# Are you ok with your spouse having a friend/friends of the opposite sex?



## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

Are you ok with your spouse having a friend/friends of the opposite sex?

*Marriage sucks! *


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Do the same rules apply to you?

So do you have a legion of male friends and is he ok with that?

I don’t like the idea at all, most cheating comes from opportunity and that’s a lot of opportunity there.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Also… does he have many male friends as well?

A man after a certain age that seeks out so many females for friends reminds me a lot of the gay men I used to work with. Personally I would find it a bit queasy and strange.

My dad was a bit off and a bit strange and was always prancing around like a rooster around females and we all suspected he was a little closeted.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

We both have friends of the opposite gender with no worries.

A couple of years ago my wife went on holiday and stayed with a single male friend from college days. No issues with that 

Every year I go on a ski trip made up singles and couples. My wife has no issues with this.

Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

Would you cheat with a friend of the opposite sex? 
I do think friendship is possible with the opposite sex. And sex with a friend would be weird. We aren't all cheaters in waiting.

But in your case, probably not. Or more like no way, if there is proven attraction.
How do you know they are attracted to each other though? 

These don't sound like old friends but new, so how have these friendships been formed? Do they share the same interests?
Does he want to text or chat with them often? Or meet them for coffee?

How is he about you having opposite sex friends?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

If it was an old friend that she had known for years WITHOUT any sexual history then I would have no problem with it. However if it was a new male friend who she suddenly wanted to hang out with that would be a big no.
I have to say that my best friend is a woman who I have never had any sexual relationship with.


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## Fixer (Jun 20, 2021)

Both straight and both attractive, given enough time 1:1 = EA -> PA. The attractive bit might not matter either.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

friends I WOULD LOVE my wife to have friends both men and women , and we can read each other like a book to know if there was anything to hide , 
but first what is most important is having the self confidence to know you the world to the other person if you don't have that it is not very stable 
if you can't walk down the street together without feeling jealous 

Friend or friend IS IT THE TYPE FRIEND that he can speak to on the phone without having to leave the room , the type friend that you can meet out with or without your husband 
My wife had a friend that was a good friend then he started to become a helpful friend and it can be nice to help friends and others , so did not think bad on that , things moved along and he satrted to talk about his wife his marriage and went as far as saying he would like to stay married to her for ever , but explained how he did not have sex with 5 years and they sleep in different rooms , 
my wife put two and two together and came up with he wanted her to replace his sexless side of the marriage she called him out on it and told him it was not on he got very up set and not only did he stop been friends he stopped his account on facebook , 

if you husband can be trusted and he keeps you in the loop about things does not try to hide calls messages your have nothing to worry about , 
if he is going to cheat he will cheat even if he is not a friend with the other person , 
men are that bit different to women where they don't have to have to know the woman many men can even have sex and not even be attracted to the woman , , not all men but a good many 
why do you think some men can go on social media and jam up every woman, all types of woman on there like every photo they post , often even post the exact same line to all , 
they use the shot gun system fire enough shots and hope one bird gets shot , these men only want a warm ---- .

if he is only staying with you because he has not a better do you even want him . be his best woman his best friend his best everything be a porn star mistress and make him yours and he can have all the friends in the world , 

the only thing I worry about in your post is you first line 


Unknown2u said:


> My husband wants to have women for friends


 is he not friends with this woman I see men mostly at work friends with women they become good friends but it is just that , it happened over time it is the wants that is the big word , 
I don't want to have friends I like to have friends but I don't have a WANT


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

and it was I voted I blindly trust mu spouse but I would leave the blindly bit out , I know she is a sexy woman and I KNOW as we say you would not miss a cut out of a open sliced pan , I know men are attracted to her but I know her better and in the same way she can read my mind I can read hers we can finish each others sentence , no locks on phones no lock on pc windows can be let open we use the same password or share the same profile on some forums


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I was friends with a guy for about 6 years when I was younger, he was in a long term relationship, he later married her. It turned physical 😣


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes but there are boundaries:

1) Full transparency in all communication, no secrets.
2) No alone time without our partner's consent.
3) If one of us decides one of our friends is not good for us, they are dropped.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

Are these friends, friends of the marriage (they respect boundaries), or not friends of the marriage? You might take a look at the late Dr. Shirley Glass's book _NOT Just Friends_ for more information, or her website: Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends" -- there is an interesting quiz here: Dr. Shirley Glass - Quiz: Has Your Friendship Become an Emotional Affair?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It sounds like your husband isn't looking for friends - he's looking for girlfriends. News flash: married men don't get to have girlfriends. If he wants to live the single life of flirting with various women, then he needs to be single. He sounds immature.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

I think there are 2 questions worth answering here. The first one is, can married people ever be just friends w/ the opposite sex, the answer is yes. The second is, is your H a good candidate for being just friends, I think the answer is no, though that is based on some pretty brief info.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

My wife and I used to have opposite sex friends, then we both slept with them. So... I'm gonna go with a "no". 

And based on what I've seen with friends, many of them shouldn't have opposite sex friends either. Some people can and everything is fine (until it's not), but other people can't. Your husband doesn't seem to be a good candidate for it. 

The same rules should apply to you though. You can't be a hypocrite.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I answered maybe, because the details and context are important. 

I have female friends and my wife has male friends. However, under no circumstances should either of us spend significant amounts of time completely alone with these friends and we should never be talking/texting with them on the "down low". Honestly, neither one of us would even consider doing this. What hairyhead described, his wife spending a weekend solo with a single male college friend. No way! I love and trust my wife, but that falls into the realm of dating and worse, going away to a hotel for a weekend. If my wife wanted to do that with an old friend, she would ask me to come with her. 

In the case of what the OP stated here, no freaking way! You say there is a mutual attraction with these women. That alone is a major problem. How do you know he is attracted to these women? Why are you married if "he falls for every chick he sees and vice versa." Given this, if you really want to stay in a committed, monogamous marriage with this person I believe there needs to be zero tolerance for and "friends" of the opposite sex. It sounds like he needs some kind of validation from these women and that need will most certainly grow into a physical affair.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I have to be honest - I've never had a male friend who didn't eventually hit on me, cry that he was in love with me, or hint around that he wanted more than just friendship.

Not even one.


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

Every relationship dynamic is different. So what works for one couple might not work for another. I had/have pretty bad retroactive jealously. Given my wife’s track record of dating about 10 people in the year before we met and sleeping with half of them, no way in hell I’d be ok with her having male friends. Luckily she doesn’t have any. But she showed that she is very susceptible to male flattery when she was single so it’s definitely not something I’d be ok with now.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

So, I looked at your other two posts. This is from the first: 

_I have been with my husband for over 23 years and am 38 hubby is 37 (husband 4 months younger than me). We have had a lot of ups and downs but I love him despite everything. We got together at the age of 15 and he pulled me in with all his love and promises.
His words in a nutshell:
"I have a fantasy of having everything...you get what you want but I still keep you and you make your delicious food for all of my guest and we have sex together. yes most of my guest will be women. I love you you are special I can't replace you. I don't want to loose you. Yes I want all these women to hug me and kiss me. I can't guarantee nor promise I won't cheat on you because I want their hugs and kisses and their juices inside my mouth. you are such a good woman to stay with me. You have every right to hate me and you should of been with another guy. All my friends wanted to be with you and they would have married you and given you kids and a house. I am a monster I am so sorry. I can't give you my love and either give it to all of them or no one. I just go to get coffee to get attention from an 18 year old. I am wanted and I am in my prime. You have made this all possible because you are such a good woman you have made it easy. You made me attractive. If it had been another woman I would have had four children already and be miserable. You are the sacrifice so that I can have this. My friend use to F so many random girls and I didn't and hell yeah I wanted to. I am always manipulating you." _

The other post is about him picking his mother over you and forcing you to agree to move in to a place with him and her. 

Now you are concerned about him wanting female "friends" where there is mutual attraction.

His little fantasy speech sounds like he is polyamorous. Certainly he doesn't sound like he is actually committed to you. I find it hard to believe that he hasn't been cheating on you. The real question is why in the world are you still married? I'm sure you are scared to be alone since you have been with this guy since you were 15, but you are with a bad man, plain and simple.


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## coquille (May 8, 2018)

Unknown2u said:


> My husband wants to have women for friends ...these are women who are attracted to him and he is attracted to.
> Personally there is no way in hell I would ever be ok with this especially knowing how he falls for every chick he sees and vice versa.
> 
> If you are ok with your partner having friends of the opposite sex do you actually believe that their relationship wont lead to cheating?
> ...


Given that there is mutual attraction between your husband and these women, and that your husband falls easily for other women, then the answer is no. He can't be friends with them.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

It's one thing if you and your husband had opposite sex friends before you met and married, and your behavior and boundaries with those friends has remained consistent, but seeking out opposite sex friends that you are attracted to and you know are attracted to you during your marriage is terrible idea IMO. You're literally putting yourself in a compromising and tempting situation. That's just me.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Opposite sex friends is playing with fire. Exhibit A is Cici. Her friend was in the friend zone but obviously wanted more. 

Thinking back to before I was married, I remember one girl that was part of my social circle that was NOT my type at all but I started to really dig her. I had to dial it back to stop myself from ruining a friendship. Years later, she confessed that she had a major crush on me back then. I had no idea.

So add me to the h3ll no list.


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## Pip’sJourney (Mar 17, 2021)

I am kind of dealing with this right now. Where my h works is almost all women. He is a teacher and has mainly kept to himself. Because of Covid, the teachers created a group chat group so that they could support each other. He is really good with tech stuff so obviously they asked him for help. The group chat group has everyone's phone number in it. I really do not have ANY issue with him being in that group, but I found that he was having PMs with individual women. Side conversations were happening.. and suddenly deleted when I saw them. I do not know what exactly was said. However, why delete if they were so innocent? These teachers.. some are single.. some are not..some are divorced..there were maybe 4. 

My thing is that they do not know me. They need to be mutual friends unless they were friends before we were together. I do have 2 male friends.. but they are friends with him now too. I also have no side texts with my friends.. one is gay and the other is better friends with my h than me. I have known these two guys for more than 35 years. The teachers are new friends that I have never met. Plus he never let me read any of those messages. Claims it is all innocent.

For this reason I say hell no.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Unknown2u said:


> My husband wants to have women for friends ...these are women who are attracted to him and he is attracted to.
> Personally there is no way in hell I would ever be ok with this especially knowing how he falls for every chick he sees and vice versa.
> 
> If you are ok with your partner having friends of the opposite sex do you actually believe that their relationship wont lead to cheating?
> ...


I've never had an issue with this. Aside from being open and poly, there have been plenty of friends of the opposite sex for all of us, for whom there has never even hints of attraction. 

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> I've never had an issue with this. Aside from being open and poly, there have been plenty of friends of the opposite sex for all of us, for whom there has never even hints of attraction.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


Might be a problem for someone in a monogamous marriage and the spouse and "friends" have a mutual attraction for one another.


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## overrnbw (Jun 16, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> We both have friends of the opposite gender with no worries.
> 
> A couple of years ago my wife went on holiday and stayed with a single male friend from college days. No issues with that
> 
> ...


Lol damn.

Why get married if you guys want to take trips with other single people without your spouse? 

I don't get it.


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## overrnbw (Jun 16, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> een with another guy. All my friends wanted to be with you and they would have married you and given you kids and a house. I am a monster I am so sorry. I can't give you my love and either give it to all of t


He is probably only poly when it involves him stepping out. That's usually how it works and they don't want to tolerate other people for their spouse.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Pip’sJourney said:


> I am kind of dealing with this right now. Where my h works is almost all women. He is a teacher and has mainly kept to himself. Because of Covid, the teachers created a group chat group so that they could support each other. He is really good with tech stuff so obviously they asked him for help. The group chat group has everyone's phone number in it. I really do not have ANY issue with him being in that group, but I found that he was having PMs with individual women. Side conversations were happening.. and suddenly deleted when I saw them. I do not know what exactly was said. However, why delete if they were so innocent? These teachers.. some are single.. some are not..some are divorced..there were maybe 4.
> 
> My thing is that they do not know me. They need to be mutual friends unless they were friends before we were together. I do have 2 male friends.. but they are friends with him now too. I also have no side texts with my friends.. one is gay and the other is better friends with my h than me. I have known these two guys for more than 35 years. The teachers are new friends that I have never met. Plus he never let me read any of those messages. Claims it is all innocent.
> 
> For this reason I say hell no.


Recover the texts. Deep down you know there is only one real reason to delete text, so YOU don't see them. Who else would possibly see them?


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Nope. Outside of a work acquaintance neither my wife or I have friends of the opposite sex, nor a desire to. We just don't feel it's appropriate for our relationship.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I wish I had a dollar for every cheating story at TAM about opposite sex “friends”. I could care less how friendly it seems .... I like sex and my wife is really cute. Opportunity need not be tempted. Neither of us will EVER have opposite sex friends. It’s not that I’m jealous..... I’m just not an idiot....... don’t tempt biological forces.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

We both basically can't stand most other people in general, so problem solved.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> His little fantasy speech sounds like he is polyamorous.


To me, it sounds like he's a narcissist. That speech makes me want to puke.

To the OP - my best advice is *RUN!*


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

We've both always had opposite sex friends. My ex and I had them, too, but my ex eventually did not keep good boundaries (mostly because she was bipolar, not because of a character flaw). I can be friends with a woman and not cross a boundary even if there is mutual attraction. Of course - as most here know - we don't _have to_ maintain boundaries if we don't want to; we can have sex with others as long as we discuss it first.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> I wish I had a dollar for every cheating story at TAM about opposite sex “friends”.


If anyone's offering, I'll take a dollar for every story about non-cheating OSFs.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Benbutton said:


> Nope. Outside of a work acquaintance neither my wife or I have friends of the opposite sex, nor a desire to. We just don't feel it's appropriate for our relationship.


I agree. Let's be honest, sex/attraction is the main reason guys talk to women. (outside of work). Are any of these female "friends" 300lbs? Of course not, what would be the point?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Unknown2u said:


> ...he falls for every chick he sees and vice versa.


Well, there ya go. Sounds like hubs wants to step out and get a little side action.

Are you going to stay with this guy? And, if so, WHY????


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Doing things with members of the opposite sex with whom there is mutual attraction is called dating.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> I agree. Let's be honest, sex/attraction is the main reason guys talk to women. (outside of work). Are any of these female "friends" 300lbs? Of course not, what would be the point?


This made me laugh so hard.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

I just found out today that my husband is friends with a girl who has an Only Fans and sells feet pics online. He was friends with her in real life before the Only Fans and feet pics started, FYI. Hmm....


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Unknown2u said:


> My husband wants to have women* for friends* ...these are women who are attracted to him and he is attracted to.
> Personally there is no way in hell I would ever be ok with this especially knowing how he falls for every chick he sees and vice versa.


He has two beta orbiters that he friendzoned. Women do it all the time. See no problem.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Might be a problem for someone in a monogamous marriage and the spouse and "friends" have a mutual attraction for one another.


That's one of the reasons I said "aside from being poly." Even were I monogamous, I have seen too many, and had too many, friendships between people of the opposite sex without sexual attraction, to automatically assume any such friendship with my spouse would be suspicious. Frankly, if your level of trust is such that your spouse can't have friends of the opposite sex, I question the foundation of that marriage.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

overrnbw said:


> Lol damn.
> 
> Why get married if you guys want to take trips with other single people without your spouse?
> 
> I don't get it.


Did it occur to you that maybe it's the spouse who doesn't want to go? Also did you note that there are couples as well on the trip? If it was only singles, I'd see more reason to worry. But why would a person want to stop their spouse from enjoying time with their friends, but not want to join themselves. IOW, the concept of, "I don't want to go, therefore you can't go either", is a selfish one.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> That's one of the reasons I said "aside from being poly." Even were I monogamous, I have seen too many, and had too many, friendships between people of the opposite sex without sexual attraction, to automatically assume any such friendship with my spouse would be suspicious. Frankly, if your level of trust is such that your spouse can't have friends of the opposite sex, I question the foundation of that marriage.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


It's not that there's a lack of trust. It just isn't appropriate behavior for someone in a committed relationship. Obviously their are exceptions, but it's human nature that when people of the opposite sex, assuming they are heterosexual, spend lots of time alone together there's a high likelihood of an attraction developing. All you have to do is look around on this website and you'll see hundreds of examples where friends turned into affairs. A man and a woman going out together by themselves to dinner, movies or away for a weekend is dating and isn't appropriate for someone who's married in a monogamous relationship. If a woman is texting a man other than her husband 10 times as much as she texts him something's wrong.

If nothing else there's an appearance that's something is going on. I would say 99% of people that see a man and a woman sitting at a dinner table together in a restaurant are assuming they are there on a date and are seeing each other. And that's because they are out on a date together, a form of courtship, and is not appropriate for a couple that is in a committed relationship or married.

Now if a wife says to her


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

overrnbw said:


> Lol damn.
> 
> Why get married if you guys want to take trips with other single people without your spouse?
> 
> I don't get it.


For starters she doesn't ski, or road cycle (that's a boy's trip) and i don't know her friend from college. Plus she is a teacher and had time during the long summer break.

We have holidays together as well.

We are in the UK where we get proper holidays unlike the States. I have 40 days of holdays.

Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

x


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> I just found out today that my husband is friends with a girl who has an Only Fans and sells feet pics online. He was friends with her in real life before the Only Fans and feet pics started, FYI. Hmm....


I like attractive feet on a woman but not to the point of needing pictures or sucking toes.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

x


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

x


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

x


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

x


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Unknown2u said:


> I have zero friends in this world. He said he would leave me if I treated him the way he treats me. He says "Do what you want and we will see if we are still together". His dad was a big cheater and his mom got cheated on by all her bf's so I don't think it would be rational for me to assume he wouldn't cheat.


Your husband is treating you like crap and has zero respect for you. He has all but said I don't care about you, leave if you want, stay if you want, I don't give a rat's ass. He has no real love for you. What you describe sounds like emotional abuse to me. I don't see any reason for you to still be married to him. You shouldn't be asking if everyone is okay with their spouse having friends of the opposite sex, you should be asking what is the quickest way to get out of the marriage.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> If it was an old friend that she had known for years WITHOUT any sexual history then I would have no problem with it. However if it was a new male friend who she suddenly wanted to hang out with that would be a big no.
> I have to say that my best friend is a woman who I have never had any sexual relationship with.


Just curious, how much time do you spend alone with your female friend and what kinds of things do you do when alone with her? Also, do you text/message her as much or more than your wife?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Can men and women just be friends? Short answer is yes, of course they can.

Do OSF need strong boundaries and to be managed differently to other friendships? Yes, of course they do. It should be obvious why.

OSF can lead to affairs, that neither party ever intended to happen.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

x


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Unknown2u said:


> Yes I am in hell currently with so much happening all at once. He says he isn't doing anything but isn't he? He assures me he hasn't cheated yet. When I ask him if he can guarantee he won't cheat he looks down and says no I can't guarantee I won't cheat. It is a matter of time before he slips up. I have a bunch of health issues I have been struggling with and some new added ones just recently I lost my job years ago do to that and I am unfortunately dependent on my husband and I am also on his health insurance. I have no where to go and rents are increasing BIG TIME!! more people are ending up in the streets and it is rough out there. Maybe if I could stop loving him I would endure all of that and just run out there into the street with my crap show of health issues but I am SOOOOOOOOOOO stupidly still in love with him. I hate myself! I talk myself into being ok with things so I can cope with bad situations. I have PTSD from multiple childhood & life traumas so I don't think like everyone else. I have lived in the street before as a child and it is hell. He was the only one in this world who made me believe that could love me even though it feels like he doesn't most times. Sometimes he can be super nice and he helps me and I suddenly picture us growing old together but he also says he back pedals so that I won't leave him. Thankfully we don't have kids so I don't have to worry about that. I always hoped to get my health together and financial state in order before making any big decisions but now I am so vulnerable. I think it is stupid love combined with survival. I really could kick my own A$$ and tell myself wtf are you doing!? I get that it is like I don't love myself and I stay in a toxic relationship. I feel like right now it wouldn't be that easy anyways to try to get out.


You are going to have to make the choice to leave or not, but I can't imagine how leaving and dealing with all that would be worse than what you are currently living with. Nothing you have described sound like a man that loves you. He can't even tell you he won't cheat. Has he forgotten his wedding vows? And he has some seriously shady finances going on from what you have described. You are only trapped if you allow yourself to be trapped.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

xen.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

TurnedTurtle said:


> Are these friends, friends of the marriage (they respect boundaries), or not friends of the marriage? You might take a look at the late Dr. Shirley Glass's book _NOT Just Friends_ for more information, or her website: Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends" -- there is an interesting quiz here: Dr. Shirley Glass - Quiz: Has Your Friendship Become an Emotional Affair?


 These are coworkers and pretty much any woman who is attracted to him. Most of the people there are already cheating on their spouses....so I am not jumping with glee at the thought of accepting him having female friends. He says he hasn't cheated yet but also can't guarantee he won't. I have seen him drunk and he blacks out. Anyone can do anything to him and vice versa. I don't trust him.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

bobert said:


> My wife and I used to have opposite sex friends, then we both slept with them. So... I'm gonna go with a "no".
> 
> And based on what I've seen with friends, many of them shouldn't have opposite sex friends either. Some people can and everything is fine (until it's not), but other people can't. Your husband doesn't seem to be a good candidate for it.
> 
> The same rules should apply to you though. You can't be a hypocrite.


Thanks for your time and response.
I have zero friends. I wouldn't be a hypocrite as I am not interested in having male friends. I prefer to hang out with family members. My husband the hypocrite would leave me if I tried to have male friends like he wants to have female friends. He also wouldn't want me to treat him like he treats me or he would leave me.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I answered maybe, because the details and context are important.
> 
> I have female friends and my wife has male friends. However, under no circumstances should either of us spend significant amounts of time completely alone with these friends and we should never be talking/texting with them on the "down low". Honestly, neither one of us would even consider doing this. What hairyhead described, his wife spending a weekend solo with a single male college friend. No way! I love and trust my wife, but that falls into the realm of dating and worse, going away to a hotel for a weekend. If my wife wanted to do that with an old friend, she would ask me to come with her.
> 
> In the case of what the OP stated here, no freaking way! You say there is a mutual attraction with these women. That alone is a major problem. How do you know he is attracted to these women? Why are you married if "he falls for every chick he sees and vice versa." Given this, if you really want to stay in a committed, monogamous marriage with this person I believe there needs to be zero tolerance for and "friends" of the opposite sex. It sounds like he needs some kind of validation from these women and that need will most certainly grow into a physical affair.


yeah he told me they were coming onto him and clearly wanted him and he said he was attracted to them too. Why are we married(over 23 yrs)? cause we are stupid. I didn't know he fell for every chick until recently he admitted it. Before he would mention things but then would back petal so that I would still remain by his side. YES that is a big yes he wants validation from them and their bodies. We are growing older and he likes the fact that so many women want him more than ever. He loves having all that temptation at his fingertips. I would never have male friend because i don't care to in the first place. I would rather spend time with family or doing hobbies. I keep myself busy when I am not dealing with the crap show of my health problem nightmare. 

Thank you for the time you took to read my post and to answer.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

Captain Obvious said:


> It's one thing if you and your husband had opposite sex friends before you met and married, and your behavior and boundaries with those friends has remained consistent, but seeking out opposite sex friends that you are attracted to and you know are attracted to you during your marriage is terrible idea IMO. You're literally putting yourself in a compromising and tempting situation. That's just me.


Yeah that is what he likes...temptation at his fingertips. He doesn't get why that stresses me out so much all the b.s he tells me. Oh ok let me be at ease knowing all this now. What they keep hitting on you and you liked it? wait they are expected come onto you even worse? wait you did what for them? it is a lot that he says that most people wonder why I am not out the door already. No job, bad health, no where to go and still love that jerk....so me stupid.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

Pip’sJourney said:


> I am kind of dealing with this right now. Where my h works is almost all women. He is a teacher and has mainly kept to himself. Because of Covid, the teachers created a group chat group so that they could support each other. He is really good with tech stuff so obviously they asked him for help. The group chat group has everyone's phone number in it. I really do not have ANY issue with him being in that group, but I found that he was having PMs with individual women. Side conversations were happening.. and suddenly deleted when I saw them. I do not know what exactly was said. However, why delete if they were so innocent? These teachers.. some are single.. some are not..some are divorced..there were maybe 4.
> 
> My thing is that they do not know me. They need to be mutual friends unless they were friends before we were together. I do have 2 male friends.. but they are friends with him now too. I also have no side texts with my friends.. one is gay and the other is better friends with my h than me. I have known these two guys for more than 35 years. The teachers are new friends that I have never met. Plus he never let me read any of those messages. Claims it is all innocent.
> 
> For this reason I say hell no.


Woah I wonder what the heck he was hiding? I think there is a way to get back deleted text...I watched that show divorce court a lot. Some women don't mind when men are married and are more attracted to them. At my husband's job all those people are cheating on their spouses! it is sickening!! I think some of the innocent spouses who don't work there and are getting cheated on are finally finding out little by little. It is gross and imagine all those stds and broken hearts. It is sickening that people can treat others this way. Why cheat when you can break up/divorce and then do whatever you want. I don't understand cheaters. It should be a crime!


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> Well, there ya go. Sounds like hubs wants to step out and get a little side action.
> 
> Are you going to stay with this guy? And, if so, WHY????


Yup it is clear to everyone else but I am in denial. I also have no where to go and lost my job do to health issues and more health issues added recently. Many reasons why it wouldn't be easy to leave. I am a big idiot that loves him. If I could figure out a way to turn my love into anything else I would probably find it easier to walk out but I don't know what that is like. I am not good with making scary decisions and now would be the most terrifying because I am most vulnerable. The moment he does slip up I am out of here no matter what because that would destroy my love. I just wish I had somewhere to go, health insurance, money, GOOD HEALTH. Rents have gone up all over and more people are ending up in the street. I don't want to live in the street again.  I was homeless as a child and it was hell.


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

I think as long as good boundaries are maintained, people can have friends of both sexes and it can all be fine. I have some male friends, but of course my bf knows them, they know him, we've hung out in groups or in couples, etc. The same goes for me and my bf's female friends. We've all met, we all get along, it's all on the up-and-up. One of my guy friends from work has now gotten to be better friends with my bf than with me, and that's cool too.

I think people tend to be especially sensitive about bad situations they've lived through before. My ex had NO friends, had mental health issues, pushed people away and relied on me in a crushingly controlling way for all his social and emotional needs. After living through that, I don't automatically see having same-sex or opposite-sex friends as being a red flag. Rather, for me, someone NOT having friends is the huge red flag.

However, reading the OP's posts, what her husband has are not normal opposite sex friendships, and OP's H obviously has crappy boundaries. So that's an entirely different story.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

Thank you to everyone here for taking the time to read my post and to reply to me. I really appreciate it.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Unknown2u said:


> me stupid.


No, you're not stupid. You're being emotionally abused and manipulated.



Unknown2u said:


> I would hate to be consumed any further with his drama and I don't want to have to know every move he makes. I want peace, love and happiness. If that is impossible here then I will find a little corner to fool myself into believing I can make up my own slice of heaven.


It's not impossible. It's just not possible with him. 

Read about narcissists. Free yourself from this hell. At least speak to an attorney, many give free consults. Your husband will have to provide something for you. An attorney will know how much and for how long. Visit a women's shelter or Human Services and ask them for resources you can sign up for too.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

@Unknown2u - You sound like a good, decent person. Now I don't know what health challenges you face, but I am living proof that you CAN make it regardless of the obstacles. To begin with, even with Obamacare in shambles for the most part, there is still healthcare available for folks who have fallen on hard times.

Here's what I was up against when I left my alcoholic husband: I had a treatable but incurable form of cancer (so I was told). I had no health insurance. I had no job. My husband had recently drank himself out of another federal government position. I was living in a dead-end town in the middle of nowhere (seriously). When he lost his third job in five years, I knew I had to leave. Chances of literally dying were pretty good, so I decided I wanted to die alone with my dignity. Sure, I loved my husband. But I loved my own life more. After all, it's the only one I had.

I packed up what was mine, grabbed my two cats, and put my car on a tow behind the U-Haul. Drove across country. Worked a few odd jobs. Waited to die. Contacted a guy at M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston who pointed me to a healthcare plan that would cover me if I decided I wanted treatment.

More than 10 years later, and I am cancer free. My husband ultimately drank himself to death. I went back to work when I moved back to AZ. Today, I'm retired and living a darned good life.

No, I am not an exceptional person. No, I am not a particularly brave person. No, I am not a one-of-a-kind, just happened to get lucky person. I am someone who decided that fear wasn't going to keep me tethered to an unfulfilling life. I mean, what was the worst that could happen - I was going to die face down in a gutter? So what? We are all going to die. And once we're dead, I doubt regrets about how it ended are going to factor into the equation.

Sadly, I see so many people who post here who remain stuck because of their WHAT-IF? thinking. None of us can predict how things will play out. I certainly couldn't. But I quit indulging myself in WHAT IF? and looked at WHAT IS.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Unknown2u said:


> The moment he does slip up I am out of here no matter what because that would destroy my love.


Do you really believe he hasn't cheated? It isn't slipping up either. It's making a conscious choice, a decision, to cheat on you.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Your husband is insane. But it may be you that ends up in a psych ward, and I say this with sadness.

He’s eccentric, and not in a productive way.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Just curious, how much time do you spend alone with your female friend and what kinds of things do you do when alone with her? Also, do you text/message her as much or more than your wife?


To start of with my best friend is gay. She is the godmother to my daughter and was my wife’s bridesmaid when we got married.
Because of certain circumstances I’m in Ireland and have been since the beginning of last year. My friend is in the US so we haven’t seen each other in almost eighteen months.
She probably talks to my wife and kids as often as she talks to me.
As far as spending time alone with her we, sometimes go to gigs together to see bands that my wife has no interest in. We actually met at a Springsteen gig.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Unknown2u said:


> Yup it is clear to everyone else but I am in denial. I also have no where to go and lost my job do to health issues and more health issues added recently. Many reasons why it wouldn't be easy to leave. I am a big idiot that loves him. If I could figure out a way to turn my love into anything else I would probably find it easier to walk out but I don't know what that is like. I am not good with making scary decisions and now would be the most terrifying because I am most vulnerable. The moment he does slip up I am out of here no matter what because that would destroy my love. I just wish I had somewhere to go, health insurance, money, GOOD HEALTH. Rents have gone up all over and more people are ending up in the street. I don't want to live in the street again.  I was homeless as a child and it was hell.


this post gives the most insight into your opening post , 
LOVE you say you love him and did not paint a picture of a man that loves you ,
we all have a different Definition for love , some think they are in love but it is just habit and contentment 
I am not going to go into a long post trying to read into what is going on in your life and I take every word you posted to be true and coming from the heart I wish you well , 
and hope he respects you and does not use you weakness against you to take on a mistress , 
I have nothing wrong with someone that if they are not getting the sex they want from their husband or wife going to someone for that as long as they are open to the other doing the same 
you as much as said he wants women friends I am adding to it a little as so many said he wants a sex- friend but you say what liberty he wants he does not wish to give , 
selfish but common , 

someone said not having friends is a huge red flag , but what is a friend and often we think we have friends the fastest way to know if they are friends is the day you loose everything and they run away yes i know what it is like to loose everything and know we also cut our self off from others as well , but FRIENDS are very often something we buy they use us to drive their kids to school they like to be invited to dinner and are around because they are getting something , 
I had a good friend he said a friend is someone that comes in the back door a visitor is the one that comes in the front door , A friend is someone that is happy to give his or her time and help without counting the cost , but some take advantage of our friendship


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I generally do not mind if they’re gay or I meet them in person and size them up first.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> To start of with my best friend is gay. She is the godmother to my daughter and was my wife’s bridesmaid when we got married.
> Because of certain circumstances I’m in Ireland and have been since the beginning of last year. My friend is in the US so we haven’t seen each other in almost eighteen months.
> She probably talks to my wife and kids as often as she talks to me.
> As far as spending time alone with her we, sometimes go to gigs together to see bands that my wife has no interest in. We actually met at a Springsteen gig.


Since you friend is a lesbian this is not even close to the same thing. Her sexuality makes her no different than a male friends since there can't a be a sexual attraction there. That was a very important detail you left out.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

what if it was a woman that had a friend that was lesbian , but strangely some men seem to like the idea of their wife playing with other women but i think most of these men are hoping the other woman was bi 


BigDaddyNY said:


> Since you friend is a lesbian this is not even close to the same thing. Her sexuality makes her no different than a male friends since there can't a be a sexual attraction there. That was a very important detail you left out.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

One should take stock of the behavior that goes on between spouse and friend. I do also recognize that same sex friendships including herteros can derail a marriage as well.

What do I look for?
if my husband were to behave dismissively towards me while the friend is around
does nothing when friend behaves dismissively around me
Spends too much time online with this person; your judgement
Partner prioritizes the friend too much in time and money and any other resource.

The relationship does not need to include sex for it to be disrespectful. That's why the term "emotional affair" needed to be coined. Many women like getting attention without having to put out.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Since you friend is a lesbian this is not even close to the same thing. Her sexuality makes her no different than a male friends since there can't a be a sexual attraction there. That was a very important detail you left out.


If I had really tried I’m sure I could have converted her. 😂😂😂


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

NTA said:


> One should take stock of the behavior that goes on between spouse and friend. I do also recognize that same sex friendships including herteros can derail a marriage as well.
> 
> What do I look for?
> if my husband were to behave dismissively towards me while the friend is around
> ...


I have seen men and their mistress act total normal around his wife , and know the man had a second phone and went to toilet to send sms to his mistress, 
some become experts at hiding , my cousin was the wife she was told before and he is the best lover to her ever she thinks her husband is a saint 
he has over the years had many mistress , and when you see him at family get together he is all over his wife , 
I did once think she was ok with some form of open relationship but no she is total against that type lifestyle and just fooled bu him I think the only way she would open her eyes if ever is if he was found in bed with the mistress or if he got a STD , 

much the same as a friend I have that her husband is a wife beater and he is al so a super romantic lover after he cames down from the outside looking in you can see that he is just making up for his bad and dark side but she falls for it , 
it is like some women become high on the romance or romantic life and wish to not see like as if I was to wind my wife up so much in romantic moments that she would forgive anything


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> If I had really tried I’m sure I could have converted her. 😂😂😂


what if she converted your wife lol


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If you walk along a ledge you can fall off. If you don’t you can’t.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

**** no. 
Mutual couple friends, sure.
Opposite-sex friends that text/call and have personal, private conversations, go out alone together, etc - no.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> what if it was a woman that had a friend that was lesbian , but strangely some men seem to like the idea of their wife playing with other women but i think most of these men are hoping the other woman was bi


A lesbian friend I may tolerate ever so slightly more. Because there isn't a possibility of mutual attraction, not because I secretly want my wife playing with another women. In the end it still wouldn't be appropriate in my view. My wife and I are in a committed, monogamous relationship, so it doesn't matter if it is a man or woman.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> A lesbian friend I may tolerate ever so slightly more. Because there isn't a possibility of mutual attraction, not because I secretly want my wife playing with another women. In the end it still wouldn't be appropriate in my view. My wife and I are in a committed, monogamous relationship, so it doesn't matter if it is a man or woman.


 that where trust comes in , it is only guys with low self esteem get worried


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If someone is married and they have a good friend, then obviously they should have already Incorporated that friend and introduce them and spent time together as a couple with that friend. If you are really friends and just friends, then you're going to wish that your spouse was also friends with them so that you could hang out more and all enjoy each other.

It's a red flag if your spouse doesn't want to share time with you together with his friend. Of course there are times when it's kind of a fake thing and one or the other of them is lusting after the other but that's all the more reason why if you have a spouse with a friend like that, you won't know one way or the other unless you get to know them. It is pretty easy to tell what the chemistry is between them if you're spending time with both of them together. Once you are comfortable that you trust the relationship between them is just friendship, then it's fine if they want to spend some time together without you there. But you should always be welcome push comes to shove.

A spouse can certainly be a third wheel to an old friendship so I think everyone needs to just understand their roles and trust what's going on and give everyone a little room.

But if the spouse is hiding that person from you and trying to keep you two from meeting and doesn't want you to invite them to dinner or for you to meet them out together or somewhere often enough to get to know them then that's a red flag.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If someone is married and they have a good friend, and obviously they should have already Incorporated that friend and introduce them and spent time together as a couple with that friend. If you are really friends and just friends, then you're going to wish that your spouse was also friends with them so that you could hang out more and all enjoy each other.
> 
> It's a red flag if your spouse doesn't want to share time with you together with his friend. Of course there are times when it's kind of a fake thing and what are the other of them is lusting after the other but that's all the more reason why if you have a spouse with a friend like that you need to get to know them. It is pretty easy to tell what the chemistry is between them if you're spending time with both of them together. Once you are comfortable that you trust the relationship between them is just friendship, then it's fine if they want to spend some time together without you there. But you should always be welcome push comes to shove.
> 
> ...


Very well said. And I think this is where I'm at. Because my wife and I have been together so long, since we were 16 & 18, there are no friends of the opposite sex that pre-date our relationship. Since then, when one of us makes a new friend at work or elsewhere they are immediately introduced to the other spouse. 

It just seems foreign to me that one of us would have a close friend that the other isn't at least somewhat friendly with. And there should never be an expectation of privacy when that friend talks with one of the spouses. I tell my wife everything and she does the same.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

this guy has a wife that is not in full health she has no job she can not run away so he does not mind making a fool of her


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

frenchpaddy said:


> that where trust comes in , it is only guys with low self esteem get worried


No, it’s desperate or foolish men with no boundaries that allow such things.
I trust my wife, but I’m not stupid enough to allow her to engage in situations that can clearly create risks to a marriage. Nor would she accept me doing so.
Complete blind trust it’s not a virtue, it’s just foolish, weak or both

** unless you’re referring specifically to the lesbian friend scenario, as to which I haven’t thought enough about to really have an opinion on.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

manowar said:


> He has two beta orbiters that he friendzoned. Women do it all the time. See no problem.


Apples to oranges. 

Men don’t have friend zones. They have chicks they want to hook up with and chicks that are invisible and more less irrelevant to them. 

Orbiters and friend zones are female concepts. 

The OP said her H is attracted to them. That means he wants to hook up with them and likely would if given the chance.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

After reading all of your follow up posts, it doesn’t matter what other people think of opposite sex friends, your husband is at minimum a narcissist if not actual psychopath. 

His disregard and disrespect for you is shocking. 

You need to start making plans for taking care of yourself but one of these days soon, he is simply going to be gone. 

That will be the best thing for you but you’ll need to be able to take care of yourself when he does.


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## overrnbw (Jun 16, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> Did it occur to you that maybe it's the spouse who doesn't want to go? Also did you note that there are couples as well on the trip? If it was only singles, I'd see more reason to worry. But why would a person want to stop their spouse from enjoying time with their friends, but not want to join themselves. IOW, the concept of, "I don't want to go, therefore you can't go either", is a selfish one.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


Fair point. Maybe I was adding drama where there wasn’t one.


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## overrnbw (Jun 16, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> For starters she doesn't ski, or road cycle (that's a boy's trip) and i don't know her friend from college. Plus she is a teacher and had time during the long summer break.
> 
> We have holidays together as well.
> 
> ...


Nice that you get 8 weeks vacation but compelling people through government to give that you is odd.

Maybe I am making too much of it.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> After reading all of your follow up posts, it doesn’t matter what other people think of opposite sex friends, your husband is at minimum a narcissist if not actual psychopath.
> 
> His disregard and disrespect for you is shocking.
> 
> ...


@Unknown2u , please pay attention to this. 

All of this.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

overrnbw said:


> but compelling people through government to give that you is odd.
> .


Not sure what you mean by that.

I work for an international company and know our UK staff get a (much) better leave allowance than our US colleagues.

I get so many as I am senior with long service and I buy additional leave.



Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Apples to oranges.
> 
> Men don’t have friend zones. They have chicks they want to hook up with and chicks that are invisible and more less irrelevant to them.
> 
> Orbiters and friend zones are female concepts.



Hey i gotcha on that one Oldshirt.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

> Yes I am in hell currently with so much happening all at once. He says he isn't doing anything but isn't he? He assures me he hasn't cheated yet. When I ask him if he can guarantee he won't cheat he looks down and says no I can't guarantee I won't cheat. It is a matter of time before he slips up. I have a bunch of health issues I have been struggling with and some new added ones just recently I lost my job years ago do to that and I am unfortunately dependent on my husband and I am also on his health insurance. I have no where to go and rents are increasing BIG TIME!! more people are ending up in the streets and it is rough out there. Maybe if I could stop loving him I would endure all of that and just run out there into the street with my crap show of health issues but I am SOOOOOOOOOOO stupidly still in love with him. I hate myself! I talk myself into being ok with things so I can cope with bad situations. I have PTSD from multiple childhood & life traumas so I don't think like everyone else. I have lived in the street before as a child and it is hell. He was the only one in this world who made me believe that could love me even though it feels like he doesn't most times. Sometimes he can be super nice and he helps me and I suddenly picture us growing old together but he also says he back pedals so that I won't leave him. Thankfully we don't have kids so I don't have to worry about that. I always hoped to get my health together and financial state in order before making any big decisions but now I am so vulnerable. I think it is stupid love combined with survival. I really could kick my own A$$ and tell myself wtf are you doing!? I get that it is like I don't love myself and I stay in a toxic relationship. I feel like right now it wouldn't be that easy anyways to try to get out.


The thing is, and this applies to anyone in a marriage who's dependent on their spouse financially, he can up and divorce you at any time. 

You're saying that you can't leave him is flawed, because there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop him leaving you, so you need to get your ducks in a row.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

My feeling is that if you are able to write a long post on an advice board, you are able to work. And that's what you need to do because you're not always going to be in control of whether he stays or not. The burden you're creating on him is going to eventually run him off. You could do phone work from home or typing work from home and you might be able to do delivery type work or something like that which there's a great need for. I believe you can work and I believe you should. Sock money away because one day you're going to need it. You can't let whatever happened in your younger years paralyze you from being productive now. Use whatever good limbs you have that enable you to type or communicate or drive and start making some money. Good luck.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

overrnbw said:


> Nice that you get 8 weeks vacation but compelling people through government to give that you is odd.
> 
> Maybe I am making too much of it.


In most of Europe, that is actually a basic aspect of society, and not government mandated.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

maquiscat said:


> In most of Europe, that is actually a basic aspect of society, and not government mandated.


I also live in UK, and I'd say 5 or 6 weeks is normal here, apart from teachers.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Laurentium said:


> I also live in UK, and I'd say 5 or 6 weeks is normal here, apart from teachers.


Yes thats about right. Some only get 4. Some may build up more if they have worked for a company for a long time.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

france get 5 weeks but the work week is only about a weekend with a 35h week


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Al_Bundy said:


> I agree. Let's be honest, sex/attraction is the main reason guys talk to women. (outside of work). Are any of these female "friends" 300lbs? Of course not, what would be the point?


I've had female friends who were unattractive and/or overweight, the point was friendship.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Apples to oranges.
> 
> Men don’t have friend zones. They have chicks they want to hook up with and chicks that are invisible and more less irrelevant to them.


Kindly speak for yourself.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

When I was in relationships, I´m not now, we both had / have friends of the opposite sex. 
Some of my female close friendships (same as the ones with males) persist for 40 years or even more.
Most of times I´m also friend of their partners as well.
My criteria about, and same one for myself and for my own partners, is that friendship is as good as defined by the kind of interactions (rather than by it´s "label").
It may include deep affection and loyalty. 
And strictly exclude flirting, innuendos, sexual tension as they collide with the kind of couple relationship I want and stand for.
Other than said boundaries, friendship is emotionally rewarding and a strong need. 
Even best when a couple share friends when posiible. 
If someone is a good friend of yours will probably want the best for you. Which means to recognize the uncontested priority of your relationship with your partner.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Unknown2u said:


> Yup it is clear to everyone else but I am in denial. I also have no where to go and lost my job do to health issues and more health issues added recently. Many reasons why it wouldn't be easy to leave. I am a big idiot that loves him. If I could figure out a way to turn my love into anything else I would probably find it easier to walk out but I don't know what that is like. I am not good with making scary decisions and now would be the most terrifying because I am most vulnerable. The moment he does slip up I am out of here no matter what because that would destroy my love. I just wish I had somewhere to go, health insurance, money, GOOD HEALTH. Rents have gone up all over and more people are ending up in the street. I don't want to live in the street again.  I was homeless as a child and it was hell.


Maybe you should see a lawyer or two to understand what financially would happen if you divorce. You say that you have no place to go, no health insurance, etc.. A lawyer may be able to help you what you WOULD get if you divorced -- alimony, being kept on his insurance for xxx length of time, asset splits, etc.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Mr.Married said:


> I wish I had a dollar for every cheating story at TAM about opposite sex “friends”. I could care less how friendly it seems .... I like sex and my wife is really cute. Opportunity need not be tempted. Neither of us will EVER have opposite sex friends. It’s not that I’m jealous..... I’m just not an idiot....... don’t tempt biological forces.


I agree 100%. There are married women in my life that I could label friends due to things such as work, but we don't text, call, go out together, share problems, and all that stuff. That wouldn't make sense. Guys don't hang around attractive women and feel like they are with Aunt Bee. Even if they never act on it, they get a thrill from being with attractive women and getting in a little flirting and pretending to others that it's like being with Great Aunt Gertrude, but it's not. As you wrote, don't tempt biological forces.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

southbound said:


> I agree 100%. There are married women in my life that I could label friends due to things such as work, but we don't text, call, go out together, share problems, and all that stuff. That wouldn't make sense. Guys don't hang around attractive women and feel like they are with Aunt Bee. Even if they never act on it, they get a thrill from being with attractive women and getting in a little flirting and pretending to others that it's like being with Great Aunt Gertrude, but it's not. As you wrote, don't tempt biological forces.


Completely agree. I talked to my wife about this question just the other day and she completely agrees. She even reminded me of something that happened a long time ago, probably 25 years. She worked in an office where she regularly went out to lunch with coworkers. These were not work related lunches, completely social. There were times when she may have been the only female, but it was always in a group of 3, 4 or more people. That is all good in my opinion. One day a couple people backed out at the last minute, so she and the remaining male coworker decided to still go out for lunch, he was married too. They went to the usual place near the office. About 15 minutes into lunch they both looked at each and said this is weird, let's not do this again. They were very good friends and nothing inappropriate was going on. They both were just uncomfortable going on what felt like a date and looked like a date to everyone around them. It isn't appropriate behavior for married people in my opinion.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

hairyhead said:


> We both have friends of the opposite gender with no worries.
> *
> A couple of years ago my wife went on holiday and stayed with a single male friend from college days*. No issues with that
> 
> ...


Open marriage? Sounds crazy to me.....


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Open marriage? Sounds crazy to me.....


Not open. They are platonic friends.

It's called trust.

Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> Not open. They are platonic friends.
> 
> It's called trust.
> 
> Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


I trust my wife, but that is just utter nonsense in my book. Married people don't go away on vacations with single people of the opposite sex. You will never, ever know for sure what goes on. Your choice I suppose.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

And BTW, the same would be true for me. I do have old female college friends. I know I could go away with one of them for a weekend alone and I wouldn’t cheat on my wife, but that isn’t really the point. I would never consider it because it isn’t appropriate behavior for a married man. Once you are married you stop going on dates and weekend getaways with single people of the opposite sex.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

BigDaddyNY said:


> And BTW, the same would be true for me. I do have old female college friends. I know I could go away with one of them for a weekend alone and I wouldn’t cheat on my wife, but that isn’t really the point. I would never consider it because it isn’t appropriate behavior for a married man. Once you are married you stop going on dates and weekend getaways with single people of the opposite sex.


Exactly. When one does behaves like they are dating an opposite sex friend, it's asking for trouble, and like one poster wrote, it would feel weird to me even if nothing were going on.

I feel like this is basic knowledge. people who pretend otherwise are merely satisfying their feelings because it is something they want to do and it gives them comfort. I may walk out the door and get bitten by a snake tomorrow, but if I play with snakes, the liklihood of getting bitten increases greatly.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I trust my wife, but that is just utter nonsense in my book. Married people don't go away on vacations with single people of the opposite sex. You will never, ever know for sure what goes on. Your choice I suppose.


It's not nonsense, it's true. She went to visit him at the ;lace where he lives. It's called love and trust. Rather sad reflection on anyone who cannot develop a relationship which can be based upon that.



BigDaddyNY said:


> And BTW, the same would be true for me. I do have old female college friends. I know I could go away with one of them for a weekend alone and I wouldn’t cheat on my wife, but that isn’t really the point. I would never consider it because it isn’t appropriate behavior for a married man. Once you are married you stop going on dates and weekend getaways with single people of the opposite sex.


It's a shame you have to limit your life experiences because of a rather narrow minded view, in my opinion.

I probably wouldn't go away with one female friend but I would happily go with a group including single women or married women who are not with their husbands. We used to do it annually for a ski trip. They are trips not dates.

However I do have one married friend from school days who I meet regularly for coffee. Neither spouses have an issue with that.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

hairyhead said:


> It's not nonsense, it's true. She went to visit him at the ;lace where he lives. It's called love and trust. Rather sad reflection on anyone who cannot develop a relationship which can be based upon that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If that is what works for you, that’s great; however, it probably doesn’t work for most people in the long run. I can think of more situations than I care to where it didn’t work well for people. If someone were asking my advice, I have seen enough in my lifetime that I could not recommend that lifestyle and feel good about it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> It's not nonsense, it's true. She went to visit him at the ;lace where he lives. It's called love and trust. Rather sad reflection on anyone who cannot develop a relationship which can be based upon that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't limit my life experiences, it enhances them. I would take my wife with me. There are hobbies and other small things we do on our own, but anything big, like a trip, I want to experience that with my wife. We got married because we want to share all of our experiences together.

The group thing is a bit of a different story, although still really odd that you wouldn't take your wife. I've done this kind of thing, My wife will go with even if the reason for the trip is of zero interest to her. She wants to be with me and she will find something to stay occupied while I'm out doing my thing. Then she would meet back up with me and my friends for dinner and we would go to bed together.

So, if you think your way is all good, then why wouldn't you go away with a female friend? Why would you hesitate at all?


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It doesn't limit my life experiences, it enhances them. I would take my wife with me. There are hobbies and other small things we do on our own, but anything big, like a trip, I want to experience that with my wife. We got married because we want to share all of our experiences together.
> 
> The group thing is a bit of a different story, although still really odd that you wouldn't take your wife. I've done this kind of thing, My wife will go with even if the reason for the trip is of zero interest to her. She wants to be with me and she will find something to stay occupied while I'm out doing my thing. Then she would meet back up with me and my friends for dinner and we would go to bed together.
> 
> So, if you think your way is all good, then why wouldn't you go away with a female friend? Why would you hesitate at all?


Several reasons for not skiing together. She doesn't ski any more, the ski resorts we go to have limited non-ski options, cost and the group always goes during term time. She is a teacher.

We have common hobbies which we do on holiday.

I wouldn't go away with another woman because it may be seen, by some, as inappropriate. In the case of my wife's friend I know the relationship is entirely platonic and our other friends know my wife would not cheat.

I've spent most of my career travelling around our country and some overseas. It would have been very unfair to dictate who my wife had as friends.

Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## overrnbw (Jun 16, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> In most of Europe, that is actually a basic aspect of society, and not government mandated.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


It is interesting, and nicer if everyone is onboard!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> Several reasons for not skiing together. She doesn't ski any more, the ski resorts we go to have limited non-ski options, cost and the group always goes during term time. She is a teacher.
> 
> We have common hobbies which we do on holiday.
> 
> ...


So it doesn't matter that your wife going away for the weekend would be seen, by some, as inappropriate? You know your relationship with this theoretical woman platonic, so why does it matter what people think about you if it doesn't matter what they think about your wife's relationship?


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> So it doesn't matter that your wife going away for the weekend would be seen, by some, as inappropriate? You know your relationship with this theoretical woman platonic, so why does it matter what people think about you if it doesn't matter what they think about your wife's relationship?


Because those people who matter to us know that my wife would not do anything inappropriate.

I have just remembered that late last year I had two trips with a female friend from our running club, We shared a room and it was all above board, My wife consented to the trips.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> Because those people who matter to us know that my wife would not do anything inappropriate.
> 
> I have just remembered that late last year I had two trips with a female friend from our running club, We shared a room and it was all above board, My wife consented to the trips.


Well, I suspect you and your wife are a rare breed. Glad it works for you.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Well, I suspect you and your wife are a rare breed. Glad it works for you.


Not sure we are a rare breed but we are happy (most of the time),


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> Not sure we are a rare breed but we are happy (most of the time),


I'm confident in saying not many men, or women, would be comfortable with your arrangement. It seems to work for you and just because it is foreign to me, I guess I really shouldn't be so judgmental. Sorry if I was. Happy, most of the time, is a lot more than many people have, so I'll say we are both lucky to have that.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

hairyhead said:


> Not open. They are platonic friends.
> 
> It's called trust.
> 
> Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


No, that’s called stupid.
You are expecting trust to trump common sense, human nature, etc. 
Let’s say your trust in your wife is well-founded. You’re trusting the guy as well to have full access to your wife?

I’m trying to see your perspective. I can’t. I don’t know if or could even fathom a man even wanting to go spend the weekend with another man’s wife. Why?

The only thing I can think of is that you live in a world of the rich and famous where you all have so much free time and free money, that your wife’s friend would be willing to devote time and money on their friendship vs his own wife or girlfriend, or single friend possibility. Or maybe you’re all old as the hills and not interested in the same things as younger people.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> No, that’s called stupid.


Stupid for most couples, but as with most things, there is a significant percentage where trust is justified and such friendships actually work well. We're one of the latter couples. And if we're wrong, the risk would still be worth it given the many advantages of friendship and freedom.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

hairyhead said:


> Several reasons for not skiing together. She doesn't ski any more, the ski resorts we go to have limited non-ski options, cost and the group always goes during term time. She is a teacher.
> 
> We have common hobbies which we do on holiday.
> 
> ...


I think I understand now. I still don’t think it’s wise to do this. So you are older, and very wealthy, and have a great marriage. My hat is off to you! I’m jealous. I don’t think I could ever trust the way you do. I wouldn’t have even before my divorce.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Had the poll not closed, I would have chosen the last option.

I will never do that again


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> No, that’s called stupid.
> You are expecting trust to trump common sense, human nature, etc.
> Let’s say your trust in your wife is well-founded. You’re trusting the guy as well to have full access to your wife?
> 
> ...


I agree with you. This topic always confuses me. Spending time with opposite sex friends when married just doesn’t make common sense to me for reasons that seem obvious. I can’t even understand why someone would want to. It’s one thing to say you have friends of the opposite sex, but to go on vacation, stay in the same room, and all that just seems very unnatural to me.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

We are certainly not very wealthy, comfortable but not wealthy.

We are both on our 50s but that's irrelevant as our entire marriage has been founded on the same trust.



Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> I don’t know if or could even fathom a man even wanting to go spend the weekend with another man’s wife. Why?


Because there are those of us who don't sexualize these things. It's rather like those who tell high school girls that they are the ones who need to go change their clothes because the boys are distracted, instead of correcting the boys.



> The only thing I can think of is that you live in a world of the rich and famous where you all have so much free time and free money, that your wife’s friend would be willing to devote time and money on their friendship vs his own wife or girlfriend, or single friend possibility. Or maybe you’re all old as the hills and not interested in the same things as younger people.


Or we devote the same amount and type of energy to our opposite sex friends as we do our same sex friends. And what if your mate is bisexual? Are they not allowed any friends then?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

southbound said:


> I agree with you. This topic always confuses me. Spending time with opposite sex friends when married just doesn’t make* common sense* to me for reasons that seem obvious. I can’t even understand why someone would want to. It’s one thing to say you have friends of the opposite sex, but to go on vacation, stay in the same room, and all that just seems very unnatural to me.


Common sense isn't. Neither is friendly fire. "Common sense" is just a made up phrase that never applies universally. Hell even from county to county, "common sense" can be different, yet alone different regions. To me, and most of my friends, it's common sense that your trust the one(s) you chose to spend the rest of your life (hopefully) with. Where is the _common sense_ in marrying someone that you can't trust with the opposite sex?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

maquiscat said:


> Common sense isn't. Neither is friendly fire. "Common sense" is just a made up phrase that never applies universally. Hell even from county to county, "common sense" can be different, yet alone different regions. To me, and most of my friends, it's common sense that your trust the one(s) you chose to spend the rest of your life (hopefully) with. Where is the _common sense_ in marrying someone that you can't trust with the opposite sex?


Everything you wrote is great in the perfect world, but I’ve noticed things are rarely perfect. Common sense tells me I shouldn’t ignore human nature and statistics. But hey, we will live our lives how we want to.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

southbound said:


> Everything you wrote is great in the perfect world, but I’ve noticed things are rarely perfect. Common sense tells me I shouldn’t ignore human nature and statistics. But hey, we will live our lives how we want to.


It's perfectly valid in an imperfect world. There really isn't any such thing as "common sense" unless you limit your range to people with a common experience. What I call common sense will not necessarily be the same as your common sense. Your _experience _might tell you that you "shouldn’t ignore human nature and statistics", but my _experience_ tells me to only marry someone I can trust to have opposite sex friends. Because in the end that is all "common sense" is. experience that you have in common with others, and not the implied universal sense.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> Because there are those of us who don't sexualize these things. It's rather like those who tell high school girls that they are the ones who need to go change their clothes because the boys are distracted, instead of correcting the boys.
> 
> Or we devote the same amount and type of energy to our opposite sex friends as we do our same sex friends. And what if your mate is bisexual? Are they not allowed any friends then?


How do you correct a boy to stop thinking inappropriate thoughts about a girl wearing a top that barely covers her breasts or ass? There are some things that just aren't appropriate in some circumstances.

And how about we devote that energy to our spouse instead of our opposite sex friends? Again, I see marriage as partnership to share your life experiences together, including friendships.



maquiscat said:


> It's perfectly valid in an imperfect world. There really isn't any such thing as "common sense" unless you limit your range to people with a common experience. What I call common sense will not necessarily be the same as your common sense. Your _experience _might tell you that you "shouldn’t ignore human nature and statistics", but my _experience_ tells me to only marry someone I can trust to have opposite sex friends. Because in the end that is all "common sense" is. experience that you have in common with others, and not the implied universal sense.


I think you are being very idealistic. I hope every person that gets married believes they can trust the person they are marrying with anything, including opposite sex friends. I doubt anyone is going into a marriage thinking they can't trust their spouse to not cheat. However, the facts are clear that those friendships are a very common source of infidelity. In fact over 50% of affairs are with someone they knew very well, a close friend. Why in the world would you expose yourself to that risk when the solution is as simple as involving your spouse? It is like dieting. You will be much less likely to cheat on your diet if you remove all tempting foods from the house or if you have a friend supporting you. Don't interact with opposite sex friends without your spouse and you eliminate the majority of the opportunity for infidelity.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

southbound said:


> Spending time with opposite sex friends when married just doesn’t make common sense to me for reasons that seem obvious.


The only "obvious" reason I can determine from your post is that when two people of the opposite gender spend time alone they will always start to create and emotional or physical connection. If that was the case then most workplaces would be full of couples who are emotionally and/or physically involved irrespective of their marital status. I have worked in loads of offices and that, simply, is not the case.




southbound said:


> I can’t even understand why someone would want to.


Perhaps because they enjoy each others' company and share common interests. Are all hobby clubs same sex only? Do you only like men on a platonic level? Of course not.



southbound said:


> It’s one thing to say you have friends of the opposite sex, but to go on vacation, stay in the same room, and all that just seems very unnatural to me.


I wouldn't describe or think this is unnatural. Socially it may seen as unusual or uncommon but that is entirely based upon our developed culture and environment. Attitudes will vary enormously across the world according to local culture and accepted behaviour. This is often a problem associated with help forms like TAM. If someone from Asia posts a question about their particular problem an answer from someone born and bred in North America may not be the most appropriate advice.

Staying in the same room, in my experience, is entirely grounded on cost. There are plenty of hostels around the world where the dormitory accommodation is provided on a shared gender basis. Moving that to a twin room is not that different.

I could also comment on what is natural in relation to monogamy however given that we have been monogamous (physically and emotionally) for the last 35 years it may not be appropriate coming from me.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How do you correct a boy to stop thinking inappropriate thoughts about a girl wearing a top that barely covers her breasts or ass? There are some things that just aren't appropriate in some circumstances.


I am not going to disagree that there are indeed times that the female is wearing inappropriate clothing. However, there are plenty of stories of when girls are the one sent home even when what they are wearing is actually within the guidelines, purely on the excuse of it distracts boys. Furthermore, while you cannot stop a person from having inappropriate thoughts towards another, you can teach people to not be distracted by them, and to not act upon them. I see plenty of women for whom I have an initial inappropriate thought, but I do not leer at them, nor do I demand that they change their dress to control my thoughts. 



> And how about we devote that energy to our spouse instead of our opposite sex friends?


That is still sexualizing the situation. But if you want to try to claim that it is not sexualizing the situation, then how about we devote that energy to our spouse instead of our same sex friends as well? And I will ask the ignored questions again. If one's spouse is bisexual, does that then mean that they should have neither same sex nor opposite sex friends?



> Again, I see marriage as partnership to share your life experiences together, including friendships.


Nothing I have said refutes this point. But this then goes back to your claim of being idealistic. All couples have plenty of things that the one spouse is engaged in and the other isn't. I am big into collecting my Transformers. My wives are not. Should I be giving up that life experience of being a collector because they don't share in it? Seems to me that many are cherry picking what experiences should be shared and what don't have to be.




> I think you are being very idealistic. I hope every person that gets married believes they can trust the person they are marrying with anything, including opposite sex friends. I doubt anyone is going into a marriage thinking they can't trust their spouse to not cheat. However, the facts are clear that those friendships are a very common source of infidelity. In fact over 50% of affairs are with someone they knew very well, a close friend. Why in the world would you expose yourself to that risk when the solution is as simple as involving your spouse? It is like dieting. You will be much less likely to cheat on your diet if you remove all tempting foods from the house or if you have a friend supporting you. Don't interact with opposite sex friends without your spouse and you eliminate the majority of the opportunity for infidelity.


You are still completely missing my point. I am pointing out that there is no such thing as "common sense" so claiming that "common sense" tells you to do or not do this that or the other is empty. Common sense isn't as common as people like to think. I showed the _example _of such in pointing out how my common sense is different than yours.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

hairyhead said:


> I wouldn't describe or think this is unnatural. Socially it may seen as unusual or uncommon but that is entirely based upon our developed culture and environment. Attitudes will vary enormously across the world according to local culture and accepted behaviour. This is often a problem associated with help forms like TAM. If someone from Asia posts a question about their particular problem an answer from someone born and bred in North America may not be the most appropriate advice.


This reminds me of the behavior of many Asian males in comparison to American males. The hang out and are cuddled up or holding hands and to them there is nothing sexual about it. Here, we sexualize things so much that if two males over oh say 8 are seen holding hands we worry about them being physical with each other.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> The only "obvious" reason I can determine from your post is that when two people of the opposite gender spend time alone they will always start to create and emotional or physical connection. If that was the case then most workplaces would be full of couples who are emotionally and/or physically involved irrespective of their marital status. I have worked in loads of offices and that, simply, is not the case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are indeed many workplaces where there are emotional bonds between the sexes in the work environment. Very common.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

CountryMike said:


> There are indeed many workplaces where there are emotional bonds between the sexes in the work environment. Very common.


There is a difference between full of and many.

My experience would suggest less that 5% of employees form a relationship with each other.

Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> There is a difference between full of and many.
> 
> My experience would suggest less that 5% of employees form a relationship with each other.
> 
> Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


Sampling within departments both sexes with "work partners" is much higher in my observations. Not all are overtly sexual but feelings generated from jointly meeting daily challenges are inherently generated.

More so if two or more routinely travel together on business trips.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> There is a difference between full of and many.
> 
> My experience would suggest less that 5% of employees form a relationship with each other.
> 
> Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


Work environment is a little different. In my experience it is rare that a man and a woman spend significant amounts of time working together in a private or semi private environment. And co-workers are another prime source of infidelity. somewhere between 10% and 20% of extramarital affairs are with a co-worker.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

hairyhead said:


> The only "obvious" reason I can determine from your post is that when two people of the opposite gender spend time alone they will always start to create and emotional or physical connection*. If that was the case then most workplaces would be full of couples who are emotionally and/or physically involved irrespective of their marital status. * I have worked in loads of offices and that, simply, is not the case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hospitals are known places that are absolutely rife with cheating. Yes, people of the opposite sex working closely together..... the obvious happens. People have weaknesses. Have they put women sailors on submarines yet? If so, they’re stupid.

There are lots of situations that occur regularly that shouldn’t because of the tendency for emotions to take over. For example: male church pastors do individual counseling with women who may be struggling with marital problems, etc. Not wi

if you can’t understand how stupid it is to have your wife stay overnight in the same hotel or house, one on one, with another male friend, there’s no Convincing you of it.

I personally will not allow my wife, should I ever have another, to date and have sleepovers with other men. Nor will I do the same. It’s stupid and totally inappropriate, and it has nothing to do with trust.

I find it even more idiotic that a polygamist is on this thread spouting nonsense about it being no big deal to spend the night with other men’s wives.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

maquiscat said:


> It's perfectly valid in an imperfect world. There really isn't any such thing as "common sense" unless you limit your range to people with a common experience. What I call common sense will not necessarily be the same as your common sense. Your _experience _might tell you that you "shouldn’t ignore human nature and statistics", but my _experience_ tells me to only marry someone I can trust to have opposite sex friends. Because in the end that is all "common sense" is. experience that you have in common with others, and not the implied universal sense.


I’ll say your comments about common sense have credibility. With that aside, people I know would think one had lost their ever loving mind if you did something like this. It’s not part of my culture. Like the person who posted earlier about everyone cancelling in the group to eat out except her and one other man who were married to other people, and they felt strange, even though it was innocent. I can relate to that.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> Have they put women sailors on submarines yet?


"Currently, the Navy has 84 female officers and 219 enlisted female sailors serving on submarine crews."
sub link


> If so, they’re stupid.


I'm sure they'll reconsider once they hear this.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> I am not going to disagree that there are indeed times that the female is wearing inappropriate clothing. However, there are plenty of stories of when girls are the one sent home even when what they are wearing is actually within the guidelines, purely on the excuse of it distracts boys. Furthermore, while you cannot stop a person from having inappropriate thoughts towards another, you can teach people to not be distracted by them, and to not act upon them. I see plenty of women for whom I have an initial inappropriate thought, but I do not leer at them, nor do I demand that they change their dress to control my thoughts.


This is almost a non-issue. Of course there are times when a girl is sent home for really stupid reasons, but it is rare. It just gets sensationalized by the media. I'm not going to argue that these things are often handled poorly.



maquiscat said:


> That is still sexualizing the situation. But if you want to try to claim that it is not sexualizing the situation, then how about we devote that energy to our spouse instead of our same sex friends as well? And I will ask the ignored questions again. If one's spouse is bisexual, does that then mean that they should have neither same sex nor opposite sex friends?


I really meant devote you energy to your spouse instead of all friends, not just opposite sex. Your spouse still deserves the bulk of your energy and time, especially your personal and private one-on-one time. I never said anyone shouldn't have opposite sex friends. There should be boundaries and they are going to be different between opposite sex and same sex friends. For me, those boundaries are clear. You don't go on private one-on-one dates with friends of the opposite sex. You don't go on one-on-one weekends sharing a room with friends of the opposite sex. You don't have private conversations, texts, calls, etc., that you won't share with your spouse with friends of the opposite sex. If a spouse is bi then they shouldn't do any of these private one-on-one things with either sex. Again, not that they can't have friends, there are just boundaries around those friends.



maquiscat said:


> Nothing I have said refutes this point. But this then goes back to your claim of being idealistic. All couples have plenty of things that the one spouse is engaged in and the other isn't. I am big into collecting my Transformers. My wives are not. Should I be giving up that life experience of being a collector because they don't share in it? Seems to me that many are cherry picking what experiences should be shared and what don't have to be.


You are welcome to have your Transformer hobbies, very cool by the way. I'm into car audio competitions and my wife has zero interest in it. I travel for this hobby, sometimes overnight. I'll possibly share a room with another male friend if I can't convince her to come with (which she does from time to time), but I would never consider sharing a room with a female friend. I just won't share a hotel room with a woman that isn't my wife. You don't give up your friends or hobbies, you just have clear boundaries. 



maquiscat said:


> You are still completely missing my point. I am pointing out that there is no such thing as "common sense" so claiming that "common sense" tells you to do or not do this that or the other is empty. Common sense isn't as common as people like to think. I showed the _example _of such in pointing out how my common sense is different than yours.


I actually agree with you about common sense. One person's common sense could be another person's non-sense based on many factors. What I was getting at was your comment: "Your _experience _might tell you that you "shouldn’t ignore human nature and statistics", but my _experience_ tells me to only marry someone I can trust to have opposite sex friends." I said we all marry someone we can trust or at least expect that we can trust and I doubt any person gets into a marriage just so they can have an affair down the road at some point. Yet it happens far too often and the facts are clear. When an affair happens the majority of the time it is with a well known close friend. If you can avoid the possibility of, or perception of an inappropriate relationship, why not do it? Especially when it is as simple as involving your spouse, which you should want to do anyway. 

I don't think a married person should be engaging in anything that is consider part of a typical courtship ritual with a person other than their spouse. And if we get back to the situation that the OP is in, opposite sex friends are obviously not going to work. This is an extreme case, but clearly the OPs husband has no boundaries.

In the end all I am doing, and you are doing, is describing how we fell about opposite sex friends and how our spouses interact with them. I don't think there is a one size fits all correct answer. You may feel dates, overnights and private conversations between your spouse and opposite sex friends is okay, but I don't. I do suspect you are in the minority with that point of view though. Even so, it is your choice. My wife and I are in complete agreement, so really that is all that matters. I would say you are right on about experience dictating what you consider common sense. My wife and I have been together so long that we literally do not have any friends that aren't from the time we've been together. I think that has a big impact on our point of view.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> "Currently, the Navy has 84 female officers and 219 enlisted female sailors serving on submarine crews."
> sub linkI'm sure they'll reconsider once they hear this.


I’m sure they won’t. Our entire country is being run into the ground by “progressives”.
They’ll have the whole world as vile and disgusting as they’ve made SAn Francisco.

Of course, I don’t agree with having women in combat roles, so I’m sure you can quickly label me as whatever you want.


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Hospitals are known places that are absolutely rife with cheating. Yes, people of the opposite sex working closely together..... the obvious happens. People have weaknesses. Have they put women sailors on submarines yet? If so, they’re stupid.
> 
> There are lots of situations that occur regularly that shouldn’t because of the tendency for emotions to take over. For example: male church pastors do individual counseling with women who may be struggling with marital problems, etc. Not wi
> 
> ...


So you are calling me stupid?

Married 31 years married, no cheating, still happy, seen a lot of the world (together and separately), approaching retirement with a reasonable pension.

Built enormous love and trust.

That is not stupid.

Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

I've read that there are women stationed on aircraft carriers, and every return to port has at least a couple females pregnant upon return to port.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

hairyhead said:


> So you are calling me stupid?
> 
> Married 31 years married, no cheating, still happy, seen a lot of the world (together and separately), approaching retirement with a reasonable pension.
> 
> ...


Incredibly naive. I apologize for the stupid comment


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## hairyhead (Oct 30, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Incredibly naive. I apologize for the stupid comment


Please explain why I am naive?

Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

hairyhead said:


> Please explain why I am naive?
> 
> Sent from my CPH2159 using Tapatalk


You seem to have a long track record that this has worked out okay, as far as you know. So at 31 years it seems your trust wasn't misplaced.

What is naïve is to think that nothing could possibly happen simply because you trust your wife. These affairs often sneak up on both people, it isn't planned. Males and females are naturally attracted to each other and time alone can and will foster that attraction. There is such a huge body of evidence that these interactions are the primary source for infidelity. Not acknowledging that is what is naive.

Just curious, where would you draw the line? If a weekend away with an old college friend is okay once, what about twice? Or annually, or every month? How many texts to a male friend is too much? How many dinner dates with a male friend is too many? Also, do you have to know the male friends your wife hangs out with, or are you okay with you not being acquainted with them?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You seem to have a long track record that this has worked out okay, as far as you know. So at 31 years it seems your trust wasn't misplaced.
> 
> *What is naïve is to think that nothing could possibly happen simply because you trust your wife.*


To me, trust is acknowledging the person has the opportunity to do you wrong(ie, something could possibly go wrong), but having faith they will choose not to.


> These affairs often sneak up on both people, it isn't planned. Males and females are naturally attracted to each other and time alone can and will foster that attraction.


But you won't experience attraction if you don't spend time w/ the OS? Honestly, that never worked for me.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

SpinyNorman said:


> To me, trust is acknowledging the person has the opportunity to do you wrong(ie, something could possibly go wrong), but having faith they will choose not to.
> 
> But you won't experience attraction if you don't spend time w/ the OS? Honestly, that never worked for me.


That is a good definition of trust, but believing nothing could ever possibly happen is sticking your head in the sand. I've said it before, everyone trusts their spouse until they breach that trust. And I believe those that breached the trust never thought they would do such a terrible thing, yet it happened. I go back to my diet analogy. No one wants to cheat on their diet and you are not very likely to cheat on your diet if the tempting foods are not easily accessible or you have someone to be strong with. If those brownies are on the counter all day long while you are home alone with them, they will probably get sampled at the very least. This can easily be transferred to a relationship

I'm not sure what you mean in your second comment. How will you experience attraction for someone you don't spend time with?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

hairyhead said:


> Please explain why I am naive?
> 
> You are naive because you think your wife going on dates with other men and having sleepovers with them is prudent and that your trust in her Is somehow equivalent to exercising reasonable boundaries of behavior for a committed relationship.
> 
> ...


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That is a good definition of trust, but believing nothing could ever possibly happen is sticking your head in the sand.


If someone is saying nothing could ever possibly happen, I agree, but I don't think anyone has said that. In fact, those who trust their spouse are either saying something could happen, or else have a different definition of trust than I do.


> I've said it before, everyone trusts their spouse until they breach that trust.


 I believe many people never trust their spouse.


> And I believe those that breached the trust never thought they would do such a terrible thing, yet it happened. I go back to my diet analogy. No one wants to cheat on their diet and you are not very likely to cheat on your diet if the tempting foods are not easily accessible or you have someone to be strong with. If those brownies are on the counter all day long while you are home alone with them, they will probably get sampled at the very least. This can easily be transferred to a relationship


My problem w/ this analogy is that I have no reason to buy the brownies if I have sworn to never eat them, whereas I get a lot out of friendships where I honor my oath not to engage in sex.


> I'm not sure what you mean in your second comment. How will you experience attraction for someone you don't spend time with?


I would see them.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> If so, they’re stupid.
> 
> if you can’t understand how stupid it is
> 
> ...





Evinrude58 said:


> I’m sure they won’t. Our entire country is being run into the ground by “progressives”.
> They’ll have the whole world as vile and disgusting as they’ve made SAn Francisco.
> 
> Of course, I don’t agree with having women in combat roles, so I’m sure *you can quickly label me as whatever you want.*


Thanks, but I think you label enough for both of us.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

southbound said:


> It’s one thing to say you have friends of the opposite sex, but to go on vacation, stay in the same room, and all that just seems very unnatural to me.


Seems like looking for trouble, IMO. Why tempt fate or each other?


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

I would have trusted my wife to have opposite sex friends.

My wife would have probably been OK with me going on a trip and even sharing a room with a woman. She would have known to be rested up for when I got home because there wouldn't be much sleeping going on for a day or two when I got back.

During the majority of our relationship, if one of us saw someone we thought was attractive, it wouldn't be long before it was acknowledged. Just acknowledging the attractiveness of the other person usually robbed it of most of its power. By the time this stopped being the case, I think the marriage was on life support for other reasons.

If I marry again, it would only be to someone I could trust to have a male friend and not do something inappropriate.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You seem to have a long track record that this has worked out okay, as far as you know. So at 31 years it seems your trust wasn't misplaced.
> 
> What is naïve is to think that nothing could possibly happen simply because you trust your wife. These affairs often sneak up on both people, it isn't planned. Males and females are naturally attracted to each other and time alone can and will foster that attraction. There is such a huge body of evidence that these interactions are the primary source for infidelity. Not acknowledging that is what is naive.
> 
> Just curious, where would you draw the line? If a weekend away with an old college friend is okay once, what about twice? Or annually, or every month? How many texts to a male friend is too much? How many dinner dates with a male friend is too many? Also, do you have to know the male friends your wife hangs out with, or are you okay with you not being acquainted with them?


You raise some good questions. And my answers would depend on a variety of things/parameters for my own relationships, as they affect the degree of risk and severity of possible consequences. I don't trust blindly, but I do trust my wife to act within the parameters we've agreed because we have a long history of doing so. If we had children at home, our parameters would be tighter, as the consequences _for them_ could be greater. Once we had no children at home, that was no longer a concern, so we have much more flexibility and the only consequences that would really hurt would be the financial costs of splitting up over a large transgression - we could both easily find someone else if it came to that. So, it's all negotiable, and changes with our experiences and comfort levels. We have almost no limits on seeing opposite sex friends, except that if they start taking too much time from *our time together*, we'll discuss it and adjust to make it comfortable. We have more limits on sexual and romantic partners, and they can differ for each of us because of our different comfort levels. We're both okay with seeing a platonic friend weekly, for example, to spend an evening hanging out (even alone). She's okay with me seeing a lover once a week (which has rarely happened for all but a short time), but not in addition to _also_ seeing a friend - that would take too much away from _our_ time together. I'm okay with her seeing someone a little less frequently. We're both okay with the occasional overnight, or a rare multi-day trip. We've always known each other's partners, but it isn't a hard requirement. Any plans outside the usual get discussed and negotiated so we're both comfortable, and even the usual is subject to revision at any time. We've practiced ENM (ethical non-monogamy) since we met 21 years ago, but _our priority has always been helping each other be happy_. So opposite sex friends are hardly ever a concern at all unless they become lovers; then we figure out what works in the circumstances.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Married but Happy said:


> You raise some good questions. And my answers would depend on a variety of things/parameters for my own relationships, as they affect the degree of risk and severity of possible consequences. I don't trust blindly, but I do trust my wife to act within the parameters we've agreed because we have a long history of doing so. If we had children at home, our parameters would be tighter, as the consequences _for them_ could be greater. Once we had no children at home, that was no longer a concern, so we have much more flexibility and the only consequences that would really hurt would be the financial costs of splitting up over a large transgression - we could both easily find someone else if it came to that. So, it's all negotiable, and changes with our experiences and comfort levels. We have almost no limits on seeing opposite sex friends, except that if they start taking too much time from *our time together*, we'll discuss it and adjust to make it comfortable. We have more limits on sexual and romantic partners, and they can differ for each of us because of our different comfort levels. We're both okay with seeing a platonic friend weekly, for example, to spend an evening hanging out (even alone). She's okay with me seeing a lover once a week (which has rarely happened for all but a short time), but not in addition to _also_ seeing a friend - that would take too much away from _our_ time together. I'm okay with her seeing someone a little less frequently. We're both okay with the occasional overnight, or a rare multi-day trip. We've always known each other's partners, but it isn't a hard requirement. Any plans outside the usual get discussed and negotiated so we're both comfortable, and even the usual is subject to revision at any time. We've practiced ENM (ethical non-monogamy) since we met 21 years ago, but _our priority has always been helping each other be happy_. So opposite sex friends are hardly ever a concern at all unless they become lovers; then we figure out what works in the circumstances.


Ok, so sorry, but you are not the right audience for this question really. Or at least it has to be modified significantly. You are in an open marriage, so what you do has very little if any applicability to married and monogamous couples.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I really meant devote you energy to your spouse instead of all friends, not just opposite sex. Your spouse still deserves the bulk of your energy and time, especially your personal and private one-on-one time. I never said anyone shouldn't have opposite sex friends.


That certainly seems to be the bulk of the argument, unless such a friend is part of a couple and the couples see each other together. I can agree with the concept that one's spous(es) should have the bulk of their energy and time, but that has no bearing upon whether the friends one does have outside of the marriage are same sex or opposite sex.



> There should be boundaries and they are going to be different between opposite sex and same sex friends.


I fully disagree here. However, it should be noted that I am disagreeing on this as a blanket statement. Those boundaries might be different between the types for some, but won't be for others. For that matter, while the boundaries for same and opposite sex friends may be different, they may also be different between you and another for the same type.



> *For me,* those boundaries are clear. You don't go on private one-on-one dates with friends of the opposite sex. You don't go on one-on-one weekends sharing a room with friends of the opposite sex. You don't have private conversations, texts, calls, etc., that you won't share with your spouse with friends of the opposite sex. If a spouse is bi then they shouldn't do any of these private one-on-one things with either sex. Again, not that they can't have friends, there are just boundaries around those friends.


That is the key. What is killing me here is the overwhelming sentiment that these boundaries are supposed to be universal. Very rarely am I reading, "for me the boundaries are A, B and C". There is rare acknowledgement that the boundaries will vary from very little to bloody near paranoid (which are indeed some of what I have seen on this forum, albeit not necessarily this thread). I will never have an issue with someone noting what their personal boundaries for their specific marriage is. It's when others are trying to claim that others' boundaries are not respectful of the spouse or means that they are not serious in their marriage and similar sentiments.



> You are welcome to have your Transformer hobbies, very cool by the way.


Thank you. I've got some G1's and even most of the animated movie's promo limited edition figures.



> I'm into car audio competitions and my wife has zero interest in it. I travel for this hobby, sometimes overnight. I'll possibly share a room with another male friend if I can't convince her to come with (which she does from time to time), but I would never consider sharing a room with a female friend. I just won't share a hotel room with a woman that isn't my wife. You don't give up your friends or hobbies, you just have clear boundaries.


Of which I am alright with,_ for your marriage_. But as I said, it's when people try to make such a practice out to be the required universal standard.



> I actually agree with you about common sense. One person's common sense could be another person's non-sense based on many factors. What I was getting at was your comment: "Your _experience _might tell you that you "shouldn’t ignore human nature and statistics", but my _experience_ tells me to only marry someone I can trust to have opposite sex friends." I said we all marry someone we can trust or at least expect that we can trust and I doubt any person gets into a marriage just so they can have an affair down the road at some point. Yet it happens far too often and the facts are clear. When an affair happens the majority of the time it is with a well known close friend. If you can avoid the possibility of, or perception of an inappropriate relationship, why not do it? Especially when it is as simple as involving your spouse, which you should want to do anyway.


I think one of the reasons that it happens far too often is people dive into these marriages without bothering to really learn who their spouse is/will be. As to perception, that will vary. Many have the perception of my having an affair with many of my female friends, and even a few of the male ones, but my spouses do not see it. Aside from the fact that I have always been up front and honest with them, they know how I am when I am actively looking for another.



> I don't think a married person should be engaging in anything that is consider part of a typical courtship ritual with a person other than their spouse


A major problem there is what you might consider typical, others might not. I am of a crowd that flirts for the sake of flirting, and not because we are seriously after something.



> And if we get back to the situation that the OP is in, opposite sex friends are obviously not going to work. This is an extreme case, but clearly the OPs husband has no boundaries.


I'm agreeing about the OP's specific situation. However, that still does not mean that there is a universal standard as many have implied in this thread.



> In the end all I am doing, and you are doing, is describing how we fell about opposite sex friends and how our spouses interact with them. *I don't think there is a one size fits all correct answer.* You may feel dates, overnights and private conversations between your spouse and opposite sex friends is okay, but I don't. I do suspect you are in the minority with that point of view though. Even so, it is your choice. *My wife and I are in complete agreement, so really that is all that matters*. I would say you are right on about experience dictating what you consider common sense. My wife and I have been together so long that we literally do not have any friends that aren't from the time we've been together. I think that has a big impact on our point of view.


These are key. The problem I have been having and railing against is others trying to claim that there is a one size fits all "code of conduct". You and I seem to be of an accord, at least as of this posting, even if it took a few posts to get there.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Hiner112 said:


> During the majority of our relationship, if one of us saw someone we thought was attractive, it wouldn't be long before it was acknowledged. Just acknowledging the attractiveness of the other person usually robbed it of most of its power. By the time this stopped being the case, I think the marriage was on life support for other reasons.


My spouses and I do this all the time for each other. Often my wives are pointing out a sexy or beautiful women to me before I spot them, and I and my husband to them before they have seen the handsome men. I don't know if that same dynamic is in play with us, but I do agree that such is probably a factor in some relationships.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Ok, so sorry, but you are not the right audience for this question really. Or at least it has to be modified significantly. You are in an open marriage, so what you do has very little if any applicability to married and monogamous couples.


Not really. ENM people are no less susceptible to being cheated on than monogamous people. Even for those who are poly (as opposed to swingers), they can have closed marriages, and as such would have different parameters for how outside friendships with certain sexes would be handled within their relationships.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> Not really. ENM people are no less susceptible to being cheated on than monogamous people. Even for those who are poly (as opposed to swingers), they can have closed marriages, and as such would have different parameters for how outside friendships with certain sexes would be handled within their relationships.


I don't think you can apply what is good in an open marriage to what would be good in a monogamous marriage. The two mindset are completely different.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Unknown2u said:


> Are you ok with your spouse having a friend/friends of the opposite sex?
> 
> *Marriage sucks! *


Sure. Before we were married we both had friends of the opposite sex and now that we are married, we haven't dumped our friends from before. I talk to my female friends online, they live a distance away from me and she does the same with her male friends. we don't get jealous because there is no need to. Now I will say that the female friends I have are not someone I would want to have an affair with, even though one was an old flame from High School. She was cute back them but time had not been nice to either of us and we are just old wrinkled over weight friends. And it is the same with the other female friends I have. The female friends that In would have an affair with are gone and yes we did have a sexual relationship before I met my wife. One died from a drug over dose and the other was young cute and married. She wanted me to ride off on my Harley with her but we eventually broke up and she went on to another guy, left her husband and kids for him. So there are no temptations with the friends I do talk to, and my wife knows them.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't think you can apply what is good in an open marriage to what would be good in a monogamous marriage. The two mindset are completely different.


I am saying that there is just as much variability in a poly or open marriage as to what is good and right as there is in a monogamous one. There is very few problems that appear in one that doesn't appear in the other, taking them both in aggregate.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Unknown2u said:


> Are you ok with your spouse having a friend/friends of the opposite sex?
> 
> *Marriage sucks! *


Absolutely


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

My wife and I are fine with having other sex friends.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The choices seem a little one side. I pass.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> My wife and I are fine with having other sex friends.





Longtime Hubby said:


> Absolutely


What boundaries, if any do you put on those friendships?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What boundaries, if any do you put on those friendships?


It depends, if something doesn't feel right one of us will speak up, otherwise the following has worked for us.

So on infrequent occasion, my wife will sometimes have lunch alone with one of her male friends while she is at work. My wife has also been in touch with a couple of her exes on Facebook as well. My wife has also visited one of her male friends alone, to check in on him and corresponds with him very rarely via email on occasion.

While for myself on infrequent occasion, I have caught up with one of my female friends alone at a cafe. Plus on infrequent occasion I will meet one of my female friends for dinner, then do an activity with her before sometimes taking her home to her place and even staying for a bit before I head home (and my wife sometimes reminds me to catch up with her).

I also very infrequently keep in touch with some female friends (mostly Facebook, sometimes phone and sometimes out in person) that I have known since childhood and or teen years. Plus the same also applies to some limited ex sexual partners as well.

Also in the early years of our marriage, when I was away from my wife for work, I sometimes went out drinking and dancing with some female friends from work (my wife knew about this at the time and was/is fine with it).

Plus I spent the night alone with an ex-sexual partner at her place, after meeting her by random chance one day (my wife knew about that as well and again was fine with it). We're also still in touch and my wife and I have also stayed with her and her now husband together after that.

With all of that we have happily been together, in a so far very high frequency non-vanilla and monogamous (to the best of my knowledge), sexual relationship. That has lasted 25 years, inclusive of a 22 year and 2 month marriage.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> It depends, if something doesn't feel right one of us will speak up, otherwise the following has worked for us.
> 
> So on infrequent occasion, my wife will sometimes have lunch alone with one of her male friends while she is at work. My wife has also been in touch with a couple of her exes on Facebook as well. My wife has also visited one of her male friends alone, to check in on him and corresponds with him very rarely via email on occasion.
> 
> ...


Even though some of this would make me very rather uncomfortable, this doesn't sound all that unreasonable. And obviously it hasn't harmed your relationship. As far as your examples go, it seems to be much more common for you than your wife to interact with the opposite sex. I just wonder how often the friendships that end up turning into affairs start just like this and slowly creep into inappropriate territory. Since it is accepted at this low frequency level how easy is it for a spouse going to pick up on it going into inappropriate territory? By the time they realize it they will now have the seed of doubt and distrust planted. You said if something doesn't feel right one of us will speak up. Has that ever actually happened and how did you deal with it?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You said if something doesn't feel right one of us will speak up. Has that ever actually happened and how did you deal with it?


The closest has been my wife coming to me and asking my opinion if some other mans texts to her a fishing expedition. She said she felt uncomfortable and wanted my opinion on it. I agreed with her and she killed contact with the guy.

There's also an ex of hers that with a different profile sends her a friends request every few years. She has messaged him initially yet it became clear he was fishing (he is 12 years her senior). She just ignores his requests these days.

She also had one man (not a friend) who was a client of one of the government services she managed, who kept trying to talk to her (my wife doesn't often wear her wedding ring, and I have almost never worn mine). Then once he found out she went to a pub after work with some work colleagues on the same day of the week for half an hour. He then started trying to talk to her at that venue, so after a couple of weeks of that, she asked me to come to their after work catch up. Where she introduced me to the guy who I was happy to talk to (I was even friendly), yet he wasn't keen. Anyway after that he left her alone.

I had a number of women, some who were then very recent friends, directly proposition me back when we were in our late 20s through early 40s. Yet I simply turned down their offers (one even asked if I was gay when I declined) and let them go, or weren't close to let them go in the first place. While I would also tell my wife, about it on the occasions it happened.

Plus I used to get asked out on dates a lot, into my 30s by different women, yet that wasn't an issue.

If I want to cheat on my wife I will choose to do so. Likewise if my wife wants to cheat on me she will choose to do so. And for both of us we wouldn't need to draw on our friends to go down that path.

Although I have poor tolerance for people cheating on me, which is why my ex-wife is my ex-wife (only example). Yet I am not going to worry about my wife unless I have good reason to. And I don't see any value in holding on so tight, when both of us are sometimes apart from each other for work. Although it's getting close to two years since either of us have been away from each other.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Personal said:


> The closest has been my wife coming to me and asking my opinion if some other mans texts to her a fishing expedition. She said she felt uncomfortable and wanted my opinion on it. I agreed with her and she killed contact with the guy.
> 
> There's also an ex of hers that with a different profile sends her a friends request every few years. She has messaged him initially yet it became clear he was fishing (he is 12 years her senior). She just ignores his requests these days.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the feedback. Even though I have an opinion on it, I've honestly never really had to deal with this. My wife and I have been together for what seems like forever, 34 years and since we were 16 & 18 years old. Neither of us have any close friends from before we were together that aren't mutual friends. I've almost never worked closely with more than just a couple women, since they aren't typically in my field and my hobbies are also mostly guys. My wife has worked with men, but on the single instance she went to lunch one on one with one of them she felt uncomfortable like it was a date, so she never did it again. We just don't seem to be all that interested in friends of the opposite sex. The exception is the spouses of our mutual friends, where we have many good opposite sex friends. But with those, if my wife is talking to one of the guys it is usually setting up a get together with all of us. We are also a complete open book to each other. We both have access to each other's phones, computers, etc. We even ask each other to read and respond to texts we get when we aren't able to for some reason. So, like I said, my wife and I share the same opinion on this, but it is all pretty much theoretical for us. 

Your comment near the end there, where if one of us wants to cheat we are going to cheat, is what I've been thinking about a lot while reading and responding here. Even if the most common source of infidelity is a close friend, does that really mean the close relationship is the cause of the infidelity or just an easy access point? Would they have cheated anyway? Odds are if they cheat with a close friend or a complete stranger their was an existing problem in the marriage and/or the person has a character flaw and things would have gone badly under any circumstances. In the case of marital problems, keep up a good relationship will address that. And the charter flaw is out of your control and they will behave badly with or without a good marriage.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Will just say that neither wife and nor I have ever had any OS friends. All of our friends are mostly couples. I recall being shocked in the late seventies when a coworker came to a company function with a female he introduced to wife and I as his GF, saying his wife didn't wnt to go the the function, so he had brought his GF. Maybe it was platonic, but we were both a bit uncomfortable. We are from an older generation.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Rus47 said:


> Will just say that neither wife and nor I have ever had any OS friends. All of our friends are mostly couples. I recall being shocked in the late seventies when a coworker came to a company function with a female he introduced to wife and I as his GF, saying his wife didn't wnt to go the the function, so he had brought his GF. Maybe it was platonic, but we were both a bit uncomfortable. We are from an older generation.


I suppose that applies to me as well. Someone mentioned no longer being attractive. For whatever reason, when I think of a guy having opposite sex friends, I’m picturing a Jennifer Lopez type and thinking it odd that they are just friends and odd that the wife doesn’t have a problem with it. Perhaps all opposite sex friends are not attractive. Lol.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

southbound said:


> I suppose that applies to me as well. Someone mentioned no longer being attractive. For whatever reason, when I think of a guy having opposite sex friends, I’m picturing a Jennifer Lopez type and thinking it odd that they are just friends and odd that the wife doesn’t have a problem with it. Perhaps all opposite sex friends are not attractive. Lol.


Attractiveness isn't a criterion for platonic friends for me. Some of them are, some are not.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Unknown2u said:


> Are you ok with your spouse having a friend/friends of the opposite sex?


It depends.
How close of a friend?
What do they do?

Not a really close, intimate male friend.
Not if they talk and text hours a day, share intimate things, want to have lunches and dinners alone together...."friend dates", travel to places together.

If that is the deal then it crosses ny boundaries and I wouldn't have dated or married her.


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