# how do you do it.



## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

I just don't get it.
Background
She cheated 3 times.
2 sexual 1 relationship
She admitted
Stopped extra relationship after awhile
We decided to fully commit

on a side note I've moved here mostly from the going through divorce or deparation forum because I seem to having problems with coping.
Some days are so effortless and others are great struggles. The ones that are the most difficult it seems like the world is conspiring against me. Every song, every word, show, sign, or person remind me of what happened. I don't want to take things out emotionally on my wife or kids, but on those days I find myself just shutting down and can't stop it. 
How do you deal with these feelings of sadness and loss? I know it's good I lost what I did because it was dead and what I have now is life again, but I seem to enjoy making myself hurt. I don't know any other way to describe it. I consider myself a very rational person and don't know why I do it or how I could stop this. 
Like I said.....coping problems 
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

If you need anymore background info to help, just ask.
thanks
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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think they call it a montra
what I do is when I start have a bad feeling about her 20 OM, I repeat to my self "I deserve to be happy and desever good things" it helps when I repeat it over and over agian. then something else like a phone call or a topic on the radio or something will distract me and the feeling will go away and a smile on my face will return.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Unaware is perfect, she had two in the bag without any clue from me, then hit me with wanting to separate about 2 years ago. We talked through it and worked it out. Then she lost her job about 6 months later, found some comfort elsewhere and then I found out about that one, which shortly led to finding out about the rest. So I'm technically about a 8 months out now. Does it get easier? Whenever I seem to turn the corner and have a few good days or a whole week, something pulls me back and makes everything seem like a joke. We are going to be doing councilling after the baby is born and we get finances more under control.
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## robalocc (Apr 22, 2010)

RWB, that was perfectly said !!


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

robalocc said:


> RWB, that was perfectly said !!



I can't agree more. The part that got me the most was how my blind trust got us to that point in the first place. I've referenced that many times with her how I used to trust her word right at what it was. 

the bad days suck really bad, but I just need to remember what you said and work together towards our future. That I will have bad days, reading that is making me realize that I'm expecting my bad days to disappear because I chose to move on together, but reality is that they stay because that's part of the process.

well spoken, thank you RWB
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

And upon reflection I think my greatest fear with all of this is that constantly sharing rthese thoughts and feelings with her is going to frustrate or irritate he rinto doing this all over again, act like she's being there for me and getting her on the side. I think I should discuss that with her in the next few days. I'm working 3am-3pm for all this week so my interaction time with her will be very limited, she works second shift/mid shift. I will def. share these thoughts though
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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree Josh, you have to tell her how you feel, communication is key......I do exactly that, I figure since the affair I have the right to explain my hurt and my bad feelings, it wasn't my choice to have to deal with any of this.......I didn't chose this.....
my husband knows that he has created a lot of hurt and disappointment in my life and he knows that it's up to him to now help me through all this and to listen to my needs, if it's a million times that's what it will be.......
it gets better with each day that passes.......give it time, redirect the thoughts.....think of only today, don't look back.......


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Josh,
RWB was not only writing to you, but it hit home for me also. what he wrote was awsome and it has meant a great deel to me as well
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU-RWB 
I'm 6 month since wifes omition and we're doing great. I too hate those bad feeling, had some on way home from work Thanks to RWB I'm feeling better.


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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

thanks rbw and josh, 
this has also helped me, it's so hard to let go but if we want it to work we have to let it go and live for the day we have instead of the ones past........
some of the choices weren't ours, recovery is ........


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Having been on both sides of this issue, I can say that both ways it comes down to making a decision. I know that sounds really sort of cold and mechanical, but it's how it is. For a long while, after my ex had his affair, I made the choice to hold onto it because if I didn't what else would be my excuse? As long as I held onto it, I had a good reason for not taking a risk, for holding it above his head, for looking at what HE did rather than looking at my own behavior, etc. But there does come a day, sometimes 6 months or a year after, that you have to say, "I'm letting this go. I'm not letting their affair define me; I'm not using it as an excuse to look back rather than looking forward; I'm not using it to keep me from taking the risk of trusting again; I'm not letting the affair have one more minute of MY time!" 

So personally, I mourned and I had a funeral. The old marriage was dead and so was my naiveté that "it wouldn't happen to us" or that I had a happy family. So I held a funeral, buried the old, and made the choice to let it go...and thereafter when I thought about it or started getting bummed I would make the choice to change my thoughts, on purpose. If it was a song that reminded me, I would purposely listen to that song over and over until I didn't hear the affair, I heard the song. 

Hope this helps some Josh.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Thanks everyone, I'm hoping that this is just my brains feeble last ditch attempts to try and control my heart. Once we decided to work things out a year and a half ago, I opened myself up to the worlf and loved every bit of it. I saw people and situations in ways I hadn't in so many years. I looked at everything in hatred and anger before this happened, and I never want to go back to that. I felt myself slipping back there shortly after finding everything out and my wife helped me get myself out and I was/am grateful for that. When I found out about the first one, which was really the last, I worked myself through it pretty quickly and was proud of how accepting I had gotten to working through it, but it was the rest of it that knocked me back.
I don't really have faith to fall back on so it's just the help of good people and positivity for me 
The only thing that can completely destroy all of this for me is if the baby ends up not being mine......that day is fast approaching. 2 months to go
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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

On the other hand, she could say, well this is easy, I think I will do it again...just be cautious..remember, fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice and shame on me, fool me three times and then shoot me.


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## 2Boys (Aug 8, 2010)

Josh, I understand what you mean about hatred and anger. I agree with Affaircare on making the decision to move forward and losing your naivety. Good luck to you Josh and stay strong.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

josh, Getting back to "how do you do it" , I read some where that if the behaviors don't change then it is most likely the next relationship will end up the same way. so I decided to start a new marriage with the same person, rather then have the same marriage with a differant person. So with this new marriage, with a wife that cheated on me for yrs. I changed and if she followed, great. If she didn't change then I could take what I learned and move on. She made the dicision to change and we are still together. 
I know 1st hand its hard to let go, but I love my new marriage with the same wife. So just like you I keep trying to cope, but stay cautious.
Whats up with the baby, that wasn't mentioned on your first post?


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

The baby was conceived after her affair had ended, so there is no 'for sure' paternity right now. The due date we were given at the ultrasound puts conception on my shoulders, but you can't be for sure. I've been through this before with her and my oldest boy. She got pregnant by her ex a few days into us starting to see each other. That caused alot of the problems that I am dealing with today. 
He's due in October, she has to have a caesarean so the date will be planned. They will likely take him out a week or so before her due date to avoid natural birth. I am very worried about this day. We've already made plans for me to not be at delivery. But mentally/emotionally preparing fOr this is very difficult because I don't know which angle I'm approaching it all from
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Also things between us have not been good the last few days. I am being very hostile to her through texting. It is easier for me to digest my feelings and thoughts that way instead of spur of the moment. It's difficult for me to talk to her in person because I never get everything I want to say out. I'm always forgetting things or saying them wrong. Plus I don't enjoy being mean to her or saying things that'll hurt her feelings, but this thoughts burst at the seams and need to come out.
She texted me today that she loves me but she doesn't think I'm going to stay with her and she just wants me to get to the same place as her so we can move forward.
I told her it's easier for her to do that because she had the 'fun' of the affairs while I'm left with a broken heart and mind....not so much fun
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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

My heart wants to tell you that it's not the baby's fault, that you and (it) are both victims of this selfish woman and perhaps you might find some kind of kindred spirit with (him) even if he turns out not to be yours. But the voice of reason tells me to find out asap who fathered this baby, because if he isn't yours, his bio daddy has legal rights to him and man, the world just exploded. She and the baby would be tied to him for life--even if biodad didn't decide right away that he wanted a piece of the action, he could 5, 10, even 15 years down the road. Always in the back of your mind. If he's yours, you'll probably want to know that too, so you can stop worrying about it, and enjoy being a dad. Did you say she has another son by an affair, or did she end the pregnancy? Anyway, my thoughts are with you. You seem like a stand-up guy. I hope Karma sends you something sweet.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Josh,
here's my opinion;
-Your mean b/c your fustrated
-feeling.. well feelings are a out the window when she stopped thinking about yours
-as far as 'being in the same place' goes....... spend the weekend together say, at a resort or campsite. My thought is IF SHE WANTS YOU TO UNDERSTAND HER, THEN YOU WANT HER TO UNDERSTAND YOU!
What would happen if you both spent the weekend together discussing "the moving on" thing?


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Uhaul-the oldest boy just turned 7 and is not my bio child. He is my son now, don't mistake that, but not biologically. That could be seen as an affair by some and not by others. We had just started seeing each other for not even really 3 days by then and hadn't 'made it official'. I think the question of paternity is a big reason why I'm not letting go an moving on because it would seriously effect our relationship if not mine, and I don't know if healing forward would be a waste of time or not.

guy-a weekend away sounds nice and would probably help alot. There's alot of variables for us though for us. We have two kids and babysitting is hard to come by and we work opposite shifts, and I have every weekend off while she doesn't. I know these are excuses...maybe it's time to put those away.
I've been trying to treat this as a 2nd marriage like some have suggested but it's so hard not to look at her and remember what's happened.
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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ya I know what you mean.
In my case, I'll tell her " I did bad s**t to and you did bad s**t to me, it bumbs me out" so she has the understanding that I need a hug, so we hug and we move on about the day. 
For so many years there was no affection in our marriage so now we try very hard to show it (to each other) and it helps us alot.

I hate to brag but my chick just got the weekend off (its been months) and I'm laying next to her right now. Fri. I canceled all work related issues and turned off cell phone. This time is such a "healer"
Do what you/her can and find a weekend.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

I'll agree with you there. Last night we watched a movie and cuddled on the love seat and it was very nice. As soon as we went to bed though I felt cold and distant again. I'm sure it had to do with my mind being distracted for 2.5 hrs by the movie. Ups and downs are bothersome and I'm looking forward to them declining.
Today is our boys' joint birthday party and I'm looking forward to that. Throughout all of this I feel like my fathering skills have increased dramatically so I am grateful for that. I used to hate gatherings and now I look forward to them. Now if I could just feel like my marriage is going that same direction.
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

The more I think about it the more I feel the reason I'm having such a hard time is because woman I see now is the same as the one I saw for the last 2 years. She hid things so well I never knew what was happening. Everything was innocent and I was being paranoid or snooping. She would still laugh with me, complain at things with me, and confide in me. We'd talk about our future and about having more kids, and then the night of her birthday she hit me with it. That same woman who did all those things with me is still there...nothing new...nothing different to my eyes or senses.....how in gods name am I supposed to tell or feel differently when I see the same woman in front of me, and hear that same woman tell me I'm her everything and she loves me, when it's the same person I saw ripping my heart out and feasting on it?
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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Josh~

Why don't you ask HER that? 

Specifically, if (quote) _That same woman who did all those things with me is still there...nothing new...nothing different to my eyes or senses...._. (end quote) I'd say that's part of the issue. 

When a person is disloyal, if you return to the same person with the same marriage and nothing is new and nothing changes...you tell me what's going to happen? Yeah that's right! The SAME THING! In order for things to go differently that means you both need to change!

YOU need to grow and change and learn about personal boundaries, and she needs to do the work to figure out why she chose an affair and where her weaknesses are. And she needs to protect those weaknesses! If she doesn't then I can reasonably predict that some day she will return to (quote)_ ...the person I saw ripping my heart out and feasting on it _(end quote).


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

I believe her and I are overdue for a nice long conversation about things....from your mouths and hers. We talked for a few minutes yesterday, but with working 12 hrs and her working 2nd, wuality time is hard to come by for the next few days. This is overdue and will be done as soon as possible. I will update in a few days after we talk
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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Here's a suggestion...

I know jobs are hard to find, but maybe you two need to get on the same shift so that you have the quality time together that other couples have. Maybe someone has to take a pay cut because of that and I know it's easier said than done but is the marriage worth it?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

RWB, can you look at my post "Completely Clueless" ?? I have no idea how to proceed. My wife says she "wants time" to figure things out. She said that she "isn't attracted to me" (nothing has physically changed much) ............. Like I said, I am completely clueless ........ I had a feeling of understanding for her 7 days after I found out, and I told her about it. I didn't get anything back from her.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Chris Taylor said:


> Here's a suggestion...
> 
> I know jobs are hard to find, but maybe you two need to get on the same shift so that you have the quality time together that other couples have.



Yeah it could be done, but it wouldn't be practical. Two kids and full time daycare is very expensive when you don't make much in the first place. One of us would essentially be working to pay our daycare bill....and then 3rd child would be added on and the financial sinking would begin. 
What seems to be good now is that she misses me alot more now that she doesn't see me as much. I have also been doing activities with my boys and doing things by myself, even when she is home, and she seems to be longing for my company again. So now I will find a good balance for that to make everyone happy. We used to devote every free moment to each other and it blew up in our faces, so I don't want to repeat those mistakes....plus I'm liking me time alot too 
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Dunno if any cares or not but it's been a month and I am in an updating mood. Plus I want to get something out there and see what the general feel for it may be

things have been going very well. My wife and I talk about feelings, fears, and just to each other all the time. I feel like I've gotten that "original person" back, and like I've only bettered myself. I seem to be enjoying even the drab parts of life again.

What I am wanting to run publicly is about the baby. Delivery date is coming in about 4 weeks. Should I really care who the dad is? It changes nothing that happened....nothing. It's not like, if this baby comes out mine then it erases the affairs my wife had...everything is still going to be the same. I never planned on taking anything out on the kid. I have my wife back that I love, and I've been thinking lately that'll be enough no matter what.
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

This isn't something I've run by her yet. I know if I told her this then it would put the biggest fear of hers to rest, which is I leave if the baby's not mine. I want to give this a few days to soak, if you will, to make sure it's what I really think and feel before acting. I have a problem with spur of the moment emotional decisions.

i know alot of you are very against the idea of raising another man's child. But it's not something I haven't done before.
I need to hear opinions and thoughts on this before I talk to my wife about what I've been thinking.
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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

"


> coming in about 4 weeks. Should I really care who the dad is? It changes nothing that happened....nothing"


 – At this moment the child is yours be the father you are and bring the baby into your world as your own.

You will be a better man for this.

If there is a challenge and a paternity test and the result is not in your favour it changes nothing as far as you are concerned. 

The child calls you dad and if he should see his real father he calls him by his first name.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's the fact, Josh. It is conceivable that another man may have donated sperm initially, but in every other way that means anything you are the baby's father. You have been there as the baby grew. You have watched him/her kick and do cartwheels and blow bubbles. You've been talking to the baby and comforting it. The baby will know your smell, your voice, your touch. The baby is the living creation of the woman you love and you were married to her at the time of conception. 

When the baby is born, you will feed it, diaper it, cuddle it, sing to it, and work hard to provide for it. When the baby is grown you'll be the one teaching the child to talk and walk, making the first birthday cake, and playing ball with him/her. In every POSSIBLE way except ... maybe ... biology you are this child's father. 

Thus, if you have it in your heart to love this child and take the responsibility of raising it, then do so. You can be named as the father on the birth certificate even, or you can keep your name off and volunteer to adopt the baby once it is a couple years old. But here's the fact. People divorce every day. Sometimes a male person will run off and leave a lady with a baby. And then a Real Man comes along, and loves her, and loves the child...and after a few years voluntarily adopts the child as his own, legally taking parental rights and responsibility for the child. So just picture that you are doing *that* with your wife and this new child. This is a NEW marriage, and a new baby that she had ... sort of "before this new marriage."


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Lol...like I said. This won't be my first rodeo. My oldest son isn't my biological child, I don't look at him any way but as mine. 

So I'm not dumb for looking at this the way I am then? When I started to really think about the paternity not having any effect on the past and how it doesn't make anything she's done go away, it seemed so simple. If I want to be with her then I want to be with her. The issue is infidelities, not the baby. The baby is a product of the infidelity (possibly) and that's all.

The only problem that could spring up from this not being my kid is that he will be....I guess you could say, not of my skin color. That makes questions and comments so much easier to come to peoples lips.....and my kids too. I know I shouldn't care what other people think or say, but that's easier said then done. Especially when I know what they're talking about is something I consider my business.

We're still going to do councilling but not until after the baby is born. I think it is still important to do.
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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

> I guess you could say, not of my skin color.


If the baby’s origin is that obvious then it’s your wife who will be having to look people in the eye and always feel the guilt of the affair, you have to be yourself. 

Have you and your wife discussed this, is she fully committed to the marriage and you?


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

I reread all your posts and see many nice words from you about your wife but I do not see what hoops, BIG hoops, VERY BIG hoops she has to jump through to commit to this marriage. She is pregnant, she cries, you feel sorry, she needs a father for a child that may or may not be yours.

I do not disagree with you being the child’s father what concerns me is that there does not appear to be a robust action plan that she is working to, she is not doing her everything to fill your love bank to ensure that this marriage last the duration of a lifetime. You in turn need to keep her love bank full. 

I do not read anywhere, perhaps I have missed it, where she has written a letter to each and very person she has had an affair with, where she acknowledges her wrongdoing and that she is breaking all contact with them to focus on being your wife. 

Please do not defend yourself against the items above, sit down and follow my line of thinking :- 

Baby is born – it may or may not be yours, you and wife stay together as a family, if baby is not yours other man pays support and is in your life for 18 years.

Step forward say 5 years, wife has another affair, why? No BIG hoops to jump through, no consistent love bank filling going on, you are her husband and have proved to all that you are a very NICE guy and she has a good chance of getting away with the new affair, again, or if baby is not yours and you adopt the child she SMILES broadly at you, you pay support and she is on her merry way with new OM. You lose all round

Why take the risk without being on a sound footing, have a look at marriagebuilders.com and the AffairCare Home site, read the material there. Have a conversation with wife. This conversation is for YOU to be assured that all the actions she is to take will be to save your marriage and ensure this does not ever happen again. 

Many best wishes..


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> The only problem that could spring up from this not being my kid is that he will be....I guess you could say, not of my skin color. That makes questions and comments so much easier to come to peoples lips.....and my kids too. I know I shouldn't care what other people think or say, but that's easier said then done. Especially when I know what they're talking about is something I consider my business.
> 
> We're still going to do councilling but not until after the baby is born. I think it is still important to do.


1) If you are dark as the midnight sky and the baby is a very white, redhead--I would suggest telling people she/he is adopted and they'll say "Ah!" and shut up. The point is not to give strangers the details that your wife had an affair, but two hobbits with an Ent baby--well people do wonder how that happened so just give them an explanation that will sound plausible-ish and is not a lie. 

2) Regarding HOOPS and counseling--Josh I'm glad to hear that things are going better between you two, but I do agree that if you don't address what caused these affairs, they will continue. Something is missing, and my guess is a combination of something she needs to address and protect herself from...and something you could do that she needs but doesn't tell you she needs it. It is unreasonable for someone to have an affair, have sex with someone outside the marriage, and expect to come back and not have any consequence. So please for your own self-worth and dignity, do not neglect this. I personally believe the sooner the better, but that's just my personal opinion.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

What am I supposed to do exactly? Is this something that will be addressed in therapy when we start that?

I know what our problems were before. I resented her for me being a father too early. I didn't know how to be a good boyfriend and I wasn't ready to be a dad, no matter how much I lied and said I was. That turned into about 5 years of anger, putdowns, and a general hatred of life on my part. She hung as long as she could trying to be the positive one, but it was too much. She was being too clingy and I was being too distant. She was made to be mom and mom only and wasn't leaving time for herself, and that started a resentment from her for me.
When she hit me with the initial separation news I flashed out of my funk and have been on the upclimb since. Even when I found out about the affairs and the boyfriend I was in a better place then I was a few years back.
I guess I just don't understand what to do next to make sure we stay on the path and don't let it slip back.
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Both of us have admitted our faults and acknowledged we were both to blame for where we headed. I don't understand what hoops she needs to go through I guess. She cut contact with the OM...no news about the pregnancy and how she's doing. I told everyone about the affair shortly after I found out and I kept it positive about how I wanted to still be her husband and I wasn't supporting an affair. I didn't know about the 'steps' but that's what I did on my own.
She has been honest to me about everything. I've checked on things and found her to be truthful when they look bad on her. Last time she saw OM was when he came into her work to ask about the baby. She hs since changed jobs. I understand the letter thing, but I don't see how it'd help now. I told her straight up...you've forfeited any relationship friend or otherwise with these people, if you want us to go forward this is how it has to be.
Am I missing things or looking at this from the wrong angle?I know it's easier to see things I don't from the outside
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## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

Josh1081,
I would say follow your gut on this one, if you are alright raising this child even if it's not yours then do so.
Make sure your wife is doing her part and being honest about her intentions when it comes to committing to your marriage.....
I think it's a wonderful thing when a man is a great dad when he doesn't even have to be......that says something about you as a person, I think you are more grown up then you think.....
The trick is understanding that the two of you are chosing to move forward together as a couple and a family and that choice is of free will and a choice that is best for everyone.......you can't change the past, but you can control your future and the quality of your life......
If you stand united then you can overcome anything that comes your way.........
good luck


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

> I understand the letter thing, but I don't see how it'd help now


It helps both of you, she is taking a practical step by putting something in writing where there is no misinterpretation from her to the OM’s or you as to what she is saying. 

It is closure for you and by doing this she is showing you she is prepared to stop. The written word is powerful and the action itself will speak volumes to you.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Wisp said:


> It helps both of you, she is taking a practical step by putting something in writing where there is no misinterpretation from her to the OMs or you as to what she is saying.
> 
> It is closure for you and by doing this she is showing you she is prepared to stop. The written word is powerful and the action itself will speak volumes to you.



Ok that makes perfect sense, but I have a question to that. This is not fresh anymore. The boyfriend she had hasn't been spoken to or seen since the beginning of March, pushing up on 7 months. The Ex of hers, she hasn't spoken to a few months prior to that. It seems to be kind of wasted energy to be going back that far now. I can see it if it's a month or so out, but not this far.
Should I just keep monitoring on that front and if I see any kind of contact being made then have the talk about the No Contact being written? Otherwise it has the feel of reaching out to contact when she's made the effort, personally, to remove herself from it already.
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## wmmaria (Sep 13, 2010)

you have got to be the strongest person first of all to put up with everything you have already. Try counseling and if that doesn't work, look toward moving on.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

It sounds to me as if you two, as a couple, have already done what folks might mean when they say HOOPS. Here are direct quotes where you describe the Hoops: 

1) No Contact with the other men ever! 


> She cut contact with the OM...no news about the pregnancy and how she's doing...Last time she saw OM was when he came into her work to ask about the baby. *She has since changed jobs*. I understand the letter thing, but I don't see how it'd help now. I told her straight up...you've forfeited any relationship friend or otherwise with these people, if you want us to go forward this is how it has to be....The boyfriend she had hasn't been spoken to or seen since the beginning of March, pushing up on 7 months. The Ex of hers, she hasn't spoken to a few months prior to that.


In your specific instance you two did not write a No Contact Letter to the OM or the ex, but she has policed herself to not contact them, you told her you expected absolutely no contact whatsoever, and you've verified that she has not been contacting, so I agree with you when you write: "_Otherwise it has the feel of reaching out to contact when she's made the effort, personally, to remove herself from it already."_ You'd be initiating contact to tell them No Contact!  So that's silly. 

2) Passwords/transparency


> She has been honest to me about everything. I've checked on things and found her to be truthful when they look bad on her...I told her straight up...you've forfeited any relationship friend or otherwise with these people, if you want us to go forward this is how it has to be...Should I just keep monitoring on that front...?


Usually infidelity is carried out via lying, covering up and being secretive, so one important HOOP is mutual transparency (meaning that you let you spouse see the real you, warts and all). Often that means sharing passwords and access to things like Facebook, email, etc. and I personally suggest that both spouses share--loyal and disloyal! But you say you've been able to verify honesty so that is a clue to me that you have methods to verify that her words and actions are matching. 

3) Commitment by both of you to work on your own individual issues and work to repair the marriage. 

You wrote: _"Both of us have admitted our faults and acknowledged we were both to blame for where we headed."_

Issues on your side:


> I know what our problems were before. I resented her for me being a father too early. I didn't know how to be a good boyfriend and I wasn't ready to be a dad, no matter how much I lied and said I was. That turned into about 5 years of anger, putdowns, and a general hatred of life on my part....When she hit me with the initial separation news I flashed out of my funk and have been on the upclimb since. Even when I found out about the affairs and the boyfriend I was in a better place then I was a few years back.


Issues on her side:


> She hung as long as she could trying to be the positive one, but it was too much. She was being too clingy and I was being too distant. She was made to be mom and mom only and wasn't leaving time for herself, and that started a resentment from her for me...


For a marriage to be rebuilt, both spouses need to look at themselves (not at "what their spouse did") and agree to work on their own issues. Often one spouse or the other won't look at what they did to contribute...or if they look, they just will NOT work on it or go to counseling if they need it. They'd rather deny it, sweep it under the rug, pretend nothing happened, or blame their spouse. Well in you instance you can identify and voice your own issues and you sound willing to work on yourself and change them. In addition, it sounds like she can voice the things that built the resentment in her and from what you say it sounds like she's willing to work on herself to change too. 

The idea of HOOPS, is actually a very tricky one because it is reasonable for a disloyal spouse to experience the natural consequences of their affair. It is NOT reasonable for a loyal spouse to punish their spouse. Thus, it's a fine line--you don't want to keep score and "make them pay" yet at the same time, it makes sense for some things that were involved in the initial temptation to change in order to protect you both! I think really, the biggest key overall is Mutual United Understanding. The fact is that this marriage is between YOU and YOUR WIFE, and if the two of you reach an understanding about which you are mutually enthusiastic and united--then you two are rebuilding YOUR marriage...YOURS, not ours.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

One of the things that made me know for certain is her steadafstness for doing counselling after the baby is born. She is very against it, but she knows how much it'll help me and our relationship. Heck, last night she saw me being down about something and she started to tear up. That's the way she used to always be like with me.

I finally had a long talk with her and laid some things out. I also told her that I will try and stay with her after the baby is born no matter what. It was something I spent two weeks agonizing and deciding so I truly feel it is what is in me. She didn't cry as much as I expected/feared, and I assumed it was because she doesn't fully believe what I said. I asked her the next day and she said she does so there's my imagination again.
I really hope that I gauged my feelings correctly because there's only 4 weeks left before the birth.
My days are getting better too, I only think about her being with another man 3-4 times instead off 50-100 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Quick update
wife had a doctors appointment to set up the delievery date yesterday. It's going to be Oct 25th which just so happens to be the day after my birthday. So this has the potential to be a good birthday or a horrible birthday. Hawkeyes vs Badgers in c. football, Brock Lesnar vs Cain Valasquez ufc 121 all on Saturday, and the Bears play the Redskins on Sunday. Then baby mine/not mine on Monday.

either way, much drinking will be had that weekend 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

josh i m sorry to hear your condition..

well i think .. u r one of the best man in this world by taking the neglected children. 

ur love beats every of her sin. since you choose to stay with her, just go on with your decision. so far you've done great on coping the infidelity.

if i were u, i already leave her and build the new life and erasing her out of this life. but Thanks God, u r the man who is 180 different to me. 

carry on my friend.


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## Wolf359 (Jun 10, 2010)

I would get a PI or friend to follow her for a few days, when you are gone. To see what she does, with you not being there. Check everything, car, phones, computer, ect... one last time. To put it all to rest. Love makes you blind sometimes in life. I do not wish you to get hurt again. I know somebody that had a very similar problem like you. In the end she needed very extensive therapy, to get away from cheating. It almost killed him in the end. (I think of the story of the scorpion and the turtle when I read your posts about her). I also, would step up to help her with the kid too, but she needs help first.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Hi josh its been awhile,
I can't wait to find out the baby is yours, or I can wait to find out its not. 
I just got a shot in the heart this week, W told me that her & good friend cheated more then the one time she told me about.

But after afew days of feeling that cold feeling while I lay next to her at night I pulled my head out of my butt. I got some good advice here(TAM) and it's working. 

Yesterday I want so much to make comments and ask more questions about her past affairs, but you know I have to move on b/c the more attention I show her the more affection I am getting back and and that is worth alot to the marriage. 
Right now I have to have faith in her, so no more questions, no more snide cheating comments, and no more thinking about what she is not telling me. 
If she had a gang bang, I don't want to know any more, what ever she did in the past is past. For 7 month now its been nothing but interigations from me and thats not who I am. After our last talk (the good friend) I cant handle another confession. she had bad behaviors, I had bad behaviors, end of story LETS MOVE ON!
Now I have to come to grips that the feeling of betrayal will be there just like the house will never be clean all the time when I come home. no expectation. How can a guy stop those feelings when he has to keep one eye open for the next vampire to come along and try to steal his wife, along with a W that can act one way and behave another way? You just keep plowing along for the sake of you own self worth and provide respect for each other.
I can forgive, but I wont forget, I cant, I can however change my thought process from negitive thoughts of "migets and circus clowns doing my wife" 10 or 12 times a day to "she is affectionate and giving toward me" and "loves me" along with "we will have a good future together".
Good luck on the baby thing.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Hey guy
I suggest staying the course on if you want to know everything or not. That seems to be something many people on her have a differing opinion about. If the questions start to nag at you and affect your day then you probably should ask because somewhere inside, you do want to know. If not then by all means stay away from that bull because it's not a fun ride 

I am, in some way, glad you found out there was more to the story then you were getting. Yeah it sucks that you had to be struck like that, but in the same sense now you have the feeling that you are being accompanied fully in your journey of honesty and healing, which is a great feeling to have. So my best to you on your healing.

I think I'm in the same boat as you on waiting for this child. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

So today's our anniversary. We're leaving soon for dinner and to do some activities. Kind of excited how things have been progressing lately.
My wife and I had a serious talk about things the other evening that was great. She told me she was so sorry about things, and when I said I know you are she got very serious and said, "no I am very sorry about things. I want you to really understand that" 
She then began to tell me that she did so many bad things to me that I never deserved what she did. She said she doesn't know why this ever happened and the she had thought the person who was doing this had been gone forever. She said she married me because I made her want to be abetter person and she thought she was with me by her side. She told me things got way out of control and she never thought they could get back. She thanked me for staying the course with her and that if the roles were reversed she didn't see it working out the same.
I just told her that I loved her then and still do now and that I made
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Cont** a comittment to her that I planned on honoring as long as she let me. 
This talk made me feel very good about our chances and her level of comittment to me. She'd told me she was sorry before, but this was a different kind of level of sorry and it was good to hear it.
we also ran some talks about the upcoming baby too which is way to much to get into.
only 2 weeks until the c-section is scheduled....very scared about this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

That is such a big healer, it makes all the difference when W tells us those things. A day doen't go by with out her saying "thank you for loving her" or "thank you for stay & forgiving". I would say about every other day I still hear an apoligy for what she has done. 
I have read other threads and folks want to know how to get past the hurt of infidelity, and it is my take, that the wayward spouse has alot to do with it, obvisously, I quess I just needed to say it.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

my wife went out by herself with some friends for the first time since we've really buckled down trying to work this out...it's a friend of hers 21st birthday and a small group of them are out celebrating it. I'm really not to bad with this. She's been doing alot to regain and keep my trust these last 10 months. I think that her being very large pregnant has alot to do with my comfortability with this. I really don't think I'd be ok with this right now if she wasn't pregnant. I know I'd be really paranoid and going crazy right now, but instead I've been watching football and the UFC all evening, and cooking out with my boys. This pregnancy coming to an end is getting me pretty spooked. I'm not sure how my feelings will change when this is over. I have a strong comfortability in our situation right now. I know she'd kind of have to be more needing this to work while she's pregnant and less inclined to move on. I'm also pretty tired and my thoughts are all over the place right now. I've been thinking more and more lately about her cheating on me. Visualizing and imagining things that've happened. Everyday it gets closer to this baby being born; these thoughts are getting stronger. I'm feeling more and more anxious every day. I'm really afraid with how I'm going to freak the day this happens...probably Thursday.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Me too and it sucks
I have to force those thoughts out. I think about the affection I'm getting from her and the the good things she is doing.

I had a real bad spell on Friday, for some reason the cheating kept coming up in my head, but each time I thought "ok stop" and "we are going to have fun doing this and that" 

I would start to think about the positive side of her. Like she is not a bad person, it is not in her character to be the why she was she. She had bad behaviors/dicisions, and with my past neglect I would say it was out of self preservation. 

She cheated for attention, kisses, and even sex what she really wanted was me. She wanted me to do those thing to her.

So Josh I hope it helps, we all get those feeling and we just need to not forget but to think about a better future with attention, kisses, and sex.


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## ldbg102 (Oct 15, 2010)

What did you guys do to get her to see the error of her ways?


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

ldbg102 said:


> What did you guys do to get her to see the error of her ways?



We were stuck in a lease together. Neither of us wanted to leave the kids and she had nowhere to go. She fully still planned on leaving me when the lease was up. Then she found out she was pregnant. My response " I love you, and we can work on this" FF's response-" get an abortion or give me the kid because you are too stupid to have it"
I have a feeling that is the moment her "fog" lifted and she said, what the hell am I doing?
it wasn't until that moment that we had a chance. Because until then it was just me trying to keep us moving forward, then when she joined me it made a world of difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I starting caring about her, I confronted her with the evidence and she completely stopped. 
I never really gave a dam about her, she really never gave a dam about them, until one day I wanted to change things in my life.
So I started talking to my wife, I mean I started listening to my wife. 
We both agreed to reconnect and begin to really care for each other in every way.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

So the answer to the question is;
I saw the errors in my ways, changed by behavior and she already knows her errors, she knew it was bad and imoral. That is why she could never get attached to these guys the were just as imoral as her.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

My birthday is today and the baby is being born via c-section tomorrow at 7:15 am. I am freaking out and can feel my anxiety growing. This is going to be a huge moment in my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

So, Josh, this might be an excellent day to play the "Worst Possible Scenario" game. What would be the worst possible thing that could happen tomorrow? Let's see, the child of the woman you love and to whom you have made a lifelong covenant is born, and the child is not of your age, race, gender or religion (heehee--I'm being politically correct there  ). Okay so it is clear on sight that the baby is not yours and someone else donated sperm for him/her. This is still the baby you watched blowing bubbles and felt flipping and kicking for the last nine months. This is still the baby you've talked to and read to and dreamed of what he/she might be when he/she grows up. This is still the baby who will smile at you, burp on your shoulder, and call you "Da Da." This is still the baby who will snuggle up to you at 3am because he/she recognizes your voice. 

So WORST case scenario, this is still the child you will love, raise, and have the privilege of being his/her father all the days of their life. 

Every other scenario is better than that.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

My worst case is that same, but I don't handle the other guy being in his life and I grow resentful and angry again and my marriage crumbles because I couldn't handle my own pressure. It wasn't easy accepting my oldest as my own and I didn't have to deal with "the sperm donor"....which is also a constant reminder of the infidelities. And this is if we can even determine the race of him right away. We were told it's sometimes not easy to tell.
This baby will be born in two hours..................I am so frightened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

The baby is born and Mom is doing ok....so far the visual test on the baby is inconclusive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

So if the baby is visually not a vivid reminder of another person or another age, race, gender or religion (lol) I say look for mom's eyes or mom's cute little nose. Look for MOM in the baby's features and see if you see the woman you love peering back at you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think AC is right on, and thank God you dont have a green kid with anttenias, so you got that going for you;-)
Are you still going through with the test?


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes a test will be done still.

my wife told me today she doesn't believe the baby is mine. He has that f!*@s ears and his skin is starting to darken. I feel so stupid for letting my guard down about this. I should have waited until everything was set to get my hopes up. We are still going to try I guess....i really don't know what I'm doing anymore....this is very recent and fresh. My spirit feels deflated. I feel like someone's died. This baby has the name we'd picked out for our kid.......I feel so low and defeated right now.......just.....down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Just be sure to immediately contest paternity. Whether you want to stay or not. Do not let her give your name on the Birth certificate until you are sure. You need to protect yourself legally. Someday you can adopt it if you decide to stay. Remember that she is a serial cheater. Whats to say that the next child won't be someone else' too? It would definitely be to much for me.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

He will be taking a paternity test so we don't have to pay for it. My last name isn't going on anything....just the first and middle name we had picked out
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

My wife told me that she talked to him last night when we talked. I didn't take it well and we got into it pretty good. I told her I wasn't sure if I could handle this.
Today she told me he is planning on stopping to see her and the baby at the hospital. She says she hates him and all that jazz, but I still can't help but feel uneasy about him being around her. It makes me very angry to think about.
I feel better about us today after texting her for a few hours this morning, but who really knows right now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Exactly WHY does the OM need to see her? I understand he needs to do some procedures for paternity (scrape his cheek), and by extension I could understand stopping to see the baby. After all, it may or may not be his child. But I see no reason he needs to see your wife. Maintaining No Contact is forever and an absolute, remember, josh1081?

For you, I have some very STRONG suggestions. I realize your wife committed adultery in the past and this baby may be a result of that infidelity, but her wrong in the past does not give you the right to sling Love Extinguishers at her in the present. This isn't a request--as an adult and a man you are responsible for how you act and what you say, so you have GOT to do whatever you need to do in order to get a grip on yourself. It simply is not acceptable to allow yourself to treat your wife poorly when her actions in the present have been respectful to you. 

Now, it is reasonable to say "I can't be here right now" or "This is too much for me, I need some time away." It is NOT reasonable to get into it with a lady who just had a baby and is still recovering -AND- who has been actively repentant in word and deed. So get a grip, be honest about what you can and can not take, but DON'T take your issues out on her! Get to a therapist if you must! The baby can have her maiden name as a last name, and if you adopt, then you can add your last name by a deliberate choice of love. THIS behavior--yelling and fighting in the hospital--is not her issue and is not cool. Okay? You can do this.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I would be gone. She is going to bond with the OM. She says she hates him. Oh yeah, she just gave birth to the product of her hate. Hate is not the opposite of love, apathy is.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Wow AC, I feel like I just got reemed by my mom for being dumb (this is not an insult but respect in my book, for my mom is in high status to me). 
I understand I was acting wrong and poorly as a person. We weren't yelling or arguing at the hospital because I am very self conscious of other people. Our talk was done via text while I was at work. Not an excuse just clarification. Not excused at all. 
I will be starting therapy sometime in January. That's when I qualify to re-enroll in my insurance and they cover councelling. Otherwise I can't afford it at all, especially with my wife not working for the next few months. But this is something we are both wanting to do, and something I need to do even if we don't work out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

I really don't know what to do anymore. I love my wife and want to be with her, but this is so difficult. I am so sad right now. I want to and feel like crumbling and sobbing, but I can't....like something is blocking me from releasing....so sad.
Everytime I look at this baby I don't see me, this is so obviously not my son. I don't see my wife in him either.....just....that other "man". 
How can I do this? I see this boy and am constantly reminded of wrongs. My wife deserves better, but wants that to be me. I don't know what to do anymore. This is not what I'd prepared myself for....I never could have forseen feeling this sad.
I don't take things out on my wife or kids...like you said, extinguishers. No sense of ruining this if I can get through it. It just seems so hopeless right now....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Josh,
I hope this helps.
Can you see your self has a guy that is good and caring? Someone that likes to help people in need? how many times have you helped a buddy out?

So for today you are just going to help a buddy out, (I know its your wife) and that buddy has a baby. You may not know what do do right now, but helping a buddy out is noble, and something you don't have to commite to, right know, there is plenty of time to go from buddies back to best freinds, 

You will find your self and will handle this. It may not be in favor of your wife, but you will handle this, thats what buddies do.

Take care of your self 1st and when you have time help a buddy out, once in a while.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I agree with "the guy's" analogy about helping out "a buddy." You know there are single guys who's live-in girlfriends run out and BAM they are single dads! Try to envision your wife along this line--helping out a good friend who just has no good place to turn to. Or what if you just met her and she had a child. Clearly it would be someone else's child, but she has qualities of a woman you love and you even have feelings for her. 

But Josh, I think one way you may be able to get past seeing "the Other Man" and seeing your son would be to think of him as an adoption. Now, I am the whitest of white women myself--I have reddish-auburn hair and I'm a German, so other than being blonde-haired/blue-eyed I'm Caucasian. But that would in no way preclude me from adopting a baby of color and absolutely adoring it! Creamy coffee colored, tan colored, deep-dark black--that has absolutely no bearing on who my adopted child would be in his heart or in my life. Neither would it have any bearing who his sperm donor or egg donor where, other than perhaps some medical history kinds of things. YOU are not your mom and dad--you are YOU. This child is not the genes that collided to create him--he is a dearly beloved child of God, and he is the little boy who will coo when you feed him and cuddle with you. He is the little boy who will laugh at his first birthday as he smears the cake you baked him into his hair. He is the little boy who will RUN home after school to show you the "A" he got on the science project you worked on with him. 

When you look at him, see THAT boy.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

So things have been pretty up and down lately. I haven't been coping well with all of this. The first week was very bad and we were back to being roomates again. I have really enjoyed the way this has amplified my relationship with my two boys though.
We had an indepth discussion the other night and I am feeling better about things at the moment. I am very bad about repressing my feelings and letting it effect relationships. But when I let it out, I let it out and feel better for it.
My wife is getting ready to leave right now to meet him so he can see his baby. She was going to go to his place to do it but I said no and now she is going to do it somewhere public. (the mall) I was not comfortable with her being at his place and I'm kind of glad she saw this my way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm not going to lie. I fully expected to beat this guy within an inch, the first time I came in contact with him. I told my wife I was going to, that there was nothing she could do to stop me, and I prepared myself for the legal repercussions. I needed to vent this way because I am so pent up that I feel that that rage and anger is the only way I can get it out.
I came to a new realization the other day though.........I won already. I could destroy this puny guy at any time I please. But I have the woman he wanted to have. I have his baby to raise how I see fit, and I am going to be getting money from him to do all that. I don't see any kind of revenge on someone who's wronged me that is better then that. It's not about getting revenge but this is a kind of closure for me. I look at the baby differently now then I have been, and I'm glad for that cuz he didn't do any of this to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

He didn't show up. She waited in the parking lot at a restaurant to meet and he didn't show. She tried to call for over an hour and his phone was going straight to VM. She was very angry about driving 30 mins to meet halfway and him not showing. She considers this a glimpse into how things are going to be, and she just wanted this to be a smooth business type thing.
He called the next day and offered a lame excuse about dropping his phone in the toilet, even though he was almost there when she'd last talked to him. That didn't make sense to me. He was leaving for Florida the next day and now I'm kinda wondering his motives for this.
I gave my wife some stipulations for me being ok with this arrangement. First was that they are never to be at his place alone. They don't need to be making family time like that.
the second was that this never interferes with our family time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Can anyone think of something else I need to be strong and unbending about? I respect the fact that the 'donor' has rights because he wants to be involved and so far he seems to not want to rock the boat with me. Things will be made legal but I'm not the kind of person to deny him seeing the baby because I can't deny this isn't mine.
I have all the power in this situation and I won't allow myself to be manipulated or pushed around. I told her that everything discussed between them is public between me and her because I have been kept in the dark too much in our relationship and I'm done with that. She told me that's more then understandable and she has to win my trust back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Do you have anyone that can be a witness. I mean someone that will go along for visitation, someone that won't beat the grap out of this guy?
I just think that having W go alone is a bad idea.

I have a feeling that this OM will fade away leaving you holding the bag, is that such a bad thing? Will this guy really support this kid($$$)? I think he's going to be history, and you won't feel so bad about there "relationship". My take is this guy will deglect his child and it will be easier for you to stop worring about his feelings and stay focused on more important things. 
In my experience time will fly by and this guy will never get to know his kid and he will doing his own thing, espeacially when you hit him up for money.
So there is one thing you can be stong about and that is the dollar amount you expext from him. With that said he will be gone!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> ...You are truly in a tight spot. Your decision is yours alone. You know that. I can only tell you about what I know from experience. Your wife is very confused. It is time for clarity.


This is QFT (quoted for truth) :iagree:

Just so you know, we offer encouragement and support and strength to do the hard things, but in the end YOU live there and it is YOUR life. This would be something YOU (and your wife and the baby) would have to live with every day. So this is absolutely your decision and yours alone. You will reap the benefits and the consequences of any decision you make, so just know that we're here to encourage you. 



> If you are to raise this child as yours and hers, then the OM has no place in this life. Your wife should have no contact with him for the rest of her life. He cannot be part of you and her. Damn the finances. He will probably not pay anyway. She cannot connect with him and expect you to be her husband, provider, and protector. You have every right to walk off. No on will expect anything different. If you decide to stay, be this child's father, then you and you alone are her husband. Make a stand now.


Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't sound like your wife is not trying to reconnect with former OM or anything. Based on the way you've described it here, the genetics of the child are such that she is trying to inform the sperm donor that there is a child that is his and offer whatever right he might have. *However*, if you two were married at the time of the conception, that means the husband is "assumed" father and to get child support you'd have to prove paternity (in most states). If the sperm donor is willing to voluntarily terminate parental rights, that means that he has no contact with the baby and is out of your lives...and to him it means he can never be hunted down for child support. 

From there, the last name on the birth certificate can be your wife's maiden name, if you're not ready josh, and some time in the future, when and if you are ready to adopt, you can do that. And by the way...I am not advocating letting a father "off the hook" of his responsibilities or denying him his parental rights, but rather an alternative that in this case may meet the needs of everyone involved. If he were to be out of your lives, that means the marriage could recover in peace and with some time perhaps you'd see the baby as what he is: an innocent baby who thinks of you as "daddy.'


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

I will respond to all of this later

right now my wife and I are texting each other pretty emotionally and questioning our desire to keep this afloat. She has been hiding smoking from me and lying about not doing it. I know I'm not her dad and she can do this if she wants but it's kind of a 'if you lie about this now then what stops you from doing it later when you really don't want me to know something' thing right now.
This has gone not how I've planned
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Quick update
things have been much better lately. My wife and I took a weekend trip to Minneapolis to see Daniel Tosh and had a nice time. We did alot of relationship talking on the car ride. There have been a few cases where we've gotten 'into it'. She's stated that she is afraid I'll leave, and she doesn't think I can handle this anymore. But, IMO, we've had many more good then bad days. 
The baby is a month old now and I held him for the first time a few hours ago. My wife is Black Friday shopping and I said I'd watch the baby. Mostly to get myself over that hump of acceptance but also because it's better he be here then out.
I don't know what our future holds but I feel better about my personal chances.
On a side note...December is coming soon and that was the month of the A. I am a little apprehensive about how I will react but hope it's ok. I am not jazzed that she still has to keep in contact with him, but her telling me, FINALLY, that she doesn't like him and she wishes she didn't have to deal with
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

*cont*
him ever did my alot of good. Her also saying that getting into these same discussions about the same things over and over again is desensitizing her to the situation woke me up alot too. I am dwelling too much and need to start moving forward.
I have made plans to get lasik eye surgery next year and am also going to start back at the gym. That coupled with us doing marriage counselling makes me feel very positive about the upcoming year.
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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Good to hear from you,
I'll tell you, the best thing me &W did was sit in a car together for 5 hours, on our way to Vages. I don't think the radio was on once. I totaly recommend a nice trip in a long car ride to reconnect with DS.

Confronting my wife on Feb. 2010, which means a whole year of dealing with this is coming up also, I feel you.

I'm still dealing with the dark thoughts (a litttle now), but I don't have that constant reminder you have. So Josh stay strong, like you have been and remember other are counting on you. 

I two, will be getting rid of my glasses, as soon as I pay of some bills. The working out thing has been great for my self esteem, so go for it. I feel better knowing I look better mainly for W. She love grapping my chest and arms, it feels good to have that affection back, and that lust in her eyes for me and me only.

Got a go I have crows pecking at my roof, and need to get the pelllet gun out. all the best Josh


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Flex Spending Account....that's how I'm getting mine done. There's no way I could justify saving up that much to myself when I could spend it on the kids or something. It's like governmental financing without all the nonsense 


quick update....my wife meets with this guy for a few hours every Saturday so he can see his kid, it's in a public place per my request/demand. He had a discussion with her about what she will do with the baby when she goes back to work in January. His plan was to pay for daycare while she's at work, then when he gets off he picks up the kid and when she gets off then she takes him back. The idea was given to me by her for approval. I saw it as a practical solution to a problem, but I'm sure it will open many doors to problems.
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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You are definitly opening doors, and dealing with this sh*t head for the convienence of day care is a bad idea, look at the big picture here and not just solving one problem (day care)

This guy got involved with a married woman and the consequences for that should be no cantact with the child. None at all! Sorry charlie, your kid is my kid now, so bye bye. I bett legally thats how the courts would see it?

Sorry Josh, this is upseting. So I can't even imagin what you are going through. 

Again, bad idea on the daycare thing.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

So I'm back to square one it seems. 

I got into my wife's facebook today and she had been having a conversation with a friend of hers. She told her that I hate her and she's holding on because ending an 8 year relationship is hard. She then went on to say that she still wants to be with the baby's dad.........I really don't know what to do now.
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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Josh 

You have one choice only.. 

You have a copy ready, you sit with her and say this was on the internet and can she please explain to you what is going on. 

She either commits 100% publicly and privately to you and the marriage or she goes. Committing to you means she goes for intensive counseling every week and starts filling up your lovebank. 

Furthermore she apologies to all for her statements whether she stays or not.

In the interim invoke hard NC with the OM she is not over him, you do not care if he has legal access to the baby he is affecting your marriage. The baby can be given to the OM at the end of the driveway and handed back at the end of his visitation rights.


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Follow Eli-Zor instructions Josh! 

NC means NC !


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

josh1081 said:


> So I'm back to square one it seems.
> 
> I got into my wife's facebook today and she had been having a conversation with a friend of hers. She told her that I hate her and she's holding on because ending an 8 year relationship is hard. She then went on to say that she still wants to be with the baby's dad.........I really don't know what to do now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell her "Its not that hard to end an eight relationship. Watch. We're through. Now that wasn't to hard. Was it". She is using you as a security blanket. Time to cut her loose.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Yes you do!!!!


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

So we had a conversation for a few hours. She told me she was lying to her friend, but I haven't quite figured out why yet. She told me she's been unhappy with me for a very long time. She said also that she's unhappy with herself which makes it hard for her to be happy with us, she said it's seemd like I've hated her for awhile now, but that she still loves me and wants this to work because of that. I don't know really what to take of all that was discussed. It all happened quickly and I was very unprepared for it
I'm sure there will be more to come.....
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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Josh I hear what you say I however do not think you must believe your wife, are you running any form of Plan A or marriage recovery programme?

Did she say more to you? As for lying to her friend a written apology with you present sent to her friend, copied to you should enable her to understand this is required to disperse stories. 

Please change the OM's access arrangements , there must be no contact between your wife and him, your marriage and your ability to be the father of the child is at risk. A hint when the child is old enough he calls the OM by his first name and you dad, it cements the boundary. Today if you are not refering to the child as your son then start, your wife will notice.

What are the existing arrangements, is the OM paying child support and is there a legal framework in place?


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

I don't have time right now to read responses for I am at work...I will later.
I really think she is on her way out. She keeps telling me that she is so unhappy with herself and how she was because she cared that little about me to do those things. She sounds very negative about our future together with the way she words texts and speaks things now. I realize I am partly to blame for it geting this way because I've been nothing but a drag down for the last year. I will see this through till the end, but every conversation we seem to have just points towards divorcing because I am not interested in separating...I know all that will be is her running off to him and I'm not waiting around to do that again.......
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

So the new news is that he got parts for my wife's car and had it fixed. She told me about it because she wanted to be honest. She said she didn't want to, but we can't afford to get it fixed and she needs it for the children. I agreed it was best off that it got done, but obviously it hurt me that it was done and we talked about that.

The bad thing that happened is my wife put a lock code on her phone again, and then we talked about that and it came out, after ALOT, of prying that he sent her a message that he loved her. I wish I could have seen the response to it, but everything was deleted. 

So now I have the Facebook message that she still wants to be with him, the car thing, and him telling her he loves her going on. On top of the 'she's still unhappy and distrusting I've changed' thing.....what am I doing anymore???

I really want a bottle of whiskey and a big FML right now.
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

I want dibbs on my 100 comment milestone.....even though I think about 85 of them are me 

She also cancelled on seeing him today. She left to see him and called me crying a short while later saying she just had been sitting in a parking lot crying. She told me she is getting tired of dealing with everything and everyone.
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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Having this guy in her life and yours is a mess, its no wonder. She will continue to feel cunfused b/c OM is still influencing her emotions. She still thinks OM wants her, and OM does at his conveinence (remember). She also knows OM is not stable enough, you are. 

Rid your self of this influence. I can imagine it is conveinent, but come on. This is not the why to live, this is not a healthly way for her to live. Your wife is torn apart, and OM is not helping your family(in the long run). Everytime he helps with daycare and the car thing he still has a hold on her, emotioally at least. He's coming off as a provider only at his convience. Tell your wife to stop asking him for things.

You know were I stand, remember OM played with a married woman and now his consequence is not being able to see his kid. Screw his right and all that that BS, he diserves nothing. I would make it a court order. If memory serves me correctly, his name isn't even on the birth cert. 

Thats my $0.02 and is it just me or do others see it the same way.


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## Dowjones (Sep 16, 2010)

josh1081 said:


> I want dibbs on my 100 comment milestone.....even though I think about 85 of them are me
> 
> She also cancelled on seeing him today. She left to see him and called me crying a short while later saying she just had been sitting in a parking lot crying. She told me she is getting tired of dealing with everything and everyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Josh, you need desperately to man the f**k up!! This woman has been playing you for a fool, f**king another guy, and living in your home, and all you do is whine. Kick her to the curb, you'll feel better about yourself, and might find a good honest woman , who is not a HO.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Josh
Say to your wife from now on there is no contact with the OM, it is best for her, the baby and you.

She stays with you and does not call him, if he wants to communicate he sends you an email, not her. 

Do this now it will settle both of you and help your marriage.

You have to take the bull by the horns and change the boundaries to protect the family, your wife may not like it now but she will love you for it later.

Josh what is happening at the moment is you are losing your marriage. With the OM in the picture saying he loves her, fixing her car he is buying her love. The has to be permanent no contact .


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Great f*cking idea Eli-Zor

Josh, If you continue to involve OM w/kid, it should go through you!

I bet he's gone with in days, I also bet its about her and not the kid.


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

TAM's doormat with an update

I don't doubt that everything is about the kid. I think him making a play for her is just so he can have the baby as much as possible. He's told her on a few occasions that she should just give him the baby and forget about it all...he's just trying to manipulate it. He's a used car salesman.

Wife and I have had quite a few long talks here lately. I told her the situation we are in right now isn't working out, and it's time for us to separate. In a few months (financial constraints) she will be moving out to live on her own. We have lay down schedules for the kids staying with whom. 
I told her that the way things are going now is just the equivalant of being stuck in the mud. The tires are spinning and we're going nowhere. Both of us need to find some sort of self identity and worth and it's not going to happen with how things are now. She said she wants to do MC while we are living apart and try to get us back on track, but I told her she can't do that until she forgives
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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

***cont
herself for what happened. We had a very long talk about her not coming to grips with what happened and what she did and it's something that weighs on her an unbelievable amount. She tries to carry the majority of the blame, and I told her that the only blame she has to carry is stepping out on us. The rest of it is equal.

so to summarize, wife moving out, working on myself, and I don't have to be a weekend only dad. 

I am actually kind of excited about this to be honest. I think it's good for us and best for me.
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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Are you hoping to reconcile in the future ???


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Josh,
I just wanted to pat you on the back and wish you well. After stuggling since July.'09 I think.....you deserve good things and it appears your wife hasn't help much. So you go out there and kick some but and take some names. You will find what you are looking for and it most likely will be with out your W. If it is with her,then great, but after reviewing some of your past threads it just seems like problem after problem with her. 

So good luck and go get'em


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## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

rome2012 said:


> Are you hoping to reconcile in the future ???




It's the plan. Really can't say one way or the other until she moves and we try counselling. Might not even go to counselling after she moves. Kinda a wait and see I guess.
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