# The Double Standard Hypocrite



## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

i read often about how the wayward spouses who are remorseful and claim to be full of regret mention that if their spouse cheats, its a deal breaker and its over from that point. Now I personally have not had even the slightest of urges to do as such. But I find it absolutely revolting that they think that they deserve the right to call any shots. If there is a chance at R, they need to know that its up to the BS if that is even possible. Amazing how much power the WS can assume they have in their own twisted mind.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I agree. When you think about it...... I do not agree with tit for tat, but, I do not think its something they have the right to say really.

I mean they go do it, then lay the law down to the BS... I agree. They are in no position to lay down ultimatums.

I do not think it gives the BS the right to cheat tho either.... As two wrongs do not make a right.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Before infidelity happened to me I always said cheating was a deal breaker for me. Then my WW cheated and suddenly everything became different. At first divorce was my only option but I soon learned divorce was not what I wanted. WW hurt me badly with her affair and I still haven't recovered, in fact not even close yet. But I wonder if the WS is saying what so many people say before it happens to them. I won't cheat but my WW had felt the same as I regarding infidelity before her affair.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Well, if it's a deal-breaker for them, then it should be for you as well, so there should be no reconciliation. They violated their own standards, after all.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

How else did they cheat without applying the double standard hypocrisy?....They are used to duality...Ridiculous how they think everyone has the same value system and mindset as they do. I wish I could ask Socrates why cheaters do not attract and marry each other in the first place...I think he may say, that's because loyal spouses are the peace and quiet they need in order to scheme out their hidden base character traits. If that was a deal-breaker for my spouse, I would do it right in front of his face then ask the best question every cheater hates to hear: "How does it feel?"


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Before infidelity happened to me I always said cheating was a deal breaker for me. Then my WW cheated and suddenly everything became different. At first divorce was my only option but I soon learned divorce was not what I wanted. WW hurt me badly with her affair and I still haven't recovered, in fact not even close yet. But I wonder if the WS is saying what so many people say before it happens to them. I won't cheat but my WW had felt the same as I regarding infidelity before her affair.


DO, just curious... how did your wife's affair end?


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

It depends on the circumstances. There is a woman new to TAM. After her husband abandoned her, told her he didn't want to be married to her anymore and left, she had a random ONS. When they got back together, she fessed up to sleeping with someone else during their separation. He forgave her right away.

Well it turns out he had cheated during their marriage with his friend (and likely was with said friend as that is where he lived when he left his wife). He got her pregnant and kept it a secret for four years. 

After posting here, a few people blasted her for being a hypocrite for not forgiving him. In my opinion, the circumstances make all the difference. She "cheated" after he left her (supposedly for good) he cheated during the marriage and had a secret child as a result. Some could say it is a double standard but for them I don't agree.


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## RealityBites2 (Sep 12, 2014)

No, the offending party does not call the shots.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

My favorite hypocrite statement is when they tell you how you are hurting the children and breaking the family if you leave, even though you are leaving because they cheated.


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## Lancer (Sep 15, 2014)

The cheating spouse has no right to make demands. The betrayed spouse should make the calls, however, in real life I do not think that is normally the case. The betrayed spouse is trying to hang on to their marriage, oherwise they would have already left.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

jelly_bean said:


> My favorite hypocrite statement is when they tell you how you are hurting the children and breaking the family if you leave, even though you are leaving because they cheated.


Exactly what happened to me.

My EWW's parents told me to "think about the kids", to which
I replied "did she think of our kids while she was taking her
pants off for the OM and I was caring for our kids at home?".

Pathetic.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> DO, just curious... how did your wife's affair end?


Gus, she ended it after six months. WW worked with OM for three years after affair ended. I was able to speak with OM on his last day working for the company. OM admitted he wanted the affair to continue but WW didn't cooperate. From a legal standpoint I needed OM to throw the first punch but wouldn't. If I had thrown the first punch I would lose everything. With twin boys I had to think of them first. I continue to choke on my pride to this day. Sorry, thread jack over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> It depends on the circumstances. There is a woman new to TAM. After her husband abandoned her, told her he didn't want to be married to her anymore and left, she had a random ONS. When they got back together, she fessed up to sleeping with someone else during their separation. He forgave her right away.
> 
> Well it turns out he had cheated during their marriage with his friend (and likely was with said friend as that is where he lived when he left his wife). He got her pregnant and kept it a secret for four years.
> 
> After posting here, a few people blasted her for being a hypocrite for not forgiving him. In my opinion, the circumstances make all the difference. She "cheated" after he left her (supposedly for good) he cheated during the marriage and had a secret child as a result. Some could say it is a double standard but for them I don't agree.


Do you recall the thread? Sounds interesting.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Gus, she ended it after six months. WW worked with OM for three years after affair ended. I was able to speak with OM on his last day working for the company. OM admitted he wanted the affair to continue but WW didn't cooperate. From a legal standpoint I needed OM to throw the first punch but wouldn't. If I had thrown the first punch I would lose everything. With twin boys I had to think of them first. I continue to choke on my pride to this day. Sorry, thread jack over.


Sooo... did you not find out about the affair until years after it had already ended? How did you find out?


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

I'm not too proud to say that I've been tempted - strongly tempted - to be a hypocrite. Not in a scale-balancing way, but in the wake of totally unrelated issues settling in after the R that followed my wife's affair.

For better or for worse, I at least understand the allure now.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I hate to break it to you guys but if the WS feels they "ain't gonna put up with no cheating by their spouse", nothings can stop them from feeling that way, and whether anybody agrees or not, has a right to enforce their rule by hitting the road. If the BS wants to put up with that kind of behavior, its on them. Remember, they married um.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: The Double Standard Hypocrite*



Augusto said:


> i read often about how the wayward spouses who are remorseful and claim to be full of regret mention that if their spouse cheats, its a deal breaker and its over from that point. Now I personally have not had even the slightest of urges to do as such. But I find it absolutely revolting that they think that they deserve the right to call any shots. If there is a chance at R, they need to know that its up to the BS if that is even possible. Amazing how much power the WS can assume they have in their own twisted mind.


Read often? Here?

I thought we ran all those dirty waywards off the range?

A boundary is a boundary. Hypocritical or not.

And that tune is subject to change. I have personally known people that said they would be out the door if cheated on, and when that very thing happened, the circumstances warranted doing some other than what they stated they would do. I'd lump myself in that category.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

And there is a difference between a couple having double standards and different standards. My wife has openly said that if I cheated, it would not be a deal breaker for her. I have made it clear that if she cheated, it would be over.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Well Sam, who do you think commands the most respect; someone who draws a line in the sand or someone who won't ?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I think I'm in the same situation as samyeagar. My wife very likely would take me back if I cheated on her. I'm most definitely not going to find out.


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## jelly_bean (Sep 23, 2014)

I know my spouse would never take me back if I had an affair. He holds a grudge like you would not believe. Thinking back I don't think we ever really talked about it. I know I said to him, family, and friends that I know his family is the most important thing to him and he would never risk it with an affair. I really believed that. Guess I was wrong....again LOL


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Well Sam, who do you think commands the most respect; someone who draws a line in the sand or someone who won't ?


Everybody has their own lines in the sand, and just because theirs is different than mine, does not command any less or more respect.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

FWIW, I know many will say that they would never take back a cheater, only to go back on those words when they are face to face with the situation.

For me, I think I can say I probably won't be in R. My wife is a very proud woman. Or stubborn, however you look at it. Either way, she isn't prone to saying sorry and demonstrating remorse. I accept that when faced with infidelity myself, I may not be so certain and decisive. But what I can be certain about is that if I'm faced with an _unrepentant_ cheater, I can dump and walk away with my head held high.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

actually I am happy if my wife holds such a boundary, it is much less offensive than her telling me to go get a BJ on Dday, so we would be "even"


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> And there is a difference between a couple having double standards and different standards. My wife has openly said that if I cheated, it would not be a deal breaker for her. I have made it clear that if she cheated, it would be over.


I don't see this as hypocritical at all. 
The only problem would be if the two parties never talked about this before the fact. The individuals in a couple don't have to have identical beliefs; its much more important if they accept each other's belief.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

cantthinkstraight said:


> Exactly what happened to me.
> 
> My EWW's parents told me to "think about the kids", to which
> I replied "did she think of our kids while she was taking her
> ...


How did they respond to your statement?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Pluto2 said:


> I don't see this as hypocritical at all.
> The only problem would be if the two parties never talked about this before the fact. The individuals in a couple don't have to have identical beliefs; its much more important if they accept each other's belief.


But that does seem kind of funny for me....

My wife has indicated she'd be incredibly hurt and heartbroken but probably wouldn't leave me. I 'accept' that position FWIW. It doesn't mean I'm trying it out.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> FWIW, I know many will say that they would never take back a cheater, only to go back on those words when they are face to face with the situation.
> 
> For me, I think I can say I probably won't be in R. My wife is a very proud woman. Or stubborn, however you look at it. Either way, she isn't prone to saying sorry and demonstrating remorse. I accept that when faced with infidelity myself, I may not be so certain and decisive. But what I can be certain about is that if I'm faced with an _unrepentant_ cheater, I can dump and walk away with my head held high.


For me, it's not about my spouse, but about me. I know myself well enough to know there is nothing she could do to fully regain my trust. I would never be able to trust her again, no matter how remorseful. I could not function in a relationship with trust that had been damaged on that level.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Augusto said:


> i read often about how the wayward spouses who are remorseful and claim to be full of regret mention that if their spouse cheats, its a deal breaker and its over from that point. Now I personally have not had even the slightest of urges to do as such. But I find it absolutely revolting that they think that they deserve the right to call any shots.


If your wayward spouse is doing anything but getting on their knees and BEGGING for forgiveness, tell them to FOAD. :rofl:


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Everybody has their own lines in the sand, and just because theirs is different than mine, does not command any less or more respect.


Maybe, but at least to me, the closer that line in the sand is to your own property line, the less trespassing you'll put up with and the more respect I will have for you.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

These conversations are circular. During the affair, obviously the WS felt no remorse. During reconciliation, they do the self-reflection; hate who they allowed themselves to be and what infidelity really means (just how nasty it is to do to their spouse). If they learned that lesson and are truly remorseful, why on earth would you think they’d accept you having a ‘justified’ revenge affair? 

To me, it’s only the ones who can justify your affair that you should be afraid of. So the darker flip side I’ve told my WW: What any WS going into R should fear the most is now they know their BS has accepted infidelity is NOT a dealbreaker. Forever more, they too have it shattered that fidelity should be something you can’t take for granted. Personally, I see a hurt BS being more vulnerable to infidelity than a truly remorseful former WS. Now the BS has a good reason and isn’t ‘any worse’ than their own spouse who did it for less……. And the remorseful WS understands they opened that box and can no longer rely on magic rings to bind you to oaths now broken.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Augusto said:


> i read often about how the wayward spouses who are remorseful and claim to be full of regret mention that if their spouse cheats, its a deal breaker and its over from that point. Now I personally have not had even the slightest of urges to do as such. But I find it absolutely revolting that they think that they deserve the right to call any shots. If there is a chance at R, they need to know that its up to the BS if that is even possible. Amazing how much power the WS can assume they have in their own twisted mind.


Spot on observation.

I can't remember the one posters name, but she cheated first, she wanted forgiveness, got it, then her husband cheated, and she isn't sure if she can handle it.

That's the worst kind of cheater, as if it can get worse. One that wants to be given the benefit of the doubt, wants to be able to not lose their marriage, calls those that see them for what they are "bitter", but then won't stand for it when it happens to them. 

Double standard hypocrite is right.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... did you not find out about the affair until years after it had already ended? How did you find out?


Gus, I found out a little over two and half years later. January 20 2014 is my d-day. OM quit April 2014.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Although I was tempted to have an RA after dday, and had the opportunity with a coworker, I can't/won't go there. However, I'm always a little baffled when my fWS tells me things like my own cheating would be a dealbreaker. I guess I understand where it's coming from but actually hearing him say it leaves me feeling cold, a little angry/resentful, and slightly surprised to hear the actual words come out of his mouth. If he had said anything like this to me about six months out from dday when I was seriously angry about the affair, I likely would have landed myself in jail after throat punching him. 

However, over two years out I tell him that unequivocally, without a doubt I would surely leave him first if I wanted to hop in bed with someone else that badly :smthumbup: :scratchhead:. And yes, even though it's not very mature or helpful, I always say it very snarky and sarcastically. It's one of the few things he can mention and raise my blood pressure with very quickly.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: The Double Standard Hypocrite*



TryingToRecover said:


> If he had said anything like this to me about six months out from dday when I was seriously angry about the affair, I likely would have landed myself in jail after throat punching him.


I don't like this.

I love it.

I'm all for calling someone on their sh!t. I think this scenario reminds of grade school behavior where your friend does something really crappy that hurts you and then declares, "you better not try that on me ..." 

And the reason they say it, is because they know what they did sucked.

Or they are a straight up Narcissist. 

I just didn't think that we have a large number of that kind of poster here.

My ex lied to and gas lit me. It was a lousy time. We tried to R several times, but she kept running smack into a boundary and the whole thing would fall apart ... and she would blame me.

Thankfully, those days are behind us.
Circumstances aren't the same. We aren't the same.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Gus, I found out a little over two and half years later. *January 20 2014* is my d-day. OM quit April 2014.


The very day that I joined TAM...

Damn.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

This post exemplifies why I do not believe in saying "put yourself in their shoes". It can't truly be done. You can look at the shoes, compare the shoes to some you may have that are similar but you can never really know until they're on your feet and you take those first few steps.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

NoChoice said:


> This post exemplifies why I do not believe in saying "put yourself in their shoes". It can't truly be done. You can look at the shoes, compare the shoes to some you may have that are similar but you can never really know until they're on your feet and you take those first few steps.


I think 'put yourself in my shoes' is one of the most effective measures to communicate with the other person the pain you are in. If they still feel no remorse, then they haven't effectively done that IMO


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I mostly agree with the sentiments of hypocrisy stated here. Especially when that hypocrisy or double standard comes from a place of entitlement or seeking to control. I have seen examples of people who think it is okay for them to screw anything with two legs but would be disgusted if their spouse did the same. That is definitely hypocrisy.

On the other hand, I think it could be looked at in a less damning way. Especially when that sentiment comes from a remorseful spouse who has rededicated him/herself back to the marriage. 

Take for instance a couple where one spouse became a drug addict. Their addiction hurt their spouse, their children, the family and themselves. Similar to infidelity assets of the marriage whether time and/or money go to the addiction. 

Now let's say this person got clean, went to rehab and remained clean from that point forward. In their new sobriety they tell their never-addicted spouse that them doing drugs is a dealbreaker for them. I don't see this as hypocritical... on the surface perhaps but there are very good reasons for them having that boundary. Even if that boundary includes past behaviour you were once guilty of yourself. 

In the case of addicts, if in recovery of the addiction and also the marriage - I am assuming health is the goal. Having a recreational or habitual drug user around could not coexist with health or sobriety in that marriage. Similarly to cheating, if the goal of reconciliation is to build a new healthy marriage, future cheating on either part can not coexist with that goal.

It may sometimes also be like a smoker telling you not to smoke. Are they hypocritical? Maybe. But they also say so because they know what the individual consequences are for smokers as they live them and probably don't wish for others to go down the same path.

Someone who has cheated and is ashamed of that might not wish others to learn that shame first hand - including their betrayed.

On another aside, revenge affairs/future affairs by a BS could be seen as a double-standard/hypocrisy as well. Knowing full well what it is like to be cheated on, damning the unfaithful spouse, making new boundaries and demands etc., exposing them, and then cheating after all of that? Not to mention that instead of getting the message of seeing how it feels, it could be taken as a green light for the wayward spouse to cheat again. I have seen relationships like this with a never-ending cycle of cheating "at" (as opposed to "on" each other). What a mess!

First, I fully understand the pain that may drive someone there. There was a time where I too was tempted to get my revenge and cheat back but didn't. I don't think there are much good reasons to cheat, including for revenge. And thinking that it is, that a revenge A is justifiable or had special or extenuating circustances that makes a revenge affair a more valid choice is pretty close to cheater speak. We all try to wake up the few foggy cheaters that come here for thinking theirs is a "special" case, I don't think RAs should be treated any different. A wrong plus a wrong and all that...


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## Aethervalue (Sep 27, 2014)

Thinking back about those two times when one of my ex girlfriends, now married with children, invited us over for tea or whatever and my wife freaked out and refused. Bad. She was sleeping with her ex boyfriend the entire time. So it's fine for her to do that, she has never had any remorse, but for us to go to tea together with my ex? I really do not understand how these people think.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

NoChoice said:


> This post exemplifies why I do not believe in saying "put yourself in their shoes". It can't truly be done. You can look at the shoes, compare the shoes to some you may have that are similar but you can never really know until they're on your feet and you take those first few steps.


From what I've experienced, adulterers/cheaters, whatever you want to call them are some classic "can dish it out, but can't take it" types.

They do things that they'd absolutely crap themselves if someone pulled it on them. They mouth ridiculous rationalizations, then either sit stone faced when confronted, or fly off into some exaggerated victim-mode.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

The waywards all have one thing in common, No matter what they may say after being discovered, they only think of themselves.

EVER


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Forest said:


> *From what I've experienced, adulterers/cheaters, whatever you want to call them are some classic "can dish it out, but can't take it" types.*
> 
> They do things that they'd absolutely crap themselves if someone pulled it on them. They mouth ridiculous rationalizations, then either sit stone faced when confronted, or fly off into some exaggerated victim-mode.


Yeah, I experienced this as well. y husband's erstwhile EA asked him lots of questions about me, including relating to our sex life. but the minute that she saw that I had her e-mail address and sent her an e-mail (one rather innocuous, I should say: my husband in trying to shore up things with me sent me a confirmation of cinema tickets and I simply offered them to her and her boyfriend .... nothing more said), she called me immature, noting of course, the 21 years of age difference, she being the younger. 

I had to point out to my boyfriend (future husband) that nothing is more immature than asking about the sex life of someone that she has never met.


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## MikeBrant (Aug 18, 2014)

And since when is cheating a strength in character?
And regardless of what is often argued here, ceteris paribus a person who cheats on their spouse has lower morals than one who didn't.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Double Standard Hypocrite*



MikeBrant said:


> And since when is cheating a strength in character?
> And regardless of what is often argued here, ceteris paribus a person who cheats on their spouse has lower morals than one who didn't.


Wrong. While they may have lower morals in one area of the marriage, the one who did not cheat may have lower morals in other area(s). Infidelity does not automatically throw one spouse into the "lower morals" category.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

The double-standard that a WS might expect is certainly them thinking quite highly of themselves. Thinking they deserve a right to not be cheated on after what they did is..I can't even understand it. 

And if they consider it a deal breaker, then I would assume they would have already filed for divorce before DDay. 

But, I do believe there are some points to be made for why we don't suggest getting a revenge affair. 
Any BS is going to have a roller coaster of emotions. Rage, hate, anger, love, desire, pain, hurt, indifference, passion, and more. The emotions a BS will feel is as colorful as a rainbow. 
Adding an affair to the emotional storm a BS will experience does not help the situation. It only fans the fire. 

So while the WS has not right to demand faithfulness from their BS, any smart BS will not go out looking for trouble. Their emotions are running high, and decisions made in this time are seldom good decisions.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Maricha75 said:


> Wrong. While they may have lower morals in one area of the marriage, the one who did not cheat may have lower morals in other area(s). Infidelity does not automatically throw one spouse into the "lower morals" category.


As long as the other, betrayed spouse is Joseph Stalin.


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

Revenge affairs isn't such a good idea. An affair won't even up the stakes. Rather it gives a WS reason to be unremorseful about how he/she hurt her BS. 

Anyways, what compensation can really erase our hurt?


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

Forest said:


> As long as the other, betrayed spouse is Joseph Stalin.


And I thought cold war ended in the 90s.......


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Rohitvikash said:


> And I thought cold war ended in the 90s.......


Putin didn't get the memo apparently.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Double Standard Hypocrite*



Forest said:


> As long as the other, betrayed spouse is Joseph Stalin.


Oh, please. Someone who constantly lies about everything, just because they want to, isn't worse? Someone who murders another person isn't worse? Not even a thief would be worse? Oh, sorry... I forgot. That's impossible because, after all, none of them cheated on their spouses. 

And, no, I don't mean someone who does ALL of those. I mean someone who does any of those, repeatedly. Each would have, at the VERY least, equally low morals as one who has cheated. Again, saying that cheaters have the LOWEST morals is bullsh*t.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

When it comes to betrayal between spouses, the severity of the offense depends of which spouse is gauging it.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

I think the most recent trauma or assault on one's person quite often feels like the worst thing they have been forced to endure. In turn, if that assault or trauma was inflicted on them by someone else, the that person is seen to be the worst person "EVAR" (sp intentional for emphasis). A broken heart is not known for reason.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Wrong. While they may have lower morals in one area of the marriage, the one who did not cheat may have lower morals in other area(s). Infidelity does not automatically throw one spouse into the "lower morals" category.


No, a person who cheats does not automatically have a lower set of morals, IMO, than the betrayed spouse. 

But as long as that betrayed spouse isn’t an abuser, cheater themselves, drug user, murderer, etc, in other words if the other spouse conducts themselves in a moral fashion, then yes, the cheating spouse DOES have a lower set of morals.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Revenge affairs isn't such a good idea. An affair won't even up the stakes. Rather it gives a WS reason to be unremorseful about how he/she hurt her BS.

Anyways, what compensation can really erase our hurt?"

This is why I don't believe in getting even.....

I believe in getting ahead


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> "Revenge affairs isn't such a good idea. An affair won't even up the stakes. Rather it gives a WS reason to be unremorseful about how he/she hurt her BS.
> 
> Anyways, what compensation can really erase our hurt?"
> 
> ...


Exactly. I never had a desire for revenge against my x-wife. Leaving her was revenge enough. Well, that and the fact the guy she is with now is controlling and she is in hell


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Exactly. I never had a desire for revenge against my x-wife. Leaving her was revenge enough. Well, that and the fact the guy she is with now is controlling and she is in hell


I tend to think that the grass is greener with gorgeous flowers on the other-side of the hill being painted in their minds by the other person and in reality they get over the hill and find a barren wasteland. And they then realize how nice that little valley was with the small creek, tall grass, and oak trees really were.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Augusto said:


> i read often about how the wayward spouses who are remorseful and claim to be full of regret mention that if their spouse cheats, its a deal breaker and its over from that point. Now I personally have not had even the slightest of urges to do as such. But I find it absolutely revolting that they think that they deserve the right to call any shots. If there is a chance at R, they need to know that its up to the BS if that is even possible. Amazing how much power the WS can assume they have in their own twisted mind.


Utter crap.

People are entitled to their own boundaries regardless of the boundaries their partners choose.

If a WS is offered R by a BS that WS is still entitled to their own boundaries, the BS is entitled to accept or not accept them just as the WS is entitled to accept or not accept those of the BS.

The idea that a BS should be able to have a revenge affair with the WS unable to do anything but accept it is asinine to the extreme


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

The thread has the most accurate title for a very ambiguous concept as we all have different views about what is and is not the truth. I don't consider cheating to be akin to physical rape, murder or child molestation, all acts I think should be punishable by death. In fact, cheating is the easy part to get over since it already happened in the past and the shock of knowing can and does get suppressed over time. 

However it is the aftermath of the incident that is key here as most people, most I say, enter limbo for some degree and depending on the draw the affair has over the WS, the BS starts getting psychologically abused to the point of emotional rape. I do not say this lightly as some former waywards who are here may or may not understand this while the others will not even begin to try to admit their emotional wrong doings. 

The hypocrisy can be devastating to the point that PTSD and depression set in and are kept in place by a wayward who likes the power so much that they do whatever it takes to keep the BS down for the count, blaming themselves, focusing on their shortcomings, and as Chumplady calls it doing the Pick me dance. Although some BS can and do instantly disintegrate the marriage due to pride, for themselves, the way it should be, others simply cannot muster the self worth to do what is necessary until they reach a level of tolerance they are not willing to accept anymore. Few waywards fall on the sword immediately and admit and accept any wrongdoing as their own fault, but like the strong BS out there who fight back immediately they are also few and far between. 

The Double standard talked about here is in most cases too powerful to resist initially if at all since the reality of the BS is not only warped into the unimaginable they are then convinced it was their fault for being this way. I distinctly remember trying to talk about me and my wife's problems with earnest concern and attention post D-day. She could, and did, endlessly talk about the past and my apparent fvckup's and whenever I tried to explain myself (Which I shouldn't need to) by citing past cause and affect actions she got visibly frustrated saying " You (I) need to stop living in the past"!!!

This is abuse ladies and gentleman and if an adult did this type of behavior to a child most, if not all, people would challenge the parent, not make excuses for them. At the end of the day the BS who wishes to fix things should be rewarded with effort and respect and anything else not up to par should be curbed and if the effort cannot be made time to leave, and on the best terms possible.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Augusto said:


> I tend to think that the grass is greener with gorgeous flowers on the other-side of the hill being painted in their minds by the other person and in reality they get over the hill and find a barren wasteland. And they then realize how nice that little valley was with the small creek, tall grass, and oak trees really were.


That's ok, once they leave the valley never to return, it makes room for someone else to occupy it that deserves to be there.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Utter crap.
> 
> People are entitled to their own boundaries regardless of the boundaries their partners choose.
> 
> ...


Nowhere did he say that the BS should be able to have a revenge affair. Augusto was commenting on the double standard that a WS would obviously exhibit if they think they should be forgiven for their cheating, but their spouse should not.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

vellocet said:


> That's ok, once they leave the valley never to return, it makes room for someone else to occupy it that deserves to be there.


If it were so easy...... Others however have to redo the entire landscape at it was strip mined and scorched when the offending party left.

Yes it can be fixed, in time, and that's all we got isn't it, time.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, please. Someone who constantly lies about everything, just because they want to, isn't worse? Someone who murders another person isn't worse? Not even a thief would be worse? Oh, sorry... I forgot. That's impossible because, after all, none of them cheated on their spouses.
> 
> And, no, I don't mean someone who does ALL of those. I mean someone who does any of those, repeatedly. Each would have, at the VERY least, equally low morals as one who has cheated. Again, saying that cheaters have the LOWEST morals is bullsh*t.


Cheaters simply demonstrate their morals very well. They lack them.

At least you're comparing cheaters in the company they deserve here. My point is that a cheater decrying anyone else's morals is a pretty meager thread to try and reach the high ground with.

Really, who'd want that to bolster their ego with: "I'm a cheater, but he's a real louse." Great therapy.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Oh, please. Someone who constantly lies about everything, just because they want to, isn't worse? Someone who murders another person isn't worse? Not even a thief would be worse? Oh, sorry... I forgot. That's impossible because, after all, none of them cheated on their spouses.


There is always something worse than something else. 

Someone slashing at me with a knife and cutting me once is better than them cutting me up and left bleeding in a ditch.
But the former criminal act of violence isn't made any better just because they could have done worse to me.

Infidelity sucks, and hurts people badly. Just because there are worse things that can happen to someone doesn't mean make cheating any less of a sh*tty act.

How about we tell the kid at school who is bullied to suck it up and quit whining because afterall, there are worse things that could happen to him.


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Utter crap.
> 
> People are entitled to their own boundaries regardless of the boundaries their partners choose.
> 
> ...



Way off....the boundary is the marriage. It gets built together. Step outside and you leave it all. BS does not have to open the gate. And revenge affair?! :scratchhead:


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Augusto said:


> Way off....the boundary is the marriage. It gets built together. Step outside and you leave it all. BS does not have to open the gate. And revenge affair?! :scratchhead:


Augusto,

What has she done to R. Did she quit her job? Does she still talk with people she bragged about OM to?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: The Double Standard Hypocrite*



Forest said:


> Cheaters simply demonstrate their morals very well. They lack them.
> 
> *At least you're comparing cheaters in the company they deserve here.* My point is that a cheater decrying anyone else's morals is a pretty meager thread to try and reach the high ground with.
> 
> Really, who'd want that to bolster their ego with: "I'm a cheater, but he's a real louse." Great therapy.


No, sir. I do not deserve to be put into the company of murderers or rapists or molesters. That, Forest, is bullshyt. And it adds to the mentality that we waywards are the lowest on the face of the earth. Sorry to burst your bubble, but we are not. And I am getting tired of seeing that garbage stated time and again.


YES, there ARE worse. There are MUCH worse people out there. And I agree with Tacoma regarding wayward and betrayed after they choose to reconcile. They AGREE on the boundaries, together, going forward. Just because one was forgiven and the marriage continued does not mean it has to be that way if the betrayed cheats later. Same would apply if the wayward cheated again. NEITHER is obligated to reconcile, period. Both are free to have whatever boundaries they choose. And they are free to decide how THEY handle a betrayal. No one is obligated to follow a t-4-t scenario.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

The hypocrisy as I see it is in the fact that it's unidirectional. How is it that it's not bidirectional? Is that not duplicitous?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@Augusto I know this is an old thread but it is an interesting discussion. I came across this article in the Huffington Post and thought it was interesting, not surprising, but interesting.

_____________________________

People Who Cheat Are More Likely To Forgive Cheaters, Study Finds

Are cheaters more tolerant of cheating?

New research suggests that unfaithful partners are more likely to forgive others' infidelity than those who have never strayed.

In a recent study published in the Journal of Sexuality and Culture, researchers Desiree I. Sharpe, Andrew S. Walters, and Matt J. Goren tested attitudes towards infidelity based on gender and past cheating experience.

After presenting 92 men and 228 women with scenarios in which partners cheated and then asking them questions, the researchers discovered that people who had cheated in the past were more accepting of others' infidelity. Even more interesting, the researchers found the sexes tended to stick together.

"Men with cheating experience were most accepting/forgiving of the male cheating character and women with cheating experience were most accepting/forgiving of the female cheating character," the authors explained.

Alternatively, "Participants who reported no history of inﬁdelity found inﬁdelity as generally unacceptable, regardless of character gender," the authors wrote.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Truthseeker1,

Interesting study....but I can't say I was surprised to read the result.

Just more evidence of something we already know from personal experience and TAM: 

Cheaters SUCK when it comes to anything related to integrity or loyalty.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Truthseeker1,
> 
> Interesting study....but I can't say I was surprised to read the result.
> 
> ...


 @Dyokemm Cheaters are about one person - themselves. I know t his defies TAM orthodoxy but I have ZERO sympathy for a cheater who gets cheated on.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Well, I lived that hypocrisy. My H was a serial cheater who eventually stopped because he said he got tired of the sneaking around. Not because he realized what an awful thing he was doing to me and our family, or that he loved me, just that it got too hard. 

But when I had an EA a few years after he confessed, he was so indignant...even to the point of saying about my AP, "but, he's married!" I almost laughed in his face and had to point out to him that so was he when he was having hotel sex with women he met on cheater websites. 

He was genuinely shocked when I called him on his hypocritical BS. Sorry, but when you break the rules you've got no right to reset them.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> Well, I lived that hypocrisy. My H was a serial cheater who eventually stopped because he said he got tired of the sneaking around. Not because he realized what an awful thing he was doing to me and our family, or that he loved me, just that it got too hard.
> 
> But when I had an EA a few years after he confessed, he was so indignant...even to the point of saying about my AP, "but, he's married!" I almost laughed in his face and had to point out to him that so was he when he was having hotel sex with women he met on cheater websites.
> 
> He was genuinely shocked when I called him on his hypocritical BS. Sorry, but when you break the rules you've got no right to reset them.


 @blahfridge Let me get this straight - he had multiple PHYSICAL affairs - you had ONE EA and he was shocked when you called him a hypocrite for being indignant. Hurt I can understand (if he truly loves you) - indignant - uh no sorry....:nono: "But he's married" oh that is priceless...


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> Well, I lived that hypocrisy. My H was a serial cheater who eventually stopped because he said he got tired of the sneaking around. Not because he realized what an awful thing he was doing to me and our family, or that he loved me, just that it got too hard.
> 
> But when I had an EA a few years after he confessed, he was so indignant...even to the point of saying about my AP, "but, he's married!" I almost laughed in his face and had to point out to him that so was he when he was having hotel sex with women he met on cheater websites.
> 
> He was genuinely shocked when I called him on his hypocritical BS. Sorry, but when you break the rules you've got no right to reset them.


I completely get what your saying and agree with your thoughts on this.. 

BUT 2 wrongs don't make a right.. I can assume you are both even ? 

Or it isn't because he had more PAs ? 
Or that you really didn't get caught in a PA ?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> I completely get what your saying and agree with your thoughts on this..
> 
> BUT 2 wrongs don't make a right.. I can assume you are both even ?
> 
> ...


 @Hardtohandle I myself am an agnostic on RAs. But I think she was not saying it was right but that he got indignant about it. A serial cheater really looks like a jacka** when they get indignant about infidelity. And in my book ONE EA, while not right, is nowhere near as terrible as multiple PAs with multiple partners.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @Hardtohandle I myself am an agnostic on RAs. But I think she was not saying it was right but that he got indignant about it. A serial cheater really looks like a jacka** when they get indignant about infidelity. And in my book ONE EA, while not right, is nowhere near as terrible as multiple PAs with multiple partners.


Oh, I agree with you and with what she was saying.. 

But I'm wonder where her mind is at with it..

Look, I have never cheated on anyone in my life.. 

But if I was his shoes I would wonder after this EA where the even line is drawn.. Again it was her choice ( as it was mine with my ex wife ) to take them back after several EAs or PAs.. 

Only time I ever brought up my Ex wife EAs and possible PA ( never had proof but hindsight being 20/20 as they say.. Her actions denoted a *possible *PA ) was when she was leaving me and only to express how much I had to endure with her and when it was her time she gave up on us.. I felt she owed us the chances I gave her repeatedly.. 

So if I were in his shoes I would want to know.. I sure wouldn't be comfortable if my wife told me we weren't even and *meant it*.. At that point I would be like what is the use.. I would just cheat again because I know in her mind she feels she can, because we are not even.. 

So thats why I asked.. I'm nosey..


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> Oh, I agree with you and with what she was saying..
> 
> But I'm wonder where her mind is at with it..
> 
> ...


 @Hardtohandle I understand your point but I think her H deserved a bit of his own medicine. Plus he got a MUCH tamer dose of what he gave her. He will have no mind movies of the act, nor did she expose him to STDS. I'm sorry maybe it's my vengeful nature but a cheater who gets cheated on makes me smile.


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Of course cheaters will accept cheating more than BS. It's easier on them! I think there are a couple of reasons: 
1) they think "yep, I deserve it, let's get this over with"
2) "see, it's not that big of a deal, happens all the time, everyone survives in the end" (I was deliberately crass there, knowing that some have committed suicide over the pain of infidelity)
3) probably many more reasons


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TheGoodGuy said:


> Of course cheaters will accept cheating more than BS. It's easier on them! I think there are a couple of reasons:
> 1) they think "yep, I deserve it, let's get this over with"
> 2) "see, it's not that big of a deal, happens all the time, everyone survives in the end" (I was deliberately crass there, knowing that some have committed suicide over the pain of infidelity)
> 3) probably many more reasons


 @TheGoodGuy Your first point is an excellent one. Although I'm an agnostic on RAs - it can backfire and give the initial cheater justification for their affair or release them from guilt. However there are some like a previous posters husband who get indignant about it.....


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Hardtohandle said:


> I completely get what your saying and agree with your thoughts on this..
> 
> *BUT 2 wrongs don't make a right..* I can assume you are both even ?
> 
> ...


Yahbut, if your partner sees nothing WRONG with their dalliances, then how can you even apply that principle?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Truthseeker1,

I have ZERO sympathy for a cheater that gets cheated on either....what goes around comes around as far as I'm concerned.

What I was referring to is that the study showed cheaters had more sympathy and understanding for people who cheat.

I'm not surprised the study showed that...because people that can betray those that love them obviously have serious issues when it comes to empathy for the victims of sh*tty behavior just like their own.

As I said....they SUCK at integrity and honorable behavior....it's as if these are concepts alien to their nature and character.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Truthseeker1,
> 
> I have ZERO sympathy for a cheater that gets cheated on either....what goes around comes around as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> ...


You know I can understand why someone who has cheated having more sympathy and understanding..

But I think a BIG factor is they are trying to put themselves in the shoes of the person betrayed.. I get in some instances the Cheater is going through their own emotional issues, but they are 2 different sets of feelings they are going through and unless you have been on the receiving end you can't imagine it.. 

Look I have arrested people crimes that were questionable but sometimes these people arrested were also physically sick.. Some kind of deformity of some sort, etc.. Some went to jail for YEARS.. My sympathy comes in when I know they already have fvcked up lives but also did something stupid which even though I know it is a crime.. I feel bad because now they are in a jail and jail sucks regardless. You just know these people aren't built for jails if you get what I mean.. Especially when I have personally arrested some people that committed crimes repeatedly that have walked with extended probation, as an example drug sales.. 

So though I know a lot about what is going on and how it can be, I have empathy for the person.. But I really never been through it.. As I can relate what my Ex wife might have been going through also and it's obvious by her cutting out everyone in her life including her own son that this did something to her.. Sadly this other man doesn't see it and obviously doesn't care. Because I have kids, if I met a woman in her shoes I would ask and I would wonder and I would care.. I would try to convince this person to fix their relationship with their kids.. 

So for this reason I think this survey is skewed in the sense that they can relate and are more forgiving because they done it and in a sense are looking to absolve themselves for that they did.. They are reflecting back on what they did and no matter how much we talk about rewriting history even someone who does cheat, even if they do come back.. I still think part of them does a little rewriting but just swallows it.. But in their heads its more okay this is what really happen but for the sake of this relationship and family.. I will just swallow it and let it go to fix this, because in the end I shouldn't have cheated.. But still you know deep down this is bullsh!t, but I will be the better person here because of what I did.. 

Again it's human nature to protect yourself regardless. My ExGF would tell me stories from her past and then when I toed the line of calling her ****ty or wh0rish she would get pissed.. It was the whole why are you dating me then comment.. I used to tell her I didn't know almost 2 years ago you did all these things did I.. You sort of slip them out over time.. I get it you don't want to shock anybody by telling them all at once.. But here is a word of advice, Shut the fvck up about these stories.. They don't make you look good and they do the OPPOSITE of what you want.. Trust me on this one.. I don't know it all but trust me it doesn't make someone want to be with you MORE.. But she was still mad because she didn't like being called what she was practically painting a picture of.. Well honestly she was doing it.. I just hate admitting I had feeling for her knowing some of the things she did.. 

There you go I said.. First time.. 

So taking this survey for them I think is a part of absolving themselves . Its just like one reformed drug addict calling another person a junkie.. It just really doesn't happen.. They hated when they were called it, they won't do it to another person who is in that situation..


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

So, I see that more info on my situation is wanted, as some of you are nosy.  Yes, my H did re-write history and that allowed him to see my EA affair as much worse than his PA's. Remarkable, isn't it? The reason he was able to do this is because he had hacked into my phone and computer and read most of the correspondence between my AP and I. So, to see it in black and white, made it much worse to him, which I can understand to a degree. 

At the same time, he had trickle truthed me into thinking he only had one affair and it was long over. I willingly rug swept the whole thing. When he finally admitted to the spying I insisted on knowing more details and that's when he I found about first three, then five affairs and how they came about. I am sure there are more and it's more than likely even sleazier than the cheating websites as I also found a ton of porn on the home computers, which I made him get rid of. I was clueless about what he was up to, being busy with three small children at the time, and it never would have occurred to me to spy on him. I pointed that out to him and asked him to tell me exactly what he wrote to all those women and did he want to tell me what he said to them in bed, while they were having sex? That shut him up too. 

We've been in MC now for about six months and I think now he's starting to get how much his cheating messed with my mind and destroyed our marriage. I can see now that my EA was partly for revenge, partly an escape from what had become an intolerable situation. I have only myself to blame for not being strong enough to confront H when I first found out about affair #1. 

As for him and and this thread topic...yes, initially I think he felt like what was good for the goose is good for the gander, as the saying goes. He even told me as much when he first let me know that he knew about my EA. But, he couldn't handle it...told me he suddenly realized that he loved me and didn't want to lose me. He also deluded himself, like most cheaters do, that what he did was for the good of the family...that he was getting sex somewhere else because I wasn't putting out enough for him, so instead of leaving, he cheated. He also claims to forget a lot of it. Also a very convenient and classic cheater move. If he had said that after he admitted to the first affair, begged my forgiveness, and said he was willing to do anything to make it up to me, it might have made a difference. But, I got only one short text that read: "I'm sorry", and that was it. We never talked about it, until my EA. 

It was only an online EA, by the way, and never progressed further. But, to be really truthful, that was more because of the great distance between us, the OM lives on the other side of the globe. I did have the opportunity to see him early on when he came to the US, but I chickened out and couldn't go through with it. I used to regret that, but now I know that RA's only make you feel worse, like you're no better than the POS cheater you're married to. So, if I had it to do all over, I wouldn't have gone there. But then again, it was my EA that finally got my H to confess. I have a lot of rage still about how he cheated me out of years of knowing the truth.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blahfridge said:


> So, I see that more info on my situation is wanted, as some of you are nosy.  Yes, my H did re-write history and that allowed him to see my EA affair as much worse than his PA's. Remarkable, isn't it? The reason he was able to do this is because he had hacked into my phone and computer and read most of the correspondence between my AP and I. So, to see it in black and white, made it much worse to him, which I can understand to a degree.
> 
> At the same time, he had trickle truthed me into thinking he only had one affair and it was long over. I willingly rug swept the whole thing. When he finally admitted to the spying I insisted on knowing more details and that's when he I found about first three, then five affairs and how they came about. I am sure there are more and it's more than likely even sleazier than the cheating websites as I also found a ton of porn on the home computers, which I made him get rid of. I was clueless about what he was up to, being busy with three small children at the time, and it never would have occurred to me to spy on him. I pointed that out to him and asked him to tell me exactly what he wrote to all those women and did he want to tell me what he said to them in bed, while they were having sex? That shut him up too.
> 
> ...


 @blahfridge So hubby was trickle truthing and probably still is even AFTER he found out and got indignant about your EA? He needs to do a lot of work on himself - and i'm being kind here.


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

Thankfully I never had to get my head around infidelity, as I don't think I could. The hypocracy seems doubly incomprehensible. 

In my mind I see standards as equal for both H and W. So if a WS said "if you ever have an affair I am leaving", I think my automatic response would be "so you think I should leave you?" I wonder what the response would be.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

It's all really about the Dirty Little Secret in Marriage... "The Balance of Power".

That "Balance" shifts one side to other throughout a Marriage, regardless of infidelity.

Husband loses job and is forced to become SAHD for a time... the scales tip.
Wife get new job, large salary... the scales tip.
Wife has 3rd child, has to stay home and raise kids, totally financially dependent on H... the scales tip.
Wife middle age, does a 180 makeover, suddenly she get attention, she likes it... the scales tip.

Now add to the mix Infidelity. Married 20+, Husband faithful, Wife cheats (reason makes no difference). Husband find out, DD, anguish, pain, hurt, wife remorseful, they decide to R, go thru MC, come out on the other side still together. 

Here the point... the DLS, Regardless of the "scales" prior to DD, they are now forever tipped in the H favor. He knows it She knows it. She can work at being the best wife in the world, but the dark shadow on infidelity will always undermine her words, her action, her "balancing act". My FWW calls it my Trump Card. I very rarely use it, but it always rides in my back pocket, everyday. 

Now see where this Hypocrisy, when both partners cheat, is really rooted... its all about the Balance of Power.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

RWB said:


> It's all really about the Dirty Little Secret in Marriage... "The Balance of Power".
> 
> That "Balance" shifts one side to other throughout a Marriage, regardless of infidelity.
> 
> ...


 @RWB This is why RAs sometimes backfire and do not have their intended effect. The cheater is relieved that things are now "even" and feel they have been released.


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