# Possible EA or just me being paranoid about a platonic friendship?



## squid1035

I’ve posted on TAM a few times and I’ve been reading a few threads regarding EA’s so I thought I’d share my current story.

I’ve been married to my wife for 17 years. We have 3 kids 17,16, & 11. Wife had meltdown almost 3 years ago and basically emotionally detached from the marriage. WAW for sure. ILYBINILWY. So for the last 2 years or so we kind of evolved from totally imploded marriage to a slowly normalized relationship. Still no sex. But we went from a couple years ago sleeping in separate bedrooms total emotional distance (from her) to sleeping in the same bed to even her being comfortable partially naked around me. We’ve even gone on a few vacations abroad together. 

She went back to school to better herself and found work. A big change from being a SAHM for many years. But through that time her demeanor went from constantly sullen and blue to upbeat and happier. We shared more fun and relaxed moments together. I began to think that we were turning things around. 

Whenever we would talk about the state of our marriage she would, however, always regress to the memory of how much she put the marriage before herself throughout that time. She felt she lost herself and sees herself as weak in those years and that she never wants to become that person again. So a thought of us being together romantically in the future has never entered her mind. She fully believes that it will never happen and that eventually we will go our separate ways as soon as our youngest is off to college.

Now skip to a few weeks ago. She says she’s going to a lunch date with some friends and that she shouldn’t be long. I try texting her several times to get an update because I’m waiting at home with the kids to see what our plans should be, but she’s basically unreachable. I get a little worried because this is not like her to be gone for so long and without contact. Turns out she went to see the manatees in a marina not too far from home and that she was with just one of the 2 friends she originally planned to hang out with. Then a couple weeks later, while at work she texts me that she’s going to grab something where she works and will be home a little later than planned. I text back a little later, concerned because the weather reports show for tornado-type weather and that she should try to get home soon. No replies for about 2 hours. Then she arrives home. I asked her where she went for dinner and she said she went to happy hour and I asked where. She vaguely alludes to “over there”, which I kind of pick up on as a little evasive. That night, I’m sitting in our living room and her phone is on the coffee table at my feet. It lights up from a text message and I glance at it. 

It’s from a person we’ll call Matt and it says “sleep well”. I kind of brush it off. But I’m curious.

Two nights later, with her phone on the coffee table, another texts lights up the phone. It’s from Matt asking “How’s your evening?” I become super suspicious, to say the least. Mind you, we haven’t fully reconciled at this point. She hasn’t told me she loves me in a romantic way for almost 3 years. Red flags start to come up. And I don’t sleep at all that night.

Two days later I ask who Matt is. She explains he is a coworker and a good friend. Even says that he’s kind of her confidant at work. And they can just talk so easily.

I know, how many red flags can you count???

I ask if there’s anything else going on that I should worry about. She says no. And I tell her that I am really uncomfortable with her spending time with another man. Given the state of our marriage, such a friendship could be dangerous. She replies, “Noted”.

This was 2 weeks ago. This past weekend we were in a grocery store and she wanted to send me something from her phone but didn’t know how. I asked to see her phone, to which at first she was hesitant. Finally she handed me her phone so that I could screencapture what she wanted to send to me and then text it to me. She hovered over me every second I had the phone. When she saw me open up her text messages she literally yelled, grabbed the phone from me, and tried to shrug me off saying she had to do something first. Yes, I had every intention to see what her messages were from Matt. When she finally gave back the phone, I went straight to her messages, with her hovering, and saw a string of texts from someone who’s initials are most likely that of Matt. They read about a camper van project that he couldn’t wait to show her. Prior to this she did mention that Matt was leaving in March to travel and settle west and that he wanted to hang out with her and other friends before he left. And on another occasion that a “friend” bought a campervan and was planning a trip out west. I immediately assume she’s talking about Matt. 

We have another conversation and I tell how strange she acted in the grocery store. She says that it was so weird that I would try and go through her phone. I think to myself, “well it’s even weirder that you changed OM contact name to his initials, probably to throw me off the trail in case he texts you and I might see”. She then says, Matt is only a friend and he will remain my friend for as long as can be. I ask flatly, “Can I trust you? I need to know that I can trust you.” I tell her that I believe her to be a principled, moral person with integrity, which I believe. She says there is nothing bad going on. It’s only friendship.

Now I know I’m coming off as a possessive husband right now. But if our marriage was a happy and healthy one, I probably would have no problem with her having a guy friend. But it is the fact that she is spending time alone with this man and now being clearly secretive about it that concerns me to no end. I honestly don't think it is physical yet but I can sense the emotions are ramping up now that he will be leaving in a couple of weeks. And I know that every spouse couldn't possibly believe that their SO would cheat up until the moment they found out, or even later.

It’s been a rough couple of years for me. I’ve been on the outside hoping for reconciliation. She’s told me a few times how impressed at the changes that she has seen in me. Yet she sees no future for us together.

Do I live a lie for the next 6 years, supporting her and seeing her move on, even romantically? Or do I say “see ya” and live with wreckage. She wants to make no effort at rebuilding our marriage. So what is the point of living one more day like this? BTW the money she makes couldn’t possibly pay for her own apartment and affording to pay for one as well as her school wouldn’t be feasible either.

I’m ready for the beta male remarks and the “man the f*** up” demands. But I’m at that point now to make a very harsh decision that would cause a lot of heartache for a lot of people. The thought of my youngest son having to go through our divorce breaks my heart. I’m at work typing this and I’m about to lose it. But I can’t live this way any more. It’s like I’m a widower living with the ghost of my dead wife. She comes into my life, haunts me, and then drifts away. And then does it again and again. 

The only glimmer of hope is that my therapist is also working to get her into IC and maybe try and work with her more. She went a while back, but stopped going. I think she’s very good at compartmentalizing her emotions and simply doesn’t want to address some of her deeper issues. Sad, really.

Anyway, bring on the abuse. I think I know what I need to do.


----------



## Herschel

What are you getting out of staying with her?


----------



## farsidejunky

Even if this was not a full blown affair (which I would bet that it is), why would you continue to live this way?

The marriage your kids see is one they will emulate as being normal. Is that what you want?


----------



## GuyInColorado

You call this a marriage? Seriously? She checked out a long time ago. Go find your man card. No sex in years? What's wrong with you? Do you not have any self confidence? Go find a woman that wants your d!ck every night. They are out there. You aren't getting any younger. Don't wait 7 years until the youngest turns 18. That's what she's doing, I guarantee it. 

You need to be mad. Not just about the EA, but the fact that you let your POS wife walk over you. You are a doormat. You are a poor role model for your kids to show them what a successful and healthy relationship is. They are thinking your relationship is normal and will have an everlasting negative affect on them. 

Please wake up. Let your sham of a marriage go. Sorry for being so blunt. But you are in serious denial or think you'll never find another woman again. Go find a new therapist, preferably a man. I'm curious.. are you seeing a Christian therapist that is anti-divorce?


----------



## squid1035

GuyInColorado said:


> You call this a marriage? Seriously? She checked out a long time ago. Go find your man card. No sex in years? What's wrong with you? Do you not have any self confidence? Go find a woman that wants your d!ck every night. They are out there. You aren't getting any younger. Don't wait 7 years until the youngest turns 18. That's what she's doing, I guarantee it.
> 
> You need to be mad. Not just about the EA, but the fact that you let your POS wife walk over you. You are a doormat. You are a poor role model for your kids to show them what a successful and healthy relationship is. They are thinking your relationship is normal and will have an everlasting negative affect on them.
> 
> Please wake up. Let your sham of a marriage go. Sorry for being so blunt. But you are in serious denial or think you'll never find another woman again. Go find a new therapist, preferably a man. I'm curious.. are you seeing a Christian therapist that is anti-divorce?


Everything you are saying is everything I have said to myself over the last 6 months. Yes, I'm seeing a Christian therapist who thinks reconciliation is possible. But even he has doubts. No self confidence, for sure. 

I know what the hard choice is, I'm too chickens*** of the wreckage that will come. But in the end, it is probably for the best.


----------



## MrsAldi

Did something happen in your marriage that caused her not to love you anymore? 

What happened 3 years ago?

She's checked out emotionally and I believe is only staying with you for financial reasons, she may leave when things get better for her job wise. 
Is this Matt guy married or single? 



Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


----------



## Yeswecan

Sir, I would call the ball on this one. Specifically for this:



> So a thought of us being together romantically in the future has never entered her mind. She fully believes that it will never happen and that eventually we will go our separate ways as soon as our youngest is off to college.


And to add the HUGE red flag concerning the coworker who is working your W. 

Sorry you are here. The entire marriage looks to be in shambles.


----------



## GuyInColorado

You are a great candidate for the 180. You need to start living in separate rooms. Don't do anything with her. Only interact with her about the kids. You need to hit the gym hard, every day. Eat and drink healthy. Time to work on you. Find a new therapist. Find a good attorney and start the divorce. She wants to end this misery too. You both don't have the courage to do it. It will be a hard conversation but you both will be relieved. Keep the divorce fair and amicable. It will help with the co-parenting and you guys should be able to be friends later on and be in the same room for life events. You can do this. I and many others on this site have done it. The hardest part is telling her it's over and start the divorce process.


----------



## MyRevelation

I gotta agree with the others ... your WW is most likely having a full blown PA with ole Matt. There are simply way too many big waving red flags to ignore.

I understand your hesitancy, I've been D'd with kids before and it will be messy for a few months, BUT THEN you will kick yourself for putting up with the **** sandwich she has been serving you. I'm now 25+ years out from that time ... my kids are both happy, contributing members of society with their own families and all in all, life is good.

Also, based on your descriptions and my own experiences, the few months of dealing with a messy D are actually much better than the Hell you're living in right now, and when the judge signs those final orders, you will feel like a bird let out of its cage. 

Go ahead and pull the trigger and have WW served with D papers, and with any luck, she may decide to head out west with ole Matt in that oh so romantic campervan pulled by unicorns. She's in deep and wants out, just doesn't want to be the bad guy ... give her that freedom and leverage her "being in lurve" to negotiate a favorable property and custody settlement. You hold more cards than you realize ... strike now while the opportunity presents itself that Matt will keep her distracted.

Go see the best D attorney in your area ... keep that info close to your vest ... and reclaim the rest of your life.


----------



## SunCMars

You are paying for her schooling.
You are paying for her entertainment at bars.
You are paying for her roof over her head.
You are paying for her food, her water, her heat and her A/C.

You are paying her while she cavorts with another man. EA, PA. whatever.

Her heart is not yours.
Her lips are not yours
Her boobs are not yours.
Her warm? fold is not yours.

These things belong to the Other Man.
And yet, you are paying her for her misbehavior. Her Mrs.Behavior. She is your wife but someone else's lover.

This is obvious.

Now, according to her, OM is moving away to another state soon. Your wife went there long ago. She is in another state....of mind. A non-married one.

Look, you two have been room mates for years. You and her get no sex.

Guess what? She wants sex. She needs sex. She wants intimacy, She wants companionship.

She found hers. Let her go.

Go find yours. Do not snoop. Do not Snoop Doggy style. She done the deed. She liked it. Why would she not?

But why continue paying her to cheat on you. She dumped you but forgot to tell you. Oh, she did, didn't she?

Let her go off on her own. Do not enable her. Stop paying for her infidelity. 

She deserves a new start.

You deserve a new start.

Pay for yours, she pays for hers. 

Uh, any questions?


----------



## Bananapeel

It's probably a PA, but you already know that. Personally, if I were in your shoes I'd probably need proof that it was a PA to file for divorce. Take her phone and run some phone recovery software on it. Or if it's an iPhone go into the message thread and hit the information button on the upper right hand corner. That will show the images that were recently sent via text, even if they were deleted. Once you get what you need, divorce her. You'll be much happier moving on from her and it will be good for you to end the relationship on your terms instead of waiting for the inevitable.


----------



## jb02157

squid1035 said:


> Everything you are saying is everything I have said to myself over the last 6 months. Yes, I'm seeing a Christian therapist who thinks reconciliation is possible. But even he has doubts. No self confidence, for sure.
> 
> I know what the hard choice is, I'm too chickens*** of the wreckage that will come. But in the end, it is probably for the best.


Why would you bother try to R with her when she says she's gone when your youngest goes to college. Right now all she's doing is cake eating. Dump her now. All the kids are ssing right now is much worse than a divorce will be.


----------



## badmemory

squid1035 said:


> But if our marriage was a happy and healthy one, I probably would have no problem with her having a guy friend.
> 
> Do I live a lie for the next 6 years, supporting her and seeing her move on, even romantically? Or do I say “see ya” and live with wreckage. She wants to make no effort at rebuilding our marriage. So what is the point of living one more day like this? B


If you had a happy and healthy marriage, you still should have a problem with this friend. It's way past a reasonable marital boundary and likely an EA; possibly a PA. She wouldn't try to hide it otherwise. 

But since your wife is treating you like a rented mule; this is more than boundary breaking. It's likely just her first step toward seeking an exit affair. If not with him, then with someone else soon after. She's literally daring you to divorce her.

There's no marriage to save here friend. Your wife couldn't be any more clear about it. At this point her EA is secondary to your willingness to be abused by her.

So yes, your best option is to say "see ya". I would think that the immediate "wreckage" you envision should you pull the trigger now, will pale in comparison to wasting more miserable years of your life before she eventually finds someone to facilitate that exit affair. Then you'll have to deal with that pain too.

Move on. Find a woman that loves and respects you.


----------



## TX-SC

You know what needs to be done. The question is simply, "Can you do it?" you have no real marriage. Your wife has told you she does not love you. 

Why do you think a divorce would be "wreckage"? In many instances, the people who divorce end up in a much better place after divorce. If you think you are protecting your kids, think again. Children are observant and you are teaching them that a loveless marriage is okay. Do they ever see you hug or kiss your wife? They are not stupid. By divorcing, but doing so amicably, you teach them how to take charge of a bad situation. You can tell them the truth. They are old enough. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


----------



## eric1

The one thing that is absolutely certain without a shadow of a doubt is that, at minimum, Matt is a pathetic orbiter trying to sneak his way in, if he has not already.


----------



## Hope1964

You're way past R my friend. Rip the bandaid off. Now. Don't wait - it will only be harder the longer you wait.


----------



## OnTheRocks

I'm not sure how one can even expect fidelity in this situation, really. No sex for 3 years? Most normal people have needs, and she's apparently already getting hers met. Stop torturing yourself any further, and just pull the plug. This marriage flatlined 3 years ago.


----------



## squid1035

eric1 said:


> The one thing that is absolutely certain without a shadow of a doubt is that, at minimum, Matt is a pathetic orbiter trying to sneak his way in, if he has not already.


ABSOLUTELY.

I'm here. I've been reading all of your posts and thinking. I'm actually RELIEVED at finally getting to having this conversation. We've told each other even recently how much we care about each other and that NO MATTER WHAT we keep being awesome parents to our kids. Our deeper love is mutual. Just not the marital love.

At this point, I don't even want to be concerned with the OM. Like, I just want to let go. It's such a burden. I nearly lost myself a few times. Deep depression. Drinking. I can't go on letting my kids see this and think that life should be this way. 

Thanks for being here.


----------



## badmemory

squid1035 said:


> At this point, I don't even want to be concerned with the OM. Like, I just want to let go. It's such a burden. I nearly lost myself a few times. Deep depression. Drinking. I can't go on letting my kids see this and think that life should be this way.
> 
> Thanks for being here.


Formulate an exit strategy first. Talk to a lawyer. Then tell her.

After you do, get to the gym, get counseling and if necessary, get meds for depression. Lean on family and friends. Look forward, not back. A better life awaits you.


----------



## GusPolinski

Affair. EA _at least_.

And seeing any counselor or therapist that makes it a point to call himself or herself a _Christian_ whatever is a complete waste of time, because they're going to push marriage at all cost.


----------



## SunCMars

eric1 said:


> The one thing that is absolutely certain without a shadow of a doubt is that, at minimum, *Matt is a pathetic orbiter trying to sneak his way in*, if he has not already.


Things have changed. Orbiters are now functioning drones. 

In the old days drones were male bees servicing the Queen Bee.

Some lucky drones, especially those that did overtime and were extra doting, got to deliver their honey into the Big Gal.

Nowadays, drones are interactive, communicative via I-Phones and have buzzing Softer Ware that they can use on their female victims. They are ambidextrous and they have big cannons that can desolate most shaved forests. 

They are remote controlled, but rarely use this function. Manual mode is normally more effective and more satisfying at close range.


----------



## Marc878

We're just "friends" is the biggest lie told. If you want to waste your life away on this knock yourself out.

When your kids grow up like most they'll have their own life and you'll be .......


Read up
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrB..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=ovZil8FeR4EpNuGZphcuD8LXk58-


----------



## SunCMars

Hope1964 said:


> You're way past R my friend. Rip the bandaid off. Now. Don't wait - it will only be harder the longer you wait.


I agree with Hope.

From the North, she speaks.



Yes, but do not be surprised. Once the band-aid is removed, no flesh is beneath it. Just a hole.

A hole. And, at the bottom of the hole is an outline of a cutaneous filariasis, a parasitic worm. 

In chemistry when you want to separate an element from a solution you precipitate it. You give that element solidity.

Your wife is in that hole; still in flux. Make her solid. *Make her leave*.

She must leave for you to *Heal*. Now, as your relationship presently *Stands*, you *Heel*, when she pulls your leash.


----------



## Marc878

squid1035 said:


> ABSOLUTELY.
> 
> I'm here. I've been reading all of your posts and thinking. I'm actually RELIEVED at finally getting to having this conversation. We've told each other even recently how much we care about each other and that NO MATTER WHAT we keep being awesome parents to our kids. Our deeper love is mutual. Just not the marital love.
> 
> At this point, I don't even want to be concerned with the OM. Like, I just want to let go. It's such a burden. I nearly lost myself a few times. Deep depression. Drinking. I can't go on letting my kids see this and think that life should be this way.
> 
> Thanks for being here.


You can be an awesome dad and not live in infidelity. Why stay in this?


----------



## Fielding

squid1035 said:


> Everything you are saying is everything I have said to myself over the last 6 months. Yes, I'm seeing a Christian therapist who thinks reconciliation is possible. But even he has doubts. No self confidence, for sure.
> 
> I know what the hard choice is, I'm too chickens*** of the wreckage that will come. But in the end, it is probably for the best.


I think your confidence has a much better chance of returning once you get out of this abusive relationship.


----------



## eric1

Squid. If you don't do anything then you don't care about your kids and their mental health.

I'm sorry to put such a rough edge on it, but the first step is really the hardest. You need to come back here and tell us the next concrete action that you are going to get you and your kids out of infidelity.

One action. I don't care if it's writing 'F U' over the garage door in crayon. One concrete action begets the next.

What's the first action?


----------



## squid1035

Whelp,

I know this will underwhelm everyone here but we had a long talk tonight. Pretty much told her that if you look at all the evidence, everything points to, at least, an EA. She says she agreed and acted totally naive but still flatly denied. And I said every bit of this relationship with OM is a total disrespect to myself, our kids, and this family. She insisted that boundaries have been set and that nothing has or will happen, and that they only meet in public places, never in private. I explained how much our crappy marriage is already affecting the older kids and how they're protecting the youngest one from it. She agreed and turned sad. I honestly don't think it's physical but it's headed that way. I told her to look up limerence and tell me if any of that sounds familiar. And that she's either not being truthful with me, herself or is in total denial, but she's headed for an EA if it's not there yet. She went quiet. 

I know I look weak as hell. 

I reached out to a guy from my men's group and he gave some advice on what to do before I went to a divorce attorney. He went through something like this recently with a woman that was full on crazy. He told me to get my financial accounts in order first before I mention anything to her about divorce. I'll be consulting with an attorney in a few days. 

Look, I have no intention of kicking her to the curb and leaving her out in the cold. She's the mother of my children and I do genuinely care about her. I told her that I can't take this marriage anymore and living a lie like this, even for the sake of our kids. She looked very worried. And I left it at that.

That's all I have thus far.


----------



## OnTheRocks

I don't think that was weak at all. In fact, I think being that direct and resolute without solid proof of an affair shows strength, but you CANNOT BE BLUFFING. She will test your resolve soon. People may say you should get solid evidence first, but if you truly feel this way (and you should based on what you've written here), you don't need it. 

My guess is that she had some kind of previous affair 3 yrs ago, and you got the ILYBNILWY speech when she decided she was in lurve with that sancho. He probably dumped her when he got the sense she wanted more, but by then she had lost respect for you. She has been on the prowl since, and is smitten enough with this new guy to get careless. 

Talk to a few good lawyers before making any financial moves or disclosing anything else about your intent. She has now become the enemy. It seems you have already mostly changed your view of her in this direction anyway. I would be pretty pissed off too at this point. 

I wish you the best. This will be a tough ride, no matter the outcome.


----------



## sokillme

OnTheRocks said:


> I don't think that was weak at all. In fact, I think being that direct and resolute without solid proof of an affair shows strength, but you CANNOT BE BLUFFING. She will test your resolve soon. People may say you should get solid evidence first, but if you truly feel this way (and you should based on what you've written here), you don't need it.
> 
> My guess is that she had some kind of previous affair 3 yrs ago, and you got the ILYBNILWY speech when she decided she was in lurve with that sancho. He probably dumped her when he got the sense she wanted more, but by then she had lost respect for you. She has been on the prowl since, and is smitten enough with this new guy to get careless.
> 
> Talk to a few good lawyers before making any financial moves or disclosing anything else about your intent. She has now become the enemy. It seems you have already mostly changed your view of her in this direction anyway. I would be pretty pissed off too at this point.
> 
> I wish you the best. This will be a tough ride, no matter the outcome.


Why don't you say what the meltdown was over. I agree sounds like she cheated on you 3 years ago.

When your spouse says ILYBNILWY you give them papers the next day. That's the only course of action.


----------



## OnTheRocks

I have two questions:

- What did she blame the meltdown on 3 years ago?

- Are you really surprised that at least one of you has sought affection elsewhere by now?


----------



## OnTheRocks

Three questions, actually:

- Where can I get a bunch of what SunCMars is smoking?


----------



## ABHale

Sounds like you are on the right track. Keep pushing forward and file for divorce. 

Like you said she is in a EA with the OM. She has already stated she is gone when the youngest goes to college. Also that she doesn't see the two of you growing old together. 

It's time, you have tried for three years now. You have done your best. You can not fix this marriage with her not even trying.


----------



## OnTheRocks

ABHale said:


> She has already stated she is gone when the youngest goes to college. Also that she doesn't see the two of you growing old together.


Damn, I totally forgot to rant about that part. Haha. 

Why waste 6 more years of your life, with this on the horizon? As soon as you heard that, you should have filed. I'm not saying I would've had the strength myself when I was married for the first time with a young kid, but I would now. Life is way too short.


----------



## sokillme

What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by basically supporting her lifestyle and affair? Just pay her alimony and get it over with at least you wont' have to watch her as she builds a whole new life without you. At least she won't be doing it right in front of you and in front of her children's father while they watch. Seriously why in your right mind would you put up with this situation? Guilt?

Over and over, passive men get bullied. Over and over and over. Doesn't matter what site or how it starts, what the guys age, how long they have known each other, what religion, if they were soulmates, passive men get taken advantage of consistently. They get cheated on in the worst most disrespectful ways imaginable. The women don't even have the decency to not flaunt it. Nope they almost cerebrate it. Over and over. Just as water is wet. Parents raise your sons to be strong and have boundaries. No women is worth your own self respect. 

People like your wife who do this kind of stuff are not worth the time and effort.


----------



## squid1035

Basically, the meltdown was due to deep depression, burnout and mid-life crisis. She blames me and our marriage for taking away her youth and that she wants to experience more.

There were suspicions of an affair then. But she literally had no other circles back then other than my friends and school families. She didn't really have any life back then. She saw herself as a weak person and somehow reconciling would mean she'd be going back to that person.

Twisted and sad. She's got a lot of issues that she's not willing to confront. The only good news is that she is finally willing to try going back to a therapist. I'm glad of that for her sake. 

Good night, all.


----------



## sokillme

squid1035 said:


> Basically, the meltdown was due to deep depression, burnout and mid-life crisis. She blames me and our marriage for taking away her youth and that she wants to experience more.
> 
> There were suspicions of an affair then. But she literally had no other circles back then other than my friends and school families. She didn't really have any life back then. She saw herself as a weak person and somehow reconciling would mean she'd be going back to that person.
> 
> Twisted and sad. She's got a lot of issues that she's not willing to confront. The only good news is that she is finally willing to try going back to a therapist. I'm glad of that for her sake.
> 
> Good night, all.


Did she want to be a SAHM or did you force her to do that? You wife sound awfully entitled. Now at the very least she is having an EA, and she told you she was leaving when the kids grew up? What does it take for you to get she is just not that in to you and is using you for the financial security you provide? You are wasting years of your life you will never get back. Your too damn nice for your own good. There is no honor in letting someone take advantage of you. 

Unless you get some fortitude you are going to end up one of these people going to your kids HS graduation alone while your wife is there married to her new affair partner. Bragging about her career that you bankrolled and undermining you with your kids. Never love someone so much that you allow them to take advantage of you with it. 

Tell her you want a divorce. Then see what she says. Or open your marriage, I am against that but that is what you basically have now. You provide a home for her while she goes out on dates. Tell her you want the truth about her affair 3 years ago. Already you have allowed her to rewrite your marriage so that all her unfulfillment is your fault. You are not responsible for her fulfillment. You are responsible to be her husband. 

Seriously you have gone about this all wrong for 3 years. Passive people get run over.


----------



## aine

Squid, you are moving in the right direction, cannot beleive you let her call all the shots for three years and put up with it. You have to pull up your big boy panties and be a man of action, a leader, the head of your household. YOur wife has you by the short and curlies and you have allowed it and for what exactly? You are not doing your kids any favours at all. 

Your wife has showed you her hand, you don't feature in her life long term, why pay for everything, help her coparent and do all while she cavorts, fraternises or even worse with an OM?

Get your ducks in a row, it is irrelevant whether she has cheated, she has told you she doesn't want you basically except as a money earner till kids grow up

1. Go 180 on the wife, tell her nothing about your plan,s discuss kids, household etc. Act like you don't care, emotionally detach from her. Start to dress better, lose weight, etc. Think about a future life with someone in it that loves you, appreciates you, understands you, she is out there.
2.Tell family and friends, ask for support from those who are close to you
3. Go do things for yourself, the gym, clubs, etc
4. Get IC to see why you would allow someone to walk over you for so long and take it.
5. Go see a lawyer, see what your options are, serve her as soon as possible.
She wants to find herself, give her wants she wants.


----------



## OnTheRocks

squid1035 said:


> Basically, the meltdown was due to deep depression, burnout and mid-life crisis. She blames me and our marriage for taking away her youth and that she wants to experience more.
> 
> There were suspicions of an affair then. But she literally had no other circles back then other than my friends and school families. She didn't really have any life back then. She saw herself as a weak person and somehow reconciling would mean she'd be going back to that person.
> 
> Twisted and sad. She's got a lot of issues that she's not willing to confront. The only good news is that she is finally willing to try going back to a therapist. I'm glad of that for her sake.
> 
> Good night, all.


She told you what she wants (to experience more) 3 years ago. You've both lived in limbo since.

Social media existed 3 years ago. Women have FAR more opportunities than men to be unfaithful. Seriously, it's probably 10:1. Males are everywhere, and will go to great lengths for some strange. It's a seller's market.


----------



## jsmart

Possible EA? Come on, this is a full on sexual PA which includes declarations of love. Why do you think she guards her phone and tried to disguise OM's name? So you can't read of how much they "love" each other and nor see the highly probable naughty pics they send each other. Her going off the grid is when they're getting busy.

Why would you want to continue with this farce of a marriage? No sex in 3 years? You're being celibate while she's having a fulfilling sex life. I'd bet my next mortgage payment that this is a full on sexual PA. In stall a VAR in her car and you'll probably have your evidence within week. 

Personally, I'd immediately cut her off financially. No whoring on your dime. Let her finance her lifestyle with the leftover money she has from her job, after paying her percentage of household income, share of the bills. Implement the 180 so you can start to detach, and file for D. You can co-parent better as a happy single guy than staying in such miserable marriage.


----------



## Satya

Since we don't have her side, I can only speak to yours. 

If she starts giving you sex again, are you going to be even more confused? I mean, it's been 3 years so if she is willing, does that mean therapy was a success? Or does it mean that she's in heavy damage mode? 

While I think it was a good step to confront her with your boundaries, your brain still wants to look at her as a mother first. Because you want to see the good and hope it will overcome or make up for the bad. While you're giving her the benefit of the doubt, try to remember she gave no such consideration to you or your children as she was carrying on with Matt. Being a good guy might make you sleep better at night, but IMO it isn't going to show her anything but a man afraid of losing his marriage. She will use that fear to her advantage... Be careful. 

You can call a spade a spade or you can call it a wrench or a basketball, if you so desire. If you want to save your marriage you must be willing to lose it and you must be ready to show her as much with your actions. 

She may have had a legitimate breakdown, but she is responsible for her own happiness. Looking to another for the responsibility of providing happiness is not a long term solution. So many women (and men) make this error in life, then look back and realize they are still missing that real happiness. So, something new and shiny comes along (Matt) with availability, and off she goes to create a new happy, secret world with him. She will still fail to find happiness because she is yet again looking in the wrong place. She's just not that far along yet, because you confronted her, luckily. 

Tread carefully is what I am trying to say. Own your faults, but hold her responsible for hers as well. You always have options. Even tough options are options.


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> Whelp,
> 
> I know this will underwhelm everyone here but we had a long talk tonight. Pretty much told her that if you look at all the evidence, everything points to, at least, an EA. She says she agreed and acted totally naive but still flatly denied. And I said every bit of this relationship with OM is a total disrespect to myself, our kids, and this family. She insisted that boundaries have been set and that nothing has or will happen, and that they only meet in public places, never in private. I explained how much our crappy marriage is already affecting the older kids and how they're protecting the youngest one from it. She agreed and turned sad. I honestly don't think it's physical but it's headed that way. I told her to look up limerence and tell me if any of that sounds familiar. And that she's either not being truthful with me, herself or is in total denial, but she's headed for an EA if it's not there yet. She went quiet.
> 
> I know I look weak as hell.
> 
> I reached out to a guy from my men's group and he gave some advice on what to do before I went to a divorce attorney. He went through something like this recently with a woman that was full on crazy. He told me to get my financial accounts in order first before I mention anything to her about divorce. I'll be consulting with an attorney in a few days.
> 
> Look, I have no intention of kicking her to the curb and leaving her out in the cold. She's the mother of my children and I do genuinely care about her. I told her that I can't take this marriage anymore and living a lie like this, even for the sake of our kids. She looked very worried. And I left it at that.
> 
> That's all I have thus far.


She's lying.


----------



## TRy

squid1035 said:


> Pretty much told her that if you look at all the evidence, everything points to, at least, an EA. She says she agreed and acted totally naive but still flatly denied. And I said every bit of this relationship with OM is a total disrespect to myself, our kids, and this family. She insisted that boundaries have been set and that nothing has or will happen


 You know in your heart that she is in at least an emotional affair (EA) with the other man (OM), but is telling you that sexually "nothing has or will happen" with him. Well guess what, since she has repeatedly told you that she will never have sex with you ever again, she is truthfully telling the OM that since meeting the OM that sexually "nothing has or will happen" with you.

Since she is emotionally involved with him instead of you, by definition their relationship is now the primary relationship, and your relationship with her had been reduced to nothing more than being her meal ticket, with the OM getting all the advantages of being the primary without any of the bills.


----------



## Malaise

squid1035 said:


> Now skip to a few weeks ago. She says she’s going to a lunch date with some friends and that she shouldn’t be long. I try texting her several times to get an update because I’m waiting at home with the kids to see what our plans should be, but she’s basically unreachable. I get a little worried because this is not like her to be gone for so long and without contact. Turns out she went to see the manatees in a marina not too far from home and that she was with just one of the 2 friends she originally planned to hang out with. Then a couple weeks later, while at work she texts me that she’s going to grab something where she works and will be home a little later than planned. I text back a little later, concerned because the weather reports show for tornado-type weather and that she should try to get home soon. No replies for about 2 hours. Then she arrives home. I asked her where she went for dinner and she said she went to happy hour and I asked where. She vaguely alludes to “over there”, which I kind of pick up on as a little evasive. That night, I’m sitting in our living room and her phone is on the coffee table at my feet. It lights up from a text message and I glance at it.


" Saw the manatee "


Is that what they're calling it nowadays ?

The time spent at the ' marina ' and 'happy hour' ... you know before I say it. And 'over there ', just call it his place for short.


----------



## eric1

GusPolinski said:


> She's lying.




I concur with what everyone is saying about squid moving in the right direction.

It doesn't matter if she is lying. Squid went to her, gave her his concerns and boundaries and she said NO. 

If I were to go to my wife with concerns about some dude I'd expect the concerns to be addressed, not dismissed. He'd be lucky if this is just lying. Atleast that's simple. We have a woman who won't meet him halfway.

Squid has the right idea. He has a very simple boundary and needs to enforce it. Seeing a lawyer is a great next step.

Squid I do disagree with your friend. You need to see a lawyer before getting your finances straight in an ideal world. What you do with money can have consequences down the line. A lawyer will help you navigate that.


----------



## MattMatt

@squid1035 I am in favour of reconciliation. And keeping a relationship going, I really am.

But! Not at any price.

Your wife has cheated. She has cheated on you emotionally and possibly physically. (Well, probably rather than possibly, now I think about it.)

But that's not the only cheating she has done. 

She has cheated you out of the love and support of your wife.

But she has also cheated your children out of a good, decent family life, by distancing herself from you and, if you think hard, probably to some extent from the children, too? 

She has made it *perfectly* clear that she doesn't want to be a real and functioning part of the family so, in that case, *she must leave the family physically as well as mentally. And she must do it not in six years time, but now!*








[/url]via Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG]


----------



## farsidejunky

Squid:

Nothing changes until you get sick and tired of being sick and tired.


----------



## SunCMars

Everything good, bad, indifferent and weird has been said {written}.

I own the weird.

Some more:

When I look at your marriage and the two notable characters, You and Mrs.Squid, all I see is slow motion.

Every facet of your life is done sloooowly. Slowly, is good if things end up well. Well, maybe always a little late. Three years in the desert, no kisses..save the Camel's.

If both of you eventually arrive at the well...to pucker, de-parch, parse/pare your problems. Its OK. But, you won't. Both of you are depressive.

You are both "low desire". LD. You can wait three years or more for the next eruption of Mount Etna. Somehow, you can avoid her Krakatoa under her Forested Mount for that long. Wow!

God Bless Ya. Not many men can do this. Not many women would wait that long for the farmer to plow her field and plant the seed. You have made her warm soil barren. She allows this also.

Maybe you practice Onanism to get you by, to get you off and "it" bye, bye. 

Maybe she does it too. Her? I doubt it.

Stop being a snail. Life is zipping past you.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Sq. your either fooling your self or she is fooling you...your being sucker punched and you don't even realize it...she is placating you, some people have to learn the hard way.


----------



## GuyInColorado

squid.... Do you really see you and your wife having sex again? I bet you don't. I bet she doesn't. I bet the thought repulses both of you. Just end your sham of a marriage. It's a joke and you can't be loving life. I've been in your shoes. I was in a 100% sexless marriage for 4 years (married 8) before I left. Hell, I never even got a BJ from my ex before and after marriage. My Ex wanted to R and I looked her in the face and told her I will never have sex with you again, so I'm doing you a favor. I hated her. I resented her. I was not attracted to her. I'm 13 months since separation (7 months since divorce) and having the best sex of my life at age 35. You can too. Just have to tell your kids, family, and friends that it's over. Once everyone knows, it's easy to move on and put the nail in the coffin.


----------



## inging

There are many of us who did what you are doing. There are many,many people still doing it everyday of their lives.


Gus said "she is lying" 
Almost all of can see the signs as clear as day.

She is lying straight to your face. 
That sadness you noticed is not for you or your family. It is for her. You put a small dent in her fantasy.

I am not going to tell you to man up. I am not going to tell you to go nuclear. No checking of her phone. There is no need here

Just Divorce her now.

Take some time to recover. Be with your kids because she is going to skip off for a while..


----------



## Sixlet

The only reason to jump when your spouse looks at your phone is because you think you're doing something they wouldn't like or you actually ARE doing something they wouldn't like. Either way it's bad news and I'd start getting things lined up for the day she confesses or the day you walk in on something/overhear something.


----------



## Grapes

farsidejunky said:


> Squid:
> 
> Nothing changes until you get sick and tired of being sick and tired.


So much this. Farside said this to me a while ago and there is alot of truth to it. It sounds like your approaching the point if being sick and tired of being sick and tired. Sick and tired is no way to live!




squid1035 said:


> Basically, the meltdown was due to deep depression, burnout and mid-life crisis. She blames me and our marriage for taking away her youth and that she wants to experience more.
> 
> There were suspicions of an affair then. *But she literally had no other circles back then other than my friends and school families. She didn't really have any life back then. She saw herself as a weak person and somehow reconciling would mean she'd be going back to that person.*
> 
> Twisted and sad. She's got a lot of issues that she's not willing to confront. The only good news is that she is finally willing to try going back to a therapist. I'm glad of that for her sake.
> 
> Good night, all.


Do NOT make the mistake of thinking this. In fact I would argue that because of this an A was more likely. Depression, lack of quality friends and a rocky marriage. All it would take is a little attention from a suitor and the rest is history.


----------



## sokillme

Sixlet said:


> The only reason to jump when your spouse looks at your phone is because you think you're doing something they wouldn't like or you actually ARE doing something they wouldn't like. Either way it's bad news and I'd start getting things lined up for the day she confesses or the day you walk in on something/overhear something.


Or you come home to divorce papers that are trying to take you to the cleaners. You may not want to do that to the mother of your children but if she is cheating she shows no such compunctions.


----------



## Thor

You'd better do your due diligence research into divorce laws where you live. Especially alimony and division of retirement assets. I think you should consult with an attorney. Most will give a free 15 to 30 minute consultation where you can get your basic questions answered about how things usually go where you live. If you wait for her to have the balls to file for divorce it will probably be after the 20 year mark in your marriage which may trigger unpleasant surprises financially for you. In my state it triggers permanent alimony! You may have pension or 401k issues at 20 years. Your personal financial situation may be different in important ways when one of you eventually files. You need to know what the legal landscape is now and what it will be in a few years for you.

When your kids get into college there are significant financial issues tied into divorce. Child support and college financial aid are two of them.

You've got teens, and I understand that. I've recently divorced with my kids being 20 - 27 yrs old. I chose to not divorce while they were in high school. Looking back it was a mistake. The logic was good, and the reasons were real, but the kids already know your marriage is terrible. As someone posted, they are seeing your marriage and they will duplicate it when they get older. It is far better for them to see you two being healthily divorced.


----------



## Marc878

squid1035 said:


> Whelp,
> 
> I know this will underwhelm everyone here but we had a long talk tonight. Pretty much told her that if you look at all the evidence, everything points to, at least, an EA. She says she agreed and acted totally naive but still flatly denied. And I said every bit of this relationship with OM is a total disrespect to myself, our kids, and this family. *She insisted that boundaries have been set and that nothing has or will happen, and that they only meet in public places, never in private.* I explained how much our crappy marriage is already affecting the older kids and how they're protecting the youngest one from it. She agreed and turned sad. * I honestly don't think it's physical but it's headed that way.* I told her to look up limerence and tell me if any of that sounds familiar. *And that she's either not being truthful with me, herself or is in total denial, but she's headed for an EA if it's not there yet. She went quiet. *
> 
> Just about every betrayed spouse does this. Wanting to believe it's just an EA. Clinging to that small sliver of hope.
> 
> Cheaters lie a lot.
> 
> My friend you are the one that's in denial.
> 
> I know I look weak as hell.
> 
> If your son or brother was you what would you tell him? What do you think your kids think about you? Is this a good example for them? Kids are a lot smarter than you think.
> 
> I reached out to a guy from my men's group and he gave some advice on what to do before I went to a divorce attorney. He went through something like this recently with a woman that was full on crazy. He told me to get my financial accounts in order first before I mention anything to her about divorce. I'll be consulting with an attorney in a few days.
> 
> Look, I have no intention of kicking her to the curb and leaving her out in the cold. She's the mother of my children and I do genuinely care about her. I told her that I can't take this marriage anymore and living a lie like this, even for the sake of our kids. She looked very worried. And I left it at that.
> 
> That's all I have thus far.


You'd better start looking out for yourself no one else is are they?

Read up you need it badly
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=1pw4gZdMLDODY7Aaw1SBFa.K3rA-


----------



## lordmayhem

squid1035 said:


> Basically, the meltdown was due to deep depression, burnout and mid-life crisis. She blames me and our marriage for taking away her youth and that she wants to experience more.
> 
> There were suspicions of an affair then. But she literally had no other circles back then other than my friends and school families. She didn't really have any life back then. She saw herself as a weak person and somehow reconciling would mean she'd be going back to that person.
> 
> Twisted and sad. She's got a lot of issues that she's not willing to confront. The only good news is that she is finally willing to try going back to a therapist. I'm glad of that for her sake.
> 
> Good night, all.


To be blunt: You're just the live-in babysitter that pays for everything. That is NOT attractive at all. All the red flags all there. You're as beta as they come and its extremely painful to read your posts. You live in a hell of your own making. As others have said, until you decide to get off your butt, you will continue to live this way until you decide enough is enough. I speculate that she and OM just laugh at you. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy for starters and seek help for your codependency.


----------



## squid1035

Lordmayhem,

I just read "Just Let Them Go". That is exactly the state I am in right now. I am still setting up a conversation with an attorney and doing a bit of due diligence with a VAR and trying to check her text messages. But at this point, letting her go is the simplest way to go about it.

Yes, I have devolved into a weak POS. I've hit rock bottom. I can't explain how much lighter I feel about just thinking about letting her go.

Enacting 180. Keep it coming.


----------



## anchorwatch

@squid1035, 

You've come a long way, my friend. You've put a lot of time and effort into this. There's no shame now, you tried. R takes more than one person. 

You deserve better. We all deserve better. One foot in front of the other. 

Best


----------



## jsmart

With you not having sex with your wife in over 3 years, you really should already be detached from her. It's obvious that she's detached. 

I strongly advise that you implement a modified 180. No hostility needed, just start doing your own thing. Reconnect with your male friends. Go out and do physical things like a team sport, take up a martial art, go hunting/fishing, go to a gun range. Just get out there and rediscover your inner warrior.

With 2 of your kids already in college and the other soon to be, you will be past having to pay child support to your wife. I hope she's working, if not, make her go get a job. You don't want to be punished by the "family" courts with having to support her. Most states don't take adultery into consideration for possible alimony. Remember that "no fault" divorce usually turns into his fault.


----------



## lordmayhem

squid1035 said:


> Lordmayhem,
> 
> I just read "Just Let Them Go". That is exactly the state I am in right now. I am still setting up a conversation with an attorney and doing a bit of due diligence with a VAR and trying to check her text messages. But at this point, letting her go is the simplest way to go about it.
> 
> Yes, I have devolved into a weak POS. I've hit rock bottom. I can't explain how much lighter I feel about just thinking about letting her go.
> 
> Enacting 180. Keep it coming.


Good job. Just keep in mind that the 180 is not for her or getting back at her or getting her back. It is a tool to help you detach so that you can make a decision to go on, with or without her.


----------



## TRy

squid1035 said:


> And I said every bit of this relationship with OM is a total disrespect to myself, our kids, and this family. She insisted that boundaries have been set and that nothing has or will happen, and that they only meet in public places, never in private.





squid1035 said:


> When she finally gave back the phone, I went straight to her messages, with her hovering, and saw a string of texts from someone who’s initials are most likely that of Matt. They read about a camper van project that he couldn’t wait to show her. Prior to this she did mention that Matt was leaving in March to travel and settle west and that he wanted to hang out with her and other friends before he left. And on another occasion that a “friend” bought a campervan and was planning a trip out west.


 I just noticed this. On one hand "she insisted that boundaries have been set", "and that they only meet in public places, never in private", and yet on the other hand you see texts from him to her "about a camper van project that he couldn't wait to show her." I could not imagine anything less public and more private than him showing her the inside of his camper van, where by definition there would be a bed and they would be alone in close quarters. Basically, this shows that she lied flat out about there ever being a boundary where they never meet in private. I know there are a lot of other things, but this just another confirmation.


----------



## MattMatt

Platonic friendships can often end up in bed.


----------



## TaDor

This is how it looks to us...


----------



## TaDor

Sorry squid1035, but you have red flags, red flares and rail-road crossing signs with big red flashing lights.

Seems like she started checking herself out 3 years ago. You have a room-mate you don't even have sex with. You even checked out yourself to some degree and as you stated, the kids already know.
There is a chance that when she had her meltdown, what really happened is that she was having an affair - got found out, and the other man broke up with your wife and went back to his marriage.

Right now, she's getting intimacy and far more likely than not - sex. Her answers to your questions seems to show it. Her reactions to her phone prove it. Cheaters keep their phones next to them and lock them up.

So I'll repeat what the others are saying.

1 - Go to a lawyer and get your ducks in order, see what your options are and prepare to file. You want to file first, don't wait for her to do it to you. She now knows that YOU are suspicious and seeing that the end is near.

2 - Come up with two plans. A nice quick divorce... you tell her "go have your freedom with Matt or whoever or life" - and you get the kids. If she goes for quick and easy, she can start her new life now and let you be the primary, you get the house and get the kids to school and keep their friends. Optional, she can have the guest room when she is passing through town - but otherwise, doesn't live there.
Plan B : she becomes evil crazy woman and wants the kids, the house, the money, etc. Which means, more money, time and aggravation. Hope she goes for Plan A, makes it quick and less stressful for the kids... so much faster and you both can remain as "friends" and will present the divorce as a united front that things have been over for a while and it's not the kids' fault. She moves out and you start dating,etc.

If she agreed with this, say "okay I'll have the lawyer draw up papers, we go into mediation" and the whole thing may cost you about $2000 in lawyer paper work, $500~2500 for mediation and $200~400 to file.

3 - You do 180 today.

4 - Go to the gym... loose weight. Look for new social activities to do with other guys and meet people in general. Do the gym first for about a month to lose 10 lbs or so before hitting the social life. Since you have a 16 and 17 yr old, they can watch the 11yr old when you go out every other weekend-night or whatever.

5 - Go to a stripper bar, have fun. You deserve it. Go by yourself or go with friends. IMHO, this helps to reintroduce you to women... not so drooling on your first dates. 

This looks good for you, your wayward wife and your children. They will prefer to see you both HAPPY than you both being miserable.


----------



## squid1035

Well, we had a fun weekend.

I planted a VAR in the wife's car on Saturday because she told me she was going to meet her female coworkers for an evening of bar-hopping. I went to hang with a buddy and told him my current woes.

Later when we were both home I asked what she did with the ladies and she said "ate. drank." Yeah. Super vague.

So I went to the VAR and, low and behold, there was evidence that she was with the guy. Nothing sexual, just them talking, where he's telling her how much he likes her and that he'll probably never meet anyone like her....really pouring on the charm. She pretty much rebuked him but did reiterate that she doesn't have feelings for me. Dagger through my heart.

Obviously, very upset, I woke her up at 3:30 in the morning and directly confronted her and asked her where she was and she immediately came clean. I stormed out and spent the rest of the night/morning at my mother's house. And returned later that morning to our house.

We talked for a really long time. She cried. Begged for forgiveness. Grovelled and pleaded that there was no sex, just talking and that that's all they ever do. That they had a list of things they wanted to do before he left town for good. Then the conversation steered towards how much she missed "us" and that the reason she was drawn to him is that he reminds her of me back when we met. Then we both cried and held each other and talked about how we missed each other and reminisced about how great our life was before and wondered if we could ever get that back.

She did say that at that moment was the first time she had felt something for me in many years. (i know)

Of course, I told her that what she did to me was so wrong on so many levels. I told her about trust being totally broken and that if I could ever forgive her I'd have to first really hate her for a really long time. I asked how she could possibly bring so much risk and upheaval into our house and family.

She expressed guilt and shame and was crying mess mostly over how much she knew she hurt me.

I will say that this was the first time since she checked out that she has ever seemed open to reconciliation. We both agreed that we let the marriage go on autopilot for a long time even when we saw it heading for the cliff. I told her that we need to step away from the marriage for a while, get our heads straight, learn some skills, and then rebuild our relationship from the ground up. Find a new happy. She said that scared her but was open to the idea.

Later in the day I told her that I needed one thing from her to make things better. She knew that I was going to tell her to cut off contact with OP. She freaked out a bit. Asked if she could say goodbye. I said maybe, but I'd have to listen to the conversation to make sure she followed through on it. It's non-negotiable. If she couldn't do this, she could go and be with him. She said that was never the plan and knew that their relationship, at least where could spend time together, had an expiration date.

I said it's either me and her in a relationship or nothing at all. This isn't an open marriage. You either stay here and work on the marriage or go. If we still are unable to work things out then we'll go our separate ways.

In the 2 plus years that she checked out we never really worked specifically on the marriage. I just played damage control and attempted to repair what I thought was broken and pretty much lost myself in that process.

I know that I cannot believe a single word she says. I know this. She's done so much back-pedaling it's very difficult to decipher what is real and what's not. I at least know that everything regarding him could be a bold-face lie. And that anything she says to me regarding our relationship could be a lie to have her cake and eat it too. 

I'm going to insist upon total transparency or nothing at all. For the first time I have the power in the relationship and she knows it, and I intend to lead us through this towards reconciliation. If we can't make it work then at least I know I did everything I could.

I know you're all thinking how could I put up with so much bulls***. I believe there's something that can be saved here and so much to lose if we just gave up. That sounds really corny, I know. But that's where I'm at now.

Wounded as hell, but still here.


----------



## GusPolinski

She's lying.


----------



## TDSC60

Hope you did not tell her about the VAR.

Get it back in the car and do not be surprised when you hear her talking to him again.

The only honest thing you have heard her say in 4 years was when she told him that she had no feelings for you. That did not change because she got caught.


----------



## TaDor

If you had been here for a while... you should have tried to calm down and not show your hand how you may know things.

2~3 years of no sex. You both really don't seem to care about each other. She has already checked out. You are fighting a major huge uphill battle.
If this type of thing has been going on for a few weeks or months, then something to go for. 3 years of being dead to each other?

At best, maybe go to MC together and see if a therapist can help figure out if you both should stay or go. But with the folks here... it seems your marriage is dead.

She wants to keep up appearances... she already told you she was ready to leave when the kids got older.


----------



## GusPolinski

TaDor said:


> She wants to keep up appearances... she already told you she was ready to leave when the kids got older.


Exactly correct.

If she "rebuffed" this guy at all, it's because she never intended to leave her family for him.

_Yet._

Smart money says that didn't keep her from having sex with him, though.


----------



## eric1

She's doing massive damage control.

And don't worry about her saying goodbye - she has already been in contact with him. But on the 1% chance she hasn't , of F'ing course she doesn't give this scum the courtesy of a goodbye. Don't even consider it.


----------



## Marc878

squid1035 said:


> Well, we had a fun weekend.
> 
> I planted a VAR in the wife's car on Saturday because she told me she was going to meet her female coworkers for an evening of bar-hopping. I went to hang with a buddy and told him my current woes.
> 
> Later when we were both home I asked what she did with the ladies and she said "ate. drank." Yeah. Super vague.
> 
> So I went to the VAR and, low and behold, there was evidence that she was with the guy. Nothing sexual, just them talking, where he's telling her how much he likes her and that he'll probably never meet anyone like her....really pouring on the charm. She pretty much rebuked him but did reiterate that she doesn't have feelings for me. Dagger through my heart.
> 
> Obviously, very upset, I woke her up at 3:30 in the morning and directly confronted her and asked her where she was and she immediately came clean. I stormed out and spent the rest of the night/morning at my mother's house. And returned later that morning to our house.
> 
> We talked for a really long time. * She cried. Begged for forgiveness. * Grovelled and pleaded that there was no sex, just talking and that that's all they ever do. That they had a list of things they wanted to do before he left town for good. Then the conversation steered towards how much she missed "us" and that the reason she was drawn to him is that he reminds her of me back when we met. Then we both cried and held each other and talked about how we missed each other and reminisced about how great our life was before and wondered if we could ever get that back.
> 
> She did say that at that moment was the first time she had felt something for me in many years. (i know)
> 
> Regret for getting caught only
> 
> Of course, I told her that what she did to me was so wrong on so many levels. I told her about trust being totally broken and that if I could ever forgive her I'd have to first really hate her for a really long time. I asked how she could possibly bring so much risk and upheaval into our house and family.
> 
> She expressed guilt and shame and was crying mess mostly over how much she knew she hurt me.
> 
> I will say that this was the first time since she checked out that she has ever seemed open to reconciliation. We both agreed that we let the marriage go on autopilot for a long time even when we saw it heading for the cliff. I told her that we need to step away from the marriage for a while, get our heads straight, learn some skills, and then rebuild our relationship from the ground up. Find a new happy. She said that scared her but was open to the idea.
> 
> Later in the day I told her that I needed one thing from her to make things better. She knew that I was going to tell her to cut off contact with OP. She freaked out a bit. *Asked if she could say goodbye. I said maybe, but I'd have to listen to the conversation to make sure she followed through on it. It's non-negotiable. If she couldn't do this, she could go and be with him.* She said that was never the plan and knew that their relationship, at least where could spend time together, had an expiration date.
> 
> Stupid idea. Him or you take it or leave it. If you allow this its weakness on your part. Say goodbye to an affair partner that should have never happened? Really?
> 
> I said it's either me and her in a relationship or nothing at all. This isn't an open marriage. You either stay here and work on the marriage or go. If we still are unable to work things out then we'll go our separate ways.
> 
> In the 2 plus years that she checked out we never really worked specifically on the marriage. I just played damage control and attempted to repair what I thought was broken and pretty much lost myself in that process.
> 
> You can never work hard enough or nice them back enough to make a difference. Hope you get this now.
> 
> I know that I cannot believe a single word she says. I know this. She's done so much back-pedaling it's very difficult to decipher what is real and what's not. I at least know that everything regarding him could be a bold-face lie. And that anything she says to me regarding our relationship could be a lie to have her cake and eat it too.
> 
> Cheaters lie a lot. Actions will tell you what you need to know.
> 
> I'm going to insist upon total transparency or nothing at all. For the first time I have the power in the relationship and she knows it, and I intend to lead us through this towards reconciliation. If we can't make it work then at least I know I did everything I could.
> 
> I know you're all thinking how could I put up with so much bulls***. I believe there's something that can be saved here and so much to lose if we just gave up. That sounds really corny, I know. But that's where I'm at now.
> 
> You can't do it yourself. If she's not in then end it. Quit being played for a fool.
> 
> Wounded as hell, but still here.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to read the MMSLP book below.........like four years ago to be honest.

No one has ever come her with this many red flags and especially the severity of the flags flying here and there not been an affair. As a matter of fact, google serial cheater and see how screwed up in the head they are.

She has stolen three years of your life for her own selfish reasons.......and let you pay for it. Do you not see how your reaction/inaction made you unfit husband material. Forget the morality of it, look at it biologically and how a woman sees a fitting mate.


----------



## Jasel

This is like watching a train wreck on repeat....


----------



## TRy

squid1035 said:


> Nothing sexual, just them talking, where he's telling her how much he likes her and that he'll probably never meet anyone like her....really pouring on the charm. She pretty much rebuked him but did reiterate that she doesn't have feelings for me. Dagger through my heart.


 It was sexual. A smart guy that wants sex with a married woman knows that talking dirty is not usually a good idea. When he told her "how much he likes her and that he'll probably never meet anyone like her", that was him telling her that he wants more than a platonic friend relationship with her. Her telling him that "she doesn't have feelings for" you was her telling him that she is no longer in a romantic relationship with you where the other man needs to consider her taken, and that she is romantically available if he keeps pursuing her. They may not have used sexual words, but him saying that he wants her, and her saying that she is available, was all about romance and the potential for a sexual relationship.


----------



## arbitrator

TRy said:


> It was sexual. A smart guy that wants sex with a married woman knows that talking dirty is not usually a good idea. When he told her "how much he likes her and that he'll probably never meet anyone like her", that was him telling her that he wants more than a platonic friend relationship with her. Her telling him that "she doesn't have feelings for" you was her telling him that she is no longer in a romantic relationship with you where the other man needs to consider her taken, and that she is romantically available if he keeps pursuing her. They may not have used sexual words, but him saying that he wants her, and her saying that she is available, was all about romance and the potential for a sexual relationship.


*Late to the party here, @squid1035 ~ but you unceremoniously became her "Plan B" several years back whenever she first vacated the sanctity of your boudoir! It was at that exact moment that you became her caregiver and chief financier rather than her H!

"Matt" conveniently came down the pike as her new "Plan A" candidate and has largely remained in that category ever since!

It's all so simple for her ~ if she wants something indicative of love and companionship, say from the kids, she gets that at the family home, even your nearness to her in bed seems awfully nice to her!

But whenever she wants her "ashes hauled," well that's Matts job now! Whatever the content is of her text messages to and from him will tell you more than you will ever want to know about that sordid, clandestine activity of theirs!

Remedy? Time for you to fully take the bull by the horns and to execute "the 180" by visiting with a good "piranha" family attorney to advise you on both your marital property and child custodial rights! And, perchance that he is indeed married, then "Mrs. Matt" needs to know all about it, as does the HR Department at their place of employment!

The better news here is that lacking any sex with her in these later years of your marriage, there is probably no need for you to procure a medical test for STD's, although getting one certainly wouldn't hurt!

Sorry to see you here at TAM, but you are now in the best counsel in the world from both respectable men and women who have trodden down the same unfortunate path that you are now on!*


----------



## MattMatt

Matt wants your wife. Because she is sexy and because she has sent up a signal flare of the type that sky writes in letters of fire "I am available. Please be patient."


----------



## arbitrator

TRy said:


> I just noticed this. On one hand "she insisted that boundaries have been set", "and that they only meet in public places, never in private", and yet on the other hand you see texts from him to her "about a camper van project that he couldn't wait to show her." I could not imagine anything less public and more private than him showing her the inside of his camper van, where by definition there would be a bed and they would be alone in close quarters. Basically, this shows that she lied flat out about there ever being a boundary where they never meet in private. I know there are a lot of other things, but this just another confirmation.


*Do rest assured that the two of them have already "been camping," and several times over, I might add!*


----------



## TaDor

When my wayward was cheating - there was little to no actual sex talk in their texts. Changing of this name? Hovering over her phone, 3 years of no sex.

Your wife is done. Your marriage is done. File for D and celebrate.


----------



## arbitrator

squid1035 said:


> Well, we had a fun weekend.
> 
> I planted a VAR in the wife's car on Saturday because she told me she was going to meet her female coworkers for an evening of bar-hopping. I went to hang with a buddy and told him my current woes.
> 
> Later when we were both home I asked what she did with the ladies and she said "ate. drank." Yeah. Super vague.
> 
> So I went to the VAR and, low and behold, there was evidence that she was with the guy. Nothing sexual, just them talking, where he's telling her how much he likes her and that he'll probably never meet anyone like her....really pouring on the charm. She pretty much rebuked him but did reiterate that she doesn't have feelings for me. Dagger through my heart.
> 
> Obviously, very upset, I woke her up at 3:30 in the morning and directly confronted her and asked her where she was and she immediately came clean. I stormed out and spent the rest of the night/morning at my mother's house. And returned later that morning to our house.
> 
> We talked for a really long time. She cried. Begged for forgiveness. Grovelled and pleaded that there was no sex, just talking and that that's all they ever do. That they had a list of things they wanted to do before he left town for good. Then the conversation steered towards how much she missed "us" and that the reason she was drawn to him is that he reminds her of me back when we met. Then we both cried and held each other and talked about how we missed each other and reminisced about how great our life was before and wondered if we could ever get that back.
> 
> She did say that at that moment was the first time she had felt something for me in many years. (i know)
> 
> Of course, I told her that what she did to me was so wrong on so many levels. I told her about trust being totally broken and that if I could ever forgive her I'd have to first really hate her for a really long time. I asked how she could possibly bring so much risk and upheaval into our house and family.
> 
> She expressed guilt and shame and was crying mess mostly over how much she knew she hurt me.
> 
> I will say that this was the first time since she checked out that she has ever seemed open to reconciliation. We both agreed that we let the marriage go on autopilot for a long time even when we saw it heading for the cliff. I told her that we need to step away from the marriage for a while, get our heads straight, learn some skills, and then rebuild our relationship from the ground up. Find a new happy. She said that scared her but was open to the idea.
> 
> Later in the day I told her that I needed one thing from her to make things better. She knew that I was going to tell her to cut off contact with OP. She freaked out a bit. Asked if she could say goodbye. I said maybe, but I'd have to listen to the conversation to make sure she followed through on it. It's non-negotiable. If she couldn't do this, she could go and be with him. She said that was never the plan and knew that their relationship, at least where could spend time together, had an expiration date.
> 
> I said it's either me and her in a relationship or nothing at all. This isn't an open marriage. You either stay here and work on the marriage or go. If we still are unable to work things out then we'll go our separate ways.
> 
> In the 2 plus years that she checked out we never really worked specifically on the marriage. I just played damage control and attempted to repair what I thought was broken and pretty much lost myself in that process.
> 
> I know that I cannot believe a single word she says. I know this. She's done so much back-pedaling it's very difficult to decipher what is real and what's not. I at least know that everything regarding him could be a bold-face lie. And that anything she says to me regarding our relationship could be a lie to have her cake and eat it too.
> 
> I'm going to insist upon total transparency or nothing at all. For the first time I have the power in the relationship and she knows it, and I intend to lead us through this towards reconciliation. If we can't make it work then at least I know I did everything I could.
> 
> I know you're all thinking how could I put up with so much bulls***. I believe there's something that can be saved here and so much to lose if we just gave up. That sounds really corny, I know. But that's where I'm at now.
> 
> Wounded as hell, but still here.


*So exactly what "scintilla of truth" that escaped her quivering lips and "broken heart" now makes this whole situation reversible and repairable?

Those crocodile tears and heartfelt apologies of hers are only as good until whenever the "next time" comes rolling around!

She absolutely seems to be playing you for a blue haze fool!*


----------



## Thor

Rule #1: Never ever reveal your source of information.

Rule #2: See Rule #1.


I bet you'll feel a lot better when you get a divorce from her. Hey, I fought for my marriage for many years after xw gave up. I so desperately wanted back the girl I'd married and the marriage I thought I'd once had. Life is fine after divorce. Much less stress! Imperfect, yes. But gone is the craziness and emotional distress.


----------



## squid1035

So kind of a side note. We went to an impromptu MC last night. Her idea, not mine. Kind of re-hashed everything about our marriage. She got real defensive when she saw that me and the MC were on the same page and kind of teaming up on her.

He pointed out that she's going through a mid-life crisis and couldn't understand her need to want to leave. Blah, blah, blah. Same old s***. I was pretty much expecting that she was going to reveal a further aspect of her EA or that we'd end up spinning our wheels about our marriage/her wanting to be independent. It was the latter for sure.

Later, after we left and were sitting in the car to leave, I told her that I was really coming to terms with the marriage going under. I was ready for the divorce and kind of relieved to let go of the whole thing. She went quiet and acted scared. We then commenced to talk for another 2 hours in the parking lot about everything. The good times, the bad times. What we did wrong, encouraged each other for things we did right. No animosity whatsoever. Holding hands. Just really open communication. It was really weird. Maybe this is normal. She did say just before we went to bed that she felt like her walls were totally gone for the first time in forever. She even commented that tonight was really great. Later she asked if it had something to do with that we have both come to terms with letting go and not having the pressure of making the marriage work. I said most likely.

Even the next morning, she wanted to keep the conversation going but we had to get ready to take the kids to work.

She's agreed to 6 more MCs and IC and attending a women's group.

Either way, I'm starting to think ahead to what life apart will be like.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Oh boy, 3 years? Well, we know the hysterical bonding is in full swing right now. 

This is always interesting to me when it appears. The Betrayed at some point always subtly agrees with the wayward. So, she checked out and you did damage control. Explain to me how that is "we didn't work on the marriage." No, you are utterly wrong. Even damage control is working on the marriage. I am not saying you are perfect, but you can't repair a MARRIAGE if only one person is trying. Yes, even if the help is only damage control and repairing what is wrong. She let you run around, in the dark, trying to fix something with no input from her. No, there is no we in this scenario, it is just "me" in this instance.
Blaming yourself is only going to let her do the same thing again. No, right now, she is in fight or flight mode. You have no power at all.


----------



## Marc878

Squid, unless you really let go and start detaching (180 no contact) you'll continue to be in limbo.


----------



## TaDor

MC should have been 3 years ago...

You both rug-swept your marriage to death. On top of that... an EA and likely PA.

The MC and IC is a good - last ditch effort to see if anything is worth saving.


----------



## Clay2013

I would file for divorce. I would show her your serious about her stepping back into the marriage 100% or her just leaving. I would bet the reason she is not showing you real remorse is because she is wondering what life will be like with the OM. I would let her go figure that out. 

Never stay with a cheater. Who cares if they had sex or not. The moment she went to meet with him she showed you that you were no longer number one in her life. She backs that up with the way she has talked to you. I would file and start 180. 

C


----------



## GusPolinski

She's probably happy that she's managed to make it through to the other side of this w/o her PA coming to light.

Image intact, yay!


----------



## Be smart

My friend she is using you because she needs someone who is going to pay for her school and the house she is living in. 

Every time you start conversation with your wife she goes back. She talks about history and your past. She refuses to talk about real problems and that is Matt. 

Sure you had problems,I saw your old threads but she cant blame you for those. Even now when you want to talk about her Affair she blames you.

She wanted to travel with this guy or whatever. She went to dates with him,lied to you and your kids about it. You havent touched her in 3 years,didnt even see her naked. . 

Stop destroying your life and life of your kids. Trust me they can see your pain. You dont want them to live life like you do,right ?

Stay strong.


----------



## squid1035

Well this took a weird turn. Proceeding with caution. Stand by.


----------



## GusPolinski

Ruh roh.


----------



## Nucking Futs

squid1035 said:


> Well this took a weird turn. Proceeding with caution. Stand by.


Uh oh, another shape-shifting lizard person from the secret antarctic nazi base?


----------



## Tobyboy

squid1035 said:


> Well this took a weird turn. Proceeding with caution. Stand by.


Oh boy......what she want? An open marriage?


----------



## squid1035

She wants to try and commit back to the marriage. Reconciliation. Yes, PA came to light.

She offered NC with OM, access to her phone, emails...full transparency. Obviously, I'm on high alert.  A full 180 out of the blue? Something is afoot.


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> She wants to try and commit back to the marriage. Reconciliation. Yes, PA came to light.
> 
> She offered NC with OM, access to her phone, emails...full transparency. Obviously, I'm on high alert. A full 180 out of the blue? Something is afoot.


Hmm...

This guy married?

Is he co-worker?


----------



## squid1035

GusPolinski said:


> Hmm...
> 
> This guy married?
> 
> Is he co-worker?



Not married. Leaving town in a couple weeks. Was a coworker. Got fired a month ago. Look, I'm not taking this at all at face value. Something is up. I'm trying to figure out what.


----------



## GusPolinski

Just went back to your initial post in this thread and I see that yes, he's a co-worker.

So basically he knows that you know what's up and they're colluding on how to mitigate the fallout.

Smart money says that she's looking to buy time for a clean exit.

Oh, and there's this...



squid1035 said:


> Whenever we would talk about the state of our marriage she would, however, always regress to the memory of how much she put the marriage before herself throughout that time. She felt she lost herself and sees herself as weak in those years and that she never wants to become that person again. *So a thought of us being together romantically in the future has never entered her mind. She fully believes that it will never happen and that eventually we will go our separate ways as soon as our youngest is off to college.*


ETA: Just read your last post. What's the word on why he was fired?


----------



## Marc878

She's in panic mode to regain her Plan B so she won't be high and dry.

Better get STD tests. Unless she cut you off for her boyfriend.


----------



## Marc878

squid1035 said:


> She wants to try and commit back to the marriage. Reconciliation. *Yes, PA came to light.*
> 
> She offered NC with OM, access to her phone, emails...full transparency. Obviously, I'm on high alert. A full 180 out of the blue? Something is afoot.


Did you discover? Or she confess? Hmmmmm maybe it blew up and she was Covering before you got word.

Nice job in sniffing out this doesn't add up.


----------



## squid1035

GusPolinski said:


> ETA: Just read your last post. What's the word on why he was fired?


Just restructuring. He pretty much lives in a van...down by the river.


----------



## Marc878

As you've found cheaters lie a lot. For gods sake don't jump back into this without taking some time to think. See the attorney and see what your rights are. Just because you now know doesn't mean a thing.


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> Just restructuring. He pretty much lives in a van...down by the river.


It's a good thing you didn't have a VAR in there -- you'd be scarred.


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> Just restructuring. He pretty much lives in a van...down by the river.


Once the divorce is done, hand her a really nice set of floor mats and seat covers and say, "Here -- I got you a house-warming gift."


:lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol:

Sorry man... I know you're hurting.


----------



## Marc878

squid1035 said:


> Just restructuring. *He pretty much lives in a van...down by the river.*


Squid,

You should divorce her just for the stupidity of this. Lord!


----------



## Marc878

GusPolinski said:


> Once the divorce is done, hand her a really nice set of floor mats and seat covers and say, "Here -- I got you a house-warming gift."
> 
> 
> :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol:
> 
> Sorry man... I know you're hurting.


I dunno those are pretty expensive. Those Chritsmas tree auto deodorizers are inexpensive and they smell good. Come in different fragrances. You could get them an economy pack.


----------



## GusPolinski

Marc878 said:


> I dunno those are pretty expensive. Those Chritsmas tree auto deodorizers are inexpensive and they smell good. Come in different fragrances. You could get them an economy pack.


Hmm... I wonder if anyone sells a latex-scented deodorizer.


----------



## Tobyboy

Did she admit the PA or did you find out on your own?


----------



## squid1035

Tobyboy said:


> Did she admit the PA or did you find out on your own?


admitted


----------



## Tobyboy

squid1035 said:


> admitted


Changes nothing. Makes one wonder how many more PA she's had in the last 3 years! Poly would be an absolute must before I would consider reconciliation.


----------



## zoodles_13

Hi Squid. I think you have done very well considering everything. It sounds like she is growing as an individual, but not as a partner. I would recommend going to counselling as a couple either with someone who is trained in emotion focused couples therapy or possibly the satir approach as they both will assist in the identification of emotions and roles in relationships. 

Kudos for being open and honest with her. I agree with you that her desire to hide things is a red flag (taking you at your word you are not typically a jealous type). 

I agree with her ability and right to have friendships outside of work with her colleagues. 

It comes to this imo. Do you trust her? This is not the question where "yes, but" or "i think so" cuts it be honest with yourself. If you do trust her, then keep the lines of communication open, and try dating her again. Ask her out on dates. Woo her. Reconnect that ways. If your answer is no, then you have three options. Live the facade of happy marriage as you are now. Pursue separate lives. Or can trust and the relationship be rebuilt? There is always a possibility for relationships and trust to be rebuilt. But both parties have to be 100_ committed to doing that.

I wish you the best of luck. Remember; relationships are not always sunshine and unicorns. Working hard on your relationship is admirable and honourable and an excwllent trait and quality to model for your children. However, if only ONE of you is working on the relationship, it wont get very far fast. I would propose to her that she either reinvest in the relationship, even in a new form where she can not lose herself again or she needs to be honest with herself and you, and respectful towards you and declare that she is unable and/or unwilling to put the work and effort into your marriage. 

I hope ibwas able to help somewhat.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## GusPolinski

zoodles_13 said:


> Hi Squid. I think you have done very well considering everything. It sounds like she is growing as an individual, but not as a partner. I would recommend going to counselling as a couple either with someone who is trained in emotion focused couples therapy or possibly the satir approach as they both will assist in the identification of emotions and roles in relationships.
> 
> Kudos for being open and honest with her. I agree with you that her desire to hide things is a red flag (taking you at your word you are not typically a jealous type).
> 
> I agree with her ability and right to have friendships outside of work with her colleagues.
> 
> It comes to this imo. Do you trust her? This is not the question where "yes, but" or "i think so" cuts it be honest with yourself. If you do trust her, then keep the lines of communication open, and try dating her again. Ask her out on dates. Woo her. Reconnect that ways. If your answer is no, then you have three options. Live the facade of happy marriage as you are now. Pursue separate lives. Or can trust and the relationship be rebuilt? There is always a possibility for relationships and trust to be rebuilt. But both parties have to be 100_ committed to doing that.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck. Remember; relationships are not always sunshine and unicorns. Working hard on your relationship is admirable and honourable and an excwllent trait and quality to model for your children. However, if only ONE of you is working on the relationship, it wont get very far fast. I would propose to her that she either reinvest in the relationship, even in a new form where she can not lose herself again or she needs to be honest with herself and you, and respectful towards you and declare that she is unable and/or unwilling to put the work and effort into your marriage.
> 
> I hope ibwas able to help somewhat.


Keep reading.


----------



## Marc878

zoodles_13 said:


> Hi Squid. I think you have done very well considering everything. *It sounds like she is growing as an individual*, but not as a partner. I would recommend going to counselling as a couple either with someone who is trained in emotion focused couples therapy or possibly the satir approach as they both will assist in the identification of emotions and roles in relationships.
> 
> Kudos for being open and honest with her. I agree with you that her desire to hide things is a red flag (taking you at your word you are not typically a jealous type).
> 
> *I agree with her ability and right to have friendships outside of work with her colleagues.*
> 
> It comes to this imo. Do you trust her? This is not the question where "yes, but" or "i think so" cuts it be honest with yourself. If you do trust her, then keep the lines of communication open, and try dating her again. Ask her out on dates. Woo her. Reconnect that ways. If your answer is no, then you have three options. Live the facade of happy marriage as you are now. Pursue separate lives. Or can trust and the relationship be rebuilt? There is always a possibility for relationships and trust to be rebuilt. But both parties have to be 100_ committed to doing that.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck. Remember; relationships are not always *sunshine and unicorns.* Working hard on your relationship is admirable and honourable and an excwllent trait and quality to model for your children. However, if only ONE of you is working on the relationship, it wont get very far fast. I would propose to her that she either reinvest in the relationship, even in a new form where she can not lose herself again or she needs to be honest with herself and you, and respectful towards you and declare that she is unable and/or unwilling to put the work and effort into your marriage.
> 
> I hope ibwas able to help somewhat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


um, well in case you missed it she's been getting **** therapy from a friend at work.

I don't know about Squid but you've helped me tremendously. I haven't laughed this hard in weeks!!!!!


----------



## manwithnoname

zoodles_13 said:


> Hi Squid. I think you have done very well considering everything. It sounds like she is growing as an individual, but not as a partner. I would recommend going to counselling as a couple either with someone who is trained in emotion focused couples therapy or possibly the satir approach as they both will assist in the identification of emotions and roles in relationships.
> 
> Kudos for being open and honest with her. I agree with you that her desire to hide things is a red flag (taking you at your word you are not typically a jealous type).
> 
> I agree with her ability and right to have friendships outside of work with her colleagues.
> 
> It comes to this imo. Do you trust her? This is not the question where "yes, but" or "i think so" cuts it be honest with yourself. If you do trust her, then keep the lines of communication open, and try dating her again. Ask her out on dates. Woo her. Reconnect that ways. If your answer is no, then you have three options. Live the facade of happy marriage as you are now. Pursue separate lives. Or can trust and the relationship be rebuilt? There is always a possibility for relationships and trust to be rebuilt. But both parties have to be 100_ committed to doing that.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck. Remember; relationships are not always sunshine and unicorns. Working hard on your relationship is admirable and honourable and an excwllent trait and quality to model for your children. However, if only ONE of you is working on the relationship, it wont get very far fast. I would propose to her that she either reinvest in the relationship, even in a new form where she can not lose herself again or she needs to be honest with herself and you, and respectful towards you and declare that she is unable and/or unwilling to put the work and effort into your marriage.
> 
> I hope ibwas able to help somewhat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk





I'm hoping you read a different thread and posted here in error. Otherwise.....:slap:


----------



## Satya

It's pure damage control. 

She knows without you she'd be up Schmidt's Creek without a paddle. Especially if her only other prospect is Mr. Van Down by the River. 

Do not make any rash or hasty decisions. 

Go get STD tested and insist she does, too. 

Live in reality - your wife has just taken a royal poo on your marriage. You don't reward her with hugs and hands holding! 

Or, are you codependent?


----------



## dubsey

Make her write a timeline of everything, and I mean everything, that happened between them. Let her know, up front, you will do your best to verify the truth and any absences to the timeline you uncover will have a massive affect on the situation. Be sure to let her know that by doing this, does not guarantee anything, and any efforts to protect you from the truth that are uncovered later will be worse for you than her current betrayal.

The worst thing you could have happen going forward is finding something new. Take this opportunity to rip the band-aid. Finding something new after all of this will reset your clock to zero and you'll have to start the process all over again.


----------



## eric1

Marc878 said:


> She's in panic mode to regain her Plan B so she won't be high and dry.
> 
> Better get STD tests. Unless she cut you off for her boyfriend.


She was banking on her boyfriend committing to her. When he was leaving town she was holding out hope that he would stay for her. He's not.


----------



## ButtPunch

eric1 said:


> She was banking on her boyfriend committing to her. When he was leaving town she was holding out hope that he would stay for her. He's not.


This....Do not give her an answer. Tell her you need time to think about things.

Because you do.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Squid I think its worse than the others are saying.

She knew this guy was not a sure bet (he lived in a van for Christ's sake!) but ****ed him anyway. She needed you to be the constant safe bet in her life while she got her kicks from guys like him. What this means is that she wanted you around while she continued to find guys like him. Which would suggest that she was planning to do this many more times and have you as her safety net. Which in turn would suggest that she has probably done this in the past.

That is why a poly is a must.

Now, as to why she came clean about this is because you kind of discovered it and made life tough for her. So she didn't admit it - you discovered it. Else she would have moved on to hobo #2 and so on.

Be very careful here. You need to know that she is not that into you.


----------



## manfromlamancha

What details has she given you so far ? How long ? How many times ? What did they do actually ? Has he been in your house ? Have they done anything that she hasn't done for you ? Did they profess love ? Did she talk about you to him ? The chances are you will not get all of these details but that is going to be the hurdle you will need to over come (and there will be others too) to even think about R.


----------



## GusPolinski

Marc878 said:


> um, well in case you missed it she's been getting **** therapy from a friend at work.
> 
> I don't know about Squid but you've helped me tremendously. I haven't laughed this hard in weeks!!!!!


I'm thinking that @zoodles_13 was replying to OP's initial post.


----------



## GusPolinski

manfromlamancha said:


> What details has she given you so far ? How long ?


I'll save everyone some time here...

It's been going on just over 3 years, and probably not with _just *this*_ OM.


----------



## TX-SC

It sounds to me like she feels she is giving you a gift in offering this R. I'd like to hear more about how this conversation came about and what was said. Is she remorseful or just "matter of fact" about this? 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


----------



## GusPolinski

@squid1035, you should probably limit your responses to her from here on out to nothing more than...

"Noted."

:lol: :rofl:


----------



## Thor

Squid, you need time to regroup right now.

If her screwing van guy is a deal breaker for you, then go ahead and file for divorce. There's nothing wrong or rash with making that decision.

But, if you're unsure what you want to do, or if you think you'd like to try to reconcile, don't make any promises or decisions. Don't have sex with her! In some places it is considered by the court to be forgiveness for her cheating if you have sex with her after finding out about the affair. And, in some places it can make a difference in a divorce. It may not where you live, but do some research before you jump in bed with her. Also, just as importantly, sex can totally cloud your judgement. Hoovering is a term used sometimes to describe how a woman will use sex and affection to derail a man's will to end the relationship. Many couples engage in hysterical bonding, which is having sex like crazy. And, quite importantly, she could get pregnant if you have sex.

Eat healthy, get exercise, cut out the booze, cigs, and sugary junk food.

You should consult with an attorney asap. Most will give a free 15 to 30 minute consultation where you can find out how things generally work where you live. You need this information.


----------



## squid1035

TX-SC said:


> It sounds to me like she feels she is giving you a gift in offering this R. I'd like to hear more about how this conversation came about and what was said. Is she remorseful or just "matter of fact" about this?
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


She's seemed very remorseful. She was reluctant to give details but after fully explaining why I felt I needed to know, she gave a completely detailed timeline as to how the relationship unfolded. She was brutally honest and revealing...much to my discomfort. But I appreciate how transparent she is. I don't expect anyone here to understand why I want to try and and reconcile. And honestly I don't care. The person that I knew before she checked out (compared to the ghost of a person that's been present for the last 3 years) is clearly back in every way. Yes, I have a crapload of doubt and suspicion. And I made that abundantly clear to her. Every action and response is being placed under the highest scrutiny. Compared to how she was just a week ago...she's been nearly unashamedly open. It's clear that she'd rather not disclose information, but she does so because she understands it's what I need.

And the effort it takes to forgive and try and move forward is superhuman. Any emotion that I feel, I immediately tell her and try to process. Same with her.

Everybody here can eat a bag of d***s for all I care. No, we haven't simply reverted back to a happy normal life. We're both extremely nervous. Like at an moment this whole thing can come crashing down. We're trying to invest and fully respect the process of rebuilding. "No shortcuts" she said. At this point, only time will tell.


----------



## TX-SC

squid1035 said:


> She's seemed very remorseful. She was reluctant to give details but after fully explaining why I felt I needed to know, she gave a completely detailed timeline as to how the relationship unfolded. She was brutally honest and revealing...much to my discomfort. But I appreciate how transparent she is. I don't expect anyone here to understand why I want to try and and reconcile. And honestly I don't care. The person that I knew before she checked out (compared to the ghost of a person that's been present for the last 3 years) is clearly back in every way. Yes, I have a crapload of doubt and suspicion. And I made that abundantly clear to her. Every action and response is being placed under the highest scrutiny. Compared to how she was just a week ago...she's been nearly unashamedly open. It's clear that she'd rather not disclose information, but she does so because she understands it's what I need.
> 
> And the effort it takes to forgive and try and move forward is superhuman. Any emotion that I feel, I immediately tell her and try to process. Same with her.
> 
> Everybody here can eat a bag of d***s for all I care. No, we haven't simply reverted back to a happy normal life. We're both extremely nervous. Like at an moment this whole thing can come crashing down. We're trying to invest and fully respect the process of rebuilding. "No shortcuts" she said. At this point, only time will tell.


That's a good start. If she is showing remorse and being truthful, you have a shot at fixing this. As you said, it does come down to trust right now. That will be the hard part. Well, that and the mind movies. But, it does sound like your marriage hasn't been good for the last few years, so perhaps that part won't be as bad. 

Not sure if that last part about "eating a bag of ****s" was pointed at me, but if you read any of my posts, I generally am pro-R if the WS is remorseful and puts in the necessary effort. I do wish you luck. Just be wary of false R or other indescretions down the line. Perhaps you can even build a better marriage now? 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


----------



## squid1035

TX-SC said:


> Not sure if that last part about "eating a bag of ****s" was pointed at me, but if you read any of my posts, I generally am pro-R if the WS is remorseful and puts in the necessary effort. I do wish you luck. Just be wary of false R or other indescretions down the line. Perhaps you can even build a better marriage now?
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


Not pointed at you at all. You've been one of very few commenters that seem to believe that R is possible. It's very difficult. And I express that to her and she tries to accommodate me in any away that she can. She understands that the burden of rebuilding trust lies solely on her. And she's making all the effort to meet those expectations.

That's got to mean something.


----------



## GusPolinski

Your unsubstantiated aggression toward _everyone here_ that pressed you to push, Push, PUSH through the obvious lies (to say nothing of the very real prospect of perpetual limbo) aside, I wish you luck.

Still, I doubt you'll succeed in your endeavor to reconcile, and you certainly won't if you allow yourself to continue as the doormat that you've been for the past three years.

Either way, keep those floor mats and seat covers at the ready.


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> Not pointed at you at all. You've been one of very few commenters that seem to believe that R is possible. It's very difficult. And I express that to her and she tries to accommodate me in any away that she can. She understands that the burden of rebuilding trust lies solely on her. And she's making all the effort to meet those expectations.
> 
> *That's got to mean something.*


Unless she's confessed to cheating for the past three years, not really.

Also, when's the last time the two of you had sex? (Together, I mean.)

You're not going to be able to reconcile w/o it.


----------



## JohnA

I have not read your previous threads which I will do so shortly. My intial impression is in many ways your WW recent actions seem coached or you have been so mired in trying to save the marriage you might not fully understand the terms. So, for example what is a timeline to you? 

Now being coached may indicate continuing deception or she took the advise I give WS when discussing weither they should confess. I tell them to prepare for what is to come. They need to Understand how TT is at this is point more destructive then the adultery. Know what triggers are, understand they are for life for the BS. That the BS may trigger over something completely unrelated to the subject at hand. Begin developing coping strategies, that the response get over it, it happened years ago is exactly the wrong thing to say. Accept they have re-written much of the marriage and blame shifted and gaslighted. Work with a therapist to deconstruct the myth they created. These actions have caused grave harm to not only the BS but chldren and friends. Seek ways to heal them. I only post this on Way Wards threads I get a clear sense of remorse. 

Which brings up the question of regret vs remorse. Remorse starts with empathy and grows from that point. 

Finally from a christian point of view the effort to help others seek forgiveness is very strong. But first comes revelation, repentance, redemption then forgiveness. There is one aspect missing, healing the victim. The victim is told to just let it go, not to think about it to forgive and forget. This attitude allows behavior that should have stopped decades ago to continue, creating victim after victim. Look at how the Cathoic Church sheitered priest that should have been sent to monasteries or deflocked. They got so caught up in saving the sinner and saving face some priests victimized hundreds of victims. I see much of the judicial system doing the same in the secular world too. 

So I would tread lightly with your IC. The victim must be healed first. Marriage is not a suicide pact or a call for martyrdom. I will post more after reading your other threads.


----------



## Marc878

squid1035 said:


> She's seemed very remorseful. She was reluctant to give details but after fully explaining why I felt I needed to know, she gave a completely detailed timeline as to how the relationship unfolded. She was brutally honest and revealing...much to my discomfort. But I appreciate how transparent she is. I don't expect anyone here to understand why I want to try and and reconcile. And honestly I don't care. The person that I knew before she checked out (compared to the ghost of a person that's been present for the last 3 years) is clearly back in every way. Yes, I have a crapload of doubt and suspicion. And I made that abundantly clear to her. Every action and response is being placed under the highest scrutiny. Compared to how she was just a week ago...she's been nearly unashamedly open. It's clear that she'd rather not disclose information, but she does so because she understands it's what I need.
> 
> And the effort it takes to forgive and try and move forward is superhuman. Any emotion that I feel, I immediately tell her and try to process. Same with her.
> 
> Everybody here can eat a bag of d***s for all I care. No, we haven't simply reverted back to a happy normal life. We're both extremely nervous. Like at an moment this whole thing can come crashing down. We're trying to invest and fully respect the process of rebuilding. "No shortcuts" she said. At this point, only time will tell.


Typical betrayed behavior. Mad at the world for any speculation that what you're seeing is regret of losing her meal ticket instead of remourse for what she's done. 

Seen this many times but I hope it works out for you.


----------



## JohnA

You might want to read river rats threads http://talkaboutmarriage.com/search.php?searchid=70247514. He has several read them in order. Along the way he had planned on suicide on several occasions. Your postings have some echoes in tone with his. Towards the end he discovered the adultery and never said anying leading to BC (Betrayed child issues).


----------



## manfromlamancha

So as per my last post, what were the details she provided ? How long ? How many times ? Where and when ? Did she do anything with him that she hasn't with you ? Protection worn ? In your house ever ? etc etc


----------



## manwithnoname

manfromlamancha said:


> So as per my last post, what were the details she provided ? How long ? How many times ? Where and when ? Did she do anything with him that she hasn't with you ? Protection worn ? In your house ever ? etc etc



These are good questions, but likely won't get asked because he's too busy rug sweeping. 

Where would one find a bag of ****s? Grocery store? Health food store? Specialty shop? Farmer's market?


----------



## lovelygirl

GuyInColorado said:


> You call this a marriage? Seriously? She checked out a long time ago. Go find your man card. No sex in years? What's wrong with you? Do you not have any self confidence? Go find a woman that wants your d!ck every night. They are out there. You aren't getting any younger. Don't wait 7 years until the youngest turns 18. That's what she's doing, I guarantee it.
> 
> You need to be mad. Not just about the EA, but the fact that you let your POS wife walk over you. You are a doormat. You are a poor role model for your kids to show them what a successful and healthy relationship is. They are thinking your relationship is normal and will have an everlasting negative affect on them.
> 
> Please wake up. Let your sham of a marriage go. Sorry for being so blunt. But you are in serious denial or think you'll never find another woman again. Go find a new therapist, preferably a man. I'm curious.. are you seeing a Christian therapist that is anti-divorce?


I wish I could like this post 100 times! 

OP, you've done more efforts than her to try R in this marriage, instead she should've done the biggest amount of effort. 
As a woman, personally, I wouldn't have any respect left for my BH if he let me get away with little effort (supposing I was the cheater). I would think that no matter what I did, he'd still forgive me thus I'd keep on doing what I wanted to do until realizing I had no other choice. 

The woman's mind wants to think that her H is strong and has personality. I can't be sexually attracted to a man who hasn't got a certain attitude to make me look up to him. 

She found in OM what she didn't find in you. Probably you lost your self along the way in marriage or you never had it in the first place. It can't be described in words, but from your posts it screams you were desperate for R even at the cost of looking like a doormat in your woman's eyes. 

I hope this works out for you, but as a woman myself, (without justifying her) I can see why your wife kept on being emotionally/physically detached from you.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

squid1035 said:


> Everybody here can eat a bag of d***s for all I care.


"Everybody here " is not who you should be worried about "eating a bag of ****s". Comments like that turn the advice spigot right off. Not like it sounds like you'd listen to any of it anyway. Good luck and hope it all works out for you.


----------



## sokillme

squid1035 said:


> She's seemed very remorseful. She was reluctant to give details but after fully explaining why I felt I needed to know, she gave a completely detailed timeline as to how the relationship unfolded. She was brutally honest and revealing...much to my discomfort. But I appreciate how transparent she is. I don't expect anyone here to understand why I want to try and and reconcile. And honestly I don't care. The person that I knew before she checked out (compared to the ghost of a person that's been present for the last 3 years) is clearly back in every way. Yes, I have a crapload of doubt and suspicion. And I made that abundantly clear to her. Every action and response is being placed under the highest scrutiny. Compared to how she was just a week ago...she's been nearly unashamedly open. It's clear that she'd rather not disclose information, but she does so because she understands it's what I need.
> 
> And the effort it takes to forgive and try and move forward is superhuman. Any emotion that I feel, I immediately tell her and try to process. Same with her.
> 
> Everybody here can eat a bag of d***s for all I care. No, we haven't simply reverted back to a happy normal life. We're both extremely nervous. Like at an moment this whole thing can come crashing down. We're trying to invest and fully respect the process of rebuilding. "No shortcuts" she said. At this point, only time will tell.


Really doesn't take much for you does it. Then again you did live in a broken marriage for 3 years. If this is the life you want go for it. She will probably do it to you again. 

Get back to us when your emotions catch up to reality.

It's interesting though that when you tell her you are ready to D, she decided to want to rekindle the relationship, oh and her boytoy is leaving. But you know that right?

OF COURSE SHE IS OPEN. Your all she has left.


----------



## Malaise

manwithnoname said:


> These are good questions, but likely won't get asked because he's too busy rug sweeping.
> 
> Where would one find a bag of ****s? Grocery store? Health food store? Specialty shop? Farmer's market?


Costco has them in bulk.


----------



## Tron

WOW!

She's an impressive manipulator. 3 years spreading her legs for other men...homeless men at that. All while she wipes her feet on you and you support the family and her new 'lifestyle'. 

And when the latest ********* drives off, she cries a little, talks a little, holds your hand and offers to reconcile with you... 

And you immediately jump on it. 

What exactly have you learned on TAM for the last 3 years that would lead you to believe that that is a good idea? 

Find your anger Squid. She has treated you atrociously.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Tron said:


> WOW!
> 
> She's an impressive manipulator. 3 years spreading her legs for other men...homeless men at that. All while she wipes her feet on you and you support the family and her new 'lifestyle'.
> 
> And when the latest ********* drives off, she cries a little, talks a little, holds your hand and offers to reconcile with you...
> 
> And you immediately jump on it.
> 
> What exactly have you learned on TAM for the last 3 years that would lead you to believe that that is a good idea?
> 
> Find your anger Squid. She has treated you atrociously.


He found his anger . He just misdirected it.


----------



## ABHale

Wow you go from ready for the marriage to be over. Then you find out she has FB's now you want to R. 

The only reason you know is because the OM is leaving. Why hide it anymore. 

Wish you the best OP but I really can't understand your thoughts right now.


----------



## Lostinthought61

to be fair, Squid is going through his own fog right now, a euphoria of such, he feels like the OM is out of the picture and she said no to the other man the other night caught on the VAR so now he feels like he won in a way (the last man standing so to speak), for now....and that will carry him, sure right now there is little trust left with his wife, but she will turn on the charm, and make him feel secure over time, remind him how important he is in her life, basically half lies and fake it till you believe it approach because she got caught, and she will take her punishment of sorts and he will eventually rug sweep this on his own, no exposer, because he will think he is in control...until one day when something seems out of sorts again and starts to worry, concern or otherwise....than he might be back or not.... Or maybe she will fall back in love with him, and see him as someone who stood by her when she fell, that she will be become a better person for it, it has happen on here as well...who knows.... regardless, for now he is trying to hold on to what ever reality he can piece together maybe for the sake of the children, maybe because their is still love there, maybe because he does not have enough self worth to move on or maybe for some other reason, in the end it really is not our place to judge. Let's face guys, we are not living his life he is....he is not the first nor the last on here to do the same, it takes a degree testicular fortitude to disrupt your life completely with no guarantees.....the rest of them, they live knowing, and eventually there is a sense of peace, granted it's never the same, but perhaps the alternative might have been to great (mentally, physically or economically), and sometimes what emerges out this carnage is something even better.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist

Hope is not misplaced while there is still breath in our bodies... what more can she surprise you with? You know the pain that has come from it and you know the pain you can withstand... this is your "eyes wide-open" moment my friend.

You can say "I was betrayed and I am angry", and you have every right... but it doesn't take a "man-card" any more than it takes a "woman-card" to pull yourselves out from where you are... it takes a "self-respect card" and if used, would be best used by both of you.

She lost it for herself when she chose such poor actions... did she lose faith in you? Perhaps... but she lost greater faith in herself and in a level of codependence you tried to right it while she was lost... a blind leading the blind path for those of us who take it.

It didn't work out well...no more surprises there.

What lessons were learned?

What is right or wrong for you is your path to walk... many trigger here at times, myself included, and it is hard to watch another make our mistakes and we are so sure that you are walking our path from the past yet we don't remember every rock we stubbed our toe on, every bush we were scratched from, every stream our shoes got soaked crossing... we just remember we were hurt from it's journey and issue general warnings not knowing exactly where you are on your journey, but even "exact" may be a best guess for yourself as we all walk a different trail on a different map even though the rocks, brush, and streams look kind of the same.

At some stage we all have shame in our past... now it the time to play that self-respect card with forgiveness, and boundaries.

You know what you will accept and what you will not.

Set those boundaries in place, question each with "does this build my self-respect or tear it down"? Set that self-worth up front because you are worthy of a true and committed partner from this day forth, and show her that before you can love her fully, you need to love yourself.

Then... simply... do.

However you both fell... time to work together with respect being the compass on your path.

If you find yourself alone, walk with confidence knowing you did your best... not all follow the right fork on the trail.

I wish you well... peace be with you on your journey.


----------



## squid1035

Thank you all. Sorry for my spite.


----------



## Chaparral

So how are things going?


----------



## squid1035

Whelp,

I'm a couple days short of a month out from d-day. Mind's a mess.

WW has been saying all of the right things. Doing all of the right things. For the first week or so after her turnaround she kept alluding to previous faults in the M. I told her about blameshifting. She oddly hasn't brought anything up since. I've finally come to realize how she manipulates. I called her on that too. I know everybody here warned me. Sorry for not heeding.

I'm still a mess emotionally and am not ready to make big decisions yet. I am trying to prepare myself for D. I'm allowing my WW a little latitude and insist that she get some IC. She hasn't gotten there yet but says that she will. She tried to explain what was happening to her father (FOO issues there) and she described it to him as "she did something wrong" it was her fault and that "we're working it out". I told her "that's it?" And she immediately alluded to her dad the previously mentioned problems in our marriage. Blameshifting. I called her out on that too. Expressing remorse? Maybe. Showing remorse? Heck no.

Putting her stuff in trashbags and changing the locks is something I cannot do to the mother of my children. She simply has no resources to make it alone just yet. All of her family is abroad and she doesn't have much of a close network of friends to rely on. Her current monthly income would barely cover our groceries.

Yes, she's treated me horribly and eviscerated my soul. I have to allow her to at least get to where she could feasibly pay for her own apartment then I could help out with the rest. Call me weak but I'm just not that cold-hearted.

I'm trying to find a way I can reach her father and give him the heavy details as to why we are in such a precarious state. I believe he and her family have the right to know. I made a promise to him long ago that I would love and protect his daughter. I'm not looking to shame her, but she needs to own up to her sh**. 

I am harboring no more hope for her, at this moment. I can see that she is a broken person. How someone I once regarded as so principled could betray her core values like that is still bewildering. 

A couple weeks ago she was telling me "we owe it to ourselves and our families to give it one last try". I don't think she has the heart for that. And I certainly don't have the stomach for it.

Peace


----------



## mickybill

squid1035 said:


> Putting her stuff in trashbags and changing the locks is something I cannot do to the mother of my children. She simply has no resources to make it alone just yet. All of her family is abroad and she doesn't have much of a close network of friends to rely on. Her current monthly income would barely cover our groceries.
> 
> Yes, she's treated me horribly and eviscerated my soul. I have to allow her to at least get to where she could feasibly pay for her own apartment then I could help out with the rest. Call me weak but I'm just not that cold-hearted.
> 
> I'm trying to find a way I can reach her father and give him the heavy details as to why we are in such a precarious state. I believe he and her family have the right to know. I made a promise to him long ago that I would love and protect his daughter. I'm not looking to shame her, but she needs to own up to her sh**.
> 
> I am harboring no more hope for her, at this moment. I can see that she is a broken person. How someone I once regarded as so principled could betray her core values like that is still bewildering.
> 
> A couple weeks ago she was telling me "we owe it to ourselves and our families to give it one last try". I don't think she has the heart for that. And I certainly don't have the stomach for it.
> 
> Peace


"One last try" That about sums it up. Not a good chance of success.

Seems like you both are going thru the motions because you "should" not because you think it'll work or you love eachother. Might be better for a divorce and you pay support for a limited time and let her father or family pay the rest or take her back home until she can be on her own again.

It's good that you posted again and that you are giving yourself some time.
What you wrote ^ is brutally honest and indicates that you are ready to D and move on without her as you wife.
By staying together because she has no money friends or options is a recipe for disaster, you become her guardian not her husband. 
It could take years for her become financially stable, and with you bailing her out it may never happen and you are left in limbo. 

Good luck.


----------



## TDSC60

Well at least now you know why she is considering R. She finally realized that she pushed you too far and you were ready to walk away and she cannot afford that with her lover taking his van and driving away.


----------



## squid1035

Micky and TDS,

Yup and yup. A gross sh*t show.


----------



## Lostinthought61

the problem is that she feels remorse for getting caught and finding herself in a situation that has left her vulnerable both financially and be humiliated for her actions in the eyes of those that matter...her father and perhaps her children....when she says she "owes it to ourselves and family we give one last try" what she really means is herself and the kids....if she can do the least amount of work to get that done so she can move on with this ordeal she will...which is why she is trying to blame shift...so good for you Squid for picking up on that. I'll be honest i am not trilled with "supposedly stepping up"...it sounds false or half ass approach. 

She is not feeling the pain yet, how old are the kids ? have you told them?


----------



## squid1035

Lostinthought61 said:


> She is not feeling the pain yet, how old are the kids ? have you told them?



I have not told them. I know the older ones know something is up and I have been pondering what to tell them. It's kind of an important Spring around here as our oldest one is about to go off to college. I'd hate to have her leave amidst such chaos without an understanding of what's happening.


----------



## Hope1964

squid1035 said:


> I have not told them. I know the older ones know something is up and I have been pondering what to tell them. It's kind of an important Spring around here as our oldest one is about to go off to college. I'd hate to have her leave amidst such chaos without an understanding of what's happening.


When I kicked my cheater husband out I made HIM tell the kids what was going on and answer their questions.

She needs to feel some of the PAIN here. She ISN'T right now. MAKE her.


----------



## squid1035

Hope1964 said:


> When I kicked my cheater husband out I made HIM tell the kids what was going on and answer their questions.
> 
> She needs to feel some of the PAIN here. She ISN'T right now. MAKE her.


I love that. I know she wouldn't do it. Not yet. I will mention it to her though. If not her, I would have that talk with them.

I have a letter locked and loaded ready to send to her father.

I'm thinking exposure is the only way to apply pressure. Either way this goes, she has to feel the pain she inflicted.


----------



## farsidejunky

Exposure either kills the affair or drives them to the AP.

Either way, it has a tendency to clear the clutter and eliminate the time spent in limbo.

If you are going to insist that she disclose to the kids, also insist you be there when she does. This will eliminate and talk of "We are having problems" minimizing that happens sometimes. I think this is especially pertinent given her actions and words as of late, because they don't sound like someone who wants to be with you because of you, but rather one who stands to lose face and lifestyle, as others have alluded to.

If she won't do it, then that tells you she is still thinking of herself.


----------



## squid1035

farsidejunky said:


> Exposure either kills the affair or drives them to the AP.
> 
> Either way, it has a tendency to clear the clutter and eliminate the time spent in limbo.
> 
> If you are going to insist that she disclose to the kids, also insist you be there when she does. This will eliminate and talk of "We are having problems" minimizing that happens sometimes. I think this is especially pertinent given her actions and words as of late, because they don't sound like someone who wants to be with you because of you, but rather one who stands to lose face and lifestyle, as others have alluded to.
> 
> If she won't do it, then that tells you she is still thinking of herself.


I've been insisting since d-day that she should just go with the AP. She insists "that was never the plan" and that "they just weren't meant to be". Oh, really? Never the plan? You had a plan? Did that plan involve destroying the family you love and value? I told her that almost verbatim recently. She said just wasn't thinking.

You know what else she said? She said when they were together all she was thinking that wished I could too feel such happiness. Well, LA-DI-FRICKIN'-DA!!! Isn't that poetic!!

At this point they can have each other for all I care.

This situation is so terrible. I pray that the pain our kids feel is as minimal as possible.

Barf.


----------



## eric1

You need to just pull the bandaid. I wish that there was a way to sugarcoat it.

And stop white knighting her about making it on her own. She has consequences to her actions and this is one of them. She was "indescribably happy" with her boyfriend, her income did not come into play. She very acutely made that decision. You trying to "save" her is just another way that the codependency demon tries to keep you in tow. To be frank, in most countries there are vibrant legal systems which are designed to make sure that she is not left out literally with nothing.

....and hey, I mean if you really want to you could slip her a few bucks. But you need to pull that bandaid. First things first man, you just have to finally get it over with.


----------



## farsidejunky

@Affaircare often says that all choices in life have a benefit and a consequence. Allowing someone to feel said consequences is the only way they will learn as clearly the warning messages of "infidelity harms marriage" beforehand did not have any impact.


----------



## GusPolinski

@squid1035, has she owned up to any previous affairs?

Have you asked her?

If so, what was her reaction?


----------



## Nucking Futs

squid1035 said:


> I've been insisting since d-day that she should just go with the AP. She insists "that was never the plan" and that "they just weren't meant to be". Oh, really? Never the plan? You had a plan? Did that plan involve destroying the family you love and value? I told her that almost verbatim recently. She said just wasn't thinking.
> 
> You know what else she said? *She said when they were together all she was thinking that wished I could too feel such happiness. * Well, LA-DI-FRICKIN'-DA!!! Isn't that poetic!!
> 
> At this point they can have each other for all I care.
> 
> This situation is so terrible. I pray that the pain our kids feel is as minimal as possible.
> 
> Barf.


Reply: "I'm sure I will with my next wife."


----------



## Thor

There is no perfect time to tell the kids. I would avoid doing so close to when the eldest leaves for college because that will be a big added stressor. After finals at the end of this semester seems like a good time. In addition, I would have positive conversations with her about her future, your love and admiration for her, etc.


----------



## mickybill

Hope1964 said:


> When I kicked my cheater husband out I made HIM tell the kids what was going on and answer their questions.
> 
> She needs to feel some of the PAIN here. She ISN'T right now. MAKE her.


Brilliant. She burns the place down, she has to tell the kids why she did it, and take responsibility for it.


----------



## Malaise

squid1035 said:


> I've been insisting since d-day that she should just go with the AP. She insists "that was never the plan" and that "they just weren't meant to be". Oh, really? Never the plan? You had a plan? Did that plan involve destroying the family you love and value? I told her that almost verbatim recently. She said just wasn't thinking.
> 
> You know what else she said? She said when they were together all she was thinking that wished I could too feel such happiness. Well, LA-DI-FRICKIN'-DA!!! Isn't that poetic!!
> 
> At this point they can have each other for all I care.
> 
> This situation is so terrible. I pray that the pain our kids feel is as minimal as possible.
> 
> Barf.


Her plan was to have a good time while you stayed oblivious. That's all


----------



## GusPolinski

Malaise said:


> Her plan was to have a good time while you stayed oblivious. That's all


_Until_ the last kid left the house.

When that happened she'd have run off w/ whoever she happened to be banging at the time.

OP mentioned that she essentially admitted to that (w/o any mention of infidelity, of course) in one of his first posts.

Hell, that might _still_ be her plan.

@squid1035, has there been any sex yet?

If not, why not?

Have either of you attempted to initiate, even passively?


----------



## squid1035

She's been talking about sex. I told her I'm okay with waiting 90 days after she last had sex to get an std test. Blech.


----------



## Satya

squid1035 said:


> I've been insisting since d-day that she should just go with the AP. She insists "that was never the plan" and that "they just weren't meant to be". Oh, really? Never the plan? You had a plan? Did that plan involve destroying the family you love and value? I told her that almost verbatim recently. She said just wasn't thinking.
> 
> You know what else she said? She said when they were together all she was thinking that wished I could too feel such happiness. Well, LA-DI-FRICKIN'-DA!!! Isn't that poetic!!
> 
> At this point they can have each other for all I care.
> 
> This situation is so terrible. I pray that the pain our kids feel is as minimal as possible.
> 
> Barf.


Cheaterspeak. She's fluent.


----------



## Malaise

squid1035 said:


> I've been insisting since d-day that she should just go with the AP. She insists "that was never the plan" and that "they just weren't meant to be". Oh, really? Never the plan? You had a plan? Did that plan involve destroying the family you love and value? I told her that almost verbatim recently. She said just wasn't thinking.
> 
> *You know what else she said? She said when they were together all she was thinking that wished I could too feel such happiness. Well, LA-DI-FRICKIN'-DA!!! Isn't that poetic!!
> 
> *At this point they can have each other for all I care.
> 
> This situation is so terrible. I pray that the pain our kids feel is as minimal as possible.
> 
> Barf.


See! She really cares!


----------



## Satya

Squid, I agree with Eric. You have got to stop this "she's helpless and defenseless" response.

Why is she helpless (financially and otherwise)? Why isn't that enough of a reason for her to do what is needed to better herself? Only she can make a decision to change, but when she knows your guilt will help to keep things the same for her, why would she even consider changing? 

Deciding in your mind what people aren't capable of learning ensures they never will learn those things. For those with no real desire to light a fire under their own arses, they need a push. 

We ALL have to learn to do difficult things under suboptimal conditions, it's part of being an adult and being human.


----------



## TaDor

> You know what else she said? She said when they were together all she was thinking that wished I could too feel such happiness. Well, LA-DI-FRICKIN'-DA!!! Isn't that poetic!!


You couldn't think about it at the time.. that is such a WTF thing to say. A good come back "So when he was pounding you anally, you thought about how you were ****ing me in the ass too and how much I would enjoy it? Gee, thanks."

Deep six her.


----------



## The Middleman

squid1035 said:


> You know what else she said? She said when they were together all she was thinking that wished I could too feel such happiness. Well, LA-DI-FRICKIN'-DA!!! Isn't that poetic!!


Why don't you meet a nice woman who is only interested in casual sex, and spend a few evenings with her. Then come home and tell your "wife" that you now understand what she means because you've experienced the "happiness", then give her all the details. I guarantee you that she won't be happy about it ... but I'm convinced you will fell better.


----------



## Lostinthought61

squid1035 said:


> You know what else she said? She said when they were together all she was thinking that wished I could too feel such happiness. Well, LA-DI-FRICKIN'-DA!!! Isn't that poetic!!
> 
> 
> Barf.


Next time you should tell her ...you know when i am with you now, and we seem to be bonding, and i look into your eyes, and i caress your face, i just want you to know "I FEEL DEAD!!!"


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> She's been talking about sex. I told her I'm okay with waiting 90 days after she last had sex to get an std test. Blech.


So would you say that you're now a bit more solidly in the "let's just keep this together until the kids are gone" camp yourself?


----------



## squid1035

GusPolinski said:


> So would you say that you're now a bit more solidly in the "let's just keep this together until the kids are gone" camp yourself?


I get what you're getting at. I don't think so. Unless she starts putting forth some serious effort like IC and truly owning her sh*t, it would just show she's biding time. And I really hate the idea of being a crutch. I've been a doormat for too long.

I mean, I love sex and all, but it still seems like a lot of effort towards something that has an expiration date.


----------



## Absurdist

It's like I told you on another board. You're dragging a dead dog on a leash through the park. End this.

It's not so much the affair but the prior three years of abuse. I've read all your prior threads. The limbo you've lived through really pisses me off. Put a stake in it and be the best Dad you can be to your kids.


----------



## Malaise

squid1035 said:


> I get what you're getting at. I don't think so. Unless she starts putting forth some serious effort like IC and truly owning her sh*t, it would just show she's biding time. And I really hate the idea of being a crutch. I've been a doormat for too long.
> 
> I mean, I love sex and all, but it still seems like a lot of effort towards something that has an expiration date.


It's already expired


----------



## Marc878

squid1035 said:


> I have not told them. I know the older ones know something is up and I have been pondering what to tell them. It's kind of an important Spring around here as our oldest one is about to go off to college. I'd hate to have her leave amidst such chaos without an understanding of what's happening.


There is always a good excuse to do nothing hoping it'll all just go away. 

Letting life take you where it will only works in the movies unless you're lucky.


----------



## squid1035

Zombie Thread!!

UPDATE:

Heading to divorce. She broke NC. Took it underground. I saw a mysterious number with hours of minutes spent talking to it from her number. She claimed she had no idea who it could be. 3 hours over 3 weeks spent talking to this person and she can't remember? Right.

Trying to navigate towards an uncontested divorce as quickly and cheaply as possible. 

Our 12 and 17 yr olds will live with me while our oldest goes off to college. Lucky for her. WW moves out.

Sorry for not heeding your advice earlier. I was in full denial. No more of that.

Peace.


----------



## farsidejunky

Sorry to hear, brother.

Has she already moved out?


----------



## ButtPunch

Man will the store take back the bag of ****s i have been munching on the last two months.

Good riddance, Squid.


----------



## squid1035

She hasn't moved out yet. She's in the process of looking. Of course she only works part-time at the moment and will likely need my help towards her living expenses. I'd love her gone ASAP just so me and the kids can begin our process. We haven't told the kids yet. We're going to in a couple weeks after school is finished. I will have a gentle talk with them about my reasons for wanting divorce (infidelity) while she will likely minimize and say it's because we couldn't work things out.

She deemed me unsuitable for reconciliation because my emotions were too "inconsistent" after her affair. I didn't handle the affair in a manner that suited her. Aww...


----------



## squid1035

Fair enough, ButtPunch


----------



## ButtPunch

You will heal from this

We all do.

Life will get better immensely once you lose the dead weight.


----------



## Steve1000

squid1035 said:


> She hasn't moved out yet. She's in the process of looking. Of course she only works part-time at the moment and will likely need my help towards her living expenses. I'd love her gone ASAP just so me and the kids can begin our process. We haven't told the kids yet. We're going to in a couple weeks after school is finished. I will have a gentle talk with them about my reasons for wanting divorce (infidelity) while she will likely minimize and say it's because we couldn't work things out.
> 
> She deemed me unsuitable for reconciliation because my emotions were too "inconsistent" after her affair. I didn't handle the affair in a manner that suited her. Aww...


I read your entire thread today and I'm happy to see that you were able to grow from a hopeless doormat to somebody with a healthy sense of self-worth. Your nightmare will soon be over.


----------



## anchorwatch

Too long in coming, Squid. She was never into really trying. She let you chase your tail for long enough. Don't let her pull at your "Nice Guy" heart strings. She made her bed, and you were never going to be in it. She gave it away to her BF, let him or whoever take care of her. Time for Squid to not have to worry about where things are going anymore. Without her, Squid has a weight lifted off his back and will do just fine. 

Does her family know about the D and why?


----------



## squid1035

I told her family and even talked to her father. They are shunning her. Her father is pleading with me to reconsider. I told him my conditions were no contact, transparency and honesty. She couldn't meet them so I chose divorce. Of course she spun it as if she was making the choice.

She's waffling now as we start the process, having 2nd thoughts. I told her this is what she chose. At best, she's feeling guilty now.


----------



## anchorwatch

Be wary, she'll try to suck you back into that one-way relationship, so she won't have to face the family embarrassment and give up without her free ride (squid).


----------



## Malaise

squid1035 said:


> I told her family and even talked to her father. They are shunning her. Her father is pleading with me to reconsider. I told him my conditions were no contact, transparency and honesty. She couldn't meet them so I chose divorce. Of course she spun it as if she was making the choice.
> 
> She's waffling now as we start the process, having 2nd thoughts. I told her this is what she chose. At best, she's feeling guilty now.


I don't think it's guilt. It's more like uncertainty for her future. Guilt would mean remorse for what she did. She's just worried where her next meal is coming from.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Good for you Squid, you gave her a second chance, when she did not even deserve it...and she failed...and yet she continues to rug sweep it. classic. tell her to get a full time job


----------



## Openminded

Life is about to get real for her and she's finding that idea scary. 

Don't be surprised if the begging and pleading begin soon with promises to do anything you want as long as you don't divorce her. She'll probably pull out all the stops. Be prepared.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Be prepared for the full on press like skimpy clothes, niceness, pressure for sex, tears and begging. Especially when the financials and leaving the kids really hit her. Get this going and stop talking to others. Get as much done before reality sets in and don't balk when she starts temporarily fixing things. You can always remarry, but you can only make divorce harder when you wait through another fake reconciliation.


----------



## farsidejunky

As @Chuck71 likes to say, be prepared for the late night knock on the door with her in a trench coat and nothing on under it.


----------



## DayOne

farsidejunky said:


> As @Chuck71 likes to say, be prepared for the late night knock on the door with her in a trench coat and nothing on under it.


Keep a can of Lysol by the door, just in case...


----------



## GusPolinski

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Be prepared for the full on press like skimpy clothes, niceness, pressure for sex, tears and begging. Especially when the financials and leaving the kids really hit her. Get this going and stop talking to others. Get as much done before reality sets in and don't balk when she starts temporarily fixing things. You can always remarry, but you can only make divorce harder when you wait through another fake reconciliation.


Yep.


----------



## mickybill

Good job Squid, she should either get a full time job, go back to the OM, or use the time off to find some other sucker OM to take her in and pay her bills.

Is original OM still in a van by the river?


----------



## squid1035

Yes, somewhere out West.


----------



## squid1035

mickybill said:


> Good job Squid, she should either get a full time job, go back to the OM, or use the time off to find some other sucker OM to take her in and pay her bills.
> 
> Is original OM still in a van by the river?


Yes, somewhere out west.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

DayOne said:


> Keep a can of Lysol by the door, just in case...


 ... and a cigarette lighter.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

squid1035 said:


> Yes, somewhere out west.


 squid,
Do you think she'll try to move out there or not enough room in the camper?
I think she's about to have her "reality check" cashed.

p.s. Glad you came back and updated us. Hang tough.


----------



## GusPolinski

mickybill said:


> Good job Squid, she should either get a full time job, go back to the OM, or use the time off to find some other sucker OM to take her in and pay her bills.
> 
> Is original OM still in a van by the river?





squid1035 said:


> Yes, somewhere out West.


You should do something to help her get on her feet.

Like maybe go ahead and spring for those seat covers/floor mats.


----------



## squid1035

I understand the desire of everybody here to roast the sh*t out of her. Hell, I'm likely to look the other way if you do. But she did play a crucial role in raising our kids to be the honor students that they all are. She's not a dead beat mom. She's made sh*tty choices as a wife, yes. But our household is held together by her hard work and love.

That's why I was in so much denial before. Couldn't believe this is the same woman I fell in love with. Still can't. Still hurts like hell. Both the betrayal and the harsh realization.

I'll check back in a few weeks as the summer goes on and bigger developments arise.


----------



## Malaise

squid1035 said:


> I understand the desire of everybody here to roast the sh*t out of her. Hell, I'm likely to look the other way if you do. But she did play a crucial role in raising our kids to be the honor students that they all are. She's not a dead beat mom. She's made sh*tty choices as a wife, yes. But our household is held together by her hard work and love.
> 
> That's why I was in so much denial before. Couldn't believe this is the same woman I fell in love with. Still can't. Still hurts like hell. Both the betrayal and the harsh realization.
> 
> I'll check back in a few weeks as the summer goes on and bigger developments arise.


With all of those accolades from you notwithstanding, did she ever say why she made those crappy choices?

Was she just tired of being the dutiful wife and mother ?


----------



## Satya

squid1035 said:


> I told her family and even talked to her father. They are shunning her. Her father is pleading with me to reconsider. I told him my conditions were no contact, transparency and honesty. She couldn't meet them so I chose divorce. Of course she spun it as if she was making the choice.
> 
> She's waffling now as we start the process, having 2nd thoughts. I told her this is what she chose. At best, she's feeling guilty now.


It doesn't matter if she has second thoughts. 

You know what you're going to do.


----------



## squid1035

Malaise said:


> With all of those accolades from you notwithstanding, did she ever say why she made those crappy choices?
> 
> Was she just tired of being the dutiful wife and mother ?


Nothing justifiable. She felt lonely, he reminder her of me when we first fell in love, they could talk about anything. She felt she married too young, then in her soul searching phase. Lack of identity other than wife and mother. Mid-life crisis gone amok.


----------



## Malaise

squid1035 said:


> Nothing justifiable. She felt lonely, he reminder her of me when we first fell in love, they could talk about anything. She felt she married too young, then in her soul searching phase. Lack of identity other than wife and mother. Mid-life crisis gone amok.


The banality of cheater excuses.


----------



## OnTheRocks

squid1035 said:


> Nothing justifiable. She felt lonely, he reminder her of me when we first fell in love, they could talk about anything. She felt she married too young, then in her soul searching phase. Lack of identity other than wife and mother. Mid-life crisis gone amok.


Textbook, every step of the way.


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> Nothing justifiable. She felt lonely, he reminder her of me when we first fell in love, they could talk about anything. She felt she married too young, then in her soul searching phase. Lack of identity other than wife and mother. Mid-life crisis gone amok.


So, basically, the usual bull****.


----------



## Chuck71

Yo Squid... how's you doin?


----------



## squid1035

Zombie Thread!!

Separation just started. She has that place until mid-September. After that, it's her job to find a place to stay. Meantime, the divorce process will be fast-tracked and filing can't come soon enough. Uncontested divorce. I have primary custody. Kids will remain in the marital house with me and she will have them every other weekend. 

I need this circus to be over.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Zombie Thread!!
> 
> Separation just started. She has that place until mid-September. After that, it's her job to find a place to stay. Meantime, the divorce process will be fast-tracked and filing can't come soon enough. Uncontested divorce. I have primary custody. Kids will remain in the marital house with me and she will have them every other weekend.
> 
> I need this circus to be over.


You also post at SI right?


----------



## squid1035

Truthseeker1 said:


> You also post at SI right?


Ya.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Ya.


She is that wonderful piece of work who offered you the "privilege" of a celibate marriage correct? Meaning she would screw her AP while living with her family. Is she even sane?


----------



## anchorwatch

squid1035 said:


> I need this circus to be over.


It will be over soon, @squid1035. 

Just don't detour. Stay on course and you'll soon be rid of that burden on your shoulders. 

Best


----------



## squid1035

Truthseeker1 said:


> She is that wonderful piece of work who offered you the "privilege" of a celibate marriage correct? Meaning she would screw her AP while living with her family. Is she even sane?


Well, to be fair, I don't think she's still screwing her AP. But I'm almost 100% they're still in contact. So EA for sure. Which is still a sh*t sandwich. The cray-cray is strong with this one.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Change the locks on the house. ASAP.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Well, to be fair, I don't think she's still screwing her AP. But I'm almost 100% they're still in contact. So EA for sure. Which is still a sh*t sandwich. The cray-cray is strong with this one.


She wants to move back into the house until she gets back on her feet. You are right she is a nut case.

Not to be difficult but how do you know she is not screwing her AP? If they are talking there is a good chance they are still screwing. She is a proven liar and cheater - so anything is possible. Just watch your back man.


----------



## squid1035

Truthseeker1 said:


> Change the locks on the house. ASAP.


Oh, yes.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Oh, yes.


 I think you will be well served by the advice you get from others here at TAM. Glad to see you are not a doormat there is too much of that going around lately as I'm sure you have seen and read quite often.


----------



## squid1035

Truthseeker1 said:


> Glad to see you are not a doormat


Yeah, but it freakin' took my long enough!


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Yeah, but it freakin' took my long enough!


The important thing is you are NOW being proactive. There are certain threads at SI that I avoid because they are nauseating to me because the WS is an ego kibble addict or the BS is passive - the important thing is you are on the right path to resolve this.


----------



## squid1035

You're right. I can't prove that they're not screwing. But as far as I know the OM has moved out West back in April. Social media confirms that thus far. She told me he told her he'd wait for her and once she's fixed herself she should go find him. Ah, unicorn-land must be grand! She has no plans to leave our area at least until our youngest has left the nest.

As for those nauseating threads on SI, I hear you. I think my WS is an ego kibble addict. I was once passive. Hell, being proactive is a deliberate, exhausting exercise for me right now. But I'm on my way. One step at a time.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> You're right. I can't prove that they're not screwing. But as far as I know the OM has moved out West back in April. Social media confirms that thus far. She told me he told her he'd wait for her and once she's fixed herself she should go find him. Ah, unicorn-land must be grand! She has no plans to leave our area at least until our youngest has left the nest.
> 
> As for those nauseating threads on SI, I hear you. I think my WS is an ego kibble addict. I was once passive. Hell, being proactive is a deliberate, exhausting exercise for me right now. But I'm on my way. One step at a time.


The OM is a real POS to break up a family and yes it is a land of rainbows and unicorns. He'd wait for her? This isnt a move its real life with real lives at stake. 

Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. I'd encourage you to utilize TAM more often. Lots of great folks here IMHO.


----------



## squid1035

Truthseeker1,

When I left here, I simply couldn't handle the tough love. In retrospect, I really needed it. But at that time I was too emotionally strung out to handle it. I still value this place. I'm now in a mental place where I can handle the tough advice because now I'm prepared to make those choices, kind of. 

On SI, I take what I can use and discard the rest. And there's plenty of "the rest". That said, I treat the Just Found Out forum like a triage unit, and offer first aid advice whenever I can give it. Infidelity is hell. Trauma, for sure. 

I'm not taking sides or playing favorites. Everybody could use a second set of eyes to help them navigate their way through hell.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Truthseeker1,
> 
> When I left here, I simply couldn't handle the tough love. In retrospect, I really needed it. But at that time I was too emotionally strung out to handle it. I still value this place. I'm now in a mental place where I can handle the tough advice because now I'm prepared to make those choices, kind of.
> 
> On SI, I take what I can use and discard the rest. And there's plenty of "the rest". That said, I treat the Just Found Out forum like a triage unit, and offer first aid advice whenever I can give it. Infidelity is hell. Trauma, for sure.
> 
> I'm not taking sides or playing favorites. Everybody could use a second set of eyes to help them navigate their way through hell.


So long as you are on the path to TRUE healing and happiness I say keep moving in that direction. What I don't want to see for you is some kind of convincing yourself to accept less than you deserve. I see too much of that and I think you know what I mean.One more thing the folks at TAM may use a lot of 2 x 4s but they are frequently 100% correct. 

I do wish you good luck and happiness my friend.


----------



## TAMAT

Squid,

You wrote, *I can't prove that they're not screwing. But as far as I know the OM has moved out West back in April*

I think once the affair is known the affair sex often dies, without the added excitement of secrecy and the thrill of getting away with a crime, the wife has to stop and see who the OM actually is, and by extension what the OM helped turn her into. 

Here's something you can print out for your WW to help her feel better. It came from another website and I didn't write it.

*My perspective is from that of the OW who became the new wife. I hope this helps someone.

You will get to be responsible for destroying the life of another woman. You will get to be responsible for destroying the lives of all children involved. No, children are not resilient. They are sponges and take in everything around them whether they are capable of processing it or not. And when they are not able to process their world being shattered and all the conflicting messages about right and wrong, you will get to deal with all their issues and mistakes and anger as they grow up. You will have to know all the while that whatever is happening is a direct result of your selfishness. If the child fails at school, can’t control their anger, becomes promiscuous, falls into addictions, can’t maintain good relationships of their own you get to know in the back of your mind and deep in your soul that you are responsible for what molded that child. Whether you admit it or not, you WILL know. You will not be able to fix this; it will not work out, smooth over, or ever be okay. Even if you look like the Cleavers on the surface it is under there bubbling and will come out. Don’t think you are special and you will escape this result.

Maybe right now you are in a place where you are in deep denial about the children and you don’t give a crap about the BW. Let me appeal to your sense of selfishness then and tell you what you personally are going to suffer in the years to come…

You are marrying a cheater. Someone who didn’t like what they had at home so they went looking for something better. Or maybe you offered him something better? It doesn’t really matter who started it, who lied more, it doesn’t even really matter if you were tricked into a relationship not knowing he was married at first. Your consequences will be the same. You now have a spouse who gave up one family and chose you and yours. Feels great right? Think again. How long do you think it will take before you stop feeling like a prize?

The minute things go wrong, and face it, in all marriages there are these times, he is going to be looking at you and wondering if you were worth it. And you will feel it. Even if he doesn’t say it right out. He is going to realize that this marriage requires just as much work as the old one did and you are not nearly as perfect in real life as he thought you were and he is going to be angry for what he has sacrificed for you. Now you get to be insecure and feel like you are always fighting to be worth it to him.

You are going to be labeled as the [censored] for the entire rest of your life. No matter what changes or personal revelations you come to, you will be the [censored] that wrecked a home and stole a husband. There will be innumerable family conflicts over this. You are likely to have his kids hating your guts forever. This means that every holiday, school concert, soccer game, big family event like graduations and weddings, and grandkids (yes, it will last that far and long) will be sources of conflict instead of happy times.

You will probably not be invited to a lot of things that your spouse should be attending with his children. You may show up anyway, asserting your position as the new wife. But it will be a conflict. You spouse will have to over and over choose between you and his original family. He is going to resent you for this. You are going to get so tired of constantly being the center of conflict and so tired of all the hate directed at you and no one is going to sympathize with you. When you do impose yourself where the BW and her children and extended family and friends are you will feel the scarlet letter that you wear burning in your chest no matter how high you try to hold your head. I promise you, you will. You and your stolen spouse will fight over this more than you can imagine in the years to come.

And guess what?! When he starts to pull away from you and works late more, or isn’t insatiable in bed with you anymore, or cuts his hair a new way you are going to be terrified. You are going to be terrified because you know exactly what he might be doing next. You are going to be suspicious probably before he actually even does anything because you already know he is untrustworthy.

Chances are he is going to cheat again too. Except this time on you. Now, you get to feel the pain of being a BW doubled by the pain of realizing exactly what you did to someone else. The guilt and shame on top of your already devastating pain from being cheated on will be unbearable. Now listen to this closely NO ONE IS GOING TO CARE!! You are going to hear and know that you should have known better and have the old adages about cheaters thrown in your face over and over. You will not be able to come somewhere like these boards for support because they are going to crucify you! You will be all alone with your pain and your heartache with no one to blame but yourself.

Do not think you are special. DO NOT THINK IT WON’THAPPEN TO YOU!!!!!!!!!! The stats are overwhelmingly high. No one gets married thinking that their spouse will cheat. No one. I promise you are not different or better somehow.

Occasionally an affair partner will grow a conscience and want to be a good person and here is what happens…

Now, let’s say that you make changes in your heart and your life. Let say you find God or in whatever way it comes to you, you realize that you have done something horrendous. Okay, now you actually do care about those kids and that BW. Well too bad. You can’t fix it. Yes, God will forgive you if you repent. Not many others will. And you will have one heck of a time trying to forgive yourself. You will feel sick and ashamed all the time. You will cry many bitter tears.

You will not be able to look at your spouse and feel the same way you once did. All of your memories of when you first met, your first kiss, the early days of your relationship will be tainted. All of those memories that are supposed to be sweet will be sour. You will not be able to enjoy them because you know that whole time it was wrong, wrong, wrong! What are you left with? Not much.

You are going to try to offer apologies, you are going to try to figure out what you can possibly do to make amends and there are going to be no easy answers. You will be told by many that you can’t repent and stay married. You will be told by just as many that if God has forgiven you that another divorce would be just another sin. You will make yourself crazy over this because you want to do the right thing for once in your life and you have put yourself in a situation where it is impossible to know what that it.

Also, if you are one of the few who have this attack of conscience at some point down the road, you are still going to be dealing with all the same stuff above that the unremorseful affair partner is dealing with except it’s probably going to hurt you even more because you now genuinely care. Too bad no one will think you are sincere or trust your words. Why should they, remember what you did?? Of course you do, now go cry some more as if it will help.

There are no time machines people!! You are making a mess bigger than you can ever clean up!!

There is really a lot more I could say about how this is going to play out but this is already getting very long.

Like I said, this is from my perspective but just change the pronouns and it is the same for anyone entering into an adulterous relationship. Man or woman, whether you are the WW, WH, AP, it’s going to end in ruin.

You have been warned.

And if anyone out there is currently involved in waywardness and wants to ask me something, fire away! I will answer any and everything asked if it will get you to stop what you are doing and reconcile your family before it is too late.

Unfortunately if you are already married to your AP don’t bother asking me. I can’t help you because I cannot help myself. I live in the ruins of my own creation. You like me should have seen the light sooner. Sorry.

To the BS out there who may read this, I can only hope that knowing that your spouse is not going to be happy and their AP is not going to be happy helps you feel a little bit vindicated. I promise you that even if they look like the picture of happiness on the outside they are not. They have a cancer eating their souls. You can have a better life. They won’t.

NewCreation2011*


----------



## Hope1964

That's crappy that it took that long to get her gone.

You ARE prepared for her to come crawling back, right?? As in, the aforementioned can of lysol by the door?

What are you doing for YOU right now?


----------



## squid1035

TAMAT,

I've been taking my WW through scenarios very similar to the one you posted. Especially pointing out how her AP knew damn well she was married with kids. Yet he still pursued her. He tested her boundaries. She would resist. He would test again. She would relent. Thus the boundaries kept moving, getting weaker. You can see the disgust and self-loathing shade her face as she realizes these things. 

But the denial is strong in her. He's really just a nice guy! Fantasy land is so bright and shiny! I don't want to leave!

Never mind the effects this will have on the innocent children. I think she still compartmentalizes her affair from her family. Like the 2 could never feel the effects of the other. These are the lies she tells herself. And, deep down, I know she sees this. Or at least she's slowly coming to realize it. But she's too cowardly to confront it. So she blameshifts and deflects and minimizes and gaslights....just like the rest of them.

I told her recently that I can't get past seeing her as only a label now - "Lying Wayward Spouse". It's a terrible mindf**k. Her behavior and lies were identical to all the others that I've read about. Like they all read the same play book.


----------



## squid1035

Hope1964 said:


> That's crappy that it took that long to get her gone.
> 
> You ARE prepared for her to come crawling back, right?? As in, the aforementioned can of lysol by the door?
> 
> What are you doing for YOU right now?


All I need to complete at this point is my financial affidavit. The parenting plan in completed and signed. And I have to get together other supporting paperwork. I've got a certification exam to take on Monday which ends my summer semester. I'll then have free time and the relief of her absence to concentrate on getting everything ready to file. Then I will.


----------



## squid1035

Then as soon as I file I will tell her and that there's no moving back to the house. Start looking for another apartment.


----------



## Hope1964

squid1035 said:


> All I need to complete at this point is my financial affidavit. The parenting plan in completed and signed. And I have to get together other supporting paperwork. I've got a certification exam to take on Monday which ends my summer semester. I'll then have free time and the relief of her absence to concentrate on getting everything ready to file. Then I will.


And what are you doing for YOU?


----------



## squid1035

Hope1964 said:


> And what are you doing for YOU?


Oh. For me? I don't know. Try to look for activities to fill up my time. Spend more time with my boys. Reach out to friends. Live life on my terms - authentically - whatever that means. I guess I have to sit down and figure that out.


----------



## squid1035

I've been reading a lot too. I just finished "Love Must Be Tough". I'm midway through "The Journey From Abandonment to Healing" which is really helpful in recognizing my deeper issues. I'm trying to understand how I allowed myself to get here so that it won't happen again.


----------



## Hope1964

You need to take care of YOU. Treat yourself to something - whatever you can afford, whether it's an ice cream cone or a new sports car. Make sure you are getting enough sleep, eating properly, exercising, all that stuff. Get a hobby if you don't already have one and RELAX. Go camping. Sleep all day. WHATEVER. Stuff that has nothing to do with her or your filing or your kids.


----------



## squid1035

Hope1964 said:


> You need to take care of YOU. Treat yourself to something - whatever you can afford, whether it's an ice cream cone or a new sports car. Make sure you are getting enough sleep, eating properly, exercising, all that stuff. Get a hobby if you don't already have one and RELAX. Go camping. Sleep all day. WHATEVER. Stuff that has nothing to do with her or your filing or your kids.


Sleep? I haven't really done too much of that. My 4am internal alarm clock wakes me up and then my thoughts take over. I do try and exercise regularly. My birthday is coming up in November and I plan on taking a solo trip somewhere. It's too hot for camping here but that is something I usually do with my boys. When I need some time alone I get on my bike and ride. Not as a workout but just as a means for feeling the outside world and floating through space. I do stuff. But not nearly enough.


----------



## Hope1964

squid1035 said:


> Sleep? I haven't really done too much of that. My 4am internal alarm clock wakes me up and then my thoughts take over. I do try and exercise regularly. My birthday is coming up in November and I plan on taking a solo trip somewhere. It's too hot for camping here but that is something I usually do with my boys. When I need some time alone I get on my bike and ride. Not as a workout but just as a means for feeling the outside world and floating through space. I do stuff. But not nearly enough.


So do MORE stuff. Pick one thing and do it now. When that's done do another. 

When I was recovering after I kicked my husband out I rearranged my bedroom. Then I bought some new clothes. Then I spent a whole weekend in bed reading and doing NOTHING else.


----------



## squid1035

Hope1964 said:


> So do MORE stuff. Pick one thing and do it now. When that's done do another.


I have projects I want to do. I'm a DIY woodworking newbie. I'll devote some time to that. I know. I've been so immersed in this affair and its fallout that I've almost totally lost myself. Honestly, posting on these forums is the only thing that has kept me sane. The only problem is that doing so keeps my mind only focused on the trauma. I need to get out of this head space.


----------



## Hope1964

Yes, you do. That won't happen if you keep obsessing about posting your **** online. Ask to have yourself banned for a week or whatever and focus entirely on your situation. INCLUDING stuff just for YOU. Schedule it if you think that will help.

Don't tell anyone because it's really NOT a good idea, but I got ****faced one night and spent it bawling over stupid movies (the ****faced part is what I don't recommend) It was very cathartic.

Are you in IC?


----------



## squid1035

Yeah, I'm in IC. But it isn't really helping lately. I feel heavier every time I leave his office. I might take a break from that too or look for someone else.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Yeah, I'm in IC. But it isn't really helping lately. I feel heavier every time I leave his office. I might take a break from that too or look for someone else.


IC can take time but if he is not working out find a new one.


----------



## Hope1964

Tell your IC that. That isn't the way it should be.


----------



## squid1035

So I passed WW as she left our neighborhood on her way to her apartment. This is the first night she's sleeping at her new place.

I'm alone with the kids for the 1st time.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> So I passed WW as she left our neighborhood on her way to her apartment. This is the first night she's sleeping at her new place.
> 
> I'm alone with the kids for the 1st time.


Good luck! I'm sure you three will do fine. How old are your kids again?

The parents who cheat and do this to their children are the most selfish b*****ds in the world...what kind of person would do this to their kids for some fantasy?


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> Truthseeker1,
> 
> When I left here, I simply couldn't handle the tough love. In retrospect, I really needed it. But at that time I was too emotionally strung out to handle it. I still value this place. I'm now in a mental place where I can handle the tough advice because now I'm prepared to make those choices, kind of.
> 
> On SI, I take what I can use and discard the rest. And there's plenty of "the rest". That said, I treat the Just Found Out forum like a triage unit, and offer first aid advice whenever I can give it. Infidelity is hell. Trauma, for sure.
> 
> I'm not taking sides or playing favorites. Everybody could use a second set of eyes to help them navigate their way through hell.


When I first read your entire thread, I was ready to 2x4 you to Indo-China. But you had

went silent for awhile. Amazing how different things are when you wipe those cracklings 

out of your eyes, ain't it? I'm known to give people more chances than the normal person

but.... when that line is crossed, ice cold and F you. Maybe you are that way too. Nothing

wrong with that. But NOW you KNOW. It took "this little" to blow up what you thought 

was "so massive." Keep on waking away.... nothing to return to.


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> Yeah, I'm in IC. But it isn't really helping lately. I feel heavier every time I leave his office. I might take a break from that too or look for someone else.


Once a D is 110%, an IC is of no use if they are pro-M at any cost. Shop around for another.

Unless.......... the guy is challenging you on why you want the D. A good IC will make you

cuss them under your breath, NOT regurgitate what you just told them, those are co-pay collectors.

And more ICs are in that category than not.


----------



## squid1035

Chuck71 said:


> Keep on waking away.... nothing to return to.


Chuck, you can 2x4 me to Indo-China and beyond. I need it. I wasn't ready before. I'm ready now.


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> Chuck, you can 2x4 me to Indo-China and beyond. I need it. I wasn't ready before. I'm ready now.


Can't change the past, what is done.... is done. Seems a Padawan sees a light, leading to the path.

You can't dodge bullets yet Neo.... but in time.......


----------



## Tim Cook

Divorce her and don’t look back. File asap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Malaise

squid1035 said:


> So I passed WW as she left our neighborhood on her way to her apartment. This is the first night she's sleeping at her new place.
> 
> I'm alone with the kids for the 1st time.


You've been alone for awhile.


----------



## Chuck71

Malaise said:


> You've been alone for awhile.



:iagree::iagree:

You were "together but alone"


----------



## farsidejunky

Chuck71 said:


> A good IC will make you
> 
> cuss them under your breath, NOT regurgitate what you just told them, those are co-pay collectors.


QFT.

Even if they aren't right, they make you evaluate your position deeper than before.


----------



## farsidejunky

squid1035 said:


> Chuck, you can 2x4 me to Indo-China and beyond. I need it. I wasn't ready before. I'm ready now.


Ironic that you need it now less than ever.


----------



## TDSC60

The "Cheater's Handbook" is real. It is amazing how most follow the same behavior of lies and deception. That is why the advice here is so spot on when it comes to predicting what a cheater will do.

It is also predictable what the betrayed spouse will do. Most think that their loved one HAS to be different and could not be as bad as we say here. It is hard to accept the truth of the situation.

I am glad you have accepted the truth. Now the hard part begins. Not letting the good memories you have of a loving wife and mother color your future when dealing with what you have now - a woman who values herself and her AP over all else. The more time you spend away from her, the better you will feel. Just let her go. Things will slowly get better. Good luck.


----------



## TAMAT

TDS,

You wrote *It is also predictable what the betrayed spouse will do. Most think that their loved one HAS to be different and could not be as bad as we say here. It is hard to accept the truth of the situation.*

You are correct that denial is a powerful drug too, almost as powerful as the affair drug itself. 

It was shocking at first when I started reading the affair stories and how similar to my Ws affair they were. It was like someone was writing my story over and over again. And like everyone else I didn't want to believe my W could have an affair or cheat on me.

Tamat


----------



## squid1035

My WW followed the playbook to a tee. And that may have inhibited our recovery. But I'd like to think that a WS that is truly committed to R would be willing to afford me a bit of grace for losing my mind a bit in the few months after her A. Sadly, she tried to flip it on me and argue that my reaction to her A could not qualify me for R. How's that for mental gymnastics. She cheats. I freak out. Therefore, I'm unsuitable for R. I picked a real winner.


----------



## Marc878

Your problem is you continue to wallow in the mire. You gonna actually do something or just continue to talk about your victim hood ?


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> My WW followed the playbook to a tee. And that may have inhibited our recovery. But I'd like to think that a WS that is truly committed to R would be willing to afford me a bit of grace for losing my mind a bit in the few months after her A. Sadly, she tried to flip it on me and argue that my reaction to her A could not qualify me for R. How's that for mental gymnastics. She cheats. I freak out. Therefore, I'm unsuitable for R. I picked a real winner.


If you were still in "your fog of DDay" you would have accepted this. You aren't there anymore.

Like I stated on my D thread, "my W had her foot on my throat and did nothing. This allowed me to

breath and realize, this was not what I wanted." Funny to a degree she wanted you out of her

life and she had the affair to do this. When you stood up and said -No Fing way-

She was attracted to you again. Sort of wants you back. But once you "see," you never wish to

go back to those days. VERY common on these threads. Squid... I'm pretty sure, to some point,

you still love your W. But you do not trust her at all. You can not love, without trust.

Well... you can but it is a very unhealthy love. Filing for D should be initiated because it is a 

year wait for D final (?), gives time for her to prove herself, IF she chooses to, and either way...

whether D or re-marry (my parents did) later, THIS M is dead. Squid.... if you think she will not

make attempts to get you back if you D her...... well.... my D was in 2012.... this past Wednesday

my first Happy Birthday message was from..... XW. Here's the funny part.... I don't have my birthday

listed on FB... only a handful remember it and they know to just message me. Yes Squid... at one time, 

I wanted her back. After I spent some time away from her, I realized I did not. Have never looked

back. Use this time away from her to realize..... what you most likely... already know.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Let me guess - "the rest" of the posts on SI that you ignored were the ones telling you like it *IS*, not patting you on the back and telling you to 'breath.' Why do people not know how to spell this freakin' word?

"The rest" are the posts you SHOULD have paid attention to all along.


----------



## squid1035

Chuck71 said:


> If you were still in "your fog of DDay" you would have accepted this. You aren't there anymore.
> 
> Squid... I'm pretty sure, to some point, you still love your W. But you do not trust her at all. You can not love, without trust.
> 
> Well... you can but it is a very unhealthy love. Filing for D should be initiated because it is a year wait for D final (?), gives time for her to prove herself, IF she chooses to, and either way... whether D or re-marry (my parents did) later, THIS M is dead. Squid.... if you think she will not make attempts to get you back if you D her...... well.... my D was in 2012.... this past Wednesday my first Happy Birthday message was from..... XW. Here's the funny part.... I don't have my birthday listed on FB... only a handful remember it and they know to just message me. Yes Squid... at one time, I wanted her back. After I spent some time away from her, I realized I did not. Have never looked back. Use this time away from her to realize..... what you most likely... already know.


To be sure, I do not trust her. Even her "work" lately to figure herself out through IC and reading is still highly suspect. Why now? Are her recent tears shed because of the pain she wrought on her family or because she realized just how horribly she crapped her own bed? The sucker in me wants to believe the former but it is likely the latter.

I have a few supporting docs I have to gather to officially file for D. My certification exam is tomorrow so I've been focused on that lately. Once my time is a little more free I will put a concerted effort into getting everything I need to file and then I will. If I can get it done this week, I most certainly will.

I've known that the M was dead for a while now. I was in heavy denial about it. Not anymore. I'm trying to figure what I really want for myself.

We're going for an uncontested D. My attorney says it will take 4 to 5 weeks to finalize after filing. Baby steps.


----------



## squid1035

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Let me guess - "the rest" of the posts on SI that you ignored were the ones telling you like it *IS*, not patting you on the back and telling you to 'breath.' Why do people not know how to spell this freakin' word?
> 
> "The rest" are the posts you SHOULD have paid attention to all along.


In fact, the SI community told me early on to get my ducks in a row and lawyer up. Yes, I was very much pro R, and SI is a pro R site. But it didn't take long for those members to knock some sense into me and get me to begin contemplating the very real possibility of D. They were "telling me like it is" but were more gentle about it. The pain of infidelity is nothing like I've experienced before. And I'm still experiencing it. The trauma. The triggers. The rollercoaster. I felt like the people at SI knew exactly what my head space looked like.

When I first went there, my first post was in the Reconciliation forum, just a few days after d-day. Oh, how optimistic I was! But there were plenty of members cautioning me on the hard road ahead that is R and that my WW was nowhere even close to being a good candidate. And sure enough, her even darker side emerged. And those folks over there helped me see it. But only because I was ready to accept that reality. 

When I left TAM, I wasn't ready to hear that. In full denial. But reading all the stories over on SI of false R and even D after R, I realized that R was impossible because I was the only one willing to put in the effort. I can handle the 2x4's now. But my heart has taken a massive, nearly-fatal hit. That's not me whining about my victimhood. That's me being honest. I nearly lost it this year. Being able to vent on SI and eventually back here was invaluable. 

When I talk about "the rest" on SI, I refer to those voices that are either still brutally scarred by infidelity that their perspective is still raw and very bitter. And then there are those that seem like they're just visiting the horror show and are only offering opinions not based on real-life experience with infidelity. Like I'd rather you opened with, "well, in my experience with infidelity...." or "my experience was very much like yours because..." At that time I needed both empathy and stern, no-nonsense advice. Does that make me a wussy? Probably. 

Ultimately, I was looking for hope. But I've since realized just how dangerous that can be towards really moving forward. I glance over the threads I posted here years ago and realize how much time I wasted and how much more pain I have experienced because I held out for hope. I remember members here flatly telling me how painfully co-dependent and pathetic I was. I just couldn't handle that or confront it at the time. Whatevs. I think I'm finally taking steps to get my life back. 

Baby steps. As in, unsure, wobbly-legged, drooly-faced baby steps.


----------



## squid1035

And to add, it's not as if D is an instant cure-all. In all honesty, I wanted to keep our family as united as possible. I came from a family that has a history of D and unconventional relationships. I didn't want that for mine. So I was willing to take the hits just as long as I could keep our family together. I realize now how flawed that is. I was afraid of D. The pain of it on our kids, and feeling like I was a colossal failure.

At any rate, D isn't just something that you do and then, "voila!", no more pain from infidelity! It's a decision that will affect our kids for the rest of their lives and will drastically change our dynamic in how we co-parent them. I know that there can be much success after D and that often kids will thrive in spite of it. I'm going to make sure of that, at least on my end.

I think I'm done ranting for the day.


----------



## Marc878

Look, your life has value too. Sure you take care of your kids the best you can but when they're grow they go their own way. 

Better think this through long term. 

You want to be a martyr go ahead but just realize when your kids hit their twenties your options will be more limited and your kids will be living their own lives.

Which means you'll be on your own.


----------



## ABHale

How did you inform the kids?


----------



## eric1

squid1035 said:


> Chuck, you can 2x4 me to Indo-China and beyond. I need it. I wasn't ready before. I'm ready now.




And ironically now you're doing great - no 2x4s necessary at all.

You're surrounded by a ton of people who are living proof that life can be good after divorce.


----------



## JohnA

Hi, 

I want to discuss how to detach by modifing the 180 at this point in the relationship. Yes keep the texts and emails focused on the children and fiancial matters, avoid phone conversations. Second how to detach without increasing the bitterness between the two of you. Understand you cannot be friend's, that allows the WS to offer justification to the worid for adultery. 

Accept the two of you have a lifetime of mutual dependence and team efforts. For a long while she will call you for help. You cannot do so. Instead be prepared to suggest other friend's she should call as you are in the middle of a project. Offer to call them and ask them to go over and help. That was how I got my exWW to stop calling me. I recall once suggesting calling her nephew and BIL she claimed she did but they where busy. I respond really, let me talk to them. Understand at one point the BIL, SIL, and nephew would have bee homeless except me bringing them into my home after she moved out. They offer to pay, my response respect my home, help clean sometimes and sometimes leave me leftovers. Take the money and save it and get your own place. They honored my wishes and stayed with me for two months. Note my STBexWW had a town house and had more then enough room to make the same offer. Anyone after I hung after her phone call I drove over to BIL and nephew told them to get off their asses into my truck and take care of WW problem. I stood outside until they where done and drove them home. Along the way I reminded them they owe me, their pay back would be her calling them not me. I made clear if she called me, I would drive over to their home and load them into the truck. She never called me again.

My point being I refused to allow the WW to turn into a friendship, but still managed to be a "nice guy" by offering suggestions as to who she could call. Also she was a little bitter about the fact her inlaws came over to help because I told them to. Karma? 

Plan ahead on how to side step her attempts to create a "friendship". My method worked perhaps it will for you. 

On another thread I shared how my friend had to fight for 50/50 custody and four years later gain 85/15 custody. He "gray rocked her". He obtained right of first refusal in a custody day was her's but her schedule conflicted. He was a teacher so he had term breaks and summers off. He took a very long view and did not worry about adjusting child support for four years. Well between a new job and a new social life the children came distant second. She would call claiming a late work night. His response of course I will take the kids for the night. I understand how hard it to re-establish yourself and the need to accept opportunities like this. Sometimes she call about a multiple day "business" trip. His reponse, don't forget to network that's really important down the line, good luck. Slowly his custody of the children grew over the next four years, yet he was always supportive and never discussed shifting the Child support he paid. Well the childen where about to hit middle school. Their social network firmly established from his home. He had careful journaled and documented everthing. He also provide receipts for idems he bought that she should have from the child support. 

Boom she got one night a week and every other week-ends and payed child support. She fell behind a few times to many so he got her wages garnished by court order. 

Plan ahead brother!


----------



## squid1035

*ABHale*,

Our DD18 knew what was happening. We were hanging out together a few weeks ago and I asked her flatly. She overheard us talking about it over the past few months. I suspected DS12 knew about it as he does this thing where he sneaks up on me when I'm in my office, ninja-style, and stands behind me sometimes minutes at a time before I notice. He's walked up behind me on many occasions while I'm posting here or on SI. I don't think he understands what infidelity means, but I'm pretty sure he knows it's wrong. DS17 has no clue as he's sort of the introvert of the siblings and mostly keeps to himself in his room. 

WW and I had previously agreed that we would sit them down together and let the kids know what was happening and what was going to happen. Well, last week WW sat them down and told them, without me. She gave them the "mom and dad aren't getting along so we're going to try separating" version. I sat them down that same evening and asked them all if mom explained what was happening. The boys nodded 'yes'. DD18 knowingly chimed in, "Well, she didn't tell us the REAL reason". So I explained, "When 2 people get married they make a promise to love one another and they make a vow to always remain faithful to one another. Mom invited a 3rd person into our marriage and I am not okay with that. So we thought that some time apart would be good so that we can let our emotions settle down". DS12 simply nodded his head and DS17 said, "whoa". I also explained that we did have other problems and we were having trouble agreeing on how to settle them. That was it.


*JohnA*

You make some great points, but this will be difficult for me. WW literally has no family in our area. Her entire family lives abroad, half way around the world. So I can't recruit any IL's to help her. I'll figure out a way to be not so involved in her affairs, but it's going to take some real logistical work. The parenting plan that we have agreed to (so far) is that I will have primary custody and she will have them every other weekend. So I'm at least happy that I won't experience a great loss of time spent with my kids. I see you are from the Tampa area, as am I. Lovely rain lately, eh?


----------



## farsidejunky

Good job correcting her minimizing to your children.


----------



## squid1035

farsidejunky said:


> Good job correcting her minimizing to your children.


Yeah. I wasn't surprised she went with that version. Just disappointed. But, sure, she gets it.


----------



## RWB

squid1035 said:


> Yeah. * I wasn't surprised she went with that version. * Just disappointed. But, sure, she gets it.


Cheater's HandBook: 

Rule 1 when busted red-handed... Minimize.


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> And to add, it's not as if D is an instant cure-all. In all honesty, I wanted to keep our family as united as possible. I came from a family that has a history of D and unconventional relationships. I didn't want that for mine. So I was willing to take the hits just as long as I could keep our family together. I realize now how flawed that is. I was afraid of D. The pain of it on our kids, and feeling like I was a colossal failure.
> 
> At any rate, D isn't just something that you do and then, "voila!", no more pain from infidelity! It's a decision that will affect our kids for the rest of their lives and will drastically change our dynamic in how we co-parent them. I know that there can be much success after D and that often kids will thrive in spite of it. I'm going to make sure of that, at least on my end.
> 
> I think I'm done ranting for the day.


I had two aunts, one uncle. One other I don't count, just plain BSC. All married for 35+ years.

Death took two, the other, a D but they remained close (but complete lunacy). My parents.... M in '66,

D thirty DAYS later, re-M in '68. All I knew were long M, steady (not super strong but stable).

So when I was faced with D, it was a bit embarrassing... like I was a failure.

But you learn quickly... it takes TWO to make it work. Try not to fret over the "D stigma,"

that subsided a good 25-30 years ago.


----------



## squid1035

Chuck71 said:


> So when I was faced with D, it was a bit embarrassing... like I was a failure.
> 
> But you learn quickly... it takes TWO to make it work. Try not to fret over the "D stigma,"
> 
> that subsided a good 25-30 years ago.


I posted this on another forum today:
*
You know, I used to always be of the opinion that infidelity was a no-no. My father was a cheater. He cheated on my mom then cheated on my step-mom, that I love as much as my own mother. So, a serial cheater was he. I made a commitment to myself that I would never cheat. Never mind that before I was married, I was the OM with a close gal pal of mine that was unhappy in her relationship. I didn't pursue her at all. We hung out all of the time, then one day she kissed me. She was also a serial cheater, I would later realize, that was pursuing me for some time. But I was so oblivious and had no clue. Fast forward 17 years to the cruel irony that is now my life. Karma, I guess?*

I'm not so much worried about the stigma. My sense of failure comes not just from the demise of the marriage. But also from that I failed at breaking the pattern of dysfunctional relationships that existed in my family's history. I suppose I put too much emphasis on making the marriage work even though it was painfully obvious that it was broken. And we were at one time genuinely happy. Even she attests to that. I can rest assured that I did every thing that I could. But as you say, it takes 2 to make it work.

I should add that infidelity is still a no-no. I think what I was originally thinking was that infidelity is a definite deal-breaker. As in something that can never be forgiven or can come back from in a marriage.


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> I posted this on another forum today:
> *
> You know, I used to always be of the opinion that infidelity was a no-no. My father was a cheater. He cheated on my mom then cheated on my step-mom, that I love as much as my own mother. So, a serial cheater was he. I made a commitment to myself that I would never cheat. Never mind that before I was married, I was the OM with a close gal pal of mine that was unhappy in her relationship. I didn't pursue her at all. We hung out all of the time, then one day she kissed me. She was also a serial cheater, I would later realize, that was pursuing me for some time. But I was so oblivious and had no clue. Fast forward 17 years to the cruel irony that is now my life. Karma, I guess?*
> 
> I'm not so much worried about the stigma. My sense of failure comes not just from the demise of the marriage. But also from that I failed at breaking the pattern of dysfunctional relationships that existed in my family's history. I suppose I put too much emphasis on making the marriage work even though it was painfully obvious that it was broken. And we were at one time genuinely happy. Even she attests to that. I can rest assured that I did every thing that I could. But as you say, it takes 2 to make it work.
> 
> I should add that infidelity is still a no-no. I think what I was originally thinking was that infidelity is a definite deal-breaker. As in something that can never be forgiven or can come back from in a marriage.


-Hey Squid.... we need to talk-
-Squid.....look, you need to listen to me, I want to talk-
-Damnit Squid.... (pulls your ears) look ahole, I am not getting out what I feel I want / need-

How many of those occurred? Can't repair / fix what you don't know. And Heaven forbid if the brow beaten person brings up issues they want to be worked on. Shivvermetimbers mate!!!

Then.... it's a glorified urinating contest. And.... one or sometimes both, end up on a forum, just like this one. Reason about everyone here agrees, communication is the key.

If a D takes 6 months to be final.... try taking those 6 months to try and work on yourselves.... keep in semi-contact, maybe coffee day chat / short date. Take sex or EAs off the table. 6 months, ain't a lifetime. Then a few weeks before the final.... see where each stands. If each had positive growth, wanted to make another go.... don't D.

But how often does that happen? One or both get selfish and acts as if nothing is wrong with one foot in the door, the other out the door. Most want to have a vine to swing to before they drop the long term one (marriage). Hence many people who repeat the same mistakes over and over and over and wonder WTF? Can't work on oneself when you hop from one person to another.

Life is by no means complicated, we humans just make it such.


----------



## squid1035

Chuck71 said:


> How many of those occurred? Can't repair / fix what you don't know. And Heaven forbid if the brow beaten person brings up issues they want to be worked on. Shivvermetimbers mate!!!
> 
> Then.... it's a glorified urinating contest. And.... one or sometimes both, end up on a forum, just like this one. Reason about everyone here agrees, communication is the key.
> 
> If a D takes 6 months to be final.... try taking those 6 months to try and work on yourselves.... keep in semi-contact, maybe coffee day chat / short date. Take sex or EAs off the table. 6 months, ain't a lifetime. Then a few weeks before the final.... see where each stands. If each had positive growth, wanted to make another go.... don't D.
> 
> But how often does that happen? One or both get selfish and acts as if nothing is wrong with one foot in the door, the other out the door. Most want to have a vine to swing to before they drop the long term one (marriage). Hence many people who repeat the same mistakes over and over and over and wonder WTF? Can't work on oneself when you hop from one person to another.


I talked about this with my IC last night. I'm basically seeing this separation as a pre-D. Hell, maybe that's what my WW's plan was with going along with this scenario. If, however, we are treating this time apart as a time for reflection, letting emotions settle down, to see where we are when she has to move out of that place, that could be a possibility too. But, as you suggest, I'd like it to be a full 6 months. Which means she'd have to find another place and we'd have to figure out how to pay for that. I'd be open to semi-contact, holiday gatherings, etc. But mostly I need time away from her to work on myself and truly figure out what I want for myself. She thinks she'll be moving back into our home in mid-September and maintain the status quo until she can afford to move out. Which sounds like limbo to me. No way, to that.

She hasn't gone back to IC in the last couple of weeks. Not that IC is a definite sign of working on oneself. But I'm damn sure that her judgement and mindset thus far have not served her well towards being a safe partner for me. And I don't know if that is even in her heart. I'd have to know she is doing work towards reforming herself and wanting to put in real effort towards rebuilding our relationship. At present, I think she's solely interested in preserving her image as that of the "not-so-evil wife/mom that did a horrible thing but how bad could she be 'cause her kids and husband still talk her". She doesn't feel bad for us. She feels bad at where she has ended up.

I've thought hard about R. But at present, I have no idea who I'd be R-ing with. Rather, I don't know or even think I like who this person is that is currently my wife.


----------



## squid1035

Chuck71 said:


> -Hey Squid.... we need to talk-
> -Squid.....look, you need to listen to me, I want to talk-
> -Damnit Squid.... (pulls your ears) look ahole, I am not getting out what I feel I want / need-
> 
> How many of those occurred? Can't repair / fix what you don't know.


Going back to this. Not enough. And only well after the fact. After her resentment grew and grew. And she kept moving the line or changing the standard. I simply couldn't win.


----------



## TDSC60

Your wife has been out of the marriage for years and has no intention of trying to change into a safe partner. It will take much longer than 6 months to change a mind set that has been developing for several years.

Don't worry about her - she has made the decision to focus on what she thinks will be her "happy ever after". Give up on the fantasy that she will change and come back to your marriage as safe committed partner - not gonna happen. Accept it and move on to care for your children and yourself. Get the D as soon as possible. Don't let her delay that for her own benefit.


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> Going back to this. Not enough. And only well after the fact. After her resentment grew and grew. And she kept moving the line or changing the standard. I simply couldn't win.


That was her entire point. Can't solve what one does not know. Can't measure attainability when one

does not know. Those were set-ups to manufacture reason to.... be resentful, bitter, cold, callous, 

and blame shifting. Makes sense looking back huh?


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> I talked about this with my IC last night. I'm basically seeing this separation as a pre-D. Hell, maybe that's what my WW's plan was with going along with this scenario. If, however, we are treating this time apart as a time for reflection, letting emotions settle down, to see where we are when she has to move out of that place, that could be a possibility too. But, as you suggest, I'd like it to be a full 6 months. Which means she'd have to find another place and we'd have to figure out how to pay for that. I'd be open to semi-contact, holiday gatherings, etc. But mostly I need time away from her to work on myself and truly figure out what I want for myself. She thinks she'll be moving back into our home in mid-September and maintain the status quo until she can afford to move out. Which sounds like limbo to me. No way, to that.
> 
> She hasn't gone back to IC in the last couple of weeks. Not that IC is a definite sign of working on oneself. But I'm damn sure that her judgement and mindset thus far have not served her well towards being a safe partner for me. And I don't know if that is even in her heart. I'd have to know she is doing work towards reforming herself and wanting to put in real effort towards rebuilding our relationship. At present, I think she's solely interested in preserving her image as that of the "not-so-evil wife/mom that did a horrible thing but how bad could she be 'cause her kids and husband still talk her". She doesn't feel bad for us. She feels bad at where she has ended up.
> 
> I've thought hard about R. But at present, I have no idea who I'd be R-ing with. Rather, I don't know or even think I like who this person is that is currently my wife.


When they are working on themselves, you WILL know it.


----------



## skerzoid

Squid

I have been reading your threads on TAM and SI for a long time without commenting. I understand your desire to find some way to save this relationship for your family. What I don't understand is how you could maintain this hope for years without any signs of affection from your WW. How could you go without this basic human need for so long and still hold out hope for her to become the safe partner you so desire (It shows through the bravado in your posts)? Is there no one who you could see yourself with that could give you what every human desires and needs like oxygen? She neither deserves your unrequited love nor wants it. I would think that your children are old enough to understand reality. So.... when do you take the decisive action that has to happen so all can start to heal? When do you put this fiasco out of its misery?


----------



## farsidejunky

Chuck71 said:


> When they are working on themselves, you WILL know it.


QFT.


----------



## TDSC60

Hope and trying to reach an unattainable goal are sometimes detrimental to healing. 

Take a cold hard look at your wife. She is an unrepentant cheater. She is focused on what she wants. She does not care what pain her actions have caused others. Evidently she is still in contact with her "white knight" who provided so much happiness to her and has visions of joining him when she can.

She is no longer your concern. She gave that job to OM. Her future happiness is tied to him, not you and your kids. You have been delegated to the financial path to get her to her ultimate goal - away from you - the man she stopped loving years ago. 

This is who she is now. Would you take this woman back as a wife?


----------



## squid1035

TDSC60 said:


> Hope and trying to reach an unattainable goal are sometimes detrimental to healing.
> 
> Take a cold hard look at your wife. She is an unrepentant cheater. She is focused on what she wants. She does not care what pain her actions have caused others. Evidently she is still in contact with her "white knight" who provided so much happiness to her and has visions of joining him when she can.
> 
> She is no longer your concern. She gave that job to OM. Her future happiness is tied to him, not you and your kids. You have been delegated to the financial path to get her to her ultimate goal - away from you - the man she stopped loving years ago.
> 
> This is who she is now. Would you take this woman back as a wife?


No. No I would not.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Hows it going @squid1035?


----------



## squid1035

Meh. Kind of a rough weekend inside my head. But no drama.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Meh. Kind of a rough weekend inside my head. But no drama.


Is the wife still out of the house?


----------



## squid1035

Yes, she's still out of the house. We've got the first of a couple school orientations coming up on Thursday so I'm going to being seeing her for the first time face-to-face since she moved out. I'm a little anxious. She's been wanting to talk about kid stuff, but in person or on the phone - which I've deflected.

I've told her that I don't want her coming with us when I take the kids to drive our DD18 up to move her in for college in 2 weeks.

Mentally I've been waffling back and forth between "Effing-A, D-train here we come!" and "But maybe R though..." But as each day goes by, D-train looks more right, both in my head and heart. I know. Bargaining like a fool.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Yes, she's still out of the house. We've got the first of a couple school orientations coming up on Thursday so I'm going to being seeing her for the first time face-to-face since she moved out. I'm a little anxious. She's been wanting to talk about kid stuff, but in person or on the phone - which I've deflected.
> 
> I've told her that I don't want her coming with us when I take the kids to drive our DD18 up to move her in for college in 2 weeks.
> 
> Mentally I've been waffling back and forth between "Effing-A, D-train here we come!" and "But maybe R though..." But as each day goes by, D-train looks more right, both in my head and heart. I know. Bargaining like a fool.


She wants a D right? Is she still seeing her AP? If so what is there to save?


----------



## squid1035

Truthseeker1 said:


> She wants a D right? Is she still seeing her AP? If so what is there to save?


Well, social media confirms that AP is on the other side of the country, as was his plan to relocate there. I know she broke NC back in April and lingered there for about 3 more weeks until I found her out, but could not confirm. As in, I saw suspicious phone activity, confronted, and then it magically stopped ever since. 

She's waffling about wanting D or R. I'm over it. The more I think about R-ing with someone that treated me the way she did, especially after d-day, the more I want to D. Old habits die hard and I struggle, but I know what I need to do. I'm getting through the financial affidavit now. It's daunting and depressing at the same time. But I'm pecking away at it. There's lots happening as we prep for the start of the school year for our kiddos.


----------



## farsidejunky

Squid:

If her answer to reconciliation is not "hell yeah!", then it is no.


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Well, social media confirms that AP is on the other side of the country, as was his plan to relocate there. I know she broke NC back in April and lingered there for about 3 more weeks until I found her out, but could not confirm. As in, I saw suspicious phone activity, confronted, and then it magically stopped ever since.
> 
> She's waffling about wanting D or R. I'm over it. The more I think about R-ing with someone that treated me the way she did, especially after d-day, the more I want to D. Old habits die hard and I struggle, but I know what I need to do. I'm getting through the financial affidavit now. It's daunting and depressing at the same time. But I'm pecking away at it. There's lots happening as we prep for the start of the school year for our kiddos.


If she is waffling then she is not 100% committed to R...what is the point? Until she is done with the AP - and you are sure of it what is left to save? If he didn't relocate do you think she would be with him? Will she R until the kids are all out of the house and then take off to be with him? There seems to be too many lingering questions before you can consider R with this woman.


----------



## Truthseeker1

farsidejunky said:


> Squid:
> 
> If her answer to reconciliation is not "hell yeah!", then it is no.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> Yes, she's still out of the house. We've got the first of a couple school orientations coming up on Thursday so I'm going to being seeing her for the first time face-to-face since she moved out. I'm a little anxious. She's been wanting to talk about kid stuff, but in person or on the phone - which I've deflected.
> 
> I've told her that I don't want her coming with us when I take the kids to drive our DD18 up to move her in for college in 2 weeks.
> 
> Mentally I've been waffling back and forth between "Effing-A, D-train here we come!" and "But maybe R though..." But as each day goes by, D-train looks more right, both in my head and heart. I know. Bargaining like a fool.


If you're honest with yourself, you'll realize that divorce is the only reasonable path before you... which is to say that your head _already_ gets it.

Like pretty much everyone else that has ever faced this decision, though, it's your stupid heart that refuses to see the truth.

Ain't love grand?


----------



## squid1035

GusPolinski said:


> Like pretty much everyone else that has ever faced this decision, though, it's your stupid heart that refuses to see the truth.
> 
> Ain't love grand?


Oh, it's a real peach!!


----------



## GusPolinski

Truthseeker1 said:


> She wants a D right?


Yes.

She just doesn't want to be the one to file/pay for it.



Truthseeker1 said:


> Is she still seeing her AP?


Though it may be virtual-only for now, yes.



Truthseeker1 said:


> If so what is there to save?


For her?

Her image, basically. Being able to tell her kids, family, and even herself that she's not the one that filed.

For @squid1035? Realistically?

Nothing.


----------



## GusPolinski

squid1035 said:


> Oh, it's a real peach!!


You know the thing about peaches, right?

The pits.


----------



## squid1035

GusPolinski said:


> You know the thing about peaches, right?
> 
> The pits.


ZING!!!

And as to your prior post, all absolutely true. I get to be the bearer of bad news while she somehow manipulates the situation to her advantage aka she's the victim.


----------



## Truthseeker1

GusPolinski said:


> If you're honest with yourself, you'll realize that divorce is the only reasonable path before you... which is to say that your head _already_ gets it.
> 
> Like pretty much everyone else that has ever faced this decision, though, it's your stupid heart that refuses to see the truth.
> 
> Ain't love grand?


From @squid1035 's description of things - the love in this marriage only goes one way. What a f***ing example for her kids...SMH


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> ZING!!!
> 
> And as to your prior post, all absolutely true. I get to be the bearer of bad news while she somehow manipulates the situation to her advantage aka she's the victim.


Cheaters tend to make everything about them - they want to be the victim too - they have the affair, blow up their family and then play the victim. You read other boards squid - ever see how those WW's behave, how they throw around the term "abuse" for getting called a bad name? You must see your wife's behavior reflected in frequent wayward contributors that you read.


----------



## anchorwatch

She's the victim??? 

How long have you been working to put this relationship and family back on track? How much time and money have you put out for MC/IC? How many boards have you look to for help. How much did you throw at that marriage fitness stuff? Who was it that cheated after all of that?

All this it proof you've been trying to do this all alone. 

Yeah she's the victim... She's an actress that doesn't want anyone to see the real truth about her. 


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Truthseeker1

anchorwatch said:


> She's the victim???
> 
> How long have you been working to put this relationship and family back on track? How much time and money have you put out for MC/IC? How much did you throw at that marriage fitness stuff? Who was it that cheated after all of that?
> 
> All this it proof you've been trying to do this all alone.
> 
> Yeah she's the victim... right
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


As you know this is common - cheaters need to be at the center of attention - so after their get their ego kibbles from the affair they want to be a victim too during its aftermath...its always about them..always..


----------



## TRy

squid1035 said:


> She's waffling about wanting D or R.


 The real question is not if she wants D or R. The real question is if she is remorseful such that she is willing to do the heavy lifting required of a cheater that wants to save their marriage. With her "waffling about wanting D or R", that answer to that question is a clear no. Thus she is not really giving you an option of true R. Nothing to see here, now move along.


----------



## Chuck71

Whether she chooses R or D, YOUR choice should be D. Her cheating killed the M.

Kill the M, D her. If she chooses R, do it as a D couple. She lost the right to say she is Mrs. Squid.

She loses the spousal privileges of being Mrs. Squid. Plus you have a much easier "out" if she 

drags her arse in a R.


----------



## theDrifter

When a BH gets to where you are now you simply have to harden your heart and do what you know is the right thing to do. Life will go on without her, you will feel good again, things will get better and better. Believe it and follow your head...



Let me TJ for a second. I went back to the OP and read through it. Of course I found that in the beginning this was an "EA" but then:

*Yes, PA came to light.*

All I could think was "Every time. *Every God damn time!*". When the "EA" partners have reasonable access to each other they had sex, are having sex, and will continue to have sex if left unchecked. We see this, literally, on a weekly basis yet BH always believes that in their case, it's different. I understand how powerful denial can be but when faced with the overwhelming evidence that when the partners can get at each other, EA is a myth - they refuse to even consider she screwed the guy. It makes no sense.


----------



## anchorwatch

@squid1035, I got a feeling you're at a low spot? You have got to fight it off. don't let it hold you... stay active...


----------



## squid1035

anchorwatch said:


> @squid1035, I got a feeling you're at a low spot? You have got to fight it off. don't let it hold you... stay active...


Yeah, I'm feeling pretty low. As *GusP* pointed out, my heart is fighting my head, but I think acceptance is slowly happening.

I've been skimming through my old, pre-A threads I posted here years ago. I held on for so damn long. Worked on me. Read books. IC. For what? How much pain would I have saved myself had I not just accepted D long ago? I could have healed from that. I know I'll heal from this, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.

I've been perusing the links in the thread featured in your profile - "I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?" Looking for clues in what I did wrong. It's pointless, I know. But I am trying to learn from this mess.


----------



## TDSC60

It is hard to accept that the woman you loved and had kids with stopped loving you and turned to another man for happiness. It is even harder to accept that you did NOTHING wrong. It is hard to admit that you could not have seen what was happening before it got so bad. Like I said earlier - this is typical Betrayed Spouse behavior.

Stop blaming yourself. This is all on her. It was her decision to take OM into your life. All this happened without your knowledge or consent. The consequences can be laid at her feet.

The biggest problem is to understand that the woman who is now your wife is not the same woman you married. They may look the same on the outside, but something inside her changed. You could not have stopped this. It happens more time than most are willing to admit. She is no longer the good wife and mother that you loved and this is what is causing to so much pain and regret as you flip flopping out and back between R & D.

You cannot forget the good wife and mother she was, but you have to accept that she is no longer that person. She is now the cheating, deceptive, self absorbed woman focused on how she can get what she wants in the future regardless of who she steps on to get it. Once you can separate the two in your mind, the decision becomes easy.


----------



## farsidejunky

squid1035 said:


> Yeah, I'm feeling pretty low. As *GusP* pointed out, my heart is fighting my head, but I think acceptance is slowly happening.
> 
> I've been skimming through my old, pre-A threads I posted here years ago. I held on for so damn long. Worked on me. Read books. IC. For what? How much pain would I have saved myself had I not just accepted D long ago? I could have healed from that. I know I'll heal from this, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.
> 
> I've been perusing the links in the thread featured in your profile - "I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?" Looking for clues in what I did wrong. It's pointless, I know. But I am trying to learn from this mess.


Squid:

That's because you are looking at trying to be a better man either for or despite her.

You need to become a better man with no regard for her...none...zip...zilch... zero. You do it for you. 

You need to read Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s by Wayne Levine. It gives you the way forward when you want to align your life with your values and principles.


----------



## anchorwatch

squid1035 said:


> I've been perusing the links in the thread featured in your profile - "I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?" Looking for clues in what I did wrong. It's pointless, I know. But I am trying to learn from this mess.


You didn't do anything wrong, she wasn't in it from the beginning!

You did pay too much attention to her and not enough to you... in that, all your work was not for you, it was to pursue her and she distanced further... 

Best


----------



## Truthseeker1

squid1035 said:


> Yeah, I'm feeling pretty low. As *GusP* pointed out, my heart is fighting my head, but I think acceptance is slowly happening.
> 
> I've been skimming through my old, pre-A threads I posted here years ago. I held on for so damn long. Worked on me. Read books. IC. For what? How much pain would I have saved myself had I not just accepted D long ago? I could have healed from that. I know I'll heal from this, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.
> 
> I've been perusing the links in the thread featured in your profile - "I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?" Looking for clues in what I did wrong. It's pointless, I know. But I am trying to learn from this mess.


Your read books and work on yourself for YOU - not her. She is a POS willing to destroy her family and that is her sin not yours. Your life is yours to do with what you want. Try to be civil for the kids but after that who cares about her. Remember this if she ever does date or remarry her new guy has a cheater - what a fvcking prize.


----------



## turnera

squid1035 said:


> I've been perusing the links in the thread featured in your profile - "I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?" Looking for clues in what I did wrong. It's pointless, I know. But I am trying to learn from this mess.


What have you learned so far?

And Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s is a great book for you.


----------



## SunCMars

Hope1964 said:


> You need to take care of YOU. Treat yourself to something - whatever you can afford, whether it's an ice cream cone or *a new sports car. * Make sure you are getting enough sleep, eating properly, exercising, all that stuff. Get a hobby if you don't already have one and RELAX. Go camping. Sleep all day. WHATEVER. Stuff that has nothing to do with her or your filing or your kids.


I sent your hubby an email telling him to get a sports car. That you would approve.

Your' welcome.
.........................................................................................................

Your armed friend, South of the border.


----------



## SunCMars

squid1035 said:


> Yes, she's still out of the house. We've got the first of a couple school orientations coming up on Thursday so I'm going to being seeing her for the first time face-to-face since she moved out. I'm a little anxious. She's been wanting to talk about kid stuff, but in person or on the phone - which I've deflected.
> 
> I've told her that I don't want her coming with us when I take the kids to drive our DD18 up to move her in for college in 2 weeks.
> 
> Mentally I've been waffling back and forth between "Effing-A, D-train here we come!" and "But maybe R though..." But as each day goes by, D-train looks more right, both in my head and heart. I know. Bargaining like a fool.


Senor Squidster,

Your problem?

You are not a quitter.
....................................................
Your strength?

You are not a quitter.
....................................................

You are a loyal man.

Take that loyalty and tie it to the the heart strings of another loyal women.

But, take your time. Sometimes loyalty is overshadowed by lust and the [hasty pasty] that one slathers on their "morning after" toast to the new partner. Some women and men really look good on the outside. Outward actions look good. 

On close inspection, when you manually raise up their [pieces parts] and look underneath.....you see cracks. Cracks in their invisible [to the world] wall.

In all honesty, we all have cracks. If those cracks are visible and "tended" to, kept from spreading.....all is good. 

Alas, we hope. Hope, not from Canada.


----------



## Chuck71

Squid...... I know it's hard. I don't give up easy when I know what I want. A lot of it stems from my 

botched surgery as a teen. But when your goal involves two people and only one seems to give a damn,

you are spinning your wheels. I wanted my M to work.... after she said she wanted out, I soon went

to file. I still can't believe I filled those out in front of her without breaking down.

I told her three times we should try to save the M, twice verbal.... once in a letter. For a good six weeks,

I was a basket case. Then I had my "point," 12-11-12.... let it all go. Let what will be, be.

I was getting the house, so I left for a few days around Christmas and New Years. Then... I left until

she moved out after the D was final. It wasn't three weeks after my "point" and a week after I left the house, her reaches began. LOL.... I thought she had the upper hand.... little did I know

it was the complete opposite. I suspected her of cheating but.... never knew for sure. Didn't matter.... 

walking out on the M was enough. It's been nearly five years since my DDay and she STILL makes 

reaches. I was where you are now. The longer I was away from her, the more I realized, I didn't

want to go back.

Don't beat yourself up for not being aware of her actions earlier. Now you know. You were here 

four years ago, with that gut feeling. She has no interest in the M and hasn't for years..... she just

wanted the perks.


----------



## VFW

Don't fret the desire to reconcile at first, only to have her rebuff your gracious terms of reconciliation. At least you can ride off in the sunset knowing that you gave it your all. Did it cause you more pain? Yes, but it is a lesson that some of us have to learn the hard way. I was way worse, so don't sweat the petty things. This is going to take a long time to resolve and it will consist of good days-bad days, but just keep putting one foot in front of the other. She is probably going to want to reconcile the closer she gets to 15 September, you have been her security blanket for a long time. However, just because she wants an easy out doesn't mean you have to bring her back in the house. The move in and out is very hard on the children, they need a new normal to get them ready for a new school year. I recommend letting things progress legally and rebuilding yourself. You are doing better than you think, just stay on course.


----------



## Truthseeker1

Hey @squid1035 how are you doing?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Hey Squid, just curious - was the POSOM of Pinoy origins too ?


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> Yeah, I'm feeling pretty low. As *GusP* pointed out, my heart is fighting my head, but I think acceptance is slowly happening.
> 
> I've been skimming through my old, pre-A threads I posted here years ago. I held on for so damn long. Worked on me. Read books. IC. For what? How much pain would I have saved myself had I not just accepted D long ago? I could have healed from that. I know I'll heal from this, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.
> 
> I've been perusing the links in the thread featured in your profile - "I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?" Looking for clues in what I did wrong. It's pointless, I know. But I am trying to learn from this mess.


Ow's yousa doin?


----------



## squid1035

Chuck71 said:


> Ow's yousa doin?


Sadly, still married. But I'm getting closer to being divorced. Enumerating the assets and financials is time consuming and I've already busy with other life stuff. I need this process to go faster.


----------



## Chuck71

What other life stuff are you doing?


----------



## Sports Fan

Hope you are well. Stay Strong. Hopefully it will all be over soon.


----------



## squid1035

ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT:

For those that joined me here, it’s done. Divorce finalized yesterday. I can lay this chapter to rest. Happy holidays.


----------



## syhoybenden

Looks like Santa was very good to you this year.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Congrats....can you share more about the updates?


----------



## Edmund

His story during the last year is on SI. He gave her about a dozen 2nd chances. She dragged her feet all the way until about a few weeks ago she finally signed and gave up. She was trying to hold on to her meal ticket. Since 2014, she wanted to stay in the family as an additional daughter (dating other men) and mom to their kids but not as his wife. She never took responsibility for her infidelity and blamed him as an “equal” contributor to their marriage problems when what she did was much worse. Not sure Squid every did anything wrong except love her unconditionally and hang onto “hopium” to long. Her AP skipped town a year or so ago and disappeared out west somewhere.

Squid is a decent guy and has suffered mightily from this. I suggest we leave him alone except for well wishes. No “what took you so long” messages.


----------



## squid1035

Edmund said:


> His story during the last year is on SI. He gave her about a dozen 2nd chances. She dragged her feet all the way until about a few weeks ago she finally signed and gave up. She was trying to hold on to her meal ticket. Since 2014, she wanted to stay in the family as an additional daughter (dating other men) and mom to their kids but not as his wife. She never took responsibility for her infidelity and blamed him as an “equal” contributor to their marriage problems when what she did was much worse. Not sure Squid every did anything wrong except love her unconditionally and hang onto “hopium” to long. Her AP skipped town a year or so ago and disappeared out west somewhere.



Couldn't have summarized it better, Edmund. More importantly, I didn't lose my kids. I have primary custody of our minor son. She's already started moving out.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

squid1035 said:


> She's already started moving out.


She's been doing that for about 2 years now.

I hope *this* time, she actually does it. 

Tell her for me that I hope the door doesn't hit her where the good Lord split her. Pffft.

Welcome to the rest of your life, Squid. Enjoy.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

squid1035 said:


> ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT:
> 
> For those that joined me here, it’s done. Divorce finalized yesterday. I can lay this chapter to rest. Happy holidays.


Congrats to you! Welcome to the other side!


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> Couldn't have summarized it better, Edmund. More importantly, I didn't lose my kids. I have primary custody of our minor son. She's already started moving out.


Congrats Squid! Long road..... but you made it. How do you feel? Any regrets or clear sailing post-D?

How are the kids?


----------



## squid1035

Chuck71 said:


> How do you feel? Any regrets or clear sailing post-D?
> 
> How are the kids?



My only regret is that I didn't listen to the advice I got here years ago and divorced her before the infidelity horror show of last year.

As far as I can tell the kids are okay. I'm trying to be as available and honest with them about everything.


----------



## Chuck71

squid1035 said:


> My only regret is that I didn't listen to the advice I got here years ago and divorced her before the infidelity horror show of last year.
> 
> As far as I can tell the kids are okay. I'm trying to be as available and honest with them about everything.


How'd the holidays go Squid???


----------



## Edmund

Chuck71 said:


> How'd the holidays go Squid???


 Also on SI. They haven't told extended family yet so they had to pretend everything was status quo over the weekend. I think (thought) he was going to boot her out. Sounds like she's scheduled to move out in January. If, like Shesstillgotit thinks, she doesn't move out for some reason, she has won and gotten everything she wanted: D, so she can go date OMs, still sees her kids 100%, living in the family home, everybody thinking things are good, and worst of all Squid still supporting her financially and have to see her everyday. Squid please find some nice woman to date and make sure XW knows it. Happy new Year.


----------



## Chuck71

Edmund said:


> Also on SI. They haven't told extended family yet so they had to pretend everything was status quo over the weekend. I think (thought) he was going to boot her out. Sounds like she's scheduled to move out in January. If, like Shesstillgotit thinks, she doesn't move out for some reason, she has won and gotten everything she wanted: D, so she can go date OMs, still sees her kids 100%, living in the family home, everybody thinking things are good, and worst of all Squid still supporting her financially and have to see her everyday. Squid please find some nice woman to date and make sure XW knows it. Happy new Year.


:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


----------



## Edmund

Chuck71 said:


> :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:



Ouch?


----------



## OutofRetirement

You're no quitter, that's for sure.

Are you still holding hope that she'll realize what she's missing and come back to you?


----------



## jlg07

Is there a link to the story on SI?


----------



## VFW

squid1035 said:


> My only regret is that I didn't listen to the advice I got here years ago and divorced her before the infidelity horror show of last year.
> 
> As far as I can tell the kids are okay. I'm trying to be as available and honest with them about everything.


Yeah I have been there, done that, maybe we should print up T-shirts. I went through a very similar situation and the good thing is I found a very good woman they next time around and have been happily married ever since. It's a brave new world out there my friend. Happy New Year to you and your family.


----------



## Rick Blaine

If the Coping with Infidelity section of TAM has a subtitle it would be, "How to enable a wayward and prolong one's personal agony." And Squid's story illustrates that subtitle. This thread is a tale of woe that is instructive for those just discovering their spouse's cheating or falling out of love. Learn from this. 

Inaction equals prolonged misery...for years.
Indecisiveness equals emasculation.
Not setting boundaries equals getting walked all over.
Mr. Niceguy equals Mr. Welcome Mat

Here is how this should have gone:

1) As soon as Squid learned that his wife wanted to be a just roommate, he should have sought counseling and worked on fixing the marriage. If changes needed to be made, that was the time to make them. Squid should have set benchmarks (i.e., by X date, there will be intimacy and sexual fulfillment in the relationship). When these benchmarks weren't met, he should have separated and eventually filed for divorce. That didn't happen.

2) Then when he discovered all the text messages to Matt, he should have demanded she ended the relationship or leave. And if she chose to stay he should have demanded complete transparency and an effort to restore love and intimacy to their relationship. That also didn't happen.

3) When he learned it was a physical affair, there were no consequences. More carrying on without setting and enforcing boundaries. Big mistake.

Squid chose to endure because he cared about his children and the sacredness of marriage. Yes, noble and correct. But without boundaries and action, there is NOTHING to fight for, time is wasted, and the betrayed spouse it emasculated. Not the right way to drive one's life.

For any betrayed husbands reading this thread, learn from this. Man up. Set boundaries. Be decisive. Take action. Don't waste a second of time.

I'm glad Squid is finally moving forward. Notice how his kids are doing fine. He's doing a good job of not rug sweeping this with them, and he's putting them first. Good man. I only wish he was in this place years ago.


----------

