# wrong to expect intimacy on 20th anniversary?



## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

My wife has medical issues. She is tired and worn-out all the time because she has thyroid problems. We also have 4 teenage kids that she takes back and forth to school every day. She also has high anxiety and cant stand places with a lot of people... or simply riding in the car with me in any sort of traffic or conjested areas.

Yesterday was our 20th wedding anniversary. I bought her 2 dozen red roses, a nice pearl jewelry set... and then took her out to lunch instead of dinner because it was a school night and she had a church meeting

I then fixed dinner for the family and did a load of laundry so as to help lift any burden. She was laying in our bed fully clothed watching the TV most of the night. She does this every night. No, she was NOT waiting for me to come and lay by her. 

I came and sat in the chair next to the bed and tried to flirt with her. She yawned and rolled over away the opposite way and fell asleep. 

I thought about hopping in the sack... but I am week.. It's been 3 months since we've had sex and I'm a little horny. I know myself. I probably would have tried to wake here up and touch her boob or something... which would result in rejection. Since I hate rejection so bad I decided not to even sleep in the bed. So I slept in the den on a cot. Yes I was lonely but I didn't get rejected either! I didn't put myself in a place where I could get rejected again. 

It's not really orgasm that I'm after (though it would be nice). I just want a little affection... a cudle, a kiss, or something that says I'm cutting it as a husband. Some sort of a little something that says thanks for being a provider and handyman and father.

Am I being too needy? Am I a selfish jerk because I don't take in to account her medical issues? She said she doesn't feel well enough to got to marriage counseling especially when it sets off her high anxiety. Do I just continue masturbating once a week? How do I NOT put up with this without filing for divorce?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, the men will come in here with better advice than I have, but I just want to tell you you were not wrong to have expectations.

We will be married 20 years in May, and we want to do some kind of trip, or something special, to mark it.

Sorry things did not go as you hoped. Hope you get some good advice here soon. And then follow it, okay?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Medical issues make it tough to say whether your expectations were reasonable or not, but it doesn't seem like you got any recognition from her that it was your 20th anniversary. That seems cry wrong.

But you knew that already. So what are you going to do about it?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I'm sorry that you went to all that trouble for your anniversary only to find that you're wife was either unable (because of her health issues) or couldn't be bothered sharing some physical intimacy with you. That must be so hurtful...

Is your W in therapy for her anxiety issues? If not, perhaps this might be an idea? Also, maybe you should both go and discuss the management of her health problems with her doctor, because what you described shouldn't prohibit any form of intimacy between you.

You don't sound like a needy, selfish jerk to me. Frankly, I think you've been very caring and tolerant. But now is the time to find a solution, and I think you need to deal with this quite firmly.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I really feel for you, It is hard to judge, as like you say she does suffer with health issues.

I myself suffer with very bad anxiety, I have also had depression through the years on and off, I have been with my husband 10 years, although like i say have had it on and off, I have not had it as bad as i had it before i met him, I myself believe it is him that keeps it at bay as hes a bit of a joker, and a happy go lucky kind of guy.

The thing is although i know its very hard and anxiety is so dam horrible, and i know that it can take over your life and make things hard, I try myself not to neglect my husband, his needs and the needs of my children, and i do try to be the best wife i can be as he himself treats me so well.

So no in a way i do not think your being a selfish jerk, as i understand you have needs to.

From what you say your trying to be as understanding as possible, but understandably your feeling frustrated, as you too like i say have needs.

This is a tough one, and a sad situation. Have you spoke to your wife and explained to her how your feeling?.

From what you say your helping as much as possible with the chores to try and take some of the burden off her back, and i think its lovely what you did for your anniversary.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

That's the beginning of a tragic path Slyguy. Once a person decides solitude is better than rejection it will become the norm.

That's my normalcy right now. I advise against it if you can help it.

And intimacy (which is what you're after) didn't really have to end in shooting the load. You just wanted to be touched. Nothing wrong with that. Medical issues complicate things though so tread carefully.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I think a normal, mentally and emotionally healthy person would be concerned about their partner's needs, and not just roll over and go to sleep. I mean, at least acknowledge your patience and attention and thank you and show some concern for the effect her health issues (physical and mental) has on family and partnered life.

Two of my guy friends moved into their own bedroom years ago for the same reason you did. Rejection, rejection, rejection. You are not alone. They are both now separated/divorced and feeling much better about themselves, though I hope you can work things out with your wife as it sounds like you very much adore her. She's a fool!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

How long has she had this 'thyroid problem'? 

Ignoring the issue of coitus for now, I find behaviour like this inexcusable, health problem or no. Other than total body paralysis, I don't know of any health issue that prevents one from hugging or kissing their spouse.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

This really stuck out:

"I just want a little affection... a cuddle, a kiss, or something that says I'm cutting it as a husband. Some sort of a little something that says thanks for being a provider and handyman and father."

I hear you want to be connected with your wife... and it is understandable and acceptable for sex to be that connection...

But the actions you took, may have protected your heart/ego for the moment (last night), but they leave lingering effects for both you and your marriage.

First- you said if you got into bed with her you'd probably grab a boob or something....Unfortunately this could be taken as you objectifying your wife (meaning wanting sex to relieve your horniness as the primary focus vs wanting to connect with her).

Then- you chose to not even sleep in the same room. Which, protected you from being rejected by her because it was you who did the rejecting.

Have you tried to express what you said in the quote I cited above to your wife (communicating this away from the bedroom). Giving her a chance to understand you?

Or next time speak out your desire (expectations) ahead of time?

I'm sorry you had to be so alone on your anniversary.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> How long has she had this 'thyroid problem'?
> 
> Ignoring the issue of coitus for now, I find behaviour like this inexcusable, health problem or no. Other than total body paralysis, I don't know of any health issue that prevents one from hugging or kissing their spouse.


:iagree:

I've had a debilitating condition for several years, now, and I'm awaiting surgery (degenerative disk disease in my neck), but nothing stops me from enjoying being close to my SO. In fact, physical intimacy actually helps ease the pain


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

I lived this for years. She needs professional help or it is the beginning of the end. Medical and/or psychological help. Insist on it. You both should be striving for happiness.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So, she neglects you and in exchange you give her 2 dozen roses, do chores, buy her lunch and make dinner. She's probably thinking if she neglects you a few more months maybe you'll buy her a new car. You seem to be training her, and it's working. She doing exactly what you're reinforcing. If you want a different result, you have to take a different approach.


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## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

I don't think it takes much effort for your wife to give you what you want, and deserve. Come on, I mean even with a medical issue, there has to be some time during a 3 month course that she feels good enough for some intimacy no? I cant go much more than 3 days without climbing the walls let alone 3 months or I would be climbing someone elses walls. You should talk with her direct about this.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So, she neglects you and in exchange you give her 2 dozen roses, do chores, buy her lunch and make dinner. She's probably thinking if she neglects you a few more months maybe you'll buy her a new car. You seem to be training her, and it's working. She doing exactly what you're reinforcing. If you want a different result, you have to take a different approach.


I'm sorry but I totally have to agree with this. I think you have to have a very clear conversation about how it made you feel that you did all these things for her and she didn't return anything for you. I would further tell her form here on out giving needs to be on both end and you won't be going out of your way any longer unless she does the same

20 year anniversary is a huge milestone!!!! She couldn't even be affectionate for you? I'm not even married to the woman and I am highly offended for you. How are you not outraged?


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> If you want a different result, you have to take a different approach.


It was my 20th anniversary and I spoiled her a little and I like to see her happy. 
Yes I'd like a different result. What kid of different approach should I try?


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I missed the bit about hugs and Kisses, I agree with hope.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

SlyGuy said:


> It was my 20th anniversary and I spoiled her a little and I like to see her happy.
> Yes I'd like a different result. What kid of different approach should I try?


Do the 180. 



> This 180 list may help.
> --------------------------
> 
> 
> ...



This is based upon a cheating spouse who is neglecting the relationship. But it sounds like your wife is similar.

Since she is not providing any emotional support and it is hurting you, start to find your own emotional strength outside of her whims.

HOWEVER, roses =/= p*ssy.

If you have been neglectful for three months, an ass, take her for granted, or hound her CONSTANTLY for sex even when she is uncomfortable, you got a lot of prior issues to fix. If you are pushing her sexual boundaries past her comfort zone.

Tons of things which can totally put a woman off of sex. BUT, instead of having a conversation with you (she DIDN'T have a conversation, right?) she is 'rolling over'.

So save your efforts on the wife front and find some other happiness.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You tell your wife that the total lack of intimacy is unacceptable and that she had better do something about this 'thyroid problem' immediately or you will file for divorce. Seriously. 

Do you really want to live the rest of your life this way?

I am really curious how long she has had this medical issue, and if you truly accept it as the real problem. Because I do not think it is.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

JCD said:


> If you have been neglectful for three months, an ass, take her for granted, or hound her CONSTANTLY for sex even when she is uncomfortable, you got a lot of prior issues to fix. If you are pushing her sexual boundaries past her comfort zone.
> 
> Tons of things which can totally put a woman off of sex. BUT, instead of having a conversation with you (she DIDN'T have a conversation, right?) she is 'rolling over'.
> 
> So save your efforts on the wife front and find some other happiness.


yep the did the 180 years ago... still doing it to this day.
nope.. never been neglectful or hound for sex. I've been very patient. Once a week i try to spoon/cuddle in bed but pull away when I can tell she hates it. (she turns to a stone cold statue and has zero reciprocation) Thanks for the suggestion though.... I appreciate it.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> You tell your wife that the total lack of intimacy is unacceptable and that she had better do something about this 'thyroid problem' immediately or you will file for divorce. Seriously.
> 
> Do you really want to live the rest of your life this way?
> 
> I am really curious how long she has had this medical issue, and if you truly accept it as the real problem. Because I do not think it is.


She is on medication for her thyroid problem. We believe she's had this problem for many years but didn't get diagnosed till a year ago. And yes, I don't think that's the problem w/her lack of intimacy. I just think shes pissed at me for some reason or another... but she won't tell me why when I ask. When I do ask she gets all huffy and says she just needs to get better.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If she is still using her condition as an excuse, tell her to go to the dr because she needs her meds adjusted. Is it low thyroid hormone? Because the dosage needs to be adjusted every once in a while. She should be on top of this!

So how much longer do you plan to keep being patient?? TAKE A STAND here. DO something. Don't just keep being a doormouse.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

She is on top of it w/the doctor. The only thing left to do is divorce her. I'm almost ready but not quite. What if I left her and my 4 awesome children and my big beautiful house only to find out it really was a medical issue after all? and that she fixed it... and that some other dude married her and now has sex with her every night in my bed and is tucking my little girl in to bed at night and driving my son to baseball practice. Suddenly the longing for sex doesn't seem worth it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You _just_ said that you don't believe her thyroid issues are the real problem. Dude, which is it??

Get some marriage building books. Go to MC. Go to her dr with her. But do it all after you tell her that you are on the verge of divorce and all that's holding you back are the kids. TELL her what she's doing to you and give her one last chance then. But make it CRYSTAL CLEAR what will happen if things do not change for the better within the next six months. and then DO it.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> You _just_ said that you don't believe her thyroid issues are the real problem. Dude, which is it??
> 
> Get some marriage building books. Go to MC. Go to her dr with her. But do it all after you tell her that you are on the verge of divorce and all that's holding you back are the kids. TELL her what she's doing to you and give her one last chance then. But make it CRYSTAL CLEAR what will happen if things do not change for the better within the next six months. and then DO it.


You speak as if my wife is a normal woman. She's sick both physically and mentally. And for this reason divorce ultimatums aren't in my immediate plans. I don't believe this will scare her in to being well again or being sexually proactive. This might work just fine for your wife but not mine. 
I'm still in love with my wife. She's awesome !... i'm just a little frustrated.

I already have exit plans in place if need be...so don't think that I'm just sitting here being crapped on and that I haven't thought things over. Just because I haven't posted my exact plans doesn't mean I don't have any. It's just going to suck soooo bad. You don't even know. Did you re-read my last post?


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

So SlyGuy, you're just here to vent? 

Okidoki...go about your business...Good Luck


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I have no idea why you even posted then, if all you're going to do is make excuses for your wife to just stay the way she is. Your posts contradict themselves from one to the next.

You're allowing her to do nothing. If she's sick, she should be falling over backwards to make herself better. Right now she's using being sick as an excuse, and you're letting her. As long as that continues, nothing's going to change. Are you saying that you can't work on your marriage with her because she says she's sick? It sounds like this has been going on for years and I guess I don't understand why anyone would put up with this for years and just do nothing about it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Have you told your wife directly that the marriage can't continue like this, so if she is indeed pissed off now is the time to spill it? Then if she refuses her silence will tell you she doesn't want the marriage.
What you're describing is the extreme behavior of someone that can't stand you. How do you get along outside the bedroom?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Slyguy is looking for a pat on the head and sympathy for his situation. Not looking to fix it at this point. More fun to play the martyr. I should know, I've been there, done that. 

Martyrdom not all it's cracked up to be, though. At the end of the day, nobody really cares about or recognizes your sacrifices. Not even your kids, really. If you want condolences, then you have mine. Your situation is no fun.

If you want change, you have to move out of your comfort zone and take action. The board will be ready to help when you reach that point. It's your life. Live it as you best see fit.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

cons said:


> So SlyGuy, you're just here just to vent?


 no i questioned if sex on anniversary is expected... and yes I did a little venting also I suppose



Hope1964 said:


> I have no idea why you even posted then, if all you're going to do is make excuses for your wife to just stay the way she is. Your posts contradict themselves from one to the next.


 didn't realize I was making up excuses. Just thought I was answering questions... I'll have to re-read my posts and look for the contradictions.. as none were intended.



Hope1964 said:


> You're allowing her to do nothing. If she's sick, she should be falling over backwards to make herself better.


 why do you think she's doing nothing? did I tell you she was doing nothing? why would she fall over backwards?



Hope1964 said:


> Right now she's using being sick as an excuse, and you're letting her


 this is your assumption. And yes I'm begining to suspect a little bit also. But you're not here to really know how sick she is. So you can't know without me telling you.


Hope1964 said:


> As long as that continues, nothing's going to change. Are you saying that you can't work on your marriage with her because she says she's sick?


 yes 


Hope1964 said:


> anyone would put up with this for years and just do nothing about it.


 I've done many many things about it. Why do you think I've done nothing? by this do you mean give her a divorce ultimatum?



lifeistooshort said:


> Have you told your wife directly that the marriage can't continue like this


 wouldn't that be the equivalent of me telling her that I don't love her because of her ailments? 


lifeistooshort said:


> What you're describing is the extreme behavior of someone that can't stand you


 I didn't look at it that way before.. .but geez you're totally right !


lifeistooshort said:


> How do you get along outside the bedroom?


 we get along great & don't fight very often



MarriedTex said:


> Slyguy is looking for a pat on the head and sympathy for his situation. Not looking to fix it at this point.


 no not exactly... lol



MarriedTex said:


> At the end of the day, nobody really cares about or recognizes your sacrifices. Not even your kids, really. If you want condolences, then you have mine. Your situation is no fun.


 thanks


MarriedTex said:


> If you want change, you have to move out of your comfort zone and take action. The board will be ready to help when you reach that point. It's your life. Live it as you best see fit.


 the only action I haven't taken that has been mentioned in this thread so far is the "divorce ultimatum". Are there any other ideas besides this one?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The 180. 

And please don't say you have already been doing it. If you think what you're doing is the 180, you're simply wrong. The 180 does not include 2 dozen roses. Go back and read the list again. 

And sadly, yes you may have to risk losing your marriage to save it.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Don't know much about thyroid problems, but she has energy to shuttle kids all day and go to church meetings etc. I would think she could pretend to find you desirable for 15 or 20 minutes once a week. Hope I don't offend anyone, but that's just how I feel.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sorry Slyguy this doesn't sound like a marriage to me. She is sick I get that but doesn't sound like she is doing anything at all for you. Maybe your afraid you'll come off as the bad guy , because she is sick,if you divorce her? 

Whatever the case may be you only get so much time on earth. Are you sure you want to spend the rest of your days like this? I sincerely doubt this will change at all. And if it does it will be because you leave her and maybe she will have that wake up call moment on how she has been treating you. Either way if you stay or go good luck

Wolf


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You do not go and give her roses, a fancy dinner, massages, gifts etc in the 180.

You are trying to buy some sex. It didn't work. She saw right through this.

Here is the 180.

Wake up. Make coffee and breakfast. She comes downstairs. Give her a card "Happy 20th".

Sign the card: Your husband with full name (in case she forgot either of these facts)

Then you disinterestedly ask what she is doing with her day. Then you TELL her what YOU are doing with your day.

If she acts nonplussed at the little that is happening, look puzzled but say nothing.

If she continues say "I had already made plans. What did YOU plan for our anniversary? If I like it, I'll change MY plans."

Because we all know she planned nothing and did nothing. Really, what did she get YOU? You probably spent $500 for her to roll over and go to bed while YOU got what? A card?

Who is the stupid one here?

God FORBID she had to change a church meeting on her *20h anniversary!* 

But you just accept this.

Read Married Man's Sex Life Primer. Now. Don't wait. NOW.

Make plans for your life EVERY DAY. Your time as chauffer and maid are pretty much done. Do what is necessary to maintain the house and THAT'S IT. No special meals. No driving her to places she needs to go unless she schedules it WAY in advance of your plans. Treat her in all ways, shapes and forms as a room mate; an ANNOYING room mate. One you are happy to see the back of.

You've asked why she's mad. You've done your duty on that front. If she isn't forthcoming, tough noogies on her.

I am not expecting you to sack up. I am expecting you to continue just like you are. Sure she's sick. A sick person can kiss. A sick person can cuddle.

Because let me tell you...if I were sick, the very LAST thing I'd want to so would be to pi$$ off my caregiver. And yet she feels quite comfortable and safe to do so. Why do you think that is?

She needs cause to STRONGLY reassess that situation.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Anniversary sex, Birthday sex, Valentines sex? All a distant memory. I think at one time it happened like clockwork..................I think. This year I was out of town for Valentines Day for the first time ever. I do not think I will be participating in that BS ever again.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

OP,

Having gone through prolonged periods where my wife’s health (endometriosis, gale bladder, thyroid & kidney problems) meant that PIV was out of the question I know that it is frustrating but you MUST be open and honest with your wife (and yourself) about you desires and find other ways to share intimacy and passion.

Failure to address this issue will cause you to just die a little more each day, love can turn to resentment, resentment can turn to hate.

Do something about your situation NOW the longer you leave it the harder it will be and the lower the chances of success.


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## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

SlyGuy said:


> Once a week i try to spoon/cuddle in bed but pull away when I can tell she hates it. (she turns to a stone cold statue and has zero reciprocation) Thanks for the suggestion though.... I appreciate it.


I would start here. 

As long as you are not angling for sex, and make sure she knows this too (by either saying, "Hey do you mind if we snuggle up for a bit", or by being consistent, etc) then this is really not an acceptable behavior, and is a perfect starting point to ask "Why".

Why don't you want me next to you?
Why don't you want to be close?
Is there something wrong with wanting to be close to my wife?
etc.

These are questions that can't just be shrugged off. Not even medical can be blamed. This is an easy line to point to as inexcusable. She might even have a good answer. Good luck.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Marriage involves a sexual monopoly. She requires it (and offers it) to you, but as the person(s) DEMANDING a monopoly, it is also incumbent on BOTH (not you, BOTH) of you to be willing to provide this service to the other. You (generic) dont' get to arbitrarily decided for another person that their sex life ended because YOU (generic) want it to.

But bad stuff happens. People sometimes can't perform. One needs understanding. However, here is a question which gets to the heart of the matter.

What is the last unsolicited nice thing she did for you? A set of flowers? A lovey dovey card. A letter. A favorite meal made with love baked right in.

How long has it been since she showed this sort of effort outside of physical intimacy?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

shes not in love with you.

shes in love with the life style you provide for her.

when you love someone you don't treat them the way your wife treats you.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Maybe your afraid you'll come off as the bad guy , because she is sick,if you divorce her?


 yes I do think about this affecting my kids and the awesome people on her side of the family that I'm friends with.



Wolf1974 said:


> Whatever the case may be you only get so much time on earth. Are you sure you want to spend the rest of your days like this?


 I needed to hear this...awesome thought.. thank you very much



Wiltshireman said:


> Failure to address this issue will cause you to just die a little more each day, love can turn to resentment, resentment can turn to hate.


 I have addressed the issue. And yes the resentment is starting to build



MrAvg said:


> You need to have a strong talk with your wife about emotional needs as well as sex.


 I have and she gets pissed and tells me I don't get it. She says she cant focus on us until she gets better and how she's trying to get better. She told me to be patient while she works on herself.



JerryB said:


> I would start here.
> 
> As long as you are not angling for sex, and make sure she knows this too (by either saying, "Hey do you mind if we snuggle up for a bit", or by being consistent, etc) then this is really not an acceptable behavior, and is a perfect starting point to ask "Why".
> 
> ...


 this !! is the type of advice i'm looking for on this forum. Thanks very much



JCD said:


> What is the last unsolicited nice thing she did for you? A set of flowers? A lovey dovey card. A letter. A favorite meal made with love baked right in.
> 
> How long has it been since she showed this sort of effort outside of physical intimacy?


she made me breakfast and brought it down to my office yesterday. She went to the gas station and brought me home my favorite drink this morning. She washed folded all my underwear & socks last night.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

ok guys here's what I have planned out. 

I have an appointment next week to talk with a therapist who specializes in helping marriages deal with a high anxiety spouse. 
*I'm going to try out his suggestions and listen to his advice for 60days. 
*If I don't see serious traction then I'm then going to get my financial affairs in order and take her name off ownership of the company we started (whereas she doesnt lift a finger and I do everything) and put my 18yr old daughters name as the other partner. 
*I'm then going to talk to a divorce attorney to see how moving out might affect custody decisions in my state. (aka abandonment) 
*Then I will move out if the attorney says it's in my best interest.
*I'll tell each of my children why their dad won't be staying at the house anymore. That Mom doesnt love Dad anymore and that I'm going to give their mother some "space"
*Then prepare myself for a nasty bad talk with my wife and hope she'll listen to me instead of walk out of the room mid-conversation like she has in the past. She will freak out because of the kids. She is so tied to them it makes me sick. She knows how awesome of father I am and how much they adore me. I need her to freak out. (I need a personal policy with some teeth in it) 
*I will tell her I'm moving out for the entire 6months of my rental contract. 
*During that time she will need to consult with two people: a psychotherapist/shrink and a marriage counselor shortly thereafter. 
*If not the divorce papers will be officially filed and I'll be free to find a new woman. A woman who respects and loves her husband. The type of woman all my friends seem to have


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

That is a good plan. Please keep us updated. Frankly, I didn't think you had it in you. Good show.


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

SlyGuy said:


> *If not the divorce papers will be officially filed and I'll be free to find a new woman. A woman who respects and loves her husband. The type of woman all my friends seem to have


Has kids, has a medical condition, lazy, unaffectionate and has no sex drive. I’m sure the men will be beating down the door after you leave.
Would it have freaking killed her to show affection and appreciation for the good thing she had!
It boggles the mind.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

SlyGuy said:


> ok guys here's what I have planned out.
> 
> I have an appointment next week to talk with a therapist who specializes in helping marriages deal with a high anxiety spouse.
> *I'm going to try out his suggestions and listen to his advice for 60days.
> ...




*NO!*

This is a HORRIBLE plan in some ways.

Let me outline them.


1) The counselor is good. But it is hard to 'psychoanalyze/treat' someone when they don't know it is happening. She has to WANT to change. So you are hiding what you are hoping to happen.

Alternative: Tell her that you are worried about the state of your marriage and you implore her to go to marriage counseling. You will go alone if you must, so the money will be spent, but it would be better for both of you to go. 

Then GO...and implement their advice if it is good advice. 

2) I am not sure that you can legally shaft your wife like this. Talk to an attorney.

3) Nothing wrong with getting your options from a divorce attorney.

4) Telling kids: ARE YOU FRIGGING KIDDING ME? In one fell swoop, you are a) ambushing your wife, b) painting your wife as an evil villain to the kids, and c) abandoning her WITHOUT talking to her first.

Maybe this seems like shock therapy to you, but you just fired a tactical nuke into her country and now want to say 'hey...let's talk about a peace treaty.' She...will...be FURIOUS! This will pretty much scuttle any hope of Reconciliation in my opinion.


Alternate: see below.

5) You need to set the stage her for the talk BEFORE the kids.

You have this talk FIRST. One, you tell her exactly what you see as the problem. You talk about the unfairness of keeping what made her mad secret. You talk about going to a medical doctor and/or marriage counselor.

You give her a chance to come. Call it a month or two. Make good changes in yourself (180)

If she doesn't change her behavior, then you see her first and lay down one of your divorce attorney's cards. "I put down a $XXX retainer. I am done fooling around. You think I'm not serious. I am in the midst of apartment hunting. You have three days to think about what is REALLY WRONG with you, with us and with me." Money talks, BS walks. That retainer is your opening ante for how serious you are.

Then expect a sh*tstorm of a talk. 

But here is the important thing: LISTEN! If you think her reasons and issues with you are BS, guess what bunky, it isn't BS to HER! But NOW you have a chance to actually start clearing the air and get a rebuttal. Don't tell her she's stupid. Don't tell her she's wrong. Tell her you don't agree and even have ANOTHER talk after you've had time to think about what was said.

You'll need about 5 more such conversations before things start cracking lose. Take breaks is someone gets too emotionally devastated so they can cool down.

I agree she needs a bucket of cold water in the face. However, I do NOT advocate leaving large sharp ice chunks in the bucket when you DO dash it in her face...however gratifying it may feel.


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

JCD I just pm'd you
so I don't have thousands of people reading my huge long reply to your post
thanks


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## justfabulous (Feb 9, 2014)

Just another perspective... I suffered with serious thyroid problems for a number of years, and I know what its like to feel so incredibly exhausted all the time that when you get home all you can do is lie down and want to be left alone. Sitting up, or reaching to answer the phone on a nearby nightstand can feel like more than you are physically capable of. Difficult thyroid conditions can make you feel like every single cell in your body is being starved of energy - you literally can almost feel it on a cellular level. I almost cant put into words this very draining form of fatigue. Thyroid problems can also be the cause of anxiety and/or depression. If that is the cause, going to therapy as someone suggested for the anxiety issues won't help - it is all biochemical. Until the endocrine system starts functioning right, the anxiety will remain an issue (IF indeed its caused by the thyroid condition). Unfortunately, there is a lot that mainstream doctors and endos really dont know or understand about thyroid issues, so treating them, and often even really understanding what is going on can be a problem. A good naturopathic doctor might be a smart idea (was a big part of getting me healthy again - and I AM healthy, have been for a solid 10 years now!!!). So it IS entirely possible with a thyroid disorder to truly be so fatigued and exhausted that sharing a few minutes of intimacy is literally beyond what she is capable of. Not saying this is really the case for her, 'cuz I clearly don't have enough info, merely that it is not out of the question at all. Could also be that she's worried that a little snuggling will lead to you wanting more - so she feels she needs to close off to the snuggling because she is truly not capable of more due to the condition. Please understand that this is beyond any form of 'tiredness' or lack of energy that any healthy person has every experienced. Sometimes, the exhaustion can be so extreme that you dont even have the energy to have an intelligent conversation. I'm not kidding. Which could be why your attempts to discuss it with her have not gone well. Thyroid problems really can affect the brain's ability to think, communicate, etc - referred to as "brain fog". Trying to think, or string a simple sentence together can be exhausting. The mind can feel very clouded making it hard to intelligently articulate. Just playing devils advocate here in CASE that is truly what she is going through.

However, all that being said, if she's got energy for other things, like shuttling the kids around all day, going to church meetings in the evening.... then I'm not sure that she is indeed suffering THAT level of thyroid related fatigue. When its at that level, she should be crashing at about 2pm in the afternoon (typical thyroid crash pattern), whereby she literally can not stay awake in the early afternoon, and needs to sleep for a couple of hours during the afternoon every day. You would be observing considerable physical weakness, she'd becoming very winded and exhausted going up a simple flight of stairs in the home... If you're not seeing that kind of stuff, then that's a different matter. 

When I had my thyroid problem, my husband never felt I was rejecting him, because it was painfully obvious to him how sick i was ALL the time, all day long, every day. There was no question about that. He also understood it better than a lot of spouses might, because about a year earlier he had temporarily suffered from a thyroid nodule as a result of arsenic exposure during a construction project - so he had actually experienced the debilitating fatigue I was going through, and he knew it had left him with no energy to be intimate (and he's normally a guy with a LOT of energy for that, no matter what!). So I think that really helped him to understand it all, 'cuz for a short time, he's lived it himself.

Anyway, I will also say that despite how ill the thyroid condition had made me back then, it did not impact me from continually expressing my appreciation, affection and love to him, though we were not intimate very often during that time because - it was just not possible for me. I certainly would not have made plans to go to a meeting on the evening of our anniversary. *If* I felt well enough to go anywhere on our anniversary during those times, I would have wanted it to be with him.

So, again, I don't know whether your wife really IS as sick as all that, just saying this is what thyroid issues CAN do to a person. If she's just using it as an excuse while she's got the energy to do the stuff she wants to do, then that's a whole other matter and I agree, you owe yourself better than that - life is short, LIVE it.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

This is an important perspective. Thank you.

Shouldn't she be seeking a better blend of medication to try and alleviate these symptoms?


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## SlyGuy (Jan 14, 2014)

justfabulous said:


> Just another perspective... I suffered with serious thyroid problems for a number of years, and I know what its like to feel so incredibly exhausted all the time that when you get home all you can do is lie down and want to be left alone. Sitting up, or reaching to answer the phone on a nearby nightstand can feel like more than you are physically capable of. Difficult thyroid conditions can make you feel like every single cell in your body is being starved of energy - you literally can almost feel it on a cellular level. I almost cant put into words this very draining form of fatigue. Thyroid problems can also be the cause of anxiety and/or depression. If that is the cause, going to therapy as someone suggested for the anxiety issues won't help - it is all biochemical. Until the endocrine system starts functioning right, the anxiety will remain an issue (IF indeed its caused by the thyroid condition). Unfortunately, there is a lot that mainstream doctors and endos really dont know or understand about thyroid issues, so treating them, and often even really understanding what is going on can be a problem. A good naturopathic doctor might be a smart idea (was a big part of getting me healthy again - and I AM healthy, have been for a solid 10 years now!!!). So it IS entirely possible with a thyroid disorder to truly be so fatigued and exhausted that sharing a few minutes of intimacy is literally beyond what she is capable of. Not saying this is really the case for her, 'cuz I clearly don't have enough info, merely that it is not out of the question at all. Could also be that she's worried that a little snuggling will lead to you wanting more - so she feels she needs to close off to the snuggling because she is truly not capable of more due to the condition. Please understand that this is beyond any form of 'tiredness' or lack of energy that any healthy person has every experienced. Sometimes, the exhaustion can be so extreme that you dont even have the energy to have an intelligent conversation. I'm not kidding. Which could be why your attempts to discuss it with her have not gone well. Thyroid problems really can affect the brain's ability to think, communicate, etc - referred to as "brain fog". Trying to think, or string a simple sentence together can be exhausting. The mind can feel very clouded making it hard to intelligently articulate. Just playing devils advocate here in CASE that is truly what she is going through.
> 
> However, all that being said, if she's got energy for other things, like shuttling the kids around all day, going to church meetings in the evening.... then I'm not sure that she is indeed suffering THAT level of thyroid related fatigue. When its at that level, she should be crashing at about 2pm in the afternoon (typical thyroid crash pattern), whereby she literally can not stay awake in the early afternoon, and needs to sleep for a couple of hours during the afternoon every day. You would be observing considerable physical weakness, she'd becoming very winded and exhausted going up a simple flight of stairs in the home... If you're not seeing that kind of stuff, then that's a different matter.
> 
> ...


thanks for this awesome post. You've described some of the exact things I'm seeing which coincides with why she's addicted to pepsi max... as she says it gives her energy to function every day. It's not quit to the level you describe as she does have energy to climb stairs etc.. the problem I'm experiencing is I don't really know if she really hates me or not. I suspect she does though as there is no indicator that she wants to be my wife any longer. 
This is why I'm stuck where I am. I appreciate all the constructive posts on this thread. This is the reason I come to this board


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SlyGuy said:


> thanks for this awesome post. You've described some of the exact things I'm seeing which coincides with why she's addicted to pepsi max... as she says it gives her energy to function every day. It's not quit to the level you describe as she does have energy to climb stairs etc.. the problem I'm experiencing is I don't really know if she really hates me or not. I suspect she does though as there is no indicator that she wants to be my wife any longer.
> This is why I'm *stuck* where I am. I appreciate all the constructive posts on this thread. This is the reason I come to this board


You are stuck only by choice my friend. Ask yourself this. When your 30th anniversary roles around and nothing has changed how will you feel about it then. 10 more years of a loving and sexless marriage later? What if it finally causes you to say no more and you leave. Look at all the additional life wasted. It's your life and you can do with it what you will. My guess, and this is just my guess, is either if you left her or started the process you would see her starting to take her health a lot more seriously. Funny how those things work.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I agree with Wolf. You choose to be stuck. You need to sit your wife down, hold her hands and look her in the eyes and tell her that you truly miss intimacy - both physical in the form of hugs, kisses, cuddling, hand-holding and sex as well as the emotional closeness you once had. Ask if she wants to stay in the marriage and if she does, insist that she gets a second and third opinion and see specialists to get to the bottom of the thyroid issue as JustFabulous suggests. Tell her you two might as well be roommates and you won't live the next 20 years like this. Then listen to what she *says*. Then start the 180 and see what she *does*. She will either a) say she wants to stay together and show it by trying to solve the problems, b) say she wants out, or c) say she wants to stay but does nothing about it.

If you see anything besides a) it's time to go.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

SlyGuy said:


> My wife has medical issues. She is tired and worn-out all the time because she has thyroid problems. We also have 4 teenage kids that she takes back and forth to school every day. She also has high anxiety and cant stand places with a lot of people... or simply riding in the car with me in any sort of traffic or conjested areas.
> 
> Yesterday was our 20th wedding anniversary. I bought her 2 dozen red roses, a nice pearl jewelry set... and then took her out to lunch instead of dinner because it was a school night and she had a church meeting
> 
> ...


Your first step should be admitting that you want that orgasm.


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## JerryB (Feb 13, 2014)

Kobo said:


> Your first step should be admitting that you want that orgasm.


Kobo, *I* admit that I want that orgasm (from my wife).
So now what?


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