# Can short-term separation help a marriage?



## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hey everyone!

I'm back! It's been awhile since I posted on these forums, but I felt it was time I come back and hopefully can get some good advice that will either save my marriage or help me move on. 

I don't know if anyone remembers me, but I had a lot of issues recently with my wife and her general contempt for my gaming habits and my seeming inability to keep things clean/tidy to her standard.

One of the things you might remember is when she went away for a week and came back to an apartment that was only partially cleaned. I had a bit of a mess in my room from shipping some of old hobby/games away and dinner wasn't ready and waiting for her. You can read more about that here... posting link soon.

In a way, things have gotten better and worse at the same time.....

The Good?

-She went out of town again near the end of July. This time, I actually put forth serious effort to have the house nice and clean and even left work early to try and plan a "romantic" surprise by buying her flowers. When she got home, she didn't complain that much (like last time), but she also didn't seem to be all that thrilled about the flowers I bought (it was a very subdued thanks).

-Since then, we've also discussed moving to CA together, bringing her parents here from the Philippines, etc.


-She no longer seems to care if I go out and hang out with fellow gamers on Friday night, in fact, sometimes she encourages it. Even on nights when I intend to stay home and spend the Friday evening with her, she'll often ask "Aren't you going to play tonight? You can still go, it's not too late!" or she'll ask if I want to go out and "play". In a way, this is nice because it gives me time to enjoy hobbies and have fun with people who have similar interests, try to make new friends, socialize, have fun, etc. She says she used to it and says she enjoys being alone now and she's "used to it"....

She also pushes me to go the gym (which is good, because I signed up for a membership, but procrastinate actually going to the gym). 

We have good days where we laugh, talk about our days at work, go out Paddleboarding, shopping or whatever..


The Sad and the Ugly.

-She feels extremely sad and emotionally dead in our relationship. I can't kiss, hug, caress or barely touch her without her getting annoyed and pushing me away. The only times I can even cuddle with her is when she's asleep and doesn't resist. One of my main love languages is touch, and I really can't help myself, especially when she's actually in a happy/good mood--I just find her irresistible when it comes to hugging/smelling her hair or some form of physical contact.

-Whenever she "lets" me hug her, it's one of those hugs where you late a person hug you, but you don't really want to return the embrace. She'll lean it, arms at her side, etc.


-After returning from Cali this time, she said I should have just stayed at work and I didn't need to try and make things nice for since she's "used" to it. She also said she had a great, fun time there, but dreaded coming back to our house and our messed up relationship. She also said she felt like moving there, living with her family in Cali and starting over.


We've discussed separating for a short period of time (like a few weeks to a month). She wants to feel less stressed out and "free". It seems like no matter what I do, she'll become annoyed or frustrated with something I do. Not necessarily everyday, but it seems like several times a week, I'll do something that bothers her. I think she feels that separating may give her to collect her thoughts, figure out what she wants to do with her life and our relationship and who knows, maybe reset her mood and maybe she'll even want to make our relationship work again.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

As a rule, separation is almost always a precursor to divorce so no, I don't think it would do any good unless divorce was your goal. Having said that and I don't intend to be hurtful, but it sure sounds like your wife is just plain not into you. Might be time to cut your losses and move on.

I don't believe you mentioned it but how often, if at all, do you have sex? From the sounds of it, especially if she seems to move away from simple embraces or hugs, I would wager not much. If that be true, then what is there really to save?

And one other point, whenever someone uses the word, "free", that's merely code for they want to start seeing other people. Trust me, that's always the meaning.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I don't believe separation fixes marriages. How can you resolve the problems by avoiding them? At best, it lets people choose if they preferred the bad marriage to being alone, but it doesn't actually fix a bad marriage. At worst, it lets people play at being single and exploring a new relationship, and that's the direct path to divorce.

It's my belief that whoever suggests separation has already decided they want a divorce but is too cowardly to come out and say it. It's like the soft-sell of "I want a divorce."



JukeboxHero said:


> -She feels extremely sad and emotionally dead in our relationship. I can't kiss, hug, caress or barely touch her without her getting annoyed and pushing me away.* The only times I can even cuddle with her is when she's asleep and doesn't resist.* One of my main love languages is touch, and I really can't help myself, especially when she's actually in a happy/good mood--I just find her irresistible when it comes to hugging/smelling her hair or some form of physical contact.


And this part?!?!!? If she doesn't like it when she's awake, you DON'T DO IT when she's asleep!


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> And this part?!?!!? If she doesn't like it when she's awake, you DON'T DO IT when she's asleep!


Why do you say that? It's just innocent spooning, she knows I do it and never complains or tells me not to, it's just when she's awake that it seems to annoy her.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Mostlycontent said:


> As a rule, separation is almost always a precursor to divorce so no, I don't think it would do any good unless divorce was your goal. Having said that and I don't intend to be hurtful, but it sure sounds like your wife is just plain not into you. Might be time to cut your losses and move on.
> 
> I don't believe you mentioned it but how often, if at all, do you have sex? From the sounds of it, especially if she seems to move away from simple embraces or hugs, I would wager not much. If that be true, then what is there really to save?
> 
> And one other point, whenever someone uses the word, "free", that's merely code for they want to start seeing other people. Trust me, that's always the meaning.



Thanks for your advice, 

At this point, she's definitely not into me. At all. There is no physical intimacy at all. She doesn't find my physically attractive at all, but likes to point out what a hunk my sister married, or how hot "Green Arrow" and other buff actors/characters are.

I haven't actually had PIV sex in a very long time, but part of that is due to some ED issues. Whenever we do, it's mostly me doing oral on her (she used to do return the favor, but has not done so in at least a year). At this point, we don't even do that. I'm feeling less "horny" around her too, since I'm basically physically rejected every time I get close to her and she makes no effort to physically arouse me. 

Also, I don't know how long this separation would be for her. She's very back and forth on this whole thing. One day, she'll talk about how she really wants to be alone/on her own. The next day, we'll be talking about moving somewhere together or bringing her parents here. 

We discussed several scenarios, but they all seem difficult..

1. She seems to want a very short separation, ranging from 2-8 wks. Meaning one of us would move out for very short period of time then move back...I guess?

2. If I moved out, she said she would still want me to pay rent, which would be almost financially impossible for me, unless I found a really good friend who would let me crash at their house for free.

3. She also doesn't want to live with anyone, ie. no roommates and most likely no moving in with a friend. If we do separate, I will most likely need roommates to assist in paying for rent bills and I certainly can't pay rent on 2 places.

Again, we're both uncertain about how this relationship should play out. Our families and religions are both pushing us to "make it work, no matter what". My wife also had a long talk with my sister, and unloaded all the problems and feelings she had in our relationship. My wife wouldn't share many details with me, but I did confide in my sister and she told me that my wife's "Love Tank" was on empty and I should step up, take the leadership role and be around her/take care of her as much as possible. 

Along with that advice comes more confusion. If I try to be around her, she seems to get annoyed by my presence and/or things. She'll tell me leave her be and do my own thing, again saying that she's used to being alone or wants some space

Other times, she'll still complain if I spend too much time on my computer or phone, etc...

I usually retire to my computer/room because...

She spends most nights watching Grey's Anatomy or Mistresses on TV and although I do get sucked into these shows on occasion, I often feel like I could find better ways to spend my time.
I wonder if these shows have set her expectations too high because I'm not Mr. McDreamy"


On a positive note, I decided to spend the weekend with her because she had some bad allergies and an earache. At the moment, she's not complaining too much or talking about how she wants to live separately for awhile. Still, we're basically like roommates who do a lot of stuff together.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I don't see how separating can help a marriage either. How can you solve the problem(s) if you're not together?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I remember your story. Doesn't sound like much has changed. She's still not interested in you. If you separate, the burden should be on her (not on you) to find a new place to live since she's the one who wants a separation. 

Who knows what she plans to do while you're separated but I very seriously doubt it benefits you (separation usually doesn't).


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

JBH, I remember your story. I see you are still trying to please her and not being successful. I need to ask you a question. It's not to offend or be disparaging in any way. Just background info.

Did you help her get her green card? And is she now a citizen?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm separated and it has totally helped our marriage...but I think we are a unique case, and it normally could cause more problems than help.

On the other hand, if being in the same house feels lonely and defeating, how could it be worse to separate? Do you want to separate only because she is wanting to or do you want it for yourself, too?

It sounds like you don't have any kids so that would make it easier to separate.

Like I said it is working for me, but we also do have a strong intimate life and affection and are totally into each other. If we weren't I don't know how a separation could bring us closer together...but also if we weren't into each other, living together would be miserable. 

I don't know how you're going to work on getting her back into you, whether together or separate. Was she ever into you?


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## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

I would say your marriage is finished. She doesnt want you but I suppose needs your money. 
You have to tell her some hard facts or your sister has to of what marriage is really about.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> JBH, I remember your story. I see you are still trying to please her and not being successful. I need to ask you a question. It's not to offend or be disparaging in any way. Just background info.
> 
> Did you help her get her green card? And is she now a citizen?


@ afab too

She paid for her Green card herself. She actually makes more money than me. So, this is not one of those situations where a Filipina woman cons some gullible man into marrying her so she can get her green card, Trust me. I understand why people would think that, though.

Also, when you say I'm trying to please her, is this a bad thing? I know there is a thing called "caretaking" as described in NMMNG, but at this point, I don't know if that applies to me or not.

@ Faithful Wife.

Why did you guys get separated if you were totally into each other?

=====================================================


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## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

Well why do you think she stays by you.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

She doesn't love you. She wants to find a replacement for you, but keep you as a backup. Just in case.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

Sounds like she's looking on to the next guy.. unless she already found a potential one. You'll still have good days in that scenario, because she's still saving 10% of her energy for maintaining her Plan B (you).

Maybe you should check out the Standard Evidence post in the Infidelity forum and sniff around to see if the reason she suddenly is eager to have her 'alone time' is because she gets to talk to her new man.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

afab said:


> Well why do you think she stays by you.


Well, I think maybe she wants to do the "right" thing. Like I said before, our families and religions lean towards making our marriage work no matter what. She's Catholic, I'm Christian. I know she's talked to her parents about our difficulties and I imagine they encouraged her to try and make things work. AFAIK, her mother/father & relatives like me (I know her father does) and I like them a lot too---and my family LOVES her. 

When I actually spoke to her mother (months ago), she gave me similar advice as what my sister gave to me more recently..taking care of her, making sure I was spending quality time, being responsible, mature, helping her keep the house clean, etc. She also assured me that her daughter was great wife material (I.e. great at cooking, cleaning, etc) and if we got separated divorced, it would be my loss, not hers.

I'm pretty sure families on both sides want us to stay together, so I'm guessing it's out of obligation to our families/religions and trying to do the right thing. Maybe she still cares for me too, or loves me but isn't IN LOVE with me. 

Lastly, we both share an townhouse it would be difficult for one of us to pay while the other finds a new place before the lease expires. 

@ Faithful Wife.

Yes she was into me in the beginning of our Marriage. Maybe even more-so than I was into her, or perhaps it was a different kind of love. She tells me that she feels I was never "head over heels" in love with her, and that I'm not the kinda guy who "Would do ANYTHING" for her. I'm not exactly sure what she means by this. She's never given me any solid examples, but I do know she wishes I was more like some of these fictional TV show characters who do super-romantic things for their GF's like buying them a new car, or saying the perfect script to make the woman fall in love with them. Again, these are mostly from shows like Grey's Anatomy, Mistresses, etc. Sometimes I feel as if she's disappointed because I'm not more like Mr. McDreamy or one of those other characters who express their love in outlandish, exuberant ways--I could be wrong, though.

Regardless, whenever we discuss trying to make it work, though, she always says that she will probably never feel the same about us again...not the way she was "into me" at the beginning of our relationship.

Also, I don't think she would get into any relationships after our separation. She tells she's tired of how "complicated" relationships are and doesn't think she's really marriage material. She wants a break and seems like she just wants to be on her own for while.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Separation is just pretending to be divorced, like living together is pretending to be married. You're together or apart, but not officially.

It also sounds to me like she is done with your marriage. Wanting space or alone time usually means they have someone else they want to replace you with?


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

I don't think i would move to California with her, if divorce was coming up on the horizon ....


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I'd bet she would find herself in a relationship in no time. She is ripe to be played.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I'm back! It's been awhile since I posted on these forums, but I felt it was time I come back and hopefully can get some good advice that will either save my marriage or help me move on.
> 
> ...


I can only speak from personal experience: When I have acted with my husband the way your wife acts with you (tells you "it's okay, you can go gaming, I'm used to it now" and doesn't respond in a positive way when you try to embrace/touch her), it's because I'm so disappointed in him that I just don't want him near me. And I'm contemplating divorce so, why make it more painful by allowing him near me? She's at a point where she's actually pushing you away, because all attempts to change you to her liking have failed.

I think a separation can help if you're in a really bad situation and you use the time to change the reasons for your separation, so that those "reasons" no longer exist if you get back together. ie. for me it was our living situation and his verbal abuse...we did not get back together until those 2 things were completely resolved. The living situation is to my liking now and he knows he can't get away with verbally abusing me so he doesn't even go there. Other than that - if it's just general "disappointment" and her general unhappiness with the status quo, I don't know how helpful a separation would be for your marriage. Maybe you both will decide you're happier apart. In which case it's helpful for your self-discovery and happiness but not for your marriage.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I have read all your posts. It is sad to say the least. When I was in Iraq I had a soldier in counseling just like you. Your wife wants a man and she is married to a boy and you can't or won't see it.

What I have read from your first post to your last is a marriage that has gone from bad to worse.


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## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

Thanks for your reply.
I will be quite blunt. You have to get out of this marriage. She wont change. It may be against your religious principles but so is a marriage like this.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Why do you want to be with someone who does not care about you, is not into you, and does not want to touch you? 

GEt into IC and try to find your self esteem. It will take a while.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> I can only speak from personal experience: When I have acted with my husband the way your wife acts with you (tells you "it's okay, you can go gaming, I'm used to it now" and doesn't respond in a positive way when you try to embrace/touch her), it's because I'm so disappointed in him that I just don't want him near me. And I'm contemplating divorce so, why make it more painful by allowing him near me? She's at a point where she's actually pushing you away, because all attempts to change you to her liking have failed.
> 
> I think a separation can help if you're in a really bad situation and you use the time to change the reasons for your separation, so that those "reasons" no longer exist if you get back together. ie. for me it was our living situation and his verbal abuse...we did not get back together until those 2 things were completely resolved. The living situation is to my liking now and he knows he can't get away with verbally abusing me so he doesn't even go there. Other than that - if it's just general "disappointment" and her general unhappiness with the status quo, I don't know how helpful a separation would be for your marriage. Maybe you both will decide you're happier apart. In which case it's helpful for your self-discovery and happiness but not for your marriage.


Alright, Orange Pekoe, 

I think you may be on to something here. I honestly think you probably know or seem to know more about how she feels more than anyone else on this thread so far. I think I'm probably still disappointing her. Also, I think her own feelings about our relationship, as well as her relationships with other people disappoint her as well. She seems to feel like "people in here" (America) are weird or she's done something to upset them because there will be days where people at her work don't talk to her, and that makes her feel like she did something to offend them or there's something wrong with her. Again, she says she should be "used to it" because that how her husband is too. Also, I think she feels I still spend too much time in front of my computer/phone or whatever--even though she says it doesn't bother her anymore. So, maybe I need to just sit around and watch Grey's Anatomy and not be up in my room so much.

Also, @ Thorburn. You may be right as well. maybe I am still immature, still a boy. She does still tell me I need to be more manly. Sometimes she even says that I behave like a gay person, or she'll call certain behaviours "gay".


=================================================================================================

Lastly, to all those mentioned Divorce. 

Well, I must say a catastrophic turn of events occurred this weekend.

My wife came home from work on Friday night with a case of bad allergies. We went out to eat on Friday and then went straight home and since her nose was bothering her, she decided she wanted to stay home. I stayed home too..though, I was considering going out somewhere to play games, but thought it would probably be bad if I left her when she was feeling sick. Later on, she developed an earache as well, and felt a little warmer than usual, so she feared she was coming down with a fever. I did my best to take care of her while she lay on the couch watching TV, fetching her medicine and water, etc. On Sat we did a little shopping, household cleaning etc, then she started resting and taking her meds. She did tell me not to share food with her because she was afraid I would get sick. I presumed she just had allergies/ear-ache so it wasn't a big deal..also she wasn't complaining about feeling warmer than usual during Saturday.

Finally, on Sunday, she said she was feeling a lot better. Her Earache was mostly gone, she didn't have any fever and seemed fine as far as I could tell. We went to church than went to my Mom's house to pick up some garden veggies. As soon my Mom sees us, she asks for a hug (as is standard in our family). I hugged my mom, but my wife declined, saying she was "sick".

Now, I was a bit surprised by this and I suppose my initial reaction was a bit inappropriate. It went something like this..

"What? You're not sick! Come over and hug Mom. 

Nothing was said until we left her house and headed to the grocery store to pick up some steak.

Then she really let me have it.

She went on about how I must be "Mr. Perfect" because I know more her body feels than she does. About how I always argue/disagree with or undermine her. How I was always selfish and insensitive. How I made her look bad because it appeared as if she was lying and didn't want to hug my Mom. I tried to defend myself, but that just made me look more like I was arguing with her. I guess I didn't think that having allergies or an earache was "sick" enough to not want to hug someone. Maybe I did think she was looking for an excuse.

I guess I was a jerk for saying that too. Idk..

Regardless, as the conversation went on she said.. "I'm done! I'm tired of dealing with someone who's always selfish, insensitive, I don't want to dealing with this 10 yrs from now." She said she wanted me to find another place to live and she would probably be filing for Divorce after she returns from the Philippines this winter. She also told me to take her home and go to the grocery on my own because she didn't want to be around me.

So, I decided to leave the house. Went out to play cards with my friends to let her cooldown and just get away from the awkward situation--let my mind think about something else, other than the thought of he actually pulling the trigger on divorce. I actually felt more panic as the realization this is actually going to happen.

After a few hours, I come back and realize she's cooked dinner & our lunch tomorrow. I eat and ask her if I can get her anything. She declines and eats a little later. Then she asks me if I want to go to Dairy Queen for desert. I figure maybe she's cooling down now, so I say Yes and we grab some coupons and go. While were there, it feels like any other Sun night. 

Funny thing is, earlier this week, she decides at the last minute she wanted to go to Myrtle Beach. We've been trying to plan that, even though it's a long drive and we haven't made any reservations yet. So, while we're sitting there at DQ, she goes back to discussing the hotel prices, where we'll get reservations and all this Vacation stuff. 

After our fight, I honestly thought the whole thing would be off, but it's almost as if it never happened. 

So, Idk. Maybe I'm an idiot. I'm always second-guessing any decision I make--is it helping my marriage? making it worse? Should I change something? Is it even worth it?

Also, I'm really confused about her recent change in moods/general back and forth behavior.

Would love to hear some insight on this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

There are two books you need to read. No More Mr Nice Guy so you can see what a 'real man' as she says looks like. And His Needs Her Needs so you can see what a healthy marriage looks like.

And yes, in your case, I'd go for separation. With the understanding that it will probably end in divorce. But you never know - if she sees you going out and enjoying your new single life, she just may be more interested in you. Understand, though, that if you just go back to being a doormat/boring homebody, her disgust will return. You gotta ask yourself - what do you really want?


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

JukeboxHero said:


> Alright, Orange Pekoe,
> 
> I think you may be on to something here. I honestly think you probably know or seem to know more about how she feels more than anyone else on this thread so far. I think I'm probably still disappointing her. Also, I think her own feelings about our relationship, as well as her relationships with other people disappoint her as well. She seems to feel like "people in here" (America) are weird or she's done something to upset them because there will be days where people at her work don't talk to her, and that makes her feel like she did something to offend them or there's something wrong with her. Again, she says she should be "used to it" because that how her husband is too. Also, I think she feels I still spend too much time in front of my computer/phone or whatever--even though she says it doesn't bother her anymore. So, maybe I need to just sit around and watch Grey's Anatomy and not be up in my room so much.
> 
> ...


If she says she wants a divorce, she wants a divorce. Don't rug-sweep. Don't pretend it never happened. It's good that you gave it some time to cool off, but those feelings of "I don't want to deal with this 10 years from now" will not go away.

You should sit down with her and calmly talk about it. Ask her if she really wants a divorce. Ask her what you can change that will change her feelings about you.

I was married for about 10 months, when my husband suddenly developed a gaming addiction. One day he went out and bought a PS3, and it was like he no longer lived in the house. He'd come home from work and go straight to the basement to play games, until late into the night (2, sometimes 3 am). I went from being a wife who couldn't sleep without him beside me, to feeling like he doesn't care about me, to begging/pleading him to come to bed, to finally giving up. His addiction lasted a full 8 months. It did a lot of damage to our relationship. If your wife feels like your games come before your marriage, or before her, then get rid of them. Don't play games, but don't sit on the couch and watch Grey's Anatomy either. Go for a walk together. Cook together. Cycle together.

Just speaking from personal experience - the warm/cool attitude she's giving you is because she is confused. Sounds to me like she loves you but is simply not happy with you because she's disappointed. Why don't you go to marital counselling with her? Show her that you value what you have together.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> If she says she wants a divorce, she wants a divorce. Don't rug-sweep. Don't pretend it never happened. It's good that you gave it some time to cool off, but those feelings of "I don't want to deal with this 10 years from now" will not go away.
> 
> You should sit down with her and calmly talk about it. Ask her if she really wants a divorce. Ask her what you can change that will change her feelings about you.
> 
> ...


Thanks again, Orange Pekoe.

Wow I just can't imagine, 8 hrs everday? up until 2am? Holy crap, that's addiction. Did he help with anything? Eat Anything?

I hate to say it, but I've read some bits and pieces of your story and do see some parallels between me and your husband. I almost thought you might be wife for a minute. I hope that I'm not quite as bad, though. Usually when I play games, it was either once a week if I was going out somewhere, or if I was doing something at home, it would be for an hour or two after chores were done (or mostly done) and/or while we're watching TV. Sometimes I would check stuff on my computer during the last few hrs before bedtime (around 9-10am) and my wife would ask me to come to bed, but I never stayed up past 10:30-11am. 

Also, she always tells my voice is loud and to stop yelling, even when I feel I'm talking at a normal vocal level (for me). I basically have to talk in a very calm, soft voice or she'll think I'm too loud. 

As far as the vacation is concerned. Initially, there was some discussion about whether I should call off this Friday since this trip was a last minute decision and I didn't have enough time to get a vacation day approved.

She decided she was going to go Friday, with or without me. AT one point, she said she might even like to go alone, or with one of her friends. I told her that I was definitely going with her, and I won't have any issues calling off. 

Going on trips together is one of the few things we really enjoy doing together. I guess I'll let everyone know how it goes?


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> I'd bet she would find herself in a relationship in no time. She is ripe to be played.


Why do you say this, farsidejunky ?

ps how do you tag people in these threads?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

She is claiming to not want any part of a relationship while simultaneously claiming she wants to be swept off her feet.

This to me screams of someone who is vulnerable to being wooed off her feet by a smooth talking gentleman. It reeks of someone vulnerable to think with her loins first.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

JukeboxHero said:


> Thanks again, Orange Pekoe.
> 
> Wow I just can't imagine, 8 hrs everday? up until 2am? Holy crap, that's addiction. Did he help with anything? Eat Anything?
> 
> ...


At first I was going to write "no way, not 8 hours"...but you're right. His eyes would get bloodshot red, to the point it looked like he was on drugs. No he didn't help with chores and I'd have to ask him a few times before he'd eat dinner. It was horrible. And he'd tell me to "stop nagging" and that he knows best...

It was truly an addiction. Did a lot of damage to our relationship.

If you love her, sit down and talk with her, tell her how you feel. Ask how she feels. See if there is common ground (do you want to save the marriage). Take it from there...but don't rug-sweep. Rug sweeping just delays the inevitable.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> At first I was going to write "no way, not 8 hours"...but you're right. His eyes would get bloodshot red, to the point it looked like he was on drugs. No he didn't help with chores and I'd have to ask him a few times before he'd eat dinner. It was horrible. And he'd tell me to "stop nagging" and that he knows best...
> 
> It was truly an addiction. Did a lot of damage to our relationship.
> 
> If you love her, sit down and talk with her, tell her how you feel. Ask how she feels. See if there is common ground (do you want to save the marriage). Take it from there...but don't rug-sweep. Rug sweeping just delays the inevitable.


That's pretty ridiculous. 

Anyways, I did want to respond to your suggestion. 

First, I did attempt Marriage Counseling with her. I set up an appt which was thankfully free due to a program at my work. My wife did not go with me because she said "Nobody can fix our marriage except for us" and "Nobody can tell me how to feel" as if a MC would try to convince her to feel differently than she does. I'm not sure she understands therapy, but then again, neither did/do I. I went to the MC alone, and how I remember it...I told her the story of my relationship and all the scenarios that I've talked about in my other posts. She sprinkled some tidbits of info and recommendations, such as "See a Urologist for your ED issues" and "Women don't like sex as much when they're not feeling emotionally connected"...etc. Pretty basic stuff. But the big thing she seemed to continually say was, "Maybe you two aren't compatible, No-ones the "Bad Guy" here." and even though she didn't tell me what to do, she wanted me to consider a dissolution of marriage (divorce?) and starting over again.


She also wanted me to return after I had made my decision.


Also, I've had some talks with her this past weekend but I'm a bit too tired right now. Think I will post more tomorrow.

Also, @ thorburn

In what ways do you think I'm a Boy instead of Man? Not that I disagree with you. I'm sure there are many areas of improvement I need to focus on in order to be more mature. I would like to hear your thoughts.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I think you should listen to the counselor. You two really don't seem very compatible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tobin (Jun 24, 2015)

JukeboxHero said:


> Now, I was a bit surprised by this and I suppose my initial reaction was a bit inappropriate. It went something like this..
> 
> "What? You're not sick! Come over and hug Mom.


She was uncomfortable hugging your mom, for whatever reason. If you want her to continue to love, trust and respect you, then you need to do the same for her. By undermining her, basically calling her a LIAR in front of your mother, you're shattering any possibility of her feeling positively towards you. This is probably just one example of many that happen on a regular basis and are destroying your marriage.

You're sabotaging your marriage, and you seem to be vaguely aware that your actions are destructive, or as you put it, 'inappropriate' so do something about it before it's too late, if it isn't too late already.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

On top of everything you have said she may have already checked into the affair hotel.

Get His Needs Her Needs by Dr. Harley and work through it with your wife.

Just do it. She seems to be seeking more of a leader out of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LAwoman (Sep 8, 2015)

Sad to say, but your marriage is over. It happens. I know 2 men who's marriages ended within 2 years because their wives basically expressed that they are no longer sexually attracted to them. Your wife is not saying those exact words, per se, but she is showing you. Now, is it possible that she still has some warm feelings towards you, considers you a friend? Yes. But she does not want to f**k you— and that is something that is an essential requirement in a lasting, happy marriage. Perhaps more so than any other factor. And it's something that you can't manufacture. You either wanna f**k each other or you don't. And if it has come to this point, that one partner does not wanna f**k the other (or perhaps it's mutual; neither is sexually attracted and they're essentially in a platonic relationship, which is does most certainly occur in marriage), then it's time to accept that you are no longer in a happy marriage. Because, to me, a happy marriage and sex MUST go hand-in-hand. They just must. You can't be in a happy marriage with someone who you are not interested in having sex with. You can still have a "marriage," but it won't be a happy one. So you either spend the rest of your life in an unhappy marriage, or you get out, and live your happiest life, single, or seek out another sexually-fufilling relationship. I think you know what you choice you must make immediately.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Any form of separation, albeit long or short term, is nothing more than an innate request by a wayward spouse to have space in which to do "married things" with other people, all out of the sight of the partner that they are deceptively betraying!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Tobin said:


> She was uncomfortable hugging your mom, for whatever reason. If you want her to continue to love, trust and respect you, then you need to do the same for her. By undermining her, basically calling her a LIAR in front of your mother, you're shattering any possibility of her feeling positively towards you. This is probably just one example of many that happen on a regular basis and are destroying your marriage.
> 
> You're sabotaging your marriage, and you seem to be vaguely aware that your actions are destructive, or as you put it, 'inappropriate' so do something about it before it's too late, if it isn't too late already.


Yes, I realize that now. I felt really bad about it when she brought it up and realized how I made her feel. I think it was more or less a gut reaction because I was surprised when she said she was too sick, and I didn't consider it to be the type of "sick" that would prevent her from hugging my mother. 

There have also been times in the past where I would use her name as the reason for us not doing something with my family. I.e. My family would want us to go camping with them when we took a trip somewhere (My family and I like to camp, my wife used to, but doesn't like it anymore). I would say something like "Wife wants to stay in a hotel, so we're probably going to do that" and she would feel like I'm putting all of the "blame" on her. This is something I'm working on, but sometimes I don't like saying "WE" don't want to do something, when I actually do.

I understand this part of being team in marriage and I know it's something I need to improve upon.



ConanHub said:


> On top of everything you have said she may have already checked into the affair hotel.
> 
> Get His Needs Her Needs by Dr. Harley and work through it with your wife.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mr. Conan.

I've been thinking about getting that book since it was first suggested here on the forums. I think my sister even recommended it.

I'm 99% sure she's not having an affair. She says her parents raised her better than that and also that if she wanted have an affair, she would have done it long ago, when I was out playing games on a Friday night and she was alone at home. She always comes home straight from work and really only hangs with other female friends, or goes out to lunch her "Guys", who are a bunch of older married men that she likes to joke around with at work. 

On a related note, she did recently set up her own checking account due to some disputes over how we wanted to spend our money. I do not have passwords to her checking or any other account, nor her phone's PW. However, whenever I do catch a glance of her account activity (like when we're calculating budget expenses) I've never noticed anything suspicious.


Either way, I know I have a lot of work to do if I want to keep this marriage afloat.


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## Tobin (Jun 24, 2015)

JukeboxHero said:


> There have also been times in the past where I would use her name as the reason for us not doing something with my family. I.e. My family would want us to go camping with them when we took a trip somewhere (My family and I like to camp, my wife used to, but doesn't like it anymore). I would say something like "Wife wants to stay in a hotel, so we're probably going to do that" and she would feel like I'm putting all of the "blame" on her.


This is different. You're not going camping because your wife doesn't want to, and you're just being honest.

If wife has an issue with being "blamed" then that's something she's gotta own. What does she expect you to say, that both of you don't want to go when it's really just her? She expects you to lie to your own family? These are questions you could ask her.. gently. You respect her right to not want to camp but you do not intend to give your family any other reason but the truth. 

Sounds to me like she's just very difficult and there's no way you're going to make her happy especially given the state of your relationship at this time.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Thanks again everyone,

Just to clarify a few things. Currently, I believe her main reason for wanting to have her own place is that she's exhausted and stressed by having to clean up after me. I have a bad habit of throwing my clothes on the floor or on the fouton in my office/guest room when I get home. She likes to have everything put away as soon as possible. 

Some other things that stress her out.
-Leaving any light on for than 5 sec after you leave the room
-Anything left out (i.e. I'll get something out of the fridge, like milk, then walk away...even for a few min.
-Any form of clutter, even a minimal amounts (like mail on the table or something left on the countertop)
-Any dirty 

I'll be honest, this is something I need to work on. I try to keep things clean and pick-up after myself, but I don't always do it immediately and I do tend to leave things out or laying around (like clothes). Whenever she enters a room and sees anything out of place, she'll exclaim "It's quite a mess in here" and go on about how it's like living with a "7 yr old kid". Her whole family is pretty "OCD" (her words) when it comes to things being neat and tidy, and that's not something that comes easy to me. I feel that on a daily basis, this is the biggest stressor for her, and that compiled with her stress at work is why she's so unhappy and considering separation.

Some other things that do NOT bode well.

-On our recent road trip, we were listening to a Filipino Podcast called "Good times with MO" where Filipinos call into speak with this Talk-Show host who openly discusses relationship and sex issues in pretty blunt and crude manner (which is taboo in PH). She imagined what his response might be if she called in and told him our relationship issues, and concluded that he would probably say "Why the heck are you still with that guy? You could do way better than him" or something like that. I asked her why she felt that way and she responded by saying she could probably find someone that give her the attention she wants.

-Also, while on vacation, when were walking on the beach at night, I decided to be romantic. I took the Smirnoff bottle I was holding and wrote "My name", then "Her name" in the sand, then drew a heart between them. At first she said, "Eww, gross", but then she took pics with her phone, so I'm guessing she liked it a little. Then she erased her name because she said she didn't want anyone to know who she was or try to name their kid after her. 

-We sleep in separate beds/rooms most of the time. She says that our bed makes her back hurt and prefers to sleep on the sofa or futon. 

-At one point, in the past few months she wanted to change her last name back to her maiden name. In the past, I had admitted that I thought her last name sounded better (rolls of the tongue nice with her first name) and even thought it would be okay is she had kept it. However, with her wanting to change it back, I felt this would be another nail in the coffin or our relationship, so I felt pretty uncomfortable and asked her why. She mad up some reasons about having accounts in PH still under her old name and how it would be more of a hassle to change it back later. When I expressed concerns about how it might effect our relationship, she said it probably wouldn't make things any better if she kept my last name.
Eventually, she decided to keep my last name, but I think this was due to her mother not thinking it was a good idea, and her feeling like it was the right thing to do, even it wasn't that thing that made her happy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She doesn't see you as a romantic partner. And you Love Bust her too much by knowing what bothers her and not moving to address it.

What books have you read about relationships?


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

turnera said:


> She doesn't see you as a romantic partner. And you Love Bust her too much by knowing what bothers her and not moving to address it.
> 
> What books have you read about relationships?


Yes, you hit the nail on the head with that statement, Turnera!

As far as books are concerned, I've only read NMMNG and Verbal Judo. I actually didn't complete them, I got about 50-75% of the way through, and stopped reading them.

I was in the last few chapters of NMMNG. I haven't started the "breaking free" exercises yet, but I get the basic jist of it. I'm not sure how much of a nice guy I am, since my wife is always calling me selfish and says I put myself first.

I've come to the conclusion that I really need to buy "His needs/her needs" and I guess "Love Busters" as well, as everyone has been recommending I do since I started posting here.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Well, I have some more updates, and they aren't great.

Even though, we've been having fun and spending time together, my wife is still very unhappy about with our relationship, and I feel its on it's last leg.

We went running together today and I started cooking dinner when we she got home. After we ate, she told me that sometimes she didn't like me running with her because she felt pressured (to go faster?), partially because I started some chicken in the oven and then took it out so she was concerned about it getting cold.

Also, she went on to say that regardless of how many good things I do in our relationship, or whatever I try to do to fix it, she doesn't see the good things. Also, the harder I "push" to make things work, the more it annoys her. I'm not sure what all she considers "pushing" or trying to make it work. I told her I was trying to keep things more neat and tidy and pick-up after myself to make her life less stressful. She said those are just common adult and I shouldn't JUST be doing those because they bother her.

She went onto say, "Do you know what it's like to feel like you have nobody with you, that you're just alone--fighting to get through everyday" She said she felt that way because she never felt like I was there for her in the earlier stages of our relationship (especially because when she came her from the Philippines, she didn't have any friends--she was pretty dependent on me and didn't want to spend any time away from me) I was either physically going out with friends, or I was physically present, but I wasn't emotionally or mentally there with her. She felt I was too often at my computer, ipad or just doing thing in my "world" (i.e. my hobbies, friends, activities I had before I met her). She said she had to grow tougher, more independent and just find ways to make herself happy. She said she developed her own little world and suddenly I'm making a U-turn and colliding back into her world when I want to make things work (which isn't fair to her). She also mentioned that she didn't want to spend how many years of her life feeling miserable, and it wasn't fair to her that I just recently wanted to make things work. She also said perhaps we could both find people better suited for our respected selves and perhaps people that we had more in common with.

It left me feeling really heartbroken and sad. I feel like I really failed her as a husband. I didn't realize how much it hurt her before. I thought I could still take an occasional Friday night to go out and play cards with my friends or be at home with her but slip away for an hour or so to goof around on my computer while she was asleep or watching TV. I guess I didn't realize at the time that this was slowing chipping away at our relationship. She feels like I didn't care about our future together, and thus, even though she grew as a person, she didn't grow with me, and instead we grew apart.

So, I'm not sure what the next step is. Every time I think we might have a chance, or that the relationship it taking a small step in the right direction, she pulls out a conversation like this. While I certainly appreciate her openness and sharing how she feels, I'm not sure what to say in response. Should I say I agree with her and we should move on? Should I ask what her plans are now? Should I insist that we try to make it work? Should I give her alone time and just do my thing while she does hers?


Also, I'm conflicted within myself. I see that I've done her wrong and I probably wasn't as focused on building our relationship (at least not in the way she was hoping). On the same hand, I feel every man has/needs hobbies and time spent with male friends (like NMMNG says). Maybe it was more of the time I spent on my computer when I was home with her.

I'm also torn between wanting to give every possible effort to make things work, and moving on to hopefully find someone that hopefully will be more compatible with me and who feels a mutual attraction again. I'm just hoping I don't mess that up as well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

For the next step, I would advise that you buy His Needs Her Needs, and ask her to read it with you, a little each day. Read, and then talk about how each of you feel about what you're learning. There's a lot of important stuff in that book that could help you come closer. And, if that's not in the cards, it could help you two understand why you can't come closer, so easier to deal with.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Just to let everyone know. I should be receiving "His needs, her needs" in the mail today. I'm going to present the book to my wife and see what she says. I'll probably come back and give some updates on what she says.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

JukeboxHero said:


> So, I'm not sure what the next step is. Every time I think we might have a chance, or that the relationship it taking a small step in the right direction, she pulls out a conversation like this. While I certainly appreciate her openness and sharing how she feels, I'm not sure what to say in response.


Easy answer.

Point at the door.

Say "There's the door. Try not to let it hit your a$$ on the way out"

She doesn't respect you.
She is in or has reached the last stages of checking out.

You need to accept a few things here.
1) she's done, but she doesn't know how to leave.
2) She wants out, but doesn't know how to get out.

Time for you to let that butterfly go.

Tell this - I hear that you are done and want out.
Fine.
You have given me your ultimatum (you want out).
Here is mine. I will not be leaving. Since you want the separation, you will leave.
If you decide to stay, no more talk about separation and we work on this marriage and fix it. You will be committed to fixing whatever the issues are.
End of story and there will be no negotiation. 

She can take it or leave it, but you need to mean it when you say it.


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