriously, wtf? Her actions and thought processes are indicative of the same pattern she herself recognizes she is stuck in. You are basically telling her to keep doing what she is doing, no harm no foul. That is poor advice in this situation, I'm sorry my dear. It just is.


----------



## Faithful Wife

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> This guy isn’t a scum bag. And neither is her husband.
> 
> And although she does want another LTR, it isn’t the best thing for that to happen to her RIGHT NOW. She deserves and needs time to test the waters. When she meets her man, she will be happy that she chose him based on adult experiences and decisions.
> 
> Go on all you want about the dangers to her. You can call it your dude advice, and I’ll still call it **** shaming.
> 
> 
> 
> If someone wants advice on playing the field, I'll give it. If someone wants advice on AVOIDING scumbags, I'll give that. The guy is a scumbag by Katie's own description of him. I go by what she says. I don't know the guy. She says he basically called her a gold digger, for practically no reason. Thinks ALL nurses are the same, because he probably had one or two bad experiences, and has an ego so big he uses others and treats them less than good. This is Katie's words. That reads, scumbags ego maniac, broad brush paints women with negative labels, and uses other people for his own personal gain. Which I believe she also said that last part. She also said her husband was cut from the same mold. That she can't figure out why she is attracted to these men.
> 
> Your advise is to keep making those same mistakes.
> 
> My advise is to stop making those same mistakes. That you further that mistake making by playing these games with these same types of men. To you that is **** shaming? Get real FW! I like you but seriously, wtf? Her actions and thought processes are indicative of the same pattern she herself recognizes she is stuck in. You are basically telling her to keep doing what she is doing, no harm no foul. That is poor advice in this situation, I'm sorry my dear. It just is.
Click to expand...

She can answer for herself.

Katie, is this guy a scum bag? Also, was your husband a scum bag? I never got the feeling that he was a scum bag, just that you and he were not a match. Similarly with this guy, not a match but not a scum bag.

Hey guess what? I had varying levels of sexual activity with guys who were not a match for me after my divorce too. And further, guess what? The end of the world did not ensue.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Faithful Wife said:


> She can answer for herself.
> 
> Katie, is this guy a scum bag? Also, was your husband a scum bag? I never got the feeling that he was a scum bag, just that you and he were not a match. Similarly with this guy, not a match but not a scum bag.
> 
> Hey guess what? I had varying levels of sexual activity with guys who were not a match for me after my divorce too. And further, guess what? The end of the world did not ensue.


Were you looking for a serious relationship at the time?


----------



## Faithful Wife

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> She can answer for herself.
> 
> Katie, is this guy a scum bag? Also, was your husband a scum bag? I never got the feeling that he was a scum bag, just that you and he were not a match. Similarly with this guy, not a match but not a scum bag.
> 
> Hey guess what? I had varying levels of sexual activity with guys who were not a match for me after my divorce too. And further, guess what? The end of the world did not ensue.
> 
> 
> 
> Were you looking for a serious relationship at the time?
Click to expand...

Me? Nope! I was fresh off a divorce and had to get over my ex and find a way to move on. Tho I knew I would eventually want a LTR again.

Just like where Katie is at right now.


----------



## katiecrna

Faithful Wife said:


> She can answer for herself.
> 
> Katie, is this guy a scum bag? Also, was your husband a scum bag? I never got the feeling that he was a scum bag, just that you and he were not a match. Similarly with this guy, not a match but not a scum bag.
> 
> Hey guess what? I had varying levels of sexual activity with guys who were not a match for me after my divorce too. And further, guess what? The end of the world did not ensue.




This guy is not a scumbag. But he does have issues like everyone else. 
My stbxh (no I am not divorced yet) is a narcissistic.... I don’t know what to say, he was a scum bag to me. But I’m sure he will be fine to someone else who doesn’t have my issues.


----------



## Betrayedone

katiecrna said:


> Ok men... what if you meet this nice girl and you see her car and it’s a really nice sports car? Does this change your opinion about her?
> 
> The reason I’m asking is because I seem to get labeled as a gold digger, or someone who looks like I COULD be one. And I’m super annoyed by this because I like a couple nice things like shoes for example and I can afford shoes. For the record I make my own money and I make good money.
> I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed. So right away his guard was up. For the record, I like the way I dress, and I like what I like. So I need a new car because mine is breaking down and I’m thinking of getting a M4 but don’t know if men will be intimidated by this.


........send me a pic....I'll give you my honest opinion.......


----------



## Haiku

If you were my friend or daughter I’d probably encourage you to just be yourself. If a guy judges you on something as shallow as a car then there probably wasn’t much of a starting point anyway. 

Appearance of living above ones means and an impression of having a significant focus on financial status are something a successful man or woman might see as concerning. The conversation topics might project the right or wrong impression too. Successful people carry baggage too and can jump to conclusions and make incorrect judgements.


----------



## Andy1001

katiecrna said:


> This guy is not a scumbag. But he does have issues like everyone else.
> My stbxh (no I am not divorced yet) is a narcissistic.... I don’t know what to say, he was a scum bag to me. But I’m sure he will be fine to someone else who doesn’t have my issues.


Katie.
Do what you want.
With whoever you want.
Whenever you want.
And as often as you want.
And to hell with the begrudgers!


----------



## EllisRedding

I will never understand this whole idea about there is no better time to go out and make some mistakes. I mean, I get that while not in a relationship (or if not seeking a LTR) you can do things you maybe wouldn't normally do, go outside your comfort zone. However, just because you are in a better situation to make mistakes doesn't mean you should make mistakes. Not all mistakes are created equal, and some "mistakes" carry greater risks than others.

If you look at this instance with downtown julio brown, she brought a guy she met on the internet and only met face to face once back to her apartment alone. As a female in particular, yes, that does bring some personal safety risk. There is a whole other thread going on here about consent, who is to say that once Julio willingly got into her pants that he felt he was granted consent for the entire package? Additionally, I would guess (I could be wrong) that no safety precautions were taken with the downtown session, so there is risk there for both parties.

Keep in mind, I am in no way shaming anyone. We are all adults and people can do as they please. We all decide what risks we are willing to take (or at minimum, hopefully understand the risks before acting). However, I am not going to pat someone on the back and encourage them over actions that could very well have some negative consequences, especially when those actions seem to be based on "I will teach him/her a lesson"

Plus, I much prefer Audi over BMW


----------



## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> Katie.
> 
> Do what you want.
> 
> With whoever you want.
> 
> Whenever you want.
> 
> And as often as you want.
> 
> And to hell with the begrudgers!




Is that the advice you’d give to your daughter, in similar circumstances? Just curious. Not meant to be a provocative question.

I don’t think anyone is begrudging that she should be dating whoever she wants. This particular situation (letting the guy give her oral 4 times as revenge for ignoring her previously), is a clear indication that something isn’t quite right. It’s difficult to classify this as ‘dating’......
Whenever your actions are likely to be dictated by retribution, I would really urge to stop and rethink.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Andy1001

inmyprime said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Katie.
> 
> Do what you want.
> 
> With whoever you want.
> 
> Whenever you want.
> 
> And as often as you want.
> 
> And to hell with the begrudgers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the advice you’d give to your daughter, in similar circumstances? Just curious. Not meant to be a provocative question.
> 
> I don’t think anyone is begrudging that she should be dating whoever she wants. This particular situation (letting the guy give her oral 4 times as revenge for ignoring her previously), is a clear indication that something isn’t quite right. It’s difficult to classify this as ‘dating’......
> Whenever your actions are likely to be dictated by retribution, I would really urge to stop and rethink.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

If there is one thing I honestly believe it is that people make too big a deal about sex. 
OK,Doctor ******* may have had his ego bruised but I’ve never met a doctor yet who doesn’t need to be brought back down to earth every so often. 
I would give this advice to anyone. Enjoy yourself while you can because you will be a long time dead. 
One of the biggest lies told on tam is that someone who sleeps around when they are single will never be able to be faithful to one partner.
This is bs in my opinion. 
I’m speaking for myself obviously but I was a serial dater as a young man. Once I met someone who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with I stayed faithful.


----------



## wilson

I think a lot of us would still be giving similar advice even if there was no sex involved. If she invited him over to play mind games as she cooked him dinner and then sent him home hungry, I think most of us would still be critical of that type of behavior. All the valuable advice is being lost because too much discussion is being wasted on the oral sex issue.


Point #1: Guys like him are not relationship material. They are toys and can be fun to have a fling with, but they are not going to last. We are trying to point these warning signs out. Go out with guys like this if you want, but realize it's just to have a bit of fun. Don't later complain that he didn't act like a guy who wanted a stable relationship.

Point #2: Playing head games doesn't lead to long-term relationships. It won't "teach him a lesson" nor "make him a better person". It won't help you in the long run. You are giving in to bad habits. Play head games if you want, but realize you are creating habits where you play head games. That is less likely to attract stable guys who want a long-term relationship.


----------



## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> I will never understand this whole idea about there is no better time to go out and make some mistakes. I mean, I get that while not in a relationship (or if not seeking a LTR) you can do things you maybe wouldn't normally do, go outside your comfort zone. However, just because you are in a better situation to make mistakes doesn't mean you should make mistakes. Not all mistakes are created equal, and some "mistakes" carry greater risks than others.
> 
> If you look at this instance with downtown julio brown, she brought a guy she met on the internet and only met face to face once back to her apartment alone. As a female in particular, yes, that does bring some personal safety risk. There is a whole other thread going on here about consent, who is to say that once Julio willingly got into her pants that he felt he was granted consent for the entire package? Additionally, I would guess (I could be wrong) that no safety precautions were taken with the downtown session, so there is risk there for both parties.
> 
> Keep in mind, I am in no way shaming anyone. We are all adults and people can do as they please. We all decide what risks we are willing to take (or at minimum, hopefully understand the risks before acting). However, I am not going to pat someone on the back and encourage them over actions that could very well have some negative consequences, especially when those actions seem to be based on "I will teach him/her a lesson"
> 
> Plus, I much prefer Audi over BMW <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>


The point is not that it is a good time to make mistakes. The point (by me anyway, on this thread) is that it is almost impossible not to make mistakes when first dating after a divorce.

I’m not necessarily calling this current scenario a mistake. Kat may later feel it was a mistake but she likely won’t. 

However like almost every newly divorced person, she will likely make a mistake or two before she finds her new long term man.

As for the dangers of going home with someone, meh. Regardless of my deep adherence to affirmative consent ideals, I do not fear a man I’m dating will try to rape me. We are two adults who may consent to sex when we get to one of our homes, or we may just have a drink and watch a movie and make out on the couch. Just because predators exist does not mean they are lurking around every corner.

I have gone to a mans house on a second date before. That was the earliest I’ve done so, never done that on a first date. Other dates sometimes it is the 4th date or so. If a man is a predator, it isn’t going to matter if it is the first date or the 20th. He’s going to reveal who he is and you won’t know it until it happens. 

We can’t date and live our lives in fear of a tiny percentage of men who are rapists.

Though apparently some men these days live their lives in fear of being falsely accused of rape.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Andy1001 said:


> If there is one thing I honestly believe it is that people make too big a deal about sex.
> OK,Doctor ******* may have had his ego bruised but I’ve never met a doctor yet who doesn’t need to be brought back down to earth every so often.
> I would give this advice to anyone. Enjoy yourself while you can because you will be a long time dead.
> One of the biggest lies told on tam is that someone who sleeps around when they are single will never be able to be faithful to one partner.
> This is bs in my opinion.
> I’m speaking for myself obviously but I was a serial dater as a young man. Once I met someone who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with I stayed faithful.


Amen.

Some of these TAM people who have so many questions about how to get more sex for themselves really can’t stand it when some of us who have always had great sex talk about it. All the shaming...good grief, it makes my head spin. It’s like they feel the need to **** block everyone else.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Andy1001 said:


> If there is one thing I honestly believe it is that people make too big a deal about sex.
> OK,Doctor ******* may have had his ego bruised but I’ve never met a doctor yet who doesn’t need to be brought back down to earth every so often.
> I would give this advice to anyone. Enjoy yourself while you can because you will be a long time dead.
> One of the biggest lies told on tam is that someone who sleeps around when they are single will never be able to be faithful to one partner.
> This is bs in my opinion.
> I’m speaking for myself obviously but I was a serial dater as a young man. Once I met someone who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with I stayed faithful.


Well, to some people sex is just another body function like urinating I guess. To some it has to mean something. To me its like urinating, especially when you have a really full bladder and you get that instant relief. But I'm sure, like myself, you weren't looking for the next girl that fell off the D carousal to spend the rest of your life with.


----------



## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> As for the dangers of going home with someone, meh. Regardless of my deep adherence to affirmative consent ideals, I do not fear a man I’m dating will try to rape me. We are two adults who may consent to sex when we get to one of our homes, or we may just have a drink and watch a movie and make out on the couch. Just because predators exist does not mean they are lurking around every corner.
> 
> I have gone to a mans house on a second date before. That was the earliest I’ve done so, never done that on a first date. Other dates sometimes it is the 4th date or so. If a man is a predator, it isn’t going to matter if it is the first date or the 20th. He’s going to reveal who he is and you won’t know it until it happens.
> 
> We can’t date and live our lives in fear of a tiny percentage of men who are rapists.
> .


Nowhere did I say people have to live in fear  The reality is, it is a risk, even if minuscule. Honestly, if my daughter has the attitude that she doesn't have to worry about putting herself in a situation where she could be assaulted, well then I have failed as a father.


----------



## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the dangers of going home with someone, meh. Regardless of my deep adherence to affirmative consent ideals, I do not fear a man I’m dating will try to rape me. We are two adults who may consent to sex when we get to one of our homes, or we may just have a drink and watch a movie and make out on the couch. Just because predators exist does not mean they are lurking around every corner.
> 
> I have gone to a mans house on a second date before. That was the earliest I’ve done so, never done that on a first date. Other dates sometimes it is the 4th date or so. If a man is a predator, it isn’t going to matter if it is the first date or the 20th. He’s going to reveal who he is and you won’t know it until it happens.
> 
> We can’t date and live our lives in fear of a tiny percentage of men who are rapists.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Nowhere did I say people have to live in fear <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" ></a> The reality is, it is a risk, even if minuscule. Honestly, if my daughter has the attitude that she doesn't have to worry about putting herself in a situation where she could be assaulted, well then I have failed as a father.
Click to expand...

A young girl finding her way and an adult divorced woman who is dating in her peer group do not need the same guidance. The adult has already learned the things the young girl needs to know.


----------



## azimuth

Katie herself isn't describing it as a fun, NSA sex. It's like she wanted have that, but she had to put restrictions on it first "He needed to be taught a lesson" in order to go through with it, and not show her date that she had any pleasure. She's the one with some hangups about NSA and ONS.


----------



## Andy1001

Faithful Wife said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is one thing I honestly believe it is that people make too big a deal about sex.
> OK,Doctor ******* may have had his ego bruised but I’ve never met a doctor yet who doesn’t need to be brought back down to earth every so often.
> I would give this advice to anyone. Enjoy yourself while you can because you will be a long time dead.
> One of the biggest lies told on tam is that someone who sleeps around when they are single will never be able to be faithful to one partner.
> This is bs in my opinion.
> I’m speaking for myself obviously but I was a serial dater as a young man. Once I met someone who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with I stayed faithful.
> 
> 
> 
> Amen.
> 
> Some of these TAM people who have so many questions about how to get more sex for themselves really can’t stand it when some of us who have always had great sex talk about it. All the shaming...good grief, it makes my head spin. It’s like they feel the need to **** block everyone else.
Click to expand...

Well they say misery loves company.


----------



## Haiku

Faithful Wife said:


> Some of these TAM people who have so many questions about how to get more sex for themselves...


I’m fine with just bbq’ing.


----------



## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> If there is one thing I honestly believe it is that people make too big a deal about sex.
> OK,Doctor ******* may have had his ego bruised but I’ve never met a doctor yet who doesn’t need to be brought back down to earth every so often.
> I would give this advice to anyone. Enjoy yourself while you can because you will be a long time dead.
> One of the biggest lies told on tam is that someone who sleeps around when they are single will never be able to be faithful to one partner.
> This is bs in my opinion.
> I’m speaking for myself obviously but I was a serial dater as a young man. Once I met someone who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with I stayed faithful.




Completely agree with you. In fact, most women I know who were not just dating around, but were also ‘easy targets’ for guys, not just become faithful later on but completely change their mindset and devote themselves to family. (Some become very religious and rediscover themselves that way). There is not much correlation there.

But it’s a totally different subject. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

wilson said:


> I think a lot of us would still be giving similar advice even if there was no sex involved. If she invited him over to play mind games as she cooked him dinner and then sent him home hungry,



But he did eat. Like, 4 times. 
He must be regretting it all the way to the bank.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Faithful Wife

Haiku said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of these TAM people who have so many questions about how to get more sex for themselves...
> 
> 
> 
> I’m fine with just bbq’ing.
Click to expand...

I f-ing love BBQ. Bring it on! People who make the best BBQ are my heroes.


----------



## 269370

Andy1001 said:


> Well they say misery loves company.



They do say this. I guess the higher the post count the higher must be the misery? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigDigg

CharlieParker said:


> M4 says “car chick” to me, and that’s a good thing.


I'm actually debating between getting an M4 or a gently used low mileage 911S right now for my "fun car". M4 is a considered chick car these days? My wife said the 911 would make it look like I was compensating for something and thinks i need to wait a decade and get some gray hair to go there...

So driving a chick car or something that makes me look like i'm having a (very) premature mid-life crisis...choices choices :|


----------



## katiecrna

There is so much judgement in this thread it’s crazy. I just don’t understand what the big deal is. This is the second person in my entire life that I have been with sexually. My first obviously being my husband. 
People have the impression that I’m going around screwing and playing head games with all these men. 
That guy... is a nice guy but not for me. We get alone we’ll. I am not withholding myself from seeing other people. He is not preventing or harming me in anyway.


----------



## CharlieParker

BigDigg said:


> I'm actually debating between getting an M4 or a gently used low mileage 911S right now for my "fun car". M4 is a considered chick car these days? My wife said the 911 would make it look like I was compensating for something and thinks i need to wait a decade and get some gray hair to go there...
> 
> So driving a chick car or something that makes me look like i'm having a (very) premature mid-life crisis...choices choices :|


I said "car chick", as in katie would be a "car chick". I didn't say the M4 is a "chick car".

I got an Audi S4 in 20's, was a blast without being too flashy, but we did say I got it out my system well before my 50's.


----------



## BigDigg

CharlieParker said:


> I said "car chick", as in katie would be a "car chick". I didn't say the M4 is a "chick car".
> 
> I got an Audi S4 in 20's, was a blast without being too flashy, but we did say I got it out my system well before my 50's.


LOL - funny how my brain reversed the words no matter how many times i read that. Maybe I *AM* compensating for something 

Agree - definitely a 'car chick' thing.


----------



## EllisRedding

Faithful Wife said:


> A young girl finding her way and an adult divorced woman who is dating in her peer group do not need the same guidance. The adult has already learned the things the young girl needs to know.


Not really sure how this relates to my posts TBH. It reads (and I don't think it is what you are saying) as if a woman can let her guard down about the risks of assault because she has learned things. Heck, you could argue that someone who has been in a LTR and fresh out of a divorce might need just as much guidance. Will vary from person to person naturally. Hiding your Os from someone as a form of punishment or to teach him a lesson, doesn't really sound like much has been learned lol.

Don't mean to threadjack here.


----------



## NobodySpecial

katiecrna said:


> Ok men... what if you meet this nice girl and you see her car and it’s a really nice sports car? Does this change your opinion about her?
> 
> The reason I’m asking is because I seem to get labeled as a gold digger, or someone who looks like I COULD be one. And I’m super annoyed by this because I like a couple nice things like shoes for example and I can afford shoes. For the record I make my own money and I make good money.
> I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed. So right away his guard was up. For the record, I like the way I dress, and I like what I like. So I need a new car because mine is breaking down and I’m thinking of getting a M4 but *don’t know if men will be intimidated by this*.


If they are, you know they are a WASTE OF TIME. Consider that the gold digger jerk made his opinion known. You can steer clear of his ilk in the future.


----------



## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> A young girl finding her way and an adult divorced woman who is dating in her peer group do not need the same guidance. The adult has already learned the things the young girl needs to know.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really sure how this relates to my posts TBH. It reads (and I don't think it is what you are saying) as if a woman can let her guard down about the risks of assault because she has learned things. Heck, you could argue that someone who has been in a LTR and fresh out of a divorce might need just as much guidance. Will vary from person to person naturally. Hiding your Os from someone as a form of punishment or to teach him a lesson, doesn't really sound like much has been learned lol.
> 
> Don't mean to threadjack here.
Click to expand...

My post related to your post because you mentioned your daughter so I extrapolated on the difference between a barely legal adult and a grown ass adult.

The risks you speak of are real. But the dating world is not full of predators. The cautions women take to protect themselves are many and if we even speak of them around here, we are labeled as crazy feminists who think all men are rapists. Yet if we have consensual sex with a man on the second date and you (men on TAM and even a woman) don’t like the way it unfolded, then the woman is shamed and told to protect herself.

As hard as it may be for some of you to understand, dating includes sex and also includes going to each other’s houses for sex. 

Of course all women lookout for red flags that indicate a man might rape you. The problem is that actual rapists are going to cover up any and all flags and not be truthful so that you will never see it coming. 

So you test people out in your own way with your best head on your shoulders. Once in awhile one of them is deemed a safe bet for an early sex date and you go for it.

All of the women I know who have been raped or assaulted were exercising good judgment yet could not have foreseen who the man really was because he gave literally no indication of being a rapist. Rapists don’t exactly leave the panties of their victims laying around or anything.

Yes I know they exist, yes I know I will never know who they are ahead of time and yet I take caution anyway. But no I do not fear that one of them will be my date.


----------



## 269370

katiecrna said:


> There is so much judgement in this thread it’s crazy. I just don’t understand what the big deal is. This is the second person in my entire life that I have been with sexually. My first obviously being my husband.
> People have the impression that I’m going around screwing and playing head games with all these men.
> That guy... is a nice guy but not for me. We get alone we’ll. I am not withholding myself from seeing other people. He is not preventing or harming me in anyway.




Sorry, it’s not judgement. But some of the advice here is just insane...
Like I said, take time, take it slowly and date guys that you like, first and foremost, with qualities that appeal to you. Don’t give a second thought what guys think of you or how to impress them.

You now have more experience: when you meet someone for the first time, try to project into the future to see what qualities may cause issues down the line and which qualities are the ones that you find endearing or attractive. Weigh those up against each other. And btw, the very first impression tends to be the right one (with rare exceptions). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

NobodySpecial said:


> If they are, you know they are a WASTE OF TIME. Consider that the gold digger jerk made his opinion known. You can steer clear of his ilk in the future.


Not before using him for sex first of course.


----------



## NobodySpecial

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Not before using him for sex first of course.


Huh?


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

NobodySpecial said:


> Huh?


This thread took a different turn. You probably haven't read it all, otherwise you would get the joke.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Summary of this thread: a guy made a critical comment about you possibly just being a gold digger looking for a free ride, and you made him pleasure you orally for your own "free ride".


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Let's talk about cars more.

If I only had my '67 Mustang still. 289cu, headers, chrome side pipes, refurb interior, custom paint job, 60s on back, 70s on front. 

Then got hit by a semi. Totaled.
But I bought a '66, had for a while. Even more improvements. 

But today I'm looking for similar muscle car for fun. Won't expect anyone to treat me different. 😎

Point is, just be your best self. Care about others. Nurture your chosen relationships. 

That's all anyone can do.


----------



## ReformedHubby

This thread is a perfect example as to why I think forums are best used as somewhat of a virtual diary as opposed to a place where you actually take the advice given. I don't think too many here can relate to being recently separated or divorced. Even if they can, I think the community on TAM is honestly very sexually naive. With that said....not everyone grieves the same. Some of us retreat and work on ourselves. Others...like myself, and apparently the OP, boink our brains out. Its honestly a phase that all of us handle differently, I'm sure the OP will find her guy....but....even if she doesn't sounds like she knows what she wants out of life and will be ok regardless. She is not some delicate flower any of the white knights posting in this thread need to save.


----------



## Bananapeel

How is this thread 20 pages long and there's not a single picture of Katie's car?


----------



## john117

Let me offer a token picture...

You only live once and all that. This would open lots more conversations than a garage full of m3's...


----------



## hope4family

NobodySpecial said:


> If they are, you know they are a WASTE OF TIME. Consider that the gold digger jerk made his opinion known. You can steer clear of his ilk in the future.


As a man who likes sexy / classy style dress for his women. I agree this is a horrible thing to say to someone you JUST MET and know nothing about. Especially on a date where you better put your best food forward.

As far as dating within your income range. There really isn't something wrong there as I want something like that to, but it's not a deal breaker. 

So a single lady in a nice car. Other then me winking or flirting with them if I see no ring. I can't see the problem. My current car is a more family friendly Wrangler. Before that it was the Camaro. When I am on my own I could have the top down and the doors off just cruising. It's my thing, it could be yours too. Whatever. 

Some people just need to chill and enjoy the views.


----------



## lovelygirl

As an educated girl, you are aware you need to be dating men who won't judge you by the type of of car you own, ESPECIALLY a car you bought it with your own money.

Buy the car you want and don't ask people what type of car you should buy so that you won't intimidate men. 
A well structured man, won't be intimidated by a woman's car, otherwise you need to re-evaluate who you're dating.


----------



## lovelygirl

katiecrna said:


> I went on a date with a guy the other day and he thought that I maybe was a good digger because of the way I dressed. So right away his guard was up. For the record, I like the way I dress, and I like what I like. So I need a new car because mine is breaking down and I’m thinking of getting a M4 but don’t know if men will be intimidated by this.


Not only did he sound arrogant, but also very biased, impulsive and judgemental.

Who cares if he's a doctor?


----------



## Bananapeel

This thread is 21 pages long and there still isn't a picture of Katie's new car! Some of us are car guys and are getting impatient!


----------



## lovelygirl

Bananapeel said:


> This thread is 21 pages long and there still isn't a picture of Katie's new car! Some of us are car guys and are getting impatient!


:lol:

Why you need a picture of her car? Google it. This thread is more important than the picture of her car


----------



## ReformedHubby

lovelygirl said:


> Not only did he sound arrogant, but also very biased, impulsive and judgemental.
> 
> *Who cares if he's a doctor?*


I know its 2018 and all....but honestly a Doctor is still considered a "catch" by many women. Especially if he is handsome too....I wouldn't doubt that he has been targeted....but....you don't lead with that...you just have to feel people out. Its actually even more insulting that he asked the OP that, because based on her chosen profession its very likely that she makes just as much or more than him even. She literally has no reason to care what has or doesn't have.


----------



## DustyDog

ReformedHubby said:


> I know its 2018 and all....but honestly a Doctor is still considered a "catch" by many women. Especially if he is handsome too....


Seriously? In the age of the internet, people are this ill-informed? General practitioners earn about the same as accountants, have high stress jobs, lower life expectancies, have a harder time keeping relationships together. And yes, do have the reputation of being arrogant. I like being around medical people because I've been in medical, but I can't actually think of a career class that breeds more know-it-alls. Because they went through med school, somehow they know expertly how to arrange furniture in a room and cast aspersions on the lack of energy flow in yours. And don't get into politics. "I'm in medicine, I know exactly how politicians are killing the country!"



ReformedHubby said:


> She literally has no reason to care what has or doesn't have.


When does anybody have a reason to care about what another person does or doesn't have?


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## Bananapeel

lovelygirl said:


> :lol:
> 
> Why you need a picture of her car? Google it. This thread is more important than the picture of her car


You're obviously not a car person! A googled car image just isn't the same.


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## lovelygirl

Bananapeel said:


> You're obviously not a car person! A googled car image just isn't the same.


You do realize that the picture of the car is the very last thing to discuss in this thread, don't you? :|
I'm not a car person but we have more important things to discuss here rather than insisting on that picture.
Take this picture thing into a PM conversation. lol.


@ReformedHubby 
The combination of the "doctor" and "handsome" don't get along very well, IF OP is looking for a stable, long-term relationship. 
If the doctor is a catch .... and even more ...handsome, he'd be an easy prey for other females --> which would lead to cheating on his part. 

Not wanting to be judgmental here, but I'd consider more _who he is _rather than what he does. Let's be a bit realistic and not dream too much. Who wouldn't want to bang a hot-looking doctor? But would you really endure the suffering this would cause to have him as your partner/husband??

Maybe I went too far with fantasies here, .... 

OP, I'd suggest you NEVER see that person again. Think about how he made you feel *on the first date.* He gave himself strong prerogatives on the very first encounter ...and he might have tendencies of humiliating you in the future again, if you give him other chances to do so.


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## hope4family

Bananapeel said:


> You're obviously not a car person! A googled car image just isn't the same.


While the conversation has taken some twists and turns. I too wouldn't be against such photo if it were to exist. 

Plus car girls in my humble opinion are rare. :crying:


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