# Living a Lie



## NewLife2017 (Aug 16, 2014)

I have seen on more than one occasion in stories told by others that not disclosing an affair to the BS means the BS & WS are living a lie.

I can see that to a certain point. But, in my mind, when a WS ends the affair with the OM/OW that act ends the lie. The WS realizes the damage they have done and leaves it behind them. And hopefully is a good, loyal & faithful partner. Thus, "living a lie" ends. 

I hope I'm coming across ok because this is confusing to me.

Any thoughts?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh you are going to get beat up for that post 

It depends on the situation. I think that in some cases what you say is true. It's true if the WS never has another affair and is dedicated to their spouse and the marriage from then on out.

What I've read is that counselors suggest not telling about half the time. Or perhaps it's more clearly stated that about half of the counselors advise to not tell, never repeat and spend the rest of their live living in a way to make it up to their spouse.

I think that it's situation dependent. In most cases I think that the BS has the right to know and the right to decide if they want to continue in the marriage.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sorry, but no.

In failing to disclose an affair -- whether in the past or ongoing -- to his or her BS, the WS is robbing the BS of a choice that should be his/hers alone... i.e. whether or not he/she should _remain_ in a marriage in which he/she has been betrayed by his/her spouse. Additionally, the WS escapes accountability (as in actual, FULL accountability) for his/her decision to engage in an affair. And, without accountability, there can be no true atonement.

PERIOD.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm usually suspicious of words and phrases designed to stereotype what may be a good situation (viz. a former unconfessed cheater living a reasonably good marriage) into a deviant action; hence, "living a lie". "Living a lie" is a product of human perception,


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

NewLife2017 said:


> I have seen on more than one occasion in stories told by others that not disclosing an affair to the BS means the BS & WS are living a lie.
> 
> I can see that to a certain point. But, in my mind, when a WS ends the affair with the OM/OW that act ends the lie. The WS realizes the damage they have done and leaves it behind them. And hopefully is a good, loyal & faithful partner. Thus, "living a lie" ends.
> 
> ...


So I imagine you are the WS and want a free pass on this? The reason being, you kid yourself you are doing it for the protection of the BS, rather than because you do not want to face the consequences and be accountable for your actions.

You have no right to make that choice for the BS, further what is to keep you accountable in the future? If you can talk yourself into justifying the first betrayal you can definitely talk yourself into subequent affairs and betrayals. IMO this is just one big cowardly excuse that made you become a WS in the first place. People of integrity slip up but they do not continue to perpetrate the lie.

Further, the seeds of doubt are often already planted in the mind and heart of the BS, they probably know in their gut, just don't have the proof, that is no way to leave a person in that state, if you truly care for them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It all depends.

In some cases the truth can heal but in some cases it can hurt.

I have been a victim of such truthfulness and though it hurt I was glad my wife was truthful.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

IMO lies NEVER protect the victim of a wrong....they only serve to protect the perpetrator.

To argue otherwise is simply to engage in verbal semantics to justify the unjustifiable.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I would want to know so my bias comes from that perspective. 

Not telling is also another form of rug sweeping. It can bite just as 
Much as when two people rug sweep together in the form of guilt or continued affairs.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

I think it depends.

Long ago my H had a one night stand with some woman he met in a bar.

I could have gone my entire life without knowing about that. The mental movies suck.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

OP,

How does the WS say in truthfulness, "I love you forever", "You are the only one I've ever loved", "Our marriage was... fill in blank". All lies, regardless of the BS knowledge of the truth. Thus, the BS has lived in lies. 

BTW, the untold lies will and do taint the marriage.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

NewLife2017 said:


> I have seen on more than one occasion in stories told by others that not disclosing an affair to the BS means the BS & WS are living a lie.
> 
> I can see that to a certain point. But, in my mind, when a WS ends the affair with the OM/OW that act ends the lie. The WS realizes the damage they have done and leaves it behind them. And hopefully is a good, loyal & faithful partner. *Thus, "living a lie" ends*.
> 
> ...


Thus, 'Living a Lie' ends. Okay, let's take a look at the lie.

*The lie* is that the adulterer has been faithful in their marriage and has led their spouse to believe that they have been true to them and honoured their commitment.

*The truth* is that the adulterer has been unfaithful, that they haven't honoured their commitment and haven't been honest and true to their spouse. That is a fact, ending the affair doesn't change the fact that it happened, knowledge of the affair is kept hidden. Therefore the lie continues.

If at any point in time the adulterer is asked if they have been faithful in their marriage and the adulterer responds in affirmation, then that is still living a lie.

As long as the truth is withheld, the lie is perpetuated, the adulterer is still 'living a lie' and propogating its deception.

The adulterer 'realizing the damage that they've done and leaving it behind them' basically translates to, "Oh s***. I seriously f***** up but I reeeeeeeeeaally don't want to take any responsibility for my choices and I DEFINITELY don't want to face any consequences. Hmmm, I know. I'll keep my mouth shut, that way I don't have to.. brilliant."


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

OH no you Di' int!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

RWB said:


> OP,
> 
> How does the WS say in truthfulness, "I love you forever", "You are the only one I've ever loved", "Our marriage was... fill in blank". All lies, regardless of the BS knowledge of the truth. Thus, the BS has lived in lies.
> 
> BTW, the untold lies will and do taint the marriage.


All those statements can be completely true. Sex and love are not the same, though I acknowledge that some people do think so.

Anyway, some BS would want to know, and some would not. This is something that perhaps should be discussed hypothetically early on in a relationship, or learned from comments made when talking about other people or something on TV. We discussed this early on, and both agreed that a long ago, never repeated infidelity is not something we'd want to be told of later. At the time or soon afterwards is the only time we'd want to know about it.


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## NewLife2017 (Aug 16, 2014)

I have been on TAM for almost a year and had seen that said many times. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

NewLife2017 said:


> I have seen on more than one occasion in stories told by others that not disclosing an affair to the BS means the BS & WS are living a lie.
> 
> I can see that to a certain point. But, in my mind, when a WS ends the affair with the OM/OW that act ends the lie. The WS realizes the damage they have done and leaves it behind them. And hopefully is a good, loyal & faithful partner. Thus, "living a lie" ends.
> 
> ...


You are preparing to be married. You have suffered the trauma of rape in your past. It took many years of therapy to work through your feelings. In the past your spouse was a rapist. One of his victims was an underage girl. In his mind he will never rape again. Do you want to know? Do you want to know before you have children with this man?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> All those statements can be completely true. Sex and love are not the same, though I acknowledge that some people do think so.
> 
> Anyway, some BS would want to know, and some would not. This is something that perhaps should be discussed hypothetically early on in a relationship, or learned from comments made when talking about other people or something on TV. We discussed this early on, and both agreed that *a long ago, never repeated infidelity is not something we'd want to be told of later.* At the time or soon afterwards is the only time we'd want to know about it.


Using the above quoted reply (specifically the part in bold) as a metric by which to gauge the scenario described in the other, current thread on this same issue, I'd point out that there were two affairs, the first of which lasted for roughly 4 years. I'd say that alone counts as _repeated_ infidelity, and even w/o the second affair.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

NewLife2017 said:


> I have seen on more than one occasion in stories told by others that not disclosing an affair to the BS means the BS & WS are living a lie.
> 
> I can see that to a certain point. But, in my mind, when a WS ends the affair with the OM/OW that act ends the lie. The WS realizes the damage they have done and leaves it behind them. And hopefully is a good, loyal & faithful partner. Thus, "living a lie" ends.
> 
> ...


A relationship is built on faith & trust. A spouses character is only as good as their ability to be faithful & trustful. 

To betray and then not inform the spouse is to live a lie. It also tells me that betrayer is by and large worthless and will also be so in many other ways.

And the longer the lie continues, the worse it is.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Using the above quoted reply (specifically the part in bold) as a metric by which to gauge the scenario described in the other, current thread on this same issue, I'd point out that there were two affairs, the first of which lasted for roughly 4 years. I'd say that alone counts as _repeated_ infidelity, and even w/o the second affair.


By our standards, it is long enough ago that it would make no difference in our views and can be seen as a long ago _period of time_ where infidelity occurred, with attitude and behavior changes for the better thereafter.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> By our standards, it is long enough ago that it would make no difference in our views and can be seen as a long ago _period of time_ where infidelity occurred, with attitude and behavior changes for the better thereafter.


I suppose the only important thing here is that you're both of the same opinion. From the outside looking in, though, it would seem that your spouse is as comfortable w/ the thought of lying to you as you are to her. That's not a prospect that most folks would find at all comforting, but hey... if it works for y'all, that's great.

And, to be honest, I'd expect that any couple in an open marriage -- and therefore having a somewhat relaxed view w/ respect to sexual fidelity within marriage -- might have different standards w/ respect to honesty, at least as it pertains to sexual infidelity.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

aine said:


> So I imagine you are the WS and want a free pass on this? The reason being, you kid yourself you are doing it for the protection of the BS, rather than because *you do not want to face the consequences *and be accountable for your actions.



I don't see a lot of difference between the above and some BS cat who wants to reconcile because he'd lose a lot in a divorce. What's worse than staying with a spouse that don't give a rats azz about you so you can maintain your standard of living?


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

I guess you might hide an affair if you have cleaned up all the evidence. A random system restore revealed my wife's A that lasted 8 months between 2010 and 2011; in living colour, complete with emails. She says it was so long ago she doesn't remember (Bull), I'm still hurting like it happened yesterday. In retrospect her behaviour told the story, I just never picked up. Can you really hide something like an affair?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> I don't see a lot of difference between the above and some BS cat who wants to reconcile because he'd lose a lot in a divorce. What's worse than staying with a spouse that don't give a rats azz about you so you can maintain your standard of living?


LOL. The difference between the two cases essentially boils down to uninformed acquiescence vs. informed consent.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

It's a complicated situation made even more complicated by rationalization and justification to obscure objectivity.

You need to be clear about your intention.

For the betrayer, you may feel horrible, and feel like 'unloading' your guilt onto your spouse. Which isn't good -- you're giving them a whole bag of **** to deal with, and on top of that, you're seeking absolution.

On the other hand, for the betrayer, keeping quiet may seem like the 'gentle' thing to do. A cross for them to bear, a burden for them to take on.

For the betrayed, they may know, and not want to acknowledge they know. Because it's embarrassing, because they can't deal with it... all kinds of things.

Or for the betrayed, suspecting and not knowing may drive them crazy. Or if it ever did come out (and nobody's perfect, affairs 20 years later are discovered all the time), it can hurt even more because they would have thrown away all this time living with a betrayer.

All kinds of rationalizations and justifications.

At the end of the day, the truth is the truth. Are you going to live honestly and with honour, or not?

And if you can live with yourself not living that way, at least do the decency to let your partner know -- you know, the one that built their life around you?

You can pretend you're doing them a solid by not telling them. You can pretend you're doing yourself a solid by not knowing. 

But then you're just willfully not wanting to live in reality, right? 

I've rarely seen that end well.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> LOL. The difference between the two cases essentially boils down to uninformed acquiescence vs. informed consent.


Or my observation;trading an improved quality of life by ditching a spouse, who lost interest in you and cheated, for perceived economic substance. When you do that, you shouldn't complain about "little or no sex since the R" or when you get the second round of so called "red flags".


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

marduk said:


> Or for the betrayed, suspecting and not knowing may drive them crazy. Or if it ever did come out (and nobody's perfect, affairs 20 years later are discovered all the time), it can hurt even more because they would have *thrown away all this time* living with a betrayer.


Exactly.... When I caught my wife in brief but EAPA with long ago BF I was wrecked. She swore it was the only time she had been unfaithful in 30 years, but i had been suspicious for years. In time, I discovered another LT EAPA with another man from 7 years prior. 

Facade: 7 years... To me it felt like 7 minutes. All the efforts I "thought" I was putting towards our marriage were never received. She alone knew the one I loved cared for was not real, an imposter. 

Reality: In an instant, I had complete clarity... *7 years of my life had been maliciously Stolen, memories tainted, shattered forever. *



marduk said:


> But then you're just willfully not wanting to *live in reality*, right?


Willfully for the Betrayer, Unwillfully for the Betrayed.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

RWB said:


> Willfully for the Betrayer, Unwillfully for the Betrayed.


Some would rather not know.

And I get why, I just don't think it's a positive path.

But everybody gets to make their own choice.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

marduk said:


> Some would rather not know.
> 
> And I get why, I just don't think it's a positive path.
> 
> But everybody gets to make their own choice.


Unless the cheater takes that choice away.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I think the main issue, here, is will the lies be repeated, or the deception be maintained.? 
If person A has an affair, realizes their folly, and NEVER, EVER repeats it, is their marriage, "living a lie"?
It depends on if anything about the affair, real or hypothetical is ever discussed, which would call upon the WS to continue the deceit. If the BS ever asks the WS, questions like, "did you ever cheat," Have you always been faithful" Etc, then, yes, it is living a lie. Why? Because the deception is on-going.
The motivation of the WS isn't as important as the need to maintain the "illusion" of a good , faithful marriage. In order for this to happen, then the deceit must be maintained with even more lies.
Does anybody here really think that a marriage based upon deception is ultimately going to be a good thing? 
Look at it from a little different perspective. If your business partner embezzled money from your partnership, realized it and didn't do it again, does that put the money back into the company?
The bottom line is, that the idea of "no harm, no foul" is a myth.


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## badaboom (Feb 19, 2015)

I agree with others (Gus, as always, says what I need to hear) that it is up for the BS to make the decision to stay in the marriage with the knowledge of how they have been betrayed. I do think there are probably situations in which a one night drunken fling happened, the WS knows that it was a terrible thing to do and makes the internal decision to never do so again. But it seems more often than not, cheaters who are not exposed for their wrongful behavior will be more likely to repeat it. 

In my situation, yes, I would prefer to not know the details of my husband's continued affair (yes, still going on now), because it makes me sad, sick, angry, etc. But I need to know what I'm dealing with. My situation is a little different in that my husband is still continuing to lie to me about the extent of his relationship with her. I've seen pictures, showed him the pictures of them out together. But he still lies. And will continue to lie. 

So i guess my situation is a little different, since he's sorry, but not really. He's sorry he got caught. On some level he's probably sorry he hurt me, maybe. 

Basically, I feel like the answer to this question, like so many others on this forum and in our lives, is very specific to the situation and the people in it. For me, I know that I needed to know what was going on, so that I could either make the decision to wait out his affair or tell him to F off (sadly I'm still in limbo on that one). But as much as it hurts to have the images of them together in my mind, the state of not knowing would be much worse. 

ALSO - having to dig and find this out instead of him being honest.... that has made it all so much worse.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Rookie4 said:


> I think the main issue, here, is will the lies be repeated, or the deception be maintained.?
> If person A has an affair, realizes their folly, and NEVER, EVER repeats it, is their marriage, "living a lie"?


Yes.

Only one caveat there: I've been in relationships where the other person explicitly told me that if I ever had a one night fling, not to tell her.

She honestly didn't want to know.

I, of course realized that also meant that if she did, she wouldn't tell me, either.

So it was pretty short lived.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Great point Marduk.

I have noticed this too.

I know a few people, and have dated a couple women, who have INSISTED they never wanted to know about a short fling.

But most were also they type of person who would never tell if they were the cheater...and thought this was OK because they extended the same 'free pass', or whatever you want call it, to their BS.

Some people are just comfortable living in dishonesty.

And I agree, discovering this view in a gf is an instant deal breaker for me....I WON'T live a lie.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

marduk said:


> Yes.
> 
> Only one caveat there: I've been in relationships where the other person explicitly told me that if I ever had a one night fling, not to tell her.
> 
> ...


This is all perfectly true, but then, this would be an "open relationship" .....even if you don't call it that. If one or the other parties are willing to allow their SO to have "flings", then it really isn't a committed relationship at all, is it?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

The really problem becomes that when you do this and break your vows you can't ever really know if the other party would want to be to told or not unless of course you tell them. People have the right to the information to make the informed decision. When the WS keeps this from the BS it keeps them from having the choice. This is as insane to me as a DR not telling you your cancer test results because he thinks you'll worry to much if you know the truth. That isn't his decision to make.

I guess if you know for a fact that your spouse told you if you ever cheat don't tell me then you are good to go. But if I heard my wife say that I would be suspicious she was already cheating. I wouldn't marry a person who said that to me anyway because I need to know that infidelity is an absolute deal breaker both ways.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Rookie4 said:


> This is all perfectly true, but then, this would be an "open relationship" .....even if you don't call it that. If one or the other parties are willing to allow their SO to have "flings", then it really isn't a committed relationship at all, is it?


I don't think her intent was that it was a free for all.

I honestly think her intent was for me not to tell her if I had a one night thing -- I had been travelling for work a lot at the time. She cared about me deeply; and she just honestly didn't want to know.

It was the realization that she wouldn't tell me if something happened when I was away that made me turf the relationship.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

NewLife2017 said:


> I have seen on more than one occasion in stories told by others that not disclosing an affair to the BS means the BS & WS are living a lie.
> 
> I can see that to a certain point. But, in my mind, when a WS ends the affair with the OM/OW that act ends the lie. The WS realizes the damage they have done and leaves it behind them. And hopefully is a good, loyal & faithful partner. Thus, "living a lie" ends.
> 
> ...


It is called a lie of omission. KEY information about what the BS is dealing with is left out, to the selfish benefit of the cheating partner.

Let's make this simpler to understand.

How about if instead of cheating, the "cheater' was poisoning his spouse? You know, they wanted to kill em.

One day, they realized that it was wrong to try to kill their spouse and stopped putting poison in the oatmeal.

Should they reveal their murderous ways? Does the poisoned spouse have a right to know that they're sleeping next to the person who tried to kill 'em?


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## NewLife2017 (Aug 16, 2014)

I appreciate everyone's input on this thread. I have a better understanding what this means now. I hope this didn't cause additional pain for anyone. That was not my intention.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I don't see a lot of difference between the above and some BS cat who wants to reconcile because he'd lose a lot in a divorce. What's worse than staying with a spouse that don't give a rats azz about you so you can maintain your standard of living?


The difference is that the 'BS cat' at least gets to make an informed choice when opting to stay with the WS. 

Cheated on: not an informed choice. Staying with fWS: informed choice. Huge difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

NewLife2017 said:


> I have seen on more than one occasion in stories told by others that not disclosing an affair to the BS means the BS & WS are living a lie.
> 
> I can see that to a certain point. * But, in my mind, when a WS ends the affair with the OM/OW, that act ends the lie. The WS realizes the damage they have done and leaves it behind them. And hopefully is a good, loyal & faithful partner. Thus, "living a lie" ends.*
> 
> ...


* Oh, but "the lie" continues to live in seclusion, breeding and festering, until such time that the truth eventually comes out through any possible number of sources, to be tragically dealt with by all parties involved!

There are no "hall passes" issued for infidelity or for its major vehicle of choice so aptly referred to as "deception!"*


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

arbitrator said:


> * Oh, but "the lie" continues to live in seclusion, breeding and festering, until such time that the truth eventually comes out through any possible number of sources, to be tragically dealt with by all parties involved!
> 
> There are no "hall passes" issued for infidelity or for its major vehicle of choice so aptly referred to as "deception!"*


My ex-wife thought she would never have to cough up the truth.

She thought she had wrapped up the truth so perfectly in her cover stories that she could take it to her grave.

The problem was that i had huge suspicions and actively tried to find out what happened, the process took years and i waited too long to spring a trap.

I bluffed her and she admitted some and then trickled out the truth.

It took many years to do it. 

She wasn't actively cheating at that point and thought she was doing what a wife is supposed to do.

And no, she was not!

So self absorbed she forgot how to be a good wife decades earlier.

Her disturbing behavior finally had to be addressed and I divorced her.


Maybe if she had been truthful much earlier there would have been a chance at fixing things. But not with her so strenuously being deceptive for so long.


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## cgiles (Dec 10, 2014)

Remind me the story posted by a woman on another forum.

She had an affair 4 years before, it ended, she was fine with her husband, he didn't knew the truth.

One day as she walked with him in the street, a 14yo treated her of b*tch. 

The husband catched him and told him he should not insult a stranger. 
The teenager answered him than if his wife was not ****ing married men, he would not treat her of b*tch.

The husband finds out, I think he divorced, not sure.

The point is if the ws doesn't tell the truth, the BS maybe we learn it by someone else, and the damage will be worst.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I know lots of people like the 'warm and fuzzy' approach of "I'll never let it happen again, why hurt my spouse by telling them?"

For me, that's relegated squarely to unicorns and rainbows land. Skittles everywhere.

I prefer the 'cold and sharp' approach of full disclosure. Here's why.

1. *Any sexual contact with another human has implicit health risks and you owe full knowledge of that risk to your partner.* Condoms fail. Oral sex can still (infrequently) transmit disease. You have no right to an even small risk to your partner's health integrity.

2. *You have breached the contract of your agreement.* Quite literally, I believe a continuation of this agreement like it never happened is tantamount to fraud.

3. *You are at risk of doing it again.* The infidelity happened for a reason. That reason needs to be brought to light. Perhaps you can't be trusted. Perhaps your parnter isn't giving you what you need. Perhaps lots of things that won't be fixed unless it's dealt with under the light of day.

4. *You can never, ever be sure it won't come out. *It may be a fight 10 years from now where you blurt it out. It may be running into your affair partner. It may be an STD that shows up out of the blue. It may be DNA testing your kid for a disease they couldn't have. It may be stumbling over old photos, letters, or a friend saying something that doesn't line up. Not all lies stay buried. Imagine how much worse a lie is if it's not owned up to and discovered, perhaps decades later.

5. *You no longer deserve this relationship or anything your partner gives you without knowing the truth.* You may have had your reasons. Hell, I've had friends of ours live sexless for years before the wife had a fling. I get why she did it -- no sex. But this gave her reason to leave, not free reign to cheat.

Do the right thing. The only way is truth.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

For me, the 30 years she hid numerous important things from me were living a lie. She took my ability to make an informed decision about my own life. Every day I was denied the right to make that decision was a day taken from me. Especially when things were bad, sometimes on the brink of me leaving the marriage, the lack of full knowledge thoroughly changed the landscape from totally unacceptable into a false impression of worth me making more sacrifices.

Others who were deceived, lied to, or betrayed may feel it wasn't living a lie for them when they did not know. That is certainly their right to feel that way. For me, though, it was decades of living a lie.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Thor said:


> For me, the 30 years she hid numerous important things from me were living a lie. She took my ability to make an informed decision about my own life. Every day I was denied the right to make that decision was a day taken from me. Especially when things were bad, sometimes on the brink of me leaving the marriage, the lack of full knowledge thoroughly changed the landscape from totally unacceptable into a false impression of worth me making more sacrifices.
> 
> Others who were deceived, lied to, or betrayed may feel it wasn't living a lie for them when they did not know. That is certainly their right to feel that way. For me, though, it was decades of living a lie.


Well said, sir.

All of it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Maybe if she had been truthful much earlier there would have been a chance at fixing things. But not with her so strenuously being deceptive for so long."

Yep....I don't think people who can easily and casually lie realize that the dishonesty is as damaging as the emotional or physical betrayal.

Liars are so fluid with the truth, and so comfortable with half-truths and deception, that it never occurs to them that this is a dealbreaker boundary to some people.


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## badaboom (Feb 19, 2015)

Dyokemm said:


> "Maybe if she had been truthful much earlier there would have been a chance at fixing things. But not with her so strenuously being deceptive for so long."
> 
> Yep....I don't think people who can easily and casually lie realize that the dishonesty is as damaging as the emotional or physical betrayal.
> 
> Liars are so fluid with the truth, and so comfortable with half-truths and deception, that it never occurs to them that this is a dealbreaker boundary to some people.


"Easily and casually lie" - that's a good way to put it. It's one of the things that makes my rational mind know that this is most likely unfixable. My husband continues to lie to me. I have shown him pictures of him with her, but he continues to lie about it. He did a video call with my daughter at the OW's house (this is something I have expressly told him I did not want to ever happen), and lied and said he was at the park. Because he's selfish. Wants what he wants, when he wants. And doesn't give a rat's a$$ about my feelings on the matter. He lies about everything. If he came to me 6 months from now (or even if he came today) and said he wanted to fix this and make it work, he'd have so much work to do to give me the truthful answers that he previously gave lies to. He does lie so fluidly that I don't know how I can ever trust him. I'm scared to even trust him alone with my daughter, since he's lied about so much, how can I believe him when he says he won't bring the OW around her?? I can't. And I won't, for a long long time.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Personally, I think the myth of "taking the affair to the grave" is just that.....a " feel good" myth. It's like Sasquatch or the Loch Ness monster, it has never been proven, so until it is...it remains speculation.
An affair never dies, until it is revealed. So, as long as it remains a secret, the lie is continued, it cannot be anything else. Whether this is harmful or not, I will leave to the individual, but it clearly is deception.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Or my observation;trading an improved quality of life by ditching a spouse, who lost interest in you and cheated, for perceived economic substance. When you do that, you shouldn't complain about "little or no sex since the R" or when you get the second round of so called "red flags".


But that's the crux of the matter for both sides, isn't it? I believe the majority of cases of infidelity do not involve fundamentally broken people. The majority of cases involve a degradation of the marriage, and the cheater ties to fill a void that isn't filled by their spouse or -more accurately so that we don't go down the rabbit hole of codependence - the marriage itself. So the choice is to cheat because of 1) money and 2) children. 

Regarding the BS, it's my opinion that if the BS could be guaranteed 1) the same level of money after a divorce and 2) the same access to the kids that he/she had prior to the divorce, the BS would divorce in almost all cases. I believe R becomes a larger factor because the BS does not want to get punished financially and lose a family because of something he/she did not do (cheat).


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Regarding the BS, it's my opinion that if the BS could be guaranteed 1) the same level of money after a divorce and 2) the same access to the kids that he/she had prior to the divorce, the BS would divorce in almost all cases. I believe R becomes a larger factor because the BS does not want to get punished financially and lose a family because of something he/she did not do (cheat).


Especially in states with alimony. Divorce is no-fault, but alimony is too. So the betrayed can end up paying permanent alimony to the cheater! The cheater can divorce the betrayed even if the betrayed wants to R, and then the betrayed pays alimony for life!

For those who own businesses, divorce can mean the destruction of the business.

Once one gets past about age 45, the financial impacts can become permanent. There is no longer time to recover from some situations.


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