# What is the big deal with oral?



## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

Intercourse is painful for her so I compromise and ask for giving her oral instead. She says she doesn't like receiving (nor giving, which I am not even requesting). She just needs to lie back, relax, close her eyes and imagine she's on a beautiful beach. Just how hard is this??? 
And yes, we love each other deeply.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Why is intercourse painful? 

Some women don't enjoy oral, personally I don't get it. I love it. 

I had hang ups, couldn't let myself enjoy it. Felt weird, guilty, pressured to O quick so he didn't have to do it long (even though he loved it and told me he could do it all day) 

For me, because my bf is a Dom he had an easy solution which was "order" me to let him do it as long as he said. Tie me up if he had to and it was no longer my choice. 
And then I let go and enjoyed and I've been enjoying ever since. 
He joked that he'd get me to the point where I'd ask for it (when before I was a "no, it's ok. You don't have to") and he did. 😊

Would she be willing to try just one night. You call the shots? Start with a nice massage, brushing up against the fun bits but then back to the rest of her. Eventually more time in the sexual areas. Then kissing the top all the way down to the bottom and back up. Until finally getting to oral? Don't make the goal being an O. Lots of teasing, make love with your mouth, I say. No weird cat drinking milk movements or direct clitoral focus the whole time. Make out with it, like you're a teen at the drive in. Some women can't ever have direct clit pressure so go around and above and below. 

Oral can be .... weird... if someone is just going right down there to start it off with a bang. I need to be turned on first before going down on me. It's not like a man at all where you can start with a non erect penis and go from start to finish with just a Bj. 

If she can give you one night where you call the shots and you make it amazing, maybe you can flip her switch a bit.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

If you are not married, leave now. So many men marry women not into sex and live to regret it. Cheating, online romances, posting complaints about their wives and ultimately, unhappiness or a porn addiction. I have had a great sex life both before and during my 45 years of marriage. My wife brought home girls to join us in bed and shared her longtime girlfriend with me for 30 years. My wife has tried every fetish that I asked her too. Does it all; anal, vaginal, receiving and giving oral, threesomes, wife swapping, soft swinging and doing all those things guys put into their bucket lists. You will never see me complaining online or having to find women to fulfill my sexual needs.

True story: I was engaged to my girlfriend of 4 years starting when I was 15. We did not get sexual until the last two years. She wanted sex a lot but never was able to orgasm. So she cheated on me and then the next guy and her husband and is now married to a woman for 23 years. She finally found someone she could orgasm with. My life would have not been as wonderful as it is had she not cheated and me refusing to try to make it work. After that, if the woman was not sexually adventurous and orgasmed easily, I went on to the next girl. I usually had 2 girlfriends all the time so if one did not work out, the other usually did.

Sex is very important in a relationship. It releases Oxytocin which emotionally bonds couples together. Without it, say goodbye to your intimacy and feeling of being emotionally connected to your partner.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

bilbag said:


> Intercourse is painful for her so I compromise and ask for giving her oral instead. She says she doesn't like receiving (nor giving, which I am not even requesting). She just needs to lie back, relax, close her eyes and imagine she's on a beautiful beach. Just how hard is this???
> And yes, we love each other deeply.




I have know a lot of women but never one that did not like receiving oral. Something here is amiss


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Why is intercourse painful?
> 
> Some women don't enjoy oral, personally I don't get it. I love it.
> 
> ...


what's wrong cat drinking milk style?  She has hangups, like you did. She's feeling no desire for any sex, she thinks getting close to 50yrold is the right time to stop. But she has to put out in some manner. I can be amazing but she cannot appreciate my amazingness. Not sure what her hangup is. We're married, have kids, and been together for 23yrs.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

bilbag said:


> what's wrong cat drinking milk style?  She has hangups, like you did. She's feeling no desire for any sex, she thinks getting close to 50yrold is the right time to stop. But she has to put out in some manner. I can be amazing but she cannot appreciate my amazingness. Not sure what her hangup is. We're married, have kids, and been together for 23yrs.


Some women may like the cat style. I don't. I like making out with my vagina style. Flat, soft tongue, going all over, gentle sucking, not too much direct clit focus. 

My problem was that the second I'd get in my head, my O progress went back to 0. 

Things would be going fine and then "oh, geez that was a weird noise I made" and back to 0. And back up again and "crap he changed body positions. He's getting tired. I need to speed up" and back to 0. 

I was also embarrassed about my vagina, felt I'd take too long and be too complicated to O. Felt I was needing too much to require foreplay before oral. 

I just needed out of my head. 

Is there anything she does enjoy? Toys? Fingers?


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> If you are not married, leave now. So many men marry women not into sex and live to regret it. Cheating, online romances, posting complaints about their wives and ultimately, unhappiness or a porn addiction. I have had a great sex life both before and during my 45 years of marriage. My wife brought home girls to join us in bed and shared her longtime girlfriend with me for 30 years. My wife has tried every fetish that I asked her too. Does it all; anal, vaginal, receiving and giving oral, threesomes, wife swapping, soft swinging and doing all those things guys put into their bucket lists. You will never see me complaining online or having to find women to fulfill my sexual needs.
> 
> True story: I was engaged to my girlfriend of 4 years starting when I was 15. We did not get sexual until the last two years. She wanted sex a lot but never was able to orgasm. So she cheated on me and then the next guy and her husband and is now married to a woman for 23 years. She finally found someone she could orgasm with. My life would have not been as wonderful as it is had she not cheated. After that, if the woman was not sexually adventurous and orgasmed easily, I went on to the next girl. I usually had 2 girlfriends all the time so if one did not work out, the other usually did.
> 
> Sex is very important in a relationship. It releases Oxytocin which emotionally bonds couples together. Without it, say goodbye to your intimacy and feeling of being emotionally connected to your partner.


I can get by with a cupful of oxytocin, although a bucket would be exciting. We're in love so it's not possible to leave for a mismatch in sexual desire. She used to desire sex more than me.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

David51 said:


> bilbag said:
> 
> 
> > Intercourse is painful for her so I compromise and ask for giving her oral instead. She says she doesn't like receiving (nor giving, which I am not even requesting). She just needs to lie back, relax, close her eyes and imagine she's on a beautiful beach. Just how hard is this???
> ...


I can imagine a small percentage of women not liking oral. But why not do it anyway to please spouse? It costs only an orgasm. It can save a marriage.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Is she worried that if she lets you do oral you'll eventually expect her to? 

To me that would be very fair of you but if she's totally against giving she might refuse taking just so she never has to give.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh and OP- I never got that some men just love giving oral. To me I always felt like it was something they did to be giving and nice but not something they did for themselves. 

It took a while before that shifted in me. 

I'm still shocked when a man offers just giving me oral for their own pleasure. Nothing in return, they just want to do it.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

bilbag said:


> I can imagine a small percentage of women not liking oral. But why not do it anyway to please spouse? It costs only an orgasm. It can save a marriage.


Why are you asking us this question? It is the one you should ask your wife if you are so adamant about it. "It can save a marriage" IOW you are saying if it doesn't happen, it could ruin your marriage. This sounds like a discussion you need to have with her. You keep saying you both "love each other" but it doesn't sound like she loves you enough to try something new and wants to give up sex altogether just because she is 50 years old. Apparently she doesn't understand that it is still important to you, and I assume you are nearly the same age.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Oh and OP- I never got that some men just love giving oral. To me I always felt like it was something they did to be giving and nice but not something they did for themselves.
> 
> It took a while before that shifted in me.
> 
> I'm still shocked when a man offers just giving me oral for their own pleasure. Nothing in return, they just want to do it.


I have orgasmed solely by getting my partner off thru oral. I have heard women say the same thing about giving head.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Oh and OP- I never got that some men just love giving oral. To me I always felt like it was something they did to be giving and nice but not something they did for themselves.
> 
> It took a while before that shifted in me.
> 
> I'm still shocked when a man offers just giving me oral for their own pleasure. Nothing in return, they just want to do it.


I would want more than oral. That's for sure. But I am trying to compromise. You should not be that shocked that a man would be wanting to give oral. It's fun and fulfilling to be with a naked woman.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Why are you asking us this question? It is the one you should ask your wife if you are so adamant about it. "It can save a marriage" IOW you are saying if it doesn't happen, it could ruin your marriage. This sounds like a discussion you need to have with her. You keep saying you both "love each other" but it doesn't sound like she loves you enough to try something new and wants to give up sex altogether just because she is 50 years old. Apparently she doesn't understand that it is still important to you, and I assume you are nearly the same age.


I've asked many times and her answer is that she doesn't like it. Obviously that isn't a good enough answer for me. A marriage without intimacy is difficult. I am throwing out this question here to see if someone has a reason to refuse her husband an oral.
Does her unwillingness to accept receiving oral mean she doesn't love me enough? I don't think so. I think she is different and not sexual. She has a problem and I would like to help her improve on that. Without intimacy in marriage, it may fail. She feels different and doesn't think sex is necessary at this stage of our lives. 
To get a religious perspective, I asked a priest whether it is against Catholic teaching to have sex at this stage and he said having sex for unity is good but probably if we turn 90 it would not be possible. Otherwise she should not refuse. My wife doesn't agree.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Will she give you a hand job? Or hold you as you masterbate .

Or does she just want no part of sexual intamacy.

Have a come to jesus talk with her. Tell her you love her and want to have a sexual relationship with her and that maybe with compromise and a loving generous attitude about meeting eachothers needs anything can be managed.

Suggest going to a good dr or sex therapist.


But if she refuses to compromise then you have a tough choice live in a nonsexual marriage or make this your reason to leave.

You could ask if she minds you finding a friend


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bilbag said:


> what's wrong cat drinking milk style?  She has hangups, like you did. She's feeling no desire for any sex, she thinks getting close to 50yrold is the right time to stop. But she has to put out in some manner. I can be amazing but she cannot appreciate my amazingness. Not sure what her hangup is. We're married, have kids, and been together for 23yrs.


*I'm telling you that I so absolutely love doing oral on the lady I love, and who loves me so much, that if the Lord absolutely had to call me home, could He please let me fastidiously perform a near nonstop episode of oral on her the night before!

I'm here to tell you that people who willingly retard themselves from performing oral on their lover just don't have the first damned clue what it is that they're missing out on!

That loving act of unselfishness accentuates committed love far better than anything that I know!*


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

bilbag said:


> Intercourse is painful for her so I compromise and ask for giving her oral instead. She says she doesn't like receiving (nor giving, which I am not even requesting). She just needs to lie back, relax, close her eyes and imagine she's on a beautiful beach. Just how hard is this???
> And yes, we love each other deeply.


Vulnerability.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

bilbag said:


> I've asked many times and her answer is that she doesn't like it. Obviously that isn't a good enough answer for me. A marriage without intimacy is difficult. I am throwing out this question here to see if someone has a reason to refuse her husband an oral.
> Does her unwillingness to accept receiving oral mean she doesn't love me enough? I don't think so. I think she is different and not sexual. She has a problem and I would like to help her improve on that. Without intimacy in marriage, it may fail. She feels different and doesn't think sex is necessary at this stage of our lives.
> To get a religious perspective, I asked a priest whether it is against Catholic teaching to have sex at this stage and he said having sex for unity is good but probably if we turn 90 it would not be possible. Otherwise she should not refuse. My wife doesn't agree.


Ok you've asked that question but have you asked her if she realizes that withholding sex is possibly going to destroy your marriage. And I would probably leave the word probably out of the question altogether. I guess what I should have said is, this is a conversation you need to have with your wife. Does she understand YOUR concerns? Does she understand that regardless of what she imagines, THIS is important to you and that she is putting everything you have created together at risk. BTW your priest is wrong - age is just a number and as long as their is a will (to have sex) there is a way. Age has nothing to do with it. But then I have never understood why anyone would seek and follow the sexual advice of someone who has taken a vow of celibacy. That is like asking a teetotaler for advice about how to make a mixed drink - how would they know?


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

bilbag said:


> I would want more than oral. That's for sure. But I am trying to compromise. You should not be that shocked that a man would be wanting to give oral. It's fun and fulfilling to be with a naked woman.




And there it is. SEX is supposed to be FUN! When it becomes a chore for one spouse or the other then something is drastically wrong. 
That being said why would you marry a woman or a man that disliked oral sex if you love it?


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Just because you don't like her reason doesn't mean it's not a valid reason. You're just not listening. She doesn't like it. Unless she sees this as a problem she wants to overcome, there is nothing you can do that will change her mind. No one here will have magic words that will suddenly make her see this your way.

The problem is now yours. Are you willing to change to accommodate her lack of sexual desire/function?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

David51 said:


> bilbag said:
> 
> 
> > Intercourse is painful for her so I compromise and ask for giving her oral instead. She says she doesn't like receiving (nor giving, which I am not even requesting). She just needs to lie back, relax, close her eyes and imagine she's on a beautiful beach. Just how hard is this???
> ...


What? You are very much uninformed, then. Lots of women are not that in to receiving oral. 

I'm not one of them, but I know personally many women who aren't and we hear stories from men here every day about their wives who aren't into it. If you don't already know this, you need to expand your knowledge base rather than claim there is something amiss.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Personally, I would be lightly trying to identify why intercourse is painful. That is sort of a big deal.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Vulnerability.


Ok, but vulnerability in a marriage is not a bad thing. Just like dependence and need. If I could do everything myself, why get married.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Personally, I would be lightly trying to identify why intercourse is painful. That is sort of a big deal.


Yes, I am not giving up on that front. Someone suggested using a lubrication called Sliquid. But I think it's her psyche that is making the act painful. She is naturally tense and won't relax. And she thinks I'm too laid back (lazy?).


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

David51 said:


> And there it is. SEX is supposed to be FUN! When it becomes a chore for one spouse or the other then something is drastically wrong.
> That being said why would you marry a woman or a man that disliked oral sex if you love it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I married her because we love each other. Oral is not a necessity. But sex of some nature seems to be. I'm not giving up on oral just yet. Why she just doesn't cooperate does not make sense to me. If it feels like a chore, then listen to music to make it interesting.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Your desire to get what you want is making you obtuse. Or maybe that's just how you are in general, I have no idea.

Maybe a bit of reversal will help you empathize. Let's imagine she is on an internet board complaining about her husband who continues to badger her for sex which she dislikes.

"I don't understand it. He clearly tells me he wants sex, but why can't he just cooperate and go masturbate somewhere? It makes no sense. If he doesn't feel fulfilled by masturbation, he can burn some incense to make it more interesting." Would you feel like she is listening to you?

Continuing to insist that she should simply allow you to perform oral on her because you want to is not only insensitive but will probably make the situation worse. Honestly, I find it creepy that you would even want to perform this act on someone who would have to distract herself with music to tolerate it. How do you think she will feel? Do you even care?

You can't force someone to like sex. You can pressure her, tell her it is her marital duty, wave the Bible in front of her, threaten to get your "milk" somewhere else, etc. It may get you some level of compliance but it won't make her like it. It will most likely make her aversion sharpen and deepen. And not just about the sex itself. There is a pretty good chance she was a victim of sexual abuse at some point in her past. The more your pressure her to "just give in and do it" the more she will equate you with her abuser. 

Unless she wants to improve the situation and is willing to work on it, it's not her problem. It's yours. As I wrote earlier, if she refuses to work on it you will have to decide if you are willing to modify YOUR needs to better match her ability/willingness to meet them. Or you can just continue to pressure her to do things that she has an aversion to. Any guess how that will work out in the long run?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

bilbag said:


> Yes, I am not giving up on that front. Someone suggested using a lubrication called Sliquid. But I think it's her psyche that is making the act painful. She is naturally tense and won't relax. And she thinks I'm too laid back (lazy?).


Relaxation beforehand will be a big need in foreplay then. A candlelit bubble bath together, a massage, very slow and drawn out foreplay until she can relax and get in the mood before you even touch the sexy bits. 
Some women take a good 30 minutes of non-vaginal touching foreplay before you get to that portion of things. The non-vaginal part it important. Don't go there until she is fully turned on and ready. If she feels you are trying to rush things along to get to the vagina and sex stuff it can ruin the mood.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

zookeeper said:


> Continuing to insist that she should simply allow you to perform oral on her because you want to is not only insensitive but will probably make the situation worse. Honestly, I find it creepy that you would even want to perform this act on someone who would have to distract herself with music to tolerate it. How do you think she will feel? Do you even care?


This...

Look, my wife enjoys oral sex, she O's from it, etc. But she wants nothing to do with it as a stand-alone act. Why this is, I don't know, and it's not for me to understand, or try to change. I've been able to do it several times over the years, and she enjoys it, O's, and is happy afterwards (as am I).

In my head, I can't make heads or tails of it. Why wouldn't she want this? Why wouldn't anybody want this?

The answer is - it doesn't matter, and it's not for me to try and change.

OP, you sir, have deeper problems with sex in your marriage than your wife simply not wanting oral sex. I highly suggest you work on those other issues. She's been clear in her lack of interest with this, so it's not beneficial to anyone to continue down that road - at this point.

Your issue is you have a wife who is convinced that sex after such-and-such an age is completely unimportant, and as a result, has closed up shop mentally AND physically, it seems. To the point where she's disagreeing with your pastor or priest.

A good place to start is with a visit to her doctor. It's entirely possible she's pre-menopausal, or right into it at this point. Hormones change drastically at that time (occasionally for the better, but not in this case it seems). Her doctor can point her in the right direction.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

zookeeper said:


> Your desire to get what you want is making you obtuse. Or maybe that's just how you are in general, I have no idea.
> 
> Maybe a bit of reversal will help you empathize. Let's imagine she is on an internet board complaining about her husband who continues to badger her for sex which she dislikes.
> 
> ...


I don't force her to have sex. She would divorce me very quickly if that were so. And desire has to come from her to make sex good. I'm not after bad sex. She has not mentioned any sexual abuse in her past, and I doubt she has any. She is lacking in desire and her close friends feel similarly to her that sex at their age is undesirable and normal. She enjoyed sex in our earlier years. I'm hoping her lack in desire is only a phase.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Relaxation beforehand will be a big need in foreplay then. A candlelit bubble bath together, a massage, very slow and drawn out foreplay until she can relax and get in the mood before you even touch the sexy bits.
> Some women take a good 30 minutes of non-vaginal touching foreplay before you get to that portion of things. The non-vaginal part it important. Don't go there until she is fully turned on and ready. If she feels you are trying to rush things along to get to the vagina and sex stuff it can ruin the mood.


Unfortunately she keeps the cat litter box in the bathtub. 
I offer massages daily but she doesn't take advantage. She thinks it will lead to sex or that she owes me something. I would love to take our time and relax though. I love her body, she's very attractive.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

bilbag said:


> Ok, but vulnerability *in a marriage* is not a bad thing. Just like dependence and need. If I could do everything myself, why get married.


What about just feeling vulnerable as a person? If this is who you are normally at bed time:

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/5c/1d/d5/5c1dd5490eaa4a44b83a716bbb2c4bbe--night-gown-ballet.jpg

And someone wants to put their face in between your legs where you have learned is yucky, smelly and generally a place god wants no one to go, it feels vulnerable. I am not saying THAT is the root cause for your wife. But there are reasons that a PERSON might feel vulnerable that comes before the "in marriage" part. Showing up on one's wedding day does not cast that aside. 

I remember many decades ago resisting oral. His interest in hot bootie was not yet mine. I was still in making NUUUUB space. When he did oral, his head was no where near me. I could not touch him or be close to him. He was just too far away. For us, the solution was over time. He was able to help me get comfortable with my body in many other ways too, including just stroking... arms, shoulders and legs. If I was tense, he would stop. Look at me. Does that make you feel tense? Rinse and repeat until I could relax. It helped me touch him less mechanically too.

YMMV.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

bilbag said:


> I married her because we love each other. Oral is not a necessity. But sex of some nature seems to be. I'm not giving up on oral just yet. Why she just doesn't cooperate does not make sense to me. If it feels like a chore, then listen to music to make it interesting.




How old are you two?


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

49, 50


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *I'm telling you that I so absolutely love doing oral on the lady I love, and who loves me so much, that if the Lord absolutely had to call me home, could He please let me fastidiously perform a near nonstop episode of oral on her the night before!
> 
> I'm here to tell you that people who willingly retard themselves from performing oral on their lover just don't have the first damned clue what it is that they're missing out on!
> 
> That loving act of unselfishness accentuates committed love far better than anything that I know!*


Giving is unselfish. I'm also wondering if it is also selfish because I enjoy it more than her.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> Will she give you a hand job? Or hold you as you masterbate .
> 
> Or does she just want no part of sexual intamacy.
> 
> ...


Yeah, she is offering a hand job when she hits 50. That sounds insufficient. 
I told her a priest I spoke with said sex is good for unity, even until we hit 90. He said for me to bear the problem we are having and pray. She said she has been praying as well. That my member won't go up and I will no longer desire sex. I wanted to strangle her, but we laughed. And had sex instead. That was punishment...


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## sputniksweettart (Sep 19, 2017)

I've come to believe a healthy relationship urges both partners toward happily connecting to one another's desires—both sexually and otherwise.

Despite having daily sex with me, my wife began treating sex like a mission, or a task, where once it was over it was galloping to the shower and getting on with whatever she was doing next.

Instead of stepping back and analyzing why she wouldn't always let herself float freely in the pool of intimacy with me, I chastised her for her inability to engage. I expected her to figure out the problem, when the problem was actually a seemingly-unrelated stack of rocks that we both had put there. Since filing for divorce she has let me know that my criticisms of her ability to connect with me had accumulated to the point where she associated sex with a crushing burden of pressure to perform, and by trying to take shortcuts to a perfect sex life I ruined my chances of getting there for foreseeable future.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bilbag said:


> *Giving is unselfish. I'm also wondering if it is also selfish because I enjoy it more than her.  *


*Friend! Don't we all?*


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Acts 20:35. Its more blessed to give than receive. I don't think that's what they meant though.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> Acts 20:35. Its more blessed to give than receive. I don't think that's what they meant though.


Sure it is! Giving is giving.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

bilbag said:


> I married her because we love each other. Oral is not a necessity. But sex of some nature seems to be. I'm not giving up on oral just yet. Why she just doesn't cooperate does not make sense to me. If it feels like a chore, then listen to music to make it interesting.


You really sound like a damned fool. Your attitude that she should 'just cooperate' makes ME cringe, so I can certainly understand why she's been avoiding you. Ugh.

It sounds as though she's in Peri-menopause which can create physical changes to her body due to Estrogen loss, and cause pain during intercourse due to lack of lubrication and/or thinning of her vaginal tissue. It would also explain her current lack of desire to have sex.at all - whether it's oral or anything else. 

The more you push your nasty agenda that she just needs to cooperate, the more undesirable you become to her.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You really sound like a damned fool. Your attitude that she should 'just cooperate' makes ME cringe, so I can certainly understand why she's been avoiding you. Ugh.
> 
> It sounds as though she's in Peri-menopause which can create physical changes to her body due to Estrogen loss, and cause pain during intercourse due to lack of lubrication and/or thinning of her vaginal tissue. It would also explain her current lack of desire to have sex.at all - whether it's oral or anything else.
> 
> The more you push your nasty agenda that she just needs to cooperate, the more undesirable you become to her.


This is OP's frustration coming out, so take it with a grain of salt. Often, the written word does not accurately portray what is trying to be put across.

I don't get the impression that what he is saying here, in writing, is how things are being discussed between the two of them. Likely, it is much more gentle and communicative. This is simply OP venting.

Besides, he has a point, IMO. If sex was 'normal' for as long as it was, and now it is regarded as something that "people my age don't do" by his wife - yikes.

I fully agree, though, that this is probably menopause-related, and that a doctors appointment should be made. Sounds like the hormones are out of whack, which is very normal, I might add. It can be dealt with.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> Acts 20:35. Its more blessed to give than receive. I don't think that's what they meant though.


 In my situation, I receive tenfold more than what I give. So you are correct.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You really sound like a damned fool. Your attitude that she should 'just cooperate' makes ME cringe, so I can certainly understand why she's been avoiding you. Ugh.
> 
> It sounds as though she's in Peri-menopause which can create physical changes to her body due to Estrogen loss, and cause pain during intercourse due to lack of lubrication and/or thinning of her vaginal tissue. It would also explain her current lack of desire to have sex.at all - whether it's oral or anything else.
> 
> The more you push your nasty agenda that she just needs to cooperate, the more undesirable you become to her.


 I don't push my nasty agenda!  I'm just nudging a little. She thinks she is in perimenopause stage as well. But it's not only hormones she is dealing with. She just thinks it's unnecessary at our age to be having sex. She stated she wants to bury our sex life. Voila! That makes me cringe. But I prefer not to worry about it until it vanishes. Hopefully it doesn't though. 
If your husband asks for sex and you don't feel like it, would you have sex with him? Would you cooperate?


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

alexm said:


> This is OP's frustration coming out, so take it with a grain of salt. Often, the written word does not accurately portray what is trying to be put across.
> 
> I don't get the impression that what he is saying here, in writing, is how things are being discussed between the two of them. Likely, it is much more gentle and communicative. This is simply OP venting.
> 
> ...


yes, I definitely talk more gently to my wife. Otherwise she won't agree to sex once a week. If i ask for more, she says she starts getting hives.
I enjoy having a 'normal' sex life with her. It would be devastating if it ends.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bilbag said:


> Giving is unselfish. I'm also wondering if it is also selfish because I enjoy it more than her.


*To succinctly answer your question, "No, it is not!" Oral sex between a loving man and woman is not selfish in any way!" By refusing or rejecting to lovingly consent, other than for some occasional medical rationales which might possibly prevent its performance, at least in my book, that denial of such is nothing more than a selfish or a fearful act, in and of itself!

It is by design supposed to be an act that is simply lovingly natural and human!

And for the record, "oral sex is not a nasty agenda" ~ in and of itself, it is naturally supposed to be a very loving and binding one!*


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

bilbag said:


> Giving is unselfish. I'm also wondering if it is also selfish because I enjoy it more than her.


Ah, it's a slippery slope, this.

While technically it's "giving", if she doesn't want it, then it's only for your benefit.

It took me a few years to wrap my head around it, as my wife doesn't want standalone oral sex on her, while I would thoroughly enjoy it. As part of foreplay, she's right into it.

I still don't _understand_, but it's her life and her body. She doesn't feel like she's missing out on anything, and that's her prerogative. I'm sure there are some women (and a lot of men) out there who have the exact opposite problem, and wish their spouse would give them standalone oral sex. Oh well.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

At 49, your wife is only a few years older than me. The thought that my sex life should end simply because of approaching 50 is literally a foreign, depressing concept. IMO sex becomes even more vital, and revitalizing. It is a means of staying healthy, both physically and emotionally. At midlife you're old enough to know what you both enjoy, get over insecurities, experiment and have fun. I have read that some cultures however, do believe that sex past a certain age (generally 50) is unnecessary, unwanted, and well, over. Is this possibly the norm amongst your wife's culture? Do you share backgrounds? 

You mentioned once upon a time your wife desired sex even more than you, therefore try to determine why intercourse is painful now, at the YOUNG age of 49. Encourage her to see her doctor. There is treatment. It may be hormonal. As for "what the big deal is with oral"...I'm not sure how to make your wife like something that she has never(?) enjoyed. Never, is that correct? It may be religious, cultural, she may feel vulnerable, pressured and therefore annoyed, etc.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bilbag said:


> Yes, I am not giving up on that front. Someone suggested using a lubrication called Sliquid. But I think it's her psyche that is making the act painful. She is naturally tense and won't relax. And she thinks I'm too laid back (lazy?).


*By the very same token, do you and your wife ever share a carafe of good wine or a libation prior to dimming the bedroom lights for any sexual activity?

It could be that she doesn't like to perform oral right out in the openness of daylight and would greatly prefer doing it either by candlelight or off in the sanctity of a darkened room or by wearing a blindfold! 

Conversely, does she ever have any inherent problems in the performance of oral on you?

*


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

alexm said:


> Ah, it's a slippery slope, this.
> 
> While technically it's "giving", if she doesn't want it, then it's only for your benefit.



It is like the stereotypical drill for a birthday present.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Does anyone else find it ironic that the post is titled "What is the big deal with oral," but it's only the OP who seems to be making a big deal out of it?


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

alexm said:


> Ah, it's a slippery slope, this.
> 
> While technically it's "giving", if she doesn't want it, then it's only for your benefit.
> 
> ...


My post is about cooperation, compromise and willingly giving. I make the assumption here at TAM that sex is important in marriage. She wants to end intercourse. I offer to give oral. She says no. How many other forms of sex is there? (OK, I know one other but not that either.) I think it's a good deal, a win-win situation (or lose-lose).


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

sputniksweettart said:


> I've come to believe a healthy relationship urges both partners toward happily connecting to one another's desires—both sexually and otherwise.
> 
> Despite having daily sex with me, my wife began treating sex like a mission, or a task, where once it was over it was galloping to the shower and getting on with whatever she was doing next.
> 
> Instead of stepping back and analyzing why she wouldn't always let herself float freely in the pool of intimacy with me, I chastised her for her inability to engage. I expected her to figure out the problem, when the problem was actually a seemingly-unrelated stack of rocks that we both had put there. Since filing for divorce she has let me know that my criticisms of her ability to connect with me had accumulated to the point where she associated sex with a crushing burden of pressure to perform, and by trying to take shortcuts to a perfect sex life I ruined my chances of getting there for foreseeable future.


I agree with you. I don't criticize my spouse for her lack of desire. But I ask that we do have sex once a week. From that, I hope to analyze how we can find a happy medium. Divorce is not what we want.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Ok you've asked that question but have you asked her if she realizes that withholding sex is possibly going to destroy your marriage. And I would probably leave the word probably out of the question altogether. I guess what I should have said is, this is a conversation you need to have with your wife. Does she understand YOUR concerns? Does she understand that regardless of what she imagines, THIS is important to you and that she is putting everything you have created together at risk. BTW your priest is wrong - age is just a number and as long as their is a will (to have sex) there is a way. Age has nothing to do with it. But then I have never understood why anyone would seek and follow the sexual advice of someone who has taken a vow of celibacy. That is like asking a teetotaler for advice about how to make a mixed drink - how would they know?


My wife understands that she is putting our marriage at risk. 
I spoke to a priest because he listens and offers advice. Catholicism has been around for 2000 years. Hopefully the priests hearing abundant confessions have learned much and know something about keeping marriages together. I read 1/3 of Catholic marriages divorce, while national average is 1/2.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

bilbag said:


> My post is about cooperation, compromise and willingly giving. I make the assumption here at TAM that sex is important in *marriage*. She wants to end intercourse. I offer to give oral. She says no. How many other forms of sex is there? (OK, I know one other but not that either.) I think it's a good deal, a win-win situation (or lose-lose).


Apparently, it is not important in HER marriage. That seems more important to untangle than some abstract about "marriage".


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## Old and tired (Sep 18, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Some women may like the cat style. I don't. I like making out with my vagina style. Flat, soft tongue, going all over, gentle sucking, not too much direct clit focus.


I'd have to second this. Your problem may be technique. This may be TMI, but my husband also loves to give and gets a little too overzealous at times and needs a little redirection. It also takes a bit more time to get relaxed and warmed up for oral.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

bilbag said:


> My post is about cooperation, compromise and willingly giving. I make the assumption here at TAM that sex is important in marriage. She wants to end intercourse. I offer to give oral. She says no. *How many other forms of sex is there?* (OK, I know one other but not that either.) I think it's a good deal, a win-win situation (or lose-lose).


Seriously? You only know two types of 'sex' acts? I'm beginning to see why your wife has shut down. Have you considered Sensate Focus or Tantric sex or body to body massages or dry humping or boob jobs or any of the other forms of non penetrative sex out there?

Your lack of imagination combined with your hyperfocus on giving her oral sex is killing the possibility of intimacy in your relationship. 


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Phoenix 1962 (Sep 27, 2017)

Ynot said:


> I have orgasmed solely by getting my partner off thru oral. I have heard women say the same thing about giving head.


My wife had never experienced it before I gave it to her. I wasn't great at it at first because I hadn't done it much. After a time it's become as intimate and enjoyable as intercourse for me. And she ALWAYS comes, which is incredible for both of us. I couldn't imagine sex without it now.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

Don't Panic said:


> At 49, your wife is only a few years older than me. The thought that my sex life should end simply because of approaching 50 is literally a foreign, depressing concept. IMO sex becomes even more vital, and revitalizing. It is a means of staying healthy, both physically and emotionally. At midlife you're old enough to know what you both enjoy, get over insecurities, experiment and have fun. I have read that some cultures however, do believe that sex past a certain age (generally 50) is unnecessary, unwanted, and well, over. Is this possibly the norm amongst your wife's culture? Do you share backgrounds?
> 
> You mentioned once upon a time your wife desired sex even more than you, therefore try to determine why intercourse is painful now, at the YOUNG age of 49. Encourage her to see her doctor. There is treatment. It may be hormonal. As for "what the big deal is with oral"...I'm not sure how to make your wife like something that she has never(?) enjoyed. Never, is that correct? It may be religious, cultural, she may feel vulnerable, pressured and therefore annoyed, etc.


Her views are influenced by her culture, Japanese, but she's been in US for 23yrs now. She was sexual at first and she even asked if her sexuality was too much. I think having kids took a lot of that away. She doesn't need it any more. But it looks to me like she enjoys it some. We've done oral at times, not much, and she did enjoy. She even asked 6 months ago that I stand up. And then she went on her knees and gave. After that, I can die and be happy. But I am still alive so I want more.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

Lila said:


> Seriously? You only know two types of 'sex' acts? I'm beginning to see why your wife has shut down. Have you considered Sensate Focus or Tantric sex or body to body massages or dry humping or boob jobs or any of the other forms of non penetrative sex out there?
> 
> Your lack of imagination combined with your hyperfocus on giving her oral sex is killing the possibility of intimacy in your relationship.
> 
> ...


Seriously? You think the average guy knows about things other than sports, porn and/or alcohol? 
Thanks for the suggestions. I've been low on ideas. I will do some research!


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *By the very same token, do you and your wife ever share a carafe of good wine or a libation prior to dimming the bedroom lights for any sexual activity?
> 
> It could be that she doesn't like to perform oral right out in the openness of daylight and would greatly prefer doing it either by candlelight or off in the sanctity of a darkened room or by wearing a blindfold!
> 
> ...


I want to get her drunk but she doesn't drink. She says her jaw gets tired when giving oral. She's not desiring sex of any kind at this point though. I asked why she's having sex weekly then. She said...Because you told me I was failing as a wife. 
(Oops, that came out of my mouth a while back from frustration. It's probably not true. Fortunately she hasn't given up on me.)


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> Apparently, it is not important in HER marriage. That seems more important to untangle than some abstract about "marriage".


Yes, you are correct. I actually have faith that we will make OUR marriage work out somehow, though uncertain how. We are happy despite irritating and testing each other a lot. We still listen and communicate well. She's too serious though.


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