# Tell the husband of OW?



## Naivenomore (Jan 28, 2020)

I'm needing some practical advice. If you've decided to give your SO one more chance to stop texting other women... I know, I know, I'm an idiot, but he now says it's an addiction and he now is trying to get help through individual counseling. He uses the excuse of being touched inappropriately by his female babysitter when he was 10. She was 16. I do consider him a victim of molestation, but he has been known to Gaslight me and it has been over a year of him lying and trying to cover it up before finally revealing this as his excuse. I've told him so many times that I can no longer endure the pain and he is finally willing to get help. I will support him until the day I die in encouraging him to heal from his childhood abuse, but every time I want to talk about his behavior, it switches to me consoling him regarding his trauma. I of course then feel like a jerk for being insensitive. I've been seeing a counselor since I found out over a year ago. If you've read any of my posts, you know that he has told me so many times that he has stopped and I keep accidentally finding out that it's continued with at least 9 different women. 
I have now spoken with six of them and oddly found strength and sisterhood support. Long, candid, kind conversations.They had no idea I existed. All of them basically said run. I approached it delicately, stating that I know he was the instigator, which they all confirmed. They are all ex-girlfriends whom he met on dating websites, casually dated, but it never led to anything longer. They all revealed that they had been intimate with him, but it sounds like mostly friends with benefits. All sex was before he met me.
There are two I won't contact because they were definitely long term emotional affairs. Both are married and knew about me. They are the only ones I feel could threaten our relationship, if I even want to continue. 
I've read from many to tell the spouses, but I don't understand how that wouldn't backfire. Husband informs wife, wife tells my SO, drama ensues. When I flippantly asked if their husbands knew, my SO became upset. In fact, one of the gals in the unknowing flirt group said his EA with one of these married ladies was why she lost serious interest, though that didn't stop the sexting.
The husband had found out about 3 yrs ago, so my SO switched from text to her private work email.
Will it do more harm than good for me to call the husband?
I am meek and empathetic, so I know he'll trust my intentions are not to hurt him. 
Be brutal. I appreciate directness. Thanks.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

You should absolutely tell her husband. He has the absolute right to know his wife is an adulterer. Your SO should no longer be allowed to wallow in his excuses with impunity.

Your SO's excuses are just that. There is no valid reason in anything he stated to you which exonerates him from the CHOICES he made. What he's telling you is an attempt on his part to placate you and, as you say, is "gaslighting", which is an avoidance of the sharp reality your SO must face in order to repent of this evil.....and it is nothing more than continued prevarication.

As long as your SO can call this an "addiction", instead of a SIN against you, against your family, against the family and husbands of those he USED for his own cheap gratification, and against God, he stands no chance whatsoever of being "cured".

You asked for brutality. Well, here it is. You are going to suffer mercilessly at the hands of a serial fornicator, who lacks the kind of contrition required to get "healing" at this point in time. All of what he's currently saying to you is horse$hit.

The most likely thing that will happen, from this point, is that your SO will continue his fornication.

You have every good right to end your relationship, and be free from this pain and suffering. But, it is not for me to decide, the decision is yours.

You are not married to him, and you may very well thank God for it. Your SO already has a Saviour. Please, don't try to be Him. It's not your problem. The only thing "in this" for you is more pain.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Naivenomore said:


> he now says it's an addiction and he now is trying to get help through individual counseling


So what is he telling you about that counseling, and do you believe it?

Does he know you've talked to the women?

If he says it's an addiction and that he's desperately trying to stop, then you could tell him you want to help him ... by contacting the husbands ... and is that okay with him?

But really, he won't change until he wants to change, like any addict. And at the moment he doesn't want to. Tough love is called for. You may have to divorce him.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ask him for the contact information for that babysitter as you would like to have a chat with her. He'll say he doesn't know and then you can say that you will check with his parents. Watch his reaction.

So many cheaters are latching on to 'addiction' as their get out of jail card. Don't buy it.

In case it hasn't been said before, RUN!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Naivenomore said:


> I'm needing some practical advice. If you've decided to give your SO one more chance to stop texting other women... I know, I know, I'm an idiot, but he now says it's an addiction and he now is trying to get help through individual counseling. He uses the excuse of being touched inappropriately by his female babysitter when he was 10. She was 16. I do consider him a victim of molestation, but he has been known to Gaslight me and it has been over a year of him lying and trying to cover it up before finally revealing this as his excuse. I've told him so many times that I can no longer endure the pain and he is finally willing to get help. I will support him until the day I die in encouraging him to heal from his childhood abuse, but every time I want to talk about his behavior, it switches to me consoling him regarding his trauma. I of course then feel like a jerk for being insensitive. I've been seeing a counselor since I found out over a year ago. If you've read any of my posts, you know that he has told me so many times that he has stopped and I keep accidentally finding out that it's continued with at least 9 different women.
> I have now spoken with six of them and oddly found strength and sisterhood support. Long, candid, kind conversations.They had no idea I existed. All of them basically said run. I approached it delicately, stating that I know he was the instigator, which they all confirmed. They are all ex-girlfriends whom he met on dating websites, casually dated, but it never led to anything longer. They all revealed that they had been intimate with him, but it sounds like mostly friends with benefits. All sex was before he met me.
> There are two I won't contact because they were definitely long term emotional affairs. Both are married and knew about me. They are the only ones I feel could threaten our relationship, if I even want to continue.
> I've read from many to tell the spouses, but I don't understand how that wouldn't backfire. Husband informs wife, wife tells my SO, drama ensues. When I flippantly asked if their husbands knew, my SO became upset. In fact, one of the gals in the unknowing flirt group said his EA with one of these married ladies was why she lost serious interest, though that didn't stop the sexting.
> ...


This man is utterly broken and you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of pain. I don't know why you are here looking for people to justify why you should still be with him.
Run as far as you can, or do you think so little of yourself and your own worth, you are prepared to try and 'fix' him. You should be asking the question of yourself and your counsellor, why do you feel the need to stay around this trauma and be with someone who lies to you, gaslights you, negates your pain and makes it all about his childhood abuse, why?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

P.S. Please tell the OM about his **** wife, let someone make a choice about their own future.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He tells you he was molested. That might be a lie.

The only truth you know is that he is a cheater and your actions (actions to benefit you, not him) must be based on that which you know for certain, not potentially fictional pieces of gaslighting.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hey, what youg man didn't want his babysitter, if she was a hot teen?

(Just kidding in most respects, although at 12 and 13 it's more likely all the time) if she was hot.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I'm rarely one to recommend exposure, but I do in this case. I guess I get the feeling there is some poor guy out there wondering what went wrong in his marriage and is making an effort to make things better, when the reality is his wife is checked out. I'd let any husbands know. It will upset your spouse, but at the same time it will also show him that there are consequences to his behavior. With that said I do have one caveat, you never know how a person is going to react. You could be setting up a domestic violence incident in someone else's home, or one of the betrayed husbands, might want to punch your husband, but I don't see either of those scenarios as likely.


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## Naivenomore (Jan 28, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> So what is he telling you about that counseling, and do you believe it?
> 
> Does he know you've talked to the women?
> 
> ...



Thank you for this clarity. Thus far, he has googled a plethora of info regarding the childhood fondling and has joined an online abuse victims support group. Abuse, yes, but he touched her privates as well. He was only 10 so I do see how this could mess him up. I'm not trying to make light of it, but my therapist (he's attended a few of my sessions) says he needs individual weekly therapy. She said online support groups help, but cannot be in lieu of therapy. She says he demonstrates narcissistic qualities.

I plan to tell him that I spoke with his exes/flirtations. I'm terrible with secrets and the conversations confirmed as he said that these are not physical affairs. Yet ALL said that he always asked and the gals just played along. What if they had said yes to his playful advances? All told me they never would have. (Perhaps fibbing to avoid hurting my feelings.)
He moved 2 hours away to be with me and really only sexts them when he's in their area, w/o me of course. My conversations with the gals was this week so I need time (and advice please) before telling him.

Telling the husbands of the EAs will definitely anger and probably terrify my SO. My intention is not to hurt anyone, but one poor husband already busted their texts over 3 yrs ago so he may actually want to know the EA is stronger than ever, might even have been physical at times. Perhaps he already does know.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I've read your posts and don't think you've mentioned this but I'm assuming you're not married to your SO. Please correct me if that's not true. 

How long have you two been dating?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The OP isn't responsible for the ramifications of the cheating.


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## Naivenomore (Jan 28, 2020)

ReformedHubby said:


> I'm rarely one to recommend exposure, but I do in this case. I guess I get the feeling there is some poor guy out there wondering what went wrong in his marriage and is making an effort to make things better, when the reality is his wife is checked out. I'd let any husbands know. It will upset your spouse, but at the same time it will also show him that there are consequences to his behavior. With that said I do have one caveat, you never know how a person is going to react. You could be setting up a domestic violence incident in someone else's home, or one of the betrayed husbands, might want to punch your husband, but I don't see either of those scenarios as likely.


My SO is somewhat self-righteous, claiming such high values from Catholic upbringing. I was raised Catholic, but apparently my church used a different moral compass. I believe if he has such moral character, he would have sympathy and be ok with me telling the husband. The EA is over, right? So there should be no collateral damage to his relationship with the gal. In fact the reaction of my SO to my new friendships with the flirtations and my telling the husband of the SO would be an excellent revelation of his true character. I am curious to find out, but scared.


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## Naivenomore (Jan 28, 2020)

Lila said:


> I've read your posts and don't think you've mentioned this but I'm assuming you're not married to your SO. Please correct me if that's not true.
> 
> How long have you two been dating?


You are correct. He has wanted to get married since we started dating 3 yrs ago. We texted for a long time after meeting on dating site. He has always been over the top verbally expressing his love for me and is very amorous. Sex life is excellent. He's never been married, says he's waited all his 54 years to find me. Blah blah.... that sounds mean of me, but before he moved in with me, I was just one of his sext ladies. He gave notice on his apt. and moved into my house because being apart (2hrs away) was too difficult since he knew we were spending the rest of our lives together. 
Side note: I am very financially secure and went through a terrible divorce. I'm not stating this to brag, I'm actually extremely modest. However, I find it important because my SO claims to be an economic guru, but has nothing but debt. He does not help out financially, but I don't blame him because material things never used to be an issue to me and if we truly were going to end up forever, it's a non-issue. It's now become a huge issue (red flag) because I wonder if the money I constantly give him (a lot) is just enabling this behavior. So now even the little things bug me. (ie he drives the truck I paid for to see Vikings games I paid for and then meets his "platonic flirtations" for happy hour). He knows that I'm not interested in a marriage, though I do want a committed life partner. Reason for being marriage shy is that I left a long marriage with a bully (yes my therapist has acknowledged my pattern as a caretaker, lol) I didn't have a pre-nup and was married to a man (again I am insecure) who felt he didn't need to work due to my success and consequently demanded spousal maintenance. I hope this info helps without appearing boastful.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Please, please (I'm begging you) cut this 54 year old loser loose. Give him a 30 day eviction notice and work on your issues.

P.S. He probably has a string of failed marriages under his belt.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Ask him for the contact information for that babysitter as you would like to have a chat with her. He'll say he doesn't know and then you can say that you will check with his parents. Watch his reaction.
> 
> So many cheaters are latching on to 'addiction' as their get out of jail card. Don't buy it.
> 
> In case it hasn't been said before, RUN!


I have to agree with this in a lot of way. I was "molested" so to speak by an older woman when I was 12. 

I know technically I was abused but I have to say it was great. I guess that makes me really messed up. 

But, I can keep it in my pants, if i have to, which I don't because I don't want to. But I am capable of being faithful to one woman, which I have been for several years now...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

At this point, you must really like to have endless drama in your life. He's broken, and fixing him isn't your problem. Especially as he doesn't really seem to want to be fixed, he's just using it to keep you in his life.

Sure, he's a master manipulator, but you keep going right back to it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Naivenomore said:


> The husband had found out about 3 yrs ago, so my SO switched from text to her private work email.
> Will it do more harm than good for me to call the husband?
> I am meek and empathetic, so I know he'll trust my intentions are not to hurt him.
> Be brutal. I appreciate directness. Thanks.


I'm not sure if I've responded to your threads before, so this may or may not be a repeat.

You are in a difficult position. You've probably heard the term "Secondary Survivor", which is what you are. Your husband is the victim, or the "Survivor" of childhood sex abuse. You as his spouse are a "Secondary", as would be his other very close relationships. Being a Secondary is no-win in pretty much every way.

Yes he needs good qualified trauma therapy. It is admirable that you are standing by him with it. But, you too are suffering from the abuse now, indirectly, through him. He may not be intending to harm you, but his actions do harm you. And, you see something good in him. This is quite typical. There are few resources for Secondary Survivors, and most abuse forums are quite toxic to Secondaries. If you poke around you'll discover you have very many peers in the same kind of situation you are. And you'll also discover there are some differences between the victims and the secondaries which cannot be reconciled.

As a good person, you naturally have great sympathy for him, and you don't want to hurt him. You feel deeply sorry for the child who was harmed. He does things now which hurt you deeply, and that causes you conflict. You can understand how what happened to him through no fault of his own as a child is a factor in his behavior today. So you want to be the good person, the understanding person, the supportive spouse, and you don't want to be yet another person who hurt him.

Yet he is doing things that hurt you deeply.

This is the position of the Secondary. And you need to understand that to some extent even in the best case it will always be this way. Imho, the correct approach as the Secondary is to require consistent measurable improvements in his behavior, along with open honesty from him about his struggles. One of my counselors equated it to alcohol abuse. Being substance addicted may have roots not chosen by the addict, but they can choose to work hard to overcome it. There are many accessible resources for help. And they can be open with their spouse about the struggles. 

This may be enough for the spouse to find the marriage acceptable when the addict is working hard, making measurable progress, and being honest about what is going on. Or, possibly, it may still not be enough to make the marriage acceptable. And that is ok! There is no law saying you must put up with an unacceptable marriage _even if the other person is trying to improve_. You don't have to feel guilty if you find the marriage not acceptable. Even if he was abused, and even if he is going to therapy. Your marriage may still not be acceptable to you. That is your right to determine.

On the other hand, the addict may be unable to make the effort. For whatever reason, there is some defect in them which prevents them from taking advantage of resources and they continue to use the substance. If your husband were an alcoholic who kept falling off the wagon, you would rightfully determine he has a flaw which makes it impossible for him to recover sufficiently to be a good spouse for you.

And, you can be really saddened about the unfairness of the situation for him, too. Many tears have been shed by Secondaries! 

Now on to a different aspect of all this. His bad behavior may or may not be related to his abuse experiences. It is a handy excuse. And maybe it is related. But that is not relevant. Either your marriage is acceptable to you or it is not. I like to compare it to classic investing advice. Imagine you own a particular investment today. It doesn't matter what it was worth yesterday or 10 years ago. That should not influence your decision to keep it or get rid of it. You should ask yourself today would you buy that investment today. If yes, then keep it. If no, then get rid of it. 

Either your marriage is acceptable today or it is not. Would you marry him today if you knew of this behavior? Imho, his repeated failings with contacting these other women is unacceptable, and he shows no sign of being honest with you about it and no sign of wanting to even try changing his behavior. That's my opinion. I would find such a marriage unacceptable today, and I would not start a relationship with that person today.


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## Naivenomore (Jan 28, 2020)

Thor said:


> I'm not sure if I've responded to your threads before, so this may or may not be a repeat.
> 
> You are in a difficult position. You've probably heard the term "Secondary Survivor", which is what you are. Your husband is the victim, or the "Survivor" of childhood sex abuse. You as his spouse are a "Secondary", as would be his other very close relationships. Being a Secondary is no-win in pretty much every way.
> 
> ...


This hit me to the core. Thank you. It actually made me cry. I don't want to be in-humane if he is really this broken, but his behavior and most importantly the lies saying he had stopped and a full year of hearing me cry in the shower, telling me he will spend the rest of his life proving he's stopped, saying that his love is strong enough to get us both through it, that we will be stronger one day because of this..... etc.... it has changed the dynamics of our relationship. I don't know how to rebuild trust. 
I would love to share your words with him (not this thread nor this site) to help him put himself in my shoes. He will adamantly disagree with your last paragraph. " *he shows no sign of being honest with you about it and no sign of wanting to even try changing his behavior." * Actually, he has apologized and said it has stopped every time I've discovered it. We have the identical phone, so I found most texts by accident. He juggled all of them simultaneously and was often careless. The lies were so ridiculous they insulted me (ie he was helping one of the gals masturbate via text because she's in a sexless marriage, come on!!). When I said I just can't continue hurting like this, he revealed the molestation and I ended up consoling him, making it impossible to be super angry... he stole my thunder. He says now that he knows he can trust me with the secret, he no longer needs the other coping devices, EAs. I said I don't think it works like that, it's not a light switch. So I said he needs to get help if he wants to stay. Frankly, I'm deeply hurt that he even thought I couldn't be "trusted" with his secret. I do believe that is an excuse. I'm overly nurturing and compassionate, he will often say too much so. Thank you for listening. Everyone has been enormously helpful.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Naivenomore said:


> My SO is somewhat self-righteous, claiming such high values from Catholic upbringing. I was raised Catholic, but apparently my church used a different moral compass. I believe if he has such moral character, he would have sympathy and be ok with me telling the husband. The EA is over, right? So there should be no collateral damage to his relationship with the gal. In fact the reaction of my SO to my new friendships with the flirtations and my telling the husband of the SO would be an excellent revelation of his true character. I am curious to find out, but scared.


Have your SO watch Keepers on Netflix; then ask her if those are the "catholic" values that she was taught.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He’s never been married at 54 and now wants to? He has lots of debt and you’re financially secure? And now these continuing issues? No. Just no. He’s a user and if you’re not careful you’ll become an full-time enabler. Move on.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

I just don’t see what’s appealing about this guy?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Naivenomore said:


> You are correct. He has wanted to get married since we started dating 3 yrs ago. We texted for a long time after meeting on dating site. He has always been over the top verbally expressing his love for me and is very amorous. Sex life is excellent. He's never been married, says he's waited all his 54 years to find me. Blah blah.... that sounds mean of me, but before he moved in with me, I was just one of his sext ladies. He gave notice on his apt. and moved into my house because being apart (2hrs away) was too difficult since he knew we were spending the rest of our lives together.
> Side note: I am very financially secure and went through a terrible divorce. I'm not stating this to brag, I'm actually extremely modest. However, I find it important because my SO claims to be an economic guru, but has nothing but debt. He does not help out financially, but I don't blame him because material things never used to be an issue to me and if we truly were going to end up forever, it's a non-issue. It's now become a huge issue (red flag) because I wonder if the money I constantly give him (a lot) is just enabling this behavior. So now even the little things bug me. (ie he drives the truck I paid for to see Vikings games I paid for and then meets his "platonic flirtations" for happy hour). He knows that I'm not interested in a marriage, though I do want a committed life partner. Reason for being marriage shy is that I left a long marriage with a bully (yes my therapist has acknowledged my pattern as a caretaker, lol) I didn't have a pre-nup and was married to a man (again I am insecure) who felt he didn't need to work due to my success and consequently demanded spousal maintenance. I hope this info helps without appearing boastful.


Him and the AP constitute an A/B situation.
You need to C your way out of it. Quickly.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Run please please please. He is using you, can’t you see that. You are a great catch for a decent man who brings his own money/assets to the table. Run


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

If you moved the guy into your house without benefit of marriage, then neither of you are expressing Catholic values.

That aside, Jeezuz, kick him out!

He's a risky project, a liar, and a cheat. Touched by a babysitter? Sure, right.

You are being used.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Sounds like a narcissist to me. Charming, tells you what you want to hear, always is the victim, always does what he wants to do, uses people, master manipulator blah blah blah. 

Run away from him. Find someone who brings you up, and fills you up. Not someone who takes takes and takes. 

Please do research on being in a relationship with a narcissist. I was married to one and it sucked my soul dry and left me half of a person. But I escaped.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What happened to him as a child (if it did happen) he didn’t have control of that.

but his actions now he should and does have control over. And consistently he has shown you that he chooses to hurt you.

trust is earned - and he’s never earned your trust and still doesn’t intend to earn it. You have NO relationship without trust!

any man who hurts you - you should end it! Add to that - that this guy is a complete mooch and you should definitely end it now!

there are good men in the world to date - you don’t need a man moving himself into your home (that should have been a huge red flag). But paying his way on top of that is just unbelievable. Stop paying for anything. And make him move. Pay attention as he moves because an opportunist like him will steal from you on his way out the door.

the guy isn’t gonna change - he’s just gonna lie as long as you will believe him. Stop letting him mooch off you - he mainly thinks he hit the money jackpot and doesn’t want to change a thing.

date men who support themselves and OFFER YOU things in life that make life better. This guy isn’t that kind of guy.

get rid of him ASAP. He will only hurt you more and more.

and yes notify the husbands of his OW - those husbands have a right to know who they are married to and what they are doing. Who cares what your boyfriend says - he lost his right to have a say when he continued lying to you. He looks like a true narcissist.Are you sure he doesn’t so drugs? So many druggies show the same behaviors you’ve described.


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## Naivenomore (Jan 28, 2020)

Tdbo said:


> Him and the AP constitute an A/B situation.
> You need to C your way out of it. Quickly.


I'm going to sound stupid, but I have to ask. Is there a glossary to find what the initials stand for?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Naivenomore said:


> I'm going to sound stupid, but I have to ask. Is there a glossary to find what the initials stand for?


A=Husband
B=Affair Partner 
C= See her way out of it, meaning separation/divorce.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Naivenomore said:


> I'm going to sound stupid, but I have to ask. Is there a glossary to find what the initials stand for?


Yes there is a glossary. There's the link:









Common Message Board Abbreviations & Acronyms


Need to put together a list of common abbreviations for people new to online message boards.... here is a start: AAMOF = as a matter of fact AP = Affair Partner ASAP = as soon as possible ASAP = as soon as possible b/c = because BAK = back at keyboard BBFN = bye bye for now BBL = be back later...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Yes there is a glossary. There's the link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OW other woman
OM other man
A affair
M marriage
D divorce
DD discovery day


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Naivenomore said:


> When I said I just can't continue hurting like this, he revealed the molestation and I ended up consoling him, making it impossible to be super angry... he stole my thunder. He says now that he knows he can trust me with the secret, he no longer needs the other coping devices, EAs. I said I don't think it works like that, it's not a light switch. So I said he needs to get help if he wants to stay. Frankly, I'm deeply hurt that he even thought I couldn't be "trusted" with his secret. I do believe that is an excuse. I'm overly nurturing and compassionate, he will often say too much so.


I'm glad I was able to help. Sorry if this post gets a bit long.

It is typical for the CSA victim to hide it from everyone. I am not well informed about male victims but there is a lot of overlap with female victims (which my xw was). As a child they were exposed to sexuality before they were physically mature and before they were old enough to understand it in perspective. Furthermore, much of the damage of the abuse is due to what happened afterwards. The perp usually threatens the victim if they tell anyone. Many times the perp will shame the victim, telling them nobody will love them if the secret gets out. When the victim does tell a trusted adult, frequently the adult dismisses it or tells the victim they will be outcast from society if they tell anyone else.

Basically there is a lot of shaming. The child learns that the abuse makes them unloveable. Sometimes they have a really bad experience telling a romantic partner when they are a young adult. Idk about male victims, but female victims frequently go on to be victimized by numerous other people. So this can get pretty deep.

So, the secret must be protected. If anyone finds out they were molested, it means they are dirt. It is the deepest fear they have, being found out for being the unloveable person they believe they really are. That is how they view it. Remember, they were a young child and so they reacted to all of this from that standpoint. You and I know they were the victim of a criminal act, but they internalize it that they were unloveable.

So this is why he didn't tell you sooner. That is really typical. And this is one of those unreconcilable differences I mentioned in my first post. You see it as a betrayal that he didn't tell you sooner. And, you would be right. But you cannot ever say that to him. Or if you do it won't be taken in the way you intend.

My now xw did the same thing, pulling out the "I was sexually abused as a child" card when I finally reached the end of my rope and said divorce was imminent if things didn't change. How unfair! As if the abuse excuses their cheating and disloyalties in the marriage. See it for what it is, a play for your sympathy.

Honestly I don't know of any marriage which has survived and been happy after this kind of timeline. I do know some marriages thrive when the abuse is known early on and both partners put in a lot of work with qualified therapists. Your situation is much like mine was, and many others here on TAM. Your husband has to do a lot of heavy lifting. 

His abuse is not an excuse!

So this is why being a Secondary is so tough. He whipped out the abuse card _because he knows you are a nurturing and compassionate person_. It was probably one of the big things he liked about you from the beginning. _You were *safe*_. And now you may become *un*safe because you know about the abuse. This is a real minefield, and you need to evaluate every day if you want to stay in it. This is where some of his abuse is going to get passed on to you, too. You cannot be his therapist, but you can be his cheerleader in his recovery if he genuinely asks you to and if he genuinely is working hard on his therapy.

But he is who he is. This is something else Secondaries frequently don't realize. Therapy isn't going to change his deep value system. Therapy may help with the anxieties, and he may learn different behaviors, but his value system was encoded at a young age.

This last point is very important. He believes deceiving you is acceptable if it protects him. This is why the person you know as a good person is also able to do those terribly hurtful things to you. He believes it is ok to have a secret life and to keep it from you, even if he has to make up ridiculous lies to do so. This is an extension of hiding the fact of the abuse from everyone. Lying was a valid strategy to protect himself. That has become more and more generalized into lying about a lot of things being ok if it protects him from outcomes he doesn't want.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Beach123 said:


> What happened to him as a child (if it did happen) he didn’t have control of that.
> 
> but his actions now he should and does have control over. And consistently he has shown you that he chooses to hurt you.


Naivenomore, that entire post from Beach is excellent. It is written from what seems like the perspective of someone who has not lived with an abuse victim so it gets to the important kernel. Either your relationship is acceptable or it is not. Period. Everything else is just background. The Secondary can get sucked into trying to help the victim, because you are that nurturing caring person. There are two separate issues which should be kept in two separate containers. One is your relationship, the other is his recovery from the trauma. If your relationship is ok enough, then you can stay in it while helping with his recovery. If your relationship is not acceptable, end it. Don't let your sympathy for him override everything else.


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## Dr Will (Apr 25, 2020)

Naivenomore said:


> I'm needing some practical advice. If you've decided to give your SO one more chance to stop texting other women... I know, I know, I'm an idiot, but he now says it's an addiction and he now is trying to get help through individual counseling. He uses the excuse of being touched inappropriately by his female babysitter when he was 10. She was 16. I do consider him a victim of molestation, but he has been known to Gaslight me and it has been over a year of him lying and trying to cover it up before finally revealing this as his excuse. I've told him so many times that I can no longer endure the pain and he is finally willing to get help. I will support him until the day I die in encouraging him to heal from his childhood abuse, but every time I want to talk about his behavior, it switches to me consoling him regarding his trauma. I of course then feel like a jerk for being insensitive. I've been seeing a counselor since I found out over a year ago. If you've read any of my posts, you know that he has told me so many times that he has stopped and I keep accidentally finding out that it's continued with at least 9 different women.
> I have now spoken with six of them and oddly found strength and sisterhood support. Long, candid, kind conversations.They had no idea I existed. All of them basically said run. I approached it delicately, stating that I know he was the instigator, which they all confirmed. They are all ex-girlfriends whom he met on dating websites, casually dated, but it never led to anything longer. They all revealed that they had been intimate with him, but it sounds like mostly friends with benefits. All sex was before he met me.
> There are two I won't contact because they were definitely long term emotional affairs. Both are married and knew about me. They are the only ones I feel could threaten our relationship, if I even want to continue.
> I've read from many to tell the spouses, but I don't understand how that wouldn't backfire. Husband informs wife, wife tells my SO, drama ensues. When I flippantly asked if their husbands knew, my SO became upset. In fact, one of the gals in the unknowing flirt group said his EA with one of these married ladies was why she lost serious interest, though that didn't stop the sexting.
> ...


we have many cases were men have been abused. we have men who were raped by women in their teenage years. Never I have I had a case were this has led to habitual infidelity.Typical symptoms of abuse of this type are trust issues, not being able to for strong relationships with women. From what you tell me you SO is trying to control the situation with you. As to what you should do. If you contact the husbands the splash will we you too so going down that road may well end your relationship. See as lawyer and invite hi to marriage counselling not the counselling you were thinking of. If you are not happy you need that talk and if he hides behind the abuse then take him to a marriage council and have it out there.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*



Be brutal. I appreciate directness. Thanks.

Click to expand...

*It's the only way I know how to be.

*


Naivenomore said:



I'm needing some practical advice. If you've decided to give your SO one more chance to stop texting other women... I know, I know, I'm an idiot, but he now says it's an addiction and he now is trying to get help through individual counseling.

Click to expand...

*I actually laughed out loud when I read this garbage. Does this guy actually LISTEN to himself when he spews this nonsense?

So let's see. His *lies* to remove all accountability off of his shoulders for his sh!t behavior include:

he's "_addicted_" to texting women and just can't help himself
some supposed babysitter "touched him inappropriately when he was 10 years old" so therefore, *that *somehow makes him continually chase women
Does this fool have any other ridiculous fairy tales he'd like you to believe about how he's a victim of everyone and everything else? This guy is a walking cliche.

He left out the most *honest* reason for his cheating - that he's a lying snake and *enjoys* the cheap thrills he gets from cheating on you.

If you feed into his nonsnse abuse and addiction excuses, then don't be surprised when you make lots MORE discoveries in the future of the *same old crap behavior* from this liar that you're dealing with right now. You're just getting a big old dog and pony show from him so you won't leave him. But this time, his little show includes tossing out that old, tired "I need therapy!" bone to you. This is just what lots of cheaters say and do when they're hoping their wives won't leave them. He's NOT unique at *all*. Quite honestly, his ******** is about as predictable as death and taxes.

*



There are two I won't contact because they were definitely long term emotional affairs. Both are married and knew about me. They are the only ones I feel could threaten our relationship, if I even want to continue.

Click to expand...

*But how can they possibly be a threat to you when he's supposedly so *self aware*, now? According to him, he realizes that his "childhood abuse" and his "addiction" has victimized the poor soul into acting out inappropriately and he recognizes that he needs therapy, so why on earth would he be tempted by these women now?

Unless, of course, you have doubts about the fairy tales he's been telling you?

Do yourself a favor - save yourself future YEARS of this crap and listen to those women who TOLD you to run. Sadly, I can already see your post here a year or two from now, saying you should have listened to everyone who told you to run because he's still the same old cheater he's always been..

I think you should tell ALL the husbands and boyfriends of the women your boyfriend was soliciting.for side action. Better yet, since he's *SO* anxious to "heal himself" in therapy due to his abuse and addiction issues, maybe your boyfriend should call these men and tell them, himself. You know, as part of his "healing journey" and all.... 🙄 🙄 🙄


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Dr Will said:


> we have many cases were men have been abused. we have men who were raped by women in their teenage years. Never I have I had a case were this has led to habitual infidelity.Typical symptoms of abuse of this type are trust issues, not being able to for strong relationships with women. From what you tell me you SO is trying to control the situation with you. As to what you should do. If you contact the husbands the splash will we you too so going down that road may well end your relationship. See as lawyer and invite hi to marriage counselling not the counselling you were thinking of. If you are not happy you need that talk and if he hides behind the abuse then take him to a marriage council and have it out there.


Come on now, Doc. Please don't infuse actual FACTS into these fairy tales excuses!

You're *ruining* a great excuse for lots of men who get caught with their pants down and NEED to use the old, "I was molested" excuse that woman always fall for. Sadly, you can see it's working REAL well for the cheater in THIS thread.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My ex-husband was a serial cheater. His “reasons” related to his childhood. I never bought that. He cheated because he wanted to and I divorced him.

I experienced CSA when I was very young. There’s no doubt that it has complicated my life in many ways but I don’t use it as an excuse for anything I’ve done. My actions are my choice.

Your husband‘s playing you. Wake up.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

They're not married, so she has that going for her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> They're not married, so she has that going for her.


Definitely.

Move on and don’t look back.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Naivenomore said:


> I'm needing some practical advice. If you've decided to give your SO one more chance to stop texting other women... I know, I know, I'm an idiot, but he now says it's an addiction and he now is trying to get help through individual counseling. He uses the excuse of being touched inappropriately by his female babysitter when he was 10. She was 16. I do consider him a victim of molestation, but he has been known to Gaslight me and it has been over a year of him lying and trying to cover it up before finally revealing this as his excuse. I've told him so many times that I can no longer endure the pain and he is finally willing to get help. I will support him until the day I die in encouraging him to heal from his childhood abuse, but every time I want to talk about his behavior, it switches to me consoling him regarding his trauma. I of course then feel like a jerk for being insensitive. I've been seeing a counselor since I found out over a year ago. If you've read any of my posts, you know that he has told me so many times that he has stopped and I keep accidentally finding out that it's continued with at least 9 different women.
> I have now spoken with six of them and oddly found strength and sisterhood support. Long, candid, kind conversations.They had no idea I existed. All of them basically said run. I approached it delicately, stating that I know he was the instigator, which they all confirmed. They are all ex-girlfriends whom he met on dating websites, casually dated, but it never led to anything longer. They all revealed that they had been intimate with him, but it sounds like mostly friends with benefits. All sex was before he met me.
> There are two I won't contact because they were definitely long term emotional affairs. Both are married and knew about me. They are the only ones I feel could threaten our relationship, if I even want to continue.
> I've read from many to tell the spouses, but I don't understand how that wouldn't backfire. Husband informs wife, wife tells my SO, drama ensues. When I flippantly asked if their husbands knew, my SO became upset. In fact, one of the gals in the unknowing flirt group said his EA with one of these married ladies was why she lost serious interest, though that didn't stop the sexting.
> ...


I am of the mindset that a mate/spouse who is being cheated on or betrayed should ALWAYS know.
I would definitely want to know if I were being betrayed.
Any drama that could ever ensue is 100% caused by those who are doing wrong and being shady....NOT others who wouldn't keep their secrets for them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Naivenomore You need to RAQ = Run Away! Quick!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

This loser has found himself a meal ticket and free ride, as the OP states she's doing very well financially. The parasite actually moved 2 hours from where he lived (probably in a trailer or in someone's basement) over to Easy Street, in the OP's house.

The user doesn't pay any bills and comes with a significant amount of debt.

He sounds like SUCH a catch.

OP, does this perfect example of manhood have a twin brother, by chance? If he does, can you hook a sister up?


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

I recall you saying in your initial thread that you gave him $25,000 cash to play with in the stock market. And he lost it.

I'm sorry you're still here and unable to kick this POS out of your life. IMO he is preventing (and manipulating) you from living the best version of our life. 

Since you're unable to stand up for yourself in any discussion with him, my advice to you a long time ago was to (without warning) call the movers and move him into a hotel for a few days. You replied that it was a workable option because he has friends that he can turn to.

First distance yourself from his influence by moving him out.

Maybe it would help motivate you to exit this relationship if you reframe your relationship from a 3rd party point of you. For example, this is not love or romance - but rather a business transaction. 

He's your pet. He is not self sufficient and spent 54 years living off vulnerable women. You stay with him because he makes you feel good (you say you're a giver but IMO you really just enjoy having him slobber attention all over you).

He stays with you because you PAY him. Stop shopping for a IC that will validate this abusive transaction based relationship.

Kick him out of your life! You don't need a reason, explanation, or any further discussion with him.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Why are you holding on to someone who treats you the way he does?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I was all, kick him OUT based on the sexting alone. CSA or no. But hon, that you are financially secure and he's got a boatload of debt--I yell it from the rooftops--stop this nonsense life you are living with this mooch of a man. Get rid of him. Now. Right this minute. Why do you allow yourself such a low-brow life partner? Yikes, girl. Have more respect and love for yourself. You deserve way more than this douche is sucking from you. I won't even say "giving" you because he isn't giving you crap. Except lots and lots of heartache and an even lower self-esteem. Go ahead and lose that 180 lbs. real quick.

ETA: I think telling the husband of the OW is the very least of your problems. But since you asked,yes. I would tell him. Because I would want to know.


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## Naivenomore (Jan 28, 2020)

Thor said:


> I'm glad I was able to help. Sorry if this post gets a bit long.
> 
> It is typical for the CSA victim to hide it from everyone. I am not well informed about male victims but there is a lot of overlap with female victims (which my xw was). As a child they were exposed to sexuality before they were physically mature and before they were old enough to understand it in perspective. Furthermore, much of the damage of the abuse is due to what happened afterwards. The perp usually threatens the victim if they tell anyone. Many times the perp will shame the victim, telling them nobody will love them if the secret gets out. When the victim does tell a trusted adult, frequently the adult dismisses it or tells the victim they will be outcast from society if they tell anyone else.
> 
> ...


Once again, your validation that I am not alone has been an epiphany for me. I value all of the other comments., as well. However, I know that I am not at the point of trusting my own instincts and strength.... yet. I'll get there. 

The daily pendulum swinging between sympathy for his trauma and grief my trauma is physically and emotionally exhausting. I cannot reconcile how he can love me so much, yet still maintain so many EAs. When I try to emphasize how much it hurts me, he expresses how much he's also hurting himself and _us. _I feel that he is diminishing the significance of my pain by implying we're sharing this experience. It feels so unjust because I didn't cause his trauma while he clearly caused mine. He says it's finally over now that he has trusted me with his secret. I am still using present tense terms because it's all so fresh and I believe the only reason it has finally stopped is because I told him I can no longer deal with this pain. I've said this many times, but I gave him a move-out date this time. He is now willing to seek therapy, journaling, support groups... whatever it takes to heal what he calls his "ten year old self." I feel like a monster for not supporting that 10 yr old victim, yet I feel manipulated by the 54 yr old version.

Your words of wisdom and experience have given me enormous clarity. Thank you.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

What is the move out date? I ask because we can encourage you as the day approaches.

_*I cannot reconcile how he can love me so much, yet still maintain so many EAs.*_

His words seduce you into thinking he loves you but his actions say otherwise. Judge him by his actions not his words (promises). 

_When I try to emphasize how much it hurts me, he expresses how much he's also hurting himself and us. _

He not only minimizes/diminishes your pain and fails to recognize that you (not him) as the victim - but his response (an action) shows a lack of empathy for you. 

He is manipulating you by 'mirroring' your feelings (google it). He basically reflects your feelings back as if it's a feeling he shares with you. Mirroring is a basic counseling technique used by licensed therapists to build a bond with their patients. Mirroring is also a counseling technique (tool) that can be applied & abused by 'anyone' (your boyfriend) to manipulate you.

Your boyfriend is 54yo and very experienced at reading people and knowing what buttons to push. He has studied you and identified what your emotional needs are - and then depending on the situation he says/does whatever is necessary to get a response from you (including blocking or minimizing your pain).

*He is now willing to seek therapy, journaling, support groups... whatever it takes to heal what he calls his "ten year old self." *

Too late. He's doing the minimum which is evidence that he is not a candidate for reconciliation. He should have been doing the above from DD. 

BTW: *"ten year old self" *.... this guy is a master manipulator. That's a clever term he's using to minimize his behavior as that of an innocent child instead of the long term behavior that at it's core is: selfish, deceitful, entitled, and lacking in empathy for you. Society does not view a child's bad behavior as intentionally evil. However, a 54yo adult is not entitled to that free pass.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Naivenomore said:


> When I try to emphasize how much it hurts me, he expresses how much he's also hurting himself and _us. _I feel that he is diminishing the significance of my pain by implying we're sharing this experience. It feels so unjust because I didn't cause his trauma while he clearly caused mine.


Imagine the man who gets hit by a bus and then starts running other people over, including you, many, many times.

There is definitely a pathology at work here. When someone expresses a 'logic' that makes you feel like your head is slowly burning up from the inside out, the 'logic' isn't really logic. It's an inability to reason properly. It's a sign of dysfunction (or true stupidity, although I will go for dysfunction here).

I know what it's like to have your emotions ensnare you in an unhealthy place. We can all see that you should cut your losses with this man as of yesterday. Eventually your emotions will catch up with what your head should be telling you, which is that his pathology is becoming your pathology and that you need to save yourself.

Why not try the 180 to help you detach emotionally from him? It might be just what you need to allow reason to prevail.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Let's cut to the chase: you are paying this guy to screw you and other women. You're even providing the truck so he can get around. Why are you so desperate?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It’s fine IF he intends to work on himself... as long as he understands that he does that on his own - and that you don’t need to stand around and watch. It took him 44 years since his trauma started to get to this point - it could take 44 years more for him to get past that trauma!

you do NOT need to hold his hand!

you take care of yourself! And he deals with his own crap! (Or not...)

the likelihood of him doing the hard work is slim. You need him to move NOW!

I don’t care how much money you have to waste on this leech - you’d be better off donating money to people who need it.

please get professional help to look into your codependency issues.Why would you want a man who basically offers you nothing but sex - yet expects you to pay his way in life?

what job does this dude work? How much does he earn and how often does he actually go to work (when Covid isn’t present)?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The man is a lying piece of ****. His excuse of his childhood traumas is crap and weak. Do you not see the cycle here?? He cheats, you catch him, he apologizes and stops for a bit... then cheats again. Over and over and over. It’s never going to stop. He doesn’t love you and you deserve better and should want better for yourself. No man is worth putting up with this crap. I’ve been there, I know this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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