# Wife suggested I start seeing other people



## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

This was the bomb that dropped on my last night. Background - married for almost 8 years. About 4 years ago we went through a rocky period (no cheating) but it was a real rough patch. Somehow we got through it and things improved. I thought that in the last year things were really great.

But she said she has to psych herself up for sex because she loves me is not in love with me (I don't think there's cheating on her side). She said she likes living with me and working with me and enjoys all the things we do and even looks forward to future plans but thinks it's unfair to me to wait 2 months for sex. I told her I'm not concerned about the amount, that I'm fine. I want to help her.

Then she went into a soul searching story about feeling behind other people our age when it comes to career, that she hasn't really done anything with her life (she's a stay at home mom who works full time). She feels bad that the housework doesn't get done, we have a 7 year old who takes up tons of energy. Then she said maybe she just needs a break and needs to talk to some of her female friends and see what they say.

I had to apologize for the things that happened 4 years ago (again) but it seems like she is stuck in a rut. Later last night she gave me a long, very long hug. Much longer than normal and said she was sorry.

I love her dearly and want it to work, and for the last 2-3 years I felt things have been working fine (as well as things can work in any marriage). I just need to vent, to get some opinions because this is now all I can think about and I really have no one to talk to about this. So, beginning of the end, or can we be saved? I think she knows a divo would be devastating, especially to our child but she's definitely in a personal crisis. What can I do? Thanks....this is a great forum. Very helpful people.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You didn't mention about the seeing other people part. Does she want an open marriage?

She is most likely having an affair. The request for an open marriage is a textbook cheater's way of off-loading guilt and legitemizing their behavior. 

She's been lying to you. She is most likely seeing another man on the side. Once a person has a full on sexual affair going they have little sexual desire left over for their spouse. That's why you're not getting any. 

Start snooping. Dig into her emails, check her phone texts and watch for all the suspicious behaviors that cheaters engage in. Read the pletora of threads on this site about infidelity and you will get a good idea of what you are dealing with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

There could be another man. In my situation, I heard similar things after an EA that lasted 4 weeks. Things like, "I've been miserable for a long time, and you deserve someone who will truly love you and be happy with you." Or, "how can you love me who has grown apart from you and has done a horrible thing." Or, "I wish you would just move on and find someone who will love you."

Now, these statements were made in a highly emotional conversation, but you get the idea.

Look up Walk-Away-Wife Syndrome (WAW). It resonated with me. My wife built up a wall, shut down and detached for a few years out of several reasons (needs not being met, doubts, etc.). I wish she would have communicated all of this to me, but....

Once the WAW finally is ready to leave (mine stayed for so long out of guilt, obligation, love), she is READY. It takes an act of God to turn things around.

Any begging, pleading, promising falls on deaf ears and pushes her farther away faster. Same with emotional breakdowns. Same with using your child as an excuse to stay. It just strengthens her resolve.

I'm in the middle of this situation and it is unfair, baffling, frustrating, and deeply upsetting. Look at doing the 180 (look for details of 180 on this site) in order to help you. YOU are the only person you can control. How you act. How you respond.

I guess there's always hope, but, it is very rare. Maybe you are in a better position because at least you still live with your wife. My wife and I separated, then I escalated things and filed for divorce, and recently had second thoughts and want reconciliation. So, my situation is the "last thread."

I wish you the best. It'll be a rough ride. This site is extremely helpful. Members here can give you all sorts of advice and information.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. I've read plenty about cheating and the signs just aren't there. It's more like WAW. Everything has just felt so good the last 3 years, which is why yesterday was such a bombshell. I can't eat, could barely sleep and this is all I can think about.

I feel that if we did split it would be amicable, yet devastating to the family, which is why she hasn't come right out and said that's what she wants. I honestly think that she's at a point where she doesn't know what to do. 

We had a good morning today though. Smiled at each other, both made a few jokes, shared some genuine laughs and shared a deep loving hug. The friendship is there, the respect is there but now there's this awkward wedge. I'm trying to act strong, to be the same genuine, loving person I have been the last 3 years yet I'm not sure what else to do. One day at a time I guess.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I understand that you wish to believe that your wife isn't cheating but at the very least you should be ruling it out through some furtive investigation. You say that there is no signs but asking for an open marriage _is_ a sign that she's at least thinking of it. She might be trolling online or engaged in an EA that might go PA soon.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

I guess I can't rule it out 100%. What does EA and PA stand for? I'm new here and not up to date on all the acronyms!


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

click the newbie link in my signature and you will find a list of acronyms and term definitions

PA- physical affair
EA- emotional affair


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

at the very least you should get a keylogger on her computer/laptop


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

btw- the reason we say to rule it out is that if she is cheating that you will only spin your wheels trying to fix something that can't be fixed while one partner is knee deep in lala land of an affair. If it turns out she isn't cheating then you can start making more productive steps towards fixing the marriage

I do recommend you read Married man's Sex Life by Kay Athol


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

It's definitely past time to discreetly start the investagatory process. After all, "where there's smoke, there's often fire."


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I have never heard of a single instance of a wife telling her husband to see other women, when the wife her self wasn't already going down that path.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I would say that she has her eyes on someone else...at least that much.

Why should she talk to her friends? That's bizarre.

And a 7 year old can HELP with the chores...so I don't understand that either.

Sounds like a MLC (mid life crisis) and an affair all in one.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She doesn't get the housework done because while she should be home cleaning and the child is in school, she's out with some guy.

that's just where my brain went.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Arguing, bickering, make-up sex, complaining and so on are all part of a normal "engaged" marriage. The last three years of bliss and peace were actually your wife emotionally disengaging from the relationship. Both walkaways and cheaters do this. 

I'm afraid the last three years of your life have been a sham my friend. You've been played.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Arguing, bickering, make-up sex, complaining and so on are all part of a normal "engaged" marriage. *The last three years of bliss and peace were actually your wife emotionally disengaging from the relationship. Both walkaways and cheaters do this*.
> 
> I'm afraid the last three years of your life have been a sham my friend. You've been played.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


hmmmm. I never thought about this. While I wouldn't categorize our last 2 years like this, it was, for the most part, peaceful. No arguments, no worries, no strain...Just doing the normal, everyday life routine. Everything seemed so, normal.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Sure, there's a possibility of a PA or EA but until I know more, I can't say either way. Anything else is just speculation. 

It is definitely a MLC at work, maybe more, maybe not. Right now I'm just very numb about the whole thing. Everything is very blurry. My mind is going 10 different directions and I have no idea what to think.

She also mentioned that there is no "warm fuzzy" feeling anymore. I'm interested in making the productive steps to fix things but I guess I need to do some homework first, and confirm there is no EA or PA. 

One thing I do know for certin: this sucks


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Seeing other people isn't likely to fix the issues between your wife and yourself. What it's likely to do is drive a larger wedge between you. If she's having MLC issues, she needs to consider how she wants to deal with them. IC, self help, whatever. But sticking her head in the sand and hoping things will be fine is just not going to work. You might as well separate now while you can still be amicable, as that's likely to be much better for your son than if you wait till you're at each other's throats.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> Sure, there's a possibility of a PA or EA but until I know more, I can't say either way. Anything else is just speculation.
> 
> It is definitely a MLC at work, maybe more, maybe not. Right now I'm just very numb about the whole thing. Everything is very blurry. My mind is going 10 different directions and I have no idea what to think.
> 
> ...


Yes, unfortunately. I went through this last summer. My advice would be to keep reading posts here (I just found TAM last month). Act and react with your emotions under control. Don't make big decisions unless you are fully prepared. Follow the 180 - be good to yourself. Take care of yourself.

You will make it through. I don't know how I make it day to day, but I'm still here.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Jayb said:


> Yes, unfortunately. I went through this last summer. My advice would be to keep reading posts here (I just found TAM last month). Act and react with your emotions under control. Don't make big decisions unless you are fully prepared. Follow the 180 - be good to yourself. Take care of yourself.
> 
> You will make it through. I don't know how I make it day to day, but I'm still here.



Thank you. This is super encouraging. Where can I find info on the 180 that people keep talking about? I did a google and got all kinds of responses. Which is the system that has worked for you??


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jayb said:


> hmmmm. I never thought about this. While I wouldn't categorize our last 2 years like this, it was, for the most part, peaceful. No arguments, no worries, no strain...Just doing the normal, everyday life routine. Everything seemed so, normal.


Us guys interpret this as smooth sailing. However, it appears that this occurs when the woman is done and as Bandit states disengaing. This is very consistent with what you are seeing.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Us guys interpret this as smooth sailing. However, it appears that this occurs when the woman is done and as Bandit states disengaing. This is very consistent with what you are seeing.


Playing archair quarterback here, but..


I wonder if I had approached her anytime in that phase and asked for a status report of our marriage. You know, had a heart-to heart. I wonder if she would express her unhappiness. Right now, I don't think she would have. She would have expressed love for me and satisfaction. Not great, not the worst. In other words, I think she would have denied or covered up her true feelings/disengagement.

But, at this point, I could see her also confessing and wanting to rectify our marriage.

Interesting...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Us guys interpret this as smooth sailing. However, it appears that this occurs when the woman is done and as Bandit states disengaing. This is very consistent with what you are seeing.


But why does it have to be bickering and fighting? Hubs and I don't fight or bicker, but we're engaged in our relationship. EA/PAs can happen quickly...so with the OP, who can say what was going on for 3 years :scratchhead: I dunno...


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

that_girl said:


> But why does it have to be bickering and fighting? Hubs and I don't fight or bicker, but we're *engaged in our relationship*. EA/PAs can happen quickly...so with the OP, who can say what was going on for 3 years :scratchhead: I dunno...


In my situation during that time, neither of us were engaged with each other in the marriage. So, it was smooth sailing insofar that the majority of our interaction was focused around the children and/or family, but limited between us.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Jayb said:


> hmmmm. I never thought about this. While I wouldn't categorize our last 2 years like this, it was, for the most part, peaceful. No arguments, no worries, no strain...Just doing the normal, everyday life routine. Everything seemed so, normal.


Same here, Jayb! Other than for one minor meltdown on her part about something of a relatively minor nature, nothing was ever said, one way or the other! I truly feel that the "meltdown" was more perceived than anything else, and was used by her to help create an emotional chasm between us!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

In this case however, the disengagement was all on her side. She did nothing to try to address her issues or save her feelings towards the OP. That's heinous and cruel on her part, and he needs to confront her on this.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

So I'm about 6 hours into the "day after" and feel physically weak, emotionally confused, and tired with no appetite. I looked into the 180 and found a few things that I know will work FOR ME. I'm slowly coming to terms with this possibily being the beginning of the end but I want to work hard to save this thing. I'm not going to give up. She is my best friend. The #1 person in my life and I realize the mistakes of my past are the biggets mistakes of my life. I will want to talk to a professional but I know she is not ready or willing to do that. Has anyone ever done any type of marriage counseling or therapy without their spouse? Can it work?


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

If a woman is pushes for an open marriage, she almost always has someone specific in mind she wants to be with. Your wife is already having an emotional affair and is looking for permission to make it physical. The clincher is the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" bit. That is a load of codswallop.

Either squelch the emotional affair and seek reconciliation (assuming she feels actual remorse) or your marriage is over.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

that_girl said:


> But why does it have to be bickering and fighting? Hubs and I don't fight or bicker, but we're engaged in our relationship. EA/PAs can happen quickly...so with the OP, who can say what was going on for 3 years :scratchhead: I dunno...


Every marriage is different , but are you _sure_ your marriage is healthy? Are you saying you and Hubs never have the day to day disagreements and occasional arguments? 

Up until January 23, I thought my marriage was peachy, and my wife showed no signs whatsoever of an affair, but that was because she is a consumate actress. We hardly ever argued or fought.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> So I'm about 6 hours into the "day after" and feel physically weak, emotionally confused, and tired with no appetite. I looked into the 180 and found a few things that I know will work FOR ME. I'm slowly coming to terms with this possibily being the beginning of the end but I want to work hard to save this thing. I'm not going to give up. She is my best friend. The #1 person in my life and I realize the mistakes of my past are the biggets mistakes of my life. I will want to talk to a professional but I know she is not ready or willing to do that. Has anyone ever done any type of marriage counseling or therapy without their spouse? Can it work?


You and her are each 50% to blame for where you are now in your marriage. Do not let her put everything on you!

If she is having an EA or PA, that is 100% hers to own. There is never a good or justified reason for cheating on a spouse...never!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MMM5000 said:


> So I'm about 6 hours into the "day after" and feel physically weak, emotionally confused, and tired with no appetite. I looked into the 180 and found a few things that I know will work FOR ME. I'm slowly coming to terms with this possibily being the beginning of the end but I want to work hard to save this thing. I'm not going to give up. She is my best friend. The #1 person in my life and I realize the mistakes of my past are the biggets mistakes of my life. I will want to talk to a professional but I know she is not ready or willing to do that. Has anyone ever done any type of marriage counseling or therapy without their spouse? Can it work?


I haven't read all the responses, so if I repeat someone's advice I do apologize.

I'm one of those people that are suspicious/leery of a spouse who claims to be unhappy in a marriage that is UNWILLING to go to MC. IMO, if you aren't planning on stringing me along for some other diabolical plan for yourself, you'll go to try and make things work. Not saying that MC always works out like you plan, but to not even consider it as a source of help? Something else is up.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MMM5000 said:


> But she said she has to psych herself up for sex because she loves me is not in love with me (I don't think there's cheating on her side). She said she likes living with me and working with me and enjoys all the things we do and even looks forward to future plans but thinks it's unfair to me to wait 2 months for sex. I told her I'm not concerned about the amount, that I'm fine. I want to help her.
> 
> Then she went into a soul searching story about feeling behind other people our age when it comes to career, that she hasn't really done anything with her life (she's a stay at home mom who works full time). She feels bad that the housework doesn't get done, we have a 7 year old who takes up tons of energy. Then she said maybe she just needs a break and needs to talk to some of her female friends and see what they say.
> 
> ...


Something (maybe a hormonal fluctuation) triggered her crisis in confidence. Unfortunately, when she reached out, something (other than you) got her attention. It could be another guy, friends, family, coworkers or any of the tons of messages women get everyday devaluing their husband and their marriage and telling them that they will achieve happiness and satisfaction in this life by being independent and acquiring more material goods.

Of course you can be saved if that is your decision. Your wife is reaching out for personal validation and a sense of self worth. You need to provide this for her along with unconditional love and consistent affirmation. 

She also needs protection as does your marriage. You need to know who her friends are and what they are telling her. Show and interest in them and engage her regarding them. Ditto for coworkers. I also recommend looking at text messages, phone records, email and other electronic communication. When I did this I found how my wife was being influenced by outsiders and I had to take strong action to get between them.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Of course you can be saved if that is your decision. Your wife is reaching out for personal validation and a sense of self worth. You need to provide this for her along with unconditional love and consistent affirmation.
> 
> She also needs protection as does your marriage. You need to know who her friends are and what they are telling her. Show and interest in them and engage her regarding them. Ditto for coworkers. I also recommend looking at text messages, phone records, email and other electronic communication. When I did this I found how my wife was being influenced by outsiders and I had to take strong action to get between them.



Yes, she is definitely dealing with issues of self worth, and has for as long as I have known her. She works part time but is almost 100% reliant on me financially. She hates that I pay her student loan bills but I tell her again and again that it is no problem - we can afford it! She said last night that she is tired of being so dependent and feels like she's behind the rest of her friends. I suggested getting a full time job and using the income to pay for daycare for our 7 year old. It's not a good time though, summer is coming up, etc...she's really hard on herself. I think she's worried that she's locked in an unhappy situation and might be looking outside for something else....


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> Yes, she is definitely dealing with issues of self worth, and has for as long as I have known her. She works part time but is almost 100% reliant on me financially. She hates that I pay her student loan bills but I tell her again and again that it is no problem - we can afford it! She said last night that she is tired of being so dependent and feels like she's behind the rest of her friends. I suggested getting a full time job and using the income to pay for daycare for our 7 year old. It's not a good time though, summer is coming up, etc...she's really hard on herself. I think she's worried that she's locked in an unhappy situation and might be looking outside for something else....


Read CanGuy's threads. He went through the same thing you are going through with your wife. See if there are any parallels.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...-did-take-you-move-after-your-separation.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/39232-one-new-story-after-another.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...6691-wife-wants-separate-i-am-devastated.html


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

There are definitely some parallels there. Looks like I have a very tough road ahead of me!!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Also look for the mistakes he made. Make sure you don't make the same.

Generally, once a walkaway spouse makes the decision to detach emotionally, and then finally does so, there is usually little you can do about it except pray for a miracle.ray:


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Well last night (the first night after hearing THE NEWS) was fairly pleasant. After a terrible day of emotional torture, no food and no sleep, I came home to a fairly "normal" vibe. My appetite returned as soon as I saw my 7 year old. For the most part the night was normal, except for some awkwardness, mostly from me not quite being sure how to act. I can tell we're in a holding pattern now. Not sure how long it will last. The last one lasted about 4 years...I have a feeling this one will be shorter.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

it will be shorter because you're going to be proactive

1) investigate (spy to see if she is cheating)
2) learn (read books like MMSL)
3) make firm and planned actions based on the facts


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Yes, right now I am coping by taking care of myself. Continue to eat well, get exercise. I have an old project that I can resurrect, have plans with friends, am focusing more quality time on our 7 year old. Focusing on work when I'm at work (excpet for right now, harhar)...

What is MMSL? I could use a good book on how to deal with this.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Married Man's Sex Life by Kay Athol


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Looks intersting. Not sure if we're at that point but I don't see how reading the book would hurt. 

What about those Divorce Busting books by Michele Weiner-Davis? Do those help? Are they worth a read?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You also very much need to go into serious investigation mode to find out who it is that she has in mind for herself!


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm doing that Shaggy, little by little.


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## Speed (Dec 9, 2011)

Why are you so scared to investigate? Are you afraid of what you might find? If there is nothing, great. But if you do find something then it will explain her current behavior.


It amazes me when the answers could be sitting on the table in front of them, in a range of electronic devices, yet they won't look.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

MMM5000 said:


> Looks intersting. Not sure if we're at that point but I don't see how reading the book would hurt.
> 
> What about those Divorce Busting books by Michele Weiner-Davis? Do those help? Are they worth a read?


I have no experience knowledge of that book

but I also recommend His Needs Her Needs

You may not think MMSL is imprtant right now but it's a good way to recognize what behavior (most) women find attractive and what can help spark your sex life


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

MMM5000 said:


> I'm doing that Shaggy, little by little.


explain more please

what are you using?

at the very least a keylogger and inspect the phone records and retrieve text messages if possible


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Speed said:


> Why are you so scared to investigate? Are you afraid of what you might find? If there is nothing, great. But if you do find something then it will explain her current behavior.
> 
> 
> It amazes me when the answers could be sitting on the table in front of them, in a range of electronic devices, yet they won't look.


I'm not scared. I said in my post that I'm doing it. Phone records and text messages. Haven't found anything out of the ordinary yet.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm going to approach this from another angle.

Twice now you've mentioned that she is comparing her life with the lives of her "friends". A womans "friends" are Kryptonite to a marriage. It's like facebook mixed with online gaming. You see..sometimes there is this one catty one in the bunch that is miserable and just wants everybody to be miserable with her. So she feeds her a bunch of BS that makes her question everything. Her career, her parenting, her relationships...EVERYTHING.

You might want to reflect on that and make sure there is no saboteur in her group of friends..otherwise as previously stated, you'll be spinning your wheels trying to fix this while somebody is working on the opposite end trying to break it.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Well one of her friends is recently divorced but the other is recently married. So yeah, the odds are stacked against me.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MMM5000 said:


> Well one of her friends is recently divorced


That can do it. There is so much anti-marriage, anti-man, anti-family stuff out there for women to catch on to that a low self esteem, low self confidence female can easily feel validated through breaking away from her marriage/husband/family to pursue the holy grail of selfishness. Especially if her husband has been distracted for a while and is not making her feel validated through him


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

So what can I do? Other than take care of myself? 

Can I win her back? Is it possible?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Become the man you want to be. Be the man you think you need to be. Show her what she'd be leaving. But do it for you.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

MMM5000 said:


> So what can I do? Other than take care of myself?
> 
> Can I win her back? Is it possible?


Ignoring spouses who make crazyassed statements DOES WORK.

NOT giving them the reaction they expect is rewarding for you. Take care of yourself. Be less available to her and her needs. She'll become curious...

That's what you want. A more balanced focus. Not just on ONE of you, but focus on both of you. You matter too!!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> So what can I do? Other than take care of myself?
> 
> Can I win her back? Is it possible?


Like That_Girl said:

Do the 180, improve and work on yourself to be a stronger more independent person. Let her see you becoming an attractive, desirable man, and she might have second thoughts.

But like I said before, if she has checked out, which I suspect she has, there is not much you can do but go your own way.

Heres the link to the 180: http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1302891381/The+180


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Quite honestly, any woman who says to her husband that he can see other women are DONE with the marriage....probably because she has another option.

I mean, even if I had no libido, the idea of my husband seeing another woman is NOT an option for me...unless I was done.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Yep, bandit. I'm going to do exactly that.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Quite honestly, any woman who says to her husband that he can see other women are DONE with the marriage....probably because she has another option.
> 
> I mean, even if I had no libido, the idea of my husband seeing another woman is NOT an option for me...unless I was done.


:iagree:

You say something like that it's because you don't care anymore.

The idea... the mere idea of another woman 'seeing' my husband makes me


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

When you do it, don't be a jerk. Just be a good man...and be your own man. Don't really pay her any mind.

Do yu have a hobby?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

And keep in mind the 180 is intended to help YOU move to a place where you're ok with things being over. It's not intended as a way to change your partner's mind, even though it sometimes has that effect. But if you do it to change her mind, you're just going through the motions of it.

My wife has pulled a very solid "180" on me since we separated last February. All it's done is made my life easier, and the separation easier on me.

C


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

that_girl said:


> When you do it, don't be a jerk. Just be a good man...and be your own man. Don't really pay her any mind.
> 
> Do yu have a hobby?


I do. A couple of them that have been sitting on hold for a few months. I plan to resurrect one of them tonight. 

I guess I want two things: I want to try and save the marriage but I also want to get to a place where I'm ok if we decide to part.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Then the 180 is the best bet.

Smile and be pleasant, but don't be clingy or affectionate.

Be a good man, but show her what she'd be missing.

Get into your hobby and have fun!!


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> Thanks for the responses. I've read plenty about cheating and the signs just aren't there.


The signs are there, you listed two of them right in your post.

Lack of sex and the suggestion to see (and screw) other people.

Know this:

Most cheaters vehomently deny cheating when confronted.

Many if not most betrayed partners are unaware of the cheating behavior of their deceptive partner and are in denial about it.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Went through something similar in my marriage. As Entropy said, as men we intrepret the "smooth sailing" as good. The truth is, two people that are close are bound to have disagreements and ebbs and flows. Women are intensely attracted to men with strong drive and goals and dreams and what not. If they see their man living in the "status quo", they start to get edgy. That's just from my personal experience and what I've witnessed.

From what you have mentioned, my take on it is that she has been slowly disengaging over the last few years, and that her recent comments are coming out because she has her eye on someone else.

As a man who went through something similar, I can only tell you what I wish I had done.

For starters, I, like you, was in denial that anything was going on until I had the proof to back it up. All the signs of the starting of an affair are there. Do not ignore them. She is walking and quacking and looking like a duck, do not pretend she is a chicken. No one thinks there wife will be the one that cheats, until it happens to them. You can read my story if you want but just know that if my wife can cheat, yours can too.

I kick myself still because I really think that I could have ended the whole shenanigan if I would have taken action sooner. What you need in this situation is BALLS, and quickly. It's hard to see from your position, I know I didn't at the time, so you'll just have to take the advice from those of us that have been there. Your wife will continue to get wishy-washy. She'll talk about missing her hopes and dreams, not being happy, not knowing what she wants, wanting space, wanting freedom, wanting to experience life.

It's all BS. Consider it like a first world problem. It's easy to complain about the battery on your iPhone dying when you get 3 square meals a day, a nice car, and everything you want. It's really easy for her to complain about her career, marriage, etc. when she has a good dude backing her up and supporting her financially and domestically.

The approach you need to take, which is where the 180 tries to get you, is to realize that to "win her back" you need to give her what she wants. She is not looking to leave you, she is looking to eat her cake and have it too. She wants you to stay financially supportive of her while she goes out and lives an exciting life. Maybe that means an affair, maybe that means she tries a new career. Either way, you're on the hook for her support. The more you give in and appease her, encourage her to be happy and experience life and blah blah blah, the more she will think she can have that.

What she really needs is a dose of reality. Not like in a harsh way, but the best thing you can do is encourage her to leave. Let her know that she's right, you should be entitled to a better relationship, and expedite her moving out. Draft up the divorce papers for her. Buy her boxes to move out. As soon as she sees what she's losing, and that you're not her whipping boy, she's immediately going to have second doubts. "This guy thinks he can do better, I better straighten up my act so he doesn't move on. I've got a good thing here."

Right now your wife has all the power in the relationship. She threatens, you do more. She wants to leave, you do all the heavy lifting. You are what we call, a "nice guy" or doormat. You need to become the guy that she dated. If she told you when you first started dating that she didn't know what she wanted and had to ask her girlfriends if she should stay with you, would you have put up with that sh*t? Marriage or no marriage, you won't have a healthy relationship if you don't respect yourself.

That's why every solution you'll read in a book works on the same principle (180, love must be tough, his needs her needs, MMSL, etc.). Wife starts acting afool, you fix yourself and get willing to walk away. The more you fight for your marriage to stay together, the more she will struggle to be free. If you want to save your marriage, you have to be willing to let it go.

As the scientific proof, read this thread on a women's infidelity book. You'll probably be amazed at the similarities to your wife (I was). If I read it, sounds like your wife is somewhere between stage 2 and 3, ie just started or about to start an affair.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/38920-women-s-infidelity-book.html

The best part of the book is right here. Confirmation of all these books and what I'm telling you. This chick interviewed hundreds of cheating women, this is gold right here:



> *
> Did you interview anyone who made it through this?
> *
> Yes, I did. I interviewed two men who handled themselves
> ...


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Become the man you want to be. Be the man you think you need to be. Show her what she'd be leaving. But do it for you.


And do it with the mentality of moving on to find someone better, hotter, more deserving. That may motivate you during the difficult times.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> I do. A couple of them that have been sitting on hold for a few months. I plan to resurrect one of them tonight.
> 
> I guess I want two things: I want to try and save the marriage but I also want to get to a place where I'm ok if we decide to part.


The 180 is for you then. Stay busy, get involved in that hobby. Doing that is more attractive to your wife than simply hanging around moping. Even though it's hard to do while your mind is in turmoil, stay upbeat, like your life is fine without her.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If she notices and asks what's up, just smile and say you're taking care of you now. or something. Don't admit to the 180 lol.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

You are good people. I've never met any of you before but you have been very helpful in helping me sort out my thoughts. You have given me a dose of reality, challenged me to confront my denial and have given me some specific action to take care of myself. I'm almost in tears as I type this but thank you for making me realize that right now - it's all about me.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

No crying! Suck it up, man!

 Kidding...cry all you want, just NOT IN FRONT OF HER!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

MMM5000 said:


> You are good people. I've never met any of you before but you have been very helpful in helping me sort out my thoughts. You have given me a dose of reality, challenged me to confront my denial and have given me some specific action to take care of myself. I'm almost in tears as I type this but thank you for making me realize that right now - it's all about me.


This forum us made of people who have gone through some of the sh#ttiest things you can deal with in a marriage. The rallying cry is making sure guys like you have the facts so you can approach the situation intelligently. we know what its like to have your life partner give you the boot.

You're in for a long hard fight, but when you're done you will look back and be thankful. You're going to be a better person from this.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> I'm almost in tears as I type this but thank you for making me realize that right now - it's all about me.


Do not let your wife see those tears or any other emotional weakness. You're in a war and you don't want the enemy to know you've only got a few rounds left in your pistol.

To her, your weakness is very unattractive. It just won't work for you. Those who choose to play the sympathy card end up losing all their chips.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, at this point with her, if she saw you weak, it would push her further away.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Yea, at this point with her, if she saw you weak, it would push her further away.


Yes, last night I was doing everything I could to appear strong, confident and at-peace. I think it worked but I was an emotional wreck so I'm sure that came through as well.

I plan on doing the same tonight. Spend a good hour of attentive quality time with the child, do my workout and then dive right into my hobby. I plan to be pleasant and confident and maybe even crack a few jokes. This is much more appealing than sulking and acting miserable. Really, I have a lot to be happy about and a lot of things to be thankful for. Just because one aspect of my life is falling apart doesn't mean I should let the others drop too.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I really have to stop making people cry on this board


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> Yes, last night I was doing everything I could to appear strong, confident and at-peace. I think it worked but I was an emotional wreck so I'm sure that came through as well.
> 
> I plan on doing the same tonight. Spend a good hour of attentive quality time with the child, do my workout and then dive right into my hobby. I plan to be pleasant and confident and maybe even crack a few jokes. This is much more appealing than sulking and acting miserable. Really, I have a lot to be happy about and a lot of things to be thankful for. Just because one aspect of my life is falling apart doesn't mean I should let the others drop too.



Keep up the exercise routine, its important for your emotional and mental well being. Due to a medical procedure I had last week I cannot work out and I am about to go nuts. My dogs are gaining weight because I can't walk them right now. 

Make sure you are eating three nutritious meals a day. No junk food! If you are feeling depressed, go see your doctor and ask him to prescribe a mild anti depressent like Zoloft or Elavil. They will help with the mood swings.

And don't give up snooping for an affair. MMM5000 I'll buy you a book of your choice and mail it to you if I'm wrong! She's got someone on the side brother. My radar is buzzing!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Keep up the exercise routine, its important for your emotional and mental well being. Due to a medical procedure I had last week I cannot work out and I am about to go nuts. My dogs are gaining weight because I can't walk them right now.
> 
> Make sure you are eating three nutritious meals a day. No junk food! If you are feeling depressed, go see your doctor and ask him to prescribe a mild anti depressent like Zoloft or Elavil. They will help with the mood swings.
> 
> And don't give up snooping for an affair. MMM5000 I'll buy you a book of your choice and mail it to you if I'm wrong! She's got someone on the side brother. My radar is buzzing!


I'd make his next house payment. If the computer and phone doesn't turn up anything, I'd up the ante to a VAR in the car/house, GPS tracker, and/or keylogger. This chick is talking to someone. Hell, I'd hire a PI if I needed it.

Nothing surprises me anymore. I've even seen where the woman turns lesbian with one of her "best friends".


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> Yes, last night I was doing everything I could to appear strong, confident and at-peace. I think it worked but I was an emotional wreck so I'm sure that came through as well.


It can't be both.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

hisfac said:


> It can't be both.


True. It's amazing to me how much my mental state has improved in the last 24 hours. This sucks, and I'm devastated but I've also accepted the fact that this might end and have already started taking action to take care of myself. I went this once before, about 4 years ago, and it took me MUCH longer to recover then....about two weeks before I could think straight or eat a normal diet. I already feel much better.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

MMM5000 said:


> True. It's amazing to me how much my mental state has improved in the last 24 hours. This sucks, and I'm devastated but I've also accepted the fact that this might end and have already started taking action to take care of myself. I went this once before, about 4 years ago, and it took me MUCH longer to recover then....about two weeks before I could think straight or eat a normal diet. I already feel much better.


It's empowering to "man up"


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

It's a matter of 'fake it til you make it', and learning to play the role until it's no longer a role.

Eventually you'll realize it's no effort at all because it's really what you've become.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> True. It's amazing to me how much my mental state has improved in the last 24 hours. This sucks, and I'm devastated but I've also accepted the fact that this might end and have already started taking action to take care of myself. I went this once before, about 4 years ago, and it took me MUCH longer to recover then....about two weeks before I could think straight or eat a normal diet. I already feel much better.


Just understand that this is a temporary high. You may be back down in the bottoms tomorrow. The mood swings are going to come with agonizing regularity my friend. All you can do is let it flow, let the pain come.... process it through your body. If you have to cry, go somewhere private, out of sight and cry your eyes out... but never around her. 

Just keep walking forward and keep breathing. You are alive and you have a child who loves you. Think of yourself as a pachyderm, strolling non-stop across the Kalahari in search of that far green meadow. 

Just keep pushing forward and away from the person who is no longer your wife. That person no longer exists. Stay in the land of the living and move on without her.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MMM5000 said:


> So what can I do? Other than take care of myself?
> 
> Can I win her back? Is it possible?


Of course you can win her back. But it may be a lot more work than any of us planned on. Getting anxious or upset over what she says or does, however understandable it may be, will only turn her off more. To succeed here, one has to ascend to a "bulletproof" emotional state so as not to be negatively affected by anything, no matter how awful. This is a real challenge. Only when you have achieved this state can you start your work on winning her back. Starting to disconnect from her through a 180 type program is a good first step.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement, gang. 180 starts tonight.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Write in if you have problems with the 180. 

It is a very counterintuitive process. You will make mistakes and have lapses here and there. Don't sweat it, just get back on the bicycle. 

It's hard to implement because you will be concentrating on doing away with old habits and replacing them with new ones, and you know how hard that is.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

First night of the 180 and it went well. I can definitely see the benefits. She worked last night and I usually leave the outside light on because she comes home after dark. No light left on last night. When she came in, the door opened to a soft, "Hello?" I didn't reply because I was downstairs working on my project (I write stories). A few minutes later she came down. Usually I ask her about her day right away but I just kept my eyes on my writing. I could tell she was waiting for me to ask about her day but I held strong and said nothing. I was polite, I smiled, I was composed, but I was busy working. After about 5-7 minutes, I could tell it was bothering her, finally she said, "Anyway, tonight...." and then started telling me about her day. Then we started talking and it was nice. Very friendly (as it always is) and I even cracked a few jokes. Then I showed her what I was working on and told her I felt the story was very good. She smiled at me - a proud, admiring smile. See, it was my writing that originally brought us together. We used to work on this stuff together so it was almost like a memory of the old days. I could see an obvious twinkle there. We chatted for about 2 hours while we worked side by side (she is a painter). We talked about out 7 year old, we talked about our projects, we talked about the weekend. Usually I initiate the conversation but last night it was a good mixture of both of us. I think we both felt really comfortable working and talking because this is what we usually do - this is what we like to do together. 

Of course, I still remind myself of what got me into this situation in the first place, and it's still hard. It still sucks. But last night I felt really good about myself, and I think she took note. It was hard not giving her a goodnight kiss or a goodnight hug. This is tough, but last night I went to bed feeling much better about the situation than I did two nights ago.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> Of course, I still remind myself of what got me into this situation in the first place, and it's still hard. It still sucks. But last night I felt really good about myself, and I think she took note. It was hard not giving her a goodnight kiss or a goodnight hug. This is tough, but last night I went to bed feeling much better about the situation than I did two nights ago.


How does kissing her and talking with her for two hours allow you to emotionally detach from her?

Your being her friend, which is what she wants. Now she knows she can go and do whatever she wishes and that you will be hanging around available to her anytime when no one else will pay attention to her.

You accomplished nothing. The 180 is for disengagement, not to help you get along better with someone who is intending to leave you.

Read the 180 again. Then read it again, and when you get done with that, read it again.


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> How does kissing her and talking with her for two hours allow you to emotionally detach from her?
> 
> Your being her friend, which is what she wants. Now she knows she can go and do whatever she wishes and that you will be hanging around available to her anytime when no one else will pay attention to her.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's what I was looking for too. Hell, even I know about the 180 and know that I'm not doing it!


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Okay, well, thanks for the encouraging words I guess.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MMM5000 said:


> I still remind myself of what got me into this situation in the first place, and it's still hard. It still sucks


Have you considered trying to have this treated as a medical problem? My wife's had ob surgery and the surgeon was telling us about her (the doctor's) practice and some of the new protocols they were using to treat dysfunction. This all went over my wife's head, but what I heard was that the modern medicine wanted to be a partner in improving our marriage.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> Okay, well, thanks for the encouraging words I guess.


We're not here to butter your a*s MMM. We're here to help a friend through a crisis. I'm not trying to bring your down, just trying to guide you through the process.

Understand that you have to fight every husbandly instinct and inclination you have to be affectionate and loving towards your wife. 

You must understand that at this point she is no longer in love with you. She sees you as a brother, a buddy, a pal, but not as a husband. Is that what you want to live with? You cannot be any of these things to her if you are to move on with your life. This woman has, for all intents and purposes, abandoned you, even though she does not think she has. 

If you want me to butt out I will. Just say the word.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> We're not here to butter your a*s MMM.


This made me :rofl:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My first couple weeks of 180 were rough. Hubs came over 4 days a week and even though I seemed cool and calm, I was shaking and my palms were sweaty and my heart was beating out of my chest!
But over time, the 180 became normal. And things started to evolve but I just had to fake it til I made it. And it did help me get out of that dark place at least 80%. I was also in IC...which helped a TON for my anxiety and techniques to help myself.

Keep it up. It will work in more ways than you realize right now.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

If you want something you never had, you have to do something you never done.

I live by this, and the work you put into it is it's own reward. You learn so much about yourself through the process.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

It was the first night I tried this. I did not expect to get it 100%right on the first try. It was very counterintuitive - I was constantly reminding myself not to do things. Maybe we can focus on the things I did right and build on those:

-No affection or physical contact, when I am always physically affectionate, hugging, kissing, etc...

-Did not ask how she was, or about her day, which I always do. Instead, was completely silent and disinterested until she started the conversation.

-No texting or interaction through Facebook, when I usually contact her through those channels at least twice a day.

-Did not mention future plans (the weekend, etc.) when I usually do. 

-Was calm, pleasant, confident and engaged in my own work, instead of sulking on the couch in a bout of depression (which is what I wanted to do!!)...also did a strenuous workout to clear my head. Felt great after that. 

So yeah, I didn't get it completely right. Maybe I shouldn't have talked to her at all. Maybe I shouldn't have even been in the same room with her. But I think I saw some positive movement FOR MYSELF. I felt better about the situation and better about the future, regardless of what happens. Despite being an emotional wreck, I tried to present myself as the complete opposite and I could so it starting to work.

So there.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You did fine, I'm sure.

I just did the opposite of what I had been doing. For me, I actually had to become nice and had to lose my sarcasm. That was my first step and the first thing he noticed. No more sarcasm and that i was more calm.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MMM5000 said:


> So yeah, I didn't get it completely right. Maybe I shouldn't have talked to her at all. Maybe I shouldn't have even been in the same room with her. But I think I saw some positive movement FOR MYSELF. I felt better about the situation and better about the future, regardless of what happens. Despite being an emotional wreck, I tried to present myself as the complete opposite and I could so it starting to work.
> 
> So there.


Next time she corners you in a room, talk politely like you did, but after a minute or so tell her you need to go to the bathroom. Excuse yourself and then just leave and go for a jog.


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## MMM5000 (Apr 4, 2012)

Ok, I like that. Just go.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah, keep your workout clothes on while you're at home, that way you can make an easy escape and have a legitimate excuse for when you come back home. 

Are you going to talk to a lawyer soon? At least have a consult?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm not going to be as hard on you as Bandit. To me the biggest part of the 180 is doing things for you, not for the other person or "relationship."

If you want to write stories, write stories. If you want to get out of the house and go do man sh*t, go do it. Don't wait for her approval or spend time making her feel good. Act as if you were single (in the sense that you live with your best interests at all times).

You want to come off as indifferent, not an a**hole. The intimacy thing I don't know about, I'm not an expert so I won't comment on if that's a good idea or not.

The important things you did. Don't wait up for her, get involved in your hobbies, start making yourself a priority.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sounds petty, but one of the biggest ways I got back my own control was always being the one to say goodbye first. 

Can't say I wasn't petty and lame for a while, but it helped me feel better about things. I was always polite, but always had to go first....even though I didn't want to. Felt good to not be needy...cause i just wanted to grab onto his legs and beg him to stay lol!


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

that_girl said:


> You did fine, I'm sure.
> 
> I just did the opposite of what I had been doing. For me, *I actually had to become nice and had to lose my sarcasm*. That was my first step and the first thing he noticed. No more sarcasm and that i was more calm.


You sarcastic??? No way!!!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Jayb said:


> You sarcastic??? No way!!!


LOL I don't believe anything TG says anyways.

A girl that enjoys sex and BJs with her husband? Does not exist.....

(j/k! I'm pretty sure you're real. Like 85% sure at least)


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I barely got through page 2. Seven pages: SEVEN! When all we should have done is refer him to that sticky thread at the top of the General page titled:

"Wife left the marriage? Post here."

What? There isn't one? That's odd, because that's what wives do. ALL THE TIME! Seven pages treating this guys situation like it's something we've never heard about.

It almost caught some traction when Oprah had her big "Walk Away Wife" thing going. But people googled it and saw there were all of these stages and would say, "no, that's not exactly what's happened here". If you google "Walk Away Wife" it should just say that most women fall out of love with their husbands some time between 3 and 10 years of marriage, then "see 180 and good luck".

Your wife left the marriage. You are HARDLY alone. Oh, and I almost forgot: they RARELY come back. Some wives are just better actors than others.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

OK. I read the whole thing. 180 good. Just don't get too hung up on the part that says "make yourself better and if she decides to come along, great". The chances of her coming along are minimal. What I found with MY 180 was that it just gave her more time to herself. It allowed her to pull away completely. So it worked in that I now know 100% she's not coming back. Once that doubt is gone, it makes it A LOT easier to disengage. Don't fear that outcome, PLAN ON IT!


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## Jayb (Mar 6, 2012)

MrK said:


> OK. I read the whole thing. 180 good. Just don't get too hung up on the part that says "make yourself better and if she decides to come along, great". The chances of her coming along are minimal. *What I found with MY 180 was that it just gave her more time to herself. It allowed her to pull away completely. *So it worked in that I now know 100% she's not coming back. Once that doubt is gone, it makes it A LOT easier to disengage. Don't fear that outcome, PLAN ON IT!


Yeah, that's the hard thing about the 180. What are the chances that the wives come back and try again, or 1 last time? Very minimal. Then, I begin to think about all of this changing, etc. For what? The wife returning with minimal chances???

That said, I realize the 180 is for ME. To help ME detach ASAP to allow for healing. Any delay, delays healing, and happiness.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Jayb said:


> Yeah, that's the hard thing about the 180. What are the chances that the wives come back and try again, or 1 last time? Very minimal. Then, I begin to think about all of this changing, etc. For what? The wife returning with minimal chances???
> 
> That said, I realize the 180 is for ME. To help ME detach ASAP to allow for healing. Any delay, delays healing, and happiness.



:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Big YEP.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Jayb said:


> Yeah, that's the hard thing about the 180. What are the chances that the wives come back and try again, or 1 last time? Very minimal. Then, I begin to think about all of this changing, etc. For what? The wife returning with minimal chances???
> 
> That said, I realize the 180 is for ME. To help ME detach ASAP to allow for healing. Any delay, delays healing, and happiness.


There's certainly times it doesn't work, but there's a lot of times it does as well. There's no way to tell unless you try. There's a lot of success stories out there of people who used infidelity to build a stronger marriage.

Being certain that it won't work or it's not worth it is IMO just as shameful as being hopelessly optimistic.

You don't know till you try.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

update?


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