# Can I bring logic and reason back into our life?



## Giggles42Zero (Mar 19, 2016)

I just hope I made sense. I am an emotional wreck seeing as this is my first time being betrayed by anyone over anything. People just love me for some reason. Also, everyone in our social circle are completely shocked because WS isn't this person one bit. She's very overweight now after the twins 11 years ago, not just overweight. She went towards the first swinging [email protected]%k that showed interest in her, besides me of course. About 5 days every month she has bouts of endometriosis that brings lots of pain and emotional excess that I have happily quelled every time for her by whatever means necessary. 

My girlfriend/Fiancee of 15 years/4 years has been having an affair for almost a year over the phone ETC... Then sex approx. 8 weeks ago. At first it was like you know, he's just an old friend. So then I found her master plan for this----> Having sex with someone other than me.
She's been caught so she admits it all nonchalantly.
So she said... Get this.
She says: "I only did it once." She actually said it doesn't count because she only did it once. I said, One time, 50 times whatever.

BTW Great book NOT "Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass.

(You see I know this woman very well I have actually been there for her every time she needed me until she started the affair and she got me doing meth and pushed me to PC Games)

Thing is I found out some stuff a few months ago when she tried the break-up. I wanted to get on the Cell phone bill site and found a changed Password. As it turns out she changed a whole lot of passwords (warning sign) then what I found out the day before she left for Virginia to go to her sister's wedding floored me. I found out she's even been hiding her travel itinerary, strange as well right? Come to find out she had good reason to hide it. You see, she wasn't going to virginia right away no sir, she was spending 5 days in Denver first then would head to Virginia. So as any good man would do I ask her, what the hell. She then proceeds to say, she was going to stay over 5 days so she could see some old GF's I ask really, then why did you lie about it and hide it? She then started to yell and scream at me blaming everything on me. I'm like. Really??? Hows that I ask then then I get, that I was afraid to tell you because of "this". referring to my anger about the lying and not that she wanted to see old friends, well 30 years since she's seen them. So know i'm feeling something ****ty about to go down because I then I ask wait a minute I have done nothing but encourage you to hang out with GF's more and now you're trying to say you were scared to tell me. Yeah, she was scared because the entire plan for many months was so she could screw this loser piece of s#*t usurper.
Reason for all of this is she tried to break up with me out of the blue, turns out it was all staged so she could [email protected]%K ANOTHER MAN. But little did she know I would refuse to honor her misguided attempt to break up so I became a detective and found everything over time. Found out who would give her such effed up advice, turns out it's someone who had called herself a friend. So by the time I'm finding out about this stuff and many months have gone by and i'm now the last to know. The only reason she gave her this advice is because is lying and cheating too. WS went to our friend for only one thing Validation. Well of course the cheater standing next to her would say "Go for it" Instead of what she should've said "You need to go home and talk about this with BS" (misery loves company I suppose) Okay, I've heard a lot of BS but this should get an award. Our friend actually had the nerve to say: (paraphrasing) "I told to her(WS) you are a leech and she should get with this loser. (as she said to me that he's a "loser") But I didn't do it to hurt you. It's not intended to cause harm. I told WS this could be the best thing for you(as in me)..." (WHAT? How the hell could putting a 45 year old cripple out on the street be "A good thing" and not cause harm?) and she only did it because she loved me (as a friend of course) and I should just get over it because WS has never done this." Meaning she's never gone and F%@$#D ANOTHER MAN Yeah, I should hope not. It doesn't mean I'm just going to let her Go <Bleep> ANOTHER MAN without a fight. So a month and a half roll by, the whole time I'm showing her there's no reason for her to step out on me after you finally brought to my attention your needs and feelings. What you are looking for is right in front of you. She just kept being dishonest not only with me but with herself as well. For those who know true love, I could see that spark that I would give her and make her smile so big, every day after she agreed that our 15 years deserved a chance. Another thing I probably say is in 2008 I had half-a back surgery and in 2014 I started to become depressed due to continued pain, lack of ability to get a job, (not many companies hire the middle aged, with a degenerative injury, as employees. Especially nowadays) It's the chance she never gave to begin with, only because I couldn't get her to have a conversation with me even though she knew damn well she could talk to me whenever about whatever. All that was required was for her to not start by just yelling at me right away, that's not a conversation, that's a confrontation. I explained this to her about 100 times during our 15 years; All you have to do is, sit down next to me, look at me and tell me to look at you, if I don't automatically turn to you then say; I have something important to tell you. Can we talk? I would be all over that in an instant. We were doing better than I thought we have in a while. Because I finally got her to talk to me. Not yell or demand, but actually talk, have a conversation. Something I was fighting for her to do for years, even through the depression I was going through. Instead she continued to push me and push me some more until I found solace in getting kind of addicted to PC games and meth that she made sure was always right in my grasp. I just don't understand how she was able to see me in such dire straights and do nothing but place her foot upon a drowning man's head until I was completely submerged. WS obviously had other plans because even after I was working my ass off proving by way of action that a fundamental change had occurred over night.(I just returned to being myself, not so hard at all really)

Get this... A Jr. High crush. Did you hear me? A crush a pre-teen girl had on some stupid guy but of course he ignored her then, they were just little kids with crushes not full blown adult relationships, so naturally she had to [email protected]%K HIM. Because (wait for it) (Her words) I'm exactly the same as I was then. I haven't changed at all and you obviously don't know me. <Double take> What?!? I know for a fact you're full of s#*t. Over the past 15 years starting with me snatching her up and away from a dead end job in Tahoe and brought her with me back to Sacramento she started school, then finished school and finally found a great job and all the while I have to say I was influencing whom she was as a person and how she carried herself and what her beliefs in the world have all been shaped and slightly molded by me. Not this slick ******* over the phone because in person, (GROSS) but on the phone that ******* can tell her whatever he wants and she was gobbling it up with a spoon. Any of us can look good like that, over the phone. So he charmed her and messed with another man's woman. What is a person that would go and create an outlet for someone to have an affair? What do you call anyone that would seek/search out someone, knowing full well about there being a committed (Boy)Girlfriend/(Fiancé)Fiancée/(Husband)Wife that's still completely in the picture back at home and they still chose to pursue so they could..? Ruin lives? A person willing to commit acts of ill will and then leaving the original couple to cope with while their safe and not around, is what kind of person? I would and do call people like that "Morally Bankrupt Usurper". I asked WS to present this as a hypothetical to others, so she refused. Thing is he's an meth cooking ex-con that's uglier than sin and nothing else. Way to trade up WS. Now I can't help but hate her because she took that only thing I have to give that's truly mine, My loving essence if you will, wiped her ass with it then shredded it to pieces right before my eyes. You see WS toyed with my emotions and brought me great pain and anguish by doing this. The thing is after the 1.5 months of all the work I put in showing her she wasn't quite right about everything and worst of all she was being dishonest with herself by not allowing her true feelings to shine through from my mere presence. So experiencing that spark in her eyes, fun smile and all around good feeling I gave her was right there as I would gaze into her eyes I could see it. The longest she had let this happen was 2.5 hours but then she would all of a sudden realize that I was making her feel the love that never went away. Apparently she couldn't have that so then all of a sudden out of nowhere here comes the yelling and fighting over nothing mind you. Remember? WS had plans. plans to <Bleep> ANOTHER MAN. Then after all that she solidified her betrayal by getting on the plane to Denver. See, she did all of this after knowing what type of pain she was ready to use at full strength. I did it to her 8+ years prior. Seeing the pain she previously had given to me by all the lying and deceit before and after the false break-up. After knowing what her actions would do to me she did it anyway. Even after I literally begged her to not do this the day before she left and her first day in Denver. After that she refused to talk to me on the phone or return any texts. I was devastated just from the unknown. She kept telling me over that 1.5 month period that she had no contact with him. You see I had to make her use words like to have contact, because if I asked her not to call him, she would then text him instead. She made me do some agile verbal gymnastics just for piece of mind. Well she was so convincing about not contacting him, and I had nothing to worry about she wasn't going to do anything with him ever. I had asked her if she had bought him a plane ticket she said no she wasn't going to meet him at her mom's for her sister's wedding. See the verbal gymnastics? That's right it was before I knew who this Morally Bankrupt Usurper was, and that he lives in Denver. Littlerock, CO actually. I even asked her, if she was staying with old friends then why did you put a shout out to those very friends on FB when they had no idea, as a matter of fact i don't believe she even saw one of those friends while she was there. It all culminated when I finally was able to get her to give me the address where she was staying. i should add, she purposely made this comment before walking out the door to get to the airport: "Don't worry. I didn't take anything from 'the' drawer.(meaning the lingerie drawer) So I go to set up Skype so we could Skype and while browsing through my password locker. There it was. A receipt for lingerie shipped directly to his apt. in Littlerock, CO the same exact town where she was staying with someone and that someone wasn't even one of her friends, it was one of her sister's friends.

Now she says she never said she wanted to get married or that I never even proposed to her, even though I had done it twice. Once, before I had gotten a ring. Then later when I had gotten a ring did it the second time. This is continuing to vex me like crazy. As how someone could be so callous or have such a selective memory for all the wrong things. Now I have more of this story but it's just what should be expected, I guess. She won't listen to any facts whatsoever. She seems to forget any good or positive things I have done right after I present many, many examples. See she has been the source of income for the both of us. After it is all said and argued out, all she has is me not bringing money in, except for SSI that will be coming in soon. Each time I get a crack in her nonsense she'll just call the Morally Bankrupt Usurper,(after we have a truly wonderful weekend of calm and pleasure of each others company)usually on a Sunday, then the same tired arguments get paraded about as if something changed and those are valid arguments again. Which even by her admitting that they weren't valid or true arguments just days prior. I have to remain living with her, I have SSI stuff still needing to happen, which is why I don't have any money. Luckily she has no plans to move in with the Morally Bankrupt Usurper as he's hiding in CO and we live in CA. Her plans are actually, to move him here and pay for everything after I move out and to my amazement she can't even see that she plans on doing the very same thing for someone with even less prospects then I have.<Double-Take> It's the only excuse I can't argue away even though I did get semi-cripple and unable to find work while with her. I do however cook all meals, clean, and all the other things around the house that I'm able to.

Can I bring logic and reason back into our life? Or is it truly over?
Am I just a tired fool?
Is there any way to open her eyes to what's what?
Is she doomed to be defined as a Lair and a Cheater?
Am I asking too much for her to give our 15 Years the chance I believe it deserves?
Why am I doing the exact opposite of what I always said I would do if this ever happened to me?

(disclosure: I cheated 8+ years ago, it was over a month, not year(s) of betrayal and came clean immediately, lying was just killing me so I left, but when she begged for me to come back to her, and after the tough fight for my love she underwent I couldn't refuse. We worked everything out over the next few months. I truly had regrets and remorse. I hated myself for the pain I had caused her, that's why I had left. Decided to finally give myself to her 100% because she totally showed me she truly loved me. After my ex wife kinda messed me up I never really fully loved so I would never get hurt again. Time makes fools of us all?)


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Wow. That was long.

First thing that caught my attention was mention of meth. It sounded like you started doing meth. I was going to keep the question in mind but as I read on I saw another reference to you doing meth.

Ok dude, before ANYTHING, you need to get yourself clean. Go to meetings, a counsellor, possibly rehab. That **** will mess you up bad. You said it was her fault for causing you to do it. I don't meant to sound harsh but that sounds like the kind of excuse someone uses when they bash their partner. "Oh but you made me do it, if only you hadn't done X then i wouldn't have lost control". She is responsible for her deplorable ****, and you are responsible for your choices and the condition you allow your life to end up in. This is something you need to address before anything, any attempts to repair, or even work out where you two are headed.

Second thing is that I got the impression of control. It certainly sounds like a screwed up situation for you, and she has been consistently lying about meeting up with this guy for a while. This is not the repeated action of someone who is remorseful. She is not even being honest with you at all, just sneaking around. But regardless, you can't make her stay with you. You can't just lecture and talk and talk at her and beg and convince until she relents and does what you want. She is a free agent. As ****ed up as it is for you, she is free to leave you and go be with this other dude or do whatever she wants. 

Third thing... why do you want her to stay? You sound pretty livid and very unhappy and angry. I understand, it would be a pretty painful situation. I am also sorry about unfortunate situation with the disability and i can see how that can be a worry on your mind knowing that you will have to support yourself if she leaves. But this can't be a reason to try to keep her around. 

I am sorry this has happened to you but the best thing you can do for yourself right now is accept her decision as a free agent to move on, and get help for your meth problem.

Peace mate.

Edit: Before I forget, you wrote...

"The thing is after the 1.5 months of all the work I put in showing her she wasn't quite right about everything and worst of all she was being dishonest with herself by not allowing her true feelings to shine through from my mere presence. So experiencing that spark in her eyes, fun smile and all around good feeling I gave her was right there as I would gaze into her eyes I could see it. The longest she had let this happen was 2.5 hours but then she would all of a sudden realize that I was making her feel the love that never went away."

I could be wrong but i get the impression you are interpreting and seeing things in the way you want them to be. It's like you want to believe you're both in love and she's not going anywhere and you are kind of "mind reading" her in this paragraph. But from everything you have shared, I think you are deluded. Again, I am not trying to be harsh and i am not saying that in any kind of ridiculing way, but i think you need to accept the situation for what it is and accept her wishes. It just seems like in what you wrote (and this paragraph especially) you are speaking for her, in terms of how she has experienced the relationship


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> First thing that caught my attention was mention of meth. It sounded like you started doing meth. I was going to keep the question in mind but as I read on I saw another reference to you doing meth.


No, they both were doing meth, not just him.


> until she started the affair and she got me doing meth and pushed me to PC Games


Personally, find someone new. Drugs, PC games and affairs are horrible mixers. Basically, she wants a new life, giver her one. Divorce her, split everything and see what tune she sings when her lifestyle is altered.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, they both were doing meth, not just him.
> 
> Personally, find someone new. Drugs, PC games and affairs are horrible mixers. Basically, she wants a new life, giver her one. Divorce her, split everything and see what tune she sings when her lifestyle is altered.


Fortunately for the OP, they are not married, so he can just dump her without necessarily having to split everything.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Together 15 years, engaged 4 years? She probably wants you to fish or cut bait.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, they both were doing meth, not just him.
> 
> 
> Personally, find someone new. Drugs, PC games and affairs are horrible mixers. Basically, she wants a new life, giver her one. Divorce her, split everything and see what tune she sings when her lifestyle is altered.


Oh wow. Ok then. I would definitely recommend the OP splits for his own good and gets clean. Two meth heads in a relationship = from bad to worse. 

Also, given that tid bit of info, and the fact the OM is a meth dealer, well... could it be a "transactional relationship"? Friends with benefits?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

He said 15 years fiance and I went right to common law marriage from my former state. Force of habit.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

QuietSoul said:


> Oh wow. Ok then. I would definitely recommend the OP splits for his own good and gets clean. Two meth heads in a relationship = from bad to worse.


Well, he has to clarify. He does a ton of blame shifting, common for drug addicts, in the post. So, I can see your version as well.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

OP listen to the advice, get off the meth. Not worth it. Drugs cloud your judgment, were you on meth when you wrote this?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Sounds like you have a chance at a fresh start in life.

I suggest you take it. Beginning with doing meth with your cheating wife, cheating yourself, and wanting to bring logic and reason back.

If you want to bring logic and reason back into your life, start with yourself.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Cleanup on Aisle CWI!!!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I hope BashfulBull doesn't see this thread.


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## Duiker (Jun 26, 2015)

To answer the question in the post title: No, you can't. You have no power or control over her thought processes. 

I think Dr. Simon explains it perfectly. 

http://counsellingresource.com/features/2011/02/24/disturbed-characters-dont-get-it/


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

JFC... this makes my life right now look just perfect. LOL. 

I vote for leaving the fat cheating ***** and work on yourself. You both are fcked up!

I'm guessing you are a heavy MJ user and was stoned when you wrote this?


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## Giggles42Zero (Mar 19, 2016)

Just to clarify I am clean. I fully understand that I can't move forward in any way unless I'm able to think clearly. I quit any and all things in my life that may or will cause any harm to myself the day after she started this.
She's not a typical "methhead" as refereed to, she would do some on weekends, sometimes. Also, when I was saying "she made sure", she would make sure there was a fresh sack sitting there on the coffee table for me to see when I would wake up whenever I would be low or close to out. Even after I repeatedly asked her to stop.


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## Giggles42Zero (Mar 19, 2016)

That looks likely right. Not so much though. We weren't able to marry last Oct. due to complications with paperwork from my divorce 19+ years ago I needed to take care of so this Oct was then rescheduled as the date. Now she insists I never even proposed to her in the first place.


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Giggles, 

1. She told you she wants to break up
2. She is having an ongoing affair with her drug dealer and couldn't give two ****s how you feel about that
3. She continues to lie to you
4. SHE LEAVES BAGS OF METH AROUND FOR YOU WHEN YOU ARE AT YOUR MOST VULNERABLE

She does not love you. She does not want to be with you. I am sorry you are in this ****ed up situation, but you need to step back and look at what is going on here. It is not healthy. You need to let her go and move on. Stay clean. Put your sobriety above everything, especially her. Leave her to her devices (and vices) and look out for you now.


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