# Expectations, Reality, and What is Reasonable?



## scurfer11 (Nov 25, 2014)

First time to this forum and honestly desperate for help. A little bit of background first. I met my wife in 2011, we dated, and after 13 months of dating I proposed. We were married in December of 2012 so we've been married almost 2 years now. I was 24 years old at the time. We both come from strong Christian values (not pointing the finger at others, just a statement of what guided much of our courtship). As such, we did not have sex with each other until our wedding day. And I mean nothing. The furthest we went was doing dry humping and no hands over any private areas of the body. Maybe some butt grabbing.

My point being, is that based on how difficult it was for us to keep our hands off each other before marriage, between the makeout sessions and the dry stuff, I expected a somewhat better sex life. I really feel that I was fooled. The wedding night we only did it twice. Maybe more than some can pull in a row, but for me losing my virginity plus the occasion of a wedding night, I had a few more rounds I could've gone. The connection and intimacy that we had the first time was real and it was profound to me. But after the 2 times she said she was tired and she went to sleep. And I really was okay with it. Here was my sweetheart, we'd had a great wedding day, and I got that she'd be tired. Heck, I was tired too. The following week during the honeymoon, we maybe did it once a day and skipped a day or two of that week. Again, I thought that maybe this was normal and that I shouldn't place unreal expectations on my wife. Maybe all those things I hear about people going wild on each other on the honeymoon were exaggerations. Upon getting home from the honeymoon, we maybe had sex almost once a week for the first 6 months. Then every other week for the rest of our first year.

I was hurt. I had saved myself for my whole life for this one woman that I was under the impression would be a minx (if our makeout sessions were anything to gauge by), and she really didn't seem to care for intimacy once the wedding had passed. We sat down and had a heartfelt talk with each other after this had been going on for our first year. She admitted to me that she just didn't seem to have the drive and that she really was trying hard to meet my needs as a husband. To me, that's all I think that I can ask of her. I have asked what I can do from my end and she never gives me any feedback on what I can do. 

She has tried very hard this second year of marriage, but I am still having a hard time finding intimacy with her. Everytime I try to initiate any foreplay besides kissing or grinding with her, she pushes my hand away (or my face away) so I've given up entirely with that. About the only time during the week that she'll initiate anything is about 5 minutes before I have to be out the door to work. And I mean out the door. Not putting my shoes on, grabbing my jacket, and getting my lunch out of the fridge. I mean turning the knob and walking out. That means that at her "invitation" I have less than 2 minutes push through it and then be fully clothed again and all my things together to get out the door on time. Then when I have accepted her "invitation" I've been 15-20 minutes late to work because the 5 minute window I missed allows 20 minutes worth of rush hour traffic to build up. I'm a college graduate working in a professional environment and it's not acceptable to be late to work at all let alone on a regular basis. I've even tried waking up earlier because I thought I saw a pattern where maybe she was only in the mood in the morning. But no, it's only ever 5 minutes before I need to leave. And the times that I do accept, it's only about 10% of the times that she actually really wanted to do it. The other 90% she does it because she feels obligated to. I appreciate that she's trying but it's hard for me that 90% of times because the entire vibe she's giving off is that I need to finish as quickly as possible. And I do need to finish as quickly as possible. Because I need to get to work.

And finally her latest effort, is that she'll initiate something in evening time before bed when she's tired. She'll sort of brush against my junk for a couple minutes and I'll get excited. Then she'll just have her hand there unmoving for 5 minutes so I think she's fallen asleep. I get unexcited. Then she moves again after those 5 minutes of inactivity. Another 2 minutes. I get excited. She stops moving. Repeat that cycle for 30 minutes. Then she wants to move to the bed. I think that it's on. Well guess what. She does that for another 15 minutes in the bed. When she finally decides it's time do the deed, it's been 45 minutes of confusion and my guy doesn't feel like standing at attention after so many false alarms. Then she gets hurt that I'm not in the mood anymore.

I love my wife dearly. She is the sweetest woman that anyone will ever meet. The kindness that she displays to me and to others never ceases to amaze me. The acts she thinks to do to help others are things that never occur to me. One of the many reasons I decided to marry her is that I had never been okay with the thought of getting married to any of my previous girlfriends. I'm not sure if that sounds strange or not but everything about our relationship just felt right. After 2 years of marriage, I love her even more. This whole sex thing though is just awkward and I'm not sure what to do. Every time I try to bring up discussions about our sex life, I never get the opportunity to truly express all of my frustrations. She goes into this shut-down mode where nothing gets through.

What do I do????


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Well, I always advocate sex before marriage, and sexual exploaration. You can try different things with your wife and see what you have in common sexually. the tragic part is, you two might not be sexually compatible. Here is how to learn to become better. Communicate during sex. Ask her to be more vocal, and you should be vocal too. 

Another concern of mine is that the communication between the two of you is lacking. How well do you convey your emotions, and from the sound of it, she emotionally shuts down. Seek a counselor to help learn communication, and perhaps your sex will be better. Or, if your not compatible sexually, you may have to think about being together, or find a way for an open marriage to work. For example, lets say that she discovers she is into bdsm,and that is not your cup of tea, you will have major issues. You won't be what she needs, and she can't be the type of girl you want. A good counselor will seek what is the best for you individually.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

There are many good things about religion and many not so good ones.

Advocating no sex before marriage is one of the not so good ones.

If I say any more I'll probably get banned, so I won't.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

scurfer11,
it sounds to me like both of you have difficulty initiating sex. You need to discuss this! Details like the best times of day (morning or nite?), situations (not minutes before work), and the mechanics to let your partner know when you are initiating (physical touch? verbal?). Also discuss how to reject your partner. This too is very important because obviously there will be times when one or the other can't do it, and you each want to know the best way to get that message across with minimal sting (my preference is that she doesn't now tell me NO but rather she picks a better time in the near future when I should try again .... and she will say YES).

Seriously man I think a few calm discussions about HowToInitiate and HowToReject sex would make a big difference for you both.


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## 1971 (Mar 7, 2013)

When two people become one they really don't know a lot about keeping a marriage healthy. I recommend seeking professional help if you two can't work things out soon enough. I waited to long to try and fix it.

.


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## Elizabeth50 (Nov 19, 2014)

Good for you for waiting. There are a couple of things that I see here. Your expectations for the honeymoon were driven by Hollywood. The truth is that sex probably hurt for her that first week. My husband and I were also virgins and it hurt for the first several months every time we had sex... In fact, it wasn't until I had my first child that it really quit. I realize now that we should have used some kind of lube.

Also, you mention her doing all of these things, but what are you doing FOR HER??? I need my husband to concentrate on me for a minimum of 30 minutes before I am ready for sex.. It just takes my mind that long to get ready for it and to truly enjoy it. I've seen the analogy that men are like microwaves and ladies are like crockpots and I think that is true.

It is going to be hard, but you will need to talk about this. My husband and I did not for the first 20 years of our marriage. I just magically expected him to know what I liked and wanted. I have only in the last year started to talk and ask, but it has been really really hard...and just as we made progress a medical issue happened that may have stopped our sex life forever... It makes me so sad... So don't wait. Have those conversations now.

Here is a church that has some fabulous resources. They are free. You do have to register, but I have never gotten spam or anything else from them. They have some great date nights that have great questions. You may want to do some of them first.
Woodland Hills Family Church | Date Night Challenge | Branson, Missouri 65616

But then they have this one that is all about sex. I wish I had the courage to use it, but in light of the medical problems, probably not... But the questions are awesome... You may find out a lot about her if you are willing to listen and not get defensive.
Woodland Hills Family Church | 52 Questions Menu | Branson, Missouri 65616

Good luck!!! It goes without saying to bathe this all in prayer. Also, you might consider visiting The Marriage bed which is a Christian site about sex in marriage.


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## Elizabeth50 (Nov 19, 2014)

Personal said:


> I hope you both have a happy anniversary next month.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm sorry but you just don't get it... My husband and I dated for 2 1/2 years before we married and had sex. Yes, it was hard. Yes, it could have come easily but GOD'S WORD SAID NOT TO!!!!!!!! For some of us, we care much more what God's word says than our selfish desire. He wants what is best for us. But to say that not having sex means you don't want it is just false. As I said, you may consider going to a Christian site that discusses sex as there are apparently a lot of views on here. Good grief, on another thread they advised a guy to go find someone else to have sex with... 

So, please be very careful where you get your advice from!!!! God can be trusted. Don't give up!!!


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Regarding no sex before marriage, that is not your problem. That was a social norm for thousands of years and yet humanity and marriage survived.

It does somewhat suck that your wife did not give you a honeymoon period. The thought of sex 5 times on your wedding night is not realistic for a woman to perform, so possibly you pressured her too much and have turned her off.

Regarding sex 5 minutes before you leave the house. She does this to appease her own guilt... She can say she initiated but is doing it in such a way that you can't really accept. So first step is to tell her that you apprecaite the offer but you need to get to work and you will take a rain check for tonight. Never accept sex under these conditions.

Regarding her slow way of initiating, what I suggest is if she does anything to initiate, you then take over and tell her to get into bed and take her clothes off.

There is a huge amount I could write, but what you need to know is that women and men view sex very differently. You as a man, if a woman has sex with you it proves to you that she loves you. Does a man prove to a woman that he loves her by wanting to have sex with her? He can't becuase all men she ever met wanted to have sex with her. So why does a woman become sexual? Note, there are women this does not apply to but your wife is not one of them.

-- To have a baby
-- To keep a man interested in her

She needs to make excuses to herself to become sexual.

But the thing is really there are two things you need to focus on. Make her feel safe enough to open up to you sexually and make her feel unsafe to not open up to you sexually. That is the formula. So I'll start with the easy one. Are you making her feel safe enough to open up to you sexually? Hint in order to do this you need to act like a man, whereas the typical sex starved man acts more like a child.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

First and foremost, don't even think about the possibility that you two are not sexually compatible - at least not yet, anyway. Only negative things will go through your mind if that's what you (and we) jump to right away.

The fact is, neither of you have sexual experience. Not with each other, not with anybody else.

Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that neither of you know how to have sex. I don't mean the mechanics of it (that's pretty self-explanatory). I mean the ins and outs (no pun intended).

For those of us who did not wait til marriage, we used the experiences we had to learn. I can clearly remember how bad my first sexual experiences were, at least relative to what I now know. The first time I had sex, foreplay was a little bit of kissing, then I put it in. Little did we know that there's much more to it than that. Especially for her sake. I was with my first girlfriend for 3 years or so, and, although we learned a lot in that time, we were still relative amateurs.

Fast forward some 20 years, and my first girlfriend and I got back together, and ended up getting married. In between I had a few girlfriends, and an ex wife. She had several long term relationships and a few short ones - standard stuff.

The difference in our sex life was night and day. Why? Because we had many years of experience, learned a lot along the way, and put it all together.

I am not advocating pre-marital sex if that is not for you, honestly. But, the fact is, it is massively beneficial in terms of your future sex life, and knowing what to do and how to do it.

You CAN get this information by having one partner and one partner only, absolutely. But each person needs to recognize that neither of you know what you're doing, and therefore you need to communicate, experiment, talk, and generally figure it out as you go.

In the case of both my wife and I, we were each other's firsts. We knew nothing, other than the mechanics of it. Penis goes in vagina. Neither of us figured out all that much over the 3 years we were together, mostly because we just didn't communicate all that much in regards to sex.

After we broke up, both of us had other partners of varying degrees of experience. These partners taught us things we didn't know. By the time we got back together in our 30's, both of us knew what made the opposite sex tick. And we're still learning, believe it or not.

You two have the advantage of being each others firsts. You, and she, are blank slates, which is actually kind of awesome. Not only do the two of you need to figure out what makes the opposite sex tick, you need to find out what makes each of YOU tick. This can only be done with communication and experimentation.

My guess is that neither of you know what the other likes just yet. It seems as though your wife is under the assumption that men will be perfectly happy, and only require, a few minutes of attention and all is good. Perhaps you are under the assumption that women operate under the same frequency as men do and that they're "ready to go" at the drop of a hat. It is much more complex than that.

Your wife, like many women, may require non-sexual things to get her in the mood, spread out over hours, or even days. Attentiveness, non-sexual intimacy (cuddling, holding hands), etc. Things that should be done anyway, and done without the expectation of sex. She needs to learn that a quickie 2 minutes before you're out the door is not satisfactory to you.

She may require 20 minutes, 1/2 an hour, or more of sexual foreplay before you have intercourse. This could include non-sexual touching, a lot of kissing, and oral sex, for example. The vast majority of women require more than 2 minutes of foreplay before they're FULLY ready for intercourse. Yes, the vagina may be suitably lubricated after 2 minutes of fooling around, but often they're not fully aroused. The vagina does other things to get ready for a penis to be inserted. The longer you take, the more she'll want it, to the point where she might beg you to put it in. Don't assume that she's ready simply because her vagina is lubricated enough for you to put it in.

In any case, don't worry about the lack of experience. Turn this into a voyage of discovery and strive (both of you) to learn what makes each other tick, as well as the opposite sex. Don't be afraid to tell her what you want, or would like to try, and let her know that you want to hear what she has to say as well. Women are much more complex than men sexually, and they're also all very different. But they all, for the most part, require varying degrees and types of foreplay before they're fully aroused, mentally AND physically. Often it's the mental aspect that we men disregard.

Some quick suggestions:

- communicate a LOT
- find a good book or two and read them together
- don't default to toys like vibrators, even though the temptation might be there. She, especially, needs to learn about her body and how it interacts with yours FIRST. Vibrators are an add-on of sorts, not a replacement, and they do things we men can't
- pay attention to the little things, especially the non-sexual ones - meet her needs outside of the bedroom. If you don't know exactly what they are, ask
- work on your oral sex skills, it may not be as straight-forward as you assume it is
- don't pressure her, don't talk about sex, or your sex life, ad nauseum

Good luck!


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Alex's advice was spot on. It is going to take you two quite some time to figure this out. Listen carefully - do not have children until you figure it out or you may well look back on it as the biggest mistake of your life. There is no reason to feel any urgency for kids for at least another 3 or 4 years to put that off the table.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I agree, now that the honeymoon phase has worn off, and now you two are getting to the nitty gritty of things. I will be frank and say it wasn't the best start. Even when you talk about sex, mentally she shuts down. You have to ease her into it, and make her feel comfortable. This should help open dialogue. Don't try and attack her verbally when trying to get your message across. Your in the stage of figuring each other out. How to deal with conflict, boundaries, and forming a communication style. These are some issues you should deal first before tackling sex. Having a good responsive relationship will allow her to feel more at peace. When you develope good communication, the sex should improve simply by being able to explore and talk about what turns each of you on. Everyone has their own thing they enjoy. For example, talk about how often the each of you would like to have sex. This will give you both a realistic expectation of what the other wants.


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## Elizabeth50 (Nov 19, 2014)

I stand by what I said. You do not get how important our relationship to God is and doing what HIS word says.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I second Elizabeth's suggestion for Woodland Hills as a resource. Very pro-marriage, pro-marital sex congregation.

I also believe nothing wrong with exploring your sexuality before marriage. I don't toe the church's line on this one, sorry. Too many people get burned in sexually mismatched marriages that could be prevented if people understood themselves and their partners better before tying the knot.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I cringe when spouses post about being christian virgins prior to marriage. I have no problems with being christian, nor do I have any issue with remaining chaste prior to marriage. What I have a problem with is how virgin are raised and how that teaches them NOTHING about the most important factor of a happy marriage, SEX!

It is rare indeed when a christian virgin female is raised to both keep herself chaste AND embrace the sexual feelings she is developing. Granted, as a parent it is a Herculean task to teach acceptance on your child's developing sexuality while also insisting on chastity. Tricky tricky tricky. So what usually happens is only a message of chastity by ignoring or demonizing the developing, real, and healthy sexual feelings. This, IMO, is where Christianity fails on an epic scale.

So what can you do now?

You're going to have to teach your wife to embrace her sexual feelings openly and that means YOU'RE going to have to take the lead.

You can't assume she doesn't have sexual interest but you can assume she actively subverts it because that is all she have been taught to do.

If Fozzy recommend this Woodbridge thing, I suggest you pour your heat and soul into helping your wife learn to embrace her sexual self and then learn to express her sexual self.

This will take a while so buckle in.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

scurfer11 said:


> My point being, is that based on how difficult it was for us to keep our hands off each other before marriage, between the makeout sessions and the dry stuff, I expected a somewhat better sex life. I really feel that I was fooled. The wedding night we only did it twice. Maybe more than some can pull in a row, but for me losing my virginity plus the occasion of a wedding night, I had a few more rounds I could've gone. The connection and intimacy that we had the first time was real and it was profound to me. But after the 2 times she said she was tired and she went to sleep. And I really was okay with it. Here was my sweetheart, we'd had a great wedding day, and I got that she'd be tired. Heck, I was tired too.


Sex for a woman who is a virgin is rarely satisfying and sometimes painful. That first night, she might have been in pain. She probably didn't orgasm. Do you know if she was in pain the first time and second time, or if she had an orgasm?



> The following week during the honeymoon, we maybe did it once a day and skipped a day or two of that week. Again, I thought that maybe this was normal and that I shouldn't place unreal expectations on my wife. Maybe all those things I hear about people going wild on each other on the honeymoon were exaggerations. Upon getting home from the honeymoon, we maybe had sex almost once a week for the first 6 months. Then every other week for the rest of our first year.


Was she having orgasms during sex? Sometimes that's not easy for a woman who is new to sex, and sometimes it's not easy for women who have been having sex for years. If you'd never touched her before, would you say you knew how to touch her to give her an orgasm? Did you try oral? Did you talk about what touches felt good to her, and what didn't? Did you spend plenty of time on foreplay so as to get her aroused?

I'm not trying to be critical of your skills or anything, but a lot of women don't actually enjoy sex all that much when they first start having sex because they don't necessarily know what they need in order to enjoy it. And they might think there's something wrong with them for not enjoying it, and don't want to say anything for fear of hurting their partner or because they think the problems is with their own bodies. Instead, it's a lack of knowledge and a lack of communication, and that can be solved in time and with some education. 

It's really important, though, because a woman who isn't having orgasms and isn't enjoying sex is not going to be excited about having sex.



> I was hurt. I had saved myself for my whole life for this one woman that I was under the impression would be a minx (if our makeout sessions were anything to gauge by), and she really didn't seem to care for intimacy once the wedding had passed. We sat down and had a heartfelt talk with each other after this had been going on for our first year. She admitted to me that she just didn't seem to have the drive and that she really was trying hard to meet my needs as a husband. To me, that's all I think that I can ask of her. I have asked what I can do from my end and she never gives me any feedback on what I can do.


Did you ask her if she actually had orgasms and actually enjoyed having sex when she did have it? 

Did you ask her if she needed more foreplay? Did you ask her if you were touching her too hard, too soft, too fast, too slow? Did you ask her during oral if you had the right spot or should try softer pressure or more pressure or faster or slower? 

If she is finding it hard to communicate, maybe you can help her by asking questions while you are touching her or performing oral or during intercourse. 



> She has tried very hard this second year of marriage, but I am still having a hard time finding intimacy with her. Everytime I try to initiate any foreplay besides kissing or grinding with her, she pushes my hand away (or my face away) so I've given up entirely with that. About the only time during the week that she'll initiate anything is about 5 minutes before I have to be out the door to work. And I mean out the door. Not putting my shoes on, grabbing my jacket, and getting my lunch out of the fridge. I mean turning the knob and walking out. That means that at her "invitation" I have less than 2 minutes push through it and then be fully clothed again and all my things together to get out the door on time. Then when I have accepted her "invitation" I've been 15-20 minutes late to work because the 5 minute window I missed allows 20 minutes worth of rush hour traffic to build up. I'm a college graduate working in a professional environment and it's not acceptable to be late to work at all let alone on a regular basis. I've even tried waking up earlier because I thought I saw a pattern where maybe she was only in the mood in the morning. But no, it's only ever 5 minutes before I need to leave. And the times that I do accept, it's only about 10% of the times that she actually really wanted to do it. The other 90% she does it because she feels obligated to. I appreciate that she's trying but it's hard for me that 90% of times because the entire vibe she's giving off is that I need to finish as quickly as possible. And I do need to finish as quickly as possible. Because I need to get to work.


She isn't enjoying sex. It's not doing a thing for her. If she wants it over in 2 minutes, she's nowhere near excited or interested, and wants to get it over quickly.

Does she masturbate? Has she ever had an orgasm? Maybe she doesn't even know that she can, or how to have one.



> And finally her latest effort, is that she'll initiate something in evening time before bed when she's tired. She'll sort of brush against my junk for a couple minutes and I'll get excited. Then she'll just have her hand there unmoving for 5 minutes so I think she's fallen asleep. I get unexcited. Then she moves again after those 5 minutes of inactivity. Another 2 minutes. I get excited. She stops moving. Repeat that cycle for 30 minutes. Then she wants to move to the bed. I think that it's on. Well guess what. She does that for another 15 minutes in the bed. When she finally decides it's time do the deed, it's been 45 minutes of confusion and my guy doesn't feel like standing at attention after so many false alarms. Then she gets hurt that I'm not in the mood anymore.


I don't understand. When she touches you and leaves her hand there, why do you sit and do nothing? Why wouldn't you touch her then and take her up on her offer? She's touching you for a reason, right? Why are you passive and waiting doing nothing after she touches you?



> I love my wife dearly. She is the sweetest woman that anyone will ever meet. The kindness that she displays to me and to others never ceases to amaze me. The acts she thinks to do to help others are things that never occur to me. One of the many reasons I decided to marry her is that I had never been okay with the thought of getting married to any of my previous girlfriends. I'm not sure if that sounds strange or not but everything about our relationship just felt right. After 2 years of marriage, I love her even more. This whole sex thing though is just awkward and I'm not sure what to do. Every time I try to bring up discussions about our sex life, I never get the opportunity to truly express all of my frustrations. She goes into this shut-down mode where nothing gets through.
> 
> What do I do????


She knows you're frustrated. And she doesn't know what to do about it because she isn't enjoying sex. That's why she shuts down when you bring it up. She feels to blame.

She might also be getting the impression that sex is all you care about, and that you don't really care about her because you keep pushing for sex even though she really doesn't enjoy it. You obviously do care about her, so I would recommend making sure she understands that all day long and every day (don't compliment her just when you want sex), and that sex is not just about the physical release for you (2 minute quickies aren't satisfying because there is no intimate connection) and that you are very worried about HER pleasure.

Tell her that you're sad she doesn't enjoy sex, get some good reading material (She Comes First; Sheet Music...go to Amazon!), and ask her to read with you so you two can make HER sex life better and more satisfying.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

FWIW, the pastor at Woodland Hills is amazing. My church has him out a few times a year as a guest speaker. He's completely in the wait-until-marriage camp, but he's also outspoken about the church's failures as far as demonizing sex. He illustrates this as the church usually teaching "sex is dirty, wrong and gross, so you should save it for the one you really love".

OP, you need to have a serious talk about marital expectations, as well as reexamine what you think is normal. Only twice on your wedding night? I didn't consummate mine until 2 days after the wedding. I'm not saying my situation is normal--far from it, but you need to be reasonable as far as your wife's abilities to keep up with you.

Additionally, Elizabeth makes an excellent point that if your wife was a virgin on your wedding night, the fact that she was game for a second go is pretty spectacular imo.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

norajane said:


> *I don't understand. When she touches you and leaves her hand there, why do you sit and do nothing? Why wouldn't you touch her then and take her up on her offer? She's touching you for a reason, right? Why are you passive and waiting doing nothing after she touches you?*
> 
> 
> She knows you're frustrated. And she doesn't know what to do about it because she isn't enjoying sex. That's why she shuts down when you bring it up. She feels to blame.


If I may...

*ahem*

I've been in this particular situation before early in my marriage. For us it was a horrifying lack of communication--my wife was miserable at initiating, but excellent at rejection, while I was miserable at both.

If you have enough rejections, you get gun-shy and aren't willing to make anything happen without some assurance that there's going to be reciprocation. Couple this with my wife's EXTREMELY subtle initiations, and the "hand over the crotch" becomes more likely to just be her flopping over in her sleep than an initiation. Acting on that (in my mind at the time) becomes a good way to end up with another rejection.

Ridiculous on it's face, but that's what's going through his mind.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> If I may...
> 
> *ahem*
> 
> ...


I can understand that, Fozzy, but in this case she's actually stroking his crotch, repeatedly. That's not an accident and it doesn't seem subtle to me?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

norajane said:


> I can understand that, Fozzy, but in this case she's actually stroking his crotch, repeatedly. That's not an accident and it doesn't seem subtle to me?


My wife has fallen asleep stroking my crotch--repeatedly. Not initiating either--she's actually told me that she does not want sex--just wanted to "cup the boys" while drifting off to slumberland. I foolishly used to allow that. I no longer do. Talk about confusing...

ETA--what made it more confusing was that occasionally it WAS an initiation. But it was a straight up craps-shoot whether she was initiating or just putting cheese in the mousetrap.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

norajane said:


> I can understand that, Fozzy, but in this case she's actually stroking his crotch, repeatedly. That's not an accident and it doesn't seem subtle to me?


Roger, she's grabbed the handle aka sledgehammer to the head dude! Do not turn this down, do not discourage this direct approach 

If it ever turns out NOT to be an initiation as Fozzy is suggesting (very familiar with that mental state myself!) then a quick gentle conversation along the lines of "When you touch me like that it means you want sex, if you want to touch me like that and not be up for sex that's fine - you have to specifically tell me that when you start. Touch me anytime you want we just need to both know what is going on and I need the words if it isn't what I think it is."


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> My wife has fallen asleep stroking my crotch--repeatedly. Not initiating either--she's actually told me that she does not want sex--just wanted to "cup the boys" while drifting off to slumberland. I foolishly used to allow that. I no longer do. Talk about confusing...
> 
> ETA--what made it more confusing was that occasionally it WAS an initiation. But it was a straight up craps-shoot whether she was initiating or just putting cheese in the mousetrap.


Aww, I'm sorry to hear that such a gesture is fraught with peril in your sex life. It should be easier than this!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

When she pulls her sh(i)t, how do you respond? 

C


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

The story of my life.

Only I am the wife in your shoes, and I got married in Oct 2012.

Honestly after I read the first paragraph I had to do a double take. I thought maybe it was my husband posting.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Have your wife do some reading at: christiannymphos.org.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

karole said:


> Have your wife do some reading at: christiannymphos.org.


That is an excellent site for empowering christian women to embrace their sexual selves!


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## renascent (Jun 11, 2014)

Elizabeth50 said:


> Ok, I'm sorry but you just don't get it... My husband and I dated for 2 1/2 years before we married and had sex. Yes, it was hard. Yes, it could have come easily but GOD'S WORD SAID NOT TO!!!!!!!! For some of us, we care much more what God's word says than our selfish desire. He wants what is best for us. But to say that not having sex means you don't want it is just false. As I said, you may consider going to a Christian site that discusses sex as there are apparently a lot of views on here. Good grief, on another thread they advised a guy to go find someone else to have sex with...
> 
> So, please be very careful where you get your advice from!!!! God can be trusted. Don't give up!!!


I'm a Christian, too….
but I don't agree with your point. At the age of 24, if I was making out with an attractive woman, I would have found it VERY DIFFICULT to not go any further. I do agree that God can be trusted, but in the heat of the moment that is very difficult to contend with.

Human nature is such that even when we want and try to do right, we often fail. That's why we need a Savior, because we of ourselves are not good enough.

I think what happened prior to their marriage (or, in this case, what didn't happen) is a red flag.
Doesn't mean it can't be overcome, but to think that they have great sexual chemistry, well I think that is naive.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Op. I also advocate for sex before marriage even if it is not until the couple is engaged. We are past that though


Is it just frequency that is the problem? Is the sex at least good? I would think that neither of you are really familiar with each other's bodies let alone your own. I would suggest getting some books on sex tips and positions. Time to find out what makes you both hot in the bedroom.


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## Elizabeth50 (Nov 19, 2014)

renascent said:


> I think what happened prior to their marriage (or, in this case, what didn't happen) is a red flag.
> Doesn't mean it can't be overcome, but to think that they have great sexual chemistry, well I think that is naive.


I think we had plenty of good chemistry and all we did is make out before we were married.... So that is not a red flag.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Elizabeth50 said:


> I think we had plenty of good chemistry and all we did is make out before we were married.... So that is not a red flag.


Yes, actually it is a red flag. The sex drive is a very strong drive and for people with a strong and healthy sex drive nearly impossible to control unless the keep themselves from getting too physical in the first place. The fact that they COULD go so far as to dry hump one another without removing clothing or even attempting to clearly indicates one of them didn't have a very strong drive in the first place and was in a better position to call a halt to the activities.

Highly sexual people will easily forget they're not supposed to have sex. Low drive people will not.

You can disagree all you want but the facts are the facts.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

if she believes she will burn in hell for anything but procreative intimacy, then you are out of luck.

I can remember seeing the Catholic marriage manual my parents had from the 1960s that still said that any sexual contact that wasn't a part of trying to create babies was a sin.

Yeah, I'm one of 10, glad you asked. 

Sometimes i think religiosity, as opposed to spirituality, gets in the way of a marriage couple.

That and a lack of experience.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Elizabeth50 said:


> I think we had plenty of good chemistry and all we did is make out before we were married.... So that is not a red flag.


But then it took you eighteen years to finally find sexual pleasure?...


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