# Dating a young widow



## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Sooo... since I broke up for good with my probably BPD (ex)gf in February, I decided to take my time and didn't date at all.A few weeks ago tho, I saw this colleague of mine (works in another building and I rarely see her, but we know each other for years) and, I must admit, felt some butterflies :wink2:

We started talking and texting a lot and get along great, although I don't really know yet what her hopes/needs/wants for a LTR are, let alone with me. Really taking my time, don't wanna jump in rightaway like I did last time pffff....

This woman, let's call her S, has many qualities I like.
Very easy to talk to, we can for hours. Deeper subjects no problem. Emotionally open to me.
Very bright, master's degree to boot.
Very pretty. Takes great care of herself. Amazing dresser.
39 yo single mum of an 11yo son.
Pretty well off (which enables her to work half time)
Likes travelling, cars, litterature etc so plenty of common ground.

Tiny detail: she's a widow. Her husband committed suicide 4 years ago.

Although I've always known her as a smiling, outgoing person, I came to realise she's still traumatised by what happened. Little voices in my head ask if she's truly ready for a relationship or worse, if she will ever be. I'm sure the answers to these questions will come later but hey, the little voices wanna know now :laugh:

Thoughts, comments or, even better, experiences?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Have fun with her. Don't push it or overthink it for both of you.

She's traumatized. Of course she is. Let her come to you if she needs to, don't push it if she doesn't.

Sally forth with a grin on your face, brother.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

marduk said:


> Have fun with her. Don't push it or overthink it for both of you.
> 
> She's traumatized. Of course she is. Let her come to you if she needs to, don't push it if she doesn't.
> 
> Sally forth with a grin on your face, brother.


:grin2:

Yeah... we had 2 lunches in restaurants the last 2 weeks. Each time she pretext was, she wanted legal advice on a matter. First time I offered lunch, second time she did.

Certainly don't wanna push but I don't want to seem uninterested either. Delicate situation I find myself in.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

First, "traumatized" is a broad term. Every divorced guy on TAM is traumatized yet most are encouraged to start dating. What makes you think she's too traumatized to date? That's the real question. 

And I think suggesting that she'll never be ready to date is very harsh, how would you feel if a woman you liked decided that because you are divorced and traumatized you'll never be ready? 
Never is a long time.

So what makes you think she's not ready right now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EasyPartner said:


> :grin2:
> 
> Yeah... we had 2 lunches in restaurants the last 2 weeks. Each time she pretext was, she wanted legal advice on a matter. First time I offered lunch, second time she did.
> 
> Certainly don't wanna push but I don't want to seem uninterested either. Delicate situation I find myself in.


She's a grown up, you're a grown up. You're not 17 asking her to hold hands.

She likely knows what's up.

"Listen, I like hanging out with you. I know this great restaraunt/coffee/art gallery/band/place I'd love to show you this weekend..."


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Just have a good time and enjoy each other's company. She needs to have plenty of time to grieve and find herself.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> First, "traumatized" is a broad term. Every divorced guy on TAM is traumatized yet most are encouraged to start dating. What makes you think she's too traumatized to date? That's the real question.
> 
> And I think suggesting that she'll never be ready to date is very harsh, how would you feel if a woman you liked decided that because you are divorced and traumatized you'll never be ready?
> Never is a long time.
> ...


Marduk has a point maybe I'm overthinking this.

But when a seemingly perfect husband takes his own life for reasons that you weren't aware about (or their seriousness anyway), it may be of a different order in the attachment department than, say a WAS or a cheater. Easier to get angry at and move on, I think.

This guy didn't do anything wrong. With the exception of botteling up childhood trauma, not getting help and committing suicide that is.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

I'm currently dating a widow. When you slowly learn more about her marriage as she opens up to you, you'll be able to see what you can make of it. Letting her dictate the pace of it helped me know if there was any potential to the relationship.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

EasyPartner said:


> Marduk has a point maybe I'm overthinking this.
> 
> But when a seemingly perfect husband takes his own life for reasons that you weren't aware about (or their seriousness anyway), it may be of a different order in the attachment department than, say a WAS or a cheater. Easier to get angry at and move on, I think.
> 
> This guy didn't do anything wrong. With the exception of botteling up childhood trauma, not getting help and committing suicide that is.


But selfish as well, as I come to think about it.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

murof said:


> Find out why her husband killed himself before you take this one any further.


Of course I only know what she told me.

S said his parents divorced when he was very young, very messy divorce, dad hooked with other women and never really looked back. Husband tried all kinds of things to get his dad's attention, like getting MD degree and excelling at his career, but dad still looked the other way. Didn't talk about his innermost feelings, not even to S, didn't seek help and killed himself.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

murof said:


> Find out why her husband killed himself before you take this one any further.


I was thinking the same thing


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

murof said:


> Find out why her husband killed himself before you take this one any further.


I tend to agree w/ lenz... er... murof.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

tryingpatience said:


> I'm currently dating a widow. When you slowly learn more about her marriage as she opens up to you, you'll be able to see what you can make of it. Letting her dictate the pace of it helped me know if there was any potential to the relationship.


Sound advice Trying. Patience is not my strongest feature tho... 

Don't want to take it that slow that she friendzones me. Or I her, for that matter.

On a rational level, I do know you are right.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> First, "traumatized" is a broad term. Every divorced guy on TAM is traumatized yet most are encouraged to start dating. What makes you think she's too traumatized to date? That's the real question.
> 
> And I think suggesting that she'll never be ready to date is very harsh, how would you feel if a woman you liked decided that because you are divorced and traumatized you'll never be ready?
> Never is a long time.
> ...


I think this is a really good point. I was definitely traumatized by my x wife's affair, how she conducted it, and the divorce. I would have been traumatized I'm sure had she killed herself but in a different way and I don't think it would have been any worse. As a matter of fact in the counseling I went to for a year they treated the whole process as helping someone mourn the divorce like the loss of the person who died. Lots of parallels.

OP unless she is doing or saying things that clearly says she isn't ready or holding you to some impossible standard I don't thing dating a widow is any better or worse than dating someone who is divorced. both have baggage but so long as they have dealt with it then it should be ok


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

I thought the same thing both about what happened and about not being friend-zoned. I played it cool and didn't take things seriously. She showed me she wanted something serious. So patience :grin2:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Listen man.

You're already jumping light years ahead into an LTR with her.

Maybe that's not where this is going. Maybe it is. 

In the meantime, there's a whole lot of healing fun that a friendship, and maybe a romance, can help with.

Go there instead of picking out rings and china patterns.

The dude is dead. She'll tell you the why's and wherefores and she's not overs when and if the time comes. Don't mystify or complexify this situation.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> I think this is a really good point. I was definitely traumatized by my x wife's affair, how she conducted it, and the divorce. I would have been traumatized I'm sure had she killed herself but in a different way and I don't think it would have been any worse. As a matter of fact in the counseling I went to for a year they treated the whole process as helping someone mourn the divorce like the loss of the person who died. Lots of parallels.
> 
> OP unless she is doing or saying things that clearly says she isn't ready or holding you to some impossible standard I don't thing dating a widow is any better or worse than dating someone who is divorced. both have baggage but so long as they have dealt with it then it should be ok


The only issue I could see dating a widow or widower is the issue of death elevating people. It's seldom good to speak ill of the dead but it's not unusual for one that was a pr!ck in life to become an angel in death. And even one who wasn't a jerk will often be absolved of all faults so that nobody can measure up..... this is what I'd really be concerned about. 

If you feel like you'll never compare to the deceased spouse then its time to move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> I think this is a really good point. I was definitely traumatized by my x wife's affair, how she conducted it, and the divorce. I would have been traumatized I'm sure had she killed herself but in a different way and I don't think it would have been any worse. As a matter of fact in the counseling I went to for a year they treated the whole process as helping someone mourn the divorce like the loss of the person who died. Lots of parallels.
> 
> OP unless she is doing or saying things that clearly says she isn't ready or holding you to some impossible standard I don't thing dating a widow is any better or worse than dating someone who is divorced. both have baggage but so long as they have dealt with it then it should be ok


It is a good point indeed. And yes, the nature of the trauma is different. 

Divorced people get to see the actions of their exes and come to the conclusion they are not the persons they thought they were, or who they knew back then. Heck, they can rewrite the whole marital history and they often do.

Different in a case like this.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

marduk said:


> Listen man.
> 
> You're already jumping light years ahead into an LTR with her.
> 
> ...


My friend you are so right it hurts (a little).

Way too much overthinking, too soon.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> The only issue I could see dating a widow or widower is the issue of death elevating people. It's seldom good to speak ill of the dead but it's not unusual for one that was a pr!ck in life to become an angel in death. And even one who wasn't a jerk will often be absolved of all faults so that nobody can measure up..... this is what I'd really be concerned about.
> 
> If you feel like you'll never compare to the deceased spouse then its time to move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah that's why I said being held to an impossible standard. Your right that death can at times elevate the status of a person who wasn't so great while they were here. I would be concerned about this as well. Some difference may be the result of how the person died. In this case suicide vs a terrible car accident


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

You may be exactly what she needs....


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> The only issue I could see dating a widow or widower is the issue of death elevating people. It's seldom good to speak ill of the dead but it's not unusual for one that was a pr!ck in life to become an angel in death. And even one who wasn't a jerk will often be absolved of all faults so that nobody can measure up..... this is what I'd really be concerned about.
> 
> If you feel like you'll never compare to the deceased spouse then its time to move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Aaaand you put the finger on the issue I was overthinking


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

ummm...wow. So, you had two lunch dates on the pretext of business and you are worried about whether you should get into a long-term relationship? 

Maybe ask her out to dinner before you propose marriage....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Date her. Have fun with her. Enjoy her company. Let her enjoy yours.

Not all relationships have to be 'forever' to be successful.

You haven't even asked her out yet. Do that.

Let go.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

LonelyinLove said:


> You may be exactly what she needs....


That's a nice thing to say, but what makes you say it?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EasyPartner said:


> It is a good point indeed. And yes, the nature of the trauma is different.
> 
> Divorced people get to see the actions of their exes and come to the conclusion they are not the persons they thought they were, or who they knew back then. Heck, they can rewrite the whole marital history and they often do.
> 
> Different in a case like this.


same can be said of suicide. A selfish choice to leave. Much the same as cheating and divorce can be. I would agree in a case where he was run over by a car or a horrific death after battling cancer for a year. But this was a choice he made to leave .... That has direct parallels to many divorces where one person is a walk away. The feeling of they chose to go vs they were taken from us are indeed different traumas but both can be helped through counseling. Some people are better at processing this stuff as well. 

Do you have any specific examples of things she has said or done that makes you question her ability to be past this?


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

EasyPartner said:


> That's a nice thing to say, but what makes you say it?


She is a lovely woman who lost her H in a very sad way.

It's been a few years, she should be recovered to a point.

Perhaps it's time for her heart to open up once again, and you are already aware of her good points.

Then again, maybe not. However, nothing ventured.....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EasyPartner said:


> That's a nice thing to say, but what makes you say it?


Oh, for crying out loud.

What do you think a widower of a guy that died 4 years ago is possibly thinking?

"I'd really like someone to go and have fun with, I'm ready to move forward with my life!"

And

"He's cute and we connect, why isn't he asking me out?"

What do you need brother, a cricket bat to the side of the head?

Stop thinking. Ask her out on a real date.

If she says no, she's not ready or into you. Try to still be her friend if this happens, because both might change, and even if they don't, it sounds like you both need a friend.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> same can be said of suicide. A selfish choice to leave. Much the same as cheating and divorce can be. I would agree in a case where he was run over by a car or a horrific death after battling cancer for a year. But this was a choice he made to leave .... That has direct parallels to many divorces where one person is a walk away. The feeling of they chose to go vs they were taken from us are indeed different traumas but both can be helped through counseling. Some people are better at processing this stuff as well.
> 
> Do you have any specific examples of things she has said or done that makes you question her ability to be past this?


Not exactly. She opened to me very quickly and info about when, why and such followed soon. I don't talk about exes so fast, and only if asked questions.

And she didn't date for 4 years. Told me so anyway.

Then again, all of the above can be good things.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EasyPartner said:


> Not exactly. She opened to me very quickly and info about when, why and such followed soon. I don't talk about exes so fast, and only if asked questions.
> 
> And she didn't date for 4 years. Told me so anyway.
> 
> Then again, all of the above can be good things.


I would agree I think that bodes well that she took so much time before she started dating again. If she only took 4 weeks then yeah I would be concerned.

If you like this woman I say go for it :grin2:


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> same can be said of suicide. A selfish choice to leave. Much the same as cheating and divorce can be. I would agree in a case where he was run over by a car or a horrific death after battling cancer for a year. But this was a choice he made to leave .... That has direct parallels to many divorces where one person is a walk away. The feeling of they chose to go vs they were taken from us are indeed different traumas but both can be helped through counseling. Some people are better at processing this stuff as well.
> 
> Do you have any specific examples of things she has said or done that makes you question her ability to be past this?


Pretty narrow minded and presumptuous. And, well, dumb. 

Comparing someone committing suicide to a walk away spouse?


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

marduk said:


> Oh, for crying out loud.
> 
> What do you think a widower of a guy that died 4 years ago is possibly thinking?
> 
> ...


This just felt like a cricket bat on my head :grin2:

And of course you are right. Have to say, the answers on this thread have given perspective. Thank you all for that.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Morcoll said:


> Pretty narrow minded and presumptuous. And, well, dumb.
> 
> Comparing someone committing suicide to a walk away spouse?


I am a lawyer, not a shrink. Have to agree with Wolf tho that a selfish dimension could be observed in both.

In this case... dunno. IMO a man has to have serious psychological issues before stepping out of life and choosing nothingness over a succesful career, wealth, a beautiful wife and his 7 yo boy. 

So yes, I agree with you that this sitch is different.

But I agree with Wolf that all of the above can be equally traumatizing. Just different.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> The only issue I could see dating a widow or widower is the issue of death elevating people. It's seldom good to speak ill of the dead but it's not unusual for one that was a pr!ck in life to become an angel in death. And even one who wasn't a jerk will often be absolved of all faults so that nobody can measure up..... this is what I'd really be concerned about.
> 
> If you feel like you'll never compare to the deceased spouse then its time to move on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right, like the cabby in the story on this page:

marriage Jokes Set 4


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

My dad committed suicide and my mum met my stepdad about 3 years after, she seems happy in her marriage.
She was traumatized but was able to move on.


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

EasyPartner said:


> I am a lawyer, not a shrink. Have to agree with Wolf tho that a selfish dimension could be observed in both.
> 
> In this case... dunno. IMO a man has to have serious psychological issues before stepping out of life and choosing nothingness over a succesful career, wealth, a beautiful wife and his 7 yo boy.
> 
> ...


I have no tolerance for calling someone selfish when you have no idea what kind of demons they lived with. I am guessing serious and untreated mental illness. 

Again, presumptuous to call it selfish or compare it to walk away spouse.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Morcoll said:


> Pretty narrow minded and presumptuous. And, well, dumb.
> 
> Comparing someone committing suicide to a walk away spouse?


So are you saying they are not both selfish decisions being made? that both don't show a disregard for other people and how these decisions will effect them? 

And lose the insults


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> So are you saying they are not both selfish decisions being made? that both don't show a disregard for other people and how these decisions will effect them?


I don't think suicide is selfish. 

"Suicide is a desperate act by someone who is in intense pain and wants their pain to stop. That is a HUMAN response to extreme pain, not a selfish one. And over 90 percent of the people who die by suicide have a mental illness at the time of their death, so they are not thinking clearly."

A WAW may of may not be selfish. I'm sure many women who walk away, myself included thought a great deal about the effects on the other people involved.


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> So are you saying they are not both selfish decisions being made? that both don't show a disregard for other people and how these decisions will effect them?
> 
> And lose the insults


Yes, I am saying that. And those are not insults.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

coffee4me said:


> I don't think suicide is selfish.
> 
> "Suicide is a desperate act by someone who is in intense pain and wants their pain to stop. That is a HUMAN response to extreme pain, not a selfish one. And over 90 percent of the people who die by suicide have a mental illness at the time of their death, so they are not thinking clearly."
> 
> A WAW may of may not be selfish. I'm sure many women who walk away, myself included thought a great deal about the effects on the other people involved.


Selfish isn't a bad word. Lots of people have pain. Killing yourself can even at times be seen as a heroic act under some circumstances and in some cultures. My point was that is made as a decision from the singular person. Hence it is selfish. You as a WAW may have thought about the affects on others as a person who commits suicide may as well. Often thinking for example that they would Impove others lives by leaving. But the decision is still made by the individual, alone, that effects other lives. So in thought making process I see similar processes of thinking


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Morcoll said:


> Yes, I am saying that. And those are not insults.


Then you and I have very different thoughts on the word selfish and what it means. You apparently take that as an insult without thinking about what I was meaning to say.

I will refrain from calling your thoughts on the matter stupid though


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Before this thread totally spirals out of control discussing suicide... did you ask her out, man?


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

EasyPartner said:


> Not exactly. She opened to me very quickly and info about when, why and such followed soon. I don't talk about exes so fast, and only if asked questions.
> 
> And she didn't date for 4 years. Told me so anyway.
> 
> Then again, all of the above can be good things.


It's a good thing that she can talk about it. She probably has more practice answering questions about when and why then someone who has an ex. It's typically considered bad form to ask who someone who got divorced why but young widows get asked how someone died often.


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## Morcoll (Apr 22, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Selfish isn't a bad word. Lots of people have pain. Killing yourself can even at times be seen as a heroic act under some circumstances and in some cultures. My point was that is made as a decision from the singular person. Hence it is selfish. You as a WAW may have thought about the affects on others as a person who commits suicide may as well. Often thinking for example that they would Impove others lives by leaving. But the decision is still made by the individual, alone, that effects other lives. So in thought making process I see similar processes of thinking



Yeah, there is no negative connotation in the word selfish. Youre right. It's a nice thing. 

selfish 


[sel-fish] 

IPA Syllables 

Synonyms 
Examples 
Word Origin 




adjective 


1.

devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EasyPartner said:


> Not exactly. She opened to me very quickly and info about when, why and such followed soon. I don't talk about exes so fast, and only if asked questions.
> 
> And she didn't date for 4 years. Told me so anyway.
> 
> Then again, all of the above can be good things.


Well, if your last husband pulled such an insane stunt, she may have cold feet about getting stuck with another thoughtless jerk.

I expect she is as angry as anyone else who has been cheated on or betrayed.

Ask her out, no guts, no glory.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Morcoll said:


> Yeah, there is no negative connotation in the word selfish. Youre right. It's a nice thing.
> 
> selfish
> 
> ...


If that's what's you choose to believe knock yourself out. I explained my opinion on it. People have debated the notion of suicide as a selfish act for as along as suicide has been around I imagine. You and I won't see eye to eye on it.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

If she doesn't seem to be the type who makes maudlin comments all the time about her deceased husband, doesn't light a candle on the day he died, then i think you have a shot at having a fun time with her, based on how you interact already.

If she tells you that she does not want to go out to the art museum/sushi/bookstore or whatever then you know romance is not on her mind.

But if she says yes? Please keep it light. Keep the banter going on the subject at hand, not on her mental state following his demise.


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