# Well, zarquon...



## Zaphod (Jun 1, 2011)

Hello everybody.

I found this forum about a month ago and I have been reading through posts on this sub-forum back through about July of 2010. This story will sound similar to some, different from others, but probably old hat regardless.

Married ~20 years. Same story as most here, dated for a while, married, sex started great and was neither inhibited nor withheld nor did it require spending $2,000 on a weekend resort to invoke. It deteriorated quickly after the ring was on the finger, never got back to “great”. In fact, it went from great to ok to routine to lacking to nearly nothing all within a 2 week period many years ago. As I said, same story different guy right?

She “lost her drive” according to my estimates around the time we were 28 years old (we’re the same age). We’re now almost 44. At the time I thought it was a dry spell, and I certainly am aware that the ebbs and tides of sexuality are not constant nor something to get immediately upset about. The ebb however turned into nearly 15 years of nothing, punctuated by disagreements, nay fights, frustration, feelings of a lack of self worth, etc. on my part. She on the other hand has dedicated herself to her career and it takes and has taken front and center stage with her attention and focus for most of our married life, to the exclusion of all other things (including the kids sometimes). It’s what I consider the sublimation of her sex drive into a non-sexual activity.

She started out as what I considered perfectly normal in the sexuality department, no hang ups, good frequency, decent level of communication. Now she is fully inhibited, we have very little to no frequency unless I bring up the issue, and the communication is utterly lacking. I try to speak with her about sex but her coping mechanism is avoidance of conflict (according to the counselor), meaning, she fox trots out of whatever room we are in immediately if the topic is broached and will continue to nearly run to other rooms if I follow. She will not accept me addressing any needs I have (“Don’t judge my performance!” which I don’t, trying instead to mention that when she used to do oral sex that I really enjoyed it, that kind of thing), and no matter how I attempt to communicate those needs she gets angry and defensive. And any sexual fantasies I have, I have been informed, must remain in my head alone and if I want to satisfy them I should close my eyes and imagine them and nothing else, period.

When her sex drive first “dropped” (bet you’re wondering why I put that in parenthesis? More in a bit), she stated that it was temporary, and that women generally get a high drive in their thirties, and she was 28 and gosh please, understand. So I understood. This was the mid-late 1990’s.

The thirties came, progressed and were almost passed. Nothing. Nothing except frustration, arguments and a deepening sense on my behalf that she just didn’t give a pair of fetid dingo kidneys about me or how I felt. After that she claimed that she was afraid of getting pregnant again (we have two kids), and that I should go under the knife and get a vasectomy and that would solve the issue. I was hesitant because nothing up to that point had been the “real” issue and this felt a bit like blackmail to me. Nevertheless in the spirit of “what the heck” I got a vasectomy. Needless to say, her libido somehow didn’t re-emerge.

I attempted to communicate with her about it not just being about sex but about connection with her, and how men in a deep relationship have this as an emotional requirement, etc, no dice. 2005 was our worst year, and I was nearly out the door, however her parents both fell ill simultaneously and I didn’t want to abandon her when they were so sick. By very early 2006 they had both passed away so in a sense I am actually glad that I didn’t leave then, both because she did need the support, and frankly I am not a jerk that would leave anybody to wave in the wind like that.

It finally came to a head around 2008 when I packed my car with some belongings (unbeknownst to her at the time) and directly told her “we fix this, now, or I’m gone”. Protests about it being “only about sex!” were met with “if it were only about sex I’d go out and pick up the first beautiful woman I met who winked at me and I’d have sex. It’s not just about sex, it’s about wanting to be connected to my wife again”. She argued some more (I had her in a second story room and I stood in front of the door) and I stated point blank that I was no longer arguing and that the choice in how our relationship goes forward was hers now, and to choose carefully because frankly I also had choices to make.

She agreed to see a sex therapist with me. During the course of the sessions, about once a week for 6 months, she indicated that I had not only NOT done anything wrong but that I was a great father, understanding, a decent man, hadn’t done anything major to upset her, was a great provider, etc. She stated that the issue was that she had never really had a sex drive, at all, ever. Except once, in college, 3 years before we met. Strangely, not when we met or after. She also stated that she has never had sexual fantasies, and that the only time she masturbated was for a brief few months when she was fifteen or so.

What bothered me then, and now, is that “never” is not compatible with “except”. She did have a sex drive, even if fleeting, so it’s not as if the potential does not exist, it’s simply not being explored or sought after. More worrisome is that somehow she was able to “fake it” when we were dating and several years into our marriage, to the point that it seemed real. Fact is, when she does consent to sex, she’s very orgasmic and she has many “tells”, such as a huge flushing around the neck the more turned on she gets, which I’m certain cannot be faked.

The therapist gave her several therapies to try to help her stimulate her dormant sex drive into starting up (dhea, a new pulsating detachable shower head, scheduling evenings of intimacy weekly since she’s a very controlling scheduling type of person, suggestions of “entry level” type sex toys, etc), as well as things for me to do such as scheduling date nights weekly (not sex nights, date nights), trying to understand that lack of libido (wait…the word “except” was still there in my mind…) did not mean lack of love, etc.

This worked somewhat…as long as we continued seeing the therapist. As it happened, during this brief time my entire world view went from dark gray to bright and sunny, I became very ambitious, life was zippidy do dah happy for once in a long time. We stopped seeing the therapist, thinking that the issue had been addressed (both of us agreed it had gotten better and that we were progressing). That was nearing the beginning of 2009 (late autumn, nearly winter). The “trying” on her part continued…for a very short while, and then declined because she wasn’t being reminded to apparently work on our relationship from a third party. I suggested setting up an iCalendar regimen (believe me, that’s how she works best according to her) of reminders, etc. No.

She stopped dhea and the bottle has sat in the medicine cabinet now, expired and untouched. The shower head has not been used except to shower. There is no weekly “schedule” any longer on her part (though the expectation remains for me to schedule a date night, however as of 6 months ago I stopped as it was silly to continue to give to somebody who didn’t give back). She has thrown herself back into her work, being absolutely content to spend 60 - 80+ hours a week at her job, and she even started volunteering for things to do for the office on Saturdays, which I put the kibosh on about a month ago (told her it was unacceptable and interfering with the family).

Two weeks ago I mentioned that she had stopped and was no longer trying and that our frequency of sex was down to once ever 4-6 weeks. First time since we stopped the therapist that I said anything "negative". She immediately shot back “that feels like pressure!”. Strangely though, when there is no “pressure” (in other words, if I say nothing for months on end and do not indicate in any way that our relationship is lacking intimacy) she seems content to do nothing and burble on her happy way with her career.

She has put in 2 attempts since then, one each week, of “ok, whatever” sex, which means sex where the goal is her pleasure and she neither reciprocates nor sees any need to even pretend I’m there as more than a human vibrator. And of course, she orgasms. Whether I do or not does not cross her radar as relevant.

Fact is, she does get turned on by some facets of sexuality, and when we were trying watching adult videos she would flush almost immediately around the neck and get extremely anxious and then we’d immediately have sex, sometimes within minutes of the movie beginning. She no longer consents to watching adult movies, by the way.

I’m done. I’m just done. This is madness. I understand perfectly that she called my bluff, though it wasn’t a bluff at the time I said “no more”. I’m tired of being bullied like this and made to feel like a petulant child who has silly childish needs that I need to grow out of. I’m tired of her not even respecting me enough to try to save the relationship.

We live well, and we have two well adjusted children who are happy, get great grades and are active and social. It seems as if I’m about to destroy their lives because of this, and in a way I am (or at least drastically altering their lives).

Am I missing something here that I have overlooked or haven’t tried? 

The “man up” advice doesn’t seem quite relevant since I’m not what you’d call a pushover. If I am, then I’m missing where this is occurring. I don’t “yes dear” my way through life, and I have several outside interests that I pursue without her by her choice (target shooting, astronomy, zymurgy club, airplanes, my motorcycle and cross country riding, etc). 

I’m in excellent physical shape, not only for my age but for any age (6’3”, 235, weight lift daily, blood pressure of 110/68-70, inclined leg press 1200+ pounds and bench 300+, random attractive women flirt with me openly and without me flirting first, etc). 

I’ve tried every “mushy” suggestion out there, and am (used to be?) quite romantic.

I don’t depend on her for all of my decisions like a lot of guys do with their wives (which I frankly find un-masculine and effeminate).

The thermostat was turned down by me several times over the years, resulting in several month stretches where she became quite content and happy and totally asexual. In fact, she was never happier than when I wasn’t expecting any sex. There were some women in that time that flirted with me, around her (some from her job actually), and this got her quite angry, but never resulted in any kind of “oh my gosh, I better clean up my act” revelations for her.

I help with the chores, not because I’m doing some kind of duty but because I share the house and it’s my responsibility as well as hers to keep it in good order. I’m educated and have a good career and have always worked diligently and without pause.

So what am I missing? Or is this simply it?

No sex drive, ever…”except”. Yeah, clearly I do nothing for her then, and further, she has made it clear that she doesn’t feel the need to at least try to do the things required to salvage our relationship. Lacking any effort on her part to at least try to participate, I don’t really know if there’s anything left to do but leave, or cheat.

Thoughts?

EDIT: On reading this I sound rather cold, distant and cruel. Please know, I’m not, I’m simply at the end of my rope. I am a literary and artistic type of person, write poetry and prose, joke a lot, and have what most people generally refer to as a happy outlook on life (or did, at one time). For 10 of the 15 years of this I accepted full responsibility and assumed it was all my fault and something I was doing and tried to change anything and everything. My children are my life, and I had hoped for nothing more out of life than to love a woman who loved me back and raise a family. Without intimacy, without sex except when I bring it up and then she only does it out of “duty” and is not shy about making that known, it’s just not working out.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I don't think you sound cold distant and cruel, quite reasonable really.

I think you need to move on, you have done your best and need to be happy too. She had many opportunities to ensure your needs were met and to voice if hers weren't.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Zaphod,

The human mind has the ability to replace unacceptable memories with memories that are not real. We often hear people say that they never loved their spouse, that they settled, or always had resentment, when the evidence is all around that they were indeed madly in love. Something happens and their current feelings don't match their memories so they substitute a new past to match their current situation. 

While you have identified the symptoms, and worked to cure them, they keep returning because you haven't found the cause. You are definitely missing something. 

You probably deserve an award for sticking this out for 15 years, but, I wonder if you haven't just reenforced her idea that her behavior is acceptable. 

Is there any hope? Is it worth it to try again? To me it doesn't look good. She is claiming the moral high ground, by rebuffing your attempts with accusations of excessive pressure or being all about the sex. She is unwilling to accept that her actions are hurting you. That position will have to change before any real headway can be made.

One other thing. If I'm volunteering to work Saturdays or late, it is because I don't want to be home. why?

M N


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

"Sorry I'm late..."


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

I'd say yes, you are missing something. I found, in great length and detail, the story of your (non-existent) sex life and how you feel about it. I read you speak of the occasions you brought it up to your wife. I understand how you feel, but you don't understand how your wife feels. Never once did I read anything that involved her feelings or her needs. You need sex. But she doesn't. Women need more than sex in order to want sex.....or it's just a chore. Along with everything else, I read between the lines to see/hear/feel your disdain. No one hides that. You didn't hide it here, and you don't hide it from your wife. 

To sum up, I am saying you neither give your wife reason to want you, and you also give her reason to NOT want you with all that disdain.

So funny to me how so often guys paint themselves the great husband. Yes, I know your wife says you are a great person, and I don't doubt it for a moment. But, none ever admit to being aggressive, saying unkind things, or any of those displays of disdain they really (don't) think they are hiding. Hey, I would too if I were in your shoes. It must be extremely frustrating, and you make her completely responsible. I know you don't know better than to do that though.

You will respond to tell me how wrong I am, but I wonder how she feels about that. And that's my point. Have you any idea how your wife feels? Or what she needs?

She doesn't need you to get into her body. She needs you to get into her head. There are books on the subject. Good luck.


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## Zaphod (Jun 1, 2011)

@Rain

If I hadn't mentioned it, and I think I did but perhaps I didn't detail it enough, I spent 10 of the 15 years accepting blame for everything that went wrong. Meaning, I asked her, over, and over, and over and over again, in every way I could conceive, in various situations and moods on her end, what the issue(s) was and then worked on whatever she brought up when asked.

The reason you hear disdain now is because I'm a new poster and my story seems fresh bang new and as if I hadn't had 15 years prior to this dealing with the situation. The feeling is, and I assume this is the same for most people, when a new person shows up that they are a newly hatched person with no idea what to do, who has done nothing except wallow in despair. I've tried everything I know, everything books suggested, everything she has suggested, everything the counselor has suggested, and not one thing has helped beyond the short term.

To make it clear, she felt the entire time that the sexlessness (or nearly so) of our marriage was not only not an issue, but that we had what she termed a "perfect life". Meaning, all of her goals/needs were met according to her definition (according to her); a nice house, good nest egg, two happy kids, good career. This is all I could *ever* get out of her, no matter how I broached the question(s). The bringing up of any kind of sexual needs in her eyes ruined that perfect equation and upset her perceptions, because it indicated some kind of flaw in her system (she's a perfectionist, which is not necessarily a bad nor good trait). Hence the extreme avoidance. She seems to have, for lack of a better term, and idealized picture of what life "should be like" and that picture was met. Introducing external issues that she felt were not relevant but which were causing emotional distress was making that idealization waver. She, as a result, fled and gave nothing else back except what I've detailed in my initial post. How one can gauge how another feels, when the other obstinately refuses to give you even the slightest clue, is beyond me, and probably why I'm here on this forum.

Am I perfect? Hell no. Not only not perfect, I'm completely 100% human and prone to all of the foibles and follies that everybody else is. That is why I did in fact assume all of the fault the first 10 years of this ordeal. Not just some of the blame, not just the lion's share of the blame, I mean 100% of the blame. I was absolutely convinced that I had flubbed up, somehow, and that this was some kind of cosmic retribution for my being such a bad person, and that obviously I had done something terribly bad to her and I wanted to make that right, fix it, to keep from causing her further pain. Bad, I wasn't certain how, but clearly I must have been, and she was happy to reinforce that. And you know what happened because I accepted 100% of the blame and continually kept asking how she felt about me/us/the relationship/life/the past/the future and for ways to improve myself? I apparently, according to this site, kept failing tests (and this was a mistake I see now). And, I got to go under an actual surgical knife when nothing was wrong with me, in circumstances that, were it not my wife, would be the basis for a very profitable lawsuit. Am I angry at the deception? You better believe it. But I wasn't for 10 years and I thought I was dealing with an honest person and that I was some horrible, bad person who was harming the woman I loved.

It's really hard to distill 15 years into a couple of posts. Believe me, I accepted blame, for everything. Even now I know that there are/were legitimate things to work on with myself. But without non-deceitful feedback from her it's rather difficult to pinpoint exactly what (relationship wise, I can of course look for non-relationship flaws, and have, as well, on my own). It seems rather odd to assume that I don't know better than to try and get her feelings on the topic and deal with how I'm affecting those, that I speak to her in angry or hurtful ways because I just don't know better, what kind of guy besides a brute Neanderthal sits down and angrily demands sex all the time the moment he feels his needs are not being met, and doesn't give a rat's petoot why the situation exists? Is that honestly how you perceive all/most men in this situation?

Anywho. Hope that my answer to your post made sense. When I post on forums I generally have a "voice" that is straight forward and more prone to logic than emotionalism which is a trigger for some people. It can cause problems, I know, so sorry if there was a misunderstanding if that was the issue.


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## Zaphod (Jun 1, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> "Sorry I'm late..."


The idea of an affair has crossed my mind. She does seem completely asexual though, but I'm aware that doesn't mean that she couldn't try an affair to trade up on a better husband. The working over/volunteering does seem to be corroborated by her boss (a female), and as my wife gives every sign of absolutely detesting homosexuality/bisexuality (she's rather clear about that), then I'm not certain what to think.

She's a very beautiful woman, objectively speaking (if I were not her husband I'd be instantly attracted, and many people comment to me about how beautiful she is). She could easily go out and get another, newer and shinier and richer guy no doubt.

Dunno man, if that's the case then she should just tell me and get it over with. Less torture for both parties I suspect. I have asked her about it about half a year ago, and got denial.


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## Zaphod (Jun 1, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> While you have identified the symptoms, and worked to cure them, they keep returning because you haven't found the cause. You are definitely missing something.
> 
> You probably deserve an award for sticking this out for 15 years, but, I wonder if you haven't just reenforced her idea that her behavior is acceptable.


I strongly believe that I absolutely reinforced her idea that the behavior was acceptable, since I took all the blame for a very long period of time. If I was taking all of the blame, I believe she could justify it as "yes, he is failing". That and failing the constant tests wasn't helping either (I shouldn't have assumed full responsibility for so long and pushed back on her from the beginning to meet me half way on working on this).



> Is there any hope? Is it worth it to try again? To me it doesn't look good. She is claiming the moral high ground, by rebuffing your attempts with accusations of excessive pressure or being all about the sex. She is unwilling to accept that her actions are hurting you. That position will have to change before any real headway can be made.


Yeah, that's why I'm here. I honestly have no idea how to crack the wall she's erected around herself to keep from disrupting her Utopia. Letting her know that this hurts me seems to have 0.0% effectiveness, it doesn't even register as a factor with her.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Mr. Nail said:


> Zaphod,
> 
> The human mind has the ability to replace unacceptable memories with memories that are not real. We often hear people say that they never loved their spouse, that they settled, or always had resentment, when the evidence is all around that they were indeed madly in love. Something happens and their current feelings don't match their memories so they substitute a new past to match their current situation.
> 
> ...


It's called "rewriting history" and many spouses do it to justify their behavior or lack thereof.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I guess you've learned now: stereotypes abound on a site like this. Not sure why. 

That said, I was a little confused at the end. I know that she thinks of the issue as only a minor flaw in an otherwise perfect relationship, but does she realize that this is dead serious to you? If you gave another ultimatum, would she just say no? Lastly, would she say that there was anything you could do to help her get there?

Somehow, she's lost focus with one of the primary reasons we marry. In my state, unmet sexual needs are ranked right up there with abandonment and infidelity as valid drivers for divorce. I get the impression that you absolutely don't want it to be a chore, but want it to be a source of your strong bond. 

Maybe you are wavering because you've been numbed by her rationalization that everything is good. However, her stance is strictly an avoidance measure. I think you'll have to tell her that you have serious unmet needs, and that she has to at least take the ownership for her contribution. Tell her that you obviously want this with her, but she is the one who is making the decision to save or end the marriage. In other words, committ to a plan that doesn't require your begging, or face the logical consequences of her stance: maybe allowing a brother or relative, or other platonic friend share rent with her.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I too, am met with defensiveness and all you think about is sex when I approach my husband as to what the issues are.

There are ISSUES - she just doesn't want to acknowledge or face them, same as my husband.

Hard to fix things or get the bottom of what the real issues are when your spouse won't open up and tell you. You work off of no information, misinformation and information you make up on your own for lack of other input - been there, done that.

I don't know what to tell you as I'm in a similar situation. But - mine started in the last 3+ years, not 10-15 years ago. So I'm a relatively newbie trying to navigate an unfamiliar world (sexless) - no experience with it and have been banging my head against the wall trying to figure it out. Which of course would be much, much easier if my husband would just be honest and tell me what the hell the real problem was. Nothing he could say would hurt any more than constant rejection.

But 10-15 years of it and almost from the beginning - I don't think I could have dealt with that and I don't blame you for being fed up. You're 44 - and deserve to be happy and fulfilled. Fulfillment, for you (and me) involves an intimate physical connection with your spouse. It appears that she doesn't need sex to be fulfilled. 

So - time for you to actually leave (even if temporary) and show that you're serious. No packing your bags and threatening to leave, but actually leaving for a trial separation (you don't have to tell her it's a trial), to see if this moves her into action.

If it doesn't, then I hate to say it - you need to move on.

I decided to stay, simply because we've been married 26+ years and the sex issues didn't start until a short time ago - so I have time to be patient while we try to work them out.

But if this had been an issue in my marriage from day #1 - well, let's say we wouldn't be having a 27th anniversary next year. I would have bailed a long time ago.

Good luck!


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## Zaphod (Jun 1, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> It's called "rewriting history" and many spouses do it to justify their behavior or lack thereof.


So how does one deal with this? I swear to you, it has been forever in the asking about her feelings, desires, motivations etc, yet even the sex therapist got really nothing else but this ("never had a libido, oh well"), which is why she suggested ways to overcome the "lack of libido". But as I mentioned, those didn't work out in the long term. If she will not be up front with a female therapist, what chance to do I have of figuring this out? I'm just a dopey guy after all, not a trained professional.

It just smacks of a continual game of dishonesty now. The most I can discern is that she is absolutely happy to have the Utopia and never hear about sex again, and she's happy to reinforce that notion at every opportunity. I can be a "bad boy", a "nice guy" or a "green Martian" for all it matters, nothing changes and no answers are forthcoming that seem to really address the why's/hows of what she feels inside. While clearly I may be failing in how I ask, the therapist apparently did also. I don't know where to look now, besides either infidelity or divorce.


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## Roooth (May 13, 2011)

Z,

I feel for you and I wish I had some insight to offer. I can tell you that in your situation, I would have a good bit of resentment over her faking libido when she says it was gone when you met. It's a total bait-and-switch and it sucks! This is not what you signed up for. 

And no, you didn't sound cold, distant or cruel. You sounded perfect: keeping in shape, wanting the intimacy of sex rather than just sex and manning up with your own interests. On top of that, you look at your part in a problem and address it vigorously. These are great traits and I feel for you that you are stuck in this situation.

Honestly, posts like this make me wonder about my situation. My husband's sexuality seems more like a personality trait than an issue or situation and through writing on this bored and thinking/talking it through, I'm coming to think this. If it's true and there isn't something wrong and this is part of who he is and how he relates to sex, that means this is what I'm stuck with for life and it's won't change. So I have to decide if it's enough.

For you it sounds like it's not and like it's a ton of effort on her part to provide you with sex. It is strange considering how she gets flushed/turned on. What worries me the most is not the sex drive, but the lack of interest in fixing it. Because you were ready to leave, she must know it's "dead serious" to you. If my husband needed something that badly that I wasn't into, I would do it for him. I don't hear any indication that it is traumatic or difficult for her in any way. If she's neutral about it or vaguely uninterested but it's so important to you, she should work to make sure you're happy. That's what I would do. It's also bothersome that she wanted to work/volunteer Saturdays instead of spending time with her kids. It makes me wonder: is she just using you guys for security and warmth when needed? It's obvious family is not a priority for her and I think that's very short sighted of her. 

It's not fun to get back to dating when you want true intimacy and connection with another, but it sounds like there has to be a reckoning or you're stuck with this for life. And... even with a reckoning/ultimatum/whatever, this still might be it and it's your choice.

I wish you well.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Zaphod said:


> So how does one deal with this? I swear to you, it has been forever in the asking about her feelings, desires, motivations etc, yet even the sex therapist got really nothing else but this ("never had a libido, oh well"), which is why she suggested ways to overcome the "lack of libido". But as I mentioned, those didn't work out in the long term. If she will not be up front with a female therapist, what chance to do I have of figuring this out? I'm just a dopey guy after all, not a trained professional.
> 
> It just smacks of a continual game of dishonesty now. The most I can discern is that she is absolutely happy to have the Utopia and never hear about sex again, and she's happy to reinforce that notion at every opportunity. I can be a "bad boy", a "nice guy" or a "green Martian" for all it matters, nothing changes and no answers are forthcoming that seem to really address the why's/hows of what she feels inside. While clearly I may be failing in how I ask, the therapist apparently did also. I don't know where to look now, besides either infidelity or divorce.


I don't know how to deal with it.

My husband has also rewritten history - but actually believes that what he says is true, even in the face of evidence that it is wrong.

People will actually convince themselves that things did happen that actually never took place.

I don't know if it's a case of extreme denial or the world they've created for themselves that is real - to them.

While this doesn't help, remember - that if they have perceived your martial history differently from you or have rewritten it to support their continued denial of what it actually was/is - this may look like dishonesty to you - but seems perfectly normal to them. 

I wouldn't cheat - I would leave first. 

Cheating will just create another entire set of problems and also set you up to disappoint family and possibly your kids, which could cause a rift between you and them as they will look at you as the "bad guy."

You might get the same title if you leave, but at least you won't have betrayed their mother.

As I stated before - I would tell her that you were leaving and that a separation would be best as you cannot continue to live in a sexless marriage - and mean it - move out, if only temporarily. Either that will spring her into action or it won't. If it doesn't - then you know that you can't salvage things and she won't change and this will make it easier for you to know that you did all that you could do. But bottom line - no matter how hard we try - we can't make our spouse change - they have to make the change and if they refuse to - well, then the marriage is NOT as important to them as it is to you.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I'd recommend that you decide once and for all that cheating is not an option, also. My wife and I had recently decided to divorce (now working to fix the marriage), largely due to her inability to address bipolar issues. Frankly, life was miserbale at times. I guess my lifestyle of agressive physical fitness tends to keep the sex drive ramped up, too, but I recognized the weakness.
For one thing, if we did divorce, integrity, coupled with passion are the key things I would look for. So, how could I expect that if I didn't hold myself to it?

BTW - In the Hitchhiker's Guide, are you the one with two heads, or is that the one in the title? It's been a couple of decades since I saw your username in the book.


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## Zaphod (Jun 1, 2011)

I was presenting the only two logical solutions to the situation as it stands now, at least in my view. I don't believe I have the ability to cheat. I don't consider infidelity necessarily illogical, there are plenty of people who do it and never get caught. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as karma, and people do bad things all the time without the slightest cosmic retribution.

Zaphod was the hoopy frood who picked up Trillian at a party, became the President of the Galaxy and stole the Heart of Gold. So yeah your first option.


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## baloo (May 19, 2010)

I am not suggesting you leave, but - if you do...."So long, and thanks for all the fish" would seem to be an appropriate exit line in your circumstances.


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## DennisNLA (Jan 26, 2010)

Zaphod said:


> I was presenting the only two logical solutions to the situation as it stands now, at least in my view. I don't believe I have the ability to cheat. I don't consider infidelity necessarily illogical, there are plenty of people who do it and never get caught. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as karma, and people do bad things all the time without the slightest cosmic retribution.
> 
> Zaphod was the hoopy frood who picked up Trillian at a party, became the President of the Galaxy and stole the Heart of Gold. So yeah your first option.


Let me tell you why the infidelity road is the wrong one. I would venture to say one of the reasons you have stayed 10-15 years in a sexless marriage is having contact and a positive influence with your kids. Your kids will never understand the reasons for your affair and the 15 years of hell will be for naught. You might as well of divorced yen years ago and forgo the hell you put your self in. 

Plan your exit strategy now, you can divorce your wife, you can't divorce your kids.

Dennis n LA.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Even at 13, I understood why my father cheated: Because he was married to a screeching battleax who was a prude. I was still not pleased with him, but I understood. 

Children pick up on more than you think. 

Zaphod needs to find a woman who prioritizes sex. His wife gets all the benefits of marriage, but she refuses to care about her husband's sexual needs. Sounds very selfish and warped to me.


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