# I know she is cheating, now what?



## confusedhusband1

Hi my wife and I have been married for 8 yrs now. I am 35 and she is 32. I have a feeling our marriage is falling apart. I feel that it started with an ex bf of hers from high school thru facebook about 2 months ago. She forgot to close out her account and I logged on to our computer and there was a lot of inappropriate talk on there for a married woman.

I confronted her about it and she told me it was no big deal, it was just silly flirting and that she loved me. I know that she has been out with him for coffee and at least one dinner, but again she said it was just catching up on some old times.

So I decide to look thru her purse just out of curiousity and she has a thong panty in a ziplock bag hidden in one of the zipper areas. Is it normal for women to keep an extra pair of panties in her purse? Plus she doesn't normally wear thongs.

I think once you live with someone and are in love with them you pick up their habits and rituals. She always showers first thing in the morning, but got a shower earlier this week when she was out with her "friends" when she got home.


I also know that she has his number programmed under some other name that she works with. We don't have sex very often lately and she is texting a lot more than she normally does.

I'm not sure what the hell to do? We have 2 incredible kids together. Counseling, divorce? Thanks for the advice.


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## Machiavelli

Do you want to get her back or do you want to move on? Advice will be contingent on your desired outcome.


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## somethingelse

Sounds to me just from that bit of information that she is cheating. 

Keeping an extra pair of panties in my purse? Never done it.
More texting than normal? red flag
Hiding his number under another name? red flag
Dinner with a man she's been texting/flirting with? big red flag
Shower ritual changed? hmmm (I've seen this one before)

Have you spoken to her about this yet? If you haven't...wait until more people chime in here. You will get some sound advice.


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## confusedhusband1

I would like to keep her, but she had a one night stand early on in our marriage when she was on vacation with her friends. I read it in a jounal of hers that she used to keep and just don't know if I can handle another one.


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## somethingelse

confusedhusband1 said:


> I would like to keep her, but she had a one night stand early on in our marriage when she was on vacation with her friends. I read it in a jounal of hers that she used to keep and just don't know if I can handle another one.


Did you confront her about that?


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## OldWolf57

cheating, your move.


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## confusedhusband1

Thank you. I have spoken to her about it and she denies anything is going on. She throws it back at me saying don't I trust her.

I thought those were red flags to me also. Also that she feels like she needs some space. I told her we should try to spend more time together rather than less.


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## somethingelse

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thank you. I have spoken to her about it and she denies anything is going on. She throws it back at me saying don't I trust her.
> 
> I thought those were red flags to me also. Also that she feels like she needs some space. I told her we should try to spend more time together rather than less.



You said she cheated on you once during vacation...did you confront her about that? If so, what did you do/say to her...what happened after that?


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## Entropy3000

Hindsight : 

1) You should have insisted she go NC with her EX BF.

2) What happened with the ONS? Meaning how was that affair dealt with?

3) Could she have been having other affairs?

4) So whats up with her other late night activities? She has had a ONS and then possibly used a GNO as cover for cheating. What is the nature of her GNOs? How often? Does she go on trips?

Foresight :

Don't be so quick to forgive her. At least find out what you are forgiving her for? 

What are you boundaries? Your deal breakers? Know these before you go looking further here.


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## confusedhusband1

Somethingelse, I did confront her on it. She said she was really drunk and it was a mistake. She apologized and I did forgive her. It took a little while. The thing with that is it was a one time thing with no feelings as far as I know.

This seems like it has feelings.


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## Malaise

Read the threads about investigating. Keep quiet while doing this .
Find out for sure with hard evidence.

If you do get concrete proof that is undenial: before confronting determine if what you find is a deal breaker.

That should determine how you proceedd


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## confusedhusband1

I'm sorry, but I don't know what a gno is? I have been reading some of the posts on here and they have been really helpfull so I joined


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## Entropy3000

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thank you. I have spoken to her about it and she denies anything is going on. She throws it back at me saying don't I trust her.
> 
> I thought those were red flags to me also. Also that she feels like she needs some space. I told her we should try to spend more time together rather than less.


Marriage is about love and respect. Trust is a by product.

That said, this is cheater speak. She wants space. Then the "don't you trust me speech". So this is all just blowing you off. A smoke screen. Chaff. 
Next s that you are being jealous, insecure and controlling.

So here is what you do. You tell her that these relationships and activities of hers that you are concerend about are unacceptable to you and either she decides to make the marriage her #1 priority are you are done. You have to be willing to her her to keep lose her.

You need to find out about her affair(s).

Space is a code word for I need isolation from you to have my fun with other men.

Instigation, Isolation and Escalation.

Our assumption now is that you rug swept the ONS. She then was entitled and realized that you were under her control. She lost respect for you.

I believe in shutting down affairs quickly. However you confronted too soon. You needed more evidence. Now truth ne known what you already knee was enough for me. But obviously not enough for you. 

And the answer is that you trust her not to be inappropriate and unfaithful but her actions are unfaithful so no you do not trust her.


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## OldWolf57

You don't know if you can handle another. Well you will have to NOW !!! 
And, this is not a ONS, this is an affair. Thats why you are not getting as much.
Is the affair a deal breaker ??
Just from you post, you sound needy, that will not keep her. In fact, it will push her away.
What you need now is more proof. Keylogger, VAR and GPS dude.
If I was you, I would sit her down and say these words, "Your A** is Grass, and I am the Lawnmower". "You get one chance to convince me you are worth keeping, by coming clean."
Or, you could just put a Pi on her.


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## Entropy3000

confusedhusband1 said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't know what a gno is? I have been reading some of the posts on here and they have been really helpfull so I joined


Girls Night Out.

A lot of possible gray area here but essentially there are marriage friendly GNOs and then there are the shades of gray where the a GNO is Girls Nights Out with Other Men. Married women being single.


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## confusedhusband1

Thanks entropy. She asked why I was snooping thru her purse and got really pissed. I felt like she was just trying to divert the attention off of her.


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## somethingelse

confusedhusband1 said:


> Somethingelse, I did confront her on it. She said she was really drunk and it was a mistake. She apologized and I did forgive her. It took a little while. The thing with that is it was a one time thing with no feelings as far as I know.
> 
> This seems like it has feelings.


Rug sweeping (ignoring) her first mistake...is a huge mistake. There is no excusing a fling or affair. She was drunk (unless she was passed out and someone raped her, there's no excuse for that kind of behaviour no matter who she may be. Feelings or not, she willingly got into bed with someone else while married to you. Also, being that you rugsweep...she does not feel as much remorse for her wrong doings, and here comes this "old friend" from back in the day....what's the harm...she didn't have too much work to do her last fallout. 

Know this and accept it. It will help you to make a decision about what's happening now.

You have to step up now, and decide if you want to be with a serial cheater. It's not fun, and very draining. If you investigate more on this (do not confront her yet), and find that she is in fact having an A (affair) you need to know whether you are willing to stay or go in order to make a strong headed decision.


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## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thank you. I have spoken to her about it and she denies anything is going on. She throws it back at me saying don't I trust her.
> 
> I thought those were red flags to me also. Also that she feels like she needs some space. I told her we should try to spend more time together rather than less.


You spoke to her about the present sitch or the old ONS?

I guarantee she banged the guy when she showered after being out. You know this already or you wouldn't have considered it significant.

Your wife is at least a 2X loser in the adultery category. My advice is to tell her you know she had sex with her BF on such and such a day (shower day) and you're divorcing her. See an attorney, first though. You might even want to confront her with the papers in hand. This will blow her out of the affair fog if anything can. Very manly, very decisive, very Alpha. Then let her fall apart and try to win you back.

Women lose sexual attraction for the husbands over the years and this is well known. Most see it as the woman losing interest in sex, but that's not it. Your wife doesn't see you as attractive and, no joke, doesn't think you can attract another woman. Before you even confront, you need to change your look (clothes and hair), start bodybuilding, start disappearing in the evening (I'm going out for a while to take care of some business. Don't wait up.). Basically, you need to completely unbalance your relationship with your wife with absolutely no explanation. No sex with her either. Be friendly, but distant. Like she's a female coworker with a history of filing sexual harassment complaints.

By the time you confront and you tell her you're divorcing, she'll have already become seriously troubled by your actions above. You will control the battlespace. If she caves,bows and scrapes sufficiently, you may decide to take her back. If not, you're already well on your way to a new life.

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy.


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## Shaggy

So you confront her with your worries that she's cheating and her response is to tell you not to worry and ask for more alone time.

Seriously, she'd have to give you a signed confession to make it any more obvious that she is feeling the feeling with the Ex.

There is no way she should be texting, FB or going on dates with any ex.


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## Shaggy

Find out if the EX has a wife or GF - let her know what is going on.

And btw - nope none carries a thong as backup in their purse in a ziplock.


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## Entropy3000

confusedhusband1 said:


> I would like to keep her, but she had a one night stand early on in our marriage when she was on vacation with her friends. I read it in a jounal of hers that she used to keep and just don't know if I can handle another one.


Realize that this just happenes to be the ONS she journaled about and you discovered. 

Has she gone on other vacations without you like this one again? If so why would you be ok with that?


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## OldWolf57

The next time she mention space, tell her you will see a lawyer the next day to start a D, and she can move out NOW.
You do not leave your house for any reason.
the next time she mention trust, Tell her she showed trust is something she can't handle.


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## Entropy3000

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thanks entropy. She asked why I was snooping thru her purse and got really pissed. I felt like she was just trying to divert the attention off of her.


And hence why they call that ... diversion.

Do not let her turn the conversation around. Ignore her comments and stay on message. Do not be distracted.

But before you do this do some more homework. Gather more information.

The evidence will speak for itself.


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## confusedhusband1

Thnks for the advice. It's a lot to process. I just doesn't seem appropriate for a married woman to have any contact with an ex and I told her that.

I don't talk to ex gf's. This guy is not married and I'm not sure he has a gf or not to answer your question.


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## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thnks for the advice. It's a lot to process. I just doesn't seem appropriate for a married woman to have any contact with an ex and I told her that.
> 
> I don't talk to ex gf's. This guy is not married and I'm not sure he has a gf or not to answer your question.


It's not just contact, it's copulation. It has to be dealt with decisively and harshly for you to have any hope of reconciliation. 

As the young captain once said, " you have to burn the village to save it."


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## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> It's not just contact, it's copulation. It has to be dealt with decisively and harshly for you to have any hope of reconciliation.
> 
> As the young captain once said, " you have to burn the village to save it."


very insightful


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## Malaise

Machiavelli said:


> You spoke to her about the present sitch or the old ONS?
> 
> *I guarantee she banged the guy when she showered after being out. You know this already or you wouldn't have considered it significant.*
> Your wife is at least a 2X loser in the adultery category. My advice is to tell her you know she had sex with her BF on such and such a day (shower day) and you're divorcing her. See an attorney, first though. You might even want to confront her with the papers in hand. This will blow her out of the affair fog if anything can. Very manly, very decisive, very Alpha. Then let her fall apart and try to win you back.
> 
> Women lose sexual attraction for the husbands over the years and this is well known. Most see it as the woman losing interest in sex, but that's not it. Your wife doesn't see you as attractive and, no joke, doesn't think you can attract another woman. Before you even confront, you need to change your look (clothes and hair), start bodybuilding, start disappearing in the evening (I'm going out for a while to take care of some business. Don't wait up.). Basically, you need to completely unbalance your relationship with your wife with absolutely no explanation. No sex with her either. Be friendly, but distant. Like she's a female coworker with a history of filing sexual harassment complaints.
> 
> By the time you confront and you tell her you're divorcing, she'll have already become seriously troubled by your actions above. You will control the battlespace. If she caves,bows and scrapes sufficiently, you may decide to take her back. If not, you're already well on your way to a new life.
> 
> Read No More Mr. Nice Guy.


 for what its worth, I believe this also


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## Entropy3000

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thnks for the advice. It's a lot to process. I just doesn't seem appropriate for a married woman to have any contact with an ex and I told her that.
> 
> I don't talk to ex gf's. This guy is not married and I'm not sure he has a gf or not to answer your question.


In my view we have :

Inappropriate Behavior -- Being in contact with an EX at all. Risky behavior.

Unfaithfullness -- Lying. Having secrets. Doing anything that is not faithful to the other spouse. This includes relationships like he has with the OM.

Cheating -- Sexual relationship of any kind.


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## Complexity

I don't understand why you were so accepting of her excuse. Who lets their wife "catch up" with an old flame?

Regarding the underwear, you can't be this naive..... It's evident the affair has gone physical and I wouldn't be surprised if she slept around during her girl's night out.


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## moxy

Definitely sounds like cheating. Too many lies subtly mixed in there. The spare panties isn't weird, as long as she carries other toiletries (I carry a thong, toothbrush and all the usual travel sized make-up and toiletries in my bag; but then, my life is all nomadic at the moment and I don't always get back to home base every day, so it makes sense for me; if she's not that kind of gal that carries all kinds of stuff in her handbag, then it's shady) regularly, but in combo with the rest of your list, it's a red flag.

Gather some intel with a key logger, VAR, and a copy if the cell phone bill. Once you know what's really happening, confront her in private. If she doesn't show remorse, expose the affair and file for divorce. If she wants to fix it (and assuming you still want to after seeing the gory proof), then expose, No contact between her and OM, and marriage counseling right away!


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## lordmayhem

Complexity said:


> I don't understand why you were so accepting of her excuse. Who lets their wife "catch up" with an old flame?


IKR?

Who let's their wife go on a date with another man, especially and old lover? Might as well pay for their hotel room.



Complexity said:


> Regarding the underwear, you can't be this naive..... It's evident the affair has gone physical and I wouldn't be surprised if she slept around during her girl's night out.


I'd immediately use the checkmate semen detection kit, especially if she hasn't worn them for me. That thong is for their sex encounter, nothing more. This would be an immediate deal breaker.


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## giashasa2012

From what you describe she is cheating, investigate to confirm it and then divorce , only if you have children should you attempt to decide if you want this marriage ,if not don't think about it , don't reconcile , it will be the second time that she cheated . 
I read an article of an a MC , his personal experience was that a marriage could be saved if one affair happens but with a second affair not , it doesn't work in the long run.

And being drunk does not make it something les or different , it is cheating plain and simple .

I remember one time i was drunk (no recollection drunk, total black out,what i wright now was told to me be my friends ), a cute girl was interested in me , and my reply was sorry your are beautiful but i love my wife.

Alcohol lowers the inhibition makes us reckless but i creates nothing new , everything that we do was in us from the beginning , it was repressed or suppressed but it was there . 

If you divorce don't tell her anything until the time that you are prepared , lawyer ,divorce paper, finances.... 

And something else I LOVE YOU DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING that you may expect , it means only that she does have some filings for you . She may feel love for you , but she does not love you , if she is cheating she is hurting you ,she disrespects you and she potential risk your health , your life ( cheating sex is mostly unprotected sex) .

And when she says i love you what kind of love ....??????? .... examples of what a cheater means with the phrase i love you , you can find on the cheaters forum Affair Discussion Forum • View topic - Do people who are having an affair still love their spouse? or Affair Discussion Forum • View topic - Do you think your spouse deserves the betrayal from the A? and a link about unprotected sex Affair Discussion Forum • View topic - For those of us who bareback...


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## Baffled01

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thank you. I have spoken to her about it and she denies anything is going on. She throws it back at me saying don't I trust her.
> 
> I thought those were red flags to me also. Also that she feels like she needs some space. I told her we should try to spend more time together rather than less.


Firstly, you've allowed her way too much latitude with Facebook, chatting with ex bf's. This is a BIG problem, and this forum is rife with marriages that have almost ended (or have ended) because of Facebook-induced infidelity.

Also 'Ladies Nights Out' always lead to trouble. Combine the two and you've got a recipe for disaster for a marriage. Sounds like it has already gone physical you will have to move quick here, but you may have waited too long.


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## lovelygirl

confusedhusband1 said:


> She forgot to close out her account and I logged on to our computer and *there was a lot of inappropriate talk on there for a married woman.
> *
> I confronted her about it and *she told me it was no big deal,* it was just silly flirting and that she loved me. I know that *she has been out with him for coffee and at least one dinner, but again she said it was just catching up on some old times.*
> 
> *So I decide to look thru her purse just out of curiousity and she has a thong panty in a ziplock bag hidden in one of the zipper areas*. Is it normal for women to keep an extra pair of panties in her purse? Plus she doesn't normally wear thongs.
> 
> I think once you live with someone and are in love with them you pick up their habits and rituals. She always showers first thing in the morning, *but got a shower earlier this week when she was out with her "friends" when she got home.*
> 
> 
> *We don't have sex very often lately and she is texting a lot more than she normally does.*
> .





confusedhusband1 said:


> She asked why I was snooping thru her purse and got really pissed.





confusedhusband1 said:


> I would like to keep her, but she had a one night stand early on in our marriage when she was on vacation with her friends.


Typical cheater behavior!

She does it so openly, so indiscreetly, so carelessly that she insults your intelligence because even when you find something out, she knows you'll let her walk away with little to no effort.

Go figure, she cheated so early in the marriage and you let it slide without consequences on her, that she thinks she can do it over and over again at any given chance. 

-She dates her ex.
-She has inappropriate chats with other men.
-She banged him and/or other guys while keeping thongs in the purse and she yells at you for ruining her plans to have affairs.
-She has showers when coming home while blatantly lying to you.
Yet, she tells you it's no biggie and she's not doing anything wrong.

Seriously, what does she take you for? 

At this point, I wouldn't question her affair.
I would question the level of your self-respect.


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## Ansley

The title of your thread says "i know she is cheating" 

Dont sit around and wait for her to end the affair, tell you about it, and then become the perfect wife in recovery. Wont happen. You need to find out what is going on. She wont tell you. If she knows you are on to her she will warn the boyfriend and they will become more secretive. 

Find out who he is. Get his contact information. Put a VAR in her car. When you have seen/heard enough be tough with her. Personally Ive seen/heard enough from your post but you may want more evidence. Tell her you are going to expose the affair. Be firm about this. Its not a threat-YOU WILL EXPOSE THE AFFAIR AND THE OneNightStand THAT WAS RUG SWEPT. Talk to the other man without warning. If he is married or has a girlfriend make sure she knows. 

Once your wife sees you mean business and you are not to be taken for granted, she will respect you more. 

Sending you good wishes and Im sorry she is treating you so horribly. Remember-she is treating you horribly-


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## WorkingOnMe

If my wife wants to go to dinner to catch up with an old friend, I'm going with. No question. How you let your wife go on a date with another man, I just can't wrap my head around.


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## confusedhusband1

I didn't knowingly let her go on a date with him. She told me afterward after I called her out on it. I think I may have been too trusting. I thought that was what marriage was built on, love, trust, and respect.


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## confusedhusband1

As far as exposing the affair? What tell her friends?


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## WorkingOnMe

Do you know the guy? Can you expose to his wife?

You can also expose to her parents. Try to enlist them in saving your marriage.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

confusedhusband1 said:


> As far as exposing the affair? What tell her friends?


Once you gather the proper evidence you should expose it to everyone. Her friends and her family. If the OM has a wife of GF you expose to them as well.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

confusedhusband1 said:


> I didn't knowingly let her go on a date with him. She told me afterward after I called her out on it. I think I may have been too trusting. I thought that was what marriage was built on, love, trust, and respect.


The fact that she went ahead and did that should tell you most of what you need to know. It doesn't take a talk to no it's not acceptable.


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## confusedhusband1

As far as I know he doesn't have a gf.
I almost feel sick to my stomach. I know the last time we had sex about 2 weeks ago she was out that night. It was about 11:00 that night after she went and had drinks with some "friends" from work.


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## Shaggy

You might try using a semen detection kit on her underwear when you suspect she may have met up with him.


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## Acabado

Start snooping like a pro. VARs, keylogger, spyware on phone, GPS. Even professional PI. Go low key. Don't confront her with out clear, irrefutable evidence before a final, well planned confrontation.


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## Entropy3000

confusedhusband1 said:


> Somethingelse, I did confront her on it. She said she was really drunk and it was a mistake. She apologized and I did forgive her. It took a little while. The thing with that is it was a one time thing with no feelings as far as I know.
> 
> This seems like it has feelings.


Actually feelings would at least explain why someone would betray their spouse. In some ways not having feelings to drive someone to cheat is worse.

It was not a mistake it was a choice. 

Who gets so drunk that they spread their legs for another man. How is that ok. UFB. GMAFB.


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## Entropy3000

confusedhusband1 said:


> I didn't knowingly let her go on a date with him. She told me afterward after I called her out on it. I think I may have been too trusting. I thought that was what marriage was built on, love, trust, and respect.


No. Marriage is about Love and Respect. Trust is a by product. You should expect that your spouse not go out on dates. When they do they broke your trust. See how that works?

Trusting is lazy, naive and ambivalent. When you really care about someone you are involved in their lives. There is no place for blind trust. Protect your relationship.


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## lordmayhem

Shaggy said:


> You might try using a semen detection kit on her underwear when you suspect she may have met up with him.


:iagree:

Especially on those thongs.

*Checkmate*

CheckMate Infidelity Test Kit for Semen-Sperm Stain Detection.


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## Will_Kane

Based on the red flags you posted here, there is about a 100% chance that your wife is cheating on you, both emotionally and physically. Your first task is to get evidence. Buy a voice activated recorder and heavy duty velcro and put it under the seat of her car. Also put one in any room in the house where she goes to be alone to use the phone. You should have your proof within a week. If finances permit, hire a PI for the next time she goes our without you. Semen detection kit is good too. Once you have evidence you will confront, demand an end to the affair, no contact, and access to all communication devices and accounts. You also will expose to OMs wife/gf/family at that point. If she refuses to end it, go no contact or give you access to her devices/accounts, then you will expose to her and your family and friends to influence her to end it. Right now, act like you trust her while you investigate. It shouldn't take more than a week to get your proof.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

_*So I decide to look thru her purse just out of curiousity and she has a thong panty in a ziplock bag hidden in one of the zipper areas. Is it normal for women to keep an extra pair of panties in her purse? Plus she doesn't normally wear thongs.*_

WTF?????!!!!

No, it is NOT normal for women to keep panties in ziploc bags in their purses, much less, THONG panties.

You already know what the score is.

Call her out and tell her it ends or you end the marriage. No waffling, no negotiating with her. 

UGH. This store is bad.


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## mina

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thanks entropy. She asked why I was snooping thru her purse and got really pissed. I felt like she was just trying to divert the attention off of her.


That's a Bingo!


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## Malaise

Will_Kane said:


> Based on the red flags you posted here, there is about a 100% chance that your wife is cheating on you, both emotionally and physically. Your first task is to get evidence. Buy a voice activated recorder and heavy duty velcro and put it under the seat of her car. Also put one in any room in the house where she goes to be alone to use the phone. You should have your proof within a week. If finances permit, hire a PI for the next time she goes our without you. Semen detection kit is good too. Once you have evidence you will confront, demand an end to the affair, no contact, and access to all communication devices and accounts. You also will expose to OMs wife/gf/family at that point. If she refuses to end it, go no contact or give you access to her devices/accounts, then you will expose to her and your family and friends to influence her to end it. Right now, act like you trust her while you investigate. It shouldn't take more than a week to get your proof.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OP

For the love of whatever Deity you hold Sacred LISTEN to these peolple!


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## confusedhusband1

Well we had it out this afternoon. I called her at work today and said we needed to talk tonight. I didn't tell her about what, but it was important. When she got home we sat down and I was firm with her about all the bs lately. She broke down and told me that she had been having an affair for about 2 mos now.

I told her she was a horrible person for doing that to me and to get the hell out. She packed some stuff up in a bag or two and is now gone; probably at his place I assume.


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## somethingelse

Well...you got your answer. It's a terrible one

I'm sorry that you have to deal with this Confused.

What is your plan of action from here on out?


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## confusedhusband1

I'm going to talk to a lawyer next week and figure out my options. I still can't get it out of my mind that the last time we had sex, she had just had sex with him earlier that night.

I made love to her and gave her oral sex, kissed her an hour before this a hole was having sex with my wife. _t makes me sick._


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## somethingelse

confusedhusband1 said:


> I'm going to talk to a lawyer next week and figure out my options. I still can't get it out of my mind that the last time we had sex, she had just had sex with him earlier that night.
> 
> I made love to her and gave her oral sex, kissed her an hour before this a hole was having sex with my wife. _t makes me sick._


_

I know it can be hard to take in..

I have had the same feelings as you about my H lots before...it hurts a lot to think about it

you can vent all you want if it makes you feel less like killing someone..we're here to listen (or read)._


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## aug

Her ex-bf?

She's only admitting to what she thinks you know.

Do a paternity tests on your kids. Tests are cheap, about $100.

If the kids are yours, you do not leave the house. She does. This way you dont get hit for child abandonment during the divorce. 

Quickly protect your money. Shut down any joint accounts and credit cards. Have your own private bank account instead.


----------



## TDSC60

confusedhusband1 said:


> I didn't knowingly let her go on a date with him. She told me afterward after I called her out on it. I think I may have been too trusting. I thought that was what marriage was built on, love, trust, and respect.


For you it is. 

For her marriage is built on selfishness, entitlement, and keeping you at home for financial support and babysitting while she lives a party girl life with Ex-boyfriends and toxic girls friends.


----------



## Chaparral

Good job, you had all the proof you needed. Did she show any remorse? She was fine with being kicked out?


----------



## confusedhusband1

Chapparel she seemed sad, but at this point I don't know or even really give a shi. She pissed away our marriage. She can explain to people why it failed. How can I ever get over the thought of being with my wife again after what I now know.


----------



## Acabado

Sorry man. It was coming. Pack her stuff in garbage bags.
Go dark on her. Only kids/finances/logistics. 
Talk to a lawyer. don't let OM be around your kids!
Cut finances ASAP.


----------



## TDSC60

confusedhusband1 said:


> Chapparel she seemed sad, but at this point I don't know or even really give a shi. She pissed away our marriage. She can explain to people why it failed. How can I ever get over the thought of being with my wife again after what I now know.


She seemed sad because the free ride is over. No more ConfusedHusband sitting at home waiting on her to finish partying.

She is just sad that she got caught and must now pay the price for her cheating. 

Oh - it will all be all YOUR fault that the marriage failed. It will be because of you and how you treated her that she was unhappy and had to seek happiness with her ExBF. None of it will be because she was a selfish, cheating, lying ****.

She may come back soon begging for another chance - but this is the second time that you know of - there have probably been others that you don't know about. Be strong.

Get a shark lawyer. Most states are No Fault now, so it will not matter that she cheated. But the lawyer can fill you in. Now is the time for you to protect yourself and your kid(s). Now is the time for you to be a little selfish and distant.


----------



## TBT

Geez man,I'm sorry.I hate it...all the running around and bullsh*t a BS has to go through to get the barest amount of respect and honesty from the person who vowed to love and honor them is f'n unbelievable.Maybe they'll get the awakening they both deserve if she decided to show up on his doorstep.Just try to take care of yourself now....I know it's hard,but do your best.


----------



## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> I made love to her and gave her oral sex, kissed her an hour before this a hole was having sex with my wife. _t makes me sick._


_

I'm sure she got off on that one. Seems to be on a lot of women's bucket list, but she probably did that at the OM's instigation._


----------



## Chaparral

Machiavelli said:


> I'm sure she got off on that one. Seems to be on a lot of women's bucket list, but she probably did that at the OM's instigation.


Probably did it to both of them.


----------



## Gabriel

Hey man, stay on this message board. People here can help you far beyond figuring out what happened. The aftermath is hell and you will need all the support you can get. Stick around and we can help you through the process. You have a long way to go.


----------



## confusedhusband1

Thanks for the support gabriel


----------



## confusedhusband1

I'm sure she got off on that one. Seems to be on a lot of women's bucket list, but she probably did that at the OM's instigation. 


Whats the bucket list. Seeing me go down her after her boyfriend came in her? Its repulsive.


----------



## aug

Get yourself tested for a broad range of STDs.


----------



## somethingelse

I assure you Confused...it's not on a woman's bucket list...nor is it a "fantasy" or whatever. Unless there are some sickos out there...which I'm sure there might be..

It is very repulsive to think about. My suggestion is to get STD testing done asap. Take this day by day. Do not let the thought overtake you. And think about the next steps. Do not dwell on the thoughts you are having. It's of no use. You will only hurt yourself. 

I'm sure your W's head is turning right now too, and she is examining her own heart as well. I hope for her own sake, that she will come out of the fog she's in. She did admit to the A. That shows some conscience, which is a good sign. 

Just know that you are not alone in this. Many of us have had this experience sadly, and we understand the type of pain you are feeling. It will take some time to get over this, but you will come out of this stronger whether you D or not. I know it doesn't mean much to you right now, but it will eventually.


----------



## Shaggy

Immediately move at least 50% of your joint money into your account only and stop your pay going there.

Stop the credit cards - cut her off.

Call the cell company and stop her phone etc.

show her the life where you pay for her ended when she cheated.

expose to her friends and family that she has been cheating - send out a mass email and notice on FB.


----------



## Shaggy

Oh and pack up her clothes minus lingere and put it in garbage bags and put in on the porch.

The lingere - that you burn or put in the trash - it was for you and don't let her take it with her.


----------



## sharkeey

Acabado;995868
Talk to a lawyer. don't let OM be around your kids!
Cut finances ASAP.[/QUOTE said:


> He can't stop the OM from being around his kids, unless he poses some sort of threat to them.
> 
> If she's staying with the guy, it's inevitable.


----------



## TRy

confusedhusband1 said:


> Well we had it out this afternoon. I called her at work today and said we needed to talk tonight. I didn't tell her about what, but it was important. When she got home we sat down and I was firm with her about all the bs lately. She broke down and told me that she had been having an affair for about 2 mos now.
> 
> I told her she was a horrible person for doing that to me and to get the hell out. She packed some stuff up in a bag or two and is now gone; probably at his place I assume.


 Unlike all too many betrayed spouses that post to this board, you listened to advice and acted on what you knew in your heart was going on. By doing so you maintained your dignity and did not stretch things out. I am sorry that you are here, but look at you with respect.

Do not let her blame you for any of this. All cheaters blame shift and try to tell you why you drove them to it somehow. If you listen carefully you will see that from their point of view it is all about them and their needs and some how your needs do not enter into the conversation. The truth is they selfishly cheated because it was fun and exciting. If they are not able to blame you for one thing, they will just find another excuse to blame you. No one perfect, least of all cheaters, yet that is the standard that they will try use when they blame you. Do not buy into it for one second. Look her in the eye and tell her you call bull. Tell her that although you are not perfect you are a good man and a good husband and that you will not let her lie and say otherwise. Tell her that in real life no "one is perfect, deal with it".


----------



## iheartlife

I would still research the OM, figure out what there is to know about him. Especially, does he have a criminal record. There's a forum member on the boards right now who found out the OM has been arrested for domestic violence. You never know what you'll turn up.

Contrary to what someone else posted, in some states you CAN make sure that the custody agreement prevents some OM contact, including overnight stays, etc. Just talk to your lawyer about it and get the maximum language allowed by law into the agreement.

As far as exposure, tell her family. This is another way to help prevent the OM from coming around the kids. Obviously they might totally take her side, but at least they won't be under the illusion that she met him AFTER separating from you. (Another thing we've seen from delaying exposure: the spouse being able to say that they were "unhappy for years," playing the sympathy card, and having it be believed.)


----------



## Paulination

confusedhusband1 said:


> I confronted her about it and she told me it was no big deal, it was just silly flirting and that she loved me. I know that she has been out with him for coffee and at least one dinner, but again she said it was just catching up on some old times.


Spouses that do this with FB follow a very predictable script and it always reads exactly like this. Page forward a little and you will find the affair in that script. I suspect your wifes script is the same.


----------



## lordmayhem

sharkeey said:


> He can't stop the OM from being around his kids, unless he poses some sort of threat to them.
> 
> If she's staying with the guy, it's inevitable.


He can...*IF* he can get it included in the separation agreement. Its called a Morality Clause. He needs to have his lawyer include it when he has it drawn up.

Morality Clause: Prohibiting Cohabitation and Overnight Guests


----------



## lordmayhem

confusedhusband1 said:


> I'm going to talk to a lawyer next week and figure out my options. I still can't get it out of my mind that the last time we had sex, she had just had sex with him earlier that night.
> 
> I made love to her and gave her oral sex, kissed her an hour before this a hole was having sex with my wife. _t makes me sick._


_

This is just makes me want to vomit. And we all know that affair sex is almost always unprotected sex because its part of the lure of the affair. Thing is, she probably didn't tell the OM about it. You see, OM don't like like their MW having sex with their husbands. Same thing with OW. They can't stand the thought of their MM having sex with his wife. _


----------



## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> I'm sure she got off on that one. Seems to be on a lot of women's bucket list, but she probably did that at the OM's instigation.
> 
> 
> Whats the bucket list. Seeing me go down her after her boyfriend came in her? Its repulsive.


Not to her, nor to him when she told him about it. They don't really care about what you want.


----------



## Machiavelli

somethingelse said:


> I assure you Confused...it's not on a woman's bucket list...nor is it a "fantasy" or whatever. Unless there are some sickos out there...which I'm sure there might be..


Stick around. We get this story every third week.


----------



## confusedhusband1

Thanks again for all of the advice. The thing in my favor will be that I have been a stay at home dad since we have had kids. I basically quit my job after our first kid. I have done all the housework, kids transporting, etc. She has a pretty good job as an attorney so I will be getting child support and hopefully majority custody of the kids.

I've been with our kids more than she has. I'm going to get as much as I can for me and the kids. She can carry on with this a hole. They can have as much sex as they want to now

Her mom is floored. She seems to be on my side, but time will tell. My wife has reaped what she sowed.


----------



## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> Stick around. We get this story every third week.


Oh great. Aren't we the lucky ones


----------



## confusedhusband1

Machevilli I am not sure if it was a fantasy of hers or not, but its going to cost her so I hope it was worth it to her?


----------



## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thanks again for all of the advice. The thing in my favor will be that *I have been a stay at home dad* since we have had kids. *I basically quit my job *after our first kid. *I have done all the housework, kids transporting, etc*. She has a pretty good job as an attorney so I will be getting child support and hopefully majority custody of the kids.


Uggh.


----------



## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> Machevilli I am not sure if it was a fantasy of hers or not, but its going to cost her so I hope it was worth it to her?


Fantasy? More like an act of contempt.


----------



## confusedhusband1

contempt? what do you mean?


----------



## lordmayhem

Machiavelli said:


> Fantasy? More like an act of contempt.


:iagree:

On the cheater site, one WW got off on the idea of her husband going down on her after her OM had just been with her.


----------



## somethingelse

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> On the cheater site, one WW got off on the idea of her husband going down on her after her OM had just been with her.


That's really just awful and twisted
makes me sick

I still don't think that's normal


----------



## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> contempt? what do you mean?


I'll be brief as possible, got to hit the hay. Basically, when a guy becomes Mr. Mom, he's toast. Even if this is the wife's idea and she's the one that makes the case for it. After a while, the woman's limbic brain where sexual attraction lives turns off to the "subordinate male" and redirects to the Alpha males she sees every day. Once she starts banging other men and the BH doesn't even notice (remember wives think husbands should be able to read their minds) she decides he's an even bigger loser and starts, in your case, literally rubbing your face in it. She sees you as less than a man. No sh!t.

Female attraction doesn't come from rational thought, i.e. cortex, but responds to animalistic clues read and acted upon by the limbic brain. This is why women can rationalize and excuse almost any sexual misbehavior. They constantly have to rationalize the disconnect between their beliefs, morality etc and their actions which violate those stated beliefs up and down.


----------



## Machiavelli

somethingelse said:


> That's really just awful and twisted
> makes me sick
> 
> I still don't think that's normal


It is for women with a high degree of contempt for the husband. Happens all the time. Just like SAHD are the most likely guys to get adulterated.


----------



## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> It is for women with a high degree of contempt for the husband. Happens all the time. Just like SAHD are the most likely guys to get adulterated.


can a man contempt a woman the same way?


----------



## aug

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thanks again for all of the advice. The thing in my favor will be that I have been a stay at home dad since we have had kids. I basically quit my job after our first kid. I have done all the housework, kids transporting, etc. *She has a pretty good job as an attorney *so I will be getting child support and hopefully majority custody of the kids.
> 
> I've been with our kids more than she has. I'm going to get as much as I can for me and the kids. She can carry on with this a hole. They can have as much sex as they want to now
> 
> Her mom is floored. She seems to be on my side, but time will tell. My wife has reaped what she sowed.



I suggest you find a divorce lawyer she hates, one that's also a shark, to protect your interest.

She's going to have a team of lawyers that she can draw on for advice when she's going up against you.


----------



## Simon Phoenix

Machiavelli said:


> I'll be brief as possible, got to hit the hay. Basically, when a guy becomes Mr. Mom, he's toast. Even if this is the wife's idea and she's the one that makes the case for it. After a while, the woman's limbic brain where sexual attraction lives turns off to the "subordinate male" and redirects to the Alpha males she sees every day. Once she starts banging other men and the BH doesn't even notice (remember wives think husbands should be able to read their minds) she decides he's an even bigger loser and starts, in your case, literally rubbing your face in it. She sees you as less than a man. No sh!t.
> 
> Female attraction doesn't come from rational thought, i.e. cortex, but responds to animalistic clues read and acted upon by the limbic brain. This is why women can rationalize and excuse almost any sexual misbehavior. They constantly have to rationalize the disconnect between their beliefs, morality etc and their actions which violate those stated beliefs up and down.


Mach is dead on, a bullseye on the mark. To borrow a phrase from Oliver North, women excuse away their sexual misbehavior as having 'plausible deniability'. They had 'no idea' that the ex she'd been sending naked pictures to from her cell wanted to make out in that hotel room; she thought that all he wanted to do was talk. Sure, she only wanted to talk while taking off her clothes and revealing the lace panties that you never got to see her in, but she had no clue that doing so would lead to sex. By doing that, she can blameshift and gaslight once the ugly truth comes out without feeling a hint of remorse or regret. 

Few things turn women off faster than the thought of living with a house husband. In this country, a man is generally defined by 1) what he does for a living and 2) how much he makes in that living. Think about it for a sec; if she's a lawyer, what kind of guys she interacts with on a daily basis? Are there many house husbands-in waiting at the firm? Doubt it. If what I'm telling you isn't true, simply go to any bar or nightclub and tell a female about your desires of staying home with the kiddies while the woman works and see how far it gets you. Here's a hint; you'll have plenty of time to catch Sportscenter upon arriving home since you won't be preoccupied with unfastening someone's bra strap. 

The very fact that you stay at home makes you unattractive in her eyes. It doesn't matter whose idea it was, you staying home to clean the house and cook meals will not get many women horned up to drop their panties. Instead, she'll start thinking of more 'masculine' men she'd rather be with. Couple that with the rugsweeping you did the first time she messed around on you and it's no small wonder why she has so little respect for you. 

I'm glad that you had enough self-respect to file instead of give her yet another chance. This could've gone on for years if you stopped short, until she got to the point of dumping you. Focus on you and the kids in the meantime. Find out from your attorney whether you are in a no-fault state because if you are, she can still get custody, provided that she's the breadwinner of the house and the mother (moms win about 90 percent of custody cases). So be fully prepared to start working again because I know guys whose wives had affairs and still won custody after it was revealed that she made the majority of the $$$...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thanks again for all of the advice. The thing in my favor will be that I have been a stay at home dad since we have had kids. I basically quit my job after our first kid. I have done all the housework, kids transporting, etc. She has a pretty good job as an attorney so I will be getting child support and hopefully majority custody of the kids.
> 
> I've been with our kids more than she has. I'm going to get as much as I can for me and the kids. She can carry on with this a hole. They can have as much sex as they want to now
> 
> Her mom is floored. She seems to be on my side, but time will tell. My wife has reaped what she sowed.


You will need to get a job now to support yourself and contribute towards the support of your children. Child support will only cover part of their support. 

Since both of you will be working full time, the courts will most likely favor something close to 50/50 custody.


----------



## EleGirl

Confused, how old are your children?


----------



## Jonesey

EleGirl said:


> *You will need to get a job now to support yourself and contribute towards the support of your children. Child support will only cover part of their support. * Why??
> Women in USA seem to do fine with child support and
> alimony. So why can't confused do the same.
> 
> Women docent seem to mind ripping there EX husbands off. So why should a man in a rare case
> like this care.
> 
> Since both of you will be working full time, the courts will most likely favor something close to 50/50 custody.


----------



## EleGirl

Jonesey said:


> Why??
> 
> Women in USA seem to do fine with child support and
> alimony. So why can't confused do the same.


A woman in the same situation, living in the same state he’s in would get the same amount of child support he will get. Since we don’t know what state he’s in we cannot predict how much he might get. But I doubt that it will be enough to support him and the children in the life style they are accustomed to.
Man or women, the SAHM/D in this case will have to get a job. That’s life. 



Jonesey said:


> Women docent seem to mind ripping there EX husbands off. So why should a man in a rare case like this care.


Yes, some women don’t mind ripping off their ex’s. Some men don’t mind it either. In my case it was my exH who ripped me off as I put him through medical school and he stole a huge sum of money from me and hid it in accounts that we could not find. There was more to his ripping me off than that but it would take too long to catalogue it all. I am aware of many cases of men ripping off their wife.

Based on my experience, should I conclude that all men rip off their ex’s? Hardly. 

Getting the state mandated amount of child support is not ripping off one’s ex. He will most likely get some child support if he cannot get a job with equal income as his wife. But he will not get enough to live on. 

For example here in NM, child support for one child is about 10% of net income. The % for each additional child goes down. Let’s say for all of the children the OP will get child support of 20% of his wife’s income. I doubt he can live his current life style, much less any reasonable life style on 20% of her income. 

A woman in his position would also have to get a job to support herself. Child support is not enough to live on.


----------



## Jonesey

My apologies. i wasent attacking you personally,or
bashing and accusing all American women, to ripping of there ex husbands, in a divorce.
Its just as a European I'm stunned over US
divorce laws.That divorce laws almost, always are in favor of the soon to be ex-wife.When a betrayed husband decides to divorce his cheating wife.

It never seems to matter, or what and how long affair lasted. 1 month 5 years seems to make no different.Cheating wife always walks away fine.And betrayed husband gets shafted pretty good.It seem´s to always loose almost every thing in a divorce.Read BFF story and you will get the idea of what i meant.

Hence the statement why can't Op do the same.
I never new that until i came to infidelity forums

And I'm sorry that you had to experience the same.






EleGirl said:


> A woman in the same situation, living in the same state he’s in would get the same amount of child support he will get. Since we don’t know what state he’s in we cannot predict how much he might get. But I doubt that it will be enough to support him and the children in the life style they are accustomed to.
> Man or women, the SAHM/D in this case will have to get a job. That’s life.
> 
> 
> Yes, some women don’t mind ripping off their ex’s. Some men don’t mind it either. In my case it was my exH who ripped me off as I put him through medical school and he stole a huge sum of money from me and hid it in accounts that we could not find. There was more to his ripping me off than that but it would take too long to catalogue it all. I am aware of many cases of men ripping off their wife.
> 
> Based on my experience, should I conclude that all men rip off their ex’s? Hardly.
> 
> Getting the state mandated amount of child support is not ripping off one’s ex. He will most likely get some child support if he cannot get a job with equal income as his wife. But he will not get enough to live on.
> 
> For example here in NM, child support for one child is about 10% of net income. The % for each additional child goes down. Let’s say for all of the children the OP will get child support of 20% of his wife’s income. I doubt he can live his current life style, much less any reasonable life style on 20% of her income.
> 
> A woman in his position would also have to get a job to support herself. Child support is not enough to live on.


----------



## EleGirl

Jonesey said:


> My apologies. i wasent attacking you personally,or
> bashing and accusing all American women, to ripping of there ex husbands, in a divorce.
> Its just as a European I'm stunned over US divorce laws. That divorce laws almost, always are in favor of the soon to be ex-wife. When a betrayed husband decides to divorce his cheating wife.


Are you as concerned over the fact that the courts also do not care if a husband cheated every day of the marriage? Or are you only concerned when women do?

For the most part US divorce laws no fault. That means it does not matter if either the wife or the husband had an affair. The laws are not in favor of the cheating wife. 

Both of my now ex-husbands cheated on me through the entire marriage. It made no difference in the divorces. The courts do not care. They don’t care because there are so many divorces and the tax payers cannot afford to pay for the long ligation that is necessary to try adultery cases. 



Jonesey said:


> It never seems to matter, or what and how long affair lasted. 1 month 5 years seems to make no different. Cheating wife always walks away fine. And betrayed husband gets shafted pretty good. It seem´s to always loose almost every thing in a divorce.


It’s not true that in American divorce law men lose everything. You seem to assume that all assets in belong to the husband and if the woman gets any he’s being screwed over. In most American families the wife now works. She contributes financially to the accumulated assets.

In a marriage where one spouse stays home, the other spouse also contributes in ways that increase the marital assets. The working spouse can spend more energy on their career; they often earn more than a person in a marriage where both spouses work and both have to take care of the children. The assets belong to both spouse.


Jonesey said:


> Hence the statement why can't Op do the same.
> I never new that until i came to infidelity forums
> 
> And I'm sorry that you had to experience the same.


The OP will get the same deal a woman would… he’s going to get about 50% of the accumulated assets. He might get child support.. the amount is dependent on how much he can earn from working and the % of time he has the children. And, depending on the state he’s in, he might get some rehabilitative alimony for half the period of the marriage. But that’s state dependent. In New Mexico he would not get any alimony as he would have to be married for 20 years before that kicked in. And even at 20 years it’s unlikely that a man or woman would get alimony here. 

More and more states are dropping or seriously reducing alimony. It’s getting to the point in a lot of states where a spouse, man or woman, is a fool if they agree to stay home and raise children. They are left with no means of support should the marriage break up.

You will hear a lot of men complaining about how they were ripped off in an divorce. A lot of that tis because they believe that by virtue of them being men, all of the assets in the marital community belong to them. My son’s father.. the one who ripped me off was like that. To this day, 16 years later, he still tells people how I ripped him off because I got half the assets.. when I was the major support for most of our marriage. He forgets to tell people that. He also forgets to tell them about his moving money from our accounts to into his mother’s name to hide it from me and the courts.


----------



## happyman64

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thnks for the advice. It's a lot to process. I just doesn't seem appropriate for a married woman to have any contact with an ex and I told her that.
> 
> I don't talk to ex gf's. This guy is not married and I'm not sure he has a gf or not to answer your question.


Duuhhhhh!
Especially when she lies about it after numerous dates with him and hides his number in her phone........


----------



## Jonesey

I was merly talking when it came to infidelity. Like Bff situation, you think is fair? Belive it or not i would have felt the same if the roles where reversed. I dont dispute that women to get shafted big time .

It is just very often unresneble monatery amount recived in devorce coused by
A cheating ex spouse.

Maybe my way of seing it.Is because here in Sweden alimony is unheard of.


----------



## happyman64

confusedhusband1 said:


> I'm going to talk to a lawyer next week and figure out my options. I still can't get it out of my mind that the last time we had sex, she had just had sex with him earlier that night.
> 
> I made love to her and gave her oral sex, kissed her an hour before this a hole was having sex with my wife. _t makes me sick._


_

And that shows you just how much respect your wife has for you.

Can you do yourself a favor. Call her family today, and tell them that your wayward wife is no longer living with you and your children.

Then tell them about the ONS and the 2 month affair.

Then just ask them for their support as you and your kids go through this difficult time.

Do not ask why you should do this....

You do it so your wife feels consequences.

Because she not only screwed you over but your family and herself.

Make sure she feels it.

HM64_


----------



## happyman64

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thanks again for all of the advice. The thing in my favor will be that I have been a stay at home dad since we have had kids. I basically quit my job after our first kid. I have done all the housework, kids transporting, etc. She has a pretty good job as an attorney so I will be getting child support and hopefully majority custody of the kids.
> 
> I've been with our kids more than she has. I'm going to get as much as I can for me and the kids. She can carry on with this a hole. They can have as much sex as they want to now
> 
> Her mom is floored. She seems to be on my side, but time will tell. My wife has reaped what she sowed.


You should have told us about the SAHD status. This becoming a common theme lately.

Do us a favor. Since you are a SAd and she is a lawyer if you decide to D please stick it to her.

I dislike lawyers and I really hate woman who screw over their Stay At Home spouses.

Thanks

HM64


----------



## Machiavelli

somethingelse said:


> can a man contempt a woman the same way?


No.

ETA: to clarify a bit, generally, men don't respond or relate to women in anything like the way women do. The sexes are very, very different. A man can become contemptuous of his wife, but it wouldn't be expressed in that type of willful degradation. YMMV.


----------



## iheartlife

Machiavelli said:


> No.


I'm curious to understand you. By this, do you mean, that say a man sleeps with his mistress and then comes home and sleeps with his wife. I take it that what you're saying, from a biological / evolutionary / psychological standpoint, his sleeping with both women isn't intended as a negative reflection on his wife. To further read into what you're saying, I would guess that he's just horny and self-entitled, but not seeking to insult anyone.

But, it is still a sign of disrespect. I guess you're just saying it doesn't rise to a level of conscious contempt? But I could see where if a man thinks that women are basically chattel, and he'd just as soon smack 'em if they gave him any lip, that it is a sign of contempt in a way.

So I think you must be saying that they're two different *kinds* of contempt.

Man--you are my property

Woman--you are a wimp and I hate you for it

I'm not saying that I agree with you, just trying to ferret out your view.


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## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> No.
> 
> ETA: to clarify a bit, generally, men don't respond or relate to women in anything like the way women do. The sexes are very, very different. A man can become contemptuous of his wife, but it wouldn't be expressed in that type of willful degradation. YMMV.


So I take it that men are just more careless about their actions then a woman? Therefore they can have contempt towards the W, but do not let the contempt lead them to be spiteful in the same ways that a W would towards the H?

So when an H goes home to wifey after just having intimacy with AP, he wouldn't be "getting off" having intimacy with his W in such a way, because to him, the act of intimacy is not something he uses for self-gratification? 

Or am I just completely complicating this.


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## Machiavelli

iheartlife said:


> So I think you must be saying that they're two different *kinds* of contempt.
> 
> Man--you are my property
> 
> Woman--you are a wimp and I hate you for it
> 
> I'm not saying that I agree with you, just trying to ferret out your view.


A man having contempt for his wife would not be due to a visceral, unformed, biological rage, as is the case of the high-powered woman who hates her househusband for reasons she can't even put into words. Generally, I think a man would have contempt for very specific rational reasons. Wife is 300#, wife is lazy, etc. In this case, the woman has developed unconscious, yet extreme, contempt over time, because the husband did exactly what she asked him to do. i.e. be a househusband.

In this specific situation, the cream pie sessions, I think there is no female equivalent, due to the wife's deliberate, premeditated in-your-face, emasculation of the husband, literally debasing him below the men who have just used her. The closest you could get would be a man who physically beats his wife.


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## Machiavelli

somethingelse said:


> So I take it that men are just more careless about their actions then a woman? Therefore they can have contempt towards the W, but do not let the contempt lead them to be spiteful in the same ways that a W would towards the H?


Men can be pretty spiteful, but women rule spite. I can't speak from experience, but I would be very surprised if WHs ever develop anything approaching contempt for the BW as a result of an affair. Men are just wired differently. Now, you might think Joe Kennedy installing Gloria Swanson in his home and dinner table right beside Rose would be some high contempt. And JFK banging his SIL while Jackie was in the hospital would be the same. But that contempt for their BHs didn't arise from their affairs, but from their overall pure Alpha view that women only exist to fulfill their biological urges as they arise. 



somethingelse said:


> So when an H goes home to wifey after just having intimacy with AP, he wouldn't be "getting off" having intimacy with his W in such a way, because to him, the act of intimacy is not something he uses for self-gratification?


Not exactly. I think it's safe to say that even a$$hole Alpha men, even including the Kennedys, don't see the act of sex with the wife, even after visiting the mistress, as an assault on the wife's dignity and worth as a human being. In the case of a WW feeding the BH another man's ejaculate, that's exactly what it is. 



somethingelse said:


> Or am I just completely complicating this.


It's a worthwhile discussion.


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## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> Men can be pretty spiteful, but women rule spite. I can't speak from experience, but I would be very surprised if WHs ever develop anything approaching contempt for the BW as a result of an affair. Men are just wired differently. Now, you might think Joe Kennedy installing Gloria Swanson in his home and dinner table right beside Rose would be some high contempt. And JFK banging his SIL while Jackie was in the hospital would be the same. But that contempt for their BHs didn't arise from their affairs, but from their overall pure Alpha view that women only exist to fulfill their biological urges as they arise.
> 
> 
> 
> Not exactly. I think it's safe to say that even a$$hole Alpha men, even including the Kennedys, don't see the act of sex with the wife, even after visiting the mistress, as an assault on the wife's dignity and worth as a human being. In the case of a WW feeding the BH another man's ejaculate, that's exactly what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a worthwhile discussion.



I see what you are saying now.

So all the times my H came home to me after having party time with his AP, and would woo me into the bedroom, the only reason he did that was for his sense of Alpha entitlement? Being that he is an a$&*%@# Alpha...not because he wants me to pay. 

So can I throw this question at you then...

My H has always been a cheater since I met him..but after I cheated on him and told him about it, he told me that he had to get it off of his mind and began having A's all over again...

Based on your theory, he was only using my vulnerability to begin sowing seeds he had already felt entitled to sowing? He was angry with what I did, but used it as an excuse to cheat? It wasn't so much that he felt spiteful, but more so, like he wanted to do it?


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## Machiavelli

somethingelse said:


> I see what you are saying now.
> 
> So all the times my H came home to me after having party time with his AP, and would woo me into the bedroom, the only reason he did that was for his sense of Alpha entitlement? Being that he is an a$&*%@# Alpha...not because he wants me to pay.


I think that's probably the case. It's about his own ego as the big stud that women can't resist.



somethingelse said:


> My H has always been a cheater since I met him..but after I cheated on him and told him about it, he told me that he had to get it off of his mind and began having A's all over again...
> 
> Based on your theory, he was only using my vulnerability to begin sowing seeds he had already felt entitled to sowing? He was angry with what I did, but used it as an excuse to cheat? It wasn't so much that he felt spiteful, but more so, like he wanted to do it?


Based on the info you've given, I'd say you've probably got his number. A guy who is a serial adulterer, as opposed to a guy who has withstood the temptation, is going to have a much harder time living a monogamous lifestyle. This is just my impression based on my internal thought life. Once I have crossed a line like that in the past, it's going to be much harder to toe the line in the future. I think adulteresses probably have the same problem in the scenario you describe (pandora's box etc).

Sorry for the T/J.

Has Elvis left the building?


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## happyman64

CH1

I saw you did not post today.

I am sure the crap is flying this weekend and you have the children.

Just take care of yourself and the kids for now.

If your wife has communicated with you just be careful, listen and do not make any threats.

Stay calm as bets you can.

HM64


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## confusedhusband1

"In this specific situation, the cream pie sessions, I think there is no female equivalent, due to the wife's deliberate, premeditated in-your-face, emasculation of the husband, literally debasing him below the men who have just used her. The closest you could get would be a man who physically beats his wife. "

Mach this exactly how I feel. Emasculated. She called me today and we talked for a bit. Said she was sorry blah blah, I asked her how the hell she could do this to me. She had done it to me a couple times and said it felt incredible that she wasn't trying to degrade me. That she was just being a selfish bi. just concerned about her pleasure.

I told her to stay away and I was in no mood to see her. That if we need to converse about the kids needs we could do so. I will take care of their needs until I figure things out with the attorney and she was agreeable.


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## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> She had done it to me a couple times and said it felt incredible that she wasn't trying to degrade me. That she was just being a selfish bi. just concerned about her pleasure.


Repeatedly. And she just had to let you know it wasn't just the once. Now, isn't that special? 



confusedhusband1 said:


> I told her to stay away and I was in no mood to see her. That if we need to converse about the kids needs we could do so. I will take care of their needs until I figure things out with the attorney and she was agreeable.


Good luck going forward. Don't look back.


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## Shaggy

confusedhusband1 said:


> Thanks again for all of the advice. The thing in my favor will be that I have been a stay at home dad since we have had kids. I basically quit my job after our first kid. I have done all the housework, kids transporting, etc. She has a pretty good job as an attorney so I will be getting child support and hopefully majority custody of the kids.
> 
> I've been with our kids more than she has. I'm going to get as much as I can for me and the kids. She can carry on with this a hole. They can have as much sex as they want to now
> 
> Her mom is floored. She seems to be on my side, but time will tell. My wife has reaped what she sowed.


First expose this to everyone including the people she works with - she got off on your humliation, you deserve for her to feel how it feels.

Find out if the OM is married or has a GF -expose it to them and to his parents!

Lastly, find the laywer in town she hates the most. The one that humiliates her in court and bleeds her clients dry - that's the guy you want to hire.

make her bleed, make her a public laughing stock, and make her humiliated.


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## Shaggy

Oh, and since you are the primary care give - go for full custody. A woman loosing her kids is something she should feel.


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## confusedhusband1

Hey shaggy thanks for the advice. I am going to go for full custody. As far as exposing her and the affair; I am going to obvoiusly tell friends and family, but am hesitent on going in to to much detail.

I don't want to put my kids in any uncomfortable situations. My oldest will be entering first grade. Plus she was apparently getting off on me going down on her after her bf had sex with her first and I don't want that public knowledge with friends or family as you can imagine.


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## Shaggy

confusedhusband1 said:


> Hey shaggy thanks for the advice. I am going to go for full custody. As far as exposing her and the affair; I am going to obvoiusly tell friends and family, but am hesitent on going in to to much detail.
> 
> I don't want to put my kids in any uncomfortable situations. My oldest will be entering first grade. Plus she was apparently getting off on me going down on her after her bf had sex with her first and I don't want that public knowledge with friends or family as you can imagine.


Tell what you are comfortable telling. You maybe don't have to spell it out, but if asked by anyone you might say, she has sex with him, and then came home and had sex with me right away.

They'll put two and two together and see how awful she acted, and it reveal her character to them and that this was a particularly nasty betrayal.


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## Simon Phoenix

Good luck with your recovery. Trust me, there's no dignity performing mop-up duty after someone else just finished unloading his seed into your spouse so if given the chance, take her to the cleaners.

I'd rather swallow my own bile than go down on my wife after she just had another dude's Johnson in her, but most of us have been there and is still in recovery mode. I know I am...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

CH1

I can understand being discrete about your StBXW's sexual escapades but do take Shaggy's advice about letting her family know that she was setting you up for cleanup duties or back to back sex.

Not to embarrass you or your wife but to let them know just how sick your wife's treatment of you was.

That is a serious lack of respect shown to you.

Not only that, she has shown what serious lack of self esteem she has for herself.

They need to understand just what type of person she has become.

A pretty messed up person!

Sorry you are going through this and your young kids too.

HM64


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## confusedhusband1

Simon thanks for the support. I have gotton quite a few pm's from guys that have been in the same situation. That their wives were getting off by the thought of being with two men in the same night and their husband not knowing, that they were making their husband almost a subordinate and showing their dominance.


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## happyman64

confusedhusband1 said:


> Simon thanks for the support. I have gotton quite a few pm's from guys that have been in the same situation. That their wives were getting off by the thought of being with two men in the same night and their husband not knowing, that they were making their husband almost a subordinate and showing their dominance.


CH1

No matter what you decide to do just do it by showing your WW your dominance 100 times stronger.

HM64


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## Machiavelli

confusedhusband1 said:


> Simon thanks for the support. I have gotton quite a few pm's from guys that have been in the same situation. That their wives were getting off by the thought of being with two men in the same night and their husband not knowing, that they were making their husband almost a subordinate and showing their dominance.


This is a secondary manifestation of female hypergamy. They need to reinforce the male hierarchy with the BH as subordinate to the OM(s). It's just a closed feedback loop that feeds her rationalization hamster justifying the adultery.


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## Shaggy

Well then she should really enjoy you doing her back then?

Get the best alpha dog lawyer you can.

I wonder can you go after her for pain and suffering due to havng sex like thst? Maybe you can extract more from her.


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## happyman64

Shaggy said:


> Well then she should really enjoy you doing her back then?
> 
> Get the best alpha dog lawyer you can.
> 
> I wonder can you go after her for pain and suffering due to havng sex like thst? Maybe you can extract more from her.


Now you are thinking like an attorney Shaggy that is going after another attorney.

I like it......


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## Ansley

confusedhusband1 said:


> Hey shaggy thanks for the advice. I am going to go for full custody. As far as exposing her and the affair; I am going to obvoiusly tell friends and family, but am hesitent on going in to to much detail.
> 
> I don't want to put my kids in any uncomfortable situations. My oldest will be entering first grade. Plus she was apparently getting off on me going down on her after her bf had sex with her first and I don't want that public knowledge with friends or family as you can imagine.


Im sorry this happened. You dont need to tell the family that specific detail. They need to know she cheated and now your marriage isnt repairable. 

You mentioned her mom knowing....what happened when you told her? does your wife know her mother knows? 

Also...is she an attorney or does she work for one?

I cant believe she left her kids behind. Couples break up. Its sad but true. When a mom leaves her kids behind I think that is the worst.


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## confusedhusband1

Hey Ainsley. Yes she is an attorney. She left when I told her to get out. She did see them tonight though. Her mom was extremely upset and disappointed in her. 

I did tell her about the affair.


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## Acabado

Well done


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## happyman64

How was she with the kids CH1?

Did she try to engage you?


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## Mr Blunt

Confusedhusband

If you have made up your mind that you and her are through, and it sure appears that way, then here is my advice.

Try not to spend too much energy on revenge; I know that is very hard. Instead, use all your energy from being shyt on to get you and your children in the best position possible. Make a plan for the 1-5-10 years from now so that you are a better man and your children can escaped most of the pain.

You and your children should have your 100% attention and action to make it better for all of you. Your children will never feel the way that you do about your wife. She is their mother and they will be somewhat attached to her no matter what. I am not saying that they will choose her over you but that they will have some attachment to her.

If you handle this right you will recover and be glad that you got over a woman that has proven to be a serial adulteress. *Use your new born energy to become better so that you can be helpful to your children and yourself. Your wife is history and should be kept out of your life as much as possible. there is no confusion about that is there?*

You now have a lot of new energy; use it wisely!


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