# 10th Anniversary trip and my wife wants to go to strip club?



## Jay375

So coming at this from a very confused point. Currently on our 10th Anniversary vacation in Las Vegas. My wife and I are headed for separation eventually after and we’ve known that. We’ve had some times during our marriage where we didn’t treat each other well, there has been some emotional and verbal abuse on both sides. We’re both committed to working on our marriage — she says she’ll never give up and hopes I won’t either — but we’ve decided we aren’t going to heal under the same roof. We will continue couples therapy and weekly get together. So we’re planning on looking at apartments upon our return. 

We haven’t had sex or been intimate in 3 months. She said the emotional connection is entirely gone, trust has been completely stripped away, and she has no interest. She wants to build that back, but is honest that she feels like it may never come back. She said physical intimacy is important to her, but it isn’t a dealbreaker for marriage. She’s very worried about me not having physical intimacy in my life and not sure she will ever feel ready to provide it again. Has said it’s a bigger deal to her that I have it than that she does. Told me last night that knowing I’d be open to the fact it might be with someone else in the future and not ever her again removes pressure from her, feeling like she’s hurting me or making life hard for me. She knows I’m 100% faithful, fully in love with her, and only want it to be with her. She said that just feels like crushing pressure to her, because she feels no emotional connection right now. 

So fast forward to today. My wife has said she’d like to go to a strip club together as a couple on our anniversary. Said she thinks it would be a fun experience and memory for us, but also seeing me with another women and being open to that actually makes her feel less pressure, feel like things will be ok one way or the other. I’m just so confused. On one hand, if this would be a good thing, I want to do it. On the other, I don’t want to damage our relationship even more than it is! I’d love the fantasy that we go to the strip club, have a great time, and end up being intimate after, but I think that’s 100% a fantasy. Deep down I wonder if this would be some type of closure for my wife, and she already feels like we’re done and there’s no chance of coming back. Sigh.


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## Andy1001

It’s a trick.


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## Jay375

Andy1001 said:


> It’s a trick.


What do you think the endgame is?


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## Loves Coffee

Jay375 said:


> We haven’t had sex or been intimate in *3 months*. She said the emotional connection is* entirely gone*, trust has been completely stripped away, and she has *no interest*. She wants to build that back, but is honest that she feels like it may *never come back*. She said physical intimacy is important to her, but it isn’t a dealbreaker for marriage. She’s very worried about me not having physical intimacy in my life and *not sure she will ever feel ready to provide it again*. Has said it’s a bigger deal to her that I have it than that she does. Told me last night that knowing I’d be open to the fact it *might be with someone else in the future* and not ever her again *removes pressure from her*, feeling like she’s hurting me or making life hard for me. She knows I’m 100% faithful, fully in love with her, and only want it to be with her. She said that just feels like* crushing pressure to her*, because she feels *no emotional connection* right now.


I don't know how you can write that paragraph and not walk away. She's done with you and just looking to set it up so maybe she can leave with the moral high ground so she's not seen as the one that couldn't work it out. Turn the tables on her. 

Don't under any circumstances celebrate an anniversary with a woman who won't have sex with you and wants to push you towards other women. Time to wake up.


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## Jay375

Loves Coffee said:


> I don't know how you can write that paragraph and not walk away. She's done with you and just looking to set it up so maybe she can leave with the moral high ground so she's not seen as the one that couldn't work it out. Turn the tables on her.
> 
> Don't under any circumstances celebrate an anniversary with a woman who won't have sex with you and wants to push you towards other women. Time to wake up.


The main reason is because we had two horrible years during Covid. Lots of damage was done and we’re trying to rebuild our marriage and trust. She also is a victim of sexual assault in her teen years and it’s had far-reaching consequences on our marriage. Our couples therapist has actually said we need to take physical intimacy off the table for now as we rebuild it in stages. So that’s the main reason. Just dealing with a lot of nuances.


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## Tdbo

She's done.
As for the strip club, it is just merely to put her own spin on it. Then she can say that you had sex with a stripper.
Either she wants to work through things or she doesn't. If she truly had the resolve, she either wouldn't be giving up trying to restore things, or else she would be honest and be working to carve up the carcass of your marriage amicably.
I agree with the above: Why the hell are you celebrating your anniversary?
Best to take the time and resources to do the work to really reconnect, or lay the foundation for each of you to go your own way.
I would take a hard pass on the strip club.


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## Loves Coffee

Jay375 said:


> The main reason is because we had two horrible years during Covid. Lots of damage was done and we’re trying to rebuild our marriage and trust. She also is a victim of sexual assault in her teen years and it’s had far-reaching consequences on our marriage. Our couples therapist has actually said we need to take physical intimacy off the table for now as we rebuild it in stages. So that’s the main reason. Just dealing with a lot of nuances.


If you're going to table sex then table anniversary celebrations as well. What happened in her teenage years has less bearings on her treatment towards you than what I bolded. She has no feelings for you. This is different than having feelings for you and something happened more than 10 years ago. You can't muddy the waters by combining the two.


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## Jay375

Again, I get I’m probably naive here. She deals with anxiety and says she can’t relax with me after what we’ve been through (we literally yelled and screamed at each other for the better part of two years). Therapist said she had mild PTSD from it. She really feels like the separation is the only way to heal herself and not have the involuntary stress reactions. But again, might just be BS to move things on. I’m also the sole provider, so clearly she’d struggle without my support.


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## Loves Coffee

You have to be prepared for the possibility (likelihood) that once she has separation that she's able to get over things pretty fast. Was she having stress reactions like this when you were first hooking up? How does then compare to now?


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## TexasMom1216

I think it sounds like a trick. She’s trying to get you to cheat. IMO.


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## Jay375

Loves Coffee said:


> You have to be prepared for the possibility (likelihood) that once she has separation that she's able to get over things pretty fast. Was she having stress reactions like this when you were first hooking up? How does then compare to now?


No, but she’s said that she never has trusted me for the majority of our marriage and has “submitted” herself to me sexually our whole marriage instead of really being emotionally connected and engaged. She’s been in therapy for 6 months and a lot of this has come out of that.


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## gameopoly5

Jay375 said:


> So coming at this from a very confused point. Currently on our 10th Anniversary vacation in Las Vegas. My wife and I are headed for separation eventually after and we’ve known that. We’ve had some times during our marriage where we didn’t treat each other well, there has been some emotional and verbal abuse on both sides. We’re both committed to working on our marriage — she says she’ll never give up and hopes I won’t either — but we’ve decided we aren’t going to heal under the same roof. We will continue couples therapy and weekly get together. So we’re planning on looking at apartments upon our return.
> 
> We haven’t had sex or been intimate in 3 months. She said the emotional connection is entirely gone, trust has been completely stripped away, and she has no interest. She wants to build that back, but is honest that she feels like it may never come back. She said physical intimacy is important to her, but it isn’t a dealbreaker for marriage. She’s very worried about me not having physical intimacy in my life and not sure she will ever feel ready to provide it again. Has said it’s a bigger deal to her that I have it than that she does. Told me last night that knowing I’d be open to the fact it might be with someone else in the future and not ever her again removes pressure from her, feeling like she’s hurting me or making life hard for me. She knows I’m 100% faithful, fully in love with her, and only want it to be with her. She said that just feels like crushing pressure to her, because she feels no emotional connection right now.
> 
> So fast forward to today. My wife has said she’d like to go to a strip club together as a couple on our anniversary. Said she thinks it would be a fun experience and memory for us, but also seeing me with another women and being open to that actually makes her feel less pressure, feel like things will be ok one way or the other. I’m just so confused. On one hand, if this would be a good thing, I want to do it. On the other, I don’t want to damage our relationship even more than it is! I’d love the fantasy that we go to the strip club, have a great time, and end up being intimate after, but I think that’s 100% a fantasy. Deep down I wonder if this would be some type of closure for my wife, and she already feels like we’re done and there’s no chance of coming back. Sigh.


Rarely do wives leave their husbands to be worse off. You should look into the possibility that your wife has a plan B someone else.
The strip club is some kind of peace offering from her, she`s trying to connect you back to single life and is in fact treating you like a sap. Don`t participate in her game.
Don`t settle for a separation, tell her we either get back together as husband and wife or divorce.
Let her file for divorce, not you otherwise if you file first she`ll use that against you in the divorce. Also, stay in your home, let her be the one to leave otherwise she`ll claim you deserted her and may even say you forced her to go to a strip club.
See a lawyer, explain everything and weigh up your most viable options of getting out of this.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Better spent going to Sandals, a couples resort in the islands.

The strip clubs a sh!t test, a trick.
Save your money. You'll need it for the separation and D.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Hey, go to local strip clubs four or five times, with her, just to shake out what's up. I'd do that.


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## Jay375

The state requires a 1 year separation before divorce, so regardless that would have to happen.


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## Anastasia6

Well I don't know if your marriage can be fixed. It sounds as if you two have destroyed the emotional bond. Many women don't want sex with people they feel disconnected from.

Why would she reconnect with someone she's been in yelling matches with? 
Who started these yelling matches? Doesn't really matter but either way these types of behaviors make most women feel unsafe.
So I don't know if she is truly concerned for you comfort and therefore is offering sex in the only way she's comfortable with (from another) or if it's a **** test. I do know it will never strengthen your marriage. So I wouldn't go to a strip club.

Most here will tell you to divorce if your wife isn't having sex with you. She probably knows that. So she's saying she can't provide you with what you want so it's ok to divorce. Thing is why would she reattach to someone who she's had such horrible experiences with in the last two years? Think about it. If you were dating someone and they yelled at you consistently for 2 years would you say "Hey this is the one for me? I love her!"? No you would not. If she has detached then you are basically dating again with t he hopes of falling back in love. EXCEPT this time around you and her are dating someone they've had a miserable 2 years with......

So chances are it aint' going to work. I'm sorry.

Why in the world was there so much yelling on either side?


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## Tdbo

Jay375 said:


> No, but she’s said that she never has trusted me for the majority of our marriage and has “submitted” herself to me sexually our whole marriage instead of really being emotionally connected and engaged. She’s been in therapy for 6 months and a lot of this has come out of that.


I think the best advice to give is not to trust someone who has never trusted you.
Unfortunately, you now need to look out for yourself.
Do not trust or play into her agenda. It could be to your own detriment.


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## gameopoly5

Jay375 said:


> The state requires a 1 year separation before divorce, so regardless that would have to happen.


I was a legal executive in the UK and have conducted many divorces.
Firstly, I advise you do not go on this 10th anniversary trip with her if she still insists that your marriage is done.
And definitely avoid going to any strip clubs because it`s likely she`s setting you up. What would happen if at the strip club your wife videos it, which can be used against you.
Sorry to say, your wife is discarding you and sadly you have to consider her your worse enemy and not to trust her in anyways whatsoever.
Discretely scutanise who she talks to, who she is texting, where she goes and who with. Check out her online activities and cell phone if possible, any evidence of cheating grab it to use against her in the divorce.
Ask her calmly and politely why she wants a separation and record it on your phone.
Avoid having any sexual contact and sleep in separate rooms.
Be prepared for the bombs she`s going to drop on you soon and ensure you have ammunition to defend yourself and in the meantime don`t do anything foolish that your wife can use against you.
Trust me on this one, I speak from experience.


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## DallasCowboyFan

Tabling sex when trying to salvage a marriage is terrible advice. Yeah, I think it's done. Some couples become friends with benefits even after it is over. If the intimacy ends, the relationship is dead if either party needs it. Most men need it and she knows you need it. She is punishing you, in my eyes.


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## *Deidre*

Hmm. My guess is she may have cheated on you already, or there may be a guy in the background now, and this will alleviate her guilt. If there’s no emotional connection with you and sex has stopped, seeing you with a stripper doesn’t magically make her feel better because she’s not having sex with you.

I could be wrong, but I’d at least consider that as a possibility. And she’s not going to tell you that. So she looks so open and honest by telling you she wants to alleviate the pressure and give you what you want. Which is insulting, if you think about it. Your wife thinks that a random stripper is all you need, that it will serve as a replacement for the intimacy she isn’t providing.

I’d spend some time doing a little digging to see if there may be someone else in the background.


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## DudeInProgress

Jay375 said:


> Again, I get I’m probably naive here. She deals with anxiety and says she can’t relax with me after what we’ve been through (we literally yelled and screamed at each other for the better part of two years). Therapist said she had mild PTSD from it. She really feels like the separation is the only way to heal herself and not have the involuntary stress reactions. But again, might just be BS to move things on. I’m also the sole provider, so clearly she’d struggle without my support.


Yes, you’re being naïve, wake up.
You need to take control of your situation immediately and not let your wife dictate the terms of your marriage and eventual divorce - because that’s where it’s going.

DO NOT allow a separation, period. 
A separation is only a way to:

ease into a divorce at her convenience, 
and/or
try out another man/men. Do not allow a separation. She can work on her issues at home, as your wife. You can give her some space without a separation. 
She’s either your wife or she’s not. Do not tolerate anything in between. 
If she insists she needs a separation to figure things out, YOU file for divorce immediately - because that is what she is choosing. She just wants to do it at her convenience. 
If she insists on a separation, she is choosing to no longer be your wife, you need to respond accordingly. 
You need to act immediately in your own best interest.
And if your therapist supports the idea of a separation, they are counterproductive and you need to find a new therapist.

As for the strip club thing, don’t do it. It’s a stupid complication that she will use (consciously or not) to continue detaching from you.

You also need to set your marriage expectations with her right now. 
Tell her that marriage is a sexual relationship and that you’re not willing to live in a sexless marriage. And you’re not interested in having an open marriage. So your intent is to rebuild a fulfilling sexual marriage, and if she’s not on board with that objective, there’s no point.


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## SunCMars

She is a _walk away wife_ who feels guilty and cannot find her shoes.
She wants to let go of you as gently as possible.

This desire of hers to jointly go to a strip club is a *red herring.*
Who knows what her real motive is?
I see it as irrational.
Do not go.

For ships and giggles I will list some possible reasons for the strip club visit.


1) She _does want_ you to get interested in other women by seeing them wiggle-waggle, naked.
She even stated that. 
Believe her.

2) She wants to gauge your reaction when she views you looking at them. 
This will allow her to label you a horn dog, and then to reasonably hate you.
Has she ever caught you viewing porn?

3) It is an immature, silly idea of hers.

4) It will be ladies that will be stripping and strutting their stuff.
Might she be getting that lesbian itch?

5) This is TAM, so, she may have another man lined up.
The separation will allow her to test drive him.



The real reason is_ likely_ that *she is done* with your marriage.
Painful time will tell.


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## SunCMars

The fact that *she wants to go* to a strip club shows that her sex drive is active.

This is a clue, a hot tip-off, that something else is nakedly on her mind.


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## In Absentia

I think it's a very convoluted way to say she wants to stay married to you but with no sex...


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## umbluu

I am sorry, but where is it written that the wife suggested OP to have sex with someone else at that strip club? It was written that she proposed it as some kind of fun shared experience and OP believed that it might lead to some intimacy between him and his wife afterwards...
But indeed, this suggestion is very strange in the situation where people are considering separation, they both feel hurt and the wife cannot (for emotional reasons) have sex with her husband. But maybe it is indeed an attempt at improving things. Can you (OP author) discuss the motivations behind this offer with your wife in a reasonable manner (meaning noone explodes or implodes and you can trust her answers)?


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## Mr.Married

If you don’t immediately go for a divorce then you are a complete naïve idiot blinded by a fool of a therapist and a woman smart enough to keep you on the financial hook even though you don’t even live together.

Just stick a rusty fork in your eye because that would be as intelligent as the rest of your decisions.

Wake up …… seriously 😳


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## Loves Coffee

umbluu said:


> I am sorry, but where is it written that the wife suggested OP to have sex with someone else at that strip club? It was written that she proposed it as some kind of fun shared experience and OP believed that it might lead to some intimacy between him and his wife afterwards...
> But indeed, this suggestion is very strange in the situation where people are considering separation, they both feel hurt and the wife cannot (for emotional reasons) have sex with her husband. But maybe it is indeed an attempt at improving things. Can you (OP author) discuss the motivations behind this offer with your wife in a reasonable manner (meaning noone explodes or implodes and you can trust her answers)?


When OP states his wife said going to the strip club is to take pressure off of her, what do you suppose she meant?


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## umbluu

Perhaps we should ask the OP what he thinks she meant, and if he is not sure, he should ask her...


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## Anastasia6

umbluu said:


> Perhaps we should ask the OP what he thinks she meant, and if he is not sure, he should ask her...


I am not even saying she's proposing sex at the club.... But that is the next step isn't it. I don't want to have sex with you so someone else can. Prostitution is actually legal in Nevada.


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## TexasMom1216

Anastasia6 said:


> I am not even saying she's proposing sex at the club.... But that is the next step isn't it. I don't want to have sex with you so someone else can. Prostitution is actually legal in Nevada.


We know about the sex in the Champagne Room.  😎I think she's trying to get him to be with someone else. Either so he can't say he isn't getting sex and can keep supporting her, or to push the divorce along. Or even worse, to get him to be with someone else so she can pin the whole divorce on him.

The idea that this is some fun trip to rekindle romance is a porno fantasy. Nothing sexy at all about being ignored and unfavorably compared to younger, prettier women. 😂


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## TravlRN

Jay375 said:


> So coming at this from a very confused point. Currently on our 10th Anniversary vacation in Las Vegas. My wife and I are headed for separation eventually after and we’ve known that. We’ve had some times during our marriage where we didn’t treat each other well, there has been some emotional and verbal abuse on both sides. We’re both committed to working on our marriage — she says she’ll never give up and hopes I won’t either — but we’ve decided we aren’t going to heal under the same roof. We will continue couples therapy and weekly get together. So we’re planning on looking at apartments upon our return.
> 
> We haven’t had sex or been intimate in 3 months. She said the emotional connection is entirely gone, trust has been completely stripped away, and she has no interest. She wants to build that back, but is honest that she feels like it may never come back. She said physical intimacy is important to her, but it isn’t a dealbreaker for marriage. She’s very worried about me not having physical intimacy in my life and not sure she will ever feel ready to provide it again. Has said it’s a bigger deal to her that I have it than that she does. Told me last night that knowing I’d be open to the fact it might be with someone else in the future and not ever her again removes pressure from her, feeling like she’s hurting me or making life hard for me. She knows I’m 100% faithful, fully in love with her, and only want it to be with her. She said that just feels like crushing pressure to her, because she feels no emotional connection right now.
> 
> So fast forward to today. My wife has said she’d like to go to a strip club together as a couple on our anniversary. Said she thinks it would be a fun experience and memory for us, but also seeing me with another women and being open to that actually makes her feel less pressure, feel like things will be ok one way or the other. I’m just so confused. On one hand, if this would be a good thing, I want to do it. On the other, I don’t want to damage our relationship even more than it is! I’d love the fantasy that we go to the strip club, have a great time, and end up being intimate after, but I think that’s 100% a fantasy. Deep down I wonder if this would be some type of closure for my wife, and she already feels like we’re done and there’s no chance of coming back. Sigh.


Ok , I’m going to come from a different angle. First off I’m a woman and I have been exactly where she. Is. I read your words and I could picture me at one time saying that very same thing to my ex husband when we had already stayed well past our marriages expiration date. It wasn’t me trying to trap him and I don’t think she is trying to trap you. It was me looking for something different.. something to make me feel alive. You are simply her buddy at this point. Her wingman. She has no intention on getting back with you. She wants to change your relationship into something where she can have the best of both worlds. Her being molested as a child is traumatic and horrific … however you said the issues just recently started. I have seen a lot of adults use past trauma as a crutch when they need to manipulate someone. I know a couple women that have used childhood trauma just to get out of sex with their husbands and the husbands want to believe that is the reason so they go along wi the it. 
I am not sure if you want to stay in the relationship or not at this point but there is one sure fire to make her rethink her actions… and quite possibly become the pursuer .. even to the point of blaming you for being uncaring for her trauma if she doesn’t get her way.
Turn the tables. She wants a thrill… she’s looking for excitement.. you are old boring dependable and she’s taking that for granted . Show her just what life will be like when you guys are done and you have moved on. Don’t return texts right away, give short replies, don’t offer any information, be very vague. If you have a location finder on your phones that you share, then it off, change all passwords.. give her no access to anything . After all… she wants out.. tell her you are just getting ready. Take the apartment, go for beers with the guys. Be happy and upbeat when you do see her . If you get a text in her presence, turn your phone over . Tell her your not going on an anniversary outing because at this point there is nothing to celebrate together . Tell her to take a friend to the strip joint and you will go with friends. Make it clear you are there for her for the kids, financial responsibility of property you share etc but you are not to be on call for her . People will say this is manipulative and they would be correct…. It is… but so is what she is doing . You will find strength and power in it .. putting the ball back in your court. It will also allow you to move on should you guys end it for good.


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## jlg07

Jay375 said:


> The main reason is because we had two horrible years during Covid. Lots of damage was done and we’re trying to rebuild our marriage and trust. She also is a victim of sexual assault in her teen years and it’s had far-reaching consequences on our marriage. Our couples therapist has actually said we need to take physical intimacy off the table for now as we rebuild it in stages. So that’s the main reason. Just dealing with a lot of nuances.


Is SHE under a therapists care for her own issues about the sexual assault? That is something SHE needs to work on independently of the marriage counseling. If that is an underlying issue for her, nothing will be resolved for the marriage.

Also, if you DO go to vegas, there are TONS of things that don't require strip clubs. I wouldn't


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## umbluu

---The idea that this is some fun trip to rekindle romance is a porno fantasy. Nothing sexy at all about being ignored and unfavorably compared to younger, prettier women. 

That was more of the OPs idea, or my interpretation of his idea. In fact the wife may be motivated by something more similar to what TravlRN has suggested. 
Do not agree with the rest of TravlRN post though. Yes, there are all kinds of people without strong inner moral compass, who would use any topic to be manipulative around it. So yes, there surely are some people who would claim their trauma had the effects it did not actually have, for some nefarious purpose. At the same time, it is quite common to have some trauma without fully understanding its importance, live for a while (often many years) on autopilot, start some sexual/romantic/LT relationships, be triggered by something within that relationship, go to therapy / do some self-directed work, discover that trauma was actually more important that they used to think, etc. Stop having sex for a some period of time while trying to sort it out, in case of sexual trauma... Most people would like to assume that this stop is temporary. For some it may be, for some it may be more long-term... Does not necessarily make them manipulative.
Even if the wife in question is manipulative, what good will it make to try out-manipulating her? Well, if you are in the war mode, then maybe. But OP becoming manipulative will not be beneficial if the goal is either amicable divorce or reconciliation. Not to mention that one may decide to not do certain things even in war, out of self-respect.


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## gold5932

Maybe she wants to see another woman be attracted to you, even if it's at a strip club. Maybe she just wants to change things up. Maybe she just wants to have some fun. Maybe, Maybe, who cares. I've been to Vegas strip clubs with partners, and it was fun. You're going to separate. Go have a last good time.


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## re16

I wouldn't go along with her idea to go to a strip club. I think there is an agenda behind it. It can be tough for stable couples to handle that environment, but with your situation, it is all bad news.

Honestly, it sounds like your relationship is dead and that you are just wasting time, valuable time in your life that you will never get back.

I can almost guarantee that it will be brought up in divorce that you were getting a lap dance or some other thing in a strip club....


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## LATERILUS79

Jay375 said:


> The main reason is because we had two horrible years during Covid. Lots of damage was done and we’re trying to rebuild our marriage and trust. She also is a victim of sexual assault in her teen years and it’s had far-reaching consequences on our marriage. Our couples therapist has actually said we need to take physical intimacy off the table for now as we rebuild it in stages. So that’s the main reason. Just dealing with a lot of nuances.


The more I read your story, the more I knew this post was coming.

my exwife said the same things (doesn’t know if intimacy can come back, thinks I should be with other women).

this fight you are in right now? It’s not worth it. You may need to learn this the hard way (I know I do), but it isn’t worth it. I’m guessing she also never bothered to get professional help for this. She is using you as an emotional crutch. She is putting all the pain of her trauma onto you and pulling you into her pit of despair. She is acting extremely selfish. I’m as empathetic as the next person when it comes to trauma, but it’s not cool when trauma victims hurt others with their trauma.


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## Jay375

TravlRN said:


> Ok , I’m going to come from a different angle. First off I’m a woman and I have been exactly where she. Is. I read your words and I could picture me at one time saying that very same thing to my ex husband when we had already stayed well past our marriages expiration date. It wasn’t me trying to trap him and I don’t think she is trying to trap you. It was me looking for something different.. something to make me feel alive. You are simply her buddy at this point. Her wingman. She has no intention on getting back with you. She wants to change your relationship into something where she can have the best of both worlds. Her being molested as a child is traumatic and horrific … however you said the issues just recently started. I have seen a lot of adults use past trauma as a crutch when they need to manipulate someone. I know a couple women that have used childhood trauma just to get out of sex with their husbands and the husbands want to believe that is the reason so they go along wi the it.
> I am not sure if you want to stay in the relationship or not at this point but there is one sure fire to make her rethink her actions… and quite possibly become the pursuer .. even to the point of blaming you for being uncaring for her trauma if she doesn’t get her way.
> Turn the tables. She wants a thrill… she’s looking for excitement.. you are old boring dependable and she’s taking that for granted . Show her just what life will be like when you guys are done and you have moved on. Don’t return texts right away, give short replies, don’t offer any information, be very vague. If you have a location finder on your phones that you share, then it off, change all passwords.. give her no access to anything . After all… she wants out.. tell her you are just getting ready. Take the apartment, go for beers with the guys. Be happy and upbeat when you do see her . If you get a text in her presence, turn your phone over . Tell her your not going on an anniversary outing because at this point there is nothing to celebrate together . Tell her to take a friend to the strip joint and you will go with friends. Make it clear you are there for her for the kids, financial responsibility of property you share etc but you are not to be on call for her . People will say this is manipulative and they would be correct…. It is… but so is what she is doing . You will find strength and power in it .. putting the ball back in your court. It will also allow you to move on should you guys end it for good.


I think you nailed it. And I think she sees separation as her chance to get on her own feet, see if she misses me, and if she doesn’t then she can move forward with divorce. If she does miss me, I’ll always be there. And that’s EXACTLY how she sees this. I’m not going anywhere, I’ll never be unfaithful, I’m a loyal dog that will always come home.


----------



## Married but Happy

IMO, take it at face value, which I think is that she wants to see you take steps to move on, and yes, this outing might be fun for both of you. What do you have to lose? You're planning on divorce, so what trick is there? If you have any concerns, take a pic of her (or both of you) outside the club to show that she was there as well, so can't accuse you of cheating.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Jay375 said:


> I think you nailed it. And I think she sees separation as her chance to get on her own feet, see if she misses me, and if she doesn’t then she can move forward with divorce. If she does miss me, I’ll always be there. And that’s EXACTLY how she sees this. I’m not going anywhere, I’ll never be unfaithful, I’m a loyal dog that will always come home.


Which is why you should NOT allow a separation under any circumstance.
Because she will not miss you during the separation, because she will find new and exciting things (and people) to do. 
Any value or desire to salvage your broken marriage will be far overshadowed with the emotional thrills of her new single situation.

You will lose and suffer far more pain from a separation. Don’t allow it.

She doesn't respect the loyal dog who will never go anywhere and always come home. It’s not attractive. No woman respects a man who she knows will always be there no matter what she does.


----------



## SunCMars

Jay375 said:


> I think you nailed it. And I think she sees separation as her chance to get on her own feet, see if she misses me, and if she doesn’t then she can move forward with divorce. If she does miss me, I’ll always be there. And that’s EXACTLY how she sees this. I’m not going anywhere, I’ll never be unfaithful, I’m a loyal dog that will always come home.


For once, surprise her.

Give her what she does not expect.
Your immediately filing for divorce, you finding her replacement.

That is not saying she will be hurt or disappointed.
This may relieve her of any guilty feelings she may be harboring.

Um.


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## TexasMom1216

Jay375 said:


> I think you nailed it. And I think she sees separation as her chance to get on her own feet, see if she misses me, and if she doesn’t then she can move forward with divorce. If she does miss me, I’ll always be there. And that’s EXACTLY how she sees this. I’m not going anywhere, I’ll never be unfaithful, I’m a loyal dog that will always come home.


Don't let her do that to you.


----------



## happyhusband0005

I generally agree with people that it sounds like she is setting you up for trouble or is trying to set a mental moral high ground for herself because she feels bad that she has fallen out of love with you. 

The other possibilities are.

1. She loves you like a friend but she has no sex drive and wants to do the strip club thing to test out how she would feel seeing you getting touchy and turned on by other women. Then she can see if she would really be ok with you getting your sexual needs met elsewhere.

2. She thinks seeing you with another women will cause her to feel some jealousy which might reawaken the romantic love she once had.

3. She is actually into women and the strip club is for her. Hence her thinking she may never want sex with you again. She might be slowly coming out of the closet. 

4. It's Vegas, people do wild stuff in Vegas. 

Generally it sounds like your marriage is over so you could go a bunch of different directions. 

1. Pull the cord and accept it's over and get on with ending it for real now.

2. Try a live in separation, give each other a lot of space with limited interaction and communication. (If your living situation allows this)

3. Say screw it, go to Vegas, hit the strip club see what happens. If you do this get a table near but not on the stage, don't do any private dances alone, if she pushes you to go get a private dance only do it if she goes with you. Be aware clubs in Vegas get very pricey and some will scam you. My wife and I went one time got a 3 song private dance got done and was presented with a bill for $700. Complete scam run by the vip manager. Strip clubs as a couple can be fun and sexy, but I don't see it as a legit way to fix marriage problems.


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## Loves Coffee

Jay375 said:


> I think you nailed it. And I think she sees separation as her chance to get on her own feet, see if she misses me, and if she doesn’t then she can move forward with divorce. If she does miss me, I’ll always be there. And that’s EXACTLY how she sees this. I’m not going anywhere, I’ll never be unfaithful, I’m a loyal dog that will always come home.


There are a variety of ways you can come from a position of strength. What TravelRN is describing to you is the 180 which is catered for cheating spouses which I guess could fit here. You can stand up for yourself and demand respect in a variety of ways. My suggestion would be a combination of what DudeInProgress and SunCMars are saying. I would 1) Confront her about the dead bedroom and let her know under no circumstance that this is acceptable. Don't blow up about it just let her know you're serious. 2) No way are you going to celebrate an anniversary much less go to a strip club with her until things are repaired between the two of you, and after that there will be no strip club. 3) If she can't open up and cut the bologna right this instant that you consider the marriage done. It's time to speak real truth. No innuendo or agendas. 4) You're no longer going to counseling with that crappy therapist. You're adults and can work it out like adults. If she needs therapy for her past then she can do that on her own. You're not part of that, but can offer her an ear to listen and shoulder to cry on, but you're still having sex after that.  If she still says no, then take action decisive immediately in your best interests.


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## SunCMars

Ah, how tough we are, we think.

All this, prior to entering the gladiators arena.

In the arena, no one leaves without pain, scars, scabs, and what if's !

No man has ever left a LTR without a bit of pride, a section of foreskin, lost.

All, are lesser men, after the fact, after the dividing of 'asses'.


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## DamianDamian

Separation almost never helps and almost always forces you further apart. It's over, go to the strip club and try and have a good time regardless of what she does.


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## re16

Jay375 said:


> And that’s EXACTLY how she sees this. I’m not going anywhere, I’ll never be unfaithful, I’m a loyal dog that will always come home.


Do you see it that way? Are you ok with going into this separation and allowing her to choose if you are part of her long term plan? It sounds like you are saying that, and that is a huge mistake. The others are correct that if you simply accept any behavior she throws at you, you look weak, and women do not find that attractive, at all.

It seems like she has taken away most of the things that make a marriage a different kind of relationship than one you have with everyone else.... you have become roomates and now she is even taking that away.

I wouldn't be going on this trip with her period, and I would also follow @TravlRN 's advice about changing how you communicate with her. She has effectively ended your marriage and you are still waiting there like a lost puppy, waiting to see what she does.


----------



## BootsAndJeans




----------



## SunCMars

umbluu said:


> I am sorry, but where is it written that the wife suggested OP to have sex with someone else at that strip club? It was written that she proposed it as some kind of fun shared experience and OP believed that it might lead to some intimacy between him and his wife afterwards...





Jay375 said:


> She said physical intimacy is important to her, but it isn’t a dealbreaker for marriage. She’s very worried about me not having physical intimacy in my life and not sure she will ever feel ready to provide it again. * Has said it’s a bigger deal to her that I have it than that she does.* *Told me last night that knowing I’d be open to the fact it might be with someone else in the future and not ever her again removes pressure from her, feeling like she’s hurting me or making life hard for me. *
> 
> My wife has said she’d like to go to a strip club together as a couple on our anniversary. Said she thinks it would be a fun experience and memory for us, *but also seeing me with another women and being open to that* actually makes her feel less pressure, feel like things will be ok one way or the other. .


It is in his opening post, as highlighted.


----------



## umbluu

SunCMars, OK my bad. These were two different conversations, but I did not realize that they were separated by just one night ("last night" versus "today"). I mistakenly interpreted these two conversations as completely separate. 
Still, call me an idealist, but I am not into always suspecting the worst. I also seem to see respect or disrespect not quite in the same places as the majority here sees them. For me getting knowingly manipulative in response to possible manipulation is a worse lack of self-respect than giving the spouse some benefit of the doubt. Also "your trauma - your problem, I am still entitled to my sex" attitude (not by OP but suggested by someone else) does not sit well with me at all. Where is TexasMom1216 when we need her?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

DudeInProgress said:


> Yes, you’re being naïve, wake up.
> You need to take control of your situation immediately and not let your wife dictate the terms of your marriage and eventual divorce - because that’s where it’s going.
> 
> DO NOT allow a separation, period.
> A separation is only a way to:
> 
> ease into a divorce at her convenience,
> and/or
> try out another man/men. Do not allow a separation. She can work on her issues at home, as your wife. You can give her some space without a separation.
> She’s either your wife or she’s not. Do not tolerate anything in between.
> If she insists she needs a separation to figure things out, YOU file for divorce immediately - because that is what she is choosing. She just wants to do it at her convenience.
> If she insists on a separation, she is choosing to no longer be your wife, you need to respond accordingly.
> You need to act immediately in your own best interest.
> And if your therapist supports the idea of a separation, they are counterproductive and you need to find a new therapist.
> 
> As for the strip club thing, don’t do it. It’s a stupid complication that she will use (consciously or not) to continue detaching from you.
> 
> You also need to set your marriage expectations with her right now.
> Tell her that marriage is a sexual relationship and that you’re not willing to live in a sexless marriage. And you’re not interested in having an open marriage. So your intent is to rebuild a fulfilling sexual marriage, and if she’s not on board with that objective, there’s no point.


Something very strange going on.


----------



## ElOtro

Whatever may be her conjectural reasons, don´t.


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## cp3o

My serially cheating XW was desperate for me to have sex with another woman - she thought that that would absolve her from her misbehaviour.
To the extent that she set me up with delivering something unnecessary to her best friend, when I arrived (already suspicious) friend's husband and daughters were out and I was offered coffee and then sex. (The coffee wasn't very good - I ignored the offer of sex and left). 
She then set up a dinner party with a colleague, her husband and two other couples where it soon became clear that mixing up the couples was expected, whether in separate rooms or a heap on the living room floor I never found out - the sitter's need to be taken home enabled me to excuse us before I gave way to the desire to hit someone. 
Your wife is not my XW - but be aware that such women do exist.


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## DownByTheRiver

Maybe this is her way of saying let's still be friends while we're single. Maybe she is planning to see other men during this separation. I don't know where you are but I know in the US when someone is doing a separation all the ones I know were also seeing other people during the separation.


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## Quad73

Even if it's not a setup (which I have a strong suspicion it is) imagine for a minute what this anniversary 'celebration' at a strip club is gonna look like from your perspective...

You'll have blue balls & strong emotions about the marriage - - while she feels NOTHING and is NOT going to have sex with you afterwards; she's already said it. Plus you have a two year history of screaming at each other. Can you imagine, for a minute, how that night is going to end for you?

Don't do it, you're looking at a catastrophic outcome here.


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## DownByTheRiver

Maybe it's a male dancer strip club!


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## TexasMom1216

DownByTheRiver said:


> Maybe it's a male dancer strip club!


Boy that would change the answers on here, wouldn’t it? 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Young at Heart

Jay375 said:


> ....... Currently on our 10th Anniversary vacation in Las Vegas. My *wife and I are headed for separation* eventually after and we’ve known that.
> 
> ..........*We’re both committed to working on our marriage — she says she’ll never give up and hopes I won’t either — but we’ve decided we aren’t going to heal under the same roof. We will continue couples therapy and weekly get together.* So we’re planning on looking at apartments upon our return.
> 
> We *haven’t had sex or been intimate in 3 months*. .......... *she has no interest*. *She wants to build that back, but is honest that she feels like it may never come back. She said physical intimacy is important to he*r, but it isn’t a dealbreaker for marriage. *She’s very worried about me not having physical intimacy in my life and not sure she will ever feel ready to provide it again. Has said it’s a bigger deal to her that I have it than that she does.* Told me last night that knowing I’d be open to the fact it might be with someone else in the future and not ever her again removes pressure from her, feeling like she’s hurting me or making life hard for me. *She knows I’m 100% faithful, fully in love with her, and only want it to be with her. She said that just feels like crushing pressure to her, because she feels no emotional connection right now.*
> 
> So fast forward to today. My wife has said *she’d like to go to a strip club together as a couple on our anniversary*. Said she thinks it would be a fun experience and memory for us, but also *seeing me with another women and being open to that actually makes her feel less pressure,* feel like things will be ok one way or the other. I’m just so confused. .....





Jay375 said:


> ........ She also is a *victim of sexual assault in her teen years* and it’s had far-reaching consequences on our marriage. *Our couples therapist has actually said we need to take physical intimacy off the table for now *as we rebuild it in stages.......





Jay375 said:


> .......She really feels like the separation is the only way to heal herself and not have the involuntary stress reactions. But again, might just be BS to move things on. *I’m also the sole provider,* so clearly she’d struggle without my support.





Jay375 said:


> No, but *she’s said that she never has trusted me for the majority of our marriage and has “submitted” herself to me sexually our whole marriage instead of really being emotionally connected and engaged*. She’s been in therapy for 6 months and a lot of this has come out of that.





Jay375 said:


> ..... I think *she sees separation as her chance to get on her own feet, see if she misses me, and if she doesn’t then she can move forward with divorce*. If she does miss me, I’ll always be there. And that’s EXACTLY how she sees this. I’m not going anywhere, I’ll never be unfaithful, I’m a loyal dog that will always come home.


I am so sorry for you. One of the things, I didn't read is your age and if you have children. Those are all important factors.

My perspective is much different than most. I believe that it is best to believe what people tell you until you suspect or know that they are lying to you. I think that there are too many issues going on to expect any kind of simple or quick fix and may be so many that saving the marriage may be impossible.

What you have posted is that you both want to do a separation, you both know your marriage is on the rocks, you are both committed to marriage counseling to try to save the marriage if possible. If that doesn't work then maybe divorce, although she sounds more reluctant than you (possibly for good financial reasons).

I think the insight you were given about the separation being a way to get her feet back on the ground and test things out while having you financially support her is probably exactly what is going on in her mind. Although her comments about being committed and fighting for the marriage is probably something she also wants to believe she is capable of. She could easily have two future paths that she thinks she could live with and doesn't completely know which to try to follow.

I further believe that in her mind she does feel bad about denying you sex and intimacy. While not in a romantic or sexual way, I feel that she does care for you, possibly like a close friend or room mate. I would view the "let's go to a strip club" as her giving you an anniversary present that she cannot give personally. She wants you to have some female companionship and feel the illusion of being sexually desired, but just not from her. I suspect she feels that this is something she can do for you, that you would appreciate and that she can facilitate. I don't think it is a trap, based on what you have posted. If it is a test, I think it is more a test of her and what she can handle than a test of you. And, I don't believe that if you go to the strip club, you will get anything more than the illusion of sex (without any real sex), having a professional stripper take as much money from the two of you as possible, and a lot of sexual frustration. Of course if the strip club goes well, it might restore some of your confidence in yourself, but it would be an illusion, as the only thing the stripper would be interested in was money not you.

The marriage counselor is probably right in taking sex with your W off the table. Sensate Focus exercises would be a far better way to build sensual and emotional connection than a strip club. Ask your marriage counselor about Sensate Focus exercises. Not sure about what you meant when you said that during separation you would live apart but see each other once a week. If that meeting was for sex, if it was because of kids, if it was because of finances, if it was because of friendship or all of the above. A day a week devoted to a marriage counseling session, dinner, talking, sensate focus exercises, and if the reconciliation is going well sex, could be a way to gradually bring back intimacy and desire.

I was in a sex starved marriage. Marriage counseling with a board certified sex therapist really helped save my marriage. Since you sound like you want to try to save your marriage and since you posted that your W was committed to working on trying to save your marriage, I think you should give marriage counseling a try.

Her child sexual abuse is something that she really needs to prioritize and work on. If she doesn't get that resolved, your chances of saving your marriage will be much lower. Once she gets some resolution of that past trauma and realizes that you were not responsible and should not be punished for that, then your progress on reconciling your marriage should make better progress.
In your free time while separated, read MW Davis books Divorce Busting and the Sex Starved Marriage. Also read Glove's book No More Mr. Nice Guy.

Enjoy your trip to Vegas. Why not celebrate a 10 year anniversary? You may get a few comps at hotel's and restaurants. Maybe even a free lap dance at the strip club.

Seriously, I am sorry for what you are going through. No matter what happens, if you work on healing and building yourself during the separation period, even if you divorce, you will likely end up living a good life. Look for happiness and be optimistic.

Good luck


----------



## ElOtro

TexasMom1216 said:


> Boy that would change the answers on here, wouldn’t it? 😂😂😂😂


Not mine


----------



## Jay375

Young at Heart said:


> I am so sorry for you. One of the things, I didn't read is your age and if you have children. Those are all important factors.
> 
> My perspective is much different than most. I believe that it is best to believe what people tell you until you suspect or know that they are lying to you. I think that there are too many issues going on to expect any kind of simple or quick fix and may be so many that saving the marriage may be impossible.
> 
> What you have posted is that you both want to do a separation, you both know your marriage is on the rocks, you are both committed to marriage counseling to try to save the marriage if possible. If that doesn't work then maybe divorce, although she sounds more reluctant than you (possibly for good financial reasons).
> 
> I think the insight you were given about the separation being a way to get her feet back on the ground and test things out while having you financially support her is probably exactly what is going on in her mind. Although her comments about being committed and fighting for the marriage is probably something she also wants to believe she is capable of. She could easily have two future paths that she thinks she could live with and doesn't completely know which to try to follow.
> 
> I further believe that in her mind she does feel bad about denying you sex and intimacy. While not in a romantic or sexual way, I feel that she does care for you, possibly like a close friend or room mate. I would view the "let's go to a strip club" as her giving you an anniversary present that she cannot give personally. She wants you to have some female companionship and feel the illusion of being sexually desired, but just not from her. I suspect she feels that this is something she can do for you, that you would appreciate and that she can facilitate. I don't think it is a trap, based on what you have posted. If it is a test, I think it is more a test of her and what she can handle than a test of you. And, I don't believe that if you go to the strip club, you will get anything more than the illusion of sex (without any real sex), having a professional stripper take as much money from the two of you as possible, and a lot of sexual frustration. Of course if the strip club goes well, it might restore some of your confidence in yourself, but it would be an illusion, as the only thing the stripper would be interested in was money not you.
> 
> The marriage counselor is probably right in taking sex with your W off the table. Sensate Focus exercises would be a far better way to build sensual and emotional connection than a strip club. Ask your marriage counselor about Sensate Focus exercises. Not sure about what you meant when you said that during separation you would live apart but see each other once a week. If that meeting was for sex, if it was because of kids, if it was because of finances, if it was because of friendship or all of the above. A day a week devoted to a marriage counseling session, dinner, talking, sensate focus exercises, and if the reconciliation is going well sex, could be a way to gradually bring back intimacy and desire.
> 
> I was in a sex starved marriage. Marriage counseling with a board certified sex therapist really helped save my marriage. Since you sound like you want to try to save your marriage and since you posted that your W was committed to working on trying to save your marriage, I think you should give marriage counseling a try.
> 
> Her child sexual abuse is something that she really needs to prioritize and work on. If she doesn't get that resolved, your chances of saving your marriage will be much lower. Once she gets some resolution of that past trauma and realizes that you were not responsible and should not be punished for that, then your progress on reconciling your marriage should make better progress.
> In your free time while separated, read MW Davis books Divorce Busting and the Sex Starved Marriage. Also read Glove's book No More Mr. Nice Guy.
> 
> Enjoy your trip to Vegas. Why not celebrate a 10 year anniversary? You may get a few comps at hotel's and restaurants. Maybe even a free lap dance at the strip club.
> 
> Seriously, I am sorry for what you are going through. No matter what happens, if you work on healing and building yourself during the separation period, even if you divorce, you will likely end up living a good life. Look for happiness and be optimistic.
> 
> Good luck


This is very close to the mark. She said her main reason for wanting to go to the strip club is things have been too uptight between us, and she just wants to do something fun to shake us up a bit. If six months from now she has a new guy then I can say you all were right, but it doesn’t feel that way right now. I’ve had access to her phone and there’s nothing in there except a person who is very confused and is seeking help from her close girl friends and a spiritual leader. I think it’s much more likely she just doesn’t know which way this will all blow, and I know staying with me right now doesn’t excite her. We’ve been “on our way back” for 2-3 months now, but it just hasn’t been enough. We still have bad days that bring back all of our problems, followed by a great day. It’s a roller coaster, and along with her other past issues shes fighting, she’s worn out and emotionally depleted. I think she views separation as the only way to get herself back—for us possibly or not. However that will work. We have two kids 9 and 12. We’re talking about doing a nesting arrangement where we’d swap weeks at the apartment, kids would stay in the house, and we’d have a date night on Saturdays, followed by family day together on Sundays as we work through all of this. Boundaries clearly set with the therapist, no infidelity, no dating,etc.


----------



## BecauseSheWeeps

Jay375 said:


> The main reason is because we had two horrible years during Covid. Lots of damage was done and we’re trying to rebuild our marriage and trust. She also is a victim of sexual assault in her teen years and it’s had far-reaching consequences on our marriage. Our couples therapist has actually said we need to take physical intimacy off the table for now as we rebuild it in stages. So that’s the main reason. Just dealing with a lot of nuances.


I deal with the same crap with my husband. He has a lot of emotional, sexual trauma from his childhood.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Just my 2c, but I've never seen a separation work out for a man. When a woman walks into a room and says, so which of you big boys would like to take me to bed, she's not going home alone. Most separated women seems to try out another man.

I'd advise men to just end it when it comes to separation. PERIOD.


----------



## *Deidre*

Jay375 said:


> This is very close to the mark. She said her main reason for wanting to go to the strip club is things have been too uptight between us, and she just wants to do something fun to shake us up a bit. If six months from now she has a new guy then I can say you all were right, but it doesn’t feel that way right now. I’ve had access to her phone and there’s nothing in there except a person who is very confused and is seeking help from her close girl friends and a spiritual leader. I think it’s much more likely she just doesn’t know which way this will all blow, and I know staying with me right now doesn’t excite her. We’ve been “on our way back” for 2-3 months now, but it just hasn’t been enough. We still have bad days that bring back all of our problems, followed by a great day. It’s a roller coaster, and along with her other past issues shes fighting, she’s worn out and emotionally depleted. I think she views separation as the only way to get herself back—for us possibly or not. However that will work. We have two kids 9 and 12. We’re talking about doing a nesting arrangement where we’d swap weeks at the apartment, kids would stay in the house, and we’d have a date night on Saturdays, followed by family day together on Sundays as we work through all of this. Boundaries clearly set with the therapist, no infidelity, no dating,etc.


That doesn't sound like that bad of a plan in terms of the day-to-day stuff (without the strip club) but do you have an idea in your mind of when you'd want to be living together full time? Obviously, you'd have to see how things go, but this arrangement could go on for a very long time, unless you have a boundary for yourself, you know?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

*Deidre* said:


> That doesn't sound like that bad of a plan in terms of the day-to-day stuff (without the strip club) but do you have an idea in your mind of when you'd want to be living together full time? Obviously, you'd have to see how things go, but this arrangement could go on for a very long time, unless you have a boundary for yourself, you know?


They're already separating, have talked about that. She's cut out sex, and told him she wants to separate.


----------



## *Deidre*

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> They're already separating, have talked about that. She's cut out sex, and told him she wants to separate.


I know, but it seems like they're planning to use the separation to work their way back to being together full time, where some couples seem to separate, and there's no ''date nights'' etc...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

*Deidre* said:


> I know, but it seems like they're planning to use the separation to work their way back to being together full time, where some couples seem to separate, and there's no ''date nights'' etc...


Perhaps. But from other bits of info in the thread sounds not so much. But I could be wrong. 
Likely it's a trap to help her in upcoming divorce.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Jay375 said:


> This is very close to the mark. She said her main reason for wanting to go to the strip club is things have been too uptight between us, and she just wants to do something fun to shake us up a bit. If six months from now she has a new guy then I can say you all were right, but it doesn’t feel that way right now. I’ve had access to her phone and there’s nothing in there except a person who is very confused and is seeking help from her close girl friends and a spiritual leader. I think it’s much more likely she just doesn’t know which way this will all blow, and I know staying with me right now doesn’t excite her. We’ve been “on our way back” for 2-3 months now, but it just hasn’t been enough. We still have bad days that bring back all of our problems, followed by a great day. It’s a roller coaster, and along with her other past issues shes fighting, she’s worn out and emotionally depleted. I think she views separation as the only way to get herself back—for us possibly or not. However that will work. We have two kids 9 and 12. We’re talking about doing a nesting arrangement where we’d swap weeks at the apartment, kids would stay in the house, and we’d have a date night on Saturdays, followed by family day together on Sundays as we work through all of this. Boundaries clearly set with the therapist, no infidelity, no dating,etc.


OP, are you receiving what the VAST majority of folks are telling you? 
I’m asking because you only seem to respond to the couple of posts that didn’t explicitly advise you against a separation.

Pretty much EVERYONE is telling you not to allow a separation.
I can only assume by your lack of engagement that you don’t want to hear that guidance. 
Good luck I guess.


----------



## Jay375

DudeInProgress said:


> OP, are you receiving what the VAST majority of folks are telling you?
> I’m asking because you only seem to respond to the couple of posts that didn’t explicitly advise you against a separation.
> 
> Pretty much EVERYONE is telling you not to allow a separation.
> I can only assume by your lack of engagement that you don’t want to hear that guidance.
> Good luck I guess.


 It’s not that, it’s that the majority of posters aren’t even reading. They keep saying “serve her with divorce papers!” without even reading my post saying my state requires a 1 YEAR SEPARATION before even filing!


----------



## DudeInProgress

*Deidre* said:


> I know, but it seems like they're planning to use the separation to work their way back to being together full time, where some couples seem to separate, and there's no ''date nights'' etc...


Doesn’t work like that.
Separation NEVER brings people back together. I have never seen it work, but seen it fail many times. 
I am also not aware of any separations where the instigating spouse wasn’t enjoying the attention of other men/women. 

So I guess if OP wants to pay for his wife to live separately as a single woman, testing out and ****ing other men, while he remains at home with the children like a pathetic cuckold until she finally decides she’s comfortable enough to divorce, sure I guess. 
As long as he also gets some (sexless) date nights with her…


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Jay375 said:


> This is very close to the mark. She said her main reason for wanting to go to the strip club is things have been too uptight between us, and she just wants to do something fun to shake us up a bit. If six months from now she has a new guy then I can say you all were right, but it doesn’t feel that way right now. I’ve had access to her phone and there’s nothing in there except a person who is very confused and is seeking help from her close girl friends and a spiritual leader. I think it’s much more likely she just doesn’t know which way this will all blow, and I know staying with me right now doesn’t excite her. We’ve been “on our way back” for 2-3 months now, but it just hasn’t been enough. We still have bad days that bring back all of our problems, followed by a great day. It’s a roller coaster, and along with her other past issues shes fighting, she’s worn out and emotionally depleted. I think she views separation as the only way to get herself back—for us possibly or not. However that will work. We have two kids 9 and 12. We’re talking about doing a nesting arrangement where we’d swap weeks at the apartment, kids would stay in the house, and we’d have a date night on Saturdays, followed by family day together on Sundays as we work through all of this. Boundaries clearly set with the therapist, no infidelity, no dating,etc.


Man, with this arrangement she's gaining her free time to look about, testing the waters with other guys while still getting you to help pay for her life. She'll have an open M, except you still won't be having sex with her. Until she's steadily sexing with others then she'll have sex with you only to hold you in the loop of crap and make you feel hopeful, so she can keep her party going as long as possible.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Jay375 said:


> It’s not that, it’s that the majority of posters aren’t even reading. They keep saying “serve her with divorce papers!” without even reading my post saying my state requires a 1 YEAR SEPARATION before even filing!


We've read, but it seems like you are thinking about a separation with the aim of getting back together. We are counseling to change your mindset to the finality of it, get the divorce rolling and not leaving a door open for her.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Man, with this arrangement she's gaining her free time to look about, testing the waters with other guys while still getting you to help pay for her life. She'll have an open M, except you still won't be having sex with her. Until she's steadily sexing with others then she'll have sex with you only to hold you in the loop of crap and make you feel hopeful, so she can keep her party going as long as possible.


And if she knows he's having sex with other people, guess what that means for her? She may have no interest in that, because anything is possible, but I'd be surprised if that thought hadn't crossed her mind. I agree, this sounds like a is-the-grass-really-greener test run with an opt out if she doesn't like it. I'm never a fan of a "trial separation" or anything like that, because I agree with the posters who are saying a separation is just a prelude to divorce.

ETA: I just saw your post about the one year separation requirement. So, in that case, yeah, you gotta separate. But IMHO you should enter that separation with the mindset that divorce is the endgame. I wouldn't hang out with her or go to a strip club or have any kind of sexual or romantic or unnecessary contact with her.


----------



## *Deidre*

DudeInProgress said:


> Doesn’t work like that.
> Separation NEVER brings people back together. I have never seen it work, but seen it fail many times.
> I am also not aware of any separations where the instigating spouse wasn’t enjoying the attention of other men/women.
> 
> So I guess if OP wants to pay for his wife to live separately as a single woman, testing out and ****ing other men, while he remains at home with the children like a pathetic cuckold until she finally decides she’s comfortable enough to divorce, sure I guess.
> As long as he also gets some (sexless) date nights with her…


Yea, I agree...

We have no emotional connection like he does, so he's not able to see things as we see them from our point of view. He's also used to the roller coaster, and some people just can't imagine a life without all the drama. They can't imagine a calmer life, and it scares them, tbh. They've had this dynamic it sounds like, for a long time...and sadly, it will only get worse, because I tend to agree that separating often turns into dating to see if the grass is greener.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Jay375 said:


> It’s not that, it’s that the majority of posters aren’t even reading. They keep saying “serve her with divorce papers!” without even reading my post saying my state requires a 1 YEAR SEPARATION before even filing!


Don’t miss the point on a technicality.
The point is do not allow a separation on the pretense of still working on the marriage. It’s not true and it never works.
You need to make it clear to her that if she insists on there separation, that means the marriage is over and you’re not working on it anymore.
Reread everything everyone has told you, without getting hung up on the divorce filing order. 
Have you even consulted a lawyer on the specifics and what steps can be taken prior to separation?


----------



## umbluu

--- Man, with this arrangement she's gaining her free time to look about, testing the waters with other guys while still getting you to help pay for her life. She'll have an open M, except you still won't be having sex with her. 

Maybe. But if we take what was said about trauma at face value, it is equally likely that she will not have any sex during that separation. Or maybe ever, depending on how her therapy, if any, goes...
Jay375, is she addressing her trauma in individual therapy? If yes, does she share much about how it goes with you, on this and other topics? I am still trying to figure out how much you communicate and to what extent you feel tat you can trust what she is telling you.


----------



## Loves Coffee

Jay375 said:


> This is very close to the mark. She said her main reason for wanting to go to the strip club is things have been too uptight between us, and she just wants to do something fun to shake us up a bit. *If six months from now she has a new guy then I can say you all were right*, but it doesn’t feel that way right now. I’ve had access to her phone and there’s nothing in there except a person who is very confused and is seeking help from her close girl friends and a spiritual leader. I think it’s much more likely she just doesn’t know which way this will all blow, and I know staying with me right now doesn’t excite her. We’ve been “on our way back” for 2-3 months now, but it just hasn’t been enough. We still have bad days that bring back all of our problems, followed by a great day. It’s a roller coaster, and along with her other past issues shes fighting, she’s worn out and emotionally depleted. I think she views separation as the only way to get herself back—for us possibly or not. However that will work. We have two kids 9 and 12. We’re talking about doing a nesting arrangement where we’d swap weeks at the apartment, kids would stay in the house, and we’d have a date night on Saturdays, followed by family day together on Sundays as we work through all of this. Boundaries clearly set with the therapist, no infidelity, no dating,etc.


That's not the attitude you should be taking. You and the therapist who cut you off from sex know best, right? It seems like you have made your mind up and are taking a gamble with very low chance of success. Good luck!



Jay375 said:


> It’s not that, it’s that the* majority of posters aren’t even reading*. They keep saying “serve her with divorce papers!” without even reading my post saying my state requires a 1 YEAR SEPARATION before even filing!


It doesn't take much imagination that if someone tells you to divorce that includes doing whatever is necessary beforehand, but moving on emotionally and physically. Do you really need things spelled out for you step by step? 

I'm starting to see why she's ready to leave.


----------



## TAMAT

Jay375, 

Jay your W wants to leave you but wants a good story to tell other people as to why you split up, "we used to go to strip clubs together and he fooled around with those women".

This may be especially true if people she know tell her that they like how you treat your wife. She has to dirty up your image to justify her leaving you. 

Possibly she does not want other women who know you grabbing you when she leaves.

Alternately she might like women more than men, and will get the same thrill men who want to cucks gets?

Could also be ammunition for the divorce proceedings.


----------



## Jay375

I declined the strip club. Nothing good could come from that.


----------



## Dictum Veritas

Jay375 said:


> I declined the strip club. Nothing good could come from that.


Good on you, now read up on the 180:

The 180

Use it to detach from her, put her in your past and move on to someone who will love you the same way you love.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Jay375 said:


> It’s not that, it’s that the majority of posters aren’t even reading. They keep saying “serve her with divorce papers!” without even reading my post saying my state requires a 1 YEAR SEPARATION before even filing!


Is there any evidence that your wife has any sex whatsoever? Does she masturbate? Does she have any feelings of affection towards you? 

It sounds like you're heading for divorce and the separation is simply a technicality. 

That being said I would say screw it do Vegas have fun. Bring a little money for the casino, maybe play some blackjack together, go see the show Absinthe (Hilarious and somewhat erotic) and go ahead and hit a strip club. Great restaurants in Vegas also. Read reviews on the clubs some are topless only some a fully nude, some have separate rooms with male dancers if she would be interested in that. Based on my experience women tend to be turned on by the female stripper experience if it's the right atmosphere. Private dances in the VIP are kind of a waste of money, my wife and I enjoy just sitting and watching the show, the show isn't just the strippers, sitting and observing the patrons can be a real study in human behavior, quite entertaining. If we want real lap dances we have strippers come to our hotel suite. We typically call ahead and make a reservation and do bottle service, it can be pricey but they comp the cover and you get much better service in general. My wife and I always have amazing sex after a strip club. One last fun exciting time time before calling it quits. 

Get some text messages from her showing the strip club is her idea. Call it an insurance policy.


----------



## ElOtro

Jay375 said:


> I declined the strip club.


Wise


----------



## Evinrude58

Jay375 said:


> What do you think the endgame is?


Endgame: divorce.
Present game: get you to to do undignified things with a stripper, takes pics to show her friends or lawyer. Or simply to throw back in your face when you find out she’s been cheating for a long time.

pretty obvious. Oh, and your wife is a liar.


----------



## Evinrude58

Jay375 said:


> It’s not that, it’s that the majority of posters aren’t even reading. They keep saying “serve her with divorce papers!” without even reading my post saying my state requires a 1 YEAR SEPARATION before even filing!


It doesn’t matter, you can file the papers and do the financial side if the divorce NOW. I had to be separated a year, too. Had I waited until the year separation to file, I’d have been screwed, as will you.


----------



## lmucamac

Tell her no. Then discuss this in your couples therapy.


----------



## Young at Heart

Jay375 said:


> .......*She said her main reason for wanting to go to the strip club is things have been too uptight between us, and she just wants to do something fun to shake us up a bit.* If six months from now she has a new guy then I can say you all were right, but it doesn’t feel that way right now. I’ve had access to her phone and there’s nothing in there except a person who is very confused and is seeking help from her close girl friends and a spiritual leader. I think it’s much more likely she just doesn’t know which way this will all blow, and I know staying with me right now doesn’t excite her. *We’ve been “on our way back” for 2-3 months now*, but it just hasn’t been enough. We still have bad days that bring back all of our problems, followed by a great day. *It’s a roller coaster*, and along with her other past issues shes fighting, *she’s worn out and emotionally depleted.* I think she views separation as the only way to get herself back—for us possibly or not. However that will work. *We have two kids 9 and 12*. We’re talking about *doing a nesting arrangement where we’d swap weeks at the apartment, kids would stay in the house, and we’d have a date night on Saturdays, followed by family day together on Sundays* as we work through all of this. *Boundaries clearly set with the therapist, no infidelity, no dating,etc.*


It sounds like you, your wife, and your therapist have a pretty solid plan of action lined up for your separation. If things are this organized for the therapy and you and your wife are committed to saving your marriage, then you and your wife should have a pretty good shot at coming out of this a strong couple.

I can also understand how she feel's overwhelmed by all that she is having to mentally deal with during therapy plus deal with two children at home. Having some just her time, is probably very important to her. You might ask her if during her week with the kids at the house, if you can drop by and take the kids out for dinner or for a movie, so she has a little more free time to think and recover.

In my case we were empty nesters, which made some of the juggling of time for therapy and homework from the therapy, much easier.

The sex therapist who helped save my sex starved marriage, told my wife and me that the best sex is playful and exploratory with no pressure to perform. She likened it to having fun with your best friend in grade school at recess. 

Part of her desire for the strip club maybe to share a playful, non-threatening, arousal experience that does not directly involve or threaten her. It may also be a recognition of the physical/emotional suffering she feels she has put you through. I think most women view men's sexuality as not being as emotional and bonding oriented as most men do. When I was in a sex starved marriage, my wife thought sex was not a big deal and I viewed it as the key to our emotional bonding.

If you do plan on going to the strip club talk it over with her, set boundaries for both yourself and her, but most importantly give each other a "safe word" so that if something scares either of you or triggers a negative memory on her part, the action can be stopped immediately.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Young at Heart said:


> It sounds like you, your wife, and your therapist have a pretty solid plan of action lined up for your separation. If things are this organized for the therapy and you and your wife are committed to saving your marriage, then you and your wife should have a pretty good shot at coming out of this a strong couple.
> 
> I can also understand how she feel's overwhelmed by all that she is having to mentally deal with during therapy plus deal with two children at home. Having some just her time, is probably very important to her. You might ask her if during her week with the kids at the house, if you can drop by and take the kids out for dinner or for a movie, so she has a little more free time to think and recover.
> 
> In my case we were empty nesters, which made some of the juggling of time for therapy and homework from the therapy, much easier.
> 
> The sex therapist who helped save my sex starved marriage, told my wife and me that the best sex is playful and exploratory with no pressure to perform. She likened it to having fun with your best friend in grade school at recess.
> 
> Part of her desire for the strip club maybe to share a playful, non-threatening, arousal experience that does not directly involve or threaten her. It may also be a recognition of the physical/emotional suffering she feels she has put you through. I think most women view men's sexuality as not being as emotional and bonding oriented as most men do. When I was in a sex starved marriage, my wife thought sex was not a big deal and I viewed it as the key to our emotional bonding.
> 
> If you do plan on going to the strip club talk it over with her, set boundaries for both yourself and her, but most importantly give each other a "safe word" so that if something scares either of you or triggers a negative memory on her part, the action can be stopped immediately.
> 
> Good luck to you.


Really.

If remotely applicable the sex therapist would be saying ok W, it would be good for you two to be playing around at home, now, and having no pressure fun sex. At home, now, together, while you two do whatevers. Strip club, sky diving, etc.


----------



## DudeInProgress

Young at Heart said:


> It sounds like you, your wife, and your therapist have a pretty solid plan of action lined up for your separation. If things are this organized for the therapy and you and your wife are committed to saving your marriage, then you and your wife should have a pretty good shot at coming out of this a strong couple.
> 
> I can also understand how she feel's overwhelmed by all that she is having to mentally deal with during therapy plus deal with two children at home. Having some just her time, is probably very important to her. You might ask her if during her week with the kids at the house, if you can drop by and take the kids out for dinner or for a movie, so she has a little more free time to think and recover.
> 
> In my case we were empty nesters, which made some of the juggling of time for therapy and homework from the therapy, much easier.
> 
> The sex therapist who helped save my sex starved marriage, told my wife and me that the best sex is playful and exploratory with no pressure to perform. She likened it to having fun with your best friend in grade school at recess.
> 
> Part of her desire for the strip club maybe to share a playful, non-threatening, arousal experience that does not directly involve or threaten her. It may also be a recognition of the physical/emotional suffering she feels she has put you through. I think most women view men's sexuality as not being as emotional and bonding oriented as most men do. When I was in a sex starved marriage, my wife thought sex was not a big deal and I viewed it as the key to our emotional bonding.
> 
> If you do plan on going to the strip club talk it over with her, set boundaries for both yourself and her, but most importantly give each other a "safe word" so that if something scares either of you or triggers a negative memory on her part, the action can be stopped immediately.
> 
> Good luck to you.


Are you serious? It’s a great plan for his wife (at his expense), it’s a horribly stupid plan for him.


----------



## Jay375

Well…give yourself credit TAM, you’re right. Something hasn’t seemed quite right. Found she’s been texting her Ex boyfriend despite a month ago saying (in front of the therapist) that ended and it was only a friendship, but she’s ending it so we can move forward. Never ended. Ever. In fact, they’ve texted 68 times this week including 3-4 times DURING our date night last night.

My wife could tell something was up, but still lied multiple times and bent the story. At this point she’s just a liar.

So yeah, at this point I’m just moving foreword with a separation “no strings attached”. I guess I could give her the ultimatum of work it out under our roof or separate for divorce, but not sure I can ever really trust her at this point. I’d assume the second she’s separated this can all go physical (he lives 5 hours away) if it hasn’t at some point somehow already. I think the comment about “having a man wait on her for sex” is probably about her Ex and NOT me in any way, shape or form,

When things were uneasy last night and she knew I wasn’t buying her BS, she got naked and wanted to mess around (no sex). Even though that’s a clear violation of what the therapist said, suddenly it was ok with her. “I won’t tell!” It’s all arbitrary. Probably saving herself for the next guy.


----------



## Loves Coffee

Jay375 said:


> Well…give yourself credit TAM, you’re right. Something hasn’t seemed quite right. Found she’s been texting her Ex boyfriend despite a month ago saying (in front of the therapist) that ended and it was only a friendship, but she’s ending it so we can move forward. Never ended. Ever. In fact, they’ve texted 68 times this week including 3-4 times DURING our date night last night.
> 
> My wife could tell something was up, but still lied multiple times and bent the story. At this point she’s just a liar.
> 
> So yeah, at this point I’m just moving foreword with a separation “no strings attached”. I guess I could give her the ultimatum of work it out under our roof or separate for divorce, but not sure I can ever really trust her at this point. I’d assume the second she’s separated this can all go physical (he lives 5 hours away) if it hasn’t at some point somehow already. I think the comment about “having a man wait on her for sex” is probably about her Ex and NOT me in any way, shape or form,
> 
> When things were uneasy last night and she knew I wasn’t buying her BS, she got naked and wanted to mess around (no sex). Even though that’s a clear violation of what the therapist said, suddenly it was ok with her. “I won’t tell!” It’s all arbitrary. Probably saving herself for the next guy.


Thanks for having the courage to come back and say that. You should stick around here and keep reading and posting. It will help you with what you're going through and you will grow better for the next woman who will treat you right. 

I wouldn't recommend giving her an ultimatum at this point. She is no longer to be trusted. She's not even trying to paper it over with tons of sex with you. Best just to walk away and let her deal with her own consequences.


----------



## Evinrude58

Don’t ever think that she’s the only one you can love. You’ll find there’s plenty of women that aren’t deceitful wenches that you can have a great time with, and don’t have to marry them and put up with their bs.

Sorry you’re going through this, but you’ll see it as a gift one day.


----------



## Rob_1

Jay375 said:


> So yeah, at this point I’m just moving foreword with a separation “no strings attached”. I guess I could give her the ultimatum of work it out under our roof or separate for divorce


I can see why your wife had not respect for you whatsoever as a man.

After all the disrespect, gaslighting, lying and emotional transfer of her affections, you are still being a man that shows no self respect or dignity by still considering to work it out. 

Work what out?? Really? Don't tell us that is because you love her, because you loving her has nothing to do with your apparently sick form of love. I would say that that's the love of a pushover, a weak dude with codependency issues where his pride, dignity and self respect are being pushed aside in order to grip that little last hope to keep her. That's sad dude.

The moment you found out that she never stopped communicating with her ex that was the moment you were supposed to tell her to go to hell. That the marriage is over. To move on from that very moment, but not, here you are "guessing that you could give her an ultimatum", pathetic.


----------



## Tdbo

Jay375 said:


> Well…give yourself credit TAM, you’re right. Something hasn’t seemed quite right. Found she’s been texting her Ex boyfriend despite a month ago saying (in front of the therapist) that ended and it was only a friendship, but she’s ending it so we can move forward. Never ended. Ever. In fact, they’ve texted 68 times this week including 3-4 times DURING our date night last night.
> 
> My wife could tell something was up, but still lied multiple times and bent the story. At this point she’s just a liar.
> 
> So yeah, at this point I’m just moving foreword with a separation “no strings attached”. I guess I could give her the ultimatum of work it out under our roof or separate for divorce, but not sure I can ever really trust her at this point. I’d assume the second she’s separated this can all go physical (he lives 5 hours away) if it hasn’t at some point somehow already. I think the comment about “having a man wait on her for sex” is probably about her Ex and NOT me in any way, shape or form,
> 
> When things were uneasy last night and she knew I wasn’t buying her BS, she got naked and wanted to mess around (no sex). Even though that’s a clear violation of what the therapist said, suddenly it was ok with her. “I won’t tell!” It’s all arbitrary. Probably saving herself for the next guy.


When they show you what they truly are, believe them.
Implement the 180.
Get her in her apartment, and have her served with paperwork without notice.
Everything changes when you decide that you are mad as hell, and you aren't going to take it anymore.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Jay375 said:


> Well…give yourself credit TAM, you’re right. Something hasn’t seemed quite right. Found she’s been texting her Ex boyfriend despite a month ago saying (in front of the therapist) that ended and it was only a friendship, but she’s ending it so we can move forward. Never ended. Ever. In fact, they’ve texted 68 times this week including 3-4 times DURING our date night last night.
> 
> My wife could tell something was up, but still lied multiple times and bent the story. At this point she’s just a liar.
> 
> So yeah, at this point I’m just moving foreword with a separation “no strings attached”. I guess I could give her the ultimatum of work it out under our roof or separate for divorce, but not sure I can ever really trust her at this point. I’d assume the second she’s separated this can all go physical (he lives 5 hours away) if it hasn’t at some point somehow already. I think the comment about “having a man wait on her for sex” is probably about her Ex and NOT me in any way, shape or form,
> 
> When things were uneasy last night and she knew I wasn’t buying her BS, she got naked and wanted to mess around (no sex). Even though that’s a clear violation of what the therapist said, suddenly it was ok with her. “I won’t tell!” It’s all arbitrary. Probably saving herself for the next guy.


Is the Ex boyfriend married?


----------



## Jay375

happyhusband0005 said:


> Is the Ex boyfriend married?


Yes with kids.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Jay375 said:


> Well…give yourself credit TAM, you’re right. Something hasn’t seemed quite right. Found she’s been texting her Ex boyfriend despite a month ago saying (in front of the therapist) that ended and it was only a friendship, but she’s ending it so we can move forward. Never ended. Ever. In fact, they’ve texted 68 times this week including 3-4 times DURING our date night last night.
> 
> My wife could tell something was up, but still lied multiple times and bent the story. At this point she’s just a liar.
> 
> So yeah, at this point I’m just moving foreword with a separation “no strings attached”. I guess I could give her the ultimatum of work it out under our roof or separate for divorce, but not sure I can ever really trust her at this point. I’d assume the second she’s separated this can all go physical (he lives 5 hours away) if it hasn’t at some point somehow already. I think the comment about “having a man wait on her for sex” is probably about her Ex and NOT me in any way, shape or form,
> 
> When things were uneasy last night and she knew I wasn’t buying her BS, she got naked and wanted to mess around (no sex). Even though that’s a clear violation of what the therapist said, suddenly it was ok with her. “I won’t tell!” It’s all arbitrary. Probably saving herself for the next guy.


Sorry man. Kudos for addressing and updating. Everyone has nothing but good wishes for you. It will get easier now that you know a bit more. 

Easy to say hard to do, we know, but take heart. Many here have seen this before and are here for you on what to expect, and moral support.

You'll be ok.


----------



## *Deidre*

Jay375 said:


> Well…give yourself credit TAM, you’re right. Something hasn’t seemed quite right. Found she’s been texting her Ex boyfriend despite a month ago saying (in front of the therapist) that ended and it was only a friendship, but she’s ending it so we can move forward. Never ended. Ever. In fact, they’ve texted 68 times this week including 3-4 times DURING our date night last night.
> 
> My wife could tell something was up, but still lied multiple times and bent the story. At this point she’s just a liar.
> 
> So yeah, at this point I’m just moving foreword with a separation “no strings attached”. I guess I could give her the ultimatum of work it out under our roof or separate for divorce, but not sure I can ever really trust her at this point. I’d assume the second she’s separated this can all go physical (he lives 5 hours away) if it hasn’t at some point somehow already. I think the comment about “having a man wait on her for sex” is probably about her Ex and NOT me in any way, shape or form,
> 
> When things were uneasy last night and she knew I wasn’t buying her BS, she got naked and wanted to mess around (no sex). Even though that’s a clear violation of what the therapist said, suddenly it was ok with her. “I won’t tell!” It’s all arbitrary. Probably saving herself for the next guy.


Gross. But not all surprised. I'm sorry you find yourself here, but it's good to finally see what you're dealing with, and I would separate just to get away from her. You had to find your own way to this point, and now there's no turning back. I hope you don't turn back. You are just a form of payment for her lifestyle, and she wants to date others. And all that stuff about past trauma was to keep you away from her sexually.

Hoping that you stay strong and get to a much better place soon. 🙏


----------



## *Deidre*

One more thought to add, I think now knowing this, the strip club idea has to do with pretending like she still cares about your ''happiness.'' So you're not looking at what she's been up to. As if throwing you at a stripper to shut you up, is going to make you happy. Your wife doesn't know you at all, and that's partially because it seems like she has literally consumed the marriage. 🙄 That's why you should leave, this entire thing shows you that she doesn't know you at all, and definitely wants to just use you to buy her time. That's a painful thing to realize.


----------



## happyhusband0005

Jay375 said:


> Yes with kids.


So your wife was planning on having a sexual relationship with this guy and stopping her sexual relationship with you. I wonder if he was planning to do the same. Maybe talk to his wife at some point and compare notes. That is some next level messed upness. Definitely file for divorce now move out now to get that 1 year clock rolling.


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## umbluu

Sorry to hear that... apparently I was wrong...


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## Loves Coffee

She has no regard to what marriage is even supposed to mean. Her ex bf has his own wife who he's undoubtedly sleeping with. She doesn't care about that, but needed to cut her husband (Jay375) off to somehow possibly rationalize what she is doing in her messed up head.

Their kids will now grow up knowing what kind of person she is and how she tore their home down with her own hands. She can't hide who she is now.


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## oldshirt

Jay375 said:


> Yes with kids.


Contact his wife and send her the proof of their involvement. 

He will be so busy trying to save his own azz he will throw your wife under the bus. 

Plus it's just the right thing to do so she is aware of what is going on in her own home and family.


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## oldshirt

I'm arriving a little late to the party but am fairly caught up. 

This whole stripper thing is what is known as a Loyalty Test. It was a test to see if you would take the bait and have fun with the stripper which would then be used against you not only at home and with the therapist in showing what a bad guy you are, but she may have even used it against you in court saying you were playing with another woman's boobies. 

And she would have used it for justification for getting with the OM. 

The fact that you did not immediately see this for the test that it was and that you even considered it is concerning. 

My fear here is that you are a novice pool player playing against a pool shark here. 

Even if you can not file for divorce for a year, it would certainly behoove you to get an attorney and follow the attorney's guidence through this separation and possible divorce as she seems to be several steps ahead of you and playing a more tactical game.


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## re16

So now that you know she is up to nefarious activity with another man (what you found is likely the tip of the iceberg), you should realize that all the therapy sessions and 'working on us' discussions were a complete farse, orchestrated by her.

You need to file and protect whatever funds and assets you have. You do not have to wait a year just to file, that is not how any state works.

Your wife is deceitful to you about her relationship(s) with other men.... that is an end of story kinda of statement, and it is all you need to know. Your marriage is done.

Sorry this happened to you... but you need to take action.


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## Mr.Married

The problem is that just like everyone that comes to the forum you believe your situation is “different and special.” You believe No one could possibly understand what is happening because we don’t know you and your wife. Well the truth is that your situation is not special at all and is right out of the same BS script of the cheaters handbook. The only thing special about your situation is that everyone could so clearly see how you we being strung along like a donkey wanting a carrot. Your therapist is an idiot just like I said in my last post.

WAKE UP AND STOP PLAYING THE FOOL.

Who cares if your state requires a one year separation…. Like that is even some kind of excuse. Get the separation started now !!

READ POST 26 again and go get that rusty fork ready.


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## She'sStillGotIt

*


Jay375 said:



I think you nailed it. And I think she sees separation as her chance to get on her own feet, see if she misses me, and if she doesn’t then she can move forward with divorce. If she does miss me, I’ll always be there. And that’s EXACTLY how she sees this. I’m not going anywhere, I’ll never be unfaithful, I’m a loyal dog that will always come home.

Click to expand...

*Find your dignity for God's sake.

Why would ANYONE degrade themselves by agreeing to be someone's *default option*? That's exactly what you'd be. If your wife doesn't find the "bigger, better deal" once you're separated and she's out living the single life, you're good with lowering yourself to being her consolation prize if she's not able to find a suitable upgrade and she settles for you? 

_*Seriously*_?

Jeez. Find your self-respect, OP.


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## ABHale

I believe she is feeling guilty for not having sex with you. She is trying to make up for it.

Edited after reading to the end.

There was a wife that stopped having sex with her husband because she didn’t want to cheat on her affair partner.


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## Jimi007

happyhusband0005 said:


> I generally agree with people that it sounds like she is setting you up for trouble or is trying to set a mental moral high ground for herself because she feels bad that she has fallen out of love with you.
> 
> The other possibilities are.
> 
> 1. She loves you like a friend but she has no sex drive and wants to do the strip club thing to test out how she would feel seeing you getting touchy and turned on by other women. Then she can see if she would really be ok with you getting your sexual needs met elsewhere.
> 
> 2. She thinks seeing you with another women will cause her to feel some jealousy which might reawaken the romantic love she once had.
> 
> 3. She is actually into women and the strip club is for her. Hence her thinking she may never want sex with you again. She might be slowly coming out of the closet.
> 
> 4. It's Vegas, people do wild stuff in Vegas.
> 
> Generally it sounds like your marriage is over so you could go a bunch of different directions.
> 
> 1. Pull the cord and accept it's over and get on with ending it for real now.
> 
> 2. Try a live in separation, give each other a lot of space with limited interaction and communication. (If your living situation allows this)
> 
> 3. Say screw it, go to Vegas, hit the strip club see what happens. If you do this get a table near but not on the stage, don't do any private dances alone, if she pushes you to go get a private dance only do it if she goes with you. Be aware clubs in Vegas get very pricey and some will scam you. My wife and I went one time got a 3 song private dance got done and was presented with a bill for $700. Complete scam run by the vip manager. Strip clubs as a couple can be fun and sexy, but I don't see it as a legit way to fix marriage problems.


Did you actually pay the 700 ?


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## Exit37

ABHale said:


> There was a wife that stopped having sex with her husband because she didn’t want to cheat on her affair partner.


I believe this is what's going on -- she will get naked but won't have sex because the would be cheating on her (married, ex boyfriend) AP. 

OP, you need to not separate, you need to move to D immediately. She is not worth it. And stop treating her so well. She is cheating on you.


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## happyhusband0005

Jimi007 said:


> Did you actually pay the 700 ?


Yah the way they ran it didn't really have a choice other than get into a whole scene and then still have to pay it.


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## DLC

She said she was done but she won’t give up on the marriage. And she you want to see get the temptation from other women (strippers).

my take is she wants out, but she doesn’t want to do the work (to initiate the divorce), so she want you mess up, then either you do the work or she has all the rights to yell at you and put up a list of demand.


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## Vin0770

Been to a number of strip clubs usually for the bachelor party kind of thing but have never had a lap dance, or gone off to the private area for a private lap dance so I can only guess people go to those areas for a happy ending. So if my wife suggested one it would be all fun and see what kind of naughtiness she has on her mind. The naughtiness would be something that would be good for both. 

So this should be a fun spice up your night evening but not a good idea in the OP scenario.


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## SunCMars

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Find your dignity for God's sake.
> 
> Why would ANYONE degrade themselves by agreeing to be someone's *default option*? That's exactly what you'd be. If your wife doesn't find the "bigger, better deal" once you're separated and she's out living the single life, you're good with lowering yourself to being her consolation prize if she's not able to find a suitable upgrade and she settles for you?
> 
> _*Seriously*_?
> 
> Jeez. Find your self-respect, OP.


Jeez, too!


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