# 33 Years Married - Man Needs Help Please



## George36

Hi All,

Never thought that I would be on this type of site but glad I found it. I have put this in this section because, truthfully, I don't have much faith in men and their opinions when it comes to matter s likes this.

In a nutshell, I am 63 and wife is 59. We got married in Feb 1985. Honestly, we have led a story book life. At 37, I retired from the Navy and my wife did 16 years of service. We have been retired completely since 1991 and have travelled the world. Not many places that we have not visited overseas and in the U.S. We have two wonderful daughters and our first grandchild just turned one. We are in pretty good health even having run a few marathons. We have plenty of money, time and assets to do anything that we want. 

Should be perfect. Ladies, my pain comes from my wife not being able to provide loving support back to me. She readily admits that she is not good at "sappy" things. Love you to me comes only when I tell her that I love her first. I wake up each morning with my first goal being to make sure that she has the best day possible. I consistently applaud her for her looks, body and smart as well as what she does for me. Very little back. 

Ladies, I understand that it is old fashion to believe that a woman should provide the support discussed by.happywivesclub - 6 Ways to Love Your Husband...Even Better | Happy Wives Club. I provide the support to her and much more. Have listed the six below as I cannot put the link.

THese are the six ways:

1. Adore Him Unconditionally. Don’t wait to adore him until he’s nicer, makes more money or is more affectionate with you. The key is to love him as he–even if he’s not 100 percent adorable.

2. Adore Him For What He Does. Take notice of what he does and make it a big deal. Tell him and be specific: “You are such a great dad; our kids just love you.” “You did an awesome job fixing the garage door. “

3. Adore Him Physically. If you don’t adore him in this area, who will? This is something only the two of you share. You don’t have to wait until you’re in bed together; whisper a compliment at breakfast: “I was thinking about last night and how great…” You get the idea.

4. Adore Him By Listening. Men like and need their wife’s attention. When you listen well you will become his confidant and gain greater access to what he struggles with and needs encouragement about.

5. Adore Him By Putting Him First. You can’t tell your 3 year old to wait while you give your husband a back massage. But, you can find creative ways to carve out time for him. 

6. Adore Him So Others Can See It and Hear It. A compliment given at home is one thing; a compliment given in front of others is magnified big time. So the next time you’re out with your husband with friends or family, build him up in front of everyone.

Not sure what to do? Would rather die than leave her. Not sure how many more years that I can give so completely for very little show of appreciation.

Thanks for reading. Another problem is that I do not have anyone to talk to about this. I have talked with my wife extensively over the last couple of years but have not found anyone outside. I do understand that I am an old guy that wants his ego stroked and my wife to adore me. I guess I seek this because, every day since 1985, I have treated here like a Queen and put her on a pedestal like the Bible says to do.

Appreciate any thoughts you may have. Thanks again.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Have you read 5 love languages? Your wife may not understand your way of receiving love. 

What does your wife say when you talk about it with her? I think some people have a hard time with loving words. They feel it but have a hard time expressing it. 

Sometimes it's easier to write, if she were here I'd suggest writing love notes to you to start getting more comfortable with the words and expressing. 

Have you shown that to your wife? I think it's good advice for every woman.


----------



## itsontherocks

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Have you read 5 love languages? Your wife may not understand your way of receiving love.
> 
> What does your wife say when you talk about it with her? I think some people have a hard time with loving words. They feel it but have a hard time expressing it.
> 
> Sometimes it's easier to write, if she were here I'd suggest writing love notes to you to start getting more comfortable with the words and expressing.
> 
> Have you shown that to your wife? I think it's good advice for every woman.


Some women are just stone cold non-affectionate.


----------



## anchorwatch

Take a look at this... A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


----------



## itsontherocks

George36 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Never thought that I would be on this type of site but glad I found it. I have put this in this section because, truthfully, I don't have much faith in men and their opinions when it comes to matter s likes this.
> 
> In a nutshell, I am 63 and wife is 59. We got married in Feb 1985. Honestly, we have led a story book life. At 37, I retired from the Navy and my wife did 16 years of service. We have been retired completely since 1991 and have travelled the world. Not many places that we have not visited overseas and in the U.S. We have two wonderful daughters and our first grandchild just turned one. We are in pretty good health even having run a few marathons. We have plenty of money, time and assets to do anything that we want.
> 
> Should be perfect. Ladies, my pain comes from my wife not being able to provide loving support back to me. She readily admits that she is not good at "sappy" things. Love you to me comes only when I tell her that I love her first. I wake up each morning with my first goal being to make sure that she has the best day possible. I consistently applaud her for her looks, body and smart as well as what she does for me. Very little back.
> 
> Ladies, I understand that it is old fashion to believe that a woman should provide the support discussed by.happywivesclub - 6 Ways to Love Your Husband...Even Better | Happy Wives Club. I provide the support to her and much more. Have listed the six below as I cannot put the link.
> 
> THese are the six ways:
> 
> 1. Adore Him Unconditionally. Don’t wait to adore him until he’s nicer, makes more money or is more affectionate with you. The key is to love him as he–even if he’s not 100 percent adorable.
> 
> 2. Adore Him For What He Does. Take notice of what he does and make it a big deal. Tell him and be specific: “You are such a great dad; our kids just love you.” “You did an awesome job fixing the garage door. “
> 
> 3. Adore Him Physically. If you don’t adore him in this area, who will? This is something only the two of you share. You don’t have to wait until you’re in bed together; whisper a compliment at breakfast: “I was thinking about last night and how great…” You get the idea.
> 
> 4. Adore Him By Listening. Men like and need their wife’s attention. When you listen well you will become his confidant and gain greater access to what he struggles with and needs encouragement about.
> 
> 5. Adore Him By Putting Him First. You can’t tell your 3 year old to wait while you give your husband a back massage. But, you can find creative ways to carve out time for him.
> 
> 6. Adore Him So Others Can See It and Hear It. A compliment given at home is one thing; a compliment given in front of others is magnified big time. So the next time you’re out with your husband with friends or family, build him up in front of everyone.
> 
> Not sure what to do? Would rather die than leave her. Not sure how many more years that I can give so completely for very little show of appreciation.
> 
> Thanks for reading. Another problem is that I do not have anyone to talk to about this. I have talked with my wife extensively over the last couple of years but have not found anyone outside. I do understand that I am an old guy that wants his ego stroked and my wife to adore me. I guess I seek this because, every day since 1985, I have treated here like a Queen and put her on a pedestal like the Bible says to do.
> 
> Appreciate any thoughts you may have. Thanks again.


Have you thought to discuss your issues with her in a non-confrontational manner? Perhaps, over lunch in a public area?


----------



## George36

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Have you read 5 love languages? Your wife may not understand your way of receiving love.
> 
> Yes, we both have a copy of the book and it was helpful to me more than my wife. IF you have the book, these were our profile scores: me/wife: A- 4,3 B-10/7 C-0/6 D-7/7 E-9/7
> 
> What does your wife say when you talk about it with her? I think some people have a hard time with loving words. They feel it but have a hard time expressing it.
> 
> She says that she is sorry and will try to do better. Do not want to force her to do anything but I need support.
> 
> Sometimes it's easier to write, if she were here I'd suggest writing love notes to you to start getting more comfortable with the words and expressing.
> 
> Will give this a try. I have asked her to keep notes to assist her in assisting me. She made many notes in the 5 Love Languages book but did not follow up.
> 
> Have you shown that to your wife? I think it's good advice for every woman.


Thanks for your reply. I made some notes above in quote.

Thanks, again.


----------



## George36

itsontherocks said:


> Have you thought to discuss your issues with her in a non-confrontational manner? Perhaps, over lunch in a public area?


Thanks for your response. We talk each time we have a flare-up. She understand my needs but cannot "stroke" my ego as many would say. I wish that I did not need the affirmation but I do. I have made it my life's work to make her happy, content and safe.


----------



## itsontherocks

George36 said:


> Thanks for your response. We talk each time we have a flare-up. She understand my needs but cannot "stroke" my ego as many would say. I wish that I did not need the affirmation but I do. I have made it my life's work to make her happy, content and safe.


Stroking one's ego and supporting your spouse are two completely different things. Trust when I say I've been there. Do you have a Pastor or someone that you can trust which can help both of you communicate better? Marriage counseling doesn't work, so I'd stay as far away as possible from that. However, if you're religious, that might help a bit.


----------



## lifeistooshort

To be honest you sound kind of needy. Not all women are capable of endlessly stroking a guy's ego.

I can't, and my hb initiates a lot of the affection. But you know what? I love it, I love him, and I generally respond. He doesn't take it personally because there are many ways I show my love, and he doesn't need his ego stroked.

I find that attractive, and the fact that he doesn't look for ego stroking makes me want to do it sometimes. 

Sounds like you have a great marriage..... don't mess it up with neediness. Many women find it a turnoff. 

Have you tried asking your wife for small things she might be able to handle? Like maybe she can tell you she loves you from time to time? Or maybe she can tell you that you look nice once in a while? Those are things I can handle.


----------



## George36

lifeistooshort said:


> To be honest you sound kind of needy. Not all women are capable of endlessly stroking a guy's ego.
> 
> I can't, and my hb initiates a lot of the affection. But you know what? I love it, I love him, and I generally respond. He doesn't take it personally because there are many ways I show my love, and he doesn't need his ego stroked.
> 
> I find that attractive, and the fact that he doesn't look for ego stroking makes me want to do it sometimes.
> 
> Sounds like you have a great marriage..... don't mess it up with neediness. Many women find it a turnoff.
> 
> Have you tried asking your wife for small things she might be able to handle? Like maybe she can tell you she loves you from time to time? Or maybe she can tell you that you look nice once in a while? Those are things I can handle.


Thanks for your response. I did figure that my postings could be taken in different ways. Ego and neediness, perhaps, were improper words but i was not able to express it differently. 

Can a man not want his wife to verbally and physically promote him without being deemed overly needy? Are my feelings unimportant because I love and adore her?


----------



## Openminded

Of course you can want and need those things. However, if your wife has never provided them -- despite knowing their importance to you -- I'm not sure she ever will. Especially since she knows you can't imagine leaving her. Where does that leave you? Married to someone who doesn't feel she can meet your needs. A very common situation, unfortunately.


----------



## *Deidre*

Does she show you in different ways, and maybe isn't the verbal type? You've been together this long and you ''adore'' her, so there must be things she does that bring you great happiness, otherwise you wouldn't have lasted this long.

I recently got married in May, and my husband and I do compliment one another a lot, and I'm always expressing gratitude to him, and he does the same. It's all still very new though, but hopefully, we never lose that quality. That said, has your wife always been this way, and maybe there's something else going on inside of yourself that now you're seeking validation from her? That can happen, sometimes.


----------



## Spicy

Welcome to TAM. We hope you get some help and stick around to lend others a hand with your extensive experience as a successful couple. 

Every couple has areas that aren't exactly what we want/need. Try to reflect back on if she ever was the way you need her to be or not. Things that aren't part of a persons natural make up generally don't change. You can continue to remind her how much it would mean to you if she could do it more. She loves you and she probably does try. This may just have to be the one area in your life that isn't a perfect match.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Welcome to the club. I've been married 25 years and have never had any of that. Not once. Never (seriously) has she given me a compliment. Not even when I graduated college, got my cpa, or when I made partner. Not even a congratulations. Some women are givers. Others are takers. Just how it is. 

If you need affirmation you'll just have to seek it elsewhere. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Satya

You are so busy fulfilling her needs, but you're neglecting to insist yours are met as well and you wonder why you're unsatisfied. 

A good, healthy relationship requires effort from both sides. 

She sounds like a kept woman, from the way you describe. Do you ever go do something for yourself, like a men's fishing weekend for instance? 

You are so enmeshed with your happiness being a direct result of your wife's satisfaction and that, to me anyway, is just not how it works. 

If having your needs met means you tell her what you need from her (I.E greater appreciation, affection, etc.), then do this. She's no mind reader. She needs to be told by you. 

Then, if she can't produce, then it's possible she's just incapable of these things, and then you must decide for yourself if these needs are negotiable or non-negotiable and take it from there. 

She can't appreciate what's constantly in her face. Sometimes scarcity helps with that. Sometimes.


----------



## Marc878

A good relationship needs to be 50/50. Scale back to your half only and start living for yourself. It's not up to her to make you happy.


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
I have a differing opinion than most. I do not see your need for validation as needy nor clingy any more than I see your need to eat and breath as such. As sentient beings we have needs that must fulfill the cognitive just as much as our physical needs must fulfill the physical. The cognitive cannot subsist in a vacuum and remain healthy any more than the physical can go hungry continually and not suffer degradation. However, based on your level of cognition, your W may not be able to fulfill those needs.

If she is lesser developed cognitively then she will most probably not even recognize your "needs". To her they are non existent and therefore unimportant. In all probability she does not possess the ability to realize this. This is the case in my own marriage and, sadly, in many many others as well. It is delusional for us to expect them to give that which they cannot even comprehend. I do know the overwhelming feeling of frustration that this causes and must admit that I still struggle with it daily. Those who do not understand this need may indeed perceive it as "needy" but to those who do, it is maddening that the person you have chosen to invest so heavily in refuses to reciprocate.

You must realize however, that it is most likely not a choice but rather a limitation of their abilities and that to expect change is to be perpetually disappointed. Unfortunately this is most often the case so you must either accept it and deal with the lack or try and find someone with whom you are more evenly developed. The chasm of this disparity is unbreachable. I regret you finding yourself here but you are not alone, small consolation but all I can offer.


----------



## SunCMars

lifeistooshort said:


> To be honest you sound kind of needy. Not all women are capable of endlessly stroking a guy's ego.
> 
> I can't, and my hb initiates a lot of the affection. But you know what? I love it, I love him, and I generally respond. He doesn't take it personally because there are many ways I show my love, and he doesn't need his ego stroked.
> 
> I find that attractive, and the fact that he doesn't look for ego stroking makes me want to do it sometimes.
> 
> Sounds like you have a great marriage..... don't mess it up with neediness. Many women find it a turnoff.
> 
> Have you tried asking your wife for small things she might be able to handle? Like maybe she can tell you she loves you from time to time? Or maybe she can tell you that you look nice once in a while? Those are things I can handle.


I read all the reply posts, most of them are good.

This one is the best. 

LifeIsTooShort could be your DW's sister. If not in fact, certainly in spirit.


----------



## George36

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> I have a differing opinion than most. I do not see your need for validation as needy nor clingy any more than I see your need to eat and breath as such. As sentient beings we have needs that must fulfill the cognitive just as much as our physical needs must fulfill the physical. The cognitive cannot subsist in a vacuum and remain healthy any more than the physical can go hungry continually and not suffer degradation. However, based on your level of cognition, your W may not be able to fulfill those needs.
> 
> If she is lesser developed cognitively then she will most probably not even recognize your "needs". To her they are non existent and therefore unimportant. In all probability she does not possess the ability to realize this. This is the case in my own marriage and, sadly, in many many others as well. It is delusional for us to expect them to give that which they cannot even comprehend. I do know the overwhelming feeling of frustration that this causes and must admit that I still struggle with it daily. Those who do not understand this need may indeed perceive it as "needy" but to those who do, it is maddening that the person you have chosen to invest so heavily in refuses to reciprocate.
> 
> You must realize however, that it is most likely not a choice but rather a limitation of their abilities and that to expect change is to be perpetually disappointed. Unfortunately this is most often the case so you must either accept it and deal with the lack or try and find someone with whom you are more evenly developed. The chasm of this disparity is unbreachable. I regret you finding yourself here but you are not alone, small consolation but all I can offer.


This is perfect and is fully on point. My wife has read this thread and believes that this is us. Now that we realize that this may be in her "genes", we can move forward and handle it the way that we would handle a physical problem. This epiphany has settled me and I greatly appreciate your post.

Thank you.


----------



## George36

SunCMars said:


> I read all the reply posts, most of them are good.
> 
> This one is the best.
> 
> LifeIsTooShort could be your DW's sister. If not in fact, certainly in spirit.


The absolute best part of LifeIsTooShort's post is the "Sounds like you have a great marriage. Don't mess it up with neediness."
This is the equivalent of a saying I used to rely on: Don't make a mountain out of a mole hole. Before reacting, think whether the concern will be remembered next week, next month or next year. Think before making a mountain out for a mole hole. 

This is a mole hole.

Thanks


----------



## George36

Thanks for all the replies. Taken all together, we feel we have turned a corner and have an open road ahead of us. Thanks all on this site and the owners for operating this site. I will contribute more in the future.

I wanted to give thanks to my wife for our great marriage and lives. I posted the below in another thread and I wanted to post it here just to show that 100% of my physical needs are being met and about 95% of my mental needs. We can live with that.

THANKS ALL

"Imho, a marriage needs dependency upon each. Having been married 33 years, we servived because we were dependant upon each other in "contracted" ways. For those of you that watch Big Bang, the comedy Tv show, you probably know about Sheldon and Amy's girlfriend agreement. 

Before we got married, we agreed to two, somewhat simple, dependency:

- She would be my Queen and i would treat her like royalty. She would never want for anything in life and we would travel the world.

- Being oversexed myself, she would make sure that I want for nothing when it comes to sex.

Think of the agreement as a prenuptial. 33 years and we have travelled the world and U.S. and she HAS been treated like royalty. Wanted for nothing. Me, she has kept her side of the bargain. One or another form of sex daily and many days multiple times. Not bragging as having a high libido is NOT good at times.

Not saying that this is a panacea for marriage but others that have followed our example have benefit greatly. Having an agreed dependency may feel uncomfortable but, when you marry, you are co-dependent automatically so why not agree to what you both need."


----------



## SunCMars

Part of being high desire , HD, is generally being, overly nervous, overly fidgety.

Being nervous naturally, without regard to sex. Like @KrisAmiss. 

And having sex, good, or not so good, takes your mind off your immediate concerns.

It becomes a diversion, a relief valve that has as a side effect, sexual release. And it is seductive and habit forming. Men become slaves to this, women become a-dik-tive.

The sex releases chemicals that drop your legs out from beneath you. Causes you to fold up like a poked sow bug. 

And women curl their toes.


----------



## *Deidre*

George36 said:


> Thanks for all the replies. Taken all together, we feel we have turned a corner and have an open road ahead of us. Thanks all on this site and the owners for operating this site. I will contribute more in the future.
> 
> I wanted to give thanks to my wife for our great marriage and lives. I posted the below in another thread and I wanted to post it here just to show that 100% of my physical needs are being met and about 95% of my mental needs. We can live with that.
> 
> THANKS ALL
> 
> "Imho, a marriage needs dependency upon each. Having been married 33 years, we servived because we were dependant upon each other in "contracted" ways. For those of you that watch Big Bang, the comedy Tv show, you probably know about Sheldon and Amy's girlfriend agreement.
> 
> Before we got married, we agreed to two, somewhat simple, dependency:
> 
> - She would be my Queen and i would treat her like royalty. She would never want for anything in life and we would travel the world.
> 
> - Being oversexed myself, she would make sure that I want for nothing when it comes to sex.
> 
> Think of the agreement as a prenuptial. 33 years and we have travelled the world and U.S. and she HAS been treated like royalty. Wanted for nothing. Me, she has kept her side of the bargain. One or another form of sex daily and many days multiple times. Not bragging as having a high libido is NOT good at times.
> 
> Not saying that this is a panacea for marriage but others that have followed our example have benefit greatly. Having an agreed dependency may feel uncomfortable but, when you marry, you are co-dependent automatically so why not agree to what you both need."


Do you believe that your wife is responsible for your happiness, though? My mom sees marriage as you do, I recently got married in May, and she and I see things a little differently. I see marriage as a partnership, but my husband isn't responsible for my entire happiness, and I'm not responsible for his. 

Where you post above that 95% of your mental needs are met, do you think that your wife should be responsible for 100% of your mental needs? Or are you speaking just in a relationship, as needs go, etc?


----------



## msrv23

I can relate to the OP in some way as romantic expression is important to me. However my H has never been the expressive type, he was more of doing things and spending time together as sign of love. Over the years I have understood this and it's his way of showing love, so I felt less insecure and more and more loved.

Sometimes it's just how each of us are. The love languages gives some insights as to what each person needs.

If a need is really important then a spouse can try to meet it. For the person we love we make an effort to satisfy their needs by learning to understand it. Although sometimes it's important that the other side makes effort to understand and accept that we work in the way we work and sometimes we just can't get it easily.


----------



## preity

*i was like ur wife once upon a time.*

i also behaved like ur wife in one of my relationship. my bf was very handsome , caring, romantic ,affectionate but not once i told him. i was young and stupid. in my heart i always knew he is the best, but ..........................i never tried to tell him how handsome he looks. how much i admire him , infact i used to show just opposite of what i felt, i ignored him, took him for granted,..........but i have no idea why i did that, when he left me i realised what i did wrong.
i guess its like when one chases other tends to run away,
u two have lived such a wonderful life together, do not put unneccesary strain on ur relationship with such demands, u dont need approval of ur wife to be a man, look at ur life , how great it was, 
i am sure she admires u very much , but still never going to tell u so( if it has been like that always)

be romantic be a lover, and also involve in some social work to keep ur mind off of such thoughts


----------



## George36

*Deidre* said:


> Do you believe that your wife is responsible for your happiness, though?
> 
> Absolutely not. My wife and daughters would tell you that, over the decades, I have consistently told them to search for happiness from within. No one can control my happiness from outside. I believe that we control our own happiness by the way we treat others and the environment that we allow ourselves to live in.
> 
> My mom sees marriage as you do, I recently got married in May, and she and I see things a little differently. I see marriage as a partnership, but my husband isn't responsible for my entire happiness, and I'm not responsible for his.
> 
> The word "entire" makes it possible to agree with you. If I had put down percentage, I would say that 80% is my responsibility. Another's 15% would be my wife's love and care for me. The final 5% would be the verbalizing. Most time spent in life is interpretating of stimuli that we encounter daily. I am a "glass half full" thinker. Being a "half empty" makes life difficulty.
> 
> Where you post above that 95% of your mental needs are met, do you think that your wife should be responsible for 100% of your mental needs. Or are you speaking just in a relationship, as needs go, etc?


I AGREE with the partnership comment. LIfe changes as you get older and you look at things much differently. At the end of day, happiness with a partner is what most of us want.

THanks or the conversation.


----------



## lifeistooshort

George, a woman who's having that much sex with you after 33 years loves you.

A lot.


----------



## George36

lifeistooshort said:


> George, a woman who's having that much sex with you after 33 years loves you.
> 
> A lot.


Thanks for the thought and I agree wholeheartedly. I will strive to make sure that I remember that. Btw, your post brought a smile to my wife.

Great site.


----------



## john117

Let me be a bit more frank.

If you retired in 1991 and have money to travel the world, after only working for a relatively short amount of time, in a rather structured environment, chances are you didn't get much affirmation from work. As an Army brat myself I don't recall the top brass showering my father with praise. But it didn't bother him.

So, you may have a bit of an affirmation deficit. Most men tend to focus on work as the standard affirmation method. Or college. Or kids. Or all of the above. 

To be honest, being the ADHD that I am, not doing anything for decades would drive me nuts. My father retired from the Army at 55, went into politics for another couple decades, built a church, and in his 70s became an official in our village. He worked till 85. He didn't see the world, but he could hardly take three steps before people would express their gratitude for pulling this string or that.

Likewise, I'm in high stakes product design. I get my kicks from helping design or patent cool stuff. I don't need my wife to offer any words of affirmation. The US Patent Office has done that 

So..... could it be yourself, and your wife, would like to see you do something more "meaningful" than travel to Machu Picchu? In terms of changing people's lives?


----------



## George36

*Re: i was like ur wife once upon a time.*



preity said:


> i also behaved like ur wife in one of my relationship. my bf was very handsome , caring, romantic ,affectionate but not once i told him. i was young and stupid. in my heart i always knew he is the best, but ..........................i never tried to tell him how handsome he looks. how much i admire him , infact i used to show just opposite of what i felt, i ignored him, took him for granted,..........but i have no idea why i did that, when he left me i realised what i did wrong.
> i guess its like when one chases other tends to run away,
> u two have lived such a wonderful life together, do not put unneccesary strain on ur relationship with such demands, u dont need approval of ur wife to be a man, look at ur life , how great it was,
> i am sure she admires u very much , but still never going to tell u so( if it has been like that always)
> 
> be romantic be a lover, and also involve in some social work to keep ur mind off of such thoughts


I am so sorry for your loss. Please realize that life gives you opportunities to reset and do away with regrets of the past. This is my second marriage and clearly indicates that, if I can find happiness, you can find it too. Please put yourself back out there.

Thanks for your kind words on my situation.


----------



## SunCMars

*Re: i was like ur wife once upon a time.*



preity said:


> i also behaved like ur wife in one of my relationship. my bf was very handsome , caring, romantic ,affectionate but not once i told him. i was young and stupid. in my heart i always knew he is the best, but ..........................i never tried to tell him how handsome he looks. how much i admire him , infact i used to show just opposite of what i felt, i ignored him, took him for granted,..........but i have no idea why i did that, when he left me i realised what i did wrong.
> i guess its like when one chases other tends to run away,
> u two have lived such a wonderful life together, do not put unneccesary strain on ur relationship with such demands, u dont need approval of ur wife to be a man, look at ur life , how great it was,
> i am sure she admires u very much , but still never going to tell u so( if it has been like that always)
> 
> be romantic be a lover, and also involve in some social work to keep ur mind off of such thoughts


Ah, yes.

The one that got away.

Till the day you die he holds a substantial place in your heart.

Some past loves will always look good, always smell good [in your mind]. When you go up the male cologne aisle...you smell him again.
The good ones will always keep you company, when you get lonely. And when you get horny.

Never admit this.....never.


----------



## Deperatedwoman

You should talk to her , maybe she does not understand how you feel for this


----------



## George36

Hi,

Unfortunately, I have to keep posting to try to maintain my sanity. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.

Seems like my wife and I tried to cover up where we were at with previous posts. It does not seem that it was aloofness or just not able to show appreciation but a strong need in her for independence and resentments. She tells me that she does not why but just needs independence. She tells me she loves me and wants to be with me but her demeanor and actions change daily as to what she truly wants. 

The original post included the sex part. She has been wonderful over the years and, if we never have sex again, I will have had more sex in my lifetime than probably 100 men. Lol. She agrees to continue to provide sex but I do not want to have sex with her knowing what she has told me this year. Does not feel right and I do not want to do any harm. She tells me that she has lost interest in sex but will still do it. She tells me that she was abused by a Priest 40 years ago. She has previously told me that she was sexually abused by one of her brothers while young. She has been a sexual dynamo for the past 35 years but, I believe, her past has come back to haunt her. I know this can happen.

She does not like it at all when I refuse her initiating sex as that is what she agreed decades ago to forever provide. What do I do? Have sex and feel bad that I might be causing harm? Give up sex to keep my wife? This is one of the biggest problems but not all of them.

She does not know why she needs independence and I can see that it is destroying her also. But, she cannot stop herself. She has gone to counseling and Doctor to try to figure it out but no answers. She wishes that it would go away but it won’t. We separated for a month early this year and she, quickly, came to realize that loneliness can be devastating and we got back together. I know that she loves me but does not seem to be able to get over her independence drive.

We decided that she would go back to Minnesota for a month beginning December 5 to be with her Mom. She explained all to her 89 year old Mom and was upset when her Mom told her she was acting stupid and needed to fix herself. It was pretty harsh but, still, independence. We have talked and her independence seems to come down to the below list.

List of desires:

1. Independence to make decisions and do things that she wants.

2. Reading time of what and whatever she desires. Romance novels, Trump, chaos, Facebook, drama from relatives, etc, etc.

3. Work out time and length of whatever she desires.

4. Limited time with grandchildren and, certainly, no intensive daycare or preschool.

(We had our second grandchild born in September of this year)

5. The ability to decide for herself what her daily actions will be.

6. Community connection.

7. Ability to watch whatever she wants, whenever she wants on television to include shows and the chaos of the federal government and Trump.

8. The desire to place her family first above me and our relationship. Shown by my trip to Thailand and her immersion in her vacation and family’s drama while ignoring the need to work on us. Plus, her trip to Minnesota resulting in her “enjoying family” as an excuse for not working on us.

9. To have me serve her and treat her the way that I have for over 35 years.

10. To live in this house and have the life that she had while I was in Thailand.

In return, she offers the following:

1. To cook and shop for food for us.

2. To clean for us

3. To do chores for us

4. To provide sex while I feel bad 

What am I supposed to do? We talked about living together but with separate lives. We talked about separating but being best friends. 

Right now, the plan seems to be that she will return early January and we will stay together for 27 days before we fly to Spain for a seven day vacation that she won earlier this year on The Price is Right show. Then, she will separate February 15th. No divorce is planned and money is not an issue at all.

Appreciate any thoughts. It has done me well to just type this. Thanks.


----------



## Prodigal

George36 said:


> Unfortunately, I have to keep posting to try to maintain my sanity.
> 
> 8. The desire to *place her family first above me and our relationship*. Shown by my trip to Thailand and her immersion in her vacation and family’s drama while ignoring the need to work on us. Plus, her trip to Minnesota resulting in her “enjoying family” as an excuse for not working on us.
> 
> 9. To have me serve her and treat her the way that I have for over 35 years.
> 
> 10. To live in this house and have the life that she had while I was in Thailand.
> 
> In return, she offers the following:
> 
> 1. To cook and shop for food for us.
> 
> 2. To clean for us
> 
> 3. To do chores for us
> 
> 4. To provide sex while I feel bad



^^THIS^^ stood out to me. In your original post, you discussed how your need for affection wasn't being met. Now your wife responds with a list of demands that sound pretty ridiculous to me. She'll provide "services" for you in return for you allowing her to put you on the back burner while she makes her family her top priority.

Friend, this is NOT a marriage. This is an arrangement where you get the short end of the stick and your needs are pretty much thrown under the bus. If you decide to stay, the fine. Personally, I'd be running for the nearest divorce attorney … immediately followed by finding my long-lost balls. JMO.


----------



## Andy1001

Her Mom is right.
She is being stupid.
And you are enabling her.
Time to put your foot down.
That’s all I have to say on the subject.


----------



## Betrayedone

She is not interested in being married anymore.........I would run for the exit as I have lived this situation before and it sucked.


----------



## Template 2

Hello, George!

I am sorry for the difficulties you are experiencing. Marriage is definitely a challenge. I went back and read your initial post and then your update and I had a couple questions.

In your initial post, you indicated that you woke up every morning with the goal of making your wife's day the very best. What kind of things did/do you do to accomplish that? How involved in her daily activities are/were you?

The reason I am asking that is the nature of her "independence" demands. She is asking to read what and when she wants. Do you make suggestions as to what she should be reading? She wants to schedule her workouts when and for how long she wants. Are you involved in her working out? Is her appearance very important to you? She wants the ability to schedule her day the way she wants. Do you usually schedule her day for her? She is obviously interested in politics and perhaps does not hold the same views as you. Do you try to steer her to a different view?

From her list and her statement somewhere in the past that she harbors some resentment, I am wondering if she feels you might be overly involved in her day, her life, her freedoms. She may be feeling smothered. You may be goal oriented to make her day the best ever, but she may feel that you are controlling her. 

I could be off base here. However, if she is not currently allowed to do the simple things she is asking for in her list, perhaps you are working too hard on her day to day routine in the name of promoting her happiness. Most of the things she is asking for are things that any person in a marriage should be able to do (read a book, work out as they want, enjoy politics). The ones that involve family are "couple" items and perhaps some compromise would be in order.


----------



## George36

Template,

Thanks for the questions. In answering them, I might find some answers about her. I have made notes below. I did try to give and overview that covered everything. Thanks, again.




Template 2 said:


> Hello, George!
> 
> I am sorry for the difficulties you are experiencing. Marriage is definitely a challenge. I went back and read your initial post and then your update and I had a couple questions.
> 
> In your initial post, you indicated that you woke up every morning with the goal of making your wife's day the very best. What kind of things did/do you do to accomplish that? How involved in her daily activities are/were you?
> 
> 
> 
> “For the first 10 years of marriage, we were both in the Navy and that dictated our schedule. The last 25 years, we have been together 24/7. I felt my part, each morning, was to ask her what she would like to do. For instance, if she was tired, I would take our two kids out to Seaworld and the beach for 12 hours. I did this many times over the years. Basically, I always made sure that she had time for working out, reading, private time and, absolutely, everything that she wanted.
> 
> She would mention a country she would like to visit. I would make arrangements within the next week or so. This included trips to Amsterdam, Germany, Israel, Thailand, Costa Rica, Brazil and repeats to many of them. We drove around this country together visiting anything that she wanted to see. Her mentioning ANYTHING she wanted was like a command from my Queen.
> 
> Honestly, she has independence now but she also has me. Is it me? She will be able to do all the above with family as money is not an issue. Is it the sex part? She says she loves me and enjoys “servicing” me.
> 
> 
> 
> The reason I am asking that is the nature of her "independence" demands. She is asking to read what and when she wants. Do you make suggestions as to what she should be reading? She wants to schedule her workouts when and for how long she wants. Are you involved in her working out? Is her appearance very important to you? She wants the ability to schedule her day the way she wants. Do you usually schedule her day for her? She is obviously interested in politics and perhaps does not hold the same views as you. Do you try to steer her to a different view?
> 
> 
> 
> “I do not even know what she reads or watches. I only ask her to keep the negatives of the world out of the house. For some reason, at 64, I cannot handle the chaos that we are going through and politics just saddens me too much.”
> 
> From her list and her statement somewhere in the past that she harbors some resentment, I am wondering if she feels you might be overly involved in her day, her life, her freedoms. She may be feeling smothered. You may be goal oriented to make her day the best ever, but she may feel that you are controlling her.
> 
> I could be off base here. However, if she is not currently allowed to do the simple things she is asking for in her list, perhaps you are working too hard on her day to day routine in the name of promoting her happiness. Most of the things she is asking for are things that any person in a marriage should be able to do (read a book, work out as they want, enjoy politics). The ones that involve family are "couple" items and perhaps some compromise would be in order.


----------



## happiness27

George36 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Never thought that I would be on this type of site but glad I found it. I have put this in this section because, truthfully, I don't have much faith in men and their opinions when it comes to matter s likes this.
> 
> 
> Appreciate any thoughts you may have. Thanks again.


I think she sounds like she's going through a bit of a crisis.


----------



## jlg07

"1. To cook and shop for food for us.

2. To clean for us

3. To do chores for us

4. To provide sex while I feel bad "

You can get this from a maid service and an occasional visit to the Bunny Ranch -- this is NOT a marriage. YOU have to worship her, do everything she wants from you, and she will buy groceries. How nice of her. She gets to live a life that SHE wants, and you get to wait for the few minutes when she will clean your house to be around her. Just WOW. Entitled much?

I read where she was abused -- she REALLY needs to get counseling, and if the counseling she did resulted in THIS, she needs a new counselor.

Also, why does she resent YOU? For taking care of her, as you put it, "like a Queen"? For having a comfortable life? For taking her travelling whenever she wants? OR does she resent you just because you are around?

VERY sorry you are in this situation, but you probably have a closer relationship with friends than her.


----------



## Mr.Married

George: Do you hold yourself accountable for any of this? Enabling, pedestal placing, etc. etc.

When you place someone so high above yourself they will eventually agree with you.


----------



## [email protected]

Unless I missed it, it doesn't look like George36 has been to either MC or IC. She takes him for granted. Well, I hate to say it, bit I will. I'd bet she has other interests.


----------



## VladDracul

George my man, you're the carrier of the of what turned your wife into a cross between a maid, personal shopper, and vampire, when all you really want is a Stepford wife programmed to pretend she cares. You say she's will to offer up sex when you want it. Why not just tell her to throw in a few compliment and adorations like you mentioned back in your first post and she got a deal. 
Here's the bottom line all boiled down for you Dawg. Youre not a challenge and women like a man who's a challenge. As a result of your mismanagement of the marriage, her romantic interest in you is in the crapper. Based on what you're saying however about having more sex than any one of 100 other men, she's been good at in the sack even with the casual comment that the ceiling needs painting. Her latest demands shows its time for her to up the ante for quid pro quo running, cleaning, and giving it up to you. That's a lot of work there buddy.


----------



## sokillme

You can't do anything about her, only she can change. What you have control over is your reaction to her actions. I suggest your best course of action is to detach so you can reassure yourself that your life can be fine, even happy without her. I am sure that is not the answer you wanted to hear but it's really the only true answer. You can't make her want to be with you, but you are also not stuck with just her. 

I suggest you divorce and start dating or at least doing activities with people your own age who knows maybe you will find someone who fits the needs that she hasn't for all these years. Your not dead. 

With your wife's history it's no wonder all of this has been hard for you. It makes you wonder if there is anything else you don't know. Usually people who are sexually abused when young don't have stable relationships with out doing some hard work. Doesn't sound like your marriage was all that great, just a lot of sex which was probably a product at least in part of her abuse. Often women who are abused at a young age tend to relate to men and themselves in an unhealthy sexual way. They see much of their worth related to sex. You might want to do some reading about that. 

Again you can't control her, stop trying. It only makes you desperate and more unhappy. Take back your agency. Grieve your relationship as you must, and then get on with your life without her. The truth is all relationships end at some time anyway. Seems like yours just ended before you expected it to.


----------



## MEM2020

George,

In the modern world - very very few people are able to be completely unfiltered the way that you are. Your willingness to say what is true, regardless of how difficult it might be - is an incredible strength.

Believe it or not - I think your best possible move is to step back and give your lovely wife some room to figure out what she wants. I know this is painful for you, and don’t mean to minimize that difficulty. In my experience there is nothing more powerful than saying: I love you enough to set you free if that truly is what you want.

But that doesn’t work if you are constantly bombarding her with questions. You need to let her go and in doing so let her decide the pace of interaction between you. 

You are clearly a good person and I wish you well....




George36 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Unfortunately, I have to keep posting to try to maintain my sanity. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
> 
> Seems like my wife and I tried to cover up where we were at with previous posts. It does not seem that it was aloofness or just not able to show appreciation but a strong need in her for independence and resentments. She tells me that she does not why but just needs independence. She tells me she loves me and wants to be with me but her demeanor and actions change daily as to what she truly wants.
> 
> The original post included the sex part. She has been wonderful over the years and, if we never have sex again, I will have had more sex in my lifetime than probably 100 men. Lol. She agrees to continue to provide sex but I do not want to have sex with her knowing what she has told me this year. Does not feel right and I do not want to do any harm. She tells me that she has lost interest in sex but will still do it. She tells me that she was abused by a Priest 40 years ago. She has previously told me that she was sexually abused by one of her brothers while young. She has been a sexual dynamo for the past 35 years but, I believe, her past has come back to haunt her. I know this can happen.
> 
> She does not like it at all when I refuse her initiating sex as that is what she agreed decades ago to forever provide. What do I do? Have sex and feel bad that I might be causing harm? Give up sex to keep my wife? This is one of the biggest problems but not all of them.
> 
> She does not know why she needs independence and I can see that it is destroying her also. But, she cannot stop herself. She has gone to counseling and Doctor to try to figure it out but no answers. She wishes that it would go away but it won’t. We separated for a month early this year and she, quickly, came to realize that loneliness can be devastating and we got back together. I know that she loves me but does not seem to be able to get over her independence drive.
> 
> We decided that she would go back to Minnesota for a month beginning December 5 to be with her Mom. She explained all to her 89 year old Mom and was upset when her Mom told her she was acting stupid and needed to fix herself. It was pretty harsh but, still, independence. We have talked and her independence seems to come down to the below list.
> 
> List of desires:
> 
> 1. Independence to make decisions and do things that she wants.
> 
> 2. Reading time of what and whatever she desires. Romance novels, Trump, chaos, Facebook, drama from relatives, etc, etc.
> 
> 3. Work out time and length of whatever she desires.
> 
> 4. Limited time with grandchildren and, certainly, no intensive daycare or preschool.
> 
> (We had our second grandchild born in September of this year)
> 
> 5. The ability to decide for herself what her daily actions will be.
> 
> 6. Community connection.
> 
> 7. Ability to watch whatever she wants, whenever she wants on television to include shows and the chaos of the federal government and Trump.
> 
> 8. The desire to place her family first above me and our relationship. Shown by my trip to Thailand and her immersion in her vacation and family’s drama while ignoring the need to work on us. Plus, her trip to Minnesota resulting in her “enjoying family” as an excuse for not working on us.
> 
> 9. To have me serve her and treat her the way that I have for over 35 years.
> 
> 10. To live in this house and have the life that she had while I was in Thailand.
> 
> In return, she offers the following:
> 
> 1. To cook and shop for food for us.
> 
> 2. To clean for us
> 
> 3. To do chores for us
> 
> 4. To provide sex while I feel bad
> 
> What am I supposed to do? We talked about living together but with separate lives. We talked about separating but being best friends.
> 
> Right now, the plan seems to be that she will return early January and we will stay together for 27 days before we fly to Spain for a seven day vacation that she won earlier this year on The Price is Right show. Then, she will separate February 15th. No divorce is planned and money is not an issue at all.
> 
> Appreciate any thoughts. It has done me well to just type this. Thanks.


----------



## Diana7

Its weird that she thinks she craves independence, but when she had it she came running back as she couldn't cope. 
Either she does or she doesn't. What she is offering you is a sort of friends with benefits scenario, live together as house mates with sex when you want it. She can do exactly what she likes but wants you there in case she gets lonely. 

I think that you may need to allow her her independence, one of you move out, for a longer period this time, and let her see that its not all its cracked up to be. 

I do wonder if she doesn't want you as a husband, but doesn't want you free in case you met someone else and she is then alone.


----------



## Lostinthought61

George let's face it you are married a selfish woman, i suspect you did not see that with your traveling and raising a family but that selfishness was always there, but is worse is that you seem to link your happiness to her, that old adage "happy wife happy life" seems to be your mantra...which has left you with codependency issues. you need therapy, and you need to learn slowly to pull from her. You need to lead to lead a separate life so that hopefully she will come around but act as if she won't. Create a bucket list for just yourself...


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

George36 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Unfortunately, I have to keep posting to try to maintain my sanity. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
> 
> Seems like my wife and I tried to cover up where we were at with previous posts. It does not seem that it was aloofness or just not able to show appreciation but a strong need in her for independence and resentments. She tells me that she does not why but just needs independence. She tells me she loves me and wants to be with me but her demeanor and actions change daily as to what she truly wants.
> 
> The original post included the sex part. She has been wonderful over the years and, if we never have sex again, I will have had more sex in my lifetime than probably 100 men. Lol. She agrees to continue to provide sex but I do not want to have sex with her knowing what she has told me this year. Does not feel right and I do not want to do any harm. She tells me that she has lost interest in sex but will still do it. She tells me that she was abused by a Priest 40 years ago. She has previously told me that she was sexually abused by one of her brothers while young. She has been a sexual dynamo for the past 35 years but, I believe, her past has come back to haunt her. I know this can happen.
> 
> She does not like it at all when I refuse her initiating sex as that is what she agreed decades ago to forever provide. What do I do? Have sex and feel bad that I might be causing harm? Give up sex to keep my wife? This is one of the biggest problems but not all of them.
> 
> She does not know why she needs independence and I can see that it is destroying her also. But, she cannot stop herself. She has gone to counseling and Doctor to try to figure it out but no answers. She wishes that it would go away but it won’t. We separated for a month early this year and she, quickly, came to realize that loneliness can be devastating and we got back together. I know that she loves me but does not seem to be able to get over her independence drive.
> 
> We decided that she would go back to Minnesota for a month beginning December 5 to be with her Mom. She explained all to her 89 year old Mom and was upset when her Mom told her she was acting stupid and needed to fix herself. It was pretty harsh but, still, independence. We have talked and her independence seems to come down to the below list.
> 
> List of desires:
> 
> 1. Independence to make decisions and do things that she wants.
> 
> 2. Reading time of what and whatever she desires. Romance novels, Trump, chaos, Facebook, drama from relatives, etc, etc.
> 
> 3. Work out time and length of whatever she desires.
> 
> 4. Limited time with grandchildren and, certainly, no intensive daycare or preschool.
> 
> (We had our second grandchild born in September of this year)
> 
> 5. The ability to decide for herself what her daily actions will be.
> 
> 6. Community connection.
> 
> 7. Ability to watch whatever she wants, whenever she wants on television to include shows and the chaos of the federal government and Trump.
> 
> 8. The desire to place her family first above me and our relationship. Shown by my trip to Thailand and her immersion in her vacation and family’s drama while ignoring the need to work on us. Plus, her trip to Minnesota resulting in her “enjoying family” as an excuse for not working on us.
> 
> 9. To have me serve her and treat her the way that I have for over 35 years.
> 
> 10. To live in this house and have the life that she had while I was in Thailand.
> 
> In return, she offers the following:
> 
> 1. To cook and shop for food for us.
> 
> 2. To clean for us
> 
> 3. To do chores for us
> 
> 4. To provide sex while I feel bad
> 
> What am I supposed to do? We talked about living together but with separate lives. We talked about separating but being best friends.
> 
> Right now, the plan seems to be that she will return early January and we will stay together for 27 days before we fly to Spain for a seven day vacation that she won earlier this year on The Price is Right show. Then, she will separate February 15th. No divorce is planned and money is not an issue at all.
> 
> Appreciate any thoughts. It has done me well to just type this. Thanks.


I’ve rewritten my thoughts a dozen times.

I’ve seen this personally… a life that hits a place where they wonder if this is all there is and if so, why aren’t I satisfied with it?

You won’t be able to love her out of it my friend… that happiness has to come from within her.

For several years to fight the “roommate” status, several times told “what if this is how it is?”

It sucks to be told “I did my duty but I haven’t loved you for a long time in a way you need”.

You know you are both suffering, and it is scary to think that a love ends in such a way… but sometimes it needs to no matter how much letting go hurts.

She is as afraid of the change as you are… fear of what it takes to love the lifestyle but not the life she shares it with.

I think the trip inviting more suffering than you will want to handle… a goodbye trip to end a marriage, ugh.

I would spend the weeks prior sorting through the inevitability that after she returns, you have things in place to begin life apart including financials with the thought that if she does not find her peace, you will.

This is loving yourself more.


----------



## [email protected]

George, she's going to place her family above you, and go off on her own somewhere. That's at least indicative of an EA. But it's probable that she's had an on again-off again PA going for some time now. Anyhow, she's checked out.


----------



## JustTheWife

We (women) can be very complicated and sometimes I feel sorry for men who have to figure us out!

Sometimes we don't really know what we want.

Some guys think that all women want to be treated like royalty and put on a pedestal. Like a dream to have a guy that just wants to make you happy all the time.

I think a lot of women fantasize about being treated like a princess but it's really the last thing they want. I've certainly fantasized about the princess treatment but in the end it's not what I want in a relationship.

It can be reallly suffocating to have a guy playing house all the time. I've also found that a lot of guys who are always sappy like that are deep down just the opposite of the way they treat their women. Like it's really a show and deep down they have feelings of hatred or resentment for women. I'm not saying everyone is like this just telling you from my experience.


----------



## Adelais

You have managed to stay married for 33 years, and at least you feel like they have been good years. That says a lot about both of you. Your wife seems to love you, and you know you love her.

I suspect that her CSA is what is closing in on her. She needs time to process all that, and that is why she is keeping you emotionally at bay.

Give her the space she needs for a few months to a year. Don't threaten divorce or separation. Doesn't she deserve one year to deal with her emotional issues that have little to do with you? She made love with you every day and then some for 33 years, and kept her other promise to you. That says a lot about the kind of woman she is. Don't dismiss her history with you.

Regarding the sex issue. I don't believe you need to give it up while she is going through her journey. Talk with her and come up a code word that she can say (a word that has nothing to do with anything, and will immediately be clear....like "giraffe") if she realizes she doesn't want to have sex, or if she is triggering. She can say this word in the middle of sex, and know that you will lovingly stop.

She sounds like she is willing to work with you and at the same time work on her own issues. She will need to learn how to give you verbal kudos, and maybe she can practice by saying one kind thing a day at a time of her choosing.

She needs to know that she has to get therapy for her CSA as a condition for your giving her time and space. No therapy means that she will not grow. If she doesn't grow, you will eventually let her go.

Hang in there.


----------



## Beach123

Before you agree to her list of terms for the next year you need info from her:

What is she expecting to accomplish for herself in this next year?

Does she have resentments she has held onto all through the years?

If so, what does SHE plan to do about those resentments? Does she plan to work through them with a professional within the next year? Or does she just plan to play “fantasy life” during this time and not address her issues dragging the marriage down?


I’d want to know exactly what the end goal is! Otherwise, if nothing is going to benefit her mentality/emotionally - no way!


She wants the idea of ignoring you energy wise/emotionally...and she wants your approval stamp? No way unless there’s a long term positive goal she has in mind.


Has she lined up a counselor yet?

Does she plan to live in the same house as you or somewhere else during the year?

Has she agreed to not communicate at all with OTHER men during this year apart?

Did you trust her if she’s away from you for an entire year or do you half wonder what’s going on with her?


I’d outline solid boundaries and harsh consequences that should be expected IF one of you crosses the boundaries (at all).


----------



## NobodySpecial

George36 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Never thought that I would be on this type of site but glad I found it. I have put this in this section because, truthfully, I don't have much faith in men and their opinions when it comes to matter s likes this.
> 
> In a nutshell, I am 63 and wife is 59. We got married in Feb 1985. Honestly, we have led a story book life. At 37, I retired from the Navy and my wife did 16 years of service. We have been retired completely since 1991 and have travelled the world. Not many places that we have not visited overseas and in the U.S. We have two wonderful daughters and our first grandchild just turned one. We are in pretty good health even having run a few marathons. We have plenty of money, time and assets to do anything that we want.
> 
> Should be perfect. Ladies, my pain comes from my wife not being able to provide loving support back to me. She readily admits that she is not good at "sappy" things. Love you to me comes only when I tell her that I love her first. I wake up each morning with my first goal being to make sure that she has the best day possible. I consistently applaud her for her looks, body and smart as well as what she does for me. Very little back.
> 
> Ladies, I understand that it is old fashion to believe that a woman should provide the support discussed by.happywivesclub - 6 Ways to Love Your Husband...Even Better | Happy Wives Club. I provide the support to her and much more. Have listed the six below as I cannot put the link.
> 
> THese are the six ways:
> 
> 1. Adore Him Unconditionally. Don’t wait to adore him until he’s nicer, makes more money or is more affectionate with you. The key is to love him as he–even if he’s not 100 percent adorable.
> 
> 2. Adore Him For What He Does. Take notice of what he does and make it a big deal. Tell him and be specific: “You are such a great dad; our kids just love you.” “You did an awesome job fixing the garage door. “
> 
> 3. Adore Him Physically. If you don’t adore him in this area, who will? This is something only the two of you share. You don’t have to wait until you’re in bed together; whisper a compliment at breakfast: “I was thinking about last night and how great…” You get the idea.
> 
> 4. Adore Him By Listening. Men like and need their wife’s attention. When you listen well you will become his confidant and gain greater access to what he struggles with and needs encouragement about.
> 
> 5. Adore Him By Putting Him First. You can’t tell your 3 year old to wait while you give your husband a back massage. But, you can find creative ways to carve out time for him.
> 
> 6. Adore Him So Others Can See It and Hear It. A compliment given at home is one thing; a compliment given in front of others is magnified big time. So the next time you’re out with your husband with friends or family, build him up in front of everyone.
> 
> Not sure what to do? Would rather die than leave her. Not sure how many more years that I can give so completely for very little show of appreciation.
> 
> Thanks for reading. Another problem is that I do not have anyone to talk to about this. I have talked with my wife extensively over the last couple of years but have not found anyone outside. I do understand that I am an old guy that wants his ego stroked and my wife to adore me. I guess I seek this because, every day since 1985, I have treated here like a Queen and put her on a pedestal like the Bible says to do.
> 
> Appreciate any thoughts you may have. Thanks again.


It's hard to answer this without knowing your wife. Is she religious, purporting to follow the bible? Is her response more extensive that being not good at sappy things? 

For ME, the some of that list you share would not be about being supportive partner, but, as you say, stroking someone with a fragile self esteem. Adoration is a good deal more that simple appreciation. I can't adore someone for putting on their big boy panties and doing what life requires. I CAN (and do) appreciate it with words like thanks for making dinner. Or wow that garage project took a ton of effort, thanks for doing that and making it look so nice! 

SO take out the word "adore" here and I can get with simple acts of affection and love. I would wonder what give so complete and treat her like a queen look like? Does she feel the same? Does she want to be on a pedestal? (I know i would hate it there, for example.)

Someone recommended the 5 love languages. That is great advice.


----------



## Beach123

George,

Did your wife go dec 5th? Is she back now?

I view her actions as extremely selfish and self centered.

That’s not what marriage is about.

How did you do while she was away?


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

It doesn't seem like the OP is coming back, but I really don't see the OP's wife as 'selfish' at all - I completely understand where she's coming from.

It seems she's come to a point in her life where she feels the need to go in a different direction because she's basically catered to everyone else her whole adult life, but she doesn't quite know how to deal with the 'independence' she craves. This isn't unusual at all. Admittedly, the OP seems to require a lot of attention, a lot of affection, and a lot of sex.

That would tire a lot of women out after 33 years. And from the sounds of it, as is usually the case, she's the one - and has always been the one - to do everything in the household on *top* of catering to the OP and being his sex kitten. Those who haven't spent their lives doing this for someone day after day, week after week, year after year won't be able to understand how tiresome that can get for some women. I personally have known several woman who were just plain tired out from always having to be every_thing_ to every_one_.

For some, there's just not a whole lot of satisfaction in living your *entire* adult life catering to someone day after day, year after year. Some women thrive on it, some eventually grow to resent it. It sounds as though the OP's wife is willing to go through the motions of doing everything she's always done for him for 33 years because that's what the OP expects (and is probably somewhat helpless at this point and needs her to still do everything for him), but her heart just ain't in it anymore.

She wants *more* in life than to just be the handmaid, chief cook and bottle-washer, scullery maid, housekeeper, nurse, scheduler, care-taker, sex partner, nurturer, laundress, grocery shopper, toilet scrubber, closet organizer, gift buyer, ego fluffer, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on .....

Sorry, but I don't blame her at all for feeling plain burned out emotionally and for the first time in 33 years, wanting to experience what it's like to *not* have to live every minute of her life trying to please and fulfill someone else. Maybe she feels it's HER turn.

Just my 2 bits...


----------



## George36

Hi All,

Thanks for all of the postings. I am now 65 and, on April 4th of this year, I finally learned the truth about our situation. On that day, my wife was acting strange and just not normal. She could not remember anything, was very wobbly and it was extremely scary. Our daughter took her to the Emergency Room as we feared a stroke. They did tests and were going to call for the “stroke” regimen but a test came back with an alcohol content of .27. She was drunk.

Over the span of the next few days, we talked at length about the last three years. It was devastating to me. Three years ago, we moved about 20 miles to be closer to our daughter to be ready and available for our expected grandchildren. She told me that she started being a closet drinker when we moved. I asked why and she replied consistently “I don’t know.” Our granddaughter was born three months later and she said that she would be drunk when we were babysitting our granddaughter. She provided little help in watching her. Our grandson was born last year also. 

She, basically, told me that all our problems can be traced to her drinking. She’d drink, start a fight, leave me wonder what happened and watch me suffer over the next few days. Come to find out, my suffering would be staying in bed to figure out how to save our relationship. All the talk about independence was nonsense and she never wanted to be independent. 

As an update of what happened in December on the Minnesota trip, she left on December 5th and we were talking positively for two weeks. We decided that I would fly out and be with her family and her. I did so. It was devastating to me. Stayed a week and visited her 90 year old Mom. That was great. I became aware that ALL of her family has a negative view of me. When she would drink and start a fight, she would, in her drunken state, call her sisters crying that I am not a good person. It was surreal.

Since then, we made up as much as we could and went on the six day Price is Right trip to San Sebastián, Spain at the end of January. It was all good while we were traveling and Spain was very nice. We had decided, prior to this trip, that I would travel to Thailand for 30 days so she can really figure out what she wants and how to move forward. I left on the 9th of February. During the Thailand trip, we talked extensively and did video chats. My spirits were soaring. We decided that I would come back a week earlier. Same, same stuff. Start fight, me in pain and she continued to drink. 

Pretty much stayed in that constant battle to try to make our life work. All the while, she is drinking daily and consistently with no regards for me. Then, the 4th of April happened. Since then, she has stated that she does not know why she started drinking and could not stop. She felt that she was an alcoholic but, she has not had a drink since April 4th. 

I am an idiot. I cannot believe that I missed all the alcohol abuse. My relationship with our daughters are Strained and I feel that I do not have a place anywhere anymore. I am lost and have no one to talk with concerning what to do. I think back and I simply cannot believe that I find myself in this position at 65.

I would like you to know that I have always been a giver and I get abused for it. I did spoil my wife and kids because I wanted them to have it better than I did. Both my wife and I come from poor families. Guess this is really all my fault as I like to make people happy. I retired at age 37 and wonder how I got in this position.

This is hard to write but I appreciate the forum for allowing me to do so. Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.


----------



## happiness27

George36 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Unfortunately, I have to keep posting to try to maintain my sanity. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks.
> 
> Seems like my wife and I tried to cover up where we were at with previous posts. It does not seem that it was aloofness or just not able to show appreciation but a strong need in her for independence and resentments. She tells me that she does not why but just needs independence. She tells me she loves me and wants to be with me but her demeanor and actions change daily as to what she truly wants.
> 
> The original post included the sex part. She has been wonderful over the years and, if we never have sex again, I will have had more sex in my lifetime than probably 100 men. Lol. She agrees to continue to provide sex but I do not want to have sex with her knowing what she has told me this year. Does not feel right and I do not want to do any harm. She tells me that she has lost interest in sex but will still do it. She tells me that she was abused by a Priest 40 years ago. She has previously told me that she was sexually abused by one of her brothers while young. She has been a sexual dynamo for the past 35 years but, I believe, her past has come back to haunt her. I know this can happen.
> 
> She does not like it at all when I refuse her initiating sex as that is what she agreed decades ago to forever provide. What do I do? Have sex and feel bad that I might be causing harm? Give up sex to keep my wife? This is one of the biggest problems but not all of them.
> 
> She does not know why she needs independence and I can see that it is destroying her also. But, she cannot stop herself. She has gone to counseling and Doctor to try to figure it out but no answers. She wishes that it would go away but it won’t. We separated for a month early this year and she, quickly, came to realize that loneliness can be devastating and we got back together. I know that she loves me but does not seem to be able to get over her independence drive.
> 
> We decided that she would go back to Minnesota for a month beginning December 5 to be with her Mom. She explained all to her 89 year old Mom and was upset when her Mom told her she was acting stupid and needed to fix herself. It was pretty harsh but, still, independence. We have talked and her independence seems to come down to the below list.
> 
> List of desires:
> 
> 1. Independence to make decisions and do things that she wants.
> 
> 2. Reading time of what and whatever she desires. Romance novels, Trump, chaos, Facebook, drama from relatives, etc, etc.
> 
> 3. Work out time and length of whatever she desires.
> 
> 4. Limited time with grandchildren and, certainly, no intensive daycare or preschool.
> 
> (We had our second grandchild born in September of this year)
> 
> 5. The ability to decide for herself what her daily actions will be.
> 
> 6. Community connection.
> 
> 7. Ability to watch whatever she wants, whenever she wants on television to include shows and the chaos of the federal government and Trump.
> 
> 8. The desire to place her family first above me and our relationship. Shown by my trip to Thailand and her immersion in her vacation and family’s drama while ignoring the need to work on us. Plus, her trip to Minnesota resulting in her “enjoying family” as an excuse for not working on us.
> 
> 9. To have me serve her and treat her the way that I have for over 35 years.
> 
> 10. To live in this house and have the life that she had while I was in Thailand.
> 
> In return, she offers the following:
> 
> 1. To cook and shop for food for us.
> 
> 2. To clean for us
> 
> 3. To do chores for us
> 
> 4. To provide sex while I feel bad
> 
> What am I supposed to do? We talked about living together but with separate lives. We talked about separating but being best friends.
> 
> Right now, the plan seems to be that she will return early January and we will stay together for 27 days before we fly to Spain for a seven day vacation that she won earlier this year on The Price is Right show. Then, she will separate February 15th. No divorce is planned and money is not an issue at all.
> 
> Appreciate any thoughts. It has done me well to just type this. Thanks.


I am married to a recovering alcoholic. I met him at 7 years sober, he now has 37 years. We went to AA meetings for a couple of decades. I know the Big Book inside and out and a half dozen other books as well. The path out of your situations is:

*Go to AlAnon meetings starting now*. Listen. Learn. Take it seriously. Do the steps. Focus on yourself - this sounds counterintuitive but it's not. When one person moves and gets better, the other person will try to do things to make them 'change back' - stay strong, stay on the path to recovery for yourself and she will have zero choice but to deal with a person who is no longer going to enable her. When that happens, SHE will have to make new choices. If she decides to go to AA, that's one of her choices but I'm not addressing her, I'm addressing you. She either will or she will not. Be ready to leave at some point if she does not and that is what will heal your own life. This is not a selfish move and I know it sounds harsh - but you need to run that scenario through your mind because, if it comes down to it and she refuses to quit drinking, you need to know you have the option of leaving. 

Going to AlAnon for YOU is the move I'm suggesting for YOU. Alcoholics do not make a decision to quit until they face themselves alone and have no one else who is going to cover for them. Even then, if they continue to drink, they only get three options: jails, institutions or death. By you addressing yourself, you offer her the best chance for recovery. 

Read: *CoDependent No More*

When I read everything you've written, it's clear that you are totally wrapped up in the broken relationship trying to fix it on your own. You can't. You guys are broken. The alcohol just poured gasoline on the issues that both of you are not facing. Once you step aside and let go and focus on yourself, the solutions will begin to unfold. Don't read this wrong - you are not crappy people. You are broken people. There's a difference.

I have just handed you the solution but it's a very hard road. At our 25th anniversary, I had a jeweler make a silver ring for my husband. It is fashioned to look like a road with pocks in it. It's beautiful. Our song is "Broken Road". 

The future starts with YOU and your healing. It's not up to you to fix your wife. You can be a support but that doesn't mean she takes you down with her. She needs to work on her own healing without the crutch of alcohol. That's her decision. AA is tremendously helpful to a lot of people. There are many, many AA halls so there's no excuse to not be able to find one. Just about every single person in the AA halls has some abusive past and knows how to talk about it. Sexual abuse is no longer a secret shame but it's also no longer an excuse for damaging oneself by drinking to numb the feelings. These people know how to put you on your own two feet and tell you that you can face the past with newfound resolve and face the present one day at a time alcohol free. You work on YOU and she works on HERSELF.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

This is not just a book for those whose lives intertwine with alcoholics... it is an invaluable book for anyone who finds themselves willing to take abuse to maintain a relationship.

https://www.amazon.com/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025


----------



## happiness27

Emerging Buddhist said:


> This is not just a book for those whose lives intertwine with alcoholics... it is an invaluable book for anyone who finds themselves willing to take abuse to maintain a relationship.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025


True dat.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Araucaria said:


> You have managed to stay married for 33 years, and at least you feel like they have been good years. That says a lot about both of you. Your wife seems to love you, and you know you love her.
> 
> I suspect that her CSA is what is closing in on her. She needs time to process all that, and that is why she is keeping you emotionally at bay.
> 
> Give her the space she needs for a few months to a year. Don't threaten divorce or separation. Doesn't she deserve one year to deal with her emotional issues that have little to do with you? She made love with you every day and then some for 33 years, and kept her other promise to you. That says a lot about the kind of woman she is. Don't dismiss her history with you.
> 
> Regarding the sex issue. I don't believe you need to give it up while she is going through her journey. Talk with her and come up a code word that she can say (a word that has nothing to do with anything, and will immediately be clear....like "giraffe") if she realizes she doesn't want to have sex, or if she is triggering. She can say this word in the middle of sex, and know that you will lovingly stop.
> 
> She sounds like she is willing to work with you and at the same time work on her own issues. She will need to learn how to give you verbal kudos, and maybe she can practice by saying one kind thing a day at a time of her choosing.
> 
> She needs to know that she has to get therapy for her CSA as a condition for your giving her time and space. No therapy means that she will not grow. If she doesn't grow, you will eventually let her go.
> 
> Hang in there.


But, respectfully, OP, you can't let her constant waffling drive you insane, which it will.

And you'll snap in some manner.

She can't constantly be the "decider" in you two's relationship, sexual or other, that will destroy you.

At some time you'll reach your limit and realize she's driving you batsh!! with all her "me, me, me" conditions' setting and you will have had enough craziness. 

Hopefully before you go into a mental spiral. Don't doubt that will happen. 

In the end, with what info you're sharing, she won't care about your needs anyway.


----------



## sokillme

George36 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Thanks for all of the postings. I am now 65 and, on April 4th of this year, I finally learned the truth about our situation. On that day, my wife was acting strange and just not normal. She could not remember anything, was very wobbly and it was extremely scary. Our daughter took her to the Emergency Room as we feared a stroke. They did tests and were going to call for the “stroke” regimen but a test came back with an alcohol content of .27. She was drunk.
> 
> Over the span of the next few days, we talked at length about the last three years. It was devastating to me. Three years ago, we moved about 20 miles to be closer to our daughter to be ready and available for our expected grandchildren. She told me that she started being a closet drinker when we moved. I asked why and she replied consistently “I don’t know.” Our granddaughter was born three months later and she said that she would be drunk when we were babysitting our granddaughter. She provided little help in watching her. Our grandson was born last year also.
> 
> She, basically, told me that all our problems can be traced to her drinking. She’d drink, start a fight, leave me wonder what happened and watch me suffer over the next few days. Come to find out, my suffering would be staying in bed to figure out how to save our relationship. All the talk about independence was nonsense and she never wanted to be independent.
> 
> As an update of what happened in December on the Minnesota trip, she left on December 5th and we were talking positively for two weeks. We decided that I would fly out and be with her family and her. I did so. It was devastating to me. Stayed a week and visited her 90 year old Mom. That was great. I became aware that ALL of her family has a negative view of me. When she would drink and start a fight, she would, in her drunken state, call her sisters crying that I am not a good person. It was surreal.
> 
> Since then, we made up as much as we could and went on the six day Price is Right trip to San Sebastián, Spain at the end of January. It was all good while we were traveling and Spain was very nice. We had decided, prior to this trip, that I would travel to Thailand for 30 days so she can really figure out what she wants and how to move forward. I left on the 9th of February. During the Thailand trip, we talked extensively and did video chats. My spirits were soaring. We decided that I would come back a week earlier. Same, same stuff. Start fight, me in pain and she continued to drink.
> 
> Pretty much stayed in that constant battle to try to make our life work. All the while, she is drinking daily and consistently with no regards for me. Then, the 4th of April happened. Since then, she has stated that she does not know why she started drinking and could not stop. She felt that she was an alcoholic but, she has not had a drink since April 4th.
> 
> I am an idiot. I cannot believe that I missed all the alcohol abuse. My relationship with our daughters are Strained and I feel that I do not have a place anywhere anymore. I am lost and have no one to talk with concerning what to do. I think back and I simply cannot believe that I find myself in this position at 65.
> 
> I would like you to know that I have always been a giver and I get abused for it. I did spoil my wife and kids because I wanted them to have it better than I did. Both my wife and I come from poor families. Guess this is really all my fault as I like to make people happy. I retired at age 37 and wonder how I got in this position.
> 
> This is hard to write but I appreciate the forum for allowing me to do so. Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.


You are just too nice. Everyone takes you for granted. Being that nice to people ends up making them entitled. 

The question is why is it more important that you make people happy that you allow them to take advantage and abuse you? 
When you do that you are not being authentic because your relationships are based on fear, you don't trust them enough to say "Hey your full of ****", you don't trust there love for you enough to allow you to speak the truth to them.

I suggest you go on a vacation just yourself, tell everyone to **** off. Then let them know that it's time for them to stop taking you for granted. 

Finally get some IC for your codependency.


----------



## OnTheFly

Suddenly becomes alcoholic because of move?

Answers ''I don't know'' to everything?

I suspect a ''Bobert-esque'' reveal soon.


----------



## blazer prophet

George, now is the time for action. 

I believe the both of you need counseling. Serious counseling. And I would have your wife see a psychiatrist. A good one. This can be dealt with. 

I also echo happiness37 post.


----------



## aquarius1

I’ve read the entire thread and here’s what I see on a global level. Your wife suffered repeated CSA and it has obviously scarred her. Perhaps the drinking was a way to self medicate the pain as well as her uncertainty? While I do not claim to have ANY experience with regards to CSA, I have come to understand that oftentimes it’s victims become hyper sexual and relate to others that way. I believe that your wife has reached her limit, her exhaustion point, and she has hit the wall. She honestly does not know how to move forward from this point. Your wife needs help, for the CSA, the trauma, possible PTSD and the alcoholic coping.
Sorry your world is blowing up. While I’m not blaming you, I wonder if you have just always gone merrily along with the idea that as long as your needs were being met, all was well. This can be a fatal relationship mistake for many men. Counselling will definitely be needed for both of you. ASAP


----------



## bandit.45

I recommend you find an Al Anon group where you live. There you can meet with other spouses of alcoholics and learn strategies to cope with being married to an alcoholic. You take care of you. 

It is your wife's responsibility to get herself help. She has to want to change. Doesn't sound like she is there yet.

https://al-anon.org/al-anon-meetings/find-an-al-anon-meeting/


----------



## George36

I would like to say thanks to the members for their input. It is both educational and provides hope to me. Their are some acronyms above that I do not recognize. Can someone please direct me to any part of the site that gives the breakdown? Ones that I do not know are: Coda, IC, CSA and what the meaning of ''Bobert-esque'' would be. Thanks.

Car hit a tree in our neighborhood yesterday and knocked out the power for 12 hours from 8 am to 8 pm. That meant that the wife and I had twelve hours to work on items and try to figure some things out. I requested she tell me her thoughts about what our positions would be if we separated and/or divorce. She thought that she would live somewhere close to the kids and grandchildren. She thought that she would end up alone, bitter and delve deeply into alcohol. Her weight would balloon and she would be alone. She thought that I would stay in the house and continue on happily as a single having girlfriends and relationships. She thought that that is what I want. 

I would not want to live in our house by myself, so I would sell and move away. She is probably right about the relationship and girlfriends. Sex is still very important and money would never be an issue. I am a healthy 65 year old physically, mentally and financially and I am not afraid to be alone. Buuuuuuuut, I do not want to be anywhere except with my wife. 

I explained to her that I only wanted her and have always worked to try to keep us together. She wants to go “Back to the Future.” We picked a timeframe where we were most happy and, today, will be putting onto paper our plans for the next three weeks. We are going to move forward by baby steps. This plan will include AA, Alnon, devouring the codependency area, dating, talking and being together 24/7 like we were for the first 25 years or so. 

She pleaded with me for this chance. She admits to everything with the closet drinking, bad mouthing me to her family, hiding things and lying. No indication of any involvement with anyone else. Either physical or mentally. 

She wanted to have a breathalyzer in this house to assist. When the event happened on April 4th, she went to Amazon and purchased one. Any time that she would leave the house, she would return and do the test in front of me. We have used it daily since just for sure and to back her up in stopping drinking. She hasn’t drank since. This latest situation was caused by me trying to compartmentalism the pain/past and forget it. My dreams are not allowing this and, sometimes, I wake up in a dark place. 

Thanks again all.


----------



## sokillme

George36 said:


> I would like to say thanks to the members for their input. It is both educational and provides hope to me. Their are some acronyms above that I do not recognize. Can someone please direct me to any part of the site that gives the breakdown? Ones that I do not know are: Coda, IC, CSA and what the meaning of ''Bobert-esque'' would be. Thanks.
> 
> Car hit a tree in our neighborhood yesterday and knocked out the power for 12 hours from 8 am to 8 pm. That meant that the wife and I had twelve hours to work on items and try to figure some things out. I requested she tell me her thoughts about what our positions would be if we separated and/or divorce. She thought that she would live somewhere close to the kids and grandchildren. She thought that she would end up alone, bitter and delve deeply into alcohol. Her weight would balloon and she would be alone. She thought that I would stay in the house and continue on happily as a single having girlfriends and relationships. She thought that that is what I want.
> 
> I would not want to live in our house by myself, so I would sell and move away. She is probably right about the relationship and girlfriends. Sex is still very important and money would never be an issue. I am a healthy 65 year old physically, mentally and financially and I am not afraid to be alone. Buuuuuuuut, I do not want to be anywhere except with my wife.
> 
> I explained to her that I only wanted her and have always worked to try to keep us together. She wants to go “Back to the Future.” We picked a timeframe where we were most happy and, today, will be putting onto paper our plans for the next three weeks. We are going to move forward by baby steps. This plan will include AA, Alnon, devouring the codependency area, dating, talking and being together 24/7 like we were for the first 25 years or so.
> 
> She pleaded with me for this chance. She admits to everything with the closet drinking, bad mouthing me to her family, hiding things and lying. No indication of any involvement with anyone else. Either physical or mentally.
> 
> She wanted to have a breathalyzer in this house to assist. When the event happened on April 4th, she went to Amazon and purchased one. Any time that she would leave the house, she would return and do the test in front of me. We have used it daily since just for sure and to back her up in stopping drinking. She hasn’t drank since. This latest situation was caused by me trying to compartmentalism the pain/past and forget it. My dreams are not allowing this and, sometimes, I wake up in a dark place.
> 
> Thanks again all.


IC - Individual counseling
CSA - Childhood sexual abuse?

Continuing with your nice-ness. If you want to do this you should have hard stipulations in my opinion. 

First she must make amends with all the people she bad mouthed you to. Tell the truth about what is going on. Admit to them that she is an alcoholic if she hasn't. Get into alcoholic Anonymous. (Make sure her sponsor is a straight woman!) 

IC is a must, why is she drinking? What is the underlying reason. Which leads me to this. Don't assume you have the whole truth about the situation. I wouldn't be shocked if there were infidelity and moving away change that. Maybe she is grieving. Look I hope I am wrong but it is a possibility. 

Don't become her warden that is not a marriage, that is a parent child dynamic and isn't good for a long term relationship. Let AA do that for her. 

Have hard consequences if she doesn't do what she said she would do for asked for. Words are just that words. Hold her too it even if that means ending it.


----------



## SecondWind

A breathalyzer will not keep her sober and your being her policeman won't either. She'd will have to own her own program. Has she found an AA meeting to go to today? You can't work her program for her. Only she can do it. She needs to know when and where they all are and go several times a week. Those meetings and people are where she will find her tools for staying sober. 

Have you found the AlAnon meetings in your area?


----------



## bandit.45

I'm not going to jump in about any possible infidelity. Maybe she has fooled around, maybe not. Sounds like there is not enough hard evidence to prove she has. 

The most immediate issue I see is her alcohol intake. If she is blowing a BAC of .27%, that is some serious sh*t right there. The fact that she is able to stand and talk tells me that her system has reached a saturation point where her body chemistry has adjusted to the constant high level of alcohol in her blood. Her liver and pancreas are not even trying to convert the alcohol to carbs anymore. What that means is, if she goes cold turkey off booze, she is going to crash hard and violently. 

If she is still at this level, you need to get her in to detox right away, so she can be monitored. She will withdrawal badly, probably get the DTs for a day, climb the walls for two or three, then spend the last couple days dry heaving. Then she needs a long stay in inpatient...30 to 45 days if possible. 

I've gone through this. I am a binge drinker like your wife. I can go years, decades without drinking, then BAM! I'm like Nick Cage in Leaving Las Vegas.

She needs detox and inpatient treatment, and she needs to get in asap. Please.


----------



## George36

bandit.45 said:


> The most immediate issue I see is her alcohol intake. If she is blowing a BAC of .27%, that is some serious sh*t right there. The fact that she is able to stand and talk tells me that her system has reached a saturation point where her body chemistry has adjusted to the constant high level of alcohol in her blood.
> 
> If she is still at this level, you need to get her in to detox right away, so she can be monitored. She will withdrawal badly, probably get the DTs for a day, climb the walls for two or three, then spend the last couple days dry heaving. Then she needs a long stay in inpatient...30 to 45 days if possible. .


Thanks for your thoughts. Very well appreciated.

I may be putting my head in the sand but she does not seem to be an alcoholic. She has not had any alcohol since coming out of the Emergency Room on April 4th. We were afraid of detox but it never happened. She desires booze as she likes the taste but seems to be able to stop. She seems to be the binge drinker that you mentioned. I could say the same for me. Rarely, rarely, rarely drink except on vacations and, then, watch out. My old Navy days come back full force. I spent 20 years in the Navy and my wife did 16.

She is happy in that stopping the alcohol has resulted in her losing 10ish pounds over the last two months. The alcohol calorie intake was high.

Thanks again.


----------



## Prodigal

George36 said:


> I may be putting my head in the sand but she does not seem to be an alcoholic. She has not had any alcohol since coming out of the Emergency Room on April 4th. We were afraid of detox but it never happened. She desires booze as she likes the taste but seems to be able to stop. She seems to be the binge drinker that you mentioned.


My late husband was an alcoholic. He could go a year at a time without a drink when he was deployed to a Muslim country. Stopping the booze makes many alcoholics believe they don't have an addiction. Believe me, they do.

I'd suggest you step back from the alcoholic. Respect her right to work her own recovery. You would benefit from Al-Anon and working your own program. You are codependent. Believe me, as the poster child for codependency, I can spot one a mile away.

You might want to check out the Sober Recovery forum. There is a sub-forum there called "Friends and Family of Alcoholics." Lots of good recovery and wisdom to be gained from those who have endured life with an alcoholic.

Your life. Your choice. Seriously.


----------



## George36

Prodigal said:


> I'd suggest you step back from the alcoholic. Respect her right to work her own recovery. You would benefit from Al-Anon and working your own program. You are codependent. Believe me, as the poster child for codependency, I can spot one a mile away.
> 
> You might want to check out the Sober Recovery forum. There is a sub-forum there called "Friends and Family of Alcoholics." Lots of good recovery and wisdom to be gained from those who have endured life with an alcoholic.


Thanks for your input. Great suggestions that I will incorporate in moving forward. Outstanding.

I have been watching videos on You-tube about Codependency and, already, have learned a lot about ME. I received the book “Codependent No More” about an hour ago and it is an amazing book. Only a little ways through and I can see many opportunities for me to grow. My wife is excited also as this is the first path forward that we have found that helps us both. 

I know this will be a long and winding road over time but I am happy and excited about these first steps.

Thanks again all.


----------



## bandit.45

George36 said:


> Thanks for your input. Great suggestions that I will incorporate in moving forward. Outstanding.
> 
> I have been watching videos on You-tube about Codependency and, already, have learned a lot about ME. I received the book “Codependent No More” about an hour ago and it is an amazing book. Only a little ways through and I can see many opportunities for me to grow. My wife is excited also as this is the first path forward that we have found that helps us both.
> 
> I know this will be a long and winding road over time but I am happy and excited about these first steps.
> 
> Thanks again all.


Listen to Prodigal. She lost her husband to alcohol. It is a horrible, horrible thing to go through.


----------



## badsanta

This is an interesting thread and I am a man and find this opening statement problematic:



George36 said:


> I don't have much faith in men and their opinions when it comes to matter s likes this.


I too used to feel that way about my problems, and turned to women thinking that women probably understand women better than men do. But then we get to the real problem:



George36 said:


> Can a man not want his wife to verbally and physically promote him without being deemed overly needy? Are my feelings unimportant because I love and adore her?


That is NOT necessarily a problem with her but could be an indication that as a man you may not fully understand your own needs. For this you will not find any help from other women. You may be turned off by support from other men because you don't want another man to tell you who you are, and that is natural. 

*In my opinion you can not want someone to want you in all the exact ways that you want to be wanted!* You have to be a happy and content person with yourself and when something great happens ask yourself who is the first person you want to share that with? Hopefully that is your wife and she enjoys you sharing your happiness with her. She should not however be tasked with the responsibility of maintaining your happiness and your wellbeing. Yes she can help with those things sparingly when you really need it, but that should be the exception and not the rule. 

Happiness and wellbeing are things you share. Some people try give and take but that can only be sustained so far before it becomes tiring. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------

