# Giving up on dating in the USA



## ClarksonSGX

I am ready to give up on dating. I live in ******* Wisconsin and am 42 year old. I have tried just about every dating service there is. I do not know why but it seems like it is impossible to find anyone here that is singles and not over weight. I know you women will scream look for the inner beauty. But inner beauty is only one part of a long lasting relationship. You must have many things is common, things you like to do together, things to spend quality time together. I like to go hiking, ride bicycle, play sports, go skiing, mountain climbing, and white water rafting. None of these things I can hope to do with someone who gets winded walking up one flight of stairs. So what is the point of getting married if there is nothing you can do together you both enjoy. I do not know what is about *******, but women here over 40 are just not in to athletics, sure you see lots of fit women working and stating fit but they are all already married.

So here is my question, I have been considering using an international marriage broker. Has anyone ever used one or knows some who has? Did the marriage last? Did she change after she arrived? Any feedback would be helpful, and please women don’t criticize me for looking at my options. I have been dating here for almost 25 years, it is time for me to start a family. I have realized now that it is never going to happen in this city.


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## Cosmos

Your complaint seems to be an international one and is not gender specific. The one and only time I used a (reputable) dating site some years ago, it resulted in some catastrophic, life altering events - so do be careful.

If you are talking about mail order brides - again, be careful. I've heard a lot of horror stories about those, too.

IMO, the best way to meet like minded people is by joining clubs and engaging in activities that are likely to bring you into contact with them.


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## JCD

"All the good ones get married early".

Okay...first off...what do YOU bring to the table? A question that I find helpful is 'if I were the opposite gender, would I want to date ME?" Sometimes when I ask myself that question, the answer is 'no', in which case it's time to work on myself. In which case, you aren't ready for ANY relationship until the answer is 'yes'.

But you say you are active and interesting. I have to accept that assessment (ask some female non relative friends for THEIR assessment).

Next question is 'is your bar too high'? The answer is probably yes. If you are a male in your forties who has never been in a LTR, you probably do not have the emotional tools to be in an LTR of any kind...at least not yet. It is a skill set like anything else and asking me to climb Pike' Peak without knowing any climbing is just as sensible as suddenly jumping into the deep end of the relationship pool...with the added cement shoe of great cultural differences.

Now...regarding marriage brokers etc. I have been in an international relationship. It wasn't easy. And this wasn't a brokered anything. We were two people interested in each other and we had (some) English in common. Teaching her was one of the bonding moments. But she STARTED with a good amount of English.

How exactly are you supposed to communicate (the basis of a good marriage) if you don't share a GOOD grasp of the language?

Now...any woman you find, you had better be able to respect her culture. I knew a jerk...I mean bloke who put the hard matrimonial press on a girl he dated for THREE YEARS. He also called her fellow countrymen 'monkeys'. Obviously that doesn't work out so well. He 'loved' her...he hated her country. 

Your perspective SO is going to want to drag you into her family and culture. Are YOU willing to at least TRY to learn HER language? If not, why? Is that HER job?

So yeah...it's about respect and communication...and adding cultural impediments isn't going to help.

Making things worse is motives. My girl was in America anyway. She wasn't particularly looking for anything before I happened to her.

THESE women are motivated to find a husband...ANY husband. So she'll be interested in your hiking, climbing, kayaking whatever...for a while. Care to venture a guess how long that will last? Until she gets her green card or 9 months...whichever comes first. You might be lucky and she actually IS or becomes interested in these things.

At 42 are you planning on having a baby with her? How many? Can you eat her cultural cuisine? Not for a day. EVERY DAY? Or were you planning on making her change her diet as well as culture, country and language? (Some women will do this. Most won't)

Here is a suggestion: MOVE! There are a lot of active girls in California, Maine, NY, Texas etc. You will share a language, a culture, and even hobbies. But you need to start kissing toads (a LOT of toads) until you find your Xena warrior princess.

But this means YOU need to disrupt YOUR life instead of some Third World woman having to do the same. You need to get some skin in the game. Trust me, I am ALL OVER the fact that there is a strong strain of crappy attitude in some American women. Some isn't all. And I'll look at her inner beauty when she looks at my 'inner wallet'. Sure.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but at this stage of the game, a lot of the best ones are taken already. *You can find a good one in your age bracket...but you need to be flexible on her having kids. * Most men aren't down with that.

But you're coming late to the party and it's 2 a.m. last call.


Edited to add: I am not saying the OP has no social skills. I am suggesting that the social skills for gaining and maintaining an LTR are very specific and require a certain amount of sacrifice. Men (and women) who are unwilling to make these changes generally don't last long in marriages.


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## NextTimeAround

ClarksonSGX said:


> I am ready to give up on dating. I live in ******* Wisconsin and am 42 year old. I have tried just about every dating service there is. *I do not know why but it seems like it is impossible to find anyone here that is singles and not over weight. I know you women will scream look for the inner beauty. * But inner beauty is only one part of a long lasting relationship. You must have many things is common, things you like to do together, things to spend quality time together. I like to go hiking, ride bicycle, play sports, go skiing, mountain climbing, and white water rafting. None of these things I can hope to do with someone who gets winded walking up one flight of stairs. So what is the point of getting married if there is nothing you can do together you both enjoy. I do not know what is about *******, but women here over 40 are just not in to athletics, sure you see lots of fit women working and stating fit but they are all already married.
> 
> So here is my question, I have been considering using an international marriage broker. Has anyone ever used one or knows some who has? Did the marriage last? Did she change after she arrived? Any feedback would be helpful, and please women don’t criticize me for looking at my options. I have been dating here for almost 25 years, it is time for me to start a family. I have realized now that it is never going to happen in this city.


Don't waste your time looking in the UK, then.

But seriously, I agree that physical attraction is essential to a long term romantic relationship. Fortunately, adequate physical attractiveness does not always have to follow the classic script expectations. 

Furthermore, women are picky lookswise as well. Well, they may not admit it directly, they will out themselves occasionally with a remark or two.


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## TCSRedhead

If you cant find a suitable match in a largely populated country, maybe it's not the country.


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## ScarletBegonias

NextTimeAround said:


> Don't waste your time looking in the UK, then.




wow.could you gentlemen please paint with a broader brush?The one you're holding isn't quite offensive and all encompassing enough.

I agree w/Red.Perhaps it isn't your location.


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## mablenc

I find this interesting you been dating for 25 years? Maybe it's that you are looking for the wrong things in a person or don't understand or come short in your contributions in a relationship. You can look into an international broker, but understand many of these women will do anything to leave their country and will settle for the men who can't find a person to love them no visa and confort life stings attached.

Do you think you will be ok taking this risk? Only to find a empty home once the green card arrives? While some people do find true love with this method, I think it's the men who know its a risk, and know what to look for in a woman besides her youth and beauty. I would think they also know BS when they hear it, and go in with clear expectations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dollystanford

NextTimeAround said:


> Don't waste your time looking in the UK, then.


Hey Adonis, wind your neck in, yes? 

To the OP - do you mean to tell me that in doing all this rock climbing, white water rafting, skiing, mountaineering, playing sports etc. that you've never met one solitary woman who has interested you or been interested in you? Women do these activities too you know

So why is that I wonder


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## Kaboom

I find this thread highly amusing  Carry on.


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## TCSRedhead

Kaboom said:


> I find this thread highly amusing  Carry on.


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## NextTimeAround

Dollystanford said:


> Hey Adonis, wind your neck in, yes?
> 
> To the OP -* do you mean to tell me that in doing all this rock climbing, white water rafting, skiing, mountaineering, playing sports etc. that you've never met one solitary woman who has interested you or been interested in you? Women do these activities too you know*
> 
> So why is that I wonder


Back when I was single, that was the kind of stuff I did to meet suitable men.


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## southern wife

Why not post on *Single's site vs marriage sites?* Are you hoping to find someone here? :scratchhead:


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## JCD

TCSRedhead said:


> If you cant find a suitable match in a largely populated country, maybe it's not the country.


That's not (quite) fair.

He can't find his svelte outdoor hottie single babe in her forties without kids within his hometown...or within close driving distance. Granted, he lives in the Cheese Capitol of America.

So...why not move? He doesn't want to.

Beside being outdoorsy and thin, I'm curious about the rest of your criteria.


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## ntamph

Cosmos said:


> Your complaint seems to be an international one and is not gender specific. The one and only time I used a (reputable) dating site some years ago, it resulted in some catastrophic, life altering events - so do be careful.
> 
> If you are talking about mail order brides - again, be careful. I've heard a lot of horror stories about those, too.
> 
> IMO, the best way to meet like minded people is by joining clubs and engaging in activities that are likely to bring you into contact with them.


This is getting really old.

The divorce rate for American husband/foreign wife couples is about 20%. Domestic marriages have a divorce rate of 50%. An American man is about 250% more likely to be taken to the cleaners by an American wife than by a foreign wife.


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## TCSRedhead

JCD said:


> That's not (quite) fair.
> 
> He can't find his svelte outdoor hottie single babe in her forties without kids within his hometown...or within close driving distance. Granted, he lives in the Cheese Capitol of America.
> 
> So...why not move? He doesn't want to.
> 
> Beside being outdoorsy and thin, I'm curious about the rest of your criteria.


LOL - I'm not saying he needs to move but I am saying that the problem is likely not the area he lives in. 

The common denominator in all his dating experiences? Well, that's him. 

I don't see any issue with seeking people outside your geographical area but this dismissal of an entire population is just humorous.


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## JCD

To your original question: A relative found a Russian Bride. She's back in Russia now. He had his first marriage in his forties too.

Wife worked with a Russian woman who married an American (not sure if there was a broker involved) She ran off with her boyfriend.

So no, the track record based simply on my anecdotes isn't particularly good.

Bear in mind that Russia is having a HUGE marriage problem in the Siberian areas. Many men are non-functioning alcoholics and the government is considering instituting polygamy in certain areas to try to deal with the issue.

Just an interesting aside.


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## JCD

TCSRedhead said:


> LOL - I'm not saying he needs to move but I am saying that the problem is likely not the area he lives in.
> 
> The common denominator in all his dating experiences? Well, that's him.
> 
> I don't see any issue with seeking people outside your geographical area but this dismissal of an entire population is just humorous.


Well granted.

How big is his town? How wide is he willing to look (Sort of strange we are jumping from 'in ****** Wisconsin to 'global' in a single bound instead of trying the next state)

I find that sudden jump to generally mean 'I want a woman who accepts me as I am (whatever that is), thinks the world of me, and will do whatever I ask'.

In this, men seeking such things are generally disappointed because culture doesn't trump self interest, self respect, or attraction. Women are women...EVERYWHERE.

This isn't a ding to women, please understand. This is more about stupid male fantasies of the grass being greener 'over there'.

I've had foreign grass. It tastes the same. It can be mighty fine grass...but we got some good grass here too...


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## TCSRedhead

JCD said:


> Well granted.
> 
> How big is his town? How wide is he willing to look (Sort of strange we are jumping from 'in ****** Wisconsin to 'global' in a single bound instead of trying the next state)
> 
> I find that sudden jump to generally mean 'I want a woman who accepts me as I am (whatever that is), thinks the world of me, and will do whatever I ask'.
> 
> In this, men seeking such things are generally disappointed because culture doesn't trump self interest, self respect, or attraction. Women are women...EVERYWHERE.
> 
> This isn't a ding to women, please understand. This is more about stupid male fantasies of the grass being greener 'over there'.
> 
> I've had foreign grass. It tastes the same. It can be mighty fine grass...but we got some good grass here too...


I think we're mostly saying the same thing. I agree that women are the same everywhere. Good ones and bad ones in each country/culture.


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## shy_guy

Not to be redundant, but I gave some serious things to consider in the cross post version of this thread (now closed) here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/100889-giving-up-dating-usa.html

There is something else very serious to think about: Some of the women in these mail order bride orgs are victims of human trafficking. They're not happy in the situation where they are, and they're not necessarily going along with this of their own free will. They will find a free will when they get to a place where they can exercise it, though. Please, as a minimum, if you do not pay attention to anything else I wrote, pay attention to this part and check out any org you may be exploring.

That's not all of them, though. Some (I don't know what percentage - maybe a large majority even) are coming of their own free will. In those cases, look at the considerations I gave in the other thread. They're things that people not involved in an international marriage may not think about.

I'm not saying do, or don't. I'm just saying: Consider carefully, and make sure you're up to the extra challenges.


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## treyvion

ntamph said:


> This is getting really old.
> 
> The divorce rate for American husband/foreign wife couples is about 20%. Domestic marriages have a divorce rate of 50%. An American man is about 250% more likely to be taken to the cleaners by an American wife than by a foreign wife.


When you say this, do you mean completely stripped down and fleeced?


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## shy_guy

ntamph said:


> This is getting really old.
> 
> The divorce rate for American husband/foreign wife couples is about 20%. Domestic marriages have a divorce rate of 50%. An American man is about 250% more likely to be taken to the cleaners by an American wife than by a foreign wife.


That's interesting. I've never seen that statistic. Can you point me to the source?


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## NextTimeAround

I think location is destiny. 

For example, myself. I don't attract too many black guys because they say I act "too white." But in the midwest where I grew up, interracial dating where the woman is black is very uncommon.

When I moved to the east coast, I was surprised at how few white people readily saw me as black as I am fair skinned but I was regularly identified as black in the mid west.

So I say, go where you have the most opportunity. If you're blond, go where blonds are popular. If you're brunette, go where brunette is popular, and so on......

I advised him to not come to the UK since it is the fattest nation in the EU.


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## ntamph

treyvion said:


> When you say this, do you mean completely stripped down and fleeced?


I'm assuming that in either circumstance the couple will live in the United States. Obviously, any man married to any women (American or foreign) in the United States can have his life ruined (children seen every other weekend, pension gutted, house and car confiscated) in a divorce. However, the idea that foreign women divorce American husbands as soon as they can stay permanently in the US is a blatant lie propagated by feminazis. It's like shamelessly declaring that Texas is smaller than Rhode Island.


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## shy_guy

ntamph said:


> I'm assuming that in either circumstance the couple will live in the United States. Obviously, any man married to any women (American or foreign) in the United States can have his life ruined (children seen every other weekend, pension gutted, house and car confiscated) in a divorce. However, the idea that foreign women divorce American husbands as soon as they can stay permanently in the US is a blatant lie propagated by feminazis. It's like shamelessly declaring that Texas is smaller than Rhode Island.


I think you're confusing a lot of things here. There are a few people who still think that women get married just to come to the US, but I haven't run into much of that attitude for many years ... although the possibility was raised here. It's not something propagated by "feminazis" though, it's an idea held by people who think that all the world over, everyone wants to live in the US. Usually, it's not thought through very well, but how well is this "Feminazi" idea you're posting across threads thought through?


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## ntamph

shy_guy said:


> I think you're confusing a lot of things here. There are a few people who still think that women get married just to come to the US, but I haven't run into much of that attitude for many years ... although the possibility was raised here. It's not something propagated by "feminazis" though, it's an idea held by people who think that all the world over, everyone wants to live in the US. Usually, it's not thought through very well, but how well is this "Feminazi" idea you're posting across threads thought through?


You've got to be kidding me.

Go into any thread that mentions marrying a foreign woman and there will be multiple posts essentially saying "She will leave you as soon as she can." The whole message being that American men are putting themselves at risk by marrying a foreign woman (and implying that American women won't take you for everything you have).

However, the divorce rate for such marriages is WAY lower than domestic marriages. It's a lie designed to scare men from looking into options abroad.


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## TCSRedhead

ntamph said:


> However, the divorce rate for such marriages is WAY lower than domestic marriages. It's a lie designed to scare men from looking into options abroad.


What source are you citing about those statistics?


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## ntamph

TCSRedhead said:


> What source are you citing about those statistics?


The original federal study has been removed from the census bureau website because it contradicted popular preconceptions (I wonder why?):

Don’t Believe The Lies About Foreign Brides


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## TCSRedhead

ntamph said:


> The original federal study has been removed from the census bureau website because it contradicted popular preconceptions (I wonder why?):
> 
> Don’t Believe The Lies About Foreign Brides


So, no official statistics. Yup, that's pretty much what I thought.


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## mablenc

ntamph said:


> I'm assuming that in either circumstance the couple will live in the United States. Obviously, any man married to any women (American or foreign) in the United States can have his life ruined (children seen every other weekend, pension gutted, house and car confiscated) in a divorce. However, the idea that foreign women divorce American husbands as soon as they can stay permanently in the US is a blatant lie propagated by feminazis. It's like shamelessly declaring that Texas is smaller than Rhode Island.


Hmm, how many young beautiful women will sign up to be paired up with usually older men who cant find love. There has to be a driver there. Don't you think? Otherwise, it would not be the booming business that it is now. If you are going to sign up do it, Im sure there are successful couples, but do not go in innocently thinking all women there will are looking for true love and only true love.


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## ntamph

TCSRedhead said:


> So, no official statistics. Yup, that's pretty much what I thought.


About midway down the page they quote the original census bureau numbers that have been deleted from the bureau's website (it shows a "broken link").

I'm curious, do you think that the divorce rate for foreign marriages is higher?


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## ntamph

mablenc said:


> Hmm, how many young beautiful women will sign up to be paired up with usually older men who cant find love. There has to be a driver there. Don't you think? Otherwise, it would not be the booming business that it is now. If you are going to sign up do it, Im sure there are successful couples, but do not go in innocently thinking all women there will are looking for true love and only true love.


Yeah, but when most of the American women on American dating sites have openly stated income requirements ("If you don't make at least $X per year, don't even email me.") what do you call that?


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## mablenc

ntamph said:


> Yeah, but when most of the American women on American dating sites have openly stated income requirements ("If you don't make at least $X per year, don't even email me.") what do you call that?


Being upfront and honest, I'm a gold digger. I would steer clear from those as well.


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## TCSRedhead

ntamph said:


> Yeah, but when most of the American women on American dating sites have openly stated income requirements ("If you don't make at least $X per year, don't even email me.") what do you call that?


Then you avoid THOSE women on golddigger.com and get in to the real world. 

It's strange how I only know a handful of women like that. 

Clearly, you attract some strange company, ntamph.


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## TCSRedhead

In the interest of transparancy, I didn't want to date or be married to someone who wasn't employed or made significantly less than I did. Not because of the status but because many men feel threatened if the WOMAN makes less money so I would have put some guidelines in my profile as well.


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## ntamph

TCSRedhead said:


> In the interest of transparancy, I didn't want to date or be married to someone who wasn't employed or made significantly less than I did. Not because of the status but because many men feel threatened if the WOMAN makes less money so I would have put some guidelines in my profile as well.


:rofl:

Sometimes it's just too easy to prove my point.

Do Women Really Value Income Over Looks in a Mate? | Dollars and Sex | Big Think


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## mablenc

You can find love anywhere a parking lot, a church a website. Love will and can find you. However, if you look for love in websites that offer you love for a high cost and with strings attached (visa, younger women who wants to stay home) then you are putting yourself vulnerable situation. I'm not saying you will get hurt if you take this route, you need to go in with your wide eyes open.


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## Almostrecovered

does getting anally probed by an alien count?


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## TCSRedhead

ntamph said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Sometimes it's just too easy to prove my point.
> 
> Do Women Really Value Income Over Looks in a Mate? | Dollars and Sex | Big Think


You haven't proven anything. Are you really that dense or do you just play dumb?


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## ntamph

mablenc said:


> You can find love anywhere a parking lot, a church a website. Love will and can find you. However, if you look for love in websites that offer you love for a high cost and with strings attached (visa, younger women who wants to stay home) then you are putting yourself vulnerable situation. I'm not saying you will get hurt if you take this route, you need to go in with your wide eyes open.


You can repeat this all you want but the statistics show that men need to keep their eyes open when marrying an American woman a lot more than when marrying a foreign woman.


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## mablenc

TCSRedhead said:


> In the interest of transparancy, I didn't want to date or be married to someone who wasn't employed or made significantly less than I did. Not because of the status but because many men feel threatened if the WOMAN makes less money so I would have put some guidelines in my profile as well.


I guess that would also protect you from male predators as well who just want a hot red head to support them.

Most people when looking for a spouse wants an equal parter meaning that they have dreams and goals in life that are compatible to yours.


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## mablenc

ntamph said:


> You can repeat this all you want but the statistics show that men need to keep their eyes open when marrying an American woman a lot more than when marrying a foreign woman.


Can you provide the statistics please?


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## ScarletBegonias

ntamph said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Sometimes it's just too easy to prove my point.
> 
> Do Women Really Value Income Over Looks in a Mate? | Dollars and Sex | Big Think


I make more than my SO.He's hella sexy though 

It's just too easy to ALWAYS find a ton of people who don't fit the stereotypical mold.


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## ntamph

TCSRedhead said:


> You haven't proven anything. Are you really that dense or do you just play dumb?


I have not insulted you in the this thread and I hope you can do the same for me.


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## TCSRedhead

mablenc said:


> I guess that would also protect you from male predators as well who just want a hot red head to support them.
> 
> Most people when looking for a spouse wants an equal parter meaning that they have dreams and goals in life that are compatible to yours.


And that's the key. I want an EQUAL. I don't want a sugar daddy, I want a partner in life. 

Partnering with a man who makes less than I do and has less ambition resulted in divorce, resentment and abuse. Why would I do that again?


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## ntamph

mablenc said:


> Can you provide the statistics please?


Again:

Don’t Believe The Lies About Foreign Brides


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## TCSRedhead

ntamph said:


> Again:
> 
> Don’t Believe The Lies About Foreign Brides


Again - not a reliable source.


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## ntamph

TCSRedhead said:


> Again - not a reliable source.


If the US Census Bureau is not reliable than I don't know what is.

Do you think that foreign marriages involving American men have a higher or lower divorce rate than domestic ones?


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## mablenc

What is an american woman anyway? 

Im not a white female, I come from a hispanic background but I was born and raised in the US.

I also know many many many professional women in other countries that are independent, educated and successful I'm not sure what the difference you are looking for is.


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## ntamph

Why is an American woman wanting a man "with ambition" who will not become a "burden" to support OK but when a foreign woman does the same things it's dirty and gold digging?


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## mablenc

Even if it was from US Census Bureau, you are looking at one study. One study does not equal truth. I could be wrong but you are not the OP from this tread? Seems like you are thread jacking to me.


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## ScarletBegonias

ntamph said:


> Why is an American woman wanting a man "with ambition" who will not become a "burden" to support OK but when a foreign woman does the same things it's dirty and gold digging?


actually depending on who you ask, it isn't considered ok for American women to want that either.Look around.SAHMs and women who depend on their man are criticized at every turn sometimes viciously. 
It's considered by some to be dirty and golddigging no matter if the woman is foreign or a US native.


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## ntamph

mablenc said:


> Even if it was from US Census Bureau, you are looking at one study. One study does not equal truth. I could be wrong but you are not the OP from this tread? Seems like you are thread jacking to me.


My posts are trying to get the truth to the OP who has been inundated by feminazi lies as soon as he posted his question.


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## TCSRedhead

ntamph said:


> Why is an American woman wanting a man "with ambition" who will not become a "burden" to support OK but when a foreign woman does the same things it's dirty and gold digging?


Where did I cite about 'not becoming a burden'? Don't put words in my mouth.

FWIW, my husband is retired due to a disability. While I do currently make more than him, because we are well matched in ambition and goals, this doesn't pose a problem. We are a good match.

My ex did not make as much and preferred laying around on the couch all day letting me support him. Not a good match.

As for foreign vs domestic marriages, I would state this depends on the relationship. Marriages based on brokerages where the woman is looking to gain admission to the US would have a high fail rate. Marriages based on love and compatibility would have a low rate.

Please post the link to the government website citing those statistics please. Thank you.


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## ScarletBegonias

ntamph said:


> My posts are trying to get the truth to the OP who has been inundated by feminazi lies as soon as he posted his question.


WHO is a feminazi and WHO is a liar? honestly man you don't know any of the people here from adam to feel comfortable enough to calling them liars and feminazi.


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## TCSRedhead

Also, FYI - I am far from anything remotely classified as a feminazi. But again, you continue to assume. It's really working for you.


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## mablenc

I don't think you are posting any "truth" that has any merit, you also seem to be insulting everyone with the word "feminize".


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## ntamph

mablenc said:


> I don't think you are posting any "truth" that has any merit, you also seem to be insulting everyone with the word "feminize".


While the correct term may be "feminists" I use "feminazi" to counter the shaming tactics that feminists use on men to control them.


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## ScarletBegonias

Davelli0331 said:


> Ah. One of those "vast feminist conspiracy" guys. Thank god you're here, we didn't have enough.



when laughing smiley isn't enough:


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## Tomara

As in dating sites/mail order brides. You don't know what you're getting until you set eyes on them. 

Let's just assume that someone meets all your requirement but have a few extra pounds??? Are you shallow enough to not give it a try knowing the other person could keep up?

This kind of reminds me of my girlfriend. She wants Tom Selleck drop dead georgous, money, body to die for and will not settle for anything less. However, she is 300 herself and the drummmmmmrolllllll......she is single single single.

Realistic?

Looks are skin deep, peel back the layers there may be a bloom onion in there LOL


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## Tomara

ScarletBegonias said:


> when laughing smiley isn't enough:


BS you crack me up!


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## JCD

Davelli0331 said:


> On a serious note, OP, others have mentioned, but I don't think you've clarified:
> 
> If you've not met a decent woman in your city, why are you automatically deciding to look internationally? Surely there are neighboring cities? It's an honest and innocent question. Is there something besides just an active lifestyle and physical attraction that you think a non-American woman would have?


It has been my (mostly limited experience) that a lot of other cultures don't exactly have strong exercise programs as a recreation (too busy earning money) but PARTICULARLY for their women. You will meet exceptions, but Asia for example seems to limit exercise to tennis or golf.

The exceptions are...well...exceptional.


----------



## Viseral

Just move to San Diego, Miami, or possibly Denver. Tons of hot single outdoorsy women there....


----------



## tulsy

ClarksonSGX said:


> I am ready to give up on dating...am 42 year old. I have tried just about every dating service there is. I do not know why but it seems like it is impossible to find anyone here that is singles and not over weight.
> 
> ...You must have many things is common, things you like to do together, things to spend quality time together. I like to go *hiking, ride bicycle, play sports, go skiing, mountain climbing, and white water rafting*. ...
> 
> ....I have been dating here for almost 25 years, it is time for me to start a family. I have realized now that it is never going to happen in this city.


25 years of dating and you can't find someone??

First of all, if you are into all of those activities, do you actually partake in those activities? Or are you just saying you would like someone to do those things with?

The reason I ask is because any of those activities you list have plenty of single people who practice them, it just seems strange that you haven`t met someone while performing any of those activities for 25 years. You can meet tons of women in Yoga or hot-yoga, swimming, girls love volleyball, any kind of dancing, etc. Something's missing here.

If you are active and fun, it should be easy to find someone or even many people to interact with. You throw out to the world (project) what you want to attract. People would naturally gravitate to others with shared interests....unless you are severely antisocial, and if so, you will probably have issues dating over-seas too.

Maybe it`s you? Are you confident in person in one-on-one situations, real world (not chat-room)?


----------



## shy_guy

ntamph said:


> If the US Census Bureau is not reliable than I don't know what is.
> 
> Do you think that foreign marriages involving American men have a higher or lower divorce rate than domestic ones?


I can't get the page to open for me from where I am, but the URL goes to www.returnoftheking.com and you said that the link it broken. Asking me to trust that source is asking me to put my brain in neutral, and I just don't think that way in any area of my life. Surely you can see why people would look at this (which I'm anticipating is a blog post) and not just buy off on it.

*EDIT: *I've got it open now and I've been through the links. I'm not finding support for your claim of percentages. I'll go through it more but I have to get ready for work. A quick search when I finally get to the source documents and past the interpretations of bloggers did not find the word "Divorce" or "Success" in any of them, so I'll have to look a little closer. The studies do not appear to even be dealing with success or divorce rates, though.

But these are your links and the support to your point, I think you could help us by pointing us to the source, instead of claims in a blog. I think you can understand the difference, can you not?


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## Wiserforit

The OP indicates he does not find satisfactory candidates in his own country and is attacked with the opposite put-down: that he is a loser who isn't worthy of anyone in his own country, so he has to resort to a lesser human from another country.

His point is absolute fact. The U.S. has led the world in obesity for many, many years:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg/450px-Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg.png

We have on the order of TEN TMES the obesity rate as some of the Asian countries, and the gap is even wider as you get out of the teenage years and into mid-life. That's what this fellow is saying and it is true in the starkest terms. It's amazing when you step off the plane coming back from an Asian country how fat Americans are. 

Women are also NOT the same from country to country by and large in terms of how their culture views men. The relentless misandry in the US is completely absent in a lot of countries, so you hear men being criticized for bringing home young, beautiful slim and devoted wives because they are "submissive". 


OP, I can't speak for brokers and dating/marriage sites because I didn't use one. I traveled extensively for many years in my work and also doing some wonderful expeditions to remote places. A fellow sure gets used to being treated like a rock star by women who are more fit and more beautiful than their American counterparts.

Over the years and dozens of countries I found not just a country, but a specific subculture and ethnic mix that really appealed to me. This is important because you see guys going to international dating sites without a clue about how countries differ culturally, then they bring them here and both spouses have this culture shock.

There wasn't any cultural learning curve for me because I had been to six different Philippine Islands over the years and knew more about the history of Mindanao than my wife did when I met her. I lived with her family for several months before applying K-1 visa, and boy do you learn who they really are by living there with them.

The one thing that really cuts through all of the potential scamming is to maximize the amount of time you spend not just in her country, not just her city, but in her HOUSE with her family, friends, neighbors, school-mates etc. all around you. There isn't anything they can hide with that kind of approach.

If you meet on the internet and only spend a number of days with them in some other city then there is too much opportunity for them to manipulate you by morphing into whoever you want them to be and lying about their background. 

So I encourage you to research cultures carefully and to maximize the amount of time you actually spend in their country getting to know their family, friends, and everyone important to them. If you can, I'd drop the dating site business altogether and just go.


----------



## JCD

Wiserforit said:


> There wasn't any cultural learning curve for me because I had been to six different Philippine Islands over the years and knew more about the history of Mindanao than my wife did when I met her. I lived with her family for several months before applying K-1 visa, and boy do you learn who they really are by living there with them.
> 
> The one thing that really cuts through all of the potential scamming is to maximize the amount of time you spend not just in her country, not just her city, but in her HOUSE with her family, friends, neighbors, school-mates etc. all around you. There isn't anything they can hide with that kind of approach.
> 
> If you meet on the internet and only spend a number of days with them in some other city then there is too much opportunity for them to manipulate you by morphing into whoever you want them to be and lying about their background.
> 
> So I encourage you to research cultures carefully and to maximize the amount of time you actually spend in their country getting to know their family, friends, and everyone important to them. If you can, I'd drop the dating site business altogether and just go.


This is exactly correct. One has to actually spend a lot of time with the person involved and SEE what he is getting. 

Most people looking for an international wife just check out the picture (oft retouched) and the age of the person (often lied about).

One more semi horror story. A man married an Asian lady. He was older as was she. He actually lived in the country she came from. Well...after a bit of time her first kid was introduced to him.

And, yes, FIRST is an operative term. Cause after he calmed down about that, the Second, Third and Fourth also appeared...with pauses between each to let him get used to the...shock? Betrayal?

So KNOWING who the person is and actually speaking the language is almost critical. I didn't learn the language (I continue to try) but I spent more than a couple of months and emails with the girl involved.

So OP, I would suggest this isn't as easy a solution as you'd like...at least if you do this properly. But building a relationship is HARD....


----------



## BrockLanders

I used to go to bars that were filled with Latinas, they were a sucker for a white guy who could speak Spanish. I can clean up in those places. I'm long done with European American women, Latinas are so much hotter.


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## whitehawk

Hey Clark.
Don't worry if a few w criticize , read some of their stuff , if anything they're worse than us. l think the inner beauty is the female excuse and a crock . Doesn't cut it with me l need both. l'm in good shape and l want the same.

l think for you this is a looking too hard thing. l'd take some time out and just enjoy what you enjoy if it was me .
lf you do go os go Asian , they age beautifully and appreciate a good man.

Gonna cop a beating for this one - ohwell :lol:


----------



## shy_guy

whitehawk said:


> Hey Clark.
> Don't worry if a few w criticize , read some of their stuff , if anything they're worse than us. l think the inner beauty is the female excuse and a crock . Doesn't cut it with me l need both. l'm in good shape and l want the same.
> 
> l think for you this is a looking too hard thing. l'd take some time out and just enjoy what you enjoy if it was me .
> *lf you do go os go Asian , they age beautifully and appreciate a good man.*
> 
> Gonna cop a beating for this one - ohwell :lol:


I'm not sure if *that* was serious, but if so ... 










My head hurts. I'm starting to feel like I'm in a foreign country when I'm talking to westerners ... which means I'm about to just take the attitude that "You can't change the whole country." ... but if I did that, I'd be doing the same type of stereotyping I keep reading over and over and over until ...


----------



## OhGeesh

ntamph said:


> While the correct term may be "feminists" I use "feminazi" to counter the shaming tactics that feminists use on men to control them.


As a happily married man for the last 20 years YOU my friend have some serious issues somewhere. 

Why in the world would any NORMAL person want a MAIL ORDER BRIDE is beyond me. Maybe someone with ridiculously low self esteem who wants to PURCHASE some sort of companionship? 

You offend all of the great women in the US by your comments. Why the affinity for mail order brides? Why don't you tell us your story because they way you post I guarantee everyone there is a very juicy story in your closet somewhere!

To the OP unless you live in a really small town you are using the wrong sites or have extremely high standards.

Tell me what have you used?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I live in NH and am nearly 50 and have the same issues from the female side. My last serious relationship did all the fun physical stuff...dancing, kayaking, hiking, rock climbing, skiing, and seemed healthy enoug...ended up having a severe brain hemorrhage. Back to the drawing board, sadly. The older you get, the more difficult it will be to find someone compatible who is also healthy. 

The thing is, I wouldn't make it an absolute a criteria for a relationship. Had it not been for his family taking custody of him, I'd still be with that guy, and his ability to do those physical activities (and others) is somewhat limited now, of course. Anybody can become disabled just by catching the wrong communicable disease or by crossing the street. So, you should be prepared for disabled and disfigured if you are in a relationship with another person, and think about the long term too, what would happen to the relationship if suddenly it were YOU who could not do any of these activities any more. I am sure if the tables were turned with me and this guy, it would have made no difference to him.

You can't really put a person out to pasture like a horse that has seen its day...of course, you can, but do you want to be the kind of person who does that?

The big criteria should be how you feel about yourself when you are with the other person, regardless of activity or setting.


----------



## whitehawk

Shy guy , fk me that is the funniest picture man . Been back 3 times so far, cracks me up . :rofl:


----------



## SurpriseMyself

ClarksonSGX said:


> I am ready to give up on dating. I live in ******* Wisconsin and am 42 year old. I have tried just about every dating service there is. I do not know why but it seems like it is impossible to find anyone here that is singles and not over weight. I know you women will scream look for the inner beauty. But inner beauty is only one part of a long lasting relationship. You must have many things is common, things you like to do together, things to spend quality time together. I like to go hiking, ride bicycle, play sports, go skiing, mountain climbing, and white water rafting. None of these things I can hope to do with someone who gets winded walking up one flight of stairs. So what is the point of getting married if there is nothing you can do together you both enjoy. I do not know what is about *******, but women here over 40 are just not in to athletics, sure you see lots of fit women working and stating fit but they are all already married.
> 
> So here is my question, I have been considering using an international marriage broker. Has anyone ever used one or knows some who has? Did the marriage last? Did she change after she arrived? Any feedback would be helpful, and please women don’t criticize me for looking at my options. I have been dating here for almost 25 years, it is time for me to start a family. I have realized now that it is never going to happen in this city.


I'm imaging your female version now:

You must have many things is common, things you like to do together, things to spend quality time together. I like to host dinner parties, talk on the phone, read, go antiquing, play bunco with friends, and walk after dinner. 

Let me say that I know a TON of women who like to do ALL the things I listed above. I know very few women who like to hike, ski, mountain bike, etc. What if all the women out there expected their men to like to host dinner parties, get their nails done, go to book club, etc. Sorry, but you need to consider the bigger picture here. You've narrowed your own pool of people down to, let's see, practically no one, and then you bemoan that fact. Time to rethink this after 25 years.


----------



## norajane

> *I like to go hiking, ride bicycle, play sports, go skiing, mountain climbing, and white water rafting. *
> 
> So here is my question, I have been considering using an international marriage broker. Has anyone ever used one or knows some who has? Did the marriage last? Did she change after she arrived? Any feedback would be helpful, and please women don’t criticize me for looking at my options. I have been dating here for almost 25 years, *it is time for me to start a family. *


Neither you nor your wife will have much time for hiking, riding, sports, skiing, mountain climbing and white water rafting when you have kids.

And your in-shape wife might be a bit less in shape after kids.

So, if you really want a family, you need to re-align your priorities in a mate.

But you've only posted once on your thread, so maybe this isn't really a concern.


----------



## TCSRedhead




----------



## Cosmos

> Originally Posted by *Cosmos *
> Your complaint seems to be an international one and is not gender specific. The one and only time I used a (reputable) dating site some years ago, it resulted in some catastrophic, life altering events - so do be careful.
> 
> If you are talking about mail order brides - again, be careful. I've heard a lot of horror stories about those, too.
> 
> IMO, the best way to meet like minded people is by joining clubs and engaging in activities that are likely to bring you into contact





ntamph said:


> This is getting really old.
> 
> The divorce rate for American husband/foreign wife couples is about 20%. Domestic marriages have a divorce rate of 50%. An American man is about 250% more likely to be taken to the cleaners by an American wife than by a foreign wife.


What, exactly, is "getting really old?"

I was sharing my _own_ personal experiences for the benefit of the OP. I'm not here to debate them with you or anybody else.


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## whitehawk

Yep read other stats the same.
Known lots of mixed families , Asians, Europeans, especially growing up . My city was a real mix . Even as a kid l really admired a lot of them and noticed things .
You know what the biggest was , guts . By God those women had guts .
l noticed it even at 12-13 , then went home to my 6 sisters that just sat on their [email protected]@ *****ing and trying to train the brothers to jump through their hoops .that's how it was .

PS , l'm not saying all btw way , even here I so respect some of the girls but there is a definite pattern otherwise .
l actually want my new girl to have suffered a bit even a lot , not some spoilt rotten so n so . Call it what you like I don't care but if she hasn't know my pain , forget it. She's gonna need a bit of damn respect for life , marriage , any hard yards that will come up if I'm going near her .


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## EleGirl

If you are looking for a athletic woman then look where athletic women hang out. And no, not all of them are married. Not by a long shot.

Try this web site. It's not a dating site... Find Meetup groups near you - Meetup

Go to meet-ups where people are doing the sorts of things you like... hiking, walking, working out... There will be single women there who are interested in a man who likes what they like.. to be active.

Also.. join a gym.. let the women know you are looking. If they are married they probably have a single female friend to introduce you to. 

If you go looking for a partner/spouse on an international dating/wife site you it will be a long distance relationship for some time. It can be very costly. But mostly it's very hard to really get to know a person in a long distance relationship. It's easier for them to hide things about their life that they do not want you to know and to pretend to be something they are not. I've been through this. Do not suggest it to anyone.


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## EleGirl

whitehawk said:


> l noticed it even at 12-13 , then went home to my 6 sisters that just sat on their [email protected]@ *****ing and trying to train the brothers to jump through their hoops .
> Sorry girls , true , that's how it was .


Why would you apologize for you sisters being lazy and bossing you around. The why your sisters behave have nothing to do with any other woman in the world... not even the women in the USA.


----------



## JCD

whitehawk said:


> Yep read other stats the same.
> Known lots of mixed families , Asians, Europeans, especially growing up . My city was a real mix . Even as a kid l really admired a lot of them and noticed things .
> You know what the biggest was , guts . By God those women had guts .
> l noticed it even at 12-13 , then went home to my 6 sisters that just sat on their [email protected]@ *****ing and trying to train the brothers to jump through their hoops .
> Sorry girls , true , that's how it was .
> 
> PS , l'm not saying all btw way , even here I so respect some of the girls but there is a definite pattern otherwise .
> l actually want my new girl to have suffered a bit even a lot , not some spoilt rotten so n so . Call it what you like I don't care but if she hasn't know my pain , forget it. She's gonna need a bit of damn respect for life , marriage , any hard yards that will come up if I'm going near her .


This has less to do with the generic women of 'that country' wherever that country is, and the fact that these women who left their nations self selected to CHANGE their circumstance. THEY made the choice to make things move for them.

I know...I married one. Frankly, she's better, braver, and more driven than most of my neighbor's wives. And she has a sense of humor. What's not to love?

BUT...she made those changes herself. Being willing to give up some sex to have someone else make the changes FOR whatever Third World person you find, OP, is not exactly a smart move.

Much smarter to find a woman who is ALREADY HERE as a foreigner, if you have so little faith in American women.

BUT...here is the rub with a situation like that. She's looking AND ACTING to better herself. What makes you think that she's willing to stop with YOU? She might marry you for real and equitable reasons...but if you don't at least match her in her ambitions, she will leave you in the dust!


Plus...lower your standards. You are not going to find a Russian or Thai Angelina Jolie who is going to be satisfied on your middle class income and worship your manhood out of gratitude for removing her from her homeland.

That quality of girl doesn't NEED to leave her country. She has her pick of the best of her homeland. You will get someone significantly less stellar.

I note that you haven't reposted OP. Too bad. You might have learned a lot.


----------



## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> Yeah, but when most of the American women on American dating sites have openly stated income requirements ("If you don't make at least $X per year, don't even email me.") what do you call that?


I've browsed through a lot of American dating sites and do not recall any woman posting something like that. Why are you making this stuff up. Don't you realize that every one of us here have computers and can double check this nonsense?


----------



## EleGirl

ntamph said:


> This is getting really old.
> 
> The divorce rate for American husband/foreign wife couples is about 20%. Domestic marriages have a divorce rate of 50%. An American man is about 250% more likely to be taken to the cleaners by an American wife than by a foreign wife.


The statistic of 50% divorce rate comes from a reporter in the 1970’s who counted the number of marriages and divorces for that one particular year in one court house in the USA. In that particular year, twice as many people got marred as got divorced. The 50% tells us nothing about the actual divorce rate.

There are two major factors that influence divorce rate: Age at marriage, income level and education level. The older one is at the time of marriage, the higher their education and the higher their income …. The less likely they will divorce.

The USA has two divorce rates, or strata: 

20% divorce rate……. College-educated women who marry after the age of 25

40% divorce rate……. poor, primarily minority women who marry before the age of 25 and do not have a college degree

>50% divorce rate… black women in high-poverty areas

“(Most of the research focused on women; the little I read about men suggested similar outcomes.)”

First marriages – 30%, thus 70% of first marriage never end in divorce.

One report indicated that the divorce rate for remarried, white women is 15 percent after three years and 25 percent after five years.

The Myth of the High Rate of Divorce | Psych Central - Part 2

These stats are available all over the internet.. the above link is just the first one that came up tonight.


----------



## JCD

I would add that while 'traditional cultures' MAY work harder on marriages (though all those Thai women on the broker sites generally have some kids and were abandoned by their sperm donor Boyfriends, hence low divorce rates...cause they were never married!) you also add a hell of a lot of additional factors re: different cultures and religion which put extra stress on a marriage.

So don't expect magic from overseas. It's just like any other relationship: work. 

Girlfriend for Sale. (Documentary. Probably work friendly)

BTW, if you watch the video and think 'Fong' is staying true to her Brit BF who is away...I got some real estate to sell you in Florida. She's making hay while the sun shines


----------



## whitehawk

EleGirl said:


> Why would you apologize for you sisters being lazy and bossing you around. The why your sisters behave have nothing to do with any other woman in the world... not even the women in the USA.


Because the girls will jump all over it
sisters or not but no problem , took that sucker out.
happy


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Before I broke my neck my husband and I raced in triathlons together, ran 5 and 10k's, went o daily hikes/walks, swam, biked, trained, the whole nine yards. We still have many many things in common and love spending time together everyday when he returns home from work even though we don't exercise together.

Just because I can't even walk anymore doesn't make me a horrible or boring woman. I do hate being pushed in a wheelchair, it's embarrassing. I still bike a little to get some exercise. I may not be my running size, but I'm still not over weight(yet). It is harder to maintain weight at 40 and above, especially when your disabled. I'm also not a fan of fast or fried foods.

Honestly, you can not speak on behalf if all women. Just because someone is overweight does not make them less of a person ever. The same goes for men too.

My husband is extremely athletic. He trains daily for triathlons and ironmans! Plus he's extremely supportive of my disability and an excellent husband/father. Just because I'm an American does not make me less of a woman either.

I was not athletic when I met my husband. In fact I smoked a pack of cigarettes a day. After our first date I quit and became a runner. I was running 36 miles a week before I broke my neck.


----------



## EleGirl

whitehawk said:


> Because the girls will jump all over it
> sisters or not but no problem , took that sucker out.
> happy


I have no idea what this means. Are you drunk?


----------



## shy_guy

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Before I broke my neck my husband and I raced in triathlons together, ran 5 and 10k's, went o daily hikes/walks, swam, biked, trained, the whole nine yards. We still have many many things in common and love spending time together everyday when he returns home from work even though we don't exercise together.
> 
> Just because I can't even walk anymore doesn't make me a horrible or boring woman. I do hate being pushed in a wheelchair, it's embarrassing. I still bike a little to get some exercise. I may not be my running size, but I'm still not over weight(yet). It is harder to maintain weight at 40 and above, especially when your disabled. I'm also not a fan of fast or fried foods.
> 
> Honestly, you can not speak on behalf if all women. Just because someone is overweight does not make them less of a person ever. The same goes for men too.
> 
> My husband is extremely athletic. He trains daily for triathlons and ironmans! Plus he's extremely supportive of my disability and an excellent husband/father. Just because I'm an American does not make me less of a woman either.
> 
> I was not athletic when I met my husband. In fact I smoked a pack of cigarettes a day. After our first date I quit and became a runner. I was running 36 miles a week before I broke my neck.


I'm glad you wrote this. I don't think people, myself included, take time very often to think of the world from the side you described. 

My younger brother lost his left leg about mid-thigh a few years ago. He's tough as nails, and even I was surprised at how quickly he got back up, and continued on with life, albeit now a life with a prosthetic leg. About a year after that accident, he came to visit us, and he was able to make it on a 4 mile hike with us, but it was very hard for him - it's just a lot more effort for him to walk and although he wants desperately to be active, he just can't be active the way he used to be, and his weight is a struggle for him now (although he's quick to joke with us that he's lighter than he would be if he still had that other leg ... we're rather bizarre in our sense of humor, even asking him how busy he'd be in a butt kicking contest ... to which he laughs and always has a smart retort ... keeps the spirits up I think).

Unfortunately, his wife left him a little more than a year after he lost his leg. I can't ascribe motives to her because I've had no contact with her since that time and my brother refuses to get down on her ... but losing her hurt him more than losing his leg. 

These things are life, and I think when someone promises to love "in sickness and in health," they need to mean it when they say those words, and they need to be ready because none of us are promised tomorrow, and none of us are promised health. There is no way to predict if, and if, then to whom.


----------



## Goldmember357

ntamph said:


> This is getting really old.
> 
> The divorce rate for American husband/foreign wife couples is about 20%. Domestic marriages have a divorce rate of 50%. An American man is about 250% more likely to be taken to the cleaners by an American wife than by a foreign wife.


That's cause the average person who marries a foreign individual is older, more experienced in life and flexible (likely is okay with travel). U.S. divorce rate is so high because of all the young people who get married at incredibly young ages, only to divorce a few years down the line. People who marry later in life, like their 30's have much higher rate of success. I mean do you know how many people in the U.S. especially from area's with little opportunity marry the first person they find? compare the success that will have, vs someone who goes out and makes a rather bold and very different decision in choosing someone from an entirely different country with a different culture, the people who pair up in those situations ARE going to have thought out marriage way more than those who marry someone who they "assume" will fill their voids, based off nothing other than assumptions and the fact set person comes from "similar" class/region.

Marriages in which the man is looking for a foreign gold digger who wants a green card do not tend to last, and if they do last they are not "typical" marriages. In other words the man is wanting a F#ck doll and the woman is wanting nice items all the time.


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## Goldmember357

I don't think OP should give up on dating in the US. However, giving up dating in his city/town or region might be understandable. I mean finding an in shape, attractive, athletic, interesting, woman in her 40's with no kids is exceptionally rare. Him being an in shape, attractive, outdoorsy athletic individual means he is also a very rare commodity. Very few men in at that age are athletic, so in many ways OP is hot item on the market to many single/unhappy/or women who want to have affairs. 

His issue is finding a woman for the long term, and given his criteria it will be hard to find his "ideal" woman, but it's not impossible. OP should not have to "settle" like so many people do in life which only leads to unhappiness. 

The only advice I can give is that OP should MOVE, (the U.S. is very large and diverse) and depending on the city/region you might have tons of athletic women or none. In addition OP might have to accept that any woman around his age LIKELY has kids, and that should not put him off UNLESS he wants to have his own kids. If he wants his own kids he will need to marry a younger woman which he can certainly do and find.


----------



## Quant

OP Should expand his dating pool as much as possible, however that does not mean not looking in America as well. You should be looking in every country to maximize your chances of finding someone you are compatible with.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Goldmember357 said:


> I don't think OP should give up on dating in the US. However, giving up dating in his city/town or region might be understandable. I mean finding an in shape, attractive, athletic, interesting, woman in her 40's with no kids is exceptionally rare. Him being an in shape, attractive, outdoorsy athletic individual means he is also a very rare commodity. Very few men in at that age are athletic, so in many ways OP is hot item on the market to many single/unhappy/or women who want to have affairs.
> 
> His issue is finding a woman for the long term, and given his criteria it will be hard to find his "ideal" woman, but it's not impossible. OP should not have to "settle" like so many people do in life which only leads to unhappiness.
> 
> The only advice I can give is that OP should MOVE, (the U.S. is very large and diverse) and depending on the city/region you might have tons of athletic women or none. In addition OP might have to accept that any woman around his age LIKELY has kids, and that should not put him off UNLESS he wants to have his own kids. If he wants his own kids he will need to marry a younger woman which he can certainly do and find.


I don't know ... I live in one of the fattest states in the country and there are tons of attractive, in-shape 40-something women here. Check-in at the local marathon, triathlon, ironman, etc. and you will see many of them. A lot of them are divorced.

Now, finding one that has never had kids is the real challenge. 

Why the no-kids rule? I'm in my mid 40s and my wife and I had children late so they are still young ... but I would venture to say that at least 3/4 of my friends who are my age have children who are close to or have already moved out of the house.


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## Dirkbwash

International dating service ha?, is in it just another name for Mail Order Bride? Sounds like you are looking to buy a wife!


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## Dirkbwash

International dating service ha?, is in it just another name for Mail Order Bride? Sounds like you are looking to buy a wife!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

If it wasn't for mail order brides, I wouldn't be alive today. My grandfather married a mail order bride. They had 13 children.


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## whitehawk

My x brother in law met some rich German girl in one of the international sites and she moved over and bought him a farm - talk about land on your feet.

So he left my sister and their 2 kids , nice touch !


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## ClarksonSGX

Dirkbwash , I am not sure why you would call it mail order bride, Is there a certain distance the distinguishes mail order bride form non mail order brides, I have had many women from California write me in the past, so would they be a mail order bride because they are 2000 miles away? If a women meets a man in Paris it is so romantic, but if a man meets a women in another Country they call it a mail order bride.

Seem like a big double standard!


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## not_bubba

Seems this thread is being jacked by a bunch of people having wars on which gender/nationality is worse. Frankly, the disucssion is silly. Both genders have a lot of good and bad and a big spread person to person. Ditto for nationalities. 

But to try and help the guy who posted: I am a fairly active guy who did a lot of extreme outdoor stuff such as higher level mountain and ice climbing, surfing, .... I can tell the others that if you do such stuff in the usa you will run into 90% + men and your odds are dismal with the remaining percentage of the fairer sex. Most will be surrounded with men of their pick and probably not interested in a ~40 year old guy. Ironically, most people you run into in such activities are also not from the usa even when in the usa/Canada. On average we are not so athletic/adventurous here: male or female. Sorry. Yes, exceptions abound and we have extreme athletes here in the usa that do well. BUT our average is not so good compared to say western Europe. I don't know what level the poster was talking about for this all to be relevant. But going to the local gym climbing wall may not cut it and he may not have time for it. 

Additionally, I have a foreign wife I met working aborad. My guess is you will have more marriage problems rather than less with this route. The simple reason for this is you have cultural differences on top of the usual inevitable problems (people are people all over). Also, if you do not like her culture and know a lot about it you are going to be starting out in trouble. Mail order brides are also unlikely to be into the outdoor stuff since most are from areas with other pressing concerns. I speak decent Russian, but I would be scared of Russian mail order brides say from knowing the culture (which I like a lot). 

My wife is not into dangerous outdoor stuff at all and I make no attempt to steer her there (do not want to be responsible for a disaster). We have other problems that are not related. The cultural disconnect may somewhat compound those problems for me. 

My recommendation to you: You are too old to be picky. Don't expect a perfect fit and realize you may not be the dream for the rare type of woman you seek. Compromise on things and hopefully you can overlap with a few in some subset of attributes you seek. Look near home and more broadly but avoid cultures you know nothing about and have no reason for contact with. Make rational choice since the quandry will get worse in time. Keep in mind if you are doing things like high level climbing you will not be doing it that much longer too.


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## EleGirl

whitehawk said:


> My x brother in law met some rich German girl in one of the international sites and she moved over and bought him a farm - talk about land on your feet.
> 
> So he left my sister and their 2 kids , nice touch !


He sounds like a real gem.. NOT. This German girl need to be careful 'cause he'll leave her for the next rich one if can get more out of.


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## whitehawk

not_bubba said:


> Seems this thread is being jacked by a bunch of people having wars on which gender/nationality is worse. Frankly, the disucssion is silly. Both genders have a lot of good and bad and a big spread person to person. Ditto for nationalities.
> 
> But to try and help the guy who posted: I am a fairly active guy who did a lot of extreme outdoor stuff such as higher level mountain and ice climbing, surfing, .... I can tell the others that if you do such stuff in the usa you will run into 90% + men and your odds are dismal with the remaining percentage of the fairer sex. Most will be surrounded with men of their pick and probably not interested in a ~40 year old guy. Ironically, most people you run into in such activities are also not from the usa even when in the usa/Canada. On average we are not so athletic/adventurous here: male or female. Sorry. Yes, exceptions abound and we have extreme athletes here in the usa that do well. BUT our average is not so good compared to say western Europe. I don't know what level the poster was talking about for this all to be relevant. But going to the local gym climbing wall may not cut it and he may not have time for it.
> 
> Additionally, I have a foreign wife I met working aborad. My guess is you will have more marriage problems rather than less with this route. The simple reason for this is you have cultural differences on top of the usual inevitable problems (people are people all over). Also, if you do not like her culture and know a lot about it you are going to be starting out in trouble. Mail order brides are also unlikely to be into the outdoor stuff since most are from areas with other pressing concerns. I speak decent Russian, but I would be scared of Russian mail order brides say from knowing the culture (which I like a lot).
> 
> My wife is not into dangerous outdoor stuff at all and I make no attempt to steer her there (do not want to be responsible for a disaster). We have other problems that are not related. The cultural disconnect may somewhat compound those problems for me.
> 
> My recommendation to you: You are too old to be picky. Don't expect a perfect fit and realize you may not be the dream for the rare type of woman you seek. Compromise on things and hopefully you can overlap with a few in some subset of attributes you seek. Look near home and more broadly but avoid cultures you know nothing about and have no reason for contact with. Make rational choice since the quandry will get worse in time. Keep in mind if you are doing things like high level climbing you will not be doing it that much longer too.



Exactly , happens everytime


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## whitehawk

EleGirl said:


> He sounds like a real gem.. NOT. This German girl need to be careful 'cause he'll leave her for the next rich one if can get more out of.



Yeah that's for sure . We all knew and tried to warn her , it was really sad stuff.
Hey , apparently the German looks like a human Giraffe , there's some karma


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## RandomDude

Cosmos said:


> IMO, the best way to meet like minded people is by joining clubs and engaging in activities that are likely to bring you into contact with them.


Quoted for truth


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## Davidd

Hello, I met my wife several years ago on what they call a romance tour to the Cartagena. I can tell you that my wife has worked out completely; she is the best women I have ever met, beautiful inside and out.

We have so much in common I could not believe it and the best thing is she appreciates me. I think that was the worst thing about dating before is just the lack of appreciation.


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## Dirkbwash

@Davidd 

just wait till she gets her green card and hits the road. You think she married an American just because she likes you?


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## JCD

Davidd said:


> Hello, I met my wife several years ago on what they call a romance tour to the Cartagena. I can tell you that my wife has worked out completely; she is the best women I have ever met, beautiful inside and out.
> 
> We have so much in common I could not believe it and the best thing is she appreciates me. I think that was the worst thing about dating before is just the lack of appreciation.





Dirkbwash said:


> @Davidd
> 
> just wait till she gets her green card and hits the road. You think she married an American just because she likes you?


I think this is an uncalled for response. My wife and I have gotten along for a LONG time. Post green card. Post Anchor baby. Post Citizenship. David said that he is also working out fine. Why aren't you believing him?

I think it would be more logical to ask how many OTHER relationships on that romance tour worked out as well as David's.

Love CAN come in a package from Russia....or an internet chat...or a girl you just run into randomly.

But odds are just a touch slimmer. He should know that.


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## Bill Sanders

Dirkbwash said:


> @Davidd
> 
> just wait till she gets her green card and hits the road. You think she married an American just because she likes you?


After years of failed relationships with North American (Canadian) women, I met a Russian woman online. She was 32 (I was 37) and knew absolutely no English at all. We communicated through an interpreter for about 9 months before I decided to fly down and marry her. Of course I knew no Russian either so the marriage was handled through an interpreter too.

It was quite difficult in the beginning when she first came to Canada. Our ways of life are very different from Russia. We fought like cats and dogs for the first year.... but it was worth it. We've now been married 11 years, have one wonderful child, and she's the best woman in the world

Oh... and she received her full Canadian Citizenship about 8 years ago. She's still here


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## Bill Sanders

JCD said:


> I would add that while 'traditional cultures' MAY (DO) work harder on marriages


 YUP.



> you also add a hell of a lot of additional factors re: different cultures and religion which put extra stress on a marriage.


 Absolutely true. The cultural differences are a big stumbling block and you have to fight your way past it. But when you find some one who is willing to work harder.....



> So don't expect magic from overseas. It's just like any other relationship: work.


 I found magic. Now that's not to say there aren't disaster stories on the net. On the other hand if you're 40 years old looking at pictures of 20 year old girls... well... you're probably doomed from the start. But my wife was just like me.... divorced, disillusioned and merely looking for the real thing.... and not at all scared of the work involved in making a marriage successful.


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## JCD

Bill Sanders said:


> I found magic. Now that's not to say there aren't disaster stories on the net. On the other hand if you're 40 years old looking at pictures of 20 year old girls... well... you're probably doomed from the start. But my wife was just like me.... divorced, disillusioned and merely looking for the real thing.... and not at all scared of the work involved in making a marriage successful.


I beg to differ. 'Magic' would be you gaze into each other's eyes...and you never fought, she worked like a demon to learn English (while you did the same in Russian), things sailed smoothly, and you lived happily ever after with nary a speed bump like a Jane Austen marriage.

That isn't what happened. Two people who were willing to get down and dirty worked hard, had a rough year getting the parts fitted and now, it's all fine tuning.

That isn't magic. That's a relationship.


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## Wiserforit

Bill Sanders said:


> The cultural differences are a big stumbling block and you have to fight your way past it.


Not when you specifically target the culture you WANT.

That's the way we did it. My wife wasn't looking for a foreign marriage. She wasn't on any kind of dating or introduction site. 

Knowing their culture is an enormous advantage. That's why we both felt like we knew each other already. I could tell her I understood how she thought because of her cultural upbringing. That I was specifically attracted to her for those reasons. 

Go travel. Just go see them. Someone mentioned knowing spanish made you the lady-slayer south of the US border. Yes, indeed I spent a lot of years in South America mostly. But there were some cultural affectations I didn't like about them. 

Spanish helps with Visayan because the Spanish ruled for almost four centuries so much of the Visayan vocabulary is Spanish. So... if you can speak Spanish, the southern Philippines is going to be an easy adjustment linguistically for you. A little international dating tip, there. 

Nahigugma Ko Nimo Asawa Ko.


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## Catherine602

Bill Sanders said:


> YUP.
> 
> Absolutely true. The cultural differences are a big stumbling block and you have to fight your way past it. But when you find some one who is willing to work harder.....
> 
> I found magic. Now that's not to say there aren't disaster stories on the net. On the other hand if you're 40 years old looking at pictures of 20 year old girls... well... you're probably doomed from the start. But my wife was just like me.... divorced, disillusioned and merely looking for the real thing.... and not at all scared of the work involved in making a marriage successful.


Bill I don't think that you give yourself enough credit for the success of your marriage. It is important to note that you and your wife worked hard to make your marriage work. 

Neither of you bailed when you were looking for areas of agreement and compromise at the beginning of your marriage. 

I have a feeling she is special to you not only because she is Russian but because she is herself and her heritage is part of who she is. I bet she feels the same about you. 

I would say that it is usually the Westerner who is at fault when these marriages go south. The expectations are unrealistic. 

Believing that a bond can be formed between two people after a few meetings over a short period of time is unrealistic. 

It is true that Russian women are raised to be more domestic than Western women. But there are no guarantees when considering individuals. 

Bill, you and your wife were patient and vetted each other before jumping in. Moreover, You and your wife were committed to the relationship and did not bail at the first sign of conflict.


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## JCD

Wiserforit said:


> Not when you specifically target the culture you WANT.
> 
> That's the way we did it. My wife wasn't looking for a foreign marriage. She wasn't on any kind of dating or introduction site.
> 
> Knowing their culture is an enormous advantage. That's why we both felt like we knew each other already. I could tell her I understood how she thought because of her cultural upbringing. That I was specifically attracted to her for those reasons.
> 
> Go travel. Just go see them. Someone mentioned knowing spanish made you the lady-slayer south of the US border. Yes, indeed I spent a lot of years in South America mostly. But there were some cultural affectations I didn't like about them.
> 
> Spanish helps with Visayan because the Spanish ruled for almost four centuries so much of the Visayan vocabulary is Spanish. So... if you can speak Spanish, the southern Philippines is going to be an easy adjustment linguistically for you. A little international dating tip, there.
> 
> Nahigugma Ko Nimo Asawa Ko.


My cautions, such as they are, is to quell unreasonable expectations when seeking overseas love.

My company sent about 15 men to South America. Many of them were married. There were 5 divorces that occurred as a result of...unreasonable expectations. Two of the men tried with good hearts and intentions to marry overseas. Neither succeeded. I don't put the failures totally on the women. Too often, men marry 'bar girls' and expect them to want to act like they did as 20 something desperately poor girls forever.

So yes, GO to the place. Have respect for the culture. Learn the language. Find someone who you actually click with, instead of someone vaguely comely with a working vagina.

But this isn't what a lot of the customers of such services are looking for. They want to treat the acquisition of their bride with the same time and preparation as they do the selection of a Happy Meal.

And even WITH living someplace and being able to spend some time getting to know the girl (such as my two co-workers), success isn't assured.

I am happy to hear it is working out for you, Wiseforit. And it seems to also be working for Bill and myself. 

But we all put in our blood sweat and tears to make it so. I just want the OP to know that it isn't particularly pain free road he is selecting.


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## Wiserforit

JCD said:


> But this isn't what a lot of the customers of such services are looking for. They want to treat the acquisition of their bride with the same time and preparation as they do the selection of a Happy Meal.


Oh my goodness, such negative stereotyping. 

Right now, on VisaJourney - Your US Immigration Community there are over 12,000 members immigrating someone from the Philippines alone. I would say pretty confidently that none of them are looking at this as a happy meal. 

The majority, by far, are people who met online. But immigration is a long, expensive road to take over a happy meal. And the risks are also big with the sponsor signing his agreement to support them for ten years, _even if they get divorced_.

The law is you have to reimburse the state for any means-tested benefits they get if you get divorced. That's right. You don't have to promise that for a domestic wife. So you better be sure.


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## Woodchuck

Ron White was on stage and mentioned there were 2,000 Marines in the audience...A female voice shouted..."And they're all lousy lays"...To which White responded........

That at times, some introspection might be needed...I'm just sayin....




cold fact

the woodchuck


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## JCD

Wiserforit said:


> Oh my goodness, such negative stereotyping.
> 
> Right now, on VisaJourney - Your US Immigration Community there are over 12,000 members immigrating someone from the Philippines alone. I would say pretty confidently that none of them are looking at this as a happy meal.
> 
> The majority, by far, are people who met online. But immigration is a long, expensive road to take over a happy meal. And the risks are also big with the sponsor signing his agreement to support them for ten years, _even if they get divorced_.
> 
> The law is you have to reimburse the state for any means-tested benefits they get if you get divorced. That's right. You don't have to promise that for a domestic wife. So you better be sure.


Excuse me. That is the *STATE* forcing whomever to be very introspective about the person who they are immigrating inside the U.S., not the druthers of the person trying to get their sweetie in the country.

That's like saying that a person who joins the military is a dedicated fitness buff because once he joins, he does so many exercises. Sure...

And for our (you and mine) personal success stories, I have about half a dozen PERSONAL (i.e. people I know closely) anecdotes which were decidedly negative.

What is your dog in this hunt that you are trying to feed this guy moonbeams and lollipops about foreign dating? Yeah, sometimes it works...frequently it doesn't.

How is this negative stereotyping?


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## Wiserforit

JCD said:


> Excuse me. That is the *STATE* forcing whomever to be very introspective about the person who they are immigrating inside the U.S., not the druthers of the person trying to get their sweetie in the country.


So? Forcing people to support an ex-wife after divorce is why you are wrong about what kind of person typically goes all the way through immigration. That rule is too imposing for the very people you are talking about. 




> And for our (you and mine) personal success stories, I have about half a dozen PERSONAL (i.e. people I know closely) anecdotes which were decidedly negative.


So? All marriage is risk. Nobody says it is a 100% success rate. It is much better than domestic marriages though.

I posted a survey in the Aspberger guy's thread. There were thousands of marriages in the survey, and the rate was much lower than domestic marriages. 



> What is your dog in this hunt that you are trying to feed this guy moonbeams and lollipops about foreign dating? Yeah, sometimes it works...frequently it doesn't.
> 
> How is this negative stereotyping?


Moonbeams and lollipops? Silly manipulative rhetoric isn't an argument.


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