# Am I being Manipulated?



## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

So, back in 2011 I almost left my husband. Turns out most of our problems at that time stemmed from him being unhappy at work (so I thought). He got offered a great new job, we moved 4 times & any problems with our marriage took a back seat. But surprise, the problems found us again. 

I preface all this with “I married my best friend”. We laughed, we had a blast, we had spontaneous adventures & I genuinely think he is a genius. He taught me so many incredible things. However, he is the worst husband and I felt intellectually inferior. Like he was always trying to win arguments with me. It makes you feel CRAZY. 

He avoids any responsibility in the marriage and home. I dealt with the scrubbing, the bills, the cars, the contractors, all the family gifts, all the heavy lifting. But that also meant that I had a lot of alone time, which I liked. We’d meet up for dinner & the occasional trip, but we totally lead separate lives. He has never been my emergency contact, I never relied on him for anything important. I just chalked it up to his high IQ and inability to relate to the world of the domestic. Or maybe it’s by design? Maybe he wormed his way out of everything? I settled into my role & told myself that it was not perfect, but I knew how to keep it stable. Don’t ask him for help, do not engage in the mundane & he will be fun & happy. 

In my 40’s, something changed. 

He doesn’t like to bathe more than once a week, and even then, soap was used sparingly. He may be on the spectrum. One therapist told me it was him crying out for the unconditional love he never got from his Mother. Gross. I would drink & watch porn to have sex. Always from behind. We never connected, there was no cuddling, it was totally mechanical. No intimacy. I snapped at 40. I could no longer do this. I hated myself. And him for not noticing. 

I became friends with a very sensitive gay man. He showed me what a good relationship felt like. He looked into me and knew me & I felt loved & valued. This is the most emotional intimacy I have ever encountered. He died suddenly. My husband did not go to the funeral. He didn’t do much to comfort me. The loss hit me hard. But it also showed me how hungry I was for a connection and how good I was at it, too. 

A few months later, I was dealing with something traumatic & dangerous. I was very nervous about it. I never did this, but I asked my husband to please keep his ringer on (it was always off). He agreed. Well, I needed him 4 hours later & his phone was turned off. I called & sent multiple texts & never heard back. When I got home, he did not apologize. He argued with me that his time was too valuable to keep his phone on.

Something in me snapped. I even told him, “whoa. I don’t care anymore. I am done arguing. I am not going to argue about your lack of caring about me again”. It took another year, but I filed for separation & rented an apartment.


That got his attention.

Dozens of hours of counseling, blame all around. Books everywhere. I still feel indifferent. But now we are in limbo. I spend more time in the marital home. He begs me to connect with him. He meditates an hour a day. He used to tell me my emotions, being sensitive, being empathetic was a liability & now he is always touching his chest, leaning in to tell me how he feels about things. Mister loved-to-debate, the same guy who left me at the dentist because he had bad reception, the guy who never noticed anything about me, the house or anything that ever mattered to me, suddenly after 20 years is the most mindful, sentimental soul who ever walked the planet AND he knows my favorite flower, finally, because he put it in his phone (brownie points, please!). And he’s begging me to give it a shot. His therapist is saying that all of the neglect he showered on me was because his parents were mean. I just can’t seem to soften to him & listen. It doesn’t feel authentic in a way that... is from a place of real love. It’s from fear or him trying to prove something. Like... he’s trying to win. He calls me cynical. I just... don’t know. It takes a lot out of me to be around him. His presence makes me so angry. And I don’t know why since he seems to be trying so hard. 

I’m fearful. My heart is begging me to get up the courage to leave, but something is keeping me here. I don’t know what it is. Guilt? I know I cannot have sex with him again. I feel like this new empath character is fake.

any advice?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe he doesn’t want to be alone.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Guilt can be a powerful motivator to keep the status quo. I stayed in a dysfunctional marriage for decades because I didn’t want to break up my family.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

That’s difficult. The truth is that his neglect of you could have at its roots his experiences as a child. But that really only goes so far. When you decide to spend your life with someone, you take the responsibility of being a caring, supportive spouse. What you experienced before even if traumatic, is your responsibility to deal with and correct. You don’t deal with it by saddling another person with the fallout, that only makes them responsible for your misfortune. There’s no fairness in that 

Based on your post, I can see why you’re where you’re at. You put your foot down and he responded, in some respect that must have been what you wanted - right? Are you perhaps confused because it got his attention when you didn’t expect it to? I guess my advice would be to try and understand the feelings that are urging you to stay. It’s more than apparent why you want to leave. You don’t say that you have kids, that would be a consideration.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Openminded said:


> Maybe he doesn’t want to be alone.


Very possible.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

grayhound said:


> So, back in 2011 I almost left my husband. Turns out most of our problems at that time stemmed from him being unhappy at work (so I thought). He got offered a great new job, we moved 4 times & any problems with our marriage took a back seat. But surprise, the problems found us again.
> 
> I preface all this with “I married my best friend”. We laughed, we had a blast, we had spontaneous adventures & I genuinely think he is a genius. He taught me so many incredible things. However, he is the worst husband and I felt intellectually inferior. Like he was always trying to win arguments with me. It makes you feel CRAZY.
> 
> ...


Maybe he’s turned a corner, maybe he’s awakened, turned a new leaf, been reborn or whatever. Maybe it’s real. But you have every right to determine if it matters anymore. Every right. And you do not have to feel guilt, shame or anything else for walking away now.

You can’t have sex with him again. To me... that’s the answer to your question. But I guess different people are ok with different things in a marriage so that’s your call as well.

I’m sorry to hear about your best friend. It sounds very painful that you lost him. What would he have told you to do now?


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Openminded said:


> Guilt can be a powerful motivator to keep the status quo. I stayed in a dysfunctional marriage for decades because I didn’t want to break up my family.


Very true. I think I made so many excuses for him & thought love meant sacrifice. And maybe I see glimmers of the good in him so I shouldn’t just give up. But I don’t have kids, so... maybe I’m worried about taking the dog away? I’m sorry you stayed so long


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

QuietRiot said:


> Maybe he’s turned a corner, maybe he’s awakened, turned a new leaf, been reborn or whatever. Maybe it’s real. But you have every right to determine if it matters anymore. Every right. And you do not have to feel guilt, shame or anything else for walking away now.
> 
> You can’t have sex with him again. To me... that’s the answer to your question. But I guess different people are ok with different things in a marriage so that’s your call as well.
> 
> I’m sorry to hear about your best friend. It sounds very painful that you lost him. What would he have told you to do now?


Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

I kept reading that the spark, the chemistry, the passion dies when you hit 50. “A friendship is what keeps you moving along” and I took that as gospel. But I truly want intimacy, to be touched, passion, eye contact. That was never here. There was never chemistry here. I should have known. It’s embarrassing.

my friend... we’d joke about being the Golden Girls with ample cheesecake & laughter with no need for men. He would tell me to follow my heart & trust it. I think his people pleasing had a hand in him dying.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

grayhound said:


> Very true. I think I made so many excuses for him & thought love meant sacrifice. And maybe I see glimmers of the good in him so I shouldn’t just give up. But I don’t have kids, so... maybe I’m worried about taking the dog away? I’m sorry you stayed so long


Thanks. Staying so long is the only regret I have but it made sense when I was in the middle of it.

Clarity came later. I hope it does for you as well.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

FlaviusMaximus said:


> That’s difficult. The truth is that his neglect of you could have at its roots his experiences as a child. But that really only goes so far. When you decide to spend your life with someone, you take the responsibility of being a caring, supportive spouse. What you experienced before even if traumatic, is your responsibility to deal with and correct. You don’t deal with it by saddling another person with the fallout, that only makes them responsible for your misfortune. There’s no fairness in that
> 
> Based on your post, I can see why you’re where you’re at. You put your foot down and he responded, in some respect that must have been what you wanted - right? Are you perhaps confused because it got his attention when you didn’t expect it to? I guess my advice would be to try and understand the feelings that are urging you to stay. It’s more than apparent why you want to leave. You don’t say that you have kids, that would be a consideration.


Thank you for your response. He and I both came from emotionally dysfunctional families, so we both had stuff to work on. But he lacked the basics. Calling me when he got to his destination while on travel, basic welfare checks, basic soft “you are my sweetheart” gestures. I kept making excuses. My dad wasn’t around & I took care of my mother emotionally, so the role I took as this wife... I was the mother of an angry teenager. It was so odd. I thought the colder he was & the more I accepted it, the better I was as a person. Love=sacrifice. That’s what I was told. It’s pathetic.

He was supportive of any steps I took to better myself. He values learning & knowledge. But emotionally supportive was never something I encountered. He claims he realizes his lack of empathy & is working on that. I guess me staying is waiting to see what kind of rabbit he’ll pull out of his hat.

So when I had a rich, engaging, fulfilling, relationship with my friend, I felt so alive & full of joy. He would text me every night to say goodnight & he was thinking of me. And we knew each others’ quirks & favorite things. It all being yanked away so quickly gave me the clarity that this is exactly what I was missing in my inner world. Warmth & human connection & someone wanting to know me. He told me that our friendship gave him a feeling of security & a safe place to be himself that he hadn’t felt in a long time. I was so honored to hear that. He had an emotionally distant husband, too. Although his marriage was absolutely & obviously toxic. 

No kids, but a dog we both adore.

I’m really trying to sit with all my feelings. Something in me snapped two years ago. I felt indifferent to him & no longer made excuses for him after that last fight. I no longer wanted to beg for him to care. Beg for him to show up for me emotionally or physically. My ego had been kicked enough times & it’s like my self esteem said “ummm, we can’t go any lower”. I gave up. I haven’t been able to undo this thing that snapped.

Something more abstract to mention... the second I announced that I wanted to separate, I lost a bunch of weight, I immediately set boundaries with everyone I needed to do so with & my anxiety levels went down. Friends said “your energy is amazing, what is going on?” As I get sucked back in, the weight is slowly creeping back on & I have issues sleeping. But something in me still says “hear him out”.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Openminded said:


> Thanks. Staying so long is the only regret I have but it made sense when I was in the middle of it.
> 
> Clarity came later. I hope it does for you as well.


Thank you so much 💗


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

@grayhound, it sounds like you never had a really intimate relationship with him in all the years you were married. What attracted you to him in the first place? There are people who are like this, afraid of emotional intimacy, in fact many men are like this and the thing I keep hearing and reading is that we should never expect our husbands to be like our girlfriends or gay guy friends. This I agree with but in your case it was like living two separate lives and the lack of empathy and closeness has worn you down.
I think you are afraid to let go due to the unknown, but is seems you are a better and more emotionally healthy person when you are not with him. What do you really have to lose. If you cannot have sex with him, it sounds like you have crossed the line of no return. When that happens to a woman, then it is a no go. Read the work of Michele Weiner Davis for this.
I think to clear your head you need time apart from him and you have your own apartment, take the time, he owes you this as a minimum. Take a few months, think of the pros and cons of staying and going. Do you see yourself with him going into your 60's 70's and beyond?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

grayhound said:


> Thank you for your thoughtful answer.
> 
> I kept reading that the spark, the chemistry, the passion dies when you hit 50. “A friendship is what keeps you moving along” and I took that as gospel. But I truly want intimacy, to be touched, passion, eye contact. That was never here. There was never chemistry here. I should have known. It’s embarrassing.
> 
> my friend... we’d joke about being the Golden Girls with ample cheesecake & laughter with no need for men. He would tell me to follow my heart & trust it. I think his people pleasing had a hand in him dying.


I don’t think it’s embarrassing, I think the chemistry matters. You plainly admit you need the intimacy and you deserve that. It seems you’d be settling if you did stay... because obviously you won’t have that intimacy with him, even if he is a yogi now.

So you are Blanche and he is Sophia. Sounds perfect. I hear the theme song now.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why would you even consider going back to a guy who spent 20 years telling you and showing you that you have less relevance to him than the gum on the bottom of his shoe? His parents were mean to him so he took it out on you for 20 years. Your own body is telling you to stop with this guy. Listen to it.

You don't owe him anything. Start pulling back on time spent with him and watch how he reacts. It won't be pretty.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> OP, it might help to read this:


That didn't take long.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> That didn't take long.


I tried to share a link but it didn't work.

I'll try again soon.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

grayhound said:


> But I don’t have kids, so... maybe I’m worried about taking the dog away?


No kids? Why are you still with this lunatic? Sorry to be blunt. You can justify him for being super intelligent or on the "spectrum", but the truth is that he treats you very badly. These are the consequences for you. You stuck with him for a long time, but I think it's time for you to have a "normal" life. Good luck!


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I don't think it's a good idea for you to stay. He had 20 years to give you the emotional support you needed and he didn't. Does he know how to connect emotionally? How long will the connection last before he goes back to what he really is? 

I'm sure you are emotionally exhausted. If I were you, I would divorce ASAP, you deserve to be loved.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Have you thought of some good marriage counselling? Many highly intelligent people are bad at relationships, maybe because some of them are autuistic to some extent.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

grayhound said:


> I’m really trying to sit with all my feelings. Something in me snapped two years ago. I felt indifferent to him & no longer made excuses for him after that last fight. I no longer wanted to beg for him to care. Beg for him to show up for me emotionally or physically. My ego had been kicked enough times & it’s like my self esteem said “ummm, we can’t go any lower”. I gave up. I haven’t been able to undo this thing that snapped.
> 
> Something more abstract to mention... the second I announced that I wanted to separate, I lost a bunch of weight, I immediately set boundaries with everyone I needed to do so with & my anxiety levels went down. Friends said “your energy is amazing, what is going on?” As I get sucked back in, the weight is slowly creeping back on & I have issues sleeping. But something in me still says “hear him out”.


That something could be as simple as hope - but there should be a rationale for hope.
If I were you I'd look at the positive effect putting your foot down had on you physically and mentally, versus the effect "getting sucked back in" seems to be having. Interesting you phrased it that way isn't it?

This level of change in a person is very rare (he'd be a unicorn) - so this might be a time to listen to your intellect rather than your emotions. Life is short and it's way too short to be in a decades long experiment in whether you can cure someone else of their inequities. My advice, you need more to stand on for a decision than "But something in me still says “hear him out”. Good luck!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm not sure if you are manipulated on purpose, but the people like your husband tend to be very selfish.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Why would you even consider going back to a guy who spent 20 years telling you and showing you that you have less relevance to him than the gum on the bottom of his shoe? His parents were mean to him so he took it out on you for 20 years. Your own body is telling you to stop with this guy. Listen to it.
> 
> You don't owe him anything. Start pulling back on time spent with him and watch how he reacts. It won't be pretty.


I have been more distant & busy... he is acting out a lot. He used to travel a lot & be a huge extrovert, but because of covid, he’s more isolated. He claims he’s now an inward-thinking introvert & has obsessed on memes and books about being an introvert. Introverts are more emotionally deep, more thoughtful, don’t need outside stimulus wtc etc. I’ve always known him to be totally happy around lots of people, bustling cities etc. So all this talk of me leaving & my disconnect has disrupted his world. It’s hard to watch. He used to obsess on facts & the outer world, to watch him obsess on the inner world now (and claimed he has mastered it) is a little Twilight Zone.

yeah, my body is screaming at me to protect it & go. The stress etc. I need to go. I think my beautiful house that he hasn’t lifted a finger on, my awesome neighbors & my world here makes me want to stay. Everything but him feels like home. It makes me so sad. I can’t afford it on my own & he has rubbed that in my face.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

FlaviusMaximus said:


> That something could be as simple as hope - but there should be a rationale for hope.
> If I were you I'd look at the positive effect putting your foot down had on you physically and mentally, versus the effect "getting sucked back in" seems to be having. Interesting you phrased it that way isn't it?
> 
> This level of change in a person is very rare (he'd be a unicorn) - so this might be a time to listen to your intellect rather than your emotions. Life is short and it's way too short to be in a decades long experiment in whether you can cure someone else of their inequities. My advice, you need more to stand on for a decision than "But something in me still says “hear him out”. Good luck!


If I dig, I guess I hoped I would fall in love with him. Master my emotions. I’m really good at seeing through the cracks of someone and finding their good. It was a defense mechanism & it’s something I search for in the world. If I dig, I can find the light in someone, which is a gift, but perhaps there isn’t enough light here. I kept saying “he’s a good person, just not a good partner, so... be your own partner & enjoy the person.” I’m not asking him to fill my cup with happiness, I’m asking him to care about me, show up for me & make me important. He has to force himself to connect, and he can only tell me what Eckhart Tolle would do, not himself, that has to be exhausting, funneling emotions through a fact-based brain.

“Life is too short to be in a decades long experiment”. That is genius. This may be what hit me over the head today. Thank you 💗

I really appreciate the input. So much.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

grayhound said:


> So, back in 2011 I almost left my husband. Turns out most of our problems at that time stemmed from him being unhappy at work (so I thought). He got offered a great new job, we moved 4 times & any problems with our marriage took a back seat. But surprise, the problems found us again.
> 
> I preface all this with “I married my best friend”. We laughed, we had a blast, we had spontaneous adventures & I genuinely think he is a genius. He taught me so many incredible things. However, he is the worst husband and I felt intellectually inferior. Like he was always trying to win arguments with me. It makes you feel CRAZY.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry about your friend. I lost a bunch of gay friends in the 80s and 90s and still miss them every day and wish I had such a connection now. 

I think your fears are grounded. I mean, he has decided this is what he needs to do, but does he really FEEL it? I very much doubt it. Get you two into counseling and air these thoughts. Tell him and the therapist it all feels fake and contrived, that you appreciate the effort but you need real feelings and real concern, not faked feelings and concern. 

He has been an absent husband, no doubt. At a bare minimum, a partner needs to be there when you need some support and ask them. He failed. He doesn't care and seems to not get empathy at all. Of course, people who don't get empathy are either narcissists or sociopaths, so that's never good. Now it feels like he's behaving mainly to reinstate his own needs, doesn't it? So you need to confront that with your counselor together and see how he responds. If for you the thrill is gone, then it just is.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

You said you can't afford it on your own. Is that what's keeping you there now? You said you got an apartment, so you can obviously live on your own. Granted not at the same level of comfort, but isn't your own happiness worth some short term sacrifice.

You're 40 and no kids, if you are also in shape then you will be a woman in high demand by older guys. What I'm trying to say in the most respectful way is don't wait until you're 50. 

Best of luck.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’d like to point out a different side here, and I hope you don’t take offence because it’s an opportunity to learn something about yourself and grow.

You speak of your husband being distant and unavailable to you in the past, but speak very lovingly of your relationship... with a gay man.

Think about this for a minute - your greatest connection was with a man who was gay. Meaning, that was never going to go anywhere and you were safe and free and happy... in a relationship that meant you could remain completely uncommitted. Nothing even akin to a marriage was ever going to happen there. No physical component, nothing. This was a fantasy. There was no closeness, it was not the great friendship/relationship you thought it was, and that’s going to shock you into maybe being angry at me for saying this. 

So is it you?

Because now your husband is finally giving you all of this that you needed... and you don’t want it. You’re repelled and repulsed. By real closeness, the human condition, that thing where your husband made great mistakes and has learned from them.

Is it maybe you that is unable to connect to anyone?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Some other points to ponder: you had an affair. Were you/are you rewriting history?

All of your analysis of your husband comes from what you think is wrong with him, what you’ve told your therapist. Your therapist can’t diagnose him based on what you’re saying. It’s a pretty big call to label someone on the spectrum.

Why didn’t you have kids? Your decision?


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not sure if you are manipulated on purpose, but the people like your husband tend to be very selfish.


He really is. The people that raised me were the same way, so this felt comfortable to me. I also think he’s on the spectrum which gives him mind blindness to the needs of others.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Luckylucky said:


> I’d like to point out a different side here, and I hope you don’t take offence because it’s an opportunity to learn something about yourself and grow.
> 
> You speak of your husband being distant and unavailable to you in the past, but speak very lovingly of your relationship... with a gay man.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the opportunity to think outside the box here 

let’s see...

I loved a man before my husband. Deeply. I was with him for five years and he decided to become very religious. And he bailed. It broke me because I trusted and loved him immensely.

There have also been a few other men who I Ieft for various reasons. I connected with a few of them & truly loved them. 

My mother was emotionally immature and my earliest memories are of comforting her and making sure that she was OK. I knew never to ask for anything and always keep the mood up because she couldn’t handle any other problems besides her own. I have lived this way in my marriage.

I honesty believe that I know how to love deeply. I’m sensitive, empathetic & very in tune with people. But I did put a wall up after being hurt too many times. My husband was emotionally shallow, but very intelligent. I really looked up to him. He pursued me hard after the religious guy dumped me, so I just figured that if someone this smart liked me, it was a good thing. And my Mom was having a mental crisis, so moving out of her house at that time needed to happen. Might as well move in with the boyfriend.

So, coasting along for some time, not connecting with anyone other than two close girl friends, this artistic, creative gay man comes along & softens my heart to more than just those 2 close friends. I don’t know why, but his friendship woke me up. It made me feel valued because I just thought the world of him. Since his passing, I have connected with more people because I learned about boundaries, not taking things personally & realizing that people are critical of what they hate about themselves. It came with my midlife crisis package... it’s been absolutely freeing.

so, yes, I had a wall up to the outside world. And at first, I had a wall up to my husband. But for about 12 of the 20 years I went to him, asking for him to be more vulnerable & sweet with me. And he was unable to treat me any different than a coworker or friend. He just could not. I made excuses for him for as long as I could and then one day... snapped. 

I don’t know what happened and why I let this go on for so long and why my gay friend’s friendship & death changed me forever.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Luckylucky said:


> I’d like to point out a different side here, and I hope you don’t take offence because it’s an opportunity to learn something about yourself and grow.
> 
> You speak of your husband being distant and unavailable to you in the past, but speak very lovingly of your relationship... with a gay man.
> 
> ...


Also, my husband is getting in touch with his own emotions. He is going to a therapist to undo his childhood. Yes, he is trying to connect with me. But it doesn’t feel authentic. That’s why I feel manipulated. Something isn’t right.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm so sorry about your friend. I lost a bunch of gay friends in the 80s and 90s and still miss them every day and wish I had such a connection now.
> 
> I think your fears are grounded. I mean, he has decided this is what he needs to do, but does he really FEEL it? I very much doubt it. Get you two into counseling and air these thoughts. Tell him and the therapist it all feels fake and contrived, that you appreciate the effort but you need real feelings and real concern, not faked feelings and concern.
> 
> He has been an absent husband, no doubt. At a bare minimum, a partner needs to be there when you need some support and ask them. He failed. He doesn't care and seems to not get empathy at all. Of course, people who don't get empathy are either narcissists or sociopaths, so that's never good. Now it feels like he's behaving mainly to reinstate his own needs, doesn't it? So you need to confront that with your counselor together and see how he responds. If for you the thrill is gone, then it just is.


Getting into counseling might help. We already saw a marriage counselor and both of us are seeing individual counselors.

His new found sensitivity feels off. I can’t explain it. He still only does what benefits him. He gets angry and tells me that I’m not trying hard enough or opening up to him but... I just feel strange.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Luckylucky said:


> Some other points to ponder: you had an affair. Were you/are you rewriting history?
> 
> All of your analysis of your husband comes from what you think is wrong with him, what you’ve told your therapist. Your therapist can’t diagnose him based on what you’re saying. It’s a pretty big call to label someone on the spectrum.
> 
> Why didn’t you have kids? Your decision?


Kids... I wanted them with my ex. But I did not want them with my husband. Because... I felt that I would be raising said child(ren) on my own and frankly, deep down I didn’t want to mix my DNA with his. 

I felt the need to put a label of Asperger on my husband because all other roads pointed to him being a raging narcissist. Aspie meant we could work with it. Aspie meant there was a solution. Aspie meant that he had a heart, but just couldn’t express himself. I spent years trying to talk to him differently, trying to relate differently to him. Using more specific wording, asking for help in dozens of different ways. Calendar, emails, requests in writing. All failed. Crying failed. Begging failed. I failed. And for the record I have never brought up “on the spectrum” to any therapist. Yet. It has just come up on forums via strangers. My therapist says I’m not happy, I don’t feel loved or safe. Make a plan to leave. Let me help you gather your courage to leave. That’s as far as it went. The marriage counselor told me that I am not good at communicating & his lack of showers probably has to do with his father walking in on him masterbating. His therapist says his lack of doing **** for me stems from his need for unconditional love from his mother. How does that help anyone?

Are you saying my friendship with my gay friend was an affair?


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Al_Bundy said:


> You said you can't afford it on your own. Is that what's keeping you there now? You said you got an apartment, so you can obviously live on your own. Granted not at the same level of comfort, but isn't your own happiness worth some short term sacrifice.
> 
> You're 40 and no kids, if you are also in shape then you will be a woman in high demand by older guys. What I'm trying to say in the most respectful way is don't wait until you're 50.
> 
> Best of luck.


I have put so much love and sweat into this house. I cannot afford to keep it. He knows what it means to me & has said that I can’t afford to keep it, let alone “live in this neighborhood, we’ll put you in the adjacent (higher crime) neighborhood.” He later said I took it the wrong way.

My lifestyle will change. Absolutely. But I believe his will, too. I’ve done everything for so long, I wonder how he’ll handle it?

what’s keeping me here? This is going to sound strange... it feels authentic for the first time in our relationship. We have always been friends. So here I am, living with my friend, not having to have sex. My garden is here, my things are here. The dog has us both here. I expect nothing from him, I only give what I want & I feel at peace. It’s the most honest our relationship has ever been.

One other person said that a child-free 40-something woman is a commodity. I had no idea.

what happens when we turn 50?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Yes you’ve put a lot into the house, you didn’t want kids with him. You don’t want sex with him. Yes you had an affair with a gay man. You don’t like sex with your husband and had an emotional affair with a man you couldn’t have sex with. You didn’t want to mix DNA with him, ouch that’s rather clinical. Do him a great favour and free him to have a chance at mixing dna with a woman who wants to rip his pants off, and enjoy turning 50 if you’re unhappy with him. 

Tell me, how is your husband’s situation appearing fake, inauthentic when he’s based in reality? His wife won’t have sex with him, doesn’t want him & he’s firmly had a real-world snap and acting accordingly. You too said something in you snapped after an emotional affair that wasn’t going to go anywhere. How is his change less important or real than the awakening in you?

I really think he should stop doing the pick-me-dance.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

grayhound said:


> I have put so much love and sweat into this house. I cannot afford to keep it. He knows what it means to me & has said that I can’t afford to keep it, let alone “live in this neighborhood, we’ll put you in the adjacent (higher crime) neighborhood.” He later said I took it the wrong way.
> 
> My lifestyle will change. Absolutely. But I believe his will, too. I’ve done everything for so long, I wonder how he’ll handle it?
> 
> ...


But obviously he’s not happy about this situation and pushes you for more. Interesting he holds the house over your head as a means to keep you around... and sounds very passive aggressive. 

If he was willing to have a marriage of convenience and friendship to share the house that’s one thing, but he sounds like he wants more and throws little tantrums to get his way. I would question the behavior as well, sometimes it’s too late. Even if it is authentic. 

How does being walked in on make you not shower? I love how everything is someone else’s fault. Just wash your ass dude!


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

Luckylucky said:


> Yes you’ve put a lot into the house, you didn’t want kids with him. You don’t want sex with him. Yes you had an affair with a gay man. You don’t like sex with your husband and had an emotional affair with a man you couldn’t have sex with. You didn’t want to mix DNA with him, ouch that’s rather clinical. Do him a great favour and free him to have a chance at mixing dna with a woman who wants to rip his pants off, and enjoy turning 50 if you’re unhappy with him.
> 
> Tell me, how is your husband’s situation appearing fake, inauthentic when he’s based in reality? His wife won’t have sex with him, doesn’t want him & he’s firmly had a real-world snap and acting accordingly. You too said something in you snapped after an emotional affair that wasn’t going to go anywhere. How is his change less important or real than the awakening in you?
> 
> I really think he should stop doing the pick-me-dance.


You are right. I should free him up to make some other unfortunate girl miserable. He likes them realllly young these days, so lock up your daughters!

One thing folks on the spectrum say, they can’t tell when someone is asking for help
or when their character is being attacked. Me asking my husband to take a shower so I could have sex with him made him feel attacked. His words. Then he would take less showers to rebel against me but still expected me to have sex with him since that is my duty. Does this sound normal? Does this sound like someone who would make a great dad? Someone who would make me swoon and love him and want to rip off his clothes? Nope. It slowly killed my self esteem until I’m, according to you, having an affair with a man I can’t sleep with.

I know how to love. I loved a man who smelled, who never helped me in our life together and who ignored my needs. For 20 years. I loved him because he was so smart, and accomplished & could retain the most obscure information and he wrote beautiful music. Even when he was hurting me, I saw his brilliance. Know what that makes me? A martyr, a victim and a moron.

the house. My inheritance facilitated it.

he hates kids 

go fish.

I would love it if some other woman would love him. He deserves it. He really does.

But when I tell him love isn’t easy. Marriage is work, he looks at me like I’m crazy.


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## grayhound (Jan 18, 2011)

QuietRiot said:


> But obviously he’s not happy about this situation and pushes you for more. Interesting he holds the house over your head as a means to keep you around... and sounds very passive aggressive.
> 
> If he was willing to have a marriage of convenience and friendship to share the house that’s one thing, but he sounds like he wants more and throws little tantrums to get his way. I would question the behavior as well, sometimes it’s too late. Even if it is authentic.
> 
> How does being walked in on make you not shower? I love how everything is someone else’s fault. Just wash your ass dude!


He gets argumentative over nothing. He used to love to debate. I’d hear him in his office yelling at his coworkers, the door would open, I’d expect a red-faced, upset, frazzled dude to come out... he’d run to the kitchen for a soda and hop back in. But years later he said he was full of anxiety & felt he was a people pleaser the whole time. But, the guy in the meeting yelling at...? Who was that? Oscar winning performance!! Ironically, I was attracted to that smart a** and loved how no nonsense he was. Isn’t that unfortunate.

He might just be a contrarian, he might just have to “win”. The therapist blames his parents and he would come to me and say “I was just a sad little boy looking for unconditional love and became a huge people pleaser.” What? Where? From whom? I am so confused. He did not lift a finger. He ditched out on all house duties. He did zero favors for anyone. He literally never answered his phone. How do you please people that you don’t talk to? He said his boss? I don’t know where the stories came from. They all seem made up? Like, the sensitive new guy is a multiple personality junkie? I’m not sure.

anyway... lord, I sound like such an idiot to put up with this. For the record, he is super funny, wicked smart and we talk about the world, art, film etc for hours upon hours. Always enjoyable. Anything past the point of friendship... talk of refinancing the house etc. pure stress. My birthday? Omg, pure anxiety & pressure! We need to hire a fix it guy? He hates meatheads!!! I am not a princess. I own power tools & know how to fix everything. I just feel crazy. This relationship has made me crazy.

thanks for listening. I’m just exhausted and my head is spinning.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Have you seen a lawyer? Make sure you tell them that your inheritance went into the house. Insist on the house being sold - no point in his lazy ass reaping the benefits of your hard work. His entitled princess days are over.


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## NotSure74 (May 26, 2020)

grayhound said:


> He gets argumentative over nothing. He used to love to debate. I’d hear him in his office yelling at his coworkers, the door would open, I’d expect a red-faced, upset, frazzled dude to come out... he’d run to the kitchen for a soda and hop back in. But years later he said he was full of anxiety & felt he was a people pleaser the whole time. But, the guy in the meeting yelling at...? Who was that? Oscar winning performance!! Ironically, I was attracted to that smart a** and loved how no nonsense he was. Isn’t that unfortunate.
> 
> He might just be a contrarian, he might just have to “win”. The therapist blames his parents and he would come to me and say “I was just a sad little boy looking for unconditional love and became a huge people pleaser.” What? Where? From whom? I am so confused. He did not lift a finger. He ditched out on all house duties. He did zero favors for anyone. He literally never answered his phone. How do you please people that you don’t talk to? He said his boss? I don’t know where the stories came from. They all seem made up? Like, the sensitive new guy is a multiple personality junkie? I’m not sure.
> 
> ...


I hope all the best for you. I totally get it.❤


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

grayhound said:


> Also, my husband is getting in touch with his own emotions. He is going to a therapist to undo his childhood. Yes, he is trying to connect with me. But it doesn’t feel authentic. That’s why I feel manipulated. Something isn’t right.


He is good at problem sets...
He is being coached, he remembers what it is he needs to do.

It is his intelligence that he is employing, not his heart.
There are no intelligent hearts.

Reason is not a heart's strength.
It's strength is that irrepressible, beating desire.


_King Brian-_


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