# Newbie needs advice



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Hello, I have a big problem. I should start with some backround. My high school sweethart and I had a on off relationship in our teens. We both used to see other people a such, back then it wasnt that serious. We always argued about infidelity and slept with people out of revenge or just because and I never got too close out of fear of being too attached to a woman who liked to have more than one man. After e split she moved in with another guy. One day when he was out of town she came to see me and it happened to be the day we conceived our first child. I was 20 at the time. She was 18. In the yaers following we went on with our lives having minimal contact unless necessary for seeing my son. She was in a serious relationship and I got married. We somehow ended up together again after 7 years. I devorced my wife to be with her(no kids from the mairrage) as my ex was horrible and tried to keep me from being in my sons life out of jealousy or something. I figured I would be happier with my son and his mother. We had our second son on the way before I knew it. I will never regret having another child with her because they are my world and all that matters is that they are happy and raised right. Almost immediatley after he was born she started coming home very late like 3 to 5 am. saying she was with her friends or sister or that she was drunk and slept on a friends couch. I was enraged but we had a 4 month old baby and an 8 yr ols to raise so I held my course. Over time it became more frequent. She wouldnt take my calls while out saying she forgot the phone in the car or some other excuse. She sometimes just decided to go out and not tell me or take calls. I am home with my young kids every night and dont much enjoy the bar scene so I eventually became used to the behavior telling myself its normal for her to blow off steam with friends once a week. I never approved of it but had to live with it and without proof i had nothing to stand on. As you all know raising kids can put a damper on the sex life. She was sleeping on the couch for a year after our second child was born because she had some back problems and was more comfortable that way. After she decided to start sleeping in our bed again neither of us could sleep so I started to sleep on the couch, at least until late when I could move to the bed without waking her. Needless to say it affected our sex life greatly, and intimacy is at almost zero. On top of the seperate sleeping issue I have the late night outings on my mind all of the time. One night she came home late and horny and we had sex and slept great. In the morning she went to the bathroom and I looked at the phone. She had texted her ex of 7 yrs repeatedly telling, begging him to meet her at the bar. He declined. Another text to another man at 1 am (closing time) said "duty calls here" hes a state cop. Im no dummy and I know what that meant. I confronted her and she apoligized for the inappropriate texts and claimed to just want to talk to him and that it was a mistake. I grudgingly took the bait. 

That was 6 months ago. For over 4 yrs I have been seeing ramdon signs that to me are red flags
late nights out without me
not answering my calls
lying about location
lack of intrest in sex with me(once a month usually)
lack of intrest in our relationship
telling me to leave when she is angry
told me she doesnt feel love for me anymore
actualy served me with custody papers but changed her mind when she realised I would have the kids every week night.
constantly on phone and facebook
never leaves the phone even while sleeping or in the shower
accuses me of cheating when I confront her
makes mr feel guilty about questioning her

for the record shes no angel, she cheated on 3 of her ex BF with me over the course of 10 yrs and she was working as a stripper for most of the time that we were living seperatly. I love her and worry about the kids mostly, but I cant live with myself knowing Im just there to take care of the kids (she works till 930 pm)and pay her bills. I want proof, and have considered the smart phone spy stuff. Do I really want to know? should i try to get primary custody and leave her? I would rather have a happy family but after reading this forum most of my suspicions have been confirmed. My gut says im an idiot.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

You have to decide for yourself. What if you find out that she's cheating. Will you leave her, or will you just feel bad for knowing? If you'll leave her, then investigate and you will probably find out pretty quickly. I think she is cheating.

Given that she cheated with you, multiple times, it seems unlikely that she is ready to adopt a mature attitude about her commitments to her family.

Good luck.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

For the record, she has been home now because of a work injury for 3 weeks. Im not used to her being there all the time. She goes out still saying she needs alone time. I basically know what is going to happen to our family and she is being absolutley rude and mean to me every day. I started drinking every night. I usually only drink on weekends. Now I feel like in order to deal with her evilness towards me and not fight in front of my kids that I need to be drunk. I know its a huge mistake but Im exhausted from the years of limbo(forum vocab) and from her recent hostility. I try to initiate serious conversation, about us in general not infidelity, every evening for the last 2 weeks. She claims shes done with me because of an arguement she had with my sister, but I think shes just avoiding the bigger problems. She cant speak to me for more than 5 mins without walking away or yelling at me. Im at the breaking point. 

Im sorry this is so long winded but its been inside me for 4 years and finally I feel like someone here will get it and maybe I can get better advice from people who went through it. Ive considered every possible scenario even living together for the kids sake and financial reasons but not being together. That only works if we both stay single. I still love her in some way but I think trying to get a fair custody agreement might be alot better than living with an unloving woman who lies and cheats. Its the hardest decision I have ever had to make.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. If i catch her cheating i will leave her. But I wont abandon the family so it will be a long painfull process with the court while living together. I think im just looking for solid evidence so that I can leave her and know that I wasnt making a mistake. I honestly want to be wrong but that means nothing . I guess the phone spy thing would work, if i can get the damn thing out of her hand for a few.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Trust your gut... you're an idiot and she's cheating.

You know it. You can see it. You know what she is like, and you know what she will be like in the future. 

I'm one for marriage counseling but this girl is way to broken for that.


----------



## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm guessing you're young. Make preparations for divorce, a lot of people on here have some pretty good information in that regards.

Seriously, Brander, you can't possibly envision a healthy future with this woman. Run.


----------



## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Do you really need to know more? The way you describe it, the two of you doesn't sound like a couple - more like room mates (well, not that either, I guess).

Are you going to accept your life as it is now? Or would you like to see it change? If you would like to see change, do you feel confident that your wife/GF is going to change?


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

It seems very, very likely that she's cheating.

If you would rather continue without knowing - then don't look for evidence. There is nothing wrong with that - it's your life.

You might try "the 180" - basically living your life as though she isn't important to you - but it sounds like things have gone too far for that maybe.

Take care of yourself. You sound like you are more fed up about this than you might be admitting - even to yourself.

There is nothing wrong with feeling bad about a woman you love treating you badly.

People on here might tell it to you straight, but it's because many have been through the awful pain of betrayal and both understand and would want to avoid you feeling the same pain.

Take care.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You found text where she was begging two other guys to meet her at a bar (and it was not for drinks)

To answer your question - yes you are an idiot - but then again all men can be blinded by a commitment to a wife (even if they are a wife in name only) and family.

The real reason that you are an idiot is the drinking. Knock it off. What if there is an emergency with one of the kids while you are drunk and she is out having her fun? For that reason alone you should not touch alcohol.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

You know damm well she f0ck around endlessly. She did with you, she cheated on her BFF, she's cheating on you, she's not relationship material. At all.
Alone time = time away to f'ck around.

BTW you need to adress your own isses, you cheated on your wife, have been the OM, you keep going back to your serial cheater. Get out of this dysfuncional marriage and adress your issues. Become someone who can you be proud of, a better role model for your children.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Thank you everybody. Thanks for pure truth and for not making me wait for advice. Its odd how years of dealing with this can turn into a desperate quest for answers. I know in my heart she is ****. I need to clear up tue fact that ve only beej drinking every night because shesbeen home every night. Its been 3 weeks. Im sorry i dont have it in me to face the pain head on
Im weak and you are all right, an idiot. I realized that wanting something to be true doesnt make it true. I thought we were destined to be together. We were not and thats o.k. its all about my kids at this point. I do need to work on myself. I cheated on my ex wife but after i moved out we just werent officially divorced yet. Im drinking again right now in the parking lot of the liquor store. Shes at home being cold and mean. My kids are with her. I think working seperate shifts kept us together up till now
Im begining to feel like i deserve more. I own my own bussiness and im only 31, i make good money and im successful, women hit on me regularly and im a big strong attractive man. Ive been beaten down by the ice princess too long. I need to see my lawyer soon and make a plan. Until then im pulling the 180. You guys are awesome, thanks so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Im getting spybubble for the phone. Just so i can throw it in her face. Why not at least then i wont feel so guilty for leaving her. Im a mess and im self destructive right now. I actually feel releif thinking about my kids and i living away from her. Its for the better i think.not the ideal but we dont have that. Worse thing is admitting that i knew it would happen. I feel so ****ing dirty who k ows how many people have been with my woman. This site is the best thing ive ever found online. Im going home to sleep on my couch. Someday maybe ill be o.k. but right now life is a cluster****. Goodnight my friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Special thanks to acabado. Your words match the ones i truly think before love and kids get in the way of rational thought. You are a wise person indeed. Living with myself and respecting myself as a man, i could never respect a man in my situation. Even if it was for his kids sake. Thanks again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

We are not married, i had doubts from the start so.... let some other poor bastard marry her
Thats the only thing i did right was not get married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Simple rule, if you're not married, you have no reason to stay with her.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Simple rule, if you're not married, you have no reason to stay with her.


For my two kids my friend. I came from a single parent family and lived in poverty and lack of discipline my entire youth. My kids wont have the money problem bexause i will supoort them no matter what happens. But they need both parents and my 3 year old always wants both of us. Its hard knowing they will and already are dealing with some of the stuff i went through like brainwashing from her. Dealing with and acting out due to our consrant fighting. Seeing and hearing things they should never at this age see and hear. Living in seperate homes at different times. Dealing with new men and women in their lives, her using them to hurt me, court appearances and its just so damn complicated. Being married has very little to do with it. I was divorced at 26 with no kids and it was easy. Not being married but having multiple children is far more difficult and basically all the same rules apply. Maybe no alimony, the house is hers anyway left to her by grandparents. So its mostly just guilt about subjecting the kids to this. Not that its good for them now either. Im so beat, another shot and then surf this site till she vets off my couch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> Trust your gut... *you're an idiot and she's cheating.*
> 
> You know it. You can see it. You know what she is like, and you know what she will be like in the future.
> 
> I'm one for marriage counseling but this girl is way to broken for that.



OP respect yourself. Stop letting them play you the fool. Get out while you can. You broke your first marriage because of her. How long will you tolerate her being even questionable and how many more marriages will she break while being with you because you can't control her......

You can't do marriage counseling if she is still seeing other men.

Deep down you know the decision, you just need the momentum, you need the push so you can go over the edge. Start looking for better, you need it.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Simple rule, if you're not married, you have no reason to stay with her.


:iagree:


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Stop drinking alcohol. Period. Full stop. You need your wits about you for your children. Clearly your baby momma is toxic, you don't need to be too. I would bet you can get full custody of your kids if you want it. She is too much of a party girl, she will panic at the thought of being tied down having to look after the kids when you leave. Talk to your lawyer, get him to write custody papers. Threaten not to take any custody, and watch her scramble for the pen! This is just my instinct though, so make sure you see a lawyer ASAP!

And for the kid's sake, stop the drinking now!


----------



## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

brander said:


> For my two kids my friend. I came from a single parent family and lived in poverty and lack of discipline my entire youth. My kids wont have the money problem bexause i will supoort them no matter what happens. But they need both parents and my 3 year old always wants both of us. Its hard knowing they will and already are dealing with some of the stuff i went through like brainwashing from her. Dealing with and acting out due to our consrant fighting. Seeing and hearing things they should never at this age see and hear. Living in seperate homes at different times. Dealing with new men and women in their lives, her using them to hurt me, court appearances and its just so damn complicated. Being married has very little to do with it. I was divorced at 26 with no kids and it was easy. Not being married but having multiple children is far more difficult and basically all the same rules apply. Maybe no alimony, the house is hers anyway left to her by grandparents. So its mostly just guilt about subjecting the kids to this. Not that its good for them now either. Im so beat, another shot and then surf this site till she vets off my couch.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry you're here my friend. Understandably this makes it much harder. But don't be guilty of a crime you did not commit. Your girlfriend was the one that strayed and hence she's the one subjecting you and the kids to this. Not you, which I think lies at the heart of your problems


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

And don't kid yourself anymore, the situation as is is not good for your boys. With her attitude and your alcohol, there are basically 4 children in the house, and no adults. You need to grow the f... up, fast!


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Good morning and thank you. I feel like crap, and I had that coming to me. I feel like im almost ready to make the change. Im calling my lawyer today, Hes going to laugh since we just dropped our case from her serving me custody forms 2 months ago. You guys are giving me more strength than you could know. I wish I had come here sooner. I read a thread called letting her go on here and I really need to start getting myself back to reallity, and need to focus on my health. I have alot of responsibility outside of home life and the drinking and the mental exhaustion is taking its toll on my business too. How many midlife crisis are we allowed to have ? She is toxic and she is dragging me down to her level and loving it. Im done and im going back to the basics. I cant fast forward to better times by drinking my night away. I need a bed that im allowed to sleep in, space to live, and a healthy enviroment to raise my kids in. I have a feeling she will fight tooth and nail and even exagerate or make up reasons why I shouldnt have custody, I wouldnt expect ant less from her since the more time and control and money from me she has the happier she will be. My lawyer said that since she works late weeknights I would have my kids 5 days, but she is the type to loose her job intentionally and go on welfare to manipulate the system. Im bracing myself for the worst, and untill this goes down I need to try to control myself and not reveal too many details. She doesnt need time to make a plan , I want to drop the bomb just like she did to me 2 months ago. Its funny how you can find out that you need to grow up at 31 but I do, thanks for telling me that.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You're welcome. Today you should go get yourself a voice activated recorder to carry around in your pocket, to document the things she says, in case she makes threats, or tries to frame you for abuse.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

So im not really proud of this but here we go. A couple of days ago another man made an inappropriate comment on my GFs facebook page. I got pissed and told her to delete it, she told me to mind my bussiness. I posted a retort about how i dont really apreciate people disrespecting our relationship, and on the page my son can see since he is on FB as well. I sent him a private message as well, he responded saying he lives very far away, barely knows her and was very apologetic , he seems very sorry and I beleive it was just a guy who thinks shes hot being a guy and got the foot in mouth. 
I decided to try and experiment, I told her very calmly that another man saw the exchange between me and the other guy on FB and sent me a private message that said he felt bad because he didnt know she was involved in a relationship, that he had sex with her, and that he felt like he needed to come clean with me as I seemed to be hurt by this FB post and wanted to open my eyes to a bigger problem. 
This is entirely made up, she flew into a rage, demanded to know who it was, even guessed a name ! I asked why she thought it was him and she said because he is the most jealous and unstable of her ex BFs. I told her it wasnt him but thanks for that info and keep guessing. I told her I have respect for him for being honest with me. After I left for work she had some time to regroup and says it must be a facebook stalker who is psycho and is angry with me for not telling her a name. I already judge by her reaction that anger and a defensive attitude is a sign of guilt. 
I had an arguement with her and told her if she would just own up to her crap (i said he gave me another name as well)that maybe we could work past it, she told me shes done with me **** me for accusing her and that she never has sex, not even with me.
When I came home from work she was pleasant enough, but I hd already started the 180 treatment, she didnt bring anything up and we barley spoke, yesterday same thing except she was being overly friendly, trying to engage me in conversation , trying to touch me. I very calmly told her i rather she didnt touch me. She didnt respond and I just went into another room with my son to play. We had to nring my son to karate that evening and she wanted to come. When she asked if we were taking seperate cars I just shrugged, she flipped out saying I wouldnt speak to her, wildly waving her arms and screaming at me as I pulled away (kids in my car). We did not speak the entire time at karate, she was busy chatting with other moms anyway. 
When we got home she made dinner, acting happy as can be, like nothing was wrong. Im still in 180 mode, and she doesnt know what to make of it. I had a great time joking with my kids and playing and avoiding her all evening. The 180 is getting to her already. When she breaks down and asks whats going on I mat tell her nothing, or ask her for a confesion. Not sure yet, shes been ****ing with my head so long it feels good to take control, observe her behavior and otherwise **** with her head. Im playing a game, but I was wondering if anyone had luck going this route? Once the spyware is on her cell phone I am considering leaking more vauge false info to see who she contacts afterard. Is making up the whole thig wrong on my part, im convinced shes cheating, and I think its with 5 or 6 men over the last 4 years.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

I really think she would confess if she knew who I caught her with bt I didnt give a name so she doesnt know which guy to confess about. I hope its eating her alive inside. Maybe she will feel lke I feel all the time.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

brander said:


> I really think she would confess if she knew who I caught her with bt I didnt give a name so she doesnt know which guy to confess about. I hope its eating her alive inside. Maybe she will feel lke I feel all the time.


Just don't forget the 180 is for you. If she sees a more confident self assured you and comes back that's great but focus on you and the kid now, good luck.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

yes, the 180 is not meant to manipulate her into doing what you want. If you think of it that way, you will fail miserably at it. It will be very obvious to her, and make you look pathetic.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

HAHA yup I should have listened to my mother about the ex stripper thing. But she stopped about a year before we reunited. I totally understand the 180 is for me, but the effect it is having on her is unbeleivable. Im mentally preparing myself for the road ahead and distancing myself from her emotionally. But, I will admit that I like the way its messing with her and she went from total crazy cold ***** to happy touchy good girl as soon as I told her i was contacted by OM . WOW shes guilty as hell. All I want her confession for is closure. The 180 has calmed me already and I feel more in control over my actions and emotions. SO, has anyone gotten a confession by claiming they know ? Shes worried about it I can tell. I also took some key items out of the house today, things she will notice, hoping to get my point across. Im not looking for reconciliation, just truth, and the truth is hard to get. Yes I am being manipulative, yes I am lying, and I am keeping her in the dark.She deserves it, and I want answers so that I dont second guess the decision 5 years from now and get sucked back in. The most positive thing about it is no more fighting, and I feel better knowing that my eyes are wide open and im prepaed to move on.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

As far as councling goes, I have tried to get her to go, she says that I have to go alone because nothing is wrong with her. I thnk shes afraid that her cheating will come out or her mental unstability will become apparent .So thats out, Im past the point where im looking to repair it and have decided to move on. The kids make it tough and I need to strike when it suits me. The custody case is the only important thing to me and I have to get that right the first time, which means after she goes back to work full time. Otherwise she just wont go back and then I wont have my children every night. That will turn into a huge emotional and financial loss for me. I want her to work to pay her bills, for her house that she likes to throw me out of and hold over my head. When she gets home i want that house to be quiet, empty, and sad because the kids are with me. Maybe she will be a better person after she loses everything because of her actions. Either way it wont matter to me.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

brander said:


> The 180 is getting to her already. When she breaks down and asks whats going on I mat tell her nothing, or ask her for a confesion.


Be matter of fact and polite. Don't tell her that nothing is going on. She knows better. It makes you look like you're not confident enough to handle the elephant in the room. Tell her that you are through with her games and cheating. Whether she has had sex, or has made out, or sexts, or whatever. You're through with all of it. That's honest and is not playing games.



brander said:


> Im playing a game, but I was wondering if anyone had luck going this route?


Yes. People have used the 180 to stop getting sucked into the dramatic crap their spouses are trying to pull. And sometimes, the disloyal spouses realize the loyal spouses are pulling away, and they have a sudden change of heart and recommit to the relationship. Both can happen.

Just remember that you're doing this for you. To make you less outcome dependent. You're not doing this to win her back. If that happens, OK. If not, that's OK, too.



brander said:


> Once the spyware is on her cell phone I am considering leaking more vauge false info to see who she contacts afterard. Is making up the whole thig wrong on my part, im convinced shes cheating, and I think its with 5 or 6 men over the last 4 years.


Yes. Stop playing this game. You may have already overdone it. The key to that type of game is to be as vague as possible. If you leave things vague, then she starts filling in details. When you start filling in details, you are giving her more and more opportunities to catch you in a lie.

Just tell her something like, "I know what you did" and leave it at that. She'll constantly ask how you know and what you know, but don't answer her. Leave it vague.

Also, the 180 is not about giving her the silent treatment or refusing to ride in the same car as her. It's about not giving her any more power over you. Be polite to her. But, be short and curt. Talk about the kids, but don't talk about your marriage.

Good luck.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Truth is, making up the contact has totally turned her around as far as being pleasant to live with. If someone accused me like that I would want to talk about it, she just wants to act like it never happened. Of course, because she knows what she does. She bought the kids to her mothers last night, came home around 9 and jumped in the shower. I tried to get her phone to install the spybubble, but she heard me enter the bathroom and stuck her head out of the shower."What are you doing?" I froze for a second, not knowing what to say, then said I was looking for toilet paper. She opens the curtain and pulls me in the shower, fully clothed, I started to protest but she had me stripped down in 2 seconds(stripping pro i guess)and we had incrediby hot sex, then again after the shower. Problem is that afterward I feel like throwing up and cant get the pictures out of my head of her being with other men. I SUCK and i need to get that damn phone, which is practically glued to her arse. Im tired of not knowing, and tired of the fighting. I dont think I will be able to fully let her go until I have proof. The human mind is a strange thing indeed, and mine is all over the place from one day to the next. This morning she asks me if im O.K., I told her no im not, she just said "I know , can you please get me a coffee?" What the hell is that about?


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Man, your WW and you both love drama. What your are seeing is not the "desired" effect of 180. Not at all. This is just the push/pull game. Wanting what you don't have. It's all short term and perfectly compatible with going out tonight to f0ck OM again.
You are all over the map, friend. What's your goal here? If your goal is to split then you need to stop feeding the drama, engaging her anyway. You don't detach doing exactly the opposite. 
Be alone with yourself, look at the big picture, think mid/long term. Forget the little head. Make a decision and commit to behave coherently.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Get your post count up over 30 and go read disenchanted's thread in the private member's section.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

brander said:


> Thanks for the reply. If i catch her cheating i will leave her.


Keep the blindfold on and the earplugs in and you won't have to go anywhere. Based on your first post, a fair estimate would be she's done it hundreds of times, probably with dozens of guys. Put a VAR under her car seat with velcro, spyware on her phone. GPS her car.




brander said:


> But I wont abandon the family so it will be a long painfull process with the court while living together. I think im just looking for solid evidence so that I can leave her and know that I wasnt making a mistake. I honestly want to be wrong but that means nothing . I guess the phone spy thing would work, if i can get the damn thing out of her hand for a few.


Do the other stuff above. When she goes out, get a babysitter. Does your W still strip? What's her injury?


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

I agre, I was kind of sucked into it. I told you guys I was a mess. I wasnt kidding. Nothing about this is easy im sure you all understand the drama aspect. We are at jerry springer levels. Try not to get pissed at me guys im just being honest with you. I value your input so dont give up on me yet.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Keep the blindfold on and the earplugs in and you won't have to go anywhere. Based on your first post, a fair estimate would be she's done it hundreds of times, probably with dozens of guys. Put a VAR under her car seat with velcro, spyware on her phone. GPS her car.
> I plan on doing some real investigating.
> No stripping since I came back into the picture. I dont roll like that. Out of work for a back injury. Dozens of guys ? OUCH ...... I really hope not but you never know.
> 
> ...


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Don't worry about it. We are here to help you.
I'm still going to point out tthe right path. It's a deal, right?


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

brander said:


> im convinced shes cheating, and I think its with 5 or 6 men over the last 4 years.


Those are just the regulars. Many more targets of opportunity have crossed her sights.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Okay, I'm up to date now. Wonder how I missed this thread up til now. 

She's had all the power in the relationship all along. You're just the babysitter and the stable influence who doesn't interfere with her sex goddess side. She gets the best of both worlds. From what you've said about your present GF, good thing you aren't married to her, and your XW, it would seem you've been much to laid back in terms of asserting your dominance in the relationship.

Go here and read the 16 commandments for men. Then figure out where you are on the Male Hierarchy. Lots of good info on both those blogs about the TRUE nature of women and how to deal with them. 

There are two books you should read, download from amazon:

Married Man Sex Life Primer (how to build attraction by asserting dominance)

No More Mr. Nice Guy (how to quit being a doormat for women).

You're already getting hit on by women, so amp it up. Take up hard core weight training to build muscle mass. Quit the alcohol. Cut the belly fat until you get a 6 pack. Start dressing so much sharper that people think you're inappropriate. Change hair. This will make your GF go nuts.

DNA the kids.


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

She knows how to control you. That will help her to continue what she is doing.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

brander said:


> I agre, I was kind of sucked into it. I told you guys I was a mess. I wasnt kidding. Nothing about this is easy im sure you all understand the drama aspect. We are at jerry springer levels. Try not to get pissed at me guys im just being honest with you. I value your input so dont give up on me yet.


We won't give up. Too many of us have messed up real bad ourselves. You're winning just by knowing you are in a difficult place.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Okay, I'm up to date now. Wonder how I missed this thread up til now.
> 
> She's had all the power in the relationship all along. You're just the babysitter and the stable influence who doesn't interfere with her sex goddess side. She gets the best of both worlds. From what you've said about your present GF, good thing you aren't married to her, and your XW, it would seem you've been much to laid back in terms of asserting your dominance in the relationship.
> 
> ...


Then when you are 50 and don't have a 6 pack come back here and post about why the shallow woman you got ran off with a muscled 'man' with a 6 pack.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> Then when you are 50 and don't have a 6 pack come back here and post about why the shallow woman you got ran off with a muscled 'man' with a 6 pack.


Or you can be like me and be 55 and somewhat ripped with 16" biceps, 46.5" chest, 34" waist band, 17" calves, 17" neck, all wrapped up in a suit that shows off my 1.37:1 chest to waist ratio. SFAIK, my W is still on the same page, despite some red flags years ago when I was a big fat tub of lard, but if she steps out of line I'm very confident of my ability to quickly move on. That's good for her to know and for me to know. Red Pill, baby.


----------



## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

You're like me! (hopefully minus the steroids) 

Anyway, when my wife cheated, what did I do? 
I posted on facebook, and said something to the effect of my wife cheated, and I was angry. 
Must've been a flashing neon sing to every woman I was friends with at the time saying "Betrayed hubby over here, he is single, makes a good living, and his wife can't take him to the cleaners cause he got a prenup. TEMPT HIM!!!" 

If I wanted to, I could've gotten more tail than a toilet seat. 

Women like guys that can physically turn them on. Muscles. Sounds like you got em. 

And they like money and power. 
Sounds like you got those also. 

You can go out there and become a real lady's killers. 
Have fun man. 

You're still young.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I have turned more sex down than I care to think about.

I want a woman for her mind first and body second. I believe they are individuals.

We both types of men exist perhaps because we remove types of women neither would be interested in from the pool of potential partners.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> I have turned more sex down than I care to think about.


Me too. 



Chris989 said:


> I want a woman for her mind first and body second. I believe they are individuals.


They have to have a hot body to get my attention, since I'm a male who is, oddly enough, visual. Once they get my attention, they also have to have a mind and spirit to match the body, or they lose my attention. And no two are exactly alike; but they do all have one heart, two lungs, two legs, one vag, one limbic system, and one rationalization hamster.



Chris989 said:


> We both types of men exist perhaps because we remove types of women neither would be interested in from the pool of potential partners.


You can have the ones with brains that aren't hot looking, and I'll take the ones that are. Everybody's happy.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

:rofl::iagree::iagree:


Machiavelli said:


> Me too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 yea I'll take my 27 yr old gf over 41 xw cheater anytime!


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Ok, I get the ugly cheaters, you guys get the good looking 'hot chicks' and women don't get a choice.


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Brander, it was wrong to lie to try and get some type of confession from her IMHO... she is cheating on you, you don't need to resort to those methods of deciet, you know the truth. 
You must really start taking the step towards seperation for the sake of your kids. Your wife and yourself cannot stand to be in the same room with eachother, can not have a decent conversation, and you have to get drunk to accept her. 
The kids are veiwing a loveless marriage, and you don't want that. You dont want your kids growing up, misunderstanding the meaning of love.
Start to documenting everything, every night you wife ventures out, times when she comes home, her behavior when she is homes, etc... everything. You can use this ammunition in the courts, start to build your ammunition.
Listen, you can get the spyware for the proof, but you really dont need that do you... and I dont know how well the will be accepted in court (spying and voliating her privacy).


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

BTW, as a personal thing, there is nothing I like least than a man who is overly muscley. I CANNOT stand gym muscles. Work muscles, fit body, Yes! Yum! Gym/working out muscles, Noooooo! Such a turn off! And vain.

And I have been told I am very attractive. My auntie wanted to model me when I was about 16/18! I laughed! I have always been slim and always been flirted at and hit on by gorgeous men. I have never gone.for looks and always on chemistry. I find quirkiness attractive and the 'ideal' looking man dull. Intelligence a must. Never gone for men who are very good looking. I have always found them rather self obsessed or too full of themselves and often dull. I prefer a bit of humility. With interesting.chat, and funny too. 

Muscles? Just utterly turning me off. 
Fit? Through general life and keeping healthy? Definitely!


----------



## Humble Pie (Feb 28, 2012)

Remains said:


> BTW, as a personal thing, there is nothing I like least than a man who is overly muscley. I CANNOT stand gym muscles. Work muscles, fit body, Yes! Yum! Gym/working out muscles, Noooooo! Such a turn off! And vain.
> 
> And I have been told I am very attractive. My auntie wanted to model me when I was about 16/18! I laughed! I have always been slim and always been flirted at and hit on by gorgeous men. I have never gone.for looks and always on chemistry. I find quirkiness attractive and the 'ideal' looking man dull. Intelligence a must. Never gone for men who are very good looking. I have always found them rather self obsessed or too full of themselves and often dull. I prefer a bit of humility. With interesting.chat, and funny too.
> 
> ...



Seems like this thread has gotten de-railed... why are you talking about yourself on someone else's thread?


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Back to the point in question. Brander, you can get truth telling that you know. I did. But then I did know. I knew and that was all that mattered to me. He kept his lies up for a year, watched me go through hell for a year, and as that year went on I became more and more convinced that he was lying to me, more convinced of my own mind, more confident in my thought of what really went on (through being on this forum. Thank goodness for this forum. It saved me!). And so the demise of our relationship happened. He told me a further TT when he had no other choice because we were basically over anyway. And because I didn't care anymore. So yes, when you know, you know, and when they know that you know, and you do not waiver from your stance, and they have nowhere else to hide, and their manipulations of you stop working...then they may tell you. But, only then.

Pretending to know details though is a dangerous game and if caught out will diminish your 'catching' her out. 

Don't play games either. You are lowering yourself to her level. 

You don't have to be friendly with her, just polite. Business only. No revenge. That is the best way forward and will get the best results. See her game playing for what it is and let it all wash over you.

If you need spyware on her phone to make the evidence undeniable (you already know the truth. Do you want to be hurt further by more detailed truths?) then make sure you put the settings in place so that they do not drain the battery and data usage. I made that mistake and it was discovered within about 1-2 weeks.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Humble Pie said:


> Seems like this thread has gotten de-railed... why are you talking about yourself on someone else's thread?


I was putting in a woman's opinion to the insistence of going to the gym and building up big muscles and catching attractive females. 

And that to not do so you will only end up with a dog of a female. Look at the posts above. 

I was saying that that opinion is not correct. Not for me anyway. I find overly muscled men a complete turn off.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I particularly liked Chris' point that the attractive women who go for the big muscles type are shallow.

I wholeheartedly agree with Chris!


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

OK guys let me clear one thing up. I dont buy into the whole jersey shore cool guy image. Im a tough looking , self made construction contractor, I need no gym,I was born with 16 inch biceps OK. Most men are intimidated by me. I am not "perfect" . I am a leader of men, I am" the boss" for a reason and I ignore advances from women every day. I am not the alpha male in the terms layed out in the link makaveli gave me. I am more reserved and live a private life. Other people would probably say that I am, but they dont know me. Im not really into my appearance and i dont do my hair I cut it off. I drive big expensive trucks with my name all over them. Women love it. People that have known me along time consider me a ladies man. I dont brag about # of women ive had but its alot.Money, muscles and power might be what I have but I ended up with a really hot woman who treats me badly. I always give more than I get, maybe thats the mistake I make with women.

ALL OF THIS IS NOT THE POINT !!!!

I know I can go find another woman. My turmoil lies in the breaking of my family unit, the pain of uncertainty and confusion, and the decision to prove that I am right. Like it or not I do love this woman even if I dont know why. Even if I get hard proof and leave her she is my kids mother and she will have a place in my heart. But that wont stop me from leaving her, Im sure alot of you understand that. 

I think Im going to change strategy, because I am totally drained by all of the drama and bull****. I am hell bent on gathering evidence. I got 3 VARs installed last night. Bed, car, porch. I bought the cell spyware, but cant get the phone away from her. Until them all I can do is prepare for the bomb to drop and try to get her off her guard so I can get the cell phone.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

I have a sitter lined up for last minute if she decides to go out. I also get to borrow sitters car to play spy with, since my trucks dont exactly blend in. Usually I tell myself to have some confidence and trust when I start thinking like this, but the trust is gone. Alot of my confidence is gone too, but I will get that back.

Someday Ill start another thread about how I married a psycologist who was insane, and then left her for the stripper. You guys want to see all over the map ? You have no idea.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Man, your WW and you both love drama. What your are seeing is not the "desired" effect of 180. Not at all. This is just the push/pull game. Wanting what you don't have. It's all short term and perfectly compatible with going out tonight to f0ck OM again.
> You are all over the map, friend. What's your goal here? If your goal is to split then you need to stop feeding the drama, engaging her anyway. You don't detach doing exactly the opposite.
> Be alone with yourself, look at the big picture, think mid/long term. Forget the little head. Make a decision and commit to behave coherently.


Why is it that everything you post hits me in the face like a brick ? Thanks for the brick to the face it was refreshing. Its kind of funny but when I give other people advice I say things like this, but I can lie to myself !


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Brander, I don't think the hot woman is the problem. As you well know. A (dowdy) psychologist can be the same in measure of fuc*edupness. It is the personality flaws that one needs to be aware of. 

Best time to get her phone is I guess when she is asleep. Preferably after a drunken night. I tried to get my man's phone once he had been asleep for over an hour. I thought he was in deep sleep. But he always seemed to come around, no matter what or how long asleep for. When he was drunk, I could do what I liked and he did not stir. And like I said, beware the settings! Do not do gps finder at regular intervals. This will drain the battery. And do not log anything unnecessary. This will drain battery and data usage. Very very noticeably. If she has unlimited data then it won't be a problem.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

SHe was also beautiful , just as crazy as can be though. Just on the extreme opposite end of the moral spectrum.

I know that that will be my only chance to get the phone. She may not be going out for a while since we had a discussion about this pretty recently. She's going to try to find time during the day to do her "thing" since Im at work all day. But I can always drop in at any time, which I def plan to do. I dont think she would bring anyone to the house. So maybe a secret day off and a borrowed car are in order.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

brander said:


> You guys want to see all over the map ? You have no idea.


From one cunstrucction guy that likes stripper chicks to another construction guy that *married* a stripper chick I can say .......I have every idea about the map you are navigating.

At least it only took you 4 years......I went 13 years and it was almost 3 years ago were I had had enough......13 years of freaking hell, then I finaly confronted my wife. 

Made a ton of money though. That was my excape...working and drinking. For 13 long years of her cheating, I focused on work and booze.

My 2 kids went thru alot but we must have done something right cuz they are both productive young adults.

Any way brother you are not alone and stay the course, until she sees that she has a problem she will never see the problem in *her* marrriage.

How in the hell is your old lady going to fix her marriage when she can't even fix her self?

BTW, I have found,when your self employed and especially have a home office, its safe to say that there is a good chance she hasn't banged anyone in your bed. But thats just my experience. Chicks like our can get anything from a horny young guy and that includes getting a room if they can't take our wifes home. It been my experience that they have a rotation and then they have the ONS, I found that my WW would not bring either one back to our home.

ours chicks have 2 life styles;
There man and thier kids and the 2nd life of boytoys and parties.

I also want to warn you that your chcik could go staight for a few years. Hell mine when 5 years stariaght after a few affairs but then went back to her old ways. Thats the thing with these chick they want the family life but also want there party. 

My point is until your lady fixes her self she will alwas be that stripper chick getting what ever she can from who ever she can get it from. The thing is as they get older they are more selective on what they want out of that 2nd life so they lay in wait for the better mark. instead of some young guy with no money.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Yup, seems like im in the same boat , I actually dont ike strippers so much as feel bad for them. Im so glad I have 2 sons and I wont have to worry about a daughter taking up that ****. I too have buried myself in a pile of work and booze for a while now. Its taking its toll on me though and I can feel it. But like you said , I make alot of money.(only thing she loves about me) 

Im having trouble with putting my own happiness first instead of weathering the storm and being the "rock" for the family. Problem is that I went from superman to doormatt pretty quick. She knows I am like this and exploits it. Now I get the pile of bills, the shopping list, house work yardwork and every little problem dropped in my lap. I had no problem with that at first because Im a man and thats what I do.

Now its all one way, I get to sleep alone, wait for her to decide to come home, never get laid,etc. She used to make me feel like I was the most important man in the world. She actually said right in front of me to her sis in law that I was a useless lazy *******. Two mins later she says she could never have her house, cars and lifestyle without me thank god Im there. She feels like she is entitled to her way of life and keeps hinting on not returning to work. Yet she has that second life too, boytoys and parties. Funny how I cant get a couple hours out with the boys without ww3 starting though. 

I wont let 13 years go by , im going to catch her. Then get my kids, and start over. It wont be simple or easy, but it wont be that hard either I guess since she doesnt contribute much at all , I dont need anyone to help me out. Honestly after this, I want to take it real slow. I dont need a woman although its nice to have some sex every now and then. Ill probably just focus on the kids and biz instead of women. Amazing how much energy a relationship requires.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

BTW GUY, Im not married to her, who marries a stripper ? but I did have 2 kids with her.(first one wasn't planned and I was 20. They have both been D.N.A tested and they are def mine. REALLY GLAD IM NOT MARRIED and beleive me shes been trying to suck me into that the whole time. I won't even go there considering how miserable she is and makes me on top of the whole infidelity problem.


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

brander said:


> I make alot of money.(only thing she loves about me)


Cut off her money supply. No credit cards, limited gas money - if any - written budget for her w/ no discretionary funds. Drain most of the checking acct if she has access to it and open one with your name only. 

Tell her that because of the economy and competition your financial adviser has demanded a tight budget for the next six months. This should motivate her to find a job.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

brander said:


> BTW GUY, Im not married to her, who marries a stripper ? but I did have 2 kids with her.(first one wasn't planned and I was 20. They have both been D.N.A tested and they are def mine. REALLY GLAD IM NOT MARRIED and beleive me shes been trying to suck me into that the whole time. I won't even go there considering how miserable she is and makes me on top of the whole infidelity problem.


A very young dumb and full of come nerd from the mid west, who has an nack to make money, a thing for big boosm blonde girls from so cal.

Any way that was 23 yrs ago


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

brander said:


> I wont let 13 years go by ,


Where was this site 20 plus years ago? Where was the guy telling me the same sh1t I'm telling you now?

Well life is good now and I have 2 great kids, I no longer slap the crap out of my old lady and she no longer sleeps around. Are kids are young adults and me and the mrs. the guy are in our mid forties and have learned the tools to have a healthier life as individuals. I can only hope the same for the both of you so that you kids turns out just as productive in ther own lives.

At the end of the day no mater what hapen between the 2 of you ....you guys have a bigger picture and it has nothing to do with you as spouses but as parents. 























=


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

brander said:


> for the record shes no angel, she cheated on 3 of her ex BF with me over the course of 10 yrs and she was working as a stripper for most of the time that we were living seperatly.idiot.


My as well of married her!


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

She has no acess to my money except for what I give her. I pay the mortgage, all utilities, food, medical bills, oil heat, and anything my kids need. She works to pay for her car insurance, gas , cigaretts,and party money. Just paid off her crappy car. Now she needs extra every month because shes out on comp. I think she faked the injury because her work schedule was my ace in the hole as far as custody goes. She doesnt want to go back to work and told me I can afford it, includeing her insurance and both kids insurance which is through her work. Shes dreaming, I' m afraid its part of her plan to get full custody and lots of $$$$$$$

Guy, I was just kidding with you, and I might as well have married her since we have 2 kids. BUT I DIDN'T . Im glad you guys made out alright.

Now this crazy person says my kids cant see my mom(made mom cry tonight) or sister because my sister yelled at her 2 weeks ago at dinner. My son was mouthing off and she encouraged him. I dont take **** from my kids so I layed down the law. She started crap and my sister had enough of the bickering so she told her so. Not much I can do about that, my sis isnt one to be messed with. 

Once you try to take out my family(mom and sis)you are all done. I dont care who you are. Oh, and when I got home from my solo dinner at moms I pull up to fing her on the front porch hanging out with her brothers friend at 10:30. Now Im not going to freak out, but if I had some chick on her porch at 10:30 there would be a problem. This poor sap wouldnt know how to handle me if i freaked out so I told him to keep it warm for me,Im a ****, they didnt get it. I left went to my office, 5 mins from the house. This is my safe zone, my space ,the neutral zone, where I talk to yous guys .


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Lord give me strength to laugh at the guy on my porch when I get home. Instead of crushing his spine. Just kidding,I'm going to behave , I think.... Im not drinking today so he may be O.K. Tommorow I get to check th VAR i stuck under the porch table. That will be fun.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

brander said:


> Why is it that everything you post hits me in the face like a brick ? Thanks for the brick to the face it was refreshing. Its kind of funny but when I give other people advice I say things like this, but I can lie to myself !


We all can. We're just blind to the obvious when it's our own sitch.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

brander said:


> ...Women love it. People that have known me along time consider me a ladies man. I dont brag about # of women ive had but its alot.Money, muscles and power might be what I have but I ended up with a really hot woman who treats me badly. I always give more than I get, maybe thats the mistake I make with women.
> 
> ALL OF THIS IS NOT THE POINT !!!!
> 
> I know I can go find another woman.


This puts you way ahead in terms of where most guys start out from when they first learn the truth. Your confidence level will be quickly restored once you start moving out of this bad situation.



brander said:


> Even if I get hard proof and leave her she is my kids mother and she will have a place in my heart. But that wont stop me from leaving her, Im sure alot of you understand that.
> 
> I think Im going to change strategy, because I am totally drained by all of the drama and bull****. I am hell bent on gathering evidence. I got 3 VARs installed last night. Bed, car, porch. I bought the cell spyware, but cant get the phone away from her. Until them all I can do is prepare for the bomb to drop and try to get her off her guard so I can get the cell phone.


Sounds like you've got the bases covered. Do the phone in the middle of the night. She probably takes it with her into the shower.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

brander said:


> SHe was also beautiful , just as crazy as can be though. Just on the extreme opposite end of the moral spectrum.
> 
> *I know that that will be my only chance to get the phone*. She may not be going out for a while since we had a discussion about this pretty recently. She's going to try to find time during the day to do her "thing" since Im at work all day. But I can always drop in at any time, which I def plan to do. I dont think she would bring anyone to the house. So maybe a secret day off and a borrowed car are in order.


Something I don't understand on many of these threads - "getting the phone."

Why not just tell her that you believe she is cheating and that you want to see the phone immediately or else you will assume she is cheating and initiate your legal custody case through the attorney? Why not tell her that you refuse to stay with her if she continues with the behaviors that you find unacceptable, such as not being open with her communication devices and accounts and her going on girls nights outs, with her sleeping apart and the lack of sex, and sitting with other men on your front porch when you are not home? If she refuses to comply, isn't that a good enough reason to separate from her and seek custody? Your demands are not outrageous - as a matter of fact, they are just about the minimum of what most people in a committed relationship would expect.

On another front, if getting the phone is so important to you to find ACTUAL PROOF of what you ALREADY KNOW is going on, why not just take it when she's asleep or in the shower and then leave the house with it, go somewhere and take your time looking at it? Get in the car and go somewhere before she has a chance to get dressed and follow you. Does it make any difference if she knows you have it? What would be the consequence for doing something like this? She would come running after you? She would be angry? Call the police and and tell them you stole her phone?


----------



## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I like stripper too, they are just so funny but, no, you can not marry one! Why don't get yourself a Fuc8Budd8 Stripper while yours is out and just explain to her what is good for her is good for you. PS Cut down on the drinking for you and your sons. Cheers David


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Something I don't understand on many of these threads - "getting the phone."
> 
> Why not just tell her that you believe she is cheating and that you want to see the phone immediately or else you will assume she is cheating and initiate your legal custody case through the attorney? Why not tell her that you refuse to stay with her if she continues with the behaviors that you find unacceptable, such as not being open with her communication devices and accounts and her going on girls nights outs, with her sleeping apart and the lack of sex, and sitting with other men on your front porch when you are not home? If she refuses to comply, isn't that a good enough reason to separate from her and seek custody? Your demands are not outrageous - as a matter of fact, they are just about the minimum of what most people in a committed relationship would expect.


In my experience it just isn't this simple.



Will_Kane said:


> On another front, if getting the phone is so important to you to find ACTUAL PROOF of what you ALREADY KNOW is going on, why not just take it when she's asleep or in the shower and then leave the house with it, go somewhere and take your time looking at it? Get in the car and go somewhere before she has a chance to get dressed and follow you. Does it make any difference if she knows you have it? What would be the consequence for doing something like this? She would come running after you? She would be angry? Call the police and and tell them you stole her phone?


I agree with the second part of what you are saying. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I think this is good advice.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

I wont find anything on the phone, I'm sure she deletes everything. I want to download the spy ware on the thing. SHe wouldnt do much besides scream and yell if I just took it. But I dont want her to notice little things about the phone and realize i messed with it. I want her to be relaxed and think shes clear. SHe is used to me being transparent with everything in my life. Now shes going to get a big suprise. 

I don't really care about her getting pissed, I do need to catch her though. Before I decide to split up my family. 

The guy on the porch is no threat. Hes unattractive, and hes a family friend whose around now and then. Its just the point that I dont do **** like that because its inappropriate. I went home and taked with him for 5 mins and told him it was time for me to put her to bed so he had to leave. I also checked the porch VAR, their conversations were boring and totally non sexual.


----------



## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

brander said:


> I
> The guy on the porch is no threat. Hes unattractive, and hes a family friend whose around now and then. Its just the point that I dont do **** like that because its inappropriate. I went home and taked with him for 5 mins and told him it was time for me to put her to bed so he had to leave. I also checked the porch VAR, their conversations were boring and totally non sexual.


This sounds a bit Head in sandish 

The OW in my husband's affair was not attractive and even though younger than I many people who knew of her were flabbergasted by my husbands choice because they consider me, in their own words, more attractive. 

The fact that he is a family friend should not relax you too much either. 

The OW in my case was a serial cheater and her prior affair was with her husband's best friend and a wife who was the OW's good family friend. 

The affair was going on right under the respective spouses noses...while they both socialized and her four children and his two children played together.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

Basically, she hides all of her shady stuff from me. I dont think she would be stupid enough to bring anyone she was cheating with to my house. I could be wrong but Im pretty sure. I was expected home at some time that evening , and my son was awake. He's 11 and nosy and knows about sex stuff, so shes not doing it at the house with the kids there either. 

But it's def not normal to have guy friends at the house. The ones that do come over from time to time know me ,and already know they are def not allowed there when I'm not home. They understand and respect the fact that I won't hesitate to knck someone out. Same way that I wouldn't hang out with a buddies wife if he wasn't home. Proper protocall is to say tell him I stopped by.AND THEN LEAVE< MAN LAW

Dont think that kept me from making sure he's afraid of me and picking on him a little bit. I can't help it, if thats the kind of loser shes ****ing around on me with then she's not doing it right. 

I have been keeping track of her doctors appointments, and checking in regularly with the sitter to check times and all that. She doesn't have sex every time she leaves the house. She makes sure I can't go looking for her because I have the kids . 

Stopped in to check on her today when she had free time between 2 appointments, she said I startled her it was like I came out of nowhere .


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

DavidWYoung said:


> I like stripper too, they are just so funny but, no, you can not marry one! Why don't get yourself a Fuc8Budd8 Stripper while yours is out and just explain to her what is good for her is good for you. PS Cut down on the drinking for you and your sons. Cheers David


Just trying to be the bigger person I guess. I would never do that. Plus I have the 2 kids when shes out. After we seperate then I'll prob show off some lady friends. Until then I will be a good boy.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

So far I have nothing to go on, shes cut down on activity probably because I've been on her like stink on ****. Nothing from VARs and no unexplained disapearances. She sometimes goes out on Wens nights so I have a plan to shadow her if she does. I know where she hangs out. 

Thanks to everyone here I am already in a much better place mentally. Im not freaking out and feeling sick 24/7. Nothings great but it's better. 

For some reason I've been more agressive with her sexually this last week. I guess I feel like if she's giving it away then I should get some too. Plus she needs to remember that I'm her man , not those little scrubs she fools around with. She stays off my ass a little more too, and thats always good. 

I know abacado I'm not following the plan, but if she thinks shes in the clear she will be easier to catch. Plus I feel better all day, who doesn't when they actually get laid more than once a month ? I know STD's are a concern but shes been at it for 4 yrs so if shes got it so do I.

Don't worry, I'll be back when I find some dirt to share, at that point I will need your input more than ever. Thanks so much to all of you .


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Then go get yourself checked for STDs.

If you have one - you know where it came from. That would be damn definite proof in my book.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

OK, sucks to be bck here but I now have my proof that I needed to move on. Funny, it was the guy on the porch (this time anyway) who I thought was not a threat. HAHA im stupid I know.

Guy on porch is her brothers buddy. He came over again last week to fix the sink, hes a plumber ,I was home. They stayed up till 1 a.m. on a wensday night drinking on the porch, I stayed up as well because I'm trying to be observant and obviously not give them alone time. Some minor flags went up that night ,just things she said and the way she acted. Nothing solid though.

Last night was a big halloween party at brothers house. I had to bring my 3 yr old home at 1030 because im a responsible parent. I expressed that I wasn't happy about her staying , but since when does that matter. I drove the 1/2 mile home,and put my kid to bed. 

I awoke at 2 a.m. shes not home yet. I wasn't suprised so I called her. She said she was really drunk, trying to sober up and was headed home soon. I told her I would come get her, since I wasn't drinking at all, but she said no. 

At 3 a.m. I put my son in the car and went to the house she was at. It was dark, nobody outside. I went to the rear deck and looked in the window. I could clearly see her sleeping on top of this guy on the couch, I mean straddling cheek to cheek on top of him. I rapped on the door, she rolled off of him and staggered to the door. I of coourse was angry and a little loud. The sister in law comes out of her room and tells me to leave. I asked why she thought it was O.K. to let this cheating happen in her home . She said" you really didn't see this coming shes been trying to break up with you for months now" I told the guy who was pretending to still be asleep on the couch he was a dead man and told her to get her ***** ass home NOW. 

She comes home, we have an argument, she tries to take my son to her car. Since she was drunk I blocked her in and called the police. When they arrived she was walking towards the party house with my son. Sister in law came to get them and the police followed them back to party house, where they let her keep my son for the night even though she was grossly intoxicated. They told mr they thought it was better to let him sleep than to upset him anymore.

Here I am at my office, I don't know where her or my kids are , and there is a huge hurricane coming this evening. I need to be at home for the kids just in case of emergency. Im not sure what to do or what the plan is at this point. 

Thanks everyone for the advice, for lifting the curtain for me, and for being blatantly honest. I needed to catch her and the only reason I did was because she was so close, I knew she had the oppourtunity, and because I could see them from the back door. This put the last 4 yrs of wondering to rest, I was right all along. I've been gaslighted, called a psycho, a cheater, an ******* and I have questioned my sanity and personality. On top of all this it isnt some random guy, this **** came over for dinner and was trying to be my buddy all night at this stupid party. This is quite personal, he knows my kids and has seen our family unit, I feel like justice should be served but know that wont do anything but get me into trouble. Im hurting here. Lots to think about, and a storm to deal with, wish me luck .


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You will survive both storms today and come out a better stronger man. When the wind is howling and the rain is pouring remember that they will pass and so will your anger and pain. Be the strong man you are and face the storms head-on with as much protection as you can.


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Lawyer. NOW. Start separating finances ans such.
Don't move out. Ever.
Purchase a VAR before going home.
NC with enabler, toxic neibourghs.

Embrace the 180. Live it.
The 180 degree rules
Dads divorce
Developing Detachment / Letting Go
Just Let Them Go


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Expose the affair and tell her family that you would like there support in your marriage but until she stops sleeping with Om that you will continue on the path of divorce.

Tell them what you saw and move on to the OM side, call his family and ask them for support for your marriage and until you divorce your wife she is still a maried women with young kids.

Do a back ground check on OM and talk to a lawyer, you might be able to get an order that prevents him around your kids.

Exposure is your best course of action, it will make the affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible.

I aslo suggest you ask your wife to leave, it will show her how confident you are in letting her go. Cut her off finacially, again this taste of reality will show your wife what infront of her if she continues.

If she takes the kids , call the cops and tell them your wife has abandon you and taken your kids. They won;t do much but you will have it on record that she is the one that has left.


The damamge control and the action you do now will set you up in a better position down the road.

So expose the affair, ask her to leave and cut her off finacial.

Be prepared for her to get pissed, waywards have a very hard time when the betrayed stop tolorating the bull crap. They seem to get realy mad when you make there affair inconvienent and uncomfortable. so the madder she gets the better, her fantrasy is crashing donw on her and that is a good sign.

These tactic here are to get her out of the fog and realize her fantasy with OM is not worth it and she breaks up with him.

Your SIL is toxic so you have your work cut out for you, she will support your WW but it won't last long cuz your WW drama will start to effect SIL own relationship and most like your WW will start to go from couch to couch, the kids will be back home and then it only a matter of time before she comes crawling back. Especially once the kids start to effect her new life style.

It will takes its toll and if she has any once of mother instinct left she will soon bring the kids back to you.

Even if she doesn;t bring them back you have every right to them as she does so were ever she pawns them off to you can alway go get them with the cops when she is out with out them.


Sometime you have to push them away and it sucks the kids have to suffer, but your WW needs to hit rock bottem for her to turn a corner.

Its hard to show this tough love to a women you once loved, but you can not nice your way out of this.

make sure you have a VAR on you to prevent false accusation from your WW.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm not looking for reconciliation at this point. I have been second guessing alot of her **** for over 4 yrs, More like 13 yrs counting our previous relationship and split. I finally caught her with one of her "guy friends". She actually drove past me in the other direction on my way home earlier. She had a ****ty little grin on her face, I think OM was with her. 

Its funny how she always had so much venom before when I didn't have hard proof. Now she has been hiding out with her bro and SIL and prob the OM all day. Wont answer the calls or texts from me asking her to bring the kids home and help with storm prep. Its her house so its not really fair for me to do everything while she hangs out with OM with my kids at that ! 

Now that she cant lie and gaslight me she has absolutley nothing to say. Also, SIL was caught by her husband twice in the act in their home, hes still with her 3 kids. It seems likr bro and SIL set OM and my soon to be ex up a while back. Explains the increase in the amount of time she has been spending there. 

Im on the outside, but I already exposed her to the rest of her family, just left her parents house. They like me and know their daughter, and are pretty upset because obviously family and kids being happy are important. I helped them with some storm prep and exposed her, her mom tried to do the "what if" crap about them just being drunk or flirtatious, when I shot her down in the way only I can do, there was no denying her daughter tried to sugarcoat it when they talked. 

Her dad is really pissed at all of them, hes a good man and the sneaky, trashy behavior doesny fly. Hes just as pissed at his son and daughter in law for enabling. He gave me good advice about controling my anger and thinking before I did anything stupid. Of course I want to burn and pillage but of course I won't. Although it would feel really good.

Im headed home, I think shes planning on keeping my children with her at that house with the OM tonight. Lord give me strenght, this isn't going to be easy. If I was the wayward spouse I would never expose my kids to another woman until the seperation was final. Never mind the day after being exposed .My 11 yr old is not going to be happy, and Im sure she will brainwash him too. Ah life..... I will try to enjoy some quiet self reflection and get some much needed rest , but my home has become a sad place.


----------



## brander (Oct 10, 2012)

So she still wont answer the phone. She has my 2 kids with her at the brothers house. I requested by text to speak to my kids and Im being ignored. She called the police today and said I made threats, which I didnt although I sent some not so nice texts to her. The police just told me not to make any threats and stay off the brothers property. And to stop texting her because it could be considered harrasment. The cops know the whole story and are being very understanding, they like me and Im well known in the area. They were reminding me to behave because shes not worth getting in trouble over. They basically hate her because her father is a cop and she thinks she can intimidate police by dropping names and calling her connections, and basically has a totally ****ty attitude. The female cop who came the night I caught her called her and the SIL "those two *****es." 

Its really ,really weird that shes not home. Its her house and usually she will stand her ground and try to get me to leave.

This time is very different, I personally caught her in the arms of another man. She must be embarrased or afraid to come home. There has been no huge arguement about me daring to question or accuse her. She finally cant turn this around on me. I'm glad I finally found out and I dont plan to try and fix this. Its over, but I cant get that horrible scene out of my head. I'm trying to stay calm, but i'm phisically sickened by all of this and the thought of living seperatley from the kids. A day that I cant spend with them is one day too many. 

Im afraidshe is telling lies to them ,making them think they need to hide from me like she does. Little do they know their ***** mother is screwing their uncles friend. My hands are tied for now. This storm has me worried about my kids. I dony want to go sit in my empty house all evening but cant do much in a hurrcane. Considering a trip to the casino, I never go there and I have nobody to go with but it beats staring at the wall all night. Maybe I'll find some single women to talk to. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander right ?


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your hands aren't tied, once this storm passe you can beg borrow and steal to retain a lawyer and get temporary visitation order.

Have you asked her father to go get the kids for you so you can visit them?

Can you go back to the in laws and ask them to make a phone call so you can at least talk to your kids?

It seems to me that the in laws are a great resource and you aren't using them. For to day it might be your best option to make contact with your kids.

If it was me I would go back to the inlaws and hang out. maybe the FIL can find a contact that will help you....maybe a cop that can take you for a quick visit. Maybe you can call on some of the cops that know the deal and ask them for a 1/2 hour of there time to check on the wellfare of the kids. Especially during a hurricane, and the wife not having any concern for her own property...the home of there young children..... something is wrong with that and it is very concerning. again ask for a welfare check even if you can't go along.

Who knows the cops might witness something that will cause them to remove the kids and bring them to you or the in laws.

if it was me the last thing I would want is my ex wife pointing fingers at me for going to a casino during a strom like this and not being around. Thats why being with your in laws is good damage control for you....not the casino! 

Have you called CPS with regards to the welfare of the kids when you did see them in the past?


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Lawyer time. She can't hide your children's from you. If she want to hide fine. Do it now. do it legaly.
Stop texting treats, don't be nasty at all. Help yourself. Rhink mid/long term.
Embrace the 180, live it.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Hope all is ok for you following the storm. 

Be good, and plan plan plan.


----------

