# What If I'm Wrong?



## reddoor (Sep 29, 2014)

I have accused my wife of cheating with her boss. It all began with the boss asking us at a party if we ever had sex outside of our marriage and *I* was the one who got in trouble for angrily reacting to the question. 

I can't really get into all of the details here because I'm afraid she will know it's me, but I can say that I've found too many "coincidences" for something not to have occurred between her and the OM. (I can say this includes caught lying, hiding soiled underwear, deleting texts from OM, etc) My gut feels so strongly about this. I've been jealous before (she admits she is a flirt and guys openly flirt with her even when I'm standing right there with her!) but I've never felt this kind of feeling that has consumed me and perhaps have ruined my marriage.

She has screamed at me, called me delusional, f-ing crazy, sick and other names, swears she's never done anything and says I am ruining our marriage (we've been married 10 years). Any "evidence" I bring to her attention swiftly makes her angry and she throws all of my faults back in my face. She swears on her father's grave that she has never done anything with this OM.

My heart wants to believe this but my head cannot. I am beginning therapy to try and understand what's going on with me because it very well could be me. But what if I'm wrong about her and what if I can never believe that she did not have an affair? I really want to believe it's not true but my head and heart are at odds.

Have any of you ever been wrong about thinking your spouse had an affair? If so, what did you do? Thanks.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I really doubt you will find anyone who was wrong here.

More likely, you will find many, many people who will tell you this is absolutely classic cheater script, that they themselves suffered through and were in exactly the same position you are now, only to find out later they were totally right and *should have* trusted their gut.

Watch and learn; they will come. And they will bring great advice.

Three points, from me:

1) If there is one thing I have learned at TAM through all my post-affair research and soul-searching, it's that the "gut feeling" you are talking about is almost never wrong. And when it is, it's only "off", not "wrong"..

2) Learn how to go stealth to investigate further. Get yourself a VAR (voice activated recorder), put it in her car, underneath her seat, attached with velcro, plugged to avoid it making any noise. Search TAM to find specifics. Pull phone records, get a keylogger. Even consider a PI. You need to know facts, because the suspicion will drive you completely nuts. Learn, however, how a WS can and will take an affair underground when they think their spouse is on to them.

3) Meanwhile, step back and *decide* for yourself what you will do if you find out that your gut was right and she is having some sort of an affair -- emotional or physical.

Also decide how sure you are, what you'd be willing to wager that you're right. Because you just might need to.

If you ARE wrong, there's a lot of crap already that needs explaining. How have these things been explained to you previously, and why were they acceptable explanations?

P.S. FYI, on the night I confronted my WW, *she*was telling *me* that I was not being nice, and she didn't like it and wasn't going to just stand for it... then she learned why. The best defense to a cheater is a good offense.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

reddoor when they scream and "swear" most of the times here they are guilty.
go get a voice activated recorder for her car use heavy velcro and you should get answers.

Or just go take her for a polygraph-more the threat of one.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

*"(I can say this includes caught lying, hiding soiled underwear, deleting texts from OM, etc)" - *

Did you make believe or make these up? Probably a big, fat "No!". So, your gut isn't wrong...You have to get yourself & your "blabber" mouth to her, in check, control the jealousy and dig for solid evidence...

Read the Newbie thread by AlmostRecovered in my signature below.

Gotta control that temper too...You don't want a DV charge.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

reddoor said:


> It all began with the boss asking us at a party if we ever had sex outside of our marriage and *I* was the one who got in trouble for angrily reacting to the question.


 Why would you get "in trouble for angrily reacting" to such an inappropriate question as to if the two of you have ever had "sex outside" of your marriage? Since the only way that you would get in trouble for your appropriate reaction is if your wife took his side in thinking that the question was OK, what type of sexual conversations do the two of them routinely have that the two of them think that this is normal?

Trust your gut. Cheaters always try to make it like your are crazy for suspecting them of cheating. Cheaters follow the motto that the best defense is a strong offense. The fact that your wife did not immediately take your side when the boss made his inappropriate comment, but instead went on the attack against you, speaks volumes.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Do not accuse her anymore act normal. Read weight lifters thread and start spying, but be careful that you don't get caught. You will get great advice here, but you will have to act on it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Red do you know anyone at her work you trust.
Act stupid for now and observe and/or hire a PI if you can.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Oh I forgot is her boss married?
If so get a hold of her.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

From what you've written I doubt you're wrong. Now it's time for a specific strategy.

Starting right now. Shut your mouth, open your eyes and ears. Above all, do not accuse her and let her think it's all blown over and she's succeeded in gaslighting (fooling) you. 

Go into full spy mode to find irrefutable evidence of her affair. This means you should check all electronic media and plant a couple VARs. Be patient, you'll get your evidence one way or another.

Again, stop confronting her! Shut up! Get a grip on yourself. All this does is drive her affair further underground and makes it more difficult for you to get evidence and cope. 

Realize, that if she lets it drop easily and goes on her merry way, then this is evidence in itself that she thinks she has successfully gaslighted you. She wont bring it up unless you do because she will want to deflect attention away from her affair.

Other posters will be along soon with good advise on how to snoop on her phone, computer, etc. Listen to them, and remember stealth is your ally. Good luck.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

reddoor said:


> I have accused my wife of cheating with her boss. It all began with *the boss asking us at a party if we ever had sex outside of our marriage* and *I* was the one who got in trouble for angrily reacting to the question.
> 
> I can't really get into all of the details here because I'm afraid she will know it's me, but I can say that *I've found too many "coincidences" for something not to have occurred between her and the OM.* *(I can say this includes caught lying, hiding soiled underwear, deleting texts from OM, etc)* My gut feels so strongly about this. I've been jealous before (she admits she is a flirt and guys openly flirt with her even when I'm standing right there with her!) but I've never felt this kind of feeling that has consumed me and perhaps have ruined my marriage.
> 
> ...


You're not wrong.

What kind of phone does she use?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

OK. Just for the hell of it and I hope that your wrong and work this out but..................what if your right? What if you find out that she was cheating with her boss or some other guy and you find out, what are you going to do about it?

You caught her lying, deleting texts from her boss, and hiding the soiled underwear. All in all, it adds up then when you bring it up, she throws it back at you and tries to make it your fault so what are you going to do if your hunch is right? 

One piece of advice is DO NOT let her heap it all on you like she's doing now. This is her bag. She has to own it and carry it with her so don't let her try to blame you and make sure that the next time you see the soiled underwear, keep it and get it DNA tested.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

What's that old line about "protesting too much?" Keep checking, brother. This sounds very suspicious, especially about your wife getting angry with you when you called the boss on the "swinging" suggestion. Don't accuse, just observe and keep gathering information. If she's having a fling with the bossman, sooner or later there'll be a slip up.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

One other bad thing, and almost always proof positive there's an affair, is when they swear on their childrens' live, father's life, etc.

And when I say almost always, I mean I have yet to see it disproven here.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

reddoor said:


> I have accused my wife of cheating with her boss. It all began with the boss asking us at a party if we ever had sex outside of our marriage and *I* was the one who got in trouble for angrily reacting to the question.
> 
> I can't really get into all of the details here because I'm afraid she will know it's me, but I can say that I've found too many "coincidences" for something not to have occurred between her and the OM. (I can say this includes caught lying, hiding soiled underwear, deleting texts from OM, etc) My gut feels so strongly about this. I've been jealous before (she admits she is a flirt and guys openly flirt with her even when I'm standing right there with her!) but I've never felt this kind of feeling that has consumed me and perhaps have ruined my marriage.
> 
> ...




You're going about it the wrong way by confronting her with circumstantial evidence. It's script that cheaters deny...deny..deny. You're being gaslighted, and that's also cheater script by being made to feel paranoid and delusional.

Lay low and stop confronting her. Play dumb, hire a PI. That's what I did. I took my time, and planned ahead for the cold hard evidence.

I hoped I was wrong but your gut never lies. 

Nothing like sheets of evidence and their stuff in garbage bags dropped off on the porch of their AP's with a thank you note for taking your cheater spouse off your hands.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Her getting angry at you when her boss crossed a boundary that no boys should cross is enough of a red flag for me to go into detective mode. Calling you delusional is even more.

Follow the advice here. Follow it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> Her getting angry at you when her boss crossed a boundary that no boys should cross is enough of a red flag for me to go into detective mode. Calling you delusional is even more.
> 
> Follow the advice here. Follow it.


:iagree::iagree:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Did you test her dirty panties for semen? Do you still have them?

An easy thing to do....


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Let me repeat: follow it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, you're not wrong.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

And keep a var on YOU when she screams again so she doesn't get a false RO on you and you are out of the house and she moves in the boss.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Because you are so volatile and reactive too, please prepare yourself "emotionally" to collect and before you review the evidence...Talk with a good, well-trusted male friend to help you get stuff off your chest and even help you collect the evidence.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Your wife got angry with YOU for her boss asking such a fvcking crazy question ?... 

Guys hit on your wife in front of you ? 

WTF is wrong with you ?.. .

I completely get the whole staring thing.. Guys are jerk0ffs and they really don't give a sh!t.. But you can never let another man hit on your wife an live to talk about it.. You need to knock the sh!t out of the both of them when that happens.. 

Therapy for what ? To tell you, your not crazy ? To tell you your wife is cheating on you ?

Your not crazy and your wife might be cheating on you.. There you go I saved you some money for right now.. Save it for the divorce lawyer..

Elaborate a bit more on that boss question ?

Is he married ? 
Did he want to swap ?
Have a 3 some ?
Did he just want to know if you guys ever had an affair on each other ? 
Was he asking the both of you ? or just her, or just you ?
Did he ask you in front of his wife ? 
Was his wife licking her lips looking at you like a dessert ?

Again, I get the whole attractive wife thing. I have similar issues with the G.F... BUT NO ONE and I FVCKING MEAN NO ONE HITS ON OR FLIRTS WITH MY GF WHILE I AM STANDING THERE.. Mind you if I walk away then its free game.. Again guys are Jerk0ffs and I expect that sh!t to happen. I expect my GF to be loyal.. If I catch her chatting it up, she is DONE... She knows there is NOTHING she can say at this point that would matter. I just wouldn't give her the chance to explain and she clearly knows it..


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

1 post and hits square on several of the hidden affair themes. Angry and irrational reaction, blameshifting, redirection, swears on her father's grave (I take from that there are no children). Soiled underwear? Either red is a troll or his wife is up to no good.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Harken Banks said:


> Either red is a troll or his wife is up to no good.












*VS.*


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

When you are in a dysfunctional relationship it gets you thinking dumb shi...t.

You are not wrong. Your wife is following the cheater excuses tip cheat to a tee.

My wife and (many other partners here) made me feel guilty, told me im crazy, jelous you name it. But the facts were all there. Yours are there as well.

As of now you need to stop accusing her of anything. Go into deep undercover mode and play dumb husband for a week.

Go out and get yourself a a decent VAR hide it in her car preferably strapped under her car seat, and GPS her vehcile as well.

Doing this will give you the answers you so desperately seek in less than a week and therefore proving you are not crazy.

And i say this with respect, harden up, this nice guy image has got you to where you are today.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

It sounds like more than a gut feeling if she is deleting texs, lying, has soiled underwear, and accusing you of being crazy. 

Stop confronting her. She's going to lie to you anyway. 

If I had a husband and loved that husband very much, I would reassure him I was not cheating and answer any and all questions because I love him and have nothing to hide. 

If my husband were bat-Sh!t crazy and accused me constantly of cheating with every man in the world and was being unreasonable by taking no evidence and turning it into evidence, I would suggest counseling and if it became unrelenting, it would be a deal breaker. 

Now that your gut has kicked in, it's pretty easy to go into spy-Mode and find out what she is up to. 

Key loggers, phone backups, voice activated recorders, private eye,......

But, if you keep confronting her, she will start hiding more evidence from you and she will be more careful. 

So for now, get a grip and pretend everything is normal. Lighten up around her. She will think you have fallen complacent or forgotten about the accusations and her guard will drop. 

AND, if you do find concrete evidence, STILL DON'T CONFRONT HER. 

I'd cheating a deal breaker for you?
Kids? How many? Ages?
Have either of you ever cheated before?
How is your marriage otherwise?
Is this a new job for her?

Sorry you are here. 

Most of us are here because we listened to our gut.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> Either red is a troll or his wife is up to no good.


You say it like those are the only two possibilities and they're mutually exclusive.

You failed to consider these:

He's a troll and his wife is up to no good.

She's a troll in a same sex marriage and her wife is up to no good.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

The final words of the the song "The Crunge" come to mind...

"Where's that confounded bridge?"


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Dude no way is she not cheating. The thing is, you should be filing just for the way she disrespected you.
I mean really, so what if she is boffing him. Her attacking you has killed this marriage.

The only reason you need the evidence now is to bring him and her down. By exposing them both to your friends, family and his family.
Especially to the job.

I would be getting papers ready to serve her AT her job, and quietly separating bank accounts.
In fact, you should have a lawyer draw up the papers, and have them ready when you get the proof. For as sure as God made lil green frogs, this woman has been doing him.

What he was doing, was rubbing it in your face in front of her. He was looking for you to go on and on about how faithful she and you have been to each other. You know, just a lil extra kick for their next lil party.
You screwed that up for them, so she's mad, and scared now.
If you got mad from him just asking, she think you will go nuke if you find anything. She is going all out, even so far as to have you seeing a shrink.

We had another poster a while back who wife had him doing that.
THEN,,, he came here,,,, listened, learned, and did what was advised...
Guess what?? Busted her good !!!
Can you imagine a wife so sleezy, she would have her husband seeing a shrink so she could keep on bedding another guy???

My man we have heard it all here. That's why we responding like we are. She's following the cheaters script to a tee as they say.
And that's why I wrote the above. Same script different players.

If forgot,, sorry brother you are here, but you in damn good hands for the task ahead.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

reddoor

Plan a romantic day out with your wife.

Get her in the car. You drive.

Straight to your local lie detector exam.

You only get a few questions. Review them in advance with the professional giving the exam.

Do not tell your wife until you are in the parking lot.

Often you will get a confession in the car so make sure you have a var in the car with fresh batteries ready to go.

Do not let her "not" take the test.

If she fails you will now know your hut was right.

If she passes then apologize and have a great day together as your way to apologize.

For some reason I do not think you will be apologizing.

Waywards love to make their BS's feel crazy.

Stay firm. Is her boss married?

HM


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## reddoor (Sep 29, 2014)

Thank you all for your replies. Not much time to write because she's here but something happened yesterday that sealed my feelings about what's going on. 

The OM called while we were having breakfast and she wouldn't answer the phone. The OM left a message but she wouldn't listen to it. She said she didn't want to talk to him or listen to the message because she was afraid I would get mad. Later we got into an argument and she screamed, "go ahead and listen to the message!" I went to pick up the phone (I had no plans of listening but wanted to see her reaction if I picked up her phone). And sure enough, she went off on me. "I can't believe you would do that! You don't trust me!" And she's right. I don't. To my knowledge she still hasn't listened to the message as of yet. I guess she's waiting for one of us not to be around but she simply refuses to listen to it for the first time with me in the room. And I'm the one being called names??

For the record the night the boss asked the inappropriate question my angry reply was, "WHAT? NO!!!" And that was literally all I said because my wife kicked me under the table then ran inside after the OM -- but swears she went in only to use the bathroom, not to talk to him about what he had said. For the longest time she said she did not think the question was inappropriate. Still, the focus has always been on my reaction. The OM has a GF but I don't think they're swingers. OM asked question with all four of us sitting there.

I'm afraid to tap phone or computer. Because she knows I can look up phone records I believe she is emailing him when she's home. When we were away on vacation I went to the store for something. She didn't hear me pull up and as soon as I walked through the door, she started clicking out of internet screens then got mad when I asked her about it - only to apologize and cuddle up to me when she realized just how bad it looked. 

She checks her phone email constantly and I've found that what mail she sends from her phone doesn't record on the email at a home (I have her email password). Basically, she can send emails from her phone all she want and delete them immediately and I would never know. So perhaps this is another thing people who are being cheated on can look for?

Other notables include "I don't remember..." when asked about certain things/events. Yes, I have blabbed to her about some things and yes, she became more secretive. There's a lot she doesn't know I know but what would it matter? I've presented cold hard evidence of her lying and she still denied. Wait - she did finally tell me the truth because there was really no way around it but her claim is that the lie didn't count because she was going to tell me the truth anyway. HAHAHAHAHA She seriously said that.

Not once has she sat down with me and talked to me about my fears. From day one it's been deny, deny, deny then accuses ME of cheating and yells at me for ruining the relationship. I'm beginning to believe my gut is right and that she will always try to make me out to be the bad guy on this. She is actually scared of me seeing a therapist and now I understand why!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

How old are the two of you and how long have you been married?

Do the two of you have any children? If so, what are their ages?

And, most importantly...

_What kind of phone does your wife use?_


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## reddoor (Sep 29, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> How old are the two of you and how long have you been married?
> 
> Do the two of you have any children? If so, what are their ages?
> 
> ...



Hi Gus

Married 10 years, no children (she can't conceive), she uses an Android (Samsung). Aren't there plenty of ways to find out if your phone has a bug on it? I'm willing to bet she's already checked. Not sure I can chance that unless there's a fool proof way!


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Accusing YOU of cheating and all the deleted emails and making you out to be the bad guy, etc.....this one's almost 100 percent that she's cheating.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Cubby said:


> Accusing YOU of cheating and all the deleted emails and making you out to be the bad guy, etc.....this one's almost 100 percent that she's cheating.


And the fact that he calls on a Sunday morning I mean WTF.:scratchhead:

Tell her you can't control her but you can control what you will or will not put up with.

Is this pos married?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

sounds like an unhealthy situation. 

No kids = bail. Or at least file for divorce and see her reaction.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You didn't have the courage to listen to the message in front of her. She thought you are a coward. She thinks her boss is strong and manly. You had the perfect opportunity and you chickened out. 

All you are displaying here is fear.

He's made you and your wife his b!tches. God knows what he makes her do.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> You didn't have the courage to listen to the message in front of her. She thought me you are a coward. She thinks her boss is strong and manly. You had the perfect opportunity and you chickened out.
> 
> All you are displaying here is fear.
> 
> He's made you and your wife his b!tches. God knows what he makes her do.


Hate to say it but I agree with this.
Time for you to call the shots.


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## reddoor (Sep 29, 2014)

Rugs said:


> If I had a husband and loved that husband very much, I would reassure him I was not cheating and answer any and all questions because I love him and have nothing to hide.
> 
> If my husband were bat-Sh!t crazy and accused me constantly of cheating with every man in the world and was being unreasonable by taking no evidence and turning it into evidence, I would suggest counseling and if it became unrelenting, it would be a deal breaker.


I agree. If my wife came to me with cheating concerns and I wasn't cheating, I would most likely do what I could to ease her discomfort. Now, every piece of "evidence" I have brought to her attention she has said I made up, I made it into whatever I wanted and that I was going to dig until I _forced_ her to do something to prove myself right. She says I need help, that I'm sick and all of that. So as a result she's saying I'm making sh!t up and it's quickly becoming a deal breaker and that I would have no one but myself to blame for sabotaging the marriage. Damned if I do...


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

You should have listened to the message! Played it back on speaker! OMG...Because I exercised the principle of respecting other people's privacy in general, I did not check my X2B's phone bills for years...His response? "It (she) was no secret! YOU failed to check the phone bill, it was always on the kitchen counter-top." Hello, it took me a while to recognize that my spouse is NOT other people. My response? "Oh so after I cook, clean and wash, pay the bills, take care of the children, go to work and pick them up, I SHOULD come home and be a POLICE DETECTIVE too? F*** you! I do not have time for this bullsh!t. What am I? A robot you program for exhaustion? Keeping me busily distracted while you are scheming with Pollyanna?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

reddoor said:


> I agree. If my wife came to me with cheating concerns and I wasn't cheating, I would most likely do what I could to ease her discomfort. Now, every piece of "evidence" I have brought to her attention she has said I made up, I made it into whatever I wanted and that I was going to dig until I _forced_ her to do something to prove myself right. She says I need help, that I'm sick and all of that. So as a result she's saying I'm making sh!t up and it's quickly becoming a deal breaker and that I would have no one but myself to blame for sabotaging the marriage. Damned if I do...


No more talking then hand her divorce papers and say "I'm sorry you feel this way"

Tell her if nothing is going on to look for another job because nothing is going on right?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Reddoor your wife is a pretty typical cheater, acting in the typical cheater fashion, blame shifting, lying and hiding the way cheaters typically do. She's following the cheaters script to the letter. 

Please listen and do what we tell you to do, and you will come out in a better plane. Your marriage may not survive, but you will end up in a better place.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Reddoor your wife is a pretty typical cheater, acting in the typical cheater fashion, blame shifting, lying and hiding the way cheaters typically do. She's following the cheaters script to the letter.
> 
> Please listen and do what we tell you to do, and you will come out in a better plane. Your marriage may not survive, but you will end up in a better place.


The crap she is pulling and no kids...
Time for an exit.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

reddoor said:


> Hi Gus
> 
> Married 10 years, no children (she can't conceive), she uses an Android (Samsung). Aren't there plenty of ways to find out if your phone has a bug on it? I'm willing to bet she's already checked. Not sure I can chance that unless there's a fool proof way!


Why are you so afraid to start taking steps that will almost certainly make your life better?


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## reddoor (Sep 29, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> You didn't have the courage to listen to the message in front of her. She thought you are a coward. She thinks her boss is strong and manly. You had the perfect opportunity and you chickened out.
> 
> All you are displaying here is fear.
> 
> He's made you and your wife his b!tches. God knows what he makes her do.


Last time a very similar situation happened she grabbed the phone out of my hand and screamed, "This is MY phone! You have no right..." (even though she was saying, "go ahead, check it!" So, I've actually done it before but by the time it happened last night I was worn down and didn't fvcking care what the message said. She's going to do what she's going to do and no matter what, she's going to deny everything, always.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

P.S. What are you jealous of? A gaslighter, someone messing with your mind? Don't confuse jealousy with being sick and tired of disrespect. Stand up for yourself man! Dealing with a cheater requires a PhD in Gumption. It's gonna boil down to who pays for her phone bill.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Relax Reddoor,

Act like everything is fine. Drop the drama and accusations. Put her mind at ease so she let's her guard down. That could take some time; because when you do soft confronts she can gas light you and take more precautions - and she's been doing that big time.

Then go get your evidence. If she's cheating, and she likely is, you can catch her; if you'll just follow the advice here. Do some research on your own as well. In this age of tech, it's not that difficult if you are patient, stealthy, and methodical.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

reddoor said:


> Last time a very similar situation happened she grabbed the phone out of my hand and screamed, "This is MY phone! You have no right..." (even though she was saying, "go ahead, check it!" So, I've actually done it before but by the time it happened last night I was worn down and didn't fvcking care what the message said. *She's going to do what she's going to do and no matter what, she's going to deny everything, always.*


OK... _then divorce her_. You've got no kids and have been married for only 10 years, which means that any alimony/spousal support that you'll have to pay (if any) will be minimal. If you'd been married for 5 - 10 years longer, it would be *PERMANENT*. Get the Hell out before you cross that threshold!!!

Does infidelity matter w/ respect to divorce (division of assets, whether or not alimony is awarded, etc) where you live? If not, then just file for divorce and put this sham of a marriage behind you. If, however, it does...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Cheating or no, if I felt like I couldn't trust my wife I would be planning my exit. I couldn't live with that kind of anxiety.

When you are in a marriage you basically have to trust your spouse with your life. If you feel you can't trust them then you are in a bad relationship.

Even if she isn't cheating (90% chance she is) I think you have a valid reason to call it quits. She shouldn't be treating you like this.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

reddoor said:


> I have accused my wife of cheating with her boss. It all began with the boss asking us at a party if we ever had sex outside of our marriage and *I* was the one who got in trouble for angrily reacting to the question.
> 
> I can't really get into all of the details here because I'm afraid she will know it's me, but I can say that I've found too many "coincidences" for something not to have occurred between her and the OM. (I can say this includes caught lying, hiding soiled underwear, deleting texts from OM, etc) My gut feels so strongly about this. I've been jealous before (she admits she is a flirt and guys openly flirt with her even when I'm standing right there with her!) but I've never felt this kind of feeling that has consumed me and perhaps have ruined my marriage.
> 
> ...


If you want to know for sure drop a VAR in the car or in a room she talks on the phone.

Also spy app or getting into social media accounts.

Your answer will come quickly.

It took me one day to find out there was definately something more than I thought.

And three days to put the picture together.

When they use us by cheating us, many times they are also hating us and underminding us to make themselves look better in comparison. The nature of the beast.

Some men get cheated on for being good man, having integrity, being loyal and loving.

Others get cheated on for being Alpha, having success in the world, influence.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

You can't be afraid to monitor her OP. You have every reason to do so. If she catches your attempt, then she catches it; you tell her why and you don't apologize for it. I can't imagine that even if she did, you'd be much worse off than you are now.

But she won't catch you if you play it smart.


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## 5Creed (May 29, 2011)

reddoor said:


> I agree. If my wife came to me with cheating concerns and I wasn't cheating, I would most likely do what I could to ease her discomfort. *Now, every piece of "evidence" I have brought to her attention she has said I made up, I made it into whatever I wanted and that I was going to dig until I forced her to do something to prove myself right.* She says I need help, that I'm sick and all of that. So as a result she's saying I'm making sh!t up and it's quickly becoming a deal breaker and that I would have no one but myself to blame for sabotaging the marriage. Damned if I do...


Ummm...yeah/no. Any cheating she has done or is thinking about in the future is totally on her. This is laughable what she says~that someone "forces" her to cheat-and that someone is her husband. BS. It seems she is going to find any reason she can, so when she is found out she can say that she had no responsibility for it. She can get her divorce and then do whatever the hell she wants to after that.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Keep in mind that the only person you need to prove anything to is yourself. Have you seen enough yet?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Look. here's what you do. get a lawyer, file and hand her the papers and tell that you wont live like this any more with a woman that lies to you and can't be honest. Tell her that if she wants the marriage to work then set up an appointment for a polygraph test and let her know that she can prove it that way and if she gives you a hard time then tell her to sign the papers and tell her to get a lawyer.

Sometimes a person need to be kick started to get them to move off square one but you don't have to take this crap off of her. Hand her the papers and put the ball in her court. her actions will tell you if she really wants the marriage to work. 

You can always call the divorce off. But at least she'll see that your up to your ears with her BS and your not taking it any longer.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

reddoor said:


> Last time a very similar situation happened she grabbed the phone out of my hand and screamed, "This is MY phone! You have no right..." (even though she was saying, "go ahead, check it!" So, I've actually done it before but by the time it happened last night I was worn down and didn't fvcking care what the message said. She's going to do what she's going to do and no matter what, she's going to deny everything, always.


If there was nothing going on she should be a open book for you to see. She is not. If one can not share with the spouse then the activity is something that they should not be doing.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

reddoor said:


> Now, every piece of "evidence" I have brought to her attention she has said I made up, I made it into whatever I wanted and that I was going to dig until I _forced_ her to do something to prove myself right. She says I need help, that I'm sick and all of that. So as a result she's saying I'm making sh!t up and it's quickly becoming a deal breaker and that I would have no one but myself to blame for sabotaging the marriage. Damned if I do...


Red,
Let's just say there is no cheating going on and she does eventually have an A because you "forced" her to do something to prove you right. Would you want to be married to someone that would actually do that? 

You say she openly flirts in front of you. That's a big boundry issue. I think because you haven't set a boundry on her openly flirting she has little to any respect for you. 

She is also rewriting history too. She's spinning her tale of how you have caused all these problems in the marriage so if you do divorce her she can point to her version of events to try to save face since she's the one cheating, lying and disrespecting you. 

Her cheating on you is bad enough but she is also somewhat narcissistic telling you "you're sick and need help". My WW would tell me constantly how I mistreated her family, her friends, even my own family. I almost started believing that crap. I finally asked those she accused me of mistreating if in fact I did all she had accused me of doing. They would look at me with such disbelief and ask where I got that notion from. When she starts that stuff with me now I just look her straight in the eye and tell her that crap doesn't work anymore. Really pisses her off. I took that away from her.

Red, you're only "damned if you do" if you continue to take this crap from her.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Red door

"Damned if I do" you said that.

But you will be damning yourself if you don't.

"What,,, you don't believe me?" That is what she said.

The appropriate response is "No,, I only believe in myself!"

And of course she does not want you to go to terapy.

Because you would come to the realization with the help of your therapist that you are not crazy and your gut instinct is right.

Why not surprise your wife with a secret date with a polygraph test.

Shock her.

You will be able to confirm the truth whether she takes the test or not.

HM


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

tom67 said:


> And the fact that he calls on a Sunday morning I mean WTF.:scratchhead:
> 
> Tell her you can't control her but you can control what you will or will not put up with.
> 
> Is this pos married?


She may have told him that she's separated or divorced. That would explain the strange comments made in front of the OP. The OM is probably married and to keep his wife from suspecting something at a company affair, told the WW that she should bring a date.

On the other hand she may have already bailed on the marriage and is waiting for the OM to free himself up.

She may also be in for a big disappointment.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> OK... _then divorce her_. You've got no kids and have been married for only 10 years, which means that any alimony/spousal support that you'll have to pay (if any) will be minimal. If you'd been married for 5 - 10 years longer, it would be *PERMANENT*. Get the Hell out before you cross that threshold!!!
> 
> Does infidelity matter w/ respect to divorce (division of assets, whether or not alimony is awarded, etc) where you live? If not, then just file for divorce and put this sham of a marriage behind you. If, however, it does...
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


Gus is absolutely right. The OP does not have to prove a thing. She knows what she's done. All the OP has to do is file for divorce. That will give him the upper hand. If she asks why, just tell her that it is none of her business -- just sign the forms and be quiet.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Her boss only wants her for her a$$. If wanted more she would already be gone. You have to live like this until you man up and do the right thing.

Wishing it wasn't so is useless. If she had nothing to hide she would just laugh and hand you the phone or play the messages for you. He doesn't want all of her and she wants you to pay bills. 

Is this a company with an HR dept?

How's your sex life changed since she started working for this guy?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

reddoor said:


> I agree. If my wife came to me with cheating concerns and I wasn't cheating, I would most likely do what I could to ease her discomfort. Now, every piece of "evidence" I have brought to her attention she has said I made up, I made it into whatever I wanted and that I was going to dig until I _forced_ her to do something to prove myself right. She says I need help, that I'm sick and all of that. So as a result she's saying I'm making sh!t up and it's quickly becoming a deal breaker and that I would have no one but myself to blame for sabotaging the marriage. Damned if I do...



Divorce her. Best case you are wrong and she doesn't give a **** how you feel. Worst case you are right. Does it really matter which it is?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: What If I'm Wrong?*



Acoa said:


> Divorce her. Best case you are wrong and she doesn't give a **** how you feel. Worst case you are right. Does it really matter which it is?


This. OP, read it three times. You need nothing more than this.

ETA: And if you need some form of credibility for this advice, take an hour or two and read his threads.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

reddoor said:


> She's going to do what she's going to do and no matter what, she's going to deny everything, always.


Red, when are you going to quit rolling over and playing dead? Face it my man, you're weak. Ain't no wonder she leading you around with your tail between your legs. 
Few of us would even put up with a woman talking to us like that, let alone chasing after another guy. You had the damn phone in your hand and scared sh-tless to even listen to it. Don't give us crap about you didn't care what the message said. If that were true you wouldn't be here belly aching about her boss saying anything he wants and your old lady daring you to even act like you don't like it. Go to the doctor and get a shot and prescriptions for testosterone. (I ain't joking. Its a recommendation)


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

The real question is --- What If You Are Right...

Read MMSLP. The book will explain you.
See a lawyer. 

Have a plan

Gather evidence and expose

Go dark. Do the 180

Read MMSLP again

Once evidence is adequate, expose wife and him to his GF all relatives. Cheaterville dot com with honest provable words. If they are swingers, the GF will still be embarrassed by it all (maybe). 

You confuse privacy with secrecy. Privacy is closing the bathroom door. There is no secrecy is marriage. Accounts, passwords, cellphones. Feel free to check the fone. Maybe she's dumb enough or relaxed enough to forget to erase.

She owns her cheating, you own your response. 

This is chess not checkers.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Acoa said:


> Divorce her. Best case you are wrong and she doesn't give a **** how you feel. Worst case you are right. Does it really matter which it is?


^This guy knows what's up.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

You have to find out either way.
But the fact is she is doing an awful lot of avoidant and seemingly cheating behaviors.

This warrants investigation.
It will surface very quickly once you start looking.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

if she is going to do what she is going to do then ditch her, if she wont show you facebook conversations or let you hear voice mails and emails then she is hiding it i've been there and experienced the anger for asking, tha's all i'm saying so i dont thread hijack


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Q tip said:


> The real question is --- What If You Are Right...
> 
> Read MMSLP. The book will explain you.
> See a lawyer.
> ...


This^^^
Plus get tested for STDs.
I don't mean to be harsh but think about this...
If you don't respect yourself who will?
Hope you come back later and read all the posts.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

reddoor said:


> Last time a very similar situation happened she grabbed the phone out of my hand and screamed, "This is MY phone! You have no right..." (even though she was saying, "go ahead, check it!" So, I've actually done it before but by the time it happened last night I was worn down and didn't fvcking care what the message said. She's going to do what she's going to do and no matter what, she's going to deny everything, always.


Reddoor, You type like random thoughts are jumping in and out of your head.. Its like you're in a rush to tell someone something and end up not making sense because you're so rushed.. 

When your posting.. Stick to at timeline.. 

You're admitting you babbled some stuff to your wife ? What stuff ? 

You were too tired to look at her phone to hear the message ?.. 

Simple question

What exactly are you looking for here ? Divorce or reconciliation ?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IIWY, I'd be addressing the issue of you being her doormat before I'd worry about the cheating. Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? Get it today. And let her see you reading it.

http://www.drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy.html

Excerpt:


> In the early 90s I had a crisis. I was about two years into my second marriage. I thought I had found the woman of my dreams. Yet I was frequently frustrated and resentful toward the woman I loved.
> I did everything I could to make her happy. I tried to solve her problems. I tried to be a good father to her children. I tried to be a better man than the other men in her past. I tried to be the best lover she had ever had. I put her needs ahead of mine.
> 
> In spite of everything I did for her, it never seemed enough. I could never seem to make her happy. She was frequently moody and would lash out at me, seemingly without provocation. Our sex life sucked.
> ...


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

OP, here's the deal. 1. The only person in denial is you. You are giving us "evidence" of her cheating, but none of it will stand much scrutiny. Besides who the f**k checks their wife's panties? 
IDK whether or not your wife is cheating, but everybody here seems to think so , so are you going to be dictated to by your wife or by a bunch of anonymous posters? I've got an idea, how about manning up and deciding for yourself? Your wife's behavior is suspicious , yes, but it isn't really the problem is it? What is your problem is that you are in a dysfunctional marriage and neither of you have the guts to pull the plug. If, instead of talking about cheating, you were talking about finances, or something else, would her angry outbursts be any more tolerable? You need to stand up for yourself, nobody else is gonna.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BTW, all of this childish snooping is irrelevant. You already have enough reason to D. If I'm ever in a relationship where I have to look through the dirty clothes and check her dirty panties, to see if she's cheating, ONE of us is going to be out the door, and it isn't going to be me.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> BTW, all of this childish snooping is irrelevant. You already have enough reason to D. If I'm ever in a relationship where I have to look through the dirty clothes and check her dirty panties, to see if she's cheating, ONE of us is going to be out the door, and it isn't going to be me.


In this case I agree.
The only thing he has to find out if this pos is married or has a gf other than that why should he waste his time.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

reddoor said:


> I have accused my wife of cheating with her boss. It all began with the boss asking us at a party if we ever had sex outside of our marriage and *I* was the one who got in trouble for angrily reacting to the question.


Even if you are not wrong, she is out of line to admonish you for an obviously inappropriate question. Red flag #1

The rest of your story, getting mad at you, deleting texts from OM, caught lying.....red flags galore.

I highly doubt you are wrong. But in the off chance that you are, at the very least, your wife is disrespectful and not conducting herself in the manner of a trustworthy spouse.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

reddoor said:


> I agree. If my wife came to me with cheating concerns and I wasn't cheating, I would most likely do what I could to ease her discomfort. Now, every piece of "evidence" I have brought to her attention she has said I made up, I made it into whatever I wanted and that I was going to dig until I _forced_ her to do something to prove myself right. She says I need help, that I'm sick and all of that. So as a result she's saying I'm making sh!t up and it's quickly becoming a deal breaker and that I would have no one but myself to blame for sabotaging the marriage. Damned if I do...


Do you actually enjoy being married to her? Even if she isn't cheating, (pretty sure she is, she sounds like all the other ones on here) what kind of marriage do you have?


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

reddoor said:


> Thank you all for your replies. Not much time to write because she's here but something happened yesterday that sealed my feelings about what's going on.
> 
> The OM called while we were having breakfast and she wouldn't answer the phone. The OM left a message but she wouldn't listen to it. She said she didn't want to talk to him or listen to the message because she was afraid I would get mad. Later we got into an argument and she screamed, "go ahead and listen to the message!" I went to pick up the phone (I had no plans of listening but wanted to see her reaction if I picked up her phone). And sure enough, she went off on me. "I can't believe you would do that! You don't trust me!" And she's right. I don't. To my knowledge she still hasn't listened to the message as of yet. I guess she's waiting for one of us not to be around but she simply refuses to listen to it for the first time with me in the room. And I'm the one being called names??
> 
> ...


You have enough proof. If you really want to seal the deal buy a VAR and put it in her car.

I did this and even when i confronted my wife, i heard all the same things you are hearing, got called names, jelous, possesive, she went into bit...ch mode.

Anyway she denied denied denied until i pulled out the VAR and she had to listen to it.

You are in the same boat.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

STOP accusing her until you have CONCRETE evidence. If she is cheating, the only thing you're doing is giving her the heads up that she and her affair partner(s) need to be more careful about getting caught. Although from what you've said it's probably too late to do anything about that.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Others have already mentioned it....polygraph.

Tell her that her lying and deceptive behavior has pushed the M to this point.

You no longer trust her, and rightfully so after the way she has behaved.

Tell her you do not trust her, and there are enough lies and shady behavior that you now are sure she has cheated with this POS.

Tell her that the only way you will continue the M is with the truth....and the only way you will believe her is if she takes and passes a poly.

Tell her if she wants any chance to fix the M, she better either pass that poly or confess the truth beforehand, cause if she takes it and fails, then you will file for D instantly....and refusing to take it will also mean she is guilty in your eyes and you will file.

She needs to see that her continued crappy behavior will result in her losing her life as she knows it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> Others have already mentioned it....polygraph.
> 
> Tell her that her lying and deceptive behavior has pushed the M to this point.
> 
> ...


Red the time is now.
Do it!
You will thank us.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

From what he's said about her I doubt she'd agree to one.


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## reddoor (Sep 29, 2014)

2 VARs in place. Will let you know what happens soon! Thanks everyone!


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

reddoor said:


> 2 VARs in place. Will let you know what happens soon! Thanks everyone!


Just brace yourself for what you might hear. In fact, it may be a good idea to have a trusted friend listen to it for you because once you hear it, it can't be unheard.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

About the VARs. Never, ever let her know where you got any info related to it. Ever. Never mention VAR. Ever. Your source must never be revealed.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Q tip said:


> About the VARs. Never, ever let her know where you got any info related to it. Ever. Never mention VAR. Ever. Your source must never be revealed.


I hope he's got better sense. If he doesn't, God help him.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Any update with the Vars?


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Sports Fan said:


> Any update with the Vars?


Never a good sign when the VAR's are in place and the OP goes dark after 2 weeks

55


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