# Patience during an EA



## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

My wife of 2 years has been having an emotional affair with a man she met while on a business trip just over a month ago. She claims that he is just a friend and someone she can talk to and escape from real life, something she can't do talking to me or anyone else she knows. She admitted to speaking to him almost immediately however not until I noticed that she became very secretive with her phone conversations. I asked her to stop however she claims she can't right now even though she knows it's wrong because she needs the escape to get through her depression. 

My initial reaction was anger and then depression however after doing some research and realizing that the more I or anyone else tells her to stop, the closer we push her towards him, I began taking a more productive approach to the problem. I have tried not to bring it up and am focusing on doing what I can to fix some of the issues in our marriage that may have led to this situation. The problem is she has now started to sleep in the spare bedroom and I know it is so she can talk to him at all hours of the night. The phone bill shows about 12 calls and texts per day including some as late as 4:00 am. 

I go back and forth between anger, depression and motivation to work on our marriage however without the affair stopping I don't know how long I can keep it up. We both see our own counselors and went to 1 session together however she did not like that she was told the affair had to end or she would not be able to continue to see us. My wife is very distant when it comes to affection and only seems to be doing enough to keep me content.

The question is, am I doing the right thing by allowing the affair to continue? While I know I trying to get her to stop only pushes her farther away, I am afraid that the longer it goes on the harder it will be for her to break it off. I am not a perfect husband however I don't feel that I deserve this kind of pain and I know if it were the other way around she would go absolutely crazy on me. I am very confused and lost right now as I don't want to give up on us but don't know how long I can continue like this not knowing if and when it will end


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I would say the first thing you need to do is build your communication with your wife so she understands that every once she pours into this emotional affair takes away from the marriage and not only keeps it from healing but puts more of a strain on you personally. You need to be able to talk to resolve issues instead of her growing apart from you. The councilor was right in the fact she needs to end this. How would she feel if you were the one doing this because she was distant?

draconis


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

I have asked her how she would feel if it was the other way around in the past but asked her again (very nicely) yesterday. She didn't like it very much and said that everyone asks her that same question. She admitted that she would act the same way I have but at the same time she says that no one understands her and that she talks to him because he doesn't judge her like everyone else. Very much the type of response you would expect from someone with an addiction that they don't want to give up. 

I think we are making progress but until she agrees to stop talking to him I don't feel we can move forward. In the meantime I am working on myself and trying make sure I do my part to meet all of her needs so that she won't have to go outside the marriage in the future :loser:


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

LostandAlone said:


> I think we are making progress but until she agrees to stop talking to him I don't feel we can move forward.


:iagree:
I don't want to give any advice that might worsen your situation, but I could not work on things missing in the marriage if she has not cut contact. In some way it seems you are condoning what she is doing & she's not forced to make any decisions because she has it both ways. If it were me and she flat out refused to end contact, I would work on 'me' but not 'us' and tell her if she decides to end contact and work on the marriage, she knows where to find you.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Lost and Alone

I walked your path a year ago so I know your feelings very well. In my case my wife thought of him as only a friend to gather advice from. She got from him what she wasn’t getting from me. While her contact with him was not as frequent as yours it further pulled her away from me. Since I had no reason to suspect otherwise I let the contact go on but with boundaries she agree to. Not until seven months later when he ended all contact with her did she realize her true feelings for him. She was hurt and frightened that it was over and she saw just how far from me she was. If I had demanded she end it when I found out I don’t know where we would be right now. Maybe better maybe worse, but I know until we faced her feelings for him and ended contact we were not working on the problem as a whole. Most will advise you to have her end it to concentrate on your marriage. You will need to make that decision as you know the situation best but in the end she will need to do it for the sake of the marriage. When is the right time to do that is up to you. In the mean time work on yourself to be better at whatever she is missing so she will begin to turn to you for emotional support. You need to work yourself back as her emotional center. Be prepared this will take time. It has been over a year for us but we continue to try. Good luck.


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

Thank you all for very much for your help.

I think she is starting to come around as far as admitting to herself that there is more than a friendship there and I told her yesterday that the longer it goes on the harder it will be for her to break it off. I already tried "demanding" that she stop talking to him however that had the opposite effect from what I wanted it to, she was pushed closer to him instead of away. From what I have read about emotional affairs there is a cycle that the offending spouse goes through before they finally realize that it has to end.

The entire situation is complicated by my wife's depression which she has battled for years. She fell further in to the depression as we continued to struggle with infertility and she continued not to get everything she needed from me. It all finally broke loose last month. Dealing with someone in a deep depression is difficult because they don't care about anything and just want to run away and not face reality. I try to be as patient as possible however the longer this goes on the further I am pushed in to my own depression. 

I always was told that marriage wasn't easy and was a lot of work but I never dreamed of it being this hard and always thought that my wife and I could get through anything together.


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> Lost and Alone
> 
> I walked your path a year ago so I know your feelings very well. In my case my wife thought of him as only a friend to gather advice from. She got from him what she wasn’t getting from me. While her contact with him was not as frequent as yours it further pulled her away from me. Since I had no reason to suspect otherwise I let the contact go on but with boundaries she agree to. Not until seven months later when he ended all contact with her did she realize her true feelings for him. She was hurt and frightened that it was over and she saw just how far from me she was. If I had demanded she end it when I found out I don’t know where we would be right now. Maybe better maybe worse, but I know until we faced her feelings for him and ended contact we were not working on the problem as a whole. Most will advise you to have her end it to concentrate on your marriage. You will need to make that decision as you know the situation best but in the end she will need to do it for the sake of the marriage. When is the right time to do that is up to you. In the mean time work on yourself to be better at whatever she is missing so she will begin to turn to you for emotional support. You need to work yourself back as her emotional center. Be prepared this will take time. It has been over a year for us but we continue to try. Good luck.


Amplexor,

You mention that she was getting from her affair partner what she wasn't getting from you. Had she talked to you along the way and told you that she wasn't getting everything she needed from you? My wife did tell me and I did try to change but I didn't do enough in her eyes which is part of what got us here. I can't help but beat myself up thinking I could have done more to avoid this problem although I know every marriage has things for both sides to work on. There are plenty of things that I could have asked my wife to change but didn't because I don't expect her to be perfect and love her just as she is. I wish to God that she had suggested counseling a year ago instead of trying to fix it herself. Now she is so "broken" and disappointed that it seems like she's given up on me. I try to tell her that sometimes people need a kick in the butt to get them to change and that this could be the best thing that could have happened, but the depression just has her too negative to think that way.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

I think that if you sat down with her and tried to communicate better with her and tell her you want to be the one she runs to instead of running away from than maybe she'd see you in a different light. Let her know she can have a husband and a friend to talk to but as long as she is having this EA you can be neither one for her and it is hurting you.

draconis


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

This is so hard....I am convinced that no matter how I put it or how much anyone tells her, my only choice is to let it go on and hope it ends. She is so defiant when it comes to this.

I wish I could just work on myself and give her space to work her own problems out.....but I can't keep it up because she is sleeping in the spare bedroom and continues to talk to him. The more I push the farther away she becomes.

Is it really possible to just wait and hope? Or by letting it go on do I give her the best of both worlds? I guess that being that they are so far away it will fade but the waiting is killing me....


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

LostandAlone said:


> Amplexor,
> 
> You mention that she was getting from her affair partner what she wasn't getting from you. Had she talked to you along the way and told you that she wasn't getting everything she needed from you? My wife did tell me and I did try to change but I didn't do enough in her eyes which is part of what got us here. I can't help but beat myself up thinking I could have done more to avoid this problem although I know every marriage has things for both sides to work on. There are plenty of things that I could have asked my wife to change but didn't because I don't expect her to be perfect and love her just as she is. I wish to God that she had suggested counseling a year ago instead of trying to fix it herself. Now she is so "broken" and disappointed that it seems like she's given up on me. I try to tell her that sometimes people need a kick in the butt to get them to change and that this could be the best thing that could have happened, but the depression just has her too negative to think that way.


Yes she did try and tell me things were just not right between us on several occasions. Mostly bad communication skills on my part. I was too quick to dismiss it as just the regular issues between married couples and that it would all work out in the end. I didn’t put the proper effort into fixing our relationship. We both gradually withdrew from each other. When she developed her “friendship” with TOM things deteriorated quickly to the point that I finally realized there was something seriously amiss with us. I then discovered the EA via our online phone billings. Yes I did carry terrible guilt about not heeding her calls and making her vulnerable to the AE. However, she too stopped communicating. While I still look at those days with regret I am much more at peace with myself these days. I made a mistake, I recognized it, I addressed it and I am a better man for it. While neither of us are in the happy marriage we both want yet, we are both happier in our relationship. A question for you, is she under proper medical care in dealing with her depression?


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> A question for you, is she under proper medical care in dealing with her depression?


I believe she is. She is seeing a counselor every week and will be going in to talk to the doctor next week to work on her meds. I am hopeful that this will help however I am trying not to expect a miracle. My counselor said that based on her "risk taking behavior", she thinks she could be bi-polar. If that is the case then her current mix of Wellbutrin and Xanax is exactly what she doesn't need. Maybe I'm stretching here but I really am hoping that there is some explanation for her not breaking off the EA. I really don't want to believe that the woman that I married and am in love with is capable of being that cold. It certainly doesn't seem like the same person


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

Just an update. I have started to back off of my demands that she stop talking to him and as a result we have been getting along better (go figure). She is more affectionate however it feels forced. I have been making it clear lately that I am on the verge of seeing a lawyer and she is deathly afraid that I will "screw her". Even though she calls my bluff (not really a bluff but I haven't followed through yet) by acting like it doesn't bother her, I'm sure she is trying to keep me content enough until she can figure out what she wants to do.

I am making a prediction right now. She has been making comments all week that her sister has been bugging her to visit. So far she tells me she has said no but I know my wife too well and can see I'm being set up. You see her sister lives in the same state as the OM and while he would still have to hop a quick flight to get there, it's a lot closer than the 2000 miles between them now. She knows I will not be happy so she is doing her best to make it look like she has no choice. The funny thing is I just may let her go without saying anything because I feel this may be the only chance we have. That she spends some time away from me which she never likes, and some real time with him so hopefully she can see he's not all she's built him up to be in her mind. The hardest part about it however is that I know that they would consummate the affair if they didn't already when they met, but I may not have a choice  Great options huh?


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## cao428 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hi LostandAlone,

I think you should put your foot down and tell her, like I told my husband about going to China that you don't trust her because of her behavior and you don't want her going that close to where he is. Tell her to have her sister come out to visit you. (If her sister doesn't have the money for the flight, maybe you could help out?) I think if you look at this as a "healthy boundary" with her you will feel better. I don't know how she will react, but worth considering..?

I threatened seeing a lawyer with my husband the day I asked him to burn the photo in front of me and I walked out the door. He called me on the phone in an emotional state and asked me to come home. He was on best behavior after that for a while. The fact is I went to pamper myself (get my nails done) which was much needed after the emotional upset I was going through, although I had already seen a lawyer so had one lined up. My problem is if I have to go for a divorce I don't have the cash...but will have to dip into my 401K. I want to avoid going that route, but will if I find out he is continuing to live a second life.

To answer your question about allowing this to continue, I say no, don't allow it. Let her know you expect her to listen to the counselor and end any communication with him or you are done and will be forced to "make other plans" (you don't have to say the "D" word) This is similar to what the counselor told me that unless I made sure he ended his EA by asking him to leave and therefore to be forced to face the music, that I wouldn't have a marriage because it would continue and I would lose him to her. So my advice is do not allow it, by whatever way you have to.
Take care


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

Thank you cao428. I will let you know if / when she brings up going to see her sister


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## cao428 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hi LostandAlone,

We will be here for you so do not feel alone.


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

Just thought I would give an update on my situation. Unfortunately I don't have any good news to speak of. Today I found that my wife got a 2nd cell phone that I didn't know about which is clearly an attempt to get around me seeing how often she talks to the OM on the bill. 

We started counseling this week and that was pretty much a disaster. It was basically 30 minutes of my wife listing everything I have done wrong since we met and everything I've done to get us here. Of course she only tells the parts of the stories that make her sound like a victim including when she talked about the OM. All she said was that she has a friend who happens to be a guy that she talks to and that I told her we couldn't work on the marriage as long as she talks to him. The therapist had to ask to find out that she just met him while away on a business trip. No mention of course about how many times they talk per day or that they talk for hours all through the night. She left out the part about her lying to me about who she was talking to. Not important details I guess  We ran out of time and she said there was still more she didn't get to! Now I don't get to respond until next week which made me angry and of course led to a fight. My fault as usual.

I found out that one of her friends is now not in her good graces any more because she told her to knock it off with the OM and to work on her marriage. As with anyone else that doesn't agree with her, she is now considered a bad friend that doesn't understand her.

I guess the summary is that I basically consider the marriage over. She still doesn't admit to anything and says she doesn't want to get divorced yet she not only keeps doing what she wants, she does more and more terrible things. I don't know who this woman is but it's not the woman I fell in love with. She met with the doctor that works with her therapist to adjust her meds and I was hopeful that there would be some major discovery to explain it all. He put her on some new meds but I'm not optimistic for any miracle cure. We have been fighting for almost 2 months since I found out about the OM and she says the fighting has now pushed her farther away from me. Basically I should have just let her have her affair and waited until it was over and she "healed". I guess I'm a horrible husband for being angry about my wife having an affair. Shame on me...


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Give the therapy time. If half an hour is not enough time ask for a double session. It all needs to be on the table for both sides before the counselor can help. Your wife’s infatuation with TOM has jaded her view of you. She has built a fantasy world around him that seems utopian in nature. Because she has lied to you and purchased a second phone indicates she know what she is doing is wrong. She has lost a friend because she doesn’t want to hear what she had to say. Continue with the counseling, it is your best path at this time.


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

I hope my wife is going to give therapy some time. I found out that she has applied for some jobs where the OM lives! Just fantasy? She said she would never move away from her mom but job applications? I can't believe this is happening so fast. My wife will tell you that she has been pretending to be happy all along but that she has told me what she needed since we got married. We had our first real discussion about it in March, then in May she says I haven't done enough and she starts seeing some guy she met in a bar? Someone tell me when I'm going to wake up from this nightmare....


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

Another and most likely last update from me.

I got access to my wife's email accounts and found an email where she asks him about his feelings and plans with her and if he was just looking for "another" hookup. So there's the answer to the question of whether or not she slept with him when they first met. Another email showed flight reservations for him to here on 7/18. Not sure what she planned on telling me she was going to be doing those days.

Already seeing a lawyer on monday and now I have some more ammo to fight with. I hope to take her to the cleaners....it's the least I can do.

Thank you everyone for your support and advice. I wish you all the best of luck in your relationships.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear that. I am glad you have some proof in writing so at least you aren't left wondering. Best of luck to you.


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## cao428 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hi LostandAlone,

I just got back from a trip and read this. 

Good you have evidence..I am still working on that. Sorry for all you are going through.

Wish you the best..keep us posted.


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

I came home last night to a 4 page note from my wife saying that she was going through with her weekend rendezvous with the OM and that she is sorry it is hurting me but that she needs to do this before she can give 100% to our marriage. She says she needs to know what there is with this man and if she is willing to give up everything for him or not.

She really is something else and as much as I want to wait and pray that she eventually chooses me and our marriage, I don't think that is how it will go. I also need to leave with some of my dignity and waiting for her to hurt me again would not help with that. 

I am 100% sure she will regret her actions in the not too distant future however I can't be around long enough to see it. She needs to hit rock bottom before she knows what she's done and will have to face that time by herself because she has not only pushed me away but her family and friends as well. Like Earl says, Karma is a ***** and I have no doubt that it will come around and bite her hard. At least there is some comfort in knowing that


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

LostandAlone said:


> she needs to do this before she can give 100% to our marriage. She says she needs to know what there is with this man and if she is willing to give up everything for him or not.


And if or when she decides to give 100% to your marriage, you will be expected to do so as well knowing she just had an affair? She can't simply un-ring this bell should she change her mind post hook-up.


LostandAlone said:


> I also need to leave with some of my dignity and waiting for her to hurt me again would not help with that.


I think this is the most difficult part of EA's and affairs for the betrayed party. I went through these same feelings with my husband's EA a year ago and thought although I still love him and want my marriage to work, if I stay he will think I'm a doormat and what's to stop him from doing it again if I put up with it this time? On the other hand, he ended it on his own before it got physical and has shown a lot of remorse and has worked hard to rebuild my trust. I actually liked what my counselor said to me...you are only a doormat if you brush it off. At this point you need to make it clear to him what happens if this should happen again. That's not a doormat, that's a strong person standing up for themself. If you have any thoughts at all about trying to work things out after she goes away, I would really think about what YOU need if reconciliation is ever possible so she doesn't think she can just test the waters and you will be waiting in the wings. Not that you have to say if you leave I'm gone but at least if you leave don't expect me to be waiting in the wings as your plan b. I intend to go on with my life and what ever happens after that remains to be seen.


LostandAlone said:


> I am 100% sure she will regret her actions in the not too distant future however I can't be around long enough to see it. She needs to hit rock bottom before she knows what she's done and will have to face that time by herself because she has not only pushed me away but her family and friends as well. Like Earl says, Karma is a ***** and I have no doubt that it will come around and bite her hard. At least there is some comfort in knowing that


:iagree:
Save the 4-page note!!!


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## itsnot2late (Jul 18, 2008)

So what do you do when your spouse don't want to end the EA and believe the marriage is over? The only thing that possibly hold her back is the children in the family? For my case, she has expressed that she does not have any feelings for me, and the EA is providing her comfort and support that she's been needing all these years.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

And if she's getting it from another man, she has no incentive to work on your marriage and get that back with you. Have you told her that you want to be the one to provide her comfort and support? That you are willing to do what it takes (read books/marriage counseling) to be a better husband and fulfill those needs? Do you feel you have neglected her emotionally over the years? If she sees you want to be there for her and is still unwilling to want to even try, there is not much you can do, but she may be staying in the EA because she doesn't see going back to the marriage the way it was as an option.


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

I have definately been there for her emotionally, probably more than most men would be however she feels that by not initiating sex I am not making her feel like a woman and that by not getting it fixed sooner I don't care about her. From the day this started I have been reading books and printing online references which she has seen however it has not helped. She knows that I am willing to do whatever it takes however she wants this fantasy she has instead. While she has said in the past that my lack of initating sex is a problem she never suggested we go to counseling, she just expected me to "fix it" on my own. Now that we are at the point of counseling she has already checked out and is ready to move on.

I may not have been the perfect husband although I don't know that there is such a thing since we aren't given an instruction manual at the beginning. I have however given her what most men don't as far as affection and emotional support which I thought were appreciated. The things that I need to work on are easier to correct and are usually things that women wish their husband's didn't have like a high sex drive.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Sorry Lostandalone, I intended that reply for itsnot2late..didn't mean to hijack your thread.

From everything you have stated thus far, you have been a good husband and very patient with your wife's EA. I hope you are able to remain strong however this turns out for you. I'm really sorry to hear you have to go through this at all. I don't think your wife can see clearly enough right now to realize that the path she is treading down is not the way to decide whether or not she should stay in the marriage.


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## LostandAlone (Jun 22, 2008)

Oh ok, sorry Swedish, I didn't realize it was intended for 2late. Go ahead and hijack away, I think my situation is past the point of help so may as well try to do what we can for someone that may still have a shot at saving their marriage.

I do appreciate everyone's help along the way but in the end, it's the WS that needs to be willing to do their part.


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