# Wife still seeing me after Divorced Filed - My story



## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

Hello Everyone, 

I am new here and stumbled upon this forum as I am going through a tough situation. I've been reading a few of the latest threads and I find this site to be quite helpful based on the variety of close-knit responses people receive and lean on. This is what I am hoping to get to be honest

To preface, I will be writing things below that some or most of you might find glaring and despicable to some. I am open to constructive input even if it has a judgmental undertone. My apologies if this is long.

Not sure where to start, but my wife of 6years (known her for 10years) left me 2 months ago and moved onto a new apartment her parents bought for her (which the plan was us to move into). She handed me divorce papers which was the typical blow to my gut and I did not want to sign them. I got pretty pathetic as I usually resort to breaking down emotionally, depressive tantrums-suicidal thoughts/threats/attempts, and crying. I know it sounds bad, but I have been battling Borderline Personality Disorder for quite some time and have been taking a variety of medications for it - it's been my mission through weekly therapy (intermittent during our relationship, but now 2-3 times week) to ultimately remove this death-sentence disorder, as I feel I get hit with splitting emotions and outbursts more than the average normal person, (as was the norm in our relationship for many years). I didn't ask for this disorder, but I am quite ashamed admitting that I have it as it quite frankly takes control over me with relationships.

Our relationship had great times, bad times, and tumultuous abusive times (mostly verbally, we had a few moments of physical shoving and slapping in the beginning because of our fiery personas, and I was super controlling to where I didn't want her going out for fear of losing her which is the operative base with Borderline people). It was a co-dependent relationship but we were very much in love even though I had a sick way of showing it, to where she acquiesced in the beginning due to her love for me, but warped into a firmer person with a retaliatory stance towards the latter part of our relationship. She's a sweet hearted person who always sees the good in people - when we got together she inspired me, domesticated me, and pushed me to succeed career wise. She was loyal and had my back always, but I always had this image of her finding someone else to replace me via my delusional fears.

The first time she left me was quite extreme, I had a suicidal moment/action to where she found me and starting screaming and slapping me while I was under the influence of an overdose, I slapped her back in a moment of rage and the bystanders called the cops to where I was arrested with an order issued. We were separated for 3 weeks with no contact and I tried to get her back at all costs. I ended up writing her a 50 page novella (sort of a metaphorical memoir of our relationship mixed with fantasy and time travel, printed in parchment paper with ribbons. My dad left it in her apartment since she still walked her/our dog while she was at work. She ended up loving it, we got back together after 3 weeks and I re-proposed to her since I never bought her a real ring.. In a super romantic day. 

Flash forward 2 years with the splitting ups/downs, we were becoming more and more distant due to my paranoia of her working at a new job at a Hotel and she was meeting new people. I felt she was distancing herself and paying more attention to her career and potential good looking men in the industry she might want to pursue/or they were pursuing her. This is disgusting: but I constantly checked her phone, text messages, her facebook, and even tracked her - it was an addiction that I know was violating but I couldn't stop it. If you want to judge I understand.

She still loved me and couldn't let go. Her parents bought an apartment a few months back which I had the fear it was for her (as a sanctuary and ploy) to remove her from this setting and have her leave me. She furnished the apartment and constantly dealing with contractors to which I helped removed some awful ones. My fear the last few months was that she was moving - but she kept telling me that she doesn't know and that is her parents apartment (they are from Russia) which they will rent out/flip.

Her mother finally came 3 months back, stayed with us and saw the abusive trip I was in/panicking all the time and harassing her. She removed her from the apartment during our last outburst and my wife said she wasn't coming back and to please sign the Undisputed divorce papers she gave me to which I said I can never let go. She removed her stuff from my apartment a day while I was scheduled to work, but didn't go feeling she would come to get her stuff - to which she did as I caught the tail end of it.

I had weeks of crying, meeting up with her, begging her to come back and telling her I am going to therapy and that I will change... she was suffering to as we met up a few times and she cried but didn't want to see me due to external influence from her friend that hates me and her mother. I tried to end my life, (pathetic yes, but the pain and thoughts I go thru are like a typhoon instead of a puddle for most normal people due to my condition) it didn't work.

I ended up signing the papers due to advice from my family and therapists. It killed me inside and it killed her while we were doing it. But I remained in strong spirits and made it comfortable for her during the process we went to get it signed. I didn't cry, but I made her laugh during the time to make it memorable. We ended up hanging out that nite and we had a great time as we were together still. Holding hands, I kissed her on the neck, cheek, peck on the mouth to where she showed semi-resistance but accepted. She said she was so happy she can speak to me and have fluid open hearted conversations as I was listening to her and offering advice with her current job situation. She resorted a lot to hanging out super late everynite and drinking a lot - and gained plenty of weight. She has a drinking problem. 

Not sure if you believe in signs, but I prayed hard for some. She still has the keys to my apartment, and I always thought she would come home one day to hug me and say she misses me. One night at 2:30AM I heard someone opening my door with keys at my apartment, I wasn't dreaming for sure. I was scared and anxious/happy at the same time thinking she was coming home - it ended up being my drunk neighbor from upstairs - such a mind*** as I thought it can only be my wife - this never ever happened - talk about law of attraction.

The following week she texted me saying that the Notary guy put the wrong date on the divorce papers and she is sorry we have to do it again. I didn't want to until after we met up for our Friday date/meet (whatever you want to call it) she said she wants to get over it and sign otherwise she wouldn't meet me. We ended up meeting and I broke down the entire car ride, she broke down too until we signed the papers - I ended up breaking down even worse after I signed and we spoke and she apologized and cried also - (I asked her why she is doing this to me and if she would consider stalling the submittal of the papers) she said she would but not sure how confident I am about this. We ended up hanging out again drank a few drinks. got drunk and I walked her to a taxi - she held my hand.. I gave her kisses and she was accepting and she called me sweety - called me when she got home but I was already crashed "she said everything ok, id understand if you don't want to talk. 

I texted her the next morning saying "sorry I fell asleep and crashed, I miss you I am broken its so hard for you not to be here with me" she replied "listen lets not start the day like this, enjoy your day and lets stick to the plan" (which I am thinking means give it a try again and see how I progress but I was not sure and didn't want to ask her.

We ended up going out Friday to a Waltz/FoxTrot even in Lincoln Center had drinks and she even wore her engagement ring bc I asked her to if she felt comfortable. She was happy, we danced, ate drank to the point where we were both a bit drunk 
( I also asked her after a few drinks and having a good time what she meant about "lets stick to the plan" and she responded that we agreed we would see each other and see the progress) I still don't know what this means??

AfterI asked her if I can watch a movie w her at her apt to sober down.. she said ok. We ended up watching a Disney movie and I fell asleep caressing her foot. She fell asleep as well and attempted to grab my hand but pulled away after 2 seconds of holding it. She ended up going to sleep in her room and I crashed at her couch. 

4 days later I asked if we can hang out and we did on 4th of July - we were only supposed to go to the park with our dog and have a picnic but it was about to rain to where we decided to eat out. We drank, ate, saw fireworks on her roof.. same deal, hugging her (she was accepting) she held me we held hands.. she told me to stay over again since I was drunk. I fell asleep on the couch again and she brought a blanket - she woke up at 5AM to go to work to where I woke up again to leave and she said don't worry just stay and take the keys.. get some more sleep. I took the keys but felt anxious that she was uncomfortable that I had it knowing my personality and how I can harass /stalk etc... based on my previous actions to where I stopped. 

Everytime I see her its exciting but I leave feeling an emptiness if she is doing this out of Pity/Friends ... or real love. I am thinking 50-50 but who knows.. she knows I am trying hard to change and want her back. Why would she see me,, Pity, to let me down easy? Or she sincerely is confused?

The same day I told her I want to drop keys after work, and she agreed. I called her no answer at the time we agreed, so I texted her listen I am at your bar across the street. She finally came and I was drinking and asked her if she wanted to have a drink to where she declined (she looked ready to go out).. she was quiet and I sensed an awk vibe radiating from her. I asked if she was fine and she said "No, are you going to be hanging here now and drinking next to my apartment" I said no, sorry, I was just waiting to drop your keys but u didn't pick up so I decided to hit the bar.. I will leave if you feel uncomfortable. She then left feeling bad, and I said hold up.. I crossed the street and she was tearing . I told her the last thing I want to do is make you feel uncomfortable, I am sorry and should have thought. She said the following:

"This is not the idea I had, I am not ready to see you this frequently. What do you want me to tell you move in already?? What happened to a step at a time?? We are separated and getting a divorce.. now I feel bad telling you this stuff - I don't want to give you misleading messages" (but she is in reality)

I told her listen I felt bad sleeping over twice as it wasn't my attention but you were nice and hospitable and thank you. I wasn't planning on going out with you today just drop the keys. She said "now I have to meet up with Elvira because I have plans, and now it makes me sad/awk that you had other intentions (I denied it, but deep down I wanted to hang out with her again" ... I told her listen enjoy your time, I don't want to interfere with your plans, have a good time sweety and enjoy your outing - be safe. She then said "you are being fake (because I never liked her going out)" and I told her I am not being fake, enjoy and bye. She gave me a weird pity hug and that was it. 

We had plans for her to come over my parents because she hadn't seen them in 2 months and she still pays for our family cell phone plan to where my family (mom, dad, sister, me and neice) pay her. she agreed I pick her up and take her.. I wanted this day to be with her and my family only - excluding myself to which I told her plenty of times. (I wanted my sister who was close to her to pick up vibes or maybe have a heart2heart conversation) 

So we arrive I parked the car, and she proceed to hold my hand (what is this?? is she playing games??) Shes an innocent loving person and not the type to < edited > with emotions like that. We decided to catch breakfast and bring it to my parents and we had a good time for 30mins eating bagels, she ate of my plate, wanted me to sit with her. She then left with my sister to run errands and I left.

She texts me later a few hours later after she comes back to my parents and says "where are you?" I said "park playing ball" she said "ok we are home, take your time your sister and I are cooking" .. At first instinct this seemed to be an invitation to include me, or, take your time to pick her up as I agreed with her earlier.. I told her "enjoy your dinner with my family, let me know when you are ready and Ill pick you up.... To where she responded "you should come, we cooked dinner and you should see the new dog your sister bought your niece" I was glad and said yes even though I shouldn't have (I don't want to overdo it especially since she acts intermittent/fickle with her conflicted messages.) She kept texting me dinner is ready I will wait for you. We had a great time with the family and it was as if nothing ever happened as if we were normally together. 

I drove her back home, I gave her my hand and she held it the entire time with out rooftop down she wanted.. I asked her if we can catch dinner/movie this week, she said "sure we can do that, I am off Saturday so Friday will work" I walked her home she gave me a kiss and said thanks for bringing me to see your family -- I really missed them. 

My mom and sister went over the next day since she invited them for a dinner she was cooking - and they had a great time. She said she will continue to take over the cell phone bill and not to worry - we will just pay her monthly. I asked my sister and mom if she picked up on anything and they keep saying be patient - she didn't say anything but just keep going with the flow.

So this is where I am at now.. I don't call her nor text her only once a week - mostly on day we agreed to hang out. She has been seeing me weekly since, but I am fearing this is a means of letting me down easy. I want to ask her if she is seeing someone "but she always says she is hurt and wont see anyone for at least a year and I will be the first to know" but I don't know if she is BS'ing me or what.

So I am waiting for this Friday to take her out to a movie under the stars, she doesn't know where I am taking her.

Is she playing games with me? 
Doing this out of pity? 
I am just not sure where I stand and I want to ask her if she submitted the Divorce papers, are we really seeing each other?
Is she seeing someone else? 
Do I keep going with the flow?

It's been 2months since my separation. Sorry this was long but I didn't want to miss some important pieces. Would appreciate your input .


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

I am sorry that your intense fear of abandonment drove you to do things that brought about the very thing that you fear, which is losing your marriage.

My wife is afflicted with severe BPD. She has an intense fear of abandonment and was extremely jealous and insecure with me. She made my life merely miserable for 15 years and then turned it up to full-blown hell last year by having an affair.

It seems like your wife still cares about you but you should give her the space that she needs. And regardless of whether you get back with her or not, seek treatment at least for your own sake, so you can become a normal person.

If you're interested, there are a couple of BPD threads in this forum:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...n/387050-can-we-have-official-bpd-thread.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/387170-official-bpd-thread.html


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

Thank you for your time in responding.

You hit the nail.. I was quite self-destructive and I do relate to your situation with your Wife as I know how I can be with BPD. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy in destroying what I had, for fear of abandonment. I am going thru therapy and trut new medication just sucks that I am fighting myself to eliminate this disorder.

I just don't know what is going on now and if we are on the samepage in working things out. Not sure if its for friendliness, pity, or she wants to really try. So many mixed signals.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What are you doing to make more friends and get out with other people?


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

I am not really going out. Just staying active, working, and home drowning in my thoughts waiting for the next time i see her and analyzing every word, action said during our prior meet ups

I am just in a pretty horrid, depressive state of mind. Can't seem to shake it or force myself to socialize


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

abitrandom82 said:


> I am not really going out. Just staying active, working, and home drowning in my thoughts waiting for the next time i see her and analyzing every word, action said during our prior meet ups
> 
> I am just in a pretty horrid, depressive state of mind. Can't seem to shake it or force myself to socialize


You need to start doing things for yourself.

Are you working out? If not join a gym and start. It will help your frame of mind.

Start doing thing socially. You need to turn the focus off her and onto yourself and your own life. 

If you are unsure of how to meet people look at the site We are what we do | Meetup . Find things you like to do and get out there.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What you are doing right now, just focusing on her, only proves to her that she was right to leave you. If you want to make the changes that are needed, getting a life your own is part of that.


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

I hear you. I just joined a gym and am going with my boy that lives in my building recently - trying to start a new regimen, I've been playing more basketball and picked up learning a new language at home. 

Do you think I should stop my journey based on our meet ups in trying my best to get her back? I can't really give up at the moment, it's really not an option i am considering.

What do you think of what I wrote and what the intentions might be?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

abitrandom82 said:


> I hear you. I just joined a gym and am going with my boy that lives in my building recently - trying to start a new regimen, I've been playing more basketball and picked up learning a new language at home.
> 
> Do you think I should stop my journey based on our meet ups in trying my best to get her back? I can't really give up at the moment, it's really not an option i am considering.
> 
> What do you think of what I wrote and what the intentions might be?


I think that you should give up trying to get her back. She seems to truly care about you and be concerned about you. But I think she feels that she cannot ever live with you again and trust you at that level.

I'm very sorry to say the above, but that's want it sounds like to me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

The truth is until you get healthy, and I mean really healthy meaning no longer abusive. Having a clear sense when you are in a mania and separating yourself from her at those moments. Until you do that you will never be able to have a successful relationship with anyone. If you want her back this is entirely where your focus should be because if not even if you get her back you will destroy it again. If it doesn't work out at least you will have learned enough to possibly have a more successful next relationship. Work on that as it is the root of the problem.


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

sokillme said:


> The truth is until you get healthy, and I mean really healthy meaning no longer abusive. Having a clear sense when you are in a mania and separating yourself from her at those moments. Until you do that you will never be able to have a successful relationship with anyone. If you want her back this is entirely where your focus should be because if not even if you get her back you will destroy it again. If it doesn't work out at least you will have learned enough to possibly have a more successful next relationship. Work on that as it is the root of the problem.


I completely agree with you. That is my main focus and my goal to control my outbursts and moments of instability. I'll be frank, I know I will never be cured but I was to attain a 1-3 instead of being an 8-10 on the borderline scale as my therapist states.

I have gotten better before but then I regressed. I just need to learn to maintain it.

I spoke with her today and she said she will go out with me this Friday again. Still unsure if she is testing me and if this is part of the plan to see my progress or letting me down softly.. this was also very hard for her as well - still don't get why she agrees to see me.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I think you stop worrying about why she wants to see you, and be glad she still does. 

You need to continue to work on yourself, and get better.


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

Lostme said:


> I think you stop worrying about why she wants to see you, and be glad she still does.
> 
> You need to continue to work on yourself, and get better.


You are absolutely right .. it's not so simple to shut off my thoughts at this time.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

If you continue this laserlike focus on her every twitch, there is ZERO chance of reconciliation.

ZERO

You will push her into the arms of another.


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

ReturntoZero said:


> If you continue this laserlike focus on her every twitch, there is ZERO chance of reconciliation.
> 
> ZERO
> 
> You will push her into the arms of another.


It is laserlike focus, sadly. However I don't show this to her as I communicate with her every so often.

Can you explain why recurring thoughts and focus is that bad for reconciliation if she doesn't know ? Or is this more aligned with law of attraction and just putting bad energy into the situation?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Your primary responsibility is to yourself. If she wants to be a part of your life, that's fine, but don't create or think of scenarios that bring you together. 

If your therapist hasn't brought it up yet, ask for simple CBT techniques to use with others.


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

john117 said:


> Your primary responsibility is to yourself. If she wants to be a part of your life, that's fine, but don't create or think of scenarios that bring you together.
> 
> If your therapist hasn't brought it up yet, ask for simple CBT techniques to use with others.


I agree.

So you suggest giving up on my marriage and not trying?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

abitrandom82 said:


> I agree.
> 
> So you suggest giving up on my marriage and not trying?


What does "trying" mean to you?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Love means never trying to control each other!

If your relationship is ever to survive, you both need to agree to be bound over by an independent and most impartial marriage counselor!

Otherwise, I just can't really see any sustainable measure of success coming from what you seem to be habitually doing to each other!*


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

abitrandom82 said:


> It is laserlike focus, sadly. However I don't show this to her as I communicate with her every so often.
> 
> Can you explain why recurring thoughts and focus is that bad for reconciliation if she doesn't know ? Or is this more aligned with law of attraction and just putting bad energy into the situation?


If all you do is focus on her, you won't be able to build YOUR life.

Building YOUR life is what makes a man attractive.

From what you've written she likely hates herself.

What would someone like that think of someone whose very existence has the primary goal of putting a smile on her face?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

abitrandom82 said:


> I hear you. I just joined a gym and am going with my boy that lives in my building recently - trying to start a new regimen, I've been playing more basketball and picked up learning a new language at home.
> 
> Do you think I should stop my journey based on our meet ups in trying my best to get her back? I can't really give up at the moment, it's really not an option i am considering.
> 
> What do you think of what I wrote and what the intentions might be?


Have you ever tried to push a rope?


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

How sure are you about your BPD. What is your IC qualifications. Please read @Uptowns posts on the subject. 

Could you share more information on your childhood, and previous relationships. What you have written here does not sound convincing about BPD.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Also, it sounds like you base your relaionships on Limerence not love.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Really need more background information about why you are BPD. I believe you do need to let your wife go. Accept you drove her out of the marriage and she did the honorable thing and divorced you instead of engaging in adultery. There are good reasons why she fell in love with you and married, unless she was a mail order bride. Focus on these to broaden them and focus on why the reasons why you drove her away and resolved them. 

Please address your IC qualifications and what tests you took to cause the IC to say you have "BPD". Again this is your journey, not her's do not share with her or date her.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

abitrandom82 said:


> I am quite ashamed admitting that I have [BPD] as it quite frankly takes control over me with relationships.


Random, welcome to the TAM forum. Please do not feel ashamed you "have BPD." As you already know, BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Rather, it is a set of behaviors (ego defenses, actually) that every person exhibits to some degree. Indeed, during early childhood we all behave 24/7 like full-blown BPDers and then, when the hormones surge during our early teens, many of us exhibit full-blown BPD behavior all over again for several years. This is so common that psychologists usually refuse to diagnose full-blown BPD until a person is at least 18.

Moreover, even during adulthood, a large share of healthy adults exhibit strong BPD symptoms on a monthly basis (during PMS) -- and for periods of time lasting a year or two due to pregnancy, postpartum, or perimenopause (or, LOL, due to any other life event starting with the letter "P"). Healthy adults are not only _on the BPD spectrum_ but they will occasionally _move up and down that spectrum_ at various points in their lifetimes. So we all are BPDers to some extent.

Granted, this simple reality is not apparent in the dichotomous approach to diagnosing BPD that has been used since 1980. That flawed methodology -- where a person is declared to "have" or "not have" BPD -- is as absurd as declaring everyone over 300 pounds to be "fat" and everyone under that weight to be "skinny." This is why the APA is currently replacing it with a graduated approach (i.e., normal, mild, moderate, strong, and severe) in the diagnostic manual.



> I know I will never be cured but I was to attain a 1-3 instead of being an 8-10 on the borderline scale as my therapist states.


You cannot be cured because scientists have not identified any disease or disorder that needs curing. Nobody knows for certain what it is that causes a child's development of emotional skills to stop at about age four. As you likely know, the current theory is that -- due to heredity and/or early childhood trauma/abuse -- the child feels so threatened that he keeps a death grip on the primitive ego defenses that young children rely on for survival. 

These primitive defenses include denial, projection, black-white thinking, magical thinking, and temper tantrums. The child is so fully reliant on those defenses to survive childhood that he is afraid to let go long enough to replace them with the more mature ego defenses that other children acquire. 

The result is that the child enters adulthood without knowing how to do self soothing; how to regulate his own emotions; how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts"; how to trust others; how to be "mindful" (i.e., to remain in the room instead of escaping in daydreams to the past or future); how to perceive "object constancy" (i.e., to see that your W's personality is essentially unchanged day to day, even when you are angry with her); and how to avoid black-white thinking by learning to tolerate strong mixed feelings, uncertainties, ambiguities, and the other gray areas of interpersonal relationships.



> It was a self-fulfilling prophecy in destroying what I had, for fear of abandonment.


No, if you are a BPDer, your situation is far more difficult than having a strong abandonment fear. By itself, that fear does not fully explain the destruction of your relationships. You also have a second great fear: that of engulfment. Although you crave intimacy like nearly every other adult, you cannot tolerate it for very long because your sense of self identity is not yet strong enough. Importantly, having to deal with BOTH of these strong fears is far more difficult than dealing with just one of them.

The problem is that the two fears lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means you always find yourself in a lose-lose situation in your close relationships. It is impossible to back away from one fear without drawing closer to the other. Hence, when you are starting to feel engulfed and suffocated during an intimate weekend with your partner, you can get relief by backing away from her (or by pushing her away). This allows you to get some breathing space. 

Yet, in doing so, you will start triggering your great fear of abandonment because she is moving away from you. Of course, the only immediate solution for that is to move back closer to your partner, which will trigger your engulfment fear all over again. This is why untreated BPDers find themselves stuck in futile cycle of push-away and pull-back.

I wish I could tell you that there is a midpoints solution (between "too far away" and "too close") where you could safely stand and avoid triggering your two fears. Yet, after spending 15 years trying to find that Goldilocks position, I found that it simply doesn't exist -- until you've worked hard in therapy (e.g., CBT or DBT) to acquire the missing skills mentioned above.



> That is my main focus and my goal to control my outbursts and moments of instability.


Random, you likely will do very well in acquiring the missing emotional skills. I've had the good fortune to communicate with nearly a hundred self aware BPDers on several forums. They are so rare, however, that I've never knowingly met one in my private life even though I do know many BPDers. 

I've never seen any statistics on it but I would guess that the share of high functioning BPDers who are self aware is roughly 5%. It is higher among low functioning BPDers because they are in such severe pain that they are forced to be more introspective. The vast majority of full-blown BPDers, however, are high functioning folks who interact very well with anyone who doesn't become a close friend. A HF BPDer nearly always is blind to his own BPD symptoms because the thought distortions and intense feelings seem perfectly natural to him and are in harmony with the needs of his ego.

I mention all this to explain why, if you are a BPDer, your chances of doing well in therapy are _dramatically improved_ by your remarkable level of self awareness. The main reason that BPD treatment has such a dismal success rate among HF BPDers is that it is rare for any of them to have sufficient self awareness to take advantage of the treatment programs. Nearly all of them (i.e., the 95%) refuse to attend therapy. A HF BPDer is filled with so much self loathing that the last thing he wants to find is one more item to add to the long list of things he hates about himself. 

Further, even when these HF BPDers attend therapy at the insistence of a spouse, they typically will play mind games with the therapists (as my exW did with six different psychologists in weekly visits for 15 years). It therefore is very encouraging that you have already overcome what is the biggest impediment to a successful treatment.

You are not out of the woods yet, however. In addition to the self awareness, you also must have the ego strength required to be willing to work hard in therapy for several years (at least) of weekly sessions. If you have strong BPD traits, it is important to find a therapist who is very experienced in treating it (with programs such as DBT and CBT that teach you emotional skills). If you want to read an insightful book on the subject, the one that self-aware BPDers seem to find most helpful is _Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified: An Essential Guide for Understanding and Living with BPD_. 



> I am open to constructive input even if it has a judgmental undertone.


Random, I believe you will find TAM members less judgmental than you expect. One reason is that many of our members -- e.g., @*Soulpotato* and @*EllaSuaveterre* -- have been treated for BPD and are glad to help others here by sharing their experiences. 

Another reason is that the ex-partners of BPDers -- while often having a negative attitude toward the Unaware BPDers who drove them nearly crazy -- are usually delighted to meet Self-Aware BPDers. After living for years with a BPDer who never could see the elephant in the room, it is a great delight to converse with one of those rare BPDers who not only sees the elephant but also has stopped feeding it. Take care, Random.


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

Uptown said:


> abitrandom82 said:
> 
> 
> > I am quite ashamed admitting that I have [BPD] as it quite frankly takes control over me with relationships.
> ...


Thank you for your insightful and thoughtful response. I understand even though i am self aware of this destructive disorder, it is only the first step. I am optimistic with my 2-3 times a week therapy sessions that I will try my best to improve on my fixations and irrational outbursts.

Again I know this will be a part of me for
The rest of my life; but I will not let it define me. My goal is to reach a 1-3 on the scale rather than a 7-9.

Thank you for reaching out in thorough fashion. You are quite adept and intellectualized on this matter - I am assuming you have a psych background or have done extensive research on this based on your relationship.

Thank you for your support


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> I am optimistic with my 2-3 times a week therapy sessions that I will try my best to improve on my fixations and irrational outbursts.


Random, you have good reason to be optimistic as long as you continue to work hard on acquiring the missing emotional skills. If you exhibit strong BPD traits, your _"fixations and irrational outbursts"_ are defenses against the many thought distortions you experience. These distortions' don't occur because you're weird or despicable. Rather, they occur because you're human.

The human condition is that, whenever we experience intense feelings, we all get a strongly distorted view of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This is why we cannot trust our own judgment about our peoples' intentions while we are very angry, very scared, or deeply infatuated. By the time we enter high school, nearly all of us have experienced these thought distortions so many hundreds of times that we already know -- at that young age -- that our good judgment flies out the window whenever our feelings are very intense. 

This is why nearly all of us try hard to keep our mouths shut (and our fingers off the keys) whenever we are angry. We try to wait until we have time to cool down before saying anything. For the same reason, we try to wait two years for the infatuation to subside before buying the ring.

Well, BPDers are like this too. Only the thought distortions occur far more frequently because BPDers lack the emotional skills needed to regulate their own emotions. The result is that you experience intense feelings more often and it is those intense feelings that cause the thought distortions -- as they do for every other adult on the planet. Hence, BPDers are like everybody else in this regard -- only more so.



> I have been battling Borderline Personality Disorder for quite some time and have been taking a variety of medications for it.


No, the existing medications will not make a dent in BPD. As I noted above, you will continue to have problems until you acquire the emotional skills that you had no opportunity to learn in childhood. You cannot acquire those skills by swallowing a pill. 

Yet, if you exhibit strong BPD symptoms, you almost certainly are also suffering from one or two co-occurring _"clinical disorders"_ (i.e., non-personality disorders) such as anxiety, depression, ADHD, bipolar, OCD, or panic disorder. A recent large-scale American study found that 75% of folks having full-blown BPD also suffer from a mood disorder -- and 74% also suffer from an anxiety disorder. Unlike personality disorders, these clinical disorders usually can be treated quite successfully with medication. 

Hence, the medications you are taking almost certainly are targeted to one or two of these co-occurring clinical disorders. Although these meds won't solve your BPD problem, they nonetheless will make it much easier for you to acquire the missing emotional skills because they will reduce the anxiety or depression you may be experiencing. That makes it easier for you to stay focused on your recovery and to be optimistic about achieving your goals.



> My goal is to reach a 1-3 on the scale rather than a 7-9.


Good goal. I'm glad to hear that you're already working hard to achieve it.



> Again I know this will be a part of me for the rest of my life.


As I said, BPD behavioral traits are a part of all of us throughout our lifetimes. BPD traits are not the _"death sentence"_ you call them. On the contrary, they are ego defenses that are essential to our survival in childhood -- and which remain helpful throughout adulthood. But, like having too much body height or weight, a person can have too much of a good thing. Hence, when our BPD traits become so strong and persistent that they seriously undermine our close personal relationships, a psychologist will start calling this behavioral pattern a "disorder."



> I am assuming you have a psych background or have done extensive research on this based on your relationship.


No, I have no formal training in psychology. I am simply sharing my experiences from reading about BPD -- and from taking my BPDer exW to weekly visits with six psychologists and three MCs over a 15 year period. Similarly, when I write about bipolar warning signs, I am sharing my experiences with my bipolar-1 foster son. Because he had to be hospitalized a dozen times over a 35 year period for mania/psychosis, I interacted with dozens of different psychologists treating him.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

abitrandom82 said:


> I agree.
> 
> So you suggest giving up on my marriage and not trying?


Your primary responsibility is to yourself. As someone married to a diagnosed BPD I'm all too familiar with it. 

You may be pursuing a mirage for now. You can put 100% effort towards the relationship and make marginal improvement to the relationship, if any; you can put the effort towards your own health and the return will be much better. 

It's more a question of what to do first. My bet would be to work on you first.


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## abitrandom82 (Jul 11, 2017)

Uptown said:


> > I am optimistic with my 2-3 times a week therapy sessions that I will try my best to improve on my fixations and irrational outbursts.
> 
> 
> Random, you have good reason to be optimistic as long as you continue to work hard on acquiring the missing emotional skills. If you exhibit strong BPD traits, your _"fixations and irrational outbursts"_ are defenses against the many thought distortions you experience. These distortions' don't occur because you're weird or despicable. Rather, they occur because you're human.
> ...


Uptown, 

Thanks again. You are correct that I do have other psychological co-occurring disorders. Intense Depression and nostalgia, and anxiety. I was diagnosed with depersonalization and derealization 14 years ago, I had it for 4 months 24/7 - most profound experience I've ever gone thru. As an true period of enlightenment and rebirth. Since then, i was left with chronic anxiety for years, but I did find a happy median (as I believe you said a goldilock - if I read you correctly)

I am sorry about your Foster son and wish him the best treatment.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

abitrandom82 said:


> I did find a happy median (as I believe you said a goldilock - if I read you correctly).


Yes, a Goldilocks position. It is a reference to a fairy tale named "Goldilocks and the Three Bears." As you say, Goldilocks was searching for the "happy median," i.e., the sweet spot between too hot and too cold -- and between too soft and too hard. In your case, you'll be able to establish such a sweet spot between "too close" and "too far away" when you learn how to better control your own emotions. The more control you develop, the wider that sweet spot will become.

As to the DDD (aka "DPD" prior to the DSM-5 release in 2013), you likely know that it is one of the few "clinical" disorders for which no medicine seems to provide any real relief. It's not surprising you had an episode of it many years ago given that _"having severe dissociative symptoms"_ is one of the nine defining symptoms for BPD.


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