# Can I live with the suspicions, or the truth?



## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

H and I are in therapy for a month now. Married over 20 years, and I just found out he has been frequenting several strip joints, over at least the past 4 years. I totally by accident caught 3 visits on the charge bills, then dug further to reveal the extent. When charging visits, he also took out a good amount of cash. Other times, he took cash only. 

These all on nights when he said he was somewhere else-business, his weekly pastime(don't want to reveal-could identify), out with "the guys", or if I was away. I confronted him, and the story changed at least 3 times in our initial "conversation", as to the extent of these visits. It eventually came out that lap dances were included. I am talking about several each month. One night may include $3-500 charges, plus $400+ cash. 

My nightmare(other than that) is that tomorrow, I plan on bringing up the fact that I know more than he thinks I know. I have discussed this with the therapist, and she has guided me to do it in a way that he does not feel trapped. We are, after all, trying to salvage our marriage. He is cooperative with therapy, but we have not yet "discussed" the clubbing issue in depth. We have been working on communication. We are pros at "spiral" arguments that deteriorate quickly.

However, the past few days to a week have been good, and he thinks things are ok, as far as the clubs. I think that is because I do not bring it up. It is to volatile right now. I don't want to discuss it much, unless the therapist is present. She has also been guiding me to try to get him to open up to me. I have been trying, but I know him, and he will not, unless confronted with the facts. I am quaking inside.

My main concern, right now, and what the therapist asked me is: My evidence is pretty damning. If my suspicions are confirmed...can I live with the truth?? How can I live with these suspicions??? Any advice, especially with experience of either getting the horrible truth out, or accepting what you know, then going forward, would be very appreciated.

We do have two children-a young adult attending school, and a high-schooler.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

I think you should reveal it in a counseling session. It needs to be out on the table that you are aware of it an he needs to understand its impact. Part of recovering a marriage is setting boundaries. If you don't set them the pattern will continue.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

Thank you for your input, Amplexor. My stomach is in knots. I just don't want to blow it. He is a very defensive type of guy. The therapist has stressed that I let him know what MY feelings are, not to attack him, that he did something bad(even though he did). But, I also need to preserve my self-respect. God, this is so hard...I would never want to put someone through this. I never thought I would be doing this.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

workin' said:


> . The therapist has stressed that I let him know what MY feelings are, not to attack him,


Developing empathy can be a powerful tool in gaining a happier and stronger relationship. Have your therapist give you some tips on how to communicate how you feel. He/she is right on the money here. Good luck.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Just wondering what is it about his behavior that bothers you the most.

You have the right to be upset about all of it. Is it mainly the fact that he went to strip clubs, the fact that he lied about going, and/or that he's spent a lot of money when he's went - or is it the entire picture?


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

Funny, nice777guy, that is one of the things our therapist asked me. The whole picture, to me, is bad. 
1. The lying. I feel I am now questioning everything. I do not trust him to go to the gas station right now. I feel this need to scrutinize everything, and I don't like to do that. I suspect constantly. 

2. The strip clubs. His story has changed several times, as to his activities there, and who he went with. It makes me ill to think of his hands on another woman, and hers on him. I am not naive to not believe that ANYTHING can happen there, for a price. I went to some forums and reviews for the places(at least4, maybe 5) in question. I, personally feel, if spouses have not agreed that this is acceptable to both, it is not acceptable for either to do. Hopefully, today I will find my suspicions are wrong.

3. The money. He is the money-maker in our home. We agreed that I would stop working to raise our kids. I have not worked in 20 years. He puts great importance on the fact that he provides us with everything. I have always been a very frugal spender. I do not spend $$ on clothes, beauty shop, shoes, furniture, toys, etc. With things the last couple of years being so bad, I have worked out ways to save some money on our monthly bills. With him talking about our bills being high, reminding everyone to turn off lights, etc., I find it ironic that he feels free to spend sometimes close to a grand a night on this "pastime". I see charges for several hundreds of dollars(funny, most charges are for a dollar amounts, plus 10%-20%[tip??]), plus cash withdrawals from the ATM for several more. On average, about once, twice a month.

So, yes, the whole thing bothers me. I am very nervous about our session today, as I feel I need to know what I am dealing with, before I can decide what is the way I need to go. I just don't know how I will feel, if my suspicions ARE true. I really want to salvage our marriage, and I think he does too, but right now, if this situation is brought up, his response is somewhat like, "wow, you still thinking about that?", you know?


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## GlowinWish (Sep 10, 2010)

What was his response, afterall? I will add that if his response is "wow, you still thinking about that?" then he is completely invalidating your feelings and your right to need reassurance, and that laughing things off or acting like your worries are ridiculous shows he is not caring for your emotional well-being and to actively assume the responsibility he has as your husband to restore your faith in him by apologizing to you and promising to make changes, and then make them.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

In order to move forward, you need to insist on the truth. Suspicions allow the imagination to work overtime. Suspicions have no boundaries. Only through truth can trust be gained again.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

Wow, I though this thread was long gone.Thank goodness for email notification! I really appreciate your concern.

This may be a long response, now! We are still in therapy, and am happy to report, that we are doing very well. 

He realized in therapy, and finally admitted that he did cheat on our relationship. He is consciously working on the empathy, and not only with this situation. THAT is a big issue! He is also working on being less of a “bulldozer” during “discussions”. I am working on standing up and speaking up for myself, and letting my feelings be known. I am also working on finding something pleasurable and rewarding/satisfying for me, as I am a stay-at-home wife/mom, and feel the need for self confidence.

He realized in therapy, and finally admitted that he did cheat on our relationship. He did not want to admit it, when I told him that that is exactly what I FELT he did. He also realizes that it is something that will always be with us, now. I told him that, to me, getting sexual gratification from another, even from a “dry-hump”, is being unfaithful to me, and our marriage. The therapist asked me if I would mind leaving the room, and she spoke to him alone for about 2 minutes. He had tears in his eyes, and then is when he admitted that he did cheat on our relationship. I went no further than that. I accepted his confession, and decided to move forward. As far as him hiding things again, the therapist said to both of us that he would be a fool to ever try this again, or to ever go to a strip club in secret, or hide what he is doing, because he WOULD be found out, and she was understanding that I WOULD divorce him. I completely agreed with her. That is in no way to say that it does not still bother me greatly, but I can better consciously stop myself from dwelling on the bad, and plan for the good.

I have decided that I will not insist on the details of his unfaithfulness( I do consider it this, whether he had intercourse or not), but go forward from here. The therapist asked me point-blank, if I thought I could go on with my marriage, not knowing a single more detail of whatever went on. It was a hard decision to make, but I believe it is entirely possible that he did NOT have intercourse with another woman. 

We have agreed that I will now have control over the financial accounts, as far as keeping records, etc. I have full access to finances. He seemed to not really realize how much money he had spent. I did sit down with him and showed him much of the records I had gathered for the past 4 years. He is understanding what I am dealing with, and that it has been a tremendous hurt, and that he has risked losing US.

He is spending much more time at home, even skipping some work meetings that he had to go to regularly before. We are spending more time together, and enjoying it! He has not returned to his weekly group, and says he probably should not. I agreed, and told him that he needs to remove the temptations, somewhat like the “No Contact” mentioned here a lot. Not that he is chained to the house, but he does realize that it is still difficult for me when he is away. I could barely function one night, when he did have to go to a meeting, and had a couple of drinks after dinner. He does now call me when he is on his way there-from work, he does not stay late, and he calls on his way home. 

He will have moments of thought, when he wants to talk about how he feels about what he has done. Painful as it is to me, I let him talk, because I need to know how he is feeling too, right? He says when he sits and thinks of what he has done, he cannot believe it of himself. It is not the man he thought he was, and certainly not the man he wants to be. He also lets me know that he is thankful that we are working things out, and that I did not walk away.I truly think he got caught up in something way bigger than him, and he is taking responsibility for it, and really working on our marriage. I had prepared and read a statement, which he tried to interrupt-once-and the therapist stopped him. I laid it all out, something I could not have just done by speaking my mind. I had to prepare to lay my soul out, and do it in a way that he understood. I told him all the things I was feeling...all the things I had thought of doing to him.... and how I never thought I would stay in a situation like this, but for the sake of US, I was willing to try, THIS TIME. He asked for a copy of the letter, and keeps it and re-reads it. Our therapist had suggested cutting back on our sessions, as we are doing so well, but Hubby asked if we could continue somewhat on the same schedule! He said, for now, it is helping him keep his priorities on track!

One last thing...I was out of town recently, for a family health crisis, and HE actually reassured me that I had nothing to worry about, as far as him being away from me, and that I could trust him, and that he loved me. It makes me feel good that he thinks about how I may be feeling. I actually wasn’t thinking much about it, since he had our kids with him, thought it had crossed my mind.

Sorry for the length. I am usually not this “wordy”, but it has been awhile.


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## Anonny123 (Aug 11, 2010)

Workin - I am so happy to read your thread. I am currently seeing a therapist and we're working on how to communicate my suspicions and and unhappiness in a productive way. 

Glad to hear that you guys are working it out. i give you a lot of credit for forgiving him and for believeing he won't change. I really hope he learned his lesson. For him to do all he has so far, I think you have a good shot.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

@Anonny123,
One of many things I have learned here, is that even though my situation was so devastating to me, others are in worse situations. My heart goes out to you, as you work to rebuild. I'm afraid, if I were in your situation, I would definitely be working on getting my own life in order-as a single woman. It seems your husband has many addictive behaviors, which only HE may be able to stop, with professional help. Don't let him drag you down any further.


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## Anonny123 (Aug 11, 2010)

Thank you workin' - your reply speaks VOLUMES. You're right. I should not let him drag me down - I am too good for that!! :smthumbup:


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

OK, therapy for over 5 months now. Things are progressing. One little snag is that I do not have FULL access to his communication. I have access to home email, and financial records, BUT he has a work email account, and his cell is through work. When brought up in therapy, he said, "Well all that stuff is work related. You want to go over my hundreds of work emails and phone calls?". We did not take that further, and it nags at me sometimes, especially when I read about FULL disclosure. Sure, he is home most of the time now, but it would be POSSIBLE to be hiding something, and these avenues were left available.

Question: Do I risk causing a bump in the road, by asking for access now? How do I do it-just ask or bring it up in therapy? Do I just drop it, unless I have strong suspicions?


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

That's an interesting point. Is his work related communications classified or confidential? I would see what the therapist thinks. I know with my estranged husband I could not have accepted that. The minute he knew I could not access his work communications, he would be using those accounts for his girlfriend contacts. How much do you trust your husband? If he is actively working on the marriage, not lying about other stuff, and his time (& money) are accounted for, I would probably give him some slack on this one. However, if he starts acting distant and seems to be hiding stuff, then you'll need to see the work communications.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

workin' said:


> Do I just drop it, unless I have strong suspicions?


In my opinion with today's technology full disclosure is a pipe dream. There can always be a false email address or an undisclosed cell phone or mobile device. When it came right down to it, when I felt my wife had ended all contact I let it be. If she wanted to stay in contact she certainly could try and hide it. And if she did, sooner or later she would slip up, they always do. I elected to trust in her and expect her to respect my boundaries.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Amplexor, you make a good point. 
My take is the only real insurence we have is the fact that we have gone through this experience, and with experience there it knoldge. If I caught her the first time I can catch her again.

I still check the technology stuff, but her behavior will truely give her self away. I believe that my W past affiars were able to accure only b/c I dismissing her in everyway. Now that I am more attendive I believe it will be more difficult to hide. Now that I'm more attendive she will not need an affair.


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

Amplexor said:


> And if she did, sooner or later she would slip up, they always do.


Our therapist suggested similar. She said that she believes that DH understands that he would eventually get "caught", if he strays again, and he realizes that I will walk. She asked him, and he said yes. She asked me, and I said yes.

I guess I am still dealing with feelings of so much stuff going on for so long, and I had no clue. Well...I would have had a clue, if I had suspected him earlier, but like so many others, I did not even think this would happen.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

workin' said:


> I guess I am still dealing with feelings of so much stuff going on for so long, and I had no clue. Well...I would have had a clue, if I had suspected him earlier, but like so many others, I did not even think this would happen.


Guess we're both a little older, a little wiser. Good luck.


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