# How to Stop Punishing Her



## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

New here...my wife of 6 yrs talked to a guy (lives right now the street UGG) after a 5k run. He, according to her, forced his way into her life via texting and phone calls. I was emotionally distant to her quite a bit at the time so she was in a bad spot. She is very insecure anyway so I can see that. I caught her talking with him and she apparently ended it immediately. 9 months later there is NO evidence of anything but that being true (and I have CHECKED believe me). Now, I'm not sure why but I still obsess and bring it up all the time. I don't get what I need from her emotionally but she gives it her ALL. She has left me a love note every morning for 8 mths! And everything else a husband could want she has basically done. Well, except that she is unbelievibly clingy. Like follows me from room to room.

What the hell is wrong with me? I feel like I love her but not sure how I get over this thing and STOP bring it up. I am pretty sure (since my wife is a VERY sweet and loving person from a very caring family) that it was just talking in the first place. Any advise on how I can stop being a punk and get over this!?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

takes longer than 9 months to heal from infidelity, I suspect she hasn't done enough

has she...


1) gone no contact completely with OM (and written a NC letter)
2) been completely transparent (allowed you access to emails and phone, etc)
3) shown true remorse (see the newbie link in my signature for more info)
4) spent 10-15 hours a week of one on one time (no TV) with you?


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> takes longer than 9 months to heal from infidelity, I suspect she hasn't done enough
> 
> has she...
> 
> ...


 She spends every waking moment with me and gets upset when I'm not 2 feet in front of her talking. 

Answering those makes me feel like a complete moron and totally insecure. Maybe mirror time is in order. Dunno. I guess she might love me after all. Hmm.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

don't beat yourself up

no one gives us infidelity manuals


it is okay to feel the way you are feeling, it is normal

my 6-10 month post dday period was god awful, I was paranoid as hell

so you know, it usually takes 2-5 years to heal fully from infidelity


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> don't beat yourself up
> 
> no one gives us infidelity manuals
> 
> ...


Thats good to hear that...you know what I mean. It helps to hear someone else say "paranoid" too. Thats a good word for this. Thank you!


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

What she did is pretty tame by all standards (sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive here). You nipped what could've been something more serious in the bud and she's atoned for it. If you keep needlessly punishing her, you will drive her away.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

if you have time to read it I wrote my story out, you can click the link in my signature that says "My Story", while my wife's infidelity was a PA you can expect to see a lot of commonalities of what you go through as a BS


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> What she did is pretty tame by all standards (sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive here). You nipped what could've been something more serious in the bud and she's atoned for it. If you keep needlessly punishing her, you will drive her away.


Yeah, that would definately be the ultimate mistake. This girl is definately worth all this for sure. Soul mate. Sounds like I really need to put her first for once. Thanks again


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Try some books that have helped others:

5 Love Languages
His Needs / Her Needs
Love Busters 
The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work (Gottman)

The first three come with free website quizzes / questionnaires.

Each book serves a different function, there isn't much overlap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Complexity said:


> What she did is pretty tame by all standards (sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive here). You nipped what could've been something more serious in the bud and she's atoned for it. If you keep needlessly punishing her, you will drive her away.


he hasn't given details enough for you to say that and everyone has their own line of tolerance, for all we know she could have told OM she loved him or had sex talk


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

BTW: I wanted to mention that I tried Lexapro for depression because of this thing and nearly lost my mind. Anyone that is thinking of using anti-depressants ESPECIALLY that one should really keep this in mind.

Can be very dangerous for some folks. Just saying.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> he hasn't given details enough for you to say that and everyone has their own line of tolerance, for all we know she could have told OM she loved him or had sex talk


Well I felt better till now. LOL. Just kidding. My recovery from this is really like she "did the whole thing" anyway. Crushed me because my wife is SO far from the type of person to cheat. Sounds like excuses but she is unbelieably nice to everyone. Probably to nice to be rude...(which almost got her in trouble).


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What was the nature of their affair/?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Yeah, that would definately be the ultimate mistake. This girl is definately worth all this for sure. Soul mate. Sounds like I really need to put her first for once. Thanks again


I suggest the both of go away for a couple of days or do something nice for her. It'll show that you appreciate her efforts to make amends.



Almostrecovered said:


> he hasn't given details enough for you to say that and everyone has their own line of tolerance, for all we know she could have told OM she loved him or had sex talk


I suppose that follows with an EA.... Nonetheless considering what happened post the EA and the OP's own admission that his wife is remorseful and the problem no longer lies with her, it does no good to amplify the situation. It serves no purpose. In the long run, it'll just breed resentment. But you're correct that it could be a lot more serious than we know, or there might be trickle truthing.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What was the nature of their affair/?


For a reasonable man...we never will know right? She has told me all details - went to his house 3 times. Once for 5 mins and she did not go inside. The next she did but stayed 10 mins (scared to death) and left quickly. Now the last time...stayed 30mins talking about Thxgiving, family etc. That one worries me but next day she was caught on the phone.

Its her weakness in being led astray that worries me...not her "character" persay. Again I was ignoring her a lot. Admittedly. So she was "alone", "felt irrelevent", "felt worthless", "needed someone to talk too". Those type words come from her so I understand her position.

Still, I really need to stop punishing her. This has already helped. I feel like a heel and its time to man up I guess.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> For a reasonable man...we never will know right? She has told me all details - went to his house 3 times. Once for 5 mins and she did not go inside. The next she did but stayed 10 mins (scared to death) and left quickly. Now the last time...stayed 30mins talking about Thxgiving, family etc. That one worries me but next day she was caught on the phone.


And you absolutely believe this? I ask because that may slow down your healing a lot.



> Its her weakness in being led astray that worries me...not her "character" persay.


Being led astray...



> He, according to her, forced his way into her life


I think i know what still bothers you so much. You have painted a mental picture for yourself in which she is some sort of innocent victim, who is forced upon, who is led astray. And this because her actions don't match up with the previous idea you had of her. 

It seems she is doing everything she can. Basically, it seems the problem is that the compartmentalization you've created in your brain is not really solid. You're conflicted about the idea of who you think she is and the objective data at hand. Hence you say that its "out of character". 

If that was really true you wouldn't be here. And the real deal is that you must overcome this whole persona that you invented in your head for her and start really seeing the real her. A human, with faults like everyone else. And then, only then should you decide if this is a relationship you want to be in.

I am sorry if any of this is hurtful. We are all anonymous here and we have no vested interest in your particular story, my intention is only to try and help you out.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

costa200 said:


> And you absolutely believe this? I ask because that may slow down your healing a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, that is a very important point of view. I've definately explored that as well. The question you raise has entered my mind quite a bit. I realize I have\had a standard for this woman that is not completely real. Still, she is really pretty dang wonderful and I feel terrible when I hurt her so whether I decide to stay or not I definately don't want to make her pay anymore. She has begged, pleeded and done so much to show me she is remoreful. I'm going to continue to give it time and try forgiveness and (MUCH HARDER) complete trust for a while. It will end up as it should - that I'm sure of. Thanks again to everyone who responded. This forum is extremely helpful.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

rebuilding trust is good for R, blind trust is not


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> rebuilding trust is good for R, blind trust is not




Completely agree. At the same token it cannot be healthy to track someones every movement. I have done that at a micro level for 8mths. If she can hide it with complete transparency and still show me basically all the time that she cares then she is a genius at cheating. 

Not blind at all, but I completely agree with what you are saying. I really feel for folks in worse situations...my sitauation could have been MUCH worse. The pain from these things is flat out horrible. Good luck to anyone going through these issues.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How are you sure of the time she spent there ? Actually that changes the story a lot


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

basically I stopped snooping when I was "bored"

which was a good sign that I could trust again

you'll get there


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She knows you would leave her if you know that it was a physical relationship, right? Give her a better incentive to come clean!!


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> How are you sure of the time she spent there ? Actually that changes the story a lot


Well as I stated...I am getting over "the whole thing" anyway. I have treated this as if she slept with this person. I'm pretty damn sure she didn't. I mean in 2 weeks? Its possible but the point is that she didn't pursue it with him. Is it possible she is talking with him? Anything is possible but why at this point? Why not just leave? Why act like you want this marriage? Why go to counseling? Etc.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Yeah, that is a very important point of view. I've definately explored that as well. The question you raise has entered my mind quite a bit. I realize I have\had a standard for this woman that is not completely real. Still, she is really pretty dang wonderful and I feel terrible when I hurt her so whether I decide to stay or not I definately don't want to make her pay anymore. She has begged, pleeded and done so much to show me she is remoreful. I'm going to continue to give it time and try forgiveness and (MUCH HARDER) complete trust for a while. It will end up as it should - that I'm sure of. Thanks again to everyone who responded. This forum is extremely helpful.


Your love for her is imprinted in everything you write. I hope she really appreciates the chance you're giving her.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Your love for her is imprinted in everything you write. I hope she really appreciates the chance you're giving her.


I tell her that all the time. Sick I know but I have demanded that she makes me KNOW that she appreciates me...that probably won't change. I would be long gone if I thought she didn't care.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You're making some very classic BS mistakes here. First:



Shocker said:


> He, according to her, forced his way into her life via texting and phone calls.


No OM can force his way into your WWs life unless she let him. She's not owning up to the affair. She's making herself out to be the victim, and you know this is completely bullsh!t. Why didn't she simply tell you right away that some OM is harassing her and trying to pursue her? You know why? Because she enjoyed the attention. She wanted it. And you know this deep down.



Shocker said:


> I was emotionally distant to her quite a bit at the time so she was in a bad spot. She is very insecure anyway so I can see that.


Another classic BS mistake. You're taking the blame for her affair. It doesn't matter what you did, you're only 50% responsible for the state of the marriage before the affair. She's 100% responsible for the cheating. She should have confided to you, not in another man.



Shocker said:


> I caught her talking with him and she apparently ended it immediately.


And you verified this? How?



Shocker said:


> 9 months later there is NO evidence of anything but that being true (and I have CHECKED believe me).


How have you checked? Keyloggers? VARs? Checking her phone means nothing, and neither is checking her known email and facebook accounts. Its so very easy to create secret accounts.



Shocker said:


> Now, I'm not sure why but I still obsess and bring it up all the time. I don't get what I need from her emotionally but she gives it her ALL. She has left me a love note every morning for 8 mths! And everything else a husband could want she has basically done. Well, except that she is unbelievibly clingy. Like follows me from room to room.


But she still won't own her part in the affair. She's not the victim, and you know this deep down. This is why it bothers you.



Shocker said:


> What the hell is wrong with me? I feel like I love her but not sure how I get over this thing and STOP bring it up. I am pretty sure (since my wife is a VERY sweet and loving person from a very caring family) that it was just talking in the first place. Any advise on how I can stop being a punk and get over this!?


It takes 2-5 years to recover from a betrayal like this. And you continue to bring it up because you KNOW that you're still not getting the full story.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> You're making some very classic BS mistakes here. First:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now you sound like my "paranoid" self. I do agree this thing is not FULLY fleshed out. To think she will tell me every detail hurtful or not isn't realistic. She told me a lot. It hurt and she paid a hefty price emotionally, believe you me. I have been very hard on her with this. Almost left several times. She goes crazy crying and pleading with me to stay. She just does.

So question is...what price does she need to pay? If I continue to hound and punish her is that the answer?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

did you read the newbie link yet?

there's a chart of what remorse is- including owning up to the affair 100%

it's not about "price", it's about doing what's needed to help you heal, including no trickle truth, blameshifting or gaslighting


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> For a reasonable man...we never will know right? She has told me all details - went to his house 3 times. Once for 5 mins and she did not go inside. The next she did but stayed 10 mins (scared to death) and left quickly. Now the last time...stayed 30mins talking about Thxgiving, family etc. That one worries me but next day she was caught on the phone.


Ok, it's time to throw the flag.

:bsflag:

You mean to tell me that she's been talking and texting with this man behind your back and goes to his house and nothing happened? Seriously? And she still won't give you the details. This is classic Trickle Truth.










A lot more happened and you know it. She isn't in grade school. The truth is probably worse than you have imagined. We see this ALL the time here.



Shocker said:


> Its her weakness in being led astray that worries me...not her "character" persay. Again I was ignoring her a lot. Admittedly. So she was "alone", "felt irrelevent", "felt worthless", "needed someone to talk too". Those type words come from her so I understand her position.


Oh, again, you're making her out to be the victim here. She plays the victim card well. She could have communicated to you what she was feeling, right? But no, she communicated with another man. 



Shocker said:


> Still, I really need to stop punishing her. This has already helped. I feel like a heel and its time to man up I guess.


You can man up by getting the truth from her. From your story, it looks like you and her want to rug sweep this.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Now you sound like my "paranoid" self. I do agree this thing is not FULLY fleshed out. To think she will tell me every detail hurtful or not isn't realistic. She told me a lot. It hurt and she paid a hefty price emotionally, believe you me. I have been very hard on her with this. Almost left several times. She goes crazy crying and pleading with me to stay. She just does.


Almostrecovered and I are 2 years into R. Its not paranoid, its called experience. It also comes from reading the hundreds and hundreds of stories of infidelity in this forum and other forums. Don't think that your situation is unique, because its not.



Shocker said:


> So question is...what price does she need to pay? If I continue to hound and punish her is that the answer?


You're not recovering well because you know you're not getting FULL DISCLOSURE. She's NOT the victim here. She knowingly and willfully had an affair with the OM and continues to trickle truth you. And you wonder why you still feel this way.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It looks like you want to rug sweep this, which is normal in your position. Just know that your resentment is going to continue to build up because you know this situation hasn't been fully resolved and there's more to find out. But good luck with the rug sweeping.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Almostrecovered and I are 2 years into R. Its not paranoid, its called experience. It also comes from reading the hundreds and hundreds of stories of infidelity in this forum and other forums. Don't think that your situation is unique, because its not.
> 
> 
> 
> You're not recovering well because you know you're not getting FULL DISCLOSURE. She's NOT the victim here. She knowingly and willfully had an affair with the OM and continues to trickle truth you. And you wonder why you still feel this way.


If that is true...and you may be right that I don't have EVERY detail. No doubt. I have berated her about it for 8 months. Given her every single opportunity to come clean. She says that "we just talked". She will "not say she did something she did not do because I want to hear it"! This over unbelievable crying and anxiety from her. The girl doesn't seem to be trickle truthing anymore than anyone does normally.

Dunno, sounds like maybe I should hate her and leave.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> If that is true...and you may be right that I don't have EVERY detail. No doubt. I have berated her about it for 8 months. Given her every single opportunity to come clean. She says that "we just talked". She will "not say she did something she did not do because I want to hear it"! This over unbelievable crying and anxiety from her. The girl doesn't seem to be trickle truthing anymore than anyone does normally.
> 
> Dunno, sounds like maybe I should hate her and leave.


You're in limbo and not in True R. This is why you continue to feel resentment even 9 months out because of the TTing and now owning up to the affair. Get the book "Not Just Friends" by Dr Glass. Read the other stories here in the forum. R is incredibly difficult even when both are giving 100 percent. Rug sweeping her affair isn't going to get rid of your resentment, that's for sure.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Well I felt better till now. LOL. Just kidding. My recovery from this is really like she "did the whole thing" anyway. Crushed me because my wife is SO far from the type of person to cheat. Sounds like excuses but she is unbelieably nice to everyone. Probably to nice to be rude...(which almost got her in trouble).


I thought my fWW would be the last person in the world to cheat also. Just about every BS says that.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> I thought my fWW would be the last person in the world to cheat also. Just about every BS says that.


AMen Brother!


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## M2lngha1 (Jul 26, 2012)

Kudos to you! I'm not saying that to you because of your actions, I'm saying that to you because even you realize that you're the one that's struggling with this. That's always a start! And you know that you're wrong for acting the way you are. Emotional disconnect is all I'm seeing with you right now. It's not there, it's what drove the worse type of woman (insecure) into the position of reaching out to another male for simple conversation! She reached out based on her giving him her telephone number. Now, it sounds like you know your wife pretty good, you've used some adjectives to describe her, you know she's one that NEEDS to be reassured that she is a good woman. Throwing up one bad decision on her part, (one that you drove her too in the first place) isn't helping her feel any better about herself. I believe you and her need seperate counseling. Don't play around with this, you have some underlining issues that need to be discussed and resolved if there's any hope of you two getting back on track with your marriage.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

He drove her into cheating? 

:wtf:

I disagree. He's only responsible for 50% of the state of the marriage before the infidelity. She's 100% responsible for the cheating. He didn't drive her to cheat. She had other options like communicating with him, or seeking MC for both of them, or divorcing. There are OTHER options besides cheating. And it wasn't ONE bad decision. Cheating involves quite a number of decisions, in fact, she had to blow through quite a number of stop signs to get to where she was.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

where's the dislike button?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Shocker, you know your wife more than we do. We have no way to determine whether she's trickle truthing or has indeed told you everything. Don't allow your paranoia to control your actions when you have absolutley *no evidence* of foul play. You've grilled her for 8 months now and if the "truth" hasn't come out by then, it's never going to come out. Unless you come across something fishy or she gives you any indication that she hasn't been forthright, the problem falls squarely with you and you need to either properly reconcile or move on.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

really the only recourse you could have is a polygraph, but I'm not a fan of those


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It also may be that this is a deal breaker. Many people attempt R but find in the end that they simply can't recover from it. There's no shame in that.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

M2lngha1 said:


> Kudos to you! I'm not saying that to you because of your actions, I'm saying that to you because even you realize that you're the one that's struggling with this. That's always a start! And you know that you're wrong for acting the way you are. Emotional disconnect is all I'm seeing with you right now. It's not there, it's what drove the worse type of woman (insecure) into the position of reaching out to another male for simple conversation! She reached out based on her giving him her telephone number. Now, it sounds like you know your wife pretty good, you've used some adjectives to describe her, you know she's one that NEEDS to be reassured that she is a good woman. Throwing up one bad decision on her part, (one that you drove her too in the first place) isn't helping her feel any better about herself. I believe you and her need seperate counseling. Don't play around with this, you have some underlining issues that need to be discussed and resolved if there's any hope of you two getting back on track with your marriage.



Must... resist urge... to get banned... Phew... Close one


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

M2lngha1 said:


> Kudos to you! I'm not saying that to you because of your actions, I'm saying that to you because even you realize that you're the one that's struggling with this. That's always a start! And you know that you're wrong for acting the way you are. Emotional disconnect is all I'm seeing with you right now. It's not there, it's what drove the worse type of woman (insecure) into the position of reaching out to another male for simple conversation! She reached out based on her giving him her telephone number. Now, it sounds like you know your wife pretty good, you've used some adjectives to describe her, you know she's one that NEEDS to be reassured that she is a good woman. Throwing up one bad decision on her part, (one that you drove her too in the first place) isn't helping her feel any better about herself. I believe you and her need seperate counseling. Don't play around with this, you have some underlining issues that need to be discussed and resolved if there's any hope of you two getting back on track with your marriage.


I somewhat agree with this actually.


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## M2lngha1 (Jul 26, 2012)

Did you think she woke up one morning and made a decision to give her number to another man because everything was going great in her marriage? Of course not! She made her choices on her own, I'm not trying to "justify" her cheating by no means. My point to him was somewhere in the relationship he stopped doing whatever it was he had been doing, she noticed it, and internally started feeling "rejected". He even admitted that he wasn't emotionally connected to her! The disconnect has to start somewhere and he clearly pointed out some faults on his behalf that helped contribute to the current state of their relationship. *And a marriage is not a 50/50 type of relationship. A successful marriage requires 110% from each partner individually, it's hard work and it requires daily attention, action, open communication and love.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

I have to chime in here. I was a WS (wayward spouse) and have only very recently become a FWS (former wayward spouse.) I, too, have read 100s of stories on TAM and on other sites. There are times when I can clearly see that a newly BS spouse (particularly a husband) is in denial and that the situation is far worse than they realize. But, the OP hasn't given us nearly enough information to make any blanket assumptions here, yet. You guys, always, jump on the worst case scenario bandwagon. Maybe the OP did catch this in time. Maybe it was an unhealthy flirtation, the beginning of an EA, certainly inappropriate boundaries were crossed with texting and phone calls and the home visits. *But, most case scenarios are not every case scenario.* Another poster, on here, referred to WS' as "clones" who all follow the same script??? Why? Are all mothers, fathers, fireman, lawyers, doctors, social workers, neighbors, friends, policemen, etc., clones of one another? There are as many different reasons for behaviors as there are people.

I know what loneliness and lack of self-esteem can do to a woman. It sounds like this woman was definitely in the "danger-zone" but it is very possible that her husband found out in time and thwarted an affair before it began. The OP is going to do his homework, now that you guys have him all worked up, but again, it is possible that nothing more happened than what she has already told him. You can't just assume that it is always the worst case scenario, because sometimes it isn't, and that is where places like TAM can hurt people. Not that *I'M* complaining too much about TAM, mind you, because I am very happy with where H & I are in our R at this point and I have come to rely on this site for moral support, guidance, tough love, and as a "safe" place to veg out online!


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Empty Inside said:


> Another poster, on here, referred to WS' as "clones" who all follow the same script??? Why? Are all mothers, fathers, fireman, lawyers, doctors, social workers, neighbors, friends, policemen, etc., clones of one another? There are as many different reasons for behaviors as there are people.


Sure, there are many different reasons for behaviors, but that doesn't mean the actual behaviors are that much different. We share our stories here and observe developments. We can't help noticing how ultimately similar they all are.

Yes there are variations in WS behaviors, like, some of them are remorseful, some do attempt to set up their spouse for trouble etc. But with big three of the core post-DD behaviors (Trickle Truth, Blameshifting, Going Underground) deviations are very unlikely. I mean they do happen and we have people here who can attest to that, but chance of that is low enough that any sane person should not bet on it.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Shocker,

You have not given your full story here.
These are the pertinent questions:

1. How did you discover the A?
2. How did you confront her and what was her response?
3. Have you kids?
4. You say she is remorseful. Have you observed the table posted in this thread? Do you find the signs of true remorse?

I dont understand why you are saying you have punished her.
In a true R, WS will come clean regardless the number of times you ask questions. They will hide nothing. They would rather be forthcoming in alleviating your doubts and questions.

Do these things happen in your case?

I suppose you are punishing yourself.

Let us hear from you.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

snap said:


> Sure, there are many different reasons for behaviors, but that doesn't mean the actual behaviors are that much different. We share our stories here and observe developments. We can't help noticing how ultimately similar they all are.
> 
> Yes there are variations in WS behaviors, like, some of them are remorseful, some do attempt to set up their spouse for trouble etc. But with big three of the core post-DD behaviors (Trickle Truth, Blameshifting, Going Underground) deviations are very unlikely. I mean they do happen and we have people here who can attest to that, but chance of that is low enough that any sane person should not bet on it.



But, Snap, we don't know that she has Trickle-Truthed or gone underground. As far as blame-shifting goes, we do see some indication that her husband is convinced that he is to blame for her behavior because he was "ignoring" her. Now, that is a red flag, but there is probably some truth in that she wasn't getting some emotional needs met, but we don't know if she communicated that to him to give him an opportunity to change some things or if she just saw an opportunity, it felt good and she took it. We just don't have the whole story, yet. I am speaking as a person who engaged in all three of the post D-day behaviors after D-day # 1 last year. I know it when I see it. I just don't see it here with the information that we have. I guess we'll watch this unfold. I'm hoping for the best. It sounds as though he loves her very much.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

M2lngha1 said:


> Did you think she woke up one morning and made a decision to give her number to another man because everything was going great in her marriage? Of course not! She made her choices on her own, I'm not trying to "justify" her cheating by no means. My point to him was somewhere in the relationship he stopped doing whatever it was he had been doing, she noticed it, and internally started feeling "rejected". He even admitted that he wasn't emotionally connected to her! The disconnect has to start somewhere and he clearly pointed out some faults on his behalf that helped contribute to the current state of their relationship. *And a marriage is not a 50/50 type of relationship. A successful marriage requires 110% from each partner individually, it's hard work and it requires daily attention, action, open communication and love.


Yes, and when does cheating comes into that? You can end a marriage by not paying attention to your partner, but if a partner decides to cheat then that action is 100% the cheater's fault. This is the 21st century. Nobody forces you to be with anyone. If you're so unsatisfied you get a divorce and be free. You don't run around cheating.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Shocker, you know your wife more than we do. We have no way to determine whether she's trickle truthing or has indeed told you everything. Don't allow your paranoia to control your actions when you have absolutley *no evidence* of foul play. You've grilled her for 8 months now and if the "truth" hasn't come out by then, it's never going to come out. Unless you come across something fishy or she gives you any indication that she hasn't been forthright, the problem falls squarely with you and you need to either properly reconcile or move on.


You are definately helpful and totally agree. We had this out again last night in MAJOR detail. This women was terrified when she was with him and felt like "Everyone knew" what she was doing and felt horrible. She said she didn't even like the guy and didn't even really want to go the last time. The next day (after DD) when I told her I did in fact love her it was..."the best day of my life, it really was". Dunno I'm gonna TRUELY forgive and see what happens. Whats the worst that could happen? She leaves, does it again (over anyway)? This was a serious growing up period for me. Good can come of this ridiculous pain...I'm sure of it. Thanks again!

Wanted to add that I have been seriously too scared to fix this thing so far. Healing period is very long and not over. Anyone in this position must flesh out those big 4 things mentioned. Completely agree. There will come a day, if you do stay, that you will have to start to forgive. I am not taking blame it is ALL hers. I'd say to try to have some compasion as it does hurt the cheater as well very much, especially if she loved you all along. My marriage is going to survive because of this wake up call. I will not be ignoring and mentally hurting my wife with lies and selfishness. Eventually that has to happen. Might as well be now.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Shocker said:


> You are definately helpful and totally agree. We had this out again last night in MAJOR detail. This women was terrified when she was with him and felt like "Everyone knew" what she was doing and felt horrible. She said she didn't even like the guy and didn't even really want to go the last time. The next day (after DD) when I told her I did in fact love her it was..."the best day of my life, it really was". Dunno I'm gonna TRUELY forgive and see what happens. Whats the worst that could happen? She leaves, does it again (over anyway)? This was a serious growing up period for me. Good can come of this ridiculous pain...I'm sure of it. Thanks again


Shocker from what you express, I can see that your wife is genuinely remorseful for her actions and as you said, her actions were predicated by extenuating circumstances that aren't entirely your fault. 

If that's the case, don't torture yourself with "what ifs" and "how could yous". There comes a time when you really have to ask yourself what that accomplishes when your wandering spouse does their utmost to make amends for their actions. I remember a certain quote which says "mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice". I think after 8 months, your wife deserves a little mercy. You've already accomplished complete transparency, full no contact and a repentant, guilt ridden spouse, there isn't much more you could reasonably ask.

Good luck.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Shocker from what you express, I can see that your wife is genuinely remorseful for her actions and as you said, her actions were predicated by extenuating circumstances that aren't entirely your fault.
> 
> If that's the case, don't torture yourself with "what ifs" and "how could yous". There comes a time when you really have to ask yourself what that accomplishes when your wandering spouse does their utmost to make amends for their actions. I remember a certain quote which says "mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice". I think after 8 months, your wife deserves a little mercy. You've already accomplished complete transparency, full no contact and a repentant, guilt ridden spouse, there isn't much more you could reasonably ask.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks man, appreciate the very helpful insight.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

I have to repost on this one...my wife DID IN FACT have a sexual affair (once she says - b**** I'm sure) and just told me after 9 mths of lying. She even placed her hand on the bible and lied. I knew something wasn't right the whole time).


Problem is...I STILL feel like she is lying - I CAN SEE IT!


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Wow so sorry to hear that Shocker. I actually bought her version of the story. I suggest the only way to go would be a poly.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> I have to repost on this one...my wife DID IN FACT have a sexual affair (once she says - b**** I'm sure) and just told me after 9 mths of lying. She even placed her hand on the bible and lied. I knew something wasn't right the whole time).
> 
> 
> Problem is...I STILL feel like she is lying - I CAN SEE IT!


*Didn't I tell you this all along?* See how TT happens? Now she admits to one time? It was a lot more, I would bet money on that.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Shocker said:


> I have to repost on this one...my wife DID IN FACT have a sexual affair (once she says - b**** I'm sure) and just told me after 9 mths of lying. She even placed her hand on the bible and lied. I knew something wasn't right the whole time).
> 
> 
> Problem is...I STILL feel like she is lying - I CAN SEE IT!


So know that you know that she can and will lie lie, why stay with her? You cant stop her from choosing to lie, and you know she is capable of choosing to cheat.

She kept lying for so long.

The only way to stop being lied to is to remove her from your life.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> *Didn't I tell you this all along?* See how TT happens? Now she admits to one time? It was a lot more, I would bet money on that.


*waives white flag*

Lm was right all along


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Dudes I am so damn crushed I can't function. I have already started my plan to leave her. This is gonna suck so bad. I love her with all my soul. 

I am so destroyed. I cried like a baby over this. So unbelievable that she would do this.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Dudes I am so damn crushed I can't function. I have already started my plan to leave her. This is gonna suck so bad. I love her with all my soul.
> 
> I am so destroyed. I cried like a baby over this. So unbelievable that she would do this.


Whatever you do, don't self medicate with alcohol or something like that. See a doctor to get on meds if you have to or seek Individual Counseling (IC). Vent here if you like. 

BTW, how did you get her to admit the PA?


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

OH boy


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

what are you going to do now Shocker?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> don't beat yourself up
> 
> no one gives us infidelity manuals
> 
> ...


That 2-5 years is from when you find out. Sometimes it takes longer if you find out later because there is the added betrayal of the secret.

Do you believe nothing happened or are there little suspicions that you don't know everything. If something doesn't add up then it does not matter how great she has been since then. It will stick until you trust that you DO KNOW what happened to the full extent.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Whatever you do, don't self medicate with alcohol or something like that. See a doctor to get on meds if you have to or seek Individual Counseling (IC). Vent here if you like.
> 
> BTW, how did you get her to admit the PA?


I found out EVERYTHING about this fing guy and she knows it. I know where he lives, his ex-wives I mean everything.

I told her I was going to call him and if needed drop by his house for a chat. Thats when the ball dropped.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Give yourself time; any betrayal will take much longer than 9 mos to heal from, IMHO. But no, don't beat her up constantly over it. Maybe discuss constructively, how you're feeling? I find that usually works better than lobbing insults, or going around the house in a huff because you've triggered...


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> what are you going to do now Shocker?


I have counseling today and plan on going. She is terrified I am leaving her right now. Every day is a personal hell for her from what I can tell. She is I mean shaking terrified of me leaving her.

In the end, I know that is going to happen. I've already told her we will be moving. Once that house sells (yeah she said OK!) my ball will drop on her.

Mean, I know...still not sure I'll do it.

Also, she said she was "pressured" to do it the one time. Stopped it during because she was appauled and left immediately. She did call him the next day however...hmm. This woman is sick. She slept with me 3 times yesterday and does everything to keep me but I'm bout done here. She has SERIOUS self esteem issues.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

ummm...Thundarr, maybe you should read the whole thread before replying?


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Shocker said:


> I have counseling today and plan on going. She is terrified I am leaving her right now. Every day is a personal hell for her from what I can tell. She is I mean shaking terrified of me leaving her.
> 
> In the end, I know that is going to happen. I've already told her we will be moving. Once that house sells (yeah she said OK!) my ball will drop on her.
> 
> ...


How long did she say the A went on?? It must have been over a longer span of time than what she initially told you..


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Also, she said she was "pressured" to do it the one time. Stopped it during because she was appauled and left immediately. She did call him the next day however...hmm. This woman is sick. She slept with me 3 times yesterday and does everything to keep me but I'm bout done here. She has SERIOUS self esteem issues.


We've read something similar to this many times here, seriously. She's still not owning up to her part in the PA, not by a long shot. They always claim it was ONE time, that it wasn't any good, that they were pressured into it, etc, etc, etc. One guy's WW banged the OM in his truck, she claimed he was only inside her for 10 seconds, but that was allegedly enough for her to catch herpes. There's another thread where the WW claimed that the OM penetrated her, she felt guilty, then told him to stop (which he did) and she went home feeling appalled for what she did. There's yet another one where the WW went to a charity event with the OM, they went in a bathroom stall, she let OM penetrate her, then she felt guilty in mid stroke, and stopped it. 

See the pattern here when it comes to PAs? They always Trickle Truth, and usually the truth is much worse than you imagined.

If she wants a chance, then she needs to give *FULL DISCLOSURE* now, *no more TT*. She needs to own up to her part in the PA. She needs to acknowledge that she DID want to go bang the OM because she wanted to at the time.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She was pressured? Does that man raped? No, it doesn't. It mans she refuses to admit her choice was to go there with him.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> I have to repost on this one...my wife DID IN FACT have a sexual affair (once she says - b**** I'm sure) and just told me after 9 mths of lying. She even placed her hand on the bible and lied. I knew something wasn't right the whole time).
> 
> 
> Problem is...I STILL feel like she is lying - I CAN SEE IT!


I am so sorry to hear this.

As I was reading the entire thread I had the feeling the relationship had gone physical. 

I am so sorry she lied for so long. 

My STBEH lied about many things for a long time. 

I was receiving anonymous letters outing him and that is the only way I found out about anything. 

He was very good and gaslighting me and lying to my face. 

Sad thing is I wanted to believe him, even though my gut was screaming that something was just a tad off.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Dudes I am so damn crushed I can't function. I have already started my plan to leave her. This is gonna suck so bad. I love her with all my soul.
> 
> I am so destroyed. I cried like a baby over this. So unbelievable that she would do this.


I hear ya' shocker. 

Been there done that. 

It does suck. 

So sorry you are here.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> That 2-5 years is from when you find out. Sometimes it takes longer if you find out later because there is the added betrayal of the secret.
> 
> Do you believe nothing happened or are there little suspicions that you don't know everything. If something doesn't add up then it does not matter how great she has been since then. It will stick until you trust that you DO KNOW what happened to the full extent.
> 
> ...



Thank you for taking time to call me out on that. It's still a valid point. Just less speculation needed.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Shocker said:


> I have counseling today and plan on going. She is terrified I am leaving her right now. Every day is a personal hell for her from what I can tell. She is I mean shaking terrified of me leaving her.
> 
> In the end, I know that is going to happen. I've already told her we will be moving. Once that house sells (yeah she said OK!) my ball will drop on her.
> 
> ...


If you're planning on leaving her, you need to be upfront with it. I agree with you that she has serious self esteem issues and latches on, irrationally, to the slighted bit of attention she receives. If you do decide to reconcile, she needs to address these issues because she's very susceptible to cheating again.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> I have counseling today and plan on going. She is terrified I am leaving her right now. Every day is a personal hell for her from what I can tell. She is I mean shaking terrified of me leaving her.
> 
> In the end, I know that is going to happen. I've already told her we will be moving. Once that house sells (yeah she said OK!) my ball will drop on her.
> 
> ...


Shocker, the emails between my STBEH and the OW were sent to me by an anonymous source. I later saw texts, heard voice mails and found a portable hard drive with more information. 

When I contacted the OW she had told her husband my STBEH had initiated the relationship and he stalked her. 

The truth is was so opposite. She initiated the relationship. I saw the first email she sent to my STBEH's work website. 

She continued to call, text, email, voicemail in a pornographically sexual way.

She persisted when he twice tried to break it off by continuing to send provocative texts and emails. 

She also called frequently and spoke in a seductive way about what they could do it they got together. 

Please do not believe that your wife was coerced by the OM. She knew what she was doing and what she wanted.

she also stalked me by coming to my house before I knew who she was to check me out. 

She also initially stalked my STBEH by figuring out his schedule and showing up where ever he would normally be at meetings and to get lunch or coffee. Yet she lied to her spouse.

Your wife needs to be honest with you.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Shocker, the emails between my STBEH and the OW were sent to me by an anonymous source. I later saw texts, heard voice mails and found a portable hard drive with more information.
> 
> When I contacted the OW she had told her husband my STBEH had initiated the relationship and he stalked her.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Same here. Shocker, my fWW had told me in the beginning that it was all the OM, that he was the one initiating everything. Later I would find out that it was my fWW who was the one doing most of the initiating and pursuing.

She needs to own up to her part in the affair. This crap about being pressured is just that...crap.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Same here. Shocker, my fWW had told me in the beginning that it was all the OM, that he was the one initiating everything. Later I would find out that it was my fWW who was the one doing most of the initiating and pursuing.
> 
> She needs to own up to her part in the affair. This crap about being pressured is just that...crap.


Just got off the phone with her...she is crying hysterically at work telling me she would NEVER hurt me again. I've had no other proof of anything but I still think she is lying. I can just feel it. 

If she is lying now...I think it HAS to be that she is still seeing him. Why else hide it?

Can someone explain why a woman would do EVERYTHING, I mean EVERYTHING for me to fix this. 8 months of love notes every morning...transparent as hell (I have no idea HOW she could hide it - I know her where abouts ALL THE TIME except work and have her TIME SHEETS saying she is on the clock at the hospital!).

Is there a way that she DID end it like she said and is scared to death of me leaving? I still have no proof at all she is lying now. Wouldn't anyone hide the hideous truth of sleeping with another man to save the marriage?!


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

As has often been said, if your gut instinct is warning you about something, it's usually right. Do some investigation here. There are plenty of stories here where the WS has put on quite a performance, complete with crocodile tears. ing is a good example. Some WSs can put on academy award winning performances.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Just got off the phone with her...she is crying hysterically at work telling me she would NEVER hurt me again. I've had no other proof of anything but I still think she is lying. I can just feel it.
> 
> If she is lying now...I think it HAS to be that she is still seeing him. Why else hide it?
> 
> ...


Do more investigation before making this accusation. 

She may be still seeing him and really be good at lying or she may have truly broken it off. 

She could have lied as a misguided attempt at damage control. 

Cheaters don't realize that it is the lying and deception that causes the pain paranoia and mistrust more than the affair. 

With that said don't put your head up where the sun don't shine. 

As LM said, some cheaters could win an academy award and can cry on cue.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Would it matter if I said that this woman comes from an unreal family and those people are like gold character wise. Never did anything wrong. How could she be so broken? Maybe she could be telling the truth.

I'm lost with this obviously and love her with my whole soul. I'm definately in trouble with this one.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Problem is...I STILL feel like she is lying - I CAN SEE IT!


My situation was very similar. She could not lie without guilt all over her.

I bought it for a long time thinking I was being unreasonable because it was from when we were dating. It eventually took it's toll and I pretty much was leaving and thinking it was my fault for not getting over it. That's when the truth flowed. We recovered but that sting of the secret she held all of those years will not go away. The lying can be worse than the betrayal.

Good luck.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Would it matter if I said that this woman comes from an unreal family and those people are like gold character wise. Never did anything wrong. How could she be so broken? Maybe she could be telling the truth.
> 
> I'm lost with this obviously and love her with my whole soul. I'm definately in trouble with this one.


Hire a Detective, and ask her to do a poly. 

Living with a lie between you and your spouse is a terrible way to live and doubt can eat away at you like a cancer. 

The poly has a high failure rate and is only as good as the guy who reads the poly results. It's all about interpretation. 

Still, her reaction will tell you something. 

The detective appears to be the best way to get solid proof, if you can afford it.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Would it matter if I said that this woman comes from an unreal family and those people are like gold character wise. Never did anything wrong. How could she be so broken? Maybe she could be telling the truth.
> 
> I'm lost with this obviously and love her with my whole soul. I'm definately in trouble with this one.


We all thought (for the most part) that our spouses weren't capable of doing what they did.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Can someone explain why a woman would do EVERYTHING, I mean EVERYTHING for me to fix this. 8 months of love notes every morning...transparent as hell (I have no idea HOW she could hide it - I know her where abouts ALL THE TIME except work and have her TIME SHEETS saying she is on the clock at the hospital!).


Sure she could be terrified you will leave her if she tells you the whole truth.


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> Sure she could be terrified you will leave her if she tells you the whole truth.


Shocker, it really is this simple.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Would it matter if I said that this woman comes from an unreal family and those people are like gold character wise. Never did anything wrong. How could she be so broken? Maybe she could be telling the truth.


The character of her family doesn't mean that she won't lie. My in-laws are good people too, but that didn't stop her. For all you know, your WW might be the black sheep. Just because she doesn't come from a family of cheaters or undesirables, doesn't mean she always tells the truth. Methinks you should take her off that pedestal you have her on.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> The character of her family doesn't mean that she won't lie. My in-laws are good people too, but that didn't stop her. For all you know, your WW might be the black sheep. Just because she doesn't come from a family of cheaters or undesirables, doesn't mean she always tells the truth. Methinks you should take her off that pedestal you have her on.


That is for SURE about the pedistal. This board is dangerous if this woman is telling the truth. Did your cheating wives do everything in the world to show you they loved you? Sex all the time, crying and pleading not to leave, I mean doing everything she can? WHY would she try like that?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Just got off the phone with her...she is crying hysterically at work telling me she would NEVER hurt me again. I've had no other proof of anything but I still think she is lying. I can just feel it.
> 
> *If she is lying now...I think it HAS to be that she is still seeing him. Why else hide it?
> * *Not necessarily, she just might be scared to dead.
> ...


*The all do lie about it*

Please dont take any rash decision, on what to do in you current state.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Just got off the phone with her...she is crying hysterically at work telling me she would NEVER hurt me again. I've had no other proof of anything but I still think she is lying. I can just feel it.
> 
> If she is lying now...I think it HAS to be that she is still seeing him. Why else hide it?
> 
> ...


There is a chance that she ended it when she said she did, and trickle truthed you because she was afraid you would leave her. Which is the cowards way of approaching reconciliation. That's the way that I approached my H when I betrayed him.

I never did another bad thing again, and to this day he's been doing everything in his power to ruin our M, and I still have not gone back to that way of life....so...it entirely depends on what her belief systems are, and whether she has been truly remorseful towards you.

It's up to you whether you want to believe her, or go on in your life without her.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> There is a chance that she ended it when she said she did, and trickle truthed you because she was afraid you would leave her. Which is the cowards way of approaching reconciliation. That's the way that I approached my H when I betrayed him.
> 
> I never did another bad thing again, and to this day he's been doing everything in his power to ruin our M, and I still have not gone back to that way of life....so...it entirely depends on what her belief systems are, and whether she has been truly remorseful towards you.
> 
> It's up to you whether you want to believe her, or go on in your life without her.


I feel paranoid so I kinda know something is up. If she is still seeing him she is a genius at this. I have told her it will kill me if I find her doing it again and I'm taking him with me. She tells me that she would never talk to the piece of S*&T again.

She cries like all the time about what she did. She says she can't believe she did it and will always pay for it. I'm telling you that this woman is around me every SECOND we are together. I know for sure she cares tremedously about me. Thing is this...can a woman really love 2 men like this? I know this woman loves me...I can see it clearly!

I am so torn here. This girl is so nice it is not funny. I mean she has NEVER done ANYTHING wrong in like 7 years except this one thing. I mean nothing wrong! I am mean and she apologizes and cries for me to be nice. She is that nice.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

*She tells me that she would never talk to the piece of S*&T again.*

What did she meant with this? Has she been talking to OM
the whole time sense DD? Or is it just me misunderstanding..


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

*You're all over the map right now*. Take a step back and breathe. Go to the gym, but get your mind off of it for a while. In one post you're certain that she's lying and something is happening, then in another post, you think she's telling the truth and is completely remorseful.

The only fact that is for certain right now is that she TT'd you and it was indeed a PA. The questions now are her not owning up to it (telling you she was forced into it) and the duration and extent of the PA.

If you want R, and to forgive, then it's obvious that you need to know what you're forgiving. Hence the need for full disclosure. Could she be telling the truth? Possibly. But you will have to verify this yourself and not depend on her word for it. You need to know if her tears are from genuine remorse or if they are crocodile tears.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

She told me she ended it on DD. Told him she could not talk to him because she loves her husband. The next day I told her I love her and she called it "the best day of my life" for me to show her I loved her. She says she has been 100% commited to fixing this since that day. 

She can lie...no doubt but can she be this terrible and hide it and show my unbelievable love and regret? She'd have to be sick right?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> I feel paranoid so I kinda know something is up. If she is still seeing him she is a genius at this. I have told her it will kill me if I find her doing it again and I'm taking him with me. She tells me that she would never talk to the piece of S*&T again.
> 
> She cries like all the time about what she did. She says she can't believe she did it and will always pay for it. I'm telling you that this woman is around me every SECOND we are together. I know for sure she cares tremedously about me. Thing is this...can a woman really love 2 men like this? I know this woman loves me...I can see it clearly!
> 
> I am so torn here. This girl is so nice it is not funny. I mean she has NEVER done ANYTHING wrong in like 7 years except this one thing. I mean nothing wrong! I am mean and she apologizes and cries for me to be nice. She is that nice.


Yes, a person can love two people. It's called splitting, disassociation, cake eating, etc. 

Yes, the affair can be waaay underground and she may be lying to keep the marriage. 

Affairs are not about security like the real spouse, they are about intrigue, the thrill of the illicit, the new puppy love feeling. 

It's a dopamine rush, like gambling, chocolate, alcohol and drugs, it's addictive. 

Hire a detective and get a poly and put your mind at ease. 

It's also possible she's telling the truth.

If she's telling the truth, she won't resist the poly.

She is may not be sick or evil unless she has a personality disorder. 

She could be addicted. addicts lie.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> The character of her family doesn't mean that she won't lie. My in-laws are good people too, but that didn't stop her. For all you know, your WW might be the black sheep. Just because she doesn't come from a family of cheaters or undesirables, doesn't mean she always tells the truth. Methinks you should take her off that pedestal you have her on.


And to be clear. Every person including her family members are fallible. What happened was wrong and what she's doing to keep it covered up is wrong but that does not mean she can't become something better. It might even think covering up stuff but wanting to do better but I'm not sure of my ability to judge that.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Shocker said:


> That is for SURE about the pedistal. This board is dangerous if this woman is telling the truth. Did your cheating wives do everything in the world to show you they loved you? Sex all the time, crying and pleading not to leave, I mean doing everything she can? WHY would she try like that?


My girl friend who became my wife seems pretty special to me. Maybe better than I deserve in all other regards. She had been good for me for years before I had full disclosure and to be honest that was the thing that allowed me to consider R. Looking back on it, the incident was 16 years ago and I got full disclosure 5-6 years after that so it's distant now. Even now though both bug me sometimes.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Shocker said:


> I feel paranoid so I kinda know something is up. If she is still seeing him she is a genius at this. I have told her it will kill me if I find her doing it again and I'm taking him with me. She tells me that she would never talk to the piece of S*&T again.
> 
> She cries like all the time about what she did. She says she can't believe she did it and will always pay for it. I'm telling you that this woman is around me every SECOND we are together. I know for sure she cares tremedously about me. Thing is this...can a woman really love 2 men like this? I know this woman loves me...I can see it clearly!
> 
> I am so torn here. This girl is so nice it is not funny. I mean she has NEVER done ANYTHING wrong in like 7 years except this one thing. I mean nothing wrong! I am mean and she apologizes and cries for me to be nice. She is that nice.



What are your W's belief systems? Is she spiritual in any way? All I know is, for me, I knew what I did was wrong...not only because of what it did to my M..but I knew what it did to my soul. I felt horrible for doing it. I ended it completely on my own...the one thing I did that was wrong is I trickle truthed my H for a long time...which is what your W is doing.

My H also could not believe I would do anything like that to him..even though he cheated on me for years before it.

If you feel like she is being truly remorseful, but just doesn't want to discuss it because she feels THAT bad about it, then there's always a chance for you both. 

I ask if she is spiritual in any way..because if she is, a day will come where she will be ready to tell you everything...and she will come forth with details if her heart is heavy enough over the "hiding" of details.

I'm not saying I agree with this method..it is cowardice. But it's just what I went through myself. If you feel you absolutely need all the details in order to move on and have a happy relationship with your W, then you will have to take certain measures in order to continue your M.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

It was your gut screaming at you all this time. Somehow the story did not add up and you knew(body language I'm guessing) at some level that you cannot trust her.. How did you find out?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Shocker said:


> I found out EVERYTHING about this fing guy and she knows it. I know where he lives, his ex-wives I mean everything.
> 
> I told her I was going to call him and if needed drop by his house for a chat. Thats when the ball dropped.


Give her bait to get her to confess more.(Last chance to come clean or something like that)



> Also, she said she was "pressured" to do it the one time. Stopped it during because she was appauled and left immediately. She did call him the next day however...hmm. This woman is sick. She slept with me 3 times yesterday and does everything to keep me but I'm bout done here. She has SERIOUS self esteem issues.


This is the standard cheater dialog. I would not worry too much about its veracity. Assume she had sex, enjoyed it and left.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Wait.... When did she have the PA? I am confused. Was it before the first time you caught her on the phone or after you all started R? You need to calm down, stop over thinking, you already said you were thinking the worst and she was doing everything to fix it. What changed, she is still being remorseful, she still loves you, and the OM is a distant bad memory. If she had PA after you caught her on the Phone.... everything you are thinking is valid. 
She was dishonest cause she is scared and ashamed. What she did was wrong, she needs to come clean and tell you everything! talk to her calmly tell her that the last 9 months was a waste cause she was not truthful.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Shocker said:


> She told me she ended it on DD. Told him she could not talk to him because she loves her husband. The next day I told her I love her and she called it "the best day of my life" for me to show her I loved her. She says she has been 100% commited to fixing this since that day.
> 
> She can lie...no doubt but can she be this terrible and hide it and show my unbelievable love and regret? She'd have to be sick right?


Yes she can be that terrible and hide it while showing you unbelievable love and regret. That is exactly what she did for 9 months by hiding the truth from you, by swearing on the bible that it was just talk, nothing physical. I also remember you saying if it was physical then you were out the door.

Remember how he "forced his way into her life"? Remember how she felt "pressured" to have sex with him"? Excuses. Justifications. Bullsh*t.

When you first came here you knew something was not right with her story and you were right. Now you feel like you still do not have the whole truth and you are probably right again.

It is not uncommon for a woman to be able to compartmentalize an affair. It is like she is living two separate lives in her mind and they have no intersection. Her two lives have no affect on each other in her head. She can be the loving, caring, perfect wife to you. Then with him she can be the bad, wild girl sex toy.

Make your decision based on a worse case scenario. She slept with him on multiple occasion and contact continued long after DDay.

If you truly think you want to stay, then tell her she has one chance to tell you the entire truth. Tell her that you will be setting up a polygraph appointment and if you find out she is lying the it is divorce. See what happens.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Actually not coming completely clean is not a sign of remorse. She chose herself and her fear of losing him over doing what he needed for healing


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Just got off the phone with her...she is crying hysterically at work telling me she would NEVER hurt me again. I've had no other proof of anything but I still think she is lying. I can just feel it.
> 
> If she is lying now...I think it HAS to be that she is still seeing him. Why else hide it?
> 
> ...


Yes there is a chance that this was the case but I wouldn't bet the rest of my life on it. Find the truth somehow!! Good or bad!! Tell her that you are going to talk to this guy anyhow and at this point the lies will do the greatest damage to any chances of repairing the marriage. Maybe she will never tell the truth. She might be ashamed and scared of what her family will think of her. Do they know?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Can someone bring me up to speed? She follows him around 24/7, he's still punnishing her, she ended all contact with the OM but he thinks she still in touch with him?

Huh? Which is it?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jonesey said:


> *She tells me that she would never talk to the piece of S*&T again.*
> 
> What did she meant with this?


Maybe she meant she will never talk to him again.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Can someone bring me up to speed? She follows him around 24/7, he's still punnishing her, she ended all contact with the OM but he thinks she still in touch with him?
> 
> Huh? Which is it?


he recently found about PA after she lied about it for 9 months. Good old trickle truth


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

No, Shocker himself is speculating if she could have continued it all along, since she lied to him about the the PA all this time.

Her reaction to him threatening to contact the OM is worrisome. There might be some more to the story.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

This is shockiest tickle truth story I've read/heard of so far!!
It appalls me how she had the nerve and bothered to be an excellent actress for 9 months, every day and every hour, by crying non-stop and keeping details from you. 
I've never been so sorry about any BS here. Had I been you I would have bought her lies and TT way earlier.
Boy you were so strong and remained firm to the idea that there was something more! 
Kudos to you for believing in your gut and not giving up until more truth came out.

I wish you the best of luck in finding everything you're looking for! 

P.s. LordMayhem, you're the master of TT sense. That is your sixth sense lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Odds are she did quit the affair given her reaction to you finding out. Almost everyone that has an affair lies about it. The only thing you can do now is search her phone, texts, computer for that time period. Also, to see if she is still lying about the affair, you have to set up a poly with a good operator. Do not tell her about it until it is time to go. Tell her after you are on your way. 

You will get instructions from the poly operator on how to frame the questions you want answered.

If there is more to it than she has told you, she will most likely breakdown and fess up on the way to the test.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Consider the polygraph. It maybe done, but could the OM have tried to continue talking to her? Could she have done something really out there with him?

Try the polygraph and see if it turns up anything as being false.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

You honestly believe she "loves" you? The woman who lied to you for 9 months? The woman who swore on GOD and the bible that she didn't cheat on you? The whole who had sex with another and prob used you as plan b when that plan and thrill didn't work out? The woman who manipulates you and crys to guilt you into staying?

If that's what love is, I think you're much better off without it.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I suggest the both of go away for a couple of days or do something nice for her. It'll show that you appreciate her efforts to make amends.
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that follows with an EA.... Nonetheless considering what happened post the EA and the OP's own admission that his wife is remorseful and the problem no longer lies with her, it does no good to amplify the situation. It serves no purpose. In the long run, it'll just breed resentment. But you're correct that it could be a lot more serious than we know, or there might be trickle truthing.


Complexity, I'm becoming convinced that many of the posters here , do not want anyone to R and only want to project their hate and anguish onto others. This amplification, by way of imaginary scenerios, and invented" possibilities", is their way of creating doubt and mistrust in the minds of those who want to R. Misery loves company.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

What this woman did was bad enough . There is no need to beat a dead horse.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Badblood I got it wrong, it turned out she did have a PA. It's hard for me to rationalize everything in a worst case scenario. Though I suppose that's warranted with infidelity.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

You did the best you could, with the info you had, at the time.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> can a woman really love 2 men like this?


Man, you need to change your old beliefs about women in general and your wife in particular. You are too naive about this. She never loved that man!, that was not love, it was lust. Yep, your wife. She got flattered, she loved the attention, another man interested in her, lusting for her, for whatever reason she chose to go with it, she couldn't help herself and f0cked him. That's all.
The whole thing lasted what ... 2-3 weeks? 3 encounters?
First, do you want the truth? Then you need to create a "better" enviroment for her to come clean. You told her PA was dealbreaker, you told us she was desperate to keep you. Therefor she lied. That simple.
Now, do you want now the truth? Then be calm, firm but calm, ask her to write down a timeline, the story, wqith dates an all, to get a calendar and jug her memory with whatever she needs and start writing it. Tell her no more lies becuase she's goping to pass a polygraph.
Then cool down a little. You already told us at the beginning you "assumed" in your mind it was a PA.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Maybe she meant she will never talk to him again.


DD was 9 months ago.. Claims nothing happened.
Then like a said 9months liter it turns out it was a affair PA
at least..She has been lying for so long.Hence my question.

Has she been talking to OM the whole time or what?


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I'm sorry, but unless he puts the fear of god into his demands
for her from this moment forward, this poor fella should expect 
nothing but more and more lies and trickle truth.

I hate to say this... but what comes out initially is only a teaser.
Just a little something to test your first reaction. 

It's from this first reaction that they will base their entire castle of lies 
around you until you have no choice but to choose the "best" story... 
and or .... the least hurtful of the all the lies. 

How to stop punishing *HER*?

Are you kidding me?!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Shocker---slow way down---you are all over the place with your conjecture

1st---go back and read this, your own thread, AGAIN----you positively guaranteed that she could do nothing wrong, that she was a female saint that she loved you so much---and then one month later the real truth comes out---now you are throwing out all those same guarantees all over again---just stop

In all reality, you don't really know WHAT YOU HAVE FOR A WIFE---what you do know is she is scared sh*tless of you dumping her

What you do know is that she knows how to connive/manipulate/decieve/lie, and work you into what she wants

What does she really want, does she really love you, or does she just wanna make sure that you stay on as her bank---cuz if she really loved you, as you keep trying to convince yourself, and us---NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE EVER HAPPENED

This guy did not drag your wife kicking and screaming to his house, three times that you know of, and probably a whole lot more

Stop with the she couldn't have done this, and I know where she is/was, fact of the matter, you didn't know then, and may not know now

I suggest you go over to Doc Cool, and read the cheaters playbook, you might just get your eyes opened---cheaters know what they are doing, and how to do it, and half the time THEY ARE FIVE JUMPS AHEAD OF YOU

What ever you do, do not allow her back into her cushy life, and stop allowing her to cry all over you---take her and her clothes, and put them into a small room in your home, and tell her that is where she lives for now---and give her a REAL TASTE OF REALITY, and keep her at arms length.

No mr nice--guy---no lovey--dovey----just bide your time and see how YOU feel about everything----forget her and her wants for right now----you know what she is all about, SHE CHEATS AND SHE LIES, and she knows how to MANIPULATE.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Jonesey said:


> DD was 9 months ago.. Claims nothing happened.
> Then like a said 9months liter it turns out it was a affair PA
> at least..She has been lying for so long.Hence my question.
> 
> Has she been talking to OM the whole time or what?


I have monitored her phone, our laptop, her time sheets at work and been with her almost all the time for this 9 months. We have come so far in this relationship. 

That said, I did ask her flat out DO YOU SEE THIS MAN AT LUNCH? She got defensive. I can see deceit in her. I cried last night when I saw it. I am very, very scared that she is still talking with this man. If so, it is WAY to late.

We have done counseling, talked every night for 9 months, she has slept with me almost every night for 9 months. She cries, pleads, etc that she loves me and would NEVER do anything EVER. She is begging for me to forgive her and move on. 

If she is seeing this man right now she is definately totally attached and my marriage and beautiful family are gone. We have 4 kids. I am so afraid that I am going to be destroyed by this woman.

I swear to look at her she is the nicest person in the world. I cannot believe in a million years she would hurt someone like this. It is unfathomable.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She was seeing him at lunch all this time? Oh God!! Can't she be truthful one f*cking time?

Don't give in to the crying. They mean nothing. Crying is one hell of a manipulative weapon. A man usually cannot bear to see someone he loves crying.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> She was seeing him at lunch all this time? Oh God!! Can't she be faithful one f*cking time?


I cannot say for sure but I see something there. It is killing me to see that. She is begging me that she is not lying. I'm in big trouble and I know it.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Maybe she met him a few times at lunch. Ask her for a polygraph. The problem here that she know you might break it off if she reveals further. Give her an incentive or a bait.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Maybe she met him a few times at lunch. Ask her for a polygraph. The problem here that she know you might break it off if she reveals further. Give her an incentive or a bait.


:iagree:



I vote for a polygraph to


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Shocker said:


> She is begging me that she is not lying.


That's what she's been doing/saying for the past 9 months, yet you found out other unrevealed details about the affair.

What makes you think she might be telling the truth now? Where's the difference this time?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> I have monitored her phone, our laptop, her time sheets at work and been with her almost all the time for this 9 months. We have come so far in this relationship.
> 
> That said, I did ask her flat out DO YOU SEE THIS MAN AT LUNCH? She got defensive. I can see deceit in her. I cried last night when I saw it. I am very, very scared that she is still talking with this man. If so, it is WAY to late.
> 
> ...


The fact that she is insisting you move on already is not a good sign. 

2 to five years is needed to heal. And, you will never forget this.

I found out way after the fact that my spouse was porn addicted. Research an article called "this is your brain on Porn" in science daily. 

With the internet, porn addictions can get pretty perverse. 

There are so many outrageous sex videos on teh internet and even live interactions via skype that It gets to the point where normal sex, even adventurous sex is no longer stimulating. They need something perverse to be satisfied.

Internet porn is leading to far higher rates of infidelity. 

Women can be just as addicted to internet porn as can a man. 

So try to find out if she is viewing internet porn. If she is, she may still be seeing this man.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> The fact that she is insisting you move on already is not a good sign.
> 
> 2 to five years is needed to heal. And, you will never forget this.
> 
> ...


No f*&king way on the porn thing. That is not it for sure. This board is dangerous if my wife is telling me the truth. I'm about to leave her over suspecting her. That doesn't sound right.

Just got this text:

"I am praying to God that you realize how much I love you and can believe that I am not and have not seen him. Because I am not, have not and would not hurt you again ever. I LOVE YOU AND ONLY YOU!"

I get stuff like that all the time. :scratchhead:


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Maybe she met him a few times at lunch. Ask her for a polygraph. The problem here that she know you might break it off if she reveals further. Give her an incentive or a bait.


I have done that over and over. I told her today that I would forgive anything and everything if she just stops. She cries hysterically that SHE HAS NOT EVER SEEN HIM OR TALKED TO HIM AT ALL. EVER.

It makes me feel crazy.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> No f*&king way on the porn thing. That is not it for sure. This board is dangerous if my wife is telling me the truth. I'm about to leave her over suspecting her. That doesn't sound right.
> 
> Just got this text:
> 
> ...


This board is not dangerous if your wife is telling the truth. 

If she is the poly and detective will verify it as I and others have suggested. 

You first came here claiming your wife only had an EA. I knew immediately that was a lie and so did many others. 

Your wife at the very least is a liar. You need to verify that she is not STILL LYING. 

I am confused, you have received good advice here but seem to resent it or suggest it is dangerous to the poor woman who lied and deceived you. 

Your wife is more dangerous to your health and wealth being than this board. 

If she is still cheating she can give you Hep C, a deadly disease that can cause liver cancer, HIV, herpes, and all other assorted disgusting STDs. 

Those will either kill you or mark you for life and make it difficult to find a new relationship without first revealing your STD. 

Some viral STDs can go through condoms and be spread by kissing or oral sex if one's gums are bleeding. 

Keeping yourself in the dark is dangerous to you, as is your wife, if she is still cheating. 

The people here are trying to inform you. 

I was a naive dupe for years. My spouse was a serial cheater, when I came here and learned the red flags I realized that. 

Prior years ago, I found condoms in his wallet. He lied and made some excuse for having them and I believed him, because I wanted to. 

Women calling the house asking for him, too frequently. He always had an excuse for why they called. Business. Yeah right just like he condoms also Numerous late night hangups, etc. 

All red flags that I ignored. 

I also tried to reconcile for six months with my STBEH. 

I thought things were going great. I soon learned he was still talking to the serial cheater OW. And he was going to sex clubs and was porn addicted. I only found out because someone sent me anonymous proof. 

This board is not dangerous, keeping one's head in the sand is dangerous.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Shocker said:


> I have done that over and over. I told her today that I would forgive anything and everything if she just stops. She cries hysterically that SHE HAS NOT EVER SEEN HIM OR TALKED TO HIM AT ALL. EVER.
> 
> It makes me feel crazy.


Polygraph. Tell her these are the after effects of her lying for 9 months. That the lies are much worse than the cheating itself


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Polygraph testers are easy to find on Google in your area. Their two main clients are the police and cheating spouses.

Find the polygraph tester, make an appointment and take her there to it. 

Meet your gut felling head on.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Polygraph testers are easy to find on Google in your area. Their two main clients are the police and cheating spouses.
> 
> Find the polygraph tester, make an appointment and take her there to it.
> 
> Meet your gut felling head on.


Yes. excellent advice. 

Ask her to do the poly. 

If she is lying she won't want to do it. 

Ask about prior affairs, sexting, porn viewing, is she still seeing him, does she love him, etc. 

You also might want to have to different polygraphers interpret the results for extra accuracy.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> That said, I did ask her flat out DO YOU SEE THIS MAN AT LUNCH? She got defensive. I can see deceit in her. I cried last night when I saw it. I am very, very scared that she is still talking with this man. If so, it is WAY to late.


:redcard:

Now this is a red flag. WHY would she get defensive about this? Think about it. And I don't understand why you said this a second time, that this site is dangerous for your wife if she's telling the truth. In fact, its the opposite. Yes, if you can afford a polygraph, then I suggest you do it. That way you can finally put your mind at ease and head to R.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

I have been around the block and I am still continuously surprised by some people's ability to lie. Even my very religious, very straight laced wife who all would agree is like Cinderella or some other Disney character with singing birds following her around. Still when faced with knowing I would be done with her if I found out about contact, she lied and it was undetectable other than being appalled and mildly angry that I dared to doubt her.

I found contact after all that..

POLYGRAPH! It's the only way to be sure


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

If you can't afford it. Plan it and start to follow through , she will crack if there is something to crack over.

Good luck.. And oh yeah, go to the other man and make it known that you will break bones if he even looks in her direction. It has worked for me...enough said.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

dogman said:


> I have been around the block and I am still continuously surprised by some people's ability to lie. Even my very religious, very straight laced wife who all would agree is like Cinderella or some other Disney character with singing birds following her around. Still when faced with knowing I would be done with her if I found out about contact, she lied and it was undetectable other than being appalled and mildly angry that I dared to doubt her.
> 
> I found contact after all that..
> 
> POLYGRAPH! It's the only way to be sure


This is a good point. The OW in my STBEH's case, taught Sunday school and was extremely active in the church. 

She lied to her husband for 8 months. And, he never found out about the first affair or the girl/girl stuff she's into. 

She also offered to take my husband to a sex club and sent him porn videos of herself as well as wild commercial porn videos. 

I accidently found the portable hard drive stuffed with information. This woman teaches Sunday school to 14 year old boys.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Let me add something...

Before this happened I was an alcoholic (my wife NEVER drinks) and I ignored her most of the time. 

Now I am with her all the time and quit drinking. I am three times the husband and father I ever was then. So she could possibly have gotten rid of that guy (wanting ME the whole time) and never gone back and is WAITING for me to heal. 

That COULD BE TRUE right? She says that ALL THE TIME. She tells me he reminded her of me all the time and how she ALWAYS loved me especially when she was with this man. She said she felt like vomiting. She was SCARED and felt horrible about it and knew it was wrong. I did not offer her that...those are her words.

I cannot for sure know EXACTLY what happened but she is still here telling me she is waiting for me to trust her and love her. She says that is ALL she wants in this life and it means the world to her. She wants us FIXED. WHY NOT JUST GO GET THE GUY?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Let me add something...
> 
> Before this happened I was an alcoholic (my wife NEVER drinks) and I ignored her most of the time.
> 
> ...


Shocker:

I totally agree. She could be remorseful, she could be telling the truth.

But you were wrong the first time about it only being and EA.

Also, ask yourself why you are still suspicioius. 

here you are in one breath saying you think she is still lying, then in the next you defend her. 

I did the same thing for years. At one point a stranger came up to me and told me she saw my husband with his arms around a woman at a bar when he was supposed to be with the boys. I asked my spouse, he lied and denied. I believed him not her. I wanted to beleive him.

and even months after official DDay. 

All we are saying is get a poly. 

You will put your mind at ease. 

Poly's cost about $200 to $400 dollars. 

It's worth every penny. Even just her reaction to it will tell you a lot.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Shocker:
> 
> I totally agree. She could be remorseful, she could be telling the truth.
> 
> ...


She said fine when I told her about this. I know...I am terrified to trust her again right now but there is NO question that this woman loves me very deeply. No doubt. She wants me and NOT just this family. I know that. Again, we are face to face every night, every day all day talking, kissing, crying, etc. ALL THE TIME. Why would someone fake all that?

BTW: She has a serious anxiety problem from way back (anorexia) and gets scared to death when I get mad. Couldn't that explain her strange behavior? I am trying to fix this marrige and those things seem reasonable?

In fact how does a woman with that disorder just do this? She would be terrified all the time. I'm not sure she COULD do it realistically.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> This is a good point. The OW in my STBEH's case, taught Sunday school and was extremely active in the church.
> 
> She lied to her husband for 8 months. And, he never found out about the first affair or the girl/girl stuff she's into.
> 
> ...


:rant:

I really don't understand the rationale behind why men/women sexting pictures and nude videos of themselves to their APs. Don't they EVER think that these pictures and vids will end up in the wrong hands or even the internet and someone will find out? Or even worse, that their kids might see it.










It never ceases to amaze me the stupid things people will do while they are in an affair.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

This COULD be true. That COULD be true.

You COULD actually be in the Matrix and none of this is actually happening.

Anything could be true.

But ALL the things you suspect and all the things you are afraid are true also could be true. 

You now know that she is truly a cheater. You now know that she lied about it being physical for 9 months. You now know she is capable of manipulating you to get what she wants.

She could actually be remorseful. She could have learned her lesson and will not do it again. Anything is possible.

You HAVE to separate what actually is true from what could be true if you truly want to move forward and recover from this. You need the entire truth to make a decision. You do not feel that you have the truth, so you can not move forward.

Good luck.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> She said fine when I told her about this. I know...I am terrified to trust her again right now but there is NO question that this woman loves me very deeply. No doubt. She wants me and NOT just this family. I know that. Again, we are face to face every night, every day all day talking, kissing, crying, etc. ALL THE TIME. Why would someone fake all that?
> 
> BTW: She has a serious anxiety problem from way back (anorexia) and gets scared to death when I get mad. Couldn't that explain her strange behavior? I am trying to fix this marrige and those things seem reasonable?


If she is telling the truth the poly will put your mind at ease. 

A person can fake love and remorse if they have a peronality disorder like narcissistic personality disorder or any of the others. 

I am so sorry you are here. We only want you to stay alert. 

If you find out later that she is still in the affair you will be in so much more pain. 

Also if you want to save your marriage you need to ensure the affair is over. 

She needs counseling, too. 

You can only reconcile if the affair is over.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> :rant:
> 
> I really don't understand the rationale behind why men/women sexting pictures and nude videos of themselves to their APs. Don't they EVER think that these pictures and vids will end up in the wrong hands or even the internet and someone will find out? Or even worse, that their kids might see it.
> 
> ...


Agreed, LM. 

Alas, compartmentalization, splitting, disassociation, and denial are all powerful and real psychological issues.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

I think going to make your intent known to the man is important for several reasons...
1. He needs to stay away from her, so you both can heal
2. You take back your power he stole from you. This is huge for your mental health
3. You show your wife you will do "whatever it takes" there is nothing more alpha. 

I work in construction and this is sort of like prison rules. Stand up or be fronted on over and over. 

But this does not have to become violent. The overtone is all that is needed. If your out gunned, bring friends. Any way you slice it he can ruin this for you both.

Oh yeah and a polygraph.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> BTW: She has a serious anxiety problem from way back (anorexia) and gets scared to death when I get mad. Couldn't that explain her strange behavior? I am trying to fix this marrige and those things seem reasonable?
> 
> In fact how does a woman with that disorder just do this? She would be terrified all the time. I'm not sure she COULD do it realistically.


An anxiety disorder can be at the root of the problem. 

Anxiety and stress are often reasons people cheat. 

They are unhappy so they look for a fairy tale world of an affair. 

As for the terror. That aspect often only serves to make the affair all the more exciting.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> She said fine when I told her about this. I know...I am terrified to trust her again right now but there is NO question that this woman loves me very deeply. No doubt. She wants me and NOT just this family. I know that. Again, we are face to face every night, every day all day talking, kissing, crying, etc. ALL THE TIME. Why would someone fake all that?
> 
> BTW: She has a serious anxiety problem from way back (anorexia) and gets scared to death when I get mad. Couldn't that explain her strange behavior? I am trying to fix this marrige and those things seem reasonable?
> 
> In fact how does a woman with that disorder just do this? She would be terrified all the time. I'm not sure she COULD do it realistically.


Throughout all your posts, this theme is clear: You are so very desperate to prove that your wife is telling the truth and is remorseful and that you're at fault for her cheating.

Yet now she's admitted to a PA despite your previous attempts to prove it was an EA. In a previous post, you were "pretty damn sure" she never slept with this OM, yet she did. And she gets defensive if you ask her if she's been calling or seeing him during her lunch hour. Otherwise you claim she's tearful and remorseful all the time.

Have you exposed this OM yet? This OM is a neighbor who lives down the street according to your original post. Does he have a wife or girlfriend? If so, have you exposed the affair to her?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Shocker

I think the poly is a great idea.

Just curious, Did you ever speak to the OM? 

Would you feel better confronting him or questioning him?

And if you do the key is not telling your wife you were going to do it.

Do you ever think your wife thought she lost you to alcoholism and she is just happy to have you back???

HM64


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Throughout all your posts, this theme is clear: You are so very desperate to prove that your wife is telling the truth and is remorseful and that you're at fault for her cheating.
> 
> Yet now she's admitted to a PA despite your previous attempts to prove it was an EA. In a previous post, you were "pretty damn sure" she never slept with this OM, yet she did. And she gets defensive if you ask her if she's been calling or seeing him during her lunch hour. Otherwise you claim she's tearful and remorseful all the time.
> 
> Have you exposed this OM yet? This OM is a neighbor who lives down the street according to your original post. Does he have a wife or girlfriend? If so, have you exposed the affair to her?


No but I know his ex wife pretty well. Was thinking of calling her to see if he has mentioned something about seeing someone.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

OP
From how you've described her behavior I tend to believe that the A is over and that she truly feels remorse and wants to work toward a full R. 
I don't think a poly is necessary for two reasons. 
1. They really are not that reliable - so I'd only chance them IF I was *almost certain* my spouse was lying. 
2. There are bound to be several "inconclusive" results to several important questions - that would lead to no real resolution. 

In YOUR CASE I'd be inclined to move forward with a clean slate for both. You've admitted you had issues of your own - and have addressed them. Let her be - love her, let her love you, let your family heal and reap the rewards of a healthy family that went through a traumatic and very human experience. 

IF there really is an ongoing affair (as a few here suspect) it will soon be 'outed'. But try to bestow the mantle of trust upon her as she earns it. 

Good luck to your family.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

walkonmars said:


> OP
> From how you've described her behavior I tend to believe that the A is over and that she truly feels remorse and wants to work toward a full R.
> I don't think a poly is necessary for two reasons.
> 1. They really are not that reliable - so I'd only chance them IF I was *almost certain* my spouse was lying.
> ...












Rugsweeping never does anyone any good whatsoever.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Shocker said:


> No but I know his ex wife pretty well. Was thinking of calling her to see if he has mentioned something about seeing someone.


Then do it if it will make you fell better.

And do not tell your wife you are doing it because if she finds out then ask her who told her?????

Then you know she spoke to OM. 

And 9 months of TT is a killer. And your wife just might be crushed about what she did to you.

Are you both getting counselling independently.

HM64


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Rugsweeping never does anyone any good whatsoever.


I agree. Bad council says "it's over now just move on". 

This leads to more heart ache.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I would tell her that for 9 months you knew she was lying, and for nine months she kept that lie up. You eventually found out because you could tell she wasn't being honest.

Tell her you still feel there is something she's holding back. Tell her the only chance this marriage has is for you to feel that she's done lying. Tell her that this marriage won't last if she's lying, because you will eventually find it all out. That you've lost 9 months and could be further along if she'd only told you the truth.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

Shocker said:


> No but I know his ex wife pretty well. Was thinking of calling her to see if he has mentioned something about seeing someone.


 Why talk to the ex? You need to talk to the OM directly. See if his story matches your wife's. 

I don't know why so many BS avoid this talk with the OM. Go to the source and stop the bleeding.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

:iagree:

Once he figures out you're not there to kick his ass, he's got no reason to hold anything back from you.

So often what the WS is still hiding is that she didn't use protection, and/or she did things with him she wouldn't do with you.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

You know what...my marriage and family are over now. 

Cannot believe it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> You know what...my marriage and family are over now.
> 
> Cannot believe it.


Why do you say this? Did you find out more information?

If not, then your marriage can be salvaged, provided she continues being transparent, empathetic to your feelings and no more trickle truth. But that's entirely up to you.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Why do you say this? Did you find out more information?
> 
> If not, then your marriage can be salvaged, provided she continues being transparent, empathetic to your feelings and no more trickle truth. But that's entirely up to you.


OP perhaps fund out. that the affair was going on. Even after
DD.. Damit i hope im wrong


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Jonesey said:


> OP perhaps fund out. that the affair was going on. Even after
> DD.. Damit i hope im wrong


I don't know anything yet but I just know this is over now. My kids will be so hurt. I am so lost right now. Ugg.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> I don't know anything yet but I just know this is over now. My kids will be so hurt. I am so lost right now. Ugg.


*You are on the emotional roller coaster right now*. This is very normal. One moment you love her so much and can't live without her, the next moment, you can't stand the sight of her and want to kick her to the curb immediately.

Believe me, you will be changing your mind again soon.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

go exercise, go for a walk, fly a kite, whatever it is, just do something to relax and let the racing thoughts subside into something you can grasp better


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> go exercise, go for a walk, fly a kite, whatever it is, just do something to relax and let the racing thoughts subside into something you can grasp better


:iagree:

And if he needs to, see a doctor and get on some meds to help stabilize his emotions.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> *You are on the emotional roller coaster right now*. This is very normal. One moment you love her so much and can't live without her, the next moment, you can't stand the sight of her and want to kick her to the curb immediately.
> 
> Believe me, you will be changing your mind again soon.


Mr. LM is absolutely right on target.

Do not make any lasting decisions while you are on this emotional journey that is fueled by rage and anger on day, then the next day sadness and lost love.

You right about one thing. Your current marriage is over. Your wife killed it. But nothing says you cannot build a new, stronger marriage if you are both committed to doing the work it takes to do that.

Your one big hang up in all of this is that you feel that she is still lieing to you about something. Do the polygraph. Get the truth. Then decide what you want to do.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

You might talk to the OM but if you do take into consideration several factors. Cheaters lie and the OM (if he talks to you) more than likely will lie and you may be no further ahead. You may lose it and do something that you might regret for the rest of your life. My advise is don't talk to the OM. That is my opinion. I would love to talk to the OM and would if I knew I would get information that I feel I need but it is at best a crap shoot. In my state of mind I may end killing the SOB so I advoid him. In January I broke into the meat plant where he works and was going to do harm to him. I posted about this earlier and fortunately everyone in the plant was off site at a holiday party. I would not do it.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> You might talk to the OM but if you do take into consideration several factors. Cheaters lie and the OM (if he talks to you) more than likely will lie and you may be no further ahead. You may lose it and do something that you might regret for the rest of your life. My advise is don't talk to the OM. That is my opinion. I would love to talk to the OM and would if I knew I would get information that I feel I need but it is at best a crap shoot. In my state of mind I may end killing the SOB so I advoid him. In January I broke into the meat plant where he works and was going to do harm to him. I posted about this earlier and fortunately everyone in the plant was off site at a holiday party. I would not do it.


No, I want him not breathing to much to go down to his house.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

How do you stop the rollercoaster by the way?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Shocker said:


> How do you stop the rollercoaster by the way?


There is no way to stop or get off the emotional roller coaster, only time, and true remorse shown by her actions, will eventually lessen the dips and the highs. As time goes by and you begin to heal, the dips and the highs start to level out. For some, it takes years. 

Usually what causes you to go into the dip of the emotional roller coaster ride is a trigger. Something will trigger you. Read the newbie link in my signature.

Right now you're not that far off from a major TT revelation, so I can imagine you're triggering quite often now and being hypervigilant. Hence, the emotional roller coaster ride.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Give it a week before you decide anything. See where you are at on September 5th. You can't stop the emotional roller coaster. You will have a great moment and then get hit in the gut hard the next. Your mind will go all over the place. You will have mind movies of your wife and the OM. Listen, you can call it quits if you want, I would not blame you, but give it time. You do not have to make a decision today or tomorrow. Things do get better in time and you are only in the beginning of finding out. Keep in mind that things may become worse as she tells you things. No matter if you try R or D it will suck either way so I would say give it a week.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Forgot to mention that people here have reported that meds can help smooth out the roller coaster ride.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> Forgot to mention that people here have reported that meds can help smooth out the roller coaster ride.


Thanks again everyone. I appreciate your help with this.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Thanks again everyone. I appreciate your help with this.


Think about this. It might help you.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Jonesey said:


> Think about this. It might help you.


Thanks man. Much appreciated.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Thanks man. Much appreciated.


No problem. i hope it helps


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

This thread is a trip. Saving this one. 

In the end I will be single again. And free to do whateva I want.
Not too bad.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You will divorce her?


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Obviously she has been given WAY to much rope to begin with so probably.

If there is another TT thats the ball game as they say. 

F*&^ing shame!


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## thesunwillcomeout (Jun 25, 2012)

Shocker, I was up at 4am reading your thread and went back to read my first post so I could "remember" everything. I'm 6 months out and hoping I'm not back at 8 with the same kind of update. Thinking of you!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

thesunwillcomeout said:


> Shocker, I was up at 4am reading your thread and went back to read my first post so I could "remember" everything. I'm 6 months out and hoping I'm not back at 8 with the same kind of update. Thinking of you!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope not too man. My wife did everything I can image to make me think she loves me. If I find out that is a lie that is a killer blow. It hurts so bad I could die.

Hell, I am not even sure yet. Just feel it though.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> How do you stop the rollercoaster by the way?


You can't as LM and others said, don't even try. 

Also, it's normal for the true impact of what happened complete with more hypervigilance to hit you nine months after the 1st Dday. 

That is why you are so suspicious. '

That is why a poly or a detective or both can put your mind at ease. 

You need proof she is not cheating so you can make a decision. 

If she's still in the affair that may or may not change the fact that you want reconciliation, but the affair needs to end first before you can move forward and heal and reconcile. 

Please don't make any rash decisions now.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Obviously she has been given WAY to much rope to begin with so probably.
> 
> If there is another TT thats the ball game as they say.
> 
> F*&^ing shame!


Shocker:

You need to find out first if she is still having an affair. 

If you want to divorce that is okay. I totally understand. An affair even a one nighter involving your spouse (your supposed best friend) and life partner is devastating. 

But don't manufacture excuses to divorce her such as a false accusation of cheating still. 

Just tell her the truth. Tell her you can no longer trust her and that had damaged the marriage too much.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Shocker:
> 
> Just tell her the truth. Tell her you can no longer trust her and that had damaged the marriage too much.


I have told her that many a time...didn't really mean it much though. I'm screwed but thats life. I think I'm going to play strong and not care about this stuff anymore. If I can't take it...I'll leave.

Maybe playing strong will help things. It will be damn hard but I am not breaking down to this woman anymore. F*&^K that.
I'll be nice and play along until she decides to tell me another lie, if one is coming.

You know she asked me if we could get remarried a few weeks back. It is so unreal I cannot believe it with the way she has tried so hard with me. Can't get my head around it. Damn.

Before DD I would have said this woman was the best person I have ever met by far. She is that nice. Whipes me out.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Shocker said:


> I hope not too man. My wife did everything I can image to make me think she loves me. If I find out that is a lie that is a killer blow. It hurts so bad I could die.
> 
> Hell, I am not even sure yet. Just feel it though.


From what you have posted I will say that I think your wife now realizes that she does love you and wants to be with you and wants to build a stronger marriage with you. I think she may have learned her lesson.

That being said - I think she is still holding something back due to the fear that it will cause you to walk away. It may be that they had sex more than once. It may be that she did something for him that she refused or did not like doing with you. It may be that they had sex in your house. From her reaction to your question about her talking to OM during her lunch time, I think she probably has talked to him, but probably only to get the stories straight. I really think she is acting out of the fear of losing you.

Of course I could be wrong.

Tell her you are on the verge of giving up because you feel that she is holding something back - lying about something. Give her one chance to come clean. Ask her "What are you afraid to tell me?" Then have your questions ready - the things you feel you need to know - write them down. Then polygraph.

I think you are just overwhelmed with the situation at the moment. You are mentally and physically exhausted. Give it some time before you decide to walk away for good. Let your emotions calm down and let your body rest.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> From what you have posted I will say that I think your wife now realizes that she does love you and wants to be with you and wants to build a stronger marriage with you. I think she may have learned her lesson.
> 
> That being said - I think she is still holding something back due to the fear that it will cause you to walk away. It may be that they had sex more than once. It may be that she did something for him that she refused or did not like doing with you. It may be that they had sex in your house. From her reaction to your question about her talking to OM during her lunch time, I think she probably has talked to him, but probably only to get the stories straight. I really think she is acting out of the fear of losing you.
> 
> ...


Good stuff. I told her all that and told her I would forgive everything in the past. I'm gonna leave the stuff alone for a while if thats possible. See what happens.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> I have told her that many a time...didn't really mean it much though. I'm screwed but thats life. I think I'm going to play strong and not care about this stuff anymore. If I can't take it...I'll leave.
> 
> Maybe playing strong will help things. It will be damn hard but I am not breaking down to this woman anymore. F*&^K that.
> I'll be nice and play along until she decides to tell me another lie, if one is coming.
> ...


I know. I felt the same about my STBEH. 

We had our issues, but I still thought he was honest, sweet guy. 

He likes to think of himself that way and he likes others to see him that way and he even often described himself that way.

My STBEH was NOT trying the way your wife is. 

So don't make any rash decisions.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I know. I felt the same about my STBEH.
> 
> We had our issues, but I still thought he was honest, sweet guy.
> 
> ...


You still with him? Don't understand acryonms on here yet.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Acronyms are in the newbie link in my signature

STBXH= soon to be ex husband


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Before DD I would have said this woman was the best person I have ever met by far. She is that nice. Whipes me out.


What has 'being nice' got to do with cheating? 
You keep on bringing this up over and over.

Just because someone is nice doesn't mean they can't cheat.,
Just because someone is NOT nice doesn't mean they can cheat.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Shocker, it has to do with your tolerance level. How much can you take? You will continue to get TT and you will find out more based upon what you have said about your wife. Like I said before give it a week man. This stuff is eating you up and many of us have been there. Believe me when I say you can tell her to tell you everything and she won't. I really do not know why some of our wives do this to us. My wife is still doing it to me by not coming clean on everything and then the months of lies. December to April was the worse. Step back if you can and try to regroup. You have been hit hard.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Good stuff. I told her all that and told her I would forgive everything in the past. I'm gonna leave the stuff alone for a while if thats possible. See what happens.


Maybe she really has nothing. keep observing. If there is nothing else, she is in a much worse position. Just keep that in mind


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Shocker,

How long were you drinking for during the marriage?

How long do you think you were not in the marriage due to your alcoholism?

HM64


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

From your desciption of your wife, I don't find it difficult to believe she loves you like she says but did not have the courage to tell you about the PA becasue she was scared to death you would leave her. Most every cheater does this. However, that doesn't mean you can't get over this. As a matter of fact I have never seen any wayward spouse here act as remorseful as she has.

If you did not have children, I might suggest divorce, but with four kids and her remorse, I would pray you give this every chance of working.

Why haven't you considered the polygraph nearly everyone is recommending?

From her past problems, is she in counseling?

You also need individual counseling immediately with a counselor experienced with infidelity AND Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

You can do this but its time to step up and be strong for your family.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shocker said:


> You still with him? Don't understand acryonms on here yet.


No I filed for divorce after trying to reconcile for six months. 

I found out he was still in contact with her, not sexually but talking and sharing personal details about me. 

Also, he was addicted to porn and still going to get lap dances.


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