# Intimacy block



## Launchpad (5 mo ago)

Most of our 13 year marriage sexual intimacy with my wife has not come easy. She has continued to block herself from feeling sexual excitement and orgasms are very rare for her, maybe a handful of times a year. When we are together it’s like she fights any feelings of pleasure and that has led her to knowingly and unknowingly making sex boring for both of us. We will be reaching climax and she’ll start talking about the grocery list for the week like this is the last place in the world she wants to be. 
We don’t have any other problems in our marriage so there isn’t another reason intimacy shouldn’t be there for us. I could definitely initiate more but after so many years of the same thing it has started to feel like I’m doing this against her will. That’s a terrible feeling and it leaves me making excuses with myself to not approach her. We’ve had these conversations multiple times and things spice up for a bit but it never lasts. 
Any advice for helping her to break free and open up? 13 years and it’s still the same position with her slapping my hand if I try something different. At this point I just want her to get enjoyment from it!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Wow, going over the grocery list during sex sounds like a ton of fun, lol. 

Have you had any discussions about this with her? What have you done so far to address the situation?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

What was her childhood like? Were her parents religious?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If you don't have children, I'd consider splitting up and finding a more compatible partner. If you do have children, I'd try everything before giving up, but _either _way, marriage counseling may provide insights towards improvement or further motivation to leave.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

How old are you two?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

If your wife’s mind is on groceries, are you sure she’s anywhere near approaching climax at all?


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## Launchpad (5 mo ago)

We are in our mid 30s. Sex was never something she grew up talking about with her family…very taboo. But talking to her friends and boyfriends about it wasn’t helpful either. She felt used. I’ve expressed to her a hundred times that I don’t view her that way and don’t want to “use” her. 
We have had this talk a few times and have been to some counseling. At this point I feel dumb and kind of pissed to have to bring it up again.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@Launchpad, do you think doing the same thing over and over again, while hoping for a different result, is a good use of your time?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I'd say you need to see a qualified AASECT certified sex therapist.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> I'd say you need to see a qualified AASECT certified sex therapist.


Yep!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

As this is pretty much how it has always been, then it is unrealistic to think that she is going to transform into someone else. 
If she has experienced some kind of sexual trauma in her childhood or past, then several years and 10s of thousands of dollars of intensive individual therapy along with sexual therapy and possibly marital counseling, that *MIGHT *get her to stop talking about the groceries and allow her to focus enough that she is able to have a dozen or more orgasms a year and be present enough that you don't feel quite as rapey. 

But this is a large part of who and what she is. Some people are simply duds in bed and there are lots of couples that despite being good friends and great coparents and decent roommates, they simply do not click in bed and do not have great sexual chemistry and compatibility. 

You can work hard, do lots of therapy and counseling, you can jump through hoops and do back flips and try to transform yourself into someone she feels sexual attraction and desire for while she works her issues through therapy and soul-searching at the cost of years and thousands of dollars on therapy,,,,, and you might be slightly less frustrated and dissappointed.....maybe. ..... if your fortunate. 

People can make improvements and they can mitigate their negative factors to certain degree. 

But they rarely turn into someone they are not. People that talk about grocery lists during sex, do not turn into porn stars or sex kittens. 

If you want to have an active and satisfying sex life with someone that is unihibited and passionate that desires you and is genuinely attracted to you, it will most likely have to be with someone else.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Launchpad said:


> We are in our mid 30s. Sex was never something she grew up talking about with her family…very taboo. But talking to her friends and boyfriends about it wasn’t helpful either. She felt used. I’ve expressed to her a hundred times that I don’t view her that way and don’t want to “use” her.
> We have had this talk a few times and have been to some counseling. At this point I feel dumb and kind of pissed to have to bring it up again.


People underestimate the psychological impact of being told over and over that sex is dirty and nice girls don’t do it. That sex is the price women have to pay to get financial support and children.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Conditioning at an early age... tough one to solve. Maybe try what @Laurentium suggests...


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Launchpad said:


> Most of our 13 year marriage sexual intimacy with my wife has not come easy. She has continued to block herself from feeling sexual excitement and orgasms are very rare for her, maybe a handful of times a year. When we are together it’s like she fights any feelings of pleasure and that has led her to knowingly and unknowingly making sex boring for both of us. We will be reaching climax and she’ll start talking about the grocery list for the week like this is the last place in the world she wants to be.
> We don’t have any other problems in our marriage so there isn’t another reason intimacy shouldn’t be there for us. I could definitely initiate more but after so many years of the same thing it has started to feel like I’m doing this against her will. That’s a terrible feeling and it leaves me making excuses with myself to not approach her. We’ve had these conversations multiple times and things spice up for a bit but it never lasts.
> Any advice for helping her to break free and open up? 13 years and it’s still the same position with her slapping my hand if I try something different. At this point I just want her to get enjoyment from it!


And you passively accepted this situation for 13 years, why? 

There’s one of two scenarios going on here.
1. She’s broken. She is sexually/emotionally damaged and there’s probably nothing you can do about it. 
Was she sexually abused as a child? 
Was she overly promiscuous before you were married?
Either way, if this is truly her core nature, you’ll likely need to either leave or resign yourself to a sad unfulfilling lack of intimacy.
Or
2. And this is the far more likely scenario: she’s just not sexually attracted to YOU, and she doesn’t desire you as a man.
She’s not into sex with you because she doesn’t want you in that way. 
You provide comfort and safety and security, you’re a good stable partner to build a family/life with. But you don’t excite her sexually and she doesn’t desire you as a man.
That’s a very painful thing to hear, but it’s usually the case.

What matters now, is what are you going to do about it? Because you do get a vote in how this goes.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Launchpad said:


> At this point I just want her to get enjoyment from it!


That is her to find. Your wanting accomplishes nothing. She gets more fun out of grocery shopping. Like you said, she would rather be anywhere except sharing sex with you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Launchpad said:


> Most of our 13 year marriage sexual intimacy with my wife has not come easy. She has continued to block herself from feeling sexual excitement and orgasms are very rare for her, maybe a handful of times a year. When we are together it’s like she fights any feelings of pleasure and that has led her to knowingly and unknowingly making sex boring for both of us. We will be reaching climax and she’ll start talking about the grocery list for the week like this is the last place in the world she wants to be.
> We don’t have any other problems in our marriage so there isn’t another reason intimacy shouldn’t be there for us. I could definitely initiate more but after so many years of the same thing it has started to feel like I’m doing this against her will. That’s a terrible feeling and it leaves me making excuses with myself to not approach her. We’ve had these conversations multiple times and things spice up for a bit but it never lasts.
> Any advice for helping her to break free and open up? 13 years and it’s still the same position with her slapping my hand if I try something different. At this point I just want her to get enjoyment from it!


I feel you are misreading the situation. She's not blocking herself. I suppose you could ask her to not talk while you're climaxing. Pretty sure SHE is not climaxing when she talks about the grocery list. 

This is just one more common example of how so many men want sex more often than most women do, especially after years of marriage. I imagine it is boring for her because she probably is just not wanting it sometimes. She's having sex with you whether she always wants to or not to keep you happy. Doesn't sound like she's complaining either. 

Apparently trying something different isn't her cup of tea, and it takes two to tango. I hope you're not watching porn and taking ideas off that, because those are paid actresses and human trafficked slaves, not everyday women. 

So many men come on here with a wounded ego because their wife isn't begging for it. That's more about them, not the wife. Having sex with your wife isn't what makes you whole. That comes from within. She can't even fix that and that shouldn't be her job. If you want her to enjoy sex more, then don't ask it of her as often and learn to read the signs when she's in the mood. What you do out of bed is more sexy to women than what you do in bed. So don't forget she was once your girlfriend and how that used to be.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I imagine it is boring for her because she probably is just not wanting it sometimes. She's having sex with you whether she always wants to or not to keep you happy.


Sounds like she has found it boring for the entire 13 years. He is getting “duty sex”?


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

She hasn’t changed in 13 years and she’s not going to. Why? Because she is secure in the marriage and she has no fear of you leaving. So the question that you have to ask yourself is, between now and dead, are you willing to continue living this way?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Sounds like she has found it boring for the entire 13 years. He is getting “duty sex”?


Except at least she's not complaining and seems to be into it sometimes. I'd say he's pretty much got the perfect situation with really nothing to complain about himself. People aren't horny teens forever.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Not ALL people are like horny teenagers forever.

But SOME are😐


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> If you don't have children, I'd consider splitting up and finding a more compatible partner. If you do have children, I'd try everything before giving up, but _either _way, marriage counseling may provide insights towards improvement or further motivation to leave.


This x 100


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

The grocery list during sex is rude. I don't get why men are upset when they're getting the sex they want, why they need to make windows into their wives' souls, but the grocery list thing is just her flat out saying that she's bored. It's really insensitive and wrong. I think the OP should just flat tell her, when they're not in bed, that it's rude and disrespectful and to cut it out, she needs to act like she's into it and not be so dismissive and unkind.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Except at least she's not complaining and seems to be into it sometimes. I'd say he's pretty much got the perfect situation with really nothing to complain about himself. *People aren't horny teens forever.*


I'm trying to prove that statement wrong.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Launchpad said:


> We will be reaching climax and she’ll start talking about the grocery list for the week


Women enjoying sex and close to climax do NOT think about groceries.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Ahh hell, ignore her totally when she starts talking. You don't have to answer, don't, ever.

She'll get it after several times.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You: "I promise you I am not using you."

Her internal dialogue: "He married you, so he probably isn't using you...probably..."

Which voice do you think wins?



Launchpad said:


> We are in our mid 30s. Sex was never something she grew up talking about with her family…very taboo. But talking to her friends and boyfriends about it wasn’t helpful either. She felt used. I’ve expressed to her a hundred times that I don’t view her that way and don’t want to “use” her.
> We have had this talk a few times and have been to some counseling. At this point I feel dumb and kind of pissed to have to bring it up again.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Listen to @Laurentium. You have a serious problem in your marriage. I wouldn’t tolerate the rude behavior.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

No advice for you but it sounds bad.

If she has never been “into it” then it’s not shocking she’s still the same.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I mean, you can't control how she feels about it and if she's giving you sex when you demand it then she's doing her part. But she's demonstrating in a really obvious way that she's not into it. I don't imagine she would love if the OP complained when he helped around the house or paid attention to the children, and there is NO way she doesn't know what she's doing when she is that off topic. It seems really petty.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She wants you to know how bored she is. And she wants to mess things up for you. Otherwise, there would be no grocery list discussions.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Except at least she's not complaining and seems to be into it sometimes. I'd say he's pretty much got the perfect situation with really nothing to complain about himself. *People aren't horny teens forever.*


I'm 67 and am still as horny as ever. I can do twice a day easily, maybe more if I'm inspired by the woman I love!

And yes, he does have something to complain about if she acts disinterested and bored.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ah_sorandy said:


> I'm 67 and am still as horny as ever. I can do twice a day easily, maybe more if I'm inspired by the woman I love!
> 
> And yes, he does have something to complain about if she acts disinterested and bored.


Would he rather she pretend not to be?


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Would he rather she pretend not to be?


Well, she needs to find out what is at the root of her disinterest and boredom. If he is NOT a good lover, that might explain a lot. She should tell him what she needs to be fully engaged.

Faking orgasms is as good as lying. Showing disinterest and boredom is insulting to him.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ah_sorandy said:


> Well, she needs to find out what is at the root of her disinterest and boredom. If he is NOT a good lover, that might explain a lot. She should tell him what she needs to be fully engaged.
> 
> Faking orgasms is as good as lying. Showing disinterest and boredom is insulting to him.


Serious question: if he’s bad in bed, is it “lying” for her to fake her orgasms or is she being supportive and sparing his feelings?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ah_sorandy said:


> Well, she needs to find out what is at the root of her disinterest and boredom. If he is NOT a good lover, that might explain a lot. She should tell him what she needs to be fully engaged.
> 
> Faking orgasms is as good as lying. Showing disinterest and boredom is insulting to him.


You think her basic nature is going to change after 13 years of marriage???
It was rude to say what she said. But other than that, she's not abnormal. She just doesn't want sex as often as he does because she's not him.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Serious question: if he’s bad in bed, is it “lying” for her to fake her orgasms or is she being supportive and sparing his feelings?


Truth is the only way out of this. They both need to communicate to each other what they clearly need to make sex fun for the both of them. She needs to teach him what she needs to get off and enjoy sex. He needs to be responsive to her needs. If he meets her needs, she should be able to be fully engaged.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You think her basic nature is going to change after 13 years of marriage???
> It was rude to say what she said. But other than that, she's not abnormal. She just doesn't want sex as often as he does because she's not him.


Well, if they both don't adjust their sexual behavior, there is a high chance of marriage failure in the near future.

Maybe they are just mismatched sexually. Is it time for him to find a higher needs partner? Is it time for her to find a lower needs partner? Or, is it time for a compromise where both get their needs met regularly. That's where communication and possible marriage and sex counseling might be in order.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ah_sorandy said:


> Well, if they both don't adjust their sexual behavior, there is a high chance of marriage failure in the near future.
> 
> Maybe they are just mismatched sexually. Is it time for him to find a higher needs partner? Is it time for her to find a lower needs partner? Or, is it time for a compromise where both get their needs met regularly. That's where communication and possible marriage and sex counseling might be in order.


Counseling is not going to make her want sex as often as this man after 13 years of marriage or make her want to try new things. She's already accommodating him with his frequency. If you want someone to pretend to be lusty just because the man is, then he might have to resort to paying for a prostitute because that's what they're selling. 

Basically after 13 years something made him decide he wants a different type sex partner than the one he married. In my opinion she is about as accommodating as they come after years of marriage and he would be a fool to change her out.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

My thought if this is not a change from what it was in the beginning for the two of you is perhaps she is not being fulfilled. Are you still courting your wife? Do you still have date nights and do you always expect sex on those date nights? What happened to the days when you didn't expect sex but then got it? Wasn't that a fantastic feeling? And now marriage comes along, life happens, you go about your business and you expect things from your wife without having to put in the time and effort. Just a guess.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ah_sorandy said:


> Truth is the only way out of this. They both need to communicate to each other what they clearly need to make sex fun for the both of them. She needs to teach him what she needs to get off and enjoy sex. He needs to be responsive to her needs. If he meets her needs, she should be able to be fully engaged.


But why? It was working until she started this nonsense with the grocery list.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Serious question: if he’s bad in bed, is it “lying” for her to fake her orgasms or is she being supportive and sparing his feelings?


Either way it is perpetuating his ineptitude and not addressing the underlying issue. 

Faking orgasms ultimately hampers the woman's pleasure and satisfaction.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> But why? It was working until she started this nonsense with the grocery list.


He didn't say things were ok until the grocery list. He said it has always been an issue. The grocery list was just an example.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Would he rather she pretend not to be?


No, he would rather be married to a woman who is actually sexually attracted to him and desires him as a man.

That is what men generally want. 
Men don’t want mechanical sex from a woman who apathetically tolerates it, they want a willing, enthusiastic sex partner. (That doesn’t mean pornstar sex every time and it doesn’t mean that she’s always horny. But in general, that she desires and enjoys sex with her husband).

And if she’s not capable of that, then It’s almost certainly unfulfilling marriage for her husband. 
What the husband then needs to figure out, whether the problem lies with her or with him. And then take the requisite action. 

- And it’s very often him being unattractive as a man. Which is why we usually advise men in sexless marriages to work on themselves first, to become more attractive (and not just physically) and less unattractive.
And once they’ve made significant progress in that regard, if there marital intimacy doesn’t improve, then it’s time to find a more suitable wife Who is willing/able to be an enthusiastic sexual partner.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> He didn't say things were ok until the grocery list. He said it has always been an issue. The grocery list was just an example.


He should definitely tell her that talking about the grocery list is rude. Or anything else that she does to distract him.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> No, he would rather be married to a woman who is actually sexually attracted to him and desires him as a man.
> 
> That is what men generally want.
> Men don’t want mechanical sex from a woman who apathetically tolerates it, they want a willing, enthusiastic sex partner. (That doesn’t mean pornstar sex every time and it doesn’t mean that she’s always horny. But in general, that she desires and enjoys sex with her husband).
> ...


Well, let's just wave that magic wand.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Just need to make the grocery list sexy! Tell her to buy things like whipped cream, chocolate sauce, coconut oil, and cherries, and tell her what you're going to do with them...


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, let's just wave that magic wand.


If something as basic and uncontroversial as this is problematic for you, I don’t know what to tell you. 
Other than I have a theory on why you’ve never been married.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> If something as basic and uncontroversial as this is problematic for you, I don’t know what to tell you.
> Other than I have a theory on why you’ve never been married.


What on earth makes you think that if someone couldn't get the dream girl when they were in their prime, that they could go out and get one equal or better when they're middle aged? Horrible advice.

I don't put any stock in your theories.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What on earth makes you think that if someone couldn't get the dream girl when they were in their prime, that they could go out and get one equal or better when they're middle aged? Horrible advice.
> 
> I don't put any stock in your theories.


He didn’t say anything about getting a dream girl. 

In this case something that isn’t talking about groceries while trying to have marital relations would be a marked improvement.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What on earth makes you think that if someone couldn't get the dream girl when they were in their prime, that they could go out and get one equal or better when they're middle aged? Horrible advice.
> 
> I don't put any stock in your theories.


Um, yeah, a middle aged man can find another woman who actually wants him and is willing to share a sexually intimate relationship with him, as long as he has his **** together.

The horrible advise is to tell a man in a sexually passionless marriage, with a wife who clearly doesn’t desire him and gives him occasional begrudging duty sex at best, that he should consider himself lucky and stay the course.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Um, yeah, a middle aged man can find another woman who actually wants him and is willing to share a sexually intimate relationship with him, *as long as he has his **** together*.
> 
> The horrible advise is to tell a man in a sexually passionless marriage, with a wife who clearly doesn’t desire him and gives him occasional begrudging duty sex at best, that he should consider himself lucky and stay the course.


That's a big if.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He should definitely tell her that talking about the grocery list is rude. Or anything else that she does to distract him.


Ok but that is kind of like telling someone who's house is on fire that they need to turn down the thermostat. 

While the grocery list thing is rude, it is a symptom of a much more serious situation.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> Ok but that is kind of like telling someone who's house is on fire that they need to turn down the thermostat.
> 
> While the grocery list thing is rude, it is a symptom of a much more serious situation.


That she is being so petty (I feel like there’s no way she doesn’t know bringing up mundane stuff ruins the moment for him) and disrespectful of his feelings? I agree. He should tell her he doesn’t appreciate that. If she’s mad about something, don’t be childish and act out, just talk to him and tell him what’s wrong. Of course, all that is speculation, she could be super sweet and just clueless about sex. 🤷‍♀️


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> I'd say you need to see a qualified AASECT certified sex therapist.


Choose carefully!!! Went down that road, based on the recommendation of my wife's EMDR specialist, who thought it could help her. Complete disaster; you really need to vet even AASECT certified sex therapists carefully, and make sure you find one that has real experience and success in your particular area. Religion in general is a tough one, because there are so many things going on. You get those who believe all teachings of the church, everything you grew up with, was 100% wrong and you just need to brush all that away. An almost lack of respect for your beliefs.

The biggest issue with choosing therapists in general (present company excepted, I'm sure!) is that it takes a little time to figure out if it's going to work out. How much time? Too short and maybe you're simply showing a lack of commitment? 

But I do think how his wife dealt with sexuality prior to meeting him could be significant. Could be bad experiences in the past that she was trying to get away from, and she's repressed sexuality in general.


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