# All girls vacation



## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

Sorry in advance for the long post…
A little background, girlfriend and I have been together for 10 years and I’m about to propose to her. We are in our late 40s and consider each other as soulmates that unfortunately met later in life. She is a very caring individual and will help anyone to the point that I have to stop her a little. I don’t sky much, I am more of a snow shoe back country type of guy, she loves to sky and has been going to sky vacations for the past 3 years with 4 other girlfriends every year to a different location. 
Everything has been fine until this year, I was stroke with this gut feeling that something was wrong. After skying they all go to eat and bars, three of her friends are single and one that’s not single cheats on her boyfriend on this vacations. I do trust my girlfriend in every way. 
This time she told me that they met some guys and one of them was a big rancher that I will love to talk to because he had acres of land etc. I let her know about me being uneasy and my feelings, that I was feeling very uncomfortable and with anxiety. She reassured me that everything was respectful. 
But still my gut feeling didn’t stop and after she came back I did the unthinkable and went through her phone. In text I come to find out that her friends went to hotels with guys they met and her and her marry friend invited this guy they just met a rancher a truck driver to sleep in the sofa and hung with him in their apartment until like 4am before they went to sleep, all because it was cold and they didn’t want him to sleep in the truck. 
I flipped not only with jealousy but also because of the lack of safety. She decided to completely omit this part of the trip. Then even as mad as I was and hurt she received a text from the guy with a picture and one of his TikTok videos, a video she put in her friends group and replied to him with one of her TikTok videos. 
When I confronted her about it she told me she has no idea how the guy got her number that probably one of her friends gave it to her. 
Here is where I’m a little lost, she loves the show Yellowstone and the picture he sent her was welcome to Yellowstone meaning she discussed with him the show. Even though she knew that I was hurt and mad she still went ahead with her text. She says she didn’t tell me because I was mad and afraid of losing me. 
Am I making something that’s not there?
I do trust her but deep down inside I feel that something went wrong with this trip.


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## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

Lots of red flags here I think. Inviting strange men for a sleepover is just crazy. Hiding it is worse. Then hiding the communications with him when by her own admission she thought it was serious enough that she might lose you. The very best I can say about this is she has terrible boundaries. The worst is, well you know ..........
I really don't know the best way to handle this, but I am sure others will have great advice. Always trust your gut.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

more red flags here than I Chinese military parade. You've got a girlfriend with very poor boundaries at a minimum. Her circle of friends isn't helping the situation either.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Have you ever heard the saying “judge me by the company I keep”. 
Your girlfriend is not a teenager, she knows what sort of behaviour is appropriate and what’s not. And she’s lying to you. 
When people in their forties stay in each other’s hotel room it’s not to spend the night talking. 
They have sex.
And for her to say she has no idea how her one night stand got her phone number would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don’t propose just yet — or maybe ever.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Wonderer8 said:


> Sorry in advance for the long post…
> A little background, girlfriend and I have been together for 10 years and I’m about to propose to her. We are in our late 40s and consider each other as soulmates that unfortunately met later in life. She is a very caring individual and will help anyone to the point that I have to stop her a little. I don’t sky much, I am more of a snow shoe back country type of guy, she loves to sky and has been going to sky vacations for the past 3 years with 4 other girlfriends every year to a different location.
> Everything has been fine until this year, I was stroke with this gut feeling that something was wrong. After skying they all go to eat and bars, three of her friends are single and one that’s not single cheats on her boyfriend on this vacations. I do trust my girlfriend in every way.
> This time she told me that they met some guys and one of them was a big rancher that I will love to talk to because he had acres of land etc. I let her know about me being uneasy and my feelings, that I was feeling very uncomfortable and with anxiety. She reassured me that everything was respectful.
> ...


Really poor boundaries. Hanging out with men, corresponding with men. 

This isn't good behavior, especially for a woman closing in on 50.

Doesn't this change your mind about proposing? It would for me.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*You are who you surround yourself with. *

Her companions have lax boundaries around men. That's okay for singles, not for those in relationships. These friendships are not supportive of monogamous relationships.

Can you tolerate this behavior? Will she understand you need this to stop for the relationship to work?


She is an adult, so you can tell her what to do. You can however set a boundary that you are not comfortable in a relationship where this transpires. By her actions, she condones her cheating friend's activities... that's her boundary. 

What are your boundaries in this situation?


Best


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Listen to your gut.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Wonderer8 said:


> Everything has been fine until this year, I was stroke with this gut feeling that something was wrong. After skying they all go to eat and bars, three of her friends are single and one that’s not single cheats on her boyfriend on this vacations. I do trust my girlfriend in every way.
> *Never put 100% blind trust in anyone. Especially if they run with a cheater. This says she’s ok with cheating*.
> 
> This time she told me that they met some guys and one of them was a big rancher that I will love to talk to because he had acres of land etc. I let her know about me being uneasy and my feelings, that I was feeling very uncomfortable and with anxiety. She reassured me that everything was respectful.
> ...


You trust her? Nope, your gut instinct is telling you not to. Ignore it at your peril. You are reaching out here because you don’t believe her story. 
Your girl friend runs with a crowd that is ok with this type of behavior. Which means she is too.
She maybe ok as a girlfriend but I wouldn’t marry her. Dating is a tryout.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

#1. Make her tell the friends boyfriends. It is only the right thing to do.
#2. I would tell her I would have to have a poly(drive home how much she has screwed up your trust in her). 
Bet she balks. 

#3. No more girls vacations or GNO. She has shown weak boundaries and can not be trusted. 

#4. She dumps the cheating friends or they may dump her when she tells their BFs they are cheaters.

#5. NO I WON'T! OK don't let the door hit'ya, where the good Lord split ya!

If she is besties with cheaters then she sees no issue with cheating.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

She is what she is. You can’t change that. I’d bet she likes it that way and is fine with it.
Are you? Talking, etc is a waste of your time.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Bet that was one wild orgy...... You are old enough to see what happened here.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Marc878 said:


> She is what she is. You can’t change that. I’d bet she likes it that way and is fine with it.
> Are you? Talking, etc is a waste of your time.


I can see why you'd be uncomfortable. But at 40 years old she's old enough to make her own decisions and choices and handle herself how she chooses. It's not like she's some young naive thing putting herself in peril. It was sounds like a few women and one guy maybe. I wouldn't expect her to be giving up her friends after you marry so you better decide what you can live with now before you marry her. This was their vacation adventure. I seriously doubt she slept with anyone although I would almost assure you that one of the other ladies would have if they had the opportunity. If this is way off and left field morally for you, then she's not the right person for you to marry.. you'd be fighting about it in no time.


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I can see why you'd be uncomfortable. But at 40 years old she's old enough to make her own decisions and choices and handle herself how she chooses. It's not like she's some young naive thing putting herself in peril. It was sounds like a few women and one guy maybe. I wouldn't expect her to be giving up her friends after you marry so you better decide what you can live with now before you marry her. This was their vacation adventure. I seriously doubt she slept with anyone although I would almost assure you that one of the other ladies would have if they had the opportunity. If this is way off and left field morally for you, then she's not the right person for you to marry.. you'd be fighting about it in no time.





DownByTheRiver said:


> I can see why you'd be uncomfortable. But at 40 years old she's old enough to make her own decisions and choices and handle herself how she chooses. It's not like she's some young naive thing putting herself in peril. It was sounds like a few women and one guy maybe. I wouldn't expect her to be giving up her friends after you marry so you better decide what you can live with now before you marry her. This was their vacation adventure. I seriously doubt she slept with anyone although I would almost assure you that one of the other ladies would have if they had the opportunity. If this is way off and left field morally for you, then she's not the right person for you to marry.. you'd be fighting about it in no time.


I know that she didn’t cheat on me, our relationship is very strong always has been, we never fight and our sex life is epic. I do know that she is very trust worthy with people and sees no evil in people reason why she became a nurse to help people. Me as a person that did not grow up in this country calls her ways “the California upbringing” (it’s just a joke, no disrespect intended). I would never stop her from doing anything she likes.
I do see a disconnection with boundaries, a reason I found out about this was her phone text, something that easily could have been deleted if foul play was involved.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Too much trouble, it shouldn't be this hard.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Wonderer8 said:


> I know that she didn’t cheat on me, our relationship is very strong always has been, we never fight and our sex life is epic. I do know that she is very trust worthy with people and sees no evil in people reason why she became a nurse to help people. Me as a person that did not grow up in this country calls her ways “the California upbringing” (it’s just a joke, no disrespect intended). I would never stop her from doing anything she likes.
> I do see a disconnection with boundaries, a reason I found out about this was her phone text, something that easily could have been deleted if foul play was involved.


It you don’t mind her behavior and feel like trusting her no matter what then why are you here? 
There is an old saying “if you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas”.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Wonderer8 said:


> I know that she didn’t cheat on me, our relationship is very strong always has been, we never fight and our sex life is epic. I do know that she is very trust worthy with people and sees no evil in people reason why she became a nurse to help people. Me as a person that did not grow up in this country calls her ways “the California upbringing” (it’s just a joke, no disrespect intended). I would never stop her from doing anything she likes.
> I do see a disconnection with boundaries, a reason I found out about this was her phone text, something that easily could have been deleted if foul play was involved.


If you're sure she didn't cheat and everything else is going great with you two, I wouldn't break up over it. But you should let her know that it did bother you. People do have different boundaries. I mean there's nothing wrong with her friends doing what they want to if they're single. It comes down to whether you respect her enough to trust her to be able to take care of herself in situations like that or if you feel she is too influenced by other people and might do something just because of her friends doing it. I don't really know any grown women who are still walking off the cliff like lemmings with their friends so I would err on the side of respecting her judgment and ability to not go overboard.

But I would admit to her that it did give you a moment of panic and that you'd rather not to have those.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I don't know why your two are still dating at 10 years out but it looks to me like she might be disconnecting and looking to get out.

Does she know you are about to propose? Or is she sitting there thinking I've spent 10 years and nothing. I'd like someone I can grow old with. Resentment breeds looking around and wondering what if.

At this point, what's the point? If you didn't know 8 years ago or if she didn't know 8 years ago then one or both of you don't really want to be married. Find someone that both of you know you want each other after like 2 years tops. I think that amount of time speaks volumes about how you two aren't committed aren't feeling it and are just settling.

If it was you that didn't want to then I"m sure she's feeling not good enough.
If it was her she's telling you that you aren't her first choice.

Either way the other person deserves to be someone's first choice and be excited to be with them.


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## Asterix (May 16, 2021)

Wonderer8 said:


> I know that she didn’t cheat on me, our relationship is very strong always has been, we never fight and our sex life is epic. I do know that she is very trust worthy with people and sees no evil in people reason why she became a nurse to help people. Me as a person that did not grow up in this country calls her ways “the California upbringing” (it’s just a joke, no disrespect intended). I would never stop her from doing anything she likes.
> I do see a disconnection with boundaries, a reason* I found out about this was her phone text, something that easily could have been deleted if foul play was involved.*


It's either that, or she didn't expect you to go through her phone.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

I would tell the boyfriend of the cheater, he deserves to know, and he may just have something to tell you.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

what happens at the ski lodge stays at the ski lodge I guess. The phrase "trust but verify" comes to mind here. You weren't born yesterday OP. This will fester and eat at you if you don't make sure you have the truth.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Wonderer8 said:


> Sorry in advance for the long post…
> A little background, girlfriend and I have been together for 10 years and I’m about to propose to her. We are in our late 40s and consider each other as soulmates that unfortunately met later in life. She is a very caring individual and will help anyone to the point that I have to stop her a little. I don’t sky much, I am more of a snow shoe back country type of guy, she loves to sky and has been going to sky vacations for the past 3 years with 4 other girlfriends every year to a different location.
> Everything has been fine until this year, I was stroke with this gut feeling that something was wrong. After skying they all go to eat and bars, three of her friends are single and one that’s not single cheats on her boyfriend on this vacations. I do trust my girlfriend in every way.
> This time she told me that they met some guys and one of them was a big rancher that I will love to talk to because he had acres of land etc. I let her know about me being uneasy and my feelings, that I was feeling very uncomfortable and with anxiety. She reassured me that everything was respectful.
> ...


A person whose best friends are all cheaters is obviously way to comfortable with that way of behaving.


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you're sure she didn't cheat and everything else is going great with you two, I wouldn't break up over it. But you should let her know that it did bother you. People do have different boundaries. I mean there's nothing wrong with her friends doing what they want to if they're single. It comes down to whether you respect her enough to trust her to be able to take care of herself in situations like that or if you feel she is too influenced by other people and might do something just because of her friends doing it. I don't really know any grown women who are still walking off the cliff like lemmings with their friends so I would err on the side of respecting her judgment and ability to not go overboard.
> 
> But I wouldn't admit to her that it did give you a moment of panic and that you'd rather not to have those.


Thank you for your intelectual take on it, yes it’s clearly established that it bother me, I am very sure of myself and my self steam is pretty high. Maybe one of the reasons this took me by surprise


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

Asterix said:


> It's either that, or she didn't expect you to go through her phone.


Very unlikely, she knows I find everything and how cut throat I am, it’s just that it’s not cheating I’m concerned but behavior that was not wise


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Wonderer8 said:


> Thank you for your intelectual take on it, yes it’s clearly established that it bother me, I am very sure of myself and my self steam is pretty high. Maybe one of the reasons this took me by surprise


It would give anyone pause and make them want more information.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you're sure she didn't cheat and everything else is going great with you two, I wouldn't break up over it. But you should let her know that it did bother you. People do have different boundaries. I mean there's nothing wrong with her friends doing what they want to if they're single. It comes down to whether you respect her enough to trust her to be able to take care of herself in situations like that or if you feel she is too influenced by other people and might do something just because of her friends doing it. I don't really know any grown women who are still walking off the cliff like lemmings with their friends so I would err on the side of respecting her judgment and ability to not go overboard.
> 
> But I wouldn't admit to her that it did give you a moment of panic and that you'd rather not to have those.





DownByTheRiver said:


> I can see why you'd be uncomfortable. But at 40 years old she's old enough to make her own decisions and choices and handle herself how she chooses. It's not like she's some young naive thing putting herself in peril. It was sounds like a few women and one guy maybe. I wouldn't expect her to be giving up her friends after you marry so you better decide what you can live with now before you marry her. This was their vacation adventure. *I seriously doubt she slept with anyone although I would almost assure you that one of the other ladies would have if they had the opportunity.* If this is way off and left field morally for you, then she's not the right person for you to marry.. you'd be fighting about it in no time.


Illogical.

Nobody, especially 2 women on a trip far away, would invite a strange man to sleepover on their hotel room except for one reason. Either one or both ladies had great sex with him. Considering he has OP’s almost- fiancee’s phone number and is continuing fishing for more action, I’d say she was culpable.

For anyone to be so naive that they invited this guy to spend the night for any reason other than sex is just plain sad.

OP, you should break up with your GF, if only because she is a lunatic/idiot to be inviting possible Ted Bundy-like guys that she doesn’t even know, over for sleepovers. When she’s on vacation. With. Single. Women. That you know are loose. Sorry to tell you, you don’t have a keeper. And what you now know— tip of the iceberg.

Lastly, a good woman doesn’t involve herself in things that give even the appearance of impropriety.

proceed with a proposal at your own risk.


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> I don't know why your two are still dating at 10 years out but it looks to me like she might be disconnecting and looking to get out.
> 
> Does she know you are about to propose? Or is she sitting there thinking I've spent 10 years and nothing. I'd like someone I can grow old with. Resentment breeds looking around and wondering what if.
> 
> ...


Very understandable that it looks that way, we have not married because of me. I am still married because I refuse to pay child support to a person that refuses to work. She understands that, we are not married because of economical reasons that will put a strain on my mental capacity. Child about to be 18 the reason why the proposal at this stage.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Wonderer8 said:


> Very understandable that it looks that way, we have not married because of me. I am still married because I refuse to pay child support to a person that refuses to work. She understands that, we are not married because of economical reasons that will put a strain on my mental capacity. Child about to be 18 the reason why the proposal at this stage.


Sounds reasonable but feelings aren’t always reasonable. Again does she know you are proposing? Not to belabor the point but my MIL was engaged for 15 years to keep collecting alimony but she was engaged.

side point by waiting to divorce for 10+ years you have probably given your wife higher alimony claim.

Either way if she knows then red flags and if not still red flag


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wonderer8 said:


> Very understandable that it looks that way, we have not married because of me. I am still married because I refuse to pay child support to a person that refuses to work. She understands that, we are not married because of economical reasons that will put a strain on my mental capacity. Child about to be 18 the reason why the proposal at this stage.


So you have never paid anything towards the costs of bringing up your child? You have been living with your girlfriend for 10 years while still married?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Illogical.
> 
> Nobody, especially 2 women on a trip far away, would invite a strange man to sleepover on their hotel room except for one reason. Either one or both ladies had great sex with him. Considering he has OP’s almost- fiancee’s phone number and is continuing fishing for more action, I’d say she was culpable.
> 
> ...


🤣


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

The fact that she is good friends with a cheater and this cheater does her thing on these trips is all I would need to know. I'd cut bait and find someone new. If the woman I'm dating hangs out with trash, she is going to pick up that stench eventually.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> 🤣


Do you invite ranchers over for sleepovers when you’re on vacation Riv?
Just asking for further entertainment purposes. 😉


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Birds of a feather. So this dude that she invited to their hotel room was there for her. There probably was another guy fir the other women. Your gut was telling you something wasn’t right. She went anyway. Knowing that you were suspicious, she couldn’t help herself and invited a dude back to the hotel. 

Did they hook up? I certainly wouldn’t trust her after she left out that detail this dude was in the room. Then the guy is texting her too. How stupid does she think you are. The gut is rarely wrong.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Do you invite ranchers over for sleepovers when you’re on vacation Riv?
> Just asking for further entertainment purposes. 😉


Only one way to find out, Cowboy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Lol. Giddy up


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Your girl got ****ed down by a rancher and trucker.

This is why you don't allow or tolerate girls nights out or girls trips.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

thunderchad said:


> Your girl got ****ed down by a rancher and trucker.
> 
> This is why you don't allow or tolerate girls nights out or girls trips.


Certainly didn’t turn out to well fit old bf at home for one of the others huh? But OP’s, HIS gf, “she’d never do that”…..
SMH. Birds of a feather flock together, no doubt.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Is OPs current wife in the US? Because I smell Bs if she is. For at least 10 years you haven't paid child support because "she refuses to work". So your child is just SOL? And even though you've been separated for at least a decade, she couldn't go to court to get child support?
OP and his GF deserve each other.


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> So you have never paid anything towards the costs of bringing up your child? You have been living with your girlfriend for 10 years while still married?


Let’s keep it professional towards the question my daughter will flip if she sees your comment. I said not to pay my ex, my daughter has everything in life and then some


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

I don't think you can be mad at your girlfriend for cheating on you when you have a wife!


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Wonderer8 said:


> Very understandable that it looks that way, we have not married because of me. I am still married because I refuse to pay child support to a person that refuses to work. She understands that, we are not married because of economical reasons that will put a strain on my mental capacity. Child about to be 18 the reason why the proposal at this stage.


So you're living with your wife or your girlfriend? If your wife hasn't filed for child support you must still be living with her, in which case you have no business getting funny about your gf's trip.



thunderchad said:


> This is why you don't allow or tolerate girls nights out or girls trips.


No partner can allow or disallow the other to do anything, they're partners not parents.

Meanwhile, when I go away with my gf's, we play boardgames, picnic on the beach, talk, either get take away or go to the pub for dinner but that's it. I clearly need to get out more


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Wonderer8 said:


> When I confronted her about it she told me she has no idea how the guy got her number that probably one of her friends gave it to her.


And yet SHE RESPONDED to him by sending HIM a tiktok vid? If she was so surprised about it, then why did she respond and NOT tell you about it? She knows she was doing something shady that you would not like....


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

I stopped reading. this is a drunken party girl ffff fest. that's all.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wonderer8 said:


> Let’s keep it professional towards the question my daughter will flip if she sees your comment. I said not to pay my ex, my daughter has everything in life and then some


You said you didn't pay child support not spousal support.


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## Davit Bek (Sep 9, 2021)

Wonderer8 said:


> Very unlikely, she knows I find everything and how cut throat I am, it’s just that it’s not cheating I’m concerned but behavior that was not wise


There are countless examples of betrayed spouses absolutely shocked that a woman they thought they know well cheated. I'd say it happens more often to those with poor boundaries, and trusting partners. While some cheat with a plan and complete premeditation, there are many cases that it is the result of smaller boundaries being crossed and all of a sudden that person finds themselves having crossed a big red line. 

Being without your partner, drinking, close proximity to men who are certainly interested and surrounded by other women who're either cheating or being promiscuous? I'd say it's unlikely that the only boundary your girlfriend crossed is the one you know about. Arrange a polygraph test without telling her, and then let her know that's where you're headed in the parking lot. You're likely to get your answers.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

So your "girlfriend" and her married friend.....the cheater...... shared a hotel room and brought a guy in to "sleep on the couch"? 

OK.

One question, how do you know the married friend is a cheater? 

Trust your gut. Your gut is not telling you your girlfriend is trustworthy and nothing happened.


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

manwithnoname said:


> So your "girlfriend" and her married friend.....the cheater...... shared a hotel room and brought a guy in to "sleep on the couch"?
> 
> OK.
> 
> ...


2 single girls and 1 with a boyfriend went to hotels. A married one and my girlfriend went back to the apartment where all the girls are staying with the guy they met. This marry one does not cheat the one that cheats is the kne with the boyfriend, I know because my girlfriend told me in shock that she was doing that.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Either way the other person deserves to be someone's first choice and be excited to be with them.


This


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> A person whose best friends are all cheaters is obviously way to comfortable with that way of behaving.


human nature is such that if a bunch of your friends are cheating, telling you stories about how great the sex is, planning cheating vacations, and goading you on....Many people will succumb to that and cheat themselves. 

It might be some night when you are all partying, you get tipsie, there is dancing with the opposite sex at some nightclub, somehow some of them are invited back to the hotel room for more "partying", and then the peer pressure to just do it really kicks in. 

You really do not want to be putting yourself into such situations....


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

frusdil said:


> So you're living with your wife or your girlfriend? If your wife hasn't filed for child support you must still be living with her, in which case you have no business getting funny about your gf's trip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jello Shots at the pub are a good start!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

manwithnoname said:


> One question, how do you know the married friend is a cheater?


Come on, Man!
His wife told him so. She could not possibly lie!


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Wonderer8 said:


> 2 single girls and 1 with a boyfriend went to hotels. A married one and my girlfriend went back to the apartment where all the girls are staying with the guy they met. This marry one does not cheat the one that cheats is the kne with the boyfriend, I know because my girlfriend told me in shock that she was doing that.


That guy was there for your girlfriend. Was her married friend in the room the whole night or did Your wife have the room to herself until 4 am? Then she claims to not know how he got her number? Dude starts texting her and she responds with a video? 

Are you really buying any of this? Please tell us you’re not still considering marrying this woman. A late 40s woman hanging out like she’s some college girl on a Cancun vacation is not wife material. She’s like a Girls Gone Wild graduate, who still wants to occasionally live like she’a still 20.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

@jsmart has a good point. i did not realize she is just your GF.

you are learning more about her personality by all this. this is who she is. Do you still want to keep dating her? a decision gate is rapidly approaching.

be careful, do not get this GF pregnant, or your decision will have been made for you unintentionally.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

I love how dudes post their case, and the moment you start telling them like it is, the buts, and justifications start to fly. So funny. 

I wonder why they even bother. They should just bury their head in the sand and forget all about it.

Take this dude (OP), he for sure knows that one of women cheated on her boyfriend; do you think this OP would have at least the decency to let the poor sucker boyfriend know?
Of course not, he can't and won't.
He's too busy second guessing himself and making excuses for his girlfriend. Good luck with what's coming once he marries her.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Wonderer8 said:


> 2 single girls and 1 with a boyfriend went to hotels. A married one and my girlfriend went back to the apartment where all the girls are staying with the guy they met. This marry one does not cheat the one that cheats is the kne with the boyfriend, I know because my girlfriend told me in shock that she was doing that.


Tell the boy friend. The GF will probably throw your wife under the bus and let you know she was the 2nd F in the FMF threesome.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

OP, what if the shoe was on the other foot? Let's say you like to go on vacations with 4 male friends. 3 of whom are single and one is a married adulterer. would your girlfriend be ok with the same scenario she has presented to you?That being ,inviting a stranger of the opposite sex to share your room for the night?


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> I love how dudes post their case, and the moment you start telling them like it is, the buts, and justifications start to fly. So funny.
> 
> I wonder why they even bother. They should just bury their head in the sand and forget all about it.
> 
> ...


I don’t tell the boyfriend because he does the same when she leaves.
I understand that after 6 years as a dude in a marriage forum has help you a lot. I’m new here give me at least another 6 years to acquire your same knowledge.
But if every person and relationship was the same and every person will act the same then therapist will be free and not $200 an hour.


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

Tested_by_stress said:


> OP, what if the shoe was on the other foot? Let's say you like to go on vacations with 4 male friends. 3 of whom are single and one is a married adulterer. would your girlfriend be ok with the same scenario she has presented up you?That being ,inviting a stranger of the opposite sex to share your room for the night?


Good point, I asked her that question and she replied that she knows our relationship and she will trust me 100% not to do anything. That being said next year I’m traveling SOLO


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Wonderer8 said:


> she will trust me 100% not to do anything.


By "not to do anything" means not doing what she did?
Cos, it´s not needed to have sex with another as the scenario as told was IMO enough.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Your call dude. I have better things to do than spend my life with a woman who thinks nothing about lying to me while letting strange men spend the night in her room and then keep in touch with him.

Are you really that desperate?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Wonderer8 said:


> I’m new here give me at least another 6 years to acquire your same knowledge.


OP I think the main point here to make is that many of the experienced people here are suggesting that you may not be seeing the full picture of your relationship.

It's hard to be sure of that from an internet forum, we only have your descriptions of things to go on. But there is experience from lots of other people who have posted similar situations, plus our own personal situations which, unfortunately, brought us here the same as you.

My advice to you is to not be too fast to discount others advice. 
Take off any love-blinders you have on, listen to everything, and consider it truthfully. You can throw out and ignore anything that doesn't apply.

I agree with most that if this was my GF acting like this, I would consider it disrespectful, lying, and not something I want in my life going forward. She could change to your satisfaction but only time will tell if that is genuine. There are many stories on here that start like "My wife of xx years cheated before we were married. I wish I had known then..."

Just be sure.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

You're still married because you don't want to pay child support?

How is your wife allowing that?

I thought I was talking to someone who resembled me at least a little.

You probably have the girlfriend you deserve.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Wonderer8 said:


> Good point, I asked her that question and she replied that she knows our relationship and she will trust me 100% not to do anything. That being said next year I’m traveling SOLO


That is a complete BS. If the tables were turned, she would be adamant that you not go. That’s the issue we have today. Women are not afraid to throw down the gauntlet on what she will not tolerate and are willing to blow up a relationship, if it’s a long term marriage with kids. But men, have become so feminized with nice guyitis. How you have not put pressure on her to limit contact with those friends is beyond me. That is not a good circle of friends for any wife/live in girlfriend to have. 

Before the hardcore feminist start getting bent out of shape, I would expect the same thing from a woman if her guy was pulling that BS. but let’s be real. There is way more of the GNO going on than BNO. Guys will go fishing/hunting, golfing, watch a game at a sports bar, or have a guy’s poker night in a friend’s man cave while way to many married mothers want to go out clubbing or bar hopping dressed like they’re on the prowl.


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> You're still married because you don't want to pay child support?
> 
> How is your wife allowing that?
> 
> ...





ConanHub said:


> You're still married because you don't want to pay child support?
> 
> How is your wife allowing that?
> 
> ...


projecting much?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> You're still married because you don't want to pay child support?
> 
> How is your wife allowing that?
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't get this. 

Isn't OP going to have to pay spousal support when he gets divorced? Sounds like he's trying to beat the system but that could have other ramifications.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Wonderer8 said:


> projecting much?


How is his comment projecting?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Livvie said:


> How is his comment projecting?


I'm done feeding this squirrel.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Wonderer8 said:


> projecting much?


Actually it is not a projection for that poster. AT ALL.

I noticed before when someone brought it up you brushed it off saying your daughter has all she needs. Well child support covers partial rent and food for the child. I'm guessing you buy clothes and presents and such and then feel good and also look like the hero to your child. But don't actually pay for the nitty gritty cause you are worried your wife might benefit too. 

I don't know what state you are in but usually the longer you are married the more in alimony and longer you have to pay. I'm not sure you did yourself any favors by staying married.

You are showing some of your own character though too. It ain't pretty.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> I'm done feeding this squirrel.


He already sort of explained the situation:


Wonderer8 said:


> Let’s keep it professional towards the question my daughter will flip if she sees your comment. I said not to pay my ex, my daughter has everything in life and then some


supposedly He's refusing to support a lazy woman that refuses to work.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Rob_1 said:


> He already sort of explained the situation:
> 
> supposedly He's refusing to support a lazy woman that refuses to work.


yes except I've seen this 'Hero' Dad they don't support their children's basic needs like rent. But they swoop in and take them to Disney. So they spend money on the children but they aren't really supporting them.

Flip it around it also means instead of biting the bullet and divorcing over ten years ago (I mean he's been with this woman 10 years so if he wasn't cheating then he knew over 10years ago) he is staying married to be 'vindicitive'? He's allowed this one woman his wife to control his ability to get remarried? again not pretty. Man of action type thing.

Do you think his income has reduce in 10 years. If she doesn't work he will have to pay alimony and now it will be longer and more expensive. I just can't fathom a situation where this was actually beneficial. He didn't want to pay child support.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> He already sort of explained the situation:
> 
> supposedly He's refusing to support a lazy woman that refuses to work.


I'll answer you but I'm done with him.

I don't care what his excuse is, he is still married to get out of child support.

I got nothing for him. He lives amongst the branches so to speak and if his daughter sees his thread that just confirms all the more how much I do not have anything in common with this guy.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Wonderer8 said:


> I don’t tell the boyfriend because he does the same when she leaves.
> I understand that after 6 years as a dude in a marriage forum has help you a lot. I’m new here give me at least another 6 years to acquire your same knowledge.
> But if every person and relationship was the same and every person will act the same then therapist will be free and not $200 an hour.


In that case they deserve each other.

Having said that, it might seem to you like you are being attacked (and you are). The thread is veering towards not your OP but your supposed treatment of your wife and child; neither has anything to do with your OP, but you did not explained yourself clear from the get go, and now you have the hounds after you.

Normally, depending on what feedback I get from the OP that's how I respond, and in your case, what I'm reading between the lines is that you have not firm and secure boundaries in your relationship. FYI. I'm not here because a woman did something to me, not at all. I'm here to help people men and women that seem to lack perspective, experience, self worth in themselves. Some people give a type of advice, others some other type of advice, but when we see that we are not getting through them, the 2x4 comes out in order to see if that will get the OP sufficient shock to wake up.

Men that have self worth, self respect, and dignity, do not stop to wonder if what their partner is doing is kosher. You should instantly know what your boundaries are and immediately act to make clear to the partner that the boundaries are being crossed, and there is not discussion about it. She either accepts them or its over. Not need to get anyone's opinion. That's confidence in yourself and what you want and are not afraid to demand them and fear the response. This is where you seem to be lacking. Your girlfriend seems OK morally with what her pack is doing and condoning, so what can you expect eventually to happen in one of her outings with her pack of friends?


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## Wonderer8 (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Actually it is not a projection for that poster. AT ALL.
> 
> I noticed before when someone brought it up you brushed it off saying your daughter has all she needs. Well child support covers partial rent and food for the child. I'm guessing you buy clothes and presents and such and then feel good and also look like the hero to your child. But don't actually pay for the nitty gritty cause you are worried your wife might benefit too.
> 
> ...


You love this topic but my daughter leaves with me. This is a topic for maybe another forum I was just stating why I’m not divorced


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

these forums can be pretty brutal to an OP.

but take all the responses, even the rude ones, and consider them. If you are still thinking of marrying this GF, or being her partner for a long while, just go into it with your eyes wide open.

Some of this might be just that you two have not discussed boundaries in your relationship yet. Maybe she has different ideas on it than you do.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> these forums can be pretty brutal to an OP.
> 
> but take all the responses, even the rude ones, and consider them. If you are still thinking of marrying this GF, or being her partner for a long while, just go into it with your eyes wide open.
> 
> Some of this might be just that you two have not discussed boundaries in your relationship yet. Maybe she has different ideas on it than you do.


That's the truth because everyone pretty much agrees there are many red flags going on here right? Doesn't really matter where the flags are coming from.

I am not trying to bash him so much as point out he has character flaws too that may have gotten his girlfriend to think the marriage isn't ever going to happen and start trying to monkey branch to the next guy.

To be clear here OP monkey branching is wrong. She is showing signs of not really being connected to you. You have also shown signs of not really being connect to her.

If you two aren't connected maybe not make it more permanent.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Anastasia6 said:


> That's the truth because everyone pretty much agrees there are many red flags going on here right? Doesn't really matter where the flags are coming from.
> 
> I am not trying to bash him so much as point out he has character flaws too that may have gotten his girlfriend to think the marriage isn't ever going to happen and start trying to monkey branch to the next guy.
> 
> ...


Yea Ana, I have to co-sign on to your last few post. I definitely agree with your points on OP not laying out his deal breakers, not paying child support for his daughter for 10 years is COMPLETELY unacceptable, and I too question if he truly loves this woman. If after 2 years of living together, you’re not interested in wifeing her up, then she’s not the one. Your love for her would override your desire to avoid paying child support. 

Actually, I’m surprised she has stayed with him for this long. If he’s that way with the mother of his kid, why would she expect him to marry her and be a good husband?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

jsmart said:


> Your love for her would override your desire to avoid paying child support.


OP already stated that the child lives with him.



Wonderer8 said:


> ou love this topic but my daughter leaves with me


But he said "leaves" when he meant lives. In other words, HE DOESN'T has to pay child support. Since he hasn't say a word as to why he refuses to give money to his wife other than she refuses to work, I can only assume that he was not willing to support a woman that wants to be taken care of for nothing. Going by the fact that his daughter lives with him says a lot about the situation (s) that led to leave his wife and not willing to support her. But we are not here for that. We are here for the question he posed:



Wonderer8 said:


> Am I making something that’s not there?
> I do trust her but deep down inside I feel that something went wrong with this trip.


I feel we are veering off the topic here. Which OP could explain or start another thread on that.

Nonetheless, if what the OP is saying is factual: that his daughter lives with him and is properly being taken care of, and that he did not divorce his wife in order to not support a woman that thinks that she doesn't have to work, and that the soon to be husband had to take care of her, then what's the problem? How many of you want to support a woman that refuses to work, and thinks that she's entitled to be taken care of without her doing nothing? If all this is true, then I would take his stance toward the wife also. Screw that, that I have to support a woman that is nothing to my anymore and all she wants is a free ride at my cost.

Unless those facts are not true and OP is deceiving us, then I would agree with what you guys are saying as to how his behavior is a factor as to what's going on with the question at hand.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Wonderer8 said:


> I don’t tell the boyfriend because he does the same when she leaves.
> I understand that after 6 years as a dude in a marriage forum has help you a lot. I’m new here give me at least another 6 years to acquire your same knowledge.
> But if every person and relationship was the same and every person will act the same then therapist will be free and not $200 an hour.


BF and your GF's female friend both are serial cheaters?

do they have an open marriage?

Sounds like excellent pals to be hanging around with your GF. None of that could possibly rub off onto her.....

Oh! Wait!


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Classic case where a guy thinks his girl is the only "good one" out of the bunch.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Famous last words before discovery of total infidelity:
“She’s not like that”.
“She’d never do that”
“She doesn’t have time to do that”
“She said he was gay, ugly, fat, nerdy, etc”

I like how she pretended to be in shock that her friend was cheating. OP, you’ve got yourself a two faced partner bro.
She deserves an Oscar for her latest acting job…. 
She knows “the girls” and what they do. That’s why she likes them so much. They’re fun.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> Come on, Man!
> His wife told him so. She could not possibly lie!


I pictured Biden saying this. But it makes too much sense to have come out of Biden's mouth, except for the first part.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Wonderer8 said:


> 2 single girls and 1 with a boyfriend went to hotels. A married one and my girlfriend went back to the apartment where all the girls are staying with the guy they met. This marry one does not cheat the one that cheats is the kne with the boyfriend, I know because my girlfriend told me in shock that she was doing that.


Ok, now getting back to your girlfriend. She pretended to be in shock, because she's like that too, and wants you to believe she's not like that. But she has proven she's like that. She knows you didn't like the guy texting you, lied about not knowing how he got her number, and then corresponds with him? 

Yeah, she's a catch.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Al_Bundy said:


> Classic case where a guy thinks his girl is the only "good one" out of the bunch.


Your spouse’s friends is a good indicator of his or her loyalty. If I were hanging with single guys and also had a couple married dudes who were hooking up with women , my wife would be right to veto me going on a vacation to Vegas/Cancun/other hot spot. I could run the usual line of it’s just going to be the guys but my wife would rightfully smell the BS a mile away. 

The same goes for this guy. His gut was screaming at him but he suppressed it and offered up a meager protest to her plans. He probably soothed himself with the usual bromides that BHs tell themselves. No, she’s religious, conservative, low drive, self conscious of her body, hates cheaters, etc but these so called types are usually the most wanton when they do betray. No vanilla sex for OM, he gets to experience her inner who...


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> Famous last words before discovery of total infidelity:
> “She’s not like that”.
> “She’d never do that”
> “She doesn’t have time to do that”
> ...


I agree with you completely and I would add one more thing. 
She’s having an affair with a married man who is not interested in getting divorced. In other words she’s his side piece and owes him all the commitment that he’s shown her.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

OP, you can't be this naive... 

When the girls were still all together, hunting for men, they were all (including your GF) talking about which guys at the bar were attractive and how excited they were about them paying attention to them etc. You know that was happening. Rancher was buying your GF drink after drink and she was batting her eyes at him.

The fact that she repeatedly puts herself in these scenarios is very telling.

The fact that she omitted the damning parts of the story to you is telling.

The cheater friend of hers tells everyone its ok because her BF does it to her, complete Bull **** if you believe that stuff. Call the cheated on BF and tell him what happened.

Think hard about what is really going on with your GF, because I can tell you right now that you have your head in the sand. I get that sometimes it is hard to see when you are in the middle of it, but we see it all the time, she fits the mold exactly.

She has toxic cheating friends, she intentionally goes on girls only trips with them, fully knowing what will happen. She is getting caught up in it because she has the same mentality. Her friends talk about lying and covering their tracks all the time, hec she's probably talking to them now about how to pull the wool over your eyes about Mr. Rancher.

Time to wake up.... your GF is deceiving you about her interactions with other males.... and you are defending her good character.... c'mon.

Also, if your marriage is over, you should divorce. You are not setting a good example for your kids carrying on like you are.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

not specific to this OP's post....
but it seems a lot of cuckolds come to TAM looking for permission to let their wives go cheat on them.
i wonder why they come here? Do they like the abuse they get here?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Talker67 said:


> not specific to this OP's post....
> but it seems a lot of cuckolds come to TAM looking for permission to let their wives go cheat on them.
> i wonder why they come here? Do they like the abuse they get here?


Probably more of looking for verification that it’s ok and it’s really not what they were thinking upfront.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Dating and premarital relationships are like toilet paper. You are either on a roll or dealing with a chitty azzhole. 

You my friend have a lady who is running around on you.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Dating and premarital relationships are like toilet paper


Some are, some do not.
And for an instant I got tempted to extend the analogy, another side of it, to also some marriages.


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