# Wife Read Personal notes (e.g., diary)



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Ok - well, it's partially my fault - as I wrote thoughts on various aspects of our marriage, work and my life in my NOTES section of my ipad. It is my ipad and nobody else uses it.

Well, she asked to use the ipad when she was spending time with her mom in the hospital to look for Christmas gifts and I lent it to her.

Well, she indicated that she had wanted to take some notes and stumbled upon my notes on various topics and felt "betrayed" and/or "violoated".

What I wrote or kept track of: 

- our fights, disagreements and her moods. Writing this out help me deal with them and not to be passive agressive. MOst of the time, its to take note on when she has issues with me (I didn't listen, I didn't do that, I didn't do this...I didn't hear her...etc.).

- my kids attending a paid for sport. We pay for 3 days a week for lessons and one of my kids routinely misses at least one day. When I brought this up, she said that it wasn't true and she only misses once in a while. So, I kept track.

- Sex lif. Yes, sadly, while embarrassing, I did keep track on how often we had sex. Seems she doesnt like to have it much anymore and I wanted to know how often we actually did it (about 2 x per month) given that she says we have it enough. I've only been tracking it since January. I miss the intimacy. 15 years ago - she used to complain that we didnt have it enough. Now apparently, I'm not good at it, nor have I ever been good at it. I'm open for suggestions from her on improving.

- I'm a hobbiest singer/songwriter and I had notes on partial songs written, a few about how she can get so upset for what seems like a trivial thing (e.g., her having to repeat herself if I didn't hear her or misunderstood her, or was lost in thought).

Yeah, I know you've probably heard this - but, I think of myself as a good husband. She doesn't have to work (I make a very good income), but she can if she so desires (she presently is a teachers' aid for 4 hours a day). I help out around the house (cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping) and help get the kids up and out of the house for school etc. (4 kids, all in high school).

So, while I apologized for what she may have read, I said it was meant to be personal, and it wasn't shared with anyone, and was not to be shared with anyone - including her. And while I admit I should have password protected it, she had no right to read anything but the first page of what might have been left open. I said she was at fault for continuing to read it. I don't think I'm at fault.

She says "its over", and many other things. I said (this is all through texts by the way), look, I'm pissed that you read it, but lets chalk it up to a bad experience and move on.

She then started with a martyr routine "FIne - leave me. I don't care...take the kids, take the house, I will sign anything you want...I'll post on FB on what a horrible life you have" WTF? My life is not horrible. We have our problems (our relationship has been like a sine curve for the 20+ years we've been married).

What should I do?? Is she now feeling guity in realizing that she gets pissed off at me alot??


----------



## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

22years said:


> Ok - well, it's partially my fault - as I wrote thoughts on various aspects of our marriage, work and my life in my NOTES section of my ipad. It is my ipad and nobody else uses it.
> 
> Well, she asked to use the ipad when she was spending time with her mom in the hospital to look for Christmas gifts and I lent it to her.
> 
> ...


Been there, done that. I can't keep a personal journal anymore. You know, I actually still did for awhile after he read it and blew up on me about some stuff I put in there, so what I did after that is start writing to him in my journal...since I knew he'd read it eventually anyway. But I tried to point out to him that I write in there when I'm conflicted and feeling bad about something and it is my way of working out my feelings, and I might not necessarily still feel the same way I did when I was writing it. He went on and on about what if the kids find it, what if something happens to us and we die and the journal is there for anyone to go through, blah blah blah. I just don't do it anymore. He can't get through his head that those _were_ my feelings _then_.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

She can be angry, but you are right. Those are your private thoughts and she should be really thinking hard about what she was reading. She's too busy being offended to care that you actually have concerns about your marriage.

Let her cool off. Maybe you can approach her after a time and ask if she would like to talk about what she read and maybe come to some sort of understanding. This isn't about blaming each other, this is about you finding a place to express yourself because you have trouble expressing yourself to HER... and rightly so. She gets defensive and shuts down. She's doing it now and you haven't 'said' a word.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Thanks DayDream...nice to know I am not alone. It's just frustrating. I think a good deal of the anger is perhaps guilt or embarrassment (as noted) in finding out how much she gets upset with things I do or say, or don't do or don't say. Sadly, I've only come to realize after all these years that I'm in a controlling relationship, though less so than back when we were first married.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> What should I do??


I would tell her ONE TIME, "I'm sorry your feelings are hurt. My feelings are just that...*MY feelings*! I'm entitled to them as you are to yours. Sometimes I'm happy with you, sometimes I'm angry with you. Ditto for the kids. Ditto for myself.

Can I understand *WHY* you're upset? Yes, I can. Am I going to apologize for my feelings which are JUST as legitimate as YOURS? No! It is unfortunate that you read things about yourself that you do not like; I write when I am unhappy, discouraged, confused, trying to deal with/or figure things out. I write them down so I can mull them over in my own head, so I can decide OVERALL *HOW* I feel before I discuss things with you; I don't want to lash out when I'm angry in the moment. 

Once you realized that what you were reading was PRIVATE, I wish you had stopped reading; it made YOU upset and made ME feel like I have to defend my own thoughts...which I have NO INTENTION of doing. Those were PRIVATE thoughts which I may or may not still agree with at any particular point in time."

Then DROP IT and let HER get over it (or sulk if she wants to, she's entitled to HER feelings, too). It is EXTREMELY unrealistic to believe that our S.O. ALWAYS thinks we walk on water.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You have a right to your thoughts and feelings. Although transparency is important in a marriage, it's also important to have some privacy, and our thoughts are certainly the most private things we have. Not all of them *should* be shared, and you clearly understand that when you document them privately on your own computer that isn't intended to be used by others. 

In the future, yes, you should password protect such documents. 

Now that the deed is done, so to speak, you two will need to find a way to move past it. How will that happen? Hopefully it won't mean the entire relationship crashing down! 

You might have to find a way to keep your diary more private. 
She might have to find a way to cope with the idea that your thoughts aren't always rosy and glowing. If she's honest about it, neither are hers. 

Her reaction seems to be that she's unhappy recognizing the effects of her own behaviors. You can adopt an empathetic role instead of an accusatory one to ensure the best chance for moving forward. If you defend the things you've written, she'll feel judged and get defensive most likely. I'd encourage you to refuse to engage on those things as part of the "read the diary" dialogues, and stick to topics related only to privacy until it passes. You can tell her that you understand that she's upset. You can reassure her that while you sometimes feel hurt or angry, you do love her. 

As the pain diminishes, you may find that the hurtful subjects can be broached with more cooperation than before.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Been there too!

Slight difference in my story is that I often wrote in my journal while I was sitting at kids practices and waiting on folks.

One of the big tussles in our marriage has been how my MIL has invaded our life for years now and always seems to be at our house (I'm talking typically 5 or 6 nights a week when I get home)

Well, she came across the journal one day (it was under the seat) and read it. Thing is, she doesn't know I know she read it! I found out when she'd left a pad of paper out on our dresser and I came home early one day to find only the following sentence written "I was in your truck the other day and came across your journal and read through it...."

I felt violated. I felt betrayed because I know she has journaled for years before I started to and whenever I came across hers, I put it down as soon as I realized what it was.

Too bad I didn't get the same consideration. During the period I journaled I was also going through a number of other issues that impacted me in a negative manner. Instead of taking it out on others, I committed it to paper as a form of pressure relief.

To this day, it is her secret. I added to the journal that she should feel free to read it and to come talk to me about anything in there but she still hasn't.

I switched to journaling in an email account I have that she doesn't have access to. Seems I still need somewhere to deal with my own issues


----------



## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Download an app that let's you password protect your journal. Don't cut off this outlet.

Now that it's in the open, though, work against her hurt feelings and resentment. Make an appointment with a marriage counselor. Take her to it. Hash this out. Be firm that you love her and want the marriage. Let her know that now us a good time to address problems that you both have been not talking about. She's privy to some of your concerns and venting and now she can vent to you, too.

Imagine how you'd feel if you had read her diary after a fight. Also hurt. Don't get defensive. Comfort and reassure her first. Then talk it through -- all of it. 

From now on, guard your personal thoughts better (password) and recognize that you two have gotta improve communication a little so there is more problem solving and less isolated venting and resentment. 

Thank goodness you were journaling and not saying these things to another woman. That's one the things my WH did. I was devastated that he let other women into his heart and pushed me out instead of communicating. In part, she is upset because she feels left out, I imagine.

Don't Give Up.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> Her reaction seems to be that she's unhappy recognizing the effects of her own behaviors. You can adopt an empathetic role instead of an accusatory one to ensure the best chance for moving forward. *If you defend the things you've written, she'll feel judged and get defensive most likely.* I'd encourage you to refuse to engage on those things as part of the "read the diary" dialogues, and stick to topics related only to privacy until it passes. You can tell her that you understand that she's upset. You can reassure her that while you sometimes feel hurt or angry, you do love her.


Could you expand a bit on this? Part of me thinks this is dead wrong, at least so far as these are his feelings. he has a right to them and absolutely should defend having them and writing them out to help deal with it. For her to feel defensive comes to close to manipulation to me.

On the other hand, I do agree it is likely not productive to get into an exchange on the specific facts that lead up to the feelings, at least not at this point.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Journals are a place to keep your unadulterated, uncensored and OFTEN misguided thoughts (misguided because when you are writing them, you generally are at your rawest to the issue. You haven't had time to process it because...well writing in a journal DOES THAT LOL). 

Your wife is the person who is in the wrong. She read your journal. I don't see a problem there. I'm a fan of transparency in a marriage. But when you're reading someone else's thoughts you have to be prepared for what you read. 

Her response is telling. It SHOULD be, OMG, my husband isn't happy in our marriage (I'm simplifying), what can we do to fix this. Instead, you're WRONG for feeling what you're feeling. That's effed up. You need to sit down with your wife and I also advise counseling. You both obviously have some issues brewing inside. And they're not fixing themselves, they're getting worse.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

We have had incredibly happy times in our marriage, but have also been at the door of divorce. She will not see a marriage counseler, or read self-help books. So, I've been on my own on how to deal with her.

She can be the kindest, sweetest woman, then the most maniputative and controlling person on the planet. She would used to use her anger to manipulate me, then I called her on it several years ago (about time) that she was effectively a "bully" (this is about the time when teenage bulling became center stage). 

I just wish she would realize that neither of us is perfect and we're in this together to work out issues.

I used to be severaly passive agressive - seemed my only defense to someone who uses anger and who refuses counseling. But when I started writing things down, I stopped being passive agressive (which is really useless and just as bad as being the original agressor).


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I would tell her ONE TIME, "I'm sorry your feelings are hurt. My feelings are just that...*MY feelings*! I'm entitled to them as you are to yours. Sometimes I'm happy with you, sometimes I'm angry with you. Ditto for the kids. Ditto for myself.
> 
> Can I understand *WHY* you're upset? Yes, I can. Am I going to apologize for my feelings which are JUST as legitimate as YOURS? No! It is unfortunate that you read things about yourself that you do not like; I write when I am unhappy, discouraged, confused, trying to deal with/or figure things out. I write them down so I can mull them over in my own head, so I can decide OVERALL *HOW* I feel before I discuss things with you; I don't want to lash out when I'm angry in the moment.
> 
> ...


Great post.


----------



## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

If I ever writhe ANYTHING like that in an electronic document, I secure it with a password that only I know. I think diaries are just a bad idea anyway though.

Sure, she shouldn't have read it. But few people could resist that temptation when it's staring them in the face.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *22years said:* I just wish she would realize that neither of us is perfect and we're in this together to work out issues.


That would be a good segway to a conversation... once she calms down.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

There's a fine line between transparency in a marriage, IMO, and invasion of privacy. Everyone is entitled to their private thoughts, and writing them down often helps us to clarify our thoughts. 

Sometimes when I'm really angry, I will 'write' the person I'm angry with a very scathing letter - no holds barred, just getting it all out there. Having done so, I will read what I've written and then delete the letter. By that time I've got rid of my anger and am then able to approach the issue from a healthier, more logical and calm standpoint. You, yourself, found that writing things down helped you overcome passive aggressive behaviour, and I think this is a very positive thing for you to have done.

Your wife cannot expect to control your thoughts, and whilst she might be angry at what you had 'written,' they were simply your thoughts - to which you are fully entitled.

Also, OP, I would revisit the question of counseling, because whilst your wife is happy with sex twice a month you, quite understandably, are not.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Thanks for all the comments and verifying my thoughts.

I particularly like whoever said "...if i was reading this and found out that my spouse didn't like certain things, I would see what I could change."

That's what I would do if the shoe was on the other foot. 

Anyway, I've tried sending her some texts to say lets get past this and trying to joke with her - but she hasn't answered.

Oh well, this too shall pass.

Thanks again everyone.


----------



## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

22years said:


> Yeah, I know you've probably heard this - but, I think of myself as a good husband. She doesn't have to work (I make a very good income), but she can if she so desires (she presently is a teachers' aid for 4 hours a day). I help out around the house (cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping) and help get the kids up and out of the house for school etc. (4 kids, all in high school).


Is that what you think makes a good husband?

Your wife is giving you a sh1t test right now, and you are failing it miserably 

Strongly suggest you stop trying to fix her feelings and reactions to your journal. She's a big girl, she needs to solve her own problems. You don't need to constantly be reassuring her.

Suggest you stick to your convictions, stand up for your feelings ONCE, then happily move on with your life.


----------



## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

IMO journals are generally off limits, and those kinds of private thoughts should not be held against you. That being said, if there are red flags for cheating, everything is on the table. 

I had suspicions that my exW was cheating a couple years ago. Hadn't found TAM yet, so I didn't have much in my spy arsenal. After months of gut feelings, I found across her journal and read it. I learned that she was (at least) crushing on a guy at the gym. The last entry was about 3 mos prior, and it implied that she had met with him, along with a few other hurtful things about not wanting to be a wife/mother, etc. I hated that I had to read her journal, but I still felt I deserved the truth. 

She tried to tell me it was all just a fantasy, to which I responded that nobody writes fiction in their journal. We went to counseling but basically rugswept. The counselor had the gall to tell me that what I had done was just as bad as what she had written. I laughed at that and told him I'd stop at nothing to find the truth when my family was at stake. 

A little over a year later, marriage is in the sh!tter again, guess why?


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

22years said:


> Thanks for all the comments and verifying my thoughts.
> 
> I particularly like whoever said "...if i was reading this and found out that my spouse didn't like certain things, I would see what I could change."
> 
> ...


:iagree:

That would be the reasonable thing to do. However, some people find it difficult admitting that they've done something wrong or need to change in some way.

I hope once your wife gets over her anger she starts to take stock of what she actually read.


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think it will probably turn out to be a good thing that your wife read this. 

She is pissed right now, but I think it will sink it that your journal is the truth. People don't see the negative things they do to the people close to them. They tend to minimize the extent of their actions.

We have sex plenty! I hardly ever complain! etc.

Reading it should help her realize where she needs to work on the relationship.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Well, we texted about the sex part of it, and she says that she has to drink alot before we have sex (a glass of wine!), and that she does that to "tolerate" the act, and that she doesn't enjoy sex with me and is sorry that I had to find out this way. I don't know - while I would like sex more often, when we do have it, seems we both really enjoy it. 

We're both in shape people and look pretty damn good for our ages (late 40s...heck, I ran a marathon 2 weeks ago!). She is VERY attractive.

But, I know that much of this is said to hurt me. So, I take all of this with a grain of salt.


----------



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I see much more problems "behind the scenes" then what is actually being discussed.

Mainly, that you seem to vent to your journal instead of speaking directly to your wife. I feel like a lot of these things should be brought up to your wife directly instead of written down in a journal only you see.

That being said, they are YOUR feelings, so why should you be apologizing at all? They are just as important as her feelings. Sounds like you are appeasing her.

Next, the things she said about sex are extremely hurtful and show that she has very little respect for you. Whether she said them to you on purpose or not, that's a cruel thing to do, it certainly doesn't speak of love.

And last, her reaction, "fine just leave me, blah blah blah", that sounds like something people that don't want to be married say. Obviously your marriage is not good, you're getting infrequent sex and your wife appears to lack respect or concern for your feelings, what are you doing as a couple to fix this?

Have you read Married Man's Sex Primer or No More Mr. Nice Guy? Sounds like you could fit the bill for a "nice guy". Could be eye opening....

Also, I hate to be the guy that does this, but based on the "fine just leave" thing and the fact that she makes rude remarks about sex to you, are there any other signs of cheating? Acting distant, more time away from home, extra time on the phone or computer, more girls night outs than usual, more attention to her appearance, change in sex drive?


----------



## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

I agree with COguy - why are you writing about it in a journal instead of talking directly to her about issues you have about your relationship? You're communicating with paper rather than your sentient wife. How's that going for you? Solving any problems?


----------



## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

And eventually "The Way of the Superior Man", which might give you some insight into her behavior at this moment.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Thanks COguy - will check out the no more mr. niceguy book.

You are right, in some respects, I do vent to my journal. However, its a way I've learned to deal with things with her over the past 23 years. Approaching her on things is challenging (as you can see - no counseling or self-help books for her), and ultimately, my issues with her would likely (based on attempts years ago at this) boil down to the issues she has with me (i.e., its my fault).

As I said - we've had some really good times, even recently; but seems like every so often something like this happens.


----------



## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

"Something like this" is part of life man!

How are you going to deal with it in an effective manner??? Good times come with bad times. You can't have only one. Start learning to embrace them both!

Your wife being difficult is part of the game.

Approaching her on stuff is challenging???? :scratchhead: So do you like a challenge or what?

Are you afraid of challenging her, so you back down and become resentful? Do you watch your life waste away before you eyes always wishing you could do more, hoping one day "she'll change and then it'll be alright...."??


----------



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

22years said:


> Thanks COguy - will check out the no more mr. niceguy book.
> 
> You are right, in some respects, I do vent to my journal. However, its a way I've learned to deal with things with her over the past 23 years. Approaching her on things is challenging (as you can see - no counseling or self-help books for her), and ultimately, my issues with her would likely (based on attempts years ago at this) boil down to the issues she has with me (i.e., its my fault).
> 
> As I said - we've had some really good times, even recently; but seems like every so often something like this happens.


I don't want to sugar coat it, your wife sounds like a real b*tch. You sound like Mr. Nice Guy. So I'm guessing you are her doormat and she either acts like that because she can, or because she has mental issues that need addressing. Figuring out which will require you to provide more insight, and some counseling for both of you.

Either way, not standing up for yourself is going to cause problems, so start reading and working on yourself. One of those books I recommended will help you out tremendously, as well as reading some of the threads here about "manning up".

Also, I know you won't believe me, because you're a nice guy and naive (many of us have been there and done that), so take our collective experience from the sh*t pile of life. Your wife is ripe for an affair, may be in one already. Pay attention to the signs, don't ignore any of them, and maybe do some light snoopery to see if anything is suspicious. Is she texting/talking to any guys? Facebook messages? emails? Read about affairs and boundaries, doormats are good candidates for it because they lack the strength to stop behavior that is disrespectful for fear that they be called an a$$hole or controlling.


----------



## sweaty teddy (Nov 13, 2012)

22years said:


> Ok - well, it's partially my fault - as I wrote thoughts on various aspects of our marriage, work and my life in my NOTES section of my ipad. It is my ipad and nobody else uses it.
> 
> Well, she asked to use the ipad when she was spending time with her mom in the hospital to look for Christmas gifts and I lent it to her.
> 
> ...


don't fall for her crying about it. Just say listen It helps me cope with whats going on in my life . if you don't like it you leave and file and by the way do you realise we have fallen to only having sex a couple of times a month. I think we should use this as a jumping board to make our marriage better. if your not interested and keep playing boo hoo then do whatever you want.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

22years said:


> Ok - well, it's partially my fault - as I wrote thoughts on various aspects of our marriage, work and my life in my NOTES section of my ipad. It is my ipad and nobody else uses it.
> 
> Well, she asked to use the ipad when she was spending time with her mom in the hospital to look for Christmas gifts and I lent it to her.
> 
> ...


Your wife read about her Shadow. It's a part of us hidden from our consciousness but others can see. We all have a Shadow and most of us don't like to hear of it let alone look into it and own it.


Your wife could have stepped up to the plate and had an adult to adult conversation about what you'd written and attempt to work on herself out of her love and respect for you.

She didn't. Instead she responded like a hurt child.


I think you need to be very mindful that your wife has no interest in improving your marriage. Just tell her that. That you are disappointed she's not interested in working with you on your marriage.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Update:

So, I think I know what her main concern is. She is thinking that I'm gathering evidence of a crappy marriage for divorcing her.

Not sure how to convince her that this is not the case.

:scratchhead:


----------



## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Saki said:


> Strongly suggest you stop trying to fix her feelings and reactions to your journal. She's a big girl, she needs to solve her own problems. You don't need to constantly be reassuring her.
> 
> Suggest you stick to your convictions, stand up for your feelings ONCE, then happily move on with your life.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Update:
> 
> So, I think I know what her main concern is. She is thinking that I'm gathering evidence of a crappy marriage for divorcing her.
> 
> Not sure how to convince her that this is not the case.


Just tell her that you wrote those things down because they upset you, and that you simply had to get them 'out there.' Let her know that you want to work on those issues, but need her cooperation in order to do so.


----------



## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> There's a fine line between transparency in a marriage, IMO, and invasion of privacy. Everyone is entitled to their private thoughts, and writing them down often helps us to clarify our thoughts.
> 
> Sometimes when I'm really angry, I will 'write' the person I'm angry with a very scathing letter - no holds barred, just getting it all out there. Having done so, I will read what I've written and then delete the letter. By that time I've got rid of my anger and am then able to approach the issue from a healthier, more logical and calm standpoint. You, yourself, found that writing things down helped you overcome passive aggressive behaviour, and I think this is a very positive thing for you to have done.
> 
> ...


I do the very same thing.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

22years said:


> Update:
> 
> So, I think I know what her main concern is. She is thinking that I'm gathering evidence of a crappy marriage for divorcing her.
> 
> ...


Is that really her problem, or her after the fact rationalization?

Keeping a journal is fine as long as it is part of open communication with your wife. Writing in your journal to gain clarity so that you can approach her later is fine. Writing in your journal to vent and avoid is not.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Not sure I agree with you on using a journal to venting.


----------



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

22years said:


> Not sure I agree with you on using a journal to venting.


That's why you're a doormat...

You're not comfortable sharing your feelings with your WIFE. If you share your feelings and you just need to write them out that's one thing, but if you substitute discussing how you feel with journal entries, you're never going to get resolution on any of your problems. You've also placed your wife's feelings, or reactions, ahead of your own, which means you're in an unsustainable marital position.

A healthy marriage looks like this:

Problem, communication, compromise

Your marriage looks like this:

Problem, silent resentment, hostility and anger


I'm sure if she has a problem she doesn't have any issue with letting you know. I'm sure you bend over backwards to make it right for her too. How convenient.....


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

A few things...

First, my therapist said I should keep a journal for a couple of reasons. One, contemporaneous notes are the best... especially since I have a bad memory. So if something good or bad happens that I want to document, I do it right away. The other reason is because I can look back at what I wrote about a bad moment and see if the problem has improved.

Second, my therapist saw that there was a huge difference between my wife's perception of our sex frequency and mine. She suggested keeping track to make sure I wasn't exaggerating the problem and my wife wasn't downplaying it. 

Finally, anytime the "go ahead and divorce me" card is thrown down, she has to be called on that. In her mind, she threw it down and you did nothing. You have to show her that divorce is ALWAYS an option, not a threat that won't be acted upon.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Good point. 

I guess in the past I have tried to explain to her that I am not a door mat. Her response is that if I can't take her at her worst, why should she give me her best. Her view is, that during her times of anger and hostility (verbal only, though there is the occasional thrown bowl - but rare), that I should be able to be a rock for her and take it.

She has indicated that this is potentially a marriage ender for us - that I should be able to take her verbal anger. Perhaps this is a deal breaker. 

Just that a majority of the time (75%+), things between us are great. Moreover, we have 4 kids, and five years to go before eveyone is out of the house. If we were ever to split - I'd rather wait until then. But, if it were not for the kids, we would probably be divorced.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

22years said:


> Approaching her on things is challenging (as you can see - no counseling or self-help books for her), and ultimately, my issues with her would likely (based on attempts years ago at this) boil down to the issues she has with me (i.e., its my fault).


This my friend is the part of your situation that falls squarely on your shoulders. It is your responsibility to bring your concerns to your wife face to face in a loving, non-blaming manner. I'm sure she won't like it and I'm sure she will react badly but too bad, she'll just have to get over it. No yelling, no blaming, no name calling, no sarcasm, no angry tones. Just put your case out there in words. When you start doing this things will change for the better.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

22years said:


> Her view is, that during her times of anger and hostility (verbal only, though there is the occasional thrown bowl - but rare), that I should be able to be a rock for her and take it.
> 
> She has indicated that this is potentially a marriage ender for us - that I should be able to take her verbal anger. Perhaps this is a deal breaker.


Well maybe you are and maybe you aren't but this is not her decision to make. Ask her nicely to quit. If that doesn't work, tell her you don't like being yelled at and you intend to leave the house if she continues. Next time, get in your car and go to the library for an hour.

My wife reacted very badly to my not allowing her to yell at me. She went so far as to hire a lawyer and file divorce papers she was so upset. She eventually decided not go through with it but if she wants to go, she knows where the door is.

I used to keep notes because we could never agree on the facts of what happened in the past. This really bothered her so I quit, thinking that keeping a book of your spouse's bad behavior is not really very loving.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> if I can't take her at her worst, why should she give me her best


What the hell kind of logic is that? It's like saying, "If you won't eat sh1t, why should I cook REAL FOOD for you?" You COULD eat sh!t, but you can't sustain life on it. You CAN take her worst, but you can't sustain a marriage on it! WTH? :scratchhead:



> Her view is, that during her times of anger and hostility (verbal only, though there is the occasional thrown bowl - but rare), that I should be able to be a rock for her and take it.


But apparently SHE can't take in when she only READS about your anger, not even taking it verbally in REAL TIME! *Damn, what a cake-eater.* I'm a WOMAN and I'm offended by her behavior! If I were there, I'd have a serious problem restraining myself from b1tch-slapping her!



> we have 4 kids, and five years to go before eveyone is out of the house. If we were ever to split - I'd rather wait until then. But, if it were not for the kids, we would probably be divorced.


 Big mistake! I'll say it again: some of the most angry/bitter people I've seen are people whose parents 'stayed together for the kids' until the kids were grown! Man those now-grown kids are explosively angry on the subject!


----------



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

"Take my sh*t or you don't love me!"

How sweet...


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

22years, the two of you have come a very long way together and are very bonded by your experiences. Separation and divorce would be very traumatic for the two of you.


So why not look at these things from a totally different perspective. See if you can get your wife along to The Marriage Course - Explore the Marriage Course | Alpha USA.


I think the vast majority of us dig ourselves deeper and deeper into ruts. In part it’s what’s meant by marriage being an institution. We do for sure become institutionalised yet we are blind to it all. The good folks who run the course will show you both the way out of the ruts you are in.


----------



## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> What the hell kind of logic is that? It's like saying, "If you won't eat sh1t, why should I cook REAL FOOD for you?" You COULD eat sh!t, but you can't sustain life on it. You CAN take her worst, but you can't sustain a marriage on it! WTH? :scratchhead:


FYI, this is the logic of entitlement


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

She's mad because she realizes WHO she actually is to you (not who SHE thought she was to you), and realizes that a lot of what you have said is true and she doesn't want to admit it, change it or fix it.

So she turns it around and makes it about you and no longer about her, thus the guilt trip, it's over, etc., etc.

Another attempt to manipulate. Don't let it happen. Ignore her, continue to journal, but find a way to protect it (password, other medium, etc.). Don't let her guilt you into not expressing your feelings.

Just because you're married does not mean you give up the right to your own thoughts, feelings and expression of them. If she doesn't like it - then perhaps she should QUIT the behavior and then you wouldn't have anything to journal about her, huh?

She's acting like a child, treat her like one and ignore her.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm really sorry she was upset what you wrote. I do the same thing to an extent, but on paper. 

Sometimes I need to write my feelings out, but a lot of it is good and how much I appreciate my husband and how I should become a better wife. Sometimes I write other things. I highly doubt my husband would ever read it. He's all for giving privacy. I do not care if he ever reads my notes/journal even if I'm in a not so good mood that day or in a great mood.

Sometimes when I write my feelings down, I'll write my husband a letter of appreciation and thanking him for all he does for me and the children.

I don't think there's anything wrong in doing this. I think your wife really overreacted.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> "Take my sh*t or you don't love me!"


Hey, maybe you can get her the t-shirt for Christmas! :rofl:


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Could you expand a bit on this? Part of me thinks this is dead wrong, at least so far as these are his feelings. he has a right to them and absolutely should defend having them and writing them out to help deal with it. For her to feel defensive comes to close to manipulation to me.
> 
> On the other hand, I do agree it is likely not productive to get into an exchange on the specific facts that lead up to the feelings, at least not at this point.


I meant that there's no need for him to justify what he feels. He has an automatic right to it and it's not dependent on whether she approves or not. If he acts like he "needs" her approval by trying to say why he felt the way he did, it will only introduce new arguments that aren't related to the current issue and will complicate matters. Back to square one... he doesn't need to justify that he had "good reason" to feel whatever he felt.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

KathyBatesel said:


> *I meant that there's no need for him to justify what he feels.* He has an automatic right to it and it's not dependent on whether she approves or not. If he acts like he "needs" her approval by trying to say why he felt the way he did, it will only introduce new arguments that aren't related to the current issue and will complicate matters. Back to square one... he doesn't need to justify that he had "good reason" to feel whatever he felt.



But he most certainly needs to justify to himself that his feelings are valid. And the only way he'll do that is by talking with his partner.

For me this is all about communication. For sure a partner should explain why they feel the way they do about something.

I think this at the very heart of a marriage and the communication within it. By explaining why we feel about something the way we do we are explaining/describing, painting a picture of who we are at our very core, right at the foundations of our psyche. Our needs, wants, values, beliefs and the rules we live our life by.


But it goes very much further than even that.

Our “feelings” and the emotions we experience about something that’s happened, an event could be totally and utterly false. Within a marriage we should put ourselves out to determine if what we believe is true is actually true. We need to hear “the other side of the story” before we know if our feelings are valid or not.


“Seek first to understand and then seek to be understood” is at the very heart of any communication. Within a marriage the partner that just lives within their own head, making all their conclusions and judgements and having their subsequent feelings without communicating to their partner does their partner a great disservice and their marriage a whole bundle of harm.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Everyone is entitled to their own feelings whether they are written down or kept in the mind. By writing them down, if I need to talk about an issue I want to take a few days to really think about what's bothering me. It may be so minor and not worth mentioning, God knows I'm a woman and I run my mind off of emotions quite a bit and sometimes these emotions are during PMS time:/. Then I have those thoughts of appreciation, I want to tell my husband how much I appreciate him in the right words. If I have an issue, I want to think it over to see if its worth mentioning or letting go and forgetting.

The OP is entitled to his feelings, good-bad or perhaps just one of the two. Writing a journal is therapeutic for some people. I feel better after I written things down. OP's wife is threatening divorce over OP's feelings instead of trying to work it out. Also, the wife should maybe not have been snooping unless she thought there was reason to. 

I do believe in transparency, but that doesn't mean I'm going to snoop through my husbands iPod, computer history, email unless there's a reason to. I'm not a controlling person.


----------



## Saki (Dec 7, 2011)

Hey 22 years,

I would be really interested to see a list of your priorities in life.

I'm guessing you put yourself somewhere around #17....


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I apologize for not reading all of the responses if this has been covered.

Did you say anything nice, complimentary, positive and/or kind about her in your journal?


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Yes - there were separate pages for such good feelings, but I admit - when things are fine, I don't need to write them down. So, there were far fewer entries for that page.

Mind you with respect to the entries she had a problem with - it was mostly trivial crap - little things (sometimes bigger things) she gets pissed at me for, for what I consider, no reason. 34 day entries over 260 days. So, very minor (in my opinion).

As for where I place myself on the pririorty list - it is not that low, since I don't have that long a list - however, I would say, I am near the bottom. (of say a list of 5-8 items). However, over the past 3 years, I have take a little time each day to exercise (well, at least 4 days a week), which may be simply a 1/2 hour run, or longer, or a mix of running and weights - which is rarely over an hour.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Her response is that if I can't take her at her worst, why should she give me her best. 

The Marilyn Monroe quote. Any woman who takes this quote seriously is an idiot. And why doesn't the same apply to her ?

Like other posters mentioned, she is a bully and is walking all over you because those tactics worked well for her for the past 23 years. Don't let her get away with disrespecting you so much. That thing about sex is obviously mean to hurt you. Don't let her get away after saying something like that.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> if I can't take her at her worst, why should she give me her best


 Well, when you've NOW been judged on your worst (thanks to your behavior), all you do is B!TCH...what do you want, woman? Grow up!


----------



## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Emerald said:


> I apologize for not reading all of the responses if this has been covered.
> 
> Did you say anything nice, complimentary, positive and/or kind about her in your journal?


One of the things my husband complained about when he read mine was that I hardly had nice stuff to say about him in there and what if the kids read that some day. I tried to explain to him that I only write in it when I'm conflicted and upset...but I can see his point.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

22years said:


> What should I do?? Is she now feeling guity in realizing that she gets pissed off at me alot??


I think I'd just drop the subject. If she wants to talk about something let her bring it up. If she does, be factual and brief. Don't take the bait to get into an emotional argument, and don't let her deflect or go off onto other rants.

Probably she is just hurt at the truth.

Also there is some manipulation in what she has said. My wife for example tried to make me feel guilty for "keeping lists of her transgressions".

I am also a hobbiest musician and my wife went ballistic over a song my daughter and I recorded. After seeing BB King in concert we were inspired to do a song with his signature style. The song is "It Hurts to Play the Blues", and the theme is that playing the blues reminds me of what you did. Somehow my wife took that song to be directed at her, and she was furious. Apparently we got the lyrics right so that everybody can read themselves into the song! And my daughter did a killer job on the vocals. There's nothing like music with your own kids.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

22years, there are some reddish flags for her having some kind of trauma history. Any chance of abuse, assault, an alcoholic parent, a mother who was a borderline, etc?


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Is a mountain being made of a molehill here?

A journal is a positive way to work through your negative thoughts. Used thoughtfully, it can help you prepare for constructive conversations about issues. So keeping a journal doesn't necessarily mean not communicating. It can be the exact opposite.

So your wife finds it, reads some negative things, and is upset. Conclusive proof that she is a human being!!!! Why not just reassure her...and make sure you also talk about any issues?

Hopefully you can relate entries in the journal to conversations you later had about those issues and that will give her some context.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

Thor - yeah, writing songs is also very therapeutic. She's not very supportive of that (history); and I have written tunes that express my feelings, both good and bad. Have to admit - strong feelings about something produce the best songs! Lol!

As far as childhood, other than a mother who wanted to be a princess but instead had to settle for blue collar, there is no scapegoat here.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SlowlyGW, 
Beware the Clarence Darrow routine your wife is using on you. 

If my W responded to my journal with that 'take me at my worst' nonsense I would just laugh and ask her:

Taking you at your worst - that means I love you despite your ummmmmm (quirks), yes. 

And then I give her this smile which means: you are now acting batshlt crazy, are you really going to proceed? 

And no matter what I would stay on that theme because that is what 'take me at my worst' means, it does not mean acting like a freakin doormat.


----------



## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

AFEH said:


> But he most certainly needs to justify to himself that his feelings are valid. And the only way he'll do that is by talking with his partner.
> 
> For me this is all about communication. For sure a partner should explain why they feel the way they do about something.


I agree that this is true WHEN an issue is current and needs to be addressed. But something that happened in the past and is no longer an issue except because she learned what he felt back when it happened is just a way to resume an unnecessary argument. 

It's not entirely accurate to say communication is key to a good marriage. It's more accurate to say "positive" communication is. Some couples have plenty of communication and drive themselves into the ground with all the criticism and blame it produces. 

By delving into the past, it introduces negative communication. What isn't the past for the OP is that she read his diary - something that is personal and private. If she comes back with "I can't believe you were so angry that I didn't take little Johnny to the ballgame!" there is absolutely no need for him to engage in that or to become defensive. If he does, and answers something like, "Well, you told me you'd take him and then you broke your promise!" it's a justification that cannot produce positive results.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

KathyBatesel said:


> I agree that this is true WHEN an issue is current and needs to be addressed. But something that happened in the past and is no longer an issue except because she learned what he felt back when it happened is just a way to resume an unnecessary argument.
> 
> It's not entirely accurate to say communication is key to a good marriage. It's more accurate to say "positive" communication is. Some couples have plenty of communication and drive themselves into the ground with all the criticism and blame it produces.
> 
> By delving into the past, it introduces negative communication. What isn't the past for the OP is that she read his diary - something that is personal and private. If she comes back with "I can't believe you were so angry that I didn't take little Johnny to the ballgame!" there is absolutely no need for him to engage in that or to become defensive. If he does, and answers something like, "Well, you told me you'd take him and then you broke your promise!" it's a justification that cannot produce positive results.


I have a very deep experience of these things Kathy.


In your example the time to resolve the issue was at the time it happened. To avoid confrontation by writing such a thing in a journal is a way of life that just builds up bitterness and resentment.

And then a couple like the OP “suddenly” discover there’s a whole load of stuff that’s been piled under the rug.


And that pile can be so full of bitterness, hatred and resentment that’s it’s simply not possible to work their way through it all such that it’s resolved.

And so the marriage dies it’s inescapable death when the last child leaves the home.


The OP has big time grudges that he allowed to accumulate in his marriage by hiding the things in a journal instead of confronting them and forgiving his wife as he went along in his marriage.


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

KathyBatesel said:


> I agree that this is true WHEN an issue is current and needs to be addressed. *But something that happened in the past and is no longer an issue except because she learned what he felt back when it happened is just a way to resume an unnecessary argument. *
> 
> It's not entirely accurate to say communication is key to a good marriage. It's more accurate to say "positive" communication is. Some couples have plenty of communication and drive themselves into the ground with all the criticism and blame it produces.
> 
> By delving into the past, it introduces negative communication. What isn't the past for the OP is that she read his diary - something that is personal and private. If she comes back with "I can't believe you were so angry that I didn't take little Johnny to the ballgame!" there is absolutely no need for him to engage in that or to become defensive. If he does, and answers something like, "Well, you told me you'd take him and then you broke your promise!" it's a justification that cannot produce positive results.


That's never an unnecessary dialogue. The OP is walking around carrying grudges against his wife! He's actually written them down to be recalled at any time he wants to!



If there is any hope for their marriage they have to go back into the past and resolve the issues that lay there like unexploded bombs in the present just sitting there waiting to go off bang when triggered.


They need a truth, forgiveness and reconciliation process if their marriage is to stand even the remotest chance of surviving.


----------



## 22years (Dec 5, 2012)

THese were not grudges...the entries were simply "she's an idiot" type stuff. For example, "T**** got upset with me today when I didn't hear her and she had to repeat herself." 

Stupid crap like that. At the time, yeah, I could have said, "Why are you getting annoyed at me for you having to repeat yourself"? She would likely have her reasons. I simply accept that she gets pissed at stupid things like this and writing them down helps me past my being offended - almost as if the paper/journal allows me to be upset and makes a mark in time that I have a right to be pissed.

My wife is not one who takes a situation and says, "ok, let's calm down, and think this through", where that is me. She's more the "WTF, I feel the way I feel and its too damn bad". While yes, I could take the same position, its been my position in our marriage to be the rational one. Which I have to say, sometimes really SUCKS!


----------

