# Doctor visit went horrible



## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I finally got husband to make an appointment with a doctor today over sex drive. He has tried to mention it in the past to other doctors but wasn't very forthcoming with his actual issues. This time I went with him to back him up.


This doctor pissed me off. I stayed to myself and let my husband talk. This doctor came in and introduced himself to husband with a handshake and never acknowledged I was sitting there. The this guy asked why my husband was there which he should have known before he walked in that door. So my husband says I am here because I have no energy, no desire for sex, gaining weight, etc. I told the doctor that I think some depression also. Doctor ignored me. He asked if husband gets a morning erection and husband said sometimes which wasn't true. So I looked at husband and told doctor he will get them if I am doing something to stimulate one but not one on it's own. This guy tells my husband that you can get an erection and not actually be turned on or attracted to someone. I sort of thought to myself did I just misinterpret that. So he tells husband lose weight that might help. Husband told him that he is working on that but these symptoms have been around before the weight. This guy just says being overweight will cause T levels to go down and not acknowledging that the weight is a result. I told this doctor did you listen that the T levels were low before the weight and the man put up his hand at me to not talk. 

My husband then asked him if the weight came off and the symptoms are still there what are our options and this guy said nothing anyone can do and you will just have to accept it. I am thinking hey this is not true. I told him there are other factors that can be causing these symptoms other than weight and what tests or referrals can be done to rule them out. He looked at me and with a condescending laugh and told me what tests do you think needs to be done because we have done them all last year. I said you did the normal annual tests only he just abruptly cut me off and saide there are no additional tests, there are no specialists, nothing can be done. He also let us know to not be asking for HRT or anything else because it isn't going to happen. He repeatedly told us over and over that there is not one thing we can do about it. He wouldn't go over diet, or supplements, or vitamins, or what type of exercises or possible medication interference, not even an offer of a antidepressant or referral to a psych eval. Nothing...like don't bother him again. 

He was rather abrupt to husband and definitely disrespectful to me. We both actually ended up not saying or asking anything else because we were so taken aback by this attitude. He wrote us a RX for viagra and opened the door. 

I so kept my mouth shut until my husband whispered to me I saw what he kept doing to you. I told him wait until you see what I do to him. I got in the hallway in front of nurses and patients and loudly fired his ass. I fired him 10 through the waiting room, the hallway and all the way to the elevator. I headed straight to member services and loudly fired his ass there too and filed a complaint. I told them to find someone who can actually consult with us, speak to us respectfully, ask us questions and answer ours, offer solutions or advice or tests or referrals to rule out underlying causes so we feel better, someone who will help us with quality of life, and/or help treat the symptoms AND we better not have an additional copay.


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## ChessMa (Apr 15, 2014)

Dang, you are my hero. I feared you were going to tell us you both went home with heads down and let this guy get away with that treatment. If I were you, I would keep calling member services and keep complaining and tell them you are so distraught by the way he treated you that you think you need to therapist. Go to his office another day and perform in front of a new set of his patients. LOL


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I was so livid. I told everyone in that waiting room that I have never had been talk down and treated so disrespectfully from a doctor in my life. I was so mad that I passed the pharmacy and husband says uh do you want to get that filled? I said yes we are getting it filled and then we are filing a complaint!

Complaint office didn't even ask us to write a report and leave it with them. The called us right in to speak to someone and they wrote it up. I had a smile when husband asked the woman if that doctor refusing to help us with our problem and telling us they will do nothing is their hospital policy. The lady says no and husband said oh good so our expectations are you are going to work with us.

Husband is emailing his primary about this guy and we do have an appointment set through the VA in a couple weeks too.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

First time my husband saw a doc about his ED the doc suggested he see a hooker. I kid you not!

We found a new doc! 

Looks like you'll be finding a new doc soon too!


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

My husband said that he knew I was going to blow as soon as he saw the doctor put his hand up in my face. I wasn't hardly even talking at that point. I only had said 2 sentences. As far as asking for a referral, we were told on the phone from the advice nurse that we most likely will need a referral to an urologist. So when I asked about it he just flat out told me that why would we need an urologist because they can't do anything and we might need a endo doctor but he doesn't see any use for that either.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Good job. Doctors have bad days, but this sounded like a bad doctor on any day.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

We never even asked for HRT. In fact, I told husband that if it was offered we might want to decline it because if urology or endo wanted to do additional testing we don't want it to mess up any results. I am surprised when at the end he threw at us a prescription. He did finally acknowledge that the weight came after symptoms but then he just told us that it is only the weight now and it was probably some other reasons back then.

I can't believe he told husband that there was nothing that can be done nor tested for. I am thinking wait a second there could be zinc or magnesium deficiencies, seratonin and dopamine imbalances. How about the early signs of parkinsons he has and that his dad has.


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

Like the time I went to an OB-GYN visit with my wife. I tried to explain my wifes problem or at least have some say. but for some weird reason he only wanted to hear from her. Stupid Doctor!


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

onedge said:


> I so kept my mouth shut until my husband whispered to me I saw what he kept doing to you. I told him wait until you see what I do to him.


Why did you keep your mouth shut while you were in the room with the doctor and why did your husband whisper to you? It sounds like you're both fearful of the doctor or something. 




onedge said:


> I got in the hallway in front of nurses and patients and loudly fired his ass. I fired him 10 through the waiting room, the hallway and all the way to the elevator. I headed straight to member services and loudly fired his ass there too and filed a complaint.


What's with all this firing? Did the guy work for you or something? How many times can you fire someone?


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Onedge, very few people in ANY profession are considered to be in the top five percent of their graduating class. There are far more who managed to graduate by making average grades in the D+ to C- range.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I kept my mouth shut because I was second guessing myself. Yes husband was a little uncomfortable with having to put it all out there for doctor to hear. Yes, maybe a little fear was involved because he was very arrogant and condescending and telling us basically saying that our sex life was too unimportant to be bothered with.

I was firing alot because yes your doctor works for you and it felt good to have the last say after all the misinformation he was trying to feeding us.

Accipiter77-I was staying out of the conversation because I know that it was his appointment and doctors want to hear from their patients but in this case husband asked me to be there to help him because he wasn't certain how to ask questions. Plus, if the doctor had instructions or advice, we could ask him for any clarification then instead of later.


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## Surviving This Marriage (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm having issues with my primary as well. He's always been our doctor and has a private practice. He saw my dad, husband, kids, and was with me through my pregnancies and performed my H's Vasectomy. Then suddenly he's gone without a trace and all the nurses say is that he took time off and will be back in about a year. That's been months ago. Basically the nurses are running the place, and while I have plenty of respect for nurses, they're not doctors. There's one who always does the weight/temp/blood pressure, and even though I've made it blatantly clear that I don't want my weight share out loud, she makes it a point to say it out loud every time. The RN that is apparently the head honcho there saw my then one year old daughter for a high fever and vomiting ans prescribed antibiotics for an ear infection. One day and two emergency rooms later my daughter is dehydrated and hooked to an IV for six hours with influenza type B. Now she's increasing the dosage of my addict fathers Oct codone to once every four hours after another nurse reduced it to every twelve after seeing signs of dependency in him. (He's been on them for THREE YEARS) I'm ready to go off on her, and reading your post was inspiring. Good job for taking a stand with your husband and then for making sure everyone knew what a d*** your doctor was.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> First time my husband saw a doc about his ED the doc suggested he see a hooker. I kid you not!


Could you please PM his/her name so I can get an appointment?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

For such 'intricate' things, I'm afraid word of mouth or multiple consultations are the key, not one-shot-wonder-Docs... 

No good way around it... You need to build confidence and comfortable communications with him and you won't get that in one visit.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

Bravo, onedge :smthumbup:


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

You rock, baby:smthumbup:


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

lol good for you. How did the doc react to all of this?


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I don't know how he reacted. Probably with indifference like he showed me through most of the visit. The nurses all dropped their jaws. I had a bunch of questions too that I wanted advice on too but when he finally addressed that I had spoken his tone was so abrupt and hateful that I never got the chance. I just wanted the floor to open up and swallow me. 

When he kept repeating over and over to husband that there is not anything he can do to fix low T levels I knew those were lies. I also knew that husband would believe him and give up trying. There are books, all over the internet, professional handouts from doctors that say there are things that help. These were not difficult questions but more how much zinc should a man of his weight/age with low T should be taking or magnesium, estrogen producing foods to avoid, etc. Legitimate questions about things that are recommended by the medical field. 

T Levels are so important to a male physiology. Not just sex but the whole feel good and maintaining weight and energy. Things a 55 year old man needs to be preventative with his health.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

The only good thing that came out was the prescription. Those dang little pills were awesome. Hubby pretty excited and was running all over the house showing me his little friend. I just had a giggle because it was like a kid with a new toy. I just told him to go for it and have fun. He said he had sensitivity he hasn't had in ages and I warned him he better slow down before he hurts himself. Of course he didn't listen to me. He ended up having to take a RX pain killer later that night because he could hardly move. I think he will need a few days of healing before we bring those pills out again.


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

That is incredible to me. I would be all over that up here in Canada that stuff is not cool. I know you were looking forward to that appt. Good for you for sticking up for you guys. So the little pill is a little miracle is it? Are you goo with that?


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

There are very good reasons let the pt answer the questions and explain the problem vs another family member. I am guilty of holding up my hand as well but I usually follow up that gesture with something like; "please let him answer the questions for now but I will let you have all the time you need to tell your part when I finish the exam."


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Yeah, I was so looking forward to talking to a doctor and getting advice. I was watching husband's face when this man was talking and I knew that all the work we have done was going out the window.

I am definitely cool with the pills. We have struggled so many years with a sexless marriage because we would just give up for months at a time. He was having so much fun last night that I think this might be what he needs to get the anxiety out of his head. He has had such a long struggle with not only erections but orgasm too. He had both in about half the time it normally takes if he even has one at all. The pills won't give spontaneity but we have also learned to have fun without the end result too for those times we don't use them.

Stonewall- He treated me rudely the moment he saw me in the room and made it a point to do it. My husband who normally not paying half attention to what is going on around him picked up on it immediately.


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## Lordhavok (Mar 14, 2012)

I would follow up and see a urologist. He put me on t injections because of my chronic fatigue. And it helps out a good bit. Lots more energy, hitting the treadmill a few days a week now. See the urologist, he'll do some test and let you know what the deal is. Most of the time doctors just want to run you through like cattle. Like therapist also, they dont give a sh*t, your just case number 487. Find a new doctor, one that you can talk to and communicate with. They work for you, not the other way around.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

what as a$$ of a dr.

Just like any profession there are good one and bad ones. Start asking your friends about their drs. and change drs. and keep changing until you find one that your comfortable with.I sugest you pick an internist for your primary care dr. they are much more thouough! I change to one a few years back and can't believe the difference it made.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

We just wanted reassurance that everything was okay. This sudden drop in testosterone happened a long time ago but it never fixed itself. A 40 year old man who is doing fine doesn't just drop to 208 in just a matter of a few months and never comes back without a reason. We just didn't know that we should have been questioning it a long time ago.

I could have handled the rudeness and condescending attitude if the guy was willing to work with us. I wasn't going to take his actions and refusal together.


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

Stonewall said:


> There are very good reasons let the pt answer the questions and explain the problem vs another family member. I am guilty of holding up my hand as well but I usually follow up that gesture with something like; "please let him answer the questions for now but I will let you have all the time you need to tell your part when I finish the exam."


You're a doc? I find it interesting that problems d'amour have no boundaries.


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

onedge said:


> He was having so much fun last night that I think this might be what he needs to get the anxiety out of his head.


I totally know what you're talking about here. I almost feel like I have my h back. Ever since the other morning, he's been different, almost relaxed. That is not something I have seen in a long time. I haven't said anything, but I do need to clear up a few things with him before he comes home, and as much as I don't want or like to do it long distance, it may just be easier for both of us to ask and answer the hard questions.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> First time my husband saw a doc about his ED the doc suggested he see a hooker. I kid you not!
> 
> We found a new doc!
> 
> Looks like you'll be finding a new doc soon too!


Wow!



lenzi said:


> Why did you keep your mouth shut while you were in the room with the doctor and why did your husband whisper to you? It sounds like you're both fearful of the doctor or something.
> 
> What's with all this firing? Did the guy work for you or something? How many times can you fire someone?


Yes a doctor does work for you!



onedge said:


> We just wanted reassurance that everything was okay. This sudden drop in testosterone happened a long time ago but it never fixed itself. A 40 year old man who is doing fine doesn't just drop to 208 in just a matter of a few months and never comes back without a reason. We just didn't know that we should have been questioning it a long time ago.
> 
> I could have handled the rudeness and condescending attitude if the guy was willing to work with us. I wasn't going to take his actions and refusal together.


208 wow! Does he have moodswings and irritability as well as the low libido. The irritability was tough, I saw him trying so hard to be patient with the kids and barely doing it.

The doctor we visited for low T suggests the wife come in with her husband. He said they get a fuller picture of the problem. I could see a doc asking to let the patient answer first if the family member kept butting in but not when they are adding information. There was several places where I put in my perspective, for one my husband said he doesn't snore, I started laughing so the doctor asked me. 

Have you ever seen this site Testosterone Benefits: Why Testosterone is Important | The Art of Manliness it has links to the scientific data for everything he shares. On one of the links there is info to take in with you if your doctor won't listen.

I think this doc is in denial about his own low T levels.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I could have definitely understood the hand up if I was butting in or interrupting husband. When husband wasn't giving all the symptoms or minimizing something that I know was really bothering him then I said literally a one sentence comment twice after he finished talking. The main reason I went was because he has minimized in the past and I had read that sometimes they ask what does the wife think.

But this doc didn't even give an examination or ask about meds or supplements. Right off the bat it was nothing but lecture and how he isn't going to do anything. Everything my husband asked him the doc just replied your overweight. Never even truly tried to answer any questions when he actually wasn't cutting our questions off.

He even lectured my husband on smoking. I mean really pointing the finger at him and making him feel like crap. My husband tried to tell him he doesn't smoke or drink but this guy just continued the finger pointing. About this time last year we had really worked to get levels up. For three months, dieting and exercising 5 days a week. He lost 40 pounds but the symptoms still were there. They rechecked and he got it to 300 but gave up because he still felt like crap. He gained it back and didn't have sex for the next 5 months.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

That's so sad! Doctors like that just make me mad.

300 is still really low but much better, they say a lot of the symptoms pop up dropping below 350 or 400. Our local lab doesn't even call it low until 296. It's really sad cause lots of men are sent away with the doc saying your just getting old there's nothing wrong when in reality there is something fixable. 

I read the story of the little blue pill to my husband and we both laughed so hard.. Thanks for sharing!

If he ends up wanting to go the HRT route at some point bigger cities often have a doc who specializes in low T and the generally use the healthy levels and treat anything below 500 or 600. You probably already know this but thought I would put it out there just in case.

My husband has had pretty good success getting things moving but my big concern is he won't be able to hold them without the stringent program he's on.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

What a jerk! 

I had to drag my husband to a urologist who specializes in sexual medicine. That's what you need to look for! That's their speciality, they want you to be healthy sexually. 

The doctor listened to both of us and gave him a prescription for T. He went from 300 to 800 and things are really good now. Don't give up!


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## NewHubs (Dec 23, 2012)

This could make for a potential SNL skit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

The new lab isn't back yet so we will see. When we made the complaint, I asked the lady if they advocate self medicating because that is what will happen if they aren't willing to work with us. Husband also told them that he can go anywhere and get what he needs even if it is out of our own pocket but they will be the ones to foot the bill for any side effects or problems from us self treating or using a different doctor.

Meantime we are continuing to do what we can on our end. Weight and exercise.


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## Code-Welder (Dec 17, 2012)

onedge said:


> This doctor pissed me off. I stayed to myself and let my husband talk. This doctor came in and introduced himself to husband with a handshake and never acknowledged I was sitting there.


Pissed you off, why were you there in the first place? Is your H incapable of seeing a Doctor on his own? There are so many men and women who think low T is the problem and most times it is not the answer to just get a shot or go onto gels.

Do you make his phone calls for him as well? If the Doctor knows from prior tests that low T was a issue he looks at weight, age, activity levels many more factors that need to be addressed before you go on HRT.

I have little doubt the Doctor cared little about what you had to say, he is you HUSBAND'S doctor not yours. See a Endocrinologist and a Urologist and find out why you H is putting on weight and has lower levels of testosterone. I think you wanted/expect the Doc to just put hubby on HRT and that is not going to happen unless he is really in need of it.

So many men are going on this stuff with little understanding of the long term implications of the effects of the drugs. It is easy for a Doc to put hubby on the drugs and not address his real problem and what is causing him to have lower levels. If you want to be some help, make a list of things you are concerned about and have hubby take that with him next Doctor trip. You need to stay home or in the waiting room.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I don't think you read correctly. You made assumptions without reading this thread. We were NOT there for HRT and never asked for HRT. We WERE there for a referral to urology or endo. We WERE there to consult about his diet, vitamins, minerals, and to check if any of his meds can cause this. To accuse me of expecting/wanting HRT is wrong because it was I that read up on side effects and told DH that he might not want to go that route. It was I that told him to see a doctor so we can rule out anything else causing this. It was also I that offered to go with him if he wanted me too.

The doctor made an assumption the same as you. He refused to work with us for a referral or even additional lab work or to even look at meds. We tried to tell him why we were there but he refused to listen. Told him lose weight and live with it. 

I am glad I was there because I don't think I would have believed this man's professionalism without seeing it first hand. I was there to support husband on something that he was uncomfortable with and he requested me there to help him remember the advice he is given. I told husband that anytime he wanted me to leave the room to just give the signal and he would have no problem telling me. This was no big deal to either one of us...so to each their own. Yeah, this doctor didn't want me there or to hear from me but he also didn't want to hear from my husband. If this kind of doctor is okay with you then to each their own also. My husband and I do not disrespect each other nor put up with someone else doing it in each other's company.

To also clarify, this man was NOT my husband's doctor. His doctor wasn't going to be available for a few weeks so the consult doctor over the phone told us we need to see an urologist and set this appointment for the referral and advice so things can get moving quickly. I guess the doctor doesn't read either.

As far as your quote use. I wasn't pissed off at not being acknowledged but pissed of at his dismissive attitude towards both of us that started the moment he walked in. I was also pissed that he gave dh false information. He flat out told husband that there are no further tests, there can't be any underlying conditions, that a urologist has nothing to do with ED/low T, and there are no other treatments available. Are you saying that wouldn't piss you off? He did give husband one piece of advice. He told husband to do running and squats. When husband told him he was advised to not do those kind of activities due to his hip being bone on bone with no cushion in the joint from a previous dirtbike injury. The doctor was like whatever.


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## Code-Welder (Dec 17, 2012)

onedge said:


> I don't think you read correctly. You made assumptions without reading this thread.


Sorry to be the *rick but with you in the room I have little doubt that you influenced the Doctors attitude. All of the things you say keep coming back to WE. It is his problem to deal with not a WE problem. Doctors are being bombarded by men who just want to feel young again and the media blitz for TRT is making men think it is the cure all. My very close friend who is a old time Doctor thinks about 80% of the men put on TRT could have improved levels by changing life style and diet.

Let me ask you, would you feel it proper if your H was to be in the room for your OB/GYN appointments? Can you picture of a LD wife's H in the room asking her Doctor questions. 

If you have questions about him why not make an appointment for yourself for a Doc consultation? Leave him at home. Main point is he should be taking control of this himself, if you want questions answered put them in a letter he takes with him.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

Many couples go to each other's doctor appointments. I don't know why you are so rude and up in arms about it. 
I don't think I would feel comfortable with my husband being there for a pelvic but if I were having hormone issues I would want him to be there for a consultation. 
If he asked her to be there, that's his choice.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Sorry you have an issue with we because the symptoms are a we problem. I don't know why you feel that men should suffer alone and wives shouldn't be part of the team to help him feel better. BYW, a team consists of we. When I have had past medical issues it was a we effort. If he had high cholesterol are you saying I shouldn't be there to consult with the doctor on dietary changes because after all it is his body. Wouldn't that be a we? I wonder how many husbands wouldn't want their wives on board and working with them? Or maybe they would prefer it if their wives said it is your problem not mine. Also if he had questions and I had questions it is easier to type we had questions. You are being picky.

I wouldn't tell him to go to marriage counseling by himself same I wouldn't tell him your body, you deal with it, leave me out of it. If I was having the LD problem and we both felt a doctor consult might be needed then yes I would take him with me. If I didn't want him to go then I would tell him and he would respect my wishes and vice versa. Maybe me being there set the tone for that doc but that is the doc's problem. 

*After all, once again, we were not there for HRT but a consult for life style changes and a referral, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up.* If a doctor feels like he couldn't have an open conversation with me there then all he had to say was I need to ask your husband some pretty personal questions and he might not want to say it in front of you.

Once again, you are making assumptions of why I was there. I do not force myself on my husband nor control what he wants to do. He simply asked and I was happy to do it for him. He even asked prior to the appointment if his wife can be there and was told if you are comfortable then go for it.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Also, I am happy my husband is talking to me about these issues and trust me to be part of his "we" team. I get the jest that you think I am being controlling about this and trying to fix him and yes I am a bit. Both of us being passive isn't going to go anywhere. He would be the first to tell you that I am the least controlling person in his life but I have to be in this situation. 

I want him to be happy and don't expect him to suffer in silence. Once the ball gets rolling, I believe in all my heart that he will take the lead. But for now it is going to be me to push for eating properly and exercising and getting him to the proper professionals. By the way, as part of the "we" I am losing weight and changing lifestyles right beside him. I am not pointing my finger and saying do what I say and not as I do.

I think you have this expectation that all LD spouses want to be left alone and not bothered. Well from my experience as a past LD spouse, that isn't always the case. I wanted my husband on board and working with me. I could have easily left it alone because I was comfortable not wanting sex. I knew he wasn't doing it for his own personal satisfaction because he was correct that the other symptoms that went with it wasn't making me happy. I wouldn't have done it on my own, so "we" went to a doctor and "we" both talked to her and "we" figured out is the birth control I was on and "we" decided to switch to something different. It was my body but it was a "we" decision and effort. I am glad he took a stand and made it a "we" and not just tell me you got a problem ... go see a doctor and fix it. 

My husband is actually grateful that I went with him because in the very end if nothing changes then we both know we have done everything we can.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

onedge said:


> Also, I am happy my husband is talking to me about these issues and trust me to be part of his "we" team. I get the jest that you think I am being controlling about this and trying to fix him and yes I am a bit. Both of us being passive isn't going to go anywhere. He would be the first to tell you that I am the least controlling person in his life but I have to be in this situation.
> 
> I want him to be happy and don't expect him to suffer in silence. Once the ball gets rolling, I believe in all my heart that he will take the lead. But for now it is going to be me to push for eating properly and exercising and getting him to the proper professionals. By the way, as part of the "we" I am losing weight and changing lifestyles right beside him. I am not pointing my finger and saying do what I say and as I do.
> 
> ...


Don't try to justify yourself to a lady hater.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Thank you oldfaithful. I guess that is what I am doing. If this matters in any way, this doctor was middle eastern. I have plenty of middle eastern doctors that were great but I guess this one had the hangup.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

I am no doctor... Doctors have only a very few hours of training on hormones in medical school. My own doctor admitted to incompetence in this area. I found a good doctor who understands hormones.

From what I can gather, you hubby needs 4 days a week at the gym aerobics and weight lifting. A male hormone blood test including total and free testosterone, bound test, DHT, and estradiol. Free should be in the range of 20-25, Total minimally 550 and preferably 800. Estradiol 20-30. This is based on a ton of research I did. Please do your own and talk with a knowledgeable doctor.

If he is a candidate for HRT, he needs to get blood tests frequently to balance these hormones. Every 3 months the first year and less as balance is improved. If he's a bit overweight, there is a propensity that the testosterone will convert to estradiol. Simple things to do to balance them. Diet and exercise is soooo important too. He'll look better and feel better. Then, watch out!!

Research, find a doctor who gets it. Again, just some experience in this area. Do your own research.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Thank you so much for your advice. The doctor wasn't even going to allow a T level test because one was done a year ago. He said that there was no reason to have it done again. In fact, he made a remark about husband having regular check up labs done every year was too much and should only be done every couple years. I went ahead and asked about additional labs that are associated with ED/low T. He sneered at me and actually raised his voice "what kind of labs do you think we should do!" I said there are other tests and I mentioned dht and estradiol. He cut me off and said those tests don't have any bearing on our problem. I stopped talking because he did give in at that point on the testosterone ones. So I told myself to keep my cool and waited for him to put in the order and send the prescription to the pharmacy. I walked out into that hallway and couldn't keep it quiet anymore.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

onedge said:


> Thank you so much for your advice. The doctor wasn't even going to allow a T level test because one was done a year ago. He said that there was no reason to have it done again. In fact, he made a remark about husband having regular check up labs done every year was too much and should only be done every couple years. I went ahead and asked about additional labs that are associated with ED/low T. He sneered at me and actually raised his voice "what kind of labs do you think we should do!" I said there are other tests and I mentioned dht and estradiol. He cut me off and said those tests don't have any bearing on our problem. I stopped talking because he did give in at that point on the testosterone ones. So I told myself to keep my cool and waited for him to put in the order and send the prescription to the pharmacy. I walked out into that hallway and couldn't keep it quiet anymore.


Go see another doctor. If he does not want to pay attention to your needs and test those listed hormones, perhaps he missed that half day at medical school. Your doc will certainly not know how to treat it or may over treat (if it is "low T").

These:
- Free Testosterone
- Total Testosterone
- Bound Testosterone
- DHT
- Estradiol

Are all necessary. - along with PSA. Don't waste your time with this Doctor. Find another. Its your hubbies health and well being. A great book for ladies is "What your doctor MAY NOT tell you about premenopause Balance your hormones and your life from 30 to 50" by John Lee MD and Jesse Hanley MD Also important information on Natural Progesterone.

Ladies and Guys can and should take action on LD and other issues due to Hormone imbalance. Low Testosterone is merely hormonal imbalance that can lead to or be associated with a huge number of other issues from heart disease, diabetes and many more... See a doctor who understands these things. Don't struggle with a doctor without a clue.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Turns out the doctor ordered total testosterone only. It is 210 with lab's normal range starting at 200. This test was taken at 8 AM when levels should have been toward it's highest. Cholesterol good, fasting glucose a bit high from range, thyroid within range.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

onedge said:


> Turns out the doctor ordered total testosterone only. It is 210 with lab's normal range starting at 200. This test was taken at 8 AM when levels should have been toward it's highest. Cholesterol good, fasting glucose a bit high from range, thyroid within range.


YIKES! 550 is my researched minimum. Glucose needs to be around 80 as a goal. Blood ranges -- keep in mind the new healthcare law will further widen blood level ranges so more and more people will not be treated, saving money in trade for lives and health of people. 

Find a doctor, get a full male blood panel and get him healthy.

My goal is to live longer, not die longer. I'll PM you a very reliable website chock for of research by doctors who understand these things. Get your husband involved in reading. He needs to be interested. You can't do it yourself.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

Oldfaithful said:


> Don't try to justify yourself to a lady hater.


You won't convince him but you might encourage others that it's okay to make it a we thing. 

Sounds like the lady hater and the doctor are both hiding from their ED and low T, trying to pretend it's normal.



onedge said:


> Turns out the doctor ordered total testosterone only. It is 210 with lab's normal range starting at 200. This test was taken at 8 AM when levels should have been toward it's highest. Cholesterol good, fasting glucose a bit high from range, thyroid within range.


Your lab's normal range is 200? Wow!


I think it's great when a guy talks to his wife about low T or ED. When there is talking it invokes care and compassion in the wife instead of a feeling of rejection.


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## Code-Welder (Dec 17, 2012)

onedge said:


> I am happy my husband is talking to me about these issues and trust me to be part of his "we" team.
> 
> My husband is actually grateful that I went with him because in the very end if nothing changes then we both know we have done everything we can.


If you husband is happy with you then that is all that really matters. Please accept my apology for suggesting ideas that are contrary to how you feel you need to address your husband's medical issues.

For the record I do not think this was a good Doctor, but I hope you find one that can resolve the issue.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Code wielder - Thanks for the apology and we are so not giving up. I told husband once there is a good professional in place that knows what they are doing then I will step back and just focus on diet/exercise to help both of us. There is an appointment set up in a couple weeks through the VA hospital plus his own physician will be back next week. I do agree those ads hurt men who are really suffering to be taken seriously. 

Qtip-*Thanks for the site you mentioned for DH to read*. He really doesn't go on computer much to do the research himself. As far as he concerned the only fun thing to do on the online is fantasy sports and cars. I am not certain what more on our end. He doesn't smoke or drink, no drugs, sleeps well, stress is regular normal stuff when you have teens, he is one of the lucky ones who actually loves his job. Currently, working on weight/exercise.

I thought I would add why I was at this appointment. He has been in the 208-215 range for probably 15 years. Long before the weight became an issue, something happened. This was the 4th attempt to get medical help. The first one was about 14 years ago and he just wanted to do injections. Our insurance carrier changed so he only did like 2 shots. The didn't make him feel better. He has tried 2 more times with doctors for help and they dismissed the symptoms and levels. He was very hesitant about a 4th attempt. Why I was there and in the room this time. He wanted me to personally hear why they were ignoring this. 

Last year, after months of hard work on diet and exercise, the level finally budged to very low 300 but the symptoms were so strong that I couldn't keep him motivated. Then level dropped immediately back down and he wasn't interested in sex or pretty much anything else for 5 months. This is why I need to take the driver's seat this time around because this man is very soon going to have some major health issues and has given up.

There has been somewhat recent reputable studies that correlates sudden drops in T levels and parkinsons, This has to do with dopamine which I have read in many places affects T levels. His dad was diagnosed in his early 60's with Parkinson. My husband is only a few years away from 60. Plus, a couple other early symptoms have shown up in the last 8 years. OMG, that doctor did raise his voice at me when I said his dad has parkinsons and told me that parkinsons has nothing to do with testosterone. I never even made it to the the symptoms.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Well, don't automatically assume symptoms are Parkinson's related. Could be misdiagnosed P and only be a magnesium deficiency. Easily corrected.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> First time my husband saw a doc about his ED the doc suggested he see a hooker. I kid you not!
> 
> We found a new doc!
> 
> Looks like you'll be finding a new doc soon too!


Did he write a prescription for that? :rofl:

Honestly, I would've pointed to my wife and said, do you really think there's anyone hotter than her? 

I get pretty short tempered with "professionals" who, since they have a degree, think they're smarter, better, or more clever than you. 

What a stupid thing for a medical professional to say.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

the2ofus said:


> That's so sad! Doctors like that just make me mad.
> 
> 300 is still really low but much better, they say a lot of the symptoms pop up dropping below 350 or 400. Our local lab doesn't even call it low until 296. It's really sad cause lots of men are sent away with the doc saying your just getting old there's nothing wrong when in reality there is something fixable.
> 
> ...


For a 55 year old man, normal levels are 300-700 according to the lab my doctor uses. I would think treating 500-600 might be overkill.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's called the physician "god complex". But you can challenge it.

I was appalled that wisdom teeth are extracted routinely in the USA for no reason. I had long arguments with my dentist about it and finally got her to do fillings on one of them. I'm sure she got a paper published in the Journal of the ADA or something because I took two of them out finally at 52 and still have the other two...

Educate yourself and challenge them. The good ones like it.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

doubletrouble said:


> For a 55 year old man, normal levels are 300-700 according to the lab my doctor uses. I would think treating 500-600 might be overkill.


When you get above 550, heart disease issues taper off significantly. Those studies about T in the news recently. --- if you actually bother to read their research, you'll find it fundamentally flawed. In fact all patients studies had test levels well below 550. Above 550, seems they had no one with problems... Go figure.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Husband has 6 obvious signs of 10 listed and 2 of the 4 major ones for parkinsons. BUT...each one on it's own could easily be something else. So it is a big iffy. His dad does fine and lives a pretty quality life. His doctor told him a couple years ago that he can no longer use a chainsaw and he was pretty grumpy about that. We just told him maybe 80 year old men shouldn't be using chainsaws to begin with. If he keeps running over tree stumps with the ride around, he may lose that too.


I might have had a good laugh if doctor suggested a hooker to husband. I would have been a hoot watching him fumble around for a response. In real life, I don't know if DH would notice a hooker was even walking past him. One night, I told him turn on some porn or something and he said nah would rather watch the game.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Q tip said:


> When you get above 550, heart disease issues taper off significantly. Those studies about T in the news recently. --- if you actually bother to read their research, you'll find it fundamentally flawed. In fact all patients studies had test levels well below 550. Above 550, seems they had no one with problems... Go figure.


Yeah my W saw those ads on TV about the dangers of T therapy and I asked my doc about it. He mentioned, if I'm repeating it correctly, that those studies were largely for non-therapeutic use of testosterone (anabolic steroid, sound familiar?). Guys who didn't need it were boosting their T levels so they could lift weights and look cool. 

You can't fix stewpid.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

onedge said:


> Husband has 6 obvious signs of 10 listed and 2 of the 4 major ones for parkinsons. BUT...each one on it's own could easily be something else. So it is a big iffy. His dad does fine and lives a pretty quality life. His doctor told him a couple years ago that he can no longer use a chainsaw and he was pretty grumpy about that. We just told him maybe 80 year old men shouldn't be using chainsaws to begin with. If he keeps running over tree stumps with the ride around, he may lose that too.
> 
> 
> I might have had a good laugh if doctor suggested a hooker to husband. I would have been a hoot watching him fumble around for a response. In real life, I don't know if DH would notice a hooker was even walking past him. One night, I told him turn on some porn or something and he said nah would rather watch the game.


Don't know if I get banned posting that website or not. They have a lot of info there on Parkinson's (PD) too. There are several products that slow it's progression. Exercise, again, is huge in helping PD too. One doctor out of New York I think, cured one mans PD. Natural cures and heavy metal detox IV. He took his evidence in to the government. They said he did not cure it as PD is not curable and force a re-diagnosis.... Well, the patient is happy. I found that info on the site too. In the hundreds of research references they have.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

intheory said:


> Doctors, overall, are the pits. I avoid them whenever possible


Yeah who needs doctors anyway.

:scratchhead:


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

doubletrouble said:


> For a 55 year old man, normal levels are 300-700 according to the lab my doctor uses. I would think treating 500-600 might be overkill.


I mentioned below 500, but depending on symptoms.

There are researchers who have tested healthy men in multiple age groups and the numbers look much higher. For his age they have 562 as the average and for 85-100 it's 376. 



doubletrouble said:


> Yeah my W saw those ads on TV about the dangers of T therapy and I asked my doc about it. He mentioned, if I'm repeating it correctly, that those studies were largely for non-therapeutic use of testosterone (anabolic steroid, sound familiar?). Guys who didn't need it were boosting their T levels so they could lift weights and look cool.
> 
> You can't fix stewpid.


For those buying it without a prescription who knows what they are even getting, is it really what it is said to be. And often they are using multiple things and over using all of them.

But then again looking cool is awfully important you know!


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

I agree with researchers who recommend youthful levels near or at 800. Aren't the youthful healthier?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Anecdote. Lost 30 lbs and drive rocketed upward.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

Update!!

Went to the second opinion doctor today. She can't give a referral to urology unless all other options at primary care level have been unsuccessful. Okay I can definitely live with that explanation. She is having DH email all testing he has done in the last year so she can determine which additional ones in regards to hormone levels still need to be done. Then with all those test results she will give us therapeutic recommendations in regard to zinc/magnesium and any other supplements that might help. Also, if we need to start an estrogen blocker or any other med that could help him naturally raise T levels. She also referred him to a weight loss supervisor and nutritionist. 

I didn't go this time because I didn't want another a-hole incident and she told him that he should have brought me because men are more successful when their wives are on board. She was all the things we expected from the other doctor. We are definitely much more happier this time around.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

onedge said:


> Update!!
> 
> Went to the second opinion doctor today. She can't give a referral to urology unless all other options at primary care level have been unsuccessful. Okay I can definitely live with that explanation. She is having DH email all testing he has done in the last year so she can determine which additional ones in regards to hormone levels still need to be done. Then with all those test results she will give us therapeutic recommendations in regard to zinc/magnesium and any other supplements that might help. Also, if we need to start an estrogen blocker or any other med that could help him naturally raise T levels. She also referred him to a weight loss supervisor and nutritionist.
> 
> I didn't go this time because I didn't want another a-hole incident and she told him that he should have brought me because men are more successful when their wives are on board. She was all the things we expected from the other doctor. We are definitely much more happier this time around.


sounds promising...


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

Good to hear!

Nettle Root is suppose to work really good as an estrogen blocker. Saw Palmetto is supposed to work to butmy husband feels better on Nettle Root. His estrogen levels weren't high, probably cause he doesn't have the body fat to support that.


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## Sleepsalonefl (Apr 28, 2014)

onedge said:


> Update!!
> 
> Went to the second opinion doctor today. She can't give a referral to urology unless all other options at primary care level have been unsuccessful. Okay I can definitely live with that explanation. She is having DH email all testing he has done in the last year so she can determine which additional ones in regards to hormone levels still need to be done. Then with all those test results she will give us therapeutic recommendations in regard to zinc/magnesium and any other supplements that might help. Also, if we need to start an estrogen blocker or any other med that could help him naturally raise T levels. She also referred him to a weight loss supervisor and nutritionist.


Readers digest version of the below:
- Go to an HRT knowledgeable/friendly doctor, get your DH's levels checked, get on T self administered shots (as it is likely low).
- In additional, Terrestris Tribulus is a natural herb supplement with no side effects that works in the body to make more testosterone bio-available. 
-Take L-Arginine (amino acid) instead of Viagra-- it is just as effective, cheaper, natural, impossible to overdose, no ill side effects, and will have the added bonus of improving your cardio-vascular health and blood pressure.

Onedge:
I am a mid-40s male having low testosterone (recently measured around 200ng/dl which is equivalent to a healthy, normal 85 year old man). As an aside, my sex drive is always high and (like you need to know this) I get morning wood, night wood, day wood and sleeping wood. All the time. So T levels alone are not the only issue to look at BUT they are critically important. I am highly educated and very well read, but not a doctor. So while I have a lot of experience and knowledge with diet and supplements and some knowledge of HRT, don't look at this as medical advice. But I hope this helps you and I want you do do you own (corroborating) research.

I should point out I regularly work out (read: do very HITT via martial arts), and I am in good shape. I would like to loose 10lbs of body fat b/c if I did I would be absolutely ripped, but I am in no means out of shape. Most folks I run into guess my age to be mid-30s at most. I say all that to say, even so, my T levels are way too low. 

Your husband could be facing other health issues, but you definitely need to check his T levels. Find a doctor who is HRT friendly AND knowledgeable. This is step is the most important. There is a lot of misinformation about HRT and its supposed risks, but the bottom line fact is that T is critical to male health, weight, libido, sexual performance, cardiovascular health, bone health, mental health, mental clarity and anti-fatigue, etc. DO NOT accept the advice of a doctor who measures the levels using conventional "ranges" and pronounce "you're fine". For example, "normal" ranges run from 250-700ng/dl. BUT those ranges are NOT derived from optimal for DH's age/health. Rather these ranges are merely a bell curve from measuring many many patients over the past 30 years. So it includes every measurement from every person, healthy or otherwise, young or old, from your 30 year old perfectly healthy in shape man, to your typeII diabetic octogenarian-- hardly a good reference range for say me who is mid-40s worksout, eats well, etc. Here is a good short reference to T levels in men and what's normal: Testosterone: What's a Normal Testosterone Level in Men? | The Art of Manliness

DO NOT fill that Viagra prescription! If you do so, you are not punishing the doctor you fired, you are rewarding him! The reason he does not want to discuss HRT and instead wants to prescribe Viagra to "solve" your problem is summed up in one simple word: Greed. (I prefer "Love of money"). Let me be very clear on this: no matter who tells you otherwise, doctors get kickbacks, bonuses, commissions, (whatever you want to call it) for prescribing pharmaceuticals. The more they prescribe, the more they make. My wife has had some hormone issues (measurable by tests, clear in symptoms, and are likely a thyroid/pituitary/ovarian related, etc) and yet nearly every doctor wanted to give her anti-depressants. Over the past 5 years, at least 3 different doctors have tried to prescribe her 7 different anti-depressants (she didn't take them). Her issues (including fatigue, depression, joint paint, etc etc) are NOT caused by depression. She may feel depressed after dealing with painful symptoms for years, but that is the effect, not the cause. I know it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but the doctors make big bucks handing out these anti-depressants like candy (and most if not all have horrendous side effects no one really wants to talk about).

Have you ever noticed Viagra never resolves the root of the erectile dysfunction problem? Take, you get wood. Don't take it, don't get wood. Ergo, you need to take it for the rest of your life if you want to get wood. Ergo, you are now a life-time pharmaceutical "addict". And the doctor who is "helping" you? He's getting rich by prescribing this to many many people while not addressing the root issues. Also it has side effects-- like potential for heart attack. Or the persistent erection that won't go away and if not medically addressed (in an emergency room no less) could make your husband impotent for life. But for run, let's assume for argument's sake that Viagra did "solve" the problem. Even so, do you really think that your husband's ED issue is caused by having low blood serum levels of viagra? 

So why do many doctors not want to discuss HRT? Because HRT is cheap, effective and solves the root issue. Also many GPs don't get specific training in it and are not familiar with it. Hence, no lifetime pharmaceutical addict. No bonuses for cheap testosterone that any number of labs manufacture (i.e. not patented). No multiple doctor visits (with T supplements, once you get the levels right, you need a blood test maybe every 6 months). Even without insurance a 90 day supply is maybe $95. That's a deal when you think about it. And it can be easily self-administered (I hate needles but got used to it. after the first several times, it's like brushing your teeth). So yes, you would end up taking T indefinitely but the difference compared to pharmaceutical addiction is T is usually a bio-identical hormone that your body normally produces (but is lacking) and it is not patented petroleum-derived, toxic to your body, expensive, patented substance. 

So for diet advice: the Standard American Diet (SAD) is killing you and everyone else in this country who follows it. Ever wonder why so many young kids are getting juvenile diabetes at epidemic rates? Diet. Period. This format doesn't let me go into this in great detail, but basically if it comes in a bag, box or a can-- don't eat it. Buy it fresh, cook it yourself and avoid EVERY form of processed food, white flour and sugar (also investigate potential wheat intolerance-- its much more common than people think), I highly recommend the book "The Maker's Diet" as an excellent starting point-- even if you think your diet is awesome, read this book if you haven't already. 

Next for supplements: Terrestris Tribulus is an all-natural supplement that has been proven to boosts available testosterone in the body (it blocks proteins that bind to free testosterone, therefore making more T available for your body to use) This works, and its not expensive, and has typically no ill side effects. Speaking of supplements: DO NOT rely on webmd or any other website that is any way affiliated with the medical establishment for advice on supplements (and by supplements, I am including vitamins here). These websites are ALL funded in one way or another by the major pharmaceutical companies and therefore cannot be trusted to give you accurate, reliable info on supplements. In fact it is well known among the natural supplement community (homeopaths, supplement makers, even doctors who are knowledgeable on the subject, etc) that drug companies regularly fund flawed studies to purposely "prove" that supplements are either ineffective, or dangerous. (They will use the wrong form of the supplement, typically the artificial produced form, the incorrect dose, and a statistically meaningless sample group with no contorls). Why, you ask? Love of money. Supplements work, they are unpatentable, they are effective, very few have any side effects, and they help your body heal itself, as they work and address the root cause. Remember this key fact: Healthy people do not need drug companies. Read "Orthomolecular Medicine for Everyone" for an excellent primer on supplements. Remember, the big pharma makes their money by treating symptoms for the life of the patient, NOT by solving the root issue (curing = no lifetime pharmaceutical addict. treating symptoms = lifetime annuity for the drug company). 

Also, anyone who works out should be familiar with protein powders and their constituents which are amino acids. Amino Acids are the building blocks of protein and absolutely critical for health. There are two kinds: essential, and non-essentials. Both are necessary for your body. Essential simply means the body cannot manufacture it (non-essentials it can), and therefore you need to acquire from external sources. Anyhow, the issue is these substances are cheap, effective, and you guessed it-- unpatentable. Body builders have known for ages that taking the amino L-Arginine before lifting gives better, more powerful lifts (energy) AND gives them a much better "pump" (that pumped up, taught, filled muscle effect you get after hard lifting). This is because arginine is a natural vasodilator. It functions in the body by causing your endothelial cells that line your arteries to produce NO (Nitrous Oxide), which in turn causes the walls of the arteries to 'relax' or expand. More blood = more energy = more blood volume in muscles = greater pump. What this means to you is that it works on ALL the arteries in the body, meaning it will lower your blood pressure AND provide the same arterial dialation effect as Viagra WITHOUT ANY SIDE EFFECTS. Studies have proven arginine is as effective, and more effective in some cases than both Viagra for erectile dysfunction AND beta blockers or other blood pressure meds. Why don't doctors advise patients to use this substance? Love of money and/or ignorance. It is natural and therefore non-patentable. A 1lb jar of powdered NOW brand L-Arginine from iHerb will cost you about $26. Even taken 3X/day this should last your you at least 3-4 months, if not 6 or more. Ready "NO More Heart Disease: How Nitric Oxide Can Prevent--Even Reverse--Heart Disease and Strokes" for an excellent primer on Arginine. (FYI, your body products nitric oxide "NO" from arginine. NO is the same substance in granny's nitro angina pills). 

After fixing your diet, incorporate the supplements, get your husband on a work out program. I am a big advocate for jiujitsu-- it is practical self defense, increases confidence and hands-down is an awesome full-body HITT workout. Or kickboxing. However, if he is not ready for that-- get him to lift weights. Free weight lifting and building muscle is one of the best all around health improving activities you can do for your body at any age.

Having said all the above, I want to say this: not all doctors are in league with the way the medical establishment and drug companies do business/approach healthcare, and some refuse to play the hand out anti-depressants and viagra like candy game. There are good doctors out there who truly care about patients, and are very knowledgeable about diet, supplements and HRT. However they are definitely in the minority and hard to find (most doctors receive only a few hours of training in diet, if any and absolutely zero on vitamins and mineral supplements). This means you need to search long and hard to find a doctor who has educated himself / herself on these critical issues. Do not be surprised if you attempt to discuss any of the above with your next GP and you get poo-pooed immediately. A good doctor would at least admit, 'I'm not familiar with that stuff'-- and maybe you have a starting point for discussion if the doctor is open-minded. A great doctor will know what you are talking about. For some reason, I have had the best luck with foreign educated doctors (typically European, or eastern European) I'm not sure why this is, but I suspect its becuase the American medical established is very focused around treating symptoms (not addressing root causes) with artificial pharmaceuticals because much of the medial curriculum, textbooks and schools themselves are in one way or another influenced by big-pharma monies.

I hope this stuff helps someone!! 

PS I have an extensive library of books on health, diet, exercise, vitamins, supplements, etc. Feel free to email me if you want a more extensive suggested reading list.


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## Sleepsalonefl (Apr 28, 2014)

onedge said:


> Update!!
> 
> Went to the second opinion doctor today. She can't give a referral to urology unless all other options at primary care level have been unsuccessful. Okay I can definitely live with that explanation. She is having DH email all testing he has done in the last year so she can determine which additional ones in regards to hormone levels still need to be done. Then with all those test results she will give us therapeutic recommendations in regard to zinc/magnesium and any other supplements that might help. Also, if we need to start an estrogen blocker or any other med that could help him naturally raise T levels. She also referred him to a weight loss supervisor and nutritionist.


Readers digest version of the below:
- Go to an HRT knowledgeable/friendly doctor, get your DH's levels checked, get on T self administered shots (as it is likely low).
- In additional, Terrestris Tribulus is a natural herb supplement with no side effects that works in the body to make more testosterone bio-available. 
-Take L-Arginine (amino acid) instead of Viagra-- it is just as effective, cheaper, natural, impossible to overdose, no ill side effects, and will have the added bonus of improving your cardio-vascular health and blood pressure.

Onedge:
I am a mid-40s male having low testosterone (recently measured around 200ng/dl which is equivalent to a healthy, normal 85 year old man). As an aside, my sex drive is always high and (like you need to know this) I get morning wood, night wood, day wood and sleeping wood. All the time. So T levels alone are not the only issue to look at BUT they are critically important. I am highly educated and very well read, but not a doctor. So while I have a lot of experience and knowledge with diet and supplements and some knowledge of HRT, don't look at this as medical advice. But I hope this helps you and I want you do do you own (corroborating) research.

I should point out I regularly work out (read: do very HITT via martial arts), and I am in good shape. I would like to loose 10lbs of body fat b/c if I did I would be absolutely ripped, but I am in no means out of shape. Most folks I run into guess my age to be mid-30s at most. I say all that to say, even so, my T levels are way too low. 

Your husband could be facing other health issues, but you definitely need to check his T levels. Find a doctor who is HRT friendly AND knowledgeable. This is step is the most important. There is a lot of misinformation about HRT and its supposed risks, but the bottom line fact is that T is critical to male health, weight, libido, sexual performance, cardiovascular health, bone health, mental health, mental clarity and anti-fatigue, etc. DO NOT accept the advice of a doctor who measures the levels using conventional "ranges" and pronounce "you're fine". For example, "normal" ranges run from 250-700ng/dl. BUT those ranges are NOT derived from optimal for DH's age/health. Rather these ranges are merely a bell curve from measuring many many patients over the past 30 years. So it includes every measurement from every person, healthy or otherwise, young or old, from your 30 year old perfectly healthy in shape man, to your typeII diabetic octogenarian-- hardly a good reference range for say me who is mid-40s worksout, eats well, etc. Here is a good short reference to T levels in men and what's normal: Testosterone: What's a Normal Testosterone Level in Men? | The Art of Manliness

DO NOT fill that Viagra prescription! If you do so, you are not punishing the doctor you fired, you are rewarding him! The reason he does not want to discuss HRT and instead wants to prescribe Viagra to "solve" your problem is summed up in one simple word: Greed. (I prefer "Love of money"). Let me be very clear on this: no matter who tells you otherwise, doctors get kickbacks, bonuses, commissions, (whatever you want to call it) for prescribing pharmaceuticals. The more they prescribe, the more they make. My wife has had some hormone issues (measurable by tests, clear in symptoms, and are likely a thyroid/pituitary/ovarian related, etc) and yet nearly every doctor wanted to give her anti-depressants. Over the past 5 years, at least 3 different doctors have tried to prescribe her 7 different anti-depressants (she didn't take them). Her issues (including fatigue, depression, joint paint, etc etc) are NOT caused by depression. She may feel depressed after dealing with painful symptoms for years, but that is the effect, not the ause. I know it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but the doctors make big bucks handing out these anti-depressants like candy (and most if not all have horrendous side effects no one really wants to talk about).

Have you ever noticed Viagra never resolves the root of the erectile dysfunction problem? Take, you get wood. Don't take it, don't get wood. Ergo, you need to take it for the rest of your life if you want to get wood. Ergo, you are now a life-time pharmaceutical "addict". And the doctor who is "helping" you? He's getting rich by prescribing this to many many people while not addressing the root issues. Also it has side effects-- like potential for heart attack. Or the persistent erection that won't go away and if not medically addressed (in an emergency room no less) could make your husband impotent for life.

So why do many doctors not want to discuss HRT? Because HRT is cheap, effective and solves the root issue. Also many GPs don't get specific training in it and are not familiar with it. Hence, no lifetime pharmaceutical addict. No bonuses for cheap testosterone that any number of labs manufacture (i.e. not patented). No multiple doctor visits (with T supplements, once you get the levels right, you need a blood test maybe every 6 months). Even without insurance a 90 day supply is maybe $95. That's a deal when you think about it. And it can be easily self-administered (I hate needles but got used to it. after the first several times, it's like brushing your teeth). So yes, you would end up taking T indefinitely but the difference compared to pharmaceutical addiction is T is usually a bio-identical hormone that your body normally produces (but is lacking) and it is not patented petroleum-derived, toxic to your body, expensive, patented substance. 

So for diet advice: the Standard American Diet (SAD) is killing you and everyone else in this country who follows it. Ever wonder why so many young kids are getting juvenile diabetes at epidemic rates? Diet. Period. This format doesn't let me go into this in great detail, but basically if it comes in a bag, box or a can-- don't eat it. Buy it fresh, cook it yourself and avoid EVERY form of processed food, white flour and sugar (also investigate potential wheat intolerance-- its much more common than people think), I highly recommend the book "The Maker's Diet" as an excellent starting point-- even if you think your diet is awesome, read this book if you haven't already. 

Next for supplements: Terrestris Tribulus is an all-natural supplement that has been proven to boosts available testosterone in the body (it blocks proteins that bind to free testosterone, therefore making more T available for your body to use) This works, and its not expensive, and has typically no ill side effects. Speaking of supplements: DO NOT rely on webmd or any other website that is any way affiliated with the medical establishment for advice on supplements (and by supplements, I am including vitamins here). These websites are ALL funded in one way or another by the major pharmaceutical companies and therefore cannot be trusted to give you accurate, reliable info on supplements. In fact it is well known among the natural supplement community (homeopaths, supplement makers, even doctors who are knowledgeable on the subject, etc) that drug companies regularly fund flawed studies to purposely "prove" that supplements are either ineffective, or dangerous. (They will use the wrong form of the supplement, typically the artificial produced form, the incorrect dose, and a statistically meaningless sample group with no contorls). Why, you ask? Love of money. Supplements work, they are unpatentable, they are effective, very few have any side effects, and they help your body heal itself, as they work and address the root cause. Remember this key fact: Healthy people do not need drug companies. Read "Orthomolecular Medicine for Everyone" for an excellent primer on supplements. Remember, the big pharma makes their money by treating symptoms for the life of the patient, NOT by solving the root issue (curing = no lifetime pharmaceutical addict. treating symptoms = lifetime annuity for the drug company). 

Also, anyone who works out should be familiar with protein powders and their constituents which are amino acids. Amino Acids are the building blocks of protein and absolutely critical for health. There are two kinds: essential, and non-essentials. Both are necessary for your body. Essential simply means the body cannot manufacture it (non-essentials it can), and therefore you need to acquire from external sources. Anyhow, the issue is these substances are cheap, effective, and you guessed it-- unpatentable. Body builders have known for ages that taking the amino L-Arginine before lifting gives better, more powerful lifts (energy) AND gives them a much better "pump" (that pumped up, taught, filled muscle effect you get after hard lifting). This is because arginine is a natural vasodilator. It functions in the body by causing your endothelial cells that line your arteries to produce NO (Nitrous Oxide), which in turn causes the walls of the arteries to 'relax' or expand. More blood = more energy = more blood volume in muscles = greater pump. What this means to you is that it works on ALL the arteries in the body, meaning it will lower your blood pressure AND provide the same arterial dialation effect as Viagra WITHOUT ANY SIDE EFFECTS. Studies have proven arginine is as effective, and more effective in some cases than both Viagra for erectile dysfunction AND beta blockers or other blood pressure meds. Why don't doctors advise patients to use this substance? Love of money and/or ignorance. It is not natural and therefore non-patentable. A 1lb jar of powdered NOW brand L-Arginine from iHerb will cost you about $26. Even taken 3X/day this should last your you at least 3-4 months, if not 6 or more. Ready "NO More Heart Disease: How Nitric Oxide Can Prevent--Even Reverse--Heart Disease and Strokes" for an excellent primer on Arginine. (FYI, your body products nitric oxide "NO" from arginine. NO is the same substance in granny's nitro angina pills). 

After fixing your diet, incorporate the supplements, get your husband on a work out program. I am a big advocate for jiujitsu-- it is practical self defense, increases confidence and hands-down is an awesome full-body HITT workout. Or kickboxing. However, if he is not ready for that-- get him to lift weights. Free weight lifting and building muscle is one of the best all around health improving activities you can do for your body at any age.

I hope this stuff helps someone!! 

PS I have an extensive library of books on health, diet, exercise, vitamins, supplements, etc. Feel free to email me if you want a more extensive suggested reading list.


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