# Wife had affair with her boss



## MenDontCry

So on Oct 17th 2017 I discovered that my wife had been having a 6 month long affair with her boss. On the 17th I thought it was just an emotional affair but on the night of Oct 20th we got into a huge argument and she didn't come home that night. This was the first time anything like that had ever happened. She lied to me and tole me that she just needed to get away and that she slept in her car in a park all night. On Oct 24th she confessed that she had gone to her bosses house and that they slept together. 
I'm sure the flirting started earlier but the sexting and sexual based messages started in May of 2017. Long story short they got very close after May 2017 and were together physically three times. Once in a parking lot and twice at his apartment. This was her first job after taking time off to finish her degree and to have our twins. Her job is very male dominated and she is either surrounded by men while at work or isolated in a vehicle. I think this dynamic helped to lead to what ultimately happened.
I am a war veteran with undiagnosed PTSD and depression issues. The month that this all started with my wife I lost my mother and my dog of 15 years. I became a total recluse (I from home 50% of the time and I am on the road for work the other 50% of the time) and rarely left our home. We have a 25 year old (my step-daughter) and a set of boy-girl 5y/o twins. My in-laws live with us in an in-law suite to help us take care of the kids and to assist them with their finances. I absolutely can't stand them so I arranged my work hours to start work around 10-11am and I would stay up until 2-3am to have the house completely by myself. During this time my wife had to wake up at 4am to head to work which resulted in us rarely seeing each other. To make matters worst this happened right after my wife had a major health scare and lost a lot her her muscle mass and gained a bit of weight. 
In hindsight I was severely depressed and needed my wife to help me get out of it. I now also realize that my wife was severely depressed and took the symptoms of my depression and PTSD to be signs that I no longer was in love with her. An example of this is that I would start work at 11am but not shower or do any personal hygiene until 6 or 7 at night. My wife would come home and I would give her a very unpassionate kiss and she took it to mean that I didn't want her. I was just embarrassed that I hadn't handled any daily hygiene yet and I didn't want to be in her face.
Before this discovery I trusted my wife fully and I thought we were a model couple. I didn't recognize the signs that she was depressed, that she was cheating and I didn't recognize that I was depressed. I have beat myself up a bit about being so trusting but I have come to the conclusion that I did exactly what I was supposed to do. I trusted my wife as husbands are supposed to do.
There's hordes more that I could add but the above is the gist of it.

Now heres the issue. Since my discovery of her affair and her subsequent admission she has honestly done everything right. We've gone to counseling, she's talked about her issues. She's admitted her faults and accepted full responsibility of what happened. She understands that she should have talked to me about what was going on in her life instead of trying to feel better about her self and finding consolation in another mans arms. With all of that said I am a man at the end of the day and the thought of my beautiful wife bedding another man and doing the things that she has admitted that she did with him are tearing me up. I'm willing to work on us and she is doing everything to help me trust her again and feel in-love with her again but I really don't know how to recover from the betrayal. I don't know how to get the images out of my head. I don't know how to move forward without animosity. I don't know how to not think about her and him when I see her bent over getting something out of the stove, etc.. 

If anyone needs more info in order to have a better idea of the whole situation I am ready to share.

Please help!!!


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## Bananapeel

Oftentimes an affair signals the end of a relationship. So, while you might be able to reestablish some form of a marriage with her, you might not. The most honest thing you can do is decide for yourself whether this is a deal breaker and if it is then just end things ASAP. If it's not, then you both need to focus 100% of fixing your relationship and making sure the counselor you have can help you learn to deal with it.


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## purplesunsets

Have you heard of Esther Perel? She has a lot of resources (books, podcasts, audio books) on infidelity. She's very knowledgeable on the subject. It might help you both gain insight into her infidelity.


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## MenDontCry

Bananapeel said:


> Oftentimes an affair signals the end of a relationship. So, while you might be able to reestablish some form of a marriage with her, you might not. The most honest thing you can do is decide for yourself whether this is a deal breaker and if it is then just end things ASAP. If it's not, then you both need to focus 100% of fixing your relationship and making sure the counselor you have can help you learn to deal with it.


Through counseling she has admitted that she thought the relationship was already over. She thought I as no-longer in love with her and that I wanted a divorce. She has admitted in counseling that she took the cowards way out and had an affair. Part of her reasoning was to help Shield herself from the hurt and pain of me wanting to leave. (I never wanted to leave. I have always love her). 
Her father committed suicide after not claiming her for 18 years, and her step-father left them and was abusive. Prior to my relationship with her was was also assaulted while in the army and her relationship that she was in prior to me was an emotional and physically abusive one.
She has said that she wants us to last and that her intention is to repair our marriage. I believe her and that's what I want too, but I have no clue how to let her back in.


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## MenDontCry

purplesunsets said:


> Have you heard of Esther Perel? She has a lot of resources (books, podcasts, audio books) on infidelity. She's very knowledgeable on the subject. It might help you both gain insight into her infidelity.


I just listened to one of her TED talks where she broke things down in terms of biological evolution. It was comforting on some levels and scary on others.


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## Taxman

As many wise people on this site have said, the old marriage is dead and gone. Whether or not you can raise a new marriage on the ashes of the old one is up to you. First, I always say that the wayward spouse needs consequences. The one that I see most often is a separation. The last few, the wayward spouse was told that if they continued, the marriage was over. The betrayed spouse in a few of those scenarios has gone back to being single. They aren't exactly revenge affairs, but the betrayed spouse in two of these immediately started going out on dates, and were not exactly hermits. One gentleman, was using a "point system" which I thoroughly discouraged, essentially, every time his wife had slept with the OM, it was assigned three points. The gentleman stated to his WW that each NEW woman he sleeps with, is worth 1 point. She slept with her OM, about ten times, he is going to have sex with 30 women. He is in the twenties last time I looked. She is scared to death to say anything. He holds a lot of cards in this, inclusive of her losing all of her family. She is sucking it up. She is living for the eventual reconciliation, and she has lost a lot already. The OM was a smooth talker, and on DD, she discovered that she was merely a piece of ass. He had three others he was doing along with his wife. OM was a power broker, now he is unemployed, and separated. A lady in a similar position, revenge is mostly financial, she is draining his assets, and I believe that when she is ready, this will be a nuclear explosion. She is driving her WH crazy. She goes out and does not tell him what she is up to, all he knows is that at some time in the near future, she will give him a decision. Whether or not she leaves him one red cent is entirely academic at this point.

Give your wife consequences, she has to know what she is going to lose due to her behavior.


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## As'laDain

MenDontCry said:


> Through counseling she has admitted that she thought the relationship was already over. She thought I as no-longer in love with her and that I wanted a divorce. She has admitted in counseling that she took the cowards way out and had an affair. Part of her reasoning was to help Shield herself from the hurt and pain of me wanting to leave. (I never wanted to leave. I have always love her).
> Her father committed suicide after not claiming her for 18 years, and her step-father left them and was abusive. Prior to my relationship with her was was also assaulted while in the army and her relationship that she was in prior to me was an emotional and physically abusive one.
> She has said that she wants us to last and that her intention is to repair our marriage. I believe her and that's what I want too, but I have no clue how to let her back in.


from one war veteran to another, these kinds of things dont just go away because you want them to. you can get better and better at changing the way you think, but you HAVE to accept that it is not only ok, but entirely necessary for you to feel what you feel, and process it like you process everything else. you will have to accept how terrible it feels. you will have to accept that there is nothing wrong with you for feeling the way you feel. even if your wife suddenly wakes up one morning doing everything right, it is STILL ok for you to feel what you feel. 

not just ok... the only way to get passed it is to let yourself feel it and accept it, so that you can move forward from there. it is hard to describe, but you probably already have an idea of what i am talking about...

if you can live _through_ the triggers and work forward from that place of agony, then you will know exactly what i am talking about. when we go through something traumatic, most of us will at some point realize that we will be ok. it comes directly after accepting the emotions instead of trying to fight them. 

i hope this makes sense...


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## GusPolinski

MenDontCry said:


> I just listened to one of her TED talks where she broke things down in terms of biological evolution. It was comforting on some levels and scary on others.


First lesson — those so dispossessed of any meaningful character that they’d echo the worst traits of our primordial selves in their daily lives are all the more likely to do it over and over and over again. 

Throw in an abusive childhood, daddy issues, and past sexual trauma on top of that, and you get a recipe for something that is the exact opposite of fidelity.

Also, she’s lying — it was way more than 3 times.

She quit her job yet?


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## jlg07

The idea that it's YOUR fault because she thought you didn't lover her anymore is BS. She is still blaming YOU when in reality her affair is 100% on her. If she felt the marriage was over, then she should have discussed divorce with you. If she felt that you didn't love her or had other issues SHE SHOULD HAVE talked with you about it.

She should leave that job, and you MAY have a case against the company for morals clause/sexual harassment case.

VERY sorry you are going through this.


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## MenDontCry

GusPolinski said:


> First lesson — those so dispossessed of any meaningful character that they’d echo the worst traits of our primordial selves in their daily lives are all the more likely to do it over and over and over again.
> 
> Throw in an abusive childhood, daddy issues, and past sexual trauma on top of that, and you get a recipe for something that is the exact opposite of fidelity.
> 
> Also, she’s lying — it was way more than 3 times.
> 
> She quit her job yet?


So there's the rub. Part of me says that it "could" happen again and part of me thinks that she learned her lesson. And as far as 3 times or not. Yea. I know she's lying about that. No-one EVER tells the truth. She says 3 so I'm putting it at 6. In a counseling session one of the things mentioned was that what she said to him wasn't the truth because she wanted him to like her and what she is telling me isn't 100% the truth. 3, 6, 10, it doesn't really matter. They slept together. 

And yes. She quit her job. Kinda. She went to work for one day after D-Day then she took 2 weeks off. The following week I had to go to Hawaii for a work trip for 2 weeks and she flew out with me. When we returned she got promoted/transferred to another site and she hasn't been back to the old site since. 

Another interesting part of this is that she has admitted to being the instigator and the one who pushed for things to progress. She also admitted to using him to get her promotion.

Coincidentally, I'm not allowed at her old job. The day after I found our that she was having an affair but before I knew they were sleeping together I went to their work to "talk" to him. Lucky for him (maybe for me because I still have a clean record with no assault charges) he arrived to work late that day.


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## Txquail

Have your wife call her OM wife and have her confess to the affair with you on the line or speaker phone. Yes it will be hard for her, yes she will be embarrassed about it. But it will also remind her in the future what she'll have to do if she does this again.

Also have her draft a letter to her HR department and expose the affair to her employer. This will stop OM from abusing his power to get women in bed. He used the promotion for sex.

Have a NC letter sent to OM.

She must give you access to her phone, social media, emails etc.


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## purplesunsets

MenDontCry said:


> I just listened to one of her TED talks where she broke things down in terms of biological evolution. It was comforting on some levels and scary on others.


That's good! She has a podcast too. When I'm faced with an issue, I like to immerse myself in knowledge. I find it helps gain some insight.

When I found out my husband kissed another woman when we were dating, I was heart-broken. I wanted to keep talking about it to find out all the details but if you read my other posts, my husband does not open up at all. I think that the silence in this case helped us rebuild our relationship because we couldn't keep going around in circles trying to find out why...because there really isn't a clear, concise, and easily packaged answer. Relationships are messy. Humans are messy. Monogamy sometimes feels unnatural and has often been proven to be unnatural for humans. There really aren't answers out there that will help you feel better. But, there is the hope that you can rebuild trust... I haven't questioned my husband's loyalty in many years. I don't doubt that he's faithful and I trust in him more than any man I've been with. So it IS possible to get the trust back with time, patience, and two people who are willing to build the trust back.


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## toblerone

She can't work there anymore. Is the boss married? His wife should know too. Blow it all up.


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## MenDontCry

jlg07 said:


> The idea that it's YOUR fault because she thought you didn't lover her anymore is BS. She is still blaming YOU when in reality her affair is 100% on her. If she felt the marriage was over, then she should have discussed divorce with you. If she felt that you didn't love her or had other issues SHE SHOULD HAVE talked with you about it.
> 
> She should leave that job, and you MAY have a case against the company for morals clause/sexual harassment case.
> 
> VERY sorry you are going through this.



She has admitted that she handled it wrong. She was just explain her frame of mind at the time. When she tells me how she wishes she had handled it I believe her, I just can't for the life of me understand how she would be willing to screw me over so bad. I am the one person in her life (to include her parents) who has never left or abandoned her and who has always been a supporter of her.

As far as the HR thing, I did contact HR but the OM kept texts and messages between them. He was definitely inappropriate but my wife was the instigator. My first thought after deciding not to beat his ass was to get him fired, but my wife actually landed a very lucrative position nearly doubling her pay and I didn't want there to be any blowback on her. It pisses me off that he seems to be getting off Scott free though.


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## MenDontCry

toblerone said:


> She can't work there anymore. Is the boss married? His wife should know too. Blow it all up.


She only worked there one more day after I discovered it all. And the boss is 2X divorced. Even after all of this time I still feel like I should confront him though. There should be consequences. While he is not the one that broke vows to me, he definitely knew she was married.


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## Txquail

Slap him with a lawsuit over all the marriage legal bills and therapy


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## GusPolinski

She needs to quit the job. Transfer isn’t good enough. For all you know, they’re still communicating via company email and banging on lunch breaks.

She needs to go 100% no contact with this guy, which means shutting down any possible avenues for even casual, unplanned contact. Can’t really do that for as long as they’re working for the same company.

Also, a 6-month affair? You can bet there was sex _at least_ once a week — WAY more than 3 or 6 times.

Also, if the guy is married or has a girlfriend, expose the affair.


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## Bananapeel

You never really answered my question. You answered what she wants, but you need to be upfront with what YOU really want and whether YOU think you can ever get past this. When a wife has an affair you need to redirect your thinking and advocate for yourself and not for her because you are no longer a team, at least not before all the damage is repaired. So again, can you sit down and decide YOUR life direction? If you had to pick a partner knowing what you now know about her, would she be your ideal mate? Is a cheating woman, that lies to you when caught, used sex with her boss to get a promotion, and that has a history of abuse in her past the best woman you think you can get? Are you satisfied with someone like that? I'm not judging you here, just questioning your choices so that you understand what you are potentially signing on for. If the answer to those questions is yes and you still want to be married to her, then go for it. But if the answers are no, then you'll never be able to move past her infidelity because every time you look at her you'll be letting yourself down and knowing that you settled for less than you should have.


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## MenDontCry

GusPolinski said:


> She needs to quit the job. Transfer isn’t good enough. For all you know, they’re still communicating via company email and banging on lunch breaks.
> 
> She needs to go 100% no contact with this guy, which means shutting down any possible avenues for even casual, unplanned contact. Can’t really do that for as long as they’re working for the same company.
> 
> Also, a 6-month affair? You can bet there was sex _at least_ once a week — WAY more than 3 or 6 times.
> 
> Also, if the guy is married or has a girlfriend, expose the affair.



Yea, the one thing I can't guarantee is that they are using company email and phones to communicate. As far as the more than 3 or 6 times it honestly doesn't matter. Having sex even one time with someone that you aren't married to is wrong, so 3, 6, 10, 100 its all the same to me. BUT with that being said, I got access to her emails and texts and was able to confirm the first time they were together. It was September 1, 2017. She left early for work that day and they were together in a park parking lot. The 2nd time was October 3, 2017. I was out of town on a work trip and she said she had to "work late" on that day. And the third time was Oct 20, 2017 and thats when she left our house during an argument and spend the night with him. I'm sure that Sep 1, 2017 was the first time and I know that they kissed first on August 25 2017 and they pretty much made out every morning until D-day. If there were times in between those dates that I don't know about then that's fine. At this point it really doesn't change anything.


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## Txquail

Wife need to quit today or get a divorse


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## jlg07

MenDontCry said:


> She has admitted that she handled it wrong. She was just explain her frame of mind at the time. When she tells me how she wishes she had handled it I believe her, I just can't for the life of me understand how she would be willing to screw me over so bad. I am the one person in her life (to include her parents) who has never left or abandoned her and who has always been a supporter of her.
> 
> As far as the HR thing, I did contact HR but the OM kept texts and messages between them. He was definitely inappropriate but my wife was the instigator. My first thought after deciding not to beat his ass was to get him fired, but my wife actually landed a very lucrative position nearly doubling her pay and I didn't want there to be any blowback on her. It pisses me off that he seems to be getting off Scott free though.


HER pursuing him means nothing -- in all of the Sexual misconduct trainging I've been in, HE IS HER BOSS. It is on HIM on how he handles the situation, not her, so YES you can contact HR about this. How would contacting HR about her at that company hurt her moving to a new job/diff company? Not sure I understand that one...

IS he still married or dating? If so try to get her contact info and out him.


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## MenDontCry

The two sites are 40 miles apart. She has her google and apple GPS locations shared with me, and I can see where her car is at all times with on-star. I also do pop-up lunch and "just to say hi" visits.


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## MenDontCry

jlg07 said:


> HER pursuing him means nothing -- in all of the Sexual misconduct trainging I've been in, HE IS HER BOSS. It is on HIM on how he handles the situation, not her, so YES you can contact HR about this. How would contacting HR about her at that company hurt her moving to a new job/diff company? Not sure I understand that one...
> 
> IS he still married or dating? If so try to get her contact info and out him.


I agree 100%. In the army the subordinate doesn't get in trouble for a sexual based relationship. But I've only ever been in government jobs. I wasn't sure how corporate America worked. I didn't want this tarnishing her at her new site. I figured that no matter how this all turned out I would be better off is she makes more money. Whether we are together or divorced my life is better with her making more money.

No he isn't married nor is/was he dating. He is 2x divorced and was dating when he and my wife first started sexting but they broke up and he got his own apartment in October. He was single as of October and neither she nor I have spoken to him since.


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## SunCMars

You had/have PTSD. You were impossible to live with. 

She misread you, fell for a POSOM. 

She has admitted her affair, her sexual liaisons. She no longer works with him.

Now she wants forgiveness. If you love her and you can become a better partner, I would give her another chance.

I am not asking you to rug sweep this affair of hers. I am 'suggesting' that you give her another chance. If you still love her.

Tell her that you are giving her another chance, not because she deserves it, tell her she doesn't. Tell her you are going this route because your' heart demands it.

However, remind her that your' brain can over ride your heart if she proves unworthy in the future.

My decision here is a 'judgement' call, more than a logical deliberation. 
One of intuition, less so of rationality. 
A decision outside of my normal response, one suggesting divorce.

And she must be monitored for life.


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## OutofRetirement

You said she's doing everything right but you think she's lying about sex 3 times.

So are you saying her lying is the right thing?


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## Txquail

MenDontCry said:


> The two sites are 40 miles apart. She has her google and apple GPS locations shared with me, and I can see where her car is at all times with on-star. I also do pop-up lunch and "just to say hi" visits.


Doesnt matter. Company emails, instant messenger, company phones, meetings, etc. He can drive to her building and you wont know. Parkinglot sex arranged on company communications. She did that already.

Make her quit today. If she complains, its part of ending affair.


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## jlg07

You can have her write out a timeline, and ask her to take a polygraph test. May prove to you with clarity exactly what went on to see if you can get past it.


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## Evinrude58

I'm not saying you should divorce or not.

However:

I will say this. Your wife is a liar, and has continued to lie. 

YOU are taking 99% of the blame in your first post for your wife's utter betrayal of you in the worst way possible for a wife. That is NOT a mindset for successful reconciliation on YOUR part. I don't know about her's, but honestly, I think she is full of ****.

You are saying that SHE says x,y, z about how she's taking responsibility and she's remorseful and this and that. She is a CHEATER/LIAR. You should believe NOTHING she says about anything. If she said the sun was coming up in the East, I'd check the west just to verify.

I don't see ONE SINGLE thing that might come in the category of consequences for her. The other man can fall off a cliff. THis was on your wife. He didn't rape her. Yes, he should be turned in to HR if possible, just because he deserves some payback for the awful thing he did to you. But really, he owes you nothing in his mind, because he clearly has no conscience or character.

You are in a situation that is really tough. I personally think that once an affair happens, one needs to cut bait. The cheating spouse has proven their true feelings for you. Believe them. But, in all honesty, I wanted another chance at marriage with my cheating wife. And in all honesty, I didn't get it, and I'm happy about it. I'm marrying a good woman with no history of cheating and one that obviously has some character, this SUnday. It's been 4 years since my divorce. Divorce is not the end of your happiness if you don't let/want it to be. You can find a woman that WON'T cheat and make excuses.

JMO,
Good luck


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## OutofRetirement

She instigated it but he only wanted it 3 times?

She cheated because she was so broken up emotionally because she thought you didn't love her, but she was able to use him to get her a raise?

Her whole excuse sounds way off. 

Is other man a viable option?

Does she have other reasons to stay with you besides love?

She seems calculating.


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## StillSearching

MenDontCry said:


> The two sites are 40 miles apart. She has her google and apple GPS locations shared with me, and I can see where her car is at all times with on-star. I also do pop-up lunch and "just to say hi" visits.


I feel for you man, your marriage will NEVER be the same.
I hope you find peace in the next 5 years. It's gunna take that long.


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## BobSimmons

MenDontCry said:


> The two sites are 40 miles apart. She has her google and apple GPS locations shared with me, and I can see where her car is at all times with on-star. I also do pop-up lunch and "just to say hi" visits.


What part of they work at the same company don't you understand? I'm puzzled,so in essence she had a promotion, correct? So essentially she's a manager or something like that, meaning that as a higher up she'll most likely have more contact with other higher ups..like the bosses of the company? Promotion often means more direct contact with bosses not less.

You know where her car is but they could use company communications and to be fair..you don't know where his car is.

6 months is not a mistake. You are getting an easy ride because she hasn't been forced to quit her job.

But..you will know best. Proceed with caution and at your own peril.

R will be tough.


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## badmemory

MenDontCry said:


> Another interesting part of this is that she has admitted to being the instigator and the one who pushed for things to progress. She also admitted to *using him to get her promotion*.


It doesn't matter if she initiated or was a willing participant. What matters is that he was her *supervisor*; and this is a classic definition of Quid Pro Quo sexual harassment. She got a promotion in exchange for sexual favors and gets off the hook for not reporting it to HR. Not only will that get him fired, it will expose him and the company to a civil suit. Most likely the company would be willing to settle for a substantial amount.

Here's the way I would handle it. She quits that job, you and your wife gather the evidence needed, and she sues him and the company for sexual harassment. You shouldn't have a problem finding an attorney that will take the case. It's a no-brainer with decent evidence.

I wouldn't hesitate to nail the [email protected] and expect a chunk of change for your wife having to quit her job. And I would expect her to damn well cooperate if she wants to R.


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## MenDontCry

OutofRetirement said:


> You said she's doing everything right but you think she's lying about sex 3 times.
> 
> So are you saying her lying is the right thing?



I think she is lying about the number of times only because in my personal counseling sessions my counselor said to be wary of her downplaying details. The facts (which she didn't know I had) texts, and facebook conversations, confirm that they have only been together three times. She admitted to being with him three times without me telling her what I had. She has also answered ALL questions that I had. She didn't confess to everything initially. My thought is that its because her affair wasn't ended because she had an epiphany. It was ended because I saw signs and then started snooping once the signs got to be too much. I'd say it was about 45 days after the initial D-Day that we sat down after a counseling session and she laid everything out over the course of a 2 hour conversation. Then after that we talked another 2 hours or so with me just asking questions.


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## Txquail

Quid pro quo sexual harassment occurs when an individual's submission to or rejection of sexual advances or conduct of a sexual nature is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting the individual or the individual's submission to such conduct is made a term or condition of employment

You can nail him for sexual harrassment and sue

MAKE YOUR WIFE QUIT RIGHT NOW

Company emails, instant messenger, company phones, meetings, etc. He can drive to her building and you wont know. Parkinglot sex arranged on company communications. She did that already she might be doing it right now.


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## bandit.45

I don't understand how you think you can forgive her and move forwards unless you know what you are forgiving her for. She's lying like a turd in the sun. 

She only had sex with him 3 times? In six months? Really? C'mon. You sit her down and you tell her she has ONE last chance to come clean with you or reconciliation is off. Better yet, have her write a timeline of when the affair started and how many times they met to have sex, where and how. And by sex I mean not just intercourse. Blowjobs, hand-jobs, him going down on her, everything...it's all sex. 

How much money did she spend on her affair? Eating out, motels, lingerie.....find out and add it up. She owes you this money. 

Did she deny you sex while she was banging him? A hurdle if so. 

She actually went and slept with him AFTER she confirmed the affair? Really? You know how much disrespect that entails? How did she explain that away? 

Good luck brother. You are not anywhere near the solar orbit of planet of being ready to reconcile with this woman until you address the issues I've listed.


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## sokillme

The interesting thing about biological reasons is there are people who would not do it. There are people who had it worse off then your wife and would not cheat. In my mind, because of that it's not a biological reason but a reason of character or lack there of. There are any number of things in life that if we were to act out of biological reasons would get us into trouble. Not sure why betraying our spouse because of biological reasons has any more relevance then any other. There were any number of ways she could of dealt with this, she took the worst and most selfish one. I doubt you even know the full story. Life is hard and in a tough moment your wife abandoned you and her family to (as you seem to hint at) use her boss to get a promotion right out of school.



> Another interesting part of this is that she has admitted to being the instigator and the one who pushed for things to progress. She also admitted to using him to get her promotion.


This says a lot about who she is as a person. A husband who is suffering from his experience in war with PTSD, and just had kids. She decides to use her sexuality to promote her career. These are not little things when it comes to character.

You are right to question. What kind of person is this women? You know that when you are in a fight, which is what a lot of life is, if your partner in that fight is willing to through you under the bus when things get hard, then you are in for a hard life. 

The most important thing you should think about when you are decided what to do is what the quality of your life will be. Your wife need a big character overhaul, which means she need to put in tons of work. Is she up for it? People who make decisions like this are not a good risk. Don't minimize what she did or who she is, or at least do it at your own risk.

Let me put it to you this way, as far as a spouse, really how much benefit to your life is a women who trades sex for a promotion? Let's just be honest. Women in their lifetime will have thousands more opportunities to have sex outside of marriage then your average man, so it's imperative that you find one who understands what honor, commitment and loyalty means. Yours seems to have pursued this, in my mind that makes her dangerous to you.


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## dreamer2017

Dear MenDontCry,

You have received good advice; please adhere to it. She is lying to you, and I agree with Txquail, you should make her quit. You need to contact your attorney to pursue a lawsuit for sexual harassment. He was her supervisor and is responsible for the relationship. You got to stand up and smell the coffee. It is possible the relationship has gone underground. I also believe you should demand your wife write a no-contact letter to him and forward a copy to HR.

Dreamer


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## MenDontCry

bandit.45 said:


> I don't understand how you think you can forgive her and move forwards unless you know what you are forgiving her for. She's lying like a turd in the sun.
> 
> She only had sex with him 3 times? In six months? Really? C'mon. You sit her down and you tell her she has ONE last chance to come clean with you or reconciliation is off. Better yet, have her write a timeline of when the affair started and how many times they met to have sex, where and how. And by sex I mean not just intercourse. Blowjobs, hand-jobs, him going down on her, everything...it's all sex.
> 
> How much money did she spend on her affair? Eating out, motels, lingerie.....find out and add it up. She owes you this money.
> 
> Did she deny you sex while she was banging him? A hurdle if so.
> 
> She actually went and slept with him AFTER she confirmed the affair? Really? You know how much disrespect that entails? How did she explain that away?
> 
> Good luck brother. You are not anywhere near the solar orbit of planet of being ready to reconcile with this woman until you address the issues I've listed.


She is far from forgiven. I say 6 months because I reviewed her texts and messages and they became sexual in nature in May of 2017. Their first encounter on September 1st was just Oral. (both of them). On their next two encounters they did every dang thing under the sun. I asked about it all and she told about it all. I have phones and text records, facebook messenger records, GPS records, and Fitbit sleep and activity records. Believe it or not the Fitbit data proved to be the most useful. 

They never ate out, but they did eat lunch together at work. They never went to any hotels, and she did send him lingerie pictures but it was lingerie that I had bought her. (I have since disposed of those items). 

Part of what surprised me about it all is that not only did she not deny me sex, but it increased. (in the beginning anyway). From May to September the frequency that we were together increased or was the same. 1-2 times a week. In September she started back giving me blowjobs and had some new tricks and was way more into than I had remembered in a while.


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## Clay2013

What consequences has she suffered. It sounds like she got exactly what she wanted. In my mind the job would have to go. She would not get off scott free from this at all. She would have to do more heavy lifting than I bet she is willing to do. People love to use all the excuses they can to get out of the horrible choices they made. The next time she cheats for a raise she will be better at hiding it and more than likely she will take you to the cleaners in the divorce. 

The only way I would stay or even consider trying is a divorce with her putting her money where her mouth is a and she quits the job with a full open confession to everyone in management at her company. How she manipulated someone to get a promotion. If she would be willing to do that and start all over from square one on the relationship I would be willing to give her a chance if it was me. See in the end what everyone is saying her words mean nothing right now. Her actions are everything. If she was really remorseful she would have quit the job already and taken full ownership of this. Instead you had to catch her. You had to fight to get everything out in the open and now you get to suffer while she is rewarded with her promotion from screwing someone else for it. 

Trash is the word that comes to my mind when I think of a person like that. 

C


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## Txquail

Again you may not like my comments but....

MAKE YOUR WIFE QUIT RIGHT NOW

Company emails, instant messenger, company phones, meetings, etc. He can drive to her building and you wont know. Parkinglot sex arranged on company communications. She did that already she might be doing it right now.

You just admitted it all happened on company time

She wont like it and she'll be upset. Tell her its part of me healing and you cant work there anymore. Its a reminder of the affair.

Been ther, done it, have the tee shirt......


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## bandit.45

MenDontCry said:


> She is far from forgiven. I say 6 months because I reviewed her texts and messages and they became sexual in nature in May of 2017. Their first encounter on September 1st was just Oral. (both of them). On their next two encounters they did every dang thing under the sun. I asked about it all and she told about it all. I have phones and text records, facebook messenger records, GPS records, and Fitbit sleep and activity records. Believe it or not the Fitbit data proved to be the most useful.
> 
> They never ate out, but they did eat lunch together at work. They never went to any hotels, and she did send him lingerie pictures but it was lingerie that I had bought her. (I have since disposed of those items).
> 
> Part of what surprised me about it all is that not only did she not deny me sex, but it increased. (in the beginning anyway). From May to September the frequency that we were together increased or was the same. 1-2 times a week. In September she started back giving me blowjobs and had some new tricks and was way more into than I had remembered in a while.


If you are satisfied with this then give it a try. But like others have said, your WW has some serious character flaws as well as the morals of a nanny goat. Sorry man but the woman is loose. She needs to find Jesus or something because she has no parking brake. Any woman who would **** her boss to advance her career is not exactly marriage material. 

Honestly I don't see how you stomach having sex with her. But I give you props for being able to do so.


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## Yeswecan

MenDontCry said:


> The two sites are 40 miles apart. She has her google and apple GPS locations shared with me, and I can see where her car is at all times with on-star. I also do pop-up lunch and "just to say hi" visits.


Here is the question. Do you wish to spend the rest of your life conducting pop-up lunches and stopping by just to say hello knowing full well this is nothing more then checking up on your WW to assure she is where she claims to be? These are not visits of love and wanting to spend time together. This is making the rounds to assure all is as you are being told. Is that a way to live?

Sorry your here. Sorry you have spent your time and finances to look after in-laws. Watch kids and keep a job only to be betrayed by a person who has blamed this indiscretion on you. She thought you were checked out. Did not bother to ask you because your WW did not care. That explanation was formulated as what will be answered to any questions if and when the affair was brought to light.

For me, it appears your WW entire world along with her parents will implode if you were to walk. What is your WW stake in all of this now? I ask as your WW is capable of doing things the wrong way to advance a career.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

I don't mean to threadjack here, but I think this may be relevant with regard to the proposed lawsuit.

Is it really sexual harassment if the subordinate is the instigator?

No, just to be clear, I believe it is, at least, very poor business practice, and if I caught an employee sleeping with a subordinate in violation of policy, I'd fire his ass in a heartbeat. 

But most definitions of sexual harassment, legal or corporate, focus on the harasser being the aggressor and/or taking unfavorable action against the harassee if she (or he) does not comply. Giving favorable treatment to a willing sexual partner is bad practice, and a sackable offense, but doesn't seem to meet the definition of harassment. 

More importantly, these definitions always include some word or phrasing like "unwanted" contact or suggestions. If OPs wife was the instigator, it would seem the contact was not unwanted. 

POSOM boss definitely needs to be kicked to the curb by the employer, but it seems both illogical, and legally shaky, that POSWW has grounds for a settlement. While the boss is held to the higher standard, that doesn't change that this woman is an adult, in complete control of her faculties, and deliberately chose this path of her own volition. She was not "harassed." She got exactly what she wanted (right up until the time hubby was brought into the know).


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## sokillme

Here is some reading you might want to do. The people in these situations generally fared much better then the ones who kind of hold on to a ghost. 

I have to be honest and say you strike me as one of these guys who once they are over the trauma that they have suffered will eventually want to move on to someone else. This generally takes about a year or two. They hold on because of the emotional connection but eventually to end the pain they must end the emotional connection, once that is gone then she will just be a women who stabbed you in the back and are ready to find someone else. 

I know you don't see it now, but the fact that you are struggling with the fact that she could do this to you is all that needs to be said. That is not going to go away because it's not who you are. It's not how you see life, and commitment. So eventually you will get tired of the rumination on the how, and will just want to move on. There is nothing wrong with this by the way and totally healthy. It's OK to have standards and deal breakers. 

Now maybe I am wrong. If I am not though it's unfortunate that you will lose so much time on this. 

I mean people here will try to help you live with it, but the question you need to ask yourself is are you trying to live with something that is just a deal breaker for you? If you are it's better to end it now as to not waste more time.


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## MyRevelation

I've given this some thought and the only way she gets to keep her job is if you decide on D. If D is the course of action, then you want her employed to save you less or get from her more child support and alimony $$$.

However, if you are going to attempt R, which I would advise against, she simply has to quit that job for YOUR mental health. If not, the job in and of itself will be an ongoing trigger. You will always know that she still works with OM and has untraceable contact available to her and OM ... but most of all you know HOW she got that job. Her coming home and telling about her day ... seeing her go off to that job ... dropping in for lunch at her job ... the company Xmas party, etc. ... ALL will become ongoing and never ending TRIGGERS for the memories of just how she got where she is in the company.


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## Malaise

MenDontCry said:


> As far as the HR thing, I did contact HR but the OM kept texts and messages between them. He was definitely inappropriate but my wife was the instigator. My first thought after deciding not to beat his ass was to get him fired, but *my wife actually landed a very lucrative position nearly doubling her pay and I didn't want there to be any blowback on her. It pisses me off that he seems to be getting off Scott free though*.


The only reason he's getting off scot free is you value $$$$$ more than your honor, self esteem or integrity.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

MyRevelation said:


> I've given this some thought and the only way she gets to keep her job is if you decide on D. If D is the course of action, then you want her employed to save you less or get from her more child support and alimony $$$.
> 
> However, if you are going to attempt R, which I would advise against, *she simply has to quit that job for YOUR mental health.* If not, the job in and of itself will be an ongoing trigger. You will always know that she still works with OM and has untraceable contact available to her and OM ... but most of all you know HOW she got that job. Her coming home and telling about her day ... seeing her go off to that job ... dropping in for lunch at her job ... the company Xmas party, etc. ... ALL will become ongoing and never ending TRIGGERS for the memories of just how she got where she is in the company.


Is the issue the job or the presence of the OM at the job? If OM gets fired (which should happen here), that job no more or less a source of consternation than any other job.


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## Txquail

Issue is OM knows where she is and can meet up with her or use company communications to talk to her and vise versa.

They were having sex at lunch and in their cars

She needs to quit today.


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## badmemory

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Is it really sexual harassment if the subordinate is the instigator?
> 
> No, just to be clear, I believe it is, at least, very poor business practice, and if I caught an employee sleeping with a subordinate in violation of policy, I'd fire his ass in a heartbeat.
> 
> But most definitions of sexual harassment, legal or corporate, focus on the harasser being the aggressor and/or taking unfavorable action against the harassee if she (or he) does not comply. Giving favorable treatment to a willing sexual partner is bad practice, and a sackable offense, but doesn't seem to meet the definition of harassment.


I've been an HR Director for over 25 years with several companies; and trust me, *yes* it is sexual harassment, no matter how she participated. Because he..was...her....supervisor.


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## TRy

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Is it really sexual harassment if the subordinate is the instigator?


In answer to your question "Is it really sexual harassment if the subordinate is the instigator?", after recently having reviewing training videos on the subject, the answer is no it is not sexual harassment that your wife could sue on. Someone else that was competing with your wife for the promotion could sue for sexual harassment if they found out about the affair, but not your wife. The other person could claim that since they did not want to have sex with the boss, their career opportunities suffered at the company.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> But most definitions of sexual harassment, legal or corporate, focus on the harasser being the aggressor and/or taking unfavorable action against the harassee if she (or he) does not comply. Giving favorable treatment to a willing sexual partner is bad practice, and a sackable offense, but doesn't seem to meet the definition of harassment.
> 
> More importantly, these definitions always include some word or phrasing like "unwanted" contact or suggestions. If OPs wife was the instigator, it would seem the contact was not unwanted.


You are correct.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

badmemory said:


> I've been an HR Director for over 25 years with several companies; and trust me, *yes* it is sexual harassment, no matter how she participated. Because he..was...her....supervisor.


From the EEOC:
"Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment."
Again, nothing here was "unwelcome." Quite the opposite--it was highly desired and sought after. That word "unwelcome" is a prerequisite to everything that follows. 

Furthermore, the EEOC adds the following:
"The conduct of the offender must be offensive and unwelcomed by the victim."
The OP's wife did not find the conduct of her supervisor offensive; again, she initiated it. Nothing was unwelcome or even unsolicited. 

Now because she received advancement of a result of the sexual relationship, that may lead one to believe this is the "quid pro quo" type of sexual harassment (as opposed to the "hostile workplace" type of sexual harassment). However, to meet the definition of quid pro quo:
"Quid Pro Quo: Sexual harassment that occurs *when a supervisor or one in an authority position requests sex, *or a sexual relationship, in exchange for not firing or otherwise punishing the employee, or in exchange for favors, such as promotions or raises."
This request did not take place. The request was the subordinates, not the superior. As far as we know, the superior never made sex a condition of employment or advancement.

The Equality Act of 2010 definition of Sexual Harassment:
“unwanted conduct of a sexual nature which has the purpose or effect of violating someone’s dignity, or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for them.”
Again, "unwanted" is the foundational cornerstone from which everything else must rise. 

Sexual harassment according to Webster:
" uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical behavior of a sexual nature especially by a person in authority toward a subordinate (such as an employee or student)"
More of the same.

So whether its the dictionary, public law, or the nation's top employment body, all seem to be saying the same thing--none of which applies in this situation. I'm not an HR professional, but I can read. If HRs are including what happened here as sexual harassment, they appear to be expanding the definition beyond what is codified in authoritative law or definition.


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## doconiram

bandit.45 said:


> I don't understand how you think you can forgive her and move forwards unless you know what you are forgiving her for. She's lying like a turd in the sun.
> 
> She only had sex with him 3 times? In six months? Really? C'mon. You sit her down and you tell her she has ONE last chance to come clean with you or reconciliation is off. Better yet, have her write a timeline of when the affair started and how many times they met to have sex, where and how. And by sex I mean not just intercourse. Blowjobs, hand-jobs, him going down on her, everything...it's all sex.
> 
> How much money did she spend on her affair? Eating out, motels, lingerie.....find out and add it up. She owes you this money.
> 
> Did she deny you sex while she was banging him? A hurdle if so.
> 
> She actually went and slept with him AFTER she confirmed the affair? Really? You know how much disrespect that entails? How did she explain that away?
> 
> Good luck brother. You are not anywhere near the solar orbit of planet of being ready to reconcile with this woman until you address the issues I've listed.



Absolutely agree with this.

I'm not sure how she is doing everything she can if you are still uncertain about certain topics.

If you permit her to get away with minimizing (LYING) about details from the affair, then she is not being accountable and yo really can't be sure of what you are really forgiving her for like other OM's that you know nothing about presently.

The posters telling you she can sue for sexual harassment are spot on.

I would not let him get away with what he has done... Sue him for sexual harassment. The company will do what needs to be done regarding his employment. 

Your gps of her locations is not worth much as you do not have his GPS locations...


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## Jasel

I don't think you're taking the fact that she's still lying seriously enough. As someone else said, you can't reconcile or forgive if you don't know what you're forgiving for. I understand the # of times she had sex doesn't matter to you which is fine. But the fact that she's lying about the number, as well as the fact even the counselor has told you she's not being completely honest, should have you more concerned than it apparently does. 

If she's still lying, then she isn't "answering everything" if just being selectively honest. And if she's lying about that, what else is she lying about?? Is this even the first time she's cheated on you? Because it doesn't sound like you even had a clue she was cheating at all until you caught her. Because with the type of baggage you've laid out that she has, it's not unlikely that she has a few more skeletons in her closet. You should consider a polygraph. Again, you know she is still lying.

And I agree it really doesn't sound like she's faced many, if any, consequences. She had to quit her job but besides that, what? What lesson has she learned? What's to discourage her from doing this again? She got to have a nice little side boyfriend, extra sex on the side, and completely betrayed her husband and what price did she have to pay?? Really sounds like so far she's gotten off pretty easy. And for cheaters, a lot of them take that as a green light to do it again sometime down the road. Or pick up with whoever on the side they left off with.


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## re16

You say it doesn't matter that she hasn't told you the full truth about how often they were together.

If you are trying to reconcile, you need full truth. Without full disclosure, you don't even know what you are reconciling and she is still keeping secrets. That would be FALSE RECONCILIATION with a secondary D-day potentially coming, maybe even years later when some new truth shows up.

Take her for a ride in your car, pull into a parking lot, tell her she is there to take a polygraph test and review the questions she will be asked. This could be a complete bluff. Tell her that failing will be a deal breaker and then ask if there is anything she wants to disclose.

New information will be provided.

What you do when you find out she is still lying, up to you.... but it should be a clue as to how she will act in the future....


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## badmemory

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> From the EEOC:
> "Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment."
> Again, nothing here was "unwelcome." Quite the opposite--it was highly desired and sought after. That word "unwelcome" is a prerequisite to everything that follows.
> 
> Furthermore, the EEOC adds the following:
> "The conduct of the offender must be offensive and unwelcomed by the victim."
> The OP's wife did not find the conduct of her supervisor offensive; again, she initiated it. Nothing was unwelcome or even unsolicited.
> 
> Now because she received advancement of a result of the sexual relationship, that may lead one to believe this is the "quid pro quo" type of sexual harassment (as opposed to the "hostile workplace" type of sexual harassment). However, to meet the definition of quid pro quo:
> "Quid Pro Quo: Sexual harassment that occurs *when a supervisor or one in an authority position requests sex, *or a sexual relationship, in exchange for not firing or otherwise punishing the employee, or in exchange for favors, such as promotions or raises."
> This request did not take place. The request was the subordinates, not the superior. As far as we know, the superior never made sex a condition of employment or advancement.
> 
> The Equality Act of 2010 definition of Sexual Harassment:
> “unwanted conduct of a sexual nature which has the purpose or effect of violating someone’s dignity, or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for them.”
> Again, "unwanted" is the foundational cornerstone from which everything else must rise.
> 
> Sexual harassment according to Webster:
> " uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical behavior of a sexual nature especially by a person in authority toward a subordinate (such as an employee or student)"
> More of the same.
> 
> So whether its the dictionary, public law, or the nation's top employment body, all seem to be saying the same thing--none of which applies in this situation. I'm not an HR professional, but I can read. If HRs are including what happened here as sexual harassment, they appear to be expanding the definition beyond what is codified in authoritative law or definition.


I'm sure that all the former supervisors I have counseled over the years that tried to make that defense, got fired and had our company settle the harassment suit - will be thrilled to know that.

I will also add that the EEOC rarely makes a determination one way or another in these type of cases. 99 times out of 100 they make a "no finding" determination and send it on to the courts. I've never seen one of our defense attorneys who thought it was the best strategy to go to court when a supervisor is involved.


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## SunCMars

badmemory said:


> I'm sure that all the former supervisors I have counseled over the years that tried to make that defense, got fired and had our company settle the harassment suit - will be thrilled to know that.


As soon as the 'former' supervisor admits having had sexual relations with a subordinate, especially a 'married' subordinate. He/she is done. Case closed.
The fact that she was married supercedes, overrides all other judgements against him. This shows poor moral character by the supervisor. He would be canned immediately.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

badmemory said:


> I'm sure that all the former supervisors I have counseled over the years that tried to make that defense, got fired and had our company settle the harassment suit - will be thrilled to know that.


As I said before, I agree such supervisors should be fired immediately in this situation. I wouldn't defend a one of them. This behavior is unprofessional, improper, and has no place in any legitimate workplace. 

It just doesn't meet any authoritative definition of sexual harassment. If your firm wants to treat it as such, that's their choice. I understand settlements are often cheaper than going to court, so firms often take the easy way out based on a combination of cost of litigation and various risk calculations.


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## Thound

You need to come down off that cross and get your head right. You contributed to a bad marriage, but the affair is all on her. Get some help ASAP, and I would suggest a lawyer as well.


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## Malaise

MenDontCry said:


> I think she is lying about the number of times only because in my personal counseling sessions my counselor said to be wary of her downplaying details. The facts (which she didn't know I had) texts, and facebook conversations, confirm that they have only been together three times. She admitted to being with him three times without me telling her what I had. She has also answered ALL questions that I had. She didn't confess to everything initially. *My thought is that its because her affair wasn't ended because she had an epiphany.* *It was ended because I saw signs and then started snooping once the signs got to be too much.* I'd say it was about 45 days after the initial D-Day that we sat down after a counseling session and she laid everything out over the course of a 2 hour conversation. Then after that we talked another 2 hours or so with me just asking questions.


This could be still going on now then. 

Doesn't that tell you something?


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## TRy

SunCMars said:


> As soon as the 'former' supervisor admits having had sexual relations with a subordinate, especially a 'married' subordinate. He/she is done. Case closed.
> The fact that she was married supercedes, overrides all other judgements against him. This shows poor moral character by the supervisor. He would be canned immediately.


There are many threads in the infidelity section of this site where the cheated on spouse's report of their wife being romantically involved with the wife's boss did not result in the boss being fired. I also do not remember a single thread in the infidelity section where a sexual harassment lawsuit was successfully pursued based on an affair; there may be a few, but it is not common or automatic. Additionally, other than in the military, "poor moral character" is rarely an issue that matters to most companies.


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## TAMAT

MenDontCry,

It matters how many times because your WW is lying and she knows it, she is minimizing and omitting and will not recover until she has come clean. 

Get a polygraph for your WW if she has been truthful she will not object, you will likely get a parking lot confession.

While you WW says she was the aggressor, I suspect that is only partly true, the OM is likely a serial cheater who follows a script and paid your WW just the right complements to get her attached to him. OM knew what he was doing.

DNA your children.

Have your WW go for STD testing, you too since your WW may be an asymptomatic carrier, in any event you will have to observe yourself for a long time for HPV related cancers.

Do whatever you can to get the OM to quit the company, confront him and threaten a lawsuit if he does not quit.

Tamat


----------



## MenDontCry

Txquail said:


> Issue is OM knows where she is and can meet up with her or use company communications to talk to her and vise versa.
> 
> They were having sex at lunch and in their cars
> 
> She needs to quit today.


They never met up during work hours. The first time they met up was before work. She left our house an hour and 15 minutes early that day. The 2nd time was after work. She claimed that she had to work late and I never questioned it. (I was also out of town for work this time). The third time was not during work either and she did not go to work the next day. 
They were playing kissy face in the morning at work but never any sex. I have Fitbit data and other reliable ways of confirming this.


----------



## SunCMars

TRy said:


> There are many threads in the infidelity section of this site where the cheated on spouse's report of their wife being romantically involved with the wife's boss did not result in the boss being fired. I also do not remember a single thread in the infidelity section where a sexual harassment lawsuit was successfully pursued based on an affair; there may be a few, but it is not common or automatic. Additionally, other than in the military, "poor moral character" is rarely an issue that matters to most companies.


All Fortune 500 companies would fire a supervisor for cause, in this instance. If it is revealed to HR. Those days are long gone where it would be overlooked or rug swept. It may be were some foreign owned companies may try to ignore such incidences.

This has been my observation. Smaller companies may still hide the facts. Ignore the charges.


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## TRy

SunCMars said:


> All Fortune 500 companies would fire a supervisor for cause, in this instance. If it is revealed to HR. Those days are long gone where it would be overlooked or rug swept. It may be were some foreign owned companies may try to ignore such incidences.
> 
> This has been my observation. Smaller companies may still hide the facts. Ignore the charges.


 Only less than 6% of Americans work for Fortune 500 companies, while the majority of Americans work for what the government defines as small business (small business does not include just Mom and PoP companies), thus my statement that "There are many threads in the infidelity section of this site where the cheated on spouse's report of their wife being romantically involved with the wife's boss did not result in the boss being fired" is entirely true. Similarly, my statement that "I also do not remember a single thread in the infidelity section where a sexual harassment lawsuit was successfully pursued based on an affair; there may be a few, but it is not common or automatic", is also true. 

This has nothing do do with how you feel about the boss and his actions. This has everything to do with giving the OP accurate advice with reasonable expectations. We should not be leading the OP to make decisions based on the false assumption that all the OP had to do was sue the company and the money would come rolling in. To the OP this is not some game, this is his real life.


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## ABHale

MenDontCry said:


> Through counseling she has admitted that she thought the relationship was already over. She thought I as no-longer in love with her and that I wanted a divorce. She has admitted in counseling that she took the cowards way out and had an affair. Part of her reasoning was to help Shield herself from the hurt and pain of me wanting to leave. (I never wanted to leave. I have always love her).
> Her father committed suicide after not claiming her for 18 years, and her step-father left them and was abusive. Prior to my relationship with her was was also assaulted while in the army and her relationship that she was in prior to me was an emotional and physically abusive one.
> She has said that she wants us to last and that her intention is to repair our marriage. I believe her and that's what I want too, but I have no clue how to let her back in.


Some people just can’t let someone that does this back in.


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## Lostinthought61

Men, at the end of the day it's your life....but here is how I see it...she lied, she had sex with another man, got a promotion, got to stay at the same company, and on top of that she gets to keep her marriage, and she does not have to tell you the truth...am I missing something because it sounds like everything worked out for her, the boss and you come out looking weak.


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## TRy

MenDontCry said:


> she has admitted to being the instigator and the one who pushed for things to progress. She also admitted to using him to get her promotion.


 So “she has admitted to being the instigator”, “the one who pushed for things to progress”, to doing this “to get her promotion”. Now that she just got the promotion that she was after, and the affair partner is of no further use to her, she is perfectly willing to throw the other man away. She was just sleeping her way to the top. Your safe until she sees another opportunity to advance her career. Imagine how your wife would be viewed on this site if the other man’s wife posted here. 

As for your wife’s false claim that she thought that you did not love her and were ending the marriage, it does not ring true to you because it is not true. She is just making that up to keep you busy, and to give you false hope to cling to as you eat the **** sandwich she is feeding you. It is standard cheater’s script stuff. Do not buy into it. Stop dancing to the monkey music that she is playing for you.


----------



## SunCMars

Some nuts are hard to crack.

You cannot crack them with your fingers.
You cannot crack them with your teeth, even ever so slowly, patiently.
You cannot crack them with pliers.

You can crack them with a hammer.
But then you have ruined any semblance of a nut.
All you have is mush.

Nutty mush mixed with hard shell.

Suitable only for sucking.
Gads, this sucks.

You will be forever spitting out hard shells.
And some will forever stick in your teeth, your craw.....
Your guts.


----------



## SunCMars

Is ***** really worth this much anguish, this much grief?

Apparently so, as Mankind still thrives, flourishes, grows exponentially.

God gave men ***** for a reason.....
It seems to be a cruel one.

Aye, yes it be.

SunCMars-


----------



## Txquail

MenDontCry said:


> Txquail said:
> 
> 
> 
> Issue is OM knows where she is and can meet up with her or use company communications to talk to her and vise versa.
> 
> They were having sex at lunch and in their cars
> 
> She needs to quit today.
> 
> 
> 
> They never met up during work hours. first time they met up was before work. She left our house an hour and 15 minutes early that day. The 2nd time was after work. She claimed that she had to work late and I never questioned it. (I was also out of town for work this time). The third time was not during work either and she did not go to work the next day.
> They were playing kissy face in the morning at work but never any sex. I have Fitbit data and other reliable ways of confirming this.
Click to expand...

You do not know this for sure. Shes lying to you. 

She needs to quit now.

Shes got complete access to OM physically, work emails, work instant messenger, etc.


----------



## Chaparral

It seems like this whole thread has been jacked. It doesn’t look like half the posters are even reading your posts.

Actually, I like the idea of them working for the same company. It will be easier to spy and be sure things are going the right way. Maybe some folks will actually come by to help you with your questions. I would get some VARs to put in her car, hand bag, and home t see if she contacts him.
As you said, your wife has several serious background issues. Is she seeing a individual counselor? Is she being treated? Depression and her other issues are seen here all the time.

The same goes for you. Are you being treated? PTSD is highly treatable with some fairly new procedures, particularly EMDR. Are you seeing an individual therapist?

Neither of you have been a worthy partner recently. Divorce or not you both need fixing. And know this, it will take a minimum of tow to Bree years to get over this, maybe more.

Folks are just trying to let you know how difficult this will be. Take the advice you trust and ignore the rest. You have to answer to yourself. 

And get your home life straightened out. Not to mention personal hygiene.


----------



## MenDontCry

Chaparral said:


> It seems like this whole thread has been jacked. It doesn’t look like half the posters are even reading your posts.
> 
> Actually, I like the idea of them working for the same company. It will be easier to spy and be sure things are going the right way. Maybe some folks will actually come by to help you with your questions. I would get some VARs to put in her car, hand bag, and home t see if she contacts him.
> As you said, your wife has several serious background issues. Is she seeing a individual counselor? Is she being treated? Depression and her other issues are seen here all the time.
> 
> The same goes for you. Are you being treated? PTSD is highly treatable with some fairly new procedures, particularly EMDR. Are you seeing an individual therapist?
> 
> Neither of you have been a worthy partner recently. Divorce or not you both need fixing. And know this, it will take a minimum of tow to Bree years to get over this, maybe more.
> 
> Folks are just trying to let you know how difficult this will be. Take the advice you trust and ignore the rest. You have to answer to yourself.
> 
> And get your home life straightened out. Not to mention personal hygiene.


I'm a network engineer by trade and coincidentally one of the IT guys at her new job used to go to school with me. She recently got a new work computer and through some means that I will not disclose here I was able to get her old computer tower. She used it from the day she started her new job until mid Feb. With what I have been able to see on her computer I am relatively assured that she isn't in contact with the OM. There was one contact with him on December 28th (that she told me about already) that I found on her computer. An employee from her old site (where POSOM runs) needed a transfer to her site (that she now runs) and she had to send the request to him. 

As far as everything else goes, we went having separate checking accounts to a joint account (kinda) and I have full access to all of her credit cards and finances. I also have full access to her cell phone records and passwords. (The only thing I don't have is her work phone). I'm about as positive as anyone can be that she has broken it off and that she is respecting our "no contact" agreement.

As far as my PTSD, I am now going to therapy regularly and I understand better what it going on in my head. I'm having a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. War is a $%^&* and it does crazy things to your head. I'm learning healthier ways to deal with my PTSD triggers and I'm allowing my wife to help me cop instead of shutting her out.

In addition to the PTSD counseling we are doing marriage counseling together and she is doing individual counseling on her own.

Looking back I realize I was probably horrible to live with. (I was never abusive to her or our kids but I was definitely abusive to myself). The realization of how crappy I was is not something that she is putting on me. It's just me seeing what depression and PTSD did to me. The flip side of that is that she was a crappy person too for giving up on me during that time. She has acknowledged that and is working to be a better support system for me. 

At the end of the day I'm really not worried about her current honesty or about what happened with her affair. I have relative assurance that she has put it all out there and I have as much assuredness as anyone could have in this sort of situation that she is now telling the truth. The one thing that I don't know is how to forgive and look past the discretion. How to forgive what I once said was an absolute dealbreaker. How to allow someone back in that hurt me so badly when I needed her the most.


----------



## sokillme

MenDontCry said:


> I'm a network engineer by trade and coincidentally one of the IT guys at her new job used to go to school with me. She recently got a new work computer and through some means that I will not disclose here I was able to get her old computer tower. She used it from the day she started her new job until mid Feb. With what I have been able to see on her computer I am relatively assured that she isn't in contact with the OM. There was one contact with him on December 28th (that she told me about already) that I found on her computer. An employee from her old site (where POSOM runs) needed a transfer to her site (that she now runs) and she had to send the request to him.
> 
> As far as everything else goes, we went having separate checking accounts to a joint account (kinda) and I have full access to all of her credit cards and finances. I also have full access to her cell phone records and passwords. (The only thing I don't have is her work phone). I'm about as positive as anyone can be that she has broken it off and that she is respecting our "no contact" agreement.
> 
> As far as my PTSD, I am now going to therapy regularly and I understand better what it going on in my head. I'm having a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. War is a $%^&* and it does crazy things to your head. I'm learning healthier ways to deal with my PTSD triggers and I'm allowing my wife to help me cop instead of shutting her out.
> 
> In addition to the PTSD counseling we are doing marriage counseling together and she is doing individual counseling on her own.
> 
> Looking back I realize I was probably horrible to live with. (I was never abusive to her or our kids but I was definitely abusive to myself). The realization of how crappy I was is not something that she is putting on me. It's just me seeing what depression and PTSD did to me. The flip side of that is that she was a crappy person too for giving up on me during that time. She has acknowledged that and is working to be a better support system for me.
> 
> At the end of the day I'm really not worried about her current honesty or about what happened with her affair. I have relative assurance that she has put it all out there and I have as much assuredness as anyone could have in this sort of situation that she is now telling the truth. The one thing that I don't know is how to forgive and look past the discretion. How to forgive what I once said was an absolute dealbreaker. How to allow someone back in that hurt me so badly when I needed her the most.


Before you answer how, first ask why should I.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I think in order to forgive you need to see that there are consequences. And a little hysterical bonding goes a long way. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MenDontCry

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think in order to forgive you need to see that there are consequences. And a little hysterical bonding goes a long way.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yea. I'm grappling with the consequences part. If it is my goal to have a lasting partnership with someone then aiming to punish them shouldn't be my mindset. With that said, I do feel like there should be a consequence to her actions. I'm not sure losing my trust and having to relinquish some of her individual privacy is enough. It might be though? 

The hysterical bonding thing was crazy to me. I could not understand how I could be so enraged with someone and want them so badly at the same time. Us humans are crazy creatures.


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## GusPolinski

@MenDontCry, how did you meet your wife?

Was she married when the two of you began your relationship?


----------



## Windwalker

Well, you are going to have to figure out how to deal with this then,because it's obviously not a deal breaker. My suggestion would be IC. It sounds like you are already seeing one for your PTSD.

Take the advise you think works for you and leave the rest. I will however say this.

Your wife displays and has several massive (monumental) red flag behaviors. The most disturbing of which is that she is willing to climb the corporate ladder without the use of hands. 

I think that's something that you are going to have to look at far more than just her infidelity.

How do you reconsile the fact that from about 50,000 feet, you look like no more than an accessory.

And for the record, many people have deep emotional demons in their closet, but yet they function in life without acting out like that. Food for thought.


----------



## Txquail

Your being a door mat.

1. She sleeps with her boss to help get a promotion and you allow her to keep the job. I would have made her quit immediately or get served divorce papers. 

2. You think you have acesss to everything. I bet you dont.

3. If she was truely remorseful, she would find another company so she would have to see, talk or meet with OM.

4. Your in denial in believing her right now.


----------



## bandit.45

MenDontCry said:


> Looking back I realize I was probably horrible to live with. (I was never abusive to her or our kids but I was definitely abusive to myself). The realization of how crappy I was is not something that she is putting on me. *It's just me seeing what depression and PTSD did to me*. The flip side of that is that she was a crappy person too for giving up on me during that time. She has acknowledged that and is working to be a better support system for me.


You know what? Too bad so sad. She married a soldier. What did she think? That you were going to be assigned to a safe office somewhere in Virginia, filing toilet paper inventories? That you weren't going to be shot at, or suffer the trauma of seeing your buddies killed in front of you, or be subjected daily to constant threat of attack in some sh*thole foreign country where everybody hates you? 

I'm glad you're forgiving of your wife's infidelity, but I'm sorry MDC....I have no sympathy at all for your wife, or any of these wives and husbands of soldiers who use their spouse's PTSD and long absences as excuses to cheat. No sympathy at all. They suck. Your wife sucks for what she did to you, and she should be moving heaven and earth to make it up to you and prove she's worthy of a second chance. From my vantage point I don't see it.


----------



## Taxman

My wife asked and was granted a hall pass for my indiscretion. She used it, and made sure I was hurt by it. That is its sole reason for existence. I am one of the few who have had it used on me, and have lived to tell the tale.

I have seen it used several times in situations such as yours. The hall pass puts them on notice that their indiscretion will serve as the tipping point to hurt her as much as she hurt you, and allows that you at any time in the future can and will subject her to the hurt that she gave to you. In my case, it hurt even more, because without my infidelity, she would have NEVER slept with anyone else. You do not need to ever use the pass, however, she is on notice that she will no longer be your one and only. 

There are other consequences that you may dole out, such as separation, and disclosure that would be terribly uncomfortable for her, but this drives the point home, and it sticks. It causes, the same visceral reaction as the one I gave to her. I am sure that there will be any number of posters that will come here and say that it lowers you to the cheater's level, or you lose moral high ground, or whatever, and yes, that is the truth, my wife put it differently. She could not go back into the marriage knowing that there was an imbalance. She felt her act restored the balance and we could go back into the marriage as equals.


----------



## Windwalker

MenDontCry said:


> The hysterical bonding thing was crazy to me. I could not understand how I could be so enraged with someone and want them so badly at the same time. Us humans are crazy creatures.


It doesn't happen to everyone. I wanted to vomit at the sight of mine. I never touched her again. 

I also nuked it. I took every dirty secret and every cross word that her family said and used it against them all. Then I packed all my **** and left, because I had not intention of keeping a relationship with a lying cheater. 

You see, infidelity really is a deal breaker for me.


----------



## bandit.45

A hall pass is self defeating. All it does is bring the person using it down to the level of the WS. Yeah the field is level...if you like your field on a desert plain somewhere with dead cowskulls and tumbleweeds. 

Don't go there. If she won't help you heal and become a safe marriage partner, divorce her and move on to someone who will.


----------



## MenDontCry

GusPolinski said:


> @MenDontCry, how did you meet your wife?
> 
> Was she married when the two of you began your relationship?


No she wasn't married. I'm her 1st husband and she is my 1st wife.


----------



## GusPolinski

Txquail said:


> Your being a door mat.
> 
> 1. *She sleeps with her boss to help get a promotion and you allow her to keep the job.* I would have made her quit immediately or get served divorce papers.
> 
> 2. You think you have acesss to everything. I bet you dont.
> 
> 3. If she was truely remorseful, she would find another company so she would have to see, talk or meet with OM.
> 
> 4. Your in denial in believing her right now.


Right?
@MenDontCry, how long until she starts eyeing another promotion?


----------



## MenDontCry

bandit.45 said:


> A hall pass is self defeating. All it does is bring the person using it down to the level of the WS. Yeah the field is level...if you like your field on a desert plain somewhere with dead cowskulls and tumbleweeds.
> 
> Don't go there. If she won't help you heal and become a safe marriage partner, divorce her and move on to someone who will.


if I am to be honest about it she really is doing everything within her power to help me heal, to help us become better mates, and to help me feel safe within the marriage. 

The changing of jobs is a non-starter for me. If she still worked with the POSOM then it would be a different story. I am content with her running a site that is geographically separated from the site that he runs by 40 or so miles. 

As far as the hall pass, that's not what I want either. If I feel the need to sleep with someone else then I'll end my marriage first. There was an "almost" that happened in Hawaii right after the initial disclosure. I met someone on a dating app and met up with them with the intention of sleeping with them and letting my wife find out. (wife was in Hawaii with me at the time. I was there for work). I met the other lady and we wound up hanging out on the beach and talking for hours. Her ex-husband was a lier and a cheater and we wound up just talking and giving each other advice. I showed my wife the initial flirty texts and withheld the parts that showed that nothing happened and that we just talked. After a couple days I felt that I had done enough damage and I showed her everything and told her what actually happened when we met up. As a red-blooded male it's hard to imagine that I met up with a rather attractive woman in Hawaii, hung out on the beach for hours, and that we didn't have sex. It's just not what I wanted. I wanted my wife.


----------



## Chaparral

STD tests, child DNA tests, even a polygraph test have all been used here as necessary and consequential acts to show the wayward wife the seriousness of the act of infidelity. Talking to a lawyer and counselors are also consequences.

As far as you getting over it you seem to be doing things right. However, it’s is also on you to keep investigating to see what she is up to. Especially with her past issues. Burner phones are common as are cheating apps that are undetectable. Check her app purchases. You can buy pen VARs for her purse.

One reason to demand a polygraph, especially with her issues, is to see if she has ever cheated before. Depression and abuse go hand in hand with adultery.

As far as you go, only time will tell and how hard she tries over time will get you over this. It will fade and you will get over it. The danger is for her still. After two years I was simply not willing to go on. I convinced myself I could not make her happy. According to her though, I broke her heart. You are the one cheated on. How you handle it is your business. The upside is you will now have no
illusions as to being able to have 100% trust in anyone. That has saved me a lot of grief and disappointment.

Ask your wife if she understands that marriage is about two people being one. Nothing comes ahead of that. Many people put the marriage on hold for kids. Kids quickly grow up and leave for their own lives. It’s you and her against the world........or not.


----------



## MenDontCry

GusPolinski said:


> Right?
> 
> @MenDontCry, how long until she starts eyeing another promotion?


The promotion wasn't the cause of the affair. It was a by-product of it. Not making excuses for her but from my position she was attracted to the POSOM and she wanted to feel validated, needed, wanted, etc. She fu$$$$ up and she should have reached out to me for those things, but in her mind (erroneously) I no longer wanted her. She is a huge workout-a-holic and values her health and fitness. The month prior she had a health incident that caused her to lose a lot of muscle mass and to simultaneously gain a lot of weight. To me it seems like she wanted validation, and the things that he was saying to her must have provided it to her. Again, not making excuses for her and not saying it's ok. This is stuff that came out during counseling.

Well yes... She had ****ty character, but what exploit of her ****ty character was in use here to allow her to betray her spouse.


----------



## MyRevelation

If you intend to attempt R, which it appears to be your plan, then she simply has to quit that job, IMHO. As has been mentioned, if there are no consequences for her bad behavior, then its just a matter of time till the next potential promotion becomes open and she's off to the races as she sticks with a proven strategy. It has nothing to do with the current OM ... I have no doubt that A is over. He served his purpose ... by risking his career to help her. He was nothing more than a tool ... a "useful idiot" to reach her goal, in much the same role you are now serving by allowing her to be rewarded for using you to keep the home life stable.

In addition, by allowing her to keep her job, you are setting yourself up for an ongoing and never ending trigger. What kind of peace of mind will you ever enjoy watching your WW head off to a job she got solely by spreading her legs, knowing that its very likely to occur again when the next promotion opens.

So, the big question is ... Do you have any intention of imposing this consequence on your WW, for you to attempt R?


----------



## MenDontCry

Chaparral said:


> STD tests, child DNA tests, even a polygraph test have all been used here as necessary and consequential acts to show the wayward wife the seriousness of the act of infidelity. Talking to a lawyer and counselors are also consequences.
> 
> As far as you getting over it you seem to be doing things right. However, it’s is also on you to keep investigating to see what she is up to. Especially with her past issues. Burner phones are common as are cheating apps that are undetectable. Check her app purchases. You can buy pen VARs for her purse.
> 
> One reason to demand a polygraph, especially with her issues, is to see if she has ever cheated before. Depression and abuse go hand in hand with adultery.
> 
> As far as you go, only time will tell and how hard she tries over time will get you over this. It will fade and you will get over it. The danger is for her still. After two years I was simply not willing to go on. I convinced myself I could not make her happy. According to her though, I broke her heart. You are the one cheated on. How you handle it is your business. The upside is you will now have no
> illusions as to being able to have 100% trust in anyone. That has saved me a lot of grief and disappointment.
> 
> Ask your wife if she understands that marriage is about two people being one. Nothing comes ahead of that. Many people put the marriage on hold for kids. Kids quickly grow up and leave for their own lives. It’s you and her against the world........or not.


We both took STD tests immediately after discovery and I'm 100% positive our kids are mine. Not because of anything she has said or done but there are other circumstances at play that allow me to have 100% certainty. 

Good advise all around though. I'll look into the polygraph. Trust but verify.


----------



## sokillme

MenDontCry said:


> The promotion wasn't the cause of the affair. It was a by-product of it. Not making excuses for her but from my position she was attracted to the POSOM and she wanted to feel validated, needed, wanted, etc. She fu$$$$ up and she should have reached out to me for those things, but in her mind (erroneously) I no longer wanted her. She is a huge workout-a-holic and values her health and fitness. The month prior she had a health incident that caused her to lose a lot of muscle mass and to simultaneously gain a lot of weight. To me it seems like she wanted validation, and the things that he was saying to her must have provided it to her. Again, not making excuses for her and not saying it's ok. This is stuff that came out during counseling.
> 
> Well yes... She had ****ty character, but what exploit of her ****ty character was in use here to allow her to betray her spouse.


Stop thinking about her like the victim here, YOU are the victim. Guys who play the white knight most often get used and abused. 

You also need to ask yourself what has she learned from all this? Her sexuality allowed her to get a promotion in the job that you say here is a big part of her self validation. She had very little consequence from that, seems like her only consequence is you feel bad about it, but then again you are quick to see her a victim and even quicker to forgive her and look for ways to move on. That makes it easy for her. All she has to do is apologize. Give it a year and she will be complaining that it still comes up. 

You are choosing quite a painful life for yourself. Also if your core principle was "I would never stay with a cheater", I don't think that normally changes, you have just chosen to live a life that goes against a core principle. Which means again a painful life.


----------



## MenDontCry

MyRevelation said:


> If you intend to attempt R, which it appears to be your plan, then she simply has to quit that job, IMHO. As has been mentioned, if there are no consequences for her bad behavior, then its just a matter of time till the next potential promotion becomes open and she's off to the races as she sticks with a proven strategy. It has nothing to do with the current OM ... I have no doubt that A is over. He served his purpose ... by risking his career to help her. He was nothing more than a tool ... a "useful idiot" to reach her goal, in much the same role you are now serving by allowing her to be rewarded for using you to keep the home life stable.
> 
> In addition, by allowing her to keep her job, you are setting yourself up for an ongoing and never ending trigger. What kind of peace of mind will you ever enjoy watching your WW head off to a job she got solely by spreading her legs, knowing that its very likely to occur again when the next promotion opens.
> 
> So, the big question is ... Do you have any intention of imposing this consequence on your WW, for you to attempt R?


No, it's not my intention to ask or demand of her to leave her current position. We have discussed it previously and she asked me if I wanted her to quit. She was willing to but I didn't want her to. I have even asked her to stay in her current role longer than she originally intended because it will allow her time with our children and to simultaneously work on her MBA. 

There are other consequences that I am working on, but leaving her current job is not one of them. her current situation gives me enough peace of mind to allow it to continue.


----------



## MyRevelation

I had a another post typed that was pretty harsh towards both you and your WW, but I reconsidered in favor of a warning.

After being around infidelity forums for 10+ years, with both of your personalities, what you are signing up for almost always winds up one of two ways:

1. You will be back in a couple of years saying ... "You guys were right, she did it again" or ...

2. You will attempt to get through this by rugsweeping and white knuckling it through the bad spots until YOU can't do it anymore and pull the plug a few years down the road.


----------



## Txquail

You like your wife cheating at work? Ive worked between divisions of my company that were 30 miles apart. I drove between them on a weekly basis.

You can track her car and phone, but she can ride in his car and leave her phone at her desk.

Its cool if you are encouraging her to sleep with management to get promotions. 

I would make her quit so she knows her actions have consquenses, not a reward.

Don't worry, this is my last response. Good luck, I hope you dont get a "I told you so", moment in the future.

Everyone will tell you she needs to have no contact and that would require her to quit today. Id have her quit just soley because she got the promotion for her ability to have sex with her boss.


----------



## arbitrator

MenDontCry said:


> She only worked there one more day after I discovered it all. And the boss is 2X divorced. Even after all of this time I still feel like I should confront him though. There should be consequences. While he is not the one that broke vows to me, he definitely knew she was married.


*And he had absolutely no problem in tapping it, either! Got a strange feeling that your wife was not exactly his first time at the rodeo!

No small wonder why he's 2X divorced!

Don't confront him ~ confront the company HR Department about him! Ask them if fraternal sex among its employees is standard protocol!

He needs to have his homewrecking a$$ in the unemployment line!*


----------



## bandit.45

How does your wife think that causing you more PTSD will help with your PTSD? Have you asked her that?


----------



## TRy

MenDontCry said:


> The promotion wasn't the cause of the affair. It was a by-product of it. Not making excuses for her but from my position she was attracted to the POSOM and she wanted to feel validated, needed, wanted, etc. She fu$$$$ up and she should have reached out to me for those things, but in her mind (erroneously) I no longer wanted her.


MenDontCry, please stop repeating her cheater's lie that "in her mind (erroneously) I no longer wanted her". It does not ring true to you, because it is not true. She is not "erroneously" stating this, she is lying, and it seems to be working. If she did not use this very common and standard cheater's excuse, she would have used one of the other common and standard cheater's excuses that you see in the infidelity section of this site. You buying into this makes you look foolish to her, which makes her lose respect for you.

You know that her excuse is bull, but you are believing it because you want to believe. It makes it easier for you to rug sweep and pretend that your marriage will quickly go back to where it was before. Rug sweeping, and her not respecting you, leads to false reconciliation.


----------



## TRy

MenDontCry said:


> No, it's not my intention to ask or demand of her to leave her current position. We have discussed it previously and she asked me if I wanted her to quit. She was willing to but I didn't want her to. I have even asked her to stay in her current role longer than she originally intended because it will allow her time with our children and to simultaneously work on her MBA.
> 
> There are other consequences that I am working on, but leaving her current job is not one of them. her current situation gives me enough peace of mind to allow it to continue.


 If your intention is to "allow it to continue", you are right on track.


----------



## sokillme

TRy said:


> MenDontCry, please stop repeating her cheater's lie that "in her mind (erroneously) I no longer wanted her". It does not ring true to you, because it is not true. She is not "erroneously" stating this, she is lying, and it seems to be working. If she did not use this very common and standard cheater's excuse, she would have used one of the other common and standard cheater's excuses that you see in the infidelity section of this site. You buying into this makes you look foolish to her, which makes her lose respect for you.
> 
> You know that her excuse is bull, but you are believing it because you want to believe. It makes it easier for you to rug sweep and pretend that your marriage will quickly go back to where it was before. Rug sweeping, and her not respecting you, leads to false reconciliation.


Agreed, but lets follow that logic though. Now you have a wife who cheated on you right in the middle of your PTSD that you got for fighting for your country and her. Again following her logic (and the Esther Perel's of the world for that matter) if anyone is entitled to an affair at this point it's you right? If anyone has a reason to no longer fell wanted it's the spouse who was cheated on. This is why that kind of affair apology doesn't work in a logical sense. She had a right to end the relationship with you, not cheat. 

If you are going to try to salvage your marriage better to deal with reality. She had an affair because she is selfish and when it came to your marriage and her feelings she picked her feelings.


----------



## Evinrude58

TRy said:


> MenDontCry, please stop repeating her cheater's lie that "in her mind (erroneously) I no longer wanted her". It does not ring true to you, because it is not true. She is not "erroneously" stating this, she is lying, and it seems to be working. If she did not use this very common and standard cheater's excuse, she would have used one of the other common and standard cheater's excuses that you see in the infidelity section of this site. You buying into this makes you look foolish to her, which makes her lose respect for you.
> 
> You know that her excuse is bull, but you are believing it because you want to believe. It makes it easier for you to rug sweep and pretend that your marriage will quickly go back to where it was before. Rug sweeping, and her not respecting you, leads to false reconciliation.


Yep, Yep, and Yep.

You are in typical Betrayed spouse mode. You have no idea (I did it, too) how common it is for a betrayed spouse to start blaming themselves. What about wives who have truly AWFUL husbands that DO NOT CHEAT?????? Is there something wrong with the abused wives who don't cheat, or is something wrong with the women who aren't abused that DO CHEAT?

You are rugsweeping...... This won't end well. You have no chance at a successful marriage when you are ESTABLISHING PRECEDENT that you will tolerate cheating, and accept all the blame for it.
You've received multiple warnings on this from other posters. Think about it. 
Name one thing that has happened that would cause your wife to take a pause when another attractive man that she wants to screw approaches her in the future after she is again secure in the relationship?


----------



## sa58

She used/conned him!

She is using/ conning you!

How long did it take her to convince you to let her keep her job?

TAM will hear from you in the future for sure.


----------



## ABHale

You said there should be consequences for what she has done. 

Making her do a DNA test for the kids is one. I know you are a 100% sure they are yours, it’s a I don’t trust anything you say anymore.


----------



## Evinrude58

My suggestion anytime a spouse decides to have an affair is to file for divorce. That way, they know you are serious and won't tolerate the behavior, and if you choose to actually divorce, the process is already started. After all, what would have you told yourself, OP, years before you ever married that you would do if your wife cheated on you? I'll bet it would be divorce her. 
But.......... Yeah, that was before you loved her, right? Well, you still love HER, but does she REALLY love YOU? After all, instead of standing by you in your time of need, she abandoned you and started a relationship with another man. She could have divorced you at any time if you were such a horrible husband. She didn't. She cheated. And now, she wants to continue the "marriage". Really?

I'd file tomorrow and have her served papers, NOW THAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH IT MYSELF. You can always stop the process. 

But doesn't your wife need to KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you aren't really willing to tolerate her banging other dudes whenever things are bad in the marriage? Doesn't she need to have a LITTLE FEAR of losing her husband after ****ing another dude for 6 months?

You are passively floating along and rugsweeping this entire thing. You're showing weakness. And weakness is a relationship KILLER. I know, because I showed it, and I am divorced. (Happily, might I say...) But I didn't want it at the time. I just had no choice because my ex was still cheating. What proof do you have that your wife isn't cheating STILL. They still have lots of opportunity with her working at the same company. Let's face it, you have admitted she'd still be doing the dude if you hadn't caught on to the shenanigans.

Think long and hard about making this easy on your wife. What SHOULD a man or woman really do when their spouse has an affair? My first thought is divorce and find a more loyal partner. You can file and show your wife some consequences. By the time it nears the end of the process, you might have even wisely have decided to follow through and move on. But if you give some consequences, you may just force her to rethink the horror she has put you through and find her feelings for you again. I personally think right now she is not remorseful, and is just in ass saving mode, telling you whatever it is she thinks you want to hear.

Right now, you are rugsweeping and your wife is going to see you as a weak, passive individual that will tolerate any behavior at all without divorcing her. At that point, she is going to start pushing you around all over the place, knowing you really won't do anything about it. Another affair? Likely. There's lots of men willing to court a married woman, as you've found out.


----------



## Wolf1974

Just because you forgive her doesn’t mean you have to stay with her. Let that sink in for a moment.


I think many BS who forgive think they can get back to that happy place they once had with thier WS. You can’t. Affairs change everything. The lies, the deceit, the mind movies. The best you can do is try to forge a new relationship and move forward. But if you have to forge a new relationship why not do that with a new partner...... preferably one with character?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Postnup.


----------



## Chaparral

Even if you don’t want to pay for an attorney, it would ha a good idea to download andivorce packet for your state . You may have to pick one up at the county courthouse. Then you can “accidentally” make sure she sees it. Tell her you e had it for awhile and it’s there if you need it. 

Post nup is also a good idea though a lawyer may tell you they are unenforceable your wife doesn’t need to know that.

Her story about thinking you didn’t love her anymore is lame. However, a polygraph could help with that.

Actually, the best thing about your sitch is that the affair caused her to become more sexual with you. Generally, when that happens she is in it for kicks and giggles and not love. Double edged sword though. She risked her marriage not for love but thrills.


----------



## Adelais

Something about how it was handled regarding her job doesn't sit well with me.

Oh I know, it seems that since she has a good paying job, the $ makes up for the fact that she had an affair with her ex boss who works there.

Money...dealing properly with an affair....money....affair....money....affair.....

It seems like the two are being weighed against each other, and the money wins out in your marriage rather than completely dealing with the affair, and setting everything right.

If there is any chance they will cross paths at work, one of them needs to leave.

OP. Honestly, how do you feel about the possibility of them interacting with each other, or even being in the same room together at a work related meeting?

If your answer is that it would make you uncomfortable, then you need to insist she gets a different job. That is unless money is more important to you than your mental health and your marriage over the long haul.

I'm talking about the long haul. Your being on edge because they might still be together sometimes will slow, or halt your healing and thus the recovery of your marriage.


----------



## MenDontCry

Araucaria said:


> Something about how it was handled regarding her job doesn't sit well with me.
> 
> Oh I know, it seems that since she has a good paying job, the $ makes up for the fact that she had an affair with her ex boss who works there.
> 
> Money...dealing properly with an affair....money....affair....money....affair.....
> 
> It seems like the two are being weighed against each other, and the money wins out in your marriage rather than completely dealing with the affair, and setting everything right.
> 
> If there is any chance they will cross paths at work, one of them needs to leave.
> 
> OP. Honestly, how do you feel about the possibility of them interacting with each other, or even being in the same room together at a work related meeting?
> 
> If your answer is that it would make you uncomfortable, then you need to insist she gets a different job. That is unless money is more important to you than your mental health and your marriage over the long haul.
> 
> I'm talking about the long haul. Your being on edge because they might still be together sometimes will slow, or halt your healing and thus the recovery of your marriage.



The same job thing is not at all an issue for me. It seems to be of great focus here (which is understandable) but they are no more likely to run into each other or have to interact with each other at work than they are to randomly see the other at a gas station or grocery store. They run two different facilities in two different cities. There would be no legitimate reason for them to cross paths at work. There would be legitimate reason for them to be in the same room.


----------



## Txquail

I can send instant messages on my company computer to our other facilities at different locations.

I can send emails to anyone in my company.

I can pick up my company phone and call anyone in the company.

I can call meetings and include others on it at their location.

OM can do all these.

[All of those, you absolutely have no access to. Your wife can do the same. The people she works for will cover for her]

I can jump in a car drive 40 miles to see someone in another facility. The OM can do this and have lunch with her and get a hotel for a hour or so. She just needs to leave her phone at her desk.

And like I said before, climbing the corporate ladder by having sex, not her professional abilities. 

You know my opinion, I wont say again what you should have her do.


----------



## x598

op the only "epiphany" here was she got CAUGHT.

people harping on her quitting her job (to which i agree) is because she hasn't really had ANY consequences for her choices.

"im sorry, i screwed up" doesnt mean diddly when it comes after being found out. it would mean more if she came to you and admitted what she was up to on her own...but thats not the case here.

and i dont buy the same old, over used, worn out line....."i was unhappy, thought you didnt care/love me line" as seen around here so often. if that was really the case...then she should be happy this is out and then open and she is free to live and not look back. the fact she wants to stay says it all. this was nothing more than a little fun, ego gratification with a job promotion thrown in as a bonus.

the only real question is at this point is do you want to live with that person?


----------



## Suspicious1

Taxman said:


> My wife asked and was granted a hall pass for my indiscretion. She used it, and made sure I was hurt by it. That is its sole reason for existence. I am one of the few who have had it used on me, and have lived to tell the tale.
> 
> I have seen it used several times in situations such as yours. The hall pass puts them on notice that their indiscretion will serve as the tipping point to hurt her as much as she hurt you, and allows that you at any time in the future can and will subject her to the hurt that she gave to you. In my case, it hurt even more, because without my infidelity, she would have NEVER slept with anyone else. You do not need to ever use the pass, however, she is on notice that she will no longer be your one and only.
> 
> There are other consequences that you may dole out, such as separation, and disclosure that would be terribly uncomfortable for her, but this drives the point home, and it sticks. It causes, the same visceral reaction as the one I gave to her. I am sure that there will be any number of posters that will come here and say that it lowers you to the cheater's level, or you lose moral high ground, or whatever, and yes, that is the truth, my wife put it differently. She could not go back into the marriage knowing that there was an imbalance. She felt her act restored the balance and we could go back into the marriage as equals.


Man that's disturbing, I could not read your entire post.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## x598

Taxman said:


> My wife asked and was granted a hall pass for my indiscretion. She used it, and made sure I was hurt by it. That is its sole reason for existence. I am one of the few who have had it used on me, and have lived to tell the tale.
> 
> I have seen it used several times in situations such as yours. The hall pass puts them on notice that their indiscretion will serve as the tipping point to hurt her as much as she hurt you, and allows that you at any time in the future can and will subject her to the hurt that she gave to you. In my case, it hurt even more, because without my infidelity, she would have NEVER slept with anyone else. You do not need to ever use the pass, however, she is on notice that she will no longer be your one and only.
> 
> There are other consequences that you may dole out, such as separation, and disclosure that would be terribly uncomfortable for her, but this drives the point home, and it sticks. It causes, the same visceral reaction as the one I gave to her. I am sure that there will be any number of posters that will come here and say that it lowers you to the cheater's level, or you lose moral high ground, or whatever, and yes, that is the truth, my wife put it differently. She could not go back into the marriage knowing that there was an imbalance. She felt her act restored the balance and we could go back into the marriage as equals.


there have been many threads on revenge affairs. I am all for doing it. not to "even the score" or fix an "imbalance"...to me those are childish reasons where a score is kept in a game. The usefulness of an RA, to me, and especially with blame-shifting unrepentant spouse.....is that it shows them what THEY have done and the hurt and world shattering life they have now gifted to you. Funny how when the tables are turned all of a sudden they don't want that shifted to them.


----------



## Taxman

x598 said:


> there have been many threads on revenge affairs. I am all for doing it. not to "even the score" or fix an "imbalance"...to me those are childish reasons where a score is kept in a game. The usefulness of an RA, to me, and especially with blame-shifting unrepentant spouse.....is that it shows them what THEY have done and the hurt and world shattering life they have now gifted to you. Funny how when the tables are turned all of a sudden they don't want that shifted to them.


Oh, she wanted me to feel every last iota of what I put her through. And I did get it, thoroughly and completely. I was working as a per diem with a small firm and one of the younger partners came up to me and said, you look like shytte, so I told him. Not a half hour later, the managing partner asked me into his office. He told me that my story was identical to his. He said that she had to get it out of her system and needed to hurt me. Not wanted, needed. She had to give me the same shattered world that I gave her. It propelled me into IC. And it lit a fire under my ass in MC. We got to the bottom of the issues, and there were many. It took a couple of years in MC, and IC has been ongoing since then. I tell my story, more or less as a cautionary tale. It has been over 30 years since, and neither of us has come close to stepping out since then.


----------



## MenDontCry

Txquail said:


> I can send instant messages on my company computer to our other facilities at different locations.
> 
> I can send emails to anyone in my company.
> 
> I can pick up my company phone and call anyone in the company.
> 
> I can call meetings and include others on it at their location.
> 
> OM can do all these.
> 
> [All of those, you absolutely have no access to. Your wife can do the same. The people she works for will cover for her]
> 
> I can jump in a car drive 40 miles to see someone in another facility. The OM can do this and have lunch with her and get a hotel for a hour or so. She just needs to leave her phone at her desk.
> 
> And like I said before, climbing the corporate ladder by having sex, not her professional abilities.
> 
> You know my opinion, I wont say again what you should have her do.


Really, this part is something that I'm good with. I have her old work computer with full access to her work outlook. I have her work VPN information and can access her work email at any time. I don't have her company phone access but that would be the case no matter where she worked. The only other thing I don't have is access to her Citrix or other video conferencing apps. That's something I'm willing to forgo. As far as driving to the site to meet it really wouldn't matter where she worked. If she/he wanted to meet up at lunch it wouldn't matter where she worked. The thing about it is, with the distance and traffic there is very little chance that he could "meet up" with her at lunch without taking half the day off. But again, it doesn't matter where she worked. I'm about as confident as anyone can be in this situation that the affair is over and that she isn't continuing to communicate with him. 

Her current job and their continued communication (or lack thereof) isn't my issue. 

She did it, she had the affair. It's over and done. After being confronted she didn't have to tell the truth. She told the truth without knowing what I knew.


----------



## Txquail

Its not over, shes still talking to OM behind your back. Shes probably giving it to him still.

20 miles each way would take 15mins if they chose to meet in the middle, which they are.

You THINK you have access, but you dont. Shes got all these communications tools you admit you have no access to.

When you catch her again, please let us know.


----------



## MenDontCry

Txquail said:


> Its not over, shes still talking to OM behind your back. Shes probably giving it to him still.
> 
> 20 miles each way would take 15mins if they chose to meet in the middle, which they are.
> 
> You THINK you have access, but you dont. Shes got all these communications tools you admit you have no access to.
> 
> When you catch her again, please let us know.


With daytime traffic Its 1 hour 20 minutes between sites. We talk every day during her lunch. I have Onstar on her car to see her cars location. I have her location sharing turned on for her phone and her iPad. I have cameras at my front door and sides of my house. While I don't have a VAR. (just ordered one). I did leave an old iPhone under her the back seat of her car for a week or so with a recording app turned on. I couldn't do this on her way from work but I would set it up in the morning on her way to work. The only thing I heard was music or her talking to me.

Before D-Day they talked to each other all the time when she was at home, either via text, FB messenger, or phone conversations. I would work in our home office until the early hours of the morning so I just never saw it. The amount of time that we were around each other daily could be measured in minutes. We are around each other all the time when she's at home now. We workout together, we shop together, we go to our kids activities together. On top of that I have gathered enough "proof" to catch her telling the truth enough to believe with near certainty that the affair is over. 

I am confident that the affair is over. 

The affair still happening is not the reason I posted on here, and it's not what I need help with.


----------



## MyRevelation

MenDontCry said:


> Really, this part is something that I'm good with. I have her old work computer with full access to her work outlook. I have her work VPN information and can access her work email at any time. I don't have her company phone access but that would be the case no matter where she worked. The only other thing I don't have is access to her Citrix or other video conferencing apps. That's something I'm willing to forgo. As far as driving to the site to meet it really wouldn't matter where she worked. If she/he wanted to meet up at lunch it wouldn't matter where she worked. The thing about it is, with the distance and traffic there is very little chance that he could "meet up" with her at lunch without taking half the day off. But again, it doesn't matter where she worked. I'm about as confident as anyone can be in this situation that the affair is over and that she isn't continuing to communicate with him.
> 
> Her current job and their continued communication (or lack thereof) isn't my issue.
> 
> She did it, she had the affair. It's over and done. After being confronted she didn't have to tell the truth. She told the truth without knowing what I knew.


MDC,

I'd really like to reach through the interwebs to give you a cybersmack in the head, while blasting you for how badly you're handling this whole situation, but that would more than likely just turn you off and you'd tune me out.

You see ... we BH's that have hung around infidelity forums remember what it feels like in the early days post D-Day. We remember the screw ups we made ... the lies we were told ... how quickly we wanted to "fix" things ... the pain, emptiness and how low our self-esteem bottomed out. Because of all that, sometimes we really get invested in a fellow BH that seems to be one of the "good guys" that is getting played by their WW and through our combined efforts, we try multiple tactics to get through to that BH, to help him through the ****storm by showing him where the landmines are that we know about, but he doesn't see ... and that is exactly where you find yourself right now.

You really don't understand the importance of NO CONTACT and how not enforcing that concept keeps the A going at least on simmer and/or sends the clear message to your WW that this wasn't that big of a deal and you're OK with it. 

Think of it this way ... you were confused and frustrated enough to go online an search for answers to all the questions swirling around in your head from your WW's A. You then find a community that is experienced and willing to reach out and help a complete anonymous stranger ... and then you IGNORE the EXACT advice you sought and requested. Let that sink in ... you are ignoring advice that is basically universal from fellow BH's that have already navigated the waters where you now find yourself floundering.


----------



## Txquail

> Her current job and their continued communication (or lack thereof) isn't my issue.


At least you admit they are still talking.

And he could drive to see her at 10am when theres no traffic. Go to early lunch and hotel trip IN HIS CAR, arranged by company instant messenger which you have no access.

His car = no VAR, no tracking, etc. All your wife has to do is leave her phone at her desk. She just needs to be back at her desk at lunch to talk to you.


----------



## MenDontCry

No contact is being enforced. She change jobs. (same company, different position, different site). She gave sent him a no-contact email and phone call. I monitor her communication. I called the POSOM myself (from his number that I found on her cell-phone records) and told him to no longer speak to her. I told him that I had all of the evidence that I needed to go to HR and that the only reason that I didn't go was because of me looking out for her career, but that if there was any further contact or communication HR would be my next step. The guys is also in the Army reserves and I told him that I would take the adultery evidence to his command. 

I appreciate the help but I don't know how to get everyone here to understand that the issue you are harping on isn't the issue of my concern.


----------



## Txquail

Its called experience dude

Do a search, youll find hundreds of pages how they still cheat if they work together and can still talk.

You cant monitor company instant messengerand chat software


----------



## MenDontCry

Txquail said:


> Its called experience dude
> 
> Do a search, youll find hundreds of pages how they still cheat if they work together and can still talk.
> 
> You cant monitor company instant messengerand chat software


They don't work together. The company isn't structured where people that run different sites have communication with one another. The only sort of communication that she could be having is the same sort of communication she could be having no matter where she worked. 

I got cheated on because I trusted her and she took advantage of it. I'm not stupid. If I thought there was a chance they would have contact with one another she wouldn't still be working at her current job. 

I have this part of it handled. I don't know how else to say it.


----------



## MyRevelation

Not all infidelities are equal, and quite frankly, you're dealing with a pretty big **** sandwich. You have a WW that was ****ing her boss for a promotion ... for money, power, prestige ... and there is a real nasty word for that type of woman.

... and just as bad ... YOU are rewarding that behavior by not insisting that she quit that job. I just don't understand you ... why aren't you RAGING about this. Hell, I'm pissed off for you and embarrassed of you as a fellow BH.


----------



## badmemory

MenDontCry said:


> They don't work together. The company isn't structured where people that run different sites have communication with one another. The only sort of communication that she could be having is the same sort of communication she could be having no matter where she worked.
> 
> I got cheated on because I trusted her and she took advantage of it. I'm not stupid. If I thought there was a chance they would have contact with one another she wouldn't still be working at her current job.
> 
> I have this part of it handled. I don't know how else to say it.


Okay MDC, you're confident the chance of contact in her current job would be about the same if she quit and got another job. You don't won't to lose the money she's making. I get it and I hope you're right. But regardless, quitting her job was a consequence she needed and yet avoided.

Now comes the hard part. Don't let her avoid any other consequences. Starting with, a few weeks/months of her not knowing your decision on R or D. Don't commit to R until she's had enough time to demonstrate she's desperate to save her marriage. Hope for the best but plan for the worst - for now.


----------



## Txquail

MDC you are right. Youd think since I work 1500 miles away from another business unit for my company that I wouldnt talk to anyone.

Far from the truth. I instant message/email/call people at the other location all the time. 

I also have to visit that location from time to time.

If I had an affair, got a promotion due to that affair, Id quit immediately because it would show true remorse to my spouse.

Apparently your wife can walk all over you.

I still believe shes talking and seeing the OM and your too blind to see it.


----------



## eric1

I think that you are doing fine.

While there may be a chance she is still in contact there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it short of divorce.

Your entire focus right now should be on understanding if you can get over this.


----------



## jsmart

MyRevelation said:


> Not all infidelities are equal, and quite frankly, you're dealing with a pretty big **** sandwich. *You have a WW that was ****ing her boss for a promotion ... for money, power, prestige ... and there is a real nasty word for that type of woman.*
> 
> ... and just as bad ... *YOU are rewarding that behavior by not insisting that she quit that job.* I just don't understand you ... why aren't you RAGING about this. Hell, I'm pissed off for you and embarrassed of you as a fellow BH.


I totally agree. I'm going to give OP the benefit of the doubt that NC is being maintained. By not insisting on her quitting that job, you're allowing her to have no consequences for her actions. 

Even worse, it comes across like you value the money more than your sense of self respect or honor. You don't think your WW is picking up on that. You want to financially benefit from her money that she got by basically prostituting herself. 

Personally, I don't get it. I would rather be tight financially and even get another job than benefit from extra money that would remind me of how another man sullied her.


----------



## Chaparral

Txquail said:


> I can send instant messages on my company computer to our other facilities at different locations.
> 
> I can send emails to anyone in my company.
> 
> I can pick up my company phone and call anyone in the company.
> 
> I can call meetings and include others on it at their location.
> 
> OM can do all these.
> 
> [All of those, you absolutely have no access to. Your wife can do the same. The people she works for will cover for her]
> 
> I can jump in a car drive 40 miles to see someone in another facility. The OM can do this and have lunch with her and get a hotel for a hour or so. She just needs to leave her phone at her desk.
> 
> And like I said before, climbing the corporate ladder by having sex, not her professional abilities.
> 
> You know my opinion, I wont say again what you should have her do.


Which of these things can you not do working for a different company. She might even have to get a job much closer to him. 

Quoting a job where a affair partner works is a have to case for reconcilliation because seeing each other reignites the affair. Work for the same company forty miles apart seems okay. There is never a guarantee. 

In my view, I would be more worried about a new man given her past issues. I also don’t think this affair had anything to do with loving the other man. He was just a side piece. Serial cheater?


----------



## Txquail

Chaparral said:


> Txquail said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can send instant messages on my company computer to our other facilities at different locations.
> 
> I can send emails to anyone in my company.
> 
> I can pick up my company phone and call anyone in the company.
> 
> I can call meetings and include others on it at their location.
> 
> OM can do all these.
> 
> [All of those, you absolutely have no access to. Your wife can do the same. The people she works for will cover for her]
> 
> I can jump in a car drive 40 miles to see someone in another facility. The OM can do this and have lunch with her and get a hotel for a hour or so. She just needs to leave her phone at her desk.
> 
> And like I said before, climbing the corporate ladder by having sex, not her professional abilities.
> 
> You know my opinion, I wont say again what you should have her do.
> 
> 
> 
> Which of these things can you not do working for a different company. She might even have to get a job much closer to him.
> 
> Quoting a job where a affair partner works is a have to case for reconcilliation because seeing each other reignites the affair. Work for the same company forty miles apart seems okay. There is never a guarantee.
> 
> In my view, I would be more worried about a new man given her past issues. I also don’t think this affair had anything to do with loving the other man. He was just a side piece. Serial cheater?
Click to expand...

At her current job. Her co-workers covered for. You should not be promoted by having sex with your boss. By letting her stay she is getting rewarded for the affair. She should have to quit. She needs to know her actions have consequences. She use sex to gain in a position she should have to lose that position immediately for that action.

At another job. You are not authorized to install second party software so she could chat with the man. You can get fired for that. Other companies have policies about installing software not authorized by it. It will put a big damper on her being able to talk to him. Also calling another phone number that is not within the company and talking for hours would be frowned upon. An interoffice call however is not frowned upon.

Also he will always have doubts that the man still works with her and has constant contact with her. Part of healing and regaining trust is taking your wife out of the situation where she can repeat the same thing again.

The whole sleeping with your boss so you can get a promotion in itself is bad. Basically I view it as this person is allowing his wife to become a prostitute so he can get money from this particular company.

Have you ever watch the movie Indecent Proposal? Now there are people that will allow their wives to sleep with another man for a million dollars. I'm not one of those types of people. I'd rather be broke living on minimum wage then have my wife sleep with another man so I can gain financially.


----------



## oldtruck

I do not like that you cannot access your WW's work phone. That is a huge
blind spot for her to restart her affair.

Was a work place exposure done?


----------



## oldtruck

Also what will you do when years from now when the company restructures
or OM and or WW get a promotion, or any other reason and now they get
moved back to the same location?

WW needs to find a new job. You want WW to keep her job then you
must expose the affair to HR. WW may have to file a sex harassment
case against the OM. OM may get fired, WW's promotion maybe her
last promotion. Eventually she will be downsized out or not get any
more raises pushing her to quit.

Facing consequences.


----------



## MenDontCry

Chaparral said:


> Which of these things can you not do working for a different company. She might even have to get a job much closer to him.
> 
> Quoting a job where a affair partner works is a have to case for reconcilliation because seeing each other reignites the affair. Work for the same company forty miles apart seems okay. There is never a guarantee.
> 
> In my view, I would be more worried about a new man given her past issues. I also don’t think this affair had anything to do with loving the other man. He was just a side piece. Serial cheater?


Not worried about the old boss. And no the affair didn't have anything to do with love for the other man. She was with him for numerous hours a day, their friendship grey, she liked the way he responded to her and it boosted her self esteem. She ****ed up and took it to the next level. I'm sure she enjoyed the thrill of the affair and the affirmation that she still had it. She did it at the expense of me and our marriage without thinking about the consequences. She exhibited poor judgement definitely. 

I don't believe her to be a serial cheater. The signs that she exhibited during this affair were never there before and the amount of time that we were together before was (most likely) not enough to cultivate a relationship that could lead to cheating before. Again, this is her first job in a long while. She took time off to have our children and she took time off to finish school. Our agreement was that she wouldn't go back to work until our kids started kindergarten. 

As far as it happening again, that's something that now is a possibility in my head. The goal (if I decide to stay and I convince myself that this is a forgivable offense) is to build an affair proof marriage. That will take work on both of our parts.


----------



## As'laDain

MenDontCry said:


> Not worried about the old boss. And no the affair didn't have anything to do with love for the other man. She was with him for numerous hours a day, their friendship grey, she liked the way he responded to her and it boosted her self esteem. She ****ed up and took it to the next level. I'm sure she enjoyed the thrill of the affair and the affirmation that she still had it. She did it at the expense of me and our marriage without thinking about the consequences. She exhibited poor judgement definitely.
> 
> I don't believe her to be a serial cheater. The signs that she exhibited during this affair were never there before and the amount of time that we were together before was (most likely) not enough to cultivate a relationship that could lead to cheating before. Again, this is her first job in a long while. She took time off to have our children and she took time off to finish school. Our agreement was that she wouldn't go back to work until our kids started kindergarten.
> 
> As far as it happening again, that's something that now is a possibility in my head. The goal (if I decide to stay and I convince myself that this is a forgivable offense) is to build an affair proof marriage. That will take work on both of our parts.


unfortunately, it is impossible to entirely affair proof a marriage. but, you CAN cause your wife to break out in a cold sweat just at the thought of it, IF you are able to cause her enough anxiety through the consequences of her actions...

you seem pretty convinced that she would never do it again. what, specifically, tells you this? i am asking because a lot of people here seem to be trying to convince you that you have either rug swept the affair, or that your wife will likely just cheat on you again. so, i am asking you what SHE has done that causes you to believe otherwise?


----------



## MenDontCry

oldtruck said:


> I do not like that you cannot access your WW's work phone. That is a huge
> blind spot for her to restart her affair.
> 
> Was a work place exposure done?


Her corporate work phone is not a desk phone. It's a company owned cell-phone used for management of her facility. When she leaves at night she leaves it with her #2 in command. Her take home phone is subsidized by her work but I have full access to it.

Yes a workplace exposure was done. (at her previous site) I went to her work to confront him and to affirm my suspicions. He showed up to work late that day (luckily for both of us) but in the process of asking around for him I let her co-workers know why I was there.


----------



## thedope

So big boss man screws BH wife. Boss man suffers no actual consequences.


----------



## Nucking Futs

MenDontCry said:


> Her corporate work phone is not a desk phone. It's a company owned cell-phone used for management of her facility. When she leaves at night she leaves it with her #2 in command. Her take home phone is subsidized by her work but I have full access to it.
> 
> Yes a workplace exposure was done. (at her previous site) I went to her work to confront him and to affirm my suspicions. He showed up to work late that day (luckily for both of us) but *in the process of asking around for him I let her co-workers know why I was there.*


So her co-workers know that she ****ed the boss and got a promotion. I wonder what would happen if one or more of them complained to HR that she was promoted instead of them because she slept with the boss. Or made that complaint to an employment lawyer.


----------



## MenDontCry

As'laDain said:


> unfortunately, it is impossible to entirely affair proof a marriage. but, you CAN cause your wife to break out in a cold sweat just at the thought of it, IF you are able to cause her enough anxiety through the consequences of her actions...
> 
> you seem pretty convinced that she would never do it again. what, specifically, tells you this? i am asking because a lot of people here seem to be trying to convince you that you have either rug swept the affair, or that your wife will likely just cheat on you again. so, i am asking you what SHE has done that causes you to believe otherwise?


I'm no more convinced that she would never do it again than I am that I would never cheat or that anyone that is married would never cheat. Affair apparently happen in 80% of marriages so being entirely convinced that it would never happen is silly. It's part of what didn't allow me to see the signs she was exhibiting in the first place. I have a motto that goes "anybody is capable of anything, on any given day". Meaning that anything and anyone is capable of anything.

As far as what has she done. She offered to quit the job, she has gone to counseling, she had accepted full fault and been honest about what happened and her mindset. How she was delusional and that the deeper she got entangled the more she was able to convince herself it was ok because I did't want her. She's being treated for her own depression. She shares her whereabouts with me. We talk more, we do more activities together. We workout together. She has willingly given up personal privacy (my intent is that if we stay together to not keep this up indefinitely due to the demoralizing nature of it and the possibility of causing resentment in the long term. More covert means of watching and confirming will be moved to in the future). She doesn't leave the room when talking on the phone, she freely has given me her passwords and access to all of her electronic devices. I'm sure there's more that I'm leaving out.


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## As'laDain

MenDontCry said:


> I'm no more convinced that she would never do it again than I am that I would never cheat or that anyone that is married would never cheat. Affair apparently happen in 80% of marriages so being entirely convinced that it would never happen is silly. It's part of what didn't allow me to see the signs she was exhibiting in the first place. I have a motto that goes "anybody is capable of anything, on any given day". Meaning that anything and anyone is capable of anything.
> 
> As far as what has she done. She offered to quit the job, she has gone to counseling, she had accepted full fault and been honest about what happened and her mindset. How she was delusional and that the deeper she got entangled the more she was able to convince herself it was ok because I did't want her. She's being treated for her own depression. She shares her whereabouts with me. We talk more, we do more activities together. We workout together. She has willingly given up personal privacy (my intent is that if we stay together to not keep this up indefinitely due to the demoralizing nature of it and the possibility of causing resentment in the long term. More covert means of watching and confirming will be moved to in the future). She doesn't leave the room when talking on the phone, she freely has given me her passwords and access to all of her electronic devices. I'm sure there's more that I'm leaving out.


it sounds like your wife is doing well enough so far. if you arent concerned about her commitment, then the next step is just a whole hell of a lot of communication, a whole hell of a lot of honesty. 

and, dont go covert unless you suspect she is actually cheating again. if you are pretty sure she is not cheating, then be open about it. randomly ask to see her phone, ask her where she was at what time, etc. if you suspect she is cheating, then you can be sure she will lie to you. if you think she is being honest, then actively checking up on her will remind her of the consequences of cheating and will let you know if she is still fully on board with working with you. 

if she is, then she will not mind you checking up on her.


----------



## drifting on

Mendon’t 

I’m not going to harp on you about your wife still working with OM. I’ll try to answer the questions in your first post without giving you my opinions about the affair. Remember, I said I would try, but I don’t think I can promise you that I won’t offer my opinions. You’ve asked how to get the images/mind movies out of your head. You have to find a routine that you have, say the first four things you do each morning. As you repeat your routine in your head it forces you to think about what you do. It sounds silly, but I found that lessened the mind movies and images to be fewer. You have to concentrate on your routine. As time passes these become less, sadly that’s measured in years.

I’m going to say this, you need to decide if you can move forward, move forward with your wife or without. That’s the biggest question facing you, if you can move forward. I hope you understand that your marriage is dead, over, it has to be built up from anew. That means you tell your wife your true feelings, the mind movies, images, and you seeing them together. Your wife needs to hear this from you, as well as answering each question honestly. You think you may have the truth, I assure you that you don’t. Can you still move forward without knowing the full truth? I’ll tell you this too, you won’t ever know the full truth.

Your wife said she thought the marriage to be over, that you no longer wanted her. Would you be in the pain that you are if it really were over as she says? What she is doing is deflecting, not confronting the truth, and that’s not good. Your wife needs a big dose of truth, and then must accept to work that truth out, whatever that truth may be. You see, my wife said the same thing, funny thing though, she never mentioned any of this to me. Your error is that you then believe her and mix your wrongs of the marriage into the affair. The affair is completely separate from the marriage. You own none of the affair, your wife owns that one hundred percent. You own fifty percent of the marriage problems, your wife the other fifty percent. Work on your fifty percent, work on you, let her work on her and the marriage, she is the one that killed it. 

Make no mistake MDC, your wife isn’t remorseful, regretful maybe, but until she owns the truth can remorse set in. You’ll know when you see it, it’s completely different from what you do see now. As for her job, my wife offered to quit to, instead I got OM to quit. I confronted OM twice, but you need to be smart when confronting and not turn it into a physical encounter unless he gets physical first. Anyway, what I do see is your wife doesn’t respect herself. Sleeping her way to a promotion is low, she would be far better off to know she is in her position based on other attributes then sex. I expect you to defend your wife after that comment, but I ask you to reflect on your defending her, your reflection just may enlighten you. 

So you are faced with the same question, can you forgive. Only you know the answer to this, and no forum can make this decision for you. Is it difficult, hell yes. Is it painful, hell yes. Will it take incredible strength, from not only you but your wife also, hell yes. Will it take three to five years, hell yes. Reconciliation is a very difficult path to take, I know, I’m doing it. My wife also had a six month long affair at work, one that resulted in the birth of twins, that aren’t mine. I know the road you will travel, the potholes, the pain, and roller coaster you will embark upon. Best of luck to you.


----------



## oldtruck

MenDontCry said:


> Her corporate work phone is not a desk phone. It's a company owned cell-phone used for management of her facility. When she leaves at night she leaves it with her #2 in command. Her take home phone is subsidized by her work but I have full access to it.
> 
> Yes a workplace exposure was done. (at her previous site) I went to her work to confront him and to affirm my suspicions. He showed up to work late that day (luckily for both of us) but in the process of asking around for him I let her co-workers know why I was there.


That is not a work place exposure. There has to be official contact with the HR department.
Otherwise management will act as if they did not hear about anything.


----------



## [email protected]

Your wife screwed the boss for promotion (maybe) and he suffers no real consequence. He's higher status than you, and you can't seem to get that through your head. Think of the enlisted man trying to compete with the commissioned officer. He can't. And you can't compete with the ex-boss. She will look around for another A with another guy who outranks you. YOU CAN'T COMPETE! Anyhow, maybe you just want to continue rugsweeping. Sorry.


----------



## Primrose

Look, I'm far from anti-reconciliation. I have been the WW before. I have been given that second chance and I like to believe that I am proof that 'once a cheater, always a cheater' is not always true. To this day, nearly 12 years later, if I could take back one thing it would be choosing to destroy my ex-husband. Even though we are no longer together and we are both happy in our new paths, I still have a hard time forgiving myself for the hurt I caused him. Yes, he "got me back" tenfold. Some would say we are even now since he didn't stop at just one revenge affair. But I will never forget the look of heartbreak on his face when I first admitted it to him. To this day it still haunts me and brings tears to my eyes that I was actually capable of doing what I did. 

I do believe there is hope for your marriage. It's encouraging that your wife is being so openly transparent with you. That is a must for the entirety of your marriage. Cheaters lose a lot of personal privacy once they are revealed to be no longer worthy of blind faith. You (the wayward) now owe it to your spouse to continuously prove you are being open and honest. It's not enough to just make a promise on your fidelity now. Words mean nothing at this point. It's your actions that will do the talking. 

Continue to hold your wife accountable. Never let her lay any blame on you. The betrayed spouse is partly responsible for the state of the marriage, but that same spouse never has an iota of blame when the wayward spouse decides to stray. That lands squarely on their own shoulders. Pointing fingers at the betrayed is a clear indication that your SO has yet to reach a place of genuine remorse. 

Keep at it, OP. Reconciliation is harder than divorcing, but it's not always the wrong choice. I wish you the best.


----------



## TRy

MenDontCry said:


> Affair apparently happen in 80% of marriages so being entirely convinced that it would never happen is silly. It's part of what didn't allow me to see the signs she was exhibiting in the first place. I have a motto that goes "anybody is capable of anything, on any given day".


 This is you rationalizing giving your wife a 2nd chance by falsely saying that affairs “happen in 80% of marriages”. In other words everyone does it so it is no big deal. Serious studies do not support this 80% number. The real number is not even close. Studies show that one or both partners in a marriage will be involved in infidelity in approximately 1/3rd of marriages, so most marriages do not have infidelity. Also, studies show the the wife has been involved in infidelity in approximately 20% of marriages, meaning 80% of wives have not been. What the data does support is that if a partner has an affair once, they are more likely to have one again. Give her a 2nd chance if you want, but please be honest with yourself when you do it.


----------



## thedope

TRy said:


> MenDontCry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Affair apparently happen in 80% of marriages so being entirely convinced that it would never happen is silly. It's part of what didn't allow me to see the signs she was exhibiting in the first place. I have a motto that goes "anybody is capable of anything, on any given day".
> 
> 
> 
> This is you rationalizing giving your wife a 2nd chance by falsely saying that affairs ?happen in 80% of marriages?. In other words everyone does it so it is no big deal. The data does not support this 80% number. What the data does support is that if they cheat once, they are more likely to cheat again. Give her a 2nd chance if you want, but please be honest with yourself when you do it.
Click to expand...

Yes, he is trying to rug sweep. Providing justification.


----------



## Txquail

He claims shes reformed and has NC with OM.

1. Wife got promoted for having sex with boss. She gets to keep job.

2. Wife allowed to work at OM with all lines of communications open. Instant messenger, emails, skype, and other software.

3. Wifes 2nd company cell phone does not go home with her, but she gives it to her #2. Uh huh its probably on her desk

4. Wife works within driving range of OM for lunch and hotel visits.

5. Wife will not go to HR about affair with her boss.

Man has more faith in his wife than I would.

I would have made her quit, give me access to everything, VAR in car, etc... and then it still may goto divorce.

Hate to sound lime hes the pimp and his wife is the prostitute to get money. Allowing wife to sleep with boss for a promotion. Yes as hard as this sounds, Im still trying to snsp him out of his denials


----------



## MenDontCry

Txquail said:


> He claims shes reformed and has NC with OM.
> 
> 1. Wife got promoted for having sex with boss. She gets to keep job.
> 
> 2. Wife allowed to work at OM with all lines of communications open. Instant messenger, emails, skype, and other software.
> 
> 3. Wifes 2nd company cell phone does not go home with her, but she gives it to her #2. Uh huh its probably on her desk
> 
> 4. Wife works within driving range of OM for lunch and hotel visits.
> 
> 5. Wife will not go to HR about affair with her boss.
> 
> Man has more faith in his wife than I would.
> 
> I would have made her quit, give me access to everything, VAR in car, etc... and then it still may goto divorce.
> 
> Hate to sound lime hes the pimp and his wife is the prostitute to get money. Allowing wife to sleep with boss for a promotion. Yes as hard as this sounds, Im still trying to snsp him out of his denials


1: promotion wasn't the purpose of the affair. I could add enough details to explain or you could take my word for it. If the intent is to actually help then you'll just take my word for it.
2: Wife doesn't work with OM. The same lines of communication are open that would be open no matter where she works.
3: I have been to her job regularly. I know the handoff process. She regularly gets calls from the work cell phone in the evening when issues arise. I have personally called her work cell from unlisted numbers in the evenings after she was home. 
4: The only way the two sites are within driving range is if you owned a monster truck. I have personally made the drive. Again, I'll reiterate that her car and all electronic device have GPS monitoring turned on. We talk on FaceTime, we talk on her phone, and we talk on google hangouts. 
5: Of course she's not going to go to HR. What purpose would that serve? She initiated it. She pushed it to the next level. Was he ultimately willing, yes. Was this the first time he did this, probably not. But it was two adults making bad choices. If she still worked at the old site or still worked with him then I could see demanding she go to HR or that I go myself.


----------



## Txquail

Untrue on all accounts.

1. Regardless what you say. She had sex with the boss and got promoted. In a court, everyone can see this. IF IT WASNT, have her disclose this to HR. I bet OM BOSS and she would be fired immediately.

2. Lines of communication would be cut off if she quit and got another job. She wouldnt be able to have co-workers cover it up. Also my instant message will not work outside of our network. Installing 3rd party software is against policy and can get one terminated. Also all phone calls are recorded and if I were on the phone talking with someone on non business for hours, Id get in trouble. Emails are saved etc.

This does not apply to internal emails, phonecalls and instant messages.

3. 40 miles isnt far dude. I could schedule an off site meeting and drive to her facility, pick her up and leave. If she left her phone on her desk, you cant track it. You dont have a VAR in his car. He can have sex in the parkinglot again like you said they did before


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## MenDontCry

thedope said:


> Yes, he is trying to rug sweep. Providing justification.


There is no rugsweeping and I'm far from providing justification. There is absolutely ZERO justification to cheat. She betrayed me and our vows. She lied and betrayed me. She has fully accepted and confessed to her betrayal. She has attempted to make amends for her actions. The fact that there is even an affair section on the forum is proof positive that anyone is capable of anything on any given day. People make bad choices sometimes and apparently they don't always live up to the moral standards that they prescribe for themselves. No one on here expected their partner to betray them. It was not the fault of anyone on here that was cheated on. Anyone on here that doesn't believe that it is possible that their partner could potentially cheat is delusional. They're also probably not doing things to prevent it because in their mind it is not a possibility. 
Theres a huge difference in listening to what what going on in someones head at the time of their poor decision making and justifying their decision making.


----------



## manwithnoname

MenDontCry said:


> There is no rugsweeping and I'm far from providing justification. There is absolutely ZERO justification to cheat. She betrayed me and our vows. She lied and betrayed me. She has fully accepted and confessed to her betrayal. She has attempted to make amends for her actions. The fact that there is even an affair section on the forum is proof positive that anyone is capable of anything on any given day. People make bad choices sometimes and apparently they don't always live up to the moral standards that they prescribe for themselves. No one on here expected their partner to betray them. It was not the fault of anyone on here that was cheated on. Anyone on here that doesn't believe that it is possible that their partner could potentially cheat is delusional. They're also probably not doing things to prevent it because in their mind it is not a possibility.
> Theres a huge difference in listening to what what going on in someones head at the time of their poor decision making and justifying their decision making.


What you are doing is justifying your rug sweeping. How is she making amends, by quitting her job? All the gps trackers and her phone etc. do absolutely nothing if the OM visits her at work. Or a new guy. She's done it once that you know of, and if she was the one that initiated, what's to stop her from picking out a new guy in her male dominated workplace?


----------



## thedope

manwithnoname said:


> MenDontCry said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no rugsweeping and I'm far from providing justification. There is absolutely ZERO justification to cheat. She betrayed me and our vows. She lied and betrayed me. She has fully accepted and confessed to her betrayal. She has attempted to make amends for her actions. The fact that there is even an affair section on the forum is proof positive that anyone is capable of anything on any given day. People make bad choices sometimes and apparently they don't always live up to the moral standards that they prescribe for themselves. No one on here expected their partner to betray them. It was not the fault of anyone on here that was cheated on. Anyone on here that doesn't believe that it is possible that their partner could potentially cheat is delusional. They're also probably not doing things to prevent it because in their mind it is not a possibility.
> Theres a huge difference in listening to what what going on in someones head at the time of their poor decision making and justifying their decision making.
> 
> 
> 
> What you are doing is justifying your rug sweeping. How is she making amends, by quitting her job? All the gps trackers and her phone etc. do absolutely nothing if the OM visits her at work. Or a new guy. She's done it once that you know of, and if she was the one that initiated, what's to stop her from picking out a new guy in her male dominated workplace?
Click to expand...

Every one here is saying the same thing. He doesn't want to admit he is rug sweeping. But that is what it is. I'm not trying to be a jerk. If he can accept that and can live with that, then that's on him.

Boss man screwed his wife, and suffered zero consequences.


----------



## TRy

MenDontCry said:


> There is no rugsweeping and I'm far from providing justification.


 You may not be justifying her infidelity, but you are rationalizing it; your false statement that affairs “happen in 80% of marriages” is an example of this. Rationalization is one of the standard tools of rug sweeping, so yes you are in fact rug sweeping. Not saying this to be mean. You did not deserve this happening to you, and never prepared for it. You are doing the best that you can to deal with the hurt and rug sweeping helps in the short run, but it hurts you even more in the long run. I wish you the best.


----------



## MenDontCry

Txquail said:


> Untrue on all accounts.
> 
> 1. Regardless what you say. She had sex with the boss and got promoted. In a court, everyone can see this. IF IT WASNT, have her disclose this to HR. I bet OM BOSS and she would be fired immediately.
> 
> 2. Lines of communication would be cut off if she quit and got another job. She wouldnt be able to have co-workers cover it up. Also my instant message will not work outside of our network. Installing 3rd party software is against policy and can get one terminated. Also all phone calls are recorded and if I were on the phone talking with someone on non business for hours, Id get in trouble. Emails are saved etc.
> 
> This does not apply to internal emails, phonecalls and instant messages.
> 
> 3. 40 miles isnt far dude. I could schedule an off site meeting and drive to her facility, pick her up and leave. If she left her phone on her desk, you cant track it. You dont have a VAR in his car. He can have sex in the parkinglot again like you said they did before


1: what would be the purpose of doing that?

2: Your job is not her job. You understand how your company communication systems work and I understand how her company communications work. Her IT department and rules are not the same as your companies IT department and rules. I'm a network engineer. I pay my mortgage due to network security or lack-thereof. I have this part of the situation under control. I'm not going to go into how I know this but there are methods and people that werent in place before that are there now. 

3: 40 miles with the traffic in our city might as well be a different state. The affair is over. Being worried that the affair is still ongoing isn't why I'm here.


----------



## MenDontCry

TRy said:


> You may not be justifying her infidelity, but you are rationalizing it; your false statement that affairs “happen in 80% of marriages” is an example of this. Rationalization is one of the standard tools of rug sweeping, so yes you are in fact rug sweeping. Not saying this to be mean. You did not deserve this happening to you, and never prepared for it. You are doing the best that you can to deal with the hurt and rug sweeping helps in the short run, but it hurts you even more in the long run. I wish you the best.



80% of marriages have affairs. That number came from here https://www.truthaboutdeception.com/cheating-and-infidelity/stats-about-infidelity.html. They quote 60% of marriages conservatively. With misreporting or no reporting of many affairs due to not getting caught, serial cheaters, or other reasons, 80% is a very believable number. 

I'm not rationalizing her affair. I am however rationalizing her state of mind. It doesn't matter how incorrect her feelings at the time were, they were still her thoughts and feelings at the time. She acted inappropriately. She lied, she betrayed. She has admitted to all. She didn't handle things the way she should have and in hindsight she and I both wish she exercised better judgement. There is no justification for her actions. There is no valid reason to betray your vows. If you're not happy you either try to fix things, or you divorce. Those are the two proper ways to handle things. She didn't do either. That ship has however sailed. She made poor choices and the question now is what to do with the fallout of those poor choices.

If anyone out there thinks that it's impossible for their spouse to have an affair they are as delusional as I was when I thought it couldn't happen to me.


----------



## Andy1001

MenDontCry said:


> 80% of marriages have affairs. That number came from here https://www.truthaboutdeception.com/cheating-and-infidelity/stats-about-infidelity.html. They quote 60% of marriages conservatively. With misreporting or no reporting of many affairs due to not getting caught, serial cheaters, or other reasons, 80% is a very believable number.
> 
> I'm not rationalizing her affair. I am however rationalizing her state of mind. It doesn't matter how incorrect her feelings at the time were, they were still her thoughts and feelings at the time. She acted inappropriately. She lied, she betrayed. She has admitted to all. She didn't handle things the way she should have and in hindsight she and I both wish she exercised better judgement. There is no justification for her actions. There is no valid reason to betray your vows. If you're not happy you either try to fix things, or you divorce. Those are the two proper ways to handle things. She didn't do either. That ship has however sailed. She made poor choices and the question now is what to do with the fallout of those poor choices.
> 
> If anyone out there thinks that it's impossible for their spouse to have an affair they are as delusional as I was when I thought it couldn't happen to me.


Buddy if you are convinced that your wife’s affair is over and that she is truly remorseful then that’s great.If you keep reading the posts here and then defending yourself,your wife, and your marriage, then you will never move on.
Most people posting here have been cheated on and that colors their judgement.
Take a break from this forum for a while and then update or ask for more advice later.I can sense your frustration from here and I know exactly how it feels to have a lot of people giving contradictory advice.


----------



## TRy

MenDontCry said:


> 80% of marriages have affairs. That number came from here https://www.truthaboutdeception.com/cheating-and-infidelity/stats-about-infidelity.html. They quote 60% of marriages conservatively. With misreporting or no reporting of many affairs due to not getting caught, serial cheaters, or other reasons, 80% is a very believable number.


In order to rationalize, you are statistics shopping for the highest number instead of looking at the preponderance of data. Google for the stats and you will see that the 80% number is a big time outliner, that does not line up at all with the major studies.


----------



## satphil

Andy1001 said:


> Buddy if you are convinced that your wife’s affair is over and that she is truly remorseful then that’s great.If you keep reading the posts here and then defending yourself,your wife, and your marriage, then you will never move on.
> Most people posting here have been cheated on and that colors their judgement.
> Take a break from this forum for a while and then update or ask for more advice later.I can sense your frustration from here and I know exactly how it feels to have a lot of people giving contradictory advice.


Excellent advice.


----------



## thedope

satphil said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy if you are convinced that your wife’s affair is over and that she is truly remorseful then that’s great.If you keep reading the posts here and then defending yourself,your wife, and your marriage, then you will never move on.
> Most people posting here have been cheated on and that colors their judgement.
> Take a break from this forum for a while and then update or ask for more advice later.I can sense your frustration from here and I know exactly how it feels to have a lot of people giving contradictory advice.
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent advice.
Click to expand...

Agreed, he just continues to justify rug sweeping anyway. Being in this site willdo him no good.


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## Txquail

> Agreed, he just continues to justify rug sweeping anyway. Being in this site willdo him no good.


Agreed


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## OutofRetirement

From May to October your wife was messed up mentally, character-wise, however you want to put it.

You knew her very well and you just didn't think this was possible due to her strong character. In hindsight, likely you can see some signs, but at the time you overrode or ignored the signs because you knew she would not cheat. 

I see a lot of situations like the one I described above. One thing off is that she pursued initially. I've seen validation cheaters pursue, but almost always the affair partner makes the first move. Once the cheater is caught, frequently it flips with the cheater pursuing. 

It word be very unusual for them not to have had some kind of closure talk, a few more speaking to settle it, say their sad goodbyes, I will love you forever, or I always think of you fondly, or some such junk. I would say it happens 100% of the time except I know some special snowflake actually was too afraid to get caught and too afraid spouse would divorce if caught. Not in your case though, she wasn't that afraid and lied for a couple more months trickling.

The way they talk is by work phone, burner phone, friend or relative phone, the list can go on. 

What matters? In whether you care she spoke to him two more times and never again after that shortly after d-day, or she stayed no contact like you demanded? Probably you don't care much, but I think truthfulness matters. It's part of character. And when you talk about forgiving or feeling secure she won't do it again someday, this is where truthfulness or lack of comes into play. 

There is a trauma effect too. Like, after a minor heart attack, people are gung ho for about six months. Then for many it gradually fades and the old habits return. Not for all, but many. 

Do yourself a favor and consider that you and your wife are I the mainstream as far as behavior. As an engineer, you are likely intelligent and have also had at least some education in behavioral sciences. It's not exact as physics, but it is very predictable nonetheless.

As any human behavior, cheating is predictable. To avoid repetitive behavior, you and especially her have to make lasting changes. Is the scare of getting caught and possibly losing you enough of a shock to change her mindset forever? Possibly.

Consider some of the environment. She says she thought you didn't love her or desire her, she wanted validation. So what did she do? Did she go on a dating website? Go to a singles bar? No, she chose a guy she work with, who she already had in her mind decided he was attractive and had a good personality. So this is what you look for. She won't be seeking out a stranger, but someone she sees regularly and develops a bond. A coworker, a guy at the gym, a personal trainer, etc.

She got caught 5 months ago. It's too short of a time period for her to have changed. Her former character matters, but her recent character is more important than her longer ago character. Her character changed, not completely, but enough to be so uncaring and negligent in willing to break her vows and lose her husband and stable family.

You know the signs and her modus operandi so you will see it quick if it ever happens again. Cheaters rarely break their patterns. You won't be too trusting next time to miss it or ignore it. 

There's no magic words or actions to fix this. It takes a couple years at least. It gets better but for most people it never fully goes away.

It takes time. You trusted her and now her actions made you reconsider and you no longer trust her. She must be trustworthy in word and deed, consistently, for a very long time. Trust is earned. She must continue earning it. This is the big picture. The little picture, what you need for that big picture, is up to you to determine and communicate it with her. 

I personally is not a fan of monitoring her behavior. I personally have an image of myself, a standard, that if I have to monitor my wife so she doesn't screw other guys, I'd rather just leave. If that's what she wants, let her go to it and I'm out. Again, you've seen what it looks like, they don't change, and you'll figure it out monitoring or not. I personally find the monitoring to be a huge hit to my self esteem.


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## TAMAT

thedope wrote, *Agreed, he just continues to justify rug sweeping anyway. Being in this site willdo him no good. *

I don't agree with that, it already has done some good, even if it only made him feel less alone and singled out and that his WWs affair was not unique or special. 

It has done good in that he feels he has someplace to go to talk, most people have no one they can share being cheated on with!

Tamat


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## Clay2013

Wow. I feel for you. I think the one thing you need to tell yourself and be honest about it. If she does it again you only have yourself to blame. You knew. You supported her. You never put things on the line or gave her good consequences for her actions. This next one will be on you. 

It sucks but we all have to learn the hard way sometimes. I know I did. 

Good luck.

C


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## oldtruck

TRy said:


> This is you rationalizing giving your wife a 2nd chance by falsely saying that affairs “happen in 80% of marriages”. In other words everyone does it so it is no big deal. Serious studies do not support this 80% number. The real number is not even close. Studies show that one or both partners in a marriage will be involved in infidelity in approximately 1/3rd of marriages, so most marriages do not have infidelity. Also, studies show the the wife has been involved in infidelity in approximately 20% of marriages, meaning 80% of wives have not been. What the data does support is that if a partner has an affair once, they are more likely to have one again. Give her a 2nd chance if you want, but please be honest with yourself when you do it.


I never heard 80% of marriages have an affair.
Though 78% of marriages do not end because there was an affair.


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## thedope

Clay2013 said:


> Wow. I feel for you. I think the one thing you need to tell yourself and be honest about it. If she does it again you only have yourself to blame. You knew. You supported her. You never put things on the line or gave her good consequences for her actions. This next one will be on you.
> 
> It sucks but we all have to learn the hard way sometimes. I know I did.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> C


This is a fair assessment. Still not to late to be smarter than Clay. I doubt youlll change your mind but even Clay wants you to be smarter than him in this situation. 

We all hope you don't have to learn the hard way. But unfortunately most people do.

All I have left to say is good luck.


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## Windwalker

MenDontCry said:


> If anyone out there thinks that it's impossible for their spouse to have an affair they are as delusional as I was when I thought it couldn't happen to me.


Not at all. I am fully aware of what another human being is capable of, even the ones that are supposed to be the most trusted individuals in our lives, spouses, and parents.

The difference is that some of us are prepared for it and have the balls to follow through, and force the consequences/devastation, whatever you want to call it.


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## Chaparral

Did you check into the newer treatments for PTSD? I think it’s called EMDR therapy and many people here have reported great results. The second thing you need to do is have both of you in good counseling. Come back here and tell us what is going on in both your counseling sessions. Unfortunately, some counselors are worse than none. You will have to keep trying until you both have good honest counselors. 

Both of you need to read NOT JUST FRIENDS and LOVE MUST BE TOUGH. You need to read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. These books cover different topics but you two are in great need of a plan and help is out there if you don’t get lazy. 

You two can make it but back sliding is everyone’s weakness. Folks here are trying to protect you but some are a bit over aggressive. It’s you and your wife’s life. Only the two of you can fix this but it takes work and TIME.


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## TDSC60

It all comes down to what you want going forward.


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## farsidejunky

MenDontCry said:


> 1: what would be the purpose of doing that?
> 
> 2: Your job is not her job. You understand how your company communication systems work and I understand how her company communications work. Her IT department and rules are not the same as your companies IT department and rules. I'm a network engineer. I pay my mortgage due to network security or lack-thereof. I have this part of the situation under control. I'm not going to go into how I know this but there are methods and people that werent in place before that are there now.
> 
> 3: 40 miles with the traffic in our city might as well be a different state. The affair is over. Being worried that the affair is still ongoing isn't why I'm here.


Can an alcoholic quit drinking by taking sips every other day, or every day?

This is no different.

You are lying to yourself, brother.


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