# Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute



## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Here is an article I saw recently. Here are some quotes from two working girls interviewed for the article:



> Abella is a Calgary mother. She has a young son. And she’s a sex worker – by choice.
> 
> After our phone call, she makes sure I jot down “not a victim.”
> 
> ...


What she says matches my experiences in interviewing other sex workers. Just thought I'd leave this here for discussion.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*

Not really the best place to discuss this.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



> “Prostitution doesn’t have anything to do with organized crime or trafficking.”She’s stayed with the job because she enjoys its flexibility. “At one point it was supposed to be a stepping stone, and now I couldn’t imagine different. I love it.”


Now that the HA know her name and locale, they will be coming to make an irrefusable offer of their protection and superior management skills, or else forcefully influence her to leave their jurisdiction.

To me that is the real problem, not that sex, or sex for a fee is demeaning, but that all the prohibitive laws simply do is make it too profitable for organized criminals. That particular prostitute hasn't been exposed to that element, yet... but the majority of sex workers ARE stuck in the criminal aspects of the lifestyle.

I find it extremely ideologically flawed that society values women so highly for their physical beauty and sexual allure, but as soon as a women wants to be able to monetize her appreciable value in a way she sees fit society condemns her as immoral for doing so. Yet we enthusiastically support capitalism of the weapons industry, flock to the big box stores that are filled with goods manufactured in deplorable factories etc. etc.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



MSP said:


> Here is an article I saw recently. Here are some quotes from two working girls interviewed for the article:
> 
> 
> 
> What she says matches my experiences in interviewing other sex workers. Just thought I'd leave this here for discussion.


I read an article that said the same thing on Jezebel.com earlier this year.

But basically , like lon said, one of the pasic problem the problem with sex work is people's hypocritical attitude towards the workers and pimping.

In Costa Rica for example , sex work is legal and most girls work for themselves. Pimping or selling girls for sex, is illegal and crries a heavy sentence.
Street walking [ prostitutes seeking clients on the streets] is also a criminal offence , so most prostitutes work out of casinos and hotels.

Those strippers and sex workers I knew in the past basically said they liked the power it gave them over a man's wallet and over their sexuality.
However, I don't know if that was a politically correct response , how they felt at that time , or a lie to hide an ugly truth.

The reality is , a person is supposed to be able to do whatever they want with their sexuality , but the laws say they can't.

However, I strongly feel that any form of pimping is slavery.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



MSP said:


> Here is an article I saw recently. Here are some quotes from two working girls interviewed for the article:
> 
> 
> 
> What she says matches my experiences in interviewing other sex workers. Just thought I'd leave this here for discussion.


They're probably lying to keep from crying.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*

Why would you post this in the ladies lounge of a marriage forum???????????????????????????????????????


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



Caribbean Man said:


> ...However, I strongly feel that any form of pimping is slavery.


I think any "pimp" who treats someone as their own property is despicable. But what if it were a self-employed sex worker that merely wanted to outsource some parts of her business, such as promotion or payroll?

I think the work "pimp" implies the negative connotation of that...role. But would you find a prostitute that hires an "agent" is still considered slavery?

(ps I am by no means trying to water down the seriousness of exploitation or sexual abuse here, just trying to establish at what point an ethical line needs to be drawn)

(pps and yeah I find it weird that this thread is posted in the ladies lounge, should probably be in politics forum - but personally I don't ever search threads by forum topic, I look at all "new" threads and simply read the ones with interesting sounding titles - this is the reason I often find myself in the section of TAM in case you ladies are wondering).


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



Lon said:


> I don't ever search threads by forum topic, I look at all "new" threads and simply read the ones with interesting sounding titles - this is the reason I often find myself in the section of TAM in case you ladies are wondering).


I do the same thing, but when someone posts a thread they have to choose which section to put it in. I find it very weird that anyone would think this topic is even remotely appropriate to be in the ladies lounge, or on a marriage board at all.


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## ASummersDay (Mar 4, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Why would you post this in the ladies lounge of a marriage forum???????????????????????????????????????


Because they have an agenda. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*

I think that this is a very individual thing. 

Most women don't do sex work (prostitution) because they do not see it in the same light, nothing wrong with that.

Plus we know a few things about how society works:

1) Few men will marry, or have a serious relationship with a current or ex prostitute.

2) If a time comes that a prostitute cannot do this any more.. there are limitations on the jobs she can get if she tells the truth. And lying on a job application can get ya fired.

3) There is an inherent danger in being a prostitute as some men think it's just fine to physically abuse and kill prostitutes. 

3) There comes a time in every prostitute's life where she cannot do sex work any more because her clientele base dries up.. most men do not want sex with old women.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

*re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*

I've had exactly the same pejorative comments leveled at me for posing topless - how degrading it was, how exploited I was, how I really was miserable inside instead of happy about it, how I must have low self esteem... 

The first time I heard those kinds of things it made me extremely angry for how arrogant someone must be to claim knowing me better than I know myself. "There, there, little girl - when you are older you will understand (or regret, or whatever).

The condescension just screams at you. But it became clear to me eventually that people were telling me about what kind of person THEY were, not what kind of person I was. Here they were saying the most derogatory, insulting things about me while at the same time claiming it was all out of their deep abiding care for my welfare. They weren't heaping scorn on me - why, they were RESCUING me.

I know EXACTLY how this woman in the OP feels. And I have learned to watch for bad people. Not meaning robbers or vandals - but people who try to take away your humanity, your dignity, always in the name of some noble thing, like most especially my own name. 

Just think for a moment if you came home looking forward to a nice glass of wine, pizza, and a romance novel. But instead you are met by the "comportment police" who say no - you don't really want that. You _can't_ want that. You're just saying that instead of crying about what you really want, which is a glass of prune juice, a head of cabbage, and a book on diesel mechanics.

Because after all, prune juice and cabbage are healthier and diesel mechanics can help you fix a bulldozer whereas a romance novel is a waste of time. And indeed, forcing you to do all those things will be physically healthier and perhaps even get a job at NC Co. 

Even if the comportment police are _right_ in some respects about what they say, the most important offense they commit is denying you the same rights every other human has. 

THAT is what's degrading.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Happyfamily said:


> I've had exactly the same pejorative comments leveled at me for posing topless - how degrading it was, how exploited I was, how I really was miserable inside instead of happy about it, how I must have low self esteem...
> 
> The first time I heard those kinds of things it made me extremely angry for how arrogant someone must be to claim knowing me better than I know myself. "There, there, little girl - when you are older you will understand (or regret, or whatever).
> 
> ...


:iagree:

We are too quick to pass judgement to other people, even in the interest of helping others. The condescension is forever lurking right around the corner, waiting for a chance to leap out at a victim in the name of "helping them", for no other reason than to impose our own supposed "moral superiority" upon others. 

Upper tier prostitution, hiding in disguise of escorts, while illegal in North America, in general is a fairly well self-regulated industry, much reminds me of the "Old Town" from the movie Sin City. The whole system is rather fascinating (in an academic sense) - it is the result of a evolutionary war that creates equilibrium between the law enforcement, the clients, and the prostitutes. Clients are looking to maximize their util of their money through review boards, prostitutes are finding new ways of ensuring their safety through whitelists and background checks, and law enforcements selectively cracking down on prostitution. I feel this is a system that is meeting the demands of all party concerned. I doubtlessly believe that the participants within this sect of prostituion feel empowered and as sex professionals.

The really sad cases, however, are the street walkers - people driven into prostitution through desperation for drugs, mental sickness, etc. I also highly doubt this type of prostitutes will feel "empowered" by their employment at any given day. However the root cause of this problem is not prostitution per se, rather something else thats more fundamental. These people are the same class as homeless, and as a society they deserve our pity and help.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

There are those that choose this lifestyle and are okay with that, there are some that may need rescuing... I read an article a long while back about a phone sex worker who was a SAH soccer mom. She claimed to love her job because of the high salary, flexibility, ability to work from home for very minimal work. I believed her.

Personally *I* couldn't do that line of work. *I* would feel degraded. However, my choices are my own, my views are my own and I recognize others may not share them. Who am I to say that deep down, that mom feels degraded? I don't have a microscope into her soul.

Any controversial subject is going to bring - well, uh...controversy and differing views and prostitution is no different.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

rubpy3 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Upper tier prostitution, hiding in disguise of escorts, while illegal in North America, in general is a fairly well self-regulated industry,


My problem is that consumers of these services cannot know this. I heard a new report of escort slaves who are kept in line with the torture of their friends. One woman kept out of business for a few days while tortured and healed is just business to them. These women are brought to big conferences, sporting events like the NFL and Olympics and service high rollers. They live in constant fear.

They cannot go to the law. They certainly are not going to tell the john that they are abused. 

So while I have no problem with a person intentionally selling sex or their body of their own free will in the context of safety, how would anyone KNOW?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> She lists *the positives*: overcoming body image issues, *being her own boss, business skills and learning about a variety of topics through clients.
> *
> “It is a very empowering industry. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been.”


Maybe this is more about being empowered due to being self-employed that what service is actually being sold.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



NextTimeAround said:


> Maybe this is more about being empowered due to being self-employed that what service is actually being sold.


Yes, being able to be in control of the assets they possess and use them for their own benefit rather than being exploited for them with no fair return.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

rubpy3 said:


> Upper tier prostitution, hiding in disguise of escorts,


You will notice that in discussions about prostitution the "comportment police" never talk about this. There are examples occasionally in the press with girls making more than surgeons. Another example is the professional mistress. 

But even in these examples they can't help themselves in trying to get it backwards by shaming the girls somehow. For example, there was an Olympic athlete who was making scads of money being an escort, and eventually she was outed.

So the fact society wrongly shames women who do this is then used against her. What is wrong is people shaming her. This is important to me personally because I have long observed how the Olympics were so glorified because the athletes_ did not make money_. 

This is where the envy comes in: people are okay with us working full time at a sport for years upon years, but were we to make so much as a dime at it... revocation of Olympic medals. Disgrace. That has changed now, but only because the Eastern Block countries were paying their athletes as full time professionals and it was absurd to see the hypocrisy.

But nevertheless if an Olympic athlete cashes in on all their hard work to be an escort - shame on her. 




> The really sad cases, however, are the street walkers - people driven into prostitution through desperation for drugs, mental sickness, etc. I also highly doubt this type of prostitutes will feel "empowered" by their employment at any given day. However the root cause of this problem is not prostitution per se, rather something else thats more fundamental. These people are the same class as homeless, and as a society they deserve our pity and help.


That's always where the comportment police go: straight to the bottom, and with the fallacy of drawing the false conclusion.

Prostitution is not the cause of mental illness nor the cause of drug use. The most important class of drug abuse, far and away, is prescription drug abuse. But the big money power pharmaceutical companies and their crony politicians don't want to touch this problem.

The people who talk about this class of women are just using them as objects to attain their own ends. They don't do anything to help them. Arresting them is hardly a help. Legalizing the trade would offer a lot more safety than what they face on the streets. 

It is very clear to me that a lot of women do not want their men to have a prostitution option. If you can run down to a red light district and get a great blow job for fifty bucks, fifteen minutes tops from the time you exit your car to the time you get back in again - this is an enormous threat to a woman's sexual power over her man. Unless she can give better blow jobs than the competition. I can, and I do. I like how little effort it takes and yet he is going to butter me up for days because of it. 

Preachers too. If a blow job is not a sin, where are the men going to be on Sunday morning? In church putting their cash in the offering plate? No way. They'd have to start offering the service in church. lol.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

An old couple fell on hard times and the husband told his wife that she would have to go work the streets so that they could eat. That evening she went out and came back home at 1am with $500.10.
the husband was pleased, but inquired " who gave you a dime" and she replied everyone.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

hahahaha


I just wondered why she thought it was better to get paid cash for sex instead of going out on a whole bunch of dates? I think some here at TAM have concluded that sex is empowering. I don't disagree with that. The only difference seems to be the fact that she got paid and others bartered.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

2ntnuf said:


> The only difference seems to be the fact that she got paid and others bartered.


Oh my God - I have never seen it put that way. But there is a lot of merit in that observation.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Miss Taken said:


> There are those that choose this lifestyle and are okay with that, there are some that may need rescuing... I read an article a long while back about a phone sex worker who was a SAH soccer mom. She claimed to love her job because of the high salary, flexibility, ability to work from home for very minimal work. I believed her.
> 
> Personally *I* couldn't do that line of work. *I* would feel degraded. However, my choices are my own, my views are my own and I recognize others may not share them. Who am I to say that deep down, that mom feels degraded? I don't have a microscope into her soul.
> 
> Any controversial subject is going to bring - well, uh...controversy and differing views and prostitution is no different.


Miss Taken...I feel as you do....in pretty much everything you said here...

I have found that others do not understand ME and it can be frustrating at times.. but it's because they don't THINK like me or care about the same things in life.. that's what makes the world so interesting.. our differences.. 

So how true of others.. we can't speak for them ...we just don't know....we haven't walked in their shoes or been exposed or inspired by the same things in life...or have the same wants, dreams, pleasures, desires...

So if we don't look through the same lenses in life.. how can we speak for them....I can't go there.. we can only speak for ourselves, and explain why we feel as strongly as we do.. not for someone else..

I think we all get frustrated when others impose their views upon us...trying to tell us we are wrong.. using their own way of viewing life/ love / sex .... I much appreciate the freedoms that come in our society...to live and let live.. to say their is no Price to some of these things.. would be to downplay.. there can and often is.. these are just things we must weigh on our choices in life.. 

One night husband joked with me I ought to work for a sex hotline (I really like to flirt and lay it on thick).... maybe he was half joking... We seen a movie not too long ago where this young woman was doing this on the side.. she had to hide it from her new BF ..I remember it being really funny how he found out...a misunderstanding for sure... but he was cool with it..


Maybe this will sound outrageous...I just asked my husband .. he wouldn't even care If I did that.. so long as no one knew who I was!!... ha ha


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



SimplyAmorous said:


> ...One night husband joked with me I ought to work for a sex hotline (I really like to flirt and lay it on thick).... maybe he was half joking... Maybe this will sound outrageous...I just asked my husband .. he wouldn't even care If I did that.. so long as no one knew who I was!!... ha ha


As someone that has paid a lot of attention, thru TAM, to the dynamic between you and your H, and conversed with him once or twice too, I think leaving this as a joke or the thought as a role playing type of fantasy would be healthy and fun for you guys. If you ever did anything like that for real it would be very disrespectful (to him, yourself and your marriage) and I bet he would not like it one bit.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Happyfamily said:


> Oh my God - I have never seen it put that way. But there is a lot of merit in that observation.


Hmm.. A chicken salad will be a a goodnight kiss. A pasta will get you a little further. For a bit more, you will have to fork up a steak. Well, if you put up with a surf and turf, I will put up the dessert...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lon said:


> Yes, being able to be in control of the assets they possess and use them for their own benefit rather than being exploited for them with no fair return.


This makes the assumption that she would be exploited in the first place.

I did volunteer work with sexually abused children for years.

There was one teen whose parents caught her sending out video as and photos of herself to men online. I think she was 15/16 age range.

I talked with her about it. She said that she did it because she liked the have power over the men. She had been abused from a young age. So when she did this she felt like she was taking power back. She thought that the men were stupid tools that she could get to do anything by just showing them her body. 

Basically she was experimenting and observing the reaction of the men. She was very clinical about it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



EleGirl said:


> This makes the assumption that she would be exploited in the first place.
> 
> I did volunteer work with sexually abused children for years.
> 
> ...


Was she atleast making any money off it it? Or was she underselling herself?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> This makes the assumption that she would be exploited in the first place.
> 
> I did volunteer work with sexually abused children for years.
> 
> ...


Do you know what happened to her later? It sounds like she's a survivor.

I was reading an article in which a journalist volunteered at a shelter for women. After sitting in on the self help groups in which woman after woman talked about having been raped and gang raped multiple times, the journalist was just about to lose all hope and respect until a permanent staffer explained that women and girls who have been abused lose the ability to set proper boundaries.

Interesting thought. while I feel that I sometimes don't have good boundaries in many types of interactions, I obviously must have good ones when it comes to sex. I can think of one or two "tight squeezes" when I was in college and then that surge of "oh no you don't" just comes out of nowhere (probably complete with rotating neck too). But I guess if you have been sexually abused, you never the sense of protecting your sexuality.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lon said:


> Was she atleast making any money off it it? Or was she underselling herself?


Are you suggesting that a kid should be selling herself?

No she did not do it for money. She did it to play with what she saw as very stupid men.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Do you know what happened to her later? It sounds like she's a survivor.


Yes I do know what happened to her. We talk all the time. She’s 25 now. 



NextTimeAround said:


> I was reading an article in which a journalist volunteered at a shelter for women. After sitting in on the self help groups in which woman after woman talked about having been raped and gang raped multiple times, the journalist was just about to lose all hope and respect until a permanent staffer explained that women and girls who have been abused lose the ability to set proper boundaries.


Yes they do lose that ability. With the girl I mentioned, she went through several years of promiscuity. I was very concerned for her for a while there. Then at 20 she married an abusive 45 year old creep. That went bad. Then one day she just seemed to wake up. She divorced him… no kids thank goodness. She seems to have her act together and is finally very good at setting boundaries. She’s also in college working on a nursing degree. She’s going to be ok.



NextTimeAround said:


> Interesting thought. while I feel that I sometimes don't have good boundaries in many types of interactions, I obviously must have good ones when it comes to sex. I can think of one or two "tight squeezes" when I was in college and then that surge of "oh no you don't" just comes out of nowhere (probably complete with rotating neck too). But I guess if you have been sexually abused, you never the sense of protecting your sexuality.


Some sexually abused people can find that ability to protect themselves. Others cannot.

Often, when a woman who was abused earlier in life will become very promiscuous for a while; sometimes a long time. With the lucky ones, something finally clicks and she goes on to have a much healthier view of her own sexuality and of how to relate to men. Some never get to this point.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Yes I do know what happened to her. We talk all the time. She’s 25 now.
> 
> 
> Yes they do lose that ability. With the girl I mentioned, she went through several years of promiscuity. I was very concerned for her for a while there. Then at 20 she married an abusive 45 year old creep. That went bad. Then one day she just seemed to wake up. She divorced him… no kids thank goodness. She seems to have her act together and is finally very good at setting boundaries. She’s also in college working on a nursing degree. She’s going to be ok.
> ...


Some just go on to abusing men and setting them up into traps. They end up abusing men who would've been good for them due to the lessons the "bad" men taught them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Some just go on to abusing men and setting them up into traps. They end up abusing men who would've been good for them due to the lessons the "bad" men taught them.


Yep, there is no one way that victims of abuse react.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: Prostitution "Empowering", According To Prostitute*



EleGirl said:


> Are you suggesting that a kid should be selling herself?
> 
> No she did not do it for money. She did it to play with what she saw as very stupid men.


I wasn't suggesting child prostitution, just trying to figure out how in what way it was actually empowering? I could see the first couple times she would indeed recognize that she has something a lot of men want, but then I can't say how stupid those men were because they were getting what they wanted for free.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

I have known a couple of ex prostitutes. Both hated it and had no desire for their daughters to go down that road. Seems like a sad job to me.

They did like the money. One told me tha amount of money she made was like an addiction in itself.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I suspect the answers one might get from a 25 year old prostitute might be very different from the answers one might get from the average 50 year old prostitute. To me, empowerment isn't only about money. If it were, I'd be dealing drugs instead of putting drug dealers in jail. If one's ability to sustain oneself is dependent entirely upon one's appearance, that person isn't empowered. Appearances can change in an instant. Having the knowledge and skills to adapt to and succeed in a variety of environments is empowering. All creatures know how to mate. There is no real pride or achievement involved in being a human with the same skill set. If a person wishes to be a prostitute, a model, a sports figure, etc, more power to them, but if they are wise, they will invest a portion of their earnings and they will learn other skills because their careers are generally short-lived.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

lancaster said:


> I have known a couple of ex prostitutes. Both hated it and had no desire for their daughters to go down that road. Seems like a sad job to me.
> 
> They did like the money. One told me tha amount of money she made was like an addiction in itself.


That's why they say it's " empowering."
The money compensates for the social stigma.

However I've also known a few sex workers in the past an I often asked them why don't they save and invest their money. They make lots of it. Back then the strippers I knew sometimes made upwards of $3K / mth.

Most of the times they blow the money on drugs, parties , and lots of stupid things.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lon said:


> I wasn't suggesting child prostitution, just trying to figure out how in what way it was actually empowering? I could see the first couple times she would indeed recognize that she has something a lot of men want, but then I can't say how stupid those men were because they were getting what they wanted for free.


When a kid is abused, they typically get to feel like they have no power. 

What she did was empowering because she realized that she had the power. The men were just idiots who would do anything for a peek. If her parents had not caught her early in this she probably would have started to ask for things of value from the men. So it would not have been free for them for very long.

She said that if she had kept it up and started to ask for money or things, she would be doing it to humiliate the men as she found their reaction pathetic.

I kind of agree with her. Men trolling the internet hoping to get women to show them a picture or peek at her body is pretty sad.


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## Happyfamily (Apr 15, 2014)

rubpy3 said:


> Hmm.. A chicken salad will be a a goodnight kiss. A pasta will get you a little further. For a bit more, you will have to fork up a steak. Well, if you put up with a surf and turf, I will put up the dessert...


Well exactly. I don't know how many women here will be honest about saying or hearing someone else in the high school girls' room saying "I don't give it up that easy..." meaning the guy hasn't put out enough yet. They learn to be more subtle about it when they're older, but are still doing the same thing. 

Isn't it ironic to hear men brag about how they don't "pay" for sex, but they're making $1000 a month car payments, investments in clothes and other trappings, lavishing money on dates... And women on the other hand sneering about someone who takes cash instead of all the trade items. 

It is also curious to hear the "power" talk being restricted to prostitutes and abused children. This is a power just about any woman can choose to exercise. The most common form it represents itself though is negatively - keeping your man down by withholding sex.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why they say it's " empowering."
> The money compensates for the social stigma.
> 
> However I've also known a few sex workers in the past an I often asked them why don't they save and invest their money. They make lots of it. Back then the strippers I knew sometimes made upwards of $3K / mth.
> ...


Fast money, earned by doing things on the edge usually goes fast.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> I suspect the answers one might get from a 25 year old prostitute might be very different from the answers one might get from the average 50 year old prostitute. To me, empowerment isn't only about money. If it were, I'd be dealing drugs instead of putting drug dealers in jail. If one's ability to sustain oneself is dependent entirely upon one's appearance, that person isn't empowered. Appearances can change in an instant. Having the knowledge and skills to adapt to and succeed in a variety of environments is empowering. All creatures know how to mate. There is no real pride or achievement involved in being a human with the same skill set. If a person wishes to be a prostitute, a model, a sports figure, etc, more power to them, but if they are wise, they will invest a portion of their earnings and they will learn other skills because their careers are generally short-lived.


There was a documentary on the other day called my granny the escort, one seemed to feel pretty empowered that men as young as 20 would pay £250 a hour to have sex with her (she was 85).


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lon said:


> As someone that has paid a lot of attention, thru TAM, to the dynamic between you and your H, and conversed with him once or twice too, I think leaving this as a joke or the thought as a role playing type of fantasy would be healthy and fun for you guys. If you ever did anything like that for real it would be very disrespectful (to him, yourself and your marriage) and I bet he would not like it one bit.


Yes, I probably should not be so vocal about the things we say to each other -as it sounds bad I suppose.. that sort of thing would never happen in reality....it's like entertaining some fantasies ..(and no, this is not one by any means)... Fantasies need left right where they are -in our heads ...it would change the whole dynamics & rock it to the core to actually engage in & bring to life.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> One night husband joked with me I ought to work for a sex hotline (I really like to flirt and lay it on thick).... maybe he was half joking...


That's funny, my wife often says I should get myself out there because she thinks I would make a good gigolo. One thing for sure though, regardless of her encouragement I'm pretty certain she wouldn't be happy if I did as she suggests. So I won't be trying that in this lifetime.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

I agree with others that this is a personal thing. I'm not a woman but I would imagine that it is very hard to 'turn off' your feelings and just have sex like it's any job. Clearly some can do this and I would imagine that in this case, it is not degrading to the woman.

However, I find it hard to imagine what it's like for a woman to not know what's going to walk through the door but only know that she must have sex with him no matter who he is - that's her job. Short of refusing to have sex with a guy due to some kind of problem (e.g. he asks for something disturbing, he seems like he might be violent, he's disrespectful or unclean, etc) the prostitute's job is to have sex with whatever walks in and cater to his sexual desires - no matter if she finds him disgusting or repulsive. Maybe some women can 'turn off' their repulsion disgust easier than others and just make themselves numb to it. This isn't like dating, being promiscuous or having sex with guys 'in exchange for' an expensive dinner on a date. I find those comparisons strange.

Maybe there are times when a prostitute thinks, "I can't believe how easy this is". But at other times, she needs to do things that must leave her totally disgusted to the core.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Give her 5-10 years and let's see how she feels then.

Time will take it's toll, I guarantee it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Personal said:


> That's funny, my wife often says I should get myself out there because she thinks I would make a good gigolo. One thing for sure though, regardless of her encouragement I'm pretty certain she wouldn't be happy if I did as she suggests. So I won't be trying that in this lifetime.


They say now a days most "gigilos" or male prostitutes are having sex with other men. So gay sex acts for money.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

couple said:


> I agree with others that this is a personal thing. I'm not a woman but I would imagine that it is very hard to 'turn off' your feelings and just have sex like it's any job. Clearly some can do this and I would imagine that in this case, it is not degrading to the woman.
> 
> However, I find it hard to imagine what it's like for a woman to not know what's going to walk through the door but only know that she must have sex with him no matter who he is - that's her job. Short of refusing to have sex with a guy due to some kind of problem (e.g. he asks for something disturbing, he seems like he might be violent, he's disrespectful or unclean, etc) the prostitute's job is to have sex with whatever walks in and cater to his sexual desires - no matter if she finds him disgusting or repulsive. Maybe some women can 'turn off' their repulsion disgust easier than others and just make themselves numb to it. This isn't like dating, being promiscuous or having sex with guys 'in exchange for' an expensive dinner on a date. I find those comparisons strange.
> 
> Maybe there are times when a prostitute thinks, "I can't believe how easy this is". But at other times, she needs to do things that must leave her totally disgusted to the core.


Once again you guys have put prostitutes on a pedestal. Basically these are females who will do vile sex acts with anyone as long as they pay. You think that's a wholesome women?

Prostitutes also over time and in the system become very predatory, so they will set you up to be robbed or bamboozled.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

TiggyBlue said:


> There was a documentary on the other day called my granny the escort, one seemed to feel pretty empowered that men as young as 20 would pay £250 a hour to have sex with her (she was 85).


If she started in the business around age 18 or 20, I expect 95% of her workmates were dead before they reached 50. Being dead doesn't seem to be all that empowering. The world is a huge place and there are exceptions to every trend and even 85 year old ladies sometimes tell enormous lies. I've seen documentaries about Big Foot. Doesn't mean he exists.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> If she started in the business around age 18 or 20, I expect 95% of her workmates were dead before they reached 50. Being dead doesn't seem to be all that empowering. The world is a huge place and there are exceptions to every trend and even 85 year old ladies sometimes tell enormous lies. I've seen documentaries about Big Foot. Doesn't mean he exists.


She didn't start prostitution untill after retirement age,I think she was bored lol, 
She was the grandmother of a contestant on some talent show a couple of years ago and the some journalist found out and went undercover to exposed her, the document of older prostitutes was done on the back of the whole tabloid storm about her so i doubt she was lying. Like you said there are exceptions and a market for everything.
My point was that the older prostitutes seem to definitely talked about their job like they were empowered by it more than anything.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

TiggyBlue said:


> She didn't start prostitution untill after retirement age,I think she was bored lol,
> She was the grandmother of a contestant on some talent show a couple of years ago and the some journalist found out and went undercover to exposed her, the document of older prostitutes was done on the back of the whole tabloid storm about her so i doubt she was lying. Like you said there are exceptions and a market for everything.
> My point was that the older prostitutes seem to definitely talked about their job like they were empowered by it more than anything.


You viewed a TV show. Before you saw it, a number of things happened. The alleged journalist decided on the angle of the story. They decided which kinds of people would be interviewed and which questions would be asked and in which way. Finally, it was edited and only the portions they wanted to air made it to your screen. More than anything resembling truth, you saw a fabrication. B.S. is the most abundant commodity on earth and Liberal B.S. is the most common variety of B.S.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> *You viewed a TV show. Before you saw it, a number of things happened. The alleged journalist decided on the angle of the story. They decided which kinds of people would be interviewed and which questions would be asked and in which way. Finally, it was edited and only the portions they wanted to air made it to your screen. More than anything resembling truth, you saw a fabrication.* B.S. is the most abundant commodity on earth and Liberal B.S. is the most common variety of B.S.


There's probably a lot of truth in that.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> If she started in the business around age 18 or 20, I expect 95% of her workmates were dead before they reached 50. Being dead doesn't seem to be all that empowering. The world is a huge place and there are exceptions to every trend and even 85 year old ladies sometimes tell enormous lies. I've seen documentaries about Big Foot. Doesn't mean he exists.


Normally there are silly posts here on TAM that I filter out and move on, and then there's comments like above. I can't understand how else you come up with figure of 95% of her coworkers being dead before reaching 50. Did it occur to you for one second that making such claim tend to discredit everything in your post? You can't just pull numbers out of thin air, at least it should be based somewhat on facts. You can't use fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) as a tactic and expect people to believe you.

For the record, type "prostitute life expectancy" into google and you will arrive at scholar articles on such matter: 

Mortality in a Long-term Open Cohort of Prostitute Women

To summarize, the mortality rate of a woman with record of prostitution is 1.9 SMR, and an active prostitute's life expectancy is 5.9 SMR compared to general public. The mortality rate is 5.9 times higher, significantly higher than general public. Primary causes of these deaths are violent homicide, drug related problems, and accident (may or may not prostitution related). 

For more detailed discussion on SMR, follow the article or the wiki article on SMR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardized_mortality_ratio

No one will argue that prostitutes are more likely to die than a normal woman, especially of a violent, drug related death. But come on, 95% of her coworkers will be dead? Do you believe what you typed yourself? Please be more responsible for your writing.

EDIT: revised the section on SMR.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

rubpy3 said:


> Normally there are silly posts here on TAM that I filter out and move on, and then there's comments like above. I can't understand how else you come up with figure of 95% of her coworkers being dead before reaching 50. Did it occur to you for one second that making such claim tend to discredit everything in your post? You can't just pull numbers out of thin air, at least it should be based somewhat on facts. You can't use fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) as a tactic and expect people to believe you.
> 
> For the record, type "prostitute life expectancy" into google and you will arrive at scholar articles on such matter:
> 
> ...


1.9 per what? And 5.9 per what?

Per 100 people? 10000?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Crack dealing can be lucrative for crack dealers too.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

1.9 SMR / 5.9 SMR - standardized mortality rate.



> The standardized mortality ratio is the ratio of observed deaths in the study group to expected deaths in the general population.


Original post slightly edited for better readability.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

rubpy3 said:


> 1.9 SMR / 5.9 SMR - standardized mortality rate.
> 
> 
> 
> Original post slightly edited for better readability.


Per what population?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Per what population?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The SMR compares the ratio of study group to the general population. The population size does not matter - regardless of the population size, the SMR indicates that mortality rate is 1.9 or 5.9 or xxx times higher than general population.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

rubpy3 said:


> The ratio compares the ratio of study group to the general population. The population size does not matter - regardless of the population size, the SMR indicates that mortality rate is 1.9 or 5.9 or xxx times higher than general population.


Understood.


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