# Does your man listen like a girlfriend?



## firebelly1

So, here's my biggest dilemma about my marriage: my husband doesn't listen like a girlfriend does. I remember Dr. Phil saying men don't do that and I've gone back and forth over the years debating with myself about whether I should want / expect this. For those of you who are in happy relationships, does your man listen like a girlfriend or do you accept that men don't do that and have girlfriends for that purpose?


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## Coffee Amore

No, he's not a woman, so he doesn't react like women do. It took him a long time to realize that sometimes I'm just venting. I'm not looking for him to provide solutions or fix the issue for me. NOW he gets it and listens as a sounding board. But it's a skill he had to learn. It didn't come naturally to him. He's a doer and a fixer in his profession, so I think it's hard to listen and react like women do.


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## firebelly1

Coffee Amore said:


> No, he's not a woman, so he doesn't react like women do. It took him a long time to realize that sometimes I'm just venting. I'm not looking for him to provide solutions or fix the issue for me. NOW he gets it and listens as a sounding board. But it's a skill he had to learn. It didn't come naturally to him. He's a doer and a fixer in his profession, so I think it's hard to listen and react like women do.


So, how did you get him to get it - how did he get to the point where he listens as a sounding board and not a fixer?


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## Monarch

In my case we fought about it until I got it. I'm a fixer. If something is broken it gets fixed. Venting or complaining is a waste of time. I still struggle with it. When she vents I feel useless and ungenuine (ingenuine?) sitting there nodding and agreeing like a dishrag. Seriously, I love you but I need to mow the lawn, cook dinner, and walk the dog.

Men are not generally made for the role of listener. It doesn't make us bad people, it's just how many of us are wired. If you need to vent, it might be simpler and better to do it here on TAM or call a girlfriend. 

It will really blow your mind when you learn that we can't tell when you want us to just listen vs make suggestions. 

Sorry for posting in LL. It touched an area that I've learned about as a result of being married.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Yes, he does listen.  Answering back, not as much as I'd like.

I asked him if I talk to much and he says no. Many times he wont answer back thinking there's no need to. I really thought I was bugging him from my chatter and I stopped talking for a few days. When I stopped talking to him he thought something was wrong and that I was mad. He then tried really hard to start conversation like I do. Don't get me wrong, he does start many conversations normally, it's just that I talk a lot more then he does. It's nice to know that he likes it when I talk. .


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## heartsbeating

firebelly1 said:


> So, here's my biggest dilemma about my marriage: my husband doesn't listen like a girlfriend does. I remember Dr. Phil saying men don't do that and I've gone back and forth over the years debating with myself about whether I should want / expect this. For those of you who are in happy relationships, does your man listen like a girlfriend or do you accept that men don't do that and have girlfriends for that purpose?


No, he doesn't listen like a girlfriend. He listens as a husband.

I've learned (am learning) how to communicate with him through his communication with me. We all have bad days but he doesn't dig me just talking at him/venting. He's big on taking personal responsibility. I didn't get this for a time. He said to me a while ago, he can't fix it for me so I needed to take responsibility. I value this. If I'm talking through a scenario, he's straight-up in telling me his observations and offering a different perspective with my role in it. It doesn't mean I need to agree with him, but that perspective often helps me. I don't feel sensitive to this feedback because I trust he has my best interests in mind and it helps. It helps more than me just venting. 

On occasion, he'll also be there to just say "That sucks" and give me a hug. Always got to be a balance!

My girlfriends take interest in all the details whereas that won't be the way for me to communicate with him, not if I want him to listen and be interested. In this way, I try to communicate differently to when I'm speaking with a girlfriend. My girlfriends offer sound advise but he is the one I turn to. He's my best friend.


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## SimplyAmorous

Coffee Amore said:


> *No, he's not a woman, so he doesn't react like women do.*


 I see many replies like this when this sort of question arises.... so does this mean if a man is a good listener, he is not a MAN.... seriously....

I am going to say it depends on the individual man... how YOU are as a woman....your communication dynamics.....some are geared more sensitive (this is not a blight)... and ARE superb listeners ..... and some of us women are FIXERS ourselves so we do not wear him out with endless chatter and venting...(I know some of my GF's are like this & I just want to get off the phone sometimes - husband teases me about it -this one is so full of drama, and I can't HELP HER!)...her Boyfriend definitely wants her to have friends - so he doesn't pull his hair out !

I know I am a big FIXER myself....... and husband is a superb listener....

I guess this is not normal !#@#$ ... sure I need to give a GOOD venting once in a while, so does HE ... Bad day at work....he tells me all about it ... 

There is no girlfriend who could compare with him... I've always preferred talking to him over any of them. 

I am not one to think that all men are emotionally unavailable tuned out Fixers....Just not true, we have Men therapists, they are obviously great listeners to do that sort of profession.


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## heartsbeating

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am not one to think that all men are emotionally unavailable tuned out Fixers....Just not true, we have Men therapists, they are obviously great listeners to do that sort of profession.


I agree with the sentiment. 

I also feel that because he doesn't want to sit and listen to me complain (vent), that that doesn't mean he's emotionally unavailable either. I get how that might feel like being talked at from his perspective. Everyone's different. I recognize with him, that it's because he cares for me that he wants me to take responsibility where I can - and that's where our conversations lead to. This is also how I respond with him when he's sharing with me too.


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## nogutsnoglory

my wife's girlfriend just says "oh, I'm sorry" to everything my wife says. Bad day? Oh I am sorry. Kids being bad? Oh I am sorry. H not being attentive enough? Oh I am sorry.

I know this is at times all a person wants to hear, but lets keep in mind that with out men these two would complain and apologize until they were nothing more than a couple of emotional puddles. Girlfriends are nice for a woman, as they have someone to pretend to understand everything and be sensitive to their rational and often irrational complaints. Most men see this as a waste of time. 
I am attentive to my wife and she is not a huge complainer, but she is a woman so at times her emotional balance is so far off I have no idea what to think.
Guess what I say?............"Oh, I am sorry" works like a charm


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## committed4ever

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Yes, he does listen.  Answering back, not as much as I'd like.
> 
> I asked him if I talk to much and he says no. Many times he wont answer back thinking there's no need to. I really thought I was bugging him from my chatter and I stopped talking for a few days. When I stopped talking to him he thought something was wrong and that I was mad. He then tried really hard to start conversation like I do. Don't get me wrong, he does start many conversations normally, it's just that I talk a lot more then he does. It's nice to know that he likes it when I talk. .


OMG I could just cut and paste your answer and tweak a little and it is my answer!

First I KNOW I talk too much. Second my H don't always listen. But my talking has become like soothing background noise to him so he too will ask what wrong if I try to stop talking so much. And third I know how to get his attention when I REALLY need him to listen. Works for us!


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## ScarletBegonias

He listens like a human being in love with the person talking.I don't classify it as listening like a girl friend or a man friend. He listens like he truly cares about what's on my mind bc he loves me.

He listens and replies in a way that shows me he knows what I need emotionally. This isn't a male or female ability in my mind.This is what you do when you're in love.


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## Monarch

In that case I'll draw a distinction between listening and listening without trying to help. Of course I love my wife. I listen to her for hours on end. What is hard for me as a man is that for every negative situation I am constantly processing ways to make it better. Sometimes she doesn't want to hear them; she just wants someone to hear what is going on and express sympathy. The way I feel someone might listen to someone they don't really care about (I.e. hearing a problem and not trying to help).


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## John Lee

Echo the other guys here. My impulse is always "what should be done" "how to fix this" etc. I have gotten much better at listening the way she wants, with a lot of effort, but this is still always what I revert to. Most guys will never be like girlfriends, so I suggest you find a girlfriend.

For what it's worth, my wife is also completely incapable of listening to any story about my job unless it involves gossip or oddball office characters. She understands neither my triumphs nor my defeats, partly just because my work is sort of technical and she doesn't understand it. But she doesn't particularly try to, either.


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## SimplyAmorous

> He listens like a human being in love with the person talking.I don't classify it as listening like a girl friend or a man friend. He listens like he truly cares about what's on my mind bc he loves me.
> 
> He listens and replies in a way that shows me he knows what I need emotionally. This isn't a male or female ability in my mind.This is what you do when you're in love.


  way to describe it.. I too could say every word here... :smthumbup:



nogutsnoglory said:


> my wife's girlfriend just says "oh, I'm sorry" to everything my wife says. Bad day? Oh I am sorry. Kids being bad? Oh I am sorry. H not being attentive enough? Oh I am sorry.
> 
> *I know this is at times all a person wants to hear, but lets keep in mind that with out men these two would complain and apologize until they were nothing more than a couple of emotional puddles.* Girlfriends are nice for a woman, as they have someone to pretend to understand everything and be sensitive to their rational and often irrational complaints. Most men see this as a waste of time.


 I found this post rather funny.... but its true...we women CAN be like this ..... I have actually told some of my GF's, if they are looking for someone to just agree with everything they say, being a "Yes Person"...I am not it...

I ENJOY listening...but I'll also speak how I feel is the best way to deal with a situation...if what they are doing/ saying is going to hurt them further, there isn't a bunch of "Oh I am sorrys' but a plan .....many times when they start dumping on someone else (and I know it is anger, jealousy in the moment to lift themselves up-makes them feel better).....I will stick up for that person, this has annoyed some of my friends at times, but they are used to me by now...they know I give it to them straight..but of course sympathize with authentic hurt too. 



> I am attentive to my wife and she is not a huge complainer, but she is a woman so at times her emotional balance is so far off I have no idea what to think.
> Guess what I say?............"Oh, I am sorry" works like a charm


 This is funny again....I really wouldn't want my husband saying something just to pacify me, I would want it to be genuine.... even if I wouldn't like to hear what he has to say....I still invite it...I want the RIGHT perspective & I'll have to walk in it.. Of course it's important to feel like they understand why we are hurt.. (being the very emotional creatures that we are)...... but after that has been given....we gotta pick ourselves up, do something about it .. to let it GO.. 



> *committed4ever said*: First I KNOW I talk too much.


 It's true, we like to communicate more, talk about feelings and such... over men...I'm guilty [email protected]#$%.... I've asked mine, he knows he can say any thing to me, he assures me I don't talk too much...he tells me I am always interesting.. is he just saying that.. If so, he is a great actor....I'd say I WRITE far more than I talk...maybe that is a good thing!


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## SimplyAmorous

> *French Fry said*: I might be the odd one out,* but I love talking to my husband because he does listen and doesn't go into fix-it mode unless it's clear that's what I'm asking for*.


Your husband is a very smart man...

I took a class for a 24 hr volunteer hotline in my youth, some guys took the class too....the Subject of *LISTENING* was something talked about at length... what I learned was... many times just by listening to someone unload (their venting)....holding back our advice.... many times they feel better and can even talk themselves out of their own dilemmas - just by feeling heard... *and understood....*...

But so true...if we don't listen, cut them off short.. they will far less likely be "open" to what we have to say.....so Listening is a very very important art...


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## gbrad

When listening to the wife talk about her stuff one of three things happens.
1. Nod and say okay or other various responses that convey paying attention
2. Listen to a problem and try and come up with a solution to the problem so that the problem will go away and then it doesn't have to be dealt with anymore.
3. Not say anything.

I think those are all 3 very acceptable ways of listening and the wife doesn't really like any of them. It has caused some arguments.


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## Mavash.

It took both of us to work on this dynamic. I had to learn to talk LESS and he had to learn to fix LESS. I also had to learn how to communicate without putting him on the defense.

Before I start talking I'm upfront about my needs. I ask him to listen without giving advice or I'm asking for what he thinks he should do. BTW don't ask a man for advice if you've already made up your mind. If this is the case tell him upfront that you're more poll taking than seeking advice.

And when I'm done talking I thank him for listening. 

Oh and there are plenty of books out there on this subject.


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## DesertRat1978

One of my unique skills is that I can pick someone's brain like few others. When I listen to the wife, I usually do not try to fix her issues. It is more that I egg her on to keep talking. I find that if I actively listen and ask enough questions, she usually works out the issues on her own. It makes her feel important that i ask so many questions and do not judge. Some people would say that I am conducting an interview, of sorts, but it helps her.

So, to answer the question in the OP, no I do not listen like one of her girlfriends would. I do not just sit there and let her rant. I do not give advice but rather I engage her. As she has told me later, this quality was one of the key indicators that she wanted me.


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## Phenix70

My h does't just listen to me, he also "HEARS" me, which is a different thing all together.
I can tell the difference when he's only hearing me, because he tends to nod a lot, then I have to check in with him to see if he's tracking what I'm saying.
If he's not, I will either say let's discuss this at another time, or I will ask him to please reset his focus. 
It's crucial to get your partner's input when talking, it should be during a time that is convenient for you both & shouldn't take place during time when they can't give the best attention.
I wouldn't dream of going to anyone else before going to my H to talk about most things. 
We are a team, we are each other's biggest cheerleader & advocate, when there is an issue in our lives, the first person we turn to is each other.
Of course, he's not going to tell me which new BB cream is the best, that's where my GF's come in.


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## firebelly1

Monarch said:


> What is hard for me as a man is that for every negative situation I am constantly processing ways to make it better. Sometimes she doesn't want to hear them; she just wants someone to hear what is going on and express sympathy. The way I feel someone might listen to someone they don't really care about (I.e. hearing a problem and not trying to help).


I hadn't thought about it like that Monarch - that NOT trying to help fix it means you don't really care.


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## firebelly1

tyler1978 said:


> One of my unique skills is that I can pick someone's brain like few others. When I listen to the wife, I usually do not try to fix her issues. It is more that I egg her on to keep talking. I find that if I actively listen and ask enough questions, she usually works out the issues on her own. It makes her feel important that i ask so many questions and do not judge. Some people would say that I am conducting an interview, of sorts, but it helps her.
> 
> So, to answer the question in the OP, no I do not listen like one of her girlfriends would. I do not just sit there and let her rant. I do not give advice but rather I engage her. As she has told me later, this quality was one of the key indicators that she wanted me.


I love this approach. I posed the question as "listening like a girlfriend" but I think what I really mean is just active listening - my H's eyes glaze over when I tell him about my day or something I'm interested in and it makes me feel like he isn't interested in ME or my life. 

This last year (during our separation) he was diagnosed with ADD and I wonder how much that plays into our dynamic vs. just being a man who needs a bottom line. 

I found a video on youtube that I think explained the differences pretty well: Dealing With The Opposite Sex: Rapport Skills with Men & Women - YouTube


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## DesertRat1978

With my wife, I can tell when she is wanting advice or a solution. If the topic is the car, the house, how to get somewhere creatively (public transit or bike), or statistics (or sadistics, as she calls it) then I usually propose some possible solutions. This approach may not work with others. She is a teacher (I am not and never have been) and so if she is talking about work, I follow the usual approach of just listening and asking questions.

What helps our relationship is that she does the same with me just to a lesser degree. It helps that we are both quite talkative with one another. If we were not such jabber jaws, this dynamic may not be what it is.


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## Coffee Amore

firebelly1 said:


> So, how did you get him to get it - how did he get to the point where he listens as a sounding board and not a fixer?


A lot of fights! 
Then he realized I'm not asking him to solve the problem for me. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> I see many replies like this when this sort of question arises.... so does this mean if a man is a good listener, he is not a MAN.... seriously....


That's not what I said. I'm not sure where you go that, SA. You're reading too much into my response or you're projecting something that's not there. Or this is a trigger for you for something else.

I've said in many of my posts that my husband is my favorite person to talk to. A conversation with him is better than a conversation with a girlfriend. The thing we had from the start was great conversations. But he did have a tendency to try to say "this is what you should do" and I needed him to understand I wasn't looking for that. I understand where he's coming from and he knows what I'm looking for.


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## John Lee

I would put it to some of the women who complain about this: Do you make an effort to listen to your man about things he would like to talk about? Do you ever make an effort to understand one of his pet subjects better, whether it's his job, a sport, music, a hobby? In my experience, a lot women kind of shut off when guys start talking about their stuff, but still expect a sympathetic ear when it comes to their issues.


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## DvlsAdvc8

So, I'm aware of this "just listen, validate and support" phenomenon and I follow it because I've learned to, but I can't say I really understand the point of it. Why is it better to hear someone say "there there", than hear someone respond with proposed solutions? And if you don't want to take any action to solve something, what right do you really have to complain about it?

It reminds me of people who complain about elected officials, but never actually vote or take action.


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## ScarletBegonias

Not a fan of listen,validate,support for most situations unless it's about my mom or work.
Those are two situations where there's simply nothing to be done about it and I really just need to vent my frustrations sometimes and have him commiserate and say "that sucks,baby."

Everything else,feel free to give me suggestions if I'm venting unless I'm just telling you the story to get it off my chest and I've already fixed the issue.


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## DvlsAdvc8

ScarletBegonias said:


> Not a fan of listen,validate,support for most situations unless it's about my mom or work.
> Those are two situations where there's simply nothing to be done about it and I really just need to vent my frustrations sometimes and have him commiserate and say "that sucks,baby."
> 
> Everything else,feel free to give me suggestions if I'm venting unless I'm just telling you the story to get it off my chest and I've already fixed the issue.


How do you let him know which is available for suggestion and which is just venting about the unfixable?


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## John Lee

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> So, I'm aware of this "just listen, validate and support" phenomenon and I follow it because I've learned to, but I can't say I really understand the point of it. Why is it better to hear someone say "there there", than hear someone respond with proposed solutions? And if you don't want to take any action to solve something, what right do you really have to complain about it?
> 
> It reminds me of people who complain about elected officials, but never actually vote or take action.


This is another thing. Women often fail to consider how this seems to a man -- "Why does she need to vent so much? Why does she just want to complain without doing anything about her problems? Why is she being so childish and whiny?"


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## ScarletBegonias

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> How do you let him know which is available for suggestion and which is just venting about the unfixable?


He seems to just know now.He didn't at first but I was pretty clear in telling him at the beginning when I needed help vs when I needed him to just be there.

FTR,he does the same with things that bother him.Sometimes he needs me to listen and commiserate.Other times he needs suggestions.It took a lot of communication to determine our conversational/emotional needs but it's worth it in the long run.


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## Coffee Amore

John Lee said:


> I would put it to some of the women who complain about this: Do you make an effort to listen to your man about things he would like to talk about? Do you ever make an effort to understand one of his pet subjects better, whether it's his job, a sport, music, a hobby? In my experience, a lot women kind of shut off when guys start talking about their stuff, but still expect a sympathetic ear when it comes to their issues.


I do. Our first conversation ever was on a topic he loved. I listen to him talk about his favorite topics and he does the same for me. I actually understand certain topics a lot better NOW since I've listened to him. I even manage to surprise some of the guys at work when they talk about sports by interjecting things I've heard my husband say about that team. They think I know sports, but I'm really stealing things my husband told me.


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## Entropy3000

ScarletBegonias said:


> He listens like a human being in love with the person talking.I don't classify it as listening like a girl friend or a man friend. He listens like he truly cares about what's on my mind bc he loves me.
> 
> He listens and replies in a way that shows me he knows what I need emotionally. This isn't a male or female ability in my mind.This is what you do when you're in love.


It took me many years to learn that often when my wife tells me things or my daughters or my grand daughters and so on that they may not be asking me to fix a problem.

In the past I am wanting them to get to the freaking point. So that I can evaluate and help.

But I have learned that sometimes they are no just looking for a fix.

So I listen now and there may even come to a point where I will ask ... do you want me to help? If not then I listen and will let things ramble away and I go along. I will still offer a suggestion if I feel like it.

But this is just me becoming a better listener. A better husband.


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## arbitrator

*I'll be the first to confess that I am probably a lousy listener, since whenever people start to complain, I seem to have a marked tendancy to immediately go into a "fix things" mode.

And I would greatly think that it's just a major male characteristic!*


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## Mavash.

FrenchFry said:


> God, I'm glad I married a man who doesn't see my talking out a problem as childish and whiny.


There is talking about a problem and there is never shutting up or taking any action to fix said problem.

I think he meant the latter.

I'm a woman and even I have a limit to how much whining/complaining I'll tolerate.


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## John Lee

Mavash. said:


> There is talking about a problem and there is never shutting up or taking any action to fix said problem.
> 
> I think he meant the latter.
> 
> I'm a woman and even I have a limit to how much whining/complaining I'll tolerate.


Right, but it's my fault for generalizing. Some women vent excessively, to the point that it's unhealthy and counterproductive. Not all do.


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## ScarletBegonias

John Lee said:


> Some women vent excessively, to the point that it's unhealthy and counterproductive.


My mother!


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## scatty

We are the opposite. He listens very attentively, but I tend to try to find out what his point is when he talks. Sometimes I am even guilty of tuning out, as I tend to be a total flake.


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## DvlsAdvc8

FrenchFry said:


> God, I'm glad I married a man who doesn't see my talking out a problem as childish and whiny.
> 
> Maybe I'm coming at this from a different perspective, but my husband is the person who I should be talking to the most and I can't imagine being with someone who literally thinks whatever I talk about is terrible.
> 
> Don't you talk about work/school/hobbies? How is working out a problem with those not childish and whiny but a woman doing so is?


A man who complains all the time and doesn't do anything to resolve the cause of his complaints is generally not looked well upon by other men. He's whiny and ineffectual. Its sort of counter to the idea of being a man. Perhaps its culture, but this is how I was raised. You don't cry about it, you go do something about it and you don't go get help unless you actually need it. 

I think most men only talk about their problems when they don't have a solution or a plan - ie when they're stuck. I get a distinct sense from most men that they can't stand people who complain just to complain... especially other men. You even see this attitude toward a lot of the male complaints on this forum. 

Count me in as one of those who doesn't really get the listening supportive thing. I do my best to walk the walk... but really? I'm not doing anything. "Oh dear, yes... that's terrible. I'm sorry you had to go through that. That sucks." When a woman is done venting she seems to feel better and is happy for all of my support... and I'm thinking "I didn't do anything... but ok." Listening to other women be supportive in these cases and I'm amazed at how scripted it all sounds... just make sure to say "I know how that feels. That's hard. I'm sorry you had to go through that." Rinse. Repeat. I don't get it. Do you need confirmation that it was hard or that other people had the same problem?

This validation of feelings thing is lost on me. They're your feelings... doesn't matter if someone else thinks they're valid.


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## Cosmos

My SO listens, but his responses like a girlfriend. Men tend to go into fix it mode rather than play 'ain't it awful,' and don't tend to get that most women (myself included) like to discuss some things in depth before looking for solutions. He will listen, empathize and provide me with TLC, but his main priority is fixing things rather than debating them - and sometimes I just like to whine for a while!


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## Amplexor

Cosmos said:


> My SO listens, but his responses like a girlfriend. Men tend to go into fix it mode rather than play 'ain't it awful,' and don't tend to get that most women (myself included) like to discuss some things in depth before looking for solutions. He will listen, empathize and provide me with TLC, but his main priority is fixing things rather than debating them - and sometimes I just like to whine for a while!


A lot of marriages would be better off if both parties understood this. For a long time, I didn't. My wife didn't want me to take control and fix the issue with work, friends, her family...... She wanted some one to gripe to. On some days we just sit and discuss our days and she vents. I listen and am empathetic and after a while, she says, "OK. I'm done" I don't listen to her as a girlfriend, I listen to her as her husband and partner and don't jump into man-mode until it's pretty clear to me she wants my input. If not it is just part of her purging process.


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## gbrad

I know atleast for myself, the whole "fix it mode" is to help solve the issue to make the issue go away, so then we wont have to hear about the same issue over and over again.


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## ntamph

I don't understand why some people think listening is a feminine trait.

I had two classes with a ridiculously hot girl (model hot) in college. Even though she was gorgeous, she also liked death metal and literary criticism. Basically, a walking goddess.

Since we were in the same classes we would say "Hi" to each other but not much else. I would try and strike up a convo but it was awkward.

One day as class was walking out I asked her why her coat was covered in hair. She said it was from playing with her cat. I hate cats but saw that she loved the thing when she wanted to show me a picture of it. I had just read some Dale Carnegie and by the grace of God remembered to talk about people's interests. So I kept asking her about her cat, animals, her family, whatever. She was very excited to be talking about herself and didn't want to part when I had a different class.

She wasn't into me romantically, but she became a close friend. Listening to women has its rewards.


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## Dad&Hubby

firebelly1 said:


> So, how did you get him to get it - how did he get to the point where he listens as a sounding board and not a fixer?


HAHAHA, what a great question.

My wife and I had this as an issue early in our marriage.

She'd state a problem/issue and I'd look for solutions.

That's how men are instinctually. We look to solve problems when problems arise.

It's not that we can't be sounding boards, it's just not what we do "normally".

My wife said to me one time, sometimes I just need you to sit there and let me vent. Add in to the conversation, but don't look to solve it. I'll let you know when I need that.

So from that day forward, she says things like "I just need to vent here...." and then I can put my "no fix it" ears on.

You should have the same conversation with your husband.


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## DvlsAdvc8

ntamph said:


> I don't understand why some people think listening is a feminine trait.
> 
> I had two classes with a ridiculously hot girl (model hot) in college. Even though she was gorgeous, she also liked death metal and literary criticism. Basically, a walking goddess.
> 
> Since we were in the same classes we would say "Hi" to each other but not much else. I would try and strike up a convo but it was awkward.
> 
> One day as class was walking out I asked her why her coat was covered in hair. She said it was from playing with her cat. I hate cats but saw that she loved the thing when she wanted to show me a picture of it. I had just read some Dale Carnegie and by the grace of God remembered to talk about people's interests. So I kept asking her about her cat, animals, her family, whatever. She was very excited to be talking about herself and didn't want to part when I had a different class.
> 
> She wasn't into me romantically, but she became a close friend. Listening to women has its rewards.


That's listening. "Listening like a girlfriend", imo, is empathizing... perhaps with some social drama for good measure.

I listen. I empathize. I propose solutions to problems. Solutions get ignored... and I subsequently lose the ability to empathize.

Social drama goes in one ear and out the other. One thing I notice about being single is that I've become completely unaware of all the drama, family issues and medical status of just about everyone I know.


----------



## gbrad

ntamph said:


> I don't understand why some people think listening is a feminine trait.
> 
> I had two classes with a ridiculously hot girl (model hot) in college. Even though she was gorgeous, she also liked death metal and literary criticism. Basically, a walking goddess.
> 
> Since we were in the same classes we would say "Hi" to each other but not much else. I would try and strike up a convo but it was awkward.
> 
> One day as class was walking out I asked her why her coat was covered in hair. She said it was from playing with her cat. I hate cats but saw that she loved the thing when she wanted to show me a picture of it. I had just read some Dale Carnegie and by the grace of God remembered to talk about people's interests. So I kept asking her about her cat, animals, her family, whatever. She was very excited to be talking about herself and didn't want to part when I had a different class.
> 
> She wasn't into me romantically, but she became a close friend. Listening to women has its rewards.


That is called the friendzone. Not a great place to be. You think it has potential so you keep going for it, but screwed in the end. Been there done that.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

gbrad said:


> ...but *not* screwed in the end.


fify.


----------



## arbitrator

gbrad said:


> *That is called the friendzone. Not a great place to be. You think it has potential so you keep going for it, but screwed in the end. Been there done that.*


*Yes, totally! You get screwed all right! Just not in bed!*


----------



## Cosmos

Amplexor said:


> A lot of marriages would be better off if both parties understood this. For a long time, I didn't. My wife didn't want me to take control and fix the issue with work, friends, her family...... She wanted some one to gripe to. On some days we just sit and discuss our days and she vents. I listen and am empathetic and after a while, she says, "OK. I'm done" I don't listen to her as a girlfriend, I listen to her as her husband and partner and don't jump into man-mode until it's pretty clear to me she wants my input. If not it is just part of her purging process.


Exactly. Eventually I told my SO: "No, I don't want a solution (just yet), and I don't need you to fix this. I just need to whinge for a little while!" Getting it out in the open helped us understand one another much better.


----------



## heartsbeating

tyler1978 said:


> One of my unique skills is that I can pick someone's brain like few others. When I listen to the wife, I usually do not try to fix her issues. It is more that I egg her on to keep talking. I find that if I actively listen and ask enough questions, she usually works out the issues on her own. It makes her feel important that i ask so many questions and do not judge. Some people would say that I am conducting an interview, of sorts, but it helps her.
> 
> So, to answer the question in the OP, no I do not listen like one of her girlfriends would. I do not just sit there and let her rant. I do not give advice but rather I engage her. As she has told me later, this quality was one of the key indicators that she wanted me.


This is similar to my husband. While he does give advice/his perspective, it's usually after he's asked questions and engaged with me. I in turn ask questions and think it through and come to the decision of how I might approach it - with his help. He shares similarly with me also. 

Other times it's just sharing about our day or various things of interest. He listens and engages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Coffee Amore said:


> That's not what I said. I'm not sure where you go that, SA. You're reading too much into my response or you're projecting something that's not there. Or this is a trigger for you for something else.


 I just happened to quote your words is all.. and yes, I could be reading too much into your intentional meaning... it happens... many of the opening posts seemed to follow a similar response.... so Yes, I did take this as a generalization on men's listening skills...to some degree.. 

I am not the only one who sees this in some of the responses...Ntamph said is also...


> *ntamph said*: *I don't understand why some people think listening is a feminine trait.*


 The author of "*Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus*" would likely even say similar...I could easily see it...having read the book and thinking to myself.. "My husband doesn't fit all [email protected]#"... He is as good as any girlfriend here...shouldn't I feel a little embarrassed saying this when some feel as your words >> "No, he's not a woman, so he doesn't react like women do".

No... No triggers here...(that only happens if I want more out of him).....Not the case here, I really couldn't ask for more in this area....I feel it would be very difficult if he was pushing me towards my Gfs - struggling to really listen to me when I needed to talk...(as some of the experiences here).... that would be very frustrating as a wife...

This is one of the things that keeps us very close/ very connected..and I deeply appreciate in a man. 



> I've said in many of my posts that my husband is my favorite person to talk to. A conversation with him is better than a conversation with a girlfriend.


 It's very important to have this ...Yes, you have always talked in this favorable light about your husband, your marriage. :thumbup: :thumbup:



> The thing we had from the start was great conversations. But he did have a tendency to try to say "this is what you should do" and I needed him to understand I wasn't looking for that. I understand where he's coming from and he knows what I'm looking for.


It's good you worked this through..... as you can see from the posts on this thread... this is a very common issue for many...

For us..Temperament wise, I am more of the *Brain-stormer* and *Doer* = *Fixer*....(also higher on the *Thinking *scale - whereas he is higher on the *Feeling*)...and he has more of a *Peacemaker nature* about him...and team spirit -*being that helper.* 

These things combined...it likely has us meeting in a very similar place...even though Yes, me being a woman with mid life Pms.... can still get me more emotional than any man would like to deal with ...at times...still this has flowed very nicely for us...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

arbitrator said:


> *I'll be the first to confess that I am probably a lousy listener, since whenever people start to complain, I seem to have a marked tendancy to immediately go into a "fix things" mode.
> 
> And I would greatly think that it's just a major male characteristic!*


 I do this, I will listen to a certain amount of Drama before I can't take it any longer...I'll say something like "Stop... please hear me out for a moment...can I interject ?" (something to this effect).....as I am compelled to give a constructive spill on how to stop the MADNESS...



tyler1978 said:


> *One of my unique skills is that I can pick someone's brain like few others*. When I listen to the wife, I usually do not try to fix her issues. It is more that I egg her on to keep talking.* I find that if I actively listen and ask enough questions, she usually works out the issues on her own.* It makes her feel important that i ask so many questions and do not judge. Some people would say that I am conducting an interview, of sorts, but it helps her.


 Love your post Tyler1978....I am a brain picker too.. and enjoy it for the most part...if one presents *JUST the right questions*....a # of things happen here....

*1.* You are withholding judgement - which sometimes causes defenses if the woman is not ready to hear your thoughts...

*2.* *You are arousing her reasoning *-which leads her to THINK over her own behavior...this often leads to ..and she talks herself out of her own dilemma...

Communication like you describe is an amazing tool ...to help others. 

*3.* Asking these questions actively shows you are hearing her, interested...*Engaging* is very beneficial. 



> So, to answer the question in the OP, no I do not listen like one of her girlfriends would. I do not just sit there and let her rant. I do not give advice *but rather I engage her. *As she has told me later, this quality was one of the key indicators that she wanted me.


 :smthumbup: I would feel the same...I dearly love when my husband engages me....and I so enjoy this form of communication... to a high degree.


----------



## staarz21

My husband barely knows I'm talking half of the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias

staarz21 said:


> My husband barely knows I'm talking half of the time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This makes me so sad.I spent years married to a man like that.It really chips away at your confidence and self worth over time.


----------



## arbitrator

*I really subscribe to the psychological/biological theory that men and women are genetically programmed differently. 

But that in no way implies that we can't become much more understanding of each others traits and innate characteristics!*


----------



## Lon

gbrad said:


> When listening to the wife talk about her stuff one of three things happens.
> 1. Nod and say okay or other various responses that convey paying attention
> 2. Listen to a problem and try and come up with a solution to the problem so that the problem will go away and then it doesn't have to be dealt with anymore.
> 3. Not say anything.
> 
> I think those are all 3 very acceptable ways of listening and the wife doesn't really like any of them. It has caused some arguments.


why not try for this one, as an experiment:

4. give all your attention to what she is saying, don't put a timeline on it, just listen, try to emulate in your mind's eye the feeling she is trying to convey, pay enough attention to the details that she doesn't have to repeat anything significant, only speak when you want clarification, make sure she is confident you understand as best as possible what she is telling you, and only give her feedback with your body language and eyes. If she pauses for a signal from you that you either agree with her or disagree, then acknowledge it with a clear answer, occassionally repeating back some of the things she has told you in order for you to stay in the same zone as she is in. She doesn't want canned responses from you, she wants a connection with you.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

arbitrator said:


> *I really subscribe to the psychological/biological theory that men and women are genetically programmed differently.
> 
> But that in no way implies that we can't become much more understanding of each others traits and innate characteristics!*


Do you notice that "become more understanding" only seems to apply to men? When she complains about something, she's not advised to value the solutions he offers, rather he's advised to stop offering solutions.

Maybe I'm just tired here at the end of the work day, but now that I think of it, I can't seem to recall instances where women are asked to react more like men. Am I wrong? Anyone have examples? Honestly, if it is valid to tell a man not to problem solve - to "listen like a girlfriend" if you will, is it any less valid to tell a woman she should act more like a man and not complain just to complain?


----------



## Runs like Dog

I offer zero advice zero criticism and zero suggestions. I figure that if she's telling me anything at all it's because she's already told everyone else. Just nod and tell her all those other b^tches should die.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Runs like Dog said:


> tell her all those other b^tches should die.


Does that qualify as offering a solution? lol


----------



## ScarletBegonias

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Does that qualify as offering a solution? lol


To offer solution would be to detail how those b*tches should die in a way that wouldn't cast suspicion her way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## always_alone

SimplyAmorous said:


> I could easily see it...having read the book and thinking to myself.. "My husband doesn't fit all [email protected]#"... He is as good as any girlfriend here...shouldn't I feel a little embarrassed saying this when some feel as your words >> "No, he's not a woman, so he doesn't react like women do".
> 
> No... No triggers here...(that only happens if I want more out of him).....


Equally problematic to my mind is the picture or women painted here. When I discuss a problem, I'm usually looking for a new perspective, more information, or a practical solution. 

My SO is brilliant for all of these, and often has empathy as well. 

And some conversations are just about sharing our experiences or observations. We both listen to each other.

I've never understood this men from Mars/women from Venus thing -- and doubt that you or your husband are as far from the norm as you say


----------



## gbrad

Lon said:


> why not try for this one, as an experiment:
> 
> 4. give all your attention to what she is saying, don't put a timeline on it, just listen, try to emulate in your mind's eye the feeling she is trying to convey, pay enough attention to the details that she doesn't have to repeat anything significant, only speak when you want clarification, make sure she is confident you understand as best as possible what she is telling you, and only give her feedback with your body language and eyes. If she pauses for a signal from you that you either agree with her or disagree, then acknowledge it with a clear answer, occassionally repeating back some of the things she has told you in order for you to stay in the same zone as she is in. She doesn't want canned responses from you, she wants a connection with you.


But when it is the same type of complaints over and over again (not always but often), I don't care to listen anymore. I just want the issues solved and move on.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

always_alone said:


> Equally problematic to my mind is the picture or women painted here. When I discuss a problem, I*'m usually looking for a new perspective, more information, or a practical solution. *
> 
> *My SO is brilliant for all of these, and often has empathy as well*.
> 
> And some conversations are just about sharing our experiences or observations. We both listen to each other.
> 
> I've never understood this men from Mars/women from Venus thing -- and doubt that you or your husband are as far from the norm as you say


Thank you Always_Alone, I really like what you say here...

A few hours ago, I almost did another post trying to take it back that NO, my husband is NOT REALLY LIKE a GIRLFRIEND, because of the way women are being portrayed on this thread ..this makes him sound BAD - and that is what I said, defended even ! 

I am not like some of the women spoken of here... but more as you describe in your post...and he is like you describe your SO as well..... it is just a mutual communication thing... he is my center, He is my Home.... we both offer empathy... he rarely has a bad day, but when he does, he knows he can open up..I am there for him...I want to hear about it ...we all need to vent once in a while to someone.... and I know I can take ANYTHING to him day or night ....and I will he heard, hugged, and cared for.... this is just LOVING really.. male or female.. 

I never really thought about this too much in comparisons -till this thread came up. 

I tend to feel these things depend on the individual couple, how their *temperaments *mesh even ...in communication...

If one is HIGH on the *Thinking/ analyzing scale* (more the Fixer type, generally men)...and the other is HIGH on the *Feeling scale *(more emotional - generally woman, not to mention our fluctuating hormones to compound this)...a couple may have a hard time finding that balance in understanding why they are so different....struggling to meet each other half way.

A fine example is the INTP  Temperament (one of 16 types).... he is likely the worst temperament when it comes to understanding the emotional needs of a partner.. it says this in his Profile... 



> *Weaknesses *:
> Not naturally in tune with others' feelings; slow to respond to emotional needs
> Not naturally good at expressing their own feelings and emotions....
> 
> *The largest area of potential strife in an INTP's intimate relationship is their slowness in understanding and meeting their partner's emotional needs*. The INTP may be extremely dedicated to the relationship, and deeply in love with their partner, *but may have no understanding of their mate's emotional life, and may not express their own feelings often or well.*
> 
> When the INTP does express themselves, it's likely to be in their own way at their own time, rather than in response to their partner's needs. If this is an issue which has caused serious problems in a relationship, *the INTP should work on becoming more aware of their partner's feelings,* and their partner should work on not requiring explicit positive affirmation to feel loved by the INTP.
> 
> INTPs do not like to deal with messy complications, such as interpersonal conflict, and so they may fall into the habit of ignoring conflict when it occurs. *If they feel they must face the conflict, they're likely to approach it from an analytical perspective. This may aggravate the conflict situation, if their partner simply wants to feel that they are supported and loved.
> 
> **Most people (and especially those with the Feeling preference) simply want to be encouraged, affirmed and supported when they are upset.* The INTP should practice meeting these needs in conflict situations.


Test links within this thread -if anyone is interested >>

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ments-our-spouses-better-understand-them.html


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Does your man listen like a girlfriend?*



gbrad said:


> But when it is the same type of complaints over and over again (not always but often), I don't care to listen anymore. I just want the issues solved and move on.


But it's not about the complaint, it is about her need to express her emotions with you. Your lack of sympathy is what causes her to complain about the same thing over and over. Yes she wants you to suffer along with her, you can either ignore her leave her or else remove the obstacle for her because she is stuck and can't do it herself and needs help.


----------



## Jellybeans

Does anyone WANT their man to be like their girlfriends? i personally wouldn't.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

FrenchFry said:


> heehee, I think I've said this before but I'm an INTP and my husband is an ENTJ.


Oh I got a good one for you FrenchFry, another fellow Poster is also an* INTP* *>>*'s advocate... earlier on another thread I noticed you posting how he is so "black & White" in this thinking & you have a difficult time with him...

... Now he fully admits outright, he has little time or care for women's emotions, he'll even say he doesn't understand it...why they need so much, he'd rather run from it.....I was curious & asked what his temperament was on a thread a while back...

Then it all made a little more sense.... I would think the wives who are naturally geared Thinkers (like yourself)...not needing as much...would also have less of a communication breakdown with their husband's....who are Thinkers... When things are running smoothly ...anyway.

Just my assumptions of course.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Jellybeans said:


> *Does anyone WANT their man to be like their girlfriends? i personally wouldn't*.


I guess it's in how one sees their girlfriends and what they offer... in listening...if this has the power to uplift them and soothe them.....If a woman has a man she* can't talk to * or has great difficulty here ...feeling rebuffed / ignored... her Gf's become like a "lifeline"...her closest moral support... 

If this was the case.... I can see where she would want a relationship with him that had *those same elements*...I am sure this is what the OP , Firebelly1, was getting at..in comparing the 2. 

Ever since I met my husband, he's been my Best friend....before him I Had a best Girlfriend....It used to run to her with every secret, every care.....but then it became him....and has always been...

A couple of my Girlfriends I can only stand for so long.....they go on a little too much for my liking.....I start to get bored, restless even.....and yeah..I end up being the main listener....which is Ok for a stretch of time.... but with my husband, it just seems more "give & take" is going on...and I much appreciate that... 



> *FrenchFry said:* Yeah, outside people observing my husband and I's conversations will tell us that we look like we are working out a plot to take over the world. Which may or may not be true.


 Yep! It says this about your type on that link... *Thinkers* are the ones who bring about change/ conquering the world, so to speak...the *Feelers* ride in with the Inspiration & Enthusiasm (at least when it's positive!).... 



> INTPs live in the world of theoretical possibilities. They see everything in terms of how it could be improved, or what it could be turned into. They live primarily inside their own minds, having the ability to analyze difficult problems, identify patterns, and come up with logical explanations. They seek clarity in everything, and are therefore driven to build knowledge. They are the "absent-minded professors", who highly value intelligence and the ability to apply logic to theories to find solutions. They typically are so strongly driven to turn problems into logical explanations, that they live much of their lives within their own heads, and may not place as much importance or value on the external world. Their natural drive to turn theories into concrete understanding may turn into a feeling of personal responsibility to solve theoretical problems, and help society move towards a higher understanding.
> 
> INTPs value knowledge above all else. Their minds are constantly working to generate new theories, or to prove or disprove existing theories.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Does your man listen like a girlfriend?*



SimplyAmorous said:


> I guess it's in how one sees their girlfriends and what they offer... in listening...if this has the power to uplift them and soothe them.....If a woman has a man she* can't talk to * or has great difficulty here ...feeling rebuffed / ignored... her Gf's become like a "lifeline"...her closest moral support...
> 
> If this was the case.... I can see where she would want a relationship with him that had *those same elements*...I am sure this is what the OP , Firebelly1, was getting at..in comparing the 2.
> 
> Ever since I met my husband, he's been my Best friend....before him I Had a best Girlfriend....It used to run to her with every secret, every care.....but then it became him....and has always been...
> 
> A couple of my Girlfriends I can only stand for so long.....they go on a little too much for my liking.....I start to get bored, restless even.....and yeah..I end up being the main listener....which is Ok for a stretch of time.... but with my husband, it just seems more "give & take" is going on...and I much appreciate that...
> 
> Yep! It says this about your type on that link... *Thinkers* are the ones who bring about change/ conquering the world, so to speak...the *Feelers* ride in with the Inspiration & Enthusiasm (at least when it's positive!)....


Intp here, you called? At some point though, an intp will burn out internally and realize that despite all the accrued knowledge he hasn't affected the world around him the way he would like at all. Self awareness is too overwhelming, when we achieve it, it becomes very depressing and deflating.


----------



## cookingirl78

I hate the "men don't listen" and "aren't capable of sharing emotions" stereotype. Plenty of men are great listeners. Some of the best deep, emotional conversations I have had in my life were with men.

Anyone can become a great listener if they care enough. You need to tell your husband that you need his emotional support. And then you need to make sure you are open to listening to him whenever or if ever he needs it. It can't be a one way street.


----------



## moco82

The worst thing for me is listening to what's being vented and feeling incredible guilt if it's something I can't fix. It took years to learn not to take the contents of the complaints seriously and to not let it eat me up inside. She didn't realize that, either, until one time I had a mini break-down, as the extra problems I thought were being put on my plate came on top of a huge back-log of work and household things I had to somehow resolve in the next 48 hours. I guess this inability to multitask may seem almost autistic to women.


----------



## John Lee

moco82 said:


> The worst thing for me is listening to what's being vented and feeling incredible guilt if it's something I can't fix. It took years to learn not to take the contents of the complaints seriously and to not let it eat me up inside. She didn't realize that, either, until one time I had a mini break-down, as the extra problems I thought were being put on my plate came on top of a huge back-log of work and household things I had to somehow resolve in the next 48 hours. I guess this inability to multitask may seem almost autistic to women.


THIS. I used to always feel so guilty and horrible when I would think "she has all these problems I can't fix." "She's so stressed out yet I don't know if I have time to do any more than I'm doing to help." "She's unhappy in her job, yet I don't make enough money for her to just quit and live the life she wants." etc. It took a while to realize that she wasn't telling me she wanted me to fix her problems.


----------



## COGypsy

FrenchFry said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Well, that makes sense, actually.
> 
> Yeah, outside people observing my husband and I's conversations will tell us that we look like we are working out a plot to take over the world. Which may or may not be true.


Now that winter seems to be running roughshod all over fall, my BF and I spend a LOT of time hatching our plans for world domination. Er....I mean snuggling and watching Dr. Who. Whichever.....


----------



## TiggyBlue

For me personally I talk to my husband about a lot of things I wouldn't talk to my friends about . He is the one of the few people who knows me through and through and I'm comfortable talking to about things if I need to vent/purge.







SimplyAmorous said:


> A fine example is the INTP  Temperament (one of 16 types).... he is likely the worst temperament when it comes to understanding the emotional needs of a partner.. it says this in his Profile...
> 
> 
> 
> Test links within this thread -if anyone is interested >>
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ments-our-spouses-better-understand-them.html


Thanks SA, I've been wondering what people where talking about with the personality types.


----------



## moco82

John Lee said:


> "She's unhappy in her job, yet I don't make enough money for her to just quit and live the life she wants." etc. It took a while to realize that she wasn't telling me she wanted me to fix her problems.


The job thing was the worst. It solved itself when she didn't go back after our son was born--it was just incompatible with parenthood. At the same time I found a job that allowed for her to stay at home for a few months, and then find a relaxed yet professional part-time job.


----------



## marshmallow

My fiance will listen to an extent. I can tell him my deepest, darkest issues, I can tell him when I'm having a bad day. He really is my best friend, and we have an easy time talking with one another.

However, trying to get him to give input or an opinion is difficult, because he always wants to give the right answer, which is slightly hilarious, I guess.


----------



## COGypsy

FrenchFry said:


> High five fellow "what the heck happened to fall in CO buddy!"


Back at ya! Snow flurries most of the day yesterday--I haven't even had a chance to get my coats back from the cleaners yet! I almost had to go shopping, but it was too cold!


----------



## always_alone

SimplyAmorous said:


> A fine example is the INTP  Temperament (one of 16 types).... he is likely the worst temperament when it comes to understanding the emotional needs of a partner.. it says this in his Profile...


Heh. I just took one of the tests you posted and confirmed that I am INTP. Does that mean I'm from Mars too?

j/k. I definitely agree that personality type helps more to understand communication difficulties than gender.

My SO is probably ENTP (maybe ESTP --he's not here to confirm, so I'm making my best guess). Basically I think that means we'll get along, but will never take over the world.


----------



## always_alone

Lon said:


> Intp here, you called? At some point though, an intp will burn out internally and realize that despite all the accrued knowledge he hasn't affected the world around him the way he would like at all. Self awareness is too overwhelming, when we achieve it, it becomes very depressing and deflating.


Too overwhelming, or just incredibly anti-climactic?

The unexamined life may not be worth living, but at the same time "you are what observes, not what you observe”


----------



## always_alone

FrenchFry said:


> always_alone, look how rare female INTPs are:
> 
> INTP - Engineer	population 2.5% male	4% female	1%
> 
> (also makes sense. :smthumbup


Intriguing. I was just idly wondering whether there weren't stats on the frequency of personality type by gender. Thanks for the link!

Also helps to explain why I usually feel like I'm from Pluto, rather than Venus or Mars.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

always_alone said:


> Heh. I just took one of the tests you posted and confirmed that I am INTP. Does that mean I'm from Mars too?
> 
> j/k. I definitely agree that personality type helps more to understand communication difficulties than gender.
> 
> My SO is probably ENTP (maybe ESTP --he's not here to confirm, so I'm making my best guess). Basically I think that means we'll get along, but will never take over the world.


My husband is an ISFJ -this is the same temperament as Mother Teresa...they love to be needed, make the most dependable faithful workers, lovers...but so naturally passive that others take them for granted....overwhelmingly more women are this temperament over men... If I recall right, 28% are women to 8% men....

Heck I am probably an XXXJ....in my youth, I came out more Introverted, Today I come out more Extroverted... the next one I have been split *(iNtuitive* / *Sensing)*....
and the (*Thinking* /*Feeling*) could go either way when I take these tests....but one thing is always true of me.... I am a *Judger*!!



> *always_alone, look how rare female INTPs are:*
> 
> *INTP* - Engineer	population 2.5% male	4% *female	1%*


You 2 are special  -- now that is RARE ! I find this subject wholly fascinating, and have a # of books on it.


----------



## TiggyBlue

FrenchFry said:


> always_alone, look how rare female INTPs are:
> 
> INTP - Engineer	population 2.5% male	4% female	1%
> 
> (also makes sense. :smthumbup


Show off


----------



## Lon

Err, wait I'm no intp, I'm infj (or so those personality indicator tests usually suggest). I got it backwards


----------



## always_alone

SimplyAmorous said:


> Heck I am probably an XXXJ....in my youth, I came out more Introverted, Today I come out more Extroverted... the next one I have been split *(iNtuitive* / *Sensing)*....


I've taken multiple variations of this test over the years, always with the same result. The only score that is even remotely a contender for changing is the T, as I do seem to have a bit of F in the mix. But always with the INTP.

They say consistency is a virtue, but isn't change is a sign of growth?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Lon said:


> Err, wait I'm no intp, I'm infj (or so those personality indicator tests usually suggest). I got it backwards


Ya know I almost did a post to you cause I was thinking..Damn Lon, you are NOTHING like 's advocate [email protected]# .....It just didn't seem right to me, you seemed a FEELER more so....given your posts and warmer empathetic personality... yeah..this makes much more sense!


----------



## TiggyBlue

lol I'm different a different type with different tests, typical


----------



## SimplyAmorous

always_alone said:


> I've taken multiple variations of this test over the years, always with the same result. The only score that is even remotely a contender for changing is the T, as I do seem to have a bit of F in the mix. But always with the INTP.
> 
> *They say consistency is a virtue, but isn't change is a sign of growth*?


I look at this a little different, not that I know how this works...I am assuming given some of the tests I have taken and observing how some people just ARE.....

But the fact it changes for some of us ...or we get an X (some tests given an X at the end....this happens to me...this just means we are teetering in the middle of those 2 things (*Thinking* vs *Feeling* )....which really is a GOOD THING.....we can relate to more people - having a nice taste of each.....

I tend to see a BAR for each .....as for example...a person can be intensely *Introverted*...(this has it's issues in getting along in society) or be closer up the ladder to *Extrovertism*.. which would help him or her get along with more people...be more outgoingly social ... relating to his outside world. 

Some women who are FEELING may be HIGH on that bar of FEELING (intense)...causing her to be *overly emotional* than the average woman who is more balanced- moving up that bar to Thinking...... 

And also true, some *Thinkers* could be SO HIGH on the bar they can not relate to people who show any emotion at all - I've had a few conversations with those types and I walk away thinking to myself...", am I ever thankful my husband is a FEELER!!! " 

Does this make sense?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

FrenchFry said:


> I'ma make a thread about types so I stop threadjacking.


 Take it here...Can always post on mine........it has all the tests & links ..ready to go... sorry for getting off the subject...though I think our temperaments can and often DO play a part in this very subject...it has it's relevance.


----------



## TiggyBlue

SimplyAmorous said:


> though I think our temperaments can and often DO play a part in this very subject...it has it's relevance.


:iagree:
I see it as more of a personality conflict vs man/woman conflict sometimes.


----------



## always_alone

SimplyAmorous said:


> I look at this a little different, not that I know how this works...I am assuming given some of the tests I have taken and observing how some people just ARE.....
> 
> But the fact it changes for some of us ...or we get an X (some tests given an X at the end....this happens to me...this just means we are teetering in the middle of those 2 things (*Thinking* vs *Feeling* )....which really is a GOOD THING.....we can relate to more people - having a nice taste of each.....


I agree. Balance is a good thing! But I also think the results have a lot to do with the way the questions are asked. For example, if you ask me whether I prefer to be alone or in a social group, and give me only those two choices, I will pick alone every time. Not because I don't enjoy good conversation or am too shy, or even go a bit nutso if I spend too much time alone, but because on balance I find socializing to be exhausting and unrewarding, and would much rather be by myself than engaging in casual chitchat. 

Plus, the scenarios they ask about often contain quite a few assumptions, which can affect how you answer.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

always_alone said:


> I agree. Balance is a good thing! But I also think the results have a lot to do with the way the questions are asked. For example, if you ask me whether I prefer to be alone or in a social group, and give me only those two choices, I will pick alone every time. *Not because I don't enjoy good conversation or am too shy, or even go a bit nutso if I spend too much time alone, but because on balance I find socializing to be exhausting and unrewarding, and would much rather be by myself than engaging in casual chitchat. *


 Introvert written all over that!



> Plus, the scenarios they ask about often contain quite a few assumptions, which can affect how you answer.


This is why they ask SOOOOO MANY questions with very similar scenarios - to get the overall *balance* ...where one falls on that scale...

I personally get bored with surface communication (How's the weather? ...YAWN  !)....Although I highly enjoy talking to people....I prefer more meat to the conversation...some seriousness...intellectual...along with some joking...this makes me teteering between a Introvert and an Extrovert. Also it depends on the type of people I am around (this is absolutely huge)... some I would probably want to throw off a cliff and rather go clean a toilet than to put up with them...and others I could BS all night long into the sun rising up .... and love every minute of it ..


----------



## ScarletBegonias

always_alone said:


> I agree. Balance is a good thing! But I also think the results have a lot to do with the way the questions are asked. For example, if you ask me whether I prefer to be alone or in a social group, and give me only those two choices, I will pick alone every time. Not because I don't enjoy good conversation or am too shy, or even go a bit nutso if I spend too much time alone, but because on balance I find socializing to be exhausting and unrewarding, and would much rather be by myself than engaging in casual chitchat.


:iagree: that's my husband as well as me 

well,we'd pick to be alone together instead of just alone.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

SimplyAmorous said:


> Thank you Always_Alone, I really like what you say here...
> 
> A few hours ago, I almost did another post trying to take it back that NO, my husband is NOT REALLY LIKE a GIRLFRIEND, because of the way women are being portrayed on this thread ..this makes him sound BAD - and that is what I said, defended even !
> 
> I am not like some of the women spoken of here... but more as you describe in your post...and he is like you describe your SO as well..... it is just a mutual communication thing... he is my center, He is my Home.... we both offer empathy... he rarely has a bad day, but when he does, he knows he can open up..I am there for him...I want to hear about it ...we all need to vent once in a while to someone.... and I know I can take ANYTHING to him day or night ....and I will he heard, hugged, and cared for.... this is just LOVING really.. male or female..
> 
> I never really thought about this too much in comparisons -till this thread came up.
> 
> I tend to feel these things depend on the individual couple, how their *temperaments *mesh even ...in communication...
> 
> If one is HIGH on the *Thinking/ analyzing scale* (more the Fixer type, generally men)...and the other is HIGH on the *Feeling scale *(more emotional - generally woman, not to mention our fluctuating hormones to compound this)...a couple may have a hard time finding that balance in understanding why they are so different....struggling to meet each other half way.
> 
> A fine example is the INTP  Temperament (one of 16 types).... he is likely the worst temperament when it comes to understanding the emotional needs of a partner.. it says this in his Profile...
> 
> 
> 
> Test links within this thread -if anyone is interested >>
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ments-our-spouses-better-understand-them.html



Haha... I'm INTP.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Haha...* I'm INTP*.


Yep...if you kept reading, you will notice I mentioned you twice on this thread 



> * Simplyamorous said*: Oh I got a good one for you FrenchFry, another fellow Poster is also an INTP >>'s advocate... earlier on another thread I noticed you posting how he is so "black & White" in this thinking & you have a difficult time with him...
> 
> ... Now he fully admits outright, he has little time or care for women's emotions, he'll even say he doesn't understand it...why they need so much, he'd rather run from it.....I was curious & asked what his temperament was on a thread a while back...


And to Lon's post -with a correction he was a FEELER instead, I said >>


> Ya know I almost did a post to you cause I was thinking..Damn Lon, you are NOTHING like 's advocate [email protected]# .....It just didn't seem right to me, you seemed a FEELER more so....given your posts and warmer empathetic personality... yeah..this makes much more sense!


Couldn't help myself -had to use you as an example as you are a known personality here.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

always_alone said:


> Heh. I just took one of the tests you posted and confirmed that I am INTP. Does that mean I'm from Mars too?


I would just like to state that I totally called this many months ago in some other thread!  Right on the money. The characteristics are prominent in the style/nature of the arguments you make (thought I think you have a lot of F that creeps in and creates some... oddities haha). Multiple times I've felt more like I was arguing with a male (no insult intended whatsoever) by my association of males with the type.

INTP is very rare in females. I'd imagine having our personality type, in a female body, would cause a lot of people to mistakenly believe you a hard @ss or cold bish. Am I right? I get a lot of flak for certain characteristics of the type, and I imagine it would be two-fold for a female.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Lon said:


> Err, wait I'm no intp, I'm infj (or so those personality indicator tests usually suggest). I got it backwards


I'm glad you corrected that, because I never would have pegged you for INTP! I would have said you're too feely.  Haha. I'd bet that Caribbean Man and Entropy are INTPs or close thereabouts though.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

SimplyAmorous said:


> Yep...if you kept reading, you will notice I mentioned you twice on this thread


Poop... I didn't read all the way back or didn't see those posts until after seeing the INTP mention.  

Sorry.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Haha. *I'd bet that Caribbean Man and Entropy are INTPs or close thereabouts though*.


I know CB is Introverted....if these 2 land on the *Thinking*, which you are probably right on this...excellent analyzers ! ...I so ENJOY their well thought out posts.....they are surely closer to the *Feeling Bar* in comparison to you... especially CB, as he is *very empathetic* in his posts... why I wholly resonate with almost every one of them.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Does your man listen like a girlfriend?*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I'm glad you corrected that, because I never would have pegged you for INTP! I would have said you're too feely.  Haha. I'd bet that Caribbean Man and Entropy are INTPs or close thereabouts though.


Over the years I've done a number of those tests, I've always been IN but have switched back and forth between T/F and J/P. I am just on the cusp, in fact have come up with INXX before. A lot of it depends on my mood that day, but the last few years I have been falling on the FJ side of the fence.


----------



## Deejo

I listen like Ryan Gosling. At least until my ADD kicks in. That gives you approximately 240 seconds. And I'm absolutely yours for that 240 seconds. Beyond that, it's a crap-shoot.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

The fact that you even know about the Hey Girl memes is impressive. Very impressive.


----------



## Deejo

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The fact that you even know about the Hey Girl memes is impressive. Very impressive.


Hey Girl,

Feel this sweater.
You know what it's made of?
Boyfriend material.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo said:


> Hey Girl,
> 
> Feel this sweater.
> You know what it's made of?
> Boyfriend material.


Swoon!!!

View attachment 10162


----------



## always_alone

ScarletBegonias said:


> :iagree: that's my husband as well as me
> 
> well,we'd pick to be alone together instead of just alone.


. Yes. That's an update for me --I love to be alone with my SO. He's wonderful company. 

He on the other hand is quite extroverted and loves to surround himself with people. It's good for me too because it pushes me to maintain friendships and not get too isolated.


----------



## always_alone

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I would just like to state that I totally called this many months ago in some other thread!  Right on the money.


As I recall, your description of me didn't ring true at all. I don't remember all of what you said, but I most certainly do not go to bars to argue philosophy or sit in a corner and feel superior to other people. Truth is I was quite the wild child, so much so that my very own mother would warn my friends not to hang out with me as I would probably get them into trouble.

The personality theorists have me pegged as INTP, and no doubt I fit the profile in many ways. In others, though, not so much.

ETA: Yes, I've had a lot of people tell me that they thought I was a complete b*tch until they got to know me better.

Then they knew it. (j/k)


----------



## belleoftheball

firebelly1 said:


> So, here's my biggest dilemma about my marriage: my husband doesn't listen like a girlfriend does. I remember Dr. Phil saying men don't do that and I've gone back and forth over the years debating with myself about whether I should want / expect this. For those of you who are in happy relationships, does your man listen like a girlfriend or do you accept that men don't do that and have girlfriends for that purpose?


My hubs does, but do not let that fool you one bit. Why do I say that? Because my ex-husband did not one bit. So I guess in all reality it would just depend on the man and the relationship. The way I honestly look at it is this though. Your husband is suppose to be your everything and that includes your best friend. So if he does not want to listen and communicate with you, than something is not right there.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

always_alone said:


> As I recall, your description of me didn't ring true at all. I don't remember all of what you said, but I most certainly do not go to bars to argue philosophy or sit in a corner and feel superior to other people.


It wasn't to imply you feel superior to other people. It was merely casting you as the intellectual, INTP, type. The "shallow surface chit chat is bothersome" type. You want deeper understanding and theories of everything that honestly, most people don't give a rats behind about. The circumstance/activity (bar, philosophy) was beside the point. Its not like all INTPs are going to the bar talking about philosophy, but I'll bet most of those bar stool philosophers are INTPs (or very close). 

I even expressed that your personality, which I associate more commonly with men, might be a source of your distaste of traditional gender role and typing (somewhat ironic considering INTPs spend a lot of type analyzing and categorizing - fitting everything into a nice little pattern or bucket of understanding). It means you type, while vehemently trying to avoid types applied to you because you, as an INTP, are atypical for a female.

I've said a couple times that you argue more like a guy. That's not a compliment or insult. Just an observation. It never really came up, but in context, I would have pegged you INTP in a heartbeat. More feely than me, but still INTP and way more constructive/conceptual/intellectual than most.

Not claiming I know all about you or anything. Just that your being INTP was exactly what I was getting at a long time ago, and that's pretty cool. I should have thought to use the Myers-Briggs types to describe the vibe I had!! smdh

Shut up and let me be proud of myself. ;P



always_alone said:


> ETA: Yes, I've had a lot of people tell me that they thought I was a complete b*tch until they got to know me better.
> 
> Then they knew it. (j/k)


:rofl:


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

FrenchFry said:


> arrgh! sucked in!
> 
> but there are a couple of things. INTPs can be awesome chameleons and so while I might be more comfortable at a bar philosophizing, if I'm out at all I'm a very capable and enthusiastic E type person.
> 
> Second there can be subtypes based on the strength of each function and I think these can move around a lot, making it hard to type someone based on first impressions, or even second and third impressions.
> 
> In speech, before we took the tests and after we had given a few speeches, people had me pegged as an ENFP or ESFP...but I can suppress my I a lot when I have to. Doesn't mean I like it though.


You nailed it! Chameleons indeed. I was writing a reply to SA on that very thing, but I lost it and didn't write another.

I also suppress "I".

What is your subtype?


----------



## TiggyBlue

How rare can INTP really be for females there's 3 on this thread lol.


----------



## always_alone

FrenchFry said:


> arrgh! sucked in!
> 
> but there are a couple of things. INTPs can be awesome chameleons and so while I might be more comfortable at a bar philosophizing, if I'm out at all I'm a very capable and enthusiastic E type person.
> 
> Second there can be subtypes based on the strength of each function and I think these can move around a lot, making it hard to type someone based on first impressions, or even second and third impressions.
> 
> In speech, before we took the tests and after we had given a few speeches, people had me pegged as an ENFP or ESFP...but I can suppress my I a lot when I have to. Doesn't mean I like it though.


I think I must be a saboteur. I was a notorious trouble-maker in my youth, and pretty indiscriminate about what sorts of trouble I got myself into. Now that I'm older and wiser (or lazier!), I will only start trouble if I think it might advance the greater good.

Can't say that I'm a terribly good chameleon, though. I can fake some things, but am usually too damned insistent on being myself.

What's this thread about again? Oh yeah, I think there's some men who are better listeners than some women.

Shutting up now.


----------



## Runs like Dog




----------



## Created2Write

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> So, I'm aware of this "just listen, validate and support" phenomenon and I follow it because I've learned to, but I can't say I really understand the point of it. Why is it better to hear someone say "there there", than hear someone respond with proposed solutions? And if you don't want to take any action to solve something, what right do you really have to complain about it?
> 
> It reminds me of people who complain about elected officials, but never actually vote or take action.


I know I'm late to the convo, but had to respond to this. Firstly, not everything I complain about needs to be solved/resolved/fixed, and my right to complain is just that...a right to express my frustration. I shouldn't have to be looking for answers to the issue to be able to voice my concern to the person who is, supposedly, in love with me. If he loves me, he'll listen and shut the hell up. 

Secondly, if the issue doesn't have a resolution to be found, then it _is_ more comforting to be validated and supported than listen to a bunch of potential fixes when I know those fixes aren't going to work. Example, I work for a gym franchise in my area. The manager of one is downright annoying. He's an idiot, to be blunt. I don't have a lot of patience with him. So, at the end of the day, I vent about him to my husband. What possible solutions could my husband really give me? I'm the one working with the guy, I have the system I already use to deal with him, how is my husband supposed to "fix" this situation? He can't. What I need from him is to listen to my day, laugh at the idiotic things the guy does all the time, and tell me that he can understand how difficult it would be to work with him. 

_That_ is how validation and support is better than a fix or solution. Because, if I actually wanted a solution, I'd be asking for that, not asking him to just listen. 

Luckily for me, DH is a great listener.


----------



## Created2Write

John Lee said:


> This is another thing. Women often fail to consider how this seems to a man -- "Why does she need to vent so much? Why does she just want to complain without doing anything about her problems? Why is she being so childish and whiny?"


I'm glad my husband doesn't see my need to vent as childish and whiny. He, instead, sees it as a chance to step up and support the woman he married, regardless of whether or not he would feel the same way in the same situation.


----------



## Created2Write

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> A man who complains all the time and doesn't do anything to resolve the cause of his complaints is generally not looked well upon by other men. He's whiny and ineffectual. Its sort of counter to the idea of being a man. Perhaps its culture, but this is how I was raised. You don't cry about it, you go do something about it and you don't go get help unless you actually need it.
> 
> I think most men only talk about their problems when they don't have a solution or a plan - ie when they're stuck. I get a distinct sense from most men that they can't stand people who complain just to complain... especially other men. You even see this attitude toward a lot of the male complaints on this forum.
> 
> Count me in as one of those who doesn't really get the listening supportive thing. I do my best to walk the walk... but really? I'm not doing anything. "Oh dear, yes... that's terrible. I'm sorry you had to go through that. That sucks." When a woman is done venting she seems to feel better and is happy for all of my support... and I'm thinking "I didn't do anything... but ok." Listening to other women be supportive in these cases and I'm amazed at how scripted it all sounds... just make sure to say "I know how that feels. That's hard. I'm sorry you had to go through that." Rinse. Repeat. I don't get it. Do you need confirmation that it was hard or that other people had the same problem?
> 
> *This validation of feelings thing is lost on me. They're your feelings... doesn't matter if someone else thinks they're valid.*


On the contrary. It matters a very great deal. 

I'll give an example. DH just got a _major_ promotion and raise at work, and that has really ticked off some of his other coworkers, one in particular. This guy had bumped heads with DH for over a year now, and now DH is his direct boss. He could fire him, recommend raises, promote him...and this guy, who was already a handful to work with, isn't taking it well. But there's very little, if anything, DH can do. The guy still works just hard enough to squeak by, and makes being around him as difficult as possible, on purpose.

DH often talks about his day to unwind, particularly if it's been really stressful. Now, I've never been in this situation so I have no idea how he should feel. But, how do you think he would feel if, after venting about this guy, I shrugged and said, "So? You got a massive increase in pay, and this is one of the cons of the new position. Suck it up dude"? Firstly, nothing there is false, but it's entirely insensitive to his situation. 

We all desire validation in our lives, especially from the people who claim to love us most. It matters a lot whether or not they believe our feelings are valid or not.


----------



## Created2Write

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Do you notice that "become more understanding" only seems to apply to men? When she complains about something, she's not advised to value the solutions he offers, rather he's advised to stop offering solutions.
> 
> Maybe I'm just tired here at the end of the work day, but now that I think of it, I can't seem to recall instances where women are asked to react more like men. Am I wrong? Anyone have examples? Honestly, if it is valid to tell a man not to problem solve -* to "listen like a girlfriend" if you will, is it any less valid to tell a woman she should act more like a man and not complain just to complain?*


*

It would depend on the situation. I don't complain just to complain, but there are times when something has really irritated me and I need my husband to offer comfort and support. But, if it's a situation that does have the potential for a solution, then yes...I think women should be open to listening to their husband's solutions after they've been given the chance to vent.*


----------



## Created2Write

cookingirl78 said:


> I hate the "men don't listen" and "aren't capable of sharing emotions" stereotype. Plenty of men are great listeners. Some of the best deep, emotional conversations I have had in my life were with men.
> 
> Anyone can become a great listener if they care enough. You need to tell your husband that you need his emotional support. And then you need to make sure you are open to listening to him whenever or if ever he needs it. It can't be a one way street.


This. 

An essential part of a romantic relationship is being willing to listen to what the other is expressing, and caring about what they say. My DH listens because, while he may not be able to fix the situation/he knows I may not want him to fix it, it doesn't mean I just want the same statements repeated to me: "That sucks. Sorry to hear that. I'm sure it was difficult to go through that." How could you sound _less_ interested? That tells me you just want her to get the venting over with and could care less what she's feeling. 

DH listens while looking right at me. If I'm upset and crying, he pulls me into his arms and wraps me in his safety and soothes me with comforting words and a calm voice. If I'm angry he'll stroke my hair to calm me down while I vent. Regardless of the affection he's giving me, he listens intently and offers little statements of his own that reiterate what he interprets me to be feeling. It's one of the qualities that make him so special. He listens to me like a husband should...with sincere concern and interest and appropriate affection.


----------



## heartsbeating

While my feelings are valid because I feel them... There is something comforting in validation from my husband.

There's different ways I feel him in my corner.


----------



## Deejo

We do like validating your feelings.

But we still think you're whiny.


----------



## heartsbeating

There are reasons and there are results?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Created2Write

DH doesn't think I'm whiny. I guess I really did get a special guy who gets me.  But he has to vent about his days at work a lot too, so perhaps he's just able to understand the need for a good vent like I do.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Yep, one persons 'whining' is another persons catharsis.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

heartsbeating said:


> While my feelings are valid because I feel them...
> *There is something comforting in validation from my husband.*


This is an excellent thread here on Validation .. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/39565-validating-your-spouse.html...

A couple days ago....I was reading a few pages in *"His Needs, Her Needs"* ... it was saying how a couple needs AT LEAST *15 hours a week* devoted to *intimate conversation* ....to keep their marriage on tract, emotionally flowing... 



> *Riverside MFT said*:
> One of the best ways you can show your spouse that you care about him or her is by validating their feelings or experiences. Validation is a key ingredient to healthy communication in marriage.
> 
> We have all been on the receiving end of someone else that validated us, whether it be a spouse, family member, friend, or co-worker. When we are validated, we get a sense of connection and understanding. On top of that, we are able to continue sharing our thoughts and experiences because we know that understanding will be there from the other person in the future.
> 
> When validating your spouse, you don't have to understand why they feel that way; in fact, you may never fully understand the _why_ of their feelings. You also do not have to agree with what they are saying. Validating is about showing your spouse that you care about them and what they are saying. In their book _The Marriage Garden_, H Wallace Goddard and James P. Marshall talk about validation (p.119):
> 
> _Validation involves understanding and valuing our spouse. To validate our spouse we must
> 
> Listen by giving our full attention.
> Listen to the emotions being expresed.
> Listen to the needs being expressed.
> Understand the issue from the other person's point of view._​Using non-verbal communication and cues is a part of validating your spouse. When your spouse is talking to you, pay attention and stay focused. Look at them when they are speaking. Give your full attention to him or her and do not allow yourself to get distracted by TVs, phones, etc. Show that you are listening by nodding your head or giving some positive verbal sounds such as "yes" or "uh-huh." Give validating statements (you may use the pattern below for help in creating a validating statement).
> 
> Pattern for a validating statment:
> You are (identify the feeling) because of (identify the action) .
> 
> For example:
> You are upset because I came home late.
> You are stressed because the kids wore you out today.
> You are excited because you passed your test.
> 
> Ask yourself these questions:
> 
> 
> Do I strive to validate my spouse, or am I more concerned about my own agenda and feelings?
> Do I try to solve/fix my spouses problems instead of listening to him/her?
> When my spouse is talking to me, do I try to see things through his/her point of view?
> 
> Originally posted at Improve My Marriage: Validating Your Spouse


----------



## moco82

Created2Write said:


> So, at the end of the day, I vent about him to my husband. What possible solutions could my husband really give me? I'm the one working with the guy, I have the system I already use to deal with him, how is my husband supposed to "fix" this situation? He can't.


That would drive me nuts. Your system to deal with the guy obviously isn't effective enough if you still have to complain at the end of the day.


----------



## firebelly1

Having thought about this for a while (years really) and having gone to marriage counselling a bit, I'm realizing more and more that the issue between my DH and I is that I am the pursuer and he is the distancer. It isn't just that he doesn't listen like a girlfriend, it's that he distances himself in general, so I guess my question assumed the issue was different than it is. Still, the validation question is relevant. 

Men DO need validation. My distancing DH loves to talk passionately about sports and geology. If I don't listen actively when he talks about those things, his feelings get hurt. That isn't verbal validation but it's a type of validation through body language and facial expression.


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## firebelly1

Having thought about this for a while (years really) and having gone to marriage counselling a bit, I'm realizing more and more that the issue between my DH and I is that I am the pursuer and he is the distancer. It isn't just that he doesn't listen like a girlfriend, it's that he distances himself in general, so I guess my question assumed the issue was different than it is. Still, the validation question is relevant. 

Men DO need validation. My distancing DH loves to talk passionately about sports and geology. If I don't listen actively when he talks about those things, his feelings get hurt. That isn't verbal validation but it's a type of validation through body language and facial expression.


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## DvlsAdvc8

firebelly1 said:


> Men DO need validation. My distancing DH loves to talk passionately about sports and geology. If I don't listen actively when he talks about those things, his feelings get hurt. That isn't verbal validation but it's a type of validation through body language and facial expression.


Is that validation? To me validation isn't just listening to their interests, but a form of empathy... "Yeah, you should be pissed off. That would piss me off too. I can't believe that happened." etc etc.


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## Created2Write

moco82 said:


> That would drive me nuts. Your system to deal with the guy obviously isn't effective enough if you still have to complain at the end of the day.


"My system" is to get me through the day without losing my job. And if a man doesn't care enough about his wife to listen if she's had a bad day, why did he get married in the first place? 

DH needs to vent at the end of his day more than I do, and I'm happy to listen. I like hearing about how he handles his stressful situations. He's mature beyond his age and it amazes me how intelligent and smooth he is in this situations, so I'm happy to let him vent. Because I love and care about him.


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## moco82

firebelly1 said:


> My distancing DH loves to talk passionately about sports and geology.


For me the equivalents would be sports, finance, economics, politics, linguistics, and history. But I've learned to not speak about those things unless the listener has obvious enthusiasm ifor those disciplines. Pure validation and acknowledgement, especially if it's just body language, to me are worse than the outright statement "This isn't interesting". Different personalities (me and your husband), I guess: I'd rather have a substantive 15-minute conversation on these topics once a year than vent to my SO every day.


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## moco82

Created2Write said:


> And if a man doesn't care enough about his wife to listen if she's had a bad day, why did he get married in the first place?


Even if he cares enough to make it better (e.g. go beat up the guy) but can't stand the venting?


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## HangingOnHope

firebelly1 said:


> So, here's my biggest dilemma about my marriage: my husband doesn't listen like a girlfriend does. I remember Dr. Phil saying men don't do that and I've gone back and forth over the years debating with myself about whether I should want / expect this. For those of you who are in happy relationships, does your man listen like a girlfriend or do you accept that men don't do that and have girlfriends for that purpose?


Mine used to listen that way. I guess that's why you said "for those of you who are in happy relationships". I wonder now if that wasn't the first sign that things weren't quite as happy as they once were, so its a poignant question for me and I appreciate your posting it for that reason.


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## SimplyAmorous

Created2Write said:


> DH needs to vent at the end of his day more than I do, and I'm happy to listen. I like hearing about how he handles his stressful situations. He's mature beyond his age and it amazes me how intelligent and smooth he is in this situations, so I'm happy to let him vent. Because I love and care about him.



I get what you were saying earlier about working with some Joker .... our hands really are tied... on the job many times... gotta bite your lip... and put productivity / the company at the forefront...also the customer is "always right" (if that is your situation as well).

My husbands Boss had to go to Anger Management twice since he showed up... the man has made comments that if anyone likes him, he isn't doing his job effectively... Oh the stories...he's had days he came home steaming over some of his antics... though as time went on...it slowly became clear my husband was his favorite, and now it's pretty funny, he is like the only worker there who can get away with a little snide joking with the boss...he has found himself in a peacemaker situation at times.. between the Boss & some co-workers...

But it was a rough start for them all, when he vents like this, I tell him ...just think, without you there, one of them might come back with a gun after him... one co-worker won't even look at him...it's a little nuts there. 

Some work situations.. they can be ridiculously stressful...


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## Almost There

Yes, my man does, for the most part.  I'm lucky. We talk a lot, about everything, and that does mean that I can vent. He understands that some things he simply can't fix, so instead he offers his insight (which is always appreciated!) and helps me work out and validate my feelings. Frankly, I like talking to him more than to any of my girlfriends. He always makes me feel much better.

I will say - sometimes, he doesn't say anything in response, when he feels like he doesn't have something to say. I used to take this as he wasn't listening, or that he didn't care. I had to learn that that wasn't the case, and it's just how he listens sometimes. I've learned to not take it personally and he's learned to be more talkative.  Compromise!


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## DvlsAdvc8

Created2Write said:


> "My system" is to get me through the day without losing my job. And if a man doesn't care enough about his wife to listen if she's had a bad day, why did he get married in the first place?


You have problem and you tell hubby. Hubby listens and returns you a number of possible solutions. This isn't caring?

You enjoy listening to someone complain about the exact same thing over and over again, in spite of their refusal to consider any of the solutions you've offered? I think this is extremely frustrating to men BECAUSE they care. Not only is the repeat complaining now annoying, but not taking any of the advice shows a lack of value for our input as well.

I'm good with gripes. The same gripe over and over while nothing is done to address the root issue... not so much.


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## TikiKeen

I'm late to the game too...

Validation=showing empathy. That's why it's important. it's not being a 'yes man', it's letting the other person know you're concerned about their well-being and feelings. That goes for husbands and f friends too.

I first tested as an ENFP, and (once I quit doing drugs, lol) I tested as an INFP instead. I'll chit chat with best of them...once I get to know the people with whom I'm talking. I don't like idle talk much. This is good in that I also hate gossip and easily walk away from it.


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## Created2Write

moco82 said:


> Even if he cares enough to make it better (e.g. go beat up the guy) but can't stand the venting?


Even then. Not all women need their husbands to "make it better", but many, if not all, of them need to be listened to. If you care enough to make it better, then you should also care enough to listen.


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## TiggyBlue

If you care about someone you help them in the way they need help (even if it is just listening), not in the way you view as useful IMO.


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## Created2Write

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> You have problem and you tell hubby. Hubby listens and returns you a number of possible solutions. This isn't caring?


I didn't say that's not caring. But sometimes the offered solutions _wouldn't_ work. 

Example: DH works with some losers. They clearly don't care about their job, yet they expect to be favored and rewarded for doing the barest of bare minimum. They constantly make mistakes. Before DH got his promotion, there was absolutely nothing he could do about his situation. He had no authority. So, during the onset of these issues, I would offer solutions. 

Since _he's_ the one in the job, he would know whether or not what's being offered would work or not.



> You enjoy listening to someone complain about the exact same thing over and over again, in spite of their refusal to consider any of the solutions you've offered? I think this is extremely frustrating to men BECAUSE they care. Not only is the repeat complaining now annoying, but not taking any of the advice shows a lack of value for our input as well.


Sometimes the solutions offered simply wouldn't work. Sometimes there really isn't a viable solution that would make the situation easier. So, it's not a lack of value for your input as it is your input may not be viable. In DH's case, if he wanted to be successful at his job and worked hard, he'd be the enemy for trying to hard; if he decided to try and fit in with his coworkers, he'd have to stop working as hard and he'd lose his self-respect. 

There was no solution to his issue. So, what he needed most was for me to listen to the events of his day and listen to what he did to handle the losers he works with, and validate that I thought he did the right thing if ever a moral situation presented itself. Sometimes validation of feelings really means so much more than an attempt to "fix" the situation. 



> I'm good with gripes. The same gripe over and over while nothing is done to address the root issue... not so much.


Again, sometimes nothing can be done. If you care about the woman, your listening should be about _her_, not you.


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## Lon

*Re: Re: Does your man listen like a girlfriend?*



TiggyBlue said:


> If you care about someone you help them in the way they need help (even if it is just listening), not in the way you view as useful IMO.


I agree, caretaking is not the same as caregiving.


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## LemiLekySama

My husband tries to, he really does, but it's not the same. Then again, I know that I don't listen like his guy friends, bc, he says, I ask too many questions.


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## firebelly1

Deejo said:


> I listen like Ryan Gosling. At least until my ADD kicks in. That gives you approximately 240 seconds. And I'm absolutely yours for that 240 seconds. Beyond that, it's a crap-shoot.


I think that's part of what's going on with my H and I. He got diagnosed with ADD this last year (at age 43). So maybe our issues aren't so much about gender or listening like a girlfriend but just the fact that I feel like I'm racing against his attention span.


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## Deejo

*Re: Re: Does your man listen like a girlfriend?*



firebelly1 said:


> I think that's part of what's going on with my H and I. He got diagnosed with ADD this last year (at age 43). So maybe our issues aren't so much about gender or listening like a girlfriend but just the fact that I feel like I'm racing against his attention span.


I never use it as an excuse, ever. But it has proven to be a substantial issue for me, with partners who require a great deal of reassurance or emotional check-ins, when we AREN'T together. I am never going to be the guy who calls and/or texts you multiple times a day to see how you are. I presume you're great, and that you will reach out to me if that changes.


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## firebelly1

Deejo said:


> I never use it as an excuse, ever. But it has proven to be a substantial issue for me, with partners who require a great deal of reassurance or emotional check-ins, when we AREN'T together. I am never going to be the guy who calls and/or texts you multiple times a day to see how you are. I presume you're great, and that you will reach out to me if that changes.


You never use ADD as an excuse? How was it an issue with partners who require checking in? I'm curious about that since my H and I are 700 miles apart, in different countries and rely a lot on texting. I think he would describe me the same way - as needing a more than normal amounts of reassurance or emotional check-ins. I think of myself as needing a perfectly normal amount of emotional check-ins and its been a point of contention.


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