# It is what it is



## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

My wife has recently returned from an (unsuccessful) visit with her EAP. Although she claims they behaved themselves during this visit, and she is now done with this, I still have many reservations about how things will go from here on out. 

She is going to her first counseling appointment today, and I am concerned that it will do harm rather than good. She will get to tell her side of the story to our counselor, who has already heard mine. When she returns, who knows what she will have to say about how it went. I have so many doubts about how this all might go, it's tearing me up inside.

I faithfully executed the 180 for several days after she returned, and then she started wanting to have hugs, and I guess some of you would call me a wuss, because I gave in. I love her so much, and want our R to work. So I don't want to throw obstacles in the way of that. For us to reconcile, we have to regain the intimacy I withheld from her for most of our marriage. 

If I had to tender a question here for advice, I guess it would be; how far should you go, how much do you feel you should give to make R really work? If I were a complete harda$$, would it ever serve to draw us back together? :scratchhead:

What she has given: Her agreement that the A is over, her willingness to engage in counseling, and ending our separation, which she requested initally. And her willingness to be physically close, which she had completely shut down during the period of our separation.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why is your wife meeting up with her AP? What part of No Contact doesn't she understand?

Lose the fear, buddy. Stop fearing. If things don't work out with her, move on. Life is too short to be chasing/pining/caring about someone who doesn't treat you with loving respect and commitment.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm just a little confused about why she would be visiting/seeing/talking to her AP.

That would never have been tolerated by my husband. The OM sent a text to me out of the blue after several months and I thought my husband was going to lose his mind! I can't imagine calmly telling him that we were going out to lunch. After he finished leveling the house, I think he'd level the AP and anyone else in his path.

You may not want to throw obstacles in the path but she does - the OM 'is' an obstacle that she firmly planted there.

Mark my words, she is testing to see if she can have both you and him.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

If your W is remorseful about her EA, why did she meet up with him?

I hope you both manage to sort things out, OP, but it's your W who should be afraid here, and it is she who should be doing everything in her power to make amends to you and restore your trust in her.

My only suggestion is to continue with the MC and see where that takes you.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Hi bobka,
Did you wife sent a NC email? Did she agreed to transparence? Is she willing to talk about the affiar, amswer your questions? Is she defiant or remorseful?


> And her willingness to be physically close, which she had completely shut down during the period of our separation.


The shutting down was because she was faithful to OM. Seems OM wans't what she expected. If she agrees to R then sexual intimathy/physical touch back to the table is a no brainer. Wasn't "it" the main reason she gave for this?

180 is for you to detach from your abuser, to focus on you, in your healing, your own improvement. If she agrees the rules/conditions you put and seems to match her wors with actions then 180 ends and you put yourself in reconciliation mode. It means complete honesty on both parts, emotional transparence.
She has to reach the conclusion the affair was wrong. No excuses, not shifting the blame. She has to help you to get past the pain the betrayal cause you.
Beyond that the old marriage is dead, a new one needs to be built. It requires to entire, 100 % participation.
It's specially truth in your case. Your short comings and lack of investiment caused her unhappines, lots of pains. It's not rewritting the story. It's a proven fact you admit. You own it and you correct it. You are going to strugle with this "rewarding/punishment" thing for a while.
My ideas on this is if your wife asume the 100 % of her affair as a wrong decision and help you to heal then you must decide to put 100 % in the marriage wish shockingly also means you need to step out into self improvement.

Best wishes.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> If your W is remorseful about her EA, why did she meet up with him?
> 
> I hope you both manage to sort things out, OP, but it's your W who should be afraid here, and it is she who should be doing everything in her power to make amends to you and restore your trust in her.
> 
> My only suggestion is to continue with the MC and see where that takes you.


This visit was the end of the A. This was D-Day, as it were.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You said she "recently" returned from a visit with him?

Did she travel to see him? Did she stay with him???


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So she just found out that the grass wasn't greener and you are ready to take her back immediately ? Why are you sure that she will stop looking ?

Tell her that you are going to do the same and if you don't find anyone better by the end of next month, you will reconcile with her. (Don't do it though. You need to let her feel what it is to be a backup option)


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I faithfully executed the 180 for several days after she returned, and then she started wanting to have hugs, and I guess some of you would call me a wuss, because I gave in. I love her so much, and want our R to work. So I don't want to throw obstacles in the way of that.


Short term vs long term. You went for the temporary less painful option

The 180 is called as such because it goes against your intuition. If it takes just a few hugs to get you back, she might not value what she might lose so much


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Hi bobka,
> Did you wife sent a NC email? Did she agreed to transparence? Is she willing to talk about the affiar, amswer your questions? Is she defiant or remorseful?
> The shutting down was because she was faithful to OM. Seems OM wans't what she expected. If she agrees to R then sexual intimathy/physical touch back to the table is a no brainer. Wasn't "it" the main reason she gave for this?
> 
> ...


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> You said she "recently" returned from a visit with him?
> 
> Did she travel to see him? Did she stay with him???


She did travel to see him. She did not stay with him.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> OM wasn't what she expected, and the situation wasn't what she expected.


What do you mean by that ? Did she give you the details /


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Acabado said:


> The shutting down was because she was faithful to OM. Seems OM wans't what she expected. If she agrees to R then sexual intimathy/physical touch back to the table is a no brainer. Wasn't "it" the main reason she gave for this?


It was the main reason that she felt that the marriage didn't work for her, but it was not the main reason for an EA. She needed to feel attractive again, etc. That this man was not right for her is the result of the visit. You have to understand that she has morals to some degree, and did not do this to compensate for no sex. She did this, as folks here have said, to see if the grass was greener elsewhere, in another relationship. That did not necessarily have to include sex.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What do you mean by that ? Did she give you the details /


She did give me the details, and I can see that there's no hope for them, as she also sees.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

So she will be on the lookout for greener gras elsewhere from now on?


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Lose the FEAR is right! A lifetime of self-loathing is in your future if your do not fly stright!


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

cpacan said:


> So she will be on the lookout for greener gras elsewhere from now on?


I guess I'll never really know this. Can we ever be sure of anything? I have to go on the facts that I have, and decide whether I want to make this marriage work, and at this point, I do. 

Hell, _I_ may find greener grass elsewhere myself in the future, but it will be about what I do about it if and when it happens that defines my character.

Look, I have to assume that she realizes that there will be plenty of opportunity to look elsewhere for the happiness she did not find with me. We have to decide, as a couple, whether what's right with our marriage outstrips what's wrong with it.

This is my whole reason for the thread, the questions. I want to know how people go about reconciliation and how it has gone for them. I don't want to talk about STD tests and polygraphs. I'm past that.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm still not understanding why she needed to travel to him. She could have (and should have) done that via email/letter/text. This just leaves way too many questions - did they have physical contact? Would she ever tell you if they did?

I am traveling tomorrow to an office where I had previously met with my AP (prior to D Day) and even though he's no longer in the same state, this is triggering my husband like crazy to the point that he's been physically ill for the last two days. 

I just cannot imagine the emotional torment it would cause to tell my BH I was going to meet the xOM in person.

How are you going to be able to tell if they have contact in the future? What have the two of you agreed upon with regards to this?


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

You want it to work...got it, I was at the same place as you once. I forgave my wife, I loved her, had loved her for 30 years. I get it.
What you dont get, is to get it to work you have to take some risks, be assertative. Being the accomadating wuss has got you where? Continualling to be an accomadating wuss is to contiue what you have. Ask for advice, but dont dismiss it at first simply because you "dont want to do that".....180 continually, for you, not for her our your relationship. 180 for you.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

You're rug sweeping. You'll only burry this for it to resurface later. You need to dig in the dirt a bit first. I know you want to be past it, but you need to dig for the hard details, and then decide what to do.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

So, if the OM was the kind of man she liked where would you be now ?

The mindset of a wayward is one that allows them to think they can return to their spouse when the AP is not who they want , your fear of not following a firm , uncompromising hard line is going to lose you your marriage . No matter how much you love her , today - she does not love you. 

Your actions are going to give her the impression that every time she goes off to see an OM your going to be her backup plan.

No one is asking you to D her however we are saying that there are tough steps to follow to give your marriage a chance of survival.

Do not allow her to blame you in any way for the affair , half the marriage issues are hers , the affair is 100% hers. MC is not an option until she faces up to her adultery and evidences by her actions that she is in the marriage. The 180 you ran is way to short to have had an impact , if anything your hugging her tells her your weak and fearful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

bobka said:


> That this man was not right for her is the result of the visit. You have to understand that she has morals to some degree, and did not do this to compensate for no sex. She did this, as folks here have said, to see if the grass was greener elsewhere, in another relationship.


It's neat the way you see it from her perspective. It reminds me of a conversation I had with my FIL this morning. He needs to have a couple of trees cut down and has one price of $2,200. He told the tree guy he needed to get a couple of more bids. The tree guy said he's ok with that. You remind me of the tree guy. Maybe she'll let the contract to you when she finishes reviewing the estimates..


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Read the above link
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

Bobka -

I am going to give you some harsh advice here. Please know that the only reason I am being this blunt with you is because you are in a BS fog (and take your pick on "betrayed spouse" or "bullsh!t"). You need to get smacked back to reality. Pronto!

Reconciliation cannot be successful unless BOTH parties are 100% committed to it. And even then, it's more likely to fail than succeed. It is a BRUTAL process. Trust me, the only couples that have a remote chance are those that turn into each other completely.

Your wife betrays you and your marriage by having an affair and your response is to allow her to go off and see if this new OM is a better partner for her? THEN you accept her when she comes crawling back and says it won't work out with him???????

Your wife has not shown remorse. She has accepted that you are good enough for now, until she can find the better man.

You have to know that you are worth more than this! Stop being her doormat, and FULLY implement the 180. You cannot possibly be happy in this situation. 

The path you are headed down now is guaranteed to get worse and still ultimately leave you abandoned. She will continue to cake eat while she is interviewing for her next victim. Meanwhile, you will be miserable while still putting effort into a doomed relationship. All you are doing is enabling a longer, drawn out version of the story that enables more torture and THEN she will leave you.

If you FULLY implement the 180, there is a chance SHE will snap out of her fog. And even if she doesn't, you will be making yourself healthier and stronger. And at the end of the day, you can respect yourself again.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

This is just so backwards it's tragic. 

So she went and tried on your replacement, decided this guy wasn't the right one, came home and now wants to reconcile?

Do I have that right? So she's out cruising for your replacement and you're negotiating terms for her to come back? UFB!!! 

Let's say you were the most neglectful husband ever - by miles - but were always faithful. At most the two of you are even now - AT MOST!!! She traveled to see another man while married to you, to see if she liked him better than you. You can choose to believe they had sex or not, but that still doesn't change the fact that she is actively trying to replace you and based on your post hasn't so much as said "I'm sorry." 

I haven't pulled punches in your other threads and I'm not going to start now. While her affair with this guy may be over, she'll keep looking for a new you. All she decided was that this OM wasn't "the one." She did not decide that you "are the one" either. No way on this earth I'd take her back until she came begging and pleading that I was the only one, how could she have ever thought otherwise, and she'll eat broken glass to prove it to me.  But that's just me.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm still new to this and learning as much as I can from folks here who have been through it. That being said, I can tell you that the first rule has been broken.

Rule #1 - NO CONTACT. This doesn't mean travel to see him in person and break it gently. It means immediately cut off all contact. Period. The end. Break this rule and all reconciliation ends. No exceptions.

What types of transparency will she be offering so that you can gain assurance that this isn't ongoing or beginning with someone new?

No one is trying to be mean or say that you shouldn't try to reconcile, they're just seeing some things that are concerning and indicate it may not succeed.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> No one is trying to be mean or say that you shouldn't try to reconcile, they're just seeing some things that are concerning and indicate it may not succeed.


We're trying to say that he can't reconcile by himself and his wife clearly is not coming to the dance of her own accord. 

Concessions from her:
Her agreement that the A is over.
her willingness to engage in counseling
ending our separation, which she requested initally
her willingness to be physically close

That is not remorse. Not even close.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> We're trying to say that he can't reconcile by himself and his wife clearly is not coming to the dance of her own accord.
> 
> Concessions from her:
> Her agreement that the A is over.
> ...


I agree that she has not expressed remorse. She feels she had to do this for her. I guess what's being missed here is that I can't really blame her for having done this, and although I would like to see remorse (she did, actually, now that I think of it, express remorse during her absence). 

I might have done the same thing were I in her shoes. I have had an emotional affair, as well, some years ago, and she has not really gotten over that. So there may be some retaliation going on here, too. Another part of the dynamic I haven't really painted here. So I am a cheater, too.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

bobka said:


> This visit was the end of the A. This was D-Day, as it were.


 It took 2 weeks staying in a hotel that he paid for her to end the affair? She tells you that there was no sex and you actually believe her? She cheated on you because she knows that no matter what she does, you will take her back.

She has in-your-face disrespected you because she has not respect for you. Without respect there can be no love. If you continue down this road, she will cheat again, hide it better, lie to your face about it, and you will believe her and try not to see it. The only chance of saving this marraige long term (if you should even want to) is to move to end the marraige and mean it. Only if she truly sees the light and begs to have you back should you even consider taking her back. Anything less and you are just fooling yourself.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

bobka said:


> She did give me the details, and I can see that there's no hope for them, as she also sees.


Yes, what you don't see is that you are mr backup plan. The question here is, do you want to be number 2 in her life? Are you so desperate that you'd rather settle for number 2 than not have her in your life?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

cpacan said:


> So she will be on the lookout for greener gras elsewhere from now on?


Yep, that's how I see it. "Hmm, let me try out this other man for awhile. Nope, it won't work, so I guess I go back with you for now."

It may happen again or it may not, but you are clearly the back up plan here. There's no other way to see it.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

bobka said:


> I might have done the same thing were I in her shoes. I have had an emotional affair, as well, some years ago, and she has not really gotten over that. So there may be some retaliation going on here, too. Another part of the dynamic I haven't really painted here. So I am a cheater, too.


Ok - that changes the dynamic some I suppose. There are posters here who have been both the wayward and betrayed spouse, hopefully they'll chime in. Regardless everyone here will tell you that she owns her cheating.

I guess the dilemma, at least as I see it, is that you clearly want the marriage to work and are willing to bust you ass in the effort. Where as based on your post she's just settling for your marriage because she can't find a better deal. That's not going to work and I suspect you know it. IMO she needs to full bore, wide open, commit to you and to the marriage as you are prepared to do to her. I can see given the situation where it's fair and reasonable for you to walk halfway and say I'm here, I'm prepared to do this, but you can't walk more than halfway. She has to meet you in middle and make the same commitment you are willing to make. Otherwise it's all lip service.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

bobka said:


> My wife has recently returned from an (unsuccessful) visit with her EAP. Although she claims they behaved themselves during this visit, and she is now done with this, I still have many reservations about how things will go from here on out.


First, congratulations on being Plan B! Hey, it's better than Plan C. Second, I'm sure your wife is telling the truth about behaving herself. People travel long distances to meet their affair partners and not have sex with them all the time. I'm sure your wife is being truthful. It's not like she would lie to you.



bobka said:


> I faithfully executed the 180 for several days after she returned, and then she started wanting to have hugs, and I guess some of you would call me a wuss, because I gave in. I love her so much, and want our R to work. So I don't want to throw obstacles in the way of that.


I agree. If something you're doing is working, it's usually best to stop doing it.



bobka said:


> If I had to tender a question here for advice, I guess it would be; how far should you go, how much do you feel you should give to make R really work? If I were a complete harda$$, would it ever serve to draw us back together? :scratchhead:


If you were a complete harda$$? That's kind of like asking, "What if a frog had wings?" It doesn't matter. Not happening. 



bobka said:


> What she has given: Her agreement that the A is over, her willingness to engage in counseling, and ending our separation, which she requested initally. And her willingness to be physically close, which she had completely shut down during the period of our separation.


In other words, she has offered to sweep this affair under the rug. Sounds great!! Lots of people on here can tell you that that is a super strategy.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Ok - that changes the dynamic some I suppose. There are posters here who have been both the wayward and betrayed spouse, hopefully they'll chime in. Regardless everyone here will tell you that she owns her cheating.
> 
> I guess the dilemma, at least as I see it, is that you clearly want the marriage to work and are willing to bust you ass in the effort. Where as based on your post she's just settling for your marriage because she can't find a better deal. That's not going to work and I suspect you know it. IMO she needs to full bore, wide open, commit to you and to the marriage as you are prepared to do to her. I can see given the situation where it's fair and reasonable for you to walk halfway and say I'm here, I'm prepared to do this, but you can't walk more than halfway. She has to meet you in middle and make the same commitment you are willing to make. Otherwise it's all lip service.


You see, it barely dawned on me that I had cheated, too. It seemed like so long ago, and I thought we were past that. But I guess she's not. I feel she's never forgiven me completely, and that has been part of her drive for this. 

I'm not interested in walking more than halfway. My personal halfway is a long enough walk as it is. We will see if it's lip service or not, but I know that we both want to make this work, if at all possible. 

I guess I need to acknowledge here that I had a lengthy (several months), very involved emotional affair with my first girlfriend (from when we were 16) a few years back. We emailed dozens of times a day, and, although she was more into it than I was, I engaged, and did the wrong thing. My wife discovered our emails, and I pretty much had a nervous breakdown in the fallout. 

I am a cheater. There, I said it.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

bobka without remorse there's no hope.
We may argue here forever about what remorse looks like, what rugsweeping looks like but what it takes to R is remorse from the wayward side and willingness to forgive from the betrayed one.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

cpacan said:


> So she will be on the lookout for greener gras elsewhere from now on?


Take it from me this is true - my STBXW pined over one of my best friends and came back as apologetic as ever - 3 years later - she had a PA with a coworker......if the grass inst greener here ...she'll look for greener grass elsewhere....all she knows is the grass isnt green enough where she is and that, my friend, is where you are standing.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

bobka said:


> You see, it barely dawned on me that I had cheated, too. It seemed like so long ago, and I thought we were past that. But I guess she's not.
> 
> I guess I need to acknowledge here that I had a lengthy (several months), very involved emotional affair with my first girlfriend (from when we were 16) a few years back. We emailed dozens of times a day, and, although she was more into it than I was, I engaged, and did the wrong thing. My wife discovered our emails, and I pretty much had a nervous breakdown in the fallout.
> 
> I am a cheater. There, I said it.


Okay, before you go hog wild on yourself - there was stuff that happened between me and other girls around the time when my wife and I first started dating and it was long in the past. We discussed it before we got married for cripes sakes....but she bought up all this crap up when she was having an emotional affair with my best friend. Why? not because she didnt deal with it but she needed SOMETHING to justify her own behaviour......and that was the best she could come up with....something 25 years ago...sound familiar?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> First, congratulations on being Plan B! Hey, it's better than Plan C. Second, I'm sure your wife is telling the truth about behaving herself. People travel long distances to meet their affair partners and not have sex with them all the time. I'm sure your wife is being truthful. It's not like she would lie to you.
> 
> 
> I agree. If something you're doing is working, it's usually best to stop doing it.
> ...


You really give your advice in love.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

bobka said:


> I guess I need to acknowledge here that I had a lengthy (several months), very involved emotional affair with my first girlfriend (from when we were 16) a few years back. We emailed dozens of times a day, and, although she was more into it than I was, I engaged, and did the wrong thing. My wife discovered our emails, and I pretty much had a nervous breakdown in the fallout.
> 
> I am a cheater. There, I said it.


 When she caught you did you show remorse, or did you fly up and spend two weeks in a hotel to visit with your emotional affair partner? I am guessing that you showed remorse and allowed her to keep her dignity in taking you back. That is not the case with your wife. Also, two weeks in a hotel paid for by her affair partner and you know that while yours was an emotional affair, hers was both an emotional and physical affair.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

BjornFree said:


> Yes, what you don't see is that you are mr backup plan. The question here is, do you want to be number 2 in her life? Are you so desperate that you'd rather settle for number 2 than not have her in your life?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I would like to add that when you accept the role of being #2, she will treat you like #2 (sh*t).


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

bobka said:


> You really give your advice in love.


I keed. I keed. But seriously, your wife sounds like she's sown her wild oats, she doesn't regret it, and she's willing to come back to you if you shape up. That won't last long term.

Either you will resent your wife getting away with an affair, or your wife will simply cheat again, since she suffered no consequences the first time.

There are two things that will affair-proof a marriage as much as possible. The first is love for one's spouse. That means she doesn't want to hurt you by cheating. You don't have that. The second is fear that an affair will cause your life to take an irrevocable turn for the worse financially, emotionally, socially, and spiritually. You don't have that, either. It seems like you're just hoping for the best. Maybe that will work. Maybe she will never have a good opportunity to cheat on you. Maybe she will never again come into contact with another man who will be willing to have an affair with her. But, I doubt it.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

So you believe everything she says?

How does it feels to be the back-up plan? The guy she goes back to after her little road trip? What happens when she does find someone she enjoys better?

Good luck with what ever you decide to do - what am I saying - you are going to let her skate on this with no consequences - right?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

BTW bobka, do you have the keylogger installed? She already proved you she can be sneaky. Trust but verify.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Some mod or admin should sticky this thread. 

Title it "The dangers of being a beta male spouse."

Also sticky the next thread when he posts again saying she left him for OM#2 whose grass did turn out to be greener. 

I've read so many tales, but bobka this one of the worst. You're her back up plan, period. I've read backup plan spouses before but you're actually accepting this and you're allowing her to actively search for other men. This isn't payback for an EA. This is her trying to find a man whose better than you, so she can go be with him. She'll stay with you up until she finds another man who she feels is better than you. Its not an if, its only a matter of time cause shes still searching. 

She gets out for a two week sex vacation(Oh yeah they had sex, I can't in god's name fathom how you think they didn't when they were together for 2 weeks) comes home, didn't like OM so she says she'll settle for you. And you're besides yourself in joy with being the default husband?

You have one chance to save this marriage, but you're not taking it cause its the hard way. You rather settle for a few hugs and put your head in the sand to the inevitable because its easier that way. 

I hope those hugs are worth it. When OM#2 comes along with deep pockets, a handsome face and shes definitely leaving you for him, I hope those hugs will be worth it, cause thats all you'll have left of her.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

bobka said:


> My wife has recently returned from an (unsuccessful) visit with her EAP. Although she claims they behaved themselves during this visit, and she is now done with this, I still have many reservations about how things will go from here on out.
> 
> She is going to her first counseling appointment today, and I am concerned that it will do harm rather than good. She will get to tell her side of the story to our counselor, who has already heard mine. When she returns, who knows what she will have to say about how it went. I have so many doubts about how this all might go, it's tearing me up inside.
> 
> ...


You are determined to try to R so here it goes....

Right now you do need to snoop, verify cell records, maybe a key logger etc. until you verify there is NC with anyone else.

She needs to be transparent as hell, you get all passwords to everything.

She gives 110% to you and your marriage. This you should see in action and in words. 

She needs to be sorry for what she did, she needs to say those words and feel them. She should hate what she did to you, to her and to your marriage. She may be in a little fog right now though, so this may not come right away, not sure on that one though.

She can't get defensive when you ask questions, BIG no no there. She answers all questions, and answers the ones you keep asking over and over again, because you will do this.

You both get into IC and of course MC.

Now YOU, you have to be present in this marriage also. You have to give 110% too. I like what sigma said, both of you meet in the middle. It's going to take both of you giving everything you have to make this work. Than there are still no guarantees.
It's hard work, it's not easy, it's not for everyone. 

Also, if you see she isn't working hard enough, or you just don't have it in you then you have to know it's over. You must see effort from her, and you must give also.

If she breaks NC it's over, you must know this and drill this into her head and yours!

I do wish you the best, but this isn't going to be easy bobka, what she just did, as you know, wasn't ok, it was cruel and hurtful and, well, I could go on and on here but I will stop.

Yeah..yeah.. I know you hard liners will flame me here, that's perfectly ok with me.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

bobka said:


> And her willingness to be physically close, which she had completely shut down during the period of our separation.


bobka, bobka, bobka. Don't ever roll the dice in Vegas my friend. You'd get cleaned out. If the girl spends a couple of weeks with her boyfriend and doesn't have sex, what chance would you have. 
Like my brother would say, "that chick would have to be so frigid, she'd make an iceberg feel hot as Georgia blacktop in the August sun." Of course they were sleeping together.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I have to agree...it really is beyond comprehension that she didn't sleep with him. Maybe it was sleeping with him that turned her off of him, who knows. But it's really hard to fathom otherwise.

I'd get tested for STDs and insist she get tested, too.

I get that you had an emotional affair, and it sounds like it was very hurtful to her, no big surprise there. I also get that you believe you can get past what she did because of what you did first.

It's the way you're going about "getting past what she did" that everyone is disagreeing with. You are taking her improbable story and believing every word, for starters.

Her disrespect for you may have started with your emotional affair--I know that my H entering one really lowered him in my eyes for a while--because what I saw before me was a coward. But I don't see anything that has happened since your emotional affair to change that. She lost respect for you, so she felt entitled to travel and meet an affair partner at a hotel, and she felt entitled to say "meh" and come right back home. The sum total is still huge disrespect for you with no evidence of that changing.

As has already been said, without respect there cannot be romantic love, particularly a wife for a husband. Until you understand that two rights DON'T make a wrong, and you didn't "deserve" her to cheat any more than she did, you will be her favorite person to hold down the fort until the next guy comes along.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Kasler said:


> Some mod or admin should sticky this thread.
> 
> Title it "The dangers of being a beta male spouse."
> 
> ...


:iagree:

This, I cannot believe what I just read in this thread, my mind is blown.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

I am going to try something different here, meeting you were you are at.
You have received more than enough in your face posts...so here it goes..

You have to be in a lot of pain right now, still hurting over what your wife did. Your beat up and wounded right now. You are still probably in disbelief and shock, It's only been what 2 weeks since she got back from the OM. I think many posters are forgetting this, that your still not thinking straight and won't be for a while. Your wife also may very well be in the "fog" not sure. Many things may come to light over the next month or two.

So, you are determined to work this out, can you give us some insight as to how your wife is behaving right now?
is she showing remorse, sorry, is she talking..is she getting defensive with your questions?

Sex or now sex with the OM, what she did was wrong and she, hopefully realizes this. YOU want to work this out. How about her, where does she stand. It does take two to R, and it takes both being upfront and honest, willing to talk it out.

Have the issues pre-A began to be addressed? 

Do you have counseling setup for the both of you?

If you want, give us some of these answers and others can hopefully offer something more then what you have been getting.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> I am going to try something different here, meeting you were you are at.
> You have received more than enough in your face posts...so here it goes..
> 
> You have to be in a lot of pain right now, still hurting over what your wife did. Your beat up and wounded right now. You are still probably in disbelief and shock, It's only been what 2 weeks since she got back from the OM.
> ...


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

how long had the ea been going on prior to her leaving? sorry if this is already posted somewhere.

IC counseling for her IS CRITICAL!!
MC for you two is also critical!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> how long had the ea been going on prior to her leaving? sorry if this is already posted somewhere.
> 
> IC counseling for her IS CRITICAL!!
> MC for you two is also critical!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It was never discussed in a post. This had been going on, on some level, since last year. But the "romantic" feelings didn't come out until she discussed the lack of intimacy problem with him, probably about June. Then he responded as most men probably would have.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm going to keep what I think about your situation to myself as I know how badly you are hurting. I just want you to know that my heart goes out to you. You seem to be such a sweet man and I pray that your marriage works out the way you want it to. May you find peace and happiness.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

pidge70 said:


> I'm going to keep what I think about your situation to myself as I know how badly you are hurting. I just want you to know that my heart goes out to you. You seem to be such a sweet man and I pray that your marriage works out the way you want it to. May you find peace and happiness.


I pray every day for peace and happiness. So thank you so much for that. I also know that it takes two people to R, and if she's not there for it, it will not happen. So I have no dilusions or illusions about how this may go. I do know that I want this marriage to work, so I can only do the things on my side that will bring that about. 

There's so much that hasn't been posted, so many details that make this situation unique, and I've just been hammered by people who don't know the whole story. But how can they unless they are right here, in the situation?

So I do appreciate the comments. Don't hold back, but _do_ give your advice in love, and not bitterness. 

I just read another poster who really slammed me, and I asked how things had worked out for him. He told me that he has already moved on, and is now in a new relationship. That seemed kind of fast (4.5 months) for me. If I were to split up with WW, I'd probably mourn a lot longer than that before entering into the risk of a relationship that has the possibility of infidelity, as I have come to believe that they all, pretty much, do. 

Are you ready to talk about you and Joe yet? I suppose you'd post that on the reconciliation thread, huh?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

You will get a lot of bitter/angry responses. Plenty of people here are jaded and with good reason. I think sometimes though, they see themselves in a situation and they advise things that they wish they had done. What I think about your situation doesn't matter, what you think about it does matter. I just truly hope your wife is being honest with you. I will admit, I have a hard time buying it. 

Joe and I are fine. Thank you for asking.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

bobka, thaks for the date. To resume it.
Online friendship, around 1 year. Down the slippery slope.
Boundaires crossed blatantly - online EA Jun'12

When did she inform you about the ''In house''/Separated situation?
When did she inform about the OM - romantic interest?
When did she inform about the impending trip?
When the MC sessions fit in this timeline?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Acabado said:


> bobka, thaks for the date. To resume it.
> Online friendship, around 1 year. Down the slippery slope.
> Boundaires crossed blatantly - online EA Jun'12
> 
> ...


She has seen our MC once alone since her return (I saw him several times before, when she would not agree to MC) and now we will be seeing him once a week together for a while.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

bobka said:


> She has seen our MC once alone since her return (I saw him several times before, when she would not agree to MC) and now we will be seeing him once a week together for a while.


Thanks again. I asume she rejected to going to MC anymore once she told she was interested in OM but you already told us you went to MC before, right? Why? Was her who demanded it? When did it happen?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Thanks again. I asume she rejected to going to MC anymore once she told she was interested in OM but you already told us you went to MC before, right? Why? Was her who demanded it? When did it happen?


I went to a counselor because I needed help dealing with what she was doing. I'm not sure I understand all of your questions.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

bobka said:


> I went to a counselor because I needed help dealing with what she was doing. I'm not sure I understand all of your questions.


Sorrry, maybe I'm thinking in another poster. If I recall well you told you went to MC, you were requested to change, to fullfill some of your wife's needs she complained. You told us you just matained the status quo, didn't try to fix it. I asumed that MC sessions were not that long ago, at least before she started the online stuff.
Another date to put things in perspective is when your own EA happened, What did you do back then, did you deal with it properly? Did you just put it under the carpet?

Again, those things may help to put things in perspective, never used as excuse for her cheating, but will provide some info about where is her mind in the marriage. Maybe she's not interested actually in R but just financialy trapped.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Sorrry, maybe I'm thinking in another poster. If I recall well you told you went to MC, you were requested to change, to fullfill some of your wife's needs she complained. You told us you just matained the status quo, didn't try to fix it. I asumed that MC sessions were not that long ago, at least before she started the online stuff.
> 
> Different set of counseling sessions, several years ago. I didn't do what I was "supposed" to do. I blew it, and didn't respond to her needs, so, years later (now) she has this reaction by seeking out the OM.
> 
> ...


Although we are, pretty much, financially trapped, I don't think this is her reason for R. She loves me and wants to make this work as much as I do. She just went off, and now we need to deal with it. If it doesn't work then a lot of the advice here will have turned out to be well-founded. Until then, I still seek stories where things DID work out. I remain ever the optimist.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

bobka said:


> * I remain ever the optimist*.


Thus the problem...


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Thus the problem...


So, bigtone, where are you today? Reconciled or moved on to another relationship. Or just on your own?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

I am on my own - dated a bit since the affair - but realized it will take a bit before I get to get over what happened - truth is, I am having trouble trusting women since...I see everything in a different light...it has changed me as a person.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I am reminded of that one scene in "Robin Hood: Men in Tights", that toilet clogger of a film.

At one point, Maid Marian tells the Sheriff of Rottingham "I'll be yours, but you will never own my soul. My heart will never ever belong to you."

Sheriff: "Does that mean I get sex every day and the occasionally nooner?"

Marian: Puzzled "Yes..."

Sheriff: "Okay, I'm good with that."

Bobka is a nice 'half a loaf' kind of guy.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

JCD said:


> I am reminded of that one scene in "Robin Hood: Men in Tights", that toilet clogger of a film.
> 
> At one point, Maid Marian tells the Sheriff of Rottingham "I'll be yours, but you will never own my soul. My heart will never ever belong to you."
> 
> ...


And that is meant to help me how?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

JCD said:


> I am reminded of that one scene in "Robin Hood: Men in Tights", that toilet clogger of a film.
> 
> At one point, Maid Marian tells the Sheriff of Rottingham "I'll be yours, but you will never own my soul. My heart will never ever belong to you."
> 
> ...


Sadly, so was I - one of the lessons I learned - next relationship I want someone who is (as in poker) "all in"


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

So where is your line? Your breaking point? And when will she finally cross it to the point of where you say "No more."

If your wife wants to go on another vacation, will you say no? And if she says "Too bad, I'm going to go anyway," how will you respond?

Will you say "Well, when you are ready to reoncile, come home." 

Or will you say "I'll get you the divorce papers to sign before you get on the plane. Don't bother buying a return flight."

Because I honestly believe you can't choose which of those you would do. You would be too conflicted to do either.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Juicer said:


> So where is your line? Your breaking point? And when will she finally cross it to the point of where you say "No more."
> 
> If your wife wants to go on another vacation, will you say no? And if she says "Too bad, I'm going to go anyway," how will you respond?
> 
> ...


Juicer, I had actually downloaded divorce papers and told my wife upon her return that I was considering acting on that. She was surprised, and that snapped her back a bit, I think.

As far as this ever happening again, no, it couldn't. If she is that unhappy with me (as opposed to confused about how she feels), then she needs to go, and I need to let her go. I do not want to be by myself, but to be with a wife that is that unhappy, why would you do it?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

bobka said:


> And that is meant to help me how?


Some people are happy with half a loaf. Nothing wrong with it. Some pole are still left with some crAvings, though and wonder why their relationship isn't 'fulfilling'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Silverlining (Jan 15, 2012)

bobka said:


> *I do not want to be by myself*, but to be with a wife that is that unhappy, why would you do it?


By golly, I think were getting somewhere. 

You do not want to be by yourself!

If you loved yourself and were OK with you, then you wouldn't be in this situation. Your wife is treating you like dog doo doo because you are allowing her to. You are not standing up for you. If you don't put yourself first, no one else will. You are afraid to be alone! You have abandonment issues. IMO

Hello? McFly???

Your wife is not happy. That's Why She Is Doing This!!! I guess her being only a little unhappy is Ok, as long as she stays married to you. If she was happy then she would not be confused. 

You are just not getting it. 

If you loved her you would never want her to be confused and stuck in a semi-happy marriage. If you loved yourself, you would never allow yourself to be treated like this. 

Work on you. I don't think you like yourself very much hence the reason why you are allowing this to happen to you. 

If you liked yourself, then being alone is nothing to be afraid of.

How's the world look through those rose colored glasses, or should I say horse blinders.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Silverlining said:


> Work on you. I don't think you like yourself very much hence the reason why you are allowing this to happen to you.
> 
> If you liked yourself, then being alone is nothing to be afraid of.
> 
> How's the world look through those rose colored glasses, or should I say horse blinders.


This. :iagree:

Bobka, I have read through many threads and except maybe for Bottle, I do not believe I have ever run across a poster with so little self-esteem or self-respect.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So at the moment you guys are broke AND it turns out you are paying for her two week sex vacation with the OM.

She's not following up with this OM because of chemistry, which you know means the sex was either very very bad, or he had done really freaky stuff he wanted her to do.

So she's back, expecting you to pay for her two week sex trip with the OM.

And she's back until she finds the next guy who turns out to be better than this dud, or until she gives him a second chance.

Has she given you full transparency? Has she sad she would pay fir her sexcation?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You don't want to be alone.

That is what I took from all of this.

So you take her crap because you don't want to be alone. It makes sense. Problem is, what's wrong with being alone?


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

I believe bobka has made it clear. This is her one and only chance. sex no sex....he wants to try and R.
personally, I don't want to be alone either. It probably played a small part in choosing R for me. However I too said one chance after dday. I wont tolerate another A. I really don't think bobka will either.
we are all getting hung up on what his wife did, fact is, many of us in R had wives do far worse. Mine in particular, yet, I chose to R and we are doing very well. No half loaf either. We are both all in so to speak. 

If both parties are all in, giving it there all then R is possible. And you don't have to do it by TAM guidelines. Every relationship is different and every R is different. Bobka has hope and who are we to crush his spirit. Perhaps you hard liners are right ...but maybe just maybe you are wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> I believe bobka has made it clear. This is her one and only chance. sex no sex....he wants to try and R.
> personally, I don't want to be alone either. It probably played a small part in choosing R for me. However I too said one chance after dday. I wont tolerate another A. I really don't think bobka will either.
> we are all getting hung up on what his wife did, fact is, *many of us in R had wives do far worse. Mine in particular,* yet, I chose to R and we are doing very well. No half loaf either. We are both all in so to speak.
> 
> ...




Seriously??? You must be married to a real B!tch!!! j/k 

Thanks Babe..... I appreciate that sweet little *"bolded"* sentiment!!!


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

JCD said:


> *Bobka is a nice 'half a loaf' kind of guy.*


*"We can use this forum for good or use it to tear others down. The way you choose to use it speaks of your character, only,.... not the one whose character you are scrutinizing." ~EI*


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Some people are willing to accept not just imperfect (Lord we ALL have them), but seriously flawed marriages. Women are famous for accepting a lot 'for the kids'. Everyone has a threshold of what they want. As long as Bobka gets his needs met (much like the sheriff) more power to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> Seriously??? You must be married to a real B!tch!!! j/k


Easy there Empty. Some men just make up there minds whether they want to keep talking and get in deep sh!t or keep it to themselves be happy.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Easy there Empty. Some men just make up there minds whether they want to keep talking and get in deep sh!t or keep it to themselves be happy.


You know he's my husband, right? ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Wow my friend. I am sorry you are here. Please get the book. *Not Just Friends* by Shirely Glass. You are justifying your wifes actions and confusing true remorse for sadness that things didn't work out. *Not Just Friends* is very readable, but will give you insight into infidelity and prepare you for what lies ahead (which I am afraid is more heartache)

Good luck.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But I just feel if he worked on himself, he'd understand the relationship better.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

that_girl said:


> You don't want to be alone.
> 
> That is what I took from all of this.
> 
> So you take her crap because you don't want to be alone. It makes sense. Problem is, what's wrong with being alone?


Are you alone? Did you wind up alone as the result of an A? IF so, how is that going?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> Seriously??? You must be married to a real B!tch!!! j/k
> 
> Thanks Babe..... I appreciate that sweet little *"bolded"* sentiment!!!


I'm not sure there's a better or a worse situation. A breach of trust is a breach of trust. Now, serial As are different, if they happen within the process of R, for sure, but what's done is done. 

If this happened again, there would be no leniency. It would be a done deal. I don't expect that to happen, but now I am fully aware that _anything_ can happen. Never thought an A would rock my world, but then again, W probably thought the same thing when she disovered my EA.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

JCD said:


> Some people are willing to accept not just imperfect (Lord we ALL have them), but seriously flawed marriages. Women are famous for accepting a lot 'for the kids'. Everyone has a threshold of what they want. As long as Bobka gets his needs met (much like the sheriff) more power to him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My marriage was imperfect before the A, and is now much less perfect. In an odd way, it gives us a chance to reassess and look at the marriage hard in ways we never would have before. 

I hate to go here because of possible flak, but is it possible that one could build a _better_ marriage because of the scrutiny and resulting work done on the marriage? I'm not saying that that's what I expect, but does anyone here see it that way?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You've asked for stories from people who have tried what you are trying, but you also say your story is unique. As I recall, you first posted that you had essentially made a 'roommate' out of your wife and after more than 15 years, she was fed up. You sounded like you didn't really blame her for the feelings she was having.

For this part of it, I can tell you that my H and I recovered our marriage after about the same number of years, and facing issues that we both assumed were intractable. If you are interested, I will detail. We have been happy for another 15 years and the one thing I learned is that people can change for the better, your life can change for the better.

I didn't, however, throw up my hands and head off with another M to test possibly happier waters. Your understanding for your wife's motivations for doing this is itself understandable given the circumstances, but the fact that she actually did it changes your calculus considerably.

You posted that the 'roommate' situation derived primarily from low libido from bipolar medications. You also say that you are addressing your issues. Has this been successfully addressed?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> You've asked for stories from people who have tried what you are trying, but you also say your story is unique. As I recall, you first posted that you had essentially made a 'roommate' out of your wife and after more than 15 years, she was fed up. You sounded like you didn't really blame her for the feelings she was having.
> 
> For this part of it, I can tell you that my H and I recovered our marriage after about the same number of years, and facing issues that we both assumed were intractable. If you are interested, I will detail. We have been happy for another 15 years and the one thing I learned is that people can change for the better, your life can change for the better.
> 
> ...


There will need to be a meds change to truly address the heart of the matter, and I am exploring that now, which means, I am about to ramp down one anti-psychotic drug that I take that completely kills my libido. 

The underlying issues I have with intamacy are harder to work on, because current therapy methods concentrate on looking at what you are doing and making changes to that, rather than walking back through what might have caused the problem in the first place and dealing with it from there. So I am hoping that marriage counseling with someone different from my IC will work that aspect, and help my W and I to come to terms, and me to be able to step up to where I need to be. But that's really all within me, and I know that. 

What my wife did was wrong, there is no doubt, and what I did, too, was wrong. And of course two wrongs never make a right. 

Please do detail your situation, and how your R has gone. Another question: why are you here?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

> Why are you here?


If you refuse to take advice, I might ask the same thing.

alte Dame is correct you can make your marriage better, just as you suspected...when you have *TWO* committed partners trying to stick it out.

That means she orders from the price fixe menu, not floating around the buffet.

You are wiping your forehead in relief you are a better option than THIS GUY. But you are not better than ALL guys.

I'm not there. Is she showing ANY remorse? And I don't mean the little sadness at her having trashed her reputation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

JCD said:


> If you refuse to take advice, I might ask the same thing.
> 
> alte Dame is correct you can make your marriage better, just as you suspected...when you have *TWO* committed partners trying to stick it out.
> 
> ...


I _am_ better than all guys. 

Yes, she has shown remorse, knows how much pain it caused me. 

I am here because I wanted stories of successful reconciliations, stories from people who had dug out from under the horror of an A and moved on to where things worked again. I'm still hoping to get some of that.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

So...saving Wazza and Mr. Blunt, do ANY of the success stories have the BS behaving as you did? And even Wazza did a hard 180.

So what in YOUR actions mimics theirs? Damn little. Do you think you will get similar results?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I think once you can look at your WS and not feel resentment over the affair, then you'd probably consider it a successful reconciliation. To some, just going out to dinner without bringing up the affair is successful. Still others might think the idea of a successful reconciliation is impossible because you can never undo the horrible things, yet they can still find some amount of satisfaction in their current relationship.

I don't think there's ever a one size fits all way of reconciliation. It's all about every unique situation and the individuals involved.

Regret and I are working on reconciliation. We have a long way to go. To me though, being where we are today IS a success.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

bobka said:


> There will need to be a meds change to truly address the heart of the matter, and I am exploring that now, which means, I am about to ramp down one anti-psychotic drug that I take that completely kills my libido.
> 
> The underlying issues I have with intamacy are harder to work on, because current therapy methods concentrate on looking at what you are doing and making changes to that, rather than walking back through what might have caused the problem in the first place and dealing with it from there. So I am hoping that marriage counseling with someone different from my IC will work that aspect, and help my W and I to come to terms, and me to be able to step up to where I need to be. But that's really all within me, and I know that.
> 
> ...


Last question first: I am here because the infidelity issue has plagued me for a very long time & being here helps me learn, especially about how men are thinking. There is in my own experience a huge gulf between how men perceive their relationships and how women view them. This is clearly reflected in how they communicate with one another & how they interpret their communication.

I have several relationships in my past that included infidelity & have never been able to cope with it. I have many years of being in a high-risk marriage in terms of unfaithfulness & very much need to learn to deal with it.

As far as my own marriage recovery - my H and I had longstanding, serious issues, but we also had two small children, a good sex life & some obvious chemistry. These three things kept us going for years even though none of the serious problems ever got any better. He travelled extensively & was extremely ambitious professionally. I had my own career and felt basically like a single mother with the added stress of a H that wafted in and out of the household at appointed times (appointed by him). He had no desire to tank a successful, promising career for a failing marriage & I had no desire to sacrifice the last bit of myself to keep his career going, esp. if our marriage stank. Thus, we were stuck. That's really the word - we both felt hopelessly stuck, trapped.

What I did was draw a line in the sand by writing out a formal contract that specified my conditions for continuing our marriage. My H read it, said he thought my conditions were reasonable, but didn't think it was possible for him to accommodate them because of his career. But the contract had broken the logjam that was our perpetual expression of our grief and unhappiness.

We started talking more productively. I started seeing him more sympathetically. I found an IC who helped me tremendously. The process of finding a better place for ourselves was gradual, but I could feel some hope almost immediately.

Again, I didn't choose to run off with another M. I seriously don't know what my H would have done if that had happened. I did tell him that I was leaving and taking the children. We lived in a foreign country, so that was a very serious change for him.

I do believe that your situation is non-standard, so you can take bits and pieces of other people's experiences to perhaps help you. For what it's worth, that was my experience.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Empty Inside said:


> You know he's my husband, right? ;-)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep! After following your/his post, I don't see you as doing "much worse" than the other folks. I guess I need to stay out of something that ain't none of my business.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> I think once you can look at your WS and not feel resentment over the affair, then you'd probably consider it a successful reconciliation. To some, just going out to dinner without bringing up the affair is successful. Still others might think the idea of a successful reconciliation is impossible because you can never undo the horrible things, yet they can still find some amount of satisfaction in their current relationship.
> 
> I don't think there's ever a one size fits all way of reconciliation. It's all about every unique situation and the individuals involved.
> 
> ...


That's what's so crazy about all this - every situation is so unique. I don't know when I'll (or if I'll) ever get to the point where I don't resent the A. I thought my W had let go of resentment about my A, and now I come to find out that this isn't true at all. It's almost as if this A was in retaliation for mine, even though it was so long ago.

That's why I came hunting here, looking to hear stories of success (yes, and failure) at trying to "fix what's broken."

I applaud you for seeing that where you are today is a measure of success.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Last question first: I am here because the infidelity issue has plagued me for a very long time & being here helps me learn, especially about how men are thinking. There is in my own experience a huge gulf between how men perceive their relationships and how women view them. This is clearly reflected in how they communicate with one another & how they interpret their communication.
> 
> I have several relationships in my past that included infidelity & have never been able to cope with it. I have many years of being in a high-risk marriage in terms of unfaithfulness & very much need to learn to deal with it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing this. That's what I do, glean bits and pieces and try to apply them the best way I know how. I have, if you have been watching, which it appears that you have, taken a lot of heat for both accepting what my wife did, and wanting to reconcile nonetheless. Unless she does something like this again, it is my mission to get things right. I cannot let something that happened in the past rule my entire future. Yes, I saw it coming, was warned it was coming, and some folks would claim that I even condoned it, but of course I didn't. She did it, it's done, and we have to move on.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

please find a pair of pants!!


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

kenmoore14217 said:


> please find a pair of pants!!


I have them on now.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

bobka said:


> *I am better than all guys.
> *


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

bobka said:


> Thanks for sharing this. That's what I do, *cherry pick* bits and pieces *that aren't too uncomfortable and have little drama* and try to apply them the best way I know how *while ignoring the uncomfortable but effective bits.*. I have, if you have been watching, which it appears that you have, taken a lot of heat for both accepting what my wife did, and wanting to reconcile nonetheless*not because I choose to TRY this, but because I insist on doing it in totally ineffective ways with a PROVEN track record of failure*. Unless she does something like this again*which people tell me is virtually assured*, it is my mission to get things right[B despite how contrary it is to all the success stories and tactics used by previous posters.[/B]. I cannot let something that happened in the past rule my entire future. Yes, I saw it coming, was warned it was coming, and some folks would claim that I even condoned it*because I let my wife go off for a LONG and unsupervised vaction with another man. Why would they think I condoned it when I did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO STOP IT?* She did it, it's done, and we have to move on.



Here, I fixed that for you.


bobka said:


> I have them on now.


Nah...too easy.


It isn't the fact you are reconciling. It is that you are accepting BS rationalizations for her activities. It is that she isn't showing much remorse for her actions as reported by you. It is that she's still wet from her vacation to her lover...excuse me...we're in Egypt. Her *TOTALLY not Physical Emotional Affair*. The cheater told you this herself. Is there ANY reason to doubt her word?

And now you are saying you need to get over it.

Okay. Get over it. Let all the anger and rage go. POOF, it's GONE!

So don't be angry. If you won't demand any concessions from her, if she's coping an attitude, if she isn't remorseful, than yes, I think you are doing it EXACTLY the proper way. YOU can only change YOU. 

So learn to live with the person your wife is. Cope.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

JCD said:


> Here, I fixed that for you.
> 
> 
> Nah...too easy.
> ...


I think that your going in an editing my original post was going a little too far. If it's quoted like that, that won't be accurate.

I'm really sorry that things have gone so wrong with your marriage that it has caused you to lash out with such anger. I would have hoped that you could have reconciled with your wife and perhaps moved on to have a fulfilling, if perhaps cautious, relationship.

I hope you can get a handle on your anger and treat people with respect in the future. It would be good for your soul.


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## giashasa2012 (Aug 16, 2012)

Bobka I hope that you don't wake up one day alone and realize what a waste of energy and time this reconciliation of yours is.

You are an optimist ,but never forget to be an optimist is to have delusions or to choose them over truth ,that is sometimes a very helpful attribute - attitude to overcome a hopeless situation, but mostly its a recipe of failure .

It gives you the energy the stamina to fight, to keep walking but it also takes away your vision , your ability to recognize the dangers , the pitfalls and the traps in front of you . 

Your are walking blind and only if your are lucky you will succeed

If you truly wish to reconcile , there must be consequences for her.
Not only hugging kissing and rug sweeping
And you must see her for what she is , and stop trying to defend her action . You must de-Fog yourself 

What she did was beyond cruel, its one thing to have an affair another to say and do it : "honey I will go with my possible future BF-HUSBAND vacation to test him if he is better then you , and if you are lucky and he is not, I will come back to you "

I can understand the fog , partially , I can understand that in the fog your thinking is distorted ,but I believe this intoxication brings to the surface what is in someone . 

And its no excuse for some ones actions . And one thing that came to surface is her complete disrespect for you and total lack of carrying for you . 


And again stop trying to defend her
You sound like some abused women ( not to insult you ) who are trying to defend the action of there drunken husbands and are saying :" he was drunk ,he didn't know what he did , when he is sober he is so loving , the alcohol did it ,....... " and all this with broken bones , blue eyes 

With hugging and kissing and lot of sex , nothing changes . When they will drink again ( and they will ) they will beat them again.

You said you are here to find success stories , you are trying to reinforce your delusions .
What you need is to read some of the other stories to learn from them


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

bobka said:


> I think that your going in an editing my original post was going a little too far. If it's quoted like that, that won't be accurate.
> 
> I'm really sorry that things have gone so wrong with your marriage that it has caused you to lash out with such anger. I would have hoped that you could have reconciled with your wife and perhaps moved on to have a fulfilling, if perhaps cautious, relationship.
> 
> I hope you can get a handle on your anger and treat people with respect in the future. It would be good for your soul.


Well, as a matter of fact, I did what you are doing for 17 years of my marriage (sort of): I told my wife that I didn't believe in divorce, and that I would never pull the trigger on my marriage_for the children..._

First, this was a HUGE mistake because it told my wife she could treat me anyway she wanted to and I'd put up with it. Well,* my wife* has morals and character (or I'm terribly blind) but AFAIK, she never cheated. But that doesn't mean we didn't do little mean things to one another which drove us both to the brink.

Second it put the onus for a failed marriage on her, which she was loathe to do understandably. Because of 'the children.'

Well we reached a tipping point and I decided that being that miserable was no longer an option. I found out that I COULD live without her and I COULD have a life after her.

So divorce was suddenly on the table. She threatened (She had done so many times before) and* I took her up on her offer*. No caving. No 'nice'ing. I told her that our relationship was messed up enough that I didn't want the status quo she was offering. (yes, there was an EA of sorts involved, but that is sort of incidental to the story). If we didn't fix anything, I was out the door. Big D was staring both of us in the face...and we both blinked.

We communicated. We listened. We understood that there were SEVERE consequences for all of us.

We are in month 9 of an R and we both know that the other person will NOT take any more nonsense and to even 'threaten' divorce will pull the trigger. To even CONTACT another person in an EA or PA will end the marriage. Period! Exclaimation Point! Without looking back.

(My wife tried her old tactics ONCE. I started packing. That minute! People are human so I gave her that ONE warning. She doesn't take me for granted anymore)

So the 180 and actually BACKING UP YOUR WORDS has a track record.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

giashasa2012 said:


> Bobka I hope that you don't wake up one day alone and realize what a waste of energy and time this reconciliation of yours is.
> 
> You are an optimist ,but never forget to be an optimist is to have delusions or to choose them over truth ,that is sometimes a very helpful attribute - attitude to overcome a hopeless situation, but mostly its a recipe of failure .
> 
> ...


I read all of the stories, but it's hard sometimes to wade through all the flames to get to the positive stuff. I don't ignore the advice I get here, I just hoped it would be more balanced.

I've thought of posting "I've filed for divorce, done the 180, thrown her stuff out on the lawn, etc." just to get some good feelings on this board. But that would be a lie.


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

So what's really worse a spouse that cheats behind our backs like most of the cases here or one that says right up front, I'm going to cheat?
to me cheating is cheating and the requirements to R are the same for either, if of course thats what you BOTH want to do.

bobkas wife was finished with him, done, checked out. And she told him she was leaving for another.
Now she's back, he has said shes sorry and regretful. The one thing she didnt do is deceive and very possibly hasn't lied either. Can any of us in R say this about our spouse? lying and deceiving is just part of an affair. Many of us know for a fact our spouse had sex. Yet we are currently in a successful R. 

For what it's worth my wife told me she would have passion with or without me. Well, we know I still didn't step it up and she eventually found it without me. 

Now in saying this, one thing I think bobka needs to NOT do is take blame for the affair. That's on her and that stands on its own and needs to be acknowledged and remorse shown by his wife, among other things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Yep! After following your/his post, I don't see you as doing "much worse" than the other folks. I guess I need to stay out of something that ain't none of my business.


no way ...

for the record I will never forget you were the first to read between the lines and really GET our situation. Your wisdom is greatly appreciated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

If she was dissatisfied with his lack of passion, she should have divorced him, not kept him as a meal ticket while she took other people for a test drive.

I would understand if she did that.

I would even understand if she did it BEHIND HIS BACK. That would be a desperate woman seeking some sexual contact. Not totally exculpatory, but 'guilty with an explanation'.

But she didn't. She went 100% cruel. She TOLD him.

Now, the only even slightly mitigating factor she might pull out of her ass is if it was a stupid "I Love Lucy" idea, where she went there for two weeks watching movies and playing solitaire on her computer in the hopes that her husband would show enough self respect and desire to tear over there and drag her sorry ass home.

Sadly, that did not happen.

But I don't think she was temporarily redheaded. I think she was cruel. I think she got a firm measure of the man and she is empowered. What she next decides to do with that power will be interesting to see.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

"You two sound very pragmatic about how you deal with things. I can see how you have worked things out. It seems a bit clinical, but you have dealt with things in a way that worked for both of you."

Actually, this wasn't pragmatic. It was a desperate, last-ditch effort on my part to communicate clearly after years of talking at cross-purposes. It wasn't at all clinical. It was my issuing an ultimatum, finally, after so many years of fighting.


"So, his ambition and the way it took him away from you was the intractable issue?"

How his ambition affected me created many intractable issues. For a long time it was absolute and the effect was to leave me exhausted, doing everything for everyone, and always picking up the pieces. At the same time, I really got his desire to lead his life the way he wanted to - I wanted to do the same thing.

Actual PA's were not an overt issue with us, but EA's were. They were, however, imo a result of the mountain of 'intractable' issues that had accumulated for us.

Your wife has chosen an extreme solution and has disrespected you in the most impossible way. This is why you're getting the response you're getting. That having been said, I can say from experience that you can change your life for the better. You're starting here with a deck very, very stacked against you. I think the people here see that clearly.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> So what's really worse a spouse that cheats behind our backs like most of the cases here or one that says right up front, I'm going to cheat?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well to answer the question - they are both the same - my ex also told me she was going to go elsewhere - BUT AFTER she set it all up and was ready to go. Point being - there was deception all along - once she had another beau in the wings then and only then was she forthcoming about problems in the relationship. So, in my mind, in one case the person doesnt tell and is being deceptive and the other case the person is being deceptive and *pretending* to be honest.....I woud much prefer the first case...to be honest.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Maybe she will never again come into contact with another man who will be willing to have an affair with her. But, I doubt it.


There will always be a scumbag ready to screw someone else's spouse..trust me....and if she doesnt find someone with ethical morals, she will look to find someone else. It is just the way it is.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Yep! After following your/his post, I don't see you as doing "much worse" than the other folks. I guess I need to stay out of something that ain't none of my business.


Absolutely not, Fv, you were the first person on TAM to say one kind word to me and to acknowledge that I was in a very difficult situation prior to my affair. You were able to, unapologetically, say things that no WS, who is currently on the hot seat on TAM, would dare to say. I had no hope, belief, and very little desire at the time that my marriage could/should be saved. B1 and I are, honestly, in a better place than we have EVER been in our entire relationship, now. But, had it not have been for your words of compassion and understanding for my pain and acknowledgement that serious problems in the marriage do not excuse but CAN AND DO CONTRIBUTE to the reason that some choose to have an affair, I never would have stuck around TAM long enough to weed out the "weeds" and benefit from the "good stuff." 

So, I actually think you helped save our marriage. I'm a fan!!! Thanks!

Take care,
~EI
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## giashasa2012 (Aug 16, 2012)

_.....
When people use phrases like "total lack of caring," I wonder if they realize how wrong that phraseology is? My wife never stopped caring for me. She just cared more about herself than how I felt. There's a difference there, and absolutes don't work here. ....._ (bobka)

Yes there is a difference there but also the result for you is the same.

For me the quantity of a feeling does matter but what equally matters is to what result (how it impacts me)

Even if someone love me very much ( not just cares about me)
when he is selfish he is selfish ,nothing is left for me

It's a little difficult to explain for me because i don't know your language very good but I will use a crude example 

If her feelings for me can be quantified as 10 (F)
And her selfishness can be quantified as 20 (S)
Then the result (R) for me can be calculated by the equation 
R=F-S 
R=10 -20 = -10

Anything under 0 as result does negate the purpose of love or carrying and does render the existence of this feelings into non-existence for me ( there are equal to 0 , F=0 )



Everything is relative but we need absolutes to be able to think.
We need them as a reference frames 
I know the trappings of absolutes


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## giashasa2012 (Aug 16, 2012)

_.....
When people use phrases like "total lack of caring," I wonder if they realize how wrong that phraseology is? My wife never stopped caring for me. She just cared more about herself than how I felt. There's a difference there, and absolutes don't work here. ....._ (bobka)

Yes there is a difference there but also the result for you is the same.

For me the quantity( intensity ) of a feeling does matter but what equally matters is to what result (how it impacts me)

Even if someone love me very much ( not just cares about me)
when he is selfish he is selfish ,nothing is left for me

It's a little difficult to explain for me because i don't know your language very good but I will use a crude example 

If her feelings for me can be quantified as 10 (F)
And her selfishness can be quantified as 20 (S)
Then the result (R) for me can be calculated by the equation 
R=F-S 
R=10 -20 = -10

Anything under 0 as result does negate the purpose of love or carrying in a realationship and does render the existence of this feelings into non-existence for me ( there are equal to 0 , F=0 )



Everything is relative but we need absolutes to be able to think.
We need them as a reference frames.
And we need them sometimes to simplify complex situation to be able to calculate (think) solutions to our problems 
I know the trappings of absolutes and simplifications


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

giashasa2012 said:


> _.....
> When people use phrases like "total lack of caring," I wonder if they realize how wrong that phraseology is? My wife never stopped caring for me. She just cared more about herself than how I felt. There's a difference there, and absolutes don't work here. ....._ (bobka)
> 
> Yes there is a difference there but also the result for you is the same.
> ...


Nobody told me there would be math!


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## giashasa2012 (Aug 16, 2012)

A crude example maybe not the best but selfishness negates any feelings that she my have towards you. 

This feelings are nothing worth , and to take them in account is only to try sugarcoat the affair

But an affair is a bitter pill, tough to sugarcoat even tougher to swallow


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I was trying to think of how your wife looked at things.

Her first foray into infidelity. She was certain enough about this guy (unless it was a put up job) that she THREW it in bobka's face. She seperated from her husband. She went away for two weeks.

And she wasn't good enough. The guy ditched her. He told her she wasn't good enough for him.

Do you have any idea how devestating that is for a woman who just threw all her chips into the pot.

And he wasn't interested. Not enough to keep her. Oh, he might have used her.

Now, if this was the case, she's a walking wound. 

I don't know how this helps. If she really regreted her actions, I'm not sure how she'd react. A very dignified woman would hide her pain no matter what.

But she might thinks she's already ruined things.

I honestly thinks she needs this pain. I don't feel sympathetic for her at all, even if I understand her pain. Because of how she treated YOU, bobka.

YOU have my sympathy...even if you're doing all the wrong things


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> no way ...
> 
> for the record I will never forget you were the first to read between the lines and really GET our situation. Your wisdom is greatly appreciated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Empty Inside said:


> Absolutely not, Fv, you were the first person on TAM to say one kind word to me and to acknowledge that I was in a very difficult situation prior to my affair. You were were able to, unapologetically, say things that no WS, who is currently on the hot seat on TAM, would dare to say. I had no hope, belief, and very little desire at the time that my marriage could/should be saved. B1 and I are, honestly, in a better place than we have EVER been in our entire relationship, now. But, had it not have been for your words of compassion and understanding for my pain and acknowledgement that serious problems in the marriage do not excuse but CAN AND DO CONTRIBUTE to the reason that some choose to have an affair, I never would have stuck around TAM long enough to weed out the "weeds" and benefit from the "good stuff."
> 
> So, I actually think you helped save our marriage. I'm a fan!!! Thanks!
> 
> ...


I appreciate it ya'll and wish you two all the luck in your subsequent years together. Every life has it share of wounds and scares and you two seem to survived and rebuilt your marriage. Empty is yours Betrayed, and you are hers. You know that don't you? Like my great uncle (from Breaux Bridge, Louisiana) would say, " if it return to you, its was always yours in da first place. Dieu merci for dat"


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Empty is yours Betrayed, and you are hers. You know that don't you?


Yes.... thank you! B1 and I know that reconciliation is an ongoing process, it's a journey rather than a destination, with all of its peaks and valleys, but for today, I am genuinely happy.... and, believe me when I say, no one is more surprised about that than me.................... Has it been easy? No! It has been the biggest challenge that we've ever faced together, but it has also yielded the greatest rewards. That's the magic of it. WE are facing it together. Today, I am at peace..... Tomorrow the river might be raging... but now, I have B1 by my side to help me brave the rough seas.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

I agree many people are routinely harsh in these situations. Not sure where I'd be without the 2x4 though...probably not where I am. Which is a much better place in life. Party line or not, respecting oneself is of extreme importance, there's really not much else tbh.

Good luck bobka, just please consider your actual happiness in your decisions going forward. Status quo isn't necessarily happiness. I moved on, and as crazy an experience as it was I would have it no other way. I deserved better than I was getting from my xw. Lemme just say how good it feels to be respected and treated well in a new relationship. You can have that too. And it may be with your WW...but it may not. If she does it again, I truly hope you stick to your guns and release her to the single world. Life is too short to fight for someone who isn't fighting for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

Shamwow said:


> I agree many people are routinely harsh in these situations. Not sure where I'd be without the 2x4 though...probably not where I am. Which is a much better place in life. Party line or not, respecting oneself is of extreme importance, there's really not much else tbh.
> 
> Good luck bobka, just please consider your actual happiness in your decisions going forward. Status quo isn't necessarily happiness. I moved on, and as crazy an experience as it was I would have it no other way. I deserved better than I was getting from my xw. Lemme just say how good it feels to be respected and treated well in a new relationship. You can have that too. And it may be with your WW...but it may not. If she does it again, I truly hope you stick to your guns and release her to the single world. Life is too short to fight for someone who isn't fighting for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I've gotten plenty of 2X4s and AK-47s. But I'm strong, and my marriage is working, for now. We're both working it, and that's the way it's got to be. This cannot happen again. 

I'm glad you're in a new relationship that makes you happy. I just can't go there, thinking of anything new, when what's "old" was so good, and can be so good again. It won't be for lack of me trying, and she's there, too. We know that it's make-or-break.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

See you in a few months.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

JCD said:


> See you in a few months.


Why do you say that? I'm here right now, working on my marriage.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

We are now a couple of weeks into reconciliation. We have rejoined each other in the same bedroom (I had moved to the basement when she told me she needed "space"). We are now working on this, drawing closer and talking, talking, talking about everything. She knows how badly what she did hurt me, and has reassured me that she has no desire to look elsewhere. But she has reservations, for sure, about whether our intimacy is going to grow to where she needs it to be. I cannot blame her for this; it's what drove us apart in the first place. I can only work this aspect from my end and do everything I can to reassure her that my goal is to give her what she needs in this marriage that she was not getting. That is my challenge.

Details on this aspect of our relationship will be hard to work out here, publicly on the board, as they are just too personal, but I will share what I can. We want to be a R success story.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Is she completely honest with you? Is she ready to take a polygraph if need be?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Is she completely honest with you? Is she ready to take a polygraph if need be?


I don't think we need to go the polygraph route. You see, she has been completely transparent with me about all this, even throughout the EA. I just didn't take it for being an affair until recently. I thought it was a friendship (yeah, I know, that's always how it starts), then it became more, then she eventually let me _know_ that her feelings for this guy were moving beyond friendship, and that's when she asked for a separation. 

At that point, I knew that things were very wrong, and went through the 5 stages of grieving. And then she decided she wanted to see this guy in person and see if a; she wanted more than an EA and b; whether she valued our marriage enough to return to it. 

So I had several choices, and one was to wait it out. I did download divorce papers and was ready to present them if this thing had grown to be something that we couldn't get past.

She has returned, and is still completely transparent, as far as I can see. I have not presented her with D papers because we are in the process of working things out, which is working pretty well so far.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

bobka said:


> We are now a couple of weeks into reconciliation. We have rejoined each other in the same bedroom (I had moved to the basement when she told me she needed "space"). We are now working on this, drawing closer and talking, talking, talking about everything. She knows how badly what she did hurt me, and has reassured me that she has no desire to look elsewhere. *But she has reservations, for sure, about whether our intimacy is going to grow to where she needs it to be. I cannot blame her for this; it's what drove us apart in the first place. I can only work this aspect from my end and do everything I can to reassure her that my goal is to give her what she needs in this marriage that she was not getting. That is my challenge.*
> 
> Details on this aspect of our relationship will be hard to work out here, publicly on the board, as they are just too personal, but I will share what I can. We want to be a R success story.


You understand that reads like this - my wife had an EA, traveled to meet the OM in person, decided she didn't like him so much, so now I'm kissing her ass. You see that don't you?

However, there is always another side. Is she working as hard as you are? Really??


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

bobka said:


> I don't think we need to go the polygraph route. You see, she has been completely transparent with me about all this, even throughout the EA. I just didn't take it for being an affair until recently. I thought it was a friendship (yeah, I know, that's always how it starts), then it became more, then she eventually let me _know_ that her feelings for this guy were moving beyond friendship, and that's when she asked for a separation.
> 
> At that point, I knew that things were very wrong, and went through the 5 stages of grieving. And then she decided she wanted to see this guy in person and see if a; she wanted more than an EA and b; whether she valued our marriage enough to return to it.
> 
> ...


Bob, you don't understand my point. Will she take a polygraph test if you press her?


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Bob, you don't understand my point. Will she take a polygraph test if you press her?


Yes, I imagine she would if I pressed her.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

You won't ever know unless you ask


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> You understand that reads like this - my wife had an EA, traveled to meet the OM in person, decided she didn't like him so much, so now I'm kissing her ass. You see that don't you?
> 
> However, there is always another side. Is she working as hard as you are? Really??


My concern exactly - lemme get this straight - she does wrong, puts you in a vulnerable position, totally blind-sides you, not as long as you meet HER standards your marriage is salvageable, if not - well it is up in the air.....sorry but your talking to someone who has been there - it is like this....................

I do not respect you as a person but there is no one out there YET but seeing as there are no consequences for looking we'll "play it by ear" (a phrase often used by my ex) which basically means "I'll keep looking until something more suitable comes along".

And once I find him, I will drop you like a bad habit and tell everyone we know what a horrible person you are and how "it was over for years" so I can openly pursue someone I respect and admire.

Good luck and ike someone else said - see you back here in the near future.....


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You say she is being transparent.

Have you got all her passwords?

Are you seeing her mail and texts to the OM?

Have you seen all the mail and texts to/from the OM leading up to her going to be with him?

Btw . How is she planning on paying back what she spent visiting the OM?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I guess I'm not completely in the chorus here because of the 'making her a roommate' and how you did that over the years. These details put a different filter on it for me, so I'll wait and see what you report as things develop. Needless to say, I'm hoping for a result for you that puts you in a better place. (Just am not sure what that is...)


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