# Getting wife to give blow jobs again?



## nonpoint650

I need some advice on how to approach my wife about giving me blow jobs again.
I love sex, but blow jobs are much better in my opinion. She doesn't give me as much sex as I would like either, but I want to address one problem at a time. She used to be enthusiastic about giving me near daily blow jobs when we first started dating. Things were great. She tells me that I'm just imagining this, but I know my memories are real. Than we moved in together and it lowered to once per week. I didn't think anything of it. We bought a cat and it lowered to once per month when she was on her period. We got married 3 years ago and the last blow job that she has given me, without months of begging and hinting, was the third day of our honeymoon. New I have to hint, beg, and complain for about 6 months before she'll at least do it as 4 play and it only lasts for about 10 seconds. I'm getting really depressed and fed up about it. I've asked and she always has an excuse. I can't sleep tonight because I'm so depressed about this situation. I give her oral as often as she wants and she loves it, but she refuses to reciprocate. I've asked female friends and they tell me to do things that I already do (i.e. help with the cooking, cleaning, give compliments, regular date nights, etc.) I'm out of ideas and I can't sleep tonight because I've been hinting for 7 months with no luck and I really deserved one today. I cleaned the whole apartment, cooked a delicious dinner with no help, washed the dishes, listened to her complain about her job, agreed with her that her boss is stupid, and gave her a massage. All I want is what she at least pretended to like doing before I fell in love. I don't think that is asking to much. I give her nightly massages and foot rubs and she won't take no for an answer. If I don't, than she starts kicking me until I do it. I can't kick her because I'll go to jail. I've tried to bring it up before and it usually leads to us having a fight, so does anyone have any ideas? Maybe some advice on a better way to word my request?


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## Hurra

I'm in the exact same situation. Bjs before marriage but became non existant after marriage. I don't beg though. I have asked 2-3 times in the past year but she refuses. Last one I got was maybe 2007. 

Don't do housework and expect or ask for a bj in return. Doesn't work that way. She should show initiative and do it anyway if she wants to make you feel good. I do my share and then some of housework but expect nothing and get nothing. 

I always give my wife oral when we do have sex which is on a rare occasion itself. I have made up my mind to not do it anymore. 

To me, for a spouse to refuse or ignore your needs and desires is like saying they don't love you anymore. My wife tells me she does all the time but actions speak louder than words.

I'd refuse her foot rubs etc. If she kicks you, go to the couch. Or go do something yourself like a hobby etc.


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## BigLion

I think (guess) something like bj's are not usually a feminine thing to do and your typical womam would not usually do that daily after a while. She probably loved doing it then very much, and probably still loves you the same amount now too.

The issue could be the excitement/dirty factor. When you were first dating it was all exciting and new and she didn't know you as well and could be a bit wilder. To get that back you need to be wilder and rougher and make life more exciting for her. Massaging, cooking, cleaning, talking etc are great things for sure and she will love you for it, but you are not after love you are after the wild sex part of her. So take her out somewhere different and get her to kneel down and do it somewhere dangerous like some secluded dark place at night and get her heart racing again. Then keep the ball rolling after that and do more and more.


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## nonpoint650

For the record, I don't do these nice things to get sex and blowjobs. I would do these things anyways. I just think it would be nice to get rewarded for all that I do. I give her oral even if we're not going to have sex. All she has to do is ask and she knows this. It's only right that she does the same. Besides, I have friends that don't help out at all around the house and claim to still be getting blowjobs. Also, I asked my sister in law for advice on this topic and she was bragging about how many blowjobs she's given her husband this year and that guys a junkie that doesn't work, help out around the house, nor compliment her. My friends are probably lying, but if a woman admits it, than it's probably true. If my sister in law gives blow jobs just about everyday that she doesn't give him sex, than it's only right that I get at least one in the year 2012. I didn't make a commitment to this woman for her to change some of the things that made me fall for her in the first place. (more than just blow jobs)


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## Hicks

Your wife used bj's and sexual satisfaction to get you interested in her while dating and get you to marry her.... She had a reason to be sexual with you and do these things. Now that she "got" you, she no longer has a reason. And by the way, she wasn't blowing you in the past due to your housekeeping and good deeds, so why would this work now? It won't. You have to tap into the original sexual dynamic that you had before marriage... At that time you were the "prize" that she would do anything to keep... You have to be that prize again that she is chasing.


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## Toffer

non,

You need to stop doing the things she likes. That means no more oral for her, no back rubs, nothing.

You should aslo do no more than 1/2 of the cooking, cleaning etc. If she wants to treat you like a roommate and not a lover, do the same to her.

Develop some outside interests and hobies. Call up some old friends and get together to play pool, grab a beer, go fishing or whatever.

How often a month do the two of you have sex anyway?


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## nader

> I give her nightly massages and foot rubs and she won't take no for an answer. If I don't, than she starts kicking me until I do it.


Ok, that's F***ed up, and needs to stop yesterday. You need to level with her here.. no more massages *unless you feel like it, period.* And stand you ground. *You* are in control of whether or not she gets massages, just like *she* decides to give you a bj or not. 

if she kicks you or throws a fit, you leave the house. go get groceries or have a drink somewhere. Stay out as long as you feel like and don't answer her texts until you feel like it. Leave her hanging a bit, and she will have time to reevaluate her behavior. Then come home. Don't melt and get all mushy when she apologizes (she probably will). Let her know you still love her but she can't keep pulling that **** with you. Then go watch TV or hang out in your man zone. If she wants to cuddle, cuddle, but don't talk too much. Repeat this process as many times as needed, and be strong.

If she's treating you like this, you are probably doing too many nice things for her. Get back into some hobby that you've probably sacrificed for her. Hang out with other guys and give both of you a night off.

Some people recommend you stop going down on her, but to me that seems wrong. If you enjoy going down on her, why should you have to stop? That punishes you as much as her. It sounds like massages are your leverage more than the oral reciprocation.

Also, comparing to others only makes you more miserable. *Don't* ever tell your wife that so-and-so is getting BJs all the time. There's no point, and your wife will just come back and tell you that *her* ladyfriends hardly ever do it and their husbands are always grateful, and so and so just got a promotion/built a deck/is taking her to Italy and why can't you be more like them?

I can't imagine talking to my sister in law about this. I really really really don't want to think about how much more or less sex my brother is getting; once I know something like that I can never unknow it. 

A close friend of mine claims that his wife has really stepped up her game in the bj department, and that *not talking about it* made a huge difference for him. I'd say this has helped me to an extent, but it's very hard not to talk about sometimes. But try not to. Make it known that you love getting bjs, it turns you on and makes you feel loved, and it really bothers you that she's stopped doing it especially when you do stuff for her. Then leave it alone for awhile.

I don't think there's any magic solution, but general self improvement and changing your behavior in a way that gets her attention would be better than what you've done so far.

But if she used to do it all the time, there's a good chance you can make it happen again. You might not get the holy grail of daily bjs ever again, but you should at least see some improvement. You just have to be smarter about it.


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## Shaggy

Doing more house work etc won't get her to want to give you bjs. They will reduce her stress and work load, but they won't motivate herto be a gving lover.

The problem is she has decided being a selfish lover is ok, and you've accepted it little by little until it is the status quo. She used to give them because she wanted, because she thought she had to put in effort to win you.

Doing more and more, isn't giving her a reason to work to win you, it's showing her very strongly that's he has won you.

Does seeing her do housework make you want to jump her? No likely, it's just housework, She has the same reaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lamaga

Big Lion, please don't speak for all women!

There is nothing unfeminine about a blow job, it's one of the most loving things I can do for my husband, and it's as important to our daily routine as hugs and kisses.

For the OP, I'd stop hinting and come right out and say something. Show her this post. If it starts a fight, well, then, it's worth fighting about. Tell her that you feel unloved and disrespected, and that if she doesn't care about that, your relationship is in more jeopardy than you knew. Also, I wouldn't be giving her any more oral or foot rubs until she indicates a willingness to at least make a mature compromise on the issue.

Signed, a FEMALE


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## nader

> and it's as important to our *daily* routine as hugs and kisses.


He's a lucky guy then 

And BigLion, who wants to marry a typical woman?


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## Aristotle

I know you love her and probably think her kicking and throwing a fit about you not rubbing her feet is "cute". It probably makes you love her even more.

Listen man, you are going to have to make a stand. Nothing is going to change her without some sort of huge catalyst. I feel like, the lack of intimacy can ruin a relationship the same way finding out your wife is cheating can ruin a relationship. It's serious, so let her know it's serious. You have to create a moment where she understands that it isn't cute or acceptable anymore for her to ignore your needs. Of course, this will make you the "bad" guy because you are making this huge ordeal out of her not giving you a blow job. I can't imagine what she would tell her parents or friends. However, is the good guy thing working? I'd say no. 

Stop giving in to her requests, do you think if she declined a blow job and you started kicking her, this would be okay? Man up.


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## capn_stabby

Same boat here. I firmly believe that you have to make her want it/you again. How you go about that will be different for each girl. Just the other night, I kinda ignored her, was in a bad mood, etc. I went to bed alone and was woken up with the greatest sex I can remember for quite a while. This could eventually end up with a sex life similar to what we had when we first met.

Also, we set up a schedule to lose some extra weight we have gained over the years (and after kids). For every 5 lbs each of us lose, I get a bj and she gets a full body massage...DEAL. So far, she has delivered, as have I. 

Basically, you just have to find out how to make her want you again. Usually, deprivation. As hard as it is, do not take the sex that is given. Make her wait like she makes you wait, and then she will want it even more.


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## donny64

> I cleaned the whole apartment, cooked a delicious dinner with no help, washed the dishes, listened to her complain about her job, agreed with her that her boss is stupid, and gave her a massage. All I want is what she at least pretended to like doing before I fell in love. I don't think that is asking to much. I give her nightly massages and foot rubs and she won't take no for an answer. If I don't, than she starts kicking me until I do it. I can't kick her because I'll go to jail. I've tried to bring it up before and it usually leads to us having a fight, so does anyone have any ideas? Maybe some advice on a better way to word my request?


Yes stop requesting it. And immediately stop thinking that by kissing her azz that she'll come around. Stop caving to her "demands" for massages and foot rubs. 

It is really sad that men AND WOMEN have been duped into believing that if a man "does more" or "treats her better" that she'll respond favorably and gain attraction for you. It is what the women THINK they want, but they are wrong...and as guys so are we for following it. Women want to respect you, be intrigued by you, and feel like you're a catch and they need to work a little to hold on to you. Deep down in the dark recesses of their brains (and we are not really much different), they want this, even if they do not know it or can't admit it themselves. That "tension" builds excitement and desire. And a desire to please.

Now, this is assuming you haven't dropped off your efforts. You SHOULD always be doing things for her and your house and marriage. And if you have dropped off on that, then yes, start pulling your damn share around the house and in the affection and appreciation departments again (and don't ever stop unless she gives you cause to). 

I tried to explain it to my son last night this way: When I've met someone, and throughout the relationship, my level of politeness, giving, chivalry, etc., is always "up here". It is at a constant point with me, and I don't slip out of it after the "honeymoon phase" is over. It is just who I am...from day one. My effort is always high and at a constant. After years I still open all doors for her, still cook for her, still have fantastic manners around her, still talk to her the same and treat her the same as I did on our first days and months of dating. I always do this until she no longer appreciates it or starts taking it for granted. When I see the first signs of that (things like getting snappy, less frequent sex., not focusing on me at all during sex, not helping me maintain our home, being b!tchy or creating drama), I start pulling back in subtle ways (but never on the manners part). Nothing greatly overt, but enough for her to feel a "shift". Enough for her to feel me pulling away. If it continues and she doesn't snap out of it, I pull back more. And I will start doing more for me. It makes me happier, and also creates a little "distance" and good tension. When she starts to feel me pull away, that is typically enough to right the ship. Sometimes it takes some talk along with it, but the "action" of pulling away comes first. If you get in the habit of talking about it, it sounds to her like just so much sniveling and whining, and no woman wants that in a man. If something's bothering me, I will mention it once and make sure I communicate clearly what it is that is upsetting me. If she dismisses that and ignores that, then talking is done and I start acting on my feelings. 

There's a balance to it, and it can be tricky sometimes, but at the end of the day, YOU DO NOT REWARD "BAD BEHAVIOR" ON HER PART by kissing her azz hoping she'll "come around" and see what a great guy you are. You don't want that, and she certainly doesn't want that, even if she tells you (or thinks) she does. You "reward" her good behavior by being the same great guy you've always been. When she stops being the great woman she always was, it is time to pull back and get the tension (good tension) ramped up again. 

I know some will say "you're playing a game". No, I am not. I am doing ONE THING, (I know this sounds corny), and that is staying true to myself. If she is doing something that is upsetting me, I do not act as though everything is all peaches and cream. I do not act out or get overly angry, but I do not act like all is fine, and I CERTAINLY do not treat her better when she's treating me like hell hoping to "buy" her affection through increased efforts (remember, my efforts are always high). She fell in love with me for who I was on our first date, and every day since. I do not need to artificially increase my efforts (all the while being pizzed off and resentful). THAT is not what makes me happy, and it is being on some level dishonest to both her and myself. 

You've got to be the guy she WANTED to give BJ's to at the start. The guy she wasn't quite sure she had wrapped around her finger, and due to that tension she had an extremely high attraction level for you and desire to do things for you to "snag" you and keep you, as well as excite herself. After all, it is exciting and stimulating to have to work to get / keep someone. And if you can give a woman that, she will love your azz to death!


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## Mavash.

This is an easy one you're doing too much and she has no reason to do anything really. The relationship works for her fabulously and she takes you for granted. Time to change that.


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## one_strange_otter

My stbxw used to give bj's sparingly when we were dating and for a while after marriage. Never to completion and only for foreplay. After thirteen years she finally admitted she has never enjoyed doing it. It was always only because she knew I liked it and she hates doing it. And it's all because some douche-bag forced it on her when she was a teenager and didn't let her up until he finished in her mouth. So for her every time she went down on me she was reminded of him. Doesn't matter that I have never forced her to do anything sexual. Never held it over her head. Just accepted that it was the way she is. So, maybe your wife had an issue like that also. Just a thought.


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## lamaga

True, Otter -- and honestly, it's the rare woman who hasn't had some kind of experience like that. As adults, we can choose to process these things and work through them, or we can choose to remain crippled by them.


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## one_strange_otter

lamaga said:


> True, Otter -- and honestly, it's the rare woman who hasn't had some kind of experience like that. As adults, we can choose to process these things and work through them, or we can choose to remain crippled by them.


I tried explaining that for me and most "normal" men (meaning those who aren't coercing their partners or being abusive) sex is love. Blowjobs require a lot of trust from a man to allow a woman to put her teeth around our members and not hurt us. It's also a teriffic way to show love and appreciation. As in "I know I'm on my period and don't want to have intercourse but here's a gift for you to say I still want you." or "you looked so manly out there cutting the grass and trimming the weeds getting all dirty and sweaty I have to show you how much it turned me on". I digress but yeah, something like that. It's sad that she never got help for it and was able to enjoy giving me pleasure because now that I know how she really felt the whole time I feel deep sadness and almost anger that I'd be put anywhere near a category that includes an a$$hole like that.


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## UfuBumb

I'm revolting. I'm dropping anchor, and I don't care. She gave me a "Honey Do" list the other day that includes building her a garden (in 107 degree heat), building us a new bed when I bought a new one less than two years ago, and rebuilding her pond that she tore out because she put a hole in the liner.

At first I was all like, "Oh, hurr dee durr, okay honey." Then I was like, "WTF?! Why should I do anything that makes her happy and fulfills her needs when she refuses to give blowjobs or sex?"

She complains that blowjobs are hard work and she doesn't like doing them. Yeah, my chores suck too, but she don't seem to have a bit of compassion for me. Fixing your computer is hours of tedious, frustrating work. You break it every three days. The plumbing backed up because you let your hair go down the drain? Oh, let me fix that for you! She doesn't seem to mind when I give her four orgasms before we even have sex.

My wife was awesome before we got married. She was always right there by my side helping me with OUR projects. But ever since she met these new friends at school and I lost my job, I've become her house slave. Not anymore. Enough is enough.

The line is drawn HERE.

Women are lopsided, selfish, manipulative creatures by design. It's all happiness and blowjobs until you get married. Once they have you hooked, they start spending more time with their friends, finding reasons to disengage from the family, and always picking fights.

I don't do a damn thing until she does something that makes me happy. I'm not living this form of slavery women have put over on men. We are equals, that means you share the load just as much as I do. I'm not your Prince, your Knight in Shining Armor. I'm a person who has feelings, and you're so cold and callous to it all.

I mean, screw the blowjobs. At least give me a kiss or a massage after I bust my back for you.


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## sandc

I think a blow job is ultimately a very feminine act. The woman is in a very submissive posture providing pleasure with what is arguably one of her more intimate areas. Her mouth is closer to her brain after all. I simply explained to my wife that I missed getting blow jobs. That my d!ck is directly connected to my heart, my d!ck is what connects me to her when we have sex. When she is pleasuring me that way it is a direct connection to my heart and shows me she really loves me. That kind of helped connect the dots for her because she couldn't see why I would need it either.

My wife and I have a pretty strong marriage and we have frequent sex so your mileage may vary. You may even think I'm nuts. Probably am. So what.


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## Kathrynthegreat

UfuBumb said:


> *Humans* are lopsided, selfish, manipulative creatures by design.


Fixed. 

We all have to work to overcome our baser natures.


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## waiwera

Well... I was going to comment, as a woman who has been blowing her man for 25 years and loving it... but your comments were so sexist and ignorant I can't be bothered and I really really can't relate to your wifes attitude...but then..... I'm not married to YOU!

Signed another female.


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## 7737

How do you stop your girl-friend giving you BJ's?......Marry her.

Ufubumb - it seems that your wife doesnt regard sex as important in marriage. For her, what is important is a good bed (to SLEEP in), a nice garden with a lovely water feature etc. You doing that for her shows her you love her, and her asking YOU to do it is her way of showing you she loves you.

Hang on though....If I want my wife to show me she loves me, I want her to have sex with me!! 
If only all wives were like the ones that have posted on the 'Do you love Penis' (or similar!) thread! Their husbands are SO lucky!

I have known my wife 20 years and been married 17.....she has NEVER (ever) gone anywhere near my 'meat and two veg'. She simply refuses and also refuses to talk about it yet enjoys me going down on her (which I've stopped doing...hey, it takes two to tango).

I hope she will atleast once before I die. I'm not optimistic.


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## larry.gray

waiwera said:


> Well... I was going to comment, as a woman who has been blowing her man for 25 years and loving it... but your comments were so sexist and ignorant I can't be bothered and I really really can't relate to your wifes attitude...but then..... I'm not married to YOU!
> 
> Signed another female.


Please don't let one guy run you off.


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## chillymorn

this is one of those areas where it either a deal breaker or not if its a deal breaker comunicate that sex is supost to be fun and about pleasing eachother and her poor attitude about your most prize possssion(your c*ck) is a deal breaker.

if its not and she is indifferent to them then in your in for a lifetime of not getting any.


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## deejov

It's not her... it's you.
I'm a female that LOVES to give BJ's, and I wouldn't go near it in your relationship dynamic that you have described. 

If I kicked a man for not giving me a massage, that means I have no respect for him. You deserve a bj for cooking a fabulous dinner and washing up the dishes? You do view sex as a reward for behavior. That's okay if you do. But realise that it's possible that SHE DOES TOO. And since you feel that way... you should look at your own behavior towards her and ask if she isn't doing the same thing. 

Except as a woman.... she's going to reward manly actions that make her attracted to you, not doing womanly household chores.
She will 'reward' taking her out on dates, being a confident man that she wants to take to bed. 

So yeah, you gotta earn it. And earn her respect. 
Go build something. Fix a car. Do something she cannot do and do it well. Kill a few spiders. Be the man in charge of the household, and be so tired from being the man that she wants to reward you.


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## hubby

I don't want to take this thread OT but I do have a question for the ladies responding here. What if your wife really enjoys giving you a BJ but does not take it to completion? Isn't that the same thing? I think there are the same mental hangups involved. I would think it would be the same process of making sure your desires are known and communicating them the same way you would if you wanted a BJ. For me, I analogize not finishing to me giving her oral but stooping with my mouth/tongue right before she finishes and just using my hand. Granted, there is a lot more fluid involved with a BJ so it would be harder for her to get over that, but for the receiver, I think the importance of finishing is the same...at least that is how I try my wife to step into my shoes.

For my wife, she does not want to do it as she has a hang up on it being literally "dirty." I could imagine she feels almost as if it were as dirty as urine. So for my wife I think it is very much a mental thing, which in some ways is a good spot to be. I think she honestly would really like to do it for me but can not get past the mental block.

In some respects, I feel like I need to put my foot down and make sure she understands how important to me this is and that it is a deal breaker just like giving a BJ is. However, some parts of me think I am being greedy...but is it anymore greedy than asserting your needs for a BJ?


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## J.R.Jefferis

She is obviously spoiled and you need to let her know that. Take away the oral first and see how she reacts. You might be surprised.


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## sinnister

Sometimes it's better to be true to what you believe even if it makes you sound like an ass.

In my experience I've found the BJ tap ran out once she got the the "I do's" over with. And it's a scenario that plays out time and time again all over the world. A lot of women simply stop pleasing their man once they are married. They think they no longer have to perform sexually. And pardon the pun...but it sucks.


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## jman

i'm with the majority, the BJs unfortunately ended with marriage

then I come to this forum and reading some of the good gals comments...become jealous as hell, ugh


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## J.R.Jefferis

I hate to make other people feel jealous but in my case they increased. But it was part of a greater improvement in our overall sex life. It takes effort and I think people don't want to put in the effort and yet they expect to get what they want. It doesn't work that way.

JR


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## EleGirl

deejov said:


> It's not her... it's you.
> I'm a female that LOVES to give BJ's, and I wouldn't go near it in your relationship dynamic that you have described.
> 
> If I kicked a man for not giving me a massage, that means I have no respect for him. You deserve a bj for cooking a fabulous dinner and washing up the dishes? You do view sex as a reward for behavior. That's okay if you do. But realise that it's possible that SHE DOES TOO. And since you feel that way... you should look at your own behavior towards her and ask if she isn't doing the same thing.
> 
> Except as a woman.... she's going to reward manly actions that make her attracted to you, not doing womanly household chores.
> She will 'reward' taking her out on dates, being a confident man that she wants to take to bed.
> 
> So yeah, you gotta earn it. And earn her respect.
> Go build something. Fix a car. Do something she cannot do and do it well. Kill a few spiders. Be the man in charge of the household, and be so tired from being the man that she wants to reward you.


Well this is not necessarily so... it depends on the situation. 

It could be that she needs him to pull his weight around the house. Maybe she has a job and works outside the home as much as he does. So they both have to pitch in around the house.

One of the main reasons I divorced my husband is that I have no respect for him as a man. He has not worked at a job for 10 years. So I gave him the option of doing 1 of 3 things... 1) find a job 2) go to school and get a degree insomething he can get a job in... 3) or work at as hard keeping up our home and yard as I work at my job... 8-12 hours a day.

He chose to play computer games and clean dishes about once a week.

I would have had great respect for him if he had kept the house/yard up, cooked meals dependably, etc. His doing that would have improved the quality of my life 100 fold. 

Of course dates and doing fun things together would need to be part of teh package as well.


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## EleGirl

I don't get refusing to give them... to me they are part of having sex. But to each their own I guess.

There is one thing in the past that did turn me off to giving bj's in a particular relationship. The reason was that it got to the point that it was all the guy wanted. Everything else was lost. Sex has to be about more than bj's.


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## glitchathon

The idea of hinting for BJ's for six months sounds bizarre to me. I cannot imagine hinting to my wife that i want a BJ while doing the dishes. Being polite about sexual acts is sort of a turn off. Not saying you whip it out and push her head down. But why not just say "baby i have been fantasizing all day about you slobbering all over my c****"? Or during sex in the heat of the moment, just tell her to "suck it, baby". My wife responds enthusiastically to that kind of talk. Hinting just doesn't do it. Maybe you have tried this already but if not, try it today and you may be surprised at the results.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## glitchathon

Another idea: get some flavored lube or no-taste lube (Pjur silicone is nice for BJs). Ask for a real nice lubed handjob with some tongue teasing. Wait till you are ready to explode and then have her suck for the finale. This is much nicer on her jaw (BJs are quite tiring) since it is all teasing and only a little sucking. My wife does this for me and oftentimes it is even better than a full BJ to completion as the anticipation is incredibly arousing. Eye contact and dirty talk makes it even better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog

Is there a medical procedure to make your penis taste like money?


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## Ms.Mya

Wow... this must be rare. I've heard of women not wanting to give bj's but not like this. All the women I talk to do it. I see it as a part of sex. There's nothing wrong with it. She's milking you dear. You are giving her everything that she wants and you've spoiled her. I agree with the others... you need to stop and take some of the pampering away until she wonders what is wrong. 
The least she can do is satisfy you. Sex should be mutual not one sided. That's what makes it so fun. Now, I will admit.. if a man is not shaved or clean that's a huge turn off. Just like you guys want the women to be clean and shaved.. it needs to be reciprocated.


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## Sawney Beane

glitchathon said:


> The idea of hinting for BJ's for six months sounds bizarre to me. I cannot imagine hinting to my wife that i want a BJ while doing the dishes. Being polite about sexual acts is sort of a turn off. Not saying you whip it out and push her head down. But why not just say "baby i have been fantasizing all day about you slobbering all over my c****"? Or during sex in the heat of the moment, just tell her to "suck it, baby". My wife responds enthusiastically to that kind of talk. Hinting just doesn't do it. Maybe you have tried this already but if not, try it today and you may be surprised at the results.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His wife might respond enthusiatically too - enthusiastically grab his old boy, and enthusiastically tie a knot in it!


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## 44girlfromthesouth

I don't get turned on by my H doing chores around the house. When he does extra stuff around the house I just feel like he should. I mean, if he has time anyway. We both work outside the home all day and if he gets home before me I see nothing wrong with him taking out the trash or starting supper. It doesn't make me want to run in and give him a BJ tho. But when he is making me feel wanted, feel beautiful, sexy...when he is saying and doing the things that I need to hear that makes me feel like I am desireable....THENNNNN...I want to give back to him what I am feeling. This has been hard for me to get my H to see. "I'd like a BJ" just doesn't put me in the mood. Love on me, kiss on me, get me stirred up and there nothing I wouldn't do for him. Sometimes, even knowing that, he still won't do it but will gripe when he doesn't get the BJ. I'm not saying I have never done it without the "stirring up". I'm just saying he could have it as often as he wanted by just laying an amazing kiss on me.


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## Momman

I have been married 23 years, and while I do give them to my honey occasionally, he knows I don't like it. I have a very small mouth, and he takes a long time to come that way. It also makes my neck hurt. Some of us just don't enjoy giving them, but we do it anyway because our man does. What is really annoying is when someone insinuates that we should just love it, and that it is our fault we don't. The OP said she used to give them. Maybe it is true what someone else said about her doing it to get him, and maybe she really never liked them at all. Still, as I said, I don't like them but I still do it sometimes. Maybe she doesn't really understand how much he wants one, and maybe she would once in a while if she did understand. If not, she might really not care if he is happy about it or not. I hope that is not the case. Good luck.


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## donny64

Momman said:


> I have been married 23 years, and while I do give them to my honey occasionally, he knows I don't like it. I have a very small mouth, and he takes a long time to come that way. It also makes my neck hurt. Some of us just don't enjoy giving them, but we do it anyway because our man does. What is really annoying is when someone insinuates that we should just love it, and that it is our fault we don't. The OP said she used to give them. Maybe it is true what someone else said about her doing it to get him, and maybe she really never liked them at all. Still, as I said, I don't like them but I still do it sometimes. Maybe she doesn't really understand how much he wants one, and maybe she would once in a while if she did understand. If not, she might really not care if he is happy about it or not. I hope that is not the case. Good luck.


You'd like it a lot more if he didn't take so long. Don't take this wrong, but I've had blowjobs that have lasted 10 minutes or more, and blowjobs that have lasted less than 2 minutes. It is very much (not all) in the technique. The other part is he has to believe you want to do it...even if you don't "crave" it per se. 

You want to make your man happy? Practice (on a dildo or something). Read up on techniques. I can tell you that when I met my W she was surely NOT good at it. Because her dumb azzed exH told her she "sucked" at it. Well, when he said that, he never got another. And she never gave another for many years. So, of course, she did not know what she was doing. But I encouraged her. And I loved them because she was enthusiastic about it. And I gently guided her to what I liked. Then she thought about it and tried new things on her own to see how I reacted. And now? I can most of the time not last more than a few minutes with her. She used to say "wow, this is getting easy. This is so much more fun!" And it was nothing more than techniques she thought she'd try and then watched how I responded...as a good lover does. She was in tune to how I reacted. And it paid off for her and I. No more sore jaws. No more numb lips. No more sore neck. She gets enthusiastic on me, goes down on me, and I'm DONE in 3 minutes or less. And oh....so....appreciative!!! And she enjoys my reaction and how great she is at it, if not so much maybe the actual doing of it. Because she can drive me wild like no other could. Pretty powerful and satisfying feeling for a woman...is it not?


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## WorkingOnMe

If you're on your knees and he's standing the angle of your neck is way different than him laying down and you leaned over on top of him. Just saying.


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## DangerousCurves

donny64 said:


> Yes stop requesting it. And immediately stop thinking that by kissing her azz that she'll come around. Stop caving to her "demands" for massages and foot rubs.
> 
> It is really sad that men AND WOMEN have been duped into believing that if a man "does more" or "treats her better" that she'll respond favorably and gain attraction for you. It is what the women THINK they want, but they are wrong...and as guys so are we for following it. Women want to respect you, be intrigued by you, and feel like you're a catch and they need to work a little to hold on to you. Deep down in the dark recesses of their brains (and we are not really much different), they want this, even if they do not know it or can't admit it themselves. That "tension" builds excitement and desire. And a desire to please.
> 
> Now, this is assuming you haven't dropped off your efforts. You SHOULD always be doing things for her and your house and marriage. And if you have dropped off on that, then yes, start pulling your damn share around the house and in the affection and appreciation departments again (and don't ever stop unless she gives you cause to).
> 
> I tried to explain it to my son last night this way: When I've met someone, and throughout the relationship, my level of politeness, giving, chivalry, etc., is always "up here". It is at a constant point with me, and I don't slip out of it after the "honeymoon phase" is over. It is just who I am...from day one. My effort is always high and at a constant. After years I still open all doors for her, still cook for her, still have fantastic manners around her, still talk to her the same and treat her the same as I did on our first days and months of dating. I always do this until she no longer appreciates it or starts taking it for granted. When I see the first signs of that (things like getting snappy, less frequent sex., not focusing on me at all during sex, not helping me maintain our home, being b!tchy or creating drama), I start pulling back in subtle ways (but never on the manners part). Nothing greatly overt, but enough for her to feel a "shift". Enough for her to feel me pulling away. If it continues and she doesn't snap out of it, I pull back more. And I will start doing more for me. It makes me happier, and also creates a little "distance" and good tension. When she starts to feel me pull away, that is typically enough to right the ship. Sometimes it takes some talk along with it, but the "action" of pulling away comes first. If you get in the habit of talking about it, it sounds to her like just so much sniveling and whining, and no woman wants that in a man. If something's bothering me, I will mention it once and make sure I communicate clearly what it is that is upsetting me. If she dismisses that and ignores that, then talking is done and I start acting on my feelings.
> 
> There's a balance to it, and it can be tricky sometimes, but at the end of the day, YOU DO NOT REWARD "BAD BEHAVIOR" ON HER PART by kissing her azz hoping she'll "come around" and see what a great guy you are. You don't want that, and she certainly doesn't want that, even if she tells you (or thinks) she does. You "reward" her good behavior by being the same great guy you've always been. When she stops being the great woman she always was, it is time to pull back and get the tension (good tension) ramped up again.
> 
> I know some will say "you're playing a game". No, I am not. I am doing ONE THING, (I know this sounds corny), and that is staying true to myself. If she is doing something that is upsetting me, I do not act as though everything is all peaches and cream. I do not act out or get overly angry, but I do not act like all is fine, and I CERTAINLY do not treat her better when she's treating me like hell hoping to "buy" her affection through increased efforts (remember, my efforts are always high). She fell in love with me for who I was on our first date, and every day since. I do not need to artificially increase my efforts (all the while being pizzed off and resentful). THAT is not what makes me happy, and it is being on some level dishonest to both her and myself.
> 
> You've got to be the guy she WANTED to give BJ's to at the start. The guy she wasn't quite sure she had wrapped around her finger, and due to that tension she had an extremely high attraction level for you and desire to do things for you to "snag" you and keep you, as well as excite herself. After all, it is exciting and stimulating to have to work to get / keep someone. And if you can give a woman that, she will love your azz to death!


:iagree:


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## waiwera

Ya know...it's amazing how many men here try to blame 'marriage' for their lack of BJ's when all you need to do to debunk this myth is spend 5 mins on TAM reading and you can find many many (LTR) wives that blow...happily. I suppose blaming the lack of BJ's on your idea that 'all women stop giving BJ once married' it lets you off the hook.... no need to try and fix this issue it's the wifes fault...ah.

But instead of throwing your hands in the air and saying "Ah well... that what happens when you get married" (Cause we all know that's BS... it's not marriage....it's YOUR marriage). Why not _really_ look into why your W won't give you a BJ anymore. If she did once there's a reason she doesn't now... honest!

If she has never given you one and thinks they're icky...then she's never going to change IMO.


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## bigtim

When you first meet someone they are willing to do just about anything to get you to notice them, to get you to like them, to excite you and make you happy. But after they've got you, it's seems over time you become part of the furniture and their desire to get your attention, or to please you seems to fade away. I suppose some of this is only natural, but if it becomes a situation where you are totally being taken for granted you're marriage is likely in trouble and blow jobs are just the begining.

Another poster suggested trying to put spice back in your life, by taking nights out as you did while dating. Going back to the place she gave you the first blow job perhaps. Try being more daring or public, anything to recreate the excitement that was once their.

Unfortunatly, doing more for your wife, buttering her up or begging for it is not likely to help your situation. The more I do for her the less respect I get from her. Example being, I've always provided her with a nice car to drive as I don't want her to have a breakdown and I want her to have something presentable. I've always driven junk trucks in order to save money for vacations and such, she's always had the i-phone, gps, cameras and other toys she's wanted, while I again do without. The more she gets, the more she wants and the less respect she has for me. In a burst of being fed-up with junk and after a long {we can't afford a newer truck for me} I said the hell with her and bought myself a very nice {used} truck, added some aftermarket accessories, my own gps and an i-phone for myself. I expected her to come unglued, but at that point I just didn't care anymore, as I was sick of living like this. To my surprise after a couple of days she once again started showing me a little more respect and sex! 

I'm not suggesting seeking other women, but when we've been someplace together and another woman seems to take interest in me, flurting and such, my wife will suddenly snap back into competion mode. My point is, nice guys finish last, guys that wait on women and treat them like gods get stepped on and never get out of the friend zone when they're trying to go out with a woman. You were noticed by your wife because you were a strong, confident man, who she was desperatly trying to attract. You've become the desperate guy, waiting on her hand and foot begging for a reward. 

As another responder said, slowly back off on the housework, cooking, back rubs and oral for her. She will notice. Go to places where other women will notice you and show interest. Make her once again have to compete for your attention and only then go back to helping her out again.


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## WaitForIt...

Ask her to use her tongue on you while you masturbate. This could eliminate any physical neck or jaw discomfort, ease her back into performing full on bjs for you and will somewhat satisfy your longing for them. Plus, it's just hot. There are a lot of women that get turned on by seeing their man touch themselves. Could be a step in the right direction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewHubs

WOW...what a way to bring this thread back from the dead. My wife enjoys giving me BJs but only if I'm standing. She often lay a towel on the floor and have me stand on it and then proceed to perform oral on me. She says its more comfortable for her this way and her jaw won't get tired. I can't complain!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug

Before we got married, my wife would give me a BJ almost every day 7 days per week, no joke!!! She wasn't the greatest at it and at times, it felt like a small bag of rocks, hurt and my penis was raw afterwards. But I never complained and she got better.

Since we got married, BJ's almost stopped to maybe 1x to 2x month, during her time of the month.

I've told her I love oral from her, her tongue, sounds she makes, saliva, etc. and that she's really good. She has over the years got really great at BJ's and I tell her that was awesome and perfect.

I asked her, do you really like giving me BJ's?

She said not really and she doesn't like the taste of my orgasm in her mouth. So I asked her, what can I do to make it much better? She said have her favorite drink (Chocolate Almond Milk) nearby, DONE!!! So immediately after swallowing, she has her fav drink. I also let her have control of the BJ. My hands are no were near her head and she rests her head on my abs or other positions that make her comfortable.

So she gets her fav drink immediately afterwards, has total control and is comfy and I tell her her BJ's are fantastic.


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## LittleBird

nonpoint650 said:


> I need some advice on how to approach my wife about giving me blow jobs again.
> I love sex, but blow jobs are much better in my opinion. She doesn't give me as much sex as I would like either, but I want to address one problem at a time. She used to be enthusiastic about giving me near daily blow jobs when we first started dating. Things were great. She tells me that I'm just imagining this, but I know my memories are real. Than we moved in together and it lowered to once per week. I didn't think anything of it. We bought a cat and it lowered to once per month when she was on her period. We got married 3 years ago and the last blow job that she has given me, without months of begging and hinting, was the third day of our honeymoon. New I have to hint, beg, and complain for about 6 months before she'll at least do it as 4 play and it only lasts for about 10 seconds. I'm getting really depressed and fed up about it. I've asked and she always has an excuse. I can't sleep tonight because I'm so depressed about this situation. I give her oral as often as she wants and she loves it, but she refuses to reciprocate. I've asked female friends and they tell me to do things that I already do (i.e. help with the cooking, cleaning, give compliments, regular date nights, etc.) I'm out of ideas and I can't sleep tonight because I've been hinting for 7 months with no luck and I really deserved one today. I cleaned the whole apartment, cooked a delicious dinner with no help, washed the dishes, listened to her complain about her job, agreed with her that her boss is stupid, and gave her a massage. All I want is what she at least pretended to like doing before I fell in love. I don't think that is asking to much. I give her nightly massages and foot rubs and she won't take no for an answer. If I don't, than she starts kicking me until I do it. I can't kick her because I'll go to jail. I've tried to bring it up before and it usually leads to us having a fight, so does anyone have any ideas? Maybe some advice on a better way to word my request?


Things I observed: 

"I deserved one today....?"

"She doesn't give me sex?" 

That line of thinking is problematic. Sex and sexual favors should NOT be operating on a barter system. Hopefully you didn't mean it how it sounded. 

You are not entitled to a blow job. 

If you have a problem with fair is fair, stop giving her oral. That is well within your rights.

But you aren't entitled to a blow job and you can't make her do it, unless you like the idea of going to prison. Which you clearly stated you did not. 

She probably never liked giving blow jobs in the first place and as the years went on, she lost her enthusiasm. 

It's not the most enjoyable task in the world for many a woman...I have a lot of friends who just think it's plain disgusting. 

You have every right to put your desire on the table but that is about as far as it goes. You can't make her do something she doesn't want to do. However, you can control what YOU do.


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## CuddleBug

nonpoint650 said:


> I need some advice on how to approach my wife about giving me blow jobs again.
> I love sex, but blow jobs are much better in my opinion. She doesn't give me as much sex as I would like either, but I want to address one problem at a time. She used to be enthusiastic about giving me near daily blow jobs when we first started dating. Things were great. She tells me that I'm just imagining this, but I know my memories are real. Than we moved in together and it lowered to once per week. I didn't think anything of it. We bought a cat and it lowered to once per month when she was on her period. We got married 3 years ago and the last blow job that she has given me, without months of begging and hinting, was the third day of our honeymoon. New I have to hint, beg, and complain for about 6 months before she'll at least do it as 4 play and it only lasts for about 10 seconds. I'm getting really depressed and fed up about it. I've asked and she always has an excuse. I can't sleep tonight because I'm so depressed about this situation. I give her oral as often as she wants and she loves it, but she refuses to reciprocate. I've asked female friends and they tell me to do things that I already do (i.e. help with the cooking, cleaning, give compliments, regular date nights, etc.) I'm out of ideas and I can't sleep tonight because I've been hinting for 7 months with no luck and I really deserved one today. I cleaned the whole apartment, cooked a delicious dinner with no help, washed the dishes, listened to her complain about her job, agreed with her that her boss is stupid, and gave her a massage. All I want is what she at least pretended to like doing before I fell in love. I don't think that is asking to much. I give her nightly massages and foot rubs and she won't take no for an answer. If I don't, than she starts kicking me until I do it. I can't kick her because I'll go to jail. I've tried to bring it up before and it usually leads to us having a fight, so does anyone have any ideas? Maybe some advice on a better way to word my request?




How would she feel if you stopped giving her oral orgasms? 

No BJ for you, so no oral for her!!!

You have no issues giving her oral and she loves it. You love her BJ's yet she doesn't want to anymore. Talk about a selfish woman!!!! She's supposed to be taking care of your needs like you do for her.......50 / 50.

You do so much around the house and what does she do?

Ask her directly, what can I do so you will give me BJ's again?

For me, it was her fav drink nearby, my wife has control of the BJ and she is comfortable. This all made the difference.

For a lot of guys including myself, giving oral to our women isn't always the most pleasant thing..........odor...........but we do it anyway because we love our women and want to please them. A BJ is no different.

You give her foot rubs, massages, oral sex, cooking, cleaning, compliments, and does she do any of this for you?

Sounds like she got comfy, spoiled and doesn't do too much if you ask me.......:scratchhead:


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## JustSomeGuyWho

CuddleBug said:


> How would she feel if you stopped giving her oral orgasms?
> 
> No BJ for you, so no oral for her!!!
> 
> You have no issues giving her oral and she loves it. You love her BJ's yet she doesn't want to anymore. Talk about a selfish woman!!!! She's supposed to be taking care of your needs like you do for her.......50 / 50.
> 
> You do so much around the house and what does she do?
> 
> Ask her directly, what can I do so you will give me BJ's again?
> 
> For me, it was her fav drink nearby, my wife has control of the BJ and she is comfortable. This all made the difference.
> 
> For a lot of guys including myself, giving oral to our women isn't always the most pleasant thing..........odor...........
> 
> You give her foot rubs, massages, oral sex, cooking, cleaning, compliments, and does she do any of this for you?
> 
> Sounds like she got comfy and doesn't do too much if you ask me.......:scratchhead:


For me, while a bj is nice, I certainly don't expect it ... if she gets aroused by it then yeah baby .... but if she doesn't like it then I don't need it. In fact, I'm a little uncomfortable with her doing something I KNOW she doesn't enjoy. That is not hot in my mind. I WILL give her oral anytime because not only does it please her but (selfishly) it gets me aroused. Bringing her to orgasm with my tongue and possibly two or three well positioned fingers gets me aroused like nothing else. I do it because I want to ... not because she expects it. For me, the taste and smell is part of it ... in fact, how she smells is something that only bothers her. She loves it and wants me to do it and she knows I love doing it ... but that is different than her expecting me to do it or doing it out of obligation or duty. Anal is something she hates doing although she knows it is something I would really enjoy. Should I expect her to do anal too out of some sort of obligation to me?


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## CuddleBug

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> For me, while a bj is nice, I certainly don't expect it ... if she gets aroused by it then yeah baby .... but if she doesn't like it then I don't need it. In fact, I'm a little uncomfortable with her doing something I KNOW she doesn't enjoy. That is not hot in my mind. I WILL give her oral anytime because not only does it please her but (selfishly) it gets me aroused. Bringing her to orgasm with my tongue and possibly two or three well positioned fingers gets me aroused like nothing else. I do it because I want to ... not because she expects it. For me, the taste and smell is part of it ... in fact, how she smells is something that only bothers her. She loves it and wants me to do it and she knows I love doing it ... but that is different than her expecting me to do it or doing it out of obligation or duty. Anal is something she hates doing although she knows it is something I would really enjoy. Should I expect her to do anal too out of some sort of obligation to me?


She's not obligated to do anal with you but if she really loves you, and you do things for her, she should at least try it. If it turns our she actually likes it, great but if she still hates it, then I wouldn't press the matter.

When you give her oral, it's very enjoyable and there is no pain.

When she gives you a BJ, same thing.

Anal is putting something in there that's not supposed to be in there and it will hurt or be unpleasant for her. Now if she's the adventurous type and willing, she may like it "hit her spot" and there you go.


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## john_lord_b3

CuddleBug said:


> You give her foot rubs, massages, oral sex, cooking, cleaning, compliments, and does she do any of this for you?
> 
> Sounds like she got comfy, spoiled and doesn't do too much if you ask me.......:scratchhead:


I second that *raiseglass*


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## JustSomeGuyWho

CuddleBug said:


> She's not obligated to do anal with you but if she really loves you, and you do things for her, she should at least try it. If it turns our she actually likes it, great but if she still hates it, then I wouldn't press the matter.
> 
> When you give her oral, it's very enjoyable and there is no pain.
> 
> When she gives you a BJ, same thing.
> 
> Anal is putting something in there that's not supposed to be in there and it will hurt or be unpleasant for her. Now if she's the adventurous type and willing, she may like it "hit her spot" and there you go.


I never said she hasn't at least done me the favor of trying anal. She has, several times. No matter how much lube was used or how we worked our way up to it, she does not like it. Part is discomfort, part is the ick factor. I don't mind the ick factor, she does. Some women enjoy it, many don't.

That really wasn't my point. It wasn't about anal ... or even really about a bj. Heck, some ultra conservatives consider any kind of sodomy to be unnatural, anal and oral. My point is that I don't get excited about her doing something she doesn't enjoy. I don't want her to. Oral doesn't gross me out. Selfishly, it arouses me. She really dislikes gagging on my manhood. No, it doesn't cause her pain but she doesn't enjoy it. She has done it, will do it ... but she doesn't like it so I don't expect it. Do I wish she enjoyed it? Absolutely. That would be HOT. Maybe in my younger years when I was all about me and what I got out of the deal ... as I've gotten older, I've switched and am more about the giving than the receiving.


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## Jacob123

nonpoint650 said:


> I need some advice on how to approach my wife about giving me blow jobs again.
> I love sex, but blow jobs are much better in my opinion. She doesn't give me as much sex as I would like either, but I want to address one problem at a time. She used to be enthusiastic about giving me near daily blow jobs when we first started dating. Things were great. She tells me that I'm just imagining this, but I know my memories are real. Than we moved in together and it lowered to once per week. I didn't think anything of it. We bought a cat and it lowered to once per month when she was on her period. We got married 3 years ago and the last blow job that she has given me, without months of begging and hinting, was the third day of our honeymoon. New I have to hint, beg, and complain for about 6 months before she'll at least do it as 4 play and it only lasts for about 10 seconds. I'm getting really depressed and fed up about it. I've asked and she always has an excuse. I can't sleep tonight because I'm so depressed about this situation. I give her oral as often as she wants and she loves it, but she refuses to reciprocate. I've asked female friends and they tell me to do things that I already do (i.e. help with the cooking, cleaning, give compliments, regular date nights, etc.) I'm out of ideas and I can't sleep tonight because I've been hinting for 7 months with no luck and I really deserved one today. I cleaned the whole apartment, cooked a delicious dinner with no help, washed the dishes, listened to her complain about her job, agreed with her that her boss is stupid, and gave her a massage. All I want is what she at least pretended to like doing before I fell in love. I don't think that is asking to much. I give her nightly massages and foot rubs and she won't take no for an answer. If I don't, than she starts kicking me until I do it. I can't kick her because I'll go to jail. I've tried to bring it up before and it usually leads to us having a fight, so does anyone have any ideas? Maybe some advice on a better way to word my request?


Mate, your marriage has lost its spice.You take for granted and assume she is there to serve your needs. Women are not like that, they enjoy being hunted( in a romantic sense), flattered and made to feel important and wanted. Cleaning the house and all those things is good but really you should be doing it anyway and not just sucking upto herTalk to her and find out what is bothering her. I suspect you will find she is probably bored or maybe wants a kid.Never underestimate that one. 
She may also be totally unhappy with her looks and going out with her friends and sharing information about their lives makes her depressed.Once you know what is bugging her then you can become creative and try to solve the problem. Once you have done that then you work out something very creative to surprise her.


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## Woodchuck

Just the opposite for me. Been married 47 years, doubt if I have had 47 BJ's, but more in the past couple of years, and she says she wants to learn to do them better. Walked into her room about a week ago, and said I would really like a blow job...She gave me one to completion,,,Got a little snippy afterwards but I told her to name any sexual favor and I would comply immediately....Returned the favor un solicited a couple of nights ago, and she was a happy camper...

Some girls love to do'em some don't, and I am hoping mine will learn to love them...


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## Wiserforit

Mine's got it down to two minutes. From this morning's little stunt she got the dishes washed, dinner cooked, some notes left in three places around the house, and $150. 

That is sometimes the order of events. Sometimes I did something right beforehand. 

She wasn't good at it in the beginning. Had never given one before. But during monthly periods she wanted to do it, and at the end of pregnancies. So she got pretty good at it and now it is such a trifling effort.

The OP is suffering the old bait and switch. A classic gradual loss of effort. Taking for granted, or else a resentment of some kind. But I hardly think this would be the only symptom. 

It would be good to have a frank talk about it. Not begging. Just an answer to what's going on. If she won't tell you then there is something pretty serious happening with her. If so, Dial one-eight-zero.


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## nader

I'm not really sure what happened (other than I know she is ovulating!!), but I've had at least 3 this week and maybe another one tonight. After going months in between. You just never know what could happen.


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## BeachGuy

Responding to original question....bait and switch. Most of us guys have been victims. I'm sure I'll get blasted for speaking the truth. Goes back to the basics....

"Guys marry girls hoping they won't change and they do and girls marry guys hoping they can change them and they can't.

Natures cruel joke.


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## not_bubba

Hate to tell you, but this is common enough. I have a low drive wife who posed pretty well on courtship in the classic bait and switch. The last blowjob was before marriage 7 years ago. Plus I perform oral every time (she likes it) and long massages to get her in the mood for sex acts that focus on her and she likes (she is not the faking type). Never said she did not like giving blowjobs but never said she liked doing so either. But she is not the type to do much she does not like and will not fake it. Once the marriage contract comes people (men and women no doubt though perhaps in different stereotypical ways) setting into what they want. For me, I could live with the lack of blowjobs but sex is very very infrequent also regardless of what I do and I am not the nagging type and want a willing partner. 

I think these things just get worse and worse or at least they do/did for me. I made the mistake of catering to her too much: I am our earner and she is a stay at home mom (she does well with our son), but I also do most of the housework, all of our family paperwork, rebuild/build our house, all of our maintenance (never hire anyone), .... Plus I did not change much after marriage nor am I out of shape or anything. All was good enough and desirable before marriage and the changes on getting married were dramatic and pronounced. 

My advice to you. Complain firmly but do not nag and give choices. Work to change, or request an open marriage if sex is too infrequent, or divorce if you cannot live with it. People like this do not change easily and it is, unfortunately, mostly considered socially acceptable to torture your guy via sex deprivation. It is not very male to complain and the attitude is always suck it up for the family. So all that works against any pressure for a fix or even reasonable balance based on pre-marriage behaviors.


----------



## I Notice The Details

On occasion, when I get out of the shower and am drying off, I notice my wife watching me. If she is in one of her "feisty" moods, I simply say..."I would LOVE some Stallion kissing right now"....and I drop my towel. 

She has never turned me down yet.


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## BeenThereBefore

house work and being nice, doing nice things for her will never get you a blow job. I have learned that the hard way.


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## thenub

Funny thing. My wife once told me she loves to give me bj's and she hates shopping. Thing is, everyday she comes home with shopping bags and I haven't got a "just because bj in at least 4 years. 
I wish I could tech her to love shopping


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## Decorum

Oh no its a Zombie BJ thread!!!!


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## thenub

If the thread can come back to life. Maybe our wives willingness to BJ's can come back to life too....... Nah, never happen


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## arbitrator

Oblige me, please! What exactly is a blow job?


----------



## alexm

Zombie thread, but still relevant (sadly!)

I've had the same thing happen recently, but instead of it tailing off, I was told how much she hated giving them, and bluntly. Basically, it stopped cold, and it SUCKS (no pun intended).

5 1/2 years together, bj's as part of foreplay 99% of the time. Sometimes to finish sex. Very very rarely on it's own, though.

Thing is, she's damn good at it. Seemed very enthusiastic. I never asked for it, it was just done. Damned if I could tell that she didn't enjoy it. Quite the opposite, in fact. The skill she has and the way in which she did it made me feel as though she wanted to be doing it, each and every time.

Blows my mind (no pun intended, again) how she apparently did this for over 5 years with me, with no hint of dislike, then all of a sudden, she feels the need to tell me how much she hates, and has always hated, doing this (and not just with me, either). She's in her mid-30's, and sexually active since her mid-teens, so a good 20 years of performing oral sex, and now she feels she can finally admit that she absolutely hates it.

So I'm in between a rock and a hard place (3rd time, no pun intended). Her description of how much she dislikes it was so intense that I simply wouldn't feel comfortable having her do it ever again. Now that I know how she feels about it, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it. And that makes me mad.

What makes me even more angry is that she (probably not consciously) made it seem as though she enjoyed it, not just "didn't mind". I went from 100mph to a dead stop, whereas these types of things tend to be a gradual reduction in speed for most couples.

THAT would have been much easier to swallow (no. pun. intended.) than what I got.


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## arbitrator

Alex: I'd be willing to bet the farm that if you stopped "going South" on your better half, that she'd fastly call you in on the carpet(no pun intended) and express her displeasure with that!

It's time that she came to some semblance of realization that oral sex for both sexes is as natural as breathing air, and is for the most part a participatory "quid pro quo!"


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## Plan 9 from OS

alex, how has everything else been with the wife lately? Any updates on that front?


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## Catherine602

Has there been some ongoing conflict in your relationship? Sounds like she might have reached a tipping point of piled up resentment. May I suggest that you don't ask about her dislike but find out about relationship issues. Is she happy and giving in other ways or has that changed too?

I don't see how she could fake it for 5 yrs so something else has to be going on. She make fake other things too. She may do things that she feels she has to do and not what she wants to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm

arbitrator said:


> Alex: I'd be willing to bet the farm that if you stopped "going South" on your better half, that she'd fastly call you in on the carpet(no pun intended) and express her displeasure with that!
> 
> It's time that she came to some semblance of realization that oral sex for both sexes is as natural as breathing air, and is for the most part a participatory "quid pro quo!"


You'd think so, lol! I admit, I don't give my wife much credit in the sex dept., so my initial thought is that she wouldn't even notice. She's also very much the personality type who would figure out VERY quickly why I'm no longer doing that and wouldn't say two words about it, because she'd know exactly WHY I was no longer taking care of her that way. In other words, she'd totally see the point I was making and probably agree with me... sigh.

However, I have made a point of no longer doing that anyway. So far it hasn't worked... I like doing it too much. But I will put my foot down and stop it, on the off chance I'm wrong about it not making a difference. I'll get back to you in 6 months!


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## alexm

Plan 9 from OS said:


> alex, how has everything else been with the wife lately? Any updates on that front?


Better, thanks. Still a long road to travel, though. I did get a HJ a few days ago after some hardcore snuggling (which she likes). Not to be negative, because it happened and all, but she caught me kind of staring off into space and I think that jogged her brain a little. She definitely wasn't thinking about doing this or planning it until then. It was nice and all, but it was clear that she had to make herself think about it first, if you know what I mean.

But it counts, and it's a start.


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## alexm

Catherine602 said:


> Has there been some ongoing conflict in your relationship? Sounds like she might have reached a tipping point of piled up resentment. May I suggest that you don't ask about her dislike but find out about relationship issues. Is she happy and giving in other ways or has that changed too?
> 
> I don't see how she could fake it for 5 yrs so something else has to be going on. She make fake other things too. She may do things that she feels she has to do and not what she wants to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There was no conflict for the first 5 years. We had regular (and very very good) sex until it started to slow down enough for me to mention. That opened the floodgates, and she "admitted" she never thinks about sex, never has, no matter whether it's with me or anybody else. There was talk of asexuality. She told me she always felt weird because all her girlfriends spoke openly about sex, having sex, wanting sex, etc. and she never did, ever. She just had sex because it's what you do with boyfriends.

All the more strange, because she's very good, very orgasmic, knows what she's doing, etc. She enjoys it a LOT when it's happening, it's just getting there that's the issue. She's LD until it happens, then she can't get enough. If you've read any of my other posts, you'll see that she O's multiple times and multiple ways with me (oral, piv, manual, anal, gspot, etc. Every way imaginable). She LIKES sex, but only when it's happening. It's weird. She swears she's always been like this and that it's not at all related to me in any way.

Some 6 months ago, we were discussing something else, and she basically blurts out that she HATES giving oral sex and, I quote "wants to rip it off every time I do it". Again, has nothing to do with me, allegedly. She's always felt this way. I ask her why do it then? Why not just tell me this 6 years ago, I would have lived without (I had already lived without for many many years before her...). I ask her why do this for so long, and for other people before me if she hates it that much? No real response.

I later on gently ask her if she's had a bad experience with it, and she swears up and down that she hasn't. I probed a little bit more, just to see if there's any logical reason to hate it so much, and nothing. She has no answer.

Frankly, I don't believe her. To hate something like that as much as she blurted out that she does says otherwise, that there IS a reason for it. If there is, she's not telling me.


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## thenub

Wow!!! No shopping bags today!!! Maybe just maybe....... Nah. Couldn't be that lucky


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## richardsharpe

Good evening all
BJs are such a strange issue - people feel so strongly about them. My wife knows that I love them, but will do them exactly once a year for my birthday. She doesn't show any obvious signs of being distressed when she does - just only that one time/year.

Is this part of the "never do anything you don't want" idea that is drilled into women? 

I am perfectly happy to do sexual favors - things that I don't much like but that my wife really enjoys. I do them for her - but also for me - its really fun to drive your partner wild in bed.


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## happybuddha

Hey I wish I could get SEX let alone a BJ, I feel like the next time I can have sex with my wife perhaps I should have some serious sex like 2-3 times to make up for all of the sex we missed for 2 months .

She always seems like one time sex and then she goes to sleep and when I go for more than one position she seems to get tired our seems to be uncomfortable...

I wonder if I really give it to her hard for a few times when I get the opportunity if that would be different for her or have her realize how bad I want her ..

Maybe she wants it HARD so she has me wait a long time to see if I will have hard sex with her ...

I suggested we have sex during period , and she laughed saying we dont have sex when shes isnt having her period, but what was funny is because many times i initiate she is tired - or says why dont I go to bed, its too late, she is tired, etc etc..

I dont understand why she was laughing , but I did tell her that I have had sex before in showever or on towel and asked her if she ever did - she said no - I explained that its possible , initially she said maybe you should have sex with that person then ....

I said I was just sharing that there are options and more than likely dont have to use a condom either but -- it is an option


----------



## alexm

happybuddha said:


> Hey I wish I could get SEX let alone a BJ, I feel like the next time I can have sex with my wife perhaps I should have some serious sex like 2-3 times to make up for all of the sex we missed for 2 months .
> 
> She always seems like one time sex and then she goes to sleep and when I go for more than one position she seems to get tired our seems to be uncomfortable...
> 
> I wonder if I really give it to her hard for a few times when I get the opportunity if that would be different for her or have her realize how bad I want her ..
> 
> Maybe she wants it HARD so she has me wait a long time to see if I will have hard sex with her ...
> 
> I suggested we have sex during period , and she laughed saying we dont have sex when shes isnt having her period, but what was funny is because many times i initiate she is tired - or says why dont I go to bed, its too late, she is tired, etc etc..
> 
> I dont understand why she was laughing , but I did tell her that I have had sex before in showever or on towel and asked her if she ever did - she said no - I explained that its possible , initially she said maybe you should have sex with that person then ....
> 
> I said I was just sharing that there are options and more than likely dont have to use a condom either but -- it is an option


It took me years to find out that my wife doesn't like the slow, romantic style in bed. Maybe your wife (as you suggested) is the same.

Mine just didn't communicate this to me, at least verbally. Perhaps there were other hints that I missed...

Try that. Next time you have sex, do it differently. Then talk to her and see if that was more up her alley. Keep changing things if necessary, until you think you've found what she likes.

Often, it can be as simple as that. Not everybody communicates with their spouse, especially about sex. Their likes, dislikes, preferences, etc. If you go long enough doing it one way, sometimes the one spouse just settles into that routine, which becomes less interesting, or downright boring, yet they won't tell you that.

I am lucky that my wife told me "you know, I don't particularly like the soft and slow romantic style..." But it took years for her to say it to me.

And finally, fwiw, marriages can and do last a long time. The likelihood that one or both of you will always want the same thing in bed is low. Part of it is because people change over time and part of it is because you're sleeping with the same damn person over and over (and over and over...).

It's time to spice it up!


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## alexm

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> BJs are such a strange issue - people feel so strongly about them. My wife knows that I love them, but will do them exactly once a year for my birthday. She doesn't show any obvious signs of being distressed when she does - just only that one time/year.
> 
> Is this part of the "never do anything you don't want" idea that is drilled into women?
> 
> I am perfectly happy to do sexual favors - things that I don't much like but that my wife really enjoys. I do them for her - but also for me - its really fun to drive your partner wild in bed.


It's strange, isn't it? It's something I will never, ever understand.

People are always entitled to feel how they do about things, there is no right and wrong. But oral sex (by a man or a woman) is one of those things I just don't "get".

It's odd, because women seem to fall into one of 3 categories about performing oral sex:

- enjoy giving it because it makes them feel in control
- don't mind it, it's just part of sex or foreplay
- absolutely hate it (sometimes with a very good reason, sometimes no reason at all)

Now listen, I totally understand that if a woman has had bad experiences with it. I've heard some stories from other women other than my wife. It IS easy to be made to feel degraded or used. But if you're with somebody different, and you know they're respectful, then why carry over a previous bad experience to this person?

But to me, the giver still has most, if not all, of the power. If her partner is doing something she doesn't like (ie. pushing her head, or thrusting himself into her), that needs to be communicated. If he doesn't listen or care, he's not a good partner to begin with.

But ladies, you have teeth. Don't be afraid to use them if necessary!

Beyond that, if somebody has had a bad experience and now you're with somebody else, it doesn't have to repeat itself. You are in control, as you should be. The man should never be in control during oral sex, unless that's the way you like it. Communicate this to him and make sure he respects this.

My wife hates giving oral sex, and I have no idea why. Allegedly, she does not know why, either. She can't answer that question. (or won't answer that question). And I don't press the issue, I know better.

But I so desperately want to find out why she hates it so much. If there really is no reason, then I just don't understand. If she has a reason (bad experience or something), then frankly, I'm insulted. I've never forced myself into her, pushed her head into me, thrust my hips while she was doing it, tried to finish on her face, etc. Nothing degrading. Quite the opposite. She's 100% in control. In the 5-ish years BJs were part of our foreplay, I only ever sat back and enjoyed it, and told her so as she was doing it, or touched her gently, or otherwise positively encouraged her.

I am not a huge fan of performing oral sex on my wife, or anybody, except for the fact that I am providing pleasure for her. THAT is why I do it. My ex wife got nothing out of oral sex (very sensitive clitoris) so I didn't do it. Fine by me. But my wife now really enjoys it, so I happily do it. And it turns me on that she's turned on. My tongue gets tired, my jaw gets sore, and it doesn't always smell like lavender down there. So what?

It's one sexual act that is almost entirely about the other person. And that's GOOD.

So, ladies, this question has been asked many times here before, but for those of you who hate giving oral: why? This is not a witch hunt, I won't question your response. I'm just curious.


----------



## Wolf1974

arbitrator said:


> Alex: I'd be willing to bet the farm that if you stopped "going South" on your better half, that she'd fastly call you in on the carpet(no pun intended) and express her displeasure with that!
> 
> It's time that she came to some semblance of realization that oral sex for both sexes is as natural as breathing air, and is for the most part a participatory "quid pro quo!"


I agree with you. I see so many threads here" I do this and that but it's not returned "from both genders, but what are you really bargaining with? Complaints? Being depressed? If your SO honestly cared about those things you wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. 

First is needed communication where you plainly and clearly explain that something is missing, wasn't always missing but now is, and that it has to change. Then you have to take things off the table as well. As you say quid pro quo.


----------



## Wolf1974

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> BJs are such a strange issue - people feel so strongly about them. My wife knows that I love them, but will do them exactly once a year for my birthday. She doesn't show any obvious signs of being distressed when she does - just only that one time/year.
> 
> Is this part of the "*never do anything you don't wan*t" idea that is drilled into women?
> 
> I am perfectly happy to do sexual favors - things that I don't much like but that my wife really enjoys. I do them for her - but also for me - its really fun to drive your partner wild in bed.


I tend to think of it more that we teach people how to teach us. If blowjobs are a big deal to a guy, and they are me, I state it up front that I won't go without them. If a woman doesn't like to do them, for any reason, then we aren't a good match period. If they do that during dating and then stop over time what is the consequence for that? For me it would be leaving. 

On going sexual negotiation can be a healthy thing in marriage. But if one person is doing all the work and the other is doing all the enjoying that is a imbalance that needs to be addressed


----------



## Catherine602

Wolf1974 said:


> I tend to think of it more that we teach people how to teach us. If blowjobs are a big deal to a guy, and they are me, I state it up front that I won't go without them. If a woman doesn't like to do them, for any reason, then we aren't a good match period. If they do that during dating and then stop over time what is the consequence for that? For me it would be leaving.
> 
> On going sexual negotiation can be a healthy thing in marriage. *But if one person is doing all the work and the other is doing all the enjoying that is a imbalance that needs to be addressed*


This may describe how the giver feels about bj's. This issue confuses me and I want to understand and answer Alex's question about why.

Sometimes I give a bj as a stand alone act but it has to be when I choose to do so. I know when I will not be frustrated by engaging in a sex act and getting aroused. It depends on how I feel. Being frustrated too frequently is not pleasant. 

We have mutual oral sex, I go first then I give to him. When I'm aroused, I'll do just about anything.  But when I am not, I can't get into a sex act because I think too much and can't focus. 

I don't think it's as simple as feeling love or attraction for a partner. It's simply sexual satisfaction with someone who loves and cares about you. Women feel the same as men sexually but may not express it. I don't think Bj should be such a contentious issue provided that it's assumed that women need sexual satisfaction as much as men. 

Giving a bj cold and as a stand alone act assumes that women don't need sexual satisfaction as much as men. Women conform and give up owning how they really feel. Yet they are expected to pursue and need sexual satisfaction as much as their partner. Very confusing. 

I appreciate that my husband needs sexual satisfaction and I could not receive oral and leave him unsatisfied. He appreciates the same in me. I don't reach arousal the same way he does but I need sexual satisfaction as much as he does. 

Alex - Not all women are the same so this is from one woman's point of view. I find it hard to believe your wife does not enjoy sex. You know her - what could it possibly be? Has she made blanket statement about other things but her behavior not match up?


----------



## alexm

Catherine602 said:


> Alex - Not all women are the same so this is from one woman's point of view. I find it hard to believe your wife does not enjoy sex. You know her - what could it possibly be? Has she made blanket statement about other things but her behavior not match up?


Well, she does. At least the physical aspect of it, that much is clear. Like all LD people, it's about getting her there in the first place. She could just as well live without it, imo, and she's said as much. But when it happens, she's enjoying the benefits from it, there's no doubt in my mind (or hers).

re: BJ's, I could care less if I get a stand alone one. Honestly. Obviously I would love them, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. I'm more of a giver, anyway, so when I've been lucky enough to receive one, I usually want to reciprocate anyway. My wife established very early on that she does not do stand alone sex acts, or at least extremely rarely. Not ideal, but again, fine by me.

The issue I have is that BJs were ALWAYS (always, always, always) part of our sex. Foreplay, during, to finish, whatever. It was as much a part of our sex life as PIV. I never asked her to do it, forced her to do it, encouraged her to do it, nor did I ever take advantage of it, etc. Not once. I just happily accepted and enjoyed, and made sure she knew I enjoyed it.

Then, bang: "I hate doing it, I've always hated doing it".

"Why?"

"I don't know"

"Then why do it for 20+ years?" (other partners, not just me)

"I don't know"

"Did you have a bad experience with it in the past?"

"Nope"

"Is it something I did?"

"Nope"

"Did I ever make you feel like you had to do it?"

"Nope"

"Do you find it degrading?"

"Nope. I can't explain it or tell you why I hate it, I just do. I want to rip it off every time I do it"

(me getting frustrated): "Great, thanks. You sure as hell didn't appear to want to do that. Quite the opposite in fact. I've had bjs where I knew the other person wasn't thrilled about it, or didn't want to be doing it. You didn't show any signs of that AT ALL. In fact, I'd swear you enjoyed it sometimes"


And here we are. Here I am. :scratchhead:

We haven't spoken about that since, and I (obviously) haven't had one since. Now foreplay for me consists of touching my penis for a few minutes.


----------



## Wolf1974

Catherine602 said:


> This may describe how the giver feels about bj's. This issue confuses me and I want to understand and answer Alex's question about why.
> 
> Sometimes I give a bj as a stand alone act but it has to be when I choose to do so. I know when I will not be frustrated by engaging in a sex act and getting aroused. It depends on how I feel. Being frustrated too frequently is not pleasant.
> 
> We have mutual oral sex, I go first then I give to him. When I'm aroused, I'll do just about anything.  But when I am not, I can't get into a sex act because I think too much and can't focus.
> 
> I don't think it's as simple as feeling love or attraction for a partner. It's simply sexual satisfaction with someone who loves and cares about you. Women feel the same as men sexually but may not express it. I don't think Bj should be such a contentious issue provided that it's assumed that women need sexual satisfaction as much as men.
> 
> *Giving a bj cold and as a stand alone act assumes that women don't need sexual satisfaction as much as men.* Women conform and give up owning how they really feel. Yet they are expected to pursue and need sexual satisfaction as much as their partner. Very confusing.
> 
> I appreciate that my husband needs sexual satisfaction and I could not receive oral and leave him unsatisfied. He appreciates the same in me. I don't reach arousal the same way he does but I need sexual satisfaction as much as he does.
> 
> Alex - Not all women are the same so this is from one woman's point of view. I find it hard to believe your wife does not enjoy sex. You know her - what could it possibly be? Has she made blanket statement about other things but her behavior not match up?


:scratchhead: huh how do you figure this? So sometimes I have taken care of my GF without any return and sometimes she has taken care of me. Not always when she has her period. She enjoys it. I enjoy taking care of her. That is a healthy sexual realtionship.


----------



## skype

alexm said:


> "Nope. I can't explain it or tell you why I hate it, I just do. I want to rip it off every time I do it"


That's awful. Does she have issues with certain foods, like uncooked egg whites? Does she have a problem with a gag reflex? Would she prefer spitting to swallowing? It is so unfair of her to not make a genuine effort to identify why she changed so drastically.


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## Cletus

alexm said:


> It's odd, because women seem to fall into one of 3 categories about performing oral sex:
> 
> - enjoy giving it because it makes them feel in control
> - don't mind it, it's just part of sex or foreplay
> - absolutely hate it (sometimes with a very good reason, sometimes no reason at all)


Don't forget (perhaps you weren't) the women who are so repulsed by the idea that they will not even try it, with a previous partner or with their long term spouse.


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## alexm

Cletus said:


> Don't forget (perhaps you weren't) the women who are so repulsed by the idea that they will not even try it, with a previous partner or with their long term spouse.


That sorta fits into the third category. The ones who hate it. But they already know they hate it without ever trying it. Kind of like how I never want to try eating cow tongue or something.

But good point! Maybe they do need a whole other category!


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## alexm

skype said:


> That's awful. Does she have issues with certain foods, like uncooked egg whites? Does she have a problem with a gag reflex? Would she prefer spitting to swallowing? It is so unfair of her to not make a genuine effort to identify why she changed so drastically.


Nope, nope and I don't know (she's always swallowed, and never even remotely appeared to be disgusted by it)

Like I said, I strongly suspect she DOES know why she hates it, it's just not information she wants to share with me.

A lot of things that revolve around sex and intimacy with her are textbook sexual abuse/assault survivor behavior. I've brought it up once with her, very very gently and in a way that would make her feel comfortable and not judged, and nope, absolutely ruled that out.

Thing is, and I'm ashamed to admit this, but I don't believe her. I'm positive there's a reason for how she is in regards to the above (not just the BJs). It may not have been assault/abuse/rape, but there's something she isn't telling me. All I have is my mind to try and make sense of it. Apart from the above mentioned scenarios, I've also considered that perhaps she was a sex worker of some kind, or that she had a boyfriend who was into s&m, or maybe swinging. Something that has triggered latent negative attitudes towards sexuality, or caused shame. Whatever it is - if there IS something - she isn't telling me, and that only makes me more concerned that it's not something I'd want to hear.

This is how ridiculous it's become. I'm thinking of wildly inappropriate (and unlikely) explanations for this. Sigh.


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## Cletus

alexm said:


> That sorta fits into the third category. The ones who hate it. But they already know they hate it without ever trying it. Kind of like how I never want to try eating cow tongue or something.
> 
> But good point! Maybe they do need a whole other category!


I've had cow tongue, and haggis. There are worse things in life - like giving a bj, I suppose.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

alexm said:


> Now foreplay for me consists of touching my penis for a few minutes.



My wife try's to default to this, problem is I simply won't get hard that way. For a while now I've been the one rejecting. It's funny, if given the choice between bad sex, duty sex or none I choose none every time. She's not happy about it but I have a mental block. She touches it and it goes soft unless she uses her mouth.


----------



## Cletus

alexm said:


> Thing is, and I'm ashamed to admit this, but I don't believe her. I'm positive there's a reason for how she is in regards to the above (not just the BJs). It may not have been assault/abuse/rape, but there's something she isn't telling me.


I'm in the opposite camp. The first thing everyone suspects is abuse when they hear about my wife, but she too flatly rejects it and I have no reason to doubt her. She lives at one end of the vanilla sexuality continuum, and I live somewhere closer to the other.

Occam's razor applies here too.


----------



## alexm

Cletus said:


> I'm in the opposite camp. The first thing everyone suspects is abuse when they hear about my wife, but she too flatly rejects it and I have no reason to doubt her. She lives at one end of the vanilla sexuality continuum, and I live somewhere closer to the other.
> 
> Occam's razor applies here too.


Glad to hear it. In fact, it's kind of a relief.

But honestly, my wife is textbook - which I agree doesn't mean squat IRL. The old adage "If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then it must be a duck" isn't always true. Could be a guy in a duck costume. Or a platypus.

Regardless, if she's keeping something from me, that's her prerogative (and her right, I guess). I try not to think of it, but we always want answers, don't we? Especially to the question "why?"


----------



## Cletus

alexm said:


> Regardless, if she's keeping something from me, that's her prerogative (and her right, I guess). I try not to think of it, but we always want answers, don't we? Especially to the question "why?"


We sure do. The hard part is accepting when the answer is "just 'cause".


----------



## Catherine602

Does she have any new friends that might influence her? Hate to ask this and I don't mean to insult your wife but you have to consider the outside chance that there might be another man.


----------



## Happilymarried25

I'm in a 4th category, I don't mind it, would be fine without, doesn't do anything for me it but I do it because my husband enjoys it and I like making him happy. 

I think a lot of women are in that category


----------



## U.E. McGill

nonpoint650 said:


> I need some advice on how to approach my wife about giving me blow jobs again.
> 
> I love sex, but blow jobs are much better in my opinion. She doesn't give me as much sex as I would like either, but I want to address one problem at a time. She used to be enthusiastic about giving me near daily blow jobs when we first started dating. Things were great. She tells me that I'm just imagining this, but I know my memories are real. Than we moved in together and it lowered to once per week. I didn't think anything of it. We bought a cat and it lowered to once per month when she was on her period. We got married 3 years ago and the last blow job that she has given me, without months of begging and hinting, was the third day of our honeymoon. New I have to hint, beg, and complain for about 6 months before she'll at least do it as 4 play and it only lasts for about 10 seconds. I'm getting really depressed and fed up about it. I've asked and she always has an excuse. I can't sleep tonight because I'm so depressed about this situation. I give her oral as often as she wants and she loves it, but she refuses to reciprocate. I've asked female friends and they tell me to do things that I already do (i.e. help with the cooking, cleaning, give compliments, regular date nights, etc.) I'm out of ideas and I can't sleep tonight because I've been hinting for 7 months with no luck and I really deserved one today. I cleaned the whole apartment, cooked a delicious dinner with no help, washed the dishes, listened to her complain about her job, agreed with her that her boss is stupid, and gave her a massage. All I want is what she at least pretended to like doing before I fell in love. I don't think that is asking to much. I give her nightly massages and foot rubs and she won't take no for an answer. If I don't, than she starts kicking me until I do it. I can't kick her because I'll go to jail. I've tried to bring it up before and it usually leads to us having a fight, so does anyone have any ideas? Maybe some advice on a better way to word my request?



I didn't read all the other posts but I bet money no one will tell you what I'm going to. 

Tell your wife "I know you're not cool with oral. I can't force you to blow me. Or negotiate attraction. So just tell me you're not going to SO I CAN FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO. I'll keep it discreet. "

Seriously you asked a woman how to build attraction? You don't ask a fish how to catch fish. Quit talking to women about this crap. 

You need to build dread in your wife. Go to the gym. Get fit. Flirt with other women IN FRONT OF HER. Quit whining like a little boy to mommy for some desert. You need to raise your sexual value relative to your wife like when you first started dating. Beta (cleaning, laundry helping) does not cause 'gina tingles. Being a leader, fit and dominant does. Alpha. 

Fix these things and she may blow you like she did when you first started dating. If not her someone will.


----------



## Buddy400

Catherine602 said:


> Giving a bj cold and as a stand alone act assumes that women don't need sexual satisfaction as much as men.


That's such a twisted way of looking at it.

What it means to me is that my wife loves me so much that she will give me pleasure even if there's nothing in it for her. That's love.

As for me, I would immediately drop everything and go down on her in a second, anywhere, anytime with no expectations of anything in return if she asked (she has, but not often enough  ). An opportunity to please my wife? I'll take ALL of those opportunities, thank you.


----------



## Catherine602

Buddy400 said:


> That's such a twisted way of looking at it.
> 
> What it means to me is that my wife loves me so much that she will give me pleasure even if there's nothing in it for her. That's love.
> 
> As for me, I would immediately drop everything and go down on her in a second, anywhere, anytime with no expectations of anything in return if she asked (she has, but not often enough  ). An opportunity to please my wife? I'll take ALL of those opportunities, thank you.


What have I said that provoked such an insulting response? I expressed what I thought and I respect what you wrote. Unthreatening dialogues helps me to understand. 

I've learned a lot from men who are willing to discuss things without rancor. That's what I am here for, not to make people angry. Frankly this is hurtful. I did not mean to insult anyone. I just expressed what I think. I thought that we were all free to do that.


----------



## anonmd

This is somewhat theoretical since my wife never asks for a standalone act but I will give my male point of view. If asked I would provide, the act of providing for a lengthy amount of time vs. Just a few minutes is not a turn on, in fact my erection will go away as I really concentrate on her. That is perfectly fine by me, getting her really going is the reward. Then there is the interesting point where she "demands" I jam it in but it ain't ready. Fortunately I can usually rise to the occasion pretty quick once I switch mental gears. 

So, I'd happily provide standalone. Her reaction would give me great pleasure but not necessarily turn me on in the moment. If she was then "done" and didn't want any more for the session I'd be ok with that. Not for a string of multiple times in a row but once in a while, that'd be fine:smthumbup: 





Catherine602 said:


> Sometimes I give a bj as a stand alone act but it has to be when I choose to do so. I know when I will not be frustrated by engaging in a sex act and getting aroused. It depends on how I feel. Being frustrated too frequently is not pleasant.
> 
> We have mutual oral sex, I go first then I give to him. When I'm aroused, I'll do just about anything.  But when I am not, I can't get into a sex act because I think too much and can't focus.
> 
> I don't think it's as simple as feeling love or attraction for a partner. It's simply sexual satisfaction with someone who loves and cares about you. Women feel the same as men sexually but may not express it. I don't think Bj should be such a contentious issue provided that it's assumed that women need sexual satisfaction as much as men.
> 
> Giving a bj cold and as a stand alone act assumes that women don't need sexual satisfaction as much as men. Women conform and give up owning how they really feel. Yet they are expected to pursue and need sexual satisfaction as much as their partner. Very confusing.
> 
> I appreciate that my husband needs sexual satisfaction and I could not receive oral and leave him unsatisfied. He appreciates the same in me. I don't reach arousal the same way he does but I need sexual satisfaction as much as he does.
> ?


----------



## samyeagar

Buddy400 said:


> That's such a twisted way of looking at it.
> 
> What it means to me is that my wife loves me so much that she will give me pleasure even if there's nothing in it for her. That's love.
> 
> As for me, I would immediately drop everything and go down on her in a second, anywhere, anytime with no expectations of anything in return if she asked (she has, but not often enough  ). An opportunity to please my wife? I'll take ALL of those opportunities, thank you.





Catherine602 said:


> What have I said that proked such an insulting response? I expressed what I thought and I respect what you wrote. Unthreatening dialogues helps me to understand.
> 
> I've learned a lot from men who are willing to discuss things without rancor. That's what I am here for, not to make people angry. Frankly this is hurtful. I did not mean to insult anyone. I just expressed what I think. I thought that we were all free to do that.


I think a different way of putting what Buddy said is that your assumption is incredibly flawed to the point of being false. I just don't see how you can make such a stretch that a stand alone bj assumes that women don't need sexual satisfaction as much as men. The implication in such an assumption is very negative towards any man who would accept one.


----------



## alexm

anonmd said:


> This is somewhat theoretical since my wife never asks for a standalone act but I will give my male point of view. If asked I would provide, the act of providing for a lengthy amount of time vs. Just a few minutes is not a turn on, in fact my erection will go away as I really concentrate on her. That is perfectly fine by me, getting her really going is the reward. Then there is the interesting point where she "demands" I jam it in but it ain't ready. Fortunately I can usually rise to the occasion pretty quick once I switch mental gears.
> 
> So, I'd happily provide standalone. Her reaction would give me great pleasure but not necessarily turn me on in the moment. If she was then "done" and didn't want any more for the session I'd be ok with that. Not for a string of multiple times in a row but once in a while, that'd be fine:smthumbup:


This is the great irony of this all, isn't it?

I am the same way - if my wife would ever ask me for a stand alone act, I'd jump right in. She never has. However, I have simply done it on occasion. Perhaps she was expecting more, I don't know. She's never appeared upset that I went down on her, got her off, and that's it.

Anyway, the ironic part that I'm seeing here is that many men are very very willing to do this for our partners, whereas many women are NOT willing to do this for our partners. Mine won't, at least not reluctantly. And as we all know, that's not much fun for either person. And I'm not just talking about oral.

It just confuses me all to hell, and I simply don't get it. Whether you're a man or a woman - why on earth would you not want to please your partner, sometimes with nothing sexual in return? Why does the return have to be sexual? Is making your partner happy a couple of times a month so GD hard?

I do things every day that I don't want to be doing (laundry, mow the lawn, mop the floors). There's a goal at the end of each and every thing I do, and even if I HATE doing it, it gets done, and I feel good that it's been done. But those are chores, it's work. When did sex become a chore? Seriously. WHY would sex become a chore?

In the case of my wife, she enjoys sex, has multiple orgasms, the whole 9 yards. But she has about as much desire to get to that point as I do getting to the mountain of laundry.

At what point in human history did people get so confused and broken about sexuality? Because that's exactly what's happened. When did it become a chore? Something to be anxious about? Something that has to be planned and scheduled? Why do two people who love each other and are committed through marriage have to f'ing plan and negotiate and fight about sex?

Where did humanity go wrong when it comes to this? It's the most GD natural thing two human beings can do, yet we've changed it into something so unbelievably complex. ESPECIALLY in marriage.


----------



## Buddy400

Catherine602 said:


> What have I said that proked such an insulting response? I expressed what I thought and I respect what you wrote. Unthreatening dialogues helps me to understand.
> 
> I've learned a lot from men who are willing to discuss things without rancor. That's what I am here for, not to make people angry. Frankly this is hurtful. I did not mean to insult anyone. I just expressed what I think. I thought that we were all free to do that.


My apologies. I in no way intended that as an insulting response. I guess the "twisted" comment is what you found disturbing. Perhaps a better way to put that would have been "convoluted, odd, hard to understand"?


----------



## Abc123wife

samyeagar said:


> I think a different way of putting what Buddy said is that your assumption is incredibly flawed to the point of being false. I just don't see how you can make such a stretch that a stand alone bj assumes that women don't need sexual satisfaction as much as men. The implication in such an assumption is very negative towards any man who would accept one.


I don't understand why you say Catherines's post is flawed and false. The fact is that many men (not all and maybe not you ever) have had stand alone BJs at one point or another and some quite frequently without thinking twice about it. The vast majority of women have never had stand alone oral and would find it hard to just be done and roll over and go to sleep without feeling the want or need to satisfy her partner afterwards. I am pretty sure there was a thread a while ago discussing this very topic. With that in mind, why is what Catherine said so false or insulting to men?


----------



## Cletus

U.E. McGill said:


> Fix these things and she may blow you like she did when you first started dating. If not her someone will.


Hell, he if he gets all Neanderthal Alpha like that, I might blow him. But only if he drags me back to his cave by my hair.


----------



## samyeagar

Abc123wife said:


> I don't understand why you say Catherines's post is flawed and false. The fact is that many men (not all and maybe not you ever) have had stand alone BJs at one point or another and some quite frequently without thinking twice about it. The vast majority of women have never had stand alone oral and *would find it hard to just be done and roll over and go to sleep without feeling the want or need to satisfy her partner afterwards*. I am pretty sure there was a thread a while ago discussing this very topic. With that in mind, why is what Catherine said so false or insulting to men?


And I submit that this is exactly how the majority of men feel as well.

Her own words stated that the mere act of a stand alone bj translates directly to mean that a woman's sexual satisfaction is at best secondary, when one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I have had a couple of stand alone, no strings attached bj's from my wife, and you know what? While they were good, they made me feel uncomfortable, and I think part of it is the shaming of accepting anything like that makes a man selfish, uncaring. The kicker here is, that when I expressed how I felt like that, my wife felt hurt that I was uncomfortable accepting that from her as a show of her love for me.

It is extremely insulting to most men to suggest that a woman's pleasure is of no consequence to him.


----------



## 1812overture

alexm said:


> if she's keeping something from me, that's her prerogative (and her right, I guess). I try not to think of it, but we always want answers, don't we? Especially to the question "why?"


Sure, it is her prerogative. And you haven't used the term "bait and switch" which wouldn't really apply here, anyway. She doesn't owe you a BJ or an explanation.

But does she agree that it is sort of harmful to the relationship? It would be troublesome if she suddenly decided she never again wanted to go to that restaurant where you proposed, never again wanted to watch that TV show you watched religiously on Thursdays, never again wanted to see the Christmas windows, etc. 

It was an important part of your relationship, and now it's gone. With no explanation. 

Had I paid attention years ago, I may have noticed that it was the beginning of the end. I hope this doesn't happen for you, but the Bjs stopped, sex became less frequent, then rare, now non-existent. I have to believe the root cause is all those years ago, and that makes it very difficult to address.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening ABC123wife
I think in this, as in so many things discussed here, people tend to base their opinions on their own experience. This is completely reasonable but can lead to a distorted view of what other posters are talking about. 

In my case (and this doesn't apply to anyone else)

I've never had a stand-alone BJ. Its always been part of other lovemaking - and is very rare -usually <<1/year. Over the last few years my wife has been giving me a BJ to completion for my birthday. This still part of a lovemaking session (I take care of her afterwards) but it is the focus of that evening.

I have let my wife know on several occasions that I am happy to do nice things for her, including oral, even if she is too tired to reciprocate. In 25 years she has only asked once. She does frequently ask for, and get massages. 

Giving her oral is a standard part of our lovemaking - she prefers it as a warm-up, not to finish that way, but I'm happy to do it for as long as she likes.

My wife says she doesn't like giving BJs, but when doing them she doesn't show any obvious signs of distress. She'll wash her mouth out afterwards, but then we get back to doing other things. 


Other people's experiences are very different. With a long-ago girlfriend, BJs were a normal part of a lovemaking session - along with a wide variety of other activities - but she actively enjoyed giving BJs.






Abc123wife said:


> I don't understand why you say Catherines's post is flawed and false. The fact is that many men (not all and maybe not you ever) have had stand alone BJs at one point or another and some quite frequently without thinking twice about it. The vast majority of women have never had stand alone oral and would find it hard to just be done and roll over and go to sleep without feeling the want or need to satisfy her partner afterwards. I am pretty sure there was a thread a while ago discussing this very topic. With that in mind, why is what Catherine said so false or insulting to men?


----------



## thenub

Wow! I was reading into this thread wrong!!!! I thought it was just stand alone bj's. My bad. During regular lovemaking I alway do oral for my wife and she has never said no to doing the same for me. Sometimes she'll take it to completion and then keep going just to make sure I stay hard. 
I remember one night several years back where I actually have to get her to stop. She wanted to how many times she could make me cum. I almost came three times. There were little breaks where she would rest her jaw while I did oral on her but then she went right back at it.
I must be very lucky.
I think for ****s and giggles I'll ask for a stand alone bj later and see how that goes. Wish me luck.


----------



## AlphaProvider

Tell her if you don't someone else will.


----------



## richardsharpe

why would we wish you luck... it sounds like you have way more than your share already...

OK, good luck.




thenub said:


> Wow! I was reading into this thread wrong!!!! I thought it was just stand alone bj's. My bad. During regular lovemaking I alway do oral for my wife and she has never said no to doing the same for me. Sometimes she'll take it to completion and then keep going just to make sure I stay hard.
> I remember one night several years back where I actually have to get her to stop. She wanted to how many times she could make me cum. I almost came three times. There were little breaks where she would rest her jaw while I did oral on her but then she went right back at it.
> I must be very lucky.
> I think for ****s and giggles I'll ask for a stand alone bj later and see how that goes. Wish me luck.


----------



## Catherine602

I understand Buddy I took your post the wrong way.


----------



## thenub

Well things didn't go quite as expected tonight. She practically dragged me into the bedroom as I had told her I was going to get checked for possible ED.(appointment is booked for full type 2 diabetes bloodwork, testosterone and hormone levels). We started out with some hot foreplay and then she said she'd take care of the ED. 
Needless to say it was amazing, the things she started doing with her tongue. She went down for about 15 minutes bringing me to the edge a few times. When she finally came back up she said she sees no reason to worry.

I asked if I could return the favour. She couldn't push my head down fast enough. So, for the hell of it I asked her, when she got home tomorrow, what she would think if I pulled her pants off and went down for 15 minutes got up and walked away. Her answer was quick and to the point. It better not be a one time thing. Hell


----------



## thenub

Oops hit send by accident. 
I said he'll no, but be careful what you wish for.


----------



## arbitrator

I just love happy endings!


----------



## notmyrealname4

alexm said:


> It's odd, because women seem to fall into one of 3 categories about performing oral sex:
> 
> - enjoy giving it *because it makes them feel in control*
> - don't mind it, it's just part of sex or foreplay
> - absolutely hate it (sometimes with a very good reason, sometimes no reason at all)


There's a fourth reason, alexm:

- loves the guys body and enjoys making him happy


I don't understand why there's a "because it makes them feel in control" part in your description, that's all.

I understand that's your perception. I think that's a bit sad.

When my husband goes down on me, I never get the feeling he's enjoying it because he's, "in control".

Do you enjoy going down on your wife, because it makes you feel like you are "in control"?

I'm seriously asking. This is a different way of looking at it for me, and I wonder how common it is for other people.


----------



## alexm

*Not entirely sure if this reply is to me (there's a lot of similar posts in this one) But:*



1812overture said:


> Sure, it is her prerogative. And you haven't used the term "bait and switch" which wouldn't really apply here, anyway. She doesn't owe you a BJ or an explanation.
> 
> *I've used that term here before, yes. And it's actually very apt. I've even brought it up to her, and she hasn't disagreed, nor did she get defensive. Thing is, she didn't know what the term meant, nor did she do it on purpose - which I believe. But when I called her out on doing just that, she seemed to realize that's exactly what happened.
> 
> Does it matter that she bait and switched me without being conscious of doing it? Not really. But at the same time, at least I can hold some comfort in knowing that it wasn't a pre-meditated thing. It wasn't "on purpose", designed to hook me, reel me in, and trap me. The way she put it was that "this is what you do, make your partner happy", etc. Then why not keep it going for the next 30, 40, 50 years? I don't know, and neither does she. I do know she regrets telling me these things, and that she f'd up huge by doing so.*
> 
> But does she agree that it is sort of harmful to the relationship? It would be troublesome if she suddenly decided she never again wanted to go to that restaurant where you proposed, never again wanted to watch that TV show you watched religiously on Thursdays, never again wanted to see the Christmas windows, etc.
> 
> *She sure does. She didn't realize the impact telling me this would have. She does now.*
> 
> It was an important part of your relationship, and now it's gone. With no explanation.
> 
> Had I paid attention years ago, I may have noticed that it was the beginning of the end. I hope this doesn't happen for you, but the Bjs stopped, sex became less frequent, then rare, now non-existent. I have to believe the root cause is all those years ago, and that makes it very difficult to address.


*That's the thing, other than frequency of sex, nothing changed. (frequency changed because we didn't live together for the first 3 years, therefore there were no kids around a lot of the time). The change in frequency was understandable and justified, and it's not like it went from 5 times a week to 3 times a month. Even at its peak, it was 2, 3 times a week, tops. Now down to 1, sometimes 2, rarely 3. Not a highly noticeable "red flag" type of difference.

The oral sex was always just part of our sex (never stand alone). I never took it for granted, mind you, but it was as much a part of our sex life as PIV was. And yes, I ALWAYS do the same for her, and always have.

The first time we had sex, some 6 years ago, that was the first thing she did. We kissed passionately, walked up to the bedroom, and she took my pants off before we even hit the bed, and she went to town while I was still standing. She was the first person I slept with after 14 year long relationship/marriage, in which I didn't receive oral sex for the last 6-7 years (ex wife had jaw issues, whatever...) I kid you not, oral sex wasn't even on my radar as I was walking upstairs to the bedroom with my now wife. It surprised me.

And then, every single time since then. Every single time. It was foreplay. Sometimes it was to finish. I never - NEVER - pulled her head towards my groin. Never pulled out my junk and put it in her face. She, always she, went there on her own.

In the 6 years we've been together, I asked her exactly twice for it. The first time, she did it. The second time, she took offense. I never asked her again.

I don't get it, and honestly, she doesn't either. I've never been anything less than respectful towards her in all aspects of our sex life, never mind this. I've never expected it, never took it for granted, never pushed her towards doing it, never grabbed the back of her head, etc. She just did it, was damn good at it, swallowed, never complained, never appeared to dislike it. Never.

So to hear, quite literally out of the blue, that she HATES it with an undying passion completely f'd me up. She can't even explain it. I've asked her, very nicely, what it is about it that she hates. She doesn't know. Did anything happen in the past? Does it taste bad/smell funny? Does it hurt your jaw?

She has no answer. None. :scratchhead:*


----------



## Wolf1974

intheory said:


> There's a fourth reason, alexm:
> 
> - loves the guys body and enjoys making him happy
> 
> 
> I don't understand why there's a "because it makes them feel in control" part in your description, that's all.
> 
> I understand that's your perception. I think that's a bit sad.
> 
> When my husband goes down on me, I never get the feeling he's enjoying it because he's, "in control".
> 
> Do you enjoy going down on your wife, because it makes you feel like you are "in control"?
> 
> I'm seriously asking. This is a different way of looking at it for me, and I wonder how common it is for other people.


I think he could mean that some women might use this a treat or reward and from that gain power. Like you do this for me I will do this for you. I have heard of these these on TaM but on really experienced it only once with a Gf were she used sex as a bargaining tool to get what she wanted.

This is really sad on two fronts

One someone has taught that woman that her only real value is sex. If you're with a man who only sees your value as sex you are either with the wrong man or not bringing enough to the table.

Second it exchanges something personal and intimate for something often times of materialistic value. Those are called prostitutues by any other definition but somehow in relationships where this occurs it's is ok?

Why I cringe when I hear some women her speak of how they are using sex and a manipulation tool to get thier husbands to do x,y,z. This method doesn't fix the marriage problem and second it only makes you have the value of a sexual object in your marriage. Why some are ok with that I will never know.

Sorry If I misunderstood what you were saying alexm. Just wanted to lend my perspective.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Lila said:


> I find it difficult to correlate your bolded statement with being an alpha. Maybe it's because I associate alpha/dominant behaviors with leadership and threatening a partner with infidelity is not leading....It's bullying.
> 
> I don't know about other women, but in my relationship, I follow my husband's example. If he were to threaten me with infidelity over a blowjob, I would lose all respect for him.
> 
> Now if he said "I love you but blowjobs are really important to me and I can't live without them. We can divorce so that we can each go find more sexually compatible partners", I'd respect him, and more than likely actually consider his desire for more blowjobs.
> 
> Dread games may work on some women but men who play them better know their audience really well. Giving your wife the wrong impression can make for some serious misunderstandings that may end up destroying your marriage. I would consider it an invitation to start flirting with other men if my husband were to do this with other women. Again, I follow my husband's example and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
> 
> Seriously, honestly is the best policy. State your expectations and if your partner is unwilling to meet them, either accept the status quo or divorce and look for someone who will.



My advice is extreme, I'll give you that. But you know what? His wife is dismissive of his needs and desires. 

His own words "I've begged, pleaded, etc. and there's always an excuse"

You say you would loose all respect for your husband, but she already has! To your example she is not following his example. He's gone out of his way to meet her comfort needs but she does not meet his. He hinted that sex was not frequent enough too.

If the definition of insanity is relating the same thing an expecting a different outcome what he's doing is insane.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Lila said:


> U.E, the point of my post was that if a man wants to be respected and taken seriously by his wife, he probably should not threaten infidelity to get his way. Stuff like that has a way of coming back to haunt.



She already doesn't take him seriously nor does she respect him. 

Men always come on this board with the caveat "I love my wife dearly but...[insert unfulfilling sex life]"

Which I read as "I love my wife but she doesn't fulfill all my needs". She's unwilling to meet his needs, so I suggested he discuss with her about getting them met. It's her choice by who does it. She can do it or farm it out. Perfectly acceptable to me. 

Personally I don't think it's infidelity if she won't do it.


----------



## Cletus

U.E. McGill said:


> She already doesn't take him seriously nor does she respect him.
> 
> Men always come on this board with the caveat "I love my wife dearly but...[insert unfulfilling sex life]"
> 
> Which I read as "I love my wife but she doesn't fulfill all my needs". She's unwilling to meet his needs, so I suggested he discuss with her about getting them met. It's her choice by who does it. She can do it or farm it out. Perfectly acceptable to me.
> 
> Personally I don't think it's infidelity if she won't do it.


So I'm not going to jump off the deep end and presume you mean that a wife is the sexual property and playground of her husband. 

Let's say [insert unfulfilling sex life] revolves around the husband's recently new-found fascination with anal sex, just to use an example. A wife who says "no thanks" and persists in that position gives up her right to a monogamous relationship?

Surely you have a more nuanced view than this.


----------



## Zouz

lamaga said:


> Big Lion, please don't speak for all women!
> 
> There is nothing unfeminine about a blow job, it's one of the most loving things I can do for my husband, and it's as important to our daily routine as hugs and kisses.
> 
> For the OP, I'd stop hinting and come right out and say something. Show her this post. If it starts a fight, well, then, it's worth fighting about. Tell her that you feel unloved and disrespected, and that if she doesn't care about that, your relationship is in more jeopardy than you knew. Also, I wouldn't be giving her any more oral or foot rubs until she indicates a willingness to at least make a mature compromise on the issue.
> 
> Signed, a FEMALE



Every time I read a post from someone like you ; I swear to God I I feel so stupid to stay in my marriage .

I never got a BJ from my wife ( actually she tried once or twice with a condom but felt nothing in 10Sec).

never accepted to leave her tongue on my mouth for more than few secs .

never licked me anywhere .

Never she performed for me .

I go down on her , she hates it .

she just like vanilla ( IF I was a good boy).

My heart ache .

I have a new concept by now ; I have never been into adultery before ; but a ***** is not the one on the streets only ; a ***** is an abuser who torture her husband and sucks happiness from his heart ...

GoD bless souls like you ...


----------



## alexm

Cletus said:


> So I'm not going to jump off the deep end and presume you mean that a wife is the sexual property and playground of her husband.
> 
> Let's say [insert unfulfilling sex life] revolves around the husband's recently new-found fascination with anal sex, just to use an example. A wife who says "no thanks" and persists in that position gives up her right to a monogamous relationship?
> 
> Surely you have a more nuanced view than this.


Totally agree with this.

However, I think the poster meant more along the lines of not meeting sexual needs in the everyday, "normal" (hate that word) way. To which oral sex is, really, an everyday normal thing in terms of sexual intimacy. Anal sex would not be. Or at least not be an expectation of most people, male or female.

Further, I think the poster is implying that anything that is considered "normal" and acceptable and, simply put, part of sex and that is not provided at least occasionally -without good reason - is grounds to be upset.

To me, and probably most others - male and female - refusing to perform oral sex on your partner simply because you don't want to is not copacetic with a healthy sexual intimacy.

Listen, there are reasons, and good reasons, to refuse this sort of thing - I get that. I won't list them, they're obvious. But when the person in question (for example, my wife) can't even provide a reason of his or her own, you've got a problem.

Something like anal sex (ie. out of the "norm") will almost always carry with it a genuine reason for not wanting to do. It hurts. It's gross. It's degrading. Whatever. All legit reasons, imo. I think the VAST majority of people can live without anal sex in their repertoire. Far, FAR fewer (men AND women) can live without oral sex.

From my pov, oral sex is primarily important to me as a form of foreplay. Both me on her, and her on me. No woman likes a guy to just stick it in before she's fully aroused and lubricated. Oral sex on her solves that immediately. Most guys over the age of 18 also need a little bit more "oomph" before they just throw their c*** in and do their thing. For most of us, a hand just doesn't cut it. I can do that myself.

Although the physiology is very different, we men also require some warming up to get FULLY aroused. I only ever get rock hard if it's been a long time or if there's oral sex. But many women, even women with experience, see an erect penis as a sign that it's go-time.

At the end of the day, I'd venture to say that just as many women as men are po'd that their spouse doesn't do oral. Men tend to complain more, I think, whereas women are more likely to keep it to themselves, for whatever reason. I could be wrong.

Either way, unless there's a legit reason for not doing it, the whole thing comes down to not fully caring about your partners pleasure - or yours for that matter. I've found that women who REALLY like sex tend to not be the ones who refuse to do things like oral.


----------



## alexm

intheory said:


> There's a fourth reason, alexm:
> 
> - loves the guys body and enjoys making him happy
> 
> 
> I don't understand why there's a "because it makes them feel in control" part in your description, that's all.
> 
> I understand that's your perception. I think that's a bit sad.
> 
> When my husband goes down on me, I never get the feeling he's enjoying it because he's, "in control".
> 
> Do you enjoy going down on your wife, because it makes you feel like you are "in control"?
> 
> I'm seriously asking. This is a different way of looking at it for me, and I wonder how common it is for other people.


I think your fourth reason is encompassed in my original three, I just didn't fully expand on each point.

As for the control thing, that's a reason I've heard umpteen times in my life, including here. I'm not a woman, so I don't quite understand what kind of power or control one can get from this, but it's a recurring theme I've seen amongst some women.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that the control and power is derived from her ability to pleasure her partner without him doing a thing. Essentially, he's not involved, this isn't about her, etc.

Given that, then yes, I do feel some control when I'm doing it to my wife. It's what I'm doing that's making her feel good. She only has to lie there and enjoy it. I can stop, or slow down, when she's close, for example. If I read her body right, I can drive her crazy. I can do it for as long as I like, or as short as I like. That's control.

Don't mix up control with "controlling".


----------



## Cletus

alexm said:


> Totally agree with this.
> 
> However, I think the poster meant more along the lines of not meeting sexual needs in the everyday, "normal" (hate that word) way. To which oral sex is, really, an everyday normal thing in terms of sexual intimacy. Anal sex would not be. Or at least not be an expectation of most people, male or female.


You realize that by those poster's standards, I was just given the "right" to be unfaithful to my wife?


----------



## U.E. McGill

Cletus said:


> So I'm not going to jump off the deep end and presume you mean that a wife is the sexual property and playground of her husband.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's say [insert unfulfilling sex life] revolves around the husband's recently new-found fascination with anal sex, just to use an example. A wife who says "no thanks" and persists in that position gives up her right to a monogamous relationship?
> 
> 
> 
> Surely you have a more nuanced view than this.



Nope. Never said that.

If they both come to an impasse, decisions need to be made. She can say "yep not gonna do it" as is her right. She can also say "I don't want you going outside the marriage". Also her right. To quote Dan Savage "that's the price of admission". 

He has 2 choices. Quit asking and begging like a little boy, or leave. 

He's behaving like he has no choice. He does. She also sold him a bill of goods. Remember Bj's were a very common thing and then "poof" they dried up. It's not like she said she'd never give them and he tried to change her. This isn't a new found fascination.


----------



## U.E. McGill

Lila said:


> Why is the only choice for her to do it or farm it out? Why not just leave the marriage so that both of you can find someone more compatible who is willing to meet those needs? :scratchhead:



I think they could resolve it that way. Didn't say it was the only option, but I think it would work frankly.


----------



## alexm

Started a poll about this:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/233745-bj-poll-ladies-only.html#post10999361


----------



## Catherine602

> I didn't read all the other posts but I bet money no one will tell you what I'm going to.
> 
> Tell your wife "I know you're not cool with oral. I can't force you to blow me. Or negotiate attraction. So just tell me you're not going to SO I CAN FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO. I'll keep it discreet. "
> 
> Seriously you asked a woman how to build attraction? You don't ask a fish how to catch fish. Quit talking to women about this crap.
> 
> You need to build dread in your wife. Go to the gym. Get fit. Flirt with other women IN FRONT OF HER. Quit whining like a little boy to mommy for some desert. You need to raise your sexual value relative to your wife like when you first started dating. Beta (cleaning, laundry helping) does not cause 'gina tingles. Being a leader, fit and dominant does. Alpha.
> 
> Fix these things and she may blow you like she did when you first started dating. If not her someone will.





> Tell her if you don't someone else will.





> She already doesn't take him seriously nor does she respect him.
> 
> Men always come on this board with the caveat "I love my wife dearly but...[insert unfulfilling sex life]"
> 
> Which I read as "I love my wife but she doesn't fulfill all my needs". She's unwilling to meet his needs, so I suggested he discuss with her about getting them met. It's her choice by who does it. She can do it or farm it out. Perfectly acceptable to me.
> 
> Personally I don't think it's infidelity if she won't do it.


There is no justification to disrespect, humiliate a woman who has your children, makes a comfortable home for you, and provides companionship. Make an orderly exit is such a way as to hurt a little as possible. 

I am a wife and mother and I think that I have something of value to contribute to the discussion. I have changed a great deal since joining TAM. Some of the men who helped me don't post much any more I am sorry to say. They challenged me but did not attack. Your wife's silence on how she really feels may be because of the dynamic demonstrated on this thread. Silence is better than being attacked and accused of all kinds of evil. 

The things assumed about my post is astounding to me. If my husband used the same lenses to judge everything I uttered about how I feel about sex, I would have shut down long ago. He does not seem threatened. Out of the chaos of my thoughts comes order. He seems to think that the things I say are worth more than a quick and angry dismissal. 

I hear real expressions of pain but I don't understand it. How can anyone who feels pain turn around so easily and want to inflict as much pain as possible on another?


----------



## alexm

U.E. McGill said:


> My advice is extreme, I'll give you that. But you know what? His wife is dismissive of his needs and desires.
> 
> His own words "I've begged, pleaded, etc. and there's always an excuse"
> 
> You say you would loose all respect for your husband, but she already has! To your example she is not following his example. He's gone out of his way to meet her comfort needs but she does not meet his. He hinted that sex was not frequent enough too.
> 
> If the definition of insanity is relating the same thing an expecting a different outcome what he's doing is insane.


I dunno... I'm of two minds about this whole subject.

Sex (or performing a sexual act) is not the same as anything in the world. It doesn't compare to doing household chores, or something else that one can dislike.

I hate, HATE, folding laundry. Hate it with a passion. I'll avoid it like the plague. Seriously, I will wash and dry 10 loads of laundry, bring them all up to the bedroom, and leave them there. This isn't very nice to my wife, as she ends up folding them for the 4 of us. I couldn't give you a legitimate reason as to why I hate it so much (other than it's possibly the most mundane thing on the planet...) and it drives her nuts.

But, every now and again (like 2 or 3 times a year, lol) I will fold all the laundry and put it away, simply because I feel like I should, it makes my wife happy, takes a load off her day, whatever. But I still hate it.

Sex is not laundry, no matter how we compare it. Some folks, for whatever reason, attach a stigma of some sort to sex, and sexual acts (ie. BJs). It's not that it's boring, or even time consuming. Some people, like my wife, have just got it in their heads that there's nothing worse, apparently, than doing it.

My wife can not, for the life of her, describe WHY she hates giving BJs. (this is under the assumption that she's not hiding something from me). I've asked her all the questions (uncomfortable? hurts? gross? smells? degrading? past history issues?) and nothing applies.

This is not the first I've heard of this - where someone (usually a woman, and usually related to BJs) has no articulate reason to dislike, hate, avoid giving them. There's obviously a stigma attached to some aspects of sexuality, and BJs are chief among them, for whatever reason. I suspect my wife feels used, even though she doesn't say she does. 

Simply put, my wife is not a giver, in any aspect of her life. She's also not a taker, either. She does do things she doesn't want to do, and she does take things when offered, but rarely when either is a big deal, if you know what I mean. The more I think about it, the more I think she prefers to avoid owing somebody something, and it goes in the other direction as well - she doesn't like to give TOO much, lest it start to be expected regularly. And I'm not just talking about sex.

So to me, it's a personality issue more often than not. Judging by my wifes past ability to be freakish and dirty and adventurous in bed with me, I don't think that she has a stigma about sex. What I am discovering is that she doesn't like to owe, or be owed anything.

The problem is, of course, that marriage is vastly different than every other relationship one has, with friends, with family, with co-workers. I have needs, she has needs, we meet these needs in order to foster a healthy relationship. I find that some people, like my wife, treat marriage and relationships the same as any other relationship, in that everything has to be "even" and accounted for. Where the reality is that it -should- be me doing everything I can to take care of her needs, and vice versa, without tallying it on a scoreboard. At work, if you cover for somebody, they owe you. If your friend buys a round of beers, it's your turn next. Marriage isn't, and shouldn't, be like that.

I am positive this is why my wife "hates" BJs so much, yet regularly gave them for ~5 years before, apparently, having enough. Somewhere the dynamic changed, to the point where she no longer felt the need to do something like that for my happiness. But she did, for 5 years, with nary a complaint. I'm wondering what happened in our relationship for her to make the decision to tell me he hates it and only ever did it for my sake.

What happened that I am no longer worthy of her going above and beyond for?


----------



## U.E. McGill

Catherine602 said:


> There is no justification to disrespect, humiliate a woman who has your children, makes a comfortable home for you, and provides companionship. Make an orderly exit is such a way as to hurt a little as possible.
> 
> I am a wife and mother and I think that I have something of value to contribute to the discussion. I have changed a great deal since joining TAM. Some of the men who helped me don't post much any more I am sorry to say. They challenged me but did not attack. Your wife's silence on how she really feels may be because of the dynamic demonstrated on this thread. Silence is better than being attacked and accused of all kinds of evil.
> 
> The things assumed about my post is astounding to me. If my husband used the same lenses to judge everything I uttered about how I feel about sex, I would have shut down long ago. He does not seem threatened. Out of the chaos of my thoughts comes order. He seems to think that the things I say are worth more than a quick and angry dismissal.
> 
> I hear real expressions of pain but I don't understand it. How can anyone who feels pain turn around so easily and want to inflict as much pain as possible on another?



I don't find it disrespectful at all. Just open and honest. I suspect one of 2 things, the OP has not explicitly stated his needs or his wife has so absolutely dismissed them that he has no recourse. 

He has said she always has excuses. Frankly oral sex is part of the marital package of you ask me. I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for along with PIV. There's already a lack of respect in the marriage, from her. 

Is my method harsh? You bet yah. But look what results he has gotten so far.


----------



## 1812overture

alexm said:


> Does it matter that she bait and switched me without being conscious of doing it? Not really.


Well, to me, the "bait" part requires intent, but that's semantics. For me BJs dwindled quickly down to zero, after I had a vasectomy. It had been a common part of foreplay, previously, as I fumbled for a condom. Of course, soon after BJs went to zero sex dwindled, and is now at zero. So, I'm partly just commiserating, partly warning, partly venting.

I now know she's not a big fan of BJs, but I don't know if that's an always condition or something that has occurred since marriage. I know next to nothing about her sexual past, but there's reason to believe I was not the first man she serviced orally. 

And to me, even before everything stopped, it was a bit disappointing, probably hurtful. I thought I had won the competition to spend the rest of my life with her. I assumed that would mean I would get more and better than anyone else. And, dammit, I was going to provide more and better than anyone else (while acknowledging to myself that it might not be possible.) 

She was never very comfortable talking about our sex life, when we had one, and unlocking her preferences and pleasures really only generated "nothing too wild." I always tried to tell her how great it was, physically and emotionally. (Seriously, there's a whole lot of trust with what she's holding in her hands and has between her teeth.)

She'll say our lack of sex is a symptom of other problems. I agree, but I also think it's a problem on it's own -- and the dwindling nature of everything highlights that -- resentments building up over time, so things she didn't really enjoy but did because I enjoyed stopped, and now it's at the point where nothing is worth doing.

Given that something hit the off-switch for your wife, our situations are different. But, though your wife may now regret telling you, I think it is wise to continue to discuss it. How else would she know what impact it has on you, and how else can you judge her response to the impact it has on you? How else can you judge the impact your disappointment has on her? 

Your experience on the receiving end matches mine -- I never asked, assumed, forced, etc. I think it ought to territory to ask why, back when it wasn't a problem, she offered it freely, and now has stopped. Obviously, your enjoyment and its meaning to you hasn't changed.


----------



## alexm

1812overture said:


> She'll say our lack of sex is a symptom of other problems. I agree, but I also think it's a problem on it's own -- and the dwindling nature of everything highlights that -- *resentments building up over time, so things she didn't really enjoy but did because I enjoyed stopped, and now it's at the point where nothing is worth doing.*
> 
> Given that something hit the off-switch for your wife, our situations are different. But, though your wife may now regret telling you, I think it is wise to continue to discuss it. How else would she know what impact it has on you, and how else can you judge her response to the impact it has on you? How else can you judge the impact your disappointment has on her?
> 
> Your experience on the receiving end matches mine -- I never asked, assumed, forced, etc. I think it ought to territory to ask why, back when it wasn't a problem, she offered it freely, and now has stopped. Obviously, your enjoyment and its meaning to you hasn't changed.


I think you've hit the nail on the head (as have others here, and in other threads) and I, myself, am only starting to identify and agree with.

Thing is, I couldn't tell you what changed with us for something like this to become "no longer worth doing", I really can't. And my wife isn't the type of person to tell somebody until it's too late to do anything about it.

From what I can tell of her previous relationships, she broke up with them because she "couldn't take it any longer", whatever "it" happened to be. It doesn't sound like she tried to communicate anything to these people until it was far too late, and the result was breaking up. Given that she still does not communicate much with me, I fear the same thing is happening. Difference is, I have NO idea what "it" could be. I'm not perfect, but given the reasons she broke up with her other LTR's, I can't figure out what MY "it" is.

I'm starting to think that the BJ's are just the start, with the "can't take it anymore" part coming somewhere down the road...


----------



## jorgegene

alexm said:


> Started a poll about this:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/233745-bj-poll-ladies-only.html#post10999361[/QUOTE
> 
> the poll was deleted?


----------



## U.E. McGill

alexm said:


> I think you've hit the nail on the head (as have others here, and in other threads) and I, myself, am only starting to identify and agree with.
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is, I couldn't tell you what changed with us for something like this to become "no longer worth doing", I really can't. And my wife isn't the type of person to tell somebody until it's too late to do anything about it.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I can tell of her previous relationships, she broke up with them because she "couldn't take it any longer", whatever "it" happened to be. It doesn't sound like she tried to communicate anything to these people until it was far too late, and the result was breaking up. Given that she still does not communicate much with me, I fear the same thing is happening. Difference is, I have NO idea what "it" could be. I'm not perfect, but given the reasons she broke up with her other LTR's, I can't figure out what MY "it" is.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm starting to think that the BJ's are just the start, with the "can't take it anymore" part coming somewhere down the road...



So get proactive brother. There's always 2 broken people in a marriage. Fix yourself. Read MMSLP and get ahead of the curve.

Women are covert communicators. Chances are correct she does not know what's bothering her, but nonetheless it's there. But if you fix your problems she may want to fix hers.


----------



## BeenThereBefore

In one of my previous relationships I had a girlfriend who would not talk about anything that bothered her.

This started causing all kinds of problems, so one day I got a notebook and took her out for lunch. I got the notebook out and said tell me everything that is bothering you, she said nothing is bothering her, so I said ok we are going to do this every week and you have to tell me something, and I have to write it down. 

The first couple weeks, she just made up stuff or said things that didn't matter, but then she started in with small things and eventually she started telling me things that bothered her.

I would write them down and tell her I would work on it, I think at some point she realized I was serious, and when I wrote something down I would actually try and do something about it.
Then she started trying to talk to me about things that bothered her.


----------



## Catherine602

U.E. McGill said:


> I don't find it disrespectful at all. Just open and honest. I suspect one of 2 things, the OP has not explicitly stated his needs or his wife has so absolutely dismissed them that he has no recourse.
> 
> He has said she always has excuses. Frankly oral sex is part of the marital package of you ask me. I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for along with PIV. There's already a lack of respect in the marriage, from her.
> 
> Is my method harsh? You bet yah. But look what results he has gotten so far.


What concerns me is you give so much power to someone who you don't love, trust and respect. You will never be able to get a woman to give you oral sex under the threat of humiliation. Think about it. You are asking someone to give you pleasure for the privilege of your company. 

They would have to agree that they are worth nothing to you except their willingness to give you oral sex. Why do you think that would work? In addition, you get what you give. If you think that you have the right to cheat, so can she. You would have to make sure you do what she wants to the letter or else. 

Not a good way to have a relationship. Better not to get into that situation to begin with.


----------



## Cletus

jorgegene said:


> alexm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Started a poll about this:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/233745-bj-poll-ladies-only.html#post10999361[/QUOTE
> 
> the poll was deleted?
> 
> 
> 
> I started a poll this morning that was gone before another poster even had the opportunity to read it. The thread Nazis are very rigid on threads with polls in them.
Click to expand...


----------



## U.E. McGill

Catherine602 said:


> What concerns me is you give so much power to someone who you don't love, trust and respect. You will never be able to get a woman to give you oral sex under the threat of humiliation. Think about it. You are asking someone to give you pleasure for the privilege of the pleasure of your company.
> 
> 
> 
> They would have to agree that they are worth nothing to you except their willingness to give you oral sex. Why do you think that would work? In addition, you get what you give. If you think that you have the right to cheat, so can she. You would have to make sure you do what she wants to the letter or else.
> 
> 
> 
> Not a good way to have a relationship. Better not to get into that situation to begin with.



Your right in one aspect. I define my relationship with my wife as an intimate one. To be married to me I expect someone who willingly gives that to me. So yes, to be my wife I expect sex. In exchange I offer sexual exclusivity. Change the contract and I will renegotiate. 

I will not remain in a relationship where there is no sex life. It's a primary need for me. I've been honest to my wife all along for that. 

What you seem to be missing is, I'm not saying to ask for something extreme. It's part of a normal health sex life that the OP's wife is unwilling to do. 

You use the word "cheat", I never did. I think non-monogamy is better. Cheating implies dishonest. The Op's wife is the one who is dishonest if you ask me. Plenty of people have successful non-monogamy relationships.


----------



## Buddy400

Catherine602 said:


> The things assumed about my post is astounding to me. If my husband used the same lenses to judge everything I uttered about how I feel about sex, I would have shut down long ago. He does not seem threatened. Out of the chaos of my thoughts comes order. He seems to think that the things I say are worth more than a quick and angry dismissal.


I bothered me that you considered something on this thread a "quick and angry dismissal". I wouldn't want to be the person doing the dismissing. I think this is a rare place where people could learn from each other instead of just hurling insults back and forth.

I've been searching back through the thread to find what the "things assumed about my post" that astounds you. I'm guessing that it started with my response to your assumption of what a "cold bj" means. Wolf, sam and I quickly responded that we thought you had it wrong. But, I certainly wasn't try to be angry and dismissive and it doesn't seem to me that the others were either. 

Your engagement with U.E is a bit unfortunate because you're talking to someone with an outlier viewpoint (although very valid in some ways) and, if anyone's going to set you off on what blowjobs mean, it's going to be him.

alexm's story is fascinating because it represents the common guy view of bjs as a question of "why doesn't she care about my happiness enough to inconvenience herself?" I think there can be a very productive talk about this between men and women.


----------



## Catherine602

Buddy400 said:


> I bothered me that you considered something on this thread a "quick and angry dismissal". I wouldn't want to be the person doing the dismissing. I think this is a rare place where people could learn from each other instead of just hurling insults back and forth.
> 
> I've been searching back through the thread to find what the "things assumed about my post" that astounds you. I'm guessing that it started with my response to your assumption of what a "cold bj" means. Wolf, sam and I quickly responded that we thought you had it wrong. But, I certainly wasn't try to be angry and dismissive and it doesn't seem to me that the others were either.
> 
> Your engagement with U.E is a bit unfortunate because you're talking to someone with an outlier viewpoint (although very valid in some ways) and, if anyone's going to set you off on what blowjobs mean, it's going to be him.
> 
> alexm's story is fascinating because it represents the common guy view of bjs as a question of "why doesn't she care about my happiness enough to inconvenience herself?" I think there can be a very productive talk about this between men and women.


Thank you Buddy. I think I don't explain what I mean as well as I should and may be too abrupt. So let me try again. This is how I feel so I thought it may bear some resemblance to the way other women feel. I thought it would be helpful to share my feelings. It difficult to read about the pain of men like Alex and say nothing. That is the only reason I am posting on the thread.

I love love love oral sex, giving and receiving. However, I can't do it when I am not aroused and not satisfied sexually or in the mood. Although I need a jump start to get aroused, when I am, I want an orgasm. On the other hand, I appreciate that my husband needs to hold off until I get an orgasm which takes work. I think about these things and just want him to relax and give himself up to pure pleasure. That's what I mean about having to be in the mood to give a "stand alone" bj. He never ask me for one. 

Buddy I've posted the above on several threads but my posts are either ignored, or attacked for accusing men of selfishness or that stand alone bj are the exception and not the rule. Why do women stop doing bj? Maybe they don't like the expectation of "stand alone" bj for the same reason I don't like them. Maybe they don't like being asked for something to show their love when they think they already do show love in other ways and feel unappreciated. 

I'll be honest - I would feel unappreciated if my husband told me he needed a bj to feel loved. First of all, I would find it unbelievable and second showing a lack of appreciation for all the things I do. If he told me that he wants one because he goes to work and does housework, I would find him a little less unattractive. I think I bring as much to the table as he does but in different ways. 

May I offer some thoughts - don't let bj stand out from mutually satisfying sex too frequently. It's easy to shoot down. Try to appreciate that your partner thinks she is bringing as much to the table as you think you are .I hope that no one is affronted by what I wrote. I may be wrong because I don't really know any more than anyone else. It's a guess but please let me know in a way that is not accusatory.


----------



## alexm

Cletus said:


> jorgegene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I started a poll this morning that was gone before another poster even had the opportunity to read it. The thread Nazis are very rigid on threads with polls in them.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? :scratchhead:
Click to expand...


----------



## Faithful Wife

Hey I was looking for your poll too, Alex...you could ask down in the lower section.


----------



## anonmd

Catherine602 said:


> I love love love oral sex, giving and receiving. *However, I can't do it when I am not aroused and not satisfied sexually or in the mood.* Although I need a jump start to get aroused, when I am, I want an orgasm. On the other hand, I appreciate that my husband needs to hold off until I get an orgasm which takes work. I think about these things and just want him to relax and give himself up to pure pleasure. That's what I mean about having to be in the mood to give a "stand alone" bj. He never ask me for one.


This is kind of interesting, the bolded part. As a male, I do not need to be aroused to start something. The arousal can come later, after the start, or not at all for some things - but it is like a switch and generally there when needed. If I had to be aroused first how often would we start? Twice a month I guess sounds like a fundamental difference...


----------



## Catherine602

anonmd said:


> This is kind of interesting, the bolded part. As a male, I do not need to be aroused to start something. The arousal can come later, after the start, or not at all for some things - but it is like a switch and generally there when needed. If I had to be aroused first how often would we start? Twice a month I guess sounds like a fundamental difference...


I'll try to describe how I feel and what I do, if it will help. I don't feel the desire to have sex until I am aroused most of the time. I have the desire to get aroused. I don't eat until I fell hungry, don't drink until I feel thirsty or go to sleep until I feel sleepy. So I never thought it was abnormal. But sex is different since it involves not just myself but my husband. So I feel a desire to be aroused and I do what it takes to get there. I know my husband is not like me in this regard. 

It was hard for both of us to adjust when our children came along. Only then did the differences really begin to show and be a big problem. One thing that helped us was accepting that we were both normal. I was not broken and he was not sex crazed.  I don't wait around until I feel desire to have sex. That would be about 2 consecutive days every month. I enjoy sex much more frequently than 2 times a month.

I learned about him as a man first and then we were able to talk more. He was much more open to accepting my differences when I did not make him feel like he was the problem. It is not a source of conflict anymore. We just fix things right away when we start drifting to our respective corners. One think I notice is that a compromise is dynamic, you don't reach it and stay there. It's like swimming in sync you have to work at staying together.

I wish I had a sex drive like my husband. Maybe I will reach my sexual peak in the future like other women.  I wish it would hurry and happen.


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## anonmd

Thanks, it helps I guess. Maddening but I suppose it helps. Explains the total inability to be spontaneous except for maybe once a decade. No, I am not talking about you


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## Catherine602

Anonmd i think you feel like my husband. He does not say but I think he would like me to just jump his bones. I've tried to do it fantasize about it but I cant. I had a very religious upbringing and although I am no longer devout, I can't seem to overcome some of indoctrination. I should for my husband but I have not been able to yet. I read about your frustration and men like you and I hope that my heart opens enough to overcome this. 

What type of show of desire would at lest make you semi happy. My attempt are too subtle and much of the time not effective. Do you have any suggestion that might help me? If I could just start I think I could get better.


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## BeenThereBefore

Catherine602 said:


> What type of show of desire would at lest make you semi happy. My attempt are too subtle and much of the time not effective. Do you have any suggestion that might help me? If I could just start I think I could get better.


my first girlfriend would get books and videos show them to me and then ask me if I would like it if she did that to me?

I thought that was highly effective.


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## anonmd

OMG, drop the word subtle for a start. You are a women, if it is subtle to you it is undetectable to us most of the time. That dynamic changing you talked about? What worked last time flopped this time and we're supposed to detect some subtle hint. 

Not sure if you are asking about how to start or during? For the time being I'll assume it is how to start and the during is just fine. Think sledge hammer if you don't like it he probably will. We've all got a handle, grab it. My wife and I have this constant issue, she says I'm too grabby - fair enough but here's my problem. We'll be kissing really Passionately and she will sort of melt in to me. Perhaps there is some subtle signal available to tell me whether to move further ahead or not but I'll be damned if I can detect it. Hint, grab the handle. If that is too much whisper in our ear "I want you" or "take me" or whatever you are comfortable with. We'll take it from there. 






Catherine602 said:


> Anonmd i think you feel like my husband. He does not say but I think he would like me to just jump his bones. I've tried to do it fantasize about it but I cant. I had a very religious upbringing and although I am no longer devout, I can't seem to overcome some of indoctrination. I should for my husband but I have not been able to yet. I read about your frustration and men like you and I hope that my heart opens enough to overcome this.
> 
> What type of show of desire would at lest make you semi happy. My attempt are too subtle and much of the time not effective. Do you have any suggestion that might help me? If I could just start I think I could get better.


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## jomoc

Catherine602 said:


> Anonmd i think you feel like my husband. He does not say but I think he would like me to just jump his bones. I've tried to do it fantasize about it but I cant. I had a very religious upbringing and although I am no longer devout, I can't seem to overcome some of indoctrination. I should for my husband but I have not been able to yet. I read about your frustration and men like you and I hope that my heart opens enough to overcome this.
> 
> What type of show of desire would at lest make you semi happy. My attempt are too subtle and much of the time not effective. Do you have any suggestion that might help me? If I could just start I think I could get better.


As was said by another poster, forget about being subtle. My wife has a very effective approach. She will come up to me at random times when I am not expecting it, and say, "do you want a blow job?". It always puts a smile on my face


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## anonmd

The other thing is do not be afraid to get us aroused even if you do not want to go further at the moment. You don't want to be nothing but a tease of course but really, don't worry about it. It goes up and down at least a dozen times a day without your assistance . "maybe later" or "can't wait for Saturday night" would be TOTALLY cool....


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## alexm

anonmd said:


> OMG, drop the word subtle for a start. You are a women, if it is subtle to you it is undetectable to us most of the time. That dynamic changing you talked about? What worked last time flopped this time and we're supposed to detect some subtle hint.
> 
> Not sure if you are asking about how to start or during? For the time being I'll assume it is how to start and the during is just fine. Think sledge hammer if you don't like it he probably will. We've all got a handle, grab it. My wife and I have this constant issue, she says I'm too grabby - fair enough but here's my problem. We'll be kissing really Passionately and she will sort of melt in to me. Perhaps there is some subtle signal available to tell me whether to move further ahead or not but I'll be damned if I can detect it. Hint, grab the handle. If that is too much whisper in our ear "I want you" or "take me" or whatever you are comfortable with. We'll take it from there.


Right? Right! Just grab it, take it out, whatever. Most of us guys don't do subtle, nor do we care to. If we've taken the time to seduce you - to get YOU in the mood, then run with it, otherwise we get confused. We're not typically that bright unless something is plainly obvious... 

That, and most of us really (REALLY) like a woman who can show some initiative, especially after we've done it "your" way to start.

And here's why - even if we're 99% certain you're in the mood, we're sometimes wrong. Well, wrong enough times that we get frustrated! How many of us have been POSITIVE we've done all the right things, she's responding, she seems like she's ready to go, then nope.

Far too many women, my wife included, don't grab the bull by the horns. Happened to me last night. Started with a nice back massage on my part. I had no ulterior motive. I felt like giving her a massage, she seemed to need one, no big deal. All done, and we proceed to lie next to each other in bed. I'm still not thinking "sex" - seriously. Just wasn't on my radar, probably because of all the frustration. She was clearly in the mood, I figured out not that long after, but I made NO moves. She was rubbing and touching me, pretty much everywhere BUT there. Duh.

Normally what would happen is that I would make a move on her, then away we go. Problem is, since the oral sex stopped from her, I end up doing 90% of the work, and I just wasn't in the mood last night.

And that's what our sex life has become. I can get her in the mood by giving her a great massage, but then I have to do further "work", as well. If she just grabbed my junk, or pushed my head down, all would have been good, I guess. But because she just can't do that thing, she was SOL. Normally I would take that hint and go with it, because it might be a week or two before my next chance. Right now, I don't care, I'm done having to do all the seduction, all the real foreplay, and most of the work during. Meh.


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## anonmd

I've had my wife walk in to the kitchen naked to start something on the stove. This was after one of those " you make me feel pressured all the time talks" within a week or two prior. So I'm sitting there frikkin baffled, am I supposed to take the bait or is this a test?:scratchhead: WTF? Not a word, just stands there stirring. I figured it out but come on, even when she is obviously trying to be direct it has to be a puzzle. We will not think less of you, that was maybe for before marriage. Of course she was ok with direct before marriage


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## alexm

anonmd said:


> I've had my wife walk in to the kitchen naked to start something on the stove. This was after one of those " you make me feel pressured all the time talks" within a week or two prior. So I'm sitting there frikkin baffled, am I supposed to take the bait or is this a test?:scratchhead: WTF? Not a word, just stands there stirring. I figured it out but come on, even when she is obviously trying to be direct it has to be a puzzle. We will not think less of you, that was maybe for before marriage. Of course she was ok with direct before marriage


Seriously, the male equivalent of you (women) being romanced all day, culminating in passionate love making is: take it out and play with it.  Sometimes this is the absolute best way to go about it. Don't talk to me, don't "hint", don't even wink and walk towards the bedroom (because us following you is basically you being pursued). Come up to me, unbuckle my belt, and take it out. It's that simple. It may not be all that exciting for some of you women, but always having to put in hours of "work", trying to read your body language, looking for hints, etc. isn't all that exciting, either!

Most of us guys just aren't built that way, but we're willing to put in the effort to meet your needs in this regard. All too often, sex between couples becomes one-sided, in that the woman absolutely requires it be done her way, or "too bad, try again next week". And here's the thing - we can lose interest quickly if it's us doing all the heavy lifting, all the time, in a way that is foreign to our gender. We've been conditioned to accept that this is the way it is supposed to be all the time. But it's not fair.

I see so many complaints here, and IRL, about somebody's husband who doesn't attend to his wife's needs, and then wants sex, seemingly out of the blue. But this is how WE'RE built. That's how WE show intimacy. It's the same difference, imo, if the wife only ever responds to her husband when she's been romanced and snuggled and otherwise buttered up. And that's just not fair.

Balance it out, and we're good. We'll be much more likely to attend to your needs going forward as long as ours are being met on a more or less equal basis. It's not rocket science, and it can't always be the way YOU want it to be.

Less talk, more (r)ock!


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## anonmd

While I don't want to speak for all guys here, for myself I'm not looking for 50/50 either. Be perfectly happy if once every month or two or three she took the direct approach. Unless I am in a hospital bed you will not be turned down...


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## HiLibido

alexm said:


> And that's what our sex life has become. I can get her in the mood by giving her a great massage, *but then I have to do further "work", as well.* If she just grabbed my junk, or pushed my head down, all would have been good, I guess. But because she just can't do that thing, she was SOL. Normally I would take that hint and go with it, because it might be a week or two before my next chance. Right now, I don't care, *I'm done having to do all the seduction, all the real foreplay, and most of the work during.* Meh.


EXACTLY!

I also have to do all the fricking work! It's exhausting. Why can't she take the lead once in a while? Why can't she "do" me, after all the times I've "done" her?

My wife has the perfect excuse: BJs make her jaw hurt. She can't hold her mouth that way for any length of time. So BJs are OUT at my house.

Guess what else is out? 

Damn right.


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## alexm

HiLibido said:


> EXACTLY!
> 
> I also have to do all the fricking work! It's exhausting. Why can't she take the lead once in a while? Why can't she "do" me, after all the times I've "done" her?
> 
> My wife has the perfect excuse: BJs make her jaw hurt. She can't hold her mouth that way for any length of time. So BJs are OUT at my house.
> 
> Guess what else is out?
> 
> Damn right.


Lest this devolve into a "bitter man venting" thread, I'm glad I'm not alone. Maybe us dudes should create a club or something.

I'm absolutely all for romance and seduction and giving my wife what she wants, but I am so sick and tired of her, and others, expecting it to be like this at all times. It's basically "you want sex? you have to work for it!" This is fine, even 80 or 90% of the time, to be honest. But around here, it's 99% of the time. The other 1% comes only because I tell her, for the 100th time, that *I* need to feel wanted or pursued. Then it magically happens once, and it's forgotten about again.

My wife tells me she does not know how to seduce a man. That doing what I have suggested makes her feel awkward, and that it is "not her". I'm sorry? What? You can't reach for my junk once a month and undo my belt? It makes you feel awkward that you are doing something that I tell you means to me what flowers and a thoughtful card for no reason means to you? (that I feel wanted)

I'm at a loss when it comes to women like this, not just my wife. It is infinitely easier and requires MUCH less effort than any of the things we guys are expected to do. It doesn't require any thought. There's no wrong way to do it. Or wrong TIME to do it. And my wife really only needs to do this MAYBE once a month to make me happy.

To all the women out there who's partners only ever show their affection when you tell them/remind them to, I feel you.

It's ridiculous. I pride myself on not being sexist (on purpose, anyway). I'm all for feminism. When it comes to sex, however, especially in marriage, so many women still expect this old-fashioned almost stereotype of "the woman must be seduced first" and "the man is the pursuer".


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## Fozzy

This thread is really hitting me in the feels today


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## anonmd

Fozzy said:


> This thread is really hitting me in the feels today


Catherine should come back and talk us off the ledge, too much testosterone in this thread at the moment


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## HiLibido

alexm said:


> Lest this devolve into a "bitter man venting" thread..."


Oops. Too late!


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## alexm

HiLibido said:


> Oops. Too late!


Pretty much!

When in Rome:

So for the past month or so I have't been initiating really. I figure the less pressure she has on her, and the less interest I show, the more she may "wake up" a little. I haven't changed a thing outside the bedroom - still being loving and caring, doing all the little things. Just not making any sexual advances at all, and the few times I've felt frustrated, I haven't shown it. Obviously it hasn't been long enough, that I know, and I plan to continue this way going forward, anyway.

As I touched on earlier in this thread, I'm frustrated at the fact that our sex life has become 99.9% all on me. I have to initiate. I have to do all the "work".

Up until about a year ago, things were fine in my books. I've always had to be the initiator, but the pay off was worth it. She was a willing partner (when she didn't reject me), and actively took part in our sex (ie. BJ's, changing positions, etc.) Here's a quick timeline of how things devolved:

year one: never said no, actively involved, made noise during sex (sometimes loud), talked to me (**** me, harder, etc.), changed positions on her own.

year two: said no occasionally, still actively involved, wasn't as loud, no more talking during sex, everything else still the same

year three: said no more frequently, but was still involved

year four (we moved in together): said no ~50% of the time, still actively involved, barely any noise making (but we were no longer alone in the house), let me take the reigns regarding position changing, etc.

year five - present: sex is now basically Saturday nights, with the occasional (once a month?) other day, making noise maybe once a month, her foreplay consists of touching my penis and otherwise rubbing the rest of my body (ie. no more oral), and one position, unless I get her to turn over.

We have had sex twice in the last 4 weeks or so. The first time was standard - me initiating, some touching, kissing, I gave her oral as I always do, she touched my penis, we had PIV. Vanilla, but not duty sex. Entirely forgettable, though.

The second time, I was giving her a GOOD massage (and not thinking about sex at all), but I guess this turned her on. We lay together for about 10 minutes, she kissed me, started touching me, etc. but in all honesty, I just wasn't feeling it for some reason. I ended up giving her oral, thinking it would be enough for her, and when I was done, we snuggled again. No skin off my back. She started touching me again, told me she wanted more, so I had sex with her - but I didn't orgasm... She came quickly, and I pulled out, and we snuggled again. She asked why I didn't finish, I told her I was fine, it's all good, and was okay with satisfying her.

Here's the thing - she started to touch me again, said she wanted me to be satisfied too. So I figured, hey, maybe she'll really make an effort, so just go with it. After about 5 minutes of touching my penis, it was clear she wasn't going to do anything but that, and it started to chafe a little. I stopped her, told her it was all good, it wasn't happening, and that I wasn't upset and not to worry about it. I meant this honestly.

We ended up having a short discussion the next day about how I really don't mind satisfying her on occasion with nothing in return. A few weeks earlier, we had showered together (didn't start out as sexual) and I went down on her in the shower. I got nothing in return, but also didn't ask or hint, and I was fine with it.

I told her straight up during our discussion that the lack of foreplay for me was an issue - the first time I had really told her this since the infamous BJ outburst 6-7 months ago. I said that it's very nice when she touches me, and we kiss, etc. but that it's just not enough. I asked her what she would think if I stopped giving her oral, and she said she'd miss it and it would make a difference for sure.

But that's it. Nothing further from her. I don't think she's prepared to bring that back to the table, even if I stop giving her oral. She'll miss it, but...

So we'll see. I'm on strike when it comes to initiating, and I'm on strike when it comes to oral sex. It's not out of spite or pride, it's simply out of "I don't give a damn if she doesn't". And that's the thing - right now, and for the last couple of weeks, I don't give a damn. I used to be SO focused on satisfying her in the bedroom, and she used to be, too. Except when she stopped, I didn't, and for the last year or so, it's been me doing the work from start to finish.

Argh.


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## ChristianGrey

Blowjobs not part of foreplay or obligatory before sex?

I never have sex without a full blowjob or at least a bit of sucky sucky first otherwise I wouldn't let her cook for me.


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## efowler25

It sounds like I'm late to the party......but.still going to.give my 2 cents. 

I LOVE giving my husband a BJ. It's always a part of our sex, whether that's how it starts or finishes. A lot of times it just a little treat in the middle. However my husband enjoys it. Hearing his groans and moans is what makes me enjoy it. It makes me want to give more. Are you men all appreciative.....as in letting your women know how enjoyable it is for you? I wouldn't enjoy it so much if he didn't.


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## ChristianGrey

efowler25 said:


> I wouldn't enjoy it so much if he didn't.


You are on to something there.


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## efowler25

ChristianGrey said:


> You are on to something there.


Thank you very much!!


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## ChristianGrey

efowler25 said:


> Thank you very much!!


Also one can easily up the game, on top of the moans and groans by doing certain things, saying certain things, in a certain kind of tone etc etc etc...

Just sayin.


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## efowler25

ChristianGrey said:


> Also one can easily up the game, on top of the moans and groans by doing certain things, saying certain things, in a certain kind of tone etc etc etc...
> 
> Just sayin.


Agreed!! Totally turns me on with his hands in my hair, showing me what he wants.


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## DTO

alexm said:


> I'm absolutely all for romance and seduction and giving my wife what she wants, but I am so sick and tired of her, and others, expecting it to be like this at all times. It's basically "you want sex? you have to work for it!"


Include me in that club. My ex was essentially "treat me good all the time, and I'll get around to you when and how I feel like". It's like when a woman says "I need to feel wanted and appreciated" I'm like "No Sh!t? What a coincidence!"


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## IIJokerII

efowler25 said:


> Are you men all appreciative.....as in letting your women know how enjoyable it is for you? I wouldn't enjoy it so much if he didn't.


 Not to sound like a fool and all, but I can count on no fingers the number of guys who disliked or did not want a blow job. Sure some may prefer PIV or Anal but dislike, never met one. 

Personally I think non PIV orgasm's women instigate from men are during the pre-marriage days and/or honeymoon phase. Usually most men and women who remark about the lack thereof is followed by " She/I used to get/give BJ's before we had x amount of children" which may also be followed up by what is a long time together so the "Giddy" feeling is gone, only the calm feeling of having a companion you know is there day in and out. 

Remember, there is a difference between love and passion.

Also, lets not dismiss the fact that most act we employ in the bedroom are just auditions for the title of spouse, after they get hired is it really a surprise they stop doing it. And this goes for both men and women.


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## efowler25

IIJokerII said:


> Not to sound like a fool and all, but I can count on no fingers the number of guys who disliked or did not want a blow job. Sure some may prefer PIV or Anal but dislike, never met one.
> 
> Personally I think non PIV orgasm's women instigate from men are during the pre-marriage days and/or honeymoon phase. Usually most men and women who remark about the lack thereof is followed by " She/I used to get/give BJ's before we had x amount of children" which may also be followed up by what is a long time together so the "Giddy" feeling is gone, only the calm feeling of having a companion you know is there day in and out.
> 
> Remember, there is a difference between love and passion.
> 
> Also, lets not dismiss the fact that most act we employ in the bedroom are just auditions for the title of spouse, after they get hired is it really a surprise they stop doing it. And this goes for both men and women.


I've been married almost 12 years and together 16......maybe I'm the exception to the rule but I still thoughly enjoy all of the above.


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## FatherofTwo

Towards the end of my marriage there were very few positives regarding my ex wife however her enjoyment of giving head from our first date to our last days as married couple was .......... admirable and appreciated to say the least.


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## billybonny

has anyone here thought of the idea of just finding someone who loves to give you blowjobs? don't you think that is energy best used instead of coming wasting time coming up with ****ed up ideas of how to get your wife to give you blowjobs when you know she will not give you a blowjob or at least a blowjob like that!


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