# Phones passwords, Email, Facebook etc?



## dingerdad (Nov 23, 2011)

This is my first post. I have read a lot of threads throughout my seperation with my fWW and continue to do so through R. I believe this site has saved my marriage. I have a long story that I will post on here at some point. Short form is my wife had a 10 month mostly EA with a man she met through work. I say mostly because they met a few times and had sex on one occasion. I know this for a fact as I have seen a lot of thier correspondence. My Question is how important is it to get my wife's phone passwords, email passwords, etc? I knew all of these during the last few months of my wife's affair and it did me no good. She simply created email accounts I didn't know existed. She would also delete any messages from the OM as soon as she read them. I was very suspicious during the last few months and would go through her work phone and her personnel cell every chance I got with a fine tooth comb and I never found anything. Same with emails and Facebook. The way I look at it now is that if she wants to hide something she has gotten pretty good at it and I would not be able to find it. I would probably drive myself nuts looking for something that isn't there. She has written the no contact letter, committed to me and our marrige. She has started going to friends and relatives that have been hurt by this one at a time and apologizing for the hurt she has caused. She has offered her passwords etc to me because everything we have read recommends this but I turned them down for now. I want to be done being a detective and continue working on my marriage. Any advice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madwoman (Oct 20, 2011)

You may not feel you need her passwords now. Tomorrow may be different. It does get old playing dic. It seems easier to try to trust than keeping a double life. Until something feels off.

Take the passwords. Install keyloggers on all computers. Get her a phone that just calls. No text or internet. I have to ask is she still working the same job? Have you exposed to her boss, and the OM's spouse? 

Doing these helps assure there is no further contact. For me it's always at the back of my mind the what ifs......I've been married for 28 years, and chose to stay blind. Events have unfolded in ways that have my eyes open, and I realize I am married to a stranger. 

That I have to keep looking is for me so that I don't go back into my blindness. It's a sort of hell from which I cannot seem to escape. 

Look up 180. It will help you while you heal.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

That's why you need computer monitoring software like Webwatcher, or some other program.

Best Computer Monitoring Software 2011 | Reviews, Ratings & More

The good ones will not only log keystrokes, but take screen shots as well, and it will upload the logs where you can view them online without having to touch the target computer. It all depends on the program you want. Heck, mine is set to take a screenshot every time she clicks the mouse button, how is that grab ya? The software will detect her attempts to create secret email accounts.

Then you need a VAR. Here's some examples:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips+-+Voice+Tracer+Digital+Voice+Recorder/2596305.p?id=1218338417967&skuId=2596305

Walmart.com: Sony ICD-BX8112 Digital Flash Voice Recorder: iPods & MP3 Players










You want to be done being a detective? Then fine, you can hide your head in the sand. But if you want to fight for your marriage, then you will *TRUST BUT VERIFY*.


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## dingerdad (Nov 23, 2011)

I have been through all the pain and hurt that many people on here have talked about. I did the 180 when she was moved out of our home and it was really good for me. Before I allowed her to move home she wrote the no contact letter and committed to doing the work needed to making this right and saving our marrige. I am past the 180 and am working on the issues that caused the marriage breakdown as is she. She has taken full responsibility for the affair. This affair occurred in two stages. The first began with what I think was what a think was a textbook walk away wife. I was blindsided, tried to do everything to fix things etc. We Legally seperated at this point and that is when her EA turned physical. It ended with the OM ending it and exposing everything to his wife. This is when I found out. I took my wife back at that time, she told me her passwords etc, and we started marrige counseling. She told me there would be no contact but I've learned now it never really stopped. They both agreed it was for the best that they go back to thier marriages but they stayed in contact for months as friends. Of course it turned into another EA. I found out when the OMW found some emails and called me. I asked her to leave and she did. Now she is back in the home and we are in R. She works in the same company as the OM but in different towns. He has given his notice to quit his job so I have not asked her to quit. She has talked to her boss and he will help her with no contact untill he is done. Yes, I exposed her to everyone. 

The reason I don't really care about password and stuff is because I really feel if she wants to contact him or be with him then she should just go. I have told her this. She doesn't have to hide it. Just tell me and leave. I am honestly at the point now where if anything else happens I'll file for divorce and be ok with that. Why drive myself nuts constantly checking up on her? I just want to keep learning and being the best husband I can be and if that's not good enough now then ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

Transparency is healthy, it's not about checking up on each other is about trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

dingerdad said:


> I have been through all the pain and hurt that many people on here have talked about. I did the 180 when she was moved out of our home and it was really good for me. Before I allowed her to move home she wrote the no contact letter and committed to doing the work needed to making this right and saving our marrige. I am past the 180 and am working on the issues that caused the marriage breakdown as is she. She has taken full responsibility for the affair. This affair occurred in two stages. The first began with what I think was what a think was a textbook walk away wife. I was blindsided, tried to do everything to fix things etc. We Legally seperated at this point and that is when her EA turned physical. It ended with the OM ending it and exposing everything to his wife. This is when I found out. I took my wife back at that time, she told me her passwords etc, and we started marrige counseling. She told me there would be no contact but I've learned now it never really stopped. They both agreed it was for the best that they go back to thier marriages but they stayed in contact for months as friends. Of course it turned into another EA. I found out when the OMW found some emails and called me. I asked her to leave and she did. Now she is back in the home and we are in R. She works in the same company as the OM but in different towns. He has given his notice to quit his job so I have not asked her to quit. She has talked to her boss and he will help her with no contact untill he is done. Yes, I exposed her to everyone.
> 
> The reason I don't really care about password and stuff is because I really feel if she wants to contact him or be with him then she should just go. I have told her this. She doesn't have to hide it. Just tell me and leave. I am honestly at the point now where if anything else happens I'll file for divorce and be ok with that. Why drive myself nuts constantly checking up on her? I just want to keep learning and being the best husband I can be and if that's not good enough now then ok.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You separated TWICE, the first time because OM confessed to his BW, the second time because she took it underground and you found out. You took her back the first time because OM threw her under the bus, but they somehow reconnected, so they took it underground. So she l_ied, lied, and lied some more_. And now that OM is quitting, *you expect her to tell you honestly *if she wants to contact or be with him?










You're the back up plan. What consequences has she suffered since you refuse to monitor her? Or when the next OM comes along do you expect her to tell you straight up when she has lied and gone underground on you twice?


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## dingerdad (Nov 23, 2011)

He didn't end it this time. She did. She has chosen me and she has chosen to come back to the home. This is fact. I have no doubt of this. I have seen the correspondance. His marriage has ended
and he ended it to be with my wife. I told her that if she wanted him to go and we would get a divorce.The consequences she faced when she was exposed were hard for her. She lost our children( I had them 5 days a week). They are 3 and 5. I exposed her to all her family, my family and friends. We live in a small town so word spread pretty quick. She felt a lot of anger and disappointment from everyone. She lost her home. Most of all she lost me. She is doing everything and more to make this right and repair the damage that has been done to our marrige. As I said she has offered up all passwords etc but I turned them down. I told her that there may be times when I ask to see her phone or email and when I ask I expect instant access. She agreed. This is more for myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dingerdad (Nov 23, 2011)

I just don't understand constant monitoring when it is so easy to hide correspondence if you put a little work into
It. It'll just take my focus off working on rebuilding the marrige. I learned through this that no matter how hard you try and hide something, lies get exposed and the truth comes out. Maybe I'm way off on this though. What would be the advantages to constant monitoring? I don't think even if there was something to
find I could find it. She has told me all the ways they hid there communication before and unless I hired a dectective to follow
her 24/7 I would never have found it. I had all her info before and I found nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Someone else take this. I'm tired of explaining to the newbies over and over and over again why monitoring is essential for stopping any fishing and rebuilding trust.

Do you lock your doors at night? Because if burglars really wanted to, they could break into your home even if you lock your doors and windows, right? So why bother locking them?


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## dingerdad (Nov 23, 2011)

I understand from reading other threads. Maybe I just don't want to do
It anymore. I'm beat down, tired and sick of being suspicious and hurting. All the websites and advice I've got
says get the passwords so I will get them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

dingerdad said:


> I understand from reading other threads. Maybe I just don't want to do
> It anymore. I'm beat down, tired and sick of being suspicious and hurting. All the websites and advice I've got
> says get the passwords so I will get them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then maybe this is a deal breaker for you. Everyone has what they consider theirs. Some can forgive an EA, some a PA, some even a long term affair with the spouse giving birth to an OMs child. If you don't want to monitor anymore, then so be it. Its your marriage, your life. If your WW is that good a cheater, then why stay married to her at all since you'll never trust her. Since you say you're beat down and tired and sick of being suspicious, then why stay married to her? This shows you're mentally checking out of the marriage already anyway. There's nothing wrong with this being a deal breaker. Its okay to let her go if you cant trust her anymore.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

So without verification how will you regain trust?


Blind trust is the problem here and you almost seem relegated to give her that once again when she clearly doesn't deserve that.


You will always wonder in the back of your head if she is still cheating. Even with spying (like keyloggers which you should do and since her boss is on your side then I would ask permission to get one on her work computer or have him monitor her, also a VAR) you will still have doubts, but at least if you cover the best ways she can cheat it will help you regain trust in the long run. 


Am I certain that my wife never cheat or isn't cheating right now?

not 100%

and that's fine with me, I'd rather have a touch of mistrust to keep my marriage in check a bit to always reassess where we are at. To me that is better than blind trust.

I put all of the puzzle pieces together and not just the spying tools that I use. I include her actions and willingness to help me into account. It takes one heckuva mastermind to hide an emotional affair from one who is actively looking for it and knows what to look for.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

I think all this need to constantly monitor a spouse is pointless. From what I gather after reading hundreds of posts the odds are extremely good all you are doing is dragging out the inevitable divorce. If they've disengaged enough from a marriage to lie, cheat and treat you like garbage what's the point of taking them back and expecting any kind of genuine lasting change?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I put all of the puzzle pieces together and not just the spying tools that I use. I include her actions and willingness to help me into account. It takes one heckuva mastermind to hide an emotional affair from one who is actively looking for it and knows what to look for.


:iagree:

I too have 2 areas that aren't covered. She has her own computer in her own office. I do not have access to that or her work phone, so she can take it underground there if she wants to. I have to take a leap of faith. But knowing what I know now, I know what to look for. If there's one thing about affairs that I've learned, its that its literally like a drug due to the brain chemistry involved. They have that need to stay connected. And if she were still in it, the limited contact thru computer or phone at work will not be enough to sustain it and she will try another way outside of work - then I've got her.

So I can't say with 100% surety, but it keeps me on my toes.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> I think all this need to constantly monitor a spouse is pointless. From what I gather after reading hundreds of posts the odds are extremely good all you are doing is dragging out the inevitable divorce. If they've disengaged enough from a marriage to lie, cheat and treat you like garbage what's the point of taking them back and expecting any kind of genuine lasting change?


Not all marriages are beyond hope of reconciliation, it just seems that way here. The monitoring is for those who want to try R. The purpose is two fold: To ensure NC, and to rebuild trust. Know what happens after your hypervigilance stage passes and you've been monitoring constantly and you never find anything? You start to relax again. Along with your WSs actions, you start to trust again, a fraction at a time. Soon, you will be monitoring less frequently than before. More time goes by and you still continue to find nothing, and the actions of your spouse have become "normal" again. Trust is slowly being rebuilt because you can verify that what your fWS is saying is the truth. You may even get to the point that you actually forget to monitor, or have a hard time remembering when the last time you monitored. For me, the last time I checked was last week....I think. I can't remember.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I'll offer up a different perspective for you. I was the one who had an EA and my wife's position was exactly like yours. I offered all of my passwords ect... and she refused them and still does. I asked why and she said that I was the more tech savvy between us and that if I wanted to contact the OW and hide it from her that I would and could. She was right, I can beat her at the tech game but everyone gets sloppy or lazy at some point and will get caught. After she told me why she didn't want my info the next sentence she said was this, "If you do and I catch you, you're toast" and she means it. 

I have gone out of my way to reassure her by telling her every single time the OW sent me anything or tried to contact me in any way, and my phone and passwords are always available to her. All in all she feels like you and I have made and continue to make sure that her faith in me is not misplaced, so it's really a question of if you believe you're wife will do the same for you.

One last thing - FWIW - had she used a VAR in my car it would have busted me far faster than anything else she could have done.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Not all marriages are beyond hope of reconciliation, it just seems that way here. The monitoring is for those who want to try R. The purpose is two fold: To ensure NC, and to rebuild trust. Know what happens after your hypervigilance stage passes and you've been monitoring constantly and you never find anything? You start to relax again. Along with your WSs actions, you start to trust again, a fraction at a time. Soon, you will be monitoring less frequently than before. More time goes by and you still continue to find nothing, and the actions of your spouse have become "normal" again. Trust is slowly being rebuilt because you can verify that what your fWS is saying is the truth. You may even get to the point that you actually forget to monitor, or have a hard time remembering when the last time you monitored. For me, the last time I checked was last week....I think. I can't remember.


In the meantime years of your life that have already gone down the toilet are added to that could have been spent finding someone else who wants to be with you. 

You check the reconciliation boards on most of these divorce forums and all you hear are disillusion, fear and crickets. Reconciliation does happen and seems to stick when a OM or OW is not involved, but spending two-five years playing KBG with your cheating spouse seems like a waste of a decent loving person's life. None of us deserve to have to live this way, I think fear of a fresh start is what holds us back from letting them go for good.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

*1. Remorse.
2. Voluntary Transparency.
3. Independant Verification of Activity. 
*


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> *1. Remorse.
> 2. Voluntary Transparency.
> 3. Independant Verification of Activity.
> *


4. Years of Doubt regardless of what they do


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> In the meantime years of your life that have already gone down the toilet are added to that could have been spent finding someone else who wants to be with you.
> 
> You check the reconciliation boards on most of these divorce forums and all you hear are disillusion, fear and crickets. Reconciliation does happen and seems to stick when a OM or OW is not involved, but spending two-five years playing KBG with your cheating spouse seems like a waste of a decent loving person's life. None of us deserve to have to live this way, I think fear of a fresh start is what holds us back from letting them go for good.



not the case in my situation in the slightest


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> 4. Years of Doubt regardless of what they do


more like decreasing doubt as the months progress and faithfulness is verified


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> 4. Years of Doubt regardless of what they do


.......sigh.......

Not the point...

Maybe look at it like this...

There is no cure for the common cold. It's gotta run its course. 

But there are things that can help with the symptoms, make your suffering more bearable and cut down the recuperation time.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

infidelity is more like a cancer than a cold in a relationship. Some can happily work it out, but I don't see much evidence of it in any of the forums I've read in the last six months. Some threads have gone on for two years with the LBS hanging on through multiple R's only to have to face the fact it's not working. It would appear that your best bet is to move on and look for a better life. Once you get it chances are very good you won't want them back, or at least you'll have more than enough strength two years down the road to have them show you without any shadow of a doubt they want to come back.


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## dingerdad (Nov 23, 2011)

I think the R has been really good so far. She is very involved. I did ask for the passwords and she gave them to me without even asking why. She has been doing a lot of reading and learning about us recovering from her affair so she understands the importance. "She said yes, here they are. Full disclosure. If there's anything else you need let me know. I love you." She really is being amazing in helping us get through this. I don't think there is anything more I could ask her to do that she isn't already doing. The hurt is still there but her actions are really minimizing the resentment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> infidelity is more like a cancer than a cold in a relationship.


The cold thing was just a loose analogy. You got the point I assume. Nothings gonna cure it, but that shouldnt stop you from treating it to the best of your ability. If for no other reason than to ease your own suffering.

But, I do agree infidelity is closer to cancer. I also agree that the chances of lasting reconciliation are for most a mirage bourne of denial and desparation. 

The damage is catastrophic and can never be fully assesed until much later.

I think most people that are initially confronted with a unfaithful spouse jump with both feet at the opportunity to reconcile... I don't think they have a clue what they are signing on for. True lifelong reconciliation is not an event, it's a journey. An incredibly long, tough journey. Worse than that, it takes 2 people commited to the hard work on that journey... and you already know going in, one of them is a liar and a cheater. lol.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

It seems that you have decided to accept her passwords, and that's good. You must know that if you truly want to recover your marriage, you must put in work as much as she does. I know it seems wrong since after all she is the one who wronged you. 

You keeping vigilance and monitoring her is something you must do not only to heal yourself and learn to trust your W but also to "save your W from herself". You must understand that she has been in love with this OM for many months, and she still carries around this deep feelings and urge to contact him. Her knowing you are monitoring her should help her from re-contacting him.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> You keeping vigilance and monitoring her is something you must do not only to heal yourself and learn to trust your W but also to "save your W from herself". You must understand that she has been in love with this OM for many months, and she still carries around this deep feelings and urge to contact him. Her knowing you are monitoring her should help her from re-contacting him.


I can't agree and/or stress enough how true this is. I would never have had the strength to quit my EA had I not known I had to be accountable to my wife.


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## madwoman (Oct 20, 2011)

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> infidelity is more like a cancer than a cold in a relationship. Some can happily work it out, but I don't see much evidence of it in any of the forums I've read in the last six months. Some threads have gone on for two years with the LBS hanging on through multiple R's only to have to face the fact it's not working. It would appear that your best bet is to move on and look for a better life. Once you get it chances are very good you won't want them back, or at least you'll have more than enough strength two years down the road to have them show you without any shadow of a doubt they want to come back.


My aren't you jaded? Sometimes we need to go through it. Sometimes knowing as opposed to not knowing is point. You can't paint every relationship the same. If the BS finds out using the various ways to catch them, they get to choose how to handle the next step.

That is better than the WS carrying on, getting every choice, and blindsiding the BS. 

The hardest part of all this for me is not being given the truth, not having a say in what happens. You think everything is okay, then you get the slap in the face! Maybe once, but not twice........

It's about being fully informed. Some people get it and some don't.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I still "snoop." I feel the urge decreases as time goes on and I find nothing. Just today I said to myself, "What am I doing? Do I really expect to find anything?" Maybe that's the beginning of the end of the regular snoopage for me. But if my wife wanted to, she could find technical ways of beating my radar.

Call me naive, but what I do not believe my wife could fake is the intimacy we share now. I knew something was wrong the first time because we were distant and I saw warning signs. I ignored it because i was naive, blind, and a dumb-ass. Now that I am more in tune with my wife's emotional health, I don't think she could get to the point of having an affair without me being extremely uncomfortable. I feel like if my wife was starting to disconnect from me or express concern over our relationship, I would be all over it before she could send a sext message.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

COguy said:


> I still "snoop." I feel the urge decreases as time goes on and I find nothing. Just today I said to myself, "What am I doing? Do I really expect to find anything?" Maybe that's the beginning of the end of the regular snoopage for me. But if my wife wanted to, she could find technical ways of beating my radar.
> 
> Call me naive, but what I do not believe my wife could fake is the intimacy we share now. I knew something was wrong the first time because we were distant and I saw warning signs. I ignored it because i was naive, blind, and a dumb-ass. Now that I am more in tune with my wife's emotional health, I don't think she could get to the point of having an affair without me being extremely uncomfortable. I feel like if my wife was starting to disconnect from me or express concern over our relationship, I would be all over it before she could send a sext message.


:iagree:

As time goes by and their actions match their words, and you continue to find nothing, the urge really does fade with time.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

madwoman said:


> My aren't you jaded? Sometimes we need to go through it. Sometimes knowing as opposed to not knowing is point. You can't paint every relationship the same. If the BS finds out using the various ways to catch them, they get to choose how to handle the next step.
> 
> That is better than the WS carrying on, getting every choice, and blindsiding the BS.
> 
> ...


Not jaded, just reality talking based on the evidence found on this forum and dozens of others. Early on I would have welcomed a reconciliation, but I was fortunate it did not happen. What I originally knew to be true six months ago wasn't near as bad as what I know now about the A. I would gone through the pain over and over again for another six months as the truth trickled out, and then always wonder if there was more. It's best to just let them go and not waste anymore of your life. 

If they want to come back later they will, but it's better if you've had enough time to get strong enough to make the right decision without the emotional strings too taunt to make a good choice.


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