# I just told my husband that I want a divorce



## Running Mom

I'm not sure how I feel. Guilty, I guess. I know I really hurt his feelings but I have been unhappy for a long time. I know he is, too, I just don't think he wants to admit it (at least, that is what I'm telling myself right now to make myself feel less guilty). We just aren't meeting each others needs anymore. We don't have much in common anymore. We don't have much between us anymore except our kids. (There hasn't been any cheating and not to trivialize anything any of you betrayed spouses have been through, but I almost think it would have been easier if he had cheated. It would have been a clear-cut reason to split up.) I know he is hurt and angry and I'm trying not to let what he's saying right now really get to me. He thinks I've been lying to him over the past couple of years as we've worked through our issues. I don't think I was lying - I felt like I was trying and I really wanted to believe that we could work things out. Now I've just gotten to the point where I don't want to try anymore because I just don't see us having a happy future. I don't regret anything that happened in our marriage. I am very scared about the future, about how the kids will react (although, honestly, I don't think they will be all that surprised), how I am going to cope, how I will be happy. I really feel like this is the best decision for me, though. 

It gets better, right?


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## flyhigher

This takes a lot of guts and I admire that!

I've been wanting to have this conversation with my husband, but I keep postponing it due to fear. I can't say it will get better; but I'm definitely hoping, for you, that it gets much, much better!!!


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## 3Xnocharm

Yes, it does get better, but you will have to deal with some crappy things to get there. Congrats to you on coming to a decision, I know how hard it is.


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## GuyInColorado

Yep, hardest thing ever. Time heals all pain. And times flies! Good luck, only you can make yourself happy.


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## Young at Heart

Running Mom said:


> ....we just aren't meeting each others needs anymore. We don't have much in common anymore. We don't have much between us anymore except our kids.
> 
> ....*He thinks I've been lying to him over the past couple of years as we've worked through our issues.* I don't think I was lying - I felt like I was trying and *I really wanted to believe that we could work things out. Now I've just gotten to the point where I don't want to try anymore because I just don't see us having a happy future.* I don't regret anything that happened in our marriage. I am very scared about the future, about how the kids will react (although, honestly, I don't think they will be all that surprised), how I am going to cope, how I will be happy. I really feel like this is the best decision for me, though.
> 
> It gets better, right?


It sounds like you and your H have been trying for quite a while to work through some issues and you don't see much hope for progress.

If you are asking for permission to divorce that is something I can't give. If you have been trying to work things out, what were the issues, did you have a therapist or councilor, and did you make any progress?

Marriage is hard work and both have to put in the time and effort. I was close to divorce once, but a sex therapist helped us rebuild our marriage. What I decided to do and why I agreed to therapy with my wife, was because I wanted to learn from my mistakes so that if I divorced my wife, I would not make similar relationship mistakes in the future. Let me put that a different way, if you don't figure out what the problems were that led to divorce, you are going to be damaged goods in your next relationship. 

So you can either work on fixing yourself and your current husband, or you can work on fixing youself. 

Good luck.


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## Running Mom

Thanks for the replies and support. This is why I really love this forum! I first wrote this post right after I told him we should split up. A few hours later we talked for hours and hours and have agreed to go to a marriage counselor. Even though we aren't getting divorced right now, I do feel like a huge weight has been lifted just by telling him that it's been on my mind. We've talked about divorce in the past and he's always been the one to bring it up. I thought I was just finally telling him that I agreed. But then he told me that he didn't really want to get divorced - he just sometimes says that because he's hurt and feels like he needs to say something shocking to get me to understand how serious he is. 

He says his only problem with me is that we don't have enough sex. We've been fighting about sex for years now and I'm just so tired of it. If we don't have sex as often as he wants (which he says is way less than he REALLY wants but he's compromising with me), then he gets cranky and withdraws from me and I get very lonely and feel like there is nothing between us and that ALL he wants from me is sex and if he doesn't get that then nothing else I do has any meaning. When he's withdrawn, I don't feel like having sex and we get in this same loop of bad moods and no affection and no sex because there are bad moods and no affection. 

Hopefully a marriage counselor can help us communicate a little better.


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## Running Mom

flyhigher said:


> This takes a lot of guts and I admire that!
> 
> I've been wanting to have this conversation with my husband, but I keep postponing it due to fear. I can't say it will get better; but I'm definitely hoping, for you, that it gets much, much better!!!


I was afraid for a very long time before telling him. I would try to forget about divorce and keep trying to make him happy. I would push my own feelings aside. But I found that I spent so much time in my own head trying to solve our marital issues that I was actually making it worse. I need to remember why I love my husband and why we have been married so long and I need to trust that I can talk to him. He was very angry at first and I just had to deal with that. But then we had a reasonable (albeit tear-filled) talk and I am feeling much better today. I just hope this lasts for us. 

I think one thing that actually made it easier is knowing that I could survive on my own if we actually did get divorced. Ironically, I think that might make me a better wife. Perhaps I won't be so willing to ignore my own needs in some misguided effort to only keep him happy and not myself, too (which will just lead to resentment). 

Good luck to you!


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## jorgegene

Glad you have decided to give it one more try.

I hope your counselor is a good one. there are many things you can do to try and reconnect.
hopefully your counselor gets you both going in that direction. 

as far as hubby goes; how often does he want sex? how much is he willing to compromise. how much is ok with you?
hopefully you can work this out and meet in the middle. is he a good man otherwise?

keep us posted.


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## Melrose8888

Wow, this could have been me and my stbxw writing this (before she cheated...).

It's a really brave step you've taken but a positive one, no matter what the outcome is here. As others have said, you will both learn and grow from MC, even if it results in a separation, it can be positive for your future.

Just be thankful that neither of you have taken the unhappiness and parked it in a new relationship.

Good luck to you both. I hope to see happy updates from you in the future!


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Running Mom said:


> He says his only problem with me is that we don't have enough sex. We've been fighting about sex for years now and I'm just so tired of it. If we don't have sex as often as he wants (which he says is way less than he REALLY wants but he's compromising with me), then he gets cranky and withdraws from me and I get very lonely and feel like there is nothing between us and that ALL he wants from me is sex and if he doesn't get that then nothing else I do has any meaning. When he's withdrawn, I don't feel like having sex and we get in this same loop of bad moods and no affection and no sex because there are bad moods and no affection.
> 
> Hopefully a marriage counselor can help us communicate a little better.



It's a vicious cycle, isn't it? He wants more sex, but it's hard to want to have sex with someone that's so cranky. Yet, he's cranky because he's not getting it enough. . . . . 

Round and round! 

BTW, him threatening divorce like that is manipulative. And it really makes the communication level decrease dramatically because you become afraid to talk to him. And why? Because he's throws out the divorce word so easily! 

Good for you two on deciding to go with marriage counseling. I hope it helps.


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## Running Mom

jorgegene said:


> Glad you have decided to give it one more try.
> 
> I hope your counselor is a good one. there are many things you can do to try and reconnect.
> hopefully your counselor gets you both going in that direction.
> 
> as far as hubby goes; how often does he want sex? how much is he willing to compromise. how much is ok with you?
> hopefully you can work this out and meet in the middle. is he a good man otherwise?
> 
> keep us posted.


He wants sex every day and I am not exaggerating. It's exhausting to me to even think about sex every day. We've compromised on once a week (on average). But if we go an extra 2-3 days beyond that, he is not a happy camper. He doesn't get angry but he's obviously annoyed with me and that makes me feel pressure to have sex more often and then I get stressed and don't want to have sex. He says he's totally normal for wanting so much sex. I feel like things should be winding down at this point (he's 47) but what do I know - I've only ever talked about sex with him. :smile2:

As for what's OK for me, I really could go much longer - probably a month but I know that wouldn't work for him. I have a very low sex drive but I do have a need to feel close to him which comes from more sex so I try my best for once a week. 

He's pretty awesome. He's not perfect and there are things about him I would like to change (I wish he were more sociable so we could do things outside of the house more often). But he's very smart and strong and self-aware and trying very hard to be a better person. He's also a great father and he loves me more than anyone else in the world. But all his passion and high level of emotion (which manifest as sexual desire, annoyance-bordering-on-anger when he's out in public, super protective of me and the kids, and just generally confrontational) can be overwhelming sometimes and that is what really stresses me out.


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## Running Mom

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> It's a vicious cycle, isn't it? He wants more sex, but it's hard to want to have sex with someone that's so cranky. Yet, he's cranky because he's not getting it enough. . . . .
> 
> Round and round!
> 
> BTW, him threatening divorce like that is manipulative. And it really makes the communication level decrease dramatically because you become afraid to talk to him. And why? Because he's throws out the divorce word so easily!
> 
> Good for you two on deciding to go with marriage counseling. I hope it helps.


I totally agree about him throwing out divorce when he doesn't really mean it. When I went to individual counseling last year, she told me the same thing in a way - that I shouldn't talk about divorce unless I really mean it. I still remember how painful it was the first time he told me we should get divorced. I guess the difference between him telling me and me telling him is that I really meant it and I had a plan. 

I am looking forward to counseling, especially since he's always said in the past that he didn't want to go, not because he didn't want to work on the marriage but because he doesn't like doctors/therapists/counselors. But he got a name from a good friend of his. I figured that my best bet was to let him pick the counselor as that may make him much more likely to open up. The other positive decision we made is that even though right now we feel like we've resolved this particular issue this time, we are still going to go to counseling. Maybe we will get more out of it since we aren't starting from a place of hurt and anger.

Reading through this thread and thinking about how I felt yesterday (wanting a divorce) and how I feel today (not so much), I feel like I'm going crazy. I'm too old for these major emotional swings from high to low.


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## GuyInColorado

I kept going to marriage counseling because I didn't want to lose my house, cars, camper, and not tuck my kids into bed each night. I'd beg her I'd change and things would get better. Dragged it on for 4+ years, 3 counselors, and then finally ran out of money to make me happy. So I finally admitted I wasn't in love with her and left her. Amazing how hard it can be to let go of a bad relationship and start over.

Good luck.


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## x598

well I am going to offer some different advice.

the worn out, much over used, "i'm not happy" excuse.....well frankly I think you are kidding yourself. when you divorce, you are going to find out the grass isn't greener (another over used cliché, but still applicable) will be a hard and bitter lesson.

What are you expecting......to find a decent man later on....to only then figure out he wants sex a couple of times a week too? I find it interesting that you seem prepared to walk from the marriage since your needs aren't being met.....but see no valid reason HIS needs should be met, and even admit to not meeting them.

while it is good to be optimistic....you run the very real chance of destroying something that once upon a time you felt strong enough about to take vows on. The very real possibility that some of your desires in the relationship that aren't being met are all going to be fixed by finding someone new is very slim.

I agree there are times to give up, but I don't believe for a second you have done anything and everything in your power to address the issues you have with him, real or imagined. This would include IC for you alone.

good luck to you...my advice was not meant to be harsh or a criticism, just to make you pause and think about what you are really getting yourself into.


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## sokillme

Running Mom said:


> He wants sex every day and I am not exaggerating. It's exhausting to me to even think about sex every day.


Do you get nothing out of the sex you have with him? Like maybe if you got something out of it, like pleasure it wouldn't be exhausting. How about by yourself do you do that, do you get anything out of that?

Here is the deal generally.

Women = Emotion leads to Physical
Men = Physical leads to Emotional.

You have to find that happy medium. 

Good Marriage = Emotional leads to Physical leads to Emotional leads to ...

Or

Good Marriage = Physical leads to Emotional leads to Physical leads to ...

It's like spinning a basketball on your finger, first one of you hast to start the spinning then you both have to take turns spinning if one of you stops the basketball falls over. 

Easier said then done for a lot of people though.


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## Thor

Yes, it gets better. The process of divorce isn't fun even when it is amicable. My divorce was about as easy as one might imagine, though I would not consider us friends. She did engage in many forms of infidelity or disloyalty during the marriage. But I had given it many years of really trying hard to fix the marriage.

Anyhow, if you do get to the point of divorcing, try to keep things in perspective. It isn't worth fighting over who keeps the toaster. But do assert yourself for the things that are important to you. Don't give away the farm out of some sense of fairness or keeping the peace. Do expect to be surprised a few times by how strongly you react emotionally to something. Those are the times you have to decide if it is worth letting it go or standing your ground, and it may make sense to call for a pause for an hour or a day so you can think on it.

Give MC an honest try, but hold his feet to the fire. If things aren't better in just a few months, they aren't going to get better. Be realistic not blindly hopeful.

I suggest the book "5 Love Languages" for both of you. Also, "No More Mr. Nice Guy" for him, but he will likely react poorly to you giving it to him. Perhaps you could suggest in a private session with the MC that he/she suggest it to your H. Or maybe you could enlist a friend of his or a male relative to give it to him, but be sure he doesn't know it came from you!

You both might benefit from some IC, too. Your MC is treating the marriage, not either of you. After a few sessions you might ask the MC's opinion if IC would be helpful (with a different person than the MC).


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## Running Mom

x598 said:


> well I am going to offer some different advice.
> 
> the worn out, much over used, "i'm not happy" excuse.....well frankly I think you are kidding yourself. when you divorce, you are going to find out the grass isn't greener (another over used cliché, but still applicable) will be a hard and bitter lesson.
> 
> What are you expecting......to find a decent man later on....to only then figure out he wants sex a couple of times a week too? I find it interesting that you seem prepared to walk from the marriage since your needs aren't being met.....but see no valid reason HIS needs should be met, and even admit to not meeting them.
> 
> while it is good to be optimistic....you run the very real chance of destroying something that once upon a time you felt strong enough about to take vows on. The very real possibility that some of your desires in the relationship that aren't being met are all going to be fixed by finding someone new is very slim.
> 
> I agree there are times to give up, but I don't believe for a second you have done anything and everything in your power to address the issues you have with him, real or imagined. This would include IC for you alone.
> 
> good luck to you...my advice was not meant to be harsh or a criticism, just to make you pause and think about what you are really getting yourself into.


My thinking is not "I'm going to divorce him and find someone better". It's "I'm going to divorce him so that I can have some chance at happiness". And I keep hearing this about his need for sex. What about my desire to not have sex constantly? Is that not valid? Why do I have to have sex with him all the time to get some affection and attention? If this is just a "men versus women" thing about how we view sex and affection, then I'm over it. It's exhausting. And I'd probably just be better off being alone. 

I'm getting really tired of feeling like I'm the only one in this marriage that has a problem. And I have been to IC.


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## lifeistooshort

I think pushing got daily sex when you know your spouse doesn't want it is incredibly selfish. If my hb did that I'd never enjoy any of it since I'd never get to recharge.

The constant push for his needs with no thought for your needs is very selfish. Both of your needs have to be considered. How is it fair that he should get all if his but you get none?

Does he also get irritated if you don't fake enjoyment or is he happy just to get his?

That comment about greener grass is ridiculous; sometimes the match is just a poor one. I divorced my ex and the grass was indeed much greener without him. 

Good luck with counseling, I hope whatever happens you both find happiness.


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## MEM2020

I was really sympathetic until I got to this post. 

I will tell you what I told my wife of 25+ years (we have been together almost 28) early in our marriage.

My knee jerk reaction is to put you and your desires first. That's just a hard wired response. If you can't do the same for me in this one area of our marriage - we probably shouldn't be together. And no - that doesn't mean sex on demand. 

What it does mean is this. If you are calculating the bare minimum you can do for me, and have the marriage survive, that isn't about me, that's about you. It isn't love, it's self preservation. And if that's where we are, we shouldn't be together. 





Running Mom said:


> He wants sex every day and I am not exaggerating. It's exhausting to me to even think about sex every day. We've compromised on once a week (on average). But if we go an extra 2-3 days beyond that, he is not a happy camper. He doesn't get angry but he's obviously annoyed with me and that makes me feel pressure to have sex more often and then I get stressed and don't want to have sex. He says he's totally normal for wanting so much sex. I feel like things should be winding down at this point (he's 47) but what do I know - I've only ever talked about sex with him. :smile2:
> 
> As for what's OK for me, I really could go much longer - probably a month but I know that wouldn't work for him. I have a very low sex drive but I do have a need to feel close to him which comes from more sex so I try my best for once a week.
> 
> He's pretty awesome. He's not perfect and there are things about him I would like to change (I wish he were more sociable so we could do things outside of the house more often). But he's very smart and strong and self-aware and trying very hard to be a better person. He's also a great father and he loves me more than anyone else in the world. But all his passion and high level of emotion (which manifest as sexual desire, annoyance-bordering-on-anger when he's out in public, super protective of me and the kids, and just generally confrontational) can be overwhelming sometimes and that is what really stresses me out.


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## Running Mom

MEM2020 said:


> I was really sympathetic until I got to this post.
> 
> I will tell you what I told my wife of 25+ years (we have been together almost 28) early in our marriage.
> 
> My knee jerk reaction is to put you and your desires first. That's just a hard wired response. If you can't do the same for me in this one area of our marriage - we probably shouldn't be together. And no - that doesn't mean sex on demand.
> 
> What it does mean is this. If you are calculating the bare minimum you can do for me, and have the marriage survive, that isn't about me, that's about you. It isn't love, it's self preservation. And if that's where we are, we shouldn't be together.


But here is where I get very confused: if he is putting my desires first, why does he not care about my desire to not have sex all the time? What about my desire to not feel constant pressure for sex? Who is going to give in? I feel like I give in on so many other things in this marriage so why this also? These are honest questions, by the way. I'm not just trying to be argumentative. I would really like to know how we both put the other's desires first and still both be happy when those desires are contradictory. I think the bottom line is that it doesn't work. 

I think the other problem is that he is so focused on this one thing (sex), that he disregards everything else I bring to this marriage. So I feel like I am being blamed for giving up because of the sex issue, but isn't he also?


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## RoseAglow

Hi RM,

Other posters may not know or realize that you've been on TAM, asking for ways to improve your marriage, for several years now. I think maybe 4 or more? So your request or agreement to divorce was by no means an impulsive move.

It's not in your OP here so the others also don't know that you've been the only one working since 2003 (although maybe that has changed since you were last here) and other items that make your case particularly challenging. 

I hope that your husband now understands that you, too, are near of what you can handle in the marriage. I am glad to hear that you have a plan in place and know that you will be OK if your marriage is not able to survive. Sometimes having one spouse actually truly be ready to divorce is a wake up call and things finally improve; I hope that this is the case for you. 

I hope that marriage counseling is helpful. I know that you have wanted to improve things between you and your husband for a very long time. Best of luck!


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## Running Mom

RoseAglow said:


> Hi RM,
> 
> Other posters may not know or realize that you've been on TAM, asking for ways to improve your marriage, for several years now. I think maybe 4 or more? So your request or agreement to divorce was by no means an impulsive move.
> 
> It's not in your OP here so the others also don't know that you've been the only one working since 2003 (although maybe that has changed since you were last here) and other items that make your case particularly challenging.
> 
> I hope that your husband now understands that you, too, are near of what you can handle in the marriage. I am glad to hear that you have a plan in place and know that you will be OK if your marriage is not able to survive. Sometimes having one spouse actually truly be ready to divorce is a wake up call and things finally improve; I hope that this is the case for you.
> 
> I hope that marriage counseling is helpful. I know that you have wanted to improve things between you and your husband for a very long time. Best of luck!


Thank you very much for this post.


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## Evinrude58

It's not only the sex he wants, Runningmom.

It's the feeling of intimacy and closeness to his wife that he's craving. And the farther you pull away, the more he yearns for that feeling of closeness. I guarantee you it's not ALL about the physical act of sex with him. We men need to feel loved. Sex is how we feel loved the best. You are right that every night is making you feel pressured and turns you off. But if your sex drive is that far off of his, marriage will be hard. 
Mine started slowing a little when I hit 35. It's still high, but 3-5 times a week is plenty for me and I'm in my early 40's. I kinda feel like women in their late 30's and 40's are like 18 year old boys on the sex drive thing. I don't know how old you are, but maybe age will solve some of the problem?

Go get some help on fixing the intimacy thing between you two. He is not right for wanting you every night of the week and demanding. You're not right for not understanding his needs. Give him a freaking hand job and snuggle with him on nights you're not really into it. Let him know you care about him that much. If you give that man what he needs, he may freaking worship you and give you the emotional type stuff that you need. First thing you know, you may be wanting him as often as he's wanting you.

Just some thoughts. Wishing you luck. I get tired of hearing of good people divorcing over things that might have a chance of being solved.
Have my fingers crossed for you.


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## MEM2020

RM,
Just reviewed your prior posts. Your H never really grew up. He is difficult in some core ways. 

He has chosen not to work since 2003. 





Running Mom said:


> But here is where I get very confused: if he is putting my desires first, why does he not care about my desire to not have sex all the time? What about my desire to not feel constant pressure for sex? Who is going to give in? I feel like I give in on so many other things in this marriage so why this also? These are honest questions, by the way. I'm not just trying to be argumentative. I would really like to know how we both put the other's desires first and still both be happy when those desires are contradictory. I think the bottom line is that it doesn't work.
> 
> I think the other problem is that he is so focused on this one thing (sex), that he disregards everything else I bring to this marriage. So I feel like I am being blamed for giving up because of the sex issue, but isn't he also?


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## 3Xnocharm

Running Mom said:


> My thinking is not "I'm going to divorce him and find someone better". It's "I'm going to divorce him so that I can have some chance at happiness". And I keep hearing this about his need for sex. What about my desire to not have sex constantly? Is that not valid? Why do I have to have sex with him all the time to get some affection and attention? If this is just a "men versus women" thing about how we view sex and affection, then I'm over it. It's exhausting. And I'd probably just be better off being alone.
> 
> I'm getting really tired of feeling like I'm the only one in this marriage that has a problem. And I have been to IC.


Your point is very valid. There should be give and take for both sides. You shouldnt have to put out for sex constantly if he is not going to show any affection away from the bedroom. What he needs to understand is that if he DID show non-sexual affection to you, that maybe your drive and desire for him would INCREASE and lead to more frequent and fulfulling sex all around. Most of us women NEED that affection in order to have desire for our partner. 




lifeistooshort said:


> I think pushing got daily sex when you know your spouse doesn't want it is incredibly selfish. If my hb did that I'd never enjoy any of it since I'd never get to recharge.
> 
> The constant push for his needs with no thought for your needs is very selfish. Both of your needs have to be considered. How is it fair that he should get all if his but you get none?
> 
> Does he also get irritated if you don't fake enjoyment or is he happy just to get his?
> 
> *That comment about greener grass is ridiculous; sometimes the match is just a poor one. I divorced my ex and the grass was indeed much greener without him.
> *
> Good luck with counseling, I hope whatever happens you both find happiness.


I agree, about the whole grass is greener comment. Greener grass really isnt about finding another partner, its about being able to find contentment/happiness for yourself. Being with someone you are no longer happy or in love with sucks the life out of you.


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## Running Mom

Evinrude58 said:


> You're not right for not understanding his needs. Give him a freaking hand job and snuggle with him on nights you're not really into it. Let him know you care about him that much. .


I do understand his need for love but does it always have to come from sex? And give him a hand job and snuggle? Really? After I worked all day, paid all the bills, made dinner, helped with homework? Maybe I could just have some time to myself to read a book or watch TV without someone wanting something from me. Edited to add: I would be happy sitting and watching TV with him but if he's pissed off because we haven't had sex, I end up just sitting by myself which makes me feel lonely. 

Sorry - I just needed to vent a little. I get what you are saying, but thinking that more sex is no big deal really pisses me off. I have more than one need and so if I don't get one thing from him, then I can get something else, you know what I mean? All he ever wants is sex and if I'm not in the mood, there is nothing else I can do to make him happy. Everything I do is viewed through the lens of sex. If I made dinner, then it's all well and good if we've had sex recently. If we haven't, then he couldn't care less if we eat. That is pressure and I'm tired of it.


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## anonmd

Running Mom said:


> He wants sex every day and I am not exaggerating. It's exhausting to me to even think about sex every day. We've *compromised on once a week *(on average). But if we go an extra 2-3 days beyond that, he is not a happy camper. He doesn't get angry but he's obviously annoyed with me and that makes me feel pressure to have sex more often and then I get stressed and don't want to have sex. *He says he's totally normal *for wanting so much sex. I feel like things should be winding down at this point (he's 47) but what do I know - I've only ever talked about sex with him. :smile2:
> 
> As for what's OK for me, I really could go much longer - probably a month but I know that wouldn't work for him. I have a very low sex drive but I do have a need to feel close to him which comes from more sex so I try my best for once a week.


He is totally normal and once a week is a large compromise on his part. If he needs to step up in some other area I'd be all for that but you also say he's pretty wonderful otherwise so that's a disconnect. Maybe there is a way to be 'sexual' a bit more often without quite as much PIV, just a suggestion. Not sure how old you are but if it is around his age @ 47 you are likely headed towards more conflict not less on this issue as you age if you don't manage such a transition.


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## Evinrude58

Husband hasn't worked since 2003?

Yeah, time for divorce. That's bs. Hell yes, you should be too tired for sex or a hand job.
You've fulfilled your end. He needs to step up or step out.


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## Emerging Buddhist

MEM2020 said:


> My knee jerk reaction is to put you and your desires first. That's just a hard wired response. If you can't do the same for me in this one area of our marriage - we probably shouldn't be together. And no - that doesn't mean sex on demand.
> 
> What it does mean is this. If you are calculating the bare minimum you can do for me, and have the marriage survive, that isn't about me, that's about you. It isn't love, it's self preservation. *And if that's where we are, we shouldn't be together.*


The bolded troubled me as I sat here digesting this sentence of this paragraph over my morning tea...

There is a part me, I'm sure, that shouldn't be with anybody because there is no perfect package in me that will satisfy any one person.

With practice, I assess the entire package and ensure that self-preservation is done for loving myself so I may be better at loving others.

Your words ring true (to me) about the "bare minimum" in anything, much less sex, and calculations have no part in a relationship yet they are allowed to introduce themselves on-demand where we start to confuse self-preservation with selfishness.

A fine line... is it not?

Yet incredibly clear at the same time as one's heart knows the difference even if the mind tries to convince it otherwise.

It takes more than understanding our partners languages... it takes acceptance, and therein lies our biggest struggle.

Be the balance you seek...


----------



## lifeistooshort

Yes, if he hasn't bothered to work in 13 years no wonder that's all he thinks about.

Probably spends lots of time looking at porn while you're working. 

Forget about sex, you have a man child.

I can see the increase in my hb's sex drive when he's off work.....but in my defense I like it more when I'm not working too.


----------



## MovingForward

Running Mom said:


> I totally agree about him throwing out divorce when he doesn't really mean it. When I went to individual counseling last year, she told me the same thing in a way - that I shouldn't talk about divorce unless I really mean it. I still remember how painful it was the first time he told me we should get divorced. I guess the difference between him telling me and me telling him is that I really meant it and I had a plan.
> 
> I am looking forward to counseling, especially since he's always said in the past that he didn't want to go, not because he didn't want to work on the marriage but because he doesn't like doctors/therapists/counselors. But he got a name from a good friend of his. I figured that my best bet was to let him pick the counselor as that may make him much more likely to open up. The other positive decision we made is that even though right now we feel like we've resolved this particular issue this time, we are still going to go to counseling. Maybe we will get more out of it since we aren't starting from a place of hurt and anger.
> 
> Reading through this thread and thinking about how I felt yesterday (wanting a divorce) and how I feel today (not so much), I feel like I'm going crazy. I'm too old for these major emotional swings from high to low.


What change your thoughts on whether you want a divorce or not? I only ask as I am on the other side of this currently and really wanted to see your perspective.


----------



## MovingForward

Running Mom said:


> My thinking is not "I'm going to divorce him and find someone better". It's "I'm going to divorce him so that I can have some chance at happiness". And I keep hearing this about his need for sex. What about my desire to not have sex constantly? Is that not valid? Why do I have to have sex with him all the time to get some affection and attention? If this is just a "men versus women" thing about how we view sex and affection, then I'm over it. It's exhausting. And I'd probably just be better off being alone.
> 
> I'm getting really tired of feeling like I'm the only one in this marriage that has a problem. And I have been to IC.


Do you think there is still a chance you could be happy again with your husband if he made some changes and was more willing to meet in the middle? Sex is something which makes me feel incredibly close to my wife also and I may have been guilty in the past of making similar errors to your husband, the feeling of rejection often made me shut down and was hard to get past but I have been working on that and when things were better between me and my wife sometimes just the physical closeness satisfied the same needs an affectionate hug or kiss just to feel the love.


----------



## bandit.45

Whatever you do, know that divorce sucks. It just sucks. 

I disagree with all these stories about good divorces. There is no such thing as a good divorce. Some are more amicable than others, but divorce is still a tragedy however you slice it. It is the dissolution of a family. There is nothing good or positive about it, unless for those extreme cases where a spouse has been cheated on repeatedly or has been suffering extreme physical or emotional abuse. 

Use every resource at your disposal to save your marriage. Work hard at your MC, and if things still do not improve, then you and your husband can walk away with the knowledge that you did all that you could to save it.


----------



## MovingForward

bandit.45 said:


> Whatever you do, know that divorce sucks. It just sucks.
> 
> I disagree with all these stories about good divorces. There is no such thing as a good divorce. Some are more amicable than others, but divorce is still a tragedy however you slice it. It is the dissolution of a family. There is nothing good or positive about it, unless for those extreme cases where a spouse has been cheated on repeatedly or has been suffering extreme physical or emotional abuse.
> 
> Use every resource at your disposal to save your marriage. Work hard at your MC, and if things still do not improve, then you and your husband can walk away with the knowledge that you did all that you could to save it.


I like this. I still haven't had the chance to work on my marriage with MC and feel like we should have made more of an effort and not really tried after 12 years before spitting our family and looking like we are moving forward with a divorce.

Once I heard the 'I want a divorce everything became so much clearer, realized a lot of my weaknesses and errors and how much my wife and family meant to me, I finally saw the times I had hurt her and made her feel bad and honestly believe if i had ever been given the chance our relationship could have become better than ever.


----------



## bandit.45

And just my opinion...considering throwing away your marriage and life stability just because your husband whines about not getting enough sex seems hasty to me. Yeah I get you have been having problems for four years now. But are these problems really that insurmountable? It just seems foolish to throw away all that you and he have built together because you have grown apart in your interests and have become sexually incompatible. 

As far as him not being social? Most men, as they age, stop socializing. They just do. I can tell you it is generally a fact. At 49 I am nowhere near as affable or sociable as I was when I was 29. Far from it. I get just as much pleasure hanging out at home and puttering with my hobbies or reading a good book as I do going to social gatherings. It is a natural progression for men as they reach 50s and beyond. 

Maybe I'm generalizing, but from my perspective women never seem to lose their sociability, and continue to go out and socialize and do activities. Nothing wrong at all with that. I guess I don't understand why you have this need for your husband to accompany you to all your social gatherings. Why do you need him there? This speaks to an insecurity of yours, not his. Why can you not pursue your interests, allow him to pursue his, and then have common interests that you do together once a week? 

If your husband was physically abusing you, cheating on you, was an alcoholic or drug addict, or had a gambling addiction...then I could see you wanting out immediately. But have you ever considered that your husband just finds you incredibly beautiful and sexy? Does he tell you how much he desires you? 

You know, there are women on this forum and out in the world who would give ten years off their life to have a husband who desires them sexually. Think about this before you go off half cocked.


----------



## SunCMars

Running Mom said:


> Thanks for the replies and support. This is why I really love this forum! I first wrote this post right after I told him we should split up. A few hours later we talked for hours and hours and have agreed to go to a marriage counselor. Even though we aren't getting divorced right now, I do feel like a huge weight has been lifted just by telling him that it's been on my mind. We've talked about divorce in the past and he's always been the one to bring it up. I thought I was just finally telling him that I agreed. But then he told me that he didn't really want to get divorced - he just sometimes says that because he's hurt and feels like he needs to say something shocking to get me to understand how serious he is.
> 
> He says his only problem with me is that we don't have enough sex. We've been fighting about sex for years now and I'm just so tired of it. If we don't have sex as often as he wants (which he says is way less than he REALLY wants but he's compromising with me), then he gets cranky and withdraws from me and I get very lonely and* feel like there is nothing between us and that ALL he wants from me is sex and if he doesn't get that then nothing else I do has any meaning.* When he's withdrawn, I don't feel like having sex and we get in this same loop of bad moods and no affection and no sex because there are bad moods and no affection.
> 
> Hopefully a marriage counselor can help us communicate a little better.


Sex, to 90% of men, is marriage.

That is how "they" show their love.

Get this...or lose every battle with most men.

The grass is not greener in another bull pasture. At Clark Kent's farm? Maybe. Find Clark Kent.


----------



## DonaldDuck666

SunCMars said:


> Sex, to 90% of men, is marriage.
> 
> That is how "they" show their love.
> 
> Get this...or lose every battle with most men.
> 
> The grass is not greener in another bull pasture. At Clark Kent's farm? Maybe. Find Clark Kent.



As a guy, I'll speak to this. She's right. We are basically big babies. Love us (play with us, tease us, have sex with us) and feed us, and we're usually satisfied.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bandit.45 said:


> Maybe I'm generalizing, but from my perspective women never seem to lose their sociability, and continue to go out and socialize and do activities. Nothing wrong at all with that. I guess I don't understand why you have this need for your husband to accompany you to all your social gatherings. Why do you need him there? This speaks to an insecurity of yours, not his. Why can you not pursue your interests, allow him to pursue his, and then have common interests that you do together once a week?


Why would you consider it insecurity that she would like to have her husband along for socializing? Shouldn't our spouse be our best friend, the one we like spending time with the most? I thinks when people marry, its important for each to have their own interests, but across the board, your spouse should be the one you want to be with. Why be with someone otherwise, isnt that a big part of being a couple? I went through two husbands who were completely anti-social, including with family, and its depressing and embarrassing to have a spouse who doesnt want to spend time with you, your family, or your friends. :frown2:


----------



## bandit.45

SunCMars said:


> Sex, to 90% of men, is marriage.
> 
> That is how "they" show their love.
> 
> Get this...or lose every battle with most men.
> 
> The grass is not greener in another bull pasture. At Clark Kent's farm? Maybe. Find Clark Kent.


This ^^^^^^^. 

Women need to get this through their heads: 

A woman shows she loves her man by giving him sex. That is how a man knows his woman loves him. 

Women require much much more to know they are loved, and most conscientious husbands jump through hoops to try to do what they need us to do... the majority of the time. There are a lot of lazy and selfish husbands out there, but there are just as many who give an honest effort towards letting there wives know they love and care for them.


----------



## bandit.45

3Xnocharm said:


> Why would you consider it insecurity that she would like to have her husband along for socializing? Shouldn't our spouse be our best friend, the one we like spending time with the most? I thinks when people marry, its important for each to have their own interests, but across the board, your spouse should be the one you want to be with. Why be with someone otherwise, isnt that a big part of being a couple? I went through two husbands who were completely anti-social, including with family, and its depressing and embarrassing to have a spouse who doesnt want to spend time with you, your family, or your friends. :frown2:


I'll answer a question with a question. Why did you pick two unsocial husbands to marry, and then get your feelings hurt because they didn't want to socialize? Many men are like this....a whole bunch of us. So why would you, a social person, pick two men in succession who were not? Why do some women set themselves up for that?


----------



## bandit.45

I've told this story before, but I knew a couple who lived in my hometown when I was growing up. They were close friends of our family, and in some ways I considered them a sort of aunt and uncle. They were ranchers. For twenty five years they lived way out of town on their ranch, about three miles off the highway, and which was accessible only by a very bumpy, sometimes washed-out, dirt road. They raised five kids together and ran a successful cattle operation. 

Then once all the kids were gone, the wife decided that she no longer wanted to live at the ranch. Her mother had died and left her a house in town, so her husband fixed the place up and she moved in while he stayed out at the ranch. They only got together on weekends. He ran the ranch while she worked in town as a bookkeeper for several local businesses. But every weekend you would see them at the grocery store together, buying food and laughing and smiling and holding hands as they wandered up and down the isles. You would see them at church together every Sunday and they just looked in love. But they only got together on the weekends. She was very active in White Cross and other women's organizations, and was active in the Rotary Club. She did these things all by herself. Her husband was one of those respected men who everyone knew and liked, but you hardly ever saw him, because, well...he was on the back of a horse somewhere out in the sticks five days a week. I can imagine they only had sexual relations on those weekends when he came into town to stay with her.

They stayed married for fifty some ought years, and only moved back in together when he got old and frail and had to pass the ranch off to his sons. 

What I am getting at is that these two people saw the value in their marriage beyond sex and differences in interests. They did not end it simply because she no longer wanted to live out in the boondocks. She lived her life and he lived his and they made it work. They had enough trust in each other to allow each other the freedom to do what made them happy. 

I don't know why I'm telling this story, except to say that these two people managed to make it work for more than half a century. How tragic it would have been for them to have ended it once their kids were grown.


----------



## SunCMars

3Xnocharm said:


> Why would you consider it insecurity that she would like to have her husband along for socializing? Shouldn't our spouse be our best friend, the one we like spending time with the most? I thinks when people marry, its important for each to have their own interests, but across the board, your spouse should be the one you want to be with. Why be with someone otherwise, isnt that a big part of being a couple? I went through two husbands who were completely anti-social, including with family, and its depressing and embarrassing to have a spouse who doesnt want to spend time with you, your family, or your friends. :frown2:


Well, you are right.

I hope #3 does what you need. I believe [from your posts] that he does spend time with you, that your third husband is compatible with you. Now, of course {not before}. You are charmed. Your Avatar says this.

And you are blessed. Not only because you finally found a man that works for you, but because you had two previous relationships with two other men. You have perspective. A past to draw from. 

And two other men. Some women have no meaningful [past] SO's. No fond and not-so-fond memories to tide you over when things in the marriage go haywire. To give you perspective.

You took your lumps. You took your lugs, two of them to your heart..to your bed. They may be gone...but only physically.

Enjoy the third. And may he enjoy you and your Charms...Dear!


----------



## bandit.45

And I will say one more thing while I'm on a rant. Having common interests, being equally sociable, and having a great sex life doesn't a happy marriage make. A couple can be compatible in every way, on paper, and sometimes it still doesn't work. Usually it comes down to mutually orneriness or stubbornness, or one partner being selfish and not wanting to compromise, or sometimes the cares and worries of every day life (external forces) just weigh down on the marriage. 

You could have a social butterfly husband who throws barbecues every weekend, loves to go to parties and events, and who has no penis and never wants to have sex, and I guarantee you you will still find other things to complain about. Sometimes you have to just look inside yourself and find ways to make yourself happy irregardless of what your spouse does.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

bandit.45 said:


> I'll answer a question with a question. Why did you pick two unsocial husbands to marry, and then get your feelings hurt because they didn't want to socialize? Many men are like this....a whole bunch of us. So why would you, a social person, pick two men in succession who were not? Why do some women set themselves up for that?


This is an excellent question. I have a very broken picker it seems. Neither of them were overly social people when our relationship(s) started, but over time, they slowly dropped out of pretty much everything. It had never bothered me at first, because I myself am not a social butterfly, but they did start out going to family functions, etc. I am having to work on myself so I do not get sucked into another relationship with this type of person. 
@SunCMars..... I am not currently married. My last husband divorced me in less than a year to remarry his first wife. Hence my user name 3 times NO charm.


----------



## dubsey

I'll counterpoint Bandit here, not that he doesn't make some good points.

How many times has the masses here told someone to leave the marriage if they're not happy before they do something stupid and betray their spouse? 

He wants sex desperately. 
She has no desire to change the frequency of sex.

Neither of them will be happy in the current situation. Split up, and become the best co-parents you can be - the status quo won't be maintained. There's a better than 50/50 chance you'll both be happier apart with new partners who better meet your needs.


----------



## bandit.45

3Xnocharm said:


> This is an excellent question. I have a very broken picker it seems. Neither of them were overly social people when our relationship(s) started, but over time, they slowly dropped out of pretty much everything. It had never bothered me at first, because I myself am not a social butterfly, but they did start out going to family functions, etc. I am having to work on myself so I do not get sucked into another relationship with this type of person.
> 
> @SunCMars..... I am not currently married. My last husband divorced me in less than a year to remarry his first wife. Hence my user name 3 times NO charm.


Going back to the insecure question...I guess I just don't understand why OP is upset that her hubby doesn't like hanging out with her friends. I can get it if he were avoiding her family...that is a completely different issue altogether. That would not be cool. Family is family and you have an obligation to be there. But I guess I just don't understand why it impedes her ability to socialize and have fun without her husband. I see women at social events all the time, all the time, without hubbies in tow. It doesn't seem to bother them. I would imagine they like the break from their husbands.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

bandit.45 said:


> Going back to the insecure question...I guess I just don't understand why OP is upset that her hubby doesn't like hanging out with her friends. I can get it if he were avoiding her family...that is a completely different issue altogether. That would not be cool. Family is family and you have an obligation to be there. But I guess I just don't understand why it impedes her ability to socialize and have fun without her husband. I see women at social events all the time, all the time, without hubbies in tow. It doesn't seem to bother them. I would imagine they like the break from their husbands.



Hmm, did you take into account that he has not worked since 2003, she does most of the childcare, housework, and works full time. If he is not interacting with her then who is he having sex with without really knowing her. Is she just a face, a vagina for him? Is he having sex with someone that he really does not know? Sex is important,but without a connection who the heck is he making love to if he is clueless into whom he is having sex with? How about hsi threats of divorce that he used to control her? And if research is more important, than with neurology, sex for males is more of a reward system than a bonding one compared to females. Females actually bond more and feel more love by a wide margin when it comes to sex and this research is easily found out if you want to look it up. Still, sex is important because it is rewarding and has so many benefits to both males and females. Just like people mistake attraction for bonds.

My gf is both my best friend, someone that I can talk to and want to spend time with and am highly attracted to at the same time. I love to put my arms around her while we enjoy a movie, I love the joy on her face when I surprise her, I love how she is my cheerleader, or how we are there for one another, I can count on her, the OP cannot say the same for her husband.

Btw, the grass is greener compared to my previous ex. Just like any relationship is different and people bring different things into a relationship, we get different reactions. If someone is married to an abuser, cheater, someone neglectful, and then is in a relationship with someone without those issues, the grass is already greener. Depends on multiple factors. AS bad as Losinghim's husband is currently, he was not as nearly as terrible as her ex-husband. The grass is greener for LH already is just that there is still a lot of issues.

I agree with you if they can work on their issues, the grass can grow greener but nonetheless, how green it is is still highly dependent on the people involved. I have a friend that left her ex even though she was in a happy marriage and is now in a better marriage where the greass is greener. Her ex convinced her to join the hot wife lifestyle and that is how she met her current husband. It was love at first sight and they shared more interests in her and her ex. That is what I mean the greeness of the grass and its potential is dependent on the people involved. Why the grass is greener for me than my previous because of a lot of factors. People sometimes make mistakes in who they marry and if they tried for what they beleive is enough, how would investing more time solve the issues? My ex is making someone's life miserable and we are still friends and I know that I would be miserable with her still. I had to cut the cord at some point. How much should I sacrifice for her sake, live my life for another? That is everyone's choice. This is my only life and I sure as hell would not waste it on someone that does not care enough about what I need if I am the only one giving. I find it fascinating that people talk about vows and forget about cherishing one another.


----------



## bandit.45

dubsey said:


> I'll counterpoint Bandit here, not that he doesn't make some good points.
> 
> How many times has the masses here told someone to leave the marriage if they're not happy before they do something stupid and betray their spouse?
> 
> He wants sex desperately.
> She has no desire to change the frequency of sex.
> 
> *Neither of them will be happy in the current situation. Split up, and become the best co-parents you can be - the status quo won't be maintained. There's a better than 50/50 chance you'll both be happier apart with new partners who better meet your needs*.


Maybe.... Maybe. It is not a guarantee. But you are right...if she does not find a way to compromise with him, he will find another outlet for his needs. That is where a really good MC can come in and mediate and help them come to a compromise they can both live with. 

And I say this I guess because I am one of those who really likes sex, and I have a hard time identifying with "low drive" people. I just don't understand how a healthy person, with a healthy spouse, would not want to have as much sex as both of them can handle. Sex is a blast. 

Look, all I'm saying is that if she is going to divorce him, then be honest about why she is divorcing him. It sounds to me like she just doesn't love him, and I say that because I have not heard her mention the "L" word much at all. It just doesn't seem to exist. What I'm suspecting is that she simply doesn't love him anymore, and that has translated into her no longer wanting to have sex with him.


----------



## DonaldDuck666

bandit.45 said:


> Going back to the insecure question...I guess I just don't understand why OP is upset that her hubby doesn't like hanging out with her friends. I can get it if he were avoiding her family...that is a completely different issue altogether. That would not be cool. Family is family and you have an obligation to be there. But I guess I just don't understand why it impedes her ability to socialize and have fun without her husband. I see women at social events all the time, all the time, without hubbies in tow. It doesn't seem to bother them. I would imagine they like the break from their husbands.


The older I've gotten, the worse my social anxiety has become. I DESPISE social gatherings, for the most part. It's 100x worse if I don't know anyone there. I will go out on a limb, however, to say that if I truly enjoyed spending time with my wife, I might be more game to go. So, there's no one answer to this.


----------



## bandit.45

Mr.Fisty said:


> Hmm, did you take into account that he has not worked since 2003, she does most of the childcare, housework, and works full time. If he is not interacting with her then who is he having sex with without really knowing her. Is she just a face, a vagina for him? Is he having sex with someone that he really does not know? Sex is important,but without a connection who the heck is he making love to if he is clueless into whom he is having sex with? How about hsi threats of divorce that he used to control her? And if research is more important, than with neurology, sex for males is more of a reward system than a bonding one compared to females. Females actually bond more and feel more love by a wide margin when it comes to sex and this research is easily found out if you want to look it up. Still, sex is important because it is rewarding and has so many benefits to both males and females. Just like people mistake attraction for bonds.
> 
> My gf is both my best friend, someone that I can talk to and want to spend time with and am highly attracted to at the same time. I love to put my arms around her while we enjoy a movie, I love the joy on her face when I surprise her, I love how she is my cheerleader, or how we are there for one another, I can count on her, the OP cannot say the same for her husband.
> 
> Btw, the grass is greener compared to my previous ex. Just like any relationship is different and people bring different things into a relationship, we get different reactions. If someone is married to an abuser, cheater, someone neglectful, and then is in a relationship with someone without those issues, the grass is already greener. Depends on multiple factors. AS bad as Losinghim's husband is currently, he was not as nearly as terrible as her ex-husband. The grass is greener for LH already is just that there is still a lot of issues.
> 
> I agree with you if they can work on their issues, the grass can grow greener but nonetheless, how green it is is still highly dependent on the people involved. I have a friend that left her ex even though she was in a happy marriage and is now in a better marriage where the greass is greener. Her ex convinced her to join the hot wife lifestyle and that is how she met her current husband. It was love at first sight and they shared more interests in her and her ex. That is what I mean the greeness of the grass and its potential is dependent on the people involved. Why the grass is greener for me than my previous because of a lot of factors. People sometimes make mistakes in who they marry and if they tried for what they beleive is enough, how would investing more time solve the issues? My ex is making someone's life miserable and we are still friends and I know that I would be miserable with her still. I had to cut the cord at some point. How much should I sacrifice for her sake, live my life for another? That is everyone's choice. This is my only life and I sure as hell would not waste it on someone that does not care enough about what I need if I am the only one giving. I find it fascinating that people talk about vows and forget about cherishing one another.


I had not read her other threads, so I did not know he had not been working. If so that definitely puts a new spin on the situation.


----------



## x598

RM I can not believe the disdain you show for sex with your husband. its dripping from your posts.

help me understand something. Is sex not pleasurable to you? your words make it sound like a dreaded chore, akin to fixing a clogged toilet. I mean does he want to tie you up in bed for hours like something out of the movies? Does he have oversized toys he wants to use on you?

Because I don't understand. a freely given act that most find immensely enjoyable and an emotional bonding experience to you is almost portrayed like a horror movie. Were you brought up by nuns who scorned you and gave you the belief sex is dirty and only for getting pregnant?

many here have commented about him not working, yet you didn't start this conversation with that, rather you are tired of him pestering you for sex. and while I can see that would be unattractive... you complained about the sex and not his working. I would like to know more details about it. Did he agree to stay home and raise kids as you had a more lucrative career? are there other factors?

not trying to be combative. I am offering different views or opinions to help you with your tough life altering decision.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I just re-read your original thread from 2013, I remembered it as I read. Unless there have been some serious changes, I think its pretty relevant to this current thread, if other posters care to check it out. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ning-may-contain-copious-amounts-venting.html


----------



## SunCMars

3Xnocharm said:


> This is an excellent question. I have a very broken picker it seems. Neither of them were overly social people when our relationship(s) started, but over time, they slowly dropped out of pretty much everything. It had never bothered me at first, because I myself am not a social butterfly, but they did start out going to family functions, etc. I am having to work on myself so I do not get sucked into another relationship with this type of person.
> 
> @SunCMars..... I am not currently married. My last husband divorced me in less than a year to remarry his first wife. Hence my user name *3 times NO charm.*


Damn! My eyes are not what they used to be. I miss little......words.

Damn! That means you are available. 

Gents, the Lady is single, the Lady is intelligent, the Lady is experienced. 

Her picker has run out of bad men. As luck [and the odds] would have it, you are poised for a better future.

Date long.....LTR. 

Wait long enough for................ no shoe to drop.


----------



## SunCMars

MEM2020 said:


> I was really sympathetic until I got to this post.
> 
> I will tell you what I told my wife of 25+ years (we have been together almost 28) early in our marriage.
> 
> My knee jerk reaction is to put you and your desires first. That's just a hard wired response. If you can't do the same for me in this one area of our marriage - we probably shouldn't be together. And no - that doesn't mean sex on demand.
> 
> What it does mean is this. If you are calculating the bare minimum you can do for me, and have the marriage survive, that isn't about me, that's about you. It isn't love, it's self preservation. And if that's where we are, we shouldn't be together.


Perfect. Thank you!


----------



## SunCMars

Mr.Fisty said:


> Hmm, did you take into account that he has not worked since 2003, she does most of the childcare, housework, and works full time. If he is not interacting with her then who is he having sex with without really knowing her. Is she just a face, a vagina for him? Is he having sex with someone that he really does not know? Sex is important,but without a connection who the heck is he making love to if he is clueless into whom he is having sex with? How about hsi threats of divorce that he used to control her? And if research is more important, than with neurology, sex for males is more of a reward system than a bonding one compared to females. Females actually bond more and feel more love by a wide margin when it comes to sex and this research is easily found out if you want to look it up. Still, sex is important because it is rewarding and has so many benefits to both males and females. Just like people mistake attraction for bonds.
> 
> My gf is both my best friend, someone that I can talk to and want to spend time with and am highly attracted to at the same time. I love to put my arms around her while we enjoy a movie, I love the joy on her face when I surprise her, I love how she is my cheerleader, or how we are there for one another, I can count on her, the OP cannot say the same for her husband.
> 
> Btw, the grass is greener compared to my previous ex. Just like any relationship is different and people bring different things into a relationship, we get different reactions. If someone is married to an abuser, cheater, someone neglectful, and then is in a relationship with someone without those issues, the grass is already greener. Depends on multiple factors. AS bad as Losinghim's husband is currently, he was not as nearly as terrible as her ex-husband. The grass is greener for LH already is just that there is still a lot of issues.
> 
> I agree with you if they can work on their issues, the grass can grow greener but nonetheless, how green it is is still highly dependent on the people involved. I have a friend that left her ex even though she was in a happy marriage and is now in a better marriage where the greass is greener. Her ex convinced her to join the hot wife lifestyle and that is how she met her current husband. It was love at first sight and they shared more interests in her and her ex. That is what I mean the greeness of the grass and its potential is dependent on the people involved. Why the grass is greener for me than my previous because of a lot of factors. People sometimes make mistakes in who they marry and if they tried for what they beleive is enough, how would investing more time solve the issues? My ex is making someone's life miserable and we are still friends and I know that I would be miserable with her still. I had to cut the cord at some point. How much should I sacrifice for her sake, live my life for another? That is everyone's choice. This is my only life and I sure as hell would not waste it on someone that does not care enough about what I need if I am the only one giving. I find it fascinating that people talk about vows and forget about cherishing one another.


Mr.Fisty to the rescue.

@running Mom, you should have rehashed some of your old posts. This puts a new spin on an old top. 

Go to the closet.
Get your running shoes. Put the New Balances on. The Pumas... leave behind.
Pull out the old laces and put in new.
Put new inserts inside...the gel ones.

Step out the door and run around the bend. Keep the warm wind at your back. 
Avoid the hills.
Head downhill to the lowlands and fertile soil.
Avoid the scarecrows in the field that beckon thee. 

Find the working Land Tiller. The Country Gentleman that waters his crop and fertilizes his fields. The one who shields his loved ones from the baking sun.

You will know him at first glance. His hand will contain a flask of water for a run down and thirsty lady, such as thee.


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## FrazzledSadHusband

Your husband should be working & contributing to the marriage.

I have posted 2 links below for you to review.

http://forgivenwife.com/new-to-this-blog-start-here/
http://forgivenwife.com/inundated-by-his-hurt/#more-8062

It's not JUST sex. NOTHING else in this world makes me feel more loving, protective & willing to move heaven & earth to make my wife happy, than when we have sex together. NOTHING.

Not saying your husband should not own his own crap & deal with it. He would be more attractive to you if he did.

Both of you have areas to work on.


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## aine

Running Mom said:


> I do understand his need for love but does it always have to come from sex? And give him a hand job and snuggle? Really? After I worked all day, paid all the bills, made dinner, helped with homework? Maybe I could just have some time to myself to read a book or watch TV without someone wanting something from me. Edited to add: I would be happy sitting and watching TV with him but if he's pissed off because we haven't had sex, I end up just sitting by myself which makes me feel lonely.
> 
> Sorry - I just needed to vent a little. I get what you are saying, but thinking that more sex is no big deal really pisses me off. I have more than one need and so if I don't get one thing from him, then I can get something else, you know what I mean? All he ever wants is sex and if I'm not in the mood, there is nothing else I can do to make him happy. Everything I do is viewed through the lens of sex. If I made dinner, then it's all well and good if we've had sex recently. If we haven't, then he couldn't care less if we eat. That is pressure and I'm tired of it.


If your H is not working, why are you coming home making dinner, helping with homework, surely he should be doing all of this? What exactly does he do around the home? There is obviously an imbalance in the household responsibilities, no wonder you are resentful, if he cannot see that, then he is either obtuse or selfish. 
Why don't you approach your issue from this angle, if he gave you time to unwind after work, maybe even give you a bit of pampering and tell you to relax while he takes care of things. Does this happen in your household? 
For all the male Tam'ers who are saying that sex is important, sure it is but you have to look at the circumstances.
When a guy goes to work all day, when he gets home he wants some appreciation and some loving, why should it be any different for the OP. She seems to carry the whole burden of the marriage and though I am not one to condone divorce easily, I can see how it might free her from this arrangement.
The question you have to ask yourself is what does he bring to your life (not to the kids or family life), YOUR life?


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## Openminded

What does he do during the day?


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## Marc878

IMO I couldn't get past the not working for 13 years. Unless he's disabled.

If he's not my question is why are you in this still?


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## BURNT KEP

Before you were married and in the early stages of your marriage how often were you having sex?


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## 3Xnocharm

SunCMars said:


> Damn! My eyes are not what they used to be. I miss little......words.
> 
> Damn! That means you are available.
> 
> Gents, the Lady is single, the Lady is intelligent, the Lady is experienced.
> 
> Her picker has run out of bad men. As luck [and the odds] would have it, you are poised for a better future.
> 
> Date long.....LTR.
> 
> Wait long enough for................ no shoe to drop.


This made me smile, thank you so much! :smile2:


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## bandit.45

Yeah...had I known the bum wasn't working I wouldn't have shot my mouth off. My comments were made under the assumption he was an average working guy. 

To me a man who doesn't work or bring in an income isn't a man. I'm sorry if that offends any SAHDs on here, but that is what I believe. Call me a caveman. 

Given this new info, I think she should dump the bum.


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## 3Xnocharm

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah...had I known the bum wasn't working I wouldn't have shot my mouth off. My comments were made under the assumption he was an average working guy.
> 
> To me a man who doesn't work or bring in an income isn't a man. I'm sorry if that offends any SAHDs on here, but that is what I believe. Call me a caveman.
> 
> Given this new info, I think she should dump the bum.


I have to agree. I'm kinda old fashioned that way, I believe a man who CAN work, SHOULD work. Also a woman with no/grown children should work as well. 

OP hasnt checked back in a while....


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## lifeistooshort

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah...had I known the bum wasn't working I wouldn't have shot my mouth off. My comments were made under the assumption he was an average working guy.
> 
> To me a man who doesn't work or bring in an income isn't a man. I'm sorry if that offends any SAHDs on here, but that is if what I believe. Call me a caveman.
> 
> Given this new info, I think she should dump the bum.


I honestly think a lot of women feel this way even when they agree with the sahd thing. It is a double standard but it's one of those things that has a biological basis.....we like strong men we know could take care of us if it came to it. 

I know a few couples like this and each wife doesn't fully respect the husband even though each one agreed to it. 

Contrary to what some men think you don't need to make more than us, at least for a lot of us. I make more and I'm fine with that because my hb works and contributes what he has. That's enough for me to respect him.


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## Blondilocks

How can it not get better? Since your first post, you've tolerated 3 1/2 more years of an angry, tantrum-throwing, non-working, lazy around the house, insulting, arrogant man-child. That's 3 1/2 more years of crap behavior your sons have observed and stored in their little memory banks as to how a man acts. You have limited time left to teach your sons what being an adult means. Good luck.


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## Lifeiscomplicated

x598 said:


> well I am going to offer some different advice.
> 
> the worn out, much over used, "i'm not happy" excuse.....well frankly I think you are kidding yourself. when you divorce, you are going to find out the grass isn't greener (another over used cliché, but still applicable) will be a hard and bitter lesson.
> 
> What are you expecting......to find a decent man later on....to only then figure out he wants sex a couple of times a week too? I find it interesting that you seem prepared to walk from the marriage since your needs aren't being met.....but see no valid reason HIS needs should be met, and even admit to not meeting them.
> 
> while it is good to be optimistic....you run the very real chance of destroying something that once upon a time you felt strong enough about to take vows on. The very real possibility that some of your desires in the relationship that aren't being met are all going to be fixed by finding someone new is very slim.
> 
> I agree there are times to give up, but I don't believe for a second you have done anything and everything in your power to address the issues you have with him, real or imagined. This would include IC for you alone.
> 
> good luck to you...my advice was not meant to be harsh or a criticism, just to make you pause and think about what you are really getting yourself into.


I believe that the ‘Grass can be Greener’ for some people who choose to leave their relationships and not such the case for others and it all boils down to luck. I know some women who marriages ended in their late 20’s, 30’s and early 40’s and are still single years later. Some are childless because they couldn’t find a suitable partner to settle down with. The same goes for my single girlfriends who have never married and are now in their late 40’s who also cannot find anyone suitable to share their lives with. All these women are incredibly attractive with great personalities and their standards I don’t feel are too high. Then I know other women meeting “Mr Right” soon after separating or divorcing. 

I know that I found it very difficult in my 20’s to find a decent man let alone now at age 50 and I would love to meet someone again if I was to divorce but what are my chances of meeting that special person especially if I have kids and on limited funds. For me that is a huge risk to take and I don’t know if I could take that chance and get lucky or risk spending the rest of my life alone.

What I would like to see is how long a lot of these new relationships will last beyond the initial 3 to 4 years once the honeymoon phase is over because you see so many getting engaged, remarried or moving in with one another within a year of meeting. I bet you a lot of these sexual incompatibility problems that ended their last marriages will happened again in their new marriages later down the track due to complacency, aging, hormones, illness etc.

Saying that the ‘Grass is Greener’ to people contemplating on leaving their marriage is wrong because not everyone is going to go on and find their ‘soul mate’. It will depend on whether you still have dependent children living with you. If you are financially stable. Better chances of finding someone when you are younger, however, it will be much harder for older people in their late 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and upwards to find a suitable partner. Again, I know quite a few people who have lost their partners and would love to have the companionship of another person but cannot find anyone who is interested in them and not their money.

Again, I think it is also harder for the older single woman to find a decent guy close to her age because unfortunately a lot of older men prefer to go out with younger women even if they don’t want to have any more children, again which leaves the availability of 2:1 ratio for every single middle aged man mid 40’s and above who chooses to date an older women or a woman their own age.


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## Thound

MEM2020 said:


> I was really sympathetic until I got to this post.
> 
> I will tell you what I told my wife of 25+ years (we have been together almost 28) early in our marriage.
> 
> My knee jerk reaction is to put you and your desires first. That's just a hard wired response. If you can't do the same for me in this one area of our marriage - we probably shouldn't be together. And no - that doesn't mean sex on demand.
> 
> What it does mean is this. If you are calculating the bare minimum you can do for me, and have the marriage survive, that isn't about me, that's about you. It isn't love, it's self preservation. And if that's where we are, we shouldn't be together.


Wow. That is a powerful and truthful statement. Really hits home with me.


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## 3Xnocharm

@Running Mom, how are things going?


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## Diana7

Running Mom said:


> Thanks for the replies and support. This is why I really love this forum! I first wrote this post right after I told him we should split up. A few hours later we talked for hours and hours and have agreed to go to a marriage counselor. Even though we aren't getting divorced right now, I do feel like a huge weight has been lifted just by telling him that it's been on my mind. We've talked about divorce in the past and he's always been the one to bring it up. I thought I was just finally telling him that I agreed. But then he told me that he didn't really want to get divorced - he just sometimes says that because he's hurt and feels like he needs to say something shocking to get me to understand how serious he is.
> 
> He says his only problem with me is that we don't have enough sex. We've been fighting about sex for years now and I'm just so tired of it. If we don't have sex as often as he wants (which he says is way less than he REALLY wants but he's compromising with me), then he gets cranky and withdraws from me and I get very lonely and feel like there is nothing between us and that ALL he wants from me is sex and if he doesn't get that then nothing else I do has any meaning. When he's withdrawn, I don't feel like having sex and we get in this same loop of bad moods and no affection and no sex because there are bad moods and no affection.
> 
> Hopefully a marriage counselor can help us communicate a little better.


A man needs sex in order to be able to emotionally connect with and and open up to his wife. If you were able to stop refusing him sex so much things would almost certainly improve and bring you closer. Unless he is being really demanding, like wanting sex twice a day or something, then why refuse him? It will help the strengthen the marriage. I so hope that you dont get divorced, its so terrible damaging for the children and when there is no abuse or cheating there is always a way through difficulties. 
I hope the counseling helps.


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## SunCMars

Lifeiscomplicated said:


> I believe that the ‘Grass can be Greener’ for some people who choose to leave their relationships and not such the case for others and it all boils down to luck. I know some women who marriages ended in their late 20’s, 30’s and early 40’s and are still single years later. Some are childless because they couldn’t find a suitable partner to settle down with. The same goes for my single girlfriends who have never married and are now in their late 40’s who also cannot find anyone suitable to share their lives with. All these women are incredibly attractive with great personalities and their standards I don’t feel are too high. Then I know other women meeting “Mr Right” soon after separating or divorcing.
> 
> I know that I found it very difficult in my 20’s to find a decent man let alone now at age 50 and I would love to meet someone again if I was to divorce but what are my chances of meeting that special person especially if I have kids and on limited funds. For me that is a huge risk to take and I don’t know if I could take that chance and get lucky or risk spending the rest of my life alone.
> 
> What I would like to see is how long a lot of these new relationships will last beyond the initial 3 to 4 years once the honeymoon phase is over because you see so many getting engaged, remarried or moving in with one another within a year of meeting. I bet you a lot of these sexual incompatibility problems that ended their last marriages will happened again in their new marriages later down the track due to complacency, aging, hormones, illness etc.
> 
> Saying that the ‘Grass is Greener’ to people contemplating on leaving their marriage is wrong because not everyone is going to go on and find their ‘soul mate’. It will depend on whether you still have dependent children living with you. If you are financially stable. Better chances of finding someone when you are younger, however, it will be much harder for older people in their late 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and upwards to find a suitable partner. Again, I know quite a few people who have lost their partners and would love to have the companionship of another person but cannot find anyone who is interested in them and not their money.
> 
> Again, I think it is also harder for the older single woman to find a decent guy close to her age because unfortunately *a lot of older men prefer to go out with younger women* even if they don’t want to have any more children, again which leaves the availability of 2:1 ratio for every single middle aged man mid 40’s and above who chooses to date an older women or a woman their own age.



This post is right on the mark.

A lot depends on luck.
A lot depends on wide exposure. Belonging to many organizations and involved in many activities. Activities that men are participating in. Net working these activities help. Letting others be matchmakers helps.
A lot depends on "Being fun to be with". Keeping the sour puss, locked up. Or turn the frown upside down...huh? No, turn it 180! Corners pointing up at a glance in the mirror. 

Why do a lot of men want to go out with younger women? The chances are better that they are more active, less set in their ways. And, less dour. Less business like. More spontaneous. And they think that younger women will enjoy sex more. No more duty sex. Is this true? Not necessarilly. Any age man or women can be a Fogey. Or worse, a Curmudgeon.

Be a light hearted friendly soul. Smile a lot, even in the face of pain. This is hard to do. Easier to do when dating......when you stomach turns sour. You go home to Mr. Bromo Seltzer and drink his fizz.

When men ask about your interests, tell then that you like to be active, like to do outdoor activities, you like sports, travel, hand holding....intimacy if the right guy arrives. This may be a White Lie, but bend a little to gain a lot. 

Make the man feel good about himself. They are so easily pleased.


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## Diana7

SunCMars said:


> This post is right on the mark.
> 
> A lot depends on luck.
> A lot depends on wide exposure. Belonging to many organizations and involved in many activities. Activities that men are participating in. Net working these activities help. Letting others be matchmakers helps.
> A lot depends on "Being fun to be with". Keeping the sour puss, locked up. Or turn the frown upside down...huh? No, turn it 180! Corners pointing up at a glance in the mirror.
> 
> Why do a lot of men want to go out with younger women? The chances are better that they are more active, less set in their ways. And, less dour. Less business like. More spontaneous. And they think that younger women will enjoy sex more. No more duty sex. Is this true? Not necessarilly. Any age man or women can be a Fogey. Or worse, a Curmudgeon.
> 
> Be a light hearted friendly soul. Smile a lot, even in the face of pain. This is hard to do. Easier to do when dating......when you stomach turns sour. You go home to Mr. Bromo Seltzer and drink his fizz.
> 
> When men ask about your interests, tell then that you like to be active, like to do outdoor activities, you like sports, travel, hand holding....intimacy if the right guy arrives. This may be a White Lie, but bend a little to gain a lot.
> 
> Make the man feel good about himself. They are so easily pleased.


I so admire men who will look for women of their own age. The trouble with some older men on the dating scene, is they they think they are still 21 and will make comments like ' women of my age cant keep up with me', and 'I look and act much younger than I am', all of course in their heads not in reality. Any man making such a crazy comment would put me off him immediately. I mean when my daughter was on a dating site in her early 30's she had men of my age in their 50s contacting her, I mean yuk. :| 
Many of them want a younger lady for their own ego and to make them feel young and virile, but its pathetic really. :frown2: Many women of their age have far more energy than they do, and women live longer anyway.

I am thankful that the man I met and married in my late 40's wasn't bothered that he was a year younger than me.


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## Red Sonja

bandit.45 said:


> You know, there are women on this forum and out in the world who would give ten years off their life to have a husband who desires them sexually.


** raises hand ** That would be me. I would gladly agree to give up the rest of my life in return for a few years with such a man.

Sad I know, but very true.


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## Satya

Behind every younger woman is an older one waiting to happen. 

I've known plenty of older women in my life who had this mature zest for life that a younger woman just can't know (unless she's very mature for her age). 

An older man I once knew, a serial dater, told me he was tired of dating younger women. When I asked why, he said that they were usually like cotton candy - something you crave, then you realize how sweet it is, you get sick of it fast, and you always bin it because you can't possibly finish it. 

I know, I know...


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## ABHale

Why are you dependent on your spouse for your happiness?

Has he done things to hurt you on purpose?

Other people can not "make" you happy. You have to do that yourself. Your own happiness comes from you. 

Now if he is abusing you then yes leave the POS.

If he is a bad father and husband then leave him and protect the kids. 

But, if he is doing everything he can for you, the kids and the marriage, then you need to look in the mirror to figure this out. This is on you if you can say he's a good husband and father. 

Also, I can very well understand him being upset if he has been trying his best for two years to fix the marriage. Then you come along and drop the ILYBNILWY bomb in him. And no he would have never have tried to fix if he was not in love with you. 

I think you should figure out why your not happy before you make a change. You might find when you are all alone that no one else is making you happy.


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