# Starting to give up...



## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

Me and my wife were married for 2 years and had been dating for 8 months before that (I know, too fast), and have a 16 month old daughter together. On Valentine's day my wife moved out. She gave a few reasons that I never saw as being big enough reasons for leaving me. After a couple days I started to do a little snooping and found her to be talking to a phone number I didn't notice. I confronted her about this number and she admitted to it being her ex boyfriend. At first she wouldn't admit to it being anymore than her talking to a friend from the past but after little more prying I got her to admit that she has intentions of seeing this guy which in a way I feel she already has but have no substantial proof.

Anyways, she has been moved out now for about 2 months. I think she is really confused about everything going on, some days she seems like she wants to be with me and other days she talks like she despises me. I feel like this guy is just in her head and clouding any judgement she has about reconciling our marriage. She came to me a couple weeks ago crying and saying how she no longer has plans of seeing this guy after the divorce but still doesn't know what she wants to do. I asked her if she would like to start marriage counseling and she said she did. A few days later I told her I wanted her to stop talking to this guy while we are going through marriage counseling and she stated she wouldn't and she pretty much said she wants to be with him again. We were supposed to have marriage counseling yesterday but she canceled 2 days ago.

I am coming to wits end right now. I have been trying to do the 180 to the best of my ability considering we have a daughter together I can't cut her out completely. She still calls me every night and we have good conversations, never argue about anything, just talk about our days and what's going on. If we ever talk about anything regarding the marriage she just turns into a stone wall and won't talk about it. I have stopped even mentioning the other guy when we talk and our conversations have gotten very pleasent. I don't even want her back in the house right now at this point, what I want is for us to start at a clean slate and try dating eachother and see if we can rekindle something, but I don't even know how to get her to agree to a date.

Is there any advice for me, I am really just completely lost and don't know what to do anymore.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> Me and my wife were married for 2 years and had been dating for 8 months before that (I know, too fast), and have a 16 month old daughter together. On Valentine's day my wife moved out. She gave a few reasons that I never saw as being big enough reasons for leaving me. After a couple days I started to do a little snooping and found her to be talking to a phone number I didn't notice. I confronted her about this number and she admitted to it being her ex boyfriend. At first she wouldn't admit to it being anymore than her talking to a friend from the past but after little more prying I got her to admit that she has intentions of seeing this guy which in a way I feel she already has but have no substantial proof.
> 
> Anyways, she has been moved out now for about 2 months. I think she is really confused about everything going on, some days she seems like she wants to be with me and other days she talks like she despises me. I feel like this guy is just in her head and clouding any judgement she has about reconciling our marriage. She came to me a couple weeks ago crying and saying how she no longer has plans of seeing this guy after the divorce but still doesn't know what she wants to do. I asked her if she would like to start marriage counseling and she said she did. A few days later I told her I wanted her to stop talking to this guy while we are going through marriage counseling and she stated she wouldn't and she pretty much said she wants to be with him again. We were supposed to have marriage counseling yesterday but she canceled 2 days ago.
> 
> ...


Hi,

At this stage even mentioning the marriage and the other guy is counter-productive. You can't demand that she stops seeing this other guy because your marriage is at a point of breakdown and this is by definition a hostile environment, so she will do the opposite of what you ask/demand. So, my advice is: to just love her. I'm sure that sounds kinda wishy-washy to you but in my mind it is very specific. To me, love is a verb. It is something you do. If you try to understand her, work on your own issues, invest in her interests, etc, then she will begin to see you in a more positive light and only then will she be open to the possibility of dating again.

Let me know if you need more clarification. Hope my advice was helpful.

Take care


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. That is what I am currently trying is to be the caring person that is there to talk to and open up to that she thought I wasn't. I want her to feel she can come to me with all of her emotions and not have to go to another man with what she is feeling. She is battling a lot of depression right now over all of this and I have been starting to kinda hint at her she needs to get some counseling of her own.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> Thanks for the reply. That is what I am currently trying is to be the caring person that is there to talk to and open up to that she thought I wasn't. I want her to feel she can come to me with all of her emotions and not have to go to another man with what she is feeling. She is battling a lot of depression right now over all of this and I have been starting to kinda hint at her she needs to get some counseling of her own.


It is very hard to see your spouse in pain with depression. I think you are doing the right thing in hinting that she might need counseling but don't push her too hard. She has to make the decision herself. Let her know that you are concerned for her and are willing to support her in any way that she wishes.

I'd also suggest asking her to write down a list of things you can fix about yourself - this can be really hard as you will naturally get defensive but try to be humble and thankful (try writing a letter to her if you don't feel you can ask in person without getting defensive). Then go about working on the issues. If she sees improvement in you, then she is more likely to look at improving herself and stop her damaging behaviours.

Keep up the good work


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

Just to give an update on my situation right now. I haven't mentioned the other guy in a couple weeks now and we have been talking really good. For instance, the other night I was coming home from work and I usually text her to let her know when I get home and she usually calls me when I do that. Well, when I was on my way home she texted me with the message "How was your day?". Now that may not seem like much but that is the first time she has asked me how my day has been since we separated. It kinda gives me a little bit of hope that there still is a chance for us if her walls are starting to break down. 

We also have plans to go to a baseball game together next Tuesday for my birthday and also out to dinner with our daughter. I don't know if I should mention anything regarding our relationship or not. I was thinking of telling her that I feel that our marriage is broken past repair but that I also feel that we never had a chance to have a relationship before marriage and would like it if she would go on a few dates with me and not feel like I am trying to pressure her into fixing the marriage. Does this seem like a good idea? I wouldn't be asking her to get into a committed relationship with me and wouldn't ask her to stop dating OM, just to go on some dates with me and see if the feelings she might be having are something.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Until she has the OM completely out of her live you are going to waste good money on MC.
Until the influences of the OM are gone your marriage is at a stand still.
At best you can move on and distance your self. She needs to come to you and make the commitment with NC with OM. 

See all the MC and talking and "working" on things is useless. She may manage you and tell you things that make you believe there is hope, but the only hope is her commitment to NC the OM.

As long as he's still in the picture you need to NC your wife.
Most likely she's cake eating and as long as you go along with her she has the best of both world.
So do not give the options. make the choose for her. "As soon as you stop all contacting with OM I will move on with out you so please do not contact me until then...by".

This is a proven methed...hard as hell for us to do but it is proven to work. Keep reading here and you will find this to be the best for you and the best way to fight this thing.

I know it doesn't make sence to distance your self from the one person you want more then anything, but you need to distance your self.
"They want the ones they can't have" get it?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

For me I guess I found it to painful to share, but if you can deal with sharing then go and date your wife. IDK maybe for some its better then nothing.
Man why did you even both in confronting her, you could have left it alone. Never knowing about the OM. 
But now that you know you still except it...well tolorate it.

I sometimes I wonder if I should of done the same thing. Wait...I did for 13 years. Well for you its just a matter of tiem like it was for me. Sooner or later you will resent her so much you will want that change and take thoses steps that i have mentioned in my last reply.

I guess I had to reply twice b/c it hit so close to home and the things you are tolorating I too have done and it was the must misserable 13 years. 

God its nice to be happy now.

Good luck and I'm still with the crowd that says distance your self until she gives up OM completely.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

the guy I can't remember, are you with your wife?


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

That's the thing, I don't even know if the OM is out of the picture or not. I don't even want to bring it up because every time I do it brings up drama. And also I want her to think that it doesn't bother me and think that I moved on. I have been talking to another girl as well and she knows it so she definately isn't stringing me along like she has me as a backup plan. I know distancing myself from her is good, and it's not like I'm asking her every day to go hang out or anything. I'm not planning on making a move on her or anything when we go to the baseball game, just want her to go out and have a good time with me and see what she doesn't have. And there is absolutely no way that I will enter MC or back into a relationship with her until she can prove to me that she is not with the OM. I have already made it very clear to her of that and she knows it. But if I keep on telling her constantly to stop talking to OM then I'm going to come off as controlling or whatever.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

perhaps it would be a good idea on your end to stop contact for now with this other girl, until you know where you are at, because you could be getting yourself into an EA. It could happen when you are very vulnerable. Don't give your wife any ammo against you, don't put yourself in a situation where you may be tempted, trust me, it is easier than you think to go there with another person when you are broken, open, and wear your heart on your sleeve.

I haven't been tempted by other guys, but I was finding myself wanting to talk to my OM because he made me feel good, in my case we were both unfaithful, husband first, me after. I have had my friend B and sister wanting me to go out with them, I refuse to put myself in a situation where my husband can question my intentions, I won't go there ever ever ever again.


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

Yes Paramore I have only been talking to this other girl through email and have never met her. So I haven't really gotten very far with anything with her. I have kinda stopped talking to her for the most part, I email her back but they are usually short and to the point, not wanting to put myself out there too much cause I was probably to the point of EA for a little bit with her. The EA that my wife is having is with an ex boyfriend so they plenty of past which is what worries me. He's pretty much the complete opposite of me, I am a computer help desk person who drives a little foreign car with good gas mileage... he is the rough neck kinda guy that drives around in a beefed up muscle car. And in my experiences the girl always goes towards the guy with the rough neck jack ass with the muscle car and not the sweet nice guy.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> Yes Paramore I have only been talking to this other girl through email and have never met her. So I haven't really gotten very far with anything with her. I have kinda stopped talking to her for the most part, I email her back but they are usually short and to the point, not wanting to put myself out there too much cause I was probably to the point of EA for a little bit with her. The EA that my wife is having is with an ex boyfriend so they plenty of past which is what worries me. He's pretty much the complete opposite of me, I am a computer help desk person who drives a little foreign car with good gas mileage... he is the rough neck kinda guy that drives around in a beefed up muscle car. And in my experiences the girl always goes towards the guy with the rough neck jack ass with the muscle car and not the sweet nice guy.


I believe you that you are a sweet nice guy but are you truly in touch with her needs? That is what makes the difference (especially in the long run). Have you ever asked her what about you she feels needs fixing? It can be hard to hear but having that list and devoting yourself to fixing your issues can help your wife to see you in a different light.

I really feel like you need some ongoing guidance which I'm happy to help with but if you need a more professional approach try the free e-mail subscription here -> Stop Divorce .


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

She has told me a lot of the things she was unhappy with in our relationship and I have been working on them, unfortunately there are some things she is not happy about with my past that I can't really change. I have been doing some IC and it has helped a lot getting through the depression I felt initially, but now I really feel I need to do what I can to get my wife back. The only thing is I think the only way I'll be able to do that is to just cut off any communication other than what needs to be said regarding our daughter.

I have changed my plan on what to tell her at the end of the night on my birthday when we go to the baseball game. I am going to tell her that "I'm sorry that our marriage didn't work out, I am done trying to fight for you, it's just pathetic to even have to try and fight for my wife. I am not going to wait around for you like your previous boyfriends did including your new boyfriend (OM). The only way things have any miniscule shot at working again is if you cut off all contact with him and we start off from scratch dating again". 

Does that sound like a better script than what I was previously going to say?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Call a spade a spade; change the word " boyfriend " and build in the words " affair man" or something similar, she is commiting adultry do not sanction it by calling it something else, remove "dating" and adapt the sentence to include " recover our marriage"

She is going to ignor you as the pull of the OM is greater, ensure her parents and family are updated then go dark on her , if there is to be communication use an intermediary, keep away from her , change your numbers and email if you have to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

As long as that ********* is in the picture, you are never going to get a "fair deal" in a reconciliation. I know you love her, but you have to take a stand at some point, buddy.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Yes,
Just remind her that you understand her confussed feeling and won't try to take that away from her, but you need her to stop all contact with this man and since you do not want to control her you will move on for your self.
reminder she can not make a choice, but you can and you choose not to be around her while she can not commit to you.

If she can make a dicision and its with you then through validation and confirmation we then can work it out.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> She has told me a lot of the things she was unhappy with in our relationship and I have been working on them, unfortunately there are some things she is not happy about with my past that I can't really change. I have been doing some IC and it has helped a lot getting through the depression I felt initially, but now I really feel I need to do what I can to get my wife back. The only thing is I think the only way I'll be able to do that is to just cut off any communication other than what needs to be said regarding our daughter.
> 
> I have changed my plan on what to tell her at the end of the night on my birthday when we go to the baseball game. I am going to tell her that "I'm sorry that our marriage didn't work out, I am done trying to fight for you, it's just pathetic to even have to try and fight for my wife. I am not going to wait around for you like your previous boyfriends did including your new boyfriend (OM). The only way things have any miniscule shot at working again is if you cut off all contact with him and we start off from scratch dating again".
> 
> Does that sound like a better script than what I was previously going to say?


I don't think anything you say at this point in time is going to affect anything. You are giving her an ultimatum and people rarely respond well to ultimatums. As I learned from Mort Fertel, you have to try to connect with her using positive action so that she starts to see you in a new light. Any amount of words you say at this point is going to push her further away. What I learned and what really saved my marriage was to put my wife's needs first. Once I did that she gradually drifted away from the person she was having an Emotional Affair with a gave us another chance - I didn't do it with words, I learned to do it with actions.

That is what worked for me anyway


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

the guy said:


> Yes,
> Just remind her that you understand her confussed feeling and won't try to take that away from her, but you need her to stop all contact with this man and since you do not want to control her you will move on for your self.
> reminder she can not make a choice, but you can and you choose not to be around her while she can not commit to you.
> 
> If she can make a dicision and its with you then through validation and confirmation we then can work it out.


That does sound better, I hope she is able to make a choice soon, it kills me inside to know that she is with another man and there is nothing I can do about it but sit around and wait. I am really feeling like I am doing a good job of bettering myself though, for instance I have lost 20 lbs since she moved out on Valentine's Day and have done it the right way through eating right and working out a lot.



Ser Pounce-A-Lot said:


> I don't think anything you say at this point in time is going to affect anything. You are giving her an ultimatum and people rarely respond well to ultimatums. As I learned from Mort Fertel, you have to try to connect with her using positive action so that she starts to see you in a new light. Any amount of words you say at this point is going to push her further away. What I learned and what really saved my marriage was to put my wife's needs first. Once I did that she gradually drifted away from the person she was having an Emotional Affair with a gave us another chance - I didn't do it with words, I learned to do it with actions.
> 
> That is what worked for me anyway


Doesn't that kinda counter act the 180 though? I understand her seeing me as a good person and putting her needs first but doesn't it also kinda put me in the position of making her think I'm a plan B and nobody is going to leave the plan A if there is nothing going wrong with that plan.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> That does sound better, I hope she is able to make a choice soon, it kills me inside to know that she is with another man and there is nothing I can do about it but sit around and wait. I am really feeling like I am doing a good job of bettering myself though, for instance I have lost 20 lbs since she moved out on Valentine's Day and have done it the right way through eating right and working out a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't that kinda counter act the 180 though? I understand her seeing me as a good person and putting her needs first but doesn't it also kinda put me in the position of making her think I'm a plan B and nobody is going to leave the plan A if there is nothing going wrong with that plan.


Good question to be asking. I was asking myself the same question. What I learned was that if I truly became a phenomenal husband I would become the Plan A. Sure, right now her Plan A is the other guy but I can almost guarentee that that relationship will end. Why? Because as Marriage Fitness taught me: "That relationship is planted in dirty soil. And things planted in dirty soil do not grow well." And it was right. After a few months my wife started having problems with the other person and because I had been consistently loving her and caring towards her she suddenly realized that I was Plan A all along, she was just doing mental gymnastics to convince herself that the other person was Plan A. But that person could only give her momentary satisfaction (a few months or so) what I was offering was lifetime, endless love - and it would have to be wouldn't it? If I was willing to forgive this horrible betrayal of trust what wouldn't I do for her? And trust me, if she comes to that realization after you have been this wonderful, selfless husband all along she will beg for forgiveness and see the errors of her ways. For me it was an extremely emotional reunion and to be able to forgive her and see the joy in her eyes was an amazing feeling.

So, I can totally understand the Plan A/Plan B mentality. I hope I was able to answer the question satisfactorily.


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

But the question is how do I get her to start letting me in like that. For example, I talked about how I talk to her every night when I get home from work and every morning before I go to work on the phone. But the thing is when I talk to her she just really seems very emotionally distant, I'll sit there talking her head off and she'll just seem to give me one word answers like all she is thinking is I can't wait to get off this phone to talk to OM or she's upset she had to get off the phone with OM to talk to me. Now I'm not a mind reader by any imagination but it just seems like she is not emotionally there when I talk to her on the phone. If we sit there in silence for more than 30 seconds she wants to hop off the phone so it's not like I can shut up and maybe she'll start talking.


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## NeedingPeace (Apr 25, 2011)

It sounds like she is keeping you as a backup, whether you want to admit it or not... she won't even talk about the relationship? That's not a good sign, in my opinion, neither is keeping the other guy in the picture. Don't let her make you feel bad because she committed adultery... I'm new to this whole thing (recently a new victim), but we're trying to move on and I've noticed I feel bad if I mention anything about it - but the truth is, having an affair is a BIG deal and we shouldn't have to treat it lightly. If she doesn't want to acknowledge that she's handling things wrong and doesn't want to move on, there's not a whole lot you can do to make her. Just my 2 cents.


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

NeedingPeace said:


> It sounds like she is keeping you as a backup, whether you want to admit it or not... she won't even talk about the relationship? That's not a good sign, in my opinion, neither is keeping the other guy in the picture. Don't let her make you feel bad because she committed adultery... I'm new to this whole thing (recently a new victim), but we're trying to move on and I've noticed I feel bad if I mention anything about it - but the truth is, having an affair is a BIG deal and we shouldn't have to treat it lightly. If she doesn't want to acknowledge that she's handling things wrong and doesn't want to move on, there's not a whole lot you can do to make her. Just my 2 cents.


I know, it's definately a sticky situation I am in right now, and she has not admitted once yet to cheating. All she say's is that she is talking to him about regular stuff and nothing major yet they exchange pictures? She did tell me she plans on dating him after the divorce is final but has not seen him yet. Now I can trust what she say's there about as far as I can throw it. The closest thing to admitting what she has done is saying that both of us went about things the wrong way with the whole break up. Which I am still trying to figure out how I went about things wrong, she acted like everything was fine for the last year, broke up with me over text message, and is talking to another guy, that's still a little bit confusing.


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## Ser Pounce-A-Lot (Apr 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> But the question is how do I get her to start letting me in like that. For example, I talked about how I talk to her every night when I get home from work and every morning before I go to work on the phone. But the thing is when I talk to her she just really seems very emotionally distant, I'll sit there talking her head off and she'll just seem to give me one word answers like all she is thinking is I can't wait to get off this phone to talk to OM or she's upset she had to get off the phone with OM to talk to me. Now I'm not a mind reader by any imagination but it just seems like she is not emotionally there when I talk to her on the phone. If we sit there in silence for more than 30 seconds she wants to hop off the phone so it's not like I can shut up and maybe she'll start talking.


Hmmm....what do you talk to her about? When I was in marriage trouble and I was having similar problems, Mort Fertel suggested that I try talking about her interests. By showing a consistent genuine interest in what was going on in her life, in what hobbies she liked, she started to become interested in what I was talking to her about. Emotionally she is not there at the moment and a key for me was to stop expecting her to be. She was detached and that was beyond my control but I could show her how 'attached' I was to her & her interests and in time (a few months) she started to see me in a new light and reciprocated all the effort I had been putting in to understanding her & her interests.

I hope that makes sense. That was my experience. The Marriage Fitness program taught me all that and it amazingly worked and turned my situation around.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

No! No! No! No!

DO NOT give her more attention! DO NOT try to fill her needs! This will just make you look needy in her eyes. Clingy and needy. You know what she is thinking if you do this? "Wow! I am having an affair, and my husband just keeps telling me how much he loves me and is showering me with attention! How Fkd up is that? That is just so pathetic, weak, and spineless! What a turn off!"

Do do this...
Move on. She moved out. Grow some nuts. Ignore her as much as you can, being you may be sharing custody. Let her know that you are a man, and that if she wants to be with that pr$ck of a boyfriend she left you for...then go right ahead! Go date. Let her know this, too. Tell her since she has no intention of coming back anytime soon, you now plan on dating other women. For some reason, DSes seem to think that the are the only ones that get to see others. 

Why are you doing this? Because you need to demonstrate to her that you DO have balls. That you ARE a man. And you don't take lightly to her treating you like a doormat. And you are NOT in any way whatsoever ever someone's second choice! Then, start working on yourself. Do manly things. Hang out with your guy friends. Get some testosterone back in your veins. It's healthy.

you would be surprised how your wife starts treating you with respect when she realizes you deserve it....and demand it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Exactly what alphaomega said. You need to do the hard 180. You need to understand this: You CANNOT compete with the OM right now because *YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH A FANTASY*. She is still deep in the affair and while she is in the affair, the OM is her world.

Trying to meet her needs and trying to be a better husband is only looked upon as being *NEEDY and WEAK*. She will not even notice at this point. At this point in her mind, you are the back up plan, the second stringer. You are no ones back up plan.

You must totally go NC with her except for E-MAILS about finances or kids. No phone conversations about marriage or anything. No texts. Keep it strictly e-mail to protect yourself, and to keep yourself from getting weak.

Find out if her boyfriend has a spouse or girlfriend. You must expose the affair to his betrayed spouse. This is one of the fastest ways of killing the affair. Then you will have another set of eyes on them. Do not worry about hurting the betrayed wife or girlfriend, her man already did that to her. 

Then you must be the one to file for D. IF she comes out of the fog, it will only be because she realizes what she is about to lose. Right now your are in LIMBO and she is SITTING ON THE FENCE. You have to knock her off of that fence. And begging, and pleading, and stroking her ego, and being weak and needy, and trying to compete with her fantasy are not going to do it. You can file for D and and cancel it later if she decides to come out of the fog and be totally remorseful for what she has done. 

If you don't do this, you will continue to be in LIMBO and just be content to share your wife with this man.


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

So as an update here... We ended up not going to the baseball game Tuesday or even going out to dinner Tuesday with our daughter. This is because Monday night she started talking about if the game was going to be canceled because of some bad weather here. So I asked her if she would like to do something else if the game does get canceled. Well then she told me that she doesn't feel comfortable around me alone and doesn't know if she wants to go. So usually when I get home I text her and let her know when I get home so she can call me and we can talk for a little bit. Well that night I didn't text her and she started blowing up my phone calling and I wouldn't answer until she text me saying she was getting worried about me because it was raining out. So I decided to answer the phone and I told her I am tired of all this back and forth sh*t with she wants to work on things then doesn't. 

Well our fight on the phone got pretty nasty for a bit until we finally calmed down and talked things out. She told me some interesting things but I'm not sure how much of it I can believe... she said that she is not going to date OM after the divorce or ever, she said she's been feeling like I have where some times feeling like you don't want anything to do with the other and then other times feeling like you can't imagine going another minute without them. So after things calmed down we decided to hit bed for the night and hung up the phone. Well next day comes and I tell her I don't want her to go to the game with me if all she's gonna do is be miserable. I think right now a major issue is that there is 0% trust on either, I don't trust her that she hasn't been with this guy or has feelings for him and she has 0% trust that I hadn't done the things in my past that she originally gave as the reason for leaving me.

I still feel like things can work but it can't work until there is some trust built up between each of us and that's going to take a long time. I also talked to her on the phone yesterday and I asked her how set she is on divorce right now because our required separation time is up at the end of this month. She stated that she is not hurrying into anything right now and didn't really give a reason, I think she is really confused about things which may be from me doing the 180 and her realizing maybe I am a good person.



> Do do this...
> Move on. She moved out. Grow some nuts. Ignore her as much as you can, being you may be sharing custody. Let her know that you are a man, and that if she wants to be with that pr$ck of a boyfriend she left you for...then go right ahead! Go date. Let her know this, too. Tell her since she has no intention of coming back anytime soon, you now plan on dating other women. For some reason, DSes seem to think that the are the only ones that get to see others.


She already kinda has a feeling that I have been talking to someone else. Granted the person she thinks I'm talking to isn't who I'm talking to. But there is a couple girls that are interested in me including my high school sweetheart which I think is kinda funny in a way since OM is a high school sweetheart. Now the girls I am talking to though I am not getting really serious with until I have hard evidence that there is something going on between her and OM. Because otherwise if there is nothing going on and all she is doing is talking and then I am going out and dating somebody I am going to be the bad guy. But I have done anything but beg her to come back, I've mostly thrown out the idea of going out on a date here and there and when she turns me down I act like it doesn't even bother me.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Quite a few things I want to say about your situation, which is similar to many others. In summary, your wife wants to have her cake and eat it too.



brokenheart1682 said:


> So I asked her if she would like to do something else if the game does get canceled. Well then she told me that she doesn't feel comfortable around me alone and doesn't know if she wants to go.


Notice how she's stringing you along here? That your attempts to reach out to her are rebuffed? Is she claiming that you're going to hit her or something? Afraid to be with you alone? What kind of BS is that? 



brokenheart1682 said:


> So usually when I get home I text her and let her know when I get home so she can call me and we can talk for a little bit. Well that night I didn't text her and she started blowing up my phone calling and I wouldn't answer until she text me saying she was getting worried about me because it was raining out.


See when you show that you're not so available to her, she starts chasing you? She wants to keep stringing you along in case her fantasy with OM goes south. This is typical cake-eating behavior. You are simply the back up, the second stringer.



brokenheart1682 said:


> So I decided to answer the phone and I told her I am tired of all this back and forth sh*t with she wants to work on things then doesn't.


You need to stop playing her game. You don't have to put up with this sh!t. Tell her that you will no longer put up with her sitting on the fence. Tell her you will only communicate with her via email, and that will only be for finances and the child.




brokenheart1682 said:


> she said that she is not going to date OM after the divorce or ever,


Don't believe that for a second. She's seeing OM right now. If only you could read what typical cheaters say in their OM/OW forums. She is DEEP in the affair, and she wants to keep you on hook while she is with OM. If OM is married, she's waiting to see if OM will leave his wife/girlfriend. Once OM leaves his partner, she will then drop you like a bad habit.



brokenheart1682 said:


> I don't trust her that she hasn't been with this guy or has feelings for him and she has 0% trust that I hadn't done the things in my past that she originally gave as the reason for leaving me.


Re-writing the marital history is typical for cheaters, they have to in order to justify in their mind the reasons for their affair. She had definitely been with this guy if she has moved out. And its probably far worse than you can imagine. Do you want to stand for this? Do you want to continue to share your wife? Of course not! 



brokenheart1682 said:


> I also talked to her on the phone yesterday and I asked her how set she is on divorce right now because our required separation time is up at the end of this month. She stated that she is not hurrying into anything right now and didn't really give a reason, I think she is really confused about things which may be from me doing the 180 and her realizing maybe I am a good person.


Of course she isn't in a hurry. She's cake eating. She has her affair with OM, while keeping you as a back up. Do you see that now? You need to fight for your marriage now, and that means the hard 180. The moment you disengage and are not so available to her and not pursuing her, she starts chasing you and blowing up your phone. It's time to draw the line in the sand and knock her off that fence. Her cake eating needs to come to an end. I know you don't like living in LIMBO. 



brokenheart1682 said:


> She already kinda has a feeling that I have been talking to someone else.


It's part of her re-writing the marital history and blame shifting. That way she can justify to herself her reason for cheating. By accusing you of cheating, it makes her feel better about herself.



brokenheart1682 said:


> But there is a couple girls that are interested in me including my high school sweetheart which I think is kinda funny in a way since OM is a high school sweetheart.


Now I understand whats going on. She is chasing her high school fantasy. This is happening more and more often. Like I said previously, you cannot compete with a fantasy, no matter how charming you are and how much you pursue her, so don't. Stop chasing her! Now you need to do a little investigative work and find out if OM is married, most likely he is, or he has a steady girlfriend. You need to out this affair to his wife/girlfriend. And do not tell her that you are going to do so, she will only alert OM, and he will just spin a story to his wife.



brokenheart1682 said:


> But I have done anything but beg her to come back, I've mostly thrown out the idea of going out on a date here and there and when she turns me down I act like it doesn't even bother me.


You need to file for divorce as soon as possible, you can cancel it or stop the process if you reconcile with her. Exposing the affair to the other betrayed spouse and filing for D is your only hope of brining her out of the fog. Just be aware that some cheaters never come out of the fog. If she doesn't, then the marriage is broken anyway and you have to let her go. She will find out that the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence. You will find someone else who will not spit on her marital vows. 

At least you will know in your heart that you fought for your marriage. You need to do this now. Knock her off that fence! Do the hard 180! Communicate via email only and only about finances and the child! Expose the affair! Start filing for divorce. These are your options because she has already left the marital home. Stop being the back up! Stop living in limbo!


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## liteheaded (May 5, 2011)

Wow! This sounds alot lime my story! Almost to a T! Minus how long I let it go on. She's got issues that has been sitting on ALONG time now. Prob more issues that you've never even heard about. They just puked all over you two. She has no grasp of what she's doing. Ok she knows, but she sounds like she doesn't have any control over herself right now. Ask yourself if this is the same girl you married? I **** you not, I just delt with this EXACT scenario! Get the papers, fill them out and put the ball in her court. As horrible and painful that step was for me, it changed things. One, I was ready to be done with her and she knew it. Two, it changes perspectives. Now you aren't the husband trying to win her over again, you're the caring person that you are, helping her sort her stuff out. Mine wasn't the same person I married and wanted to help her go through whatever she was going through. With the papers on the table. The coldness left her after pretty much forcing her to talk to me. It's not meant to be a game. Don't take it like that, you have to be willing and ready to pull the trigger. As much as I love and care for my wife, I will walk on the first sign of shadiness. You have to too. You don't deserve this. Stand up and TELL, don't ask her how it's gonna go down and follow through. The game STOPS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"DO NOT give her more attention! DO NOT try to fill her needs!"

Sorry to have to tell you this, but you are her doormat right now. You have to stick to the 180, no matter how hard it is. To me, it seems she's already checked-out.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> So as an update here... We ended up not going to the baseball game Tuesday or even going out to dinner Tuesday with our daughter. This is because Monday night she started talking about if the game was going to be canceled because of some bad weather here. So I asked her if she would like to do something else if the game does get canceled. Well then she told me that she doesn't feel comfortable around me alone and doesn't know if she wants to go. So usually when I get home I text her and let her know when I get home so she can call me and we can talk for a little bit. Well that night I didn't text her and she started blowing up my phone calling and I wouldn't answer until she text me saying she was getting worried about me because it was raining out. So I decided to answer the phone and I told her I am tired of all this back and forth sh*t with she wants to work on things then doesn't.
> 
> Well our fight on the phone got pretty nasty for a bit until we finally calmed down and talked things out. She told me some interesting things but I'm not sure how much of it I can believe... she said that she is not going to date OM after the divorce or ever, she said she's been feeling like I have where some times feeling like you don't want anything to do with the other and then other times feeling like you can't imagine going another minute without them. So after things calmed down we decided to hit bed for the night and hung up the phone. Well next day comes and I tell her I don't want her to go to the game with me if all she's gonna do is be miserable. I think right now a major issue is that there is 0% trust on either, I don't trust her that she hasn't been with this guy or has feelings for him and she has 0% trust that I hadn't done the things in my past that she originally gave as the reason for leaving me.
> 
> ...


Dude, you are talking to her WAY TOO MUCH! You need to understand that getting her to talk about the relationship is not going to solve anything. You're always available to her and scared not to be. WRONG! Let her chase you!


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

Not sure why, but I thought I had already stated that I have filed for divorce. It has already gone through the attorney and been filed with the courts. We actually met with the attorney on our anniversary which I found to be kinda weird.

Anyways, to update everyone on the situation as it stands right now. I am starting to get to the point that I don't really care if I win her back or not, I don't really feel that there is a need to ruin a friendship between us and turn things bad for our daughter. I also don't see the necessity in fighting for my wife from OM, if that's the path she wants to take then so be it, I will go my separate way and find someone 100 times better than any guy she is with. I understand the 180 works, but I also believe it is playing mental games and if she comes back to me I don't want it to be because I played a mind trick on her to get her back. I just don't have any fight left in me at this point, I feel that stopping all communication with the woman I love and the mother of my child is not worth it if it is going to put me on the brink of suicide. I don't know what my next step is anymore, I try the 180 and it works but I also get depressed intensely because I miss her and then I talk to her and we talk really good until it get's to the point I feel it's time to ask her out and she all of a sudden doesn't want anything to do with me. I think it's just time to lay my deck down and call it a game.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

brokenheart1682,

You misunderstand the purpose of the 180. It is not a trick or mind game to win your WW back, but an empowerment tool to help YOU move on with your life with or without her. Yes there are many cases when the WS panics and pleads to be given another chance but that is just a side effect.

Because of your daughter, you cannot stop contact with your STBXW. You must develop a civil relationship with her and view her as nothing more than the mother of your child. Your child needs to have a father and a mother that can peacefully cooperate with one another so that she can grow up in a happy and healthy environment as possible.

Your STBXW does not deserve a man like you. There is more than a good chance that what she did to you, the OM will do to her. OM will probably grow tired of her and dump her a** to the curve for another woman. On the other hand, you will find a real woman who truly values you and the concept of marriage.

You will make it, never doubt that.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You believe the 180 is about playing mental games? Some kind of mind trick? It's none of that.

Then you have entirely the WRONG IDEA about what it is. morituri said it's about empowering yourself and helping you get stronger and detach. No one here said to stop all communication with her. According to the 180, you must be calm and courteous to her. BUT it IS about not being so available to her and being at her beck and call, which is exactly what you are doing. You are not doing the 180 at all.

You are still pursuing her, trying to talk her into going on a date with you. And you just said yourself the moment you try to ask her on a date, all of a sudden she doesn't want anything to do with you. Then you change your mind and don't want to fight for her.

You're on the emotional roller coaster, one moment you miss her so badly you are pursuing her, the next moment you say you can find someone 100 times better. To get off the roller coaster, you need to do the 180. Whatever you've been doing so far sure isn't the 180. 

Your cheating wife keeps shooting you down. How much longer are you going to put up with being a doormat? Stop trying to talk her into dates! It just makes you look pathetic and needy in her eyes. That's why she doesn't want anything to do with you.


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

morituri said:


> brokenheart1682,
> 
> You misunderstand the purpose of the 180. It is not a trick or mind game to win your WW back, but an empowerment tool to help YOU move on with your life with or without her. Yes there are many cases when the WS panics and pleads to be given another chance but that is just a side effect.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply, I've been pretty down about everything going on recently. I think the main thing I need to do is just not even try to do anything drastic like asking her out. I have told her that the ball is in her court and if she wants to try reconciliation she is going to have to ask me out, I'm not going to keep on hounding her asking for a date. But I am going to continue to keep contact, in fact I gave her a necklace for mother's day that she loved, she was still thanking me for it today and it was hard not trying to take advantage of her appreciation for that necklace and turn it into a "see how nice I am? wanna go out?" type of thing. I think just forgiving her for the mistake she made and moving on is the best thing I can do, I can't live the rest of my life with her in it regardless if it is married or not resenting her, that'll end up affecting a relationship with her or a relationship with anyone for that matter. I feel I just need some time to cool off and really not try anything drastic like dating or anything because I can't commit to anyone right now anyways because my trust level with any female is just about at zero right now. If she were to ask me out on a date right now I probably would go, if she were to ask me to move back in and go back to being a married couple I would tell her no.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I would tell her just what you said " We're through, and to be very frank, I will wager the caliber of women that I will be seeing will totally eclipse the kind of guy you end up with". Tell her! Do not call her every night. Do not be her friend. keep it to the kids and finances. You know why she hasn't turned around? She hasn't had to. She gets emotional support and security from you, without any investment on her side. Dump her. You could find much better.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Lord mayhem and alpha- i know aplha reconciled. Lord Mayhem - you?
How long did it take? Broken heart - follow your gut. Relationships end more often because of separation and being kicked to the curb than when do no harm is the rule between both.


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> I would tell her just what you said " We're through, and to be very frank, I will wager the caliber of women that I will be seeing will totally eclipse the kind of guy you end up with". Tell her! Do not call her every night. Do not be her friend. keep it to the kids and finances. You know why she hasn't turned around? She hasn't had to. She gets emotional support and security from you, without any investment on her side. Dump her. You could find much better.


There is no point in holding a grudge against the mother of my child unless I am trying to win her back. All that is going to do is cause emotional damage to her because she is going to wonder why daddy and mommy don't get along and will think negatively of both of us. I know a lot of people just want to start sh*t with the woman that is leaving, but what does it really resolve for the little girl that has to be in between all of it?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> Lord mayhem and alpha- i know aplha reconciled. Lord Mayhem - you?
> How long did it take? Broken heart - follow your gut. Relationships end more often because of separation and being kicked to the curb than when do no harm is the rule between both.


My first marriage ended when my first wife cheated on me. She NEVER came out of the fog. She left and never looked back, and we divorced. I had promised myself if I ever married again and the next wife cheated, I would divorce no questions asked. 

Yet here I am in my second marriage and I'm in R after my second wife's EA. And the ONLY reason I'm giving her a shot at R is because for one, she's entirely remorseful, completely transparent, and is the one doing the hard work of reconciliation. The other reason is because it never had a chance to go PA due to the distance involved and the fact that he would have to come down from Canada to my state.

I'm 11 months out from DDay and it's still hard even though she has done everything I asked of her. Just like everyone else, immediately after DDay I was a mess, I did everything wrong, including begging, pleading, crying, pursuing. Then I had an epiphany and realized this is complete BS. This is my second time around. I found my anger much quicker because of this, and it gave me the strength and resolve to do the 180. *I put divorce on the table*. I love this woman with all my heart and she is the mother of my children, and I have invested 21 years of marriage, BUT I am willing to walk away and pull the divorce trigger again, and she KNOWS that.

It's not about holding grudges. It's about being *FIRM and RESOLUTE*. Far too many men are afraid simply because the wife is the mother of their children. That's BS. Any woman can be the mother of your children. Your children will always be your children.

So I am in R and approaching the 1st antiversary next month. Yet divorce is still an option. I've always let her know that if she feels like she can't continue to do the work, she is free to walk out that door. It will mean financial devastation, home foreclosure, bankruptcy, etc. But I am willing to pull that trigger. If it happens, it happens, and I will continue to be the best father I can be no matter what. I know I will survive. She knows she can't use the threat of losing the children against me. *I am not afraid. I have respect for myself.*

Because I'm not afraid and I have respect for myself, who is the one that is always talking about having date nights? Who is the one always planning our family vacations? Who is the one that is always comforting me when I trigger? Who is the one always apologizing? Who is the one that is transparent and accountable for their whereabouts? Who is the one always following the other around? Who is the one that is always calling the other? I'll give you a guess, and it isn't me. Is it easy? Nope. But trust is being rebuilt very slowly, and I still do trigger occasionally. I'm finding that I have to monitor less and less these days because I do see genuine change.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Lrd Mayhem "Then you must be the one to file for D." Really, did you do that? I agree he needs to be resolute in his needs and boundaries. This kind of scare tactic is hurtful. He is not being weak and needy. Do you think telling someone what they ened to do based on yourself is wise. You don't know all the facts of his situation. My first rule is DO NO HARM. That includes threats. Treat her as you would want to be treated. Things will progress much faster in R and you won't force her into a position of fear or pulling away becasue she doesn't think your serious about R. Get your balls if you need them back. That's your problem.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> Lrd Mayhem "Then you must be the one to file for D." Really, did you do that? I agree he needs to be resolute in his needs and boundaries. This kind of scare tactic is hurtful. He is not being weak and needy. Do you think telling someone what they need to do based on yourself is wise. You don't know all the facts of his situation. My first rule is DO NO HARM. That includes threats. Treat her as you would want to be treated. Things will progress much faster in R and you won't force her into a position of fear or pulling away becasue she doesn't think your serious about R. Get your balls if you need them back. That's your problem.


Can we have a little more respect for differing POV?

Wouldn't it be wiser if instead of addressing this to lordmayhem you address it directly to brokenheart1682?


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes Morituri it would. I'm just getting real tired of the negative direction being given to people that does nothing to help calm the victim down and make reasonable decisions. Throw the ***** out, kick her to the curb, divorce the worthless ****.....on and on. People ask if it's possible to reconcile and get over it - this does not help. Same with man up - let me attack your manhood while I'm at it. All very supportive and positive don't you think? If I had follwed half of the advice thrown at me, my wife would hate me and I'd be divorced.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

8yearscheating said:


> Lrd Mayhem "Then you must be the one to file for D." Really, did you do that?


I didn't need to do that beacause MY wife didn't move out! She is remorseful and is doing the hard work of R. His wife HAS MOVED OUT and is unremorseful.



8yearscheating said:


> I agree he needs to be resolute in his needs and boundaries. This kind of scare tactic is hurtful. He is not being weak and needy.


How is begging and pleading and asking for dates NOT being weak and needy? He is chasing her and that is contrary to the 180.



8yearscheating said:


> Do you think telling someone what they ened to do based on yourself is wise.


This is based on the experiences of not only the people on this board but other boards that deal with infidelity. By your reasoning, then would it be wise for you to give advice based on your experience?



8yearscheating said:


> You don't know all the facts of his situation.


And neither do you.



8yearscheating said:


> My first rule is DO NO HARM. That includes threats.


She already did harm to the marriage by cheating. She is DESTROYING THE MARRIAGE. You have to be ready to leave the marriage if you want to save it.

*Besides, the point is moot since he has already filed for D.*



8yearscheating said:


> Treat her as you would want to be treated.


And what has that gotten him? He is accomodating her and all she does is push him away!



8yearscheating said:


> Things will progress much faster in R and you won't force her into a position of fear or pulling away becasue she doesn't think your serious about R. Get your balls if you need them back. That's your problem.


First of all, she is in no way shape or form even near ready for R. She has moved out, and she is still deep in the fog of the affair. You cannot even attempt to R when the A is still ongoing.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Your wife confesses to a PA, and you buy her a diamond necklace... Wow

8years cheating, this one's for you - 

GROW A PAIR. Accept the fact the Pro180 points of view are going to post on this forum whether you like it or not.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I can tell you a true 180 works beautifully. I did one and now my wife can watch all of the TV she wants, she can come to bed without having to tak to me, and I can go out with my friends whenever I want without her caring where I've been. For her, it's as good as me leaving her without actually having to leave her. She's happy as a pig in crap.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

OK all you man - up up grow a pair - here's your chance. I created a new thread in the men's club house called manning up should not be abuse. Take your shot there and not here hijacking broken heart's thread. For the record, brokenheart, I believe in 180 and you can read that threads introduction to see what I don't like about the piling on questioning your manhood.


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## brokenheart1682 (Apr 10, 2011)

Been a while since I've been here, looks like I got a lot of messages to respond to lol.



8yearscheating said:


> Yes Morituri it would. I'm just getting real tired of the negative direction being given to people that does nothing to help calm the victim down and make reasonable decisions. Throw the ***** out, kick her to the curb, divorce the worthless ****.....on and on. People ask if it's possible to reconcile and get over it - this does not help. Same with man up - let me attack your manhood while I'm at it. All very supportive and positive don't you think? If I had follwed half of the advice thrown at me, my wife would hate me and I'd be divorced.


I do agree, there is a lot of the attacks on people but I think a lot of the reason people on here do it is because the person that is going through this really needs that kick in the @$$. I know when I first got on here with this thread I was thinking I had everything figured out and I really don't.



lordmayhem said:


> I didn't need to do that beacause MY wife didn't move out! She is remorseful and is doing the hard work of R. His wife HAS MOVED OUT and is unremorseful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right, she is nowhere close to R right now and I'm starting to lean away towards it as well as I will explain at the end of this post.



The 13th_Floor said:


> Your wife confesses to a PA, and you buy her a diamond necklace... Wow
> 
> 8years cheating, this one's for you -
> 
> GROW A PAIR. Accept the fact the Pro180 points of view are going to post on this forum whether you like it or not.


Not sure exactly where you got the idea that her necklace was diamond. Definately was just a sterling silver necklace with a picture of our daughter in the locket and cost me a whopping $80. And she has NOT admitted to an EA or a PA, it is only an obvious EA at this point but no proof of a PA.



MrK said:


> I can tell you a true 180 works beautifully. I did one and now my wife can watch all of the TV she wants, she can come to bed without having to tak to me, and I can go out with my friends whenever I want without her caring where I've been. For her, it's as good as me leaving her without actually having to leave her. She's happy as a pig in crap.


Not sure that I would exactly be happy with that situation where me and my wife would never talk but I get where you are going that you are happy with what you have.

----------------------------------------------------

Anyways to give an update on the situation as it stands. The other night we had a long talk about things and where we stand right now. She kept on insisting that she needs time and doesn't think she is getting any time to think about things because she is living wiht her parents right now and is moving into an apartment at the end of this month and thinks that will begin giving her time to think. I pretty much went with it that night and kinda tried pushing her to get into some IC which she just said she would think about which we all know what that means. 

Well the next day I told her that I can't stop thinking about whatever is happening with her and OM and it is killing any chance of R between us. She didn't respond to that message. I sent her a text later that night stating to not worry about giving me a call which I sent around 9:30pm. 12:30am comes and I get a text message from her stating "Why did u not want me to call u tonite, what did i do". I responded back "Im just tryin to give us some space to let us think about things... ive got a lot of things to work out as do u". Then this morning came and I pretty much told her I want to maintain space between each other until she decides to drop OM. Now I know the ramifications of this because she most likely will not drop OM and this means the end is very near for us. I just hope I am able to be strong through this and keep it like this because I know she is going to call me up in a few days saying how she has no intentions of doing anything with OM but will refuse to stop talking to him, I need to be strong and say "Sorry, we can't talk about this until you drop OM". I am just really scared I am going to give in and we will be back to the same situation we have been for the last month of not making any progress.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Here's what I did when I found myself in your present situation. I told my wife I couldn't continue living with her or talking to her so long as she was still in contact. My imagination led me to believe the worst and I couldn't keep going that way. I didn't want separation, I wanted to R. But she was leaving me no choice. I told her it was either NC or a separation with her moving out. I also told her separation meant she still paid 1/2 of the mortgage, house expenses and child support and it did not mean I was paying for apartment - not even 1/2. ALl income and accounts like Credit cards and banks and online accounts would be separated. It also meant all extracirricular activities for our daughter had to cease because neither of us could afford to fix the house up for eventual sale and deal with all of the additional expenses of separation while maintain the same lifestyle and extracirricular costs. I put a time limit of 3-6 months dependent on her continued behavior before I would file for D. Once she saw the paper work for separation and we had hard discussions about D, she decided to try and work things out and started NC. This is not manning up, it's a practical approach to dragging the WS out of the fog. I have maintained those boundaries and we are working through the pain of the A very well. I don't buy cutting off all contact. There is nothing to keep her facing the mess she created if you do. Communication also stops completely along with any positive discussions. I do agree you don't argue or banter back and forth or plead. If it's going no where, stop talking.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> Anyways to give an update on the situation as it stands. The other night we had a long talk about things and where we stand right now. She kept on insisting that she needs time and doesn't think she is getting any time to think about things because she is living wiht her parents right now and is moving into an apartment at the end of this month and thinks that will begin giving her time to think. I pretty much went with it that night and kinda tried pushing her to get into some IC which she just said she would think about which we all know what that means.
> 
> Well the next day I told her that I can't stop thinking about whatever is happening with her and OM and it is killing any chance of R between us. She didn't respond to that message. I sent her a text later that night stating to not worry about giving me a call which I sent around 9:30pm. 12:30am comes and I get a text message from her stating "Why did u not want me to call u tonite, what did i do". I responded back "Im just tryin to give us some space to let us think about things... ive got a lot of things to work out as do u". Then this morning came and I pretty much told her I want to maintain space between each other until she decides to drop OM. Now I know the ramifications of this because she most likely will not drop OM and this means the end is very near for us. I just hope I am able to be strong through this and keep it like this because I know she is going to call me up in a few days saying how she has no intentions of doing anything with OM but will refuse to stop talking to him, I need to be strong and say "Sorry, we can't talk about this until you drop OM". I am just really scared I am going to give in and we will be back to the same situation we have been for the last month of not making any progress.


In Affairspeak, the situation you are in right now is called *LIMBO*. When you are in limbo, the WS is still in the A and/or is unremorseful, but there are no moves toward D. You are stuck in the middle. The A is still ongoing, no doubt about that. Yet she keeps engaging you enough to keep you hoping for R. She is cake eating right now, enjoying her A with the OM, while keeping you as her back up. She pretty much outright refuses to end the A with the OM.

How long you choose to be in limbo is up to you. If you're feeling scared about giving in, think of it this way. To her, you are the back up, you are the second stringer sitting on the bench while OM is the starter and enjoying the sex and love from your wife that rightfully belongs to you. She has no guilt about choosing him over you, which is what it really boils down to. 

Man up! Stick with your boundaries. She MUST end it with the OM and be remorseful, or else there can be no R. You must also be prepared to lose her because in many instances, they *NEVER* come out of the affair fog. I know my first wife never did, and she never looked back, even with divorce staring her right in the face. If you lose her and she never comes out of the fog, then that just means that the marriage was not meant to be. You cannot make her love you or choose you over the OM. Whatever happens, whether you R or D, you will come out a better man for this because you've learned some hard lessons about affairs.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

brokenheart1682 said:


> I do agree, there is a lot of the attacks on people but I think a lot of the reason people on here do it is because the person that is going through this really needs that kick in the @$$. I know when I first got on here with this thread I was thinking I had everything figured out and I really don't.


Sometimes we all need the 2x4s to snap us out of the shock that we are in after discovery of the A. The written splash of cold water on the face to get us out of the funk/daze, and keep out of wallowing in self pity and hopelessness. 

People DO NOT give out the 2x4s out of meanness or spite or to hurt the new people. They do it because the care because they have been there done that. I wish in the early days after DDay, that I had found a support group about dealing with Affairs. I wished someone had given me 2x4s to wake me up. Instead, I had to find out on my own. I'm glad you understand where I and others are coming from when we give advice.

You will come out of this better than before, I know it doesnt feel like it now, but you will.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

I will also throw the other side back at you. There are people who have held on far longer than you and reconciled and are very happy. You are still in shock and should strongly consider what YOU want, not what everyone here suggests. You know your wife and situation better than any of us can ever hope to understand. The script your wife is playing is common and sometimes does change. Do your gut and heart check, set your boundaries and decide what YOU want.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

On the 180 and manning up, can i suggest you read the thread Manning up should not be abuse! in the men's club. You will see my opinion and others without us hijacking your thread to debate it.


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