# Wife says she doesn't love me any more...



## 85GT-79FJ40

My wife and I have been together for almost 20 years. We've been married for 10. Before we were married we lived together for 8-9 years, built a house, started careers, and a year after were blessed with a beautiful little girl who's now 8. I've always been a "car guy" and as it turns out although she was always initially supportive when I embarked on a restoration project she was really getting hurt inside. I tend to become obsessed with the idea of completion of projects and pay little attention to anything else. She got neglected a LOT including when she was pregnant with our daughter. At the time I thought I was doing the right thing getting the summer car I had at the time sorted out before she was born. She saw it as abandonment. I finally got sick of working on stuff all the time when I should have been spending time with my family and sold both my "old" cars last spring and bought one newer reliable one to replace them. But it turned out to need a little work, and about the same time we decided to sell our home and move closer to town and my daughters activities. But the house needed work too so I had that to deal with. On top of this I work out of town and I'm on the road 2 hours a day. 

She had been a little distant for about a month and 10 days or so ago when she was done putting my daughter to bed I pleaded with her to talk to me. She just looked me right in the eye and told me she didn't love me as a husband any more and that we would talk when our daughter had a sleepover that weekend. 

I was completely taken by surprise and she didn't want to talk about it further then. I pleaded for her to talk to me and she wouldn't have any part of it. I sat up all night thinking about what this meant. The next day I called in to work and went to my best-man's place and worked on some stuff in his shop while we talked about it. He's got the same problem where he gets too into things and his wife has to reel him in every now and then. 

So that night came and she told me all those times I was away from her she felt neglected. And how I was never romantic with her, my botched marriage proposal, and the fact I never take care of her when she's sick. All true. I felt like such a schmuck. Still do. Here's the love of my life and the mother of my child laying it all out as my tears pool up on the floor. 

In my late teens I started issues with social anxiety. I am extremely uncomfortable in crowds, especially in restaurants. We have very rarely eaten out, never on any kind of dinner date just the two of us. We took one trip to Niagara falls together about a year after we met, but living beyond our means pretty much always we've never had the money to take any vacations. No honeymoon either. And as she was putting up a wall around her heart all these years I thought she was just upset and ignored it. 

Now I've had the grandest of wake-up calls. She says she doesn't want to do anything to impact our daughter (who still has no idea, yet she's been sleeping with mommy the last few nights while I'm on the couch) but I'm incredibly worried I'm going to lose her forever. We have had a few talks since and I have told her if she's willing to give me another chance I promise things will not be the same. It's also brought out a side of me that I had forgotten since high school. I've been writing her poetry, telling her about my past relationships that hurt me before her (that one backfired HUGE) and just pouring my heart out. Complimenting her, waiting on her, and my writing just seems to piss her off. Thursday I didn't get a reply back to a text and I left work and drove straight to her job. She was extremely unimpressed. Now I'm just trying to be the best dad I can and hopefully she'll let me back into her heart. 

I want to keep this side of me alive that exposes my emotions to her. and I want more than anything to make her happy. I want to re-propose the right way and take her out, send her flowers on a tuesday for no reason, and My god what was I thinking not taking care of her when she was sick.... More than anything I want to raise our child together and spend more time with them. I've wanted that for a long time but with her schedule, working out of town, house stuff, no money it just hasn't worked out. She sees it as too little to late. Doesn't want to go to couples therapy, says (she recently got into facebook again) she sees other peoples family lives/marriages and wish she had that. I want to give it to her. She says she doesn't know what she's going to do yet. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes. 

Anyone been there? Am I screwed?


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## Duguesclin

She may not care that much for poetry about yourself or your issues with past relationships.

Do you know what she likes?

You need to be focused on her.


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## Marc878

Begging and pleading, writing poetry is the absolute worst Thing you could do. Whining now will only lose respect.

Establish 15 to 20 hours a week just for you and her. Take her out for dates. Don't talk about the marriage just have some fun.

The one thing you'd better do is check your phone bill right now. Go online look for a lot of calls to a specific number. Takes about 30 minutes. Rule out another man or affair.

Get a copy of Hus Needs, Her Needs and read it.


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## Marc878

Oh by the way Facebook is commonly know as Fvckbook. Start looking


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## 85GT-79FJ40

She actually did say she liked the poetry. Just pissed I never did it before.


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## Holland

You can't neglect a partner, let the love slowly die and then all of a sudden expect her heart to warm to you again. Such a common thing to happen and sadly it is one of those things that people learn too late.

Be a man, sit her down and tell her you know you screwed up. You love her and want the chance to put this right. Take responsibility for what you have created and by that I don't mean suck up to her but stand up tall like a man and tell her you realise what you have done wrong and that you will fix it.
Then do as a PP suggested, spend time together doing fun things (things she enjoys) with no other motive than spending time with her. No talk about the marriage problems, just enjoy each other like you did at the start. Give her time to trust in who you are because right now she has no faith in you as a husband.

Good luck, I hope all works out well for you.


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## Duguesclin

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> She actually did say she liked the poetry. Just pissed I never did it before.


That is positive. If she likes it, keep doing it.

She is pissed, that is a given. Focus on what makes her feel better. But you need to listen to her.

Fixing your marriage will take time. Be patient and steady.


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## Celes

It will take time before she warms up. Right now, she's probably skeptical. She's most likely worried this is just temporary and you'll revert back to your old ways. Just be consistent and give it time.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

We have had a few productive discussions. I have admitted my faults in words and in writing. Some of the poetry kind of creeped her out but she did like most of it. So I know where to focus on that going forward. Right now she says what she wants is for me to keep myself together for our daughter while she figures out what she wants to do, and she's made it clear that it's her decision, not ours. I'm OK with that. I'm doing much better and keeping myself together now that i've somewhat accepted my situation. I don't expect it to happen quick. But with our house for sale, an enormous pile of debt overhead, and craziness at both of our jobs currently we both have a lot on her mind. Ideally I want to get the house sold, pay off the debt, and buy a house about half the size we can actually afford and start over. I've told her this and she agrees on everything but me. Yet she doesn't want to hurt our daughter by splitting up. I'm trying to be the best dad and man in general I can be in this situation but I'm so confused. And upset I never saw it coming. I'm making good use of my lack of sleep and started getting back in shape. Up until the new year I thought we were very happy. Wonderful little girl, we had a great new years, went kayaking on christmas day in new england!! Then she started up on facebook again and started seeing all her old friend's pictures with their happy families, then heard all about a friend's divorce, and poof! I get the bomb dropped.


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## Duguesclin

Besides your daughter, what do you think are your wife's priorities? Do they match yours?


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## 85GT-79FJ40

She says she wants romance and family time. She wants me to take care of her when she's sick. None of which I've been particular good at for a long time but she didn't make it blatantly obvious enough for me to see it. The last time she was sick I admit I was a miserable SOB. Our daughter had a sleepover and they woke up at 2AM and I was furious. My wife had come down with something (which I didn't realize until later) and gave up and let them get up and play. I was so mad at her I didn't give her the least bit of affection. My daughter asked me why I wasn't taking care of mommy and I knew that was real bad but I still ignored it. Dumbass. Huge mistake as that's the exact situation she brought up. We both want to spend more time as a family and I really want to be romantic with her. I have always had ideas of doing stuff but being so broke and having so little time I've never been impulsive and just said screw it and done it. She has the same ideas about the house and debt she just isn't sure about me any more. And now I get that. But I so desperately want to make up for lost time I'm coming on too strong and it's secured my place on the couch.


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## Holland

Sleeping on the couch is not good. Take all words online with a grain of salt but just thinking of it from a personal POV I would respect my partner more if he said "no, I'm not sleeping on the couch, you are my wife, I love you and I want to sleep peacefully next to you." Sleeping on the couch would not be acceptable in my world.

As for making up for lost time that is impossible. You made mistakes (as did she by not communicating better) but you cannot change the past only show remorse for it and show her with your actions that you understand the mistakes and more than anything want a great life with her.

IMHO it is vital to own your mistakes, to only have the right intentions behind your words and actions and to make sure your words and actions are in alignment.


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## Froggi

It might be too late and I don't blame her one bit.

You seem to expect her to just be grateful you are finally paying attention to her. You want her to just sweep the crap you pulled under the rug.

Give her space. See a counselor to find out why you thought neglecting her was such a hot idea.

To not help when she was sick was cruel. Abusive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985

Get a copy of "The 5 Love Languages" and read it. To get a quicker start, there is a free 5 Love Languages app in the app store. It is a quiz. You take it and your wife takes it. It will tell you what she needs for love. Not perfect but a start and you can do this tomorrow for free. I found out after 20+ years that my wife wants Quality Time. Yes, she did not make it "obvious", but I should have known. Sounds like your wife also needs Quality Time for love.---> "She says she wants romance and family time." 

Find out what are her top two love languages.


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## MachoMcCoy

Start the 180 and prepare for the worst. Once they're gone, they're gone. You can become the exact person she (tells you) she wants, but ONE MISCUE, and you're back to square one. 

Walk-away-wives. Tearing at the fabric of our society, and everyone is going to, AGAIN, treat this as an isolated incident. Women get bored in their marriages then blame their husband for not "Entertaining them" for 7 years. Then want to walk and try again.

It's a GD pandemic and I'm the only one that gets it.


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## IIJokerII

Froggi said:


> It might be too late and I don't blame her one bit.
> 
> You seem to expect her to just be grateful you are finally paying attention to her. You want her to just sweep the crap you pulled under the rug.
> 
> Give her space. See a counselor to find out why you thought neglecting her was such a hot idea.
> 
> To not help when she was sick was cruel. Abusive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Easy on the tar a feather bit here... We only know the surface of the problems as described by the OP. Far more to this than anyone knows yet.... The Classic ILYBINILWY seems to be transmitted here albeit in a different frequency. These problems that his Wife has detailed, were they problems BEFORE she got into facebook? Sounds like the depth of disappointment was a surprise to the OP... We've all seen this before.


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## Ripper

MachoMcCoy said:


> It's a GD pandemic and I'm the only one that gets it.


Not the only one. Maybe one day, when divorce laws aren't so gynocentric we will see more "walkaway husbands".

OP, you are going to have a horde of posters on here soon cramming blame, shame, and responsibility for this down your throat. Own what you feel is your part of it to be sure, but your wife has agency as well. Its not your duty to entertain her 24/7 like an old time court jester. 

Plenty of walkaway wife threads around here, one under this section somewhere, don't know how much help they will be. Most information on the subject focuses entirely on the men's fault, forgetting that there are two people in the marriage.

Good luck.


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## MachoMcCoy

Ripper said:


> Plenty of walkaway wife threads around here, one under this section somewhere, don't know how much help they will be.


None. They always turn into gender wars.



Ripper said:


> Maybe one day, when divorce laws aren't so gynocentric we will see more "walkaway husbands".


To think there could ever be a walkaway husband means you don't agree with the whole Mars vs. Venus thing. Men and women are different and have different needs. Once husbands start leaving in droves because their wives didn't pay enough attention to them (as opposed to just not ****ing them), we'll have walkaway husbands. 

In other words, there will never be a pandemic called "walk-away-husband".


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## Holland

MachoMcCoy said:


> None. They always turn into gender wars.
> 
> 
> 
> To think there could ever be a walkaway husband means you don't agree with the whole Mars vs. Venus thing. Men and women are different and have different needs. Once husbands start leaving in droves because their wives didn't pay enough attention to them (as opposed to just not ****ing them), we'll have walkaway husbands.
> 
> *In other words, there will never be a pandemic called "walk-away-husband*".


For their to be such a thing as this (alleged) WAW pandemic then there is at the same time a pandemic of men like the OP that have ignored their wives for so long that they up and leave.


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## turnera

Two thoughts. First, check her phone and her facebook usage. See if she's hooked up with any old boyfriends. Not romantically, just as in 'wow, look at what I let get away.' That's all it takes sometimes - to start thinking about what life would be like without you., and then suddenly 'why stay?'

Second, you have a big learning curve on what it takes to make a successful marriage. I suggest reading His Needs Her Needs first, because it covers a bit more than 5 Love Languages and gives you a 'program' to follow. Let her see you learning. The best thing you can do at this stage is try to gain more time, because it takes women a LONG time to thaw out. If they ever do. 

My guess is it won't work, because you have habitually disappointed her, for years and years. No dates? No vacation? No friends events? Taking her for granted and then not treating HER like she matters? What woman wants to get married to have THAT life? 

But you may as well try; you never know.


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## thread the needle

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...t-fell-back-love-saving-16-year-marriage.html


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## MachoMcCoy

Holland said:


> For their to be such a thing as this (alleged) WAW pandemic then there is at the same time a pandemic of men like the OP that have ignored their wives for so long that they up and leave.


This man did not leave the marriage because his wife wasn't paying attention to him. This man didn't "walk-away". This man was on the other end of a walk-away-wife. I call him a push-away-husband.


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## Evinrude58

What you've done is stupid. Millions of men have done it. 
It does lead to this.

My thoughts:

What you have just described is an exact sequence of events that a wife who is cheating either emotionally or physically would exhibit.

You are also showing the exact symptoms of a husband who thinks every single problem in the marriage is his fault. It certainly sounds like you've got your problems. Guess what? All we are hearing about us your problems. I'm guessing she has hers, too. But you're only focusing on yours because she wants a divorce.

My opinion:

You need to do lots of research on her phone, computer, etc. Will she let you have her phone to borrow it, or does it have a pass code? Is she very protective of it? Does she stay on the phone a lot all of a sudden since she has been distant? Change is sex life?

Regardless, the sad truth is that when a woman changes her mind about loving a man, the man can move mountains and it's not going to change her mind. And of you have been as neglectful and such as you describe, about the only thing you can so is try to change and wait things out.
I suspect another man involved in your wife's life in some way. You will say it's impossible, then post back in a few days and say otherwise.
But you are going to grovel, nice her back, etc. It won't work. Just try to be a good husband and dad and do not text, plead, cry, ask for reassurance, or anything else your hurting mind is telling you to do. 
Just do what you should do, and stop sleeping in the couch or accepting any mistreatment from her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MachoMcCoy

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> So that night came and she told me all those times I was away from her she felt neglected. And how I was never romantic with her, my botched marriage proposal, and the fact I never take care of her when she's sick. All true. I felt like such a schmuck. Still do. Here's the love of my life and the mother of my child laying it all out as my tears pool up on the floor.
> 
> Am I screwed?



I'm already on record for saying yes to that last question. But here's the deal with the rest:

You weren't perfect. You missed the title of "first one ever" by quite a bit, it looks like. I did too. I'll bet most of the men on here would more or less agree. Soooo....

A woman is married for 7 years, let's say, to one of us schmucks. She's not feelin' it any more. She's watching "New Girl" and reading Cosmo and watching "50 Shades" (again) late into the night thinking "why not me"?

Then she starts thinking about whichever trait it is of ours that she hates most. (I see yours). And it gets to where it's "bad enough" that you get the talk. A variation on the ILYBINILWY speech. 

Anyhoo, she reached way back for this one. You haven't "changed", so it seems. She's built up at least 8 years of resentment. That's a lot to get over. My wife had 15 years or so. I gave up trying to win her back within three years of finding out. (My walk-away-wife chose to keep her marriage/family together. They don't have to actually "leave" to be a WAW). 

180. I think everyone agrees. Regardless of whatever else you do, start fixing yourself. Her excuses may be bull dookey, but they are real to her.

Spy a little. But if there is a love interest, he's a symptom, not the problem. So don't go crazy with it as some have suggested.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Well I've been off the couch for the last 2 nights. Finally sleeping again. Sunday night and last night we talked a little. She's very cold still and very emotional but she's at least listening now. I'm keeping myself together pretty well and and being the best dad I can be. She says this goes back to way before we were married. Honestly back that far I don't recall much except the good times. I never saw anything really "wrong" with our marriage before she shut down. Now I know we both had major communication issues. Had I known she was feeling this way I would have snapped out of it. But it's too late for that now. And if this does eventually work out I've made it clear that we both have to communicate better. Sometimes I need flashing signs to see things depending on my state of mind. This was an exploding flashing sign and I sure see it now! I haven't looked at her phone but I don't think I need to. I have looked at her facebook page. Nothing there. She's just been unhappy and hiding it for a long time and just exploded. She's a very strong willed woman. I suspect someone not as strong or stubborn wouldn't have let this go for so long. We both agree on getting rid of the house and getting a smaller place we can afford. We have to get rid of the stress from being crushed financially. And I think that stress has been a big part of my problem. I know it's been part of hers. And much like she feels jealous of other's posts on facebook I turned to car forums when I was down and did some crazy projects seeking recognition from my peers. And I got it. Unfortunately I neglected what was really important in the process. 

The word divorce hasn't even been uttered through all of this. I don't think she wants that and she isn't going to do anything rash to affect our family until she's sure she knows how she feels. Right now she says she's just numb and wants her space and time to think about the future. I've told her that although I realize she doesn't trust me like she once did I am here if she ever wants to talk about anything and that I love her very much and want to do anything and everything to make our lives better from here on out. But that I know she's not ready yet and I can't change what I've done in the past. But I regret it deeply. 

And to those who think she's cheating I still have 100 percent trust in her. Besides with her work schedule and all my daughter's activities there's no time anyway. There's hardly been time for the two of us to spend any time together for the last few years. 


It's actually a snow day today and she went to work and I stayed here with our daughter. I think my wife is giving me a test. Before she left she set up a play date with a kid that drives me bonkers. Same one from the aforementioned sleepover. So I gotta keep my cool. Wish me luck.


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## WandaJ

MachoMcCoy said:


> It's a GD pandemic and I'm the only one that gets it.


It's a pandeminc of women leaving their SOB husbands, because finally they are not enslaved to them. Horrible, truly horrible.


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## Chaparral

Has your sex life changed in the last year?

Are you friends with her on Facebook?


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## CatJayBird

MachoMcCoy said:


> Start the 180 and prepare for the worst. Once they're gone, they're gone. You can become the exact person she (tells you) she wants, but ONE MISCUE, and you're back to square one.
> 
> Walk-away-wives. Tearing at the fabric of our society, and everyone is going to, AGAIN, treat this as an isolated incident. Women get bored in their marriages then blame their husband for not "Entertaining them" for 7 years. Then want to walk and try again.
> 
> It's a GD pandemic and I'm the only one that gets it.


Bull to the sh!t...

I think the pandemic is the loss of communication and unresponsive spouses/so.

Also, if she's already feeling neglected the 180 on her will just make it worse.

OP...I suggest marriage counseling...get it all out there in the open. It will be messy and ugly, but you've got to start somewhere.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Chaparral said:


> Has your sex life changed in the last year?
> 
> Are you friends with her on Facebook?


Obviously there hasn't been any sex for about 6 weeks now. New years was the last time. Our daughter had a sleepover and we were at some friend's house just hanging out having a few drinks. She basically dragged me out of there to make love to me. It was wonderful, as it usually is. But with busy lives and a kid we don't have sex anywhere near as often as we did when we were first together. But she did say that there had been times she had tried to be affectionate with me and she thought I ignored her. I got turned down trying to be affectionate with her seemingly constantly. Lack of communication and just me being blind all these years. If only I had a clue...

I'm not on facebook. I'm of the opinion it does a lot more harm than good, and the current situation i'm in reinforces that pretty well. Friends I have from the past that were good friends I still talk to and see from time to time. People who weren't really good friends (like everyone's "extra" facebook friends) I could care less about.


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## naiveonedave

CatJayBird said:


> Bull to the sh!t...
> 
> I think the pandemic is the loss of communication and unresponsive spouses/so.
> 
> Also, if she's already feeling neglected the 180 on her will just make it worse.
> 
> OP...I suggest marriage counseling...get it all out there in the open. It will be messy and ugly, but you've got to start somewhere.


MC is useless if she is cheating.

And since she is close to a WAW, I think the OP needs to detach. Her behavior to him is disgusting.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

I don't find my wife's behavior disgusting and I know she's not cheating on me. She's not going anywhere at the moment and is unsure where she wants our relationship to go from here. At least that's my take so far. Just ordered a few of the books suggested to me and hopefully she'll read them too.


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## Holland

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I don't find my wife's behavior disgusting and I know she's not cheating on me. She's not going anywhere at the moment and is unsure where she wants our relationship to go from here. At least that's my take so far. Just ordered a few of the books suggested to me and hopefully she'll read them too.


OP I agree your wifes behaviour is not disgusting, just be aware there is a lot of paranoia around here in regard to cheating. 
Your story sounds very honest and from an outsiders POV it all makes sense. You neglected your wife and marriage, this rarely works out well and for women it can be very hard to come back.
You have stood up and taken responsibility for your part in the weakening of your marriage, this is something many cannot do or refuse to even see that they hold a fair part of the blame.

Anyhow just keep being strong. I totally agree with the PP that said do not do the 180 on your wife, after the neglect she has endured, the 180 will only drive her away for good.
Be the man she can trust and feels safe with. It will take time. All the best to you.


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## wmn1

Froggi said:


> It might be too late and I don't blame her one bit.
> 
> You seem to expect her to just be grateful you are finally paying attention to her. You want her to just sweep the crap you pulled under the rug.
> 
> Give her space. See a counselor to find out why you thought neglecting her was such a hot idea.
> 
> To not help when she was sick was cruel. Abusive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



doesn't sound like she's contributing much here either, does it Froggi ???? And giving her space to do what ? Fall further out of love with him ? I throw the BS flag on that one


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## wmn1

naiveonedave said:


> MC is useless if she is cheating.
> 
> And since she is close to a WAW, I think the OP needs to detach. Her behavior to him is disgusting.



I agree Dave. Completely. I also, if I was him, would not discount the thought that she may be cheating. He says she's not but does he even have any idea what to look for to find out ? This guy needs to find out exactly what he's dealing with and he hasn't even started yet


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## turnera

Did you get the book His Needs Her Needs like I suggested?


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## IIJokerII

WandaJ said:


> It's a pandeminc of women leaving their SOB husbands, because finally they are not enslaved to them. Horrible, truly horrible.


 I would hardly consider someone a SOB or POS for not taking out the trash or leaving a dirty dish on the sink, no matter how much they've been asked to change their way's. The reasons most Walk-Away-Wives leave are trivial, at best. And now that there is a pseudo clinical term, Walk away wife, it is now somehow, as always it seems nowadays, the mans fault and a verbal escape clause and reasoning to abandon a joint commitment. 

Men used to do this, they were, and still are called deadbeat loser's.... Doesn't have that clinical ring to it.... Or the benefit of having a severance package to boot.


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## MachoMcCoy

Blows me away that you are buying her crap. She's a standard walk-away. She got bored. Fell out of love and YOU are the reason.



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> She actually did say she liked the poetry. Just pissed I never did it before.


Something else you never did. Funny how you never knew she wanted it. 90+ percent of women would get creeped out, but suddenly she's a poet.



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Some of the poetry kind of creeped her out


HA! Too funny.



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> She says this goes back to way before we were married.


So this goes back THAT far, huh? And it NEVER came up...




85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I suspect someone not as strong or stubborn wouldn't have let this go for so long.


Yeah. She's a real fighter. See's some pics on Facebook of happy families and decides to give up.

If there has EVER been a defender of the Walk-Away-Wife, it's me. I am on VAST record here "blaming" the husband for his wife walking.

But sometimes they just get bored. Then hit you with the bombshell. You have ZERO control at that point. 

Except for the 180. Learn it. Live it. Love it.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Yes his needs her needs is on the way along with 2 of his other books. We had a bit of a blowout over it today but hopefully when she gets a handle on this she'll read them too.


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## tech-novelist

There are quite a few red flags here, meaning I think she is cheating on you or about to.

1. ILYBINILWY, which almost always means cheating is in progress or getting started.
2. Marital history rewriting, which is a way of distancing herself while blaming you.
3. No sex is a very bad sign also.

Read the http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html and find out what is going on.

And don't let on that you are suspicious!


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## inarut

I agree with holland 100% on every post. I also speak from my own experience. You are going to have to work hard and prove yourself. Keep it together even though you are in a tailspin. You will not change overnight. You will mess up. The key is owning it . Be open, honest and really communicate. She has to as well. Change the dynamic. Not an easy thing to do after so many years it's ingrained. but it can and must be done if this marriage is to survive.


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## old red

Read Bagdons thread on this website. He was able to get his wife to fall back in love with him.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/85369-she-said-w-man-i-dont-love.html


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## MachoMcCoy

OK. Sorry everyone. I got sidetracked into my own little gender war, with myself basically. 

Let's get back to your original 2 questions:



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Am I screwed?


Yes, more below.

But more importantly...



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Anyone been there?


A resounding "YES", my friend. Make sure anyone else' advice you take can say the same.




85GT-79FJ40 said:


> It's actually a snow day today and she went to work and I stayed here with our daughter. I think my wife is giving me a test. Before she left she set up a play date with a kid that drives me bonkers. Same one from the aforementioned sleepover. So I gotta keep my cool.


OK. This is where I'm starting. I was going to start early with a scorecard that was to look something like this by now (almost half way through), but I got lazy. This wasn't a **** test, this was evil.

Things she says/does that confirms she's gone: 6
Things she says/does that looks like she wants to work at it: 1

And that "1" is for all of those times she "listened" where she never used to before. And how about this? Is she enthusiastic about the books or shrugging them off? If she's excited, I'll make a 2 in that bottom score. But I'm guessing it's more like 7, huh?



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Just ordered a few of the books suggested to me and hopefully she'll read them too.


...



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Yes his needs her needs is on the way along with 2 of his other books. We had a bit of a blowout over it today but hopefully when she gets a handle on this she'll read them too.


OK, so 7 it is.

I've been on these boards a long time. Since the start of the process, about 6 years ago, that ended up making me an expert on walk-away-wives. I finally gave up about three years ago. We're still married. You probably will be too. She wants the stability of her house. Her home. Her family.

She's just not sure about you, is how I think you put it earlier. Have I missed anything that you've seen in the past 6 weeks that makes you think she even wants to try?

They don't come back from this dude. I am here for stories like yours. I seek them out. I follow them. They rarely come back.

I feel for you. Forever will be etched in my mind will be memories of the moments you are in right now where you know, deep in your heart that you've lost her forever. The love of your life. The one you were going to grow old with and watch sunsets 7 nights a week in retirement. All gone. And you had no warning. You now have no control. And you've only made it WORSE since you found out. I know THAT part too.

Am I still projecting MY situation on you, as I've been accused of in the past? Damn right I am. Because I have proven, to myself at least, that MY situation is the norm. 90+% of the time.

Go ahead and commit your very existence to those single digit odds. Just start preparing yourself for failure. It's not defeatist. It's the smart thing to do. Play the odds.

Sorry man, you will need to start letting go.


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## turnera

I'd like to say that I'm a WAW without the desire to walk away. At least not a strong enough one. I wish I wasn't married all the time. And yes, finances, home, comfort keeps me here (as well as a desire not to get into a huge war with my H). 

But I also find myself 'liking' him every time he addresses one or more of the reasons I want to walk. I viscerally react to him when he fixes something in the house, or addresses issues I have. Because that tells me that he's stepping outside HIS comfort zone for my benefit.

So I really feel that if he were to finally really address my issues with him, I would turn around my feelings and fall for him again.

I'm just saying things aren't set in stone. Each woman is an individual and we don't know what makes her tick.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Perhaps I'm a fool but I think giving her time to cool off and quitting poking the bear for a while is my best bet. That's the approach I began yesterday morning. She wasn't necessarily upset I bought the books, she's upset I didn't do it years ago and she doesn't think her reading a book is going to change her mind right now. Well years ago I never thought there was a problem. And right now every step I have taken to try and make things better has failed. I do also accept that this could very well go down in flames. I know it's not all my fault but the majority of the blame certainly lies with me. I'm going to continue to improve myself as best I can and if it blows up I'll move on. It's not at all what I want to happen and from what I've learned talking to her brother it's not what she really wants either. But she's pissed and hurt and has reason to be. She wants time to think. So I'll continue reading and learning more about myself and the mystery that is the female mind as well as making myself more attractive and confident. I started working out again once this news was sprung on me. I haven't been able to sleep past 4 or 5 in the morning so why not. I'm down 9 pounds, my gut is disappearing rapidly, and I feel fantastic physically. I was never really overweight but working a desk job I've got an extra 20 or so pounds I could stand to lose. 

And this morning before I left for work I told her I loved her and gave her a big, long hug. She hugged back. It's a start.


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## snerg

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> She says this goes back to way before we were married. Honestly back that far I don't recall much except the good times. I never saw anything really "wrong" with our marriage before she shut down. Now I know we both had major communication issues. Had I known she was feeling this way I would have snapped out of it. But it's too late for that now.


If there was no communication on her part, then this is pure bull schmidt.

No matter how poorly you did your husband job, it's still her responsibility to communicate. Last I checked, you didn't mention that you could read minds.

And if this was that big of a deal before you were married, why wasn't addressed?

So this is a huge marriage rewrite.


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## Middle of Everything

snerg said:


> If there was no communication on her part, then this is pure bull schmidt.
> 
> No matter how poorly you did your husband job, it's still her responsibility to communicate. Last I checked, you didn't mention that you could read minds.
> 
> And if this was that big of a deal before you were married, why wasn't addressed?
> 
> So this is a huge marriage rewrite.


Bingo

I VERY much agree with what @Holland has said in this thread, and I agree with this as well.

FJ40 (i loved the FJ40 my dad had by the way) is doing well in owning his mistakes. But dont get caught up in thinking its ALL on you.

You BOTH didnt take dates and romance/pursue each other.
You BOTH chose not to take vacations due to finances
You BOTH communicated poorly
You BOTH didnt find ways to spend quality time together.

But some of the things? Bullsh!t

Bringing up the way you proposed not being perfect or whatever? Give me a [email protected] break. However it happened get over it and try to remember it fondly.

I may get hammered for this but the taking care of her while sick things is VERY subjective. What kind of sick are we talking here? A cold? Rest and get over it. You arent a child and I'm not your parent. More serious things I get helping. But I have always been more of a rest and recoup on my own type. 

In closing can we not turn this into ANOTHER [email protected] gender war. The us vs them sh!t is SO old on Tam.


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## jorgegene

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Perhaps I'm a fool but I think giving her time to cool off and quitting poking the bear for a while is my best bet. That's the approach I began yesterday morning. She wasn't necessarily upset I bought the books, she's upset I didn't do it years ago and she doesn't think her reading a book is going to change her mind right now. Well years ago I never thought there was a problem. And right now every step I have taken to try and make things better has failed. I do also accept that this could very well go down in flames. I know it's not all my fault but the majority of the blame certainly lies with me. I'm going to continue to improve myself as best I can and if it blows up I'll move on. It's not at all what I want to happen and from what I've learned talking to her brother it's not what she really wants either. But she's pissed and hurt and has reason to be. She wants time to think. So I'll continue reading and learning more about myself and the mystery that is the female mind as well as making myself more attractive and confident. I started working out again once this news was sprung on me. I haven't been able to sleep past 4 or 5 in the morning so why not. I'm down 9 pounds, my gut is disappearing rapidly, and I feel fantastic physically. I was never really overweight but working a desk job I've got an extra 20 or so pounds I could stand to lose.
> 
> And this morning before I left for work I told her I loved her and gave her a big, long hug. She hugged back. It's a start.


bravo! you are thinking rightly and put yourself on track my man.

two words of advice that might be worth nothing. 

1. never go back to the 'old' you. learn from this and complete the new you and never look back. no matter what happens, you will be better for it. better for your wife or whatever future relationships and your kids and your self. like a recovered alcoholic, be ever vigilant and watch yourself and avoid your old ways.

2. i wouldn't push the huggy kissy stuff yet. be more independent and let it come more naturally from her, if it ever does. at some point, you will know, but let it come from her.


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## MachoMcCoy

turnera said:


> So I really feel that if he were to finally really address my issues with him, I would turn around my feelings and fall for him again.


Sure, Turnera. Anything's possible. And if you wait ANOTHER 25 years it really could happen.

Turnera is exactly the rule I'm talking about. She's been gone for a long time. She's not going back.

Just prepare, my friend.


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## MachoMcCoy

Did she bring up dating other people yet?


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## See_Listen_Love

Holland said:


> For their to be such a thing as this (alleged) WAW pandemic then there is at the same time a pandemic of men like the OP that have ignored their wives for so long that they up and leave.


It is a surprise so many women stay in a state of desparation all their lives...

At the same time I see a lot of women bullying their husbands, who sadly are showing the same desparate clinging onto their situation like there is no alternative.

Only 10% seem to live a long term happy life in their marriages :frown2:


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## 85GT-79FJ40

jorgegene said:


> bravo! you are thinking rightly and put yourself on track my man.
> 
> two words of advice that might be worth nothing.
> 
> 1. never go back to the 'old' you. learn from this and complete the new you and never look back. no matter what happens, you will be better for it. better for your wife or whatever future relationships and your kids and your self. like a recovered alcoholic, be ever vigilant and watch yourself and avoid your old ways.
> 
> 2. i wouldn't push the huggy kissy stuff yet. be more independent and let it come more naturally from her, if it ever does. at some point, you will know, but let it come from her.



No definitely not going to fall into the same rut again if this works out. I have wanted to do better for a long time I just for some reason didn't. I took her for granted and it wasn't until she almost left me that I realized just how much I love her. It's taken me a while to come to terms with the fact that it might not and if it does it's going to take time. A lot of this is going to depend on me improving who I am however if things do work out we're going to have a serious discussion about communicating with one another. I am not a mind reader and she can be quite stubborn. But over the last few days she's really been acting a lot happier in general and talking with me normally. Which is a big change from barely speaking to me. When I went to say goodbye this morning She actually put her arms in hug-accepting position when I got close. I haven't been that happy in weeks. I know I need to take it slow and walk on eggshells but I'm leaning towards thinking there may be a positive outcome.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Well it just got really real. I saw something on her facebook page I didn't like and kind of freaked out. No she's not cheating or even thinking of seeing someone else but I suspected it and totally set her off. Left work shaking I was freaked out so much. She wouldn't pick up the phone so I called her sister who told me she's on my side but of course has to be supportive of her sister. She and their brother both told me something was VERY wrong with her lately. So did another friend of hers. after I got off the phone with her sister I called her again and she picked up. We proceeded to get into it a little then I felt OK about it and told her I would see her in a few hours and would give her some space. Well I had already put in for the vacation time for the afternoon and I decided to go see my best friend and talk. But there's no cell service there. She was trying to call me. Didn't leave any voicemails. As soon as I got into range I had 4 text messages saying she couldn't believe I left work and to never call or text her again and that she wanted a divorce. And that her and my daughter wouldn't be home tonight. So I tried calling. Straight to voicemail. Then my 8 year old calls back and tells me they are going to her cousin's basketball game. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail tomorrow. But it sure looks like this is going south quick.


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## farsidejunky

Don't feed into it. If she acts like a runner, don't chase. Calmly explain your truth and don't argue hers.

What did you see that freaked you out?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## JohnA

Take time to @DayOne thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/reconciliation/221290-day-one.html

He got his wife back, rebuilt hmself and got ahead at work in the process. 

DayOne did not have children but his wife actually moved out,


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## JohnA

DayOne had a lot of bumps and a lot days he just lost it. 

Take a deep breath and relax. Many states require a waiting period. Also deciding custody can take time. 

In the meanwhile work with her Sibs but take care to keep your tone upbeat and positive. With them only share patience and support towards her. You can mention something is hurtful, but follow up you understand where it is coming from, and how you are determined to heal the marriage. 

Understand there are somethings they will not tell, but they will support the marriage when talking with her. 

I thought you posted het siblings have noticed big changes in her and are concerned ?


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## JohnA

Keep reading and working on yourself and your marriage. In the meantime prepare for a divorce and what post divorce will be. 

Check out this site for a quick reference for you state State Specific Divorce and Custody Information - Divorce Source

Also note most stares place the welfare of the child first. The first consideration is stability, so look for a place within her school district. Study each point and try to position yourself to get the most time you can. 

Finally why did you wait 8 to 10 years. As to MC go even if she will not. First you gain a lot of insight and second it shows you might be more interesting in your daughter then er mother. (be sure one session covers co-parenting)


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Yesterday I noticed my cousin had commented on something on her facebook page in our email. I'm not on facebook, I know a few people who's lives it has ruined (funny huh) so I never went on there. She rarely did either. But my sister in law posts a lot of pictures of our niece on there so I occasionally look at my wife's wall. I clicked on her actual page and saw one of those stick figure things which apparently auto-generate that said something to effect girl likes boy, girl tells boy instead of posting hints on facebook. Thanks to macho-whatever I freaked out. I have always trusted her even through all this but the timing of that post was a week or so before this all started. I didn't see the post a few later where she said she had a man that wasn't perfect but she loved him and he took care of her.... So I lost it and left work. I was so upset I was physically shaking and was honestly afraid I was going to cause an accident. So I pulled into a parking lot and tried to call her. No answer. Tried again, no answer. So I called her sister. She confirmed there was nobody else and we talked for about 20 minutes. She said she was on my side of this and wasn't sure what was going on in her sister's head. But that she of course had to be there for her. So I got off the phone with her and called my wife back. Second time she picked up. She was just watching a movie at home on her day off. I told her what I saw and she insisted there was nobody else and she just wanted space and we talked for a while and I got over-emotional and began telling her how much I loved her and how the future would be different and that I know somewhere in there the girl that fell in love with me was still in there. I got my **** together and told her I was going back to work. But I didn't. I was still very shaken up. So I went to my best friend's house and we talked for a few hours. During that time she was trying to get in touch with me and couldn't because there's no cell service there. So she freaked and texted me never to call or text her again and she wanted a divorce and they wouldn't be home tonight. She did have her daughter call me and they had gone to her cousin's basketball game. Hopefully it was just her overreacting. 

I never knew there was a problem. I was always her rock, her voice of reason. Yes I took on way too many projects, I work out of town so I can't be with them all the time. I've wanted to quit my job and do something locally for years but we would lose everything with the loss of pay. My wife is one of six children. I've talked to two of them who are closest to her and they can't believe what she's doing and think there's something wrong with her. They've told her we need to go see a therapist, I have told her this. She flat out refuses. Her and my daughter did come home at about 10 last night. I put my daughter in our bed with my wife and slept on the couch. My daughter still has no idea. Everyone we both know who I've talked to about this have told me to hang in there and that she's going through a midlife crisis and will eventually come out of it. I sure hope so as even through all of this I still love her. And I know somewhere in there she loves me too. The problem is she is very stubborn and may ruin her life instead of admitting it.


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## alexm

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> So I called her sister. She confirmed there was nobody else and we talked for about 20 minutes. She said she was on my side of this and wasn't sure what was going on in her sister's head. But that she of course had to be there for her. So I got off the phone with her and called my wife back.
> -------
> My wife is one of six children. I've talked to two of them who are closest to her and they can't believe what she's doing and think there's something wrong with her. They've told her we need to go see a therapist, I have told her this.


Do not do this. Stop talking to her sisters and family, or even friends. Trust me - it never works out in your favour, and it'll piss your wife off in a big way, eventually and become a bone of contention for her at some point.

Regardless of how you feel about your in-laws (and they you), they are hers, and are on her side, and WILL be on her side. They may try to "talk some sense into her" early on with this, but they have no sway. They're not there, in your house, living the life you and your wife are.

Not to mention it makes you look weak. Your wife only sees you trying to use HER family as pawns or a way to gather information for your purposes.

Trust me, stop contact with her family in regards to this. It'll make it worse if you continue. I made this same mistake with my ex-wife's sister when I was in an eerily similar position as you many years ago. She "wanted" to help and be there for me, initially, but my ex wife was not at all pleased, and my former SIL eventually reached a point where she was very uncomfortable with it all.

Often people who are put in the middle like that want to take both sides with the issue - which is easy when not all of the information is available to them. Her sister(s) likely only see what's going on on the surface right now.

In fact, she probably does think her sister (your wife) is over-reacting, or having a mid-life crisis, or whatever - just as my former SIL did with my ex wife at first. But it won't take much for your wife to convince her/them that she's doing what's best for her, and before you know it, they're behind her 100% and you'll feel a sense of betrayal - not just from your wife, but from her family and friends, as well.

Don't set yourself up for more of that. Stop contact with her family and friends in regards to your marital issues. Talk to your wife, your own friends and family, or a marriage counsellor - NOT the people who are invested in your wifes life and not yours.

I'm sure they're shocked (and maybe even appalled) at what's going on currently - but they won't be in time.

I, and every other man or woman who's been broken up with, left, or divorced for any reason, are now just memories - sometimes distant ones - to their family members. They have no deep emotional attachment to you, but they do to their own family members. And guess what? If you and your wife divorce and she moves on and remarries, they'll accept (and perhaps even love) her new husband. Loyalties lay where they lay, and it's always with family first.


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## farsidejunky

Get ahold of yourself. Can't control you? Freaking out? If you want to be someone's rock, how can they possibly see you in that way when you can't manage your own stress and self?

You need to read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T's by Wayne Levine. 

Start there.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## 85GT-79FJ40

New bombshell dropped this morning. There is someone else. Nothing's happened but it's a thought in her mind. Apparently she had a dream about him holding her the night before she dropped the bomb on me. She's not sure what to do and wants time to think. And of course still insists she doesn't love me any more and I broke her heart little by little over the years. But she hasn't totally written me and our family off yet. So it's time for me to pull myself together and wait and see what happens. I know now I can do SO much better but I may never get the chance with her. I just hope that if it does go south and she does move forward with him that he makes her happy. If it's a trainwreck like all the other situations I have heard of like this from friends and coworkers she would be miserable the rest of her life. She jumped directly from a doomed relationship into one with me 20 years ago. That's just the way she's wired. And I think she knows that and it's part of the reason she's so confused. I have no idea who it is or if they are married, single, or what. I don't want to know. I just want her back. I wish those damn books would show up already!!!


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## farsidejunky

She's likely lying.

Blowing up a marriage on a dream? Do you hear yourself?

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## Thound

But she hasn't totally written me and our family off yet. So it's time for me to pull myself together and wait and see what happens. 

In other words, she needs you to hang around in case things don't work out with the other guy AKA plan B.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Thound said:


> But she hasn't totally written me and our family off yet. So it's time for me to pull myself together and wait and see what happens.
> 
> In other words, she needs you to hang around in case things don't work out with the other guy AKA plan B.


I really don't believe that's the case. Honestly with my wife's schedule she couldn't even squeeze in an affair even if she wanted to. I may be a fool but for now I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. If it ends it ends. I don't want it to but I have to accept that. And I can use the knowledge I'm gaining on this should I choose to have other relationships in the future.


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## farsidejunky

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I really don't believe that's the case. Honestly with my wife's schedule she couldn't even squeeze in an affair even if she wanted to. I may be a fool but for now I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. If it ends it ends. I don't want it to but I have to accept that. And I can use the knowledge I'm gaining on this should I choose to have other relationships in the future.


You totally have the right attitude regarding your individual growth.

However, you need to take a very close look at what is happening with a potential affair partner with your wife. The way that you handle a walk away wife versus a wayward wife are polar opposites.

You need to know what you are up against. 
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Lilac23

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I really don't believe that's the case. Honestly with my wife's schedule she couldn't even squeeze in an affair even if she wanted to. I may be a fool but for now I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. If it ends it ends. I don't want it to but I have to accept that. And I can use the knowledge I'm gaining on this should I choose to have other relationships in the future.


It's probably someone from work or someone who is somehow involved with one of your daughter's activities, schoolteacher, coach, etc. Someone she sees regularly that you wouldn't be aware of or suspicious about.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Here it is 3am and I'm wide awake again thinking about this. She won't tell me who it is but it's someone she's known longer than me that she runs into from time to time. She has been very clear that NOTHING has happened and she isn't sure if she even wants it to. She's trying to figure out where she wants her future to go and our daughters stability comes first. Which I agree on. And it's also good in the respect that even without our mountain of debt that's caused so much strain on our relationship neither one of us can afford to support her if we live apart. I also told her today that ultimately I wanted her to be happy with the choice she makes. And she said starting a new relationship would be devastating to our daughter and it would be. I'm trying to be strong and work on myself and spend more time with my daughter. I know she can fall in love with me again she just has to want to do it. And if she gives me that chance I can't go back to my old self. And I don't want to. I didn't like him either. If it does come to an end I just have to move on and be there for my kid. But it will be a mess.


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## eric1

If you'd quit defending her for a second you'd do a quick investigation that will likely tell you that it was more than a dream. You don't blow up a marriage over a simple dream. Dreams are not 'aha!' Moments.

And stop saying she doesn't have the time to have an affair. She does. Everyone does. At the bottom rung, an emotional affair can be run thousands of miles away with a few texts a day.

You need to find out who this guy is. The reason - and only reason - she is 'trying to work it out' is because she is cake eating and he is likely involved as well.

You need to VAR up her car, look at the phone bill if you can and monitor if the phone leaves her side for more than a microsecond.


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## manfromlamancha

So what exactly is she saying the situation is with this OM ? She says its a "thought" in her head - what does that mean ?

Has he expressed any interest in her in any form ? They meet regularly ? She has known him a long time so has he expressed interest in the past ? What exactly has been said to each other ?

"Nothing has happened" wouldn't cut the mustard with me - something has obviously happened to make it even a thought in her mind. So what exactly ? Do you have the truth ?


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## turnera

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Her and my daughter did come home at about 10 last night. I put my daughter in our bed with my wife and slept on the couch.


Why?


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## turnera

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I really don't believe that's the case. Honestly with my wife's schedule she couldn't even squeeze in an affair even if she wanted to. I may be a fool but for now I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. If it ends it ends. I don't want it to but I have to accept that. And I can use the knowledge I'm gaining on this should I choose to have other relationships in the future.


Of course she can. It could something as simple as exchanging 'good morning!' with each other. It could be hooking up in a coat closet for 2 minutes. There's a poster here who had a less-than-60-seconds 'affair' with a guy and three years later it's still wreaking havoc on the marriage. Don't be naive.

You need to be monitoring her phone and computer and gather evidence. Whatever you do, DO NOT MOVE OUT! And go back to your bed tonight. Leaving the bed is beta male and NOT attractive.

And make sure you make it clear to her that if you DO divorce, she will be bringing HALF of the debt with her for HER to pay off. Many women live in a fantasy world, and think you're just gonna let her waltz into the sunset while you take care of everything. Knowing she'll be in debt MIGHT make her pause a little bit, which might give you more time to work this out.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Well things are looking up. I wound up back in our bed early sunday morning and woke up and made breakfast like I usually do. She ate with me (hasn't in a while now) and we had normal conversation but she was cold. I actually joined facebook saturday and she kind of freaked out and told me if I posted anything about us being the perfect couple she would have papers this week. I assured her that wasn't happening. yesterday we spent the entire day apart. She went with my daughter and grandma shopping for the day and I went to a friends to work on my car. I got home about 8 and she was looking at my page and all the photos I had posted and she was VERY happy. We talked and laughed for about an hour, even touched multiple times. It was normal. Then we went to bed. I said goodnight and got a reply, hadn't had one in weeks. About 4AM she wakes up not feeling well. I was awake and I got her water, got her something to eat, and rubbed her back until she calmed down. Then she started crying. I told her I loved her and I was there to help. Probably the wrong thing to say but we both calmed down and went back to bed. This morning I told her I enjoyed last night and she said she did too and if I had always been like that we wouldn't be in this spot. I gave her a big hug and told her I was changing for myself and if it helped her put the pieces back together all the better. She began sobbing and I just held her. Then she had to pull herself together before my daughter woke up. I said goodbye and gave my daughter a kiss and went to work. 

My wife is a planner. She never does anything impulsive and always has to think things through before acting. She's very afraid of hurting my daughter and her professional reputation. There has been no physical affair. I think she feels extremely guilty she has had these feelings and pushing me away has been a way for her to deal with that. And trying to get me mad enough so I blow up and leave so it will be all my fault. That's not happening. I think yesterday was very positive.


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## Thound

Do not pursue her. Do not bring up the relationship. Do not be a doormat. You are making yourself look weak, and women are not attracted to weak men. Believe me I know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bankshot1993

Well OP, good luck. I have to admit that I see a few flags that could go either way but I think you're dead on the money about guilt and pushing you away in hopes that you will make the tough decision that she can't because as you said, than its your fault not hers.

Maybe its midlife or maybe just bored in your current relationship and wondering what change would be like but it seems odd to me that there isn't a little something more that has fueled the sudden interest in the new man. If this is an old friend that she just occasionally sees every now and then, what has changed to inspire new feelings? Are they talking more now? are they seeing more of each other now? What has developed recently that she is now thinking of him more romantically than before?

You know her better than any of us so obviously you would know if there was something off, so only you can answer any of the questions posed above but before you ask them make sure you take off your blinders and are prepared for the answers.

Good luck.


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## MRR

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> New bombshell dropped this morning. There is someone else. Nothing's happened but it's a thought in her mind. Apparently she had a dream about him holding her the night before she dropped the bomb on me. She's not sure what to do and wants time to think. And of course still insists she doesn't love me any more and I broke her heart little by little over the years. But she hasn't totally written me and our family off yet. So it's time for me to pull myself together and wait and see what happens. I know now I can do SO much better but I may never get the chance with her. I just hope that if it does go south and she does move forward with him that he makes her happy. If it's a trainwreck like all the other situations I have heard of like this from friends and coworkers she would be miserable the rest of her life. She jumped directly from a doomed relationship into one with me 20 years ago. That's just the way she's wired. And I think she knows that and it's part of the reason she's so confused. I have no idea who it is or if they are married, single, or what. I don't want to know. I just want her back. I wish those damn books would show up already!!!


ding. ding. ding.

my wife told me ILYBINILWY, then three days later at MC admitted she wanted divorce. the next day i check the phone records and she had been on the phone with some guy for an hour about 5 days earlier-- right before the ILYBINILWY. 

THEN...when I asked her whose phone number was xxxxxxx, she lied right to my face. She wanted the divorce but I filed. Best thing I have ever done. 

Dont be her 'backup plan'. Do not play the 'please choose me' game. Respect yourself. All this nonsense about things that have been going on 'since before we were married' were just her rationalizing wanting out. My wife did the same thing. 

Do not let her think you are going to sit around and wait for her to come back to you. Weakness. Take your power back.


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## Thound

What kind of peraon were you when she met you? Were you decisive? Were you a strong, confident, unpredictble? Maybe figure out what changed about you. My wife told me once she felt like I was one of her children. Does she feel the same way? Are you needy? Does she make the decisions about the relarionship? 

I would read Married Mans Sex Life Primer. Its not about sex. Dont let her know you are reading it. You need to detach emotionally and start doing the 180. Search the 180 here at TAM. And for the record Im no longer her child. My wife wanted a man not a child. She wanted a leader not a follower. 
.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MRR

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Well things are looking up. I wound up back in our bed early sunday morning and woke up and made breakfast like I usually do. She ate with me (hasn't in a while now) and we had normal conversation but she was cold. I actually joined facebook saturday and she kind of freaked out and told me if I posted anything about us being the perfect couple she would have papers this week. I assured her that wasn't happening. yesterday we spent the entire day apart. She went with my daughter and grandma shopping for the day and I went to a friends to work on my car. I got home about 8 and she was looking at my page and all the photos I had posted and she was VERY happy. We talked and laughed for about an hour, even touched multiple times. It was normal. Then we went to bed. I said goodnight and got a reply, hadn't had one in weeks. About 4AM she wakes up not feeling well. I was awake and I got her water, got her something to eat, and rubbed her back until she calmed down. Then she started crying. I told her I loved her and I was there to help. Probably the wrong thing to say but we both calmed down and went back to bed. This morning I told her I enjoyed last night and she said she did too and if I had always been like that we wouldn't be in this spot. I gave her a big hug and told her I was changing for myself and if it helped her put the pieces back together all the better. She began sobbing and I just held her. Then she had to pull herself together before my daughter woke up. I said goodbye and gave my daughter a kiss and went to work.
> 
> My wife is a planner. She never does anything impulsive and always has to think things through before acting. She's very afraid of hurting my daughter and her professional reputation. There has been no physical affair. I think she feels extremely guilty she has had these feelings and pushing me away has been a way for her to deal with that. And trying to get me mad enough so I blow up and leave so it will be all my fault. That's not happening. I think yesterday was very positive.


Fool's gold. 

She is trying to get along to appease you. This way she doesnt have to feel stressed and constant tension just being at home, and in the mean time can explore her feelings, and more likely an actual relationship, with the guy she is interested in without upsetting you. She knows as long as you think 'things are looking up' you will not rock the boat. 

Read that part again about your wife being interested in another guy. Do not discuss this with her. Do not ask her who it is. But do KNOW that your wife is interested in another man.


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## Thound

Read that part again about your wife being interested in another guy. Do not discuss this with her. Do not ask her who it is. But do KNOW that your wife is interested in another man.


You know this to be true, because she told you so.


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## threelittlestars

Oh honey...you just don't get it. 

Alright from the outside looking in and and learning about affairs and EA's (Emotional affairs) and everything in between i want to try to open your eyes. (I don’t know everything, but i believe i know this.)

First you are deluded. You think your wife has no time for an affair. BS. She has time to get her emotions involved enough to claim to be confused that is enough to constitute an affair at the very least EMOTIONAL. When you invest emotional feelings in another person women often though not all start to pull away emotionally from their partners. 

Secondly, she runs into him from time to time. Something has been said or DONE to make her think this guy is an option. Otherwise she would be quiet and mortified that her crush is known. 

Thirdly…She is controlling what you can and cannot say about your feelings on social media by threatening divorce, Honestly she is keeping you from a support system there. If more people knew about this there are more people to tell you that your WIFE is currently the problem, and she does not want that. so she emotionally blackmails you. pretty low there man. 

You are not stupid, you are in denial and in shock. You love your wife and you REALLY don't want to lose her. I have seen it before. 
You find yourself saying things to protect her from anyone that could say anything bad. (I know her, she would never do this to me. She is really PERFECT..bla bla bla Im the bad husband,etc.) this is you trying to have something to (fix). You have caught on that you can’t fix your wife if she is broken so you look at yourself and everything you perceive you have done wrong and in turn blame yourself for everything. Because you feel that you can fix yourself. 

She probably told you she wanted a divorce back a few weeks ago because she wanted to pursue this other man physically and wanted to ease her guilt some by telling you she wanted out of the marriage. Perhaps she has enough self respect not to cheat on you physically but she IS cheating on you in her head. Lied to you for what two or three weeks about the potential of another man. Sir YOU CANT BELIEVE A WORD SHE HAS SAID. 

You think you were a terrible husband. Sure you had places where you could have been better. Did she talk to you about it a lot, her issues? Did she ever say that she might want a divorce if you don't pay more attention or do better when she is sick? (On this i sympathize with your wife. My husband was a jerk while i was pregnant with the first two kids, then he was cheating on me when i was pregnant with the third.) so i get your wife there. That **** festers and resentment on my side grew for him before i even KNEW he cheated. 

So here is my two cents. She is wanting to explore another relationship without dumping you. YOU ARE PLAN B. (you have been weighed and measured and found wanting, but she is not ready to toss you out) in her eyes she is not happy with you and is ACTIVELY looking to replace you. Your behavior was not a real issue to her till she found someone else and maybe felt they were interested in her… Suddenly the rewrite of the marriage happens. They will claim they never loved you, or don’t love you like that anymore. bla bla. It all their own mental rationalization for their own behavior. 

Your actions in that instance should NOT BE HOVERING. you are hovering and trying to do everything to keep her. Truth be told she is looking at your actions as TOO LITTLE TOO LATE and you already lost her to this fantasy other man. You are already ****ed man! Stop trying so hard because IT WONT WORK. That is the theme of the thread of responses. They want you to slow down. Stop trying to be the best husband. You are just a man, and flawed. 

She is a ego kibble hunter is my guess if poetry works for her.... Seriously don't inflate her ego right now. She wants another man. Write a sonnet about that! Write a sonnet about the love of your life loving another man. write about the shrew she is becoming! 

What is your wife doing now to help your marriage?….NOTHING. absolutely nothing. WHY? because she is cold and heartless now and just moving through the motions. (This is my perception, though i don't know her i can't help the impression of her that i get reading your posts.) 

She is in an AFFAIR…YOU NEED TO GET THAT MAN. quit making excuses or allowances for her behavior to you, and QUIT thinking she has no time for an affair. SHE HAS TIME. 

So you need to dig, you need to find the evidence that YOU need so you know what is right. 
You claim you don't Think this or you don't think she would do that....You need to stop THINKING, because you have your blinders on when it comes to her. YOU DONT KNOW HER AT ALL ANYMORE. YOU NEED TO ACT. 

And by act, try a VAR (voice activated recorder) in the car, Put put Dr phone through her cell and recover her texts, and STOP talking to your INLAWS. their loyalty is NOT to you. They will lie even if you don't think they will. 

yes you are naive, but so was i. You need facts, not feelings. Find the facts so you can sort the feelings.


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## Thound

Wow TLS I stand in awe of you. You brought down the houae with that post. OP please read TLS post several times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MRR

Also, FYI it sounds like her sister is aware that she is interested in someone else, and the sister likely knows a lot more about how far along this affair is. Of course, the sister is not going to share that with you, because....she is the sister.


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## Slow Hand

Good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for. I suspected my wife was cheating on me due to many strange behaviors and my gut was screaming at me. Never have found anything though, not sure what that's all about. 

I have since recovered deleted text from her phone and found nothing, scoured the phone bill text and phone calls for the past 8 months, put a var in her car on 19 separate occasions for and nothing. I'm glad I haven't found anything, it's not for a lack of looking either.

I've come to believe that perhaps my wife was planning on walking away, not sure if there really was an OM or not, but it sure sucked that I had to go through all the motions of being cheated on, even the mind movies. Those suck bad. I even contemplated taking my own life, never done that before. Slowly, I'm getting better, I just want to be able to believe her and trust her, what's wrong with me?

I've decided to just let the whole thing go, she's changed now and isn't exhibiting those behaviors anymore. At one point she was rewriting our marriage, as if it was so bad, I stopped her in her tracks though. Told her to quit lying and grow up. She tried saying I didn't let her have friends and that she was going to start going out without me, WTH? I did the 180, but she had broken into my office and took pictures of my screens and knew I was doing the 180. 

I beleive the turning point for us, was when she thought I was taking a client to lunch, she got really upset over it and didn't like that thought at all, she was very jealous and beat me up physically. Since then, she started showing interest in me again, I guess it just took her believing another woman wanted me, to see what she has, not sure. 

I did a lot of what's recommended to you and it really helped, I had no idea I had become so beta. It was weird, there were lots of signs that she wanted me to be her man, to lead her and our family. Since I've started doing that, as simple as where we will eat, the sex is daily, sometimes a few times a day on our days off too. 

We've been getting along so much better, but the gut still yells at me here and there, it really sucks, I need closure. It's not as frequent as before, but still there, I hope it eventually goes away or I find out the truth one way or the other. 

Stay strong, you got this!


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## manfromlamancha

manfromlamancha said:


> So what exactly is she saying the situation is with this OM ? She says its a "thought" in her head - what does that mean ?
> 
> Has he expressed any interest in her in any form ? They meet regularly ? She has known him a long time so has he expressed interest in the past ? What exactly has been said to each other ?
> 
> "Nothing has happened" wouldn't cut the mustard with me - something has obviously happened to make it even a thought in her mind. So what exactly ? Do you have the truth ?


OP, the questions above still stand ….


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## turnera

Have you bought a VAR to put under her car seat yet?


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## eric1

I'm going to keep on asking becaus you keep saying with such certainly... how do you know she's not in an affair. 

Go through the Infidelity forum here. 98% of the wives there also told their husbands that they were not having an affair. I am not saying that she is having an affair, I am saying that you need evidence beyond her word that she is not having an affair. Almost every red flag in the book is out there, it's something that you simply must do.

You must do it if you want to stay in the marriage since you need all of the information possible in order to make a decision. If there are other items out there in addition to infidelity, then we'll ask them, but for now that's the big one that needs to be hammered out.


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## 3Xnocharm

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I really don't believe that's the case. Honestly with my wife's schedule she couldn't even squeeze in an affair even if she wanted to. I may be a fool but for now I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. If it ends it ends. I don't want it to but I have to accept that. And I can use the knowledge I'm gaining on this should I choose to have other relationships in the future.


You SERIOUSLY need to get over this denial mindset! Take it from someone who has actually had an affair...you MAKE time for an affair! Even if all you can squeeze in is 10 minutes at a time...that's what you do, whether its a physical affair and your are squeezing in a quickie in the car, or its emotional, and you are taking the time to make a phone call. Stop fooling yourself on this part! 

Honestly, this one surprised me, I wasn't getting the vibe that there would be another man in the picture...damn, Im slipping.


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## Evinrude58

Some good advice in this thread. 
Almost needs to be in a book.

One would think that with her crying and all, that she would be thinking like the OP wishes she was thinking. I saw all the tears in very similar cases. When I was out of the room, however, she was sexting what she referred to as her "twitter crushes".

It's not what it seems, OP, but I wish it was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Well it turns out you are right. We had a LONG talk tonight and here I am again, 3AM and can't sleep. I'm so heartbroken I don't know what to do next. There is no physical affair but she's been in communication with this guy (it's someone she's known on a professional basis for about 12 years) in a romantic way for about 6 weeks. She hasn't acted on it yet and she says that he doesn't want to break up our marriage if she's willing to work on it. He thinks it's very wrong but of course being a guy if she's single he'll oblige her. But she hasn't made up her mind yet. If it wasn't for our daughter she told me flat out she would be gone and would have tried to have a real relationship with him. I tried to make the point that if someone is in their 40's and hasn't been in a relationship for 12 years there is something wrong. I also tried to make the point that neither of us can afford to live on our own and support our daughter, especially not her. So she's remaining cold to me and isn't acting on him other than texts and occasional phone conversations (which she said I could read the texts if I wanted, but I don't want to pour salt on the wounds now that I know) and she isn't sure yet if she wants to try to make our marriage work. I'm VERY concerned she'll divorce me, screw up our kid, ruin both of us financially, and then find that it won't work out after all. Pretty much all the divorced couples I know that's how it played out. Husbands come out fine, wives are miserable. Through all this though I still love her and would do anything to get her back. But I need to get control of myself first and foremost. And I need sleep. Last night was the first night I've had a full nights sleep in weeks. It's not all me for sure. I wasn't the greatest husband but I would NEVER do this to her.


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## Sparta

So what do you think he should do.? Divorce her now... At least get the papers filed doesn't mean you have to go through with it. You can always have it stopped. Why would you want to be Plan B anyways she's having phone calls and text messages in front of you. WOW she no respect for you. by your actions already and your denial it's safe to say you won't do anything that people tell you around here, so go through it the hard way most people do. I'll tell you what I won't have no woman or wife of mine sending text messages and having phone calls with her lover and my house. Sorry you're going through this do something about it. Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wizernow

I think you should man-up and lay down some boundaries. Your wife made a life-long commitment to you, and you should tell her you expect her to live up to it. 

I think the best chance you have to save the marriage is for her to believe you are willing to end the marriage.

Now that she has admitted to an emotional affair, you should expose it to friends and family. This dark secret of hers seems ok to her with her rationalizations. If it's exposed to the light of day, others in your and her life will see it for what it truly is (as do almost all of the posters here) low down, no good, dirty cheating. Does she value looking like a "good girl" to her friends?

Another point, as long as she is in contact with the other man, she will have great difficulty breaking her emotional tie to him. You should man-up, and demand him or me. Have her break contact. c If you don't you will just have to live in limbo as second fiddle, plan B. Even if she tells you no, you have a better chance with her in the long run if you detach and let her see how life would be without you supporting her. 

So get some self-respect, get a support system, tell her her having another man is unacceptable, and EXPOSE. 

I'm the victim of a 5 year affair from my wife, btw, and we are in recovery now.


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## eric1

See a lawyer NOW. 

Stop playing 'pick me!' - she has already made her choice.

She is trickle truthing you. But look at it this way, she is currently in an affair, physical or not 

"He doesn't think that this is right" - bull****. He knows exactly what he is doing and your wife is a naive idiot. There is only ONE reason why a guy wastes time like this.

YOU NEED TO GET A VAR INTO HER CAR.

If she wants to live there YOU NEED TO NOT BE A DOORMAT AND DEMAND IMMEDIATE AND UNCONDITIONAL NO CONTACT


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## wizernow

Your wife is "in the fog"... and you are in shock and emotional turmoil. I really feel for you. 

But you must realize you cannot control her. What is your ultimate sense of security? Your marriage, family? If it isn't Jesus Christ, the Lord of the Universe, then your hope is in shifting sand. You may do everything right, and you still cannot control her.

I feel for you. You will be in turmoil for a couple of weeks at least. The foundations of your life have cracked. Your trust has been shattered. I feel for you.

Another good site is Marriage Builders. Lot's of good articles by the auther of "His Needs, Her Needs". Since you are waiting for the books, you can start there. But you are getting great advice here.to Just open your mind and be willing to change your thinking.

You are in love with an idea of who you thought your wife was. She IS NOT THAT PERSON. The only way that person comes back (if ever) is if she somehow breaks out of the affair fog. She needs to be EXPOSED (tell her close friends, your and her family, possibly even her employer) and DON"T tell her you are thinking of this. Do you have a church or pastor? Call your pastor. And she needs to break off all contact with this guy. You should demand this of her.


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## ConanHub

Was going to say she was in an affair.

That is why she didn't want you posting anything happy about your marriage on FB.

She didn't want to betray her lover.

Do the 180. Expose and serve her with papers.

You had a part in the downfall of your marriage but her affair is 100% her fault.

Confront this OM and tell him to get the hell out of your life. Expose him as well.

You can let your WW know you want to be married to her but will accept nothing but 100% effort on her part if you are trying as well.

Tell her to grow the hell up and sign the divorce papers or honor her vows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manfromlamancha

OK this is a little clearer now.

Here is what you need to understand first of all:



She has slept with him. A woman will not initiate the end of her marriage on a whim without trying out the next partner in all respects - character, sex, habits, finance etc.


They have been playing this game a lot longer than you think. He has been hitting on her for 12 years - not sure when the sex started (could have been 6 weeks ago when she says they were talking "romantically" or even before) but it certainly ramped up about a month ago when she decided to give you the ILYBNILWY speech.


She is making her affair partner (and herself) out to be noble - do not believe for a minute he wants her to repair her marriage because of noble reasons. It might have been more like why can't I continue to sleep with you while he supports you ? Why destroy your support and gravy train ? Why make things more difficult for me ? She is also trying to blame you for the affair even to the extent of rewriting marital history if she needs to.


What it boils down to is she is a liar, a cheater and a disrespectful one at that too - carrying on with a business associate under your nose and trying to make you feel responsible for it.


You are right in that the financial implications will hit her later. Right now she is probably thinking that lover boy will help her out financially. In any case she is keeping you around as Plan B just in case things don't work out - but she is definitely getting to eat her cake and keep it.


You need to:




Do the 180 to help yourself detach. Get ready to lose her - you cannot win anything unless you are ready to lose her (the 180 will help with this).


See her for what she is and see this for what it is. Do not accept any blame for the affair - you may be responsible for 50% or your marriage problems but are 0% responsible for the affair. And the affair is not a mistake or a lapse or anything else - it is a wanton, malicious act on her behalf.


Consult an attorney and get your financial and other protective ducks in a row.


File for D even if you think you might not go through with it later.


Tell her immediately that if she even wants to think of continuing a dialogue with you she has to drop all contact with the POSOM. You need to tell the POSOM that you are on to him and warn him to stay away (only if she first agrees to the NC). Then you want to see all communications and as far back as it went. In short you want the whole truth (no trickle truth) to see if this was the only time, how long it went on, what actually happened so far and she has to be prepared to write out a timeline as well be ready to take a polygraph test. Any hesitation on her part and it should be over.


Do not romanticise this situation and act on it like you would be dealing with the plague or something else that is seriously dangerous to your health.


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## Thound

Right now it is critical that you need to be strong and confident even if you have to fake it. She needs to know you will not share her with anyone, and if she decides to leave, you will be fine. No begging, and please dont threaten suicide. Dont show any affection, dont talk about the marriage. Stay upbeat and positive. Hit the gym. Lift weights eat right. When you start looking good you will feel bettter about yourself and you will be more confident.

I promise if you stay positive and confident, and she still decides to leave women will be contacting you. There are a lot of good women out there looking for a good man, and I think you are a good man.

There is no way you can make her love you
all you can do is take care of yourswlf and your child.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## threelittlestars

Oh my dear man, Im going to take this morning and read over the thread and read over your most recent post. 

I feel you need to do something...and soon. You DO NEED SLEEP. and food. Don't forget nourishment.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Thound said:


> Right now it is critical that you need to be strong and confident even if you have to fake it. She needs to know you will not share her with anyone, and if she decides to leave, you will be fine. No begging, and please dont threaten suicide. Dont show any affection, dont talk about the marriage. Stay upbeat and positive. Hit the gym. Lift weights eat right. When you start looking good you will feel bettter about yourself and you will be more confident.
> 
> I promise if you stay positive and confident, and she still decides to leave women will be contacting you. There are a lot of good women out there looking for a good man, and I think you are a good man.
> 
> There is no way you can make her love you
> all you can do is take care of yourswlf and your child.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I lost it last night emotionally and she was genuinely worried about me. Honestly I'm very worried about her. I'm a guy, I know others that have been in this position and the guys always come out OK. I don't know of one of the wives who aren't a complete mess now. I told her this and I probably shouldn't have. I also pleaded with her to stop contact but she said if she had to choose now she would chose him. She flat out-insists there has been no physical contact. She won't tell me who it is. 

This morning I went to my doctor and had an initial meeting with a therapist. I'm now on medication for my anxiety (which is big cause of my marriage problems anyhow) and got some sleeping pills. I know I'll come out of this OK. I have been getting back in shape and my wife actually commented on my abs this morning. I'm a fairly good looking guy and I'm nice. I'm not into sports either. I know I could move on. But I genuinely love my wife and want our family to stay together. She's the one. She actually said last night if she had seen the amount of love I was pouring out earlier we wouldn't be in this situation. I'm getting sick of the mind games but I also don't want to call her bluff and blow everything up. Once I get a handle on myself I'm sure I've got this. One way or the other. And his needs her needs as well as 2 of the same doctor's other books are on the way.


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## farsidejunky

Why did you beg? Do you love her more than you love yourself? You need to remove yourself as an option.

"Wife, it was not right of me to force you to choose. I love you enough to let you go. Besides, I am not willing to share my wife with anyone. I hope you find happiness."

Then 180, file and prepare to move on.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## naiveonedave

OP you need to call her bluff. Every time you beg or act like a wimp, she loses more respect  for you. To have a chance to save this, you need to be strong and willing to walk.


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## ThreeStrikes

It's probably already physical. Most likely happened 6 weeks ago when she told you she no longer loved you.

OP, you think you know your wife. You are wrong. The only wife you know is the idealistic version you've created in your mind.

Point to get through your head: Cheaters lie.

Cheaters lie. Cheaters lie. Cheaters lie.

You've been trickle truthed and gaslighted.

The next 2 steps are vital if you want to save your marriage:

1. Expose this affair far and wide. Tell friends, family members. Affairs die when they are exposed.

2. File for divorce. ASAP. 

These 2 steps will hopefully shock your wife out of her "rainbows and unicorns" fantasy land. 

If she shows remorse, and begs you not to divorce, then there are steps to take to reconcile.

If she doesn't show remorse, push the D. Hopefully you'll get a fair settlement.

Btw, welcome to the club none of us asked to be in. Many of us have walked this path. We can help, if you want it.


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## tech-novelist

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> New bombshell dropped this morning. There is someone else. Nothing's happened but it's a thought in her mind.


I thought this was the case from your first post. ILYBINILWY means with 90%+ accuracy that she is cheating on you or thinking about it. You are in for a world of hurt.


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## ThreeStrikes

Don't have sex with her again, until she provides you with a clean STD test.

Expose this affair. TODAY!

BTW, she would hardly be the first cheater that lied about it "never being physical".

There were several folks here who had this pegged as an affair from the beginning. You didn't accept it. I suggest listening to the guys who have 'been there/done that'.

Stop thinking you know her. As someone said earlier, you are deluding yourself.

Expose. File.

Otherwise you are headed for some serious suffering.


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## Thound

The woman you knew as your wife is dead and gone. All thats left is this cold blame shifting cheater. Maybe you are partially to blame for marital problems, but her cheating is all on her. Time to grow a set! And for Gods sake stopy the wimpy begging crap it is hugely counter productive. You can do this. No one here wants to to be divorced, but thats the direction you are headed with this needy crap. She said she would choose the other guy. She sees him as a strong confident man. Right now she sees you as a wimpy needy boy. Im not trying to be mean, but wake up man. Dont ever be anyones doormat. Luv ya Bro.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist

This should be moved to the private section ASAP, or she may find it. @85GT-79FJ40, you need 30 posts or to become a supporting member to read in the private section.


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## manfromlamancha

Wow! She told you that if she had to choose, she would choose him ???!!!!

That is all you need to know now. You should have told her to GTFO and go to him ! 


You should never have to do the "pick me dance" against a [email protected] with your wife. She needs to know that!

Rewriting marital history is just the start of it. She will have you blaming yourself for everything she does soon.

The fact that she would choose him, wants no real public affection from you etc means that she has fvcked him! You need to get that into your head. Next, as others have told you, you need to understand that she is not the wife you think you had - she is someone else now.

She needs to wake up and understand that she has screwed up - by fvcking another man, by lying about it, by making you believe that it is your fault and now by making you dance to her tune and keeping you around as a backup plan. This is vile behaviour and you need to wake up and pull up from this nose dive you are in.


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## manfromlamancha

Find out who this POSOM is asap. You need to use ANY means at your disposal to do this. Stealth, sneaking, VARs, key loggers, PI - whatever. Then rain hell on him. Tell his wife/gf, their work whatever, to blow this affair up.

She needs to wake up and smell the cow dung!


----------



## MRR

You know she lied to you last night. She has not been in contact romantically just through texts. She HAS had physical encounters. Most likely this guys d!ck has been inside her. That should disgust you. 

Please do not have 'another long talk' with her again. She is trickle trothing you and messing with your head. Remember the other night when you were 'talking and laughing'? She likes it when you 'talk and laugh' with her because then there is not stress/tension in the house and it makes the whole affair easier for her.


Yeah, she has screwed the other guy, wants the other guy and is ONLY with you for financial reasons. 

You are ok with that? 

You shouldn't be.


----------



## eric1

85,

You are going to feel slightly attacked over the next few days here. This is normal and you are NOT being attacked. You are in shock and questioning if up and up and is down is down.

Because you are in such a maelstrom of emotions, advice at this point needs to be rather direct. Please take this direct form of advice as a call-to-action. 

Your ONLY goal at this point is getting out of infidelity. The other certainty is that your wife is still lying to you, they ALL do. Her affair may seem special and unique to you, but they all fall the same exact patterns through certain parts of them. Initial trickle truth is one of them.

Verify anything that she tells you. My strong suggestion is to run a data recovery on her phone (don't tell her you're doing this, just ask to see texts, she'll have deleted them all already anyways). If she sees what you're doing it'll become World War 3. But I don't think you'll disagree that you need the truth to move forward at this point.


----------



## Thound

tech-novelist said:


> This should be moved to the private section ASAP, or she may find it.
> @85GT-79FJ40, you need 30 posts or to become a supporting member to read in the private section.


Good point. Also be sure to clear your history.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thound

eric1 said:


> 85,
> 
> You are going to feel slightly attacked over the next few days here. This is normal and you are NOT being attacked. You are in shock and questioning if up and up and is down is down.
> 
> Because you are in such a maelstrom of emotions, advice at this point needs to be rather direct. Please take this direct form of advice as a call-to-action.
> 
> Your ONLY goal at this point is getting out of infidelity. The other certainty is that your wife is still lying to you, they ALL do. Her affair may seem special and unique to you, but they all fall the same exact patterns through certain parts of them. Initial trickle truth is one of them.
> 
> Verify anything that she tells you. My strong suggestion is to run a data recovery on her phone (don't tell her you're doing this, just ask to see texts, she'll have deleted them all already anyways). If she sees what you're doing it'll become World War 3. But I don't think you'll disagree that you need the truth to move forward at this point.


 correct no one here wants to beat you up. Youre already doing enough of that on yourself. We are trying to shake you out of the fog. Have you ever been a fight and wound up on the wrong end of a haymaker? It takes a while to shake that off. We are the smelling salts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Bad beta!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sh987

A little late, but for future reference, if nothing else:



> "I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.
> 
> Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings."
> 
> Dr. Willard Harley, author "His Needs Her Needs"


Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)

I'm sorry that you're going through this.


----------



## Ynot

OP, I really have nothing to add other than I am sorry you have to go thru this. I did it myself. I feel for you.
BUT know this - you will recover and come out the other side a wiser, better man than you were before it happened.


----------



## threelittlestars

Okay Im getting my thoughts together. 
How you feeling today? I know you are pretty down, (thats an understatement.) First and foremost get a hold of some protein shakes if food is sitting uncomfortably in your stomach. Second, get ahold of some st. Johns wart, it will help you sleep at night. Or Tylenol pm. (that puts me right to sleep.) 

When i found out about the infidelity i had maybe three hours sleep per day, and three kids under 6 to take care of while my husband was gone in Japan, so i KNOW what lack of sleep can do…. Its insanity. Don’t do that to yourself. I also dropped 35 lbs in 3 and a half months. While i was thinner, i looked like death. So if you lose weight, try to lose it right. Hungry doesn’t look good on anyone. 

So she knows him professionally. Do they work together? What is the circumstances of them running into each other during the past 12 years? 

Oh how noble of him not wanting to break up a family….But what about your wife? She hasn’t decided yet. This is classic fence sitting and you can read hundreds of articles that tell you that you need to knock them off the fence. See in you LETTING her decide you allow her the control. YOU DONT DO THAT. this is YOUR life too and she is throwing a match on it. (What you should do, after getting sleep and eating is tell her YOU HAVE DECIDED AND YOU HAVE DECIDED YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN AN UNSURE AND DISRESPECTFUL WIFE. sure you have made mistakes but like you said YOU WOULD NEVER DO THIS. 

You CAN afford your lives separately. It would just mean some sacrifices and THOSE sacrifices i am POSITIVE will make your wife regret her actions. She will lose her more cushy life. Your kids too, she will see the damage she brought to your family. She will see that she has to count on this other man who like you said hasn’t been in an established relationship for over 12 years. 

If she REFUSES to stop contact you have NO CHOICE, really hun you don’t. You must tell her that you un chose her. Tell her your sexy abs will attract a better catch. Nothin sexier than a man who believes in himself and doesn’t act as a door mat. And that is what she is turning you into. In your desperation you have actually been losing her respect. 

And her saying if you had just loved her more and put the effort in a long time ago is just another tactic to make you feel like **** under her feet and grovel. Sure she might chose you at the end of all this but the moment you stop worshiping at HER feet she will pull this same ****. That is just classic blame shifting right there. Its not true. She cheated and got involved because she like i mentioned before wants the ego kibbles. She wants adoration and worship…. that is NOT a balanced or fair person. 

Your getting sick of the mind games. I AM SO GLAD YOU SEE THAT! 

You don’t want to call her bluff but man YOU MUST CALL IT. you must….and i bet you money in a week she will be begging YOU for a chance. File for divorce. Beauty of it is you can stop the process at any time. 

Everyone looks at filing for divorce as so FINAL, but it isn’t. It gets stopped all the time. But what it does is shows the unfaithful partner that you mean business. 

Stop letting her decide….you have forgotten that you have a choice here. Be a stronger person than her and stand for what you believe…. She WILL respect you for it once she is out of her fog. 

Nice’ing her back NEVER EVER WORKS LONG TERM. i doesn’t. We been saying that for a long time. 

Also look up Trickle truth in regards infidelity. your wife is doing that to you now. Look up gas lighting and blame shifting. She is also doing that too. She is actively emotionally abusing you. and you don’t need to take it.


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## 3Xnocharm

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I lost it last night emotionally and she was genuinely worried about me. Honestly I'm very worried about her. I'm a guy, I know others that have been in this position and the guys always come out OK. I don't know of one of the wives who aren't a complete mess now. I told her this and I probably shouldn't have.* I also pleaded with her to stop contact but she said if she had to choose now she would chose him.* She flat out-insists there has been no physical contact. She won't tell me who it is.


OMG she already told you what she wants, and yet you are still letting her be with you?? She told you RIGHT HERE that you don't matter! Have some damn self respect and kick her to the curb! Good lord man, where are your balls?? Stop being all wimpy and wishy washy telling her how much worse off she will be! Also stop worrying about the financial aspect of living separate lives, you find a way, its just how it is. So many of us have been there, and you just make it work. 

For the love of God, MAN UP! Quit leaving this up to her!


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## Slow Hand

Beta to the max! She does not find you attractive in this state, man up and be more Alpha and kick some booty! 

Just be sure you really want her back, especially if she had some other dude in her. Major deal breaker for me. 

As others have said, take care of yourself, eat right and get enough sleep. 

Here's a good quote to live by, memorize it and live it. 0


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## turnera

Oh for heavens' sake. Just hire a damn PI and get the info on the guy and EXPOSE THE AFFAIR.

Stop being a wimp. NO woman wants a weak man.


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## weightlifter

GAAAAH!!!

You are at war!

Find out who he is and starts firing back at him!

Instructions are top link in my sig.

If he is using any kind of professional ties or status. Get proof, save it offsite and start carpet bombing his life already.

Find your inner Klingon and start using it dammit.


----------



## weightlifter

Be a mirror. Be nice to people who are are nice to you. Bionking a woman you know is married is not nice.


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## Marc878

Read thru your thread. 

She doesn't love me but there is no one else.
It was a dream!
Now the other man has surfaced.
All her relatives swore there was no one else, right?

You'd better wake up. You're working on yourself in total denial of what's going on and another man has moved in on you. 

Check the phone bill!!!!! Now!!!! Get evidence and do full exposure. While you're doing this 180 and do not confront until you're ready. If I were you I'd be working fast!!!!!

You'd better grow a backbone. Being weak and pathetic at this time will get you nowhere.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!


----------



## Marc878

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Well it turns out you are right. We had a LONG talk tonight and here I am again, 3AM and can't sleep. I'm so heartbroken I don't know what to do next. There is no physical affair but she's been in communication with this guy (it's someone she's known on a professional basis for about 12 years) in a romantic way for about 6 weeks. She hasn't acted on it yet and she says that he doesn't want to break up our marriage if she's willing to work on it. He thinks it's very wrong but of course being a guy if she's single he'll oblige her. But she hasn't made up her mind yet. If it wasn't for our daughter she told me flat out she would be gone and would have tried to have a real relationship with him. I tried to make the point that if someone is in their 40's and hasn't been in a relationship for 12 years there is something wrong. I also tried to make the point that neither of us can afford to live on our own and support our daughter, especially not her. So she's remaining cold to me and isn't acting on him other than texts and occasional phone conversations (which she said I could read the texts if I wanted, but I don't want to pour salt on the wounds now that I know) and she isn't sure yet if she wants to try to make our marriage work. I'm VERY concerned she'll divorce me, screw up our kid, ruin both of us financially, and then find that it won't work out after all. Pretty much all the divorced couples I know that's how it played out. Husbands come out fine, wives are miserable. Through all this though I still love her and would do anything to get her back. But I need to get control of myself first and foremost. And I need sleep. Last night was the first night I've had a full nights sleep in weeks. It's not all me for sure. I wasn't the greatest husband but I would NEVER do this to her.


Translation: her - I'm having an affair with another man and feeding you some trickle truth.

Translation: you - I will continue to be your doormat and believe anything you tell me and do whatever you want me to do. I do not want to know the truth because I'm to weak to handle it or do anything about it.


----------



## 85GT-79FJ40

Last night on my way home I began to feel so angry and betrayed. When I got home I told her this and that it had to stop. She still said it was her decision and she was tired of MY crap. Once again I told her no matter how bad things were I would NEVER do this to her. So we agreed we're splitting up. I can't trust her any more with my love. She told our daughter and there were lots of tears from me and my daughter. I packed a bag and went to a friends for the night. I just couldn't be there even though it ripped my heart out leaving my daughter behind. I do still love her but I don't think I can get past this and I feel somewhat relieved although the uncertainty is killing me. We have a lot of things to figure out.


----------



## Thound

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Last night on my way home I began to feel so angry and betrayed. When I got home I told her this and that it had to stop. She still said it was her decision and she was tired of MY crap. Once again I told her no matter how bad things were I would NEVER do this to her. So we agreed we're splitting up. I can't trust her any more with my love. She told our daughter and there were lots of tears from me and my daughter. I packed a bag and went to a friends for the night. I just couldn't be there even though it ripped my heart out leaving my daughter behind. I do still love her but I don't think I can get past this and I feel somewhat relieved although the uncertainty is killing me. We have a lot of things to figure out.


She should have been the one to leave.


----------



## ConanHub

Sorry. She needs to leave. She is the one betraying her child and you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manfromlamancha

You should not have left the marital home (abandonment).

She cheated - she leaves! "She is not putting up with your crap" - incredible!!!

Tell her to go stay with her POSOM - lets see if he is serious or she is just a piece of a$$ to him.

You have every right to be angry and I am glad that you are finally standing up for yourself and not accepting her crap!

Find out who he is (you may need to go into heavy stealth mode to do this) and then blow up the affair! Especially if he is married or in a relationship.

And get back to your house and your bedroom pronto!


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## manfromlamancha

And make no mistake about this - this has nothing to do with your past behaviour. She found a guy (you need to find out who, where, when etc) and got the hots for him. She measured him up, tried him out and then decided to bring up old marital stuff and rewrite history to justify her awful behaviour.

This affair is purely on her - nothing to do with you. Marital problems are shared 50/50 but cheating is 100% on the cheater!

So no point in shooting down her concocted reasons for straying or trying to "put it right" - she came up with them to justify her fvcking this other man and she is not ready to have you take her justifications away!


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## Marc878

Nothing but lies have been coming out of your wife's mouth. Typical cheater script. Are you starting to get it now? 

The more you cry, grovel and beg the more unnactractive you become. You're weakness is being compared to her other man. Get it?

You probably have not and will not be getting sex because it would be cheating on her other man.

Read up. You'd better get strong quick. Your life, family, future are about to be taken away and given to another man who will take your place in the marital bed and help raise your family. 

Better read up
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=RaTM3kNGCT5mhj5siJV3Ue5n7uU-


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## Marc878

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Last night on my way home I began to feel so angry and betrayed. When I got home I told her this and that it had to stop. She still said it was her decision and she was tired of MY crap. Once again I told her no matter how bad things were I would NEVER do this to her. So we agreed we're splitting up. I can't trust her any more with my love. She told our daughter and there were lots of tears from me and my daughter. I packed a bag and went to a friends for the night. I just couldn't be there even though it ripped my heart out leaving my daughter behind. I do still love her but I don't think I can get past this and I feel somewhat relieved although the uncertainty is killing me. We have a lot of things to figure out.


Never leave the home!!!!!!! She's a cheater!!!!! She's owning you and playing you. When are you going to pull your head out of your azz??????

the cheating is 100% on her. You're inability to fight for yourself iand handle this is on You.


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## Marc878

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...vidence-post.html?highlight=standard+evidence

Better find out what and who you're dealing with. Your only weapon at this time.
If you're smart you'll read up and do full exposure to friends, family and work but judging from what you've done so far I don't see it happening. 

She is way ahead of you and worked you over like a pro.


----------



## Marc878

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Last night on my way home I began to feel so angry and betrayed. When I got home I told her this and that it had to stop. She still said it was her decision and she was tired of MY crap. Once again I told her no matter how bad things were I would NEVER do this to her. So we agreed we're splitting up. I can't trust her any more with my love. She told our daughter and there were lots of tears from me and my daughter. I packed a bag and went to a friends for the night. I just couldn't be there even though it ripped my heart out leaving my daughter behind. I do still love her but I don't think I can get past this and I feel somewhat relieved although the uncertainty is killing me. We have a lot of things to figure out.


There is no we. 

She has already figured it out and is heading toward home with other man while you are wondering around in left field looking for the ball.

You are doing exactly as they planned. She'll be moving you out permanently next so other man can take your place and raise your daughter. Do you have the guts to stand up for yourself??????

You could fight this if you read and listen. Maybe it's about time you started.


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## Marc878

You're gonna have one chance to do this right. Read up and gather your facts. 

Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


----------



## Marc878

Maybe your best bet is to just file and take your life back. It will give you the control you currently lack. And you'll get to the finish a lot quicker that way. Whether it ends or not.

If you go this route take off your ring and change your Facebook status to divorcing or separated. Move her cheating azz out of the bedroom.

She's the cheater here so treat her like one. You'll be surprised at what happens if you have the balls to do it.


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## Marc878

If you can step up. You don't tell her what you are going to do. No warnings. Just do it. 

Take control of your life. You can do this. 

No one else is going to help. You have to.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Don't move out.

Do not show anger, or do anything stupid to giver her a reason to get a restraining order against you.

Make sure you are the one filing for D, and give "infidelity" as the reason.

In the meanwhile, expose, expose, EXPOSE!

Consult with a D lawyer ASAP. Know your rights, and learn the laws in your state.

Cancel/freeze all joint accounts.


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## turnera

IIWY, I'd go home right now, even if you have to leave work, to make sure you can still get into the house with your key.


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## manfromlamancha

turnera said:


> IIWY, I'd go home right now, even if you have to leave work, to make sure you can still get into the house with your key.


Yep, do it now!


----------



## Chaparral

You haven't listened to anything that we have told you. You haven't done anything you have been told to do. we told you from the start what was going on.

Now you have done the dumbest thing you could do and left the house.

how is this working out for you?

The good news. By doing nothing right to stop this affair, you will soon be done with your lying, cheating, back stabbing wife. Good luck with your next one.


----------



## Chaparral

Tell her parents and brothers and sisters and ask them who it is.


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## Omar174

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I also pleaded with her to stop contact but she said if she had to choose now she would chose him.


Bull****, SHE ALREADY CHOSE HIM. 



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> She flat out-insists there has been no physical contact. She won't tell me who it is.


Yeah right. :bsflag:



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> She actually said last night if she had seen the amount of love I was pouring out earlier we wouldn't be in this situation.


Yeah, it's all your fault. :banghead:


----------



## threelittlestars

Before you left the house you should have consulted a Lawyer first. In leaving she could make it seem like abandonment on your part. You need to go back home. YOU NEED TO. make up a bed in a corner if you must but then you two see lawyers and bang out the facts. YOU have to protect your stance in this. 

I know you need to leave. But you can't give her opportunity to change locks etc. You really need to go back for your financial protection. You also need to file for 50/50 custody if not more. 

CONSEQUENCES MAN. you are finally showing them. You can mitigate the collateral damage in this by seeing a lawyer and knowing your rights. You and your daughter are collateral...you need to minimize the consequences. 

Hugs. I feel for you man. More and more. She is worthless in this mindset. This is not your wife, she is the enemy and this is WAR. 

Paint some brave heart paint on your face and channel your inner warrior. You can do this. Schedule an appointment TODAY.


----------



## Omar174

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> But I genuinely love my wife and want our family to stay together. *She's the one*.


One more thing. 

The person you thought she WAS, is "the one". Not this cheater. Get her off the pedestal dude.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

GET BACK INTO YOUR HOME! SHE needs to leave, she is the one cheating!


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## threelittlestars

3Xnocharm said:


> GET BACK INTO YOUR HOME! SHE needs to leave, she is the one cheating!


I wouldn't even focus on the "Principle" of things. Like her being in the wrong. Its just PLAIN STUPID to leave without ANYTHING in writing or advice from a lawyer. 

I get the feeling our guy here just snapped. and you do really IRRATIONAL things when that happens. 

He snapped but this is something that needed to happen. The denial was strong with this one. he was in denial right up to what two days ago? His denial did not help him at all, and he just needs to talk to a lawyer. 

In house separation from what i hear is brutal but its necessary in most places otherwise a lot of money is spent on rent and other expenses that you need to use to fight your wife in court. 

Speaking of fight... How are the bank accounts looking? Have you pulled half out and taken it for yourself? You are going to need something to fight her with. You get half.


----------



## wizernow

Not only don't move out of the house, don't leave your own bed. Make her leave it. SHE is the one who broke the marriage vows.SHE can sleep on the couch or in the guest room.


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## Lilac23

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Well things are looking up. I wound up back in our bed early sunday morning and woke up and made breakfast like I usually do. She ate with me (hasn't in a while now) and we had normal conversation but she was cold. I actually joined facebook saturday and she kind of freaked out and told me if I posted anything about us being the perfect couple she would have papers this week.


She must be friends with the other man on facebook and didn't want him to see any 'happy family' photos.



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I was awake and I got her water, got her something to eat, and rubbed her back until she calmed down. Then she started crying. I told her I loved her and I was there to help. Probably the wrong thing to say but we both calmed down and went back to bed. This morning I told her I enjoyed last night and she said she did too and if I had always been like that we wouldn't be in this spot. I gave her a big hug and told her I was changing for myself and if it helped her put the pieces back together all the better. She began sobbing and I just held her. Then she had to pull herself together before my daughter woke up. I said goodbye and gave my daughter a kiss and went to work.


I don't see this as positive, I see this as her probably feeling guilty but letting you know that even if you change, she still wants out.


----------



## Lilac23

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I lost it last night emotionally and she was genuinely worried about me. Honestly I'm very worried about her. I'm a guy, I know others that have been in this position and the guys always come out OK. I don't know of one of the wives who aren't a complete mess now. I told her this and I probably shouldn't have. I also pleaded with her to stop contact but she said if she had to choose now she would chose him. She flat out-insists there has been no physical contact.


Stop doing...well...all of this. Strength is very attractive to women and you are not showing her strength right now. You are showing her weakness and that you will turn yourself inside out to please her. That is not generally attractive to _men or women_. A good analogy is to think of a time you were not interested in a girl but she would not leave you alone. It was a turnoff, no? This is how you currently appear to her. Needy, clingy, whiny. It is understandable because you are going through a difficult time, but no one will respect you if you don't respect yourself. 



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> She won't tell me who it is.


Check her fb friend list and see who has been liking a lot of her solo photos lately. 



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> This morning I went to my doctor and had an initial meeting with a therapist. I'm now on medication for my anxiety (which is big cause of my marriage problems anyhow) and got some sleeping pills. I know I'll come out of this OK. I have been getting back in shape and my wife actually commented on my abs this morning. I'm a fairly good looking guy and I'm nice. I'm not into sports either. I know I could move on. But I genuinely love my wife and want our family to stay together. She's the one. She actually said last night if she had seen the amount of love I was pouring out earlier we wouldn't be in this situation. I'm getting sick of the mind games but I also don't want to call her bluff and blow everything up. Once I get a handle on myself I'm sure I've got this. One way or the other. And his needs her needs as well as 2 of the same doctor's other books are on the way.


You don't have to be needy or call her bluff. Just avoid relationship talk, begging her to stay, telling her she'll never find someone as good as you, crying in front of her, picking fights with her, talking about 'your feelings'. All you can control in this situation is yourself and you need to set about doing that before you do anything else.


----------



## Lilac23

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Last night on my way home I began to feel so angry and betrayed. When I got home I told her this and that it had to stop. She still said it was her decision and she was tired of MY crap. Once again I told her no matter how bad things were I would NEVER do this to her. So we agreed we're splitting up. I can't trust her any more with my love. She told our daughter and there were lots of tears from me and my daughter. I packed a bag and went to a friends for the night. I just couldn't be there even though it ripped my heart out leaving my daughter behind. I do still love her but I don't think I can get past this and I feel somewhat relieved although the uncertainty is killing me. We have a lot of things to figure out.


Is this the beginning of you establishing your boundaries? If so, good! I think it was a little preemptive and short sighted to spring the announcement on your daughter that way, however, but what's done is done. I would go back to the marital home depending on what you want out of the divorce. Do you want 50/50 custody or to retain the home? These are things you need to think about as you consider your next steps. If you just move out, it may affect your chances of getting them. And remember to control your emotions around her, mainly crying and getting angry.


----------



## Adelais

I hope you are alright and that you have gone back to your home.

Sleep in your marital bed tonight. Now that you have sleep meds, sleep like a baby. Make her move to the couch, guest room, floor, wherever if she can't stand sleeping next to you. Better yet, tell her to go to her other man.

Be the king of your household.

Have you found out if her family was on to her affair? Have you told them all? If they weren't part of it themselves, telling them might be the quickest way of shocking her out of her fog.

Do you have family, other than hers to help with your child? Don't let her leave with your daughter.


----------



## Evinrude58

Page two of this you were told to start looking for the other man that you couldn't believe was there.

Other posters have told you this isn't just an emotional affair. They are 100% correct. So treat her as the cheating adulteress she is.

Go file for divorce. I hope you'll do it today. Until you accept there's 0 hope (there isn't, she told you so) you will be in pain just like you are now. Once you decide to move ahead, you will slowly see your wife for who she is. You will see yourself as the husband you really were. Either way, take heart-- it appears from what I've seen that cheaters trade down and betrayed spouses trade up. Look forward to a life with a better woman and it will happen.

Who is the MAN? It's YOU!
You WILL overcome this!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> So we agreed we're splitting up.


Good for you. I envy you. You get to start over. I hope you follow through.




85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I can't trust her any more with my love.


I'll never be able to give my heart fully to anyone ever again. I know what you're going through. Sorry.


----------



## Thound

Hey GT, how are you doing buddy? I know you feel your world is crashing down around you. I know you came here for advice and support, but feel beat up. Believe me everyone here wants you to come out on top. Many people here have been where you are. Hang in there. You are in my prayers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound

Would some of you who have been thru what GT is going thru share what you went thru? What was your first reaction, how did you initially respond how did you finally respond etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 85GT-79FJ40

I haven't been on here in a while because quite frankly my wife has been open and honest with me about her feelings for this other man and she has said repeatedly they never so much as hugged. He was filling an emotional need she didn't think I could give her after years of neglect. Once it was getting to the point of it potentially getting physical a few weeks ago he urged her to work on her marriage. When I left earlier in the week she of course contacted him first and he told her he wasn't getting any further involved and wouldn't be known around town as a homewrecker and to please stop contacting him. So naturally she was upset about that. She has not come full circle (not even close) but I did come home the following morning after I slept off my anger. She didn't speak to me for a few days but she told her boss about what was going on and he strongly encouraged her to go to counseling with me. So we start Tuesday. She says she still has no feelings for me in that way and she doesn't know if she ever will. But she's also taken back by the fact I helped her when she felt sick, and all the writing and things I have said. Repeatedly she's said if I had been like this all along we wouldn't be where we are. I keep saying I want to move forward and she's not ready. Right now she just wants to focus on our daughter. She still thinks what she did was innocent and harmless.... Hardly and I think that's going to be a big topic tuesday. Had that never happened I would still be a selfish ass but this never would have come up. I don't know if this is going to work out or not but the knowledge is either going to make our marriage much better from this point forward or it will make my next relationship better. That's all going to depend on her. 

The medication seems to be working too. I haven't had a breakdown in days and I was able to work all week for the first time since this started. I finally have control of myself. I'm also down 17 pounds and feeling more physically fit than I've been since right after we met. I am truly hoping that this works out and she falls in love with me again. But I realize it's a long shot. Our daughter is handling all this surprisingly well but besides us being affectionate to one another around her not much has changed yet. Last night we were all out together and she kept trying to get us to hold hands and hug. Obviously she wants her parents to love one another.


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## Marc878

It takes two to make a marriage. If she won't pull her end you will be wasting your life here. IF the other man is anyway involved MC is a waste of money. 

Keep your eyes wide open!!!!! Remember your first posts. There was no other man, right????

Can you believe what she's telling you now??? If this is gonna work there needs to be transparency. If there's nothing to hide she should be wide open.

You'll know soon enough. 

Also be wary of therapists. They are not gods. I hope for your sake you get a good one.

If I were you I'd start working on myself and not worry about her. Prepare!!!!!


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## Evinrude58

You would be better off filing for divorce. Glad you're doing better. The only chance you have is filing and shocking her into seeing what she is blind to. Otherwise, you're going to get a slow deterioration of your marriage and still lose her.

If you file and she is ok with it, your marriage was doomed anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

Do you know who he is???? If not you'd be smart to find out. 

She needs to be totally NC. If not this is continuing and you will be wasting your time.


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## Marc878

Evinrude58 said:


> You would be better off filing for divorce. Glad you're doing better. The only chance you have is filing and shocking her into seeing what she is blind to. Otherwise, you're going to get a slow deterioration of your marriage and still lose her.
> 
> If you file and she is ok with it, your marriage was doomed anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good advice from one who's just been there but I doubt this will happen just yet.


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## Evinrude58

Marc878 said:


> It takes two to make a marriage. If she won't pull her end you will be wasting your life here. IF the other man is anyway involved MC is a waste of money.
> 
> Keep your eyes wide open!!!!! Remember your first posts. There was no other man, right????
> 
> Can you believe what she's telling you now??? If this is gonna work there needs to be transparency. If there's nothing to hide she should be wide open.
> 
> You'll know soon enough.
> 
> *Also be wary of therapists. They are not gods. I hope for your sake you get a good one.*
> 
> If I were you I'd start working on myself and not worry about her. Prepare!!!!!


Absolutely true. Most tell what people want to hear to get them back to take their money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Repeatedly she's said if I had been like this all along we wouldn't be where we are. I keep saying I want to move forward and she's not ready. Right now she just wants to focus on our daughter. She still thinks what she did was innocent and harmless.... Hardly and I think that's going to be a big topic tuesday. Had that never happened I would still be a selfish ass but this never would have come up.


Translation: it's 100% all your fault and you made me bring another man into our marriage!!!!

Not a good sign. Fix your issues but I would not wallow in limbo for long or let fear make me a doormat. Being weak and pathetic here will get you nothing.

Good luck


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## Marc878

One other thing. Act in a calm rational manner. Do not lose your temper, yell, etc no matter what.

If you have to walk away and address, talk later. Keep cool and use your head not your heart.


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## Evinrude58

My experience: once a woman changes their mind, it's changed. 
It doesn't change back. It may be possible. Not likely.

An emotional affair is as damaging to the mindset of a woman as physical affair. Moreso, if the physical is only physical.

She has to make you the scapegoat because it doesn't add up in her mind that SHE could be at fault without arousing guilt. Cheaters don't like guilt.8
She has even convinced you. I am almost 100% sure that you weren't the neglected she says you were or she wouldn't be indecisive. 
Make no mistake, if you don't toughen up and show that you can do without her, she will be gone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThreeStrikes

Never so much as hugged, eh?

Sigh...


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## the guy

I think "toughen up" may be the wrong word......I suggest you start building up your confidence and as you can acknowledge her feels of neglect, but in the same breath she needs to see a confident man you does diserve good things.

Lets face it...it takes two to phuck up a marriage so your old lady isn't as innocent in this failure and her going out side the marriage for emotional support is still a betrayal.....

She has to own her own shyt in all of this and she isn't.

So my point is what will prevent her from pulling the same crap with a different guy...a guy with a lot less morals?

I hope this marriage works out but she has to face her own bull shyt and some painful realities about her self. Other wise what has she learned, how will she affair proof her marriage in the future?


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## 85GT-79FJ40

I'm hoping counseling will make her realize how wrong what she did is. Right now she keeps saying she just wants to be loved by someone she loves and she thought this guy was in love with her. It turns out he is not. So she's even more confused now. We both have a lot going on professionally right now and our house is on the market so stress levels for both of us were already insanely high before this came up. If she doesn't want to make it work by the time the house sells I'll likely call it quits. I don't want to buy another house with her and wind up going through a divorce shortly afterwards. She says if it comes to that she doesn't want anything from me. Just half of what we have and split custody of our daughter. Neither of us had anything before and honestly besides the house we don't have a heck of a lot now besides furniture and a few cars. I'm optimistic counseling will help her see that yes I was a fool all these years but it doesn't mean it has to stay that way and that she was a fool not communicating her feelings with me much sooner in our relationship. I think she has a lot of guilt about what she did and it just hasn't come out yet. I'm going to give her some time. But I'm not going to be a doormat. I want this to work but I'm prepared to move on if it doesn't in a reasonable amount of time. 

I recently read his needs her needs for parents and our situation is pretty textbook. I wasn't there for her when she wanted me to be, and when I wanted her affection she would rarely give it to me. So we both neglected each other and resented one another. Then our daughter was born and she threw herself into that head on. I haven't had a whole lot of say about how she has been raised but she's a wonderful kid. And I'm OK with that. When my wife was dedicating her life to our daughter I turned to restoration projects. Which she always said she was supportive of but it took me away from my family a LOT. So they both got neglected. I began to realize this too late and my wife was already falling out of love with me, and this guy gave her attention and she ate it up. So it's really both of our faults. I just hope she sees it that way and we can move forward. If not I'm out


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## *Deidre*

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I'm hoping counseling will make her realize how wrong what she did is. Right now she keeps saying she just wants to be loved by someone she loves and she thought this guy was in love with her. It turns out he is not. So she's even more confused now. We both have a lot going on professionally right now and our house is on the market so stress levels for both of us were already insanely high before this came up. If she doesn't want to make it work by the time the house sells I'll likely call it quits. I don't want to buy another house with her and wind up going through a divorce shortly afterwards. She says if it comes to that she doesn't want anything from me. Just half of what we have and split custody of our daughter. Neither of us had anything before and honestly besides the house we don't have a heck of a lot now besides furniture and a few cars. I'm optimistic counseling will help her see that yes I was a fool all these years but it doesn't mean it has to stay that way and that she was a fool not communicating her feelings with me much sooner in our relationship. I think she has a lot of guilt about what she did and it just hasn't come out yet. I'm going to give her some time. But I'm not going to be a doormat. I want this to work but I'm prepared to move on if it doesn't in a reasonable amount of time.
> 
> I recently read his needs her needs for parents and our situation is pretty textbook. I wasn't there for her when she wanted me to be, and when I wanted her affection she would rarely give it to me. So we both neglected each other and resented one another. Then our daughter was born and she threw herself into that head on. I haven't had a whole lot of say about how she has been raised but she's a wonderful kid. And I'm OK with that. When my wife was dedicating her life to our daughter I turned to restoration projects. Which she always said she was supportive of but it took me away from my family a LOT. So they both got neglected. I began to realize this too late and my wife was already falling out of love with me, and this guy gave her attention and she ate it up. So it's really both of our faults. I just hope she sees it that way and we can move forward. If not I'm out


This is truly beautiful, that you have self reflected to this level. I hope things work out for you both, and that you find peace, however that turns out.


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## the guy

It sounds like you have have plan ...now work the plan!


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## Marc878

Sounds like you have a solid plan. Eyes and ears open around the MC. Common sense applies. This is your $ so if you feel this one is not working out move onto the next.


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## the guy

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Once it was getting to the point of it potentially getting physical a few weeks ago he urged her to work on her marriage. When I left earlier in the week she of course contacted him first and he told her he wasn't getting any further involved and wouldn't be known around town as a homewrecker and to please stop contacting.


A few things you need to keep in mind. This kind of thing is addicting so your old lady may still want to contact the OM and he may not be able to stay away. She may even pay the price for this contact by sleeping with him.

Maybe this OM has morals maybe he doesn't!

Trust but verify! This could go deep underground ...cooling it off for a while or finding other ways to contact each other.

There is no way to validate what the OM said to her so he just might want a FWB but your old lady went all "soul mate" on him and scared him off.

False R is common....you are not out of the woods....no contact means no contact and if the both of you can keep this OM from infecting the marriage you have a better chance...but as long as the OM is or has potential to get back in the picture you are still in great danger of losing her.

I'm afraid that there is no currentcy your old lady won't pay to get this guy back and I'm guessing this OM's moral compass isn't as true as your old lady tells you. She may well feel that even she is being used by this guy she still may be drawn to him.

If you find out they are still in contact ...you can be the best husband in the world and it won't mean shyt!


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## turnera

She needs to read about emotional affairs.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

turnera said:


> She needs to read about emotional affairs.


Yes she does. I tried to communicate to her yesterday just how wrong this was for her to do but she keeps saying it was nothing physical at all and she couldn't control her feelings... I have a feeling counseling will be a big eye opener for her. Last night we had a good talk though. She now also sees that we both really wanted the same thing all along but we were so upset with one another neither of us would listen and we turned our attention elsewhere. I'm ready to jump back in but she's not there. I hope she will be eventually but I'm not waiting forever.


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## MachoMcCoy

Thound said:


> Would some of you who have been thru what GT is going thru share what you went thru?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I went through the same thing he did. But you don't want to hear my answer. The love of his life. His soul mate. His EVERYTHING basically said "I haven't loved you for a long time. But I'm stuck with you for now. I doubt I'll ever love you again. I'd be gone if I had a choice right now". 

A walk-away-wife. A LOT of people have gone through this. Most women who are thread starters on this site are. 

But i don't expect my one little vote for "mine didn't come back" to sway anyone. But I would propose 5 or so years of devotion to a topic that affected me greatly. A time commitment that would surely get me fired if my boss knew how much time I spent on it. My conclusion?

They don't come back.



85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I am truly hoping that this works out and she falls in love with me again. But I realize it's a long shot.


You have no idea.

Probably the best thing that happened to me is that I started doing my research before I realized what the problem was. A lot of things were close, but didn't quite make sense. Once it hit me (like a ton of bricks) that my wife hadn't loved me for the past 15 years or so, it all clicked together. One of those pieces that clicked into place was the "she's not coming back" piece. 

I instantly went to rock bottom. You can only go up from there. You still have some descending to do. And it's going to be a long hard slog. You haven't even gone to your first "session" yet. 

Let me guess: she hasn't read the books yet. And now that I think of it, she hasn't been the the marriage counselor yet.

Good luck to you. Start preparing.


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## 85GT-79FJ40

Nope she hasn't read the books yet. Even though I flat out told her what happened to us was pretty textbook and typical. That obviously isn't going to change her feelings but it does make complete sense to me. She's still totally cold to me. But it's only been about 2 months since she made up her mind her love for me was gone. If she starts having feelings for me again great, it would make me incredibly happy. But if she doesn't sometime in the next 6-12 months I think my enthusiasm for rekindling our relationship will die and I will want out myself. She's seeing a loving, caring, emotional side of me now that she hasn't seen since we first met, and honestly not to this degree. So in a way i've done a 180 on her and she doesn't know what to make of it but it does upset her I wasn't more like this all along. And I honestly don't know why I wasn't. I felt neglected too and I turned my attention to my hobbies, which further neglected her and my daughter. Now she's shocked I want to be so involved with the two of them. She's actually said she would prefer it if I just kept to myself like I always did. But I can't. That's not who I want to be for her or anyone else that may come along if this doesn't work out.


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## eric1

Have you exposed the affair yet? 

You banking on counseling being 'eye opening' is wish casting. You're believing her crappy narrative that this just happened.

No, it didn't.

She went out and found the affair and is now downplaying it as some sort of tripping over a crack in a sidewalk.

You DO NOT combat this by changing you. You may have had some problems. We all do. She's the one that's broken and has chosen then path of finding someone else rather than work it out with you.

Your only concerns right now are protecting yourself and your children. You do this by:

- exposing her affair. This is THE ONLY WAY TO KILL THE AFFAIR. 

- speak with a lawyer. You are doing this for no other reason than protecting yourself. A GOOD LAWYER IS THE PERSON YOU NEED TO BE TAKKING ADVICE FROM AT THIS POINT. COUNSELING IS RECOMMENDED BUT YOUR LAWYER NEEDS TO KEEP YOU SAFE FIRST. You have no idea what her boyfriend is whispering into her ear. Hell, he could have already brought her to a lawyer, you'll never know


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## MachoMcCoy

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> Nope she hasn't read the books yet. Even though I flat out told her what happened to us was pretty textbook and typical.


You are correct. It IS textbook and typical. Just not in the textbooks you're reading. As a matter of fact, it's not in ANY textbooks. Just ask a bunch of people to give you a definition of a walk-away-wife. More than half will be flat out wrong and the other half will be all over the place.

Your wife knows EXACTLY what's going on. It's YOU that doesn't. And the book you need to read hasn't been written. It's too late anyhow. You needed to read it years ago.

I've lived this movie friend. And seen it played out HUNDREDS of times on these forums. And you? How many pages and NOTHING from your wife besides a RESOUNDING "I'm gone". 

I know how this one ends. But keep the faith. You'll need it.


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## threelittlestars

Still "nice'ing" her back i see. Hun...she will NEVER EVER LOVE OR RESPECT YOU AGAIN TILL YOU ARE GONE! 

MC is a waste with a remorseless spouse like yours. She does not even own that she did anything wrong. That is low... You still are a puppy dog around her hoping and wishing for her love to return.... Please read my earlier post! AGAIN. 

You need to be done... show her the papers because you are rug sweeping big time by allowing and hoping and wishing her to get it. Take it from a rug sweeper! 

Not to say your marriage is over and you will get to divorce but man, you need to show her the walking papers. In less than two weeks she will have realized who she is losing....a faithful man. I would almost bet money on it, but I'm sure TAM would not allow gambling. 

You want to save the marriage? Right? this will do it. Get a lawyer, file papers. Give her a dose of life without you. Chances are VERY good that she will crawl back begging YOU to love her.


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## threelittlestars

Also i have my money on her sabotaging any attempts at reconciling in hopes that when she goes back to the OM she can say she tried. He didn't want to ruin a marriage, well he isn't...SHE IS. and she knows it. She welcomes it so she can try to go to the OM....but he already does not want her. So let her go running to him. He won't take her after you have filed. It will be EXACTLY what she needs. TO BE DUMPED.


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## Evinrude58

threelittlestars said:


> Still "nice'ing" her back i see. Hun...she will NEVER EVER LOVE OR RESPECT YOU AGAIN TILL YOU ARE GONE!
> 
> MC is a waste with a remorseless spouse like yours. She does not even own that she did anything wrong. That is low... You still are a puppy dog around her hoping and wishing for her love to return.... Please read my earlier post! AGAIN.
> 
> You need to be done... show her the papers because you are rug sweeping big time by allowing and hoping and wishing her to get it. Take it from a rug sweeper!
> 
> Not to say your marriage is over and you will get to divorce but man, you need to show her the walking papers. In less than two weeks she will have realized who she is losing....a faithful man. I would almost bet money on it, but I'm sure TAM would not allow gambling.
> 
> You want to save the marriage? Right? this will do it. Get a lawyer, file papers. Give her a dose of life without you. Chances are VERY good that she will crawl back begging YOU to love her.


I agree with the first half of this, but the last half is probably inaccurate.

File for divorce. Sir, some have all seen this as said HUNDREDS of times. It's actually UNLIKELY that she will come back after having been given walking papers. She is LIKELY gone. GONE. GONE.

However, if you want ANY chance of a real reconciliation, it is THE ONLY HOPE that you have. I think in the state of mind you are in (which was the same as me and 99% of other people in your shoes were in) you have no hope of reconciling because your wife sees you crawling, sees a man with no strength, sees you as a whimp, and is actually repulsed by you attempting reconciliation after what she KNOWS she has done.

You WON'T listen, because it hurts so badly to give up the hope. The hope is not good in this case, brother. It's actually going to hinder your healing from this, and keep you in a state of mind where you let her have time to work out an exit strategy from your marriage. One that takes as much from you financially as possible.

I am advising you, just as most others, to divorce your cheating wife, and heal and find someone else. In the process, your wife may actually see the strength you have and decide she wasn't so correct about you after all. But every day you sit around pining for lost love, she is pushed FARTHER AWAY from you. 
I firmly believe that anything short of kicking her out and handing her papers is the only thing that might possibly change her thought processes about you. They won't change ANY OTHER WAY than you showing her you are a man.

Your marriage is over. You've got to let it go. It hurts. It will hurt longer if you don't follow the advice you're given.
Your marriage and your wife aren't special. She is a dime a dozen.
Sorry, but this is what you need.


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## Evinrude58

threelittlestars said:


> Also i have my money on her sabotaging any attempts at reconciling in hopes that when she goes back to the OM she can say she tried. He didn't want to ruin a marriage, well he isn't...SHE IS. and she knows it. She welcomes it so she can try to go to the OM....but he already does not want her. So let her go running to him. He won't take her after you have filed. It will be EXACTLY what she needs. TO BE DUMPED.


Can I say HECK YES??!!!


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## 85GT-79FJ40

I'm about 70 percent sure this whole thing is going to wind up in divorce. It's not what I want but I'm prepared for that. I know if we split she's going straight to him. And I have a feeling it's not going to be a happy ending for her. If someone is single at our age there's a reason. Today we met with a social worker who has referred us to a marriage counselor. She doesn't know what she wants but she's still upset with me obviously and I want to work it out. She seems to think that I'll continue to stay with her and house and support both her and my daughter for another 10 years even if she doesn't love me. Rather delusional. I'll happily support my daughter, and her if she can fall in love with me again and remain faithful. But that's a long shot at this point.


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## turnera

Have you TOLD her you won't be staying without substantial work on her part?


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## threelittlestars

OMG....YOU CANT MAKE HER LOVE YOU. besides distance makes the heart grow fonder. Especially since she is taking you and your marriage for granted. A cold dose of water will do more good than what you are doing. 

Its not enough man...you are just delaying the inevitable and its going to be torture.


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## Evinrude58

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I'm about 70 percent sure this whole thing is going to wind up in divorce. It's not what I want but I'm prepared for that. I know if we split she's going straight to him. And I have a feeling it's not going to be a happy ending for her. If someone is single at our age there's a reason. Today we met with a social worker who has referred us to a marriage counselor. She doesn't know what she wants but she's still upset with me obviously and I want to work it out. She seems to think that I'll continue to stay with her and house and support both her and my daughter for another 10 years even if she doesn't love me. Rather delusional. I'll happily support my daughter, and her if she can fall in love with me again and remain faithful. But that's a long shot at this point.


Chance of niceing her back = 0%

Chance of her coming back when given papers and moving out within a month = 1%

Chance of her coming back when given papers and having to move out and get her own job and support herself = 5%

I pulled those numbers out of my rear and suspect I'm giving better odds on her returning.

Chances of her coming back wanting to reconcile after 2 years = 90% Chances of you caring = 0%.

It's just not going to happen that she wants another man and wants you, too. She has lost her love for you, and as logical and stupid as it IS and as it seems, it's very unlikely to return. I actually have never seen it return.

I wish I could convince you to accept that. You could get to "50,000 feet" as they say, and see what your wife really looks like and really is. She is still on the pedestal for you. You still are starving for her love. You'd do anything to get her back. As long as you have those feelings, she is totally in charge, drunk on the power, and wouldn't have you on a bet.

That sucks but is the truth.


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## MachoMcCoy

85GT-79FJ40 said:


> I'm about 70 percent sure this whole thing is going to wind up in divorce. It's not what I want but I'm prepared for that.


I'd actually give you less odds than that. 

But that would be your better result anyhow. If my wife had actually told me she had walked 20 or so years ago and actually chose to divorce me, I'd be happy now. 

Divorce has nothing to do with walk-away wives. Misconception number one. My wife is "textbook" WAW, and I can say with near 100% certainty we'll be married 'till one of us is dead.


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## manfromlamancha

Hey 85GT, just checking up on you - how are things going?


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