# Can single and married women be friends?



## Yohanna (Jul 2, 2014)

So, I am a single woman in my early 30's and most of my girlfriends are already married with children. I've lost touch with them since they got married, as they suddenly stopped talking to me and inviting me to things. It seems that now they prefer to hang out and do stuff with other couples rather than socialising with single women.

I tried to reach them and invite them, but they always say that they can't or give a lame excuse to not hang out with me. Now I would understand that since they are married with children their priorities have changed, I'd be glad to just do some family-friendly stuff or just go to their house, lunch, or going somewhere with the kids around like parks etc.. If it depended on me we would still be friends but they cut me out of their lives..

So I was wondering if its possible for married moms and single women be friends? Is it a problem for you married women to be friends with single girls? Any married mom here is friends with single women?


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## jessielee1 (Apr 7, 2014)

That's a really good topic, I myself am 32 and getting married in 3 months. All of my GF's are not married or even engaged. My fiance is very very forgiving of me and he understands that I like to take-off and do fun things with my girlfriends still, which may or may not include going dancing at a bar even.
We don't have children, so I definitely know things do change once you have kids. I still think it's important to have "me" time and some days I will want to leave the kids with a babysitter or my hubby and go out with the girls. Having kids shouldn't mean your life changes forever, but that's just my opinion and I'm a party girl at heart 

Your friends may be different, or heck maybe I will think differently when I actually have children, but I do know from my fiance's friends who all recently had children he rarely sees them anymore  They become so busy with work, home, wife/kids and don't seem to make the time for guy's nights much these days. We find ourselves hanging out with our single / non-married friends together in a group, or individually doing things with our non married friends. The friends who all have kids all now seem to hang with their married friends who also have kids and do baby play dates.

I love children and personally would love if my fiance's friends came over WITH their kids to hang out and drink or do something fun. It doesn't bother me that we don't have kids, I'd still love to see them and the kids! We have even invited them to our cottage and said bring the kids! They never come lol.....
I think it's a parent mentality? Maybe they think they are no fun and burdening people with their kids. It sucks


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sure they can!  One of my best friends is single, but has children. We never hang out with our children though.

I was friends for a long time with a single girl. I was single too but i had a 2 year old. Didn't matter. She and I were tight.

I don't know what your friends' problems are. Maybe it's not so much about them being married/with children ...maybe they don't go out often. Maybe their house is a mess. Maybe they are broke.

I dunno. I'd love for someone to come bug me and share a pot of coffee while I do stupid chores around the house. lol.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

People without kids may not understand that what they think is a "lame excuse" is not actually a lame excuse. For example, I often have to schedule plans around my toddler's nap time. I can tell that my single friends don't really believe me that this can possibly important enough to schedule plans around, because they've never dealt with a toddler who missed her nap. It's the same thing with bedtime -- toddlers go to bed early, and they can't just "stay up late" the way adults can. I mean they can, but it makes everyone's life miserable.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

To me, it's not so much whether my friends are married or not, but rather the kids are the block to spending time together. For one thing, apparently every waking moment for a child must be centered on an activity, so it can be hard for parents to schedule time for just grown up friends. I'd frankly rather remove my internal organs one by one with a spork than be forced to try to have an adult conversation in a place that has a)bouncy castles; b)lessons involving uniforms or costumes; or c)coloring pages on the table and/or balloons and lollipops. 

So we tend to plan grown up parties to get together for girl time. We've been doing accessory exchange parties for a while now. Everyone brings an item they just aren't so into anymore and we "shop" around the dining room table. Anything not snagged gets donated to Dress for Success at the end of the afternoon. We have snacks and wine and it's a great, low-key time.

We also plan get aways. Daddy gets his golf/hunting trips and Mommy and Auntie Gypsy get a week at a spa!

It's just a matter of finding new ways to carve out time together.

Oh, and I've found it's hopeless to even try to speak to people with kids until they're in at least half-day school. Powers of comprehensible speech and free time disappear for the first 3- 4 years of a child's life. You just have to give them a pass for that period of time...reconnect when a modicum of sanity returns


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

_Can single and married women be friends?_

Yes.



Yohanna said:


> I tried to reach them and invite them, but they always say that they can't or give a lame excuse to not hang out with me.


If you ask someone to hang out multiple times and they always bail or say they can't, stop asking them to hang out.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

John Lee said:


> People without kids may not understand that what they think is a "lame excuse" is not actually a lame excuse.


Some married people do not have kids. This is about her asking out people to hang out and they keep bailing on her, whether they have children or not.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Of course they can. The challenge comes in being mindful that what single women might like to do for fun might not in all cases be appropriate for married women to share in.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What kind of women do you think we hang out with, Phil? lmao.

My single women friends are all in their late 30s/early 40s and no longer bar hoppin.

I think we women can decide what is appropriate or not for us.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

that_girl said:


> I think we women can decide what is appropriate or not for us.


Did I say you couldn't?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Her question was more personal too than just the title. Did you read it?

I think it goes deeper than her friends being married/having children. They don't want to ever hang out...and if they were good friends, why would that be?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Some married people do not have kids. This is about her asking out people to hang out and they keep bailing on her, whether they have children or not.


Actually her OP said "married with children."


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Philat said:


> Of course they can. The challenge comes in being mindful that what single women might like to do for fun might not in all cases be appropriate for married women to share in.


Being adults many of us tend to down play this and he fact that transferrences from the group will occur. So it's just some people you can't be around that often.

Plus singles are always trying to convince a married that they need to think more about themself, when the married might need to be mindful of their partner.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

It's possible in some cases. Maybe in your case they feel like they don't have anything in common with you anymore? Or they feel awkward if you talk about dating issues/boyfriend stuff bc they aren't having those experiences anymore?


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## Yohanna (Jul 2, 2014)

John Lee said:


> People without kids may not understand that what they think is a "lame excuse" is not actually a lame excuse. For example, I often have to schedule plans around my toddler's nap time. I can tell that my single friends don't really believe me that this can possibly important enough to schedule plans around, because they've never dealt with a toddler who missed her nap. It's the same thing with bedtime -- toddlers go to bed early, and they can't just "stay up late" the way adults can. I mean they can, but it makes everyone's life miserable.


I've been babysitting small children for years, so I understand it's not that easy to take care of children as they demand too much of their parents. I am very comprehensive and I don't expect my friends to come with me to nightclubs and night parties now that are married and have small babies to look after. But I'd be happy if they invited at least once a month to visit them or even if they invited me to a park even to just see their children playing and running around. But they don't seem interested. 
However, they often hang out and even travel with the other girls of our circle of friends who are married with children. So I do believe I am no longer interesting for them as they don't feel connected with me or they feel like we don't have some common ground. I believe they think that hanging out with other couples is more interesting for them now. So I was wondering if that's just with my friends or if it happens to everyone who gets married and have children. That's what I want to know from married people here.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

A lot of married women see single women as a threat. At least that's what I've sometimes read here. Too many stories of the husband cheating w/the single friend.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

All depends upon the people

I'm single - and a good deal of my friends are married.

I would never in a million years ever go after anyone's husband PERIOD!!

Depends upon how secure one's relationship is.....lotsa snakes out there in both genders


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It's possible in some cases. Maybe in your case they feel like they don't have anything in common with you anymore? Or they feel awkward if you talk about dating issues/boyfriend stuff bc they aren't having those experiences anymore?


If your married with single friends, invite your husband/wife to some of the outings and also invite the single into some of your get togethers at the house.

It's a problem when the single divides the relationship, and convinces the married that the single way is more exciting.

If the single refuses to come into your world, then they are really inviting you into the single life and laughing your back the entire way. That's how these situations play out.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Unique Username said:


> All depends upon the people
> 
> I'm single - and a good deal of my friends are married.


And to add to that, sometimes when the singles hang out with the marrieds, they are reminded of why they are happy they aren't themselves married.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sounds like something else could be going on?

My wife and I have never repulsed single friends that have been supportive of our marriage and family. We are friends with all ages as well.

We have been friends with a much younger man who is probably my best friend for years.

I met him when he was 19 and I was 33. He loved being around my family and we have remained friends throughout his marriage and the beginning of his family, he is married with a 2 year old now.

As long as there is respect for marriage and family, I wholeheartedly support singles being friends with married couples and around their children. It is a great way to grow and share and learn.

I wonder if OP could have a heart to heart with one of her married friends and express her hurt over the situation and find out what is going on?:scratchhead:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> And to add to that, sometimes when the singles hang out with the marrieds, they are reminded of why they are happy they aren't themselves married.


They can't understand why people want to be so close and share their lives.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Plus singles are *always* trying to convince a married that they need to think more about themself, when the married might need to be mindful of their partner.



That's a bit extreme. My single friends don't downplay my relationship or try to get me to think only about myself.

I think the people you choose to hang with is the key. If I had friends like that, we wouldn't be friends.

I think the OPs problem is that her friends just may not be her friends anymore.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

treyvion said:


> If your married with single friends, invite your husband/wife to some of the outings and also invite the single into some of your get togethers at the house.


The thread topic is abut the exact opposite of this situation. 



treyvion said:


> It's a problem when the single divides the relationship, and convinces the married that the single way is more exciting.


Yes, because all single people do this. They are evil. Evil I say! 



treyvion said:


> If the single refuses to come into your world, then they are really inviting you into the single life and laughing your back the entire way. That's how these situations play out.


DAMN THOSE SINGLE PEOPLE. They are laughing at you! 

Again, thread topic isn't about this situation. And if the married keeps blowing off their "supposed" friend off, then they suck as a friend. Married or not. 

But that


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> A lot of married women see single women as a threat. At least that's what I've sometimes read here. Too many stories of the husband cheating w/the single friend.


I can see this.

I don't have any friends like that though. We don't hang out here. We go out to get away from our "heres". lol. Coffee and a smoke and a couple hours to bullsh1t in a bubble all our own.

OMG I need a night like that soon.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

treyvion said:


> They can't understand why people want to be so close and share their lives.


Or maybe they just don't want to be married and realize it has no appeal for them.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

treyvion said:


> They can't understand why people want to be so close and share their lives.


lol Yea. Cause marriage is always so awesome.

If i was single and came here to read stories, I'd be happy I wasn't married.

As it is, I'm part of the club


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think it matters too if the single has ever been married.

My BFF (love her!) was married. Now she's not. She has no bitterness towards marriage. She has bitterness for her cheating man though  

If my friend was single in her mid 30s (like we are), and never married, no kids...I would wonder what all we'd have time to do together. She could still be looking to find someone to date whereas when I go out, I want some quiet, good coffee, a smoke and maybe something sweet. lol!

However, in this case, the OPs friends just sounds like they don't want to hang out with her, in which case the OP should either talk to them or write them off. People grow and change and sometimes it's not for the better.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I love how people who are part of a certain "lifestyle choice club" like marriage or parenthood just assume everyone is chomping at the bit to be part of that club. LOL


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Or maybe they just don't want to be married and realize it has no appeal for them.


True. They may just rather be single and not worry about someone else.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I love how people who are part of a certain "lifestyle choice club" like marriage or parenthood just assume everyone is chomping at the bit to be part of that club. LOL


Nope. Just like single and childless can't understand the married and/or with kids "club". They think they are wasting their life or being limited...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

that_girl said:


> lol Yea. Cause marriage is always so awesome.


A good majority of the time it is not, either because one of them is trying to be single while married, or just not considering the others needs and making it all about them.



that_girl said:


> If i was single and came here to read stories, I'd be happy I wasn't married.


I'm starting to feel the same way. If your single at least your sexless because you haven't done anything about it. If your treated bad it's cause you allow yourself to be and won't stop messing with that person. So single does have an appeal over locked into a bad or degrading situation.



that_girl said:


> As it is, I'm part of the club


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Yohanna said:


> I've been babysitting small children for years, so I understand it's not that easy to take care of children as they demand too much of their parents. I am very comprehensive and I don't expect my friends to come with me to nightclubs and night parties now that are married and have small babies to look after. But I'd be happy if they invited at least once a month to visit them or even if they invited me to a park even to just see their children playing and running around. But they don't seem interested.
> However, they often hang out and even travel with the other girls of our circle of friends who are married with children. So I do believe I am no longer interesting for them as they don't feel connected with me or they feel like we don't have some common ground. I believe they think that hanging out with other couples is more interesting for them now. So I was wondering if that's just with my friends or if it happens to everyone who gets married and have children. That's what I want to know from married people here.


I'd suggest expanding your social circle. Sometimes friendships run their course. That's okay. 

I'm curious what your common ground was with your friends prior to their family life? Do you still feel that you could have common ground with them? Have you expressed any of this to a friend?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I catch up with girlfriends one-on-one as well as in a group. Single or married, doesn't matter so long as we vibe. A couple of friends were single for years and then entered relationships - it didn't change our friendship. Our common ground was our outlook on life. Friendships do drift though. 

We don't have children. With friends that do have children, occasionally plans are cancelled last minute, but things happen. No biggie. Often our friends with kids prefer to have people over for dinner so the kids are there. I'll admit we have previously tended to hang more with couples who don't have children.

Single friend with a young daughter (lives in another city) is coming to stay with hubs and I soon for a vacation. Last time they visited we had a blast. Granted as non-children folk, we were exhausted by the end of the week. Her daughter who was 6, wanted to put on a dance-show. Her and I connected over that. I got out my costume box and she was donned in feather boas, dancing her little heart out to Abba lol. This dance-show was a few hours in the making. The 'stage' was the space at the foot of our bed. She decided to decorate the stage with leaves from outside. She was very selective with the music options. It was serious business. Meanwhile my friend was loving the break and chilling in the front room with glass of wine in hand lol. When the star was ready, we all sat on our bed and watched her show. She ended up getting over-excited and afterwards declared it a 'naked bum party' as she stripped off and ran through the house in fits of laughter. The daughter that is, not my friend. I can't wait to see them again!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

heartsbeating said:


> I'd suggest expanding your social circle. Sometimes friendships run their course. That's okay.
> 
> I'm curious what your common ground was with your friends prior to their family life? Do you still feel that you could have common ground with them? Have you expressed any of this to a friend?


Your right. And it can pick back up 5 or 10 years later or never.

So if the information has told you it's run it's course, then accept it.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Why is Teryvon arguing his point so vehemently?

OP simply was asking what might be on the married friends minds. Then it went way off track.

OP

I would do as Hearts suggested. Expand your circle of friends.

The marrieds may just not have enough left in common with you and are very busy raising kids and all that schtuff.

Don't take it too personally (although I know it's hard not to) 
I am sure it isn't YOU - it is just the circumstance.

I'd find like minded people who enjoy whatever you do on your time off. Natural to change groups of friends at different periods/circumstance in one's life.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Personal said:


> I suppose they do, although that doesn't mean all do. My wife is not threatened by her single female friends or my single female friends.


That's why I said "A lot" instead of "All married women..."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Nope. Just like single and childless can't understand the married and/or with kids "club". They think they are wasting their life or being limited...


Not all singles and childless "can't understand" marriage - many singles have been married. Also, many childless are married. As for sex, many singles have way more sex than some marrieds (sexless marriages). 

One size does not fit all. 

I don't get the hatred towards the single people that some married folks have. It's truly strange. Projecting?

Although this got way super off-topic.

Real friends like to hang out and seek each other out and don't bail on each other time after time. OP, recognize this.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

there is a site called Meetup where local people post things happening. Check it out...just about any interest topic is available...from kayaking, book clubs, mushroom picking. When you are doing stuff, the actual age of the people do not matter as much. A 60 year old woman can kayak almost as long as a 20 year old one!


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

> Can single and married women be friends?


Yes, as long as the single women don't try to take the married women out partying and get them to act as if they are single. Same in reverse with the men.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Yes, as long as the single women don't try to take the married women out partying and get them to act as if they are single. Same in reverse with the men.


How are they not going to convince them just to have a little fun and enjoy life?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Thread theme: SINGLE WOMEN ARE EVIL.

Got it.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Thread theme: SINGLE WOMEN ARE EVIL.
> 
> Got it.


Well, we've all got to have our talents now, don't we? :smthumbup:


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

treyvion said:


> How are they not going to convince them just to have a little fun and enjoy life?


They can do that without trying to act single. Its real simple.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

meh.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

COGypsy said:


> Well, we've all got to have our talents now, don't we? :smthumbup:


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## lifeisbetterthanalternat (Apr 24, 2012)

I think they can but there are challenges. Perhaps you are missinterpreting her "lame" excuses. Sometime single folks can't quite appreciate the time constraints of people with kids. Granted if your friend has resources (is a full time sam, has help (grandparents or nanny's etc or other time savers..._) they may have more time available...nonetheless....

For example I have 3 kids and have had like 10 dates with my wife in the past 10 years. when people with kids used to say "i don't have time to "play sports, watch tv ...whatever...it was hard for me to fathom. sometimes it is hard to make (or rationalize) time with your friend when you barely have time for your spouse. Unfortunately, when your friend said "I do" both she and her husband vowed to make eachother (and now their kids too) their top priority. 

The other thing to keep in mind is that you no longer share the same experiences. You may be the greatest friend in the world but unfortunately you no longer have as much in common with her as her other friends with children. 

Marriage has its pluses and minuses.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Did you see these friend post marriage and children and then you stooped hanging out? If so, maybe you unknowingly said things that offended your friends? 

My sister has said she doesn't want kids. She lives a very free life and she talks about how easy and free her life is, how she pursues her passions. There is nothing wrong at all with doing that except that she feigns interest in what us moms talk about. She sends a signal, I think without meaning to, that he has the better life and ours is dull by comparison.

Could something like that have happened?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Yes, but as any friendship, they have to be friends of your marriage.

If friend likes to play, let them and don't engage or go to places where they do that or try to meet people to do that.

And even if you do it's fine, but remember that it's risky and in time it can and will effect your marriage.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Yes.. they can be friends... 

I had 2 single girlfriends.. throughout our marriage... well a few more but 2 close single girlfriends... ... one was on the wild side (husband was not crazy about her..always meeting new men, some off Craig's list... we never knew who we might go out to eat with) and the other was a Church goer...known them both since high school...

I was closer with the Church Goer...our kids played together.. she treated us all like family.... The wild one sent the church goer a reject date..and they ended up married .... and I was her Matron of Honor last year... so now she's no longer single..


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

DoF said:


> Yes, but as any friendship, they have to be friends of your marriage.


Best way I've heard it put yet. :smthumbup:


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## Quantmflux (Feb 6, 2013)

IMO the answer is "of course they can", but more to the OPs core point, things wont necessarily stay the same.

For us, as the kid has gotten older, both of us have just sort of decoupled a bit from our single friends. It's not deliberate, it's just that once you have kids (and the key here is the kids part IMO, not the marriage part) your life changes a lot.

Examples... schools have social functions that extend into your private life. So do extracurricular activities. As your kids make friends, you probably want to know their parents fairly well (and they generally want to know you). The list of "stuff" is endless. Playdates, block parties, bday parties... on and on. All very kid related. Nothing any (sane) single person would want to be anywhere near 

Also, you likely want to live in an area based on schools. These areas tend to be *pretty damn boring* for single people! So usually some distance comes into play.

All of our single friends still live in "the city" whereas we're now out "in the burbs"

What can you do... life happens. But IMO if you're *real* friends to begin with its just more about logistics than anything else.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

My closest friend and I got together 13 years ago just when my first marriage was collapsing and she had been married for one year to her partner of 8 years.

It's been a good relationship and now I am back to married again but without children.

I think I have been sensitive to her needs. I usually go to her place. Schedule phone calls in advance -- we have a habit of chewing the fat for about an hour, so.....

I still have single friends as does she. One thing I learned to be careful from my first marriage is that "friend" who always insists that your husband comes but who never seems to have a date herself. 

I have broken that rule since I thought of it.... but without regret. so that just means you have to apply rules on a case by case basis.

My feeling with married friends is that you have to be sensitive to their free time needs. I now have two families to visit and cater to than just one. And of course friends with children, who then have 3 families to cater to if they are married. 

And of single parents, well, the kids can be demanding enough. I think there will come a time when the parents will want to become adults again and will learn proper boundaries with their children. So everyone in their own time.........


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

My short answer would be that yes they can so long as you live close enough together. What happened with most of my single friends is that they moved downtown Toronto (3 suburban cities away from me). It's at least an hour to hour-and-a-half commute whether you drive or take the train so I just don't see those girls too much outside of FB anymore. Balancing everyone's schedules - theirs, mine, my spouse and my children just makes it a no-go 90% of the time. However our mutual close friend (now single) that stayed here, well we're still close because the logistics just make it easier.


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## homedepot (May 13, 2014)

Yohanna said:


> So, I am a single woman in my early 30's and most of my girlfriends are already married with children. I've lost touch with them since they got married, as they suddenly stopped talking to me and inviting me to things. It seems that now they prefer to hang out and do stuff with other couples rather than socialising with single women.
> 
> I tried to reach them and invite them, but they always say that they can't or give a lame excuse to not hang out with me. Now I would understand that since they are married with children their priorities have changed, I'd be glad to just do some family-friendly stuff or just go to their house, lunch, or going somewhere with the kids around like parks etc.. If it depended on me we would still be friends but they cut me out of their lives..
> 
> So I was wondering if its possible for married moms and single women be friends? Is it a problem for you married women to be friends with single girls? Any married mom here is friends with single women?


Funny you mention that. My wife lost all her single/long term relationship friends real quick.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Thread theme: SINGLE WOMEN ARE EVIL.
> 
> Got it.


My single friend and her daughter have since visited. She commented a couple of times about attractive waiters, and hoped the doctor that her daughter had to see, was cute... I told her I was married and could not be exposed to such concepts!

 ....I of course, kid. 

Disappointingly for her, the doctor was a woman. It was so great seeing her. We just pick up as though no time has passed. And lots of cuddles and laughter shared with her daughter.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Thread theme: SINGLE WOMEN ARE EVIL.
> 
> Got it.


No. Like someone already said, single women and married women, and vice versa with men, being friends and hanging out doing stuff is fine. But those single friends need to also be a friend of the marriage and refrain from getting the married friend from acting like he/she is single.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

vellocet said:


> No. Like someone already said, single women and married women, and vice versa with men, being friends and hanging out doing stuff is fine. But those single friends need to also be a friend of the marriage and refrain from getting the married friend from acting like he/she is single.


This is the key!!!

While in a marriage, it's person responsibility to make sure they surround themselves with proper people and proper environment.

Hanging out with friends that are cheaters and have 0 respect for you and your marriage.........and are not your relationships "friends" = deadly combination

Going to Clubs/bars etc with those people = certain death to marriage (in time).

I don't care how "strong" or disciplined a person might be.

EVERYONE becomes part of the environment they are around....by default


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