# When to stay just for kids?



## Feeling lost and lonely

How much would you go through for your kids just to stay married for them?


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## Hope1964

I never would. Kids are FAR better off when parents split up and improve their situation than when they stay together and be miserable. I would way rather teach my kids not to 'put up with' any crap than to be a doormat. Besides, I am perfectly capable of taking excellent care of them by myself. Was capable, rather - they're grown now.


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## LadybugMomma

I put up with as much as I could tolerate until I could tolerate no more. I ended it when I realized the negative effect my marriage was creating for my children. They were seeing that it's okay for a man to do nothing but get high and play video games all day. I wanted SO much better for them and the man who was supposed to help show them how life is supposed to be, failed miserably. I'd rather have the struggle doing it alone than having a man sit around and be a slacker.


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## Ynot

Never!
Staying together for the sake of the kids is just teaching the kids to believe that unhappiness and dysfunction is the norm. Kids are very perceptive and will accept your (and/or your SO's) settling as their own. It is far better for kids to see parents who have concluded that they are just not meant for each other and have moved on, than to see their parents wallowing in quiet desperation for the remainder of their lives.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

How long to try and work things out?

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## GuyInColorado

I stayed until my kids were a little older (4 and 5) and then bailed. I tried a couple of years, several marriage counselors, etc. But I knew it was never going to work out. When she told me she was staying only until the kids were out of high school, I started my exit plan. Separated for 6 months, divorced for 1 month, never been this happy!!


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## Hope1964

In February you had money for a lawyer and were going to divorce her. Why are you still with her? She's a lying cheating piece of crap. On what planet are your kids better off being mothered by HER?


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## WonkyNinja

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> How long to try and work things out?


Until you can look yourself in a mirror and know that you made every effort that you could.

My D knew that we were going to split up before we did. At least now she gets to see one normal marital relationship with two people who freely show affection to each other and *always* treat each other with respect.

It would kill me to see her miserable in her future marriage due to having expectations set by what she used to see as a relationship.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Ynot said:


> Never!
> Staying together for the sake of the kids is just teaching the kids to believe that unhappiness and dysfunction is the norm. Kids are very perceptive and will accept your (and/or your SO's) settling as their own. It is far better for kids to see parents who have concluded that they are just not meant for each other and have moved on, than to see their parents wallowing in quiet desperation for the remainder of their lives.


When I was in high school (too many years ago-lol), I wanted my parents just to divorce. I told them to just get it over with already. I knew that they weren't a match for each other and dragging it out until I was done with school (I'm the youngest) was just making things worse. I didn't even learn about the affair until after the divorce. The tension in the house was awful and that bled into my school life. 

After a certain age, they pick up on everything. Teach them to try their hardest to make it work, but after a while, it's okay to move on if it doesn't work. Everyone deserves happiness.


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## Hope1964

I cannot fathom where this idea comes from that it's better for kids to have married parents NO MATTER WHAT. Why people think that way really does confound me. If your wife cheats on you and tells you to just shut up about it because she doesn't want to hear about it, that's a pretty clear sign that she has ZERO respect for you, and WILL do it again. At that point, you're just teaching your kids that it's ok to be a doormat.


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## MJJEAN

Hope1964 said:


> I cannot fathom where this idea comes from that it's better for kids to have married parents NO MATTER WHAT. Why people think that way really does confound me. If your wife cheats on you and tells you to just shut up about it because she doesn't want to hear about it, that's a pretty clear sign that she has ZERO respect for you, and WILL do it again. At that point, you're just teaching your kids that it's ok to be a doormat.


Why? .

Some time ago, some preliminary research suggested kids do markedly better in two parent homes. The stats showed that children of divorce had higher rates of teen pregnancy, higher high school drop out rates, broken marriages of their own, trouble with the law, etc.

More in depth studies that adjusted for income and parental involvement found that children of divorce and children who have intact parental marriages are nearly identical.

Turned out, income and parental involvement were more important to proper development than married parents. But the idea that only two parent households will do was already in circulation and accepted as fact by pretty much everyone.


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## MJJEAN

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> How much would you go through for your kids just to stay married for them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


I briefly believed staying an an infidelity ridden sham marriage was best for DD1 and, later, DD2. I realized I was only showing them a sh!t version of an adult romantic relationship that they would think is normal and emulate when they grew up. I also realied I was less effective as a parent because I was dealing with my exH's bullsh!t and drama, was unhappy and much less patient and randomly affectionate than I could/should have been. Not to mention I was completely miserable and damn near suicidal.

I left when DD1 was 6 and DD2 was 1. Best decision I could have made.



Feeling lost and lonely said:


> How long to try and work things out?
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


I sort of half-azzed "tried" for a nearly a year after exH and I had our Come to Jesus talk. But, honestly, I knew it wouldn't work.


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## wilson

You should only consider staying if you and your spouse can truly act friendly towards one another. If you're going to stay for the kids, at least make it look like you like each other.

Furthermore, there should be specific reason your kids need both parents in the house. Things like emotional issues, developmental problems, physical disabilities, etc. Things that require more effort than typical and would greatly stress a parent who is single. 

However, there can be significant, negative consequences to your emotional well-being if you say in a bad marriage. So even if you can maintain a good relationship with your spouse, you may get more and more depressed living in an unsatisfying relationship and knowing the years are ticking by until the timing is right to divorce.

It's not enough to stay just so that the kids can have two parents in the house. There should be strong reasons to stay other than something like it's easier to get them to their sports practices.


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## Red Sonja

I stayed for my kid until she was settled into her first year at university. The reason was that she was orphaned twice by the time she landed with us through a family tragedy. She was diagnosed with Reactive Attachment Disorder while in our care and, I knew she would not survive another abandonment incident, i.e. the breakup of her third family.

I went through 15 years of hellish behavior from my husband (with occasional periods of peace) and, have been out now for several years however I would do it again for my daughter. My choice and it paid off for her in the long-term.


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## Anon1111

wilson said:


> You should only consider staying if you and your spouse can truly act friendly towards one another. If you're going to stay for the kids, at least make it look like you like each other.
> 
> Furthermore, there should be specific reason your kids need both parents in the house. Things like emotional issues, developmental problems, physical disabilities, etc. Things that require more effort than typical and would greatly stress a parent who is single.
> 
> However, there can be significant, negative consequences to your emotional well-being if you say in a bad marriage. So even if you can maintain a good relationship with your spouse, you may get more and more depressed living in an unsatisfying relationship and knowing the years are ticking by until the timing is right to divorce.
> 
> It's not enough to stay just so that the kids can have two parents in the house. There should be strong reasons to stay other than something like it's easier to get them to their sports practices.


this.

not all family circumstances are the same.

it's all about weighing the cost/benefit of splitting vs staying

it will depend on the individual facts


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## Feeling lost and lonely

We have twins that are 5 and our daughter has autism.

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## Hope1964

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> We have twins that are 5 and our daughter has autism.


So?

Can you please answer the question about what happened after you said you were going to hire a lawyer in February?


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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> We have twins that are 5 and our daughter has autism.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


it is very common for marriages to suffer in this context

however, children of this profile need the support of both parents consistently on a daily basis more than most

consider that you and your spouse may have a shared goal of doing what is best for your children, regardless of your other issues

this is a powerful commonality

leverage this as a way forward


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Hope1964 said:


> So?
> 
> Can you please answer the question about what happened after you said you were going to hire a lawyer in February?


I now have a retainer with a lawyer and the fee for the court but was asked for one last try including marriage counseling and if this try don't help then much less fighting over the kids, money and house.
I see the house as the kids house not really ours and I can afford it for them if we can agree on things.
I am asking this question about staying for the kids because I can not see anyway that a last try would work even after our counseling start in two weeks.
Trying to work on things have been very difficult a lot of up and downs.

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## Hope1964

Who asked you for one more try - her?? Honestly, why bother?


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Her father asked because of the kids and he knows some of what has happened between us. I respect him like i do my own dad so I try a last time. Counceling was her idea.

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## MJJEAN

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> Her father asked because of the kids and he knows some of what has happened between us. I respect him like i do my own dad so I try a last time. Counceling was her idea.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk



Her father doesn't have to be married to her. Her father also only knows "some" of what has been going on. In short, her father can take his opinions and desires and stuff them where the sun don't shine. What matters here is you and the kids. Not her. Not her family.

Would you be better off divorced? Sounds like it.

Would the kids be better off if you divorced? As long as the bills get paid and you're both involved parents.

Would another try work? You said yourself that you don't think so. What do you think marriage counseling will do? Make the divorce easier? Maybe. Or maybe you spend the time and money on the counseling, end up separating anyway, and still argue about division of assets.

If you go into counseling, I'd put a time limit on it. No more than 6-9 months before a final decision is made.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Very true about what her dad thinks about it really don't matter. My employer has an employee assistant program that will pay for some sessions. Her dad has a lot of influence on her so he will help me get her not to fight it.


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## tropicalbeachiwish

MJJEAN said:


> If you go into counseling, I'd put a time limit on it. No more than 6-9 months before a final decision is made.


If you haven't yet tried counseling, you should consider it. If it doesn't work out, what are the chances that you regret that you tried counseling? Probably none. What are the chances that you regret that you didn't try counseling? Probably good. At least if you try it and it still doesn't work out, then you can say that you tried everything.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Thank you everyone for the good advice.

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## MJJEAN

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> Very true about what her dad thinks about it really don't matter. My employer has an employee assistant program that will pay for some sessions. Her dad has a lot of influence on her so he will help me get her not to fight it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


Unless her dad is going to go to counseling with you and force her to be totally honest AND to put in the work outside of counseling, there's no point in using his influence to get her to show up for the appointment.

When in counseling, both parties must be completely honest with themselves, their partner, and the therapist. They must be willing to take their lumps and to put in the work outside the office or it's completely useless.

If she doesn't want to go, isn't capable of that kind of honesty, or doesn't want to do the work at home, you're just wasting time spinning your wheels.

And it does go both ways. You also have to be willing to be brutally honest with yourself, her, and the therapist and you have to really want to save the marriage.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

She want to go to counseling but good point about being completely honest, she may have a problem with that.

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## Hope1964

OK, just stop and think about this for a moment.

HER FATHER thinks you two should stay together and do counseling, and you think he has enough influence over her to make your marriage work??? Do you see how twisted that is?

First of all, tell her to tell her father EXACTLY what she did. ALL of it, including everything she hasn't told you (because guaranteed, there's more). Then see what her father says.

You REALLY need to go see that lawyer again and get the D going. If she actually does smarten up, then you can stop it. She will know you really mean it then.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

He only has enough influence to get her not to fight the divorce. Any part of trying to save marriage has to come from both of us.

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## MJJEAN

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> She want to go to counseling but good point about being completely honest, she may have a problem with that.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


If you really, really, want to save your marriage and spend the rest of your life with this woman, including when the kids are grown, then I say go to counseling. 

Once in counseling, you have the ability to call her on her bullsh!t. Use it. If she omits certain details, you can always add them. 

And, yes, I'd tell her dad everything you know and everything you suspect. That way, if/when the divorce papers get filed, he'll understand your position.


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## Hope1964

Hope1964 said:


> tell her to tell her father EXACTLY what she did. ALL of it, including everything she hasn't told you (because guaranteed, there's more).


You REALLY need to do this. If she refuses, you have your answer - she is NOT willing to work on things.


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## Anon1111

MJJEAN said:


> Would the kids be better off if you divorced? As long as the bills get paid and you're both involved parents.


I admit I don't know the particulars of OP's story, but as the parent of kids with autism, it is a bit more complicated than this

it depends on OP's child's profile, but many autistic children cannot easily handle the back and forth between households that a divorce would require

obviously, typical kids suffer from this somewhat as well, but it is magnified (sometimes to the point of being unworkable) in OP's situation.

if he divorces, OP may be looking at a situation where what is in the best interest of the child is 100% custody with the primary caregiver parent, with only visitation rights for OP (if he is the non-primary caregiver)

that is a tough pill to swallow


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## MJJEAN

Anon1111 said:


> I admit I don't know the particulars of OP's story, but as the parent of kids with autism, it is a bit more complicated than this
> 
> it depends on OP's child's profile, but many autistic children cannot easily handle the back and forth between households that a divorce would require
> 
> obviously, typical kids suffer from this somewhat as well, but it is magnified (sometimes to the point of being unworkable) in OP's situation.
> 
> if he divorces, OP may be looking at a situation where what is in the best interest of the child is 100% custody with the primary caregiver parent, with only visitation rights for OP (if he is the non-primary caregiver)
> 
> that is a tough pill to swallow


Divorce doesn't necessarily mean the two house shuffle. I've heard of parents taking shifts in the former marital home so that the kids can stay put. 

Do your Autistic kids have an extreme attachment to routine? When the routine changes, do they adjust after a time? I've only known a few children with Autism that were from divorced families. They seemed very big on routine and would become unglued when the routine was changed for any reason, but they did adjust after a time. Also, taking comfort items to the new place was a big deal. Real big. and by comfort items, I mean their bedding and toys/stuffed lovey/whatever.


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## wilson

And at age 5, they would probably adapt eventually well to a new routine with two houses. It might be a little tough at first, but they would get a new routine.

I've known parents in the military who have an autistic child and the child adapts when they move to a new location. It doesn't really even seem that much different than a kid would typically handle it. As long as he still has his favorite foods and can watch his shows, he doesn't seem too affected by their moves. (I understand all autistic kids aren't all the same, so your situation might be different.)


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## Wazza

I don't know your back story. 

Mine is that my wife had a protracted affair, i stayed for kids, and over time we put the marriage back together. 

That was 25 years ago,we are still together and got through the problems. So it is possible, sometimes, for some people.

The earlier discussions about research that shows children from two parent families do better.....I have read that, and seen a fair hit of research that supports it. I've not seen any that debunks it, or demonstrates that other factors like parental involvement is the real key. So I tend to believe the original conclusion, that if you can make a two parent home work, it's better. 

For me, the key would be whether I could have a constructive relationship with my spouse for the sake of the kids. That's not totally within my control. For example, if my wife had continued the affair, or had others, it would have reached a point of being untenable. 

The converse actually happened for us. I think both of us are much better at relationships because of the work we put in during the bad years. But again, I could not have done that alone. It happened in part because of who my wife is. Also because we both have an old fashioned view of marriage. 

It really comes down to the most awful trade off, where you are balancing your own heart and happiness agains the best outcome for your kids. Nobody can do that for you, and neither choice is guaranteed to be a success.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Hope1964 said:


> You REALLY need to do this. If she refuses, you have your answer - she is NOT willing to work on things.


Good way to see what she is willing to do to save our marriage.

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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> I admit I don't know the particulars of OP's story, but as the parent of kids with autism, it is a bit more complicated than this
> 
> it depends on OP's child's profile, but many autistic children cannot easily handle the back and forth between households that a divorce would require
> 
> obviously, typical kids suffer from this somewhat as well, but it is magnified (sometimes to the point of being unworkable) in OP's situation.
> 
> if he divorces, OP may be looking at a situation where what is in the best interest of the child is 100% custody with the primary caregiver parent, with only visitation rights for OP (if he is the non-primary caregiver)
> 
> that is a tough pill to swallow


I would try to get the kids 100% if I could work things out to be able too. 
But our kids still need strong involvement from both especially our daughter.

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## Feeling lost and lonely

MJJEAN said:


> Divorce doesn't necessarily mean the two house shuffle. I've heard of parents taking shifts in the former marital home so that the kids can stay put.
> 
> Do your Autistic kids have an extreme attachment to routine? When the routine changes, do they adjust after a time? I've only known a few children with Autism that were from divorced families. They seemed very big on routine and would become unglued when the routine was changed for any reason, but they did adjust after a time. Also, taking comfort items to the new place was a big deal. Real big. and by comfort items, I mean their bedding and toys/stuffed lovey/whatever.


I have thought about that letting them stay in the house. 
Because of school we want to keep them in same district as they have been very good support for both kids and seem to be best around for their needs.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

MJJEAN said:


> Divorce doesn't necessarily mean the two house shuffle. I've heard of parents taking shifts in the former marital home so that the kids can stay put.
> 
> Do your Autistic kids have an extreme attachment to routine? When the routine changes, do they adjust after a time? I've only known a few children with Autism that were from divorced families. They seemed very big on routine and would become unglued when the routine was changed for any reason, but they did adjust after a time. Also, taking comfort items to the new place was a big deal. Real big. and by comfort items, I mean their bedding and toys/stuffed lovey/whatever.


Our daughter especially has very strong need for routine and throws her off quite a bit when changed, she is better at it now though then she used to be so maybe it would work.

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## Feeling lost and lonely

Wazza said:


> I don't know your back story.
> 
> Mine is that my wife had a protracted affair, i stayed for kids, and over time we put the marriage back together.
> 
> That was 25 years ago,we are still together and got through the problems. So it is possible, sometimes, for some people.
> 
> The earlier discussions about research that shows children from two parent families do better.....I have read that, and seen a fair hit of research that supports it. I've not seen any that debunks it, or demonstrates that other factors like parental involvement is the real key. So I tend to believe the original conclusion, that if you can make a two parent home work, it's better.
> 
> For me, the key would be whether I could have a constructive relationship with my spouse for the sake of the kids. That's not totally within my control. For example, if my wife had continued the affair, or had others, it would have reached a point of being untenable.
> 
> The converse actually happened for us. I think both of us are much better at relationships because of the work we put in during the bad years. But again, I could not have done that alone. It happened in part because of who my wife is. Also because we both have an old fashioned view of marriage.
> 
> It really comes down to the most awful trade off, where you are balancing your own heart and happiness agains the best outcome for your kids. Nobody can do that for you, and neither choice is guaranteed to be a success.


Good to know it can happen.

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## Spicy

About 15 years. My unhappiness was unknown by the kids and my parents/others. I dealt with it all in private. I stayed for everyone besides me. Then I hit the wall after other tragedies in my life, and I was done and nothing could have made me stay. I still wish I could have stayed until they were 18. That was my goal. They had a "perfect" life. They truly had no clue anything was wrong. I think that made it much harder for them to deal with the separation and divorce and also much harder to forgive me for leaving their father. Yet ,I still wouldn't want to go back and cause them the worry, stress etc of watching their parents so unhappy. I gave them as many years of happy family life as I could.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Spicy said:


> About 15 years. My unhappiness was unknown by the kids and my parents/others. I dealt with it all in private. I stayed for everyone besides me. Then I hit the wall after other tragedies in my life, and I was done and nothing could have made me stay. I still wish I could have stayed until they were 18. That was my goal. They had a "perfect" life. They truly had no clue anything was wrong. I think that made it much harder for them to deal with the separation and divorce and also much harder to forgive me for leaving their father. Yet ,I still wouldn't want to go back and cause them the worry, stress etc of watching their parents so unhappy. I gave them as many years of happy family life as I could.


I wish I were able to do that but to difficult to hide our problems.

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## 3Xnocharm

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> How much would you go through for your kids just to stay married for them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


You don't. 

I know you think you are doing the right thing by staying "for them" but in reality, you are NOT. Kids deserve happy, content parents who provide a good example for them.


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## 3Xnocharm

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> I wish I were able to do that but to difficult to hide our problems.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


I don't think its healthy to hide problems from your kids. They are basically living a lie that way, and when they are grown and you finally divorce, (or at whatever age, really...) that reality will slap them in the face. May likely cause a lot of guilt and insecurity as well. I think that is extremely unfair to do. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that parents need to be screaming and insulting or anything in front of them, but to pretend that all is happy when it isn't? Not fair to them, no matter how well intended.


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## 1985Anon

Never stay for kids! they have no good time when both parents upset and yelling and fight.
There is lots of ways to both have time with kid, agree on one plan then share your time. Kids will also be happiest this way.
Can find a few here or online other places https://blog.thistoo.co/blog/2016/5/19/most-popular-joint-custody-arrangements
Hope you both can separate easy and get on with your lifes


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## citygirl4344

It clearly depends on the situation ans circumstances because all families are different.
If you haven't tried marriage counseling you should take a jab at it if you truly want to stay. 

You don't for the kids you stay because you can see yourself spending the rest of your life with her. If that's a yes then go and do mc.



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## Feeling lost and lonely

We don't really argue with them around but it they can feel at least my sadness even though i am happy around them. Have a MC session next week on Friday it should have been this week but had to change it.

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## Feeling lost and lonely

As things are now no I can't see myself with her for the rest of my life. If something's can change then it is possible, really don't know if she want to change though.

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## Anon1111

MJJEAN said:


> Divorce doesn't necessarily mean the two house shuffle. I've heard of parents taking shifts in the former marital home so that the kids can stay put.
> 
> Do your Autistic kids have an extreme attachment to routine? When the routine changes, do they adjust after a time? I've only known a few children with Autism that were from divorced families. They seemed very big on routine and would become unglued when the routine was changed for any reason, but they did adjust after a time. Also, taking comfort items to the new place was a big deal. Real big. and by comfort items, I mean their bedding and toys/stuffed lovey/whatever.


all kids are different, but I guess my point was that some of the ordinary assumptions regarding how a family would cope with divorce need to be questioned in families with special needs kids

there might be a very fragile equilibrium with certain kids where a disruption could literally make the difference between them being able to function day to day or not.

it is not the case that kids of all profiles can learn to function in all environments. it is really a case by case issue.


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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> As things are now no I can't see myself with her for the rest of my life. If something's can change then it is possible, really don't know if she want to change though.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


you don't need to look that far out. just look to the near term. 

can you get through the next 6 months/year together? will your kids be better off if you do, or is there so much conflict that they would be better off the other way? 

then at the end of the period ask yourself the same question


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## Wazza

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> As things are now no I can't see myself with her for the rest of my life. If something's can change then it is possible, really don't know if she want to change though.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


There is the option of staying till the kids reach a certain age. 

What would have to change to let you stay?


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> all kids are different, but I guess my point was that some of the ordinary assumptions regarding how a family would cope with divorce need to be questioned in families with special needs kids
> 
> there might be a very fragile equilibrium with certain kids where a disruption could literally make the difference between them being able to function day to day or not.
> 
> it is not the case that kids of all profiles can learn to function in all environments. it is really a case by case issue.


I think the kids can handle it with time.

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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> you don't need to look that far out. just look to the near term.
> 
> can you get through the next 6 months/year together? will your kids be better off if you do, or is there so much conflict that they would be better off the other way?
> 
> then at the end of the period ask yourself the same question


I think a shorter period off time is possible to handle.

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## Feeling lost and lonely

Wazza said:


> There is the option of staying till the kids reach a certain age.
> 
> What would have to change to let you stay?


Her really showing that she want this to and working harder on us.
And eventually us not being just like roommates, this would take time.

I think we do good as parents to our kids and we make enough at least right now to pay all bills on time.
But what we have now is not what I wanted when we got married.

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## Garibaldi

Testing......

My previous attempt to post bounced?????


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## Garibaldi

OK we are working!!

I have been an involuntarily celibate husband for a very long time for the sake of my youngest child who arrived when I was 44. It was not completely a case of fatherly altruism; a stringent cost/benefit analysis was involved.

Let me explain. I worked in a field where I can observe what happen to families over a long time- in my case 30 years. Those that say that kids from divorced families do well with good, healthy co-parenting should look at the stats. Even a heavy Journal like Scientific American showed that while they make it to adulthood compared to kids from intact families they are not as successful in academic results, social skills, careers and relationships. But, I will admit where there is conflict, kids should be protected.

What has not been studied (to my knowledge) is what happens in divorce to kids with problems. OP's have autism. Mine was the exemplary Wild Child, starting with kindergarten when she bashed any kid who said they disliked her to rescuing often from abusive "bad boy" boyfriends to all & every thing in between e.g. alcohol abuse, self harm. I observed ~ 10 families in this situation and in every case the kids went haywire. So given the choice of blowing up a good companionate marriage for a better sex life but with the real risk of having my child become a dysfunctional adult it was a no-brainer.

10 years ago, if I had been asked where she'd be in 10 years I would have said probably locked up somewhere. I was very wrong. In April she started work as a highly qualified professional on a starting salary close to 6 figures. It's somewhat incongruous- she still drops 4 lettered Anglo-Saxon words of derision very freely.

Me? As I hurtle towards the end of my 7th decade I WILL make up for what I missed out on. If I end up sowing wild oats amongst the Snow Leopards my life will truly have turned out like a Jean-Luc Godard movie: it has a beginning, a middle and an end. Just not in that order.


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## Wazza

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> Her really showing that she want this to and working harder on us.
> And eventually us not being just like roommates, this would take time.
> 
> I think we do good as parents to our kids and we make enough at least right now to pay all bills on time.
> But what we have now is not what I wanted when we got married.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


Does she want to divorce, or does she say she wants to stay together but you are just not seeing the effort you would expect?


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Garibaldi said:


> OK we are working!!
> 
> I have been an involuntarily celibate husband for a very long time for the sake of my youngest child who arrived when I was 44. It was not completely a case of fatherly altruism; a stringent cost/benefit analysis was involved.
> 
> Let me explain. I worked in a field where I can observe what happen to families over a long time- in my case 30 years. Those that say that kids from divorced families do well with good, healthy co-parenting should look at the stats. Even a heavy Journal like Scientific American showed that while they make it to adulthood compared to kids from intact families they are not as successful in academic results, social skills, careers and relationships. But, I will admit where there is conflict, kids should be protected.
> 
> What has not been studied (to my knowledge) is what happens in divorce to kids with problems. OP's have autism. Mine was the exemplary Wild Child, starting with kindergarten when she bashed any kid who said they disliked her to rescuing often from abusive "bad boy" boyfriends to all & every thing in between e.g. alcohol abuse, self harm. I observed ~ 10 families in this situation and in every case the kids went haywire. So given the choice of blowing up a good companionate marriage for a better sex life but with the real risk of having my child become a dysfunctional adult it was a no-brainer.
> 
> 10 years ago, if I had been asked where she'd be in 10 years I would have said probably locked up somewhere. I was very wrong. In April she started work as a highly qualified professional on a starting salary close to 6 figures. It's somewhat incongruous- she still drops 4 lettered Anglo-Saxon words of derision very freely.
> 
> Me? As I hurtle towards the end of my 7th decade I WILL make up for what I missed out on. If I end up sowing wild oats amongst the Snow Leopards my life will truly have turned out like a Jean-Luc Godard movie: it has a beginning, a middle and an end. Just not in that order.


Thank you for sharing your experience both professional and private I do appreciate that knowledge. 
If it was good other then mainly a sexless life for both it would have been easier to handle but in the past our marriage was sexless but her life was not.
I do want what is best for the kids and it is difficult to figure out.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Wazza said:


> Does she want to divorce, or does she say she wants to stay together but you are just not seeing the effort you would expect?


She say that she want to stay together but I think she expect me to do all the work.
She knows that she has some issues that she need counseling for but won't call to make appointment. 
We were supposed to have our first marriage counseling session Friday but wanted it changed because her mom can't watch the kids because she had to do something. I asked her if they knew why we needed them watched and she said yes. 
I found out tonight that all they knew was that we had an appointment but not for what. From what I could tell she never asked her mom to watch them and I know that what her mom is doing could wait 2 hours with no problem so kinda doubt that she want to go to counseling even though she suggested it. Have it scheduled for next Friday instead so will see.

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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience both professional and private I do appreciate that knowledge.
> If it was good other then mainly a sexless life for both it would have been easier to handle but *in the past our marriage was sexless but her life was not.
> *I do want what is best for the kids and it is difficult to figure out.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


checking to see if there is any update.

I take the above bolded language to mean that she has cheated on you.

if that is the case perhaps you need to give yourself permission to let it go.

it is not all on you to keep it going.

that is certainly too bad for your kids if that is the case, but you didn't cause your wife to cheat (assuming she did).


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> checking to see if there is any update.
> 
> I take the above bolded language to mean that she has cheated on you.
> 
> if that is the case perhaps you need to give yourself permission to let it go.
> 
> it is not all on you to keep it going.
> 
> that is certainly too bad for your kids if that is the case, but you didn't cause your wife to cheat (assuming she did).


Yes she did cheat on me and more then once. 
She has finally started to be more honest about what she feel in the last couple of days and she say that she have not felt like her self for a very long time.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> Yes she did cheat on me and more then once.
> She has finally started to be more honest about what she feel in the last couple of days and she say that she have not felt like her self for a very long time.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


you may have already asked yourself these questions, but in case not

1. if this doesn't cause you to end the marriage, what would?

2. does she accept that it is on her to correct this, that it is not your job to hold things together and that she is accountable?


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> you may have already asked yourself these questions, but in case not
> 
> 1. if this doesn't cause you to end the marriage, what would?
> 
> 2. does she accept that it is on her to correct this, that it is not your job to hold things together and that she is accountable?


1. If she did it again sure would and if she don't try to fix things.
2. She knows it was her fault for what happened but will have to see how much work she is willing to do to make it work again.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> 1. If she did it again sure would and if she don't try to fix things.


has this been made clear to her?

does she know what your requirements are regarding her trying?

how long are you going to give her to demonstrate that she is actually trying?



Feeling lost and lonely said:


> 2. She knows it was her fault for what happened but will have to see how much work she is willing to do to make it work again.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


I'm getting the sense that she is lukewarm about reconciling. if that is the case, are you being honest with yourself about the likelihood of this continuing?

is it possible that you're just avoiding making a decision?


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> has this been made clear to her?
> 
> does she know what your requirements are regarding her trying?
> 
> how long are you going to give her to demonstrate that she is actually trying?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting the sense that she is lukewarm about reconciling. if that is the case, are you being honest with yourself about the likelihood of this continuing?
> 
> is it possible that you're just avoiding making a decision?


We have our first session with a marriage counselor today so will see how it goes. 
She does know it is not going to continue like it is now. 
How long to keep trying depends on her efforts in working on this.
It is possible that I am trying to delay having to make the decision but I do have the forms from lawyer that I can e-mail to them to file.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> We have our first session with a marriage counselor today so will see how it goes.
> She does know it is not going to continue like it is now.
> How long to keep trying depends on her efforts in working on this.
> It is possible that I am trying to delay having to make the decision but I do have the forms from lawyer that I can e-mail to them to file.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


alright man. good luck.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> alright man. good luck.


Thank you I for sure need a lot of that.

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## GuyInColorado

Are you depressed? Not getting a good vibe from my chair. You don't need luck. You need to take control of your life and make it the best. Does your wife walk all over you? 

Take care of yourself. Gym and therapist. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy too. Read it again. It woke me up.

Your wife is replaceable. We all are. Don't stay with her unless she truly makes you happy. Life is short, there are no do overs. Don't live with regret like so many people. I divorced my wife with a 6yr and 4yr old. I'm loving life again. You can too.


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## Anon1111

GuyInColorado said:


> Are you depressed? Not getting a good vibe from my chair. You don't need luck. You need to take control of your life and make it the best. Does your wife walk all over you?
> 
> Take care of yourself. Gym and therapist. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy too. Read it again. It woke me up.
> 
> Your wife is replaceable. We all are. Don't stay with her unless she truly makes you happy. Life is short, there are no do overs. Don't live with regret like so many people. I divorced my wife with a 6yr and 4yr old. I'm loving life again. You can too.



I think I get where he is coming from.

you feel a responsibility to hold it all together. 

this is heightened when you feel like there could be major downsides to your special needs child from a split.

I don't think this is totally different from what any father would feel, but maybe just magnified due to the special needs thing.

As a father with young kids, I'd be curious what you think about this.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

GuyInColorado said:


> Are you depressed? Not getting a good vibe from my chair. You don't need luck. You need to take control of your life and make it the best. Does your wife walk all over you?
> 
> Take care of yourself. Gym and therapist. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy too. Read it again. It woke me up.
> 
> Your wife is replaceable. We all are. Don't stay with her unless she truly makes you happy. Life is short, there are no do overs. Don't live with regret like so many people. I divorced my wife with a 6yr and 4yr old. I'm loving life again. You can too.


I don't know if I would say depressed but it is possible that I am. Definitely very frustrated, sad and stressed about our situation. She used to walk all over me but not as much now. You sure are right that we are all replaceable. I know I can take care of my self and kids if it gets to that.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> I think I get where he is coming from.
> 
> you feel a responsibility to hold it all together.
> 
> this is heightened when you feel like there could be major downsides to your special needs child from a split.
> 
> I don't think this is totally different from what any father would feel, but maybe just magnified due to the special needs thing.
> 
> As a father with young kids, I'd be curious what you think about this.


It sure makes it more difficult with a child that had her issues.

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## Feeling lost and lonely

My wife ended up sick from heatstroke while working so we had to cancel our counseling session. 
Not happy about how she acted about it.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


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## Wazza

GuyInColorado said:


> Are you depressed? Not getting a good vibe from my chair. You don't need luck. You need to take control of your life and make it the best. Does your wife walk all over you?
> 
> Take care of yourself. Gym and therapist. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy too. Read it again. It woke me up.
> 
> Your wife is replaceable. We all are. Don't stay with her unless she truly makes you happy. Life is short, there are no do overs. Don't live with regret like so many people. I divorced my wife with a 6yr and 4yr old. I'm loving life again. You can too.


The thing is, we are not all replaceable. You only ever have one set of parents. 

I'm not saying this to criticise your decision, just to balance what you are saying. There has to be (and I am sure there usually is) a balancing up of your needs against those of your kids. Your post doesn't seem to acknowledge that.


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## Wazza

So FLAL,you have a marriage that is not good, a wife who has been unfaithful and is avoiding doing the things you need. You are hurt because you really want to fix the marriage but feel you can't do that while your wife isn't trying, and you are also worried about the impact on your kids. The situation is intolerable and unless something changes, you can't see yourself being able to stick around.

Is that all accurate? I am going to throw a few thoughts in, but want to make sure I am on the right track first.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Wazza said:


> So FLAL,you have a marriage that is not good, a wife who has been unfaithful and is avoiding doing the things you need. You are hurt because you really want to fix the marriage but feel you can't do that while your wife isn't trying, and you are also worried about the impact on your kids. The situation is intolerable and unless something changes, you can't see yourself being able to stick around.
> 
> Is that all accurate? I am going to throw a few thoughts in, but want to make sure I am on the right track first.


I think that is quite accurate. I'm not sure if I want to try saving it anymore though.

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## DrSher

Staying for kids sake is a bad idea. The man will remain a door mat; T will keep dropping and sex more scarce than honest people in government.

It is my observation that many women use kids to keep the neutered, meek and emasculated poor sex-starved husband in further misery.

I lost a good friend to that, saying it as it was, that I thought his wife was treating him like a castrati. Now he is trapped, crippled and sad as I predicted.

Be your own man. Don't let kids entrap you. In a custody case, they go to the woman in any case, so they really aren't yours o begin with. You can always meet them later. For a man, parenthood is more a curse than a blessing, IMHO.


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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> I think that is quite accurate. I'm not sure if I want to try saving it anymore though.
> 
> Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk


FLL-- any update?


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## Herschel

Regarding the first post, NEVER stay for the kids. EVER EVER EVER. You may stay a little longer for yourself (let's say the youngest is a baby and it would be a PITA to manage separately). But never stay for the kids. The kids will be angry at you for wasting your life because you think that staying was what was best for them. You have 1 shot on this planet and you have to make the most of it. If you can maintain a healthy relationship (which will always be healthier if you leave earlier than later, assuming you were definitely going to leave) then the kids will be fine, see how two people who couldn't make it work ended up making it work and everyone will be happier.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

I will try write update today if not then tomorrow. 

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk


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## Feeling lost and lonely

So here is an update, not going as well as i had hoped that it would.
We are more civil with each other and less arguing so just kinda neutral at the moment so that is good. What is not good is that my support network is not going so well, i have no family from my side in the area and my parents were going to help financially with extra things needed but a change in my dads health and extra expenses from that makes it difficult for them to help right now. If it gets a lot worse then i will leave but for now I can just work on me and getting what i can prepared.

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## turnera

Work on your finances first before leaving. Sell stuff on online garage sales in your area. Cut expenses. Cut cable. Let everyone see what two-home life will be like.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

turnera said:


> Work on your finances first before leaving. Sell stuff on online garage sales in your area. Cut expenses. Cut cable. Let everyone see what two-home life will be like.


I don't really have anything to sell and expenses already cut where possible, we have enough for bills so that helps. Maybe i should find a second job a couple of hours each week.

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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> I don't really have anything to sell and expenses already cut where possible, we have enough for bills so that helps. Maybe i should find a second job a couple of hours each week.
> 
> Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk


what is your wife's responsibility in all of this?

she gets to cheat, but you're supposed to stick around to prevent financial hardship . . .?

what if you just said--- sorry, it's your problem.

I know this has a major effect on your kids and that truly sucks, but it's unfortunate that their mother chose to cross this line. You didn't do that.

the reality is there is no good outcome here and the damage has already been done. again, she did the damage, not you.

if she is not majorly invested in correcting that, what's wrong with just letting the chips fall?


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## 3Xnocharm

So, she cheated and gets to stay and be taken care of? Oh hell no, tell HER to GTFO. Have some self respect and set a good example for your kids.


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> what is your wife's responsibility in all of this?
> 
> she gets to cheat, but you're supposed to stick around to prevent financial hardship . . .?
> 
> what if you just said--- sorry, it's your problem.
> 
> I know this has a major effect on your kids and that truly sucks, but it's unfortunate that their mother chose to cross this line. You didn't do that.
> 
> the reality is there is no good outcome here and the damage has already been done. again, she did the damage, not you.
> 
> if she is not majorly invested in correcting that, what's wrong with just letting the chips fall?


Because of the kids needs regarding house and school district I can't just let it all fall without enough support system for me to make it.
I am still not sure how much she is willing to work on it.

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## Feeling lost and lonely

3Xnocharm said:


> So, she cheated and gets to stay and be taken care of? Oh hell no, tell HER to GTFO. Have some self respect and set a good example for your kids.


I wish it was as easy as it sounds but I know I should.

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk


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## Anon1111

Feeling lost and lonely said:


> Because of the kids needs regarding house and school district I can't just let it all fall without enough support system for me to make it.
> I am still not sure how much she is willing to work on it.
> 
> Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk


OK, I will take your word for it that you've got to maintain your current school district, etc.

If that is the case, can you communicate to your wife that if she is not 100% committed to rebuilding the marriage, then your project will be to move toward separation as soon as possible?

This means that you will be looking to downsize financially wherever possible, exploring moving options, etc.

Really make her see that the wheels are in motion to change your lifestyle and that things will not just "stay the same" forever (even if they must stay the same temporarily).


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## Feeling lost and lonely

Anon1111 said:


> OK, I will take your word for it that you've got to maintain your current school district, etc.
> 
> If that is the case, can you communicate to your wife that if she is not 100% committed to rebuilding the marriage, then your project will be to move toward separation as soon as possible?
> 
> This means that you will be looking to downsize financially wherever possible, exploring moving options, etc.
> 
> Really make her see that the wheels are in motion to change your lifestyle and that things will not just "stay the same" forever (even if they must stay the same temporarily).


The school district we are in have a very good special ed department that has worked very good for our kids so far. 
We are supposed to start marriage counseling on friday so will see how that goes.
She will know it is not going to stay like this.
Lately it has been less fighting and better together with kids but once they are asleep all we are is roommates not saying that's not okay at times but not all the time.

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## turnera

She needs to see you going out with the guys and having a life of your own. THEN you'll become more interesting.

Have you read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.s?


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## farsidejunky

turnera said:


> Have you read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.s?


Second.


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## ChargingCharlie

DrSher said:


> Staying for kids sake is a bad idea. The man will remain a door mat; T will keep dropping and sex more scarce than honest people in government.
> 
> It is my observation that many women use kids to keep the neutered, meek and emasculated poor sex-starved husband in further misery.
> 
> I lost a good friend to that, saying it as it was, that I thought his wife was treating him like a castrati. Now he is trapped, crippled and sad as I predicted.
> 
> Be your own man. Don't let kids entrap you. In a custody case, they go to the woman in any case, so they really aren't yours o begin with. You can always meet them later. For a man, parenthood is more a curse than a blessing, IMHO.


Agree - I love my kids to death (they're still little), but having them ruined our marriage, IMO (not going to rehash the story here). Let's just say that while I always look forward to seeing and being with the kids, I dread spending time with the wife and actually don't look forward to weekends, especially when I can't take them somewhere due to weather (I always try to take them myself as that's the point - get me away from her for a while). Didn't feel this way before kids.


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