# Are Male Only environments still important?



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I'll admit for awhile being a bit baffled as to what the point of this section is. I thought the original intent was to provide the men of TAM a virtual man cave to come and be ourselves; shoot the ****, speak from our collective perspective, a place to voice ourselves a bit more unencumbered than we do in more mixed company elsewhere on the board. In the ongoing battle between the sexes I think the Clubhouse and Lounge are inspired ideas.

The reality isn't really panning out that way from what I can see. Seems a good percentage of the threads around here are created by women, for varied reasons and agendas.

This has me thinking about further reaching implications well beyond the social microcosm that is TAM. It seems what's happening here is just a small scale reflection of greater western societal shifts that see once male dominated, homosocial spaces being increasingly challenged to become more gender inclusive and accepting. 

How important are ****-social activities, and environments, to you personally? Do you think the classic "no girls allowed" matra still holds any great significance in an increasingly heterosocial society?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I have no desire to be in a male-only environment. I think it is OK to have groups / discussions that happen to mostly appeal to men or women, but I don't mind at all if anyone of either gender is interested in joining.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I have no desire to be in a male-only environment. I think it is OK to have groups / discussions that happen to mostly appeal to men or women, but I don't mind at all if anyone of either gender is interested in joining.


Is that a changed perspective with time, or has it never been of importance to you?


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

I do not care for them myself, but men who tend to be loners may do well in a strictly male only environment.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Are they important to YOU? An online venue would be tough to police. But if you want a man only opportunity in your life, make one! More power to you.


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## What Are My Options (Mar 28, 2015)

Environments? 

Sure

Locker room? Yes
Bathroom? Yes 
Public Forums? Nope
Private Forums? Have at it

Do I want a girl on the boys wrestling team? No
Do I want a girl on the boys football, baseball, basketball team? Don't mind that if they can handle it the same as the boys

I think your initial expectation of the Men's Clubhouse is unfounded. It was just an quick assumption from a label essentially. 

There are a few places I do find the ladies intrusive but I wouldn't be ignorant about it. None of those places are on TAM either.

I do think exclusion of one gender in private organizations should be legal without any fuss.

I think it's cool there are females drivers in motorsports. I do wish there was more focus on their results than their gender.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

What Are My Options said:


> Environments?
> 
> Sure
> 
> ...


My daughter fights with boys at her jui jitsu gym. Kicks butt. Is that bad? The other students of the art don't think so. And this is a very grappling style. Shrug.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Unisex bathrooms scare me. I wouldn't be able to pee with a girl in the room.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

It's important for me to have a little buddies time, brother time, sons time, dad time. But we do a lot of couples stuff too though. Variety I guess but I wouldn't like not having the opportunity to golf or ride or whatever without my wife once in a while.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> Unisex bathrooms scare me. I wouldn't be able to pee with a girl in the room.


Can you PLEASE explain this to my son?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> Are they important to YOU? An online venue would be tough to police. But if you want a man only opportunity in your life, make one! More power to you.



Yeah, I already do, thanks.

This thread is for discussion on a topic, an attempt at discourse, not a search to fill a personal void in my own life.


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## antechomai (Oct 4, 2013)

I think they are important for discussion.
I do not think they can exist online.

The only male only activities I've experienced are:
1. A counseling group 16 years ago
2. A Cursillo event
3. My current church's guy's get together and have a burger and a beer.

I'll have intimate conversation with my wife, but conversations at that depth with women outside of your marriage are bonding events to be avoided.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

The introduction of a girl onto a hitherto all boys team? I can understand the frustration of the boys, having their safe, homogenous world altered by the presence of a girl.

Still I'm of the mindset that if a female can actually cut it physically along side the males, more power to her. Rarer is the female who can be physically competitive at the more demanding levels, without the standard being lowered, so the ones who can go toe to toe? Why not let them?


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

jaquen said:


> How important are ****-social activities, and environments, to you personally?


They are important to me, but I'm not sure the idea works so well in internet discussion where one of the unique things about it is that we are basically just disembodied minds.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

jaquen said:


> Yeah, I already do, thanks.
> 
> This thread is for discussion on a topic, an attempt at discourse, not a search to fill a personal void in my own life.


Well yah. I get that. The you I was referring to was more collective. I just don't see an online forum as working well that way.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> They are important to me, but I'm not sure the idea works so well in internet discussion where one of the unique things about it is that we are basically just disembodied minds.


I meant for the discussion to spread beyond the boundaries of TAM. Thinking about the decidedly un-clubhousey feel of this section just got me to contemplating broader stuff. And it's that stuff I hope sparks good conversation.

But if we're talking about online discussion? Yes it is a bit difficult for me to understand the motives behind the women who constantly post in this section for reasons other than genuine interest in a male POV. The opposite is true, assuming it happens anywhere near as frequently in the Ladies Lounge. I wouldn't know, I can't muster the motivation to spend much time in a section marked "ladies lounge".


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> Well yah. I get that. The you I was referring to was more collective. *I just don't see an online forum as working well that way.*


Why do you imagine that is?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

When I first joined TAM, the men's clubhouse was primarily posts made by men (for men) and the ladies' lounge was posts made by women (for women). Occasionally there would be encouragement by the OP for the opposite gender to give feedback if so inclined. 

But now we may as well smoosh the two forums into general imo. Not saying it's a bad thing but community forums will change if there's no rule guiding the forum, and nowhere do I see "men only" or "women only" in the forum description.

Eta: I'm fine with male/female only, doesn't bother me.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

jaquen said:


> Why do you imagine that is?


For myself, if asked to stay out of the men's clubhouse, I would cheerfully comply. I would hope hope that men would do the same in the ladies lounge. I notice that the majority, or near, in the ladies lounge of male posters there. But what are you going to do? Put a gender radio button on people's profile and restrict them?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

If one wished to create a male only environment, you have the opportunity to do so here on TAM.

You create a private social group and make it invite only.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

But in short, yes.

Male only environments are still important.

It simply depends upon the environment.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

jaquen said:


> I meant for the discussion to spread beyond the boundaries of TAM. Thinking about the decidedly un-clubhousey feel of this section just got me to contemplating broader stuff. And it's that stuff I hope sparks good conversation.
> 
> But if we're talking about online discussion? Yes it is a bit difficult for me to understand the motives behind the women who constantly post in this section for reasons other than genuine interest in a male POV. The opposite is true, assuming it happens anywhere near as frequently in the Ladies Lounge. I wouldn't know, I can't muster the motivation to spend much time in a section marked "ladies lounge".


I always have chuckled about the descriptions to the two subforums. One is something like talking about life's dilemmas (solving problems) and the other is sharing support (*****ing). Interpretation clearly mine. 

For my part, I am not sure I even think there IS a gender based PoV. When I chat with DH about this board, there are male posters that he thinks are whack and female posters that he thinks are whack. I think that there is a higher level of participation on this board of men who are unsatisfied with their marriages than women. There are more satisfied women it seems to me. And to be very honest, he thinks there is a higher level of men on this board who are whack. Shrug. Maybe that means you DO need a safe board for men to share opinions. I don't know.

Let me know when it is time to leave.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

My friends and I have guys only weekends whenever we can, though much to some of our wives chagrin it had evolved to 3 of 4 times a year. Guys weekend in appealing city in he northeast. NFL draft weekend. Camping/hiking weekend. Fantasy football draft weekend. 

My wife allows me these excursions, and had never complained. Perhaps because I moved a few hours from home when we married. Other wives are much less understanding, though if you knew my friends that would be understandable.

I've always interpreted the men's and ladies sections here as primarily open to everyone, though the topics more gender-interest specific but not neccessarily completely relatinoship oriented.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> Unisex bathrooms scare me. I wouldn't be able to pee with a girl in the room.


Not into water sports, eh?


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

As far as forums like TAM goes, threads have been created where the title requested only replies from one gender. They are few in numbers though.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Poker night with the guys was always a good time. Crass jokes. Farting. Peeing off the deck. Overeating and not worrying about the crumbs on your shirt. Making fun of the night's biggest loser. 

I wouldn't be strictly opposed to having a woman there, but she'd have to be one tough lady to fit in and feel comfortable. 

Haven't done that in years.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

As a teenager I was very nervous around girls. if there were more socialization I think I would have gotten over that more quickly.



jaquen said:


> Is that a changed perspective with time, or has it never been of importance to you?


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

The male only environment in football is good for my son, so I do think its important. 

The one thing I noticed in places like meet up is that there is a section for women, meet up groups that are for women only. There is no section titled men. I wonder if its because if they had a group that said men only then they would get backlash. 

It's the same with the commercials that encourage girls to go into the sciences and the ban bossy stuff. Nice that they make commercials to empower girls but where are the commercials that encourage boys?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> I wonder if its because if they had a group that said men only then they would get backlash.


There inevitably would be. Historically too many institutions were boys clubs, even in places where there was no relevant reason, such as most jobs and higher education. Still is that way in some areas. So there is an underlying sensitivity in many women regarding explicitly stated male-only gatherings. It's one thing if they self select, but many don't appreciate having the option taken off the table all together, even when technically inappropriate.

It's understandable, but I do have mixed feelings about it. On one hand a long history of disenfranchisement, and a fight to correct that, will create a necessary need to focus more on the sensitivities of one group over another, at least until the balance is more organic and settled. On the other hand the pendulum often does swing too far in the opposite direction, causing a whole new host of issues. Hence the growing movement men's rights movement, something that still rings as odd in a post-feminist world.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

jaquen said:


> There inevitably would be. Historically too many institutions were boys clubs, even in places where there was no relevant reason, such as most jobs and higher education. Still is that way in some areas. So there is an underlying sensitivity in many women regarding explicitly stated male-only gatherings. It's one thing if they self select, but many don't appreciate having the option taken off the table all together, even when technically inappropriate.
> 
> It's understandable, but I do have mixed feelings about it. On one hand a long history of disenfranchisement, and a fight to correct that, will create a necessary need to focus more on the sensitivities of one group over another, at least until the balance is more organic and settled. On the other hand the pendulum often does swing too far in the opposite direction, causing a whole new host of issues. Hence the growing movement men's rights movement, something that still rings as odd in a post-feminist world.


Very philosophical but spot on. As a caucasian male I understand that the pendulum swings and have no issue with it. Time corrects over corrections that are generated as a result of past injustice.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> I always have chuckled about the descriptions to the two subforums. One is something like talking about life's dilemmas (solving problems) and the other is sharing support (*****ing). Interpretation clearly mine.
> 
> For my part, I am not sure I even think there IS a gender based PoV. When I chat with DH about this board, there are male posters that he thinks are whack and female posters that he thinks are whack. I think that there is a higher level of participation on this board of men who are unsatisfied with their marriages than women. There are more satisfied women it seems to me. And to be very honest, he thinks there is a higher level of men on this board who are whack. Shrug. Maybe that means you DO need a safe board for men to share opinions. I don't know.
> 
> Let me know when it is time to leave.


I must now use the word whack all day tomorrow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

chaos said:


> As far as forums like TAM goes, threads have been created where the title requested only replies from one gender. They are few in numbers though.



And they are blithely ignored.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

jaquen said:


> There inevitably would be. Historically too many institutions were boys clubs, even in places where there was no relevant reason, such as most jobs and higher education. Still is that way in some areas. So there is an underlying sensitivity in many women regarding explicitly stated male-only gatherings. It's one thing if they self select, but many don't appreciate having the option taken off the table all together, even when technically inappropriate.
> 
> It's understandable, but I do have mixed feelings about it. On one hand a long history of disenfranchisement, and a fight to correct that, will create a necessary need to focus more on the sensitivities of one group over another, at least until the balance is more organic and settled. On the other hand the pendulum often does swing too far in the opposite direction, causing a whole new host of issues. Hence the growing movement men's rights movement, something that still rings as odd in a post-feminist world.


Well, yes and no.

I am sure there were many establishments which were designed for and by men to exclude women for the purposes to keep their manicured fingers off the levers of power and commerce. This was a thing.

BUT, not every institution was specifically designed for that purpose any more than a bunch of women getting together for ice cream, Gray's Anatomy (or whatever they watch) is some man hating conspiracy.

It is occasionally nice to be in a single gender group and say scandalous things without the nannering from always annoying interlopers telling men (or women) how incredibly offensive they are and there ought to be a law against whatever has their panties or jockeys in a bunch.

Freedom of expression. Because you don't need freedom of expression to talk about the weather. Whether it's a senseless offensive joke told by a guy or some woman saying men need to get the ef over themselves in a place where one won't get shouted down.

That being said, and to keep this from being a male/female war zone as much as possible, women have worked very hard to tear down and pry open these male social groups...and men have not replaced them (or perhaps been ALLOWED to replace them. Hard to establish male institutions when women keep suing them) and it seems to pretty clearly be hurting their ability to socialize. Men have a hard enough time doing it. They need a goal to do so.

Because an all male environment is a MALE place. When females enter, they want equality...but suddenly equality means that men need to curb their tongues, not engage in 'stupid' male activities, or pass boundaries which are not of male making, understanding or desirability. VMI and Augusta were pried open.

And yet...I can look down the street and see a Curves All Female meeting place in every town and strip mall.

All Animals are Equal. Some Animals are more Equal than others.

Somehow men need to learn to socialize more and better.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
The whole male club issue is tricky because of the interaction of social meetings and business. Being excluded from clubs can put women at a real disadvantage in their careers.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm 49 and the men's clubs we are talking about here weren't around in my fathers time. So my question is how long is this "corrective swing going to take? I don't think it's swinging back. I do think that Male only environments are important. The situation now is that as soon as one is established it is attacked and invaded. In fact this thread is more about whether all male environments should be allowed, than whether or not they are needed.

First place an all male environment is needed. Cub scouting. Education in the United states is now optimized for female minds, boys are competing on an uneven playing field. They need time away from that competition in an environment designed for them. 

Second place an all male environment is needed. Sports. Young men need a place to test their physical prowess against their peers. I cringe at the thought of putting boys int dance at this age because it focuses on rhythm and grace as opposed to strength stamina and skill. Young men need to learn how to use their bodies in a low risk environment. Girls presence adds too much pressure. They can't push their limits if they are afraid of showing weakness. 

Third place an all male environment is needed. Adult men need a group and place where they can relax from the expectations of society. This takes many forms. Men in my neighborhood have a standing pick up basketball game. Some guys have poker night. Some camp, hunt , or fish. Now none of these activities are necessarily female exclusive and there are some women who seem to understand and allow the men to relax their standards. Some just pop in and make sure the food and drinks are taken care of. Men are generally less protective of their men's only time than women. Part of that is that we like women. Women who understand what the men need should have no fear of these gatherings.

Now to the real point of this thread. Do men need their own forum in a relationships website. I think that there are definitely some topics that men need to discuss without being told they are rude, crass, gross, or disrespectful. I also believe that women should be able to ask outside anonymous men to explain that weird thing their husband / SO just did. 

I think the gender specific areas should be maintained and that posters should feel free to preface their questions with requests like "I need men's opinions". It should be generally acknowledged that any thing you post here may be read by anyone. 
MN


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> The whole male club issue is tricky because of the interaction of social meetings and business. Being excluded from clubs can put women at a real disadvantage in their careers.


That cut ice in the 50's. That cut ice in the 60's.

Today, you have women's forums, women's mixers, women mentoring programs and at least 40% or more of the workforce is WOMEN.

So no, that dog don't hunt no more.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

JCD said:


> That cut ice in the 50's. That cut ice in the 60's.
> 
> Today, you have women's forums, women's mixers, women mentoring programs and at least 40% or more of the workforce is WOMEN.
> 
> So no, that dog don't hunt no more.


I'm going to go the other way on this.

I was in a frat in college. Then I went to work on Wall St. Basically, Wall St is a large club of Ivy League frat dudes. The culture is pretty much the same and if you have not had that experience you may find it hard to relate to many of your colleagues.

Many of the women who come into that environment try to adapt to that culture but it is not a natural fit. They drop out for a variety of reasons but I think there is a cultural boys club element.

I don't really think this will ever change because it hasn't yet.

I'm also in favor of male only clubs too, so I guess I'm part of the problem.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> I'm going to go the other way on this.
> 
> I was in a frat in college. Then I went to work on Wall St. Basically, Wall St is a large club of Ivy League frat dudes. The culture is pretty much the same and if you have not had that experience you may find it hard to relate to many of your colleagues.
> 
> ...


1) Wall Street is maybe a hundred thousand employees all told. It is not the entire work environment. So even if I posit that what you say is true, women are wildly successful and have permeated pretty much every other aspect of employment thus far. There are also very few female NFL linebackers...but I don't think is it statistically significant workforce wise.

2) Is it they are SHUT out or that they prefer a job where they are not required to work 90-120 hours a week? Girls who dig it, stay. Those who don't leave.

3) Women have sororities and they can form their own investment groups. And frankly, I've seen old respected men on CNBC who 'earned their chops'...next to women who are younger than these guys granddaughters. Horny frat guys can be pretty easily manipulated. Now, UGLY girls would have a harder time penetrating the Frat...but look at Hetty Greer. One of the first big women in Wall Street...1834-1916. SHE made it despite a much worse environment and larger hurdles.

Girls need to deal with the frat. I need to compete with a pair of breasts and silky blond hair. It's a fair cop.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Male only environments that help to shape and foster positive growth on their roles at the exclusion of females, then sure it has its place. But, if it clubhouse of bellyaching and creating scapegoats with respect to the supposed victimization of males, no thank you. My gender nor my racial/ethnic background does not hinder me in any way in society. I'm not a victim (my personal attitude).

I'm not naive; as for instance the notion of feminism is probably more on a continuum scale than some binary notion of trying to tame the male in response to empowering a female only society. There are those at the extreme, but most of them are in the minority as even most Gaussian curves would suggest. So a clubhouse that is reactionary to the extreme of feminism is not my cup of tea. 

I can see even now as my sons are in their teens the need for their father (me). A responsibility I do not take lightly. It also means that I have even a greater responsibility for how they see the way I treat my wife. Hence forth even at home, there is a boys club with myself and my sons. However it is not designed on purpose to exclude my wife or to isolate her in any negative fashion. It is moment for me to relate to them and help them navigate their place in society in a positive and respectful manner. 

We are different, males and females, but it should not be viewed as much in competitive roles as in complimentary roles (hunters and gatherers initial role of cooperation to feed the tribe). So sure clubhouses and lounges can serve their purpose. And, while as a development biologist I can speak to the anatomy and physiology of events like peri menopause, I can't possibly speak to a woman on the personal details of her situation. The same can be said of those events particular to males.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Ikaika said:


> Male only environments that help to shape and foster positive growth on their roles at the exclusion of females, then sure it has its place. But, if it clubhouse of bellyaching and creating scapegoats with respect to the supposed victimization of males, no thank you. My gender nor my racial/ethnic background does not hinder me in any way in society. I'm not a victim (my personal attitude).
> 
> I'm not naive; as for instance the notion of feminism is probably more on a continuum scale than some binary notion of trying to tame the male in response to empowering a female only society. There are those at the extreme, but most of them are in the minority as even most Gaussian curves would suggest. So a clubhouse that is reactionary to the extreme of feminism is not my cup of tea.
> 
> ...



I understand your point, but your tone seems pretty overly dismissive of male criticisms of feminism. That it is singularly based on 'male bitterness at not being able to oppress women'.

Since the active consent law and divorce law has widely ben criticized by both MRA AND many others who are thoughtful and intelligent, this is clearly not the case.

Plus I think you are overly dismissive of 'venting'. A woman going on a rag about men, her job, the unfairness of being a woman etc. is considered healthy and emotionally releasing.

The fact that men might do it is what?

Now, I get that one can create an echo chamber of self reinforcing 'dogma'...but we don't LIVE in a tree house. We have to go outside and deal with other people (heck, one can posit that the internet is one big treehouse, where Jezebel, for example, is one huge echo chamber for feminists with some rather scary and idiotic results)

It's like anything else: overuse can be bad. But I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

JCD said:


> I understand your point, but your tone seems pretty overly dismissive of male criticisms of feminism. That it is singularly based on 'male bitterness at not being able to oppress women'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can't control the thoughts of what someone else male or female wants to foment. So, what you claim as my dismissive tone, i simply concede to only being able to deal with my own character issues. Thus, I prefer to deal with the issues I can control and with those of likemindedness rather than be dragged through the quagmire with those whose thoughts I have no possibility of budging. 

So a male clubhouse helping with internal growth is for me. It may not be for you. And that is fine. I called it bellyaching because it is not my cup of tea. You are free to rephrase it and be part of it and it may be to your benefit, just not for me. 

Simply sharing my thoughts not my judgements.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm all for men's only social clubs. I would like to see the Elks, Shriners and Moose turn it around and not allow women to be members anymore. I would like to see the Pythian Knights return. 


I was in the Lion Club for years and enjoyed the hell out of it.  Men need a place to be men.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> . . . .Many of the women who come into that environment try to adapt to that culture but it is not a natural fit. They drop out for a variety of reasons but I think there is a cultural boys club element.. . . .


Baaah, I’m in the legal part of the finance sector and I just don't see that anymore. IMHO it is more about educational pedigree and religious affiliation.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

chaos said:


> As far as forums like TAM goes, threads have been created where the title requested only replies from one gender. They are few in numbers though.


And the request is never respected. The offending parties even start their posts saying "I know this was directed at the men/women but....." I think there is a place for male and female forms. There are discussions that just tend to be more oriented toward one or the other. We are different and its wonderful that we are. We do have a general forum where the questions for the opposite sex work fine. My only issue has been when a thread is created that seems to have the intent of being flame bait. The "ladies, why do you all get raped so much" or "guys, why are you always raping us" type threads we've had come to mind.

Taking TAM forums and applying our behavior on them seems a stretch. I've heard many people argue that gender specific schooling is very valuable. There are women only colleges who's admin, students and alumni think provide and invaluable environment for learning. I'm sure the opposite is true as well. I like the idea of having a choice of association. Sometimes I like a "boy's night out" as I know many women look forward to a "girl's night out" or the all female book club gathering. The difficult questions come up at the private clubs (golf etc) where one side is excluded and some significant disadvantage comes from this. Does opening the doors level the field or just move the advantage to another place where the "exclusivity" continues?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I'll admit for awhile being a bit baffled as to what the point of this section is. I thought the original intent was to provide the men of TAM a virtual man cave to come and be ourselves; shoot the ****, speak from our collective perspective, a place to voice ourselves a bit more unencumbered than we do in more mixed company elsewhere on the board. In the ongoing battle between the sexes I think the Clubhouse and Lounge are inspired ideas.
> 
> The reality isn't really panning out that way from what I can see. Seems a good percentage of the threads around here are created by women, for varied reasons and agendas.
> 
> ...



I don't have or need a man cave.

Our place is decorated by Mrs.CuddleBug and I love her choices in decor and color.

I do the landscaping and she loves my choices and colors too.

Our main living room has a 55 inch LED TV. Some framed pictures of her and women things on the walls. We also have kitty and food calendars too.

Some rooms are painted light grey and others are a white light peachy color.

One of our rooms has my main computer system and her crafts table. Cats, lady bugs and Mrs.CuddleBug on the walls.

I don't see our place as too manly or too womanly. It's whatever we like goes on the walls, decor and stuff.

If we sold and bought a bigger place, I don't need a man cave and she doesn't need a woman cave.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> If we sold and bought a bigger place, I don't need a man cave and she doesn't need a woman cave.


But _everyone_ needs a pouting room.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

One of the golf clubs(private), that I belong to has no female members, and according to the charter, will never have any.

Also, the only time a woman can play the course is on Sunday afternoon.

I can attest that many deals are cut on the course, and in the bar/lounge.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Yes, this is the really big problem. Business and socializing mix. 




BradWesley said:


> One of the golf clubs(private), that I belong to has no female members, and according to the charter, will never have any.
> 
> Also, the only time a woman can play the course is on Sunday afternoon.
> 
> I can attest that many deals are cut on the course, and in the bar/lounge.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Shoto1984 said:


> And the request is never respected. The offending parties even start their posts saying "I know this was directed at the men/women but....." I think there is a place for male and female forms. There are discussions that just tend to be more oriented toward one or the other. We are different and its wonderful that we are. We do have a general forum where the questions for the opposite sex work fine. My only issue has been when a thread is created that seems to have the intent of being flame bait. The "ladies, why do you all get raped so much" or "guys, why are you always raping us" type threads we've had come to mind.



Any small amount of research will illustrate that (in an educational sense) males and females are more likely to be open and honest among their peers. This is very basic. Why is it ignored on TAM? Seems to be "progressive" thinking. It boils down to apologetic sucking up mostly.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Cletus said:


> But _everyone_ needs a pouting room.



Oh yah, I hear you.

One of our upstairs rooms is a computer room, crafts room. I bought a corner table and have a 5.1 speaker system on it.:smthumbup:

Mrs.CuddleBug has her crafts table on the other side of room and our cat has a bed on it, so he naps and watches me game.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Cletus said:


> But _everyone_ needs a pouting room.


I have a in-home music/recording studio. Playing music cures all for me.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> One of the golf clubs(private), that I belong to has no female members, and according to the charter, will never have any.
> 
> Also, the only time a woman can play the course is on Sunday afternoon.
> 
> I can attest that many deals are cut on the course, and in the bar/lounge.


Do these men ever make deals OUTSIDE the club?

Do these men never make deals with women?

Do these men ever make deals on Sunday?

I happen to make a lot of business decisions in my house. Does that mean I am excluding all non family members from my deal making?

While this cut ice a long time ago, just the fact that are so many fewer such clubs means it's several quantum less of a problem.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Shoto1984 said:


> And the request is never respected. The offending parties even start their posts saying "I know this was directed at the men/women but....."


Reminds me of a thread awhile ago here in the MC where a male poster started a thread explicitly asking for male only replies. A female poster jumped in to offer insight in record time, with the usual "I know this was addressed to men but..." preface. The OP thanked her for responding but, politely IMO, reminded her that he was looking for male only replies. 

Well you can imagine how well that went over. :rofl:


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Reminds me of a thread awhile ago here in the MC where a male poster started a thread explicitly asking for male only replies. A female poster jumped in to offer insight in record time, with the usual "I know this was addressed to men but..." preface. The OP thanked her for responding but, politely IMO, reminded her that he was looking for male only replies.
> 
> Well you can imagine how well that went over. :rofl:


:redcard::banned2::2gunsfiring_v1::FIREdevil:


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

So Jaquen, have you made any decisions yet on the "Are Male Only Environments Still Important", or did you conclude its a moot point?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Forest said:


> So Jaquen, have you made any decisions yet on the "Are Male Only Environments Still Important", or did you conclude its a moot point?


The point is moot because women don't allow them anymore.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

JCD said:


> The point is moot because women don't allow them anymore.



This may just be a cultural thing, because where I live they exist and women typically respect and don't try to crash the party.


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## BrutalHonesty (Apr 5, 2015)

The only male only time i enjoy (other than being all alone at times which i also consider fundamental for my mental stability) is when i cycle. At that one moment, when i'm bombing up or down a mountain i don't want to deal with women. I've ridden with women and i can't stand their constant complaining and whining about everything. Where it hurts and how tired they are. 

I also exclude some men for the same reason. Riding a bike over a distance means pain. I'm focused on dealing with mine. I can't be worrying about yours. And if you are a male and whine i don't give a crap, you deal and suck it up. But with women? I don't feel good about ignoring it. 

I need that moment of hardcore male physical give it all. 

Other than that i live surrounded by women all the time.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> One of the golf clubs(private), that I belong to has no female members, and according to the charter, will never have any.


Never say never... As soon as the charter is challenged it will change, as it should.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Forest said:


> So Jaquen, have you made any decisions yet on the "Are Male Only Environments Still Important", or did you conclude its a moot point?


I didn't post the thread to make a decision; I already find they have merit, under the right circumstances. I posted the thread for discussion, which has been enjoyable and enlightening for the most part.


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## Jeffyboy (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm sure there will be nothing left soon. They have to be everywhere watching, listening, checking everything.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I didn't post the thread to make a decision; I already find they have merit, under the right circumstances. I posted the thread for discussion, which has been enjoyable and enlightening for the most part.


Going back to your OP and the point about women coming in here to ask questions ..... I have done this in the distant past and for good reason, I was going from one extreme end of the relationship spectrum to the other, bad to good. I celebrate the differences between men and women, love that we are different, love good men. I wanted to learn about a few male traits from those that could best advise, that being men. No malice, no battle of the sexes involved, simply wanted to head into my new relationship a better woman, better partner and with more understanding. The good men of TAM have helped immensely.

As for male only or female only environments, all for it IRL, online it is too hard to do unless it is a private group. My partner is not my girlfriend, when I need my female friends I seek them out IRL or in the private online groups.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I think 'male only' clubs are very important. Please don't get me wrong....I do not mean ones where sex goes on etc.

Just a place where men can be men....talk about football, sex, fart etc just be 'men'.

A Masonic Lodge for example....yes they have secrets and rituals and yes they raise alot of money but basically its a mans dinner club.

So yes, I think 'men only' clubs, bars etc are very important as are 'women only' spa's etc.


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