# When to end marriage?



## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

My husband and I are having problems. Nothing dealing with infidelity or abuse but issues of communication, working together, understanding, respect, etc. These issues have been going on for the entire 4 years we've been married. 

Today I told him I found a counselor and he flat out refused to go. The things that have been going on between us have
broken me down completely. 

Idk what else to do. To those that have ended a marriage due to issues other than infidelity or violence when did you know it was time to go?


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Why does he say he won't go?


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

Drover said:


> Why does he say he won't go?


Because he doesn't want to and that if I just do what he tells me to things will get better. 

The entire time I explained why we should go to counseling he was only focusing on himself as apposed to focusing on us. I understand that I don't do everything right in the marriage which was one of the reasons for going. However, he feels that I should be able to listen to him and do as I'm told. Not once did he focus on his negative aspects of the marriage. I truly believe I'm dealing with a narcissist.
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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

So you want him to try your way of fixing things but you don't want to try his way?

What is it he wants you to try?


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## bluelaser (May 26, 2012)

2bloved said:


> To those that have ended a marriage due to issues other than infidelity or violence when did you know it was time to go?


People generally lack the courage to leave when things are bearable in any marriage (unless there is an om/ow or abuse involved). The day you fear/cringe at his very presence is the day you know is the time to leave.

Check out 'walk away wife syndrome'. Looks like you may just become one in a few years.
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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

Drover said:


> So you want him to try your way of fixing things but you don't want to try his way?
> 
> What is it he wants you to try?


I do the things he ask or rather tells me to do. Just not to his liking. I'm a SAHM and he wants a spotless house all of the time. He said the main things he wants from me is a clean house and to do want he wants me to do. I can do those things but he couldn't care less about what I want from him or my feelings. He constantly reminds me of all of the things he does and the sacrifices he makes. He never acknowledges the things I do and if he does it's never good enough for him. I constantly feel like a failure and no good because nothing is never good enough. 

I wish I could tape a day in our lives BC it would be easier to explain lol.
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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

bluelaser said:


> People generally lack the courage to leave when things are bearable in any marriage (unless there is an om/ow or abuse involved). The day you fear/cringe at his very presence is the day you know is the time to leave.
> 
> Check out 'walk away wife syndrome'. Looks like you may just become one in a few years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't fear him but I do cringe from his touch at times. I do feat leaving BC of what others may think and because I have no income. 

I've never heard of that syndrome but I will look it up now.
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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Ugh. Well right now it sounds like you're rewarding him for being a jackass so why should he change his behavior?


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

I read up on the syndrome and I have expressed my unhappiness prior to mentioning counseling or divorce. He knows that my heart is broke and that I've been depressed. When I tell him this, he either says "I don't know why you feel like that" (even thought I just told him) or I get no response at all. There have even been times when I felt like ending my life and told him that...no response from him. There also been times when I'm crying my eyes out and still no response. With that being said, I don't think I fit all of the criteria, but some of it.
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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

Drover said:


> Ugh. Well right now it sounds like you're rewarding him for being a jackass so why should he change his behavior?


I'm literally lol because I call him a jackass (in my head of course) all of the time. 
I guess I'm "rewarding" him because we are married and I'm hoping that one day he opens his eyes. I didn't want to give up and I want to at least attempt to be a good wife just to say I tried and did my best.
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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

This is not an equal relationship and you know that. Your husband is being extremely selfish and self-serving and he will continue to remain that way as long as you allow it. He is being mentally abusive and that's just as bad as being physically so. 

I'm wondering just how one-sided this relationship is...Does he help out with the care of your children? Does he help out in any way around the house? Are any of your needs being met sexually? Do you and your husband go out every now and then or otherwise have time to yourselves to connect? If anything, you might want to go to counseling for yourself to work on your own issues and possibly find the tools to help deal with your husband.

If you continue to allow him to bully you then nothing is going to change. One of the only things that seems to shock some people into realizing what they have and stand to lose, from what I've seen on TAM, is straight up separation, at least for a little while. You might not want to go that far because of your money situation, but you have to do something to let him know that this is serious and that his behavior (lack of respect, etc...) is going to erode your marriage.


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

tm84 said:


> This is not an equal relationship and you know that. Your husband is being extremely selfish and self-serving and he will continue to remain that way as long as you allow it. He is being mentally abusive and that's just as bad as being physically so.
> 
> I'm wondering just how one-sided this relationship is...Does he help out with the care of your children? Does he help out in any way around the house? Are any of your needs being met sexually? Do you and your husband go out every now and then or otherwise have time to yourselves to connect? If anything, you might want to go to counseling for yourself to work on your own issues and possibly find the tools to help deal with your husband.
> 
> If you continue to allow him to bully you then nothing is going to change. One of the only things that seems to shock some people into realizing what they have and stand to lose, from what I've seen on TAM, is straight up separation, at least for a little while. You might not want to go that far because of your money situation, but you have to do something to let him know that this is serious and that his behavior (lack of respect, etc...) is going to erode your marriage.


Harsh truths lol! Thanks though. But yes, I do feel that he can be mentally abusive now that I think about it. 
He doesn't really help much with the children. I typically have to ask him to do things instead of him taking the initiative. He rarely helps out around the house, but when he does he tells me how I need to do better. He doesn't realize how exhausted I really am on a typically day. 

Sex? Blah...I never want it. I only have sex to please him.

We rarely go out. Hes often "busy" doing things outside of the home so there isn't much time for me and him. I believe the last time we went out was July?? And we argued that night! 

I have compntemplated counseling for myself because I feel like I'm at the lowest point I've ever been in my life. With the way things are going, I'm not sure I want to deal with him.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Make the appointment and go. He may come along, he may not. Either way, you go.

You sound like you have Stockholm Syndrome, where you are emotionally abused but can't get away from him. You need counseling in person rather than on the internet so you can get a good professional view of the situation.

There are ways for women to leave even if you have no financial resources. Your counselor can help you if he/she finds you are indeed in an abusive relationship.


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

Thor said:


> Make the appointment and go. He may come along, he may not. Either way, you go.
> 
> You sound like you have Stockholm Syndrome, where you are emotionally abused but can't get away from him. You need counseling in person rather than on the internet so you can get a good professional view of the situation.
> 
> There are ways for women to leave even if you have no financial resources. Your counselor can help you if he/she finds you are indeed in an abusive relationship.


Ill have to look that up, but I've honestly never thought about emotional abuse. That's really interesting. The counselor was found through the military as I'm in the national guard part time so I'm hoping the still allow me to see the counselor without my husband being there.
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## JamesStevl (Sep 19, 2012)

He never acknowledges the things I do and if he does it's never good enough for him


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> To those that have ended a marriage due to issues other than infidelity or violence when did you know it was time to go?


I knew it was time to go when I was no longer angry with my H; I just DIDN'T CARE anymore. Nothing he said or did or left unsaid or undone fazed me; I truly could not have cared less.

I also realized that not only did I not love him or like him, I didn't have respect for him as a person (my husband IS a narcissist and it's VERY emotionally draining.)

Despite being raised to believe that divorced people will go to hell, (which I no longer believe, by the way) I DIDN'T care about that either. The threat of hell didn't bother me compared to the hell I'd been living in for too long. I figured the REAL hell couldn't be any worse than the one here on earth.

When I realized I was wishing my life away; waiting for a better future that was never going to come. When I realized that I felt as if I was already DEAD - emotionally I was comatose. THAT scared me badly!

When I realized that although I was apparently willing to take his cr*p endlessly (we were together 20+ years), our minor daughter had NO CHOICE but to live with his verbal abuse. She couldn't leave unless *I* gave her a way out.

I no longer cared what my (extremely religious) parents and siblings thought about my getting a divorce. And guess what? They WERE ALL IN FAVOR OF ME LEAVING HIM! Yes, you read that right. My extremely religious Roman Catholic relatives WANTED me to leave him and file for divorce. Both of my brothers rented a truck and helped me move out!

I hope this helps YOU! This right here, helping someone else out in a similar situation, is what TAM is all about. Others were here for me and I will be here along with others from TAM whenever you need us! Wish I could meet up with you, give you a HUG and cry along with you 'cuz I REALLY KNOW where you are at.

It DOES get better! I left my STBXH in May and I HAVE NEVER BEEN HAPPIER. I've got a job, a relative is letting me stay for no rent, just some groceries and repayment of $$$ loaned to get away from STBXH. I sleep so well at night. I KNOW that I can climb my way out of debt that HE got us into. I feel better knowing that *I* am in control of my finances and that he can no longer put my future in jeopardy. It is a blessing that I hope you find SOON.


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I knew it was time to go when I was no longer angry with my H; I just DIDN'T CARE anymore. Nothing he said or did or left unsaid or undone fazed me; I truly could not have cared less.
> 
> I also realized that not only did I not love him or like him, I didn't have respect for him as a person (my husband IS a narcissist and it's VERY emotionally draining.)
> 
> ...


This really helped A LOT!!! I hope that I can.be strong and make the right decisions.

What narcissistic traits did your husband present throughout your marriage?
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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Here's one bit of advice I'd like to give you: don't waste your precious time trying to label the type of disorder your husband has. Is he a narcissist? Actually, he may not be. There are a plethora of personality disorders that fill the DSM-IV, and he could fit any number of them. (BTW, I was married to a narcissist, and it was pretty darned scary!)

Here is what you DO know and what is valuable to you in moving forward with your life:

Your husband is abusively controlling
Your husband is not emotionally invested in your's and his marriage
Your husband does not respect your feelings
Your husband is a self-serving jerk
Your husband wants things his way. Period. You. Do. Not. Count.

I think that about covers it ...

So what to do? You get a free consultation with a family law attorney. You find out what your rights are from a financial perspective. You get all the information you can from county and state non-profit associations that have job training for SAHM's, child-care, skills-building, educational opportunities, etc.

It IS out there to be had. Trust me. I've been there. I have at least 15 pages of community-based assistance groups - from food to clothing to shelter to counseling - and I got it because if I find myself in a situation where I can help someone in my area, I have plenty of resources.

As bad as our economy is at this time, the government at all levels still offers services to deserving people. 

So quit trying to diagnosis your a$$hole of a husband, and start putting your energy into obtaining what you need to have a decent life. You deserve it!


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## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

2bL

This saddens me. If it is true that you are doing the best you can to fix yourself, your marriage and home, I can only suggest you demand some respect from your husband. You see bullies get away with what they do because those who get bullied fail to stand up for themselves. They keep taking it and taking more before they go and commit suicide or something.

DO NOT TAKE IT. HAVE SOME DIGNITY. ASSERT YOURSELF. Please don't nag. Please try to be constructive. Crucially, communicate your love and commitment to your marriage and family but make clear that you cannot continue this way. He needs to know very clearly that even though you love him, you will not continue living with his crap.

Was he this way before you got married? My heart goes out to you. Stay strong ma'am


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Here's one bit of advice I'd like to give you: don't waste your precious time trying to label the type of disorder your husband has. Is he a narcissist? Actually, he may not be. There are a plethora of personality disorders that fill the DSM-IV, and he could fit any number of them. (BTW, I was married to a narcissist, and it was pretty darned scary!)
> 
> Here is what you DO know and what is valuable to you in moving forward with your life:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice! Focusing on me is what I need to do. I just never really knew how unfortunately.
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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

iBolt said:


> 2bL
> 
> This saddens me. If it is true that you are doing the best you can to fix yourself, your marriage and home, I can only suggest you demand some respect from your husband. You see bullies get away with what they do because those who get bullied fail to stand up for themselves. They keep taking it and taking more before they go and commit suicide or something.
> 
> ...


He wasn't this way at all. It wasn't until he had to fully provide for me as his wife. I felt like a burden to him because he always goes off about his sacrifices, him working hard etc. I understand all of that, but yet he drills it to me like a parent who is trying to tell a child about all of the things they do for them. 

He doesn't understand that I made sacrifices as well. The few times where he tries to act like he understands, they are never good enough for him because they aren't on his level.
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## kgirl (Sep 5, 2012)

Sounds like he does have some control issues... he wants to control you. That is not a healthy relationship.
Remember (or re-discover) your own value through all of this, you are worthy of opinions, and ideas, and happiness.
I agree... go to counselling. It'll be good for you either way, especially since you're dipping into depression sometimes. That alone, can magnify any problem.


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## Paradise (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm going to chime in and present another side for debate. We are all hearing one side of the story here. Yes, I think it is horrible that you have suggested marriage counseling and he has refused. That is on him, completely. But, I have to hesitate at everyone reading a few paragraphs and mapping out your exit. 

You need to go to counseling on your own right now. I also think you need to spend some time doing your own thing. Start looking for a job. Start looking for ways to enhance your life. Make yourself happy. And the next time he complains about something in the house, wrap up some cleaning supplies and attach a note telling him to do that sh!t himself.


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

kgirl said:


> Sounds like he does have some control issues... he wants to control you. That is not a healthy relationship.
> Remember (or re-discover) your own value through all of this, you are worthy of opinions, and ideas, and happiness.
> I agree... go to counselling. It'll be good for you either way, especially since you're dipping into depression sometimes. That alone, can magnify any problem.


Counseling for myself is probably a good idea. I just wish things didn't have to be this way. I can say that over the years I have lost myself and it's time for me to do something about that while I'm young.
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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

Paradise said:


> I'm going to chime in and present another side for debate. We are all hearing one side of the story here. Yes, I think it is horrible that you have suggested marriage counseling and he has refused. That is on him, completely. But, I have to hesitate at everyone reading a few paragraphs and mapping out your exit.
> 
> You need to go to counseling on your own right now. I also think you need to spend some time doing your own thing. Start looking for a job. Start looking for ways to enhance your life. Make yourself happy. And the next time he complains about something in the house, wrap up some cleaning supplies and attach a note telling him to do that sh!t himself.


Lol! I've tried that and it leads to an even bigger argument. Lately, I've been trying to avoid arguments because I've started to not care.
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## kgirl (Sep 5, 2012)

2bloved said:


> I can say that over the years I have lost myself and it's time for me to do something about that while I'm young.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:
Yes, find yourself! Go on a big adventure to find who you truly are now. Be who you want to be. You may find that not to be who you would have thought it would be. Our personalities do change over time and because of experiences and influences. In doing so, you will be happier, and probably healthier. You gotta be "you" first... before you can be a great wife or mom, or employee or friend... sit down with a piece of paper and dream a little... "who do I want to be?" Write it down, post it somewhere, and start taking baby steps on how to get there. (And, you may already be many of those things.)


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

kgirl said:


> :iagree:
> Yes, find yourself! Go on a big adventure to find who you truly are now. Be who you want to be. You may find that not to be who you would have thought it would be. Our personalities do change over time and because of experiences and influences. In doing so, you will be happier, and probably healthier. You gotta be "you" first... before you can be a great wife or mom, or employee or friend... sit down with a piece of paper and dream a little... "who do I want to be?" Write it down, post it somewhere, and start taking baby steps on how to get there. (And, you may already be many of those things.)


I actually have started! I've begun to lose weight and I'm also working on my bucket list!
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## kgirl (Sep 5, 2012)

Awesome! I'm happy for you! You, go, girl! Keep posting on the progress! Each step is exciting! Lots of supportive people on here.


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## d0cking (Jul 26, 2012)

2bloved said:


> Lol! I've tried that and it leads to an even bigger argument. Lately, I've been trying to avoid arguments because I've started to not care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've not posted here before but, let me say this... Do not let yourself get to the point of not caring... From what you have describbed.. He has some issues... You do need to stand up for yourself... It will get worse if you do not... Go to you counselor... I hope he goes... Many of us men are "too proud" to go to a marriage counselor. But.. He needs to know you are not putting up with it... Please don't wait til you do not care anymore!! If he was not this way before then there might some issues triggering this... Even tho you have told him your feelings and he seems to be hearing you... He is not hearing you if he loves you... He needs to see how he is loosing you before you are gone! Good Luck..


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> What narcissistic traits did your husband present throughout your marriage?


Everything must be HIS way (where we lived, what we drove, where we vacationed, how we spent money, etc.)

He had little/no interest in our child; when I would ask him to play with her, he would say, "I don't want to do THAT...it's BORING!"

He has NO empathy for other people.

He is hyper-critical of other people.

He honestly CANNOT understand/comprehend that someone could legitimately have a differing viewpoint from his. If you disagree with him you're either 'stupid' or 'stubborn'...and he's SERIOUS! Once we were looking at couches on-line. He had chosen a lot of VERY ORNATE pieces, I prefer more of a Stickley-style. He accused me of disagreeing with his choices JUST PURELY TO P*SS HIM OFF! I said, "Why would I DO that?!?" and he had no answer.

He got us severely in debt (more than once) with his business ventures. When they didn't work out, he REFUSED to work for someone else. He has borrowed ENDLESS amounts of money ($356,000+) from friends and relatives over the last 20 years.

Is always talking about how RICH he's going to be (like Rockefeller rich) although he's 60+ years old...not likely to happen. Lives in the FUTURE (how it's GOING to be) instead of the PRESENT (how it ACTUALLY IS.)

Although he knew bill collectors were dunning us, he would STILL continue to indulge his hobbies/wishes just because he wanted to.

Would LIE to me CONSTANTLY about money.

When I would tell him (because *I* kept the checkbook to ensure the bills were paid), "Look, we only have $XX and we have X, Y, Z bills coming due." he would look at me and calmly declare, "You're just MAKING SH*T UP TO WORRY ABOUT." wtf?!?

As Prodigal pointed out, it doesn't really matter WHAT FLAVOR of mental health issue your H has, he's got one and it's KILLING YOU (from the inside out.) Get the help you need. IF you don't know WHERE to start, call an ABUSED WOMEN'S helpline...you ARE being abused, even if he's never touched you.

Get out, get out, get out! The advice to let you H know you're serious about leaving him is well-meant, but YOU ARE IN A SICK ABUSIVE relationship and it will NOT ever be normal.

Good luck to you and keep coming back. But take the FIRST STEP THIS VERY WEEK. Ask at the library for resources for women (call their Reference desk anonymously). Look in your phone book. Google it for your area. DO SOMETHING. That alone will make you start to feel better and more in control. Once you get out of that situation DAILY you will be AMAZED at how quickly you'll start to feel like your old in-control, all-grown-up self!

**HUGS**


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

kgirl said:


> Awesome! I'm happy for you! You, go, girl! Keep posting on the progress! Each step is exciting! Lots of supportive people on here.


Thank you 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

d0cking said:


> I've not posted here before but, let me say this... Do not let yourself get to the point of not caring... From what you have describbed.. He has some issues... You do need to stand up for yourself... It will get worse if you do not... Go to you counselor... I hope he goes... Many of us men are "too proud" to go to a marriage counselor. But.. He needs to know you are not putting up with it... Please don't wait til you do not care anymore!! If he was not this way before then there might some issues triggering this... Even tho you have told him your feelings and he seems to be hearing you... He is not hearing you if he loves you... He needs to see how he is loosing you before you are gone! Good Luck..


He is losing a good woman! I'm going to talk yo him again about counseling. If things don't work out at least I can be satisfied in knowing that I tried.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

Sorry if I missed this but how old are you? You say your husband is 60+ and has borrowed in excess of $300k+ from friends and family. You either have over 300,000 friends each loaning $1 or you have some wealthy friends. Good grief, this is one of those times I feel compelled to say you MUST look out for number one I.e YOU as we say in England. 

Please save yourself at least the bit you have remaining intact
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Everything must be HIS way (where we lived, what we drove, where we vacationed, how we spent money, etc.)
> 
> He had little/no interest in our child; when I would ask him to play with her, he would say, "I don't want to do THAT...it's BORING!"
> 
> ...


Wow! My does some of those things as well. He has gotten into fixing old houses and trailers and in the process has nearly depleted our savings. He says he's doing this to secure our future, but I often have to ask him what about our present. 

He wants to be able to retire in his 30's and not work for someone else. I don't see that happening now as he is 27 years old unless he wins the lottery. 

I also don't think he comprehends things to well. He absolutely blew my mind when he told me he thinks things will get better if I do what he wanted me to do! No mention of my feelings or the things I need from him. I thought that was so crazy! 

You are right in that I do need to do things for myself. While I do have a place to go, (my parents) I won't have the income to supply the basic needs for my kids. 

Is there anything wrong with finding a job now so that I can eventually leave if things don't get better?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

iBolt said:


> Sorry if I missed this but how old are you? You say your husband is 60+ and has borrowed in excess of $300k+ from friends and family. You either have over 300,000 friends each loaning $1 or you have some wealthy friends. Good grief, this is one of those times I feel compelled to say you MUST look out for number one I.e YOU as we say in England.
> 
> Please save yourself at least the bit you have remaining intact
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm 27. The person you're speaking of was mentioning her situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iBolt (Aug 28, 2012)

2bloved said:


> I'm 27. The person you're speaking of was mentioning her situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My bad. 

How many kids do you have together?


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## 2bloved (Sep 18, 2012)

iBolt said:


> My bad.
> 
> How many kids do you have together?


2. 20 months and 1 week shy of 5
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> You are right in that I do need to do things for myself. While I do have a place to go, (my parents) I won't have the income to supply the basic needs for my kids.
> 
> Is there anything wrong with finding a job now so that I can eventually leave if things don't get better?


1.) REMEMBER, you do not have to supply the basic needs for your kids BY YOURSELF. The courts will order your H to pay for your children as well. If he does not, they can take his wages (but THAT takes a LONG TIME.) Point is: it is NOT YOU BY YOURSELF supporting your kids. You BOTH MADE 'EM, you BOTH support 'em.

2.)It is BEST to start looking for a job now. It can only improve your financial situation (which is now practically savings-less). It may take longer than you anticipate to find a job you like, so better to start soon.

*Don't dwell on the negatives, concentrate on the positives.* I was devastated when I had to put my only child in pre-school because I *HAD* to work due to our precarious financial situation. (I was 40yo when I had her and H & I agreed I would be a SAHM.) A really good friend told me to concentrate on the good things that she would get from pre-school: friends, since she was an only child and we lived semi-rurally there were no other children to play with; learning to share; learning her alphabet and other curriculum; etc.


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