# Husband or Son - need to choose.



## Willowfin (Jan 2, 2012)

Met my husband when my son was 20 months old. Now married 14 years and have three girls (11,10 and 8). My son has called my husband 'Dad' since he was 3. The problem is that my husband hates my son. Nothing my son does is right and it has been this way since my son was 11. It is getting worse and I know I have to make a choice. My son is a decent lad (almost 18) doesn't smoke or touch drugs and only takes a drink if he's at a party. My husband begrudges everything I do for my son, but I treat all the kids the same. He doesn't like friends coming to the house (because of where we live - it doesn't happen very often). He is verbally abusive to my son - saying terrible things - really putting him down and calling him all sorts of offensive things. My husband and I have split for short periods of time over this, but with the three girls, it's very difficult to stay apart. He is a good dad to the girls - which makes it all the more obvious with my son. It has come to blows before and once when I was away (for one night) it ended up that they were fighting at the top of the stairs and tumbling down while my eldest daughter (9 at the time) was screaming crying, watching them, trying to call me on my mobile phone. My h. used to always apologise but I don't think he felt that bad about it. As my son is almost 18 - I am afraid that something terrible will happen. My son has also admitted that he is finding it harder and harder not to punch his 'dad' when the abuse starts. Tonight my h. said something unforgivable about my son - saying that he wished he'd get beaten to death some night when he's out - but we'd never get that lucky. (a similar incident happened in our town in the past few days). How can someone say such a thing and wish such horror on both my son and our whole family? My husband did offer last week to go to councilling - but I think it is gone too far to rectifiy the situation. My h has a good job, and I know people would never ever think he would behave in such a way. I have tried speaking to his mum about it - and she has tried to talk to him, but nothing has changed. My son will leave for college in about 7 months time and he told me he will never come back to the house if his 'dad' is here. My son is very loving and we are close, he is also very close to his sisters. My mother also lives with us (she has her own section of the house) and would try to divert a verbal confrontation - but my husband has now told her to mind her own business and that it's his house she living in. My eldest daughter 11, had asked me if it was just my husband, son and I - would I stay with my husband? I of course was horrified and knew that I wouldn't. Her reply was - well mum, it shouldn't make any difference that the 3 of us are here. 

I know what I should do - I just need to find the courage to keep him out of the house for more than the usual 2 or 3 weeks. I am worried that either my daughters will hate me for breaking up the family - or my son will hate me for trying to keep it together. I know I stay for financial security - and I too will hate myself for that.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Willow, welcome to the TAM forum. I am so sorry your family is suffering so. The appalling, dangerous behavior you describe indicates that your H should be seeing a clinical psychologist, not a marriage counselor. It indicates that his issues go far beyond a lack of communication skills and may well be caused by a serious personality disorder (PD). In any event, I agree with you that you should protect your 17 y.o. son by separating from your H at least until your son is off to college. 

The dysfunctional behavior you describe -- his being loving to some people and hateful to others -- sounds like black-white thinking. This all-or-nothing thinking occurs when a person categorizes everyone (including himself) as "all good" or "all bad." Moreover, such a person usually is capable of recategorizing someone from one polar extreme ("with me") to the other ("against me") in only 10 seconds based on an idle comment or minor infraction. In addition, he frequently will use extreme expressions such as "you always..." and "you never...."

Yet, if that really describes your H's behavior accurately, you should be seeing him acting that way toward some other people other than your son. And that behavior should have started very soon after your honeymoon period ended. If that is the case, one real danger is that he will become increasingly physically abusive to your son. Moreover, he may start treating your daughters the same way as soon as they reach the teen years and start having minds of their own. 

I therefore ask whether you've seen this B-W thinking applied to folks other than your son? Has he been abusive to you? Have you ever had to walk on eggshells around your H to avoid triggering another temper tantrum? Does he have a strong fear of abandonment (i.e., show a lack of trust in the form of jealousy)? Do you find that it is impossible to sit down and have a calm, rational discussion about sensitive matters?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You can't choose your son? Eesh.

You have to protect your children. You are allowing your son to be abused and your son will grow to resent you for it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Willow, 

Do you work outside the home? If not I think you need to get a job asap. 

"I just need to find the courage to keep him out of the house for more than the usual 2 or 3 weeks." What does this mean? Does you husband leave often for 2 or 3 weeks?

It's not unusual for fathers to start having trouble with boys when the boy enters the teen years. It's even more likely to happen when the boy is not their biological son. In these cases the son and father lock horns and fight for years. 

You husband has threatened your son. Your husband needs to get out fo the house NOW or he might cause a fight that will end up eihter having someone badly hurt or even dead. And thus the other in prison.

Please talk to an attorney ASAP about how to get your husband out of the house, get a restraining order against him. Protect your son. YOu have let this go on for far too many years.


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## rogergrant (Dec 7, 2011)

Gosh, if he's really physically attacking your son, that probably constitutes assault and battery. I do think you need to be honest about the situation with yourself. Do you think it has something to do with your son himself, or is there some lingering resentment of him related to him being the child of another man? Is your son equally poorly behaved to your husband, or is your husband really the one at fault. I really does come off like your son is just sitting there being a punching bag. If that really is true, I think you're obligated to get him out of there somehow. If that involves you leaving as well, then that's really something you have to think about. 

You say that your mother lives with you as well? I think that there's some information missing from this story. I'm not judging, but I'll bet there are some missing details.


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## Willowfin (Jan 2, 2012)

Uptown - you have described my husband with such shocking accuracy that it has sent shivers up my spine. He is very much B&W. He responds to any constructive critisim or slight as a huge deal (against him) and everything is fine when we are praising him. So once we are praising etc - the atmosphere in the house is fine, as a result I find that I often 'give in' to him just for a peaceful life. There is no reasoning with him - ie: If my son wants to go out (party or something) he will just say no - I will ask who he's going with and how will he get home or does he need to be picked up etc. He won't even hear my son out. 

Before we were married I got pregnant (his child) - My son and I were living with my parents and felt I had put them thru enough and I wouldn't be able to support another baby (financially and mentally). My h. (the father) refused to support me in any way and I felt unable to tell my parents so I had an abortion. (I made what I thought was the best decision at the time in very difficult circumstances - hindsight is a great thing and I also had a late miscarraige during our marraige so emotionally I've paid my dues.) 

We got back together as I felt unable to be with anybody else and I guess I just wanted to have a family unit for my son. We got married even though I felt we weren't 100% ready for that commitment. We have had huge ups and downs during those years. Yes - there were physical fights (between him and I) during the early years. We never had an easy relationship. (Honeymoon period consisted of him sending me emails about divorce information). 
So yes (@ Rodgergrant) plenty of details missing in first post. My mother now lives with us as she broke her hip and is 80. My h deals very badly with stress and over the years this has resulted in many a family occassion being spoilt by his childish behaviour. (Christmases, birthdays etc etc). He has only one 'friend' who he would see perhaps once every couple of months. He doesn't really welcome people (other than his family) to our house and stays upstairs when my friends or family visit. He has gotten worse with age. He says he often feels on the outside of the family and I would say that he has put himself there (not in a mean way - but that is the truth).

The action towards my son started around the time when we were having financial difficulties and I can only assume that my h took his stress out on my son. I had hoped over the years things would get better as the financial stress went away - the 'habit' we have all fallen into seems to have stayed. (habit being - h treating son badly and me as a referee hoping things wd improve). He often leaves for a couple of weeks and comes back as the girls are missing him living in the house. (they wd see him during that time away from the house). I do find it impossible to have any calm conversation with him as it always always end up in a row. I am alot calmer now than I was during the early years when I would cry and get upset and he'd get a reaction to his 'leaving' . Now I just let him get on with it and leave. I am on a low dose antid. 

My h is a very insular person and altho clever, is not sociable. We have lived in this town for over 10 years and he has not integrated in any way (he works in the same co for 20 years in the city). One of the reasons I have stayed with him is the girls but I do see that he has used a bit of name calling with the eldest. (She told me about a fight he had with my son when I wasn't in and he kept calling her a 'rat' for a few days after). So I can totally agree that his behaviour will transfer to the girls when they get older. Thanks for taking the time to post your advice and thoughts - I don't love my h because altho I repect that he is sucessful in his work life, I don't repect him as a person.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Willow, the behaviors you describe -- the B-W thinking, temper tantrums, lack of friendships, lack of impulse control, irrational explanations, verbal and physical abuse, and the push-you-away then pull-you-back behavior -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Whether they are so severe as to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full-blown BPD (i.e., "having the disorder") is a determination that only a professional can make. 

This does not imply, however, that you cannot spot the red flags for a person with strong BPD traits. Strong occurrences of such traits are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse and temper tantrums. I therefore suggest you read about the nine BPD traits and see if, in addition to the traits you've already described, you find others that sound very familiar. If you want a book, I recommend _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the #1 best-selling BPD book targeted to the nonBPD spouses. 

An easy place to start reading, here on the TAM forum, is my description of what it is like to live with a typical BPDer. My post is in Midian's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, you may want to follow the link at the bottom of it to another post of mine providing additional information. If you have questions, I will be glad to try to answer them or point you to good online resources with answers. Also, I will be glad to point you to a website where hundreds of people converse in a forum dedicated to folks raising a child with a parent that has strong BPD traits.


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## Willowfin (Jan 2, 2012)

Uptown - thanks for the advice and read your post in 'My List of Hell'. While I knew my h's behaviour wasn't normal - I now know it goes way beyond 'another bad mood. I realise now that hoping they will eventually get on is in vain. I also certainly will not put another one of the kids in the firing line when he decides to target someone else. I will also consider supervised access with the girls going forward. (I asked him to leave on the 2nd which he did.) I knew already that we needed to seperate but reading your post made me realise that his behaviour won't change without months or even years of professional help. Thanks again.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Willowfin said:


> I also certainly will not put another one of the kids in the firing line when he decides to target someone else. I will also consider supervised access with the girls going forward.


Willow, because you will be sharing custody of children with him, I suggest you bookmark a link to BPDfamily.com, which is targeted to ex-partners like you. It has eight message boards, one of which is called "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD." At some point in the future, you may want to seek advice from the numerous other folks who are having to share custody with a BPDer parent. Another useful resource is the book (released last July) called _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist. _Please take care, Willow.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

that_girl said:


> You can't choose your son? Eesh.
> 
> You have to protect your children. You are allowing your son to be abused and your son will grow to resent you for it.


Agreed, my own mother left me because of her boyfriend, leaving me to a life on the streets. Unlike others in the same situation I came far since my past but to this day I still have problems due to it. Others, they have worst.

@OP

You will NEVER escape from parental responsibility, I learnt that once I had my daughter. You can struggle, you can shut it off, but it will always be there.

I carry with me the blood on my hands of what I've done to struggle to survive as a kid left due to his own mother's selfish lusts, the blood also on my mother's hands. Is that what you want? Children must come first, ALWAYS.


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