# Question for the guys



## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

I've often been told or read that women only dress and make themselves look nice for other women. Such as wearing nice outfits, putting on a little makeup, doing their hair, wearing heels, tights, etc. I kind of think that's mostly false since women DO things that attract male attention. 

Married-- or single-- when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), does it attract your attention? What is it that attracts your attention? Appreciation of her beauty, poise, form, elegance, sexual appeal, etc.? I'm not talking about women who are wearing tight clothes or wear revealing clothes (getting your attention is obvious).


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Beauty yes, too much make up... blech
Poise, form, elegance, sexual appeal yes... but too revealing... blech, no elegance, puts out this "attention seeker" vibe


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

The answer to all your questions is 'yes'.

For SOME men, X always attracts our attention and X is different for every single guy.

For me, I'll be walking along and some woman will walk by with a VERY good scent and I will literally stop and give her a second glance even if I didn't notice her before. She gets an automatic +1 on my attraction meter.

However, if I could put some sort of short hand, I appreciate attraction and effort. That hand upon my arm. The extra time spent to make hair glow. Sure, you may not be shaped like Gwynyth Paltrow, but try to shape the pudding a little bit (I find I am attracted to a specific SHAPE ratio, not a specific weight.)

Sorry if this offends, but men are visual. So if you want to attract one, you need to have good clothes, take time with your hair, do the make up, and get your fanny to the gym a little bit if you want a wider demographic to chose from.

If you want a guy who will say 'good enough' however you look, which isn't something sonnets are written about, do nothing.

Edited to add:

Poise works if you want to cut out the 'riff raff', but you will also be cutting off a lot of other good guys. Being Katherine Hepburn worked when all the other girls were treating their bodies like a prize to be won by the highest bidder. That monopoly has since been broken.

These days poise=inaccessible and VERY high mainainence, at least to my mind. I want someone who isn't afraid to WANT ME BACK!


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> Beauty yes, too much make up... blech
> Poise, form, elegance, sexual appeal yes... but too revealing... blech, no elegance, puts out this "attention seeker" vibe


I've heard the phrase is "attention *****" LOL


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

JCD said:


> The answer to all your questions is 'yes'.
> 
> For SOME men, X always attracts our attention and X is different for every single guy.
> 
> ...


Some of us wanted to cut out the riff raff, though! Nothing wrong with that! Just like a lot of men only seek out women who look a certain way


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I might look but I am usually not interested in a woman that is too immaculate in dress and appearance, unless it is at a high end event where everyone is dressed to the nines.

I find light makeup, casual attire and a winning personality very attractive.

My wife was in jeans and a jacket when I first laid eyes on her and I was mesmerized.

Now that we are married, when she does herself up, I love it because she looks gorgeous and I already know she is mine and I know her "down to earth" side.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

reesespieces said:


> I've often been told or read that women only dress and make themselves look nice for other women. Such as wearing nice outfits, putting on a little makeup, doing their hair, wearing heels, tights, etc. I kind of think that's mostly false since women DO things that attract male attention.
> 
> Married-- or single-- when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), *1. does it attract your attention? 2. What is it that attracts your attention? Appreciation of her beauty, poise, form, elegance, sexual appeal, etc.?* I'm not talking about women who are wearing tight clothes or wear revealing clothes (getting your attention is obvious).


1. It may, but I don't fawn over her beauty. 

2. Answers: yes (all). Can't really suggest it is any one thing.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

How she carries herself while wearing the clothes, makes the woman.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

My wife dresses very nice. I think she does it because it makes her feel good and she does it for me. My wife mostly wears dresses, which is somewhat unusual anymore. She knows I like how she looks in dresses. She also wears heels most of the time. She is very much a shoe person and has even kind of turned me into a shoe person. She loves to come downstairs after getting dressed and watch me as she comes down the steps because I stare in lust the whole time. I appreciate that she does put a high degree of importance on her looks and dress. She also gets many compliments when she or we are out on her dress as so many women do not wear dresses or have taken a very casual approach to dress. She does not dress to impress others....but I even notice the looks she gets. I think most men still appreciate nicely dressed women. Nothing like a pretty sun dress and nice shoes in the summer This winter, leggings and sweaters have been her mainstay and I must say she looks great in them. Hopefully that answers your question even though it was about my wife.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Women don't dress nice for each other...

...they dress nice AGAINST each other.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

And we, as men, are the beneficiaries. I don't mind at all.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

*when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), does it attract your attention*? 
Yes.

*What is it that attracts your attention*? 
I'm attracted to women. That simple.

*Appreciation of her beauty, poise, form, elegance, sxual appeal, etc.*?
Yeah, all that.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

It always cracked me up that women are constantly admonishing men not to be shallow and judge them on their looks.

Okay... go to any party, club, bar, etc., and try to listen to the groups of women when a woman who is better dressed and more attractive has the nerve to walk by them:

"What is she...16?"
"That's way too much makeup!"
"I'll bet that hair color is fake!"
"I'll bet she's sleeping with a sugar daddy!"
"God, what a sl*t!"
"Those boobs aren't real!"


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

reesespieces said:


> Some of us wanted to cut out the riff raff, though! Nothing wrong with that! Just like a lot of men only seek out women who look a certain way


You are correct, but the tenor of your post suggests you want MORE suitors, not less. So acting with too much poise and dignity without having an accessible personality means a girl will, while dressed and acting like a prima Donna, wonder where all the men are as her sisters get dates.

Poise means a lot of hoops, and in this day and age, a guy can easily find a girl who is less 'slap hoopy'


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

F-102 said:


> It always cracked me up that women are constantly admonishing men not to be shallow and judge them on their looks.
> 
> Okay... go to any party, club, bar, etc., and try to listen to the groups of women when a woman who is better dressed and more attractive has the nerve to walk by them:
> 
> ...


I recall an anecdote. This writer was at a party in NYC where the 'poise brigade' held sway and a Cali Blonde was there. All the men were attracted to her which the female writer put down to 'a fish out of water' syndrome.

So, she went to a Cali Party. There a regal NYC Lady was in the midst of a slew of Cali girls. The writer figured she would see the Lady swamped.

The Lady was alone all night.

There is a message there, though I am not smart enough to see it...


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

F-102 said:


> Women don't dress nice for each other...
> 
> ...they dress nice AGAINST each other.


Heh. In high school, there were the makeup wars. Then the thong wars. Then the brand name wars...


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

JCD said:


> You are correct, but the tenor of your post suggests you want MORE suitors, not less. So acting with too much poise and dignity without having an accessible personality means a girl will, while dressed and acting like a prima Donna, wonder where all the men are as her sisters get dates.
> 
> Poise means a lot of hoops, and in this day and age, a guy can easily find a girl who is less 'slap hoopy'


I don't need suitors, I'm already married 

I have yet to actually see women dressing and acting like prima Donnas. More women could care less if men find them attractive, but they're always competing against other women. I guess it depends on the guy what's considered an "accessible personality." I don't think there's anything wrong with poise, grace, elegance, etc. Not every girl is a "casual girl" and tbh I'm sort of surprise how poise is getting a bad rap. Maybe only certain circles have that preference.


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

johnAdams said:


> My wife dresses very nice. I think she does it because it makes her feel good and she does it for me. My wife mostly wears dresses, which is somewhat unusual anymore.


Your wife is what a lot of men would see as too poised or something. Heck even women seem to find other women who wear dresses unaccessible. Can't win them all


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

reesespieces said:


> Married-- or single-- when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), does it attract your attention? What is it that attracts your attention? Appreciation of her beauty, poise, form, elegance, sexual appeal, etc.?


For me, as an older, single guy, what attracts my attention is a woman who knows herself and is comfortable in her own skin. So, a woman in a pair of jeans and light or no makeup, if that's what makes her most comfortable, is a turn-on. That same woman, trying to walk uncomfortably in high heels and a c0cktail dress, is a turn-off. Likewise, a woman who really likes being dressed-up gets my attention when she's dressed-up, and totally loses my attention when she's trying to pull-off a casual look that she's not comfortable with.

So, bottom line, what gets my attention is sincerely knowing yourself and being yourself.


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

papa5280 said:


> So, bottom line, what gets my attention is sincerely knowing yourself and being yourself.


How do you know if a woman is being herself?


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

reesespieces said:


> How do you know if a woman is being herself?


Just little things...Is she constantly fiddling with her hair or adjusting her clothes? Does she seem centered and comfortable, or ill-at-ease and stressed. I've got the image in my head of my 16 year old daughter in her homecoming dress, obviously feeling very awkward that it wasn't her usual jeans. And, for example, I've been in groups camping with women who would have much preferred a fine dining dinner over a campfire dinner. On one hand, they were being good sports, but on the other hand, they were so clearly uncomfortable in that environment that it made me uncomfortable.

Now, I like fine dining and I like camping. I like women who like to do both, but I'm most interested in women who are confident and at-home with what they're doing at the moment.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

_Married-- or single-- when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), does it attract your attention? _

Naturally

_What is it that attracts your attention? _

Hard to say, since it varies case by case.

I have never been less than 100 percent certain that my W dresses for male attention.


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

papa5280 said:


> Now, I like fine dining and I like camping. I like women who like to do both, but I'm most interested in women who are confident and at-home with what they're doing at the moment.


I'd say that's a good way to look at it. 

I mostly asked this question due to hearing a bunch of women complain about how they don't like to be looked at but then do all these crazy things thinking it'll attract a man. Then they do all of these uncomfortable things all while believing they look great. LOL. So glad I'm off the market because my competition would be fierce.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Philat said:


> _Married-- or single-- when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), does it attract your attention? _
> 
> Naturally
> 
> ...


LOL. It's not like they don't know that they recieve attention and acceptuate attention to certain area's depending on how they wish to dress.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

reesespieces said:


> I don't need suitors, I'm already married
> 
> I have yet to actually see women dressing and acting like prima Donnas. *More women could care less if men find them attractive*, but they're always competing against other women. I guess it depends on the guy what's considered an "accessible personality." I don't think there's anything wrong with poise, grace, elegance, etc. Not every girl is a "casual girl" and tbh I'm sort of surprise how poise is getting a bad rap. Maybe only certain circles have that preference.





reesespieces said:


> I'd say that's a good way to look at it.
> 
> *I mostly asked this question due to hearing a bunch of women complain about how they don't like to be looked at but then do all these crazy things thinking it'll attract a man*. Then they do all of these uncomfortable things all while believing they look great. LOL. So glad I'm off the market because my competition would be fierce.



So, which is it? Could women care less how they look for a man or are they doing crazy things which will attract a man?

Let me solve the riddle for you since you seem to be a bit random here. Women dress for HIM: THAT guy...the one who will sweep her off her feet, make her whole, fill her needs blah blah blah. Prince Charming...or a reasonable knock off of the same. Hell, if she just has 'The Spark' with him, that's enough to put on the war paint, the stockings and the high heels.

Unfortunately, she is ALSO dressing in ways which attract The Frogs: i.e. NOT Prince Charming. They loathe the attention from these lesser creatures (in general)

Women are also very status conscious in ways that men aren't, at least in cross gender ways. Women won't dress below their hierarchy if they can get away with it and prefer to dress ABOVE their hierarchy, hoping to fool someone (perhaps a high status male...maybe?)

Status has A place in a man's estimation of a mate, but nowhere near as important as women put on it. So Ms. Poise is actually selling a product (my status) when men are less enthralled with that aspect of her personality.

And the ding about 'certain circles'? Nope, didn't miss that one. Have you considered that 'poise' only sells to certain circles as well? Men will wear feathers, conquer nations, and even eat vegetarian to get laid. They are accomplished hoop jumpers that way. BUT...if they can get laid with less effort, they will.

Which is why you see a lot less poise these days...

Edited to add: I could be wrong, but this is how I see it...and also how some cultural anthropologists and social biologists see things as well...


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Excuse me...dresses make a woman more accessible


Pencil skirts LOOK great but defeat the purpose...Sigh


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

reesespieces said:


> I've often been told or read that women only dress and make themselves look nice for other women. Such as wearing nice outfits, putting on a little makeup, doing their hair, wearing heels, tights, etc. I kind of think that's mostly false since women DO things that attract male attention.


I have never heard this before, and I am a woman.

I hae heard of women who "dress" for women and not for men but that is more about what kind of style they choose to wear. 

For instance, they say that women who dress for men are likely to tart it up whereas a woman who dresses for women is more into fashion, etc. It's not about looking like sex on a stick.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> How she carries herself while wearing the clothes, makes the woman.


So agree. This is the same for men, too.

I love a man who can dress well. But some guys look just as fine in jeans and a t-shirt. It's all about how you wear the clothes, you don't let them wear you. 

Face it, some people are just born with style. And some people can dress well to save their lives.



thunderstruck said:


> *when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), does it attract your attention*?
> Yes.
> 
> *What is it that attracts your attention*?
> I'm attracted to women. That simple.


:rofl:

You are funny, Thunder.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

reesespieces said:


> So glad I'm off the market because my competition would be fierce.


Why is it a competition? Dressing? I don't get it. I personally don't dress to "out-dress" anyone or to "compete" with them. It's not about being on or off the market. It's about preference, what styles I like, what I prefer to wear. 

I am probably what some would consider a fashion chick. I love to dress stylishly and have always, since I was a little girl, been really big into clothes and know what tends to look good on me. I have fun with it. Maybe it's also part of being a latina, we tend to want to look and dress nice. I dress for me, though. Obviously, if I am going out on a date, I will not show up wearing what I wear to the gym or to clean my house, but that is normal. I feel good about putting myself together, whether I am hanging with my girlfriends, meeting up for dinner with someone, or going to work. I looove a nicely put-together outfit. When I was married, ti was the same thing. I love to look nice and don't think there is anything wrong with that.



reesespieces said:


> I mostly asked this question due to hearing a bunch of women complain about how they don't like to be looked at but then do all these crazy things thinking it'll attract a man. Then they do all of these uncomfortable things all while believing they look great. LOL.


Well, these people may be idiots. If the only reason you pick out each outfit every day is to attract a partner, then you probably have a few screws loose and are insecure. I


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:
> 
> You are funny, Thunder.


I have my moments. What I find funny is how some women (not talking about you) don't understand how simple most dudes are when it comes to this.

If a woman is dressed nice, she will get attn from guys.

If she's attractive, but wearing a burka, guys are still going to look.

If a woman ____________ (fill in the blank), guys are going to look.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's the simplicity of your posts that make me laugh. Hahaha.

Because women will go in circles around their head trying to figure stuff out. Hahaha.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> I have my moments. What I find funny is how some women (not talking about you) don't understand how simple most dudes are when it comes to this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We are caught.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

JCD said:


> Status has A place in a man's estimation of a mate, but nowhere near as important as women put on it. So Ms. Poise is actually selling a product (my status) when men are less enthralled with that aspect of her personality.
> 
> And the ding about 'certain circles'? Nope, didn't miss that one. Have you considered that 'poise' only sells to certain circles as well? Men will wear feathers, conquer nations, and even eat vegetarian to get laid. They are accomplished hoop jumpers that way. BUT...if they can get laid with less effort, they will.
> 
> Which is why you see a lot less poise these days...


And so what? Women should trade in their poise so they can have more cheap sex? Might be a win for the legions of horny men, but your advice doesn't seem to give much benefit for the woman.

You may think that a woman wanting a quality suitor is an "obsession" with status, but really, it's just wanting someone who isn't a using and selfish letch.

Just like men don't want someone who makes them feel inadequate or insecure because of her poise or status.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

always_alone said:


> And so what? Women should trade in their poise so they can have more cheap sex? Might be a win for the legions of horny men, but your advice doesn't seem to give much benefit for the woman.
> 
> You may think that a woman wanting a quality suitor is an "obsession" with status, but really, it's just wanting someone who isn't a using and selfish letch.
> 
> Just like men don't want someone who makes them feel inadequate or insecure because of her poise or status.


Much of that poise is supported by the schlubbs who give in and pander to them, providing a place of superiority for her.

If you want a chance with her to take you serious you cannot allow it.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Much of that poise is supported by the schlubbs who give in and pander to them, providing a place of superiority for her.
> 
> If you want a chance with her to take you serious you cannot allow it.


?? I don't even know what this means.

My poise (assuming I have any) has nothing to do with schlubbs support or pandering (which I never see)


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm a woman who dresses for women!
> 
> Not out of competition, I'm happily off the market and not looking. But women who like fashion are generally the only ones noticing the details that I go into when I get dressed. I also notice other women who go into such details and happily and frequently comment on them if I get a chance.
> 
> ...


Rock on, FrenchFry! :smthumbup::smthumbup:

I feel as you do!


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

JCD said:


> So, which is it? Could women care less how they look for a man or are they doing crazy things which will attract a man?
> 
> Let me solve the riddle for you since you seem to be a bit random here. Women dress for HIM: THAT guy...the one who will sweep her off her feet, make her whole, fill her needs blah blah blah. Prince Charming...or a reasonable knock off of the same. Hell, if she just has 'The Spark' with him, that's enough to put on the war paint, the stockings and the high heels.
> 
> ...


I don't think I'm being random at all. That's actually how a lot of women think these days! They claim to only dress for themselves but do dress for others-- they just don't want to be seen as shallow. Believe it or not, when women dress to attract a lot of them would like to think that they can only attract some but not others. I'm well aware that it doesn't work that way.


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

Jellybeans said:


> Why is it a competition? Dressing? I don't get it. I personally don't dress to "out-dress" anyone or to "compete" with them. It's not about being on or off the market. It's about preference, what styles I like, what I prefer to wear.
> 
> I am probably what some would consider a fashion chick. I love to dress stylishly and have always, since I was a little girl, been really big into clothes and know what tends to look good on me. I have fun with it. Maybe it's also part of being a latina, we tend to want to look and dress nice. I dress for me, though. Obviously, if I am going out on a date, I will not show up wearing what I wear to the gym or to clean my house, but that is normal. I feel good about putting myself together, whether I am hanging with my girlfriends, meeting up for dinner with someone, or going to work. I looove a nicely put-together outfit. When I was married, ti was the same thing. I love to look nice and don't think there is anything wrong with that.
> 
> Well, these people may be idiots. If the only reason you pick out each outfit every day is to attract a partner, then you probably have a few screws loose and are insecure. I


I also like to dress nicely, albeit not always in the latest fashions. However, I said competitive since women do tend to be nit-pickers. "You're wearing that belt wrong" or whatever.


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

always_alone said:


> And so what? Women should trade in their poise so they can have more cheap sex? Might be a win for the legions of horny men, but your advice doesn't seem to give much benefit for the woman.
> 
> You may think that a woman wanting a quality suitor is an "obsession" with status, but really, it's just wanting someone who isn't a using and selfish letch.
> 
> Just like men don't want someone who makes them feel inadequate or insecure because of her poise or status.


Clearly, some men like poise while others don't. Assortative mating takes precedence here. If you're a man who likes "poised women" whatever that may be to you, you're going to seek out those women and women are going to seek out men who appreciate it. 

I know a lot of men thought I was uppity, but my cultural upbringing results in a lot of "poised" women. It's a way to weed out less than savory suitors from the parent's perspective, and it's not a good or a bad thing. It just is, just like what people find attractive. 

People would like to believe in this day and age that things like poise and status no longer apply and they still do. We marry people who are of a similar social class, status, background, etc. I don't expect everyone to agree with that, but it is how reality works.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

When I read that, I think of arrogance, not poise. I haven't checked the definition, but if I don't feel comfortable around a woman with poise, it's because she is, "looking down her nose at me". 

That's not poise, to me. That's a, "holier than thou", attitude. I'm guessing there are few men who enjoy that, women too.


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

2ntnuf said:


> When I read that, I think of arrogance, not poise. I haven't checked the definition, but if I don't feel comfortable around a woman with poise, it's because she is, "looking down her nose at me".
> 
> That's not poise, to me. That's a, "holier than thou", attitude. I'm guessing there are few men who enjoy that, women too.


Arrogance and poise are two different things, though. This is what I think of when I use the word poise:

UNTOLD Elizabeth Arden Official Commercial - YouTube


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

A certain friend is the Shoe Queen. She loves heels and I do make an effort with my shoes when going out with her because, well, it's fun. I know she's going to look to the heels I'm wearing, not in a competitive, judging way. It's kind of an appreciation between us. In return I love admiring the style she chooses. I enjoy feeling good in what I'm wearing. I like wearing make-up and the outfit depends on the activity. The coolest thing about Shoe Queen is she'll just as easily rock sneakers, no make-up, loves to camp and snow-board and volunteers and works a corporate job... and loves to experiment with her hair, dresses and heels.

I'd consider my friends to be girly. They enjoy fashion but I wouldn't think of them as fashionista's or high maintenance. What they wear isn't expensive. They're just good at assembling outfits, enjoy make-up, taking pride in their appearance. 

I dig being inspired by them. The most recent incarnation of my wardrobe sees mostly skirts and dresses. Turns out I'm kinda girly myself. In a former life my wardrobe was a leather jacket, jeans and t-shirts. I now enjoy wearing feminine dresses, skirts, various colors and fabrics. 

Recently I knew I'd be meeting up with hubs after a function, and with him in mind, wore my stilettos. But I didn't realize I'd need to walk as far as I did to get a cab there. When I saw him, he asked if I wanted to put my comfy shoes on. I laughed and said yes. Leaned against him, changed into my sneakers... ahh the comfort... of being married perhaps? 

Note, it was my friend, the shoe Queen, who taught my to carry flats when wearing heels lol. Sometimes my dress influences my mood. Sometimes my mood influences my dress. Sometimes it's that my husband has encouraged me to wear my sneakers.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> But women who like fashion are generally the only ones noticing the details that I go into when I get dressed. I also notice other women who go into such details and happily and frequently comment on them if I get a chance.


:iagree:

I do admire the dress sense of other women. I'll compliment others on their outfits. I notice earrings, dresses, shoes. When complimented, some tell me where they bought it or how much it cost, as they bargain shop. I'm hopeless at bargain shopping so I'm always interested to know these things! Yesterday a colleague was wearing a beautiful dress, striking color on her, with colorful heels. Looked gorgeous. She said she felt like a Starburst with all the color. I replied that feeling like a Starburst sounded like a wonderful way to be!

My man looks sharp when he goes to work. He's currently rocking jeans with collared shirt and fitted blazer. It's the relaxed way in which he wears it too, his manner about him, that is so diggable. Oh gawd, he's turning into Hank Moody isn't he?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

always_alone said:


> And so what? Women should trade in their poise so they can have more cheap sex? Might be a win for the legions of horny men, but your advice doesn't seem to give much benefit for the woman.
> 
> You may think that a woman wanting a quality suitor is an "obsession" with status, but really, it's just wanting someone who isn't a using and selfish letch.
> 
> Just like men don't want someone who makes them feel inadequate or insecure because of her poise or status.


Don't mind me, I'm sure. You are blatantly saying that you are sending out a pricing signal to the men of the world: you are offering expensive sex, whether in money, attention, or behavior.

There is a phrase to be wary of: priced out of the market.

Some guys are into that. Others...many others...less so.

And these 'less so' are probably just as loyal as the former.

I am really interested in what you mean by 'letch'


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

JCD said:


> Don't mind me, I'm sure. You are blatantly saying that you are sending out a pricing signal to the men of the world: you are offering expensive sex, whether in money, attention, or behavior.


How does poise translate to pricing? :scratchhead:

Me, I don't send out any signals, and have never been about money. Would it surprise you to know I am sole breadwinner in my household, and have never, ever depended financially on a man?

All I was trying to say is that "sexually accessible" is a very desirable quality in a woman if you are a man, but not necessarily if you are a woman. Quality of suitors is more important than quantity.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

reesespieces said:


> I also like to dress nicely, albeit not always in the latest fashions. However, I said competitive since women do tend to be nit-pickers. "You're wearing that belt wrong" or whatever.


I like clothes and fabrics, and have way too many of them. But I dress for myself, usually for comfort, sometimes for style. I have to present well at work, and so in that sense I do dress for others. And I will choose clothes that make me feel good, both against my skin and when I look in a mirror.

But the "others" I dress for aren't gendered, and I have little patience and interest in nit-picking outfits. In fact I really enjoy it when people experiment with off the wall fashions, and have been known to do so myself.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

reesespieces said:


> I've often been told or read that women only dress and make themselves look nice for other women. Such as wearing nice outfits, putting on a little makeup, doing their hair, wearing heels, tights, etc. I kind of think that's mostly false since women DO things that attract male attention.
> 
> Married-- or single-- when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), does it attract your attention? What is it that attracts your attention? Appreciation of her beauty, poise, form, elegance, sexual appeal, etc.? I'm not talking about women who are wearing tight clothes or wear revealing clothes (getting your attention is obvious).



Interesting question.

I've been in the business of fashion for almost two decades and what I can say it's a bit of both and sometimes it mostly depends on economic strata.

What I know is that our high end customers tend to order clothes based on the cost , type of textile and the cut / style.
[ Fashion house]
They dress the way they do because it makes a statement about their status, firstly to other women and secondly to society at large,that is , " making a fashion statement." [corporate environs etc.] And then a distant third ,to potential male suitors.

Most men generally aren't into haute corture , every woman knows that when she sees another woman wearing a pair of heels with ,
red lacquered soles, => Christian Louboutin => wealth and status.
The average man doesn't know the difference between a 
"Jackie O" look and a power suit. All he knows is that she looks good, but wishes he could get to see what's _under_ the suit.

A man's attention is peripheral and incidental to her main intent and purposes.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

reesespieces said:


> Arrogance and poise are two different things, though. This is what I think of when I use the word poise:
> 
> UNTOLD Elizabeth Arden Official Commercial - YouTube


Not really what I was thinking. I understand what you mean, though. Thanks.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> Note, it was my friend, the shoe Queen, who taught my to carry flats when wearing heels lol.


An absolute must! I always carry a pair of flats for rush hour and if I am going to be driving after a long night of wearing heels. :smthumbup:


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

always_alone said:


> How does poise translate to pricing? :scratchhead:
> 
> Me, I don't send out any signals, and have never been about money. Would it surprise you to know I am sole breadwinner in my household, and have never, ever depended financially on a man?
> 
> All I was trying to say is that "sexually accessible" is a very desirable quality in a woman if you are a man, but not necessarily if you are a woman. Quality of suitors is more important than quantity.


Let's not kid ourselves. In the final analysis, a man is looking for access to your sex. You seem to be saying that putting large barriers up to the same improves the 'quality' of your suitor. Perhaps, perhaps not. It also makes you more 'expensive'. 

And note, I put SEVERAL ways it makes you more expensive, not just money. If I need to cure cancer, write a sonnet, minster to orphans, and take you dancing just for a smile, a hug and a coquettish look, that is a very low 'ROI' (return on investment) time wise. If I have to dress to impress every single time, with hair perfect and polished gentlemanly manners, that is an effort which makes you 'more expensive' than a girl who is happy with a button down and clean unwrinkled jeans.

So yes, pricing.

Now where your strategy REALLY pays off is if you are looking for that 'One True Love'. If some poor schlub is thunderstruck by you, possessing you, earning you, AND he figures out how to do it (part of the poise game seems to be to keep the man guessing) than yes, he will bend over backwards AND invest so damned much into you that cheating, losing or disappointing you would be very foolish.

IF you can find that One True Love.

The Downside? There is no 'gentle growth of love' potential here. You already have those darned barriers firmly in place. I believe MOST relationships are the later, where you slowly start to see the positive features of the other person and get to understand them. But they need to be interested and encouraged. Poise seems to belie that.

That chick from the Elizabeth Arden commercial seemed...inaccessible and expensive in her dress. How much time would I spend seeing if she is interested? Not a lot.

But I am probably not the demographic she is looking for.

The problem is not the men. It is that your sisters are satisfied with far less.

If my end game is love, sex and affection and I have girl one who wants me to dance attendance for 9 months for a law partner, vs. a paralegal who wants a month or two for not substantially different experiences (and I am NOT talking about sex. I am talking about the quality of the women), the issue IS pricing.

The only man who will make that effort is one who is ALSO incredibly status conscious.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I find a woman who puts effort into her dress very impressive.

Even I am not immune to status and what that entails. There is an allure to 'the forbidden'.

The question is: is the allure enough to make me want to make the effort?

THAT very much depends on the woman. I think a good many women think that their untouchable dignity is something that is a positive to men in general, and I am not sure they are correct.

Except for her status, which is unrelated to dignity, I can't see how it adds much. Loyalty is not dignity, though it's the closest trait. Love is not dignity. The effort she might take to take care of me seems wildly at odds to her dignity.

So the principles which add to a woman in my eyes don't generally correspond to dignity.


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## reesespieces (Aug 3, 2009)

JCD said:


> I find a woman who puts effort into her dress very impressive.
> 
> Even I am not immune to status and what that entails. There is an allure to 'the forbidden'.
> 
> ...


You do realize that there are other qualities women may have which can intimidate men other than poise? I have talked to men in their 30's and 40's who have said women who seem sexually confident are intimidating, and women who were very attractive are intimidating. Not all men are going to find all women approachable. Not all men are going to put in the same effort to get a poised woman versus some other woman. But to label certain characteristics as "bad" isn't really constructive especially since I'm talking about a situation where a man is noticing a woman, versus knowing her. After all, it would be quite absurd for me to suggest that the casual Cali girl should change her traits to be more attractive to a wider variety of men if the men she's attracting are appealing enough to her. The whole thing over poise in this thread is being beaten to a dead horse and we get it-- not all men like that.Time to move on.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

JCD said:


> Let's not kid ourselves. In the final analysis, a man is looking for access to your sex. You seem to be saying that putting large barriers up to the same improves the 'quality' of your suitor. Perhaps, perhaps not. It also makes you more 'expensive'.


?? I think you are confusing "poise" with game-playing narcissist. And if you're judging all that by the way a woman is dressed, you might want to take a closer look. The cover doesn't necessarily tell you everything about the book. 

And again, being "accessible" may very well be a desirable quality in a woman for a man. Why wouldn't he like getting everything he wants without investing any time, energy, or thought? But that still doesn't make it so for a woman. Sure, if she's interested in a "wider demographic", it may help. But wider is definitely not better.

The fact that other women may give you whatever you want without you having to do anything is not at all a problem. That's just their choice about what they want to do. If you're both happy, then grand. What's to complain about when other women choose differently?

(oops, sorry OP!)


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

My thoughts cause I know you were dyin to know *wendy willams "how you doin"*

Women dress for other women. Guys don't care about nail polish, guys don't care about shoes--I know I know--, guys don't care about rings or earrings, guys don't understand fashion. 

Guys dress for other guys. You know when you went to buy that death note or dr who shirt, women aren't usually into that stuff, but other men are, and you want to out awesome your friends or that guy behind you in line. 

I think once you are in a committed relationship it's 50/50. It's always a competition. It's an ego boost. You want to look your best with your person, and if another chick is rockin her dress and heels, or another dude is killin em' in some tight gear...you tend to think "I ain't doin it right". 

I get more compliments on my dresses from women, I get half and half from men and women on my shoes and not 1 guy ever said he liked my nail polish lol. 

My husband bought a spinner belt (when it was new and relevant) not one single chick ever said anything. But dudes were droolin and telling him how cool and awesome it was. I doubt very much he bought it thinking "aww yea, my chick gona love this". He just wanted to show out. 

Just my thoughts


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

always_alone said:


> ?? I think you are confusing "poise" with game-playing narcissist. And if you're judging all that by the way a woman is dressed, you might want to take a closer look. The cover doesn't necessarily tell you everything about the book.
> 
> And again, being "accessible" may very well be a desirable quality in a woman for a man. Why wouldn't he like getting everything he wants without investing any time, energy, or thought? But that still doesn't make it so for a woman. Sure, if she's interested in a "wider demographic", it may help. But wider is definitely not better.
> 
> ...


:rofl:


I have yet to meet a woman who doesn't require 'anything'. Women, in generally, are FAR more choosy than men in what they demand from a mate...at least it seems that way from this side of the fence.

And certainly poise has it's place. Having a heavy drinking, belching, farting, overly flirtatious girl on my arm at a party doesn't particularly appeal either.

What I was trying to point out was that as a character trait, women seem to value it more than men...part of that choosiness thing. Because as you describe it, it's something to make men's lives HARDER, not easier. Keep those men who CAN'T deal with a poised woman away.

So to put it in a list of attractants like fashion sense, smell, hair, and attitude etc, seems to be a case of 'one of these things is not like the other, one of these things just ISN'T the same...'

Didn't mean to start a fight.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Pandakiss said:


> My thoughts cause I know you were dyin to know


...goes without saying... seeing as you're TAM's Shoe Queen!

Dr Who mention too? Props.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

heartsbeating said:


> ...goes without saying... seeing as you're TAM's Shoe Queen!
> 
> Dr Who mention too? Props.


You've been in that TARDIS too long!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Pandakiss said:


> My thoughts cause I know you were dyin to know *wendy willams "how you doin"*
> 
> Women dress for other women. Guys don't care about nail polish, guys don't care about shoes--I know I know--, guys don't care about rings or earrings, guys don't understand fashion.
> 
> ...


That's funny. I have many times complimented a woman on her nail polish. But mostly women who are outside my 'target demographic', I.e. ones whom I won't sleep with.

Why? Because men have gotten into trouble by complimenting women on their dress...or at least creeped them out and got put in the 'skeevy player' box.

"Gee Panda, that skirt looks nice on you" usually seems to be translated into 'Girl' as "yeah baaabeee...your booty has got it goooin ON under that skirt. *kissing sounds*". Or at least that is the male fear. So they err on the side of caution. You can see it in the woman's face sometimes. Women always look for an ulterior motive. Plus it seems disrespectful if she is part of a couple to compliment her beauty. The guy will not likely be amused.

So your dearth of compliments has little to do with men's observational abilities and more to do with the politics of fear.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

Yea guys like my pencil skirt, and guys do tell me they like my dress....to me, I made the right choice and hubby is really diggin it. 

Sometimes guys are cute, uh....umm...I...I like your...uh skirt...too funny. But in a death note shirt or sailor moon shirt, guys have no problem pointing and shouting oooo I love that anime/manga and firing off 21 questions about it. 

But I agree it can be like heeyyy baby so I pass the buck and say oh thanks my husband picked it out as I point at him and wave.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

reesespieces said:


> Married-- or single-- when you see a lady looking nice (whatever that may be), does it attract your attention? What is it that attracts your attention? Appreciation of her beauty, poise, form, elegance, sexual appeal, etc.? I'm not talking about women who are wearing tight clothes or wear revealing clothes (getting your attention is obvious).


I really appreciate a woman wearing classy women clothes. I wouldn't call it sexual attraction, I just appreciate someone dressing nice. So few women wear nylons (the real kind) these days that it's a treat to see one who is. Especially when they have the choice to wear jeans or slacks and they choose to dress like a lady. I can admire what a lady is wearing without lusting after her. I don't care to go any further then appreciating her beauty for a second or two.


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