# How do I figure this out?? Help!



## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

So I posted a thread yesterday explaining my situation( My wife is having a mid life crisis ). My wife and I are having a lot of issues and for 2 days now I have hit the 180 hard. I have accepted that my wife wants to move on. She wants space and freedom etc. She spends all her time on her phone texting friends etc and we basically just live together. My problem is this:

If she wanted to leave she could very easily but she hasn't.

She still texts me throughout the day and I respond back but its very limited

I am doing the 180 hard and flat out and she is pretty much enjoying the space and freedom because I am no longer "pursuing" her.

She comes home today and gives me a kiss hello and then proceeds to have a long chat about all that is going on in her day and tells me her and her mother might be taking a holiday, I told her great, enjoy and that I am going out clubbing this weekend. I could see instantly she felt like she would be missing out ( we recently started going out dancing together and both enjoy it )

I then told her tonight that I was going out, she was like, "oh! Where?" So I said I was just going to the mall to just be out. I could see she was a little taken a back so I did say ( I hear you all groaning ) if you want to come with, you are welcome. She replied only if I want her to come with. So I decided to tell you come along. When we got there she said she wanted to look at clothes ( usually I follow like a little dog ). I told her later, I am going my way. I could see another glimpse of WTF? From her and off I went.

We are sitting having a coffee and I am smiling like a madman while typing this thread and for the first time she is jabbering to me and asking me who I am talking to. Usually I sit like an idiot while she texts others.

So my question is:

How do you think I am doing? ( I know its only 2 days )

Do you think she is sending mixed messages and maybe she just wants me to cool off my intensity? ( Read my previous thread My wife is having a mid life crisis from yesterday )

Really appreciate your thoughts guys and gals and thanks for the support and this community. You people are literally saving my life!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Tighten the 180 and don't respond to her text messages , in future say your going out and leave, inviting her along is not part of the deal . Seperate your finances , she pays half of all the bills and all of her holiday .

So far it looks good and she is reacting to your changes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> Tighten the 180 and don't respond to her text messages , in future say your going out and leave, inviting her along is not part of the deal . Seperate your finances , she pays half of all the bills and all of her holiday .
> 
> So far it looks good and she is reacting to your changes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well she is very rebellious, if I don't invite her along she will have a fit and pull away from me. This is what is making the 180 a little tricky because if I pursue her she freaks but if I ignore her then she pulls away almost as if to spite me? Its very tricky and that is what I am struggling with. I can't ignore her texts because she is initiating them and we do still live together and haven't actually seperated. The last time we did discuss anything we kind of agreed to take things slow and just see but she could have agreed to that just to stop my pleading etc. That was pre 180 but now I am trying to implement the 180 without ruining my chances of saving my relationship. I mean it says don't be nasty or cold, be aloof. So I am trying to do that without coming off nasty?? Very tricky
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

i dont know why you havent done MC.
I must say reading your posts it seems to me your wife knows what she wants. This is quite common to be 'different' at home and 'away'.
I doubt you will get her back with all your 'scheming'. She seems to be using you when she needs you.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

accept said:


> i dont know why you havent done MC.
> I must say reading your posts it seems to me your wife knows what she wants. This is quite common to be 'different' at home and 'away'.
> I doubt you will get her back with all your 'scheming'. She seems to be using you when she needs you.


Well I wouldn't call it scheming. I am trying to survive. I love her and have for my entire marriage held her as the center of my world, now that world is upside down and I am trying to hold myself together. The 180 is my way of keeping myself together, whether she comes back or not. I am awake to the reality that I have to grow as a person and become more and to handle this in a mature and responsible way to minimize the damage to myself, my kids and her. I am not scheming, I am trying to see through the fog and seeking advice.

She certainly appears to know what she wants but then why contact me all the time, why still live with me, why still kiss me, why still talk to me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You don't know how she's going to react until she reacts.

Don't invite her. LET HER THROW A FIT. This 180 isn't about getting her back. It's about becoming a better person/man who doesn't cater to every fit thrown by his wife.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

You didnt reply about the MC
Perhaps scheming is the wrong word.
Look you want her. She knows that. You will do nothing to upset her. She can do what she wants with you. This is screaming out from your posts. I dont think you are strong enough to get through this on your own.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

that_girl said:


> You don't know how she's going to react until she reacts.
> 
> Don't invite her. LET HER THROW A FIT. This 180 isn't about getting her back. It's about becoming a better person/man who doesn't cater to every fit thrown by his wife.


You are right, the 180 is about becoming a better person. I was just reading another thread here and I am of the opinion that if my wife does move on then I do wish her the best, no matter how much I want her back, and I hope she finds herself and becomes whole and happy. I am using this time to discover myself and learn about me.

She may be taking a few days with her mom to go on holiday as I mentioned and I will use that time to get out and have fun and connect with people. She seemed very surprised by that and I can see that she has noticed I am acting differently that my normal beg, plead pathetic self.

I understand within myself that no matter what, I have to become more, I have to grow, I have to live so that I can learn to appreciate things and enjoy myself. I will be happier and if she did come back or decide to work on our marriage then she would benefit as well from those changes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I can only suggest that you go out and have fun and connect with people before she leaves. Don't wait until she is away. Might have been what you did in the past.... only did things for yourself when she was away. Go have fun now, tonight.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

accept said:


> You didnt reply about the MC
> Perhaps scheming is the wrong word.
> Look you want her. She knows that. You will do nothing to upset her. She can do what she wants with you. This is screaming out from your posts. I dont think you are strong enough to get through this on your own.


No MC, I would do it but she won't. She believes in her judgements and she believes that there has been too much hurt and that I can't change so MC is probably a waste of time. She has stated that she doesn't want to be married anymore and needs to find herself.

I hear you, I should be stronger and no I don't believe I can do this alone and that's why I am talking with friends and you folks on this forum. This forum has provided me so much help so thank you for taking the time to share with me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

deejov said:


> I can only suggest that you go out and have fun and connect with people before she leaves. Don't wait until she is away. Might have been what you did in the past.... only did things for yourself when she was away. Go have fun now, tonight.


I have already started that and intend to carry on developing friends and activities outside of what I usually did in the past. Thanks for the advice
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Go to therapy for yourself though.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Go to therapy for yourself though.


I was actually going to do that. Just to help the whole healing process. I want to work through all my issues and my breakup and get those emotions out and dealt with so that I can move on with my life without leaving behind unresolved hurts
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Hello everyone, just got a wake up call this morning. My wife and I are on Blackberry and she posted a status update: "being single doesn't mean you know nothing about love, sometimes its wiser to fly solo than to be in a false relationship"

It was a gut punch and I am using it now to really galvanize my resolve to follow the 180. She wants out, I am moving on. There is nothing more I can do. Sometimes you just have to accept your lot in life and push on
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

I am pretty messed up today, although we have been going through this s**t for over 3 months now, today is really hard. She acts like I don't exist as her husband ( yeah I know ). Not hearing the person you adore tell you they love you is tough. I have changed considerably, I have shed all my issues she had yet it is too little too late. WTF, how do you walk out on your marriage!? How the f*** do you leave your family to find yourself?

Sorry about the freak out, today is very dark for me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

The only thing preventing me from imploding is the 180 but even so its f***ing mind bending to realize that every day we took for granted will change.

I will no longer make her tea in bed
I will no longer massage her feet at night ( she gets a foot massage every night )
I will no longer hear her breath next to me at night
I will no longer bath with her
I will never hear her tell me she loves me again
I will never feel her warm embrace
When I cry now, she won't be there for my tears

I am not having a great day :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

*I am doing the 180 hard and flat out and she is pretty much enjoying the space and freedom because I am no longer "pursuing" her.*
Are you sure you are doing the right thing. It doesnt sound like that to me.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Could you explain? Right now I am concentrating on the 180 to help myself primarily. I know she is enjoying not fighting and arguing over our relationship and having to answer questions about where she is and what's she is doing etc. 

We talk now but things are a little quiet in that we are living together and for all appearances we are together but obviously she is very hurt, confused and not sure of what she wants. She has said that to me. Perhaps she just needs space to process her thoughts, I don't know but I am 180 all the way. She contacts me and starts conversations with me, I respond etc but no pressure, no nothing. I say what I must and that's it. She still kisses me and what not but I start nothing. I do my own thing and she is curious about what I am doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

Speaking for myself. Unless my W feels guilty it doesnt work. She refused sex (as usual) and said she had a whole host of 'imaginary' illnesses. The next 'minute' she was suddenly called to a party and they had all 'miraculously' disappeared. I didn't say a thing about it.( When I married quite some time ago she had them daily. The doctor said she should stay overnight in hospital to find out whats wrong. She called a hospital doctor in the middle of the night from his bed, who gave her a real 'talking to' for calling him out for nothing. That cured her at the time.) But now she felt guilty alright. She knew she had to make it up to me like by offering me the next day (in a roundabout way). I pretended not to notice. My problem was that I couldnt keep up the 'silences' long enough. It did have some effect though for the future. She has given in on some of her crazy ideas, which once stuck in her head stay there for life. She has plenty and I keep on mentioning them in my posts. Maybe I should just make one just for that called crazy idea I have to put up with. She cant heat the kitchen/living room because all the food will go bad.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Ah c**p, I am sorry. We still have amazing sex but that is starting to dry up and is becoming more like, I have an itch would you scratch it please. I have noticed she talks more freely to me. For the past two months I have pushed like mad and cried and acted all the wrong ways. Before new year we had a massive blow out and I apologized and she hugged me and said we can try again but she can't promise me anything.

I think that she is in a MLC and she is assessing her life. We both got married very young and have always been parents or something but never had time for ourselves or eachother. Now add a heap of financial stress and I think it broke her and now she feels like her life has no value.

I don't know if she stays because of money but I know her family will easily help her on her feet if she wanted to go which means she is worried about me

Now that I 180 her she talks to me, she had to go out with her mother last night and instantly I sensed her dread because she felt I would as I always did have a fit because she is out and not with me etc etc. I barely looked up from the phone ( was on TAM ) gave her a polite smile and told her to drive safe. I could see utter bewilderment. She texted me the whole time she was out and actually got a little mad when I didn't respond. She wanted to know what the hell I was doing. When she got back I didn't ask a single question and I could sense her waiting for me to interrogate but nothing. I went to bed and she came as well, kissed me goodnight and that was that.

Today I dropped her at work ( we only have one car ) it was early and I left for an appointment. She txt me asking me where I was and I said at coffee. Her first response and a quick one was : with who? I said nobody so she then asked me why on earth didn't I just wait with her at her work. I changed the subject and ended the chat.

I know that she said to me I push too much and put too much pressure on our relationship and that we must just take things slow. She changes her mind a lot but for my sanity I am preparing for the worst.

She says in Feb she wants to go stay at her moms for a while to have space and learn to miss me again and to see if that's possible.

So she has said that we will try but she can't promise, then she doesn't love me enough to try, then she wants to seperate for a bit to learn to miss me. Its back and forth

I am on 180 mode and preparing as best I can for divorce and new men in her life. Things I know that can and probably will devastate me but WTF. Maybe with me not giving her a hard time and us coexisting quite peacefully and having a decent time together something will happen, I don't know. Who will ever understand a woman!?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vickyyy (Oct 28, 2011)

You are doing great.keep on applying 180 in your life.

show her that you are not doormat, you are not dependent on her to be happy.If she leaves, you can also move on with your life and can become a better person.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks vickyyy

My biggest regret is that she is an amazing woman and damn nigh the perfect wife. If only I woke up in time! I will battle to forgive myself that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

So she came home early today and slept because she wasn't feeling well. She said she had nausea so I went to buy her a sports drink to help rehydrate her which will help with the nausea. She asked me why would I go to all that trouble and I said matter of factly because I care. I know! I fell off the wagon in terms of 180. F**k!! Its hard when I have spent 12 years caring for her to switch it off. Anyways she got better and asked me who am I always talking too ( I.e. You guys ) and I told her I am part of a supportive online community of people experiencing relationship issues. This opened the door to talking about relationships and why people seperate or choose to stay in unhappy relationships. Anyways it started getting closer to home and I pulled the plug, but!! Then I turned around and said seeing as it no longer matters and you are dead intent on leaving me....Bang she said I mustnt ask the next question ( which was when are you going to leave ). I then asked her if I must drop the whole conversation and she said yes. I immediately got back onto my hardcore 180 and that was that. We have been talking arbitrary stuff the whole evening since.

So I know I f**ked up by going down that road but actually she opened that door. I didn't push and walked away straight away the minute she felt uncomfortable. I know she can see that is a huge difference ( HUGE ) because in the past I would hammer away like nobody you have seen. I could live in an interrogation room and most people would break under my relentless regime. So I know this is a massive shift and she can see it in bold lights. Whether that will have a long term affect on her is debatable but she is talking a little freely lately
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Your wife is probably attracted to the new PF and is wondering if the changes are for real. She's afraid of committing because she doesn't know if your changes are just window dressing or are the real thing. I'd like to share with you the following story:



marduk said:


> I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.
> 
> A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.
> 
> ...


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks Morituri! 

A much needed boost. The common thread coming through to me is that I have to up MY game and sort MY life out for ME. 

In truth I have neglected myself and I think to some varying extents we all do in relationships. The more I keep to myself, the more I do by myself, the more interested my wife seems.

It had occured to me Morituri that she was watching and waiting for the cracks in the "new man" to appear but for my sanity I am preparing for the worse. I find it easier to employ the 180 as well as protect my own feelings. I talk a little more to her and I still massage and tickle her at night and I show her affection but it is greatly reduced. I told her that I love her but understand she needs space and then walked away. I don't want her to get the impression I am overly hurt and pulling away, I want her to understand I am changing and that whilst I still love her, I respect her enough to be herself without conditions.

This will be a long road ahead either way but the focus now is myself. I think in hindsight people should focus on themselves first to be the very best they can be so they can be something special in anothers life. If we can fill our cup, we won't take from others but give.

Anyways just woke up this morning and she is back on her phone wearing out the keypad. I gave her a hug and carried on with my day. Will update later on what is what.

Have a great day TAM members and thanks for being there for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok so here is my morning update!

I sent her a message : I hope you are feeling better and that you have a good day, I <3 u

Her reply : Thank u u too must I come home cause I have a 1pm then a 2pm?

Me: If you want, I am at the mall getting supper if you want to meet there and have a Mozart

Them I thought no idiot take charge, be Alpha so I sent this:

Actually come, we will meet you at Mozarts

So I am feeling like that's good right? Then,,,

The holiday comes through! She and her mom are being picked up by car and going away overnight, she is overjoyed, I am so stoked she says so I respond:

I am happy for you, I think you and your mom deserve a treat and a break

But inside I am imploding! Ok my dear TAM friends, let's hear it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

New update. I encouraged her to go and enjoy her holiday. Not only her but her family are all shocked at my response, more like bewildered. They simply cannot believe their ears so my W confronted me and said what the hell is going on? Why am I being so nice? Why am I being so understanding? She says its freaking her out. I told her relax and offered her tea and she gladly accepted.

Then I dropped my own bombshell, she asked what would I do while she went away. Told her matter of factly I am going to our favorite nightclub because there is a huge party. Well! She was gutted. She just about cancelled the holiday and complained that she didn't want to miss out. I told her go and enjoy yourself and that I would send her pics ( I won't of course, when she goes its full steam NC 180 style )

So there you go?? Thought my TAM friends
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

I don't think that your wife truly wanted to leave you but simply wanted to punish the old, tyrannical PathFinder with threats of separation and divorce. If she did, she would have simply packed up her stuff and left. Her plan backfired and now she's worried that her 'sh!t tests' may have gone too far and pushed you into the arms of another woman - unless she knew better, your behavior is similar to that of a man having an affair. So now she is desperate to regain her place in your heart but is to prideful to tell you that she doesn't want a divorce and that she loves you. So what should you do? Kick the 180 up a notch by becoming like marduk, fearless. Exit the old and insecure PF, and enter the new and confident PF. Tough? You bet but well worth it because you end up gaining a peace and happiness that is independent of her actions.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Morituri, your insight as always is very welcome.

So I cooked and cleaned today, my wife went back and did her appointments and then txted me to tell me she was out with a friend. I didn't respond, then she said she was on her way, no response.

She gets home and I barely notice her because I am cooking. She doesn't even bother to hide it now and asks me straight out : what the hell is going on? Why am I being so aloof? I encourage her to go on her holiday, no chance! Now she wants to cancel it to go out with me!

Now before you all start clapping and high fiving, here's the kicker!

I am so pissed at her now! I mean here is a person that I would go to any lengths for, I love this woman more than oxygen and I am pissed off??

I am still in deep hardcore 180 mode. Probably the best 180 I have done so far and it is bugging the hell out of her but I should be elated because I know that I am changing into a much better person and I am actually really happy about that. I want to grow, I crave growth and development and becoming a better person and seeing my wife now bewildered, unsure and taking an interest in me is a huge plus BONUS that I should be bouncing over...

Instead I am f**king annoyed. Why? WTF!? What is going on here?

Just for kicks remember this is early 180 days, I do want my wife and I to reconcile ( but right now I am unsure??? And that is f**king freaky ) all I feel now is pissed off.

Oh and side note, this is all internal. She gets the very happy, confident and composed alpha man who now makes decisions, does his own thing, is aloof and mysterious but still treats her like gold.

I am very confused :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Resentment is toxic and will only lead to bitterness IF you allow it, so recognize this emotion when you experience it, isolate it and kill it. It is an enemy to your peace and happiness, and deserves to be terminated with extreme prejudice.

Here's something that could help you when you experience an resentment/anger attack.



> *The 3 Different Ways to Defuse Anger*
> 
> If you have tried to ignore anger in hopes it goes away, or allowed it to invade your life to the point that it defines you, I want you to try any or all of the following three methods for defusing anger. When you’re caught up in the post-affair, emotional maelstrom—you need a life buoy to cling to until you get to safety. These methods will help pull you safely from the turmoil you currently find yourself in to a place where you can once again feel solid ground beneath your feet.
> 
> ...


*Remember this. You are changing FOR YOUR benefit. FOR YOUR peace and happiness. Your wife just happens to be a beneficiary of it.*


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Heads up PathFinder, more man-up material coming your way.

Download and print a free copy of Dr Robert Glover's book by clicking on "*No More Mr Nice Guy*".


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks for that Morituri, I will be reading it now. We spent a quiet evening together and by quiet I mean I watched TV and she spent all her time on her phone.

The 180 is going to be easy for a while because I am hitting it hard as hell now.


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## Meatpuppet (Jan 2, 2012)

Pathfinder said:


> The only thing preventing me from imploding is the 180 but even so its f***ing mind bending to realize that every day we took for granted will change.
> 
> I will no longer make her tea in bed
> I will no longer massage her feet at night ( she gets a foot massage every night )
> ...


Path, I'm reading this at work and finding it hard to choke back my own tears. I 180'd up a few days ago and despite cultivating that tough exterior, we can't help but to look back at all the things we cherished (and maybe took for granted) about our spouses and realize they're all never going to happen again. 

For me, I find it hard to...

-Watch the Food Network (she got me into it - used to watch all the time, now I can't bear to go near the channel. So long, Triple D!) 

-Listen to about a quarter of the songs on my IPod, as we chose a lot of the music together

-Sleep; I found a hair on a pillow a few days ago and just lost it. 

I keep imagining our marriage as just us walking hand in hand, but for the last few "miles," I've been walking with a ghost of my former wife. Now I'm moving on alone and hoping the further I get down the road, the quicker the pain goes away. 

I said it before in other threads, but here it is again anyway: If you're a spiritual person, reacquaint yourself with God. I found it to be tremendously helpful. 

Good luck and God bless, brother...I'll pray for you :smthumbup:


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey Meatpuppet

I am sorry to hear that brother. I know how you feel. The worst thing to deal with is the fact that only now can we see what we had. That is tough to swallow. I keep reading threads by some really courageous people further down the road that have "survived" and picked themselves up and whilst I take my hat off to them, I am afraid of the day I wake up and she is no longer there beside me and I am ok with that. That is not what I signed up for. I signed up for life and I meant it. I will fight and fight and fight, I will change and do all the things that need to be done but when your partner throws in the towel, brother there is little that can be done. 

If you are following my thread then you know the weird s**t I am going through, I am actually in a limbo of not actually knowing if it is over because although she says it is and there is no hope she doesn't act it. She is still here and still talks and basically for all appearances we are fine except that she believes we are done?? She spent the whole night on her phone tonight ignoring me basically ( reverse 180?? ) and it hurts that she has a live beyond me that is so important that she could care less to say a word to me.

Here is what I say to you. At this time I know I need friends that can stand by me. People that I meet on TAM have been helping me a lot. Guys like Morituri are a huge plus to have in your corner and I am here for you brother. So no matter how f**ked up you are feeling, just remember TAM is here and we are in this together.

180 this thing sideways. Go nuts and focus on yourself. You probably might have forgotten how to do that so now focus your energy on yourself and healing. I am a nutter so going extreme isnt hard for me and I accept that.

Use your strength in God to help you. I will be honest, I am agnostic and this is a mute point for me but I accept and believe in the power of a persons faith. It is your tool so use it and use it well.

Lastly I say vent, I ramble along in this thread all day. ( As you can see ) this is my therapy because I realize it is important to voice these feelings and process them.

I know this is not what we both signed up for but who knows : it aint over till its over and life can be funny sometimes. Focus on you for now and let what will be...be


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Well Morituri you must be psychic!

So my W spent the evening chatting to this guy on the phone ( quick background : W is super friendly and everyone gravitates to her ) I am not threatened, he is just a friend. My issue is she spent the whole damn evening on the f**king phone. So eventually I roll over in bed to go to sleep and the tidal wave of rage hits ( oh I don't get angry, I get rage ) and now I want to rearrange the house, you know? Pick up a TV and send it into the kitchen via the wall, I am pissed. Really pissed!!

So I got up and followed that thread Morituri and distracted my anger by cleaning the kitchen. I supposed this unsettled my W because she knows my temper and the sight of me in deep, grim concentration with this cloud of don't f**k with me resonating off of me cleaning like a madmen must have sent many alarm bells going.

Not one word! She asked if she could help and I politely, cooley and softly replied no thank you. I finished and went to bed feeling no different except tired ( my anger takes days to subside, when I get pissed, not often, but when I do its bad ). My wife knew and could sense I was in my dark place but I could see she was uncertain about what the hell to do to diffuse me. She can't because I diffuse me now and it has nothing to do with her. She came to me and hugged me and kissed me ( she doesn't do that ).

Ok so at this point this thread is becoming reality TV because I post almost everything on here. So excuse me, this is my place to vent and grow and hopefully someone reading this will learn something like I did from other's posts.

Anger, distract it at all costs. Never vent it at your spouse! NEVER!! Feel your feelings in a constructive manner but like Morituris post : catch your anger, distract your anger.

My W and I avoided a huge fight, whilst my issue was not resolved my W now knows I can get angry, really angry and not hurt us with it. She saw up close I can process my anger and hurt without turning our house into a nasty war zone and that my friends is a HUGE step for a person!

BTW Mr Morituri Psychic, you don't perhaps know the lotto numbers? Thanks buddy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

PathFinder
:allhail:​
Great Job PathFinder. :smthumbup:

No my 'psychic' powers don't extend to lotto numbers. And if they did, do you think I would tell you?


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## Meatpuppet (Jan 2, 2012)

Isn't it ironic how we learn about all these great psychological strategies _after_ they're useful...

Actually, strike that...they _still will be_ useful - once we meet the people we deserve to be with.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

morituri said:


> No my 'psychic' powers don't extend to lotto numbers. And if they did, do you think I would tell you?


That's hardcore Morituri! 180ing me when it comes to lotto! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

So today is the day she leaves for her holiday. The plan is to drop her at work ( mothers house, they run a salon together ) and she will sleep over and go either alone or with mom and come back either Sat or Sun.

She stayed the morning and we lay in bed, she touched me and I made her breakfast in bed. We chatted about nothing and then it was time to pack. I ironed my clothes and ran her a bath and she comes to take over my ironing. So I said its fine I can iron my shirt, she said she will do it, I said in a polite calm voice that I can iron my own shirt and I will be quick so she can use the iron herself. 

BOOM!!!!

Did she get pissed! Don't ever do anything for me again she says. I calmly put my shirt aside and told her to use the iron and that I am not entertaining a fight, I will go bath and I left.

The first thing she ironed was my shirt and she was back to normal after that.

WTF! I mean seriously WTF! You are the one that wants out, you are the one that pushed me away, you are the one that decided we were not enough for you anymore, you were the one that walked out on our family and told me our kids will get over it! Now I get b**ed at and s**t on over a f**king shirt!? YOU CHOSE THIS! Don't make your problems my problems, F**K!!

So that's my morning folks. I have a wife that is hurt and confused. I want desperately to help her but PEOPLE, the only way you can help is to FIX YOURSELF! You cannot fix someone else when you are f**ked up. I am 180! It is my creed! I am looking after ME so I can be MORE.

Edit: she just invited me for coffee?? She has never done this.

I am going simply because I know her and she hurts easily and I don't want to hurt her anymore. She is the type that will go and touch the hot plate when you tell her not to. This is probably a bad idea but here is my thought:

I am going to lose her, I have and am preparing for that so I will take and enjoy whatever scrap I can get from her because I still adore and love her. Not because I feel she may change her mind, no, but to maybe for the last time enjoy sitting as a husband and wife and pretending that everything will be fine. I am gonna take that and enjoy it and then let it go.

:-( till later today my TAM brothers and sisters, your thought!! Come on guys, you know I wait like a junkie for you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok so this was hard and I am pretty broken now. Crying my eyes out and not in a good place. Here's what happened:

Went to coffee, she dragged it out as long as possible, took her to work and she saw my neck was a bit sore so she offered to rub it, I politely refused.

BOOM

She says: well f**k you then and proceeds to tear into me, why don't I need her anymore? I have moved on? I don't want her anymore? She is pissed!

I said to her, I love you, always have and I have given you all the space and freedom you wanted. You wanted out, so why complain now when I start moving on? You said we were over so why give me a hard time?

She tells me she is sorry she swore at me and that she is being an utter ***** and I must ignore her.

I say : what exactly do you want me to do?

She asked me to drop it, she doesn't want to talk about it so I dropped it and left. Never raised my voice once.

She is off on her holiday and I feel like s**t turned inside out! I am empty and broken f**ked!

I know I am going to limit her contact with me while she is away and I know her head will be turning like mad and very possibly a "big talk" is on the way.

TAM friends, I am down and out. Tap me out.

I am not mad but she is responding! She still loves me but is afraid of hurt and disappointment. Could I survive this forum and head over to reconciliation? Dare I believe such a thing and risk what sanity I have left??

What do you think and what would you do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Pathfinder said:


> Ok so this was hard and I am pretty broken now. Crying my eyes out and not in a good place. Here's what happened:
> 
> Went to coffee, she dragged it out as long as possible, took her to work and she saw my neck was a bit sore so she offered to rub it, I politely refused.
> 
> ...




STOP. Your fear of her outbursts is making it too comfortable for her to sit on the fence and it is putting you in excruciating pain.

But if you feel the need, you can write her a note - which she can read without you being present - with the following:

_"My heart has been broken ever since the day you told me that you no longer wanted to be with me, that you wanted out of our marriage. So I have begun the process of emotionally detaching from you, not out of spite, anger or bitterness, but to protect myself from further pain. As I said to you in the coffee shop, I have always loved you, still do. And as much as it hurts me to say this but the truth is, I don't trust you with my heart anymore."_

Afterwards, start implementing the 180 as it is written - no more breakfast in bed, or other pleasantries. You must begin to show her what life without you will be all about. If she doesn't like it, tough.

No more games. The purpose is to put the ball back on her side of the court. She was very vocal about wanting out, let her be very vocal about wanting back in.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Thank you for the genuine slap up side the head. You are a true friend Morituri! You are 100 % right and I have been stupid as hell today.

This is why I post, so people like you Morituri can smack a person properly when they are being stupid, like I am.

I will post her that message and take it from there.

Thanks brother! Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

So Morituri you will never believe this, I do the note and try to email it through, nothing! The email wont go through. WTF! I am serious! No BS, I know IT and this mail would not go through, how freaking weird is that.

So I just contacted her and said it out loud. Well to be honest it is all a blur. She maintains that we are in fact taking it one day at a time. We are not discussing separation or reconciliation. We are taking it one day at a time.

Well, that is as on the fence as you can get. I have learned a couple of phrases lately that could drive me to kill, you know, useless phrases that mean f**k all but carry serious weight:

"I love you but am not in love with you" - Are you f**king serious??

"Let's take it one day at a time" - yeah sure, that's what they say on death row too, how did that work out for you??

"I am confused" - Well no s**t

Anyways I wished her a great holiday blah blah blah and am not really interested in talking to her for a few days. 180 you have been summoned. She is onto the 180 and attacks it like a normal W would if you mentioned that really cute and friendly female co-worker. She doesnt like it when I ignore her but the reality folks is this in my opinion:

If you want a marriage then we work at it and we work together, this is not you get it all your way and I am your doormat...if you want to separate then I will get you some boxes. This limbo is not healthy for us because she is using it as manipulation to control me into fitting in with her. That is not love or respect. If you love someone and respect them then you want them for who they are and not what you can force them to be,


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Why not write on a piece of paper the following and stuff it inside an envelope with her name on it. Include your wedding ring/band inside as well.

"*If the time ever arrives when you want to be my wife again, let me know. Until then, here is my wedding ring.*"

The purpose of this action is to show her that you are no longer her husband until she clearly expresses a desire to be your wife again. She either is or she isn't. And since she can't decide, then you will decide for her.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Thank you Morituri for all your help, it is appreciated brother. I wonder if you will ever realize the impact you have had on not only me but others you have been kind enough to help?

I am done. Forget 180, forget marriage and forget everything. It is over. If someone cannot see what is in front of them then they do not deserve it.

She is out on holiday alone ( or maybe not?? ) she contacted me and told me so I asked her why didn't she invite me so she said because she didn't want me there. I was part of her stress.

Anyways Morituri, I am done now. Final straw. I am moving on and like you said, I WILL make the decision now that she refused to make.

People TALK...because one day you will shut out the "one" who is trying and eventually when you when the fog clears and you realize that you want that person, they will be gone.

Thank you TAM for all your help and support. If any of you need me I will be in the :

Life after Divorce 

forum.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

PathFinder. It is your life and you have every right to do with it as you see fit. If that includes divorce, then so be it. As a divorce survivor I must tell you the decision I made to divorce my loving, remorseful but cheating ex-wife was one of the most excruciatingly painful decisions of my life. I have to confess that as much as it was the right decision at the time - because of the trauma I experienced from her betrayal - there have been small moments in time when I've been haunted by the 'What ifs'. There is just no escaping the pain, PathFinder, not when you still have plenty of love for the woman who has been your companion in life. I would urge you to allow a few days to pass before you again consider the decision to divorce your wife. You may feel differently.

If you still want to post in the 'Life After Divorce' forum, why not ask one of the moderators below to move your thread to the 'Life After Divorce' forum? This way, people won't have the hassle of searching this thread to get to the beginning of your situation. Give it some thought.

Amplexor
Deejo 
827Aug
Leahdorus
mommy22
swedish
sweetpea


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Hello all, here is my update:

My wife came home from her holiday and like typical people we had a massive fight. After 3 hours of intense and animated discussion she told me she wants to work on our marriage. I suspended talking and we both decided we needed some distraction so we went out and partied up a storm in the night clubs.

I woke up this morning after consuming not a single drop of alcohol or any narcotics and set about bringing the house into order. Kids feed and animals sorted, house cleaned my wife and I sat down and agreed to talk maturely.

She admitted she resents me and has a lot of anger towards me. She hates been pushed or smothered. She wants freedom ( I do act very possessive ). She says she loves me but there is a lot of hurt. She was going to leave but last week ( the 180 week ) changed her mind about you I am or could be.

I told her I want clear lines of communication. I want affection and mostly I want to be respected ( I know people say you earn respect and I will earn it but by the same token if you chose to marry someone then you should respect that person and respect their feelings )

This has entered a reconciliation. Am I happy about that? You bet I am. I have scoured these threads and seen the devastation and it is horrifying. Are we out of the woods? F**k no! We have a lot of work to get through:

Here is our plan:

Rebuild our friendship ( Go back to basics and learn to have fun in each others presence again ). We recently started going out and clubbing. We both love the night life and the music and irrespective of our fights whenever we were in that environment we were both intensely caring of one another and protective over each other. This is what we are going to work on and build on.

We are both going to LISTEN to one another. I am a man and as such tend to not understand what a woman is saying. You know when you say, "Can I do this?" and she answers, "Sure, ok you can do that." when she actually said, "If you do that I am going to kick your a** something awful later!". Also part of LISTENING is actually respecting the persons point of view enough to get behind it even though we don't necessarily understand or agree with it. Sometimes a person when communicating wants your support and not your opinion.

To continue working on developing ourselves as individuals and to care enough about each other to help that person become the best they can.

I am no expert and a lot of this I will have to figure out along the way but we are both going to try while realizing this is going to be hard because a lot of water has gone under the bridge and we both have to forgive and move past it to rebuild for ourselves, for each other and for our children.

I will keep you updated but thanks to everyone that posted and offered advice, especially you Morituri. The biggest thing that helped was starting and following the 180. That gave me the strength to change because I had a game plan and it showed my wife that things can be different.

Talk soon


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

For what it's worth, I think her repeated outbursts before the holiday was her trying to create an huge argument before she left so that she could go away full of belly of entitlement and freedom to do whatever.

By staying focused and not engaging, you seriously undermined her approach and likely changed the nature of her holiday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> For what it's worth, I think her repeated outbursts before the holiday was her trying to create an huge argument before she left so that she could go away full of belly of entitlement and freedom to do whatever.
> 
> By staying focused and not engaging, you seriously undermined her approach and likely changed the nature of her holiday.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hello Shaggy

I have no doubt that there may be an element of truth in what you are saying. Be that as it may they I choose to focus on the future and the reality is that a persons actions will reveal their true intentions. For example:

I have stated that I am prepared to work on our marriage. I have continued giving her space and freedom and she has used it to spend her first day working on our marriage to go and tend to her mother who was very upset. This usually results in retail therapy that started this morning and is still ongoing and I am well into the evening. Yes she has contacted me periodically but that is obviously causing distress for me.

Now I am guarding against doing things to get things ( No more Mr Nice Guy eh Morituri ). In that I mean I am watching a behavioral pattern of mine that I am not saying go out and have fun but you had better reward me for giving to you. That is unhealthy

but

I am watching the fruit of her words and while it is very early in the game, I am very much on guard to see how this coming week or two she works on her marriage as she stated she wanted to. Will that mean she puts effort into spending time with me? Will she stop going on her phone every 2 seconds? Will she discuss our issues and ask me what she can do for me? etc etc. as I have done. I have looked at my behavior and what I am doing to harm our relationship and am working in depth to rectify those issues.

So whilst the holiday may have gone or may not have gone to plan, the issue now is the way forward and how each of us are going to respond to that commitment. Obviously I will be watching to see whether it was a paper thin talk the talk statement or if there was a depth to it.

The reality is I have done enough damage to have created a fair share of the c**p in our marriage. Really I have so I cant say I didn't see this coming or this is so unexpected etc. I have done my bit and acknowledge that and am repairing it as best I can. Likewise now she too must also look at what she has done and work on her stuff. TIME WILL REVEAL ALL and as such I am still in 180 mode and looking after ME. I am committed but under no illusions that this could fall like a paper house in a hurricane.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your 180 is working, but the next part is very tough because she will likely revert back to the old ways very very soon, and you need to be on your A game when she does.

She will also likely make big statements, followsd by half efforts. Do not hesitate to call her on this, especially if she tries to negotiate you down. Don't get mad as she clearly uses baiting as a way to control you and the situaution.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> She will also likely make big statements, followsd by half efforts. Do not hesitate to call her on this, especially if she tries to negotiate you down. Don't get mad as she clearly uses baiting as a way to control you and the situaution.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh the games people play with each other. I also have to consider and I think Morituri read this quite well that my W never truly wanted to leave me but used the threat as a way to force a reaction out of me. When she saw me changing she was encouraged but feels scared to trust the change. I am more inclined to agree with this as she has mentioned it yesterday when we were discussing our future. She has in fact mentioned numerous times over the past few weeks when I have complained about her behavior that she has had to deal with me for years and I have only been acting like this for a few months. Now reading between the lines there a lot of people will see what they see but what I hear her telling me is that she wants us ( especially a better me ) and she can see I have changed but I obviously still get angry and stuff with all that is going on and when that happens she fears that my "change" is a mask that is slipping off to reveal the same old person.

Now I realize fully I have to earn that trust in her again and I have no problem with that and I realize that there will be times she tests me and challenges me. That will always happen in any relationship as people butt into each other and tussle over issues. The thing now is to use those moments as opportunities to show her I have indeed changed for the better and it is a lasting change. That is from my side and hopefully given time she will come to trust me more and open more of herself to me and so we may grow closer. Early days yet...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

PathFinder I hope that you have read *marduk's man-up story*. I consider it the Holy Grail of man-up and a must read for every man, single or married.

In your case I believe point #7 is a essential:



> 7. *Fight different*. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.


Never, ever argue with your wife. It never solves anything and only proves to her that you don't have control over yourself. You've done a great job so far and being human you are bound to relapse, in the beginning anyway, into your old ways. Don't let that discourage you from getting up, dusting yourself up and riding that 180 degrees rules wild horse again.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

From Wayne M Levine M.A. author of *Hold On To Your N.U.Ts* (Non-Negotiable, Unalterable Terms)



> *8 Tools That’ll Change Your Life*
> If you’re tired of coming up short as a man, father, husband or leader, these eight BetterMen Tools will help you to change your relationships and your life.
> 
> The fixes may not happen overnight. Embrace these BetterMen Tools and get the support you need to bring these Tools to your relationships. With commitment, hard work and the courage to change, you’ll be amazed at the man you’ve become.
> ...


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Hello all

Been a while since I updated this thread, nine days apparently. So here is what is happening:

Our marriage has taken a complete 180. For the past seven days at least we have been inseparable. It is actually weird. We communicate, we have fun, we text each other all the time, we have sex, we go out, it is almost perfect.

My wife told me today that she loves me and that she loves spending time with me. In particular we spend evenings together talking and talking about all sorts of things. I can't even tell you but it is wonderful.

Here is some of the things I have focused on :

I have been reading up on the Alpha Male and leaning to cultivate my Alpha male again. I think this was a huge part of things in me becoming a Beta male.

I look after myself, I exercise a lot, I drink tonnes of water, I eat healthy, I shave daily and have really taking on the grooming department. I make sure I wear good smart clothes all the time. I make sure I look and smell perfect all the time, I have started get a muscle tone back in my body etc. In essence I am presenting a very desirable package to her.

I still carry out a modified 180. I look after myself and tend to my own happiness and do not try to burden her. I don't push her or pursue her. I act confident, upbeat and strong all the time irrespective of how I feel, especially if I am around company with her and I notice the people gravitate towards me ( I can be very funny and entertaining in a group situation ) which makes her even more interested in me.

I am putting as much effort into being a partner as I do into building myself as a person.

Another big area of stress for us is finances and I have really tackled and overcome some big obstacles there which has also made me standout in her eyes as someone capable, assertive, ambitious and powerful.

The end results and although this is still a work in progress is that the last 7 days especially have been amazing. She is giving me everything I always wanted ( affection, attention ) without me even voicing it. The most amazing thing now is that we laugh, I make her laugh a lot and she loves that and we have been laughing plenty lately. Last night we had a riot and all we did was sit at home talking and we were splitting it.

Today i was sick and not feeling very well and she mentioned something or other and I had a moment of weakness and I asked her if her statement meant that we may still have issues etc. She looked at me and said that she doesn't have a single issue with me and that moment passed and the rest of the evening was total bliss.

Almost sounds too good to be true but I don't care, i am taking it one day at a time and enjoying every second of being married to the love of my life. To think that less than 2 weeks ago this was such a different story.

i want to personally thank Morituri for your amazing and insightful guidance in helping me save my marriage and my family. I also want to thank every person that took the time to post and share their advice, experiences and perspectives. Each of you helped me and my family enjoy a much better and fulfilling life. Thank you.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

What a great update PathFinder! :smthumbup:

All the advice in the world, no matter how excellent it is, isn't worth a pile of sh!t if it is not followed.

For changes to become permanent, a conscientious effort must be made to stop before opening ones mouth, remember the lessons and then apply them. Eventually, they will become second nature and a permanent part of who you are.

Congratulations to you sir for having the courage to change and to your wife for being smart enough to appreciate the man she married.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks Morituri!

You have left an indelible impression on me and I consider myself fortunate to have found this forum and received advice from it. I will never forget the road ahead and will always strive to improve myself and will never make the mistake of inviting complacency into my life again.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Congrats, Pathfinder! I'm inspired by your story and experience. We should all be so lucky!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

canguy66 said:


> Congrats, Pathfinder! I'm inspired by your story and experience. We should all be so lucky!


Lucky? Nah! There is no such thing as luck. PathFinder knew that he had to change for his benefit not his wife's. His wife's initial desire to separate/divorce was simply the catalyst for his awakening 

Even if his wife had chosen to divorce him, the changes he made to himself would have served him greatly in his post-divorce life. Peace of mind and freedom from resentment and bitterness would be his emotional and spiritual wealth.

He now knows that his happiness lies in his own two hands, and not in what his wife says or does. His wife now knows this and fears that he might choose to leave her if he wants to. She, like most women, is attracted by her man's inner strength and confidence. He has become the man he wants to be and the man she wants to be with.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I see what you mean. It didn't happen by accident. 

I am working on the same things in my situation, but it's to rediscover my sense of self and strength, and to be comfortable in my own skin. In my case, my stbxw is moving out in 2 weeks from today and is not interested in working on the relationship at all. At this point, she wants to be alone, work on her own issues and decide if her career takes priority in her life. To her, this is separation/break, but to me it's a clear choice and decision in her part. Time for me to man-up, take control of my life, deal with setbacks and move on. Easier said than done on some days (like yesterday), but that's the goal.

Again, very happy for you Pathfinder. Keep doing the right things for you, and I'm sure it will benefit your relationship and keep it strong.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Just re-read my entire thread again and it was fascinating to see my thoughts and to read your advice. The one point that stood out for me was anger. As I said in a previous post ( Click Here ) I used to be a ball of rage and when I exploded it was pretty devastating.

I spent 5 years been trained in martial arts, already had a lot of anger issues and worked in a hostile environment so when I say losing my temper sent my family running in terror, it is no joke. Not something I am very proud of. I am actually very saddened by that highly immature mentality but I am happy to say that is behind me.

That post stood out for me because we had a "fight" tonight. My W had organized a job for our son ( my stepson but I raised him so I refer to him as my son ) with her cousin. Anyways he contacted me to tell me the details and she exploded at me because she felt he went over her head. She went off her head and told me it had nothing to do with me because I wasn't his father etc. All very hurtful and I initially was hurt but then came the wall of Rage but this time I didn't allow it to unleash and destroy everything around me. I distracted it and shelved it to deal with later. I never got the chance because she came to me and apologized.

She could see I was hurt and angry. I resonate anger when I am pissed off and generally look like I could tear a Grizzly in half but she no longer fears it. She knows I am in control and this is a great sign that we can "fight" and not destroy eachother like we always did.

So re-reading my thread has been very interesting in terms of gauging my changes and growth. Thanks once again to all who helped me


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

canguy66 said:


> I see what you mean. It didn't happen by accident.
> 
> I am working on the same things in my situation, but it's to rediscover my sense of self and strength, and to be comfortable in my own skin. In my case, my stbxw is moving out in 2 weeks from today and is not interested in working on the relationship at all. At this point, she wants to be alone, work on her own issues and decide if her career takes priority in her life. To her, this is separation/break, but to me it's a clear choice and decision in her part. Time for me to man-up, take control of my life, deal with setbacks and move on. Easier said than done on some days (like yesterday), but that's the goal.
> 
> Again, very happy for you Pathfinder. Keep doing the right things for you, and I'm sure it will benefit your relationship and keep it strong.


It kinda feels weird talking to you here in my thread but also I am glad that you have my story as I have had yours.

I don't know how your story will be written, mine is turning out like a little fairytale and all I can guess was that Morituri read it right when he said that my wife didn't actually want to leave me but she used the threat to try and provoke some type of reaction. In that regard I am very fortunate because I had a clear opportunity to save my marriage and luckily I took a number of right steps that have laid a strong platform for us to start over and be better than we were before.

That is why I said to you that you would be guiding me as you were moving ahead of me as it appears that your situation my very well be better off long term with a split. I know that may sound terrible but reading what I have about your wife she clearly isn't interested and even now will not acknowledge the tremendous steps you have taken and accomplished. Your weight loss alone is an amazing achievement.

Having said all that though, I can tell that you have had global changes in your thinking as well as your approach to life and relationships and that is laying a powerful foundation for your future. You WILL find happiness and WHEN IT DOES happen you will never look back.

I will always be proud of the progress you have made


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## stuckmick (Dec 10, 2011)

Knowing that every situation is different, yours sounds a lot like mine. I too have been implementing the changes that you expressed, so far with limited results. Its only been two months since the ILYBNILWY speech. We are going to marriage counseling, tonight in fact, our 4th session. My W seems to be "on the fence" as yours was. She has stated in counseling she sees the changes in me but doesnt know if she can trust me to keep up with them, that is why she is reluctant to show me affection and "lead me on" into thinking things are perfect, she is afraid I will backslide into old habits and behaviors....but like you, I have done a 180 in word and action and have no intention of backsliding but getting her to see that is the problem. My wife is also 7 months out from having a baby, so I believe depression is also playing a part in her distorted thinking, but again, its getting her to see that...anyway its nice to know that there is hope out there. Keep up the good work and the best of luck....


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Hello Stuckmick

I am very humbled that my thread has helped give you hope. All I can say to you is that when a woman gets hurt it can be very hard for them to forgive or forget. Just be patient

That is my advice to you, be patient and persevere because it is worth it. My wife just couldn't bring herself to see the changes or accept them and still she test me. Last night she was in a very bad mood due to a number of external factors and she exploded and took me head off.

I simply ignored her, walked away and when she had finished ranting went to her and said calmly and softly : "Don't treat me like that. I didn't create this issue so you have no right to disrespect me and treat me like that."

I walked away and didn't say a word more. She came to me a while later and apologized profusely. 

My point is that I have to maintain the standard, maintain the change even if she stays the same. She still tries to test me and push me to search for those cracks and that is welcomed now because every time this happens it is my opportunity to demonstrate the change without having to advertise it. 

So slowly but surely she is learning to accept this NEW man in her life but this is a process and we all have to understand that although WE have made these massive changes in ourselves, others around us may not notice and will continue to paint us with the same old brush. I earned that and so I accept I must earn a new reputation.

Just be patient. Time is a great at revealing the truth. Your key to showing her you have changed is to consistently rise to those test day after day and demonstrate the NEW you and then more importantly to survive the post match interview ( i.e. don't go running around with a checklist of all the good you have done to validate yourself ) Your actions will speak much more loudly than you think and believe me woman notice EVERY detail! 

I PROMISE YOU she has noticed! I GUARANTEE SHE HAS NOTICED. Just be patient and in time she will learn to trust this new man.

All I can say is that it is worth it so persevere


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## stuckmick (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Its much appreciated....


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## HKET4511 (Jan 19, 2012)

My husband walked out on our marriage and family because he "wasn't happy". Said "it's me, not you". Told me he was unhappy when he was with me and unhappy when he was away from me. Went from telling me he loved me one day and the next he took it all away and left while our son and I slept. It's been 5 months for me and he hardly talks to me and when he does, its mean and angry. I have dark days all the time. I feel for you. He acts like I don't exist and has cut me out of his life completely. I feel like my soul has been ripped in two.


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

HKET4511 That is a terrible story and awful thing to go through. I would suggest starting your own thread and getting people to comment on it to help you


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