# Found my old libido after 10 years, now how to I get my husband to trust me again?



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I am a new member and posted my story on another thread, but I didn't want to hijack it for this question. 

Here is my story if you are interested in the long version:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/1608660-post122.html

But, in short, I've been the LD spouse for about ten years (of a 20 year relationship) and thanks for this forum I've very suddenly found my old HD libido. Last week I found this website, spent a few hours reading and crying, then felt like a switch had been flipped. I used to feel like this all the time about my husband before we had kids and a house and stressful jobs and "grown up lives" and I have missed it so, so much. 

But it's been a long ten years and very, very hard on my husband, I now comprehend. More hurtful and lonely and isolating and sad than I could imagine. I want to make up for it, I want to have sexual intimacy, I want to be an equal and willing partner for my husband each and every time. And I want him to know how sorry I am for not "getting it" the many, many times he tried to tell me. 

I've made a start (and it's required no effort, I really, really WANT him). I've initiated sex a lot in the past week (he's not been willing every time), and I've found myself seeking him out for hugs and kisses and cuddling and conversation more than I have in ages. I've tried to explain to him what caused this sudden change from LD back to my old HD, but it was after sex, we were drowsy, and we've not spoken about it again. He's been sweet and mostly receptive, but I also get the sense that he's reserving judgment, holding back, waiting for this to pass. I don't think he believes me and of course I don't blame him one bit. Truth be told, I've terrified that this feeling with go away again--I keep coming back to these forums to read and be reminded. 

If you were in my husband's position, what would you think? I know for a fact that he has had a terrible time coping with our infrequent sex and now that I think back on it, I can see that so many behaviors that I chalked up to him being a jerk, or being stressed out, or being just unhappy with his life and refusing to do anything about it were all directly related to my refusal to address his emotional needs. I never, never dreamed that it was my disinterest in sex and rejection of sustained sexual intimacy that was basically ruining his hopes for a happy and fulfilling life. 

How should I proceed? Do I just keep waking the walk? Should I sit him down and explain all this at length, offer my profuse apologies, and try to own all the blame--or should I just let my actions continue to speak? 

He must be so utterly confused. I'm utterly confused. And I'm scared that after all these years he's to resentful and angry and unhappy to let me back in and trust me again.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

The longer my wifee isn't in the mood for sex, the more I get used to not wanting sex and when she finally does get it, too bad. Too many rejections, excuses, and never being there when I was in the mood, so I can't answer that one.........see, it backfires, goes around comes around......


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> The longer my wifee isn't in the mood for sex, the more I get used to not wanting sex and when she finally does get it, too bad. Too many rejections, excuses, and never being there when I was in the mood, so I can't answer that one.........see, it backfires, goes around comes around......


I hope my husband doesn't feel this way. He is a wonderful person, but I know people have their limits. I understand I will have to accept the fallout from my own shortcomings, but I do have hope. 

I wish you peace.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> I hope my husband doesn't feel this way. He is a wonderful person, but I know people have their limits. I understand I will have to accept the fallout from my own shortcomings, but I do have hope.
> 
> I wish you peace.


I hope he takes advantage of this oppurtunity for both of yalls sake.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

I would sit down with him (or better yet do it laying in bed after a nice romp initiated by you) and have a heartfelt talk. 

Tell him you did some soul searching. 

Tell him you did some reading to try and understand you and him better because you wanted to fix things and rekindle the relationship. 

Tell him you got caught up in you, not understanding what it meant or did to him. 

Tell him you're sorry. At this point I imagine he'll likely apologize for a few things as well. Keeping things in. Not knowing how to explain himself. Etc. 

Tell him you want to start fresh, and want him to join you, and that you'll try to never be that way again.

Were my W to say those things to me (especially the part about soul searching because you wanted to make things better, and trying to educate yourself), it would go a looonnngggg way with me. 

Then, follow through with it. You've learned that all men aren't pigs, and we aren't just looking for some place to "put it". That it is important for us as a way to connect. You know this now. 

Be ready for some continuing resentment and doubt for a while. Work through that and then be ready to have a happier, more loving and attentive man in your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

I think it is a normal reaction on your DH's part. My "revelation" is a couple of years old, and while my libido has ebbed and flowed some, its never gone back to the way it was. But I think he still fears it will. Its almost like he's built up a callous over that part of himself. That desire to protect himself will always be there now 
After sex last night I said jokingly, something along the lines of "you are probably having more sex than any guy you know". And he said "Good. It's finally my turn". That stung a bit, even though I know he didn't mean to. But it shows me his state of mind still. 

Time and love and persistance is all we can do, I guess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Remember first off:
I am 20. Turning 21 in June! 
So my hormones are probably to a degree that your husband's aren't. But I have read a few threads about this, to see what a marriage could hold for me. 
Si at least I am not completely uninformed. 



GettingIt said:


> If you were in my husband's position, what would you think? I know for a fact that he has had a terrible time coping with our infrequent sex and now that I think back on it, I can see that so many behaviors that I chalked up to him being a jerk, or being stressed out, or being just unhappy with his life and refusing to do anything about it were all directly related to my refusal to address his emotional needs. I never, never dreamed that it was my disinterest in sex and rejection of sustained sexual intimacy that was basically ruining his hopes for a happy and fulfilling life.
> 
> How should I proceed? Do I just keep waking the walk? Should I sit him down and explain all this at length, offer my profuse apologies, and try to own all the blame--or should I just let my actions continue to speak?
> 
> He must be so utterly confused. I'm utterly confused. And I'm scared that after all these years he's to resentful and angry and unhappy to let me back in and trust me again.


In your husband's position, I would feel like the biggest idiot in the world. I fell HARD for a bait and switch. And now I have to pay for it. 

Now, I assume you are trying to have intimacy again. And he is refusing. 

Are you surprised? What did you think would happen? 
You have treated your husband as nothing more than a walking sperm donor and a human ATM. 

But you made sure to sex him up a few times in the marriage to keep him from walking. 

I would look at you as a deceitful, cold, calculating woman who used sex to manipulate and control me into getting what you want. 

Did you read the "I took him for granted and now he is leaving," thread?
The OP treated her husband with indifference. And that is the opposite of love. Not hate, but indifference. 
He begged her for more love, begged her to go to counseling, even said he was leaving, and she just ignored it while she was off in lala land thinking it was a big joke. 
Until she found the email showing that he was leaving, and was following through on his threats. 
And NOW she wakes up. 
Now, why would her husband trust her again? The only reason she woke up is because the evidence of him leaving was staring her in the face. 

Sounds to me like you have treated your husband similarly. You were happy, didn't need sex, so why inconvenience yourself more than you have to? You are getting what you want, while only occasionally having to put out for him. 
And only now, after seeing the heartache of other men in sexless marriages do you realize the fault of your ways. 

I think you need to find out where your husband's mind really is. 
IF he has hit indifference, then I would say your marriage is dead. 10 years is a long time for what you did, and I would be surprised if he still has feelings for you after all that time. And if he can turn you down, then you are in big trouble. And if he has gotten to this point, you need to work your ass off to show this is a permanent change, and not just you trying to bait and switch him again. 
Because that is what he'll view this as. Another bait and switch to make sure he doesn't run off with someone else.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> In your husband's position, I would feel like the biggest idiot in the world. I fell HARD for a bait and switch. And now I have to pay for it.
> 
> Now, I assume you are trying to have intimacy again. And he is refusing.


No, he is being sweet and receptive . . . so far.



Broken at 20 said:


> Are you surprised? What did you think would happen?
> You have treated your husband as nothing more than a walking sperm donor and a human ATM.


No, I don't think I've treated him that way, and I don't think he feels that way, either. We had ten years of HD sex before we got married, had children, etc. Our lives changed dramatically and to expect that our sex life would not change would be unrealistic. Decisions about family, finances, etc. were always made together, usually harmoniously, so I don't think he felt like a sperm donor or ATM. 



Broken at 20 said:


> But you made sure to sex him up a few times in the marriage to keep him from walking.
> 
> I would look at you as a deceitful, cold, calculating woman who used sex to manipulate and control me into getting what you want.


I never had sex with him unless I desired him--well maybe once, but that was a disaster. I had needs that were not being met, too, but I didn't want him to go through the motions; I wanted him to WANT to meet those needs. So I didn't think he'd appreciate me faking it--in fact, he told me that it was a great fear of his, that I'd have sex with him just to get him off my back. 



Broken at 20 said:


> Did you read the "I took him for granted and now he is leaving," thread?
> The OP treated her husband with indifference. And that is the opposite of love. Not hate, but indifference.
> He begged her for more love, begged her to go to counseling, even said he was leaving, and she just ignored it while she was off in lala land thinking it was a big joke.
> Until she found the email showing that he was leaving, and was following through on his threats.
> ...


No, I'm new here, and have not had time to read many threads. Sounds horrible. I hope that isn't what is in store for my husband and me.



Broken at 20 said:


> Sounds to me like you have treated your husband similarly. You were happy, didn't need sex, so why inconvenience yourself more than you have to? You are getting what you want, while only occasionally having to put out for him.
> And only now, after seeing the heartache of other men in sexless marriages do you realize the fault of your ways.


I was torn about whether to share my story and ask for help for fear of this sort of response. But then I though: maybe I can help somebody who is suffering like my husband, who has a wife who really, honestly isn't "getting it." But you are right, it wasn't until after I came to TAL that I fully understood. What if more LD spouses came here and discovered what I did? What if there are relationships that can be helped? I believe we are on on this earth to learn and to share and to help our fellow humans when we can. I understand that I will be seen as cold and calculating and selfish by some, but my intent was never to cause my husband the pain that I now know I caused him. I want to make it right, and I hope it makes a difference for my husband from this day forward, even if I cannot change the past. 



Broken at 20 said:


> I think you need to find out where your husband's mind really is.
> IF he has hit indifference, then I would say your marriage is dead. 10 years is a long time for what you did, and I would be surprised if he still has feelings for you after all that time. And if he can turn you down, then you are in big trouble. And if he has gotten to this point, you need to work your ass off to show this is a permanent change, and not just you trying to bait and switch him again.
> Because that is what he'll view this as. Another bait and switch to make sure he doesn't run off with someone else.


I do want to find out where my husband's mind really is. That is why I started this thread--to get some advice and input. I know I am lucky to be married to this man and if our marriage has been ruined beyond repair then I will have to accept that. As I said before, however, I have much hope.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm assuming you rejected him fairly often or made yourself available. If so, then simply tell him that you will never reject his advances again. Then leave it up to him to "test" you. When you initiate, you take control, which may be a bit intimidating for him and could also be interpreted as "what is she angling for?". Cede control to him without fear of rejection. He'll come around on his own terms in his own time.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

donny64 said:


> I would sit down with him (or better yet do it laying in bed after a nice romp initiated by you) and have a heartfelt talk.
> 
> Tell him you did some soul searching.
> 
> ...


Thank you--I can't imagine a more perfect way for things to go. We have wonderful, meaningful talks when we are in bed, so I'm always tempted to talk to him after sex. But then I wonder if a more "formal" discussion and acknowledgment of my realization and what I want going forward is needed. Is it enough for me to say "sorry and I get it now" when we're all warm and fuzzy and then assume that is enough? I guess I'm wondering just how very clear I need to be. Should I go into detail about how I felt, and what I've discovered and how horrified I am? Should I disclose how my libido has literally come raging back--or is that going to make him feel like I'm just using him? Should I acknowledge the fact that he might reject my desire to improve our intimacy, and that he'd be within his rights? I don't think he's going to do that, but I don't want him to think I assume that everything is going to be all hunky dory now that I've come to understand something from strangers on line that he's been trying to tell me for years. 

I feel like it is the topic of sex became so complicated--and even toxic--in our marriage that now I don't know how to bring it up without dredging up some of the really, really hard times we've had. But I am going to try.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

pb76no said:


> I'm assuming you rejected him fairly often or made yourself available. If so, then simply tell him that you will never reject his advances again. Then leave it up to him to "test" you. When you initiate, you take control, which may be a bit intimidating for him and could also be interpreted as "what is she angling for?". Cede control to him without fear of rejection. He'll come around on his own terms in his own time.


Yes, I did. Part of the problem is that he got so used to rejection he hardly ever initiated any more. I had to be very, very clearly in the mood and willing to initiate if we were going to have sex. I don't know if he'll trust my promise enough to just start initiating again on his own. I know he feels tired, worn down, and broken on the whole issue. I desperately would like him to take control again, but I think I'm going to have to wait until he trusts me again . . . which leaves me in the driver's seat.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I would initiate often and let him ask you why when he is ready for a discussion. Actions speak louder than words. Don't overwhelm him with heavy explanations until he is ready for one.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

lovesherman said:


> I would initiate often and let him ask you why when he is ready for a discussion. Actions speak louder than words. Don't overwhelm him with heavy explanations until he is ready for one.


I guess I feel the need to say _something_--but perhaps that is more for me than for him. I'm fairly desperate to have him know that I really, truly didn't understand before, but that I get it now. That I would never have intentionally caused him the sort of pain that I now know I caused. I know words won't fix this, but I wonder if they can help him until we get to a better place with trust.

But I do talk too much and tend to over analyze. I'm very analytical when it comes to relationships and self awareness (I know, I know, I completely missed the boat on this one.)


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

Every time I see this thread title I read "dildo" instead of "libido"

Ahhhh....levity.

Carry on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If I were your husband, after 10 years of sex drought, I wouldn't feel much of anything, maybe a truckload or resentment. I'd accept the sex but there's no way I would believe it signified any lasting change. You've spent 10 years making yourself this man's tormentor and enemy. It'll take more than a little slap and tickle to get beyond that If he had spent the last 10 years punching you in the face, you would you believe his sudden sweetness? All those times you rolled over instead of taking care of your husband, you told him he wasn't worth 20 minutes of your time; that he was undesirable, unattractive, unappreciated, and above all, unloved. It'll take time to get over that.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Thoreau said:


> Every time I see this thread title I read "dildo" instead of "libido"
> 
> Ahhhh....levity.
> 
> ...


"Found my old dildo after ten years . . . "

I am dying here . . . like falling off my chair! :rofl:


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> If I were your husband, after 10 years of sex drought, I wouldn't feel much of anything, maybe a truckload or resentment. I'd accept the sex but there's no way I would believe it signified any lasting change. You've spent 10 years making yourself this man's tormentor and enemy. It'll take more than a little slap and tickle to get beyond that If he had spent the last 10 years punching you in the face, you would you believe his sudden sweetness? All those times you rolled over instead of taking care of your husband, you told him he wasn't worth 20 minutes of your time; that he was undesirable, unattractive, unappreciated, and above all, unloved. It'll take time to get over that.


You might be right, and I'd rather know his feelings than not. And although what he was feeling might be what you describe, I never, ever meant him to give him that message. For what it's worth. Which, I know, might not be much from his point of view. 

I also feel the need, at this point, to say that our marriage was working in so many other ways. Not perfectly, but we have been at a better place over the past five years than we were in the five years before that. He's made some changes for me and the family that, I think, enabled me to be able to make this change. And I'm hoping that this change will precipitate other positive changes. I love him and believe he still loves me, and so I do have hope.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You knew he wanted and needed sex. You knew he was unhappy without it. You had the capability of delivering but just refused. What message was he supposed to get out of that? That he was valued and important to you? If you were starving and he had the key to the pantry but couldn't be bothered for 10 years to feed you, would you get the idea he had any positive feelings for you?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> You knew he wanted and needed sex. You knew he was unhappy without it. You had the capability of delivering but just refused. What message was he supposed to get out of that? That he was valued and important to you? If you were starving and he had the key to the pantry but couldn't be bothered for 10 years to feed you, would you get the idea he had any positive feelings for you?


These are hard questions to answer, but I will try.

I knew he wanted sex, yes. And we had sex, just not as often as he wanted. I'm not sure I believed he _needed_ it, though. I suppose I thought that we had lopsided sex drives and that there wasn't much I could do about it. He was clear that he didn't want to have sex with me unless I really had the desire. It was my lack of desire that bothered him as much as the lack of sex. When he'd complain about it or try to explain how hard it was on him, I would listen, but not really comprehend. I figured we all go through life not getting some things we want. I did not appreciate the extent to which sex and my desire for sex with him was tied up in his self esteem and his feeling loved and emotionally fulfilled. 

I had the capability of delivering, yes. But not the desire to deliver, which is what he wanted and needed. *He did not want me to just have sex with him to make him happy. He wanted me to be happy to have sex with him. * I didn't know how to find that happiness until I came to understand what sex meant to him, that it was, indeed, essential to his happiness, just like food is essential for life. 

So while I do find your likening my withholding sex to his with holding food apt NOW, I would have dismissed it as over the top and dramatic just a week ago. 

What has helped me immensely in these forums are the posts where men lay their souls bare about their desire for intimacy with their wives. THAT has been the key to having my blinders torn off. All this time I was assuming that it was the sex he was after, the physical relief, and I felt . . . pressured and objectified and like who I was didn't really matter. But now when I think about how he makes love to me, the things he says to me, I realize that he really and truly was seeking a connection with ME. That has made a world of difference in how I view sex. As I put in in another post: I realized that sex was not something to be taken from me, but something that I had the power to GIVE. 

The subtlety might be lost on someone who is suffering in a sexually unsatisfying union, but it was crucial for me. And I think this is why I'm so desperate to try and explain to him the change that I feel. I want to be completely honest, because my lack of understanding was genuine (as hard as that is for you and others to believe). I would not have done this to my husband if I had understood more fundamentally what sex with me meant to him.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> These are hard questions to answer, but I will try.
> 
> I knew he wanted sex, yes. And we had sex, just not as often as he wanted. I'm not sure I believed he _needed_ it, though. I suppose I thought that we had lopsided sex drives and that there wasn't much I could do about it. He was clear that he didn't want to have sex with me unless I really had the desire. It was my lack of desire that bothered him as much as the lack of sex. When he'd complain about it or try to explain how hard it was on him, I would listen, but not really comprehend. I figured we all go through life not getting some things we want. I did not appreciate the extent to which sex and my desire for sex with him was tied up in his self esteem and his feeling loved and emotionally fulfilled.
> 
> ...


:iagree::smthumbup::smthumbup:

Madame, if you're an opera singer, I'll give you three rounds of applauses 


It's good for you and your dear husband that you finally came into this realization. Regaining trust is not an easy thing, but here in my country we have this concept of "taubatan nasuha", which could be translated into "sincere change of heart". If your change are sincere, and you make real efforts to make up for past wrongdoings, hopefully you will finally find happiness. 

My suggestion is this. Try to always looks pretty when your husband is around. Try to always looks happy when at his presence. Hug him when he's getting back home. Be warm, gentle and talkative, but try to listen more than talking when you're having a conversation with him. Eventually he will be back into initiating mode, hopefully. I wish you good luck!


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I guess I feel the need to say _something_--but perhaps that is more for me than for him. I'm fairly desperate to have him know that I really, truly didn't understand before, but that I get it now. That I would never have intentionally caused him the sort of pain that I now know I caused. I know words won't fix this, but I wonder if they can help him until we get to a better place with trust.
> 
> But I do talk too much and tend to over analyze. I'm very analytical when it comes to relationships and self awareness (I know, I know, I completely missed the boat on this one.)


I think the words won't make it "all better" but it will help him to understand you've put a lot of thought into this, are remourseful, and that you genuinely want to do better. 

Without that, were it me, I'd just think you were going through a hormonal change, and were doing it just for you. If he feels that, he'll be resentful and may stay shut down out of that resentment and wondering when the next hormonal shift will put him right back into "no sex land".

He could get pretty confused, and even think you're cheating. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Getting it, I believe you do "get it". I went through years of sex drought, too, up to six months with absolutely zero. It wasn't the sex I missed the most. Not only was sex withheld but pretty much all other manifestations of intimacy, tenderness, and affection. Guys communicate through action, so action is how he speaks his love and that's how he hears it. As is true with anyone, whenever one's behavior doesn't match their words, we all have sense enough to know the words are lies and the behavior is the truth. The only way you could possibly understand what your husband went through would be if you were a man in love and your lover essentially denied you for the same period of time. 
Your husband has been made to feel devalued a long time (intentionally or not). Make him feel valued. Again, guys communicate with action. We don't naturally sit around discussing our feelings. I feel valued when my wife cooks or when she brings me a cup of coffee or sits on my lap. I feel valued when she brags on me to other people, or when she greets me at the door with a smile and a kiss. As corny as it sounds, I have to wear these black T shirts under my body armor at work. She does something special to them in the laundry and manages to make them smell really nice. It's her going out of her way to do something nice just for me. She could talk for hours and not say as much as when she brings me a cup of coffee and gives me a kiss. Guys are visual creatures and we're natural horn dogs. Getting a coke machine to dispense a drink would be more challenging to my wife than getting me interested in having sex. After 20 years, you know every button that man ever had and exactly how to turn them on.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Op, you do not mention how old you are. I wouldn't dream of asking a lady how old she is but you mention a 20 year relationship.

Unless you met your hubby very young a 20 year relationship would put you in your 40's most likely.

What you may be experiencing may be only a little to do with reading threads on here. There is a well observed change in some women where they experience a sexual surge, sometimes almost overwhelming when they reach their 40's. Reading the threads may just have kick started your surge. Check out SimplyAmorous's thread she has a few posts where she has related how her libido went through the roof at one point.

You might also find some residual resentment from your husband. Sort of "where were you when I was 35 and I could make love all night every night?" "Now I'm older and can't perform as well you want me?"

It's only been a week, give the poor chap a chance. He is probably totally bemused and not sure about what is happening. As others have suggested give him a little time to talk about how you've changed. Just bonk him stupid any chance you get.

He may have turned to masturbation and porn during the lean years. If this is the case it is possible that his performance may be affected although this is not true for all men.

Good luck, enjoy the rest of your life pleasuring your husband and being pleasured by him.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> Getting it, I believe you do "get it". I went through years of sex drought, too, up to six months with absolutely zero. It wasn't the sex I missed the most. Not only was sex withheld but pretty much all other manifestations of intimacy, tenderness, and affection. Guys communicate through action, so action is how he speaks his love and that's how he hears it. As is true with anyone, whenever one's behavior doesn't match their words, we all have sense enough to know the words are lies and the behavior is the truth. The only way you could possibly understand what your husband went through would be if you were a man in love and your lover essentially denied you for the same period of time.
> Your husband has been made to feel devalued a long time (intentionally or not). Make him feel valued. Again, guys communicate with action. We don't naturally sit around discussing our feelings. I feel valued when my wife cooks or when she brings me a cup of coffee or sits on my lap. I feel valued when she brags on me to other people, or when she greets me at the door with a smile and a kiss. As corny as it sounds, I have to wear these black T shirts under my body armor at work. She does something special to them in the laundry and manages to make them smell really nice. It's her going out of her way to do something nice just for me. She could talk for hours and not say as much as when she brings me a cup of coffee and gives me a kiss. Guys are visual creatures and we're natural horn dogs. Getting a coke machine to dispense a drink would be more challenging to my wife than getting me interested in having sex. After 20 years, you know every button that man ever had and exactly how to turn them on.


Thank you. This was really, really helpful. I read it three times because it sounded so . . . honest. A question: Do you tell your wife about how the coffee and the bragging on you and clean shirts make you feel? I'm wondering because I think women do communicate more with words, and I think, as a wife, I'd love hearing about the little things I do, aside from sex, that make my husband feel loved and valued.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> Op, you do not mention how old you are. I wouldn't dream of asking a lady how old she is but you mention a 20 year relationship.
> 
> Unless you met your hubby very young a 20 year relationship would put you in your 40's most likely.
> 
> ...


I'm 43 (but still think of myself as 28 , and I've already discussed the possibility of hormonal change with SA and others on another thread. I suppose that could be a part of it, but I sort of hope not. It's not that I'd turn down my change if I found out it was hormonal, but I'd far rather think that I've discovered something very useful and profound about myself, my husband, and my marriage, and that this knowledge is an opportunity to vastly improve my husband's happiness. I don't want it to be hormonal because, as you mentioned, that could fluctuate again. But there is another reason I'm uneasy about it being hormonal: how could I ask my husband to fulfill my sudden needs when I neglected his for so long? Besides, what I've been experiencing over he past week has been overwhelmingly emotional in nature. I really, really feel like I've learned something that had been totally eluding me for years. As you say, perhaps hormones made me more receptive to the change. As for his age . . . the man never slows down between the sheets. He is a better lover than he ever was, even when we were having sex every day. Here's to hoping he's not going change to any time soon.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GettingIt said:


> I guess I feel the need to say _something_--but perhaps that is more for me than for him.* I'm fairly desperate to have him know that I really, truly didn't understand before, but that I get it now. That I would never have intentionally caused him the sort of pain that I now know I caused*. I know words won't fix this, but I wonder if they can help him until we get to a better place with trust.


When this deep realization HIT me....the height of those feelings took me my storm...it was my opening up about our sexual past...all things taboo suddenly were FREE FLOWING .... I couldn't stop talking...it came effortlessly.... also trickled.... due to my digging was his slow growing resentment (hidden) over wanting more sex..... my realizing how Repression hindered / caged me over the years... MY thread here >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...sets-collide-sexually-repressed-awakened.html

When I came out of this, it was like a torrential downpour, a Niagra Falls, there was NO way I couldn't express my feelings...my regret, my want ....how sad / even angry I was at myself for not understanding....How badly I wanted him NOW...all of him, every day, 3 times a day.. Geeze....what a lousy trick God plays on us to have men be in their Prime in their early 20's and women in their early 40'[email protected]#$%


He told me he'd wake up with an erection many mornings and just want it to go away.. like it was a scourge, I cried before him, buried my face in his chest......

Just thinking about what COULD HAVE BEEN all those yrs....although still GOOD, we were never near sexless.. he just wanted MORE & didn't rock the boat....men at work saying all women hated sex, he bought into it -instead of reviving my libido with creativity - he was always so quiet at well... could have flirted with me more....while I was off --the brain occupied on our kids... projects. 

My husband ate up my "'expressing"....this made him feel overwhelmingly loved... his forgiveness was there before I ever shed a tear.....He's just that way... 

I also wrote him an Erotic letter pouring out my  to all of this...where we came from, where I am, where we are going....he is my heart & soul.. mush & eroticism colliding...I read that to him face to face... 

Then my emotions fluctuated the other way -almost  for his not talking to me about his needs/ his cravings or coming after me - the way I was HIM during my high drive euphoria.... I was turning up the heat , knocking myself out (and he loved it !)...but WHY oh WHY...didn't HE do that [email protected]#$%^ He was very passive in our past...more so than the average man...this is why this is BOTH our faults...(and he would agree)... 

Unlike you GettingIt, I never felt objectified or pressured by my husband (Heck I WISH!)...I always felt the emotional connection flowing like a river when we were together.......no piece of heaven on earth could be sweeter than those shared orgasms - even if I was sexually shy & wanted a sheet over us....with the lights dim. 

My husband sounds very similar to yours though in NEEDING your desire... or it was hollow for him. Mine is a PLEASER.

My vote is to be heartfully honest in how you feel , express it as it flows... or write a letter like myself, get the words just so... and read it to him face to face.. .then touch this man, give yourself to him - show your passion & enthusiasm ...never let it go....

Make these new memories.



> I don't want it to be hormonal because, as you mentioned, that could fluctuate again.


 I look at this very differently than yourself..... so not to worry.....as I have lived it.......

MY HIGH drive phase only lasted a total of 8 months... I needed 0 forplay, wanted it 3 times a day, thought I had a sex addiction... crazy time! Once this subsided... we still remained on this mountain of emotionally connected WANT of each other... NOW we start out purely because we crave the emotional ... but this leads to the hormonal... that was 4 yrs ago... we have nearly as much sex NOW as we did at my highest high.

It's been a life altering experience for me, so much I think I could write a darn book about it.. very passionate about it.. so DO NOT fret over the hormonal.. .just learn it's lessons ...and forever be changed...


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## Itookhimforgranted (Apr 2, 2013)

You don’t know how much I envy you right now. Your story is so similar to mine I also neglected my husband’s needs without even knowing it. Just like you I was so caught being a mother I totally forgot about making sure he was happy and making sure his needs were being met. My husband unlike yours didn't want to live in a sex marriage anymore. So after awhile he decides he has enough and starts planning his exit. He tried but I was never willing to meet him half way so after 3 years of living in a sex marriage I found a few of his emails of what he was planning on moving out. He told me a few times he was thinking of moving out but me living in lala land never believed him. Their a lot more but that’s not point. The point you did every thing I should have done but I didn't. You were able to wake up unlike me. Just like you I ignored my husband now he’s leaving but you have a chance to make it right make sure he know every day how grateful you are for having him and you love him. I do hope you and your husband are able to work out your problems and be grateful he stayed for that long and didn't leave. I wish you the best for you and your husband. 

Ps. I so want my husband now too. I find myself thinking about the things we used to do and all the great sex we had. I so wish I was you


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> It's been a life altering experience for me, so much I think I could write a darn book about it.. very passionate about it.. so DO NOT fret over the hormonal.. .just learn it's lessons ...and forever be changed...


You give me much hope, SA. Thank you. I will be reading more of your posts when I have time, but my husband is due home any minute from a two-day trip. Looking forward to a long night of working toward getting things back on track.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Itookhimforgranted said:


> You don’t know how much I envy you right now. Your story is so similar to mine I also neglected my husband’s needs without even knowing it. Just like you I was so caught being a mother I totally forgot about making sure he was happy and making sure his needs were being met. My husband unlike yours didn't want to live in a sex marriage anymore. So after awhile he decides he has enough and starts planning his exit. He tried but I was never willing to meet him half way so after 3 years of living in a sex marriage I found a few of his emails of what he was planning on moving out. He told me a few times he was thinking of moving out but me living in lala land never believed him. Their a lot more but that’s not point. The point you did every thing I should have done but I didn't. You were able to wake up unlike me. Just like you I ignored my husband now he’s leaving but you have a chance to make it right make sure he know every day how grateful you are for having him and you love him. I do hope you and your husband are able to work out your problems and be grateful he stayed for that long and didn't leave. I wish you the best for you and your husband.
> 
> Ps. I so want my husband now too. I find myself thinking about the things we used to do and all the great sex we had. I so wish I was you


Yes, I appreciate how lucky I am to have this opportunity, and I still have so much hope. My husband, I am realizing more and more, is an exceptional human being. I'm very sorry for your pain, and I hope that you can find peace. Be kind to yourself; we all have a journey on this earth, and you must keep your eyes and heart open for where you will travel next.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Should I sit him down and explain all this at length, offer my profuse apologies, and try to own all the blame--or should I just let my actions continue to speak?


I was in your husband's shoes, and that would have sure helped me. Things have gotten better for us, both of us working on multiple issues we had. 

But the one thing she will not do is just that: offer any form of apology. She'll tell me "I already did." 

Hmm, I only remember you saying that you already did many times, but don't remember the actual apology. I she's not comfortable enough with herself to do it.

I've done crappy things too, and I've never held back explaining at deep length how much I'm filled with regret for some things I've done, why I feel that way and why I don't ever want to do it again.

The lack of such contriteness certainly lengthened the time I was full of resentment. I still don't fully trust either. We're pretty happy, but I do have a lack of trust.

One thing that sure would be good to hear is about how she never wants to go back.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

donny64 said:


> Without that, were it me, I'd just think you were going through a hormonal change, and were doing it just for you. If he feels that, he'll be resentful and may stay shut down out of that resentment and wondering when the next hormonal shift will put him right back into "no sex land"


:iagree:

BINGO!!!!

That's my fear exactly. Things are better both because of our improved state of marriage and no doubt the hormonal shift of pre-menopause. 

She's not getting told no now. EVER. I'm meeting every one of her desires right now. If she were to go back, we're done. Absolutely done. The sheer unfairness of treating me that way again when I got past my resentment and didn't do it back to her would be too much.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

GettingIt said:


> Thank you. This was really, really helpful. I read it three times because it sounded so . . . honest. A question: Do you tell your wife about how the coffee and the bragging on you and clean shirts make you feel? I'm wondering because I think women do communicate more with words, and I think, as a wife, I'd love hearing about the little things I do, aside from sex, that make my husband feel loved and valued.


I really do make a point to verbally express appreciation. I may do so too much. For my wife, though, what makes her feel loved is pampering and cuddling. It's not the manliest thing in the world but she likes it when I brush her hair or take her nail polish off. I could give her compliments or "thanks" all day but a few minutes of hair brushing is what makes her feel loved.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Getting it, I believe you do "get it". I went through years of sex drought, too, up to six months with absolutely zero. It wasn't the sex I missed the most. Not only was sex withheld but pretty much all other manifestations of intimacy, tenderness, and affection. Guys communicate through action, so action is how he speaks his love and that's how he hears it. As is true with anyone, whenever one's behavior doesn't match their words, we all have sense enough to know the words are lies and the behavior is the truth. The only way you could possibly understand what your husband went through would be if you were a man in love and your lover essentially denied you for the same period of time.
> Your husband has been made to feel devalued a long time (intentionally or not). Make him feel valued. Again, guys communicate with action. We don't naturally sit around discussing our feelings. I feel valued when my wife cooks or when she brings me a cup of coffee or sits on my lap. I feel valued when she brags on me to other people, or when she greets me at the door with a smile and a kiss. As corny as it sounds, I have to wear these black T shirts under my body armor at work. She does something special to them in the laundry and manages to make them smell really nice. It's her going out of her way to do something nice just for me. She could talk for hours and not say as much as when she brings me a cup of coffee and gives me a kiss. Guys are visual creatures and we're natural horn dogs. Getting a coke machine to dispense a drink would be more challenging to my wife than getting me interested in having sex. After 20 years, you know every button that man ever had and exactly how to turn them on.


Couldn't agree more!!!! I don't want to sit around discussing things for hours on end. My wife may need that....I don't. A hug....a unexpected kiss.....coming home to her looking great it makes a world of difference. I appreciate that the OP is ready to change and wants that fire back. But until your on the receiving end of a sexless marriage you might not get it. Resentment builds and its hard to just turn it off cause you spouse now gets it. Its almost as if you trained a man to except it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> You give me much hope, SA. Thank you. I will be reading more of your posts when I have time, but my husband is due home any minute from a two-day trip. Looking forward to a long night of working toward getting things back on track.


Her perspective is excellent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GettingIt said:


> You give me much hope, SA. Thank you. I will be reading more of your posts when I have time, but my husband is due home any minute from a two-day trip. Looking forward to a long night of working toward getting things back on track.


With your age, you are surely experiencing a height in the hormonal to SOME DEGREE... I am sure this various from women to woman. 

I am ever so THANKFUL I had this experience...it's been the greatest thing that's ever happened to me ....*to US*... even IF it was a little tormenting at the time... I could hardly sleep, wanting to JUMP him /couldn't keep my hands off of him - I was a real PEST [email protected]#$ 

Made me feel so young/ vibrant...delicious, we were acting like Love struck Teens...I lived to SPICE & bring him to his knees....was taking Romantic Vacations, running away from the kids... never felt so ALIVE unto myself.... suddenly..there was not an inhibited cell in my body ...in regards to my husband. 
And I SOOOOO "Get" MEN now...at least the ones who are feeling EMOTIONAL in







...because I wanted that attachment fiercely along with it's release...

Dare I say though... in the midst of that - I remember feeling - I was SO ....that if I was not married & didn't have a man to play with, I think I would have gotten myself in a world of trouble ....that CRAVING was just SO intense...and I didn't want to lay it down, didn't even seem I could... like the Philandering Playboy...My new language was flirting.....hate to say it...but I think I could have screwed around with no strings attached... COUGAR written all over that [email protected]#$% 

And just let me say...this is so far against my beliefs & morals... that scared me ....*it's like my MIND was hi-jacked*....but I kept it ALL at home, we talked & sexed our way through it all...his way of dealing with me - was ...just Amazing...he proved his love 100 times over... . 

He would not allow me to suffer, he had no revenge for "payback"...
I joked about it saying I deserved this ...

Looking back this is funny...when he couldn't keep up, I didn't waste any time, I sent him to the Endocrinologist to get his Testosterone checked (our LUST hormone)... learned he was on the lower side of normal - but still "normal"... this worried me fr a time....and God Love him, I bought a few toys and he told me to STILL COME TO Him, to put those away. (Music to my ears, didn't want them anyway) 

Even caused him some *Performance Pressure*...learned "Sensate Focus" exercises to overcome that....we waded through it all together (while thanking God we live in the day of the little blue pill !)

I also started wanting him to be more Aggressive (this could happen ).... we'd had some fights over this....some were awfully :rofl: ....Good times... a lot of make up sex.... he is just not that type...he is the sensual "Making Love" man....I never cared for the 1st 19 yrs - crazy what hormones will do.

Insightful book on how these things affect us, our life passages >>

The Alchemy of Love and Lust: 

So yeah... the hormonal shift in Mid Life...what a living TRIP... PORN suddenly became ELECTRIC ....if he had a problem with it, I think I would have knocked his head off ....we rented it for a time... (frowned on it before - except Hot R Rated scenes- always loved those)... 



Anyway... here is 2 threads from other women who experienced this Heightened phase... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/43267-i-cant-stop-thinking-about-sex.html

This woman's story >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/19144-help-i-am-freaking-crazy.html .......She did A LOT of rejecting in her past... her hormonal surge was due to synthetic hormones at age 48 (??)... while her husband's libido was slowly drying up....he needed his own Test treatment.. 

How sad for this realization to hit women so much later in life... *it again is such a CRUEL THING for our husbands.*...this shouldn't be... we need to inform our daughters / young women to not neglect their husbands in their youth. I feel so strongly about this... but it remains, if the woman does not feel "this antsy" craving...with this intensity that I speak.....how do you get through.. I know in my past, had he neglected me - I would have felt it -cause I did need it like a GUY... every so many days... or I'd have to take matters into my own hands....back then every hot steamy sex scene, I had to have it, if I read a steamy romance, I would be chasing him down...it was THERE, I just needed to revive it more....He was ALWAYS at my beck & call ...so we tend to take these things for granted.. .us women. 
...
I believe in all of us... the erotic is lurking... it starts in between our ears...even Sex Therapists will say this!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I simply must add this to your thread...for INSPIRATION to all women who are in your shoes.... 

It's funny, I found this "write up" on a different forum -the words HIT me -like ...."This is IT, this is the way it was meant to be... capturing the spirit of us as LOVERS to our men"....

So I copied this like 6 times, threw it in some of my sex books .... then found TAM shortly after...and recognized a very similar writing style from another poster here... and darned if it wasn't HER WRITING... so I found the author like a needle in a haystack here at TAM... this woman is in her late 60's early 70's...this writing was AFTER menopause so this spirit of entangled attachment/ Love of sex & Desire never needs to die...

Compliments of *ThreeTimesALady* >>> 



> *Sex is* desiring him every time you look at him. Needing him to fill that wonderful yearning deep inside you that needs filling & to die for.* Sex is *having breasts that ached to be touched & loved & you can not live without it. *Sex is* waking him up in the middle of the night as you need him & want him & then you find that he wants you just as much & you make love for an hour & get up & have coffee & wonder where the years have gone. *Sex is* finding the thrill after years of a man that can still make you scream & turn you to mush. *Sex is* turning him into a crazy man who wants you more than his own life.
> 
> Now. *Love is *being able to see some fault in your lover but shutting your mouth for the good of a marriage. *Love is* having to give & take in a marriage. Learning where to stop an argument when it is not important to win. Winning sometimes can be losing. *Love is* being able to find in that precious other the boy in the man that you fell in love when you 1st married. *Love is* being able to go to the sexiest side of you & turn that man into mush after all these years. *Love is *being able to hear from your lover that if you die first he will follow you as he cannot live without you .* Love is* the sunshine in the morning when it is cloudy out but seeing him next to you makes your world.
> 
> *Love is* being able to say screwing & not being embarrassed plus any other really dirty word in the bedroom as he loves it. The dirtier the better as we all know that ladies do not talk dirty with those wonderful words but we also know as ladies that when we enter our bedroom to our precious that we leave the lady at the door. We then turn into his sex siren. As hot & as sensual as can be. And then we all know that when we leave that bedroom we again pick up the lady. All us ladies must have the two faces of Eve. This makes for a very very fullfilling marriage, full of intimacy and Love. A man would never stray if he had this.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I will just comment from the other side... if my wife had the revelation you had things would be better, more balanced...

However as a man and totally depraved husband you never forget, my wife is less in my eyes than before. I love her but the lack of any movement over years speaks volumes.

I will always look at this period of our marriage as a waste of some of my best years. I will always look at my wife a less than before until I die.

You "forgive" someone when after you discuss something (multiple times) they change in a timely fashion. Not when their hormones kick in ten years later.
There is no guarantee your new found libido will last.
There is a guarantee all those sexless years will.
I take the cards I'm dealt... I used to not worry about my marriage or sexlife...thats long gone my wife's withholding sex ensured it.

I will echo what a previous post said about being trained to accept it.

Its true in a similar way to a POW dealing with his situation.

Some die, some are released... all are changed and sleep with one eye open until they die.

You OP are not a man.. you have no idea.
I'm glad for your husbands sake you found your libido again.

But don't think for a single moment that changes everything... things will be different in the way he sees you until he fulfills his commitment of the marriage at death. You selfishly stole years from his life...and broke your vows. He stayed by you..that speaks volumes.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife has very severe health problems that mean we very rarely have sex.

I know this is due to her being in pain 24/7 but the rejections still hurt a bit. So eventually I gave up asking.

When she is pain free or pain low she asks for sex. If I an thinking of saying "no" this doesn't get acted on as even looking at her gets me fired up!
Then she wants it as many times as possible before the pain kicks in again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

So, was it just buried at the bottom of the toybox? Lost in a drawer? Perhaps in the glove compartment? 

Damnit.....I read "dildo" again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Thoreau said:


> So, was it just buried at the bottom of the toybox? Lost in a drawer? Perhaps in the glove compartment?
> 
> Damnit.....I read "dildo" again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It was under a clutter of parenthood, job stress, and misplaced priorities.


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

I still applaud you for being brave enough to post this. There is hope for dudes out there like me, and several others. As I mentioned in your other thread, it was seven years for me. My wife "would" but didn't want to do it. She told me on several occasions that she could go the rest of her life without it. It wasn't just a lack of sex, it was the whole nine yards: no kissing; no hugging; no flirting; and no making me feel loved. She is slowly learning that she's not just a hole I'd like to plug. It means more than just that. Your husband does have every right to be guarded. I know I certainly am. My wife has started to come around, but it is still too early to tell if it's legit. She has definitely shown more interest in me in the last few months than she had in the previous seven years. I concur with larry.gray about it helping the husband to know the depths of your sorrow about the sorrow you caused him. Just be sure that if you start getting LD again, seek help. My wife made little attempt (visibly) to turn her LD around. I begged and pleaded, whined and pouted. She turned further away from me because of it. Thus began the vicious cycle. Good luck!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> I was in your husband's shoes, and that would have sure helped me. Things have gotten better for us, both of us working on multiple issues we had.
> 
> But the one thing she will not do is just that: offer any form of apology. She'll tell me "I already did."
> 
> ...


Not saying "I'm sorry" has been one of the issues we struggled with, too. I think it's not an uncommon one. We each accused the other person of not saying it enough, and stop saying it in retaliation, and ended up in a stand off. It was something I worked on when I went to therapy (my husband wouldn't go, so I went alone.) He worked on it, too, and it has been one of the many successes of our marriage. 

I told my husband that I was deeply sorry for the pain I caused him. I spoke about it at length and took full responsibility, even though I hadn't truly understood for years what he had been going through. I believe I reached him, and it was an indescribably, incredibly intimate moment: perhaps more so than I've ever felt with him before. 

I am truly and deeply remorseful for the pain he has been in. I think many men suffer much, much worse. We'd had fairly regular sex over the past 10 (2-5 x a month I'd guess was the range), but an emotional barrier had been blocking the true intimacy we'd felt for the first 10 years of our relationship. However, I feel so grateful that this is happening now, and not in another 10 years, by which time my husband might have been beyond recall, as several men on this forum have described themselves.


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

I swear, if you were a decade or so younger, you would BE my wife. Were you ever on birth control?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

stevehowefan said:


> I swear, if you were a decade or so younger, you would BE my wife. Were you ever on birth control?


Yes, mostly in my 20's, not much in my 30's, and then from about age 39-42. I've been off it for about a year due to a health concern, but if I can get cleared by a hematologist I'll go back on it. Love not bleeding. 

I never found that being on BC resulted in a discernible difference in my drive, but i think the level of hormone varies from one type of BC pill to the next. I was usually on very low dosage. 

Why do you ask? Do you suspect that BC pills have affected your wife's drive? I'm curious--what it is about me or my story that reminds you of your wife?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> I really do make a point to verbally express appreciation. I may do so too much. For my wife, though, what makes her feel loved is pampering and cuddling. It's not the manliest thing in the world but she likes it when I brush her hair or take her nail polish off. I could give her compliments or "thanks" all day but a few minutes of hair brushing is what makes her feel loved.


I told my husband about this post. (We have been talking a lot since last evening and it's been really, really good.)

I told him about it because I'd forgotten that he used to comb my hair and shave my legs and wash my hair. I so, so want him to do those things again. He wants to, too. Women like to see manliness put aside sometimes in favor of tenderness. At least I do.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GettingIt said:


> I never found that being on BC resulted in a discernible difference in my drive, but i think the level of hormone varies from one type of BC pill to the next. I was usually on very low dosage.
> 
> Why do you ask? Do you suspect that BC pills have affected your wife's drive? I'm curious--what it is about me or my story that reminds you of your wife?



For MANY women hormonal Birth control supresses their drive, wish I could find the thread where this wife got off of it and ... she went CRAZY for sex suddenly.. she was going on & on how she had no idea what she was missing... it was very telling...another story of wanting to make it up to her husband as she rejected him when on the pill..... Just as depression drugs affect libido, so does hormonal birth control (for many).. .

I never took it -didn't want the side effects, we used condoms up until our last son...one reason I probably still loved sex - even if we could have done it more often. He preferred without the raincoat though - so this likely hampered just a little of our play... 

After the last baby, got the NON-hormonal IUD ParaGard®  . I feel that's the best thing on the market.


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Yes, mostly in my 20's, not much in my 30's, and then from about age 39-42. I've been off it for about a year due to a health concern, but if I can get cleared by a hematologist I'll go back on it. Love not bleeding.
> 
> I never found that being on BC resulted in a discernible difference in my drive, but i think the level of hormone varies from one type of BC pill to the next. I was usually on very low dosage.
> 
> Why do you ask? Do you suspect that BC pills have affected your wife's drive? I'm curious--what it is about me or my story that reminds you of your wife?


From the amount of times a month (we may be a tad bit more) but she rarely, if ever, wants it, to the amount of time it was "sexless," to the fact you and my wife believe(d) the same thing in regards to sex, to the disdain that the husband feels. Pretty much everything lol. 

And I sincerely believe that BC played a role in it. There was a myriad of other things like coming from an affectionless childhood, to past trust issues with boyfriends, to losing respect for me, and my OCD (what used to be anyway).


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

stevehowefan said:


> I still applaud you for being brave enough to post this. There is hope for dudes out there like me, and several others. As I mentioned in your other thread, it was seven years for me. My wife "would" but didn't want to do it. She told me on several occasions that she could go the rest of her life without it. It wasn't just a lack of sex, it was the whole nine yards: no kissing; no hugging; no flirting; and no making me feel loved. She is slowly learning that she's not just a hole I'd like to plug. It means more than just that. Your husband does have every right to be guarded. I know I certainly am. My wife has started to come around, but it is still too early to tell if it's legit. She has definitely shown more interest in me in the last few months than she had in the previous seven years. I concur with larry.gray about it helping the husband to know the depths of your sorrow about the sorrow you caused him. Just be sure that if you start getting LD again, seek help. My wife made little attempt (visibly) to turn her LD around. I begged and pleaded, whined and pouted. She turned further away from me because of it. Thus began the vicious cycle. Good luck!


This sounds so familiar. I'm wondering if your wife perhaps doesn't "get it" like I did not. For those 10 years after having kids, I didn't feel like an equal partner in sex anymore. Yeah, sort of like I was just the hole he could plug. He never treated me with anything less than utmost respect sexually, but I somehow had lost faith in my own sexuality. I not longer felt it was within my control--he wanted it, and could capitulate or not. I wanted so badly to want it, but I so seldom did. We'd had ten years of awesome sex in our 20's, so it wasn't that I had any deep seated issues with sex to begin with. I really think it had to do with the stresses outside the bedroom--parenthood, home ownership, career--that affected me. Instead of trying to fix it, I accepted it, and thought my husband should, too. 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. My suggestion is to not give up, keep leading her, keep telling your wife how you feel. Ask her to read a book on the subject, show her this thread, ask her if she will set aside regular time (each day, each weekend, what ever is doable for her schedule) to look into the subject on her own on the Internet. See if she has any married guy friends she can trust to talk to about what sex means to a husband. Try not to whine or pout or demand. Try to come up with things that she could do and ask her what YOU could do. See if you can recruit her to be part of a team effort to fix this part of your marriage. I feel like I missed out on ten years of awesome loving that my husband was ready and willing to give to me. It's not that my husband wasn't trying--he did many of the things I just mentioned. The key was that he kept trying (not always well, but he didn't let the issue die), while keeping his side of the street clean. It's due largely to him that when I was able to make the connection, our marriage was still in tact. 

Is it fair? No. But it's always as cut and dried as "she knows how I feel and she's still not doing anything to really try and change."


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

stevehowefan said:


> There was a myriad of other things like coming from an affectionless childhood, to past trust issues with boyfriends, to losing respect for me, and my OCD (what used to be anyway).


Hmm, it does sound but like it's possible she is feeling that her sexuality isn't under her control. She can be desired, but she can't desire. The only power she has to exert is to say "no." I'm wondering if she can learn to see sex as something that belongs to her, too--something that she has to the power to bestow, not just withhold. Feeling like an equal partner is so, so important.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I will just comment from the other side... if my wife had the revelation you had things would be better, more balanced...
> 
> However as a man and totally depraved husband you never forget, my wife is less in my eyes than before. I love her but the lack of any movement over years speaks volumes.
> 
> ...


My husband and I have talked, and talked, and talked and made love, and made love, and made love since he got home around midnight last night. And I told him everything, and how sorry I am, and how I think this happened, and why I think I've been able to come to this very important realization at this time. And he wanted to much to hear it, and he had to much to say. He said it was possibly the best night of his life. I really cannot describe the connection I felt with him. That is what I really found: the lost connection. Recovering that is what enabled me to find my libido. Actually, I now think my libido has always been just fine, I'd just been unable to let surface. 

I also told him about this website, and what I've learned, and about joining and writing for advice, and what folks have been saying. And I told him about what you wrote (you are not the only one who has expressed the belief that my husband will never recover, never forgive me, never forget what I did to him.) He said he couldn't relate to the bitterness, that he was never angry at me. I asked him to be honest about how it changed his life and his happiness to not have a fulfilling intimate relationship with me, and his answer was hard to listen to. But he said the worst thing he could to would to be to carry that anger with him into the next ten years and beyond. That we all go through difficult periods, we all have crosses to bear, and that he believes he had a part in some of my crosses. 

He acknowledged that accepting this change and trusting it will take time, but that he cannot wait to get started, that he's always been a sucker for hope, but he's developed some coping strategies that have become habit and will take some time to break. 

I wish I could erase the pain I caused. I accept responsibility for it. I do believe I got through to my husband in time. I do believe that this has changed everything. But I don't take any credit for saving my marriage. You are absolutely right: he stayed by me. He gets all the credit. I will spend the rest of my life never forgetting that.


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> My husband and I have talked, and talked, and talked and made love, and made love, and made love since he got home around midnight last night. And I told him everything, and how sorry I am, and how I think this happened, and why I think I've been able to come to this very important realization at this time. And he wanted to much to hear it, and he had to much to say. He said it was possibly the best night of his life. I really cannot describe the connection I felt with him. That is what I really found: the lost connection. Recovering that is what enabled me to find my libido. Actually, I now think my libido has always been just fine, I'd just been unable to let surface.
> 
> I also told him about this website, and what I've learned, and about joining and writing for advice, and what folks have been saying. And I told him about what you wrote (you are not the only one who has expressed the belief that my husband will never recover, never forgive me, never forget what I did to him.) He said he couldn't relate to the bitterness, that he was never angry at me. I asked him to be honest about how it changed his life and his happiness to not have a fulfilling intimate relationship with me, and his answer was hard to listen to. But he said the worst thing he could to would to be to carry that anger with him into the next ten years and beyond. That we all go through difficult periods, we all have crosses to bear, and that he believes he had a part in some of my crosses.
> 
> ...


Here's where you should stop beating yourself up. It's been 10 years for him, seven for me. If my wife came out and did the things exactly the way you did, I would be so elated that I would begin to immediately forget past issues and forge ahead with this new found passion. Remember this, though. If you get LD again, you at least know how he feels. That means you need to work on it to prevent it from happening again. Don't let your proverbial LD guard down, and he won't ever feel neglected again. You've got an awesome dude for him to put up with this. Treat it as such. You should move forward from the pain you feel for his pain, but you should keep that little knowledge in the back of your mind.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> If you were in my husband's position, what would you think?


I put up with it for a helluva lot longer than ten years. It's not that hard to forgive.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> My husband and I have talked, and talked, and talked and made love, and made love, and made love since he got home around midnight last night. And I told him everything, and how sorry I am, and how I think this happened, and why I think I've been able to come to this very important realization at this time. And he wanted to much to hear it, and he had to much to say. He said it was possibly the best night of his life. I really cannot describe the connection I felt with him. That is what I really found: the lost connection. Recovering that is what enabled me to find my libido. Actually, I now think my libido has always been just fine, I'd just been unable to let surface.
> 
> I also told him about this website, and what I've learned, and about joining and writing for advice, and what folks have been saying. And I told him about what you wrote (you are not the only one who has expressed the belief that my husband will never recover, never forgive me, never forget what I did to him.) He said he couldn't relate to the bitterness, that he was never angry at me. I asked him to be honest about how it changed his life and his happiness to not have a fulfilling intimate relationship with me, and his answer was hard to listen to. But he said the worst thing he could to would to be to carry that anger with him into the next ten years and beyond. That we all go through difficult periods, we all have crosses to bear, and that he believes he had a part in some of my crosses.
> 
> ...


I believe your husband to be a wonderful man and you are a wonderful wife.

You've broken down the barriers and all will be fine. It reminds me of our story and we are more in love then ever before. Just keep working at it and soon enough it won't be work at all. 

Best of luck to both of you!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

stevehowefan said:


> Remember this, though. If you get LD again, you at least know how he feels. That means you need to work on it to prevent it from happening again. Don't let your proverbial LD guard down, and he won't ever feel neglected again. You've got an awesome dude for him to put up with this. Treat it as such. You should move forward from the pain you feel for his pain, but you should keep that little knowledge in the back of your mind.


Thank you.

The only request that my husband made was that I write down everything in my journal--everything that I've told him, everything that I've been feeling, so that if I felt things slipping out of control, I would have something to remind me of how wonderful the intimacy can be. I'll do that, but I also plan to keep visiting TAL. It really, really has helped to hear so many takes on issues that are familiar to me. 

I feel like my husband wants to be a partner in keeping things good for both of us. You are right: he is an awesome dude. Awesome dudes who stick around through the tough times deserve awesome rewards.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Wow, this was really a good story and I don't even have that problem!

OP you have really been very brave to come here (just as that other thread about Taking Her Husband for Granted and Now he's Leaving). Maybe you can go over there and encourage her a little bit or at least read her story. And maybe you H could give her some advice too, although she seem to be doing pretty good with it.

The sad part about this is not too many of the spouse who is withholding comes on here and it's all the ones who are not getting intimacy. 

I wonder have any of you who are in a sexless or infrequent sex marriage consider asking their spouse to read the posts about withholding sex? Maybe it could be an eye-opener?

It is really so sad that a spouse would have to live this way. Really sad.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Wow, this was really a good story and I don't even have that problem!
> 
> OP you have really been very brave to come here (just as that other thread about Taking Her Husband for Granted and Now he's Leaving). Maybe you can go over there and encourage her a little bit or at least read her story. And maybe you H could give her some advice too, although she seem to be doing pretty good with it.


Thank you. I've been pointed to so many posts, and I want to read them all. 



committed4ever said:


> I wonder have any of you who are in a sexless or infrequent sex marriage consider asking their spouse to read the posts about withholding sex? Maybe it could be an eye-opener?


I posed that very question on another thread, here
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/1611031-post491.html

There were a few responses, but I think I should have started a new thread with it because many of the posters in the Sexless Marriage thread are in long term sexless marriages and are fairly worn out with trying to change things. I wanted to post it there because it was that particular thread that was the eye opener for me and clued me in to what my husband was going through.

I'm really interested to know how many people out there would benefit like I did from TAL, and whether the spouses of members know they come here for support. I felt like nobody understood what was happening to my marriage until I stumbled upon TAL by accident. Reading about other people's problems, seeing the responses, asking for advice--it's been a real advantage and I wished I'd have known about it years ago. Maybe even better than therapy in some ways. I told my husband about it and he was interested in checking it out.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> I put up with it for a helluva lot longer than ten years. It's not that hard to forgive.


If it's one thing I'm learning, it's that HD partners can't be painted with a single brush when it comes to responding to LD partners who finally "get it." 

But people and relationships are unique, so I guess shouldn't surprise me. 

Did your situation improve? Were you in the position of having to decide whether or not to forgive?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I have nothing positive to say. Your post made me very angry. NOW you see the light after years of him trying to 'fix' things.

It wasn't important to you, so it wasn't important to anyone.

I would also say the soft words to 'get lucky'. My internal feelings would be something different. Why shouldn't he be guarded and hide his feelings from you? They never mattered to you before.

Forget the hairbrush and the leg shaving and get out your big girl kneepads and start to TRY to make up for the lost years of his sexual prime that he will forever be robbed of.

Better late then never...but better not late in the first place.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

JCD said:


> I have nothing positive to say. Your post made me very angry. NOW you see the light after years of him trying to 'fix' things.
> 
> It wasn't important to you, so it wasn't important to anyone.
> 
> ...


I expect that it made a lot of men on these forums angry. I accept that and know that my story cannot help everyone. 

His feeling always mattered to me, but I know saying that doesn't change the fact that I royally ****ed up. I honestly didn't know _how_ to fix things because I couldn't comprehend how badly things were broken for him. 

I think I've mentioned it before, but I surely feel the need to say again here: my husband is an extraordinary human being. Vindictiveness is not part of his nature.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

JCD said:


> I have nothing positive to say. Your post made me very angry. NOW you see the light after years of him trying to 'fix' things.
> 
> It wasn't important to you, so it wasn't important to anyone.
> 
> ...


You're wasting your anger and energy. Obvious she and her H are moving on.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> You're wasting your anger and energy. Obvious she and her H are moving on.


I completely agree.

This happens often on forums like this...but I wish people would remember:

You're NOT angry at the OP...you're angry at whomever the OP REPRESENTS to you in YOUR OWN LIFE.

So if want you want to vent...go vent to THEM...or create a venting thread...don't attack a poster...

Moreover, the argument doesn't make any sense...the OP's trying to 'make it right' now...and that's all anyone who ever made a mistake and came to realize it can ever do...

We don't get time machines...so the shoulda, coulda, wouldas become rather moot

Also, since we don't have those time machines, the inability to forgive is probably as self-defeating and self-harmful as whatever damage was done in past

All we ever have to work with is the present

Both for the forgiver and forgivee

And life is short (for both)...something to think about

Anyway

Good luck OP!!!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Why do you ask? Do you suspect that BC pills have affected your wife's drive?


There is no 'suspect' in our case. A combination of SSRI and BC pills were a significant part of killing her drive.



GettingIt said:


> I'm curious--what it is about me or my story that reminds you of your wife?


I have to be honest, when I read your story, I was starting to wonder if my wife had registered! Your story is soooo common.

It's just a matter of wives not understanding, compounded by _dismissing_ their husbands feelings when shared. Then when they start to have an uptick in drive a lightbulb goes off.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> And I told him about what you wrote (you are not the only one who has expressed the belief that my husband will never recover, never forgive me, never forget what I did to him.) He said he couldn't relate to the bitterness, that he was never angry at me. I asked him to be honest about how it changed his life and his happiness to not have a fulfilling intimate relationship with me, and his answer was hard to listen to. But he said the worst thing he could to would to be to carry that anger with him into the next ten years and beyond.


One can be free of bitterness and anger, but at the same time realize that those emotions are lingering under the surface not too deep. Put him back in the same situation and the reaction will be far more profound.

As I said, I won't go back.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GettingIt said:


> My husband and I have talked, and talked, and talked and made love, and made love, and made love since he got home around midnight last night. And I told him everything, and how sorry I am, and how I think this happened, and why I think I've been able to come to this very important realization at this time. *And he wanted to much to hear it, and he had to much to say. He said it was possibly the best night of his life. I really cannot describe the connection I felt with him. That is what I really found: the lost connection. Recovering that is what enabled me to find my libido. *Actually, I now think my libido has always been just fine, I'd just been unable to let surface.


 Makes all the sense in the world.. ... Emotional intimacy is so very very IMPORTANT... it is the ROCK of every thriving sex life really....if this is missing / dying... the sex life is one of the 1st things to go with it. 



> I also told him about this website, and what I've learned, and about joining and writing for advice, and what folks have been saying. And I told him about what you wrote (you are not the only one who has expressed the belief that my husband will never recover, never forgive me, never forget what I did to him.) He said he couldn't relate to the bitterness, that he was never angry at me. I asked him to be honest about how it changed his life and his happiness to not have a fulfilling intimate relationship with me, and his answer was hard to listen to. But he said the worst thing he could to would to be to carry that anger with him into the next ten years and beyond. That we all go through difficult periods, we all have crosses to bear, *and that he believes he had a part in some of my crosses.*


 it is always refreshing when each partner can see their own hand /admit / be vulnerable enough to express where they missed it too.... his not wanting to go to MC when you asked -being one you mentioned & his not being able to say he was .....which then snowballed to your recoiling from him....then your reacting to him by not wanting to say you were sorry either !

Me & my husband "Talk about Marriage" issues alot, bouncing things off each other.... Once I asked him his opinion on what HE feels is the #1 problem in marriages... his answer was... "Stubborness... people wanting to be right, holding on to that - can't say they are sorry" ....which then slowly grows a Grand Canyon divide....each feels alone, misunderstood.....How true this is....many even end up divorced over this alone. It's an emotional standoff... 

Sounds like 10 yrs were lost - and this the culprit... Wonderful you have recovered here. :smthumbup: and that you married a man of HOPE and perseverance. 



> He acknowledged that accepting this change and trusting it will take time, but that he cannot wait to get started, that *he's always been a sucker for hope*, but *he's developed some coping strategies that have become habit and will take some time to break*.


 I assume that was Porn, or would be for most men...



> I wish I could erase the pain I caused. I accept responsibility for it. I do believe I got through to my husband in time. I do believe that this has changed everything. *But I don't take any credit for saving my marriage. You are absolutely right: he stayed by me. He gets all the credit. I will spend the rest of my life never forgetting that*.


 You have a very good humble attitude here... I believe he deserves every praise you sing.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

JCD said:


> I have nothing positive to say. Your post made me very angry. NOW you see the light after years of him trying to 'fix' things.
> 
> It wasn't important to you, so it wasn't important to anyone.
> 
> ...


I can understand this reaction .... hard as it may be... the feelings makes sense to me. Some men should not stay....Reading this >>> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/71175-confession-former-ld-wife.html  tore me up......all I kept thinking was... this husband is a SAINT...or a Martyr .... appreciated her honestly but THAT was so hard to read...just imaging being on the receiving end ....it angered ME... 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink... how true in life... if that "DRINKING" means THAT MUCH TO the other.... a man needs to LEAVE that woman in the dust...we all deserve a chance at happiness & fulfillment ....and to enjoy and drink of our Prime years... No sin in this.... though it really sucks if one has children. 

I think one of the saddest things... is to go to one's death bed ANGRY --because of unrequited Love/ loss of one's best years...because he / she stayed where Love & giving was absent / broken... Some stories have happy endings...as we are seeing here... but one can only wait this out for so long.... we all have our breaking points, where we feel "it's too little/ too late"....and we could never forgive.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I feel JCD pain also. I am going through this emotional roller coaster ask we speak.
Someone posted somewhere that hit home for me " put him on a pedestal and then feed
him sh*t for years". My wife refuses to see whats shes done to me. 
Now she plays i have to meet her needs to have any initmacy. So for 6 years she dictated a
sexless marriage. Now she finally woke up when she saw i was meeting my needs in the past 
with porn. I am the bad guy. Takes no responsibility. So I quit porn for well over a year and now 
spend my days wondering what mood she will be in when I get home.
I sometimes hate leaving work to come home. So I come home to she doesn't believe
I love her, that I am there only for the kids.
So we are back to any intamacy on her terms. Not a smile, hug or kiss unless I listen to her tell 
me I dont love her and trying to prove I do. I have no life no more. All its this day in and day out.
I don't want to go to my death bed angry. I want to shake my wife...she doesn't she is doing to me.
Her life is rules by her emotions. She doesn't see the good.
I resent all the sexless years. But I would forget it all if she could just change her attitude. But doesn't 
seem capable. Very sad. I love my wife. I am a great father who does all he can for them and her.
But I can't see putting up with this much longer. Life is too short.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> If it's one thing I'm learning, it's that HD partners can't be painted with a single brush when it comes to responding to LD partners who finally "get it."
> 
> But people and relationships are unique, so I guess shouldn't surprise me.
> 
> Did your situation improve? Were you in the position of having to decide whether or not to forgive?


My wife and I had a fairly normal relationship for 8 - 9 years. Things changed drastically after the first child was born and sex didn't even enter into her thinking anymore. We went more than a year without several times. 

That did not improve until 25+ years later when her cycle started to get erratic. Her libido shot through the roof. It's an unusual, but not unheard of side effect some women experience at perimenopause and menopause itself. 

Women who experience sexual desire at this intensity do not report it to be pleasant at all and there are support groups for them.

She's said more than once, "If this is what it has been like for you, I'm so, so sorry."


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> There is no 'suspect' in our case. A combination of SSRI and BC pills were a significant part of killing her drive.
> 
> I have to be honest, when I read your story, I was starting to wonder if my wife had registered! Your story is soooo common.
> 
> It's just a matter of wives not understanding, compounded by _dismissing_ their husbands feelings when shared. Then when they start to have an uptick in drive a lightbulb goes off.


I know that many people here have suggested that this is all hormonal for me, but the more I think about it, the more I disagree.

It was the lightbulb of understanding that went off for me first, then followed the return of my desire for my husband. I had a sex drive before--I might have even felt an uptick of that in the past few years--but I wasn't allowing myself to use it as a way to emotionally connect with my husband. I'd have sex with him when emotional conditions were right AND the drive was there, or if I just had the drive but felt distant from him, I'd take care of things myself. If I'd have initiated sex with him every time I was horny, we'd have had sex every few days at least. 

You hit the nail on the head with the word _dismissing._ This was something that my husband told me time and time again. He felt dismissed. I'd listen, I'd tell how how I felt, we'd go around and around on what we could do, and finally I'd throw my hands in the air and say I felt like I was being attacked and what did he EXPECT me to do when I felt unloved and objectified and etc, etc, etc. I felt it completely unfair that he was calling me dismissive when I listened patiently, acknowledged that he seemed unhappy, made suggestions of things HE could do to change, and was nothing but honest with how I felt about sex. 

But now I understand with deep, deep clarity how truly dismissive I was, from his point of view. But let me say this--and my husband and I discussed this in length last evening--I WAS NOT HEARING WHAT MY HUSAND WAS TELLING ME BECAUSE THE WORDS HE NEEDED TO USE WERE WORDS HE REFUSED TO SAY DUE TO HIS FRUSTRATION AND RESENTMENT.

I will reiterate, before I got any farther here, that I place no blame whatsoever on my H. We do better when we know better, and he had not a clue that his bitterness and frustration were clouding his honesty. I don't blame him for his frustration and feelings of resentment, not one bit. 

But he never once took my face in his hands and looked me in the eye with the fullness of love and said, "Babe, I need you and I want you. I need your heart and I need your soul and I need you to need mine. I'm starving to death, and you are the only food that can save me. I can't be happy if you won't accept my love in all the ways I want to give it to you, and I can't be happy you don't understand this. I need you to understand this. Help me to help you understand this."

My H acknowledged that he felt those things, but saying them would have left him vulnerable to pity, or to my finding him pathetic, or him no longer controlling his own emotional destiny. If he had bared his soul like that and it had caused a change in my behavior, he would forever question if he'd actually reached me or if he'd only given me the key to how I had to act to keep him satisfied while not really feeling any differently about him. 

And therein lies the rub: we all protect ourselves, don't we? I was protecting myself from what I perceived to be a loss of control over my own sexuality, and he was protecting himself from loss of control emotionally. 

The worst thing you can do, whether you are LD or HD, is to make protecting your own stake in this game your priority. You can defend this behavior until you die, you can justify it and find others to validate your justification. But until you are willing to open yourself up to the worst hurt you can imagine, you will close yourself off from unimaginable bliss.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

JCD said:


> I have nothing positive to say. Your post made me very angry. NOW you see the light after years of him trying to 'fix' things.
> 
> It wasn't important to you, so it wasn't important to anyone.
> 
> ...


I appreciate this response more than I think most people (those who agree with it and those who revile it) will probably understand. The way that lack of intimacy has literally crippled the lives of some men (and women) who post here has opened up a window on humanity that I think I will be working to process for a long, long time. This goes beyond fixing my marriage; I feel like I have the key to a mystery that, if only I could share it with others, would alleviate untold private suffering. 

But it not like I can write a prescription and hand it out. It's a process of self reflection and deep, deep humility that comes at the cost of ego, that requires a complete surrender of things that we hold to be inalienably true about ourselves. How do you describe to someone how to achieve something so abstract? 

All I can say is that we are each in control of this problem in some way: seeking out the way is the difficult part.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> My wife and I had a fairly normal relationship for 8 - 9 years. Things changed drastically after the first child was born and sex didn't even enter into her thinking anymore. We went more than a year without several times.
> 
> That did not improve until 25+ years later when her cycle started to get erratic. Her libido shot through the roof. It's an unusual, but not unheard of side effect some women experience at perimenopause and menopause itself.
> 
> ...


In my country, there is a word of wisdom.. "Saying sorry without making serious efforts to make up for past mistakes, is an insult to the word 'sorry'.."


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> In my country, there is a word of wisdom.. "Saying sorry without making serious efforts to make up for past mistakes, is an insult to the word 'sorry'.."


Saying I'm sorry has been cathartic for me, and I've been trying to find a million ways to express it. But nor do I want to overwhelm and annoy my husband with what is really _grief_ on my part--a grief that it is not his duty to alleviate. 

I am trying to focus my desire to express my sorrow on actions, and it's not been a difficult thing to do. I've missed out on so much of the pleasure of deep, emotional giving. The reframing of sex and love and desire as something that is mine to give and not something that he is trying to wrench away from me and out of my control has been profound.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Saying I'm sorry has been cathartic for me, and I've been trying to find a million ways to express it. But nor do I want to overwhelm and annoy my husband with what is really _grief_ on my part--a grief that it is not his duty to alleviate.
> 
> I am trying to focus my desire to express my sorrow on actions, and it's not been a difficult thing to do. I've missed out on so much of the pleasure of deep, emotional giving. The reframing of sex and love and desire as something that is mine to give and not something that he is trying to wrench away from me and out of my control has been profound.


:smthumbup: Mrs. Gettingit, you're an example of a person who realized that she had made a mistake and then trying at her earnest to make up for that mistake. Posting your experience in TAM here is one of your wonderful efforts, and we applaud you for sharing with us. If you ever has plans to write a book about your journey to become a better wife, please let me know, I'd like to order an autographed copy! :smthumbup: Saludos!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ocotillo said:


> That did not improve until 25+ years later when her cycle started to get erratic. Her libido shot through the roof. It's an unusual, but not unheard of side effect some women experience at perimenopause and menopause itself.
> 
> Women who experience sexual desire at this intensity do not report it to be pleasant at all and there are support groups for them.
> 
> She's said more than once, "If this is what it has been like for you, I'm so, so sorry."


I never heard it described quite like that ,or support groups for this....really ~ what are those called ? That INTENSITY only lasted 8 months for me.. that's it... I feel I am the same NOW as I was before I had that experience..only my mindset changed -because of it. 



> *GettingIt said*: But he never once took my face in his hands and looked me in the eye with the fullness of love and said, "Babe, I need you and I want you. I need your heart and I need your soul and I need you to need mine. I'm starving to death, and you are the only food that can save me. I can't be happy if you won't accept my love in all the ways I want to give it to you, and I can't be happy you don't understand this. I need you to understand this. Help me to help you understand this."


 I love this...how true..... Such Vulnerability is where we connect..it has to start with someone ..

If you ever get a moment, listen to the very insightful video in this 1st link of this thread...you might say the Author IS the shame and Vulnerability Researcher... 




> And therein lies the rub: we all protect ourselves, don't we? I was protecting myself from what I perceived to be a loss of control over my own sexuality, and he was protecting himself from loss of control emotionally.
> 
> The worst thing you can do, whether you are LD or HD, is to make protecting your own stake in this game your priority. You can defend this behavior until you die, you can justify it and find others to validate your justification. But until you are willing to open yourself up to the worst hurt you can imagine, you will close yourself off from unimaginable bliss.


 Oh GettingIT... what an excellent thread you started with your story and how this has played out....lessons learned.

Oh how many couples fall into this RIGHT HERE -just as you have spoken it... 



> I appreciate this response more than I think most people (those who agree with it and those who revile it) will probably understand. The way that lack of intimacy has literally crippled the lives of some men (and women) who post here has opened up a window on humanity that I think I will be working to process for a long, long time. This goes beyond fixing my marriage; I feel like I have the key to a mystery that, if only I could share it with others, would alleviate untold private suffering.
> 
> But it not like I can write a prescription and hand it out. It's a process of self reflection and deep, deep humility that comes at the cost of ego, that requires a complete surrender of things that we hold to be inalienably true about ourselves. How do you describe to someone how to achieve something so abstract?


 I have to agree with john_lord_b3's words in his last post... you need to stick around here.... .this thread is GOLDEN...and you write very well GettingIt... Such insight ....it will come to you....Your marital journey & testimony can help many see where they are missing it / missing each other... Vulnerability is huge in this......

I really believe some people are meant to inspire others with their stories... when the clarity of this comes on you like a storm... the more intense your passion will be to share ... since you & he can not get those yrs back ... this will become your offering of sorts...to share HOPE & direction to other struggling couples . :smthumbup:


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I never heard it described quite like that ,or support groups for this....really ~ what are those called ? That INTENSITY only lasted 8 months for me.. that's it... I feel I am the same NOW as I was before I had that experience..only my mindset changed -because of it.


SA,

It has lasted nearly three years for us now. Three to six times a year to nearly everyday is literally a night and day change to put it mildly. The group she has participated in is invitation only.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

> Mrs. Gettingit, you're an example of a person who realized that she had made a mistake and then trying at her earnest to make up for that mistake. Posting your experience in TAM here is one of your wonderful efforts, and we applaud you for sharing with us. If you ever has plans to write a book about your journey to become a better wife, please let me know, I'd like to order an autographed copy! Saludos!





> I have to agree with john_lord_b3's words in his last post... you need to stick around here.... .this thread is GOLDEN...and you write very well GettingIt... Such insight ....it will come to you....Your marital journey & testimony can help many see where they are missing it / missing each other... Vulnerability is huge in this......
> 
> I really believe some people are meant to inspire others with their stories... when the clarity of this comes on you like a storm... the more intense your passion will be to share ... since you & he can not get those yrs back ... this will become your offering of sorts...to share HOPE & direction to other struggling couples . :smthumbup:


Thank you. That means a lot to me. I am struggling to find a way to make those 10 years matter somehow.

As it happens, I am a writer.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> SA,
> 
> It has lasted nearly three years for us now. Three to six times a year to nearly everyday is literally a night and day change to put it mildly. The group she has participated in is invitation only.


Did your wife ever offer an explanation for the change except that it was hormones? The reason I ask is that my husband has been very, very interested in listening to me talk about how the change came about in me. He said that if I had not talked to him about it, but just suddenly shown a huge increase in the amount of sex I wanted, he would have been left feeling very confused and unsure, and questioning whether something was going on had been going, such as an affair. 

Also, does the fact that her change was hormonal leave you feeling angry at all? I feel tremendous guilt even as I have been experiencing the most exquisite pleasure these past few days. Why do I get to benefit from this when it was my husband who suffered for all those years? 

I guess what I'm getting at is . . . did you and your wife analyze her change at all in terms of its emotional impact after you'd gone without for so long? Do you ever talk about it these days? 

My husband and I have neglected everything we could neglect this weekend (including our kids, LOL, whom we have bribed with money and chocolate and extra screen time) so that we can unravel what this means and what it has meant and where we go from here. He said the talking and the closeness have been more important to him than the (very frequent) sex over the past two days. When we have to stop talking to go do something, we look at the schedule to see where we can fit in some more. THIS is what came back to our marriage, not just my libido.

Do you feel close to your wife? Is sex emotionally bonding for you, or is it more often just a physical release for you now, and, if so, is that because of damage from the sexless years?

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm prying or insinuating: I don't mean to, I just really, really want to understand what goes on inside a man's head when is LD wife switches.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I am getting to the point in life where the libido is heading south. Nothing crippling, but I am not 32 any more. My sex life during that period was adequate to good. So I didn't really miss much.

But her husband did. I feel for him. This does not mean that his 40's and 50's can't be nice. But it isn't a 30's sex life.

So then I read about how she has opened the floodgate to...what? "Intimacy where he can pamper her'? Um...no. Now she needs to make sure that his 40's and 50's are pretty darned sexually fulfilling. Even with a sore back. Even if she doesn't immediately feel like it. NOW you see that you are like air and water to him. You cannot morally go back. Now you know.

Guess what? I do not feel 'fulfilled' changing oil in the car. I do not have this pressing 'desire' or 'libido' to cut the grass. I do it anyway as an act of service to my wife and family. Even when I'm tired. 

And I find the idea 'he didn't tell me in a way I was willing to hear' as a bit of a cop out. But it's done. NOW you get it.

So YOU create the intimacy HE needs and has been starved for for the last 10 years. HE will eventually reciprocate. 

I recall one post by one of our female posters. There was a debate about how libido 'created' the need for sex and she saw it as a need that each partner should feel the desire to satisfy in the other.

So she logged off and gave hubby a BJ right then, reminded that sex is an 'obligation' which pays off hugely in 'intimacy'. Objectification as an exuse really seems to mean 'I don't want to be desired since I have to reciprocate'. But maybe that's just my opinion.

Honestly, Gettingit, you've actually cheated yourself. Your marriage will be far different and better now that you've 'gotten it'.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ocotillo said:


> SA,
> 
> It has lasted nearly three years for us now. Three to six times a year to nearly everyday is literally a night and day change to put it mildly. The group she has participated in is invitation only.


Ok,another question if you don't mind ....when she only wanted it 3 - 6 times in 365 days - was she masterbating secretly ?

It seems to me, Mid Life can = any crazy thing with women!! From nothing to insanity....there is no Script to be expected then. As GettingIt at 44 doesn't feel this is hormonal.... 

In my case.....Here are the facts..



> *1*. Always loved pleasure... been masterbating since I was 11ish...if something brushed up against me in the middle of the night there.. it was on (felt guilty & dirty but it felt too darn good!)...or If I read something erotic, seen an R rated sex scene.....I was on fire...
> 
> *2. *Had to have it at least once a week... always an initiator when I wanted it ...thought orgasms was the greatest feeling on this earth...If he went before me, I'd MAKE him do it again....If I got horny in the middle of the night -half the time I woke him up, half the time I didn't (He was always more tired than me)... but I always WANTED TO....so I did masterbate while married, maybe 2-3 times a month.(He never knew)- too taboo to talk about.
> 
> ...


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

JCD said:


> I am getting to the point in life where the libido is heading south. Nothing crippling, but I am not 32 any more. My sex life during that period was adequate to good. So I didn't really miss much.
> 
> But her husband did. I feel for him. This does not mean that his 40's and 50's can't be nice. But it isn't a 30's sex life.
> 
> So then I read about how she has opened the floodgate to...what? "Intimacy where he can pamper her'? Um...no. Now she needs to make sure that his 40's and 50's are pretty darned sexually fulfilling. Even with a sore back. Even if she doesn't immediately feel like it. NOW you see that you are like air and water to him. You cannot morally go back. Now you know.


You are right, the not being able to undo the hurt is the most difficult thing. I am quite eager (and more than willing) to make up for lost time in other departments, though. 



JCD said:


> Guess what? I do not feel 'fulfilled' changing oil in the car. I do not have this pressing 'desire' or 'libido' to cut the grass. I do it anyway as an act of service to my wife and family. Even when I'm tired.


My husband explicitly asked me never, ever to have sex with him as an "act of service." He said that was a deal breaker in our marriage far more than infrequent sex. My therapist suggested that I "fake til I make it." My husband said that would have been the worst thing I could have done to him because it was not the physical sex he was craving, and that it was tantamount to telling him a lie. 



JCD said:


> And I find the idea 'he didn't tell me in a way I was willing to hear' as a bit of a cop out. But it's done. NOW you get it.


Yes, I struggled with how to say that without it seeming as though I was suggesting that he should have figured that out. I wanted to convey that my H and I had talked at length about things that could have happened over the years that would have perhaps made a difference. It was enlightening to him for me to articulate what he could have said differently, but he could not read my mind anymore than I could read his.



JCD said:


> So YOU create the intimacy HE needs and has been starved for for the last 10 years. HE will eventually reciprocate.


Perhaps. I acknowledge and accept that possibility. 



JCD said:


> I recall one post by one of our female posters. There was a debate about how libido 'created' the need for sex and she saw it as a need that each partner should feel the desire to satisfy in the other.


Yes, _that_ idea of libido is what I was not "getting." I was looking at his libido as a drive that was trying to TAKE something from me rather than give it. The understanding that the best use of my own libido is as a power to love and fulfill my husband emotionally is what I have gained. 



JCD said:


> Honestly, Gettingit, you've actually cheated yourself. Your marriage will be far different and better now that you've 'gotten it'.


I agree whole heartedly.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> My husband explicitly asked me never, ever to have sex with him as an "act of service." He said that was a deal breaker in our marriage far more than infrequent sex. My therapist suggested that I "fake til I make it." My husband said that would have been the worst thing I could have done to him because it was not the physical sex he was craving, and that it was tantamount to telling him a lie.


I think he doesn't understand women particularly well then. If, as you say in all other respects you had an emotionally satisfying life with him, then what is the problem? Does he require you to be starving before you cook him dinner? Does he require that you be out of clothes before you do laundry for him?

No.

Women sometimes don't get 'into it' until hubby is already 'into it'. Then after that, Whoa Nelly!

So in that regard, it's on him. He cut himself off from some potential quality time.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Thank you. That means a lot to me. I am struggling to find a way to make those 10 years matter somehow.
> 
> As it happens, I am a writer.


ah, perfect! Please do write your book, and I'll order an autographed copy 

And don't forget to buy something nice for your dear hubby, with your royalty money


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I know that many people here have suggested that this is all hormonal for me, but the more I think about it, the more I disagree.
> 
> It was the lightbulb of understanding that went off for me first, then followed the return of my desire for my husband. I had a sex drive before--I might have even felt an uptick of that in the past few years--but I wasn't allowing myself to use it as a way to emotionally connect with my husband.


If you're able to express that right there to your husband, it goes a long ways towards taking away the fear that you'll relapse.

I know it wasn't the case for my wife. The erratic menstrual cycles comments nailed it. My wife was only 38 at the time, but her clockwork cycles suddenly became all over the map. She'd miss cycles all together, or go 35-50 days where it was 28-30 before. Her uptick in drive happened _exactly_ when this happened.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Also, does the fact that her change was hormonal leave you feeling angry at all?


Only if I dwell on it. Most of the time I don't. 

But if I do think about it, it does annoy me that she did ignore what I said, and I do have doubt that she feels all that bad about it. It sounds like you've done more than my wife is comfortable with.

Most of the time I'm enjoying what we do have.



GettingIt said:


> I feel tremendous guilt even as I have been experiencing the most exquisite pleasure these past few days. Why do I get to benefit from this when it was my husband who suffered for all those years?


You can't undo the past, and feeling intense guilt doesn't help either of you. Vow to yourself never to go back and enjoy the present.



GettingIt said:


> I guess what I'm getting at is . . . did you and your wife analyze her change at all in terms of its emotional impact after you'd gone without for so long? Do you ever talk about it these days?


We talked about it a LOT last fall. This wasn't the only problem in our marriage before, so we did talk about a lot including this. I think all that nearly all that will be said about it has been hashed out. 



GettingIt said:


> Do you feel close to your wife? Is sex emotionally bonding for you, or is it more often just a physical release for you now, and, if so, is that because of damage from the sexless years?


HUGE.

UNBELIEVABLE.

A NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE.

I went from thinking about a serious exit plan to (again) imagining spending the rest of my life with her.



GettingIt said:


> I'm sorry if it seems like I'm prying or insinuating: I don't mean to, I just really, really want to understand what goes on inside a man's head when is LD wife switches.


You weren't asking me but I answered anyway - ask away and I'm happy to answer your questions.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Only if I dwell on it. Most of the time I don't.
> 
> Most of the time I'm enjoying what we do have.
> 
> You can't undo the past, and feeling intense guilt doesn't help either of you. Vow to yourself never to go back and enjoy the present.


I so want my husband to not only be never able to dwell on it, but for it to fade so far into his memory that he would be unable to recall the hurt if he tried. I know that is asking a lot--maybe it's impossible--but it gives me something to focus on from day to day. 

My husband is worried that it will be the guilt that will drive me to have sex with him when the desire isn't strong. It has always been very, very important to him that my enthusiasm and motivation for sex comes from desire. We've made a pact that when I feel guilty, I'll give him hugs. 



larry.gray said:


> We talked about it a LOT last fall. This wasn't the only problem in our marriage before, so we did talk about a lot including this. I think all that nearly all that will be said about it has been hashed out.


We had other problems too all of which came into play in the decline in our intimacy. We've done a lot of talking and want to do more. 

I hope you guys still talk; even if it's not about sex. I think not talking leads to not doing other things which leads to not having sex. 




larry.gray said:


> I went from thinking about a serious exit plan to (again) imagining spending the rest of my life with her.


When I read that I smiled; so many HD folks who have gone through the pain seem bitter beyond recall. It's nice to read a tender comment about a former LD partner. 



larry.gray said:


> You weren't asking me but I answered anyway - ask away and I'm happy to answer your questions.


I'm glad you did. This is the firs thing I read this morning, and it put me in a good frame of mind to start my day.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

JCD said:


> I think he doesn't understand women particularly well then.


I think he'd agree with you here.



JCD said:


> If, as you say in all other respects you had an emotionally satisfying life with him, then what is the problem?


I wasn't emotionally satisfied and neither was he; we got along, we had become adept at dealing with the difficult issues in our relationship, we spent pleasant times together, but there was no passion and there often was underlying tension that we both did our best to deal with alone. We had accepted it and figured we could live with it.



JCD said:


> Does he require you to be starving before you cook him dinner? Does he require that you be out of clothes before you do laundry for him?


His hunger and his wardrobe are easy to keep track of, his emotional needs I had a harder time with. 




JCD said:


> Women sometimes don't get 'into it' until hubby is already 'into it'. Then after that, Whoa Nelly!
> 
> So in that regard, it's on him. He cut himself off from some potential quality time.


I'm afraid I don't understand this part. Do you mean he should have been more into sex so that I'd be into it? I guess I don't see what you mean by "in that regard."


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

JCD said:


> I think he doesn't understand women particularly well then. If, as you say in all other respects you had an emotionally satisfying life with him, then what is the problem? Does he require you to be starving before you cook him dinner? Does he require that you be out of clothes before you do laundry for him?
> 
> No.
> 
> ...


 I AGREE with this .... but some men are naturally more passive....and can I say "*sensitive*" to our desire over others... I KNOW my husband is like this too...

I read what GettingIt said that you are responding to in this post....and I thought to myself.. that's exactly the way MY husband feels...When she said this >>


> *GettingIt said: * *It has always been very, very important to him that my enthusiasm and motivation for sex comes from desire*.


....or as my husband would say "Me wanting to BE THERE, into it"......for him, it had to be a *shared* mutual experience, or he would get zero pleasure/ would be "hollow"...in just me "going along" -while he got his... He'd reject that like the plague even if he was dying for it... I think he is a little over the TOP in the "emotional" frankly. 

In our past, if he felt the slightest hesitation in me, he'd roll over. Now ME on the other hand....I am nothing like this....I'd go out of my way to turn up the heat... in words/ touch.....I'd be all over him, I'd make it very hard to resist...till I got him where I wanted him.... I would not understand his way of thinking back then since I was never the "passive" type.... 

He'd let a book in my hand stop him....That would never happen to me!! 

He also never had fantasies of being the Aggressor .... we've talked about this...he'd rather the woman come after him and "use him" for her pleasure.. (I'm a good match for him feeling this way - ha ha ).... But back in the day ...being somewhat inhibited....and just not educated feeling I only needed it so often/ the art of arousal escaping me & other things on the brain...this worked against him & our sex life..



> *GettingIt said*: I'm afraid I don't understand this part. Do you mean he should have been more into sex so that I'd be into it? I guess I don't see what you mean by "in that regard.


What he is saying (I believe) is...... Men are generally the pursuers of sex (due to having 10 + times more Testosterone over women)... and women are like "Slow Cookers".....Men need to understand this.. we are the RECEPTIVE LOVERS (due to Estrogen) ...why we need all that foreplay... this is normal/ natural..... 

So the guy, already turned on...he will do whatever he can to warm her up ...and bring her to arousal...



I was thinking about our Differences in our both "MISSING IT" in our pasts.... they originate from very different sources....

*** Your story of overcoming can reach multitudes by it's telling...as it is FAR FAR FAR MORE COMMON .....about the subtle loss of connection for whatever reason....because of stubborness (on both sides) ...allowing this divide to grow emotionally.....the climbing of Resentment & learning to live with the "separateness" (many fall into EA's leading to PA's under this Marital tension or Divorce, escapism, even depression )...

But yet ...you had a DECENT SEX DRIVE all along ...just lost it FOR HIM....and built these beliefs up in your head - that he was wanting to "Take something from you"....which caused you to push him away even further....

What you both needed was some "Vulnerability" to admit you still Love, you want to get back, how you both deeply felt needed to be expressed, a chance taken...... but you couldn't bring yourselves to go there, because of EGO....you recoiled...he didn't want to risk the HURT if even more rejection....better to remain "untouchable"- this was safer......very typical when hurt/angry/ resentment filled..

So what originally brought you here to TAM GettinIt? I remember you saying it was reading the pain of others men's stories that put the  on...their pain, hurt ? 

OUR story of missing it ... was about a Wife getting too caught up in her Kids (My priorities messed up -infertility for yrs -didn't help)....My Inhibitions/ Repression (we didn't talk about sex at all :slap:- I felt certain acts were "dirty" -pornish ) & his Passivity (more sensitive than the average man - not talking to me about his needs/ never pushing).... I was not a mind reader.... were our blunders. Far less common story on TAM....


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I AGREE with this .... but some men are naturally more passive....and can I say "*sensitive*" to our desire over others... I KNOW my husband is like this too...
> 
> I read what GettingIt said that you are responding to in this post....and I thought to myself.. that's exactly the way MY husband feels...When she said this >>
> ....or as my husband would say "Me wanting to BE THERE, into it"......for him, it had to be a *shared* mutual experience, or he would get zero pleasure/ would be "hollow"...in just me "going along" -while he got his... He'd reject that like the plague even if he was dying for it... I think he is a little over the TOP in the "emotional" frankly.


Yes, I believe that describes my H's attitude towards it very well. It was the stunning realization that he's been waiting all these years for me to want him as much as he wants me. THAT is perfection for him: not having me "available" whenever get has the urge. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> In our past, if he felt the slightest hesitation in me, he'd roll over. Now ME on the other hand....I am nothing like this....I'd go out of my way to turn up the heat... in words/ touch.....I'd be all over him, I'd make it very hard to resist...till I got him where I wanted him.... I would not understand his way of thinking back then since I was never the "passive" type....
> 
> He'd let a book in my hand stop him....That would never happen to me!!


Dear god, are we married to the SAME MAN?? 

I do believe after lots of rejection, though, my husband naturally would made assumption about what I meant when I had a book in my hand, or was watching TV, or would head to bed before he was ready. (And I admit I had a million ways to avoid the possibility that he'd get the idea that he might have a chance, so I can't blame him.) I think this one of the "coping" mechanism he'd come up with over the years: just assume that unless I'm crawling to him naked, I'm not in the mood. It might take a little bit of doing, but we are well on the way to resetting this old habit. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> He also never had fantasies of being the Aggressor .... we've talked about this...he'd rather the woman come after him and "use him" for her pleasure.. (I'm a good match for him feeling this way - ha ha ).... But back in the day ...being somewhat inhibited....and just not educated feeling I only needed it so often/ the art of arousal escaping me & other things on the brain...this worked against him & our sex life..


My H is very much an aggressor; he'd just learned how to deny that in himself because the rejection hurt too much. I'm fairly aggressive, too. Looks like we'll have to take turns.:ezpi_wink1:



SimplyAmorous said:


> What he is saying (I believe) is...... Men are generally the pursuers of sex (due to having 10 + times more Testosterone over women)... and women are like "Slow Cookers".....Men need to understand this.. we are the RECEPTIVE LOVERS (due to Estrogen) ...why we need all that foreplay... this is normal/ natural.....
> 
> So the guy, already turned on...he will do whatever he can to warm her up ...and bring her to arousal...


Ah yes, my H has always understood that, been a tremendously giving lover. I'd just stopped letting him give to me. 





SimplyAmorous said:


> I was thinking about our Differences in our both "MISSING IT" in our pasts.... they originate from very different sources....
> 
> *** Your story of overcoming can reach multitudes by it's telling...as it is FAR FAR FAR MORE COMMON .....about the subtle loss of connection for whatever reason....because of stubborness (on both sides) ...allowing this divide to grow emotionally.....the climbing of Resentment & learning to live with the "separateness" (many fall into EA's leading to PA's under this Marital tension or Divorce, escapism, even depression )...


I, too, believe that it is SO, SO common. Slipping into lack of marital intimacy is easy to do when you have kids, a house, finances, etc, etc etc demanding attention. Sadly, getting it back can be such hard work, and unless both parities can swallow ego and pride and envy and open their hearts to hope (risking pain in the process), then it's not going to work. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> But yet ...you had a DECENT SEX DRIVE all along ...just lost it FOR HIM....and built these beliefs up in your head - that he was wanting to "Take something from you"....which caused you to push him away even further....
> 
> What you both needed was some "Vulnerability" to admit you still Love, you want to get back, how you both deeply felt needed to be expressed, a chance taken...... but you couldn't bring yourselves to go there, because of EGO....you recoiled...he didn't want to risk the HURT if even more rejection....better to remain "untouchable"- this was safer......very typical when hurt/angry/ resentment filled..


You are spot on, SA. I'm happy you were here to read my story and encourage me.



SimplyAmorous said:


> So what originally brought you here to TAM GettinIt? I remember you saying it was reading the pain of others men's stories that put the  on...their pain, hurt ?


I think I had come to realize that I had to do something. We had gotten to a point in our marriage and in my own happiness that I wanted my husband to be happy. For so long I'd told him that he needed to figure out what was making him so unhappy, that I couldn't help him until he helped himself, etc, etc. A few months ago he sat me down to talk (again) about what lack of sex was doing to him. I could tell that he'd thought long and hard about how to reach me, he'd done some reading on his own, it was something that he'd not given up on. He just asked me to THINK about what he was saying. TO CONSIDER the possibility that there might be things I could to to increase my desire for sex, to get my old libido back. I don't know why I did it, but two weeks ago I sat down and Googled, "How do I make myself want sex." And I ended up at TAL on a thread written by an LD woman who desperately, desperately wanted her drive back. I started looking around, and FINALLY realized what my H was saying, and what he has been going through. [/quote]



SimplyAmorous said:


> OUR story of missing it ... was about a Wife getting too caught up in her Kids (My priorities messed up -infertility for yrs -didn't help)....My Inhibitions/ Repression (we didn't talk about sex at all :slap:- I felt certain acts were "dirty" -pornish ) & his Passivity (more sensitive than the average man - not talking to me about his needs/ never pushing).... I was not a mind reader.... were our blunders. Far less common story on TAM....


Some of those elements are our story, too. Mostly motherhood and other priorities. Um, but not the repression. We had ten years of serous kink before we got married. And guess what? This dirty girl is baaaa-aaack!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

IndiaInk said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> This happens often on forums like this...but I wish people would remember:
> 
> ...


Except that venting at the poster can be valuable in seeing the hurt and pain their actions have caused. A spouse, out a love, may have difficulty showing that, knowing that it will hurt their partner. So they may not fully reveal that, or may not show the full emotion behind their statements. 

So I think these posts can be useful in helping someone like the OP really understand what her husband might be feeling.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

*GettingIt*



GettingIt said:


> Did your wife ever offer an explanation for the change except that it was hormones? The reason I ask is that my husband has been very, very interested in listening to me talk about how the change came about in me. He said that if I had not talked to him about it, but just suddenly shown a huge increase in the amount of sex I wanted, he would have been left feeling very confused and unsure, and questioning whether something was going on had been going, such as an affair.


Her attitude was similar in some respects to what LadyOfTheLake has described in another thread. i.e. That sex is simply a treat like candy or icing on the cake. It is not really a need and once you are parents, there are more important things to attend to. Anything less is childish. In this, I think she may have been mirroring some of the dysfunction in her parent's marriage. From what I can tell, her mother thought exactly the same way. 




GettingIt said:


> Also, does the fact that her change was hormonal leave you feeling angry at all? I feel tremendous guilt even as I have been experiencing the most exquisite pleasure these past few days. Why do I get to benefit from this when it was my husband who suffered for all those years?


I could allow myself to feel resentful, but _I choose not to_. I'm not a Christian, but I think there's a lot of wisdom in the saying, "_Love does not keep a record of injury_" Life is too short and we're both closing in on six-zero. I'm not going to screw up what's left. 

I'm sorry about the guilt you're feeling, but what's done is done and can't be undone. If your husband is willing to forgive, forget and move on, please don't allow past mistakes to continue to harm both of you. 




GettingIt said:


> I guess what I'm getting at is . . . did you and your wife analyze her change at all in terms of its emotional impact after you'd gone without for so long? Do you ever talk about it these days?


We've talked about that aspect and she's apologized in tears. Revisiting the subject simply gets cruel after awhile. 




GettingIt said:


> My husband and I have neglected everything we could neglect this weekend (including our kids, LOL, whom we have bribed with money and chocolate and extra screen time) so that we can unravel what this means and what it has meant and where we go from here. He said the talking and the closeness have been more important to him than the (very frequent) sex over the past two days. When we have to stop talking to go do something, we look at the schedule to see where we can fit in some more. THIS is what came back to our marriage, not just my libido.


Unlike sex, there has never been any argument that conversation is a need in marriage and we've not suffered too much in that regard. Since she is a conservative, Christian fundamentalist and I'm liberal, Jewish and agnostic we both mastered the art of talking around the 'elephants in the room' that would lead to fights. Sex eventually fell into that category. I would say the quality of the conversation improved a lot with that particular elephant gone though. 




GettingIt said:


> Do you feel close to your wife? Is sex emotionally bonding for you, or is it more often just a physical release for you now, and, if so, is that because of damage from the sexless years?
> 
> I'm sorry if it seems like I'm prying or insinuating: I don't mean to, I just really, really want to understand what goes on inside a man's head when is LD wife switches.


Yes I feel close to my wife. More so than in years. Sex is not just a physical release. It has a major impact on how you think and feel. 




*SA*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Ok,another question if you don't mind ....when she only wanted it 3 - 6 times in 365 days - was she masterbating secretly ?


No - And her brand of Christianity teaches that masturbation is a sin :scratchhead:



SimplyAmorous said:


> It seems to me, Mid Life can = any crazy thing with women!! From nothing to insanity....there is no Script to be expected then.


LOL - Midlife has definitely had some surprises....


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Except that venting at the poster can be valuable in seeing the hurt and pain their actions have caused. * A spouse, out a love, may have difficulty showing that, knowing that it will hurt their partner. So they may not fully reveal that, or may not show the full emotion behind their statements. *
> 
> So I think these posts can be useful in helping someone like the OP really understand what her husband might be feeling.


I could not have put this better myself. I don't harbor any ill will toward any poster who has felt negatively about me or my story. Truth be told, I was braced for much, much worse. 

My reason for starting this thread was to try and understand what my husband has been going through so that I can do everything in my power to ensure it never happens again and make the rest of our marriage more pleasurable and loving that he could have ever in his wildest dreams imagined. I can't undo the past ten years, but I can surely make a difference from this day forward. To those ends, I want to hear what every deprived husband has to say, no matter how hard it is to hear. I've asked my own husband for full disclosure. 

My reason for joining TAL was to share my story in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, people might read it and recognize themselves or their partners and get a fresh idea on how to approach their issues with intimacy. I beat myself up every day for not "getting it." If only I knew then what I know now. I'm not saying the past ten years would have been perfect, but we could have been back on track much sooner. 

I believe that, as you pointed out, my husband, even in is pain and frustration, did not want to hurt me or make me unhappy. When I read some posts on here, I thought, "I wonder if my H has come here for support, I wonder if he is one of these men." I recognized the situations over and over and over again. I see my husband in so many men here and I have a very, very strong desire to help them. So if lashing out at me helps, if saying to me what they cannot say to their wives helps, I'm happy to listen. 

Peace to you, and thank you for this invaluable comment.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GettingIt said:


> Yes, I believe that describes my H's attitude towards it very well. *It was the stunning realization that he's been waiting all these years for me to want him as much as he wants me. * THAT is perfection for him:


 And isn't that just the most  feeling in the world? I know I think it IS. I'd be depressed without it too... 

If us women were on the receiving end of THAT - feeling our husband's didn't want us... OH MY...don't want to go there. The more "emotion" a man feels in this.... I would think is a PLUS... personally - it's very very ROMANTIC .




> Dear god, are we married to the SAME MAN??


 Well since yours has no problems getting a little AGGRESSIVE... there's the divide...I think you got the best of both worlds there GettingIt :smthumbup: 

My husband is purely a sensual "Making Love" man... he really struggles with pushing the bar... he thinks there is no place for a little selfishness in Sex.. which to me... if you both selfishly WANT IT & express that- a firm grip , a pushing up against the wall -showing NEED.....this is HIGH LUST, very erotic.. He is a major Pleaser... but not going to complain about that ! 

I guess there is "a Bar" in everything...where some men might be VERY Aggressive and downright selfish at one end...I'd say he's at the other end somewhere -though he still wants HIS- thank goodness or THAT WOULD BOTHER ME ! 

Somewhere in the middle of that Bar...I'd think a man would be perfectly Balanced, playing many sides in the sexual to please in many ways. 



> I do believe after lots of rejection, though, my husband naturally would made assumption about what I meant when I had a book in my hand, or was watching TV, or would head to bed before he was ready. (And I admit I had a million ways to avoid the possibility that he'd get the idea that he might have a chance, so I can't blame him.) *I think this one of the "coping" mechanism he'd come up with over the years: just assume that unless I'm crawling to him naked, I'm not in the mood*. It might take a little bit of doing, but we are well on the way to resetting this old habit.


 I used to push myself into him, a little rocking back & forth (back in the day).. laying there spooning...then he KNEW ...no words exchanged...it was there for the TAKING... 
He also knew if a sexy scene came on TV/ a movie... I'd have to have it, should have watched more Romances back then I guess. 

Now we see the naughty in EVERYTHING and run with it...a lot of flirting going on...makes us feel young....

Oh what a wonderful adventure you 2 are on now... REdiscovering...be sure to take a very Romantic vacation to celebrate this special time in your lives ....make NEW memories together... I remember just wanting to RUN away from the kids....Here is a suggestion for you (our 1st destination) >> 
Champagne Tower, Glass Tub, Hotel Room Jacuzzi, Heart Shaped Tub 








...












> *My H is very much an aggressor*; he'd just learned how to deny that in himself because the rejection hurt too much. I'm fairly aggressive, too. Looks like we'll have to take turns.:ezpi_wink1:
> 
> Ah yes, my H has always understood that, *been a tremendously giving lover.* I'd just stopped letting him give to me.


 Yeah, when they want to give so badly in this way...and feel it is not wanted/ discarded.....emotionally devastating.... 

You had it all GettingIT....a man Aggressive in bed, taking that lead... yet full of emotion, and tremendously GIVING...you hit the Jackpot!!...and you let all THAT slip through your fingers for 10 long yrs [email protected]#$% 

You 2 got A LOT of pent up Lovin' to make up for ! 



> I don't know why I did it, but two weeks ago I sat down and Googled, "How do I make myself want sex." And I ended up at TAL on a thread written by an LD woman who desperately, desperately wanted her drive back. I started looking around, and FINALLY realized what my H was saying, and what he has been going through.


 Funny ...how our loved ones can talk till they are blue in the face but it sometimes takes another's poured out story to penetrate ...Some google searches seem "destiny" .




> Some of those elements are our story, too. Mostly motherhood and other priorities. Um, but not the repression. We had ten years of serous kink before we got married. And guess what? This dirty girl is baaaa-aaack!


 The fact we DIDN'T experience the KINK... (the most was him trying to give me oral & I was thinking "Ewe, how can he stand that & would push his head away)....God we were BORING looking back.... is probably WHY it felt like a Niagra Falls RUSH to me, like a whole new World of undiscovered, uncharted experiences lay before me, so I grabbed him & he had to hold on for the ride !! Most exciting time in our Marriage really. And I'm still here yakking about it 4 yrs later....


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> Her attitude was similar in some respects to what LadyOfTheLake has described in another thread. i.e. That sex is simply a treat like candy or icing on the cake. It is not really a need and once you are parents, there are more important things to attend to. Anything less is childish. In this, I think she may have been mirroring some of the dysfunction in her parent's marriage. From what I can tell, her mother thought exactly the same way.


I can relate to that a little--sex just seemed like another thing to have to cram into the day, and I felt like I already had enough on my to-do list. 




ocotillo said:


> I could allow myself to feel resentful, but _I choose not to_. I'm not a Christian, but I think there's a lot of wisdom in the saying, "_Love does not keep a record of injury_" Life is too short and we're both closing in on six-zero. I'm not going to screw up what's left.
> 
> I'm sorry about the guilt you're feeling, but what's done is done and can't be undone. If your husband is willing to forgive, forget and move on, please don't allow past mistakes to continue to harm both of you.
> 
> We've talked about that aspect and she's apologized in tears. Revisiting the subject simply gets cruel after awhile.


My husband has a very similar attitude. He's not going to add bitterness to his burdens. And it's been his ability to forgive and accept with grace and compassion that really, really brought home how much he must love me. It made this change in our marriage sort of feel spiritual for me. 



ocotillo said:


> Unlike sex, there has never been any argument that conversation is a need in marriage and we've not suffered too much in that regard. Since she is a conservative, Christian fundamentalist and I'm liberal, Jewish and agnostic we both mastered the art of talking around the 'elephants in the room' that would lead to fights. Sex eventually fell into that category. I would say the quality of the conversation improved a lot with that particular elephant gone though.


Wow. I thought my husband were so different from one another. I'm in awe. I'm not sure I could make that work! Good on both of you.




ocotillo said:


> Yes I feel close to my wife. More so than in years. Sex is not just a physical release. It has a major impact on how you think and feel.


No truer words. Thanks for sharing.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mrs. SA, Mr. Ocotillo and Mrs. GettingIt should collaborate to write a self-help book "how to escape a sexless marriage", for the benefit of all those sexless people.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I so want my husband to not only be never able to dwell on it, but for it to fade so far into his memory that he would be unable to recall the hurt if he tried. I know that is asking a lot--maybe it's impossible--but it gives me something to focus on from day to day.


Give it time. I think that's the case for us too. Things have been good for about 8 months. That's after years of not good. I think in 5 or 10 years time it will be a distant memory.



GettingIt said:


> My husband is worried that it will be the guilt that will drive me to have sex with him when the desire isn't strong. It has always been very, very important to him that my enthusiasm and motivation for sex comes from desire. We've made a pact that when I feel guilty, I'll give him hugs.


I'm not quite as caught up in it as your husband, BUT, my wife is definitely showing lots of desire.



GettingIt said:


> I hope you guys still talk; even if it's not about sex. I think not talking leads to not doing other things which leads to not having sex.


Yes, it's not just intense like it was a while ago. We still talk but there aren't painful, difficult things to hash out.



GettingIt said:


> When I read that I smiled; so many HD folks who have gone through the pain seem bitter beyond recall. It's nice to read a tender comment about a former LD partner.
> 
> I'm glad you did. This is the firs thing I read this morning, and it put me in a good frame of mind to start my day.


:smthumbup:


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Except that venting at the poster can be valuable in seeing the hurt and pain their actions have caused. A spouse, out a love, may have difficulty showing that, knowing that it will hurt their partner. So they may not fully reveal that, or may not show the full emotion behind their statements.
> 
> So I think these posts can be useful in helping someone like the OP really understand what her husband might be feeling.


That's a very solid argument Tall Average Guy.

A thread author could indeed derive a benefit from such 'vicarious venting'...and I had not considered that.

I will say though: 

My visceral feeling is that there is something wrong/unhealthy/unproductive about continuously unleashing pent-up vitriol and enmity upon an anonymous poster...especially if such activity ALWAYS serves as a substitute for addressing the REAL source/situation causing such ill-feeling...

If it becomes one's sole outlet (or crutch)--well, I find that problematic

Because the usefulness and insight the thread-originator receives, must ultimately and necessarily come _*at the expense*_ of the 'well-being' of the person whose venting and ranting remains misplaced 

For energy so employed can generate *no true redress *for the actual ills of their own situation (and that should be their ultimate goal)

{Note* none of this necessarily applies to this particular thread or JCD's post. But there are certainly examples in which I think such activity has become *HABITUAL*, and serves as a surrogate behavior for fixing one's own problem. And in those cases, I think it is quite self-detrimental}


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

if your husband still loves you, give it time. If you are consistent in your actions, he will trust you again, eventually. I say "if he still loves you", because in these situations it's very easy for the man to fall out of love. Like me. The toy is broken.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *ocotilla said *: Her attitude was similar in some respects to what LadyOfTheLake has described in another thread. i.e. That sex is simply a treat like candy or icing on the cake. It is not really a need and once you are parents, there are more important things to attend to. Anything less is childish. In this,* I think she may have been mirroring some of the dysfunction in her parent's marriage*. From what I can tell, her mother thought exactly the same way.


How very important for our children to see happiness/ the Romantic attachment of their parents.. ...nothing worse than them growing up with the message of only singles are "getting it on" with 's on their faces....while marriage & parenting = a Miserable existence...no wonder noone wants to get married these days. 



> *Since she is a conservative, Christian fundamentalist and I'm liberal, Jewish and agnostic* we both mastered the art of talking around the 'elephants in the room' that would lead to fights. Sex eventually fell into that category


 - that is amazing you even managed to stay together...A fundamenatlist of any sort.... too much black & white [email protected]#$% ... God Bless you!



> No - And her brand of Christianity teaches that masturbation is a sin :scratchhead:


 I BET she was LOW DRIVE on top of it all -because I always felt it was dirty too ...forbidden/ wrong..." I was a bad girl" clouded my mind .... (I do blame religious indoctrination on this) but there was just no way to Keep from doing that [email protected]#$ It was too powerful / the drive too strong....and really, who is going to know. Me & husband had 6 kids before he learned I masterbated (then he told me he didn't our whole marriage but waited for me!)....we were both shocked ...... talk about ridiculous!

That was the only subject in this world I would have outright LIED about -or turned BEET RED if someone asked me in our early years. Just toooooo taboo to go there.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

IndiaInk said:


> I will say though:
> 
> My visceral feeling is that there is something wrong/unhealthy/unproductive about continuously unleashing pent-up vitriol and enmity upon an anonymous poster...especially if such activity ALWAYS serves as a substitute for addressing the REAL source/situation causing such ill-feeling...
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with any of that. The venting can be helpful, until it isn't, for both the OP and to the poster.


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## wayne81 (Mar 12, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> If I were your husband, after 10 years of sex drought, I wouldn't feel much of anything, maybe a truckload or resentment. I'd accept the sex but there's no way I would believe it signified any lasting change. You've spent 10 years making yourself this man's tormentor and enemy. It'll take more than a little slap and tickle to get beyond that If he had spent the last 10 years punching you in the face, you would you believe his sudden sweetness? All those times you rolled over instead of taking care of your husband, you told him he wasn't worth 20 minutes of your time; that he was undesirable, unattractive, unappreciated, and above all, unloved. It'll take time to get over that.


I have to say that I can totally relate here. Last year things were somewhat better, but so far this year we are basically back to once a month, and I bet you can't guess when!

Last week she just flat out told me that she was about to go crazy and needed it, and of course, I obliged, but it left me feeling resentful that when I try to express my needs they are discounted as trivial. 

That's a bit of a trap...not getting the connection you need and being afraid to say no when the opportunity comes around.

A few days after that encounter I initiated (because I felt like it for a change) and things were good, but that has been several days ago now. 

Sometimes I just want to be taken care of, to feel important, and I must not know how to get that message across very well.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

wayne81 said:


> I have to say that I can totally relate here. Last year things were somewhat better, but so far this year we are basically back to once a month, and I bet you can't guess when!
> 
> Last week she just flat out told me that she was about to go crazy and needed it, and of course, I obliged, but it left me feeling resentful that when I try to express my needs they are discounted as trivial.
> 
> ...


Yes, that about describes what my husband was going through with me. 

Have you told her, "Sometimes I just want to be taken care of, to feel important"? Although my husband tried to tell me many times why sex was important, he didn't talk much about why he needed it from me and what that meant to him emotionally. How his sense of self worth and worth as a husband was dependent on my accepting him sexually. 

My husband was a true gentleman through all his years of rejection, and we still connected sexually when 1) I was feeling physical desire and 2) there hadn't been any tension between us of late. I couldn't have sex with him if I thought he was mad at me. That made me feel horribly used. 

(It's weird, in our 20's, for the first ten years of our relationship, we argued a lot, and heatedly, then we had terrific make up sex. What happened to the make up sex in our 30's? I think, in part, with three kids, sexual spontaneity was pretty rare. We had more time to stew and brew over our hurts, and that started to show in the bedroom.)

My husband didn't turn me down when I wanted sex a few times a month, either. I asked him about that, and he admitted that he always was a sucker for hope. Sex would be great and passionate because we both were into it, we'd feel wonderful afterwards, what's not to love? He acknowledges that he perhaps should have learned his lesson, but he never did, and that is probably what allowed me to come around in the end. 

Honestly, it was hearing it from other men on TAL--what no sex with the women they love was doing to them--that triggered a change in me. I love my husband and let petty feelings and insecurities and misunderstandings put up a wall around my desire for him. It was realizing that I was his equal, sexually, that brought all desire rushing back. I remembered that I had as much to give in the bedroom as he did, and that what I did in the bedroom made a real difference in is life. I realized that he'd given me so much thought, tried to figure me out, always strove to fix our sex life for YEARS. 

I'm not sure what the rest of your relationship is with your life, but if your situation is truly like mine I'd say take a harder look at how you can start to show her how you care and love her and only her. My husband was never much of a gift and flower and romantic guy, but I loved it when he'd surprise me with something. I know he was to worn down by the end of those ten years to really woo me, but I think that's one of the things I'd been holding out for: some non-sexual wooing that I could tell he'd put some real thought and effort into. 

Again, I don't have any idea what the rest of your marriage is like. But I think it's good that you are still trying. When I look back on the past ten years and really understood how hard my husband was trying to make me understand why he needed a sex life with me, and how patient he was, I fall in love with him all over again. 

Peace to you.


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## Mr Wolf (Mar 1, 2012)

> Honestly, it was hearing it from other men on TAL--what no sex with the women they love was doing to them--that triggered a change in me.


This is what's frustrating for men in this situation. We repeatedly talk to our wives and explain how the lack of non-sexual affection and a lack of sex where she is active and engaged and lack of a displayed desire for us makes us feel (lack of connectedness, unloved, undesired, etc.) but they don't get it until someone else says the same thing. I suspect they think we share these things as a way to manipulate them into sex. 



> I love my husband and *let petty feelings and insecurities and misunderstandings put up a wall around my desire for him.* It was realizing that I was his equal, sexually, that brought all desire rushing back.


I applaud you because most women are loathe to admit they don't desire their husbands or let things unrelated to their husbands get in the way. I will admit it is impossible for me to believe that I am loved but not desired. For ME, those two are one and the same.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Is it really necessary for a spouse to explain why they are in pain and why they need what they need? If they are valued at all, shouldn't just seeing them in misery be enough motivation? I don't understand why my wife wants 90% of what she wants. I can tell when she's unhappy. If she's important to me, her needs are important (even if I don't understand them).


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Mr Wolf said:


> This is what's frustrating for men in this situation. We repeatedly talk to our wives and explain how the lack of non-sexual affection and a lack of sex where she is active and engaged and lack of a displayed desire for us makes us feel (lack of connectedness, unloved, undesired, etc.) but they don't get it until someone else says the same thing. * I suspect they think we share these things as a way to manipulate them into sex. *



This for sure. For many years I thought my husband wanting to "connect" was just psychobabble intended to manipulate me for sex. It's still my default reaction. Only through many years and a lot of reading did it eventually click. But no amount of HIM explaining it would work because coming from him it was just game. To me, it was just him saying whatever he thought he had to say to get me to submit. 




> I applaud you because most women are loathe to admit they don't desire their husbands or let things unrelated to their husbands get in the way. I will admit it is impossible for me to believe that I am loved but not desired. For ME, those two are one and the same.


And I didn't understand why my husband couldn't be content with the fact that I loved him but had no desire for him. What difference did it make? Love is love, lust is lust. They are two totally different things.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Mr Wolf said:


> This is what's frustrating for men in this situation. We repeatedly talk to our wives and explain how the lack of non-sexual affection and a lack of sex where she is active and engaged and lack of a displayed desire for us makes us feel (lack of connectedness, unloved, undesired, etc.) but they don't get it until someone else says the same thing. I suspect they think we share these things as a way to manipulate them into sex.


I've repeatedly asked my husband not to do certain things because it makes me feel devalued or to do certain things because it makes me feel like I "matter" or that I'm special to him. I've made about as much headway over the past ten years as he had. 

But the difference is in how my life was affected vs how his was being affected. My thinking was that I learned to live with the fact that my H just wasn't going to budge on some things, and I figured he could do the same. I'd learned not to let his behavior make me miserable, he should learn to do the same. What I didn't realize was the depth to which he was suffering emotionally. I mean, I felt really bad when he forgot our 10th anniversary, and I sometimes got down over the fact that he never did anything to acknowledge Valentines Day or birthdays or Christmas unless I bugged him. And who wants gifts that you have to bug of people? But I'd eventually get over my hurt and just accept the fact that romance wasn't his thing. 

I know, I know: romance might have been his thing if he'd felt loved and desired. I think we're going to both end up so, so much happier with a a marriage that is FUN. 



LadyOfTheLake said:


> This for sure. For many years I thought my husband wanting to "connect" was just psychobabble intended to manipulate me for sex. It's still my default reaction. Only through many years and a lot of reading did it eventually click. But no amount of HIM explaining it would work because coming from him it was just game. To me, it was just him saying whatever he thought he had to say to get me to submit.
> 
> And I didn't understand why my husband couldn't be content with the fact that I loved him but had no desire for him. What difference did it make? Love is love, lust is lust. They are two totally different things.


What she said. 




Mr Wolf said:


> I applaud you because most women are loathe to admit they don't desire their husbands or let things unrelated to their husbands get in the way. I will admit it is impossible for me to believe that I am loved but not desired. For ME, those two are one and the same.


Sometimes life and circumstances legitimately get in the way of a good sex life--we are complex creatures, psychologically. Often we know something isn't right, but either we don't recognize what it is, or we don't want to do the hard work to fix it.


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## Mr Wolf (Mar 1, 2012)

GettingIt - I'm curious, what do you think your reaction would have been if your H had come to you to say he was filing for divorce because he couldn't take it any more, you weren't hearing him and he wanted out?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Mr Wolf said:


> GettingIt - I'm curious, what do you think your reaction would have been if your H had come to you to say he was filing for divorce because he couldn't take it any more, you weren't hearing him and he wanted out?


We'd probably have divorced as amicably as possible. I was unhappy, too--mostly with his constant unhappiness. He just seemed permanently dissatisfied with EVERYTHING in life. I'd asked him multiple times to go to marriage counseling with me, we'd talked til we were blue in the face about our problems. I'd gone to therapy and got help with how to deal with him, but nothing was improving for him. It was always a merry go round of the same old issues. I guess if he'd asked for a divorce, I'd have been sad, because I loved him and the kids would have been devastated, but I also would have thought that it as time to move on. I was in a place where I was happy--very happy--with my life, and had even made peace with the type of marriage it seemed we had. However, I wouldn't want to be married to someone who believed he his unhappiness was being caused by me.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Hello Mrs. GettingIt, so how's things going between you and your hubby now? Any progress, or have you two been able to solve your further problems? We pray for your success, and have a nice weekend!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Hello Mrs. GettingIt, so how's things going between you and your hubby now? Any progress, or have you two been able to solve your further problems? We pray for your success, and have a nice weekend!


It's like I'm in a different marriage. My husband and I were necking between some household projects this morning and he said, "How does it feel to be 22 again?" Really quite indescribable.

I did try to describe the change to my best girlfriends, but their reactions left me second guessing myself. They have spent the past ten years hearing me describe a very difficult marriage, and were sort of angry to hear that I'd been the one to approach my husband and make a change that benefited him immensely. I've been thinking about it for a few days, but I don't know what to say to tell them how I feel and convince them that I'm not capitulating to someone who, from their point of view, has been neglectful of my needs for so long. I still expect my H and I will work on issues in our marriage, but I also expect that, with intimacy, the issues will be less rocky to resolve. 

Anyway, you are so kind to follow up. Thank you. It's been a wonderful, exhausting week. Yesterday I got flowers, something my H has not been inspired to spontaneously get for me in . . . well, forever. We are still talking a lot about this and about our marriage, so I hope that continues. And sex every day, at least once a day, and better than I remembered it ever being.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mrs. GettingIt, sounds like you two are on the way to a better, more loving marriage. And daily sex? Wow awesome. Consider yourself blessed! Forget about those people who never walked on your shoes, but gave you hurtful comments. You fixed what was needed to be fixed, and now you're reaping the rewards!


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> It's like I'm in a different marriage. My husband and I were necking between some household projects this morning and he said, "How does it feel to be 22 again?" Really quite indescribable.
> 
> I did try to describe the change to my best girlfriends, but their reactions left me second guessing myself. They have spent the past ten years hearing me describe a very difficult marriage, and were sort of angry to hear that I'd been the one to approach my husband and make a change that benefited him immensely. I've been thinking about it for a few days, but I don't know what to say to tell them how I feel and convince them that I'm not capitulating to someone who, from their point of view, has been neglectful of my needs for so long. I still expect my H and I will work on issues in our marriage, but I also expect that, with intimacy, the issues will be less rocky to resolve.
> 
> Anyway, you are so kind to follow up. Thank you. It's been a wonderful, exhausting week. Yesterday I got flowers, something my H has not been inspired to spontaneously get for me in . . . well, forever. We are still talking a lot about this and about our marriage, so I hope that continues. And sex every day, at least once a day, and better than I remembered it ever being.


I find the response from your best girlfriends interesting. How are their marriages? Is everyone at a standstill with their arms folded convinced that they are right? You know, there's always exceptions, but I'm going to speculate and bet that a large majority of men would move mountains for their wife if they had your newfound understanding of men and what makes us tick. Hell I know I would.

It makes me happy to make her happy, and I don't view it as a chore. What usually happens though is that small issues and annoyances inevitably arise in marriage, and the first thing to go is sex. "Screw it, he's not getting any", is the response, either overtly or subliminally. And then starts the vicious downward spiral.

Once it is painfully evident that she is either not into you, and/or using sex as a punishment or reward, the resentment keeps building and at some point there is NOTHING nice I want to do for her.

Again I'm generalizing, but many times we've read the stories of what the man needs to do to meet her needs and he jumps through hoops, banging his head against the wall to make changes to get his wife to respond - but to no avail. And why is that? Because her mindset is completely backwards.

To have the mindset that you're giving love to your husband - not that he's taking something from you - is HUGE. He will be able to see and feel the difference and he would literally die for you.

This is just one man's opinion, but women really have no idea how much power and control they have in creating the relationship they want with their spouse. I think you shouldn't doubt yourself one bit and keep doing what you're doing. If you have a good man, he will not let you down and if he's not, you should already know that in your gut and probably wouldn't have taken this course of action.

I commend you and am envious!!


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

You weren't in the mood for sex for 10 years.

You didn't care that your hubby needs sex and the torment you alone put him through.

And now you suddenly got your sex drive back and everything is supposed to be great just like that?

I would of checked out a long time ago. Still friends and have good conversations but that's it.

You should of gone to the Dr, got everything checked out, hormones, shots, meds, etc. gym to get the juices flowing, but for 10 years?

"YOU OWE HIM LARGE for the next 10 years" and I mean sex every day, 1+ times each day for the next 10 years and any sex he wants!!!! And he will then forget about it.

I just don't understand how some women can do this to their men they are married to and supposedly love, just horrible.

Imagine no emotional support or cuddling for 10 years from their hubby. Then all of a sudden, I got my emotional support and cuddling back and now my wife is supposed to be receptive and everything is okay like the last 10 years never happened........not reality. She would of moved on long ago and you can't blame her.

10 years of little to no sex.....I'm out of line.......no. Like I said, marriages are 50/50, and that means, men need more the sex and women need sex as well but the emotional. I am not personally attacking her but 10 years with no consequences......really?!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Out of line CuddleBug IMNSHO.

You're projecting your anger. I suggest you re-read the WHOLE thread.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

NeverAgain12 said:


> I find the response from your best girlfriends interesting. How are their marriages? Is everyone at a standstill with their arms folded convinced that they are right? You know, there's always exceptions, but I'm going to speculate and bet that a large majority of men would move mountains for their wife if they had your newfound understanding of men and what makes us tick. Hell I know I would.
> 
> It makes me happy to make her happy, and I don't view it as a chore. What usually happens though is that small issues and annoyances inevitably arise in marriage, and the first thing to go is sex. "Screw it, he's not getting any", is the response, either overtly or subliminally. And then starts the vicious downward spiral.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I did try to describe the change to my best girlfriends, but their reactions left me second guessing myself. They have spent the past ten years hearing me describe a very difficult marriage, and were sort of angry to hear that I'd been the one to approach my husband and make a change that benefited him immensely. I've been thinking about it for a few days, but I don't know what to say to tell them how I feel and convince them that I'm not capitulating to someone who, from their point of view, has been neglectful of my needs for so long. I still expect my H and I will work on issues in our marriage, but I also expect that, with intimacy, the issues will be less rocky to resolve.


Please don't second guess yourself!

You're happy now right? Why would you want to go back? 

This was a cycle. Neither really knows where it started since it grew from a cycle of minor, innocent offenses till it grew out of hand. As you've figured out, much of his grumpiness came from a lack of sex. That lack of sex was caused in a large part by his behavior.

You broke the cycle. In my marriage it was me. But so what? What good does it do to keep score? How about just be happy with your new found love and passion.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

What I meant too euphemistically perhaps was this: From what I understand, most women don't get aroused until the husband has warmed them up significantly with foreplay. It's a 'chore' or not panted over...until suddenly it isn't and the wife is dripping to continue.

this is not 'forcing' a woman to have sex, but her 'mood', her 'desire' doesn't turn on for them like that of a man, where a stiff breeze or the Levi's rubbing the right way across his penis makes him ready. She needs a bit of tinkering to get the engine running.

So by him WAITING for you to be panting all over him...he was setting himself up for failure, IMO. He self limited himself.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

JCD said:


> So by him WAITING for you to be panting all over him...he was setting himself up for failure, IMO. He self limited himself.


Which can be better than being rejected over and over again. One gets so beaten down that they are will to take little or no intimacy because it's less painful than to be rejected yet again.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I am actually glad you guys worked it out and yes, I read all the posts here.

- BC probably wasn't the culprit
- hormones probably weren't the issue either
- wasn't abused as a child
- not recovering from a disease and from meds

I really do wish you guys the best but I hope "karma" and "what goes around always comes around" doesn't pay you a visit down the road.

The saying "do unto others what you want done unto yourself" comes to mind.

I would like to hear your hubbies response in how he dealt with losing 10 years of his prime? From a man's perspective and all.

He is a bigger man than I and many here, in forgiving you.

Wish you the best. 


And what also worries me. Say your hubby hits 50 years old and his test levels drop off and his sex drive plummets and he doesn't see it as an issue and for the next 10 years........we'll honey, you did it to me and it wasn't a big deal to you, so why is it now a big deal for me? Something to think about........hope this doesn't happen to you, but like the old saying goes.....karma is a xxxxx, you know.....


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

I think you're helping me in a way CuddleBug.

How do I know I've forgiven my wife? Because hearing this makes me not want to see that come true for her:



CuddleBug said:


> And what also worries me. Say your hubby hits 50 years old and his test levels drop off and his sex drive plummets and he doesn't see it as an issue and for the next 10 years........we'll honey, you did it to me and it wasn't a big deal to you, so why is it now a big deal for me? Something to think about........hope this doesn't happen to you, but like the old saying goes.....karma is a xxxxx, you know.....


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> I think you're helping me in a way CuddleBug.
> 
> How do I know I've forgiven my wife? Because hearing this makes me not want to see that come true for her:



From what I've learned on TAM, communication is key. My wifee knows that I have a HD and I need sex at least 3x every week and then I'm good. It's not ideal, but its compromise and I'm cool with that but when the sex is 1x month, like it recently was, we don't talk or do much together. My wife gets all worried at that point and "forces" me to the bedroom for sex and is really into to it then. I see it as giving me just enough sex to keep me here sex. I had issues orgasming tonight and getting in the mood and I'm a HD guy because when I don't get sex for 1 or more months, I lose interest. Use it or lose it does apply here. Communicating what her fantasies are and what turns her on is very important. If she tells him what works for her and he does these things, no issues then. But if she didn't tell him, he'll never know and she won't be in the mood and he sees it as she doesn't care about the sex life and it spirals downhill to affairs and divorce in many situations.

But not for her, and we all can learn from this but we need to hear her hubbies "mans" perspective on this.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> You should of gone to the Dr, got everything checked out, hormones, shots, meds, etc. gym to get the juices flowing, but for 10 years?


I went to two doctors--my gynecologist and my PCP. My gyn told me that with women, it's "all in the head," and there was nothing she could offer me. My PCP did blood work (all was normal), diagnosed me with SAD, advised me on how to treat it (helpful, but didn't help my libido.) I'm very fit and active (it helps immensely with stress.) I really did do all that I could think of, and when I felt like I couldn't do anymore, I asked my husband to go to therapy with me for help. He would not go. And that is where it stood for a few years. Last year some things improved in his life, and he had slowly started to make some changes to improve his own health and happiness, and I think that this had a lot to do with my being able to make the changes I've made. 



CuddleBug said:


> "YOU OWE HIM LARGE for the next 10 years" and I mean sex every day, 1+ times each day for the next 10 years and any sex he wants!!!! And he will then forget about it.


We don't have this kind of relationship. I think that is why we can now heal and move on. 



CuddleBug said:


> I just don't understand how some women can do this to their men they are married to and supposedly love, just horrible.
> 
> Imagine no emotional support or cuddling for 10 years from their hubby. Then all of a sudden, I got my emotional support and cuddling back and now my wife is supposed to be receptive and everything is okay like the last 10 years never happened........not reality. She would of moved on long ago and you can't blame her.


You make it sound as though I yanked the intimacy all of a sudden, out of the blue. Marriages are complex, organic, living relationships. The demise of intimacy was on both our shoulders, and we struggled through its loss together. What I learned was crucial to getting it back. My husband would have done the same if he though he'd discovered the "key."



CuddleBug said:


> 10 years of little to no sex.....I'm out of line.......no. Like I said, marriages are 50/50, and that means, men need more the sex and women need sex as well but the emotional. I am not personally attacking her but 10 years with no consequences......really?!


What consequences do you think would be appropriate? My husband never burdened himself with bitterness and I guess it is by that grace that he does not feel the need to see his past suffering repaid by mine. 

I'm curious about your story, CuddleBug. Can you direct me to it somewhere on TAL?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

NeverAgain12 said:


> I find the response from your best girlfriends interesting. How are their marriages? Is everyone at a standstill with their arms folded convinced that they are right? You know, there's always exceptions, but I'm going to speculate and bet that a large majority of men would move mountains for their wife if they had your newfound understanding of men and what makes us tick. Hell I know I would.


They are all married and seem to be sexually compatible with their husbands. However, none of of them have been with their husbands for 20+ years like me (more like 4-6), one is on her second marriage, one has no children, the other does not have a sexual relationship with her husband (they are both LD). And although I love them and have relied heavily on them for emotional support over the years, they all seem to think that I'm the one who is always making concessions, trying to "figure things out," and not demanding anything of my H. I find it useful to try and put myself in my husband's shoes (for lots of issues, not just sex.) I think he does the same for me. I'm not interested in keeping score--just finding what works. 



NeverAgain12 said:


> It makes me happy to make her happy, and I don't view it as a chore. What usually happens though is that small issues and annoyances inevitably arise in marriage, and the first thing to go is sex.


Yes.



NeverAgain12 said:


> "Screw it, he's not getting any", is the response, either overtly or subliminally. And then starts the vicious downward spiral.


I have to say, I'v never "punished" my H by withholding sex. If I was angry at him, there was simply no desire, and he hated me to have sex with him under those circumstances. He was very good at telling the difference between the "real thing" and "duty sex." Granted, we didn't do enough work to diffuse our resentment and anger and get back to intimacy. 



NeverAgain12 said:


> Once it is painfully evident that she is either not into you, and/or using sex as a punishment or reward, the resentment keeps building and at some point there is NOTHING nice I want to do for her.


Yes, this is where we stood for a long time. 



NeverAgain12 said:


> Again I'm generalizing, but many times we've read the stories of what the man needs to do to meet her needs and he jumps through hoops, banging his head against the wall to make changes to get his wife to respond - but to no avail. And why is that? Because her mindset is completely backwards.


Ultimately, it was changes my husband was making for himself (specifically his health and happiness) and for our family as a whole that made me start to think about his issue with my LD more. I think it was seeing him make changes that I'd wanted for years that made me WANT intimacy again. I'm glad he was able to start to work on himself FOR HIMSELF, because that prompted me to work on me again. I think if I felt like he was just "jumping through hoops," we'd still be back at square one. I didn't want his insincerity any more than he wanted mine. 



NeverAgain12 said:


> To have the mindset that you're giving love to your husband - not that he's taking something from you - is HUGE. He will be able to see and feel the difference and he would literally die for you.
> 
> This is just one man's opinion, but women really have no idea how much power and control they have in creating the relationship they want with their spouse. I think you shouldn't doubt yourself one bit and keep doing what you're doing. If you have a good man, he will not let you down and if he's not, you should already know that in your gut and probably wouldn't have taken this course of action.
> 
> I commend you and am envious!!


Thank you.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Which can be better than being rejected over and over again. One gets so beaten down that they are will to take little or no intimacy because it's less painful than to be rejected yet again.


Yes, this is what happened. The rejection had become harder to bear for him than no sex. He'd have happily worked as hard as need to "get me in the mood" if only I'd given him the opportunity. Which is why I denied him even the opportunity for so long.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> I would like to hear your hubbies response in how he dealt with losing 10 years of his prime? From a man's perspective and all.
> 
> But not for her, and we all can learn from this but we need to hear her hubbies "mans" perspective on this.


I'll ask him to explain it to me again and try to paraphrase what he tells me as best I can. He knows I'm on TAL, has read some posts, and I don't think he'd mind answering your questions.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

You are very fortunate to have a hubby like you do because in most situations, it wouldn't of ended well.

I hope he truly forgives you and moves on, I really do. But only time will tell. Talk is one thing, actions over time are another matter.

He may say he's okay with the last 10 years but that's a 10 year deficit that can't just be talked away. Expect bumps along the new road you are both traveling together and be prepared.

Otherwise, good for you guys. I hope you're rocking his world hard almost every day to the point he really isn't in the mood for sex because its too much.  :smthumbup:


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I'll ask him to explain it to me again and try to paraphrase what he tells me as best I can. He knows I'm on TAL, has read some posts, and I don't think he'd mind answering your questions.


If you don't mind, could you PM me. I really want to know his side of the situation and to learn from it, thx in advance.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

CB, I think it would be best if it was posted in this thread for everyone to learn from.

My wife and I went through a long dry spell. No fault of hers. I truly loved her and sex wasn't everything. I was causing the problems in our relationship and applaud her for hanging in there as long as she did! It's a two way street and is not always the woman's fault.

Getting it, you have a great husband and I'm very glad things are working out for you guys!


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If it was too personal, that's why I asked for the PM. But otherwise, sure, I too would like to see his post here. A lot could learn from this.

For me, 50% of the reason I got married was the physicality and sex, since I am a HD guy. If I was a LD guy, then it wouldn't matter I guess and I would put up with it for many years, etc.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Last year some things improved in his life, and he had slowly started to make some changes to improve his own health and happiness, and I think that this had a lot to do with my being able to make the changes I've made.


Ditto for us. I worked on breaking the cycle. I worked on understanding my wife's love languages, address resentments from long ago that she tried to communicate and I just didn't understand, calmly pointing out her sh!t tests when she did them instead of getting angry and escalating, getting myself in shape.....

Yeah a lot of stuff. I made sure I was a husband that she *REALLY* wanted to keep. Then I dropped the bomb that I'm not going to live the rest of my life this way.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Yes, this is what happened. The rejection had become harder to bear for him than no sex. He'd have happily worked as hard as need to "get me in the mood" if only I'd given him the opportunity. Which is why I denied him even the opportunity for so long.


What made it so hard on me was the way my wife was trying. She'd let me initiate, try a while and then stop me when she couldn't get into the mood.

It doesn't take too many times being worked up REALLY bad and then getting shot down to quit trying.

What kept me was that she was HD at times in her cycle. For up to a week a month she'd be all after me and we'd have awesome sex. GREAT sex like we did pre-kid. I can't understand these guys that went years with little sex. About 3 months and I'd be really seriously making plans to leave and by 6 months she'd have been served papers.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> What made it so hard on me was the way my wife was trying. She'd let me initiate, try a while and then stop me when she couldn't get into the mood.
> 
> It doesn't take too many times being worked up REALLY bad and then getting shot down to quit trying.
> 
> What kept me was that she was HD at times in her cycle. For up to a week a month she'd be all after me and we'd have awesome sex. GREAT sex like we did pre-kid. I can't understand these guys that went years with little sex. About 3 months and I'd be really seriously making plans to leave and by 6 months she'd have been served papers.


Same here--I think that fact that I had a few HD days each cycle was part of the reason that my husband could hang on all those years. We'd have sex a few times a month--sometimes mind-blowing sex--and he said that he was always such a sucker for hope after each of those sessions. 

I'm still planning on getting more feedback from him about how he made it through those years, what he did to cope, and if he ever contemplated getting out, etc. I'll share it here when I get it; I don't find it too personal. 

We've been rather busy with sex every day . . . finding time to talk is sometimes harder. But tonight is our night to focus only on each other, so maybe, just maybe, we'll stop screwing long enough to have a discussion.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Same here--I think that fact that I had a few HD days each cycle was part of the reason that my husband could hang on all those years. We'd have sex a few times a month--sometimes mind-blowing sex--and he said that he was always such a sucker for hope after each of those sessions.
> 
> I'm still planning on getting more feedback from him about how he made it through those years, what he did to cope, and if he ever contemplated getting out, etc. I'll share it here when I get it; I don't find it too personal.
> 
> *We've been rather busy with sex every day . . . finding time to talk is sometimes harder*. But tonight is our night to focus only on each other, so maybe, just maybe, we'll stop screwing long enough to have a discussion.


wow. Everyday? Good for you :smthumbup: Glad to hear thing works out for you, Mrs. OP.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I finally had a conversation with my husband to get, from "a man's perspective" how he dealt with "losing 10 years of his prime" (I think it was CuddleBug that asked for this perspective.) It wasn't an easy discussion, and it's put him in a very down mood. 

When our sex life first went south, after we had our first child, he said that he figured he try to help me out more. He could tell that I was overwhelmed (our first child was a very difficult, colicky, demanding baby who didn't sleep much.) He figured I was unhappy because I felt like I had too much to do and that he didn't help out enough. He tried different ways of trying to make me happy (usually by doing more to help around the house) over the first couple years, but our sex life didn't improve. 

Eventually, he says, he gave up on that and just tried to do what he thought was fair. I asked him why, after he stopped trying to help me, he didn't turn his attention to improving his life. The hard years with babies were over, we had tried to move on from some of the lingering resentments, I was finding ways to improve the balance in my own life. By this time, he said, he was working long hours at a job that caused him a great deal of stress, and that contributed to what he says he now realizes was depression. He was in a rut and didn't know how to dig out of it. He was overwhelmed with work, felt he had no emotional support from our marriage, and didn't have the time or energy to concentrate on himself. He said he might have had the wherewithal to start to work on himself if it had just been our marriage or just been the job--but both were a double whammy. 

It never occurred to him, he said, that he should look to doing things he considered selfish to improve our sex life. I don't blame him: he saw a harried, unhappy wife, and that is where he put his efforts. I appreciated those efforts, I thought he was being a good husband and father, but they didn't make me horny for him. 

He said he settled in to try and accept a life in which we lived as amicably as possible. He said he didn't want a divorce because of the kids and was willing to accept our sex life as it was (1-2x a month most of the time, but we had periods where that would improve to about once a week). He said he did look at porn and masturbate, but it wasn't any substitute for what he was missing, and it was easier to just let the desire die than to keep feeding it. 

As we talked about this tonight, we both came to the conclusion that there had been a general uptick in our relationship and our sex life in the past six months. He started a new career two and a half years ago that required him to be away M-F for the first two years, after which he could work at home. The transition to working at home was rocky, but it has steadily settled down. He started exercising again, has been taking more time to socialize and relax, and is generally less stressed out. He said he noticed that the sex was getting better and more regular. He was still trying to talk to me about getting it back to where he was happy with it, and at some point I decided to see what I could do to increase my desire. That is what led me to TAL, and that is what enabled me to take a look at what had become of intimacy in our marriage, what he had been going through for years, and what I was missing, too. 

It's not a really cut and dried answer, I know. The LD/HD blame game is not as simple as folks sometimes make it out to be. I fully recognize now the pain my husband was in, but I also know that we had created the problem together and were simply unable to dig out until there was a pretty major shift in our lives that had nothing to do with sex (I'm referring to my husband changing careers.) 

I did ask my husband why he was able to open up to me again and reestablish intimacy so willingly. He laughed and said it was probably his d*ck that had a lot to do with that, but also that we never had fallen into a no-sex relationship. He had something to go on, however meager it was. We were getting along well enough, and he said he figured he'd try and focus his energy elsewhere now that he had the time and reduced work stress. It was shortly after that that things improved. 

Talking about those years really took a toll on him tonight, though. It makes me sad to see him become so pensive after this type of conversation. I'll admit that it makes me nervous that he's ruminating over the hurt and isolation and loss that he felt. I'm not sure how much he blames me and how much he is able to temper that with trying to understand things from my perspective. I'd much rather be watching the movie that we had planned to watch, and then making love like we've done almost every night for the past month. It makes me tempted to never bring up those years again, to not worry about trying to figure them out, to just live in the moment and trust that things will be okay from now on. But I think that is what we have perhaps both lost: a sense of security in our intimacy. I don't think we'll ever take it for granted again.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Learn from the past. You have done that. Make the future better. You are doing that. Continue that action tonight. Nothing like an enthusiatic BJ to put the smile back on his face. :smthumbup:


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

But seriously, it's actually good that you give him an outlet for him to express how hurt he was. That's part of the recovery process. You don't have to dwell on it, but it helps you both to talk like this. Apologies over the past are hollow. But commitments like yours to make the present and future better are golden. Keep up the empathy and keep up the good work!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I was almost crying in reading that. I've been in your husband's shoes and the story of our marriage is similar. It's good you finally recognised the pain, but that will never go away for your husband. Concentrate on what's good, but the hurt will linger and linger. It's impossible to forget 10 years of sadness and misery. Some kind of barrier or defence mechanism will always be present. It will be difficult to demolish. But you can only try. 



GettingIt said:


> I finally had a conversation with my husband to get, from "a man's perspective" how he dealt with "losing 10 years of his prime" (I think it was CuddleBug that asked for this perspective.) It wasn't an easy discussion, and it's put him in a very down mood.
> 
> When our sex life first went south, after we had our first child, he said that he figured he try to help me out more. He could tell that I was overwhelmed (our first child was a very difficult, colicky, demanding baby who didn't sleep much.) He figured I was unhappy because I felt like I had too much to do and that he didn't help out enough. He tried different ways of trying to make me happy (usually by doing more to help around the house) over the first couple years, but our sex life didn't improve.
> 
> ...


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

After reading your hubby's side of the story, all I could is that you're a lucky woman, Mrs. OP, and your hubby is admirable. Enjoy your time with him while you can, be the best wife you can be for him.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> When our sex life first went south, after we had our first child.....


Wow. --A whole lot of familiar things there....


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Like anytime trust has been betrayed, it will take a long time of consistent results for your husband to truly believe that things have changed.

It's great that your libido has come back. However, carefully think about how you will act if it subsides again. It is so easy to say you will always be this way, but you don't know that for sure. 

I don't want this to discourage you, but I have a feeling that your current libido is a survival mechanism. I think you panicked when you finally realized how much pain your husband was in. Some part of your brain realized you could lose him and now it's increasing your libido to get him back.

Keep doing what you're doing, but also don't be surprised if your libido goes back to normal after a while. Even if it does, I think you have a good attitude. Even if you aren't desiring sex, I think you'll still be enthusiastic since you know it makes him happy.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

How much of a difference does it feel to have the libido and pleasure behind it versus before? I was hoping you could put that into words.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

treyvion said:


> How much of a difference does it feel to have the libido and pleasure behind it versus before? I was hoping you could put that into words.


I'm not sure I can express it in words, but I'll try. 

It's made a huge, huge difference in my marriage. We are giddy in love again. We want to do things together, we are playful with one another, we spend a lot more time just hanging out together. The emotional connection that has been rekindled through sex is even better and deeper than I remember it being. Just lying in his arms is so incredibly blissful. We have had sex almost every day at least once a day for the past month. I think about it all the time. We've tired new things, I've been really, really into finding new ways to give him pleasure and he's found new ways for me. Mostly it is about the extreme intimacy, though. To want someone like I want my H, to be wanted like he wants me . . . Yeah, we sit around and gaze into each others eyes now. We make love with powerful emotional intensity. I realized just today what a gift it is to have the opportunity to be allowed inside another individual like this--as close to the "self" of someone else that you can possibly get . He'll let me in as far as I wish to travel, and I will strive to do the same for him. It's not always comfortable, but I realized there is perhaps no greater journey possible in my life on this earth. 

It has made a huge, huge difference in our family life. We are both more relaxed, less stressed, and more united in our parenting. We are kinder to each other, more patient with the kids, and less likely to let little things set us off. We communicate better and more deliberately. We quickly talk to resolve arguments (though I think we've had exactly one in the past month). We consider our relationship with each other and our children more deliberately, too. There is less taking for granted, more nurturing, more understanding and forgiveness. 

It's made a huge, huge difference in my life, personally. I'd venture to say it's been transcendent. The sexual part of my selfhood had been missing for years. I lost it when I became a mother, I think, and my entire existence was redefined. Over the past five or six years I fought to get "me" back in so many ways, but I never fought to get that part back--I think because my H and I had so many resentments and difficulties between us by then. I saw sex as something he wanted and demanded from me, not as something I owned in my own right. I now feel more alive, more complete, more balanced and focused. It's allowed me to remember other parts of my selfhood that I've neglected and that I'm determined to find again. I want to find a way to revive old dreams, to do the things I'd planned to do with my life, the things I studied for and was passionate about. It really has been a "return to me." I thought I was so happy, but now I see that there was huge piece missing. I was very good at deluding myself, I now realize with not some little humility. 

I've read so many posts on TAL in which husbands are frustrated with wives who claim they can do without sex--both in the bedroom and as a part of their being. Many posters talk about all the things they do to try and meet their wives' needs, or to man up, work on themselves, etc. One of the things I've not seen discussed much is how to get a woman to desire to be, to strive to be, a sexual being in her own right, and for reasons that don't have anything to do with pleasing her husband. 

Sexuality is an ancient part of all of us, but it seems like it is easily suppressed, just like so many of our other ancient connections to humanity and nature. When I found it again, I felt a shift so huge and primal that I was barely able to contain it. It flowed positively into every aspect of my life. For me, it righted an imbalance that I'd been living with for a decade. I wake up every morning now feeling different both physically and mentally. I am in tune to my world and to the natural world (which is a strong spiritual/religious force in my life) more deeply than ever before, and every day I make a new discovery about my place in nature and this universe. The feeling borders on euphoria at least once a day. 

As I said, it is hard to describe without sounding theatrical. I've overcome with excitement and with peace at the same time. I wish I knew how to give this feeling to others--not for the sake of marriage, but for the sake of the self.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I've read so many posts on TAL in which husbands are frustrated with wives who claim they can do without sex--both in the bedroom and as a part of their being. Many posters talk about all the things they do to try and meet their wives' needs, or to man up, work on themselves, etc. One of the things I've not seen discussed much is how to get a woman to desire to be, to strive to be, a sexual being in her own right, and for reasons that don't have anything to do with pleasing her husband.


If you were to give advice to these men, what would you say?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> If you were to give advice to these men, what would you say?


It's probably not what you want to hear, but I'd probably say to not give up on your wife, to seek as much happiness as you can in your life (in the marriage and personally), to stay healthy and encourage health in your spouse. 

I realize that in some cases, men reach the point where they are unhappy, resentful and bitter beyond recall, and it's not fair to ask these men to stay in miserable marriages. But there have been male posters who seem bewildered by their wives' lack of sexuality more than angered by it, men who really love their wives and want intimacy with them--not because that's what they deserve as a husband, or what they are owed in a marriage, or what they had been used to getting before marriage. They want the connection with the woman they love, and all the positive things that intimacy brings to a life and a relationship. 

I read the stories here in TAL and realize more and more that there isn't one approach that would work for all men who long for a return of sensual, emotional, mutually giving sex. But it does seem to me that if a woman cannot realize her sexuality and appreciate it as hers and hers alone, she won't be able to share it with her husband in a way that he finds truly, intimately fulfilling. Women sometimes feel uncomfortable with their bodies, and this stifles their freedom to feel sexual. Or they feel at odds with the sexual person the used to be as a result of motherhood, or some other life changing event. They might be holding on to old resentments and WANT to let them go, but not know how, feeling at the mercy of negative feelings. When we become disconnected with who we are used to being, it can affect our sexual selves. 

I suppose a husband could try and look for ways that his wife might be feeling disconnected from her sexual self. He could try to talk to her about how she regards herself sexually. Where does she feel she has control, where does she feel she has lost control, and how would she *choose* to feel sexually if she didn't have any issues with her own body or her relationship to him. Being sexual, to me, starts with the self and THEN flows into a relationship from there. Sometimes it is the relationship that is stifling a sexually self-aware person into becoming LD, but I bet more often than not a woman who has lost her HD drive has lost her own sense of the sexual. I just don't know what a husband can do to get her to see this. I came to realize it had been missing AFTER I became sexual with my husband again after ten years. I didn't decide to go looking for my lost sexuality, but finding and restoring and realizing its importance was perhaps the most valuble thing that happened as a result of us restoring sexual intimacy. 

I really feel like I'm not able to give you a very satisfactory answer here. I think it has to do with learning a lesson about the self--and that is something someone else can't teach. I do know that I love, love feeling sexual now, every day. You could try to encourage your wife to do things that make her feel sexual and see if that awakens her connection to that part of her psyche. I used to talk myself out of those things because they were time consuming or cost money and I didn't think my husband would value them. Now I try to make doing things to feel connected to my sexuality a priority. I meditate, spend more time doing things that feel sensual (getting a massage or taking a long yoga class, for example), I allow myself to become sexually aroused several times a day. I have been consciously practicing letting go of inhibitions (I'll have sex with lights on and remember that my H thinks I'm perfect and beautiful even if I don't feel that way.)

All women are different, but I can't help but think that the sexual is a very vulnerable aspect of the self that, when damaged, is in peril of not being recovered because it CAN be lived without. Women CAN feel happy without it. Once lost or damaged there is sometimes little incentive to go looking for it or to work on repairing it because the benefits are not realized until after it is restored. I can't convince a woman who feels perfectly satisfied with her life that she is missing out on something utterly spectacular and life changing. Why would she listen to me? I wouldn't have listened. I think that I wanted to change for other reasons, and those reasons led me to sex and intimacy, and that led me to this total reawakening that I so, so hope all the wives of you loving and patient husbands out there have.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mrs. GettingIt,

Would it be correct if I summarize your thought-provoking article above, by saying this: it is not the efforts of the husband that matters the most, but the willingness of the wife herself to make adjustments? Does this means that no matter what efforts the husband does, if the wife simply don't have the willingness to "get it", then all his efforts will have no guarantee to be successful?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mrs. GettingIt,
> 
> Would it be correct if I summarize your thought-provoking article above, by saying this: it is not the efforts of the husband that matters the most, but the willingness of the wife herself to make adjustments? Does this means that no matter what efforts the husband does, if the wife simply don't have the willingness to "get it", then all his efforts will have no guarantee to be successful?


LOL john_lord I guess my long winded reply really could do with some rendering down!

Um, yes, I don't think that you summary is incorrect, but the devil is in the details, hence my verbosity.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Ah, but Mrs. GettingIt, here is the part where things get tricky. If (according to you) my conclusion is not incorrect, then I really cannot give this advice to husbands in sexless marriages: "Man, just wait patiently and be a loving husband, and endure sexless life, until your wife is 'getting it'". I certainly cannot give that advice easily. Because (1) there are no guarantee that their wives will be able to 'getting it' like you did, (2) no matter what effort they're doing, it will not be successful unless their wives 'getting it'. 

The best advice I can give is "Man, if you want a divorce I won't stop you. But at least you should ask yourself first, is your marriage worth saving? Don't stay just because of false hope, but don't give up too easily either"..

I hope my second conclusion is acceptable to you as well, yes?

BTW, thank you very much for this enlightening discussion!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Ah, but Mrs. GettingIt, here is the part where things get tricky. If (according to you) my conclusion is not incorrect, then I really cannot give this advice to husbands in sexless marriages: "Man, just wait patiently and be a loving husband, and endure sexless life, until your wife is 'getting it'". I certainly cannot give that advice easily. Because (1) there are no guarantee that their wives will be able to 'getting it' like you did, (2) no matter what effort they're doing, it will not be successful unless their wives 'getting it'.
> 
> The best advice I can give is "Man, if you want a divorce I won't stop you. But at least you should ask yourself first, is your marriage worth saving? Don't stay just because of false hope, but don't give up too easily either"..
> 
> I hope my second conclusion is acceptable to you as well, yes?


Yes, I suppose it is. The trouble I have with giving marital advice (especially here where you at best get a snap shot of a situation) is that every marriage is different. I can believe that divorce is the only option for some people, while for others staying the course is reasonable and desirable and defensible. Unless I know someone pretty darn well, I have no idea what to advise. I can only share my story and leave it up to others to decide if their situation is like mine or not, and to decide if what worked for me might work for them.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

From various threads here, it would seem the best advice for the man is to walk out the door. Talking, pleading, and begging don't seem to work. It takes a shocking event to create a true epiphany and a change in behavior. It seems that only once he says he's leaving does she truly become enthusiastic about sex. Or, in the OP's case, she realizes that he's hurting so much that he may leave.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

wilson said:


> From various threads here, it would seem the best advice for the man is to walk out the door. Talking, pleading, and begging don't seem to work. It takes a shocking event to create a true epiphany and a change in behavior. It seems that only once he says he's leaving does she truly become enthusiastic about sex. Or, in the OP's case, she realizes that he's hurting so much that he may leave.


It wasn't that he was hurting so much that he might leave, but that he was hurting so much, period. 

Look, had he come to me two years ago and said, "I'm unhappy, I want a divorce," *I would not have suddenly changed my LD ways.* I would have been sad, yes, but I felt as helpless as he did to fix things and would likely have concluded that we should move on amicably. 

Threatening me with divorce as a means of bullying me into change would have resulted in . . . divorce. I think my H knew that, and he did not want a divorce. 

On another note, I have my doubts about "true enthusiasm" deriving from the threat of divorce. Behavior might change, yes, but from what I gather, many of the posters here do not want that type of sex. I found how to _*want to*_ give (and receive) it again, not just how to give it.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I was speaking from a man's perspective. If he wants things to change, he has to do something drastic. Just telling his wife doesn't seem to work (from reading the various threads here). You are quite the exception. Most women don't do what you did. Unless they are presented with a shocking situation, they won't make any effort to change. 

Many men here have tried to convey to their wives how important sex is and how much it hurts them to be denied. Rarely does it seem to work. Only once the men are walking out the door are their wives motivated to make a change.

Fortunately, that wasn't necessary in your situation. Although it took a shockingly long time for you to come around. It is unreasonable to expect a parter to wait 10 years. I'm glad it happened for you, but I doubt if most men would be content to do the same.

If talk alone doesn't work, he should do something more drastic like the 180, Married Man Sex Life Primer, or divorce.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

wilson said:


> I was speaking from a man's perspective. If he wants things to change, he has to do something drastic. Just telling his wife doesn't seem to work (from reading the various threads here). You are quite the exception. Most women don't do what you did. Unless they are presented with a shocking situation, they won't make any effort to change.
> 
> Many men here have tried to convey to their wives how important sex is and how much it hurts them to be denied. Rarely does it seem to work. Only once the men are walking out the door are their wives motivated to make a change.
> 
> Fortunately, that wasn't necessary in your situation. Although it took a shockingly long time for you to come around. It is unreasonable to expect a parter to wait 10 years. I'm glad it happened for you, but I doubt if most men would be content to do the same.


Yes, but don't forget that those were not ten years of a marriage that was good except for the sex. We had issues that took their toll on my libido, and my H recognizes his part in those issues. I went to IC because he refused MC for us or IC for himself. It could be that we would have found a way back to intimacy sooner if we were trying TOGETHER. Instead, we each eventually made the changes on our own accord to improve our own lives, and this is what allowed intimacy back into our marriage. 



wilson said:


> If talk alone doesn't work, he should do something more drastic like the 180, Married Man Sex Life Primer, or divorce.


I'd be willing to wager that talk alone rarely--if ever-- works.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"On another note, I have my doubts about "true enthusiasm" deriving from the threat of divorce."


I have read hundreds of stories about marriages where true change DID occur after one spouse asked for divorce. People show up here all the time saying it, too. Some version of "he has been telling me this for years but I guess I just didn't believe him...but he left me this morning, help! I want him back!"

And these people really DO suddenly see the light.

Not all of them.

But many really do.

I'm not saying this is a good reason to walk out the door. I'm just saying that for some spouses, their spouse leaving them really DOES cause the "crisis" that then changes everything.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> These are hard questions to answer, but I will try.
> 
> I knew he wanted sex, yes. And we had sex, just not as often as he wanted. I'm not sure I believed he _needed_ it, though. I suppose I thought that we had lopsided sex drives and that there wasn't much I could do about it. He was clear that he didn't want to have sex with me unless I really had the desire. It was my lack of desire that bothered him as much as the lack of sex. When he'd complain about it or try to explain how hard it was on him, I would listen, but not really comprehend. I figured we all go through life not getting some things we want. I did not appreciate the extent to which sex and my desire for sex with him was tied up in his self esteem and his feeling loved and emotionally fulfilled.
> 
> ...


This is the sort of thing that EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW, but hardly anyone does. Another crucial piece of information would be how critical a genuine emotional connection can be for women. It's kind of cruel how the relationship between the physical and the emotional are apparently typically opposite for men and women, in regards to making a connection between each other. They both desire the end goal, but prefer opposite paths to get there, and can react quite negatively as a result.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> I'm not sure I can express it in words, but I'll try.
> 
> It's made a huge, huge difference in my marriage. We are giddy in love again. We want to do things together, we are playful with one another, we spend a lot more time just hanging out together. The emotional connection that has been rekindled through sex is even better and deeper than I remember it being. Just lying in his arms is so incredibly blissful. We have had sex almost every day at least once a day for the past month. I think about it all the time. We've tired new things, I've been really, really into finding new ways to give him pleasure and he's found new ways for me. Mostly it is about the extreme intimacy, though. To want someone like I want my H, to be wanted like he wants me . . . Yeah, we sit around and gaze into each others eyes now. We make love with powerful emotional intensity. I realized just today what a gift it is to have the opportunity to be allowed inside another individual like this--as close to the "self" of someone else that you can possibly get . He'll let me in as far as I wish to travel, and I will strive to do the same for him. It's not always comfortable, but I realized there is perhaps no greater journey possible in my life on this earth.
> 
> ...


Thank you for bringing this subject to the fore. Like many here, and like you in the past, my wife has no interest in sex. She gets so wound up with the kids that she gives herself headaches. Sex is out of the question (she likes to say that sleep is more important to her than sex). Needless to say, I'm not happy with the situation, but bringing it up will only lead to sex where she'll give in to get me off of her back, and I don't want this. She also has issues with getting on me about little things (she'll go ape if a drink is spilled or something falls on the floor), and this is a function of her being stressed out from trying to be SuperMom. When you try to be SuperMom, you tend to forget that you have a husband (I sometimes think she looks at me as an accessory). 

As I read your post, you mention how your relationship improved dramatically once you rediscovered your libido. This is my thinking - if my wife would find the time to get her sex drive back and find time for us, she may be able to relax a bit and get us back on track. However, she almost seems proud of the fact that we haven't had sex in ages (proud is a strong word, but she doesn't shy away from telling people). I don't even bother bringing it up, as she tends not to listen to me anyway (I've mentioned in other posts about how she doesn't bother listening to me on some things). 

Good for you, and good luck moving forward. I admire the fact that you've owned up and are trying to keep things on the right path. Keep us posted.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Is there a known process where a male could re-establish a libido that had been slowed down due to a near sexless situation? Would like to raise libido level and c0ck confidence.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Is there a known process where a male could re-establish a libido that had been slowed down due to a near sexless situation? Would like to raise libido level and c0ck confidence.


You have to find your confidence in the other areas of your life. It transfers over.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

I think for a lot of women, an increased emotional intimacy with their partner equals an increased interest and ability where sex is concerned.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> You have to find your confidence in the other areas of your life. It transfers over.


Lol. Back when things were good for me, I never even knew I would have to consider this train of thought!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> "On another note, I have my doubts about "true enthusiasm" deriving from the threat of divorce."
> 
> 
> I have read hundreds of stories about marriages where true change DID occur after one spouse asked for divorce. People show up here all the time saying it, too. Some version of "he has been telling me this for years but I guess I just didn't believe him...but he left me this morning, help! I want him back!"
> ...


I'm interested in that perspective. Is it a bad reason? I've seen your blog, and without putting words in your mouth, you have a healthy sex drive and a healthy sex life with your "sex god", lol ... but what if you had that healthy sex drive and had a partner who couldn't care less? Is that a healthy situation to be in? Can you let go of that part of your life and simply live without ... possibly for the rest of your life? For some people I think the answer would be yes but for others it is such an integral part of who they are that it is devastating.

I am personally contemplating walking out the door. In fact, I have a date in mind and I am full of dread as it gets closer. I am so torn about it for a number of reasons ... 1) I have children who I can't even put into words how much I love them, 2) She is a good person of great compassion and high character ... she is my friend, and 3) we have worked through so many issues and have at least reached a level where we are content. The lack of intimacy though ... that just tears at my very being. We celebrate our 21st anniversary at the end of the month and over the last 6 years we have had next to no intimacy. I would probably accurately guess that you have had sex more often with your husband in the last few weeks than I've had with my wife in the last 6 years. On the one hand, I don't want to blow up our lives because of the lack of intimacy ... it is my problem, not hers ... but on the other hand I feel like a shell of a man without it. 

A crass and somewhat odd thought crossed my mind the other day. I overheard a conversation where several people were talking about their night out and it was revealed that one of them (a woman) had taken two men home. My ears honed right in as she lamented that it was a terrible experience. What crossed my mind though was that this woman, who is very attractive, could walk into a bar and take two strangers home who have nothing to offer her except for a pen!s and my own wife couldn't care less if she never again had to make love to her husband who provides for her, has her back and is a good father to her children. I threw myself a nice little pity party wondering what that says about me as a man. Like I said, a crass thought ... but that just emphasizes just how unhealthy this relationship has become for me.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Just said: "...but what if you had that healthy sex drive and had a partner who couldn't care less? Is that a healthy situation to be in? Can you let go of that part of your life and simply live without ... possibly for the rest of your life?"


Well this is my second marriage, and my first fell apart in large part due to mismatched sex drives so....for ME...I would divorce over it, yes. Not that I ever wanted to be divorced...but my sex life won out over my married life.


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## hawx20 (Jan 10, 2013)

I've been trying to get my wife to understand for years that I want sex from her to be close to her. I'm not looking for someone to just F---. 

The physical enjoyment is phenomenal, but it pales in comparison to the emotional. When I think about sex with my wife, i dont think about ejaculation. I think about how great it feels to kiss her, have her body in my hands, and how good it feels to be "wrapped" up with her in intimacy. 

Why cant she understand this?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> I've been trying to get my wife to understand for years that I want sex from her to be close to her. I'm not looking for someone to just F---.
> 
> The physical enjoyment is phenomenal, but it pales in comparison to the emotional. When I think about sex with my wife, i dont think about ejaculation. I think about how great it feels to kiss her, have her body in my hands, and how good it feels to be "wrapped" up with her in intimacy.
> 
> Why cant she understand this?


Some of them have been in positions where the guy "take" "take" "take", and they close that part of themself off. They think that sex is them giving up themself and that you want to "use" them.


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

hawx20 said:


> I've been trying to get my wife to understand for years that I want sex from her to be close to her. I'm not looking for someone to just F---.
> 
> The physical enjoyment is phenomenal, but it pales in comparison to the emotional. When I think about sex with my wife, i dont think about ejaculation. I think about how great it feels to kiss her, have her body in my hands, and how good it feels to be "wrapped" up with her in intimacy.
> 
> Why cant she understand this?


This is the exact problem I had. To. The. Letter. This is what I wanted, too.



treyvion said:


> Some of them have been in positions where the guy "take" "take" "take", and they close that part of themself off. T*hey think that sex is them giving up themself and that you want to "use" them*.



Apparently this was my wife's reaction to why I wanted to "poke" her. 


These two statements sum it up perfectly for me.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> "On another note, I have my doubts about "true enthusiasm" deriving from the threat of divorce."
> 
> 
> *I have read hundreds of stories about marriages where true change DID occur after one spouse asked for divorce. People show up here all the time saying it, too. Some version of "he has been telling me this for years but I guess I just didn't believe him...but he left me this morning, help! I want him back!"*
> ...


Are there lots of TAM threads documenting this?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

There was a good one up in the general discussion section...I don't know if the guy is still around or not but I will look for his thread.

The way this message board is set up in sections, sometimes I can't remember where I saw a certain message...but I know there have been some.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Is there a known process where a male could re-establish a libido that had been slowed down due to a near sexless situation? Would like to raise libido level and c0ck confidence.



A little decent education goes a long way here too. Too few people have honest, open discussions about sex, so what are yup left with? Bull**** ideas from popular culture and porn? Nor cutting it in the real world.

TAM has the sex in marriage section, you'll get real feedback from real people. Books can help, I got a lot from Slow Sex by Nicole Daedone, because her method leads to building intimacy and trust, and stoking the fire!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Are there lots of TAM threads documenting this?


Yes, there are. I've read the same thing myself on several threads.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

GettingIt, 

I'm terribly sorry, but after finding myself in your H's situation, I'm hollowed out to the point I've detached any emotional significance from sex. There is no way to reanimate the corpse.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Thank you for bringing this subject to the fore. Like many here, and like you in the past, my wife has no interest in sex. She gets so wound up with the kids that she gives herself headaches. Sex is out of the question (she likes to say that sleep is more important to her than sex). Needless to say, I'm not happy with the situation, but bringing it up will only lead to sex where she'll give in to get me off of her back, and I don't want this. She also has issues with getting on me about little things (she'll go ape if a drink is spilled or something falls on the floor), and this is a function of her being stressed out from trying to be SuperMom. When you try to be SuperMom, you tend to forget that you have a husband (I sometimes think she looks at me as an accessory).
> 
> As I just read your post, you mention how your relationship improved dramatically once you rediscovered your libido. This is my thinking - if my wife would find the time to get her sex drive back and find time for us, she may be able to relax a bit and get us back on track. However, she almost seems proud of the fact that we haven't had sex in ages (proud is a strong word, but she doesn't shy away from telling people). I don't even bother bringing it up, as she tends not to listen to me anyway (I've mentioned in other posts about how she doesn't bother listening to me on some things).
> 
> Good for you, and good luck moving forward. I admire the fact that you've owned up and are trying to keep things on the right path. Keep us posted.


The OP is saying she wished her H made her husband understand what damage to him she was doing in the process of rejecting him. You are applauding her for doing it. This brings me to ask you why you (or anyone) would put up with their spouse not meeting their needs. Why are their no consequences for your wife for not taking care of you?
Sure, you may be a terribly lazy spouse, or disgusting for her to look at, but I assume you are neither of these things, and she has just chosen that her low drive is more important than your needs. I highly suggest you think hard and realize that in life you get what you take. If you wait to be served you will do just that, wait. No magic fairy is flying into your home to force your wife to understand how she is a terrible spouse for this neglect. Sucks to hear of people like you that stop caring for themselves and allow their lives to be ruined sexually from the emotional abuse caused by neglect and rejection. And you say your wife gloats about doing this to you...? Wow..sad.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

moco82 said:


> GettingIt,
> 
> I'm terribly sorry, but after finding myself in your H's situation, I'm hollowed out to the point I've detached any emotional significance from sex. There is no way to reanimate the corpse.


seriously? WTF. Feel like I need to start a club like AA but for people that allow themselves to be railroaded by selfish spouses.
You people need to demand or walk IMO. 
Sorry but sex is too good to live with out it. I am sorry for you people.

married 14 years, together 19, get it 6-8 x week. 

I couldn't do it.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Feel like I need to start a club like AA but for people that allow themselves to be railroaded by selfish spouses.
> You people need to demand or walk IMO.


Some of us find literature like "No More Mr Nice Guy" too late, when sudden moves are impossible (e.g. young children). In my case, I also felt immense responsibility as she was going from one reason to be discontented to another (work, professional certifications, my aversion to having kids, etc.)--it seemed like leaving would be a stab in the back.


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## hawkeye (Oct 6, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Are there lots of TAM threads documenting this?


It worked for me. I wrote a little about it on a different thread.....



hawkeye said:


> God, this sounds like the exact same situation I found myself in for too many years. About a year ago we had another of our dozens of talks and I finally brought up the specter of divorce. I don't know if that's what did it, but the sex has been a million times better for more than a year now. It took an eternity, but we finally made big progress.





hawkeye said:


> Yeah, I got to the point where I felt like I had no choice. We literally had dozens of these talks and each time I'd think that maaaaybe this was the one to get through. But things would almost instantly go back to normal afterwards. And in retrospect, I was probably being way too much of a nice guy about it. It was when things were getting close to the ten year point that i finally woke up and said "this needs to end now." I told her I wasn't going to do another ten years of this, either she works on it or else. She finally worked on it.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

moco82 said:


> Some of us find literature like "No More Mr Nice Guy" too late, when sudden moves are impossible (e.g. young children). In my case, I also felt immense responsibility as she was going from one reason to be discontented to another (work, professional certifications, my aversion to having kids, etc.)--it seemed like leaving would be a stab in the back.


Listen, I completely hear you and all the others that have "reasons" for this to exist. My opinion is you are wrong.
Kids need to witness healthy relationships or they grow up to repeat what they see. Your relationship is not healthy. You two may love one another, but their is an imbalance of respect, and you do not get your ego fed as you should and need, as a man,
Divorce would be available in most states allowing you 50% custody. You should be doing 50% of the work anyway. This is just my opinion. I understand you feel differently. Ii just want to get all to understand that unless you are willing to respect yourself first, your spouse won't either.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> seriously? WTF. Feel like I need to start a club like AA but for people that allow themselves to be railroaded by selfish spouses.
> You people need to demand or walk IMO.
> Sorry but sex is too good to live with out it. I am sorry for you people.
> 
> ...


do you really think your situation is the norm?
Spouses arent pets, you cant MAKE them do things....and for many, including myself, lack of sex is NOT reason enough to throw away family/friends/finances to go and find a willing sex partner who, most likely, the sex will also decrease and become mundane

sex with the same person over many years does lose excitement, passion...doesnt mean it HAS to stop, but to think your gonna be married for 15 years and still do it 6-8 times a week is lunacy imo..YOU are very very lucky...


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> and you do not get your ego fed as you should and need, as a man,
> Divorce would be available in most states allowing you 50% custody. You should be doing 50% of the work anyway.


In your opinion, what % of children would still grow up in a two-parent household if every man followed your advice?


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

moco82 said:


> In your opinion, what % of children would still grow up in a two-parent household if every man followed your advice?


I think marriages would mostly stay in tact and be more healthy if people respected their partners needs and did their very best to meet those needs. I think getting those needs met should be able to be achieved through communication from 2 people in a "healthy" relationship. If communication will not work in a relationship then there needs to be consequences. Not to mention that more than 50% of marriages end in divorce already, and I *do not* believe that it is due to how healthy the average relationship is. So, do I think divorce percentages would increase if partners stopped allowing one spouse to decide on their own which marital needs of their partner need to be met. No, I think the opposite. Marriages would be better and last longer if resentment was not such a huge issue in so many marriages. You allow it, and you will resent, you are human. I am saying to stop the cycle and do something about it.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> do you really think your situation is the norm?
> Spouses arent pets, you cant MAKE them do things....and for many, including myself, lack of sex is NOT reason enough to throw away family/friends/finances to go and find a willing sex partner who, most likely, the sex will also decrease and become mundane
> 
> sex with the same person over many years does lose excitement, passion...doesnt mean it HAS to stop, but to think your gonna be married for 15 years and still do it 6-8 times a week is lunacy imo..YOU are very very lucky...


Never claimed it to be the norm. 
Merely showing that with effort placed in the right spots, and not allowing your needs to be ignored through communication, a couple can have it all. I am also saying if your spouse refuses to communicate, listen, understand, and try, then there needs to be a point where you stand up for yourself. Remember we are not talking about missing out on a little sex. We are talking about spouses where rejection is the norm and intimacy is not. We are talking about once a month if you are lucky type stuff.
These are considered mostly sexless marriages. If you get it once or twice a week should you be looking to throw it all away b/c you want it 6-8 times a week. No and I did not say it that way. Compromise and reality of your particular situations come into play. 
Lets be honest folks. Sex is a lot more fun, than watching reality T.V., walking the dog, a crossword puzzle, or whatever daily thing you do that takes about the same time as it does to be loving and intimate with a spouse. If you think of it as work, then that is sad and telling of the status of your relationship. My wife and I look forward to being alone and intimate as the best part of our day. Even on the occasional day we do not engage, or she has her P and does not feel sexy, we still hug, cuddle, I rub her back, massage her. The connection is always there.
If any of you want to criticize my opinions, I suggest you compare the connection physically and emotionally i have with my wife and compare it to your own story. How do they stack up? I guarantee you in another 20 years, I will still be in love with her, and her with me. I will still be massaging her and connecting with her. Sure as we age the sex may slow down a bit, but the connection will never fade. Neither of us woould ever allow that to happen. In most of your marriages it sounds like that connection has faded. That is not a sexual problem, nor is it the natural declination caused by the years you have been together. It is one or both of you taking the other for granted.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

missthelove2013 said:


> do you really think your situation is the norm?
> Spouses arent pets, you cant MAKE them do things....and for many, including myself, lack of sex is NOT reason enough to throw away family/friends/finances to go and find a willing sex partner who, most likely, the sex will also decrease and become mundane
> 
> *sex with the same person over many years does lose excitement, passion...doesnt mean it HAS to stop, but to think your gonna be married for 15 years and still do it 6-8 times a week is lunacy *imo..YOU are very very lucky...


I have to disagree with you on the bolded part above MTL. I have been married a lot longer than 15 years and I can state that sex does not have to lose it's excitement and passion. If people genuinely want to keep their marriages and/or sex life exciting, they can - no matter how long they are together. Our sex life has had its ups and downs through the years, but never stopped. I can't imagine living in a sexless marriage - nor expecting my husband to. I told my husband when we first married that he may divorce me some day, but it would not be due to the lack of a sex life and I have been true to my word.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> do you really think your situation is the norm?
> Spouses arent pets, you cant MAKE them do things....and for many, including myself, lack of sex is NOT reason enough to throw away family/friends/finances to go and find a willing sex partner who, most likely, the sex will also decrease and become mundane
> 
> sex with the same person over many years does lose excitement, passion...doesnt mean it HAS to stop, but to think your gonna be married for 15 years and still do it 6-8 times a week is lunacy imo..YOU are very very lucky...


Oh, I almost forgot. Luck has nothing to do with it. I did not come out of the womb and know this all to be true. My wife and I were like tthe stories I hear on here. She is a teacher and after our second child she started to grade papers and fall asleep on the couch occasionally, then frequently, then it became the norm. It had me feeling rejected and I was depressed. One day I woke up on my own and sat her down and we talked and really hashed out the causes of our disconnect after baby #2. Sure there was the usual things, like being more tired etc... Those are not reasons though, they are excuses, and we both realized the difference. I now understand fully what she needs from me and I from her. Neither of us was ok with letting the other down like that. We love one another too much. We worked on it together, communicated and got to where we are today. Call it luck if you want. I assure you the only thing I attribute to luck is that I married a woman that actually loves me and holds my needs in high regard. I am sorry if others that are married are not so lucky to have those qualities in their spouse. That would have more to do with a poor foundation of the marriage though. I think really there is no hope for marriage at all with out a foundation that includes desiring to make your spouse feel wanted and loved. If your spouse is unwilling to provide their part towards this foundation, then yes I do think that you should be divorced.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I do agree with you nogutsnoglory....except there is a nuance you haven't discussed.

Which is this - not everyone is a highly sexual person who will prioritize sex over other things in a relationship.

Some people, though they would wish to have more sex in their marriage than they are currently having, still will not choose divorce over their situation.

Personally, that is not me. I couldn't stay in a sexless or sexually unsatisfying marriage. I would divorce over it. I would make it very clear that this was a boundary for me and I would mean it. I am already divorced once over a sexual mismatch, and I honestly wish I could have been much more clear and honest about the problems it created for us very early on in the marriage. I wish I had not wasted either my ex-h's time or mine on "trying to make it work". Because NOW I know, there is no way it could have worked.

But we both wanted to cling to the easier situation, and we wanted to hide from our problems. In the end, I am/was a much more sexual person that he was...and there was no fix for it.

*IF* I wasn't such a highly sexual person...we would still be married. We might both have been slightly dissatisfied with the sex life, but would have plugged along anyway and quite possibly would have been overall very happy. In other words, being highly sexual pushed my hand in my decision to D or stay married.

Other people, my ex-h for instance, would NOT divorce over lack of or crappy sex.

Not everyone will really leave the marriage...so the same advice doesn't work for everyone to state clearly "the sex gets better or I'm outta here". 

Some people will value other things about their spouse higher than they value the sex with them, and will choose to stay because of these other things.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Moco,
This really isn't about demanding sex. In most cases it is simply a matter of demanding that your partner prioritize you to a reasonable degree. That means they acknowledge you as a person who matters, whose feelings matter and who is worthy of their love, consideration and effort.

A sexually dominant husband who has a bad tendency to boast, might tell his friends that his wife will do whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. 

The female counterpart to this is the dominant wife (who has lost respect and with it desire for her H) with the same tendency towards boasting. She tells their friends that she never does what he wants sexually - and the unspoken subtext is that she is so powerful in the marriage that she is able to sexually monopolize him, without even having sex (demanding his celibacy). 

Most sexless marriages with two healthy people who like each other have become sexless because the 'refused' was unwilling to risk 'upsetting' their refuser. They may complain loudly, but this is counterproductive with a spouse who is already well aware that the refused is quite unhappy about the marital bed. 

For example, Charging could tell his wife that when their youngest goes to school, they will find an after school day care provider and she will go back to work full time. The reason he will avoid doing so is fear that she might leave him. 


UOTE=moco82;5102130]In your opinion, what % of children would still grow up in a two-parent household if every man followed your advice?[/QUOTE]


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

hawkeye said:


> It worked for me. I wrote a little about it on a different thread.....


I am going to do the same in the near future. Her being pregnant may not be the best time to do so but the longer I wait the more resentment is allowed to grow. I am going to give it until six months after the birth (March) and she still acts indifferent then I am moving on. I will be giving up a lot if it comes to that but so be it, I have overcame greater challenges than that before.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> This really isn't about demanding sex. In most cases it is simply a matter of demanding that your partner prioritize you to a reasonable degree. That means they acknowledge you as a person who matters, whose feelings matter and who is worthy of their love, consideration and effort.


Perhaps. Unfortunately, for too long I thought that asking to be prioritized would make me a male chauvinist pig. Right up Dr. Glover's alley.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Moco, 
Right there with you. Addressing this topic isn't easy. It requires a combination of determination, diplomacy, 
Self awareness and restraint. 

The self awareness is key because it helps you gauge the degree to which this is a relationship 
Problem that has spilled into the bedroom or if it is a bedroom specific issue. For instance if your 
Spouse doesn't extend an olive branch and almost never apologizes after conflict, that is a big red 
Flag. A spouse like that isn't interested in working with their 'responsive' desire because your
Feelings don't matter. 

2;5112170]Perhaps. Unfortunately, for too long I thought that asking to be prioritized would make me a male chauvinist pig. Right up Dr. Glover's alley.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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