# concerned husband



## badbane

My wife has been wonderful for the last 4 years of our five year marriage. My wife was in an abusive previous marriage. My wife has started getting over most of the baggage from that. She is now starting to have friends again. Unfortunately she is type of woman that has always had guy friends. She is also naive when it comes to men. She doesn't get that most men are around her to get in her pants.
My wife is stunningly beautiful. When she left her ex-husband several men offered to leave their marriages for her. She has been hit on by doctors, foreign diplomats, professional athlete's, and she gets eye-banged just about everywhere we go. 
I am not the jealous type and she has never done anything suspicious. 
She has a new guy friend. Who she has just started talking to for two months. She has told me that they are just friends and that if I am uncomfortable she will stop communicating. 
I wasn't concerned until I looked at the phone bill and they are having 50 to 70 minute conversations on a regular basis. My wife has been open with me so far. Yesterday she was about 30 minutes late coming home. It was the same day I checked the phone records. She told me she was late coming home because of work. She did not tell me about the 70 minute phone conversation with her new friend. I confronted her about it and she said it was totally innocent. That the conversation was just friendship type stuff. She said it "wasn't worth bringing up because it was her talking to a friend. We weren't doing anything that really made me think I needed to tell you." I told her that she needs to tell me whenever she talks to her male friends to prevent further problems. I also told her that talking to a friend over and hour for three days straight wasn't normal. (it could be but I just never had friends like that)
I am concerned that my wife, who loves to fix people, might be setting herself up for an EA. I work in the I.T. field so I know there are no FB accounts, hidden email accounts, I have not used a keylogger but I know if there is anything behind closed doors she is too smart to use a computer. I haven't snooped the phone or text message conversations. I check every now and then and I have not seen anything suspicious. There are no extra phone lines or burner phones. 

What do you guys think. I know many of you are biased, and maybe I need that. I am trying to decide whether or not to end their communication. She has been open and honest with me. So far she says that they both has set boundaries in their friendship. The Friend has been a WH before and admitted it to my wife. He R with his wife but he tells my wife their marriage isn't going that well. 

So for now I am not interfering except for her telling me whenever she communicates with her male friends. I told her that I am fine with her having male friends as long as there is 100% transparency. Should i go further?


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## Seesaw

First step, ask if the three of you can go out somewhere or if he can come over for coffee. If that is a problem, you have a problem. If he needs fixing, you should be included in that as far as you want to be.


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## AngryandUsed

Since you no evidence so far - of her cheating, continue remaining vigilant.
I am inclined to believe that your trust is dwindling with this man in the picture.
Why dont you sit her down and explain your thoughts to her?
What is your gut saying?

If a married man is confiding to your wife about his problems in his present marriage, it is not a good sign.

Take care.


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## TRy

badbane said:


> I am not the jealous type and she has never done anything suspicious.


 "Jealous" is an often misused word that allows some spouses to ignore normal marraige boundaries. Do not fall into this trap. There is nothing wrong with being jealous if you have reason to be jealous. Stop worrying about being called the "jealous type" and start setting up marriage boundaries that both of you are comfortable with. 


badbane said:


> She has a new guy friend. Who she has just started talking to for two months. She has told me that they are just friends and that if I am uncomfortable she will stop communicating


 Since she told you that if you are uncomfortable with the relationship she will cut it off, why not just man up and tell her to cut it off.


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## TRy

badbane said:


> The Friend has been a WH before and admitted it to my wife. He R with his wife but he tells my wife their marriage isn't going that well.


 Even people that have boundaries that allow opposite sex friends would have problems with this guy. He is an admitted cheater that did not respect the vows of his own marraige, that will have even less respect for yours. By telling your wife that he is a cheater and that his marraige is not going well, he is telling your wife that he is available to her for an affair should she want one. This guy wants to sleep with your wife. Why are you letting him get the opportunist to work her? 

Since you are OK with opposites sex friends, tell your wife that she can still have opposites sex friends but just not this guy.


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## Acabado

She has to start reading:
*Emotional Infidelity*
*Boundaries in Marriage*


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## Entropy3000

Do His Needs Her Needs together and do the boudnary setting.

This is NOT about cheating. Cheating can be the end result but this is an EA or one waiting to happen. 

An EA will take away and damge your relationship period. The problem is once it gets momentum it is next to impossible to put the genie back in the bottle and ecen if you get it handled the damage done can last years if not forever. 

The key to dealing with EAs is to deal with them quickly. Time is not on your side. They can escalate over night.

Realize that most folks in an EA do not see it as so. They are just close friends. Personally I think you have enough information to assert that this is not acceptable to you. if you sit back and wait you will watch your wife get drawn deeper and deeper in.

You already know the relationship is inappropriate. You just do not know if it is ready to go to unfaithful. Cheating is just a stage of being unfaithful.

Is he a co-worker? How does she know this man?

My wife challenged me durng my EA. I was certain we were just friends. After I went through withdrawal I realized my wife was right.

While you say she has always had male friends it sounds like this was not the case during your marriage. She had a failed marriage already. Who knows if her having male friends did any damage their as well.

Be aware that at some point there is history re-writing. This guy may indeed enjoy her friendship but he also wants in her pants.


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## Entropy3000

TRy said:


> Even people that have boundaries that allow opposite sex friends would have problems with this guy. He is an admitted cheater that did not respect the vows of his own marraige, that will have even less respect for yours. By telling your wife that he is a cheater and that his marraige is not going well, he is telling your wife that he is available to her for an affair should she want one. This guy wants to sleep with your wife. Why are you letting him get the opportunist to work her?
> 
> *Since you are OK with opposites sex friends, tell your wife that she can still have opposites sex friends but just not this guy.*


I agree with the bolded but at some point you want to set general boundaries around what is and what is not acceptable with opposite sex friends.


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## badbane

I have no problem telling her to end the relationship. My level of concern is very low. I have no problem going into fact finding mode. I know they are not texting alot since it is not showing up in the data plan. I know what his phone number is. I have talked to the guy briefly and the conversation didn't seem awkward. I do think that a face to face encounter is the next step I will take. I am not jealous of this guy. I just am just a very suspicious person by nature. Due to my past and having my circle of friends turn on me for their benefit growing up. I sometimes get more suspicious than a given situations warrant. That is why I don't want to over react to the situation. 
I will start pushing harder for f2f contact. I want to know more about this guy other than what my wife is telling me.
I can in a one hour have all of her FB private messages sent to my phone. as well as all her email.

Thank you guys for taking the time to read this. My wife had no friends when I first met her due to the trauma of her first marriage. She has other guy friends who I have met and am cool with. I will see how the F2F goes. My wife hasn't talked to him in a couple of days and didn't fight with me on anything she was understanding of everything. If my wife and I meet this guy f2f and I can tell he's not interested in me at all. That will be the last of their conversations.


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## Entropy3000

TRy said:


> "Jealous" is an often misused word that allows some spouses to ignore normal marraige boundaries. Do not fall into this trap. There is nothing wrong with being jealous if you have reason to be jealous. Stop worrying about being called the "jealous type" and start setting up marriage boundaries that both of you are comfortable with.
> *Since she told you that if you are uncomfortable with the relationship she will cut it off, why not just man up and tell her to cut it off.*


Yes. This may be the last flight out of Casablanca. Take it. Otherwise you are giving her tacet approval to take this even deeper. She will not see this as approval for status quo. You will have approved all the rest that is coming along which you will find is going to become seeing each other and hanging out ( dating ). You will find out after the fact. When you do you will be told that she did not tell you because she did not want to make you jealous. Many men then start trying to prove they are not jealous. The exact opposite thing they should do.

Men who worry about being called jealous, insecure and controlling are controlled by fear. It then becomes darwinian as you are more likely to lose you wife to a man who has no fear. She likes that in him. 

You are being tested. The hineymoon is over. She is ready for the next fittest male. Be that guy. Show her that you care enough about her to stand your ground while you can still come out the good guy.


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## lordmayhem

Like others have said, this is an EA or one about to happen. She's on the slippery slope here. When two people start sharing intimate details like marital problems, this builds INTIMACY....part of the progress toward an EA. They are already having long intimate chats. Tell your wife that she is NOT his individual counsellor. He needs to see a professional one.

You are not being jealous, insecure, or controlling by telling to stop talki.g to this man. You are simply doing what a husband is supposed to do: protect his marriage!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badbane

Everyone's logic here is really hard to argue. I will wait to after the f2f for her sake. My wife is hopelessly naive when it comes to men. She is the kind of person that wants to fix everyone. She is looking for friends I think you guys are right. I have tried to put the shoe on the other foot just because she has finally started to make friends and come out of her shell. They are talking everyday and I just got off the phone and they make plans to call each other everyday. Forget waiting jeez I am just glad I talked to you guys. I will talk to her tonight.


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## Shaggy

I'll tell you this as a man: If I found a woman who had the time and interest to talk to me for more than even a half hour every day on the phone - I'd think she was open to being taken. If she found the time to talk for 60-70 min everyday I would know for sure that she had an open spot in her life and that if I invest the time, that I will be getting her into bed.

It's not about trusting your wife. It's about realizing that a man's reaction to seeing a woman who has so much time she is willing to invest into him, is going to take full advantage of that opportunity and go for it. 

As for your wife, why does she have so much time she is willing to invest in this other man? If she has that much free time, why isn't she investing that in being with you and building an even better marriage.

By making herself so available she is essentially screaming at the top of her lungs to every predator guy - that she is open for contact. She may not intend this, but this is very very much the message the hear.


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## New_beginning

Don't trust the data plan.

When my wife was on my phone plan, she knew I would check from time to time and she would just say oh its work related.

then she thought she was smarter than me. they started talking on yahoo messenger on her iphone and you know you cant track this. All you would see is data usage that she would tell me is her streaming pandora.

So do not trust that since she is not texting, it means they have limited interaction; i found out that it not the case.


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## Entropy3000

badbane said:


> Everyone's logic here is really hard to argue. I will wait to after the f2f for her sake. My wife is hopelessly naive when it comes to men. She is the kind of person that wants to fix everyone. She is looking for friends I think you guys are right. I have tried to put the shoe on the other foot just because she has finally started to make friends and come out of her shell. They are talking everyday and I just got off the phone and they make plans to call each other everyday. Forget waiting jeez I am just glad I talked to you guys. I will talk to her tonight.


If she is looking for a close relationship, it would be less risky to have that with someone of the same sex. That does not mean there can't be issues with that, but it seems your wife is looking to have a close bond with others. There can be much drama with this, and much concern if it involves a same sex friendship IMO. If she is going to talk about marriage issues and such especially.

Was her oppostie sex friends an issue in her previous marriage? Does she feel her EX was jealous, insecure and controlling?


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## EverRain

What about the OM wife?? Does she know that this is going on? He is attempting to R with his wife?? If there is nothing wrong with the friendship then find out if she is aware of it.


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## Complexity

Before jumping to conclusions why don't you install a key logger/VAR. Might be harmless conversation seeing as she's always had male friends. 

I just fear that she might resent you for taking away her friends if the conversations are indeed innocent.


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## KanDo

My dear brother,

Even if she is not emotionally connected to this man now, this level of contact is inappropriate. She told you she would stop it, so tell her to stop it. Don't do it in a negative way.

Sit her down and say that marriages are built on emotional, and sexual attachment. Opposite sex friendships have the potential for damaging your relationship and any friendship with another man that delves into the emotional side of their personal lfe is a huge risk. One that you and she don't need to take.

This is not about controlling, this is about protecting her, you and and the most important relationship she has: your marriage.

Good luck


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## badbane

In remembering what my wife was telling me their conversations tended to lean towards how his marriage was unfulfilling. My wife said that they both were being very cautious so they didn't cross any boundaries. I think that they he is looking for a connection and my wife is trying to fix thier relationship. Only problem is they are talking a good 40 minutes avg per day. I think that this is a road to hell quickly being paved with good intentions. This guy needs to be R with this BS rather than trying to find a best friend in my wife. This guys friend is making comments about how they are talking alot. It could just be innocent conversation. But how can you talk for fourty minutes a day about just random stuff. I think my wife's reaction will be extreme and all that but they only communicate over the phone. I will know for certain how deep this goes if they try and go underground.


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## New_beginning

Complexity said:


> Before jumping to conclusions why don't you install a key logger/VAR. Might be harmless conversation seeing as she's always had male friends.
> 
> I just fear that she might resent you for taking away her friends if the conversations are indeed innocent.


This might sound wrong but she doesn't have to know if you don't find anything. But for you, it would be a peace of mind.

Suspecting that your wife/husband is cheating is a horrible feeling. I lost 20 lbs in 4 weeks out of stress and some depression


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## MrK

No man has 70 minute conversations with a woman he doesn't want to screw. And I can't imagine that any woman is so naive to no know that regular hour long conversations daily are not WAYYY inappropriate. Plus the texting. This is anything but innocent.

I think she's in a hot and heavy physical relationship. That's WAY to much contact to be innocent.


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## badbane

I know the physical side is not there my wife and I are still having a great sexual relationship. There is nothing there.


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## Voiceofreason

So let's get this straight:


> My wife is stunningly beautiful. When she left her ex-husband several men offered to leave their marriages for her. She has been hit on by doctors, foreign diplomats, professional athlete's, and she gets eye-banged just about everywhere we go.


She is spending an hour or so on the phone regularly with a guy who has already cheated on his wife, but is in R. They talk about his marriage problems. 

So to review the bidding, he is having regular hour-long private discussions with your hot wife about problems with his marriage--after he has already cheated on his wife. Something wrong with this picture you think? Better yet, what would his wife think about her cheater husband talking about their marriage problems with a woman who gets eye-banged just about everywhere she goes?

I would respectfully suggest that you don't need to meet him f2f. You need to meet him and his wife face to face and determine whether his wife is OK with the relationship. I'm just gonna venture a wild guess that she might have an objection or two... Your wife is not helping his marriage.


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## badbane

> Your wife is not helping his marriage.


That is what I think I will use as the basis of the conversation.


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## New_beginning

I thought about confronting the married guy myself but that wouldn't do me any good; after all, my wife is giving him what he wants and he is taking it.

I would go with your gut feeling on this one.


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## New_beginning

MrK said:


> No man has 70 minute conversations with a woman he doesn't want to screw. And I can't imagine that any woman is so naive to no know that regular hour long conversations daily are not WAYYY inappropriate. Plus the texting. This is anything but innocent.
> 
> I think she's in a hot and heavy physical relationship. That's WAY to much contact to be innocent.


+1


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## badbane

Her previous husband was a emotionally and physically abusive person. My wife was almost killed before finally wising up. My wife did have affairs in her previous marriage due to the emotional abuse and her looking for some validation. Which is what he almost killed her for.


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## OldWolf57

Yet, she is still doing that now. After all she went thru, she is not naive. This is a grown woman. Every man know to use his bad marriage to get a woman to feel for him. Oldest one in the book. Also " she is too smart to use the computer ". NAIVE ??? " my level of concern is very low ", yet you are here. You my friend, need to set your wife down, and just say no. NO close male friends, and no long chats. Now wait to see if controlling come out of her mouth. If so, then you just got to the bottom of it. You may get a lil buzz knowing others are wanting what you have, but if you want to keep it, you need to have the boundry talk. And why in the heck would you want to meet this guy ? His history and present say it all. My man, there comes a time when layed back looks like beta. Even his friends are talking huh ?? Well, that should tell you he is talking about her to them. NOW, can you tell me what do you think he is telling them. I bet his MC didn't tell his to find a beautiful woman to confide in. Wake up man.


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## Complexity

badbane said:


> My wife did have *affairs* in her previous marriage due to the emotional abuse and her looking for some validation. Which is what he almost killed her for.


as in plural?! this is dangerous

then I agree with Kando, this is inappropriate and the other man shouldn't confide in your wife his marital problems, that's what marriage counsellors are for. 

I suggest you both read this
Not 'Just Friends': Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity: Amazon.co.uk: Shirley Glass, Jean Coppock Staeheli: Books


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## Count of Monte Cristo

I think it was an old Dr. Hook song that said 'when you're in love with a beautiful woman it's hard.' It appears that you enjoy having a trophy wife and get an ego boost because other men want what you have. If you don't put your foot down and let your wife knows that her friendship with this guy is inappropriate then you're just asking for them to screw each others brains out. 

This is no time for political correctness. Time is of the essence. And believe me, she's not as naive as you make her out to be. A woman can tell when she's attracting attention from males.

I'm also curious about what qualities separate you from the star athletes, doctors, diplomats, and others that have been so enthralled by your wife.


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## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> Before jumping to conclusions why don't you install a key logger/VAR. Might be harmless conversation seeing as she's always had male friends.
> 
> I just fear that she might resent you for taking away her friends if the conversations are indeed innocent.


The relaionship is not innocent. She is not cheating now. She is in an inappropriate relationship with another man. He has evidence of this already. 

He can wait a few weeks and maybe she will be deeper into the EA, but that may be way too late. The longer this goes on the greater the chance of resentment. She is already past the point of just friends. She may not realize that because she is under the influence of oxytocin adn dopamine.

How about his resentment of her bonding with OM. His resentment will grow. If she continues falling in love with this other man she will really resent the intervention.

Maybe juts my opinion but I don't think you play around with this sutff. You do not wait for the bond to get deep. You do not wait for the ILYBIANILWY speech.

But I agree he should do this keylogger so that he can validate NC.


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## OldWolf57

E3K, checkmate !! You don't play with this stuff.


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## iheartlife

badbane said:


> In remembering what my wife was telling me their conversations tended to lean towards how his marriage was unfulfilling. My wife said that they both were being very cautious so they didn't cross any boundaries.


Do you know what the #1 topic is when an emotional affair starts? The problems inside the marriage. She's telling you what he's telling her, but she's leaving out her part in this conversation.

This is precisely how most people become infatuated with someone outside of their marriage. It's exactly what my H did at the start of his affair.

I have some news for her: she ALREADY crossed marital boundaries with this type of intimate conversation.

She will minimize this every chance she gets because she is thoroughly enjoying her role as rescuer. He knows just what to say to rope 'em in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

Naive enough to have affairs in the 1st marriage ?? Yet she don't know what men want ?? YEAH RIGHT !! You being played !!


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## iheartlife

Oh, and stand by for her use of the "c" word when you confront her next--i.e., controlling. Do not fall for that one; be ready to stand your ground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

badbane said:


> *In remembering what my wife was telling me their conversations tended to lean towards how his marriage was unfulfilling.* My wife said that they both were being very cautious so they didn't cross any boundaries. I think that they he is looking for a connection and my wife is trying to fix thier relationship. Only problem is they are talking a good 40 minutes avg per day. I think that this is a road to hell quickly being paved with good intentions. This guy needs to be R with this BS rather than trying to find a best friend in my wife. This guys friend is making comments about how they are talking alot. It could just be innocent conversation. But how can you talk for fourty minutes a day about just random stuff. I think my wife's reaction will be extreme and all that but they only communicate over the phone. I will know for certain how deep this goes if they try and go underground.


If they talked about the weather or baseball it would be inappropriate for the amount of time they give to each other. They are meeting some needs for one another. They are bonding.

However, they are talking about their marriages. This IS BAD.

Look. Seriously if you have not told her to break contact and go NC you need to today.

Sorry if I missed it but who is this guy? Is he a co-worker? How did she meet him? All this matters.


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## Entropy3000

badbane said:


> I know the physical side is not there my wife and I are still having a great sexual relationship. There is nothing there.


I am not saying she is in a PA. But some are in a PA and actually up the sex with the BS. Then later they cut it off. They cake eat.


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## Entropy3000

badbane said:


> That is what I think I will use as the basis of the conversation.


She needs to work on her marriage. Also she is sharing things about her marriage she does not like. This is giving the predator a way in.


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## Complexity

Entropy3000 said:


> The relaionship is not innocent. She is not cheating now. She is in an inappropriate relationship with another man. He has evidence of this already.
> 
> He can wait a few weeks and maybe she will be deeper into the EA, but that may be way too late. The longer this goes on the greater the chance of resentment. She is already past the point of just friends. She may not realize that because she is under the influence of oxytocin adn dopamine.
> 
> How about his resentment of her bonding with OM. His resentment will grow. If she continues falling in love with this other man she will really resent the intervention.
> 
> Maybe juts my opinion but I don't think you play around with this sutff. You do not wait for the bond to get deep. You do not wait for the ILYBIANILWY speech.
> 
> But I agree he should do this keylogger so that he can validate NC.


Yeah I agree with you, I didn't know they were discussing marital problems with each other. It's inappropriate and potentially dangerous.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Badbane, you have knowingly allowed the wolf to enter the hen house.


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## Entropy3000

badbane said:


> Her previous husband was a emotionally and physically abusive person. My wife was almost killed before finally wising up. My wife did have affairs in her previous marriage due to the emotional abuse and her looking for some validation. Which is what he almost killed her for.


OMG!!!!

This is what I was getting at. So you are a better guy she thinks. She is hoping she can have affairs and you will not abuse her.

This is a HUGE SMOKING GUN. You are justifying her affairs. She seems to be a serial cheater.


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## TRy

badbane said:


> In remembering what my wife was telling me their conversations tended to lean towards how his marriage was unfulfilling. My wife said that they both were being very cautious so they didn't cross any boundaries. I think that they he is looking for a connection and my wife is trying to fix thier relationship. Only problem is they are talking a good 40 minutes avg per day.


 If you read "His Needs, Her Needs" you will see that men and women do not have the same needs. In listing the top 4 needs for men, sex is number one. For women sex does not even appear in the top 4 list. What does appear in the top 4 for women is conversation which is listed as the number 2 need of women. By talking to your wife every day, even if it is innocent, the other man (OM) is meeting a top need of your wife that is more important to her than sex. Once she gets hooked on him meeting this need, she will be asked by the OM to meet his number 1 need in exchange.


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## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> Yeah I agree with you, I didn't know they were discussing marital problems with each other. It's inappropriate and potentially dangerous.


But I think you were correct in setting up a way to validate her NC.


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## Entropy3000

TRy said:


> If you read "His Needs, Her Needs" you will see that men and women do not have the same needs. In listing the top 4 needs for men, sex is number one. For women sex does not even appear in the top 4 list. What does appear in the top 4 for women is conversation which is listed as the number 2 need of women. By talking to your wife every day, even if it is innocent, the other man (OM) is meeting a top need of your wife that is more important to her than sex. Once she gets hooked on him meeting this need, she will be asked by the OM to meet his number 1 need in exchange.


Exactly. Women often have to connect with a man before they have sex. Men often have to sex with a woman to fully connect.


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## TRy

badbane said:


> My wife did have affairs in her previous marriage due to the emotional abuse and her looking for some validation.


 There is never a reason to cheat. Divorces are now easy to get. If she was unhappy she should have just divorced him. By you buying into her excuse, you are validating to her that cheating is an option to her when she is unhappy.

BTW, almost every cheating wife claims emotional abuse as a reason for cheating. Since every cheater also lies about their affair to cover it up, why would you believe that a cheater is telling the truth when they tell you their excuse for cheating?

The other man (OM) is a proven cheater. Your wife is a proven cheater. And now the OM is becoming your wife's new best friend, and you are being asked to trust her on this?


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## MattMatt

Your wife is a danger to herself.

One day she might find one of her 'project males' getting sexually aggressive.


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## Martin12

Well, everyone's just about said it all.

You have to look at it from the OM's point of view. C'mon, you are a man. Your wife is beautiful. He's on a mission. He is determined to do what he can to get inside of her, if he hasn't already. For all you know, he's learned every seduction trick there is.

The point about your wife not helping his marriage was also spot-on.


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## MrK

I don't understand why people come here for advice (there is obviously a problem), the advice they get is UNIVERSAL in a certain direction, then they go on denying the obvious is not happening. 

OP - What are you going to do? You came here thinking it may be inappropriate. Did we somehow change your mind that it's NOT?

:scratchhead:


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## sculley

I think when a women is late getting home because she is talking to another guy it can mean a couple of different things. Why is she secretive, why can't she be on the phone around you with this guy? Then that brings me to the opposite thought I know when I'm home its me and my family and rarely anything else comes into the picture was she being there for a friend before she came home out of respect? I think since she is finally coming out of her shell maybe you should ask if the three of you can meet up for drinks or something and let her know it would make you feel better knowing the friend mutually..I know I am like that with my hubby I dont mind meeting friend but if I get a weird feeling something is going on I would definitely point it out to her, she has already told you she would stop communications if need be so it sounds like she really doesnt have anything invested in this....at least not yet. I can side with her because when I am a friend to me being there for a friend is important. Just something to think about from a womans POV


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## Bottled Up

badbane, I'm probably only reiterating here what everyone has already said a million different ways... but the fact is your gut is telling you something and now you're here. There's a reason for your concern.

The OM is definitely fishing your wife as an affair partner. And the conversations he's having with her, like sharing personal information about his troubled relationship, is a classic textbook strategy for men to lure women into their world. Men know that women thrive on conversation and feelings, so they create scenarios that they know would be "appetizing" to a woman to lure her in.

Your wife may have the best intentions in the world but she may not even realize she is being baited into the beginning of an EA... this guy is laying the path for her and she is walking blindly right down that path which eventually leads right into his arms (and pants).

She needs to end her relationship to this guy pronto... not because you don't trust her, but because YOU KNOW this guy is intentionally luring her away from you. It's not even a question in your mind at this point... he's doing it, and she needs to open her eyes before it's too late and she finds herself blissfully involved too deep in his world that she actually doesn't even want to get out, because at that point she's being emotionally stimulated by him and most people cannot stop themselves from receiving emotional stimulation.

In a very generic breakdown, each gender has their own weakness. Men get their emotional bonding fulfillment from having sex with their partner. Women get their emotional bonding fulfillment from acts of affection and conversation (listening).

This guy is baiting your wife on her gender weaknesses. He is filling her theoretical "love tank" with points in his favor and eventually he'll gain so many "points" she'll favor him and build up a need to keep him in her life.

Time is working against you. She needs to understand the seriousness of what's going on here and she needs to end this relationship. I would also start drawing a serious boundary for her on relationships with the other gender in general too.


----------



## Shaggy

The old "I'm helping him with his marriage" line. So that's the angle he's using to get her to talk at length daily.

If he's worried about his marriage he should stop putting so much time into talking about his feelings with your wife, and talk to his own. 

Or perhaps they should go to MC.

But your wife needs to get out of this relationship immediately. He is clearly working, and very much succeeding in worming his way into her emotional boundaries - boundaries no man other then her husband should be allowed into!

I actually worry that they are already in an EA and when you try to end it - he will fight for her and even push for it to go underground. He clearly has high hopes of getting her in bed, and he isn't going to just easily walk away from the huge investment of time he's already put into her.

Now, her having a history of cheating - well that blows away your comment about being naive. An experience cheater is many things, but I think you can rule out naive.

As someone who's had numerous affairs you really should not be in anyway accepting of your wife having close male friends. Not one. Sorry, but cheaters - even ones who are "reformed" - are still people who have in the core of their moral decision tree the stuff that let them choose to cheat, and to do it over and over. All it takes it the right circumstances and that decision tree inside them will once again tell them it's perfectly OK to cheat.


----------



## Bottled Up

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## iheartlife

MrK said:


> I don't understand why people come here for advice (there is obviously a problem), the advice they get is UNIVERSAL in a certain direction, then they go on denying the obvious is not happening.
> 
> OP - What are you going to do? You came here thinking it may be inappropriate. Did we somehow change your mind that it's NOT?
> 
> :scratchhead:


My theory about this--because we see it often--is that the advice-seeker is very afraid of the fallout of confrontation. They are fearful that the spouse who is crossing the boundary is going to turn around and put the loyal spouse in their place. That is, the loyal actively fears being told they are "controlling." Nothing cows the modern husband like that word.

If it hasn't been suggested already, I recommend that the OP look at
No More Mr. Nice Guy and
Married Man Sex Life (as chap always says, not a sex manual)

because I suspect that this may be your core issue. You want to be respectful to your wife--you are, after all, a modern husband--but at the same time you expect her to adhere to reasonable boundaries in marriage. These books show you how to go about doing this--assertiveness and confidence in your marriage are not about rudeness, anger, or physical domination. 

Here is your core dilemma (I imagine--just based on the posts): you don't want to anger her or alienate her. But confidently drawing boundaries in marriage results in MORE admiration and attraction to you, not less. People universally respect people who stand up for themselves, and a spouse in a marriage is no different; the end result (you may not reach it instantaneously) is that she will be proud that she has a self-respecting spouse who values their marriage.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

After this guy takes your trophy wife maybe next time you will marry an ugly woman who'll make you happy.

[Apologies to Jimmy Soul.]


----------



## Toffer

Bad,

Time to listen to these folks and dig deeper. There may not be something going on but better that you check it out to be sure.


----------



## badbane

Update 

My wife and I didn't have a big blow up. I am making her talk to me. I am also letting her know that I am monitoring the conversations. I plan on cutting this guy out of her life. The cheating in the previous relationship was b/c her ex got her pregnant at 18 while she was passed out after her prom. She married him cause she lived in a very religious home and small town. The guy cut off her friends, forced her to tell him where she was at all times. She worked nights 12 hours shifts and if she didn't make hime breakfast after coming home. He would get violent. 
There was horrible physical abuse. She was in her mid twenties before she got enough courage to leave. 
She met me and I really must say she has been a good wife. I do trust her. She has has other guy friends that she has not done anything with. 
I do trust her I don't trust this new friend though. I do know that if I make her quit cold turkey it will end in resentment. I came here because I wanted clarity. When I get suspicious I don't think clearly and I have overreacted to situations before. 
Since this all started we have been talking a lot more. If they start finding another way to communicate. I will go NC and I appreciate the advice. I just have to do what I think is best. I know some of you will be screaming at your monitors and furiously typing responses. I am not rug sweeping. I don't have any sort of evidence. Please be patient and I will keep updating as I go along. I am not going to let this get out of control.


----------



## lordmayhem

badbane said:


> Her previous husband was a emotionally and physically abusive person. My wife was almost killed before finally wising up. *My wife did have affairs in her previous marriage due to the emotional abuse* and her *looking for some validation*. Which is what he almost killed her for.


Whoah. This is new since the last time I visited this thread since yesterday. Now domestic violence is always wrong, but did you ever stop to think that her cheating on him is what brought it on? You made a huge point about your wife being super hot, stunningly beautiful, that guys would leave their marriages for her. 

I don't give a sh!t how hot a woman is, I'm not going to leave my marriage for her just because she's a trophy wife, I would have to be in a relationship with her. 

And now you admitted that she cheated with various guys, because she's so hot like you say, she can have practically any man that she wants. She needs constant validation.

With this new information, I would say she IS a serial cheater. Just because you haven't abused her, doesn't mean she won't cheat on you. She craves the attention of other men. If she isn't cheating with this guy now, she soon will be. You're gonna have to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life.


----------



## Acabado

> She is also naive when it comes to men. She doesn't get that most men are around her to get in her pants.





> My wife did have affairs in her previous marriage due to the emotional abuse and her looking for some validation.


 Those are two totally *contradictory* statements. *She's not naive*. She needs to read Not just friends, to familiarice with the concept of slipery slope, how you can't let any man meet certain emotional needs, your wife has *no boundaires* (which way the way is the only reason she let herself being abused by her first husband and had affairs to begin with).
She needs to learn what a healthy marriage and healthy partner look like because she has it all blurred.

You need to teach her what is acceptable and what's not and make sure you are not a controling, abusive husband, just a normal one which demands respect to his perfectly normal personal boundaires. Maybe a third, professional, party might help you make her understand about healthy boundaires on a normal marriages. She also needs to dig within to undertand why she only enjoy male friends in order to lear to enjoy female friends.


----------



## lordmayhem

Acabado said:


> Those are two totally *contradictory* statements. *She's not naive*. She needs to read Not just friends, to familiarice with the concept of slipery slope, how you can't let any man meet certain emotional needs, your wife has *no boundaires* (which way the way is the only reason she let herself being abused by her first husband and had affairs to begin with).
> She needs to learn what a healthy marriage and healthy partner look like because she has it all blurred.
> 
> You need to teach her what is acceptable and what's not and make sure you are not a controling, abusive husband, just a normal one which demands respect to his perfectly normal personal boundaires. Maybe a third, professional, party might help you make her understand about healthy boundaires on a normal marriages. She also needs to dig within to undertand why she only enjoy male friends in order to lear to enjoy female friends.


:iagree:

I'm glad you caught that. These new revelations have made me change my mind. She's playing him. Many WW's, and I'm sure some of the BWs here will agree, that the OW will often portray her husband as emotionally and/or physically abusive, so I'm beginning to doubt her story. I wouldn't be surprised if she was portraying the OP the same way to these other guys.


----------



## The Middleman

I haven't gone through every post here but your story sounds a lot like mine, so what I would like to do is point you out to my story and and point out how I handled it. Admittedly, I was a "Bull in a China Shop", but I achieved the result I wanted. Some variation of what I did might work for you.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ition-anyway-did-i-over-react.html#post726990

I come from the school of thought that Men and Women can't be "Just Friends". You can take that to the bank. Over the long haul sh1t is going to happen. If I were in your shoes, i would do this (not necessarily in this order):

1. Make it clear that you are uncomfortable with this relationship and you would like it to end. If this is not an option for your wife then the next best thing is that all contact with this person must be open and transparent. You want the right to be present for all phone calls, full access to all e-mails and text messages and meeting this clown is not an option with or without your presence.

2. Violations of the above boundaries are deal breakers. She is putting the marriage at risk. DON'T BACK DOWN ON THIS.

3. Talk to this guy and let him know you don't like this" relationship" and you want it to end. If he continues, then you know for certain that he doesn't give a sh1t about your marriage and he want's to use your wife as a sperm repository. (Sorry, I call it as I see it)

4. Don't be afraid to block e-mail addresses, cancel cell phone accounts disconnect Internet if you deem it necessary. Taking a strong position from the beginning will save you headaches down the road. If your wife can't see why this is necessary, then maybe she's not the right person for you. (again, just how I see it).

I can expand further, but I'm not on a real computer (on vacation). Do yourself a favor, don't stand for this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Badblood

OK, Badbane, lets recap, shall we? Your wife ( former cheater) is really hot. She is having long conversations with another man (also former cheater) that you are not allowed to be a part of. Why? Why the hell do you think? BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT. Dude, the only naive person here is you. NOBODY has an hour and ten minute "chat", about "friend stuff". Does she ever meet or has she ever met this guy? Are there times during the day when she is un-accountable ? You need to get to the bottom of this and do it fast. This has nothing at all to do with jealousy, this has everything to do with you protecting your marriage. Your wife is on the verge of cheating again, and if you don't do something about it, you have nobody to blame but yourself.


----------



## TBT

badbane said:


> I am also letting her know that I am monitoring the conversations.
> 
> If they start finding another way to communicate.


By letting her know you're monitoring her conversations she can pretty well tailor them any way she wants,while at the same time finding other methods to communicate her true intention concerning OM.It might be wise to keep monitoring closer to the vest.


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## Acabado

Also, she needs also to learn to valildate herself from within because for now she's used to get validated from men, no matter how ''innocent'' looks like at first hand. She's accustomed to feel afirmed by males using the poor abused wife line. She knows no better it seems. It has to stop. Yesterday. The more I think about it the more evident is she needs tons of IC. I'd demand it, with the intention of later get some MC.


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## badbane

the abuse happened before the affairs started. And I made sure that I did not let on that I was monitoring any other forms of communication. She thinks I am just watching phone records. Which Is only a small portion of What i can monitor. Trust me if tries to communicate with her in any other way I will know about it.


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## lordmayhem

badbane said:


> the abuse happened before the affairs started.


I don't know if you know this, but battered women generally don't cheat....they're afraid to. They spend the marriage walking on eggshells trying everything to please the man that's abusing them, because they think that if only they were a better wife, their man won't abuse them. 

Your wife not only had one affair, she had multiple affairs. Doesn't sound like a woman thats afraid of a beating and the hands of their controlling, abusive husband. I'm surprised she had time for a single affair, let alone multiple affairs, especially if the controlling, abusive husband was watching her every move.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Badbane, would you trust a stranger with your brand new Porsche 911 Turbo? Then why the heck are you doing so with your goddess of a wife?


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## The Middleman

Badbane:
Please explain to me why you aren't on the phone to this guy, right now, telling him to lay the f**k off of your wife? Why haven't you contacted his wife letting her know what her douche bag of a husband is doing? If you don't take immediate action, this guy is going to have your wife with her legs in the air in a sleazy motel somewhere. Now, picture that scene in your head and tell me your afraid to take a stand and protect your marriage. I wanted to be more graphic to make a point but I'm not sure how far this site will let me go, but you get the picture.


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## badbane

I am not making this easy on my wife believe me. She knows if she contacts him without telling me and I find out. I will kill the communication. If she meets him, without telling me before hand, it is over. I told her not to talk to him until she talks to his wife and tells her the entire story of their relationship. If my wife does decide to step out on me. Then we have been married 3 yrs. I will leave take my son and she can deal with herself. I have to be able to trust her and that marriage comes first for her too. She has to be willing to put our marriage first. I am watching like a hawk and if something happens then so be it. I will know that she wasn't worth my time. If she can't see this guy for what he is then forget her. I have done enough to let me sleep good at night. If she decides to try him out. I will show her out. Deal with it move on with my life because it would not be worth a lifetime of suspicion and anxiety. Right now, I am going to watch like a hawk.


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## jfv

good luck. hopefully you won't need it.


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## Chaparral

badbane said:


> I am not making this easy on my wife believe me. She knows if she contacts him without telling me and I find out. I will kill the communication. If she meets him, without telling me before hand, it is over. I told her not to talk to him until she talks to his wife and tells her the entire story of their relationship. If my wife does decide to step out on me. Then we have been married 3 yrs. I will leave take my son and she can deal with herself. I have to be able to trust her and that marriage comes first for her too. She has to be willing to put our marriage first. I am watching like a hawk and if something happens then so be it. I will know that she wasn't worth my time. If she can't see this guy for what he is then forget her. I have done enough to let me sleep good at night. If she decides to try him out. I will show her out. Deal with it move on with my life because it would not be worth a lifetime of suspicion and anxiety. Right now, I am going to watch like a hawk.


I was thinking the nice guy cloak of doom was over your eyes but maybe not.


----------



## The Middleman

chapparal said:


> I was thinking the nice guy cloak of doom was over your eyes but maybe not.


I agree, although I still think a conversation with this a$$wipe (the OM) is in order.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

It is good that you trust your wife's version of her affairs(Affairs or affair? multiple is real bad. Gives you an idea of her mindset) but more often than not the actual stories are a little different. While you should trust your wife, as a 3rd party, I would be a little suspicious of her stories. It could have been a toxic relationship between those two(W and her ex) where they abused one another(physical vs emotional) and you only got her version. It is easier to sympathize with a female abuse victim and some take advantage of that.

So keep your eyes open to other possibilities. Good luck


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## Chaparral

What everyone is asking is who did you get the details of her previous marriage, abuse and infidelity from?


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## BigLiam

I think if several guys really and truly offeredd to leave their marriages for her, she participated in encouraging this.
No offense, but women with appearances similar to your wife are not all that rare(just like there are a few guys as good looking as me).
Seriously, though , you are probably overestimating your wife's beauty in terms of thinking that docs, pro athletes etc offer to leave their marriages to be with her. Good looking , unattached women are, simply, too available. 
So, if guys were contempating leaving there families, she was involved.
That said, she hid the texting from you, right. It is way too much time wise to be innocent. WIth a backdrop of her , probably, having encouraged these other guys (the docs etc), I would be worried.


----------



## BigLiam

badbane said:


> Her previous husband was a emotionally and physically abusive person. My wife was almost killed before finally wising up. My wife did have affairs in her previous marriage due to the emotional abuse and her looking for some validation. Which is what he almost killed her for.


Yeah, she was so fearful of this violent man, that she had multiple affairs as the solution.Pleeeeze, tell me you are not buying this.
If you dig deeper, I think you may find your wife is lying about her ex.

People in fear of violent spouses do not have multiple affairs, thus provoking the allegedly violent spouse.


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## BigLiam

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Badbane, you have knowingly allowed the wolf to enter the hen house.


Yes, but the hen invited the wolf and the hen has done this in a past marriage.
Trying to stop her may be like shoveling sand against the tide.


----------



## BigLiam

badbane said:


> Update
> 
> My wife and I didn't have a big blow up. I am making her talk to me. I am also letting her know that I am monitoring the conversations. I plan on cutting this guy out of her life. The cheating in the previous relationship was b/c her ex got her pregnant at 18 while she was passed out after her prom. She married him cause she lived in a very religious home and small town. The guy cut off her friends, forced her to tell him where she was at all times. She worked nights 12 hours shifts and if she didn't make hime breakfast after coming home. He would get violent.
> There was horrible physical abuse. She was in her mid twenties before she got enough courage to leave.
> She met me and I really must say she has been a good wife. I do trust her. She has has other guy friends that she has not done anything with.
> I do trust her I don't trust this new friend though. I do know that if I make her quit cold turkey it will end in resentment. I came here because I wanted clarity. When I get suspicious I don't think clearly and I have overreacted to situations before.
> Since this all started we have been talking a lot more. If they start finding another way to communicate. I will go NC and I appreciate the advice. I just have to do what I think is best. I know some of you will be screaming at your monitors and furiously typing responses. I am not rug sweeping. I don't have any sort of evidence. Please be patient and I will keep updating as I go along. I am not going to let this get out of control.


Your wife's story is really full of holes. He got her pregnat while she was passed out? I doubt that. Was he charged with sexual asssault?
He would beat her for not making breakfast? How many times was he arrested? 
She cheated on a known violent man multiple times? No, this is a crock. We see this all the time.


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## Acabado

badbane, you can't watch like a hawk forever, if she wants she will cheat. Also you can't ''talk'' with every potential AP outhere to scare them.
What you can do is enforce you personal boundaires and demand her to get her head straight about healthy marriages, healthy boundaires, healthy friendships, internal validation... Only de fact she was in a abusive marriage (lets accept it for now) and the fact she serialy cheated in the past means, scream symphonies, she needs IC and you should demand it along with some readings.
Her past will write her future if she doesn't change within.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Having read all of the posts ,I think everyone here agrees with one thing.
Badbane has his " eyes wide shut."
I don't think there is much he can do. If he ups the ante, she WILL BECOME RESENTFUL. If he puts an end to her relationship with the OM she will eventually START ANOTHER ONE. If he does the 180 thing , she will seek validation outside.
This one is tricky.
If I were him I would leave. [ But that's just me...]
I know of a situation similar to his. Funny how PEOPLE ARE THE SAME WHEREVER YOU GO...
I know this lady,very beautiful married to this guy. Only PROBLEMS in their marriage. [ I know her husband well too] She has had multiple affairs. And her story IS THE SAME. Husband is abusive [ According to her.] 
Her Marriage was arranged when she was 19. She is a very successful woman,but she has some " fatal flaws."

1] She loves to talk with men she deem as " intelligent ,successful ,"etc.
2] She craves the attention the attention of such men.

I have known the woman for years,and she is constantly unhappy.
My belief is that she cannot be fixed and she needs professional help. Of course she disagrees. Hence my first belief.
She cannot be fixed.


----------



## lordmayhem

I'd rather have a wife who's faithful to her vows...a partner that I can trust, than one I can't trust and have to constantly babysit and watch for the rest of my life. There's more to a spouse than mere looks.


----------



## bandit.45

lordmayhem said:


> I'd rather have a wife who's faithful to her vows...a partner that I can trust, than one I can't trust and have to constantly babysit and watch for the rest of my life. There's more to a spouse than mere looks.


Brother don't I know it.


----------



## keko

badbane, you married a good looking, easy going, serial cheater I think you should be very concerned.

Since she was late from work one day you might want to get tested for STDs right away and use protection from now on.

Have you placed VARs(voice activated recorder) to listen to the content of her conversations, in her car and in the house? What about the text messages can you read them? Which phone is she using? 

Did you GPS her car to check her whereabouts on the days she is late from work? Or can you check on her on a day which she says she'll be late?


----------



## OldWolf57

BB, not saying she did anything with the guy. I'm familiar with childhoods such as hers, can even see the prom night. But lets stick to the problem now. Its time to set boundries in your marriage. Your wife is not a MC, and sharing intimate details of his marriage, is him bonding with her. No married person should invest emotionally in someone outside their family. Especially someone of the opposite sex. We all have friends, and we care and feel for them, but there are boundries where it is not ok to cross even in frriendships. Remember, this is a new friend, so she has no history of enough long standing to be investing mentally and emotionally in his marital problems. But you see, if we go back to the first marriage, lest just say, she comes to work that night crying, a coworker, consoles her, she clings, they get carried away. Now comes today, friend needs consoling, oh my bad marriage, they meet, hold hands, she goes home feeling good about giving him someone to vent to. The problem is, she now associate good feelings with him. Just talking and holding hands. So she is now invested. But what happens when he is so dismayed that handholding won't console him ?? Will she want to reject him as low as he is feeling ?? To PROTECT your wife and marriage, you do what Middleman and one other did. SHUT DOWN the FRIENDSHIP NOW !!! I would rather have a resentful wife, than a wife that is tearing herself and our marriage up over letting things get away from her helping a friend. Explain it to her this way. " have I ever had a problem with you having male friends ? Do you trust me ? I am uneasy with this friendship and want it ended. It is causing me stress and as my wife, you should not put friendship over me." Personally, I would do like MM and the guy who wife went ot rebuild in NO. You go proactive.


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## Chaparral

If at all possible you need to hear some of these convos. You still need to nip this whole thing inthe bud.


----------



## Aristotle

I understand you do not want to be the new abusive husband that is "controlling" and keeps her from having "male friends." She had men offer to leave their spouses when she got single, she knows EXACTLY what men want. 

As a married man, I know the last person on earth I would want to talk with is another married woman. It is hard enough keeping the line of communication open with my own wife, let alone another married woman. 

I am not okay at all with any male/female relationship. If she thinks it's okay to talk to another man for an hour, she has a twisted sense of reality. She is a married woman. What man talks to a woman for an hour, 3 days in a row, and doesn't want more? I do not care if he meets you or not, he wants more. Why even let your wife play with this situation? Are you scared of being "controlling". That isn't controlling, that's called keeping your marriage. Male friends? No, acquaintances, maybe.... but phone calls or txt messages all night? No.


----------



## Posse

badbane said:


> She has told me that they are just friends and that if I am uncomfortable she will stop communicating.


She is either asking for permission to continue developing a bond with another man, and you are giving her permission to do so, or she is just paying lip service to you.

Later on in this thread you say she will become resentful if you ask her to stop communicating with the Other Man. (That is what he is)

Which is it? She is either willing to stop talking to this guy, or she is not.

If she is going to be resentful about it, that is a big red flag there.


----------



## badbane

Update last night my wife and I got into it. I told her She is not to talk to this guy until he talks on the phone to his wife. I told her she needs to tell the wife everything before any more communication happens with this man. My wife has never heard of an emotional affair before. I made sure that she knew all about that. My wife started making innuendos asking if it was okay to text him. I said hello no. Not until you talk to his wife and tell her that you two have been talking an almost and hour every day. My wife is definitley too close to this guy as now the idea of not talking to him was stressing her out. Which as much as I wanted to I resisted the urge to go full out $$#hole on this guy. I am going to end this with them. But when I am done I want to make sure this OM is watching over his shoulder to. 
And to clarify a local pro basketball player, a spanish foriegn ambassador, and the doctors at the hospital she works at have all made passes. The men that offered the leave thier wives were middle class guys whose sons played sports with my stepson.

Anyway for now, barring any underhandedness, things are calm.


----------



## keko

keko said:


> Have you placed VARs(voice activated recorder) to listen to the content of her conversations, in her car and in the house? What about the text messages can you read them? Which phone is she using?
> 
> Did you GPS her car to check her whereabouts on the days she is late from work? Or can you check on her on a day which she says she'll be late?


----------



## Posse

I understand the anger towards the Other Man.

Your problem is with your wife, however. She is the one allowing this.

If the idea of not talking to him is stressing your wife out, it is an EA.

Forget about her talking to the Other Man's wife. YOU talk to his wife.

Your wife needs to not talk to this guy any more, period. Before, during, or after the talk with the OM's wife.

Watch out for this to go underground now.


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## OldWolf57

Now you are seeing the reasons for no wife spending that much time talking and tx with another man. Wait and see would have let her get even deeper. And since she seemed to get distressed, you may have an even bigger problem then you think. They may take it underground. You should call this guy's wife, and let her in on whats going on. Then call him, letting him know there will be no more contact between them. You never said where she met this guy. How do you know he was not one of her OM in her 1st marriage. Bro, that eye candy thats you so proud of, may be snatched right from under your nose, with your watch and monitor attitude. So keep your eyes open. If our wife has a male friend, then it should be as 2 couples. But, if I was in your shoes, None, for the forseeable future. And remember these words, controlling, privacy, don't trust me. these are the words they start using to justify going underground. you may need an app to recover deleted tx's. better an angry, resentful wife for a while, than one who stops respecting you for letting her walk all over your marriage. Good Luck BB.


----------



## KanDo

Looks like you slowly are realizing your situation. The fact that she is distressed about not communicating with this guy is all the evidence you need of an emotional affair. And dude! You should be on the phone to this guys wife NOW! This is not the role for your wife. You should call. She deserves to know what has been going on. This will likely lead to significant grief for the OM and further pressure to stop the affair.

Have your wife read some of the information on emotional affairs.

You have all the data you need. If you want to keep your wife, now is the time for consistent action the OM


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## lordmayhem

badbane said:


> Update last night my wife and I got into it. I told her She is not to talk to this guy until he talks on the phone to his wife. I told her she needs to tell the wife everything before any more communication happens with this man.


What's with this "any more communication"? She needs to go No Contact (NC). What you are doing is giving her permission to go further into the EA if you allow her any more communication.



badbane said:


> My wife has never heard of an emotional affair before. I made sure that she knew all about that. My wife started making innuendos asking if it was okay to text him. I said hello no. Not until you talk to his wife and tell her that you two have been talking an almost and hour every day. My wife is definitley too close to this guy as now the idea of not talking to him was stressing her out.


So much for "he's just a friend and if it bothers you she will stop communicating with him", right? You have your answer. This has progressed to an EA at the very least.



badbane said:


> Which as much as I wanted to I resisted the urge to go full out $$#hole on this guy. I am going to end this with them. But when I am done I want to make sure this OM is watching over his shoulder to.


Like Posse just said, your anger is misplaced. It should be at your Wayward Wife (WW), because that's what she is now. You said yourself, ambassadors, pro atheletes, doctors, etc, have made passes at your WW. None of them would be able to get near your WW *unless she allowed it*. You can't spend the rest of your life guarding her. She needs to be able to shoot these guys down, you know, like saying *"No, I'm a married woman and I love my husband and children". *That sort of thing. 

But she's a serial cheater herself, so she needs that kind of validation.



badbane said:


> And to clarify a local pro basketball player, a spanish foriegn ambassador, and the doctors at the hospital she works at have all made passes. The men that offered the leave thier wives were middle class guys whose sons played sports with my stepson.


You almost seem proud of that fact that men, some who are important or celebrities, are falling all over themselves to be with your WW. Is she like a *trophy wife* to you?



badbane said:


> Anyway for now, barring any underhandedness, things are calm.


For now. You had better be watching like others have told you to do. She's had experience in this before by your own admission. There's no reason NOT to think that you won't be the next victim. This is NOT being paranoid, this is based on her past behavior and her low boundaries towards men who feed her the extra-marital validation she seems to crave.


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## badbane

I agree I told her she was having an emotional affair. I can tell my wife is confused. She thinks I am trying to control her. She is scared I am going to be like her ex and control who, what, and when she can do things. That is not the case and has never been the case. I am not worried so much as waiting for it to try to go underground. I don't think my wife is trying to have an affair. I think she fell into one if that means anything to anyone. I am not mad or upset anymore . I am just making sure my wife gets past this without getting even further attached. So Now i plan to check the text messages since my wife is not tech savvy at all. And I am a computer professional she wouldn't have too many places to stay off the grind. She knows the phone thing is out if she wants to go underground. I will know if she starts texting him as well. my wife is unfamiliar with AIM and YAHOO messengers plus she doesn't have any of those apps on her phone. Nor does she skype. I am pretty close to certain things are okay for now. I will let you guys know if thing else happens or the issue is resolved. Thank you guys for taking the time to help me.
I said talk to his wife and tell her everything because I know my wife. She hates confrontation. She knows that telling this woman could cause a big confrontation. So if she does talk to this woman, and indeed tells her everything. Then my wife knows I will talk to her. Which means I will find out if my wife is rugsweeping details to paint a nice picture. I am torn however in that our marriage is only 3 yrs old and we run into this. I know EA's are and "it can happen anytime to anyone" type of situation. I just wasn't expecting this at all. I am really good at reading people. That's why i caught on to this. Now that the cat is out of the bag I will be watching. I don't have a gps device planted though I plan on using icloud so i can track real time. This is next step deal if she breachs my trust again.


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## lovelygirl

WOW!!!

47 minutes conversations every day?
they are just friends?
she didn't think she was doing anything wrong?
She has cheated in the past? 
You think she is naive?

Funny how she was playing you. *You were naive for thinking she was naive. *She has been anything but naive.
Women are not stupid. They know what they're doing when they act like they are being supportive to a guy-"friend". 
It's part of our fake innocence. I'm a woman myself, I know how that works. 

I wonder how this guy thinks that being in a R with his wife means to talk to another female-"friend" for almost an hour every day.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

badbane said:


> I agree I told her she was having an emotional affair. I can tell my wife is confused. She thinks I am trying to control her. She is scared I am going to be like her ex and control who, what, and when she can do things. That is not the case and has never been the case. I am not worried so much as waiting for it to try to go underground. *I don't think my wife is trying to have an affair.* I think she fell into one if that means anything to anyone. I am not mad or upset anymore . I am just making sure my wife gets past this without getting even further attached. So Now i plan to check the text messages since my wife is not tech savvy at all. And I am a computer professional she wouldn't have too many places to stay off the grind. She knows the phone thing is out if she wants to go underground. I will know if she starts texting him as well. my wife is unfamiliar with AIM and YAHOO messengers plus she doesn't have any of those apps on her phone. Nor does she skype. I am pretty close to certain things are okay for now. I will let you guys know if thing else happens or the issue is resolved. Thank you guys for taking the time to help me.


:scratchhead:

Badbane, it's too late. SHE'S ALREADY IN THE THROES OF AN AFFAIR. You need to expose the POSOM to his wife pronto. I get the feeling that you're treating her with kid glove because you don't want to be like her ex. Get over that thinking. You have this woman on such a high pedestal that she could piss on you and you would think it's raining.


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## Shaggy

You need to talk to the mans wife ASAP. Let her know what is going on,

Meanwhile buy "not just friends" for your wife to read,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

> She thinks I am trying to control her


That why you need a third party who put her head straight about boundaires in marriage. You need o stand firm on this and your dealbreakers and she needs counseling like air. Make you case in front of a serious counselor. She will use the ''controling'' line forever otherwise as a mean to control you.


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## Badblood

Dude, you didn't answer my questions. Has she ever met with this guy? Are there times in the day when she is unaccountable to you? As others have already pointed out, she is already having an affair, and you are only "monitoring", her pc and phone? WTF? She may not be computer savy, but she can BUY a cheap (pay for use) phone and you wouldn't know anything about it, and it looks like she would never tell you. You seriously need to wise up, forget how hot she is and ask yourself if you can deal with a serial cheater as a wife.


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## Badblood

BTW, she is lying about her past. Spouse abusers are almost always super jealous, super suspicious and violent. If that is the excuse she is using for her (multiple) affairs, it's a crock.


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## BigLiam

As Badblood and I can tell you, as super good looking guys, women often offer to leave their spouses and children out of the blue, with no encouragement , whatsoever, from us.
Just today, two woman whose daughters play with my kids, made the offer to me while I was dropping their kids off. :scratchhead:

I truly is a blessing and a curse going through life looking this good:FIREdevil::allhail:


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## BigLiam

And, why is it, exactly, that you know about all these "passes" and the offers to leave marriages? She told you, right?

Had a girlfriend like that once. Decent looking woman(almost in my class ), It was pretty obvious this type of thing was disclosed to me tomake me feel insecure and to bolster her.
She was , essentially, nuts, a somatic NPD.


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## Posse

I have the same problem as BigLiam. Robert Redford offered me $1 Million to sleep with him just last night. Handsomeness IS a curse sometimes.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

BigLiam said:


> And, why is it, exactly, that you know about all these "passes" and the offers to leave marriages? She told you, right?


Big Liam, I wondered the same thing. I can't help but think of that Kelli LeBrock commercial where she says: 'Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.'


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## MattMatt

Shaggy said:


> You need to talk to the mans wife ASAP. Let her know what is going on,
> 
> Meanwhile buy "not just friends" for your wife to read,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## MattMatt

badbane said:


> I agree I told her she was having an emotional affair. I can tell my wife is confused. She thinks I am trying to control her.


If your wife can't control herself, then maybe she _should_ let you control her?

Better that, I would think, than her letting a user POSOM control her, instead!


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## badbane

Yes count my wife has told me anytime anyone has hit on her. I know all of her friends at work. They really like me and I know if something was up that one of them would tell me. The men that offered to leave their marriages happened between the time that she separated from her ex and the time we met. My wife told me about her new friend from the get go. She has told me for the most part that they have been talking. I just noticed that a ton of our conversations started to be about him. Which was my first flag. Then the other day when she didn't tell me the whole reason she was late getting home. I have grilled her about it and I know that the guy was working on site at the time and it would have been a logistical impossibility for them to have met. 
The red flags made me just look at the phone records. That is when i figured out that they were talking way too much. I am a numbers guy so I did the math. Her and her female friends talked about 5-8 minutes over a two month span. Her and this guy were at like 30 minutes per day on average. The timing was impeccable always right after I left for work. My wife told me that he would call her while he was driving home to help keep him awake since he had an hour long drive home. Which i know is **** since he has a wife and she has a phone. I am sure she would be happy to talk to him. 
So far there has been no phone contact nor email or text messaging between them. 
One of the guys she cheated on her Ex with still tries to contact her . They have not talked in two years and this guy suddenly calls and proposition her. Which she told me about ten minutes after it happened. You get used to it after awhile. I did laugh one day at Taco bell a guy with his wife decided to stare a little too long. The next thing I know the guys wife smacked him so hard he almost fell out of the chair. This is the first time anything like this has happened and I can assure you of that.

I don't want this to come across as boasting or anything like that. I am just trying to paint a picture.

To answer badblood they have met in person twice. once was a meeting i knew about when they first started talking and they had coffee. I know that the second time they met was at target but was a chance encounter and she had all three kids with her. When I confronted here about any more meeting between them she said she has not met him other then those two times. I wish I could say for 100% she has not met this guy with out me knowing. But i have nothing to indicate that he has been to my house. My wife has not communicated with this OM since two days ago. I checked all email accounts phone history and text messages. Part of me wants to see if she be stupid enough to screw up. That way I can bury this suspicion now. My wife hasn't sent any pictures to this guy or anything. Nor did they have any prolonged text conversations. They were just talking on the phone. Trust me if I saw large amounts of texts and multimedia messages going back and forth. then yes I know something else was going on.


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## keko

badbane said:


> They have not talked in two years and this guy suddenly calls and proposition her. Which she told me about ten minutes after it happened.


Wanna take a guess why it happened?

Everyone but you knows what you're wife is really doing. :sleeping:


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## badbane

to respond to keko the guy was a known factor. He has called my wife 3 times in the last 4 years. 2 times when we started dating. Then this last time. I don't want to get into a back an forth about my wife. and what has happened. The guy called before all this happened. It is a nonissue. I just found out about this situation that happened and came here for support and to ask people who have been through something like this what to suspect. I am not angry and don't take this a me lashing out but, honestly this is the first time we have run into a situation like this.


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## Will_Kane

It strikes me as very odd that other man has not tried to get in touch with your wife for the past two days.

Did she tell him not to contact her anymore, or did he just coincidentally stop calling her on his long drive home at the exact same time you asked your wife not to contact him?


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## BigLiam

First off, married men do not just offer to leave their wives and kids unless they are being encouraged, got it? It does not matter when these alleged offers occurred. It only matters that they came from married guys and that does not just happen unless your wife was encouraging it.
And, she serially cheated before, right. I know she claims it was because her h was abusive, but, as others have already pointed out, that makes no sense.
Now, she talks to a guy on the phone , on average, 30 minutes a day. 
I think your wife is cheating, as she has done in the past.


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## badbane

Update last night my wife and I had a dispute. I'd had it with her blase attitude about the incident. We went to bed but eventually was too mad to be in the bed with her. So we did not sleep together. This moring she came and found me and told me she would not contact OM anymore. She said it isn't worth it and that she was sorry. She said she would never do anything to hurt me. 
I will continue to monitor the situation. 
However the married man incident happened between the time that she separated from her EX and we met. My wife has always had male friends. What my wife doesn't get is that someone that looks like her doesn't have male friends. She has a long line of men that want in her pants. She has guy friends and up til this point maintains a very professional relationship with most men. 
This guy was calling my wife it wasn't the other way around. My wife only called the OM probably once or twice a week. He was calling her two to three times a day. Don't get me wrong she still answered the dang phone. I am not rugsweeping this, nor am I sugarcoating things. I think that this man got too attached to my wife and things got out of hand. My wife is still guilty for her part in all this but my wife has never intentionally tried to breakup a marriage nor has she encouraged men the leave their marriage. 
So for now barring any secret contact the matter is somewhat dissipating.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Baldane, you need to contact the OM's wife and let her know what's been going on. If the OM was calling two to three times a day this means that he's seriously infatuated with your wife. He'll find a way to contact her. And you're right -- she answered the phone and talked to him every time he called. She's far from innocent. I don't envy you having such a desirable wife. It's akin to walking around with a hundred dollar bill hanging out of your back pocket for all the world to see. Sooner or later someone's going to try to take it from you. Good luck.


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## lordmayhem

You still haven't mentioned who this OM and how he met your WW. Is he a coworker? An acquaintance? An old boyfriend? Someone she met while at a bar? Because if he's a coworker, then she can never go NC with him. Either he will continue to pursue her or vice versa. Anything happening in the workplace would mean she would have to leave that job.


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## BigLiam

I thought you wrote that married men, plural, offered to abandon their families for your wife. Was it only one?


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## BigLiam

Have you inquired of your wife re exactly how these offers to leave marriages came about and have you verified the truth of this?
Have you corroborated her story, through firnds and family, that she was impregnated while passed out? Same with the allegations of abuse.
Can you verify the allegations that doctors etc have been making passes at her? If they have dones so at work, has HR been notified?
Were ther multiple offers to leave marriages ? Were children involved? How is it your wife became close with married men with the type of character that would cause them to make suchoffers?
Did she or does she have any continued contact with these men?
Has the XH ever been arrested or demonstrated violent tendencies that you have observed, yourself? What is his occupation? Were ther any witnesses to his abuse?
How did he react to your wife's serial cheating , if he was aware of it?
Who did your wife cheat with? Were they married and , if so, were their spouses advised?
Lots of red flags in your W's story.


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## badbane

When my wife and I first started dating her ex husband showed up to drop off his child support, and then tried to fight me. I know the type of abuse because of the way the kids acted. The first time I ever went to her house. Her oldest son went to the bottom of the stairs and screamed "Get down here and make me some food NOW!!" And the grandparents and sister in law said nothing to stop this behavior. 
Lets just say ,if I could get away with it, I think I would be okay making one person on this planet disappear. My wife still has the occasional night terror. She stopped telling me what he did to her and went to see a therapist. I could not take the stories any more they upset me too much. My wife went through hell and she choose not the be a victim. 
Her ex, aside from being violent, was also addicted to video games. He totally neglected her. Raped her at night if she refused sex. Trust me if they didn't have kids they would never speak to each other. This went on for well over 7 years of an 11 year marriage. 

The two men that I know of are the parent that found out she was divorced and tried to start an affair with her. Said he would leave his family. There was another guy that was not married but strung my wife along until he eventually married someone else. Once my wife was divorced and was out of the marriage she had no relationships with any man until she met me. This is verified. 

After she met me and we started dating and getting serious there were no affairs. She didn't have many friends. She only really had me. I supported her in her recovery from all the stuff she went through. 
My wife had guy friends in high school. My wife still doesn't like most women b/c she thinks they are over emotional b%$#hes. 
She sings in a band and I go to all her shows. Up until this point my wife has been a very good wife. Great sex life, good on the communication, never had an issue with loyalty. 
This is the first time anything like this has happened. 

update :My wife just called me and the OM wife just told him to quit talking to my wife so much. I told my wife that i still am not okay with any contact until I talk to his wife. My wife has called me and is making sure that I am informed of any time this guy calls her.
I will say from what the OM said that I still don't trust him worth a darn. Saying "I feel bad that it went too far.... but i hope your husband and you will see that is was just a pure friend ship." 
Please the guy calls my wife three times a day and it's a pure friendship. I know my wife was wrong to pick up the phone. The one thing that does seem stick out to me is that my wife barely called him. In a two month period she only called him 6 times. He on the other hand called nearly 50 times. I think I would be more infuriated had she been initiating all this.
I want you guys to understand my wife's story has been verified by many other people. Yes there are lots of red flags. I remember the first night I went to her house (she was living with her parents. Don't get me started on them. Just one word comes to mind. ENABLERS) My wife and I got in an argument. My wife bowed up like she was ready to get physically violent. The oldest stepson was there he bolted up under the bed. I took charge of the situation made my wife go out of the room. Got my stepson out from under the bed and made sure he was okay. About that time my sister in law busts in upset asking about what is going on. She then tried to take my stepson out of the room. I said no I am trying to talk to her. She storms out and runs and gets my wife's mother up and drags her up there. It was like watching a real life scripted play that had been played out so many times that everyone just played their part and no one really stopped to say. "where's the logic."
My wife when we had our first fight where we were yelling at each other bolted out the back door. It scared the hell out of me. I thought she was just running off. When i caught up to her I put my arms on her waist. I was just trying to turn her around so we could talk and she just went limp. Like a child running from a spanking or something. She flung her self around. The more I tried to just keep her from hurting her self the crazier it got. That night I almost ran for the hills. When i finally got her to sit down she just got in a fetal position and cried.

She has always told me when guys hit on her, ask her if she is married, and has always been loyal to me. I am glad that it seems that I can be setting this aside for now. I will continue to monitor the situation but, at this point I think It best that my wife and I talk. I am calling her on my break time , and at work, making sure I am listening to her and communicating with her. We have been talking a lot more than usual and I think that is a good sign that she is beginning to get out of the fog of false friendship.


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## Shaggy

Do not back down on the full NC. She offered it. Stick with it. Ths guy is clearly pushing and pursuing her. No guy calls tat many times a day. I don't even talk to my wife on the phone that many times a day.

NC is the only option here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badbane

Oh how they met. Well that brings up a story about another guy friend. lets just call him S. Well S is a moron that my wife knew. along time back. The guy I talked about above that strung her along. Well turns out S married a serial cheater who cheated on him with at least 8 men. Wifey at the time is married and this guy tells my wife he will leave his fiance and be with her. STrung her along. S walked up to my wife in his wedding tux and told her to give him a reason. Anyway S married serial cheater. Most of the men that my wife messed with were men who were obviously taking advantage of the fragile state of mind my wife was in. 
Anyway flash forward five or six years til today. S send my wife a FB message and they talk. My wife doesn't like talking to guy and admits to doing the horizontal mambo with S. I tell her she is okay to talk to him. Whille talking to S my wife is introduced to OM. Who scores point since my wife is trying to help S get over his WW. Anyway wifey realizes after awhile that S is a moron and relooks at her past with S realizes he is really just the less formal word for a donkey. So OM and wifey start talking trying to work out how to help S. Wifey realizes that S is just trying to get into her pants. S gets jealous that OM and wife are friends. (at this time they were only contacting about once every other week.) 
The whole drama comes to a conclusion with S when S admits that he thought at some point they would get back together. Wife breaks all ties and I knew about the whole situation. Anyway at this point OM and wife and talking a respectable amount of time. Once a week or so and about two weeks after this. Is when OM starts blowing up my wife's phone. I notice wife starts talking about OM a lot and get to the point to where it was annoying. Should have said something but, up to this point everything seemed stand up. 
My wife burned S the scorned bitter exlover in a way that made me smile and be glad i never have screwed over my wife. 
Looking back I started getting suspicious when i noticed him calling her at work and my wife talking about him more than the fiasco that comes with her job. Red flag two came when wifey told me OM had an affair 12 years ago. I thought it was strange he would bring that up. Now to me it seems like we was fishing. 
Again throughout this time my wife is not the one initiating the conversations. 
My wife tells me that she made sure he understood that we were happily married and that we enjoyed a good sex life.

The NC is a non negtiable thing. The guy told my wife he wants to learn how to be friends. yea right I learned that when i was 2 when i didn't try to weisel my way around behind their backs.


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## badbane

On a side note a sledge hammer and a bunch of concrete that needs to be broken up are very therapeutic. I found that is I came home and beat on concrete for about 30 minutes I wouldn't have any aggression left over and it helped me think clearly. Idk thought I would through it out there for anyone interested.


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## Shaggy

OM needs to go even more. Clearly he's got the major hots for her, knows that she once ran with looses like S and is hoping he can score.

Only a fool lets the fox visit the hen house night after night waiting for the door to be left open. The smart farmer gets rid of the fiox.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Baldane, you certainly have taken on a project (i.e. your wife.) One of the most important things that I took away from reading 'No More Mr. Nice Guy' is to avoid getting involved with broken women.


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## Shaggy

Btw when the guy heard you were happily married and had a good sex life. He brain only processed, "I like sex, I'm good at it" from your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badbane

yea I get what you are both saying. I have his cell # worst case scenario I spend about 20 bucks to look up the home address on the cell phone and take and unexpected day off work and see if his wife is home. If this guy thinks I won't do anything he is seriously wrong. The good thing is that the is working on a major job that is going to occupy his time. I will be monitoring things still. My wife I think still doesn't get the No Contact part. I just threw in the until I talk to your wife just because I knew she wouldn't dream of letting that happen. 
So if he contacts her again even via text. All gloves are off. I will find her FB page.


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## Shaggy

The bit about talking to his wife may help if they do talk again. If NC is broken, then just call the OMW. No warning to anyone, just talk to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evelyn11

Hey, I didn't take the time to read the other posts, so I hope I'm not being repetitive, however: I am the type of woman who gets along better with men, than women. I also know, that this HAS gotten me in sticky situations with the 'special' men in my life. Once you begin confiding in another man about your personal life, the chances of romantic feelings developing shoot WAY up. It's because a bond is formed. No matter how much she loves you, and is devoted to you, it's inappropriate to be speaking to a man that frequently. Accidents happen. The longer this goes on, more and more barriers collapse and....well..

Anyhow, it isn't a done deal, just from speaking on the phone, but I don't know of ANYONE who has that much to say to anyone. Unless she's just a real talker. It is probably totally innocent, but that's always where it begins. I would ask her to cut it off. I am curious as to why she feels the need to speak to him so often. :-/


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## Chaparral

Here is an example of what to watch for, this is one where the two people invloved new one another from before. The principles are the same for new aquaintances: 

Originally Posted by F-102 
It may have gone something like this:

They first start catching up, and it's all "How you been doing? What have you been up to?"

Then it would have morphed into talk about:

What they've been doing since they parted
Their significant others since they parted
Their families
Their favorite music, movies, etc.
Their spouses
You
Your job
How your job keeps you away
How lonely she gets when you're away
How she looks forward to their conversations all the time now
How she loves talking to him
How she gets "bored" talking to you
How you don't always listen
How you're not "perfect"
How you can be so insensitive sometimes
How she wonders if she would have stayed with him
How he understands her
How he knows how to make her feel good
How you fail at this
How you are such an a**hole
How she feels young again
How she hasn't felt this happy with you in so long
How he's a better man than you'll ever be
How she wants to see him again
How they can meet under the radar
How she's thought of leaving you
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How he's her soul mate
How she made a big mistake leaving him
How she made an even bigger mistake marrying you
How they were meant to be together...

...get the picture? 

She secretly contacted him behind your back - RED FLAG 
She created a secret facebook account to facilitate contact with him behind your back - RED FLAG 
She told him to wait till things settle down and contact her on the secret facebook account - RED FLAG 
She would NOT have stopped contact with him if you hadn't found out about it 
She's playing the privacy card. What she wants is secrecy. There is no secrey in marriage. Privacy is when you go to the bathroom 

And no, it does NOT make anything better just because he's far away. And EA is an EA is an EA. My fWWs EA was online too, and OM is in Canada. Yet I found out in the later stages how she was searching on how to immigrate there and make her escape.


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## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> And no, it does NOT make anything better just because he's far away. And EA is an EA is an EA. My fWWs EA was online too, and OM is in Canada. Yet I found out in the later stages how she was searching on how to immigrate there and make her escape.


There was another forum member on here who was not sure why her H wasn't working harder on the marriage, even though the OW had moved 400 miles away. Turns out they were calling and texting just as much as ever, she just never verified NC all that time.

My FWH's affair was largely texts, emails, and calls. They hardly ever saw each other. lordmayhem's wife was also in a long distance affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badbane

well it has been two days since the nc agreement. She has not communicated with OM. OM did send text that was supposed to go to someone else. To me right now it seems more like a plausibly deniable way to see if my wife will still talk to him. Anyway I am going to look back through the text message logs and see if she sent him any multimedia messages. We are going to have a hell of a lot more to discuss if she sent him any pics other than the joke stuff she normally sends.


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## calif_hope

Your wife received a text from OM that was ment for someone else..........I call Bu*# Sh#t on that one - it was at minimum a 'fishing' or a 'remember me I'm still here poke' - at worse, a prearranged message.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badbane

I agree with you after all A isn't anywhere near R in a contact list. But my wife didn't respond at all i know this via text and phone records. I need to make sure the the image sizes on the mms text she sent to him are not large enough to send a picture of herself. She has been sending me pics of her trying on clothes. I have to know if she sent him a picture like that. \
Only problem with the mms messages it just says phone instead of a number. i am going to try and match the sizes of the images and time stamps from both messages. I know if she sent two images with identical file sizes twice then I will know that she sent an image file to someone else. I am don't think this happened. So far they didn't do a lot of texting and the MMS messages are the only thing left uncertain.


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## badbane

Update things were going well until yesterday. I didn't realize i could go back farther in the phone history and found more stuff. 
Last year my wife talk to MB on facebook and flirted with him suggestively. it got to he point where he sent her a naked pic. my wife says she let him have it and stopped talking to him. She had deleted the text conversation but not the facebook conversation. 

I mentioned the whole thing with guy T who she had the emotional affair with. So yesterday I went sniffing and found where for half of a month before she started up with T. MB got a hold of her and sent her a text about his dad dieing. that's great however the rule was not contact with this guy ever again. She broke that. Not only that but they texted constantly for days afterward. Needless to say I was furious I realized that obviously I had not dealt with the situation like I should have. I confronted my wife and lit into her with the frustration and anger I'd been bottling up. My wife was extremely remorseful and apologetic. She said she would do anything to fix this. which gave me hope. We had sex this morning. She did all the work. I just laid there. So i am thinking great my wife is going to put in the work. So i get to work this morning and tried to login to at&t so I tried to recover the password to the account. well it has been locked. So i pretend to be her since her name is on the account. I follow through and then find out that the account was locked on request. So here is where I am at. my wife is asleep right now. I sent her a text saying that she has until 6pm to unlock the AT&t account. If she doesn't unlock the account I am not coming home. I sent her a list of things I needed her to do to show me she was serious about fixing our marriage. 
That was this morning. I am so mad right now I can't even think about working. I never though this would be coming up again. I am worried that something really big has happened because my wife mentioned she would have another child with me. My fear is that something recently or in the past has happened and I just don't know about it yet. 
At this point I have started the 180. I have just turned off my emotions for now. I am pretty much numb. But the betrayal is there and it is burning a hole in my resolve like thermite. Any advice or support would be appreciated.


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## Chaparral

All for the want of a keylogger, etc. You have been here to long to have gotten this far in.


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## badbane

chapparal said:


> All for the want of a keylogger, etc. You have been here to long to have gotten this far in.


she doesn't have a computer. She only uses her smart phone. trust me i would use a keylogger if it would have been effective. My wife only used internet for facebook. people magazine and to apparently hit on men. DAmn i wish she still had her galaxy s. i'd be ten times easier to put spyware on. She will know if I jailbreak the phone too. I am so mad.
I have this nagging feeling still that i am missing something. That something is still out there. I can't tell if it is my head or my anger doing this now.


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## TDSC60

Locking the phone account???

If she had nothing to hide, why would she do that? It also seems so obvious with what has been happening.

Hopefully it is just a phone company snafu. If not, you are in more trouble than you thought.

If it was intentional on her part, then you have been played big time and she is ready to begin her move out of the marriage.


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## badbane

TDSC60 said:


> Locking the phone account???
> 
> If she had nothing to hide, why would she do that? It also seems so obvious with what has been happening.
> 
> Hopefully it is just a phone company snafu. If not, you are in more trouble than you thought.
> 
> If it was intentional on her part, then you have been played big time and she is ready to begin her move out of the marriage.


I think it is the opposite I think she is trying to get pregnant. This sucks I don't have the damn money to buy what I need to put on her effin phone. she hasn't synced her phone in months.


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## Chaparral

What would locking her phone, not being transparent have to do with her gettng pregnant unless she wants another man to get her pregnant. and yes we have heard that here.


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## sandc

It's pretty late to start taking this seriously now. Everyone was trying to get you to take it seriously months ago. This is why.

Have you put a VAR where she uses her phone? In her car or somewhere in the house? Then you could at least hear who she's talking to and what they are talking about. If you do, be prepared to be very pissed off. More than now.


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## badbane

sandc said:


> It's pretty late to start taking this seriously now. Everyone was trying to get you to take it seriously months ago. This is why.
> 
> Have you put a VAR where she uses her phone? In her car or somewhere in the house? Then you could at least hear who she's talking to and what they are talking about. If you do, be prepared to be very pissed off. More than now.


I think a VAR is my best option. I saw one the other day on the cheap.I know exactly where to put it. The reason why is because she trying to get to me to go inside her. I almost did this morning I had to push her off of me.


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## sandc

badbane said:


> I think a VAR is my best option. I saw one the other day on the cheap.I know exactly where to put it. The reason why is because she trying to get to me to go inside her. I almost did this morning I had to push her off of me.


Maybe.... I don't know. Maybe you should make up a reason to not have sex for a while. If she's really pushing you to get her pregnant right now.... I'd almost be suspicious she might already think she is and is trying to cover by making you think she got pregnant by you. Crap, I hope that's just my paranoia.

Anyway sorry for the dig about you waiting so long. Looks like you're on track now. Hopefully the VAR turns up something solid.


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## badbane

I hope it doesn't I hope it finds nothing but sweet things about me. Cause if not I wasted six years of my life with this woman. I hope I find nothing from now till the day I die. I went through hell and back to get my family and friends to believe in our marriage. I mean I was there for her through some serious stuff. I took on two step children and raised them to the age they are now. Right now I am focused on school. I am focused on getting myself where I need to be.


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## NaturalHeart

Some grown folks either dont understand (the bell doesnt go off in the brain) when they cross the line or they have to be told this/that type behavior is crossing the line. 

From what I've read so far, it seems as if having male friends is ok in her mind but what reason those male friends are involved in her life is nothing a husband wants to have to deal with or put up with. 

Make sure she is telling you about her behavior and her conversations *with these men* that are trying to hit on her and leave family for her. Being seperated from an ex husband but with a married man are obvious of crossing the lines behavior. 

Make sure you dont get accused of being "controlling" as her way of being able to continue to "freely be friends with men that are seriously attracted to her" ... Make sure she isnt telling you all about their attraction to her but not telling you how she is listening, or feeling her own attraction to THEM


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## Chaparral

shaylady said:


> Some grown folks either dont understand (the bell doesnt go off in the brain) when they cross the line or they have to be told this/that type behavior is crossing the line.
> 
> From what I've read so far, it seems as if having male friends is ok in her mind but what reason those male friends are involved in her life is nothing a husband wants to have to deal with or put up with.
> 
> Make sure she is telling you about her behavior and her conversations *with these men* that are trying to hit on her and leave family for her. Being seperated from an ex husband but with a married man are obvious of crossing the lines behavior.
> 
> Make sure you dont get accused of being "controlling" as her way of being able to continue to "freely be friends with men that are seriously attracted to her" ... Make sure she isnt telling you all about their attraction to her but not telling you how she is listening, or feeling her own attraction to THEM


If she brings up controlling be sure to remind her that the only one you control is you. That you control your own boundaries, who you associate or who you live with and what kind of people you do not, like people with no morals, cheaters , people with no boundaries, liars, drunks, dopers, thieves, murderers etc.


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## sandc

chapparal said:


> If she brings up controlling be sure to remind her that the only one you control is you. That you control your own boundaries, who you associate or who you live with and what kind of people you do not, like people with no morals, cheaters , people with no boundaries, liars, drunks, dopers, thieves, murderers etc.



Exactly. Inform her that you are not controlling her, you are asking her to control herself.


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## badbane

shaylady said:


> Some grown folks either dont understand (the bell doesnt go off in the brain) when they cross the line or they have to be told this/that type behavior is crossing the line.
> 
> From what I've read so far, it seems as if having male friends is ok in her mind but what reason those male friends are involved in her life is nothing a husband wants to have to deal with or put up with.
> 
> Make sure she is telling you about her behavior and her conversations *with these men* that are trying to hit on her and leave family for her. Being seperated from an ex husband but with a married man are obvious of crossing the lines behavior.
> 
> Make sure you dont get accused of being "controlling" as her way of being able to continue to "freely be friends with men that are seriously attracted to her" ... Make sure she isnt telling you all about their attraction to her but not telling you how she is listening, or feeling her own attraction to THEM


She has male friends still I have a good friend that is friends with me as much as her. They don't talk very often but I am okay with them. However these men were people who she hasn't seen for years. Then all of a sudden she is talking to his guy. I didn't know they spoke until I peaked on facebook two days after he sent her a naked picture of himself. My wife tried to play it off because she was attracted to him in high school. AFter I found this out they didn't speak then suddenly I look back and they are texting like crazy for fifteen days. 

That is a total betrayal of my trust. I don't care if she didn't shag him. covering this all up she effin told me it was some other guy. At the time she was treating me like crap too. I mean irritable overbearing. she complained over every small thing. I am an easy going guy so I figured she had been honest with me so far. I am not sleeping at home until my wife unlocks the phone records.


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## Chaparral

Olympus DP-201 Voice Recorder, Silver: iPods & MP3 Players : Walmart.com

Olympus WS-801 Voice Recorder, Silver: iPods & MP3 Players : Walmart.com

Can't speak for any of these but one poster got an olympsu model for $99and it worked great. The problem is background noise. If you put it in a car use heavy duty velcro under the drivers seat. some posters are using a program to filter background noise. Usually the radio will be turned down to hear. Cheaters love to talk in the car as soon as they are away from their spouse.


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## Chaparral

badbane said:


> She has male friends still I have a good friend that is friends with me as much as her. They don't talk very often but I am okay with them. However these men were people who she hasn't seen for years. Then all of a sudden she is talking to his guy. I didn't know they spoke until I peaked on facebook two days after he sent her a naked picture of himself. My wife tried to play it off because she was attracted to him in high school. AFter I found this out they didn't speak then suddenly I look back and they are texting like crazy for fifteen days.
> 
> That is a total betrayal of my trust. I don't care if she didn't shag him. covering this all up she effin told me it was some other guy. At the time she was treating me like crap too. I mean irritable overbearing. she complained over every small thing. I am an easy going guy so I figured she had been honest with me so far. I am not sleeping at home until my wife unlocks the phone records.


And did you tell the OM the next time he sent a picture of his **** you would show him the other end of it?


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## badbane

chapparal said:


> And did you tell the OM the next time he sent a picture of his **** you would show him the other end of it?


What's the point. Guys like OM could give a F$#@ what the LS thinks. Until the WW speaks up and ends it. It means nothing. he is also divorced because he cheated.


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## badbane

This is the list i have made so far.

1) no contact with any of the inidivuals that she crossed the line with.

2) She will get into Counciling to determine why she is unable to stand with in the boundaries of marriage, relsove issues stemming from the abuse in her first marriage, her terrible self image, and her OCD. I have the right to change the councilor if I determine the councilor is toxic.

3)is a financial arrangement 

4) any new friends she has that are male need to be friend with me. and she need to be friends with the wife. However there is to be no alone time between her and any other men.

I am straining my head here. anything else I should add. on here.


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## Chaparral

badbane said:


> What's the point. Guys like OM could give a F$#@ what the LS thinks. Until the WW speaks up and ends it. It means nothing. he is also divorced because he cheated.


What's the point? The point is to make him think you are unstable or vicious or both.

When you are fighting for your families life, leave no stone unturned.

Are you afraid of him?

Have you read MMSL?


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## Chaparral

By the way, he doesn't care what you think. He needs to worry about what you are capable of doing.


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## Chaparral

badbane said:


> This is the list i have made so far.
> 
> 1) no contact with any of the inidivuals that she crossed the line with.
> 
> 2) She will get into Counciling to determine why she is unable to stand with in the boundaries of marriage, relsove issues stemming from the abuse in her first marriage, her terrible self image, and her OCD. I have the right to change the councilor if I determine the councilor is toxic.
> 
> 3)is a financial arrangement
> 
> 4) any new friends she has that are male need to be friend with me. and she need to be friends with the wife. However there is to be no alone time between her and any other men.
> 
> I am straining my head here. anything else I should add. on here.


Totally transparent, phones,texts, all emails, where she is at at all times, no GNO's, etc..................and that works both ways.

You do not however give up where you are getting help or your sources of info.


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## badbane

chapparal said:


> Totally transparent, phones,texts, all emails, where she is at at all times, no GNO's, etc..................and that works both ways.
> 
> You do not however give up where you are getting help or your sources of info.


Part of me wishes to just unleash hell. i know her phone passwords and all of her email passwords. facebook. I have everything. I just wasn't effin looking because I thought i could trust her. Now i don't know anything. I in a simmering rage right now. I can work and function but just below the surface is white hot fire. I have got to get to the gym and use it there. Or I know I am going to start falling back on old habits I just got over.


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## Chaparral

badbane said:


> she doesn't have a computer. She only uses her smart phone. trust me i would use a keylogger if it would have been effective. My wife only used internet for facebook. people magazine and to apparently hit on men. DAmn i wish she still had her galaxy s. i'd be ten times easier to put spyware on. She will know if I jailbreak the phone too. I am so mad.
> I have this nagging feeling still that i am missing something. That something is still out there. I can't tell if it is my head or my anger doing this now.


If its an I phone, you can get the deleted messages. Have you tried?


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## badbane

Well update to the update it turns out our at&T account was flagged as compromised and they locked the account to prevent CC theft. Right now we are in limbo with the bank and we find out if we have to change account numbers. This has been verified by myself so it is good to know that my wife has not tried to cover anything up. 
Right now I am still mad that she got me to the point that I have to second guess everything. I have grilled her all day about why the hell she felt the need to flirt with MB and made sure she knew what the hell No Contact ever means. Mon night the AT&T records are going to be printed and I am going to go through them compared to her phone book and text message history. I am going to give them alias's in her records so I know exactly how long they communicated. 
Monday I am going to give her a deadline to find a councilor to meet with her. I know I can't afford a MC now as well as a IC but I'd rather my wife go and figure out WTF she did what she did. 

My wife is admitting what she did was wrong and deleted the offending contacts from her phone. I have always had full transparency whether my wife knew it or not. The phone records go back 16 months so am going back as far as possible. My wife understands that any messaged she receives from the offending OM is to be shown to me before deletion from now until one of us dies. She also understands that if she deletes messages from om before showing them to me that I will consider it an attempt to hide and engage back into an inappropriate relationship.


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## OldWolf57

you know why she is trying to get knocked up, in case you find out she has broken NC

Do you STILL think your wife don't understand guys want to get into her pants BB ?? The dip sent a pic of his junk. NOW tell me she don't realize what they want.

We tried to tell you she may have gotten addicted to affairs, but you would not listen.
Well hopefully you will find out she has not been physical with this dip.
I would hate to think thats why she is trying to get you to go inside, being afraid she may be preg from him.

Good Luck this time BB.


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## OldWolf57

Oh, if its an iphone, it should sync when she charge it.


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## NaturalHeart

badbane said:


> She has male friends still I have a good friend that is friends with me as much as her. They don't talk very often but I am okay with them. However these men were people who she hasn't seen for years. Then all of a sudden she is talking to his guy. I didn't know they spoke until I peaked on facebook two days after he sent her a naked picture of himself. My wife tried to play it off because she was attracted to him in high school. AFter I found this out they didn't speak then suddenly I look back and they are texting like crazy for fifteen days.
> 
> That is a total betrayal of my trust. I don't care if she didn't shag him. covering this all up she effin told me it was some other guy. At the time she was treating me like crap too. I mean irritable overbearing. she complained over every small thing. I am an easy going guy so I figured she had been honest with me so far. I am not sleeping at home until my wife unlocks the phone records.





badbane said:


> What's the point. Guys like OM could give a F$#@ what the LS thinks. Until the WW speaks up and ends it. It means nothing. he is also divorced because he cheated.


 
*If guys like OM dont give a* ____ and you see that she kept contact with him after he sent a naked pic and then the texting increased after you found it.... *what does that say about her? *I just think you need to prepare yourself for no ones behavior but hers because she clearly communicates with men behind your back. 

She may tell you what they say to her but she is not telling you about her dirt. She is throwing the rock and hiding her hand by making you feel like she is open and honest with you which builds your trust-but she is being slick about her behavior.


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## NaturalHeart

badbane said:


> This is the list i have made so far.
> 
> 1) no contact with any of the inidivuals that she crossed the line with.
> 
> 2) She will get into Counciling to determine why she is unable to stand with in the boundaries of marriage, *relsove issues stemming from the abuse in her first marriage, her* terrible self image, and her OCD. I have the right to change the councilor if I determine the councilor is toxic.
> 
> 3)is a financial arrangement
> 
> 4) any new friends she has that are male need to be friend with me. and she need to be friends with the wife. However there is to be no alone time between her and any other men.
> 
> I am straining my head here. anything else I should add. on here.


 
I guess you should look at how she got in that type of relationship. Did she grow up with the father in her home? Does she have any abandonment issues? Some of those things may have something to do with her undercover cheating. 

Another question: you talked about how beautiful she is, do you feel like she wants you to constantly compliment her or do you feel like she is never satisfied from you telling her how beautiful she is?


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## The bishop

Dude, your wife is a serial cheater, I am one, from your description of your wife's actions, I have no doubt. It is probably a lot worse then you think. Her telling you about guy hitting on her and mentioning the pervious OM to you are just ways to trick you into thinking she tells you everything, I used that trick myself. 

She will dot his again to you.... Maybe not today, or tomorrow, maybe three years from now... Who knows... But she will.

There is a lot more I noticed when I read your thread.... About your wife, the OM, there was more to that then you think... He practally admitted it when he said he wants to learn to be friends with her after the confrontation.... They admitted without admitting that they were more then friends; you didn't notice that? They were having an A.


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## badbane

I hear all of you and I am making sure to go over everything I have at my disposal. I have access to all of her emails FB and phone. I just wasn't looking. It is weird I had all of everything I needed at my fingertips. Had I looked in on her email account at the right time I would know exactly what I Need to know. The things that are bothering me now are. I am really straining my brain now. My wife has daddy issues. I know that. What I need to determine is what the hell to do now. She is saying and doing the right things. The list I gave her included a councilor to determine what childhood or whatever is causing her to cheat on me. Trust me I am listening now. Just keep on keeping me honest. I promise I am not trying to rug sweep this in anyway. if I appear to be trust me it is only in my subconcious. The angriest I am still trying to get over being mad at myself. I didn't see the signs. If only I had TAM sooner. I have always been good a pick other people apart. However I am terrible about judging myself. I do appreciate the comments. 

Right now my wife is asleep when I get home I am sending the boys to their room and we are going to sit down.


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## badbane

shaylady said:


> I guess you should look at how she got in that type of relationship. Did she grow up with the father in her home? Does she have any abandonment issues? Some of those things may have something to do with her undercover cheating.
> 
> Another question: you talked about how beautiful she is, do you feel like she wants you to constantly compliment her or do you feel like she is never satisfied from you telling her how beautiful she is?


We talked about that a long time ago. Her dad was working 90 hours a week to provide a good living. My wife was wild in high school. The best way i can describe the reason she got with her first H was because A) she was trying to get someone to notice her. I mean he was 19 and dropped out. He was a bad boy and she was attracted to that. b) She married him due to intense social pressure in living in a small town. 

My wife is going to have to go a long way back to figure out what is wrong with her. IMO I would not be surprised if she was molested as a child. Today is going to be a bad day for me.


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## OldWolf57

So your NAIVE ww was WILD in high school, is a serial cheater, a lier, and is remorseful.
Why do I get the feeling you make very good money ???


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## Chaparral

How are things going badbane?


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## AlphaHalf

YOU were the Naive one all along. Her pretty face that attracts so much attention is the same face that makes you put up with all her Bu!!S&@t.

I truly hope everything works out for the best and that you'll get through this. huh......women.


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## WalkingInLight

It seems like things have developed rather rapidly since your very first post and, regrettably, not for the better. I'm very sorry for the situation you find yourself in.

I'd like to believe that this situation will not get worse than it already is. I'm concerned, however, that someone who cheated previously (no matter the reason) has not yet learned to set boundaries with men.

No one seems to have suggested the book, "Not just friends" so I thought I might mention it to you. Perhaps it might help you and your wife?

Can I suggest that if your wife having friendships with males is an issue for you (and frankly speaking, I think it should be for every man) that you should just sit her down and let her know that. No threats, no badgering or any other matter, just sit her down and tell her how you feel about this.

You may also find the “married mans sex primer” helpful. It does a lot to dig deeper into how men and women interact with each other. There are those who say it has been helpful and others that find it rubbish. Given your situation, perhaps you might consider reading some excerpts and seeing if it might help improve things in regards to affair proofing your marriage?

Sadly – you’re not alone. The good news is that you are not the first person to go through this and that there is always hope.

You may also want to take a break from TAM for the next few days and just work on you - exercise and try and calm your emotions down. Coming on here daily and having others tell you she is definitely cheating on you physically is enough to drive even the sanest person to total full-blown paranoia.

It might turn out that it went physical but right now you don’t know that for a fact and there is nothing you can do about it anyway. Take a break and “let your emotions subside before you decide.” We are never at our best as people when we are running on low sleep and hyped up emotions.

Use the VAR and other means to check up on her past and current behavior and get facts before you make decisions. Don't allow others on here who, unfortunately, did have cheating wives unduely influence you by projecting their own experience onto your situation.

My view is not a popular one I'll admit - but I hope it helps you and can bring some measure of comfort. And I hope that this does work out for the best for you both.


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## badbane

I wish I made a lot of money lol right now things are in limbo. So far there is no contact with any of the other men. I'll be back into the phone records soon. Wife is still remorseful. I was hopeful but she has yet to attempt to get a hold of a counselor. I met her when I was 19 so yes I was naive. What 19 year old isn't. I went through hell to keep this woman. I stayed through all the crazy **** that her exhusband left behind. I have given her my best years. Right now I just have to focus on me. emotionally I am starting to fall back to my eating addiction again. I determined real quick it was a stupid way to try and get back to her since my health prognosis wasn't so great. I am okay now but if I don't change in the next year or so I might as well be diabetic. 
I wish I could go back and have made better decisions with my wife. especially financial ones. WE aren't broke we are just getting by. Right now it seems like the remorse has tapered off. We are both very busy. The ATT lockout was real and had she not locked the account we'd be paying for someone's 300 amazon purchase. I verified this. The biggest problem here is that I just don't really want to talk to her. I have made a list of things i want her to do. and deadlines. The consequence I having my check go into my own account and she only gets what she needs to pay our bills while I save for an attourney.


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