# I need neutral advice.



## Lostpossum (Mar 1, 2021)

Before reading this I must say this, it is long but for the purpose of context. Also, time does help, after the breakup I was suicidal due to all the remorse and blame I felt. Now I think about her and it doesnt stop my day in any way, I miss her at times when I feel I miss intimacy but otherwise I am focusing on bettering my life and being healthier mentally.

So lets begin with the good. I am 27 (M) she is 28 (F).

My ex and I were together for 6 years. I became very close with her family and siblings. Constantly going over to their houses for family events, dinners, and doing double dates with her siblings and their partners. Each week we made sure to go on a date forsure and spent many other days throughout our entire relationship. My ex and I were best friends, she doesnt have any friends. We took trips each year together, we got 2 animals together, we lived together for 4 years together. I would always do romantic gestures like leaving things on her car after work, or flowers randomly, or bath and spa nights. I put her on a pedastal and did my best to make her feel truly loved.

We never fought and honestly barely had any arguments about things. Thats how well we fit together. Similarly we had many of the same interests and even tried each others interest. I was there for her through tough times when both of her grandparents tragically passed away. I was an usher to walk the caskets down, which can tell you how close I was to her family. Each year I went with her family on family trips.

Further, we had similar values. We both didnt smoke, didnt do drugs, highly valued our religion that we share and had many similar world views and values for relationships. We valued each other enough to stay in communication every day no matter what by texting or talking. When we lived together, it was never an issue with cleanliness, cooking, etc. We both did our part and never expected the other to have to do such. We had similar future goals and dreams (travel, marriage, family, living on a lake, etc.)

I can continue, but lets just say that we both felt very happy and in love together. We both expressed this daily. I never lied to her, I never cheated on her, I never did many things that would hurt someone outright. Further, I always tried to support her with her trauma and her own issues.

Now for what happened:

My ex has a trauma history from her past 2 relationships. Abuse and lying. Neither relationship lasted more then 6 months. This happened when she moved away for college before she met me. She mentioned it to me, and told me how she can find it difficult to trust at times because of this. I always remembered this and made sure to never do anything sexual when we drank because I didnt want her to feel any negative way regarding that. As well, I consistently tried to build that trust and never hurt that trust until this last year.

She grew up homeschooled with all of her siblings in a strict household ran by her narcissistic and autistic father. For example, living at home at 28 she still has a curfew otherwise her dad yells at her. She fears her parents and wanta to make them happy and proud, seeking validation by doing right constantly. An example of this was when she started college it was for a career they suggested. Being in this environment, she has social anxiety and thus has 0 friends. All the years I was with her she made 3 friends and cut them out within 2-3 hangouts.

My ex was diagnosed with CPTSD, depression, anxiety, and that was before we met. Those things all but went away or here I thought the first 5 years.

So no issues for 5 years, 6th year we have 3 things happen. I was planning to get engaged in 2021. As well, after college (end of 2019) we both moved back to our parents houses as we searched for our first jobs post college. Covid began, making it hard.

First thing:

My ex and I go to my cabin. She gets on an ATV with my cousin, I make sure they both have helmets and I tell my younger cousin she needs to drive very responsibly because my girlfriend was on it. She said thats okay and I even told my ex if she would rather drive with me she can, yet she was alright going with my cousin.

15 minutes later they are involved in a head on collison with a truck going around a very sharp turn at like 15 miles per hour. I was following them in my car and I was behind them by like a few hundred yards so I didnt see it happen due to the curve. Anyways I ran to my exes side. Held and compressed her leg as she was bleeding. Fast forward, I followed to the hospital and went into her room and waited the whole time with her. She was able to leave within 2 hours and had a tear in her muscle behind her knee, as well as a traumatic brain injury, and further a deviated septum.

We go back to my cabin, and I pretty much take care of my ex the next 24 hours til we leave for home. I helped her bathe, get dressed, made meals, grabbed ice or heat stuff, and even tried cheering her up by watching comedies she likes.

After dinner my aunt (mother to my cousin) asked me for help. I asked what for and she explained to me that my cousin didnt finish her test to drive the ATV before we left. I told her that I feel uncomfortable doing that and so I opted out. An hour later she asks me again but now tells me that if I dont that the state could sue my grandparents. My grandparents live month to month on their retirement and social security, thus I felt obligated. Later I found out they had insurance and that she was manipulating me. However in this moment my ex felt like I broke her trust by taking this test that I felt obligated to take. She felt like I intentionally set out to cover it up that my cousin should not have been driving. I see where she is coming from but also I felt pressured into it by my aunt and I explained this to her but she said it hurts her still and her trust was broken. I apologized by writing her a letter explaining how I never intentionally meant for that.

Now fast forward 2 months, my ex is still healing and I bring up possibly going to my cabin for a holiday and asking if she wanted to go. She said absolutely not, because my uncle and cousin may be there. I said I understand but this worried me because I was thinking about our future and how it would work regarding family occasions. I brought this up to her and we had a disagreement about it. I asked if they could come to a future wedding of ours, or if we held a family holiday would they be able to come? To which she said again absolutely not. I expressed how I felt about this considering this uncle was the one I was closest to. I said do you think in time your feelings will change? And she said no because of the permanent damage she felt from the accident. Then she brought up covering up for my cousin and that I should never speak to them again because of the pain they put her through via the accident and trust breaking. I took about a week to consider everything. During this time she thought and convinced herself I was choosing them over her BECAUSE I was arguing with her about them being in my life for future events. My family members also never reached out past the first week following the accident and she felt hurt by this. Yet, I reached out constantly and was supporting her healing process. I even wrote to her parents my apology for the damage she had been dealt. Unfortunately I will touch upon this later but her dad banished me from their house and family events.

I blocked my cousin, aunt, and uncle and sent them a long message regarding everything. Up to this point 2 months after the accident I had not spoken to them, and had been supporting my ex's healing progress. So not only did I not speak to them, but I blocked them and wrote what they did wrong and how it was not acceptable. Thus in this moment choosing her over my family members. She came back at the end of that week despite all of this and said my actions showed I chose my family over her and she felt very hurt by this. She said my actions to argue against her for people who hurt her was clear to her how I felt. These arguments were never yelling or anything, it was simply me asking if they would be able to be at certain events and my reasoning why I would appreciate them there. And even after me making my actions clear about not speaking to them since, and blocking them, she still felt betrayed because as she said, "my actions are clear and you chose them over me."

Well we dropped this topic moving forward because she was focusing on healing and I blocked them. Yet she still seemed hurt. Now her father is a great person, yet he is strict and he has autism. She never shared with her parents all the details. Simply the details of the accident. Before the accident I was at her house 2/7 days in a week I would say because that way my ex and I could see each other because she liked being at home. Then 2/7 days at my house. And 1 of those 4 days we would do a full date all day or all night. Anyways, since the accident her father grew very resentful to me. Despite my apology in writing, and even in person. He would argue with my ex that she needed to break up with me and that I was not a good person because I let her get on a dangerous machine. Mind you my ex is 27 and I am not controlling thus I did what I could by warning my cousin to be safe and giving them helmets. So her father blamed me, and he told I am not allowed over to their house. So now, my ex and I only saw each other at my house and less. Even so, my ex told me that she had to lie to her father where she was going because he would consistently yell at her to break up with me because I am not a good person for letting her get hurt.

Fast forward 3 more months, were still doing weekly dates and still having sex frequently. We are getting into a better place as we close into graduating. At this time, we were at our parents doing internships. I still am not allowed over and she is even having me pick her up a street over because she did not want her dad to see when we would spend time together. This was hard for me but I never argued about it and just understood despite how bad I felt that her dad hated me when I didnt cause the accident. We are spending less time together because of her father on her back, and because she doesnt prefer to always come to my house (I have smokers in the house and she hates the smell, as do I but I need to deal with it until I could move out again) i would always spray and light candles to make it better.

Event 2:

Now another month forward we are now into the beginning of 2020, we find out that we are unexpectedly pregnant. We used birth control but it must have failed. She brings out the test and as I wait I am smiling thinking about everything. When she brings them both out they are both positive I hug her and then I begin to have a panic attack. Let me make an important note here, I have an anxiety disorder which she knew about. My panic is breathing heavy, heart racing, face likely looking panicked, and intrusive thoughts. These thoughts began to come out, as I explained to her this: "I am so grateful and happy for this. I am worried though because neither of us have jobs, we are living at our parents and you dont want to live with me because of your parents, as well your parents are going to be mad at me even more then they were with the accident." She begins to cry, and tells me this is suppose to be a happy moment. I tell her I agree 100%, and I am happy, but we are going to need to figure some things out so that we stay happy. I dont want her and I to struggle financially in any way, I grew up poor and thats why I push myself to work and find a career. She agrees but still seems really sad.

I see her about a week later and she begins telling me we need to go to her therapist. I ask why and she says we need to make a big decision. Continuing I ask whats that. She said we have 3 options, keep our baby, give our baby up for adoption, or abortion. I tell her thats okay and we go to her therapist. During this session she breaks down crying because she is worried about everything, she speaks for atleast have of the session about her parents and why she is worried they will disown her, and why she is worried about their opinion about premarital sex and a baby our of marriage. We leave with the therapist telling us to come back in a week with pros and cons for each option.

After seeing her cry and worry, I spent the next month looking for work 8 hours a day. Yet it was covid layoffs happening and so I couldnt find squat. Anyways, a week later I bring my pros, my cons, as does she. I preface the talk with saying I want to keep our baby, I have been looking for work, and I dont want her parents to be a reason why we choose something like this. Then I also say I will continue to step up.
We give our pros and cons for each and hers are mostly focused on her parents and the lack of financial security. I understand and we talk about the options in therapy.

Another week and at this point we are going together to all of the doctors appointments. She talks to me and asks me what do I want to do? I tell her she seems pretty set on abortion based on our talk in therapy, that I want to keep our baby, but if not then I still want children in our future. She tells me she is leaning on abortion, and I tell her I will have to support this decision.

Finally she and I go to a doctors appointment and the whole time I am nervous because the night before I was highly debating buying an engagement ring and proposing to her. Yet, I was arguing with myself because I didnt want her to feel like I was doing this only because of the situation. During this appointment I was in my head and distant as I contemplated it. Afterwards, she mentioned how my actions were pretty clear in this appointment that I was against having our baby. I told her I was only distant because I have something on my mind I cannot share with her, because mentally I still hadnt decided. She didn't believe me. I couldnt pull the trigger because like I said I didnt want her to resent me thinking that I was only doing it for this reason.

A week later she scheduled the abortion and told me that she decided to go forward with the abortion.

The day comes and I drive her there, outside I tell her we can leave and that we do not need to go in. She trudged in, and seemed very distant, understandably why. We go into the room and I am asking all of these questions out of concern for her during this. And then we wait, I told her we could leave, but she said no.

It happens and then I bring her home and do my best to make everything both comfortable and enjoyable by making her favorite dinner, and watching her favorite movie etc.

We do not talk about it and do not have sex for 2 months. I told her I am not going to pressure any of that and when she is ready we can go slow into whatever she wants to do. We are having good sex again, but she is very worried about anything getting into her. So we begin to see her therapist again, still we both are looking for jobs, and still doing our weekly dates as best as we can with covid and not being able to go to her house.

Fast forward 2 more months. And she got a job! I am still looking because in my field (teaching) they were distance learning and not in need of subs nor teachers. Soon summer was upon us and she was working 40 hours a week.

Event 3:

Well by this time, I was pretty depressed by the abortion, the previously mentioned betrayal she felt from the accident, and now my lack of finding work. On top of all of that, with her working so much, I only got to see her max 9 hours a week. I associate that to both her busy schedule and her withdrawing from me. But during this time, I would mention getting married in our future and having a family when we are ready and simply telling her I still wanted that. I maybe brought it up once a month and she would cry and tell me she is not ready right now for those and that in the future she might be. I would tell her, I fully understand and that I only bring it up to assure her I still wanted that with her.

Well for 3 months we handle this, and juggling little time spent together on her end, I had a bunch of free time because I was still looking for work. I would ask her to go out and do things (hikes, walks, water activities, movies, etc.) And she would tell me how she is busy and cannot until the weekend. Before all of this her and I would go on walks almost 4/7 days if not more with her dog for like an hour. I was becoming needy because I would ask her to include me in those things. I would sometimes cry and ask her if she wanted to see me, and she would respond that she sees me already as much as she wanted to in a week (9 hours).

She had me over for a family bbq and mind that at this time I had not been over to her house in almost 9 months. When I use to come over for many hours every week and help out her mom and spend time with my ex and her family. When I was there I was nervous. I stayed outside in the backyard with her siblings. When they wanted to go into eat, I denied the food because I didnt feel welcomed by her father and thus I didnt want to eat the food out of fear of him saying something. Well they grab food and come back out. My ex however does not. 3 minutes later I get a text telling me to leave and meet her near her house because her dad just yelled at her when they were alone in the kitchen. I slipped out and we take a walk and she is hurt, her dad told her that if she didnt get me off their property he was going to divorce her mom because of her. This hurt me deeply that he would say that. I texted her mom telling her thank you for inviting me and that her husband told my ex those things.

Now to the most current thing:

Still in this realm of feeling sad due to time spent, and everything, my ex and her family go on their family vacation. The one normally I always go on, yet I was not even invited and my ex never brought up considering inviting me. They leave for a week and I am happy for them to be going.

When they return I plan a date for my ex and I the following day. It goes really well until the end. She begins telling me about the trip and how her sisters friends went. This made me feel sad and left out and I began to cry. I explained that I just felt excluded from her life the past few months. Especially now between the bbq and the trip where other people not even affiliated with any family member aside from being friends with them was invited. As well as the lack of her inviting me to do things we use to do together.

She is mad and tells me it is completely out of her control. And I tell her I understand completely that part (cabin/bbq) yet I wish she would try to invite me to more parts of her life I can be a part of.

The next day she is majorly distant, and so I call her and she tells me she is pissed at me. I give her a few days. Then we meet up and essentially she tells me that she doesnt know if she can give me what I need anymore. Going on to tell me that she doesnt see a future together, she doesnt want to have children with me, doesnt want to get married. She tells me that she spent a week having fun and that I ruined it by bringing all of that up. Then that we need to have space and a seperation. 1 month but we are still together she clarifies and that were not dating other people.

2 weeks pass, and she texts me she cannot do it anymore. She calls me and tells me she wants to break up. I beg and plead, and she tells me she doesnt trust anything I say, she feels heart broken, she feels I hurt her, and that my actions have showed her this. She tells me she has given me many chances and that she keeps getting hurt. I try to defend myself by saying I understand but I have never made the same repeated mistakes of hurting her. She says nonetheless that they happened and unintentional or not, she is done being hurt. This hurts me because I truly never did do the same mistakes over and over again. She ends the call by telling me I love you.

A week later we meet in person to talk about the break up. We talk for 3 hours. During this talk, she tells me many things that floor me mentally but I simply just take it because I didnt want the possible last moment to be negative.

She tells me that she has had so much clarity the last 3 weeks. She said that she realized first that I broke her trust and that really hurt, but then being she was in such a vulnerable place from this moment with the accident that when she had to decide about our baby, that I WAS THE REASON she chose to have the abortion. She goes on to say that my actions showed her I didnt want to have our baby with her, that my actions of having a panic attack and being distant were clear to her (despite me never once thinking I didnt want to have our baby with her). She broke down telling me this and I simply told her repeatedly I am sorry you believe that but that was not the case and it seems what I tell you, you do not believe. She said my actions were clear. So she essentially blamed me for our abortion, and the accident. Yet I chose her in the accident by both supporting her and blocking my family, as well, with the abortion I was supportive of her and keeping our baby, not to mention she never brought this up ans her reasons were focused on her parents opinion and her fear of that.

Then she goes on to say our relationship became so toxic the last year that she now needs to find herself and heal. That she needs major space and time and that maybe in the future we could be together. Then she said she may need years of space from me to have a clean slate from what I did to her. She said she loves me, that I am an amazing person and I will have a great life. She will always care about me and is grateful for the amazing times we spent together. But she said she needs to do what is right for her.

She removed myself, my friends, and all of my family members from social media. Removed all of our photos and posts. Did not block, but asked me not to contact her. Which I have respected for months now. She said I can keep the animals and all of our belongings in storage from when we lived together. She has 0 friends as I believe I mentioned before because she has trouble both connecting and trusting them. But her one sibling that I am still friends with has posts on her wall that my ex posted and tagged her in so I can see them. They are about essentially "Someone who loves you wouldnt do this, or someone who loves you shows you in their actions" and other stuff seemingly out of resentment towards me.

Since our breakup I have felt deep deep remorse, for our abortion, and the blame she put onto me. As well, grief, from her leaving me and outright projecting so much of her pain she never mentioned previously onto me.

I have been doing better each day, working 3 jobs now, planning trips, and my future. Been on depression medication that helps also my anxiety for months since our breakup and seeing 2 therapists weekly.

So of course this was a long story. Sorry. But I wanted to get it out of my mind since I havent been sharing this with anyone except my therapists.

I am struggling deeply with all her blame. I feel like I was supportive and she told me I was not as much as I could have been. Meaning I didnt meet her expectations and ultimately she concluded by that, that I was just downright NOT supportive at all. Which like I said I feel is so untrue.

I tried to communicate but it just feels like now she only listened to what she wanted to hear and only saw the actions she wanted to see, which unfortunately are the ones that hurt her. I told her I never intended any hurt, pain, rejection, or trust breaking. I realize intent or not she was hurt, and would ask how she could forgive me. Unfortunately she wouldn't forgive me and left me with chances, like "I have given you more chances then I should and I just continue to get hurt." To which I just felt like it was a losing battle since I never once repeated my mistakes once they were brought to my attention I tried diligently to never do them again. Panic attack - therapeutic options explored, taking the test and arguing about my family - cut off my family members, struggling with depression and not seeing her but 1 day a week and having times of negativity and crying during that day - when mentioned I got onto depression medication and started therapy and even asked her to go to therapy together. She kept score of her hurts and would not forgive me despite not repeating mistakes.

What is your take on my story with my ex?

TLDR: My ex and I had no issues, then it all fell apart after an accident, her abortion, and a lack of spending time together this last year. She blames me for being unsupportive and says I was not there for her when she needed me.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

I am sorry you are going through this. We often tend to blame ourselves after a relationship falls apart and analyze every thing that happened over and over. Here is what you do know, you wanted to keep working on it and she wanted to end things. A lot of big things happened in your relationship in a short amount of time and it seems instead of reaching out to you, she pulled away. It is hard to admit, but you can't go back in time and change things. I would imagine she is feeling a lot of guilt over the abortion and instead of admitting that to herself, she has chosen to blame you for it. It's not fair but life rarely is.

What you need to do now, is look forward. You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. You were with her for a long time and it's easy to lose yourself when you are part of an 'us'. Maybe someday you will get back with her and maybe you wont. Remember that who you are is not defined by her or being part of a relationship. Believe in yourself and realize you learned a lot of things from this relationship that you can use in the future. Love yourself and continue to have hope for your future. You're worth it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

my thoughts: You seem to be very dependent on this relationship. You can’t function. You need antidepressants and 2 therapists a week. What good are they doing you? Do you feel better?

You need to work hard, get a career instead of three jobs, and start building yourself a life that someone (a young lady) will WANT to be a party of.

Your ex gf is no prize. If she’d wanted that baby, neither he’ll or high water would have made her abort it. Her crazy father and family and your gf herself show you at every turn how crazy they are. How could you possibly want to be a part of that family?
She will f up every relationship she’s ever in.
And sadly (I don’t say this to be mean) you will too if you don’t start moving forward and getting some confidence in yourself by building yourself a life.

I will say this: a young man that does well for himself has NEVER got to worry about finding a woman.

She broke up with you. Dude, it happens. It’s happened to pretty much every person on the planet. Don’t let that freaking ruin your life. If there’s any meaning in statistics, even if you’re healed and in a normal state of mind, you’re likely to get dumped again. It’s part of life.

Look at all the issues your gf had. They won’t disappear. Stop living in the past.

Move Foreward. Do you really think that one girl is the only person you can ever love? She’s not. And realize if she loved you—- it wouldn’t make any differenve what her crazy dad says. She doesn’t have the same feelings for you that you have for her.
Let her go. You don’t have a choice.

Truly, once you get a handle on your own life and start making progress. You won’t even want her back. Because you’ll see her as everyone else does— a damaged person who is not wife material for anyone. Geez, she hasn’t forgiven you if anything, and blamed you for everything. Do you want to MARRY that? Damn, if you do, you’ve got a lot of growing up to do.
Good luck.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

That’s very sad, but she doesn’t want you and I would work with your therapist and move forward.

Also, really really forget her and don’t settle for the next person if you aren’t ready. You want a woman that wants you, and maybe one day you’ll find that - so when you do, 10 years later don’t go looking for the ex on fb because you’re chasing closure or still in love with her


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

You dodged a big, big bullett here. This girl (she's not a woman, she's a girl) needs to grow the heck up. She sounds very immature and like very hard work.

You yourself need to get a handle on your anxiety. I don't mean to be nasty, you just sound quite weak. Women need their men to be strong. Not cry and beg them for attention. 

You need to read 'No More Mr Nice Guy', and put your spine back in. Don't ever let anyone treat you like that again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*@Lostpossum *

I merged your two threads into this one. It's better to have one thread on a topic as you will get better input that way.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

You two certainly had a lot of obstacles. One thing that stood out to me was that she made choices and later decided to lay all the blame on you for choices she made. Now, maybe she felt resentful because the choices (getting on the vehicle, getting an abortion) were your idea, but she is not a child and she made the decision to do thsoe things, so it seems unfair of her to lay the blame on you. Nobody could have known what would happen on the vehicle, although one could argue it's extremely dangerous, but a lot of people are hobbyists in a sport that is dangerous and don't get seriously hurt (skiing, horseback riding, American football). So in the end, it's about that person taking precautions and then just making the choice and living with the consequences. She does not seem mature which is perhaps unsurprising, and her parents who are naturally protective of her are just feeding her resentment over her own choices. I would focus on yourself, your mental health and your career. On enriching friendships and family. When you feel steady and stable and confident, then that's the time to think about dating and relationships but generally quality, stable people come to you when you are yourself a quality, stable person.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Lostpossum said:


> Before reading this I must say this, it is long but for the purpose of context. Also, time does help, after the breakup I was suicidal due to all the remorse and blame I felt. Now I think about her and it doesnt stop my day in any way, I miss her at times when I feel I miss intimacy but otherwise I am focusing on bettering my life and being healthier mentally.
> 
> So lets begin with the good. I am 27 (M) she is 28 (F).
> 
> ...


To start I'm a little confused about the accident. Was the situation that this cousin really should have been driving the ATV or at least was not experienced enough that they should not have had a passenger. Why did this accident have such an impact on your ex's trust of you? 

You both sound like you have a teenager mentality in a way. You ex is approaching 30 soon and is still controlled by her father. I think your behavior while trying to be supportive was extremely passive. You were running around basically hiding your relationship from her family because they disapproved. At that point the discussion should have been either she wants to be with you or not. If she did then you should have spoken to her father and explained you were not going anywhere and planned to spend the rest of your life with her. You basically left her alone to deal with that, you should have dealt with it in a MAN to MAN conversation. 

On the abortion again you were too passive when she needed strength. If you wanted to keep and raise the child with her you should have not just said I want to keep it but it is up to you. I think in your head you knew the right way to handle it and had a clear view of what you wanted, but you chickened out. I'm not saying that to be little you in anyway, it was a situation with nor perfect way of handling it, but she was looking to strength and to feel safe. Here's a simple truth about most women, they want you to be strong and decisive without having to tell you or ask for this. People joke about women wanting men to be mind readers because there is some truth to it.

Looking back many years I can pinpoint to defining moment of my relationship with my wife. We dated as teenagers, and I am a year younger than her. When she was going into her senior year of high school she had the opportunity to take an unpaid internship which would be great experience basically shadowing the head of marketing for a fairly large company. Her father was dead set against her taking something unpaid as he felt she was just being a slave and working for free. She really wanted this internship but was very stressed because her father was quite overbearing. One night at a family dinner the topic came up as she had to make a decision if she was going to take it or not. Her father started laying into her that she was being stupid and got pretty nasty. I kind of instinctively jumped to her defensive and kind of stepped over the line in telling him he was being and a-hole and if it was a mistake it was her mistake to make but she was very smart and had very good reasons to want this internship it provided invaluable experience. Things got quite heated and he was really pissed at me, it was so bad my now SIL was crying by the end of it. My now wife took that internship which turned out to be a very good thing. The CEO of the company ended up writing her an incredible letter of recommendation which she was able to use in her college admissions applications and to get a series of great summer jobs during college which lead to getting a great job out of college. Basically that internship made her career. Now I have no earthly idea what made me stand up for her to her father the way I did as a 17 YO dopey kid. But years later my father in law told me that it was that night he knew I was the guy for his daughter, and my wife will point out that dinner as the moment she knew I would have her back no matter what.

So why do I tell this story, because it was a huge risk, her father could have gone fully anti our relationship due to me speaking to him the way I did. But sometimes when the **** hits the fan as men we need to stand up and fight. Women do appreciate a guy who has some sensitivity and can be soft and cuddly, but when things are dire they don't want a guy to sit and cry with them, those are the times they want to feel protected against anything, our family their family anyone and anything. You were trying to be sweet and caring and supportive when the situation called for strength and definitive action. Whatever happened with the ATV it sounds like there was something your GF felt you didn't protect her from right or wrong, and since then there has been a series of events where your passiveness reaffirmed her not seeing you as a strong decisive protector. This is evident in her blaming the abortion on you, while that is pretty crappy and wrong, I'm taking it as she wanted the warrior to take control, she wanted you to state without reservation you wanted to keep and raise the baby with her, it sounds like you felt at that point you wanted to marry her but you balked, she wanted you to reassure her it would be OK, she wanted you to make it OK with her parents and show them that it wasn't their life it was the two of your lives and you were ready for the responsibility. 

So I'm guessing you're here hoping for some sage wisdom on how to win her back. Well you need to start by focusing on yourself and becoming a stronger more stable MAN. You need to start building a life and developing confidence, and security. Leave the sweet boy behind and become a strong successful man. No more passiveness. Maybe she sees that and wants you back, I'm thinking there is too much water under that bridge but if that is your ultimate goal that is what you need to do. If you make these changes in yourself and never speak to her again you'll still be far better off personally in the future.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You made love to a shadow.
You held a gossamer Lady, not one real.

She was never a person, she was her family, with they in her head.
Any hurt she owned, she attached it elsewhere.

She could not own any of that pain without cracking wide open.
She was a living amalgam of chattering nay-jays.

She was badly programmed by her family, especially by her toxic father.
She needs intensive therapy, to rid herself of that cult-like clan.

...................................................

I would look at getting a Masters degree in Business, say, in Marketing, to strengthen your employ-ability, outside of teaching.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

To be a good teacher you will need to have wit, empathy and thick skin.
And, a mastery of your subject.

Your empathy is ample, your skin, it tears way too easily.

Students today, will eat you alive.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

This sounds like two people heavily co-dependent with neither able to escape circling the drain. I don't see it working out without each discovering who they are, separately, and then figuring out if they can truly be a functioning couple. Lots of therapy. The successful outcome of therapy may be a realization that it can't work out.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This is going to be some tough love. I’m going to be blunt and tell you how i see it.

You were weak and did not show leadership or any moral strength or courage.

Young cousin was not an eligible operator of the ATM and due to the cousin’s incompetence, your GF was seriously injured.

Then you were pressured into being complicit in covering it up to protect the cousin.

You protected the cousin illegally instead of standing up for her and her rights when she was the injured party. She saw you as weak and not strong and trust worthy to protect her or any future offspring, so she lost respect and faith in you.

Then she got pregnant and you failed to secure a steady job. ANY JOB. Again, she lost more faith and confidence in you as a partner and provider and leader of strength and capability to provide and protect her offspring. 

Then you blew it big time on the abortion. I am pro-choice politically. However no woman actually wants to have an abortion. Deep down she wanted you to stand up and protect YOUR OWN CHILD. You did not. You allowed your offspring to be killed and you even drove the car. 

When she first mentioned abortion, deep down she wanted you to stand up in indignation and say, “Hell no you’re not harming my child b1tch!”

But you didn’t. You gave her permission and support and thusly showed her you were not committed to standing up for and supporting this child and confirmed to her on a very primitive DNA level that you do not have the moral strength, commitment and moral courage to be a partner and husband or father or a provider and protector for her offspring.

You can’t recover from this. Her basic biological programming at her very instinct DNA level has told her you are weak and incapable of providing for, protecting and maintaining a family. 

You can not talk your way out of this or write letters or give flowers or in any way weasel or slime your way back into her heart or into her pants. She is rejecting you from her animal core. 

Walk away. 

Walk away and grow and develop yourself as a man. Get a job. Grow some balls and a spine. Develop some moral courage to do the right thing even though other people may want you to do wrong and even though they may not like it. 

You have failed her and there is no redeeming yourself in her eyes or her heart or her sexuality here. Leave her be forever and work on yourself and develop yourself so that you may have another chance with someone else some day if that is what you want.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I’m also going to say that your novel made it sound like you have spent the duration of your relationship sucking up to her and sucking up to her family and basically trying to slime your way into their good graces and acceptance. 

I know you think you were doing the right thing and I know you probably think you were doing good. 

Her grandmother may have thought you were sweet but most likely people eventually figure you were just a slimey worm trying to suck up. 

You’re probably too young to remember Eddie Haskell from Leave it to Beaver but someone who is always trying to get into people’s good graces but then buckles under pressure and fails to take a moral stand for what is right, is seen as weak and slimey and a moral coward. 

Moral cowards do not make good partners, spouses or parents. 

Women don’t respect morally weak men and women can’t love or desire men they don’t respect. 

Neither do their parents or families.

Read @happyhusband0005 story above again and again until it sinks in. 

He stood up for his GF/‘wife to her father and stood for what he believed.

He turned out to be right. But even if he turned out to be wrong, they would have still had more respect for him making a stand to stand by her, rather than his sucking up.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I would have to agree that you should have stood up for your child. You didn’t.
You shouldn’t have helped cover the tracks of the cousin. You did.

But, you were put in untenable situations by your gf. She shouldn’t have put all the abortion blame on you. Shouldn’t have put all the blame of the atv accident on you. In both of these examples she was complicit in a much higher level of guilt than you.

The person you portray in your story is willing to accept untold numbers of dumptrucks full of poop, and will gobble them up by the ton.

You don’t have to be the scapegoat for anyone else’s dysfunction. Own your problems. Let others own theirs, too.

Build yourself a life and some confidence before you choose to date again.
Stop accepting blame from your gf’s when it’s not yours to accept. Stop trying to be some perfect boyfriend and just be yourself.
Definitely read No more Mr Nice Guy.
Stop assigning value to people who clearly don’t value you. You’re young and have plenty of time to work on these things.
Remember, nobody is perfect. You don’t have to be either.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You should have secured ANY job! Do that now! Work work work! 60 hours a week for any young person helps them to get a good idea of what work is - and earns money - which you need. It also will keep you busy...which you also need.

But I have to say, she made decisions for herself - yet blamed you! And you stood there and took blame when it was decisions she made!

Get help for codependency. You have issues...and need help with them.

Lose the gal - she needs to grow up and take responsibility for her own actions.

Build an independent life. Work hard and move out. Create a new life and a new future for yourself.

Leave her and all that terrible history in your past. Be done and move forward.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> But, you were put in untenable situations by your gf. She shouldn’t have put all the abortion blame on you.


(Disclaimer: politically I am pro-choice and don’t want any of this to deteriorate into an abortion debate)

I agree that the GF has a few screws loose and a lot of issues of her own.

However her deep, primal, instinctive drives do not care about politics or women’s rights or any of that. Her ancestral mammalian female brain only cares about if a potential mate has the strength, courage and ability to feed and protect her and her offspring through the winter, through a plague and through an attack by another tribe. 

She already had serious doubts about his fitness as a man/partner/provider. 

The abortion was just a galactic sized Fitness Test and he failed. 

That was just the final spikes and shovels of dirt for the coffin of her respect and faith in him. 

He allowed and supported her in killing their own offspring even though she had a few screws loose, so deep in her mind he is completely unfit as a mate. 

He didn’t even have the balls and moral fortitude to stand up to her. 

If he had taken the job as a greater at Walmart, got a one room apartment that had heat and no rats or bugs and taken a stand that they would raise their offspring there come hell or high water, she may have considered it.

But he continued to be a weasel that tried to look like a sweet little boy to make everyone pleased with him and it resulted in the death of his own offspring and hers. 

He’s done here. He failed the ultimate Fitness Test on a galactic scale.

Is it entirely fair? No. But Mother Nature doesn’t play fair. She wants to see strength and courage in the face of unfairness.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Just what did you do about the 'test' for your cousin? How did you fix that? Did you lie to the authorities? What do your parents think about this cover-up? So, your grandparents owned the ATV - who owned the cabin (you said "my"; but, I kind of doubt that)?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Lostpossum, first off let me say that I'm really sorry that you're here and going through a hard time. It sucks to be broken up with.

Next thing: your ex's family and your ex seem to really thrive on drama; is this something that you really want to live with for the rest of your life? 

The baby: you made your intentions clear when you said that you wanted to keep the baby. OK, you could have been clear on your thoughts the day of the abortion and communicated them to your ex, but you can't go back now. However, your ex could also have asked for your thoughts, you guys could have both taken a step back and talked. But going by what your ex actually KNOWS: that you wanted to keep the baby, she has no right to put her abortion choice entirely on your shoulders. For this reason alone, I would say that you're in a much better place to not have her in your life. I'm so sorry that you're now carrying the blame for this around; that's so wrong to place on someone. She's projecting her part in this decision onto you, and that's not right. Do her parents know that she was pregnant?

Your ex's family: her father in particular seems very manipulative and controlling. It could be because he's autistic, I don't know, but this isn't right. She's 28 and let's her father control her life. I'm not really one to talk here; my parents are also quite manipulative and controlling, but I do my damndest to separate myself from that. She needs to be doing the same thing.

The accident: wasn't your fault. It was the fault of the ATV driver, who apparently didn't have a license to drive it. They should never have been behind that wheel. From my understanding, you essentially wrote the test for that person so that they wouldn't get in trouble, yes? If that's the case, that's bad; you shouldn't have done that. That's essentially lying to the law.

Question: did you apologize to her when you hurt her feelings, or kind of sweep it under the rug? If you genuinely apologized, then I honestly see no reason for her to hold onto grudges, and that is her choice, not yours. Personally, I don't see anyone being enough to keep her happy.

I do agree with her in that you guys have a toxic relationship, and that you guys need to find other people who work better for you both as partners. Relationships take effort, but when they're THAT much work, sweat and tears, they aren't worth it.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

You might as well be a unic considering you have no balls.

Weak got you lucky that she broke up with you. 

Strong, you would have broken up with her because you likely wouldn't have put up with the PSYCHO she is.

Take your new found freedom and learn to be a man, but first you must grow some big hairy balls.


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## Lostpossum (Mar 1, 2021)

My ex broke up with me after 6 years because she felt I was not being supportive of her. She said she was very unhappy when breaking up but never brought it up before. Yah we would have our arguments but it was never about her being unhappy, that came out of nowhere. Most of our arguments ended the day of and we tended to resolve them.

Her lack of support she felt came in weird ways though. For example she began working full time and we lived apart and I would ask her for some more time together. Because at this point I would only see her 1-2 times a week for a few hours despite us being together for 6 years, and living 10 minutes apart. In this situation she told me she felt I was not being supportive of her being busy with work. She only worked 40 hours a week as had I, and she has 0 friends. So I just kept feeling like she was avoiding me since she didnt seem interested in seeing me more often. I wouldn't bug her to spend time, but rather I would ask her to include me in things in her life during the week. She told me she felt unsupported because I was not understanding that she was busy with work. (Again only 40 hours)

Another thing, she and I shared our cats. During this time she lived with her parents. Her father is antianimal, one time he kicked their dog and my ex came down on him. She had me bring over our cat 1 time and he was screaming about letting the animal go by opening the doors and such so its not in his house. She wanted me to let our animal stay at her house full time and I was opposing the idea because I was not able to see her that often and further I was just asking for compromise of like switching off weeks. She was not having any of it. "You have had him for months, I just want him now its only fair." To which it is true, but I was asking for compromise and she felt by me simply asking that I was not supportive of her and that I was being selfish. She ended the conversation by literally just saying, "its fine, hes your cat, you can have full ownership." And I just said I never asked for that I just want to find a compromise where we both get to see our cat and one which he wont be hurt and have me worrying about your dad.

She had an abortion because when she announced unexpectedly, I had a panic attack due to circumstances at the time. No jobs for both, not living together and she wouldnt live with me because she feared her parents opinion, etc. I voiced these during my panic attack and she agreed. Her reason was fear of her parents. She voiced it many times in therapy. She thanked me for being so supportive before and after the abortion. Then during breakup she told me she was unhappy because of me (never said this before), she felt depressed because of me and our relationship (never said before), and that had I not panicked she likely wouldn't have had the abortion. This destroyed me considering she made her reasons clear before and now changed them when leaving me. She told me she felt heart broken during the breakup because my panic showed her I didnt want to have a child with her and that she was not goid enough. I NEVER ONCE said those things nor did I feel that way. I told her I respected her choice and I felt she was incredibly strong for getting through everything.

Finally, we went to my family cabin. Mind you, I would spend upwards of 5 days a week with her family at times for the first 4 years. However she only spent time with my immediate family maybe 6 times a year, and my extended family like once or twice. I would invite her but she just wouldn't always want to. So we went to the cabin and she was involved in an accident on an ATV with my 14 year old cousin driving and her on the back. Obviously my cousin never intended to hurt them, as my cousin sustained major injuries as well as my ex. Ya know were at 5 years together, were talking about children, well with children comes family holidays and such. After the accident I didnt speak to my cousin because I was mad she hurt my girlfriend despite it being an accident and all. But I did bring up to my ex over to course of a month maybe 5 times, is my cousin and her family going to be allowed to anything we plan? My ex was completely against it and wanted nothing to do with them. She felt and told me that I chose my family in this and I was not supportive of her. Its not that I chose my family... i still havent spoke to those members since the accident... but rather I was just again asking for a compromise. I understand the compromise was focused on my wants over hers, but I was only asking. Over the course of that month she felt hurt and by the end of the month I blocked my family members involved so she could see I am choosing her and never brought it back up. Again she felt I was not supportive of her, and that I chose my family over her.

She told me she values loyalty and that because I was not loyal to her, not supportive of her, that she was extremely unhappy when breaking up with me.

I just felt like I should be able to ask for compromises and not be vindicated for not supporting her.

I felt like she needed someone who would set 100% of their own wants or needs aside for her own.

She left me and removed me completely from her life, just as she did with the few friends she tried to make while with me in those years. She has 0 friends because of her feelings and I just feel like what she said about me is completely false. I would have undying support for her, yet my asking of compromise to her was unsupportive?

I feel like my ex was an adult child emotionally...

At 29:
She couldn't handle conflict.
She has a curfew and is scared to break it - she never slept over at my house.
She got a tattoo and wears makeup to cover it up around her parents.
She has 0 friends.
She never has owned a car and uses her parents.
When we lived together in college she feared her parents finding out, so when they would come over I would need to move all my stuff to my car.
It took her 7 years to finish her bachelor's because at first she was doing what her parents suggested. I suggested to follow her heart and her own passions and she switched it.
She would tell me that we cannot live together until we are married out of fear of her parents.
After being together for 6 years she feared her parents finding out about us having sex - she had an abortion because of her fear of them and us not being married.
She would blame others for her unhappiness and such.
She had to have it her way and if not she said she was hurt and felt unsupported.
She demanded things in an ultimatum type way and would say she was hurt if you didnt do them or even have an opinion against them.
She values loyalty to a 100% way and idealizes her expectations, if there not reached then you hurt her. Whether intentional or not, she was hurt and holds that in her mind.
With conflict, she would blame others rather then take her own blame.
Victim mentality.
She has had 2 relationships before ours, max 6 months, she grew up in a home school religious based home. I poured my heart into her and put her on a pedastal (not healthy I know...)

She left me blaming me, I was simply apologizing and asking to work on things with outside help (therapy). She told me she was unhappy and suicidal because of me and our relationship. She would tell me, If you loved me you would or wouldnt do... I asked to be friends, she agreed, then proceeded to tell me she couldn't a week later. Then completely removed me from any sphere of her life asking for no contact to heal. Again blaming me and victim mentality.

She seemed mature most of the time, except with her parents and conflict. She thinks that her ways are normal and its normal to be fearful of her parents opinion. She has 7 siblings and they all do similar things because they fear their father. They defy him and hide it out of fear.

I do love her deeply despite all of this. Because when things were not negative. They were amazing.

What is your take?

Do emotionally immature/adult children exes come back?

Is this fear of dissapointment with her parents, needing of idealized expectations, and lack of feeling secure and coming down on me say anything?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Lostpossum said:


> Do emotionally immature/adult children exes come back?


A better question is why you want an emotionally immature/adult child back? What can you do to get over her and fix your picker so you don’t end up in the same situation again?


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I'm with @ccpowerslave .....why would you want that emotionally immature adult child back? You'll be babysitting her, her feelings, her inability to manage conflict, her mommy/daddy issues for the rest of your life. SHE will be your full-time job. Why do you want that for yourself?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

My take is you are lucky to be rid of her because she is severely dysfunctional, she needs to learn the meaning of the word "supportive" because she's using it erroneously, and you should enroll in individual counseling to figure out why you wanted to stay with such a dysfunctional person.

You need to get yourself figured out, fast. It will be an ABSOLUTE turn off to any emotionally normal and healthy woman in your future to find out what you put up with in this relationship for so long, because she's going to know you have issues and want to steer clear of you. Emotionally healthy men don't stay with girlfriends like this. You have a lot of work to do.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Neither one of you is emotionally mature enough to have an adult relationship. Judging by your posts she has got some serious issues that need addressing, but lets talk about you....

Of course she wasn't happy!! Her use of the word non supportive to describe how you made her feel when she was busy with work was wrong. She should have told you she needed space. Throughout the relationship you behaved like a stage 5 clinger!!! This is such a turn off for both genders and something you need to fix ASAP.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I was starting to have a panic attack just trying to read the original post....

But all kidding aside, I could pick apart analyze, etc all of the circumstances you listed, but at the end of the day, no relationship should be nearly this hard.....None....period...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why didn't you continue with the first thread you started about this and answer questions posted on there?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Benbutton said:


> Neither one of you is emotionally mature enough to have an adult relationship. Judging by your posts she has got some serious issues that need addressing, but lets talk about you....
> 
> Of course she wasn't happy!! Her use of the word non supportive to describe how you made her feel when she was busy with work was wrong. She should have told you she needed space. Throughout the relationship you behaved like a stage 5 clinger!!! This is such a turn off for both genders and something you need to fix ASAP.


They saw each other 1 to 2 times a week for a few hours. They live 10 minutes apart. She only works a standard 40 hours a week. How on Earth is wanting to spend more time together a big ask? Why the heck should she need more SPACE and how was wanting to spend more time than that together a "stage 5 clinger"?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Is she from a different country or culture? The way you talk about her not wanting to disappoint her family sounds like they are from somewhere in Asia. 

I had a boyfriend once who alienated me from family and friends. He broke up with me and I struggled because I was left alone.

Thank goodness I realized he did me a favor by breaking up with me! I went back to my friends and family. I became better at picking men and I never ever let anyone alienate me from anyone who I love. 

You should feel thankful she broke up with you. Now you can find a better partner, someone who appreciates you and supports you.

Run from her and don'tn't look back!!


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Livvie said:


> They saw each other 1 to 2 times a week for a few hours. They live 10 minutes apart. She only works a standard 40 hours a week. How on Earth is wanting to spend more time together a big ask? Why the heck should she need more SPACE and how was wanting to spend more time than that together a "stage 5 clinger"?


Perhaps I was a bit harsh with calling op a "stage 5 clinger", codependent would have been a more appropriate term. 

It went from just about every single day to once or twice a week. It's clear she didn't want to spend time with him and neither did the family, yet he continued to beat that dead horse. He was much more than just clingy, he outright shaped his life around her and could not adjust to her life changes.

It has come to the point where both her and her family dont want him around and he still can't fathom why. I'm willing to bet we would hear a much different story from her.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Well, he should have terminated the relationship with a woman who is closing in on 30 years old, still lives with her parents, is ruled by her parents, and only wants to see him for a few hours a week.

By the time I was that age I had a professional job, a husband, a baby, and a house. 

A few hours a week she had to offer his is silly, people that age have whole lives together.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Possum, this chick simply has a low romantic interest in you and it will never get better. She's had you on the shelve with hand creams, moisturizers, analgesics on other substances chicks occasionally need and use on an "as needed" basis. When chicks say, "I'm leaving because you are not being supportive of me." she means, "I'm tired of you and bored with this relationship". Looking over your list of "The attributes of my ex and why I was stupid for tolerating them" you'll be thanking her for ditching you a few months down the road. 
Hey, if this chick can get away from her parents and meet you at your place for booty call a couple or three time a month, I'd go for it. Just don't spend any money on her or time hanging out.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Well, he should have terminated the relationship with a woman who is closing in on 30 years old, still lives with her parents, is ruled by her parents, and only wants to see him for a few hours a week.
> 
> By the time I was that age I had a professional job, a husband, a baby, and a house.
> 
> A few hours a week she had to offer his is silly, people that age have whole lives together.


I agree, that's why I said neither of them have the emotional maturity to have an adult relationship. She is not without fault. She should have been more upfront in explaining her wishes rather than acting like an 18 year old playing games.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This was all addressed in your other thread. 

She dumped you. 

You are basically just wanting us to ‘boo” her and pat you on the head and tell you how great you are and how wrong she is. 

But no matter how great you are or how wrong someone is to dump you, that is still their perogative and you are still dumped. 

The healthy and effective way to deal with this is to mourn it, cry in your pillow for a night or two, and then get out there and start working on yourself and living your own life. 

And I would also suggest seeing a counselor/therapist to help you develop some healthy coping skills and strategies.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Let her go.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

She might have problems but your just as bad if not worse for staying in that type of arrangement. You can talk about her all you like but you are your own problem..... a big one.


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## CoachWisch (Mar 6, 2021)

Lostpossum said:


> TLDR: My ex and I had no issues, then it all fell apart after an accident, her abortion, and a lack of spending time together this last year. She blames me for being unsupportive and says I was not there for her when she needed me.


Is it true you were 100% there?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*@Lostpossum 

I merged your two threads as it's better to have one thread on a topic. You will get better input that way.*


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Why are you blaming yourself? She has trust issues and that was the cause of your problem. Once you showed her a tiny weeny hint of being untrustworthy (which is very very human), she flipped. It's not your fault. You've done your best and you couldn't fix her. It happens, unfortunately. Try and recover from this. I believe your life will be much happier without her, eventually. I know you don't want to hear this, but it's for the best. Good luck!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your ex is a giant train wreck. You actually dodged a bullet by this ending. You need to get your own life together and hopefully down the road you can find a real life partner. This girl’s fear and dependence on her parents is completely unhealthy and toxic. No relationship should be as much work as this one was. I’m sorry you’re hurting but please try and get some perspective now that it’s over. Your entire future life would be nothing but drama. She is toxic and mentally unwell. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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