# What if they carry a torch for AP-forever?



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Background- Husband had short online EA eight months ago. We have been in weekly counseling ever since. After all this time I believe he still carries a "torch" for the AP. They never met in person...and the EA ended at it's peak. 

He has lots of triggers (songs, drive in to work etc that are wrapped up in memories of her)....which to my rational mind makes no sense because it was so short and not at all based in reality. Pure fantasy. If you looked at my spouse on paper, he would seem like he has it all together.....so how could he be so mentally brainwashed by the power of this fantasy??? 

After all this counseling he seems to have the right/left brain battle....he knows it's illogical, stupid and has no future but he says the emotions are still so close to the surface...... yet knows he wants to be with me. I know there is NC but I don't have any guarantees that hes not "feeding" it within his own head. 

How can a EA have such lasting impact to this day....it's driving me nuts because I feel like I'm in the same space as a fictional perfected love in his head??? 


How does one live with their memory?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Give it time. I'm almost a year in NC and I had a strong trigger just three weeks ago. Get rid of the songs and files.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Sounds like what happened to me and I'm afraid I don't have a good answer for you - it makes no sense. It took a solid year to be over it for me. Time will kill it as long as he maintains NC.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Does talking about it make it worse or as out therapist says, "it diffuses the secrecy to talk about the EA as long as its in the service of healing.

It's not the main topic in our sessions but if at home and it comes up he shuts down or defends it? Defends as in doesn't want me to point out how illogical it was. Like even thinking of it churns up some positive longing for it.

He described it as not having closure bit that he didn't need closure, that its the "what ifs". Or that she was interesting but his life with me is more interesting and he wants this instead but she will always have a place in his heart....WTF


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

The in between this time of waiting is making me afraid to commit to him. I feel hopeless. Disappointed in myself that I am trying to be patient with him getting over her? Worst part is, she doesn't exist, not in the way he embellished her in his head. That is the hellish part. Like loving someone who has dilussions of grandeur.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

OUCH. DH, how miserable. Especially to try and 'compete' with a freakin ghost. Someone who never existed, at least not the way he thinks she does. I think that is likely true with all AP's. They show only their 'good side' to your WS. I just posted this in another thread. Its hard when your ws looks at the AP thru rose colored glasses, while judging you with the cold harsh lense of reality. They see your flaws. SHE has none. My H was like this during his EA and for mos afterward. I could say "you look good today babe" and he'd say "eh, thanks" and that was it. It meant nothing. However if SHE said "you look good today" OMG! surely the heavens had opened and bestowed an angel unto him....vomit. But unfortunately, its true. You represent reality. Bills. Sick kids. Taking out the trash. Forgetting to pick up his dry cleaning. The flu. Morning breath. and SHE is all bright eyed and bushy tailed in the am bc she wasnt up with his sick kids all night. She forgot HER H's drycleaning so she could hurry in to see him. She doesnt see him when she's sick. Or with morning breath. She always puts her best foot forward. As does he when he's with her. 

He doesnt know the difference or he cant draw the difference in real love and infatuation.

So what can you do? Well IMO you have two choices:

1. Wait it out and hope he comes around, which he likely will eventually. 

2. Leave him and have him let you know when you arent plan B. Personally I couldnt live with "she will always have a special place in my heart". Thats BS. It sounds like he likes it that way to me. The ws' I know of have all said "I WANT HER OUT!" and keep working until she is excised from their heads and hearts. they dont just accept that she is there to stay and expect you to do the same.

As I see it thats all there is. Do you see any other options?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

It's a strange thing to have happen to you. An EA is all consuming, it's an obsession that you focus on 24/7 for the most part, when it vanishes in the blink of an eye it's tough and traumatic (all deserved btw). I think ending in such a fashion can make it tougher to get over, hence his description of not having closure - I definitely had that feeling. 

As far as talking about it - hard to say. I really don't see much point in discussing it, you're not going to debate him out of it, and you could give some life to by having think about it. If YOU want to discuss it then by all means, but unless you want to I'd leave it alone. 

Don't be too patient with this. He can wallow in these feelings almost indefinitely. He may need a swift kick in the arse to get motivated to shut it down. Me - I was like your H in that I knew I wanted my wife - I knew I loved her - but I couldn't get the damn OW out of my head - read my thread. I kept it to myself though, never was I going to subject my wife to watching me mourn the death of my EA. I shoved it in a box, locked it up and threw away the key until it was dead. He needs to make up his mind to kill it and let it be dead and buried.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

The fact that they know so little about how the other is makes it all the more appealing.

This way, they can be the perfect woman in their minds. Just like when you see an attractive person and fantasize about how they are like. The intrigue and mystery goes away and reality sets in when you hear their voice and their actions. Their faults kick in.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I agree here so much. Your H cant expect you to just accept this. Basically, it is what it is so deal with it?? No sorry. He doesnt get to bleed all over you about her"special place in his heart". Thats total hogwash. 

As Sig said:* I kept it to myself though, never was I going to subject my wife to watching me mourn the death of my EA. I shoved it in a box, locked it up and threw away the key until it was dead. He needs to make up his mind to kill it and let it be dead and buried*.

Its too much for him to ask for you to watch him miss her. Its one thing when I knew my h was missing her a bit in the beginning of NC. Having some withdrawl. BUT never did he say to me "She will always have a special place" NO he worked HARD to rid himself of her. I knew it was there but he never bled on me about it. This is his cross to bear. If he just accepts that she will 'always' be there in his heart- then she will. He needs to re focus on his marriage. And perhaps find someone else to bleed on about this issue. But he's got to stop being the victim here.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

jameskimp said:


> The fact that they know so little about how the other is makes it all the more appealing.
> 
> This way, they can be the perfect woman in their minds. Just like when you see an attractive person and fantasize about how they are like. The intrigue and mystery goes away and reality sets in when you hear their voice and their actions. Their faults kick in.


My worry is the same. I wanted my WS to go ahead and marry OM so that she can see the imperfections. It's too difficult to compete with the fantasy of not living with that real OM and staying with BS, makes OM more appealing.

I maybe wrong, one of the reason I wanted D over R is that with D, I can expect my WS to miss BS more than OM !!!


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

John2012 said:


> My worry is the same. I wanted my WS to go ahead and marry OM so that she can see the imperfections. It's too difficult to compete with the fantasy of not living with that real OM and staying with BS, makes OM more appealing.
> 
> I maybe wrong, one of the reason I wanted D over R is that with D, I can expect my WS to miss BS more than OM !!!


so? You think " I'll just let her go live with him, that'll teach her" huh????? NO. Think of all the damage taht will be done to your marriage during that time. IF you want to R and she does too, then do so but you cannot say "well go try that out for a while then you'll see how great I am". Because it may take a week, a month, or a year to figure it out. Then how much damage is done to the marriage while she is with him? 

I dont know your situation but this sounds irrational to me. I get that you want her to pick you over AP. And if you dont feel she is doing that then leave but if youre looking to keep the door open I wouldnt divorce her. NOW, you can file for divorce but you have to mean it. You have to be willing to lose it all. You dont divorce her hoping she'll go with OM and miss you. You tell her "its me or him" plain and simple.

sorry for the TJ BH. Back to you.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

canttrustu said:


> so? You think " I'll just let her go live with him, that'll teach her" huh????? NO. Think of all the damage taht will be done to your marriage during that time. IF you want to R and she does too, then do so but you cannot say "well go try that out for a while then you'll see how great I am". Because it may take a week, a month, or a year to figure it out. Then how much damage is done to the marriage while she is with him?
> 
> I dont know your situation but this sounds irrational to me. I get that you want her to pick you over AP. And if you dont feel she is doing that then leave but if youre looking to keep the door open I wouldnt divorce her. NOW, you can file for divorce but you have to mean it. You have to be willing to lose it all. You dont divorce her hoping she'll go with OM and miss you. You tell her "its me or him" plain and simple.
> 
> sorry for the TJ BH. Back to you.


Thanks but I can't overcome the pain of what WS has done to me, so going for R is so difficult for me. It's only 4 months from the DDay. Sometimes I feel D is good over R and close the chapter !!!

And once my WS told me that somewhere down the lane, she would prefer OM which makes me feel that WS still has feelings for OM and I can't live with that, so I feel it's better to let my WS go..


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Thanks but I can't overcome the pain of what WS has done to me, so going for R is so difficult for me. It's only 4 months from the DDay. Sometimes I feel D is good over R and close the chapter !!!
> 
> And once my WS told me that somewhere down the lane, she would prefer OM which makes me feel that WS still has feelings for OM and I can't live with that, so I feel it's better to let my WS go..


Perfectly understandable. R isnt for everyone. 

Good luck.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

John- I get that same way to. Sometimes it's a daily problem to forgive and try to put it behind us. How does a BS describe that feeling that our spouses heart was once a cozy place for us to dwell alone but is now crowded and we are struggling to breath???

They let someone else in..... and I have a hard time sharing. Four months is not long at all.....you are at the starting gate. I would expect you to still be in the struggle. In fact I would be _worried_ if you were already over it???? Affairs of all kinds are traumatic and they are supposed to break us open. Our worlds are upside now. It's expected that their should be collateral damage. 

I would chalk up what your wife said about preferring the other man to be still in "fog" talk. I would pay more attention to that if she utters it two years into your recovery. 

As CantTrustU said-- you divorce based on what YOU can't live with. No one would fault you if you can't forgive. If the pain is too much then you have to look out for yourself first. However, maybe allowing the pain to settle a bit before. You might have a different perspective on that pain 6 months from now. 

Time-- that magical element that is supposed to heal us.....oh how I wish this time would hurry up and do it's work yet while I wish for it to heal my wound I recognize how many other things I'm missing out on in this _rush_ to the finish line. 

Here's the kicker about my spouse...I wouldn't say he is "subjecting" me to his longing, but I feel his emotional energy change if he triggers.

You know how you _know_ your partner so well that you can almost "smell" the problem they wrestle with???? It lies there under the surface and once in a while it bubbles to the surface and you feel it on them??


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Sigma- **" I shoved it in a box, locked it up and threw away the key until it was dead. He needs to make up his mind to kill it and let it be dead and buried."

<---can you share some practical tips that you used to help quell the triggers? Mental tricks? Almost like 12 steps to stopping the mind movies?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Yeah sigma...


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> John- I get that same way to. Sometimes it's a daily problem to forgive and try to put it behind us. How does a BS describe that feeling that our spouses heart was once a cozy place for us to dwell alone but is now crowded and we are struggling to breath???
> 
> They let someone else in..... and I have a hard time sharing. Four months is not long at all.....you are at the starting gate. I would expect you to still be in the struggle. In fact I would be _worried_ if you were already over it???? Affairs of all kinds are traumatic and they are supposed to break us open. Our worlds are upside now. It's expected that their should be collateral damage.
> 
> ...


daggeredheart, in my case, I've all the chatting contents and as you know our WS live in fantasy land so the chatting contents are all about their wonderful times. Now my worry is that living with me, I can't bring that fantasy and mentally my WS will always compare those good times with the boring times we'll have !!!

Knowing my WS, I can say with confidence that she was basically enjoying the attention and she never had any intention of leaving the married life, of-course what we all say cake-eating. And she is happy to come back to married life but I can't let go the triggers.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm right there with you. Online affairs are escapes from the mundane. They seem perfect and "heaven sent" in their perfection and in the role they play in providing those distractions. 

I can't help but see the parallels to "It's a Wonderful Life"..... some WS can't see that the marriage is the real _treasure_ to be cherished. 

Our counselor described the hook or attention/bait of the affair is how they are "reflected back in their own eyes" It's the adoration, the wonderfulness of being put on a pedestal. 

I didn't have all teh chat logs...just a few but when I read them I was somewhat relieved to see they were so juvenile....almost childlike. Yet I never discounted the threat it was to my marriage. Not because I saw them as childish but because _he_ believed it to be a deep love.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

daggeredheart said:


> Sigma- **" I shoved it in a box, locked it up and threw away the key until it was dead. He needs to make up his mind to kill it and let it be dead and buried."
> 
> <---can you share some practical tips that you used to help quell the triggers? Mental tricks? Almost like 12 steps to stopping the mind movies?


I kind of came to think of thoughts of the OW as playing whack-a-mole. Every time she'd pop up in my head, I'd whack the thought of her out. That sounds kind of silly and trite but that's really the nuts and bolts of it. It's a conscious decision to not wallow or dwell on thoughts of the OW. He can't control what pops into his head but he can choose not to indulge in those thoughts when they happen. What your really after is for him to lose the feelings associated with the thoughts. Just the thought of her really isn't that big a deal - it's the feelings that are of consequence. He has to choose to not indulge those feelings - it's like going NC with her inside his own head. If he can keep from indulging those feelings long enough they will eventually die - it's kind of like strangling something - if he lets up, even for a second, and those feelings get a gasp of air they keep on living. 

Practically it's making a commitment to himself and to you to run her out of his head. It can be as simple as training himself to think of something else specific when the OW enters his mind.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I kind of came to think of thoughts of the OW as playing whack-a-mole. Every time she'd pop up in my head, I'd whack the thought of her out. That sounds kind of silly and trite but that's really the nuts and bolts of it. It's a conscious decision to not wallow or dwell on thoughts of the OW. He can't control what pops into his head but he can choose not to indulge in those thoughts when they happen. What your really after is for him to lose the feelings associated with the thoughts. Just the thought of her really isn't that big a deal - it's the feelings that are of consequence. He has to choose to not indulge those feelings - it's like going NC with her inside his own head. If he can keep from indulging those feelings long enough they will eventually die - it's kind of like strangling something - if he lets up, even for a second, and those feelings get a gasp of air they keep on living.
> 
> Practically it's making a commitment to himself and to you to run her out of his head. *It can be as simple as training himself to think of something else specific when the OW enters his mind.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> How can a EA have such lasting impact to this day....it's driving me nuts because I feel like I'm in the same space as a fictional perfected love in his head???
> 
> 
> How does one live with their memory?



This is a tough one and I know exactly what you're going through. My wife had an EA with a golfing acquaintance which morphed into a PA after one year. In the "fog", the EA/PA partner is perfection - the key to happiness. At the same time, the DS looks at his/her marriage and sees nothing but problems - and they re-invent the marriage history to one where there was nothing but friction, control, and strife. It is a total fantasy. There are no reality checks, no work pressures, no family pressures - nothing but puppy love. And they compare this short-term puppy love fantasy to the reality of your own long-term relationship (with all the ups and downs which come with a long-term commitment).

*It is impossible to compete with a fantasy. Until your spouse snaps out of it, there is almost no point in trying - all you will do is compare unfavourably to the fantasy which still exists in their head.*

Using my own situation as an example: My wife led me to believe that it was "just an EA" (which I discovered in 2010 one year after the PA had finished). It was only AFTER my wife and I separated and she moved out (two months ago) that she admitted to the PA (EA started 2008 - PA happened summer 2009 ended that fall). I actually contacted the POSOM after I found out about the PA (started a thread about it a few weeks ago). He furiously denied it then, the very next day, my wife tried to retract her confession - saying she made up the PA in order to "help me" to let her go. 

So THAT is how strong the fantasy is - more than 4 years after the EA started and 3 years after the PA ended , and my wife is still covering up for the POSOM (who has re-married and has a one year old child). BTW, the POSOM cheated on his fiance (now his wife) with MY wife (who is 13 years older than him). My wife knew that he had a first wife (with two kids) then a fiance as well as another girlfriend. The POSOM was playing around and using my wife for free golf and free sex. Yet she STILL defends him. 

You can't make this stuff up!!


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> This is a tough one and I know exactly what you're going through. My wife had an EA with a golfing acquaintance which morphed into a PA after one year. In the "fog", the EA/PA partner is perfection - the key to happiness. At the same time, the DS looks at his/her marriage and sees nothing but problems - and they re-invent the marriage history to one where there was nothing but friction, control, and strife. It is a total fantasy. There are no reality checks, no work pressures, no family pressures - nothing but puppy love. And they compare this short-term puppy love fantasy to the reality of your own long-term relationship (with all the ups and downs which come with a long-term commitment).
> 
> *It is impossible to compete with a fantasy. Until your spouse snaps out of it, there is almost no point in trying - all you will do is compare unfavourably to the fantasy which still exists in their head.*
> 
> ...


Cedarman, my question how is your wife doing now? Does she still recollects those good puppy moments or does she regrets it?


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Cedarman, my question how is your wife doing now? Does she still recollects those good puppy moments or does she regrets it?


My wife is totally screwed up right now, IMO. Unable to focus on work, unable to focus on herself, unable to focus on our kids (who are with me more than her). She has a group of single toxic friends who keep her busy - out late clubbing, but it's a very shallow existence. She is in IC - but only twice a month and it's the same counsellor we saw for MC - I was not impressed by her skills. She needs a psychiatrist. ETA: To outsiders, my wife is still an incredibly successful professional and dedicated Mother. So she carries herself well - but she is very screwed up still about her EA/PA and trying to recapture that "Love drug".

As for the puppy love recollections - I think my wife is STILL living the fantasy that she will be able to re-kindle those feelings with somebody else (not me - I am now "too old" for her). She is looking for love in a younger demographic and the odds are she will crash and burn eventually. She is 48, and looks terrific - could pass for mid-30's easily - but is using all sorts of medical assistance to maintain her "youthful" looks. Eventually, gravity and age will win and she will be left with an equally shallow younger guy who will likely cheat on her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Did he ever speak to her on the phone?


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Sigma- would you say that whack a mole game got easier as time went by? I've heard about the substitute a marriage memory over the affair as a antidote and I believe he uses that.....but the brain seeks out those "rushes" of the forbidden sometimes. 

I can only hope that time indeed softens those feelings.......and I worry what time might do for my feelings towards him in that time period.


Cedarman- "defending" the affair is such a deep cut to us....my spouse has done that whenever I try to bring logic into the equation... for instance he talked about certain songs being a "trigger" and it was _such a big part of my life_ and I said..."oh really, a two week affair was a big part of your life???" and he was "you don't even need to go there"...... ugh.. 

A part of him wants to protect the fantasy.....maybe he needs to have that fantasy to feel like his affair had some legitimacy? 

Similar to the prom queen who doesn't want to go to the 25 year reunion because she knows she "peaked" back then and realizing those days are long gone can be a horrible reality check.


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> My wife is totally screwed up right now, IMO. Unable to focus on work, unable to focus on herself, unable to focus on our kids (who are with me more than her). She has a group of single toxic friends who keep her busy - out late clubbing, but it's a very shallow existence. She is in IC - but only twice a month and it's the same counsellor we saw for MC - I was not impressed by her skills. She needs a psychiatrist. ETA: To outsiders, my wife is still an incredibly successful professional and dedicated Mother. So she carries herself well - but she is very screwed up still about her EA/PA and trying to recapture that "Love drug".
> 
> As for the puppy love recollections - I think my wife is STILL living the fantasy that she will be able to re-kindle those feelings with somebody else (not me - I am now "too old" for her). She is looking for love in a younger demographic and the odds are she will crash and burn eventually. She is 48, and looks terrific - could pass for mid-30's easily - but is using all sorts of medical assistance to maintain her "youthful" looks. Eventually, gravity and age will win and she will be left with an equally shallow younger guy who will likely cheat on her.


Thanks Cedarman, by any chance she told you why she is to not able to focus on work, on herself, on our kids ?? My WS has the same problem but she is not opening up. Is it because of guilt or something else?


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Elegirl- well she was in Iran and he in the US so they tried to do a voice chat program via the phone....basically where you record what you want to say, hit send...then the other person listens and does the same back. So you can hear a voice but not in real time

They never skyped because she always had a excuse.."her hair was cut off" ...etc etc.... so they only exchanged photos via ipad. Hers were usually in various outfits..underwear.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

It definitely gets easier - if you stick to the program. 

It sounds a lot like your H is still hanging onto his EA, like maybe he's not yet fully remorseful. Defending the affair is one of two things - 1. he's holding onto it and doesn't want you to tarnish the memory of something he holds so dear. 2. He hasn't yet fully faced what he was involved in so when you try to point out just how stupid it was he doesn't want to see it. Either 1 or 2 are impediments to reconciliation. 1 because he still wants his AP, 2. because he hasn't taken ownership of his actions.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

John2012 said:


> Thanks Cedarman, by any chance she told you why she is to not able to focus on work, on herself, on our kids ?? My WS has the same problem but she is not opening up. Is it because of guilt or something else?


Yes about work. And she keeps saying how she needs space to "heal herself". Everything is about her. As for the kids, up until last week, she only had them every other weekend. The rest of the time, they were with me. Last week was the first week where the kids stayed with her during the week - so she had a taste of the hours as a single parent (my kids are both competitive swimmers so have early morning practices as well as after school). She did not look overly happy at the end of the week - very tired actually.

I am in IC and it has helped tremendously - just having a place to vent. My IC counsellor has a theory that my wife, because of her culture (she is Chinese originally from Singapore) - is ashamed and avoids the past in order to "save face". I know that she is very embarrassed and ashamed - especially about her lies. But she won't talk about it. That's the biggest roadblock to any reconciliation in the past and in the future. It is easier for my wife to cling on to the fantasy vs facing her mistakes. And I have not helped because MY personality needs some sort of remorse and admission on her part. It ain't happening. 

BTW, my STBXW's toxic friends are chasing the same fantasy - all trying to out-do each other with younger men - but not ONS - they are all trying to find their "soul-mate" in men 10 - 15 years younger. In nightclubs. They are ALL failing...

But the fantasy is a powerful and addictive drug...


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Yes about work. And she keeps saying how she needs space to "heal herself". Everything is about her. As for the kids, up until last week, she only had them every other weekend. The rest of the time, they were with me. Last week was the first week where the kids stayed with her during the week - so she had a taste of the hours as a single parent (my kids are both competitive swimmers so have early morning practices as well as after school). She did not look overly happy at the end of the week - very tired actually.
> 
> I am in IC and it has helped tremendously - just having a place to vent. My IC counsellor has a theory that my wife, because of her culture (she is Chinese originally from Singapore) - is ashamed and avoids the past in order to "save face". I know that she is very embarrassed and ashamed - especially about her lies. But she won't talk about it. That's the biggest roadblock to any reconciliation in the past and in the future. It is easier for my wife to cling on to the fantasy vs facing her mistakes. And I have not helped because MY personality needs some sort of remorse and admission on her part. It ain't happening.
> 
> ...


One of the very typical character traits I've observed in WS is that "Everything is about he/her". It's so annoying to listen to them: they want BS to understand their financial constraints their pain, their workload, their need of space and what not..I'm facing the same situation and that is what is causing me to pull the D plug.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

John2012 said:


> One of the very typical character traits I've observed in WS is that "Everything is about he/her". It's so annoying to listen to them: they want BS to understand their financial constraints their pain, their workload, their need of space and what not..I'm facing the same situation and that is what is causing me to pull the D plug.


My wife has never asked how I am doing. Not once. It is almost like SHE is the victim. She was off in her new condo, no kids, no responsibilities beyond going to work - total freedom, yet SHE needs space to "heal herself". On our 25th anniversary - I took my daughters out to a great restaurant and we had a great time, and created new, happy memories and possibly a new tradition. My wife? She went clubbing with her toxic friends, then acted like a victim when she picked up the kids the next week. She is good at feeling very sorry for herself and her situation. Incredibly selfish. It is this sense of entitlement which creates the justification for the EA/PA as well as clinging to the fantasy.

That's why I am trying to move on too. Admittedly, it is very difficult - but will hopefully get easier with time...


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## John2012 (Sep 18, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> My wife has never asked how I am doing. Not once. It is almost like SHE is the victim. She was off in her new condo, no kids, no responsibilities beyond going to work - total freedom, yet SHE needs space to "heal herself". On our 25th anniversary - I took my daughters out to a great restaurant and we had a great time, and created new, happy memories and possibly a new tradition. My wife? She went clubbing with her toxic friends, then acted like a victim when she picked up the kids the next week. She is good at feeling very sorry for herself and her situation. Incredibly selfish. It is this sense of entitlement which creates the justification for the EA/PA as well as clinging to the fantasy.
> 
> That's why I am trying to move on too. Admittedly, it is very difficult - but will hopefully get easier with time...


WOW..It's so common. My wife never asked me how I'm doing. Whenever I say that I'm pain, she will say, she is also in Pain. So I stop talking to her about my Pain. I even told our MC about it. I told we don't talk much about EA because she is not ready to listen to my Pain. My wife was even expecting me to help her financially when she was in deep EA. When I cut her off from credit card etc, she emailed me saying, she is deep down in EA and on the top of it I added financial problem to her. What are they thinking?? Total lack of concern for me is what is causing me to move on...


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

You know, you guys might be on to something here. Generalizing here and this doesn't apply to every WS of course. Perhaps in order to have a affair in the first place there has to be a touch of narcissism, hence they never ask how YOU are doing or are able to support you emotionally as you go through this crisis. That lack of concern was perhaps there all along but in the beginning of a romance we overlook those traits. 

I think there could be truth to the fact that the problem lies within them if they are still dissatisfied and acting out in their life when you are out of the picture?


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## changednow (Dec 2, 2012)

But back to You Daggeredheart:
It sounds like she was probably full of it. Catfish anyone? But I think yes, they can get over it. My husbands EA was fortuantely with a girl he worked with. He got to see her warts and all day in and day out. And when she started to take advantage of him, he was getting sick of it. Her charm started to wane. Then she told me some enormous lies, he claims. I made my stand at that point, they were not going to be "just friends" anymore, or I would be gone. He agreed that it had gone too far. He struggled a bit with wanting to ask her "why"(insert whiney voice)But she pulled some more crap and tada, he wants nothing to do with her. That was about 5 months ago. I dont know if he gets trifggered (I do sometimes) but he keeps it well hidden, as he should. Your husband owes you the same. Try to remember you are the one right there, right now. You have the advantage, make beautiful memories, grow closer and show him that you are the reason he has the life he has now.
Make him watch Catfish. Online relationships are almost always lies and bs.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Thank you for your words- there's the rub...and why I must admit that I'm a bit envious of the situations where the affairs have a beginning, middle and end. It reaches it's shelf life and the returning spouse seems to have no more limerence for the AP. 

In the best cases..the AP turns all fatal attraction and the WS really comes to their sense and feels like they dodge a bullet and has a renewed appreciation for the marriage. 

Here's another ironic twist....he's a computer security expert and has always thought everything on the net is a lie....and was distrustful of everyone on the net or so I thought....but he let her in. 

In my revenge fantasy.....she turns out to be a 85 year old man sitting in Oklahoma City in a wife beater shirt, nursing a bad case of gout...... and all the pictures "she" sent were from sports illustrated  ---- course in reality that doesn't make me feel one bit better.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree with Sigma in that there really is only one way to remove her, and that is the beating her out of his head. But he needs to want to do this. The other thing is closure...more tricky. More tricky because it involves the other person.

I have met people and had that infatuation. 2 big ones. 

I met a man on holiday once, holiday romance. I came home and was besotteed. I was planning on going back to visit him and all sorts. I met my long term partner shortly after getting back and was good for about 4 years til I began to be unhappy. Then this man crept into my head and remained. I had known him for 2 weeks, in his company 3 times, and 4-5 years later I became besotted again. I tried to look him and another friend up that I'd met on holiday. I tried writing. I gave up. I let my man know I was getting in touch with my 2 friends, my girl friend and holiday romance. I have always been very honest and open. I am sure he was not happy, he didn't say so, but I was not going to do things behind his back. It was just after 9/11, a good excuse to make more effort to find them both, and I met the friends in NY. Anyway, fb came along and I found him. I said hi, how was he. We exchanged a couple of messages and that was it. He had married and had a child on the way. And that was it. That was my closure. He is still on my fb. I have never messaged him since that 1st finding of him and I don't think of him any longer. At all.

The other one, I met him on a camping trip and did not stop thinking of him for about 9 months after. Every day. Nothing had ever happened between us. I was with my LT partner and he was split up from his wife at this point. I saw him again the following year on the next camping trip and the infatuation started again. Then the following summer me and my long term partner split up due to his actions. I bumped into this camping trip man later that summer on a night out. He made a play for me. I was very keen as I was now single. Then I found out, from him, he was still with his wife. That was closure on that infatuation.

So really, your husband needs to want this infatuation to end. The safest way is for time to work its magic. But there are other ways, very very risky though. Maybe you could both seek her out together and make her get on that Skype? I really don't know. I don't want to alarm you with my stories. But as you can see, the long term infatuation, the 1st one, only appeared by a deep unhappiness in my relationship. The 2nd one, also as a result of deep unhappiness. I had many infatuations in this relationship. But in a good marriage? I think time and his wish to remove her is your best bet. But I also think a bit of co work on it may help too?


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