# I feel violent



## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Some background first. I met my wife 5 years ago now on eHarmony and we've been married for 4 years now. We had different paths in life. I was raised to be self-sufficient and had a somewhat crappy childhood. My mother has been married/divorced 3 times now and my I haven't spoken to my father in 10 years now. My father is a workaholic and is clinically paranoid schizophrenic--the state took him away from his parents at 2 years old because they were abusive and he never really recovered. I lived with my dad in high school and attempted suicide at 17. At 17 I turned my life around, stop talking to my dad, and I have had a full time job ever since. I literally spent 16 hours/day either at work and/or school in my early 20's and never had time for relationships--I was too busy busting ass. As a result, my wife is really the only girlfriend/relationship I've ever had and I ended up marrying her. I was a virgin until marriage by choice and entered our relationship debt free and accomplished professionally and personally.

My wife's parents were both remarried in their 2nd marriage when they had her. Her mother was 45 when she got pregnant with my wife. Her half-brother from her mom's previous marriage had 2 kids and was a party animal/drinker/drug user and as a result, her parents ended up legally adopting the 2 kids when my wife was a teenager. She spent her high school years helping raise 2 kids and has a lot of resentment (rightfully so) towards her half-brother. Dad has since died of cancer 2 years ago and mom is 74 and raising 2 teenagers alone. Her mom is a big hippie and doesn't believe in modern medicine, so as a result the oldest's severe ADHD goes untreated and is a source of frustration within her family. My wife never went away for college (nor did I), but she spent her college years going out dancing, partying, and drinking. By the time I met her, she had been with many boyfriends and had several thousand in credit card debt.

When we got married, we put everything together financially. We didn't buy a starter home and skipped to buying our second home first--a brand new 3 bed/2.5 bath 2000 sq foot home. We've lived there for 4 years now. My wife got an MBA through her corporate job (they paid for it) and as of 2 years ago she had a stable enough job earning $50k/year and was the breadwinner--I was bringing in around $35k. She hated her corporate job and planned on going into business for herself as a wedding/event planner. She worked full time, went to school full time for her MBA, and was starting her business on the side, so she stayed very busy. I was not in school at the time, so I gladly stepped up to the plate and I did 75%+ of the housework and took care of things.

Finally, 1 year ago in October, I convinced my wife to finally quit her job. She was a mess worried about finances. I earned about $60k last year and she had income also, but assuming she was going to earn $0 since nothing was guaranteed--we were taking a step back financially to make it happen and increase her quality of life. Again, I stepped up to the plate and bust my ass to make sure we're taken care of. I will earn around $80k this year and her full year earning this year will be around $12k. Our finances are together, so it doesn't matter where the money comes from, as long as it makes its way into the bank account to take care of the mortgage.

My wife is an extrovert and I am an introvert. I am very process driven and results oriented and she is very "feeling" and her first priority is to make sure everyone around her is having a good time and is happy. I started a graduate certificate for work back in the summer, which finished in December and I also started grad school this fall. I am currently working full time, going to school full time, and also finishing a masters certificate on the side, so I am busy. Furthermore, my wife doesn't have a manager to turn to for resolving problems and is on her own, so she is always turning to me for help on issues.

These past 6 months or so I've grown dissatisfied with our marriage and I've made it clear to her. I have told her my issues many times and she has listened and said she's going to make things better, but it never happens. I don't spend any money on anything but the basics--like most guys. My wife spends money on all sorts of crap. She is always buying stuff at TJ Maxx or wherever, whether it be clothes, stuff for her business, etc. Shopping makes her feel good. Frankly, I don't care about the money aspect because I can always make more money. What pisses me off is the clutter. She claimed she couldn't remain organized because she needs her own desk. I told her to go out and buy a desk then--she did and she never uses it and she's more unorganized than ever. She has bags of stuff that she needs to return to the store in several corners of our bedroom. She has paper and magazines all over our office. She has crap shoved in the guest bedroom closets. I came home from the gym on Friday after a long week at work and the first thing she said when I walked in the door was look at what I bought from wherever the hell she went shopping that day. I have given her everything she's ever wanted physically--we've spent $1000s on new furniture, new TV, new couch, etc in recent months. I don't ask for much of anything, but to keep the house tidy and not have crap everywhere--she doesn't seem to care.

She literally has only 1 small wedding through the rest of the year as wedding season is over. She's had the past 2 weeks with nothing of real urgency/importance to take care of, but parts of the house still remain a cluttered mess. She bought a jewelry box that hangs on the wall a long time ago and claimed if I hung it for her, she could keep her jewelry organized. I hung it for her months ago and she still hasn't taken the time to put pictures in the front and we still have the stock pictures. Hanging it literally took 1 screw in the wall (which she could have done) and it's literally no bigger than a computer monitor, so it's not like she couldn't lift it up. She had a huge pile of laundry that needed to be ironed. After about 3 months I got tired of looking at it and spent 3 hours ironing everything because I was tired of looking at it, which bring me to my next point...

Drinking. She plans weddings and attends parties for a living now. I spent 3 hours ironing on a Sunday when she was hungover from partying the night before. I've confronted her every single time after she has gotten drunk to let her know I wasn't happy. This particular instance she went to an after-party from a wedding and I waited up until 5am until she came home drunk. She was to be home around Midnight, but decided to stay out without telling me. Finally, when I called her, she was ambiguous and refused to tell me where she was and was clearly intoxicated on the phone. The kicker? When she was away doing her wedding thing, I had cleaned the entire house from top to bottom, taken delivery of new furniture that day, and went above and beyond so she came home to a clean, organized house. I ended up chewing her out on the phone and making her cry. She ended up calling her sister to pick her up and bring her home. The next day, guess who was lucky enough to be inconvenienced with driving 45 minutes each way to pick up her car? Me.

Everytime this happens, I tell her I'm not happy--she's a different person when she's drunk and she's out of control. Last night, it happened again. We had a Halloween party and the night ended with her in the garage crying about how no one is happy because we didn't make a fire in the firepit and make smores. She was going on about smores. We had ~20 people over and there were literally 4 people left at the party including us. After everyone left after drinking way more than we had planned for (our liquor cabinet was wiped out, we had bought 6 bottles of Champagne for ourselves (6 pack discount) and my wife decided to put them in the freezer so everyone could drink them), she ended up crying on the couch about the damn smores. It was all my fault for not building a fire. I finally got up and yelled at her, telling her I wasn't going to put up with her bull**** tonight and went upstairs, slammed the bedroom door, and went to bed. I had been drinking also, but I drink in moderation and have never been hungover, blacked out, etc.

On top of all this, our sex life sucks. I confronted her about it last November because we only had sex a few times a month. She had been with 13 other guys sexually before me and I had been with 0. I love sex, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'd love to have sex every day if I could. I am very physically attracted to my wife, but she is very insecure when it comes to sex. She said that she finds me physically attractive as well and the problem was with her. There was nothing I could do to fix it--she had to take care of it and I just had to be patient. As a result, here we are a year later after acupuncture, herbal teas, etc. and sex is like a solar eclipse in our house. I've told her I want to feel wanted--she never makes the first move and I get shot down 80%+ of the time when I make the first move. The only place we ever have sex is in bed. I am sexually frustrated at this point. She is not adventurous at all, is insecure, and doesn't seem very interested when we do have sex. She won't talk about her fantasies and me sharing mine makes her even more insecure. One of my fantasies, like every other warm blooded male, is having a threesome. She started crying and says she wants to be enough for me and doesn't want to share me, yet she'll be the first one to start kissing girls at parties. I have never done anything like this and have remained 100% faithful and loyal. I really don't care that she kisses girls at parties--it's the insecurities and inconsistencies that I mind. She spends so much time/energy making sure every else is happy, I get the leftover crumbs at the end of the day. We don't have sex at night because she is too tired when she goes to bed. We don't have sex in the morning because she's tired when she wakes up. I literally spend about 3 hours a day awake in my own house and she wants to go out and spend money going to dinner, getting drinks, and dancing. We also have 3 dogs, 2 of which shed like mad. I've told her I don't want the dogs on the bed because of the hair. She doesn't care that we sleep in a bed covered in hair and in the rare event that we do have sex, we always end up with a mouthful of hair, which is not romantic at all.

So at this point, after dealing with a drunk wife Saturday night and a hungover wife on Sunday, I spent the day doing school work and the more I think about things, the more violent I feel. I have been refusing to talk about any of this with my wife because I feel like I'm going to flip my ****. I want to drive my fist through her jewelry box. I want to throw all of her **** away in the office that is everywhere. I want to burn my ****ing house down. I have spent the past 4 years putting her needs above mine and I feel there is no reciprocation. I have told her many times what is important to me: having an uncluttered home, active sex life, financial security. That's pretty much all it takes to make me happy. I get dismissed as just being overly particular about things. I'm tired of being the adult in the relationship. I'm tired of being the responsible one. I'm tired of my wants and needs being ignored. If my house burned down today and everything I owned was destroyed, I feel like I'd be happier than I am today. I wish poor as hell and broke. Part of me really regrets not spending my younger years going to clubs, getting drunk, and taking home women every night and having sex. I feel like I missed out.

So that's the long and the short. It's groundhog day at home. It's the same issues and same ****, different day. I can spout off the same old talking points I've been spouting off for months and just get ignored, but I'm at the end of my rope. I feel like I need to stop being a nice guy and just start being a complete **** to get what I want. I'm feel like I've let myself get railroaded because I was foolish enough to put my wife's needs above my own. I have been dodging my wife these past couple days and telling her nothing is wrong and when she presses me I just flat out tell her I don't want to talk. I feel like if I talk to her about it, either nothing will get done and/or I'll manifest my violent feelings and do something I will regret.

I'm hoping that by posting on here, someone will give me a golden bullet to solve things before I end up physically destroying my surroundings out of frustration. Can anyone help me?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Well, so much for those e-Harmony t.v. ads where the people are gushing about finding their "soulmate" ...

Your post makes it clear that your wife's shopping sprees, sloppiness, and drinking bother you. From what I'm reading, it sounds like you get angry - and let her know you are really ticked off - she promises to do better, but nothing ever gets resolved.

I could be wrong, but her shopping sprees and sloppiness sound like they could be OCD. This is something obsessive-compulsives love to do; shop til they drop, leaving the resulting clutter strewn throughout the house.

I understand your frustration, but it doesn't sound like you've ever addressed these issues with her in a calm, loving manner. You started out by gladly taking on additional household tasks, then when she had the opportunity to take up the slack, she didn't. You continued to get things done in order for the house to look livable. However, it got to a point where you were frustrated and annoyed, yet you continued to clean, iron, whatever-it-took; things you felt she should be doing.

When we do things we don't really wish to do and feel someone else should be doing them, be start to feel victimized: "Why should I be doing all this b.s., when she SHOULD be doing it? What the heck is wrong with her? Can't she see our home looks like a pig stye?" Maybe not. If she's got OCD, or if she is simply someone who doesn't care if she lives in a sloppy house, it's fine by her.

The drinking. She may just get plastered at parties, she may have a problem with booze. I don't know. It doesn't sound like drinking is something she is doing in the middle of the afternoon, with you arriving home to find her passed out. Okay, she went on about the s'mores. When people get drunk, they act rather silly. 

Still, with all the issues you have discussed that are pissing you off big-time, you still want to have sex with your wife. I don't understand that, because you sound so annoyed with her, I don't see how you would find her particularly appealing at this point. To each his own.

Time to put your anger aside. You are results-oriented, she is not. This is a difference between the two of you, and it may be what is triggering you. You can't change her, but you can CALMLY discuss your concerns. See if you can get her to meet you halfway. Her promises to change in the past sound like a way just to get you off her back. Getting in arguments about these issues isn't working.

If you find that a calm, rational discussion nets no results, you should seriously consider MC. Anyone who is angry enough to feel violent and starts thinking about physically destroying their own environment has reached their saturation point. Violence of any sort will not constructively solve your situation. 

Time for the big talk, and looking into MC.


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> I could be wrong, but her shopping sprees and sloppiness sound like they could be OCD. This is something obsessive-compulsives love to do; shop til they drop, leaving the resulting clutter strewn throughout the house.


She is a far cry from OCD in my opinion. She has said that new clothes make her feel good about herself and she gets tired of things quickly and needs variety, so she buys more clothes. I think this is normal for women to do, although I don't agree with it--I buy clothes for myself less than twice a year (not to say I don't dress nice). She does have an issue, and acknowledges she has an issue, of starting a task and seeing it through completion.



> I understand your frustration, but it doesn't sound like you've ever addressed these issues with her in a calm, loving manner. You started out by gladly taking on additional household tasks, then when she had the opportunity to take up the slack, she didn't. You continued to get things done in order for the house to look livable. However, it got to a point where you were frustrated and annoyed, yet you continued to clean, iron, whatever-it-took; things you felt she should be doing.


I am a very calm person and very objective/rational. We have never had a fight where we've yelled or screamed or threw things. I wrote a long 10+ page letter to her after the wedding after-party incident and she has made one changed I asked for, which was to stop complaining so much. She used to always say "I need ____" and so I'd tell her to go out and buy ____ and she'd never do it. She was happy just complaining about the things she didn't have, but even when I said go out and buy it--we have the money--it never happened. 



> If she's got OCD, or if she is simply someone who doesn't care if she lives in a sloppy house, it's fine by her.


The house she grew up in (her mother's) is a cluttered mess and she complains about how cluttered her mom's house is, but doesn't mind the clutter in our home. This isn't good enough for me. She has told me that she cares about putting the toilet seat down, so I make a conscious effort to put the seat down and I do it. I don't feel I'm being unreasonable for her to make a conscious effort to accommodate me in something that I care about.



> The drinking. She may just get plastered at parties, she may have a problem with booze. I don't know. It doesn't sound like drinking is something she is doing in the middle of the afternoon, with you arriving home to find her passed out. Okay, she went on about the s'mores. When people get drunk, they act rather silly.


My wife complains that she is home all day and needs to get out. The problem is, she can't go out without having a drink or two with friends--or if they come over, she has a drink or two with them. She doesn't have the self-control to cut herself off when she should, but she is only getting drunk once or twice every few months. In fact, one of her former colleagues at her corporate job had a 0.27 BAC and drove up and off-ramp and killed a woman in a head-on collision going the wrong way on the highway about a year ago. The victim's family is now suing the bars for not cutting the girl off and my wife thinks the bars are partially guilty for the accident versus the girl taking personal responsibility for her own actions (she's awaiting trial as we speak).



> Still, with all the issues you have discussed that are pissing you off big-time, you still want to have sex with your wife. I don't understand that, because you sound so annoyed with her, I don't see how you would find her particularly appealing at this point. To each his own.


I love my wife and I've told her I want to feel loved. I want her to tackle me when I get home and want to make love to me. The only way I get sex is if I ask for it or if she's drunk and horny (which her being drunk is a huge turnoff for me). It is very rare that she jumps my bones because she wants to. I guess I really don't want to have sex with her--I want her to have sex with me. She is always saying that we should go out dancing or to a bar on a weeknight because it's not like we're 40 years old and should stay at home every night. I use that same line with her that we're not 40 years old and should be having sex more than a handful of times a month. The end result is nothing happens either way. I literally have a meeting every morning at 8:10am with the President of my company whereas she can sleep the day away if she wants because she works from home and can make her own schedule.



> If you find that a calm, rational discussion nets no results, you should seriously consider MC. Anyone who is angry enough to feel violent and starts thinking about physically destroying their own environment has reached their saturation point. Violence of any sort will not constructively solve your situation.
> 
> Time for the big talk, and looking into MC.


I have considered marriage counseling, but I feel it would be futile and there must be another way. I can't make her care. She tells me what she cares about, such as the toilet seat issue, and I pour my heart and soul into ensuring I'm attentive to what she cares about. I tell her what I care about and I'm labelled as being overly particular and get broken promises.

I appreciate your insight. I have been stewing about this all morning at work and perusing the forums/internet. I feel like my wife is a follower--not a leader. I already feel like the adult in the house and she has said I talk to her like I'm her father sometimes. I feel like I need to change and stop being a nice guy. I need to walk the fine line of being the alpha male and being an ******* versus being the alpha male and a nice guy. She lives in my house and I'll be damned if I'm going to let her disrespect me or my home. If she wants to sleep with the dogs, she can do it downstairs on the couch--not in my ****ing bed. If she wants to have clutter everywhere, she can do it in a hotel room. I feel like I have reached a saturation point and it's time to start pushing back. I have threatened to leave the house and stay in a hotel when she's been drunk because I don't want to deal with her. In the wedding after-party instance, I told her not to expect me being home when she gets there because I didn't want to deal with her. She convinced me to stay and "talk" when she got home. That didn't happen and she went straight to bed. I cried downstairs and considered leaving for a hotel, but didn't because I thought her sister had driven her home in her car and I didn't want her driving after me. I feel like I've had this all wrong. I have been treating the house as if it were her house. Every piece of furniture she picked out. I painted the walls the colors she picked out. **** this. I need to take my house back or find another place to call home. I need to lay down the law and let her know I'm not putting up with any of her bull**** anymore. If she won't listen to me, the person she says she loves more than anyone in the world, then she can hit the ****ing road--she's not going to listen to a marriage counselor.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

wafer said:


> She is a far cry from OCD in my opinion. She has said that new clothes make her feel good about herself and she gets tired of things quickly and needs variety, so she buys more clothes. I think this is normal for women to do


I don't shop for new clothes. In fact, I hate shopping. If I can't go into a store, grab it off a rack, and take it home ... forget it! Sure, I know women who have a walk-in closet jam packed with clothes. Just not my thing. Suppose that puts me in the "abnormal" category.



wafer said:


> I love my wife and I've told her I want to feel loved. I have considered marriage counseling, but I feel it would be futile and there must be another way.


Why? You've written a 10-page letter, you've rationally discussed these concerns with her many times, and still you are in the same place. Nothing changes if nothing changes. 



wafer said:


> I appreciate your insight. I have been stewing about this all morning at work and perusing the forums/internet. I feel like my wife is a follower--not a leader. I already feel like the adult in the house and she has said I talk to her like I'm her father sometimes. I feel like I need to change and stop being a nice guy. I need to walk the fine line of being the alpha male and being an ******* versus being the alpha male and a nice guy. She lives in my house and I'll be damned if I'm going to let her disrespect me or my home.


Perhaps you "appreciate" my insight, as you said. What I see is a discourse from you arguing every suggestion/insight/point I made. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions. You're combing the internet to find someone who agrees with your stance. In my never-to-be humble opinion, you are very, very angry. Call it whatever else you desire, but you are arguing with me. So, she lives in YOUR house, and you'll be damned if you are going to let her disrespect you. Hey, fine by me ... I don't live with the woman.

She doesn't appear to have any inclination to actually change, even after a 10-page letter. You think MC would be an exercise in futility. I dunno ... what does that leave you with? You can kick her a$$ to the curb.

I'm done debating this. You might want to post this in the Men's Clubhouse to get the men's perspective. I'm approaching it as a woman, albeit one who gets no charge out of clothes shopping ...


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> Perhaps you "appreciate" my insight, as you said. What I see is a discourse from you arguing every suggestion/insight/point I made. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions. You're combing the internet to find someone who agrees with your stance. In my never-to-be humble opinion, you are very, very angry. Call it whatever else you desire, but you are arguing with me.


I don't feel like I'm arguing at all. You don't have all the information and I know you're trying to do the best with the snapshot of info I've given. I don't think the possibilities you mentioned (OCD, etc) are accurate, but I understand why you'd come to these conclusions. I'm not combing the internet looking for someone to agree with me--I'm looking for help. I do feel like a victim in this and it's because I've let myself be the victim. The only thing I can change is myself and I need to stop letting myself get railroaded by putting my foot down. And you're damn right I'm angry. The person who is supposed to be my best friend and supposedly loves me more than anything in the world can't be bothered to care about my needs.



> She doesn't appear to have any inclination to actually change, even after a 10-page letter. You think MC would be an exercise in futility. I dunno ... what does that leave you with? You can kick her a$$ to the curb.


I guess this is my biggest struggle. She doesn't want to change, even if it makes me happy, so what's a guy to do? I feel like "goto a marriage counselor" is kind of a standard response to issues. Is there nothing I can do to make her understand that she needs to give a damn for me to live a happy life with her?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

wafer said:


> I do feel like a victim in this and it's because I've let myself be the victim. The only thing I can change is myself and I need to stop letting myself get railroaded by putting my foot down. And you're damn right I'm angry. The person who is supposed to be my best friend and supposedly loves me more than anything in the world can't be bothered to care about my needs.


I give you credit for having the guts to man-up and admit where you are having issues in your marriage. Yes, I hear your anger and I understnad it. But the thing is, if you feel she doesn't care about your needs - and you don't have the power (none of us do) to change another person - I am at a loss as to what I can tell you to do. It may be that you married a selfish, self-centered woman. I don't know. I'm only hearing your side. If you feel she is not "getting" it as to what you need, you have to decide if walking away is your only choice at this point in time.



wafer said:


> I guess this is my biggest struggle. She doesn't want to change, even if it makes me happy, so what's a guy to do? I feel like "goto a marriage counselor" is kind of a standard response to issues. Is there nothing I can do to make her understand that she needs to give a damn for me to live a happy life with her?


One of the main reasons for going to a marriage counselor is to get an impartial third party to sort through both sides of the story. There is your side, there is her side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. No, there is nothing you can do to make your wife understand "she needs to give a damn" for you. None of us was born with the ability to change another person. We can only change ourselves. Happiness is an inside job. Sure, people can make us happy or miserable, but they are not going to keep us happy. Why? Because humans inevitably let us down when they don't meet our expectations. I'm guilty of being p.o.'d when my ex didn't meet my expectations, and I let him down when I didn't meet his.

Given the constraints of what I can "hear" via cyberspace, I can only give my perspective with limitations. As I see it, you are between a rock and a hard place. Nothing is working. You can only change yourself. That's all any of us can do, because we only have power over our own behavior.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

wafer said:


> I guess this is my biggest struggle. She doesn't want to change, even if it makes me happy, so what's a guy to do? I feel like "goto a marriage counselor" is kind of a standard response to issues. Is there nothing I can do to make her understand that she needs to give a damn for me to live a happy life with her?


Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do. You've told her many times already the way you feel. You can't "make her understand" if she doesn't already. She either cares for you, or she doesn't. That is what you need to get out of her. You simply can't "change her". Maybe if you stop picking up after her and stop acting more like her father, she may come around eventually and see things for what they are. If she doesn't like what she sees, she'll make changes. If she simply doesn't give a rat's a$$, she won't. She'll be content to live like a pig. And if that doesn't make YOU happy, then you need to do what does; not by cleaning up her mess, ironing her clothes, etc. for HER. Maybe speak on terms of "why are we together?" :scratchhead:

Also, her being a wedding planner doesn't automatically give her to "go" to go to all the wedding parties. Wedding planner's do the planning and maybe attend the wedding. What's with all the partying? It sounds like she's made it her "job" to be a social "party girl".


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

You have let this go on too long, and now you have reached the boiling point. Your wife has no incentive to change because you have not made it clear to her that you will not tolerate her behavior.

I would create an action plan and involve her in the time line. Set goals with her about what needs to happen. Put it in writing. Let her know that you will no longer enable her behavior. If she refuses to make the changes in small but steady steps, file for divorce.

Unfortunately some people need to know that their spouse will not be eternally tolerant of their behavior. She may be miserable, and doesn't know how to change, so include her in the action plan. Ask for her ideas about how to make this work.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

lovesherman said:


> You have let this go on too long, and now you have reached the boiling point. Your wife has no incentive to change because you have not made it clear to her that you will not tolerate her behavior.
> 
> I would create an action plan and involve her in the time line. Set goals with her about what needs to happen. Put it in writing. Let her know that you will no longer enable her behavior. If she refuses to make the changes in small but steady steps, file for divorce.
> 
> Unfortunately some people need to know that their spouse will not be eternally tolerant of their behavior. She may be miserable, and doesn't know how to change, so include her in the action plan. Ask for her ideas about how to make this work.


:iagree::iagree:

Also, just because a couple is in their 40's, it doesn't mean that they cannot have a healthy sex life or social life.  Forty is not old-one still has at least 30 years left to live at that age, assuming no serious illnesses or accidents occur.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

wafer ~

You do not have to be either a victim or violent.

You can control your reactions to your wife's behaviours. And, you'll have to learn how to do that - because the only person in this whole scenario that you can even have a hope of changing is ... yourself.

Have you gone over to the Men's Clubhouse and looked through the sticky thread at the top? Some items that may interest you would be on boundary setting and passing fitness tests.

You need to learn how to set boundaries with your wife and enforce them - not with violence or shouting - but with firmness, humor, strength of character, patience.

If you're into reading, this is actually a very good book, specifically just for men, that deals with how to set/enforce boundaries in your life.

Amazon.com: Hold on to Your NUTs: The Relationship Manual for Men (9780979054402): Wayne M. Levine: Books

If you can start to set and enforce these boundaries, perhaps your wife will react to those positive changes in you. And if she doesn't react, you will still be in a better position to decide how you should move forward.

Best wishes.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

southern wife said:


> What's with all the partying? It sounds like she's made it her "job" to be a social "party girl".


I was waiting for someone to comment on this. I can't believe 125 views and no-one touched on it. And before you mention all do the talk of her drinking, that is a LOT different than figuring out WHO she was partying with until 5AM. 

Do you talk with her as to WHY she needs to party with these people after the wedding? Who does she party with? Men? Does she dance with them? Flirt with them? What does she say to them after they make it known they want to screw her? Does she continue to flirt after they've made their intentions known? Does she think much about the sexual tension surrounding her situation as she's heading out to party with these men? Where does she go? The bars and clubs are closed by 3:00.

You've got a few problems in your marriage, but her diesire to party with strange men is a bgger part of it than you think. It's a bigger problem than SHE may even know. She doesn't think she's cheating because she (probably) hasn't swapped any fluid with them. However, slow dancing with strange men at 4AM and not telling your husband about it is very much infidelity.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

wafer said:


> I feel like "goto a marriage counselor" is kind of a standard response to issues. Is there nothing I can do to make her understand that she needs to give a damn for me to live a happy life with her?


Think about it this way: You are hiring a professional to assist you. It's just like training a poorly behaved dog. You can keep trying and maybe it will eventually learn that trashing the house after you leave results in anger when you return, or you can bring it to a dog trainer. Not that your wife is a dog, but she sounds like she has no idea what she is actually doing and you have no idea why she is actually doing it. Sometimes you need an expert to help figure things out.


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

MrK said:


> ...
> You've got a few problems in your marriage, but her diesire to party with strange men is a bgger part of it than you think. It's a bigger problem than SHE may even know. She doesn't think she's cheating because she (probably) hasn't swapped any fluid with them. However, slow dancing with strange men at 4AM and not telling your husband about it is very much infidelity.


This is a really good point, and infidelity could explain much of her behavior.


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

So I confronted the wife last night. I wrote a 4 page letter of bullet points comprised of 20 NUTs (Non-negotiable Unalterable Terms), 10 things I want out of life/marriage, and 7 things that need to change, followed by a short note of how I feel I'm bubbling over and feel violent. I gave her the letter and took a shower after work. She seemed to handle it very well and we had dinner etc and a good night. Then when we went to bed, we spent 3 hours talking and going back and forth. She wasn't happy. She felt I gave her a list of demands and that was it, like she does nothing right in our marriage. She needs a lot of verbal affirmation that she is doing a good job and she feels she's just been getting a lot of letters about how ****ty she is lately (she has a client that wants to sue her, too).

Her big complaint was she felt I was trying to run our relationship like a business because I basically gave her a business plan that was to the point. She didn't appreciate my approach. I told her my previous efforts of expressing my concerns fell on deaf ears, so what's a guy to do? She was very defiant and irrational in her arguments. For example, I told her I felt everything I was asking for was reasonable. She automatically assumed that if I was being reasonable, that she was unreasonable. There were other non-sequitors as well, but I cut right through the bs and called her out on her false logic.

The turning point was when she said that she was upset that she wasn't making me happy. She said she would never do anything to intentionally hurt or upset me and that's when I emptied the chamber and just unloaded on her. I've expressed to her repeatedly that I don't like her when she gets drunk and basically ruins her entire weekend for a few hours of fun. Yet she continues to get drunk without any regard or consideration for how I feel and how much it disappoints me. Apparently this hit home and it hit hard. She went from calling my "demands" of what needs to change bull**** to full compliance.

She also claimed that she's just been overwhelmed by things because she's never started a business before. Again, logic came in (I'm an engineer personality type) and I explained that being overwhelmed is a symptom of the problem. The problem is she is unorganized and the house is a mess. As a result of her starting tasks and not finishing them, there is always something hanging over her head. As a result of that, she's always stressed out and overwhelmed and as a result of that she's never in the mood for sex and has to drink to "relax". The irony is, she claims to be so overwhelmed by things that she's paralyzed, yet she knew I was royally pissed all day yesterday and I came home to a clean house, office organized, dishes done, clothes ironed, and dinner on the table.

Anyways, in the end, here were my "demands" and I am getting my way because it is not unreasonable for me to request any of this from her.

1. House remains clean and tidy, period. She can't take herself seriously as a professional planner/organizer if she can't take pride in our #1 possession (our home) and keep it organized. She has a bad habit of starting things and not finishing them--yet she wouldn't leave the house with her hair half-done or her makeup half-done.

2. No drinking unless I'm with her for the next 3 months. She has said that she can't control herself when she reaches a certain point and ends up drinking to excess. I recalled an event where she called me to pick her up at a club where she was dancing with one of her friends because she didn't feel comfortable driving--no problem, last thing I want is her driving when she's even borderline over the limit. It was a 20-30 minute drive and since I was picking her up, she decided it was okay to several shots between her call and when I showed up like I gave her a free pass to get tanked. I told her I'm done enabling her to drink to excess. It is damaged her personal and professional relationships. She is a professional party planner and not a professional partier. If she needs alcohol to have fun, she's not really having fun. She stated that this was going to be the hardest thing for her to do--I told her if its difficult for her not to drink, that's the first sign of a drinking problem. She didn't like this, but couldn't refute it.

3. Money issues. I'm not enabling her anymore. Starting in January, she is responsible for transferring $1600 out of her business account into our checking account to cover the mortgage on the 1st of every month. My earnings will take care of our other living expenses of $2000+, so I'm still pulling more than half the weight. Besides, the $19,200 annually is largely tax deductible as mortgage interest whereas I only net ~60% of my paycheck and have to basically earn double to take care of my end of this bargain. For the next 3 months, no shopping for clothes, shoes, etc. Just the basics. We're establishing a budget for her "going out with friends" so if she really hates cleaning the house, she can use those funds to pay for a maid versus alcohol (or now bubbly water/juice/etc since she's taking a break from alcohol). She has approached me several times about going to Phoenix, Cancun, Vegas, etc for $2000 seminars on "event planning" and I told her she's a fool if she thinks it's anything but a reason to take a trip and party. If she wants to be successful, she needs to change her mentality from "what tools do I need to do what I want" versus "what can I do with the tools I have". She was ready to book a $2000 trip to Cancun for an event planning seminar, but wanted to skip out on a local bridal show that cost $400 (and brings in business) because she felt she didn't have enough time to put things together (even though she's had months of lead time and just waited until the last minute). She hasn't read a single self-improvement book on how to be a better event planner, even though I have a slew of professional development books already at home and she hasn't taken the initiative to read them and/or order her own off Amazon. Her return on reading a $20 book is way better than any return she'd see off a $2000 seminar in Cancun, which she agreed with.

4. Dogs in the bed. No longer happening, period. If she wants to have dogs in the bed, she can find me sleeping on the couch.

5. Sex. She has said she's the only one that can fix this and I just have to wait. She's done acupuncture, herbal teas, etc. I told her hopefully all of these changes and me putting my foot down makes her respect me more as a man and she'll be interested in getting physical. She said that she finds me very physically attractive (I work out and am very fit), but we'll see if that happens...

6. Time. She needs to step up and pull more weight in terms of time consuming tasks. She needs to take some of the burden off of me so I have more free time. I did the math and I essentially have 3 hours/day of time I don't have obligations to fulfill with work/school/etc. She complains we don't go out and do anything, but when I'm spending those 3 hours doing dishes, cooking dinner, etc. when am I supposed to have time/energy to go out to do things with her?

7. The office. We have a 2000 square foot home and my desk with my desktop computer is officially my sanctuary. She is free to use my computer (as she does regularly for work since it has a larger monitor than her netbook), but she needs to return my sanctuary to the state she found it when she's done. This 15 square feet is officially my space now and if she leaves clutter (papers, files, magazines) in my sanctuary as she has historically, it's going straight into the trashcan. If she has a million dollar check from a client to cash, she will have the luxury of picking through the trash to find it if it's left in my sanctuary.

As it stands now, I consider this a success story. I found the resources on this site and the feedback invaluable to my marriage--I wish I found it sooner. I'm definitely going to be sticking around to sharpen my saw to make my marriage better with the articles etc. Thank you all for taking the time to respond and I'll keep you posted on my/our progress.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hope it goes well.

Have you defined consequences or actions for if she disregards the requests you laid out?

You don't necessarily need to make them clear to her, but you had best be clear yourself about what happens if she backslides or reverts to the old behavior.

Would advise that you encourage her by recognizing the positive steps she is taking if you see changes, versus continuously maintaining an atmosphere where she feels like she is under a microscope, and if she slips up, the whole enterprise crashes and burns.

Stop talking about it. You have laid it out. If the expectations aren't clear for the both of you (yes, you should have some expectations for contributing to the progress of your relationship rather than allowing yourself to be cast as it's overseer)

Make time to be together. That's on both of you.

Expect challenges. And don't engage over them.
Bottom line; you can always ask her:
"Do you want to foster a healthy, happy, relationship for the both of us, or not?"
It's about the marriage. It isn't about how big of an a$$hole you are. Keep your focus on the outcome rather than the outbursts.

Best of luck.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

OK, this is really MY issue, and sorry to keep trying to push it on you, but I just find it interesting that you haven't mentioned anything about the type of drinking she does.



wafer said:


> I recalled an event where she called me to pick her up at a club ...


How often can she be found in a club drinking with "her friend"? Is it always the same friend? Does she meet other people while she's out? Does she meet men? How does she react when they hit on her? She turns them down but continues to party with them all night? Does she dance with men she's just met? You know, the ones that want her for sex? Slow dances? Does she grind? Does she ever meet the same men while out on different nights? Does she ever tell you the details of what she does at the clubs? Who she meets and parties with?

I find that there are two types of clubbers: The ones that have full disclosure to their husbands about where they went, what they did, who they danced with, and when they'll be home. Then there are the ones that are a little more secretive and sneaky. Which type is your wife?

You know they call these places meat markets for a reason, right? And she likes to put herself in this situation?




wafer said:


> She has approached me several times about going to Phoenix, Cancun, Vegas, etc for $2000 seminars on "event planning" and I told her she's a fool if she thinks it's anything but a reason to take a trip and party. If she wants to be successful, she needs to change her mentality from "what tools do I need to do what I want" versus "what can I do with the tools I have". She was ready to book a $2000 trip to Cancun for an event planning seminar, but wanted to skip out on a local bridal show that cost $400 (and brings in business)


Again, wrong conclusion. You said she wants to go to these exotic places to drink. She can drink in her kitchen. She needs to go to Cancun for a sexually charged atmosphere with her husband 8 hours away. To party with other people who are there for the same reason. She wants to bask in the attention of men who want to screw her and you're showing her profit and loss statements.


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## lht285 (Aug 25, 2011)

MrK said:


> OK, this is really MY issue, and sorry to keep trying to push it on you, but I just find it interesting that you haven't mentioned anything about the type of drinking she does.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure that you can put any cheating in here, even though a lot of problems in this forum relate to cheating. I see a depressed disorganized woman who has dreams but has not set a path to achieving them. Wafer is setting her on the right path, and I think he will see some positive results from it. I agree that the after hours drinking is inappropriate, unprofessional, and destructive, not only to her, but to her business as well. 

I think you need to make sure that you get her on the path by taking small positive steps to improve. Trying to get someone to make massive changes in their life in one fell swoop will only lead to misery, so work on small things first. 

When it comes to the sex thing my mother actually had some good advice for me. If things are not working well in the bedroom you should start by working on the foreplay. Do the foreplay, get them worked up, then stop! Make sure you let them know this is going to be the way to work up some excitement first. Do this for a week or so, never culminating and do it every night, then work your way back into some great times.

Your wife may not actually be suited for her profession. If she is this way around alcohol, party planning and being at parties can be a VERY bad thing for her. She should NEVER mix business with pleasure. 

Hopefully she wants to make positive changes because you can't force her. Good luck!!


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## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

It sounds like you did a great job of handling this situation and making it clear what she can do to improve things. I think going forward you need to keep a close eye on her drinking. You also need to make sure that her improvements aren't short-term, that's the classic problem in situations like this. She will make changes, things will get better, and then time passes and you suddenly realize things have drifted back to how they were. If you have some kind of calendaring program, set up a reminder for 3 months from now telling you to come back and re-read this thread. It will give you an opportunity to re-connect with your current self and better gauge the progress she has made. 

Also, I still think you need to keep your eyes open to her potentially being unfaithful. Her behavior merits genuine suspicion.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Wafer---let me tell you one thing, as to alcohol----cuz your wife and your friends, all seem to be pretty much heavy drinkers----

If you have a party, and you allow someone to drink, and not even to excess, just drink, and they go out and have an accident, and hurt/maim/kill someone---guess who is responsible

That's right---YOU

If you don't believe me check your state's code sections.

You could lose your house, and everything else you have---be careful how much boozing you allow at your place------also you need to make sure your wife, thru her work, what have you, never puts herself in a position of responsibility for someone else drinking


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks all for the feedback/comments.

As for the drinking/responsibility item, we have lots of insurance, including an umbrella policy and my wife has liability insurance for her business to protect our personal assets. This doesn't mean we're absolved of any responsibility, but we do make it a point to make sure people who aren't fit to drive aren't driving when we have parties at our house--our next door neighbor is a cop and has a breathalyzer that we've even used before. Also, my friends are not heavy drinkers--her friends are.

As far as the dancing/clubbing, she does give full disclosure. She wears her big fat wedding ring when she goes out and when she does go out, it's with a group of her girlfriends who are mostly married as well. She has fathers at weddings that ask for her to dance with their son to get them out of their shell and on the dance floor, but that's pretty much the extent of her "dancing with other men". She is always asking me to go out to the club dancing with her, but I typically stay at home because I don't get that much enjoyment in going to the club and I'm usually (historically) exhausted from working hard all week to stay out past 11pm.

I have zero concern about her cheating for a long list of reasons that I don't have time to post here. It's not a denial thing either--I can say with certainty she isn't fooling around.

I do think my wife has dreams and aspirations, but has no idea how to get there because she can't get out of her own way. Part of the wedding planning is that her mom is doing floral work for some of the weddings as another revenue stream to take advantage of (her mom is an interior designer). In short, her mother is bat**** crazy and has a ridiculous perception as to how the world works (she way way far left politically, which is ironic considering she literally escaped Hilter's Germany). As a result, she's dealt with a lot of stress and complications, even though I've been a broken record about how she shouldn't do business with family. Her mom is still doing floral, but the profit/return is nominal at best and in my opinion, not worth it.

My wife approached me about the drinking thing yesterday and refraining from drinking unless I'm with her the next 3 months. She said it's difficult and awkward to goto a networking event and not have a drink because "everyone is doing it." I asked her if someone approached her with a non-alcoholic beverage if she would choose not to business with them. She said no. I believe it's all in her mind--no one cares what you're drinking. I did some reflecting on the issue and I'm holding firm. You goto a networking event to network, not drink. Likewise, you goto a bar to drink, not network.

As far as small steps to help nudge her onto the right path, I'm there. She was upset when I confronted her about these issues, but the bottom line is if I don't push her to be a better person, who will? She doesn't have the drive/focus/control to do it herself, which she can't refute.

Personally, I'm reviewing my NUTs every day. I have in the past been compromising to make her happy. The big thing I've been working on is being decisive and not doing things just because she wants to and I want to make her happy. Dogs have been staying off the bed, which was actually a blessing since one of them threw up last night in the middle of the night. Everything has been working out smashingly so far. We haven't had sex yet, but I think once the dust settles, our sex life should improve greatly. Part of the reason we didn't have sex is because she always wanted to watch TV at night and would end up tired around 10:30p and go straight to bed. I'd always want to goto bed earlier, but she always wanted to watch "1 more show" and I've always hung around. She always wants to hang out with me and watch TV (versus me being on the computer alone, etc), so I told her I'm going to bed (not to sleep, but in bed reading, on the laptop, etc) by 9:30 every night from now on. She has started going to bed with me at 9:30 and this morning she actually woke up before me and was showered, dressed, and ready to walk out the door before I was ready for work for the first time in probably a year.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

wafer said:


> I have in the past been compromising to make her happy. The big thing I've been working on is being decisive and not doing things just because she wants to and I want to make her happy.


In my kitchen, I have a quote hanging that says "Happiness is a choice, not chance".

You know, you cannot MAKE someone else happy. You can maybe make things easier in their life, but it still is really up to THEM to be happy ... or not.

"_Most folks are as happy as *they* make up their minds to be." ~ Abraham Lincoln_

God Bless.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

wafer said:


> She needs a lot of verbal affirmation that she is doing a good job and she feels she's just been getting a lot of letters about how ****ty she is lately (she has a client that wants to sue her, too).


This may be a big clue as to one of the things that she needs from you - verbal affirmation.

If you're not familiar with the "5 Love Languages", you might want to take a spin at looking at that. It can help identify what each of you needs from the other to feel loved. So, if your wife needs word of affirmation from you, but you are always trying to help out and do chores, then essentially her needs haven't been met.

There's a nifty little web-site that you can both take a quick test on to find out what your love languages are.

The 5 Love Languages | The 5 Love Languages®

There's also a great book.

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Languages-Secret-That-Lasts/dp/0802473156/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320255485&sr=8-1

Just wanting to make sure that you will contemplate not only what kinds of things you want/need from your marriage and what you can do and what you expect from your wife, but what do you think she needs from you and your marriage? Maybe there are some things missing there that need to be addressed.




wafer said:


> 5. Sex. She has said she's the only one that can fix this and I just have to wait. She's done acupuncture, herbal teas, etc. I told her hopefully all of these changes and me putting my foot down makes her respect me more as a man and she'll be interested in getting physical. She said that she finds me very physically attractive (I work out and am very fit), but we'll see if that happens...


I wanted to comment on this one. I could be wrong, but for many women they need to have an emotional connection and an emotional spark in order to want to connect sexually with their man. Do you think you are meeting her emotional needs for that connection - for conversation, for non-sexual touching, for flirting?

The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage? by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Just some thoughts.

Best wishes.


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> This may be a big clue as to one of the things that she needs from you - verbal affirmation.
> 
> If you're not familiar with the "5 Love Languages", you might want to take a spin at looking at that. It can help identify what each of you needs from the other to feel loved. So, if your wife needs word of affirmation from you, but you are always trying to help out and do chores, then essentially her needs haven't been met.


My wife and I have both read this book before we got married. She is verbal affirmation and I am acts of service.



> I wanted to comment on this one. I could be wrong, but for many women they need to have an emotional connection and an emotional spark in order to want to connect sexually with their man. Do you think you are meeting her emotional needs for that connection - for conversation, for non-sexual touching, for flirting?


I do feel I am meeting her emotional needs. She has said she has her hierarchy of needs (Maslow) to not feel the stress and anxiety that she experiences (that consequently makes her not in the mood). Her biggest concern is financial security and being able to go out and shop and do whatever she wants. I confronted her about this--I have not once made a big deal about her making way less money than me. I volunteered to step up to the plate to work longer and harder to make enough money to meet our needs so she can pursue her dreams of being self-employed. Even after all my "demands" I've told her the shopping/alcohol/etc issues aren't about money, it's about her. I can go out an make more money. I'm not scared of hard work. I'll get a second job at McDonalds, shovel ****, I don't care--I will make enough money to take care of me and my wife. Her biggest fear is going back to work for someone other than herself and having to "put in for vacation", work someone else's schedule/hours, etc. Thus, we come full circle with her not being setup for success (organized) and feeling overwhelmed and therefore stressed/anxious and therefore not in the mood. I think I hit home when I differentiated between her being overwhelmed being a symptom versus the problem.

I do struggle with the verbal affirmation bit. I do not need verbal affirmation. I eat **** sandwiches everyday at work for a living and have a thankless job (at least from the outside--the people I work for/with are great). I am psychologically tough and if someone tells me I'm a piece of ****--I don't take it personally because I am confident in who I am and I know I'm a good person. My wife? Not so much. She gets very emotionally invested with her brides/clients/etc and when something goes wrong or at least not as planned with work, it ruins her day. She acknowledges this is a problem and has been working on it. She is overly empathetic and I'm overly objective and lack compassion. This largely goes back to how we were both raised. I was raised to be an individual and that no one is coming to save the day. She was raised in a very nurturing environment where groups of people and making communities/society a better place is the most important thing.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Hey, wafer. I've been following your thread. I just wanted to ask you if you feel your wife depends on alcohol a bit too much to relieve her stress/anxiety. I'm not saying she has a drinking problem, but my antennae are always up when I "see" certain behaviors. That comes from being married to an alcoholic.

I'm certainly not implying she is an addict, but does she have other constructive avenues she can use to reduce stress? Shopping sounds like it is one, but c'mon ... that's not particularly constructive, given what seems to be her "binge" shopping.

Does she work out? Belong to a gym? Jog in her spare time? It doesn't sound like it from what you have posted.

I once tried to drink with my alcoholic husband, and all I got from it was sick. I am an occasional social drinker, and have no problem drinking non-alcoholic beverages at functions. Frankly, I question why people feel they need to get plastered at wedding receptions, but it's their choice. It sounds like she thinks not drinking alcohol at a wedding or planning event is somewhat unusual. I frequently go to functions and don't drink. Given that, do you feel she may be relying a bit too much on booze? Just concerned ...


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## wafer (Oct 31, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> Hey, wafer. I've been following your thread. I just wanted to ask you if you feel your wife depends on alcohol a bit too much to relieve her stress/anxiety. I'm not saying she has a drinking problem, but my antennae are always up when I "see" certain behaviors. That comes from being married to an alcoholic.
> 
> I'm certainly not implying she is an addict, but does she have other constructive avenues she can use to reduce stress? Shopping sounds like it is one, but c'mon ... that's not particularly constructive, given what seems to be her "binge" shopping.
> 
> ...


I do feel she relies on alcohol too much, which is why she's not drinking the next 3 months unless I'm with her. She is more of your classic binge drinking college kid versus your seasoned alcoholic with an emergency stash for Sundays when the liquor store is closed.

My wife and I both belong to a gym that our neighbor actually owns, so we have a deeply discounted rate. I goto the gym 3 times a week and power lift. As I mentioned, I work for a great company that takes care of me. We actually have a gym at work and the owner's son is a personal trainer (and our company is self-insured), so she actually has personal training 5x a week and works out M-F for an hour each morning. We run races together and run a 10k every Thanksgiving.

Personally, I'm an occasional social drinker as well, but probably moreso than you. I'll have a beer or a glass of wine with dinner a couple times a week. I'll have more than one on the weekend probably once a month. I go for quality over quantity. I'd much rather enjoy a few Drambuie on the rocks versus a whole box of wine.

The ultimate irony is her crazy mother I referenced raised her on organic everything and never drank in front of her. That kind of backfired as the first thing she did when she left home was eat a whole box of lucky charms and now binge drinks. On the flip-side, I was raised where I was allowed to have a glass of wine with dinner when I was 12, have memories of trying dad's beer at 4, etc. but my parents never abused alcohol and always drank in moderation.

Hopefully the changes I'm "forcing" on her will get her organized, lower her stress, and everything else will follow.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

wafer said:


> I do feel she relies on alcohol too much, which is why she's not drinking the next 3 months unless I'm with her. She is more of your classic binge drinking college kid versus your seasoned alcoholic with an emergency stash for Sundays when the liquor store is closed.


Please keep us posted on this to let us know that she is upholding her end of the bargain. I realize I bring my personal bias to this particular issue, but I recall my husband "abstaining" and I suddenly realized he had been drinking. I didn't go looking for a stash, but I was fully aware that he was under the influence. He wasn't drunk, but I could definitely tell he had a buzz. I had made it clear drinking was off limits. Still, somehow/someway he managed to have a few drinks. And his drinking started out as the classic binge drinker during his frat house days. Unfortunately, it progressed to full-blown alcoholism. 

I sincerely hope your wife is good to her word and doesn't sneak a few drinks when she is out with her gf's. BTW, my husband ran marathons, and ran (on average) 50-60 miles per week. Still, he drank. Personally, I never understood it.:scratchhead:


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