# "Can we start by being friends"



## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Cliff notes of my story: Wife filed for divorce in Jan and moved out in May. Walk away wife. No affairs or violence, just two people who grew apart. Have 8 year old son. At first I tried to plead with her etc like most do and realized I only made things worse. Let her go and only talked when it involved son.

Past Monday she wants to come over and help son with homework. I made dinner. She started putting up laundry and cleaning. THought that was strange. Said she would come over Wed. to hangout. We talked for hours. Only difference this time was I did not bring up any issue from the past, she did but that was fine. I let her talk. She said she couldn't come home because it was too late and she thinks things will go back to how they were before (me not being tentative etc.). I said "I am asking you to find it in your heart to forgive me". NOrmally I just told her to forgive me or that she should forgive me etc. This time I asked her to. I told her how I felt about her and said I was sorry for how I treated her, and I took her for granite. Normally I would defend myself with any issue that was brought up. 

She said she needed time to digest everything. I told her that is fine as I did not want an answer of some sort anyways. About 30 minutes after she left I get a text that says "Can we start by being friends?". Of course I replied back "Sure, I would like that". I'm hoping that is a sign that there may be a small chance. I am not basing my happiness on any certain outcome. I'm going to be happy either way. I know I can't push now and need to still back off and give her space. Or she could of just said that to appease me. I hope not as we have been getting along good. We hugged and cried off and on all night it seems. Thoughts?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

People don't stop caring just because they step away from a room or a house. She cares, and she's showing you that she does, but she's also showing you that she's afraid. 

Every action you take and every word you say will be judged against her idea of what you did in the past. If she realizes that real change has taken place, you stand a great chance of recovering the relationship. She can't forgive you as long as she fears a repeat, at least, not genuinely. (I discuss this in the last section of Forgiveness: Should You?.)


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Do you have primary custody of your son? If so, why not her?

Also, how old is she? What reasons did she give you for leaving?


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> People don't stop caring just because they step away from a room or a house. She cares, and she's showing you that she does, but she's also showing you that she's afraid.
> 
> Every action you take and every word you say will be judged against her idea of what you did in the past. If she realizes that real change has taken place, you stand a great chance of recovering the relationship. She can't forgive you as long as she fears a repeat, at least, not genuinely. (I discuss this in the last section of Forgiveness: Should You?.)


Thanks. Good article. Yes, I am under a huge magnetic scope with everything I say and do. I just have to continue doing what I'm doing and hopefully she will see this. And be patient. She has changes to make too and she had her part in this, but I know I can't mention anything about that.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Do you have primary custody of your son? If so, why not her?
> 
> Also, how old is she? What reasons did she give you for leaving?


we are currently seperated. WE have 50/50 custody that we worked out together. She is 37 years old. Her leaving wasn't a spur of the moment thing. We probably never had a good relationship. Just basic communication issues over the years that pushed us apart.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Thanks. Do you know the changes you need to make in order to get her back (seem like you have a shot here)?


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Thanks. Do you know the changes you need to make in order to get her back (seem like you have a shot here)?


she has always said she was not coming back as she knows I won't stay this way. So I guess her saying can we start as friends might be better than nothing or better than what I heard in the past (it's over, i'm not coming back etc.) Kind of bothers me as she is part of the problem too but I bite my tongue and press on. So I know what I did wrong and what I need to do, just might be too late. She also knows what she did wrong too, she just doesn't need me bringing it up.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

I invited her to dinner and to do homework with our son. She accepted and said she was not going to spend the night. Of course I said that was fine. Just going to be her friend right now and not have any relationship talk etc. We have a mediation next month so eventually I will have to ask her if we can. Put the brakes on that and see what happens. But not now. I need to show her that I can be her friend


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

MSC71 said:


> I'm hoping that is a sign that there may be a small chance. I am not basing my happiness on any certain outcome. I'm going to be happy either way. I know I can't push now and need to still back off and give her space. Or she could of just said that to appease me. I hope not as we have been getting along good. We hugged and cried off and on all night it seems. Thoughts?


Statistically, you have a better than 50/50 chance of getting the result you want. You can increase your chances by using every opportunity to make yourself a better person, growing in your own strength and presenting your soon to be ex wife with an unambiguous vision of your intentions


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

My counsel?

Don't ask her to put the brakes on. 

Run your plan. Don't expect. Just do. Be that guy. The guy you want to be and the one she wants to be with.

Even if you go to mediation ... be firm and be fair. You can look at her and say, "I need you to know that I don't want this."

But refrain from suggesting what she should want. Let her get there herself.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

"She said she couldn't come home because it was too late and she thinks things will go back to how they were before"

"she has always said she was not coming back as she knows I won't stay this way"

" Kind of bothers me as she is part of the problem too"

"She has changes to make too and she had her part in this, but I know I can't mention anything about that."

None of this sounds hopeful. You can't call her on her problems, she doesn't feel that you will change.

She wants to be "friends" because you are going into mediation and she doesn't want you to fight her on the divorce.

You need to continue making a life for yourself and not hope for any reconciliation.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I think you're handling this the right way. You don't want to smother her and you don't want to grovel/beg/please. You need to let her have the freedom to make the choice she wants yet let her know what you want too. Deej is right. Now is not the time to get mopey or push an agenda on her. 

What's that saying "Lovingly let her go" to make the decision she needs to. 

Show her through actions you are committed to being attentive and will not take her for granted.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

I agree with Chris Taylor and see her reaching out to you as a possible negotiating tactic. Time will tell though

Don't always bew available for her and every now and then tell her you can't hang out because you have a date


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Toffer said:


> I agree with Chris Taylor and see her reaching out to you as a possible negotiating tactic. Time will tell though
> 
> Don't always bew available for her and every now and then tell her you can't hang out because you have a date


Sure, there is always that possibility. I'm not putting my happiness on getting back together. Just been focusing on me for a while. She has been in counseling herself after we split. She always said I was the root of all her problems and put her happiness on me. So you would think that once she moved out she would be instantly happy ? 

Regardless, all this started after I asked her to come over so we can talk. I had no idea what I was going to even talk about. If she reached out to me and started being nice all of a sudden I may be more inclined to think it's a tactic. But I won't assume anything at this point.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm not hearing/seeing anything in your posts that makes me suspect she's manipulating to gain some advantage. 

I think you're both on the right track. Though she might have tried laying 100% of the blame at your feet, that is *NEVER* the reality. It always takes two. She may not want to admit it, but she knows that she's half the problem. She may not be ready or able to tell you that... and there's no guarantee that she ever will accept responsibility for her role. But you're handling the matter very well. There will come a time and place for those conversations. You'll know it's the right time when it feels WORSE for you to consider sharing your feelings than it does to hold them in but you're not able to avoid the moment. (If that makes sense... it's awkwardly stated.)

I think that Deejo's offering some wise advice, too. Let the mediation go on unless she puts a stop to it. Don't be a jerk about things, but hold firm and be fair.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

I decided to let the mediation go on. I'm going to continue to focus in me and being nice to her when we do talk. Nothing I say can change her mind. She knows I have changed for the better and she is just waiting for the storm as she calls it. She is a bitter person towards me. I'm not going to ask her go do anything. She has to do that on her own. 

She asked me tonight what I was expecting or wanting out of mediation as she was leaving. I told her I didn't know. She got real pissy as she said I knew but was just not telling her. Then proceeds to bring up similar situations from the past where I didn't tell her things. If I say I don't know, that means I don't f-ing know !!!! So I let her vent. I think it made her mad that I didn't argue with her. Then she left all mad and didn't say bye or anything. Like a kid throwing a tantrum. But I'm good. I'm happy no matter what. So I am going to back way off now. She needs to sort out things In her head. But I will be nice no matter what she says or does.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> I'm not hearing/seeing anything in your posts that makes me suspect she's manipulating to gain some advantage.
> 
> I think you're both on the right track. Though she might have tried laying 100% of the blame at your feet, that is *NEVER* the reality. It always takes two. She may not want to admit it, but she knows that she's half the problem. She may not be ready or able to tell you that... and there's no guarantee that she ever will accept responsibility for her role. But you're handling the matter very well. There will come a time and place for those conversations. You'll know it's the right time when it feels WORSE for you to consider sharing your feelings than it does to hold them in but you're not able to avoid the moment. (If that makes sense... it's awkwardly stated.)
> 
> I think that Deejo's offering some wise advice, too. Let the mediation go on unless she puts a stop to it. Don't be a jerk about things, but hold firm and be fair.


She knows her part. Its not often she admits it. Like i told her, I know what I did and you know what you did. Pointing fingers and reminding each other doesn't help


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

MSC71 said:


> I decided to let the mediation go on. I'm going to continue to focus in me and being nice to her when we do talk. Nothing I say can change her mind. She knows I have changed for the better and she is just waiting for the storm as she calls it. She is a bitter person towards me. I'm not going to ask her go do anything. She has to do that on her own.
> 
> She asked me tonight what I was expecting or wanting out of mediation as she was leaving. I told her I didn't know. She got real pissy as she said I knew but was just not telling her. Then proceeds to bring up similar situations from the past where I didn't tell her things. If I say I don't know, that means I don't f-ing know !!!! So I let her vent. I think it made her mad that I didn't argue with her. Then she left all mad and didn't say bye or anything. Like a kid throwing a tantrum. But I'm good. I'm happy no matter what. So I am going to back way off now. She needs to sort out things In her head. But I will be nice no matter what she says or does.


Well, you've sort of explained here what you want. You have hope to work it out, but then you say you are moving on. I think in reality you didn't want to tell her that you are ready to move on.

Next time you talk to her, tell her what you expect from mediation is an amicable settling of affairs between the two of you (aka moving on) and see how she reacts. She will either be p!ssed that you aren't chasing after her or happy that the split will continue.

But for your own sake, tell her what you think.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> Well, you've sort of explained here what you want. You have hope to work it out, but then you say you are moving on. I think in reality you didn't want to tell her that you are ready to move on.
> 
> Next time you talk to her, tell her what you expect from mediation is an amicable settling of affairs between the two of you (aka moving on) and see how she reacts. She will either be p!ssed that you aren't chasing after her or happy that the split will continue.
> 
> But for your own sake, tell her what you think.



Mediation is all about child support. Everything else we have agreed on She is most likely going to pay me some and she has issues with that. She was in school half of our marriage and has been the primary bread winner. I make decent money too. Her solution to not pay child support is for me to get a 2nd job, sell the house etc etc. So it is a touchy subject as I think it is not about supporting our child but the fact that a woman might pay a man support. That is what bothers her. But I'm going to keep on focusing on me and my son. If she wants to talk or changes her mind, it will have to be her decision. She knows how I feel and what I want. No need to keep repeating the same things over and over


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MSC,
Great post. The best thing about this is your self awareness. I like how you say what you "did" before, and compare it to what you are doing "now". 

Your wifes request was sincere. She does want to be friends. 

The most important thing going forward, is not to keep apologizing for the past. Instead keep doing the "new" you. 

If she says "gosh, it is so nice that you do X, instead of what you used to do which was Y". 

Bad response: I am really sorry that I used to do Y, I know that hurt you (fine to do this once, you already have, maybe twice, but more than that produces a bad result)
Good response: Thank you for noticing that I have changed
Best response: Thank you for helping me learn to be a better partner. 

The thing about that last comment. It has to work both ways. Meaning that your W is not perfect. She doesn't belong on a pedestal. That means you will need to point it out when she does something that you know she would not like, if you did it to her. 




MSC71 said:


> Cliff notes of my story: Wife filed for divorce in Jan and moved out in May. Walk away wife. No affairs or violence, just two people who grew apart. Have 8 year old son. At first I tried to plead with her etc like most do and realized I only made things worse. Let her go and only talked when it involved son.
> 
> Past Monday she wants to come over and help son with homework. I made dinner. She started putting up laundry and cleaning. THought that was strange. Said she would come over Wed. to hangout. We talked for hours. Only difference this time was I did not bring up any issue from the past, she did but that was fine. I let her talk. She said she couldn't come home because it was too late and she thinks things will go back to how they were before (me not being tentative etc.). I said "I am asking you to find it in your heart to forgive me". NOrmally I just told her to forgive me or that she should forgive me etc. This time I asked her to. I told her how I felt about her and said I was sorry for how I treated her, and I took her for granite. Normally I would defend myself with any issue that was brought up.
> 
> She said she needed time to digest everything. I told her that is fine as I did not want an answer of some sort anyways. About 30 minutes after she left I get a text that says "Can we start by being friends?". Of course I replied back "Sure, I would like that". I'm hoping that is a sign that there may be a small chance. I am not basing my happiness on any certain outcome. I'm going to be happy either way. I know I can't push now and need to still back off and give her space. Or she could of just said that to appease me. I hope not as we have been getting along good. We hugged and cried off and on all night it seems. Thoughts?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I like what you did here, staying calm and all. 

If this comes up again, if she asks you again or if she complains about the "incident" you describe below I think it is fair to say:

I am confused. I don't want this. I don't want our marriage to end so I don't understand why you expect me to tell you what I want out of mediation. Since you want this, I guess I need you to tell me what you want. 




MSC71 said:


> I decided to let the mediation go on. I'm going to continue to focus in me and being nice to her when we do talk. Nothing I say can change her mind. She knows I have changed for the better and she is just waiting for the storm as she calls it. She is a bitter person towards me. I'm not going to ask her go do anything. She has to do that on her own.
> 
> She asked me tonight what I was expecting or wanting out of mediation as she was leaving. I told her I didn't know. She got real pissy as she said I knew but was just not telling her. Then proceeds to bring up similar situations from the past where I didn't tell her things. If I say I don't know, that means I don't f-ing know !!!! So I let her vent. I think it made her mad that I didn't argue with her. Then she left all mad and didn't say bye or anything. Like a kid throwing a tantrum. But I'm good. I'm happy no matter what. So I am going to back way off now. She needs to sort out things In her head. But I will be nice no matter what she says or does.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks. She has too much resentment. She cuts me off all the time when we talk. Total lack of respect. I would never take her back just because. There would have to be serious changes on both sides. Personally, I don't care to share with her what I want or expect in mediation. We tried working it out on our own and we couldn't agree on everything. I feel its like showing the other team your playbook in the Super Bowl. Yes I will be kind and considerate to her. But I'm not going to do anything to help her case.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

She asked if she could take son to school this morning. I said sure. When she gets here she sees a dissertation school paper that I am helping someone fix some issues with. Its a word document. And its a females. Just a friends wife. She a jealous wanting to know who's it is etc. I told her its none of her business. She is visibly shaken. But I just don't get why. She left. She said she hopes I find someone that will make me happy, yet gets jealous all the time. And she has never acted jealous before.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> and every now and then tell her you can't hang out because you have a date


DON'T DO THIS....playing games is NOT mature, is NOT the way to reconciliation OR true friendship (even without reconciliation)

...but you seem sharp enough to have figured that out on your own  just a reminder for anyone ELSE reading this thread in the future!

Good Luck


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

1. interrupting
2. never apologizing

These are two things that are a certain path to destroying respect and then the overall marriage. 

The next time she interrupts you, just say "excuse me for a moment" and go "do something that is brief" - "check on something in the fridge to make sure you have what you need for dinner. Take a bathroom break. The classic, "I just realized I need to check something and go in the other room and shut the door for a moment". 

And when you come back, resume what YOU were initially saying. If she interrupts again, just hold up your hand for her to stop and say: Please don't interrupt me. 




MSC71 said:


> Thanks. She has too much resentment. She cuts me off all the time when we talk. Total lack of respect. I would never take her back just because. There would have to be serious changes on both sides. Personally, I don't care to share with her what I want or expect in mediation. We tried working it out on our own and we couldn't agree on everything. I feel its like showing the other team your playbook in the Super Bowl. Yes I will be kind and considerate to her. But I'm not going to do anything to help her case.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> DON'T DO THIS....playing games is NOT mature, is NOT the way to reconciliation OR true friendship (even without reconciliation)
> 
> ...but you seem sharp enough to have figured that out on your own  just a reminder for anyone ELSE reading this thread in the future!
> 
> Good Luck


lol, yeah no games. I hate them anyways. Honesty is the best policy. :smthumbup:


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

MSC71 said:


> She asked if she could take son to school this morning. I said sure. When she gets here she sees a dissertation school paper that I am helping someone fix some issues with. Its a word document. And its a females. Just a friends wife. She a jealous wanting to know who's it is etc. I told her its none of her business. She is visibly shaken. But I just don't get why. She left. She said she hopes I find someone that will make me happy, yet gets jealous all the time. And she has never acted jealous before.


I'm confused too. Sounds like she isn't quite letting you go. Or she realizes that yes, someone else could find you attractive and she's missing out.

Good luck with that.


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## MSC71 (Aug 1, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> I'm confused too. Sounds like she isn't quite letting you go. Or she realizes that yes, someone else could find you attractive and she's missing out.
> 
> Good luck with that.


yep. I dont want you but I don't want anyone else to want you. But she tells me she wants me to find someone to make me happy because she can't. :sleeping:


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Damn you took her for granite? You must have save a fortune on your countertops....(ya I'm lame).

Hope it works out for you dude but "just friends" is never more than that with women.


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