# Hi, why do these Top twenty traits matter to woman?



## JohnA

The Top 20 Traits Women Want in a Man
.................................................. ................................................
Results
We organized traits and characteristics according to the percentage of women who ranked them within the top 10 attributes. Women rated traits relating to character and personality much higher than they scored those reflecting physical attractiveness. For example, only 13 percent of women included muscular build as a requisite for hotness, while 66 percent placed moral integrity as a "make me quiver" characteristic. Check out the supporting data.

Top 5 Character Traits

84%p
1. Faithfulness
More than 8 out of 10 women rated "faithful to me" in the top 10 attributes they find sexy in a man. A woman's tendency toward attachment is a biological imperative, a matter of raising offspring right. Reassure her (often) that you're not going anywhere.

75%
2. Dependability
Three out of four women say they look for a man who makes commitments and follows through. Being responsible—even if it's just remembering to pick up salad dressing on your way over to her place—sends a positive signal that someday you might commit.

67%
3. Kindness
Young women may still fall for the bad-boy type, but more-mature women are turned on by kindness, because kindness inspires confidence. In other words, if you treat the waitress well, your date figures you'll treat her well, too.

66%
4. Moral Integrity
Having the guts to tell the truth means to a woman that you have the guts to be a good, caring, decent partner over the long haul. White lies are okay; just avoid any that are tinged with gray.

51%
5. Fatherliness
Being a good dad (or having the potential to become one) is about being a good role model—and about being patient and caring, qualities women like in a partner. If you're not a father, then tell her about your favorite niece or nephew, or the employee you're mentoring at work.

Top 5 Personality Traits

77%
1. Sense of Humor
Being able to laugh at the stresses of this world is a must, according to the women on our panel. You get bonus points if you can make them laugh. Humor tells a woman that you can laugh at—read, handle easily—the many difficulties that life throws at you.

55%
2. Intelligence
A worldy, interesting man is a man she likes to show off. Men who are take-charge problem solvers make women feel secure, and men who are always improving are never boring.

46%
3. Passion
Why have women always melted for musicians? Because rock stars are passionate in public. Women like displays of passion because they're not accustomed to seeing them from men. Get passionate about something: kayaking, impressionistic art, barbecuing, or Habitat for Humanity. It's proof that you care for and about something beyond yourself.

41%
4. Confidence
A man who feels secure in his own skin makes the woman he's with feel secure. By showing you can handle unfamiliar people or situations, you tell the woman in your life that she need not fear, either.

38%
5. Generosity
This is more important to women over 35 than it is to those under that age. Generosity, however, doesn't just mean springing for dinner at a four-star. Your willingness to give your time and lend your ear is what women crave.

Top 5 Practical Skills

53%
1. Listening
Pay attention. A woman feels safe and secure when she knows her man will put down his BlackBerry and listen to her. Magic words: "I'm here. Tell me everything."

48%
2. Romancing
Romance appeals to a woman's right-brained, less-logical side. Every woman fantasizes about being swept off her feet. Romance is bold because you're displaying your desire for a woman and revealing a softer, more vulnerable side that women find irresistible.


35%
3. Being Good in Bed
It's not just the orgasms. A woman knows that a man who takes care of her in bed will take care of her out of bed. (Of course, the orgasms don't hurt.) Your enthusiasm for her body is more important than your sexual prowess.

23%
4. Cooking, Cleaning, etc.
Self-sufficiency means you're not going to expect her to be like your mother. Learn how to make one or two killer breakfasts or dinners, and you'll win her heart.

21%
5. Earning Potential
One in five women surveyed said a man's successfulness in his career contributes to his sexiness. If you've demonstrated talent, goal achievement, and follow-through, you give women confidence that you will be a good provider.

Top 5 Physical Attributes

30%
1. Sense of Style
The way you dress reflects on the woman you're with, and she knows it. The man who knows how to match a patterned shirt and tie will notice when she's dressed well, too. (And maybe he'll pay for the Blahniks.) Keep your tailor and your dry cleaner busy, and spring for posh, touchable fabrics like cashmere, suede, pima cotton, and brushed corduroy.

26%
2. Handsome Face
The science of attraction, which has been studied ad infinitum, says it's all about symmetry. Imagine you have a dotted red line (Nip/Tuck style) vertically through the center of your face, down your nose. Are your features similar in form and arrangement on both sides of the line? Do your eyes and ears match up? The closer one side mirrors the other, the more attractive you are. Women in cross-cultural studies have also ranked men with broad chins, high cheekbones, and large eyes as the most attractive. Best way to improve your looks: Smile more, and make certain your sideburns are even.

15%
3. Height
Tall, dark, and handsome isn't the be-all and end-all. Women say they like feeling smaller than their men, but height doesn't necessarily mean might. They will feel comfortable as long as they aren't towering over you.

13%
4. Muscular Build*
Spend more time with the bathroom mirror and less time with the gym mirror. Nearly three times as many women value a clean-shaven face over the clean and jerk. Muscles help ward off rivals and assure a woman that you won't drop her during a dip, but your overall appearance is more important than the size of your biceps.

12%
5. Fitness
Women recognize a good body as indicative of a man of discipline and self-control. It tells a woman you can keep up with her, in bed and out.


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## JohnA

How do I fix the misspelling of twenty in title?


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## Steve1000

From what I have experienced, I think that there is a big difference in which male traits that women say they want versus what they actually want.


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## rockon

JohnA said:


> 21% 5. Earning Potential
> One in five women surveyed said a man's successfulness in his career contributes to his sexiness. If you've demonstrated talent, goal achievement, and follow-through, you give women confidence that you will be a good provider.


Add 50% to this and I would believe it.


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## JohnA

My question is along the lines of features vs benefits and is addressed to a woman's perspective and only a woman's hence the thread in the ladies section and not the men's. In short what do these features mean to a woman. 

Rockon, for example a higher income may simply mean the ability to sustain a home to raise children in a safe secure environment. What is wrong with that?


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## WorkingOnMe

Steve1000 said:


> From what I have experienced, I think that there is a big difference in which male traits that women say they want versus what they actually want.


That's the problem with these kind of surveys. The people answering may even believe what they're saying. But the real truth can only be seen by measuring their actions.


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## Faithful Wife

@JohnA Clearly you need to ask MEN what women want. Go ahead TAM guys.....explain to this other man why these traits matter to us, or why the data is flawed, or why we don't know ourselves what we want, or offer anecdotal nonsense. You already have several answers from men. More will undoubtedly chime in. Which is good because obviously we women need men to tell us what we want.


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## JohnA

@Faithful Wife. Yes the blind leading the blind, care to lead? So, I buy a 600 house power car. But what does it get me? To the hospital with a hurt friend ?


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## Idyit

Nothing like taking a giant whiz on the third rail of TAM. :banghead: I'll read but think sitting this one out is in my future.

Other threads that addressed, meandered, fell into, jumped the tracks into..this very subject ended pretty poorly. A question I never got around to was, "are we talking about dating / having fun material or is it addressing what one would look for in a long term relationship?" "Do the answers change if never married vs married.?" Same as previous but throw in an age difference , say 25 vs 50. Does this make a persons answers different?

I have been separated for a while now and considering life after marriage. If someone asked me what I was looking for 20+ years ago when I met my wife the answer would be vastly different than today. And the answer might change again after some time. 

Is this relevant to the conversation? If time and circumstance can easily shift answers then we are probably wasting tons of time attacking or defending a non definitive poll.

Have fun.

~ Passio


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## Faithful Wife

JohnA said:


> @Faithful Wife. Yes the blind leading the blind, care to lead? So, I buy a 600 house power car. But what does it get me? To the hospital with a hurt friend ?


I don't understand the car reference, please explain.

As for leading the blind....

Are you asking us as individual women to comment on the 20 traits listed in your OP? Or are you asking us to speculate why women as a whole would have picked these traits? 

If it is the former, I'd be happy to answer and speak for myself. If I do so, I'd be even happier if no person here would then suggest that I don't know myself or my own answers, or that I am lying, delusional, or ignorant about what I actually do prefer.

If it is the latter, the author of the material you have quoted seems to have made their own conclusions about why women would pick these traits. Do you want us to expand further on what they said? Or provide our own hypothesis?


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## GuyInColorado

Common sense to me. Women want a tall, strong man that makes $$$ so they can feel secure. If I was a woman, I'd want the same thing.


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## Faithful Wife

JohnA said:


> My responses are in PURPLE ....
> Top 5 Character Traits
> 
> 84%p
> 1. Faithfulness Yes of course this is high on the list
> More than 8 out of 10 women rated "faithful to me" in the top 10 attributes they find sexy in a man. A woman's tendency toward attachment is a biological imperative, a matter of raising offspring right. Reassure her (often) that you're not going anywhere.
> 
> 75%
> 2. Dependability Yes of course also high on the list
> Three out of four women say they look for a man who makes commitments and follows through. Being responsible—even if it's just remembering to pick up salad dressing on your way over to her place—sends a positive signal that someday you might commit.
> 
> 67%
> 3. Kindness Yes still high on the list
> Young women may still fall for the bad-boy type, but more-mature women are turned on by kindness, because kindness inspires confidence. In other words, if you treat the waitress well, your date figures you'll treat her well, too.
> 
> 66%
> 4. Moral Integrity This one to me is too varied to comment...my morals are not the same as everyone's so what I would seek is compatible morals...too loose to be defined so I would not put this on my list
> Having the guts to tell the truth means to a woman that you have the guts to be a good, caring, decent partner over the long haul. White lies are okay; just avoid any that are tinged with gray.
> 
> 51%
> 5. Fatherliness Not really that high on my list though most every guy I've married or dated was a father
> Being a good dad (or having the potential to become one) is about being a good role model—and about being patient and caring, qualities women like in a partner. If you're not a father, then tell her about your favorite niece or nephew, or the employee you're mentoring at work.
> 
> Top 5 Personality Traits
> 
> 77%
> 1. Sense of Humor Yes very high on the list...I have a quirky sense of humor so not everyone who is funny can make me laugh, it is a very individual thing. I'm not sure this tells me it means a man can easily handle difficulties though. I think it just more shows compatibility because we get each other's humor.
> Being able to laugh at the stresses of this world is a must, according to the women on our panel. You get bonus points if you can make them laugh. Humor tells a woman that you can laugh at—read, handle easily—the many difficulties that life throws at you.
> 
> 55%
> 2. Intelligence Yes very high on the list, but I have no clue what the IQ is of any man I've ever been with, nor do I know my own. Just seems that people of roughly equal IQ get along better.
> A worldy, interesting man is a man she likes to show off. Men who are take-charge problem solvers make women feel secure, and men who are always improving are never boring.
> 
> 46%
> 3. Passion This would be higher for my list, though the passion doesn't have to be like a rock star...I don't care if they appear passionate to the rest of the world...I just want them passionate in the bedroom.
> Why have women always melted for musicians? Because rock stars are passionate in public. Women like displays of passion because they're not accustomed to seeing them from men. Get passionate about something: kayaking, impressionistic art, barbecuing, or Habitat for Humanity. It's proof that you care for and about something beyond yourself.
> 
> 41%
> 4. Confidence Yes high on the list but lower than passion.
> A man who feels secure in his own skin makes the woman he's with feel secure. By showing you can handle unfamiliar people or situations, you tell the woman in your life that she need not fear, either.
> 
> 38%
> 5. Generosity Pretty low on my list, I don't have any expectations that a man give me anything in the monetary sense, so if that's what they mean by generosity, I don't really know. I definitely want the time and attention but don't care about the dollars.
> This is more important to women over 35 than it is to those under that age. Generosity, however, doesn't just mean springing for dinner at a four-star. Your willingness to give your time and lend your ear is what women crave.
> 
> Top 5 Practical Skills
> 
> 53%
> 1. Listening Yes very high on my list.
> Pay attention. A woman feels safe and secure when she knows her man will put down his BlackBerry and listen to her. Magic words: "I'm here. Tell me everything."
> 
> 48%
> 2. Romancing Also high on my list but very individual and specific. Some men may think XYZ is romantic but I only think ABC is romantic. Compatibility still more important on this one.
> Romance appeals to a woman's right-brained, less-logical side. Every woman fantasizes about being swept off her feet. Romance is bold because you're displaying your desire for a woman and revealing a softer, more vulnerable side that women find irresistible.
> 
> 
> 35%
> 3. Being Good in Bed Would be at the top of my list.
> It's not just the orgasms. A woman knows that a man who takes care of her in bed will take care of her out of bed. (Of course, the orgasms don't hurt.) Your enthusiasm for her body is more important than your sexual prowess.
> 
> 23%
> 4. Cooking, Cleaning, etc. Would be at the bottom of my list, but only if assuming some minimum threshold of hygiene and cleanliness was already met.
> Self-sufficiency means you're not going to expect her to be like your mother. Learn how to make one or two killer breakfasts or dinners, and you'll win her heart.
> 
> 21%
> 5. Earning Potential Important but not very high on the list. I just want someone who can afford to travel with me, basically.
> One in five women surveyed said a man's successfulness in his career contributes to his sexiness. If you've demonstrated talent, goal achievement, and follow-through, you give women confidence that you will be a good provider.
> 
> Top 5 Physical Attributes
> 
> 30%
> 1. Sense of Style Yes very high on my list.
> The way you dress reflects on the woman you're with, and she knows it. The man who knows how to match a patterned shirt and tie will notice when she's dressed well, too. (And maybe he'll pay for the Blahniks.) Keep your tailor and your dry cleaner busy, and spring for posh, touchable fabrics like cashmere, suede, pima cotton, and brushed corduroy.
> 
> 26%
> 2. Handsome Face Also very high on my list.
> The science of attraction, which has been studied ad infinitum, says it's all about symmetry. Imagine you have a dotted red line (Nip/Tuck style) vertically through the center of your face, down your nose. Are your features similar in form and arrangement on both sides of the line? Do your eyes and ears match up? The closer one side mirrors the other, the more attractive you are. Women in cross-cultural studies have also ranked men with broad chins, high cheekbones, and large eyes as the most attractive. Best way to improve your looks: Smile more, and make certain your sideburns are even.
> 
> 15%
> 3. Height Yes very high on my list. I don't know why the author tried to white wash this one and down play it. "Will feel comfortable as long as I am not towering over you?" Um no, I just like tall guys, ok? It isn't complicated.
> Tall, dark, and handsome isn't the be-all and end-all. Women say they like feeling smaller than their men, but height doesn't necessarily mean might. They will feel comfortable as long as they aren't towering over you.
> 
> 13%
> 4. Muscular Build* Very high on my list. Why did the author bring up the clean shaven face below? Weird.
> Spend more time with the bathroom mirror and less time with the gym mirror. Nearly three times as many women value a clean-shaven face over the clean and jerk. Muscles help ward off rivals and assure a woman that you won't drop her during a dip, but your overall appearance is more important than the size of your biceps.
> 
> 12%
> 5. Fitness Yes very high on my list as I am an athlete and very fit.
> Women recognize a good body as indicative of a man of discipline and self-control. It tells a woman you can keep up with her, in bed and out.


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## Faithful Wife

GuyInColorado said:


> Common sense to me. Women want a tall, strong man that makes $$$ *so they can feel secure*. If I was a woman, I'd want the same thing.


I agree with your post but disagree about "why". I want a tall, strong, good looking, fit man that makes (enough) $$ (to travel with me) so that I can feel ATTRACTION to him. The secure thing....that may or may not be there.


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## JohnA

@Faithful Wife,

Actually I hope for the personal and general viewpoint of woman of how each of these points add value to your life. Your response to my car question actually shows why I ask. To the guy it may represent something that causes woman to take a second look, to increase his dating value. Huh? How the hell does this help that ? Why would he think that??? Exactly !

As to the authors I don't know if they explained the why and don't care. I want to know what you and other woman think. And every individual answer and ranking will spark discussion - that is what I hope for. So, yea file it under clueless looking for a clue or just clueless looking for land mines. 

Be well, be whole.


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## Herschel

Faithful Wife wants a perfect guy. Go figure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117

I have most of those (ok, not the muscular look) and a lot of good that has done.


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## john117

JohnA said:


> @Faithful Wife. Yes the blind leading the blind, care to lead? So, I buy a 600 house power car. But what does it get me? To the hospital with a hurt friend ?


To a performance driving school


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## JohnA

@Herschel really ? Your slip is showing. (are you old enough to appreciate that?). You proved her opening point on what would happen.


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## Herschel

...


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## Faithful Wife

JohnA said:


> @Faithful Wife,
> 
> Actually I hope for the personal and general viewpoint of woman of how each of these points add value to your life. Your response to my car question actually shows why I ask. To the guy it may represent something that causes woman to take a second look, to increase his dating value. Huh? How the hell does this help that ? Why would he think that??? Exactly !
> 
> As to the authors I don't know if they explained the why and don't care. I want to know what you and other woman think. And every individual answer and ranking will spark discussion - that is what I hope for. So, yea file it under clueless looking for a clue or just clueless looking for land mines.
> 
> Be well, be whole.


I see, john. I get what you are hoping for now.

I am on my phone but so posting is not easy, but when I get back to my computer I will answer more and in the way I think you are asking.


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## uhtred

They have listed a bunch of positive traits. Since there are no associated negatives, I don't see why any woman wouldn't want these. 

I don't know how the question was asked, so its not clear what the percentages mean. 

The same applies to men: do I want a woman who is beautiful or ugly? Well beautiful of course, but that doesn't mean that beauty is more important to me than other things.


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## Faithful Wife

Herschel said:


> Faithful Wife wants a perfect guy. Go figure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't get it when you guys do this. 

Women having preferences in who they want to marry or date is somehow an insult to some of the men at TAM.

But men having a preference in who they date or marry is absolutely expected and at the top of their list is that she has to be hot and fit.

It is almost as if some men don't want women to have preferences at all. Because that way, what he looks like or acts like doesn't matter at all. He can be a horrible, mean or ugly person, inside and out, but he still should be able to pick a hot and fit woman and get to be with her. 

Seems if women have preferences, men cannot tell themselves all they need is money to bag a hot chick.


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## EleGirl

JohnA said:


> How do I fix the misspelling of twenty in title?


You ask a mod. I did it for you. :smile2:


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## EleGirl

JohnA said:


> *Top 5 Character Traits*
> 
> 84% 1. Faithfulness


Of course this is of major importance. Don’t think it needs an explanation.


JohnA said:


> 75% 2. Dependability


Of course this is of major importance. Don’t think it needs an explanation.


JohnA said:


> 67% 3. Kindness


Of course this is of major importance. Don’t think it needs an explanation.


JohnA said:


> 66% 4. Moral Integrity


This is would be that he has a moral code that I can live with. There might be differences in the way we look at thing morally, but his would have to be close enough to mine to not cause me great conflict.


JohnA said:


> 51% 5. Fatherliness


At this point in my life, I’m not going to have any more children. So I’m not looking for a guy to be a father. However how he interacts with his own children would be very important to me. 


JohnA said:


> *Top 5 Personality Traits*
> 
> 77% 1. Sense of Humor


Yep, this is one of the first things that I notice about a man. Life has too many trials to not see it through humor a good part of the time. Now bitter sarcasm is not humor to me. 


JohnA said:


> 55% 2. Intelligence


Intelligence is important. I need a man who is roughly my equal or above intelligence wise. I think that most people pair up with those who are roughly the same intellectually. 


JohnA said:


> 46% 3. Passion


Passion in love and in the bedroom are essential. But I also would want a man to have some level of passion for other things. This is often what keeps people from becoming couch potatoes. Their passion drives them to do things such as a hobby, sport, volunteer, etc.


JohnA said:


> 41% 4. Confidence


Oh yea. Being with a guy who lacks confidence is like being a mother with a dependent child. I have no interest in that kind of relationship. I’m not talking about “macho confidence” which in my book is a false confidence, a bravado meant to cover up a lack of confidence.


JohnA said:


> 38% 5. Generosity


Years ago I would have said that this was not important. But after years of living with a man who was not generous, I now realize who important it is. To me generous does not mean gifting me things or throwing money around. To me it’s a form of kindness.

I agree with the idea that generous is about a willingness to give your time and lend your ear is what most women crave.

I also think that it’s the idea of us/we vs I/me. I’m not going to go into a long explanation here. Btu in short my ex had no concept of us/we. Instead it as him/his and want was mine was his too.


JohnA said:


> *Top 5 Practical Skills*
> 
> 53% 1. Listening


Yes.


JohnA said:


> 48% 2. Romancing


Yep, this is high on my list. Each person has a different idea of what is romantic. IMHO, part of non-sexual intimacy in marriage is for each person to find out what the other thinks is romantic and what they want. 


JohnA said:


> 35% 3. Being Good in Bed


Absolutely! I’m HD. I want a guy who I can have a lot of fun with sexually. Yes!


JohnA said:


> 23% 4. Cooking, Cleaning, etc.


This is about a man taking responsibility for his fair share of the household and child care. It’s not a 50/50 split because that’s impossible. Instead it’s looking the hours each of you work outside the home and what needs to be done. A man who dumps all, or the major portion, of household and child care onto a woman who works outside the home as much as he does is a HUGE turn off. It creates a mother with spoiled teen ager dynamic. HUGE turn off. (Note: I experienced this in marriage and so know how much of a turn off it is.)


JohnA said:


> 21% 5. Earning Potential


A man who is successful in life is the issue to me. Generally, in our society each person has to earn a living of some kind. But some don’t. Success can be in a job, or in volunteering, or being a SAHD and going a knock-out job of it. The idea is that he is fulling engaged in life.

What is not acceptable to me in a mate or a guy to date is someone who instead of doing something productive spends all day on the couch watching TV, or playing computer games, etc. 


JohnA said:


> *Top 5 Physical Attributes*
> 
> 30% 1. Sense of Style


He does not need to be a GQ guy. But some basic idea of how to dress is important. My idea guy would be able to dress appropriately for any occasion and feel comfortable doing it. 


JohnA said:


> 26% 2. Handsome Face


This goes to attraction. What one woman finds handsome might not be what another woman does. So, yes he has to be handsome TO ME. 


JohnA said:


> 15% 3. Height [COLOR="indigo [/QUOTE]
> I like taller men. I’m 5’3”. I like men who are 6’ or taller. But I married men who are 6’2”, 5’6” and 5’9”. I don’t feel feminine when I’m with a shorter man. I have no idea why. I just don’t’.
> [QUOTE="JohnA, post: 0"]13% 4. Muscular Build*


I like a man who looks healthy. Good muscle tone is important because that means that they are healthy. But I don’t like super muscular, body building men.


JohnA said:


> 12% 5. Fitness


Yep.


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## EleGirl

Basically it's a good list. But each woman might interpret each item a bit differently based on her experience.

One thing that I think is not on it and should be is "Emotional Intelligence".


For example I have zero interest in a man who cannot discussion his own feelings, marital issues, etc. and then work together to make our relationship better.


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## *Deidre*

Faithful Wife said:


> I agree with your post but disagree about "why". I want a tall, strong, good looking, fit man that makes (enough) $$ (to travel with me) so that I can feel ATTRACTION to him. The secure thing....that may or may not be there.


Don't you know by now that we shouldn't want to have a good looking fit guy, who makes ''enough'' money, but rather an unattractive guy who makes tons of money so we can fit into some random stereotype? 

I'm with you on your wants. My fiance is jacked (needs to be for his job) but makes a modest living, as a police officer. He's super humble, yet strong and confident. I don't know how stereotypes begin, but I've never been one.

There also seems to be this idea that men who are hot ...have to be mean spirited, or ''bad'' guys. Not true. I've dated a few good looking bad guys, but my fiance is a good person, and hot. I think that many people think they have to sacrifice chemistry for comfort or security. No one has to settle.


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## JohnA

Hi @EleGirl, 

Thank you for responding. Many of the same quality listed as a guy I would list for woman I find attractive. But in each case I wonder why. For many of them would be "white" flags as opposed to red flags. Others are eye candy, not really important at all. On a person front all my serious relationships have been against my "type": eyes of blue, 5 foot blue, hair of gold. None of these elements ever heid my attention. 

Not listed was a person of strong faith. What are the particulars? Stance on adultery? As a BS the question of adultery tends to be very real. YES, it does not mean it will never happen, but a red flags does not mean it happened either. 

Others such as sense of humor are like comfort food. Life is often a grind, a friend or a spouse with a sense of humor is a blessing. So for I guess I read the list and created the post was from the point of view of what would be the characteristics of a woman I do not nessary want to be intimate before sleeping but who I want to wake up with and share the day with. Jez at 61 what has happened to me?


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## arbitrator

GuyInColorado said:


> Common sense to me. Women want a tall, strong man that makes $$$ so they can feel secure. If I was a woman, I'd want the same thing.


*Quite often, those very same women later become rather desirous of some other dude with better looks or more money; so they can try to abscond with at least 50% of their husbands wealth during the marital relationship; and then go and covertly cheat on them with some other lout, usually irrespective of what he actually earns, all because either the grass is preeminently greener or the appendage is somewhat longer over there on the other side of the fence!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks

All of these traits except for height and muscular build appear to be gender neutral. Even then, some men might want a tall woman or a woman who is into body building.


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## Lila

I think surveys like this interesting but they should not be used as a basis to establish theories for attraction. For me, I found the responses for physical attraction, practical skills, and to some extent personality traits most interesting. With the exception of sense of humor, there was no generally unanimous agreement on any one trait. Female attraction is very complicated.

With regards to the actual survey, I found there was some overlap on some of the questions. For example, Passion and Earning Potential. A man has to live a purpose driven life (passion) in order for me to even consider him. His life goals (wealth, philanthropic, arts, etc...) will determine whether or not I find him attractive. 

I also noticed that the further down the list of categories, the more I differed in the order of importance from the reported highest scored traits. I completely re-ordered everything in the physical traits category. #5 was my #1 and their #1 was my #5. Just goes to show that not all women are alike.


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## Faithful Wife

*Deidre* said:


> Don't you know by now that we shouldn't want to have a good looking fit guy, who makes ''enough'' money, but rather an unattractive guy who makes tons of money so we can fit into some random stereotype?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with you on your wants. My fiance is jacked (needs to be for his job) but makes a modest living, as a police officer. He's super humble, yet strong and confident. I ain't no stereotype.


I think that for centuries, men didn't give a moments thought to what they looked like. Even though at the same time, they only picked a woman based on what she looked like.

We love in a different age now. It matters what a man looks like.

Women have always understood that it matters what we look like. Some women take offense to the idea. 

I only take offense to it if it is expected of women but not men.

I take a lot of time to maintain my appearance. Not crazy amounts of time, but a lot: I stay fit, I have a nice, current wardrobe, I am groomed and shaved. This all takes time and money. My hours at work spent earning the money to look this good are part of it too.

I want a man who cares about his appearance and is fit enough to keep up with me. The fact that I want this seems to piss some at TAM off. Why?


----------



## EllisRedding

EleGirl said:


> I like taller men. I’m 5’3”. I like men who are 6’ or taller. But I married men who are 6’2”, 5’6” and 5’9”. I don’t feel feminine when *I’m with a shorter man*. I have no idea why. I just don’t’.


Whoa, hold the phone for a second, there are men under 5'3" :surprise:


----------



## Faithful Wife

EllisRedding said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like taller men. I?m 5?3?. I like men who are 6? or taller. But I married men who are 6?2?, 5?6? and 5?9?. I don?t feel feminine when *I?m with a shorter man*. I have no idea why. I just don?t?.
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa, hold the phone for a second, there are men under 5'3"
Click to expand...

Yes of course there are. And there are women who love them.

But not all women.

Just as there are men who would feel 5'3" is too short, there are plenty of men who dig 5'3" chicks.


----------



## *Deidre*

Faithful Wife said:


> I think that for centuries, men didn't give a moments thought to what they looked like. Even though at the same time, they only picked a woman based on what she looked like.
> 
> We love in a different age now. It matters what a man looks like.
> 
> Women have always understood that it matters what we look like. Some women take offense to the idea.
> 
> I only take offense to it if it is expected of women but not men.
> 
> I take a lot of time to maintain my appearance. Not crazy amounts of time, but a lot: I stay fit, I have a nice, current wardrobe, I am groomed and shaved. This all takes time and money. My hours at work spent earning the money to look this good are part of it too.
> 
> I want a man who cares about his appearance and is fit enough to keep up with me. The fact that I want this seems to piss some at TAM off. Why?


I've always been a runner, and have enjoyed working out. To me, it has always been ''natural'' to find a guy who is athletic, and desires to stay fit. For himself, not to attract women. There are men who tend to revolve everything they do, around wanting to attract women. That is a turn off to me. But, if we're honest, of course we want to be appealing to the opposite sex. Men want to look good, and so do women, and yet there is still this stereotype that women aren't really all that into looks, but they're more into security, money and the 'dad bod.' lol 

For me, I've always had to have good chemistry with a guy, before officially moving into a relationship. Sometimes, that would be my downfall, as I didn't look past a guy's looks, and thought that was enough. But, after a few years of dating jerks, you learn. But my fiance and I started out as friends, yet I always thought he was a hot guy. He was always attracted to me, I came to learn. The beauty of the friendship is that we connected on a deeper level without sex for a few years, which of course ends up being what will keep a relationship together. I don't think that great sex and chemistry is enough, of course. But, some on TAM seem to think that women shouldn't want great chemistry, and to have looks as part of the ''checklist.''

I don't know why some men on TAM feel the need to tell women what they ''should'' be thinking, but what I've noticed in some of the comments is that some of these men will say how much they desire a woman because of her looks, but if a woman says it in terms of a guy, then she must not be the norm. lol 

My theory has always been that you should be able to offer, what it is you desire. In terms of appearance, personality, kindness, honesty, etc.


----------



## EleGirl

EllisRedding said:


> Whoa, hold the phone for a second, there are men under 5'3" :surprise:


Yep I dated a guy who was 5' tall.

He was a friend in high school. We met again at a high school reunion and we dated for a while. He had retired from the navy. Very good looking. Very built. 

He height bothered me a bit. But his attitude about life really bothered me. So I put an end to it.


----------



## southbound

*Deidre* said:


> I've always been a runner, and have enjoyed working out. To me, it has always been ''natural'' to find a guy who is athletic, and desires to stay fit. For himself, not to attract women. There are men who tend to revolve everything they do, around wanting to attract women. That is a turn off to me. But, if we're honest, of course we want to be appealing to the opposite sex. Men want to look good, and so do women, and yet there is still this stereotype that women aren't really all that into looks, but they're more into security, money and the 'dad bod.' lol
> 
> For me, I've always had to have good chemistry with a guy, before officially moving into a relationship. Sometimes, that would be my downfall, as I didn't look past a guy's looks, and thought that was enough. But, after a few years of dating jerks, you learn. But my fiance and I started out as friends, yet I always thought he was a hot guy. He was always attracted to me, I came to learn. The beauty of the friendship is that we connected on a deeper level without sex for a few years, which of course ends up being what will keep a relationship together. I don't think that great sex and chemistry is enough, of course. But, some on TAM seem to think that women shouldn't want great chemistry, and to have looks as part of the ''checklist.''
> 
> I don't know why some men on TAM feel the need to tell women what they ''should'' be thinking, but what I've noticed in some of the comments is that some of these men will say how much they desire a woman because of her looks, but if a woman says it in terms of a guy, then she must not be the norm. lol
> 
> My theory has always been that you should be able to offer, what it is you desire. In terms of appearance, personality, kindness, honesty, etc.


Good post. I'm a guy, and have to say that i agree with your comments. I don't think the list in the OP is bad at all; it seems like normal things to me. 

The only one new to me, as I mentioned in another thread, is the passion thing. I don't think a woman having a passion about something has ever made me more attracted to her, although that is mentioned here a lot on TAM. I suppose having a passion about life itself is good; I don't want a woman who frowns all the time, is super lazy, and has a chip on her shoulder. I much prefer the happy, bubbly type, but I never really thought of it in terms of having a passion for something like mountain climbing or quilting as an addition to the attraction.

In fact, I think it can sometimes be a negative. Sometimes what a person is passionate for bores the other silly, or they want to devote all their time to their passion instead of the relationship.


----------



## southbound

Lila said:


> With regards to the actual survey, I found there was some overlap on some of the questions. For example, Passion and Earning Potential. A man has to live a purpose driven life (passion) in order for me to even consider him. His life goals (wealth, philanthropic, arts, etc...) will determine whether or not I find him attractive.



This is certainly different to my x wife. If I had to use the word passion, I would say that she wanted to be my passion. In other words, she would rather me spend the day with her just hanging out at home as opposed to me vigorously pursuing a project. If I had ask her to discuss a purpose driven life with goals, she would probably thought I had cracked up, and I'm not putting that down, but just stating the reality. I live in a rural area, so maybe that has something to do with it. We tend to be a little more laid back and relaxed about things.


----------



## Blondilocks

"I want a man who cares about his appearance and is fit enough to keep up with me. The fact that I want this seems to piss some at TAM off. Why?"

Well, don'tcha know? Men are the visual creatures - not the wimenz. You're treading on their trademarked territory and you're upsetting their apple cart. All this time they thought all they had to do was earn some dough and they could get any girl they wanted. Now, you expect them to look half-way decent, too. You're changing the rulz and they're not taking it lying down.

BTW, your expectations don't piss me off in the least. They are common sense.


----------



## Marc878

The thing that is missing is chemistry. In the past this stands out very strong.

If you've ever locked eyes with some one you know what I'm speaking of.

It doesn't seem to happen often but when it does. BAM!!!


----------



## Red Sonja

Faithful Wife said:


> It is almost as if some men don't want women to have preferences at all. Because that way, what he looks like or acts like doesn't matter at all. He can be a horrible, mean or ugly person, inside and out, but he still should be able to pick a hot and fit woman and get to be with her.


Hey, whaddyaknow, you just summarized Red Pill. >


----------



## wild jade

I still don't really understand the question. :scratchhead: Why wouldn't a woman want those characteristics?

I could certainly see that different women might prioritize them differently, but what's not to like about good looks and a nice personality?


----------



## Married but Happy

wild jade said:


> I still don't really understand the question. :scratchhead: Why wouldn't a woman want those characteristics?
> 
> I could certainly see that different women might prioritize them differently, but what's not to like about good looks and a nice personality?


Exactly. These all seem like obviously good traits. In fact, I look for essentially the same things in any woman I date. Yes, there are some minor differences and some change in priority, but that's about it. These are characteristics of physically and emotionally healthy and competent human beings.


----------



## memyselfandi

GuyInColorado said:


> Common sense to me. Women want a tall, strong man that makes $$$ so they can feel secure. If I was a woman, I'd want the same thing.


I don't think I've ever wanted a tall strong man that makes $$$ to make me feel secure.

I'd rather have an honest, hardworking guy that comes home to me every night, is a good father to our children, and is my best friend.


----------



## rzmpf

It's a survey designed to make an article in a men's magazine. Basically pseudoscience. I doubt that there was randomization but even if there was, it's just a poll/questionaire. Open questions? Predetermined answers?

Who would believe a poll about penis size or about weight? No one. In polls there are just too many possibilities of errors. Social expectations, missing introspection, difference between concious and subconcious factors etc. How many people say that they want this or that trait but always end up with someone different?

To know what people really want and what priority they give these traits you have to look at what they do. Investigate the relationships they have and had, analyse the traits of their partners etc. For 1000 women you could spend years analyzing this stuff. Rather expensive and impractical and that's why it's not done this way.


----------



## uhtred

Are tall, strong and wealthy negatives, or just not as important as other things?



memyselfandi said:


> I don't think I've ever wanted a tall strong man that makes $$$ to make me feel secure.
> 
> I'd rather have an honest, hardworking guy that comes home to me every night, is a good father to our children, and is my best friend.


----------



## uhtred

I think that for a lot of history men did put effort into looking nice. Suits, top-hats, renaissance bright clothing, vikings with silver arm-rings. That was of course only the upper classes, but that probably was because they were the only ones who could afford nice clothing. 

If anything I'd say that men on average put less effort into looking nice today. Maybe its because its actually easier - most men can afford nice clothes, so wearing them is no longer a sign of wealth. 





Faithful Wife said:


> I think that for centuries, men didn't give a moments thought to what they looked like. Even though at the same time, they only picked a woman based on what she looked like.
> 
> We love in a different age now. It matters what a man looks like.
> 
> Women have always understood that it matters what we look like. Some women take offense to the idea.
> 
> I only take offense to it if it is expected of women but not men.
> 
> I take a lot of time to maintain my appearance. Not crazy amounts of time, but a lot: I stay fit, I have a nice, current wardrobe, I am groomed and shaved. This all takes time and money. My hours at work spent earning the money to look this good are part of it too.
> 
> I want a man who cares about his appearance and is fit enough to keep up with me. The fact that I want this seems to piss some at TAM off. Why?


----------



## Faithful Wife

uhtred said:


> I think that for a lot of history men did put effort into looking nice. Suits, top-hats, renaissance bright clothing, vikings with silver arm-rings. That was of course only the upper classes, but that probably was because they were the only ones who could afford nice clothing.
> 
> If anything I'd say that men on average put less effort into looking nice today. Maybe its because its actually easier - most men can afford nice clothes, so wearing them is no longer a sign of wealth.


Depending on the time in history and the culture, yes men do put effort into how they look....though I don't think they were necessarily trying to attract women. In previous generations, they more likely wanted to impress their peers by looking powerful or rich.

Skip forward to the current situation and generation, I see men putting more effort into actually attracting women....mostly younger guys who have been shaped by media closer to the way women have been. They have also been shaped by porn and other images that make them feel they should look "perfect"...which is not necessarily a healthy message for a young person to receive but at least it is equal and at least there is an effort being made to be attractive. It takes more than a fat wallet and confidence to bag a hot chick now...it takes an actual hot dude.

Now I know some will rush in and say "but what about all these hot chicks with ugly dudes?" And to that I just say that straight guys cannot evaluate what makes a guy hot in most cases. Guys see each other through a lens of competition, and all they see is competition. They do not see the merits or the attractiveness of another guy. So when a guy posts "what about these hot chicks with ugly dudes", my immediate thought is always "he is probably a hot dude but this guy can't get past seeing the hot girl and wishing she was with him".


----------



## Middle of Everything

Most all of those traits make sense. And as others have pointed out are fairly gender neutral. 

Only one that gets me is the height

Full disclosure. Im 5'10". But i grew late. At least 3 to 4 inches after high school. So I feel for the short guy. I understand why some can have short man syndrome. A lot of that is due to many assuming that taller is ALWAYS better. I believe there are even studies done about it. All things being equal people assume the taller guy to be smarter, more successful etc. Hell even in sports my beloved Huskers have passed on all-time players like Barry Sanders and Darren Sproles because they were "too short". 

I guess I dont get the desire for the magic 6ft number. My wife is maybe 5'6" at most. So 4 to 5 inches taller. So some women that want 9" to 10" taller? Dont get it as a 5'1" woman would seem tiny to me. Now I wouldnt exclude her based on height. Just doesnt cross my mind as much of a requisite I guess.

Weight seems similar for women. Thinner women are assumed prettier, smarter, more whatever.


----------



## red oak

Faithful Wife said:


> I think that for centuries, men didn't give a moments thought to what they looked like. Even though at the same time, they only picked a woman based on what she looked like.
> 
> We love in a different age now. It matters what a man looks like.
> 
> Women have always understood that it matters what we look like. Some women take offense to the idea.
> 
> I only take offense to it if it is expected of women but not men.
> 
> I take a lot of time to maintain my appearance. Not crazy amounts of time, but a lot: I stay fit, I have a nice, current wardrobe, I am groomed and shaved. This all takes time and money. My hours at work spent earning the money to look this good are part of it too.
> 
> I want a man who cares about his appearance and is fit enough to keep up with me. The fact that I want this seems to piss some at TAM off. Why?


Good points. 
Many men were more concerned with looks. Then some of them grow up!  
Personally I can't stand some of the things women think they must do to be attractive.
Nothing wrong with wanting spouse to be clean, and health conscious which should fit under trait 5 of physical attributes.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't get it when you guys do this.
> 
> Women having preferences in who they want to marry or date is somehow an insult to some of the men at TAM.


Because they fear it's not them. Or they KNOW it's not them. 



> But men having a preference in who they date or marry is absolutely expected and at the top of their list is that she has to be hot and fit.
> 
> It is almost as if some men don't want women to have preferences at all. Because that way, what he looks like or acts like doesn't matter at all. He can be a horrible, mean or ugly person, inside and out, but he still should be able to pick a hot and fit woman and get to be with her.
> 
> Seems if women have preferences, men cannot tell themselves all they need is money to bag a hot chick.


hmmmmmm


----------



## oldshirt

JohnA said:


> The Top 20 Traits Women Want in a Man
> .................................................. ................................................
> Results
> We organized traits and characteristics according to the percentage of women who ranked them within the top 10 attributes. Women rated traits relating to character and personality much higher than they scored those reflecting physical attractiveness. For example, only 13 percent of women included muscular build as a requisite for hotness, while 66 percent placed moral integrity as a "make me quiver" characteristic. Check out the supporting data.
> 
> Top 5 Character Traits
> 
> 84%p
> 1. Faithfulness
> More than 8 out of 10 women rated "faithful to me" in the top 10 attributes they find sexy in a man. A woman's tendency toward attachment is a biological imperative, a matter of raising offspring right. Reassure her (often) that you're not going anywhere.
> 
> 75%
> 2. Dependability
> Three out of four women say they look for a man who makes commitments and follows through. Being responsible—even if it's just remembering to pick up salad dressing on your way over to her place—sends a positive signal that someday you might commit.
> 
> 67%
> 3. Kindness
> Young women may still fall for the bad-boy type, but more-mature women are turned on by kindness, because kindness inspires confidence. In other words, if you treat the waitress well, your date figures you'll treat her well, too.
> 
> 66%
> 4. Moral Integrity
> Having the guts to tell the truth means to a woman that you have the guts to be a good, caring, decent partner over the long haul. White lies are okay; just avoid any that are tinged with gray.
> 
> 51%
> 5. Fatherliness
> Being a good dad (or having the potential to become one) is about being a good role model—and about being patient and caring, qualities women like in a partner. If you're not a father, then tell her about your favorite niece or nephew, or the employee you're mentoring at work.
> 
> Top 5 Personality Traits
> 
> 77%
> 1. Sense of Humor
> Being able to laugh at the stresses of this world is a must, according to the women on our panel. You get bonus points if you can make them laugh. Humor tells a woman that you can laugh at—read, handle easily—the many difficulties that life throws at you.
> 
> 55%
> 2. Intelligence
> A worldy, interesting man is a man she likes to show off. Men who are take-charge problem solvers make women feel secure, and men who are always improving are never boring.
> 
> 46%
> 3. Passion
> Why have women always melted for musicians? Because rock stars are passionate in public. Women like displays of passion because they're not accustomed to seeing them from men. Get passionate about something: kayaking, impressionistic art, barbecuing, or Habitat for Humanity. It's proof that you care for and about something beyond yourself.
> 
> 41%
> 4. Confidence
> A man who feels secure in his own skin makes the woman he's with feel secure. By showing you can handle unfamiliar people or situations, you tell the woman in your life that she need not fear, either.
> 
> 38%
> 5. Generosity
> This is more important to women over 35 than it is to those under that age. Generosity, however, doesn't just mean springing for dinner at a four-star. Your willingness to give your time and lend your ear is what women crave.
> 
> Top 5 Practical Skills
> 
> 53%
> 1. Listening
> Pay attention. A woman feels safe and secure when she knows her man will put down his BlackBerry and listen to her. Magic words: "I'm here. Tell me everything."
> 
> 48%
> 2. Romancing
> Romance appeals to a woman's right-brained, less-logical side. Every woman fantasizes about being swept off her feet. Romance is bold because you're displaying your desire for a woman and revealing a softer, more vulnerable side that women find irresistible.
> 
> 
> 35%
> 3. Being Good in Bed
> It's not just the orgasms. A woman knows that a man who takes care of her in bed will take care of her out of bed. (Of course, the orgasms don't hurt.) Your enthusiasm for her body is more important than your sexual prowess.
> 
> 23%
> 4. Cooking, Cleaning, etc.
> Self-sufficiency means you're not going to expect her to be like your mother. Learn how to make one or two killer breakfasts or dinners, and you'll win her heart.
> 
> 21%
> 5. Earning Potential
> One in five women surveyed said a man's successfulness in his career contributes to his sexiness. If you've demonstrated talent, goal achievement, and follow-through, you give women confidence that you will be a good provider.
> 
> Top 5 Physical Attributes
> 
> 30%
> 1. Sense of Style
> The way you dress reflects on the woman you're with, and she knows it. The man who knows how to match a patterned shirt and tie will notice when she's dressed well, too. (And maybe he'll pay for the Blahniks.) Keep your tailor and your dry cleaner busy, and spring for posh, touchable fabrics like cashmere, suede, pima cotton, and brushed corduroy.
> 
> 26%
> 2. Handsome Face
> The science of attraction, which has been studied ad infinitum, says it's all about symmetry. Imagine you have a dotted red line (Nip/Tuck style) vertically through the center of your face, down your nose. Are your features similar in form and arrangement on both sides of the line? Do your eyes and ears match up? The closer one side mirrors the other, the more attractive you are. Women in cross-cultural studies have also ranked men with broad chins, high cheekbones, and large eyes as the most attractive. Best way to improve your looks: Smile more, and make certain your sideburns are even.
> 
> 15%
> 3. Height
> Tall, dark, and handsome isn't the be-all and end-all. Women say they like feeling smaller than their men, but height doesn't necessarily mean might. They will feel comfortable as long as they aren't towering over you.
> 
> 13%
> 4. Muscular Build*
> Spend more time with the bathroom mirror and less time with the gym mirror. Nearly three times as many women value a clean-shaven face over the clean and jerk. Muscles help ward off rivals and assure a woman that you won't drop her during a dip, but your overall appearance is more important than the size of your biceps.
> 
> 12%
> 5. Fitness
> Women recognize a good body as indicative of a man of discipline and self-control. It tells a woman you can keep up with her, in bed and out.


I think I can condense these 20 traits into 2 points -

#1. don't be a sucky human being. 

#2. don't be a fat, slovenly, ugly slug.


----------



## bobsmith

I remain confident that what women will put on a survey, and what they really want are two different things. 

#1 Be good looking
#2 Make lots of money

The rest is "negotiable" 

My now cynical mentality sort of shoots through the BS of the ritual. 

What I have noticed on online dating profiles is the women certainly list out their wants very clearly, to a point I could write it for them. However, many of them have not seen running shoes in a decade, work at Starbucks, and just waiting for their 'knight'.... I realize some of this does not apply to professional women, but those types are even more scrutinizing. They want that 'model man' on their arm, and lots of cash. I know several women that their 'plan' in life is to find a man.....


----------



## personofinterest

bobsmith said:


> I remain confident that what women will put on a survey, and what they really want are two different things.
> 
> #1 Be good looking
> #2 Make lots of money
> 
> The rest is "negotiable"
> 
> My now cynical mentality sort of shoots through the BS of the ritual.
> 
> What I have noticed on online dating profiles is the women certainly list out their wants very clearly, to a point I could write it for them. However, many of them have not seen running shoes in a decade, work at Starbucks, and just waiting for their 'knight'.... I realize some of this does not apply to professional women, but those types are even more scrutinizing. They want that 'model man' on their arm, and lots of cash. I know several women that their 'plan' in life is to find a man.....


 Aww, you big strong man, thank you for telling little old me how my brain really works


----------



## NobodySpecial

bobsmith said:


> I remain confident that what women will put on a survey, and what they really want are two different things.
> 
> #1 Be good looking
> #2 Make lots of money
> 
> The rest is "negotiable"
> 
> My now cynical mentality sort of shoots through the BS of the ritual.
> 
> What I have noticed on online dating profiles is the women certainly list out their wants very clearly, to a point I could write it for them. However, many of them have not seen running shoes in a decade, work at Starbucks, and just waiting for their 'knight'.... I realize some of this does not apply to professional women, but those types are even more scrutinizing. They want that 'model man' on their arm, and lots of cash. I know several women that their 'plan' in life is to find a man.....


LOL!


----------



## bobsmith

personofinterest said:


> Aww, you big strong man, thank you for telling little old me how my brain really works




I am not a woman hater and this could only apply in my area. I just see a stark difference in what is proposed here, and what actually happens in my area. Hell, there was even a test a guy did on an online dating site where he used a hot guy photo but admitted to being an abuser and cheater of several types, and a line of women still wanting to get a date with him. 

I doubt there is a line for the average guy that has a decent job and would be the most faithful guy on the planet.


----------



## NobodySpecial

bobsmith said:


> I am not a woman hater and this could only apply in my area. I just see a stark difference in what is proposed here, and what actually happens in my area. Hell, there was even a test a guy did on an online dating site where he used a hot guy photo but admitted to being an abuser and cheater of several types, and a line of women still wanting to get a date with him.
> 
> I doubt there is a line for the average guy that has a decent job and would be the most faithful guy on the planet.


Thee comes an age when a lot of people are already partnered up. What you are likely seeing is people who aren't sometimes for very good reasons.


----------



## StillSearching

personofinterest said:


> Aww, you big strong man, thank you for telling little old me how my brain really works


I've been around neurosurgery for 21 years.
No one knows how the brain works. 
Just saying


----------



## bobsmith

NobodySpecial said:


> Thee comes an age when a lot of people are already partnered up. What you are likely seeing is people who aren't sometimes for very good reasons.


You speak truth there ma'am! I'm sure I fit on that list. I know a few other guys that fit. One has been a player his whole life and it will take a shallow woman to stick with him. Another that hooked up with a gold digger and we could all see it. That finally blew up a few months back when she cheater with I guess up to 5 guys. 

I also know women that are single AF. They can't be bothered to better themselves, but take every opportunity to 'go shopping', convinced they will find the one. 

I have noticed that a few women my age have taken to the "you will do" approach.


----------



## Mr. Nail

The question was "why do these Top Twenty Traits matter to women?
The answer is because they have been socially conditioned to give these answers. They are right out of the text book. They have very little relevance to what any particular woman will choose.
No, I'm not going to suggest what really matters to women, I'm not even going to suggest that it has more to do with a blend of intoxicants, hormones, and their girlfriends opinions. I've been kicked enough.


----------



## bobsmith

Mr Nail dun nailed it! I should have left it at that!


----------



## EleGirl

Faithful Wife said:


> @JohnA Clearly you need to ask MEN what women want. Go ahead TAM guys.....explain to this other man why these traits matter to us, or why the data is flawed, or why we don't know ourselves what we want, or offer anecdotal nonsense. You already have several answers from men. More will undoubtedly chime in. Which is good because obviously we women need men to tell us what we want.


:iagree: Just a reminder... after all it seems that more men reply to posts in the Ladies Lounge than women. :wink2:


----------



## john117

The moral integrity part is a bit difficult. Handsome face, well, . I'm near 60. If you expect Fabio, good luck with that. Fitness... Means "has a pulse" in my age.

Earning potential, kindness, and fatherness (?)... Good here.

Humor... I think not. The 55+ women I know aren't into funnymen. Marriage does that.

Single as of mid April. Let's see what 19 of 20 will buy in the open market.


----------



## john117

NobodySpecial said:


> Thee comes an age when a lot of people are already partnered up. What you are likely seeing is people who aren't sometimes for very good reasons.


That's been my experience as well.


----------



## Blondilocks

Mr. Nail said:


> The question was "why do these Top Twenty Traits matter to women?
> The answer is because they have been socially conditioned to give these answers. They are right out of the text book. They have very little relevance to what any particular woman will choose.
> No, I'm not going to suggest what really matters to women, *I'm not even going to suggest *that it has more to do with a blend of intoxicants, hormones, and their girlfriends opinions. I've been kicked enough.


And we thank you for that.:grin2:


----------



## Blondilocks

john117 said:


> The moral integrity part is a bit difficult. Handsome face, well, . I'm near 60. If you expect Fabio, good luck with that. Fitness... Means "has a pulse" in my age.
> 
> Earning potential, kindness, and fatherness (?)... Good here.
> 
> Humor... I think not. The 55+ women I know aren't into funnymen. Marriage does that.
> 
> Single as of mid April. Let's see what 19 of 20 will buy in the open market.


A man who can tickle a woman's funny bone will win out over a big bank account any day. Women love to laugh. Just be sure you discover what makes her laugh before launching into a comedy routine. If a woman doesn't have a sense of humor, next her. Life is too short for that nonsense.


----------



## personofinterest

I'll tell you what really gets me wet… a man who's not enough of a arrogant jackace to tell me that he knows my mind better than I do lol


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## Andy1001

personofinterest said:


> I'll tell you what really gets me wet… a man who's not enough of a arrogant jackace to tell me that he knows my mind better than I do lol


So it’s okay as long as he doesn’t tell you?>


----------



## john117

personofinterest said:


> I'll tell you what really gets me wet… a man who's not enough of a arrogant jackace to tell me that he knows my mind better than I do lol


You'd be surprised... It's doable after a while. Not after 3 dates tho.


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## NobodySpecial

Food for thought: I find it interesting that the gentlemen who are so certain that they know how women work, and it is not what they say, are the ones in sexless marriages or somewhere in the process of having their marriages terminated out from under them. While it might be unkind to note that in their threads in which they are struggling, it doesn't seem to be here. 

Struggling with your relationship? Cuz women are this and women are that. Maybe. Just MAYBE there is a mental block that prevents you from seeing what is being said to you. Nay is smacking you in the head.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

john117 said:


> The moral integrity part is a bit difficult. Handsome face, well, . I'm near 60. If you expect Fabio, good luck with that. Fitness... Means "has a pulse" in my age.
> 
> Earning potential, kindness, and fatherness (?)... Good here.
> 
> Humor... I think not. The 55+ women I know aren't into funnymen. Marriage does that.
> 
> Single as of mid April. Let's see what 19 of 20 will buy in the open market.


John,

I truly think you'll do great. 

RR


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## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> Food for thought: I find it interesting that the gentlemen who are so certain that they know how women work, and it is not what they say, are the ones in sexless marriages or somewhere in the process of having their marriages terminated out from under them. While it might be unkind to note that in their threads in which they are struggling, it doesn't seem to be here.
> 
> Struggling with your relationship? Cuz women are this and women are that. Maybe. Just MAYBE there is a mental block that prevents you from seeing what is being said to you. Nay is smacking you in the head.


You said what I was going to say. Guys who think they know what women think also happen to believe "what women" think is the opposite of what we say, which conveniently explains all those guys' trouble with women. 

It's the perfect way NOT to be responsible for their own problems.....


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

And the survey says;

And I can't say for sure, only the ladies know, but it seems the percentages and weights would vary according to the age and life experience of the woman answering.

And the same would vary if the same woman answered at different ages in her life.

Just a thought.


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## personofinterest

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> And the survey says;
> 
> And I can't say for sure, only the ladies know, but it seems the percentages and weights would vary according to the age and life experience of the woman answering.
> 
> And the same would vary if the same woman answered at different ages in her life.
> 
> Just a thought.


Now THIS is definitely true. The things your typical 22 year old woman finds important may be very different from what your typical 50 year old woman finds important.


----------



## Mr. Nail

NobodySpecial said:


> Food for thought: I find it interesting that the gentlemen who are so certain that they know how women work, and it is not what they say, are the ones in sexless marriages or somewhere in the process of having their marriages terminated out from under them. While it might be unkind to note that in their threads in which they are struggling, it doesn't seem to be here.
> 
> Struggling with your relationship? Cuz women are this and women are that. Maybe. Just MAYBE there is a mental block that prevents you from seeing what is being said to you. Nay is smacking you in the head.


But I did get picked. And I did get kept for decades. And it was not sexless for the vast majority of that time. I'm not interested in what the average woman picks. I'm only interested in turning on a peri-menopausal, 50ish woman with low acting thyroid. And since I started taking SSRI's I'm not even interested in that.

I also know what get's me wet. But I'm holding off until summer.


----------



## personofinterest

Mr. Nail said:


> But I did get picked. And I did get kept for decades. And it was not sexless for the vast majority of that time. I'm not interested in what the average woman picks. I'm only interested in turning on a peri-menopausal, 50ish woman with low acting thyroid. And since I started taking SSRI's I'm not even interested in that.
> 
> I also know what get's me wet. But I'm holding off until summer.


This is actually a good point. What really matters to people is what is important for the kind of woman/man* they *want.

For example, a large subset of the guys who are emphatic about what THEY are certain women want are....socially awkward men who WANT a hot young model type. And when they cannot get one, they parrot the MGTOW/Reddit/Corey Wayne mantra that all women want a tall good looking man with money. 

Well ,yeah, a vapid 22 year old size zero with a D cup may well want that.

That isn't all of us.


----------



## Ikaika

john117 said:


> I have most of those (ok, not the muscular look) and a lot of good that has done.




Handsome face - no for me
Intelligent - no, as well
Sense of humor - This could be subjective, Gillian’s Island (that is my reference for sense of humor). 

Ok, I’m a loser. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Ikaika

Two thing not on the list and wondered if it is important:

A man who can fix most large and small appliances.

A man who does not get flustered easily under stress.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Laurentium

personofinterest said:


> You said what I was going to say. Guys who think they know what women think also happen to believe "what women" think is the opposite of what we say, which conveniently explains all those guys' trouble with women.


I do actually think that there is sometimes (note not always) a disconnect between what women say they want, and what they do want. However, I believe the same is equally true of men, if not more so, and equally true of myself. A lot of what I know about the phenomenon comes from looking into myself. I believe people are complicated.


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## john117

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> John,
> 
> 
> 
> I truly think you'll do great.
> 
> 
> 
> RR


I'm not worried. I have kept the marital riff low key so I have not been flooded with casseroles and beer yet


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## Tasorundo

I think we can all agree that men who refuse to believe the list is true most likely feel they check off those boxes. It is pretty common for the average person to think they are well above average.

I am sure that women would scoff at a similar list of things men want, saying all they want is a freak with big tits.

The reality is that both sides set unrealistic goals, while also having a unrealistic vision of what they are bringing to the table.


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## NobodySpecial

Ikaika said:


> Two thing not on the list and wondered if it is important:
> 
> A man who can fix most large and small appliances.


What?? Are you trying to be funny?


----------



## Blondilocks

Ikaika said:


> Two thing not on the list and wondered if it is important:
> 
> A man who can fix most large and small appliances.
> 
> A man who does not get flustered easily under stress.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


The first wouldn't even make my top 100 list.

The second is very important and is probably a combination of personality traits such as intelligence and confidence.


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## personofinterest

Tasorundo said:


> I think we can all agree that men who refuse to believe the list is true most likely feel they check off those boxes. It is pretty common for the average person to think they are well above average.
> 
> I am sure that women would scoff at a similar list of things men want, saying all they want is a freak with big tits.
> 
> The reality is that both sides set unrealistic goals, *while also having a unrealistic vision of what they are bringing to the table*.


I think the bolded sums it up.


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## Ikaika

NobodySpecial said:


> What?? Are you trying to be funny?




Yes, I was being funny, and not meant to be taken seriously. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## NobodySpecial

Ikaika said:


> Yes, I was being funny, and not meant to be taken seriously.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Ikaika

NobodySpecial said:


>




I only made those comments, because my sons and wife are brokanics. I spend hours fixing this and fixing that... But in fairness my wife does show appreciation for it. So, no complaints just a weary fixer upper dad/husband. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Andy1001

Ikaika said:


> Two thing not on the list and wondered if it is important:
> 
> A man who can fix most large and small appliances.
> 
> A man who does not get flustered easily under stress.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


If this is your premise I should be ****ing magic!
I never get stressed out and when it comes to fixing appliances I’m your man. 
I have phone numbers for every type of repair guy you could mention. 
And I’m not afraid to use them!


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## Ikaika

Andy1001 said:


> If this is your premise I should be ****ing magic!
> 
> I never get stressed out and when it comes to fixing appliances I’m your man.
> 
> I have phone numbers for every type of repair guy you could mention.
> 
> And I’m not afraid to use them!




I don’t get stressed out about fixing this or that, just tired that is all. I prefer to do the work myself, I am a cheap bastard when it comes to things like that. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Ikaika said:


> Two thing not on the list and wondered if it is important:
> 
> A man who can fix most large and small appliances.
> 
> A man who does not get flustered easily under stress.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


How ironic!

A few months ago the clothes washer died one Sat morning, and I just asked my wife if she'd just go pick one she wanted just pls get it delivered installed turn key, and if this is what she wanted hey carry on. I'd go or not go, up to her.

She took right good care of it. 

PS I fixed our washer/dryers early in marriage when money was tight. 

But day before yesterday when I got home about 6, she met me at the door and said surprise, the electric stove won't come on.

A quick check, it wasn't an internal fuse but I found the problem, got out my old electrician tool belt, had it repaired in under an hour 15 mins, including hunting for a part in the garage.

Mostly nowadays it's a balance. I know my limitations, strengths, and amount of effort or personal time I truly want to spend.

Usually it's call a repairman from our list, built up after 20 yrs.


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## Ikaika

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> How ironic!
> 
> 
> 
> A few months ago the clothes washer died one Sat morning, and I just asked my wife if she'd just go pick one she wanted just pls get it delivered installed turn key, and if this is what she wanted hey carry on. I'd go or not go, up to her.
> 
> 
> 
> She took right good care of it.
> 
> 
> 
> PS I fixed our washer/dryers early in marriage when money was tight.
> 
> 
> 
> But day before yesterday when I got home about 6, she met me at the door and said surprise, the electric stove won't come on.
> 
> 
> 
> A quick check, it wasn't an internal fuse but I found the problem, got out my old electrician tool belt, had it repaired in under an hour 15 mins, including hunting for a part in the garage.
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly nowadays it's a balance. I know my limitations, strengths, and amount of effort or personal time I truly want to spend.
> 
> 
> 
> Usually it's call a repairman from our list, built up after 20 yrs.




I actually don’t mind fixing my own appliances. Plus, I am not interesting is filling up the local landfills with appliances that could be fixed at a relative cheap price. Cars, forget it, those get worked on by mechanics, they are computers on wheels. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## personofinterest

Ikaika said:


> I actually don’t mind fixing my own appliances. Plus, I am not interesting is filling up the local landfills with appliances that could be fixed at a relative cheap price. Cars, forget it, those get worked on by mechanics, they are computers on wheels.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


LOL we all have different strengths. My hubby can do wonders with a car, but if an appliance or something electrical is awry, he gets help or calls a repair man. Although he can do just about any non-electrical fix needed. I admit I find it "manly."


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Does it count that I fixed the stove in a pair of cut-offs and no shirt, putting on the old tool belt and having at it?

It did with my dear W.

After supper I was propositioned and had to play my part.

Quite happily 😍😍😍


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## NobodySpecial

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Does it count that I fixed the stove in a pair of cut-offs and no shirt, putting on the old tool belt and having at it?
> 
> It did with my dear W.
> 
> After supper I was propositioned and had to play my part.
> 
> Quite happily 😍😍😍


OMG. Toolbelt.


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## bobsmith

^^ Not even sure what happened to the original topic. I will watch my step so as not to offend. Ikaika mentions no fixing cars because they are "computers on wheels", and POI says her man "can do wonders with a car" but "something electrical is awry, he gets help". 

This is a part of my brain I cannot stand, cannot ignore it... I have never called ANYONE to fix anything in my life and I live a VERY diverse electrical and mechanical life. 

Ikaika is correct, nearly every system in a car today is either electric or monitored by electrics. Absolutely zero way for someone to be good with cars but suck at electronics. That limits you to about changing the oil and fixing a flat. car OEMs for years have been moving things in a direction where NO ONE can repair them without a dealer. The only reason is dealers are given the "keys" to fixing them, not because they are better. 

The newest vehicles now have encrypted ECMs (engine control module) so all but the very best hackers in the world cannot make computer adjustments. That is not life shattering because there are very few times you really need to reflash an ECM or change the parameters, but OEMs want to limit the "oreilly bandits".....

Not trying to generate an argument but nearly all complex systems are overlaid with complex electronics. Even HVAC in a home is going to at least have a PCB with solid states onboard for general switching, flame sensors, etc. Most are relatively easy to repair though on that front.


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## Andy1001

bobsmith said:


> ^^ Not even sure what happened to the original topic. I will watch my step so as not to offend. Ikaika mentions no fixing cars because they are "computers on wheels", and POI says her man "can do wonders with a car" but "something electrical is awry, he gets help".
> 
> This is a part of my brain I cannot stand, cannot ignore it... I have never called ANYONE to fix anything in my life and I live a VERY diverse electrical and mechanical life.
> 
> Ikaika is correct, nearly every system in a car today is either electric or monitored by electrics. Absolutely zero way for someone to be good with cars but suck at electronics. That limits you to about changing the oil and fixing a flat. car OEMs for years have been moving things in a direction where NO ONE can repair them without a dealer. The only reason is dealers are given the "keys" to fixing them, not because they are better.
> 
> The newest vehicles now have encrypted ECMs (engine control module) so all but the very best hackers in the world cannot make computer adjustments. That is not life shattering because there are very few times you really need to reflash an ECM or change the parameters, but OEMs want to limit the "oreilly bandits".....
> 
> Not trying to generate an argument but nearly all complex systems are overlaid with complex electronics. Even HVAC in a home is going to at least have a PCB with solid states onboard for general switching, flame sensors, etc. Most are relatively easy to repair though on that front.


Have you ever looked into the control box for a traffic signal system?
There are less electronics on the space shuttle.


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## bobsmith

Andy1001 said:


> Have you ever looked into the control box for a traffic signal system?
> There are less electronics on the space shuttle.



LOL, I haven't but I have heard.... That is a MUCH more complicated process than people think. Ones that sense traffic with motion sensors, time of day alogrithms , redundancy systems, light failure detection, high speed buss for controller link, there is a LOT there. No wonder they do an extensive traffic study to decide when they are needed.


----------



## Andy1001

bobsmith said:


> LOL, I haven't but I have heard.... That is a MUCH more complicated process than people think. Ones that sense traffic with motion sensors, time of day alogrithms , redundancy systems, light failure detection, high speed buss for controller link, there is a LOT there. No wonder they do an extensive traffic study to decide when they are needed.


I used to design traffic management systems for entire cities for a living.


----------



## personofinterest

bobsmith said:


> ^^ Not even sure what happened to the original topic. I will watch my step so as not to offend. Ikaika mentions no fixing cars because they are "computers on wheels", and POI says her man "can do wonders with a car" but "something electrical is awry, he gets help".
> 
> This is a part of my brain I cannot stand, cannot ignore it... I have never called ANYONE to fix anything in my life and I live a VERY diverse electrical and mechanical life.
> 
> Ikaika is correct, nearly every system in a car today is either electric or monitored by electrics. Absolutely zero way for someone to be good with cars but suck at electronics. That limits you to about changing the oil and fixing a flat. car OEMs for years have been moving things in a direction where NO ONE can repair them without a dealer. The only reason is dealers are given the "keys" to fixing them, not because they are better.
> 
> The newest vehicles now have encrypted ECMs (engine control module) so all but the very best hackers in the world cannot make computer adjustments. That is not life shattering because there are very few times you really need to reflash an ECM or change the parameters, but OEMs want to limit the "oreilly bandits".....
> 
> Not trying to generate an argument but nearly all complex systems are overlaid with complex electronics. Even HVAC in a home is going to at least have a PCB with solid states onboard for general switching, flame sensors, etc. Most are relatively easy to repair though on that front.



Yeah, I'm thinking you are DEFINITELY INTJ and maybe....on the spectrum? (Both my kids are on the spectrum). I'm not sure what the point is with this. My hubby can change filters, replace spark plugs, work on parts of a transmission, etc. But he isn't going to mess with our house's wiring or take a washing machine apart in the living room. It's just odd that this is even some kind of issue....

I would be amused if it wasn't just so....weird.

So that leads me to believe that the issue, if there is one, is not why certain traits are important to women. The issue may just be that when one has not developed the necessary skills to be socially mainstream, they might have difficulty scoring a typical woman.....


----------



## notmyjamie

john117 said:


> Humor... I think not. The 55+ women I know aren't into funnymen. Marriage does that.


Really? I'm 50 and a good sense of humor is an absolute must. There is nothing worse than a guy that can't appreciate my humor. I hate making a joke and hearing crickets. I also hate being around someone who never makes me laugh. Granted, I've got 5 years before I'm in the 55+ category but all my friends love to laugh. How depressing to think humor and laughter go away as we get older.


----------



## NobodySpecial

notmyjamie said:


> Really? I'm 50 and a good sense of humor is an absolute must. There is nothing worse than a guy that can't appreciate my humor. I hate making a joke and hearing crickets. I also hate being around someone who never makes me laugh. Granted, I've got 5 years before I'm in the 55+ category but all my friends love to laugh. How depressing to think humor and laughter go away as we get older.


When the poster said "funnymen" I thought teen aged jokester. Smart humor is funny humor.


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## notmyjamie

NobodySpecial said:


> When the poster said "funnymen" I thought teen aged jokester. Smart humor is funny humor.


Ah...yes, that makes a lot more sense. At 50 I don't come into contact with too many teenaged jokesters so it wasn't even on my radar. (Unless you count one of my very best friends who can turn any song lyric into a dirty lyric. It's a talent, and at times, so creative it's very funny)


----------



## Ikaika

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Does it count that I fixed the stove in a pair of cut-offs and no shirt, putting on the old tool belt and having at it?
> 
> 
> 
> It did with my dear W.
> 
> 
> 
> After supper I was propositioned and had to play my part.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite happily




That depends whether ass crack was showing. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Andy1001 said:


> I used to design traffic management systems for entire cities for a living.


I did the same, but limited into networking rings of TLs, making sure they could communicate with the City, and let it go.

Right now I'm setting up a fiber network for 13 TLs.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Ikaika said:


> That depends whether ass crack was showing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Ha! Good one.

I dont have that luxury. 

6"3" 32" waist, 44L sport coat size, and matching arms.


----------



## Blondilocks

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Ha! Good one.
> 
> I dont have that luxury.
> 
> 6"3" 32" waist, 44L sport coat size, and matching arms.


Are you saying you have no assatall? Do your knuckles drag the ground? Forming a mental picture of a creature but can't quite remember the name...:grin2:


----------



## Blondilocks

Andy1001 said:


> I used to design traffic management systems for entire cities for a living.


There ya go - showin' your brains, again. See, this is why you don't get invited to parties.:grin2:


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Now this is a deeper subject..😁😁

To quote dear W, I have no a$$ 😉😉😍😍😁😁 !!

Which I always say yes I do, just not in excess. 

One of our favorite funnies forever.


----------



## Andy1001

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now this is a deeper subject..😁😁
> 
> To quote dear W, I have no a$$ 😉😉😍😍😁😁 !!
> 
> Which I always say yes I do, just not in excess.
> 
> One of our favorite funnies forever.


Whatever you do don’t tell her she has enough ass for both of you. 
That would be very unwise lol.


----------



## personofinterest

Andy1001 said:


> Whatever you do don’t tell her she has enough ass for both of you.
> That would be very unwise lol.


----------



## Tasorundo

If she says that again, you should just say that is why you are so full of ****.

I don't know that my abilities to solve problems and fix things has ever really helped my love life. It certainly hasn't spontaneously dropped my wife's panties! I think it is one of the qualities that makes me desirable to have around.


That actually makes me think, these qualities are not what women want in a sex partner, just a husband/boyfriend. Men read the list and see it as what women want to have sex with and they get pissed because they do have a lot of those qualities, yet don't have lots of sex.


----------



## tech-novelist

Blondilocks said:


> Are you saying you have no assatall? Do your knuckles drag the ground? Forming a mental picture of a creature but can't quite remember the name...:grin2:


I thought he was saying that his arms matched each other. >


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Ha!

Assskk me no questions and I'll tell you no lies..

😁😁😁


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

For another trait comment - the focus being debated of a good sense of humor (not smart butt or all joke telling) 
seems to be right on the money.

Experience has demonstrated being quick witted when conversing is the grease that moves things along to getting closer.

Being able to see the humor in certain things has proven to be a plus.
Not everything to be a joke, but not all things to be dead serious at all times.

Humor in my choice of dear Wife was a big part, for the flip side.


----------



## Andy1001

Tasorundo said:


> If she says that again, you should just say that is why you are so full of ****.
> 
> I don't know that my abilities to solve problems and fix things has ever really helped my love life. It certainly hasn't spontaneously dropped my wife's panties! I think it is one of the qualities that makes me desirable to have around.
> 
> 
> That actually makes me think, these qualities are not what women want in a sex partner, just a husband/boyfriend. Men read the list and see it as what women want to have sex with and they get pissed because they do have a lot of those qualities, yet don't have lots of sex.


Some men have this idea that if they do everything that a girl asks them to,she will fall into their arms and make mad passionate love. 
Wrong!
These men are called nice guys and we all know where nice guys finish. 
Some women will pull **** tests just to see how far they can push the men in their lives. These women are called *****es and should be avoided at all costs. 
I wrote this on a thread on tam about two and a half years ago and I got suitably chastised by some of the older female posters.
When I was younger I called for a woman for our second date,she wasn’t ready and she asked me to wash the dirty dishes in her sink and put them away. 
So I did wash them,I threw them in her pool. 
She didn’t see them until the following morning and she wasn’t too pleased. I explained that chlorine is great for cleaning dishes but she still wasn’t happy and told me to **** off!
Which just goes to show that you can’t please some women.


----------



## Andy1001

Blondilocks said:


> There ya go - showin' your brains, again. See, this is why you don't get invited to parties.:grin2:


You’ve just reminded me it’s my wife’s birthday on Monday. 
I suppose, all things considered I should buy her a card seeing as it’s our first year of being married. 
I wonder will she expect one every year.


----------

