# Secretly consuming porn outside of the boundaries of the marriage?



## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

What if it's not an addiction, but you think your spouse is completely unreasonable in their view on porn, and not open to discussing or negotiating? It's your body, your mind, after all, so why would you let someone else dictate your choices? I wouldn't let someone dictate my choices in that way, over a philosophical difference of opinion. If it isn't preventing you from intimacy with your spouse, or replacing them in any way, then it's really not their concern. If it is affecting your sex life with them, then yes, it is an issue.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Machjo said:


> So why marry someone who wants to keep porn outside of the boundaries of the marriage if you disagree with that? Isn't before the marriage the time to discuss these boundaries and not after the marriage?


Yes, the best time to discuss all this is before marriage, of course. However, you may disagree, but not think it matters enough to not get married. Personally, I would not marry someone who had very different views on any of a variety of topics, but some people would. Some people may think it's a stupid and small-minded limitation, and have no problem disregarding something they think is ridiculous.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, the best time to discuss all this is before marriage, of course. However, you may disagree, but not think it matters enough to not get married. Personally, I would not marry someone who had very different views on any of a variety of topics, but some people would. Some people may think it's a stupid and small-minded limitation, and have no problem disregarding something they think is ridiculous.




You can’t possibly discuss everything and cover every possible eventuality before you get married. I think it would have come across a bit weirdly, if during my proposal, I said: 
‘honey, you know how when we are married, and when you’ll be covered in baby poo and too tired from all the cleaning, cooking and arguing and how sex is going to be completely not in the forefront of your mind, will you then mind too much if I took the liberty to masturbate to an anonymous woman’s behind in such a circumstance using my left hand? Will you marry me?’

Boundaries change, tolerances change, circumstances change. It’s life. Lets be adaptable and open minded.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Machjo said:


> I've read a few comments on these forums about people consuming porn in secret knowing that their spouse would not approve of it.
> 
> I understand that watching porn falls within the agreed-on boundaries among certain couples so I'm not addressing them here.
> 
> In those couples in which it falls outside of the agreed-on boundaries of the marriage, why do you do it? I understand porn addiction, but why do you fear asking your spouse for help? I would think your spouse would more appreciate your asking for help than suddenly catching you red-handed one day.


It depends on the circumstances. If a spouse will not or cannot provide any sexual release for their partner, might not the use of porn then be understandable. And under those circumstance (should the spouse already being feeling guilty about their lack of sexual companionship) saying to them: "Hey! You are so useless as a husband/wife I am having to use porn!" would not help their ego. And trust me, no matter what fancy language you wrap it up in, all they would hear would be: _"Hey! You are so useless as a husband/wife I am having to use porn!" _


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> And trust me, no matter what fancy language you wrap it up in, all they would hear would be: _"Hey! You are so useless as a husband/wife I am having to use porn!" _


And they may be right, and that may be true. And if it is, then the spouse should fix it, or leave.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Machjo said:


> It would seem tome that discussing porn would be an important point to discuss before marriage. I'm not saying that to violate that boundary would necessarily warrant a divorce, but it certainly could affect trust.



Nope, would never have crossed my mind! I thought (as I’m sure did many other people) that kinky sex would continue indefinitely. 
Which it did. But we had dips here and there. So porn was great. And she doesn’t have a problem with me using it much (should the need arise...).
I wish there were other things I had discussed though. You just never know what hurdles can come during the course of your marriage.
Perhaps TAM can come up with a universal Prenup agreement: taking All the experiences collectively, feeding them into a computer, and spitting out a universal prenup.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Nope, would never have crossed my mind! I thought (as I’m sure did many other people) that kinky sex would continue indefinitely.
> Which it did.


It never occurred to us to discuss it. It didn't seem important. And, it never has been important, and has never been an issue. So, I guess it isn't important. Perhaps if you have a strong opinion on the matter, you'd ask, but even then, you may not get an honest answer. Just like number of past partners, it really isn't your partner's business unless if begins to affect the relationship directly.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Machjo said:


> I acknowledge that it could hurt, but how is the other spouse supposed to help the one watching porn if he doesn't know that his spouse is watching porn?


How would they help? Pick some hot videos? Reenact some scenes? Or guilt them out and make an issue of their own insecurities and possible inadequacies? >


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> What if it's not an addiction, but you think your spouse is completely unreasonable in their view on porn, and not open to discussing or negotiating? It's your body, your mind, after all, so why would you let someone else dictate your choices? I wouldn't let someone dictate my choices in that way, over a philosophical difference of opinion. If it isn't preventing you from intimacy with your spouse, or replacing them in any way, then it's really not their concern. If it is affecting your sex life with them, then yes, it is an issue.


If you disagree on something so important then its best not to marry them. If you know that for them its a no no don't lie about it and then do it behind their backs.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> How would they help? Pick some hot videos? Reenact some scenes? Or guilt them out and make an issue of their own insecurities and possible inadequacies? >


A person could react in any of those ways, but at least it would no longer be done outside of the agreed boundaries of the marriage should the other spouse decide to agree to it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Machjo said:


> A person could react in any of those ways, but at least it would no longer be done outside of the agreed boundaries of the marriage should the other spouse decide to agree to it.


Well, assuming they've discussed it and made an agreement, which I don't think happens all that often. It's usually addressed *after *the fact of one perceiving a problem.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, the best time to discuss all this is before marriage, of course. However, you may disagree, but not think it matters enough to not get married. Personally, I would not marry someone who had very different views on any of a variety of topics, but some people would. Some people may think it's a stupid and small-minded limitation, and have no problem disregarding something they think is ridiculous.


And many would think it was a very important issue that there needs to be complete agreement on rather than ignore their partners wishes in a disrespectful way and do it anyway. Not a good start to marriage with that attitude.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> And many would think it was a very important issue that there needs to be complete agreement on rather than ignore their partners wishes in a disrespectful way and do it anyway. Not a good start to marriage with that attitude.


Agreed. And those people should make sure the issue is discussed and agreement reached ahead of time. If not, then you may find that you disagree, too late.

It was never a concern for us before we married. And it has never become an issue. Other people may have a different experience, of course.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Machjo said:


> It would seem tome that discussing porn would be an important point to discuss before marriage. I'm not saying that to violate that boundary would necessarily warrant a divorce, but it certainly could affect trust.


Yes it would affect trust, especially if they had lied about doing it before marriage. 
Yes something that important needs to be talked about before marriage to make sure that both are on the same page. For both of us its something that we don't do and wouldn't accept in marriage. So if one is doing it in secret they clearly haven't got the same boundaries and one wasn't honest.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Agreed. And those people should make sure the issue is discussed and agreement reached ahead of time. If not, then you may find that you disagree, too late.
> 
> It was never a concern for us before we married. And it has never become an issue. Other people may have a different experience, of course.


Not its never been an issue for us either, neither of us would watch porn, but I do know people whose husbands kept their porn use a secret and it devastated the marriage when it came to light. Its not just the porn its the lies and deception and marrying then under false pretences.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Not its never been an issue for us either, neither of us would watch porn, but I do know people whose husbands kept their porn use a secret and it devastated the marriage when it came to light. Its not just the porn its the lies and deception and marrying then under false pretences.


Of course, if it was never discussed, there is no deception. So, if it matters to you, ask!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> You can’t possibly discuss everything and cover every possible eventuality before you get married. I think it would have come across a bit weirdly, if during my proposal, I said:
> ‘honey, you know how when we are married, and when you’ll be covered in baby poo and too tired from all the cleaning, cooking and arguing and how sex is going to be completely not in the forefront of your mind, will you then mind too much if I took the liberty to masturbate to an anonymous woman’s behind in such a circumstance using my left hand? Will you marry me?’
> 
> Boundaries change, tolerances change, circumstances change. It’s life. Lets be adaptable and open minded.
> ...


For most people things like this that are important to them would have come out during the dating time. We found out very early on what our attitudes were toward sex porn etc by talking about it.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Not its never been an issue for us either, neither of us would watch porn, but I do know people whose husbands kept their porn use a secret and it devastated the marriage when it came to light. Its not just the porn its the lies and deception and marrying then under false pretences.


I would've easily forgiven the lying. 

It was actually more hurtful that he (my ex-husband) prefered pornography to talking to me and working through whatever the problems were. It was just easier for him. It was lazy and weak.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> Of course, if it was never discussed, there is no deception. So, if it matters to you, ask!


That's the point it was discussed, and the men lied. That's why they married them under false pretences.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

minimalME said:


> I would've easily forgiven the lying.
> 
> It was actually more hurtful that he (my ex-husband) prefered pornography to talking to me and working through whatever the problems were. It was just easier for him. It was lazy and weak.


Yep. I sort of see it like a baby with a dummy or comfort blanket. Only these are grown men. Its their 'pacifier'.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> You can’t possibly discuss everything and cover every possible eventuality before you get married. I think it would have come across a bit weirdly, if during my proposal, I said:
> ‘honey, you know how when we are married, and when you’ll be covered in baby poo and too tired from all the cleaning, cooking and arguing and how sex is going to be completely not in the forefront of your mind, will you then mind too much if I took the liberty to masturbate to an anonymous woman’s behind in such a circumstance using my left hand? Will you marry me?’
> 
> Boundaries change, tolerances change, circumstances change. It’s life. Lets be adaptable and open minded.
> ...


Some very important boundaries don't change because they are so vital.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Yep. I sort of see it like a baby with a dummy or comfort blanket. Only these are grown men. Its their 'pacifier'.


gross :surprise:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Some very important boundaries don't change because they are so vital.


Something that was vital for you, may not be as vital for the partner later on...
For most people, porn is not a big deal and not worth the discussion. However it's great you managed to find common ground about everything with your husband beforehand...And I mean it sincerely.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

I think we can also look at it in a few ways.

1. If a person who watches porn truly sees nothing wrong with it, then why would he keep it a secret in the first place? We would presume that he'd mention it to his spouse one day and that's when his spouse, realizing that he sincerely sees nothing wrong with it, could kindly explain to him that that's outside the boundaries of the marriage. In such a situation, the spouse would probably treat the offending spouse kindly recognizing that he truly didn't understand that what he was doing was wrong and would simply educate him about why that's outside the boundaries of the marriage; and if the offending spouse were sincere about it, he'd quit or ask for help to quit if he was struggling with it.

2. If the offending spouse informs the other of his habit and should he later need help to change, he'd now feel more comfortable asking the other spouse for help to do so and so the other spouse, knowing about the problem, could help him to the degree that he accepts the help. If the offending spouse keeps it a secret, then how can the other help him when the habit escalates? If he keeps it a secret as it escalates, then the secrets will merely pile up.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Something that was vital for you, may not be as vital for the partner later on...
> For most people, porn is not a big deal and not worth the discussion. However it's great you managed to find common ground about everything with your husband beforehand...And I mean it sincerely.
> 
> Can I ask a personal question? Do you have _any_ issues in your marriage at all? I think you are the only user on TAM where I have never ever read anything negative at all. Which is amazing. I am just curious if there are any areas where you don't have as common ground. Don't worry if it's too personal. I think there's nothing better than two people who share exactly the same values and have common ground about everything.


I think a difference exists between having differences and keeping secrets that the other partner has a right to know.

For example, if something traumatic happened that caused my wife to turn to alcohol one day and she then began to struggle with it, I certainly would not want her to try to keep it a secret from me. I'd want to know not so that I can divorce her, but so I can help her through it. Some people might turn to gambling, sex, porn, heroin, or all kinds of other things when they face a traumatic experience in their lives. If they hide it, no one can help them.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Machjo said:


> I think a difference exists between having differences and keeping secrets that the other partner has a right to know.
> 
> For example, if something traumatic happened that caused my wife to turn to alcohol one day and she then began to struggle with it, I certainly would not want her to try to keep it a secret from me. I'd want to know not so that I can divorce her, but so I can help her through it. Some people might turn to gambling, sex, porn, heroin, or all kinds of other things when they face a traumatic experience in their lives. If they hide it, no one can help them.


But what if it was your wife's behaviour that was (partly) the cause of turning to porn? (Lack of sex and unwillingness to do anything about it). Hypothetically.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Something that was vital for you, may not be as vital for the partner later on...
> For most people, porn is not a big deal and not worth the discussion. However it's great you managed to find common ground about everything with your husband beforehand...And I mean it sincerely.
> 
> Can I ask a personal question? Do you have _any_ issues in your marriage at all? I think you are the only user on TAM where I have never ever read anything negative at all. Which is amazing. I am just curious if there are any areas where you don't have as common ground. Don't worry if it's too personal. I think there's nothing better than two people who share exactly the same values and have common ground about everything.


We are very different in personality, in that he is a very clever man with a science PHd and often has his mind/thoughts in the research and work he is doing while I am more down to earth, sensible and practical. In that way I guess we compliment each other very well. He is a man who is incredibly easy going, easy to please and patient, so that helps so much. To be honest its very easy being married to a man like him. He says the same of me but I don't think I am as easy as he is.:surprise: 

Early on we had a lot to deal with with his ex and step kids etc, also his mother who tried to break us up when we went to see her in OZ, and we both also had a lot of baggage from our past long marriages and other horrible things that I had been though in life, so that wasn't an easy couple of years. However we were always strong together so we got though it. 

We do share all of the important values, such as our faith, how we see marriage, attitude to money, the importance of faithfulness and trust and honesty etc. He is also a very good step dad and my adult children respect him a lot and get on with him very well. 

Obviously its a second marriage for both of us, so we realise how fortunate we are to have such a good marriage. Especially when I read all of the sad posts here. :frown2: I was very sure of the sort of man I wanted this time round, and I wasn't prepared to compromise or settle for second best, even if that meant I stayed single.

BTW I am also a great believer in speaking about our spouses in a positive and good way. I would never run him down in front of others or speak badly about him when he wasn't there. His ex did that and its horrible.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Hard to cover all the porn discussions.

What is considered porn. Lots of women read romance novels where there are grafic sex scenes but its written . 

But would be appalled when their husband is looking at visual porn.

Should women make sure their husbands are ok with erotica?

Both are considered porn by definition.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Machjo said:


> I think a difference exists between having differences and keeping secrets that the other partner has a right to know.
> 
> For example, if something traumatic happened that caused my wife to turn to alcohol one day and she then began to struggle with it, I certainly would not want her to try to keep it a secret from me. I'd want to know not so that I can divorce her, but so I can help her through it. Some people might turn to gambling, sex, porn, heroin, or all kinds of other things when they face a traumatic experience in their lives. If they hide it, no one can help them.


I think it would be harder to hide if they were drinking a lot(you could smell it and they would be drunk sometimes) or gambling(money would be disappearing from the bank account) or drugs (which does show in behaviour etc). . 

I guess you need to observe how that person deals with stress and anxiety before you agree to marry them. 
I met my husband when his wife was cheating on him and divorcing him, so I saw first hand how he dealt with hard and difficult times and how well he acted towards her despite what she was doing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> Hard to cover all the porn discussions.
> 
> What is considered porn. Lots of women read romance novels where there are grafic sex scenes but its written .
> 
> ...


Yes these are all things that should come out while dating. Having said that, I would far rather have a spouse who read books with sex scenes in them that watched sex scenes with real people. Most people live together for years before marriage now, so all these things should be pretty obvious.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> But what if it was your wife's behaviour that was (partly) the cause of turning to porn? (Lack of sex and unwillingness to do anything about it). Hypothetically.


Okay, let's go with that. Though I struggled with different problems even before marrying my wife, I was clean of alcohol, sex, etc. for over a year before meeting my wife. Sure it meant wet dreams, but so be it: that's what laundry machines are for. Had that not been the case, I would have refused to court her, simple as that.

Furthermore, in spite of the fact that I'd brought my problems under control long before meeting my wife, I still told her about them. Why? Because if they were problems in the past, they could become problems in the future if ever I should face a sudden calamity in my life. Mental health is a fragile thing. I wanted to be sure that the person I was marrying would love me enough to help me through my problems if ever I needed help. We've been married for three years now and I still haven't burdened her with anything. In spite of the fact that I've not struggled with these issues for so long, I still act as if I do. I don't consume alcohol and I still use a filtered browser for example even though I feel no temptation to drink or visit inappropriate web sites. Nonetheless, I recognize that that is a part of who I am and I'd rather not take chances. Addiction is compulsive: anyone who's experienced compulsion understands how destructive it can be.

With that in mind, if ever I did struggle with porn, I would trust my wife to help me. Heck, she knows that I have a screen-blocking app and a filtered browser on my phone. There is no secret there.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Yes these are all things that should come out while dating. Having said that, I would far rather have a spouse who read books with sex scenes in them that watched sex scenes with real people. Most people live together for years before marriage now, so all these things should be pretty obvious.



Ah, but that’s a double standard. Just because you imagine the sex scenes in your head doesn’t make reading and masturbating to it a more ‘honest’ activity than masturbating to porn.
The characters in porn movies are also not ‘real’, even though they may be real people (hentai doesn’t count).
I think women just can’t relate to visual stimulation in the same way.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

chillymorn69 said:


> Hard to cover all the porn discussions.
> 
> What is considered porn. *Lots of women read romance novels where there are grafic sex scenes but its written . *
> 
> ...


I would have no problem tossing material that my spouse found morally objectionable, having said that tho, I don't read romance novels.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Ah, but that’s a double standard. Just because you imagine the sex scenes in your head doesn’t make reading and masturbating to it a more ‘honest’ activity than masturbating to porn.
> The characters in porn movies are also not ‘real’, even though they may be real people (hentai doesn’t count).
> I think women just can’t relate to visual stimulation in the same way.
> 
> ...


That's why they need to discuss basic boundaries before marriage.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Machjo said:


> Okay, let's go with that. Though I struggled with different problems even before marrying my wife, I was clean of alcohol, sex, etc. for over a year before meeting my wife. Sure it meant wet dreams, but so be it: that's what laundry machines are for. Had that not been the case, I would have refused to court her, simple as that.
> 
> Furthermore, in spite of the fact that I'd brought my problems under control long before meeting my wife, I still told her about them. Why? Because if they were problems in the past, they could become problems in the future if ever I should face a sudden calamity in my life. Mental health is a fragile thing. I wanted to be sure that the person I was marrying would love me enough to help me through my problems if ever I needed help. We've been married for three years now and I still haven't burdened her with anything. In spite of the fact that I've not struggled with these issues for so long, I still act as if I do. I don't consume alcohol and I still use a filtered browser for example even though I feel no temptation to drink or visit inappropriate web sites. Nonetheless, I recognize that that is a part of who I am and I'd rather not take chances. Addiction is compulsive: anyone who's experienced compulsion understands how destructive it can be.
> 
> With that in mind, if ever I did struggle with porn, I would trust my wife to help me. Heck, she knows that I have a screen-blocking app and a filtered browser on my phone. There is no secret there.


I agree, that would be the best (if partner was willing to help with addictions etc). But I think it might be a bit idealistic; I don't think it's fair to dump too much onto the partner (you didn't, but I am talking in general).


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## Selenne (Feb 4, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> What if it's not an addiction, but you think your spouse is completely unreasonable in their view on porn, and not open to discussing or negotiating? It's your body, your mind, after all, so why would you let someone else dictate your choices? I wouldn't let someone dictate my choices in that way, over a philosophical difference of opinion. If it isn't preventing you from intimacy with your spouse, or replacing them in any way, then it's really not their concern. If it is affecting your sex life with them, then yes, it is an issue.


Yes, I used to be of the same opinion. Not dictating anything, always trying to look good for him. Now it's been two years and a half that he's been trying to have sex with me and he can't. But the other day he admitted that he was doing it over porns all the time. He just doesn't know what to say. His "impotence" was killing me, but this will really make me die. I feel guilty, humiliated, I am a zero.


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## Selenne (Feb 4, 2018)

:frown2:


Married but Happy said:


> What if it's not an addiction, but you think your spouse is completely unreasonable in their view on porn, and not open to discussing or negotiating? It's your body, your mind, after all, so why would you let someone else dictate your choices? I wouldn't let someone dictate my choices in that way, over a philosophical difference of opinion. If it isn't preventing you from intimacy with your spouse, or replacing them in any way, then it's really not their concern. If it is affecting your sex life with them, then yes, it is an issue.


Yes, I used to be of the same opinion. Not dictating anything, always trying to look good for him. Now it's been two years and a half that he's been trying to have sex with me and he can't. But the other day he admitted that he was doing it over porns all the time. He just doesn't know what to say. His "impotence" was killing me, but this will really make me die. I feel guilty, humiliated, I am a zero.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

Selenne said:


> Yes, I used to be of the same opinion. Not dictating anything, always trying to look good for him. Now it's been two years and a half that he's been trying to have sex with me and he can't. But the other day he admitted that he was doing it over porns all the time. He just doesn't know what to say. His "impotence" was killing me, but this will really make me die. I feel guilty, humiliated, I am a zero.


I hope you heal from that.

As for advice, I can give some based on my experiences but you will need to modify it according to your circumstances.

If you are not married to him, then you could abstain from all sexual intimacy with him. This will help you to distance yourself from him emotionally and so analyse your relationship more objectively. This in turn could help you decide what next step to take.

If you are married and he sincerely wants help, you could consider the following for him:
https://saa-recovery.org/
https://www.sa.org/
https://screentimelabs.com/
Mobicip - Parental Controls for Smartphones, Tablets & Computers
http://www.maturemetal.com

Remember that the above serves only as a guide and that he will need to cater his recovery according to his needs. If for example, he tends to watch more porn after consuming alcohol, then you might need to discuss his alcohol consumption for example.

You might need help for yourself too. The following might help you to recover from the hurt:
COSA recovery

If he doesn't want help, then you might want to consider sexual and maybe even legal separation. to make it easier, you could easier, you could agree to not file for divorce for at least one year of the sexual and legal separation. Firstly, this would give both of you a chance to rebuild if that's what he wants to do. Secondly, if he still chooses to not change, then your knowing that you won't be filing for divorce for at least a year anyway would make the sexual and legal separation seem less final and so less traumatic too.

The above are just some ideas and, again, you'll need to modify them according to your own circumstances.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I watch porn and my wife doesn't know and would almost certainly object. 

We have almost no sex life - due entirely to her choice. We married young (30 years ago) before either of us were aware that there could be differences in libido. I did what I was supposed to do and was patient for her to become "comfortable" with sex. It never happened. 

I can divorce the woman I love
I can cheat on her.
I can live like a monk

I choose the 3rd but give myself a little tiny sliver of fantasy sex life in the from of porn. Its not real, its pathetic, but its the least bad option I have available - all things considered. Without it, my temptation to cheat would me much higher - and its pretty high right now. 




Machjo said:


> I've read a few comments on these forums about people consuming porn in secret knowing that their spouse would not approve of it.
> 
> I understand that watching porn falls within the agreed-on boundaries among certain couples so I'm not addressing them here.
> 
> In those couples in which it falls outside of the agreed-on boundaries of the marriage, why do you do it? I understand porn addiction, but why do you fear asking your spouse for help? I would think your spouse would more appreciate your asking for help than suddenly catching you red-handed one day.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> I agree, that would be the best (if partner was willing to help with addictions etc). But I think it might be a bit idealistic; I don't think it's fair to dump too much onto the partner (you didn't, but I am talking in general).


I know you weren't addressing me specifically but were rather speaking in general, and I appreciate that.

Dealing with an addict who has learnt to manage his addictions is probably not that bad. My wife needs to respect my freedom to choose to not consume alcohol and support my decision in the face of pressure. She needs to accept my freedom to use screen-blocking apps and filtered browsers. She needs to accept some masochistic sexual behaviour of mine outside of my interactions with her. None of this really affects her in her daily life (and she probably even forgets about it often), but none of it is a secret from her either.

I will admit that there are some things I can't help. For example, I physically tense up if she raises her voice at me; or if I feel uncomfortable telling her something face to face, I'll text it to her. Regardless of my problems though, I refuse to do anything inappropriate behind her back.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Ah, but that’s a double standard. Just because you imagine the sex scenes in your head doesn’t make reading and masturbating to it a more ‘honest’ activity than masturbating to porn.
> The characters in porn movies are also not ‘real’, even though they may be real people (hentai doesn’t count).
> I think women just can’t relate to visual stimulation in the same way.
> 
> ...


I don't read books like that as I don't want to do anything that may lead to be being discontent with my husband/marriage, plus the fact that they are rubbish, but the whole porn industry involves real live people who are someone's child, grandchild, sibling, partner, mother. These are real people who are being lusted over by goodness knows who. I think more of people than to take advantage of that.
I would hate if a child of mine was caught up in that mess.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I don't read books like that as I don't want to do anything that may lead to be being discontent with my husband/marriage, plus the fact that they are rubbish, but the whole porn industry involves real live people who are someone's child, grandchild, sibling, partner, mother. These are real people who are being lusted over by goodness knows who. I think more of people than to take advantage of that.
> 
> I would hate if a child of mine was caught up in that mess.




Yes but it’s their choice. They don’t have to do it. And they get compensated for it handsomely. 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Also, there are more grey areas: there are some women who use their body to further their careers for example. (In my field, unfortunately it’s more the norm rather than exception). Now it’s getting more difficult because many men who are in the position of making decisions won’t take the risks anymore, due to fear of being reported or blackmailed.
In spirit, that’s not much different to prostitution. To some, sex is not a big deal. And they know how to exploit it.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> But what if it was your wife's behaviour that was (partly) the cause of turning to porn? (*Lack of sex and unwillingness to do anything about it*). Hypothetically.





Machjo said:


> Okay, let's go with that. Though I struggled with different problems even before marrying my wife, I was clean of alcohol, sex, etc. for over a year before meeting my wife. Sure it meant wet dreams, but so be it: that's what laundry machines are for. Had that not been the case, I would have refused to court her, simple as that.
> 
> Furthermore, in spite of the fact that I'd brought my problems under control long before meeting my wife, I still told her about them. Why? Because if they were problems in the past, they could become problems in the future if ever I should face a sudden calamity in my life. Mental health is a fragile thing. I wanted to be sure that the person I was marrying would love me enough to help me through my problems if ever I needed help. We've been married for three years now and I still haven't burdened her with anything. In spite of the fact that I've not struggled with these issues for so long, I still act as if I do. I don't consume alcohol and I still use a filtered browser for example even though I feel no temptation to drink or visit inappropriate web sites. Nonetheless, I recognize that that is a part of who I am and I'd rather not take chances. Addiction is compulsive: anyone who's experienced compulsion understands how destructive it can be.
> 
> With that in mind, if ever I did struggle with porn, I would trust my wife to help me. Heck, she knows that I have a screen-blocking app and a filtered browser on my phone. There is no secret there.


That's some masterful avoiding of the question. The bolded part is a rather important part of that question.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

_Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
But what if it was your wife's behaviour that was (partly) the cause of turning to porn? *(Lack of sex and unwillingness to do anything about it).* Hypothetically._

Bolded - this was my ex-husband. I just shut down and went into a kind of sexual hibernation.

Is the question, is it justifiable to turn to pornography if your spouse isn't sexually available?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> We are very different in personality, in that he is a very clever man with a science PHd and often has his mind/thoughts in the research and work he is doing while I am more down to earth, sensible and practical.


I’m probably reading too much into it...but do I detect that you wished he devoted a little more time to you, and away from his work?



Diana7 said:


> In that way I guess we compliment each other very well. He is a man who is incredibly easy going, easy to please and patient, so that helps so much. To be honest its very easy being married to a man like him. He says the same of me but I don't think I am as easy as he is.:surprise:
> 
> Early on we had a lot to deal with with his ex and step kids etc, also his mother who tried to break us up when we went to see her in OZ, and we both also had a lot of baggage from our past long marriages and other horrible things that I had been though in life, so that wasn't an easy couple of years. However we were always strong together so we got though it.
> 
> ...



Blink twice if he’s neglecting you  only joking. I think perhaps by speaking only positively about your marriage (and religion), you practice ‘positive reinforcement’. I should try that...

Great to hear about positive marriages to be honest. After reading this site, I feel like should something happen to my marriage, I will never EVER get together with another person again. It’s just too depressing...And anyone who is not insane will most likely be already taken...
Although, ironically, people seem to do better the second time around (though that’s not what statistics confirm but it seems later in life, people are better at spotting red flags and knowing which are more suitable partners. They are also more mature in how they handle their issues. Perhaps that is not a correct observation.



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

minimalME said:


> _Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
> 
> But what if it was your wife's behaviour that was (partly) the cause of turning to porn? *(Lack of sex and unwillingness to do anything about it).* Hypothetically._
> 
> ...




Answering myself: I don’t know. These things are a chicken and egg situation. A bit like trying to work out the origin of life...What was the initial event that started it all? Maybe there wasn’t one. What caused the wife to stop wanting sex with her husband? Why is she LD? Is it just biology or is he a ****ty husband? Why is he a ****ty husband? Is he fed up with wife putting unreasonable expectations and demanding too much from the marriage? And so it goes...And I’m starting to have dialogues with myself which is a bit worrying. 🤪


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

And yeah, the problem is not so much what actually caused anything, but what the spouse THINKS caused it. It’s the stubbornness and unwillingness of a spouse to look at a situation from different angles that kills a marriage IMO. The older I get the more I realise how shaky and unreliable my point of view is...Bit depressing really. Because sometimes to get further in life, you need to be CONVINCED that your point of view is the correct one to have he confidence to execute difficult decisions. That’s why sociopaths tend to be at the top of their game and people with a healthy dose of doubt and introspection get a ****ty end of the stick...Though i shouldn’t complain.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Machjo said:


> I've read a few comments on these forums about people consuming porn in secret knowing that their spouse would not approve of it.
> 
> I understand that watching porn falls within the agreed-on boundaries among certain couples so I'm not addressing them here.
> 
> In those couples in which it falls outside of the agreed-on boundaries of the marriage, why do you do it? I understand porn addiction, but why do you fear asking your spouse for help? I would think your spouse would more appreciate your asking for help than suddenly catching you red-handed one day.




- The only reason I occasionally view porn and get it out of my system, is because of sexual mismatch. I am HD and Mrs.CuddleBug is LD.

- Of course, this isn't every day and more like once a month.

- I chose not to go out and cheat, so this is the lesser of evils so to speak.

- If I talk about sex, toys, maybe even porn with Mrs.CuddleBug, she gets very uncomfortable, so the discussion stops. I can talk about this no problem.

- I'm definitely not addicted to porn.

- I think in a relationship were the sex drives are similar, LD / LD or HD / HD, these issues would be non existent.

- Mrs.CuddleBug isn't a bad wife. On the contrary, quite the opposite. She's kind, loving, generous, faithful, very hard working career woman, close with her family, intelligent, and not easily swayed with material things like jewelry, shoes, clothes, etc. She is frugal and when there's a good deal, she buys more. Only issues I have with her is she's LD and needs to get in shape, losing about 100 lbs now. That's it. If wasn't for the sex drive and weight, she's nearly a perfect woman in my books.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> That's some masterful avoiding of the question. The bolded part is a rather important part of that question.


Each spouse is responsible for his own behaviour. I have a much higher sex drive than my wife does, but that does not excuse me from acting outside of the agreed-on boundaries of our marriage. Now my wife does not purposely withhold sex from me and might even freely and willingly give me more sex than she really wants to give me even though I would never try to coerce her into it just because she loves me. But I have gone through periods of abstinence with her none-the-less just because she wasn't in the mood and I had to learn to manage that. Though I've had to resort to very strange ways to manage it, I have always done so within the boundaries of our marriage and always openly with her and never in secret.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Machjo said:


> I've read a few comments on these forums about people consuming porn in secret knowing that their spouse would not approve of it.
> 
> I understand that watching porn falls within the agreed-on boundaries among certain couples so I'm not addressing them here.
> 
> In those couples in which it falls outside of the agreed-on boundaries of the marriage, why do you do it? I understand porn addiction, but why do you fear asking your spouse for help? I would think your spouse would more appreciate your asking for help than suddenly catching you red-handed one day.


*If a person is single, unattached, and is in a position of not "getting any," then I don't see a real problem with viewing it so long as it is done so under legal parameters!

But if they are married or encumbered, then the only way that they should be able to view such stuff is with the direct and unfettered permission of their significant other! For them to view the porn would be a strictlyw"satisfy yourself" endeavor!

Let's just take a hypothetical situation and say that one spouse or partner cannot have natural relations because of illness or for whatever reason, then the afflicted partner should give their partner either Ca
carte blanche to view it, but strictly for their very own sexual gratification without making or attempting to make physical or emotional sexual contact with other people!*


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Machjo said:


> Each spouse is responsible for his own behaviour. I have a much higher sex drive than my wife does, but that does not excuse me from acting outside of the agreed-on boundaries of our marriage. Now my wife does not purposely withhold sex from me and might even freely and willingly give me more sex than she really wants to give me even though I would never try to coerce her into it just because she loves me. But I have gone through periods of abstinence with her none-the-less just because she wasn't in the mood and I had to learn to manage that. Though I've had to resort to very strange ways to manage it, I have always done so within the boundaries of our marriage and always openly with her and never in secret.


Fair enough. Doesn't sound to me as though you have ever experienced the situation I particularly pointed out. 



Machjo said:


> I've read a few comments on these forums about people consuming porn in secret knowing that their spouse would not approve of it.
> 
> I understand that watching porn falls within the agreed-on boundaries among certain couples so I'm not addressing them here.
> 
> In those couples in which it falls outside of the agreed-on boundaries of the marriage, why do you do it? I understand porn addiction, but why do you fear asking your spouse for help? I would think your spouse would more appreciate your asking for help than suddenly catching you red-handed one day.


Quite frankly, I have never heard of porn being a discussion of an agreed - on boundary. Nor is this something that I would EVER agree to. I'm sure it happens, it's never something I have experienced though.

I once had my xw walk in on me once. She didn't like it at all and had a kitten, so to speak. She flew of into a rage and slept in on the couch, and it was right after work and we were getting ready for bed.* I had made an advance on her and she rejected me.* Before she went to sleep, she said she was going to town and that I had better be there when she got back. There was no comments of we needed to talk or anything like that, just I had better damn well do what she told me. We had one car at the time. 

We got up that afternoon and as soon she left, I left. I don't know what time she got back to the house and didn't care. I strolled back in about an hour before time to go to work and she started in. She ranted and raved for about 10 minutes and I kept my mouth shut. She called me everything but a human being. When she finally relented, I asked if she was finished, to which her reply was I haven't even started. I told her to give me 2 min, to which I responded. 

We are in a monogamous sexual relationship. The basis of this relationship is predicated on the fact that we are each other's primary sexual outlet. To the extent that we are each other primary sexual outlet, when we are at a miss-match it puts strain on said relationship. My utmost priority is for us to have mutually enjoyable experiences, but when I make advances and am rejected, this tells me that you are not interested. That being said, once you reject the chance, you no longer get a say in the matter. I will remain monogamous, but I will take care of my self if that needs to be the case. If you don't like it, there's the damned door. You will not brow beat me like you have for the past 10 min, because I kick the damned door of its hinges. I have said all I'm gonna say on the matter.

My views haven't changed to this day. A spouse that expects to control their spouse sexuality regardless of their sexual output, isn't a loving spouse, they are a ****ing dictator!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Windwalker said:


> I once had my xw walk in on me once.



Much better than having your mother in law walk in on you though.
And offering you a helping hand. 

Can’t remember now if the last bit was part of the movie plot or not...



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Windwalker said:


> I told her to give me 2 min, to which I responded.



I would have used the two minutes more productively (using my spare hand 🤚 )

I think what you said was sensible. They can’t really have it both ways, withhold and then complain when their husband uses porn.
Pretty sure my wife is often relieved when I do it...Though she will not show it and pretend to be mildly disappointed with me instead. Sometimes I’m not sure that people are aware that what they want and what they THINK they want can be two different things.




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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

Windwalker said:


> Fair enough. Doesn't sound to me as though you have ever experienced the situation I particularly pointed out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough. I will agree that your wife's reaction was counterproductive. Though porn lies outside the boundaries of our marriage, I can say that, if I caught my wife watching porn, however much it might hurt me, I can't imagine myself addressing her angrily over the matter because I don't see how that could be productive. I can certainly see myself asking her why she does it and then try to help her stop by consulting on an acceptable solution with my help if she needs it. I'm not denying that it could be emotionally painful, but I still wouldn't see any benefit to just chewing her for it.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

inmyprime said:


> Much better than having your mother in law walk in on you though.
> And offering you a helping hand.
> 
> Can’t remember now if the last bit was part of the movie plot or not...
> ...


Err.....

Thanks for the most disturbing thought in all of human history.

Think I would rather have a handy from Edward Scissorhands.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Machjo said:


> Fair enough. I will agree that your wife's reaction was counterproductive. Though porn lies outside the boundaries of our marriage, I can say that, if I caught my wife watching porn, however much it might hurt me, I can't imagine myself addressing her angrily over the matter because I don't see how that could be productive. I can certainly see myself asking her why she does it and then try to help her stop by consulting on an acceptable solution with my help if she needs it. I'm not denying that it could be emotionally painful, but I still wouldn't see any benefit to just chewing her for it.


Lol.
You would have to know the Ex-wife. Controlling was her middle name. Every day since divorce has been a blessing.

For those marriages that agree to a no porn marriage, I would agree with you. However, not every believes that way.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Machjo said:


> I've read a few comments on these forums about people consuming porn in secret knowing that their spouse would not approve of it.
> 
> I understand that watching porn falls within the agreed-on boundaries among certain couples so I'm not addressing them here.
> 
> In those couples in which it falls outside of the agreed-on boundaries of the marriage, why do you do it? I understand porn addiction, but why do you fear asking your spouse for help? I would think your spouse would more appreciate your asking for help than suddenly catching you red-handed one day.


Why does anyone do anything? Because they derive some kind of satisfaction out of it or they wouldn't do it.

My husband isn't an impressionable teenage boy who needs my _permission_ to look at porn. I couldn't imagine playing 'mommy' and telling him he isn't 'allowed' to look at porn. Good lord, what comes next? Telling him he has to wear blinders? Telling him what he can fantasize about?

I have bigger and better things to worry about than that nonsense.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> ...but the whole porn industry involves real live people who are someone's child, grandchild, sibling, partner, mother. These are real people who are being lusted over by goodness knows who. I think more of people than to take advantage of that.


And most of them are laughing all the way to the bank...

Not everyone is a victim.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

minimalME said:


> Is the question, is it justifiable to turn to pornography if your spouse isn't sexually available?


If that's the question, the answer is unequivocally yes if the answer to the second question of "should I stay in this marriage" is also yes, for whatever justification you need.

A sexual partner has a limited power to tell you what to do with your own body in the best situation, in my opinion, and limited only to its effect on your sexual relationship. A sexually unavailable partner has as much right to make demands on you as does the mailman.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

As a fifty-something year old man, I could see having a discussion about masturbation, porn use, and sexual availability if I were ever back in the dating scene and thinking about marriage. But that comes from three decades of understanding why these things are important.

As a 21 year old getting married for the first time? Get f'ing real. That is a conversation I never had with my bride to be because there isn't a conceivable universe in which I had the life experience to even know it was necessary. Throw a little good ol' fashioned Church guilt into the mix, and what do you have? I didn't even realize that my wife never masturbated until long after our wedding day. 

Sometimes a Democrat marries a Republican, and you just have to agree not to discuss politics at the dinner table. If porn use is a brick wall for you, then you damn well better be _extraordinarily_ clear before the vows are exchanged that you won't tolerate it, and you'd STILL better be prepared to discover that your spouse was trying not to hurt your feelings when he breaks that agreement to which he thought he could commit but faltered 1, 5, or 10 years down the road when the two of you start arguing over sex. 

And for the love of god, please stop trying to convince me that you only care about the confines of your own marriage when you expend hours and hours on every thread in which this topic surfaces trying to convince everyone that you have the One True Way, no only for your marriage but for theirs as well. The BS smells from all the way over here.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Cletus said:


> And for the love of god, please stop trying to convince me that you only care about the confines of your own marriage when you expend hours and hours on every thread in which this topic surfaces trying to convince everyone that you have the One True Way, no only for your marriage but for theirs as well. The BS smells from all the way over here.


You're being quite fiesty about the Christians today. 

There are tons of threads where non-Christians tell people what to do and present their way as the best way.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

minimalME said:


> You're being quite fiesty about the Christians today.
> 
> There are tons of threads where non-Christians tell people what to do and present their way as the best way.


I didn't quote a Christian in my response. I didn't use the term anywhere in the text. I didn't even allude to it indirectly - hell, I specifically used a political analogy. 

So why is it that you think I'm singling out Christians here?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I didn't quote a Christian in my response. I didn't use the term anywhere in the text. I didn't even allude to it indirectly - hell, I specifically used a political analogy.
> 
> So why is it that you think I'm singling out Christians here?


So you're not? Okay. I apologize.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Why does anyone do anything? Because they derive some kind of satisfaction out of it or they wouldn't do it.
> 
> My husband isn't an impressionable teenage boy who needs my _permission_ to look at porn. I couldn't imagine playing 'mommy' and telling him he isn't 'allowed' to look at porn. Good lord, what comes next? Telling him he has to wear blinders? Telling him what he can fantasize about?
> 
> I have bigger and better things to worry about than that nonsense.


That's why it's the best thing for a man who uses porn to be with a women who doesn't care. Others do care and see it as mental adultery, so they need to find a partner who see it the same way. There are far less men to chose from, but its worth waiting.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

minimalME said:


> So you're not? Okay. I apologize.


Look, I have a long history here of being skeptical about anyone who purports to have universal answers that everyone should apply to their marriage. 

On this topic, one particular class of poster personifies that position more than the others. By your own works will ye be judged. It's because of how they're behaving, not because of what they believe. 

The other post to which you're referring has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with the individual behaving as a reprehensible *******.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

minimalME said:


> There are tons of threads where non-Christians tell people what to do and present their way as the best way.


They are no less irritating. Everyone of course thinks that they have the right way. Some are more inclined than others to see any other alternative as possible.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cletus said:


> As a fifty-something year old man, I could see having a discussion about masturbation, porn use, and sexual availability if I were ever back in the dating scene and thinking about marriage. But that comes from three decades of understanding why these things are important.
> 
> As a 21 year old getting married for the first time? Get f'ing real. That is a conversation I never had with my bride to be because there isn't a conceivable universe in which I had the life experience to even know it was necessary. Throw a little good ol' fashioned Church guilt into the mix, and what do you have? I didn't even realize that my wife never masturbated until long after our wedding day.
> 
> ...


My marriage and family have first place in my life, always. Also I post in all sorts of sections of this forum about all sorts of things. You need to get the facts straight. 

Why is it such an issue that not every one agrees with your view? Why get angry about it?

Few 21 year olds get married these days. The average age for marriage is now about 30 with most people living together for years first and many have several partners before that. Secondly, things are very different now than they were when you or I were that age, internet porn use is rife among teens, they know all about it and its not a big deal for them these days to talk about it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> My marriage and family have first place in my life, always. Also I post in all sorts of sections of this forum about all sorts of things. You need to get the facts straight.
> 
> Why is it such an issue that not every one agrees with your view? Why get angry about it?


Because your way is not right for everyone. 

I have no problem that you run your marriage the way you do or that you have the boundaries that you have. The very first post you ever made to me in this forum was essentially to say that I had a sham of a marriage because my opinion differed from yours on this very subject. 

Look to the timber in your own eye.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Machjo said:


> I've read a few comments on these forums about people consuming porn in secret knowing that their spouse would not approve of it.
> 
> I understand that watching porn falls within the agreed-on boundaries among certain couples so I'm not addressing them here.
> 
> In those couples in which it falls outside of the agreed-on boundaries of the marriage, why do you do it? I understand porn addiction, but why do you fear asking your spouse for help? I would think your spouse would more appreciate your asking for help than suddenly catching you red-handed one day.


You are asking why would a man still use porn to masturbate and why would a woman not just agree to engage in better/frequent sex? In that particular scenario I think both spouses probably have limited maturity towards sex and sexuality. A female spouse may be trapped in the idea that marriage is shaped like a Disney film and a male spouse may be limited within a sense of shame and guilt for him to be able to communicate effectively with his wife regarding his sexual needs AND (most importantly) desires. 

Even having a boundary of 'no porn' is in itself limiting and shaming, even if done unconsciously. And lets be honest...there is nothing more arousing than watching something that is taboo and 'naughty'. So those boundaries of 'no porn' are unlikely to be adhered to unless you have rocking sex every day for 60 years. 

The idea of a couple agreeing before marriage that porn is a no-no is frankly ridiculous. How can anyone possibly promise such a thing unless you are saint? It's a recipe for hurt and resentment and you would be playing with fire. 

I am sure there are some couples that genuinely have no interest in porn - but most people cannot possibly promise any such thing. And I think the lies and false promises are far more damaging to a marriage than porn.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

...


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## SkiLifer (Jun 3, 2018)

I watch a fair amount of porn but my wife knows and is okay with it. She watches porn as well, just not as frequently


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

One obvious circumstance returned to here is if the W says no sex tonight/this week etc. it's not her call if H takes things in hand to resolve. 

Most men are visual. As long as not a replacement for sex with W, putting all this together, what visual stimulation is used if any is Hs call.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> One obvious circumstance returned to here is if the W says no sex tonight/this week etc. it's not her call if H takes things in hand to resolve.
> 
> Most men are visual. As long as not a replacement for sex with W, putting all this together, what visual stimulation is used if any is Hs call.


Its quite possible for him to masturbate without porn. No its not his call. He is married and promised to be faithful and forsake all others. Porn isn't forsaking all others.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Its quite possible for him to masturbate without porn. No its not his call. He is married and promised to be faithful and forsake all others. Porn isn't forsaking all others.


I agree with you. The however is if H was turned down by W 10 times in a row that will cause it's own issues which will cause H to go off the rails and in reality he'll possibly turn to Penthouse or Playboy, so to speak. My point is he shouldn't let rejections crush him if he's truly being a good H that's in a pickle re sex with W.

I guarantee if he Ms he's thinking about a naked woman.

It's a hard question. *no pun intended.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I agree with you. The however is if H was turned down by W 10 times in a row that will cause it's own issues which will cause H to go off the rails and in reality he'll possibly turn to Penthouse or Playboy, so to speak. My point is he shouldn't let rejections crush him if he's truly being a good H that's in a pickle re sex with W.
> 
> I guarantee if he Ms he's thinking about a naked woman.
> 
> It's a hard question. *no pun intended.


I agree that its up to each of us to make sure that we meet our spouses sexual needs, but there are times when thats not possible. Porn isn't the solution in my opinion.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I agree that its up to each of us to make sure that we meet our spouses sexual needs, but there are times when thats not possible. Porn isn't the solution in my opinion.


And I do agree with you.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I agree that its up to each of us to make sure that we meet our spouses sexual needs, but there are times when thats not possible. Porn isn't the solution in my opinion.





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> And I do agree with you.


I agree as well.

Since there's lots of other options like thinking about having sex with whoever, in ones head while masturbating. Looking at erotica instead of pornography while masturbating. And or having sex with others instead. All of which can work when, one isn't getting there sexual wants satiated via their spouse.

Even reading Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell, can be a bit exciting as well when Winston and Julia get together.

Plus when remembered dreams can be nice, especially when they are very sexual like I have fairly frequently.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> I agree as well.
> 
> Since there's lots of other options like thinking about having sex with whoever, in ones head while masturbating. Looking at erotica instead of pornography while masturbating. And or having sex with others instead. All of which can work when, one isn't getting there sexual wants satiated via their spouse.
> 
> ...


Committing adultery is even worse than porn. I dont think its right that I think of another man apart from my husband in a sexual way.


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