# "The French Are Most Forgiving Of Infidelity, Americans Not So Much: Study"



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Interesting article, with several links on the page.

The French Are Most Forgiving Of Infidelity, Americans Not So Much: Study


When it comes to extra-marital affairs, the French are the most forgiving nation in the world, according to a recent study. The U.S., however, is still as unforgiving as ever, ranking 27th on the list, right between Brazil and Ghana.

The Pew Research Center conducted a study in 2013 surveying people from 39 countries about their attitudes toward infidelity, asking the question: "Do you personally believe that married people having an affair is morally acceptable, morally unacceptable or is not a moral issue?"

France topped the list as most forgiving, with only 47 percent saying it was morally unacceptable -- a stat that is of particular interest in light of French President Francois Hollande's alleged affair with French actress Julie Gayet. (Though unmarried, Hollande has been in a relationship with Valerie Trierweiler, France's de facto first lady, since 2007.)

And while Hollande may be trying to deflect attention from his personal life, a survey conducted by the French Institute of Public Opinion highlighted by the Pew Research Center shows that 77 percent of French voters believe the affair is a private matter that only concerns the president. Twenty-three percent felt it was a matter of public concern.

So how did the rest of the world compare to France?

Germany came in second with 60 percent reporting infidelity as morally unacceptable, followed by Italy (65 percent), Spain (64 percent) and South Africa (65 percent).

The United States was 27th on the list, with 84 percent of people surveyed believing cheating on one's spouse was not acceptable. Interesting to note that other countries with similar views included: South Korea (81 percent), Brazil (84 percent), Bolivia (84 percent) and Ghana (86 percent). See the entire list here.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

*Re: "The French Are Most Forgiving Of Infidelity, Americans Not So Much: Study"*

Now put that list next to a list of countries ranked by percentage of religious followers and we might see a correlation.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

*Re: "The French Are Most Forgiving Of Infidelity, Americans Not So Much: Study"*

They make great wine and cheese though.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

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Interesting!

Big gap between the first two.

About the lack of religion being the factor: England would top the list if it were this !


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

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Theseus said:


> Interesting article, with several links on the page.
> 
> The French Are Most Forgiving Of Infidelity, Americans Not So Much: Study
> 
> ...


I'm sure in some of the African and Arab nations, it may be perfectly legal to kill the affair partner, or they may even be imprisoned or killed.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

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84 percent in US say unacceptable yet about 33 percent cheat in their marriages.

Things that make me say hmmm.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

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I am going to move to Turkey


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

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weightlifter said:


> 84 percent in US say unacceptable yet about 33 percent cheat in their marriages.
> 
> Things that make me say hmmm.


Do you not find that the result you get depends on the words you use?

Using the word 'morally acceptable' is to me a religious question,

I will say 'it's morally unacceptable' because it's like a tautology, the answer is contained in the question - 'affair'. In fact the 16% who don't recognise that the question is self-answering... well what do they think 'affair' means?

If you asked: can you "fall in love" with someone who is not your spouse, once you are married?

95% of daytime soap-opera watchers as well as men who are attracted to damsels in distress will have no problem accepting this possibility, because though it's the same actions in reality, now the intention is 'holy' and 'not my fault'.

True?

BTW the question probably didn't make sense to the French. They probably thought it meant - are you having an affair right now? To which 53% said yes, of course.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

*Re: "The French Are Most Forgiving Of Infidelity, Americans Not So Much: Study"*



Sandfly said:


> Do you not find that the result you get depends on the words you use?
> 
> Using the word 'morally acceptable' is to me a religious question,
> 
> ...


Good points, and the main question could have been asked other ways or broken down into more specific questions. It would have also been interesting to see how married/committed people responded to that question versus single and divorced people. 

I think if they asked 'Is it morally acceptable for married people to betray their spouses by having an affair?' you may see different responses because betrayal is an emotive word. The survey question was rather neutral, not loaded. 

I don't think 'morally acceptable' is necessarily a religious question, though if you are religious, you will probably look at it in religious terms. People have a basic sense of their own ethics and their culture's ethics, even if that culture is more secular than religious. The French look at the US and think it's morally reprehensible that Americans don't have social health care, since they view that as a basic human right. Affairs are less scandalous than people not receiving basic services.

_"A survey by French pollster Ifop with French newspaper Le Journal du Dimanche found that more than three-quarters of respondents saw the alleged affair as "a private matter that only concerns Francois Hollande."
Only 23% of those questioned for the survey, conducted January 10 and 11, considered it a public matter, Ifop said."_

But I can tell you the pain from affairs is the same for the French. Hearts are broken, trust is shattered, lives are broken. The French President's wife went to the hospital due to the shock. In my opinion, the French have a long way to go in their social understanding of affairs from a moral perspective, and acknowledging the destructiveness they cause.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

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Dont think it really like it.....
I am native US (upper N.Y), I travelled a lot (France, Germany, Spain and England) and now live in Italy.
I know very well those culturs and my experience is that latin's (france, spain and italy) are more focused on the meaning of FAMILY, the anglo-saxon (england, germany and USA) very less.....


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

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jack.c said:


> Dont think it really like it.....
> I am native US (upper N.Y), I travelled a lot (France, Germany, Spain and England) and now live in Italy.
> I know very well those culturs and my experience is that latin's (france, spain and italy) are more focused on the meaning of FAMILY, the anglo-saxon (england, germany and USA) very less.....


It's hard to say. I live in Europe and I agree that Spain and Italy are very family oriented in the traditional sense. As are some countries in Eastern Europe. People tend to have larger families and stick closer to them. France is family-oriented, too, but it's sort of mid-way between southern and northern europe in terms of culture, values, politics, traditions. In my experience, at least. I believe Italy has the lowest divorce rate in Europe, but that doesn't mean the infidelity rate is the lowest, right?

I think Americans are generally family oriented. There's a lot of emphasis on child development, parenting, children's safety, children's activities and 'wholesome' family fun. There's also a lot more individualism in the US, so we encourage people to 'be themselves' and strike out on their own. The Latin subgroups in the US are also very family oriented, as are the Asian ones, though generations born in the US seem to become more Americanized. 

You might agree that the idea that French people are sneaking around all the time is not true. There are a lot of misconceptions about the French. At any rate, I think the main difference with regards to infidelity is how it's treated in the public sphere and in the workplace.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

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jack.c said:


> Dont think it really like it.....
> I am native US (upper N.Y), I travelled a lot (France, Germany, Spain and England) and now live in Italy.
> I know very well those culturs and my experience is that latin's (france, spain and italy) are more focused on the meaning of FAMILY, the anglo-saxon (england, germany and USA) very less.....


You found that too? 

This is what changed my opinion about Catholicism from staunchly anti- to "OK for wives and families, tolerable". 

Families seemed to be happier in Mediterranean and Eastern European countries with some sort of guidance and ritual in life.

In spite of most of the men saying it was nonsense and expressing atheist opinions, they saw the value of it for their families.

The only remaining problem were things like Radio Maryja, where a charismatic older male figure uses his position to instil fanaticism, nationalism and anti-science prejudices in older female listeners.

But every country has these pious types, it's about how you keep a lid on them, and direct them toward being community-oriented instead of dogma-oriented.

I still don't want Catholicism to ever take over the UK, instead I would now like to see the Anglican church fight for its position against the Radio Maryja types who are coming in from the states. 

Because ... apparently some people need religion... so we should control just what sort is acceptable, rather than leaving it to chance.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

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weightlifter said:


> 84 percent in US say unacceptable yet about 33 percent cheat in their marriages.
> 
> Things that make me say hmmm.


Exactly! Imagine the amount of people that voted that it is unacceptable are cheaters themselves.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

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LOL at all the military references to the French - saw that coming!

They're lovers, not fighters?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

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My French women friends may think that affairs are private matters, but my experience was that they were just as hurt as Americans when their husbands 'stepped out.' I can't help but think that the hurt is universal.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

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treyvion said:


> I'm sure in some of the African and Arab nations, it may be perfectly legal to kill the affair partner, or they may even be imprisoned or killed.



That's a good point, but you can't really use Islamic countries as a comparison because the societal definitions are different. 

Under Islamic law (and most Muslim countries follow this convention), men can have up to four wives. So a married man seeking other partners is not necessarily being unfaithful (although he would still need to marry that extra partner before sleeping with her). Of course, women in Islamic countries don't have this option.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

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I don't think the data really supports the headline. Forgiveness and thinking something is OK really don't have anything to do with each other. I mean, if something is "morally acceptable" does that really mean it's "forgivable" or does it mean there was nothing wrong with what happened, so no NEED to forgive any way?

To me, one forgives (if one is so inclined) being WRONGED by someone. So, I think the better question is "Would you be willing to forgive a cheating spouse?" not "Is it morally acceptable to cheat?." Granted, if you ask someone who sees nothing wrong with cheating, I guess they will be inclined to agree that it is forgivable. But the results if this just say to me "Most Americans think infidelity is unacceptable; French do not."

If you asked me whether cheating is morally acceptable, and whether I could forgive a cheater, I might give 2 opposite answers, because they are different questions that do not conflict.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

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martyc47 said:


> I don't think the data really supports the headline. Forgiveness and thinking something is OK really don't have anything to do with each other. I mean, if something is "morally acceptable" does that really mean it's "forgivable" or does it mean there was nothing wrong with what happened, so no NEED to forgive any way?
> 
> To me, one forgives (if one is so inclined) being WRONGED by someone. So, I think the better question is "Would you be willing to forgive a cheating spouse?" not "Is it morally acceptable to cheat?." Granted, if you ask someone who sees nothing wrong with cheating, I guess they will be inclined to agree that it is forgivable. But the results if this just say to me "Most Americans think infidelity is unacceptable; French do not."
> 
> If you asked me whether cheating is morally acceptable, and whether I could forgive a cheater, I might give 2 opposite answers, because they are different questions that do not conflict.


Great points. 

Yeah, this survey kind of sucks. 

Is infidelity morally unacceptable? For who - one's self, one's spouse, the general public?

They should ask, "Is it acceptable to you if your partner has an affair?" and see how the numbers change.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

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manticore said:


> I am going to move to Turkey


I would strongly advise against that.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

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staystrong said:


> Great points.
> 
> Yeah, this survey kind of sucks.
> 
> ...


My exH cheated but he did not lose his friends or his job.

But a couple friends did tell me, if I stayed with a cheater, I would lose respect from a lot of people.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

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alte Dame said:


> My French women friends may think that affairs are private matters, but my experience was that they were just as hurt as Americans when their husbands 'stepped out.' I can't help but think that the hurt is universal.


And the men hurt as much when it's the wife that steps out as well... Hurt is hurt regardless of which nation! 

~sammy


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

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surprise. surprise. the world's doormats are ok with rug sweeping.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

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Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> surprise. surprise. the world's doormats are ok with rug sweeping.


You beet me to it pit. I'll just say that I would have guessed that France would be number one. No surprise here.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

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I think nobody likes infidelity. Studies that I read reveal that married couples in Europe don't go straight to divorce court after a spouse cheats like Americans. That's my simple answer.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

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I heard that in Italy as late as the '80s, couples needed to be separated for 5 years before they could divorce. That would slow things down.


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