# Feel like wife is weening me off sex



## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

I am at my wit's end. 

I am in my late thirties, wife is same age as I am. 

When we were younger, we had a great sex life. 
Then as we got older, we had a routine, getting sex around 4x a week, cutting it down further. It has been like this for almost 5 years, every week. If for some reason we couldn't do it one night, it was rolled over to another night. But we made sure to always have our time. 

And no kids. Personal issues and reasons.

I know I have a high drive compared to her, but we compromised, and I felt like we were both happy. 

Well, about 4 months ago, she started only giving it 3x a week. I didn't think too much of it, but she wasn't wanting to make up on our lost couple time. 
So I assumed it was my fault, cause I have gained some weight, so I started losing it, eating better, and trying to look better for her. And I kept a log of how I worked out, so I could track my progress, and see if the wife would want sex more.

Didn't even help. I would almost say it hurt. Because wife had sex with me even less! It started going down to 1-2x a week, about 2 months ago. 
So I thought, maybe she doesn't feel emotionally connected to me. I remember hearing about how when women, if they don't feel an emotional connection, don't feel loved, so that translates into less sex. 
So I started wanting to talk to her more. She was kinda open, but has been closing herself off more to me. I honestly, don't get it. 
So I thought maybe she wanted some fun, so I let her have some girl's nights out. This allowed me to hang out with my friends too. Worked out great. 
Except sex still wasn't getting any better. 

Now, 4 months later, I am exhausted of ideas. 
We have sex maybe once every 2 weeks, if that. 
I would be happy, at this point, getting it twice a week. But nope, getting nothing. 

And I have talked to her about, but she got upset and defensive, and called me some names, so I'd rather not try that again. 

Is there some reason? Like, body changes, hormones, maybe even a change in diet? I am at my wit's end.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

goingtosnap said:


> And I have talked to her about, but she got upset and defensive, and called me some names, so I'd rather not try that again.


Was it upset and defensive one way (just her)? If so it sounds strange. You tried to talk to her about it and she called you names? Again, strange. You should be able to express your cocerns to her in an adult manner, and if she can't handle it, I'd suggest you start thinking its a bigger issue than just the sex.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

You talked to her about it? What did you say? What did she say?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your wife could be experiencing a change in libido based on her age.

Does she give you any reason why she does not want sex as often?

How much time a week do the two of you spend doing date-like things?


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

I'm also concerned by your wording ("giving it",etc.). Do you feel like she's not getting as much out of it as you are? Do you think she realized your change in behavior (going out of your way to talk to her more) was motivated by a "give to get" mentality?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Name calling implies a problem bigger than lack of sex.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Matt1720 said:


> I'm also concerned by your wording ("giving it",etc.). Do you feel like she's not getting as much out of it as you are? Do you think she realized your change in behavior (going out of your way to talk to her more) was motivated by a "give to get" mentality?


Good catch and good point. Those unspoken agreements never work. And she may not have been as happy as he thought she was.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

_You talked to her about it? What did you say? What did she say? _

I asked her why we weren't having sex as often, point and blank. She looked at me dumbfounded, like she hadn't been slowly cutting it off. 
I told her I have noticed how it changes, and hinted to how I have documented it. Because I have but I didn't mean for it to go on for almost 4 months. I was just expecting to have to document the sex pick up for maybe 2 weeks, not the decline for 4 months. 
She called me a pig, and said that was I think about, and how I don't think about her needs, or what she has to go through at work. Yelling at me. 

_Your wife could be experiencing a change in libido based on her age._

I asked her doctor, he said everything was normal. Nothing huge that he noticed. But I know there is some doctor patient rule he can't violate, so he can't tell me a whole lot. 
_
Does she give you any reason why she does not want sex as often?_

I was going to ask her that, but after I initially brought it up, I have just avoided talking about it all together.

_How much time a week do the two of you spend doing date-like things?_

Our schedule usually follows: Sun-Mon-Tues-Wed-Thurs we eat at home, cooking the meal together. I may take her out though on Wednesday or Thursday. 
Friday, is usually a friends night out. But if they are busy or something, I take her out.
Saturday I take her out to eat, and we may go somewhere. 

And I haven't changed it very much since this started. I still take her almost as often as I did before this started.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

Matt1720 said:


> I'm also concerned by your wording ("giving it",etc.). Do you feel like she's not getting as much out of it as you are? Do you think she realized your change in behavior (going out of your way to talk to her more) was motivated by a "give to get" mentality?


I honestly never thought of that "Give to get" mentality. Would this make her want it less?

As for her, she never expressed any dissatisfaction with our sex life. I thought she was satisfied in every way, and I try to make sure we both have our fun.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Has she put on weight as well? And do you initiate and get turned down, or are you just waiting for her to initiate? Do the two of you have date nights? How much "quality" time do you spend together?

With regard to her response when you try to talk to her, you may have to not take that "no" as an answer. Sometimes you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet.

Have you read the No More Mr. Nice Guy (NMMNG) and the Married Mans Sex Life (MMSL) threads in the men's forum? See if they have some insight for you.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

PBear said:


> Has she put on weight as well? And do you initiate and get turned down, or are you just waiting for her to initiate? Do the two of you have date nights? How much "quality" time do you spend together?
> 
> With regard to her response when you try to talk to her, you may have to not take that "no" as an answer. Sometimes you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet.
> 
> ...


She has put on some slight weight, but nothing too bad. I still find her beautiful, and want her. And yes, I do initiate it, but I have been turned down for so long, I honestly don't know why I still do. She hasn't initiated for months. 

And I have read a lot of various threads and books from many other sites and forums about the married guy's sex life, and I know the whole alpha and beta thing. I would categorized more as a beta probably, I am aware of that, but I like to think I don't let people walk on me.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> She called me a pig, and said that was I think about, and how I don't think about her needs, or what she has to go through at work. Yelling at me.


Well, what do you think she is referring to?

Which needs of hers aren't you thinking about?
What is she going through at work?
What has been going on between you and in your lives for the last 6 months?

(And yes, if you "hinted" that you were _documenting _how often you have sex, I'm not surprised that she thinks that is all you think about).


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Matt1720 said:


> Was it upset and defensive one way (just her)? If so it sounds strange. You tried to talk to her about it and she called you names? Again, strange. You should be able to express your cocerns to her in an adult manner, and if she can't handle it, I'd suggest you start thinking its a bigger issue than just the sex.


Doesn't sound strange to me. I've tried to talk to my wife about her lack (absence) of sex drive in a thousand different ways and she immediately gets hostile and defensive no matter what approach I use. It's just a way of training him to shut up and accept his fate.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

norajane said:


> Which needs of hers aren't you thinking about?
> What is she going through at work?
> What has been going on between you and in your lives for the last 6 months or a year?


THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!! SHE WON'T TALK ANYMORE!
I know she got a small promotion at work, that requires her to put in a few more hours a week, but nothing to big. I think her work week went from around 40-45 hours.
I know I probably wasn't always there like I should be, but I would try to listen to her when she wanted me to.
Now, when we go out, she doesn't like talking to me. I have tried talking with her, but she doesn't want to. It's like I am trying to talk to a brick wall. 

But I tried to be supportive when she needed me. I do know before the sex started going down, she stopped talking as much. I didn't give it too much thought at the time. 

As for the past 6 months to a year, nothing really major. The most exciting honestly, is probably her small promotion at work. Beyond that, nothing. We go on vacation, we live comfortably, we have savings, I honestly don't get it. We are in a stable situation.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Wait a second - she called you names? I don't understand her reaction. Did you start out the conversation with you cold hearted b!tch ...... If not the name calling is really desturbing. Is she in the habit of name calling. 

I think you need to step up and not back down. May I suggest that you bring up the name calling and ask her why she saw fit to resort to name calling? Ask her if this will be the new norm because you have some choice words for her too if she ever does that again. 

I also think that your backing down and not saying anything more is also confusing to me. You were a couple that had sex frequently and that has changed drastically. Any reasonable person would ask why. It seems as if you think you have no cause to ask about your sexual relationship. I have to ask - if a non- sexual activity was the subject would you not thinkmto ask and expect a reasonable answer? So why is sex in a special category???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

goingtosnap said:


> We are in a stable situation.


Usually for men this is the key problem. Women get stable and comfortable and think they no longer have to put forth effort.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

I won't call her names. 
Everyone knows, when a man and woman fights, the man always loses. No matter what the ending, it will come back to hurt me in some form or another. 

As for the stable situation, how do I tell her I still expect regular sex even though we are in a stable and non exciting time in our lives, WITHOUT her blowing up on me?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Have to ask another question - could she be cheating? The abrupt change and not talking are possible red flags. Can you so some quite investigating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Why does she stay married? She won't tell you what she wants/needs but is angry so I'm wondering why does she stay?

Good point Catherine. Cheating is a possible reason too.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

The following is based on first person experience,

First, you need to understand what you are missing. Is it primarily sex (would doing it with someone else alleviate the frustration) or is it the intimacy and acceptance? I assume it is the latter, and only 10% the actual sex. You feel rejected and unloved. 

There are books that will help you understand why that is - that your W wanting to have sex with you is how you understand her love for you. Also, sex can be the glue in a marriage - and what defines your relationship as different from others (a tangible reminder of the lifelong obligation you have to one another). After all, how can you trust she'll always be there, or will be there in bad times, if she does not care enough to think about and do what makes you happy now?

Next step after truly understanding what you are feeling and why, is determine a course of action. Manning up without discussing it (the no more nice guy and/or married man sex life stuff) may reinvigorate her. Or, talking to her to help her understand that the issue is not that you are a horn dog, but rather sex is an emotional more than physical connection.

It is likely that she has wanted less sex for a while and is resentful that you did not notice (the same way you are resentful that she pretended not to notice your sex life dwindling). Even though she enjoys sex she doesn't necessarily want it. That is very tough to hear and interpret - essentially that there is something about doing it with you that she tries to avoid.

The mmsl stuff may resolve the issue without uncovering what it was. Some women fall out of love with their H's or lose that side of themselves when they are comfortable with their H - MMSL shakes that comfort up.

She gets defensive and mean because she has built up resentment. She feels she is more right or you are more wrong. Also, women (and men) who have a hard time admitting when they are wrong, instinctively react as if they did nothing wrong. 

So, if you go the conversation route, go in expecting that the discussion will be interpreted as a fight. Try to ensure your words cannot be interpreted as blaming the issue on her and understand that what you say must sink in over time.


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm wondering if all your efforts to get closer with your wife are transparent...like maybe she knows the reason you are making extra effort to talk and connect with her, is because you want to have sex more. The reason I ask is because the way you explained it, from the beginning of the decline in sexual activity, you started documenting things. This is sort of a clinical approach and she may feel like a bit of a science experiment. 

I'm not criticizing you. You are feeling desperate and just want things to be right. I just wonder if maybe your wife has had a drop in libido for reasons maybe even SHE doesn't understand at this point..and all your attempts to improve things, along with the documentation, may be putting more pressure on her, and thus be the reason she shuts down when you try to talk.

??? just a thought. I hope things improve for you!


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Have to ask another question - could she be cheating? The abrupt change and not talking are possible red flags. Can you so some quite investigating?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The abrupt change is likely less abrupt than it appeared. She likely has wanted less sex for a while (since becoming comfortable and stable) and was building up resentment and at some point decided to take the initiative to have sex on her terms. 

When LD women post, it is often "why should I have to . . ." For them, there is a disconnect between sex and intimacy, and a disconnect between sex and love, and a disconnect between sex and happiness. Sex is a physical act that is no different than anything else, say eating mac n cheese - their response is: "I like mac n cheese, but do not really want it often; are you telling me that if we do not eat mac n cheese frequently it makes you feel like I do not love you, that is silly." The point is, if a person does not connect sex and love or see how others do, the act is nothing special, and while enjoyable, burdensome or tedious too - like eating mac n cheese 4 days a week.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

goingtosnap said:


> THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!! SHE WON'T TALK ANYMORE!
> I know she got a small promotion at work, that requires her to put in a few more hours a week, but nothing to big. I think her work week went from around 40-45 hours.
> *I know I probably wasn't always there like I should be,* but I would try to listen to her when she wanted me to.


Why do you say this? Are you aware of times she needed you in some way and you weren't there? Is there something you think you should have been doing but didn't?


> Now, when we go out, she doesn't like talking to me. I have tried talking with her, but she doesn't want to. It's like I am trying to talk to a brick wall.
> 
> But I tried to be supportive when she needed me. I do know before the sex started going down, *she stopped talking as much. I didn't give it too much thought at the time. *


So you noticed that she had stopped talking as much as usual, but you didn't think it was a big deal or meant anything? Were there any other changes then? Did you change in any way around that time, do anything different?

I think you have to open this discussion again. I also think this about more than sex - the recent change in your sex frequency is the symptom of a bigger problem. Tell her you're starting to worry about your marriage because when communication breaks down, everything breaks down. Ask her to help you understand what she thinks about your marriage right now and what she would like for your relationship.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

The documentation was not really intended to go on for this long. 

It was originally to help me with my workouts. When I first started, I realized how little I actually knew, so I used the notebook to help me figure out proper procedures. Then I thought, "I'll track my progress," in more ways than I probably should have. I included pictures of myself leaning out, and I also included a count of how many times we had sex, to see if it would go up as I became, what I thought was, more attractive. 
But as sex dwindled, I used it more as a way of noting how little I was actually getting. Its original purpose has been become a lesser one, and a new one took over.

And honestly, I should've posted this in the first post, but everything has been going down. Affection, like holding hands, kissing, touching, all that has been going down. I no longer get kisses when I leave the home, she won't hold hands with me (I do initiate) anywhere, I tried at the movie theater not to long ago, I feel rejected. I still try to be emotionally there for her, and talk to her, but she won't reciprocate with any physical affection. 

As for cheating, I would like to think that is not possible. But I really hope that isn't the reason.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

goingtosnap said:


> I asked her why we weren't having sex as often, point and blank. She looked at me dumbfounded, like she hadn't been slowly cutting it off.
> I told her I have noticed how it changes, and hinted to how I have documented it. Because I have but I didn't mean for it to go on for almost 4 months. I was just expecting to have to document the sex pick up for maybe 2 weeks, not the decline for 4 months.
> She called me a pig, and said that was I think about, and how I don't think about her needs, or what she has to go through at work. Yelling at me.


Classic blameshift. She stays quiet until she hears something she can hang on you, and conveniently ignores the fact that she is focusing on the surface symptom (the conversation) and not the issue (or at least a deeper symptom) - her sexual slowdown.

You need to continue to have these conversations and not be cowed by her protestations. Doing the MMSL (from what I know of it) would help also, to let her know that you have better things to do than chase her around for sex and just eat rejection.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

There are two guys who I REALLY learned a lot from regarding what "beta" and "alpha" really means. Athol Kay has it down the best though. 

A few things are generally true about men and women:
1. Women generally lose desire for their partner over time. This is more the norm than not. 
2. If they RESPECT their husbands - generally they make an effort to keep a compromise that works for both of them.

The fact that you and your wife both seem ok with her yelling at you, calling you names and generally bullying you reflects a total lack of respect. 

As for your statement: "I don't let people walk over me" - your wife walked over you and then kicked you. And your response is to do exactly what she wants, avoid bringing it up again because you are afraid of her. 

Clearly she is not liking having sex with you. And that is a problem. But denying the problem and yelling at you are much bigger problems. 

And this is not a communication problem. She knows this is a big deal to you. She has simply communicated that your needs don't matter. 

And it is also true that maybe she thinks her needs don't matter that much to you. And I have no idea if that is true or not. Only you know that. 





goingtosnap said:


> She has put on some slight weight, but nothing too bad. I still find her beautiful, and want her. And yes, I do initiate it, but I have been turned down for so long, I honestly don't know why I still do. She hasn't initiated for months.
> 
> And I have read a lot of various threads and books from many other sites and forums about the married guy's sex life, and I know the whole alpha and beta thing. I would categorized more as a beta probably, I am aware of that, but I like to think I don't let people walk on me.


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## mommyofthree (Jan 7, 2012)

If my H hinted he was documenting our sex life (or lack of) I think I may snap back at him.Sounds like you got a journal going on it. If he said he was just noticing then no I would just talk calmly.


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## mommyofthree (Jan 7, 2012)

goingtosnap said:


> As for the stable situation, how do I tell her I still expect regular sex even though we are in a stable and non exciting time in our lives, WITHOUT her blowing up on me?


Im probably the only one on here that thinks this but the word "expect" threw me a little. I don't expect anything from my H but I definitley would like it. 

To me expect sounded like a control word. Sorry...ignore me,Im just thinking out loud and am the only one im sure but I wanted to mention it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

mommyofthree said:


> If my H hinted he was documenting our sex life (or lack of) I think I may snap back at him.Sounds like you got a journal going on it. If he said he was just noticing then no I would just talk calmly.


I don't understand why get upset to the point of name calling. If my husband kept track in a journal the first thing that would come to mind is why. 

The second thing I would ask is about his satisfaction with the frequency. However, If I viewed him as my adversary, I might go apesh!t on him.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

So, I tried talking to her about our sex...issues. 

And it ended with me now sleeping on the couch. 
**** me, I'm beta and people walk on me. 

But I asked her about if there was something going on. 
She immediately went defensive, saying I was only asking because I wanted sex. I wasn't really sure how to respond, so I went blank, then after an awkward silence said we aren't communicating like we use to, and that we need to get back in the habit of talking like we use, being more a couple, trying to be constructive. 
It just ended with her yelling at me, and then kicking me out of the bed. 
At least she gave me a pillow.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mommyofthree said:


> Im probably the only one on here that thinks this but the word "expect" threw me a little. I don't expect anything from my H but I definitley would like it.
> 
> To me expect sounded like a control word. Sorry...ignore me,Im just thinking out loud and am the only one im sure but I wanted to mention it.


My mom taught all of her daughters to keep a little notebook in our bedside table to track our cycle and our sex lives. I did this up until my husband decided we did not need a sex life. Did it even after menopause set in.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

goingtosnap said:


> So, I tried talking to her about our sex...issues.
> 
> And it ended with me now sleeping on the couch.
> **** me, I'm beta and people walk on me.
> ...


And you went along with her kicking you out of your bed. Why?


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

She can kick surprisingly hard.

Besides, what would I do? Pick her up, and carry her and drop her on the couch?


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## Mishy (Mar 28, 2012)

goingtosnap said:


> She can kick surprisingly hard.
> 
> Besides, what would I do? Pick her up, and carry her and drop her on the couch?


Don't leave the bed!Be territorial!It's your bed too!
If she doesn't want you there SHE can move to the couch.

You're been abused and it won't stop until you will stand up for yourself.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

Mishy said:


> Don't leave the bed!Be territorial!It's your bed too!
> If she doesn't want you there SHE can move to the couch.
> 
> You're been abused and it won't stop until you will stand up for yourself.


I don't want to be kicked all night. 

Besides, few people actually believe when guys say their wives abuse them. Or they just say, "Stand up for yourself! You pansy!" Like you did. 
Well, what happens when we do? My mom hit my dad with a frying pan. He yelled and got angry. What happened? He got domestic charges for yelling and threatening. 

So, is there another option?


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## Mishy (Mar 28, 2012)

goingtosnap said:


> I don't want to be kicked all night.
> 
> Besides, few people actually believe when guys say their wives abuse them. Or they just say, "Stand up for yourself! You pansy!" Like you did.
> Well, what happens when we do? My mom hit my dad with a frying pan. He yelled and got angry. What happened? He got domestic charges for yelling and threatening.
> ...


Well I just meant you need to set boundaries.

If she is violent it's never ok to reply with violence. But just stand your ground.
Why not?

I understand it's hard, I was using the same approach with my wife too (but she never got physical, she used to talk to me in a disrespectul way). Now there are boundaries and she does not cross them. It's still hard sometimes but if you don't start changing things it will never get better.

Hope this helps.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

goingtosnap said:


> She can kick surprisingly hard.
> 
> Besides, what would I do? Pick her up, and carry her and drop her on the couch?


If she kicks you hard that is physcial abuse. YOu can get if you kicked her like that she'd be on the phone to 911. 

Why do either of you have to sleep on the couch? Of course you do not pick her up and carry her to the couch. I did make the assumption that you have a bed large enough for both of you to sleep in it.

If she does not want to sleep with you in the marital bed, then she can get herself to the couch. 

You are allowing her to push you around. Why?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

goingtosnap said:


> I don't want to be kicked all night.
> 
> Besides, few people actually believe when guys say their wives abuse them. Or they just say, "Stand up for yourself! You pansy!" Like you did.
> Well, what happens when we do? My mom hit my dad with a frying pan. He yelled and got angry. What happened? He got domestic charges for yelling and threatening.
> ...


Oh good grief. This is the best you can do? 

Your dad was wrong for yelling and threatening. They both should have been arrested after he did that. 

If she is going to play a gave to threaten you get a VAR (voice activated recorder), keep it with you and get her on tape kicking you. Keep asking her to stop kicking you. Let her go off and rant and rage. Get it on tape while you are inbed. stay in bed and dial 911. 

It will be the last time she abuses you.

Or just get a divorce. She cannot abuse you if you divorce her now can she? Leaving her is one of the best ways to stand up for yourself.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow...This are much bad than you initially suggested it to be. Your wife is physically and emotionally abusive and you are too scared to stop the behavior. 


Next time she gets physical that her behavior is not acceptable and you will move out if this happens again.


Read these books immediately

Married Man Sex Life
No More Mr.Nice Guy.

Read them immediately. You are being a passive beta

Consider that her cheating on you is a serious possibility. The signs are all there. The cringing at you touch and no physical affection combined with the non existent sex life are huge red flags. Huge, huge red flags. Go visit the Coping with Infidelity Subforum and repost there. You will get help on how to verify if your wife is really cheating. Once you can confirm that she isn't, you can actually work on fixing your sex life. Because if she is cheating, there is nothing you can do to fix it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Again, the pattern here is to assume that the guy isn't doing something or enough of something

As someone with a LD spouse who has done pretty much everything to try and improve the situation (including books, counseling, chores, date night etc) this kind of piszes me off

Sorry. Just a small rant.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled post


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Oh good grief. This is the best you can do?
> 
> Your dad was wrong for yelling and threatening. They both should have been arrested after he did that.
> 
> ...



Exactly. This behavior is not acceptable from any spouse. I also expect that it has happened before.

Get a VAR and put a stop to it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't understand why get upset to the point of name calling. If my husband kept track in a journal the first thing that would come to mind is why.
> 
> The second thing I would ask is about his satisfaction with the frequency. However, If I viewed him as my adversary, I might go apesh!t on him.


Catherine,

I agree with you and have to admit I have kept a calendar because of these very issues.

I guess it started with me thinking to myself "Are we having less sex or is it my imagination"?

It is in no way a detailed jounal, just more of a tally sheet that has shown me when and the only other thing it accounts for is her cycle


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

mommyofthree said:


> Im probably the only one on here that thinks this but the word "expect" threw me a little. I don't expect anything from my H but I definitley would like it.
> 
> To me expect sounded like a control word. Sorry...ignore me,Im just thinking out loud and am the only one im sure but I wanted to mention it.


While expect can be a loaded word, I think it means expected in the course of a normal healthy marriage. I imagine that for you to stay married to your husband, you have certain expectations of how he will treat you, what needs he will meet, etc. Interpreted that way, I don't think it is a bad word, though perhaps other words may help avoid confusion.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

I did only keep a tally of the sex in the journal. But as my workouts intensified, and my bedroom life got duller, it became a tally of rejections too. 
I am thinking of stopping it. 

As for the VAR, I may look into that. I would like to think we can talk it out, but I am beginning to think it won't work that way. 

And I talked to some workmates. They are some good friends, and they all came to two conclusions:
She is going through menopause extremely early, 
or she is cheating. 

My brain says they are right, but my heart doesn't want to admit it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I think there is a 75% chance that she is cheating on you.

The first thing you should do is stop talking to her about your sex life. You've tried it and it got you nowhere fast. She knows you're not having sex. She knows you don't like it. She doesn't care.

Also, don't ask her about an affair. Never, in the history of the world, has a disloyal spouse confessed to an affair when asked by the loyal spouse. A disloyal spouse MAY confess only after the loyal spouse has gathered clear evidence. If you walk in on her and another man naked, she will confess an affair. If you find text messages on her phone discussing the sex she has had with another man, she will confess an affair. Not before.

So you need to start investigating her. Put a VAR under the seat of her car to record her phone conversations. Put spyware on her mobile phone to record her texts. Put a keylogger on her computer to read her emails and Facebook messages. Put a GPS in her car to see if she's going to any rendezvous points. And then you shut up about sex or affairs until you have evidence that she is cheating, or you feel comfortable that she isn't.

If you discover that she is cheating, post on the Coping with Infidelity board before confronting her. This is very important! You may well make some big mistakes without guidance.

While that is going on, you start to man up. Read MMSL and NMMNG. If your wife yells at you, tell her she is being a b!tch, give her an amused little smile and go on about your day. Don't give her the satisfaction of letting her think she has upset you. You should be in charge of yourself. Not her.

Sleep in your own bed. If your wife kicks you, get out of bed, get a video camera and tripod, and set it up at the foot of the bed. If she asks about it, tell her that anyone over the age of 10 who kicks you with malice is asking for a spanking and this could get pretty hot. It will also give you a legal defense against any assault charge by recording that your wife struck you first. Personally, I would love to be on that jury.

Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Again, the pattern here is to assume that the guy isn't doing something or enough of something
> 
> As someone with a LD spouse who has done pretty much everything to try and improve the situation (including books, counseling, chores, date night etc) this kind of piszes me off
> 
> ...


Sure at first people asked questions to determine the issues and to suggesting things he could try. It does not mean that anyone is saying that he is not doing enough. It means that he's the one here asking for help and so he's the one we are responding to.



You are seeing something that is not here... Have you even read the more recent posts as we learn more of how he sees his situation? Now that it is clear that she is physcially and emotionally abusive the advice he is getting it that he has to protect himself and his emotional health.

Your situation may or may not be the same as his.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

goingtosnap said:


> I did only keep a tally of the sex in the journal. But as my workouts intensified, and my bedroom life got duller, it became a tally of rejections too.
> I am thinking of stopping it.
> 
> As for the VAR, I may look into that. I would like to think we can talk it out, but I am beginning to think it won't work that way.
> ...


Why do you think you need to explain the reason for keeping tally? Do you see that you are in a sense agreeing with her? Explaining instead of being outraged says it all.

This situation makes me angry at and for you. Please take the excellent advice given by the other posters. Yiou need to reframe this. She is being unreasonable and I have the strong sense that it is because she has another man in the background. 

You have to make a strong effort to find out. At the same time, you need to work on your relationship skills. You will need those skills to be successful in your nest relationship.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> If she is going to play a gave to threaten you get a VAR (voice activated recorder), keep it with you and get her on tape kicking you. Keep asking her to stop kicking you. Let her go off and rant and rage. Get it on tape while you are inbed. stay in bed and dial 911.


Almost all smart phones have a recording app. Blackberry and iPhone both have one built in and there are third-party apps for Androids


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## PAPS18 (May 17, 2012)

I used to keep track/tally how often we had sex-because after we finished with our family, I got the V and I just thought, well, now we don't have any worries any longer and this should be interesting-a buddy of mine tracked his as well. What I found out is that over the next couple years, I had sex on average 1x a week, sometimes of course maybe 2x a week, other times we could go 2 weeks without. But on average, 1x a week. Next year, same thing. I also kept up with how many times I went down on her (something I LOVE to do but many times she will NOT allow it) and how many BJ's she gave me (something she obviously does not enjoy doing-either my taste or she says it really hurts her jaw-and NO, I am NOT huge, very average I would imagine). It was DEPRESSING. I found that for those couple years, I got about 2-3 BJ's a year-and those bj's typically last all of about 30 seconds to a minute and she is done (she does not give Bj's to completion-just as foreplay). I would typically go down on her 1x a month-which again was not enough for me. 

So, I never mentioned to her I kept the running tally, but I did initiate talks about our sex life. How I wanted more-she basically just put it out there for me-I am doing the best I can and I am sorry I can't be who you want me to be. At that point, I pretty much just gave in and said, that is it-I am done with the talking. This woman I love has been honest with me and now it is time for me to be honest with myself. Do I want to throw away this marriage for lack of sex of just make the best of it, I am choosing to make the best of it. 

What has worked for me is just to forget about initiating sex-I have told her I am a green light at ALL times. SO, if she is ever interested, just give me a look or any hint and I will take it from there. Sure, it puts her in control competely, in some sense it takes any pressure off her plate. But, you know what, she had control before when I tried for it and got rejected so now all I do is spare myself the rejection. When I get horny, I take care of myself-don't tell her I do that either but if she thinks I just sit around and wait for her and never get horny except when she might be, she is more nieve than even I imagine she is-and when it comes to male sexuallity, my wife is pretty darn nieve.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

Well, I took the wife out to eat, out of forced instincts. Well, her phone was buzzing all night, and she wanted to go out with her friends. I decided to let her. I went to hang out with my friends. 

So, it is now 9:45, and she has yet to come home. 

I am at that breaking point. I want to serve her with divorce papers now. But I know I need the evidence that there is another man. 

But I need to make sure:
Girls, when you hang out with your girlfriends, do you stay out this late with them, or is it likely someone else?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

goingtosnap said:


> Girls, when you hang out with your girlfriends, do you stay out this late with them, or is it likely someone else?


I'm not a woman, but I can definitively say, "It depends."

Some faithful women will go out late with girlfriends, or even go on vacations with girlfriends. Some unfaithful women will use the GNO as cover for cheating.

In general, GNO where women go out to bars or clubs is a bad idea. People who drink don't make good decisions. That's why casinos serve free alcohol. Also, many men at bars and clubs are seeking casual sex. So, women who are drinking and then shaking their butts in front of men who are seeking casual sex is a dangerous mix.

Also, even if a wife remains faithful (which obviously most do), it's disrespectful to her husband to get all dolled up and go out to preen in front of other men.

However, you don't want to arouse your wife's suspicion. If your wife is cheating, a change in your behavior will cause her to cool down on her affair, making it harder for you to catch her. A wife who is confident she has you snowed is a wife who is more likely to slip up and make a mistake, giving you the proof you need to bust her.


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## goingtosnap (May 24, 2012)

Well, she came home at 10:30. She seemed slightly hung over, and I asked her about last night. She only answered a few questions, before getting slightly agitated, then yelled that I was too controlling, and went off to our marital bed to sleep. She knows where I was all last night, I sent her a text about it, and told her. I have no idea where she was, except that it was probably a bar, or a club. I am 99% sure she is cheating. I would bet my life savings and retirement on it. 

So, I want to divorce. I am tired of being beta to her. Letting her walk on me. 
I am going to divorce her, and I want to show her, I can be alpha. 
I also don't want to be stuck in this marriage for too long, because the longer I am in it, the more spousal support I have to pay.

So, I have worked out a plan to really hit her hard for doing this to me. 
I am a financial planner, and I live in a state where assets before the marriage don't become joint property, but are returned to the spouse. But since I make a lot more money than she doe, I will get burned with spousal support probably.
That is not a whole lot, since we have acquired a lot over the years, but it will be some. 
As for the other things, I don't have a prenup. But I do know, that accounts under my name only, will not be shared with her in joint property agreements. So I am going to slowly drain our joint accounts, and put them in new accounts under my name. I know she has an account or two under her name, that she will keep. 
And I'll let her keep her car even though my name is on it, and I am also paying for it. As for the house, both of our names are on it, but I figure, I can move into something only slightly smaller and still live comfortably. When she married me, she married up, so I figure, her standard of living will probably go down after this. 

So, the other big thing, is busting her. 
I have no idea who the other man could be. None. But I have made arrangements to get her phone's data over the internet, show me texts, calls, picture messages, etc. So that will likely answer that question. 
I also bought three of the VARs things. Got one in the bedroom, hiding behind my lamp, another in her car with a GPS tracking thing, and the last one is in the kitchen. That is where we have most of our fights, so that seemed like a smart place to put it. 

Now it is just a matter of playing the waiting game. 
Any idea how long that will take?


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

you're a financial planner,and that's the best plan you got? better think long and harder here.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

goingtosnap said:


> Now it is just a matter of playing the waiting game.
> Any idea how long that will take?


No definite way to know. However, given that your wife has progressed beyond the stage of being distant and making you feel vaguely uneasy right into the stage of blatantly disrespecting you and practically rubbing this in your face, I'm guessing it won't take long.

What I advise is for you to spend some time thinking up scenarios. How will you react to each? Will you want a divorce due to the infidelity and ignore the specifics? What if she is in an affair with one man just for sex? What if she's in love? What if she goes out for one night stands with different men each time? What if she breaks down and begs for forgiveness, promising to be the perfect wife? What if she laughs in your face? Some consideration beforehand can help you be proactive instead of reactive.

Also, when you have evidence, come back and post on the Coping With Infidelity board. Those folks can help you plan your confrontation and avoid mistakes. Basically, the worst thing you can do is to break down and start apologizing for not being the perfect husband (you know, beta). The best thing will be more along the lines of printing out the text messages and handing them to her along with the divorce papers to sign.

I hope things get resolved quickly. Good luck.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You may want to talk to a lawyer about your money shuffling plans. I realize you're a financial planner, but getting caught doing that will not look good to a judge. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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