# I found his mags again..help



## rainydayismusic

This is the 6th time in 4 years I found his stash in his truck since I found out my husband is addicted to porn...he told me it wasn't his thing before we got married, but that was a lie because when I first found it, AFTER we were married, he admitted he had this since he was 12. So now here we are again and there were numerous vulger and graphic mags AND DVD's...so my question..Where is the DVD player? It's not at home because we have children and that's why it's in his truck and I guess he does this during work hours...I just want to know where and how he does this...And please bypass the fact that I am DEVASTATED, again


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## Toffer

You need to set clear boundaries

The first and most important is that he get counseling for his addiction to porn.

The second is that he be honest with you and stop the lying

On a positive note, at least he's not keeping the stuff in the house!


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## BeachGuy

What makes you think he's "addicted" to porn? I think you'd be very surprised at just how many men look at it from time to time. I remember finding mags under my dad's bed when I was a teenager and I was completely blown away. But then I laughed.


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## Mistys dad

6 times.

He has made his decision.

If you have been DEVASTATED 6 times, then you need to make your decision.


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## FormerNiceGuy

rainydayismusic said:


> I am DEVASTATED, again


Although it is difficult, you need to try and take three steps back.

1. Your husband appears to have a porn addiction and may need help.

2. Your husband is living a "secret life" and you feel justifiably betrayed.

3. Keep the morality (I assume you have a problem because you called the porn "vulgAr (SP)") out of this, at least for the time being.

Your speech and stay with me here:

"Honey, I found your porn stash again and we have a problem. I will not be married to a man who is sneaking around behind my back. If you think your porn habit is OK, then bring it out into the light of day. We need to be careful not to expose the children, but if you think masturbating to porn daily or more is a fine activity, then bring it out into the light of day." Then shut up.

If husband sheepishly smiles and says OK (meaning shining the light of day on his activities), then I don't think you have much of a right to say more. You could divorce him because you find it morally repugnant, but otherwise, there is not much to complain about. Maybe you join him.

More likely, he is embarrassed by this activity and will react with shame. I would not shame him more, just insist that he speak to therapist about his compulsion.

Send him here as well: Gary Wilson TedX Talk on Porn

By the way, how is your sex life?


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## Hopefull363

As Beach guy asked why do you think he's addicted to porn? How has this affected your sex life? Do you have an active sex life where you are both satisfied?

My husband looks at porn occasionally. I don't mind. He just can't do it on the computers at home. Those sites cause all types of viruses and I don't want my 2 children exposed to it. He does it on his phone. Sometimes we even watch an HBO late night together. Just spices things up.

Now I realize everybody has different views on this. That's why I'm asking how you think it's affected your sex life.


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## thunderstruck

rainydayismusic said:


> ... AND DVD's...so my question..*Where is the DVD player?* It's not at home because we have children and that's why it's in his truck and I guess he does this during work hours...I just want to know where and how he does this...(


Portable DVD player that plugs into his truck. Maybe the player was at his work place when you went through the stash. 

No, I don't know this from experience.  We have a portable player for the kids for vacation drives, so it's the first thing I thought of.


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## Texas Lady

It is only porn and he is probably embarrassed and, based on your reaction, he doesn't want to hurt you. I would love to understand what bothers you about him watching porn. Now, if he chooses porn over having sex with you, now that is a problem!


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## rainydayismusic

How could anyone bring this out into the light of day when there ARE children and they would not eventually be exposed to it? And not by just anyone, but their FATHER. I have five, still innocent children, that I refuse to let be exposed to this for as long as I can. The fact that the man I chose to marry and have children with LIED to me BEFORE we got married is NOT my fault. He lied and hid it well KNOWING that I DO find it morally reprehensible. The 'porn', and his use of it would be the reason for the damage to our marriage, not because I don't accept something I've ALWAYS been against. I would have no problem leaving him to let him have his 'stuff' all to himself, but with the children, I cannot bear to tear their world in two. I admit it is a balancing act staying married and keeping the kids safe. I have been supportive in helping him to overcome this and offered to go to counseling with him (or he can go alone) but he INSISTS it 's no problem and he can stop anytime...and then, he obviously doesn't. 
As for the sex...the only complaint would be he is usually too tired and can go weeks without it because, well, let's face it, he has 'Other Options'...So good luck to anyone trying to convince me this is 'Normal'. It would be like trying to convince me there isn't a God. BTW, if this was a casual peak at women's naked body's because they are beautiful, then this would be very different, but the stuff I found WAS VULGAR and demeaning to me as a woman. How can he look at me or our daughter's in a respectable way after indulging in watching group sex and women having sex with machines? And getting off on it too? I also found some kind of device that has what looks like a small probe and a long wire attached to some sort of battery powered thing with a button on it..no idea what that is. Why is this better than being with me? His always faithful, supportive, loving wife..
I'm just so sad and don't know what to do and I guess I asked the original question about the where and how because I can't deal with this anymore...


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## In_The_Wind

Does he have a laptop with a DVD player
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CallaLily

I believe in giving people second chances, but not a 3rd 4th, 5th and 6th chance. This is no longer about his porn issue, this is about why you keep staying and allowing him all these "chances".


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## Hopefull363

Nobody was trying to convince you this was normal. You were asked if it's affecting your sex life. From you answer above IT IS. Everybody is different and what's normal for some may not be normal for others. If it's him that's always turning down sex then counseling is needed because he is getting his fulfillment elsewhere. If you are always turning down sex or don't initiate at all then there's your answer to the porn.

Counseling for either scenario would probably help.


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## Caribbean Man

Something is missing.
This is obviously his problem, if you think he is addicted porn.
But the question is why?
My suspicion is that if he was not addicted to porn it might have been something else taking the place of the intimacy you desire.
Why does he prefer to masturbate to a digital fantasy when he ha the real thing at home waiting for him with loving arms and a warm smile?<---[Rhetorical Question ]

If he's just addicted to porn that can be easily fixed.
If he's addicted to sex,then big problem!

In my opinion ,if you stop making a fuss over the mags etc , and sit and reason in a non judgemental way, maybe he will come around. That is of course,if you have not already done that!


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## in my tree

"he INSISTS it 's no problem and he can stop anytime..." - you need to tell him that it is a problem especially since he is turning down sex with his own wife. I really don't have more advice than to enforce what others have said about counseling. If he won't go then you will need to think about what it is you want because I doubt seriously that this is something that he will willingly stop since he hasn't done so after being confronted 6 other times. Good luck to you!


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## Chris Taylor

rainydayismusic said:


> How could anyone bring this out into the light of day when there ARE children and they would not eventually be exposed to it? And not by just anyone, but their FATHER. I have five, still innocent children, that I refuse to let be exposed to this for as long as I can. The fact that the man I chose to marry and have children with LIED to me BEFORE we got married is NOT my fault. He lied and hid it well KNOWING that I DO find it morally reprehensible. The 'porn', and his use of it would be the reason for the damage to our marriage, not because I don't accept something I've ALWAYS been against. I would have no problem leaving him to let him have his 'stuff' all to himself, but with the children, I cannot bear to tear their world in two. I admit it is a balancing act staying married and keeping the kids safe. I have been supportive in helping him to overcome this and offered to go to counseling with him (or he can go alone) but he INSISTS it 's no problem and he can stop anytime...and then, he obviously doesn't.
> As for the sex...the only complaint would be he is usually too tired and can go weeks without it because, well, let's face it, he has 'Other Options'...So good luck to anyone trying to convince me this is 'Normal'. It would be like trying to convince me there isn't a God. BTW, if this was a casual peak at women's naked body's because they are beautiful, then this would be very different, but the stuff I found WAS VULGAR and demeaning to me as a woman. How can he look at me or our daughter's in a respectable way after indulging in watching group sex and women having sex with machines? And getting off on it too? I also found some kind of device that has what looks like a small probe and a long wire attached to some sort of battery powered thing with a button on it..no idea what that is. Why is this better than being with me? His always faithful, supportive, loving wife..
> I'm just so sad and don't know what to do and I guess I asked the original question about the where and how because I can't deal with this anymore...


WOW, just WOW.

Is he doing this in front of the kids? How are you taking the leap from him watching porn to the total and absolute corruption of your five children?

Let's take a step back for a minute. Most every guy watches porn. Personally, I'm not proud of it and I don't expose my wife to it (although she has watched on occasion). I never exposed my kids to it.

You don't like it and the fact that your husband lied to you about it IS an issue. But if he said it "wasn't his thing", that doesn't mean he doesn't watch it. Ice cream "isn't my thing" but I'll eat it every now and then.

The bigger question is why is your husband turning to porn. Obviously if you have five kids there was some sexual excitement in your marriage (at least five times  ), what's it like now?


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## Paulination

rainydayismusic said:


> How could anyone bring this out into the light of day when there ARE children and they would not eventually be exposed to it? And not by just anyone, but their FATHER. I have five, still innocent children, that I refuse to let be exposed to this for as long as I can.


With all due respect I think you are being way melodramatic here. There are all sorts of ways of excercising descretion so the kids aren't exposed to it. I think you are using the kids to bolster your argument which isn't necessary. Your moral objection to porn is your right. His moral acceptance to porn is his right.

The problem here is that you both are on opposite sides of the issue and instead of working with you on this he finds it easier to hide it. If it has been 6 times, he will not stop. He doesn't feel he should have to because he doesn't see it as a problem. He sees your attitude about it as the problem. If you won't leave him you'll have to just accept it and let him have his little "truck" time and ignore it.

The other problem is it seems to affect your sex life. This is the part I don't get. I check out porn from time to time and I will tell you, the more sex I have, the less I look. I would never replace actual sex with porn. 

You have some thinking to do. Good luck.


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## trey69

CallaLily said:


> I believe in giving people second chances, but not a 3rd 4th, 5th and 6th chance. This is no longer about his porn issue, this is about why you keep staying and allowing him all these "chances".


This! :iagree:


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## Jimena

Was your sex life always so sparse? Would you consider the sex life you've had to be varied? I mean, would your husband as you to do different things but you declined? I don't think it's right for him to not communicate to you his desires, but have you also made him comfortable to express himself to you? If he knew that you hated porn for
The get go, he probably lied just to make you happy and for you not to view him negatively. It sounds like there hasn't been a lot of compromise. This is something that could be helped w counseling.

IMO, porn is entertainment. I see it just as shocking and in its own way creating a physical respone as horror films.

Also, if you think your children will "have their wold torn in two" by coming across naked people doing weird things to each other, that means they don't have any emotional coping skills.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Drover

1) Lighten up, lady. It's porn. Unless it's kiddy porn you should really just lighten up.

2) Most men look at porn, some more than others. It's a pretty normal, natural thing.

3) If he's going to look at it, he shouldn't lie to you about it. You need to make it clear that lying is not acceptable. 

4) Make it clear that masturbating to porn and then saying he's too tired to have sex with you is unacceptable.

You need to set some realistic boundaries, get agreement from him that they're acceptable, and then hold him to them.


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## rainydayismusic

Thank you for all opinions..Side note: When I spoke of tearing their world in two, I was speaking of a divorce, not the porn. 
I am not being 'melodramatic' about the children being exposed to it either, because it was HIS step-father that had it and at 12 he 'stumbled upon it'. I have an 11 year old son. I already know that it will present itself to most everyone, my kids included, I just have to work harder now that it's around my home. To all those men that keep saying, 'Lighten up, We all watch porn', did any of you get that maybe there is a difference between 'watching and getting off to women having sex with machines' and looking at the female body? But Oh, maybe that's too boring for men nowadays. 

For those who asked, sex is infrequent, and not because I don't take care of myself or am not always willing. But, physically it hurts too because he has to slam me to climax. (Ugh, I hate saying that even on a keyboard)
MY problem summed up: He lied before marriage on something he knew I didn't like, (had kids with me too) AND the extremely unnatural content he seems to enjoy. I am also sorry to those that feel I've put up with this too long and given too many chances, my ONLY reason is for the children to continue living in an intact home (unfortunately with porn around) Otherwise, I would have ZERO problem leaving him to move on to some other chick that digs that sorta thing.


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## Paulination

rainydayismusic said:


> Thank you for all opinions


Thankful for what? It seems like you just rejected all of the advice given.


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## rainydayismusic

I appreciate all thoughts and posts. Why do I have to agree? This is a very sensitive and painful subject for me, and my original question was the 'where and how'. Not that it even matters. Call it a diversion from all the REAL probs, who cares. I am thinking and processing all info and addressing his problems and my own. 
I keep going back to that stupid lie...I really despise him for that and now the lies continue. Coward and Jerk.
Sorry. Small rant


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## Texas Lady

Ok so let's be real here, what are the chances he will stop? Does he even want to stop? I doubt it. So you either accept it or move on. You have infrequent sex, no matter the reason, he needs to take care of his business. You disagree with the type of porn and that really isn't for you to decide. You are stuck on this "lie" but it isn't going to change. Time to move on and make a decision.


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## Hopefull363

Why is counseling out? This seems like something that can be worked on. If you just give in without working on it with him in a way that's conducive to both of you you'll just build up resentment. That will make things even worse.

Most men do lie about porn because they are embarrassed. Even knowing that I didn't have a problem with it as long as it wasn't on the home computers and it didn't take away from our sex life, it took my husband 14 years to admit it.

We've had sex everyday for the last 6 days with both of us having orgasms and I woke up to my husband doing something on his phone at 5 in the morning. I asked him what he was doing? For the first time in our 14 year marriage he said looking at porn. we just had sex before bed and at 5AM I was tired so I said ok and went back to sleep. I was happy he trusted me enough to tell the truth and thankful he let me sleep. 

Please go to counseling. This can be worked out.


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## Goldmember357

FormerNiceGuy said:


> Although it is difficult, you need to try and take three steps back.
> 
> 1. Your husband appears to have a porn addiction and may need help.
> 
> 2. Your husband is living a "secret life" and you feel justifiably betrayed.
> 
> 3. Keep the morality (I assume you have a problem because you called the porn "vulgAr (SP)") out of this, at least for the time being.
> 
> Your speech and stay with me here:
> 
> "Honey, I found your porn stash again and we have a problem. I will not be married to a man who is sneaking around behind my back. If you think your porn habit is OK, then bring it out into the light of day. We need to be careful not to expose the children, but if you think masturbating to porn daily or more is a fine activity, then bring it out into the light of day." Then shut up.
> 
> If husband sheepishly smiles and says OK (meaning shining the light of day on his activities), then I don't think you have much of a right to say more. You could divorce him because you find it morally repugnant, but otherwise, there is not much to complain about. Maybe you join him.
> 
> More likely, he is embarrassed by this activity and will react with shame. I would not shame him more, just insist that he speak to therapist about his compulsion.
> 
> Send him here as well: Gary Wilson TedX Talk on Porn
> 
> By the way, how is your sex life?


:iagree:


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## seeking sanity

I just read this article today. Not sure if it's applicable, but this is the counter point:

Husbands, Wives, and Porn

I'm also with one of the posters, this seems very melodramatic and you come off as enjoying the moral high ground.


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## AFEH

I actually think you are very right to feel the way you do. With your H using porn since the age of 12 he will most certainly be addicted. Not only that, but it will also more than likely be the cause of him not being able to have a normal sex life with you, his wife. This latter is for example a massive problem with men in their twenties. They simply cannot get an erection with a “real” woman. As a man of my age this simply did not exist, it was not a problem so I enjoyed probably the healthiest sex life possible with my wife.

Porn use by those as young as twelve is also a very big problem and a problem that’s getting worse. To the extent that there are Governments considering putting the onus on the porn providers and enablers to prevent children using it as well as the parents. That is, Governments are considering legislating that ISPs block porn unless specifically asked for by an adult. There are cases now where gangs of boys as young as 12 and 13 raping little girls. This is a massive problem and I think you are doing your duty as a mother to shield your children from it all and as such you should be applauded, I certainly do. I feel for those children who don't have mothers such as you to protect them.

I also feel for you in that your husband isn’t shoulder to shoulder with you on this. It must be similar to having an alcoholic as a husband and worrying that your children will start drinking and become one as well.

On top of all that you have the betrayal of your husband's lies and deceits to deal with as well which is a whole big thing in and of itself. Deceit about the use of porn is one thing, lying about it is a massive betrayal.



But what can you do? Boundaries are perhaps the way ahead, read up on boundaries in marriage. But goodness knows what you do if you assert some, you probably already have, and he just ignores and breaks them.

He wont change unless he sees he has a problem. So maybe educate him. Find out all you can about how porn affects young children and sex in marriage, print it off and give it to him to read. Find out about support groups on the subject, it’s such a big problem and getting bigger I’m sure support groups are springing up to provide help for mothers and wives.

Other drivers for change are pain, fear of loss and fear of failure. If for example you demonstrate to him what it means to lose his family that may cause him pain enough to change his ways. Maybe tell him you want a six month separation to sort things out and you’ll review how you go forward in six months time. Let him live his life without constant access to you and the children and see if that causes him enough pain and fear of loss to initiate change.


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## Texas Lady

AFEH said:


> I actually think you are very right to feel the way you do. With your H using porn since the age of 12 he will most certainly be addicted. Not only that, but it will also more than likely be the cause of him not being able to have a normal sex life with you, his wife. This latter is for example a massive problem with men in their twenties. They simply cannot get an erection with a “real” woman. As a man of my age this simply did not exist, it was not a problem so I enjoyed probably the healthiest sex life possible with my wife.
> 
> Porn use by those as young as twelve is also a very big problem and a problem that’s getting worse. To the extent that there are Governments considering putting the onus on the porn providers and enablers to prevent children using it as well as the parents. That is, Governments are considering legislating that ISPs block porn unless specifically asked for by an adult. There are cases now where gangs of boys as young as 12 and 13 raping little girls. This is a massive problem and I think you are doing your duty as a mother to shield your children from it all and as such you should be applauded, I certainly do. I feel for those children who don't have mothers such as you to protect them.
> 
> I also feel for you in that your husband isn’t shoulder to shoulder with you on this. It must be similar to having an alcoholic as a husband and worrying that your children will start drinking and become one as well.
> 
> On top of all that you have the betrayal of your husband's lies and deceits to deal with as well which is a whole big thing in and of itself. Deceit about the use of porn is one thing, lying about it is a massive betrayal.
> 
> 
> 
> But what can you do? Boundaries are perhaps the way ahead, read up on boundaries in marriage. But goodness knows what you do if you assert some, you probably already have, and he just ignores and breaks them.
> 
> He wont change unless he sees he has a problem. So maybe educate him. Find out all you can about how porn affects young children and sex in marriage, print it off and give it to him to read. Find out about support groups on the subject, it’s such a big problem and getting bigger I’m sure support groups are springing up to provide help for mothers and wives.
> 
> Other drivers for change are pain, fear of loss and fear of failure. If for example you demonstrate to him what it means to lose his family that may cause him pain enough to change his ways. Maybe tell him you want a six month separation to sort things out and you’ll review how you go forward in six months time. Let him live his life without constant access to you and the children and see if that causes him enough pain and fear of loss to initiate change.


I find that response a bit extreme! Keeping the children away? Protecting them from what? She never said he had such a porn issue that it was interfering with their kids. They don't have sex a lot because of her not him. I think it would be a mistake separating the family like that over this. Go to counseling before you do anything that drastic. I get you are pissed at him but don't involve your kids in this. Yes, they shouldn't find any of the porn, just like they shouldn't walk in on you two having sex. I'm sure you make that a private thing so this should be the same.


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## SoWhat

Wild guess: if you divorce this man, the next man you date will look at porn too. And the one after that. And after that. 

Not defending it in this case - as it may be affecting your sex life - just letting you know a little terrible secret about men in general. The vast, vast majority masturbate. The overwhelming majority of those that masturbate have a visual aid with them. 


Good luck! I mean that sincerely.


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## FormerNiceGuy

rainydayismusic said:


> He lied before marriage on something he knew I didn't like, (had kids with me too) AND the extremely unnatural content he seems to enjoy. I am also sorry to those that feel I've put up with this too long and given too many chances, my ONLY reason is for the children to continue living in an intact home (unfortunately with porn around) Otherwise, I would have ZERO problem leaving him to move on to some other chick that digs that sorta thing.


Rainy - I think you need to carefully consider what you hold to be "self-evident" truths.

Look at all of your righteous indignation.

Righteous indignation is province of martyrs.

Martyrs, by definition, die for their cause.

If you are prepared to divorce your husband (the figurative "death" here), then recognize that you are not a victim and can do so if you wish. Take action.

I understand that divorce is a massive decision. Remember, though, that you can make it from two mental states: one is the martyr and it will be excruciating because you will paint yourself as the "victim" who was misled into marriage and having children with a morally repulsive man. You appear to be on this road.

The other mental space would be a conclusion that your husband is broken and can't be fixed. That is a position of power and you don't need to make anybody else bad in order to act from there. You will still mourn, but you married a sick guy, it is tragic, and you need to move forward to take good care of yourself and exercise your role as a parent.

If you want to try to fix the marriage, then:

1. Recognize that, chicken or the egg, your husband's porn problem reflects the state of your marriage.....and before you start blaming him.....

2. You are 50% of the marriage.

3. You can't control your husband and should quit trying.

4. You need to fix your 50%. 

What is your 50%?

I don't know, although you have not shown yourself to be very reasonable in this post. Is everything in your world so cut and dry? 

When you get mad at people on a forum for their suggestions, after you have asked for help, your anger is a sign that you are being "triggered". You don't have to respond to people whose advice you consider idiotic - but if you get a surge of adrenaline when you read a response, you will grow from trying to understand why.

How do you do behind the wheel? Yell at other drivers or shrug off their recklessness? That is a trigger for many people.

I recognize this is very personal and there is a great deal at stake for you, but you will make poor decisions if you are acting from a triggered state.

5. If he doesn't step up, then you may have harder choices to make.

6. I respect the concern about porn and exposing your children, but think it is overblown. If you let your kids watch TV, then you are exposing them to a highly sexualized culture already. You might be surprised at what your 12 year old already knows. 

This is not to imply that I am not vigilant to protect my children from graphic sexual images at similar ages. I am more concerned, however, about helping them build good self-esteem and teaching them about addictions with the hope that when they do get exposed, because that is a fact of life in modern society, they won't become addicted.

For what its worth, I don't think porn is good for people. It is not a moral issue for me. All men don't watch porn.

My sincere best advice is to go back to my speech and practice it 100 times in front of the mirror. It must be delivered sincerely and without anger or cynicism.

Once you have your "act" together, give the speech to your husband and report back the results.


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## Caribbean Man

SoWhat said:


> Wild guess: if you divorce this man, the next man you date will look at porn too. And the one after that. And after that.
> 
> Not defending it in this case - as it may be affecting your sex life - just letting you know a little terrible secret about men in general. *The vast, vast majority masturbate. The overwhelming majority of those that masturbate have a visual aid with them.*
> 
> 
> Good luck! I mean that sincerely.



:iagree:

My point exactly.
The porn is the symptom of a deeper problem with him. He's been at it since he was a boy. It is a mental crutch for him.

The problem with her is that she doesn't understand and is disgusted with his use of porn.
This can be worked out with a different approach.


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## Chris Taylor

I think most of us guys found our father's/brother's/cousin's porn stash at one time or another and survived the experience.

You can't ban porn and have infrequent sex. I suppose you can but where does that leave him? Looking for another sex partner other than you? Right now his sex partner is his right hand and he uses porn to help.

And whether it's straight porn, girl-on-girl, girls on machines, whatever... it helps him fill his sexual needs.

As I said before, the lies are a problem in the marriage but so isn't the rigidity of your stance. I'll say it... you FORCED him to lie about how he met his own sexual needs. If you draw the line here, I don't think the marriage has a chance.


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## Drover

By the way it has also been shown that withholding sex affects a man's sexual fantasies. Withholding sex tends to lead a man to angrier types of fantasies. I'm guessing that both the type of porn he looks at and the type of sex you get are at least partially driven by the way you treat him and the amount of frustration he feels.

But you know the most interesting thing about this whole thread is where you chose to post it? Did you think the Men's Clubhouse would rally to your point of view?


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## rainydayismusic

Thank you AFEH. I feel you understand the most. I consider all of your suggestions. Maybe the short term separation. And SoWhat is almost right about the next guy using porn, most do, but there are still a few men who don't. Although, at this time I'm not looking to replace my husband with another version. 
FormerNiceGuy- You have given me some insight into the 'Victim' and 'Power' positions. Interesting. My 50% in this marriage is not forgotten either. I take responsibility for what I do, or neglect to do, and I am working on myself always because I want to do better and know that I can always improve. I read books and am constantly researching all things, I pray, and even see a counselor. 
You are right about the 'triggers' too. No, I never yell at other driver's because that is not a trigger for me, but I do have emotional trigger's, and I know I don't have to react to posts from people who don't agree with me, so thank you for the reminder. 
I know I cannot force anyone to change, but had hoped that my husband would at least TRY. 
For those who were wondering, my husband and I did talk about all of this last nite, and he admitted it has been a 'Problem' (his word) from the beginning and all he ever had to teach him about sex was porn. That hurt me for him when he said that. Is this the future sex education for generations because parents don't care anymore and they all consider it normal just like my husbands mother did and still does. 
He doesn't like this world he's in and wants to have a normal sex life with me, but can't see a way out of this because it is all too familiar and a deep part of his life. So for now he is torn between the two and probably needs to think about whether or not he will act and get help.
In the meantime, I'll be working on me


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## AFEH

I was a teenager in the 60s. Internet, what’s that then? There were top shelf magazines in the newsagents, but relative to what’s available these days they were seriously tame. But you know what? They still produced the same effect. There’s been a massive desensitising to the whole thing with the knock on effect of desensitising men. That’s why your husband is looking at seriously weird stuff by the sounds of it and why men have so many ED problems with their wives.

The addictive nature of porn is I believe as much the same as a drug addiction. The more the drug is used, the more desensitised the user becomes, the more of the drug they need to get a high and so it goes on and on.

It’s seriously good that your H has recognised his problem. Seriously good. Take a look at â€œHow I Recovered from Porn-related Erectile Dysfunctionâ€� | Psychology Today and search “porn ed” for further articles.

I stopped smoking just about 18 months ago after 50 years of it. I went “cold turkey” more or less. It’s all about impulse control. Get the impulse for a cigarette, say no to the impulse and “this too soon shall pass”. I broke the back of the habit that way within about two months and these days I never even think of smoking. Every time he gets the impulse all he does is say no. Keep saying no and he breaks the habit.


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## 40isthenew20

What's so bad about porn? The only time a spouse should be concerned is if the other's stash is kiddie or gay. If a husband has a few Hustler mags or a FFM DVD, big deal. He's just jerkin' it because he's horny and either:

A - doesn't want to bother you
B - get turned down for sex - again

Besides, magazines and DVDs are kind of obsolete now with all of the free porn sites online. The Internet has become a horny guy's dream come true.


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## Grayson

AFEH said:


> I was a teenager in the 60s. Internet, what’s that then? There were top shelf magazines in the newsagents, but relative to what’s available these days they were seriously tame. But you know what? They still produced the same effect. There’s been a massive desensitising to the whole thing with the knock on effect of desensitising men. That’s why your husband is looking at seriously weird stuff by the sounds of it and why men have so many ED problems with their wives.
> 
> The addictive nature of porn is I believe as much the same as a drug addiction. The more the drug is used, the more desensitised the user becomes, the more of the drug they need to get a high and so it goes on and on.
> 
> It’s seriously good that your H has recognised his problem. Seriously good. Take a look at â€œHow I Recovered from Porn-related Erectile Dysfunctionâ€� | Psychology Today and search “porn ed” for further articles.
> 
> I stopped smoking just about 18 months ago after 50 years of it. I went “cold turkey” more or less. It’s all about impulse control. Get the impulse for a cigarette, say no to the impulse and “this too soon shall pass”. I broke the back of the habit that way within about two months and these days I never even think of smoking. Every time he gets the impulse all he does is say no. Keep saying no and he breaks the habit.


I agree with a great deal of your underlying idea, AFEH, but I would disagree that porn itself is addictive in nature. What someone who misuses porn becomes addicted to is the internal chemical "high" that they get from the satisfaction of looking at - and usually masturbating to - porn. This is distinct from substances such as drugs, including alcohol and nicotine, which introduce their own chemical agents into the user's system. While the addiction to these substances may initially spring from the same chemical "high," it is being assisted, facilitated and reinforced by an outside chemical source introduced, while porn, sex, gambling, etc "addictions" are entirely self-produced. While the internal chemical reaction is much the same, the trigger is psychological rather than pharmaceutical.

Ultimately, I believe that, like any other form of entertainment, there is no inherent "badness" in enjoying porn. When it starts negatively impacting one's life and/or relationships, though, then there's definitely a problem. But then, I say the same thing about the football fan who ignores family for hours on end every Sunday to obsessively watch grown millionaires pound one another into paste in a kids' game.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Texas Lady

Unhappy2011 said:


> Ahh the joys of the religious induced shame associated with sex.


Amen to that lol


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## rainydayismusic

There is nothing shameful about sex between a husband and wife. (We are on a website talking about 'Marriage' right?) So this has nothing to do with religion. Would you say the same thing about people having sex with animals? Is it religious induced shame to not agree with that too? Or do you only agree with what is 'Socially Acceptable'?


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## wolfloverb

My best friend of 30 years is the same way. He has been married for 18 years and he talks constantly on how she won't satisfy him in new ways, so he resorts to seeing it on the computer instead of outside the marriage. So though wrong in a non hurting kind of way, yet needing something more on a sexual level, she should try to advance their intimate moments. Possibly turning a unknowing situation into a new avenue of marriage....Hmmmm


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## sisters359

I think most of the readers missed the point where she said HE made excuses for not having sex with her, and he performed in a way that was outright painful for her. Those are pretty important details.

OP, I'm glad he was able to admit to you that he has a problem. Please help him get help. In the meantime, don't make any decisions. 

I understand your frustration with the way a lot of porn represents women. Just watching other people have sex on video does not seem to "do it" for a lot of people--thus enters violence, machines, animals, whatever. I agree that it is not normal or harmless to take pleasure in watching women be abused, victimized, humiliated, or otherwise demeaned, as is the suggestion that women would enjoy sex like this. 

But at least he is willing to admit he has a problem! That is a huge step.


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## J.R.Jefferis

BeachGuy said:


> What makes you think he's "addicted" to porn? I think you'd be very surprised at just how many men look at it from time to time. I remember finding mags under my dad's bed when I was a teenager and I was completely blown away. But then I laughed.


Agreed...just because a man owns porn doesn't mean he is addicted to it. An addiction would have other signs that would be present in your relationship such as no interest in sex with you etc. That said, there is still some cause for concern and I think this calls for some open communication with him.

JR


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## SunnyT

*For those who asked, sex is infrequent, and not because I don't take care of myself or am not always willing. But, physically it hurts too because he has to slam me to climax.*

This is all OP said about sex. So the next question is... if you are always willing, why is sex infrequent? Is he turning YOU down when you initiate? 

I think it's all a bit melodramatic too. But, maybe that's just how she is. So be it. I think that she is making it all out to be ONLY H's problem.... when she is part of the problem. Which I would think could be worked out with counseling for both. 

I also think... take H's words about his "problem" with a grain of salt. For two reasons.... one, because he promised 6 times already to quit because it bothered you but then didn't. And two, since he's been "caught" at it again he may say whatever you want to hear so you won't be AS mad.


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## Texas Lady

Unhappy2011 said:


> A) How did this enter the discussion?
> 
> B) and despite how many women and feminists have claimed this, the truth be told that many other wise normal women secretly desire to be submissive and dominated in bed.
> 
> No wonder there are so many confused men. Those "nice guys" who are so boring for not just taking control and ravishing her like she really wants because they have been conditioned to think doing so is degrading to a woman.


So very true! Being dominated in the bedroom is so hot, yet a lot of people make you feel wrong about it. Now we have that 50 shades of grey book and suddenly, it might be ok.


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## rainydayismusic

There is no '50 shades of gray' in our marriage. My husband knows that I like being submissive and I like to initiate too. I've tried new things with him, talked sexy to him, dressed sexy. This is not enough for him. Why? Some of you think that part of this is my fault. Does being submissive, then getting physically hurt in the process mean that there is something wrong with me? Does being assertive and then getting turned down mean there is something wrong with me? Those woman in the porno movies are payed to be abused. Then it all comes home and visits itself upon me in my own bed.


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## costa200

> I actually think you are very right to feel the way you do. With your H using porn since the age of 12 he will most certainly be addicted. Not only that, but it will also more than likely be the cause of him not being able to have a normal sex life with you, his wife. This latter is for example a massive problem with men in their twenties. They simply cannot get an erection with a “real” woman.


Was this post for real? :lol:

So, guy seeing porn since 12 is an addict, can't have sex with his wife and can't get it up with a real woman... :rofl:

Are you aware that you're basically saying an entire generation has this problem? How is a guy supposed to take anything you say after this as serious?



> There are cases now where gangs of boys as young as 12 and 13 raping little girls.


And this didn't happen before porn? Again, are you serious? Are you aware that the average european nobleman would, by that age, be raping the "help" and be married by 14? Did teen rapists in Africa get exposed to an excess of porn?



> Find out all you can about how porn affects young children and sex in marriage,


You mean the internet hogwash you get from religious sites made by pastors who are actually seeing porn in the intervals of updates to their sites?

I'm actually a teacher. I work with teens everyday. Anyone who thinks that they can "protect them" from porn is deluded. This woman's child is 11. I'm willing to bet everything you want that he has already seen porn in one shape or the other at that age.

And you know what? This isn't new. It has always happened ever since photographic material became easy to get. It never killed anyone and humans still breed like rabbits. 

The real problem is that this couple have troubles in the bedroom. And this husband is expected to:

1- take the sex he can get limited to his wife wishes
2- Don't cheat
3- Don't masturbate

Well... We could also put the question of why is he still married then? There are people here trying to paint him as some sort of perv, even dangerous for his own kids (kids will certainly go insane and become rapists if they find a magazine with boobs on them...). Well, imagine his side of the story. He isn't getting laid, he apparently doesn't cheat and his wife continues to bust his chops about magazines. I'm betting that if this guy came here and expose the situation on his side he would get half the people in here telling him that if sex is that important he should equate a divorce. 

Being 100% honest here, if i am helping to clear this up. Reading the OP's posts she comes off as controlling, judgmental and prudish (maybe she is not but that's what i'm getting).


I know i could never be with a woman like this. This guy actually endures it everyday. Congrats to him. People advising this woman to D him may actually be doing a service to BOTH of them.


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## SunnyT

*There is no '50 shades of gray' in our marriage. My husband knows that I like being submissive and I like to initiate too. I've tried new things with him, talked sexy to him, dressed sexy. This is not enough for him. Why? Some of you think that part of this is my fault. Does being submissive, then getting physically hurt in the process mean that there is something wrong with me? Does being assertive and then getting turned down mean there is something wrong with me? Those woman in the porno movies are payed to be abused. Then it all comes home and visits itself upon me in my own bed. *

You are very vague in your answers. It's hard to get a clear picture of the "problem". 

1. Your H looks at porn, you hate it, so he should not look at it.

2. Your children COULD be affected....altho he doesn't bring it in the house, so how would they be affected anyway?

3. You are submissive, then he is too rough, then you don't want sex? (Understandable, and fixable.... but you are unclear on this)

4. You initiate, and get turned down. Do you think this is because he is masturbating instead of pleasuring you? 

5. Do you think.... if he stops watching porn, that everything will be solved? 

6. Do you think that counseling will be effective for the two of you? 

7. What happens if he goes through counseling and it happens again? Would you divorce him then? 

Not saying you are right or wrong about any of it. (Except on the children being affected).... I think people are who they are, hate what they hate, and have to figure out how to make it right in THEIR life. And sometimes the path to "making it right" sucks.... and sometimes a compromise can be made as part of that path.


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## diwali123

So he has it in his truck. What kind of truck? Like the can of an 18 wheeler? 
If not then where is he going to jerk off? He could get himself in a lot of trouble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rainydayismusic

Costa200 said, "I'm actually a teacher. I work with teens everyday. Anyone who thinks that they can "protect them" from porn is deluded. This woman's child is 11. I'm willing to bet everything you want that he has already seen porn in one shape or the other at that age."

This is one of the precise reasons my 12 year old son is 'Homeschooled' (I'm a College Grad so you don't need to question his curriculum or my ability to teach him) I am SO glad you are not his teacher. You most certainly would NOT be a good role model for him.
So, based on the fact that my son and I talk about EVERYTHING including sex, he has NOT been exposed to porn. He does not have a cell phone or a computer in his room like most kids his age, and that is usually how they get exposed nowadays. 
I'm not stupid, (or prudish either) I've done my homework and I've studied for FOUR YEARS the effects of porn on Men, Women, Children, Marriages and it's NOT a good thing. It destroys. And I don't need a college degree to know that.


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## Texas Lady

rainydayismusic said:


> Costa200 said, "I'm actually a teacher. I work with teens everyday. Anyone who thinks that they can "protect them" from porn is deluded. This woman's child is 11. I'm willing to bet everything you want that he has already seen porn in one shape or the other at that age."
> 
> This is one of the precise reasons my 12 year old son is 'Homeschooled' (I'm a College Grad so you don't need to question his curriculum or my ability to teach him) I am SO glad you are not his teacher. You most certainly would NOT be a good role model for him.
> So, based on the fact that my son and I talk about EVERYTHING including sex, he has NOT been exposed to porn. He does not have a cell phone or a computer in his room like most kids his age, and that is usually how they get exposed nowadays.
> I'm not stupid, (or prudish either) I've done my homework and I've studied for FOUR YEARS the effects of porn on Men, Women, Children, Marriages and it's NOT a good thing. It destroys. And I don't need a college degree to know that.


So your son has no friends? You don't think any of his friends have phone s and he might have seen something on there? Unless you shelter him completely from the outside world, there is a chance for him to be exposed to it. You can't protect him forever. My parents were very strict and I always found a way to do what I wanted.


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## SoWhat

I found a Playboy under the old bridge by the church when I was 11. 

(^ That could almost be the start of a country song!)


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## rainydayismusic

The problem SunnyT is that we are two people mismatched and suffering the consequences with five children involved..One of the reasons for the mismatched part is the dishonesty from the beginning. I don't know why people keep insisting I change MY beliefs, and the knowledge I've gained on the subject, because they don't agree with me. 
Yes, counseling could be beneficial if we BOTH attended but as I said in an earlier post, I have been seeing a counselor for awhile and he, so far, has refused.


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## costa200

rainydayismusic said:


> Costa200 said, "I'm actually a teacher. I work with teens everyday. Anyone who thinks that they can "protect them" from porn is deluded. This woman's child is 11. I'm willing to bet everything you want that he has already seen porn in one shape or the other at that age."
> 
> This is one of the precise reasons my 12 year old son is 'Homeschooled' (I'm a College Grad so you don't need to question his curriculum or my ability to teach him) I am SO glad you are not his teacher. You most certainly would NOT be a good role model for him.
> So, based on the fact that my son and I talk about EVERYTHING including sex, he has NOT been exposed to porn. He does not have a cell phone or a computer in his room like most kids his age, and that is usually how they get exposed nowadays.
> I'm not stupid, (or prudish either) I've done my homework and I've studied for FOUR YEARS the effects of porn on Men, Women, Children, Marriages and it's NOT a good thing. It destroys. And I don't need a college degree to know that.


You are aware that when i was a kid there was no internet, no dvds and VCR were an uncommon luxury? Unless you are going to tell me your son has no friends and never leaves the house and you're always on him whenever he uses the computer you don't know if he was or not exposed to porn.

And what do you get on saying i would not be a good role model? You don't know me. You actually know nothing about me. 

All you seem to know is that i don't think young boys seeing some boobs is the end of the world. Quite honestly mums like you raise kids with severe problems. Poor little boy!



> (I'm a College Grad so you don't need to question his curriculum or my ability to teach him)


Are you kidding me? What on earth makes you think being a college grad qualifies you as a good educator? I see fools with degrees everyday that work with me calling themselves teachers and they still can't teach to save their lives. Ability to teach is not only about what sort of academic qualification you have.


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## rainydayismusic

Texas Lady, I was exposed to things at a young age and my parents were very strict, but we didn't have open communication. An open door is something I've always kept with all of my children. No secrets, and no shame.
If my son finds something we'll talk about and he won't feel bad because he knows he can come to me. He always has.


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## rainydayismusic

Costa200 says, 'Are you kidding me? What on earth makes you think being a college grad qualifies you as a good educator? I see fools with degrees everyday that work with me calling themselves teachers and they still can't teach to save their lives. Ability to teach is not only about what sort of academic qualification you have.'
costa200 is online now Report Post Reply With Quote 

Then why should I think you or any other college grad would be qualified to teach my children?


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## costa200

rainydayismusic said:


> Costa200 says, 'Are you kidding me? What on earth makes you think being a college grad qualifies you as a good educator? I see fools with degrees everyday that work with me calling themselves teachers and they still can't teach to save their lives. Ability to teach is not only about what sort of academic qualification you have.'
> costa200 is online now Report Post Reply With Quote
> 
> Then why should I think you or any other college grad would be qualified to teach my children?


Never said you should.


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## that_girl

Teachers go to school to become teachers, after 4 years of college. At least in CA we do. We cannot major in Education. I know, because I did it. My 5th year was for my credential and I've been teaching 5th grade for 12 years.

As long as you follow the educational standards for your state (found online), you're good to go. And socialize him. He needs more than his mother.


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## ScratchSF

One of the benefits of a healthy marriage and the responsibility of both partners is safety and protection. Most people think of physical safety - keeping your partner and family out of harms way and defending them when needed; but it also goes to emotional and intimacy safety. What this means is that a partner has to feel that s/he can share some of their inner most ideas and fantasies with one another without fear of rejection or disapproval. Sexually, it means being willing to try more than a limited set of normal positions.

Based on your postings, it feels like he might not feel open or safe in telling you any new and creative ideas that deviate too far from what you consider acceptable.

But here's the deal. If he can't tell you the wacky things he wants to try, he won't. Instead he will find another outlet, and this - his visual aid collection - works for him.

I'm willing to bet that if he felt he could really express all of his sexual fantasies and desires to you and that you would be open to exploring them with him, that his use of visual aids would eventually go away - or reduced quite significantly.

Just curious, when you've spoken to him about counseling, has it been together? He might be open to initially talking to someone by himself (not as a couple).


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## rainydayismusic

that girl- I agree he needs more than his mother. We have lots of fun activities and socializing every week. 
I only mentioned my degree because most people are very critical of homeschooling families. Actually, a degree in my state is not a requirement to homeschool your children.


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## that_girl

It's not a requirement in most states. In CA the districts give Homeschooling materials and someone checks in once a month. I think it's great, so long as the kids are learning. I would probably eat my children if I homeschooled.


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## Texas Lady

that_girl said:


> It's not a requirement in most states. In CA the districts give Homeschooling materials and someone checks in once a month. I think it's great, so long as the kids are learning. I would probably eat my children if I homeschooled.


lol eat my children - love it


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## SunnyT

*Yes, counseling could be beneficial if we BOTH attended but as I said in an earlier post, I have been seeing a counselor for awhile and he, so far, has refused. *

I did miss that part about him refusing. So what're you going to do? Seems like you have two choices. 

1. Continues on living in this relationship with someone you find morally reprehensible... 

2. Divorce


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## rainydayismusic

ScratchSF- 
I have been very open with my H about exploring our sexual intimacy, and he has too. We've had some awesome wild nites and talk, giggle, smile and wink about them later on too. There are no shameful or negative feelings toward sex. 
I said in an earlier post that I go to counseling, he doesn't and as of two days ago he still does not want to. 
I can't fix this on my own.


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## that_girl

Maybe he doesn't think he has a problem. Maybe he likes to look at it but it's not an addiction? I dunno.

I would feel similar to you, for what it's worth. I dislike porn completely and made that clear when dating men. H was the first man to bring it up first. it has no place in our marriage, so I understand how you must feel, knowing he lied to you before marriage. He didn't let you make a clear choice about marrying him.


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## rainydayismusic

I'm going to ask my H if their is a point at which sex would be enjoyable enough without the porn, and see if we can agree and then go to counseling. 
If we can't agree, we might need to separate. Peacefully.


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## *LittleDeer*

Drover said:


> 1) Lighten up, lady. It's porn. Unless it's kiddy porn you should really just lighten up.
> 
> 2) Most men look at porn, some more than others. It's a pretty normal, natural thing.
> 
> 3) If he's going to look at it, he shouldn't lie to you about it. You need to make it clear that lying is not acceptable.
> 
> 4) Make it clear that masturbating to porn and then saying he's too tired to have sex with you is unacceptable.
> 
> You need to set some realistic boundaries, get agreement from him that they're acceptable, and then hold him to them.


Lighten up? What awful advice IMO
Please ignore all the advice in this thread by people who want to justify their own porn use.
Porn can be very harmful can be very addictive and just because it's a social norn to view porn doesn't make it healthy or OK. It is most often degrading to women and is more and more degrading all the time. He is also using other real live women (even if they are on film) to get off instead of his actual wife. That's just sad. Anything that replaces your spouse for intimacy is bad and anything that either of you are very uncomforatable with should be out of bounds. 

I think you need to leave him, hopefully that will shock him into taking action.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

I hate being told to "lighten up" about something that bothers me. that COMPLETELY invalidates someone's feelings. Stop it.


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## *LittleDeer*

ScratchSF said:


> One of the benefits of a healthy marriage and the responsibility of both partners is safety and protection. Most people think of physical safety - keeping your partner and family out of harms way and defending them when needed; but it also goes to emotional and intimacy safety. What this means is that a partner has to feel that s/he can share some of their inner most ideas and fantasies with one another without fear of rejection or disapproval. Sexually, it means being willing to try more than a limited set of normal positions.
> 
> Based on your postings, it feels like he might not feel open or safe in telling you any new and creative ideas that deviate too far from what you consider acceptable.
> 
> But here's the deal. If he can't tell you the wacky things he wants to try, he won't. Instead he will find another outlet, and this - his visual aid collection - works for him.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that if he felt he could really express all of his sexual fantasies and desires to you and that you would be open to exploring them with him, that his use of visual aids would eventually go away - or reduced quite significantly.
> 
> Just curious, when you've spoken to him about counseling, has it been together? He might be open to initially talking to someone by himself (not as a couple).


I agree with this partly BUT she also needs to feel safe and secure. He has done the opposite with all the lying and boundary crossing. 
Also porn creates unrealistic expectations and feeds desires for sex acts that are degrading and painful to women. He'd have a greater chance of expanding their sexual repotuire if he focused on her. He's the one with the problem she shouldn't have to change everything and do all the work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rainydayismusic

*LittleDeer* said:


> I agree with this partly BUT she also needs to feel safe and secure. He has done the opposite with all the lying and boundary crossing.
> Also porn creates unrealistic expectations and feeds desires for sex acts that are degrading and painful to women. He'd have a greater chance of expanding their sexual repotuire if he focused on her. He's the one with the problem she shouldn't have to change everything and do all the work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only reason someone would disagree with this is if they were justifying their own porn problem.


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## sisters359

Some of you people have poor reading comprehension. She said in earlier posts that the type of porn was a BIG part of what bothered her, and that he HURT her when they had sex. 

This isn't about some women liking to be submissive. This is about a man whose performance is painful to his wife AND who prefers his porn to a healthy sex life.

Geez, take time to read. She is the one who brought up violence, animals, and machines--so it is VERY relevant. Might give you an idea of what she's actually talking about and you might have better advice if you would get off your "porn is all good" positions and recognize that a lot of porn can create very unrealistic expectations. If someone is addicted to it, it's just that much more of a problem.


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## AFEH

I don’t think it a problem with comprehension, more like they just saw red when seeing the subject of porn being raised in a negative light, didn’t “read” anything at all and just went on the attack. Much like a bull does when it sees a red flag.

It’s much the same with cannabis users, who as far as I’m concerned are in denial of the harm it most certainly does. There’s no point in arguing with them, unless of course you like banging your head against a brick wall. With child users it's obviously different, in that we have to educate and protect them for their own good even if their parents don't.

As far as porn is concerned let’s hope Governments get their act together and legislate such that it’s a legal requirement for the ISP’s to block porn unless asked for by an adult. There are age restrictions on movies, alcohol, smoking, sex etc. and the same needs to be done with porn as there’s obviously loads of parents and teachers (as proven right here in this thread) who either have no idea whatsoever of the problems or are in complete denial of them and as such leave their children exceptionally vulnerable, much like the cannabis smoking parent.


Why on earth every single man and woman here who has posted against the OP doesn’t want to protect their children from some pretty degenerate, abusive and obscene behaviour and those men and women making massive amounts of money out of porn is way beyond me.


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## AFEH

rainydayismusic said:


> Thank you for all opinions..Side note: When I spoke of tearing their world in two, I was speaking of a divorce, not the porn.
> I am not being 'melodramatic' about the children being exposed to it either, because it was HIS step-father that had it and at 12 he 'stumbled upon it'. I have an 11 year old son. I already know that it will present itself to most everyone, my kids included, I just have to work harder now that it's around my home. To all those men that keep saying, 'Lighten up, We all watch porn', did any of you get that maybe there is a difference between 'watching and getting off to women having sex with machines' and looking at the female body? But Oh, maybe that's too boring for men nowadays.
> 
> For those who asked, sex is infrequent, and not because I don't take care of myself or am not always willing. But, physically it hurts too because he has to slam me to climax. (Ugh, I hate saying that even on a keyboard)
> MY problem summed up: He lied before marriage on something he knew I didn't like, (had kids with me too) AND *the extremely unnatural content he seems to enjoy.* I am also sorry to those that feel I've put up with this too long and given too many chances, my ONLY reason is for the children to continue living in an intact home (unfortunately with porn around) Otherwise, I would have ZERO problem leaving him to move on to some other chick that digs that sorta thing.


What is the content that is extremely unnatural, do you care to share? This obviously could be subjective, what’s unnatural to one could be natural to another.

But “extremely unnatural” sounds like depravity, morally bad, corrupt, wicked, evil, degenerate. Is that the case? And if it is, do you feel like you are living with a depraved and corrupt man?

If so then I think you must ask yourself why you are still married to him. Seriously. And if it is the case and you have seen the same images as he has, goodness knows what goes through your mind, what images you see or thoughts you have when you do have sex with him.



What some just don’t get here is that porn can be corrupting and children are being corrupted by porn such that they become depraved and they do need protecting, most especially when their parents don’t do the job themselves. And of course corrupted children later become parents.


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## *LittleDeer*

AFEH said:


> I don’t think it a problem with comprehension, more like they just saw red when seeing the subject of porn being raised in a negative light, didn’t “read” anything at all and just went on the attack. Much like a bull does when it sees a red flag.
> 
> It’s much the same with cannabis users, who as far as I’m concerned are in denial of the harm it most certainly does. There’s no point in arguing with them, unless of course you like banging your head against a brick wall. With child users it's obviously different, in that we have to educate and protect them for their own good even if their parents don't.
> 
> As far as porn is concerned let’s hope Governments get their act together and legislate such that it’s a legal requirement for the ISP’s to block porn unless asked for by an adult. There are age restrictions on movies, alcohol, smoking, sex etc. and the same needs to be done with porn as there’s obviously loads of parents and teachers (as proven right here in this thread) who either have no idea whatsoever of the problems or are in complete denial of them and as such leave their children exceptionally vulnerable, much like the cannabis smoking parent.
> 
> 
> Why on earth every single man and woman here who has posted against the OP doesn’t want to protect their children from some pretty degenerate, abusive and obscene behaviour and those men and women making massive amounts of money out of porn is way beyond me.


:iagree:
Fantastic post.


----------



## anonim

*LittleDeer* said:


> Also porn creates unrealistic expectations and feeds desires
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


meh, so does mills and boon, harlequin, twilight, magic mike, the titanic, 50 shades of grey and all disney movies.

The OP doesnt seem to want to share any info as to whats happening except her H is looking at porn and _*DOOOOOM.*_

Is it being left within reach of the kids? problem if so. if not he's not endangering them.

does the porn depict something universally degrading/immoral (and by universal i mean to 99% of people not the porn naters and addiction labelers)

Does he neglect the OP to look at porn?

and most importantly; _why is he unable to come to you and talk about it?_ 
If you screech and harp when you learned he was looking at it, he probably wont be open to communication about it, and throwing away a marriage away about an issue no one will talk about is just plain silly.

So did you come here to have your feelings validated or to seek advice?

Talk to (not fight with, put down, shame or label) your husband about why he looks at porn.
and why you feel the way you do about it. If youve done it before, do it again.


----------



## EleGirl

rainydayismusic said:


> To all those men that keep saying, 'Lighten up, We all watch porn', did any of you get that maybe there is a difference between 'watching and getting off to women having sex with machines' and looking at the female body? But Oh, maybe that's too boring for men nowadays.


When you way "sex with machines" do you mean vibrators? If not what kind of machines? I must be nieve.



rainydayismusic said:


> For those who asked, sex is infrequent, and not because I don't take care of myself or am not always willing. But, physically it hurts too because he has to slam me to climax. (Ugh, I hate saying that even on a keyboard).


Do you mean that he has to slam so that he can climax? Or so that you can climax?



rainydayismusic said:


> MY problem summed up: He lied before marriage on something he knew I didn't like, (had kids with me too) AND the extremely unnatural content he seems to enjoy. I am also sorry to those that feel I've put up with this too long and given too many chances, my ONLY reason is for the children to continue living in an intact home (unfortunately with porn around) Otherwise, I would have ZERO problem leaving him to move on to some other chick that digs that sorta thing.


I doubt that are many chicks who dig their guy using porn to the point that he has little to no interest in her.


----------



## AFEH

Unhappy2011 said:


> Ah ha....I am right. I'm always right and *that's why some of you retards hate me.*
> 
> Porn is just the symptom.
> 
> Don't argue with me anymore just accept my infinite wisdom as the gospel truth. lol...or be a retard I don't care.


You might want to apologise profusely for that comment.


----------



## anonim

Unhappy2011 said:


> Ah ha....I am right. I'm always right and that's why some of you retards hate me.
> 
> Porn is just the symptom.
> 
> Don't argue with me anymore just accept my infinite wisdom as the gospel truth. lol...or be a retard I don't care.


might have more to do with how you treat other people....just saying


----------



## anonim

AFEH said:


> You might want to apologise profusely for that comment.


yeah i can see the banhammer twitchin in his general direction.


----------



## EleGirl

Texas Lady said:


> I find that response a bit extreme! Keeping the children away? Protecting them from what? She never said he had such a porn issue that it was interfering with their kids. They don't have sex a lot because of her not him. I think it would be a mistake separating the family like that over this. Go to counseling before you do anything that drastic. I get you are pissed at him but don't involve your kids in this. Yes, they shouldn't find any of the porn, just like they shouldn't walk in on you two having sex. I'm sure you make that a private thing so this should be the same.


Rainy can respond to this but I believe she said that they do not have sex a lot because of him.

And additionally because it hurts because he has to slam her until it hurts her climax. 

Men who become addicted to porn and masterbate a lot become desensitized to sex with a real woman. They often develop ED. He probably has to slam into her because his penis is desensitized to the point that he needs more stimulation than he can get from vaginal sex. This is also a very common result of porn/masterbation addiction/overuse.

So their sparse sex life is his doing.

On the topic of the children. Children should not have access to porn. It's not healthy for young teens to start using it. This has become clear with the statics that are now coming out about the affect it's had on so many of the now 20 somethings who cannot get sexually aroused by a woman. 

What I have read is that the therapy for this is for a guy to cut out porn and masterbation for 3-6 months. It takes them that long to break the need to use porn/masterbation for sex. And then they should never go back to it because they are suseptable to falling back into it's over use.

Porn/masterbation is a problem when it ruins the sex life of a married couple.


----------



## AFEH

Unhappy2011 said:


> lol......
> 
> I am right. I am always right.
> 
> I don't care what you losers think.
> 
> Seriously, do the world a favor and don't breed.


Happiness is an Art. Obviously one which you are a zillion miles away from.


----------



## anonim

Unhappy2011 said:


> What a passive aggressive weak person you are.
> 
> You're nothing to me.


woooooo.......


----------



## anonim

Lets not feed the trolls.

@elegirl; ok, so what do you define as an addiction as far as porn goes, and whats the difference between using it, and being addicted to it.

I see way to many people throwing the A word around and never describe what behaviors are associated with their SO's porn usage,


----------



## EleGirl

sisters359 said:


> I agree that it is not normal or harmless to take pleasure in watching women be abused, victimized, humiliated, or otherwise demeaned, as is the suggestion that women would enjoy sex like this.





Unhappy2011 said:


> A) How did this enter the discussion?


This entered the discussion because the OP said that her husband has videos of women have sex with machines. So Sister brought up that there is so much porn now that is going beyond things that most women would want to have anything to do with.


Unhappy2011 said:


> B) and despite how many women and feminists have claimed this, the truth be told that many other wise normal women secretly desire to be submissive and dominated in bed.
> 
> No wonder there are so many confused men. Those "nice guys" who are so boring for not just taking control and ravishing her like she really wants because they have been conditioned to think doing so is degrading to a woman.


I’m sure that many or most women want to be tied to a machine and have the machine ram into her at a speed that hurts her… yep I guess that’s what we want. Glad you are here to inform us because we women did not realize this on our own.


----------



## anonim

Unhappy2011 said:


> A) How did this enter the discussion?
> 
> B) and despite how many women and feminists have claimed this, the truth be told that many other wise normal women secretly desire to be submissive and dominated in bed.
> 
> No wonder there are so many confused men. Those "nice guys" who are so boring for not just taking control and ravishing her like she really wants because they have been conditioned to think doing so is degrading to a woman.


no. they dont do it because its RAPE. And you can go to jail for a while for doing it. Where one might well get to experience the pleasure of being ravished that you so advocate.


----------



## Texas Lady

Being dominated in the bedroom = rape? Then you must be saying a lot of women want to be raped, which is not true. If a women WANTS to be dominated then it is definitely not rape. There is nothing wrong with being more aggressive and everything doesn't have to be sweet, slow love making. If you think I am the only one then go read about all the women running out buying hand cuffs and toys, after reading 50 shaded of grey. When you get married you should have enough trust in you spouse to be able to explore your sexual fantasies without being ashamed of it.


----------



## anonim

Texas Lady said:


> Being dominated in the bedroom = rape? Then you must be saying a lot of women want to be raped, which is not true. If a women WANTS to be dominated then it is definitely not rape. There is nothing wrong with being more aggressive and everything doesn't have to be sweet, slow love making. If you think I am the only one then go read about all the women running out buying hand cuffs and toys, after reading 50 shaded of grey. When you get married you should have enough trust in you spouse to be able to explore your sexual fantasies without being ashamed of it.


apparently you dont know what ravish means.

rav·ish/ˈraviSH/
Verb:	

Seize and carry off (someone) by force.
(of a man) Force (a woman or girl) to have sexual intercourse against her will.

so yes. Rape.


----------



## Texas Lady

anonim said:


> apparently you dont know what ravish means.
> 
> rav·ish/raviSH/
> Verb:
> 
> Seize and carry off (someone) by force.
> (of a man) Force (a woman or girl) to have sexual intercourse against her will.
> 
> so yes. Rape.


Well, I was actually commenting more on the dominance part he was mentioning. Either way, I don't think that is really what he means. He means instead of your husband saying, "honey do you want to make love tonight?" he should just grab his wife, throw her on the bed and give her best O of her life! Sounds like fun to me!


----------



## EleGirl

Rainy says that the some of the porn she found is women having sex with machines. So I did a google search on "porn sex with machines".

I cannot post a like to what I found because I would probably get banned for doing it. So if you are curious search for it if you are interested. 

I don't have a problem with some porn. I would be very upset if I found that my husband was looking at the kind of porn I found in that search. It look painful and well, disgusting. That's my opionion. A woman connected to a big machine with all kinds of things stuck in her ... well that's beyond what I consider acceptable.


----------



## EleGirl

Texas Lady said:


> Being dominated in the bedroom = rape? Then you must be saying a lot of women want to be raped, which is not true. If a women WANTS to be dominated then it is definitely not rape. There is nothing wrong with being more aggressive and everything doesn't have to be sweet, slow love making. If you think I am the only one then go read about all the women running out buying hand cuffs and toys, after reading 50 shaded of grey. When you get married you should have enough trust in you spouse to be able to explore your sexual fantasies without being ashamed of it.



I love rough sex. I love to wrestle and have sex… I always loose of course, ‘cause I’ve never had sex with a man weaker than I am. And from my point of view losing in the end is the entire point. But it’s all in good sex play. I expect that if a man were to start to actually hurt me he would stop when I tell him to (or use a safe word). If he does not it crosses the line and becomes rape.

I am not into abuse, being victimized, hurt, humiliated or demeaned. Are you into those things?

Most women are not.


----------



## *LittleDeer*

anonim said:


> meh, so does mills and boon, harlequin, twilight, magic mike, the titanic, 50 shades of grey and all disney movies.


I don't read that stuff, but i don't think any relationship has been damaged by expectations of being treated nicely and a bit of romance. However if it's so unrealistic for the avergae man to treat his wife with respect then maybe it is a fair comparison. :rofl: Most girls by the age of 13 understand there are no magic carpet rides.



> The OP doesnt seem to want to share any info as to whats happening except her H is looking at porn and _*DOOOOOM.*_


Seems like you haven't been reading her posts.



> Is it being left within reach of the kids? problem if so. if not he's not endangering them.


I have no idea, but I do think it's very damaging for young people to find porn.



> does the porn depict something universally degrading/immoral (and by universal i mean to 99% of people not the porn naters and addiction labelers)


If you read much about porn or studied it you would see that most of it is degrading and often violent towards women, you may not recognise it as so, (as studies now show most porn viewers don't) because it has become a norm. That's pretty sad.



> Does he neglect the OP to look at porn?


She did say that yes.



> and most importantly; _why is he unable to come to you and talk about it?_
> 
> If you screech and harp when you learned he was looking at it, he probably wont be open to communication about it, and throwing away a marriage away about an issue no one will talk about is just plain silly.


I believe she was honest from the start, he was the one lying about his habbits.

Seems like you have an agenda and that isn't going to help the OP.


----------



## Deejo

Thread-jack warning; the OP isn't asking about what kind of sex women do or do not like or what constitututes rape.

He has an addiction. End of story. The secrecy, discovery, insisting it won't happen again only to be rediscovered is what addiction is all about.

I know this story. Had a very good friend go through it. Very similar to OP.
He lied about it prior to being married. He preferred porn over sex with his wife. He lied about stopping, lied and minimized in counseling. She threatened to leave and divorce him if he was caught again ... and she did, after finding sites in his history such as 'Please bang my wife' , 'young and hot' and 'school-girl'. Post divorce, he is unquestionably still addicted, and hasn't been on a date in over 4 years.

The discussion can go on for as long as you like. In terms of how this ends ... you are going to be the one that has to make that decision. Not him. He doesn't need to. He doesn't need to do anything at all for as long as he knows that the only real consequence is you being upset, which is never going to be enough to make him stop.


----------



## Grayson

rainydayismusic said:


> The only reason someone would disagree with this is if they were justifying their own porn problem.


The ONLY reason? I disagree. It could also simply be that their experience is not as described by LittleDeer. I'll gladly use myself as an example. I can, with 100% confidence, say that porn has not "fed desires for sex acts that are degrading and painful to women." In point of fact, my tastes in what I view are influenced by what I enjoy doing in real life. Case in point, with a "potential TMI" alert: In the past, scenes of anal sex held no appeal for me...I skipped them over. Then, my wife and I tried it (mutual decision, with my willing agreement that I was willing to receive as well). We both enjoyed it, all aspects. Since that time, I can appreciate seeing it in porn as well. And, just like in real life, I'm not always in the mood for it.

Please. note, I'm not making the claim that what LittleDeer describes NEVER happens. I'm simply saying that it's not a foregone conclusion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RandomDude

anonim said:


> apparently you dont know what ravish means.
> rav·ish/ˈraviSH/
> Verb:
> Seize and carry off (someone) by force.
> (of a man) Force (a woman or girl) to have sexual intercourse against her will.
> so yes. Rape.


But RAVISH is such a nice word for dirty talk, rape sounds so crude

Anyways on topic, the missus and I never had the hang up about porn, however, lying and breaking trust, that's an issue. Personally though, there's no way in hell will I let the missus tell me whether or not I can watch porn.

In my opinion I feel you're being rather unreasonable in regards to porn but he's being very selfish and immature by lying to you and neglecting your needs. This isn't an issue that can be resolved by one person, you both need a deep talk and work as a team.


----------



## ScratchSF

rainydayismusic said:


> ScratchSF-
> I have been very open with my H about exploring our sexual intimacy, and he has too. We've had some awesome wild nites and talk, giggle, smile and wink about them later on too. There are no shameful or negative feelings toward sex.
> I said in an earlier post that I go to counseling, he doesn't and as of two days ago he still does not want to.
> I can't fix this on my own.


You're absolutely right; you can't fix this on your own. It takes two to dance and he certainly needs to meet you on the dance floor of working to make things better. He might not want to go to couple counseling, but he still my be convinced to go see someone on his own. But I get your point: my X didn't want to go through counseling because she labeled it "divorce planning." When she finally agreed to go, that's exactly what it was; not because the counselor was bad, but because that's what it was in her mind, so that's how she used it.



rainydayismusic said:


> I'm going to ask my H if their is a point at which sex would be enjoyable enough without the porn, and see if we can agree and then go to counseling.
> If we can't agree, we might need to separate. Peacefully.


It sounds like your doing the exact things I can think of suggesting, with the two biggest being counseling and talking. You also have your standards, which are yours to set and own. If you and your H can't agree, and this is ultra important to you and he knows that, then your choices are limited.

Has he shared why he's opposed to counseling?


----------



## CallaLily

Bottom line its how YOU feel period, regardless of what others say. You need to do what you feel is right for you and your family. 6 times your words and how you feel on the issue has fell on deaf ears with him, not once or twice, but 6 times. He is showing you where his priorities are right now.


----------



## SunnyT

*It sounds like your doing the exact things I can think of suggesting, with the two biggest being counseling and talking. You also have your standards, which are yours to set and own. If you and your H can't agree, and this is ultra important to you and he knows that, then your choices are limited.*

It doesn't matter if we agree with OP's view of porn or not. It's about her relationship with her H and what her next step is. 

OP wants to change her H. He lies to keep the peace (probably). She hates the lies and hates the porn. Period. 

His problem is that his wife doesn't approve of what he is doing. 

Her problem is how to live with (or without) someone who does something you find repulsive. 

OP did not say that her H does not have sex with her because of the porn. She said sometimes the sex hurts, but did not say whose call it is to not have sex. But... after finding the hated porn one more time, it's safe to say she is turned off by his actions.


----------



## SunnyT

Porn Addiction

This is an interesting site. It talks about porn addiction and it's criteria. Which is why I googled it. I wanted to see the criteria for being labeled addicted to porn. Especially when so many people are quick to jump on that bandwagon. 

There is a difference between a guy who hides porn from his wife to avoid her displeasure... and a guy who can't resist it and avoids responsibilities to engage in porn.


----------



## costa200

Holy cow. Reading some of the stuff in this thread i can get why some guys turn to porn... 

Also, why was this posted in the "Men's Clubhouse"? Apparently 9/10 people who have a problem with other people watching porn are women. So what's the point of this being here?

Almost every guy who tried to give his view of porn was digitally stoned for speaking his mind. You're not really interested in seeing the other side. What you want is that someone tells you that this particular husband is a perv of the 10th degree and you are totally justified in judging him and his actions according to your moral standards. And you are. 

I fully advise you to divorce that husband and search for a new one that doesn't look at *regular porn*. These may include but are not limited, for your reference:

1- Men with no sex drive at all (possibly due to hormonal malfunction)
2- Pedophiles (cuz grown women do nothing for them)
3- Closet homosexuals
4- Sexually abused men 
5- Some saints (not all)

Given the amount of women searching for men like these and the available number you may have some competition. 

Good luck with your search.

On the news:



> All men watch porn, scientists find
> * Scientists at the University of Montreal launched a search for men who had never looked at pornography - but couldn't find any.*
> 
> 
> 
> Researchers were conducting a study comparing the views of men in their 20s who had never been exposed to pornography with regular users.
> 
> But their project stumbled at the first hurdle when they failed to find a single man who had not been seen it.
> 
> “We started our research seeking men in their 20s who had never consumed pornography,” said Professor Simon Louis Lajeunesse. “We couldn't find any.”
> 
> Although hampered in its original aim, the study did examined the habits of those young men who used pornography – which would appear to be all of them.
> 
> Prof Lajeunesse interviewed 20 heterosexual male university students who consumed pornography, and found on average, *they first watched pornography when they were 10 years old.*
> 
> Around 90 per cent of consumption was on the internet, while 10 per cent of material came from video stores.
> 
> Single men watched pornography for an average of 40 minutes, three times a week, while those in relationships watched it 1.7 times a week for around 20 minutes.
> 
> The study found that men watched pornography that matched their own image of sexuality, and quickly discarded material they found offensive or distasteful.
> 
> Prof Lajeunesse said pornography did not have a negative effect on men's sexuality.
> 
> “Not one subject had a pathological sexuality,” he said. “In fact, all of their sexual practices were quite conventional.
> 
> “Pornography hasn't changed their perception of women or their relationship, which they all want to be as harmonious and fulfilling as possible,” he added.


----------



## EleGirl

costa200 said:


> Holy cow. Reading some of the stuff in this thread i can get why some guys turn to porn...
> 
> Also, why was this posted in the "Men's Clubhouse"? Apparently 9/10 people who have a problem with other people watching porn are women. So what's the point of this being here?
> 
> Almost every guy who tried to give his view of porn was digitally stoned for speaking his mind. You're not really interested in seeing the other side. What you want is that someone tells you that this particular husband is a perv of the 10th degree and you are totally justified in judging him and his actions according to your moral standards. And you are.
> 
> I fully advise you to divorce that husband and search for a new one that doesn't look at *regular porn*. These may include but are not limited, for your reference:
> 
> 1- Men with no sex drive at all (possibly due to hormonal malfunction)
> 2- Pedophiles (cuz grown women do nothing for them)
> 3- Closet homosexuals
> 4- Sexually abused men
> 5- Some saints (not all)
> 
> Given the amount of women searching for men like these and the available number you may have some competition.
> 
> Good luck with your search.
> 
> On the news:


A person has the right to set the boundaries which they will live by in their marriage. Rainy was upfront with her husband before marriage. He lied to her to get he to marry him. This seems to have escaped you.

Further he is not only watching "regular porn". Sex with machines porn, violent porn, and abusive port are hardly "regular porn". 

Further, his porn use is interferring with their sex life.. frequency and he is hurting her during sex.

Why are you glossing over these things in her situation?


----------



## costa200

> A person has the right to set the boundaries which they will live by in their marriage. Rainy was upfront with her husband before marriage. He lied to her to get he to marry him. This seems to have escaped you


Didn't i just advised divorce?



> Further he is not only watching "regular porn". Sex with machines porn, violent porn, and abusive port are hardly "regular porn".


DIVORCE... Then she can get a guy who just watches regular porn.



> Further, his porn use is interferring with their sex life.. frequency and he is hurting her during sex.


But the way it is interfering can't be inferred from what she says alone. We are getting just one side of it and it's a side that appears to not have internal consistency even.

Anyway, i just advised Divorce, so why do you say i'm "glossing over" something? She's unhappy, he is unhappy too apparently, then why prolong this helpless situation?


----------



## in my tree

EleGirl said:


> Why are you glossing over these things in her situation?


Because whenever porn is involved in a subject some people have to come out to defend all-things-porn related. 

Also what SunnyT said in 2 posts previous to costa's:
*"It doesn't matter if we agree with OP's view of porn or not. It's about her relationship with her H and what her next step is. *"

I couldn't agree more.


----------



## costa200

> Because whenever porn is involved in a subject some people have to come out to defend all-things-porn related.


And is supposed to be doing that here? Don't let your prejudice project on people. There are some serious horrible things related to porn. None of which has came up yet. 



> Also what SunnyT said in 2 posts previous to costa's:
> "It doesn't matter if we agree with OP's view of porn or not. It's about her relationship with her H and what her next step is. "
> 
> I couldn't agree more.


Absolutely, that's why my advice is divorce, without a doubt. It's pretty clear they are incompatible and there is the supreme danger that one of the kids see a boob somewhere. So better curtail all chances of that happening.


----------



## anonim

anonim said:


> meh, so does mills and boon, harlequin, twilight, magic mike, the titanic, 50 shades of grey and all disney movies.
> 
> 
> 
> *LittleDeer* said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read that stuff, but i don't think any relationship has been damaged by expectations of being treated nicely and a bit of romance. However if it's so unrealistic for the avergae man to treat his wife with respect then maybe it is a fair comparison. :rofl: Most girls by the age of 13 understand there are no magic carpet rides.
Click to expand...

I dont think being treated nicely, with respect and romance has ever damaged relationships either, nice to see we agree on something! :smthumbup: but when some people get their ideas of love and romance from things like harlequin romance novels, twilight movies and disney movies, they expect a distorted white knight / prince as an ideal man. which is just as disrepectful, and harmful as some people expecting jenna jameson as their ideal woman and all the good stuff that goes with it.

And you say that 'Most girls by the age of 13 understand there are no magic carpet rides.'; take a look in CWI and ill show you the WS who think that there are not only magic carpet rides, but that their SO is expected to provide the carpet, with bells attached, while the WS rides off into the sunset with the AP.

I bet they didnt learn this behavior from watching porn, porn would be a lot less harmful.




*LittleDeer* said:


> If you read much about porn or studied it you would see that most of it is degrading and often violent towards women, you may not recognise it as so, (as studies now show most porn viewers don't) because it has become a norm. That's pretty sad.


And I've seen studies that say otherwise. I've read about porn, watched it, and theres a HUGE variation of porn out there.

And some of it _is _degrading to either or both genders and I can only speak for me but I dont like that kind of stuff and I bet most _*people *_dont either but when you say its the norm that's not true and if you think i'm wrong, make a poll on it.




*LittleDeer* said:


> I believe she was honest from the start, he was the one lying about his habbits.
> 
> Seems like you have an agenda and that isn't going to help the OP.


I'll say that OP was honest to the H about what she wanted and didnt want. she wasnt honest about what she would do about it, which is what is hurting her now.

Yes I have an agenda. So do you, so does the OP.
The fact that this is the 6th time this has recurred says the OP has not the will or the stones to walk for her breached boundarys. In which case I suggest communication as a way to resolve, because the best chance the H has to stop it is if he's onboard with quitting porn and consciously desires to do so AND he has his wifes support.

Imagine if he could tell her that he felt tempted to look at porn without being afraid of her reaction? how much power would that give him over it?


----------



## anonim

in my tree said:


> Because whenever porn is involved in a subject some people have to come out to defend all-things-porn related.


Theres no need to defend something thats not being attacked...


----------



## *LittleDeer*

costa200 said:


> Holy cow. Reading some of the stuff in this thread i can get why some guys turn to porn...


 really? advising a woman not to stay with a man who watches porn that is very disturbing and who hurts her durin g sex, yes what awful people.


> Also, why was this posted in the "Men's Clubhouse"? Apparently 9/10 people who have a problem with other people watching porn are women. So what's the point of this being here?


Yes I read a study that even when porn is having a dramatic and devastating effect on men's lives, will they rarely admit it. Because it's a norm now and they think they have a right to use women in this way. if many women are saying it's an issue and harms their marriages maybe men should ask why? Unless of course you just don't care and you just want to be right.



> Almost every guy who tried to give his view of porn was digitally stoned for speaking his mind. You're not really interested in seeing the other side. What you want is that someone tells you that this particular husband is a perv of the 10th degree and you are totally justified in judging him and his actions according to your moral standards. And you are.


Actually I see some very reasonable discussions about why porn is harmful, however I also see you doing to women what you just claimed the women in this thread are doing, digitally stoning them that is. 
What's wrong with having moral standards? the problem today is our world is saturated by porn, the women in that porn are being used as purely sexual objects, and most men think it's their right to use this medium despite the fact it hurts their wives, because everybody else does.



> I fully advise you to divorce that husband and search for a new one that doesn't look at *regular porn*. These may include but are not limited, for your reference:
> 
> 1- Men with no sex drive at all (possibly due to hormonal malfunction)
> 2- Pedophiles (cuz grown women do nothing for them)
> 3- Closet homosexuals
> 4- Sexually abused men
> 5- Some saints (not all)


There are plenty of men on this site that have posted that they don't or no longer view porn. Not only that you are assuming their is something wrong with a man who makes a decision not to view porn, and that he must be a a homosexual or pedophile. I find that very odd and an awful thing to ssume about other men.





> On the news:[


The quote you provided was alarming and sad. I think you would be hard pressed these days finding any adult ho has never seen porn, it is every where. I think that's quite awful. I have seen plenty of studies that show it is in fact harmful, to the brain, it does change the way men view women etc. 



> By Mohamed Ghilan, UVic Neuroscience
> 
> It is now recognized in neuroscience that the brain is malleable. It changes with our experience and forms pathways and connections that correlate with what we watch, listen to, and learn. From the active engagement in a philosophical discussion in class to the learning of directions in the new city you moved into; even the seemingly passive sitting down to listen to music or watch television results in a constant formation of new connections in the brain that eventually make us who we are as individuals. A huge problem, albeit a silent one, that has reached epidemic proportions is the viewing of pornography, which affects men more so than it does women.
> 
> The great majority of articles on the problematic nature of this subject typically speak about it from a psychological and/or social perspective. This article, however, will shed light on the effects of viewing pornography from a neuroscience perspective.
> 
> The current model explaining how we learn and remember things at the brain level uses synaptic plasticity as the basis. Synaptic plasticity is the ability of the brain to change the strength in connections between the neurons (brain cells) in response to experience. This involves changing the amount and types of receptors expressed, as well as the amount of neurotransmitters (communication molecules) being released.
> 
> A vital neurotransmitter in the brain is dopamine. It has many important roles that it serves in functions such as voluntary movement, motivation, reward, punishment, and learning. Dopamine has been implicated in children with ADHD, cognitive decline due to aging, and depression. Most of the public’s knowledge about dopamine is about famous individuals with Parkinson’s disease such as Muhammad Ali and Michael J Fox, who have dopamine dysfunction pathology.
> 
> A vital role for dopamine is in pleasure experience, reward, and learning. Drugs such as cocaine target the dopaminergic system to release great amounts of dopamine which results in experiencing a “high,” often leading to addiction. A number of studies have implicated dopamine in either the anticipation or the direct experience of pleasure. Depending on the brain area, dopamine can be released either prior to or during the moments of heightened pleasure. When released, dopamine strengthens and reinforces the new connections that are being made in the brain while an activity is undertaken. This in turn acts to encourage the individual to repeat the activity again so they can feel that pleasure once more.
> 
> How is this relevant to pornography? As the images are displayed on the screen, an arousal takes place and the dopaminergic system is triggered just like it would be by drugs such as cocaine. The newly formed connections in the brain from watching pornographic images become greatly reinforced by the massive amounts of dopamine being released. Rather than going into short term memory, where these images can be forgotten after the screen is turned off, the dopamine reinforcement ensures they’re moved into the long-term memory stores where they can be stuck in replay mode in the person’s mind. The troublesome fact about this is that the more something is recalled, the more it solidifies it in the brain. Think back to your school days when you studied for an exam – you repeated the statements you needed to memorize over and over until they stuck.
> 
> Pornography is fantasy. Different scenes present with different women give the illusion of the watcher having a relationship with a new person every time. These “stars” subject themselves to different demeaning sexual practices by the men in the scenes. The acts in their totality are detestable to most mentally healthy people. However, the design of the act in a pornographic scene is to link one or two normally arousing and familiar elements with others that are not. This is how the viewer acquires new tastes in sexual practice. Electromagnetic waves are emitted from the screen with a fantasy that triggers a chemical reaction in the brain, releasing dopamine. The result is a feeling of a real, yet delusional, state of pleasure and satisfaction. The dopamine reinforces the new connections with newly acquired sexual tastes, and the next thing taking place is the man asking his wife to engage in a sexual fantasy that was downloaded into his subconscious.
> 
> The sequence of events in the brain is quite disturbingly simple. Synaptic plasticity works to form new connections as a result of watching pornography, and newly learned memories are stored. Since the experience is an arousing one, dopamine release results in very strong reinforcement of those new connections. Now that the scenes are in long-term memory, two consequences take place: 1) since the very same system stimulated by cocaine is being triggered by pornography, addiction is developed; and 2) the man will often attempt to create his own re-enactments with his wife, which leads to a great disappointment. The re-enactments do not live up to expectations because instead of many different women, it’s now only one. Worse yet, this only one woman doesn’t sound, act, or look the same as the ones downloaded into his mind. Although the first couple of re-enactments might be exciting, soon reality will strike and dopamine will no longer be released because pleasure is no longer derived.
> 
> Sadly, that’s not the end of it. After such a disappointment in the actual experience due to the unrealistic fantasy-based expectations, the brain not only refrains from releasing dopamine; it actually dips below baseline levels. It goes into a depression response that results in disappointment, dissatisfaction, and unhappiness in the marriage since the wife is “not up to what he expected”. Despite the efforts by many women to “spice things up” and even subject themselves to the demeaning acts that have been artificially downloaded into their husbands’ brains, the pornography-addicted husbands will only enjoy themselves for a very short while before losing interest. Meanwhile, the wife feels unattractive and emotionally abandoned despite her best efforts, not knowing that she couldn’t compete with the dopamine buzz offered by pornography.
> 
> What’s alarming about this information is that the brain acts as a whole entity; its plasticity is global. Change in one area affects other regions. It is a literal rewiring of overall neural connections as a result of pornography viewing. The extent of influence on other parts of the brain and cognition is an area of research requiring attention.
> 
> While neuroscience paints a very disturbing picture for those affected by watching pornography, it’s not all bad news. Although the same system for cocaine addiction is targeted by it, the substance is not the same. A cocaine addict must go through a regimented program to detoxify his system or otherwise he’ll be placing his life at risk. On the other hand, many men that have learned about the real stark effects of watching pornography are able to quit immediately without experiencing negative physiological consequences. It does take a lot of willpower and requires the person to busy themselves with other activities. Initially, tormenting replays of pornographic scenes watched over the past months or years will test the person’s drive and strength to give it up. Luckily, the same brain that went through a rewiring due to viewing pornography can also be rewired again. It is an extremely efficient organ that gets rid of unused connections. The longer a person can go without restimulating his pornographic connections, the more likely he makes it for his brain to discard them. Engaging in new experiences and occupying the brain with other PG-rated matters will be bound to force it to prune others away. It just needs time to do its work and it needs to be given the choice; it will always choose what the person activates more often.


How Watching Pornography Changes The Brain


----------



## *LittleDeer*

The problem also with studies done on the effcts of porn on men are that they are done incorrectly. they usually involve asking men if they have been negatively effected by porn, and if they believe it has changed how they view women and sex and of course, they say NO.

A good study would involve a scientific study of the reacations of men to different stimuli and their reactions to women and porn, how they described certain women after viewing porn, which porn aroused them most and if they even knew what they were watching was violent porn (funilly enough, many men do not even know that what they are watching is violent because its considered soft porn) and measuring changes in what they found arousing after watching certain porn and so on. Most studies are not done like this and so the results are 'studies' done by people, wishing to further their own agenda, you know the porn is harmless, because I said so lot. These are released to the media and reinforce the harmful belief that porn is a fine and dandy, when in fact scientists are finding it is very harmful.

So the OP is very right to be concerned about her husbands viewing habits.


----------



## Caribbean Man

The problem with this discussion about porn is that there is way too much hysteria and hypocrisy.
Before porn became mainstream, during the late 1800's, the problem that " afflicted men" 
was " self abuse or secret vice" also known as masturbation. Every possible ailment,from the common cold to chronic mental illness in men was blamed on masturbation.
So back then masturbation was evil ,and it was thought to have caused the same effects on men that some so called " studies " are claiming porn has on men today.

The funny thing is that whilst men who practised masturbation were labelled as perverts , sinners , feeble minded and weak,women were masturbating in secret. But it was considered [ by them & so clled doctors ] to have tremendous health benefits , including curing " feminine hysteria " or neurasthenia. The vibrator was invented in the late Victorian era and were a common fixture in ever " proper " woman's bedroom. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrator_(sex_toy)

Around the same time all sorts of " anti masturbation " devices were being patented and manufactured to prevent young men from indulging in " self abuse ."
http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-most-brutal-anti-masturbation-devices/robert-wabash
Even nocturnal emissions or " wet dreams " were considered evil , sinful and harmful to the overall mental health of a " proper " young man.
My point is ,the double standard with respect to male and female sexuality has always existed and will continue as long as we remain intolerant and unwilling to separate fact from fiction.


----------



## anonim

*LittleDeer* said:


> Actually I see some very reasonable discussions about why porn is harmful


very nice, now why cant we have a discussion as to _whether_ porn is harmful 1st eh? cart before the horse and all that.



*LittleDeer* said:


> What's wrong with having moral standards?


Nothing is wrong with having moral standards, except theres this thing where one guy (or girl) says that their moral standard is better/shinier/more important/WontSendYouToHell and no one realizes that having a moral standard is for The Self, and not to bludgeon the brains of other people that dont agree with your beliefs.

i.e. I dont think people should have anal sex. So I dont. But I also dont force other people not to have anal sex, nor do i attempt to coerce or threaten them into not having anal sex. You will not go to hell if you have anal. you will not harm me or affect me in anyway if you have anal. I just dont like it - for me.

That being said you have the right to object and take appropriate action if someones actions affect you.




*LittleDeer* said:


> There are plenty of men on this site that have posted that they don't or no longer view porn. Not only that you are assuming their is something wrong with a man who makes a decision not to view porn, and that he must be a a homosexual or pedophile. I find that very odd and an awful thing to ssume about other men.


you make a lot of indirect assertions and misplaced contexts about what people are trying to say. costa never said that there was anything wrong with men that chose not to view porn. Thats what YOU are implying.




*LittleDeer* said:


> The quote you provided was alarming and sad. I think you would be hard pressed these days finding any adult ho has never seen porn, it is every where. I think that's quite awful. I have seen plenty of studies that show it is in fact harmful, to the brain, it does change the way men view women etc.
> 
> Pornography Changes The Brain[/url]


ICantSayThat:iagree:

This is psudoscience. Its an essay about dopamine, and how it works in the brain.
Then you fit in your target subject (i.e. porn) and speculate about its effects on the brain (all uncited )

and the worst thing IMO, is that the stuff might be true, but its potentially true about _anything_ (like mills and boon, harlequin, twilight, disney movies etc) 

Heck, you might be getting a dopamine rush from attacking porn, who knows??


----------



## anonim

*LittleDeer* said:


> The problem also with studies done on the effcts of porn on men are that they are done incorrectly. they usually involve asking men if they have been negatively effected by porn, and if they believe it has changed how they view women and sex and of course, they say NO.
> 
> A good study would involve a scientific study of the reacations of men to different stimuli and their reactions to women and porn, how they described certain women after viewing porn, which porn aroused them most and if they even knew what they were watching was violent porn (funilly enough, many men do not even know that what they are watching is violent because its considered soft porn) and measuring changes in what they found arousing after watching certain porn and so on. Most studies are not done like this and so the results are 'studies' done by people, wishing to further their own agenda, you know the porn is harmless, because I said so lot. These are released to the media and reinforce the harmful belief that porn is a fine and dandy, when in fact scientists are finding it is very harmful.
> 
> So the OP is very right to be concerned about her husbands viewing habits.


I would agree with you about the study, except I would test men AND women. misandry much?

and its insulting of you to say that men dont know violence when we see it. we know what violence is, we are men after all.


----------



## costa200

> really? advising a woman not to stay with a man who watches porn that is very disturbing and who hurts her durin g sex, yes what awful people.


Those aren't the posts... Judgmental hypocritical snippets here and there are pretty much what makes many guys turn to porn. How is a guy supposed to share his fantasies with someone who will have him flailed alive for it? 

Take the OP for example. She claims to have reached out to her husband and whatnot. After busting his balls over something as innocuous as a magazine. How much openness can she expect after that? 

To turn the situation into words it was something like this:

"You're a dirty perv porn addict... Now lets talk about your innermost fantasies to increase our performance so that you don't look at porn no more..."

what is he going to do? Expose himself and get judgment day or clam up and continue to relieve himself in hiding?



> Yes I read a study that even when porn is having a dramatic and devastating effect on men's lives


Poor me then. I'm completely devastated... And my male friends are too... And the overwhelming majority of young males in this world! Oh wait... Thanks for caring but you got it wrong. 

We watched it and remain fully functional members of society. I actually pride myself of making my partner very happy sexually and otherwise. 

Now this:



> By Mohamed Ghilan, UVic Neuroscience
> 
> It is now recognized in neuroscience that the brain is malleable. It changes with our experience and forms pathways and connections that correlate with what we watch, listen to, and learn. From the active engagement in a philosophical discussion in class to the learning of directions in the new city you moved into; even the seemingly passive sitting down to listen to music or watch television results in a constant formation of new connections in the brain that eventually make us who we are as individuals. A huge problem, albeit a silent one, that has reached epidemic proportions is the viewing of pornography, which affects men more so than it does women.
> 
> The great majority of articles on the problematic nature of this subject typically speak about it from a psychological and/or social perspective. This article, however, will shed light on the effects of viewing pornography from a neuroscience perspective.
> 
> The current model explaining how we learn and remember things at the brain level uses synaptic plasticity as the basis. Synaptic plasticity is the ability of the brain to change the strength in connections between the neurons (brain cells) in response to experience. This involves changing the amount and types of receptors expressed, as well as the amount of neurotransmitters (communication molecules) being released.
> 
> A vital neurotransmitter in the brain is dopamine. It has many important roles that it serves in functions such as voluntary movement, motivation, reward, punishment, and learning. Dopamine has been implicated in children with ADHD, cognitive decline due to aging, and depression. Most of the public’s knowledge about dopamine is about famous individuals with Parkinson’s disease such as Muhammad Ali and Michael J Fox, who have dopamine dysfunction pathology.
> 
> A vital role for dopamine is in pleasure experience, reward, and learning. Drugs such as cocaine target the dopaminergic system to release great amounts of dopamine which results in experiencing a “high,” often leading to addiction. A number of studies have implicated dopamine in either the anticipation or the direct experience of pleasure. Depending on the brain area, dopamine can be released either prior to or during the moments of heightened pleasure. When released, dopamine strengthens and reinforces the new connections that are being made in the brain while an activity is undertaken. This in turn acts to encourage the individual to repeat the activity again so they can feel that pleasure once more.
> 
> How is this relevant to pornography? As the images are displayed on the screen, an arousal takes place and the dopaminergic system is triggered just like it would be by drugs such as cocaine. The newly formed connections in the brain from watching pornographic images become greatly reinforced by the massive amounts of dopamine being released. Rather than going into short term memory, where these images can be forgotten after the screen is turned off, the dopamine reinforcement ensures they’re moved into the long-term memory stores where they can be stuck in replay mode in the person’s mind. The troublesome fact about this is that the more something is recalled, the more it solidifies it in the brain. Think back to your school days when you studied for an exam – you repeated the statements you needed to memorize over and over until they stuck.
> 
> Pornography is fantasy. *Different scenes present with different women give the illusion of the watcher having a relationship with a new person every time.* These “stars” subject themselves to different demeaning sexual practices by the men in the scenes.* The acts in their totality are detestable to most mentally healthy people.* However, the design of the act in a pornographic scene is to link one or two normally arousing and familiar elements with others that are not. This is how the viewer acquires new tastes in sexual practice. Electromagnetic waves are emitted from the screen with a fantasy that triggers a chemical reaction in the brain, releasing dopamine. The result is a feeling of a real, yet delusional, state of pleasure and satisfaction. The dopamine reinforces the new connections with newly acquired sexual tastes, and the next thing taking place is the man asking his wife to engage in a sexual fantasy that was downloaded into his subconscious.
> 
> The sequence of events in the brain is quite disturbingly simple. Synaptic plasticity works to form new connections as a result of watching pornography, and newly learned memories are stored. Since the experience is an arousing one, dopamine release results in very strong reinforcement of those new connections. Now that the scenes are in long-term memory, two consequences take place: 1) since the very same system stimulated by cocaine is being triggered by pornography, addiction is developed; and 2) the man will often attempt to create his own re-enactments with his wife, which leads to a great disappointment. The re-enactments do not live up to expectations because instead of many different women, it’s now only one. Worse yet, this only one woman doesn’t sound, act, or look the same as the ones downloaded into his mind. Although the first couple of re-enactments might be exciting, soon reality will strike and dopamine will no longer be released because pleasure is no longer derived.
> 
> Sadly, that’s not the end of it. After such a disappointment in the actual experience due to the unrealistic fantasy-based expectations, the brain not only refrains from releasing dopamine; it actually dips below baseline levels. It goes into a depression response that results in disappointment, dissatisfaction, and unhappiness in the marriage since the wife is “not up to what he expected”. Despite the efforts by many women to “spice things up” and even subject themselves to the demeaning acts that have been artificially downloaded into their husbands’ brains, the pornography-addicted husbands will only enjoy themselves for a very short while before losing interest. Meanwhile, the wife feels unattractive and emotionally abandoned despite her best efforts, not knowing that she couldn’t compete with the dopamine buzz offered by pornography.
> 
> What’s alarming about this information is that the brain acts as a whole entity; its plasticity is global. Change in one area affects other regions. It is a literal rewiring of overall neural connections as a result of pornography viewing. The extent of influence on other parts of the brain and cognition is an area of research requiring attention.
> 
> While neuroscience paints a very disturbing picture for those affected by watching pornography, it’s not all bad news. Although the same system for cocaine addiction is targeted by it, the substance is not the same. A cocaine addict must go through a regimented program to detoxify his system or otherwise he’ll be placing his life at risk. On the other hand, many men that have learned about the real stark effects of watching pornography are able to quit immediately without experiencing negative physiological consequences. It does take a lot of willpower and requires the person to busy themselves with other activities. Initially, tormenting replays of pornographic scenes watched over the past months or years will test the person’s drive and strength to give it up. Luckily, the same brain that went through a rewiring due to viewing pornography can also be rewired again. It is an extremely efficient organ that gets rid of unused connections. The longer a person can go without restimulating his pornographic connections, the more likely he makes it for his brain to discard them. Engaging in new experiences and occupying the brain with other PG-rated matters will be bound to force it to prune others away. It just needs time to do its work and it needs to be given the choice; it will always choose what the person activates more often.




WoW, seriously Mohamed... Don't pull back from mixing real scientific knowledge with morality snippets and absolutely failing to explain why using porn is different from whatever masturbation aid you use. The dopamine reenforcement acts the same way whatever you use. So unless Mohamed is actually saying that all masturbatory action is harmful (and he probably is) i don't see him having a great point there. 

Seriously, this guy has it all upside down. Porn doesn't convince people to be a certain way. People seek the porn they like. Feel free to inquire. 



> when in fact scientists are finding it is very harmful.


Scientists like this Mohamed we can do without. He has the conclusion before the research. 

We have a huge test tube. The overwhelming majority of men engage in viewing porn of some sort. The overwhelming majority of men find no conflict with this and having a healthy sex life. We really need some women and the Mohameds of this world to tell us we are all damaged by it. Because you know better than we do. 



> There are plenty of men on this site that have posted that they don't or no longer view porn.


"Plenty" is actually a tiny percentage and i'm willing to say that even some of those are full of sh*t because their wife is looking over their shoulder. And then, even some women look at it. Are they addicts too? 



> I find that very odd and an awful thing to ssume about other men.


I would call it realistic. I am being 100% honest here. The number of straight guys without sexual deviancies (pedophilia and other weird fetishes) that don't look at regular porn is very small. It's not that they don't exist. But they are a fringe. Also, the reasons they point not to see it tend to be quite unique and special. Their choice, nothing against or in favor. 

Personally i've apprehended porn being passed around by young boys in class. And this is not new. I remember as a boy, no internet or videos my school buddies always found a way. And shocking as it may be for mommies, it's harmless (except if they try to do it my class, then they see what harm is).


----------



## *LittleDeer*

anonim said:


> I would agree with you about the study, except I would test men AND women. misandry much?
> 
> and its insulting of you to say that men dont know violence when we see it. we know what violence is, we are men after all.


Missandry? Lolz. Yes anyone who says they don't agree with porn consumption must hate men.

I call Straw Man.

I think it would be helpful if you tried to look at porn objectively, which can be very difficult when you are used to using it and justifying that use.

Most pornography contains some violence against women and in ever increasing amounts. Pornography makers admit this, and even talk about how they run out of ways to be ever more degrading and violent.


----------



## EleGirl

Maybe we should get this thread back on tack. Maybe yet another thread on the pros and cons of porn could be started by those who want to discuss it.

This thread is about Rainy's marriage and porn in her marriage. These long disucssions are not helpful to her issues.

I'd like to see her come back here so we can give her some support/help. These long discussions are most likely going to keep her away.

Can we please get back on track?


----------



## costa200

EleGirl said:


> Maybe we should get this thread back on tack. Maybe yet another thread on the pros and cons of porn could be started by those who want to discuss it.
> 
> This thread is about Rainy's marriage and porn in her marriage. These long disucssions are not helpful to her issues.
> 
> I'd like to see her come back here so we can give her some support/help. These long discussions are most likely going to keep her away.
> 
> Can we please get back on track?


You're right. Personally i've given the advice i think reasonable. I'm refraining from further discussing the offshoot topic in this thread.


----------



## Caribbean Man

*LittleDeer* said:


> Missandry? Lolz. Yes anyone who says they don't agree with porn consumption must hate men.
> 
> I call Straw Man.
> 
> I think it would be helpful if you tried to look at porn objectively, which can be very difficult when you are used to using it and justifying that use.
> 
> *Most pornography contains some violence against women and in ever increasing amounts. Pornography makers admit this, and even talk about how they run out of ways to be ever more degrading and violent.*




Whilst I understand your angst,I cannot agree with what you are saying wholesale.
I have read threads on this TAM website where WOMEN actually say that they love to be restrained and tied during sex. I have had sex with women who like rough sex.
There are women who love bondage , hot wax etc.
Even my wife sometimes tells me when she is in the mood for what I call the " pleasure / pain complex " where she derives pleasure from the pain she gets when I place her in certain sexual positions,and use just enough force.

Human sexuality is very complex.
The majority of porn absolutely cannot be considered as violent.In fact, violent porn is a niche category in porn itself.
Let me gve you a few examples.
1] Solo / Striptease
2] Masturbation Videos
3] Lingerie Porn
4] Nudist Porn
5] Legs / Feet
6] Boobs
7]Hairy
8] Pantyhose/Stocking/Heels
9] Pee 
10]Voyeur
11]Role Play 
12]Webcam / Interactive.

These are just a few examples of non violent porn and the list goes on endlessly. Pornographers try to meet ever single fetish, and they are having a hard time because human sexuality is complex.

If porn was so degrading and violent towards women,then why are pornographers always in business with fresh new faces?
Pornography like Alcohol & Gambling is a billion dollar business , and just like them ,if its abused will result in the exact same damage.


----------



## anonim

*LittleDeer* said:


> Missandry? Lolz. Yes anyone who says they don't agree with porn consumption must hate men.
> 
> I call Straw Man.
> 
> I think it would be helpful if you tried to look at porn objectively, which can be very difficult when you are used to using it and justifying that use.
> 
> Most pornography contains some violence against women and in ever increasing amounts. Pornography makers admit this, and even talk about how they run out of ways to be ever more degrading and violent.


no. the misandry comes from not applying the same standard to men and women equally and it still stands.

I think it would be very helpful if you tried to look at porn objectively, which can be very difficult when you are used to labeling any men that look at it as addicts, regardless of what kind of porn they look at or with what frequency. If you dont look at porn how do you know that most of it is violent towards women? thats right, you dont. and the majority isnt.

try asking those that look at it?


----------



## anonim

EleGirl said:


> Maybe we should get this thread back on tack. Maybe yet another thread on the pros and cons of porn could be started by those who want to discuss it.
> 
> This thread is about Rainy's marriage and porn in her marriage. These long disucssions are not helpful to her issues.
> 
> I'd like to see her come back here so we can give her some support/help. These long discussions are most likely going to keep her away.
> 
> Can we please get back on track?


yeah i agree, my apologies OP


----------



## EleGirl

Caribbean Man said:


> If porn was so degrading and violent towards women,then why are pornographers always in business with fresh new faces?
> 
> Pornography like Alcohol & Gambling is a billion dollar business , and just like them ,if its abused will result in the exact same damage.


I have no issues with people (my self, my husband and others) viewing porn if it's use does not interfere with their relationships or otherwise hurt themselves, the people around them and the people acting in the porn. It's a personal choice. 



The porn industry itself is very complex.Why are there always new faces?

One of my issues with porn, which I have not resolved in my mind as of yet is about the women and men who 'act' in porn.

Yes there are women and men who willingly do it because it's so lucrative. Generally they are people who feel they have no other choices to make that kind of money.

But even for these willing people, how many of them feel this way about themselves because they are victims of childhood sexual abuse and things that damaged them to the core? How many women and men who are mentally healthy poeple would do this? I'm not sure that many would.

Then there is the sex slavery or near-slavery industry that takes girls/young women and even young boys/men and basically forces them to participate. While I think the use of sex-slaves in American produced porn is low, from what I read it's very high in the foreign produced porn.

So, when someone watches porn, there is a good chance that they are paying money to support human slavery, sex-slavery. That makes the viewer no better than the people forcing the 'actors' to do things that they would not usually do.

I don't think that there is a rating system that tells the viewers if the 'actors' are being forced to do what they are doing. So the veiwers don't know what they are really participting in.

Also, there are plenty of people who view porn regularly that look down on the 'actors', especially the 'actresses'. They veiw them as ****s and other unkind things. IMO, anyone who views porn is on the same moral plane as those who act in it. It's the same as a john who considers himself morally superior to a prostitute.


----------



## EleGirl

anonim said:


> yeah i agree, my apologies OP


Opps...since the discussion continued I made another post above. I have sent the OP a PM suggesting that she start another thread so that she can have one without all this discussion. I'm hoping we have not scared her away.


----------



## anonim

EleGirl said:


> I have no issues with people (my self, my husband and others) viewing porn if it's use does not interfere with their relationships or otherwise hurt themselves, the people around them and the people acting in the porn. It's a personal choice.
> 
> 
> 
> The porn industry itself is very complex.Why are there always new faces?
> 
> One of my issues with porn, which I have not resolved in my mind as of yet is about the women and men who 'act' in porn.
> 
> Yes there are women and men who willingly do it because it's so lucrative. Generally they are people who feel they have no other choices to make that kind of money.
> 
> But even for these willing people, how many of them feel this way about themselves because they are victims of childhood sexual abuse and things that damaged them to the core? How many women and men who are mentally healthy poeple would do this? I'm not sure that many would.
> 
> Then there is the sex slavery or near-slavery industry that takes girls/young women and even young boys/men and basically forces them to participate. While I think the use of sex-slaves in American produced porn is low, from what I read it's very high in the foreign produced porn.
> 
> So, when someone watches porn, there is a good chance that they are paying money to support human slavery, sex-slavery. That makes the viewer no better than the people forcing the 'actors' to do things that they would not usually do.
> 
> I don't think that there is a rating system that tells the viewers if the 'actors' are being forced to do what they are doing. So the veiwers don't know what they are really participting in.
> 
> Also, there are plenty of people who view porn regularly that look down on the 'actors', especially the 'actresses'. They veiw them as ****s and other unkind things. IMO, anyone who views porn is on the same moral plane as those who act in it. It's the same as a john who considers himself morally superior to a prostitute.


I think thats a fair assessment, though viewers that look down on actors/actresses would probably look down on anyone that they felt were inferior to them.

a rating system would be an awesome idea.


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## Caribbean Man

EleGirl said:


> The porn industry itself is very complex.Why are there always new faces?
> 
> One of my issues with porn, which I have not resolved in my mind as of yet is about the women and men who 'act' in porn.
> 
> *Yes there are women and men who willingly do it because it's so lucrative. Generally they are people who feel they have no other choices to make that kind of money.*
> 
> But even for these willing people, how many of them feel this way about themselves because they are victims of childhood sexual abuse and things that damaged them to the core? How many women and men who are mentally healthy poeple would do this? I'm not sure that many would.



Well elegirl,
If it were that simple,then we wouldn't even behaving this discussion.
I have a cousin who years ago posed nude for a local softcore " skin " magazine. Of course everyone in our family expressed shock [ except me. I saw the pics and they were tastefully done]. She was young and very beautiful , but most of all her father was affluent and she was a university grad.
She wasn't looking for money,nor was she abused. She did it for the fun.
A lot of pornstars do drugs , have been abused as kids and have STD's. But so too a lot of rock musicians, rappers , and almost anybody in show business.
I work in the fashion industry.
At one time I used to vet girls for photo shoots as models for magazines and billboard ads etc. 
I was amazed at how many of these these girls would offer themselves to me for sex , because they wanted to get their face on a billboard or magazine cover. More than 90%. I was married,I always refused and somehow a rumour was started that I was gay.

I left that aspect of the business.
But it gave me a better understanding of how complex humans are, and why porn is a billion dollar business.


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## EleGirl

Caribbean Man said:


> Well elegirl,
> If it were that simple,then we wouldn't even behaving this discussion.
> I have a cousin who years ago posed nude for a local softcore " skin " magazine. Of course everyone in our family expressed shock [ except me. I saw the pics and they were tastefully done]. She was young and very beautiful , but most of all her father was affluent and she was a university grad.
> She wasn't looking for money,nor was she abused. She did it for the fun.
> A lot of pornstars do drugs , have been abused as kids and have STD's. But so too a lot of rock musicians, rappers , and almost anybody in show business.
> I work in the fashion industry.
> At one time I used to vet girls for photo shoots as models for magazines and billboard ads etc.
> I was amazed at how many of these these girls would offer themselves to me for sex , because they wanted to get their face on a billboard or magazine cover. More than 90%. I was married,I always refused and somehow a rumour was started that I was gay.
> 
> I left that aspect of the business.
> But it gave me a better understanding of how complex humans are, and why porn is a billion dollar business.


Your cousin... softcore is, in my mind, not really born. Nude pictures of people, beautiful or otherwise is not really porn... not the porn I think we are discussing here anyway. 

As for women (and men) who will trade sexual favors to get their pictures in whatever media they are interested in… I still think it takes a person who has some issues to see their own sexuality as a bargaining chip or a way to pay for access.

Yes a lot of rock musicians, rappers, and a lot of people in show business have issues with prior abuse, drug use, etc... but they are not doing sex acts for the public. There is a difference. Each person experiences the damage from these things differently. Most do not end up thinking that their best or only chance to earn a good living is to engage in video's sex acts so that people they don't know can jack off them. There's a difference between being a rock start and a porn star.

Most men on this forum (and in the population) would not date and certainly not marry the very women they get off on in porn. From my conversations with men and threads on this forum, most men look down on these women.

My major concern is about the sex-slavery industry that uses girls/women and boys/men who have no choice in what they are doing. Their very lives are in danger if they refuse to engage in the sex acts.


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## EleGirl

anonim said:


> I think thats a fair assessment, though viewers that look down on actors/actresses would probably look down on anyone that they felt were inferior to them.
> 
> a rating system would be an awesome idea.


The problem with a rating system is that those who are using sex slaves are not going to admit it and put that rating on their porn.

Most men I have ever discussed porn with say that they would never date (in a serious relationship) or marry any women who is a porn 'actress'. I am of the impression that most men look down on them.


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## EleGirl

I also wonder how a husband would react to their wife having a regular viewing habit of porn involving really well built men.


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## that_girl

anonim said:


> no. they dont do it because its RAPE. And you can go to jail for a while for doing it. Where one might well get to experience the pleasure of being ravished that you so advocate.


:scratchhead::scratchhead:

It's not rape unless the woman said no . Holy crap. My husband 'ravishes' my body all the time. It's awesome and I like a good pounding. It's not rape. Just because sex can be rough and hard and ravishing, doesn't mean it's rape.


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## that_girl

Ravish also means to give great delight to; or to enrapture.

ravishing (Adjective)
enchanting, beautiful, lovely, stunning (informal), charming, entrancing, gorgeous, dazzling, delightful, radiant, drop-dead (slang), bewitching ----She looked ravishing.

When my husband says he wants to ravish my body, I don't scream rape.


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## anonim

EleGirl said:


> The problem with a rating system is that those who are using sex slaves are not going to admit it and put that rating on their porn.
> 
> Most men I have ever discussed porn with say that they would never date (in a serious relationship) or marry any women who is a porn 'actress'. I am of the impression that most men look down on them.


on the contrary do you ever discuss with women, whether they would marry or seriously date a male porn actor? i think most women wouldnt either. and its not to with gender bias, its just most people cant handle their mate screwing other people.




EleGirl said:


> I also wonder how a husband would react to their wife having a regular viewing habit of porn involving really well built men.


Its been done i think, search it out. I take the same stand as always, I wouldnt be bothered unless she was watching it instead of doing me.


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## EleGirl

I also wonder how a husband would react to their wife having a regular viewing habit of porn involving really well built men.

When I was in the Army, some of the girls put up posters of men posing in the nude. They caught h3ll from the males in our units. The men were very upset that the women were being so disgusting. 

When I was stationed in the pentagon we had a sgt in our office that had the female cheese cake pages from the Army magazine under the glass of his desk and framed on his wall. They were tasteful pictures of women wearing lingerie in sexy poses. 

Once a year they did a page of a nice looking, fully clothed guy for the female soldiers… not guys in sexy cloths. Well one time they had a popular football player in a sweat shirt that was torn so that his mid-section showed… his belly button and some stomach hair. So I framed it and hung it on the wall by my desk. I really thought nothing of it. I was just poking fun at the sgt who was my friend.

Well no one, male or female, ever complained about all the cheese cake photos the sgt had in his office. But my one picture of a fully clothed football player with a bit of his stomach showing caused an uproar …. Among the men in the Pentagon’s Army War Department. I had enlisted men and officers complaining about the pornographic picture of a man I had over my desk. They made these complains to my face and to Army personnel. 

Nothing ever happened to me because I just had to take the complainer to the sgt’s office. They all were very much aware of the sgt’s office because he’d had those photos of scantily dressed women up there for years. At least my photo was of a guy with only his belly showing.


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## anonim

Thats a nasty double standard.





that_girl said:


> :scratchhead::scratchhead:
> 
> It's not rape unless the woman said no . Holy crap. My husband 'ravishes' my body all the time. It's awesome and I like a good pounding. It's not rape. Just because sex can be rough and hard and ravishing, doesn't mean it's rape.


The law might disagree with you on that varying by state.

The word you mean is something other then ravish then because when I look up the meaning of ravish, it definitively states rape in the sexual context.


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## EleGirl

anonim said:


> on the contrary do you ever discuss with women, whether they would marry or seriously date a male porn actor? i think most women wouldnt either. and its not to with gender bias, its just most people cant handle their mate screwing other people.


Ah, but this does not apply to most of the women because most of the women are not watching porn on a normal basis. Most women are not consumers of porn, so their view of the men who are 'actors' in porn are not hypocritical.


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## that_girl

Yes, but when my husband says, "I want to ravish your body", I know he won't rape me .


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## anonim

EleGirl said:


> Ah, but this does not apply to most of the women because most of the women are not watching porn on a normal basis. Most women are not consumers of porn, so their view of the men who are 'actors' in porn are not hypocritical.


....so how do you know it doesnt apply to women if you dont ask them?.....

Its biased not to really.


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## EleGirl

anonim said:


> ....so how do you know it doesnt apply to women if you dont ask them?.....
> 
> Its biased not to really.


If a woman views porn regularly and she looks down on the people in the porn industry, then she is hypocritical.

However, most things I have read say that most women do not veiw porn. If a woman who does not view porn looks down on those who are in the porn industry she is not hypocritical because she is not invovled in viewing porn and is not a consumer of porn.


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## rainydayismusic

that_girl said:


> Yes, but when my husband says, "I want to ravish your body", I know he won't rape me .


How 'Ravish and Rape' are being compared here, I have no idea....My H Ravishing me back in the day: AWESOME! Now: Painful. Although I wouldn't consider it Ravish or Rape. Just self centered.
I know how my husbands body works with my own, and I should know, we've been intimate for almost 14 years. The length of time and force it takes for 'HIM' to climax has only increased DRAMATICALLY in the last few years! And that's for the handful of times in a month already. Why? Because life is boring? Is it because he's been with the same old person for too long?? Am I not DARING enough?? Too PRUDISH??
UH YEAH, GARBAGE: I KNOW that a loving marriage GROWS and only gets better with time when both H and W are LOVING and SENSITIVE to each others needs. My H and I, ARE NOT on the same page here. There is NO LACK of communication here either because I've been clear about how it feels to me, what I like, asked what HE likes, ect. So he's not in the dark about this.
As for the posters who say, 'DIVORCE', Thank You, NOTED. Divorce is a little more complicated than that (especially with kd's) 
(FYC: I would NEVER suggest a 'divorce' to a complete stranger on a post in a forum. WTH?) 
Separation is more likely if conditions don't improve. Counseling? Always an option, if he ever decides to participate.


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## costa200

> The length of time and force it takes for 'HIM' to climax has only increased DRAMATICALLY in the last few years!


How old is he? Is he healthy and fit? Does he take medication for something? How is his blood pressure? An increase in time to reach orgasm can mean a lot of different things. Maybe a visit to the doctor is in order? 



> I KNOW that a loving marriage GROWS and only gets better with time


But as far as sex goes things aren't always that clear cut. When people say sex gets better it is usually because people get to know each other's bodies and tastes and dislikes. But nothing really beats the excitement of novelty. 

That's why many couples try role-playing and acting out some daredevil fantasies.



> As for the posters who say, 'DIVORCE', Thank You, NOTED. Divorce is a little more complicated than that (especially with kd's)


Yes, that was basically the reaction i was expecting here... So, this issue won't lead you to divorce him but just annoys the hell out of you. It's a really hard situation. You won't budge on your demand that he stops doing it and he won't stop it (6th time... hopeless). What now? It's going to be complicated. You can continue to bust his balls over it whenever you find the stuff and this will go on forever. 

You seem to have taken a look at the mags and you found it disgusting. So i guess that rules out fooling around with the notions and things done in them, is that correct?


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## rainydayismusic

Costa200 says, "You seem to have taken a look at the mags and you found it disgusting. So i guess that rules out fooling around with the notions and things done in them, is that correct?"[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm.....sex with a robotic contraption? No thank you. Group sex? Nahh. Another woman? Um..Not gay, or bi or curious, so, I think I'll pass.


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## moco82

EleGirl said:


> I also wonder how a husband would react to their wife having a regular viewing habit of porn involving really well built men.


Very well-built men stare out at women from billboards along roads and on the subway (although under the Pentagon there are mostly ads for IT systems and fueling planes ), in magazines and newspapers, on sites and in books... Viewing them in acts that these men almost certainly inevitably do isn't at all outlandish.


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## costa200

> Hmmmm.....sex with a robotic contraption? No thank you. Group sex? Nahh. Another woman? Um..Not gay, or bi or curious, so, I think I'll pass.


I have no idea exactly what you saw there. That weird stuff will certainly be hard to do. Were there any other more normal stuff?


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## EleGirl

costa200 said:


> I have no idea exactly what you saw there. That weird stuff will certainly be hard to do. Were there any other more normal stuff?


Do a google search on "porn sex with machines" . You'll see what she's talking about. This thread has introduced me to yet another bizare level of human sexuality....or whatever that's called.


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## EleGirl

moco82 said:


> Very well-built men stare out at women from billboards along roads and on the subway (although under the Pentagon there are mostly ads for IT systems and fueling planes ), in magazines and newspapers, on sites and in books... Viewing them in acts that these men almost certainly inevitably do isn't at all outlandish.


A well built guy on billboards is very different for a man experiencing what many women do....

Do find out that your spouse is masterbating in secret on a regular bases to images of porn and live porn online.

How would you react that that were just about the only sex your wife wanted... masterbation while she watches other men get it on?

Your bringing up billboards completely minimizes my point. I'm sure you were aware of that when you posted it.


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## FirstYearDown

that_girl said:


> :scratchhead::scratchhead:
> 
> It's not rape unless the woman said no . Holy crap. My husband 'ravishes' my body all the time. It's awesome and I like a good pounding. It's not rape. Just because sex can be rough and hard and ravishing, doesn't mean it's rape.


:iagree::iagree: I love me some jackrabbit sex with Mr. FYD.

As for Rainy, I feel very disturbed by the kind of porn her husband is into. I am also sad that porn is causing problems in her bedroom and the fact that her husband feels the need to lie about his porn addiction. 

I am one of the few women who enjoy porn and relatively frequent masturbation. I have been touching myself since age 4 and I had my first taste of porn at age 12. It does not affect our marriage because our sex life is amazing and the porn I watch is not hardcore or weird at all. (Lesbian and hetero cunnlilingus) 

I would never choose porn over my husband. My husband draws the line at sex toys because he feels jealous when I use those. "Why would you need a vibrator? You have me! I'M your sex toy!" :rofl: The hubby is clearly insecure, so I do not buy sex toys out of respect for him. 

Porn is just a smokescreen; the real issues are addiction and being dishonest. Unless Rainy's husband is willing to examine and correct his behavior, I don't see the marriage improving.


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## jaquen

rainydayismusic said:


> How could anyone bring this out into the light of day when there ARE children and they would not eventually be exposed to it? And not by just anyone, but their FATHER. I have five, still innocent children, that I refuse to let be exposed to this for as long as I can. The fact that the man I chose to marry and have children with LIED to me BEFORE we got married is NOT my fault. He lied and hid it well KNOWING that I DO find it morally reprehensible. The 'porn', and his use of it would be the reason for the damage to our marriage, not because I don't accept something I've ALWAYS been against. I would have no problem leaving him to let him have his 'stuff' all to himself, but with the children, I cannot bear to tear their world in two. I admit it is a balancing act staying married and keeping the kids safe. I have been supportive in helping him to overcome this and offered to go to counseling with him (or he can go alone) but he INSISTS it 's no problem and he can stop anytime...and then, he obviously doesn't.
> As for the sex...the only complaint would be he is usually too tired and can go weeks without it because, well, let's face it, he has 'Other Options'...So good luck to anyone trying to convince me this is 'Normal'. It would be like trying to convince me there isn't a God. BTW, if this was a casual peak at women's naked body's because they are beautiful, then this would be very different, but the stuff I found WAS VULGAR and demeaning to me as a woman. How can he look at me or our daughter's in a respectable way after indulging in watching group sex and women having sex with machines? And getting off on it too? I also found some kind of device that has what looks like a small probe and a long wire attached to some sort of battery powered thing with a button on it..no idea what that is. Why is this better than being with me? His always faithful, supportive, loving wife..
> I'm just so sad and don't know what to do and I guess I asked the original question about the where and how because I can't deal with this anymore...



If your husband knew you felt like this before marriage, he shouldn't have agreed to marry you. That you seriously are questioning how your husband looks at your DAUGHTER based off his viewing of pretty common porn is alarming.

The big mistake he made was marrying a woman who reacts this way to his watching porn. He should have never even put himself in the position of having to lie about something he's been doing since he was 12. He'd have been better off partnering with a woman who's ideas, and thoughts, on the matter weren't nearly as extreme as yours.


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## ladybird

rainydayismusic ~ 

I don't think that you are being melodramatic.. Porn is always a huge debate on this board and everywhere. You will always get the ones who like it to tell you to back off and let your h "do his thing". There is no harm in it type of B.S. Or the whole you should put out more crap.

I have been reading over some of the posts on this thread and some of them come of as very Rude. She is on this board looking for HELP, not criticism.


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## jaquen

ladybird said:


> rainydayismusic ~
> 
> I don't think that you are being melodramatic.. Porn is always a huge debate on this board and everywhere. You will always get the ones who like it to tell you to back off and let your h "do his thing". There is no harm in it type of B.S. Or the whole you should put out more crap.
> 
> I have been reading over some of the posts on this thread and some of them come of as very Rude. She is on this board looking for HELP, not criticism.


Actually some of the ruder, and more offensive posts, original from the OP herself.

She's hardly a victim here.

Just saying.


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## Annanukian

Obviously he is getting something from the mags that he ain't getting in the bedroom. Sorry to be blunt.

If he is addicted to porn and it's putting you off him, then dump him.


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## cloudwithleggs

EleGirl said:


> Nude pictures of people, beautiful or otherwise is not really porn... not the porn I think we are discussing here anyway.


I don't know semi nudes do seem to be considered porn, i think i remember i posted a semi nude and was told it wasn't very helpful as there are recovering porn addicts on the forum.

not sure whether it was an insult or a compliment


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## donny64

> The big mistake he made was marrying a woman who reacts this way to his watching porn. He should have never even put himself in the position of having to lie about something he's been doing since he was 12. He'd have been better off partnering with a woman who's ideas, and thoughts, on the matter weren't nearly as extreme as yours.


There it is in a nutshell. No blame here, just a mistake to marry someone in hopes they'd change. If he KNEW she was like that, and it was THAT important to him, then he shouldn't have done it. I think she's unrealistic (expectation wise) that she could find someone who wouldn't watch it to some extent and has a high sex drive, but if that's what she wants, that's what she wants, and nothing may change that short of her losing out on a lot of otherwise good guys because they do what comes fairly naturally. Or maybe taking the time to UNDERSTAND why men are like this, and just accept it (given that it actually doesn't detract from physical intimacy in the marriage).

W and I were talking about this last night. She shrugs it off and does not "get" women who have an issue with it. She understands it just as she understands why the sun is coming up tomorrow. Just as she understands that her reading "50 shades" is essentially the same thing wrapped in a more acceptable written "book package" (and she did just start reading it...holy cow, how did she get even more horny than she already naturally is?!!!!). Her understanding of this, me, my desires, herself and her desires is what makes our sex life so incredibly awesome and fulfilling. We share everything, and just that alone makes it even harder to keep our hands off each other. The best, most satisfying sex in the world is with someone who GETS you, UNDERSTANDS you and themselves, is not insecure about it because they actually do understand it, and won't judge you (or themselves) for it. Not easy to find, but when you do, you'll KNOW it. And it's bliss.


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