# Housework



## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

Reading MEM's new thermostat thread got me thinking. I am a sloppy house keeper but I now do about 80% of the cleaning and cooking because (well I stopped most of it last week) I'm a Nice Guy. I really don't want to do more than my fair share. When I first go married, my wife did most of the work since I was still not a Nice Guy yet, but as time went on and the complaining about how dirty things were got worse I picked up more and more of the work to the point I do most of the heavy lifting. I bet in her mind she does most of the work, but I cook, do the dishes, vacuum, some laundry (but not her's god forbid I touch her clothes!), picking up after the kids. 

What is an appropriate response? Stop doing it? Talk it about it with her? I'm going into serious detachment mode right now and I just considering blowing everything off except the bare minimum...


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Talking is the most direct thing you can do. Don't make it about her, make it about you. "Honey, I am really tired today. Can you do_____?"

kids can pick up after themselves (assuming they are old enough).

You can ask her to help when you are cleaning. "Honey, I'm going to wash the bathroom floor. Can you vacuum while I'm doing that?"

You can stop doing whatever will inconvenience her the most. Don't cook. If you don't cook, don't clean up after. Leave the dishes until they start overflowing. Leave your clothes on the floor in her way. make her step over them.


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## coops (Jan 24, 2011)

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Talk it about it with her?


*slap on the back of the head* (in a friendly way)

STOP TALKING haha we've covered this. 

You need to get something here. You somehow have it in your mind that this is your partner, your lover, a trusted friend or someone who somehow gives a crap about your best interest. You are wrong here. Just cause she has the title of wife, doesn't mean anything at this point in your relationship. 

She is NOT going to do what is best for the relationship. Anything she says is NOT based on what is best for the relationship. She will only do what she feels is best for HER at this point. So talking to her is like giving your enemy exact information on your troop placements, supply lines and battle plans. It is only going to get you killed. 

Only in this case, it'll be half your assets, probably a loss of your business, your kids raised by another man and payments every month to her account. You are not in a partnership, you are in a power struggle with someone that can royally screw you. This needs to hit home for you somehow. I really hope it doesn't take losing it all before you get it. 

When she starts respecting you, showing you affection and love and sexing you up multiple times a week, then you can start treating her like a partner. Until then you are playing a game that you are losing horribly and don't even know you're playing yet. Stop treating her like she deserves your love/respect/loyalty cause she doesn't and before you know it, that knife is going to be in your back. 

The real key for you is, gaining that respect/love/admiration back without causing additional resentment. You have to take the power back, not ask for it. 

If you're doing 80% of the work, you already know its wrong. Stop doing it all. Do your share. If there is more left over that isn't getting done let her do it. If she instead decides to talk to you about it because she notices it not getting done, then you lay down your boundaries (not discuss) on this issue.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Having not read your other posts, I'm not sure of what your situation is like regarding career and workload... If you're a SAHD, sorry but you should be doing 80% or more of the housework. If, on the other hand, you work full time, then you shouldn't be doing more than 50% (50/50 if your wife also works full time; less for you if she stays at home or works part time).

I don't see anything too wrong with talking, provided that it's clear, direct, and constructive. Problems arise when you ask permission to change the setup, or compromise when the 
compromise doesn't benefit you in any way. 

I DO, however, see a huge problem with just stopping some chores and not saying anything about it. As a female, I would interpret that behavior as incredibly passive aggressive and just downright childish--like you're not man enough to address the issue.

I think the general consensus here is to stay strong and true to your own boundaries, but we're all suggesting slightly different ways of achieving that goal. I would suggest stopping the extra work along with a brief explanation of why... Stay friendly, don't sound bitter or act as if you're some kind of saint for doing extra work, and be sure to keep doing a good job on the chores that you choose to keep as your responsibility. The goal is to be upfront and clear; this shows that you're strong and capable. I generally caution men against playing too many mind games, simply because women are better at them (years of practice), and because too many mind games can cause a person to become catty and manipulative--not masculine traits!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Are there some obvious chores that you can cut back on? Are you doing anything based on "Her" standards (possibly higher standards?) instead of your own?


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## coops (Jan 24, 2011)

This is situational advice I'm giving directly to him based on what he has described in other posts. What you say is right in a healthy functioning relationship. I would communicate about the chores given where my personal relationship dynamic is at. 

However, when you are sick, do you do what is normal for you? Do you go to work and hit the gym? go play some football with the boys? Of course not, that will only make things worse. You change your behavior, you rest, you recover and when you're strong again things return to normal. 

Right now, his relationship is "sick". He can't do things that are "normal" to recover it. He needs to change and get things to a healthier mental level before he can start introducing normal again or it'll just make things worse. 

All talking does right now is drag things through the mud again. Remind her that there are problems and reaffirm the feelings she has. Right now, every time he talks, he takes an epic dive bomb off the nearest cliff and his wife runs emotional circles around his head.

He needs to change his behavior, not talk to his wife about why and get her reinvested in the relationship. If she wants to know why, she should initiate. If she wants to discuss it, let her. If she doesn't want to fight or discuss it, she'll just start doing the extra housework.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sit down with her and the full list of what needs to be done. Ask her to pick out her "half" the work. 

If she lists a bs short list for her - tell her that if she thinks "her" list represents half you will be glad to do "her" list and let her do what the remaining stuff (what she is suggesting as your list). 

Growing up - when there was one piece of cake - my dad always insisted that one of us "cut" the cake in half and the other got to "pick" which of the "halves" they wanted. The cutting was so fair you could have weighed the pieces of cake on a "gram" scale. 





MisterNiceGuy said:


> Reading MEM's new thermostat thread got me thinking. I am a sloppy house keeper but I now do about 80% of the cleaning and cooking because (well I stopped most of it last week) I'm a Nice Guy. I really don't want to do more than my fair share. When I first go married, my wife did most of the work since I was still not a Nice Guy yet, but as time went on and the complaining about how dirty things were got worse I picked up more and more of the work to the point I do most of the heavy lifting. I bet in her mind she does most of the work, but I cook, do the dishes, vacuum, some laundry (but not her's god forbid I touch her clothes!), picking up after the kids.
> 
> What is an appropriate response? Stop doing it? Talk it about it with her? I'm going into serious detachment mode right now and I just considering blowing everything off except the bare minimum...


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## TrueGentleman (Apr 29, 2009)

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Reading MEM's new thermostat thread got me thinking. I am a sloppy house keeper but I now do about 80% of the cleaning and cooking because (well I stopped most of it last week) I'm a Nice Guy. I really don't want to do more than my fair share. When I first go married, my wife did most of the work since I was still not a Nice Guy yet, but as time went on and the complaining about how dirty things were got worse I picked up more and more of the work to the point I do most of the heavy lifting. I bet in her mind she does most of the work, but I cook, do the dishes, vacuum, some laundry (but not her's god forbid I touch her clothes!), picking up after the kids.
> 
> What is an appropriate response? Stop doing it? Talk it about it with her? I'm going into serious detachment mode right now and I just considering blowing everything off except the bare minimum...


Assuming that you both work full-time, then the domestic chores should be split about 50-50. 

You know your wife better than I do, but I have found that initiating a conversation that more or less starts with "I'm doing all of the work around here" rarely gets what you want and can easily be diverted off-course. It can be a lot to dump on a person all at one time, so defensiveness is predictable.

I would suggest to start out by asking her to do specific tasks. If she's heading off to watch TV or play on the computer after dinner, ask her to take care of the dishes. Especially if you made dinner. We hate it when women expect us to read their minds, so be direct and to the point about what you want her to do. If the kids leave a mess (are they too little to pick up after themselves?), ask her to help them clean up. It might work better at first if you ask her to take care of one chore while you do another.

If she thinks that the arrangement is fair and that she's doing most of the work, then make up a chart of all of the household tasks, including how frequently they must be done and how long they take. Rate them on a scale of importance, from essential (cooking) to "if we have time" (dusting). This can help resolve any arguments as to what chore is the equivalent of another. Personally, I consider cooking meals every day as the equivalent of everything else put together, at least in a household with no children. Shopping for food plus the preparation and clean-up can easily take 10 hours or more per week, and doing the laundry, vacuuming, dusting, and cleaning the bathrooms does not balance it out.

Depending on how she reacts to what you're doing, ask her to do each of the non-essential chores individually, and then stop doing them no matter what she does. Let her deal with the natural consequences. I've been in your situation, and I can tell you that with the current arrangement, the only consequences of her not doing the chores is that you do them for her. She'll likely get pissed off, but just keep asking her to do them and don't do them yourself. Try to come across as calm but assertive rather than petty and frustrated, as she'll perceive your actions entirely differently.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

coops said:


> All talking does right now is drag things through the mud again. Remind her that there are problems and reaffirm the feelings she has. Right now, every time he talks, he takes an epic dive bomb off the nearest cliff and his wife runs emotional circles around his head.
> 
> He needs to change his behavior, not talk to his wife about why and get her reinvested in the relationship. If she wants to know why, she should initiate. If she wants to discuss it, let her. If she doesn't want to fight or discuss it, she'll just start doing the extra housework.


I think some communication is going to be necessary here. I agree with Lime that if he just changes and stops doing certain things it will seem very passive aggressive.

But the conversation needs to be short and to the point. Not about emotions and how things make him feel - but about responsibilities and duties and how to get things done.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I agree with NG. 




nice777guy said:


> I think some communication is going to be necessary here. I agree with Lime that if he just changes and stops doing certain things it will seem very passive aggressive.
> 
> But the conversation needs to be short and to the point. Not about emotions and how things make him feel - but about responsibilities and duties and how to get things done.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

coops said:


> *slap on the back of the head* (in a friendly way)
> 
> STOP TALKING haha we've covered this.
> 
> ...



I’m right with you here Coops. What a lot of people don’t know and seriously don’t “get” is that their marriage partner plays the game with a totally different set of rules and some of those rules are way beyond comprehension and sometimes they are evil.

But it is far far worse than that. In that their “life’s partner” has totally different and in many ways opposing fundamental motivations for “being in and staying in the marriage”. Sometimes these motivations are so “bad”, ghastly, shocking that they will never declare what their true motivations for being married are. So some people are married and will never know the true reasons why their partner is with them.

Bob


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## bluesky (Jan 29, 2011)

I am a man and do most of the home maintenance and housework.

She is fine with the home being sloppier, dirtier, and backed up on everything.

I want it more orderly and clean......so I end up doing it.

In 20 years I have been unable to get her to be the initiator of cleaning things and keeping on top of things.

She will JUMP if I ask her to do something, but she rarely initiates it.

I have made my feelings on this matter, through varies methods of communicating. 

Generally, she will change for a few days to shut me up. Then she goes right back to the way she is naturally.

No method of discussion, manipulation, begging, demanding, or passive aggressiveness is effective in the long term.

This applies to just about EVERYTHING.


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## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

Just as follow up to this post since I was the OP.

If you read my other forum post on Fitness Testing, you'll see that my wife had a breakthrough and doesn't want leave and is willing to work things out for real. 

I talked to her briefly last night about the housework thing and she said she was so pissed off at me she just let the housework go and I playing Mr. Nice Guy just picked up the slack. So, some time in the next week, we are going to have a talk and discuss what our needs around the house and the housework are. It's such a breath of fresh air to have your wife actually talk to me like this!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I think marriage is quite an enterprise in and of itself. And in that enterprise the two people kind of “default” to what they do in it. In long term marriages sometimes things get way out of balance and one ends up doing more than the other.

At times like these I think it good to list everything that needs doing in the marriage and then for the couple to share the tasks out in a fair and equitable way.


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## mrnice (Aug 11, 2009)

Just halve the duties it's that simple, my girlfriend and I basically share everything, we don't say things like "I did more than you did" 
or "It's your turn"

I think you both need to work together consciously. It's really not that hard.

My ex always winged and whined that she did EVERYTHING, well I didn't know everything was me vacuuming once a week and mopping floors, dusting, load of two of washing, cooking etc. 

BTW i worked full time, she didn't and she still complained that I did nothing, probably just another reason we split.


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## AMA Nation (Feb 3, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> I agree with NG.




yeah, me too.....:smthumbup: Everything clears up through conversation.


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