# I don't know what to do any more



## ConnectedTox (Nov 23, 2020)

Sometimes it feels like I have no more rabbits in my hat. 

My wife and I have been married 20 years. 2 kids both teens. The first 3-4 years of marriage were pretty good. We were childless and in the military. Sex was always an issue. When we were dating she couldn't keep her hands off me. The moment we got married she demanded a schedule. Which I agreed to, I mean we did have demanding duty schedules, so it made sense.

Flash forward to when we got out of the military. We'd been out a year and were about to have our first daughter. I remember vividly her looking at me one morning as I got ready for work and she said "I don't trust you." Up until then I had done nothing to be given mistrust. She wouldn't talk to me the rest of the day. To this day I never understood but it was a measure of things to come.

Years went on and her distrust got worse. We'd discuss home improvement projects and the first thing she would do is call her family to get advice. Then follow theirs instead of mine, OR attribute the best idea to them if we both had the same conclusion. 

Now I don't care and I used to (and kind of still do) say things to just make it go away. Whatever she wants to hear I would say it. The beatings had to stop. She's pretty good at taking zero responsibility on things. Kids miss homework or do something wrong its my fault for not being a good enough father.

Any case I could keep going on. I am deep in depression. I can feel it. Probably have bene for years, and I've made mistakes with finances and bills. We've been to couples counseling 3 or maybe 4 times over the last 20 years. Does no good. I feel worse and she just gets to heap on how I have failed, though I did learn she was disappointed i decided to leave the military. maybe that's when it started. One time a counselor asked me in a private session why don't I divorce. Its clear that I am unhappy. I guess, but I don't see a divorce making anything better. I don't want to divorce. I love her and this person isn't her. The person I knew was happy, joked, liked being with me, This isn't who I dated and wanted to marry. What happened? What did I do?

I have childish hobbies: I live board games, miniatures, geeky things (not video games). I can read too much at times and just zone out reading comic books and lose track of time. I know she doesn't respect any of these things. She has said she wishes I had hobbies that are more manly or do more to support the family (working on cars, woodworking, metal working). Maybe it's as simple as I am not the man she wanted. 

I know men who have done far worse to their wives and families. My brother in law for one. Yet they are able to still have what seems to be devoted wives. Do they just simply apologize? I can't be forgiven of breaking a picture hanging on a wall when I feel down the stairs....seems I was disrespectful. I know guys who were so drunk or high they missed the birth of not one but both their kids, and yet their wives are supportive.

I am at a complete loss. I am seeking and getting help (I think...I don't trust easily with this stuff as nothing good really breaks my way).


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here's help...

Read this "No More Mr Nice Guy" and the sticky thread at the top of this men's forum. Then come back and we'll talk.

You deserve better. We all deserve better, man or woman. 

Best


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

ConnectedTox said:


> Sometimes it feels like I have no more rabbits in my hat.
> 
> My wife and I have been married 20 years. 2 kids both teens.  The first 3-4 years of marriage were pretty good. We were childless and in the military. Sex was always an issue. When we were dating she couldn't keep her hands off me. The moment we got married she demanded a schedule. Which I agreed to, I mean we did have demanding duty schedules, so it made sense.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry this is how it worked out. This will sound harsh, but you seem to have taken the easy way out and she sounds like a bully. If my spouse said she didn't trust me, I would say "Why not?" "In what ways?" "Did you used to?" "What made you change?" All of this is constructive, i.e. not insulting, but it also isn't just hiding or saying what she wants to hear. If you've been to CC, I have to think "constructive conversations" has come up.

If she doesn't approve of your hobbies, who cares? Tell her your hobbies are for your amusement and not hers.

Depression is the most important issue, you should address it w/ a professional. After that, work on self-respect. It's possible she will respect you once you stand up for yourself, but a good chance she won't. In either case, you're better off, so do it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Who you thought she was only existed for a short time. This is who she really is. You’ll either have to accept her or divorce her because I very seriously doubt she’s interested in changing.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Just curious and perhaps nothing there, but it is not that uncommon for the person who accuses their spouse of cheating is actually the one doing it or have done it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

This IS who she is.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ConnectedTox said:


> Whatever she wants to hear I would say it. The beatings had to stop.


I'm not sure if you mean "beatings" as in a tongue lashing, or actual physical altercations. Could you clarify. BTW, saying whatever just to get her out of your face and off your back doesn't work. As you've seen for yourself.



ConnectedTox said:


> I have childish hobbies: I live board games, miniatures, geeky things (not video games). I can read too much at times and just zone out reading comic books and lose track of time.


Well, I don't want to come across as too harsh here, but I wouldn't respect a man who pursued childish interests either. It's okay to be geeky. It's okay to embrace your "inner child." But it sounds like you use these hobbies to zone out and tune out from your marriage. Just like telling your wife anything to get her to leave you alone, this doesn't work either.

Basically, from where I'm sitting, your wife sounds like she's paranoid and not particularly pleasant to be around. You sound very avoidant. Seems to me neither of you are addressing the elephant that's pooping all over the living room rug. Marriage counseling only works if you find a damn good therapist and both parties are completely committed to making change. Sounds like neither of you are willing to put in the hard work to change. Heck, maybe neither of you feels motivated enough to change.

So you are faced with the reality of either changing yourself, which means she may start to change in order to adapt or live with the situation you have. Frankly, I couldn't live in a marriage like yours. JMO.

ETA: You titled your post "I don't know what to do anymore." Well, what you have done hasn't worked and sounds downright maladaptive. Why not seek counseling for yourself? You are in dire need of learning to be assertive in order to say what you mean and mean what you say.


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## cd2 (Nov 17, 2020)

My thought is nobody’s perfect. Maybe you’re too hard on yourself? Sounds like you love her. I thought all wives criticize lol!


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

cd2 said:


> I thought all wives criticize


Yep. We learn...... " ....in one ear...out the other....". Seriously, pay no attention, unless her complaint is legitimate. You know which ones are, are which one's aren't. Improve the ways which are deficient, ignore all the rest.



ConnectedTox said:


> 2 kids both teens.


That means you have 5 years of this to endure. After the kids are 18, go do what the hell you want, when you want, and how you want.

In fact, start now. If you like comic books. so what ? So do I ...... I was tempted sore to buy the newest Christmas edition of MAD in the store yesterday.....

As long as you provide a reasonable living for your children, pay your bills responsibly..... to hell with what she says. You were not put into this world to live up to her expectations.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Just curious and perhaps nothing there, but it is not that uncommon for the person who accuses their spouse of cheating is actually the one doing it or have done it.


What i am thinking too.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You never stood up for yourself when it all started. You have taught her that she can treat you this way. It also kills any sexual desire she had for you. A woman doesn’t want a man she can push around .... it called $hit testing. Look it up... women do it all the time.... even subconsciously.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> You never stood up for yourself when it all started. You have taught her that she can treat you this way. It also kills any sexual desire she had for you. A woman doesn’t want a man she can push around .... it called $hit testing. Look it up... women do it all the time.... even subconsciously.


Yah this is some simple truth. I feel like you're going to have to grow a serious set of balls and start calling out the disrespect and making it clear you're not putting up with it any more. If there's a home maintenance issue that needs addressing, you take care of it, if she says hey my dad says it should be done like this not how you're doing it. Then you say I'll do it my way it's my house. It will be a tough transition but I think it's your only hope. 

From time to time my wife will be in a mood and act disrespectful to me, If that happens I will stop in my tracks look her dead in the eye and explain I know she's stressed or whatever the situation might be but umm hell no you don't get to take it out on me. Now if there is something really serious going on I might let it slide and just give her a look like you know you're acting like an a-hole right and then just move on. 

You also have to keep in mind the message your kids are getting also. If they witness her behavior towards you and you just taking it with no push back they are getting a very poor model of a marriage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@ConnectedTox, have you thought about therapy for yourself not couples counselling. You may need to do this to deal with your own issues, depression, etc not necessarily to restore your relationship with your wife. There is no harm in becoming a better/ more centered man. It will also mean you do not want to be with your wife unless she changes too. Take one step at a time.


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## Thisnotthat (Oct 28, 2020)

Go purchase the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and start working on it.

There isn't anything wrong with your hobbies, but you do sound like your trying to escape a little bit. Some of that's okay, but to much is unattractive regardless of gender. The bigger issue is that you've turned into a complete ***** when it comes to your wife! Why are you putting up with so much disrespect? The next time she starts to be disrespectful you need to stop that conversation. Don't engage, don't rebut, just firmly and unequivocally let her know the discussion is finished until she can be respectful, and then walk away.

Bigger picture, you need to go find your life. Don't worry about your wife and what she thinks of you or if she respects you or any of that. Just go figure out what makes you happy and make a plan to go get that!

Good luck friend, you've worked hard and you deserve some good things.


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## Nailhead (Sep 21, 2020)

What exactly did your W mean when she stated she did not trust you? Some say this/project when they themselves are doing something they should not be.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

She finds your hobbies childish, no matter what opinion she holds 5 women will step up and support it, that does not make it true.
I had hobbies that absorbed an entire weekend every month. I spend hundreds of dollars every summer on my current hobby. Both of these examples were interests that my wife has actively chosen not to be involved in. But she also sees no need to determine that my hobby is somehow childish or beneath me. In fact she is never happier than when I am away dinking around with my hobbies. 

Trust. Trust is the stuff that relationships are made up of. When years ago your spouse declared that she did not trust you what she was saying (even if she doesn't agree) is that on that very day the relationship was over. Believe it.

It's not something you did wrong. Her twisted warped view of the universe says that you are not her man. Believe it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> Her twisted warped view of the universe


Exactly right. Ignore her. Do what YOU KNOW is RIGHT. Now, and always.



ConnectedTox said:


> he person I knew was happy, joked, liked being with me, This isn't who I dated and wanted to marry. What happened? What did I do?


The person you dated and wanted to marry was a facade. What "happened" is that you married the REAL person. And, you did NOTHING.


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## JenniferChurchillZYc (Nov 24, 2020)

Years ago, getting married and having children was the expectation. But over the last two decades, those expectations have shifted, with fewer and fewer folks considering marriage a necessity. A 2017 report from the Pew Research Center found one in seven people who've never been married before don't want to get married ever, and another 27% of people aren't sure how they feel about marriage. A 2019 Pew report found just 17% of people think marriage is essential for a woman to have a fulfilling life (16% for men), and three in 10 people think being married is simply not important.
*____*
kratom mate


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

ConnectedTox said:


> Sometimes it feels like I have no more rabbits in my hat.
> 
> My wife and I have been married 20 years. 2 kids both teens. The first 3-4 years of marriage were pretty good. We were childless and in the military. Sex was always an issue. When we were dating she couldn't keep her hands off me. The moment we got married she demanded a schedule. Which I agreed to, I mean we did have demanding duty schedules, so it made sense.
> 
> ...


Everyone makes mistakes; don't beat yourself up. Your hobbies are not childish... they're healthy. 

Get help for yourself, see a therapist, and I would strongly consider divorce if your wife doesn't start showing you the same respect she demands for herself. 

The only thing I'd say you're doing wrong is setting a bad example for your kids about what a healthy relationship should look like. You're doing this by tolerating her behavior.


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## 347055 (Nov 7, 2020)

ConnectedTox said:


> I love her and this person isn't her.


The person you married 20 years ago doesn't exist, and was likely a deception in the first place. "This" person IS your wife. The "her" you love doesn't and never did exist.

The therapist who advised divorce was on target. You should have divorced when she said she didn't trust you. She ripped up the marriage contract that day. Do you want to spend the next 20 years sinking into deeper depression? This life is the only one you have, way too short to put up with the cr*p she has been dishing up for you all of this time.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I totally agree that the person you dated and the person you married are not the same person. 
we all want a loving partner that enhances our lives. You don’t have One.

however, the more serious problem here is not your wife. It’s YOU. You are the one allowing these things to happen, because you surely aren’t being forced to be married. 
you’re pointing fingers to her, her, her.

Get to counseling and learn to wake up and appreciate the man in the mirror, and love him for his good qualities. Then put that man in the position to build a happy life for himself. If that involves straightening out his wife’s behavior, so be it. If it involves growing the self confidence to leave a hateful wife, so be it. Your life is going to be as you make it. So far, you are sabotaging yourself on a daily basis.

the problem is you. You can fix you.
You can’t fix her, but if you fix you, she will likely not be a problem anymore. You might even find that she turns back into the woman you dated. Fix you first.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

ConnectedTox said:


> I love her and this person isn't her. The person* I knew* was happy, joked, liked being with me, This isn't who I dated and wanted to marry.


How does her present-day personality and behavior compare to what you see in either of her parents?

From the world of behavioral genetics we know this - the heritability of all behavioral traits increases with age. Bank on that. This means that as we get older our personalities change and we follow our impulses much more readily than we do learned behavior or the behavior which has been influenced by peer network effects.

The girl you married had a personality that was shaped by the influences around her, strongly peer-group influenced and strongly conscious choice (she made herself to be who she wanted to be, as close to an ideal image as she could.) Think of this like a layer of clothing. As we grow older we find less need to put effort into maintaining the persona we created, the layers of clothing start to come off, and we default towards our behavioral impulses. This is why we so frequently read horror-confessionals from mid-life woman who look in the bathroom mirror and realize that they've "become" their mother.

To cut to the chase, the wife you once knew is dead, just in the same way that the young guy you were once is also not who are you today.


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