# Seeking Advice



## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Hello,

I have recently found this forum and have been reading for several days after my wife of six years decided to move in with her parents for some space to take a break from our marriage. She has told me that I have not been affectionate enough and I will have to agree with this. It has been hard for me to show affection because I felt since we got married that she never wanted to take on the role of a wife. I found myself putting in most of the effort around the house as well as caring for our daughter who was born two years ago because my wife is a nurse who works night shifts. I understand that I should have shown more emotion and affection. We are scheduled to meet with a MC next week but in the mean time she is unwilling to even try to talk and resolve the issue. I have admitted my faults and apologized but she never takes any responsibility at all. Right now she has my daughter and is limiting my contact with her. She has said part of her wants to work this out, but part of her does not because she feels she has freedom now to do anything she wants. Just looking for some advice on what to do next.

Thanks


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Pick up the book, "His Needs, Her Needs" and read it, think ofer what needs she has that ou've not met and how it's impacted her, and then ASK (don't tell) her to read it. Engage yourself wholly into MC, and ensure your wife knows this, that you are committed to making this work. Don't hold back your feelings in MC, but do a LOT of listening. You will hear what you need to know if you approach it as a place to safely air your issues, and potentially to resolve them.

All of this sounds like it's making it about her, and not you - and it is, because imho from how this sounds you've got a tough road ahead and if you want her you'd better be prepared for it. Of course your need must come into the discussion too, but I'd start with hers... the comment about having the freedom to whatever she wants is a big giant red flag to me that there is more to this time apart than simply getting space to clear her head. I'd be as vigilant as possible from afar about what she is doing with her time while at her parents with a built-in babysitter.

And the bs with "limiting your contact" with your daughter would not fly with me for one moment. I'd be adamant about having daddy time... even if it meant getting legal help to do so. Your marriage issues hve nothing to do with your relationship with your daughter. Don't let the precedent get set in anyone's mind.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

That last part of yours is odd. Her having the freedom to do whatever she now wants because she is no longer at home with you plus not allowing you contact with your daughter are deep issues and not because you aren't affectionate enough with her as you stated initially. 

There's something else going on there.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> Right now she has my daughter and is limiting my contact with her.


Huge red flag in my opinion. Do not let her gatekeeper your child...she doesn't own the kid and has zero right to do this.

Assert your rights as a father and insist on being with your child 50% of the time. 

I would never continue a relationship with someone who used our kids as pawns in an argument.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Tell her that you are willing to work on your marital issues together with her - so you can both be happy and work on the problems equally. Acknowledge your part. Suggest marriage counselling.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Thanks for the input everyone.

I think the statement about her having freedom goes back to the fact that ever since we got married she was always making plans and letting me know last minute. Many time these plans did not include me and often I would complain to her that it would be nice if we could spend time together or have family meals together. Well I guess this made her feel guilty and this is why she's proclaiming about having freedom.

I think at this point she is fence-sitting. She says she's afraid if she comes back home things will just be the same as before and I'm concerned about this on her end too. I'm just wondering if she's looking for me to show emotion and tell her I need her and miss her, or beg her to come home. Mabey I would be better off using the 180. I have told her by her leaving and not communicating with me we will never work through this.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Is she having an affair?


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

I don't think she is, but I can't be 100% sure. I have done some checking up on her without her knowing and so far I have not found anything alarming. She describes herself as a social person and likes to be with friends often. I am more of a homebody who likes to relax but I do enjoy going out sometimes too.

I know I have said things I should not have and did not always show affection, but she has never apologized to me for anything during our marriage. I can only remember 1 or 2 times where she actually admitted she was at fault. She has me feeling like I am the only one to blame for all of this.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Alpha said:


> That last part of yours is odd. Her having the freedom to do whatever she now wants because she is no longer at home with you plus not allowing you contact with your daughter are deep issues and not because you aren't affectionate enough with her as you stated initially.
> 
> There's something else going on there.


It sounds like there is someone else in the picture.
You may need a lawyer so you get 50/50 custody.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Motic said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have recently found this forum and have been reading for several days after *my wife of six years decided to move in with her parents for some space to take a break from our marriage. *She has told me that I have not been affectionate enough and I will have to agree with this. It has been hard for me to show affection because I felt since we got married that she never wanted to take on the role of a wife. I found myself putting in most of the effort around the house as well as caring for our daughter who was born two years ago because *my wife is a nurse who works night shifts.* I understand that I should have shown more emotion and affection. We are scheduled to meet with a MC next week but in the mean time *she is unwilling to even try to talk and resolve the issue.* I have admitted my faults and apologized but she never takes any responsibility at all. *Right now she has my daughter and is limiting my contact with her.* She has said part of her wants to work this out, but part of her does not because *she feels she has freedom now to do anything she wants.* Just looking for some advice on what to do next.
> 
> Thanks


Oh boy.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

She is probably cheating. Go with that and find out who it is. Accept no blame. In fact, go dark on her. This is psychological warfare. So long as you beg, etc. She has no reason to consider reality of divorce. She has all the power until you 180 on her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Since she is not letting you see your child, you need to see an attorney and get an interim custody and time sharing plan in place for 50/50. 

What she's doing with your child is wrong. If you are not careful, she could end up with primary or 100% custody and you just end up paying child support.

Only after that's in place and you have equal time with your child do you consider going to counseling. 


Go talk to a lawyer as soon as you can. In many states one parent does not have the right to remove a child from the family home. You might be able to get an emergency court hearing and have your child returned to your home. Then your wife can fight for some visitation.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think your old lady is trying to replace you as a husband and as a father. Keeping you away from your kid is in her crazy mind helping her new guy connect with her kid. Currently your wife has little concern to keep the family unit together, hence increasing her bond with the new man by limiting your interaction with her and you guys kid.

My advice get a lawyer fight for your kid and let your old lady reap what she sows.



C


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

They are right. What she is doing is unconscionable if you are a good and loving father.

Let her go and protect your son. She will fill his head with lies over time to justify her leaving... And likely bring another man into the mix who will have access while you do not. That is not someone you want back. 

Pull out the stops to demonstrate that you will move mountains for your child. She will try to twist that into something else but let the facts speak for themselves.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Just wanted to post an update on what's going on. And would like some opinions on the situation.

When she initially decided to leave she left with my daughter. She has been allowing me to see her when she works and our schedules do not conflict. So to say I have not seen my daughter is not exactly true, however I do not have access to my daughter whenever I want to talk to or see her. In fact I have had to call my wife at night to tell my daughter good night. I told my wife this is not right and fair to me since she was the one who wanted to leave our home. She insists that there is nothing wrong with the arrangement and says she should be able to see her as much as I can.

Then today things get even more crazy! I get off work and my wife calls telling me that she's on the way to our home to bring me my daughter. I told her I was going to be busy tonight with an appointment and asked her why she did not let me know in advance. She said she thought I would want to see my daughter. Finally she agrees that I'm busy and they head back to her parents house. Later that night I call her to tell my daughter good night and I can tell she's mad. I ask her what's wrong just to see what she says, and she proceeds to tell me this. She tells me she's upset because I do not care to see my daughter and could not believe I had more important things to do. This struck a nerve with me and I went off telling her that this is wrong and totally unfair. I cannot believe she accused me of this when she's the one who left to begin with!

What I want to is am I justified in thinking that this arrangement is unfair? Why should she to decide be able when I have acces to my daughter. I told her I cannot see her whenever I want to and she tells me I sure can and all I need to do is come over to her parents house (no thanks).


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

YES you are justified! The fight has begun, the precedents are now being set... the entire concept of her "allowing" yiu ti see your daughter needs to be removed from your vocabulary. It IS appropriate for both of you to agree on a schedule, and some protocol for how you will communicate. 

And clearly she's seeingthe marriage as over. Are you in alignment? Because if you are, it is time to cut to the chase and get on with the fight in front of you. DO NOT allow her to dictate when you will be "allowed" to see your daughter. Possession is not 9/10ths of the law when it comes to the child... but since she is living with mommy right now, you do have to insist on getting your fair share. If she challenges your desire to see your daughter, get belligerent when you disagree (not hostile, not angry, but specific and clear about your desires), and then put it in writing in an email to her so that you have a record, just in case.

And P.S.: I would advise that now is not the time to allow any "other appointments" to prevent you from seeing your daughter. What you do or don't do now will matter enormously in everyone's eyes, and maybe the court's eyes down the road. Think ahead... even if you need to take your daughter with you to "other appontments". I'm giving YOU the benefit of the doubt that this was a really important, unchangeable, necessary "appointment" to keep...


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Great points, I really appreciate the advice 2xloser.

This has all happened so fast over the last two weeks that it still hard for me to take in. We meet with the marriage counselor next week and I just made an appointment with a lawyer for next week also. I still have hope that we can work through this since were both willing to do the counseling, but I need to be pro active and get the process rolling just in case. I honestly feel my wife is doing this more to hurt/punish me for some of the mistakes I have made in the marriage. She feels I have hurt her with my lack of emotion, affection, and attention. Of course I realize there is the possibility of a PA going on and I am observing and investigating that right now.

The one thing that confuses me still is if the marriage is that bad why not just say she wants the D and not go through the counseling?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Because then she gets to claim she really tried...

This is nothing unique. If you keep in mind that they cannot be taken at their word and that they want to be seen as justified you will be less confused and more prepared.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to post an update/vent/rant on my situation. The wife and I attended some MC sessions. I was willing to do whatever it takes to save the marriage and improve myself not only for my wife but for my daughter. Wife was very angry/cold toward me during these and was not willing to work on the marriage so we stopped attending after 3 sessions. In the mean time I met with an attorney about my options and rights. After several weeks of my wife running and avoiding me we were finally able to talk about where we were headed. I found out she had also been to a lawyer and was considering a dissolution and I told her I had done the same and I could file at any time. My thinking was to let her file since she was the one that wanted this to happen. I gave her the opportunity to come back home for a week to see how things go and then we could still file, but she declined. She told me was afraid things would be the same and she could not allow herself to be close to me anymore because her heart was not in it. She also said that we never had that spark from the beginning even though we've been together for twelve years and dated for six before we married.

So a few weeks after I received her dissolution in the mail and it is very fair to me. She is not claiming my savings, investments, 401k, or even the house? she wants some of the furniture and the new car we just purchased but is taking her school loans and debt in her name. She is also proposing for 50/50 custody with no child support or spousal support. I had my attorney review it and he said it was good for me and I should agree, which I did. 

SO HERE IS WHAT"S BOTHERING ME. I know she is looking for a house now and I know what her financial situation is and her debts. I just don't think she is truly wanting this based on her actions and attitude. I am a very logical person and I keep thinking that she will not be able to afford her lifestyle and will be deep in debt. I feel guilty for this and I know I shouldn't because I'm not making her do it. I feel like she may be waiting for me to ask her to call it off but I gave her many opportunities to work on us and come back and try so I will only consider this if she comes to me. I was never completely able to rule out an EA or PA but I' don't believe they happened. I feel like she is not thinking clearly or is having some metal lapses. I am o.k. with not being married to her anymore and I now I will improve on my issues and become a better man. I know I was a good husband and provider for the family but I just didn't give her enough emotion/attention/fun. The bottom line is I am worried about what my daughter's life will be like with her and who she will bring around my daughter in the state of mid she's in. The thought of this eats away at me daily and I can't seem to get past it.

Thanks for reading.


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

Motic said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just don't think she is truly wanting this based on her actions and attitude. I am a very logical person and I keep thinking that she will not be able to afford her lifestyle and will be deep in debt.


I think you're seeing what you want to see, instead of what is right in front of you, at least so far as you have described things here. She rejects any attempt to spend time with you, doesn't want marriage counseling has given you a ridiculously generous settlement offer. Every screams that she does want to end the marriage. You should accept it and lock in the divorce settlement while you still can.

Personally, I would bet good money that there is someone else involved, and that will be revealed after the divorce is final. Of course, the story will be that they just started seeing each other after the divorce, that way she isn't a bad person. But my guess is that's why she is willing to shoulder all her debt and not ask for anything financially, she has someone else she expects will be contributing to her expenses.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

justastatistic said:


> I think you're seeing what you want to see, instead of what is right in front of you, at least so far as you have described things here. She rejects any attempt to spend time with you, doesn't want marriage counseling has given you a ridiculously generous settlement offer. Every screams that she does want to end the marriage. You should accept it and lock in the divorce settlement while you still can.
> 
> Personally, I would bet good money that there is someone else involved, and that will be revealed after the divorce is final. Of course, the story will be that they just started seeing each other after the divorce, that way she isn't a bad person. But my guess is that's why she is willing to shoulder all her debt and not ask for anything financially, she has someone else she expects will be contributing to her expenses.


Good God Man! Take this deal!
Your child will always be yours. NOBODY can take that away from you.

But this settlement is almost as good as the one my ex and I worked. 
What she does from here on in is out of your control. 

180 up and take control of your own life!!


You'll see. New man will be on the scene in a flash. 9-12 months of seeming bliss and then her world will come crashing down.
95% of the time, thats how the story ends.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Thanks for the replies.

The thing that rips me apart inside is the fact that my wife is taking half my 3 year old daughter's life away from me. I essentially will be missing out on half of her life when she not with me. Not to mention the fact that she will be exposed to my wife's affair partner/partners if she's having one. Losing my wife really does not bother me anymore. I realize now our love languages were not the same. I am acts of service and the wife was words of affirmation...etc. I did so much physically for her and our family but it was never good enough and she never wanted that. Sometimes I think I actually did too much, I was the classic nice guy. It's just hard for me to comprehend how someone can break a family apart and change a child's life forever over issues that were fixable.

I guess a lot of this is my fault. About seven year ago while we were still dating we had the same problem. We broke up because she wanted more attention/ affection..etc. Then she proceeded to have flings with 4 guys, one being a married man. She was starved for attention as she put it and they were jerks that told her what she wanted to hear. After I found out about all this she came crawling back to me but I told here I never wanted to see here again. Well she eventually earned her way back with me. I was young, nice and stupid and thought she deserved a second chance. From that point on she had done no wrong or so I thought! I SHOULD HAVE KICKED HER TO THE CURB BACK THEN AND SAVED MYSELF THE MISERY NOW! I think she has a flawed personality and will continue to repeat the same behavior in the future.

If only I could go back in time. I think the reason I took her back was because I'm not the best at meeting women and I didn't think I could find anyone better. This is one of my concerns now. I feel with my busy work schedule I may have to try the online dating or just stay single.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Heal up first.
Chase foxes later.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

I totally agree Samurai Jack! At this point I need to take some time to process my marriage/relationship before I could ever start a new one. To be honest I doubt if I could ever find myself married again.

Just a couple points I would like to throw out there because posting on this forum seems to help me organize my thoughts and feel some relief.

1. Wife is still living with her parents while I am in the marital home that we have agreed that I will be keeping in the dissolution. I continue to take care of the home/yard by myself like I have done all throughout the marriage, as well as having my daughter half the time and working full time. Wife is looking for a house now and I have my doubts if she will be responsible enough to maintain it - not my problem now. 

2. Since wife is living with her parents she has been living a carefree social life. She no longer has to cook meals, clean, do laundry, or even watch our daughter when she wants to go out. Since I work during the week I usually want to see my daughter on the weekends so I can spend time with her. Wife uses this as a time to hit the town since she has no other responsibilities.

3. I am still struggling about the fact that the wife does not seem to act or feel any guilt for all of this. Every time I see her or talk to her she acts as if this is the happiest time of her life. Even if I had done this to her (which I would never have) I am sure I would feel an overwhelming amount of guilt for my decision!


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

One other point I forgot.

4. The wife and I were married in the Catholic church and her family are devout Catholics. Before marriage we had to take the classes part of which covered the negative view of divorce and the sacred sacrament of Marriage. I find it amusing that regardless of her strong faith she does not seem to care about her religious views during this whole process.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Motic
She is in lala land at this point. The absence of the stressors between you and her are making her feel like she has done the right thing.
Once she has her own place and has to do all the things she needs to do….she’ll snap out of it.

She may be one of those people who will never admit that she did it wrong.
Let her have her nights out. 

Her fantasy pasture will catch on fire soon enough.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

SamuraiJack,

You're exactly right about not admitting she's wrong. Throughout the whole marriage she never has that I can remember. She's so stubborn and will run from her problems, not communicate and work through them. It's just amazing how the WAW will make life changing decisions with emotion instead of logic.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

I'm in a somewhat similar situation. My wife also works the nightshift as a nurse. For the past 4-5 months now she has been distant. Initially she said she was in a fog of depression when we got married. That is a tough one to swallow. Said she didn't love me like a wife should a husband and wasn't attracted...that it happened over the past two years while I've been so busy (small business owner) with the businesses I started, to include the most recent which was going to finally allow more free time. Anyway, my wrongdoings include texting an ex gf...for the record, they were encouraging, never sexual...I've known her for years. She is a good and respectable mom. I figured I was 40, married the one I wanted and my friend hurt...I wasn't trying to sleep with her. We are all adults. I'd never leave wife so I guess I was over confident in her confidence.
I also told her that at times I looked at things online that weren't right. Nothing crazy, but also not appropriate. This stemmed in part from our first year of marriage when she really was depressed and literally would reject me at times. I had been through that feeling before and knew, after a couple arguments, that arguing wasn't going to increase the intimacy. After a bit i fell back into things online...never paid for anything or chatted with anyone ...heck sometimes I'd look up something like "pizza delivery" and something else would pop up...
Anyway...I don't know what is hurt, what is regret in having married me or what is depression...and most of all I don't know how this is going to end. I'd like to keep my marriage but I've displayed plenty of understanding, apologizing, stopping anything I knew upset her and in the end just being overall needy.
Now im at my parents house with my son. This is crazy but i can't fix it anymore than I've tried. 
I honestly don't think anyone else is in the picture.
She has two girls from her previous marriage at home (whom I hate this for, they had no idea anything as even wrong) and she is always reading books about God and having purpose in life.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Stillkindofhopefull,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. If there's one thing I've learned through all this it's that you cannot reason with a WAW. The more you use logic/reasoning to attempt to get them back the more they drift away. I like you have not been able to rule out a EA or PA because I don't have access to her phone or laptop. If you can you may want to do some checking up to see if you find anything alarming. Since I can't disprove that there's not anyone else I have to make my decisions assuming there is because I've learned that's usually the case 95% of the time from reading posts on this forum.

Motic


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

WAW’s don’t respond to logic because it runs the risk of being compared to the pretzel logic they are rationalizing their actions with.
My ex could be rational one minute then totally oblique the next.
It was wild to see it happen.

Just concentrate on yourself.
You might also want to read “The Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz.

It helped me a lot with my ex’s behavior and lessening the hurt.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Reasoning doesn't work, because emotions are in the way. She associate everything negative to you, and her leaving is then justified. You Taking you away from the situation, next time something else goes wrong in her life, she will either look at herself, or go blaming someone else.


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

Tonight I go back to my parents but without my son. I'm thankful for my family for sure but I miss my son. I miss our girls. Biologically they aren't mine so I have no say there, but since we've been a family...we've been a family and I want to go home to them.
I don't know what to make of my wife. She was my dream girl and best friend...now it's like I don't even know her. Sunday we ran a race together. I mainly ran to make sure she made it because she had some training injuries linger. I saw my wife again in that woman...enough to think there was still potential. I hoped she put off this separation but she sure didn't. The next day, Monday, after I left, I sent her kind of a playful text because things seemed a little better...didn't hear from her again except to pick up my son. Nothing since.
Seems surreal.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Stillkindofhopefull,

Is you wife actually pursuing a divorce from you? If she is you may want to start using the 180 for you own sake. I know from experience that when you don't see them you start to heal and then if you do something with them or talk to them this triggers nostalgic feelings that hurt. If she's just asked you for some space I would do all I can to investigate if there is someone else in the picture because this will determine your next course of action.

For me my wife moved out of the home because I did not give her what she wanted and she was unhappy. When she moved she took her laptop and cell phone with her so I was unable to prove that there is an OM. Although at this point I do suspect there might be. But, now our dissolution is filed so I guess I will find out after!

Motic


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## Stillkindofhopefull (Oct 25, 2014)

She asked for the separation. I told her if we separate I want an attorney's oversight. She didn't see the need but I wanted to ensure it didn't look like I was abandoning the family. She went and set it up then asked if I just wanted to file an uncontested divorce now since it takes so long and in the meantime do marriage counseling. You can imagine how much faith I put into that.


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## Motic (Aug 5, 2014)

Well the court date for the dissolution to be approved is set for the 26th of November. I can't wait for this to be done so I can truly move on with my life. XWAW and I worked out a dissolution that is favorable for me and I'm grateful for that.

I am looking for some thoughts or opinions about how I'm acting toward the XWAW during the times when we exchange my daughter. Let me first say that I'm not angry that she wanted the dissolution or the terms we agreed upon. However, I find that I feel angry because of the way she did it, essentially abandoning me and taking my daughter. I also feel anger because of her unwillingness to work on us through MC. In the beginning she would act cold and distant when I would see her to pick up my daughter and I would be the one trying to communicate. Now, she is the one trying to be friendly and communicate when I'm around her and I feel anger and resentment so I don't say much and probably seem cold or business like. She seems to think that once this is over we will have a friend like relationship, but I'm not sure I could ever do that.

So what is the best way to handle seeing them when you feel anger or resentment? Is it a way for her to feel better about her decision and less guilt by trying to be my friend now when a few months ago she wouldn't give me the time of day?

Thanks
Motic


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Motic said:


> Well the court date for the dissolution to be approved is set for the 26th of November. I can't wait for this to be done so I can truly move on with my life. XWAW and I worked out a dissolution that is favorable for me and I'm grateful for that.
> 
> I am looking for some thoughts or opinions about how I'm acting toward the XWAW during the times when we exchange my daughter. Let me first say that I'm not angry that she wanted the dissolution or the terms we agreed upon. However, I find that I feel angry because of the way she did it, essentially abandoning me and taking my daughter. I also feel anger because of her unwillingness to work on us through MC. In the beginning she would act cold and distant when I would see her to pick up my daughter and I would be the one trying to communicate. Now, she is the one trying to be friendly and communicate when I'm around her and I feel anger and resentment so I don't say much and probably seem cold or business like. She seems to think that once this is over we will have a friend like relationship, but I'm not sure I could ever do that.
> 
> ...


Motic

I believe you should act cheerful and happy around her. Wear your best clothes smell good and fake it until you make it. Do not engage in any relationship conversation (who did what) type stuff anymore. Just superficial how are you ....I'm great Gotta go!

Show her you have moved on and are happy to be rid of her. The End.


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