# Emotional affair vs physical affair



## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

I have read many places that many folks think that an EA is just as bad if not worse than an PA. Of course both combined is the worst.

But for me personally, I would have a much easier time dealing with a strictly EA. Maybe it's different for women who have been betrayed by an EA?

For me, there's nothing worse than the fact that some as*hole had his **** in my wife. Utterly horrifying.

Thoughts?


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> I have read many places that many folks think that an EA is just as bad if not worse than an PA. Of course both combined is the worst.
> 
> But for me personally, I would have a much easier time dealing with a strictly EA. Maybe it's different for women who have been betrayed by an EA?
> 
> ...


I have to agree the pa in my mind is so much worse. But considering my ww had both it does matter much anymore.


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

I am soooo glad you started this thread! I have been struggling with this question for a long time. I think it is better to live with what almost happened than to live with what really happened.

My WH had an EA that turned into a PA so imgine my pain. A whole year of separation that has ended bc he asked the judge for a break at our D hearing and has been asking for R during the last 6 months. I am trying but the thought and the knowledge of what they did haunts me, specially in bed and during intimate moments. You can read my thread.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

The-Deceived said:


> I have read many places that many folks think that an EA is just as bad if not worse than an PA. Of course both combined is the worst.
> 
> But for me personally, I would have a much easier time dealing with a strictly EA. Maybe it's different for women who have been betrayed by an EA?
> 
> ...


This conversation comes up regularly and in the past your perception has echoed true. Men tend to have a more difficult time with a PA and women tend to have a more difficult time with an EA. I am a BS as my wife had an EA. I can tell you that it was devastating to me emotionally and nearly sunk the marriage. I, like you, would have had a very difficult time even considering reconciliation had it gone physical.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Im with you.

Basically wife PA is another man inseminating my territory. BTW yes the inverse is also true. You ARE your wifes territory.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I did a thread like this about eight months ago after my wifes four month EA,old hs bf.
They did meet up a few times in public but she got scared and ran away.
The EA is real rough on me,just past my one year DD anniversary.
Finally more good days than bad but the bad days are terrible.
So we are trying to R and its getting there slowly.
If it had went physical I dont see anyway I could ever be with my wife again.
Knowing that a semi-homeless twice convicted felon had been all over her and in her....no way.
She'd be damaged goods,I could never R after a PA.
EA is hard enought to try and get over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Hope you don't mind, I added a poll!


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Amplexor said:


> Hope you don't mind, I added a poll!


:smthumbup:


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> Hope you don't mind, I added a poll!


Good idea
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

calvin said:


> Knowing that a semi-homeless twice convicted felon had been all over her and in her....no way.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A semi-homeless felon was all over and in my WW. It's as bad as you imagine it to be.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

The-Deceived said:


> I have read many places that many folks think that an EA is just as bad if not worse than an PA. Of course both combined is the worst.


I do not, thanks to S4E's blunt response to my equality of actions statement. My wife had an EA and I'm still partially angry. 
I think they are equally devastating to a point, but like you said there is another level I am missing.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Regret had a 5 year long physical affair.

Some days it just f'ng sucks knowing that.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Regret had a 5 year long physical affair.
> 
> Some days it just f'ng sucks knowing that.


Are you reconciled?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I can't answer the poll because I don't think either is 'worse'. They're both marriage killers. They both wreak havoc on the BS.

There's also different kinds of PA. My husband never had PIV sex with anyone, but I still consider what he did to be a PA. both before and after he hired the hooker for a BJ. A BJ is definitely a PA, but what he did up to that point wouldn't be considered so by some. Seeking what he was seeking is just as bad as actually doing it in my mind. And what is an EA, if not seeking to have a PA?


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

LanieB said:


> My husband had an EA/PA, so I'm not sure how to separate that. I think I could deal better with just an EA, but I have no way of knowing for sure. I would think that with a PA, the mind movies would be way more destructive for the BS. At least with an EA, no one got naked, right?????


OMG you have no idea how much the mind movies affect you in and out of bed! Horrible just horrible, and what they do to your self esteem (even when you know the AP looks like a ****zu). You are right there and then you start thinking of what they did and how they did it, argh!


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> And what is an EA, if not seeking to have a PA?


:iagree:


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Grey Goose said:


> OMG you have no idea how much the mind movies affect you in and out of bed! Horrible just horrible, and what they do to your self esteem (even when you know the AP looks like a ****zu). You are right there and then you start thinking of what they did and how they did it, argh!


A ****zu, huh?


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> A ****zu, huh?


Sorry trying to work at the same time and I am in a conference call! And this thing keeps blipping me bc it thinks I am saying caca! I mean the dogs.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

My ExH had EAs back in the 90s before they were recognised as such. Still, my distrust of him since he didn't see that he was doing anything wrong had sunk the marriage. by the time he had a PA (with someone completely out of our social circle, btw), it was clear it was an exit affair. 

I do believe that EAs are preludes to PAs. Men do eventually want sex even if they might like the hunt and will put up with it.

My fiancé admitted to going in for the kiss with his EA and yes, I now understand that he was letting her know that he wanted sex from her, sooner rather than later. Which most likely let her know that she would not be able to string him out too much longer.

What brought me to this message board is the EA that my (future) fiancé had and I knew that despite his cover that they were "just friends" that if he ever saw her again, our relationship would be very difficult for us to continue. 

So I became proactive.

Despite popular culture in which you're expected to be one of those "cool" people who doesn't mind letting your partner hang out with opposite friends -- while you don't -- I decided to take the heat, if there were to be any -- and tell him, if you want to keep this friend around, then you and I can be friends as well....... (implicit message, so I can go off and date other men to find a real boyfriend like your what "friend" has done already.)

After all that, I don't want to spend anymore time trying to decide whether an EA is worse than a PA. they're both bad.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

I know, it's silly they blocked that!



Grey Goose said:


> Sorry trying to work at the same time and I am in a conference call! And this thing keeps blipping me bc it thinks I am saying caca! I mean the dogs.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I really do think that one isn't worse than the other. However, I DID vote because I think PA has a slight "edge" over EA, IMO. But that is, of course, just my opinion. I have days I remember those texts I read and it hurts, and I am sure he has days he remembers the emails he read. But if it had ever gotten to either of us having any form of sex with someone else? It would have been the end.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> Are you reconciled?


It isn't reconcilED... it is reconcilING. It takes more than a few months to fully reconcile.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

In an EA no one may have gotten naked, but that's the whole point, isn't it?? Whether the WS or BS admits it or not.

Maybe some WS's can chime in here? I know my husband wanted to get naked with the women he communicated with. I think communicating explicit sexual things and exchanging pornographic pics is a PA, not an EA, even if you never meet in person. And if it never went that far, why didn't it? Did you just get caught in time?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

BH here. Both combined is the worst. And the PA is hard to deal with. But you rarely get a woman in just a PA - usually it's accompanied by an EA - that's certainly my experience and what I read in these forums too. So it's hard to answer, from my direct experience.

In terms of recovery, I believe the EA is what makes it difficult. For me, if it was strictly sex - no emotional attachment - I think I would have an easier time understanding it and I think it would be easier for a marriage to recover. The "fog" is associated with the emotional aspect of an affair.

Once a person is in the "fog" it is impossible to do anything until they come out.


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## Labcoat (Aug 12, 2012)

PA without question. How is it even truly possible to have a PA without any emotional elements whatsoever. It's like asking which is worse a) breaking, or b) breaking and entering?

More over, who's ever contracted an STD or gotten pregnant in the throws of an emotional affair?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> In an EA no one may have gotten naked, but that's the whole point, isn't it?? Whether the WS or BS admits it or not.
> 
> Maybe some WS's can chime in here? I know my husband wanted to get naked with the women he communicated with. I think communicating explicit sexual things and exchanging pornographic pics is a PA, not an EA, even if you never meet in person. *And if it never went that far, why didn't it? Did you just get caught in time?*


I can answer for both my husband and myself... proximity. I truly believe that the reason neither of ours went physical was because there was no way we could ever meet in person. However, even when given the opportunity around here, the idea was repulsive.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> I can answer for both my husband and myself... proximity. I truly believe that the reason neither of ours went physical was because there was no way we could ever meet in person. However, even when given the opportunity around here, the idea was repulsive.


So you classify both your affairs as EA's, right? Did either of you ever communicate sexual things, pictures, sext, that type of thing? When you say 'never went physical', what does that mean?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> So you classify both your affairs as EA's, right? Did either of you ever communicate sexual things, pictures, sext, that type of thing? When you say 'never went physical', what does that mean?


Hope, I'm aware that you would view sexting and any sexual emails as PA. My husband and I agree, together, that those would still be classified as EA. PA, for us, would be physical contact, specifically physical sexual contact of any kind. When I say "never went physical" I mean that there was no physical contact. Again, we agree, for us at least, that for it to be PA, it would be physical contact. But yes, sexual things were discussed with the APs.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> Are you reconciled?


Dday was March 6, 2012. We have stayed together and are working on reconciliation. I'm of the mindset right now that this is a continuing process and don't know if the word will ever truly have a past tense.


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## StarGazer101 (Jan 26, 2013)

My WH had an EA leading into a PA lasting in total nearly 3 years. I *hate* the thought of every *single* second they spent together. I will not ask for intimate details, I know what happens in bed. 

The killer fact though is that he loved her.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

I'm a female. 

Personally, I think an EA is worse. Knowing that my husband can't talk to me about his problems and has to confide in a stranger, for me, is heartbreaking. 

But then a PA is just as bad. Because he's obviously sexually attracted to this other woman and not you! 

Confusing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Hope, I'm aware that you would view sexting and any sexual emails as PA. My husband and I agree, together, that those would still be classified as *PA*. PA, for us, would be physical contact, specifically physical sexual contact of any kind. When I say "never went physical" I mean that there was no physical contact. Again, we agree, for us at least, that for it to be PA, it would be physical contact. But yes, sexual things were discussed with the APs.


You mean EA there, right?

OK, so what I am trying to figure out here is, if it was sexual in nature, what difference it makes whether you ever met up in person? The intent was still there, wasn't it? Or wasn't it? I don't know. I am asking.

I find it hard to follow threads like this where everyone is throwing EA and PA around, when they mean very different things to different people. It's no wonder we can never come to a consensus!


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

My wife had an EA that eventually turned PA, so it's hard to separate the two.

I feel like if there's no emotional connection, and it's purely physical - think one night stand, sexting or sexual chats on the net with strangers - then it's possibly easier to recover from, if both parties want R. Still devastating, not trying to diminish the consequences of it.

With emotional attachment - EA/PA or EA - I feel like it causes more damage (or often a fatal blow) to the marriage. There's the fog to deal with, which I don't think would be as present in a pure PA. And it takes much more effort (180, exposing, etc) to try to pull the WS out of it, and even then it may often not be enough.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> It's no wonder we can never come to a consensus!


Sure we can Hope! Cheaters suck. Consensus struck! :smthumbup:


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Im with you.
> 
> Basically wife PA is another man inseminating my territory. BTW yes the inverse is also true. You ARE your wifes territory.


Well, an EA is another woman inseminating my territory- my H's heart and mind.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

I agree with rsersen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> You mean EA there, right?
> 
> OK, so what I am trying to figure out here is, if it was sexual in nature, what difference it makes whether you ever met up in person? The intent was still there, wasn't it? Or wasn't it? I don't know. I am asking.
> 
> I find it hard to follow threads like this where everyone is throwing EA and PA around, when they mean very different things to different people. It's no wonder we can never come to a consensus!


Yes, I meant EA. I fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out, and glad you understood what I was saying. 

Intent...maybe? I honestly can't say for sure. Really, there was no intent from the beginning. If the intent was to just have sex with someone, that could have been done with someone here. I think I felt my AP was "safe" because 1. he lived in a different country and 2. he had no way to obtain a passport... neither did I, for that matter. My husband, it was because there was such a distance that we weren't even communicating well anymore. So, intent? The intent, from the beginning, was to have someone to talk to, when we weren't speaking to each other. Doesn't excuse it. 

And yes, I agree... it's hard to come to a consensus about what constitutes an EA and what constitutes a PA. I know some would consider racy/naked picture exchange to be PA, but if I ever learned that my husband sent any to his AP (no, as far as I know, he did not), I would STILL classify it as EA. PA, to me, is physical contact. I know, there are others who disagree with that. But I also feel that it is still EA, even if the intent was there. To me, it becomes PA when there is physical touching.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

They are both horrible. But a PA to me is an EA that progressed. A ONS or a PA would be complete deal breaker for me. An EA? It depends.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Intent...maybe? I honestly can't say for sure. Really, there was no intent from the beginning. If the intent was to just have sex with someone, that could have been done with someone here. I think I felt my AP was "safe" because 1. he lived in a different country and 2. he had no way to obtain a passport... neither did I, for that matter.


So what you're saying is kind of the same thing guys keep saying about why they look at porn - it's all fantasy and there's no chance it could ever go beyond fantasy? It generated mind movies for you? I'm talking about the physical aspect of it here, not the emotional. Because to communicate in a sexual manner, if it isn't because you eventually wanted to take it physical in person, must just be for titillation, right? Or was it something else?

Sorry I seem to be picking on you, but you're the only one answering my questions


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> They are both horrible. But a PA to me is an EA that progressed.


Not necessarily. A guy can hire a hooker and there's nothing EA about it.


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## NotSo (Jul 23, 2012)

My wife had an EA (still is in the fog and I'm filing for D tomorrow morning) and I just voted that I thought it was worse than a PA. I am only assuming it would be worse, simply because I haven't experienced a PA.

What I do know is the things that an EA does, it mentally messes with you. It's like asking what is worse - abusing someone mentally or physically. The mental aspect of an EA - what is shared about you, your wife, your children, your family, your marriage, etc... with a complete stranger to me. I even told my wife, I would rather it just be a physical thing of someone humping you...at least then I would know what I could do about it. I could have sparked things up in the bedroom or I could come to the realization that she was just a slvt who wanted sex form others for the physical aspect??

But since it was an EA, I was in the dark about not knowing what I did wrong to cause this, or what I could do differently not for this to happen again.

The mental anxiety, I believe is more difficult to get over. BUT, I tend to believe that most PA's begin with an EA, at least was the path of my W and OM.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

NotSo said:


> It's like asking what is worse - abusing someone mentally or physically.


This is an excellent analogy.



NotSo said:


> I would rather it just be a physical thing of someone humping you...at least then I would know what I could do about it. I could have sparked things up in the bedroom or I could come to the realization that she was just a slvt who wanted sex form others for the physical aspect??
> 
> But since it was an EA, I was in the dark about not knowing what I did wrong to cause this, or what I could do differently not for this to happen again.


Hmmm, well I can't say I agree with this. There wasn't really anything you could have done about it. If she had cheated physically it would NOT have been because you sucked in the bedroom, and if that's what you believe, you're wrong. And you certainly didn't cause it!!! Heavens, you've been here long enough to know that, surely!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Maricha75 said:


> I think I felt my AP was *"safe"* because 1. he lived in a different country and 2. he had no way to obtain a passport...


Interesting as that is the same word my wife used to explain how she got involved. I think that is what can make an EA so dangerous. Because it is a fantasy (Another word she used) and if there is no physical contact then the WS has not crossed a line. When she finally got beyond the denial and realized she was actually in love with him it really shook her when she thought about would have happened if it had been "local". She feared she would have crossed that line but it didn't register with her what would have happened months prior when he was looking to travel to our city for an event. Quite frankly I've always felt she was played and that the ultimate goal for the AP was to bang her. Had I not discovered it, it very well could have happened.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

BH here - I voted EA is worse. 

My stbxw had an EA with a coworker that turned PA. She claims they never had sex, it was only kissing but I don't buy it. She even called it an "EA with touching". pft!

For me the most devastating part was the level of dishonesty, evasiveness, gas lighting and blame shifting that happened. I believe these are more prevalent in an EA because of the fog. 

She was more worried about losing her "friend" than losing her husband and daughter. If it were just a PA she would be more worried about getting caught. This was not the case due to the EA. She did not want to admit anything out of fear of me confronting posOM, exposing her lies, and as a result losing him. 

As soon as I did he pulled back and she fell into depression. She was in the same house as her daughter and her loving husband (who was willing to go to MC and try to work through it), completely uninterested in either of us, but was devastated because she lost her "friend". 

THAT is a traumatic blow. Much more traumatic than imagining them in bed.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> I have read many places that many folks think that an EA is just as bad if not worse than an PA. Of course both combined is the worst.
> 
> But for me personally, I would have a much easier time dealing with a strictly EA. Maybe it's different for women who have been betrayed by an EA?
> 
> ...


I would phrase this another way ... nothing would be worse than my wife opening her legs and inviting some a$$hole to put his **** inside her.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> I have read many places that many folks think that an EA is just as bad if not worse than an PA. Of course both combined is the worst.
> 
> But for me personally, I would have a much easier time dealing with a strictly EA. Maybe it's different for women who have been betrayed by an EA?
> 
> ...


The problem I see is that a PA is more often than not preceded by an EA ... so it's hard to distinguish between the two.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> So what you're saying is kind of the same thing guys keep saying about why they look at porn - it's all fantasy and there's no chance it could ever go beyond fantasy? It generated mind movies for you? I'm talking about the physical aspect of it here, not the emotional. Because to communicate in a sexual manner, if it isn't because you eventually wanted to take it physical in person, must just be for titillation, right? Or was it something else?
> 
> Sorry I seem to be picking on you, but you're the only one answering my questions


I guess it could be viewed that way? That it could be viewed as reading/writing erotica starring oneself, I guess? The thing is, when emotions ARE involved, I don't see the physical aspect, as you call it. And since I don't watch porn, and neither does my husband, there's no way to compare, for us. As for the communication itself... I'm not sure I can really explain it. Honestly, anything I could say would just sound like I am making excuses for my actions, and I'm not. I felt wanted, that someone cared whether I was happy or not. At that time, and even before, I wasn't feeling that from my husband. It was about the conversations, someone to talk to, someone who told me I was sexy or beautiful, or any other complimentary adjective, when I wasn't hearing those words from my husband. I know, I should have spoken up to my husband, but I didn't.

Sorry, Hope, I know I probably didn't even come CLOSE to answering your question. But for me, I just can't compare something with an emotional connection, to porn. TBH, I know I say it likely would have escalated if we knew the APs IRL, but I really can't even say that for certain. It could just as easily have NOT occurred at all, if we lived anywhere near each other, or were capable of meeting. 

I think, the one thing we can agree on is the fact that communication, whether in person (physical) or not, is cheating if it is done in secret/not something you want your spouse to be privy to in any way.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

If my husband had drunken sex with a stripper I would find that much easier to forgive than if he was obessed, admired, loved, communicated daily with some woman and shared all his hopes and dreams. One is meaningless the other replaces the emotional relationship I have with him.


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## NotSo (Jul 23, 2012)

Hope - I hear ya and yes I understand that - I was just trying to find some grounds for a solely PA based affair. I think that if someone is being sexually satisfied at home they would be much less likely looking for sexual gratification outside of the home. To what ever that level may be to themselves such as the quality and quantity of sex.

Now, if an individual is not being sexually satisfied at home, to whatever they deem to be satisfying, I believe the chances for a PA increase. I, personally, would then know what to do to take the steps required to keep my W from looking outside of the marriage to be sexually satiated.

With the EA, where do I begin? Was I not emotionally there for her - and in what aspect? Did I do what I do and try to solve everything - instead of just being there to "listen"? Was I not home enough or when I was home did I not do enough around the house? Why in the Fvck was she so bored with her life? ETC...ETC....ETC...

Everyone needs to be careful when they say "there is nothing you could have done" to prevent your WS from cheating. There is no GOOD/MORAL/ETHICAL excuse for cheating...BUT, there are reasons behind the Betrayal...I just think the PA is easier to explain?? I could be full of sh1t to?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

The thing for me is that a pure PA (no emotional attachment), while devastating and bad, is easier for me to understand. Like scratching an itch. Not really, but I get that. Still devastating - but recoverable, in my opinion. Maybe one of the reasons I think this is that my stbxw never any other partners (until her affair). I try to put myself in her shoes and I kind of get it (she was unhappy and that led to a curiosity). NO EXCUSE, but I understand it. The OM is like a dildo in sense. Used strictly for momentary pleasure.

An EA violates the safety of a marriage. Thoughts I may have confided to my stbxw are now being shared with a stranger. Perhaps even mocked. My thoughts and opinions are placed secondary to the POSOM's. My shared secrets are no longer secret. My stbxw's heart races when she receives a text from him. How do you recover from this? How do you even begin to understand it? 


Combine the two and it's game over, unless you are BOTH very committed to R.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

EA's are plenty painful no doubt but when a spouse chooses to go physical then they are all the way in and youre left way behind.
We were in MC while my wife was in her EA,she kissed him,no tongue,I know what you all are thinking but its true.
What really gets to me is that I was seriously thinking about doing my self in.I mean for good.
My wife would'nt help me,she told me to go to the doctor.
A old man stopped me,asked if I had kids and asked if my parents were still alive (they are) 
and if they needed me,I was to host my Moms birthday party the next day like I always do.
If he hadnt of pulled over I'd be a blip in the paper.
That stranger at least cared about me,my wife,not so much then.
I guess I change my vote,the EA took a huge toll on me.
Sorry,bad day today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

I wonder if it's even possible for a woman to have a PA without an EA? I'm sure there are some rare cases (sex addicts for example), but in general I would assume with women it always starts as an EA and sometimes progresses to a PA. Thoughts?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

curlysue321 said:


> If my husband had drunken sex with a stripper I would find that much easier to forgive than if he was obessed, admired, loved, communicated daily with some woman and shared all his hopes and dreams. One is meaningless the other replaces the emotional relationship I have with him.


This.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

NotSo said:


> Everyone needs to be careful when they say "there is nothing you could have done" to prevent your WS from cheating. There is no GOOD/MORAL/ETHICAL excuse for cheating...BUT, there are reasons behind the Betrayal...I just think the PA is easier to explain?? I could be full of sh1t to?


Affairs can happen in good marriages too. I think it has a lot to do with the WS's sense of self worth. 

Sure, if the BS is not loving, attentive, available, whatever enough then the WS will feel unsatisfied and worthless. This results in them seeking satisfaction (emotional or physical) elsewhere or at least being open to it when it comes.

BUT that is because they have put their own self worth and happiness in the hands of their spouse. There were times in my M when I felt unloved by my spouse AND had propositions. I did not take them because I still had my sense of self and would not compromise my core values.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> Interesting as that is the same word my wife used to explain how she got involved. I think that is what can make an EA so dangerous. Because it is a fantasy (Another word she used) and if there is no physical contact then the WS has not crossed a line. When she finally got beyond the denial and realized she was actually in love with him it really shook her when she thought about would have happened if it had been "local". She feared she would have crossed that line but it didn't register with her what would have happened months prior when he was looking to travel to our city for an event. Quite frankly I've always felt she was played and that the ultimate goal for the AP was to bang her. Had I not discovered it, it very well could have happened.


I can't even "like" your post because it sounds very much like my rationalizations... and I agree with you about the AP. He pretended to care about what was going on with my husband and myself. I truly believe that his ultimate goal was sex. Of course, I didn't think that THEN.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

A couple years befor my WW's EA I asked about MC three times,she refused.
She did bring up her old hs bf at least twice a year during our marrige,telling me how he was innocent and should not be in prison....ugh.
Sometime I feel like saying the hell with it.
When there is an old connection with your spouse and a past flame it just really messes things up bad.
To try and get them out of it is almost impossible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> I wonder if it's even possible for a woman to have a PA without an EA? I'm sure there are some rare cases (sex addicts for example), but in general I would assume with women it always starts as an EA and sometimes progresses to a PA. Thoughts?


I agree with this. Which is why it is hard to answer this thread with a definitive opinion. But given a choice, I would rather my stbxw have had a one night physical affair with no other than naked lust vs pinning her hopes and dreams on a fantasy.


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## NotSo (Jul 23, 2012)

Decieved - I thought the same thing about women must have an EA prior to a PA...but, I think women are just as lousy as maintaining bounderies as men who choose to stray.

Hell, during my W's bullsh1t attempt of R (and trust me, it was total a total bullsh1t effort)...I cheated. I allowed my boundaries to dissolve...I felt I had to one up her EA by having my own PA and I even felt justified. What I didnt know how screwed up I was from the EA I caught her. My emotions were all over the place and I found someone to listen to me, be a friend that I needed; and one night after some beers WE both went for it. That is my "excuse"...it was 90% physical and 10% emotional.

We carried on for 2 months and WE both decided to end it. My motivation for ending my PA was to be clear on why I was choosing to move out of my home - I did not move out because of my PA, I moved out because of the Lies, the Trickling of Truth's, and the continued contact my W had with the OM. I am filing for D tomorrow morning.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

NotSo said:


> Decieved - I thought the same thing about women must have an EA prior to a PA...but, I think women are just as lousy as maintaining bounderies as men who choose to stray.
> 
> Hell, during my W's bullsh1t attempt of R (and trust me, it was total a total bullsh1t effort)...I cheated. I allowed my boundaries to dissolve...I felt I had to one up her EA by having my own PA and I even felt justified. What I didnt know how screwed up I was from the EA I caught her. My emotions were all over the place and I found someone to listen to me, be a friend that I needed; and one night after some beers WE both went for it. That is my "excuse"...it was 90% physical and 10% emotional.
> 
> We carried on for 2 months and WE both decided to end it. My motivation for ending my PA was to be clear on why I was choosing to move out of my home - I did not move out because of my PA, I moved out because of the Lies, the Trickling of Truth's, and the continued contact my W had with the OM. I am filing for D tomorrow morning.


Sorry to hear this. What an awful thing infidelity is.

Do you regret your affair or are you glad it happened?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

NotSo said:


> Hope - I hear ya and yes I understand that - I was just trying to find some grounds for a solely PA based affair. I think that if someone is being sexually satisfied at home they would be much less likely looking for sexual gratification outside of the home. To what ever that level may be to themselves such as the quality and quantity of sex.


Sexual satisfaction is closely tied to emotional connection in most cases. I think that except for some extremes, if a person feels emotionally connected to their partner they are far less likely to look for sex outside the home ... and they are likely to be sexually satisfied within the home. Even cases where you have one person who is HD and the spouse is LD ... if the HD cheats then it is probably because the lack of a physical connection has led to a deterioration of their emotional connection. That person really needs that physical connection to maintain that emotional connection.


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## NotSo (Jul 23, 2012)

I mainly regret it - at the time, I didn't know what I was doing was called a "revenge affair". I regret only because my AP was, and still is a friend, but it's different now, obviously. My experience with her was incredible, sex like I haven't had in 20 years. I did know that it was not a lasting type of relationship - she is 18 years younger than me and wants a family (I am done with kids).

Like I said, mine was way more a PA than EA - Regardless of the position I was in or the feelings and emotions I was having, did not justify my cheating.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The-Deceived said:


> Do you regret your affair or are you glad it happened?


I know you said you're not considering it, but DO NOT DO THIS. It will not solve a damned thing.

If you do decide to end it for good, then have at er


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> So what you're saying is kind of the same thing guys keep saying about why they look at porn - it's all fantasy and there's no chance it could ever go beyond fantasy? It generated mind movies for you? I'm talking about the physical aspect of it here, not the emotional. Because to communicate in a sexual manner, if it isn't because you eventually wanted to take it physical in person, must just be for titillation, right? Or was it something else?
> 
> Sorry I seem to be picking on you, but you're the only one answering my questions


Have not been reading the thread.

I dd not know my EA was an EA until I came through withdrawal. Many folks who claim they are just very close freinds are really in denial. 

Anyway, EAs are an emotional addiction to someone. Most people do not intend to do any wrong. At some point it can become romantic. Indeed that can turn sexual. One can feel romantic and just be in that fog. We love our friends ... right? 

But when people have these sexual flirting type things. When they are exchanging nude picks or whatever, to me that is not an EA any longer if it ever was. That is flat cake eating / cheating.

EAs do flrt with the idea of intent. In one way inten matters and in another it does not. We are still responsible for what we do no matter our intent. I was naive, egotistical and an idiot. Egotistical but there was no way with my character I would do anything improper. This was tunnel vison. It scarred the crap out of me after wards. Once I was blind and then I could see. I could see the matrix after that. LOL.

Now this does not excuse an EA. But they are so plentiful. So many naive people with poor boundaries. Yes character can come into play. One would hope before too long. But remember the history re-writing that people will do. The rationalization.

Anyway, if you end up naging someone you have no plausible denial with me. Ooops does not cut it.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> I know you said you're not considering it, but DO NOT DO THIS. It will not solve a damned thing.
> 
> If you do decide to end it for good, then have at er


No, I won't. It's not my nature. Plus, the logistics would be a nightmare. 

I already had my "strange" when we were separated.

My wife sensed my trepidation today thru our texts. She keeps telling me to look to the future, that she will never hurt me again, that wasn't her, she was so messed up, we are going to take over the world...pretty convincing. But damn, it's hard not to go to that dark place.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> I wonder if it's even possible for a woman to have a PA without an EA? I'm sure there are some rare cases (sex addicts for example), but in general I would assume with women it always starts as an EA and sometimes progresses to a PA. Thoughts?


Do you think this applies to a non-addict in a ONS 4some?


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## NotSo (Jul 23, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Do you think this applies to a non-addict in a ONS 4some?


IMO, that is purely physical...I'm starting to think for most people to stray, there must be some type of emotional bond no matter the situation. Unless the wayward needs more than one partner at the same time to boost their self esteem - then I believe the group sex is purely for the physical pleasure??


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

C-man said:


> The thing for me is that a pure PA (no emotional attachment), while devastating and bad, is easier for me to understand. Like scratching an itch. Not really, but I get that. Still devastating - but recoverable, in my opinion. Maybe one of the reasons I think this is that my stbxw never any other partners (until her affair). I try to put myself in her shoes and I kind of get it (she was unhappy and that led to a curiosity). NO EXCUSE, but I understand it. The OM is like a dildo in sense. Used strictly for momentary pleasure.
> 
> An EA violates the safety of a marriage. Thoughts I may have confided to my stbxw are now being shared with a stranger. Perhaps even mocked. My thoughts and opinions are placed secondary to the POSOM's. My shared secrets are no longer secret. My stbxw's heart races when she receives a text from him. How do you recover from this? How do you even begin to understand it?
> 
> ...


This is the biggest pain you can ever feel :iagree: and my unforgettable story. The problem I am having trying to be in R is that I feel I was no one to my H. She was able to get in the middle of us and to even make him think they would have a story together (I mean they both did - it is not like she did everything). 

The thing with the "work friends" is that they spend so much time together unless they are like me that I avoid being int he office. But the WS need to feel constantly validated is what gets the ball rolling if someone has already been on the prowl for them - like in my case.

PAs are horrible but if you have an EA that came from an "8 year work friendship" and then went on to be PA, you really lost the battle there. It took about 6 months of separation for him to see things clearly and then it was pretty late bc I do not feel it and I do not see it. Now he has been trying to romance the heck out of me so we can have a possible chance to R. If there are any WS out there answer me something - is it worth it?:scratchhead:


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

2asdf2 said:


> Do you think this applies to a non-addict in a ONS 4some?


Is that what went down?


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## Roller (Sep 18, 2014)

I'm a man and I voted that EA is worse. 

My reasoning is that when it's a PA there is almost a sense of there being "something" to end. A WW cannot really deny a "proven" PA.

But, it's almost impossible (in my experience) to get a WW to even admit to an EA because it's a grey-er area. What I feel is an EA isn't necessarily what others thing it is, and that ambiguity can be used by a WW to justify that there wasn't an EA.

I suppose if it's a proven, confessed to EA versus a proven, confessed to PA, then like most men, I'd probably agree that an PA is worse. However given that many affairs are never admitted/proven/confessed to, for me the a denied EA is worse than a denied PA.

Does that make any sort of sense whatsoever?!


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm sorry but where is the option * I am a male and I think both are bad*???????


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I think it depends on the depth of either one. A "major" EA is way worse than a 'simple' ONS PA, imho. And a repeated, ongoing PA is way worse than slippery slope crossing the flirting line "minor" EA.

I've said it before: I wish my stbx WW had just banged the guy once rather than carry on and ultimately proclaim "I love you, and it's wrong but I am not going to stop" to her AP that she (apparently) didn't ever have sex with nor want to leave me for.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

2xloser said:


> I think it depends on the depth of either one. A "major" EA is way worse than a 'simple' ONS PA, imho. And a repeated, ongoing PA is way worse than slippery slope crossing the flirting line "minor" EA.
> 
> I've said it before: I wish my stbx WW had just banged the guy once rather than carry on and ultimately proclaim "I love you, and it's wrong but I am not going to stop" to her AP that she (apparently) didn't ever have sex with nor want to leave me for.


Eh zomber


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

most so-called EAs are actually affairs caught too early to reach PA stage, or long distance situations that lacked the opportunity to go physical.
Usually EAs between people that have the chance of meeting in person will go PA rather quickly. We see all the time BSs coming here talking about EAs with no physical consequences (usually because the WS will state something like "we did meet, but just to talk"), only to discover, after a little digging, that it was indeed physical.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

This thread is more than a year old. I think we can close it now.


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