# It does not get easier...



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

It has been so long since I have posted. This forum was such a life saver after I discovered my husbands long term affair. I have come back periodically to read threads, gather strength and sadly mourn that I didn’t heed so much advise that was given.

I am coming up on 3 years from d-day and I have to say that surviving infidelity never seems to get easier. The pain is still strong, the fear never abates and no matter what lies you tell yourself you will never be the same person again.

Many things have happened since I was last here. My WH and I separated for 6 months, COVID made it necessary for us to live together again. My daughter had a baby so now I am a grandma 😁 so that has been a huge distraction and a blessing. WH and I don’t fight much anymore. We have settled into a truce of sorts but I am forever longing to be alone. His presence always keeps me on edge. I can’t say I even love him anymore, his lies destroyed all feelings I had.

To anyone thinking reconciliation is easy, it is not. I think it is worse than finding out to begin with. You will simply become a robot existing but never really living.

I wish I had done just half the things that were suggested to me.

I am happy to be posting again. I hope maybe I can help someone now. Help them do better than I did.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks for posting. There are a couple of folks with active threads who could benefit greatly from your words.

Enjoy being Grandma.......


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TJW said:


> Thanks for posting. There are a couple of folks with active threads who could benefit greatly from your words.
> 
> Enjoy being Grandma.......


Thank you TJW...being a grandma is amazing but I have to say it has made me really see the err of my ways. Time is flying by and I am still just sitting motionless.
I hope I can help others...


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> It has been so long since I have posted. This forum was such a life saver after I discovered my husbands long term affair. I have come back periodically to read threads, gather strength and sadly mourn that I didn’t heed so much advise that was given.
> 
> I am coming up on 3 years from d-day and I have to say that surviving infidelity never seems to get easier. The pain is still strong, the fear never abates and no matter what lies you tell yourself you will never be the same person again.
> 
> ...


I would like to ask you some questions if you are amiable; 
While you were separated for the 6 months, did you gain a sense of clarity? Will you be stuck living with your H for the long term?

How committed to reconciling was he?

I am so sorry you are here again. Thankfully you have some joy in your life with the new baby and can pour your love into them. I know this must be so painful for you, but I think a lot of people here can learn from what you are going through, including me.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> I would like to ask you some questions if you are amiable;
> While you were separated for the 6 months, did you gain a sense of clarity? Will you be stuck living with your H for the long term?
> 
> How committed to reconciling was he?
> ...


The 6 months we were apart was the most peace I felt in years. He did come here many times. Always found an excuse to see me...the gutters needed cleaning etc. At the end of the day though I had the house to myself. I didn’t have to make small talk. I could feel my pain in peace.

He wants to stay together, says he can’t imagine a life without me. Vows to never hurt me again. He just won’t tell the truth about the affair. He prefers if I never mention it again. He can’t comprehend that I will never trust him again.

In a way my grandson has opened my eyes a bit more....

Thank you for your response and I am absolutely open to answer any questions.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> The 6 months we were apart was the most peace I felt in years. He did come here many times. Always found an excuse to see me...the gutters needed cleaning etc. At the end of the day though I had the house to myself. I didn’t have to make small talk. I could feel my pain in peace.
> 
> He wants to stay together, says he can’t imagine a life without me. Vows to never hurt me again. He just won’t tell the truth about the affair. He prefers if I never mention it again. He can’t comprehend that I will never trust him again.
> 
> ...


So he wasn’t truly participating in reconciliation, he just wanted to rug sweep it. I got the vow to never hurt me again too, right before he hurt me again. 

It makes me hopeful you felt so great when you moved out, I’m waiting for my house to be built and currently cohabitating. Putting a lot of my pain on hold until I have the space to process it. I’m not glad you are back here, but I am glad you can share your knowledge.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, I would like to respectfully suggest that what you're describing really isn't Reconciliation.

In order to truly R, both partners have to be all-in on doing the very hard work of both dealing with the affair and rebuilding an entirely new - and substantially improved - marriage from the wreckage of the one that was destroyed. One with honesty, excellent boundaries, safety and that meets the needs of both partners. It doesn't really sound like you have that. Instead, he just wants to move on and not deal with the consequences of his betrayal of you and your marriage.

If you and your husband _both_ want to attempt a true R, I suggest reading "Surviving an Affair" by Willard Harley, and doing the work it suggests. If one or both of you aren't all-in on that, then you can either choose to try to find a way to make peace with staying in the marriage as-is, or you can choose to divorce. But continuing to just try to "get over" it or pretend it never happened, as your husband seems to prefer, means you'll just remain in this painful limbo.

My now-ex-husband wasn't interested in really doing the work, either, preferring to rug-sweep his cheating. I lived in limbo too long. After my divorce, I was finally able to do the work on true healing that I hadn't been able to do while still married.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> So he wasn’t truly participating in reconciliation, he just wanted to rug sweep it. I got the vow to never hurt me again too, right before he hurt me again.
> 
> It makes me hopeful you felt so great when you moved out, I’m waiting for my house to be built and currently cohabitating. Putting a lot of my pain on hold until I have the space to process it. I’m not glad you are back here, but I am glad you can share your knowledge.


The rugsweeping is his preferred method for sure...he prefers to have a surface relationship with no true emotion. He was always more concerned with the blowback on him with zero concern for himself.
I wish you luck! I hope you get out and thrive!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> It has been so long since I have posted. This forum was such a life saver after I discovered my husbands long term affair. I have come back periodically to read threads, gather strength and sadly mourn that I didn’t heed so much advise that was given.
> 
> I am coming up on 3 years from d-day and I have to say that surviving infidelity never seems to get easier. The pain is still strong, the fear never abates and no matter what lies you tell yourself you will never be the same person again.
> 
> ...


My friend, sometimes you lose the game, particularly if the game is rigged. That's OK, there is always another game. It also doesn't make you a looser, it makes you like everyone else. 
You are suffering because you have decide to believe you have no agency in your life because you feel like if you do move on there is no chance for hope. But there IS HOPE in starting over. At least there is a chance. 

You will be alone if you stay with him most definitely but if you move on you might not.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Rowan said:


> OP, I would like to respectfully suggest that what you're describing really isn't Reconciliation.
> 
> In order to truly R, both partners have to be all-in on doing the very hard work of both dealing with the affair and rebuilding an entirely new - and substantially improved - marriage from the wreckage of the one that was destroyed. One with honesty, excellent boundaries, safety and that meets the needs of both partners. It doesn't really sound like you have that. Instead, he just wants to move on and not deal with the consequences of his betrayal of you and your marriage.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your response...my WH wants nothing to do with finding out the whys of what happened or addressing my issues. Right now the fighting has stopped and for me indifference has set in. I have zero interest in a romantic relationship with him. I am as surface as him now.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Have you resigned yourself to remaining with your husband? If so, why?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> My friend, sometimes you lose the game, particularly if the game is rigged. That's OK, there is always another game. It also doesn't make you a looser, it makes you like everyone else.
> You are suffering because you have decide to believe you have no agency in your life because you feel like if you do move on there is no chance for hope. But there IS HOPE in starting over. At least there is a chance.
> 
> You will be alone if you stay with him most definitely but if you move on you might not.


Maybe my age plays a roll...I’ve invested over 35 years of my life in this...I wonder who would want someone with so much baggage. Finances is huge at this stage...all I worked for gone.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> Have you resigned yourself to remaining with your husband? If so, why?


Maybe not for the long haul. I’m tired I suppose. Feeling the effects of trauma from the insane gaslighting. Fear keeps me planted.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

What are you afraid of?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> What are you afraid of?


Many things but now mostly not being able to pay my bills and be the grandmother I want to be. Available to help my daughter...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> The rugsweeping is his preferred method for sure...he prefers to have a surface relationship with no true emotion. He was always more concerned with the blowback on him with zero concern for himself.
> I wish you luck! I hope you get out and thrive!


You just described my ex to a T. Everything had to be phony and surface...nothing beyond sports and the weather could be discussed because anything else made him uncomfortable.

And don't get me started on the phony image management....the way he'd try to hold my hand in front of others while acting like a passive aggressive prick in private.

When I found out about him keeping an ex gf around our entire relationship let me tell you what I got. Lies, playing dumb, changing stories based on what he realized I knew, and a phony apology admitting that it "might have been inappropriate". He went off the rails when I brought it up a week after finding out because "he didn't have to listen to this". His discomfort was far more important then what I needed to heal, and I was accused of "wanting to be miserable". To this day he doesn't realize how much I actually know.

Sound familiar?

I left a couple of years ago and my only regret is not leaving sooner.

I hope you find a way to leave.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> You just described my ex to a T. Everything had to be phony and surface...nothing beyond sports and the weather could be discussed because anything else made him uncomfortable.
> 
> And don't get me started on the phony image management....the way he'd try to hold my hand in front of others while acting like a passive aggressive prick in private.
> 
> ...


The trickle truth was unreal. To this day I still don’t have the truth. Every time he lied he said it was because he was afraid of losing me. Well, he has lost me. Emotionally and mentally I am gone. Even when we have sex I can’t even remember it the next day. Like I disappear. Was odd the first few times it happened but now I am grateful it does.

I am glad you got out.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

For decades I was in what I thought was R. At least it was R for me. My husband (now ex) was extremely opposed to divorce but he also didn’t want to do the work for us to rebuild. He just wanted to rug-sweep the whole thing (I never learned the truth) and continue on as things were. He also swore he would never cheat again but one day he did. There was no third chance — I got out. It was the best decision I ever made.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> The trickle truth was unreal. To this day I still don’t have the truth. Every time he lied he said it was because he was afraid of losing me. Well, he has lost me. Emotionally and mentally I am gone. Even when we have sex I can’t even remember it the next day. Like I disappear. Was odd the first few times it happened but now I am grateful it does.
> 
> I am glad you got out.


Why would you still have sex with him?

Honestly after I detached from my ex if I'd stuck around and had sex with him once in a while when he took his ED pills he would've been happy as a pig in ****. That was exactly the kind of relationship he wanted with me.

I couldn't live like that.

Does your hb sense your detachment or does he not care? My counselor, who also did some MC sessions for us, told me ex doesn't sense disconnect because he doesn't really form intimate attachments. But towards the end even he knew I didn't want to be there and he hated it.

The irony is that at that point I was supposed to give a **** about his feelings when he had given none about mine.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> For decades I was in what I thought was R. At least it was R for me. My husband (now ex) was extremely opposed to divorce but he also didn’t want to do the work for us to rebuild. He just wanted to rug-sweep the whole thing (I never learned the truth) and continue on as things were. He also swore he would never cheat again but one day he did. There was no third chance — I got out. It was the best decision I ever made.


Amazing how they can lie like they do. It is beyond comprehension. I’m so glad you left!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> Why would you still have sex with him?
> 
> Honestly after I detached from my ex if I'd stuck around and had sex with him once in a while when he took his ED pills he would've been happy as a pig in ****. That was exactly the kind of relationship he wanted with me.
> 
> ...


Funny you talk about ED. He has it now. 😂 I’ve said somethings that have been pretty harsh and I know it has effected him. His entire manhood is wrapped up in sex.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I’m very rarely a supporter of R because it just doesn’t work for many. If I had known then what I know now, I never would have tried in the first place. The peace I got when I divorced was worth much more than what I lost.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I’m very rarely a supporter of R because it just doesn’t work for many. If I had known then what I know now, I never would have tried in the first place. The peace I got when I divorced was worth much more than what I lost.


I’m sorry I tried. I lost 3 more years. I’m not sure if I believe in love anymore. I know starting over at 54 will be quite a feat.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m sorry I tried. I lost 3 more years. I’m not sure if I believe in love anymore. I know starting over at 54 will be quite a feat.


I was in my mid-60’s before I finally got out after a very long marriage. I greatly regret that I didn’t get out much sooner.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I was in my mid-60’s before I finally got out after a very long marriage. I greatly regret that I didn’t get out much sooner.


What made you finally leave?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Completely get the fear. It is terrifying to think of starting over. 

In the end it was more that I didn't want my son to see the relationship I had with my cheating XH as normal. Didn't want him thinking it was ok for someone to cheat, lie and manipulate. And I knew in the end things always come out. When I left XH I figured it was better for our son to see 2 parents who can work together to parent him than to see how deeply I hated his father initially. Over the years, I became indifferent to him. There was that numb period you describe, and the separation itself was painful but also like you said, very peaceful. The first long relationship after divorce I was cheated on again, and it wasn't any less painful, but I don't regret leaving at all, because whether I end up a single, Golden Girl type, I will be happier than faking happy in a dead relationship with someone I actively loathed. 

If you do decide to continue with the R, make sure you both discuss what he will do to regain your trust, what both of your boundaries are, and what will happen if he breaks your boundaries again.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m sorry I tried. I lost 3 more years. I’m not sure if I believe in love anymore. I know starting over at 54 will be quite a feat.


From the way you spoke I thought you were older. 54 is nothing....you have a ton of good years left.

Do you work? I was 44 when I left and I see women on here moaning about starting over at 40. It was nothing for me but I work and make plenty to support myself and my kids (they aren't ex's kids).


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> Completely get the fear. It is terrifying to think of starting over.
> 
> In the end it was more that I didn't want my son to see the relationship I had with my cheating XH as normal. Didn't want him thinking it was ok for someone to cheat, lie and manipulate. And I knew in the end things always come out. When I left XH I figured it was better for our son to see 2 parents who can work together to parent him than to see how deeply I hated his father initially. Over the years, I became indifferent to him. There was that numb period you describe, and the separation itself was painful but also like you said, very peaceful. The first long relationship after divorce I was cheated on again, and it wasn't any less painful, but I don't regret leaving at all, because whether I end up a single, Golden Girl type, I will be happier than faking happy in a dead relationship with someone I actively loathed.
> 
> If you do decide to continue with the R, make sure you both discuss what he will do to regain your trust, what both of your boundaries are, and what will happen if he breaks your boundaries again.


I hear what you are saying. My daughter is an adult and I am afraid I am allowing her to think eating **** is normal. She loves us both and does want us together. My loathing is subsiding. I really don’t know what it is I feel...or don’t feel. It is odd after everything he has done that he thinks he is deserving of love or respect from me. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> From the way you spoke I thought you were older. 54 is nothing....you have a ton of good years left.
> 
> Do you work? I was 44 when I left and I see women on here moaning about starting over at 40. It was nothing for me but I work and make plenty to support myself and my kids (they aren't ex's kids).


I don’t work at the moment. My job has always been the secondary. His career always came first. 1950’s throw back...If I was 40 I would be gone.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Maybe my age plays a roll...I’ve invested over 35 years of my life in this...I wonder who would want someone with so much baggage. Finances is huge at this stage...all I worked for gone.


What happens if you meet someone?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I don’t work at the moment. My job has always been the secondary. His career always came first. 1950’s throw back...If I was 40 I would be gone.


I honestly cant understand why he is still there. You say you were really happy when he left for 6 months, he still hasnt told you the truth(there is NO way I would have anything to do with a man who was still hiding this) and you are still having sex with him. Just tell him to go and end this very unhappy situation. Many start again in their 40's, 50's and 60's. I remarried at age 50, (yes even with loads of baggage), and have a really good husband and marriage now 15 years later. 
No wonder you are so unhappy, the one who is causing it is still there, you can't heal and move on till the marriage has ended and he is gone. Oh and dont keep letting him come back to the house whenever he wants.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> What made you finally leave?


After swearing he would never cheat again, he did. Looking back, I think he was probably a serial cheater — going back to when we were very young — and I just didn’t pick up on the red flags. I had warned him when I agreed to reconcile than I wouldn’t be so understanding again. And I wasn’t. It took a very long time for me to be totally done but I finally reached that point and haven’t regretted it for a single moment. I do very much regret reconciling but definitely not divorcing.

Secrecy and lies. The bitterness of broken promises. Some of us never move beyond that once we’re free but others do. It’ll obviously be up to you what your life looks like if you get out. But never think it can’t be excellent because it absolutely can be.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> What happens if you meet someone?


I don’t know. He has said he thinks I should have an affair. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My child was around 40 when I divorced. No matter the age, I discovered that children almost always want their parents together. I was sort of surprised at the opposition from my family and friends but I did it anyway.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I don’t know. He has said he thinks I should have an affair. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Yeah, my husband gave me that opportunity as well. I think it’s so they can throw it up later when you argue.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I honestly cant understand why he is still there. You say you were really happy when he left for 6 months, he still hasnt told you the truth(there is NO way I would have anything to do with a man who was still hiding this) and you are still having sex with him. Just tell him to go and end this very unhappy situation. Many start again in their 40's, 50's and 60's. I remarried at age 50, (yes even with loads of baggage), and have a really good husband and marriage now 15 years later.
> No wonder you are so unhappy, the one who is causing it is still there, you can't heal and move on till the marriage has ended and he is gone. Oh and dont keep letting him come back to the house whenever he wants.


Money is the number one factor. I can’t even imagine trusting anyone else. My entire world view has been changed.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> After swearing he would never cheat again, he did. Looking back, I think he was probably a serial cheater — going back to when we were very young — and I just didn’t pick up on the red flags. I had warned him when I agreed to reconcile than I wouldn’t be so understanding again. And I wasn’t. It took a very long time for me to be totally done but I finally reached that point and haven’t regretted it for a single moment. I do very much regret reconciling but definitely not divorcing.
> 
> Secrecy and lies. The bitterness of broken promises. Some of us never move beyond that once we’re free but others do. It’ll obviously be up to you what your life looks like if you get out. But never think it can’t be excellent because it absolutely can be.


I want to believe this..not sure why I can’t get there...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> He wants to stay together, says he can’t imagine a life without me. Vows to never hurt me again. He just won’t tell the truth about the affair. He prefers if I never mention it again. He can’t comprehend that I will never trust him again.


YOUR life, YOUR rules. If you require the truth, which you have every right to and I think probably should, and he dismisses that, then that plus the affair = his treatment of your marriage. Nothing has changed. 

How could it be fair for you to have to deal with your pain, but he doesn't have to deal with his own? He cannot recover from his own demons if he makes the choice not to face them. And one of those demons is the effect his affair had on you. He doesn't want to own that. But it's his, he caused it, not you.

I'm not up to date on the details of the thread, so I am not going to make an assumption that what you had is worth saving or not. That's for you to decide. Not him, not the TAM jury. Just you. But if you think it's possible to move forward, than lay down the rules, and set a deadline for him presenting the timeline. Everything. Make it clear that discovering errors in that timeline down the road is an automatic out for you. He has one chance. Can you get there from here? Do you want to?

The ball is in your court, not his. You make the rules, not him. And you enforce the rules, nobody else.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> Yeah, my husband gave me that opportunity as well. I think it’s so they can throw it up later when you argue.


Most likely. His views on sex are way different than mine.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> YOUR life, YOUR rules. If you require the truth, which you have every right to and I think probably should, and he dismisses that, then that plus the affair = his treatment of your marriage. Nothing has changed.
> 
> How could it be fair for you to have to deal with your pain, but he doesn't have to deal with his own? He cannot recover from his own demons if he makes the choice not to face them. And one of those demons is the effect his affair had on you. He doesn't want to own that. But it's his, he caused it, not you.
> 
> ...


Nothing he says I will believe now. NOT A WORD. So that part is moot. He was my first and I his...maybe that is what makes it so hard for me. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I don’t know. He has said he thinks I should have an affair. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Why don't you do better and leave.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You have a marriage of longevity. Because of that, you are entitled to half of the earnings acquired during the marriage. That may be nothing; then again, it might be a decent amount on which to start a new life. Have you seriously considered that living alone would be preferable to living with your husband? Because from where I'm sitting, it sounds like he's invested in the image, but not the emotional connection, of marriage with you.

You can allow it to continue if that's what you feel is in your best interests. Me? I'd be gone in a New York minute. And I sure as hell wouldn't look back in regret. JMO.

ETA: A life of resignation is not an authentic or fulfilling life. Something to think about ...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Money is the number one factor. I can’t even imagine trusting anyone else. My entire world view has been changed.


Well what is more important, you being happy and at peace with less money or you being unhappy and stressed and more money?


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## shortbus (Jul 25, 2017)

Congrats on being a grandma, hope everyone is happy and healthy.
Your thread is an example of why I would never recommend reconciliation.
I wish you the best going forward.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Why don't you do better and leave.


It’s a question I ask myself everyday. Fear mostly. Irrational I am sure...


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

It doesn't get easier if you stay in the situation.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> You have a marriage of longevity. Because of that, you are entitled to half of the earnings acquired during the marriage. That may be nothing; then again, it might be a decent amount on which to start a new life. Have you seriously considered that living alone would be preferable to living with your husband? Because from where I'm sitting, it sounds like he's invested in the image, but not the emotional connection, of marriage with you.
> 
> You can allow it to continue if that's what you feel is in your best interests. Me? I'd be gone in a New York minute. And I sure as hell wouldn't look back in regret. JMO.
> 
> ETA: A life of resignation is not an authentic or fulfilling life. Something to think about ...


I appreciate your insight. He wants a connection just if I forget what he did. He feels details don’t matter.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Nothing he says I will believe now. NOT A WORD. So that part is moot. He was my first and I his...maybe that is what makes it so hard for me. 🤷🏼‍♀️


You don't even know that you were his first. For 42 years my wife claimed I was her first. Turns out I was the 4th, 5th or 6th. Not sure. Extraordinarily-differing and undisclosed notions of privacy allowed her to live a double-life that has haunted our marriage to this day. If someone claims to be open, claims they have no issues with privacy, but are actually otherwise, they create a massive and unfair imbalance in a relationship. Your husband is acting that out right now. Getting through that may be impossible, may not be worth the effort.

Whatever you believe you know, it's possible it doesn't come close to the truth. It's possible, with a lot of therapy, and only if he desires with every piece of his heart, body and soul, to change, there could be something worth working toward. 

Maybe you should print out my messages and let him read them. See how he reacts.

Are you in therapy yet? I say yet because you're not going to come out of this in one piece without it. Especially if you don't have several good friends you can talk with.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> Fear mostly. Irrational I am sure...


Again, WHAT are you really afraid of? Think about the question before you respond. All I will say is this: If your fear is keeping you stuck, it might help if you spoke to a good counselor about what is holding you back. It would be a tragedy if you looked back on your life and regretted staying with this man based on unfounded fears. Seriously.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> he thinks I should have an affair.


Cheater's Handbook, Chapter 8. It would make him feel better if you did. Then, you would be "even".....



Prodigal said:


> WHAT are you really afraid of?


What are the risks, and what are the potential benefits ?
In what ways can you mitigate the risks ?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> He wants a connection just if I forget what he did. He feels details don’t matter.


That's fine for him. It works as far as he's concerned. So how is that working for you?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Well what is more important, you being happy and at peace with less money or you being unhappy and stressed and more money?





Diana7 said:


> Well what is more important, you being happy and at peace with less money or you being unhappy and stressed and more money?


At this moment sadly I feel financial stability is paramount. I’m angry after all these years I won’t be able to rock my grandkids on my porch because I will have to sell my house.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> That's fine for him. It works as far as he's concerned. So how is that working for you?


Clearly it is not.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TJW said:


> Cheater's Handbook, Chapter 8. It would make him feel better if you did. Then, you would be "even".....


That and he said if I liked it maybe we could consider swinging of sorts. 😳


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> You don't even know that you were his first. For 42 years my wife claimed I was her first. Turns out I was the 4th, 5th or 6th. Not sure. Extraordinarily-differing and undisclosed notions of privacy allowed her to live a double-life that has haunted our marriage to this day. If someone claims to be open, claims they have no issues with privacy, but are actually otherwise, they create a massive and unfair imbalance in a relationship. Your husband is acting that out right now. Getting through that may be impossible, may not be worth the effort.
> 
> Whatever you believe you know, it's possible it doesn't come close to the truth. It's possible, with a lot of therapy, and only if he desires with every piece of his heart, body and soul, to change, there could be something worth working toward.
> 
> ...


We tried therapy and he lied to the therapist. I told him he needed individual counseling and he says he will look into it. Most of all I want him to understand the brevity of my emotions.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

shortbus said:


> Congrats on being a grandma, hope everyone is happy and healthy.
> Your thread is an example of why I would never recommend reconciliation.
> I wish you the best going forward.


Thank you so much!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I can certainly understand your hesitancy to leave, given the duration of your marriage. Maybe you are what I call a "traditional" woman who sees her husband as the head of the family; the one who "wears the pants" so to speak. I'm okay with that.

But here's the thing: You are ALLOWING your husband to treat you with blatant disrespect. And you don't like it. While I can understand that you want to contribute to this forum, what you are basically contributing is, don't-let-this-happen-to-you. Well, that is a fair warning to people who decide to stay regardless of how terrible they feel. But staying in any situation that makes you angry, resentful, and depressed is nothing more than an exercise in self-hate.

I've been on this forum for 10 years. Just about everyone here knows my story. The reason keep posting: I am living proof that anyone can walk away from a bad marriage that is damaging them physically and/or emotionally. You have to love yourself enough to leave this mess. You also need to get angry enough to realize you deserve a life where you can be true to yourself.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf,
I had a hard time reading your threads, many of the elements were similar to my marital life. We presented like the perfect couple, everyone was shocked when the truth came out. Heck, his family probably slandered me to everyone after I left him, he was the "golden boy". 

My ex refused my pleas to get help until I discovered an EA about 4.5 yrs in (2011). I was so hurt, but I loved him and wanted our marriage to work, we did marriage counseling, but it lapsed into the same old...He had his 2nd EA in 2018. He gaslit me when I voiced my concerns early on, and I second-guessed myself. In 2019, **** hit the fan when I discovered that EA became a PA. 

Like you, I was afraid of life without him, we spent almost our entire adult lives together. He was content to continue on, made no moves to divorce. It was almost like he was curious to see how much I could take before I left him. It took a few epiphanies for me to finally act:
1. hearing him tell the marriage counselor in front of me that he wasn't going to stop seeing her
2. realizing I didn't even_ like_ him after he asked why I loved him

That's when I "released the kraken" and quietly made my moves to leave him. He had no idea until he was served, I moved out of town immediately after we signed an agreement and moved on with my life. Btw, I was extremely vulnerable, still on medical leave from my job after major surgery (no income). My sense of self-worth was wrecked, I didn't believe anyone else would want me, then I started dating and it was a complete shock to realize I didn't have to be alone unless I chose that.

You know you don't love him anymore, what's holding you back now? I'm happy you have a grandbaby to love, but you can still have a family life, without living this sterile, pretend life. I can't imagine how stressed you must be! I didn't realize how badly off I was until I slept like a baby the first night in my new place.

Will you be ok the next time he cheats?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> I can certainly understand your hesitancy to leave, given the duration of your marriage. Maybe you are what I call a "traditional" woman who sees her husband as the head of the family; the one who "wears the pants" so to speak. I'm okay with that.
> 
> But here's the thing: You are ALLOWING your husband to treat you with blatant disrespect. And you don't like it. While I can understand that you want to contribute to this forum, what you are basically contributing is, don't-let-this-happen-to-you. Well, that is a fair warning to people who decide to stay regardless of how terrible they feel. But staying in any situation that makes you angry, resentful, and depressed is nothing more than an exercise in self-hate.
> 
> I've been on this forum for 10 years. Just about everyone here knows my story. The reason keep posting: I am living proof that anyone can walk away from a bad marriage that is damaging them physically and/or emotionally. You have to love yourself enough to leave this mess. You also need to get angry enough to realize you deserve a life where you can be true to yourself.


I don’t know if I am traditional...it’s just how our life worked. I was a foster child who aged out of the system at 18. My childhood was not ideal. My foster mother unkind. Gave me all the necessities. A roof, food etc. She never offered more. Was very hard on me and taught me what I needed to live on my own. I learned to live with the minimum from people. I have a bit of an attachment disorder where I don’t bond with many people. I did with my husband clearly. I feel he took advantage of my frailty if you will. As far as I know he was faithful for 28 years of our marriage. It was not a perfect marriage and at times not good but I never thought he would have a 2 year affair. I never expected me to plead with him to help me while I was drowning and have him say swim harder. Its like he lit the house on fire and then pushed me out of the way to get out.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I appreciate your insight. He wants a connection just if I forget what he did. He feels details don’t matter.


He wants you to provide his comforts and the security of the familiar while he indulges his selfish desires.


Torninhalf said:


> That and he said if I liked it maybe we could consider swinging of sorts. 😳


OMG Major flashback. "Coincidentally", on 2 different occasions, my ex brought up swinging and acted horrified the men wanted me when I expressed my disgust at the idea. Interestingly, that was before his EA's and PA.

Huge moral conflict, flush this turd!


Torninhalf said:


> We tried therapy and he lied to the therapist. I told him he needed individual counseling and he says he will look into it. Most of all I want him to understand the brevity of my emotions.


I found notes that proved he lied to our therapist too, about what I was lacking, that he needed to go elsewhere. He didn't have the balls to be honest to anyone in person. Looks like he cares more about his respectable reputation as a long-married man than you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Torninhalf,
> I had a hard time reading your threads, many of the elements were similar to my marital life. We presented like the perfect couple, everyone was shocked when the truth came out. Heck, his family probably slandered me to everyone after I left him, he was the "golden boy".
> 
> My ex refused my pleas to get help until I discovered an EA about 4.5 yrs in (2011). I was so hurt, but I loved him and wanted our marriage to work, we did marriage counseling, but it lapsed into the same old...He had his 2nd EA in 2018. He gaslit me when I voiced my concerns early on, and I second-guessed myself. In 2019, **** hit the fan when I discovered that EA became a PA.
> ...


Wow...you made me cry. I could feel my story in yours. 😔 
I still want to believe he can love me the way I need...pathetic I know. I do believe he loves me as odd as that sounds. I know if he ever cheats again he will lose what we are living and both his adult children as they know all that has happened.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I understand. More than you know. My mother made sure I was clean, clothed and fed (although it was mostly crap from a can). No love. No encouragement. No positive reinforcement. The ONLY time either of my parents - my mean, crazy mother or skirt-chasing father - gave me any attention was when I was "bad." That could be anything at anytime. They demanded my subservience and respect. They never earned it. And I know all too well the issue of bonding. That's why I married two alcoholics. Not much to bond with there.

But the thing is, your husband is a lot like what you are accustomed to. Understandable. But what we are often used to is what damages us even more. It also serves as a way to reinforce in us that we aren't inherently lovable or worthy of love.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I want to believe this..not sure why I can’t get there...


I know.

Ending a long marriage can be a very scary process. Anger helps. I finally reached the point that I couldn’t stay a minute longer and I didn’t care about anything but getting out. I absolutely don’t have the lavish life I once did but the trade-off is peace and control of my life. That’s worth everything I had to give up.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> He wants you to provide his comforts and the security of the familiar while he indulges his selfish desires.
> 
> OMG Major flashback. "Coincidentally", on 2 different occasions, my ex brought up swinging and acted horrified the men wanted me when I expressed my disgust at the idea. Interestingly, that was before his EA's and PA.
> 
> ...


My husband isn’t horrified by the thought of other men wanting me. He enjoys the idea actually. I was so fragile I wanted him to be horrified. He is horrified at the thought that I will fall in love with someone else.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> I understand. More than you know. My mother made sure I was clean, clothed and fed (although it was mostly crap from a can). No love. No encouragement. No positive reinforcement. The ONLY time either of my parents - my mean, crazy mother or skirt-chasing father - gave me any attention was when I was "bad." That could be anything at anytime. They demanded my subservience and respect. They never earned it. And I know all too well the issue of bonding. That's why I married two alcoholics. Not much to bond with there.
> 
> But the thing is, your husband is a lot like what you are accustomed to. Understandable. But what we are often used to is what damages us even more. It also serves as a way to reinforce in us that we aren't inherently lovable or worthy of love.


I am so sorry you lived that. I often wonder what my life would have been had I not been always willing to accept less than...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I know.
> 
> Ending a long marriage can be a very scary process. Anger helps. I finally reached the point that I couldn’t stay a minute longer and I didn’t care about anything but getting out. I absolutely don’t have the lavish life I once did but the trade-off is peace and control of my life. That’s worth everything I had to give up.


Ironically the anger faze has ended...well mostly subsided. I don’t rage or cry anymore. Maybe I just simmer now...😂


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Actually, I'm sad that I came from such a rotten home, but I'm not sorry. And I mean that with complete sincerity. It helped me to learn to be independent, to finally get the clarity I needed to realize I CAN make it on my own.

Why are you willing to accept a half-rate life? You can only blame your upbringing so much To continue to do so will keep you in victim mode. Maybe it's time to break out and realize you don't need to be a victim any longer. Nobody needs to lead a second rate life ... unless they decide to do so.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> At this moment sadly I feel financial stability is paramount. I’m angry after all these years I won’t be able to rock my grandkids on my porch because I will have to sell my house.


I can relate. We built our dream home with our grandchildren in mind. I had to sell it when I got divorced and it totally ripped my heart out because my grandchildren really loved that house.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> Actually, I'm sad that I came from such a rotten home, but I'm not sorry. And I mean that with complete sincerity. It helped me to learn to be independent, to finally get the clarity I needed to realize I CAN make it on my own.
> 
> Why are you willing to accept a half-rate life? You can only blame your upbringing so much To continue to do so will keep you in victim mode. Maybe it's time to break out and realize you don't need to be a victim any longer. Nobody needs to lead a second rate life ... unless they decide to do so.


I don’t know if I see myself as a victim as much as I have finally realized why I have made the decisions I have. I met my husband when I was 17 and he was 23. I didn’t have experience or any clue to what my childhood would do to my relationships in life. It’s taken such a life altering event to make me see our entire relationship in a different light. You are correct...I suppose I am my own jail guard.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I can relate. We built our dream home with our grandchildren in mind. I had to sell it when I got divorced and it totally ripped my heart out because my grandchildren really loved that house.


I’m sorry...I have lived my life sacrificing for others...kids and now grandkids are in the mix...part of me feels selfish if I blow it all up. I know HE really blew it up but after taking him back I feel somehow it will be my fault.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Wow...you made me cry. I could feel my story in yours. 😔
> I still want to believe he can love me the way I need...pathetic I know. I do believe he loves me as odd as that sounds. I know if he ever cheats again he will lose what we are living and both his adult children as they know all that has happened.


I cried too when I read yours, I don't wish this life on my worst enemy.


Torninhalf said:


> My husband isn’t horrified by the thought of other men wanting me. He enjoys the idea actually. I was so fragile I wanted him to be horrified. He is horrified at the thought that I will fall in love with someone else.


This is so dehumanizing. He sounds like he likes people to think well of him and be envious of what he has. He's looking at you like a thing, not a person. My husband was very much about appearances, when I gained weight during my illness and was no longer the shiny thing, he discarded me for the proverbial younger model. 

How can someone love you if they do what they know will hurt you willfully, it's not like he fell into her cavernous vagina. Then to add insult to injury, pressure you to drop your morals to sink to their level. This man does not love you, it doesn't even sound like he loves himself. 


Prodigal said:


> Actually, I'm sad that I came from such a rotten home, but I'm not sorry. And I mean that with complete sincerity. It helped me to learn to be independent, to finally get the clarity I needed to realize I CAN make it on my own.
> 
> Why are you willing to accept a half-rate life? You can only blame your upbringing so much To continue to do so will keep you in victim mode. Maybe it's time to break out and realize you don't need to be a victim any longer. Nobody needs to lead a second rate life ... unless they decide to do so.


This^^^

My family life was not super happy either, but I was loved. My childhood was a cycle of emotional blackmail, it left me feeling love was pain, sacrifice, and conditional. Maybe that's why I accepted the crumbs he tossed me. Heck, right now I am dealing with a very close family member (one of my few remaining) who went radio silent because I am not living my life to his standards. 

The old me would be tempted to "make peace", but you know what? **** that! If you keep reacting, you will live with the consequences anyway, so you may as well take control of which ones you're going to live with. The only thing to do is make peace with your past, learn from your mistakes and move on. How you choose to move on is up to you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> I cried too when I read yours, I don't wish this life on my worst enemy.
> 
> This is so dehumanizing. He sounds like he likes people to think well of him and be envious of what he has. He's looking at you like a thing, not a person. My husband was very much about appearances, when I gained weight during my illness and was no longer the shiny thing, he discarded me for the proverbial younger model.
> 
> ...


I told him that I felt like he thought he owned me. He could do or not do what he wanted and I would still love him. I don’t understand the sexual side. I wanna kill the ***** he had an affair with and on a couple of occasions he acted turned on by the thought of me with someone else. He can separate the sexual act from love...I really can’t. Not that I have not thought about a fling but I would be using someone else and if they didn’t care it wouldn’t be someone I would want to be with if that makes sense.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m sorry...I have lived my life sacrificing for others...kids and now grandkids are in the mix...part of me feels selfish if I blow it all up. I know HE really blew it up but after taking him back I feel somehow it will be my fault.


I felt the same way. I had a wonderful career that I cut back on considerably after our child was born so that I could do everything for everyone for decades. My husband traveled a lot and even when he was home he was busily climbing the corporate ladder so I very often felt like a single parent. I wasn’t even sure I could make myself get a divorce when I knew everyone would be opposed (and they all were). One family member reminded me that I had stayed the first time my husband cheated so why couldn’t I stay the second time. My response was that I finally deserved happiness.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I felt the same way. I had a wonderful career that I cut back on considerably after our child was born so that I could do everything for everyone for decades. My husband traveled a lot and even when he was home he was busily climbing the corporate ladder so I very often felt like a single parent. I wasn’t even sure I could make myself get a divorce when I knew everyone would be opposed (and they all were). One family member reminded me that I had stayed the first time my husband cheated so why couldn’t I stay the second time. My response was that I finally deserved happiness.


I think it has been so long since I felt real happiness I forgot what it is.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I think it has been so long since I felt real happiness I forgot what it is.


I had to convince myself that I deserved it but once I did I never looked back. Walking away came with a high price but it was worth it.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

It would seem that the husband of the OP is either a bit sociopathic or monumentally insecure. To bar yourself from really feeling something so that you do not get hurt, look stupid, or feel inadequate is not the way to live. Also, his not moving on shows to myself that this is more about his not wanting to be alone. He would rather have safe, predictable but superficial rather than alone and having to navigate the new proverbial river.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I had to convince myself that I deserved it but once I did I never looked back. Walking away came with a high price but it was worth it.


I would like to look myself in the mirror again. In they eye without quickly glancing away. I’m embarrassed by the fear and can’t even hide it from myself.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DesertRat1978 said:


> It would seem that the husband of the OP is either a bit sociopathic or monumentally insecure. To bar yourself from really feeling something so that you do not get hurt, look stupid, or feel inadequate is not the way to live. Also, his not moving on shows to myself that this is more about his not wanting to be alone. He would rather have safe, predictable but superficial rather than alone and having to navigate the new proverbial river.


I agree...monumentally insecure. He told his AP complete fabrications about us and our marriage. He lied to her about why we moved to the state we are in. We moved because he lost his job but told her he gave up his career so I could be closer to my father. He painted himself as this amazing guy and I was so ungrateful for the gesture. Instead I was forced to sell my home and move from my life for a mistake he made.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I agree...monumentally insecure. He told his AP complete fabrications about us and our marriage. He lied to her about why we moved to the state we are in. We moved because he lost his job but told her he gave up his career so I could be closer to my father. He painted himself as this amazing guy and I was so ungrateful for the gesture. Instead I was forced to sell my home and move from my life for a mistake he made.


I assume AP means affair partner. It seems as if he wanted the high of a new relationship where the other partner did not know his flaws and misgivings. He could be brand new in a sense. They would not see him as average, everyday, mundane, etc. To tell your affair partner that you are flawed/broken and the reason for the marriage being not-so-great is not exactly a selling point. Not trying to condone his actions but rather give insight.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DesertRat1978 said:


> I assume AP means affair partner. It seems as if he wanted the high of a new relationship where the other partner did not know his flaws and misgivings. He could be brand new in a sense. They would not see him as average, everyday, mundane, etc. To tell your affair partner that you are flawed/broken and the reason for the marriage being not-so-great is not exactly a selling point. Not trying to condone his actions but rather give insight.


Thank you. I suppose that is why he did it. Knight in shining armor. It was such a betrayal to me because I left my entire life to start over for a mistake he made. I left my job, my friends, everything to start over from the bottom again. He even lied to me what happened with his job. I cant go into details but he was forced to resign after 18 years.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I told him that I felt like he thought he owned me. He could do or not do what he wanted and I would still love him. I don’t understand the sexual side. I wanna kill the *** he had an affair with and on a couple of occasions he acted turned on by the thought of me with someone else. He can separate the sexual act from love...I really can’t. Not that I have not thought about a fling but I would be using someone else and if they didn’t care it wouldn’t be someone I would want to be with if that makes sense.


Girl, you're like my twin. The ****er had the nerve to tell the therapist he knew I could never cheat on him, he was so sure of me. The side chick is inconsequential, if it wasn't her, it would be someone else. Focus your rage on him, he's the one who made vows to you. 

My drive came back with a vengeance after years of neglect after I made my decision and filed. I tried the whole FWB thing, and though it isn't for me, I learned to feel comfortable in my own skin as I am. You might surprise yourself, never say never. Just be honest and considerate of someone else's feelings.


Openminded said:


> I felt the same way. I had a wonderful career that I cut back on considerably after our child was born so that I could do everything for everyone for decades. My husband traveled a lot and even when he was home he was busily climbing the corporate ladder so I very often felt like a single parent. I wasn’t even sure I could make myself get a divorce when I knew everyone would be opposed (and they all were). One family member reminded me that I had stayed the first time my husband cheated so why couldn’t I stay the second time. My response was that I finally deserved happiness.


Gotta love good old family pressure. I can't understand why people can't just be happy for you and mind their own freaking business unless you specifically ask their advice.


Torninhalf said:


> I would like to look myself in the mirror again. In they eye without quickly glancing away. I’m embarrassed by the fear and can’t even hide it from myself.


You have nothing to be ashamed of, fear is human. It's a constant struggle, but hiding from the monster under the bed won't prevent it from grabbing you. Remember how you felt when he left for 6 months, how peaceful and content you were. 

Now write down what needs to happen, break it up into little bits, and cheerlead yourself one by one until your end goal of being on your own and living a peaceful life happens. It's a really simple process, but it's not remotely easy. Redirect your caretaking instincts to yourself for a while. You deserve that. 



Torninhalf said:


> I agree...monumentally insecure. He told his AP complete fabrications about us and our marriage. He lied to her about why we moved to the state we are in. We moved because he lost his job but told her he gave up his career so I could be closer to my father. He painted himself as this amazing guy and I was so ungrateful for the gesture. Instead I was forced to sell my home and move from my life for a mistake he made.


My God, there really is a mold they pop out of. I asked my ex what BS he told his 19 y/o AP to somehow become a prize in her eyes. The man hates who he is fundamentally, exit and allow him to carry-on, or he'll drag you down to with him.


Torninhalf said:


> I think it has been so long since I felt real happiness I forgot what it is.


Unfortunately, I know how you feel only too well. Ultimately, only you can make yourself happy. I started doing small things, things I always liked to do, or anything that made me feel good. Aromatherapy, pedicures, working out, baking and sharing, buying BOB (battery operated bf), dressing nicer, etc. Start small, and you might be surprised where it may lead.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you. I suppose that is why he did it. Knight in shining armor. It was such a betrayal to me because I left my entire life to start over for a mistake he made. I left my job, my friends, everything to start over from the bottom again. He even lied to me what happened with his job. I cant go into details but he was forced to resign after 18 years.


It is amazing what people will do when they are so monumentally insecure. To the AP, he was desired and he did not have to do any of the work. In most long term marriages, you have to do more than walk in the door and say, "lets do it" in order to get one's wife in the mood. Its not a criticism of you or most women.. its simple biology and survival instincts.

Anyways, sorry that you had to go through this. It seems like he can't be honest with himself.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My husband was very much a KISA to his AP(s). He managed to spin some amazing tales about his many “sacrifices” (there certainly were sacrifices but not by him). Cheaters need lots of attention and they will do and say anything to get it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Girl, you're like my twin. The ****er had the nerve to tell the therapist he knew I could never cheat on him, he was so sure of me. The side chick is inconsequential, if it wasn't her, it would be someone else. Focus your rage on him, he's the one who made vows to you.
> 
> My drive came back with a vengeance after years of neglect after I made my decision and filed. I tried the whole FWB thing, and though it isn't for me, I learned to feel comfortable in my own skin as I am. You might surprise yourself, never say never. Just be honest and considerate of someone else's feelings.
> 
> ...


I won’t say never 😂 I am not heinous looking and I have taken up running again. It was something I did with earnest before we moved. I’m up to 4 miles a day so for a granny I hold my own. 😂

I guess it’s the how do you eat an elephant kinda thing...one bite at a time. I suppose I try to convince myself I can tread water. 

I do feel a tremendous amount of shame...I try not to but it is there. I think it stems from believing his lies, having sex and then finding out they were lies...him saying I’ll never lie again...rinse and repeat.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DesertRat1978 said:


> It is amazing what people will do when they are so monumentally insecure. To the AP, he was desired and he did not have to do any of the work. In most long term marriages, you have to do more than walk in the door and say, "lets do it" in order to get one's wife in the mood. Its not a criticism of you or most women.. its simple biology and survival instincts.
> 
> Anyways, sorry that you had to go through this. It seems like he can't be honest with himself.


I think he doesn’t want to believe the truth about himself. He has said as much once or twice when he opened up.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> My husband was very much a KISA to his AP(s). He managed to spin some amazing tales about his many “sacrifices” (there certainly were sacrifices but not by him). Cheaters need lots of attention and they will do and say anything to get it.


For me sometimes the betrayal of who I was and what I did for him was worse then him having sex with her.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I think he doesn’t want to believe the truth about himself. He has said as much once or twice when he opened up.


Not condoning him but really being honest with yourself after so long is tough and only he can do it. In his case, most likely predates him knowing you. Just curious, is he someone that exaggerates? For example, is he just a bit sick or is it terrible, life-threatening, almost died, and blah, blah, blah?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DesertRat1978 said:


> Not condoning him but really being honest with yourself after so long is tough and only he can do it. In his case, most likely predates him knowing you. Just curious, is he someone that exaggerates? For example, is he just a bit sick or is it terrible, life-threatening, almost died, and blah, blah, blah?


That is a great question...he has always been insecure. I was his first girlfriend when he was 23. Unless he is lying. He does exaggerate stories...sometimes even makes some up. I have caught him in lies before...things he doesn’t even need to lie about. He is very closed off emotionally and when he sees me cry his natural instinct is to walk away. If it makes him uncomfortable he is out.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DesertRat1978 said:


> It is amazing what people will do when they are so monumentally insecure. To the AP, he was desired and he did not have to do any of the work. In most long term marriages, you have to do more than walk in the door and say, "lets do it" in order to get one's wife in the mood. Its not a criticism of you or most women.. its simple biology and survival instincts.
> 
> Anyways, sorry that you had to go through this. It seems like he can't be honest with himself.


Spot on! My ex H was a lazy lover, he expected to say let's do it and I should be ready right away, or climb on and ride away. All the while, separating our issues. 


Torninhalf said:


> I won’t say never 😂 I am not heinous looking and I have taken up running again. It was something I did with earnest before we moved. I’m up to 4 miles a day so for a granny I hold my own. 😂
> 
> I guess it’s the how do you eat an elephant kinda thing...one bite at a time. I suppose I try to convince myself I can tread water.
> 
> I do feel a tremendous amount of shame...I try not to but it is there. I think it stems from believing his lies, having sex and then finding out they were lies...him saying I’ll never lie again...rinse and repeat.


That's wonderful! Think of that as the beginning of your journey to self-discovery. When you start feeling good about yourself again, you'll want to kick yourself for accepting crumbs.


Torninhalf said:


> For me sometimes the betrayal of who I was and what I did for him was worse then him having sex with her.


Man, again you hit me in the feels. I put up with ED, ****ty sex when there was any, no emotional connection while providing a comfortable home, home-cooked family holidays, and tolerating his and his family's BS, for what?

Think of it this way... He betrayed you, will you betray yourself too? You're a loving, caring person, it's time you loved and cared for yourself.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Spot on! My ex H was a lazy lover, he expected to say let's do it and I should be ready right away, or climb on and ride away. All the while, separating our issues.
> 
> That's wonderful! Think of that as the beginning of your journey to self-discovery. When you start feeling good about yourself again, you'll want to kick yourself for accepting crumbs.
> 
> ...


Wow...that hit...hard. I am betraying myself. 😔


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> That is a great question...he has always been insecure. I was his first girlfriend when he was 23. Unless he is lying. He does exaggerate stories...sometimes even makes some up. I have caught him in lies before...things he doesn’t even need to lie about. He is very closed off emotionally and when he sees me cry his natural instinct is to walk away. If it makes him uncomfortable he is out.


When I was a kid, I made up outlandish stories because of being insecure. Did not want the other kids to know that I came from the trailer park, had no fancy toys, did not go anywhere cool, and really had nothing interesting to say. No one wanted to play/hang out with a kid who had nothing and did not really do anything. As I got older, that went away. It would seem as if he does not think that he is special, interesting, etc. His second life is way more interesting (at least to him) than his real self. 

Last one, is he an inordinately private person? For example, does have hobbies/interests that he does not tell anyone about. Does he have online profiles where he can be anonymous?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DesertRat1978 said:


> When I was a kid, I made up outlandish stories because of being insecure. Did not want the other kids to know that I came from the trailer park, had no fancy toys, did not go anywhere cool, and really had nothing interesting to say. As I got older, that went away.
> 
> Last one, is he an inordinately private person? For example, does have hobbies/interests that he does not tell anyone about. Does he have online profiles where he can be anonymous?


He has no online presence at all and when I blew up the affair he told people I contacted that I was having issues and he was a faithful man. He did come clean to 2 people but said it was just a sexting thing and I blew it out of proportion. He is also kinda fearful. Scared to do new things or things out of his comfort zone...except screwing a coworker...😂


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> He has no online presence at all and when I blew up the affair he told people I contacted that I was having issues and he was a faithful man. He did come clean to 2 people but said it was just a sexting thing and I blew it out of proportion. He is also kinda fearful. Scared to do new things or things out of his comfort zone...except screwing a coworker...😂


Hmm... it appears as if you are his comfort zone. The sexting item is just so it can appear as if he committed a less egregious offense. Sexting to some is less condemning than having the full affair where you meet the person, have sex, profess love, and so on. Anyways, hope life gets better for you. Why let him ruin the rest of your life?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DesertRat1978 said:


> Hmm... it appears as if you are his comfort zone. The sexting item is just so it can appear as if he committed a less egregious offense. Sexting to some is less condemning than having the full affair where you meet the person, have sex, profess love, and so on. Anyways, hope life gets better for you.


He has said many times he can’t be without me. He has had long conversations with our daughter which she has reiterated to me which is all in the same vein. 
Yes he wanted to appear less “wrong”. Sadly it makes me look like a crazy jealous wife which before this I had never been.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Wow...that hit...hard. I am betraying myself. 😔


Believe me, love, I completely understand how you feel. I spent a few months in therapy, and my therapist told me I needed to be a better friend to myself. I didn't understand what that meant, but the negative self-talk has to stop. At least catch yourself in the moment, and then pretend it's your daughter. Would you want a miserable, loveless life for her?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Believe me, love, I completely understand how you feel. I spent a few months in therapy, and my therapist told me I needed to be a better friend to myself. I didn't understand what that meant, but the negative self-talk has to stop. At least catch yourself in the moment, and then pretend it's your daughter. Would you want a miserable, loveless life for her?


Hell no...we talked about that just yesterday her and I. I begged her to do better.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> He has said many times he can’t be without me. He has had long conversations with our daughter which she has reiterated to me which is all in the same vein.
> Yes he wanted to appear less “wrong”. Sadly it makes me look like a crazy jealous wife which before this I had never been.


How long did the affair go on for? 

I can't see someone like him changing in any profound way if he can't be honest with himself and come clean. Therefore, any attempts at reconciliation are going to be you doing all the work and him reaping the benefits yet again. Have you not done enough?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DesertRat1978 said:


> How long did the affair go on for?
> 
> I can't see someone like him changing in any profound way if he can't be honest with himself and come clean. Therefore, any attempts at reconciliation are going to be you doing all the work and him reaping the benefits yet again. Have you not done enough?


It was 2 years. They worked together so when it ended physically they still talked about me and my rage. She had a boyfriend and I told him. Husband was pissed to say the least.
It seems I have been the only one doing the work. He has stepped up his game in other areas but opening up, talking, addressing my PTSD from the years of gaslighting is excruciating for him.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I told him that I felt like he thought he owned me. He could do or not do what he wanted and I would still love him. I don’t understand the sexual side. I wanna kill the *** he had an affair with and on a couple of occasions he acted turned on by the thought of me with someone else. He can separate the sexual act from love...I really can’t. Not that I have not thought about a fling but I would be using someone else and if they didn’t care it wouldn’t be someone I would want to be with if that makes sense.


You make perfect sense. You've faced desires, you understand temptation, but you also understand boundaries and what it meant to you to be married.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> It was 2 years. They worked together so when it ended physically they still talked about me and my rage. She had a boyfriend and I told him. Husband was pissed to say the least.
> It seems I have been the only one doing the work. He has stepped up his game in other areas but opening up, talking, addressing my PTSD from the years of gaslighting is excruciating for him.


Just think about this. 2 years... it takes some serious planning, covering one's tracks, preparing for eventualities, etc. to get away with an affair for 2 years... coworker or not. Every day, he dedicated time and thought to how his day would go so that he could have his fun with her and come home to his comfort zone, you. This is not like it simply came to him and he reacted. No, he went out of his way to seek it out and make sure it lasted. Anyways, nice chatting with you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> You make perfect sense. You've faced desires, you understand temptation, but you also understand boundaries and what it meant to you to be married.


Thank you for that.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Hell no...we talked about that just yesterday her and I. I begged her to do better.


You know showing is better than telling, right
 
I know you're in the reasoning phase, but.....let those running endorphins stir you into action!

Quit being sad, get mad and kick that loser in the 'nads!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> You know showing is better than telling, right
> 
> I know you're in the reasoning phase, but.....let those running endorphins stir you into action!
> 
> Quit being sad, get mad and kick that loser in the 'nads!


I know you are right. I suppose I am kinda bargaining with myself. I can do A if I get B. 
Sometimes I think a death would have been easier than this. Horrible to compare I know. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you for that.


I hope that you come out of this quickly and find a partner that brings you true joy and a sense of, how shall I say it, forbidden pleasure? Someone who will engage the fantasy side of your mind, reawaken something that will make you feel very special and wanted and wanting of more. And a partner who will feel exactly the same way about you.

It's not mine to tell you to write your husband off, but if he can't come around to YOUR terms, it's time to set sail for the guy I described above. In this regard, you are a grandma in name only.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I hope that you come out of this quickly and find a partner that brings you true joy and a sense of, how shall I say it, forbidden pleasure? Someone who will engage the fantasy side of your mind, reawaken something that will make you feel very special and wanted and wanting of more. And a partner who will feel exactly the same way about you.
> 
> It's not mine to tell you to write your husband off, but if he can't come around to YOUR terms, it's time to set sail for the guy I described above. In this regard, you are a grandma in name only.


That sounds like a goal worthy of obtaining 😁 Does it exist though? In a world like we live now are there really men out there that love like that?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I know you are right. I suppose I am kinda bargaining with myself. I can do A if I get B.
> Sometimes I think a death would have been easier than this. Horrible to compare I know. 🤷🏼‍♀️


It is a death. I'm still grieving for the dream I wanted, while working towards another one.

Here's the thing, it's time to stop focusing on him. It doesn't matter _why_ he did what he did, it's done. He's showed you he doesn't give a flying **** about anyone but himself, he's *still* doing as he pleases when he pleases and has no reason to do different. You're still there.

I propose you do something outrageous. Make _*you*_ the focus now. Be your best friend, analyze yourself. Think about what you want for the rest of your life. 

Maybe if you can envision the life you want, you'll have the strength to reach for it. That's what I did. It was ****ing scary, sometimes I have ****ty days when I can't deal. I cry a little, eat a few cookies, and pick myself up and keep marching on. 

We're happy to be your squad until you can cheer yourself on.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> That sounds like a goal worthy of obtaining 😁 Does it exist though? In a world like we live now are there really men out there that love like that?


You will never find out if you don't go looking, will you?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> That sounds like a goal worthy of obtaining 😁 Does it exist though? In a world like we live now are there really men out there that love like that?


Yes, there are. I can guarantee you that, right now, there are dozens of men reading your thread, thinking about the issues that are possibly incurable in their own relationships, and they read your thread and wonder, why do women like that (you) get tossed away while I have to deal with whatever I'm dealing with? 

Easy to say, easy for males to fantasize, because they don't know you, only your situation. They don't even know your fantasies, aside from those two lines you tossed out. But look at what _I_ made out of those two lines? And I'm not looking. 

So don't write yourself off. There are decent guys out there. And there are creeps. If you decide to start over, take some time to get to know potential partners. Don't rush anything. But the flip side, if your marriage is over, don't let anything stall the process. You need to be divorced, on paper, before moving on. You value marriage, so don't be part of dirtying the institution. That was what your husband did. You're not him. You're better.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> It is a death. I'm still grieving for the dream I wanted, while working towards another one.
> 
> Here's the thing, it's time to stop focusing on him. It doesn't matter _why_ he did what he did, it's done. He's showed you he doesn't give a flying **** about anyone but himself, he's *still* doing as he pleases when he pleases and has no reason to do different. You're still there.
> 
> ...


I need a squad!! You and everyone else here has given me much food for thought. I really had admitted defeat. I guess I am so tired emotionally. Not trying to make excuses. Perhaps I am worthy and can dream. Thank you so very much!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> Yes, there are. I can guarantee you that, right now, there are dozens of men reading your thread, thinking about the issues that are possibly incurable in their own relationships, and they read your thread and wonder, why do women like that (you) get tossed away while I have to deal with whatever I'm dealing with?
> 
> Easy to say, easy for males to fantasize, because they don't know you, only your situation. They don't even know your fantasies, aside from those two lines you tossed out. But look at what _I_ made out of those two lines? And I'm not looking.
> 
> So don't write yourself off. There are decent guys out there. And there are creeps. If you decide to start over, take some time to get to know potential partners. Don't rush anything. But the flip side, if your marriage is over, don't let anything stall the process. You need to be divorced, on paper, before moving on. You value marriage, so don't be part of dirtying the institution. That was what your husband did. You're not him. You're better.


Thank you so much for the time you have spent on me. Everyone here has overwhelmed me today with real caring and acceptance and it is refreshing. I want to believe everything you say. I want to know that I am good, decent and kind. Worthy of someone who won’t lie and then expect me to wrap my legs around them. I don’t want to harden which I know I will if I don’t leave. Again thank you so much.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I need a squad!! You and everyone else here has given me much food for thought. I really had admitted defeat. I guess I am so tired emotionally. Not trying to make excuses. Perhaps I am worthy and can dream. Thank you so very much!


II've always kept to myself and have a hard time not feeling like I'm a burden to confide in my loved ones. I had a hard time feeling like a worthwhile person until I came here and went for therapy.

Sometimes you need someone to show you yourself through their eye until you can see that. It's hard to feel good about yourself when your husband’s constant message is you're unworthy. You are are loving, caring person. You deserve the same, even if it's only from yourself.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> II've always kept to myself and have a hard time not feeling like I'm a burden to confide in my loved ones. I had a hard time feeling like a worthwhile person until I came here and went for therapy.
> 
> Sometimes you need someone to show you yourself through their eye until you can see that. It's hard to feel good about yourself when your husband’s constant message is you're unworthy. You are are loving, caring person. You deserve the same, even if it's only from yourself.


I don’t have anyone that I confide in other than my daughter and some of the details are too much to share. She loves her dad and I have to keep that in mind. I appreciate the nudge I think I sorely needed to maybe stop treading water and finally swim for shore. I know I won’t win any medals for my butterfly stroke but with some help I’ll make my best attempt. 🙃


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I don’t have anyone that I confide in other than my daughter and some of the details are too much to share. She loves her dad and I have to keep that in mind. I appreciate the nudge I think I sorely needed to maybe stop treading water and finally swim for shore. I know I won’t win any medals for my butterfly stroke but with some help I’ll make my best attempt. 🙃


Can you get counseling? It really helped me. It was so hard, but I'm so grateful for my therapist's guidance. 

The TAM community was invaluable in waking me up and helping me when I needed it the most. Keep checking in, we want to see you happy. It doesn't matter how you get to shore once you make it there alive.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you so much for the time you have spent on me. Everyone here has overwhelmed me today with real caring and acceptance and it is refreshing. I want to believe everything you say. I want to know that I am good, decent and kind. Worthy of someone who won’t lie and then expect me to wrap my legs around them . I don’t want to harden which I know I will if I don’t leave. Again thank you so much.


OK, just to be clear, there are many men, who would make great, caring, devoted husbands, that would not have much interest in a woman that had issues about wrapping their legs around them (not "on demand" but as a normal and frequent part of affection). If you're looking for something more platonic, something where such desires would never be an issue, you're going to be shrinking the field considerably. I would suggest that the mere existence of such an expectation is not a negative sign; it's just one thing in a long list of things some would be looking for. It's very important to be clear about your view of intimacy, how you would feel about someone who felt closest to you, who looks forward to cuddling all night long, after sexual intimacy.

An issue many have, men and women, is a lack of self-awareness, a lack of understanding the moment and what it means to their partner. If you make it all about yourself, you may reap what you sow.

(Added 2 hours later- Wow, did I shut things down with this post???)


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> That sounds like a goal worthy of obtaining 😁 Does it exist though? In a world like we live now are there really men out there that love like that?


Even if there isn’t... you did say you had a wonderful 6 months on your own. At the end of the day, having your wonderful self and no man is better than this.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Worthy of someone who won’t lie and then expect me to wrap my legs around them.


Grandma, there are many of us out here who doubt our "worthiness" because of the stains other people put upon us, adultery is perhaps the most intractable of these stains...... However, when you lead your grandbaby toward adulthood, teaching him/her to espouse good and eschew evil....

.....well, you may just want to keep your porch.....

...... a certain man arrived along his way at a high precipice, stopped, looked down at the ground far below, and decided to remain where he was, rather than jump.....
I want to propose a thought to you..... that this certain man did not react out of "fear"....rather, out of sound judgement.....because he could accurately predict the results of jumping.....

on your porch, you can teach your grandbaby that his/her worthiness is not determined by the actions of others, only by his/her own....


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Can you get counseling? It really helped me. It was so hard, but I'm so grateful for my therapist's guidance.
> 
> The TAM community was invaluable in waking me up and helping me when I needed it the most. Keep checking in, we want to see you happy. It doesn't matter how you get to shore once you make it there alive.


I tried therapy on 2 occasion. Not individual but marriage. One suggested medication and the other simply said to forgive and move on. Neither answer was doable for me. I am looking into finding a therapist that can help me manage what I believe is PTSD from the gaslighting, the inability to even trust my own gut now. COVID has made things difficult in finding one that has face to face sessions. I do believe I will stick around this time. I hope I can be half as helpful as you have.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> OK, just to be clear, there are many men, who would make great, caring, devoted husbands, that would not have much interest in a woman that had issues about wrapping their legs around them (not "on demand" but as a normal and frequent part of affection). If you're looking for something more platonic, something where such desires would never be an issue, you're going to be shrinking the field considerably. I would suggest that the mere existence of such an expectation is not a negative sign; it's just one thing in a long list of things some would be looking for. It's very important to be clear about your view of intimacy, how you would feel about someone who felt closest to you, who looks forward to cuddling all night long, after sexual intimacy.
> 
> An issue many have, men and women, is a lack of self-awareness, a lack of understanding the moment and what it means to their partner. If you make it all about yourself, you may reap what you sow.
> 
> (Added 2 hours later- Wow, did I shut things down with this post???)


You certainly didn’t shut it down for me. I just went to bed for the evening 😂
I think part of what makes it all so confusing to me is I never cut off sex or used it as a bargaining chip in our marriage. I understood very early on it was his love language. The only time it was not frequent was after the birth of my children. I enjoyed it and knew how important it was in our marriage so for hIm to seek it else where was crushing. For him to be with us both for the time his affair was going on was horrific to me especially because she has a boyfriend as well. 
I don’t think I would ever enter another relationship where sex was not part of the equation because to me that would just be a friend not a lover. I’m older now but I still have needs. 😉
Sex to me now isn’t intimate, in fact as I said I kinda leave my body and have a hard time remembering it the next day. Not sure what that is about to be honest. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Even if there isn’t... you did say you had a wonderful 6 months on your own. At the end of the day, having your wonderful self and no man is better than this.


You are absolutely correct! 😁


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TJW said:


> Grandma, there are many of us out here who doubt our "worthiness" because of the stains other people put upon us, adultery is perhaps the most intractable of these stains...... However, when you lead your grandbaby toward adulthood, teaching him/her to espouse good and eschew evil....
> 
> .....well, you may just want to keep your porch.....
> 
> ...


How does one remove the stains? Combat the doubt? 
I suppose I am at that precipice... I so want to jump so I can stop looking over my shoulder at what is coming for me. 
I want to be the best grandma I can be because the last few years I have been half the woman I know I am.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> The 6 months we were apart was the most peace I felt in years. He did come here many times. Always found an excuse to see me...the gutters needed cleaning etc. At the end of the day though I had the house to myself. I didn’t have to make small talk. I could feel my pain in peace.
> 
> He wants to stay together, says he can’t imagine a life without me. Vows to never hurt me again. He just won’t tell the truth about the affair. He prefers if I never mention it again. He can’t comprehend that I will never trust him again.
> 
> ...



The next time he brings up wanting to be with you, never will hurt you again blah blah blah, tell him that he hurts you every single day by not coming completely clean and still hiding. Tell him that the fact that he puts feeling potential discomfort of full exposure before your pain, tells you all you need to know and that you can't imagine a life with him if you are honest. He needs to hear this, he needs to know the damage he has done and if there is ever to be any healing together or apart he must come clean. Without it there is no future. Congrats on your new grandchild


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I don’t know. He has said he thinks I should have an affair. 🤷🏼‍♀️


 Why would you stoop to his level and play in the mud like a pig, you sound like you have alot more class!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

aine said:


> Why would you stoop to his level and play in the mud like a pig, you sound like you have alot more class!


I tell him all the time the damage his lying has done. He claims he understands. Knowing him as long as I do I can see he does know it but for some reason he just can’t get himself to be completely honest. As I have stated he has changed in many way this last year. He does many acts of service now that he would ignore in the past. Quite frankly if I asked him to climb on the roof because there was a leaf on it he would do it. I guess that is why I thought I could kinda just tread water and continue on. If I don’t talk about the affair or show any pain we are very peaceful. He is attentive and always asking what he can do for me.

As to having an affair I’m really not interested even with the hall pass of sorts. For one thing he would know and isn’t half the fun the sneaking around and the getting away with something? 
Second having an affair for revenge or to even the score would put an innocent third party in the mix of a horrible scenario and I want no part of that.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I get what you're saying and thought long and hard about revealing evidence I had to XH's parents when they gave me the cold shoulder. But in the end I didn't want anything to damage my son and they are more likely to believe their son over me. I just made peace with it. Recently XH told our son that I didn't think he was the person I had married and asked for a divorce and he couldn't stop me. Then an interrogation of sorts by my son followed in which he essentially asked why I had divorced his Dad. Tried giving generic answers like "when two married people fall out of love and argue a lot sometime they get a divorce. But it NEVER means they stop loving their kids. We both love you very very much and that will never change." Don't want him having that stigma of coming from a home where parent cheated because it might effect his future relationships. In the end, it didn't bother me if people believe XH's BS because I was free and that was all I needed. People's behavior has a way of coming out in the end.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> As to having an affair I’m really not interested even with the hall pass of sorts. For one thing he would know and isn’t half the fun the sneaking around and the getting away with something?
> Second having an affair for revenge or to even the score would put an innocent third party in the mix of a horrible scenario and I want no part of that.


Exactly! Don't stoop to his level and let his actions turn you into someone you're not.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> I get what you're saying and thought long and hard about revealing evidence I had to XH's parents when they gave me the cold shoulder. But in the end I didn't want anything to damage my son and they are more likely to believe their son over me. I just made peace with it. Recently XH told our son that I didn't think he was the person I had married and asked for a divorce and he couldn't stop me. Then an interrogation of sorts by my son followed in which he essentially asked why I had divorced his Dad. Tried giving generic answers like "when two married people fall out of love and argue a lot sometime they get a divorce. But it NEVER means they stop loving their kids. We both love you very very much and that will never change." Don't want him having that stigma of coming from a home where parent cheated because it might effect his future relationships. In the end, it didn't bother me if people believe XH's BS because I was free and that was all I needed. People's behavior has a way of coming out in the end.


I’m sorry you went through that. Both my children are grown and know most of the details. I have no clue how it will impact their lives. I hate that we are all in this situation. I also hate that it will boil down to me in the end. The decision to divorce will be put on my shoulders.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you very well could be the bad guy in the eyes of some if you get out — especially with extended family and friends (at least that was true for me). It will be pointed out that he’s “trying so hard” to save his family after his “mistake”. You may also hear “But he’s changed and is a better person now”. Blah, blah, blah. He almost becomes the hero and you the villain in the process. I heard all of that when I got out. My response was that they weren’t living my life and I was. Extended family and friends can often feel they have a vested interest in long marriages and they shouldn’t. It’s not about them.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> Yes, you very well could be the bad guy in the eyes of some if you get out — especially with extended family and friends (at least that was true for me). It will be pointed out that he’s “trying so hard” to save his family after his “mistake”. You may also hear “But he’s changed and is a better person now”. Blah, blah, blah. He almost becomes the hero and you the villain in the process. I heard all of that when I got out. My response was that they weren’t living my life and I was. Extended family and friends can often feel they have a vested interest in long marriages and they shouldn’t. It’s not about them.


Fortunately I have no family and his has already taken the I don’t want to get involved route. My fear is my daughter only. My son thinks we should have separated already. 
The biggest issue I face now is how do I support myself. I don’t have a job at the moment and I have not worked in many years so while I was making very good money when we moved here there is a huge gap now. 
I just refinanced my house and lowered my payment a couple hundred dollars but I’m not sure I could support the house for longer than a year or so before I would have to sell and start living off the proceeds.
I know I get half his pension from his first job and I assume I would get some alimony as well.
I worry about medical benefits as I’m not young anymore.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Do you remember this? "My children are both grown but my daughter still lives at home and what she has witnesses is abhorrent. I don't work at the present moment and sadly can't leave because of finances."

That was you in 2018. Except now your kids are having kids and you're a grandma.

How do you support yourself? You put yourself out there and try to get work. Otherwise you're stuck in a situation of your own design. After 3 years, we can only surmise that you are in this situation because you want to be.

And unless you live in a huge mansion worth a ton of money, living off half the proceeds of the sale of your home is not a solution to the problem. It's a short-term band-aid, because eventually that money will be gone too.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> The biggest issue I face now is how do I support myself. I don’t have a job at the moment and I have not worked in many years so while I was making very good money when we moved here there is a huge gap now.
> I just refinanced my house and lowered my payment a couple hundred dollars but I’m not sure I could support the house for longer than a year or so before I would have to sell and start living off the proceeds.
> I know I get half his pension from his first job and I assume I would get some alimony as well.
> I worry about medical benefits as I’m not young anymore.


Sorry if I missed this, but have you spoken to a lawyer about what you would be entitled to in the event of a divorce? Since you mention supporting yourself is your chief anxiety, a lawyer would be able to discuss with you what you might be entitled to and what you would leave the marriage with in terms of custody, alimony, what to do with marital assets etc. even insurance. Even if you decide that's a financial loss, and you want to stay together, it might be worth to know the answer to some of these questions. It was my experience that worrying about was way more stressful than being armed with the actual answers to some of these questions. Noticed a few people on this forum mention speaking to a lawyer before deciding what to do next. 

It's hard, but it is possible to start a new job or career late in life. A few folks on this forum have shared their experience with that. I was in my early 30s when I got divorced and have spent the past few years rebuilding but it was absolutely worth it. I can earn a living now, support my family and help my students. I have colleagues who have started again in their 50s. It's not easy but it is absolutely worth it. And most of all, I could sleep at night without all of the stress of a bad marriage weighing on me.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Tron said:


> Do you remember this? "My children are both grown but my daughter still lives at home and what she has witnesses is abhorrent. I don't work at the present moment and sadly can't leave because of finances."
> 
> That was you in 2018. Except now your kids are having kids and you're a grandma.
> 
> ...


I hear you loud and clear. When I last posted I was going in for surgery. The surgery was a success but the recovery was a bit longer than expected. It took the better part of a year for me to come back to who I was physically. Prolonged bleeding for years led to severe anemia and white cell count completely destroyed. It took almost as long before I was finally thinking normally again. There came a point I was feeling more myself and really started exercising renewing my love for running and I suppose I thought I could somehow carve out a little life among the mess. Horrible excuses for not doing exactly as you said. COVID has prevented me from seeking employment but I won’t let that deter me now.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but have you spoken to a lawyer about what you would be entitled to in the event of a divorce? Since you mention supporting yourself is your chief anxiety, a lawyer would be able to discuss with you what you might be entitled to and what you would leave the marriage with in terms of custody, alimony, what to do with marital assets etc. even insurance. Even if you decide that's a financial loss, and you want to stay together, it might be worth to know the answer to some of these questions. It was my experience that worrying about was way more stressful than being armed with the actual answers to some of these questions. Noticed a few people on this forum mention speaking to a lawyer before deciding what to do next.
> 
> It's hard, but it is possible to start a new job or career late in life. A few folks on this forum have shared their experience with that. I was in my early 30s when I got divorced and have spent the past few years rebuilding but it was absolutely worth it. I can earn a living now, support my family and help my students. I have colleagues who have started again in their 50s. It's not easy but it is absolutely worth it. And most of all, I could sleep at night without all of the stress of a bad marriage weighing on me.


I did speak to a lawyer a while back. Things seem pretty cut and dry. Half the pension, alimony and half the assets. My husband has offered to sign a post nup stating if we separate the house is mine. He states he wants no proceeds from it. I err on the side of caution and figure half of it is mine. I’m looking at about 60k


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I did speak to a lawyer a while back. Things seem pretty cut and dry. Half the pension, alimony and half the assets. My husband has offered to sign a post nup stating if we separate the house is mine. He states he wants no proceeds from it. I err on the side of caution and figure half of it is mine. I’m looking at about 60k


Assuming you are in your 50's and you don't want to live in a tent, 60K won't buy much home these days or last very long paying rent. And it seems from your statements that you don't think that you will be able to survive on half his pension and temporary alimony. Understand also that the alimony would probably end when he reaches retirement age and what you'll have then is whatever the pension and social security get you. 

Have you spoken to a financial advisor about any of this?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Tron said:


> Assuming you are in your 50's and you don't want to live in a tent, 60K won't buy much home these days or last very long paying rent. And it seems from your statements that you don't think that you will be able to survive on half his pension and temporary alimony. Understand also that the alimony would probably end when he reaches retirement age and what you'll have then is whatever the pension and social security get you.
> 
> Have you spoken to a financial advisor about any of this?


I have not. I have considered taking in a tenant to help prolong not having to sell the house. I suppose when I look at it all on paper is seems so dismal given the 33 year investment in this marriage. Part of the whole reason I had resigned myself to just tread water.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I have not. I have considered taking in a tenant to help prolong not having to sell the house. I suppose when I look at it all on paper is seems so dismal given the 33 year investment in this marriage. Part of the whole reason I had resigned myself to just tread water.


You mentioned you have a degree and worked on a masters? Why not try to secure a telecommuting position? Online personal assistant, appointment booking, data entry... there are so many job search websites that have open opportunities right now. You seem well written and intelligent. Or take a certification for something that will qualify you for a position. Dental assisting, medical assisting, medical transcription, the possibilities are endless. I mean crap, if you want to do dog walking and poop scooping who cares if it earns you your freedom.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Tron said:


> Understand also that the alimony would probably end when he reaches retirement age


Not necessarily.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> You mentioned you have a degree and worked on a masters? Why not try to secure a telecommuting position? Online personal assistant, appointment booking, data entry... there are so many job search websites that have open opportunities right now. You seem well written and intelligent. Or take a certification for something that will qualify you for a position. Dental assisting, medical assisting, medical transcription, the possibilities are endless. I mean crap, if you want to do dog walking and poop scooping who cares if it earns you your freedom.


You are correct...I know it is going to come off as an excuse and it is to an extent. I felt so beat down due to health issues and mental torture I couldn’t even see myself having the fortitude to work again. I did believe him when he told me I was crazy. His gaslighting skills were outstanding. He had me thinking up was down.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> You are correct...I know it is going to come off as an excuse and it is to an extent. I felt so beat down due to health issues and mental torture I couldn’t even see myself having the fortitude to work again. I did believe him when he told me I was crazy. His gaslighting skills were outstanding. He had me thinking up was down.


Well you know that doing it is the only way to overcome that hurdle. In many ways you are doing “the devil you know” bit on yourself because it’s easier and less uncomfortable that looking down the uncertainty of your future. 

So it’s obvious now that you are purposefully keeping yourself trapped with this man. The only person keeping you from escaping is you... you are literally NOT stuck, as you have the education and the means to support yourself and many good years to build your future. 60k is a great savings account and start to a new life. 

I’m so sorry your life didn’t work out as planned, but you aren’t dead yet. You don’t have to live your life as though you are.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Well you know that doing it is the only way to overcome that hurdle. In many ways you are doing “the devil you know” bit on yourself because it’s easier and less uncomfortable that looking down the uncertainty of your future.
> 
> So it’s obvious now that you are purposefully keeping yourself trapped with this man. The only person keeping you from escaping is you... you are literally NOT stuck, as you have the education and the means to support yourself and many good years to build your future. 60k is a great savings account and start to a new life.
> 
> I’m so sorry your life didn’t work out as planned, but you aren’t dead yet. You don’t have to live your life as though you are.


Yes, yes I am doing the devil I know. Its all fear based and you are correct. 
So I need a plan 😂
I don’t want to fight with him, I don’t want to go back to that insanity.
I want to make my moves quietly to cause the least amount of stress.
I am open to any and all suggestions


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Yes, yes I am doing the devil I know. Its all fear based and you are correct.
> So I need a plan 😂
> I don’t want to fight with him, I don’t want to go back to that insanity.
> I want to make my moves quietly to cause the least amount of stress.
> I am open to any and all suggestions


No need to fight. See a lawyer on what to do to prepare for divorce and separation. Start looking for a job and applying. Do it all behind the scenes. I think your mental state will vastly improve with just these few things. Having a plan is essential!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> No need to fight. See a lawyer on what to do to prepare for divorce and separation. Start looking for a job and applying. Do it all behind the scenes. I think your mental state will vastly improve with just these few things. Having a plan is essential!


How do you think I should broach the subject with him. Living with him will be difficult once he finds out I do want out. I thought about the possibility of just renting him an apartment. Having the place first and then telling him to go. I know if I leave it up to him he will drag his feet.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Sorry, but I don't see you leaving anytime soon. You are too hung up on how he will react and what he will think if you ever decide to leave. To hell with him. His disrespect for you is blatant. If you ever allow yourself to get justifiably ENRAGED over what this asshole has done, then you'll be able to stand up to him and do what needs to be done.

Yeah, I'm being blunt here. But you've been in this mess for years. The thing is, all sorts of stress-related illnesses can crop up, not to mention you're already emotionally wiped out. If you want to get your life back on track, you pull the plug. Hope you decide to leave this loser.

ETA: I also get the feeling you want to control how this plays out. Yeah, it would be great if everything went according to plan. But that's not life. Life can get very messy at times. It boils down to whether or not you want to take the risk to have a decent life or if you want to pander to your fear of the unknown. Your life. Your choice.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> Sorry, but I don't see you leaving anytime soon. You are too hung up on how he will react and what he will think if you ever decide to leave. To hell with him. His disrespect for you is blatant. If you ever allow yourself to get justifiably ENRAGED over what this asshole has done, then you'll be able to stand up to him and do what needs to be done.
> 
> Yeah, I'm being blunt here. But you've been in this mess for years. The thing is, all sorts of stress-related illnesses can crop up, not to mention you're already emotionally wiped out. If you want to get your life back on track, you pull the plug. Hope you decide to leave this loser.
> 
> ETA: I also get the feeling you want to control how this plays out. Yeah, it would be great if everything went according to plan. But that's not life. Life can get very messy at times. It boils down to whether or not you want to take the risk to have a decent life or if you want to pander to your fear of the unknown. Your life. Your choice.


I have been enraged. Many times. So much so and embarrassed to say I behaved in ways I shutter to think about. I have been in this mess for years, mourning my marriage, my life, my plans all gone up in smoke. To be with someone as long as I have and have it blow up the way it did was traumatic and clearly I didn’t process it correctly.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> OK, just to be clear, there are many men, who would make great, caring, devoted husbands, that would not have much interest in a woman that had issues about wrapping their legs around them (not "on demand" but as a normal and frequent part of affection). If you're looking for something more platonic, something where such desires would never be an issue, you're going to be shrinking the field considerably. I would suggest that the mere existence of such an expectation is not a negative sign; it's just one thing in a long list of things some would be looking for. It's very important to be clear about your view of intimacy, how you would feel about someone who felt closest to you, who looks forward to cuddling all night long, after sexual intimacy.
> 
> An issue many have, men and women, is a lack of self-awareness, a lack of understanding the moment and what it means to their partner. If you make it all about yourself, you may reap what you sow.
> 
> (Added 2 hours later- Wow, did I shut things down with this post???)


Yeah, kinda. I know you mean well, but it left a bad taste in my mouth to bring up sexless marriages. I think you misunderstood torn's experience with sex, and went off on a tangent, but she can speak for herself.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, I suggest you start by finding a good therapist. Then ask him or her for help with building healthy self-esteem and learning to establish healthy boundaries. That's really what you need. You need to be able to stand up for yourself and not tolerate things that you find intolerable. 

While you're doing that, polish up your resume. Stop using Covid as an excuse to not even look for work. Plenty of people are in the job market right now, and plenty of companies are hiring. My company just hired three engineers, two senior managers, a couple planners, and a new project manager. My husband's company has postings out for everything from administrative assistants to technical writers to data clerks to ops managers. Figure out what you are qualified for and start applying for jobs. You are going to need to have a good one.

See a divorce attorney and find out what the process would look like, what you'd need to do, what you could expect in a fair settlement, etc. You don't have to pay a retainer right now, but you should at least have a consultation or two to find an attorney you feel you can work with. Most will only charge you for an hour of their time for the consult, while some don't charge at all for an initial consult. It would help you to have a realistic view of what a divorce would look like, so you can plan accordingly. 

Honey, if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten....


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> How do you think I should broach the subject with him. Living with him will be difficult once he finds out I do want out. I thought about the possibility of just renting him an apartment. Having the place first and then telling him to go. I know if I leave it up to him he will drag his feet.


Honestly, if he is going to impede you or start crap in any way, wait until you have the job and a place and then do just that. Either you tell him with your bags packed or tell him to leave and if he doesn’t you go. I think a lawyer can advise you on the legalities and timing and help you with that. Just have yourself setup and then go regardless of his words and actions.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I started my resume today! It doesn’t look as bad as I thought even with the time gap. 
I suppose for some the realization that it is over comes down like a crashing gate. For others it’s more like a series of sheer curtains that eventually block all light. I’m ashamed for how long it has taken me.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Honestly, if he is going to impede you or start crap in any way, wait until you have the job and a place and then do just that. Either you tell him with your bags packed or tell him to leave and if he doesn’t you go. I think a lawyer can advise you on the legalities and timing and help you with that. Just have yourself setup and then go regardless of his words and actions.


I know I would feel better if I could tell him and have him move immediately.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I know I would feel better if I could tell him and have him move immediately.


That would be nice, but you can’t control what he does... have a contingency.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> That would be nice, but you can’t control what he does... have a contingency.


Like?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Like?


If my lawyer said I could still force a sale of the house if I had to move out, that’s what I would do. Move out myself.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> If my lawyer said I could still force a sale of the house if I had to move out, that’s what I would do. Move out myself.


Selling the house will be tricky. We have 2 pit bulls and they are not welcome at most apartment complexes. When we discussed divorce in the past he stated that he would want me to stay in the house for as long as we could carry it.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I tried therapy on 2 occasion. Not individual but marriage. One suggested medication and the other simply said to forgive and move on. Neither answer was doable for me. I am looking into finding a therapist that can help me manage what I believe is PTSD from the gaslighting, the inability to even trust my own gut now. COVID has made things difficult in finding one that has face to face sessions. I do believe I will stick around this time. I hope I can be half as helpful as you have.


Fire them and keep looking! I know this is a hard one, it's hard to rehash your story with someone new. Think about what you want from therapy, make a list and let each therapist know upfront, and if they can't help you, they can **** on off before you line their pockets.


joannacroc said:


> Exactly! Don't stoop to his level and let his actions turn you into someone you're not.


You'd be surprised how people love to do this, especially when they feel something lacking in themselves. Be your authentic self, I'm sure she wants you to love yourself and demand the respect you deserve. 



joannacroc said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but have you spoken to a lawyer about what you would be entitled to in the event of a divorce? Since you mention supporting yourself is your chief anxiety, a lawyer would be able to discuss with you what you might be entitled to and what you would leave the marriage with in terms of custody, alimony, what to do with marital assets etc. even insurance. Even if you decide that's a financial loss, and you want to stay together, it might be worth to know the answer to some of these questions. It was my experience that worrying about was way more stressful than being armed with the actual answers to some of these questions. Noticed a few people on this forum mention speaking to a lawyer before deciding what to do next.
> 
> It's hard, but it is possible to start a new job or career late in life. A few folks on this forum have shared their experience with that. I was in my early 30s when I got divorced and have spent the past few years rebuilding but it was absolutely worth it. I can earn a living now, support my family and help my students. I have colleagues who have started again in their 50s. It's not easy but it is absolutely worth it. And most of all, I could sleep at night without all of the stress of a bad marriage weighing on me.


Think about how you felt during those glorious 6 months of separation. You can have that again, and start over. I'm still job hunting and totally stressing over making my settlement last until I find a job while working on my MBA. You know what? I'm mostly at peace, it's priceless not to have reminders of my former life. 


Torninhalf said:


> I hear you loud and clear. When I last posted I was going in for surgery. The surgery was a success but the recovery was a bit longer than expected. It took the better part of a year for me to come back to who I was physically. Prolonged bleeding for years led to severe anemia and white cell count completely destroyed. It took almost as long before I was finally thinking normally again. There came a point I was feeling more myself and really started exercising renewing my love for running and I suppose I thought I could somehow carve out a little life among the mess. Horrible excuses for not doing exactly as you said. COVID has prevented me from seeking employment but I won’t let that deter me now.





Torninhalf said:


> You are correct...I know it is going to come off as an excuse and it is to an extent. I felt so beat down due to health issues and mental torture I couldn’t even see myself having the fortitude to work again. I did believe him when he told me I was crazy. His gaslighting skills were outstanding. He had me thinking up was down.


Again, you hit me in the feels  It really beats you down until you're a shell of a person and can't see how bad things truly are. You don't think you deserve better, or it's not as bad as you fear it will be if you leave, so you hold onto the familiar. If you want to PM me, I can share more details, just know you aren't alone in this.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I started my resume today! It doesn’t look as bad as I thought even with the time gap.
> I suppose for some the realization that it is over comes down like a crashing gate. For others it’s more like a series of sheer curtains that eventually block all light. I’m ashamed for how long it has taken me.


That is so awesome. Good for you!

During the "time gap" were you a stay at home mom? Because if so you definitely have marketable skills - interpersonal skills, negotation, timekeeper, you are able to set and stick to boundaries, you can instruct kids in a task then deligate tasks to them, so you have managerial skills, you probably can multitask pretty well. A lot of these are transferable. Plus if you have done any volunteer work or taken classes outside of your masters those are ways you have been working on yourself and building your skillset. Definitely would sell your time in that role as an asset, not a time gap. Good luck!

And don't be ashamed - letting go of someone you loved for so long is painful. If it's no big deal then you should be worried! Sometimes I think our mind protects us from more pain that we can handle in one go.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I started my resume today! It doesn’t look as bad as I thought even with the time gap.
> I suppose for some the realization that it is over comes down like a crashing gate. For others it’s more like a series of sheer curtains that eventually block all light. I’m ashamed for how long it has taken me.


Whoohooo! See??? No need to be ashamed, love. It's hard to take a step if you can't map out a route. Baby steps!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Thank you so much TX! The worst I think is having to endure this pain while living with the abuser. It is maddening. I can’t express how I feel knowing I am not alone anymore.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I started my resume today! It doesn’t look as bad as I thought even with the time gap.
> I suppose for some the realization that it is over comes down like a crashing gate. For others it’s more like a series of sheer curtains that eventually block all light. I’m ashamed for how long it has taken me.


Stop being ashamed, you worked on your own timeline and now you are doing something about your situation. It’s never too late.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Stop being ashamed, you worked on your own timeline and now you are doing something about your situation. It’s never too late.


I will have to work on the shame. Some days it is overpowering.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> I have been enraged. Many times.


The type of "enraged" to which I referred is the kind that motivates, not the kind that generates shame. Anger motivated me to get the hell outta Dodge. Perhaps something else will motivate you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> The type of "enraged" to which I referred is the kind that motivates, not the kind that generates shame. Anger motivated me to get the hell outta Dodge. Perhaps something else will motivate you.


I think the taste of peace I had motivates me to want more of it.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I think the taste of peace I had motivates me to want more of it.


And possibly added to your overall sadness and inability to continue being ok with this. Perhaps that peace is the catalyst that brought you back here and will motivate you to do something to regain it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> And possibly added to your overall sadness and inability to continue being ok with this. Perhaps that peace is the catalyst that brought you back here and will motivate you to do something to regain it.


It’s always that first step eh?


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## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Sometimes I think a death would have been easier than this. Horrible to compare I know. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Not really. You are still grieving a loss. The loss of the relationship you thought you had. It's normal, and it takes time. 

It doesn't stop you from learning to love yourself though. Running is a good start. Now, think of something else you can do, just for you.

Stop blaming yourself for the affair. He didn't cheat because of you or anything you did or did not do, he cheated because he is selfish and made the choice to do so. He is now making the choice to try to keep you in the dark as much as possible instead of giving you what you need to heal. 

Might want to read the Chump Lady. It will probably make you cry, but it might also help you get pissed off in a good way, and start taking what you need (or start moving on).


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

So Married said:


> Not really. You are still grieving a loss. The loss of the relationship you thought you had. It's normal, and it takes time.
> 
> It doesn't stop you from learning to love yourself though. Running is a good start. Now, think of something else you can do, just for you.
> 
> ...


I will have to check out Chump Lady...thank you for the recommendation. 
I do think loving myself has become part of the issue. Feeling as if somehow this is all I deserve.


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## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

That's normal too, but it's a dis-service to yourself. 

Your anguish is still palpable. I'm sorry that you are suffering so much. It will get better as you learn to love yourself again, when you KNOW that this isn't your fault and is NOT what you deserve.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

So Married said:


> That's normal too, but it's a dis-service to yourself.
> 
> Your anguish is still palpable. I'm sorry that you are suffering so much. It will get better as you learn to love yourself again, when you KNOW that this isn't your fault and is NOT what you deserve.


Wish it was simple like flipping a light switch...😁


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## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Wish it was simple like flipping a light switch...😁


It's always easier said than done. 

It does help when you stop punishing yourself for HIS bad behavior.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey Torn, how was your weekend? You holding up alright?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Hey Torn, how was your weekend? You holding up alright?


I’m doing ok! Had a lot to think about, really take stock of what a mess I have kept myself in. Tried hard not to wallow in it. Found myself grateful that I came back and interacted with so many great folks here. Your kindness lifted me up. 😁


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m doing ok! Had a lot to think about, really take stock of what a mess I have kept myself in. Tried hard not to wallow in it. Found myself grateful that I came back and interacted with so many great folks here. Your kindness lifted me up. 😁


Awww, thank you! Shock and awe have their place, but sometimes people are so sensitive and it does more harm than good. Personally, I prefer honesty, but I'm also very sensitive and can take things differently depending on my mood.

I remember when I first posted, I was rather taken back by a few harsh responses, not that I was looking to be coddled, but I was already devastated and it felt like a pile on. A few kind posters made all the difference and helped me gain the confidence to act.

It's wonderful that you are making the attempt not to wallow, it sure is tempting! But you've wallowed enough, it's time to seize control of your life and steer it how you want it to go. Were you able to give any thought to your action plan?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Awww, thank you! Shock and awe have their place, but sometimes people are so sensitive and it does more harm than good. Personally, I prefer honesty, but I'm also very sensitive and can take things differently depending on my mood.
> 
> I remember when I first posted, I was rather taken back by a few harsh responses, not that I was looking to be coddled, but I was already devastated and it felt like a pile on. A few kind posters made all the difference and helped me gain the confidence to act.
> 
> It's wonderful that you are making the attempt not to wallow, it sure is tempting! But you've wallowed enough, it's time to seize control of your life and steer it how you want it to go. Were you able to give any thought to your action plan?


I have. I have an appointment with a couple of attorneys and I am having my house appraised this coming weekend. 😁


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I have. I have an appointment with a couple of attorneys and I am having my house appraised this coming weekend. 😁


Whhhhhhat! Get on with your bad self! That's wonderful! How do you feel now that you are acting?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Whhhhhhat! Get on with your bad self! That's wonderful! How do you feel now that you are acting?


Much better! More hopeful than hopeless. 😉


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I have. I have an appointment with a couple of attorneys and I am having my house appraised this coming weekend. 😁


👍


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The exit has opened at the end of the tunnel.

You still need to walk through said tunnel but a few more steps and you'll start to see the light!


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