# Mywife posted this on reddit few months back and I found out, what are my option



## hurt8288

I found out that my wife had an emotional affair with this guy [36 M] at work. She is saying it's over but I am not so sure, she might do this again anyway. what should I do?
Although she says its sexless we had sex at least once in two week until December when this all started.
Since December my gut told me something is off with her. But I accidentally looked at her iPad history and she searched "what it means if a guys kisses you on the neck". So I started looking at her emails, then I found this post and few other emails.
She promises never to do this again and be the wife I would like her to be.
What are my options?
Here is the text she posted (I can't link the post because she has deleted it since then): "At the work Christmas party last year, a married male co*worker (also a father of two young kids) told me he
was attracted to me. That, in another life we’d be amazing together. Also that he thought I was hot and
amazing to be with! He said that he walks past my office just to see me, and would be disappointed when I’m
not there. We work together but not in the same department, and have always had a great working
relationship. He’s a nice guy. We’ve always talked about real stuff like family, jobs, growing up and have
plenty in common, which is why I thought we had a good friendship. So, I just thought this night was him
being a little drunk and sweet.
As the night went on, people left, more alcohol was consumed, we danced as a group and he began to get
physical (putting his arm around me, holding hands, touching my leg, grabbing my butt etc.), I reciprocated
but it didn’t go any further. At the time the attention felt good, but the next day I felt guilty and confused.
When I spoke to him, he apologised and put it down to being drunk. However, he did admit to finding me
attractive and felt that there was immense chemistry between the two of us. I hadn’t thought about it until
this point. It was after he told me his feelings, that like a flick of a light switch, I began to feel attraction
towards him.
I’ve never felt this for anyone else, other my husband (SO) who I met when I was 17, I'm now 27. I’ve been
married for 8.5 years. My SO is amazing and means the world to me. We’ve been through so much
together, including fighting the big C. The past few years have been the most difficult as he’s been so distant
and unresponsive to anything I try to do or suggest to improve the situation. I have a v. high sex drive, which
for years he convinced me was abnormal for a woman. We basically have what they call ‘a sexless
marriage’. Not only that, but it also lacks any kind of affection because he is “not the affectionate type”.
Before this, I always believed that our marriage was true to our vows ‘in sickness and in health. For richer or
poorer, forever and ever’, but I’m really struggling! I‘m not using this to defend my attraction to my co- worker, as I know it is wrong. But what is right anymore!
I went away for three weeks with my husband, but didn’t stop thinking about CW. Facebook turned into my
addiction, until recently when I unfriended him, for my own sanity! When I came back, CW told me that one
night he’d called out my name several times whilst sleeping, his wife kicked him out of bed and looked
through his phone (text and emails). She found some work emails, which were mostly professional with a
little innocent banter. At that time, that’s all our relationship was. Well, from my side anyway!
We agreed that although they were strong, we didn’t want to act upon our feelings, but also that it would be
difficult to avoid each other as we need to work together. So we’ve been joking and talking as usual, but also
discussing our feelings. There have been a few times when we completely avoid each other, but the majority
of the time we would find any excuse to see each other. My ears are now attuned to his foot steps and he
cannot walk past my office without looking in to get my eye contact. Also that being around each other
creates a warm feeling inside. We’ve both admitted to wanting to take things further, but can’t because of
family and we value our friendship. Since that night we’ve never made physical contact and we always meet
in my office, which is surrounded by glass windows or in areas where we can be seen by others.
I miss him when he’s not around as he brighten up the day, and is a great person to talk to amongst other
colleagues/ friends that sound like records stuck on repeat. We haven’t seen much of each other over the
past few weeks. I knew the time would come when things would change and the distance kicks in. We’re
only human after all!
I spoke to him today about the distance and he said that he needed some space to think things through.
Which I understand, but for me the distance makes me want him more and it's the talking about real stuff
(feelings, each other, jobs, work,, hobbies etc) that has really helped reduce these feelings, enabling me to
function normally rather than wanting to jump on him and tear off his clothes.
I’m sure there’ll be people out there who’ll judge me and leave nasty comments, but please understand my
intentions before you do so. I’m looking for advice on how to keep a friendship and turn these feelings into
something positive. I was once the naïve person to judge those who’ve had affairs, but now I’ve experienced
these feelings, I realise how hard they are to overcome.
Has anyone else experienced this? Is there away that we can both stay friends, talk like we normally do,
whilst this attraction fades? Ignoring him at work would not be possible, and as he is one of my most
valuable friends at work I really do not want that to be the case. I feel at a loss, and I know he is having great
difficulty in dealing with it too. I just want to be able to go to him with a solution that helps us both move
forward. Can anyone offer a solution? I never had any intention of feeling this way towards him. I never saw
him this way before and have worked with him for almost three years.
tldr; : Mutual attraction with co*worker, keep friendship, overcome attraction, lust, flirting, best solution to
deal with attraction, sexless marriage, lack of affection."
Sorry about the wall of text.
tl;dr: Found out my wife had an emotional affair, what should I do?


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## tom67

You should tell his wife and exchange info.
If you don't have any kids you should file for divorce to show her you are more than willing to move on then watch her actions not her words.


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## tom67

Another thing if it's been sexless since December, she is more than likely getting it elsewhere.
Sorry man.


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## hurt8288

my wife is not willing to disclose who it is. But I am 99% sure who it is.


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## hurt8288

we still had sex 4-5 times (i initiated it) but she said she is not in to sex that much anymore.. which was a total lie.


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## tom67

hurt8288 said:


> my wife is not willing to disclose who it is. But I am 99% sure who it is.


Put a voice activated recorder in her car then you will be sure.


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## hurt8288

tom67 said:


> Put a voice activated recorder in her car then you will be sure.


she said she finished it though, since end of march. she also moved jobs.


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## tom67

hurt8288 said:


> she said she finished it though, since end of march. she also moved jobs.


So what?
It may be another man/men.
You need info to know what you are up against.


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## See_Listen_Love

I think you have had a very good early warning system message. You know how she thinks and what she wants. The question is now what do you want, do you also want to be affectionate and sexual? If not then the marriage will come to an end, regardless of her having another EA or not. Do not let it take years for one of you to come to a conclusion. 

Communicate about it with her. Maybe seek help for yourself. Inform about affection and sex drive, clearly there is a misfit hapening in your marriage.

I would be glad if I were you that you have a chance of reconciliation.


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## hurt8288

See_Listen_Love said:


> I think you have had a very good early warning system message. You know how she thinks and what she wants. The question is now what do you want, do you also want to be affectionate and sexual? If not then the marriage will come to an end, regardless of her having another EA or not. Do not let it take years for one of you to come to a conclusion.
> 
> Communicate about it with her. Maybe seek help for yourself. Inform about affection and sex drive, clearly there is a misfit hapening in your marriage.
> 
> I would be glad if I were you that you have a chance of reconciliation.


I am worried that this would make our already strained relationship even worse.


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## Yeswecan

hurt8288 said:


> I am worried that this would make our already strained relationship even worse.


Certainly won't make it better. Rug sweeping will make it worse as well.


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## Marduk

You know that you should boot her out the door, right?

That is betrayal on a scale that would be very hard to come back from.

Why haven't you done that?


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## hurt8288

marduk said:


> You know that you should boot her out the door, right?
> 
> That is betrayal on a scale that would be very hard to come back from.
> 
> Why haven't you done that?


I feel like it's partly my fault. all the warning signs were there..


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## Ol'Pal

hurt8288 said:


> I feel like it's partly my fault. all the warning signs were there..


Whoa!! This is not your fault!! 

This is 100% on your wife. These were her decisions. 


At the chance of being a hypocrite, It's time to walk.


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## Palodyne

First of all, there can be no secrets from here on out, or your entire marriage moving forward will be built on a lie. She still has feelings for this guy. By not telling you who he is she is still PROTECTING him!! Which means she is putting him ahead of you and your marriage. Even in her own words, he was the one that backed off, which left her wanting to jump on him and rip off his clothes. 

You wonder will this happen again? YES, if he gives her a wink and a nod she will be right back in play. And if you don't really know who it is, then you can't really be sure they are not still in contact. Also if she won't tell you his name, what else is she leaving out? By her own words, she was totally ready for a physical affair. All she has confessed to is what you already know. I think there is much more to this. In December, she lets him feel her leg, squeeze her ass, kiss her neck, and she reciprocated. That sounds pretty physical to me. 

You need to sit her down, and tell her she has to tell you everything, including his name. Get her phone and ipad and run recovery software on it to get back deleted texts. ( Don't let her know you are doing this) Put a VAR in her car, without her knowledge. If she refuses to tell you anything, then you have larger problems and should look into seeing a lawyer to get the facts about divorce in your location. If she tells you everything, write it down in case her story changes in future conversations, then a lie detector test may be in order.

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. But brother, it doesn't sound like your wife is over this guy, and that is going to be a problem.


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## hurt8288

Palodyne said:


> First of all, there can be no secrets from here on out, or your entire marriage moving forward will be built on a lie. She still has feelings for this guy. By not telling you who he is she is still PROTECTING him!! Which means she is putting him ahead of you and your marriage. Even in her own words, he was the one that backed off, which left her wanting to jump on him and rip off his clothes.
> 
> You wonder will this happen again? YES, if he gives her a wink and a nod she will be right back in play. And if you don't really know who it is, then you can't really be sure they are not still in contact. Also if she won't tell you his name, what else is she leaving out? By her own words, she was totally ready for a physical affair. All she has confessed to is what you already know. I think there is much more to this. In December, she lets him feel her leg, squeeze her ass, kiss her neck, and she reciprocated. That sounds pretty physical to me.
> 
> You need to sit her down, and tell her she has to tell you everything, including his name. Get her phone and ipad and run recovery software on it to get back deleted texts. ( Don't let her know you are doing this) Put a VAR in her car, without her knowledge. If she refuses to tell you anything, then you have larger problems and should look into seeing a lawyer to get the facts about divorce in your location. If she tells you everything, write it down in case her story changes in future conversations, then a lie detector test may be in order.
> 
> I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. But brother, it doesn't sound like your wife is over this guy, and that is going to be a problem.


Thanks very much for your advice. That's the bit I don't get. If I was in the same situation and I care about my marriage I would own up to everything and I wouldn't care to mention the names etc.


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## Marduk

hurt8288 said:


> I feel like it's partly my fault. all the warning signs were there..


You are partly to blame for her not being happy.

You are not to blame for her cheating on you.

Lots of unhappy people don't cheat. Lots of happy people do cheat. These things are not always related, and it sounds like your wife just got horny for another guy. Let him grope her, and fantasizes about him to this day.

Call your lawyer. Make her leave the bedroom. Draw up papers and ask her to sign them. Tell a friend or family member who's close to you what happened so you have their support.

"Wife, I know you're lusting after this guy. I know you let him grope you, or more. I know you want to **** him to this day. I know you don't give a **** about your marriage vows. And I know you're not worth my commitment to you. Be happy! Now you can go **** him however much you want. Oh, I've told his wife, too, so he's probably free to **** you, too. There's the door, use it."

If she is sad and remorseful and accepts accountability... And works at it with no commitment from you... Maybe you can reconcile.

But I don't think so.


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## Marduk

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks very much for your advice. That's the bit I don't get. If I was in the same situation and I care about my marriage I would own up to everything and I wouldn't care to mention the names etc.


She doesn't care about you or her marriage right now, and she lacks accountability to own up to it.

This is who you're married to. There's an easy solution to that.


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## hurt8288

marduk said:


> You are partly to blame for her not being happy.
> 
> You are not to blame for her cheating on you.
> 
> Lots of unhappy people don't cheat. Lots of happy people do cheat. These things are not always related, and it sounds like your wife just got horny for another guy. Let him grope her, and fantasizes about him to this day.
> 
> Call your lawyer. Make her leave the bedroom. Draw up papers and ask her to sign them. Tell a friend or family member who's close to you what happened so you have their support.
> 
> "Wife, I know you're lusting after this guy. I know you let him grope you, or more. I know you want to **** him to this day. I know you don't give a **** about your marriage vows. And I know you're not worth my commitment to you. Be happy! Now you can go **** him however much you want. Oh, I've told his wife, too, so he's probably free to **** you, too. There's the door, use it."
> 
> If she is sad and remorseful and accepts accountability... And works at it with no commitment from you... Maybe you can reconcile.
> 
> But I don't think so.


Thanks .. I guess so


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## rich84

You have a sexual/intimacy mismatch. You think sex once or twice in two weeks is sufficient, but this is agony for her if she is high drive. It appears she attempted to shut down her needs somewhat over the years in order to cope, but this OM woke her up. There is no coming back from this for her. And now you've been disrespected with this EA (likely PA). For as long as she has these unmet needs, she will be vulnerable and it appears that she has poor boundaries. You both should just split to pursue a more compatible relationship. I feel bad for you both. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 6301

hurt8288 said:


> my wife is not willing to disclose who it is. But I am 99% sure who it is.


 If she's sincere and really wants the marriage to work and means that she'll be the wife you want then there is no secrets and right now she refuses to tell you who this guy is should tell you that she's punking you. 

If it's me, I tell her that if she isn't willing to be fully truthful then go live someplace else because she isn't ready to let go of the guy and it doesn't matter if your 99% sure who it is. She has to be the one to fess up and until she does, then your marriage is headed for the rocks, if it isn't already.

Don't let her get away with it. She's protecting him and leaving you hang out to dry.


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## rich84

Also if she posted this several months ago and you two aren't having sex... Well, one of you isn't anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

I am glad you posted on here my friend. All is not lost man. What is your family situation, kids, house mortgage, financial situation? 

Here are some primers. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/300474-wife-no-longer-interested-me-sex.html
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/79609-successful-rugsweep.html
SurvivingInfidelity.com - Thought we had a good marriage


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## hurt8288

sokillme said:


> I am glad you posted on here my friend. All is not lost man. What is your family situation, kids, house mortgage, financial situation?
> 
> Here are some primers.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/300474-wife-no-longer-interested-me-sex.html
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/79609-successful-rugsweep.html
> SurvivingInfidelity.com - Thought we had a good marriage


Thanks man. We bought a house together last year. So we have a mortgage and dog that we both love.


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## straightshooter

Hurt,

So your wife enters into an EA with another man at work, and has decided to refuse to tell you who it is so that she can still maintain this relationship and go PA if she wants to.

Now we can speculate on what is in her head, but we can offer advice on what you can do to find out. She is getting away with this for one reason, and that is that YOU are allowing her to.

So the advice to you is to see an attorney, find out your rights, and then tell her she has two choices
(1) tell you who it is and then you tell his wife, and that there is no more "friend" communication' with him.
(2) she takes a polygraph and the first two questions are
(a) has she had ex with him
(b) is she communicating with him on any hidden apps or other electronic means

if she refuses both of those, you present her with divorce papers ( you can stop it any time you want to).

To date, you are in limbo and she is keeping her options open.


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## Yeswecan

hurt8288 said:


> I feel like it's partly my fault. all the warning signs were there..


Nope. The affair is all your W. Your W poor choice.


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## See_Listen_Love

Too much enforcing a divorce situation here i.m.h.o.

I would say she knows she was wrong and deserves a chance. OP also deserves a chance. Divorce is giving a lot of pain for everybody and investing a smaller part of that pain can save the relation now.


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## snerg

marduk said:


> You are partly to blame for her not being happy.
> 
> You are not to blame for her cheating on you.
> 
> Lots of unhappy people don't cheat. Lots of happy people do cheat. These things are not always related, and it sounds like your wife just got horny for another guy. Let him grope her, and fantasizes about him to this day.
> 
> Call your lawyer. Make her leave the bedroom. Draw up papers and ask her to sign them. Tell a friend or family member who's close to you what happened so you have their support.
> 
> "Wife, I know you're lusting after this guy. I know you let him grope you, or more. I know you want to **** him to this day. I know you don't give a **** about your marriage vows. And I know you're not worth my commitment to you. Be happy! Now you can go **** him however much you want. Oh, I've told his wife, too, so he's probably free to **** you, too. There's the door, use it."
> 
> If she is sad and remorseful and accepts accountability... And works at it with no commitment from you... Maybe you can reconcile.
> 
> But I don't think so.


All QFT!!

Only thing I would add to this

"don't let the door hit you too hard on your way out"


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## sokillme

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks very much for your advice. That's the bit I don't get. If I was in the same situation and I care about my marriage I would own up to everything and I wouldn't care to mention the names etc.


Yeah you would, but would you cheat? Anyway this means there is more to this story then you know.


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## sokillme

rich84 said:


> You have a sexual/intimacy mismatch. You think sex once or twice in two weeks is sufficient, but this is agony for her if she is high drive. It appears she attempted to shut down her needs somewhat over the years in order to cope, but this OM woke her up. There is no coming back from this for her. And now you've been disrespected with this EA (likely PA). For as long as she has these unmet needs, she will be vulnerable and it appears that she has poor boundaries. You both should just split to pursue a more compatible relationship. I feel bad for you both.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Or she could just be bored and stupid. Lets now make it out to be that she is Jenna Jamison just yet.


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## Marduk

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks .. I guess so


You're on the ropes getting emotionally pummelled. I get it.

The solution to being on the ropes isn't to get better at taking a punch and trying to smile.

It's to duck and weave and come out swinging.

Your wife thinks you are weak and she deserves to have two guys. If she's not having sex with you, she's having sex with someone else.

You will need to get strong, and fast, and act. Or you might as well just get used to the idea of being in a one-sided open marriage.


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## hurt8288

marduk said:


> You're on the ropes getting emotionally pummelled. I get it.
> 
> The solution to being on the ropes isn't to get better at taking a punch and trying to smile.
> 
> It's to duck and weave and come out swinging.
> 
> Your wife thinks you are weak and she deserves to have two guys. If she's not having sex with you, she's having sex with someone else.
> 
> You will need to get strong, and fast, and act. Or you might as well just get used to the idea of being in a one-sided open marriage.



thanks .. at the moment my stance is that she needs to convince me not to divorce. otherwise i am going ahead with it.


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## sokillme

See_Listen_Love said:


> Too much enforcing a divorce situation here i.m.h.o.
> 
> I would say she knows she was wrong and deserves a chance. OP also deserves a chance. Divorce is giving a lot of pain for everybody and investing a smaller part of that pain can save the relation now.


OP should not get ahead of himself, I agree with threatening divorce because it is a good consequence but he needs to get the lay of the land before he can make and strategic decisions. He should get the truth of what really happened. If it really was just lust and some groping and then she stopped, maybe there is a chance. She needs consequences though, and he needs to find out the truth.

My thing would be printing out online divorce papers and this post he found. I would would write on the papers "we will talk about this when I get back, you have one chance to tell me the truth, then we can decide if we should save our marriage". I would leave and take the dog and go NC (really NC) for a month. This would force her hand if the relationship has a shot she will be devastated. If not better to learn that now then wast time.

Might want to do some sleuthing first though so I had a better idea what is really going on. 

OP your wife is no long an idolized wonderful woman, now she is just a cheater. You have to decide if you want to live with that, that magic thing is gone. At the best you will be married to a reformed cheater.

Sorry dude, but remember you can still have a wonderful life without her.


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## ThreeStrikes

No kids? Immediately file.

She already has a roving eye, and poor boundaries. Let her go and be single. She's not ready for a committed LTR.

Get out now while the gettin' is good.

If she wants to win you back in the future, then she is welcome to try. Something tells me you can do better, though.


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## Yeswecan

hurt8288 said:


> thanks .. at the moment my stance is that she needs to convince me not to divorce. otherwise i am going ahead with it.


Good stance, sir. I understand you have a house. It is just a material thing. The dog will be non-the-wiser if the D is processed. 

May I ask, has your W ever expressed similar about your and her relationship as she did with the CW?


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## Marduk

hurt8288 said:


> thanks .. at the moment my stance is that she needs to convince me not to divorce. otherwise i am going ahead with it.


For real?

Or is it just words?

A false threat with the intention of just scaring her that you will never follow through on will just make her more emboldened.

What exactly have you done and told her?


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## rich84

sokillme said:


> Or she could just be bored and stupid. Lets now make it out to be that she is Jenna Jamison just yet.




Anything's possible. 

I can sympathize with her situation and her going for so long with unmet needs, but her decision to cheat was all her. She could have just left. 

He should kick her out, keep the house and the dog, and find someone who is more compatible. He should not try to get her back, especially since she is still protecting the POSOM. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marc878

Read up:
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=sNm3r_nqXfzXPNRK.VCFD24UMNg-

Do you really want to be looking over your shoulder long term?


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## sokillme

rich84 said:


> Anything's possible.
> 
> I can sympathize with her situation and her going for so long with unmet needs, but her decision to cheat was all her. She could have just left.
> 
> He should kick her out, keep the house and the dog, and find someone who is more compatible. He should not try to get her back, especially since she is still protecting the POSOM.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well maybe he isn't that attracted to her.


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## hurt8288

marduk said:


> For real?
> 
> Or is it just words?
> 
> A false threat with the intention of just scaring her that you will never follow through on will just make her more emboldened.
> 
> What exactly have you done and told her?


I told her I am going ahead with a divorce. But I might give her one chance to own up to absolutely everything. If she fails to mention any important details I am done.


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## SunCMars

marduk said:


> You know that you should boot her out the door, right?
> 
> That is betrayal on a scale that would be very hard to come back from.
> 
> Why haven't you done that?


I agree.

The POSOM may have not gotten into her fold....but he did get into its CPU...her brain.

The brain rules the heart. She downloaded HIS IMAGE there...after deleting YOURS.

Sorry man. File for divorce...ask her to leave. If there is going to be any Reconciliation [R], she has to do 90% of the work.

She may have excuses for falling out of love. They ARE real excuses, but they are un-forgivable...morally bereft.

Women who love their husbands do not cheat. They may have fantasies....they do not act on them....she acted...now you MUST do the same and gain control of your own emotions, pride.

By filing, you hit her with the strongest arrow in your quiver. If it does not bring her to her knees, to her senses and back into the marriage then her Wayward JuJu is stronger than her love for you. 

The trick here? Do it quick...D-Papers will push her off her selfish center.

Good Luck. :-{


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## hurt8288

Yeswecan said:


> Good stance, sir. I understand you have a house. It is just a material thing. The dog will be non-the-wiser if the D is processed.
> 
> May I ask, has your W ever expressed similar about your and her relationship as she did with the CW?


I guess she did sometime she mentioned things like: you are gorgeous and cant keep my hands off you etc.

I have put on a few pounds since then.. but I have been working out to get in shape again. For me to feel good at least


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## sokillme

hurt8288 said:


> I told her I am going ahead with a divorce. But I might give her one chance to own up to absolutely everything. If she fails to mention any important details I am done.


You need to go NC, go stay at your parents or get a hotel. You need to drive the point home. Just saying this stuff won't help. Also leave the papers. You have to play this like Picasso.


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## bandit.45

hurt8288 said:


> my wife is not willing to disclose who it is. But I am 99% sure who it is.


Then...

If he is married, go to his SO and tell her your suspicions. Show her a printout of the Reddit post. 

As for your wife? Divorce her. Seriously. For whatever reason she has lost attraction for you...whether she is in an affair with this guy or not. You don't cut the mustard for her anymore. 

The reason I say divorce is because, 9 times out of 10, when a woman loses attraction and respect for her husband, she never gets it back. You could get as ripped as a prize fighter and strike it rich on the commodities market and it would make no difference. 

I take a zero-tolerance stance on this kind of high-school behavior by adults. You need to gather your evidence...quietly... and go see a lawyer and file for D.


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## bandit.45

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks man. We bought a house together last year. So we have a mortgage and dog that we both love.


Then you put it back on the market and sell it and split the proceeds. Or you buy it from her as an agreement in the divorce. This is not an insurmountable obstacle.


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## hurt8288

bandit.45 said:


> Then...
> 
> If he is married, go to his SO and tell her your suspicions. Show her a printout of the Reddit post.
> 
> As for your wife? Divorce her. Seriously. For whatever reason she has lost attraction for you...whether she is in an affair with this guy or not. You don't cut the mustard for her anymore.
> 
> The reason I say divorce is because, 9 times out of 10, when a woman loses attraction and respect for her husband, she never gets it back. You could get as ripped as a prize fighter and strike it rich on the commodities market and it would make no difference.
> 
> I take a zero-tolerance stance on this kind of high-school behavior by adults. You need to gather your evidence...quietly... and go see a lawyer and file for D.


Thanks for your advise. Looks like everyone one is swaying towards the D.


----------



## Marduk

hurt8288 said:


> I told her I am going ahead with a divorce. But I might give her one chance to own up to absolutely everything. If she fails to mention any important details I am done.


If you want to give her one chance, tell her you've started the process and name your lawyer.

She has 24 hours to tell you everything that you already know (don't tell her what you know or how you know it) with it written down in a timeline. With an explanation of why you shouldn't just divorce her.

At the end of 24 hours, she's either accepting a divorce amicably or giving you that full timeline of events and her reasoning for why you should stay with her.

If she doesn't give you the timeline and have it be totally accurate, dump her.

If she gives you excuses why even one iota is your fault, dump her.

If she gives you everything, and takes accountability, then let us know. But do not commit to staying. Commit to hearing her out.


----------



## bandit.45

sokillme said:


> OP should not get ahead of himself, I agree with threatening divorce because it is a good consequence but he needs to get the lay of the land before he can make and strategic decisions. He should get the truth of what really happened. If it really was just lust and some groping and then she stopped, maybe there is a chance. She needs consequences though, and he needs to find out the truth.
> 
> *My thing would be printing out online divorce papers and this post he found. I would would write on the papers "we will talk about this when I get back, you have one chance to tell me the truth, then we can decide if we should save our marriage". I would leave and take the dog and go NC (really NC) for a month. This would force her hand if the relationship has a shot she will be devastated. If not better to learn that now then wast time.
> *
> Might want to do some sleuthing first though so I had a better idea what is really going on.
> 
> OP your wife is no long an idolized wonderful woman, now she is just a cheater. You have to decide if you want to live with that, that magic thing is gone. At the best you will be married to a reformed cheater.
> 
> Sorry dude, but remember you can still have a wonderful life without her.


Nice thoughts, but half-measures like these never work. We have seen other BSs try this and it always backfires.

OP:

Gather evidence.

Take evidence to the lawyer. 

Have lawyer file D petition. 

Have petition served to SO at her workplace. At the same time this is happening, call her family and yours and tell them you are divorcing her and why. Make sure you get it on the record that your are divorcing her due to her infidelity. That is all you have to tell them.


----------



## hurt8288

marduk said:


> If you want to give her one chance, tell her you've started the process and name your lawyer.
> 
> She has 24 hours to tell you everything that you already know (don't tell her what you know or how you know it) with it written down in a timeline. With an explanation of why you shouldn't just divorce her.
> 
> At the end of 24 hours, she's either accepting a divorce amicably or giving you that full timeline of events and her reasoning for why you should stay with her.
> 
> If she doesn't give you the timeline and have it be totally accurate, dump her.
> 
> If she gives you excuses why even one iota is your fault, dump her.
> 
> If she gives you everything, and takes accountability, then let us know. But do not commit to staying. Commit to hearing her out.



Thanks great advice.


----------



## Yeswecan

hurt8288 said:


> I guess she did sometime she mentioned things like: you are gorgeous and cant keep my hands off you etc.
> 
> I have put on a few pounds since then.. but I have been working out to get in shape again. For me to feel good at least



Saying to you that you are gorgeous and can't keep my hands off you does not equate to what your W had written in reddit, IMO. 

You keep working out, my man. It will serve you well in the future.


----------



## bandit.45

marduk said:


> If you want to give her one chance, tell her you've started the process and name your lawyer.
> 
> She has 24 hours to tell you everything that you already know (don't tell her what you know or how you know it) with it written down in a timeline. With an explanation of why you shouldn't just divorce her.
> 
> At the end of 24 hours, she's either accepting a divorce amicably or giving you that full timeline of events and her reasoning for why you should stay with her.
> 
> If she doesn't give you the timeline and have it be totally accurate, dump her.
> 
> If she gives you excuses why even one iota is your fault, dump her.
> 
> If she gives you everything, and takes accountability, then let us know. But do not commit to staying. Commit to hearing her out.


No. This is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. She needs to be served the D petition, with the court clerk's stamp on it. 

Chk...chk...BLAM!


----------



## hurt8288

Yeswecan said:


> Saying to you that you are gorgeous and can't keep my hands off you does not equate to what your W had written in reddit, IMO.
> 
> You keep working out, my man. It will serve you well in the future.


Thanks


----------



## bandit.45

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks great advice.


Marduk usually gives great advice but not this time. File for the D and have her served. 

She will either be devastated and panicked or she won't give a sh!t. Her response will tell you all you need to know. You can always cancel the proceedings down the line if she starts showing remorse. 

And one more thing... if you ever have a son, tell him to never marry a 17 year old girl. A teenage girl grows into a woman, and her wants and desires for what she looks for in a man change over time.

Your wife outgrew you.


----------



## hurt8288

bandit.45 said:


> Marduk usually gives great advice but not this time. File for the D and have her served.
> 
> She will either be devastated and panicked or she won't give a sh!t. Her response will tell you all you need to know. You can always cancel the proceedings down the line if she starts showing remorse.
> 
> And one more thing... if you ever have a son, tell him to never marry a 17 year old girl. A teenage girl grows into a woman, and her wants and desires for what she looks for in a man change over time.
> 
> Your wife outgrew you.



She has been leaving me notes etc saying she is sorry. I love you, you are my life etc etc. But that's just a mere note thought. Her actions with this guy at work says otherwise.


----------



## bandit.45

hurt8288 said:


> She has been leaving me notes etc saying she is sorry. I love you, you are my life etc etc. But that's just a mere note thought. Her actions with this guy at work says otherwise.


Exactly, and good for you seeing that. 

If she were serious about making things right she would quit her job. She hasn't so what does that tell you? 

She's not serious, and she has no intention to stop having contact with this butthole.


----------



## hurt8288

bandit.45 said:


> Exactly, and good for you seeing that.
> 
> If she were serious about making things right she would quit her job. She hasn't so what does that tell you?
> 
> She's not serious, and she has no intention to stop having contact with this butthole.


She has left the job where this guy was. But she has been planning that anyway. she didnt leave the job because of him.


----------



## jsmart

I agree with others that this doesn't look good. When a WW stops having sex with her husband the great majority of the time it's because she's given herself to a new guy and wants to be faithful to him. That combined with Her refusing to tell you who it is, to protect her man, should tell you where her loyalty now stands.

With no kids, I would bounce. If you want know the mind of a WW go to Lovesshack's OW section. Thousands of threads from vile adulterous woman that throw long term marriages with children in to dust bin for cheating POS that they know for a few months. So I can imagine that you and your dog don't stand much of chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan

hurt8288 said:


> She has been leaving me notes etc saying she is sorry. I love you, you are my life etc etc. But that's just a mere note thought. *Her actions *with this guy at work says otherwise.


You are thinking straight!


----------



## sokillme

bandit.45 said:


> No. This is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. She needs to be served the D petition, with the court clerk's stamp on it.
> 
> Chk...chk...BLAM!



I think the papers and NC is better. Let her stew on it. Let her get the idea what it is going to be like without him.


----------



## Marduk

bandit.45 said:


> Marduk usually gives great advice but not this time. File for the D and have her served.


In this case, I agree. I wouldn't even give her a shot at R. 

But, if he's going to try one last ditch way, that's the way I would do it. Expecting to find out within 24 hours that she doesn't want one, or has been ****ing the guy for a while now. Or more than one guy.


----------



## GusPolinski

hurt8288 said:


> my wife is not willing to disclose who it is. But I am 99% sure who it is.


Then there's nothing to talk about. File for divorce immediately.

Look, you can't protect your marriage against a threat unless you understand the nature of the threat. This will include both knowledge of OM's identity AND addressing what your wife has termed your "sexless marriage".

Either your wife agrees to a) disclose the guy's name to you, b) start looking for another job immediately, c) cut any and all contact w/ this guy, and d) expose everything to his wife or you file for divorce.

In exchange, you agree to a) counseling, b) more sex, and c) no divorce.

It's just that simple.


----------



## sokillme

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks for your advise. Looks like everyone one is swaying towards the D.


I think everyone is swaying you to hard consequences it is way way to early to make a final decision. Deal with the present, get a lay of the land then figure out what you want to do.


----------



## GusPolinski

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks man. We bought a house together last year. So we have a mortgage and dog that we both love.


A house... and a dog.

Big. Freaking. Deal.


----------



## Marduk

With this one, I wouldn't just be checking Reddit. I'd be checking craigslist and tinder.

Who was the poster who couldn't figure out why his wife was acting weird and unhappy and it turns out she was just going for a random nameless hookup a few times a week? She didn't even know their names, if I remember right. Just wanted sex with random strangers.


----------



## hurt8288

marduk said:


> With this one, I wouldn't just be checking Reddit. I'd be checking craigslist and tinder.
> 
> Who was the poster who couldn't figure out why his wife was acting weird and unhappy and it turns out she was just going for a random nameless hookup a few times a week? She didn't even know their names, if I remember right. Just wanted sex with random strangers.


The thing is I am ok if she had just sex. But this emotional connection with someone else is driving me mad. It's like when you fall for someone, all you think about is them. That's exactly what she had and she gave her total attention to that random guy.

Who now she say she had no interest in having a relationship with him. etc


----------



## Marduk

hurt8288 said:


> The thing is I am ok if she had just sex. But this emotional connection with someone else is driving me mad. It's like when you fall for someone, all you think about is them. That's exactly what she had and she gave her total attention to that random guy.
> 
> Who now she say she had no interest in having a relationship with him. etc


You're ok if she has sex with other guys?

Really?


----------



## Yeswecan

hurt8288 said:


> The thing is I am ok if she had just sex. But this emotional connection with someone else is driving me mad. It's like when you fall for someone, all you think about is them. That's exactly what she had and she gave her total attention to that random guy.
> 
> Who now she say she had no interest in having a relationship with him. etc


Which is why I asked if your W expressed the same feelings for you. If not, why stay the course with a person who will not express the same feelings.

For me...the emotional connection would not be a deal breaker. The sex would end it for me. No questions asked.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

hurt8288 said:


> The thing is I am ok if she had just sex. But this emotional connection with someone else is driving me mad. It's like when you fall for someone, all you think about is them. That's exactly what she had and she gave her total attention to that random guy.
> 
> Who now she say she had no interest in having a relationship with him. etc


You're really ok with her banging some other dude? Really????

What happens when the next guy comes along and gives her butterflies?


----------



## hurt8288

ThreeStrikes said:


> You're really ok with her banging some other dude? Really????
> 
> What happens when the next guy comes along and gives her butterflies?


I am not OK. But I would be willing to forgive her. We are all human after all. People make mistakes in the heat of the moment. 

But this emotional one has been going on for 3 months. She was totally into him, dressing to impress him. Flirting, taking every chance to meet him. Which means I am just her cushion while she adores other guys and communicate well with them, while blocking me out. That is definitely worse than just a one off bang.


----------



## Yeswecan

hurt8288 said:


> I am not OK. But I would be willing to forgive her. We are all human after all. People make mistakes in the heat of the moment.
> 
> But this emotional one has been going on for 3 months. She was totally into him, dressing to impress him. Flirting, taking every chance to meet him. Which means I am just her cushion while she adores other guys and communicate well with them, while blocking me out. That is definitely worse than just a one off bang.


A mistake is incorrectly balancing the checkbook. This was no mistake. This was thought out, planned and executed. Dressing, flirting, plans to meet....no mistake sir. You are not thinking straight if you are chalking this up to a mistake.


----------



## farsidejunky

Sorry. No way is this just an emotional affair. It went physical.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## hurt8288

farsidejunky said:


> Sorry. No way is this just an emotional affair. It went physical.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


She is saying she stopped seeing him in end of feb, after posting the question on reddit.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

hurt8288 said:


> She is saying she stopped seeing him in end of feb, after posting the question on reddit.


How do you know she is being truthful?


----------



## bandit.45

Your wife was a baby when you married her. Now she is a sexually mature (not emotionally mature) woman and her wants and desires have changed. You just don't rock her world anymore. It has nothing to do with you or how good of shape you are or how you treat her. She got bored. And bored women do stupid things sometimes. By filing for divorce you will force her to make a decision about her future and yours. She ether wants to commit to being a wife wand working through your problems together, or she wants to be single and date other men. That is the choice you need to present to her.


----------



## hurt8288

ThreeStrikes said:


> How do you know she is being truthful?


good point. I do not know. Only thing I know is she was still distant from me until now. something was still off. The other week I was sitting near the window to see if she is getting dropped off by someone. so weird.


----------



## bandit.45

hurt8288 said:


> The thing is I am ok if she had just sex.


:surprise:


----------



## Yeswecan

hurt8288 said:


> good point. I do not know. Only thing I know was she was still distant from me until now. something was still off. The other week I was sitting near the window to see if she is getting dropped off by someone. so weird.


If your W is still distant she is still in the affair fog or in contact. Both. If she has just started to come around then the the OM has now possibly just moved on. You need to do some digging.


----------



## AliceA

hurt8288 said:


> I am not OK. But I would be willing to forgive her. We are all human after all. People make mistakes in the heat of the moment.
> 
> But this emotional one has been going on for 3 months. She was totally into him, dressing to impress him. Flirting, taking every chance to meet him. Which means I am just her cushion while she adores other guys and communicate well with them, while blocking me out. That is definitely worse than just a one off bang.


To be honest, you don't really sound like you're in love. It more sounds like she's a friend you live with, and you don't really want her to fall in love with someone else because you'd lose a friend, not because you'd lose the love of your life.

Your wife has a high sex drive, but you've failed to notice that it was triggered by emotional attachment. So it's never just going to be sex. You can see that with your sex life with her too. Despite having a high sex drive, apparently she's lost interest in having sex with you. That's due to a loss of emotional attachment.

1) She can't reform an attachment with you when there's another man sitting in that spot
2) You aren't going to be able to form that attachment again unless you actively make an effort to be affectionate
3) You aren't going to bother being affectionate with someone you only see as a friend


----------



## farsidejunky

hurt8288 said:


> She is saying she stopped seeing him in end of feb, after posting the question on reddit.


She also wont reveal his name. Withholding, but not lying?

Nope.


----------



## Marduk

farsidejunky said:


> She also wont reveal his name. Withholding, but not lying?
> 
> Nope.


"But, honey, it was just the tip! I swear! I hated every orgasm I had."


----------



## Tobyboy

Have you told your wife that your ok with her having "just sex" with other men?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Has she been trying to have sex with you lately?
Does she have new underwear she has t worn around you?
Does she go out clubbing without you with the girls?
Shopping trips without buy much or anything?
Coming home late for work or leaving early to go to work?


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Tobyboy said:


> Have you told your wife that your ok with her having "just sex" with other men?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pretty sure he meant that he may be able to forgive this, rather than her being emotionally connected with someone...


----------



## LadybugMomma

hurt8288 said:


> my wife is not willing to disclose who it is. But I am 99% sure who it is.


She's protecting OM, this is a red flag!


----------



## 225985

OP,

Make 9 more posts then ask the mods to move this thread to the Private Member's Section. If not, within a day google will pick up these posts and your wife will find this thread. You found hers.

ETA: I see you are running a similar thread on reddit right now. Won't your wife find that? Title below 

My [34 M] wife [27 F] posted this few months back and I found out, what are my options?


----------



## hurt8288

blueinbr said:


> OP,
> 
> Make 9 more posts then ask the mods to move this thread to the Private Member's Section. If not, within a day google will pick up these posts and your wife will find this thread. You found hers.
> 
> ETA: I see you are running a similar thread on reddit right now. Won't your wife find that? Title below
> 
> My [34 M] wife [27 F] posted this few months back and I found out, what are my options?


Thanks. I guess I really don't mind. Got nothing to hide. But I have deleted some reddit stuff.


----------



## Lostinthought61

What i am not hearing and perhaps you can share with us, what is she doing to step up to the plate and prove to you that she wants only to be with you, and she is fighting for the marriage...some one who is not willing to do that is just waiting around for the next opportunity with some one else. you need to tell the OMW, and you need a serious come to jesus meeting with your wife. and if she cant commit to showing you how much she wants this marriage then show her the door.


----------



## hurt8288

Chaparral said:


> Has she been trying to have sex with you lately?
> Does she have new underwear she has t worn around you?
> Does she go out clubbing without you with the girls?
> Shopping trips without buy much or anything?
> Coming home late for work or leaving early to go to work?


Some of those are true. Hmmmm.


----------



## hurt8288

Xenote said:


> What i am not hearing and perhaps you can share with us, what is she doing to step up to the plate and prove to you that she wants only to be with you, and she is fighting for the marriage...some one who is not willing to do that is just waiting around for the next opportunity with some one else. you need to tell the OMW, and you need a serious come to jesus meeting with your wife. and if she cant commit to showing you how much she wants this marriage then show her the door.


She has not done anything other than crying and saying she loves me means the world etc. Yet to give name out of the other guy. She says she will do anything but when I ask the name she says you will ruin their lives. Obviously she is more worried about them than us.


----------



## Lostinthought61

hurt8288 said:


> She has not done anything other than crying and saying she loves me means the world etc. Yet to give name out of the other guy. She says she will do anything but when I ask the name she says you will ruin their lives. Obviously she is more worried about them than us.


So what i am hearing is that she would rather keep his name in the dark then help you come to terms with her actions.....i guess you have your answer...don't you?


----------



## Wazza

This is horrifying.

You first posted 7 hours ago, got advice from a bunch of strangers on the Internet, many of whom are divorced themselves, and you've already reached the point of telling your wife you are divorcing her on that basis?

Do you think maybe taking some time to think about it might be a good idea?

She had inappropriate contact with a guy. She says she has ended it, and has gone to the point of changing jobs. So if the contact she had is a deal breaker fair enough. Otherwise, she says she has ended it.

You have a red flag with the sex life problem. But is that really something to divorce over without talking about it?

Massive, massive overreaction in my view. You have reason for concern, but way too early to pull the trigger.


----------



## hurt8288

Xenote said:


> So what i am hearing is that she would rather keep his name in the dark then help you come to terms with her actions.....i guess you have your answer...don't you?


I guess so


----------



## Wazza

marduk said:


> That is betrayal on a scale that would be very hard to come back from.


Really? What specifically makes it so hard in your eyes? It looks like a lot less than I came back from with my wife.


----------



## hurt8288

Wazza said:


> This is horrifying.
> 
> You first posted 7 hours ago, got advice from a bunch of strangers on the Internet, many of whom are divorced themselves, and you've already reached the point of telling your wife you are divorcing her on that basis?
> 
> Do you think maybe taking some time to think about it might be a good idea?
> 
> She had inappropriate contact with a guy. She says she has ended it, and has gone to the point of changing jobs. So if the contact she had is a deal breaker fair enough. Otherwise, she says she has ended it.
> 
> You have a red flag with the sex life problem. But is that really something to divorce over without talking about it?
> 
> Massive, massive overreaction in my view. You have reason for concern, but way too early to pull the trigger.


Certainly, but if she is not willing to discuss the detail and give up the name I guess I cannot trust her anymore. This will be a huge setback on an already strained relationship.


----------



## Wazza

Xenote said:


> So what i am hearing is that she would rather keep his name in the dark then help you come to terms with her actions.....i guess you have your answer...don't you?


There could be lots of reasons she is doing that. My wife would do the same for fear it would make things worse. It's not necessarily choosing the other guy.

I wouldn't let her get away with it. I would draw a line and make it a very simple choice, but I would make it about demanding honesty, not about the refusal to tell being a mirror of her feelings

Op, her feelings for the other guy were genuine. I know it hurts. But you will have to deal with that if you want any option other than divorce. What she did was wrong, and also very human. But she ended it, and there was very little physical contact as far as you know. You have a lot to work with here if you choose.


----------



## Wazza

hurt8288 said:


> Certainly, but if she is not willing to discuss the detail and give up the name I guess I cannot trust her anymore. This will be a huge setback on an already strained relationship.


I agree, and THAT is the line I would draw.


----------



## hurt8288

Wazza said:


> There could be lots of reasons she is doing that. My wife would do the same for fear it would make things worse. It's not necessarily choosing the other guy.
> 
> I wouldn't let her get away with it. I would draw a line and make it a very simple choice, but I would make it about demanding honesty, not about the refusal to tell being a mirror of her feelings
> 
> Op, her feelings for the other guy were genuine. I know it hurts. But you will have to deal with that if you want any option other than divorce. What she did was wrong, and also very human. But she ended it, and there was very little physical contact as far as you know. You have a lot to work with here if you choose.


I know thing is within that period she totally lost touch with me. Almost like I don't know her anymore. Any intimacy from her on will feel awkward. It will replay in mind that she actually wanted cloths off another man. And she loved seeing him daily and cut our chats out.


----------



## Wazza

I am not saying you don't have problems. I am not saying everything will be ok. And I am not saying you should let her get away with everything. 

But, really......this is so mild. If you really want to save the marriage you have a lot to work with. The first thing is to calm down, and not do anything hasty. If you act fast you will act from emotion and make bad choices. Give it time, and you will be able to judge things more clearly.


----------



## Wazza

hurt8288 said:


> I know thing is within that period she totally lost touch with me. Almost like I don't know her anymore. Any intimacy from her on will feel awkward. It will replay in mind that she actually wanted cloths off another man. And she loved seeing him daily and cut our chats out.


Yep. Been there, it hurts. A lot. And will for a long time. I'm still married (26 years later). It's possible to come back. If you want to.


----------



## MattMatt

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks for your advise. Looks like everyone one is swaying towards the D.


I am swaying toward couple's counselling, plus Individual Counselling, first.

Though divorce would still be an option.


----------



## Wazza

MattMatt said:


> I am swaying toward couple's counselling, plus Individual Counselling, first.
> 
> Though divorce would still be an option.


Matt, I think a brief summary of your story would be great. You came back from a lot more than this guy has been through as well.

Op, it's your marriage, and you get to decide what you will and won't accept. Just....gather some other people's stories, think about what you want, and above all, take time. 

This stuff is painful, and it's not fair. But there is a lot to think about.


----------



## Wazza

Here is a recent thread you could read, see what this guy dealt with, and in particular the feelings he went through. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/319202-ive-been-played.html 

It's in the private section, so you may need a couple more posts to see it. (I think you have to have 30?) just do a couple of empty posts on your thread to get the numbers up.

The point is just to give you another story as a basis for comparison.


----------



## SunCMars

bandit.45 said:


> Then...
> 
> If he is married, go to his SO and tell her your suspicions. Show her a printout of the Reddit post.
> 
> As for your wife? Divorce her. Seriously. For whatever reason she has lost attraction for you...whether she is in an affair with this guy or not. You don't cut the mustard for her anymore.
> 
> The reason I say divorce is because, 9 times out of 10, when a woman loses attraction and respect for her husband, she never gets it back. You could get as ripped as a prize fighter and strike it rich on the commodities market and it would make no difference.
> 
> I take a zero-tolerance stance on this kind of high-school behavior by adults. You need to gather your evidence...quietly... and go see a lawyer and file for D.


Bandit...I agree with everything you said except about the commodities market, i.e., [striking it rich]. Money turns big heads containing small minds, every time.


----------



## ThreeStrikes

Reconciliation is possible in some circumstances.

If your WW is completely transparent about what happened.

If you can live with the fact your WW was/is willing to replace you with any PoS that gives her ego kibbles.

If your WW is willing to undergo IC and MC.

If your WW does the heavy lifting.

Here's a brief synopsis of my story, to contrast Wazza's: 

My ex was only 20 when we got engaged. Young, like yours.

Her 1st affair was 7 years into the marriage. We had 2 kids, so I forgave her.

We had a really good year after that affair (rugsweeping FTW), and then affair #2 started with her BFF's husband.

After I busted her again, and was ready to walk, she begged me to stay. Again, I stayed because I didn't want to break up my family. I forgave her, but my eyes were wide open.

The next year, affair #3 started (with a woman this time). That was the breaking point. I divorced her.

In hindsight I wish I had filed and left after her first affair.

Take my story for what it's worth.

No kids? I would advise you to GTFO.


----------



## Marc878

hurt8288 said:


> She has not done anything other than crying and saying she loves me means the world etc. Yet to give name out of the other guy. She says she will do anything but when I ask the name she says you will ruin their lives. Obviously she is more worried about them than us.


Yep, his welfare trumps yours. Sorry man


----------



## straightshooter

Hurt,

There seems to be someone on here who thinks it is OK for your wife to be involved with another man and refuse to tell you who it is because she wants to protect him at your expense. So basically this person suggests you just eat the **** sandwich and forget about it.

That is NOT showing any remorse . She should not give a CRAP about him at your expense.

And this nonsense about her quitting her job solving everything is laughable. Did anyone ever hear of cheater apps or the Internet or FB or a host of other ways to secretly communicate with an OM that you have no clue who he is .

Now an EA, if it was only that, may in itself not be a reason to D. But right now why should you believe that is all it is and the more she refuses to tell you who he is the more it points to that this was more than an EA.

Stick to your guns and do not waste your time on any therapy UNTIL you know you have the truth, which you do not know right now


----------



## SunCMars

Wazza said:


> Really? What specifically makes it so hard in your eyes? It looks like a lot less than I came back from with my wife.


 @Wazza you are a good man. On this...the Wordsmith cannot say anything more. 

Hurt OP...Wazza loved his wife [so much], that. he was able to work through HIS betrayal. He is working on [reconciliation]. 

Few men can do so. Hurt OP, few men would fault you if you leave her.

The correct answer is, both simple and complex.

Simple as in: 

Is she worth it? 

Is she, that special?

Can I replace her, with a better wife?



Complex as in:

Why is she worth it? 

What will determine this? 

Can I forgive her? 

Will she work hard to make up for her.......betrayal. 

Will she betray me again, in the future? 

Do I want to take another chance on her...a proven cheater? 

*Do I have it in me to forgive her*, to get past this and not have constant doubts and triggers later on.

Will I abuse her and berate her every time I get angry at her, for any reason? 

Will she view me as a weak rug-sweeper, a nice-guy beta-cuckhold?

The answers to these questions are in *both beating hearts*....yours and hers.


----------



## sokillme

Why are we even talking about staying or divorcing. OP doesn't even know the full story yet. Everyone slow down. OP do what I said print up divorce papers and just leave them there. Force her hand. Then get away from the situation. Depending on her reaction then you can decide what you do. This problem didn't just start overnight and it won't be fixed that way either. 

One step at a time. 

Papers
Go NC.
180. 
Force her hand. 
Real consequences. 
From there decided.


----------



## farsidejunky

No, it is not mild.

Just because your situation was worse, @Wazza, does not make this situation anything less that wholly serious.

I am not divorced. But I would certainly communicate to my wife, if she were to do this, that any refusal of crucial information, like say (you know) the identity of the AP would mean I have no choice but to leave her.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## eric1

hurt8288 said:


> thanks .. at the moment my stance is that she needs to convince me not to divorce. otherwise i am going ahead with it.




1. Ask her for her phone. Once you have it tell you that you are bringing it to a private investigator who has forensic tools which can recover anything and everything. Her face at that instant will tell you everything you need to know

2. Poly her if you don't believe me on #1


----------



## eric1

sokillme said:


> Why are we even talking about staying or divorcing. OP doesn't even know the full story yet. Everyone slow down. OP do what I said print up divorce papers and just leave them there. Force her hand. Then get away from the situation. Depending on her reaction then you can decide what you do. This problem didn't just start overnight and it won't be fixed that way either.
> 
> One step at a time.
> 
> Papers
> Go NC.
> 180.
> Force her hand.
> Real consequences.
> From there decided.





Exactly. The ONLY reason she won't give up a name is because she is either in the affair still or is waiting for it to restart.

With that said, I'm big on pushing getting the name in the context of 'getting every damn detail'. If you push for JUST the name too much then she'll just warn her boyfriend (she probably already has)

If you are 99% sure who it is then get his wife's info, have a call/evidence ready to roll and when you confirm then just confront the OBS ASAP before she can warn him again.

By not giving you his name it's the greatest evidence that she cares for him more than she cares for you.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

hurt8288 said:


> I know thing is within that period she totally lost touch with me. Almost like I don't know her anymore. Any intimacy from her on will feel awkward. It will replay in mind that she actually wanted cloths off another man. And she loved seeing him daily and cut our chats out.



Your void in the relation was getting filled by another man. 

Simple logic.

If you want to keep a woman you have to maintain an emotional bond, otherwise they walk anyhow. 

I see a lot of people here forgetting that and hammering on the legal commitment of the marriage. But the love and intimacy are also essential to a marriage, you cannot fail in that aspect and expect fullfillment of the other.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

My wife works as a teacher and is dealing with lots of divorce children. I hear about the pain the lives of these kids. I think to many males here, besides forgetting about the communication and sharing part of their relation also forget about the misery in the lives of the children. I think a lot more effort should be in staying together instead of fixating on the sex part of the equation.


----------



## Acoa

eric1 said:


> *By not giving you his name it's the greatest evidence that she cares for him more than she cares for you.*


Read that and let it sink in. It's the truth.


----------



## jld

She may see it as she is protecting all of you by not telling you his name.


----------



## jld

hurt8288 said:


> thanks .. at the moment my stance is that she needs to convince me not to divorce. otherwise i am going ahead with it.


Please just divorce. It would be selfish not to.

She might be afraid to face the unknown, but it is better for her long term. As someone else said, you two are a mismatch. She needs affection and a higher drive male. She is too young to settle for less.

Please do the right thing. Please set her free.

Any chance she would come here, so we could talk to her?


----------



## jld

bandit.45 said:


> And one more thing... if you ever have a son, tell him to never marry a 17 year old girl. A teenage girl grows into a woman, and her wants and desires for what she looks for in a man change over time.
> 
> Your wife outgrew you.


Agreed.


----------



## sokillme

See_Listen_Love said:


> Your void in the relation was getting filled by another man.
> 
> Simple logic.
> 
> If you want to keep a woman you have to maintain an emotional bond, otherwise they walk anyhow.
> 
> I see a lot of people here forgetting that and hammering on the legal commitment of the marriage. But the love and intimacy are also essential to a marriage, you cannot fail in that aspect and expect fulfillment of the other.


This may be good advice but I don't think now is the appropriate time for it. At present OP needs to figure out what is going on and what the course of action he is going to take. He can work on how he can do better after the immediate problem is solved. 

Also it is unwise to assume that an emotional bonding would necessarily keep anyone from cheating. Character is what keeps people from cheating. 

This is really the only "logical" conclusion for if it was really about emotional bonding then any relationship that was lacking in that area would also be one that ended in cheating.


----------



## sokillme

How is it going today OP?


----------



## sokillme

jld said:


> Please just divorce. It would be selfish not to.
> 
> She might be afraid to face the unknown, but it is better for her long term. As someone else said, you two are a mismatch. She needs affection and a higher drive male. She is too young to settle for less.
> 
> Please do the right thing. Please set her free.
> 
> Any chance she would come here, so we could talk to her?


I think it is way to soon to tell. He has no idea what really happened. If it is just what she wrote (unlikely I agree) then maybe they can work on their sex life together. We have no idea if any of these issues were even discussed in the marriage. We don't know either how open they are with each other about what they need as far as seduction. 

Maybe she expects him to do all the work, this is a lot easier to do when everything is new. Plus I guarantee this new guy uses all the same lines on every girl he wants to f_ck. Also op's wife probably was justifying her cheating behavior in her post, most cheaters do this. A good way to self delusion is to see yourself as a victim. I tend to not take cheaters at face value. The point is every marriage needs work if she really didn't have a PA except for some petting, and if they really do love each other maybe it is worth the work.

The broader point now is not the the time for any of this. Find out what is really going on first.


----------



## jld

How old are you, OP?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hurt808

jld said:


> How old are you, OP?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Hello I am the OP. Somehow my account is not accessible anymore. I am 33. I agree with you. I think we are pretty incompatible too. We have different interests etc in life. May be we got together too early.


----------



## hurt808

sokillme said:


> How is it going today OP?


Nothing much. We haven't really spoken. She is going away for few days to one of our friends place. She still hasn't given up the names or any details. Was humming songs all evening. Very strange behaviour.

Also my birthday is in few days, so she handed me a present. I didn't open it. 

I am suffering like mad. This is the only thing in my head. But I think we would both be happy divorced. This affair would make it impossible for me to look at her the way i did, trust her the way I did.


----------



## Palodyne

hurt808 said:


> Hello I am the OP. Somehow my account is not accessible anymore. I am 33. I agree with you. I think we are pretty incompatible too. We have different interests etc in life. May be we got together too early.


 A lot have had similar problems with access to our profiles. The site is requiring password changes. Go to log in, then to forgot password, and reset your password. It worked for me.


----------



## hurt808

jld said:


> She may see it as she is protecting all of you by not telling you his name.


I don't believe she is protecting me. She said you would ruin their lives. Also on a side note, one of my friends cheated on his GF a while back. 

She said at the time I will never be able to forgive you if you did that and that his GF should leave him straight away. As the cheaters would always cheat. These were her words.


----------



## Tron

hurt808 said:


> I don't believe she is protecting me. She said you would ruin their lives. Also on a side note, one of my friends cheated on his GF a while back.
> 
> She said at the time I will never be able to forgive you if you did that and that his GF should leave him straight away. As the cheaters would always cheat. These were her words.


Throw it back at her: "Given that is the way you feel, why should I forgive you? Why shouldn't I just leave you?"

I'd be interested in what she says.


----------



## jld

hurt808 said:


> I don't believe she is protecting me. She said you would ruin their lives. Also on a side note, one of my friends cheated on his GF a while back.
> 
> She said at the time I will never be able to forgive you if you did that and that his GF should leave him straight away. As the cheaters would always cheat. These were her words.


You might bring those words up to her and see what she says.

I am glad to hear you realize you two would both be happier divorced. Even if she does not see it now, I think she will thank you for it later.

You both need people you are naturally compatible with. I am confident you will both find them.


----------



## sokillme

hurt808 said:


> Nothing much. We haven't really spoken. She is going away for few days to one of our friends place. She still hasn't given up the names or any details. Was humming songs all evening. Very strange behaviour.
> 
> Also my birthday is in few days, so she handed me a present. I didn't open it.
> 
> I am suffering like mad. This is the only thing in my head. But I think we would both be happy divorced. This affair would make it impossible for me to look at her the way i did, trust her the way I did.


Are you sure you know where she is going? Well if you really feel that way then maybe you should move forward what is stopping you?


----------



## sokillme

Palodyne said:


> A lot have had similar problems with access to our profiles. The site is requiring password changes. Go to log in, then to forgot password, and reset your password. It worked for me.


Same here. I thought I got banned from here like I did SI :biggrinangelA:


----------



## Absurdist

Mist. Fog. Bridges.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

hurt808 said:


> I don't believe she is protecting me. She said you would ruin their lives. Also on a side note, one of my friends cheated on his GF a while back.
> 
> She said at the time I will never be able to forgive you if you did that and that his GF should leave him straight away. As the cheaters would always cheat. These were her words.


Let me give you a little advice from one who has been there. She is lying to you based on what you have posted. You, to me, seem unsure of yourself. I am usually for r, as I am in r right now, but you really need to realize she does not care for you. If you want the save your marriage you have to be willing the lose it. I learned it here on TAM about seven or so months ago. Read up on the 180.

You seem to me very timid. I would encourage you to read the book "grow a pair". 

I really think since you have no kids, dump this woman and find someone who will be true.

Your wife is lying to you. That is what cheaters do, take it from this jarhead who has been there. She is in the fog right now.


----------



## sokillme

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> Let me give you a little advice from one who has been there. She is lying to you based on what you have posted. You, to me, seem unsure of yourself. I am usually for r, as I am in r right now, but you really need to realize she does not care for you. If you want the save your marriage you have to be willing the lose it. I learned it here on TAM about seven or so months ago. Read up on the 180.
> 
> You seem to me very timid. I would encourage you to read the book "grow a pair".
> 
> I really think since you have no kids, dump this woman and find someone who will be true.
> 
> Your wife is lying to you. That is what cheaters do, take it from this jarhead who has been there. She is in the fog right now.


I agree OP, I think she is in the fog, and you are in a fog. This is why I keep telling you to leave and get away from her for a good month NO CONTACT. Partly to shock her but also so you can get yourself out of the fog. And finally because you are a man, and we are creatures of action, being passive is not healthy for our nature. We need to fight. Right now you are deeply hurt and also undecided because of it. You are like a wounded animal. You need to fight, throw some punches and then go away and heal.

I would leave when she is away, pack some stuff and leave. Let her come home to an empty house. Text her that you know she is cheating on this trip (even if she isn't) and you are gone. Then go NC, DO NOT ANSWER HER TEXTS for a month, you will ruin her fun and get some vengence. Hang out with friends, do some things you have been meaning to that you find fun, go be with family, start working out (Exercise releases endorphins and give you tangible daily goals and successes). Build you confidence back up. Take time to work on yourself get to a place where you are ready to fight and then see what you want. 

Finally a lot of people on here are giving you a hard time about you sex drive. I don't believe anyone's sex drive is all on them. It is also the partners responsibility to seduce them, satisfy them. Lots of woman seem to think they can just assume their man should want them. Maybe you weren't as into her because she is boring in bed without the excitement of the newness of it all. Maybe she never put in the work to figure out how to seduce you, did you both work to make the sex great or did she just assume you would want her. Plus both of you are living real life and not just a fantasy. This guy who is into her now is a player and he know what to say to get to her, that is what they do. Plus I am sure when you first met her you were banging like rabbits. Once he gets what he wants he is going to move on. Unfortunately lots of woman don't get this and players take advantage. This guys desire for her is going to be over after he gets what he wants, and then your desire for her is going to seem like a 13 year old school boy. A lot of the excitement for him is being able to get a married woman to give herself to him. It may not have anything to do with being real attracted to her or not. It's the power thing. It's easy to say I want to be wild with you twice every night when you first meet someone talk to me about it in 10 years. 

Also she wrote that post partially to justify her heinous actions. May cheaters write this kind of stuff and then later turn around and admit that wasn't really the problem they were just selfish and to give themselves permission to cheat they focused in on small things and turned them into great injustices. 

Don't take the words as a lying cheater as a reflection on you. No matter what your SO is full of sh!t.

Read the posts I gave you at the beginning of this thread, all these guys left and went NC. Get the hell out of there man, separate yourself, make the next month about you.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

So kill me is right on target sir. You have to strike and strike hard. Women do not respect any display of weakness. Sun Tzu, the great Chinese General once wrote "baffle them with confusion. Take them by surprise". Moving out and letting her come home to an empty house would be a super idea. You can always stop the d, but you have to be strong my good man. Show her you will not be treated shabbily.


----------



## GuyInColorado

I've been officially divorced for 6 days now. Divorce isn't that bad... and I have two young kids, mortgage, car payment, camper payment, retirement, credit card debt, etc. It's going to take me a year to recover financially and be able to buy my own home, but it's worth it. Like they say... Know why divorce is so expensive? Because it's worth it!

Also, I've been dating an amazing woman for the past 4 months. Amazing sex. And if it doesn't work out, I'll find someone else. Don't be scared to get a divorce. Regret is a painful thing to live with. Don't have regrets 10 years from now that you should have divorced her in 2016 and not wasted your youth.

There are dozens of people just on this site that regret they didn't get out of a sexless/miserable marriage 15, 20, 25, 30 years ago. Don't be them!!


----------



## *Deidre*

Just divorce her. I don't think there needs to be a grand exodus or circus where the BS tells everyone they know, and creates this storm of drama, before filing. Just divorce, unless you want to stay married to a cheater. But if you want to just be rid of the liar and her drama, divorce her. Don't be so afraid of the unknown that you stay in a toxic relationship out of fear. ((hug))


----------



## sokillme

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> So kill me is right on target sir. You have to strike and strike hard. Women do not respect any display of weakness. Sun Tzu, the great Chinese General once wrote "baffle them with confusion. Take them by surprise". Moving out and letting her come home to an empty house would be a super idea. You can always stop the d, but you have to be strong my good man. Show her you will not be treated shabbily.


You taught me that my friend. Reading your post and some others. Passiveness is a cancer for men.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

I am going to tell you what my BIL told my nephew whose wife cheated"f her and feed her fish heads. Translation, let her stew in her own shyt


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

sokillme said:


> Lonely husband 42301 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So kill me is right on target sir. You have to strike and strike hard. Women do not respect any display of weakness. Sun Tzu, the great Chinese General once wrote "baffle them with confusion. Take them by surprise". Moving out and letting her come home to an empty house would be a super idea. You can always stop the d, but you have to be strong my good man. Show her you will not be treated shabbily.
> 
> 
> 
> You taught me that my friend. Reading your post and some others. Passiveness is a cancer for men.
Click to expand...

 I just did what was instinctive. My wife needed her head to be removed from her rectal cavity as she was suffering from cranial rectal inversion. 
I am not wired to not retaliate thanks to the Corps, and my sorry ass childhood.


----------



## sokillme

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> I just did what was instinctive. My wife needed her head to be removed from her rectal cavity as she was suffering from cranial rectal inversion.
> I am not wired to not retaliate thanks to the Corps, and my sorry ass childhood.


Still it was a good lesson to learn. Always been proactive in your own life.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

sokillme said:


> This may be good advice but I don't think now is the appropriate time for it. At present OP needs to figure out what is going on and what the course of action he is going to take. He can work on how he can do better after the immediate problem is solved.
> 
> Also it is unwise to assume that an emotional bonding would necessarily keep anyone from cheating. Character is what keeps people from cheating.
> 
> This is really the only "logical" conclusion for if it was really about emotional bonding then any relationship that was lacking in that area would also be one that ended in cheating.


Logic does not mean that the argument flows in both directions.
So I do not assume that emotional bonding keeps anyone from cheating if I say that a lack of an emotional bond leads to a wife leaving.

Leaving is not cheating, it is leaving the marriage, first mental, then physical. This can be accompanied by an EA/PA but does not need to be. A wife can even stay because of belief or children, while having 'left' mentally the marriage.


----------



## sokillme

See_Listen_Love said:


> Logic does not mean that the argument flows in both directions.
> So I do not assume that emotional bonding keeps anyone from cheating if I say that a lack of an emotional bond leads to a wife leaving.
> 
> Leaving is not cheating, it is leaving the marriage, first mental, then physical. This can be accompanied by an EA/PA but does not need to be. A wife can even stay because of belief or children, while having 'left' mentally the marriage.


Well yeah with out an emotional bond people don't have a relationship I think that is just common sense.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

sokillme said:


> Well yeah with out an emotional bond people don't have a relationship I think that is just common sense.


Then common sense seems not to be very logic: you can have a relationship without an emotional bond as is being shown on these forums a lot of the time. Lets agree to disagree. :wink2:


----------



## hurt808

*Deidre* said:


> Just divorce her. I don't think there needs to be a grand exodus or circus where the BS tells everyone they know, and creates this storm of drama, before filing. Just divorce, unless you want to stay married to a cheater. But if you want to just be rid of the liar and her drama, divorce her. Don't be so afraid of the unknown that you stay in a toxic relationship out of fear. ((hug))


Thanks (hug)


----------



## Wazza

SunCMars said:


> @Wazza you are a good man. On this...the Wordsmith cannot say anything more.
> 
> Hurt OP...Wazza loved his wife [so much], that. he was able to work through HIS betrayal. He is working on [reconciliation].
> 
> Few men can do so. Hurt OP, few men would fault you if you leave her.
> 
> The correct answer is, both simple and complex.
> 
> Simple as in:
> 
> Is she worth it?
> 
> Is she, that special?
> 
> Can I replace her, with a better wife?
> 
> 
> 
> Complex as in:
> 
> Why is she worth it?
> 
> What will determine this?
> 
> Can I forgive her?
> 
> Will she work hard to make up for her.......betrayal.
> 
> Will she betray me again, in the future?
> 
> Do I want to take another chance on her...a proven cheater?
> 
> *Do I have it in me to forgive her*, to get past this and not have constant doubts and triggers later on.
> 
> Will I abuse her and berate her every time I get angry at her, for any reason?
> 
> Will she view me as a weak rug-sweeper, a nice-guy beta-cuckhold?
> 
> The answers to these questions are in *both beating hearts*....yours and hers.


Sorry about being quiet. My account got locked. TAM are changing their password rules.

First comment....wife's affair was over 25 years ago....I think that qualifies for actually having achieved reconciliation. 

"Few men can do so". Accurate measures are hard to come by, I think the number is 30-40%. But really, what matters is what the OP can do. And what he wants to do.

But I agree with you that this starts in OP's heart. Just recognise that your mood swings a lot at a time like this. Take at least a few days, and I would say a few weeks, to process things, get beyond the mood swings, and figure out what you really want.

When I wrote my last posts the thread was about 7 hours old. Not long enough.


----------



## Wazza

straightshooter said:


> Hurt,
> 
> There seems to be someone on here who thinks it is OK for your wife to be involved with another man and refuse to tell you who it is because she wants to protect him at your expense. So basically this person suggests you just eat the **** sandwich and forget about it.
> 
> That is NOT showing any remorse . She should not give a CRAP about him at your expense.
> 
> And this nonsense about her quitting her job solving everything is laughable. Did anyone ever hear of cheater apps or the Internet or FB or a host of other ways to secretly communicate with an OM that you have no clue who he is .
> 
> Now an EA, if it was only that, may in itself not be a reason to D. But right now why should you believe that is all it is and the more she refuses to tell you who he is the more it points to that this was more than an EA.
> 
> Stick to your guns and do not waste your time on any therapy UNTIL you know you have the truth, which you do not know right now


If she refused to give me his name, that would be a deal breaker for me too.


----------



## hurt808

Wazza said:


> If she refused to give me his name, that would be a deal breaker for me too.


I have asked quite a few times now. But she wants to have a "proper" conversation than "bickering". I think I am done. I clearly explained saying if you are hiding the person that means you care about OM/his family than our relationship. Still no answer.

She comes home puts on some music, hums along. Like nothing happened! Incredible!


----------



## Wazza

farsidejunky said:


> No, it is not mild.
> 
> Just because your situation was worse, @Wazza, does not make this situation anything less that wholly serious.
> 
> I am not divorced. But I would certainly communicate to my wife, if she were to do this, that any refusal of crucial information, like say (you know) the identity of the AP would mean I have no choice but to leave her.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I wrote what I wrote because so many people denounced this as hopeless. I have seen marriages (including my own) come back from worse and be happy. It really all depends on OP.

The guy's opening question was "what are my options" and the forum gave him only one.

Any infidelity is serious. Some marriages get repaired, some don't. But if this woman was in an active sexual relationship with another man, we would be saying things like, she has to end it, she has to quit the job, and stuff. These things have already happened. 

There are, for example, stories I have read on TAM of guys whose wives fvcked OM, came home with OMs cum inside them, and encouraged husband to perform oral sex on them. How does this wife compare against something like that?

OP, what matters is what you feel. You haven't got kids yet, if you think it's better to just walk, then simpler to do so now.

If it were me (and it's not) I would consider three things.

First, she cheated, and that is wrong. It's a character defect. I would be asking myself whether she will learn from that or not. My wife got forgiven once, because I believe she is generally honest, decent and caring, and the cheating was out of character. But she knows that was a once only thing, and in my case she got that not because of my feelings for her, but because there were children involved. 

Second, she cannot keep the name of the OM secret. It's hard to know what to suggest here. If you have somewhere else to go, maybe move out until she gives that up. (Take legal advice before doing that. Some places it makes a legal difference in the event of divorce.)

Third, you need to figure out why the sex recently has been so infrequent. 

I would be looking at these, while figuring out if I want to reconcile.


----------



## Wazza

hurt808 said:


> I have asked quite a few times now. But she wants to have a "proper" conversation than "bickering". I think I am done. I clearly explained saying if you are hiding the person that means you care about OM/his family than our relationship. Still no answer.
> 
> She comes home puts on some music, hums along. Like nothing happened! Incredible!


The proper conversation may be a good thing, maybe. I don't know how you guys are. Are you a hot head? Is she pushy? 

My wife assumes that if she can avoid something blowing up, it will blow over, because that's how she is. I'm not. I have to confront issues and deal with them.

So during the aftermath of her affair, her take was "any more information will just make him more angry" so withholding information seemed like the best thing she could do. And I'm sitting there thinking up lots of scenarios far worse than what actually happened....

If your wife is trying to pretend everything is normal, do something to communicate that it's not. Maybe starting to prepare divorce paperwork is a good idea, if that's where it is going to end unless she gives you the name. Maybe leave for a few days. I don't know what, because I don't know you guys.


----------



## hurt808

Wazza said:


> The proper conversation may be a good thing, maybe. I don't know how you guys are. Are you a hot head? Is she pushy?
> 
> My wife assumes that if she can avoid something blowing up, it will blow over, because that's how she is. I'm not. I have to confront issues and deal with them.
> 
> So during the aftermath of her affair, her take was "any more information will just make him more angry" so withholding information seemed like the best thing she could do. And I'm sitting there thinking up lots of scenarios far worse than what actually happened....
> 
> If your wife is trying to pretend everything is normal, do something to communicate that it's not. Maybe starting to prepare divorce paperwork is a good idea, if that's where it is going to end unless she gives you the name. Maybe leave for a few days. I don't know what, because I don't know you guys.



I have been communicating via emails. Point by point. Mentioning my worries. She just side steps all my questions and some of them are blatant lies. When I told her to address these... straight away she says we need to have a conversation and stop bickering. 

I am not a hot head at all very calm and direct in approach. But she brings emotions in to the convo when we talk. Crying and saying I love you, you are my life, rather than answering my direct questions. Some of them she says she cant remember because she got a bad memory.

My gut feeling is this is over. I have given her plenty of chances since monday to come clean and let me know the names, what happened. but so far I have got nothing except for justifications not actual truth.


----------



## jld

hurt808 said:


> I have been communicating via emails. Point by point. Mentioning my worries. She just side steps all my questions and some of them are blatant lies. When I told her to address these... straight away she says we need to have a conversation and stop bickering.
> 
> I am not a hot head at all very calm and direct in approach. But she brings emotions in to the convo when we talk. Crying and saying I love you, you are my life, rather than answering my direct questions. Some of them she says she cant remember because she got a bad memory.
> 
> My gut feeling is this is over. I have given her plenty of chances since monday to come clean and let me know the names, what happened. but so far I have got nothing except for justifications not actual truth.


She knows you know about the reddit post, right?


----------



## Wazza

hurt808 said:


> I have been communicating via emails. Point by point. Mentioning my worries. She just side steps all my questions and some of them are blatant lies. When I told her to address these... straight away she says we need to have a conversation and stop bickering.
> 
> I am not a hot head at all very calm and direct in approach. But she brings emotions in to the convo when we talk. Crying and saying I love you, you are my life, rather than answering my direct questions. Some of them she says she cant remember because she got a bad memory.
> 
> My gut feeling is this is over. I have given her plenty of chances since monday to come clean and let me know the names, what happened. but so far I have got nothing except for justifications not actual truth.


Names...plural? You believe there is more than one guy?

Do you want it to be over? I can talk to you about things you can try, but if you are done I don't want to waste your time or make a painful situation worse.


----------



## Yeswecan

hurt808 said:


> I have asked quite a few times now. But she wants to have a "proper" conversation than "bickering". I think I am done. I clearly explained saying if you are hiding the person that means you care about OM/his family than our relationship. Still no answer.
> 
> She comes home puts on some music, hums along. Like nothing happened! Incredible!


Carpet sweeping. Stick to your guns.


----------



## hurt808

jld said:


> She knows you know about the reddit post, right?


Yes, she knows. She deleted the post straight away. Logged in to my email and deleted the post i sent to my self as well. But she doesnt know that once you put something online it says online. 

I work in IT so I can do quite a bit of snooping.


----------



## hurt808

Wazza said:


> Names...plural? You believe there is more than one guy?
> 
> Do you want it to be over? I can talk to you about things you can try, but if you are done I don't want to waste your time or make a painful situation worse.


Well she said another guy kissed her neck last saturday. Thats what she was searching online to see what it means, and it was in the browsing history. That's how I started looking through her accounts.


----------



## TRy

hurt808 said:


> I have asked quite a few times now. But she wants to have a "proper" conversation than "bickering". I think I am done. I clearly explained saying if you are hiding the person that means you care about OM/his family than our relationship. Still no answer.
> 
> She comes home puts on some music, hums along. Like nothing happened! Incredible!


 Since she cheated on you with another man, divorce is the assumed unless she does what is needed by you to give her the gift of reconciliation. Full remorse with full transparency are the two most basic thing a cheater must willingly give in order to even ask for a second chance. Full remorse, because it makes no sense to forgive what they are not really sorry for, and full transparency because you need to know what you are being asked to forgive. She is not giving you either one. Until she is willing to do the most basic things to earn a chance at reconciliation, you should not even be thinking of giving it to her. Move on and let her be the one to make the effort to try to stop you from leaving her. Right now you have it backwards, where you are making all of the effort, as she hums along to music and makes no effort.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Hello Hurt808 and sorry to have you here. I would have responded sooner but had all kinds of trouble with this password reset thing on this forum. Anyway, here are my thoughts:


First of all I am a bit confused about what she has done so far - do you think this has gone physical ? If so how do you know ? If not then we are talking about an emotional affair ?


This is an important question in order to understand your situation - is your main concern that you have lost her heart OR that she has given her heart to this [email protected] ? Think about the difference here and what I am asking.


Is what she said about you in Reddit true ? Did you tell her that her high sex drive is abnormal for a woman ? If that is true then it was downright stupid of you and you really need to fix it even if you don't intend to increase the amount of intimacy. Also are you not into showing emotions through being affectionate publicly ? If so, then as others are saying, your 17 year old gf has now matured into a woman and you may not be the right partner for her. This is not saying divorce her because she did something wrong (which she did but we'll get to that in a minute) but because you made a "mistake" in pursuing and marrying a virtual child - by the way how much older are you than her ?



Now as to what she has done, she needs to learn about boundaries etc for her own sake as much as yours and she needs to realise that going after a married man with kids is WRONG! 

Also she needs to understand that the POS is a predator and is playing her perfectly. 

You need to inform his wife asap to shut this down and if you are 98% sure of who he is and have evidence of their affair, then do it now (its worth the risk that you may have got the wrong man - ELSE get a VAR and go into snoop mode and find out who he is).


Can this be fixed (assuming she is still attracted to you) ? Yes and mainly by you having to do some work here - BUT only after you have shut the affair down and she realises it was wrong. Then, you have to work on understanding what she needs (not just wants) and working with her to see if you can give it to her and then just doing it or separating. You have to readjust yourself to now being with a woman and not a child!

Good luck.


----------



## hurt808

manfromlamancha said:


> Hello Hurt808 and sorry to have you here. I would have responded sooner but had all kinds of trouble with this password reset thing on this forum. Anyway, here are my thoughts:
> 
> 
> First of all I am a bit confused about what she has done so far - do you think this has gone physical ? If so how do you know ? If not then we are talking about an emotional affair ?
> *I think it went physical but she is giving nothing away, even if it didn't, emotional one is hard to comprehend*
> 
> 
> This is an important question in order to understand your situation - is your main concern that you have lost her heart OR that she has given her heart to this [email protected] ? Think about the difference here and what I am asking.
> *I think she has given her heart to this [email protected] That's why she is protecting him*
> 
> Is what she said about you in Reddit true ? Did you tell her that her high sex drive is abnormal for a woman ? If that is true then it was downright stupid of you and you really need to fix it even if you don't intend to increase the amount of intimacy. Also are you not into showing emotions through being affectionate publicly ? If so, then as others are saying, your 17 year old gf has now matured into a woman and you may not be the right partner for her. This is not saying divorce her because she did something wrong (which she did but we'll get to that in a minute) but because you made a "mistake" in pursuing and marrying a virtual child - by the way how much older are you than her ?
> *I didn't say she is abnormal, I said she has a high sex drive. I said we can work at it. We were getting fairly fat then, I said lets workout and get to a good shape then we can do this more often et. But when she lost her weight she got a lot of attention from men. She started loving it, dressing better etc etc. Which of course would have help our sex life as well. But as soon as she got this OMs attention she fell for him. I had no attention for the last 6 months. By the way I am 6 years elder to her*
> 
> 
> 
> Now as to what she has done, she needs to learn about boundaries etc for her own sake as much as yours and she needs to realise that going after a married man with kids is WRONG!
> 
> Also she needs to understand that the POS is a predator and is playing her perfectly.
> 
> You need to inform his wife asap to shut this down and if you are 98% sure of who he is and have evidence of their affair, then do it now (its worth the risk that you may have got the wrong man - ELSE get a VAR and go into snoop mode and find out who he is).
> 
> 
> Can this be fixed (assuming she is still attracted to you) ? Yes and mainly by you having to do some work here - BUT only after you have shut the affair down and she realises it was wrong. Then, you have to work on understanding what she needs (not just wants) and working with her to see if you can give it to her and then just doing it or separating. You have to readjust yourself to now being with a woman and not a child!
> *Whatever it is I think I am coming to terms with getting a divorce, would be good for both of us*
> Good luck.


----------



## Wazza

hurt808 said:


> Well she said another guy kissed her neck last saturday. Thats what she was searching online to see what it means, and it was in the browsing history. That's how I started looking through her accounts.


Ok, so what does she propose to do differently? 

I thought it was the first guy who kissed her on the neck. If a second guy is touching her and she's allowing it, that is a bigger problem. Particularly since its current.

Have you spoken to a lawyer? I ask not because I am presupposing divorce, but because you need to know your legal options in making decisions.


----------



## hurt808

Wazza said:


> Ok, so what does she propose to do differently?
> 
> I thought it was the first guy who kissed her on the neck. If a second guy is touching her and she's allowing it, that is a bigger problem. Particularly since its current.
> 
> Have you spoken to a lawyer? I ask not because I am presupposing divorce, but because you need to know your legal options in making decisions.


I haven't yet. But I will need to find a good lawyer and read up a bit more on this. Thanks


----------



## Wazza

I don't think it went physical with the EA. I know how that question eats at you, but I'm assuming her reddit post, which she never intended you to see, is probably broadly accurate.

The question is what she has been doing since.

Does she plan to go out without you this weekend?


----------



## EleGirl

hurt808 said:


> My gut feeling is this is over. I have given her plenty of chances since monday to come clean and let me know the names, what happened. but so far I have got nothing except for justifications not actual truth.



From what your wife posted, you have not really been into your wife for a long time. It sounds like she has realized this and is existing the marriage emotionally. She chose a bad way to do it, but that's what it sounds like.

I think your marriage is over. It's divorce time.


----------



## EleGirl

hurt808 said:


> Hello I am the OP. Somehow my account is not accessible anymore. I am 33. I agree with you. I think we are pretty incompatible too. We have different interests etc in life. May be we got together too early.


TAM is in the process of getting everyone to change their passwords to a new, much stronger password format. You need to get your password reset on your original account. I will then ban this account since multiple accounts are not allowed on TAM.

Once you have logged off of this account, go to the link below to get a password reset on your original account.

Talk About Marriage - Lost Password Recovery Form


----------



## Wazza

EleGirl said:


> TAM is in the process of getting everyone to change their passwords to a new, much stronger password format. You need to get your password reset on your original account. I will then ban this account since multiple accounts are not allowed on TAM.
> 
> Once you have logged off of this account, go to the link below to get a password reset on your original account.
> 
> Talk About Marriage - Lost Password Recovery Form


Password reset took two days and multiple attempts. Just making sure you guys knew it was not smooth.


----------



## Wazza

EleGirl said:


> From what your wife posted, you have not really been into your wife for a long time. It sounds like she has realized this and is existing the marriage emotionally. She chose a bad way to do it, but that's what it sounds like.
> 
> I think your marriage is over. It's divorce time.


Marriages go through dry patches, they can come back.

Having said that, it's not going to come back unless she puts some work in, and you can't control that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

I have to agree with the last two posters...

She was involved in an EA and I'm not justifying her behavior. It was wrong. But it sounds like you made mistakes too. I think people are letting you off easy by saying how horrible she she is, and shame on her.

She should have ended the marriage rather than getting involved with another man. She needs to own that, and come clean with who he is. She needs to earn your trust and forgiveness. It was not your fault.

But you have work to do too. Even if you divorce, you have things that you need to work on for your next relationship.

Coming from a woman with a high sex drive who was rejected a lot, YOU were also wrong. You were wrong to tell her she was abnormal, and you were wrong to think that sex once every 2 weeks is okay when she was telling you she needed more. She asked for affection, and you gave lame excuses. 

I mean really, did you expect her to just suck it up and be miserable forever? What did you think would happen? She lost weight, which probably boosted her drive even more, and you still didn't do anything about it. There is nothing wrong with you being lower drive than her, but you handled it badly. It sounds like it was all about you, and you didn't really care how she felt. (This is just the way I'm reading it, I could be wrong.) 

You even went as far as to say you would have rather her had a PA than an EA, which gives a lot of insight to how little of importance, sex is to you.

Communication, compromise, and love is needed in a relationship with such differences. It sounds like you both dropped the ball on this. 

If it was flipped around and it was a man whose wife was LD everyone would be on his side, and wouldn't be shocked if he started to have wandering eyes. They would say, poor him, can you really blame him, he can't live without sex, etc. It's such a double standard. 

It sounds to me like both of you would be happier apart. Neither of you seem too keen on putting in the hard work and effort needed to repair the damage from the infidelity, and the years of rejection. IMO.


----------



## hurt808

Wazza said:


> I don't think it went physical with the EA. I know how that question eats at you, but I'm assuming her reddit post, which she never intended you to see, is probably broadly accurate.
> 
> The question is what she has been doing since.
> 
> Does she plan to go out without you this weekend?


She has gone out without me since then. Also before she used to ask me to come out with colleagues when they are leaving etc. But for her own leaving do she didn't invite me.

This humming thing she is doing is soo funny. She never used to do this, now doing it really loudly, even if I turn the TV up she does it louder. I have no idea what message she is trying to get through to me.


----------



## Yeswecan

hurt808 said:


> I have no idea what message she is trying to get through to me.


It appears your W is attempting to make all seem right in the world and not affected by your upset. Draw up some papers for D. The humming will stop.


----------



## EleGirl

Wazza said:


> Marriages go through dry patches, they can come back.
> 
> Having said that, it's not going to come back unless she puts some work in, and you can't control that.


I've told plenty of men on TAM to get a divorce when their wife refused them sex and/or when she was telling them that their sex drive is not normal.

I'll tell any woman the same thing. According to the wife's post, he had no interest in fixing their sex life and being affectionate. He blew her off for both for a long time. She should have just divorced him. I would have. I would never stay with a man who told me that my sex drive is abnormal and refused sex.

I think that happened is that when the guy at work told her his interest in her, it woke her up that she does not have to put up with a loveless marriage.

If she is having an affair, PA, she's clearly wrong in having an exit affair. But from what is said so far, she is no longer interested in the marriage.

And the OP says that they have never had anything in common anyway. So I'm not sure what he's holding on to.

She is already gone... just has not filed the papers yet. The OP should probably go ahead and do it now.


----------



## EleGirl

Wazza said:


> Password reset took two days and multiple attempts. Just making sure you guys knew it was not smooth.


Yes, I know that it is not going well. But as a mod there is nothing I can do since I have no access to the server, the software, etc. The admins seem to be aware and seem to be in over their heads. From what I've read, the TAM email servers are so overloaded from people asking for password resets that they are often unable to sent out the reset emails. 

This is why I did not just ban the OP right out of the gate for having 2 accounts. I'm giving him time to solve the issue. One of his accounts has to be banned. But he has a window to go back to the original one if he choses to do so.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

EleGirl said:


> I've told plenty of men on TAM to get a divorce when their wife refused them sex and/or when she was telling them that their sex drive is not normal.
> 
> I'll tell any woman the same thing. According to the wife's post, he had no interest in fixing their sex life and being affectionate. He blew her off for both for a long time. She should have just divorced him. I would have. I would never stay with a man who told me that my sex drive is abnormal and refused sex.
> 
> I think that happened is that when the guy at work told her his interest in her, it woke her up that she does not have to put up with a loveless marriage.
> 
> If she is having an affair, PA, she's clearly wrong in having an exit affair. But from what is said so far, she is no longer interested in the marriage.
> 
> And the OP says that they have never had anything in common anyway. So I'm not sure what he's holding on to.
> 
> She is already gone... just has not filed the papers yet. The OP should probably go ahead and do it now.


:iagree: 100%


----------



## Lostinthought61

hurt808 said:


> She has gone out without me since then. Also before she used to ask me to come out with colleagues when they are leaving etc. But for her own leaving do she didn't invite me.
> 
> This humming thing she is doing is soo funny. She never used to do this, now doing it really loudly, even if I turn the TV up she does it louder. I have no idea what message she is trying to get through to me.


Hurt, don't you see what she is doing she is blaming you for not being happy with the OM, she has purposely shut you out of her life, or has purposely made it inconvenience for you at home...she is mad at you.
No offense Hurt but when a re you going to stop acting like a doormat and get mad, when are you going to step up to the plate...from where i see it she is holding all the cards because she is calling your buff. and she is winning.


----------



## hurt8288

EleGirl said:


> I've told plenty of men on TAM to get a divorce when their wife refused them sex and/or when she was telling them that their sex drive is not normal.
> 
> I'll tell any woman the same thing. According to the wife's post, he had no interest in fixing their sex life and being affectionate. He blew her off for both for a long time. She should have just divorced him. I would have. I would never stay with a man who told me that my sex drive is abnormal and refused sex.
> 
> I think that happened is that when the guy at work told her his interest in her, it woke her up that she does not have to put up with a loveless marriage.
> 
> If she is having an affair, PA, she's clearly wrong in having an exit affair. But from what is said so far, she is no longer interested in the marriage.
> 
> And the OP says that they have never had anything in common anyway. So I'm not sure what he's holding on to.
> 
> She is already gone... just has not filed the papers yet. The OP should probably go ahead and do it now.


Then why is she crying everyday to get back together. Saying she will never do this again blah blah. 

She calls our marriage a sexless one. But we had sex at least once a week when this all happened. I never called her abnormal. I said she has got a high sex drive, which is true.

Thing that happened was she never had male interest because she was a bigger girl and didn't dress sexy. Now she lost a bit of weight (which was a thing we both started doing so we could enjoy sex a little bit better) she started dressing sexy with new shoes etc etc. Then she got the attention and fell for it. 

I wish she just stopped nagging and agreed the divorce.


----------



## hurt8288

Xenote said:


> Hurt, don't you see what she is doing she is blaming you for not being happy with the OM, she has purposely shut you out of her life, or has purposely made it inconvenience for you at home...she is mad at you.
> No offense Hurt but when a re you going to stop acting like a doormat and get mad, when are you going to step up to the plate...from where i see it she is holding all the cards because she is calling your buff. and she is winning.



I think I dont need to get mad, make a scene. I will file a divorce.


----------



## Lostinthought61

hurt8288 said:


> I think I dont need to get mad, make a scene. I will file a divorce.


then file and take back your life, she is no longer the woman you married.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

hurt808 said:


> I have been communicating via emails. Point by point. Mentioning my worries. She just side steps all my questions and some of them are blatant lies. When I told her to address these... straight away she says we need to have a conversation and stop bickering.
> 
> I am not a hot head at all very calm and direct in approach. But she brings emotions in to the convo when we talk. Crying and saying I love you, you are my life, rather than answering my direct questions. Some of them she says she cant remember because she got a bad memory.
> 
> My gut feeling is this is over. I have given her plenty of chances since monday to come clean and let me know the names, what happened. but so far I have got nothing except for justifications not actual truth.


Sir, you know what you must do. You are not going to nice her back.
Please quit being a doormat. If she truly cared about you she would not treat you this way


----------



## TRy

EleGirl said:


> From what your wife posted, you have not really been into your wife for a long time. It sounds like she has realized this and is existing the marriage emotionally. She chose a bad way to do it, but that's what it sounds like.


 The OP contradicted his wife's claim about sex when he posted early on in a direct response to this claim by his wife that "we still had sex 4-5 times (i initiated it) but she said she is not in to sex that much anymore.. which was a total lie." It sounds lie to me that once the wife was caught up in her emotional affair ("EA") with her other man, she was trying to rationalize her cheating to herself by reinventing history. As is common in these situations, it was the EA that killed the intimacy in their marriage and not the other way around.


----------



## hurt8288

Xenote said:


> then file and take back your life, she is no longer the woman you married.


Yes, I dont know who she is anymore.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

hurt8288 said:


> Then why is she crying everyday to get back together. Saying she will never do this again blah blah.
> 
> She calls our marriage a sexless one. But we had sex at least once a week when this all happened. I never called her abnormal. I said she has got a high sex drive, which is true.
> 
> Thing that happened was she never had male interest because she was a bigger girl and didn't dress sexy. Now she lost a bit of weight (which was a thing we both started doing so we could enjoy sex a little bit better) she started dressing sexy with new shoes etc etc. Then she got the attention and fell for it.
> 
> I wish she just stopped nagging and agreed the divorce.


If you are HD, then going without for a week or more (You said every two weeks in your first post) DOES feel sexless when you desire to have sex every day. Even when you talk about it now, you are dismissing her needs. Why is your opinion/desires more important than hers?

You call her voicing her needs as nagging. Really? 

I know you're upset and rightfully so, but you sound extremely selfish and self centered. Earlier you stated that you would have more sex with her if she lost weight, and she did. Then you blew her off, and you're surprised that she fell for another man who showed her love/affection? Probably when she was at a low point and feeling rejected and unloved. Why was intimacy a bargaining chip in the first place? Even after she followed through with your request, and looked/felt better than she ever has you still paid her no attention.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

TRy said:


> The OP contradicted his wife's claim about sex when he posted early on in a direct response to this claim by his wife that "we still had sex 4-5 times (i initiated it) but she said she is not in to sex that much anymore.. which was a total lie." It sounds lie to me that once the wife was caught up in her emotional affair ("EA") with her other man, she was trying to rationalize her cheating to herself by reinventing history.


He said they have had sex 4-5 times SINCE February I believe. That's like once a month.

And it's probably not a lie. It's probably true, she isn't into sex with HIM anymore. I can't say I blame her to tell you the truth. I've struggled with a lack of affection, and a husband who thinks his LD is more important than my HD feelings. It sucks! I had many times where I didn't feel like having sex with him, even when I was the HD one because of hurt feelings. 

Obviously his wife made a huge mistake and his feelings are rational. But at the same time, I think he has played his part in the marriage crumbling. (The cheating is all on her.) Honestly when I was going through all my issues with rejection, I think it hurt me almost as much as cheating would have.


----------



## TRy

hurt8288 said:


> She calls our marriage a sexless one. But we had sex at least once a week when this all happened.


 Studies show that sex 1-2 times a week is the norm, thus them having "sex at least once a week" is in no way a sexless marriage. Further support that the wife was reinventing history to rationalize her affair with the other man as so many cheaters do. As I said before "it was the EA that killed the intimacy in their marriage and not the other way around."


----------



## hurt8288

TheCuriousWife said:


> I know you're upset and rightfully so, but you sound extremely selfish and self centered. Earlier you stated that you would have more sex with her if she lost weight, and she did. Then you blew her off, and you're surprised that she fell for another man who showed her love/affection? Probably when she was at a low point and feeling rejected and unloved. Why was intimacy a bargaining chip in the first place? Even after she followed through with your request, and looked/felt better than she ever has you still paid her no attention.


Thanks, for your opinion. I always commented on her losing weight, new shoes. As soon as she started dressing nice she got attention, I never blew her off I never rejected sex. In fact it was the opposite. 

when I sent flowers to her work on valentines day she thought it was from the OM and there is a transcript of the messages I found in her email. She was embarrassed because she thought they were from him and asked him.

You say she felt unloved, I have done so much for her. I looked after her when she had cancer lovingly. Cooked nice meals every other day or more. Took her out to movies, meals, as she mentions in the post three week holiday. 

If she feels unloved after all that,... thanks for calling me self centred.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

TRy said:


> Studies show that sex 1-2 times a week is the norm, thus them having "sex at least once a week" is in no way a sexless marriage. Further support that the wife was reinventing history to rationalize her affair with the other man as so many cheaters do.





hurt8288 said:


> Although she says its sexless we had sex at least once in two week until December when this all started.


When my sex drive was off the charts I wanted sex every day. After a day or two I would start getting cranky. If two weeks had gone by I would seriously be irritable, crying myself to sleep, questioning if he loved me, etc. 

We can agree to disagree.


----------



## hurt8288

TheCuriousWife said:


> When my sex drive was off the charts I wanted sex every day. After a day or two I would start getting cranky. If two weeks had gone by I would seriously be irritable, crying myself to sleep, questioning if he loved me, etc.
> 
> We can agree to disagree.


It is sad that some people look at sex as the only thing that matters in a relationship. I certainly dont view it that way. Sex is part of it but relationship should not depend 90% on sex and 10% rest.

If your husband didnt have sex, it doesnt mean he doesnt love you or he doesnt think you are sexy, beautiful. Could be stressed out from work, tired, etc etc.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks, for your opinion. I always commented on her losing weight, new shoes. As soon as she started dressing nice she got attention, I never blew her off I never rejected sex. In fact it was the opposite.
> 
> when I sent flowers to her work on valentines day she thought it was from the OM and there is a transcript of the messages I found in her email. She was embarrassed because she thought they were from him and asked him.
> 
> You say she felt unloved, I have done so much for her. I looked after her when she had cancer lovingly. Cooked nice meals every other day or more. Took her out to movies, meals, as she mentions in the post three week holiday.
> 
> If she feels unloved after all that,... thanks for calling me self centred.


I'm not saying that you didn't take good care of her and show her love.

My husband has always loved me, and didn't want to purposely hurt me. He complimented me, told me daily he loved me, and bought me presents, etc. We went through sex and marriage counseling and he was adamant that he showed and told me he loved me every day, and he did. *But it wasn't in the way I needed. * Have you ever read the 5 love languages? That helped us see each others side a lot better. 

I'm not saying either one of you was right in everything or wrong in everything. I think you both messed up.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

hurt8288 said:


> It is sad that some people look at sex as the only thing that matters in a relationship. I certainly dont view it that way. Sex is part of it but relationship should not depend 90% on sex and 10% rest.
> 
> If your husband didnt have sex, it doesnt mean he doesnt love you or he doesnt think you are sexy, beautiful. Could be stressed out from work, tired, etc etc.


It's NOT the only thing that matters. That is the words spoken from a LD person, who doesn't fully understand.

This quote was posted in my thread before and it's a good one. "Sex is 10% of a good relationship, and 90% of a bad one."

It basically means sex isn't an issue, until it is. It's like a starving person. When you are starving all you can think about is food. You can't concentrate on anything else. But if you eat regularly, it's just something that happens and you don't really put much thought into it. You know if you skip a meal, or the food is nasty, you'll just eat again later. No big deal.

Please be aware I'm not attacking you. I just want to make you aware that emotions/self worth can be tied very strongly to sex and affection. Your wife might have very well suffering for a long time and much more than you realize.


----------



## TRy

hurt8288 said:


> You say she felt unloved, I have done so much for her. I looked after her when she had cancer lovingly. Cooked nice meals every other day or more. Took her out to movies, meals, as she mentions in the post three week holiday.
> 
> If she feels unloved after all that,... thanks for calling me self centred.


 Do not let it get to you. There are a certain number of posters on this site the always find a way to blame the man. If the man cheats on a woman, then they say he is self centered. If a woman cheats on a man, then they say she cheated on him because he was self-centered and did not meet her needs. You cannot win with them. To them the woman is never completely to blame.


----------



## EleGirl

hurt8288 said:


> Then why is she crying everyday to get back together. Saying she will never do this again blah blah.


You said that she is distant and will not talk. But she wrote some notes. She is confused. It’s normal for a person to be confused under these circumstances. But she is not going out of her way to repair the marriage. Sometimes it takes a person a while to come back into a marriage. You do not seem willing to give it anytime. 


hurt8288 said:


> She calls our marriage a sexless one. But we had sex at least once a week when this all happened. I never called her abnormal. I said she has got a high sex drive, which is true.


You might have been having sex at least once a week at the time this happened, but according to what your wife wrote it was a few years where that was not the case. And apparently between your not wanting sex with her much during the past and you not being the affectionate type, it took a toll on her bond to you. That’s what happens when there is a lack of intimacy and affection. Your wife wrote about it:

The past few years have been the most difficult as he’s been so distant and unresponsive to anything I try to do or suggest to improve the situation. I have a v. high sex drive, which for years he convinced me was abnormal for a woman. We basically have what they call ‘a sexless marriage’. Not only that, but it also lacks any kind of affection because he is “not the affectionate type”.

Now either y our wife is just a liar or she’s telling her truth from her point of view. Her point of view is as important as yours is. 

IF she is a liar, why would you want to be with her? Why not just file for divorce?




hurt8288 said:


> Thing that happened was she never had male interest because she was a bigger girl and didn't dress sexy. Now she lost a bit of weight (which was a thing we both started doing so we could enjoy sex a little bit better) she started dressing sexy with new shoes etc etc. Then she got the attention and fell for it.


Ok, so you were a perfect husband but she just likes male attention. So why do you want to be married to her?


hurt8288 said:


> I wish she just stopped nagging and agreed the divorce.


What is she nagging about? 

You don’t need her to agree to a divorce. You can get one without her agreeing.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

TRy said:


> Do not let it get to you. There are a certain number of posters on this site the always find a way to blame the man. If the man cheats on a woman, then they say he is self centered. If a woman cheats on a man, then they say she cheated on him because he was self-centered and did not meet her needs. You cannot win with them. To them the woman is never completely to blame.


I have no such standard. 

I am also not blaming him for her actions. SHE cheated. He did not force her to do that. She made that choice. 

But if he ever wants to have a happy relationship in the future he needs to see where things started going downhill. Which includes learning to listen to the needs of others. 

Just trying to give a look into "the other side."


----------



## EleGirl

hurt8288 said:


> Thanks, for your opinion. I always commented on her losing weight, new shoes. As soon as she started dressing nice she got attention, I never blew her off I never rejected sex. In fact it was the opposite.
> 
> when I sent flowers to her work on valentines day she thought it was from the OM and there is a transcript of the messages I found in her email. She was embarrassed because she thought they were from him and asked him.
> 
> *You say she felt unloved,* I have done so much for her. I looked after her when she had cancer lovingly. Cooked nice meals every other day or more. Took her out to movies, meals, as she mentions in the post three week holiday.
> 
> If she feels unloved after all that,... thanks for calling me self centred.


No, your wife said that she felt unloved.

If you want to stay married, you will need to talk to your wife about that.


----------



## TheCuriousWife

EleGirl you are much more eloquent than me.


----------



## larry.gray

EleGirl said:


> I've told plenty of men on TAM to get a divorce when their wife refused them sex and/or when she was telling them that their sex drive is not normal.
> 
> I'll tell any woman the same thing. According to the wife's post, he had no interest in fixing their sex life and being affectionate. He blew her off for both for a long time. She should have just divorced him. I would have. I would never stay with a man who told me that my sex drive is abnormal and refused sex.


I'm hypocritical in my advice. There are far fewer men who won't step up to match a wife's higher drive. A HD woman has very low odds of being back in the same boat in a future relationship. She's got a lower downside so should be more willing to take the plunge.


----------



## larry.gray

TRy said:


> Do not let it get to you. There are a certain number of posters on this site the always find a way to blame the man. If the man cheats on a woman, then they say he is self centered. If a woman cheats on a man, then they say she cheated on him because he was self-centered and did not meet her needs. You cannot win with them. To them the woman is never completely to blame.


TCW is NOT one of 'those women.' 

I've always found her to be very fair.


----------



## EleGirl

larry.gray said:


> I'm hypocritical in my advice. There are far fewer men who won't step up to match a wife's higher drive. A HD woman has very low odds of being back in the same boat in a future relationship. She's got a lower downside so should be more willing to take the plunge.


Actually, men are as likely as women to make a marriage sexless or near sexless. I know that it goes against stereotypes because we are always told stupid things like men always want sex.


----------



## larry.gray

EleGirl said:


> Actually, men are as likely as women to make a marriage sexless or near sexless. I know that it goes against stereotypes because we are always told stupid things like men always want sex.


I agree on the sexless. But sexless is easy to deal with. You leave.

I'm talking about cases close enough to keep you on the hook. Men usually are on or off. And if they are on, they'll meet their wife's needs.


----------



## TRy

EleGirl said:


> No, your wife said that she felt unloved.
> 
> If you want to stay married, you will need to talk to your wife about that.


 The wife was in the middle of an affair when she said that she felt unloved by her spouse. People in affairs almost always say these things. Why is it that you feel that the OP must address her affair fog views on the marriage as if they are the God given truth, while ignoring the his own views of reality? When you look at the fact that the wife also said "My SO is amazing and means the world to me. We’ve been through so much together, including fighting the big C", the OP actually sounds like a pretty good spouse. Maybe not perfect, but nobody is.


----------



## Wazza

You can see that problems have been brewing for a while. You have to be realistic about a couple of things.

First, that if you fix things it will take a while. 

Second, that it takes both of you to fix things. If either of you chooses not to, there is nothing much the other can do. Based on what you say, I think your wife is probably torn on the question.

So you have been talking about leaning towards divorce. Is that what you think? (I am expecting your feelings are a roller coaster right now, but maybe you are clear in your head). 

It sounds to me like some counselling is needed to get you guys talking of you want to take another shot at it. I don't think you can possibly get that here, because we are only hearing your side. 

The thing to rememberer is, if you can get through this patch, you will both have improved skills for working on the relationship, because you learn them as you sort out the problems. A relationship can actually be stronger as a result. But it doesn't always happen. 

So do you know what you want?


----------



## Wazza

TRy said:


> The wife was in the middle of an affair when she said that she felt unloved by her spouse. People in affairs almost always say these things. Why is it that you feel that the OP must address her affair fog views on the marriage as if they are the God given truth, while ignoring the his own views of reality? When you look at the fact that the wife also said "My SO is amazing and means the world to me. We’ve been through so much together, including fighting the big C", the OP actually sounds like a pretty good spouse. Maybe not perfect, but nobody is.


Her feelings are her reality. Like it or not. If you ignore them you will get nowhere. Talking about them might be part of helping his wife work through them.

That doesn't mean enabling or supporting, but it does mean seeking to understand. All Elegirl said was he has to talk to his wife. Would you suggest he ignore her?


----------



## sokillme

hurt808 said:


> I have asked quite a few times now. But she wants to have a "proper" conversation than "bickering". I think I am done. I clearly explained saying if you are hiding the person that means you care about OM/his family than our relationship. Still no answer.
> 
> She comes home puts on some music, hums along. Like nothing happened! Incredible!



Why should she, your all talk. There has been very little consequences. I told you what to do but you won't do it. 

Where was she that some guy kissed her on the neck, who does she think she is fooling when she says she doesn't know what that means? Where is she going this weekend? When are you going to leaven her break contact and give her some real consequence.


----------



## sokillme

TheCuriousWife said:


> I have to agree with the last two posters...
> 
> She was involved in an EA and I'm not justifying her behavior. It was wrong. But it sounds like you made mistakes too. I think people are letting you off easy by saying how horrible she she is, and shame on her.
> ....
> 
> If it was flipped around and it was a man whose wife was LD everyone would be on his side, and wouldn't be shocked if he started to have wandering eyes. They would say, poor him, can you really blame him, he can't live without sex, etc. It's such a double standard.



I wouldn't be saying poor him if he cheated, quit projecting. Why couldn't she handle this like an adult. "This is a deal breaker for me" and walked. I mean that is why people are getting on her. I am sick of justifications for people when they act like as_holes. Marriage is for better of for worse. I can even agree that she could walk but enough with the (I am not getting what I need so I am going to sh_t all over the person I supposedly love). You know who acts like this, animals and children. Oh and assh_les. It's a lot more then, she didn't handle it right. Cheating destroys people, has deep long term effects, there is no justifications none. 

Cheating is just as painful and to me just as wrong as when someone punches their SO. It's emotional abuse. I guarantee no one here would be going on about what a woman did wrong if a guy punched her. At that point who cares if she was in his face and say the worse things possible. The guy who punched is garbage. The same goes for cheating you crossed the line and don't diverse any sympathy at least until you apologize and change. 

I would never take the word of a liar and a cheater anyway, do so at your own risk. But say she didn't get the D as much as she wanted, so what doesn't make him a bad husband. Physically neglectful maybe, maybe she was grossly overweight and he wasn't attracted to her anymore. Guys parts don't always work when that is the case. Maybe she just laid there like a potato. Maybe she expected him to do all the work. Point is all we have is the word of a cheater. It sucks that he came on here crushed because his wife fell for some high school lines an half the people on here are taking her side. Mostly because THEY have bad marriages. Besides that, whose to say she is going to find a man to love her, I am sure she will find plenty to f_ck her. Bet after dating a guy who is quick to give her sex all the time but not much else she will miss the guy who helped her through cancer.


----------



## sokillme

TRy said:


> The OP contradicted his wife's claim about sex when he posted early on in a direct response to this claim by his wife that "we still had sex 4-5 times (i initiated it) but she said she is not in to sex that much anymore.. which was a total lie." It sounds lie to me that once the wife was caught up in her emotional affair ("EA") with her other man, she was trying to rationalize her cheating to herself by reinventing history. As is common in these situations, it was the EA that killed the intimacy in their marriage and not the other way around.


Agree, also doesn't sounds like for a long time she was heavy and OP might not have been attracted to a bigger girl. She loses some weight and gets attention and OP is forgotten. This woman is a child.


----------



## Wazza

sokillme said:


> Where is she going this weekend?


I think this is an important question.


----------



## sokillme

Wazza said:


> Her feelings are her reality. Like it or not. If you ignore them you will get nowhere. Talking about them might be part of helping his wife work through them.
> 
> That doesn't mean enabling or supporting, but it does mean seeking to understand. All Elegirl said was he has to talk to his wife. Would you suggest he ignore her?


Reality and justified are two different things. Cheaters always feel justified who give a crap what they think at that point.


----------



## Wazza

sokillme said:


> Reality and justified are two different things. Cheaters always feel justified who give a crap what they think at that point.


If you want to put the relationship back together you have to engage with what the other person thinks. That doesn't mean you are endorsing the wrong they have done.


----------



## sokillme

Wazza said:


> If you want to put the relationship back together you have to engage with what the other person thinks. That doesn't mean you are endorsing the wrong they have done.


Until a cheater accepts responsibility for their cheating, really understands what it is they did, the true magnitude, there is no point in trying to fix the marriage. Half the time these people cheat because they are totally broken, and have one form of mental illness or another so their perception could be a delusion.

I will give you an example, my ex-step father was verbally abusive to my mother, and sometimes me. In your face, slam the door, curse you out. Like a bratty child. I used to see it all the time, I had to move out so we wouldn't come to blows. 

His perception was my mom was nagging him, and that was why he could act the way he did. Well she was getting on him, why because he used to say and do stupid sh!t all the time that caused him to lose jobs, blow money and basically be a piss poor husband/person. Then he would scream and act a fool when called on it. What would be the point of my Mom trying to fix his reality. His reality was distorted justifications for his ridiculous behavior. 

This is why posts like this right now are pointless. We have NO idea, OP came on here to get help to fix the immediate problem of his wife's cheating. All we have to go on is a letter written by someone in the throes of an affair. Later If she owns up to what she did, and she is willing to do the hard work to fix it, and OP is willing to forgive her, then he they can figure out if these things really were a problem in their marriage or maybe his wife is just an entitled person. Wouldn't be the first.

Again I am never going to critique a person's relationship on the words of a known liar.


----------



## eric1

Xenote said:


> then file and take back your life, she is no longer the woman you married.




I like you


----------



## Wazza

sokillme said:


> Until a cheater accepts responsibility for their cheating, really understands what it is they did, the true magnitude, there is no point in trying to fix the marriage. Half the time these people cheat because they are totally broken, and have one form of mental illness or another so their perception could be a delusion.
> 
> I will give you an example, my ex-step father was verbally abusive to my mother, and sometimes me. In your face, slam the door, curse you out. Like a bratty child. I used to see it all the time, I had to move out so we wouldn't come to blows.
> 
> His perception was my mom was nagging him, and that was why he could act the way he did. Well she was getting on him, why because he used to say and do stupid sh!t all the time that caused him to lose jobs, blow money and basically be a piss poor husband/person. Then he would scream and act a fool when called on it. What would be the point of my Mom trying to fix his reality. His reality was distorted justifications for his ridiculous behavior.
> 
> This is why posts like this right now are pointless. We have NO idea, OP came on here to get help to fix the immediate problem of his wife's cheating. All we have to go on is a letter written by someone in the throes of an affair. Later If she owns up to what she did, and she is willing to do the hard work to fix it, and OP is willing to forgive her, then he they can figure out if these things really were a problem in their marriage or maybe his wife is just an entitled person. Wouldn't be the first.
> 
> Again I am never going to critique a person's relationship on the words of a known liar.


I'm sorry about your mom and stepfather.

My personal experience (no more and less valid than your mom's) is that I engaged, and was able to save my marriage, which is the outcome I wanted. If I followed the advice in your first paragraph that would not have happened.

Both are useful examples. Both represent possible outcomes, to some extent.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

If I were your W I'd be very angry and hurt.

Why? Because you don't show that you care enough to even be angry at her.

She knows she was wrong - maybe she's looking for signs of life? Maybe she needs to hold a mirror under your nose to see of fog and make sure you're still breathing?

No - why confront - I'll just file.

(Paraphrasing you)

That's doormat, passive aggressive, meek behavior.

Where is your anger and pride? Why are you sitting there while she still goes out?

The whistling seems obvious to me... She f'd up and you aren't talking so she's glossing it over as much as you. That's all. Rug sweeping.

In your shoes I'd be pissed as hell and if I didn't leave I'd confront and find out who the guy was - no way would I accept her lame answers. If she couldn't be convinced with my teeth bearing, seething rage (doubtful) then I would tell her I'm going to contact a few of her coworkers wives that I suspect are the guys and blow up their marriages. F that - collateral damage if she's going to be so selfish it's on her.

Go to your dr and have your testosterone checked. In very serious - I'm not joking.

This is solvable if you are aggressive - and you get to call the shots on D or R on your own timeline.


Sorry to rant but this quiet male thing drives me mad.

Oh and BTW - just to be clear - in confronting I would have immediately countered the sex thing and tell her to strip down right then and there and let's do this - if she balked I'd have shoved it in her face. She can put up or shut up and I'd point out the hipocracy of her stance when she was really just pushing you aside at the end to be faithful to her guy(s) on the side.

Good luck but frankly if you just leave without pushing her to come clean I think that's on you and that's partly why you're in this mess.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but hey, TTH


----------



## See_Listen_Love

EleGirl said:


> Actually, men are as likely as women to make a marriage sexless or near sexless. I know that it goes against stereotypes because we are always told stupid things like men always want sex.


..eh...

That stereotype is based on ages of experience AND evolutionary biology. So you could call it the Norm...

(not wanting to start a discussion, just inform)


----------



## sokillme

TheTruthHurts said:


> If I were your W I'd be very angry and hurt.


If you were his wife you would be lusting for some guy in your office and letting some other guy kiss you, all the while writing letters online justifying yourself by saying how he doesn't fulfill you. And you think she should be upset?? This is the very definition of entitlement, really you should post on SI. Why would anyone care what she was feeling at this point? She obviously didn't care what he felt before. 

Frankly I hope she is upset, she deserves it!

I agree with you that he needs to stop being passive, but then again if it is making her upset then he should be passive as hell. 

Just wow:surprise:


----------



## hurt8288

Ok, we had a chat last night.

She point blank refused to give up OMs name. So that's that.

She says she never had a thing with this man. Just a little bit more than a friendship. That christmas party night she did let him touch her bum etc and she did the same, apparently that was it.

She says before it went any further she stopped it. Also agreed that the sexless thing and not affectionate thing was a horrible thing to say. Because it's not just clear as that. There were so many things happening. Also I did talk to her about stuff before, I said how to be more sexy, I like high heels etc. She only did that once! When confronted about that she said she felt stupid. It is not just my fault as she explains it in the post and I didnt totally ignore talking about it. Yes, partly my fault I should have been more proactive but then it is her job to keep me interested as well.

When we bought the house I have been doing most of the DIY work, designing, hiring contractors and also keeping the house clean. So quite a bit on my plate, if she proactively helped out rather than me having to ask her to do things I would have had more time to think about other stuff. Also that would be something that would turn me on. I have communicated this to her. But nothing much happened on that front.

The post she made on reddit is not accurate to the word. She obviously thought little of me at the time and lost quite a bit of respect just because she didnt get enough sex. 

I am fine with testosterone I think, I am going bald at 33 . Also I do powerlifting, I wouldnt be able to do that with low testosterone. 

She went away to one our friends B&B.. I am sure of that, because she and also our friend asked me to come but I refused as I need some space anyway.


----------



## hurt8288

Also while we were chatting, I said so if had just sex with someone with no emotional attachment would you forgive me? Her answer was absolutely not! That is crossing the line!

I think, she thinks getting emotionally attached like this someone is fine but physical contact that way is wrong. For me it's the other way around, I have even said that to her before. Getting emotionally attached is wrong but having sex is something forgivable. Because that's a bodys physical need, we are all animals and we are designed to mate with many as possible. Have that emotional bond with someone outside of the marriage is wrong.


----------



## italianjob

This is such a long thread, I'm not sure I got all the facts right:

1. In December 2015 your wife started an EA with a coworker
2. In February 2016 she posted her love story on reddit
3. In March 2016 she left the job where she met the coworker, and started a new one.
4. You found her out but she refuses to tell you APs name, and still goes out on her own frequently, not telling you where she goes.

So, in my view, either all of the above is a deal breaker for you or it is not. If it is not, you need more information.

At this moment, counseling is a waste of time and money.

At this point, as she refuses to give up some clearly pivotal point, talking to her is useless, you need to find information on your own.
My advice is to seek out info using every mean possible (VAR, looking at her phone and emails, talking to ex colleagues etc.) you need to find out:
- What happened with her CO since the reddit post: did/do they see each other since february?
- Why exactly her job change happened right after the reddit post?
- Where does she go when she goes out without you?
- Most of all, since you claim you already know with 99% approx, verify who the OM is.

When you have done all this:

- If you find out that the Christmas Party wasn't all that happened, expose OM to his wife.

At that point, if you have gathered enough info you might be able to have a real talk with your wife, and you'll know, in many cases, if she's lying or not.

Then you'll decide.

At this moment your wife has been lying and deceiving you for months and she's still witholding information. You can't believe her now. so remeber that "she said" is not "fact"

I don't think it's a good idea to tell your wife that sleeping with other men is ok with you, unless you're ready to open up your marriage and share your wife with whoever strikes her fancy from now on...


----------



## Lostinthought61

When you say "that's that" what do you mean?


----------



## hurt8288

Xenote said:


> When you say "that's that" what do you mean?


No point asking her anymore. I clearly explained why I need the name.

She says she doesnt want to be the one ruins that other relationship and their kids.

I said if you dont tell me it will ruin their lives anyway, this guy is a player you got caught. he will do that in the future and those kids will have a horrible house hold anyway.

Still didnt give it up.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Sorry Hurt, but I have to ask you, hearing those words can you move pass this? And what is she telling you to help you get pass this?


----------



## hurt8288

Xenote said:


> Sorry Hurt, but I have to ask you, hearing those words can you move pass this? And what is she telling you to help you get pass this?


I am finding it difficult. Yesterday for the first time she said we can go for a separation agreement. 

Also she said I got no evidence for a divorce on the grounds of adultery.

She is trying to gain the upper hand on this. These things make me think she is actually not the person I knew, a while back.

We also got married in front of family and friends 3 years ago. I asked why did you do that, if you were that unhappy. She said it was expected, we planned for it, thats why.

I just dont know what to say anymore.


----------



## jld

hurt8288 said:


> I am finding it difficult. Yesterday for the first time she said we can go for a separation agreement.
> 
> Also she said I got no evidence for a divorce on the grounds of adultery.
> 
> She is trying to gain the upper hand on this. These things make me think she is actually not the person I knew, a while back.
> 
> We also got married in front of family and friends 3 years ago. I asked why did you do that, if you were that unhappy. She said it was expected, we planned for it, thats why.
> 
> I just dont know what to say anymore.


Why do you need grounds? No fault divorce is available in every state.

You split the assets 50/50, no alimony. This should be easy.


----------



## italianjob

hurt8288 said:


> I am finding it difficult. Yesterday for the first time she said we can go for a separation agreement.
> 
> Also she said I got no evidence for a divorce on the grounds of adultery.
> 
> She is trying to gain the upper hand on this. These things make me think she is actually not the person I knew, a while back.
> 
> We also got married in front of family and friends 3 years ago. I asked why did you do that, if you were that unhappy. She said it was expected, we planned for it, thats why.
> 
> I just dont know what to say anymore.


Ok, it's quite clear to me she physically cheated. She's seeing the OM, verify it's the one you think, expose him and divorce her.


----------



## jld

hurt8288 said:


> No point asking her anymore. I clearly explained why I need the name.
> 
> She says she doesnt want to be the one ruins that other relationship and their kids.
> 
> I said if you dont tell me it will ruin their lives anyway, this guy is a player you got caught. he will do that in the future and those kids will have a horrible house hold anyway.
> 
> Still didnt give it up.


She may realize she was used, and feel shame. And does not want to relive the whole thing through exposure.

Do you know the story about Mary, the mother of Jesus, being pregnant before marriage? Joseph, the man she was supposed to marry, was planning to divorce her quietly. He knew the baby was not his.

There are probably lots of issues in your marriage. I really think just filing and calling it a day might be the least stressful option for both of you.


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## hurt8288

jld said:


> She may realize she was used, and feel shame. And does not want to relive the whole thing through exposure.
> 
> Do you know the story about Mary, the mother of Jesus, being pregnant before marriage? Joseph, the man she was supposed to marry, was planning to divorce her quietly. He knew the baby was not his.
> 
> There are probably lots of issues in your marriage. I really think just filing and calling it a day might be the least stressful option for both of you.


I dont think she think she was used. She said he is a nice guy. Don't ruin his and her life. And she will ask him to tell his wife (like he would).


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## jld

hurt8288 said:


> I dont think she think she was used. She said he is a nice guy. Don't ruin his and her life. And she will ask him to tell his wife (like he would).


And you told her "nice guys" don't pursue married women, right?


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## Wazza

hurt8288 said:


> I am finding it difficult. Yesterday for the first time she said we can go for a separation agreement.
> 
> Also she said I got no evidence for a divorce on the grounds of adultery.
> 
> She is trying to gain the upper hand on this. These things make me think she is actually not the person I knew, a while back.
> 
> We also got married in front of family and friends 3 years ago. I asked why did you do that, if you were that unhappy. She said it was expected, we planned for it, thats why.
> 
> I just dont know what to say anymore.


You have to decide what your line is. If my wife had a relationship like that with another man, I wouldn't take no for an answer. 

My wife tried to not hand over information, but her friends were less discrete. I found out a lot of information from that. It gave me the added advantage of sorting out the truth from the lies. Can you think of someone you might know, who might tell you?

At the same time, it does look like you at least have to consider the possibility of divorce. You might not get a say in it. You need legal advice so you know where you stand. But don't make any threats you aren't prepared to carry out.


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## hurt8288

Wazza said:


> You have to decide what your line is. If my wife had a relationship like that with another man, I wouldn't take no for an answer.
> 
> My wife tried to not hand over information, but her friends were less discrete. I found out a lot of information from that. It gave me the added advantage of sorting out the truth from the lies. Can you think of someone you might know, who might tell you?
> 
> At the same time, it does look like you at least have to consider the possibility of divorce. You might not get a say in it. You need legal advice so you know where you stand. But don't make any threats you aren't prepared to carry out.


Thing she is told this only one person. But I cannot get anything out of her. Others dont know much about it.. there are some work colleagues but I doubt they would tell me anything. Even if they knew anything


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## Wazza

hurt8288 said:


> Thing she is told this only one person. But I cannot get anything out of her. Others dont know much about it.. there are some work colleagues but I doubt they would tell me anything. Even if they knew anything


Can you identify the guy from emails or phone records? I'm guessing you thought of this already, but just asking.

You have to decide how you see all this, but one thing to consider. If you don't get answers now, it might eat at you. It would with me. Years later, that sort of stuff still eats. Very hard to come to terms with. 

I'm not saying you will react the same way I do, but I am suggesting you need to take a long term view.

If you are not going to make it, then walking away now is probably a simple matter of splitting the assets and parting (you should take legal advice on that). The longer you stay together, the more complicated it becomes. Kids, deeper financial commitments...

Sorry you are in this situation.


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## Wazza

Do you have access to her Facebook? The post you quoted says she was friends with him but unfriended him. This link might help you get a short list to suss out.

https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=481424155285458


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## hurt8288

Wazza said:


> Can you identify the guy from emails or phone records? I'm guessing you thought of this already, but just asking.
> 
> You have to decide how you see all this, but one thing to consider. If you don't get answers now, it might eat at you. It would with me. Years later, that sort of stuff still eats. Very hard to come to terms with.
> 
> I'm not saying you will react the same way I do, but I am suggesting you need to take a long term view.
> 
> If you are not going to make it, then walking away now is probably a simple matter of splitting the assets and parting (you should take legal advice on that). The longer you stay together, the more complicated it becomes. Kids, deeper financial commitments...
> 
> Sorry you are in this situation.


I reckon she must have deleted everything. Now there is no way for me to know anyway. I will just have to take her word for it. Even if its just what I found out, i cant come to terms with how some one can have feelings towards OM that way and come back to me and forget about what happened.

Although she says she finished in feb.. I certainly didnt feel that way. I was neglected until I found out about this.


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## hurt8288

Wazza said:


> Do you have access to her Facebook? The post you quoted says she was friends with him but unfriended him. This link might help you get a short list to suss out.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=481424155285458


I dont anymore but there was a message to the guy who fits the bill and he is no longer a friend. Also she liked some of his posts but she is not a friend anymore. 

He's got two kids... looks about 36-38 also he is a manager. she told me he was a manager and she had to talk to him quite a lot because of recruitment etc (she works in HR). She said he said he was attracted to her for over a year.


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## Marc878

Check your phone bill online. You'll know in about 15 minutes.


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## jld

Hurt, she does not respect you. If she did, she would be transparent about all of this. And she would feel empathy for you.

No doubt you did things wrong, too. But some things, like caring for her through her cancer, you did right.

I don't think all this snooping is healthy, either. Neither one of you is honest and open about all of this. 

I don't really understand what either of you is hanging onto.


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## italianjob

It's quite clear this was a PA also. 

If you ask me it's ongoing, too.

Have someone follow her (or do it yourself) in one of her nights out and you will know for sure...


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## Wazza

jld said:


> I don't think all this snooping is healthy, either. Neither one of you is honest and open about all of this.


Of course it's not healthy. Neither is infidelity. 

You haven't been there, you don't get what it does to your mind and how important it is to know the truth, for some of us anyway. It's the only way to get closure.


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## Wazza

italianjob said:


> It's quite clear this was a PA also.
> 
> If you ask me it's ongoing, too.
> 
> Have someone follow her (or do it yourself) in one of her nights out and you will know for sure...


Why would she make up a bullsh1t Reddit post? I assume it is basically true.


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## jld

Wazza said:


> Of course it's not healthy. Neither is infidelity.
> 
> You haven't been there, you don't get what it does to your mind and how important it is to know the truth, for some of us anyway. It's the only way to get closure.


I didn't say it was not understandable. I do understand the desire to know the truth. I just don't think the way either of them is going about this is very healthy.

Is all this chasing down the guy really worth it, Hurt? 

You know she is not being transparent and empathetic. Why would you want to stay with someone like that?


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## GusPolinski

Wazza said:


> Why would she make up a bullsh1t Reddit post? I assume it is basically true.


It's probably safe to assume the worst, especially given the loyalty that she's demonstrating to OM.


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## jld

Wazza said:


> Why would she make up a bullsh1t Reddit post?* I assume it is basically true*.


From her pov.


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## italianjob

Wazza said:


> Why would she make up a bullsh1t Reddit post? I assume it is basically true.


Post was in February, he found out in June. 

By her behavior, I think it's highly probable they took it to next stage in the last 4 months.


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## TheTruthHurts

If she told you she got married due to momentum and family expectations, which unfortunately isn't that uncommon, then I'm sorry but that's all I'd need to hear.

She probably feels affection, familiarity and a variety of good things for you... just not the love you want in a spouse.

She's gone off to find romantic love, but found a discounted married man instead. It's a shame for you both but it is what it is.

Time to move on. It's time for you to lead on the divorce. Protect yourself. Look out for yourself. If she realizes you're really leaving she may grow up and figure out what she found attractive in you but it's on her to then save the M, not you.


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## eric1

If she won't give the name up your only option is to assume that the affair is ongoing. 

Honestly it sounds like you're going to need to serve her papers. Sorry man, but there isn't another realistic option at this juncture.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Hey, Op?

I read your thread and see the specifics have people arguing multiple issues. I want to make sure I understand your timeline before I comment. You found a search on a guy kissing your wife's neck. This led you to a deeper search and finding out she had an EA with a coworker, who she is still protecting. She moved jobs in February, but the problems in your marriage persisted until the discovery in June, which is an elapsed period of 3-4 months.

So, there are two issues with 2 different men?
She has doubled down by unfriending and deleting all sources of proof?

Oh and sorry, slow dancing, grinding, holding hands, butt grabbing and reciprocation is physical, she just didn't have sex. Yes, I know, we all have different lines and for some, as long as there was no intercourse is cool. My issue is SHE NEVER TOLD YOU how she felt. She wrote a letter and you DISCOVERED it by yourself. 

Also, people lie on the internet just like they do in real life. There are many instances of minimizing and lying on TAM, even when people are just trying to help. Yes, even with anonymity of the internet. Part of the reason is "my spouse works on computers" or "what if my spouse find this post." I can show you posters all over TAM, some are veterans, who have hedged and admitted to altering things because they were embarrassed or fearful of ridicule. Personally, I wouldn't believe the letter is the whole truth at all. Aspects yes, but not all. To me, she was fishing for reasons and support to continue cheating and end the marriage.

Honestly, people are less judgemental if you walked up to the line than, if you cross it.


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## hurt8288

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Hey, Op?
> 
> I read your thread and see the specifics have people arguing multiple issues. I want to make sure I understand your timeline before I comment. You found a search on a guy kissing your wife's neck. This led you to a deeper search and finding out she had an EA with a coworker, who she is still protecting. She moved jobs in February, but the problems in your marriage persisted until the discovery in June, which is an elapsed period of 3-4 months.
> 
> So, there are two issues with 2 different men?
> She has doubled down by unfriending and deleting all sources of proof?
> 
> Oh and sorry, slow dancing, grinding, holding hands, butt grabbing and reciprocation is physical, she just didn't have sex. Yes, I know, we all have different lines and for some, as long as there was no intercourse is cool. My issue is SHE NEVER TOLD YOU how she felt. She wrote a letter and you DISCOVERED it by yourself.
> 
> Also, people lie on the internet just like they do in real life. There are many instances of minimizing and lying on TAM, even when people are just trying to help. Yes, even with anonymity of the internet. Part of the reason is "my spouse works on computers" or "what if my spouse find this post." I can show you posters all over TAM, some are veterans, who have hedged and admitted to altering things because they were embarrassed or fearful of ridicule. Personally, I wouldn't believe the letter is the whole truth at all. Aspects yes, but not all. To me, she was fishing for reasons and support to continue cheating and end the marriage.
> 
> Honestly, people are less judgemental if you walked up to the line than, if you cross it.


Thanks very much. I agree with everything here. She just played everything down like.. no physical connection blah blah.. Anyway what I have decided is to enjoy life.. i dont have to come to a conclusion straight away... what I will do is go out.. meet up with friends.. enjoy life .. without my SO .. and see how I feel about this... after that if i think I am a more happier person.. I will divorce her.. 

before all this happens if my SO want to divorce me .. it's up to her..  .. yay! finally, i feel free and a cloud has lifted off.. 

Ah yes .. I will try and get in touch with OMs wife to inform her..


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## phillybeffandswiss

Just make sure you do not cheat or debase yourself while trying to come to a decision. Revenge affairs and such leave more trouble than they are worth.


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## Wazza

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Also, people lie on the internet just like they do in real life. There are many instances of minimizing and lying on TAM, even when people are just trying to help. Yes, even with anonymity of the internet. Part of the reason is "my spouse works on computers" or "what if my spouse find this post." I can show you posters all over TAM, some are veterans, who have hedged and admitted to altering things because they were embarrassed or fearful of ridicule. Personally, I wouldn't believe the letter is the whole truth at all. Aspects yes, but not all. To me, she was fishing for reasons and support to continue cheating and end the marriage.


Agree people lie. But they lie logically. 

Right now, Hurt's world is collapsing under him and he doesn't know what to believe. And lots of people throw up possibilities, and you start to wonder if anything you can't totally disprove is true.

It helps if you can be reasonable. So the key facts I see are these.

1. They are 8 years in. I think 7-10 years is a danger zone. The shine wears off and people start questioning things.

2. They have clear problems. One of them is sex, one of the most powerful human motivators there is. Hurt, do not underestimate this. As the person with less desire, you cannot comprehend how this impacts your wife.

3. She started to cross the line with work colleague.

4. To me this is the kicker. She hasn't learned from the experience with the work colleague, in that she is pursuing other men now, instead of pulling back.

These are things we know. So, I can see why she would write her Reddit post if she were contemplating darker deeds, and I can see why she would write nothing for fear of being caught, but why would she write enough to get herself into trouble, yet ask a question whose answer would not interest her if she were already shagging the neck kisser?


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## phillybeffandswiss

Wazza said:


> Agree people lie. But they lie logically.


 This is your belief, it is neither a fact nor can you prove if it is common or rare. So, we will disagree.



> So, I can see why she would write her Reddit post if she were contemplating darker deeds, and I can see why she would write nothing for fear of being caught, but why would she write enough to get herself into trouble, yet ask a question whose answer would not interest her if she were already shagging the neck kisser?


The same reason they text, email, trickle truth, use apps, minimize and many other things that are MUCH easier to catch than a random post on reddit. The same reason we have a couple of active threads of cheaters, who are currently cheating and looking for advice. People do dumb and weird ILLOGICAL crap when they lie and are in a precarious position.


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## SunCMars

TheTruthHurts said:


> If I were your W I'd be very angry and hurt.
> 
> Why? Because you don't show that you care enough to even be angry at her.
> 
> She knows she was wrong - maybe she's looking for signs of life? Maybe she needs to hold a mirror under your nose to see of fog and make sure you're still breathing?
> 
> No - why confront - I'll just file.
> 
> (Paraphrasing you)
> 
> That's doormat, passive aggressive, meek behavior.
> 
> Where is your anger and pride? Why are you sitting there while she still goes out?
> 
> The whistling seems obvious to me... She f'd up and you aren't talking so she's glossing it over as much as you. That's all. Rug sweeping.
> 
> In your shoes I'd be pissed as hell and if I didn't leave I'd confront and find out who the guy was - no way would I accept her lame answers. If she couldn't be convinced with my teeth bearing, seething rage (doubtful) then I would tell her I'm going to contact a few of her coworkers wives that I suspect are the guys and blow up their marriages. F that - collateral damage if she's going to be so selfish it's on her.
> 
> Go to your dr and have your testosterone checked. In very serious - I'm not joking.
> 
> This is solvable if you are aggressive - and you get to call the shots on D or R on your own timeline.
> 
> 
> Sorry to rant but this quiet male thing drives me mad.
> 
> Oh and BTW - just to be clear - in confronting I would have immediately countered the sex thing and tell her to strip down right then and there and let's do this - if she balked I'd have shoved it in her face. She can put up or shut up and I'd point out the hipocracy of her stance when she was really just pushing you aside at the end to be faithful to her guy(s) on the side.
> 
> Good luck but frankly if you just leave without pushing her to come clean I think that's on you and that's partly why you're in this mess.
> 
> Sorry to sound so harsh, but hey, TTH


Wow!

Now *that* is projecting.......*acid laden bile!
*


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## TheTruthHurts

Ha ha projecting that's funny. So does that mean my W behaves emotionless and I am triggered? That's actually very funny. She's the last one to act emotionless. And my marriage is sound.

Nope - not projecting. But I also am not a BS so am not as inclined to have a knee jerk reaction here.

Instead I listen to what the poster says and try to provide insight into what the spouse might be thinking.

And here we have a guy who said he won't make a fuss... just leave. So I pointed out what that might feel like to someone with normal emotions.

Since then OP has talked to his W a few more times so he isnt just filing and walking away so this is perhaps moot.


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## sokillme

This is my last post on this because I don't think you really want to do anything you are just passive and she doesn't respect you because she knows you are all talk. 

You want to find out. I am telling you how, print out divorce papers, leave them there with a note on the counter saying from now on you can speak to my lawyer until I get the truth. As long as you protect him we will move to divorce, I will not waste time with separation. Then NO CONTACT none, nada, when she calls, all you should say "are you going to give me names?" if she says no hang up. When she texts you your response should be "name?" Get a lawyer server her at work. Tell her family that she had an affair and won't even tell you the guys name. 

Finally if she does tell you the name and you decide to try again I would make it contingent on a Polygraph. I really don't know why you are staying with her when the marriage is in the state it is in (no honesty, no communication). You are only hurting yourself. If you sweep this under the rug without giving her consequences she will do it again. 

Besides you doing this, there is really no point to this thread anymore, she is not going to tell you without consequences and you are to passive to do anything by angrily ask her about it. She knows she can just weather the storm. You are really going do anything but stand there with your thumb in your mouth. Just except OP you are never going to know. You are too passive to put pressure on her. This is also probably the reason she didn't worry about having an EA (if that's all it was), she know she can and you are just going to yell. Then you are going to "enjoy life".


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## TRy

hurt8288 said:


> what I have decided is to enjoy life.. i dont have to come to a conclusion straight away... what I will do is go out.. meet up with friends.. enjoy life .. without my SO .. and see how I feel about this... after that if i think I am a more happier person.. I will divorce her..


 This path often turns into long term rug sweeping, which is exactly what your wife is hoping that you will do. As time passes, she will start saying things like "why are you bringing this up now after all this time?" 

File for divorce. Put the divorce papers in front of her and tell her that if she answers all of your questions and shows remorse, that this will be the only thing that she can do to make you consider continuing with the marriage. If she says that she does not want to destroy the other man's marriage, tell her that what she just said proves that she ranks the other man arraignment over your marriage, and also proves that the truth of their affair is marriage destroying, thus you divorcing her is well deserved. If she does not tell you what you need to know in order to consider staying in the marriage, walk away and do not look back.


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## rich84

Your stance is so passive. Weak. She either sees it as confirmation of your being pathetic or disinterested or both. It's irrelevant, because she already is agreeing to separation, protecting her POSOM, and whistling around the house like a true cake-eater that largely got her way without much fuss. She is disrespecting you to your face, and you more or less take it. And on top of that, you seem pretty much OK with it and that divorce is a relief, but yet you're taking little to no action towards that effect. 

OP, where are your balls? Do both of you a favor and serve this woman with divorce papers. She's gone, you've checked out, it's over. Forget about exposure, there's honestly no point. And get your ass in IC to figure out why you find it difficult to be affectionate, intimate, and assertive. 

Not trying to be harsh with you. I personally have my own set of problems. But if left untouched, these things will likely resurface as problems in your next relationship. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wazza

How are you doing Hurt?


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## hurt8288

Wazza said:


> How are you doing Hurt?


I am ok. She came back last night. It was my birthday yesterday and she was not even here. I went out with one my friends for dinner.

We haven't talked much. I might have a chat today. Will update you guys later.

Thanks


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## turnera

Just hand her your divorce papers.


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## sokillme

hurt8288 said:


> I am ok. She came back last night. It was my birthday yesterday and she was not even here. I went out with one my friends for dinner.
> 
> We haven't talked much. I might have a chat today. Will update you guys later.
> 
> Thanks


At this point this is all on you. You are codependent on her and letting her abuse you. I guess you are too afraid to make changes. Get ready for a lifetime of this.


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## aine

I in no way condone her behaviour they are incompatible, but she’s not getting the affection or sex she needs, where is the sex brigade now? If she had been a man would the responses be different I wonder?


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## personofinterest

The way she actually thinks it's possible to turn these feelings into something positive and the fact that she says she used to be one of those naive people who judged affairs is fairly disgusting. I don't understand how anyone can think you can turn an emotional affair back into a friendship. And it is the ultimate disrespect to your spouse to try to do so. I don't know what to think… but at last she was doing some serious changing karma showing of remorse, and looking for another job, I don't think I would stick around at all.


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## personofinterest

aine said:


> I in no way condone her behaviour they are incompatible, but she’s not getting the affection or sex she needs, where is the sex brigade now? If she had been a man would the responses be different I wonder?


 Of course it would be different. And if a wife had come on here asking advice about her husband, one of the 1st questions asked would have been whether or not she was having regular sex with him. The 2nd question would be whether or not she had gotten fat.


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## farsidejunky

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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