# Need Womens' Insight



## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

Dear Ladies:

For some reason, my wife seems to equate my expressions of sexual desire as something that demeans or lessens my emotional love for her. Can any of you help me understand why?

For example, just last night we were on Skype, sharing aspects of our day. For a variety of reasons, it has been more than two weeks since we last made love. Knowing she was alone in the room, I looked into the camera and told her that I really, really, really wanted to make love to her and hoped we would have the chance to be alone this weekend when I am home. She responded, "you just want sex." She said it like I had somehow just insulted her. It's definitely not the first time I've gotten that reaction when I have expressed my desire for her.

Brief history: My wife and I both in our early 50s and have been married almost 30 years. Two kids, one still at home. Lots of emotional ups and downs in that period, but we've managed to stay together through it all and in many ways are more connected and in love than we've ever been.

About a year ago I took a new position in a town about 3 hours away from where we live. We intended for the three of us to move, but there were complications with my wife's work and child's school that prevented us doing it. As a result, I am commuting back and forth during the week. Between my regular trips home on weekends and other business travel that takes me near our town, I average being home about four nights a week. The lack of time together, combined with a teenager in the house limit our opportunities for sexual intimacy. When we are apart we talk/text several times a day. I usually call to wake her each morning, we often talk at lunch and right after work, and we typically Skype for an hour or so each night--so we are trying to maintain our emotional connection and I think we're succeeding.

One area in which we have never completely connected has been sexually. A common theme, especially in longer term marriages I know, but in our case it seems like we never had it completely. We are both attractive, physically fit (both work out 4-5 times a week) and have no physical reasons for not being more sexually active. It's not just the lack of frequency that concerns me--I understand why that may not increase. It's more about the lack of passion/romance/sensuality--things that are important to me and things that we've rarely experienced over the past 20 years.

Reactions like the one from last night leave me wondering what I've done wrong all these years and, increasingly, what's wrong with her? I feel damned if I don't express sexual desire (leaving it up to her to initiate it) and damned if I do (like it somehow reduces her to being simply a sexual object).

There is a lot more to our story, but for me the puzzle of our sexual intimacy is once that don't think I will ever be able to solve. We've been in counseling together and separately a few times over the past two decades. I know some of the issues that undoubtedly impact our intimate life, but no matter what I've tried it seems like this is one aspect of our relationship that won't improve--let alone reach a level to which I will be fulfilled, sexually.

Not sure I expect any of you to really help me/us solve this, but it feels good to write a little about it, nonetheless. Thanks for listening.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Firstly you need to have a discussion and let her know, that your desire for her is normal natural and healthy, and you will not apologise for it.

Next she needs to understand that couples connect through sex, it's extremely important and you both release oxytocin , which keeps you feeling "in love" and connected. 

Then tell her if it was only sexual you wouldn't still be with her, but you love her and sex is important to you and should also be important to her. 

Make it a priority.


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## torani (May 6, 2013)

aaroncj said:


> I know some of the issues that undoubtedly impact our intimate life, but no matter what I've tried it seems like this is one aspect of our relationship that won't improve--let alone reach a level to which I will be fulfilled, sexually.
> .



Hi! Can you share w us on what these other issues are that have impacted your sexl ife?


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks, Little Deer. I have told her these things (in fact I did so again last night after her reaction.). She says she understands and things may improve for awhile, but not for long. 

I guess I just need to keep at it--but after awhile it seems futile. 

Again, thanks for listening.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Before my marriage ended, I had feelings similar to your wife. There were times I felt I was only the maid and a "piece of meat" to my husband. It's a bad feeling to have. Simply put, I didn't feel loved. Is this how your wife is feeling?

Much of this is covered in a great book,_The Five Love Languages_ by Gary Chapman. Your love language is obviously physical touch. Your wife's love language is something else. Figure out what makes your wife really feel loved and cherished. Once you do that, she will reciprocate. I know I would have.


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## torani (May 6, 2013)

Based on her response, it sounds as if she believes you want to have sex, but not convinced that making love to her is your priority motive.. Maybe she thinks your just saying you want to make love to her, when really all you want is to get laid... 

I could be wrong though... That is why I ask what are the other issues that have impacted the intimacy..

Also, since we women tend to have a need for an emotional connection with our partner in order to have sex with them, is she feeling a bit of a disconnect with you. Since you work out of town and are gone often... 

Also, do you have a standing date night with her? If not try taking her out once a week and woo her with no expectation of intimacy... This may help her reconnect with you emotionally and then the sex may follow naturally...

Just a few thoughts..


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## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

Dear Friend,

It is really hard to give good advice with only one perspective of this relationship. So if I can give you a woman's perspective on these issues, some of it may apply.

First, and very importantly, if porn is in the picture, get rid of it. I can't tell you how many women start to feel their spouses touch, caress, or simple flirting, as offensive, and they simply think they aren't sexual. Usually it turns out the husband is an avid pornography viewer who believes his overtures are loving, but he has simply learned to objectify women. In those cases there is NO love perceived by the woman, and it feels more like an assault. They feel disgusted, and don't know why themselves. Many people can see a little porn and have no problem. But I've seen too many people with a pattern of porn, who end up with some kind of dysfunction.

You say you have had issues in the past. One of the things I admire about men, is their ability to get over things and move on. Women are not like that. If there is something that has hurt her in the past, it could be getting in the way of your relationship. Nobody likes to be hurt, and we all put up walls, if we think another can hurt us. If that could be the case, you need to be her friend. You need to be able to put sex aside for the moment, and take time to have fun and laugh with her. Call her your "best friend". Take time to have intimate conversations with her, and be a true friend that she can trust. This will help, and if you hurt her, you owe it to her.

Another thing men should know is that a needy man is a big turn off. How would you feel if your wife was never satisfied with the amount of money you earned, and she indirectly but consistently nagged at you about the issue? As soon as you brought home the paycheck she seemed satisfied, but the next day she was questioning why you didn't earn more, she has told you in the past that most men earn 2x times as much, and wondered what the problem was with you. The following week, she gets frustrated, making you feel bad, and could expect any conversation to eventually be about that paycheck. She does everything she is supposed to, and is generally nice, but reality seems to be she has no regard for you other than the paycheck. If she does discuss other issues, it feels like pretense. In fact you feel like she doesn't know you at all, because her relationship with you revolves around that paycheck. She is never hostile, but she'll get mopey, depressed, pout, act like a victim without saying anything. The passive/aggressive abuse is exhausting to you. Eventually every time you see her, the hair on the back your neck stands up, and you feel pressured and tense, even if she doesn't say a word. I don't know how else to explain it. A healthy woman's life doesn't revolve around money, just like a healthy man's life doesn't revolve around sex. Some people attempt, or believe themselves to be, doting and loving spouses, but they are actually draining and selfish because of the unhealthy baggage they brought into the marriage.

There is a difference between making love, and sex. A truly seductive man, that a women throws her panties off for, gets into a woman's head and understands her. He knows what motivates her, and makes her feel good. He is man who is confident with or without her, and doesn't make her feel like he is using her to self medicate. In addition to taking care of himself of course. Most seductive men don't actually understand a woman well, and usually lack confidence as much as everyone, but they make her feel otherwise. Women don't respond to overtly sexual gestures like men do, if they do, they are pretending. Women like seduction. A delicious meal, in a pretty setting, a good laugh, and of course some wine will always do the trick. Good luck


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## torani (May 6, 2013)

Michelleinmichigan said:


> Some men attempt be be doting and loving husband's, but they are actually draining and selfish. A truly seductive man, that a women throws her panties off for, gets into a woman's head and understands her. He knows what motivates her, and makes her feel good. He is man who is confident with or without her, and doesn't make her feel like he is using her to self medicate. In addition to taking care of himself of course. Most seductive men don't actually understand a woman well, and usually lack confidence as much as everyone, but they make her feel otherwise. Women don't respond to overtly sexual gestures like men do, if they do, they are pretending. Women like seduction. A delicious meal, in a pretty setting, and of course some wine will always do the trick.


Very well said Michelle, if only every man could read and apply this there would be so many very happy, pantiless (  ) wives out there!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

aaroncj said:


> Dear Ladies:
> 
> For some reason, my wife seems to equate my expressions of sexual desire as something that demeans or lessens my emotional love for her. Can any of you help me understand why?


As a woman, i have been told all of my life that men want one thing and one thing only. I have been told this by women and by men. These threads are absolutely full of men saying that a married woman should not go to clubs, accept a drink, or even talk to a man because all he is doing is looking at her a$$ or her t!ts and hoping to get laid. She is naive and stupid to think otherwise.

Then, magically, we're supposed to believe that our bfs and SOs are not like that. They "love" us. Sex isn't just sex anymore -- it's about "connecting". 

Frankly, I find these mixed messages puzzling and sometimes wonder what men really mean when they use the word "love." On my more jaded days, I'm inclined to think it's just that they want something regular to tap for the dopamine/oxytocin rush. And, as they keep complaining, it can be challenging to keep finding new women to hook up with.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

always_alone said:


> As a woman, i have been told all of my life that men want one thing and one thing only. I have been told this by women and by men. These threads are absolutely full of men saying that a married woman should not go to clubs, accept a drink, or even talk to a man because all he is doing is looking at her a$$ or her t!ts and hoping to get laid. She is naive and stupid to think otherwise.
> 
> Then, magically, we're supposed to believe that our bfs and SOs are not like that. They "love" us. Sex isn't just sex anymore -- it's about "connecting".
> 
> Frankly, I find these mixed messages puzzling and sometimes wonder what men really mean when they use the word "love." On my more jaded days, I'm inclined to think it's just that they want something regular to tap for the dopamine/oxytocin rush. And, as they keep complaining, it can be challenging to keep finding new women to hook up with.


:iagree:

Would love to hear from the male perspective on how these messages (should be?) interpreted correctly.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

MPOV



always_alone said:


> As a woman, i have been told all of my life that men want one thing and one thing only. I have been told this by women and by men. These threads are absolutely full of men saying that a married woman should not go to clubs, accept a drink, or even talk to a man because all he is doing is looking at her a$$ or her t!ts and hoping to get laid. She is naive and stupid to think otherwise.


I tell my girls this all the time that men think about sex a lot, especially the younger ones. Part of it is just primitive nature, we want to spread our seed to have the best chance of reproduction. And for some guys, it is the thrill of the chase and conquest. I try to stress to my girls that they need to be careful more than anything. Have a good time but keep a wary eye.

Besides, clubs and bars are notorious as being meat markets. Been there, done that.



always_alone said:


> Then, magically, we're supposed to believe that our bfs and SOs are not like that. They "love" us. Sex isn't just sex anymore -- it's about "connecting".


I am told all the time that women are just looking for a stable guy with money... At some point you have to have a faith that it is more than just a physical attraction. 



always_alone said:


> Frankly, I find these mixed messages puzzling and sometimes wonder what men really mean when they use the word "love." On my more jaded days, I'm inclined to think it's just that they want something regular to tap for the dopamine/oxytocin rush.


I am glad that women find men as conflicting as we find them to be sometimes 

Personally I find you should judge a man more by his actions, not so much by his words. You can derive a lot about a man by the way a man treats a women. We are a lot more action driven and tend to show as opposed to speak. I think that is one of the things vastly different between men and women. It takes a lot of effort to interpret what the other is "saying" and a lot gets lost in the translation.


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## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

always_alone said:


> As a woman, i have been told all of my life that men want one thing and one thing only. I have been told this by women and by men.
> 
> Then, magically, we're supposed to believe that our bfs and SOs are not like that. They "love" us. Sex isn't just sex anymore -- it's about "connecting".
> .


I was told the same thing. I think the intention is to save girls from thinking that if a man sleeps with her, he loves her. That is not the case. A man can have sex with a woman he doesn't love, they can have even sex with women they dislike. Too many women, on the other hand, mistake sex for love, at least initially. Men aren't necessarily bad, they are just different. The problem isn't only a girls heart getting broken, it is getting pregnant by a man that doesn't love you, and not having a father for that child. Therefore, "the warnings".

I do think that it is common sense though, that if a man asks you to marry him, it is safe to assume he probably loves you. With marriage a woman has some legal and monetary protection for herself and her children, no matter what happens. I don't think it is smart for women to spend years of their lives with a man that has no expectations of marriage. But to each his own.

Personally I think a woman has to understand that men are different, and have boundaries, or in the case of a spouse, make sure her husband is being satisfied sexually (unless he is hyper sexual). Men also have to understand that women are different. 

Women are the ones who will have to deal with the consequences our own decisions and mistakes. So why dedicate yourself completely to someone who is not willing to marry you? A woman can claim to be victimized all she wants, but at the end of the day, we are the ones who allow things or not. Women are mostly the ones who bear the consequences of sex resulting in pregnancy for example, so I think those warnings are fair.


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I am really looking for perspective. Here is a “short list” of the issues (well, maybe a LONG list):

--just weeks prior to our wedding she slept with an old boyfriend. She pleaded with me and swore it was a mistake. I "forgave" her and we went on, trying to build a life together. We pretty much swept it under the rug, though, and she has not ever, even to this day, been able to tell my why it happened.

--she seemed to lack self-confidence and needed a lot of affirmation. I recently found copies of cards and letters from our engagement and our early marriage in which I was telling her to believe in herself and how great I thought she was. Shortly after our wedding her mother was diagnosed with cancer and she died about three years later. My wife took her mother’s death pretty hard and there was also lots of family drama among her siblings and her father that amplified her mourning. Rather than reaching to me for comfort during her mother's illness, she seemed to distance herself.

--during our courtship and engagement our sexual relationship was good, but following her affair and subsequent to our wedding things didn’t seem to progress. Even in our early 20s we lapsed into a pattern of 2-3X a month at most. I just chalked it up to differences in libido. I thought that maybe she just wasn't wired "that way."

--in our early marriage we had three difficult pregnancies and we lost three babies. Our oldest was born in between miscarriages. Following her birth, a doctor mis-diagnosed an ectopic pregnancy, performed a tubal ligation on my wife, and killed the baby who was in utero. We subsequently made attempts at in vitro fertilization and eventually were blessed with an adopted child whom we have loved dearly ever since.

--she was angry a lot of the time—with me, with our older child, and the tension spilled into our bedroom, leading to periods of weeks and even months when we would have little or no sex. I tried to be supportive, but also felt like she didn’t like me much of the time, so I tended to withdraw further.

--needless to say, those were difficult times. She went through personal counseling and we also went to marriage counseling. Things got better for awhile, especially after the arrival of our second child, but she slipped back into a pattern of anger and depression. Eventually she started medication when she also realized how her moods were affecting me and the family.

--like before, the distance between us increased. Though I still loved her, I became convinced that she would be better off without me in the picture—except financially, and I thought of scenarios in which she could also be financially secure. I threw myself into work and, frankly, resigned myself to the fact that things would not improve. I intended to keep my vows and stay with her at least until our younger child finished school. 

--two years ago, I discovered that she had been having a six-year long-distance emotional affair with an old boyfriend (not the one she had the affair with) and that, while they had not physically consummated their affair, they expressed deep feelings for one another and met once, more than five years earlier. (Subsequent emails confirmed that they did not go through with the final act, but there had been some passionate embraces.) Both expressed regret that they had not seized the moment, however, and that theme was repeated in several email and facebook exchanges over the five years following. In one email exchange prior to their meeting she told him that her attraction to him was “incredibly sexual,” and that she’d “never” had such desire for “any man.” When I asked her about that statement she deflected it. In fact, though she has apologized repeatedly, she deflected the whole emotional affair and largely continues to do so, saying it was because of how disconnected we were. Yet, I also learned that the two of them had an earlier rendezvous, in the early 90s, when they also resisted their “passion” for one another. I discovered that at various points in our marriage she had maintained contact with this man in one form or another.

--last year she had a nasty falling out with several members of her family and has spent the past year being hurt and angry at them. It is related to our reason for having to live apart and for that reason our separation fuels her frustrations and emotional pain. As a result, I have tried to be supportive, listening to her, encouraging her to seek counseling (which she has done), and making every effort to be home as many nights as possible. 

With that as background we have been working harder on us these past two years. “He” is no longer in the picture (he died in an accident last summer and even before that I felt that her connection to him had been broken). We did the love languages quiz and found out that my top areas were physical touch and quality time. Hers were quality time and acts of service. We do have regular “date nights,” at least weekly. When I am home I try to help out with household chores like laundry, dishes, trash, lawn, etc., as much as I can. 

I think I have been a considerate and loving partner, at least compared to how I hear other husband’s being described by friends, family, and in discussions on this site and others. When we are together I am affectionate, holding hands, sitting close together on the couch, sleeping with my arms wrapped around her and her (cold) feet pressed up against me for warmth. I tell her nearly every day how beautiful she still is to me. I don’t know how much more I could have done or could do to impress upon her how loved she is—for her entire self, including as the object of my romantic desires.

I think I am attractive to women on a physical and interpersonal level, at least based on attention I have received over the years. I am well-groomed, fastidious in my personal hygiene, and careful about my appearance. I have been a stable partner, a good provider, am well-educated, have enjoyed a good relationship with her family, and have been supportive of her in her career. 

She doesn’t like to “plan” for sex, but our life is such that we have very limited windows of opportunity. If I try to suggest we make time for it this weekend or later tonight, she will never commit to trying to make it happen. She says that’s too much pressure. She never lets me see her nude—though I love how she looks. The shyness was there 25 years ago, too. If I outright initiate love-making I am almost always turned down. So, I find myself trying to guess if the mood might possibly strike her later that evening. It can happen only after our youngest is in bed, away from home, or when we are away together. It almost always happens with the lights off. It almost always follows the same formula. It almost never happens outside the bedroom or during the day. It involves kissing, but rarely the kind of long, languorous, passionate kisses that I yearn for. 

I know I am not perfect and I know that what I present is all my perspective. That is why I appreciate the perspective of the women who have commented. I am not needy, but my needs are not being met. When I try to discuss my needs, she takes it as criticism and gets defensive rather than discussing with me how we can work on it together. I have point blank asked her what I could do to heighten her enjoyment of sex and she says “nothing.” I have asked her to tell me what her sexual fantasies are and she says she has none. She never asks what mine would be (tame though they are) and will not make an effort to do anything fun or playful in the bedroom. I suggested that we take a romantic weekend away to get away from the stresses of kids and home and focus on ways to improve our life in the bedroom. She isn’t interested if it's "just for sex.". 

Should I just be happy with what I’ve got—a beautiful wife whom I love very much, but after nearly 30 years of trying just doesn’t seem that “into me,” sexually? Or, is there something else I can try? I’ve tried the direct approach, the indirect approach, and ignoring it entirely. I don’t think she would try couples therapy again since the last time she felt the therapist sided with me.


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

Just to be clear on my original post. I was not proposing that the minute I walk through the door this evening that my wife and I run off into the bedroom so I can have a wham-bam session, etc. I was suggesting that we make time for us to spend together in an intimate exchange. I used the phrase "making love" because that is what I want--not duty sex.

Thanks again to all who have shared your thoughts.


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## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

aaroncj said:


> Just to be clear on my original post. I was not proposing that the minute I walk through the door this evening that my wife and I run off into the bedroom so I can have a wham-bam session, etc. I was suggesting that we make time for us to spend together in an intimate exchange. I used the phrase "making love" because that is what I want--not duty sex.
> 
> Thanks again to all who have shared your thoughts.


Ok, assuming their aren't any other porn/sexual dysfunction issues in your marriage, she is NOT into you, because she doesn't respect you.

She doesn't respect you, because for some reason you don't respect yourself. You put up with way too many offenses on her part, and really nobody appreciates a person that doesn't have boundaries. 

I get the impression you weren't able to confront her about those issues, and don't communicate general. That is a sign of passive aggresive abuse going on somewhere.

She may have issues, but so do you. You need to reestablish your value. Get your game on. Nobody likes a doormat.


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks, Michelle, for your comments. I will admit that there have been times, especially early on, when I didn't assert my full worth. It's hard to represent everything that happens in a 30+-year relationship, so I can see how you might come to the conclusion that I am some sort of spineless whipping boy. I can assure you that I am not a doormat nor do I think I have failed to reestablish my value. I know that I was able to do that in the aftermath of her EA

I can even say with confidence that my wife is very much "in love" with me, sees me as her "hero" and does respect me. It's just that from a sexuality standpoint, we have always seemed to be in different places--and I don't know what more I can do to heal that part of our otherwise very intimate connection.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Your story is a heart-breaking laundry list of libido killers: infidelity, grief, medication, stress, insecurity... 

Hard to know where to begin.

But you see both love and progress and that's hopeful. 

Someone who has shut down sexually is unlikely to have much in the way of desire or fantasy. But that doesn't mean they can't be reawakened. Do you know what attracted her to you in the first place? Any sense of why she strayed?

More understanding here may help you move forward.


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks always alone. As I was going through individual counseling last year my counselor suggested that my wife sounds like she has a personality disorder. I don't think it is a severe case, but I see his point. She has seldom been truly happy for extended periods of time in our marriage. It can be draining. Our older child, who majored in psychology and is now in medical school recently said that my wife exhibited elements of avoidant personality disorder--and I can see why/how that might be true. My wife tends to be insecure in a lot of ways, is hyper-sensitive to criticism. Another characteristic of someone with APD is that they may "fantasize about idealized relationships with others." This came from a child who doesn't know about my wife's emotional affair or her other betrayals. 

If I am to believe what my wife tells me, she was attracted to me because she thought I was smart, funny, a good person, someone with whom she shared common background and values, and she thought I was good looking. She thought I was fun and enjoyed being in my company. We were both seniors in college and neither of us lacked for opportunities to date or have relationships with other people. She was (and still is) a beautiful woman who, when she smiles, lights up a room. When she is in a good mood and able to relax and have fun there is no other person in the world I'd rather be with. She can be quirky and cute and works hard both in her career and for our house and children. 

In counseling last year I came to a conclusion that I hadn't ever considered before. My wife is selfish. She is nice and can be generous, for sure, but in the final analysis, she has difficulty thinking of others first. The only exception to that would be our children. She thinks in terms of "fair" or "not fair" a lot--which seems to me to be a victim's way of thinking. She blames others (including me) for things that don't go well in her life. 

Again, I am by no means perfect and I am not looking to leave my wife. Yet, if I can be at least a little selfish, I'd say that the lack of genuine passion and sexual chemistry that has pervaded much of our relationship leaves me feeling like I have settled for something less than I "deserve." (How's that for whining?)

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

always_alone said:


> As a woman, i have been told all of my life that men want one thing and one thing only. I have been told this by women and by men. These threads are absolutely full of men saying that a married woman should not go to clubs, accept a drink, or even talk to a man because all he is doing is looking at her a$$ or her t!ts and hoping to get laid. She is naive and stupid to think otherwise.
> 
> Then, magically, we're supposed to believe that our bfs and SOs are not like that. They "love" us. Sex isn't just sex anymore -- it's about "connecting".
> 
> Frankly, I find these mixed messages puzzling and sometimes wonder what men really mean when they use the word "love."


There's no mixed message here. Men (and some women, believe it or not!!) really want sex. When they are single, they want it, and when they are attached/married, they want it from their partner too.

Maybe why it looks like a "mixed message" to you is because *you are putting a sinister slant on the whole thing (and so is the OP's wife!). But there's nothing wrong with wanting sex!!* It's normal. It's healthy. It's how we create children, for heaven's sake. 

Yes, there are some rapists and sexual predators out there, but if you are in a marriage, then a trust level should have been established already, and you should be WELL beyond worrying about that from your partner. 



> On my more jaded days, I'm inclined to think it's just that they want something regular to tap for the dopamine/oxytocin rush.


Even if that is what your partner wanted today, what's wrong with that? Seriously.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Theseus said:


> There's no mixed message here. Men (and some women, believe it or not!!) really want sex. When they are single, they want it, and when they are attached/married, they want it from their partner too.
> 
> Maybe why it looks like a "mixed message" to you is because *you are putting a sinister slant on the whole thing (and so is the OP's wife!). But there's nothing wrong with wanting sex!!* It's normal. It's healthy. It's how we create children, for heaven's sake.
> 
> Yes, there are some rapists and sexual predators out there, but if you are in a marriage, then a trust level should have been established already, and you should be WELL beyond worrying about that from your partner.



You are missing the "only" in the claim that men only want sex. It isn't that they want sex AND love and connection; it is that they ONLY want sex and don't care about you as a person, just about how hot you are. So the mixed messages is that they all of a sudden decide they do in fact care about more than just sex. 

My question is why I should believe this? I've had many a guy tell me he loves me when it isn't true and he just wants sex. I've even had several marriage proposals from drunk men who want to get laid. A bunch of men here on TAM insist that any time a man talks to a woman, all he cares about is sex and she is naive and stupid to think otherwise.

So why should I believe that all.of a sudden some guy wants more from me than his dopamine rush that he can get anywhere else?

And if you honestly think that there's nothing wrong with this picture, well, let's just say you have a very different idea of what makes a good relationship than I do.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

aaroncj said:


> .
> 
> In counseling last year I came to a conclusion that I hadn't ever considered before. My wife is selfish. She is nice and can be generous, for sure, but in the final analysis, she has difficulty thinking of others first. The only exception to that would be our children. She thinks in terms of "fair" or "not fair" a lot--which seems to me to be a victim's way of thinking. She blames others (including me) for things that don't go well in her life.
> 
> Again, I am by no means perfect and I am not looking to leave my wife. Yet, if I can be at least a little selfish, I'd say that the lack of genuine passion and sexual chemistry that has pervaded much of our relationship leaves me feeling like I have settled for something less than I "deserve." (How's that for whining?)


It's up to you to decide what you deserve. But we're all less than perfect, and there's no shortage of selfishness in this world. Certainly not a quality unique to your wife.

And it's even potentially a way to move forward --if you can find a way to tap into that selfishness, to show her that sex and passion with you is absolutely in her own interest...

How? That's much harder because we're all different. But if she can't say what turns her on, then watch for clues in her behaviour. What is she drawn to? What makes her come alive, animates her, makes her smile? Can you tap that?


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

always_alone said:


> You are missing the "only" in the claim that men only want sex. It isn't that they want sex AND love and connection; it is that they ONLY want sex and don't care about you as a person, just about how hot you are. So the mixed messages is that they all of a sudden decide they do in fact care about more than just sex.


Few men want *only* sex. At a minimum, even the most selfish also want affirmation, an ego boost, etc. But anyway, even if they just want sex, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. You like sex too, don't you? Why can't you both just enjoy it for what it is?



> My question is why I should believe this? I've had many a guy tell me he loves me when it isn't true and he just wants sex.


That is different. I agree it's very unfair for someone to deceive you. But deception is as old as mankind itself, it has nothing to do with "mixed messages", it is simply about them lying to you. 




> A bunch of men here on TAM insist that any time a man talks to a woman, all he cares about is sex and she is naive and stupid to think otherwise.


That's certainly true for many men, particularly if the woman is attractive. Yes, men are usually thinking about sex with the women around them, even if they deny it (which many on TAM laughably do). But there's nothing sinister here, its simple biology. To deny that is to deny who we are as human beings. 




> And if you honestly think that there's nothing wrong with this picture, well, let's just say you have a very different idea of what makes a good relationship than I do.


Not sure if our ideas are at odds or not, but it's possible for relationships to be based on sex only. HOWEVER, sex with someone you love is much better than someone you don't love. It's pretty simple.


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## Michelleinmichigan (Jun 26, 2013)

Aron, your wife sounds a lot like most women.

Everybody, men, women, and children need boundaries. I need to know that if I do anything to disrespect my husband/family, it will have consequences. Not really, but I prefer it that way.

People get away with what they can. What is so wrong with you that you have accepted so much disrespect on her part?

You deserve better and the only one who can make that clear to her is you. I get the impression there is something in your past affecting your present.

What was your upbringing like? Family, childhood, etc. remember that you are anonymous so you can discuss openly.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Michelleinmichigan said:


> I was told the same thing. *I think the intention is to save girls from thinking that if a man sleeps with her, he loves her. That is not the case. A man can have sex with a woman he doesn't love, they can have even sex with women they dislike. Too many women, on the other hand, mistake sex for love, at least initially. Men aren't necessarily bad, they are just different. *
> 
> *The problem isn't only a girls heart getting broken, it is getting pregnant by a man that doesn't love you, and not having a father for that child. Therefore, "the warnings".*


Couldn't agree more !! Men have 10 times + more testosterone in their younger yrs over women (that's the lust hormone -and it's [email protected]#$) .....some wouldn't give a damn what they stuck it in - they just want to get off, they'd use an Apple Pie (hence the scene in







) 

Seriously ...to not warn our daughters of this.. would be utterly wreckless in my opinion.... A wise woman will not jump ....

And allow a man to woo her .....to show/ prove his love *by his actions **and the test of time.*..what he is made of, what is in his ...if she wants more than "*just sex*" , that is..

I also feel women who have been used and discarded, heart broken one too many times.... because of these experiences & the emotions attached to them (which I have no idea this wife had??) could play on her mind...she may even carry it into her marriage associating it with her husband...or just too much we see in society leads her to believe all men want nothing but SEX. 

This wife needs educated.... she may be *low drive*..is she at all *sexually repressed*, *un resolved resentment lurking* ?...so many things could contribute ... She may have no understanding of what she is putting her husband through...very very sad.. but so awful common...

I am so convinced... that countless women do not understand, can not comprehend....how MEN feel overwhelmingly loved through , love making, our affection & yielding to them in the physical. Even myself back in the day (and I was not even low drive)... I cared more about reading a book at night, or had the baby in between us. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Sexual intimacy is the 1 act a man can only get FROM his wife...the woman he chose to walk down that aisle , to love & cherish for life....... 

This song likely expresses a husbands deep emotions in wanting to hold, caress and take his wife to the heights of pleasure ...when a man feels this way....he just can't lay it down.... It is near impossible. 

Bryan Adams - Please Forgive Me - YouTube



> Please forgive me, I know not what I do
> Please forgive me, I can't stop loving you
> Don't deny me, this pain I'm going through
> Please forgive me, if I need you like I do
> ...


Maybe you & your wife can read this together...all starts with communication ... 

 Sex is an Emotional NEED...Male sexuality is a central part of who he is as both a man and a husband

If Communication doesn't work... could get some ideas here to lower your thermostat - to where she will TAKE NOTICE >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

So many recommend this - for pointers to ALPHA it up - find Respect and UP your attraction - in marriage >>  The Married Man Sex Life Primer


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Few men want *only* sex. At a minimum, even the most selfish also want affirmation, an ego boost, etc. But anyway, even if they just want sex, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. You like sex too, don't you? Why can't you both just enjoy it for what it is?
> .


There is nothing wrong with wanting sex, and there is nothing wrong with *just* wanting sex. There's something off about pretending that it's about love and connection when it's about biology, affirmation, and ego boosts. 

That's the mixed message. On one hand, it's said that all men care only about sex, and it's just sex, pure biology without emotional attachment. Many, many men here have insisted that the only reason a man is interested in a woman is if she's hot and he wants in her pants. 

On the other hand, these same men want to make exceptions of themselves. "All" men are only after sex (and women are stupid to think otherwise or that men can be friends), but *they* are different, *they* want sex for love and connection. Somehow I'm supposed to believe that *this* time is different, and I'm just that special (to the one who wants in my pants), or he is just not like those others. 

Ummm yeah, right. It's either mixed messages or it's all out and out lies. You tell me.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

OP, it sounds like your wife has always been this way, never been particularly interested in sex with you and always been difficult more generally.

I don't think you should hold out much hope that she's going to change. There's not magic formula here, although I'm expecting the MMSL gang to turn up shortly.

I don't know why so many women seem to have an issue with their husband's wanting to have sex with them. I don't understand it. I feel nothing but flattered when my husband says or does something that shows he's sexually attracted to me. 

"All you want is sex." So what? As long as there is love and devotion in all areas of the relationship, who cares? And it can be about both anyway, wanting to get off *and* wanting to connect physically with the person you love.

I bet there are a lot of "all you want is sex" women who would change their tunes pretty quickly if their husbands stopped trying and checked out sexually.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Lyris said:


> I don't know why so many women seem to have an issue with their husband's wanting to have sex with them. I don't understand it. I feel nothing but flattered when my husband says or does something that shows he's sexually attracted to me.
> 
> "All you want is sex." So what? As long as there is love and devotion in all areas of the relationship, who cares? And it can be about both anyway, wanting to get off *and* wanting to connect physically with the person you love.
> 
> I bet there are a lot of "all you want is sex" women who would change their tunes pretty quickly if their husbands stopped trying and checked out sexually.


I get the impression that sometimes the "all you want is sex" complaint is just a knee-jerk reaction and doesn't always mean that much.

However, I also think that there is a widespread attitude that men *only* want sex. They themselves present it this way, and use this as an excuse to "protect" their wives from interacting too much with other men. This attitude is reinforced by those men who really do want only sex, and aren't at all interested in love or connection. And, I think, some husbands also reinforce this by saying that they love their wives, but ultimately making her feel like a piece of meat.

If it's in the context of a loving, devoted relationship, then it's by definition not *just about sex*. But what if one party is unsure about the existence of that love and devotion?


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## aaroncj (Nov 10, 2011)

Thanks again, everyone, for your thoughts. Certainly as a man there have been times before marriage and with my wife after marriage, where I wanted to enjoy sex largely, if not solely, for the sensual and physical pleasure it provides. Even in my care-free younger days, though, I didn't use women "just" for sex. I can say there have been plenty of women for whom I have felt a physical attraction and wondered what they would be like as a sexual partner. I can also say that, with one exception (involving lots of shots of schnapps--that she bought for me) I have never had a sex outside of a more committed and loving relationship. 

Given our 30+ years together, all that we have been through, and what I have demonstrated as my steadfastness, support, and love for her, for her to suggest that I "just want sex" hurts. It just does. 

When my wife and I got married, I thought we'd grow together sexually. I thought the love we had for each other and the fact that we were also physically and sexually attracted to each other (I believed that was mutual) would mean we were both interested in and committed to developing this aspect of our marriage. As you have seen, it hasn't happened and I guess I am mourning the lost opportunity for us. I am also struggling with the realization that as a "'til death do us part" couple in our 50s the door is closing for me to ever experience the kind of romantic and passionate sex life that I've longed to have.

The good news is that in the past couple of years my libido has waned a little and I sense the fire of my physical desire for her will become less intense. Maybe I just need to not worry about it anymore...


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