# Input wanted



## alm1817 (Aug 11, 2017)

A little about us...
I am 4 years older than my Wife, we got together when she was 16 and I was 20, she had never had intercourse until we started dating. Boyfriends before me got blow jobs hand jobs, but she claims that is it. After we were together for a few years, in early 1998 she started a new job an an auto dealer. She met a guy there who she started having feelings for. She decided we should separate and I was not interested, but respected her wishes. We were apart for about a year, during that time, I have no idea what sexual things she did, or didn't do. She tells me she didn't do anything, but I am not an idiot. When I press she would just get indignant, so I leave it alone. I tell her I want to know if she has doe as it excites me, I enjoy hearing about it, but to no avail. We ended up reconciling in 1999. She moved into my place. From my early 20's I have had HotWife/swinging desires or fantasies. I would discuss it with her, and she would listen but never showed interest into the lifestyle.

Fast forward to 2006 we get married, and have our first kid in 2007. 2 more kids by 2012. Then in 2013, something strange arose. I had bought her a new laptop to replace her old one. She asked me to setup the new laptop and transfer her itunes/photos/files etc to the new computer. I found a document file. It was a yahoo messenger archive. I don't think she even had a clue that her yahoo messenger was saving her conversations. So I read the file, it goes back to 2005. I see that in 2005 she was meeting with a local guy when I was out of town on business. Not sure how long it went on, but the meetings did happen. The file has nothing significant around the time we got married moving forward. So I think about it, this is years in the past we are now married 3 kids, and happy, but I cannot resist the temptation to question her.

So I question her about it one, night, she denies it, I then produce the proof. She then admits it was only a 1 weekend thing, but all she did was give him blow jobs and hand jobs, never had sex. So she then goes on being the victim being upset about how I invaded her privacy and she doesn't trust me, etc.. So I kinda just let it alone, periodically I would ask her to just fess up to everything, reminding her I love this stuff and I love her. She never claimed to do anything else. Did she? Didn't she? I have no idea. So from that time in 2013 to 2017, we continue to live monogamous vanilla lives. Happily I might add, no other incidents or flags I that I saw.

In March 2017 we are going out as a family to visit friends. She forgets her phone in the house and I was running in to grab something for the kids, she asks me to grab her phone. When picking up her phone she has a facebook messenger text, I see the name and its a guys name I do not recognize. So I read the message. Sexually charged message exchange between her and this guy. So I go to the car, hand her the phone and ask her who is this guy? She says oh its Jeremy, and he and I have been chatting since the old yahoo messenger days when I encouraged her to chat as a foreplay thing for us. When she says it, I do remember Jeremy and her chatting. I am like ok, that was like 10 years ago, this has been going on for 10 years unknown to me? Do I have anything to be concerned with because I read the messages... she says no, its all just fun talk and this is what you have been wanting for years anyway right? I agreed, she was right. It is what I wanted, just not quite the way I envisioned it going... I wait a few days and tell her I am ok with her chatting with this guy, but I would like to know the details and such. She says ok. After a few weeks, I ask her what they been talking about and she gives no details, just vague answers, life kids, work, etc. I said ok, I still want to know the details no matter how vague or hot. She says ok, I also told her to tell me if she exchanges pics with him or not. A few more days go by and now she is getting more possessive with her phone, taking into the bathroom and pretty much not leaving it out of her sight. Red flag, I wait a couple days for the opportunity to snoop, when I do I see she has been exchanging nude pics and videos with this guy. I casually ask her if they have been getting any heated talks or photo exchanges, she says no. I wait a while and I cant stand it anymore and I tell her she is a liar, I know you have been doing pics and videos with him. She still tried to deny, I tell her exactly what I saw, and she admits to 1 pic, I call her lie again, and she admits to more. I do know she hasn't met this guy, he lives in the midwest we are on west coast. What I don't understand is the need to lie when you are given freedom to do it? She says she was embarrassed to let me see what she has been doing, afraid I would judge her or lose respect for her. She says she this is a guilty pleasure and has no intent on it moving forward other than sexting.. She talks to him like she is a woman I do not know, she doesn't talk like that to me, never did. It is really bizarre to see the proof of what your wife is capable of when you don't think it is possible.

I told her this is her last chance, come clean with it all, anything moving forward I need to know about. I am probably just setting myself up for disappointment.

So over the past few months we have talked in very deep detail about making this a reality, and it will happen eventually. My wife is the type who needs to "friends" with a guy to even consider having sex with him, so the process is long. I assume after the first guy or 2 she will lower her rules on that, but either way I will support her.

She says she is interested, but the first time she wants to have sex with a guy alone, without my interference or any pressure on her to perform. Just want to be herself. This raises my anxiety and angst thru the roof.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

When you open Pandora's Box...... this is what you get.

Why are you allowing this when it obviously upsets you?

If she gets to sleep with others, do you?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Please tell me: Exactly what is the inherent benefit of staying in a relationship with a woman like that?*


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## alm1817 (Aug 11, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> When you open Pandora's Box...... this is what you get.
> 
> Why are you allowing this when it obviously upsets you?
> 
> If she gets to sleep with others, do you?


She says yes I can.


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## alm1817 (Aug 11, 2017)

arbitrator said:


> *Please tell me: Exactly what is the inherent benefit of staying in a relationship with a woman like that?*


Trying to figure that out myself, part of the reason I ask for input here is to get fresh perspectives.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Any time you open a relationship in any way the biggest thing you need are rules. 

That type of fetish should include a rule that 
A- nothing is done in secret
B- you are there for every encounter 

Add rules like you can veto guys you truly don't want. Condoms are needed, etc

Be very clear about where your limits are and set a word that will full stop everything if either of you wants to stop it. 

Dating and sleeping with others without you is an entirely different dynamic. It doesn't sound like she wants the hot wife situation but wants a free pass to sleep with this man. Don't be surprised if she continues to need more times alone, a few dates, and on and on without ever including you. 

If your rule is that you are there, hold it. Don't bend. 

Starting anything like this with secrets and a marriage that isn't solid is a bad idea. You two need to be in a good place first. She's been doing this behind your back, that does not fair well for her holding the needed boundaries later. If you can't trust her now you can't trust her in a situation like this so you need to figure that part out before you do anything else


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Open marriages do work for some people. Yet that can still lead to cheating. Failure rates is about the same as mono-marriages.
The requirement for open marriages is VERY open and honest communications. 

YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT IN YOUR MARRIAGE! NEVER HAD IT, SINCE DAY 1!

IMHO, your chances of the failure of your marriage is 100%. Currently, the chances of your marriage already failing is above 80%. Why?
1 - Your wife is already / has had past EA and likely PAs behind your back. She even knows you are wanting her to have sex with other men - but still does this.
2 - Jeremy. The sexual messages are major red flags.
3 - Rules for Open Marriage require having both of you to have boundaries and acceptable agreements. You have none of that.
4 - "Just want to be herself. This raises my anxiety and angst thru the roof." = You *ALREADY* have anxiety.
5 - her past shows she has been have sexual interactions of some-sort with other men - but has been lying to you about it. So now, you are offering her your blessing to have sex with other men. But again, no boundaries. So she is pretending to be the "good faithful wife" she is telling you. So let's say she starts having sex with David. You have issues and tell her no. You don't know about Sam, but when you do - both are okay for her to continue because YOU ALREADY gave her your blessing.

IE: Women look for loopholes. Mine did, many will. Remember, many women will not count blowjobs and handjobs as "sex"... hell, not even anal sex would count if they don't want it to.

6 - With her past, it already SHOWS she will cheat on you. When cheats in front of you - eventually one guy will be her new love and will leave you for him. Maybe he has a bigger penis? Gives her good anal, chokes her the way you don't.

7 - She is already gaslighting you. This tells me (and likely most others here) that she is already cheating ON YOU. Gaslighting requires having a cheater's mental state of mind.

Question 1: Have you ever had sex with another woman behind your wife's back? 
Question 2: DO/DID you plan to have sex with other women - while she has permission to have sex with men?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

So she is clearly a liar, a cheater, and decietful....great way to start an open relationship....you realize this will not end well...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

alm1817 said:


> She says yes I can.


Saying yes you can because she wants to sleep with her new boyfriend is not a good idea. 

May I recommend you check out fetlife? Post in and read some groups of poly, open and hot wife couples. Getting some input from people who have been there,
Know what can and will go wrong and how to set up the proper conversations needed. 

Every time I read a story or post of it going wrong, there were red flags that one partner couldn't follow boundaries and be trusted in the first place let alone in an open marriage.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

First, she's lying. DUH.

She's a serial cheat. As in she's been banging other dudes for years. Why wouldn't she? Taking her back after she summarily left you so that she could do precisely that told her that you're OK with it. And now you've more or less doubled down on that with your professed enthusiasm at the prospect of _watching_ other dudes nail her.

Second, she's never going to be into the hotwife/swinging thing. She might play along for a little bit, but eventually you're going to figure out that all she's really doing is using it to somewhat legitimize her relationships with all the guys she's been banging for years right up under your nose. That will probably happen around the time that you're uninvited from her bang sessions with them. (Hopefully it won't be too long before they get tired of rubbing your nose in it.)

Do any of your kids look like Jeremy? DNA them either way.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Also, based on the years, she is about 38 and you are 42?


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> When you open Pandora's Box...... this is what you get.
> 
> Why are you allowing this when it obviously upsets you?
> 
> If she gets to sleep with others, do you?





alm1817 said:


> She says yes I can.





SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Any time you open a relationship in any way the biggest thing you need are rules.
> 
> That type of fetish should include a rule that
> A- nothing is done in secret
> ...





TaDor said:


> Open marriages do work for some people. Yet that can still lead to cheating. Failure rates is about the same as mono-marriages.
> The requirement for open marriages is VERY open and honest communications.
> 
> YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT IN YOUR MARRIAGE! NEVER HAD IT, SINCE DAY 1!


Honestly, from your initial posts and responses, it sounds like your wife is asking for an open relationship that you very clearly do not want. I'm all for open relationships - I'm in one myself - but they do require 100% open/honest communication and trust. SlowlyGoingCrazy is totally correct with their assessment. If you enter an open relationship, you enter it with extremely strict rules that you both agree upon and stick to. My DH and I modeled ours after BDSM contracts, where all the boundaries are written out and everyone signs. This can be kind of unsexy, but it shows that everyone is on the same page, including the introduced partner. While our rules don't include being present for every encounter, they do include getting documentation like recent STD tests from new partners before initial play, requirements for proof of birth control, not drinking/getting high around partners or possible partners, etc. Open relationships can absolutely still lead to cheating - there's still structure involved, and when that structure is violated, that's cheating.

TaDor is also totally correct here - your wife does not have what it takes to engage in an open relationship. Frankly, her request for one is much more likely a kind of loophole to excuse emotional or physical affairs she is having or wants to have. It's almost like she is asking you for forgiveness for past/current affairs by twisting you to agree to a different structure to your marriage. 

Don't agree to do things you don't want to do.


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## alm1817 (Aug 11, 2017)

TaDor said:


> Open marriages do work for some people. Yet that can still lead to cheating. Failure rates is about the same as mono-marriages.
> The requirement for open marriages is VERY open and honest communications.
> 
> YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT IN YOUR MARRIAGE! NEVER HAD IT, SINCE DAY 1!
> ...


1 Yes I have and wife has no clue about it. 
2 Yes if the situation arises.

Thank you for the reply.


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## alm1817 (Aug 11, 2017)

TaDor said:


> Also, based on the years, she is about 38 and you are 42?


she is 40 I am 44


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

So she is hitting her sexual prime. 24 years of being with you. And with her past, what do YOU want? The marriage with kids? Marriage after kids?

You added a lot more details to your original post. Please don't add more. One-thing to fix words here and there - it may confuse some people. Just add more in replies as needed. Anyway - the situation with the sexting is problematic. Next time, to retain evidence of such things. You may needed it legally or to move the direction of your marriage as she lied about what you saw. IE: Use your phone to take PICS of her phone. Make copies.

As a plain vanilla couple - you already have problematic red flags. Keeping the phone close to her is a sign. Taking a dump with the phone, well - everyone does it. My wife cheated on me... she even passworded her phone. Now, its open to me, as is mine. When yours locks her phone, you're in trouble.

You both should be going to a marriage counselor at this point. You both have books to read.

replying to my questions:
Q2 : You said "yeah you plan to have sex" - then *if* the situation arise. Best to keep the playing field even if you both do this. (Which I highly don't recommend)

Q1 : You already cheated on your wife, but concerned with her cheating. If or when your wife admits to having sex with someone else since your wedding day - you need to admit your own infidelity.

In 2015 - my marriage was open. We'd do kinky / wife-swap things / parties, etc - 3~4 times a month. Wife cheated on me, destroyed our relationship and no longer married. Thrown her out of our home. We've been back together for over a year now. We haven't done those parties or had sex with other people since then. We do some kink, but nothing like before. We are still friends with many of these people, we don't do sex play with them.

Starting/Being in a "friendship" with another man IS EXACTLY the WRONG way to do it. That will turn into an affair. If you both do this, do it only 1-2 times a year as a COUPLE. You can locate events or parties on Fetlife as posted earlier and get advice too.

Your marriage has problems. Opening it up to others will kill it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

When you hate yourself.........you do these things. 
When you hate yourself....others follow your lead.

When you continue to cut yourself....you slowly die. Loss of blood, maybe sepsis.

I see your behavior as destructive. 

Your' life, your' choices.

Check your brakes.
You have not used them in a long time.

Your wife? 
You two got engaged, then got married.
She dis-engaged from you right away. Her hook could not bury itself in your slippery behavior.

You are not marriage material. Your cloth is gossamer thin.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

It's pretty obvious that your wife wants to cheat, but she doesn't want your permission, and it ruins her excitement when she has to tell you about it. She doesn't want you involved. She's not in to swinging or your compersion fantasies. She's just a good, old fashioned, run of the mill cheater. 

And you have enabled her.

I can't offer you any advice because I don't understand your mindset.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

This the problem with Fantasy vs. reality...you might have shared the wife sharing fantasy with her, but the reality is she is cheating...she doesn't really care about respecting you, she is going to continue doing it and you have turned a blind eye or worse not put in place boundaries...so fantasy has become reality just not the way you thought it would turn out so your cuckold husband now...you know the old adage be careful what you wish for.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

alm1817 said:


> A little about us...
> I am 4 years older than my Wife, we got together when she was 16 and I was 20, she had never had intercourse until we started dating. Boyfriends before me got blow jobs hand jobs, but she claims that is it. After we were together for a few years, in early 1998 she started a new job an an auto dealer. She met a guy there who she started having feelings for. She decided we should separate and I was not interested, but respected her wishes. We were apart for about a year, during that time, I have no idea what sexual things she did, or didn't do. She tells me she didn't do anything, but I am not an idiot. When I press she would just get indignant, so I leave it alone. I tell her I want to know if she has doe as it excites me, I enjoy hearing about it, but to no avail. We ended up reconciling in 1999. She moved into my place. From my early 20's I have had HotWife/swinging desires or fantasies. I would discuss it with her, and she would listen but never showed interest into the lifestyle.
> 
> Fast forward to 2006 we get married, and have our first kid in 2007. 2 more kids by 2012. Then in 2013, something strange arose. I had bought her a new laptop to replace her old one. She asked me to setup the new laptop and transfer her itunes/photos/files etc to the new computer. I found a document file. It was a yahoo messenger archive. I don't think she even had a clue that her yahoo messenger was saving her conversations. So I read the file, it goes back to 2005. I see that in 2005 she was meeting with a local guy when I was out of town on business. Not sure how long it went on, but the meetings did happen. The file has nothing significant around the time we got married moving forward. So I think about it, this is years in the past we are now married 3 kids, and happy, but I cannot resist the temptation to question her.
> ...


What kind of H are you that actively encourages your wife to go f*** other men? Bizarre. I would divorce my H on the spot if he suggested anything like this. You have no idea what you are in for. You will regret this in the end, the other guy will not be so willing to share her and you will lose her. To me, if a man suggests this to his wife, he doesn't have much care or respect for her in the first place and some other man deserves her more. Good luck, you will need it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

alm1817 said:


> She says yes I can.


Did you actually ask for permission?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> Did you actually ask for permission?


And get it in writing with a witness?

I recommend getting it notarized too. 

You'll need this proof very soon.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

DNA your kids. She's been getting some regularly for years. 

This is too beta. Good luck


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

alm1817 said:


> 1 Yes I have and wife has no clue about it.
> 2 Yes if the situation arises.
> 
> Thank you for the reply.


When did you cheat? Why did it happen?

Are you CERTAIN your wife knows nothing about it?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Hotwifing is actually very common and can be totally healthy and loving. The men who enjoy it aren't unloving or beta or stupid. 

The problem is the OP doesn't have a situation where that can happen, not that he is interested in that kind of situation.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Hotwifing is actually very common and can be totally healthy and loving. The men who enjoy it aren't unloving or beta or stupid.
> 
> The problem is the OP doesn't have a situation where that can happen, not that he is interested in that kind of situation.


I had to look that one up... 

Invoke a demon, why would you expect an angel?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> I had to look that one up...
> 
> Invoke a demon, why would you expect an angel?


Not entirely sure what that means but it can be a very loving, healthy and connecting relationship. 

Many men and women enjoy different variation of it and other forms of ethical non-monogamy and it enhances their sex life and relationship as a whole. 

The OP doesn't have the base trust and relationship health to explore it. That's the only problem there. Even within like minded people he was told it's not possible.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

It means the odds of success are very slim that something mindful would come from extended practice...


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> It means the odds of success are very slim that something mindful would come from extended practice...


When done in a healthy and loving relationship, many couples have had various forms of non-monogamy for decades and are happy as can be. 

I don't agree with the "very slim" assessment but the results would be most dependent on the relationship as a whole outside of that part. 

OP would be not be successful.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> When done in a healthy and loving relationship, many couples have had various forms of non-monogamy for decades and are happy as can be.
> 
> I don't agree with the "very slim" assessment but the results would be most dependent on the relationship as a whole outside of that part.
> 
> OP would be not be successful.


I don't personally know anyone in such a relationship so my experience is virtually non-existant, but the links googled that discussed it left me seeing more pain than pleasure but if happiness can come from it for some then that is their choice.

I still feel it slim that there would be a high percentage of marriages/relationships that could run the distance.

I am stating feelings based on what I have learned of people, not delivering facts.

There are always those who will endeavor and survive such freedoms in a marriage.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Theres a lot of different ways to do it. Many don't involve anything insulting towards the man so no pain or humiliation. I didn't see anything in OPs post that he wanted the humiliation aspect (some guys do) but as more of a sharing and celebrating his wife's sexuality. 
Watching her with other men. Men like to watch porn, ends up being more like live action porn with the woman he adores and loves as the star. 

I found a lot of the women don't refer to themselves as hotwives but as "sl*ts" and it becomes a completely positive experience as a lot of women are shamed for being "sl*ts" and this allows them freedom from the negative and learn to embrace their sexuality, body image, and self esteem. A lot of it is done to help the woman grow into a more confident person and the man loves seeing his woman in that light. Feeling hot and sexy and desired.


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## alm1817 (Aug 11, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> When did you cheat? Why did it happen?
> 
> Are you CERTAIN your wife knows nothing about it?


2010 and she has no clue, it was with a former lover. It happened because I wanted it to happen. First and only time I ever wandered, felt immediate guilt and never wanted to feel that again.


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## alm1817 (Aug 11, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Theres a lot of different ways to do it. Many don't involve anything insulting towards the man so no pain or humiliation. I didn't see anything in OPs post that he wanted the humiliation aspect (some guys do) but as more of a sharing and celebrating his wife's sexuality.
> Watching her with other men. Men like to watch porn, ends up being more like live action porn with the woman he adores and loves as the star.
> 
> I found a lot of the women don't refer to themselves as hotwives but as "sl*ts" and it becomes a completely positive experience as a lot of women are shamed for being "sl*ts" and this allows them freedom from the negative and learn to embrace their sexuality, body image, and self esteem. A lot of it is done to help the woman grow into a more confident person and the man loves seeing his woman in that light. Feeling hot and sexy and desired.


I would agree with this, my wife has body issues and as she ages those issues seem to continue to get more difficult for her to accept.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I don't think I could handle another man touching my wife. The concept of polyamory is fine in theory, BUT in practice is just not for me. I have rarely found anyone in that lifestyle that had long-term success at an open relationship, although I am sure there are such people. I have seen more than one person devastated by it. More often than not, I have seen that lifestyle used against partners in divorce litigation.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

alm1817 said:


> I would agree with this, my wife has body issues and as she ages those issues seem to continue to get more difficult for her to accept.


I saw your post OP, I hope you understand that the problem isn't in the desire for this but who it's with and her problems with boundaries. 

It really can be a positive and loving experience but can quickly turn bad when boundaries aren't followed. People need more communication and trust than a full mono relationship so I just don't see it going well. 

Personally I also think it works better with nameless bulls or anonymous encounters (such as going to glory holes or coed bath houses) because when you put feelings in the mix it is a trickier situation. 

Unless you both go full poly and have actual relationships outside one another, which seems like she would want to have with this man. But starting with secrecy and lack of trust just doesn't work. She'll never keep her boundaries.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Not entirely sure what that means but it can be a very loving, healthy and connecting relationship.
> 
> Many men and women enjoy different variation of it and other forms of ethical non-monogamy and it enhances their sex life and relationship as a whole.
> 
> The OP doesn't have the base trust and relationship health to explore it. That's the only problem there. Even within like minded people he was told it's not possible.


OK :|

This might work "better" in a non-marital relationship. Where the boyfriend shares the girlfriend, on occasion. You know, to keep her happy, to keep her from [straying, further, more often].

That way if she is "taken" away by one of her lovers, the damage is more emotional, less financial.

Then again, what do I know. It is a free country. There is room for everybody. Sigh..


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Taxman said:


> I don't think I could handle another man touching my wife. The concept of polyamory is fine in theory, BUT in practice is just not for me. I have rarely found anyone in that lifestyle that had long-term success at an open relationship, although I am sure there are such people. I have seen more than one person devastated by it. More often than not, I have seen that lifestyle used against partners in divorce litigation.


Yes.

The problem is this:

Both people have to be happy with this arrangement.

Two people...twice this odds of disappointment and failure occurring.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

SunCMars said:


> OK :|
> 
> This might work "better" in a non-marital relationship. Where the boyfriend shares the girlfriend, on occasion. You know, to keep her happy, to keep her from [straying, further, more often].
> 
> ...


It's quite common. You'd likely be shocked that several of your friends and family may be participating in some kind of non-monogamy. Some couples are quite conservative on the outside and with anyone outside the lifestyle. They are really just normal people. 

If he's doing it to keep her from straying then it's IMO the wrong reason 

He wants to watch or hear about his wife sleeping with or servicing various men. He enjoys it. 
She wants to share that with him and enjoys it. 
Sometimes he's being submissive in his role, sometimes dominant (and vice versa for her) but the reasons are always positive. 

Being married helps some of that have that "she's mine" part which is part of the thrill.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Unfortunately, nothing much shocks me as far as relationships go. Other things? I am shocked by dishonesty, by betrayal and abandonment of principles, but as far as relationships go? Damn, I have seen way too much. A lot of it saddens me. I have worked with couples who ditched years of marriage over an open relationship, that worked for the wife and not the husband who originally posited that departure from manogamy. I have seen couples who from the outside are quite conservative, almost "churchy", only to discover that is a cover for kink of highest degree (one invite, politely declined, and....yuck-the kind of people who once outed, I would not touch with someone else's d1ck). The one conclusion that I come to is, whatever floats your boat, as long as your thing does not impact me, go with my blessings, go.

Leave my wife and I on our little island of sanity, so that we can have our fun, and be left the hell alone.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It's quite common. You'd likely be shocked that several of your friends and family may be participating in some kind of non-monogamy. Some couples are quite conservative on the outside and with anyone outside the lifestyle. They are really just normal people.
> 
> If he's doing it to keep her from straying then it's IMO the wrong reason
> 
> ...


Sorry...... Jade does not look good on me. 

It clashes with my coloring.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> When done in a healthy and loving relationship, many couples have had various forms of non-monogamy for decades and are happy as can be.
> 
> I don't agree with the "very slim" assessment but the results would be most dependent on the relationship as a whole outside of that part.
> 
> OP would be not be successful.


The incremental pleasure derived from such relationships may or may not be worth the risk. 

I can't help but wonder about the priorities people place, or about the seemingly infinite amount of time and resources that they're willing to expand in pursuing such rewards .


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

It's certainly not for everyone but with it becoming one of the most common fantasies and desires, it becomes more of how to do it in a healthy way and not just it's bad and won't work. 

It wouldn't work in OPs case but that's not because of anything wrong with it in general. It in a healthy marriage can be wonderful. If he wants to have that kind of marriage he needs to find the right woman for it. It's good he can identify a want, one that is still seen as a little taboo can be hard to reconcile in your own brain let alone share it with your partner. 

I personally think some people would be happier if they could make sexuality less rigid and embraced little more fun and openness but that's just me. 

I'm saddened by couples who don't have a good sex life. Anything they enjoy that is safe and consensual is happy IMO.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

,


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Roughly 21% of couples practice some kind of ethical non-monogamy. 45% wanting to try it. The std rates are no higher in these couples than any other. 

I understand everyone has personal preferences but I'm not sure words like sad or sick are productive. 

One thing I do notice is there is still a slight difference when it's a man wanting to sleep with other women or having a FFM threesome than when it's the woman sleeping with other men and\or having a MFM threesome. 

I think if the genders were reversed in the OP there would be a lot of its not a good idea because he's a cheater but less of that initial feeling of "it's sick and sad" to even think it. 

Which is ironic because this specific form on non-monogamy is often all about celebrating her as a sexual being who enjoys sex and helping her to rid herself of the negative stereotypes that go with that.


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## alm1817 (Aug 11, 2017)

Other than a few mature, thought out responses, the lot of you are ****ing pathetic. Asked for input, I didn't ask for you to pass judgment.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

You asked for input and that's what you got. The others are just telling you what they think. My two-cents worth is that, if you stay with this woman, you are signing up for a lot of heartache.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

These situations never turn out well. All I can say is control the situation or the situation will control you. The former is way better.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

I'm guessing by the OP's response everything went well then 

If he was enjoying life with his wife he wouldn't need to pop into an internet forum many months later and tell folks off.


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

It's not a lifestyle for everyone, but for some people it actually works very well. I know couples who have done it for 20-30 years and still have strong marriages. So I agree with OP in, that most of you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Hotwifing or any other type of open relationship only works if have a strong marriage when you start doing it - it will not save a bad marriage, it will just worsen the problems and kill it faster. A hotwife relationship is based on communication and total honesty, and they both must have the right reasons for wanting to do it, namely to enhance the marital sex life and the marriage as a whole.

OP, I don't think you have the right base for doing it with your wife at the moment. She doesn't understand the game, and she seriously lacks the ability to communicate and be honest about these things. I would advise you to pull the plug on it for now.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

You asked about ethical non-monogamy. This is. It ethical non-monogamy. Non-monogamy is based on trust and a desire to have fun together. Trust is not a component of your decision and it’s not being done to improve the marriage, it’s being done to try to save it


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

alm1817 said:


> Other than a few mature, thought out responses, the lot of you are ****ing pathetic. Asked for input, I didn't ask for you to pass judgment.


Must be one helluvan anger dump for you to go back seven months on.

Actually I'm pretty sure your comment was not directed at me but.... simply go back to post #2...

I stated you opened Pandora's Box. Hey... that stuff is nice to talk about but doing it... different story.

I discussed it with my XW years ago... she admitted it would be kinky but said -I am certain when I would

see you with another woman, I'd be gone- Well... there was my answer. Truth was... I wasn't

wild about it past just tabling it. If it is tried and one does not like it, then stop. That must be discussed

before any action is taken. Read @TaDor thread. We posters are here to help and give advice....

bashing them... won't get you much.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Aim instead of coming back here and giving us an update on how it worked out and prove us wrong you instead just wanted to lash out in a drive by rage...i suspect that things did not go as planned and you are angry at yourself and taking it out on us. sorry for you.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

From what I have read I can say that BOTH parties need to be fine with the path you are walking down.

Don't believe all that crap about nonmonogomous folks having stronger marriages. It really falls on how you process relationships with others. If you are the kind that can handle it and keep a main relationship, then it works. If 2 people are that way, then it works.

If, on the other hand, you are not one of those people or the rules can't be followed, then this is a path of heartache. End it and move on. This is not a judgment, it just is an acknowledgement of significant incompatibility on a fundamental issue. That issue could be anything, but in your case, it is not.

Can you and are you willing to handle the issues. If you have questions, your heart will fight your mind and you will be miserable


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

alm1817 said:


> Other than a few mature, thought out responses, the lot of you are ****ing pathetic. Asked for input, I didn't ask for you to pass judgment.


Projection.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

“I get off on turning my wife out and sulk like a baby when she does stuff without me.

But you guys are pathetic!”

:lol: :rofl:


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

Everyone on this thread is so wigged out about OP and his wife’s sexual relationship that nobody mentions they have THREE (3) children under 12 years old. How are they affected by these “fetishes” and “kinks”?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Chuck71 said:


> When you open Pandora's Box...... this is what you get.
> 
> Why are you allowing this when it obviously upsets you?
> 
> If she gets to sleep with others, do you?


What do you mean by when she sleeps with others. 

She has been sleeping around on him their entire relationship. He has had a ***** of a wife this entire time like he wanted. She just never wanted him in on it. That is why she is vanilla with him and a ***** with all of the guys she has been with. 

Now he is happy that he finally gets to be a part of it. Of course after she goes solo the first 30-40 times that she has already completed.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Do what you want. From what I have read in here and other forums is that this never works without completely being honest with one another. Neither one of you are. You cheated and with your story it is obvious that your wife has been from the start. 

This didn’t start from talking it out and it will end with divorce or just staying together for the sake of the kids.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2018)

There are numerous couples right here on this forum telling y'all for a fact it works great for them. Non-monogamy. 

In response to that first-hand experience we have people saying on this thread they don't know anyone it works for. What that tells you is people will ignore facts right in front of their faces: that their bias is impervious to facts. 

Our sex life is DEFINITELY enhanced by it. Let's have a show of hands here: how many have done their wives six times in a day recently? I did. The next day it was four and the next day 3. All the while I was relating the blow-by-blow (!) with my little 19 year old girlfriend. I'm 59. Lay your cards down gentlemen. That's four aces, all spades. 

My wife met her, which is what we do as a rule. It was an intense experience because the little hottie just could not handle her jealousy over my wife and said some things that really pissed my wife off. Tried to put her down for what is really her major strengths - being such a great wife and mother. To go through a trial like this - wow, what a great adventure for us. We came out stronger on the other side of it and we fired the girlfriend over it. I have a 19 year old temp for the remainder of this stay but I just don't have the same feelings for her I was developing for my girlfriend. She does, however, have a scorching hot little body. My wife has seen her, and she has seen my wife, but we did not have a sit-down because she was not my girlfriend at the time. I pointed her out as a potential replacement, just walking by each other on the street. I drove to her house today, and presto - new girlfriend. My wife LOVES this. Talk about validation. 

All of us are saying the same thing: the conditions are not right in this case. Someone above mentioned written agreements. We have a written agreement too. We have always made them beforehand, with a lot of years working towards it, dipping our toes so to speak with internet chat girls, strippers, and "sporting" girls before taking the plunge into a girlfriend/boyfriend situation.

And with the new girlfriends family too - I pulled out pictures today of the wife and kids for this girl's mom and dad. Then off we went together. She didn't spend the night tonight, but she left some clothes here and she will spend the night tomorrow. Taking it slow for mom and dad, lol. 

It's just amazing what this honesty, trust, and agreement beforehand does, in a set of concentric circles extending outward from yourselves to everyone involved. Likewise, the damage goes out in extended concentric circles to a wide set of people when you don't have this situation.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> It's just amazing what this *honesty, trust, and agreement *beforehand does, in a set of concentric circles extending outward from yourselves to everyone involved. Likewise, the damage goes out in extended concentric circles to a wide set of people* when you don't have this situation*.


 Obviously, he doesn't have "honesty, trust, and agreement" yet you keep going on and on extolling the wonderfulness of non-monogamy. You said yourself they aren't a good candidate, so why do you keep on about how great non-monogamy is? Are you trying to win some argument or just seeking attention? Either way, you are sending the OP mixed signals, and it can't be helping him.


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## GuyFromDK (Feb 28, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Obviously, he doesn't have "honesty, trust, and agreement" yet you keep going on and on extolling the wonderfulness of non-monogamy. You said yourself they aren't a good candidate, so why do you keep on about how great non-monogamy is? Are you trying to win some argument or just seeking attention? Either way, you are sending the OP mixed signals, and it can't be helping him.


He was probably addressing the crowd of people here, who think their way of being married is the only way to be happy, more than the OP. But he didn't forget to point out, that it can't work without honesty, trust and good communication - in fact I see that as the essence of his post.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2018)

GuyFromDK said:


> He was probably addressing the crowd of people here, who think their way of being married is the only way to be happy, more than the OP. But he didn't forget to point out, that it can't work without honesty, trust and good communication - in fact I see that as the essence of his post.


Exactly so, and thank you for your kindness.

I do not begrudge *Ribix Cubed* for his question. And I readily admit to being an attention-seeker like everyone else here. 

You zeroed that attention in on just the point I was making. So thanks again. 

It is curious that OP has checked in again and not gone further with reporting. I am hoping he does.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> Exactly so, and thank you for your kindness.
> 
> I do not begrudge *Ribix Cubed* for his question. And I readily admit to being an attention-seeker like everyone else here.
> 
> ...


 I wasn't attacking you and I apologize if it came off like that. I was just trying to point out the mixed messages you were sending the OP.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I wasn't attacking you and I apologize if it came off like that. I was just trying to point out the mixed messages you were sending the OP.


No offense taken. And I am warmed by the fact we can discuss with genuine kindness and consideration. 

Thank you.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

I do not understand relationships like this......


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