# At an impasse. Don't know where to go. Please help.



## cdaniel76 (Jan 16, 2013)

So I know it's usually the other way around but I'm in an affection-less marriage. It's affected our lives and my life in so many ways and we've gotten to the point where I don't know what to do. 

AND I'M THE GUY!!!!!

Some background. I'm 36, she's 35. We met almost 7 years ago in 2006. Have been married since Nov. 2008. Have 1 child who's 3 and another on the way, due in June. I love her and she loves me and that has never been a question until now. I just don't know if I have any more love to give and not have it returned. 

She's a Christian girl, raised in a strong, but not fanatical Christian household. The oldest of 4 daughters. Her Mother and Father are wonderful people. They love their children and their spouses and grandchildren more than anything. However, and even my wife will admit this, her parents are not affectionate to each other and have never been that way. At times, they seem cold to one another. I've seen occasional glimpses of affection between them on special occasions but in every day, normal life you can just "feel" the separation between them that seems to be caused by lack of affection. 

It seems as though my wife is the same way. I firmly believe that she just doesn't know any better. She doesn't know how to show affection. This is not about sex, although that's a whole other issue. It's been like this since nearly the beginning of our relationship. Early on, while we were still learning about one another things were really good. Within a couple months I could see that she was not showing me as much affection as I was showing her. I chalked that up to just taking her time to open up. She was hurt pretty bad in her previous long term relationship. So I tried to give it some time but it didn't seem to change much. We actually split up for a couple months over the constant "distance" that I kept feeling from her. We got back together and things were a little better but they never got to where I felt my emotional needs were being met. But, love is a mysterious thing and I didn't want to let her go. She moved in with me and I had hoped that might move things along better but unfortunately that didn't help. Got engaged and still no changes. Even after several conversations with her that included me asking her to be more affectionate with me. 

Eventually we got married even though I was still seeking that affection that she just doesn't seem to be able to give. So here we are with a 3 yr old and another on the way and our marriage is on the brink of failure. 6+ years of asking, begging and sometimes pleading through tears for her to SHOW me she loves me, not just say it. I've been whittled down to a sad, depressed, mad, resentful and hateful person. I'm lazy. I'm inactive. I'm just blank. I don't help around the house. I don't help with our son. I don't do anything anymore that a husband should be doing. I just have no motivation to do anything. My health has suffered. I've gained so much weight. I lack all discipline and motivation to change anything about it either. So all of this only adds to her lack of motivation to be affectionate OR intimate, and I can't say I blame her. 

We tried counseling about a year ago. I chose to stop going after explaining my needs in every session only to be told by the therapist that I needed to fix my issues and was even prescribed depression meds. The last two sessions literally felt like a "gang up" on me between my wife and the therapist. I just can't understand how my wife, nor the therapist could not see how my depression was directly related to my affection and intimacy needs not being met for the past 6 years and in order for me to start feeling happier and want to be more active in all aspects of our lives that I needed to start FEELING love from my wife. But no... Here's a prescription for some meds, sir. Take these and we'll see how you feel from there. The meds helped a little bit. I felt less sad and depressed, but the factors that lead to that sadness and depression had not changed. I was still stuck in the same love-less marriage. After a while, even the drugs didn't seem to help so I stopped taking them and we haven't actively tried to solve our issues since then. 

We don't talk anymore. It seems as if nearly all of our communication these days consists of her fussing and complaining to me that I don't help her with our son or with the house or anything else. I hear what she's saying. I know what she wants me to do. I used to do it all before when she first moved in. Laundry, dishes, cleaning, mopping, sweeping... I did it all and helped her all the time. Now, I just don't care anymore. Even throughout all this, I would still try to be flirty and intimate and affectionate with her from time to time. But she's just as frustrated in our relationship due to me now being shut down and not doing anything anymore. So my advances are practically ignored. Most of the time just brushed aside with a "stop it". None of my flirts or affections are ever returned. 

The most depressing and sad thing about this all is how uninterested I am in my son's life or in the fact that we have another baby on the way. I don't do anything with my son. I'm so overweight and lazy that I can't enjoy outdoor activities, even if I felt like doing that. And I could literally not be any less excited about a new baby coming. If anything, I'm mad about it because if the way I feel now doesn't change, I will not be in a state of mind to bring a kid into this world. 

I'm at my wits end. We had a heated discussion tonight that lead to nothing. Just more "You don't do anything around here" from her and more "Please give me some kind of motivation to WANT to do something around here" from me. 

Please help.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You are very depressed. No, meds alone are not the answer. However, with therapy, the correct antidepressant CAN help you. 

Your children are a miracle and they are a gift. I don't think your lack of interest is due to you being a crummy guy. I think your lack of interest and weight gain are due to depression.

Please, please, please .... for the sake of your wife, your marriage, your children, and yourself - find a good counselor. Try as many antidepressants as you need to in order to get your emotions level.

You can't "feel" love from your wife or anyone else until you can love yourself. Chances are she has cut herself off from you emotionally, in part, because of your depressed indifference.

I don't think this is a matter of placing blame. Your wife has her own issues. She owns those. They are on her side of the street. Get back on your side of the street and tend to your own problems first.

Then, go forth and tackle the other stuff. You simply cannot face it until you get help for yourself.


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## cdaniel76 (Jan 16, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> You are very depressed. No, meds alone are not the answer. However, with therapy, the correct antidepressant CAN help you.
> 
> Your children are a miracle and they are a gift. I don't think your lack of interest is due to you being a crummy guy. I think your lack of interest and weight gain are due to depression.
> 
> ...


How can a person work on their issues, when their issue is caused by their spouse not holding up their end of a deal? What you're telling me to do is to do all that I can do to make myself happy, but the only thing that will make me happy right now is a loving wife. Meds for me, aren't going to change the environment that I'm living in now. It's not a healthy environment for my state of mind. When all that a person is yearning for is to FEEL LOVED yet he doesn't get that. How are drugs going to help that? Yes, they may make him FEEL less sad or depressed but this does not change the reality that I'm living in a love-less marriage?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I strongly encourage you to read Chapman's book and see if you can't find a couple of small goals each of you could do each day in the other person's love language.

I believe if you can start with just a few minutes daily of speaking the other's love language, the two of you may be able to find a path to intimacy that will re-open the doors to affection and admiration.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

cdaniel76 said:


> How can a person work on their issues, when their issue is caused by their spouse not holding up their end of a deal?


Nope. That doesn't float. Period. Your hapiness is not contingent on your spouse. Hapiness is an INSIDE deal. Sure, you can be unhappy about your wife's behavior. BUT ... and this is the important point ... you can be happy REGARDLESS of what your wife is doing. Trust me. I've lived through some of the most miserable crap you can imagine. I'm not unhappy. Perplexed at times? Absolutely. Wondering why the heck my marriage was a crazy-making situation? Sure. But I'm happy INSIDE OF MY OWN SKIN. My husband didn't hold up his end of the deal. His life. His choice.




cdaniel76 said:


> What you're telling me to do is to do all that I can do to make myself happy, but the only thing that will make me happy right now is a loving wife.


Precisely. You are wrong. I'm sorry, but the road to emotional health is not based on having our expectations met by other people. Nobody, including your wife, is responsible for your hapiness.

What did you do before you met her? Mope around feeling depressed? Did you get involved with her thinking that would make you happy? If so, you are learning that other people cannot make you happy. 

Give love. Give it abundantly and freely. Will she reciprocate? Maybe so. Maybe not. But when we give love without expectations of getting anything in return, we receive the greatest gift of all. Think about it.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

cdaniel76 said:


> Please help.


And, P.S. - You posted here for help. You may not like the advice you receive, but don't toss the baby out with the bath water. Consider what you are reading. Did you come here for people to agree with you or to give your their perspective?


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## cdaniel76 (Jan 16, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> But I'm happy INSIDE OF MY OWN SKIN. My husband didn't hold up his end of the deal. His life. His choice.


Can I ask how this turned out for your marriage?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

It sounds like she didn't meet your needs before you got married & putting a ring on it didn't magically change her into the kind of person you really need. She also knows she can't meet your needs, so she is at fault as well for your seriously unhealthy marriage.

You can't change another person, only yourself. Maybe look for another marriage counselor.

Again, if you are clinically depressed, it is NOT your wife's fault. Depression is a serious mental illness that is treatable. Blaming having an illness on your wife is ridiculous.

I also think you need indivdual counseling to become a better Father. Being overweight & unhealthy is no excuse. You can do lots of indoor activties such as reading books, playing card games, etc. with your son.

Don't you realize when you have children, their needs are just as important as yours? Why did you get your wife pregnant if you don't even want your unborn child?

I can tell by your responses to other posters that you are looking for some empathy here & believe me, I DO empathize with your situation. It is horrible to not get your needs met by your spouse.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

cdanial

There was a time that I was in a very low point in my life as well. Looking back, I realize that there was probably some depression involved... maybe, maybe not... Regardless, what other posters have said is true: Happiness is inside of you. You have to find it. Get back to therapy. Get some help. 

I hate to be blunt, but your wife needs a partner right now. One that is a father. Wallowing in self- doubt, self- loathing, and pity, is only increasing the decline. You doubt her love, and maybe you should, but she willingly participated in your therapy in an obvious attempt to help you.

You can find your way out of this, but it has to start within YOU. If you want to change yourself or your marriage- it begins inside of you.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

You are never going to be happy if you put that much importance on another human being to "make " you happy.If you need your wife to "motivate" you to take care of your self and to show interest and love towards your children especially that indicates you are far to reliant on her for a motivator to engage in LIFE in general.And also being that emotionally needy and dependent on your spouse to be able to even function properly is a very unnatractive state of being for many many women (and men) so you are actually sabotaging or making it less likely your wife will be drawn to you .Its very hard to respect someone who relies on YOU for their own "self respect" and to to be motivated to engage in many areas of life.

I agree with others too blaming her for your extreme depression and lack of interest in the world around you is wrong.Many spouses can have areas of desire to feel loved that aren't met 100% and they don't give up and crawl into a corner and curl up in a ball and ignore their children and stop taking care of themselves and basically sounds like go into paralysis.If you are that depressed its more to do with you than her in this circumstance.

What if because you aren't meeting her needs now to have a supportive co-parent for your children and domestic support she started saying she was depressed and just laid around doing nothing and ignoring your children?What if she stopped cooking and cleaning or working if she does and your children were being neglected and she blamed you for it and said because you weren't making her feel loved ?Who would be taking care of your children?Sorry probably a foster home.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Oh I also too empathise with you .I'm giving you the same advice I would expect others to give me.Its also this belief that keeps me from allowing myself to fall into the trap of putting my husband in that kind of power over me.I have to accept his limitations as just another human being that isn't responsible to make sure I'm happy all the time like he's some sort of God.Or that he controls my actions and emotions.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

cdaniel76 said:


> What you're telling me to do is to do all that I can do to make myself happy, but the only thing that will make me happy right now is a loving wife.





Prodigal said:


> Precisely. You are wrong. I'm sorry, but the road to emotional health is not based on having our expectations met by other people. Nobody, including your wife, is responsible for your hapiness.
> 
> What did you do before you met her? Mope around feeling depressed? Did you get involved with her thinking that would make you happy? If so, you are learning that other people cannot make you happy.
> 
> Give love. Give it abundantly and freely. Will she reciprocate? Maybe so. Maybe not. But when we give love without expectations of getting anything in return, we receive the greatest gift of all. Think about it.


Prodigal, I've heard your rationalization many time from our MC. What I'm trying to figure out is how can we be wrong if we feel that what we want is a loving wife to be happy? You ask what we did before we met her? If I or my GF at the time was unhappy with a relationship it probably ended and I would go out in search of another relationship that would fulfill my needs. I probably like cdaniel do not want to end our marriage and find someone else, we want to be in a realationship with the woman that WE LOVE. That is what would make me happy. In the mean time, I live with the unhappiness, that is currently resulting from the lack of affection from my wife. This is the connundrum that I'm really trying to get a grasp on.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I think there is a difference in a spouse not contributing to your happiness or a spouse dissapointing you by not meeting 100% your needs and that gets you down and expecting your spouse to be the sole source of your happiness by meeting your needs so when they don't you completely give up on life.Just "exist"..stop taking care of your self and contributing nothing to the homelife and neglecting or having no interest even in your children's lives.That is WAY to much responsiblity to put on another person for your motivation to live life and its unreasonable and not realistic.There is a difference in some level of "interdependence' and complete dependence on your spouse to even care about YOUR SELF.

The goal should be to join each other in life not rely on one person as the reason to live at all.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

cdaniel76 said:


> Can I ask how this turned out for your marriage?


I'm still married. But, even better than that, I'm happy regardless of how my husband behaves.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

TryingandFrustrated said:


> Prodigal, I've heard your rationalization many time from our MC. What I'm trying to figure out is how can we be wrong if we feel that what we want is a loving wife to be happy?


Why not start your own thread about this. There is nothing wrong with wanting a loving spouse, a responsible spouse, a respectful spouse, etc. But we don't always get what we want, do we?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

So you have learned the hard way that marrying someone will not make them change. You knew before you married this woman that she did not meet your emotional needs for affection and you went through with it anyway. 

That said..I am in agreement with the other posters, in that only YOU are responsible for YOUR own happiness. You cannot make someone else resposible for this. I am seeing codependence in your posting. Please find a counselor for yourself. Your MC sounded terrible. Once you work on yourself to pull out of the funk you are in, with counseling and maybe meds, THEN you can start trying to work on things with your wife. I would suggest you BOTH read The 5 Love Languages, and His Needs, Her Needs. If she is not willing to meet your emotional needs and treat you like a partner, then you need to seriously consider ending things at that point.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Why not start your own thread about this. There is nothing wrong with wanting a loving spouse, a responsible spouse, a respectful spouse, etc. But we don't always get what we want, do we?


Because I was simply looking at the original question and your answer and it seemed that the OP and I were in the similar situations so I thought I'd try and see if we could expand on your response. Thanks for your helpful feedback and I'll leave this discussion now.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Yes there is a difference in someone trying to suck the joy out of your life stomping on your happiness .And expecting your spouse to create all happiness in this world for you .I can see if someone is reasonably self assured and enjoys life and wants to share that having a spouse that is hell bent on not letting you feel that because they are jealous you can and they cant.That I can even see causing this kind of reaction and even then its something you have to get back by yourself .But just not meeting all your needs for affection resulting in you not even caring for your self anymore is over the top.On top of you married her knowing you had this difference then tried to argue her into being different than she is when that doesn't work then you blame her you don't even care about your own children anymore?

Also I don't fault her for marrying you .Maybe she was under the impression since you still wanted to marry her you accepted that about her.

I know this can happen there are some differences in my husband and I he knew full well and good before marriage.He pushed for marriage in fact never once saying "after we marry I "expect" you to change this about you .I agreed to marry him and almost immediately he tried the "power play" of I'm your husband now you have to be like THIS!You are my WIFE you are "supposed to be" this way not the way you are.

I was young and dumb and never saw that coming at all.Knowing what I know now I would have said I will not marry you I can not satisfy you wouldn't be fair to you or me.But knowing him he would have convinced me somehow I was perfect for him.It sounds obvious now but one red flag at 45 I didn't pick up at 18.Is "if you marry me YOU will make ME the happiest man alive".Sounded romantic at the time..Meh...not so much now I didn't know he meant that litterally(as that was his entitlement) nor that it meant he expected I had to warp my personality and character to accomplish that..LOL>>


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The OP said: "Within a couple months I could see that she was not showing me as much affection as I was showing her. I chalked that up to just taking her time to open up."

So she was exactly as she is now, back then, and you married her anyway. Why should she change? She showed you exactly who she is and you married her knowing this.

I have never heard of anyone not being interested in a relationship with their own kids just to spite their spouse. I don't know why you expect your wife to love you or be affectionate with you when:

A. You know she isn't that way and you've known this since you were dating, and 

B. You don't have a relationship with your own children, and

C. You blame her for YOUR shortgivings


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

TryingandFrustrated said:


> Prodigal, I've heard your rationalization many time from our MC. What I'm trying to figure out is how can we be wrong if we feel that what we want is a loving wife to be happy? You ask what we did before we met her? If I or my GF at the time was unhappy with a relationship it probably ended and I would go out in search of another relationship that would fulfill my needs. I probably like cdaniel do not want to end our marriage and find someone else, we want to be in a realationship with the woman that WE LOVE. That is what would make me happy. In the mean time, I live with the unhappiness, that is currently resulting from the lack of affection from my wife. This is the connundrum that I'm really trying to get a grasp on.


I haven't finished catching up on the posts, but this one caught my eye. 

T&F and Cdaniels are raising a point I struggled with at times, too, but I have to say that Prodigal is right for the most part. Where it gets messy is that the points you guys raise are valid to a degree, too. There can be a "top down" or a "bottoms up" viewpoint to situations like this.

If I am in an unhappy marriage, and I _feel_ unhappy because of it, then it's true that I'll feel better if the marriage changes. (BOTTOM UP viewpoint)

On the other hand, I can't control or change other people, so it's practically guaranteed that I won't find a solution by seeking change in the marriage. It doesn't matter if I am clinically depressed or not... I will find myself being a less-than-ideal partner and the situation will continue to spiral downward. (TOP DOWN viewpoint).

But if I stop focusing on that, and instead, realize that I can shift my values and priorities in a way that lets me be happy no matter what is happening around me, then I will feel better. Once I feel better, I can also be a better partner without even trying, really, because I don't have resentment clouding my thoughts. 

I learned to see it this way: If I was unhappy because of someone else, I was giving them control over how I felt. Since they weren't making my feelings a priority, it's not a smart thing for me to do. It's far better for me to look after my own happiness in a way that does not give them so much power over how I feel. 

At the same time... I get the impression from the OP that they both do care, and want the marriage to be good, but do not speak each other's love languages. 

She appears to say, "I love you" and he doesn't feel loved by that. She wants more help around the house (acts of service) and she's feeling unloved because she's not getting it. If he spent a little time each day doing a couple of these kinds of things for her, she would likely feel more loved. If she spent a few minutes speaking his love language, whatever it is, he'd be less likely to feel unhappy. 

This is a BOTTOM UP approach. If cdaniels will use both the BOTTOM UP and TOP DOWN (working on finding ways to be happy separately from his marriage) then I think he'll find terrific results.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I have never heard of anyone not being interested in a relationship with their own kids just to spite their spouse.


This is not an uncommon response. We see it all the time with absentee parents. It's a self-protective mechanism that keeps them from risking too much pain if those children are lost to him forever because of divorce, alienation, etc.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> This is not an uncommon response. We see it all the time with absentee parents. It's a self-protective mechanism that keeps them from risking too much pain if those children are lost to him forever because of divorce, alienation, etc.


I can see how it happens .But its the wrong way to handle things and needs to be encouraged as a "what not to do".The damage it can cause the child far outweighs any risk of pain the adult is afraid of.If anything you are more at risk of losing them that way than what you are afraid will cause it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

But he is NOT an absentee parent.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> But he is NOT an absentee parent.


Physically, no. Emotionally, he's getting there. I have no idea if his lack of interaction is because of what I described above, though. I was simply responding to your statement that you had never heard of a parent becoming disinterested to spite their spouse, because I think that it's a common event, but not necessarily to spite a spouse. I was not trying to apply that to the OP... sort of a "mini-hijack" I guess. Sorry for any confusion.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm reading him that he is literally avoiding his own children because he is mad at his wife, ie: spite.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Physically, no. Emotionally, he's getting there. I have no idea if his lack of interaction is because of what I described above, though. I was simply responding to your statement that you had never heard of a parent becoming disinterested to spite their spouse, because I think that it's a common event, but not necessarily to spite a spouse. I was not trying to apply that to the OP... sort of a "mini-hijack" I guess. Sorry for any confusion.


I dont think its "always " to spite the spouse of course.But he included that in his lack of helping out around the house and it was a sort of "you give me more affection " and I will kind of attitude(when she complains ).It "rings" of spite.Or some sort of "stand off"..Like "you don't give me the affection I need "why should I help with the kids and the home chores"..


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You guys may well be right. I can definitely see that as possible/probable, but I don't yet feel certain of that.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

cdaniel76 said:


> I just can't understand how my wife, nor the therapist could not see how my depression was directly related to my affection and intimacy needs not being met for the past 6 years and in order for me to start feeling happier and want to be more active in all aspects of our lives that I needed to start FEELING love from my wife.


cdaniel76,

With all due respect, not your wife or your therapist or anyone is going to understand this, even though we may be sympathetic. You just can't blame your wife and her not meeting your needs for your depression and you can't condition your getting better on what she does or doesn't do. I would humbly suggest that you investigate some kind of way that you can start owning your problems rather than blaming them on your wife.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"The most depressing and sad thing about this all is how *uninterested I am in my son's life or in the fact that we have another baby on the way*. I don't do anything with my son. I'm so overweight and lazy that I can't enjoy outdoor activities, even if I felt like doing that. And *I could literally not be any less excited about a new baby coming*. If anything, I'm mad about it because if the way I feel now doesn't change, I will not be in a state of mind to bring a kid into this world."

This pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "The most depressing and sad thing about this all is how *uninterested I am in my son's life or in the fact that we have another baby on the way*. I don't do anything with my son. I'm so overweight and lazy that I can't enjoy outdoor activities, even if I felt like doing that. And *I could literally not be any less excited about a new baby coming*. If anything, I'm mad about it because if the way I feel now doesn't change, I will not be in a state of mind to bring a kid into this world."
> 
> This pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?


Yes..especially the use of the word 'mad"..


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

May I encourage us to use caution before drawing conclusions? These words of his that you've quoted are completely consistent with another possibility, too: That he's so overwhelmed and down on himself that he feels resentment at the idea that he's going to be a failure.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> May I encourage us to use caution before drawing conclusions? These words of his that you've quoted are completely consistent with another possibility, too: That he's so overwhelmed and down on himself that he feels resentment at the idea that he's going to be a failure.


I agree..but his resentment shouldn't be at his wife being he does have control over his own actions .That's all.Its the whole "blaming her " for it really I take the most issue with.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sometimes when someone else reflects back to you how "bad" your words sound to the outside observer, it can give you some perspective and cause a reason to try to view things differently.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Sometimes when someone else reflects back to you how "bad" your words sound to the outside observer, it can give you some perspective and cause a reason to try to view things differently.


Totally true.Sometimes we don't realize how we come across.I'm guilty of it..Especially with emotions running high.Try tape recording your self..(not you anyone)..sometimes you are like :rofl::scratchhead:


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