# Yes, I can.



## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I would like to announce that I have decided to R with my ex wife, and would like to close my "Could you reconcile" thread, accordingly. In this new thread, I would like to get posters perspectives, just the same as the old thread, but I want all of you to know that I would NOT be in at this good place if not for the advice and friendship you have shown me. THANK YOU!!!
We will NOT be re-marrying for now, and there are still lots of issues we must face, but I would also like to say how proud I am of my ex wife and all of the work she has done and heartache she has endured this past two and a half years, to make this moment possible. I never thought it would happen and was fully prepared to live my life without her, but she has shown what a completely remorseful and transparent attitude can do. My ex wife is completely in love with me . I believe this is true.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

congrats, I am happy for you

honest question for you- since you divorced and spent time away from her and dating others and time spent healing, do you think that triggers and the like will not be as bad as those who R without D get?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

I think its really commendable that you followed through with the divorce and that she continued to show through her actions that she is indeed remorseful. I feel you'll have successful reconciliation. Best of luck.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Could see it comin' from a mile away. Good decision IMO 
You both win


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Good luck in your new journey! Look forward to reading your updates.

Q: are you going to start with a clean slate going forward? By this I mean: Your history is past. You made the strong move of divorcing, thus ending and closing that chapter of your life. And your wife has done a lot of work to repair herself and the damage she caused. Do you move forward with the trust of a brand new relationship? I am interested in the role of total forgiveness (if you have done this) in R and in getting to a position to R. Thanks for sharing and good luck!


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Wow, I love hearing good news stories! Can you send the link to your original thread?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

familyfirst09 said:


> Wow, I love hearing good news stories! Can you send the link to your original thread?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/61712-could-you-reconcile.html


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Good to hear one day at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> congrats, I am happy for you
> 
> honest question for you- since you divorced and spent time away from her and dating others and time spent healing, do you think that triggers and the like will not be as bad as those who R without D get?


I really don't know, AR. I can only speak from my own situation, and have found that some of the usual stuff doesn't seem to phase me, but some of the unusual things get me down. But I have to credit her for being proactive and disarming some of the more obvious. She has worked really hard and has basically gone to the wall to prove that her words were spoken in anger and never ment to show her true feelings for me sexually, so I don't have the "mind Movies", that some others have. When you add to this, my "ahem", activities, of tha past two years it seems to take the edge off a lot of issues, so maybe so.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Good luck in your new journey! Look forward to reading your updates.
> 
> Q: are you going to start with a clean slate going forward? By this I mean: Your history is past. You made the strong move of divorcing, thus ending and closing that chapter of your life. And your wife has done a lot of work to repair herself and the damage she caused. Do you move forward with the trust of a brand new relationship? I am interested in the role of total forgiveness (if you have done this) in R and in getting to a position to R. Thanks for sharing and good luck!


Cedarman, as far as complete forgiveness goes, I haven't got that far yet. I think I said in another post that I llok at forgiveness as a goal, like renewed trust. Both are free gifts but both have to be earned by actions, without any sense of entitlement.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

BTW, this is one of the best signs , so far, that we CAN make it. She has absolutely no feelings of entitlement at all. She treats every moment with me as precious, and expects nothing from me , except human respect. When I compliment her, it's like giving her the Oscar. She blossoms.


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

Good for you!

I think you handled all of this in a well thought out manner. I have more adjectives to give in the last sentence, but not now, I don't want to let it go to your head.

Jokes aside, I think you have enough experience and have shown enough maturity to make a positive impact in someone else's life on this forum. With all due respect, I suggest you now focus on the folks here who need help. 

Of course I would love to keep hearing more on your own progress, but, I am convinced you two will do well and am looking forward to hearing that as time flies by!

Best of luck.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Cedarman, as far as complete forgiveness goes, I haven't got that far yet. I think I said in another post that I llok at forgiveness as a goal, like renewed trust. Both are free gifts but both have to be earned by actions, without any sense of entitlement.



Thanks. I have a feeling that things will work out, because you are both working so hard. I think I get why you're getting back together. Even though your marriage ended in divorce - you have both dealt with the cause. That leaves you ahead of, eg - a brand new relationship with new partners, because you still have the good memories and you both know each other so well already. You know each other's faults - but more importantly you know each other's potential and good points. 

I have to be honest and say that I envy you that your wife is working so hard. 5% of me is still holding out hope that my stbxw will have a moment of introspection and work on herself and show some remorse. But right now, we're headed to divorce (In Canada it takes 12 months - we are 3 months in at this point).

Yours is a great story - again - best wishes.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Thaks, but she has done a huge amount to give me the desire to try to make R work . I simply have a keen sense of my own boundaries, and a lot of luck.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Rookie congratulations.

I think the way you handled everything was unbelievably spot on. The only reason you will be able to reconcile successfully with your WW will be because you handled everything perfectly.

You were definitely not a push over and made your own demands clear from the start and did not budge an inch. I think you will have a successfull R. 

I hope you stay around and help other men who have been cheated on.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> Thanks. I have a feeling that things will work out, because you are both working so hard. I think I get why you're getting back together. Even though your marriage ended in divorce - you have both dealt with the cause. That leaves you ahead of, eg - a brand new relationship with new partners, because you still have the good memories and you both know each other so well already. You know each other's faults - but more importantly you know each other's potential and good points.
> 
> I have to be honest and say that I envy you that your wife is working so hard. 5% of me is still holding out hope that my stbxw will have a moment of introspection and work on herself and show some remorse. But right now, we're headed to divorce (In Canada it takes 12 months - we are 3 months in at this point).
> 
> Yours is a great story - again - best wishes.


Cedarman, It CAN happen. Look at me, we are 2 1/2 years from the affair, 1 year past divorce, and we are smooching like teenagers and f**king like bunnies. LOL If it can happen to us, it can happen to anybody.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

The reason I believe that this has more chance of working out is because your wife had nothing more to lose when you divorced her. Real backs to the wall scenario and she did fight for it. I think R will only ever work out when the WS wants it more than the BS.

And, sadly, people hardly recognize the value of something or someone unless they are in a position where they can lose them forever. And its also probably the only time that a BS can know with a bit of certaintiy that they are indeed a priority and not just another option on the table which probably makes the decision to reconcile easier.IMHO


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Summer4744 said:


> Rookie congratulations.
> 
> I think the way you handled everything was unbelievably spot on. The only reason you will be able to reconcile successfully with your WW will be because you handled everything perfectly.
> 
> ...


I've never done anything perfect in my life, except my kids.


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

Very, very happy for you and your XW, Rookie. Though she is more than just that now -what acronym should we give her?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I can't tell you, because it describes a certain part of her anatomy. So lets just call her my Sweetie.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Congratulations.
Really pleased to hear your good news.
Wishing you lots of luck
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Ok, I'm just going to say duh. Of course you are! This announcement is a little anti climactic.

I'm just kidding rookie. I knew this was coming. She has earned it and so have you by the way you both have handled this unfortunate stuation and come out stronger and wiser people. I want you to know that I truly wish you and your "sweetie" many years of happiness and joy. Just one question....have you told her and if so how did you tell her and what was her reaction? If you don't have pictures at least describe it in detail.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Congrats - I'm very hopeful for you both.

(I wish Tears had stayed around to see this...)


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

I'm reading your thread now, haven't gotten all the way through it yet. Does your "sweetie" have any advice for the rest of us BS?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Maybe "BS" isn't the right word, sorry. I guess I'm just wondering what SHE has done to want to reconcile with her. My situation is similar (no cheating), I was the one who screwed up but now want R but H doesn't. Its complicated and confusing. Maybe I should get through your thread 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

What can I say Rookie?
Someone told It was a little anticlimatic because they saw it coming. I know it's not. Even our circunstances are compeltely different I get this as real milestone, the switch on has a huge significance. 

I'm happy for you. And for your Sweetie too!

ETA
And I can hear from here the wispers from your children. Extra bonus as you sound so happy, man...


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> I would like to announce that I have decided to R with my ex wife, and would like to close my "Could you reconcile" thread, accordingly. In this new thread, I would like to get posters perspectives, just the same as the old thread, but I want all of you to know that I would NOT be in at this good place if not for the advice and friendship you have shown me. THANK YOU!!!
> We will NOT be re-marrying for now, and there are still lots of issues we must face, but I would also like to say how proud I am of my ex wife and all of the work she has done and heartache she has endured this past two and a half years, to make this moment possible. I never thought it would happen and was fully prepared to live my life without her, but she has shown what a completely remorseful and transparent attitude can do. My ex wife is completely in love with me . I believe this is true.


Wow it takes a big man to R good luck and hope all works out for the best.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> And, sadly, people hardly recognize the value of something or someone unless they are in a position where they can lose them forever. And its also probably the only time that a BS can know with a bit of certaintiy that they are indeed a priority and not just another option on the table which probably makes the decision to reconcile easier.IMHO


"Ya don't know whatcha got, til it's gone"

Heh.

Congrats Rookie. The _*decision*_ to reconcile is half the battle.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Happy tears, happy tears, are falling for you and your (whatever it is that you are calling her these days!) Infidelity is horrible and there is never a justification for it. The way your ex-wife worked to redeem herself, for herself, with no realistic hope of reconciling with you is the closest thing to proof that a BS could ever possibly hope for that taking the risk to love that person, again, is indeed worth the risk. Too Pollyanna for ya, Rook? I'm so, so, so happy for both of you! 

Like I said to you, once before, "Well played Rookie, well played!" 

~EI


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I wish you and your family the very best life has to offer.

WD


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I fully realize that we have a long row to hoe, but it's a start, right? She is on cloud nine. She said that she will prove to her dying day , what she CAN be, not what she was. I think that summs it up pretty nicely. I want our relationship to be the best possible, not the pits like it was 2 years ago. On a more practical note: she now weighs 125 lbs, and it looks great on her. I'm back to my HS football weight of 195 and it's all muscle. First time I've seen a six pack that didn't hold beer, in about a year. At least we haven't been idle. LOL


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> She said that she will prove to her dying day , what she CAN be, not what she was.


I love this! What an awesome quote. I may steal it from her! :smthumbup:


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## DarkHoly (Dec 18, 2012)

Best of luck. You're definitely going to need it.


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## Leuven (Oct 1, 2012)

Congrats to you both! Wish you all the best, love and a real home for you and the kids!

Gives some of us the hope ...


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Leuven said:


> Congrats to you both! Wish you all the best, love and a real home for you and the kids!
> 
> Gives some of us the hope ...


Thanks, Leuven, but like I said before, she has done the Lions share of the work. What I've done has been mostly self-protection and Adaptability.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Can I ask a question (I'm still reading your old post as I have time, I'm up to page 16, the part where she told you she was meant to be in your arms, very touching). 
During the year you spent apart and W was working on herself, what kind of contact did she have with you? Did she back off and give your space or did she write letters, emails, etc? We read a lot on here about "180s" and I'm wondering if she did that. Did she get herself better for YOU or for herself? I hope that makes sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> The reason I believe that this has more chance of working out is because your wife had nothing more to lose when you divorced her.


Divorce had nothing to do with it. Because I have seen WW's do everything as his WW did to fight their way back right on dday without getting divorced.

Not saying he was wrong to go through the divorce. Though I saying once his WW went NC with her OM they could of wound up right where they are now.

He has a very beautiful wife. She did not have to go back to him out of fearing that she could not get a new man.

She wanted back because that is where she wanted to be. She wanted her BH above all else. Yes she had a moment of temporay insanity. That past and she woke up.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

familyfirst09 said:


> Can I ask a question (I'm still reading your old post as I have time, I'm up to page 16, the part where she told you she was meant to be in your arms, very touching).
> During the year you spent apart and W was working on herself, what kind of contact did she have with you? Did she back off and give your space or did she write letters, emails, etc? We read a lot on here about "180s" and I'm wondering if she did that. Did she get herself better for YOU or for herself? I hope that makes sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Prior to the divorce being final, I kept contact to a bare minimum. She wanted to try to reconcile, from the first, but I was against it and confined most contact to the necessary negotiations between lawyers. We did co-parenting with our youngest, but otherwise, we each dealt with the older kids as adults. After the divorce, I deliberately focused on re-building my life separate from her and contact was again sporadic. She has , ALWAYS, wanted more contact, but I have only been receptive in the last 4 or 5 months.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

theroad said:


> Divorce had nothing to do with it. Because I have seen WW's do everything as his WW did to fight their way back right on dday without getting divorced.
> 
> Not saying he was wrong to go through the divorce. Though I saying once his WW went NC with her OM they could of wound up right where they are now.
> 
> ...


Bjornfree, The Road is right. If you go to the reconciliation thread you will find numerous WS's who are truly remorseful and working hard to recocile. EI, CSS, and others are good role-models for the WS. He's also right in that my ex wife can get just about any man she wants, but she hasn't even dated or looked at another man. Makes me feel a whole lot better.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

How do you know she always wanted more contact? Did she ever say/send anything to you directly? What about cards? Gifts? What started making you become more receptive to her over the past few months?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

She always sent cards and presents on special days. Even when I didn't return the favor. I was told how much she had improved herself, and frankly , I missed her a lot.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You missed the new and improved her. 

I am glad her hard work and your hard work on improving yourselves as individuals has allowed you two to Reconcile.

And be who you are. The guy that steered his wife into a restaurant that had a bad memeory for her.

You reclaimed it for both of you.

Never let those bad memories for her or you win Rookie!


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm determined not to, Happyman. Sure there are going to be serious issues and triggers but it would be an admission of failure to allow them to stop the progress we have made.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

One of the issues that all of us BS's face is renewal of trust. We talk about it a lot, but exactly what all can the WS do to regain it?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> One of the issues that all of us BS's face is renewal of trust. We talk about it a lot, but exactly what all can the WS do to regain it?


I found that time and honest talk helped. Don't think I will ever get back the naive trust we had in the very early days, but that's inevitable.

Like you, I have a partner who did a lot of heavy lifting to demonstrate remorse.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Wazza, I've been to a lot of infidelity websites and most of them talk about things like "transparency", openess and accountability. I would like to get some practical suggestions on how these things are accomplished in day-to-day life.
My Sweetie does things like call me when she gets to work and when she gets off, tells me beforhand if she is going to be late from work, and doesn't have OSF's. But I'm sure that there are other ideas that other WS's have done that help to rebuild their BS's trust and comfort level.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Wazza, I've been to a lot of infidelity websites and most of them talk about things like "transparency", openess and accountability. I would like to get some practical suggestions on how these things are accomplished in day-to-day life.
> My Sweetie does things like call me when she gets to work and when she gets off, tells me beforhand if she is going to be late from work, and doesn't have OSF's. But I'm sure that there are other ideas that other WS's have done that help to rebuild their BS's trust and comfort level.


After my Ws A I spied on her.

I dropped in on her at work. Installed software on her phone. Planted bugs and cameras. I had to know what her bahavior was when no one was watching. It was the only way I could know R was "real". 

For you the standard may be higher or lower.


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## familyfirst09 (Dec 6, 2012)

Sometimes the WS can make all the effort in the world and the BS is just to angry to forgive or forget, regardless of all the good memories and history, family and children. Esp when the BS has a new lover involved. 
Good for you by not letting your anger and hurt win.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Wazza, I've been to a lot of infidelity websites and most of them talk about things like "transparency", openess and accountability. I would like to get some practical suggestions on how these things are accomplished in day-to-day life.
> My Sweetie does things like call me when she gets to work and when she gets off, tells me beforhand if she is going to be late from work, and doesn't have OSF's. But I'm sure that there are other ideas that other WS's have done that help to rebuild their BS's trust and comfort level.


As far as accountability, I think she's already demonstrated that in spades. Openess is simply leaving her phone unlocked and available to see, leaving her browser window open and not having any passwords that you don't know, not deleting the history on any electronic devices. I think I read a poster that said he and his wife would sit down and check each others info once a week, go over the phone bill together, etc. If she is already telling you where she is and what she's doing periodically it sounds like you already have much of that already. It may just be that she is already so dedicated to you she has already thought of everything. She already did the work for you.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Wazza, I've been to a lot of infidelity websites and most of them talk about things like "transparency", openess and accountability. I would like to get some practical suggestions on how these things are accomplished in day-to-day life.
> My Sweetie does things like call me when she gets to work and when she gets off, tells me beforhand if she is going to be late from work, and doesn't have OSF's. But I'm sure that there are other ideas that other WS's have done that help to rebuild their BS's trust and comfort level.


I'll give you an example. I had an appointment with my hairdresser yesterday afternoon. I have gone to the same lady for almost 25 years. She had become a close friend of our family. In fact, she used to cut B1's hair, as well.... when he still had hair (he shaves his head, now.) She, also, gave each of our children their first haircuts. Buuuuuuut, *completely unbeknownst* to her, she had become my alibi, on many occasions, when I was seeing the xOM. 

I would hate to have to change hairdressers because I am very particular about my hair and, again, she's been doing it for many, many years, and I adore her. She did not knowingly participate in covering up my infidelity. In fact, she didn't know about it at all. She simply knew that I had been unhappy in my marriage for quite some time. I did meet her, occasionally, for drinks and appetizers, but not every week. I was afraid that having her continue to do my hair might be too big of a trigger for B1. Almost weekly, I would get ready and say "I'm going out with S*&^^%." But, not once has B1 even hinted that I should not continue having her do my hair. 

I'm truly not very high maintenance.... most of our money is spent on our home, utilities and our childrens' needs. My hair is my biggest "luxury" expense. One of the things that I have done (and he never asked me to) for B1 in order to ease his fears and insecurities is to take pictures of myself when I am out without him or the kids and then text them to him. Not to trips like the grocery, because obviously, I bring home groceries, but when I do things that are more personal or things just involving me. That last time I saw my hairdresser (since D-Day) our daughter went with me and got her hair done, too. But, yesterday, it was just me. I took a picture of the clock on the wall when I got there, I took a picture of me in her chair before and after getting my hair done.... just enough to set his mind at ease. He didn't ask. I don't want him to have to. I wish that he never had to worry or think about it, again.

I had dinner with another girlfriend a couple of months ago. She and I have been friends since the 7th grade. She, too, was once an unknowing alibi. Several times while she and I were eating dinner I took pictures of me, pictures of her, pictures of us together, pictures of us in the restaurant. It was at a Frisch's, not a bar or even a bar and grill..... just a diner. But, I wanted B1 to feel comfortable and secure and I was genuinely grateful that he was gracious enough to allow me to go without any attempt to make me feel guilty or uncomfortable. He had every right to be concerned and cautious based on 15 months of being lied to and deceived by me. He simply kissed me and told me to enjoy myself and...... nothing.... not one unkind word. So, when the pictures starting arriving on his phone shortly, thereafter, he said that he was pleasantly surprised.... and yes, relieved, too. That's is what I want to do for him.

I want to be proactive about helping him recover and heal. I don't avoid "talking" about things when he asks. In fact, when I sense that he's struggling, and I KNOW because the sound of his breathing changes, I ask him to talk to me..... I ask him what's on his mind. Do I love taking about it? NO...., I hate it, I hate the way it makes me feel about myself, I hate knowing how much pain he's in because of it. But, ignoring it doesn't make it go away. I want to answer his questions. I want to demystify his fears. I answer his questions honestly and, sometimes, that's hard for both of us. But, I know that it's the only real path to healing for him..... and for me. I can't undo what I've done. Neither of us can undo the hurtful things that we did to one another in our marriage prior to my affair. But, he and I have been stripped down to the core. We have bared our hearts, minds, bodies and souls to one another in the last 7 1/2 months..... and we have chosen to believe that a future together will be more beautiful, fulfilling and rewarding than a future without one another.

I think this only works for us because it is what we both want. If a betrayed spouse has to beg for or demand this type of transparency with a defiant or unwilling WS then there is no point. I do think that if a WS receives the gift of a second chance, the gift of reconciliation, the gift of trust, the gift of love by their BS (especially my BS) then they should want to give their BS whatever reassurances they possibly can. I don't want for B1 to have to ask me to help him. I want to ask him how I can help him. I have an amazing husband..... But, I'm not going to lie........ prior to my affair, he took a very long (emotional) hiatus during our marriage, so long that I was convinced that he wasn't ever going to return. He even told me that he was defeated and that life had worn him down.... he told me to accept our miserable lot in life. I told him that I would not accept that. I asked him to come with me. I truly wanted him to lead us out of the oppression that had enveloped our lives. He couldn't, at that time, depression and low Testosterone prevented him from having the drive and the motivation to overcome his own obstacles..... and I couldn't live that way any longer. I did ask, beg, plead, demand and finally threaten that he work with me on our marriage and on the sad, sorry state that our lives were in. I told him that I couldn't bear the loneliness and isolation any longer. I'm only sharing this because (well, this isn't our thread and some of you reading this may not know our story.) I still don't have all of the answers... and that haunts me everyday. I hope that one day I will find forgiveness for myself..... I haven't, yet. Our story is, perhaps, a bit different.... but, I think everyone thinks their story is different. It's different because on D-Day, B1 is the one who changed, he is the one who fought for us, I was already gone, emotionally and physically, I had checked out more than a year before. He was so withdrawn from the world around him that he hadn't really noticed..... He hadn't been concerned/aware that I had slept on the couch for over a year, or that we hadn't made love in over a year, or that I hadn't nagged him about us not making love, or that I hadn't nagged him about anything....... MEN, when your wives stop complaining, that is not a sign that everything is okay!!! It's a sign that they've given up. I'm sharing this because although I wish I could tell you what he could have done to prevent this or what I should have done to prevent this, I still don't have all of the answers. I think about it everyday. Our marriage was FUBAR. The only thing I know for sure is that I should not have had an affair. It wasn't the answer. It was like throwing gasoline on a fire. I know that when I did it, I never thought that I would be living with my husband as man and wife, again. I never thought that I'd have to explain my actions, my choices, my lies, my deceit, my betrayal. I KNEW that my marriage was over....... But, it wasn't.... and here we are. Not having the right answer is no justification for doing the wrong thing.

Take care,
~EI


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

EI, this is precisely what Sweetie is doing for me. I mean , sh*t, we aren't even living together.........yet, and she lets me know where she is and what she does and who she does it with, 24/7. This has been going on since I expressed my interest in R. I never asked for any of it, never demanded an accounting, but she gives me anything I could ever want to know, of her own free will.
2 years ago, she showed me what she was capable of. Betrayal, dishonesty, disrespect and cruelty. 2 years later and she again is showing me what she is capable of. Love, kindness, respect, loyalty, desire, and honesty. Al in the same 5'6", 125 lb. package. Is it any wonder that I'm slowly going insane. LMAO!!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> EI, this is precisely what Sweetie is doing for me. I mean , sh*t, we aren't even living together.........yet, and she lets me know where she is and what she does and who she does it with, 24/7. This has been going on since I expressed my interest in R. I never asked for any of it, never demanded an accounting, but she gives me anything I could ever want to know, of her own free will.
> 2 years ago, she showed me what she was capable of. Betrayal, dishonesty, disrespect and cruelty. 2 years later and she again is showing me what she is capable of. Love, kindness, respect, loyalty, desire, and honesty. Al in the same 5'6", 125 lb. package. Is it any wonder that I'm slowly going insane. LMAO!!


Good to hear Rookie there is a happy ending once in a while


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> EI, this is precisely what Sweetie is doing for me. I mean , sh*t, we aren't even living together.........yet, and she lets me know where she is and what she does and who she does it with, 24/7. This has been going on since I expressed my interest in R. I never asked for any of it, never demanded an accounting, but she gives me anything I could ever want to know, of her own free will.
> 2 years ago, she showed me what she was capable of. Betrayal, dishonesty, disrespect and cruelty. 2 years later and she again is showing me what she is capable of. Love, kindness, respect, loyalty, desire, and honesty. Al in the same 5'6", 125 lb. package. Is it any wonder that I'm slowly going insane. LMAO!!


That kind of insanity should be bottled. Sounds like she's already doing everything. Wow rookie, you might just have to sit back and enjoy the ride. Can you handle it?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bfree said:


> That kind of insanity should be bottled. Sounds like she's already doing everything. Wow rookie, you might just have to sit back and enjoy the ride. Can you handle it?


There are pills for that for those "extra inning" games


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Wazza, I've been to a lot of infidelity websites and most of them talk about things like "transparency", openess and accountability. I would like to get some practical suggestions on how these things are accomplished in day-to-day life.
> My Sweetie does things like call me when she gets to work and when she gets off, tells me beforhand if she is going to be late from work, and doesn't have OSF's. But I'm sure that there are other ideas that other WS's have done that help to rebuild their BS's trust and comfort level.


My take is, we don't have any agreed rules, because as soon she knows what I am checking she knows what she has to do to avoid those checks. For example, if she knows I check her phone records, burner phone. 

So I have some checks I do, but don't talk about, related to things I observed during the last affair, and the sorts of ideas that come up here.

I don't ask her to check in, we don't forbid opposite sex friends for each other (though we talk if a friendship makes us uncomfortable). Both of us are in jobs where being late from work is going to happen sometimes.

My wife knows I originally stayed for the kids, and the kids are now adults. And we talk about this stuff a lot more. She knows that while I believe in marriage for life, every major life decision I take considrs the scenario where we choose to divorce. She understands that if she chooses to have another affair, I regard it as choosing to divorce.

The ball is in her court. She will be honest or we will part, but I will not live like a parole officer. But I know her and I can usually pick when she lies.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

EI said:


> I'll give you an example. I had an appointment with my hairdresser yesterday afternoon. I have gone to the same lady for almost 25 years. She had become a close friend of our family. In fact, she used to cut B1's hair, as well.... when he still had hair (he shaves his head, now.) She, also, gave each of our children their first haircuts. Buuuuuuut, *completely unbeknownst* to her, she had become my alibi, on many occasions, when I was seeing the xOM.
> 
> I would hate to have to change hairdressers because I am very particular about my hair and, again, she's been doing it for many, many years, and I adore her. She did not knowingly participate in covering up my infidelity. In fact, she didn't know about it at all. She simply knew that I had been unhappy in my marriage for quite some time. I did meet her, occasionally, for drinks and appetizers, but not every week. I was afraid that having her continue to do my hair might be too big of a trigger for B1. Almost weekly, I would get ready and say "I'm going out with S*&^^%." But, not once has B1 even hinted that I should not continue having her do my hair.
> 
> ...


Hi EI. Long time no speak.

It is good you do those things for him, but turn it around. If you resumed your affair (and I know you won't, this is hypothetical) couldn't you do all this and still conceal things from him?

How much is B1 comfortable because of these things you do, and how much does he just see that the whole relationship is different?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

My guess is she has been reading "affair recovery" material. Ask her.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

it seems counter-intuitive but spy until you are "bored"

I believe that by using a keylogger and VAR it helped in regaining trust when I saw her actions matched what she said repeatedly.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> it seems counter-intuitive but spy until you are "bored"
> 
> I believe that by using a keylogger and VAR it helped in regaining trust when I saw her actions matched what she said repeatedly.


I guess that is why I don't feel the need for spying, because she is so transparent, that it isn't an issue.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By WAZZA*
> The ball is in her court. She will be honest or we will part, but I will not live like a parole officer. But I know her and I can usually pick when she lies.



I am with WAZZA on this one

I just continued to work on me getting better. That had many advantages for me; one was that I got in the position that I could be fine with or without her. However, I loved it when the scales tipped to being with her.

Your wife is walking the walk like a mature woman and desires you like a teenager. You have the best of both girl and woman.

Is your wife Debbie Boone? You know the woman that sang that song “You Light up My Life”

*I can picture Rookie drinking a cold beer and having that contented grin from ear to ear*


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> I am with WAZZA on this one
> 
> I just continued to work on me getting better. That had many advantages for me; one was that I got in the position that I could be fine with or without her. However, I loved it when the scales tipped to being with her.
> 
> ...


 I remember that song, but my Sweetie is wayyyy better looking than Debbie Boone, more like a young Linda Ronstadt, before she packed on the lbs. A cold Yuengling Lager always tastes good.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> I remember that song, but my Sweetie is wayyyy better looking than Debbie Boone, more like a young Linda Ronstadt, before she packed on the lbs. A cold Yuengling Lager always tastes good.


Oooooooooo.

If my wife were not so incredibly attractive I would be jealous.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Rookie4 said:


> I guess that is why I don't feel the need for spying, because she is so transparent, that it isn't an issue.



mine was as well, but nonetheless I had to quell the paranoia. Due to the time apart and the D you may not go through that.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Oooooooooo.
> 
> If my wife were not so incredibly attractive I would be jealous.


Don't be looking over the fence, Wazza, you've got enough to handle right there at home> LOL


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> mine was as well, but nonetheless I had to quell the paranoia. Due to the time apart and the D you may not go through that.


I agree, AR. I read other BS's posts and their anxiety and trust issues are a major part of the R equation. My situation is very different . I know from others and she has proven herself in so many ways and for over 2 years, that I'm not nearly as worried about it.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> I agree, AR. I read other BS's posts and their anxiety and trust issues are a major part of the R equation. My situation is very different . I know from others and she has proven herself in so many ways and for over 2 years, that I'm not nearly as worried about it.


I worry occasionally. Not all that often.

While I "liked" AR's post, my methods are less extreme than VARs or key loggers. But yes, I keep half an eye open.


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## loveisforever (Jun 21, 2012)

In your posts, your ex seems like a perfect wife for you now. It is amazing how your opinion has changed over the last 2 years. Yes, you can. It is your choice and your life. Good luck!

I would say that you do not really need the help here. It seems like that you knew what you would do before you even started your first post. You just need us to validate your thinking and be proud of yourself. 

We should support you in any choices you might make. It comes down to your choice, anyway. All we know is what you want to tell us. So, as long as she is perfect for you for now, we are happy with your happiness.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Wazza said:


> I worry occasionally. Not all that often.
> 
> While I "liked" AR's post, my methods are less extreme than VARs or key loggers. But yes, I keep half an eye open.


My ex put me through hell and left me a broken man. It took a long time before I could even see women in a positive light. I'm now married to a different women but I still had trust issues even though it made no sense. Thankfully I think I've worked through those now but its tough to put it all behind you. I'm so glad rookie's ex is the woman she is today. She's definitely a keeper.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

bfree said:


> My ex put me through hell and left me a broken man. It took a long time before I could even see women in a positive light. I'm now married to a different women but I still had trust issues even though it made no sense. Thankfully I think I've worked through those now but its tough to put it all behind you. I'm so glad rookie's ex is the woman she is today. She's definitely a keeper.


If you ever get. It 100% behind you you are a better man than me.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Loveisforever, we are, neither one of us, perfect. She still has temper issues (not as bad or as obsessive) but definitely manageable and she is improving almost daily. My trust issues are still there and they will be around a while, but they too are fading. We are two fallable people trying to come together and reclaim our love. that's about all we can speak for , right now.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

bfree said:


> My ex put me through hell and left me a broken man. It took a long time before I could even see women in a positive light. I'm now married to a different women but I still had trust issues even though it made no sense. Thankfully I think I've worked through those now but its tough to put it all behind you. I'm so glad rookie's ex is the woman she is today. She's definitely a keeper.


Bfree, she definitely is a keeper, but then again, so am I. LOL


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Wazza said:


> If you ever get. It 100% behind you you are a better man than me.


100% trust is unrealistic, Wazza. I never trusted completely even before the affair so how could I do so after?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Wazza said:


> If you ever get. It 100% behind you you are a better man than me.


First of all I'm not a better man that you although my wife would probably say I am (she should say that right?) I just got to a point where I realized I didn't have to actually forgive my ex. She wasn't remorseful or contrite and didn't want my forgiveness. So I simply got to a point of acceptance. And by that I mean complete acceptance. I accepted my own shortcomings and that although I didn't deserve what she did I could have been a better and stronger man. I accepted that she is who she is and although I didn't see it at the time her good qualities (fun, exciting, high energy) also disqualified her from being a good candidate for a LTR. Most of all I accepted that I cannot control the actions or thoughts of anyone but myself and that my life will go the way I make it go and I will have the best possible life I can because that's what I want.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Loveisforever, we are, neither one of us, perfect. She still has temper issues (not as bad or as obsessive) but definitely manageable and she is improving almost daily. My trust issues are still there and they will be around a while, but they too are fading. We are two fallable people trying to come together and reclaim our love. that's about all we can speak for , right now.


It will be interesting Rookie if your exw temper evens out with you back in her life.

It sounds like she has made some good improvements.

Let us know over time your observations if you don't mind.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

WOW. Retread your original posts and if anything looked hopeless yours did. Happy for you. Hope it works. Take it slow.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Wazza said:


> If you ever get. It 100% behind you you are a better man than me.


Wazza, I don't think that getting it 100% behind you would make you a better man. Since you have joined TAM, you have given countless BS's and WS's so much wise and thoughtful counsel. What you say matters, it makes a difference for all of us because you have talked the talk while walking the walk. You've created a new marriage with your former wayward wife and have successfully (by all accounts) enjoyed over 20 years of reconciliation. That makes your opinions, ideas, thoughts, suggestions and beliefs carry a lot more weight than some who have more recently begun their long journeys into reconciliation. I know that your words and long term success have given me so much hope and encouragement for the future. They have also given me some insight as to what I might expect and how I can better help B1 going forward. 

You have consistently defended your choices with a passion, on TAM, while respectfully debating them with those who would disagree with you. You have refused to back down from certain TAM bullies, all while never losing your cool. I think that you have successfully demonstrated that a nice _balance_ of Alpha male and Beta male qualities make for a well rounded man. Which is, perhaps, the reason for your long term success in your marriage after infidelity. 

I know that you still have struggles in your marriage..... every marriage (especially long term marriages and, in particular, any marriage affected by infidelity) has challenges and struggles. I'm not sure that anyone can ever truly get infidelity 100% behind them. It's just too big to put it completely behind you. But so are many other things in life. Marriages all have their share of the "worse, sickness, and poorer" times. What you have done, and done very well, is to take your lemons and made lemonade and you have chosen to share that "lemonade" with those of us, here on TAM, who are much further behind you in this journey. Had you been able to put this 100% behind you, then the rest of us here may not have been the recipients of your valuable input.

I didn't mean for this to be so long (yeah, right ) and I hope that my buddy, Rookie, will forgive me for the thread jack.

~EI


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Wazza, just let me say that I think you are totally full of sh*t. And I wish that I was the same way. Everything EI said goes double for me. I might not agree with you, all of the time, but your posts make me think that Sweetie and I have a better than fair chance of overcoming this crap and I always value your input.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> WOW. Retread your original posts and if anything looked hopeless yours did. Happy for you. Hope it works. Take it slow.


Weightlifter, we are taking it as it comes. Thanks for the words of encouragement.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Just wanted to add to what I said last.

I spied heavily on my wife after the A. I needed to know if it was a real R, or if she was just taking it underground. 

After awhile I was able to stop, but to some degree I had to force myself to stop. I need to be able to trust my wife. She may not be deserving, but I can't function if I have to watch her every move. I just can't see a M lasting if trust can never be regained. It was only possible for me to stop spying because she did the heavy lifting, showed remorse, etc. If she didn't do all of that I would not have been able to stop looking.

My wife and I are having a successful R, and it's good that things went the way they did. Right now my wife is in ICU with a serious infection. I can't imagine dealing with this and being as supportive as I need to be if I was still dealing with the conflicting emotions the A brought about. 

You should do what you need to do to prove the R is real in your eyes, but at some point you will need to force yourself to act with trust even if you don't think she is deserving. Only after you are living like you trust her and she maintains the trust by acting faithfully will you be able to move forward.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

I should add I'm not talking about 100% trust. One thing I've learned from this is that 100% trust is a mistake in any marriage. If I had always had some part reserved for the possablity of an A the A never would have had room to grow.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Ovid said:


> After awhile I was able to stop, but to some degree I had to force myself to stop. I need to be able to trust my wife.


You know this is more important than I sometimes think we want to admit. In my case I divorced my ex because she wasn;t remorseful And I spied on my current wife because I still had trust issues from my first marriage. My wife had done absolutely nothing to deserve me checking up on her. Nothing of hers was ever hidden, no passowrds I didn;t know, no strange calls or texts, no strange items on the bills. Nothing. I finally realized I had to put my first marriage away for good. It was a choice. I had to force myself to do it. Even now I'll get the idea to check up on my wife and I have to push the thoughts out of my head. Being betrayed sucks if only because it can change you in so many ways. Sometimes it makes you stronger but then there's things like this that really don't help you move on at all.

(Btw, my wife knew I was checking up on her and never said a word. She said she had nothing to hide and if it made me feel better then she didn't have a problem with it. God I love that woman.)


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Personally forcing myself to take the final step to act with trust was the hardest part of R, but without it I'd probably still trigger at the drop of a hat.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I think that having already divorced my wife make it easier to trust her, now. She knows what the consequences are for any deceit. Plus she has gone to the wall proving herself and has said that this will be a part of any relationship we have. She is in it 100%


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

When a freshly BS come here we (TAM, books, MCs...) provide a road map; NC, transparence, disclosure, snooping, watching actions, what remorse looks like, not? 180... there's a task, solid plans. Very good is you are a fixer, goals oriented.
You don't have any road map towards R. It's a little more playing by ear, being in touch with emotions, identifying them, acting on them.
My take is focus in forgiveness (your task) and building a romantic, intimate, solid boundarie defined relationship as a team, separate task.


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

The number of sucessful reconciliations is (necessarily) fewer than the number of betrayals. So there's less information available.

One of teh things I like about this, and the reconcilliation thread, is that it can form part of the standard works on how reconcilliations CAN work. 

What we need now is more information, and more successes...


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Rags said:


> The number of sucessful reconciliations is (necessarily) fewer than the number of betrayals. So there's less information available.
> 
> One of teh things I like about this, and the reconcilliation thread, is that it can form part of the standard works on how reconcilliations CAN work.
> 
> What we need now is more information, and more successes...


One of the key components that make these threads so valuable is that some WS's have had the courage to come here and post. Their insights and contributions are critical to helping ALL of us.


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