# after 3 years



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

closing it


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Look er15, take from someone who knows...cut your loses and move on...honestly she is not going to have an epiphany, she is not going to suddenly wake up and be this horny woman, A leopard does not change their spots get it through your head...i have been down this road before and i can tell you it ain't happening certainly not with you... MOVE ON your not married to her move on stop driving yourself crazy. But i suspect you won't listen you will keep trying to the bitter end.


----------



## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I think the only way to make her appreciate you is for her to face losing you. Make her realize she has to win you back. If she doesn't, you'll be on your way.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

i have to give it my best to save relationship. i will have to answer to God one day. 
but i have ended before after doing what i could, it may happen again


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Seems to me that she just isn't that into you.

Why would intimacy you have to push for be exciting or fulfilling?

Find a more compatible partner. Why would God want you to settle for a poor match? The whole point of dating is to find a good match.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

er15 said:


> i will have to answer to God one day.


Yes. We all will. But even God does not change people against their will. God provides us wisdom and choices. This woman's will is set against intimacy with you.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

is she only could accept God. 
her NO is very defensive, i suspect there was something in her life. complete reliance on her own mind, rather strange relation with family. but even there i get shut down


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So what if she did accept God?

Do you assume that's it's God's will for her to want you?

That seems self serving.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

maybe self serving but more important she would understand deep meaning of love. i think ( i could be mistaken ) there is something from her past life and she does not believe in healing. to be whole we must heal first. she acts like someone who does not care how it will end. relation or life. thats why. benefits of doubt. she may be hurt deep or think she cannot be saved. before i part i want to make sure i did the best i can. god does not want divorce neither i believe in it. it is extreme to be taken only when all other options were exhausted


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

its not about wanting me. i am very sure she wanted to be with me until end of line. but we cannot have required intimacy for relation to grow ( and we spoke about marriage down the road or something like that ). either she is so plain ( naive ) about relation or hurt inside or pride ( sometimes called devils pride, too much of modern thinking )
at least last 2 can be eliminated


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So this Asian lady is your wife?

If she is your wife and she does not want to be intimate with you, what is she REALLY?

From her perspective, you may just be a glorified roommate.

There's more to marriage and a relationship than sex. But if all you're asking for is to be held close and feel loved and she can't handle that? You need to ask yourself if this woman really loves you like a wife should. If not, then you can continue making excuses on why you should stay in a relationship that is not fulfilling.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

er15 said:


> maybe self serving but more important she would understand deep meaning of love. i think ( i could be mistaken ) there is something from her past life and she does not believe in healing. to be whole we must heal first. she acts like someone who does not care how it will end. relation or life. thats why. benefits of doubt. she may be hurt deep or think she cannot be saved. before i part i want to make sure i did the best i can. god does not want divorce neither i believe in it. it is extreme to be taken only when all other options were exhausted


You two are not on the same page in life, but you are trying to force her into your point of view. That's way out of line.

I agree that she is dysfunctional, but so are you. The way you respond to her obvious dysfunction is to try to force her into your mold. You do not, and cannot accept her for who she is. You want her to be something other than how she is or you won't be happy with her. It makes no sense to me whatsoever why you two would want to stay together when you are pressuring her to be someone she isn't. And it's not even for her personal benefit, it's to make you happy.

I don't know what God you serve, but the God I know loves people and encourages them. He is kind and compassionate. I don't see any of that in you. Your post is full of self-righteousness and selfishness.

She does not owe herself or anything to you. Thinking that she does is an entitlement mentality. Thinking that you are entitled to certain things from her is outrageous. No, you do not own her body. If she feels uncomfortable with someone, trying to force your will on her seems downright evil to me.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> You two are not on the same page in life, but you are trying to force her into your point of view. That's way out of line.
> 
> I agree that she is dysfunctional, but so are you. The way you respond to her obvious dysfunction is to try to force her into your mold. You do not, and cannot accept her for who she is. You want her to be something other than how she is or you won't be happy with her. It makes no sense to me whatsoever why you two would want to stay together when you are pressuring her to be someone she isn't. And it's not even for her personal benefit, it's to make you happy.
> 
> ...


The man wants some physical touch and sex so that he feels loved. Yeah, some people want some sex from their partner. Nothing wrong with that. He's trying to compromise. 

His biggest problem is he isn't willing to let her go since she doesn't like sex.
Probably never did.

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip, Er15.
You are wanting something she cant give.

Move on. Or accept no reciprocity with physical stuff


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> The man wants some physical touch and sex so that he feels loved. Yeah, some people want some sex from their partner. Nothing wrong with that. He's trying to compromise.
> 
> His biggest problem is he isn't willing to let her go since she doesn't like sex.
> Probably never did.
> ...


I understand that, but it's all about him and what he wants. He chose a woman who has obvious sexual dysfunction. It's not only about her being LD. She seems to me to be afraid. A normal, healthy woman does not hide her body from a loving, affectionate husband, even if she's LD. There is something more going on here and it's something serious. Trying to force himself on her and making it all her fault that he is unhappy when he knew she was this way from the beginning is utterly self-centered and mean. Furthermore, it's not going to help the situation at all.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Perhaps she is more accepting of life than you are aware of...

We are all "dysfunctional" to a degree... it's more how our dysfunctions align or support another to find a harmony but even then, harmonies come out of tune under the best efforts.

Salvation for others is a missionary's task... I don't believe one can be a missionary and a spouse because it tends to become way too personal with expectations.

If you cannot accept her rejecting your faith, do you really think God will hold you responsible for that?

Not sure your flavour of Christianity, but when I was a practicing Christian I learned that when I tried to fit the scripture to my needs, it ended up being all about me... easy for expectations to lead to suffering when that happens and lose sight of the present truth.

So, here is a truth for you to accept... she is the master of her body and should only do what is comfortable for her.

Once you accept this, you may begin to see things differently and can then place serenity into motion... it might be helpful to begin with the prayer aligned with it.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> I understand that, but it's all about him and what he wants. He chose a woman who has obvious sexual dysfunction. It's not only about her being LD. She seems to me to be afraid. A normal, healthy woman does not hide her body from a loving, affectionate husband, even if she's LD. There is something more going on here and it's something serious. Trying to force himself on her and making it all her fault that he is unhappy when he knew she was this way from the beginning is utterly self-centered and mean. Furthermore, it's not going to help the situation at all.


She hides herself out of fear he's going to want sex.
Simple as that.
You're right in that he shouldn't have settled on a woman that clearly is asexual toward him.
He has reason to be unhappy about the lack of reciprocated sexual desire.
But he can fix it . He won't fix her.


----------



## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

You don't push her buttons. You probably never will. Maybe NOBODY will... but that's not your problem, unless you want it to be.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

are you actually my spouse? just like she was talking. i never force anybody, i ask only.
yes, i can leave anytime, we are not legally married. so can she. not preferable solution to her or me.
you think is selfish to love and be loved back. or is it selfish to withhold affection from your spouse?
we have been given manual how to live by creator, intimacy is party of it. just read passages. 
i try to be good man to her. and i think she must be ok with me, otherwise she would have left already.
but issue needs to be resolved, either me capitulating ( thats one option as many have done ) or we seek guidance
in this matter. the one who created is best counselor. i cannot make her believer, god does not want forced, but
i want in my soul her to be. not only for present but for time when we have to face maker. i want her to be in eternity.
for that she needs to accept. and understand what love is for real


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

This has got to be the creepiest thread I have ever read.


er15 said:


> i was asking or as she would say pushing for normal intimacy - that is we give ourselves and take without restrictions.
> she did not like it and resented me for that. i resent ever since and it is constant argument that she would not even honor my request she sleeps with me naked or in nightshirt only. just that i can feel she belongs to me without reservations.


 This is you making demands on her body. This is not a mutual situation where you are both comfortable with sharing your bodies in the same way. You should not be arguing with her about it. She has shown no desire to change, but is telling you that you are pushing her into something she doesn't want to do. You are not honoring her. 
I understand that you want a different life with her, but she is unwilling to give it and you are unwilling to take no for an answer, instead you argue with her over her boundaries. That is messed up.




er15 said:


> she believes she is master of her body and should only do what she is comfortable with. i believe once you commit your body does not belong to you only. we become one. she had total hysterectomy 2 years ago. twice a month duty sex ever since.


You think you own her body? Wow. Just wow. You are not even married and you think you own her. Does she own you too? You don't like what she is offering, but you pressure her and tell her that her body isn't her own to do with as she desires. You do not honor her boundaries or her concerns, but keep pressing to get your own way. This is sick.



er15 said:


> i dont want it that way, it feels like rape.


 Stop right there. If you feel like you are raping her - you are. This is disgusting. If it's not mutual, it's rape.



er15 said:


> i understand she has no desire for sex, but it is intimacy i am asking for. to hold and being hold, to touch and being touch. to become one even with no penetration. i was blessed to experience such before and it is more beautiful then any sex. as she does not want to use hormone i suggested several times we should reinvent intimacy, bring toys in. i always got no way. but that may be the only way she could have big O and i would be so happy if i can see her to orgasm. i am at end. i need intimacy to bond because relationship can either grow or die. to her sex is not priority at all, intimacy she has no clue what it means. suggested counseling, asking for advise. she would not, as she states she does not need. there are no gold standards, only her way.
> so we are at crossroad - most likely breaking. and i am very open about it, stated my reasons, asking her to consider, just consider that for once she may not be right ( as she almost always has to be ).
> is there anything you can suggest i may try, she is generally unwilling to go for therapy or consultation


You continue to try to convince her to see things and do things you way. This is not a mutual relationship. Your girlfriend is obviously a very hurt person. She should not be in any sort of romantic relationship. She should get help and healing for whatever sorrow and grief she is carrying.

You shouldn't be in a relationship either. You don't know how to treat someone who is obviously hurting. If someone is injured you don't demand that she does what a normal person does. If a person has a broken leg and cannot take a walk with you, demanding that they get up and walk isn't going to help the situation. It's pointless and foolish. That is basically what you are doing here.

Learn how to treat people. Stop being so self-centered. Yes, I understand you want a loving, affectionate relationship, but in order for it to be healthy it has to be mutual.





er15 said:


> are you actually my spouse? just like she was talking. i never force anybody, i ask only.


She has said no over and over again, yet you pressure her and tell her that her body belongs to you. That is not asking. That is demanding. It is abusive. 




er15 said:


> yes, i can leave anytime, we are not legally married. so can she. not preferable solution to her or me.
> you think is selfish to love and be loved back. or is it selfish to withhold affection from your spouse?


She is not your spouse. I don't think it is selfish to want to love and be loved back, but what is going on here isn't love. You are pressuring her and demanding something she cannot or will not give. Stop it. Not one time have I noticed you mention concern for her, only that she is not meeting your needs. 



er15 said:


> we have been given manual how to live by creator, intimacy is party of it. just read passages.


 If you're talking about the Bible, I don't think you really understand that it's about how you are to live in relationship to other people. If you don't have love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, then you do not have the Spirit and are not living according to the principles of the Bible. You have shown a lack of most of these in your posts. You are preaching a false gospel.



er15 said:


> i try to be good man to her. and i think she must be ok with me, otherwise she would have left already.


Lots of people stay in unhealthy relationships for a variety of reasons. Your GF seems to have an unhealthy view of herself and appears to be an unhappy woman in general. She probably stays with someone who treats her badly because she doesn't think she deserves anything better and you seem to be doing a pretty good job of helping her keep that point of view.



er15 said:


> but issue needs to be resolved, either me capitulating ( thats one option as many have done ) or we seek guidance
> in this matter. the one who created is best counselor. i cannot make her believer, god does not want forced, but
> i want in my soul her to be. not only for present but for time when we have to face maker. i want her to be in eternity.
> for that she needs to accept. and understand what love is for real


Based on what you've posted here, you are not showing her love. You are showing her what you want. That's not love. Try reading 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. There is nothing in there about what you get and everything about how you treat other people. If what you are doing doesn't match up with 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, it is not love. You want her to love you in the way that you experience love, but you do not understand her needs and don't care to. You are trying to convince her that she needs to do certain things in order to show you love, but you are totally blind to what her needs are.

You may feel that you deserve to be loved, but if that means making someone love you in the way you want to be loved, that isn't really love at all on either of your parts. All that you write is about you, you, you and your needs. A loving relationship has to be mutual. If it's not mutual it won't work. One person cannot demand or try to convince the other person to give and expect it to work. It doesn't work.

If you are unhappy with your GF, you are in an unhappy relationship. You have given her your point of view and she is not buying it. The only way either of you are going to be happy is if someone changes or you leave the relationship and find someone compatible with you. You can only change yourself, so if you are unwilling to be the one of changes and you are unwilling or unable to be happy with what she is offering, then do both of you a favor and end the relationship.

I'm not saying that how she is behaving is acceptable in a relationship. It's not. But she has shown that she is unwilling and/or unable to change. That makes you incompatible. Demanding that someone change to make you happy doesn't work. Either it happens willingly or it won't work.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

And not likely to after 3 years. Hello?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

One can find passages in the Bible to support both sides of arguments in some cases. Context is everything. 

Your point is he is pressuring her. And my point is that he SHOULDN'T HAVE TO! He should leave this woman because she is not compatible with him. Not because he's angry with her or because he doesn't care about her. It's just that she is NEVER, no matter what he does, going to provide him with the kind of sexual experience he feels he needs. Very simple.

Beating on him that he's raping her is just wrong of you to say. He is NOT raping his wife. He said it FEELS like it because he can tell that she is not enjoying it. He did not say he had sex with her after she failed to give him consent. 
Basically he's getting "duty sex" and you're accusing him of rape. I strongly disagree with that. 

The guy just wants his gf/SO to WANT to have sex with him.  He's not an ******* for wanting that. He's not a rapist for getting duty sex.

But I agree with you that it's never going to happen, and that he either has to accept it, or move on.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Well the OP was the one that brought up rape but obviously he’s not a wordsmith. lol 

I don’t perceive abuse here but OP is beating a dead horse. Things aren’t going to change. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well the OP was the one that brought up rape but obviously he’s not a wordsmith. lol
> 
> I don’t perceive abuse here but OP is beating a dead horse. Things aren’t going to change.
> 
> ...


I concur.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> One can find passages in the Bible to support both sides of arguments in some cases. Context is everything.
> 
> Your point is he is pressuring her. And my point is that he SHOULDN'T HAVE TO! He should leave this woman because she is not compatible with him. Not because he's angry with her or because he doesn't care about her. It's just that she is NEVER, no matter what he does, going to provide him with the kind of sexual experience he feels he needs. Very simple.
> 
> ...


A healthy person doesn't use pressure to get their spouse to meet their sexual needs. No one has to do that. It's foolish.

An abuser believes he has a right to control someone else's life and/or body. (he has said he believe he actually owns her)

An abuser believes he has a right to power over someone else's life and/or body. (again he said he believes she should give him what he wants because he owns her)

An abuser craves to have their needs/desires put first. (he is doing that)

An abuser demands his own way. (he is doing that)

If he feels like he is raping her, it doesn't matter of he has her consent or not. Furthermore, if she is having sex with him because he is pressuring her into it, she's not really doing it of her own free will. She doesn't seem to think she has much or any choice. Having sex under those circumstances is going deep into darkness. It isn't making her any more able to give him what he wants, that's for sure. It's only making her feel less control over her own life and her body. This would make it more difficult for her to leave him, because she is going further out of control of her own life and probably doesn't feel like she can leave.

I think what is being described her is an abusive relationship. If you are trying to get someone to do what you want through various coercive means and taking what you want when she allows you to despite telling you she doesn't want it, I don't know what else to call it. It's abuse.

Using the Bible to abuse someone is spiritual abuse.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

this is very helpful. with feminist giving lectures i am realizing my spouse is not that bad after all.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

er15 said:


> this is very helpful. with feminist giving lectures i am realizing my spouse is not that bad after all.




Hahahaaaaa! 

Well there ya go...all you needed was some perspective. 

Carry on!
🤣 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

er15 said:


> this is very helpful. with feminist giving lectures i am realizing my spouse is not that bad after all.


Abuse speak. You are an abuser. I hope she gets the courage to leave you.


----------



## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

Before this goes completely off the rails, I'd be interested to know if English is a second language for @er15.


----------



## er15 (Aug 7, 2015)

yes, english is second language ( actually third )
for feminist i like to read 
https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/05/31/the-frustrated-feminist-wife/

i have never forced her, she gives at free will duty sex. she knows the sex is necessary for man. she may even get some light
about intimacy is necessary for long term. without it cannot survive. we are both educated with good and equal jobs, incomes
i am good friend with her teenager boy, he interacts with me better than mom. because i talk logic and reason with him.
my ways may not be perfect i admit, but i am trying to make it with her to end of line. i am her longest relationship ( does it speak for something ? ). she gives but states i can only give what i can.
i think she went to some trauma in past ( example is in hospital she was to be given suppository - petrified of it ). 
when i try to suggest counseling - no way. how can i help if she refuses anything.
thats why i think my christian belief may help. to forgive, heal, get help.
i agree with some readers - i may be to forceful and i will try not to. but not with feminist - that is one angry person speaking.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

er15 said:


> yes, english is second language ( actually third )
> for feminist i like to read
> https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/05/31/the-frustrated-feminist-wife/
> 
> ...


First, don't try to convert someone to Christianity to improve your (or their) sex life. Trying to convert someone should be about their soul, full stop.

Second, sexual dysfunction is RAMPANT in Christianity for various reasons, so be careful what you wish for in that matter.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> I understand that, but it's all about him and what he wants. He chose a woman who has obvious sexual dysfunction. It's not only about her being LD. She seems to me to be afraid. A normal, healthy woman does not hide her body from a loving, affectionate husband, even if she's LD. There is something more going on here and it's something serious. Trying to force himself on her and making it all her fault that he is unhappy when he knew she was this way from the beginning is utterly self-centered and mean. Furthermore, it's not going to help the situation at all.


In all respect, we don't know why she hides her body from the OP. His words about how she no longer owns her own body after marriage and his lecturing her about his religious beliefs would be suffocating for many women and men.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You may have missed this part of the OP:


er15 said:


> for years i was going through restrictions - basically most of her body was off limits. i could not even see her naked only for brief moment of penetration. Stop it, dont touch was all i got.






Steve1000 said:


> In all respect, we don't know why she hides her body from the OP. His words about how she no longer owns her own body after marriage and his lecturing her about his religious beliefs would be a BIG turnoff for many women and men.


I would consider it hiding her body if she won't let him see her body.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> You may have missed this part of the OP:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I would too. I think you misread my first sentence. I said that we don't know why she doesn't let him see her body.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Steve1000 said:


> Yes, I would too. I think you misread my first sentence. I said that we don't know why she doesn't let him see her body.


Oh, you're right, that's not what I thought you meant. I don't know why either, but it's pretty extreme, so something serious must have happened for her to be this way.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

well if in 3 years you haven't tried everything to save the non specific relationship, there can't be much left to try. My suggestion is that you try it her way. No sex, no touching, no affection, no intimacy, give it a good honest try, say about six months. After that at least you will know what you want. You may never figure out what it is she wants, but giving her full ownership of her body is what she has stated. And that means that she has no right to even ask you for access to your body or affections. 

Now someone will pop up and say that removing affection like that is abusive, so to save me a followup post, I'll answer now. She removed affection 2 years ago exactly like that.


----------

