# Going on 3 years of marriage, just learned of wifes affair. Seek wisdom



## gizbug

Hello.

My wife and I have been married for 3 years this June. We have known each other for about 5 years. I am 38, she is 39. We both travel for our jobs, I am a pilot, she is a consultant.

Last November-December, she told me she has been seeing a therapist. It caught me off guard, and initially I was upset that she hid that from me. During most of last year, our physical relationship wasn't really strong. Our sex life wasn't really strong, and I know I am partially to blame for that. She would mention that when she walked around naked that I wouldn't notice her. I don't know if this was because I was too comfortable in the marriage, or stress with work, or what. 

In January she suggested we go to couples consoling. I wasn't a fan but agreed. We went maybe 4 times. I was open in all sessions, took the advice of the consouler, and from January til this past weekend, things have been really good for us. More intimate, better bond, feeling closer to each other. Fast forward to this past Saturday. I stumbled upon emails, showing she had been having an affair with a married guy at her work. The affair was about 10 months last year, ending in November. She was out in CA for work when I confronted her about it. I asked her Who Van was. She said a coworker. Then I asked if she had a relationship with him? Exchanged dirty emails? Had a sexual affair with him? She said No. I told her I saw the emails and hung up. She called back, sobbing, apologizing and saying it was true. I told her I didn't want to talk to her and hung up. Shortly after that, her password to gmail was changed (we have always been open with our passwords and not hiding anything). She bought a plane ticket on Saturday to fly home for the weekend. She leaves today to go back to CA for work for at least a week. 

We talked about it, she admits she did wrong, and says she will do anything to make this work. She told me she deleted the emails. She said they serve no purpose anymore. I told her if anything is to work, I need passwords to everything. She agreed. I told her I was disappointed she never brought this up to me in the consoling session, as it wasn't fair to me. She agreed. She told me that i was not giving her the attention she needed, and when someone at work gave her that attention things happened. She admits it was wrong. I told asked her why she would not come to me sooner, take me to her therapist, get consoling when there was an urge to cheat. She didn't know. I told her when we met, I've been cheated on twice in the past with women I've dated, and that to never do that to me as that hurts the worst.

We don't fight much at all. Besides the lack of intimacy, I really have nothing bad to say about the marriage. She is very supportive. We both are paying down debt, have no kids yet, own a condo together, and planning for our futures together.

My question is, what do I do? One friend from college has told me that I should kick her out, call a lawyer and be done with it. He asked if I want to live my life as a "Warden" or "Corrections Officer" always having to look over her shoulders to make sure she is being truthful. 

I've read trust can be rebuilt, and sometimes it is stronger than it was before an incident. I do love her, but I am just devastated. Any words to help during this rough time would be appreciated. Thank you for listening.


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## happy as a clam

gizbug said:


> My question is, what do I do? *One friend from college has told me that I should kick her out, call a lawyer and be done with it.* He asked if I want to live my life as a "Warden" or "Corrections Officer" always having to look over her shoulders to make sure she is being truthful.


:iagree: with your friend.

The fact that you have no kids together makes this a no-brainer decision in my mind. And the fact that you both travel with your jobs makes it likely that she will be a repeat offender.

I'm sorry you're here. Stick around, you're about to get heaps of good advice.


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## workindad

I realize the affair that you know about seems to be over for a while. However, I would still insist on std tests. Protect your health. 

You have no kids and she is cheating and lying just over a year into your marriage if I understand your timeline

You have no kids and your marriage doesn't sound that healthy. She also did this while going thru couples counseling with you. 

Your wife has no issue lying to you Are you sure you know everything? Insist on a written timeline and ask about other affairs as well. 

Her immediate change of her password so she could delete the emails sucks 

Take care of yourself. Do not get her pregnant right now. Speak to a lawyer to at least get some options. Take your time making a decision 

By all means tell posoms wife. She deserves to know. You may also find out more this way

Does your wife still work with posom


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## maritalloneliness

So sorry to hear about your WS. Just a little bit of encouragement, take care of yourself and read some of the threads by EleGirl, she and others on TAM have been very helpful and supportive.


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## cgiles

If you want to take the road of Reconciliation, you should read this : 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

If you prefer the road of the divorce, you should do a 180, put your duck inrow, and serve her. 
The 180 | AFFAIRCARE 

In both case the OM wife must be informed. 
Same about exposure, whatever your chose, you need to expose, only for protect yourself of what she can say about you around her, and for allow you to reach your support network.

As you been cheated several times, I advice you to read "no more mr nice guy" by Robert Glover. https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

The fact she deleted the proof is against her. 
She has lost the right to find what is relevant or not.


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## SecondTime'Round

Do you have her new gmail password? If so, check to see if she just deleted the emails and they are still in the trash folder, or if she emptied the trash, too. You need those emails. 

It sounds like she started individual counseling and you started marriage counseling a couple months after the affair ended? And she is the one who initiated this? I think this is a good thing and points to her actually being remorseful. I do think it's possible to rebuild, but she needs to be totally transparent all the time. 

And you will be strongly advised to tell the other man's wife to decrease chances of them going back to each other.


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## MattMatt

So she had therapy and counselling and lied throughout.

Yikes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks

Here's my advice. There are two types of cheating scenarios. 1. An otherwise OK person lacks something in their marriage and it opens the door for cheating and 2. The cheater is a bad person who will cheat whether or not something is wrong in the marriage.

If you are dealing with scenario 1 and you know what you did wrong to contribute to it and wish to try to fix it, that's something you can choose to do. However, I think it's going to be nearly impossible to build a proper connection in your marriage if you two don't spend a huge amount of time together daily.


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## SecondTime'Round

MattMatt said:


> So she had therapy and counselling and lied throughout.
> 
> Yikes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm guessing she probably did not lie to her individual counselor.

Was she ever questioned about cheating during marriage counseling? (Not that I'm excusing her not divulging that in counseling)


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## gizbug

MattMatt said:


> So she had therapy and counselling and lied throughout.
> 
> Yikes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The therapy woman she see's knows about it.


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## Daniel.

With childless couple i'll always say divorce. It's just the two of you now what will happen when a the babies arrive ?
And don't listen to her blameshift, if she needs more attention she should've brought it up. Last year you sex relationship wasn't strong because she was doing it with the coworker. Not your fault at allShe cheated because it was way easier compare to working out a problem, if there was any. 

You're getting a trickle truth here, if she was open and remorseful she'd have no objection about you reading their emails. She's hiding something, something way uglier that she doesn't want you to know. Can you go on R while you're in the dark ?


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## BetrayedDad

1) No kids

2) Only confessed after being confronted, tried to lie her way out of it and delete emails so no remorse

3) Both travel for work so basically impossible to keep tabs on her, fake email accounts and burner phones easy to hide

4) Only married three years and cheated for one of them (that you know of). 33% of your marriage has been a sham.

5) Oh yeah, no kids


Buy your college buddy a beer and some buffalo wings. Thank him for the awesome advice. He's on point with his assessment...


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## Graywolf2

gizbug said:


> I've read trust can be rebuilt, and sometimes it is stronger than it was before an incident. I do love her, but I am just devastated.


NO, no, no. Not matter what you can never get back to the same level of trust. Before you had blind trust and couldn’t conceive of her betraying you to that degree. Now the idea is conceivable because it happened. You can’t go back in time and change that.



gizbug said:


> He asked if I want to live my life as a "Warden" or "Corrections Officer" always having to look over her shoulders to make sure she is being truthful.


Your friend’s question is right on the mark.



gizbug said:


> We both travel for our jobs, I am a pilot, she is a consultant.


Something as trivial as her taking too long at the grocery store can be upsetting. Your jobs make it much worse. How will you ever not wonder?



gizbug said:


> I am 38, she is 39.


The decades (40, 50) are prime time for affairs. They want to see if they still have it before growing old with their spouse. 

*Don’t get her pregnant.

Did the affair overlap with the counseling?*


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## tom67

Only married 3 years and no kids get out now.
Compared to some guys you are quite lucky although you may not see it now.
You may want to tell her you won't expose her as a h0re if she agrees to a clean split.
If not have at it.


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## anchorwatch

Not much of a commitment on her side is it? 

Less than three years in, she needs outside attention to validate she's attractive and to make her happy? Where on any list of 'how to get my husband to pay attention to me' is going out and finding a boyfriend? 

Believe me if she wasn't happy, it was her job to take the first steps to sort that out, not yours. We are all responsible for ourselves. We are all responsible for our part in the marriage. The A wasn't about you, it was about her, 100%.

She's got problems that won't be fixed for a long time. Think about parting ways while you're young, so you can and find what we all deserve, someone who can keep a commitment...

Best

BTW, how is your health and emotional well being?


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## happy as a clam

OP, I noticed in another thread you were asking about the 180. I answered there, but here it is again:

The 180


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## toonaive

happy as a clam said:


> :iagree: with your friend.
> 
> The fact that you have no kids together makes this a no-brainer decision in my mind. And the fact that you both travel with your jobs makes it likely that she will be a repeat offender.
> 
> I'm sorry you're here. Stick around, you're about to get heaps of good advice.


:iagree:

Only married 3 years? Count yourself lucky you found out this early. Divorce this deadbeat, and have a good life without her.


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## tom67

Read two books...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...99ziOMzjLfn3Jhxzz907eDg&bvm=bv.91071109,d.b2w

Books by Athol Kay | Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life


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## gizbug

happy as a clam said:


> OP, I noticed in another thread you were asking about the 180. I answered there, but here it is again:
> 
> The 180


Thank you. And thank you for the comments. A lot to digest.


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## gizbug

Who's responsibility is it to inform the spouse of her coworker about the affair? I told her she needs to do it. She doesn't see that has anything positive coming from that approach.


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## manfromlamancha

Hello Gizbug and sorry you are here. Here is my tuppence worth of advice and commentary:


You and your wife have been married a relatively short period of time and already she has had an affair and lied to you about it.

This was no one night stand or passing thing - it went on for 10 months at least and almost a third of your married life! She took it pretty seriously and must have gone through considerable effort to keep it concealed from you (although no one really expects their spouse to cheat this quickly).

In her mind she created some justification for it although there really was none. She then tried to absolve herself of her guilt by going to (more like confessing to) a therapist!

She even tried to confirm her blaming it on you by asking you to also go to the therapist.

Wonder what was going through the counsellors mind as she was counselling you on what to do to "fix" your behaviour all the while knowing that your wife had cheated (for which there is no justification). I am curious as to what the counsellor asked you to do?

She immediately went into delete emails, hide info etc and this would have remained a secret if you did not find out by yourself (she tried to lie her way out of it) - disrespectful and not showing any true remorse.

She wants to repair things with you by sweeping this under the rug, and continuing with counselling. She (and you) needs to take a long hard look at why she wants to continue with this relationship - no kids, no respect or love for you, clearly wants to sleep with others etc. - what does she get from you ? Financial stability ? No, she earns similar to you. So why ? And why do you want to stay with her ? You will be forever looking over your shoulder as the trust has gone.

I therefore agree with those who say cut your losses and run before it gets even more painful and damaging down the line.


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## tom67

gizbug said:


> Who's responsibility is it to inform the spouse of her coworker about the affair? I told her she needs to do it. She doesn't see that has anything positive coming from that approach.


Here look at it this way...
If you were in the dark wouldn't you want to know so you could make an informed decision and get tested for STDs.


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## TRy

gizbug said:


> One friend from college has told me that I should kick her out, call a lawyer and be done with it. He asked if I want to live my life as a "Warden" or "Corrections Officer" always having to look over her shoulders to make sure she is being truthful.


 Your friend is right. You should "call a lawyer and be done with it", as you do not want to live the rest of your life as a Warden always looking over her shoulders to see if she is cheating.



gizbug said:


> I've read trust can be rebuilt, and sometimes it is stronger than it was before an incident.


 Trust can be rebuilt, but it will very rarely be the same much less stronger. You know for a fact that she cheated on you for at least 10 months of a 3 year marriage. That is almost a third of you marriage. The first years of the marriage are suppose to be some of the best years of a marriage before the stress of children and illness take a toll. If she cheats this early on because she says that you did not give her enough attention, imagine how much she will cheat when you start sharing your attention with your children.

The fact that she is blaming you for not giving her enough attention, speaks volumes about how she will cheat again in the future when things are not perfect, and as a human you will not be perfect no matter how hard you try. If you have children with her, you will regret it and your children will suffer.


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## anchorwatch

gizbug said:


> Who's responsibility is it to inform the spouse of her coworker about the affair? I told her she needs to do it. She doesn't see that has anything positive coming from that approach.


Sure she doesn't. 

Why would she have to take any negative responsibility for entering that woman's marriage?

How about it might be a good thing for that woman to have some enlightened say in her marriage and future, instead of being left in the dark by you, your W and her lover?

Just do it, you don't need permission. The affair happens when she's out of town, then it will give you an extra set of eyes on the situation if they decide to continue. Don't tell your W, she may warn her lover and they'll spin some story.


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## WorkingOnMe

gizbug said:


> Who's responsibility is it to inform the spouse of her coworker about the affair? I told her she needs to do it. She doesn't see that has anything positive coming from that approach.



If she did it it would be a sign of remorse. But if she doesn't, you should. She deserves to know.


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## tom67

WorkingOnMe said:


> If she did it it would be a sign of remorse. But if she doesn't, you should. She deserves to know.


Do not tell her you are doing it wait and see her reaction if she is pissed you know they are still in contact.


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## gizbug

TRy said:


> Your friend is right. You should "call a lawyer and be done with it", as you do not want to live the rest of your life as a Warden always looking over her shoulders to see if she is cheating.


I live in Chicago, how do I go about finding a lawyer? Internet is a big place, and not even sure where to look. I can look on google, but not sure who/what to look for when it comes to divorce lawyers


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## happy as a clam

tom67 said:


> Do not tell her you are doing it wait and see her reaction if she is pissed you know they are still in contact.


I LIKE this idea! Very "sleuth"...


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## happy as a clam

gizbug said:


> I live in Chicago, how do I go about finding a lawyer?


Word of mouth is your best bet. Ask around. Someone will know someone who got divorced and had a good lawyer.

Most lawyers give a "free" consultation before you retain them. Visit a few and see which one clicks with you.


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## tom67

gizbug said:


> I live in Chicago, how do I go about finding a lawyer? Internet is a big place, and not even sure where to look. I can look on google, but not sure who/what to look for when it comes to divorce lawyers


The Chicago Bar Association | Home

Get some free consults but only 3 years and no kids I suggest you two get one lawyer and just split 50/50.
Why spend more $$$ if you don't have to.


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## tom67

Here in the city this guy is big
Chicago Family Law & Divorce | The Law Offices of Jeffery M. Leving Ltd
But you don't have kids but he is a big shooter.


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## bryanp

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. If the roles were reversed your wife would be at a lawyer's now.
3. See a lawyer now.

Your wife betrayed and disrespected you in the worst possible way. 10 months is a long time. There were probably times when you were with her after she had been with the OM.

****If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## happyman64

Gizbug

Can I make some suggestions that I hope you follow?

1. Slow down. Just because you have no children and your wife is a liar and a cheater is not a reason to divorce her if you love her.

Many people love to say "Run, Run and divorce her".

What I am telling you is to not jump to any long term decisions right away.

Slow down. See a lawyer. Get advice and have additional talks with your wife.

2. Your wife is still in control. If she is truly remorseful she will do a few things to show she is remorseful.
A. Gives you complete access to all electronics and email/social accounts.
B. She will not delete any incriminating/nonincriminating information.
C. She will stop lying and be 100% honest with you.
D. She will stop telling what is not good or right when ot comes to your feelings or getting the marriage back on track.

3. You take control. By that I mean you setup and pick the MC. You speak with her IC about why she did not encourage your wife to be truthful about the affair to you. Listen carefully to what the therapist says. All therapists have opinions but it does not mean they are right....

4. You alert the OMW about the affair and how long it went on for.

I hope you got some evidence before your wife deleted it.

5. Get tested for STD's.

It is bad that your wife was lying through counseling and that she did not come clean while hoping to improve the marriage.

Give her credit for ending the affair.

More important than MC is her working her therapist (IC) to find out why she chose to cheat instead of coming to you.

SHe is obviously a hard worker and a professional so why is her self esteem, lack of morals or healthy boundaries an issue.

Make her find out why?????

The choice to R or D is yours now. If you truly love her let your emotions settle and put off any major decisions for a few months.

Focus on your flying!!!

HM


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## tom67

HM makes very good points as always.
However you two should have been in the honeymoon phase this early on and she already strayed.
Take as much time as you need but for sure inform the other mans wife no matter what you decide how she reacts after exposure will help you whether to r or d.


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## happyman64

I agree Tom but the honeymoon phase is different with couples of different ages.

They are both in their thirties, professionals with traveling careers.

So they might be like two ships passing in the night for a few weeks every month.

That could also be a contributing factor for the demise of their relationship.

Even though she pushed for counseling she had already cheated.

Obviously the affair did not help find what she was missing.

She obviously loves her husband.

I think she owes him a written timeline and a lot more honesty.


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## tom67

happyman64 said:


> I agree Tom but the honeymoon phase is different with couples of different ages.
> 
> They are both in their thirties, professionals with traveling careers.
> 
> So they might be like two ships passing in the night for a few weeks every month.
> 
> That could also be a contributing factor for the demise of their relationship.
> 
> Even though she pushed for counseling she had already cheated.
> 
> Obviously the affair did not help find what she was missing.
> 
> She obviously loves her husband.
> 
> I think she owes him a written timeline and a lot more honesty.


:iagree:
Being a pilot and being married does put a strain no doubt plus she travels is a bad mix.


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## happy as a clam

HM64...

I almost ALWAYS agree with your advice. And you're right, SLOW DOWN, temperance, weigh your options, etc...

But in THIS case, I say RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!

If my partner cheated on me barely one to two years into the marriage, I would surmise that he had just "settled" and *wasn't* getting his "needs" met in the marriage (I am a woman.)

Whatever the h*ll HER "needs" are, OP is not filling them. So my conclusion is (like I've posted countless times before)... OP's wife, and possibly OP too, *married the "checklist"* (ignoring the whole "spark", "chemistry", "animal attraction" thing...)

*Here's the "checklist" for those who don't marry for the right reason:*


Good family
Good education
Professional -- (H*ll, who WOULDN'T want the prestige of saying "My husband is a PILOT!")
Good present (and future) income
Good "father material"
"Status" amongst her friends whose BFs/husbands are not as "accomplished"
Family "approval"
Societal "approval"
Doormat ("he will love me NO MATTER WHAT")
Bottom line, his wife is a CHEATER... IMHO this is NOT recoverable. She cheated at a time when they should be at their HAPPIEST (honeymoon phase)

Time for OP to pack it up, move along.

Listen to your college buddy. Don't become a "warden" who has to constantly look over his shoulder and check up on everything. That is NO way to live.


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## happyman64

In the end that might be what Gizbug does.

WHat I would like to see happen is the Gizbug be the PIC (pilot in command) and take control of what happens next.

Absolutely his wife has made some very bad, selfish decisions.

And I do think Gizbug will realize that his wife's bad decisions had very little to do with him.

But complacency can settle into any marriage at any time.

He can spend a few months and some honesty to analyze his marriage, his wife and see if he loves her enough to want to R.

If he just up and runs he will spending effort to Divorce, find a new mate and start all over again.

Both decisions and courses of action require effort, planning and execution.

If I was heading towards a bad storm over some mountains do I go up and over the storm or do I go around the storm.

Either way he and his wife will be dealing with the fallout, the mess and the cleanup.

Not all cheaters do it again. If they did no one would ever reconcile.

What gizbug needs to see is if his wife is truly remorseful, truly honest and truly open regarding her issues.

There is always a "Why" that a person decides to have an affair instead of coming to their spouse and baring their soul.

Maybe she is finally ready to act like a grownup and is ready to bare her soul.

If it was me I would stick around just to see who the person I chose to marry truly is.......

But that is me. I need no one to make myself happy. I make my own. Maybe Gizbug can finally learn what will make his wife happy.

She certainly has not found it on her own has she?

HM


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## Chaparral

How much did you learn from her emails? There are ways to retrieve deleted emails and texts depending on the phone. Do you have access to the phone bill?

YOU need to inform his wife.

Do they still work together?

I would want to check everything to see if there were other men or one night stands.

Both of you travel, she's a cheater, how can that work?


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## adriana

gizbug said:


> My question is, what do I do? One friend from college has told me that I should kick her out, call a lawyer and be done with it. He asked if I want to live my life as a "Warden" or "Corrections Officer" always having to look over her shoulders to make sure she is being truthful.



Gizbug, not only is your story very similiar to mine but you also live in the same city. 

Well, I have to agree with your college friend that you should end your marriage. I filed for a divorce four days after I discovered my ex-husband's affair with a co-worker and never looked back. We were great together so it wasn't an easy decision but it was the right one. I have never questioned it. 

You should do the same.... just file for a divorce and have her served at work. The less you talk to her the better. I decided not to talk to my ex-husband all at but my situation was quite unique and it won't work for most.

Good luck!


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## Plan 9 from OS

Why did you and your W even bother to get married? You both travel a lot for your jobs, so how much commitment is there really between the two of you? Also, you got complacent and didn't bother much with the wife while she decided to cheat as soon as you fvcked up.

No kids? Take the mulligan. You both deserve it. Maybe next time you'll be a better husband and her a better wife.


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## BobSimmons

gizbug said:


> Hello.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 3 years this June. We have known each other for about 5 years. I am 38, she is 39. We both travel for our jobs, I am a pilot, she is a consultant.
> 
> Last November-December, she told me she has been seeing a therapist. It caught me off guard, and initially I was upset that she hid that from me. During most of last year, our physical relationship wasn't really strong. Our sex life wasn't really strong, and I know I am partially to blame for that. She would mention that when she walked around naked that I wouldn't notice her. I don't know if this was because I was too comfortable in the marriage, or stress with work, or what.
> 
> In January she suggested we go to couples consoling. I wasn't a fan but agreed. We went maybe 4 times. I was open in all sessions, took the advice of the consouler, and from January til this past weekend, things have been really good for us. More intimate, better bond, feeling closer to each other. Fast forward to this past Saturday. I stumbled upon emails, showing she had been having an affair with a married guy at her work. The affair was about 10 months last year, ending in November. She was out in CA for work when I confronted her about it. I asked her Who Van was. She said a coworker. Then I asked if she had a relationship with him? Exchanged dirty emails? Had a sexual affair with him? She said No. I told her I saw the emails and hung up. She called back, sobbing, apologizing and saying it was true. I told her I didn't want to talk to her and hung up. Shortly after that, her password to gmail was changed (we have always been open with our passwords and not hiding anything). She bought a plane ticket on Saturday to fly home for the weekend. She leaves today to go back to CA for work for at least a week.
> 
> We talked about it, she admits she did wrong, and says she will do anything to make this work. She told me *she deleted the emails*. She said they serve no purpose anymore. I told her if anything is to work, I need passwords to everything. She agreed. I told her I was disappointed she never brought this up to me in the consoling session, as it wasn't fair to me. She agreed. * She told me that i was not giving her the attention she needed, and when someone at work gave her that attention things happened.* She admits it was wrong. I told asked her why she would not come to me sooner, take me to her therapist, get consoling when there was an urge to cheat. She didn't know. I told her when we met, I've been cheated on twice in the past with women I've dated, and that to never do that to me as that hurts the worst.
> 
> We don't fight much at all. Besides the lack of intimacy, I really have nothing bad to say about the marriage. She is very supportive. We both are paying down debt, have no kids yet, own a condo together, and planning for our futures together.
> 
> My question is, what do I do? One friend from college has told me that I should kick her out, call a lawyer and be done with it. He asked if I want to live my life as a "Warden" or "Corrections Officer" always having to look over her shoulders to make sure she is being truthful.
> 
> I've read trust can be rebuilt, and sometimes it is stronger than it was before an incident. I do love her, but I am just devastated. Any words to help during this rough time would be appreciated. Thank you for listening.


* She told me that i was not giving her the attention she needed, and when someone at work gave her that attention things happened.*

I'd kick her out for that alone. That has nothing to do with anything. So what if someone else showed her more attention, you jump on his johnson again and again?

Truth is she did it because she wanted to and somewhere she enjoyed it.

No kids? Brother run for the hills.

Yes trust can be built up but it's never the same, and your friend is right, next time she withdraws, she's late from work, supposed to call you at a certain time and doesn't, you call her and she's not picking up her phone, you know what's the first thing that's going to come to your mind.

For me if she really wants you and is sorry then divorce and you can start over.


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## NoChoice

OP,
I find several things about your situation troubling. First and foremost is the time frame. From what I was able to ascertain, your WW began her A just about one year into your marriage. Additionally, the A lasted for almost another year so it was not just a weak moment. For many on here there has been an investment of 10, 20 even 30 years of marriage before an occurrence like this.

The fact that your wife waited barely a year I feel shows her level of commitment to the marriage. Also, there is her lack of honesty and the obvious lack of value she places on her solemn word. Then, when confronted the first thing she does is scramble to change passwords and delete emails and this was supposedly after counseling sessions had already begun. Why were those not deleted weeks or months prior?

And then there is your response. You do not seem devastated as many here usually are but rather somewhat accepting of the circumstances. Perhaps both of you entered into marriage hastily but by all evidence, your wife certainly did. I do not think she was/is ready for a committed relationship. Of course only you know the depth of your feelings for her and likewise only she knows her heart. If there is to be R and if it is to succeed, then both of you will have to evaluate your positions and be willing to give it 100%. Your wife must be willing to do whatever it takes, gladly, in order to help you heal and if she is not then you will be wasting your time. From a practical standpoint, taking into consideration the behavior your wife has exhibited I would have to agree it is time to cut your losses and run. If however, you decide to try R, you must accept nothing less than complete dedication from your wife. Any attempt on her part to shift blame and accountability will tip her hand and you will know she is not sincere. I wish you good fortune.


----------



## kristin2349

BobSimmons said:


> * She told me that i was not giving her the attention she needed, and when someone at work gave her that attention things happened.*
> 
> I'd kick her out for that alone. That has nothing to do with anything. So what if someone else showed her more attention, you jump on his johnson again and again?
> 
> Truth is she did it because she wanted to and somewhere she enjoyed it.
> 
> No kids? Brother run for the hills.
> 
> Yes trust can be built up but it's never the same, and your friend is right, next time she withdraws, she's late from work, supposed to call you at a certain time and doesn't, you call her and she's not picking up her phone, you know what's the first thing that's going to come to your mind.
> 
> For me if she really wants you and is sorry then divorce and you can start over.



:iagree:

That statement blaming him for her affair shows a huge lack of remorse. Throw in the fact that if he had not found the evidence, he would still be in the dark about her affairs.

There really is no foundation for reconciliation at this point, she isn't "wife material".


----------



## TRy

gizbug said:


> I live in Chicago, how do I go about finding a lawyer? Internet is a big place, and not even sure where to look. I can look on google, but not sure who/what to look for when it comes to divorce lawyers


 You must know family or friends that are loyal to you and not to your wife that have gotten divorced. Ask one of them. They will either recommend the lawyer that they used, or their ex-spouse's lawyer that got the better of them.


----------



## workindad

Op her excuse/reason for her affair. You didn't give me enough attention will be very difficult to address with your professions and travel requirements. 

is she actively looking for another job. 

Just curious. Did she meet all of your needs in the marriage? 

I'm not advocating R or D you have to make that decision. However your wife does not seem remorseful from your description and I believe that to be a key required element for a true and successful R. 

Please do take care of yourself during this time of high stress eat right exercise and be careful with alcohol. 
I wish you well


----------



## workindad

I forgot. 

You absolutely tell the other mans wife. Do so without letting your wife know. 

Her reaction to this will tell you a lot. I absolutely agree you will find out if she is still in contact with him this way. 

Also his spouse has a right to know that she is at risk for stds


----------



## manfromlamancha

You have been receiving some "incredible" advice here that I not only think you should ignore but am amazed that it is being given. Here are some zingers:

"Give her credit for ending the affair" - not only do we not know if this is/was true but it should go down in some hall of fame! You do not owe her any credit for it. Substitute "give her hell for lying and cheating and breaking her vows with extra hell for being disrespectful and non remorseful".

"She obviously loves her husband (you)" - again, I really do not know where this is coming from or what the basis for concluding this is but she sure has a funny way of showing she loves you! I guess nothing says "I love you" quite like fvck!ng another man for 10 months possibly giving you sloppy seconds every now and then, absolving herself of any guilt by confessing to a therapist and convincing herself that there is something wrong with you as the reason for it and then getting a therapist to tell you to work on yourself. And furthermore, lying, trickle truthing and deleting evidence to try and get you to continue doubting yourself. You need to ask yourself what kind of person does that.

"They might be like two ships passing in the night for a few weeks every night" - and there you have it folks - a justified reason to sleep with somebody else and lie about it (even when you are newly married)! 

Gizbug, for the sake of your sanity and future wellbeing get out of this while you can. File for divorce as soon as you can. Then leave it to her to demonstrate real remorse in actions and also really & honestly figure out why she did this - not your job to do the hard work. If you still love her after all this you can consider stopping the divorce at the last minute or better still, start dating again after divorce.

Stay away from the therapist she took you to who is there to primarily help her. If you must go to one, find one who will help you to recover from the extreme hurt.

And expose the affair far and wide starting with doing the right thing by telling the POS's wife. Blow the fvcker's world up.


----------



## happyman64

> "They might be like two ships passing in the night for a few weeks every night" - and there you have it folks - a justified reason to sleep with somebody else and lie about it (even when you are newly married)!


I think you like most on this thread should keep taking most of the posts out of context.

If you reread what I posted above it was in reference to how can any relationship grow or be good if both spouses rarely see each other due to work commitments away from each other.

Thank God the OP is smart and has a brain.

He will be able to make his own decisions and live with them.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned painting a scarlet letter on her forehead or burning his wayward wife on a stake.......


----------



## happy as a clam

OP... are you still here?

I hope you are taking all this in...


----------



## happy as a clam

happyman64 said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned *painting a scarlet letter on her forehead* or burning his wayward wife on a stake.......


Perhaps someone should.

His wife is a liar, a cheat, and a scum bag. I only hope he takes his college buddy's advice and divorces her PRONTO. Like yesterday.

HM64, with all due respect, your advice to "redeem" this marriage (when she cheated and lied for a THIRD of it) is pie in the sky, Pollyanna, dreamland.


----------



## quester

Confronting seems like the right thing to do when you discover evidence. From the gut, it feels like you have to, but remaining calm and understanding that you have an upper hand by having a view into the situation would have been better. 

Unfortunately, we are human - and it felt right to confront her about it - but what you've done is to drive her underground.

You can bet that there is another email account now. You can bet that shes talking to him - and if not him - there will be another - and you no longer have a window. She knows you are watching.

You need to dig deep to see if there is a way to get tabs on her whereabouts, her electronic movements, emails, logs, gps, everything you can think of... in a way that she does not know, and then work hard to keep it within yourself.

If you want to stay with her, that is. That is the life you are headed for. You are the police officer - or the investigator, rather. She cannot be trusted - period.

But with no kids... hmmm. The ration of women to men is in your favor. Find someone you can rest easy with and let this go. Find your peace.


----------



## EleGirl

gizbug,

I think that the best input that I can give is to point you to tools that can help you decide what to do from here.

While many are advising you to just dump your wife, it is very possible to recover your marriage if you and she work together on this. Often times, couples who reconcile to go on to have a better, stronger marriage than then did before. Humans are flawed. Your wife is obviously flawed... as are we all in our own way. It's your decision on whether or not you want to continue your marriage. 

To help you decide this I'm suggesting a book that has help a lot of people. We used what we learned from the book and some two others to recover from my husband's affair. The book is:

Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley.

The two follow on books that both you and your wife would need to read and do the work prescribed are "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters", also by Dr. Harley.

I hope that you can find a solution that is good for you.


----------



## EleGirl

happyman64 said:


> I think you like most on this thread should keep taking most of the posts out of context.
> 
> If you reread what I posted above it was in reference to how can any relationship grow or be good if both spouses rarely see each other due to work commitments away from each other.
> 
> Thank God the OP is smart and has a brain.
> 
> He will be able to make his own decisions and live with them.
> 
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned painting a scarlet letter on her forehead or burning his wayward wife on a stake.......


:iagree: Those here how are cheering for the OP to dump his wife have not had the experience of recovering a marriage from an affair. So they typically cheer on anyone man who finds out that his wife has cheated to just dump her.

No one but the OP can decide what he wants to do with his marriage and his life. For a poster to pressure someone to do what something one way or the other is wrong. Each person has to make up their own mind on what to do in their marriage and their lives.


----------



## happy as a clam

EleGirl said:


> :iagree: Those here how are cheering for the OP to dump his wife have not had the experience of *recovering a marriage* from an affair.


Semi-fair enough.

While not _MARRIED_, I was involved for years, and engaged, to a man who cheated on me (KNOWN - twice) and a likely third time (or more).

I was advised by many to "work through it", "he didn't mean it", he REALLY loves YOU", "it was just a fling", "you can FIX this", etc.

:wtf:

I didn't marry him.

I don't consider OP's situation much different from the one I was in.

*So my advice remains the same: Dump her now.*


----------



## happyman64

happy as a clam said:


> Perhaps someone should.
> 
> His wife is a liar, a cheat, and a scum bag. I only hope he takes his college buddy's advice and divorces her PRONTO. Like yesterday.
> 
> HM64, with all due respect, your advice to "redeem" this marriage (when she cheated and lied for a THIRD of it) is pie in the sky, Pollyanna, dreamland.


Again you are not reading HAAC.

I never advised the OP to redeem anything.

I advised him to take his time making any major decision.

Posters are saying she is not remorseful. How can she be. He just found out a few days ago. Remorse very rarely takes place overnight. Heck she might not be remorseful. How would we know.

None of the issues or matters will be resolved overnight no matter whether he walks, jogs or runs away.

Where will he run to? They live together and own a townhouse together.

Everyone is jumping to conclusions. Except GIZBUG......


----------



## happy as a clam

happyman64 said:


> Again you are not reading HAAC.


I am reading perfectly well, thank you.



happyman64 said:


> Where will he run to? They live together and own a townhouse together.


Doesn't sound like he has to run anywhere.

They can still live in the same residence while going through a divorce and selling (or one buying out the other) their condo. (There are no kids to damage in the wake).

With the amount of travel they both do, doesn't sound like they would see much of each other any way.


----------



## Dogbert

gizbug said:


> *I told her when we met, I've been cheated on twice in the past with women I've dated, and that to never do that to me as that hurts the worst*.


*She knew* you had been stabbed in the back in the past and she herself went and did the same thing. I'm sorry but this is simply too much to allow it to pass.

The saving grace in all this crap is that you do not have any children with her so if you choose to divorce, it will be a clean break and you will never see her again. This will make it much easier for you to move on and rebuild your life.

She is broken and has no business in being in any type of committed relationship.

The choice to stay married to her or not is yours but so are the consequences for choosing badly.


----------



## Jasel

No kids? Only been married a short time? You travel for work? Divorce ASAP.

Did you at least save the emails or forward them to yourself?


----------



## SecondTime'Round

Wow, there sure are a lot of people who come here, don't follow advice, and then just fade away......


----------



## Chaparral

Why did she say the affair ended?

Did she ever say she suspected you of having an affair?

How long are you away from home at a time?


----------



## LongWalk

Sometimes couples who are struggling to figure things out need to talk to each other. TAM could be a place to do that if wayward spouses were not hounded. Those who urge divorce may be right if there is a right, but HappyMan and EleGirl have a point. It is too easy to treat people as disposable in modern society. We are accustomed to channel surfing. Don't like what you're seeing or feeling, click and it is gone.

OP's wife says she wants to be with him. He may want to listen. Adriana found adultery to be a deal breaker. Everyone must come to their own decision. Once a you discover that you're with a cheater, you discover your choices were taken from you. The decision to attempt R or not is a choice. Why deprive yourself of it in haste?


----------



## Nawlins

OP, First I am sorry you are here. You’ve received a lot of good advice here, and perhaps I missed this, but I have a few other items you should get from your wife. First, all of those deleted emails. They should be in the Sent or Trash folder, or you can request them from the email account server. Second, get her to give you a written timeline of the affair including all the details. You don’t need to read any of these if you don’t wish to, but keep them just in case. Third, have her send email, FB, some kind of written communication to the OMW and get a copy of that as well. If she refuses any of these things you know where she stands with reconciling. I ask you to do this because I believe Illinois is an At Fault state and if you do decide to get a divorce, you can use this information to protect yourself and your assets.


----------



## Mr Blunt

*



By Gizbug
My question is, what do I do?

Click to expand...

*

What Elegirl wrote is good advice especially about getting books from professionals because this infidelity is their specialty. However, you did ask for our take and some of the advice given is pretty good stuff IMO. Some of those posters really brought out some facts that would make me bring those facts into my decision. She knew you were hurt badly in the past with cheaters, she had not even been married to you for 3 years when she cheated, and she never was truthful until you forced the truth out of her, etc.


From you posts it seems like at this point you want to R. I can tell you as a man that has over 25 years of R that the chances of you trusting her more after R than you did before R has the chance of slim to none. I can also tell you that your concern about her strong character has seen permanently damaged. You will never be confident of her having strong strength and total loyalty to you; IOW, you will perceive her as weak in some areas and that is very hard on security. This is what happened to me and my wife was upfront and honest and told me before any real action happened. And we had been married for 18 years, had three children together, without any infidelity. Those are some things that your wife does not have. *Is this the first time that she has cheated on a husband or boyfriend?*


However, it is possible that you and her can give it 100% for many years and have a good marriage but your chances of having a great marriage are around 1%. I have a good marriage but it is not a marriage of great admiration and I see my wife as weak. She has some very good qualities but she is definitely weak. I also have some very good advantages because we did R. I have a great relationship with my children and we are very close. That is very important to me and I doubt very seriously if I would have this great of a relationship with my children if we did not R.


Elegirl is right we can only give you our experience but it will always wind up in your lap as to what you are going to do. No two men are the same or any two women; marriage is a great multitude of character combinations. 

You did want us to give you our take and this is my final take with the information you have given. I would seriously consider divorce and tell her that you can start over and work hard at the relationship. *I would test her and yourself for several years before I would make a final decision on taking the relationship farther or going your separate ways. That way you will be much more secure on what is best for you IMO*. I do not think that you will be able to make a solid decision in just one year as your emotions are too raw and unreliable.


----------



## MattMatt

Has she revealed why she cheated so soon into the marriage?


----------



## jdawg2015

The fact that you had two previous cheaters and now this one tells me you are going to have even worse trust issue than typical. Understandably so.

Do you want to look over your shoulder every time you are flying or she's on the road? I suspect you'll always have this in the back of your mind.

My advice, even as much as you may love her, is get a divorce. You will save yourself a lifetime of anxiety.


----------



## Dogbert

OP,

Since you've shown an uncanny knack for picking cheaters, you should.seriously consider getting some counseling to find why attract and are attracted to fidelity challenged women.


----------



## Forest

Gizbug.

I found about about my wife's affair many years after it happened. At this stage in life I don't want/can't afford/can't deal with divorce and all it entails. I'm 1.5 years post Dday, and still think about it constantly. It will haunt me till my dying day, I fear.

Do what you think is best. Some men are capable of great forgiveness, and new beginnings. Some can push those *images of their wife with another man* out of their minds. Others can't. Decide which you are.

No kids is huge.


----------



## Forest

Dogbert said:


> OP,
> 
> Since you've shown an uncanny knack for picking cheaters, you should.seriously consider getting some counseling to find why attract and are attracted to fidelity challenged women.


Did he say something about picking multiple cheaters?

edit: Now I see it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

gizbug said:


> I told her when we met, I've been cheated on twice in the past with women I've dated, and that to never do that to me as that hurts the worst.


----------



## LongWalk

If Gizbug drops out of TAM, we ought to ask ourselves if we are too strident. There is nothing wrong with taking a hard line but the level of certainty is too high.


----------



## happy as a clam

LongWalk said:


> If Gizbug drops out of TAM, we ought to ask ourselves if we are too strident.


I see your point LW.

But, I have noticed a LOT of new threads lately where the OP gets really good advice (nothing harsh or judgmental) and then only comes back once or twice, never to be heard from again. Or never even replies, period.

I am starting to think they post the same query on multiple forums, and then "go" with only one of them.

:scratchhead:


----------



## Decorum

Chaparral said:


> Why did she say the affair ended?


Lots of unanswered questions.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Since they both travel extensively for work, if Gizbug tries to reconcile, he is always going to have doubts when she is away. I don't see how in this situation one can recover and get to a stated trust again. His mind will be racing every time she is away.

For clarification, the affair had ended in November, and you've caught it recently, or you caught it in November and it ended at that point. Always wondering if she is remorseful, or taking the affair underground.

If you decide to reconcile, her therapist needs to go. Finito. She either condoned the affair or your wife built a therapist - patient relationship built on lies there as well. Waste of time.

And yes, tell the other mans wife today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedDad

happy as a clam said:


> But, I have noticed a LOT of new threads lately where the OP gets really good advice (nothing harsh or judgmental) and then only comes back once or twice, never to be heard from again. Or never even replies, period.
> 
> I am starting to think they post the same query on multiple forums, and then "go" with only one of them.


I think many people post because they'd rather be told what they want to hear than the truth. They have no interest in making hard choices, they just want poor decisions validated.

His college buddy gave him perfectly sound advice. Why did he post here then? Because, he didn't agree with it so he came here instead. Now he doesn't want to hear the same thing so most likely he probably went somewhere else. 

He will continue to make the rounds because deep down he knows he's being weak and lacks the will to do something about it. When you look at it objectively, his situation is a no brainer. Unfortunately, some lack the self respect to draw the line in the sand and cheaters prey on these types of people.

Really sad.


----------



## Chris Taylor

happy as a clam said:


> OP... are you still here?
> 
> I hope you are taking all this in...


I hope he is, too. But remember even though this is 5 pages of comments it's about 18 hours old and the guy flies for a living. Can't really expect him to log on from the ****pit.


----------



## naiveonedave

happy as a clam said:


> I see your point LW.
> 
> But, I have noticed a LOT of new threads lately where the OP gets really good advice (nothing harsh or judgmental) and then only comes back once or twice, never to be heard from again. Or never even replies, period.
> 
> I am starting to think they post the same query on multiple forums, and then "go" with only one of them.
> 
> :scratchhead:


I scan some of the other forums, and there are clearly folks who post the same issue on multiple boards.


----------



## gizbug

happyman64 said:


> Gizbug
> 
> Can I make some suggestions that I hope you follow?
> 
> 1. Slow down. Just because you have no children and your wife is a liar and a cheater is not a reason to divorce her if you love her.
> 
> Many people love to say "Run, Run and divorce her".
> 
> What I am telling you is to not jump to any long term decisions right away.
> 
> Slow down. See a lawyer. Get advice and have additional talks with your wife.
> 
> 2. Your wife is still in control. If she is truly remorseful she will do a few things to show she is remorseful.
> A. Gives you complete access to all electronics and email/social accounts.
> B. She will not delete any incriminating/nonincriminating information.
> C. She will stop lying and be 100% honest with you.
> D. She will stop telling what is not good or right when ot comes to your feelings or getting the marriage back on track.
> 
> 3. You take control. By that I mean you setup and pick the MC. You speak with her IC about why she did not encourage your wife to be truthful about the affair to you. Listen carefully to what the therapist says. All therapists have opinions but it does not mean they are right....
> 
> 4. You alert the OMW about the affair and how long it went on for.
> 
> I hope you got some evidence before your wife deleted it.
> 
> 5. Get tested for STD's.
> 
> It is bad that your wife was lying through counseling and that she did not come clean while hoping to improve the marriage.
> 
> Give her credit for ending the affair.
> 
> More important than MC is her working her therapist (IC) to find out why she chose to cheat instead of coming to you.
> 
> SHe is obviously a hard worker and a professional so why is her self esteem, lack of morals or healthy boundaries an issue.
> 
> Make her find out why?????
> 
> The choice to R or D is yours now. If you truly love her let your emotions settle and put off any major decisions for a few months.
> 
> Focus on your flying!!!
> 
> HM


Thanks. We are seeing the couples/marriage consular who we have been using this year, on Monday. He will know everything that day, and we will go from there. She is spending $700 to fly back Saturday from San Fran, and head back out Monday afternoon to resume work. I will keep you updated on findings. We are suppose to have a chat tonight on the phone. We did not talk last night (I left town like her, went to my fathers in Michigan, and tomorrow I head south to a beach for 3 days).


----------



## gizbug

happyman64 said:


> I think she owes him a written timeline and a lot more honesty.


There is supposively her GMAIL password, and a written timeline at home on my counter for me. She left to take care of things I had requested before she flew out for work Sunday. However when she left, I waited, and left myself. So by her talks with her sister, the timeline is on the counter. As for what to do with it, I don't know. Bright it to the consoler on Monday? Scan it and keep it for future lawyer visit?


----------



## gizbug

Nawlins said:


> OP, First I am sorry you are here. You’ve received a lot of good advice here, and perhaps I missed this, but I have a few other items you should get from your wife. First, all of those deleted emails. They should be in the Sent or Trash folder, or you can request them from the email account server. Second, get her to give you a written timeline of the affair including all the details. You don’t need to read any of these if you don’t wish to, but keep them just in case. Third, have her send email, FB, some kind of written communication to the OMW and get a copy of that as well. If she refuses any of these things you know where she stands with reconciling. I ask you to do this because I believe Illinois is an At Fault state and if you do decide to get a divorce, you can use this information to protect yourself and your assets.


The emails were deleted from gmail, and not in the trash any longer....


----------



## gizbug

LongWalk said:


> If Gizbug drops out of TAM, we ought to ask ourselves if we are too strident. There is nothing wrong with taking a hard line but the level of certainty is too high.


I am still here. It just takes a long time after I reply, for a forum moderator to review and post my messages. I didn't know that was standard here. I have 3 replies from 30 minutes ago that haven't popped up yet, i just donated to the site and became a forum supporter, so now my posts are instant. Hopefully my other 3 posts appear soon


----------



## MattMatt

naiveonedave said:


> I scan some of the other forums, and there are clearly folks who post the same issue on multiple boards.


I could see why. In their fear and panic the reach out to many different voices.


----------



## gizbug

OK. I am still here. I am not going to wait for my 3 posts to appear, I will just delete them as duplicates if they do.

Quick update. Sunday, I told my wife she had to leave, I need space. She told me she would leave, and she said she would take care of what i asked for (Gmail password written down, not inputed into her web browser so all i see is ******, a written timeline of the affair, and a no communication contract that I found on the FAQ on this site). Shorty after she left, around noon, I left for the airport, and flew to see my father. She returned, and supposivley left what I had asked for, then flew out to CA at 4pm. 

Last night, I called a friend / Life coach who taught a Life Book class we both took and attended in Chicago. She reached out to me on Facebook, knows about betrayal and said I could call her. We talked for an hour. She basically said either way, I will have to rebuild my trust in people. Either with my wife, or with another woman eventually. She told me not to screen calls or text, but to reply with 1 or 2 word answers, and keep any phone calls (from her) short. 

This morning, I phoned the wifes sister. Her daughters (8, 12) love me and I am close with her sister and brother in law. I know they are on her side of the family, but I just called to talk. We talked for an hour. She cried, she is shocked, she told her sister to get help. She feels awful. As I pointed out earlier, one of my requests for my wife was to reach out to a family member and to talk to them. She isn't accustomed to doing this. She did as I requested, Sunday, and talked for an hour, explained it all to her sister. I did not want to ask for details, or take sides, or feed her sister any info, so I didn't. Her sister told me the last time she talked to her, she got home with what I requested, and I was gone already. She was worried about me, and about what will happen. 

Today, my wife called, we have an appointment monday, 9am, with the consoler. I told her to make it a 2 hour appointment, not 1. She said she would let him know. She is paying $800 to fly back Saturday, and leave monday afternoon for CA. She will be done in CA 2nd week of May.

As for those who say TRAVEL is an issue here. I get 13-15 days off a month, I am always reachable, and If i need to call in sick to be home to take care of something, I do it. My wife told me if she could take this week of she would, but she trains in hospitals how to use their cisco phones, and she is the only one out there to do the job. She did tell me her therapist will get in touch with her soon about a phone call appointment (which she normally does not do) sometime by the end of the week.

My wife couldn't talk long, was on a break, but said she will call tonight when i asked if there was anything else she needed to share, or add some more pieces to things missing in this mess. That is what I know as of now. Thanks for the input, Im reading it, processing it. Sorry I'm not on 24/7. Im trying to relax at my fathers house, get my mind off things and process. I AM STILL HERE THOUGH.


----------



## Dogbert

gizbug said:


> Last night, I called a friend / Life coach who taught a Life Book class we both took and attended in Chicago. She reached out to me on Facebook, knows about betrayal and said I could call her. We talked for an hour. *She basically said either way, I will have to rebuild my trust in people. Either with my wife, or with another woman eventually*


Trusting women in general is not the issue, what is the issue is trusting your judgement of the character of the women you choose to be seriously involved with.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

gizbug said:


> . We ... have no kids yet, .


The above says it all. Divorce her and move on. You can always remarry her if she gets it together, but frankly, by then you'll know you can do better. 

Sorry, but that's just the way it usually is. 

The alternative is to wallow in a failed relationship until, after more anguish, you come to the same conclusion.


----------



## G.J.

Your wife started an affair 18 months after getting married !!!!!

Was it emotional or purely physical that prompted the affair?

did they use hotels only, did she make him use protection, have you been tested for STDs

does his wife know?


----------



## commonsenseisn't

gizbug said:


> Who's responsibility is it to inform the spouse of her coworker about the affair? I told her she needs to do it. She doesn't see that has anything positive coming from that approach.


If you let her do it she'll spin it to her advantage. The best way is to do it by surprise so she and her affair partner can't work it against you. 

And yes, you should expose the affair to the affair partners spouse, your family and her family, all simultaneously and without warning.


----------



## gizbug

G.J. said:


> Your wife started an affair 18 months after getting married !!!!!
> 
> Was it emotional or purely physical that prompted the affair?
> 
> did they use hotels only, did she make him use protection, have you been tested for STDs
> 
> does his wife know?



I am not sure if it was emotional or physical. Hotel or protection I do not know. I will have more info when I talk tonight.

As for the person saying get the emails, they are no longer in the trash folder of gmail


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
You must now be diligent to ascertain your wife's true feelings. This is no easy task and will require a very level head and calm approach. Two things that are in short supply in situations such as this. However, from what you last posted your wife does seem interested in saving the marriage but to what depth does her sincerity reach. You will have to try to glean this information over the next weeks and months.

I find it a little troubling that your wife did not think this an emergency worth taking off time from work, her required expertise notwithstanding. This is her marriage after all but perhaps I am too critical as I ofttimes tend to be. I place very little ahead of my relationship in importance but I am somewhat unique. In any event, use this time to collect your thoughts and make the difficult decisions that you now face regarding continuing on in this relationship.

You will be guided by her actions if you are sensitively perceptive, not allowing your judgement to be clouded by emotion, to the extent that is possible. I wish you well.


----------



## Dogbert

gizbug said:


> Who's responsibility is it to inform the spouse of her coworker about the affair? I told her she needs to do it. She doesn't see that has anything positive coming from that approach


Nothing positive for her and the OM that is. Her attitude shows that she's not fighting to protect and preserve her marriage but to protect and preserve the OM and herself from the consequences of their betrayal to their respective spouses. It's called rugsweeping and it doesn't help to rebuild trust or to recover a marriage.


----------



## G.J.

gizbug said:


> I am not sure if it was emotional or physical. Hotel or protection I do not know. I will have more info when I talk tonight.
> 
> As for the person saying get the emails, they are no longer in the trash folder of gmail


Set up the account again on another computer and use windows live linked to gmail...im sure ive got about 2 years old emails when ive done this the other year

Any one verify this or some thing like this

or go to gmail
Click the drop down arrow from the search box at the top

Dont answer any of the questions but click on blue search button in bottom left
all deleted emails will be there even those deleted from trash


----------



## adriana

gizbug said:


> *I am not sure if it was emotional or physical. Hotel or protection I do not know.* I will have more info when I talk tonight.



It appears that she has flown from California to talk to you about a current wave of violent attacks against displaced foreign nationals in South Africa? :scratchhead:


----------



## 6301

I agree with a lot of the posters here. Why would you want to spend the rest of your life always looking over your shoulder and always wondering. 

If she was that concerned about the marriage, the last place she would want to be is in California. Not to mention that she doesn't want you to contact the OM wife.Contact the woman and let her know. She deserves to know what her husband is doing and I'll bet the house that your wife already let the OM know she got busted and he's stepping and fetching a way to hand his wife a story that some lady at work has a crazy husband (you) and he's hurling accusations about him and her so you just might be a dollar short and a day late.

Go find a lawyer, cut your losses and get on with your life before it's too late.


----------



## Dyokemm

Have you looked up the contact info for this POSOM's BW?

If not, do it ASAP and expose this pile of filth.

That is the best and most effective way to make sure the A ends immediately.

And then contact the SOB to make sure he understands that if he makes one more attempt to f*ck with your M and personal life, you will contact the HR department at his work and nuke his career. 

Make this POS wish he had never heard of you or your WW....give him PTSD every time he hears either of your names mentioned.


----------



## Nawlins

gizbug said:


> I am not sure if it was emotional or physical. Hotel or protection I do not know. I will have more info when I talk tonight.
> 
> As for the person saying get the emails, they are no longer in the trash folder of gmail


Gizbug, check the Sent folder or if you wish contact the service provider and see if they can be restored; although if you have a written timeline of her admitting the affair that may be good enough. 

I would suggest gathering as much evidence of it as possible in case your efforts to reconcile don’t pan out. Perhaps you could ask your SIL to send you an email of what they talked about. One more thing, I did the MC thing for about a year and never got to the “why” of the affair. 

I encourage you to use your MC sessions to talk about what she has learned about herself, the “why” of the affair, what she intends to do to fix this mess, and if the marriage means anything to her before you discuss what may have been wrong in your relationship. Very often these sessions turn into what you both did wrong, which should be talked about, but not before her issues are discussed at length. 

You stayed true to your vows even if your marriage was not great, she did not.


----------



## toonaive

Be very careful in the amount/kind of information you disseminate to the in laws.


----------



## BetrayedDad

gizbug said:


> I am not sure if it was emotional or physical. Hotel or protection I do not know.


The fact that you don't even know this much by now is deplorable and should lead you to absolutely assume the worst. 

How can you possibly forgive some who wronged you when you have no idea what they did? If you have not gotten the full truth by now, honestly I doubt you ever will.

After 10 months and with you not around so much? More likely than not it was almost certainly physical, in your house and very rarely do cheaters ever use protection.

In you insist on attempting to reconcile the first place I'd put a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) is in your bedroom when you're out of town.


----------



## ButtPunch

Tell the OM's wife pronto. Don't tell your WW about it....just do it.


----------



## GusPolinski

gizbug said:


> I am not sure if it was emotional or physical. Hotel or protection I do not know. I will have more info when I talk tonight.
> 
> As for the person saying get the emails, they are no longer in the trash folder of gmail


No offense, but you'd be a naive fool to believe that a 10-month affair w/ a co-worker never went physical.


----------



## gizbug

I'm still trying to get through the Mr Nice Guy pdf that was shared in this thread. Great read. We meet for 2 hours with the marriage Consoleur Monday. I may make my decision then. I flew down to Fort Lauderdale today, alone, for 3 days to clear my head, digest and re-read the posts here and the recommended readings. I'll keep u posted


----------



## bandit.45

gizbug said:


> I'm still trying to get through the Mr Nice Guy pdf that was shared in this thread. Great read. We meet for 2 hours with the marriage Consoleur Monday. I may make my decision then. I flew down to Fort Lauderdale today, alone, for 3 days to clear my head, digest and re-read the posts here and the recommended readings. I'll keep u posted


Do what you need to do, but the NMMNG and all that reading is probably a waste of time. Showing her tangible actions...like going to a lawyer and drawing up papers is one way to make a statement she will understand. 

And like others have said, she is lying through her pretty teeth when she tells you her 10 month long affair never went physical. I guarantee you she had sex with him...lots.


----------



## PBDad

and did things you'd only dream of...

Put a plan of action together yesterday.
-Lawyer to do papers now, have her served in a public way.
-Protect your finances
-Expose to OM Wife and friends if you know them
-Tell your and your wife family and friends before she lies that you beat her. He who exposes first is believed. The other is damage control and is not to be believed. Move fast.
-STD test ASAP

Dump her like lava. Shes broken


----------



## Dogbert

gizbug View Post said:


> Then I asked if she had a relationship with him? Exchanged dirty emails? Had a sexual affair with him? She said No. I told her I saw the emails and hung up. She called back, sobbing, apologizing and saying it was true.


A strictly EA seldom, if ever, goes into "dirty emails" stage. The presence of those sexually explicit emails indicates a very high likelihood that it was a PA. In any case, EA or PA, she cheated and that is what counts.


----------



## gizbug

Nawlins said:


> Gizbug, check the Sent folder or if you wish contact the service provider and see if they can be restored; although if you have a written timeline of her admitting the affair that may be good enough.
> 
> I would suggest gathering as much evidence of it as possible in case your efforts to reconcile don’t pan out. Perhaps you could ask your SIL to send you an email of what they talked about. One more thing, I did the MC thing for about a year and never got to the “why” of the affair.
> 
> I encourage you to use your MC sessions to talk about what she has learned about herself, the “why” of the affair, what she intends to do to fix this mess, and if the marriage means anything to her before you discuss what may have been wrong in your relationship. Very often these sessions turn into what you both did wrong, which should be talked about, but not before her issues are discussed at length.
> 
> You stayed true to your vows even if your marriage was not great, she did not.


Excellent post! I appreciate the advice on what I should ask/expect/bring up with the MC! Thank you!


----------



## gizbug

bandit.45 said:


> Do what you need to do, but the NMMNG and all that reading is probably a waste of time. Showing her tangible actions...like going to a lawyer and drawing up papers is one way to make a statement she will understand.
> 
> And like others have said, she is lying through her pretty teeth when she tells you her 10 month long affair never went physical. I guarantee you she had sex with him...lots.


The affair was physical, the person was also brought over to our condo and stuff happened in our condo (she has repeated to me that nothing happened in the bedroom).

I told her in a text "So he wanted to **** around but not take u to his house to do it? He must have respect his wife to some degree with that decision"

She had a talk where her therapist today, I asked to 3 way in. The therapist didn't think it was wise as this was the first time the therapist got to talk to her after i learned of the affair. The therapist is will to meet with both of us after today though. Wife told me in text when i asked if she got something out of the call with therapist "It was good to be able to share and process. I am looking forward to our time with the MC" She is also searching for another job. Monday will be the big day, when we meet with the MC. I'm not expecting miracles. I will be looking up lawyers tomorrow when I am on the beach.

She told me the guy's wife found an email from her, to her husband, and confronted her husband about it. The affair ended, a NO CONTACT agreement was made, and there has been no contact since.

So The condo will be sold, either way (divorce or reconcile). That is no longer a safe haven for me to call home.


----------



## happyman64

Gizbug

All I will repeat is to approach this process with caution.

Your wife has shown a lot of disrespect for you and the marriage.

But what I consider worse is the lack of respect she has shown herself.

She willingly brought a third person into your marriage (and home) without discussing it with you.

Your wife is pretty lost.

She definitely needs that therapist.

I will also mention one other thing. I honestly think she wanted to get caught by you.

Stay cool. Stay calm.

You are going to realize this affair had very little to do with you.

Very sad.

HM

PS
You should verify that the OMW really knows and that this is not a lie.
It does not hurt to make contact with the other battered spouse to verify stories and share evidence.


----------



## GusPolinski

gizbug said:


> The affair was physical, the person was also brought over to our condo and stuff happened in our condo (she has repeated to me that nothing happened in the bedroom).
> 
> I told her in a text "So he wanted to **** around but not take u to his house to do it? He must have respect his wife to some degree with that decision"
> 
> She had a talk where her therapist today, I asked to 3 way in. The therapist didn't think it was wise as this was the first time the therapist got to talk to her after i learned of the affair. The therapist is will to meet with both of us after today though. Wife told me in text when i asked if she got something out of the call with therapist "It was good to be able to share and process. I am looking forward to our time with the MC" She is also searching for another job. Monday will be the big day, when we meet with the MC. I'm not expecting miracles. I will be looking up lawyers tomorrow when I am on the beach.
> 
> *She told me the guy's wife found an email from her, to her husband, and confronted her husband about it. The affair ended, a NO CONTACT agreement was made, and there has been no contact since.*
> 
> So The condo will be sold, either way (divorce or reconcile). That is no longer a safe haven for me to call home.


I'd have an easier time believing that if she HADN'T deleted the e-mails.

Look, you have to consider the very real possibility that your wife is lying to you about this. Contact OMW and speak to her for yourself. Either do it w/o telling your wife OR tell her that you're going to do it and that you expect her to assist you in reaching out to OMW; her reaction to this should be *very* telling.

Now for the bad news... your WW might be telling the truth. If so, the affair only ended because OMW found out about it and forced OM to end things. IOW, _*OM dumped your WW*_. If not for that, they'd likely still be seeing each other, and it's very likely that your wife has a ton of unresolved feelings left over from that.

Something else to consider as you head into MC.


----------



## Doyle

(she has repeated to me that nothing happened in the bedroom).

Does this seem likely.


----------



## jim123

gizbug said:


> The affair was physical, the person was also brought over to our condo and stuff happened in our condo (she has repeated to me that nothing happened in the bedroom).
> 
> I told her in a text "So he wanted to **** around but not take u to his house to do it? He must have respect his wife to some degree with that decision"
> 
> She had a talk where her therapist today, I asked to 3 way in. The therapist didn't think it was wise as this was the first time the therapist got to talk to her after i learned of the affair. The therapist is will to meet with both of us after today though. Wife told me in text when i asked if she got something out of the call with therapist "It was good to be able to share and process. I am looking forward to our time with the MC" She is also searching for another job. Monday will be the big day, when we meet with the MC. I'm not expecting miracles. I will be looking up lawyers tomorrow when I am on the beach.
> 
> She told me the guy's wife found an email from her, to her husband, and confronted her husband about it. The affair ended, a NO CONTACT agreement was made, and there has been no contact since.
> 
> So The condo will be sold, either way (divorce or reconcile). That is no longer a safe haven for me to call home.


It may be a lie about OMW finding out and there is no contact. It is the best way for you not to contact the other BS. Make sure you contact the other BS to be certain.

Find an IT guy or a PI to get the emails for you.

Do not go to MC so soon. I would wait until you know everything and you are sure the affair is over. The MC will push you toward R.

See an attorney that handles mostly men. Get an MC from them, that MC will be fair. I can send some names as I am in Chicago as well.

Too many people rush to R and it is a mistake to do so. Get control first.


----------



## jim123

Doyle said:


> (she has repeated to me that nothing happened in the bedroom).
> 
> Does this seem likely.


Nope, I will bet it is the first place they did it. The key is for him to stop allowing her to lie to him. Call her out and tell her no way it did not happen in the bedroom.


----------



## Dogbert

If it wasn't sad it would be comical to believe that once they started a PA that she and the OM would "show respect" by not having sex in the matrimonial bed. And even if that was the case, it doesn't lessen the gut wrenching ordeal of her betrayal just a little over a year after she got married.


----------



## LongWalk

Gizbug,

Do contact OM's wife and speak with her personally.You cannot rely on your wife's claim with OM as the source. These are two people, who after all have conspired to deceive you.

Regarding the bed room, you must hope that she changed the sheets before you got back in. Did you notice that the sheets were always fresh when you got home? If so, was that a sign of respect?


----------



## Nawlins

Gizbug, if it’s true that the OMW found an email from your WW, it makes me question if the affair would have ever ended; in my case the OMW discovered her WH and my WW were having the affair and informed me. I tried the MC route for about a year, but my WW could never convince me that she would have ended the affair on her own, that I and our marriage were her number 1, and that she was remorseful. 

I agree with the others that you and your wife should personally contact the OMW, maybe even the OM. If you WW protests at all then she is not prepared to reconcile. She needs to come totally clean, she should retrieve all those emails in your presence, and IMO I would tell that if any new information is discovered it's all over. 

I also encourage you to speak with a lawyer, draw up divorce papers and serve her. Her response may tell you a lot about where she is at with all of this mess.

I’ll reiterate what I posted earlier, from this point on it’s on your WW to prove that she wants to be married, that you are her number 1, that she is sorry. MC sessions should be about her and why she strayed; don’t let you WW or the MC deviate off of this topic; expect your WW and/or the MC to try. I wish you good luck, but if you are like me in the end the act of betrayal was too much to overcome and I moved on.


----------



## bandit.45

Gizbug the one thing you need to get through your head in these early days after DDay is this:

Adulterers lie.


They lie and lie and lie. They put on a big act while at the same time taking the affair underground and making it harder for you to track their movements. 

You should not take anything your wife says at face value during this time. Nothing. She will lie to you, she will lie to the counselor, she will lie to her family and friends...she will lie, lie , lie. 

Verify every claim that comes out of her pretty cheating mouth. Stop thinking of her as your wife. She is the mother of your children, but she is far, far away from being a wife right now. 

You need to completely reconstruct your way of thinking. You are no longer a member of a team. You were fired from that position... you just didn't get the memo.


----------



## gizbug

happyman64 said:


> Gizbug
> 
> 
> 
> All I will repeat is to approach this process with caution.
> 
> 
> 
> Your wife has shown a lot of disrespect for you and the marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> But what I consider worse is the lack of respect she has shown herself.
> 
> 
> 
> She willingly brought a third person into your marriage (and home) without discussing it with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Your wife is pretty lost.
> 
> 
> 
> She definitely needs that therapist.
> 
> 
> 
> I will also mention one other thing. I honestly think she wanted to get caught by you.
> 
> 
> 
> Stay cool. Stay calm.
> 
> 
> 
> You are going to realize this affair had very little to do with you.
> 
> 
> 
> Very sad.
> 
> 
> 
> HM
> 
> 
> 
> PS
> 
> You should verify that the OMW really knows and that this is not a lie.
> 
> It does not hurt to make contact with the other battered spouse to verify stories and share evidence.



Than you. As I sit here in the beach in Fort Lauderdale I am now processing with pen and paper. I am making a list of questions to bring up to the MC. Also a list of what haunts me and then I can analyze it to see if it's things I can live with or get over. The scenery here is refreshing a sign that the are many "fish" in the sea. I am still married. And won't do anything I regret to ease the pain. 2 wrongs don't make right


----------



## gizbug

bandit.45 said:


> Verify every claim that comes out of her pretty cheating mouth. Stop thinking of her as your wife. She is the mother of your children, but she is far, far away from being a wife right now.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to completely reconstruct your way of thinking. You are no longer a member of a team. You were fired from that position... you just didn't get the memo.



Thank you. We have no kids btw. I appreciate your insight


----------



## gizbug

jim123 said:


> It may be a lie about OMW finding out and there is no contact. It is the best way for you not to contact the other BS. Make sure you contact the other BS to be certain.
> 
> 
> 
> Find an IT guy or a PI to get the emails for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Do not go to MC so soon. I would wait until you know everything and you are sure the affair is over. The MC will push you toward R.
> 
> 
> 
> See an attorney that handles mostly men. Get an MC from them, that MC will be fair. I can send some names as I am in Chicago as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Too many people rush to R and it is a mistake to do so. Get control first.



Please PM names. Thanks
I am not sure how to a nunber or address for the guys wife. I think I found her linkened page
I could message her in there but what do I say


----------



## tom67

gizbug said:


> Please PM names. Thanks
> I am not sure how to a nunber or address for the guys wife. I think I found her linkened page
> I could message her in there but what do I say


If you know where she works call her there.
Emails can be intercepted.


----------



## gizbug

Says she is freelancer worker


----------



## happyman64

gizbug said:


> Please PM names. Thanks
> I am not sure how to a nunber or address for the guys wife. I think I found her linkened page
> I could message her in there but what do I say


You tell her the truth.

You can share a few dates with her.

Then you can extend your info if she wants to speak with you or share any information.

Keep it simple.

Also, glad you got away. That was the best move you could have made.

WHat is your wife's attitude like right now when you speak to each other???


----------



## Graywolf2

gizbug said:


> I am not sure how to a nunber or address for the guys wife. I think I found her linkened page
> I could message her in there but what do I say


Identify yourself. Give her your contact information and offer to be available for any questions. Tell her that you found emails between your wife and her husband that indicate that they had an affair. 

Your wife admits it and swears the affair ended when you (OMW) also discovered them. Your wife says that a no contact agreement was reached. You just want to verify that the affair was exposed and over like your wife said.

If the OMW doesn’t know then the OM is very motivated to keep her in the dark. Do not let your wife know that you are making contact. Do not trust any contact information your wife gives you. 

WS will intercept emails and clam to be the BS. He will act upset and say to never contact them again. If he knows the call is coming he will get a female friend to act as his wife.


----------



## bandit.45

gizbug said:


> Thank you. *We have no kids btw*. I appreciate your insight


All the better.


----------



## Nawlins

Gizbug,
A few things struck me from your posts. You WW did not seeing a therapist until the affair was over? Why? Was it because she missed the AP or because she regretted the affair and what she did to you? 

Your WW then coerced you into MC and had you believing that something was wrong with your marriage, but she did this after having her affair. So now you are attending MC thinking your marriage is failing and what can you do to make it better when both the MC and your WW knew she had an affair; I’m assuming the MC is also you WW’s IC. 

This is manipulative behavior on the part of one or both of them if the MC knew about the affair and it makes me question if attending MC is in your best interest if the MC knew. As far as you know, they have talked through these issues and are controlling where the MC goes. 

If it were me I would ask the MC, in private, why your WW came to counseling, what have they talked about, how many times your WW and the AP had sex, etc., without giving any hints as to what you want to know or do know. This is an opportunity to see if the details match the timeline. 

If the MC knew about the affair, and again if it were me, I would choose another MC. I don’t believe it’s ethical for an MC to counsel you when he/she knows the other side of the story and you are in the dark. 

Your WW has deleted all the emails to the AP and told you they don’t matter anymore. They don’t matter to her because the affair is over due to her AP being caught. But they should matter to you because you don’t know what her feelings are/were for the AP and those emails open a window into their relationship.

Your WW doesn’t want you to speak with the OMW because “nothing positive will come of it.” This is not her choice. This is your opportunity to confirm your WW’s story. I read from another thread where the BH told his WW that they would call the OM/OMW together, at that moment, and ask the BH to recount the timeline his WW had given him. Guess what, the WW faltered and the BH knew the story was BS. 

Tell your wife that you want her to call the OM with you present to hear the NC agreement and then start asking the OM to validate your WW’s timeline without telling him what your WW told you. See if the details match, but don’t tell your WW this is your intent with calling. 

Just my two cents…


----------



## tonygunner007

It's kinda hard for you right now - i know. You're felling really devastated and some how you're blaming yourself. But this is not a time for self-blame (it's hard not to... I know). 

This is the time for understanding.

From what you've said, I see she loves you - very much. But she's human. And as a human, she has needs (... needs that only you is supposed to fulfill). And when you don't fulfill it, she became vulnerable. She REALLY needed intimacy (with you) but work separated you both - which is not your fault (or hers). 

You just had to work. No choice.

You can hear her saying that you don't notice her when she's naked. Those are signs that she was really into YOU. She needed your passion but the stress of work dampened your libido - not comfort. 

She hid that secret from you because she was afraid of what could happen if you found out. Yes she was wrong on that but it is a sign - she gives a damn.

Intense emotion can make a person less logical: it can weaken the influence of the brain. That can explain why she didn't think about therapy at that moment (of heat). 

When she fell into the temptation, guilt took over. From guilt to anger... and so forth... And then the therapy idea. And if you understand how a woman's mind works, you'd know it kinda cascades.

Now that we've done with the understanding part, let's deal with the solution. 

My tips...

1. Forgive her and trust her again (yes, it's kinda a risk right now). Remember your (work) lifestyle also contributed to the situation.

2. Manage your stress: As long as you come home stressed, getting REALLY horny for her may be difficult. Relaxation is a precursor to x-ual desire.

3. Stay in touch often, no matter how busy your day is: Phone calling, texting, email... any method. I suggest doing this a least every night. This helps you both feel closer to each other. Ask her about her day and talk about yours. Pay more attention to the emotional side of things. This can also help with the stress.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

gizbug said:


> The affair was physical, the person was also brought over to our condo and stuff happened in our condo (she has repeated to me that nothing happened in the bedroom).
> 
> I told her in a text "So he wanted to **** around but not take u to his house to do it? He must have respect his wife to some degree with that decision"
> 
> She had a talk where her therapist today, I asked to 3 way in. The therapist didn't think it was wise as this was the first time the therapist got to talk to her after i learned of the affair. The therapist is will to meet with both of us after today though. Wife told me in text when i asked if she got something out of the call with therapist "It was good to be able to share and process. I am looking forward to our time with the MC" She is also searching for another job. Monday will be the big day, when we meet with the MC. I'm not expecting miracles. I will be looking up lawyers tomorrow when I am on the beach.
> 
> She told me the guy's wife found an email from her, to her husband, and confronted her husband about it. The affair ended, a NO CONTACT agreement was made, and there has been no contact since.
> 
> So The condo will be sold, either way (divorce or reconcile). That is no longer a safe haven for me to call home.


Gizbug, sorry about your ordeal. Unfortunately you are forced to play this game with your wife and you need to wrap your heart and mind around some facts that will affect your future strategy. 

First, as Bandit pointed out, cheaters lie. Thus you cannot trust ANYTHING she tells you because she is in full damage control mode. This means she will feed you half truths, mind games, blatant lies, anything, to implement damage control. 

You need to question everything, however trivial, that she tells you because you can be sure she has an agenda behind it. Once in a while a cheater will see the light and come clean and truly turn it around, but don't bet on it until there is irrefutable and consistent long term proof from her. 

Secondly, I would view her therapist with suspicion because this persons agenda is to help your wife, not you. In fact, I would consider this person to be a potential toxic enabler until proven otherwise. 

Don't assume the therapist is on your side or the side of your marriages' health. Do assume your wife is using the therapist as leverage to gain more damage control. 

("It was good to be able to share and process ... I'm looking forward to meeting with ... blah blah.") Are you kidding me?! 

What she should have said if she had a clue, and if the therapist was worth a crap, would be something like: the therapist helped me see what a monumental offense I am guilty of. I am totally wrong and what I did is inexcusable and despicable. The therapist has outlined a game plan to help me overcome my faults ... 

You need to know that without this kind of attitude on her part you will get nowhere. As long as there is a therapist in the background coddling her delicate little cheater psyche you will loose this war. 

Thirdly, don't automatically assume the marriage counselor will be competent. There are plenty of dolts out there who will blur the lines with all sorts of idiotic conclusions and advice. 

Try to determine beforehand what is non negotiable in your heart and hold wife and counselor to it. Feel free to fire the counselor if what (s)he says doesn't feel right to you. 

Fourth, don't believe anything she tells you about the other man or his wife. She is selectively leaking info to you to further her agenda of damage control and maybe even taking the affair underground or making it dormant so it can be resurrected later. 

Fifth, get a lawyer asap. Protect your interests and serve her papers. She might be playing nice right now but that will change and you will need someone to fight for you. 

If, by a rare chance, your wife truly repents and by consistent actions changes her ways and gets her act together you can always remarry her or call off the divorce. 

Experience has shown many of us that it's best to steam ahead toward divorce in these situations. Especially if the marriage is young and no kids are in the picture. Good luck.


----------



## ConanHub

Much good advice already. Gotta say it doesn't look good. No kids. Trickle Truth. Was still working with captain douche bag.

Wish you the best but I think you can do better and deserve it too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gizbug

PI suggested I write a letter to the OW and they will hand deliver it for me to her doorstep. I just need to figure out what to put in the letter right now


----------



## tonygunner007

It's kinda hard for you right now - i know. You're felling really devastated and some how you're blaming yourself. But this is not a time for self-blame (it's hard not to... I know). 

This is the time for understanding.

From what you've said, I see she loves you - very much. But she's human. And as a human, she has needs (... needs that only you is supposed to fulfill). And when you were not fulfilling it, she became vulnerable. She REALLY needed intimacy (with you) but work separated you both - which is not your fault (or hers). 

You just had to work. No choice.

You can hear her saying that you don't notice her when she's naked. Those are signs that she was really into YOU. She needed your passion but the stress of work dampened your libido - not comfort. 

She hid that secret (the cheating) from you because she was afraid of what could happen if you found out. Yes she was wrong on that but it is a sign - she gives a damn.

Intense emotion can make a person less logical: it can weaken the influence of the brain. That can explain why she didn't think about therapy at the moment. 

When she fell into the temptation, guilt took over. From guilt to anger... and so forth... And then the therapy idea. And if you understand how a woman's mind works, you'd know it kinda cascades.

Now that we've done with the understanding part, let's deal with the solution. 

My tips...

1. Forgive her and trust her again (yes, it's kinda a risk right now). Remember your (work) lifestyle also contributed to the situation.

2. Manage your stress: As long as you come home stressed, getting REALLY horny for her may be difficult. Relaxation is a precursor to x-ual desire.

3. Stay in touch often, no matter how busy your day is: Phone calling, texting, email... any method. I suggest doing this a least every night. This helps you both feel closer to each other. Ask her about her day and talk about yours. Pay more attention to the emotional side of things. This can also help with the stress.


----------



## Jasel

Whatever you give her make sure it's concrete proof of the affair. Not just a synopsis of what happened that you can't back up. Then it just turns into he said/she said, and cheaters can give Oscar worthy performances when it comes to lying.


----------



## happyman64

gizbug said:


> PI suggested I write a letter to the OW and they will hand deliver it for me to her doorstep. I just need to figure out what to put in the letter right now


You keep it simple.

Explain what you discovered about the affair.

You wish to confirm that she is aware of the affair and that a NC is in place.

You offer what evidence you have if she desires to see it.

Last but least you give her one or two ways to contact you securely via email of phone if she wishes to.

Keep it simple.


----------



## farsidejunky

adriana said:


> It appears that she has flown from California to talk to you about a current wave of violent attacks against displaced foreign nationals in South Africa? :scratchhead:


Obscure humor much?



/end TJ


----------



## farsidejunky

What proof does he have other than a confession? The emails are gone.

There will have to be some discussion of things that cannot be proven on paper with the OMW.


----------



## carmen ohio

gizbug said:


> . . . I told her when we met, I've been cheated on twice in the past with women I've dated, and that to never do that to me as that hurts the worst . . .


Dear gizbug,

For a number of reasons, I agree with those who have advised you to divorce your WW:

- You don't have children and therefore have no overarching reason to preserve your marriage.

- You're relatively young and have a good career, so you should have no problem finding a new and (hopefully) better mate.

- Your WW's behavior in all of this (long-term affair, going through the motions of working on her marriage while cheating behind your back, lying when confronted, deleting incriminating e-mails, etc.) makes her a poor candidate for reconciliation.

But the real reason I am posting on your thread is to discuss the issue that cgiles raised in post #5: the fact that you now have been cheated on by three different women.

cgiles sagely advised you to read NMMNG and I believe you have said you are reading it. Good. But you really need to get to the bottom of this problem because, clearly, something is amiss in your relationships with women. The fact that this has happened three times strongly suggests that it is not simply bad luck but rather that you are doing something wrong. Are you somehow inclined to choose untrustworthy partners, or doing something that causes your partners to believe they can get away with cheating on you, or possibly even creating a relationship dynamic that encourages them to look for sexual fulfillment with other men? 

IMO, before making a decision to divorce or reconcile with your WW, you need at least begin to figure this out. Otherwise, you run the risk of a failed reconciliation, if you decide to give your WW a second chance, or, if you decide to divorce her, of suffering the same outcome with your next partner.

So, before you commit to anything long-term with your WW, do some serious introspection about your past relationships, talk to family members and close friends about what they have observed, and consider seeking professional help.

I believe you will be well rewarded if you do.


----------



## sidney2718

Doyle said:


> (she has repeated to me that nothing happened in the bedroom).
> 
> Does this seem likely.


Does it even matter? So they confined their physical activity to the dining room table so it doesn't really count?

That wife is a strange person.


----------



## GusPolinski

sidney2718 said:


> Does it even matter? So they confined their physical activity to the dining room table so it doesn't really count?
> 
> That wife is a strange person.


FWIW, it would matter to me. I mean... I'd already be replacing a dining room table... I'd want to know whether or not I needed to replace my bed as well. Additionally, if I were at all inclined to reconcile in the face of a physical betrayal (though I can't imagine that I would), knowing that my wife had allowed another man to touch her *in the same bed where we'd made love countless times* would make it all the more likely that I'd choose to divorce.


----------



## sidney2718

GusPolinski said:


> FWIW, it would matter to me. I mean... I'd already be replacing a dining room table... I'd want to know whether or not I needed to replace my bed as well. Additionally, if I were at all inclined to reconcile in the face of a physical betrayal (though I can't imagine that I would), knowing that my wife had allowed another man to touch her *in the same bed where we'd made love countless times* would make it all the more likely that I'd choose to divorce.


I get that. What I don't get is that this is really a minor problem compared to the basic issue -- divorce or not.

He needs to contact the OM's wife one way or another and find out if in fact she did break up the affair. Then he needs to make a decision. Simply filing for a divorce will, as you know, likely bring other information out into the open.


----------



## tacoma

gizbug said:


> My question is, what do I do?


If you have no kids divorce her and move on.


----------



## GusPolinski

sidney2718 said:


> I get that. What I don't get is that this is really a minor problem compared to the basic issue -- divorce or not.


Depends on how "on the fence" he is. And either way, if it hadn't been important to him, he wouldn't have asked the question.



sidney2718 said:


> He needs to contact the OM's wife one way or another and find out if in fact she did break up the affair. Then he needs to make a decision. Simply filing for a divorce will, as you know, likely bring other information out into the open.


Agreed.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

sidney2718 said:


> I get that. What I don't get is that this is really a minor problem compared to the basic issue -- divorce or not.


No, it is minor to you, It isn't minor to them. You've been in many threads. For some people a kiss is enough to leave, while others can get over full blown sex. if that is his sticking point, she needs to fess up before he makes a decision.

You are trying to separate the two when, it may be a fundamental boundary he can't accept.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
I would like to suggest that when you and your WW attend counseling that you do not allow the counselor and/or your WW to try and subjugate the session and assign blame to you for your WW's behavior. Agree that there could be issues in the marriage that you will assume responsibility for but that you refuse to address them until after your WW's behavior has been fully acknowledged, understood for the heinous act it was and fully dealt with. Only then is any behavior on your part relevant, so discussing it prior to dealing with the issue at hand would be counterproductive. If there is no course of conversation whereby you can accept and understand your WW's behavior then improvement on your part is irrelevant since there will be no marriage wherein to better yourself.

Only after the A is fully dealt with, to the point that you even consider R, will other issues become of any significance.

Also, if you are even considering R, I ask you to understand that R is similar to the criminal justice system in that when a perpetrator is sentenced, there are a number of possible outcomes. The most desired result is for the criminal to have an epiphany, show complete and heartfelt remorse and understanding and become truly reformed. This outcome is extremely rare.

Another possibility is for the criminal to serve their jail time and to be so completely loathing of the entire experience, from being caught, to facing the humiliation, to actually going to prison, that they make a permanent decision to never have to deal with that again. This is the more prevalent form of "rehabilitation" and although the transformation was not driven by genuine remorse and empathy, it is, nonetheless, an effective deterrent to the deviant behavior.

And then there is the most prevalent outcome wherein no remorse is experienced and no transformation occurs. Any change in the behavior is merely demonstrated for the express purpose of gaining their freedom. Very soon thereafter their deviant behavior returns and although they may strive to be more covert, in the end, they are usually caught and found guilty again.

R follows this same pattern. I suggest diligence on your part to determine which, if any, is acceptable to you and which your WW is actually capable of. Beware the deceit and subterfuge during this process and try to be highly sensitive to it thereby securing a favorable outcome. I wish you good fortune.


----------



## gizbug

carmen ohio said:


> Dear gizbug,
> 
> For a number of reasons, I agree with those who have advised you to divorce your WW:
> 
> - You don't have children and therefore have no overarching reason to preserve your marriage.
> 
> - You're relatively young and have a good career, so you should have no problem finding a new and (hopefully) better mate.
> 
> - Your WW's behavior in all of this (long-term affair, going through the motions of working on her marriage while cheating behind your back, lying when confronted, deleting incriminating e-mails, etc.) makes her a poor candidate for reconciliation.
> 
> But the real reason I am posting on your thread is to discuss the issue that cgiles raised in post #5: the fact that you now have been cheated on by three different women.
> 
> cgiles sagely advised you to read NMMNG and I believe you have said you are reading it. Good. But you really need to get to the bottom of this problem because, clearly, something is amiss in your relationships with women. The fact that this has happened three times strongly suggests that it is not simply bad luck but rather that you are doing something wrong. Are you somehow inclined to choose untrustworthy partners, or doing something that causes your partners to believe they can get away with cheating on you, or possibly even creating a relationship dynamic that encourages them to look for sexual fulfillment with other men?
> 
> IMO, before making a decision to divorce or reconcile with your WW, you need at least begin to figure this out. Otherwise, you run the risk of a failed reconciliation, if you decide to give your WW a second chance, or, if you decide to divorce her, of suffering the same outcome with your next partner.
> 
> So, before you commit to anything long-term with your WW, do some serious introspection about your past relationships, talk to family members and close friends about what they have observed, and consider seeking professional help.
> 
> I believe you will be well rewarded if you do.



Well put and I am also working in myself during this process! Appreciate the post


----------



## gizbug

sidney2718 said:


> I get that. What I don't get is that this is really a minor problem compared to the basic issue -- divorce or not.
> 
> 
> 
> He needs to contact the OM's wife one way or another and find out if in fact she did break up the affair. Then he needs to make a decision. Simply filing for a divorce will, as you know, likely bring other information out into the open.



I'm in the process of contacting the OM as we speak. It's not a quick/easy/cheap process


----------



## happy as a clam

NoChoice said:


> Also, if you are even considering R, I ask you to understand that R is similar to the criminal justice system in that when a perpetrator is sentenced, there are a number of possible outcomes:
> 
> 
> The most desired result is for the criminal to have an epiphany, show complete and heartfelt remorse and understanding and become truly reformed. This outcome is extremely rare.
> 
> 
> Another possibility is for the criminal to serve their jail time and to be so completely loathing of the entire experience, from being caught, to facing the humiliation, to actually going to prison, that they make a permanent decision to never have to deal with that again. This is the more prevalent form of "rehabilitation" and although the transformation was not driven by genuine remorse and empathy, it is, nonetheless, an effective deterrent to the deviant behavior.
> 
> 
> And then there is the most prevalent outcome wherein no remorse is experienced and no transformation occurs. Any change in the behavior is merely demonstrated for the express purpose of gaining their freedom. Very soon thereafter their deviant behavior returns and although they may strive to be more covert, in the end, they are usually caught and found guilty again.
> 
> R follows this same pattern.


Excellent analogy. Should be a sticky for anyone considering R.


----------



## tom67

gizbug said:


> I'm in the process of contacting the OM as we speak. It's not a quick/easy/cheap process


I highly suggest you talk to his wife first not him.
He will tell his wife some crazy guy will be trying to contact her.
See where I am coming from?


----------



## BetrayedDad

tom67 said:


> I highly suggest you talk to his wife first not him.
> He will tell his wife some crazy guy will be trying to contact her.
> See where I am coming from?


I'm guessing it was a typo and he meant "OMW"...

Unless he wants to be told more fairytales, contacting OM would be a complete waste of time.


----------



## gizbug

BetrayedDad said:


> I'm guessing it was a typo and he meant "OMW"...
> 
> Unless he wants to be told more fairytales, contacting OM would be a complete waste of time.


I meant OMW, no real intention to talk to him


----------



## gizbug

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> I would like to suggest that when you and your WW attend counseling that you do not allow the counselor and/or your WW to try and subjugate the session and assign blame to you for your WW's behavior.


Other have said to kind of remain silent, and let her do the talking and see what is said and ask further questions if need be. But according to you, I should not do that (as they would be controling the discussion)? Do I go into this more as a listener, or as a talker?


----------



## gizbug

Nawlins said:


> Gizbug,
> A few things struck me from your posts. You WW did not seeing a therapist until the affair was over? Why? Was it because she missed the AP or because she regretted the affair and what she did to you?
> 
> Your WW then coerced you into MC and had you believing that something was wrong with your marriage, but she did this after having her affair. So now you are attending MC thinking your marriage is failing and what can you do to make it better when both the MC and your WW knew she had an affair; I’m assuming the MC is also you WW’s IC.
> 
> This is manipulative behavior on the part of one or both of them if the MC knew about the affair and it makes me question if attending MC is in your best interest if the MC knew. As far as you know, they have talked through these issues and are controlling where the MC goes.
> 
> If it were me I would ask the MC, in private, why your WW came to counseling, what have they talked about, how many times your WW and the AP had sex, etc., without giving any hints as to what you want to know or do know. This is an opportunity to see if the details match the timeline.
> 
> If the MC knew about the affair, and again if it were me, I would choose another MC. I don’t believe it’s ethical for an MC to counsel you when he/she knows the other side of the story and you are in the dark.
> 
> Your WW has deleted all the emails to the AP and told you they don’t matter anymore. They don’t matter to her because the affair is over due to her AP being caught. But they should matter to you because you don’t know what her feelings are/were for the AP and those emails open a window into their relationship.
> 
> Your WW doesn’t want you to speak with the OMW because “nothing positive will come of it.” This is not her choice. This is your opportunity to confirm your WW’s story. I read from another thread where the BH told his WW that they would call the OM/OMW together, at that moment, and ask the BH to recount the timeline his WW had given him. Guess what, the WW faltered and the BH knew the story was BS.
> 
> Tell your wife that you want her to call the OM with you present to hear the NC agreement and then start asking the OM to validate your WW’s timeline without telling him what your WW told you. See if the details match, but don’t tell your WW this is your intent with calling.
> 
> Just my two cents…


Reread this. The MC did not know about the affair (he does now as she emailed him, set the appointment up, and let him know prior to our visit today), her therapist knew. Two different people.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Giz, 

will you and your wife be speaking prior to the MC...if so i would tell her that once you go in there, if she start blaming any of this on you, you will walk out and serve her with divorce papers.....i would make it very clear that your not there to get emotional and psychological assaulted.


----------



## Chaparral

carmen ohio said:


> Dear gizbug,
> 
> For a number of reasons, I agree with those who have advised you to divorce your WW:
> 
> - You don't have children and therefore have no overarching reason to preserve your marriage.
> 
> - You're relatively young and have a good career, so you should have no problem finding a new and (hopefully) better mate.
> 
> - Your WW's behavior in all of this (long-term affair, going through the motions of working on her marriage while cheating behind your back, lying when confronted, deleting incriminating e-mails, etc.) makes her a poor candidate for reconciliation.
> 
> But the real reason I am posting on your thread is to discuss the issue that cgiles raised in post #5: the fact that you now have been cheated on by three different women.
> 
> cgiles sagely advised you to read NMMNG and I believe you have said you are reading it. Good. But you really need to get to the bottom of this problem because, clearly, something is amiss in your relationships with women. The fact that this has happened three times strongly suggests that it is not simply bad luck but rather that you are doing something wrong. Are you somehow inclined to choose untrustworthy partners, or doing something that causes your partners to believe they can get away with cheating on you, or possibly even creating a relationship dynamic that encourages them to look for sexual fulfillment with other men?
> 
> IMO, before making a decision to divorce or reconcile with your WW, you need at least begin to figure this out. Otherwise, you run the risk of a failed reconciliation, if you decide to give your WW a second chance, or, if you decide to divorce her, of suffering the same outcome with your next partner.
> 
> So, before you commit to anything long-term with your WW, do some serious introspection about your past relationships, talk to family members and close friends about what they have observed, and consider seeking professional help.
> 
> I believe you will be well rewarded if you do.


The odds of a man being cheated on 3 times is about 1 out of 9. I don't think it necessarily relates to his issues. In this case I think it has more to do with marrying someone who travels.


----------



## Dogbert

Chaparral said:


> The odds of a man being cheated on 3 times is about 1 out of 9. I don't think it necessarily relates to his issues. In this case I think it has more to do with marrying someone who travels.


Did the two previous women he was involved with traveled for work? 

You don't get struck by lightning *three times* through sheer dumb luck, you get struck by lightning *three times* by actively chasing it and acting like a lightning rod for it.


----------



## happyman64

gizbug said:


> Other have said to kind of remain silent, and let her do the talking and see what is said and ask further questions if need be. But according to you, I should not do that (as they would be controling the discussion)? Do I go into this more as a listener, or as a talker?


I suggest you mostly listen.

MC is great but I think this session is more for your wife to come clean about the affair since neither you nor the MC were aware of her affair.

Let her get it out there. In fact, invite her to. Let her know this session is for her to come clean in a safe environment.

Stay calm. Be cool and listen.

She still might hold things back. Encourage her to tell the truth. 

If the MC is worth his/her salt they will get her to open up.

You might be asked how you feel about her or the marriage; just be honest.

If they ask whether you are willing to R or not just be honest. You might not know what you want because you are still digesting all of these details.

Remember, time is on your side. Your wife has had a longer time to digest these facts and issues.

You might ask her towards the end of the session what she wants from you and the marriage? Or if she really wants to be married?

What I would want my wife to think about is this.

"Where is the woman I married? Honest, loving, monogamous, secure, faithful and respectful."

That is what I would want her to think about as well as what made her think an affair would be a good decision in her life.

I highly doubt she has those answers yet and her therapist is probably in progress but it is food for her to think about.

No matter what you walk into and out of that session with your head held high.

She might not be the woman you married but you certainly are the man she married. Think it and act it.

Because I think your wife needs it right now. Whether you want to give it to her or not. I think you do.....

HM


----------



## NoChoice

gizbug said:


> Other have said to kind of remain silent, and let her do the talking and see what is said and ask further questions if need be. But according to you, I should not do that (as they would be controling the discussion)? Do I go into this more as a listener, or as a talker?


OP,
You can certainly listen to your WW and the counselor discuss the issue but if they are assigning any portion of the blame to you then simply state that any suggestion outside of your WW accepting full responsibility for her actions will not be acknowledged by you.

If the counselor is conversing with your WW, addressing her A and dealing with it, fine, be a spectator but if the blame or any portion thereof is shifted towards you then speak out refusing to accept it.


----------



## sidney2718

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, it is minor to you, It isn't minor to them. You've been in many threads. For some people a kiss is enough to leave, while others can get over full blown sex. if that is his sticking point, she needs to fess up before he makes a decision.
> 
> You are trying to separate the two when, it may be a fundamental boundary he can't accept.


No no. The "minor" point was worrying about the OM and his wife having sex in the marital bedroom or someplace else. The geography doesn't matter much, the fact of the infidelity does.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
If your wife is truly sincere and wishes R above all else she will, with a heavy heart, be more than willing to be held accountable for her actions and the resultant consequences. Her behavior in your session today should give you a good indication of her true intent. If she indeed accepted the blame as all on her then that is a start. If she tried blameshifting and excuses, then you have your answer as to her sincerity. I hope all went as well as possible under the circumstances.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

sidney2718 said:


> No no. The "minor" point was worrying about the OM and his wife having sex in the marital bedroom or someplace else. The geography doesn't matter much, the fact of the infidelity does.


I know exactly what you meant. I am saying it isn't always minor. I'm saying for some people the infidelity is 50% and they can get over it with a ton of work. Where it happens can be 50% as well. Again the geography does matter to some posters. We have threads where R is going good and then "OMG my bed," "OMG Favorite car" "OMG honeymoon spot" and poof we are reading about them in the divorce section. 

We disagree and I'm not going to continue my threadjack with this point.


----------



## carmen ohio

Chaparral said:


> *The odds of a man being cheated on 3 times is about 1 out of 9.* I don't think it necessarily relates to his issues. In this case I think it has more to do with marrying someone who travels.


Sorry, Chaparral, as much as I respect you, I have to call you out on this one. Your statement above is just plain silly.

There are no _"odds of being cheated on."_ If it happens, it happens for a reason. Cheating is the result of decisions and actions: always, those of the WS and, sometimes, those over which the BS had a measure of control. But it is never just some random event.

When it happens to a person three times, it is only reasonable for that person to assume that he or she may be doing something wrong and to take stock.

Fortunately, the OP understands this.


----------



## Decorum

Gizbug, 

Did you ever address Chaps following questions?



Chaparral said:


> Why did she say the affair ended?
> 
> Did she ever say she suspected you of having an affair?


----------



## happyman64

How goes it Gizbug?


----------



## happy as a clam

Paging Gizbug. Are you still here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gizbug

I am still here. Thank you for asking 

So a quick update. Last Monday we went to our couples consoler and it went well, our next appointment is this Friday. We got a lot out of it and know it will be a new road in fixing this.
I called the PI off. The PI told me she thought it was morally wrong having me deliver a letter to the guys wife. She said she would make a special case to do it for me but in the past has not gone well (seen a woman try to kill herself, beat her kids or husband, destroy the house, etc.) I couldn't live with that and I think by delivering a letter it is more out of revenge. My std test came back negative. We spent last weekend talking, enjoying each other's company , and spending a TV day in bed. She vows never to hurt me like this again, and will do what ever it takes to prove that. Last week she surprised me on one of my airline overnights with a next day fedex package. Had a little book in it we use to write in, stories to the other person. This week she gave me 4 envelopes for each day of my trip to open. She also is doing more FaceTime video calls with me, we are having deeper conversations and she is outlining her day for me. She is looking for a new job and is willing to move/relocate out of our condo. She and I are reading to books our consoler suggested, surviving an affair and after the affair. Good reads . We have had sex and she has told me this is the husband she married and missed (more sexual, deeper conversations, acknologing her when I am with her, etc)

We still have a long road but we both want to work on fixing this and becoming stronger. I want to thank all the help I got here. I'll still be on the boards of other things pop up in our recovery. So I think I will close this thread now and take the knowledge I've learned and apply with fixing


----------



## happyman64

Gizbug

Good update but not great.

One reason why? You fail to grasp why you disclose the affair to the OMW.

You do it to hold him accountable for his infidelity. But you also do it to inform the OMW about an issue in her marriage.

Sure your wife is remorseful. But she did not have a one night stand. She and the OM deceived you and his wife for close to a year with sex games abroad and in your own home.

So I am happy for you that you are reconnecting.

But you should call the OM and let him know he has 24 hours to tell his wife before you contact her.

I would hate to see you back to square one in a few months.

You will learn it is all about the consequences and how we (you and your wife)stand up to them.

Revenge has nothing to do with it.

Good Luck

HM


----------



## aine

happyman64 said:


> Gizbug
> 
> Good update but not great.
> 
> One reason why? You fail to grasp why you disclose the affair to the OMW.
> 
> You do it to hold him accountable for his infidelity. But you also do it to inform the OMW about an issue in her marriage.
> 
> Sure your wife is remorseful. But she did not have a one night stand. She and the OM deceived you and his wife for close to a year with sex games abroad and in your own home.
> 
> So I am happy for you that you are reconnecting.
> 
> But you should call the OM and let him know he has 24 hours to tell his wife before you contact her.
> 
> I would hate to see you back to square one in a few months.
> 
> You will learn it is all about the consequences and how we (you and your wife)stand up to them.
> 
> Revenge has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> HM


I tend to agree. It is good that you are feeling better but I wonder how long this will actually last. it is akin to the hysterical bonding after D Day. When the reality of life sets in again, she has more or less got off fairly scot free and you are left with the hard work and seem to be allowing it to happen. Yes, you probably did drop the ball in your marriage by not giving her attention, etc but in now way does that justify a 10 month affair (not even a one night stand). if your wife is never to do this again, she must feel the pain now and do all the hard work. Further, it is not fair on the OMW that she is completely in the dark over something so serious. After 10 months your W has definitely an emotional connection to OM. Although that is not your problem, making sure they never hook up again is. If he is busy trying to salvage his marriage, part of your problem is solved. To be very frank you are way too nice and this is likely to happen again imo. Nevertheless I wish you all the best and hope that it does work out for you.


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## gizbug

The OMW intercepted an email from my wife to her husband and emailed my wife to stop contact. This was last November. Then shorty after the no contact letter was sent to my wife. I am open to revisiting pursuing the OMW down the road but the PI AND CONSOLUR both did not advise that right now

My wife does have hard work to do. She repeatedly tells me she is very sorry she hurt me this bad and affected our marriage. From what I gathered the OM is/was working on salvaging his marriage. There has been no contact (she went into the office once this past week, felt a lot of anxiety) and told me he was not there (as he tends to work remote) she is actively looking for a new place to work. My wife knows she ****ed up, how bad this hurts both of us, has admited to that, and we are both working on it. To think I'm letting her off easy, I would disagree. There are still talks and feelings I have where I am deeply hurt. She listens and understands, and promises it will get better in time and she has to work extra hard to ensure that.


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## anchorwatch

gizbug said:


> The OMW intercepted an email from my wife to her husband and emailed my wife to stop contact. This was last November. Then shorty after the no contact letter was sent to my wife. I am open to revisiting pursuing the OMW down the road but the PI AND CONSOLUR both did not advise that right now


Then it's your position she knows? 

I'm not saying your wrong. You've allowed yourself to be misled in the past. Eyes open, gizbug. 

By all means stick around...

Wishing you good luck in your recovery.


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## happyman64

gizbug said:


> The OMW intercepted an email from my wife to her husband and emailed my wife to stop contact. This was last November. Then shorty after the no contact letter was sent to my wife. I am open to revisiting pursuing the OMW down the road but the PI AND CONSOLUR both did not advise that right now


Gotcha. Now I understand. So his wife knows.

Was that the reason why your wife stopped the affair?.

Again Gizbug. I am pro marriage. I think R is great. But it is also the tougher road travelled.

The key is to be brutally honest with your spouse. Brutally. She needs to learn to respect you again not only as her husband but as a man.

And consequences are for her to learn to respect herself.......

Keep moving forward and safe flying!

Keep us posted on how you two are doing.

HM


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## gizbug

happyman64 said:


> Gotcha. Now I understand. So his wife knows.
> 
> 
> 
> Was that the reason why your wife stopped the affair?.
> 
> 
> 
> Again Gizbug. I am pro marriage. I think R is great. But it is also the tougher road travelled.
> 
> 
> 
> The key is to be brutally honest with your spouse. Brutally. She needs to learn to respect you again not only as her husband but as a man.
> 
> 
> 
> And consequences are for her to learn to respect herself.......
> 
> 
> 
> Keep moving forward and safe flying!
> 
> 
> 
> Keep us posted on how you two are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> HM



Still flying. Going from LGA to Bangor Maine now for 15 hours. Wife and I are going to FL for 2 days this weekend. No phone, just us to get away, travel, and talk and reconnect


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## G.J.

Hopefully you got a full time line from her now

Did she pursue him ?
Did she finish it or did he ?
Did you get all the times they met and where ?


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## lewmin

I haven't contributed in quite some time, but felt compelled to here. Even though we are in a pretty good place now, three years ago, my wife was in a 9-10 month affair with a coworker (just like you), our house was used sometimes as a place to get together (just like you), and when I found out I did not go immediately to the OMW, because according to my wife, the OMW already knew. 

Well luckily I came here. This was just a way for my wife to further protect herself and to protect the other man from more damage. When the OMW offically found out from me, she almost went into shock.

If your knowledge that the OMW knows is based strictly on what your wife tells you, then this could be a fallacy. 

The PI and counselor, in my opinion, are completely off-base here. Sure something can happen...that has nothing to do with you at all ...its all on the affair partners.

One of the main reasons you confirm (and most importantly do not tell your wife of these plans) is that you now know there is a second set of eyes watching this. After your wife lied to you for 10months, so you can not be sure that you are getting the whole truth now.

good luck to you.


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## happyman64

Ahh Lewmin so good of you to chime in.

While gizbug is rekindling the marriage hopefully he will take our comments to heed regarding the exposure.

Just to put his mind at ease. I understand the PI and counselors view. Well not the PI's but the counselor.

But ultimately I would make contact just to establish the NC is in fact working and if a breach occurs for the OMW to contact gizbug.

I hope he does it and never tells his wife he did it.

Time will tell.....

HM


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## 10th Engineer Harrison

gizbug said:


> She and I are reading to books our consoler suggested, surviving an affair and after the affair. Good reads . We have had sex and she has told me this is the husband she married and missed (more sexual, deeper conversations, acknologing her when I am with her, etc)


I never read After the Affair but I do have a copy of SAA. I will burn it when I find it again. Why? you might ask?

The methods behind SAA are all about meeting one anothers' so-called "emotional needs" as if the BS is partially responsible for the WS getting these needs met elsewhere. They're also about getting the romance back and making it last the rest of your lives, which requires that you accept responsibility for making your spouse love you. Don't laugh, I coached with the authors of that book and that is what they told me.

I much prefer the late Frank Pittman's straight talk:



> "Marriage is the promise - not the emotions, not even the relationship, but the commitment. To be worth anything more than vacation together, a boarding arrangement, or a temporary job, a marital promise must be made to withstand and weather all human emotions, and inhuman ones as well."
> 
> "Marriage is not supposed to make you happy. It is supposed to make you married, and once you are safely and totally married, then you have a structure of security and support from which you are free to make yourself happy, rather than wasting your adulthood looking for a structure."


-10th Engineer Harrison


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## Decorum

happyman64 said:


> Was that the reason why your wife stopped the affair?.
> 
> 
> 
> HM


I think this is his answer.



gizbug said:


> The OMW intercepted an email from my wife to her husband and emailed my wife to stop contact. This was last November. Then shorty after the no contact letter was sent to my wife.


The OMW busted them.


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## South Stand

I would agree with Cgiles and that you refer to the link that was shared. In particular the part about triggers and remorse. As someone who is working on R for the 2nd time now, I wish I had found this after the first DD. I think it would have prevented me from the 2nd DD. I found the things in these parts of the threads extremely helpful as gut checks. Ask yourself if her behavior illustrates remorse and/or how she deals with things if you there is a trigger or when the subject is discussed. If your honest with yourself about these I think you will know what to do.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Decorum said:


> I think this is his answer.
> 
> 
> 
> *The OMW busted them*.


Did he verified this? NO so how can he believe this? I think this guy is rug sweeping and in cloud nine that his wife says sorry, reads SAA and giving him surprise gifts.

But, What are the consequences for her A?


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## Decorum

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Did he verified this? NO so how can he believe this? I think this guy is rug sweeping and in cloud nine that his wife says sorry, reads SAA and giving him surprise gifts.
> 
> But, What are the consequences for her A?


KP This may all be true, meaning that exposure has not happened, the affair is not over and he continue to spare her the consequences that could change her brain.

Let me point this out also... if true it means she would still be cheating today if not discovered. That's the worst case scenario for gizbug, which explains why the remorse is low in this one, she just ramped up the High School romance level of the relationship and all is good.


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## Steve1000

Gizbug, You will receive a lot of good advice, but you just found out and are too devastated to really make any good decisions. Whether you fully reconcile or not will depend more on how you feel a year from now. If you make a lot of mistakes during the next few weeks, don't stress over it because most of us wish we could redo our initial reaction. For now, my best advice is to accept that you will have a lot of pain and sleepless nights for awhile, and to get out and exercise as soon as possible. It helps with stress and with self-esteem.


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## happyman64

Decorum said:


> KP This may all be true, meaning that exposure has not happened, the affair is not over and he continue to spare her the consequences that could change her brain.
> 
> Let me point this out also... if true it means she would still be cheating today if not discovered. That's the worst case scenario for gizbug, which explains why the remorse is low in this one, she just ramped up the High School romance level of the relationship and all is good.


That is my concern Decorum.

Did the exposure end the affair or did his wife one day realize she is screwing up her marriage and life.

Many a Wayward get caught, go deep and resume the affair months later. Or start a new affair.


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## Roselyn

Only three years married and your wife already had an affair. You and your wife are in your late 30s. Both of you should be wiser by now. Your wife cannot use an excuse of you, not giving her attention.

Woman here, career woman, ongoing 35 years married, and 57 years old. Your wife would have continued her affair if the OMW did not discover their affair. Your wife is very skillful in leading you to believe that she wants to "fix" your marriage by suggesting marriage counseling before her affair blows up in her face.

Discover the truth about this affair. Your PI and marriage counselor are both morons. I am a university professor and works in the Department of Family & Consumer Scieces with colleagues in the marriage and family counseling area. They would tell you that in order to heal a relationship, you must disclose everything so that the major surgery can be done. You are at this time, applying a Band-Aid to your wound.

Your wife is romancing you to pacify your mind. Do not rugswept this affair. Women can use sexual charms to manipulate you. In this case, I believe your wife is using her charms. If I am the betting kind, your wife will do this again as you are too early on in your marriage for this kind of behavior.

See a psychologist to set your mind in the right track. Your decision to stay in this marriage...


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## adriana

:iagree: I agree with Roselyn.... it is only a matter of time before she cheats again.


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## BookOfJob

gizbug said:


> ...We don't fight much at all....


This above.

Guiding a big ship like a marriage, requires constant tending. Therefore, I think disagreements will have to exist. Are you letting her get away with some things? If not, is she a perfect wife? I doubt it. Then you have to express your opinion on things that require some "course corrections".

I see that you are reading NMMNG book. That's good.

One of the things suggested in every "man up" effort, is the ability to have conflict calmly. Lack of fighting in your household, is it because you tend to avoid conflict? If it is, then look inside you, find it, and fix it. Be a better man, for yourself, then maybe for your wife too.


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## Graywolf2

gizbug said:


> My wife does have hard work to do. She repeatedly tells me she is very sorry she hurt me this bad and affected our marriage. From what I gathered the OM is/was working on salvaging his marriage. There has been no contact
> 
> (she went into the office once this past week, felt a lot of anxiety) and told me he was not there (as he tends to work remote) she is actively looking for a new place to work. My wife knows she ****ed up, how bad this hurts both of us, has admited to that, and we are both working on it.
> 
> To think I'm letting her off easy, I would disagree. There are still talks and feelings I have where I am deeply hurt. She listens and understands, and promises it will get better in time and she has to work extra hard to ensure that.


*How about replaceing your wife with a bank president that embezzled?

The bank president does have hard work to do. He repeatedly tells me he is very sorry about the money he embezzled. From what I gathered his accomplice is working on a plea bargain to avoid jail time. There has been no additional embezzlement. 

The bank president went into the office once this past week, felt a lot of anxiety and is actively looking for a new place to work. He knows he ****ed up, how bad this hurts the shareholders that trusted him, has admitted to that, and is working on it. 

To those who think he’s getting off easy, I would disagree. There are still talks and feelings where those that trusted him with their money are deeply hurt. He listens and understands, and promises it will get better in time and he has to work extra hard to ensure that. *


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## happy as a clam

I fear that Gizbug is... zoom ZOOM... GONE!!!!



And I honestly don't think he is going to listen to any further advice, as he seems to have already made up his mind to rugsweep the whole tawdry affair . She obviously said all the right things.

My prediction is that he will be back in a year or two.


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## happyman64

Naaaa

I think Gizbug is testing his toes in the water and trying to gauge how remorseful his wife truly is.

I also think he is looking to see how committed she is to the marriage and how committed he is to forgiveness.

They both work. They both travel for work.

So it is not like they have been around each other that much lately.

I'm sure he will come back and update when he has something to update....

HM


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