# The Santa Myth...



## RandomDude

Just curious about this, was just wondering if my decision not to encourage the whole Santa story is a bad one or if it's good.

Found this article too:
Santa Claus: Should Parents Perpetuate the Santa Claus Myth?
http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/SantaMyth.htm

What do you guys think?
Like, we still enjoy the festivities after all.


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## Pandakiss

I never let my kids believe in Santa....wow that sounds harsh...

But no I didn't pass on the hey kids Santa will be coming down the chimney. I told them not to tell their friends at school Santa isn't real. 

I told them to put their teeth under their pillow and the tooth fairy would bring them a dollar (used to be a quarter when I was a kid). They looked at me like I had a third head. 

Then I asked them if the Easter bunny would visit, they gave me that look "moms lost her marbles...smh". They appear to fine. I had a small very small fear that I took their childhood, but nah they good.


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## EleGirl

Some people see it as a lie, others as a fantasy. Children love fantasies.

My son figured out that Santa was a fantasy when he was in kindergarten. It was right before Thanksgiving that he told me this. So my reply was that now that he’s a mature kid who figured it out… he was not ‘a’ Santa also… That Santa exists as a sentiment in people.. the desire to give. And now that he’s a Santa he gets to give. From that time on, every Christmas we play Santa to a family in need. He thought that was pretty cool.

Like most things in life. It depends on how you look at them.


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## EleGirl

One of my nieces, about 2nd grade at the time, went to her mother one day furious because she just found out that Santa was not real. With her hands on her hips she looks at her mother and asked… “So what does that say about the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy?”

Not sure how a kid gets to that age and still believes in those things.. but oh well.

:rofl:


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## EleGirl

I just thought of something else with my son and Santa. When he was in the first grade I took him and his friend to the Mall. Santa was there and the boys wanted to go up and see him.. there was no line. '

So my son walks up and Santa asks him if he's been a good boy. My son pulls a note from his teacher out of his pocket and shows it to Santa. The note said something about him getting stars for being a good kid.

After we left Santa I asked my son what that was all about since he does not even believe in santa. His reply was that.. hey it never hurts to safe... just incase.

Kids... working all the angles.


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## RandomDude

> I had a small very small fear that I took their childhood, but nah they good.


YES! That's EXACTLY how I feel about it too! Was worried for a second that I spoiled the santa secret before it even became a secret with my daughter lol



> Some people see it as a lie, others as a fantasy. Children love fantasies.
> 
> My son figured out that Santa was a fantasy when he was in kindergarten. It was right before Thanksgiving that he told me this. So my reply was that now that he’s a mature kid who figured it out… he was not ‘a’ Santa also… That Santa exists as a sentiment in people.. the desire to give. And now that he’s a Santa he gets to give. From that time on, every Christmas we play Santa to a family in need. He thought that was pretty cool.
> 
> Like most things in life. It depends on how you look at them.


Yup! This is what made me curious if my decision was good or bad too, she definitely love fantasies. Still, she still enjoys the festivities and we just did our xmas shopping, but Santa, heh, guess you won't see my daughter crying over waiting on the line to see these Santa mascots in the middle of shopping malls. Hehe that's my girl 

Bit of a smartass though for her age


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## Pandakiss

Besides selfishly I went to the store, a lot and I did the research I spent the money, I stood in line, I wrapped the toys. And I'm going to give all the credit to a fat guy in a suit??? Fvck that sh!t


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## RandomDude

Pandakiss said:


> Besides selfishly I went to the store, a lot and I did the research I spent the money, I stood in line, I wrapped the toys. And I'm going to give all the credit to a fat guy in a suit??? Fvck that sh!t


:rofl:
Agreed! :smthumbup:



> One of my nieces, about 2nd grade at the time, went to her mother one day furious because she just found out that Santa was not real. With her hands on her hips she looks at her mother and asked… “So what does that say out the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy?”


LOL that's real cute, must have been an "uh oh" moment for her mum though!


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## turnera

Children NEED fantasies.

They do NOT operate in YOUR world. They BELIEVE that anything can happen. Santa Claus helps them ENJOY the world they live in.

When they are ready to stop believing, they will. It will have NO effect on what they feel about you. Trust me. As a +50 year old. KIDS NEED FANTASIES.

Don't let YOUR issues keep them from enjoying Santa Claus.


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## Bellavista

I never encouraged the whole 'Santa is real' thing with my kids. They know the story of St Nicholas & they know the true meaning around Christmas.
Our youngest stubbornly refused to believe Santa was not real, until she was about 8. But then, this was a kid who lived in her own fantasy land, she had invisible pets and all.
They never had the chance to believe in tooth fairy (I never remembered to put money under their pillow so I would just give them coins when they brought me the teeth) or the Easter Bunny. Stingy mother that I am, we went to the shop after Easter & bought eggs half price. I told them if they did that, they could get twice as many.
The kids were advised however, not to spoil what other kids believed.
They love to tell stories about their childhood so I don't think I have done them permanent damage.


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## RandomDude

@Turnera

My daughter has ALOT of fantasies, but why does it have to involve Santa? And how is it that every parent who doesn't perpetuate the santa myth must have issues? lol



> The kids were advised however, not to spoil what other kids believed.


Oh... too late lol! Might have to tell my daughter that though, not fair for other kids eh?


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## EleGirl

turnera said:


> Children NEED fantasies.
> 
> They do NOT operate in YOUR world. They BELIEVE that anything can happen. Santa Claus helps them ENJOY the world they live in.
> 
> When they are ready to stop believing, they will. It will have NO effect on what they feel about you. Trust me. As a +50 year old. KIDS NEED FANTASIES.
> 
> Don't let YOUR issues keep them from enjoying Santa Claus.


Look at children's book.. there are animals that talk, wear clothing, etc. Cartoons are outrageous... that's what kids are about fantasies. They are developing their imagination and their intelligence. 

I read a study once that said that the ability to fanaticize is directly related to the level of a child’s intelligence.


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## EleGirl

RandomDude said:


> My daughter has ALOT of fantasies, but why does it have to involve Santa? And how is it that every parent who doesn't perpetuate the santa myth must have issues? lol


Don't think it's an issue really. Whatever a parent wants to do.

But why are other fantasies ok but Santa is an undesirable fantasy?


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## RandomDude

These are good points brought forward, this thread is an interesting discussion! Here are some points brought about by that article which I also believe in somewhat:

Parents Have to Lie About Santa Claus
Parents’ Lies About Santa Claus Have to Grow
Santa Claus Lies Discourage Healthy Skepticism
The Reward & Punishment System of Santa Claus is Unjust
The Santa Claus Myth Promotes Materialism
Santa Claus is Too Similar to Jesus and God
The Santa Claus “Tradition” is Relatively Recent
Santa Claus is More About Parents than Children

Link on the OP, what you guys think about this?



> But why are other fantasies ok but Santa is an undesirable fantasy?


That link reflects a lot of my own views, what you think about those criticisms?

I disagree on some parts of the article, it's fun to spend money and enjoy the festivities, not going to let my daughter miss out on any of the fun! Still, I want to raise her right! Heh


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## turnera

My best friend had 8 kids. She taught the kids that whoever 'didn't believe in Santa' didn't get presents from Santa. Her kids went on to believe - and get great presents - from Santa for many years.

In our house, DD22 gets presents from us and presents wrapped in Santa's wrapping paper. 

Perfectly fine with her.

She 'knows.' What, exactly, she knows....I have no idea. I just know she's perfectly happy the way things turned out.


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## turnera

Just go watch Miracle on 34th Street to see what kids need.


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## EleGirl

These are good points brought forward, this thread is an interesting discussion! Here are some points brought about by that article which I also believe in somewhat:



RandomDude said:


> Parents Have to Lie About Santa Claus


When is something a lie and when is it a fantasy? My son had no problems with fantasies.
He made up more of them then the Santa thing ever was. He used to tell me that he had a portal under his bed. When we all went to sleep he’d the portal opened up, he’d get in his space ship and fight galactic wars until it was time to get up for school. Then he’d come back. The portal let him into his room. He absolutely swore that this was real.
Do you think that a little bit of fantasy about Santa trumps the fantasies that were in this kids mind? Hardly. Santa was tame in comparison.
Today at 24, this kid does not lie about anything. He’s as honest as a person can be. All of that wild imagination has served him well… he’s getting his degree in physics and is already thinking about how to get the funding to build that space elevator that used to get his space ship up there when he was a kid. Who knows he might just do it.


RandomDude said:


> Parents’ Lies About Santa Claus Have to Grow


Not really, there is a set story. The ‘growth’ that I can think of was when he asked why Santa was so unfair.. because Santa gives rich kids more than poor kids. So I told him that Santa only has a set amount to spend on each kid. The rest of the presents are from the parents. It’s the parents. So the poor kids only get from Santa sometimes… (Meaning the kids who get from charity)


RandomDude said:


> Santa Claus Lies Discourage Healthy Skepticism


Don’t think so. They develop healthy skepticism on their own pretty quickly.. I doubt many kids believe beyond first grade.
Do books and movies with talking animals, flying carpets, and magic discourage healthy skepticism?


RandomDude said:


> The Reward & Punishment System of Santa Claus is Unjust


Oh good Lord!! So now telling children that they need to be good in unjust? The world is unjust. And it dishes out natural consequences by the bucket load. Better that a kid learn some of this when they are young, at home with parents who protect them then they wait until they get out in real world. 


RandomDude said:


> The Santa Claus Myth Promotes Materialism


Santa does not make gifts the focus of the holiday. Parents might. Santa does not. A good parent puts it into perspective.
This depends on how parents teach it… if parents are materialistic the children will get that lesson. If they are not, the children will not. Is it any less materialistic for a parent to not teach about Santa but then to pile up presents under the tree? It’s the same lesson.
Nothing in the Santa story says that a child has to get more than one gift. And it does not even say that it has to be an expensive gift.

Giving gifts for Christmas predates Santa by centuries. The gift giving comes from the story of the Maggi not from Santa. A lot of you childhood was spent in countries where people never heard of Santa. They gave gifts because that’s what those Christian communities did from the early days of Christianity.


RandomDude said:


> Santa Claus is Too Similar to Jesus and God


“on-believers shouldn’t want their kids prepared in this way to adopt Christianity or theism. “
What? Now Santa is part of a plot to indoctrinate children to believe in Christianity? Really?



RandomDude said:


> The Santa Claus “Tradition” is Relatively Recent


So, is it not permissible to start new traditions? New traditions are started all the time and old ones die all the time.
Actually the St. Nicolas story goes back to the 4th century. He’s the patron saint of children. The transition from Saint to the mythical Santa actually started in the 1800’s in the USA. Here’s in interesting read about it…

St. Nicholas Center ::: Origin of Santa


RandomDude said:


> Santa Claus is More About Parents than Children


What the article has to say about is that parents carry on family traditions because they enjoyed them growing up. Duh… is this supposed to be bad?


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## RandomDude

Very good opposing points to the article, thanks for that, I agree with you on some as well - yes the Santa/Christianity thing brought out in the article I found odd lol as well considering how much my STBX's church went on and on about how Santa = Bad and Jesus = Good etc etc lol



> Do books and movies with talking animals, flying carpets, and magic discourage healthy skepticism?


This is a good point, however I encourage the fantasies in a different way, like, just one example; I don't say "yes, animals do talk!" lol that's just absurd. But my daughter does talk to our cat (before he passed away, the poor old fart), and I encourage it - hell I do it too. I also teach her to listen as he "talks" to her, so in a way, I show her how fantasies are in fact realities. That's normally how I've been raising her with her fantasies.

I just don't really see the point of Santa though, either than an excuse to be festive and have fun giving gifts and celebrating, the whole santa story though... :scratchhead: I don't know, but that's just me lol

This also brings me to this point:


> When is something a lie and when is it a fantasy?


Well, animals do talk, carpets do fly - sort of, they glide, just make sure you're at high attitude with some parachutes, and magic to me is real - just something I don't want to get involved in as it's dangerous! (I'm "pagan" remember hehe  )
So with my daughter I believe in possibilities, and I want her to believe in them too, but Santa... lol

I find this rather interesting, would be interested in other opinions! Keep it coming!


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## EleGirl

RandomDude said:


> Very good opposing points to the article, thanks for that, I agree with you on some as well - yes the Santa/Christianity thing brought out in the article I found odd lol as well considering how much my STBX's church went on and on about how Santa = Bad and Jesus = Good etc etc lol
> 
> This is a good point, however I encourage the fantasies in a different way, like, just one example; I don't say "yes, animals do talk!" lol that's just absurd. But my daughter does talk to our cat (before he passed away, the poor old fart), and I encourage it - hell I do it too. I also teach her to listen as he "talks" to her, so in a way, I show her how fantasies are in fact realities. That's normally how I've been raising her with her fantasies.
> 
> I just don't really see the point of Santa though, either than an excuse to be festive and have fun giving gifts and celebrating, the whole santa story though... :scratchhead: I don't know, but that's just me lol


Did you read the article I linked to above? It talks about why the modern Santa came about.

Santa is only a story. Really some people have made way too much out of it. Certainly the person who wrote the article you link to made too much out of it. I mean they even seem to think that it’s purpose is to indoctrinate children into Christianity. It’s just a story and a bit of fun. 

I guess people make of it what they want to. Santa was never the focus of the holiday when I was growing up and Santa has never been the focus in my household with my children.



RandomDude said:


> This also brings me to this point:
> 
> 
> Well, animals do talk, carpets do fly - sort of, they glide, just make sure you're at high attitude with some parachutes, and magic to me is real - just something I don't want to get involved in as it's dangerous! (I'm "pagan" remember hehe  )
> So with my daughter I believe in possibilities, and I want her to believe in them too, but Santa... lol
> 
> I find this rather interesting, would be interested in other opinions! Keep it coming!


There are ‘sleights’ that fly.. we call them airplanes. Sure reindeer do not pull them but hey carpets do not fly of their own volition, and make right/left hand turns, etc on their own either.

The idea that one fat elf could deliver presents to every child on earth is quite a fantasy, but children really do not realize how large the earth is. To them it’s the small part that they live in.

But the idea that that is someone who gives things, gifts, is not a fantasy at all. Charity is a huge part of our society.

Have you ever read "Yes Virginia, There is a Santa Clause"
Newseum - Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus


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## RandomDude

Hmmm, I see your point. Interesting links, just curious though, you're right and I agree with that charity/gift-giving = real/not fantasies

Hence this is why we enjoy all festivities, there are also traditional myths/stories/festivities from my culture that I also tell my daughter, also from her mum's culture (that she never bothered to study - I'm the cultural enthusiast of the family). But I cut the BS if I can - and as for xmas -> my daughter still expects her gifts, probably won't forgive me if she doesn't get something good either (STBX always reckons I spoil her, like come on!) heh - so she enjoys the whole thing, just doesn't care about the fat dude in a suit due to my influence heh

That's not bad is it?


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## EleGirl

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm, I see your point. Interesting links, just curious though, you're right and I agree with that charity/gift-giving = real/not fantasies
> 
> Hence this is why we enjoy all festivities, there are also traditional myths/stories/festivities from my culture that I also tell my daughter, also from her mum's culture (that she never bothered to study - I'm the cultural enthusiast of the family). But I cut the BS if I can - and as for xmas -> my daughter still expects her gifts, probably won't forgive me if she doesn't get something good either (STBX always reckons I spoil her, like come on!) heh - so she enjoys the whole thing, just doesn't care about the fat dude in a suit due to my influence heh
> 
> That's not bad is it?


Of course it's not bad. Santa is not a requirement for anything. 

It's just a fun story, that's all. She can even enjoy the story knowing full well that it's not real.


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## RandomDude

Heh well she has a lot of other worlds to explore not just Santa's I guess 

Though I think I should have at least told her not to spoil it for other kids, as Bellavista mentioned... cute though. Bubble buster, heh STBX is right in that -> I'm a naughty influence! Funny too, she hardly ever acts up with me, but with mum from time to time heh - still a good kid. Our pride and joy.


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## Holland

I have never perpetuated the Santa myth, I choose not to lie to my kids. We don't do Santa, fairies, Easter Bunny, tooth fairy etc.

My kids have brilliant imaginations, they are having exceptional childhoods.


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## Miss Taken

I suspect this will be my son's last year of believing in Santa. I never told him Santa was real, but I did perpetuate the myth as Christmas presents "magically appear" under the tree in the middle of the night on Christmas Eve - quite a few of them are from his letter to Santa. I think it's good fun but don't think kids are damaged by not believing. I told the truth about the Easter Bunny last year when he asked and he still enjoyed an Easter egg hunt for the free chocolate.

In hindsight, although I love/d seeing the surprise on his face every Christmas morning when discovering all of the presents, I think it would be easier and less expensive if he knew the presents all came from me and dad. His dad has always gone overboard on the expensive gifts and I'm more frugal. It's not that I don't want to get him cool stuff (I still do), I just don't think we need to get him EVERY cool and expensive thing on his Christmas list to Santa.

I'm not sure how I'll handle it with my youngest. There's a big age gap so by the time he's finally old enough to know that you get presents on Christmas, my oldest will know that Santa is make-believe.


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## that_girl

I still believe in Santa so I don't know what y'all are talking about.

:scratchhead:

:rofl: The whole "I don't lie to my kids" is silly to me. I found out about Santa when I was about 8. I wasn't angry that my mom "lied". I just knew it was fun. I still believe though.


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## joe kidd

I'll let my boy believe until he figures it out. What does it hurt? Hell there are grown people who still believe the Government has our best interests in mind. So what is a little Santa going to hurt?


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## TrustInUs

OP, I don't think any decision you make about Santa as a parent will be a "bad" one, it's all in how you handle it, IMO.

When I first had my daughter and started going back to church, I was adamant that I wouldn't do the whole Santa thing.

Funny thing, she came home talking about Santa when she was old enough to understand, and it melted my heart. It brought back all the fond memories I had growing up, and I don't remember being scarred for life when I found out he wasn't real,Nor do I remember holding it against my parents. So I let her believe on her own. 

Now I'm married with 3 kids all together, and I'm sort of sad that they all have figured it out, well except the youngest (she's the one on the above paragraph), she found out last year but I think she still wants to pretend to "believe" this year.


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## F-102

My daughter (STB 13) knew very young that there was no Santa, and to be honest, we never got into that with her. In a way, i feel that she was "robbed' of a childhood right, but she never seemed to make a big deal of it, either. I asked her recently if she felt sad when she found out that it was a myth, and she said no, that we still get gifts!

She did research things, and she was telling US about the origins of Santa, of the REAL Saint Nicholas and how Santa Claus came from that, and the Krampus, too!


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## Mavash.

While I certainly fantasize about not having to do all this crap....Santa, tooth fairy, easter bunny, and now that stupid elf on a shelf I won't take the fun out of my kids childhood no matter how much it sucks for me. LOL

I believed in all of this until I was in 4th grade. I am intelligent, went on to have a successful CPA career and I never once looked at my parents as lying. I knew it was all in fun.


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## Maricha75

Ok, so let them believe Santa is real. I can accept that... as long as YOU are the one who is going to purchase the big ticket items they are sure to ask for, which *I* cannot afford. Deal? Yea, I thought not. See, kids think "If I ask Santa for this, I will get it." And then, Christmas morning, they are disappointed because the one thing they wanted most of all, they can't get because "Santa" couldn't afford it. No thanks. I'll tell my kids the truth about Santa and they still play along with their friends with no problems.


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## costa200

I'm an atheist. That whole article was retarded. There is nothing better to encourage skepticism than to make a child believe in some idiotic notion and then have the kid realize that although he/she was perfectly convinced of the existence of this magical creature because people who are trusted continuously talk about it like it is real, it actually doesn't exist.

Teaches kids to search for external confirmation and independent proof. 

I hate atheists that see a threat to reason in everything. They are like taliban atheists. Feel threatened by whatever that relates remotely to religion. Christmas is fun and important in society for all sorts of reasons. Even when voided of its religious background.


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## Acorn

My oldest is in the third grade and asked me whether the tooth fairy existed or not. He was with his mom and I guess she slipped on the phone or something and now he was in tears.

I really didn't know what to say, because I didn't want to outright lie but like Turnera was saying, I think the tears were because he wanted to keep his fantasy and dream and I didn't want to take it away from him.

I told him that I could be the tooth fairy, or it could be a magic fairy that comes to visit at night - but it really didn't matter, did it? I told him that instead of him and his little brother fearing the pain of a tooth coming out, now they could look forward to a little fun surprise in the morning when they woke up.

He pressed, and I said, the tooth fairy exists if you want her to. When you don't believe any more, I think she will disappear from your life.

He spent a long time thinking, his tears had dried up, and he then said, "Dad, I want you to know I still believe in Santa."

Smart kid, lol.


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## ScaredandUnsure

My kids learned this year that Santa and all those others aren't real. My oldest son shared it with them. One of my twins is having a hard time not believing in it and I told him to just believe in whatever he wants to believe in. My 7 yr old scoffed and laughed and said "I knew it!" so she's been a bit cynical of Santa for a while. "Mom, it really never made any sense to me. How could Santa deliver to EVERYONE in one whole night?"


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## that_girl

joe kidd said:


> I'll let my boy believe until he figures it out. What does it hurt? Hell there are grown people who still believe the Government has our best interests in mind. So what is a little Santa going to hurt?


Winner. :rofl:


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