# Alone, and Lost, and Done



## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

So here’s my story…..
Married for 16 yrs. 4 kids….16, 11, 6, and 3. Me – 40. H – 37.

I’ve been in a “done” state of mind for the last year. I started IC in May and we started MC in July. H was shocked at my “doneness” and feels like it came out of left field. 

I started IC because if felt like I was losing myself. I didn’t know who or what I was anymore. I felt like my life was just about being a working mom 24/7. I feel like I have no self worth, like I have nothing to contribute to anything. I’ve been working on becoming myself again, but everyone around me sees it as I’m doing a 180 or some kind of midlife crisis! I don’t feel like that. I feel like I am FINALLY being ME after 16 years of just going through the motions of married life with kids. Or IDK…maybe it is a midlife crisis!? Lol…

I have supported H for several years while he went back to school and got his degree. Doing the single parent thing…living in ****ty places and sharing one car. We have come a long way from when we first got married, but in doing so, I feel like we have grown apart instead of having a stronger marital bond.

When I expressed my feelings, for the umpteenth time (let me go back and say that while I tend to bottle things up, I have never had a problem telling H my feelings, so most of the things I was dealing with I had previously told him…he just didn’t “hear” me), to my husband, he asked if I was up for MC. Of course I am/was. We have 16 years vested in us….why would I not want to try??! So we went. I think he had the impression that this was going to be all about me and wanted to put in back in my face that this was all on me to fix. Well….as we talked he finally saw that the things he was doing/not doing was what caused all this turmoil. Taking me for granted, putting everything and everyone first – before me, not communicating with me about anything…..family visits, his work obligations, church obligations, etc, treating me like one of the kids or one of his employees, not listening to anything I have to say, not putting any value on any suggestions or ideas I have….you get the idea.

So we started doing our homework of spending 5 minutes (or more) each night talking. Many hurtful things were said, but in the end our communication did improve. We both felt like we could finally say any and everything to each other without the other one taking immediate offense. He is finally hearing me after all these years. I have said many times that I am done and want out and how I am trying to forget all the neglect of the past. He’s trying, as in he realizes that he has treated me like an ass for all these years. I most days fell like it’s a little too late… Things I’ve suggested we do to rebuild our relationship in the past, like weekly lunch dates and scheduled date nights, are now a super fantabulous idea because he thinks it is and the counselor told us to do them. 

We had a horrible dry sexual spell for several years, that I 100% believe was due to bc pills. I’ve been off the pill for 3+ years and that aspect has greatly improved. For about a year I was just using sex a release for me and had no emotional connection to H. I know that was not healthy and have since expressed this feeling to H. I feel like I have no emotional connection to H anymore. I don’t feel anything when we kiss and that hurts both of us… I keep trying and wanting to fell something, but I don’t. Sex is currently great as in its more frequent, but like I’ve said...no feelings. I hate feeling like this.

I feel so lost and alone in this relationship. I’m not happy. I don’t know what else to do. How do I get the feelings back? How long do we keep at it? My whole being tells me daily that it’s just done…move on and find happiness…which is a scary thought. Other times, I tell myself, just suck it up and fake it till you make it….. Who needs happiness anyway??

Thanks for reading… I’m sure I’ve left something out….


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I understand how you feel. I went thru that a few years ago. I left my exciting job at my husband's request (sick son, I was losing my mind when my mum died) to stay home. I lost myself. My job was my identity and suddenly I had nothing. My husband was out saving the world, friends and family. I needed to make an appointment to see him. He was too busy helping everyone but me. So, I had to tell him 2 weeks in advance when I needed him to do something with. Those were the days. Looking back, my husband said he was so stupid, he could not understand why he was away so much. We rarely spoke and sex was a few times a year. 

One day, I was really sick and asked him to get my meds before he left. I got such a bad reaction, I thought I was going to died. He took 5 hours to return. I told him, we were done. He can have the house, I will take my kids and move out. He begged, our 6 years old D was yelling at him about him being a bad daddy. How we work thru it, I don't know.

All I know is that he started to make us his priority. We started dating again, with two kids in tow. They wanted to go on dates too. We started talking, looking at each other. Holding hands. We started showing affection; hugs, kisses, teasing etc.
We found tantric sex. We started doing things as a family. Just us four.

In the meantime, I had to find my self. I had no name. I was my children's mum, my husband's wife but there was no me. My husband called my love, babe etc but not my name. I was lost. So, I ask them to call me my name. I know it sounds stupid but when, I heard my name, it like hearing that I still am here.

I started reading, finding things I would enjoy doing and did them. I took up crafting. I took a class in making glass beads. I learned aromatherapy. I started doing things I always wanted to do. Take time for myself. 

I realized that I didn't sing in the shower anymore, that was so strange, I can't forget that. It's crazy how you lose yourself all in the name of raising a family. 

I think you have to find you again. Whoever you used to be and want to be again. Start singing. Go for walks and leave them all behind. Take a vacation to a tropical island and relax. 

Start thinking of the man you've date and marry. Try to find that man again in your husband. I read a book years ago, can't remember the name, and the author wrote of doing a mantra. "I love my life, I love this man, I am happy". You can substitute this for anything. Just repeat it over and over. Let it become your truth.

You want to give it your best shot. So, that way if it does not work out, you will have no regrets. Because those darn kids love to blame us for any changes to their lives. 

Try finding that girl or a newer version of her in your self CJB. Give it a shot, when you cant take it anymore, then you know the time is right. In the mean time, who knows, maybe things will change. You will see things differently. Happiness is important, we only have this one life. Try to find yours again. I wish you happiness, love and laughter.

Ann


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

5 minutes each night set aside for talking? It is recommended no less than 16 hours per week with just you two. Dinner date. Movie night. Or just chilling on the back deck together. No interruptions. Yes, it is tough with kids and life but both need to make that time together no matter what. H needs to make you number one over all. No argument here. Sex is a very important part of connection. It is apparent you recognize this and hopefully can fix that portion of the marriage.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Thank you so much, Ann. I totally get what you mean by being called by your name and not nicknames or pet names. 

It's so hard to find things I can do for me....One...4 kids.... and two...H is super controlling. I can hardly breathe alone without being asked "What are you doing?" "Why do you need to breathe?" "Can't you breathe with me attached to your hip?" 

He has said as much that he is jealous of everything I do without him...which is currently nothing.. 

We just had a "lunch date" and it was very very awkward and unnerving. He wouldn't talk to me or look at me. He said a very coldly "Thanks for lunch" and then I just drove away. I have no idea what that's about. I didn't want to get into it at the restaurant so I sent him a text saying how awkward that was and we need to talk about that tonight...but I might have used a few choice harsh words.... :\


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Since we weren't speaking AT ALL, the MC suggested we start with 5 minutes each night until we got comfortable with talking...which sounds really stupid because we have been married for 16 years, but it was kinda uncomfortable to get started.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> Since we weren't speaking AT ALL, the MC suggested we start with 5 minutes each night until we got comfortable with talking...which sounds really stupid because we have been married for 16 years, but it was kinda uncomfortable to get started.


I agree...that sounds stupid. I'm getting the impression you are all-in if your H is going to put forth an effort to be all-in. It does not appear your H is all in(lousy lunch date). This will not work if it is one-sided.

I also get the impression your H does not appreciate you? If he does it does not expressed to you? You are just another chore for your H? Another mouth to feed type deal?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> I agree...that sounds stupid. I'm getting the impression you are all-in if your H is going to put forth an effort to be all-in. It does not appear your H is all in(lousy lunch date). This will not work if it is one-sided.
> 
> I also get the impression your H does not appreciate you? If he does it does not expressed to you? You are just another chore for your H? Another mouth to feed type deal?


He says he loves me and wants to work on this because "He can't live in this world without me", but honestly I don't know where I stand with him. He has since MC started trying to put me first and make me feel appreciated, but - to me - it feels really forced. 

It's hard to get past the past. 

IC told me to write down the positives I see in H, but other than he cooks for all of us...I can't think of a single thing...lame. I've put up such a mental block for so long that it's taken a toll on my emotions/feelings for him. I don't know how to get that back...


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Leave him with the kids. Tell him straight up, I am going for a walk and you are staying with the kids. Then, pick up and go. Turn off your head and don't think of him and the kids. Just do you. He will learn. If not then, there will be no you.

My husband was not a talker. He had a stony look on his face always. The kids used to think he was unhappy or mad. It's just was his training and he did not know how to turn it off. So, I ask him about stuff on the news, told him things I read, or was working on. I asked his opinion on things, I didn't even cared about. Just to get him to talk. We talk about the kids. 

You have to now reestablish your connection. That will take time and practice. Be careful of your body posture when speaking with him, keep your arms at your side. Relax your muscles. Smile even, when you want to scream. Be gentle in your tone. Don't accuse. You are taming a beast. 

Maybe, he is hurting and cant understand why is she so crazy now. Why aren't you happy? He thought you were and suddenly, you have the ability to take everything away from him. He is also, lost and confused. He most likely wants everything back the way they used to be. And he is resentful that you want to find happiness and love. Wasn't he giving you all this? Why didn't you speak up sooner? So, he has his stuff to work thru as well. 

All I can say is be kind in your words and actions toward him. Keep talking about anything and everything. Hold his hand, even, for a moment. Then, next time 2 moments. Rub his shoulders, give him a little kiss. It's like you have to woo him all over again. Do it all with the intention, that this action I am taking, will give me happiness and make him happy too. Sometimes, our selflessness brings more happiness. Do it because it will make you happy.

I know at the end of the day, its like you are doing more and giving more, however, if you see this as your last shot. Then, it would't hurt to try just little more. Keep your chin up and put on your headphones and sing to yourself. Who cares if you are making noise.:smile2:


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> He says he loves me and wants to work on this because "He can't live in this world without me", but honestly I don't know where I stand with him. He has since MC started trying to put me first and make me feel appreciated, but - to me - it feels really forced.
> 
> It's hard to get past the past.
> 
> IC told me to write down the positives I see in H, but other than he cooks for all of us...I can't think of a single thing...lame. I've put up such a mental block for so long that it's taken a toll on my emotions/feelings for him. I don't know how to get that back...


CJB, one can not completely change overnight. Perhaps your H will gradually get the idea that putting your first, appreciate you and understand that at the end of the day if anyone in this world would be standing there with him it will be you. Once your H get's this through his thick head will an entire new world open up for him. 

I was much like your H. 20 years for me to figure it out. I too, made my marriage a mission. Showed my love by providing for home, food and utilities. Great dad. These things I am/was all of. However, my W felt *very* much like you. It took me to realize were I was screwing up(W told me many times. I ignored. After all, I was providing right?). I found this out reading this site. There was a major part of my marriage that I left on autopilot for years. Thankfully my W was steadfast and kept at it with me. Once I got a grasp that making my W first, planning dates, day trips, opening the door for her and turned up the heat in the bedroom(basically treating my W as she should be) did my entire world change for the absolute better. After 20 years of me being me it took some time but now I enjoy it everyday. Our marriage is on a entirely new level. And I would like to add, our connection has never been as close as we are now. 

It appears your H has a lot to learn concerning this portion of your marriage. I certainly did.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Thank you all for your advice! I'm trying, but also tired of trying...

I know I have a bad attitude about getting the emotions back because I fell like why bother anymore... It's seriously hard for me to feel compassion and understanding for him anymore. 

We talked last night about how I felt that it seemed like neither of us was trying much lately. We had his family (parents and grandparents) at our house this past weekend and he was upset because I wasn't the pretty little 1950's housewife...by his side....doting on him. Uh....yeah...that's never gonna happen especially with our current situation. I told him this and he knows this is not my personality. I said I was very uncomfortable with them here and I cannot fake happy couple. So I busied myself with decoration for Halloween with my little boys. In visiting with his grandmother, I found out that he had invited more of her family to our house...she thanked me for the invite that was extended to her family....I was kinda dumbfounded and just kind of played it off. I had NO idea that he did that. I told him how that made me feel and how this is the kinda thing that he did/does and I am tired of it. He SWEARS (like always) that he talked with me or told me about it, but he NEVER does or NEVER has! It's soooooo frustrating!!!

We have MC tomorrow and I know it's not going to be pretty. 

Most days I fantasize about my life without him and while it makes me very nervous, it also makes me feel happy and content. When he is not home, with either being at work or whatever...it's so nice and peaceful....I hate feeling this way...BUT it's what I feel....


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

This happens to so many people; not feeling appreciated and overwhelmed with all of the responsibilities of a family and the kids. It is easy to become lost and wonder where the heck did I go?!? Keep up with the MC and say what you need to in those appointments. You need to be as honest as you can about how you feel and hopefully your husband will be too.

Let me ask you when you are fantasizing about your life without him and you feel happy and content; are you thinking that thought with another man in mind? A particular man or just an overall sense of relief about getting away from it all?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

5Creed said:


> This happens to so many people; not feeling appreciated and overwhelmed with all of the responsibilities of a family and the kids. It is easy to become lost and wonder where the heck did I go?!? Keep up with the MC and say what you need to in those appointments. You need to be as honest as you can about how you feel and hopefully your husband will be too.
> 
> Let me ask you when you are fantasizing about your life without him and you feel happy and content; are you thinking that thought with another man in mind? A particular man or just an overall sense of relief about getting away from it all?


Thank you.....I think I'm being honest and open in MC...I know it's hurtful on both sides, but it has to all be said to get passed it all.

No way....No other man in mind....Just peace of being alone with myself!


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

Yes; you have to be brutally honest and get to the real problems in MC or it is just a waste of time. It will be hurtful but to work on your marriage, you both need to let it all out.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> Thank you all for your advice! I'm trying, but also tired of trying...*(understandable) *
> 
> I know I have a bad attitude about getting the emotions back because I fell like why bother anymore... It's seriously hard for me to feel compassion and understanding for him anymore. *(because you tire of trying. It's like swimming up stream. No matter how fast you try to swim you never beat the current. It gets old.) *
> 
> ...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Oh, and good luck with the MC. I am pro-marriage to a point(some crap I will not tolerate at all) and I always hope each in the marriage recognizes the good qualities both possess. And the focus is on those good qualities. However, for the bad portions/qualities that both possess, each are willing to work on it for the betterment of the marriage. But again, both need to make it work so it can work. How to do that? Drop the defensive attitudes. Be honest with your feelings. Forthright with answers to the hard questions.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You are in a done state because your husband is not meeting your emotional needs.

There is a very good chance your feelings will return once your husband starts meeting your emotional needs.

Inside your marriage counseling, you two should be working on how he can meet your needs and how you can meet his needs.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

brooklynAnn said:


> Leave him with the kids. Tell him straight up, I am going for a walk and you are staying with the kids. Then, pick up and go. Turn off your head and don't think of him and the kids. Just do you. He will learn. If not then, there will be no you.


I agree with this. You have to start valuing yourself. I'm kind of in the same boat, and that last 15 or so years of our marriage (35 years) has, for me, been all about sneaking in little attempts to treat myself, since he won't do it. It's the only way I've stayed sane. Let him be a real dad and be 100% responsible for them at least for 2-3 hours a week. My H, too, didn't want me doing anything else but be with him and for the first 20 years, I did that. So when I started going to IC, the one thing she had me try to do was just to tell him 'I'm going to the mall Saturday morning to go window shopping' (so he couldn't blame me for wasting his money); I never could get the courage to just do it. So sad.

Ten years later, I finally found my courage and strength. Leaving the kids with him once a week will do a couple things. It will reinvigorate you and make you feel better about yourself, and it will give him a glimpse into what your day to day life is like, so he'll have more respect for you.

If he doesn't talk well, it will be hard for him to start opening up again, so have some patience. Don't just disrupt your kids' lives because you're fed up, not when things are finally changing.

And get the book His Needs Her Needs. Start reading it together and talking about it. Do the questionnaires that come with it so you can re-learn about each other; it's key.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CatJayBird said:


> TWe had his family (parents and grandparents) at our house this past weekend and he was upset because I wasn't the pretty little 1950's housewife...by his side....doting on him. Uh....yeah...that's never gonna happen especially with our current situation. I told him this and he knows this is not my personality. I said I was very uncomfortable with them here and I cannot fake happy couple. So I busied myself with decoration for Halloween with my little boys. In visiting with his grandmother, I found out that he had invited more of her family to our house...she thanked me for the invite that was extended to her family....I was kinda dumbfounded and just kind of played it off. I had NO idea that he did that. I told him how that made me feel and how this is the kinda thing that he did/does and I am tired of it. He SWEARS (like always) that he talked with me or told me about it, but he NEVER does or NEVER has! It's soooooo frustrating!!!


He was raised to be a Pleaser for his family; it's VERY hard for him to upset them, and he gets 'love' from them (in his mind) only if he steps up for them. Doesn't make him a bad person, just makes him a slave to his upbringing. 

You think life will be peaceful without him? With that many kids? That you have to be 100% responsible for? Come on. Let's be a little more realistic, ok? You're fantasizing about some life that won't occur. I get it, I do - I fantasize about living alone all the time; but I know when I do that, I'm purposely not thinking about hanging things, moving furniture, changing oil, fixing a stranded car, standing up to sneaky salespeople...there are a million things he does that you've conveniently forgotten about because your resentment is so strong. But they'll still need to be done, whether he's there or not. And he won't hang around after you divorce him and do it all for you.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

I've previously mentioned in MC how done I am and wanting out. I will be certain to let it be known again today. Thanks!


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Oh, and good luck with the MC. I am pro-marriage to a point(some crap I will not tolerate at all) and I always hope each in the marriage recognizes the good qualities both possess. And the focus is on those good qualities. However, for the bad portions/qualities that both possess, each are willing to work on it for the betterment of the marriage. But again, both need to make it work so it can work. How to do that? Drop the defensive attitudes. Be honest with your feelings. Forthright with answers to the hard questions.


Thank you. I've tried really hard to be open and responsive, but those damn defense mechanisms creep back in. And I am 100% forthright with everything I've said in IC, MC, and in just talking with H.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Hicks said:


> You are in a done state because your husband is not meeting your emotional needs.
> 
> There is a very good chance your feelings will return once your husband starts meeting your emotional needs.
> 
> Inside your marriage counseling, you two should be working on how he can meet your needs and how you can meet his needs.


On one hand, I really really want him/us to accomplish this, but on the other hand, I just wish he would see how we are both miserable and also be done. :\


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> I've previously mentioned in MC how done I am and wanting out. I will be certain to let it be known again today. Thanks!


Actions will speak louder. If you begin to prepare for other place to live and start packing some things it will become real to your H. You are willing to lose the marriage to save.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> I agree with this. You have to start valuing yourself. I'm kind of in the same boat, and that last 15 or so years of our marriage (35 years) has, for me, been all about sneaking in little attempts to treat myself, since he won't do it. It's the only way I've stayed sane. Let him be a real dad and be 100% responsible for them at least for 2-3 hours a week. My H, too, didn't want me doing anything else but be with him and for the first 20 years, I did that. So when I started going to IC, the one thing she had me try to do was just to tell him 'I'm going to the mall Saturday morning to go window shopping' (so he couldn't blame me for wasting his money); I never could get the courage to just do it. So sad.
> 
> Ten years later, I finally found my courage and strength. Leaving the kids with him once a week will do a couple things. It will reinvigorate you and make you feel better about yourself, and it will give him a glimpse into what your day to day life is like, so he'll have more respect for you.
> 
> ...


I will certainly get that book. I've started reading "Getting the love you want"....not that far into it yet. The kids...yes...that is why I haven't just blown up and said F-it...Bye Felicia!

I mostly haven't done anything for/by myself because of the guilt trip I get. I would rather just be miserable than have to deal with that mess. BUT....I will try. Thank you!


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> He was raised to be a Pleaser for his family; it's VERY hard for him to upset them, and he gets 'love' from them (in his mind) only if he steps up for them. Doesn't make him a bad person, just makes him a slave to his upbringing.
> 
> You think life will be peaceful without him? With that many kids? That you have to be 100% responsible for? Come on. Let's be a little more realistic, ok? You're fantasizing about some life that won't occur. I get it, I do - I fantasize about living alone all the time; but I know when I do that, I'm purposely not thinking about hanging things, moving furniture, changing oil, fixing a stranded car, standing up to sneaky salespeople...there are a million things he does that you've conveniently forgotten about because your resentment is so strong. But they'll still need to be done, whether he's there or not. And he won't hang around after you divorce him and do it all for you.


He was very much so....also a place and time to be seen and heard. 

And yes I know how hard it would be to have 4 kids alone, with working and school, and homework, and house/car upkeep. I was raised by a single mom, so I know how to do all these things and seen how hard it is. I have thought about ALL that...I know it won't be easy. I'm not *that* delusional....yet! lol


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> Thank you. I've tried really hard to be open and responsive, but those damn defense mechanisms creep back in. And I am 100% forthright with everything I've said in IC, MC, and in just talking with H.


Oh it's tough really opening up. I understand completely. Took me 21 years to really open up to my W, turn autopilot off on the marriage and really do the things I have not been doing. That is meeting my W emotional needs. I did everything else with no issues. Good dad and provided for the family. As far as my W emotional needs...I sucked at it. She stayed the course, prayed and cried a few nights alone in the bathroom. I finally figured it out. As a result, my W gets my undivided attention and any/all needs met. Our marriage very re-invigorated. Which is good as our daughters are in college and my W and I have a lot of time to start "dating" again. It's a blast!

I hope your and you H can reach each other and bring your marriage to a new level.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Oh it's tough really opening up. I understand completely. Took me 21 years to really open up to my W, turn autopilot off on the marriage and really do the things I have not been doing. That is meeting my W emotional needs. I did everything else with no issues. Good dad and provided for the family. As far as my W emotional needs...I sucked at it. She stayed the course, prayed and cried a few nights alone in the bathroom. I finally figured it out. As a result, my W gets my undivided attention and any/all needs met. Our marriage very re-invigorated. Which is good as our daughters are in college and my W and I have a lot of time to start "dating" again. It's a blast!
> 
> I hope your and you H can reach each other and bring your marriage to a new level.


That's awesome!! 

I hope so as well.....and I'm trying to be hopeful through my clouded vision. With our youngest being 3...we have a LOOOOOOONG time until we don't have to take care of someone 24/7. 

Thanks for the encouragement!


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

My daughter told me, she read an article about what women with young kids fantasize about. It's seems we all would love a bedroom with white sheets, no telephone, husband or kids. Where we can do what we want and eat what we want.(not talking about another man)

When, my kids were younger, I would get up before everyone. Make myself a pot of tea and my book. I would drink tea and read a few pages, that, way I have some time for me. I still do this today. It's little things like this, that, keeps you sane.

You have to be able to take sometime for yourself. If you don't recharge yourself, how can you able to be a wife and mother to all those needy souls. You cant give what you don't have. 

My my MIL comes over, I stay in my room. She can spend time with the kids and husband, I spent time with me. There is only so much I can take with her. My husband knows this. She knows this and feels for me the same way. We are honest like that.

Tell your husband he has to put you guys first. Then, everyone else. If he makes plans with family without you, call them and cancel. You have other plans that husband forgot about. 

When he gets mad, don't take his angry. Let him know in no uncertain term how you feel. You make your opinions known in a clear manner. Don't get emotional at this time. Don't get angry. Make your statement and stop. Don't say anything more. Give him time to digest this. When he is calm, then, he may approach you to have a discussion.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> That's awesome!!
> 
> I hope so as well.....and I'm trying to be hopeful through my clouded vision. With our youngest being 3...we have a LOOOOOOONG time until we don't have to take care of someone 24/7.
> 
> Thanks for the encouragement!


I would like to add one more thing...many put their kids first. Seem admirable and the right thing to do. However, we often see a disconnect between H and W as a result. Dad provides. Mom cares for kids. That's the rolls right? The third roll is missing. Care for each other. The fact of the matter is H and W come first. Seems odd but, if H and W come first the marriage is happy and stable. Kids thrive in happy and stable. Not discontentment and disconnect. I grant you, marriage is a lot of work. But, it can be the most fulfilling if handled with care.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh, and if your H invites his family over without telling you, smile, give him a kiss, tell him to have fun, and that you're going to go out. Walk around the mall, go eat by yourself, call up a friend to meet you for coffee, whatever. Let HIM take care of any events that he sets up without first asking you. That's an important way to start reclaiming your identity. Will he guilt you? I'm sure he'll try. But only YOU can allow yourself to be guilted.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I wish you good luck. I am in similar situation to brooklynAnn, working on the marriage. I felt like you, had akward dates with my husbands, and fantasizing about life without him. That was scary and very happy thought. Our issue was that he had been verbally abusive, - not all the time, but enought. Yelling, name calling, pouting, etc.

I said D word first time back in December. Things improved for few months, but then went back to old normal. After another blow out, I was done. Adn that's when he really got scared. SEt up MC for us, and we went. The first several sessions were just nasty. I was having tension headache starting in the morning on the days of the MC. But after a while we started going for a drink after each session. Then we started weekly dates. Ways of communications open up, it was like someone used big plunger and let most of the s..t out. 

It is not easy, it takes work, but things are much better now. I am enjoying those dates, we have good sex again. It would be easier to go and start new relationship without twenty years of baggage, but children are still young, and they are happy now. So, maybe this will never be my dream marriage again, but I won't be miserable either. 
you have to decide if this is a path for you, or you are really done with this man. Whatever you decide, you need to be strong. Good luck.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

MC completely sucked today... I'm feeling more discouraged than ever before. 

Today was the first time our counselor brought up the subject of living together miserably is not good for the kids. 

As we were walking to our cars, he stopped at his and I was going to say bye and whatever, and he demands "You can't leave me!" 

I can't deal with me and us and him and the kids!!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

That does not sound promising . We were doing Emotionally Focused Therapy, EFT - where the focus is on emotions and feelings, not looking for who is guilty. Maybe you shoudl try that for a change?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> That does not sound promising . We were doing Emotionally Focused Therapy, EFT - where the focus is on emotions and feelings, not looking for who is guilty. Maybe you shoudl try that for a change?


I have never heard of that. I'll look into it. 

Thanks


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

CJB, your husband is now in panic mode. He does not know what to do.
If a stranger would ask, he would say he is doing everything to make you happy. And yet, you are not happy. He does not know what to do.

He sees his life unfolding in front of him and does not have the tools or awareness to stop it. 

You both need to start talking a lot more. If you cant sit and talk, start writing letters and give it to him. Ask him to give you his replies in writing. Tell him what you see happening to your marriage over the years. Ask him questions about how he feels about these issues. Don't write long letters. 1/2 a page should be ok for now. 

Don't give up and lose hope now. He sounds like a nice guy, who wants to make everyone happy. He is just not doing it the right way.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I would also, like to add the following:

I think sometimes our husbands can do all the things we require but we are still not happy. As such, we have to understand that happiness comes from with us. It's seems like you have lost your ability to find your happiness. Maybe, he will give you everything you wanted and at the end, you realize that you are still not happy.

So, start finding out what will makes you happy. (not the white room and no husband) Start doing each day, something for you. Don't let anyone get in the way of this. 

What used to make you happy before the husband and kids? Let's start from there.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

It's been so long...I don't even know what makes me happy anymore. Especially things that don't involve the kids. My IC keeps pushing me to do things for myself.

I've done two things lately (for me) that are also some cause of discord between H and me. I've been wanting to get a tattoo covered up...so I did and a sh*tstorm erupted. I also got a new piercing which I've been thinking about for awhile. I never did either of these things before because I knew how much H would judge and basically guilt me into not doing. I'm trying to find myself and these two things were key points for me.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Just keep trying to find those small things. You have to build yourself up too. We were individuals before h and kids. Now a days when I find my self in the dumps, I try reading a book on spirituality(not religion). I put on an audio book and listen. Sometimes, I listen to the same book over and over again. Or at some time later, I re-listen to it. Because it makes sense and it gives me a different point of view or direction.

Here are some in my library:

A Thousand Names for Joy- Byron Katie
Teaching on Love- Thich Nhat Hanh
A Course in Miracles- 
The Last Lecture- Randy Pucsch
How to see yourself as you really Are- Dalai Lama
Kabbalah Works: Secrets for a Purposeful Life
Four Pathways to Success- Dyane Dwyer
The Four Agreements- Miguel Ruiz
The Art of Mindful Living- Thich Nhat Hanh
Anything from Marianne Williamson- she does the course in miracles.

These are a few of the light ones. My favorites are a Thousand Names for joy and the four agreements. I always go back to these. When I lose faith, I listen to a course in miracles. 

Take care of yourself, so you can take care of others. Have a great evening. Remember you are the embodiment of love, happiness and joy. You just have to find it. It's still in you.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

The phrase "I can't live in this world without you" is selfish and wrong. It's all about him. It is meant to guilt you into staying. He has no clue how to give to you as a human being, a wife, if he say things like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

After we got home Friday night we talked A LOT! I told him that I am still trying to get the emotional feelings back for him. I told him that I'm not sure I can give him anything other than friendship right now. I told him some of the things he said in MC earlier in the day really really hurt me because it had to do with how he perceived me with our kids...and even though he now sees that it was an incorrect perception, it's still hard for me to ignore that that was his initial feeling and it was so strong that he felt compelled to say it. We have never before brought the kids situation into our hurtful words. He said if friendship was all I could offer, then he'll take it. I said how is that fair to either one of us to just be friends/roommates with benefits?? 

I have IC in a few and I feel kinda numb about going...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You simply MUST go. It's the only way you'll ever achieve peace and happiness. Let the professionals help you. Remember that it's the MC's job to help BOTH of you get what you want, but it's your IC's job to make sure YOU are taken care of.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> MC completely sucked today... I'm feeling more discouraged than ever before.
> 
> *Today was the first time our counselor brought up the subject of living together miserably is not good for the kids. *
> 
> ...


I pointed out much the same a few posts back. Stable home and parental relationship allows kids to thrive. Spouse first. 

For your H demands to be met then some things will need to change. Is your H aware of these needed changes?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> It's been so long...I don't even know what makes me happy anymore. Especially things that don't involve the kids. My IC keeps pushing me to do things for myself. *And the IC is correct as well as brooklynann has stated. Only you can make you happy. *
> 
> I've done two things lately (for me) that are also some cause of discord between H and me. I've been wanting to get a tattoo covered up...so I did and a sh*tstorm erupted. Well, that is silly to have a sh!t storm about. I also got a new piercing which I've been thinking about for awhile. I never did either of these things before because I knew how much H would judge and basically guilt me into not doing. I'm trying to find myself and these two things were key points for me. *And you should do them without guilt if you ask me.*


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> After we got home Friday night we talked A LOT! I told him that I am still trying to get the emotional feelings back for him. I told him that I'm not sure I can give him anything other than friendship right now. I told him some of the things he said in MC earlier in the day really really hurt me because it had to do with how he perceived me with our kids...and even though he now sees that it was an incorrect perception, it's still hard for me to ignore that that was his initial feeling and it was so strong that he felt compelled to say it. We have never before brought the kids situation into our hurtful words. He said if friendship was all I could offer, then he'll take it. I said how is that fair to either one of us to just be friends/roommates with benefits??
> 
> I have IC in a few and I feel kinda numb about going...



How does your H perceive you with your kids?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> You simply MUST go. It's the only way you'll ever achieve peace and happiness. Let the professionals help you. Remember that it's the MC's job to help BOTH of you get what you want, but it's your IC's job to make sure YOU are taken care of.


Oh..I went. She told me I needed to start talking to H with action words/sentences instead of "I feel....". He's not getting it...I said I feel like and idiot for keeping bringing up stuff that we've beat into the ground, but he's not getting it at all!

The finding me part is proving to be a challenge...


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Is he making negative comments on your parenting style or how you parent?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> I pointed out much the same a few posts back. Stable home and parental relationship allows kids to thrive. Spouse first.
> 
> For your H demands to be met then some things will need to change. Is your H aware of these needed changes?



I know you have...so have my IRL friends and coworkers. I was just stating this is the first time anything of the sort was mentioned in MC.

I have told him over and over and over again..what I feel is missing and what I think we/he/me need to change.... I don't think he gets it.....


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> How does your H perceive you with your kids?


This was his example of how he perceives me and my interaction with the kids:

"When I'm not home and come home after being gone awhile (1,2,3 hrs)..this is what I walk in to...Her (me) on our bed watching TV, daughter in her room on her phone, oldest son in his room on the computer, and the two little boys playing together. All separate...doing their own things alone. No one is engaging each other!"

He said that I do not engage the kids enough because he walks in and sees this....

I responded with...."Am I doing folding laundry on the bed while the TV is on? How do you know that maybe the littlest boy didn't just wake up from his nap and is having some quiet time with his brother? How do you know we just didn't have an extremely loud dance party in the living room? How do you know that we didn't just come in from being outside and are cooling off and enjoying some downtime? You didn't ask what we have been doing, you just assumed!"

Then he says.."Well...I know you can feed them and keep them safe.."

WTF, dude........


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

My husband used to call all day long to find out if I fed the kids. One day I told him no. I have no intention of feeding them and if he wanted them to have food, he should come home and do it. That was the end of that. Ass.

Tell him if this bother him, then, he should play with the kids. He should spend more time with them and less with his larger family. He is a fool, who is looking for excuses.

I agree with Yeswecan, in marriages you have to put each other first. Keep talking with the intention of understanding where the other person is coming from. Tell him how his actions affect you. I agree with the IC using too many "i feels" makes him stop listening. Like oh she is needy again. 

Seems like you are talking more. Which is good.

Do you work outside the house? Or are you with the kids all day?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> My husband used to call all day long to find out if I fed the kids. One day I told him no. I have no intention of feeding them and if he wanted them to have food, he should come home and do it. That was the end of that. Ass.
> 
> Tell him if this bother him, then, he should play with the kids. He should spend more time with them and less with his larger family. He is a fool, who is looking for excuses.
> 
> ...



lol...I like that kind of sarcasm.

I work outside the home. We both have full time/OT jobs.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I don't think most men understand that a working mother has three jobs. The one she gets paid for. The housekeeper and the parent. 

Does he help around the house when he gets home? Cook, clean or play with the kids?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CatJayBird said:


> He says he loves me and wants to work on this because "He can't live in this world without me", but honestly I don't know where I stand with him. He has since MC started trying to put me first and make me feel appreciated, but - to me - it feels really forced.


Sometime a person has to fake it until they make it. It might be forced right now because he's trying to teach himself a new way to behave. If you keep responding positively when he does something positive, he will continue doing it.

What we feed is what grows.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CatJayBird said:


> We just had a "lunch date" and it was very very awkward and unnerving. He wouldn't talk to me or look at me. He said a very coldly "Thanks for lunch" and then I just drove away. I have no idea what that's about. I didn't want to get into it at the restaurant so I sent him a text saying how awkward that was and we need to talk about that tonight...but I might have used a few choice harsh words.... :\


When you say that he would not talk to you, what does that mean?

Does it mean that you brought up subjects and he just would not respond to you? If so, what were the topics you brought up?


Or does it mean that the two of you could not think of anything to talk about?

This distinction is very important.


.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> When you say that he would not talk to you, what does that mean?
> 
> Does it mean that you brought up subjects and he just would not respond to you? If so, what were the topics you brought up?
> 
> ...


He wouldn't respond to anything I brought up....kids, work, what was playing on the TV, the other patrons, funny text exchange with coworkers I had the night before...


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> I don't think most men understand that a working mother has three jobs. The one she gets paid for. The housekeeper and the parent.
> 
> Does he help around the house when he gets home? Cook, clean or play with the kids?


He does. He actually is the cooker in our household.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

CatJayBird said:


> He wouldn't respond to anything I brought up....kids, work, what was playing on the TV, the other patrons, funny text exchange with coworkers I had the night before...


Does he act like this often?

Did the two of you talk about the lunch and why he did not respond to you?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you started to read the book "His Needs, Her Needs"?


.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Does he act like this often?
> 
> Did the two of you talk about the lunch and why he did not respond to you?


Yes...he's a cold shoulder kinda person. I told him that lunch was effing awkward. He said he should have cancelled. He said he didn't want to "start" anything in "that restaurant".


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Have you started to read the book "His Needs, Her Needs"?
> 
> 
> .


Not yet. I download this one and 5 love languages on both of our e-readers. I also have "getting the love you want", which I started, but stopped because I started 5 love languages


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CatJayBird said:


> I have told him over and over and over again..what I feel is missing and what I think we/he/me need to change.... I don't think he gets it.....


I spent DECADES telling my H what I needed in the marriage. He sympathized...and did none of it. I FINALLY got him to MC upon threat of divorce after 30 years, he went, he nodded his head...and did none of it.

It wasn't until I chewed the therapist out (after he'd started missing appointments until he had just stopped going) for not fixing our problems, and she said 'T, this was never about making him change; you can't make him change; this has always ever been about YOU learning what YOU will tolerate and then TAKING STEPS to protect yourself if you don't get it. Stop spinning your wheels to make him be what you want. Make your own boundaries, explain them to him, and when he crosses them, put your consequences into action. He'll figure it out soon enough.'

Your H will listen to you complain for the next 50 years if you let him; doesn't mean he has to - or will - ACT on those complaints.

Find your boundaries and your consequences, and simply start living by them.

It really does work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CatJayBird said:


> This was his example of how he perceives me and my interaction with the kids:
> 
> "When I'm not home and come home after being gone awhile (1,2,3 hrs)..this is what I walk in to...Her (me) on our bed watching TV, daughter in her room on her phone, oldest son in his room on the computer, and the two little boys playing together. All separate...doing their own things alone. No one is engaging each other!"


Ok, T/J here, and I'm going to try to not sound as pompous as this really sounds, but...

First, does he see this A LOT? As in, every other day he comes home and you're all in different rooms on your different electronics? Or was it just a one-time occasion?

Second, if it was NOT just a one-time occasion - and understand that I get you work full-time and time is limited and you need a break or need to multitask - may I ask if you have time limits on your childrens' use of electronics? 

I'm sure you're not old enough to remember what it was like when TV only had 3 channels, before shows could be recorded, before computers/cell phones/internet/video games were invented, but there WAS life before electronics. And we did just fine. I'd even hazard to guess better. Because back then, we talked to each other. We made up stories. We played games. The whole family would find things to do together like go for walks or play a sport or hang out with other kids or make forts in the woods or....

The point is, each of your kids being in a separate room in the house - unless it was a one-time deal and unless it's for a SMALL amount of time - is not all that healthy for your family. Or your kids.

God knows I pushed my kid off enough times when I just needed a break, so I get it. But you can come up with ways to minimize the damage, bring the family together, and help them learn healthier ways to get through life than just staring at a screen. Alone.

When DD25 was in elementary school, she was allowed half an hour on electronics a day. The rest of the time, she was free to read, draw, color, play outside, or ask me to play with her. In junior high, she was allowed an hour, her choice of tv/computer/games. In high school, I didn't really push a limit because by then she'd learned not to depend on electronics and also because she was so busy with schoolwork. On the weekends, those limits were doubled.

I'm just suggesting that if this is a common occurrence, you have the power to make them not so dependent on electronics. And that he just might have a legitimate concern.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

CatJayBird said:


> So here’s my story…..
> Married for 16 yrs. 4 kids….16, 11, 6, and 3. Me – 40. H – 37.
> 
> I’ve been in a “done” state of mind for the last year. I started IC in May and we started MC in July. H was shocked at my “doneness” and feels like it came out of left field.
> ...


I stopped reading after this. What's the point? These WAW's scripts are all the same. You mean to tell me you're raising four beautiful children who consider you half their WORLD (dad's the other half) literally, shaping them into the grown ups they will become and doing your part to support them financially as well as emotionally and you feel like you're not contributing to anything?!? 

It's tragic how many people take what they have for granted. I wonder what the kids take on this is? They are probably as clueless as your husband proclaims too be. I'm sure you have a laundry list of grips against your hubby who you probably blame for everything. I'll bet he has one too except he's learned to be okay with who you are but you, for whatever reasons you've rationalized to yourself, are not okay with him.

Just divorce him then. That way you can "find yourself" and travel to Paris and have a lustful romance with a street peddler named Jacque or whatever it is you think you need to do to "be you" again. It will feel GREAT for a time. Then one day, maybe in a few years, you'll snap out of it realize you want your family whole again and it will be too late.

In all seriousness, I'm sure your complaints are legitimate and I'm sure his are too. Are you willing to FIGHT to make it work or not? Telling him "umpteenth times" is a cop out. What have you DONE? Have you made plans for dates? Getaways? Who cares if he's the man you have free will don't you? Have you tried to be romantic? Seductive? Understanding of him? Sometimes setting the example or getting the ball rolling is ALL it takes. Fire off a random naughty text... See what happens. Unless he's a complete a$$ I'll bet he reciprocates.

What do you have to lose? Isn't better than posting on the internet about potentially destroying your family and six lives in the process?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BetrayedDad said:


> They are probably as clueless as your husband proclaims too be. I'm sure you have a laundry list of grips against your hubby who you probably blame for everything. I'll bet he has one too except he's learned to be okay with who you are but you, for whatever reasons you've rationalized to yourself, are not okay with him.


Just had to share this. So, my H FINALLY is up in the attic yesterday fixing a 12-year-old leak from the roof that's had our ceiling falling in since then. No amount of asking or mentioning or griping made him care to fix it (and I sure didn't know how to fix it, and he wouldn't approve paying someone else). So about a month ago, he joined a band as the sound engineer. They practice upstairs right where the ceiling's falling in. Suddenly, he cares about fixing it. Whatever. At least he's finally fixing it.

So, since he's up in the attic all day, I go ahead and weed-eat and edge the lawn, in addition to all the cleaning I've been doing, so he doesn't have to do it. You know, since he's finally doing something I've asked him to do for 12 years. 

I go to pull the lawn mower out of the garage (up on the side ledge and through the tiny garage door, and back down the door ledge, since the actual garage door has been broken for the last 8 years), and the back wheel isn't moving. So when he gets down from the attic, I ask him to look at it, since I know that whenever something breaks, I get blamed for it.. So he looks at it, gripes about it, asks me if I 'dragged the mower through the garage,' insinuating that it was my fault it was broken, even though I never mow any more (stopped when he would criticize my 'quality' of mowing).

Anyway, he gets it working, I do the rest of the work to clean up, and then he feels like he has to gripe about how hard it was, mowing with a bad wheel (I guess he only halfway fixed it). So we get into an argument and he doesn't understand why I'm upset that he's going on about how hard HIS life is when I'm doing all this extra stuff to make his life easier, especially since he's finally doing something I've been asking for for 12 years, and then he feels entitled to make ME feel bad and halfway, kinda sorta blame me for it.

And then, here's the kicker (and the reason I posted this), he says 'what, and you don't complain when you have to do hard work?'

Flabbergasted, I just said 'no. no, I do not. When have you EVER heard me complain in 35 years about work I have to do? Compaining makes YOU feel bad and it's not my intention to make you feel bad; it's my intention to make YOUR life better.' 

It's like it never occurred to him that I would avoid complaining to make him feel better.

Hopefully it gave him a wakeup all about how you put your partner first.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

First, in my nine years of marriage I never had my exwife mow the lawn much less do any "outside " work. Ever. Mowing, raking, shoveling, planting, watering regularly, etc. etc. and my lawns not small. If something is far easier for you to do physically then why would you have the other person struggle to do it? I'll never get that but whatever. Of course, she also complained that I didn't help enough in the house because I didn't do HALF. I guess "outside" doesn't count. Anyway......

In his mind, you asking him to do something for 12 years (nagging) which to him is the equivalent of complaining. Men tune women out we agree. I've done it myself but you were still picking on him. Whether it was "fix the roof" or "this is hard work" is splitting hairs. He just heard you nagging/complaining about SOMETHING and it drove him nuts.

Obviously, I'm just speculating. If I may, if it bothered you for that long wouldn't of it have been far easier to tell him 12 years ago to fix it by X date or I'm calling someone? Wouldn't that have been a much better approach? Then one way or another it ceases to become an issue, by his hand or another's.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Ok....I'll come back and respond, but first what is WAW? And ouch....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WAW = walk away wife

Here is a good article on it.

Get Relationship Advice and Solve Marriage Problems with Michele Weiner-Davis - Divorce Busting®


Some people think that WAW means a woman who just decides one day to dump a wonderful husband for no good reason. That's hardly what the WAW syndrome is.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BetrayedDad said:


> First, in my nine years of marriage I never had my exwife mow the lawn much less do any "outside " work. Ever. Mowing, raking, shoveling, planting, watering regularly, etc. etc. and my lawns not small. If something is far easier for you to do physically then why would you have the other person struggle to do it? I'll never get that but whatever.


He has always expected me to help in everything - cars, lawn, building...I just thought that was what wives did to help their husbands, so I did.



BetrayedDad said:


> In his mind, you asking him to do something for 12 years (nagging) which to him is the equivalent of complaining.


To be clear, I've asked him to fix it exactly twice in 12 years.



BetrayedDad said:


> Obviously, I'm just speculating. If I may, if it bothered you for that long wouldn't of it have been far easier to tell him 12 years ago to fix it by X date or I'm calling someone? Wouldn't that have been a much better approach? Then one way or another it ceases to become an issue, by his hand or another's.


Yeah, if we had a normal equal relationship, that would have been an option. We didn't, so it wasn't. Leave it at that. And by the time I finally went to therapy and she told me to do what you suggest, was about the time I realized he had us $80,000 in debt and I took over the bills and I've been trying to save every penny we earn since then to pay down the debt. And I gave up trying to get him to do anything I ask for years ago. In fact, I told him the other day that I considered asking him to do something I DIDN'T want, in the hopes that what I really wanted might be one of the things he'd do instead, to spite me. Which is how it's gone for the last 35 years.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> Ok, T/J here, and I'm going to try to not sound as pompous as this really sounds, but...
> 
> First, does he see this A LOT? As in, every other day he comes home and you're all in different rooms on your different electronics? Or was it just a one-time occasion?
> 
> ...


First...thanks for making me feel "not old" for a minute....ok back to reality...

I'm not gonna lie, we are all pretty addicted to our electronic devices. It is something we all hold each other accountable for. But I think the instance he was referring to was a one time thing...or at least from what I gathered from what he said because I didn't get any more specifics about it after he said he was wrong in assuming... Now on the other hand...I don't think he is doing something "wrong" if for some random time I come home and see him on the couch on his phone or playing the Wii... It would have never crossed my mind to make such assumptions...

And yes...the kids have limits on electronic/screen time...sometimes we let it slip, but for the most part we all try our hardest. I can hardly keep my two little ones inside...they would much rather play outside forever...lol.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

intheory said:


> And you don't think it's kind of sick, that when he and his band buddies have to use the attic; that he immediately springs into action to fix it; after 12 years????


Yes, I do. It's selfish. 

My only point was if something is bothering your spouse for that long he has no right to "not approve" it. Especially if it's a health concern (mold can make you sick or worse). It's 50% her house too and better to let him sulk for a month about calling a guy and spending money then to spend 12 years aggravated about it. She gives him the option to repair it first, if the deadline passes then call. 

Anyway back on topic sorry OP.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> I stopped reading after this. What's the point? These WAW's scripts are all the same. You mean to tell me you're raising four beautiful children who consider you half their WORLD (dad's the other half) literally, shaping them into the grown ups they will become and doing your part to support them financially as well as emotionally and you feel like you're not contributing to anything?!?
> 
> It's tragic how many people take what they have for granted. I wonder what the kids take on this is? They are probably as clueless as your husband proclaims too be. I'm sure you have a laundry list of grips against your hubby who you probably blame for everything. I'll bet he has one too except he's learned to be okay with who you are but you, for whatever reasons you've rationalized to yourself, are not okay with him.
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying about how can I feel like I'm not contributing...and I don't feel that way towards that.

And I do not blame my H for everything. I know what part I've played in how it got to be. We were both lazy and didn't "think" we had to work on us. But...I still hold him accountable for treating me like I'm not worth the time of day to share information with or not valuing any input I have given, or how he has not taken a single word I have said to him to heart and cared enough to make time for us.

I think I have been fighting to make it work, but it has fallen on deaf ears...I have tried just about everything you asked that I've tried....He would never respond to my texts. I would randomly send "naughty" pics and I would sometimes maybe get a response of "K" or something equally lame. He has recently started responding, but only because the counselor said to.....and I know that is him trying, but it still hurts that it took her telling him to and not me asking him to.

And yes...you must have found my WAW (now that I know what that means) handbook I dropped and read the part about how I'm ready to run off to Paris....Now I'll have to think of something else equally unrealistic to do.....

I'm sorry you got burned (obviously)...thank you for your input/side.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> This was his example of how he perceives me and my interaction with the kids:
> 
> "When I'm not home and come home after being gone awhile (1,2,3 hrs)..this is what I walk in to...Her (me) on our bed watching TV, daughter in her room on her phone, oldest son in his room on the computer, and the two little boys playing together. All separate...doing their own things alone. No one is engaging each other!"
> 
> ...


That is kinds of stupid. BFD the kids are watching TV or games. Mine do the same. Last thing I tell my W is how to engage our two daughters. 

Is your H in a management position?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CatJayBird said:


> First...thanks for making me feel "not old" for a minute....ok back to reality...
> 
> I'm not gonna lie, we are all pretty addicted to our electronic devices. It is something we all hold each other accountable for. But I think the instance he was referring to was a one time thing...or at least from what I gathered from what he said because I didn't get any more specifics about it after he said he was wrong in assuming... Now on the other hand...I don't think he is doing something "wrong" if for some random time I come home and see him on the couch on his phone or playing the Wii... It would have never crossed my mind to make such assumptions...
> 
> And yes...the kids have limits on electronic/screen time...sometimes we let it slip, but for the most part we all try our hardest. I can hardly keep my two little ones inside...they would much rather play outside forever...lol.


Well, that's why I asked if it was a one-time thing. To get you to be honest with yourself if there really was a problem he was seeing. So it sounds like he was just fishing for something to gripe about?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

CatJayBird said:


> I started IC because if felt like I was losing myself. I didn’t know who or what I was anymore. I felt like my life was just about being a working mom 24/7. I feel like I have no self worth, like I have nothing to contribute to anything. I’ve been working on becoming myself again, but everyone around me sees it as I’m doing a 180 or some kind of midlife crisis! I don’t feel like that. I feel like I am FINALLY being ME after 16 years of just going through the motions of married life with kids. Or IDK…maybe it is a midlife crisis!? Lol…
> 
> .


What you have to realize is this is a rationalization.

The real story you are avoiding facing is that you possibly made a bad choice in a husband, and then you chose to keep making babies up until 3 years ago, and now you are in a bind.

So instead of facing it head on, it's "losing yourself", "mid life crisis" and "being me" which is a bunch of pop psych new age labels. Doesn't this sound alot more elegant and complex and justifiable reason for divorce than admitting to yourself you made some bad choices?

My strong recommendation is you focus on actionable concrete things such as figuring out how to meet your husband's needs, and figuring out whether or not this man is willing and able to meet your needs. He certainly can't meet them if he doesn't know what they are.... But if he does know what they are and chooses not to meet them, you have isolated the problem in it's entirety, and it has everything to do with having a selfish husband and nothing to do with not knowing who or what you are anymore.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Telling him "umpteenth times" is a cop out.


Here's a bit to add onto this.

When you are telling him - does he understand?

An excellent MC my SO and I went to asked that question.

When the MC asked about the question, my SO gave her interpretation of what she was asking and I gave mine.

My SO was blown away with how radically different I had interpreted her question.

Just because you are repeating something for the umpteenth time doesn't mean he is interpreting it the way you want him too.

If anything, read through some threads where there is discord. You find people always saying something along the lines of I took responsibility for all the problems. It should be "I was finally able to understand what they wanted and we were able to communicate"

You have terrible communication with your husband. That needs to change.

If you feel your husband doesn't treat you correctly, Then you make him understand with communication. 

If you can finally communicate and he is still treating you poorly, well then it's time to find someone new who will treat you correctly.

People only treat us as we'll allow. You need to make the changes for yourself and communicate so that he can change and meet your expectations.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, as I pointed out, there CAN be an added dimension to this. Some people simply don't choose to hear their partner, even if they come up with 12 different ways to say something. My H, for instance, has a thing against women, due to his mother who expected him to do everything for her; she even left her husband and moved in with him without even asking; he was expected to drop everything whenever she wanted something. 

So I come into the marriage, unaware of this, and over the years (after blaming myself every which way from Sunday) came to realize he simply had a chip on his shoulder about women telling him what to do. I would ask him to do something I was incapable of doing myself, he would look me right in the eyes, say nothing, and go sleep on the couch. Or go do something else, as long as it was NOT what I asked for. Afterward, I've cried, I've asked to talk, I've tried to do it myself and failed (and then get yelled at), I've negotiated...and the only thing that has worked, in 35 years, is him seeing me packing my stuff and getting ready to move out. NOW he listens. Now he is starting to fix things on this third house that has been falling apart around us.

And I've known men who simply believe that nagging is what women do and ignoring it (and what the women want) is what men do.

Only she will know if she's dealing with something similar. But you're definitely right, OP, you have to ensure that you're looking at your side objectively and aren't contributing to the problem.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

As Turnera said, actions speak louder than words. My W did the same to me. My inattentiveness and anger issues were addressed with me over 20 years. Not until I had seen the whites of my W eyes and her stating I get help for my anger issues or she will be looking to leave did I know she was serious. I have never seen her that serious. In getting my act together did I find out how I handled a lot things wrong. Sites like TAM helped a lot. So willing to lose the marriage can save it. Your H demanded you not leave. So there is concern there. However, it appears hour H needs to come to grips that 50% of the marriage is his. Fix it/him.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> That is kinds of stupid. BFD the kids are watching TV or games. Mine do the same. Last thing I tell my W is how to engage our two daughters.
> 
> Is your H in a management position?


Yes he is. A medical office administrator.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> Well, that's why I asked if it was a one-time thing. To get you to be honest with yourself if there really was a problem he was seeing. So it sounds like he was just fishing for something to gripe about?


I think so. I don't recall if I mentioned it, but this came up because I said I was most content when he was not home. He then said....blah blah blah...


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

snerg said:


> Here's a bit to add onto this.
> 
> When you are telling him - does he understand?
> 
> ...


You are 100% percent correct with we have failed with communication.

I think he is finally trying to "hear" me...although it is disheartening when he/we backslide....I just feel hurt all over again...and I'm working on letting that go and brushing myself off. 

Thank you.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> Yes he is. A medical office administrator.


Ah...appears to treat you like an employee. I did the same with my W to a certain extent. It does not work well...I guess you know this already. So, when your H comes home he is immediately assessing your handling of the kids like an administrator?


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Hello CJB-

As I read through this thread, I see some minor evolution of thinking going on...

Your first post had a lot of "I and Me" phrasing (all the while pointing the blame finger at him). You then moved into at least acknowledging that you have a part to play in this...but then your most recent post goes back to "he is finally hearing you (implying the fault is with him). 

A marriage is a partnership and the state of that union is BOTH partners at play. You are 100% responsible for your contribution. 

Instead of framing this is a ME versus HIM. The effort to repair/rebuild a marriage should be a team effort...

I would suggest changing the mindset from "he needs to change x, y, and z and you have to change a, b, and c" to how do WE want to make our marriage better....what would that look like?....what is one thing I can do to meet the other person's need...

I recommend "His Needs, Her Needs" by Dr. Willard Harley 

From what I read, both you and husband want a better marriage...I read hope


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Ah...appears to treat you like an employee. I did the same with my W to a certain extent. It does not work well...I guess you know this already. So, when your H comes home he is immediately assessing your handling of the kids like an administrator?


He mostly treats all of us like his employees. I've pointed this out several times....He kinda agrees, apologizes, and then just does it again....


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Sorry if I sound wishy washy here.... It's a daily struggle with wanting to throw in the towel and ok...we can do this... 

I'm taking everything I've read here and other threads, the advice given, the books recommended, mc, ic, etc to heart. 

Thank you everyone! Keep throwing stuff at me ....the good and the bad!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

CatJayBird said:


> He mostly treats all of us like his employees. I've pointed this out several times....He kinda agrees, apologizes, and then just does it again....


boundaries, consequences...

For some men, women's words are meaningless and just to be ignored. The only thing they WILL pay attention to is your ACTIONS.

"Hon, you're talking as if I'm an employee. If you do it again, I'm going to go do my own thing whether it's what you want or not." 

And then go DO your own thing and leave him without getting whatever it is he wants done.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

CatJayBird said:


> He mostly treats all of us like his employees. I've pointed this out several times....He kinda agrees, apologizes, and then just does it again....


pointing out (Criticizing) and helping him to understand are two different things.

Can he do reflexive listening? This is where he translate back to you what you have said to him?



CatJayBird said:


> Sorry if I sound wishy washy here.... It's a daily struggle with wanting to throw in the towel and ok...we can do this...
> 
> I'm taking everything I've read here and other threads, the advice given, the books recommended, mc, ic, etc to heart.
> 
> Thank you everyone! Keep throwing stuff at me ....the good and the bad!


No need to apologize.

Change is hard.

Change in a marriage where walls have been built up is supremely difficult.

Keep your eye on the prize and keep moving forward.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

We understand that you are going thru a difficult period. The things is it's not only you who needs to make changes and adjustments but your husband as well. Now the question is how do you get him to understand and be willing to make those adjustments and changes. 

My husband is a former marine, he told me I needed to be more efficient and organized. I needed to have a plan of action and execute it. Yea, thats going to work really well on small kids. Our daughter, then, 6 told him, daddy we are not soldiers. 

So, how do we get your husband to start hearing you? 
How do you do you spend the evening/early night when the kids are in bed?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> He mostly treats all of us like his employees. I've pointed this out several times....He kinda agrees, apologizes, and then just does it again....


Yep...you H has the same stupid tactic I employed. He needs to grasp that you are not his employee. His job description of administrator stops at your homes front door. He is not jotting down items in your personal file to be used later for raises, promotions or firings. Coming home assessing your "unsupervised work habits" are left at work for his employees. Not his W. That sh!t don't fly. As soon as your H starts in with the managers hat and not his H hat simply advise what he is doing and walk away. You will return to talk when the managing stops.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

brooklynAnn said:


> We understand that you are going thru a difficult period. The things is it's not only you who needs to make changes and adjustments but your husband as well. Now the question is how do you get him to understand and be willing to make those adjustments and changes.
> 
> My husband is a former marine, he told me I needed to be more efficient and organized. I needed to have a plan of action and execute it. Yea, thats going to work really well on small kids. Our daughter, then, 6 told him, daddy we are not soldiers.
> 
> ...



What is not going to work about having a plan with kids? I did it all the time. That said, someone else does not have the right to tell you what you have to do.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

snerg said:


> pointing out (Criticizing) and helping him to understand are two different things.
> 
> Can he do reflexive listening? This is where he translate back to you what you have said to him?
> 
> ...



Never a truer statement. My W built a frigging fortress for walks. This due to my stupidity. Took some time but the Iron Curtain did come down. Our marriage better off for it.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> We understand that you are going thru a difficult period. The things is it's not only you who needs to make changes and adjustments but your husband as well. Now the question is how do you get him to understand and be willing to make those adjustments and changes.
> 
> My husband is a former marine, he told me I needed to be more efficient and organized. I needed to have a plan of action and execute it. Yea, thats going to work really well on small kids. Our daughter, then, 6 told him, daddy we are not soldiers.
> 
> ...


After 9pm...when all the kids are in bed...we try to squeeze in as many of these activities that we can....finish cleaning the kitchen (if it still needs done), workout (we both started backup with that) and shower, getting kids things ready for next day, talk, DVRd TV shows, read, sex...(not in any specific order)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Your kids seem fairly old - are they not cleaning the kitchen?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

We are both currently reading The Five Love Languages and took the online quiz to see where we fall. 

Last night I told him that I know he loves me, but I don't feel the love coming from him. He said he didn't know what to do about that because he knows I love him and feels the love coming from me...but how he feels love doesn't work back at me. I told him to keep reading the book and when we were done we can write down some things we think we can do for each other....and just keep trying.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

CatJayBird said:


> After 9pm...when all the kids are in bed...we try to squeeze in as many of these activities that we can....finish cleaning the kitchen (if it still needs done), workout (we both started backup with that) and shower, getting kids things ready for next day, talk, DVRd TV shows, read, sex...(not in any specific order)


When all the evenings activities are finished and it's time to relax and watch some tv. Try holding hands and talk about small things. Put your head on his shoulder, ask about his day. Tell him little things about yours. Tell him somethings that the kids did, ask him questions about the kids....just trying to rebuild that bond.

You guys are still having sex, so how is that going? Is it intimate or hurry up and get it done? (don't need to answer if you don't want to, just food for thought). Have you tried tantric sex. Do some research and see if that is something you might be interested in. It helps build intimacy and you are just focus on each other.

How is your husband reacting to the small changes you are making? Is he noticing anything?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

turnera said:


> Your kids seem fairly old - are they not cleaning the kitchen?


We all try and make an effort to do most of the cleaning immediately after dinner. It's usually not that much left to do....after bath snack cups and bowls..getting the coffee ready for the next day.....


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> What is not going to work about having a plan with kids? I did it all the time. That said, someone else does not have the right to tell you what you have to do.



At that time we did not understand our son's disabilities or even knew he had one. Just that he was a difficult child and he had lots of problems transitioning from one activity to the next. So, we would have periods of long outburst that took a lot of time to settle and that just ate away from any sort of planned activities.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> After 9pm...when all the kids are in bed...we try to squeeze in as many of these activities that we can....finish cleaning the kitchen (if it still needs done), workout (we both started backup with that) and shower, getting kids things ready for next day, talk, DVRd TV shows, read, sex...(not in any specific order)


This is promising. Doing things together. My marriage of 21 years spends evening similar to yours. Dinner, clean up, watch TV shows and tickling the ivories. However, our weekends are away from these things we do all week. Our weekends are planned for day trips, dates and things away from M-F goings on. These are the days were my W and I really connect. No distraction other than enjoying the day/each other doing something outside of the home. It is a bit tougher with younger kids to do some day trip things but I can assure you there is plenty to do that include kids. 

How do you as a family/couple spend your weekends?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> We are both currently reading The Five Love Languages and took the online quiz to see where we fall.
> 
> Last night I told him that I know he loves me, but I don't feel the love coming from him. He said he didn't know what to do about that because he knows I love him and feels the love coming from me...but how he feels love doesn't work back at me. I told him to keep reading the book and when we were done we can write down some things we think we can do for each other....and just keep trying.


Not sure how you lead up to sex and none of my business but doing certain things can help make sex better. Less, get'er done type thing. I can tell you that my W and I sext all day. Plenty of touching when we are home. By the time sex can happen we are both more that ready, willing and no holds barred. :surprise: >


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

brooklynAnn said:


> At that time we did not understand our son's disabilities or even knew he had one.


Gotcha.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> When all the evenings activities are finished and it's time to relax and watch some tv. Try holding hands and talk about small things. Put your head on his shoulder, ask about his day. Tell him little things about yours. Tell him somethings that the kids did, ask him questions about the kids....just trying to rebuild that bond.
> 
> You guys are still having sex, so how is that going? Is it intimate or hurry up and get it done? (don't need to answer if you don't want to, just food for thought). Have you tried tantric sex. Do some research and see if that is something you might be interested in. It helps build intimacy and you are just focus on each other.
> 
> How is your husband reacting to the small changes you are making? Is he noticing anything?


We are still having sex. My sex drive ramped up since getting off the pill 3 yrs ago. I NEED it! It's not rushed normally... I know sometimes there is less emotion coming from me than him...and that's one of the things I'm working on. I will do some research on that topic.

You know what....I'm not sure what he's noticing...other than both of us being more comfortable with being more open and honest. I'll be sure to see what he has to say about that.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> This is promising. Doing things together. My marriage of 21 years spends evening similar to yours. Dinner, clean up, watch TV shows and tickling the ivories. However, our weekends are away from these things we do all week. Our weekends are planned for day trips, dates and things away from M-F goings on. These are the days were my W and I really connect. No distraction other than enjoying the day/each other doing something outside of the home. It is a bit tougher with younger kids to do some day trip things but I can assure you there is plenty to do that include kids.
> 
> How do you as a family/couple spend your weekends?


We haven't always spent our evening like this...obviously. Our old routine would be clean up together with minimal speaking, sitting on opposite ends of couch while watching TV/Reading, or just spending it separate in different rooms until we both fell asleep. So that is a definite improvement.

Our weekends usually consist of doing things around the house that we cannot get to during the week...laundry, cleaning, yard work, grocery shopping..etc. We usually do a movie night with the kids Friday/Saturday...which includes whatever food treat they pick and splurge and eat in the living room while watching the movie. We also are teaching our daughter to drive...eek. We do outside play, random bday parties, family get togethers, spend time with my nieces, an occasional day trip...which are getting easier now that my youngest is a little bit older...and sometimes we just veg at home..listening to music and playing board/card games.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> We haven't always spent our evening like this...obviously. Our old routine would be clean up together with minimal speaking, sitting on opposite ends of couch while watching TV/Reading, or just spending it separate in different rooms until we both fell asleep. So that is a definite improvement.
> 
> Our weekends usually consist of doing things around the house that we cannot get to during the week...laundry, cleaning, yard work, grocery shopping..etc. We usually do a movie night with the kids Friday/Saturday...which includes whatever food treat they pick and splurge and eat in the living room while watching the movie. We also are teaching our daughter to drive...eek. We do outside play, random bday parties, family get togethers, spend time with my nieces, an occasional day trip...which are getting easier now that my youngest is a little bit older...and sometimes we just veg at home..listening to music and playing board/card games.


Glad the improvement in your evenings is happening. That is part of keeping the connection. It also appears your weekends are typical for a majority of married with children. Great family time. Nothing of note there from me other than maybe finding a sitter a few times a month so you and H can go out on a date. Let's face it...Disney movies is great for kids but as adults our brains would like to be a bit more inspired by a R rated thriller once in a while followed up by a dinner for two. These two can spend time eating and discussing the movie without interruption. The same stuff you did when dating. Doing the date night helps in reconnecting, remembering how it once was long before kids/mortgage hit the scene and letting the brain escape the day to day grind.


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