# Cultural assumptions and different expectations



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

This is in no way, shape or form an "excuse" for the disrespect and hurt that my H delivers in his angriest moments.

It's just another factor and angle in my analysis.

Some of our conflicts stem from the reality that we were raised with different ideas of what's "ok" in a marriage or family, or even between friends.

Both of us come from the same Mediterranean ethnic background. He's a lot closer to the roots of a certain "flavor" of that background. He grew up in a much different environment than I did--not just with his parents, but overall.

In the world he grew up in--with his parents, friends, cousins, family--it was no big deal to go off on someone if they piss you off, in a passionate reckless vent. Gets the blood flowing. Exhilarating. Words are just words, throw them around, no harm, no foul. Spew on someone, then laugh it off and call it a day.

That's not how I grew up. I don't operate that way.

There may be a woman out there who does. Who "gives it right back," who gets off on fighting. Who will either roll her eyes when he walks in and yells, or scream and cuss right back at him and then be ready for makeup sex on his schedule.

I'm not that girl.

I am, however, willing to figure out a middle ground between "different communication styles"--IF he is too. 

I can "get" that there isn't always malice or disrespect behind his reckless verbage, but that sometimes it's just a "different" way of interacting...IF he can "get" what MY way is. 

Some people seem happy enough in a marriage that includes blowing off steam by verbally intimidating your spouse if you're in a crappy mood...or are they? 

Some people trot along in marriages that break all 7 of Gottman's principles on a regular basis, and look happy. I have cousins who function like that. Honestly, to a certain extent, it is "cultural." They just yell and snipe at each other whenever they feel like it--but they've "got each other's back." 

When I married my husband, I honestly thought he *didn't* want that--I thought we wanted the same kind of marriage, the same dynamic. Things are shifting.

Just some thoughts.

Where's the line between "cultural differences," and "disrespect" or even "abuse"?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

"Where's the line between "cultural differences," and "disrespect" or even "abuse"? "

Can't say definitely but we all probably know when we see it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Abuse is pretty clear-cut.

_*Signs of an abusive relationship*There are many signs of an abusive relationship. The most telling sign is fear of your partner. If you feel like you have to walk on eggshells around your partner—constantly watching what you say and do in order to avoid a blow-up—chances are your relationship is unhealthy and abusive. Other signs that you may be in an abusive relationship include a partner who belittles you or tries to control you, and feelings of self-loathing, helplessness, and desperation.

To determine whether your relationship is abusive, answer the questions below. The more “yes” answers, the more likely it is that you’re in an abusive relationship. 

*SIGNS THAT YOU’RE IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP *Your Inner Thoughts and Feelings Your Partner’s Belittling Behavior 
Do you:

feel afraid of your partner much of the time? 
avoid certain topics out of fear of angering your partner? 
feel that you can’t do anything right for your partner? 
believe that you deserve to be hurt or mistreated? 
wonder if you’re the one who is crazy? 
feel emotionally numb or helpless? 
Does your partner:

humiliate or yell at you? 
criticize you and put you down? 
treat you so badly that you’re embarrassed for your friends or family to see? 
ignore or put down your opinions or accomplishments? 
blame you for his own abusive behavior? 
see you as property or a sex object, rather than as a person? 

Your Partner’s Violent Behavior or Threats Your Partner’s Controlling Behavior 
Does your partner:

have a bad and unpredictable temper? 
hurt you, or threaten to hurt or kill you? 
threaten to take your children away or harm them? 
threaten to commit suicide if you leave? 
force you to have sex? 
destroy your belongings? 
Does your partner:

act excessively jealous and possessive? 
control where you go or what you do? 
keep you from seeing your friends or family? 
limit your access to money, the phone, or the car? 
constantly check up on _
Domestic Violence and Abuse: Signs of Abuse and Abusive Relationships


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Im just saying that in some environments there's a higher tolerance and frequency of a hot temper.
In some cultural environments, youre expected to make yourself heard by yelling.
I'm not referring to the part about controlling someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I hear ya but a hot temper is not the same as an abusive character


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

And that actually might not be such a big problem in your marriage if his "core" was secure and happy. It seems neither of those two things is true. So you have someone who is very easily offended, who has a large pool of anger that feeds into whatever the incident "du jour" is, and the result is you have an ugly choice. Either:
- Walk on eggshells because almost anything can cause him to detonate or
- Walk around in a mild state of detached apathy saying very little and just not really caring when he explodes because you have accepted that he is generally toxic

I have worked with some "passionate" people from your part of the world. One guy in particular could be highly volcanic. And it was also true that he was a generally happy, secure and well adjusted guy. So mostly the passion simply meant "high intensity". And a lot of that was just great stuff. When he occasionally erupted - it was typically a large over reaction to something. But the "something" was valid. And you could actually talk to him about it later in a rational way. I really enjoyed working with him because his passion was a plus 10 times for every one time it was a minus. 





credamdóchasgra said:


> This is in no way, shape or form an "excuse" for the disrespect and hurt that my H delivers in his angriest moments.
> 
> It's just another factor and angle in my analysis.
> 
> ...


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I hear ya but a hot temper is not the same as an abusive character


I agree.

I'm honestly not sure which one I'm dealing with. I'm processing a lot.
Our MC spoke of "situational abuse," that it's not the same as what you listed.
I've seen/experienced an abusive personality before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> And that actually might not be such a big problem in your marriage if his "core" was secure and happy. It seems neither of those two things is true. So you have someone who is very easily offended, who has a large pool of anger that feeds into whatever the incident "du jour" is, and the result is you have an ugly choice. Either:
> - Walk on eggshells because almost anything can cause him to detonate or
> - Walk around in a mild state of detached apathy saying very little and just not really caring when he explodes because you have accepted that he is generally toxic
> 
> I have worked with some "passionate" people from your part of the world. One guy in particular could be highly volcanic. And it was also true that he was a generally happy, secure and well adjusted guy. So mostly the passion simply meant "high intensity". And a lot of that was just great stuff. When he occasionally erupted - it was typically a large over reaction to something. But the "something" was valid. And you could actually talk to him about it later in a rational way. I really enjoyed working with him because his passion was a plus 10 times for every one time it was a minus.


That happy-core self is who he presents himself to be. He works hard at it. That's who I thought I married.
He's sometimes able to talk about it afterwards in a rational way.
I'm sticking with my MO for a little while longer.
I'm NOT walking on eggshells. But i'm also not fueling the fire.
I'm being myself, and if he wants to overreact, I'm calmly telling him how it makes me feel.
Flashing the yellow warning light.

Last night it was "THANKS for turning off the popcorn maker!!"--in nasty sarcastic voice
I said "oops, didn't realize it was on. Is this really worth getting angry and yelling about?"
"YES!! It wastes power! You could say sorry!"
me: "I am more likely to say that if i'm not being yelled at. This is a small thing."

Then, I went into cool temp and I didn't give him what he was looking for when we got in bed.

There are people who want me to just leave him already. 
Can't at this moment. 
I am stepping back and biding my time. No need to be hasty. 
He knows how I feel---let's see what he does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> So you have someone who is very easily offended, who has a large pool of anger that feeds into whatever the incident "du jour" is,
> 
> - almost anything can cause him to detonate or
> -


Goodness. That describes what my marriage was like. Ugh. Bad memories.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

It's not always like that.

Right now he's trying to keep us in a conflict cycle.
I won't bite.
He'll either get on board and grow up, or I'll leave. He knows it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It may be cultural how he is acting. But there is no culture where a woman is sexually attracted to a man that cannot control his emotions and yells at her.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Hicks said:


> It may be cultural how he is acting. But there is no culture where a woman is sexually attracted to a man that cannot control his emotions and yells at her.


 I think I see the point you (maybe) want to make.
But some women--whatever culture--are in fact attracted to hot-tempered men.
Yes, being yelled at kills my attraction to him. I don't want to be near him when he yells at me.
But there is something in the "soft side" of a "tough guy" that many women do find attractive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

A "happy/well adjusted" passionate man. Nothing better. 

An unhappy and insecure passionate man. Total friggin nightmare.




credamdóchasgra said:


> I think I see the point you (maybe) want to make.
> But some women--whatever culture--are in fact attracted to hot-tempered men.
> Yes, being yelled at kills my attraction to him. I don't want to be near him when he yells at me.
> But there is something in the "soft side" of a "tough guy" that many women do find attractive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> A "happy/well adjusted" passionate man. Nothing better.
> 
> An unhappy and insecure passionate man. Total friggin nightmare.


I know his insecurity is the crux of the issues.
Things will only get better for us if he sees this in himself and rebuilds himself.

Does anyone know how much it hurts to love someone like this?
Call it codependence if you want; you may be right.

But now I want us to grow to a more mature version of love.
Or none at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I know his insecurity is the crux of the issues.
> Things will only get better for us if he sees this in himself and rebuilds himself.
> 
> *Does anyone know how much it hurts to love someone like this?*Call it codependence if you want; you may be right.
> ...


Yep.


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