# "Just talked to a guy in the Gym" - Am I crazy or a problem for reconciliation ?



## SMFD01

My wife and I (dependent child 5 y/o)

are attempting to move forward toward reconciliation after her being caught red handed in a highly sexual affair with a Personal trainer during one on one studio sessions. This was ongoing for 3 months and involved significant planing and disrespect. Making it worse the scum bag guy was also a fake ' Good Buddy'.

I think I will need to post in coping with infidelity shortly also. 

When caught out, she was immediately sorry, cut all contact and the usual begged to stay routine. Became suicidal and over ridden with grief and upset. Although this was after caught.....

She blames herself and claims an otherwise stellar marriage with great relationship, sex and needs being met. But has identified feeling inferior to myself (no reason from my part) and a need for attention and lust for something new in the affair fog, although it was only ever supposed to be physical she developed feelings, claiming it was not love but still sufficient to escalate to full penetration no protection because it was fun and hot.

That is a brief part of back story.

Move forward a few months and her mental health is not ideal, but a lot better, as long as I am careful not to push with discussions on what happened, although all information is disclosed as I request and is honest from what can be ascertained (potential manipulation??).

*Moving to last night*

Wife comes back from Gym - a different gym that is busy and standard. no connection with affair partner etc.

And notes that the "hot guy at gym that looks like Thor" spoke to her. 

Apparently:

*W/W: Standing between squat sets*
_Gym Rat: Walks over to Weight Rack behind_
*W/W: Sorry am I in your way whilst removing headphones (as he was looking for some weights...)*
_Gym Rat: Looking for 20's_
*W/W: Oh I have them - But no way p off are you messing with me?*
_Gym Rat: No why (smirk)_
*W/W: As you can lift much heavier than that*
_Gym Rat: No srs I need the 20's but you can lift 25 easily on squat!_
*W/W: Oh ok - takes 25 from him and passes 20 kg to him*
_Gym Rat: After his set in busy gym - comes over and fist bumps W/W see you can do it boom!_
*W/W: ha ha yea thanks*
_Gym Rat: Yea what you squat in squat rack?_
*W/W: 30 - 50 as back is weak link.* 
_Gym Rat: You can do more than that and starts talking belts and shooting small talk_
*W/W: Oh ok se you (places headphones back in)*

Now the above outside of reconciliation is enough to warrant a sharp talk between us regards boundaries. She knows too well about the birds and bees.

Being in England - in large commercial Gyms, we do not small talk and in fact eye contact is weird or not really a done thing. Girls are never really being talked to, certainly by strangers. (I work out hard 6 days per week).

The guy was hitting on her and I am not particular concerned either way on that under typical circumstances, as we can only manage our own actions and not others.

My wife returns home and explains the above to me. Now I am struggling and really triggered and angry. 

The main reason I think, is that the location - Gym and connection of this activity to her cheating ways. 

But also wife thinks she had been 'good' and set up strong boundaries. 

If I was standing in the same position and when the other girls in the gym are standing in that position etc - they simply ignore those around and conversation does not happen, if it does occur it would transpire as "I will have finished the 20's finished in 5 dude" the end. 

From my point, I am thinking:

So the guy you found hot and looks like Thor (he does not in any way) happened to speak and chat up, trying to escalate with you in a gym. A married women in supposed reconciliation, whilst not hitting on the myriad of other largely single women in the place. What a coincidence ehhh? You shut him down by being polite and allowing escalation and a bit of pick up skills practice in terms of touch escalation with fist bumping. 

Ok sounds completely legitimate.

Any thoughts on this to help?


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## Gregory Chaucery

If she is really intent on preventing another affair, she should be working out at home. Is there room in your house to set something up?

There are a lot of good equipment and computer programs these days.


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## Andy1001

This may not be what you want to hear but as a former serial dater I honestly believe I picked up more women in gyms than anywhere else. 
Your wife has you walking on eggshells around her, you’re afraid to talk about her affair. She’s ripe for another one I think and because she got away Scott free the first time she’s pretty sure that you’re not going to do anything.


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## Marc878

She was only sorry she got caught. Regret is different than remorse. Temporary fix it mode won’t last.
Fog? She knew exactly what she was doing. All the planning and deceit is a choice/decision. Fog from what I’ve seen is an excuse. They normally wouldn’t do this😢. Usually the only one in the fog is the betrayed spouse. 
There will always be other guys around. Repeated infidelity is not uncommon. Plus she obviously didn’t learn anything and has no boundaries. 
True reconciliations are rare. Rugsweeping is common which is where you are.


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## Marc878

Andy1001 said:


> This may not be what you want to hear but as a former serial dater I honestly believe I picked up more women in gyms than anywhere else.
> Your wife has you walking on eggshells around her, you’re afraid to talk about her affair. She’s ripe for another one I think and because she got away Scott free the first time she’s pretty sure that you’re not going to do anything.


Yep, you’re only a chump if you allow it.


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## SMFD01

Gregory Chaucery said:


> If she is really intent on preventing another affair, she should be working out at home. Is there room in your house to set something up?
> 
> There are a lot of good equipment and computer programs these days.


Thanks for comment. Are we saying that basically never to be trusted? Or that trust takes a long time to earn or what. I am trying to understand the benefit of not leaving the house alone at this stage. I take your advice as intended for sure, just trying to understand the entire picture from experience of others?


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## Gregory Chaucery

SMFD01 said:


> Thanks for comment. Are we saying that basically never to be trusted? Or that trust takes a long time to earn or what. I am trying to understand the benefit of not leaving the house alone at this stage. I take your advice as intended for sure, just trying to understand the entire picture from experience of others?


If she is vulnerable to attention from men, that needs to be dealt with. She's already cheated on you. For her, attention from men may be like a bottle of booze to an alcoholic. That needs to be circumvented otherwise she will likely cheat again at some point.

I'm not suggesting trying to trap her, but would you suggest allowing an alcoholic to go to the bars and just resist temptation?


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## SMFD01

Andy1001 said:


> This may not be what you want to hear but as a former serial dater I honestly believe I picked up more women in gyms than anywhere else.
> Your wife has you walking on eggshells around her, you’re afraid to talk about her affair. She’s ripe for another one I think and because she got away Scott free the first time she’s pretty sure that you’re not going to do anything.



I know. I hear you. Been there myself, which is ironic in a way. 

By Scott free - can you point to how you suggest it works to help me better understand. She is a model wife in every other aspect except the cheating which kinda offsets everything good by a huge magnitude. What does the cost or penance look like?

I have only touched the surface regards the aftermath and work she has undertaken, due to time and wishing to get opinion on this specific point.

I think you guys know what I am seeing straight away with the interaction and the issue with her telling me straight away ?


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## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Yep, you’re only a chump if you allow it.


I have dealt with solicitor and divorce petition today. It likely will not go the way she expects unless I get better understanding on this specific point. 

My 1st wife went the same way and was divorced filed and out my. house within the month, zero contact again from me ever. 

but yes - a chump until not. But it is over by that point and I need to work on that.


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## SMFD01

Gregory Chaucery said:


> If she is vulnerable to attention from men, that needs to be dealt with. She's already cheated on you. For her, attention from men may be like a bottle of booze to an alcoholic. That needs to be circumvented otherwise she will likely cheat again at some point.
> 
> I'm not suggesting trying to trap her, but would suggest allowing to an alcoholic to go to the bars and just resist temptation?


I hear you and I am getting that now with your analogy.

Strange is she can shut of emotionally to guys completely. Not a single crap or contact to OM but that is one example. So seems you have a good point. She is about her and her validation. A use for the contact as an addict uses.

Not sure I can be doing this in honesty.


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## SMFD01

In all other aspects she has been contrite, hence current patience.

Remorseful and ripped apart over hurting myself. But who know what is real. Dealing with people that can not be trusted. 

It is the fact that she tells me about this, thinking it was a good example. I lost my cool admittedly at the notion that she was trying to cuckold me directly? She again is crying and begging all night, which is just irritating the hell out of me.


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## bobert

SMFD01 said:


> My wife and I (dependent child 5 y/o)
> 
> are attempting to move forward toward reconciliation after her being caught red handed in a highly sexual affair with a Personal trainer during one on one studio sessions. This was ongoing for 3 months and involved significant planing and disrespect. Making it worse the scum bag guy was also a fake ' Good Buddy'.
> 
> I think I will need to post in coping with infidelity shortly also.
> 
> When caught out, she was immediately sorry, cut all contact and the usual begged to stay routine. Became suicidal and over ridden with grief and upset. Although this was after caught.....
> 
> She blames herself and claims an otherwise stellar marriage with great relationship, sex and needs being met. But has identified feeling inferior to myself (no reason from my part) and a need for attention and lust for something new in the affair fog, although it was only ever supposed to be physical she developed feelings, claiming it was not love but still sufficient to escalate to full penetration no protection because it was fun and hot.
> 
> That is a brief part of back story.
> 
> Move forward a few months and her mental health is not ideal, but a lot better, as long as I am careful not to push with discussions on what happened, although all information is disclosed as I request and is honest from what can be ascertained (potential manipulation??).
> 
> *Moving to last night*
> 
> Wife comes back from Gym - a different gym that is busy and standard. no connection with affair partner etc.
> 
> And notes that the "hot guy at gym that looks like Thor" spoke to her.
> 
> Apparently:
> 
> *W/W: Standing between squat sets*
> _Gym Rat: Walks over to Weight Rack behind_
> *W/W: Sorry am I in your way whilst removing headphones (as he was looking for some weights...)*
> _Gym Rat: Looking for 20's_
> *W/W: Oh I have them - But no way p off are you messing with me?*
> _Gym Rat: No why (smirk)_
> *W/W: As you can lift much heavier than that*
> _Gym Rat: No srs I need the 20's but you can lift 25 easily on squat!_
> *W/W: Oh ok - takes 25 from him and passes 20 kg to him*
> _Gym Rat: After his set in busy gym - comes over and fist bumps W/W see you can do it boom!_
> *W/W: ha ha yea thanks*
> _Gym Rat: Yea what you squat in squat rack?_
> *W/W: 30 - 50 as back is weak link.*
> _Gym Rat: You can do more than that and starts talking belts and shooting small talk_
> *W/W: Oh ok se you (places headphones back in)*
> 
> Now the above outside of reconciliation is enough to warrant a sharp talk between us regards boundaries. She knows too well about the birds and bees.
> 
> Being in England - in large commercial Gyms, we do not small talk and in fact eye contact is weird or not really a done thing. Girls are never really being talked to, certainly by strangers. (I work out hard 6 days per week).
> 
> The guy was hitting on her and I am not particular concerned either way on that under typical circumstances, as we can only manage our own actions and not others.
> 
> My wife returns home and explains the above to me. Now I am struggling and really triggered and angry.
> 
> The main reason I think, is that the location - Gym and connection of this activity to her cheating ways.
> 
> But also wife thinks she had been 'good' and set up strong boundaries.
> 
> If I was standing in the same position and when the other girls in the gym are standing in that position etc - they simply ignore those around and conversation does not happen, if it does occur it would transpire as "I will have finished the 20's finished in 5 dude" the end.
> 
> From my point, I am thinking:
> 
> So the guy you found hot and looks like Thor (he does not in any way) happened to speak and chat up, trying to escalate with you in a gym. A married women in supposed reconciliation, whilst not hitting on the myriad of other largely single women in the place. What a coincidence ehhh? You shut him down by being polite and allowing escalation and a bit of pick up skills practice in terms of touch escalation with fist bumping.
> 
> Ok sounds completely legitimate.
> 
> Any thoughts on this to help?


Your wife shouldn't be in a gym, unless it's female-only. She ruined that for herself when she cheated, and she should care enough about you to avoid the triggers and the risk.

Alternatively, you two could go to the gym together. Many gyms here have daycares, in assuming it's the same over there. If not, find a sitter or sign him up for some sort of class (martial art, sport, art, music, etc) and go then.

My wife screwed a couple of gym rats (that she didn't even meet at a gym) and she wouldn't even think about going to a gym now unless it was one of the above situations.



> Move forward a few months and her mental health is not ideal, but a lot better, as long as I am careful not to push with discussions on what happened


How convenient for her


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## Gregory Chaucery

SMFD01 said:


> I hear you and I am getting that now with your analogy.
> 
> Strange is she can shut of emotionally to guys completely. Not a single crap or contact to OM but that is one example. So seems you have a good point. She is about her and her validation. A use for the contact as an addict uses.
> 
> Not sure I can be doing this in honesty.


If she balks at the idea of working out from home or a ladies only gym, she will be telling you that she intends to cheat some time in the future. 

A repentant person would abide by whatever conditions are necessary to keep them from temptation.


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## Andy1001

Buddy it seems that your wife’s fallback plan in any situation that makes her feel guilty is to turn on the waterworks. Think is manipulative behaviour plain and simple. 
You should have gotten every last detail of her previous affair. How often they had sex, what did they do as in oral, anal etc. Did she do things with him that she won’t do with you. 
You have to remember that she was only sorry when she got caught, in other words she was sorry she got caught and that’s all.


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## Jimi007

The devil is always in the details...Just curious , how did you catch her ?
Did you confront her affair partner ?


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## Marc878

Sorry you’re in this crap.
Most don’t want to end their marriage but she was the one who ended it with her affair.
Reconciliation is a remarriage. Would you marry her now?
A lot upfront don’t think longterm. Unfortunately for you this is something you have to live with permanently.
Not to mention the capability for repeated infidelity is there. Lack of trust is a huge problem.
She made a choice to cheat. You have a choice too.
I suspect like a lot the tears are for her. Not you.


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## SMFD01

bobert said:


> Your wife shouldn't be in a gym, unless it's female-only. She ruined that for herself when she cheated, and she should care enough about you to avoid the triggers and the risk.
> 
> Alternatively, you two could go to the gym together. Many gyms here have daycares, in assuming it's the same over there. If not, find a sitter or sign him up for some sort of class (martial art, sport, art, music, etc) and go then.
> 
> My wife screwed a couple of gym rats (that she didn't even meet at a gym) and she wouldn't even think about going to a gym now unless it was one of the above situations.
> 
> 
> 
> How convenient for her



Ok, I have a handle on this notion now. I agree. Prior to this thread I was like - its a public gym and given no issues over the past decade and the fact that her infidelity was linked to a person in close closed contact over time and not by opportunistic, I let my guard down. I see that is really dumb AF. Not an inch to be given.

The mental health is a bit more of an issue, I honestly am considering having her in an ambulance next time. As I am past dealing with that. When she is restrained to a bed medicated......maybe that will give her pause for thought.


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## SMFD01

Gregory Chaucery said:


> If she balks at the idea of working out from home or a ladies only gym, she will be telling you that she intends to cheat some time in the future.
> 
> A repentant person would abide by whatever conditions are necessary to keep them from temptation.


The issue I see here is my boundaries. In fairness I can not criticise the willingness to whatever I ask. That is why I am still one foot in. But the nature of what occurred and her response makes me think that talk is cheap and that she is clueless to boundaries. Of course I pinch myself seconds later and realize that she is not and knows exactly the score on this.


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## Marc878

Jimi007 said:


> The devil is always in the details...Just curious , how did you catch her ?
> Did you confront her affair partner ?


Unless her AP is married (always inform the other betrayed spouse) there is nothing in confronting that will benefit you. He was only taking what your wayward wife was freely giving. He’s a part of the affair but your wife is the main culprit. She knew exactly what she was doing. Every time she had unprotected sex she made that decision.


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## Gregory Chaucery

SMFD01 said:


> The issue I see here is my boundaries. In fairness I can not criticise the willingness to whatever I ask. That is why I am still one foot in. But the nature of what occurred and her response makes me think that talk is cheap and that she is clueless to boundaries. Of course I pinch myself seconds later and realize that she is not and knows exactly the score on this.


Your boundaries, because she cheated, are whatever you want to impose upon her in order to stay in the marriage.


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## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> The issue I see here is my boundaries. In fairness I can not criticise the willingness to whatever I ask. That is why I am still one foot in. But the nature of what occurred and her response makes me think that talk is cheap and that she is clueless to boundaries. Of course I pinch myself seconds later and realize that she is not and knows exactly the score on this.


Do you really want a wife you have to be a marriage warden for? She’s a big girl. You shouldn’t have to tell her not to have unprotected sex with other men. Cmon man. Wake up.
You did get her tested for STD ‘s I hope.


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## SMFD01

Andy1001 said:


> Buddy it seems that your wife’s fallback plan in any situation that makes her feel guilty is to turn on the waterworks. Think is manipulative behaviour plain and simple.
> You should have gotten every last detail of her previous affair. How often they had sex, what did they do as in oral, anal etc. Did she do things with him that she won’t do with you.
> You have to remember that she was only sorry when she got caught, in other words she was sorry she got caught and that’s all.



I agree, I have raised it and been incredibly blunt. It just angers me, nothing more.

As to the affair - everything written down in detail. Every detail, no matter how painful to me. There is nothing that she will not and does not do with me. Our relationship at a glance was very solid 

Absolutely agree about the sorry. That has been kicked straight back at her regularly. She thought she could control it as a one time thing or occasional sex as it was "hot and sticky being illicit, good sex and he had a good body". One entitled person. of course it went on - she was one on one contact 4 times per week (Was recovering from long Covid in a pretty bad way).

As for sex with AP, yep she did everything other than Anal, but pretty sure that was just as it did not suit. Including unprotected, which makes me want to puke.


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## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Sorry you’re in this crap.
> Most don’t want to end their marriage but she was the one who ended it with her affair.
> Reconciliation is a remarriage. Would you marry her now?
> A lot upfront don’t think longterm. Unfortunately for you this is something you have to live with permanently.
> Not to mention the capability for repeated infidelity is there. Lack of trust is a huge problem.
> She mad a choice to cheat. You have a choice too.
> I suspect like a lot the tears are for her. Not you.


I think you are correct here for sure. I am trying to come to terms with financials and my Son etc. 

The tears are for her and her loss yes. No crying beforehand.


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## Marc878

Most upfront just want them back without thinking. It’s the shock. Then realization can set in.
You should always take time to think about trying to reconcile before jumping right in without a plan or consequences. It’s a long hard process with no guarantees and without a remorseful spouse who is willing to fix themselves and pull the heavier load it’s impossible.
You are not in reconciliation. It’s more of a rugsweep. What’s she changed?


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## Bulfrog1987

If I may, as I have been the wife who stepped out unfortunately.. first off, I would never return to a gym in the immediate aftermath. Not saying not ever, but at least for a while. If I was set on making amends, that would be my first thing.

You say there’s no reason on your part she would have stepped out. If that’s the case, I agree with another poster that attention is something she’ll cave for. That’s a tricky thing. You can’t control her actions, not that you want to. But the ball is in her court.

Inevitably, my affair was my choice. My husband was not present, he was drinking ever single night, coming to bed to get some and then returning to the bottle to finish it off. Night after night, this guy showed me the slightest bit of attention and I lost my mind. It didn’t help that he was kind to me, just talked with me, didn’t even try to get physical. That actually drove my response to make it a physical affair.

Anyway, I should have left my marriage before I had an affair and even given my husbands issues and treatment of me, I still made the choice, it was my own fault. And I did love my husband, I was just desperately lonely. So I say all that to follow with this.. when my husband found out, I was COMPLETELY honest. I did everything in my power to show him how sorry I was, I even quit my job a few months later so I wouldn’t possibly run into this guy. He did work on HVAC for the place I worked and there was a chance he would show up and need to work on something. Do you get my point? 

Now, I was pentenant. Word usage? I was sorry, I wanted to save my marriage. BUT I couldn’t do it alone. I couldn’t do anymore to show how sorry I was than I was doing and it was never enough. I spent the next 12 years in purgatory and my husband never changed either. He remained settled in his alcoholism, he help my affair over me constantly and verbally and mentally abused me for it all over the years. 

So if you’re not ever going to be able to fully let itgo at some point (and you should know in your heart now the answer to that) don’t waste your time or hers. And I’m not saying you should let it go, it doesn’t sound like she’s truly worry or if she is she doesn’t get you’re going to be triggered and you’re allowed to be. There is a point however, if she’s done all she can (I don’t think she has) that you will need to let those by gones be by gones.


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## bobert

SMFD01 said:


> The mental health is a bit more of an issue, I honestly am considering having her in an ambulance next time. As I am past dealing with that. When she is restrained to a bed medicated......maybe that will give her pause for thought.


If she's threatening suicide, then call 911. That being said, unless she has a history of attempting suicide or has a plan in place _and_ has taken steps to execute that plan, they may not keep her. If they do, it's not like the movies. Don't expect her to be in soft restraints and drugged to oblivion.


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## SMFD01

Jimi007 said:


> The devil is always in the details...Just curious , how did you catch her ?
> Did you confront her affair partner ?


I knew but did not know. No idea what alerted me in honesty as very cleanly operated. 

Messages in the end, she was completely open with phone at all times......

So I placed app tracker for time allowance onto phone and noted 18hours insta gram per week. Waited, she is employed by me, I walked out between pts and took the phone and last string of messages had not yet been deleted.

Confronted straight away.

Trickle truth for 3 hours and then got a grip of reality when I lost the plot.

Affair partner was a friend, I trained with him also.

I called immediately and placed him on standby. Went around for a visit and chat and of course he is crying like a child and begging forgiveness. At this stage I only knew that it was a one time thing and so let it go. If I had of known extent or been quick enough in my shock, that would have been different.

Wife wrote immediate no contact the next morning and wrote to apologise to his long term partner also.

It was escalating. He was pushing for regular non protected sex and long term. Also out of gym meets at hotels and the usual ******** messages of "I would massage you to sleep and f+_{k you all night etc.

Wife claims she was trying to end it at this point in a controlled fashion as guilt and understanding with realisation of damaging me and the family started to really break through. But she would say that. At no point was she going to leave, of that I am sure. As she has a backup no2 at home paying for her and child in private school. Why would she. Cake eating at the very best.

The start point was familiarity one on one and exercise. He did push initial moves etc, but that makes no difference. The signals were given obviously.


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## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Unless her AP is married (always inform the other betrayed spouse) there is nothing in confronting that will benefit you. He was only taking what your wayward wife was freely giving. He’s a part of the affair but your wife is the main culprit. She knew exactly what she was doing. Every time she had unprotected sex she made that decision.


Agreed, he was a supposed good friend on personal and professional level also. Hence I went to see him, about his lack of code and to explain how it is supposed to work. Did not blame him for taking her, as it was given. I am unsure if it is finished business between us, as it was personal, but we will see.


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## Evinrude58

SMFD01 said:


> Thanks for comment. Are we saying that basically never to be trusted? Or that trust takes a long time to earn or what. I am trying to understand the benefit of not leaving the house alone at this stage. I take your advice as intended for sure, just trying to understand the entire picture from experience of others?


Yours most definitely cannot be trusted and I’d bet my next paycheck that as soon as she feels secure again that you won’t dump her like you should, she’ll be with the next gym rat. You’re training her to cheat.


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## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> Agreed, he was a supposed good friend on personal and professional level also. Hence I went to see him, about his lack of code and to explain how it is supposed to work. Did not blame him for taking her, as it was given. I am unsure if it is finished business between us, as it was personal, but we will see.


Cmon man! You should not have to explain to a grown man not to have sex with your wife behind your back. 
You have seen who he is. He has shown you. If he’s married you should inform his wife. She deserves to know what she’s married to.
Definition of friend - loyal, honest and trustworthy. He’s a snake.


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## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> Affair partner was a friend, I trained with him also.
> *Nope, he’s a snake *
> 
> I called immediately and placed him on standby. Went around for a visit and chat and of course he is crying like a child and begging forgiveness. At this stage I only knew that it was a one time thing and so let it go. If I had of known extent or been quick enough in my shock, that would have been different.
> *He was crying because he got caught. He manipulated you to get himself off the hook.*
> 
> Wife wrote immediate no contact the next morning and wrote to apologise to his long term partner also.
> 
> It was escalating. He was pushing for regular non protected sex and long term. Also out of gym meets at hotels and the usual ****** messages of "I would massage you to sleep and f+_{k you all night etc.
> *Only a horrible person would do this. He can never be trusted. If you’re smart you’ll cut him out of your life permanently. He’s clearly shown you he’s a snake.*
> 
> Wife claims she was trying to end it at this point in a controlled fashion as guilt and understanding with realisation of damaging me and the family started to really break through. But she would say that. At no point was she going to leave, of that I am sure. As she has a backup no2 at home paying for her and child in private school. Why would she. Cake eating at the very best.
> *This is a common lie all cheaters tell. *
> 
> The start point was familiarity one on one and exercise. He did push initial moves etc, but that makes no difference. The signals were given obviously.


Stop being naive and letting yourself get played and manipulated. Words and talk won’t get you what you think they will.


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## Works

Marc878 said:


> Cmon man! You should not have to explain to a grown man not to have sex with your wife behind your back.
> You have seen who he is. He has shown you. If he’s married you should inform his wife. She deserves to know what she’s married to.
> Definition of friend - loyal, honest and trustworthy. He’s a snake.


Isn't this the stage called denial?

OP, what exactly are you trying to reconcile here?


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## *Deidre*

Sounds like a lot of stress to stay together. Cheating is a deal breaker for me, not because I wouldn’t be able to forgive my husband but because what you describe, is what I’d fear my life would become - always wondering and worried it would happen again. If men flirt with me, I don’t “report” back to my husband with the details. I handle it, brush it off and move on.

This isn’t to say your marriage can’t survive infidelity but there is a reason many people find it to be a dealbreaker. The trust would be gone forever and I’m not interested in babysitting my husband and monitoring where he goes, etc…

Just food for thought. Your wife may never cheat again but you may always wonder.


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## SMFD01

Bulfrog1987 said:


> If I may, as I have been the wife who stepped out unfortunately.. first off, I would never return to a gym in the immediate aftermath. Not saying not ever, but at least for a while. If I was set on making amends, that would be my first thing.
> 
> You say there’s no reason on your part she would have stepped out. If that’s the case, I agree with another poster that attention is something she’ll cave for. That’s a tricky thing. You can’t control her actions, not that you want to. But the ball is in her court.
> 
> Inevitably, my affair was my choice. My husband was not present, he was drinking ever single night, coming to bed to get some and then returning to the bottle to finish it off. Night after night, this guy showed me the slightest bit of attention and I lost my mind. It didn’t help that he was kind to me, just talked with me, didn’t even try to get physical. That actually drove my response to make it a physical affair.
> 
> Anyway, I should have left my marriage before I had an affair and even given my husbands issues and treatment of me, I still made the choice, it was my own fault. And I did love my husband, I was just desperately lonely. So I say all that to follow with this.. when my husband found out, I was COMPLETELY honest. I did everything in my power to show him how sorry I was, I even quit my job a few months later so I wouldn’t possibly run into this guy. He did work on HVAC for the place I worked and there was a chance he would show up and need to work on something. Do you get my point?
> 
> Now, I was pentenant. Word usage? I was sorry, I wanted to save my marriage. BUT I couldn’t do it alone. I couldn’t do anymore to show how sorry I was than I was doing and it was never enough. I spent the next 12 years in purgatory and my husband never changed either. He remained settled in his alcoholism, he help my affair over me constantly and verbally and mentally abused me for it all over the years.
> 
> So if you’re not ever going to be able to fully let itgo at some point (and you should know in your heart now the answer to that) don’t waste your time or hers. And I’m not saying you should let it go, it doesn’t sound like she’s truly worry or if she is she doesn’t get you’re going to be triggered and you’re allowed to be. There is a point however, if she’s done all she can (I don’t think she has) that you will need to let those by gones be by gones.



Thank you for sharing this, I am very appreciative.

I am able to compartmentalise very well, emotionally and at work. Hence I truly believe that I can recover. Being brutally honest, I also believe that I can walk away and be good if not better, so an attachment fear is not present. 

My wife is incredibly upset and suicidal if we push into discussion, starts to spiral into a maniac - completely out of character and quite concerning.

She has offered everything in general.

But I was and am shocked at last nights revelation with the chat issue at the gym. She told be yes, but it just should not have happened and I am unsure if I am being crazy sensitive here or if that was evidence of no reform?


----------



## SMFD01

Works said:


> Isn't this the stage called denial?
> 
> OP, what exactly are you trying to reconcile here?


Good point. Reality check received and I am thinking on this. The past 10 years prior was a great ride. Sunken cost fallacy.


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Do you really want a wife you have to be a marriage warden for? She’s a big girl. You shouldn’t have to tell her not to have unprotected sex with other men. Cmon man. Wake up.
> You did get her tested for STD ‘s I hope.


Absolutely did. She was tested twice.


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Stop being naive and letting yourself get played and manipulated. Words and talk won’t get you what you think they will.


Agreed here and yes that was what they both were. You on opinion of get rid in all cases?


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Stop being naive and letting yourself get played and manipulated. Words and talk won’t get you what you think they will.


Thanks you for this whole reply btw.

Of course he is finished, I am unsure as to reaction if I even see him again.

Yes hook line and sinker 🤬


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> Thank you for sharing this, I am very appreciative.
> 
> I am able to compartmentalise very well, emotionally and at work. Hence I truly believe that I can recover. Being brutally honest, I also believe that I can walk away and be good if not better, so an attachment fear is not present.
> 
> My wife is incredibly upset and suicidal if we push into discussion, starts to spiral into a maniac - completely out of character and quite concerning.
> *Manipulation to maintain and get what she wants. It’s worked. *
> 
> She has offered everything in general.
> *Words versus actions.*
> 
> But I was and am shocked at last nights revelation with the chat issue at the gym. She told be yes, but it just should not have happened and I am unsure if I am being crazy sensitive here or if that was evidence of no reform?


It’s words versus actions.


----------



## Marc878

Any one on one time or interaction can very easily go down the slippery slope.
If you walk on the ledge you can fall off. If you stay away from the ledge you can’t.
You alone cannot fix anything. Right now you are keeping yourself stuck.
There’s nothing easy about situations like this. 
She probably doesn’t want any discussions because she doesn’t want to be reminded of who she is. So she goes into protection mode. It’s worked so far.


----------



## Evinrude58

SMFD01 said:


> Thank you for sharing this, I am very appreciative.
> 
> I am able to compartmentalise very well, emotionally and at work. Hence I truly believe that I can recover. Being brutally honest, I also believe that I can walk away and be good if not better, so an attachment fear is not present.
> 
> My wife is incredibly upset and suicidal if we push into discussion, starts to spiral into a maniac - completely out of character and quite concerning.
> 
> She has offered everything in general.
> 
> But I was and am shocked at last nights revelation with the chat issue at the gym. She told be yes, but it just should not have happened and I am unsure if I am being crazy sensitive here or if that was evidence of no reform?


Suicide threats is what a lot of manipulators do to avoid discussions about their misdeeds.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> Thanks you for this whole reply btw.
> 
> Of course he is finished, I am unsure as to reaction if I even see him again.
> 
> Yes hook line and sinker 🤬


If it were me I’d ignore him. He doesn’t deserve a minute of your time. I’m particular with who I associate with. Why be around scumbags? Life is too short. Snakes tend to bite you as you’ve witnessed.


----------



## Gabriel

Your wife is a master manipulator. She threatens suicide to get you to back off. She cries whenever she wants to escape her wrongdoings. 

And it's worked. She's kept you, and is back at a co-ed gym. Probably being a good girl for awhile, but ripe for another affair, because she knows all she has to do is threaten suicide and cry again to get out of trouble.

She did all the right things on paper: no-contact letter, transparent phone, informing you of her last gym interaction. So she probably feels like she's following the rules. And maybe she is. For now.

But remember, everything she's doing is very intentional....


----------



## Marc878

Most here have been where you are. I know it’s hard to take but the ones who get strong and stay there always come out best.


----------



## *Deidre*

Gabriel said:


> Your wife is a master manipulator. She threatens suicide to get you to back off. She cries whenever she wants to escape her wrongdoings.
> 
> And it's worked. She's kept you, and is back at a co-ed gym. Probably being a good girl for awhile, but ripe for another affair, because she knows all she has to do is threaten suicide and cry again to get out of trouble.
> 
> She did all the right things on paper: no-contact letter, transparent phone, informing you of her last gym interaction. So she probably feels like she's following the rules. And maybe she is. For now.
> 
> But remember, everything she's doing is very intentional....


This x 1000

OP, you should say one day ''I was thinking, let's start going to the gym together.'' If her faces turns grey from fright, you have your answer as to if she's ''changing.'' 

People can make mistakes. But, I think your wife is a manipulator, too and not so sure she is contrite as much as she just fears losing the life she has with you, not necessarily losing you.


----------



## bobert

If she was actually suicidal (or manic), it wouldn't turn off and on.


----------



## Jimi007

Bulfrog1987 said:


> If I may, as I have been the wife who stepped out unfortunately.. first off, I would never return to a gym in the immediate aftermath. Not saying not ever, but at least for a while. If I was set on making amends, that would be my first thing.
> 
> You say there’s no reason on your part she would have stepped out. If that’s the case, I agree with another poster that attention is something she’ll cave for. That’s a tricky thing. You can’t control her actions, not that you want to. But the ball is in her court.
> 
> Inevitably, my affair was my choice. My husband was not present, he was drinking ever single night, coming to bed to get some and then returning to the bottle to finish it off. Night after night, this guy showed me the slightest bit of attention and I lost my mind. It didn’t help that he was kind to me, just talked with me, didn’t even try to get physical. That actually drove my response to make it a physical affair.
> 
> Anyway, I should have left my marriage before I had an affair and even given my husbands issues and treatment of me, I still made the choice, it was my own fault. And I did love my husband, I was just desperately lonely. So I say all that to follow with this.. when my husband found out, I was COMPLETELY honest. I did everything in my power to show him how sorry I was, I even quit my job a few months later so I wouldn’t possibly run into this guy. He did work on HVAC for the place I worked and there was a chance he would show up and need to work on something. Do you get my point?
> 
> Now, I was pentenant. Word usage? I was sorry, I wanted to save my marriage. BUT I couldn’t do it alone. I couldn’t do anymore to show how sorry I was than I was doing and it was never enough. I spent the next 12 years in purgatory and my husband never changed either. He remained settled in his alcoholism, he help my affair over me constantly and verbally and mentally abused me for it all over the years.
> 
> So if you’re not ever going to be able to fully let itgo at some point (and you should know in your heart now the answer to that) don’t waste your time or hers. And I’m not saying you should let it go, it doesn’t sound like she’s truly worry or if she is she doesn’t get you’re going to be triggered and you’re allowed to be. There is a point however, if she’s done all she can (I don’t think she has) that you will need to let those by gones be by gones.


I admire your extreme honesty...Shows you have grown from your experience


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Any one on one time or interaction can very easily go down the slippery slope.
> If you walk on the ledge you can fall off. If you stay away from the ledge you can’t.
> You alone cannot fix anything. Right now you are keeping yourself stuck.
> There’s nothing easy about situations like this.
> She probably doesn’t want any discussions because she doesn’t want to be reminded of who she is. So she goes into protection mode. It’s worked so far.


 I believe you are correct. 

We crossed here in thoughts. I pulled this up and lunch. She has been collected by parents and on way to hospital for not being able to break from suicidal thoughts. Full breakdown begging etc. But it when forced to face what she is - she has just admitted it.


----------



## ConanHub

Your wife is no wife.

She needs to grow up, work on her character for a long time, proving she is an adult and get professional help hopefully to be able to establish healthy boundaries for herself and then, and only then, she might be ready for marriage.

In the meantime, are you going to be twiddling your thumbs?

Is the ridiculous mess she is really worth your time?

There isn't any indication she is even ready to commit to the aforementioned work to become a suitable wife.

She is an alley cat and you wifed her up. Putting a ring on her didn't change what she is.

She isn't even willing to face what she is to see where changes need to be made.

I think you could easily do better by marrying an adult human female.

They still exist. I've been with mine for 31 years.😉


----------



## blackclover3

I'm just blown away to why you are still with her - she is not the last woman in the world you know.

Suicidal/mental health,,,,, all of that is not your problem. we dont see every mental health patient goes and F their gym partners.
Suicidal is a leash to hold you back - why do you even care? she was banging another guy while you were home or working (unprotected - risking your life and your son's)
the fact she dismissed your feelings when she talked to "Thor" tells me that she was sorry for the first affair because she got caught and doesn't comprehends the amount of damage she caused.

I'm against staying with cheaters and the only time I believe a cheater when they step forward and confess to an affair before their spouses suspect or find out.

cut your losses and start looking for a new life - otherwise you will be here again few years down the road


----------



## Marc878

[


SMFD01 said:


> Agreed here and yes that was what they both were. You on opinion of get rid in all cases?


The so called friend I’d cut out completely, permanently.
Your wife in order to try should meet the minimum.
Remorse not regret at getting caught.
Zero contact with AP and any one on one contact permanently.
Ability to carry the heavier load.
Permanent boundaries.
Actions not words

If you don’t have these as a minimum you could easily get a repeat. If she can’t fix herself no one can.
Hiding behind tears, etc. isn’t getting anything accomplished.
Skip any marriage counseling. The marriage is not broken, she is. MC’s from what I’ve seen are notorious rug sweepers.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> I believe you are correct.
> 
> We crossed here in thoughts. I pulled this up and lunch. She has been collected by parents and on way to hospital for not being able to break from suicidal thoughts. Full breakdown begging etc. But it when forced to face what she is - she has just admitted it.


Sorry. The good thing is now professional help is in place. That really doesn’t change anything.
Is this something you can live with? Do you want to put in the minimum of 2-5 years if it’s even possible?
Be warned most have no experience with the devastation of infidelity. Parents, clergy, marriage counselors, etc. will almost always recommend just staying together.
You do have a choice.


----------



## Marc878

Cheaters never think of consequences. It’s not part of their ongoing fantasy.
Affairs trump marriage, family and their spouses. Nothing else matters but their affair.


----------



## SMFD01

bobert said:


> If she was actually suicidal (or manic), it wouldn't turn off and on.


It does ent, just remains constant in the background 24/7 apparently and then blows to a higher level. Not sure in honestly. But no excuses still.


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Cheaters never think of consequences. It’s not part of their ongoing fantasy.
> Affairs trump marriage, family and their spouses. Nothing else matters but their affair.


She even says so herself. That she compartmentalised entirely and completely ignored or pushed away thoughts of consequence as it felt good to do. Could not make these folks up.


----------



## Bulfrog1987

SMFD01 said:


> Thank you for sharing this, I am very appreciative.
> 
> I am able to compartmentalise very well, emotionally and at work. Hence I truly believe that I can recover. Being brutally honest, I also believe that I can walk away and be good if not better, so an attachment fear is not present.
> 
> My wife is incredibly upset and suicidal if we push into discussion, starts to spiral into a maniac - completely out of character and quite concerning.
> 
> She has offered everything in general.
> 
> But I was and am shocked at last nights revelation with the chat issue at the gym. She told be yes, but it just should not have happened and I am unsure if I am being crazy sensitive here or if that was evidence of no reform?


I personally feel she should be more sensitive. To think there would never be an exchange Dr a gym at some point is a little much to expect. However she should be ****ting them down beyond a, are you done here?

Hence why she probably shouldn’t be at a gym currently. Also, as far as suicide. My husband killed himself this past March. He also tried to pull that with me when he found out about the affair. At first he had a gun out to go kill the OM. Then he started the I’ll just kill myself bit. Anyhow…. The reasons behind his actually suicide are far far deeper than my affair more than a decade ago.

His childhood abuse, shady things he may have done way back in the day plaguing over him, the way he treated me, loss of a son.. and whatever else he refuses to get help for. If your wife is threatening this, call the police right away. First off? You wanna know you did everything you could to
help, secondly, she needs to know it’s not a game and using that as a sympathy card will not be tolerated.


----------



## Bulfrog1987

Jimi007 said:


> I admire your extreme honesty...Shows you have grown from your experience


It’s taken a long while to get to the point I could share for fear of being shamed. I’m regretful that’s for certain. I won’t live in the shame of it anymore though.


----------



## Evinrude58

Admitting she cheated, how she felt, what she did, that she wishes she didn’t do it, being suicidal….. these are all things that drug addicts do and say….. they still go back to the drug. Don’t think for one second that it is a change in her. 

I personally think you should divorce her. It’s rare that we see truly repentant cheaters, and she doesn’t sound like one of them. She sounds like a woman in emergency defense mode. Scared you will do what she knows you should do—- divorce her.

Hey, if you divorce her and she still can convince you that it’s only you she wants, you can always date her again. My suspicion is once you aren’t responsible anymore for her abd you withdraw financial assistance, you’ll be demonized abd she will immediately “fall in love” with a new guy.


----------



## Jimi007

SMFD01 said:


> She even says so herself. That she compartmentalised entirely and completely ignored or pushed away thoughts of consequence as it felt good to do. Could not make these folks up.


Honestly...I can totally understand that...The cheater mindset...That tingle between her legs...


----------



## Jimi007

Once they get the tingle , without boundaries it takes over everything ... Just like a guy..A stiff d# ick has no conscious ...It like a drug that they crave, both sexes


----------



## BigDaddyNY

SMFD01 said:


> From my point, I am thinking:
> 
> So the guy you found hot and looks like Thor (he does not in any way) happened to speak and chat up, trying to escalate with you in a gym. A married women in supposed reconciliation, whilst not hitting on the myriad of other largely single women in the place. What a coincidence ehhh? You shut him down by being polite and allowing escalation and a bit of pick up skills practice in terms of touch escalation with fist bumping.


Sorry OP, I think reconciling with her is a huge mistake. She just isn't loyal, faithful marriage material. Fresh out of a months long affair why a gym rat and she thinks it is a good idea to come home and talk about the hot guy at the gym complimenting her. Come on, that is just too much.


----------



## re16

SMFD01 said:


> My wife is incredibly upset and suicidal if we push into discussion, starts to spiral into a maniac - completely out of character and quite concerning.


This is all about her, she had to create a situation that was more dramatic than the affair, to let it take precedence over the affair.

There is absolutely no way you should trust her at all at this point. That would take many years of proving herself over and over.

Not sure why you would want that. Statistics are heavily against you having a successful marriage after this, and that doesn't even factor in her "mental health issues".

I think your wife has shown you her true self, a selfish manipulator, and she fits the mold for a cheater that thrives on validation. You need to cut your losses and move on.

Sounds like you need to work on your picking / screening process if this is the second time this has happened to you. I would assume there were red flags early on....


----------



## Enigmatic

Look at the dialog again. He's not hitting on her; _she's hitting on him. _


----------



## 342693

Never stay with someone that cheated. Period. It willl negatively affect your life forever. If he/she is 5 mins late coming home, you will always wonder if they are cheating. 

Stress is a killer. And you will have enough in your life that you sure as heck don’t need it in your home. Find someone that will respect you


----------



## Tdbo

You need to deal with this from a position of strength.
You gain that strength by seeing a solicitor and having her served.
I would have no trust in her. She has done nothing to earn it.
Obviously, she has taken quite the opposite tact.
She has undermined trust that you have placed in her, and done both you and your kids dirty.
Right now, she is manipulating you for her benefit.
Put the onus on her to save your relationship, if it is that valuable to her.
Make her do the damn work to clean up the mess that she made.
This should be the only input you provide to her:









How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair


As an infidelity specialist for 23 years, therapist Linda J. MacDonald has identified behaviors and attitudes that determine unfaithful p...



www.goodreads.com





If she can do that on terms that are beneficial to you and the kids, then perhaps you can ratchet the proceedings back if she can present and adhere to a narrowly defined path to work her way back to the good graces of you and the family.
Don't allow her to manipulate through threats of harm.
Should she do that, all she is owed is a call to Emergency Services.
Study up on and implement the 180. It is your friend.
Her Gym days need to be over, seeing that she is unable to control her loins in such a venue.
You know your needs better than any of us, and you know what you want.
Frankly, if I were in your situation, I'd be done (and she'd be gone.)


----------



## Works

Enigmatic said:


> Look at the dialog again. He's not hitting on her; _she's hitting on him. _


That's exactly how I read it! And she kept going.


----------



## TRy

SMFD01 said:


> She is a model wife in every other aspect except the cheating


I know you immediately qualified this statement, but it still made me think of a quote years ago by Mayor Barry defending the high murder rate of Washington D.C., “Except for the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country.”


----------



## lifeistooshort

FYI, the suicide thing was a manipulation tactic. That alone tells me she isn't good partner material. Throw in the need for attention and she'll probably do it again.

But I agree she shouldn't be at the gym and you shouldn't have to tell her that.


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Sorry. The good thing is now professional help is in place. That really doesn’t change anything.
> Is this something you can live with? Do you want to put in the minimum of 2-5 years if it’s even possible?
> Be warned most have no experience with the devastation of infidelity. Parents, clergy, marriage counselors, etc. will almost always recommend just staying together.
> You do have a choice.


I get that


Bulfrog1987 said:


> I personally feel she should be more sensitive. To think there would never be an exchange Dr a gym at some point is a little much to expect. However she should be ****ting them down beyond a, are you done here?
> 
> Hence why she probably shouldn’t be at a gym currently. Also, as far as suicide. My husband killed himself this past March. He also tried to pull that with me when he found out about the affair. At first he had a gun out to go kill the OM. Then he started the I’ll just kill myself bit. Anyhow…. The reasons behind his actually suicide are far far deeper than my affair more than a decade ago.
> 
> His childhood abuse, shady things he may have done way back in the day plaguing over him, the way he treated me, loss of a son.. and whatever else he refuses to get help for. If your wife is threatening this, call the police right away. First off? You wanna know you did everything you could to
> help, secondly, she needs to know it’s not a game and using that as a sympathy card will not be tolerated.



Thank you, the sharing of this is eye opening to the suffering others go through.

The last suggestion resonates, she was freaking out when I was calling her parents to collect today when thinking it was an ambulance. I believe that was a reveal.


----------



## SMFD01

TRy said:


> I know you immediately qualified this statement, but it still made me think of a quote years ago by Mayor Barry defending the high murder rate of Washington D.C., “Except for the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country.”


Yea, that is kinda funny and on point


----------



## SMFD01

lifeistooshort said:


> FYI, the suicide thing was a manipulation tactic. That alone tells me she isn't good partner material. Throw in the need for attention and she'll probably do it again.
> 
> But I agree she shouldn't be at the gym and you shouldn't have to tell her that.


Yes a pattern for sure.


----------



## SMFD01

BigDaddyNY said:


> Sorry OP, I think reconciling with her is a huge mistake. She just isn't loyal, faithful marriage material. Fresh out of a months long affair why a gym rat and she thinks it is a good idea to come home and talk about the hot guy at the gym complimenting her. Come on, that is just too much.


Straight to the point and covers my first question. It is not just me being a little over sensitive


----------



## SMFD01

re16 said:


> This is all about her, she had to create a situation that was more dramatic than the affair, to let it take precedence over the affair.
> 
> There is absolutely no way you should trust her at all at this point. That would take many years of proving herself over and over.
> 
> Not sure why you would want that. Statistics are heavily against you having a successful marriage after this, and that doesn't even factor in her "mental health issues".
> 
> I think your wife has shown you her true self, a selfish manipulator, and she fits the mold for a cheater that thrives on validation. You need to cut your losses and move on.
> 
> Sounds like you need to work on your picking / screening process if this is the second time this has happened to you. I would assume there were red flags early on....


I agree with this. I am still not committed fully either way in truth. But this thread is certainly provoking me to be honest with myself.

Your statements about creating more drama are massively out of character - but I also thought banging her PT 4 times a week over and over and then coming home with dirty pants and having the audacity to even look at me would have been way of court. But it does appear that way currently, she did it to herself at the end of the day and was not threatening suicide whilst choking on her meat and two veg.

Apart from me noting over eagerness to please and heightened reaction to praise from external sources. I can see nothing else. The last wife I was a kid. Should have picked up on that sociopathic demon immediately 

I tend to be overly accommodating, until I am not. My not is very bad, but as it takes so long to get there....pretty meaningless in boundaries unless I am focussed. that needs to change either way.

Captain Save a Ho needs to go.


----------



## SMFD01

lifeistooshort said:


> FYI, the suicide thing was a manipulation tactic. That alone tells me she isn't good partner material. Throw in the need for attention and she'll probably do it again.
> 
> But I agree she shouldn't be at the gym and you shouldn't have to tell her that.


She begs forgiveness and apologies for the pain caused and appears to genuinely be broken apart by the hurt caused. Are they really that good at acting?


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> If it were me I’d ignore him. He doesn’t deserve a minute of your time. I’m particular with who I associate with. Why be around scumbags? Life is too short. Snakes tend to bite you as you’ve witnessed.


For sure,

I was military at one point and rarely associate with people in general unless of high quality. Sounds sexist but it is how a judge men. This guy gave me the slip ok. Like you say snake. And thanks that calms the mind somewhat. 

You know even the wife says he is not even a patch on me I wanted him as I did not feel inferior ........I mean, that is messed up :-D


----------



## Zedd

SMFD01 said:


> Are they really that good at acting?


It may not be an act. If she's massively better off financially with you than without you, it could be real.

It doesn't mean she's remorseful for what she did. She could just be upset that she got caught.


----------



## Affaircare

SMFD01 said:


> She begs forgiveness and apologies for the pain caused and appears to genuinely be broken apart by the hurt caused. Are they really that good at acting?


I don't know that I'd call it "acting". She probably genuinely does want to be forgiven and have no consequences for her actions. But what she doesn't realize is that in an adult world--reality--you can be forgiven and you still experience the natural results of what you chose to do. Likewise for apologizing for the pain caused. She probably genuinely does feel sorry but even if your pain is "in the mix" the vast majority of what she's sorry for is that SHE is hurting and feels sad and lost someone who was close. 

See when someone sorrows for how they have acted, they stop acting that way. When someone genuinely is not thinking of themself but is thinking of the other--then there is not only willingness but eagerness to self-police and acknowlege and do the hard work of facing themselves and what's broken within that allows them to commit adultery.

I know what I'm talking about--I was unfaithful myself. My hubby didn't have to "give me a bunch of rules" and police me to see if I was following them. I WANTED to do differently than the things that lead me down that road. I was eager to be open, to discuss it, to make my own rules on myself to be different in my heart...and to examine myself. (Not at the very first, of course, but in very short order). 

So it's not really "acting." She wants you to rugsweep adultery. She feels badly about the pain she has to endure to get you back in line. Those are "real"


----------



## SMFD01

Enigmatic said:


> Look at the dialog again. He's not hitting on her; _she's hitting on him. _



Stating the obvious - so obvious I missed it...... Cheers


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Most upfront just want them back without thinking. It’s the shock. Then realization can set in.
> You should always take time to think about trying to reconcile before jumping right in without a plan or consequences. It’s a long hard process with no guarantees and without a remorseful spouse who is willing to fix themselves and pull the heavier load it’s impossible.
> You are not in reconciliation. It’s more of a rugsweep. What’s she changed?


You are right. Nothing has really changed, it is business as usual to an extent. But what should change. I am struggling with resources on this. As I say - normally a perfect wife. Which makes it sting. What action to take?


----------



## BecauseSheWeeps

While skimming through most of this.. I must say... I must be pretty ugly because NOBODY talks to me at my gym. But I also probably wouldn't notice if they did because I keep my headphones in and on with some pretty loud heavy metal. I go to the gym to work out. Not to chit chat. I think your wife was on the prowl, I'm sorry to say it. He was probably just looking for 20lbers and she seen an in. I hate being the debbie downer - I love and always want to be positive for relationships and being able to move forward but I just don't feel that for this one. I think she's looking for the next one.


----------



## Gabriel

BigDaddyNY said:


> Sorry OP, I think reconciling with her is a huge mistake. She just isn't loyal, faithful marriage material. Fresh out of a months long affair why a gym rat and she thinks it is a good idea to come home and talk about the hot guy at the gym complimenting her. Come on, that is just too much.


Yeah, describing him as "hot" is gross in this situation. Why on earth would she do that? To hurt you and make you feel insecure?


----------



## Gabriel

SMFD01 said:


> She begs forgiveness and apologies for the pain caused and appears to genuinely be broken apart by the hurt caused. Are they really that good at acting?


100% they are


----------



## SMFD01

Affaircare said:


> I don't know that I'd call it "acting". She probably genuinely does want to be forgiven and have no consequences for her actions. But what she doesn't realize is that in an adult world--reality--you can be forgiven and you still experience the natural results of what you chose to do. Likewise for apologizing for the pain caused. She probably genuinely does feel sorry but even if your pain is "in the mix" the vast majority of what she's sorry for is that SHE is hurting and feels sad and lost someone who was close.
> 
> See when someone sorrows for how they have acted, they stop acting that way. When someone genuinely is not thinking of themself but is thinking of the other--then there is not only willingness but eagerness to self-police and acknowlege and do the hard work of facing themselves and what's broken within that allows them to commit adultery.
> 
> I know what I'm talking about--I was unfaithful myself. My hubby didn't have to "give me a bunch of rules" and police me to see if I was following them. I WANTED to do differently than the things that lead me down that road. I was eager to be open, to discuss it, to make my own rules on myself to be different in my heart...and to examine myself. (Not at the very first, of course, but in very short order).
> 
> So it's not really "acting." She wants you to rugsweep adultery. She feels badly about the pain she has to endure to get you back in line. Those are "real"


That helps my understanding.

Ok, in her mind she did self police. In my mind and in hers I believe, she knows not quick enough. Is this a genuine issue or given immediate disclosure etc is that supposed progress and bad luck that she was taken unaware as she does not normally get hit on in honesty - always an insecurity. As I said to her, next it will be oh I was just bend over and.....

My only rule was zero individual only contact with any man without my consent and knowledge until I say otherwise. Likely never whilst married to me.

I agree sorry for themselves seems to be a big issue. I have to say that I see serious pain and she is a very caring and considerate person, deeply loving normally. It adds to my inner conflict.


----------



## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> Yeah, describing him as "hot" is gross in this situation. Why on earth would she do that? To hurt you and make you feel insecure?


Great gift for me ehh. I have few insecurities, good job 

If she is acting I am concerned. As I could never truly trust a human again. No circle of trust and all that.

Try to increase her self esteem and value I think. Shame as she is stunning and that is not just husband speak. She knows that beauty is not what I value.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> For sure,
> 
> I was military at one point and rarely associate with people in general unless of high quality. Sounds sexist but it is how a judge men. This guy gave me the slip ok. Like you say snake. And thanks that calms the mind somewhat.
> 
> You know even the wife says he is not even a patch on me I wanted him as I did not feel inferior ........I mean, that is messed up :-D


Yet she picked him over you, your marriage and family. Her words don’t mean much.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

SMFD01 said:


> You are right. Nothing has really changed, it is business as usual to an extent. But what should change. I am struggling with resources on this. As I say - normally a perfect wife. Which makes it sting. What action to take?


We just don't want you to rugsweep it, even if you choose to stay with her.
She must deal with that point of vulnerability.
If you rugsweep, it will always be an issue in your mind.


----------



## SMFD01

Gregory Chaucery said:


> We just don't want you to rugsweep it, even if you choose to stay with her.
> She must deal with that point of vulnerability.


I am overwhelmed by the support of you guys, truly exceptional place on the internet.

Agree with the sentiment, I have no interest in a rug sweep or being a cuckold by choice. Makes me start to rage inside to be honest.

How on earth do people deal with it? Professional only help etc? Does it ever get dealt with......


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> You are right. Nothing has really changed, it is business as usual to an extent. But what should change. I am struggling with resources on this. As I say - normally a perfect wife. Which makes it sting. What action to take?


That’s your choice to make. No one can do it for you.


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> Yet she picked him over you, your marriage and family. Her words don’t mean much.


My favourite rebuttal in fairness, just to easy. 

Her reply is to deeply apologise for hurt and explain that new monkey sex with a different person was an extravagant feeling or indulgence, like a cheap desert to be eaten when you you get Michelin graded food regularly.Different and offered something new feeling wise as it was wrong, bad and new. She apologises again and notes that no partner could live up to that new feeling found in cheating and that was why it was so sickeningly wrong and unfair.


----------



## Zedd

SMFD01 said:


> My favourite rebuttal in fairness, just to easy.
> 
> Her reply is to deeply apologise for hurt and explain that new monkey sex with a different person was an extravagant feeling or indulgence, like a cheap desert to be eaten when you you get Michelin graded food regularly.Different and offered something new feeling wise as it was wrong, bad and new. She apologises again and notes that no partner could live up to that new feeling found in cheating and that was why it was so sickeningly wrong and unfair.


Tell her you look forward to discovering that yourself soon, see how she reacts.

You don't need to mean it.

Actually, it s a passive-aggressive d-bag thing to do her, but...


----------



## marko polo

Apologies from your betrayer are meaningless.

New monkey sex with a different person was an extravagant feeling or indulgence. How creative. Since your wife has effectively opened up and ended your marriage tell her you also intend to indulge for the same length of time she did. 

Make this a requirement for reconciliation. See how quickly she will howl that it is not fair.

Frankly you should simply move straight to divorce.


----------



## BeyondRepair007

SMFD01 said:


> My favourite rebuttal in fairness, just to easy.
> 
> Her reply is to deeply apologise for hurt and explain that new monkey sex with a different person was an extravagant feeling or indulgence, like a cheap desert to be eaten when you you get Michelin graded food regularly.Different and offered something new feeling wise as it was wrong, bad and new. She apologises again and notes that no partner could live up to that new feeling found in cheating and that was why it was so sickeningly wrong and unfair.


And that new monkey sex feeling will always be there in the future, why won't she do it again?

That's the consequences part. If you decide to reconcile, the answer to that question has to be crystal clear and undeniable. And the fix has to be in place.

If you're not reconciling, then who cares. Move on.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> My favourite rebuttal in fairness, just to easy.
> 
> Her reply is to deeply apologise for hurt and explain that new monkey sex with a different person was an extravagant feeling or indulgence, like a cheap desert to be eaten when you you get Michelin graded food regularly.Different and offered something new feeling wise as it was wrong, bad and new. She apologises again and notes that no partner could live up to that new feeling found in cheating and that was why it was so sickeningly wrong and unfair.


Women normally equate sex with feelings. Not just sex. Sorry.
Sounds like shes minimizing to make it more palatable to you.


----------



## lifeistooshort

SMFD01 said:


> She begs forgiveness and apologies for the pain caused and appears to genuinely be broken apart by the hurt caused. Are they really that good at acting?


She probably does hurt.  But it didn't seem to bother her until she got caught and that's telling. 

Throwing the suicide card is highly manipulative because it forces you to back down and it becomes all about her. Someone truly remorseful and willing to face consequences might be a good reconciliation bet.

Someone who uses suicide threats is using it to control the fallout. That's poor partner material.


----------



## rugswept

SMFD01 said:


> My wife and I (dependent child 5 y/o)
> 
> are attempting to move forward toward reconciliation after her being caught red handed in a highly sexual affair with a Personal trainer during one on one studio sessions. This was ongoing for 3 months and involved significant planing and disrespect. Making it worse the scum bag guy was also a fake ' Good Buddy'.
> 
> I think I will need to post in coping with infidelity shortly also.
> 
> When caught out, she was immediately sorry, cut all contact and the usual begged to stay routine. Became suicidal and over ridden with grief and upset. Although this was after caught.....
> 
> She blames herself and claims an otherwise stellar marriage with great relationship, sex and needs being met. But has identified feeling inferior to myself (no reason from my part) and a need for attention and lust for something new in the affair fog, although it was only ever supposed to be physical she developed feelings, claiming it was not love but still sufficient to escalate to full penetration no protection because it was fun and hot.
> 
> That is a brief part of back story.
> 
> Move forward a few months and her mental health is not ideal, but a lot better, as long as I am careful not to push with discussions on what happened, although all information is disclosed as I request and is honest from what can be ascertained (potential manipulation??).
> 
> *Moving to last night*
> 
> Wife comes back from Gym - a different gym that is busy and standard. no connection with affair partner etc.
> 
> And notes that the "hot guy at gym that looks like Thor" spoke to her.
> 
> Apparently:
> 
> *W/W: Standing between squat sets*
> _Gym Rat: Walks over to Weight Rack behind_
> *W/W: Sorry am I in your way whilst removing headphones (as he was looking for some weights...)*
> _Gym Rat: Looking for 20's_
> *W/W: Oh I have them - But no way p off are you messing with me?*
> _Gym Rat: No why (smirk)_
> *W/W: As you can lift much heavier than that*
> _Gym Rat: No srs I need the 20's but you can lift 25 easily on squat!_
> *W/W: Oh ok - takes 25 from him and passes 20 kg to him*
> _Gym Rat: After his set in busy gym - comes over and fist bumps W/W see you can do it boom!_
> *W/W: ha ha yea thanks*
> _Gym Rat: Yea what you squat in squat rack?_
> *W/W: 30 - 50 as back is weak link.*
> _Gym Rat: You can do more than that and starts talking belts and shooting small talk_
> *W/W: Oh ok se you (places headphones back in)*
> 
> Now the above outside of reconciliation is enough to warrant a sharp talk between us regards boundaries. She knows too well about the birds and bees.
> 
> Being in England - in large commercial Gyms, we do not small talk and in fact eye contact is weird or not really a done thing. Girls are never really being talked to, certainly by strangers. (I work out hard 6 days per week).
> 
> The guy was hitting on her and I am not particular concerned either way on that under typical circumstances, as we can only manage our own actions and not others.
> 
> My wife returns home and explains the above to me. Now I am struggling and really triggered and angry.
> 
> The main reason I think, is that the location - Gym and connection of this activity to her cheating ways.
> 
> But also wife thinks she had been 'good' and set up strong boundaries.
> 
> If I was standing in the same position and when the other girls in the gym are standing in that position etc - they simply ignore those around and conversation does not happen, if it does occur it would transpire as "I will have finished the 20's finished in 5 dude" the end.
> 
> From my point, I am thinking:
> 
> So the guy you found hot and looks like Thor (he does not in any way) happened to speak and chat up, trying to escalate with you in a gym. A married women in supposed reconciliation, whilst not hitting on the myriad of other largely single women in the place. What a coincidence ehhh? You shut him down by being polite and allowing escalation and a bit of pick up skills practice in terms of touch escalation with fist bumping.
> 
> Ok sounds completely legitimate.
> 
> Any thoughts on this to help?


My opinion of her rhymes with Thor.


----------



## Marc878

I suspect if you saw all the messages between them you’d see I love you, etc. being past back and forth.


----------



## Gabriel

SMFD01 said:


> I am overwhelmed by the support of you guys, truly exceptional place on the internet.
> 
> Agree with the sentiment, I have no interest in a rug sweep or being a cuckold by choice. Makes me start to rage inside to be honest.
> 
> How on earth do people deal with it? Professional only help etc? Does it ever get dealt with......


Most marriages do not survive a full sexual affair. I'd gather to say 10%? 

It takes 2-5 years to "get over" an affair of any kind.


----------



## Gabriel

Marc878 said:


> I suspect if you saw all the messages between them you’d see I love you, etc. being past back and forth.


Yes, ask to see those messages. If she says she deleted them, tell her you will have a program installed to retrieve them. You know someone that can do it (bluff).

She will crap her pants in panic. 

You KNOW they were exchanging naughty messages, lovey messages and probably even messages about how inadequate you are. That's what they do.

OP, you even said in your first post that she developed feelings "not love but enough for full penetration" - penetration does not require feelings, and if she said she had ANY feelings that means she loved him.


----------



## Evinrude58

Pretty good play on her part. She feigns suicide desire, gets put in hospital, gets sympathy from all involved, trumps all discussions pertaining to infidelity.

She’ll have a shrink telling you that you can’t bring this up, can’t make her upset, etc etc. 

To answer your previous question about acting.

It must have been quite an Oscar worthy performance how she ACTED the faithful bride for quite a long time, while she was (in her own words) having monkey sex with another man that her partner couldn’t possibly equal.

Yeah, cheaters are good actors. Right now she’s acting sorry.

Question: ARe you. Really good provider? It may be your wallet she fears the loss of, and not you.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Gym-rat 1 who you considered a "friend" rails your wife with her full and enthusiastic participation and she's still under the same roof with you?

She tells you about flirtation with gym-rat 2 Thor and makes herself out to be a good woman now because she had some "boundaries" aka she didn't drop to the floor for him, and she's still under the same roof with you?

Nah, no woman is worth enough to take that much disrespect and abuse from. She has zero respect for you. Her sexual attraction towards you is lukewarm at best. How can you stand her backstabbing presence?

None of this makes the slightest sense to me.


----------



## ConanHub

"Captain save a ho!" 😂


----------



## QuietRiot

SMFD01 said:


> I am overwhelmed by the support of you guys, truly exceptional place on the internet.
> 
> Agree with the sentiment, I have no interest in a rug sweep or being a cuckold by choice. Makes me start to rage inside to be honest.
> 
> How on earth do people deal with it? Professional only help etc? Does it ever get dealt with......


My STBXH cheated with a female at his gym. Apparently this is the place to go to get an affair started because women are very obvious about what they want there, and sleazy dudes like my ex don’t even have to work for the attention if they muscle up. Just like your wife was all over Thor man. This is the conversation she TOLD you about, I wonder what her eyes looked at and what her face looked like while having this conversation? (I’m a Thor admirer myself and I can imagine.) I’m sure he knows exactly what your wife thinks of him now as well. 

All this to say, a lot of your wife’s behaviors are stunningly similar to my STBX including going back to the meat market… I mean gym… regardless of how badly it triggers you or that it’s a cheaters wonderland. And the fact she flirts up anyone and everyone in her vicinity, and acts like you should be impressed with her. This isn’t just lack of boundaries… it’s NO boundaries. That tells you that this person doesn’t give a sh!t about you, your feelings, or the damage done to you. She wants her ego kibbles and she wants to eye up her next f#ckboi to convince herself she’s thin/pretty/young/sexy or whatever thing she wants to prove to herself. You.can’t.fix.this. Believe me, I tried and failed in epic fashion. It hurts even worse the next time F.Y.I. Just move on. 

Do not believe the words. Believe the actions. A remorseful person wouldn’t step foot in the gym ever again, and you never would have even had to ask her not to. A remorseful person ANTICIPATES your needs and does whatever they can to make you feel safe with them. She’s rubbing your face in the fact she wet her panties over this guy. The next time she threatens suicide record her and call 911. Document this, you don’t need a suicidal person alone with your kids when you divorce her. Just my opinion.


----------



## lifeistooshort

QuietRiot said:


> My STBXH cheated with a female at his gym. Apparently this is the place to go to get an affair started because women are very obvious about what they want there, and sleazy dudes like my ex don’t even have to work for the attention if they muscle up. Just like your wife was all over Thor man. This is the conversation she TOLD you about, I wonder what her eyes looked at and what her face looked like while having this conversation? (I’m a Thor admirer myself and I can imagine.) I’m sure he knows exactly what your wife thinks of him now as well.
> 
> All this to say, a lot of your wife’s behaviors are stunningly similar to my STBX including going back to the meat market… I mean gym… regardless of how badly it triggers you or that it’s a cheaters wonderland. And the fact she flirts up anyone and everyone in her vicinity, and acts like you should be impressed with her. This isn’t just lack of boundaries… it’s NO boundaries. That tells you that this person doesn’t give a sh!t about you, your feelings, or the damage done to you. She wants her ego kibbles and she wants to eye up her next f#ckboi to convince herself she’s thin/pretty/young/sexy or whatever thing she wants to prove to herself. You.can’t.fix.this. Believe me, I tried and failed in epic fashion. It hurts even worse the next time F.Y.I. Just move on.
> 
> Do not believe the words. Believe the actions. A remorseful person wouldn’t step foot in the gym ever again, and you never would have even had to ask her not to. A remorseful person ANTICIPATES your needs and does whatever they can to make you feel safe with them. She’s rubbing your face in the fact she wet her panties over this guy. The next time she threatens suicide record her and call 911. Document this, you don’t need a suicidal person alone with your kids when you divorce her. Just my opinion.


And women like this get worse the older they get because they get more and more insecure and need attention to convince themselves they're still appealing.


----------



## fluffycoco

Evinrude58 said:


> Suicide threats is what a lot of manipulators do to avoid discussions about their misdeeds.




Can't agree with you more .


----------



## Enigma32

@SMFD01 A few things I want to point out here. 

Your wife is manipulating you. When she gets caught up doing things she shouldn't, like banging gym dudes, that's when she pulls out the victim routine by crying and acting suicidal. It's an act. I've been there. What this does is takes the focus off how bad she screwed you over and makes your instinct to protect her come out. It works and that's why some people play this game. Stop playing along and you will see her expression change to confusion over your lack of reaction to her being "suicidal."

I have a buddy that is a tall, good looking guy and a former competitive body builder. He owns a local gym and works as a personal trainer. Every single client he has is an obviously bored housewife who is more interested in talking to and flirting with him than they are in any of the workouts he is trying to get them to do. We used to joke that he was really a male prostitute instead of a trainer because of all the married women paying for his time. He's having sex with quite a few of them and the husbands have 0 clue.

Maybe some other gym guys will back me up on this one but as a regular gym goer for years, there's always a few ladies in there that are obviously in the gym to meet men. Does your wife always make sure to look her best at the gym? Makeup, nice leggings, sports bra maybe? We've got a couple girls in my gym that spend more time hanging out with the guys at the gym than they do working out. It's just a part of the gym culture. Your wife might switch gyms sometimes when she gets caught, but she's still the same woman.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

The gym has replaced bars, laundromats and 24 HR supermarkets as the pick up joint of choice today.


----------



## QuietRiot

lifeistooshort said:


> And women like this get worse the older they get because they get more and more insecure and need attention to convince these they're still appealing.


Yep. And my STBX has a black hole (somewhere under his six pack I assume) that never gets it’s fill of validation and attention. It just keeps growing, there is probably some mathematical equation for its rate of growth compared to volume of ego kibbles. 

These types of people can’t be fixed or changed. At best, they can manage their problems to an extent… but that would take serious discipline and control at all times, things they have already proven to be inept at. 

It’s best to leave them to their stinky gym hookups and diseases. You can’t compete with that OP, nor should you want to.


----------



## Harold Demure

For what it is worth, I think that-

1) the gym is an irrelevance because she will continue to seek out relationships/validation anywhere. Could just as easily be a grocery store if she has that mind set:
2) Very sadly, I have experience of suicide which has shown me people who are truly suicidal will actually just go ahead and do it. How often are people shocked by suicide and say they never saw it coming. Others who are “suicidal” are attention seekers. A generalisation I know, just speaking from my point of view:
3) Her mental illness is such, in my opinion, that she will not change her behaviour, just be sorry when she gets caught. I also go to a gym in the UK and totally agree about talking to other people during a work out. He hit on her, she liked and responded, and then sought your validation by saying how good she had been - she has not got a bl*#dy clue has she?
4) I think you have 2 choices. If you reconcile, this is going to go on a repeat cycle for the rest of your life. If you can live with that, fine. Otherwise, do not put yourself through unnecessary torment and pain, just finish it and do not take responsibility for her mental health issues.

Good luck in whichever path you choose.


----------



## SMFD01

Harold Demure said:


> For what it is worth, I think that-
> 
> 1) the gym is an irrelevance because she will continue to seek out relationships/validation anywhere. Could just as easily be a grocery store if she has that mind set:
> 2) Very sadly, I have experience of suicide which has shown me people who are truly suicidal will actually just go ahead and do it. How often are people shocked by suicide and say they never saw it coming. Others who are “suicidal” are attention seekers. A generalisation I know, just speaking from my point of view:
> 3) Her mental illness is such, in my opinion, that she will not change her behaviour, just be sorry when she gets caught. I also go to a gym in the UK and totally agree about talking to other people during a work out. He hit on her, she liked and responded, and then sought your validation by saying how good she had been - she has not got a bl*#dy clue has she?
> 4) I think you have 2 choices. If you reconcile, this is going to go on a repeat cycle for the rest of your life. If you can live with that, fine. Otherwise, do not put yourself through unnecessary torment and pain, just finish it and do not take responsibility for her mental health issues.
> 
> Good luck in whichever path you choose.


Thanks

I understand this point and it resonates. The reason I was actually ok with the gym trip - other than extreme nativity, despite being a man myself  was that where does the policing end?

She has had mild "hidden depression" for years apparently since teens. Likely feeling down and not depressed or as a consequence of life choices at key stages standing back. She is not in a good place at the moment, but that is not on me. I have no doubt she is a risk but it just happens that the spiral occurs when we get to the meat of a situation....

Yes """clueless""" but is she? no very smart cookie. 

Thanks for the last point. It is a conservation that is taking a lot of focus at the moment.


----------



## SMFD01

BeyondRepair007 said:


> And that new monkey sex feeling will always be there in the future, why won't she do it again?
> 
> That's the consequences part. If you decide to reconcile, the answer to that question has to be crystal clear and undeniable. And the fix has to be in place.
> *Is there a fix, is my search. I very much turned my life around at a certain point. Changed at the core. But I still hold traits.*
> 
> If you're not reconciling, then who cares. Move on.


----------



## SMFD01

Dictum Veritas said:


> Gym-rat 1 who you considered a "friend" rails your wife with her full and enthusiastic participation and she's still under the same roof with you?
> 
> She tells you about flirtation with gym-rat 2 Thor and makes herself out to be a good woman now because she had some "boundaries" aka she didn't drop to the floor for him, and she's still under the same roof with you?
> 
> Nah, no woman is worth enough to take that much disrespect and abuse from. She has zero respect for you. Her sexual attraction towards you is lukewarm at best. How can you stand her backstabbing presence?
> 
> None of this makes the slightest sense to me.


Yes I understand this sentiment. it is probably the reason that I am posting here. It fails the logic test in my mind.


----------



## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> Yes, ask to see those messages. If she says she deleted them, tell her you will have a program installed to retrieve them. You know someone that can do it (bluff).
> 
> She will crap her pants in panic.
> 
> You KNOW they were exchanging naughty messages, lovey messages and probably even messages about how inadequate you are. That's what they do.
> 
> OP, you even said in your first post that she developed feelings "not love but enough for full penetration" - penetration does not require feelings, and if she said she had ANY feelings that means she loved him.


No disagreement here. It is the one thing that I believe she is still not open about, my wife is an odd ball and can cut emotion from sex or relationships with friends etc. I believe that she fell for him to an extent but was out of depth realising she could not just end it without it coming out. Her messages and tones throughout pointed to this. She was also very direct in saying that we are friends and this is just sex.....I mean wtf? 

Yet in every other way is deeply loving to myself and family - with one hideous exception (repeated hideous exceptions in this instance). 

I recovered all messages and yes they were the typical that we expect to find on this forum. One thing, never any negatives about me, quite the opposite. The rest was just Lala land b/s.

Interestingly the AP was constant and engaging, WW passive and playing along. I message her as well and she was just talking the talk. I have no doubt that in person whilst swing monkey antics were occurring, she would make a tart blush. This makes me sick of course.


----------



## SMFD01

Evinrude58 said:


> Pretty good play on her part. She feigns suicide desire, gets put in hospital, gets sympathy from all involved, trumps all discussions pertaining to infidelity.
> 
> She’ll have a shrink telling you that you can’t bring this up, can’t make her upset, etc etc.
> 
> To answer your previous question about acting.
> 
> It must have been quite an Oscar worthy performance how she ACTED the faithful bride for quite a long time, while she was (in her own words) having monkey sex with another man that her partner couldn’t possibly equal.
> 
> Yeah, cheaters are good actors. Right now she’s acting sorry.
> 
> Question: ARe you. Really good provider? It may be your wallet she fears the loss of, and not you.


This is the essence of my thought also. What was real if anything and of course that is what it does to us.

Acting sorry - yes I see it.

I would not be surprised at all with the shrink comment. That would be a shame, as her returning to a locked door would not help either .....

From a provider perspective. Part of me says I was not as she would not step out. Then I rationalise. Close contact and proximity mixed with fantasy, he placed a move on her, she pulled back. She broke our bond at this stage and it is where it should have ended even worse case.

It progressed through close one on one private location and nonsense. 

I was ill at this stage for 2 months - made use of that well and my frame was obviously weak and she kicked me when down like a bad donkey. I would have caught on normally without a doubt.

So all the basics for the usual circus to ensue within the cheaters skill set.

Messages and her description, sex was not particularly different, but was good with AP. She claims it was just the forbidden nature and was looking to end it as the situation was not giving her anything other than that initial pursuit which was over.

But going to providing.

Loving relationship
pushed n time, but we make time - I would agree not enough
sex is kinky, freaky and at least daily for 80% of the year she is satisfied multiple times per day
house, cars, work and finances all handled
son is in loving family and well educated well behaved as a toddler 
family support locally and regular
Spontaneous actions and days are undertaken
WW looks after household chores and myself very well - she enjoys this and likes more, not less.

So I am a tad mind blown to be honest.

The secondary interaction at the different gym was what really got me. Nt sure if that triggered the initial response from me to a heightened level or what. But you guys have enforced that I am not crazy. Just gas lighted.

Sorry for word dump. Just working it through in my mind.


----------



## SMFD01

lifeistooshort said:


> And women like this get worse the older they get because they get more and more insecure and need attention to convince themselves they're still appealing.


The attention and validation is the core of this. I don't think she would gain emotional connection to a great extent or even cares. Just a user for this.

You are right on here I feel. Always been a people pleaser. Makes me sick in honesty. I have never needed external validation or praise. So it is alien to my thoughts and a reason I perhaps did not see this red flag.


----------



## SMFD01

Enigma32 said:


> @SMFD01 A few things I want to point out here.
> 
> Your wife is manipulating you. When she gets caught up doing things she shouldn't, like banging gym dudes, that's when she pulls out the victim routine by crying and acting suicidal. It's an act. I've been there. What this does is takes the focus off how bad she screwed you over and makes your instinct to protect her come out. It works and that's why some people play this game. Stop playing along and you will see her expression change to confusion over your lack of reaction to her being "suicidal."
> 
> I have a buddy that is a tall, good looking guy and a former competitive body builder. He owns a local gym and works as a personal trainer. Every single client he has is an obviously bored housewife who is more interested in talking to and flirting with him than they are in any of the workouts he is trying to get them to do. We used to joke that he was really a male prostitute instead of a trainer because of all the married women paying for his time. He's having sex with quite a few of them and the husbands have 0 clue.
> 
> Maybe some other gym guys will back me up on this one but as a regular gym goer for years, there's always a few ladies in there that are obviously in the gym to meet men. Does your wife always make sure to look her best at the gym? Makeup, nice leggings, sports bra maybe? We've got a couple girls in my gym that spend more time hanging out with the guys at the gym than they do working out. It's just a part of the gym culture. Your wife might switch gyms sometimes when she gets caught, but she's still the same woman.



I would feel better if the dude was good looking. It goes to show the fantasy nature of this entire cliche.

She trains and oft with me. We also climb, walk, hike together when time permits.

She looks good etc and I se the confidence esteem issue very much now. Attention and all that.

But normally is shy and very awkward with attention. Hmmm, she does not fit this cliche in some ways but definite in others. I am 99.9% positive she does not hang around or talk etc. Not her personalty or actions at all. But I know that she is more of an instant escalation and no talk person. Hit on once a year, 6 words and it has slipped in, is likely closer to it.
from my understand at present. 

She is a risk taker I can see, but not one that I noted prior to this thread.

I am not a couch potato BTW, 12-15% BF with athletic/good muscle mass for height and have been to extreme fitness levels in the past. I gym to gym though.....


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

SMFD01 said:


> I would feel better if the dude was good looking. It goes to show the fantasy nature of this entire cliche.
> 
> She trains and oft with me. We also climb, walk, hike together when time permits.
> 
> She looks good etc and I se the confidence esteem issue very much now. Attention and all that.
> 
> But normally is shy and very awkward with attention. Hmmm, she does not fit this cliche in some ways but definite in others. I am 99.9% positive she does not hang around or talk etc. Not her personalty or actions at all. But I know that she is more of an instant escalation and no talk person. Hit on once a year, 6 words and it has slipped in, is likely closer to it.
> from my understand at present.
> 
> She is a risk taker I can see, but not one that I noted prior to this thread.
> 
> I am not a couch potato BTW, 12-15% BF with athletic/good muscle mass for height and have been to extreme fitness levels in the past. I gym to gym though.....


It isn't uncommon for a woman to have an affair with a less attractive man than her husband.

Some here say it's because of emotional connection she makes. But there may be some element of making it seem less competitive for the husband, so he doesn't think he's competing with somebody better than him.


----------



## SMFD01

Gregory Chaucery said:


> It isn't uncommon for a woman to have an affair with a less attractive man than her husband.
> 
> Some here say it's because of emotional connection she makes. But there may be some element of making it seem less competitive for the husband, so he doesn't think he's competing with somebody better than him.


I get that.

She says that it was her own insecurity and that she knew she was above his level.......

My wife is above me with makeup on :-D But it is the package deal of course. Not that I actually gave this a thought prior.

Marvelous


----------



## Andy1001

@SMFD01 I think your wife is looking for credit for the times she doesn’t cheat. 
Let me tell you a little story. When I was younger I lived in NY with my female best friend. She had lots of friends in the fashion industry and we would often be invited to fashion shows which I attended enthusiastically lol. One night I got talking to one of the models and she came back to my place with me. The following morning when we got up I asked her if she wanted to go somewhere for breakfast. She said no because her fiancée or some of his friends might see us!
I had no idea she even had a boyfriend much less that she was engaged. I asked her why she wasn’t faithful to him and I have never forgotten her answer. She said she had been faithful “ lots of times”.
I’m afraid your wife has the same attitude.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Well, @SMFD01 , what are you going to do now? Your present actions speak louder than any words. She got to walk all over you, spit on your marriage and disrespect you in the most visceral way a woman can disrespect her husband. If she faces no or mild consequences, you might as well declare an open marriage and make peace with it, because a repeat performance is all but assured.

This is just me, but I considered it a divorce the moment my ex-wife let the POS OM inside of her. I just wasn't notified of it yet. The moment I found out the legal disillusion of the marriage was mere formality, like closing a business.

I went a step further, I considered her dead. I would never marry a woman that would do this to me and therefore, I married a fiction, because she was in reality the woman who did this to me. The fiction died when I discovered her adultery and I mourned that fiction, because it was real to me. The woman she actually turned out to be I wanted nothing to do with. Sure, she walked the same and talked the same, but I couldn't stomach the fact that I was conned into marriage by an adulteress.

What you decide to do now will define the man you will become. You need to be able to look that man in the mirror each morning and be proud of the choices you made under severe stress. You have to live with the consequences of these choices.

Your kid has to live with these choices too as the example you set now will determine how (he/she) will form relationships in future. Would you like your child to stay with someone who show them the disrespect you have received? Well your choices now will be the template for your child's future.

Did you notice the repeated use of the word "now", because imminent action is required else extended limbo will be your reality.


----------



## SMFD01

Andy1001 said:


> @SMFD01 I think your wife is looking for credit for the times she doesn’t cheat.
> Let me tell you a little story. When I was younger I lived in NY with my female best friend. She had lots of friends in the fashion industry and we would often be invited to fashion shows which I attended enthusiastically lol. One night I got talking to one of the models and she came back to my place with me. The following morning when we got up I asked her if she wanted to go somewhere for breakfast. She said no because her fiancée or some of his friends might see us!
> I had no idea she even had a boyfriend much less that she was engaged. I asked her why she wasn’t faithful to him and I have never forgotten her answer. She said she had been faithful “ lots of times”.
> I’m afraid your wife has the same attitude.


I get that, as if I should be lucky for the times she did not get banged.

The second incident on its own would have been a significant warning, without the infidelity. Mixed in though.

I have to say it is out of character. 10 years is a decent resource of scenarios to pull on. However, the current mindset of entitlement is laughable and odds with the begging and sorries etc.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Enigma32 said:


> Maybe some other gym guys will back me up on this one but as a regular gym goer for years, there's always a few ladies in there that are obviously in the gym to meet men. Does your wife always make sure to look her best at the gym? Makeup, nice leggings, sports bra maybe? We've got a couple girls in my gym that spend more time hanging out with the guys at the gym than they do working out. It's just a part of the gym culture. Your wife might switch gyms sometimes when she gets caught, but she's still the same woman.


At a big box gym, for sure. At CrossFit or something like that, not really in my experience or at least not to the same degree. I haven’t gone to those a lot but it’s basically power through the wotd as fast as possible and leave.

At something like 24 Hour Fitness the big one near me is huge, larger than a supermarket. I’d say ground zero for peacocking women and men is the cable/pull up cage and also the free weights area which is mostly open but has racks for squats and a bunch of plyo boxes. I mostly used that place for indoor basketball but I’d warm up on the treadmills before people would start showing up. Seen plenty of women in there talking to guys they didn’t walk in with, getting “help” etc… and never a drop of sweat on them.

I also am friendly with a few guys who have or currently own gyms and have (or still) work as personal trainers. Some of them have banged clients.

Anyway if she can’t be trusted around the gym I’d recommend joining a CrossFit style gym that has ladies only times.

On the other hand, after the first cheating revelation that would have been it for me. In the same position I’d ignore the suicide stuff because it’s not your problem.


----------



## Jimi007

Oh...BTW. I would have beat the F out if your friend...But that's just me...


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Jimi007 said:


> Oh...BTW. I would have beat the F out if your friend...But that's just me...


If it were still civilized times, I would have challenged him to a duel, but with the nanny state and laws as they are now, the best way to get him is through ruining his life and reputation using "administrative violence".


----------



## SMFD01

Dictum Veritas said:


> Well, @SMFD01 , what are you going to do now? Your present actions speak louder than any words. She got to walk all over you, spit on your marriage and disrespect you in the most visceral way a woman can disrespect her husband. If she faces no or mild consequences, you might as well declare an open marriage and make peace with it, because a repeat performance is all but assured.
> 
> This is just me, but I considered it a divorce the moment my ex-wife let the POS OM inside of her. I just wasn't notified of it yet. The moment I found out the legal disillusion of the marriage was mere formality, like closing a business.
> 
> I went a step further, I considered her dead. I would never marry a woman that would do this to me and therefore, I married a fiction, because she was in reality the woman who did this to me. The fiction died when I discovered her adultery and I mourned that fiction, because it was real to me. The woman she actually turned out to be I wanted nothing to do with. Sure, she walked the same and talked the same, but I couldn't stomach the fact that I was conned into marriage by an adulteress.
> 
> What you decide to do now will define the man you will become. You need to be able to look that man in the mirror each morning and be proud of the choices you made under severe stress. You have to live with the consequences of these choices.
> 
> Your kid has to live with these choices too as the example you set now will determine how (he/she) will form relationships in future. Would you like your child to stay with someone who show them the disrespect you have received? Well your choices now will be the template for your child's future.
> 
> Did you notice the repeated use of the word "now", because imminent action is required else extended limbo will be your reality.


****

A 2*4 of reality and honesty. Appreciated.


----------



## jlg07

SMFD01 said:


> For sure,
> 
> I was military at one point and rarely associate with people in general unless of high quality. Sounds sexist but it is how a judge men. This guy gave me the slip ok. Like you say snake. And thanks that calms the mind somewhat.
> 
> You know even the wife says he is not even a patch on me I wanted him as I did not feel inferior ........I mean, that is messed up :-D


Did you ever tell the AP's partner/wife about the affair? If not, you should...


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SMFD01 said:


> ****
> 
> A 2*4 of reality and honesty. Appreciated.


I'm just an old guy who lived through similar before. I made many mistakes. If I were on this board in real time back then (nothing like this existed), I would have been the subject of many, much needed reality checks myself. I wish I had some straight talk back then, because I made life altering mistakes in handling the aftermath myself.

Stay or divorce, make no mistake, your life and world view is altered by your wife's adultery. No-one comes out unscathed and we can all use advice on every step of the journey.


----------



## SMFD01

Jimi007 said:


> Oh...BTW. I would have beat the F out if your friend...But that's just me...


Yea I get that sentiment entirely. I intended to, I had the mind to do it and when it came to it ..... he dropped to his knees crying and begging forgiveness. He looked like a baby all 6ft 3, pathetic but often the way. Very sad, I am not adverse to physical altercations or the trouble and hassle that can ensue. At the time I only knew about a one off ......trickle truth on the day. I am glad that I did not know at that point as I am worth so much more than 4 years in prison and loss of everything.

The life I have forged since my ill spent younger days, is valuable and enriching. He was judged as a man and weighed in as lacking.

I have learnt from this for sure. A previous poster used the term snake and it is actually what I described him as.


----------



## SMFD01

jlg07 said:


> Did you ever tell the AP's partner/wife about the affair? If not, you should...


Not me, I asked WW if she had given thought to her. She sent a detail description and deep apology the following morning along with NC letter to him.

I would have hough, without issue.


----------



## SMFD01

Dictum Veritas said:


> I'm just an old guy who lived through similar before. I made many mistakes. If I were on this board in real time back then (nothing like this existed), I would have been the subject of many, much needed reality checks myself. I wish I had some straight talk back then, because I made life altering mistakes in handling the aftermath myself.
> 
> Stay or divorce, make no mistake, your life and world view is altered by your wife's adultery. No-one comes out unscathed and we can all use advice on every step of the journey.


I said in a previous post, that you guys have me humbled with advice and help. It means a lot at such times.

I will certainly never trust a person again, other than my mother, father or brother. Being aware of bias of course.


----------



## SMFD01

Dictum Veritas said:


> If it were still civilized times, I would have challenged him to a duel, but with the nanny state and laws as they are now, the best way to get him is through ruining his life and reputation using "administrative violence".


This is exactly my thought. 

As an insight into the mindset of complete imbeciles - AP sent an apology message and said "I hope that I can make an amend at some time in person and still train you" 

I mean yup - give me a dumb bell and your skull in the same room dude 🤔😂


----------



## ccpowerslave

SMFD01 said:


> This is exactly my thought.
> 
> As an insight into the mindset of complete imbeciles - AP sent an apology message and said "I hope that I can make an amend at some time in person and still train you"
> 
> I mean yup - give me a dumb bell and your skull in the same room dude 🤔😂


Wow that guy has huge balls or he is really stupid.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SMFD01 said:


> This is exactly my thought.
> 
> As an insight into the mindset of complete imbeciles - AP sent an apology message and said "I hope that I can make an amend at some time in person and still train you"
> 
> I mean yup - give me a dumb bell and your skull in the same room dude 🤔😂


The nerve of that POS. Nope, go after his job and reputation. He needs to be knocked down a peg or two. Now the part of this you might not want to hear. For every peg he needs to be brought down by, your wife deserves to fall two.


----------



## SMFD01

Dictum Veritas said:


> The nerve of that POS. Nope, go after his job and reputation. He needs to be knocked down a peg or two. Now the part of this you might not want to hear. For every peg he needs to be brought down by, your wife needs to fall two.


I agree, I have focussed on that and neither are close to a match for it to be considered good sport...but they wanted to play.

He really is oblivious to consequence. Physical and otherwise. The same the world over these days. If you have not been whacked in the mouth for pushing the line ever - you could think running the mouth has no end consequence. I have obsevered over the years that people think a fist cuffs will get you a few bruises and then be over and done with.

The nanny state mentioned is the best way of summing society.


----------



## ccpowerslave

SMFD01 said:


> I have obsevered over the years that people think a fist cuffs will get you a few bruises and then be over and done with.


Yeah that is definitely true. I have been on both the dispensing and receiving end, I prefer dispensing haha.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah that is definitely true. I have been on both the dispensing and receiving end, I prefer dispensing haha.


I live in South-Africa, we face, let's say, less civilized interactions perhaps a bit more than people in the first world do. I can tell you one thing, a broken nose heals pretty quick and it's not the worst thing that a man can face, but a reputation once destroyed is a life sentence, yet the worst of the two, done correctly is perfectly legal.


----------



## QuietRiot

SMFD01 said:


> I said in a previous post, that you guys have me humbled with advice and help. It means a lot at such times.
> 
> I will certainly never trust a person again, other than my mother, father or brother. Being aware of bias of course.


No. Your wife is untrustworthy. She’s proven that to you. But that doesn’t mean all people are untrustworthy. Not everyone sucks. 

By the way, it’s doesn’t matter how good you look, how good your wife looks, how good the AP looks. It has NOTHING to do with aesthetics, everything to do with the deep vulnerability to attention and validation. Seeking external fixes to internal problems. 

Right now you seem to be trying to understand and make sense of your cheater and your life with her, waxing poetic about her innermost intentions, it’s what all of us chumps do when our heart hurts, but make no mistake… it’s a way to get us back into trying to control the situation and fix it. One day, I hope you realize you lost control the moment she screwed around and you will never get it back. This kind of thinking keeps you in the sh!t longer. It muddles your decision making. 

All you need to know is she can’t be fixed, and you deserve better. There are many women that would treat you better. There are many friends that wouldn’t sleep with your wife. Your job is to go find those people.


----------



## SMFD01

QuietRiot said:


> No. Your wife is untrustworthy. She’s proven that to you. But that doesn’t mean all people are untrustworthy. Not everyone sucks.
> 
> By the way, it’s doesn’t matter how good you look, how good your wife looks, how good the AP looks. It has NOTHING to do with aesthetics, everything to do with the deep vulnerability to attention and validation. Seeking external fixes to internal problems.
> 
> Right now you seem to be trying to understand and make sense of your cheater and your life with her, waxing poetic about her innermost intentions, it’s what all of us chumps do when our heart hurts, but make no mistake… it’s a way to get us back into trying to control the situation and fix it. One day, I hope you realize you lost control the moment she screwed around and you will never get it back. This kind of thinking keeps you in the sh!t longer. It muddles your decision making.
> 
> All you need to know is she can’t be fixed, and you deserve better. There are many women that would treat you better. There are many friends that wouldn’t sleep with your wife. Your job is to go find those people.


So true. I am working on getting to the end game in my mind. I am all over the place in thought.


----------



## ConanHub

SMFD01 said:


> This is exactly my thought.
> 
> As an insight into the mindset of complete imbeciles - AP sent an apology message and said "I hope that I can make an amend at some time in person and still train you"
> 
> I mean yup - give me a dumb bell and your skull in the same room dude 🤔😂


Some serious ring time comes to mind. Perfectly legal.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

ConanHub said:


> Some serious ring time comes to mind. Perfectly legal.


If he'd agree, I suppose, but it's not a matter of honor anymore. It was better in the old days with swords and utter shame in the community should the POS refuse to duel.

What can I say, I love swords, still own a rapier, not too expensive katana (I got as a birthday present) and a foil, but I hate that personal honor doesn't count for much these days either.


----------



## ConanHub

Dictum Veritas said:


> If he'd agree, I suppose, but it's not a matter of honor anymore. It was better in the old days with swords and utter shame in the community should the POS refuse to duel.
> 
> What can I say, I love swords, still own a rapier, not too expensive katana (I got as a birthday present) and a foil, but I hate that personal honor doesn't count for much these days either.


It's pure pleasure to feel a lothario being crushed under some blows. The noises they make a satisfying too.😉


----------



## Marc878

There are no good excuses. You cannot fix her.


----------



## Gabriel

People in affairs are divorced from reality. They have NO idea the seriousness of their crimes until they are shown.

The AP saying I hope I can make amends and still train you is a perfect example. Even you, as the victimized, don't fully realize it for awhile.

My wife's AP (not physical, just emotional affair) sent me a long email saying how ashamed he was and how he considered me one of his few friends. He also said how he wanted to stay Facebook friends with us, not to comment, but to just see our lives together so he could know we were okay. Also, my wife wanted to keep his long goodbye text from him, as a memento since she was ending the friendship.

I mean, total delusion, right?? Also, even I was WAY too nice in my response. Not fully nice, but far more self deprecating that I ever should have been - when I think back on it, I hate myself. About 2 years after the incident I deleted all old messages and emails. I did, thankfully with help from TAM, make her delete the goodbye message.

Bottom line is that all parties involved are not fully sane in the weeks following the trauma of infidelity. It's a complete f*** of your mind and soul. You rationalize things and think things that later will make you vomit. 

Hopefully we are all beating this out of you, bit by bit, on this forum.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

ccpowerslave said:


> Wow that guy has huge balls or he is really stupid.


He's done this before and it sounds like this is just another one and he got caught again.


----------



## Jimi007

Sorry....the man needs an ass beating. Period !


----------



## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> People in affairs are divorced from reality. They have NO idea the seriousness of their crimes until they are shown.
> 
> The AP saying I hope I can make amends and still train you is a perfect example. Even you, as the victimized, don't fully realize it for awhile.
> 
> My wife's AP (not physical, just emotional affair) sent me a long email saying how ashamed he was and how he considered me one of his few friends. He also said how he wanted to stay Facebook friends with us, not to comment, but to just see our lives together so he could know we were okay. Also, my wife wanted to keep his long goodbye text from him, as a memento since she was ending the friendship.
> 
> I mean, total delusion, right?? Also, even I was WAY too nice in my response. Not fully nice, but far more self deprecating that I ever should have been - when I think back on it, I hate myself. About 2 years after the incident I deleted all old messages and emails. I did, thankfully with help from TAM, make her delete the goodbye message.
> 
> Bottom line is that all parties involved are not fully sane in the weeks following the trauma of infidelity. It's a complete f*** of your mind and soul. You rationalize things and think things that later will make you vomit.
> 
> Hopefully we are all beating this out of you, bit by bit, on this forum.


You really are 

It has been 2 months now and the last week is where my cognition and judgment has been more on key. It is getting back to normal due to the discussion here. I have zero ****s now. In fairness, other than not just lock her out, I have not been doing any pick me nonsense and it is driving her insane, I can see it now, see her true trigger is the realisation that I will not give her attention and she offers nothing at the moment. 

The post was triggered by me questioning my own boundaries due to a manipulator trying to gas light me. That rock has fallen now!

I am still moving between two camps here if honest. With no child or significant hard earned assets, this conversion would not be happening for sure.


----------



## SMFD01

Jimi007 said:


> Sorry....the man needs an ass beating. Period !


I know. 

During his monkey banging my ww he was a pt and received multiple guided joint intra articular injections from me. Think on that......


----------



## *Deidre*

SMFD01 said:


> You really are
> 
> It has been 2 months now and the last week is where my cognition and judgment has been more on key. It is getting back to normal due to the discussion here. I have zero ****s now. In fairness, other than not just lock her out, I have not been doing any pick me nonsense and it is driving her insane, I can see it now, see her true trigger is the realisation that I will not give her attention and she offers nothing at the moment.
> 
> The post was triggered by me questioning my own boundaries due to a manipulator trying to gas light me. That rock has fallen now!
> 
> I am still moving between two camps here if honest. With no child or significant hard earned assets, this conversion would not be happening for sure.


That’s progress. Glad to hear you’re not playing her games. I hope you choose to never accept behaviors from her again that make you feel “less than.” She needs to earn your trust and respect again. Probably something she doesn’t grasp because she thinks only her needs matter. Hope you continue to stay strong!


----------



## SMFD01

*Deidre* said:


> That’s progress. Glad to hear you’re not playing her games. I hope you choose to never accept behaviors from her again that make you feel “less than.” She needs to earn your trust and respect again. Probably something she doesn’t grasp because she thinks only her needs matter. Hope you continue to stay strong!


Thank you.

Another bang on point post. I see the traits clearly now. Even as another 24 hours have past. She is in victim mode which is laughable. I am just a chameleon watching at the moment.

I discussed this with parents and brother over the weekend and interestingly, apart form my mothers initial weakness of trying to protect what is gone and noting that we have such a good life that she herself is envious and hence her difficulty to accept it. They are all - Dude do what you need either way we are here for you.

We shall see, ww has a mountain to climb and not sure the back bone is present for it.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SMFD01 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Another bang on point post. I see the traits clearly now. Even as another 24 hours have past. She is in victim mode which is laughable. I am just a chameleon watching at the moment.
> 
> I discussed this with parents and brother over the weekend and interestingly, apart form my mothers initial weakness of trying to protect what is gone and noting that we have such a good life that she herself is envious and hence her difficulty to accept it. They are all - Dude do what you need either way we are here for you.
> 
> We shall see, ww has a mountain to climb and not sure the back bone is present for it.


Do you really want to keep her in your life though and save for your child, why?


----------



## SMFD01

She'sStillGotIt said:


> What an idiot response.
> 
> If the man's own WIFE refuses to respect him or treat him with love and care, what the hell does beating up her boyfriend do?
> 
> Her boyfriend isn't the OP's problem!!!! His POS cheating wife is his problem!
> 
> OP, I'm going to tell you what I tell other betrayed spouses who seem to have trouble respecting themselves.
> 
> Be done with this POS you married.
> 
> *Find your DIGNITY and be done.*


I believe it was due to the fact that the guys was a supposed good friend. Agreed, jail is not a joke and it is the WW that betrayed an emotional connection.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Another bang on point post. I see the traits clearly now. Even as another 24 hours have past. She is in victim mode which is laughable. I am just a chameleon watching at the moment.
> 
> I discussed this with parents and brother over the weekend and interestingly, apart form my mothers initial weakness of trying to protect what is gone and noting that we have such a good life that she herself is envious and hence her difficulty to accept it. They are all - Dude do what you need either way we are here for you.
> 
> We shall see, ww has a mountain to climb and not sure the back bone is present for it.


Parents, family and clergy for the most part are clueless to infidelity. Just stay together no matter what is BS advice.


----------



## Marc878

She'sStillGotIt said:


> What an idiot response.
> 
> If the man's own WIFE refuses to respect him or treat him with love and care, what the hell does beating up her boyfriend do?
> 
> Her boyfriend isn't the OP's problem!!!! His POS cheating wife is his problem!
> 
> OP, I'm going to tell you what I tell other betrayed spouses who seem to have trouble respecting themselves.
> 
> Be done with this POS you married.
> 
> *Find your DIGNITY and be done.*


A great way to end up in jail and on the wrong side of divorce. Lose custody of your kids, get kicked out of your home, etc.


----------



## Jimi007

She'sStillGotIt said:


> What an idiot response.
> 
> If the man's own WIFE refuses to respect him or treat him with love and care, what the hell does beating up her boyfriend do?
> 
> Her boyfriend isn't the OP's problem!!!! His POS cheating wife is his problem!
> 
> OP, I'm going to tell you what I tell other betrayed spouses who seem to have trouble respecting themselves.
> 
> Be done with this POS you married.
> 
> *Find your DIGNITY and be done.*


You can call it idiot if you want...just a difference of opinion. Where I come from street justice is relevant , especially if it's a TRUSTED FRIEND. Put that in your pipe and smoke it !


----------



## SMFD01

She'sStillGotIt said:


> What an idiot response.
> 
> If the man's own WIFE refuses to respect him or treat him with love and care, what the hell does beating up her boyfriend do?
> 
> Her boyfriend isn't the OP's problem!!!! His POS cheating wife is his problem!
> 
> OP, I'm going to tell you what I tell other betrayed spouses who seem to have trouble respecting themselves.
> 
> Be done with this POS you married.
> 
> *Find your DIGNITY and be done.*


It is the crux of the issue. I understand this. I am placing paperwork through at the moment. We had 10 years of excellence (that I know of) Yes she flushed it and any respect for me down the toilet in her actions. But it was the 10 years that runs through my mind along with the current begging and crying.

I appreciated that she was not crying whilst waiting at the hotdog stand.


----------



## ConanHub

She'sStillGotIt said:


> What an idiot response.
> 
> If the man's own WIFE refuses to respect him or treat him with love and care, what the hell does beating up her boyfriend do?
> 
> Her boyfriend isn't the OP's problem!!!! His POS cheating wife is his problem!
> 
> OP, I'm going to tell you what I tell other betrayed spouses who seem to have trouble respecting themselves.
> 
> Be done with this POS you married.
> 
> *Find your DIGNITY and be done.*


While I agree with most of your post, someone knowingly trespassing in this barbarian's territory is going to learn to regret the day his mother first let his father kiss her.


----------



## ConanHub

Marc878 said:


> A great way to end up in jail and on the wrong side of divorce. Lose custody of your kids, get kicked out of your home, etc.


Nuance and intelligence come into play here. You don't have to break any laws to put pressure on someone. I'm pretty sure the cockroach (OM) has no clue how to handle positive pressure.😈


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

ConanHub said:


> Nuance and intelligence come into play here. You don't have to break any laws to put pressure on someone. I'm pretty sure the cockroach (OM) has no clue how to handle positive pressure.😈


It's only illegal if you're caught.


----------



## drencrom

SMFD01 said:


> I said in a previous post, that you guys have me humbled with advice and help. It means a lot at such times.
> 
> I will certainly never trust a person again, other than my mother, father or brother. Being aware of bias of course.


Right there with you. It is why I'll never get married again, or even enter a committed relationship.

Without reading every single post coming in late, you mentioned something about paperwork. Are you filing for divorce? If so, seems like a good thing to do. She got caught boning a personal trainer...and she is still a gym rat. Obviously she is wanting to look good naked for someone else. And if that's not the case, if she wants to reconcile, maybe her gym days need to be over and just workout at home if you are truly reconciling.

I'm in the good position where I can get out of a relationship if I want to, if I'm ever in one. I know for me, if someone I committed to was screwing someone at her gym, let alone screwing anyone at all, she'd be history. And on the off chance we stayed together, like I said, her gym days would be over or she can exit stage left.


----------



## Jimi007

ConanHub said:


> Nuance and intelligence come into play here. You don't have to break any laws to put pressure on someone. I'm pretty sure the cockroach (OM) has no clue how to handle positive pressure.😈


Exactly...my point


----------



## SMFD01

drencrom said:


> Right there with you. It is why I'll never get married again, or even enter a committed relationship.
> 
> Without reading every single post coming in late, you mentioned something about paperwork. Are you filing for divorce? If so, seems like a good thing to do. She got caught boning a personal trainer...and she is still a gym rat. Obviously she is wanting to look good naked for someone else. And if that's not the case, if she wants to reconcile, maybe her gym days need to be over and just workout at home if you are truly reconciling.
> 
> I'm in the good position where I can get out of a relationship if I want to, if I'm ever in one. I know for me, if someone I committed to was screwing someone at her gym, let alone screwing anyone at all, she'd be history. And on the off chance we stayed together, like I said, her gym days would be over or she can exit stage left.


The thing Is here, she was banging a dude in a private studio in a very risky one on one environment (hindsight I know, truly). She is not a typical gregarious, flirty gym goer on a normal basis. I have observed and known her for 12 years. The picture that we may normally get in our mind, is not her. Which is what caught me so off guard. WW is a true model wife in all aspects normally.

I watch and observe. I made a significant error trusting two wretches together for sure. The reason was illness on my behalf, my guard was just not present.

She ceased any notion of training in a non women only or at home as soon as the second incident occurred. 
But I understand that above is based upon my perception of her, which may or not have any resemblance of the true person !

It still happened, I have to wonder what the benefit to me is. Even WW has stated she knows I would be great without her. She would be on her rear with little way through short to medium term. 

An absolute wreck, waste and destructive process with no upside. Utter morons to undertake this behaviour. I am aware of sunken cost fallacy here also affecting me.


----------



## Gabriel

SMFD01 said:


> She ceased any notion of training in a non women only or at home as soon as the second incident occurred.


Did I miss this? After this "hot" guy hit on her, she quit her current gym?


----------



## Gabriel

Look, only YOU can decide whether you want to continue with your wife, leave her, or continue with certain conditions/demands.

A sexual affair is VERY hard to get over. 

Some people can make amends, learn a lesson and never do it again, to which maybe you can recover. But most either repeat-offend, or the victim just can't ultimately move forward.

You shouldn't make a decision coerced by us. We just lay forth what we've either been through, or read about many times on here. Ultimately, it's YOUR call.


----------



## QuietRiot

SMFD01 said:


> The thing Is here, she was banging a dude in a private studio in a very risky one on one environment (hindsight I know, truly). She is not a typical gregarious, flirty gym goer on a normal basis. I have observed and known her for 12 years. The picture that we may normally get in our mind, is not her. Which is what caught me so off guard. WW is a true model wife in all aspects normally.
> 
> I watch and observe. I made a significant error trusting two wretches together for sure. The reason was illness on my behalf, my guard was just not present.
> 
> She ceased any notion of training in a non women only or at home as soon as the second incident occurred.
> But I understand that above is based upon my perception of her, which may or not have any resemblance of the true person !
> 
> It still happened, I have to wonder what the benefit to me is. Even WW has stated she knows I would be great without her. She would be on her rear with little way through short to medium term.
> 
> An absolute wreck, waste and destructive process with no upside. Utter morons to undertake this behaviour. I am aware of sunken cost fallacy here also affecting me.


The way she acts around you is obviously very different than away from you. That’s a fact. 

Don’t be fooled into feeling sorry for your poor, poor wife. She made her bed. She really should be ripping up her victim card and paying half as much attention to your thoughts and feelings as you do to all of hers. But if she could do that… you wouldn’t be on this forum in the first place. 

There was absolutely no upside for YOU, that is. She and her F buddy got plenty of upsides and secret sex, they enjoyed themselves. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t have done it over and over. There is a reason that the betrayed is the only person eating the sh*t sandwich in the end.


----------



## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> Did I miss this? After this "hot" guy hit on her, she quit her current gym?


Sorry, oh yes immediate.


----------



## SMFD01

QuietRiot said:


> The way she acts around you is obviously very different than away from you. That’s a fact.
> 
> Don’t be fooled into feeling sorry for your poor, poor wife. She made her bed. She really should be ripping up her victim card and paying half as much attention to your thoughts and feelings as you do to all of hers. But if she could do that… you wouldn’t be on this forum in the first place.
> 
> There was absolutely no upside for YOU, that is. She and her F buddy got plenty of upsides and secret sex, they enjoyed themselves. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t have done it over and over. There is a reason that the betrayed is the only person eating the sh*t sandwich in the end.


I am not in the slightest feeling sorry for her.

You are right on your point, if she undertook the work and started her own path instead of pathetic manipulation and self sorrow - I would not need to ask you guys for council.

Huge sandwich at that.


----------



## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> Look, only YOU can decide whether you want to continue with your wife, leave her, or continue with certain conditions/demands.
> 
> A sexual affair is VERY hard to get over.
> 
> Some people can make amends, learn a lesson and never do it again, to which maybe you can recover. But most either repeat-offend, or the victim just can't ultimately move forward.
> 
> You shouldn't make a decision coerced by us. We just lay forth what we've either been through, or read about many times on here. Ultimately, it's YOUR call.


I feel no coercion. Only experience and the hard way is the best teacher not the most pleasant, most here seem to hard learnt the hard way.

My mind is to proceed to divorce in terms of legality. She can try reconciliation and I will join the wagon when serious, if serious.

It is very hard to be honest, makes me want to throw up.


----------



## Gabriel

SMFD01 said:


> Sorry, oh yes immediate.


That's a positive.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> The thing Is here, she was banging a dude in a private studio in a very risky one on one environment (hindsight I know, truly). She is not a typical gregarious, flirty gym goer on a normal basis. I have observed and known her for 12 years. The picture that we may normally get in our mind, is not her. Which is what caught me so off guard. WW is a true model wife in all aspects normally.
> 
> I watch and observe. I made a significant error trusting two wretches together for sure. The reason was illness on my behalf, my guard was just not present.
> 
> She ceased any notion of training in a non women only or at home as soon as the second incident occurred.
> But I understand that above is based upon my perception of her, which may or not have any resemblance of the true person !
> 
> It still happened, I have to wonder what the benefit to me is. Even WW has stated she knows I would be great without her. She would be on her rear with little way through short to medium term.
> 
> An absolute wreck, waste and destructive process with no upside. Utter morons to undertake this behaviour. I am aware of sunken cost fallacy here also affecting me.


Bud you can never guard a cheater enough. They always find a way. You shouldn’t have to be a damn marriage warden. 
The other thing is this is a part of who she is or she wouldn’t have done this. There is no excuse and none of this is your fault.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> Sorry, oh yes immediate.


On her own without your reaction or prompting her?


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> are attempting to move forward toward reconciliation after her being caught red handed in a highly sexual affair with a Personal trainer during one on one studio sessions. *This was ongoing for 3 months and involved significant planing and disrespect. *Making it worse the scum bag guy was also a fake ' Good Buddy'.


You first post.
Would she have stopped on her own without being caught? Or would she still be planning and deceiving you.
Did you take any time at all to think about what reconciliation is, how long it takes and that it’s a life changing event that is permanent?
This affair didn’t just happen she planned it out but that’s not who she is? Sorry but that’s exactly who she is.
Like a lot you don’t want to see it.


----------



## Sfort

SMFD01 said:


> My mind is to proceed to divorce in terms of legality. She can try reconciliation and I will join the wagon when serious, if serious.


If you stay with her for the rest of your life, at some point, her desire for sex will diminish significantly, as it does for most women. At that point, the mind movies will start. "She was willing to destroy our marriage over her lust for a gym rat. She must not have been overly attracted to me then. Now she's not attracted to me to the point that she's not interested in sex with me. Therefore, the only thing I can conclude is that she's never really been physically attracted to me." 

Your life has changed forever. Every decision you make will have far-reaching consequences.


----------



## Marc878

This isn’t uncommon to try and minimize a spouses behavior. She was the poor little girl lost m the forest and 
was taken advantage of by a big bad man. She only had sex with him behind your back for 3 months because she was lost. 
You don’t need to make excuses to stay but you should realize what has actually happened.
You can’t fix her. She’s the only one that could do that. 
Going forward the capability is there to do it again.


----------



## Evinrude58

She was a model wife except. She was a good actor. If she loved you like a wife should, you wouldn’t be here. My thoughts are that once a woman is banging another dude, her romantic feelings for her previous guy are long gone and will never return. Now her love for the security and financial support and parenting you provide may still be there, but you’ll never get a kiss from her like she gave gym rat again.

Therefore I recommend kicking her off that pedestal you put her on in your mind, and then kick her out if your life.


----------



## Jimi007

Just curious , does she have the tools to change and understand her own behavior ?
Books , IC ect. ?


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> On her own without your reaction or prompting her?


For sure. The one thing that I noted as a minor normality in response :-D 

I understand your advice, truly. It is the same advice as I would give. Goes to show the skewed thoughts this stuff gives you.


----------



## SMFD01

Evinrude58 said:


> She was a model wife except. She was a good actor. If she loved you like a wife should, you wouldn’t be here. My thoughts are that once a woman is banging another dude, her romantic feelings for her previous guy are long gone and will never return. Now her love for the security and financial support and parenting you provide may still be there, but you’ll never get a kiss from her like she gave gym rat again.
> 
> Therefore I recommend kicking her off that pedestal you put her on in your mind, and then kick her out if your life.


Thanks for this reality check :-D


----------



## SMFD01

Jimi007 said:


> Just curious , does she have the tools to change and understand her own behavior ?
> Books , IC ect. ?


She is going to get personal help.

She has the books and has read etc. Just the fact that I bought them ........

I know. Real simping at it's finest.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

SMFD01 said:


> Thanks for this reality check :-D


As a further reality check, she may have been a relatively model wife
It's possible to act in a model fashion, but have internal conflicts that you're always having to keep in check because you're damaged.


----------



## QuietRiot

SMFD01 said:


> She is going to get personal help.
> 
> She has the books and has read etc. Just the fact that I bought them ........
> 
> I know. Real simping at it's finest.


You’re acting like a chump in true fashion. You have got to read *Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life*. Buy yourself a book instead. While you’re at it, buy *Cheating in a Nutshell *too.


----------



## Enigma32

SMFD01 said:


> She is going to get personal help.
> 
> She has the books and has read etc. Just the fact that I bought them ........
> 
> I know. Real simping at it's finest.


I hope things work out for you, truly.


----------



## SMFD01

QuietRiot said:


> You’re acting like a chump in true fashion. You have got to read *Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life*. Buy yourself a book instead. While you’re at it, buy *Cheating in a Nutshell *too.


I have read them. The books are useless. As I already know what needs to be done. I am just running through the significant financial and parenting issues in my mind at the moment. But I hear you.


----------



## SMFD01

Enigma32 said:


> I hope things work out for you, truly.


They 100% would, with through. I can not see reconciliation being viable. I may be astounded, but I never have before so.....


----------



## SMFD01

Gregory Chaucery said:


> As a further reality check, she may have been a relatively model wife
> It's possible to act in a model fashion, but have internal conflicts that you're always having to keep in check because you're damaged.


This is getting closer to the crux again I believe. She is kidding herself also. It is going to be a lesson for sure.


----------



## Enigma32

SMFD01 said:


> They 100% would, with through. I can not see reconciliation being viable. I may be astounded, but I never have before so.....


I tried reconciliation after a cheating ex once. She pretended she would do better but in reality she actually upped her cheating game. She got more sneaky about it and did it much more often. After it was over, I just felt like a colossal idiot. If I had to do it all again, I'd walk away immediately. That's what I suggest to everyone.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> I have read them. The books are useless. As I already know what needs to be done. I am just running through the significant financial and parenting issues in my mind at the moment. But I hear you.


You won’t be the first to have trouble making a decision. It’s truly a life altering position to be put in. Thats why a lot stay without thinking it through. R stands for rugsweep more than reconciliation from what I’ve seen.
The problem is having to live with this long term. Not to mention if it happens again. The capability is there. You can waste a lot of time and life you can’t get back. 
You should never trust anyone 100% but under these circumstances …….


----------



## SMFD01

Enigma32 said:


> I tried reconciliation after a cheating ex once. She pretended she would do better but in reality she actually upped her cheating game. She got more sneaky about it and did it much more often. After it was over, I just felt like a colossal idiot. If I had to do it all again, I'd walk away immediately. That's what I suggest to everyone.


The idea of being in that position is horrifying. I find it difficult in this situation as if I say something = I mean it and it is done. Getting the mind around it is out of the ball park.


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> You won’t be the first to have trouble making a decision. It’s truly a life altering position to be put in. Thats why a lot stay without thinking it through. R stands for rugsweep more than reconciliation from what I’ve seen.
> The problem is having to live with this long term. Not to mention if it happens again. The capability is there. You can waste a lot of time and life you can’t get back.
> You should never trust anyone 100% but under these circumstances …….


At 44 myself, I do not need to waste good years. I would have a pretty cool time alone, seriously.

The rug sweep comment is forefront here, I have read extensively and most are just that. I do not believe the emotional or intellectual capability exists in most people of this ilk, to grasp, let alone actually action a true reconciliation. 

I could do it. But I was falling into the trap of facilitating through me, which is not in any way ok.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> At 44 myself, I do not need to waste good years. I would have a pretty cool time alone, seriously.
> 
> The rug sweep comment is forefront here, I have read extensively and most are just that. I do not believe the emotional or intellectual capability exists in most people of this ilk, to grasp, let alone actually action a true reconciliation.
> 
> I could do it. But I was falling into the trap of facilitating through me, which is not in any way ok.


The betrayer does not see it the same as the betrayed. It meant nothing to betray you or they wouldn’t have done it in the first place. They can’t feel what you’re feeling.
Now that is probably different with someone who has full remorse. Which from what I’ve seen is rare. How do you know? Bending over backwards to try and make you feel safe. Not lying, hiding or denying. Working on their boundaries. Going out of their way to stay in a safe place or mode.
However, you really can’t tell for sure.
A lot fall for the ‘I’m sorry I got caught’ because they want to see it. Many think that if they confront it’ll end when it’s not uncommon to go deeper underground. Or it’s fine for a year maybe two or five and they end up going through it again.
Many are looking for any straw to not make a decision. Real common.
You’ll hear do this do that when you should be looking at actions to determine Isfahan it’s worth the risk. Even with everything lined up there are no guarantees.
You must do everything to save the marriage? Why? If the marriage was so damn important why did the betrayer piss all over it?
If someone intentionally harms you there’s a good chance they’ll do it again. Is the risk with it?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Marc878 said:


> The betrayer does not see it the same as the betrayed. It meant nothing to betray you or they wouldn’t have done it in the first place. They can’t feel what you’re feeling.
> Now that is probably different with someone who has full remorse. Which from what I’ve seen is rare. How do you know? Bending over backwards to try and make you feel safe. Not lying, hiding or denying. Working on their boundaries. Going out of their way to stay in a safe place or mode.
> However, you really can’t tell for sure.
> A lot fall for the ‘I’m sorry I got caught’ because they want to see it. Many think that if they confront it’ll end when it’s not uncommon to go deeper underground. Or it’s fine for a year maybe two or five and the end up going through it again.
> Many are looking for any straw to not make a decision. Real common.
> You’ll hear do this do that when you should be looking at actions to determine Isfahan it’s worth the risk. Even with everything lined up there are no guarantees.
> You must do everything to save the marriage? Why? If the marriage was so damn important why did the betrayer piss all over it?
> If someone intentionally harms you there’s a good chance they’ll do it again. Is the risk with it?


Don't forget the suicide threats. As soon as I see that I know they're dealing with something highly manipulative and they're wasting their time. One who resorts to that isn't capable of doing the work involved in true reconciliation.


----------



## Marc878

lifeistooshort said:


> Don't forget the suicide threats. As soon as I see that I know they're dealing with something highly manipulative and they're wasting their time. One who resorts to that isn't capable of doing the work involved in true reconciliation.


Very true. IMO you turn them over to the proper health officials and get it on record immediately.
They shouldn’t be around young kids in that state. Plus you’ll see very quickly it was manipulation.


----------



## SMFD01

lifeistooshort said:


> Don't forget the suicide threats. As soon as I see that I know they're dealing with something highly manipulative and they're wasting their time. One who resorts to that isn't capable of doing the work involved in true reconciliation.


I managed to talk about her multiple breakdowns and got a confession without her realising it last night. WW claimed when she she was wailing sorry and telling me the pain was so bad whilst trying to stab herself with scissors in the gut to make it stop as her inner voice was screaming she deserves to die for the hurt she has caused etc - That she knocked the phone out of my hand as I was calling 999 and she panicked........Kinda sums that one up.

She does everything on paper. (exception the suicide manipulation)

The second Gym issue, I allowed the gym visit as it is a family gym and not in anyway the same thing as where and what occurred. After advice here, she should not have asked I agree. After advice here WW should not have even looked at another dude.

After the advice and perspectives here, I went to the gym with her the weekend and noted behaviours. What a ****ing surprise TAM was correct it is a meat market of sexual undertone for 50% of people.

Wife was eye ****ed by a dozen guys of an hour.

The suicide issue is tricky though, her words are always regarding not living with damage to me. I can't help think it is due to falling from a pedestal and not being able to hide any more in plain sight. 

She is depressed and all over the place 24/7 

This passes into dreams and nightmares of spirals and suicides multiple times per night. 

But then she has a huge amount to lose.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SMFD01 said:


> But then she has a huge amount to lose.


"But then she has thrown away her family and a good man who now sees her for what she is and can't stand to see her manipulation tactics failing."

There, I fixed it for you.


----------



## SMFD01

Dictum Veritas said:


> "But then she has thrown away her family and a good man who now sees her for what she is and can't stand to see her manipulation tactics failing."
> 
> There, I fixed it for you.


Every time. Thanks Dictum Veritas 😂


----------



## Sfort

Marc878 said:


> The betrayer does not see it the same as the betrayed. It meant nothing to betray you or they wouldn’t have done it in the first place. They can’t feel what you’re feeling.


Sticky material there.

What betrayed spouses don't seem to understand is that if their spouse will break his or her most sacred vows to forsake all others, breaking a subsequent vow to forsake all others "for real this time" is much easier.

If she commits suicide, that's on her. OP didn't cause any of these problems, so far as we know from what he has written here.


----------



## SMFD01

Sfort said:


> Sticky material there.
> 
> What betrayed spouses don't seem to understand is that if their spouse will break his or her most sacred vows to forsake all others, breaking a subsequent vow to forsake all others "for real this time" is much easier.
> 
> If she commits suicide, that's on her. OP didn't cause any of these problems, so far as we know from what he has written here.


It is a sobering sentence by Marc878.

She wrote a few words down over the weekend. She claims I tortured her mentally and tore her apart. Because I told her we were finished unless she found a miraculous ability to reconcile . . . . . "That kind of abuse" Calmly, those exact words.


----------



## Gregory Chaucery

SMFD01 said:


> It is a sobering sentence by Marc878.
> 
> She wrote a few words down over the weekend. She claims I tortured her mentally and tore her apart. Because I told her we were finished unless she found a miraculous ability to reconcile . . . . . "That kind of abuse" Calmly, those exact words.


She's dumping it all on you.
That suggests that she isn't at a point of developing insight for herself.


----------



## Evinrude58

SMFD01 said:


> It is a sobering sentence by Marc878.
> 
> She wrote a few words down over the weekend. She claims I tortured her mentally and tore her apart. Because I told her we were finished unless she found a miraculous ability to reconcile . . . . . "That kind of abuse" Calmly, those exact words.


I guess ducking a gym rat for months abd expecting you to swallow that **** Sam much and stay with her…… then basically feigning suicide to force you to stay……
That’s not abuse, right?
Yeah, your wife’s perspective is only that of an extremely entitled cheater that’s pulling out all the stops to keep her comfortable life, with zero regard for the pain she’s caused and still causing you. 
This leopard just can’t keep her spots from bleeding through the spray paint.


----------



## lifeistooshort

SMFD01 said:


> I managed to talk about her multiple breakdowns and got a confession without her realising it last night. WW claimed when she she was wailing sorry and telling me the pain was so bad whilst trying to stab herself with scissors in the gut to make it stop as her inner voice was screaming she deserves to die for the hurt she has caused etc - That she knocked the phone out of my hand as I was calling 999 and she panicked........Kinda sums that one up.
> 
> She does everything on paper. (exception the suicide manipulation)
> 
> The second Gym issue, I allowed the gym visit as it is a family gym and not in anyway the same thing as where and what occurred. After advice here, she should not have asked I agree. After advice here WW should not have even looked at another dude.
> 
> After the advice and perspectives here, I went to the gym with her the weekend and noted behaviours. What a ****ing surprise TAM was correct it is a meat market of sexual undertone for 50% of people.
> 
> Wife was eye ****ed by a dozen guys of an hour.
> 
> The suicide issue is tricky though, her words are always regarding not living with damage to me. I can't help think it is due to falling from a pedestal and not being able to hide any more in plain sight.
> 
> She is depressed and all over the place 24/7
> 
> This passes into dreams and nightmares of spirals and suicides multiple times per night.
> 
> But then she has a huge amount to lose.


It's not tricky at all. The big show right in front of you is designed to bring focus to her as the victim. Its a control tactic.

Next time tell her you need the bathroom and leave the room, then get your cell out and call 911. See if the suicide threats continue.

This is one phony manipulative you know what and is not a good prospect for reconciliation. But we all get that this is your life so the decision is yours....just know what you're getting.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

SMFD01 said:


> The suicide issue is tricky though, her words are always regarding not living with damage to me. I can't help think it is due to falling from a pedestal and not being able to hide any more in plain sight.
> 
> She is depressed and all over the place 24/7
> 
> This passes into dreams and nightmares of spirals and suicides multiple times per night.
> 
> But then she has a huge amount to lose.


Honestly I doubt she is truly upset about the hurt she caused you. She is only upset that her world is falling apart. If she really is concerned about the hurt she cause you, just tell her it was a blessing. She showed who she really is and gave you your freedom from someone whose true character you really never knew until now. She opened your eyes to what was always there, but she kept hidden.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> It is a sobering sentence by Marc878.
> 
> She wrote a few words down over the weekend. She claims I tortured her mentally and tore her apart. Because I told her we were finished unless she found a miraculous ability to reconcile . . . . . "That kind of abuse" Calmly, those exact words.





SMFD01 said:


> It is a sobering sentence by Marc878.
> 
> She wrote a few words down over the weekend. She claims I tortured her mentally and tore her apart. Because I told her we were finished unless she found a miraculous ability to reconcile . . . . . "That kind of abuse" Calmly, those exact words.


She cheated. So what! You just need to get over it. You have no right to end the marriage. Muffin deserves a do over. At your expense of course because she’s so worth it. She only screwed her new boyfriend for 3 months. (If you can believe what she says).


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SMFD01 said:


> It is a sobering sentence by Marc878.
> 
> She wrote a few words down over the weekend. She claims I tortured her mentally and tore her apart. Because I told her we were finished unless she found a miraculous ability to reconcile . . . . . "That kind of abuse" Calmly, those exact words.


So, how soon can your lawyer have her served with divorce papers? That's really all you need to worry about, because you have nothing to work with in her.


----------



## Marc878

Bud if you start reflecting back and take a good look. You might see what you ignored or didn’t pay attention to before. I doubt this behavior developed overnight.


----------



## Marc878

SMFD01 said:


> I managed to talk about her multiple breakdowns and got a confession without her realising it last night. WW claimed when she she was wailing sorry and telling me the pain was so bad whilst trying to stab herself with scissors in the gut to make it stop as her inner voice was screaming she deserves to die for the hurt she has caused etc - That she knocked the phone out of my hand as I was calling 999 and she panicked........Kinda sums that one up.
> 
> She does everything on paper. (exception the suicide manipulation)
> 
> The second Gym issue, I allowed the gym visit as it is a family gym and not in anyway the same thing as where and what occurred. After advice here, she should not have asked I agree. After advice here WW should not have even looked at another dude.
> 
> After the advice and perspectives here, I went to the gym with her the weekend and noted behaviours. What a ****ing surprise TAM was correct it is a meat market of sexual undertone for 50% of people.
> 
> Wife was eye ****ed by a dozen guys of an hour.
> 
> The suicide issue is tricky though, her words are always regarding not living with damage to me. I can't help think it is due to falling from a pedestal and not being able to hide any more in plain sight.
> 
> She is depressed and all over the place 24/7
> 
> This passes into dreams and nightmares of spirals and suicides multiple times per night.
> 
> But then she has a huge amount to lose.


You missed a great opportunity by not calling 911. Actions count words don’t.
She hid her affair from you in plain sight. Pretty good actress. Start connecting those dots.


----------



## SMFD01

Marc878 said:


> You missed a great opportunity by not calling 911. Actions count words don’t.
> She hid her affair from you in plain sight. Pretty good actress. Start connecting those dots.


I am

started a very brief discussion at lunch and other than telling me about how she feels also started ""flipping out"" as I "know what I am doing" in terms of simply asking her what plans or actions she intends towards reconciliation (we have a world at our fingers here right?)/

She span it after answering basically nothing other than you have full access to phones and I deleted every app 😂  

Asking me if I knew of any further steps I answered "Yes of course I do, and would have already started on those actions with immediate effect"

Usual cheater nonsense. I thought more of her.

I am now a sniper in the waiting.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SMFD01 said:


> I am now a sniper in the waiting.


Just don't keep yourself in limbo too long. It's emotionally abrasive to yourself and can wear a man out quickly.


----------



## SMFD01

Dictum Veritas said:


> Just don't keep yourself in limbo too long. It's emotionally abrasive to yourself and can wear a man out quickly.


I get that. She needs to be gone ASAP as if never here. Shame. Really ****s me off.


----------



## Jimi007

I hope these suicide events aren't happening around your child ?
It's cruel and damaging


----------



## SMFD01

Jimi007 said:


> I hope these suicide events aren't happening around your child ?
> It's cruel and damaging


Once in same house out of sight.
I agree absolutely and she has been warned that if my Child witnesses it, then I will remove out of the house immediately. No messing.


----------



## Marc878

Dictum Veritas said:


> Just don't keep yourself in limbo too long. It's emotionally abrasive to yourself and can wear a man out quickly.


Limbo is a self imposed state.


----------



## Marc878

Sorry but what you’re seeing is talk or words don’t mean much.


----------



## Enigma32

SMFD01 said:


> After the advice and perspectives here, I went to the gym with her the weekend and noted behaviours. What a ****ing surprise TAM was correct it is a meat market of sexual undertone for 50% of people.
> 
> Wife was eye ****ed by a dozen guys of an hour.


When she goes to a new gym, she might even be looking for a meat market style gym. I used to have this one guy as my old gym buddy and that's what he did. He went from gym to gym looking for a place that had enough attractive women to talk to.



> The suicide issue is tricky though, her words are always regarding not living with damage to me. I can't help think it is due to falling from a pedestal and not being able to hide any more in plain sight.
> 
> She is depressed and all over the place 24/7
> 
> This passes into dreams and nightmares of spirals and suicides multiple times per night.
> 
> But then she has a huge amount to lose.


The suicide thing is most likely just BS but if you treat it as such you will be the bad guy. I'm at the stage in my life now where if someone wronged me and tried to play the victim, I'd not stop them from doing anything. I'd call the bluff.


----------



## SMFD01

Enigma32 said:


> When she goes to a new gym, she might even be looking for a meat market style gym. I used to have this one guy as my old gym buddy and that's what he did. He went from gym to gym looking for a place that had enough attractive women to talk to.
> 
> 
> 
> The suicide thing is most likely just BS but if you treat it as such you will be the bad guy. I'm at the stage in my life now where if someone wronged me and tried to play the victim, I'd not stop them from doing anything. I'd call the bluff.


This is where it ended up with me calling it/ignoring.

She had what I would describe as a weird bipolar/manic kinda breakdown yesterday, this actually really scarred the **** out of me as I did not recognise her.

On the way home, I had had enough and was going to divorce and tell her point blank.

Before I had opportunity - She dropped to her knees and apologised not only for doing what she did, but for the manipulation and self pity/sorrow. This was a 2 hour apology with her accepting the outcome whatever that would be and begging to allow her to rectify, even it still means definite divorce.

She owned the entirety and claims she was breaking inside as she attempted to firefight the acceptance that this was her choice and that she ended our relationship the moment she decided on her pathway. 

Discussed a self destruct and blamed that on childhood......Cliche

But I am mind bashed now. I am still filing and she is at peace with that. But asks me to keep an open mind and has explained anything that is required she has begun, anything I require she will do.

I am tired and will think on this for a day or so as a result.


----------



## lifeistooshort

If she stops the victimization control tactics and manipulation and lets you do what you need to do then you might have something to work with.

File, have her served, and see how she behaves through the process. Divorce filings can always be withdrawn but her behavior will tell you if it's worth considering. I still think she's not good partner material because of the need for attention but first see how she behaves during divorce proceedings.

And if you do decide to reconcile there will have been real consequences for her and thar matters. You don't want to set a precedent where she cries, manipulates, and threatens suicide and you cave. Very bad for any kind of future with her.


----------



## Gabriel

SMFD01 said:


> This is where it ended up with me calling it/ignoring.
> 
> She had what I would describe as a weird bipolar/manic kinda breakdown yesterday, this actually really scarred the **** out of me as I did not recognise her.
> 
> On the way home, I had had enough and was going to divorce and tell her point blank.
> 
> Before I had opportunity - She dropped to her knees and apologised not only for doing what she did, but for the manipulation and self pity/sorrow. This was a 2 hour apology with her accepting the outcome whatever that would be and begging to allow her to rectify, even it still means definite divorce.
> 
> She owned the entirety and claims she was breaking inside as she attempted to firefight the acceptance that this was her choice and that she ended our relationship the moment she decided on her pathway.
> 
> Discussed a self destruct and blamed that on childhood......Cliche
> 
> But I am mind bashed now. I am still filing and she is at peace with that. But asks me to keep an open mind and has explained anything that is required she has begun, anything I require she will do.
> 
> I am tired and will think on this for a day or so as a result.


I think she's fully realizing the seriousness of her crimes against you.

And she's not handling well. But at least she gets it, and seems to be ready to accept the consequences, whatever they may be.

As already mentioned you can move forward with the D process and always stop it if you feel this is salvageable.


----------



## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> I think she's fully realizing the seriousness of her crimes against you.
> 
> And she's not handling well. But at least she gets it, and seems to be ready to accept the consequences, whatever they may be.
> 
> As already mentioned you can move forward with the D process and always stop it if you feel this is salvageable.


If she continues to demonstrate openness and acceptance of the wrong, maybe a light. But yes a consequence is needed.

it is like a different person, wife is back in the house. so creepy.


----------



## lifeistooshort

SMFD01 said:


> If she continues to demonstrate openness and acceptance of the wrong, maybe a light. But yes a consequence is needed.
> 
> it is like a different person, wife is back in the house. so creepy.


Your challenge is discerning what is true remorse from damage control and its not as easy as you might think.

The response to consequences is how you figure our which one you have.


----------



## SMFD01

lifeistooshort said:


> Your challenge is discerning what is true remorse from damage control and its not as easy as you might think.
> 
> The response to consequences is how you figure our which one you have.


Ok thank you for this advice. I am going to request financial settlement. She says that she would Never take a penny or have interest in property etc. We shall soon see.

Looking over this, it is possible she picked up on the severity and took her crap underground to hide it.


----------



## Scrooge

@SMFD01

My ex didn’t cheat, well, not that I’m aware of anyway. She has had similar behaviour however but unlike your ‘wife’, she still has not realised what she’s done, nor she ever will.

I am in no position to give advice, I do feel for you and have been in a position similar to where you are today however, the exhaustion from the confusion and trying to distinguish between complete opposite personalities and wondering who's the real her and who isn't and trying to make sense of senseless things. It’s nasty and you shouldn’t have to deal with it, but there you are.

Whether you divorce or try to work things out, you are not choosing, you are just reacting to what she chose to do, this is my personal opinion. She violated your trust and respect, and flushed everything down the toilet, you are only reacting to what she has done, and you have every right to react in whichever way you see fit.

I don’t personally think she’s remorseful, or accepting the blame. You haven’t fallen for all the drama so far, so she’s just trying a new strategy that’s all. Give it a few days and see how long that will last, if she’s anything like my ex? If you don’t ‘cancel’ the divorce idea, all the remorse will be gone and she’ll be back to her old ways.

I was extremely lucky not to have children, you on the other hand have a lot to consider and process. Best of luck getting your sh!t together, won’t be easy, but make sure you remind yourself, and her when required, of who’s responsible for the whole mess.

The only advice I would give is to make sure you concentrate at your work and while driving when you’re feeling like this, your child, and job/income will probably be the ONLY constants in a life full of variables after all this, you don’t want to lose either due to exhaustion.

You're doing well considering the sh!tty circumstances you've been left to deal with.


----------



## lifeistooshort

SMFD01 said:


> Ok thank you for this advice. I am going to request financial settlement. She says that she would Never take a penny or have interest in property etc. We shall soon see.
> 
> Looking over this, it is possible she picked up on the severity and took her crap underground to hide it.


Possibly, it happens a lot. You need these answers so you can make a fully informed decision.

My ex just had his ex gf call him at work so I wouldn’t see her # on our phone records.


----------



## SMFD01

Scrooge said:


> @SMFD01
> 
> My ex didn’t cheat, well, not that I’m aware of anyway. She has had similar behaviour however but unlike your ‘wife’, she still has not realised what she’s done, nor she ever will.
> 
> I am in no position to give advice, I do feel for you and have been in a position similar to where you are today however, the exhaustion from the confusion and trying to distinguish between complete opposite personalities and wondering who's the real her and who isn't and trying to make sense of senseless things. It’s nasty and you shouldn’t have to deal with it, but there you are.
> 
> Whether you divorce or try to work things out, you are not choosing, you are just reacting to what she chose to do, this is my personal opinion. She violated your trust and respect, and flushed everything down the toilet, you are only reacting to what she has done, and you have every right to react in whichever way you see fit.
> 
> I don’t personally think she’s remorseful, or accepting the blame. You haven’t fallen for all the drama so far, so she’s just trying a new strategy that’s all. Give it a few days and see how long that will last, if she’s anything like my ex? If you don’t ‘cancel’ the divorce idea, all the remorse will be gone and she’ll be back to her old ways.
> 
> I was extremely lucky not to have children, you on the other hand have a lot to consider and process. Best of luck getting your sh!t together, won’t be easy, but make sure you remind yourself, and her when required, of who’s responsible for the whole mess.
> 
> The only advice I would give is to make sure you concentrate at your work and while driving when you’re feeling like this, your child, and job/income will probably be the ONLY constants in a life full of variables after all this, you don’t want to lose either due to exhaustion.
> 
> You're doing well considering the sh!tty circumstances you've been left to deal with.


Such a compassionate post. I am completely whacked and could be affecting judgment badly. I will be asleep for sure by 7pm as an example, with my little one.

It was a really great point regards to reaction. That makes my mind easier already. It is not a decision that I am making in many ways.

Good luck in your own endeavours.


----------



## SMFD01

lifeistooshort said:


> Possibly, it happens a lot. You need these answers so you can make a fully informed decision.
> 
> My ex just had his ex gf call him at work so I wouldn’t see her # on our phone records.


They are like criminals with the ingenuity's of methods. I have a tracker and VAR as standard in my my vehicles at present.


----------



## Scrooge

SMFD01 said:


> Such a compassionate post. I am completely whacked and could be affecting judgment badly. I will be asleep for sure by 7pm as an example, with my little one.
> 
> It was a really great point regards to reaction. That makes my mind easier already. It is not a decision that I am making in many ways.
> 
> Good luck in your own endeavours.


Been there myself not so long ago that's all, it's so darn exhausting to be dealing with all the hot and cold, on top of everything else you have to deal with everyday. You are doing exceptionally well keeping it together.

I’m sure you have your flaws, but you chose her, to have a family and a child with her, to treat her better than she treated you, these were your choices.

Growing up in a broken home, I truly hope your child is too young to realise what’s happening, and hope he/she will grow to be a better person because of it.

Sleeping is probably the best thing to do after an eventful day, I’m sure you’ll be exhausted enough.

You didn’t ask for any of the rubbish you’re having to deal with, but I’m sure you can handle it.


----------



## QuietRiot

SMFD01 said:


> They are like criminals with the ingenuity's of methods. I have a tracker and VAR as standard in my my vehicles at present.


They always make the right noises at some point when they want to save their own ass. 

Once you become the marriage police and begin stalking a person who you already KNOW to be a cheater, YOU are encouraging a completely dysfunctional and unhealthy situation. At this point she isn’t your worst enemy, you are.


----------



## TinyTbone

Bud look. There are many, many people here who have already had their lives ripped apart by infidelity. They are all trying to help you...YES YOU! Take off the blinders of love and listen to these people.
1. She made this choice... period. No matter what he had in her life that had meaning, no matter what she destroyed. She made this choice willingly!
2. It's not your fault! Period! We can all second guess till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, you were living the dream and living life, then this happened, by her choice not yours.
2. Quit making excuses for her. She messed up your lives, not you. We can all psychoanalyze this retroactively and see where each of us may have contributed to the end result. At the end the conclusion is the same. She chose, willingly to lay in another's man's bed and share her body with him and defile the sanctity of your marriage bed. You ows nothing to anyone for this.
4. As hard as it seems, and is, only you can decide to R or D. No one else but you can decide your path in life.
5. You must allow yourself to heal as a person and regain your individual humanity and faith in yourself.
We are all very capable of mental masturbation, eventually we mind fck ourselves doing this and make bad choices. She made hers. Carefully examine yourself now and stop the mental masturbation.before.you do the same to yourself. Have courage, strength and wisdom at this time.


----------



## SMFD01

Nothing new to report, other than absolute change in the women in front of me.

I am still divorcing in terms of paperwork, we shall see what happens after that point.

This board has kept my mind straight and hope that I can continue to post with progress. 

TinyTbone - you are right, just need to let this **** go.


----------



## Works

This board is full of amazing and extremely helpful people.


----------



## David60525

SMFD01 said:


> My wife and I (dependent child 5 y/o)
> 
> are attempting to move forward toward reconciliation after her being caught red handed in a highly sexual affair with a Personal trainer during one on one studio sessions. This was ongoing for 3 months and involved significant planing and disrespect. Making it worse the scum bag guy was also a fake ' Good Buddy'.
> 
> I think I will need to post in coping with infidelity shortly also.
> 
> When caught out, she was immediately sorry, cut all contact and the usual begged to stay routine. Became suicidal and over ridden with grief and upset. Although this was after caught.....
> 
> She blames herself and claims an otherwise stellar marriage with great relationship, sex and needs being met. But has identified feeling inferior to myself (no reason from my part) and a need for attention and lust for something new in the affair fog, although it was only ever supposed to be physical she developed feelings, claiming it was not love but still sufficient to escalate to full penetration no protection because it was fun and hot.
> 
> That is a brief part of back story.
> 
> Move forward a few months and her mental health is not ideal, but a lot better, as long as I am careful not to push with discussions on what happened, although all information is disclosed as I request and is honest from what can be ascertained (potential manipulation??).
> 
> *Moving to last night*
> 
> Wife comes back from Gym - a different gym that is busy and standard. no connection with affair partner etc.
> 
> And notes that the "hot guy at gym that looks like Thor" spoke to her.
> 
> Apparently:
> 
> *W/W: Standing between squat sets*
> _Gym Rat: Walks over to Weight Rack behind_
> *W/W: Sorry am I in your way whilst removing headphones (as he was looking for some weights...)*
> _Gym Rat: Looking for 20's_
> *W/W: Oh I have them - But no way p off are you messing with me?*
> _Gym Rat: No why (smirk)_
> *W/W: As you can lift much heavier than that*
> _Gym Rat: No srs I need the 20's but you can lift 25 easily on squat!_
> *W/W: Oh ok - takes 25 from him and passes 20 kg to him*
> _Gym Rat: After his set in busy gym - comes over and fist bumps W/W see you can do it boom!_
> *W/W: ha ha yea thanks*
> _Gym Rat: Yea what you squat in squat rack?_
> *W/W: 30 - 50 as back is weak link.*
> _Gym Rat: You can do more than that and starts talking belts and shooting small talk_
> *W/W: Oh ok se you (places headphones back in)*
> 
> Now the above outside of reconciliation is enough to warrant a sharp talk between us regards boundaries. She knows too well about the birds and bees.
> 
> Being in England - in large commercial Gyms, we do not small talk and in fact eye contact is weird or not really a done thing. Girls are never really being talked to, certainly by strangers. (I work out hard 6 days per week).
> 
> The guy was hitting on her and I am not particular concerned either way on that under typical circumstances, as we can only manage our own actions and not others.
> 
> My wife returns home and explains the above to me. Now I am struggling and really triggered and angry.
> 
> The main reason I think, is that the location - Gym and connection of this activity to her cheating ways.
> 
> But also wife thinks she had been 'good' and set up strong boundaries.
> 
> If I was standing in the same position and when the other girls in the gym are standing in that position etc - they simply ignore those around and conversation does not happen, if it does occur it would transpire as "I will have finished the 20's finished in 5 dude" the end.
> 
> From my point, I am thinking:
> 
> So the guy you found hot and looks like Thor (he does not in any way) happened to speak and chat up, trying to escalate with you in a gym. A married women in supposed reconciliation, whilst not hitting on the myriad of other largely single women in the place. What a coincidence ehhh? You shut him down by being polite and allowing escalation and a bit of pick up skills practice in terms of touch escalation with fist bumping.
> 
> Ok sounds completely legitimate.
> 
> Any thoughts on this to help?


She can and you can say to each other how cute people are. No sweat. Gym is a weakness, keep her on a tight leash, commend her for telling you. Shout I need to get fit, seeing a guy like Thor is going to get me jealous and eork out harder.
Give her a pass, keep working on the relationship. Tell her the first hint of relapse you will kick her to the curb.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

David60525 said:


> She can and you can say to each other how cute people are. No sweat. Gym is a weakness, keep her on a tight leash, commend her for telling you. Shout I need to get fit, seeing a guy like Thor is going to get me jealous and eork out harder.
> Give her a pass, keep working on the relationship. Tell her the first hint of relapse you will kick her to the curb.


----------



## SMFD01

David60525 said:


> She can and you can say to each other how cute people are. No sweat. Gym is a weakness, keep her on a tight leash, commend her for telling you. Shout I need to get fit, seeing a guy like Thor is going to get me jealous and eork out harder.
> Give her a pass, keep working on the relationship. Tell her the first hint of relapse you will kick her to the curb.


I understand your sentiment.

I am fit and although not super shredded, I am shredded :-D The dude looked nothing like Thor other than messy hair and juiced up. I can not compete as enjoy testicular function and also, sleep/rest is not adequate despite immaculate training and good diet. I guess that is also something that pisses me of. Any one of us could stop providing and turn into a chump with plenty of rest. low income but super shredded body and attitude to mess.


----------



## Bulfrog1987

Gregory Chaucery said:


> We just don't want you to rugsweep it, even if you choose to stay with her.
> She must deal with that point of vulnerability.
> If you rugsweep, it will always be an issue in your mind.


 Dude, truth. This was my husband. On all things, rug sweep. 😔 don’t do it.


----------



## ArthurGPym

SMFD01 said:


> Nothing new to report, other than absolute change in the women in front of me.
> 
> I am still divorcing in terms of paperwork, we shall see what happens after that point.
> 
> This board has kept my mind straight and hope that I can continue to post with progress.
> 
> TinyTbone - you are right, just need to let this **** go.


You are British. A British male. In other words you are screwed. She is going to do everything she can to slay you in court. British courts don't give a damn about husbands/fathers. I have read stories here on TAM about British men going through divorce and how they literally lose everything... it curdles the blood.

Please please please make sure you hire the best solicitor you can afford. I do not envy you my friend. You a are about to enter hell.


----------



## SMFD01

ArthurGPym said:


> You are British. A British male. In other words you are screwed. She is going to do everything she can to slay you in court. British courts don't give a damn about husbands/fathers. I have read stories here on TAM about British men going through divorce and how they literally lose everything... it curdles the blood.
> 
> Please please please make sure you hire the best solicitor you can afford. I do not envy you my friend. You a are about to enter hell.


You are correct of course.

I started preparing 3 months ago financially prior to petition, this will continue.

The cost and damage is eye watering.

Stage 1 has been filed, my wife has agreed to financial settlement with her foregoing claim. The issue is family court - they will still insist upon a slaughtering of me financially. 
I have not told her that and she is currently insistent on taking noting and returning whatever is apportioned. I have heard that one before though 🤥

A court telling me what to do with my own cash and property, does not sit well with me. 

At the moment I have decided on reconciliation. Due to a monumental level of shift in attitude and outlook from WW. She has been around to my parents and explained, apologised to them etc. And taken every active step possible to at least make the best out of her disgraceful situation.

We shall see. I have now read to many posts here and received far to many good pieces of advice in this thread to be anything other than devious in my actions to better my own personal outcome.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

SMFD01 said:


> You are correct of course.
> 
> I started preparing 3 months ago financially prior to petition, this will continue.
> 
> The cost and damage is eye watering.
> 
> Stage 1 has been filed, my wife has agreed to financial settlement with her foregoing claim. The issue is family court - they will still insist upon a slaughtering of me financially.
> I have not told her that and she is currently insistent on taking noting and returning whatever is apportioned. I have heard that one before though 🤥
> 
> A court telling me what to do with my own cash and property, does not sit well with me.
> 
> At the moment I have decided on reconciliation. Due to a monumental level of shift in attitude and outlook from WW. She has been around to my parents and explained, apologised to them etc. And taken every active step possible to at least make the best out of her disgraceful situation.
> 
> We shall see. I have now read to many posts here and received far to many good pieces of advice in this thread to be anything other than devious in my actions to better my own personal outcome.


I wish you the best of luck, seriously. Even though I feel like zero tolerance is the way to go for infidelity, there is always a part of my heart that wants to see a couple find a way to stay together, happily. That last part is important. You have to be able to get to a point where you are happy and content in your marriage. I hope you can find a way back to that point and I'm glad you are seeing what you need to in your wife to allow you to head down that path.


----------



## Gabriel

@SMFD01 how are things going?


----------



## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> @SMFD01 how are things going?


Early days still as these things are.

Moving forward with a wife who is self correcting her own attitude and appears genuinely sickened by her own actions.

A few points have come out, in terms of perhaps why it went the way it did and what the driving factors were in her cheating, deceitful actions. Why it was not stopped before it started and why it did not stop after her validation was achieved.

Same old pile of stink in reality - self entitled and seeking validation. I have ensured that the focus stays on actions and sins committed without accepting any excuses etc Through IC she is looking at driving characteristics and traits that led down this path. But as I have repeated quite bluntly, an adult knows when they are being naughty.

A lack of justice or true punishment still prevails in my mind. As it always will unless I just get rid of her. This still remains an option and is not something that concerns me overly. WW is petrified and anxious on this point, which is not a bad thing at this stage I feel. Shame she thought it was ok to beg forgiveness after, rather than ask permission.

In general, all bench marks for heavy lifting, showing remorse and working on character are being met. But personally I do not think it is that difficult to achieve for a WW if they wish to achieve, particularly short term. My mindset is that contrition can only be demonstrated when death does us apart and the she has kept her knickers on and emotional connection only to myself for the rest of our time. Some wait for very little reward!

WW initial issues with breakdowns and outbursts, I feel were 100% genuine. Although all about her and basic manipulation. she admits this albeit unintentional.

I have learnt from this so far. In terms of absolutely never trusting another human 100% again. It is just not a requirement. I would not allow myself to tolerate my wife or another, if this goes to full break up, to be in close 1 on 1 contact with another male without very good reason. Namely work.And then it would have to be reasonable and specific in nature.

Looking back, I had long covid pretty bad when the Affair started and this skewed my normal insight a huge amount. Which only makes the scummy behaviour worse.

I still lurk on the forums watching and learning from others.

My Son is the only reason that I am giving chance to move past this, I feel that I am emotionally equipped also. In the absence of a youngster, I would not have posted here as it would be finished. I have done that in the past and will still do so now if genuine effort is not present or any flakey behaviour is observed. And that would be my 'go to' stance in general. I still feel that even in optimum situations with full remorse, at some point the WW gets the benefit of a rug sweep at some point in the future an understand that is the reason for divorce being the only real card you can pull to avoid being cuckolded.

Any changes or further help, I will always post here. you guys were and are truly generous with time and assistance to those in need.


----------



## ConanHub

I need to say "good grief"!

When I am sick, Mrs. Conan isn't off getting her cervix splashed by some convenient penis she happens upon.

I travel often for work and she doesn't boink any friends and neighbors either.

You shouldn't have to be acting like an adult with a particularly stupid child.

I married a GAW and I suggest every man does likewise.

I understand about your child but how long will you play parent and warden to the ridiculous child you married?

I'm not trying to bash you. I'm pointing out some glaring points in both of you.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

SMFD01 said:


> My Son is the only reason that I am giving chance to move past this


[email protected] poor excuse in my book. The example you are setting your child about how to act when you get disrespected by your spouse in the worse possible way is setting him up for sure failure in his own future relationships.

You are raising a future doormat with that example.


----------



## SMFD01

ConanHub said:


> I need to say "good grief"!
> 
> When I am sick, Mrs. Conan isn't off getting her cervix splashed by some convenient penis she happens upon.
> 
> I travel often for work and she doesn't boink any friends and neighbors either.
> 
> You shouldn't have to be acting like an adult with a particularly stupid child.
> 
> I married a GAW and I suggest every man does likewise.
> 
> I understand about your child but how long will you play parent and warden to the ridiculous child you married?
> 
> I'm not trying to bash you. I'm pointing out some glaring points in both of you.


You are of course bang on point. It is appoint of contradiction that I have for sure. Bar this episode - albeit a 6 week sexathon, she is a model wife. Plus I will be absolutely slaughtered in Divorce if I proceed. 

It may come to that, I accept the fact.

The big point you make, is the one that sticks in my ribs also. The notion of being a guardian to a women child. But I have decided not to. If it goes awry, so be it.


----------



## *Deidre*

I hope that she is truly remorseful OP, and not just scared of losing her lifestyle, etc with you. You will only know that in time. But, best of luck to you with all of this.


----------



## ConanHub

Maybe you could take up spanking. She certainly needs it.🙄


----------



## Gabriel

Good luck - thanks for the update. 

Where you are at, is exactly where I thought you'd be. I mean, it sucks, there's no way around it. She can beg, grovel, promise, etc. and while it helps a little it doesn't take away the fact she had sex multiple times with another man and is tainted forever.

The only choice you have is to accept this reality and her contrition, or, end the marriage.

Your pain will likely get slowly more tolerable. It will never go away. But it can get dimmer, long term. 

One thing I wouldn't do is waylay exorbitant punishment. If you do that, or need to wield that to feel better, you might as well just kill the marriage.


----------



## QuietRiot

Is she still going to the gym? 
I highly doubt her brazen admiring of hot men has stopped though. She is definitely a “type”.

It really gets my goat when people say “oh my spouse is so great… except for that time they acted like a completely terrible and disgusting person for months. Otherwise… greatest spouse ever.” No. Your wife is a cheater, not a great wife. You don’t get tenure for wifeing and then earn cheating benefits for doing well. ugh.


----------



## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> One thing I wouldn't do is waylay exorbitant punishment. If you do that, or need to wield that to feel better, you might as well just kill the marriage.


Agreed on this point. I have let it go in fairness. No use threats, policing or trying to control that which is not within grasp.

Thanks Gabriel.


----------



## QuietRiot

SMFD01 said:


> Agreed on this point. I have let it go in fairness. No use threats, policing or trying to control that which is not within grasp.
> 
> Thanks Gabriel.


She must be smokin hot. Beer flavored nipples. Somethin.


----------



## *Deidre*

He said that if it weren't for their kid, he'd have left.


----------



## SMFD01

QuietRiot said:


> Is she still going to the gym?
> I highly doubt her brazen admiring of hot men has stopped though. She is definitely a “type”.
> 
> It really gets my goat when people say “oh my spouse is so great… except for that time they acted like a completely terrible and disgusting person for months. Otherwise… greatest spouse ever.” No. Your wife is a cheater, not a great wife. You don’t get tenure for wifeing and then earn cheating benefits for doing well. ugh.


I get it. Jack the Ripper had good points I bet.

As a husband, I also get to see the other 10 years and the good in the person every day. Not just the horrendous betrayal. But look, at the end of the day I have a Family and a lot to lose. The scales need balance and not with emotion. Happiness in my personal and family life is essential. If his can not be restored, then sure - Judge Jury and executioner.

Prior to turning my life around 20 plus years ago - I was a very different person on a different path. Although that path had been pre chosen for me and I had to fight to get out so not quite the same. I am still unrecognisable as a person inside and out.

It is rare to truly change I know that. I may just be a sucker. Time will tell. I may be kidding myself, I would say you have to in order to try again in honesty.

Without my Son in the picture then this scenario would not have occurred. It would even be treated as an opportunity. I have taken solid advice on this emotionally from you guys and I appreciate that, it means my guard will likely never come down. I have also taken legal advice and the cleaning room of financial suicide is not an option logically. My wife has signed to say she wants nothing on the initial stage of divorce, but the court will make an order for my Son - same outcome is I get rinsed badly.

She has signed a post nup also for whatever that is worth.

The scales have to balance. If she was still being a grade A scum bag, any signs and it would be over. As I will not accept that at all.

As for being a type - she has never been a type and hence the oddity here. I would not marry a women demonstrating such behaviour and I have known her by extended family for a long time. Low value is definitely in my mind now though. 

She only works out when I am present now.

The gym issue was an obvious trigger for me hence the post and I appreciate the eye opener to the meat market. I have observed and I see now.


----------



## Jimi007

I think you will be fine . Sounds like you have a solid plan and all the tools you need 😉 👌 💯 

As you said , only time will tell


----------



## Harold Demure

I agree with the post above. You can not cure her mental illness, only she can. What will happen though, is that YOU will become the one who becomes ill through the stress she gives you. I speak from far too much family experience on this!

I would look very carefully at getting out here because I have seen the damage that mental illness brings about that is long lasting and life changing.



If you do stay, do you need her to have consequences for her actions over and above the turmoil that you have already described?

If so, what would those consequences be?

Would they be enough to balance the scales?

If I am honest, I do not think that she has suffered any significant consequences that were not self induced. Suicide threats etc are of her own doing, not yours, and yet you have to deal with these.

You talked previously about her cake eating. Would stopping her going to any gym full stop (don’t know why you haven’t done this already) or severely restricting her access to money, phones, computers, going out etc provide you with that balance?


----------



## marko polo

Where there is a will, there is a way. Your wayward wife will find a way to step around whatever boundaries you have in place. 

You will likely find your effort at reconciliation wasted.


----------



## Jimi007

Harold Demure said:


> I agree with the post above. You can not cure her mental illness, only she can. What will happen though, is that YOU will become the one who becomes ill through the stress she gives you. I speak from far too much family experience on this!
> 
> I would look very carefully at getting out here because I have seen the damage that mental illness brings about that is long lasting and life changing.
> 
> 
> 
> If you do stay, do you need her to have consequences for her actions over and above the turmoil that you have already described?
> 
> If so, what would those consequences be?
> 
> Would they be enough to balance the scales?
> 
> If I am honest, I do not think that she has suffered any significant consequences that were not self induced. Suicide threats etc are of her own doing, not yours, and yet you have to deal with these.
> 
> You talked previously about her cake eating. Would stopping her going to any gym full stop (don’t know why you haven’t done this already) or severely restricting her access to money, phones, computers, going out etc provide you with that balance?


She only goes to the gym with him ...He's not stupid , he knows it's a meat market. 
( once bitten, twice shy ) OP has his ducks in a row
..


----------



## Harold Demure

Hi Jimi007, yes I appreciate that. The question I was asking was whether she faced consequences and whether stopping her going to the gym, obviously something she loves doing, should be a consequence that she has to face. More about driving home the reality of the situation than punishing her and, before anyone says, I do not believe her talking about suicide is her facing consequences, it is about drama and attention.

My experience of people committing suicide (and I have far too much experience of this) is they rarely talk about it - they just get on with it. How many times have people said that they never saw that coming? The trouble with “suicidal” people is that they put all of the stress and responsibility on to the shoulders of others.

Not an expert here by any means but, as Albert Einstein said, “experience is knowledge all the rest is just information.”


----------



## SMFD01

I agree in fairness. But I am pragmatic on this - I do no believe they ever have actual consequences. I mean - whatever I say she will do. Whatever I ask she will do.

But really does it cover it? I do not think so. Hence the whole show is on the Betrayed. That is what makes it a crap shoot.

I accepted that if we continue, then that is the reality. All of the reading on this comes right back to that point for all parties. Only Divorce would actually be punishment.


----------



## QuietRiot

SMFD01 said:


> I get it. Jack the Ripper had good points I bet.
> 
> As a husband, I also get to see the other 10 years and the good in the person every day. Not just the horrendous betrayal. But look, at the end of the day I have a Family and a lot to lose. The scales need balance and not with emotion. Happiness in my personal and family life is essential. If his can not be restored, then sure - Judge Jury and executioner.
> 
> Prior to turning my life around 20 plus years ago - I was a very different person on a different path. Although that path had been pre chosen for me and I had to fight to get out so not quite the same. I am still unrecognisable as a person inside and out.
> 
> It is rare to truly change I know that. I may just be a sucker. Time will tell. I may be kidding myself, I would say you have to in order to try again in honesty.
> 
> Without my Son in the picture then this scenario would not have occurred. It would even be treated as an opportunity. I have taken solid advice on this emotionally from you guys and I appreciate that, it means my guard will likely never come down. I have also taken legal advice and the cleaning room of financial suicide is not an option logically. My wife has signed to say she wants nothing on the initial stage of divorce, but the court will make an order for my Son - same outcome is I get rinsed badly.
> 
> She has signed a post nup also for whatever that is worth.
> 
> The scales have to balance. If she was still being a grade A scum bag, any signs and it would be over. As I will not accept that at all.
> 
> As for being a type - she has never been a type and hence the oddity here. I would not marry a women demonstrating such behaviour and I have known her by extended family for a long time. Low value is definitely in my mind now though.
> 
> She only works out when I am present now.
> 
> The gym issue was an obvious trigger for me hence the post and I appreciate the eye opener to the meat market. I have observed and I see now.


I think it’s not the meat market that’s the problem so much as your wife. She may have not exhibited any of these behaviors before, but I feel like once someone morally lets themselves completely off the chain and delves into destructive and addictive behaviors (and that is exactly what an affair is) it really does change the brain. So she may not have been this way before and had better self control and awareness, but she IS this way now. And now she will have to consistently and constantly fight against herself for years, if not forever, to remain faithful when her path crosses people who have the potential to get her high again. She’s already proven to you how her mind works, she seeks the high in seemingly innocuous moments when the man isn’t even interested. What happens if someone flirts at the grocery store, school functions, work, wherever?

The difference is whether she will change because she is afraid to lose her quality of life and you, (short term and unstable) or whether she changes because she recognizes that she’s a garbage person and deeply wants to amend who she is regardless of anything else, (long term and very difficult, but stable).

It’s your wife’s behavior and completely inappropriate thought processes that are worrisome. 

And yes, I get it, kids. Most of us have them. It’s always kids, being too old, or not wanting to throw away decades of marriage, or $$ as the reasons people stay together… but if not for that thing… we’d definitely leave. Believe me, I know all the reasons and used them all. I’m not trying to be an ass here, I’m just saying, your wife is a huge risk because of her behaviors, not the gym. The type of woman who ogles Thor-man after having an affair and brags about it to the man she just broke, is an unsafe bet. And callous. But she will be much more careful about hiding her behaviors now I think. 

This whole diatribe to say, you deserve better.


----------



## SMFD01

QuietRiot said:


> I think it’s not the meat market that’s the problem so much as your wife. She may have not exhibited any of these behaviors before, but I feel like once someone morally lets themselves completely off the chain and delves into destructive and addictive behaviors (and that is exactly what an affair is) it really does change the brain. So she may not have been this way before and had better self control and awareness, but she IS this way now. And now she will have to consistently and constantly fight against herself for years, if not forever, to remain faithful when her path crosses people who have the potential to get her high again. She’s already proven to you how her mind works, she seeks the high in seemingly innocuous moments when the man isn’t even interested. What happens if someone flirts at the grocery store, school functions, work, wherever?
> 
> The difference is whether she will change because she is afraid to lose her quality of life and you, (short term and unstable) or whether she changes because she recognizes that she’s a garbage person and deeply wants to amend who she is regardless of anything else, (long term and very difficult, but stable).
> 
> It’s your wife’s behavior and completely inappropriate thought processes that are worrisome.
> 
> And yes, I get it, kids. Most of us have them. It’s always kids, being too old, or not wanting to throw away decades of marriage, or $$ as the reasons people stay together… but if not for that thing… we’d definitely leave. Believe me, I know all the reasons and used them all. I’m not trying to be an ass here, I’m just saying, your wife is a huge risk because of her behaviors, not the gym. The type of woman who ogles Thor-man after having an affair and brags about it to the man she just broke, is an unsafe bet. And callous. But she will be much more careful about hiding her behaviors now I think.
> 
> This whole diatribe to say, you deserve better.


Thanks, I agree and you are right. She definitely realised how close to the bone it was after that bull stunt. She has now acknowledged how hideous she was and still is until proven otherwise and I believe deeply rooted to make changes. But as you note - it is not easy and who knows where these traits are established, let alone who would feel so entitled!

Your warnings and experience are being absorbed by me. Genuinely, any blip in any aspect and I have absolute certainty of outcome. I am also slowly preparing financially behind the scenes as the assets and finances can be tweaked, just not immediately all at once.


----------



## *Deidre*

SMFD01 said:


> I agree in fairness. But I am pragmatic on this - I do no believe they ever have actual consequences. I mean - whatever I say she will do. Whatever I ask she will do.
> 
> But really does it cover it? I do not think so. Hence the whole show is on the Betrayed. That is what makes it a crap shoot.
> 
> I accepted that if we continue, then that is the reality. All of the reading on this comes right back to that point for all parties. Only Divorce would actually be punishment.


If your wife is a decent human, the guilt of how she’s hurt you should be punishment enough. The fact that your marriage will be different now, she’ll always feel that shift, so punishment doesn’t have to be something you do. She’ll just reap what she has sown, but she’ll only feel that if she’s a decent person with renewed morals.


----------



## SunCMars

Mental illness is real.

Infdelity can be the result of having that lack of impulse control 

That said, you do not need to tolerate her behavior. 

She may find it hard to form boundaries, you have no such problem 

Consider divorce, not compromising your own principles.


----------



## Evinrude58

If you’re signing up for staying with this, how about letting her sign up for a majority slanted in your favor post nup? I think that’s the least she could do.

otherwise, when she cheats again you will be rewarding her for it even more.


----------



## SMFD01

Evinrude58 said:


> If you’re signing up for staying with this, how about letting her sign up for a majority slanted in your favor post nup? I think that’s the least she could do.
> 
> otherwise, when she cheats again you will be rewarding her for it even more.


We have this being dealt with now at solicitor. I mentioned above in the diatribe somewhere, she has requested zero - as I have filed for initial stage of divorce and paperwork landed on her table. The courts would not allow it however on joint custody, I still get taken to cleaners in effect. However - my little one will not be little forever and hence the post Nup.


----------



## SMFD01

SunCMars said:


> Mental illness is real.
> 
> Infdelity can be the result of having that lack of impulse control
> 
> That said, you do not need to tolerate her behavior.
> 
> She may find it hard to form boundaries, you have no such problem
> 
> Consider divorce, not compromising your own principles.


In some ways your point is one that strikes. Impulse control sexually I think is a big issue.


----------



## gameopoly5

SMFD01 said:


> Ok, I have a handle on this notion now. I agree. Prior to this thread I was like - its a public gym and given no issues over the past decade and the fact that her infidelity was linked to a person in close closed contact over time and not by opportunistic, I let my guard down. I see that is really dumb AF. Not an inch to be given.
> 
> The mental health is a bit more of an issue, I honestly am considering having her in an ambulance next time. As I am past dealing with that. When she is restrained to a bed medicated......maybe that will give her pause for thought.


By the sound of it you`d be wise to keep your wife restrained to a bed medicated for peace of mind that she doesn`t go out and open up (literally) for other guys again.
This is only one cheating episode you know about.
Your wife is a loose canon. If you remain with her you`ll always have trust issues and insecurities, worried about who she talks to, where she goes and who with.
If you can live with that than good luck to you.


----------



## SMFD01

gameopoly5 said:


> By the sound of it you`d be wise to keep your wife restrained to a bed medicated for peace of mind that she doesn`t go out and open up (literally) for other guys again.
> This is only one cheating episode you know about.
> Your wife is a loose canon. If you remain with her you`ll always have trust issues and insecurities, worried about who she talks to, where she goes and who with.
> If you can live with that than good luck to you.


I can not say that I disagree with this. I am certainly not giving up on the divorce notion.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

How have things been going @SMFD01 ?


----------



## Rob_1

BigDaddyNY said:


> How have things been going @SMFD01 ?


What do you think? of course, same ole, same ole.


----------



## SMFD01

Rob_1 said:


> What do you think? of course, same ole, same ole.


Not quite big guy

Reconciliation has been absolutely fine - a dream. Remorseful wife with bi monthly writing of apologies and thoughts and begging. Contrite behaviour and simple acceptance.

But that is also what I had for 10 years and it did not stop the sociopathic tendencies of burning me with betrayal. 

I have read her journal. She did write on 1st page - not for my eyes (My Bad) But then I did write to her explaining initially that an absolute open book in every aspect and facet is required - to which she agreed. 

In which I found a lot of "pooooor litttlllle meeee" undertones and a very mild attempt at gaslighting and history rewriting of herself. If that makes sense? 

And so it ends. 

Sad, I believe that is remorseful and believe that it will not happen again in future relationships as it was hard on her.


----------



## Jimi007

I'm really glad to hear your update ...I'm assuming you didn't beat the F out of the personal trainer...Your thread was the 1st of 3 that I followed concerning the gym and PT'S. 

My best friends wife fell for one and she is 60. He Confronted the PT after she lieď...He lied too but he had the skinny on them. Got everything he needed with a PI.

They are divorcing....your thread help me help him to navigate thru the bs.

Gyms are a cesspool of infidelity...

Best wishes. JIMI


----------



## SMFD01

No

When confronted he begged and pleaded with croc tears - like a female would....

Says it all, the war is won in the mind!


----------



## bygone

it was enough.

I refrained from commenting as I would recommend leaving. your decision is right

You will be sad for a while because you broke up with her, but triggers, insecurities, snooping, living with her desire to sleep with men without trying to control it?

She suffered a breakdown not because she cheated, but because she was caught.



she will have no problem crossing the borders, she will cheat, she will learn what she can do to avoid being caught.

she will eat her cake and have sex with the mass and size of her choice,


----------



## SMFD01

bygone said:


> it was enough.
> 
> I refrained from commenting as I would recommend leaving. your decision is right
> 
> You will be sad for a while because you broke up with her, but triggers, insecurities, snooping, living with her desire to sleep with men without trying to control it?
> 
> She suffered a breakdown not because she cheated, but because she was caught.
> 
> 
> 
> she will have no problem crossing the borders, she will cheat, she will learn what she can do to avoid being caught.
> 
> she will eat her cake and have sex with the mass and size of her choice,



In the end, no matter what I told myself, it was about respect and trust. 

Personally I have switched off to it. After being through the saga in a pst marriage - I get it. Finally. 

A bit awkward as she works with me, but the affair led to dereliction of working and basically theft of time whilst at work. There was plenty for Gross Misconduct. Still in the same house, but not for long as she has to go in simple terms. 

It is devastating from a financial perspective, but then I have enough to live and do the things I enjoy without worrying too much.

It is quite liberating, I found this with past marriage, it really just made me feel better, which may be the case for most others.

I knew you guys were correct to be honest. It is just getting around to it. Without my son - it would have occurred instantly.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Britain doesn’t treat dads well. What can you expect to have to pay her?


----------



## SMFD01

ArthurGPym said:


> Britain doesn’t treat dads well. What can you expect to have to pay her?


it will depend upon on how the is settled.

I am informed that a 60/40 split in all assets in wife's favour.

£700 ish per month in support additional.

3.5 days each with my Son.

This is of course a start point and is in keeping with many friends past experience.

Very early stages on this, there are things that can be done and I did exit a past marriage without paying my Ex/wife a dime as you guys would say. But I have a child here and hence very different.

Oh and I carry on paying the school fees at a grand per month.

I am going to enjoy being bent of over I am sure.

This is why it is such a large issue. Its ok telling somebody - Wife is a 314 she must go, but there is a cost that I actually will never recover from. 

She still begs daily. Tugs on my purse strings :-(


----------



## SunCMars

SMFD01 said:


> Wife is a 314 she must go, but there is a cost that I actually will never recover from.


314?

Proverbs 3:14 
_For she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold._

Not this, I presume, as she is not bright as a button, more the Chav.

....................................................................................


_Lust is an enemy of restraint.

There should be no need of restraint, more that, thoughtful refrain.

Refrain is an organ, an appendage that is missing in children, and sometimes never appearing when their majority is met.


The Typist-_


----------



## bygone

SMFD01 said:


> it will depend upon on how the is settled.
> 
> I am informed that a 60/40 split in all assets in wife's favour.
> 
> £700 ish per month in support additional.
> 
> 3.5 days each with my Son.
> 
> This is of course a start point and is in keeping with many friends past experience.
> 
> Very early stages on this, there are things that can be done and I did exit a past marriage without paying my Ex/wife a dime as you guys would say. But I have a child here and hence very different.
> 
> Oh and I carry on paying the school fees at a grand per month.
> 
> I am going to enjoy being bent of over I am sure.
> 
> This is why it is such a large issue. Its ok telling somebody - Wife is a 314 she must go, but there is a cost that I actually will never recover from.
> 
> She still begs daily. Tugs on my purse strings :-(


You may consider staying together after divorce.

may want to gain your trust as a girlfriend

marriage will never be on the table

if she cheats, she will have a few days to leave the house etc. you can talk to the lawyer


if you want to try with it


----------



## Wolfman1968

SMFD01 said:


> it will depend upon on how the is settled.
> 
> I am informed that a 60/40 split in all assets in wife's favour.
> 
> £700 ish per month in support additional.
> 
> 3.5 days each with my Son.
> 
> This is of course a start point and is in keeping with many friends past experience.
> 
> Very early stages on this, there are things that can be done and I did exit a past marriage without paying my Ex/wife a dime as you guys would say. But I have a child here and hence very different.
> 
> Oh and I carry on paying the school fees at a grand per month.
> 
> I am going to enjoy being bent of over I am sure.
> 
> This is why it is such a large issue. Its ok telling somebody - Wife is a 314 she must go, but there is a cost that I actually will never recover from.
> 
> She still begs daily. Tugs on my purse strings :-(



What's the logic for a 60/40 split of assets in Britain? Why don't they do a 50/50 like in the US? (I know in the US judges fudge in the woman's favor often, but at least on paper it's supposed to be 50/50)


----------



## Rob_1

SMFD01 said:


> Not quite big guy


I would say that yes, it's the same old.

You stayed with a cheating woman. She put one on you and you stayed.

I wouldn't ever have the stomach to ever touch a woman again tha while being my woman ****s another dude. No way, I have way too much self respect and dignity to reconcile. Just the knowledge that I will never forget those mind movies is enough for me.

Nonetheless, congratulations to you since you got what you wanted. Hope it last.


----------



## SMFD01

Wolfman1968 said:


> What's the logic for a 60/40 split of assets in Britain? Why don't they do a 50/50 like in the US? (I know in the US judges fudge in the woman's favor often, but at least on paper it's supposed to be 50/50)


There is zero logic in her having any of my assets. They would be my assets if she had not married me. They were not dependent upon "support" from wife. It is plain wrong. But here we are.


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## Nucking Futs

SunCMars said:


> 314?
> 
> Proverbs 3:14
> _For she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold._
> 
> Not this, I presume, as she is not bright as a button, more the Chav.
> 
> ....................................................................................
> 
> 
> _Lust is an enemy of restraint.
> 
> There should be no need of restraint, more that, thoughtful refrain.
> 
> Refrain is an organ, an appendage that is missing in children, and sometimes never appearing when their majority is met.
> 
> 
> The Typist-_


Should be 304. Put that in an old style calculator then hold it upside down and read it. If you really want to revert to middle school you can do the same with 5318008.


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## Exit37

So, I feel like I must have missed something. A few months back you decided to go for R…. And since then, she has been a model wife, writes you apology notes, etc. But, there was some “woe is me” stuff and self-gaslighting in her diary that you read, so you’ve decided to push forward with the divorce?

No judgment — her crime was certainly enough, and I’ve always said the BS can decide to withdraw R at any time, I’m just a bit surprised at this. Like I said, feels like I missed something.


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## Jimi007

Exit37 said:


> So, I feel like I must have missed something. A few months back you decided to go for R…. And since then, she has been a model wife, writes you apology notes, etc. But, there was some “whoa is me” stuff and self-gaslighting in her diary that you read, so you’ve decided to push forward with the divorce?
> 
> No judgment — her crime was certainly enough, and I’ve always said the BS can decide to withdraw R at any time, I’m just a bit surprised at this. Like I said, feels like I missed something.


Same here....?


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## SMFD01

Exit37 said:


> So, I feel like I must have missed something. A few months back you decided to go for R…. And since then, she has been a model wife, writes you apology notes, etc. But, there was some “whoa is me” stuff and self-gaslighting in her diary that you read, so you’ve decided to push forward with the divorce?
> 
> No judgment — her crime was certainly enough, and I’ve always said the BS can decide to withdraw R at any time, I’m just a bit surprised at this. Like I said, feels like I missed something.


During a conversation, we had moments when discussing what had happened, she would be changing what her intent and mindset were. Deflecting into - "I felt so guilty" I tried to figure a way out after the 1st contact"

I re read the original Story/timeline that she sent me and her view now was completely different to at the time. She was basically re writing history herself.

I am finding it difficult to be genuine or have connection that is not forced on my side. I do not believe any emotion she shares towards me as anything else, other than manipulation and being "false"

The thing is, I am all over the place. These points, most would not see, they are minor and slight, but betray a certain mindset.

She does not want to go, and professes that the above is her mind or introspection altering it. WW keeps asking for more time to prove and show to me etc.

The difficulty is that no way exists to show or prove anything, she has already demonstrated and proven. What am I supposed to wait 10 years and then get shafted again or praise her as a good wife for telling me that she turned down an opportunity? They are basic fundamental expectations.

I do not think she will do it again as it happens. I do not want to pay out to walk away either. Would much rather she had kept her knickers on.

If I change with the wind again, well so be it. But it is a definite knife edge for me emotionally at the moment.


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## Gabriel

Reading through these last new posts, I am probably as confused as you are. On one hand, she must go. On another hand, reconciliation has been a dream.

So I take it you haven't decided whether to divorce or not?


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## Tdbo

SMFD01 said:


> I do not think she will do it again as it happens. I do not want to pay out to walk away either. Would much rather she had kept her knickers on.
> 
> If I change with the wind again, well so be it. But it is a definite knife edge for me emotionally at the moment.


Well, it is cheaper to keep her.
How bad does she want to remain in the marriage? I think you said that you had a postnup? Is she willing to sweeten it? 
What is she willing to do to repair the damage? What can she do (besides avoid the thing that caused this) to make amends and repair the damage?
Can a balance be struck where she rehabilitates herself and get the consequences that she rightly deserves, and you get a relationship that you find palatable and workable?
I only mention this because it sounds like you are waffling. You can file and control the tempo of the divorce. Something might occur that would change the dynamics, and your view of things.


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## uwe.blab

'whoa is me'....nice.


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## SMFD01

Tdbo said:


> Well, it is cheaper to keep her.
> How bad does she want to remain in the marriage? I think you said that you had a postnup? Is she willing to sweeten it?
> What is she willing to do to repair the damage? What can she do (besides avoid the thing that caused this) to make amends and repair the damage?
> Can a balance be struck where she rehabilitates herself and get the consequences that she rightly deserves, and you get a relationship that you find palatable and workable?
> I only mention this because it sounds like you are waffling. You can file and control the tempo of the divorce. Something might occur that would change the dynamics, and your view of things.


I filed a while back, around September. It is a 2/3 part process. Part 1 is underway or close to complete. She has been filed.

She notes that she will do anything. Thing is, she was a dream wife if every other way previously. I do not believe that I am rose tinting it.

I can not get out of the divorce settlement due to a child involved, it will end in a family court likely even if she does not want that. So although she says that she would never take a penny from me...... 

We are fine day to day. It is just the internal voice that is loud.


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## SMFD01

Tdbo said:


> Well, it is cheaper to keep her.
> How bad does she want to remain in the marriage? I think you said that you had a postnup? Is she willing to sweeten it?
> What is she willing to do to repair the damage? What can she do (besides avoid the thing that caused this) to make amends and repair the damage?
> Can a balance be struck where she rehabilitates herself and get the consequences that she rightly deserves, and you get a relationship that you find palatable and workable?
> I only mention this because it sounds like you are waffling. You can file and control the tempo of the divorce. Something might occur that would change the dynamics, and your view of things.


As usual, placing it into words here helps others cut through your own ******** for you.

I think I understood at the outset, the scales can not be balanced. Living with that is not as simple as the concept. What can a W/W do to balance.

The palatable aspect that you mention is likely the block in my mind/gut at the moment. It basically sticks in and I don't whine like a little child about this out loud ever. But - It ain't fair :-D 

Typically I make fast and definite decisions. As noted I have an ex/W where that decision took a nano second. I never ever spoke or looked at her again. But here, the woman is different in many ways, as is the situation with family etc.


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## SMFD01

Gabriel said:


> Reading through these last new posts, I am probably as confused as you are. On one hand, she must go. On another hand, reconciliation has been a dream.
> 
> So I take it you haven't decided whether to divorce or not?


I struggle still to say it is decided until the process is complete? During this whole ordeal, I have tried not to let my own demons and impulsiveness win over the longer picture or indeed my Son's welfare. Something that I take very seriously.


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## Exit37

uwe.blab said:


> 'whoa is me'....nice.


Darn, fixed it. Tks.


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## Beach123

SMFD01 said:


> Thanks for comment. Are we saying that basically never to be trusted? Or that trust takes a long time to earn or what. I am trying to understand the benefit of not leaving the house alone at this stage. I take your advice as intended for sure, just trying to understand the entire picture from experience of others?


You definitely can’t trust her. And she certainly isn’t doing everything in her power to earn your trust back.

You have no marriage. She’s ruined it! She is still purposely ruining it while she roadblocks you wanting to know everything about her affair.

My suggestion… since she hasn’t changed = divorce her. She a typical cheater in the prowl.

Does she work? Tell her to leave and figure out how to support herself and set up her own household somewhere else!

File divorce papers - request custody of your kids.

Seriously, she’s had no consequences. That means she will just do it again.

Start telling everyone you know what a cheater and lousy wife she is. This is true info - she did this - this is the truth. If she gets mad then tell her to be mad at herself because this IS who she is.

The sooner you start building a new life without her (the unremorseful cheater) the sooner you can be happy again.


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## SMFD01

Beach123 said:


> You definitely can’t trust her. And she certainly isn’t doing everything in her power to earn your trust back.
> 
> You have no marriage. She’s ruined it! She is still purposely ruining it while she roadblocks you wanting to know everything about her affair.
> 
> My suggestion… since she hasn’t changed = divorce her. She a typical cheater in the prowl.
> 
> Does she work? Tell her to leave and figure out how to support herself and set up her own household somewhere else!
> 
> File divorce papers - request custody of your kids.
> 
> Seriously, she’s had no consequences. That means she will just do it again.
> 
> Start telling everyone you know what a cheater and lousy wife she is. This is true info - she did this - this is the truth. If she gets mad then tell her to be mad at herself because this IS who she is.
> 
> The sooner you start building a new life without her (the unremorseful cheater) the sooner you can be happy again.


The divorce is in progress.

She works currently in my company.

No chance of her leaving in that way, I would not do that or cause disruption to my son. But also it is simply not viable over here.
The reality is - I have to pay her to leave in Divorce - 300K or more cash and around 7-800 per month plus 1k per month tuition.

She has already approached my and her own (limited) family and explained/apologised) I went nuclear immediately.

Do not disagree with he last sentiment hence wavering !


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## Harold Demure

SMDF01, sorry you are having to deal with all this.

Don’t know if I am correct here but options being explored seem to be all or nothing in all cases.

Do you have to get divorced at this moment? Not saying you have to reconcile, just not divorce yet. 

Is there a compromise option whereby you are not punished financially? Why get divorced when you could keep her at arms length/live like room mates/emotionally detach (or what ever you want to call it), keep her working in your company so that you at least get something out of the money you pay her and not have to pay out?

May not be everybody’s cup of tea but it could, at least, buy you time.


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## SMFD01

Harold Demure said:


> SMDF01, sorry you are having to deal with all this.
> 
> Don’t know if I am correct here but options being explored seem to be all or nothing in all cases.
> 
> Do you have to get divorced at this moment? Not saying you have to reconcile, just not divorce yet.
> 
> Is there a compromise option whereby you are not punished financially? Why get divorced when you could keep her at arms length/live like room mates/emotionally detach (or what ever you want to call it), keep her working in your company so that you at least get something out of the money you pay her and not have to pay out?
> 
> May not be everybody’s cup of tea but it could, at least, buy you time.


 This is likely a good compromise. I am just nit sure if time is a cure or not. But I guess that only one way to figure it out, is to try. That is definite food for thought. My W/W has actually told me that is fine with this notion and just give her time to show me....


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## Harold Demure

I do think some degree of emotional detachment may help if you do go down that path to protect your mental health.


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## Tdbo

SMFD01 said:


> This is likely a good compromise. I am just nit sure if time is a cure or not. But I guess that only one way to figure it out, is to try. That is definite food for thought. My W/W has actually told me that is fine with this notion and just give her time to show me....


This is kind of what I was referring to when I mentioned by working out a balance.
There really is no "Cure" to this. She can't go back and unbang Biff at the gym. She can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
Divorce would bring closure, that's all.
Here is an idea: Either you have discussed this notion with the Wife, or she has envisioned this on her own accord.
Give her a pad of paper and a pen. Tell her to put together a proposal for this very thing. Tell her that you will listen and consider, but is incumbent upon her to make the deal advantageous to you, and sell it.
It would be interesting, It would show you how serious she really is. It would demonstrate how much remorse she really has for her actions. What she is willing to do? How hard is she willing to work to fix her malfunctions that led to this? What is she willing to do to help fix you and repair the damage she created?, etc........
If you stay with her, you will never have the same relationship that you had. It will be different.
However, that's not all bad.
Because in this one, she banged Biff from the gym.


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