# Dead end cul-de-sac



## thelitewentoff (Mar 29, 2017)

Just joined this forum to maybe get some advice, suggestions and/or feedback from people in similar a situation as mine.
My wife and I have been married for 28 years, both in our early 50's, raised two beautiful, smart, wise children, with one already out of college and on the way to success, and the other graduating in a year. We both work with above average incomes, own several pieces of property, and still go on family vacations together when all our schedules can work.
Sounds great, huh? Well as the old adage goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
I have been contemplating separation/divorce for a year now, and I'm at the point I know in my heart, as bad as it may sound, I am not in love with my wife any longer.
The number one reason for me is that there is 0.0% sex in our relationship. I have tried too many time to be the pursuer, i.e.: romantic dinners, weekend get a way's, etc., with getting back nothing at all. No, I don't have ED, and everything works fine down there. Additionally, I have tried my best to stay in shape, have tried to encourage her to join me, but she refuses to participate and has let herself go by gaining weight, and never wanting to do anything with me. 
Other issues that have become more of a routine with our marriage is the constant disagreements on finances. As mentioned above, we earn a good living. I don't get it. Sometimes I think it's because of a control issue she wants in our relationship. Who knows?
With all that said, and I could say more, I am pretty sure it is over. I do not want to try couples therapy because I know I'm not interested. 
I believe the conclusion I've made is that our relationship is beyond repair, and I don't want to spend the rest of my days on this planet in a miserable relationship with someone I do not love. One of my biggest concerns with this decision is how our kids will look at me as being the one who wanted the divorce? Will they hate me? That would crush me.
There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.

So there you have it. You can throw stones at me, agree or disagree with my thoughts. As mentioned above, I'm looking for advise. Please chime in.....


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

Well I can say I know how you feel. From the start of our problems I tried to do anything and everything to romance her and make her feel special, but nothing worked. For the past almost 2 years now I have been trying, for the last 2 months or so though I've been working more on myself and my relationship with our young son more then the relationship. Things have become more civil, but it's still not a marriage, she just doesn't want to seem to make an effort towards anything. And lately I've been asking myself the same question, Is it all worth it? I do love her but I'm not sure if I'm in love with her anymore, I mean how can you really be in love with someone who dismisses everything you say or do and withdraw every time there's an argument. It's a really crappy feeling but I think my patience to see if she comes around is almost done.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

thelitewentoff said:


> Just joined this forum to maybe get some advice, suggestions and/or feedback from people in similar a situation as mine.
> My wife and I have been married for 28 years, both in our early 50's, raised two beautiful, smart, wise children, with one already out of college and on the way to success, and the other graduating in a year. We both work with above average incomes, own several pieces of property, and still go on family vacations together when all our schedules can work.
> Sounds great, huh? Well as the old adage goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
> I have been contemplating separation/divorce for a year now, and I'm at the point I know in my heart, as bad as it may sound, I am not in love with my wife any longer.
> ...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sadly, your problem is all too common, and rarely has a happy ending. I was in the same situation, and tried everything, including marriage counseling and everything else imaginable (romantic gestures, getting in shape, etc.) - nothing made any difference for more than a week or two. I tried individual therapy, and came to the conclusion that it was her, not me, and that nothing would change. I left very shortly after that, and never looked back (except for our son). Yes, there is always one more thing you can try - there's no shortage of ideas. At some point you have to decide that another failure isn't worth the effort, and even if you succeed at long last, the reward is likely to be pale shadow of what you truly want.

My life has been immeasurably better ever since. Even the stress of actually separating and divorcing was less than the daily stress of living in a loveless, sexless marriage. I had hope again; I had a future of my own making to look forward to.


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## thelitewentoff (Mar 29, 2017)

@Jessica38, In all fairness, I only mentioned I've been considering the option of divorce over the last year, however our marriage has not been all that great for several years now. As a matter of fact, I came close to divorcing her 7 years ago because of the same issues we are having now, but didn't for the sake of our children. It has been exhausting for me to get her involved with anything, and I have tried. And now too tired to try anymore.

You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.

I agree 100% with the first part of your statement, but not so much your last sentence.
Why is it that you think it is me who needs to "put in the serious effort"? I have made every effort to salvage our marriage, made compromises, suggested counseling(she refused), been the good/faithful husband/father, and in return I get promises that are made on her part, only too soon to be broken, and she goes back to the same routine.

And then there's this comment: I said: There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.
You said: Are you sure? There is no female friend who's providing a listening ear?

I didn't join this forum to become a target of accusations of members on here. I've never cheated on my wife and wouldn't discuss my personal dirty laundry to anyone I know, female or male. Anyone who does that is a fool. (aka loose lips sink ships). I joined this forum in anonymity to find help with a difficult decision I am facing from others who have experienced similar circumstances, and to gain some knowledge on what to expect.

I appreciate your comments and the time you took to respond to my post. I'll check out the book you referred to as well for another point of view.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

thelitewentoff said:


> The number one reason for me is that there is 0.0% sex in our relationship. I have tried too many time to be the pursuer, i.e.: romantic dinners, weekend get a way's, etc., with getting back nothing at all.





thelitewentoff said:


> Additionally, I have tried my best to stay in shape, have tried to encourage her to join me, but she refuses to participate and has let herself go by gaining weight, and never wanting to do anything with me.





thelitewentoff said:


> I don't want to spend the rest of my days on this planet in a miserable relationship with someone I do not love.





thelitewentoff said:


> Please chime in.....


You're gonna get a lot of women who come on here and blame you. They will tell YOU to "try harder" or that you "are shallow" and "marriage is deeper than sex."

BULLCRAP.

Your "wife" needs to PUT SOME DAMN EFFORT into YOU. You've done enough from what I've read. No sex? Giving up on putting in effort? She's BEGGING you for a divorce.

OBLIGE HER.

Take it from me first hand friend. Plenty of women your age would be FALLING OVER themselves for a guy like you. Stop eating McDonald's when steak is waiting for you.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

thelitewentoff said:


> So there you have it. You can throw stones at me, agree or disagree with my thoughts. As mentioned above, I'm looking for advise. Please chime in.....


It appears that you have made up your mind. Are you looking for disagreement or for someone to tell you what you're doing is okay? What kind of advice are you looking for? How to tell your wife it's over? How to tell the kids? What to expect in a divorce?

Most often people in your situation have an interest in someone of the opposite sex who is serving as a catalyst to ending the marriage. That's why you were asked if you have someone in mind. It's not an accusation. It was just a simple question so people have a clear understanding of your situation. 

If you are wanting to know if it's okay to divorce your wife for being unconcerned about your needs and not participating in having an emotionally and physically intimate relationship with you, I would say that you have good reason to be considering divorce.

First off, it's important to understand what your rights and responsibilities will be in a divorce. Buy a book on divorce in your state, read it thoroughly, and then you will be ready to make some decisions.

When you are ready to tell your wife, sit her down in a quiet location with no listening ears and tell her that you are filing for divorce. Give her the book you bought and tell her to read it so she understands what is going to happen and so you both know what is fair and reasonable. She might not read it, but at least you gave her the option. You are not asking for a divorce. You are telling her that you two are getting divorced. If she asks why, tell her that you already told her that you are unhappy and as she did nothing to help resolve your marriage issues you are done being married to her. If she offers to make changes, tell her she said that before and that's why you are now getting a divorce. She didn't follow through, so her time is up.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Jessica38 said:


> Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
> Just joined this forum to maybe get some advice, suggestions and/or feedback from people in similar a situation as mine.
> My wife and I have been married for 28 years, both in our early 50's, raised two beautiful, smart, wise children, with one already out of college and on the way to success, and the other graduating in a year. We both work with above average incomes, own several pieces of property, and still go on family vacations together when all our schedules can work.
> Sounds great, huh? Well as the old adage goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
> ...


This is awesome advice.[/SARCASM] 

Why should the husband make all the effort to persuade the wife to love him again? Presumably if it doesn't work then he must just try harder?

Why must he lead her into a more fulfilling marriage? A marriage is supposed to be a partnership between two people, they are both equally responsible for the relationship and both equally responsible for meeting the others wants and needs.

"Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them." - in a perfect world maybe but that is not reality, either for women or men. There are many who have no interest in staying in shape for or having any form of intimate relationship with their partners. 

The situation can only be turned around if both partners want to turn it around. You seem to put all the blame for the problems and responsibility for fixing them on to the husband. One person can't fix a relationship.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

One thing to consider, you're going to get crucified in the divorce. Go to a lawyer and look at some actual numbers but you can expect to only get 30% of everything. If you want to live off of that go for it. I'm in a similar situation but can't get divorced because I wouldn't be able to live on my share of the settlement.


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## thelitewentoff (Mar 29, 2017)

CynthiaDe said:


> It appears that you have made up your mind. Are you looking for disagreement or for someone to tell you what you're doing is okay? What kind of advice are you looking for? How to tell your wife it's over? How to tell the kids? What to expect in a divorce?
> 
> All of the above!
> CynthiaDe, Thanks for actually reading my post and not reading between the lines
> ...


Great advice on the book and also giving it to her to read as well. I didn't think of that.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Sorry to hear where you find yourself. All too common. You definitely have "cause" for divorcing your wife. Your choice whether to act on it immediately.

You might give her one last chance. Offer to counsel with the Harleys. Or go to a Retrouvaille weekend. Or go to the Gottman Instititute. She can pick. Tell her if she does none of them, you are filing for divorce. See how she reacts. Have a date in your mind when you will file if she does not work at reconciling. Do not tell her the date you picked.

Definitely see a lawyer. Finances will be a setback because savings will be halved. But sounds like you are comfortable and can manage. Much easier to contemplate with the kids out of the jhouse and not having to worry about custody or some other guy raising your kids. There is a reason that Grey Divorce is such a big thing these days.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

thelitewentoff said:


> Great advice on the book and also giving it to her to read as well. I didn't think of that.


She's not going to read the book, she's going to keep doing what she's been doing, being a refuser, and expect to get away with it. She's going to emerge after the divorce a rich woman with practically all of your money. I bet she already knows this. She's been to a lawyer and been told she's going to do just fine.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I agree she won't read the book, but it's the thought that counts. Start off with an attitude of working together on this and it could make her feel a lot more comfortable feeling like you are not hiding anything from her, but want to get this resolved quickly and fairly for both of you.

I don't think she is going to end up with practically all your money either. It will be an equitable split if you are well prepared. There are plenty of women that get the raw end of the deal in divorce as well. Just make sure you read about this before you listen to anything an attorney tells you. I've seen too many attorneys take people's money and not do a damn thing they were paid for. Not all attorneys are like this, but the system is corrupt. The more you know, the better off you are paying an attorney to do only what you tell them to do.


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## thelitewentoff (Mar 29, 2017)

jb02157 said:


> One thing to consider, you're going to get crucified in the divorce. Go to a lawyer and look at some actual numbers but you can expect to only get 30% of everything. If you want to live off of that go for it. I'm in a similar situation but can't get divorced because I wouldn't be able to live on my share of the settlement.


30% sounds like a pretty low figure. My state is 50/50, AFAIK.
I'm a self made man. Been through some hard times, financially speaking in the past, but have always been able to rebound, and have been able to provide for my family.
Even if it is 50/50, happiness is more important to me than the money, just so I keep my sanity. Besides, she was there for 28 years too. The last thing I want to do is go through a messy divorce with spending a ton of money in the process.
Why do you expect only 30%?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

thelitewentoff said:


> @Jessica38, In all fairness, I only mentioned I've been considering the option of divorce over the last year, however our marriage has not been all that great for several years now. As a matter of fact, I came close to divorcing her 7 years ago because of the same issues we are having now, but didn't for the sake of our children. It has been exhausting for me to get her involved with anything, and I have tried. And now too tired to try anymore.
> 
> This is because she's not in love with you either.
> 
> ...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

thelitewentoff said:


> @Jessica38, In all fairness, I only mentioned I've been considering the option of divorce over the last year, however our marriage has not been all that great for several years now. As a matter of fact, I came close to divorcing her 7 years ago because of the same issues we are having now, but didn't for the sake of our children. It has been exhausting for me to get her involved with anything, and I have tried. And now too tired to try anymore.
> 
> You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either.* Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. *This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.
> 
> ...


In bold, sir, I 100% agree. My W and I are the total opposite end of the spectrum comparing to your situation. Our kids are all but out of the house and on their own. My W and I work out together. We do things together all the time. We screw like rabbits. The kids being independent has been FREEING. We do as we wish and on any piece of furniture that we want! Reading your first post I would be looking to for a better future than what you have written about your current marriage. 

I don't blame you for looking to split amicably. It takes both to make it work for each. Love, admiration, and respect make willing participants in a marriage. When I mean participation I mean in all things. 

Concerning the kids, each are grown adults. They may not like it but they will certainly understand. 

Only you can make you happy. 

Good luck.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

thelitewentoff said:


> 30% sounds like a pretty low figure. My state is 50/50, AFAIK.
> I'm a self made man. Been through some hard times, financially speaking in the past, but have always been able to rebound, and have been able to provide for my family.
> Even if it is 50/50, happiness is more important to me than the money, just so I keep my sanity. Besides, she was there for 28 years too. The last thing I want to do is go through a messy divorce with spending a ton of money in the process.
> Why do you expect only 30%?


It most definitely isn't going to be 50/50. I have been told by MANY lawyers there are ways that women get up to 70% and almost always do. If she fights this even half way vigorously, which she probable will do, that's what she'll get. I've been researching this for years and have paid thousands to lawyers and I know what I'm talking about, trust me if there was a way I could leave my marriage and afford an apartment I would have already done it years ago. However, I'm not going to get divorced and leave myself poor. I'm self-made to, nobody gave me a damned thing my whole life and that's part of the reason I'm not going to let a divorce make me poor. If you do decide to get divorced it WILL be messy and you are going to spend a ton of money defending yourself. Courts don't take kindly to men in their 50's who want to divorce their wives.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

50-50 is pretty standard in a divorce. She might ask for and get awarded alimony, and that could account for greater than 50%. But she might not qualify for it either, especially if she's working and making an approximately equal income as you. Personally, if you are sure you want a divorce then go meet with a lawyer and file. Your kids are old enough to ask and expect for the truth from you, so be prepared to be honest with them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

thelitewentoff said:


> Just joined this forum to maybe get some advice, suggestions and/or feedback from people in similar a situation as mine.
> My wife and I have been married for 28 years, both in our early 50's, raised two beautiful, smart, wise children, with one already out of college and on the way to success, and the other graduating in a year. We both work with above average incomes, own several pieces of property, and still go on family vacations together when all our schedules can work.
> Sounds great, huh? Well as the old adage goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
> I have been contemplating separation/divorce for a year now, and I'm at the point I know in my heart, as bad as it may sound, I am not in love with my wife any longer.
> ...


No its not beyond repair if you are both wiling to work at things, compromise and get some good marriage counseling. 
Your children and probably your wife will be devastated, as will the wider family. You may even loose the relationship you have with the children when they see how much you are hurting their mum. Older children will often take sides. You are giving you wife no chance at all to try and change things. Just springing this on her is very cruel. You need to communicate with her about how desperate you feel about your issues and that things are so bad that you are even thinking of ending the marriage. 

A marriage isn't something to throw away like a piece of rubbish, you made vows and promises, so be man enough to keep them and at least give it a year of real effort and counseling before you take the easy way out. You owe you wife and children that much.


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## bikermehound (Mar 24, 2017)

thelitewentoff said:


> @Jessica38, In all fairness, I only mentioned I've been considering the option of divorce over the last year, however our marriage has not been all that great for several years now. As a matter of fact, I came close to divorcing her 7 years ago because of the same issues we are having now, but didn't for the sake of our children. It has been exhausting for me to get her involved with anything, and I have tried. And now too tired to try anymore.
> 
> You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.
> 
> ...


Let me now how u make out iam in same boat


Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Yeswecan said:


> In bold, sir, I 100% agree. My W and I are the total opposite end of the spectrum comparing to your situation. Our kids are all but out of the house and on their own. My W and I work out together. We do things together all the time. We screw like rabbits. The kids being independent has been FREEING. We do as we wish and on any piece of furniture that we want! Reading your first post I would be looking to for a better future than what you have written about your current marriage.
> 
> I don't blame you for looking to split amicably. It takes both to make it work for each. Love, admiration, and respect make willing participants in a marriage. When I mean participation I mean in all things.
> 
> ...


Adult children are just as devastated by their parents divorcing as younger ones, especially if they had no idea anything is wrong. I dont think they will understand, what they will see is their dad abandoning their mum and in effect them as well.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> You're gonna get a lot of women who come on here and blame you. They will tell YOU to "try harder" or that you "are shallow" and "marriage is deeper than sex.


I won’t tell him that because I have been in the exact same situation with the genders reversed.

@Jessica38 … some of us do not act like monkeys swinging from branch-to-branch needing a “new branch” before letting go of the old one. And, OP does *not *have a marriage to “throw away” rather he has a financial living arrangement, you know a _roommate_.

OP, only you know what you have done in an effort to improve yourself and your marriage over the years. There is no “magic other” remedy to try that you have not thought of … BTW, I came to TAM originally looking for the same thing. You cannot change her, force her to go to MC or keep her promises. You only have control of yourself. And, the only way to recover a broken marriage is if *both *partners want to do the work required. You cannot do it by yourself.

Like you I stayed in a sexless marriage for my child and then left once she was in university and doing well on her own. I also slowly lost any romantic love I had for my exH. It’s to be expected because love does not thrive without being nurtured. If I, as a woman, cannot maintain love and connection with my partner inside a sexual desert then I certainly do not expect that a man can do it … especially not in the long term. Think about this: your wife (and my exH) knew what we needed, knew the agony we endured and, simply didn’t care enough to do anything about it or even compromise. That is not love; that is selfishness in the extreme.

Your obligation to your family is over and your wife clearly does not want to participate in a true marriage. You get to decide now what type of life you want to have and ignore anyone who tries to guilt you for it.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Adult children are just as devastated by their parents divorcing as younger ones, especially if they had no idea anything is wrong. I dont think they will understand, what they will see is their dad abandoning their mum and in effect them as well.


Not always and, not if they know the truth of the situation. My daughter was over-joyed when I left her father.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

jb02157 said:


> One thing to consider, you're going to get crucified in the divorce. Go to a lawyer and look at some actual numbers but you can expect to only get 30% of everything. If you want to live off of that go for it. I'm in a similar situation but can't get divorced because I wouldn't be able to live on my share of the settlement.


No, it's a 50/50 split in most jurisdictions.

I've seen your back posts @jb02157, you're afraid to divorce because you have an unrealistic view of the legal system and perhaps not enough money to live on your own regardless of how things get divied up. Anyway, divorce is bad but not that bad - especially if the split is amicable-, and when there are no minor children both parties are on relatively even footing although if he's the breadwinner (it's not specified in his post that I can see) he may be paying spousal support for a while unless he can build it into the settlement, but that's not always a good idea because she can always blow through it and then go back for more.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Adult children are just as devastated by their parents divorcing as younger ones.


Um.. no.

Adult children have their own family and support systems in place, they are much more emotionally and physically mature than children, they probably aren't even living under the same ROOF as their parents, and as a result, they are not NEARLY as affected as a young child will be when their parents split up.


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## thelitewentoff (Mar 29, 2017)

My kids are both in their 20's and I am sure they will be devastated. With that said, they are both adults, and unfortunately have witnessed the ugliness of our strained marriage. 
I do not know how much of a surprise it will be to them. As mentioned earlier, 7 years ago divorce was being considered. 
At that time, they were old enough to understand what was going on, even though they were in only their teens. 
If we have the discussion concerning divorce today, I think they will handle it better, just because they have grown up.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Red Sonja said:


> I won’t tell him that because I have been in the exact same situation with the genders reversed.
> 
> @Jessica38 … some of us do not act like monkeys swinging from branch-to-branch needing a “new branch” before letting go of the old one. And, OP does *not *have a marriage to “throw away” rather he has a financial living arrangement, you know a _roommate_.
> 
> ...


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## thelitewentoff (Mar 29, 2017)

@Red Sonja,
I'm glad you posted these comments.(below) A woman's point of view who understands! 
The word "roommate" has been thrown around a few times in my home.
I'm surprised you picked up on that

OP does not have a marriage to “throw away” rather he has a financial living arrangement, you know a roommate.

OP, only you know what you have done in an effort to improve yourself and your marriage over the years. There is no “magic other” remedy to try that you have not thought of … BTW, I came to TAM originally looking for the same thing. You cannot change her, force her to go to MC or keep her promises. You only have control of yourself. And, the only way to recover a broken marriage is if both partners want to do the work required. You cannot do it by yourself

If I, as a woman, cannot maintain love and connection with my partner inside a sexual desert then I certainly do not expect that a man can do it … especially not in the long term. Think about this: your wife (and my exH) knew what we needed, knew the agony we endured and, simply didn’t care enough to do anything about it or even compromise. That is not love; that is selfishness in the extreme.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The lite did not go out.

The lite came on. You see the light. Get a divorce. Find a partner that suits your purpose, and you, hers.

We come this way but once.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
by Bob Proctor

We come this way but once.
We can either tiptoe through life
and hope we get to death without being badly bruised
or we can live a full, complete life achieving
our goals and realizing our wildest dreams.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

My best friend had this epithet as his email heading.

"I only come this way once.
When I die, I hope they put my battered and bruised body in my
Coffin in a heap. Not laid out stiff and proper.
Because that is the way that I lived, and that is the way that
I should die and be buried." 


He died at the age of 58, his brains smashed against the tarmac.

The winds at ground level were 30 knots.
His parachute landed him sideways. And it thumped him up and 
down a half dozen times before the ground crew could leap on top
of him and keep him still and the air pulled out from the wayward chute.

I landed a 1/4 mile away from the drop zone. The wind took me away
and made me a rag doll suspended by 30 lines to my T-10D.

By the time I hiked to the inverted "L" he was hauled off to the hospital.
He was dead within the hour. 

He got his wish in life.
In death, his very long and large form would not fit in a standard coffin.
They laid him out straight and proper. 

That was a very sad day for me.
For him, he died as he lived.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For you OP, get yourself free. Treat your wife with great respect but leave her.
Leave her straight and proper.
That is the way that she lived.
You cannot change that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thelitewentoff said:


> You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.
> 
> I agree 100% with the first part of your statement, but not so much your last sentence.
> Why is it that you think it is me who needs to "put in the serious effort"? I have made every effort to salvage our marriage, made compromises, suggested counseling(she refused), been the good/faithful husband/father, and in return I get promises that are made on her part, only too soon to be broken, and she goes back to the same routine.


The reason she said that you would have to put in the effort is because you are the one who is here. Since your wife is not here, we cannot talk to her. People here might be suggesting things for you to try. However, in the end it would have to be both of you putting in the effort.

Have you sat your wife down and told her that you are seriously thinking of divorce and why?

How many hours a week of quality time do you and your wife spend together, just the two. That means with no children, friends or family?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thelitewentoff said:


> 30% sounds like a pretty low figure. My state is 50/50, AFAIK.
> I'm a self made man. Been through some hard times, financially speaking in the past, but have always been able to rebound, and have been able to provide for my family.
> Even if it is 50/50, happiness is more important to me than the money, just so I keep my sanity. Besides, she was there for 28 years too. The last thing I want to do is go through a messy divorce with spending a ton of money in the process.
> Why do you expect only 30%?


You need to realize that some people here on TAM are bitter about their own situation. So they spread that around sometimes.

Your split will most likely be 50/50. Illinois is an equitable distribution state, not a community property state. So they start with a 50/50 distribution. Then the lawyers for either party can introduce arguments on why 50/50 is not equitable in their particular case. And the out come is dependent on a lot of factors.

However, in our case, since both of you make good incomes, your distribution is most likely to be 50/50. But this is why you need to read a book that covers divorce law in our state and maybe even do some on-line searches on the topic.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

thelitewentoff said:


> @Red Sonja,
> *I'm glad you posted these comments.(below) A woman's point of view who understands! *
> 
> The word "roommate" has been thrown around a few times in my home.
> ...


I'm not sure why you think women (or most women) would not pick up on what you said and not understand your point of view. Its a bit of a put-down of women really. I'm not sure why the woman bashing is going on here on this thread. There is no reason at all for that.

I, like many other women here on TAM, were in marriages similar to yours, maybe even worse: sexless, a husband who did not want to spend any time with me, and so forth. Shoot add to that a husband who spent every waking moment of ten (10) years playing computer games and surfing the web. All this while I was the bread winner and raised my son and his children.

I get it. Most women on TAM get it. Shoot most women would understand that what you are dealing with is not a marriage worth keeping.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

It sounds like you have tried everything you could, and she has not responded in kind. Life is short you need to do what makes you happy, yes the kids will be devastated but they are grown and will one day realize you deserve happiness too.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

thelitewentoff said:


> My kids are both in their 20's and I am sure they will be devastated. With that said, they are both adults, and unfortunately have witnessed the ugliness of our strained marriage.
> I do not know how much of a surprise it will be to them. As mentioned earlier, *7 years ago divorce was being considered. *
> At that time, they were old enough to understand what was going on, even though they were in only their teens.
> If we have the discussion concerning divorce today, I think they will handle it better, just because they have grown up.


Thats what talk gets you. Nothing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Red Sonja said:


> Not always and, not if they know the truth of the situation. My daughter was over-joyed when I left her father.


It depends on the situation. If one spouse is very abusive for example, or has been a serial cheat, that may be the case, but mostly kids just want their parents to stay together.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Lostme said:


> It sounds like you have tried everything you could, and she has not responded in kind. Life is short you need to do what makes you happy, yes the kids will be devastated but they are grown and will one day realize you deserve happiness too.


I was reading an article the other day about adult children whose parents divorced, and how deeply it affected and hurt them. Just because they are just about into adulthood, that doesn't mean they wont be devastated.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

JB: Depends on the state. And depends on relative earnings.

Sounds like OP makes not so much more than his wife, who works and makes a good income. That is very different than where the man earns 90%+ of the combined income and wife has been SAHM for many years. In my state, with a breadwinner and a SAHM who divorce after 20+ years, the wife gets permanent lifetime alimony. But sounds like OP would get close to 50% split.

The hard part comes with closely-held business. Easy to divvy things up if both spouses are employees who make W-2 income. If you own a business report on Schedule C and income varies greatly year to year, can be very hard to agree on what the business is worth or how much alimony the business owner can afford to pay. If main support came from owning / licensing a bunch of Blockbuster video stores, and you got divorced in the late 1990s or early 2000s, you probably ended up wiped out when they lost all their value a few years later.


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## thelitewentoff (Mar 29, 2017)

@EleGirl, I am sorry if you feel I was making a broad stroke comment against you, or other women on this forum. 
If that was the impression, it wasn't meant to be a put-down or a charge against women, but just my observation of how the term "roommate" was used in a post by another member here, and it sort of caught my attention. Also, because that is how my situation feels, and the word had been used during heated discussions with my wife in the past. 
I was more surprised that having a "roommate marriage" must be more of a common situation/problem in some marriages for women and men than I previously thought.
Thanks again for your response.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

Discussing financial implications of someone else situation on this thread is a thread jack. I have cleaned up several posts. Please take the discussion to the appropriate thread. Continuing to do so will result in a 48 hour time out.

Now back to the OP.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Adult children are just as devastated by their parents divorcing as younger ones, especially if they had no idea anything is wrong. I dont think they will understand, what they will see is their dad abandoning their mum and in effect them as well.


We do not know if the adult children are unaware of the problems. OP did state an attempt to divorce was made years ago if I'm not mistaken. Where the children aware at that time? 

As a young child I could sense with ease when my parents were at odds. Especially the day my mother threw her wedding band into the garbage disposal. As an adult, I would not have been devastated if my parents split. Sad? Yes. Not devastated as past history shows unresolved issues in the marriage. However, my parents did stay together and had a wonderful life despite the ground up wedding band in the garbage disposal.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

thelitewentoff said:


> @EleGirl, I am sorry if you feel I was making a broad stroke comment against you, or other women on this forum.
> If that was the impression, it wasn't meant to be a put-down or a charge against women, but just my observation of how the term "roommate" was used in a post by another member here, and it sort of caught my attention. Also, because that is how my situation feels, and the word had been used during heated discussions with my wife in the past.
> I was more surprised that having a "roommate marriage" must be more of a common situation/problem in some marriages for women and men than I previously thought.
> Thanks again for your response.


It is a roommate marriage is quite common. I was there once. Did not realize it. Perhaps your W does not either.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

What consequences have you given her? People rarely change. You are part of the problem too. We'd have to talk to her to get her point of view, but she resents you and doesn't want to be intimate with you, thus the weight gain. She gained the weight so you don't find her attractive with the ultimate goal of avoiding sex with you. 

Just divorce her. Life is too short to be stuck in a loveless and miserable marriage. I was there too. 100% sexless for the last 4 years of the 8 year marriage. Lost half my "crap" and still rebuilding. It's just money, can always make more. I have young kids (2 under 7yrs) and that's what kept me in it so long. I'm 16 months since separation, and 10 months since divorce finalized. I'm the happiest I've ever been. Even engaged and buying a house with the woman of my dreams. We have sex at least once a day. It's amazing being with someone that desires you.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

It is just as likely the kids will be relieved as it is they will be "devastated", especially since they already know things aren't right. Mine were. Do not make this decision based on them - make it for yourself. Dump the cold dead fish and find LIFE again. What are you going to lose ? Sounds to me like nothing that is important and you have lots to gain.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

thelitewentoff said:


> I have made every effort to salvage our marriage, made compromises, suggested counseling(she refused)...


In this and other TAM stories, this is always the part that irks me the most. OP has made a good-faith effort to save the marriage, only to be met with intransigence. She's had ample warning, but I expect she'll be "surprised" when OP again raises the subject of divorce.

If the marriage is no longer important to her, and no longer important to you, then it's time to move on. The kids will be fine. She thought you were bluffing last time, so make sure she understands that things are real this time around, if you think there is still any chance of saving the marriage.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

stixx said:


> No, it's a 50/50 split in most jurisdictions.
> 
> I've seen your back posts @jb02157, you're afraid to divorce because you have an unrealistic view of the legal system and perhaps not enough money to live on your own regardless of how things get divied up. Anyway, divorce is bad but not that bad - especially if the split is amicable-, and when there are no minor children both parties are on relatively even footing although if he's the breadwinner (it's not specified in his post that I can see) he may be paying spousal support for a while unless he can build it into the settlement, but that's not always a good idea because she can always blow through it and then go back for more.


I tried to explain that I'm not afraid of divorce but my posts were deleted. What I have posted was based on facts from divorce lawyers. I didn't make any of it up. Sorry.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Sadly, the roommate situation is quite common in marriages after so many years. But it can be turned around- it just takes work on BOTH sides and a plan that works.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

jb02157 said:


> I tried to explain that I'm not afraid of divorce but my posts were deleted. What I have posted was based on facts from divorce lawyers. I didn't make any of it up. Sorry.


Ok let me rephrase. You are not afraid of divorce.

You have an expectation that getting divorced will destroy you financially.

I don't know your specific financials but I can tell you that generally speaking, the outcome of divorce is a gray area with extremes, and you are picturing the absolute worst case scenario and supplementing that picture you've created in your mind with many questionable and just plain wrong "facts" that you say you got from years of research and thousands of dollars worth of attorney consultations.

What's worse is that you continue to spread such nonsense all over these boards which will be read by many individuals considering divorce.

I've already pointed out several blatent errors- social security benefits received by the ex spouse do not in ANY way affect the benefits received by the primary account holder and health insurance is rarely if ever required to be paid by the breadwinning spouse after a divorce is final. Those are just 2 examples of many "facts" you have posted that are just plain WRONG along with your statement that "the woman usually gets 70% of everything even though it's supposed to be a 50/50 split".


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Jessica38 said:


> Sadly, the roommate situation is quite common in marriages after so many years. But it can be turned around- it just takes work on BOTH sides and a plan that works.



Quoted for truth! It can be turned around.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

stixx said:


> Ok let me rephrase. You are not afraid of divorce.
> 
> You have an expectation that getting divorced will destroy you financially.
> 
> ...


What ev's. I'm done posting about this and fighting with you. What you said is plain wrong. I'll have my lawyers back me up on whatever I said. I think what is really tragic is that the people reading these boards will have completely wrong information if they read your posts.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

jb02157 said:


> What ev's. I'm done posting about this and fighting with you. What you said is plain wrong. I'll have my lawyers back me up on whatever I said. I think what is really tragic is that the people reading these boards will have completely wrong information if they read your posts.


You said that there are additional costs in divorce that make it more of a 70/30 split and one of those costs is social security benefits.

You are wrong, and here's a definitive source:

From the Federal Social Security website

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/divspouse.html

*Note: The amount of benefits you get has no effect on the amount of benefits your ex-spouse or their current spouse may receive.*

As to the second issue, you are again, wrong and here's a definitive source. 

From here:

http://dadsdivorce.com/articles/covering-your-wifes-health-insurance-during-and-after-divorce/

*However, maintaining health insurance after a Judgment of Divorce is filed does not always require a party to maintain health insurance on another party.*



jb02157 said:


> I've been researching this for years and have paid thousands to lawyers and I know what I'm talking about, trust me if there was a way I could leave my marriage and afford an apartment I would have already done it years ago.


 @jb02157 You've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on divorce attorneys and you haven't even filed for divorce?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Jessica38 said:


> Sadly, the roommate situation is quite common in marriages after so many years. But it can be turned around- it just takes work on BOTH sides and a plan that works.


Yes, problem being it appears only ONE person has been making the effort in this case. And now they feel done.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> Yes, problem being it appears only ONE person has been making the effort in this case. And now they feel done.


If that's the case, then it is the OP's choice to move on and file, obviously. But he posted here and my point is that there are couples in the same situation who were able to turn it around. There are successful plans out there that do not include thousands of hours and $$$ in MC rehashing the same stuff. I actually didn't know that myself until learning more about a year ago. Marriage Builders is a program that actually has turned this situation around for many couples. There are others for sure, but that one offers a plan that has successfully worked. If the OP doesn't want to try it, I get it. But he's worried about his kids, and in that case, it seems reason enough to try a plan.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

when your done your done. and no amount of effort can turn it around.

I say get the ball rolling. and file already. and be happy to be rid of her.


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