# Eat, Sleep, Breath, My kids come first.



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

I'll Start by saying I've lurked and read the forums for some time now for a situation that happened some time ago that I'm sure will make it into the story line. Anyway, I respect the fact that you guys are brutally honest and sincere, and right now I need that.

To give you an idea about how our relationship. We met when I was 26, her 21. We are not married but engaged. I was in a full time band touring and recording records and focusing solely on music. My previous disaster relationship ended a year and a half before that and when that was over I told my self I wasn't going to date or even talk to anyone. It was work on me time and better my life.

Well, my cousin had been bugging me to meet one of her friends. I finally relented and they came to a show when we were playing near town and I fell in love that moment. She said she did too. I only had a week or so left on that tour and once I got home we were inseparable. We were heading into the studio so I was home for a while and I just felt like life had finally completed itself. 

Fast forward 6 months and we take a vacation to the keys, come back and she misses her period. Boom, pregnant. I don't know what happen. She said she was on the pill and we used protection. Anyway, We are actually happy, scared out of our minds but happy. We moved in a few months later and things were coming together. I got a normal day job to bring in some more income and then we had a healthy baby girl.

Life was really perfect for a while. But then it hit me, I was working more and playing music less. Less Shows, Less Records, Less Money. I wanted to do the right thing for my family and I didn't think that music was going to provide what I wanted for them. As the grind continued I defiantly became resentful about not touring and playing shows anymore. And instead of owning those feelings and being an adult I did a horrible thing. I was offered a percicet(sp.?) and instantly felt like everything was hole again. I had always been so against opioids because of what i had seen it do to so many of my friends. Well, 1 is to many and 1,000 is never enough. I hurt her and let her down so so bad during that time. But, in that time I managed to stay sober for some semi long bouts and life was good again, bad again, good again. For anyone who knows what thats like you get the picture. At one point we had talked about having another kid for some time because we wanted our kids to be close in age so our dumb ass's got pregnant again on semi-accident/purpose. 

I look back and I actually think that she got pregnant again on purpose because she was supposedly taking her BC and we were not actively talking about getting pregnant. In a skewed way she had one time made a comment thinking having another kid would help keep me in recovery, Wrong. The second pregnancy was so incredibly difficult for her. It changed her. She truly has never been the same person since then. It was truly the worse 9 months for both of us. And that was followed by another 9 months of some Post-Pardum depression that she refused to get help for and beat me to a pulp emotionally. That was such a hard time for both of us. It's difficult already to raise a young family but when the "adults" have zero communication skills and each refuse to extend the olive branch first, well Im sure you can realize the destructive behavior that ensued. That continued until my bottom was hit and Ive stayed on the recovery path the best I can. I don't use, but recovery is more then just not using. I feel as if if I would been more constant in putting in my recovery work I could have seen this coming. 

Well, we separated for about 4 months not really knowing what was going to happen. We had small talks of getting back together but the anger was so strong and she was very unwilling to forgive me. I understood and stuck it out and continued to work on me. She had a lot of anger and resentment towards me, and me to her. Eventually we worked it out and gave it another shot and here we are now. Obviously there is more to the story and I will get into it if you feel need to help guid me in my future steps. Though I will freely admit that I caused 90% of the issues and honestly deserved what has happen to me.

So now, We moved into a house a year ago after about 9 months of being great. She had to have the house with 3 bedrooms regardless of cost and we really did need the space for kids but we signed a 2 year lease and now at about a month or so ago things got real tuff... Im a sound engineer for the IA and work ridiculous hours during season. Average of 70 to 90 easily for 9 months or so, then 3 months off for summer. Definatly not a good business to be in for a family man. There are some weeks were its not that ruff and I have holidays off and i do have time but not nearly enough.

Anyway, Things had started getting distant between us noticeably a month or so ago. I had been slowing up from work and catching up on sleep and house hold duties. Ive done everything that I said I was going to do, but i guess it wasn't enough. I was digging in deep and helping doing all the things i can't because of work. Waking up with the kids, breakfast, dentist, everything that she needed help with. But, I could just tell something was up. So I wanted to patch the loose ends up and enjoy a great summer. I literally had plans to make up and show her how much I appreciate how much she does for us and the kids, planned a vacation back to the keys, Out to dinner, all the things she likes. I had already been in deep thought about cutting back on work to be there more for her and the kids. Take a couple less calls and be able to help more with the grind. I had been working on being a more compassionate parent, and really trying to make some changes I knew I needed to make. 

Well, that upset her. She didn't want me to help with the house work, or go to the doctors or dentist or really be around. She just kept pushing me a way no matter what. So we had a deep heavy talk and it came out that she was just tired of this, that she didn't think she wanted it anymore and the the relationship might be to damaged to fix. I'm thinking did it really get that bad? I bust my hump to support our family and help in every way I can. At one point I asked if there was someone else and she said no, I just decided that I had had enough and she was upset at first and then happy for her future. It blew me away, I had heard this before but this time seemed different. 

So, I just said there is no reason to make any illogical decisions and lets get some counseling and figure out whats best. During that week we spent a lot of time together with the kids, went everywhere did everything but when I would try and get close she was just kind of life less. I had read this forum for a while now and knew I needed to look into something( this kinda happened before but nothing this extreme and Ill get into that later) so i checked phones, texts, everything. Reclaimed all her deleted everything and nothing. All clean, looked for burner phone I mean spotless. The only thing I could think about was that she usually gets home at 10:30-11 most nights and she had been not getting home till midnight or after. That stuck in the back of my head. But, I just figured maybe she had really checked out with out someone else lined up and I was in trouble. So, for the rest of the week I just kept working on me and doing whats right not kissing her ass in the slightest, just loving my time with my kids. 

So later that week I tried to get close to her and she stopped me and just said she wasn't ready yet(totally didn't want to cheat on other dude,lol How Ironic) but then asked if I wanted to talk about it. I said fine, so she basically burst into tears crying hysterically saying that she thought I was F'ing with her and why am I doing all these things she knows how I feel and that she thinks Im manipulating her into staying. I was shocked. I just said that I loved her and that everyone has their ups and downs and Im trying to work us back up. She kept crying and saying sorry and that its not to late she just needs some time and she's working to get her feelings back. Thats when I kinda knew something was up. 

I started to put pieces together and she was following the script to a t just no paper trail. Thats when I realized that something was going on with someone at work and they had refrained from texting at all because durning the separation i had found out some thing I didn't want to know because i went through her phone and she remembered. She kept it secret and safe. The last time was no affair, no more then some petty crap and I caught it right off the bat(ill go into that story if i need to, Im so tired of typing) and made her do everything this site says to do and she did with out question. We moved on but in the back of my head I knew something was up now.

So, I got out of work early on a show and scooted down to her work with a dozen roses and was going to see if she wanted to go get a drink and bring some spontaneous back into our lives.Well, I saw her walk out the door by herself and I was like "THANK F'ING GOD" but right after I saw the door open again and some sloppy heavy weight ******** walk after her and grab her hand. I Backed off so they couldn't see me and watched them jump up looking over the car to see if anyone was looking which made them miss me standing right infant of them and they hugged and kissed and then he left for home. In that instant I was ready for war, but in that same instant I felt the most over whelming peace and the realization she isn't worth it.

I didn't say a word that night, I wanted to see if maybe I had caught the first kiss and if she was sorry or what the look was on her face. Well, it was the same look as the last month. Like nothing was going on. So I thought abut how I wanted to bring it up and I thought a letter would be the best way so i didn't have to be angry infant of her. I left the roses and letter on her passenger side chair before she went to work the next day. I got calls and so so sorry and please call me's but I knew she was just sorry she got caught so I enjoyed the day wth my kids. When I got home later she was there sad asking if we could talk and I just said no, not right now. I jumped in the shower and went to our first band practice in 6 years. It felt great, I really haven't been killed by this. Don't get me wrong it hurts like hell but now I really know who she is. I feel so bad for my kids. Later that night we wound up talking and I didn't really listen to a word she said. She was already asking about arrangements and I said your 3 steps ahead of me right now, Im still processing this. But, Ill tell you what Im doing. Im staying right here in my comfy house and Im not uprooting the kids because your so concerned about being happy(which is all she really talked about is how she's unhappy and just wants to be happy). Neither of us can afford this place on our own(I can but would always be close on money)and my work really makes things tuff for me so I said i don't want to hurt the kids, if you want out your out and off the hook find a place and go... She wasn't expecting that I don't think, I really think she wants me to freak the hell out and go nuts and beg and then just leave. But, she not getting one tear or one bit of anger towards her. She is not worth it.

Im sorry this is a tuff read and I don't really know what Im looking for. I can't pretend Im not hurt but I feel like i deserved every bit of this. Im so scared for my kids and what happens next. There is lots I have left out and Im sorry for that but right now I have been just focusing on making my kids feel like nothing is wrong and keeping busy. Gym in the am, reading this forum, implemented the 180 so i can detach. Ive literally been super cool and wished her the best and that she finds the happiness she is looking for. I need help, what do I do??????

SOS


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

And we share a mac at the moment and her iMessages is logged on and next thing i see is all these text between them literally starting last night. They are "swooning" over each other. Man, I get stuck with bills and all the hard stuff and raising a family and trying to do whats right and she's in lala land finding her happiness. lol I mean does she really think that this is going to work out for her? The fog is strong now. 

Im just so grossed out


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

(Didn't read all that, but let's be honest... there's probably no need.)

I'd say divorce, but you're not married. So I guess break up...?

Either way, just let her go to him.

Hell, _tell_ her to go to him.

Ideally she'll pull her head out of her ass, cut the bull****, and commit herself to her children and her relationship w/ their father, but you can't exactly make her do that. Hell, you can't MAKE her do anything.

Want what's best for your kids? Split _amicably_. That's the best that _you_ can do for your kids.

Start detaching. Stop pursuing. Read up on and implement the 180. Make it clear to her that you're not going to be her Plan B, fallback position, backup, or soft landing.

Also, DNA the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

If you can stand living with her then just do you and treat her like a room mate. Gradually start saving your money and get her out of your finances. Sooner of later you will need to drop this chick. You aren't married so there can't be a divorce but there will be issues with your kids. If I were you I'd stop sleeping in the same bed as her and just start doing your own thing. You share a computer with her which is a mistake but if I were you I would start going out on your own and meeting new people. Why is she the only person who can have fun.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sometimes life just sucks!

What do you think you want to do? fix your relationship or split? Do you even know at this point?


You need to gather some solid evidence on the affair. Get copies of all the text/emails/etc that you can find. Keep the copies in a safe place.

You can put a VAR (voice activated recorder) hidden in her car to see if you capture her talking to him (secure it in place using adhesive backed Velcro.

Go to her work and get photos of her kissing the creep.

You will need all that because like all cheaters, she will deny the affair. She'll probably deny no matter what evidence you have. But with the evidence, at least you will have what you need to know that you are not crazy when she tells you that you are.

Do not say a word to her until you have enough strong evidence to prove the affair. Then do not confront her until you have a solid plan. We can help you make one here if you want.

For now, she's in an affair, from here on out, until the affair is over interact with her according to the 180 (see link below in the signature block.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

niceguy28 said:


> If you can stand living with her then just do you and treat her like a room mate. Gradually start saving your money and get her out of your finances. Sooner of later you will need to drop this chick. You aren't married so there can't be a divorce but there will be issues with your kids. If I were you I'd stop sleeping in the same bed as her and just start doing your own thing. *You share a computer with her which is a mistake* but if I were you I would start going out on your own and meeting new people. Why is she the only person who can have fun.


Yep.

If it's _your_ computer, OP, back up all of her data, move it all to a flash drive or external hard drive, give that to her, and then remove any and all remnants of her presence from the computer. (I might go so far as backing up your data as well and then installing a fresh copy of OS X/macOS.)

If it's hers, do the same, but in reverse. Be sure to _securely_ delete your data after backing it up.

And if you don't have your own iTunes/iCloud account, it's time to get one. If the current account is yours, change the password so that she can't use it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry you are going thru this. Sounds like you are handling pretty good. Just keep taking care of you and the kids. Yall will be just fine. You can show your kids how a man handles business.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Sometimes life just sucks!
> 
> What do you think you want to do? fix your relationship or split? Do you even know at this point?
> 
> ...


Well, given that they aren't married, I think he has plenty of evidence. In fact, I think he mentioned that she even admitted it, but I may be wrong. 

OP, take care of yourself and take care of your kids. Coparent with her, but break up immediately. No more shared computer and she needs to find new accommodations immediately.


----------



## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Show her arse the door as soon as you can live on your own!

Meanwhile, separate finances and you are now roomates. It's all half and half baby. Discuss how the kids will be handled and seek advice from a professional about child support for your kids.

You are going to have to find a cheaper place and probably break the lease if she decides to go live with lover dude. Either way, prepare yourself for co parenting with her. This has run its course.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Yes, she admitted. Cant deny what I saw with my own two eyes. Besides that I need no other proof. Don't really care. She didn't deny, this was her out. She is a heartless coward who had to leave a path of irreparable destruction instead of just leaving. She had to do this to make it so bad that Id loose it. Well, I didn't and she won't get that from me. She made her bed, she sleeps in it. Reality always sets in when the bills need to be paid and it's dinner time, and I know Ill be on the better side of it. 

The 180 is in full effect from the very start. It's actually pretty easy considering I want nothing more to do with her. I would have went completely dark if it was not for the kids. The sooner I can detach and distance myself from her the better off I am. I'm at a point where I pray to the lord almighty that she never realizes her mistake and she runs with this. 

I'm trying to work some financial things out to where i can just pay off the rest of the year rent, kick her ass out next week and get her to agree to a payment of sort. At one point when she said she didn't want this I know deep down in her heart she wouldn't mind letting the kids go and not having much responsibility with them. Unfortunately she will still have to be the one to bring them to school when the time comes. Cross that bridge later.

I knew something was up at our little girls birthday party 2 weeks ago to, I could feel eyes burning threw my skin and I couldn't figure out why she invited some of her coworkers. Now I realize she has been demonizing me and I guess rewriting history as they say. Answers always come in time.

I cant say I don't love her. I love her with all my heart. I just can't flip a switch and let that go. But what makes it easier is the fact that I know she dose not love nor want to be with me and that is not a fight I will fight.

For some reason i've been uncomfortable my whole life so Im kind of used to the feeling of jumping out of my skin, I just never had 2 little ones depending on me during those intense times. Well, I am going to show my son what a man does in times like these. I just don't know how to comfort my daughter once this puss lump pimple of situation comes to a head.

I still don't know why these things happen...I do think that every thing happens for a reason though. I hope time gives me that reason.

Thanks for listening...
SOS


----------



## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I wish you nothing but the best for the future. I wont offer you any advice as it seems you have a pretty good grip on things.

Stay strong. You are right. The fog will clear and she will most likely come crawling back. Or at least try too.

It sounds like you are better off without her all round, financially, emotionally etc.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

I have a couple questions about the 180.

1. She keeps doing random things like hanging my laundry and then blurts it out. I want to say go F your self, but instead I just say thank you and walk away... Correct?

2. I dont engage in absolute any conversation, she attempts to ask questions about random things we once liked. I try and keep the answer super short and then I change gears and go make sure my kids are ok. Correct? I shouldn't be conversation at all right?

3. I guess I don't know where that fine line of being cold is... Happy and contempt but not cold. Any examples? 

Im trying not to falter. My life and my kids lives are to precious to be dragged down by this. 

How long does that pit of anxiety in your stomach after you wake up last? My goes away after a few min when I remind myself that I didn't deserve this and I am going to turn crisis into opportunity. But, it still hurts like hell.

And I realize this shouldn't matter, it really shouldn't. But, is there any chance she is the slightest bit angry at herself for doing this? More then likely angry she got caught before she had all her apparent ducks totally in a row. But, geese, how the hell do people act like this? 

And Im sure Im not the only person to think something is wrong with me, I always thought woman traded up? Ive read that so many times before... Im totally in shape, have a great career, make more then twice as much as her and her new dude, (waitress and waiter). Good looking, get hit on all the time, even by some of the big wigs in the music world. (This guy is 150lbs over wait and in a dead end job that likes to race crappy street cars) And please, I am not conceded in anyway. I take great pride in being humble and grateful for what I have. Im just so hard trying to figure out why couldn't I have been good enough?


Again, thanks for listening. I can already tell today is going to be a hard day.

Standing Tall
SOS


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my friend. You should forget about her because she cares so little about you. I dont see any love there from her part to be honest. 

I dont know about your laws but I really hope you dont have to pay for that big House. 
Spend time with your kids. They are going to need you. 

Stay strong.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

I really hope this gets easier. 

And I know it does because Ive read so many of the stories on this site. If I can continue to detach and focus on the well being on my kids and grow as an individual I can come out of this on top.

I tell myself it doesn't matter one bit all the crap she's talked about me. I tell myself the only good thing that has come from us are those 2 beautiful kids. I know I will never treat a single soul the way I have been treated. I am hopeful of the future, I just wish the future was now.

At the moment we are living like roommates. I take the kids when I can and she dose the same. But when Im here I try and make it not known. She apparently finds pleasure in shutting the door so hard at 2am I wake up and now know she's home. And for tonight for dinner she wants to make shep pie?????? "Does that sound good?" she says????? 

Are you kidding me??? 

Has stuff like this happened to any of you before? Like she's upset that I just don't give a crap? 

Sticking to the 180, and trying my hardest to act like this isn't killing me. Every step I take is a step further from her.

SOS


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

StuckonStuck said:


> I really hope this gets easier.
> 
> And I know it does because Ive read so many of the stories on this site. If I can continue to detach and focus on the well being on my kids and grow as an individual I can come out of this on top.
> 
> ...


A BS should do the 180 for themselves......to detach and emotionally prepare to move on.

But why does it so often bother the WS, and even in some cases make them come back and ask for another chance?

IMO it is because to them the 180 feels like a cold and utter rejection....and this is something they are NOT used to getting from their BS.

And rejection often hurts, even to a cheater.

For example in your case, you have always showed your WW love and care....h*ll, you were bringing her flowers to her work when you busted her.

And now?

That is entirely gone.....no pursuing.....no affection.....no interaction.

She is upset because she is feeling your disdain and rejection....and it bothers her because she has always had those things before.

I think a lot of cheaters have this bullsh*t mental fantasy that their BS will remain friends with them after the dust settles.....they will then be able to keep the parts of their BS they still want and have a use for while also enjoying their new love.

The 180 blows that mirage up.....and the WS sees that they will lose everything to do with their BS, and the previous love and care will be replaced with disdain and coldness.

And that bothers most WS intensely....hence the rudeness and attempts to engage you.

Even if she only gets an angry reaction, it would tell her she still had SOME connection to or hold over you.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Dyokemm

Thank you for that. Very insightful. Actually, it gave me a bit of comfort.

I do understand the 180 isn't to punish anyone. I really am using that list of rules so that I can disconnect on an emotional level so that my decisions I make are logical and in the interest of my kids and my self.

I feel this overwhelming need to shield them from this any way I can. They don't deserve to be put on the back burner so she can get that happiness she so wants. How can someone proclaim that their whole life is their kids and then shatter their very foundation? It is just insanity to me. I played the powerball last night as some fantasy I could win and just run away with the kids and let her have exactly what she wants. I look at it now that I typed that and what a sad thought.

Im exhausted and haven't been able to eat much. I can already see I'm loosing valuable weight. I'm slim so I need to eat constantly to keep my weight on. Huh....

Is it normal to feel like all I want to do is take a nap? If I sit down for even a min I start closing my eyes so I stay on the go.

I just keep reminding myself I don't deserve this and that everything happens for a reason. Everything happens for a reason.(I hope).

Emotionally Drained,
SOS


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It is normal to feel tired.  It is a bit of situational depression. 

Try protein or nutrient shakes; they can help you at least get some form of nutrition.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Thound said:


> Sorry you are going thru this. Sounds like you are handling pretty good. Just keep taking care of you and the kids. Yall will be just fine. You can show your kids how a man handles business.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




This statement is engraved in my mind. 

Thank you for this...

And Gus,

Your absolutely right in your first message. There is nothing you wrote that is anything but the best advice available.
I took care of the mac, It is mine so I just wiped it fresh. Its a Audio Editing Station so I just quickly reinstalled everything and now have no way of peeping in on anything. All that will do is twist the dagger deeper.

Thanks for your strait forward approach. I need that. 

And everyone else who has given words of advice or encouragement. Thank you, I never thought Id have to reach out to strangers on the internet for support. 

And Im lucky my band wanted to jump right back to where we left off as much as I did. Music is such a great release. There is something extremely therapeutic about putting pen to paper and dislodging my thoughts from my mind. It's almost like once I do that I don't have to think about it any more.

And maybe its just that Im in a manic stat right now, But did any of you have these waves of despair only to be followed by intense good and hopeful feelings? I just wish that good hopeful feelings would last and the despair just disappear.

And as a strait question. Dinner is quickly approaching. Do I just pretend I have other plans and say thank you or do I tuff it out and try and give my kids some decent last memories? Im really confused what to do.

Thanks, 
SOS


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Find other plans. 

"Wife, I am not okay with giving our children the illusion that everything is alright."


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Find other plans.
> 
> "Wife, I am not okay with giving our children the illusion that everything is alright."



Perfect.... 

Thank you.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Farsidejunky,

Thank you, worked like a charm. 

I just don't get it. It seemed like she was already putting out feelers tonight. Did I watch Game of Thrones?? A call to see if we have corn? Then asked about 4th of July plans and how she's probably not welcomed at my parents house any more. And when I told her I wouldn't create a false illusion to the kids she stepped out side to cry. I mean really? Text me from the grocery store "do we need ice cream?" 
I never answered any of the text nor picked up the call, If it's not about the kids we don't need to discuss it.

I felt like she is trying to play some kind of game.

Then I get home and she wants to talk, she is moving out in August and wants to talk about what to split. I told her she can have the bed and her kitchen table. The only two things she ever bought. The rest I did or we split and she seemed very concerned not to walk out with nothing. It was her who decided to walk out on us not me. She doesn't get to pick what we split. She tried to say that this was between her and I and has nothing to do with the kids, blah blah blah. I said nothing leaves this house but those things and a few of the kids toys obviously... I made it perfectly F'ing clear that these kids will be affected for years to come, the last thing I'm going to do is take away their home. I also made it very clear that we are not friends, that anything that ever was and use to be isn't so much as even an afterthought and our entire future consist of nothing more then coparenting for the next 16 years. Am I wrong in thinking that when you cheat, your not just cheating on your partner but the family as a whole? Its like she thinks she only did this to me and only me. Idk 

Im in a downward spin fall right now. I was just literally feeling like I could do this and now another gut punch. Obviously I knew this was going to have to be discussed and happen but ********. I'm trying my hardest to keep cool. I didn't loose my temper, just spoke sternly. 


How does it go from Crying and ice-cream to Im moving out in august and want what I want?

This sick twisted part of me wants her to own up, fall to her knees and beg like a dog. The better part of me hopes she just keeps this little bit of pride she has going long enough to leave before that happens.

What the hell do I do? Am I doing the right thing? My kids come first. It's just now I feel like they are going to be stuck in the middle of this and have to watch their mother self destruct. Her parents did it to her and now I need to do everything to avoid history repeating itself. 

Lord help me make the right choices. 
SOS


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Don't be so stingy with "stuff". Stuff is replaceable. If it makes this process more cordial, great. 

You cannot stop her from self destructing. 

You are not doing the wrong thing.

Keep up the 180. All verbal communications with her should be CFD (cool, firm, dispassionate).

Also, Google the Karpman Drama Triangle. Read each one, and tell me how it relates to the things your wife is pulling right now. When you have knowledge, you recognize disordered behavior quickly. The middle of that triangle is known as 50K feet. That is where you want to be.

Honest question:

What happens when (please note I said _when_) she comes crawling back, begging, with snot bubbles in the middle of a heaving cry; what will you do?

Think long and hard before answering that because when it happens, you need to know what you want and be healthy enough to make that choice. 

180, 180, 180.

ETA: Eat, sleep, exercise; no alcohol. That is the only way to deal with the emotions of this. Embrace the pain; the sooner you stop avoiding it, the sooner you begin to heal. Sorry, brother.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

StuckonStuck said:


> I know I will never treat a single soul the way I have been treated.


You feel she betrayed you with the affair. She surely felt betrayed by your drug use, and your likely emotional neglect of her.

Women often cheat because of emotional neglect by their partners. I think you could save your marriage, and your kids' home life, by humbling yourself and trying to understand why she did this, and specifically how you contributed to her vulnerability.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> You feel she betrayed you with the affair. She surely felt betrayed by your drug use, and your likely emotional neglect of her.
> 
> Women often cheat because of emotional neglect by their partners. I think you could save your marriage, and your kids' home life, by humbling yourself and trying to understand why she did this, and specifically how you contributed to her vulnerability.


There is something to be said for taking a hard look at these two areas, SOS. Could it have contributed to her feeling isolated from you? Absolutely. It will serve you well to know these things if/when you move forward to your next relationship

However, it does not excuse her having an affair. She made her choices, and if cheating is a deal-breaker for you, then she will have to live with the consequence of losing you as a result of said choices.

Would it hurt to apologize for any neglect you may have caused? At this point, the answer is likely yes. When someone is knee deep in an affair, they are often justifying their choice to cheat by painting the betrayed as a monster, neglectful, etc. in order for the wayward to actually live with themselves for their actions; cognitive dissonance. As long as cognitive dissonance is happening, and there is no sign of true remorse, apologizing runs the risk of reinforcing their often misguided justifications.

Conversely, you may want to apologize to assuage your own conscience, or because you feel remorseful. If you choose to go down this road, you _must_ make sure you are doing so without expecting anything from her. Many betrayed spouses think an apology will magically snap their waywards out of the fog with an apology. If you choose to do this, it must be for _her_, not for you. Also, make sure you do this in-person. Never give someone something in writing that can be later used to hurt you.

My recommendation would be to stick to the 180, work on being a better man, find your principles and center yourself upon them, and prepare to part ways. However, only you know what you can or cannot live with, brother.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think this can be fixed. You both disappointed each other. You can re-inspire each other.

Whatever emotional needs the other guy is filling can be filled by you. That would bring her back.


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

OP, you are doing great. Keep the focus on the kids and co-parenting. 

You are owning your part of the issues....don't fall back into drugs tho. Make sure you have a good support system. NA if necessary. 

Her cheating is either a character flaw, or proof that the relationship is FUBAR.... or both. No reason to try to make amends, or to try to figure her out. Just splitting in the most amicable manner is your best bet. 

And ya....furnishings are just stuff. Look around, figure out which items you really don't care about..... offer her those. (I know when my ex left, I was happy to get rid of the bedroom set and make that space my own.) You could even go so far as to start weeding out things...like stacking things that you are happy to get rid of (that lamp you never cared for, etc...) out in the garage. Tell her to choose from that pile, because otherwise its going to charity. This can be cathartic....making the space "Mine" instead of "ours". 

Take down pictures of her, just box them up. Hang a nice one in the kids room. You can give her the pics, and box some up for the kids as they get older.

Hang in there...it gets better. And easier.


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

OP quick question. Was she begging you to get married sooner? You guys have two kids and are just engaged. I'm wondering if that could have had something to do with it. As far as what you need to do is concerned, if you are at the point where you cannot stand her and you know that that feeling won't go away then you have to let her go. Your kids will be much worse off if you hate their mother and still live with her. They are still young so they will readily adapt to the change. It will suck but they will be fine if you all split. Your wife has proven to you that she has no problem cheating on you and her family. She's slept with another man behind your back and betrayed you. That is hard to come back from. As for your stuff, let it go and just split stuff down the middle so that you can be done with her. The sooner she can leave the better off you'll be.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

I still can't quite figure out how to multi quote yet... So if this is messy I apologize in advance. Plus, Im trying to type this fast because I have a IC appointment at noon. 

Farsidejunky,

Thank you. Truly. You are right. "Stuff is replaceable". I was just speaking from a place of fear and anger and I will be less stingy when that discussion comes again. The better this goes, the better off I will be.

And I know I can't control anyone. They will make the decisions they make. I had to go down that path and it didn't matter what was said to me, I was going to do what I wanted to do. 

Man, the Karpman Drama Triangle. That is food for thought. I will consider that my homework for the time being. It is deep with self reflect and a wonderful tool for understanding the situation I am in and the dynamics of our entire relationship. Ill have to come back with my outline after I've put some hours into some self discovery.

For your honest Question. It scares meet even think that is a possibility. I think this is a deal breaker for me. When we were separated we both flirted with the possibility of other people. She was a bit more successful then I was and it stung me to my core. When we got back together I had set my boundaries and this was one of them. We promised we would communicate better about when we were feeling low and well, obviously we both failed at that. 
Clearly I need to do some real digging with in myself. I need to be prepared for this to be over. Honestly, I am so scared of the scenario you have described. I am not healthy enough to even prepare to answer that. 

180, 180, 180, absolutely understood.


jld,

Your absolutely right. I completely betrayed her with my drug use. And that is a thought and guilt that I truly have lived with every day. In fact, it was a huge reason I let her beat me emotionally and verbally. For a long time I felt like it was the only thing I deserved. And sadly, I still feel like this is just the outcome of my betrayal to her. For a long time we worked hard together and I was living my amends to her showing her that I would for the rest of my life make up for the pain and betrayal I caused. But, I make mistakes. We would get comfortable and we would ease off the work we were putting in. And I know thats when we (I) should have dug in and worked even harder. And again you are right. I was not meeting a lot of her emotional needs. These last 3 years I have worked an average of 80-90 hours a week, 9 months a year. And then for summer I try and make it as easy on her as I can. After all she's the one who has to wake up with the kids, take them to school, babysitters. And I put that time in because its the financial freedom I thought my family needs. I didn't want a situation to ever come up where we thought, "we can't afford this" or "we can't do this for our kids". I think in a way I knew I could have cut back, because I am starting to realize that my family needed me and my time more then something that at the end of the day, really didn't matter. Yet, I can't help but feel, wrong or right, that raising a young family is no doubt a difficult thing. And during those times of stress and difficulty it is ourselves who should meet our needs and understand that life itself is an ebb and flow. That at the end of the day if we can't trust our family, who can we trust? Ourselves?

Half my life I have been running away from the pressures at home. Running away was not the answer. I know I can get into specifics of how I created this vulnerability with in our structure. And I will once I really think about this. 

Right now my focus really needs to be becoming a better man. Learning how to fulfill myself and my children. Accepting that no matter which outcome or what life throws at me. I will be ok.

And, you might be right, this i guess could be fixed. We have re-inspired each other many times. In fact I think being able to re-inspire your spouse is a large part of a long lasting happiness. But, I don't think I could ever feel safe again. I don't want to have to know where she is or what she's doing or why she's late or not answering. All the things that come with this **** scenario is not a life I can live right now, or maybe ever. I know lots have said that and have been right where I am at this very second, and strangely that gives me comfort. I also know I just need to take one step at a time and correct my issues fully before I even attempt to try and help anyone else. 

In the past I have always made a corrective action when it was time to react to a situation. I made my decision to correct my short comings before I found out about any of this. This time it sticks. This time its for me. 

SOS


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

jld said:


> You feel she betrayed you with the affair. She surely felt betrayed by your drug use, and your likely emotional neglect of her.
> 
> Women often cheat because of emotional neglect by their partners.


This is often true



jld said:


> I think you could save your marriage, and your kids' home life, by humbling yourself and trying to understand why she did this, and specifically how you contributed to her vulnerability.


This is complete horse$hit. Do this and she has every excuse she needs to leave and blame everything on you. Not only that, but she will lose whatever remaining respect for you she has.

I am not saying that it isn't key to figure out your contribution to the problems in your relationship. It is very important to delve deep into it and fix what you need to fix with you.

If you follow the process that FSJ has laid out and continue with the 180, the chances are very good that she will come back to you wondering what she can do to make this up to you and get back together, snot bubbles and all. Until then carry on the way you are. It will serve you well.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Changes never stick when they are for someone else.

Your deal breaker does not sound like a deal breaker and that is okay. Respond to only what you want in this, not others.

That said, I need to know both what you want, and your wife's actions, in order to best advise you. Please keep posting on both.

Lastly, some of the drama triangle models do not show the sweet spot in the middle. This is what a very wise poster, since banned, used to call 50K feet. From 50K feet, you see everything strategically; you do not respond to her role in one of the corners by taking another role, and instead respond with indifference.

Remember the suggestion I gave about dinner? It stated a boundary in a non-confrontational manner; cool, firm and dispassionate. It kept you from being the victim, rescuer and persecutor; that is what it feels like at 50K feet.

50K is where you want to be at all times.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Tron said:


> This is often true
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me further add this. She is already showing signs of cracking. She feels guilt, but not remorse...for now. She KNOWS she is screwing up.

Wrap your noodle around this, SOS: she knows she is screwing up. She likely does not respect herself for her actions. Imagine for a moment you pine for her, chase her, tell her this is all or mostly your fault, then you will likely kill any remaining respect she has for you. 

Why? Because anyone who would do those things for a person that she knows to be making such low character decisions (herself) is not worth respecting.

It is not conscious. It is ingrained into our psyche.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OP, your kids are going to suffer from the divorce. Please take that into account when thinking about whether or not you should try to reconcile.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

They are not even married.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

They are living like it. And it is going to feel like it for the kids.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

StuckonStuck said:


> Farsidejunky,
> 
> Thank you, worked like a charm.
> 
> ...


She's trying to nice you to put your guard down. She doesn't want to be perceived as the bad guy. So if she's being civil and you're being cold she can justify in her head, that why I'm doing this.

The "this doesn't have anything to do with the kids" is commonly said by wayward spouses. But the truth is that when you betray your spouse, you're also betraying the family. Women in particular try to separate the spousal betrayal from family betrayal. 

Right now this girl is in a fog. If this POS is like most, he's not looking to start a "family" with a cheating woman with another man's kids but that won't stop her from getting all the pieces in place to try to make it happen. 

August is around the corner. DO NOT BEG HER. She is not worthy. You can wait for it to crash and burn and be her plan b if you want. Better option is to fight full custody so she can play happy wh0re. 
You want to protect your kids from having to be around string of "boyfriends." Once these WWs world explode and their plan b is not in place, you will see her do what so many divorcees do.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

SunnyT,

Thanks, I’ve actually still have a strong support system. And I still go to NA meetings weekly. It’s what has kept me going strong this far. Im not afraid to admit my mistakes or ask for help when I need it. 

Ive also went as far as to tell my BA and Union brothers and sisters. If any one is familiar with that type of family, then you are familiar with what type of strength they can give. I don’t know if that was a good idea or not. I try and be as honest and transparent as I can.

I love your idea about the furnishings. That will absolutely be implemented. I could use that opportunity as a healing tool.

I’ve immersed myself into my children like never before. I find my strength in them.

niceguy,

At times I knew she wanted to so badly. Especially recently, her best friend just got married in November of last year and I could tell it was eating at her. The main reason we never actually continued with the marriage is I think at points and time we thought what was the point? I mean look at where we are at. Plus, I don’t think either of us felt very safe. Our history just made me feel like when times got tuff she would run. And I was right. We always had a hard time when we argued because while I really wanted to fix the issue at hand her anger would close her up and she would cut off all communication. 

Honestly I think this is something I need to really think about. I need to list my reasons of why I felt unsafe and what was holding me back from moving forward. I think some of it was that was it, once it was official it just scared the **** out of me. I know that has been a deep hurt for her, but i thought because she hadn’t talked about it in so long maybe she was just at the same point I was. Or maybe it was because she was sitting on some other dudes D that made her feel better? lol… IDK 

I haven’t really discussed her anger issues. And I think issues is putting it nicely. I think once I type that out I will really see who she is.

jld,

I feel like your saying its my fault she cheated. And yes, divorce (which is i suppose what you could call this BREAK UP) does hurt the children. But what kind of parent would I be if I didn’t show them what self respect is? I want them to understand that we must first be happy and love ourselves. And that it is not ok to trample over and destroy everything for a moment of self gratification. When they come of age and understand what has happen they will look back and be proud that their father was a man that had boundaries, love, self respect and morals and wasn’t a PLAN B push over who should have just been happy with what he is allowed to have. Her needs weren’t being met is no excuse to go swallow ****. I couldn’t tell you how many times I was gone for days on end with every opportunity to be unfaithful to her. My needs weren’t being met and I didn’t pursue. Because what I wanted was her. And I was willing to wait out the long days just to be by her side. My love for her was unconditional. I thought I was doing the right thing. I would day dream about being with her and holding her when I was on a 70hour stretch. When I stood back and looked and my family there was no man luckier, ever. Thats how I felt. She didn’t. So Im not sure I really even care what I did to create this vulnerability in her. Sometimes, giving your life to someone should be able to temporarily patch those holes. Im allowing myself the ability to not have to make any decisions on wether the opportunity to reconcile even pops up. Right now the kids and myself are the only thing that matter in this world. 

Anyway, I really appreciate your support and comments. 


Tron,

Thank you. You are absolutely right. I have more self worth then that. I might have been a bit lenient in the past, but no one is pushing this man over ever again. I am following FSJ advice to the T no matter how painful. 

jsmart,

Spot on post. Thank you. August IS right around the corner and even the thought of asking about us makes me sick. Begging is out of the question. And, if for some reason I feel the need to this is my go to spot for advice and help. I don’t want to really make any decisions until I consult you wonderful people and my in area support. Keep being the voice of reality please. I need it. I am slowing building my self back up stronger then ever. And I will let go of the coldness.

FSJ,

180,180,180.

Im filling my day with the kids, gym, books, self reflection and this forum. I owe it to myself to take it easy and let go of what I can’t control. Thank you my friend. I look forward to your post. Everyone here just makes me feel like I can do this with as little scares as possible.

Your right, Changes never stick unless they are for yourself. I know in my head I want this to be a deal breaker. Thats why the more I distance and detach my heart can feel the same way. 

But, even with that said I just don’t know what I want. And to me that is embarrassing. What I wanted was who I thought she was, not who she is.

Ive put a lot of thought into the drama triangle. Its just so damn crazy how accurately it describes what is going on and how our entire relationship has been. Its been keeping my mind busy and and going to start putting down my thoughts on it tonight. I really do need to be 50k above. It actually felt like I was taking my life back when I said I was not ok with giving them the illusion that everything is ok. And then later that night when I repeated very calmly that while it is of upmost importance to remain respectful to each other in front of the kids, our communication needs to only be about the kids and future arrangements. Yet, at the same time, at the end of the day thats what she wants, out. To only communicate about the kids and future arrangements that don’t include me. Doesn’t really matter anyway.

When you said you wanted to know about her actions, did you mean things that might be noticed as odd or out of the ordinary? Honestly, everything feels out of the ordinary now. 

Couple things happen today where i was just thinking what the hell is your deal??? Is that what your looking for?


I went to my first IC today. He gave me some books to read. “HIS needs, Her needs,” and “ Why marriages work or Fail”. Something like that. I couldn’t gauge where he was as far as if he’s going to push to separate or reconcile. If its the later then Im finding someone else. Im going to work on my personal issues and want to grow as an individual. He was just asking about the kids and how they are handling it, which they have no idea. Just felt kinda weird.

Taking the kids to the arcade. It makes me happy to see them happy.

Thanks for listening and sorry for the long post with no quotes, Ill figure it out sooner or later. 
SOS


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I am asking about her interactions with you. Examples from what you already described would be offering you dinner and slamming doors at 2 a.m.

I would especially like to know if she starts to move from the victim to the aggressor in the triangle. There are some tools that will help you.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Last night,
I haven't seen her do her nails in months and when i got home last night she was spread out over the living room floor watching her shows painting her nails. Which i thought was rude seeing i let her have the bedroom and after our talk she sat in the recliner finishing her lifetime crap. She has gone strait to the bedroom after work for the last month even if I was home and ignored the **** out of me. And now she wants to take up space in the living room. I just read my book and had my headphones on enjoying my night. I could barely keep my eyes open.

As for today, 

This morning she just was very mopey and quite and almost oblivious to the kids. And when she did have to speak to me it was like a nervous sweet type tone. Not her normal demeanor by any stretch. For the last couple weeks that I've been home I get up and start to clean house and I hate to say it but she took that from me. Did the dishes and swept and finished the laundry I had been doing for the kids.

She asked if I had any plans and I said I only need about 2 hours at some point to go handle my business and it didn't matter when I did it as long as it was before 4 so she left for a while so i took care of the kids.We are starting to burn a track in the pavement with how many times I've brought them down to the lake. Nothing strange I guess...Probably went and got a quickie  lol....

For the last few days she has texted a lot (not to me) and checked her phone constantly but nothing last night or in the morning and the thing I felt odd about was she made it very clear she was looking for a new place on her phone. Just sitting with her phone out on the table when that thing has been super hidden. I paid no attention and went and took care of things. When I got back she didn't say a word to me, just hugged the kids goodbye and literally raced to get out of the house and again slammed the door very needlessly. I get that our front door is sticky but if I did anything even remotely like that I would have got a ear full.

The one thing that absolutely weirded me out today was when I was about to leave I throw my macbook and iPad and books and notes on my passenger side and when I went looking for my pen I found one of her cigarets. It was totally freaking bizarre. There is absolute no way I put that their. Just was one of those wtf moments. 

Ive really tried not to put any thought or meaning into anything consciously or unconsciously. I don't know if any of this is worth anything. I know I need to take care of my space though when we are home. I don't think there is any reason we need to watch tv together. Feels like games to me.

Ill get back to you about the move from victim to aggressor. I think she started to display traits of that last night.

SOS


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

StuckonStuck said:


> jld,
> 
> I feel like your saying its my fault she cheated.


It is not your fault. We do contribute to our partner's vulnerability, though. How could we not?



> And yes, divorce (which is i suppose what you could call this BREAK UP) does hurt the children. But what kind of parent would I be if I didn’t show them what self respect is?


_Gently . . . _

Self respect? Or . . . _pride?_

Your kids are going to suffer greatly from a divorce, SOS. Please listen to professional counsel on this, and not just other divorced dads. For your children's sake.



> I want them to understand that we must first be happy and love ourselves. And that it is not ok to trample over and destroy everything for a moment of self gratification.


Isn't that possibly what you may be doing with planning the divorce?



> When they come of age and understand what has happen they will look back and be proud that their father was a man that had boundaries, love, self respect and morals and wasn’t a PLAN B push over who should have just been happy with what he is allowed to have.


They may look back and be disappointed their dad did not try to understand the vulnerability of their mom, and help her rebuild the marriage.

I am sorry if that is painful to read, SOS. But I think it is as likely an outcome, if not more, than what you wrote.



> Her needs weren’t being met is no excuse to go swallow ****.


No, it was not. I am really sorry she was not strong enough to either come to you with her needs and persist until you met them or find a healthy way to meet them herself. She was very weak. (Like you with your drug use. Which she did not abandon you over.)



> I couldn’t tell you how many times I was gone for days on end with every opportunity to be unfaithful to her. My needs weren’t being met and I didn’t pursue. Because what I wanted was her. And I was willing to wait out the long days just to be by her side. My love for her was unconditional. I thought I was doing the right thing. I would day dream about being with her and holding her when I was on a 70hour stretch. When I stood back and looked and my family there was no man luckier, ever. Thats how I felt.


But your love was not unconditional. It was not tested. Until it was. And now it showing itself not to be unconditional.

She has a different weakness than you do, SOS. She was not drawn into drugs just like you were not drawn into cheating. 



> She didn’t. So Im not sure I really even care what I did to create this vulnerability in her. Sometimes, giving your life to someone should be able to temporarily patch those holes. Im allowing myself the ability to not have to make any decisions on wether the opportunity to reconcile even pops up. Right now the kids and myself are the only thing that matter in this world.


You are hurting right now. That is normal. You got quite a shock. Anyone would be very upset right now.

Please consider the advice of your counselor before you make any big decisions. Those counselors have seen a lot. They advise courses of action for a reason.



> Anyway, I really appreciate your support and comments.


You seem like a nice person, SOS. I think you love her. And I think she loves you, too.

She made a mistake. No doubt about that. Just don't allow yourself to be blinded by the mistake. We all make them, each in our own way.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

StuckonStuck said:


> Last night,
> I haven't seen her do her nails in months and when i got home last night she was spread out over the living room floor watching her shows painting her nails. Which i thought was rude seeing i let her have the bedroom and after our talk she sat in the recliner finishing her lifetime crap. She has gone strait to the bedroom after work for the last month even if I was home and ignored the **** out of me. And now she wants to take up space in the living room. I just read my book and had my headphones on enjoying my night. I could barely keep my eyes open.
> 
> As for today,
> ...


Stay the course on the 180.

There are three sayings you must know if she goes from victim to aggressor. Remember to do it in a CFD manner.

1. I am sorry you feel that way.
2. I am not okay with x (yelling, manipulating, etc.).
3. I see it differently.

These statements don't allow her to project her emotions onto you. This keeps you out of the victim chair, and also keeps you from engaging into pointless arguments with her.

If she wants to fix this, she can come to you with the proverbial hat in hand. Until then, she gets to own her mistakes without projecting them onto you.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I don't think counselors are meant to "give advice." They're supposed to ask the right questions that allow YOU to arrive at your own conclusions, to make your own decision on what's best for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

JDL,

-No, it's not my fault. I take and have always taken full responsibility for my actions. You have no idea.

-Self-Respect. I gave up pride a long long time ago to be able to get where I am today.

-Obviously, yes. And they will know I mean business when she's out.

-No, it absolutely isn't. And if we are focusing on the fact that I hurt her with my past and that is her reason of resentment then yes, she has abandon me and her family.

-Feels like an attempt to guilt me. Im very familure with that(her go-to, hell, her whole families go-to). I don't think future tripping even matters at this point of what they think. In the end isn't it I that has to live with myself?

-I think your twisting the unconditional thing. And it has been tested like you wouldn't believe. And now I wonder if I should have let go so long ago. Your comparing apples to oranges. While yes they could each be considered a vice it just really isn't the same. Considering that alcohol is her choice and can be quite the lush. Its not that she drinks everyday but she has no control once she starts. So, do I blame it on the fact that she is an alcoholic and if she didn't drink she wouldn't cheat? And do I get to cancel out my past because she has her crutch? Cause then we are only left with the cheating. Im just trying to understand your reasoning.

-I try to be a great person. And I have made my mistakes and take ownership of them because thats what is right. She didn't make a mistake, she didn't get wasted and kiss some stranger on the dance floor. She got involved with a coworker. What she made was a cold and calculated decision. A decision she made because she said she has felt trapped and that for a long time she didn't want this anymore. And she is still in that decision considering the time it is and she has not told me that its over or any of the sorts. This was her exit. She is enjoying her new life. Im happy for her. But, it was no mistake.

After all, the EXIT AFFAIR is the one they say there is no coming back from. This was her way of burning the bridge to ash and hanging all the workers. Clearly she has this idea that I am not a reasonable person who can understand the simple words of "It's over". I really don't know why, I have never given her a reason to think otherwise. We could have ended up being ok friends and still have the help of our families and not a 50k ft wedge between us when we are with our children. I don't have any answers. All I know is everything she has told me, and it barely makes any sense. 

I am in full 180. There is no doubt every bit of this hurts like hell. But, I will never give her the pleasure of knowing just how bad.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

StuckonStuck said:


> JDL,
> 
> -No, it's not my fault. I take and have always taken full responsibility for my actions. You have no idea.
> 
> ...


Your last line sums up your state of mind and this entire post: you are in reactive/defensive mode.

Good luck, SOS. All the best to your children.


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

StuckonStuck said:


> JDL,
> 
> -No, it's not my fault. I take and have always taken full responsibility for my actions. You have no idea.
> 
> ...


This is self justification at its best.

You would have preferred she used drugs because you think it is a lesser crime. You think an affair is the ultimate crime that cannot be forgiven.

Leaving your kids and their mom because you want to teach them self respect is distorted thinking. You are leaving them because you can't bear the thought your wife has slept with someone else. 

Kids will remember who stuck with them when it was hard. Right now, it is not you.


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

notmyrealname4 said:


> . But kissing is forgivable; where actual sex really isn't.


Why actual sex is not forgivable? 

Some may think if she had murdered someone, she could be forgiven. But for some reason an affair is the ultimate crime.

It does not make sense.


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

I see big problem here. You spend days and days with each other in big House and you never talk. What bothers so much is that you sit around and let her continue this Affair.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Duguesclin said:


> Why actual sex is not forgivable?
> 
> Some may think if she had murdered someone, she could be forgiven. But for some reason an affair is the ultimate crime.
> 
> It does not make sense.


It doesn't have to. 

It is not your boundary.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> It doesn't have to.
> 
> It is not your boundary.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Agreed Far. This boundary is for SOS, not for his kids.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

jld,

Self-preservation. 

Can I ask have you been in this situation yet? If so, were you the Faithful or the WW? I feel you are extremely biased. I understand I am to but I know why I am. Im digging in deep to come out better then before. 



Actually Dug,

No, I don't think drug use is a leaser crime. I was essentially cheating on her with drugs at that time. My entire being was wrapped up and not available for her. I know that, and we have done a lot of work to move past that.

And never once did I say I cannot forgive her. Maybe in some years time when I work through my issues I will be able to give her the gift of forgiveness. But, forgiveness dose not mean I have to take her back if/when that opportunity presents it self. 

The kids will know who stuck with them. I'm not leaving my kids, I'm leaving there mom. They are staying here in the house. It is there mother leaving in August. And, isn't taking them with her. Not because she said she can't but because she doesn't really want to.

Also, The last 7 days have been me, breakfast, lunch and dinner. I have kept my self together to let these kids have the last but of "normalcy" I can. I'm also the one not staying out to 2am right now living the free life. Im at home with my kids not because I have to, but because thats what I want.

And Ive been up since 7 cause thats when the kids get up. She is still sleeping with a hang over. And I am the one leaving my kids? 


notmyrealname,

We did talk, all the time. Text and calls more often then not. I always made myself available and it seemed as if so did she. Even up till the day I caught her. It was after I caught her where she told me he hadn't even kept in touch anymore. I have text and call logs to show otherwise. And the fact that Ive been home since June and enjoy her company. 

I work 80 hours a week because thats just what the job entails when you get to my level. I don't enjoy the time but my job makes me happy. Its what anyone in my career path aims for. And I did actually intend on backing off because I was realizing at the end my family was suffering. I don't drive a fancy car. I traded in my truck and we bought her the nice suv for the kids and I took her crap car because it was great on gas and I have to drive awful far sometimes. A larger house doesn't have to be in an amazing neighborhood. Ill admit allowed myself to fall victim of work lots, make money, work work work. I wish I could have changed that sooner. Thats on me.

No, I don't have proof of anything more then a kiss. But, to me it doesn't matter if thats all it was. Lets not forget that she got caught, said she wanted out and felt trapped, instantly went to text AP and has yet to show any sorry or remorse. This opened my eyes to what she can do. Sometimes that can be enough, right?

Besmart,

That bothers who so much? you? me? her?

I have not been able to just sit around. These kids have a schedule and I have been showing them the love they deserve.

FSJ,

Thank you, this is my boundary, not my kids.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

No, my marriage has not been affected by infidelity. But I have done some reading which I think could help you.

I have to switch to a PC, and am also making plans with my kids for the afternoon. Will be back as soon as I can.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

These are all oriented towards reconciliation, SOS. Please read them before giving up on the idea.

When your wife cheats on You | Brian and Anne Bercht

_"There is tremendous hope for couples where the wife has been unfaithful, because the betrayed husband is serious about becoming the man he needs to be for his wife, and the changes he makes stick, so now more than ever the wife can have the husband she always wanted with the man she married. The illusion that things will be better with the affair partner is exactly that, an illusion. In real life the other man comes with his own set of character flaws, and the loving courtship behaviors that are present in the secret relationship, don’t continue if the affair becomes a marriage."_


Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife

What to Do with an Unfaithful Wife Letter #1


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

I just want to put this out there,

FSJ told me the longer I feel sorry for my self and blame the ol' lady, the longer it will take for me to heal.

"Own your ****." 

He is Right. This is my response i sent him. Im putting it out there because I realize I am playing the victim card. I will not anymore. I am trying to get to 50k ft.

"Your right. 

Your F'ing right.

I created an environment where there was no safety. Ive been unpredictable, resentful and distant. That last few weeks Ive felt angry that she checked out. What I know in my heart is that I checked out long ago. Not on purpose, but because I was insecure. Because I felt like I didn't deserve anyone to help or stand by me. I have played the role of all 3 this entire relationship. I was the leader in the relationship. And I failed. I kept the triangle going. I was the aggressor, constantly making her feel insecure and then I played the role of rescuer so I could resume my importance. How could she ever have felt happy with her self, safe and secure when I constantly kept the relationship in term oil. 

Your Right.

She didn't deserve to be put through what I have put her through. And for a long time she has stood by me even at my worst. And I can respect that eventually the strain is so great that the bonds that people have can be broken. And when a person has been hurt like herself and been made to be the victim it was only a matter of time before a different rescuer came in and saved the day. I am the one who lead us down this path. That is on me. That is what I own.

Your right.

I didn't deserve to be cheated on. But I do deserve to be exactly where I am at.
Everything happens for a reason.

Keep my eyes open, you have been instrumental in every step I take.

I thank you from the bottom of my heart."


From here on out I am owning my mistakes that lead to this situation. I can only put the work into myself to create the man and father my kids need. Take this time to learn from each and everyone of my mistakes and be able to apply the changes I make to every obstacle that life throws at me.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Staying in a bad relationship is never good for the kids. They aren't stupid. 

Never be a doormat to anyone. Everyone has issues in a marriage most don't go out and start an affair because of it. Doesn't say much about her character.

It'll take awhile to get over it but you have the correct mindset. The less contact with her the better. You'll move on much faster and there are better life partners out there.

Good luck.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

StuckonStuck said:


> I just want to put this out there,
> 
> FSJ told me the longer I feel sorry for my self and blame the ol' lady, the longer it will take for me to heal.
> 
> ...


Solid self reflection. 

Now make a commitment to never do that to your partner again.

Remember what I told you about telling her things one time. Then back it up with action.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Duguesclin said:


> This is self justification at its best.
> 
> You would have preferred she used drugs because you think it is a lesser crime. You think an affair is the ultimate crime that cannot be forgiven.
> 
> ...


This is the single worst post I have ever seen on this site.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Staying in a bad relationship is never good for the kids. They aren't stupid.
> 
> Never be a doormat to anyone. Everyone has issues in a marriage most don't go out and start an affair because of it. Doesn't say much about her character.
> 
> ...



Awesome, and on point. Thank you.


Chaparral,

I haven't been around long enough to make that statement, but I thought his post was a little off base.. 



As for today, it hurts. But, I apply the 180 and quickly snap out of it. I can't say that a part of me hopes some how she realizes this pain and does everything to repair herself. But, right now the better part of me knows I need to dig in deep, ride this out, make the best of horrible situation, and let her go down her own lonely road to "happiness". So, thats where I am at. Sad, hurt, angry, nostalgic, hopeful for the future, excited to move on, scared of uncertainty. Man, is it possible to feel all that at once? 

Anyway, she is finally doing something with the kids so I have the day to my self and practice tonight. About to head off to the gym and force myself to eat. Damn, eating is so hard. Sleep isn't as bad as I thought, until she makes her presence known late night, then its a bit hard to fall back asleep. 


SOS


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

StuckonStuck said:


> Awesome, and on point. Thank you.
> 
> 
> Chaparral,
> ...


It takes the heart awhile to sync up with your head. You'll get there. Time and no contact will help


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Marc,

Yes it does. Just focusing on what matters. Step by step, and slowing my mind down so maybe my heart will catch up faster.

Some times during the day I just feel paralyzed. I fear the amount of work that I am in store for will be just....
And then I remind myself what hard work and persistence leads to, Amazing things.




Ive always been a big gardner. Im trying to keep up with everything outside but thats when I am reminded of everything. A trigger? She always made it very clear about how she did not like the amount of time I spent out there. But, the kids were always with me helping and playing. I wasn't running from them. I just was trying to keep up appearances. 

Man, the last sentence just made me think. Maybe thats all I have really been doing. Just trying to keep up appearance. Never actually building a solid foundation, just patching holes as the dam burst. 

I think I have been very superficial. Im starting to wonder if I felt as long as it looks nice on the outside, who cares whats going on, on the inside. Looking back I can think of many situations where I pretended to care, only to hurry up that moment and move on. Put a bandaid on it. I was not present. 

I wasn't always like that. I can see though I started to slowly make excuses and justifications to myself. Im to tired from work, haven't had a day off in weeks, all the normal crap. I lost sight of what was important, really important. 

I am present now though, and am feeling a lot of things I have never felt before.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

StuckonStuck said:


> Ive always been a big gardner. Im trying to keep up with everything outside but thats when I am reminded of everything. A trigger? She always made it very clear about how she did not like the amount of time I spent out there. But, the kids were always with me helping and playing. I wasn't running from them. I just was trying to keep up appearances.
> 
> Man, the last sentence just made me think. *Maybe thats all I have really been doing. Just trying to keep up appearance. Never actually building a solid foundation, just patching holes as the dam burst. *
> 
> ...


More than likely it's you trying to justify caving in and begging? Many BHs come here and pretty much prostate themselves with all the fvcked up $hit they did. It's like a coping mechanism. If they know they were the cause of the marital woes, then "owning it" means it's ok for them to do the heavy work, which includes begging the wayward back. 

Don't go down that path. It's the betrayed spouse fog which also has marital history revisionism but in the opposite direction. All of a sudden the betrayed was not a good spouse, the waywards short comings evaporate and all that is remembered are the good times.

Keep hitting the gym. Get back to playing your music. It can help you focus in a positive direction and not dwell on her. Your kids need a dad that is strong in body, mind, and spirit. Their mother is in "it's all about my happiness mode." So you'll be playing 2 roles for a while. Not a time to start doubting yourself.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

jsmart said:


> More than likely it's you trying to justify caving in and begging? Many BHs come here and pretty much prostate themselves with all the fvcked up $hit they did. It's like a coping mechanism. If they know they were the cause of the marital woes, then "owning it" means it's ok for them to do the heavy work, which includes begging the wayward back.
> 
> Don't go down that path. It's the betrayed spouse fog which also has marital history revisionism but in the opposite direction. All of a sudden the betrayed was not a good spouse, the waywards short comings evaporate and all that is remembered are the good times.
> 
> Keep hitting the gym. Get back to playing your music. It can help you focus in a positive direction and not dwell on her. Your kids need a dad that is strong in body, mind, and spirit. Their mother is in "it's all about my happiness mode." So you'll be playing 2 roles for a while. Not a time to start doubting yourself.



Thanks, I needed that. I just printed that out and put it in my pocket...

It's staying there till AUGUST...


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

SOS
Your wife betrayed you and the children and replaced you and rejected you for another man. You failed your GF emotionally for 3 years and betrayed yourself and her with your drugs. That is a lot of damage but you already know all of that.

I have read posts that tell you that you can save your marriage and posts that tell you to RUN away from her as soon as you can. Which one you choose should be determined by the LOVE you BOTH have for each other. The word love is used so generally and without much detail many times so I will attempt to give you my take on love and your situation.

Love is not just feelings and I know you know that but you also said



> Well, my cousin had been bugging me to meet one of her friends. I finally relented and they came to a show when we were playing near town and *I fell in love that moment*. She said she did too


REALLY! You meet her one day and you fall in love in one day, one week, one month? Then you both have children together and then the real life starts to be obvious. *Feelings alone do not get you very far in the real world of raising a family and keeping a good relationship with your partner, does it?* You hurt her deeply with your drug use and then deprive her emotionally for years. She commits the number one relationship killer and betrays you and the children. Feelings did not help stop those relationhip killers, did they?

Now I have seen relationships that have been seriously damaged and have a decent reconciliation. However, as I have stated that takes real love that includes more than feelings.* Real love requires sacrifice for each other, honesty, and loyalty, does not dishonor your partner, or is self-seeking.* You are very brave and have examined yourself and gave us your assessment of yourself when you answered FSJ in post 54. *Now I would ask you to do the same with the love factors mentions *above that make love work.

You both have harmed each other and I am not going to take a side as to which one did more harm. *What I am trying to do, IMO, is to give you the criteria for real love so that you can use that in your decision to D or R and apply that now or in the future with whomever you choose.* I am not telling you to D or to R I am following up on your statement of 



> Right now my focus really needs to be *becoming a better **man*. Learning how to fulfill myself and my children.


You are right on target SOS! Right now you cannot fix anyone except yourself. When you become a better man then you will be so much better and stronger than you are now. It will be very tempting for you to follow the emotional pull that you are going to experience for many months and years but ask yourself if those emotions will make you a better man.

*There is a LOT to becoming a better man but in your situation if you are going to decide if you are going to D or R, then real love is crucial IMO*


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

That's pretty heavy. I don't even know where to start. Also reading it makes me see things a lot differently.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What is your workout plan for tomorrow?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Moving the bill that are in her name back to mine. Getting her off the lease. Going to my Union meeting. Then it's back and biceps. 

Yesterday was mentally tough. I'm trying not to think at all today.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

StuckonStuck said:


> As for today, it hurts. But, I apply the 180 and quickly snap out of it. I can't say that a part of me hopes some how she realizes this pain and does everything to repair herself. But, right now the better part of me knows I need to dig in deep, ride this out, make the best of horrible situation, and let her go down her own lonely road to "happiness". So, thats where I am at. Sad, hurt, angry, nostalgic, hopeful for the future, excited to move on, scared of uncertainty. Man, is it possible to feel all that at once?


Well, your current goal is to learn yourself, know yourself, and improve yourself, yes? So focus on that and let everything else happen as it will. She drifted away because of y'all's circumstances; once she sees the work you're doing, it's possible she may become attracted to you again.

But still, that's no concern of yours, because you have to learn to be ok for yourself, by yourself. Let the rest of your life unfold as it will.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Unfold as it will, I will let it. The more Ive ever tried to fight for something to stay the same, the harder the fight became and things changed anyway.

Finished getting the bills in my name. The paper work to get her of the lease will be finished tomorrow. 

I was dreading all that. Felt like if I didn't do any of it, it would mean none of this was real. IDK. 

Going to practice in a little. Will feel good to go beat the **** out of those skins. My back is killing me though, I always go to hard on the first day of a new muscle group.

Anyway, hard to eat still but Im sure that will come and go. 

SOS


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Eat, sleep, exercise, take care of your kids, no alcohol.

And don't be a ***** on the snare. Too many of your ilk are way too soft on it...drives me freaking crazy.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Ups and downs. Ups and downs. 

She's packing her **** as I type. 

I'm not sure how I feel about the fact she is doing it blatantly in front of the kids. 


So, we are going to the pool.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Pride, defiance, and shame.

What a nasty brew.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

that exactly what I was thinking


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Or was that directed to me? 

That's the problem with the Internet and texting. You can't see the persons eyes or body language or hear the tone in there voice. 

I'm not sure that would matter anyway because clearly understanding people and communication is not my strong point.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

So, now that it feels like she is going to attempt to drag the kids through this I need to discuss this with my oldest. 

She just turned 6. My boy is 2. 

Can you guys give me some advice on an age appropriate discussion to have. 

What are some things I should do and things I should not do?

Should we do it together or one on one?

Thanks in advance. 
SOS


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

It is not at you.

This is manipulation, which is not okay. Furthermore, involving your kids in the manipulation is even worse.

You should have simply said to her:

"I am not okay with manipulation."

Then take the kids to the pool.

So, shockingly, communication is not your strong suit... Who would have thunk it? 

What are you doing to improve that? Part of reaching 50K feet is not only knowing your shortcomings, but actually working to improve them.


----------



## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> So, now that it feels like she is going to attempt to drag the kids through this I need to discuss this with my oldest.
> 
> She just turned 6. My boy is 2.
> 
> ...


Make sure that you let your children know that you love them; yes go overboard as they will be shaken by your wife/GF’s actions. Concentrate on your children and yourself. Make sure that you convey to your children that everything is going to be alright and present yourself as strong even if you are not.

What you should NOT do is to beg, cry, and fall apart in front of your children or your wife/GF. You may have to fake it until you make it. You are going to have to force yourself to make you and the children number one and force thoughts of your wife/GF out of your mind. Get lots of help and get all the help that you can. Your children ae the most important task that you have at this time as they are innocent and they are fragile.

As for you doing it together or by yourself I would just say that you will have to decide what is best for the children.

Use these crises to motivate you to make changes in your life for you to get better so you can also help your children get better. You will always have to live with you and your children will always be your children. That is not true of your GF; she will not always be your GF and she will not always live with you. Now you know where your future is and who is important.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"Darling, mommy and I love you very much, but we are having trouble being together right now, so mommy is going to live in a different home, at least for now. But nothing is going to change when it comes to you guys - we're all about you two. You can ask me anything, anytime, and I promise I will always tell you the truth."


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Pride, defiance, and shame.
> 
> What a nasty brew.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk





StuckonStuck said:


> that exactly what I was thinking


Is that true, SOS? Do you think those are the reasons she is leaving?

You don't have to answer. But your truthfulness could help other people in the same situation.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

I think the reason she left is because she was done with the relationship and no longer wanted it. I take half the responsibility for allowing things to create this scenario of pain and unhappiness. The other half is for her to own. To her though its 97.4467542% my fault. I don't think that has changed.

If there is anything in her that is waking up or thinking she has/is making a mistake, pride and defiance would be the reason she refuses to acknowledge it.. She refuses to ask for help, and only when offered sternly does she relent. Her pride is worse then mine ever was. I promptly acknowledge my mistakes and apologize when I have realized what I did was wrong and hurt someone. For her, It is almost like seeing someone in pain when she is admitting fault or guilt. She's never really has ever been accountable for her actions. Her family is the epitome of enabling. So when she is called out, she has always been rescued. Even by the ones who call her out, me. 

There is no me to the rescue whether she wants it or not. 

180. Kids. 

Ive come further then I thought I would in 11 days. Not far enough I fear though. I am slow to act on things where I need to communicate when things I am not ok with take place. 

Im not afraid to push her further, I just know who she can really be when she no longer wants to be the victim. 

Im coming out on top for the time being. That could change any min. Obviously she feels guilty, hopefully it stays that way for just a little bit longer. 

SOS


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

She has been angling for you to rescue her from most of what you have posted. 

I would only extend that lifeline when she can demonstrate she can be humble enough to admit her contribution to this situation and full transparency (timeline, no contact, electronic devices open, etc.).

The ship is leaving the dock with or without her. She has to choose to get on board or get left behind.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> She has been angling for you to rescue her from most of what you have posted.
> 
> I would only extend that lifeline when she can demonstrate she can be humble enough to admit her contribution to this situation and full transparency (timeline, no contact, electronic devices open, etc.).
> 
> ...


Where are you seeing angling to rescue, far?


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Who will be with the children while you are working? 
What about when you go on tour?
It is important to speak to an attorney and get a parenting plan completed. No one has any rights until it's all in writing.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Where are you seeing angling to rescue, far?


The slamming of doors, offering to cook dinner, finding reasons to engage him in conversation, packing in front of the kids?

It reeks of...

SOS2: "Save me from myself, SOS. Please. Just like you always have. Come to my rescue."

SOS Ideal Approach: "No. Save yourself. Put your big-girl-panties on and then maybe you will be a healthy enough partner for me to work with."

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> The slamming of doors, offering to cook dinner, finding reasons to engage him in conversation, packing in front of the kids?
> 
> It reeks of...
> 
> ...


Okay. I am getting a different picture.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Okay. I am getting a different picture.


Which is?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Which is?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Well, I think it only fair to first disclose that SOS contacted me by pm over the weekend and we exchanged a few messages. So our exchange is likely affecting my perception of what may be happening.

In his messages I felt a different tone than what I seem to be reading here on the board. It feels to me that here on the board he is trying to fit in with the crowd on CWI, with its, imo, tough guy approach. His tone in his pm's was much more humble, more open, and vulnerable. Also, I think he may have said one thing in pm that I do not recall reading in his posts here. To me it seemed significant, and it gives me hope.

But back to your question . . .

I do think she is having an exit affair. But I do not think it needs to be over for them. I think if SOS were to follow Marriage Builders Plan A, for the 6 months to a year that Dr. Harley recommends to men, he could turn this around.

His wife likely does feel guilty to leave her family. But her needs went unmet for a very long time, and left her vulnerable to making an unhealthy choice. 

I think the asking him about dinner was just a courtesy reflecting the reality that they must coexist for at least a few days in the house. The conversation attempts may have been from a practical need of some sort, or again, a reflection of the reality that they are not yet fully separated.

I do not see pride. I see sorrow that this is what is happening.

Have you ever broken up with someone, far, and felt sad, even when you felt it was the right thing to do?

I think that is where his wife is. She is grieving the relationship, even as she moves to the one who seems, at least temporarily, better suited to meet her needs.

I do not think this relationship is necessarily over, or needs to be, anyway. I think Plan A for an extended period of time could turn things around. I think he could earn her trust. And I think she will eventually realize that other man is not perfect, either. Every pairing has its own challenges.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Just how many people are you pm'ing, SOS? Two timing [email protected]

:grin2:

JLD, I agree with your assessment of his tone via p.m. However, it does not change my assessment of her through his words. She is refusing to apologize for anything and has done so for what appears to be their entire relationship. That is pure pride combined with toxic shame.

I would never encourage someone to do plan A. Simply put, nobody in this world is so special that I would do that for them. I would just as soon let them go. If they come back, there may be room in my life for them, but I will have likely moved on. But that is my bias. Take note of this, SOS because this can color my advice. However, that is why I keep asking you what you want.

As for additional advice to SOS, I have been somewhat limited in what I can tell him to do other than the 180 and disengagement statements because he still has no idea what he wants, or at least not consistently.

Right now, the most important thing he can do is focus on himself with self improvement, take care if his kids, and get himself out of infidelity as quickly as possible. I see all other actions as secondary to those.



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Just how many people are you pm'ing, SOS? Two timing [email protected]
> 
> :grin2:
> 
> JLD, I agree with your assessment of his tone via p.m. However, it does not change my assessment of her through his words. She is refusing to apologize for anything and has done so for what appears to be their entire relationship. That is pure pride combined with toxic shame.


I am not sure I agree with the last sentence. 

It is your opinion, though. And the purpose of a message board is to get a variety of opinions. So it is good you share it.



> I would never encourage someone to do plan A. Simply put, nobody in this world is so special that I would do that for them. I would just as soon let them go. If they come back, there may be room in my life for them, but I will have likely moved on. But that is my bias. Take note of this, SOS because this can color my advice. However, that is why I keep asking you what you want.


It can be hard to know exactly what one wants in such an emotionally difficult situation. And it may shift throughout the day, and even into the weeks to come.

Another reason it is good to get a variety of input. We never know when a bit of advice might be valuable.



> As for additional advice to SOS, I have been somewhat limited in what I can tell him to do other than the 180 and disengagement statements because he still has no idea what he wants, or at least not consistently.
> 
> Right now, the most important thing he can do is focus on himself with self improvement, take care if his kids, and get himself out of infidelity as quickly as possible. I see all other actions as secondary to those.


Taking care of himself and his kids is very important. And he seems to be doing a good job of it.

I am very glad he has support from his fellow union members. And he knows we are here for him, too, each in our own way.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Man, I feel like this all got pretty weird.

I sent jld a message first apologizing for coming off like an ******* and attacking. The second was a brief history. And not that it matters now, before I knew she had never gone through any type of infidelity. Which explained the "if your lucky she will come back". There is nothing wrong with that approach, it's just not for me. I respect what jld brings to the table and her opinion. Im here because I want all sides. But, I know the advice of FSJ is better for my long term well being.

I am not plan B, and I am no tuff guy, I smile when I am glad, I yell when Im angry, I cry when I am hurt, I aint no ****ing robot. I have remained consistent in my 180, move forward attitude not because of the attitude of this forum, but because I do still have some shreds of self respect. And admittedly I have wondered and flirted with the idea of trying to R this. But, I tend to quickly snap out of it. I might be a bit softer in my PM. So what? 

FSJ will tell you, I have kept jumping back over the fence. But, I realize it is sadness and loneliness that keep me on her side, and when I think logically I climb right back over and know that the best path for me is to move forward, keep my kids loved, and love myself.

Ive read to many threads lately where I see that the plan B, will be plan B for the rest of there life. I am a plan A or nothing. 

SOS


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

StuckonStuck said:


> Man, I feel like this all got pretty weird.
> 
> I sent jld a message first apologizing for coming off like an ******* and attacking. The second was a brief history. And not that it matters now, before I knew she had never gone through any type of infidelity. Which explained the "if your lucky she will come back". There is nothing wrong with that approach, it's just not for me. I respect what jld brings to the table and her opinion. Im here because I want all sides. But, I know the advice of FSJ is better for my long term well being.
> 
> ...


Plan A is not "if you are lucky she will come back." It is hard work on oneself to earn the spouse's trust and show her you can meet her needs.

One of the moderators has it in her signature. I will link it.

What Are Plan A and Plan B?

Btw, it was your 3rd pm that was most revealing, especially the last full paragraph, iirc. It is what gave me hope for reconciliation, if you want it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Plan A is you becoming a cuckold.

Thanks but no thanks.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Lol. You just mad me laugh terribly hard. 

Agreed. I read plan a and b. 

Just sounds like if the woman has an affair it's the mans fault. If a man has an affair it's the mans fault. 

I see nothing that helps get the ws to own 50%. 

I get that blame can even be 60/40, 30/70. 

I am more to blame. I know because I can honestly recall my actions. 

It's been a tug of war our entire relationship. As fsj said, it's time to drop the rope. 

What ever happens, happens. I can't change any of what has happen. I know I will be alright regardless. 

Sos


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> Who will be with the children while you are working?
> What about when you go on tour?
> It is important to speak to an attorney and get a parenting plan completed. No one has any rights until it's all in writing.




These are questions That need answers and fast. I have been really trying to look into the future I suppose and see how the kids can best be taken care of.

Unfortunately, its my side of the family that helps out more than anyone, and my mom who watches them 3 or 4 days a week. I don't know how that is going or if it will change. We have always leaned heavily on our parents to help, and we haven't ever had the cold bite of child care cost. I know that will change. And I know that its my job that really put us in that position. Im willing to do anything I have to, to make sure the kids are well taken care of. Im no stranger to sacrifice. That bridge is coming soon and it needs to be figured out asap.

We had just been talking about her quitting her job or finding a day job so the night time care for the kids wasn't an issue. Kids go to school and then come home. I had even been working on a separate business venture that within the years time would have allowed us to do so. I can't pursue that anymore at this moment in time. Our plans for the future never stopped being discussed. Buying our house next year. Future schools ect... I think its funny how she said "we have no plans, no goals". When just the week before all these things were being discussed. But, people in affairs never really think about the reality, the real future. Just rainbow unicorns, T & A, and 8=======). When the time comes this guy better be good to my kids, if "this one" even last long enough to get there.

I make a lot more money on tour so at least during those times I can help float the extra kid care cost(not her dating cost). 

Geese, these kinds of things really throw a ratchet in the gears. Its times like these when Ive always looked back and went "Damn, what in the hell was I thinking, I had it good".

Maybe I need to talk to a lawyer to get a better grasp of the reality and struggles I am about to face.

So far the discussion has been she doesn't want to take the kids from me. 50/50 with no child support. But, that could change the min she wants it to. So Im trying to ride her guilt wave till august. 

In fact, Im calling a lawyer today. Damn, more wasted money. 

And I can't believe how well the 180 really helps to detach. Step by step and day at a time. I will be ok.

SOS


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

StuckonStuck said:


> These are questions That need answers and fast. I have been really trying to look into the future I suppose and see how the kids can best be taken care of.
> 
> Unfortunately, its my side of the family that helps out more than anyone, and my mom who watches them 3 or 4 days a week. I don't know how that is going or if it will change. We have always leaned heavily on our parents to help, and we haven't ever had the cold bite of child care cost. I know that will change. And I know that its my job that really put us in that position. Im willing to do anything I have to, to make sure the kids are well taken care of. Im no stranger to sacrifice. That bridge is coming soon and it needs to be figured out asap.
> 
> ...


Yes you need to take the bull by the horns.

You need to see a Lawyer.

You need to determine a custody schedule that is in the best interest of your children and to use your Lawyer to fight for that. 

Child support is then determined from a formula.

FSJ is right in that you need to drop the rope.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

StuckonStuck said:


> These are questions That need answers and fast. I have been really trying to look into the future I suppose and see how the kids can best be taken care of.
> 
> Unfortunately, its my side of the family that helps out more than anyone, and my mom who watches them 3 or 4 days a week. I don't know how that is going or if it will change. We have always leaned heavily on our parents to help, and we haven't ever had the cold bite of child care cost. I know that will change. And I know that its my job that really put us in that position. Im willing to do anything I have to, to make sure the kids are well taken care of. Im no stranger to sacrifice. That bridge is coming soon and it needs to be figured out asap.
> 
> ...


In this post, you went from saying you need to solve a problem...right back to the victim chair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. I was 8-9 when my parents divorced and felt relief that the tension in the house was gone. Your kids will do fine with love from you and your ex in your respective homes. The younger they are the easier it is on them.

It is a shame that some do not seem to understand that a pm (private message) is exactly that - private. I'm sorry you felt uncomfortable with the disclosing.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

StuckonStuck said:


> Lol. You just made me laugh terribly hard.
> 
> Agreed. I read plan a and b.
> 
> ...


That's why I no longer push Plan A (Harley's). I push a modified Plan A. Meaning, yes, BY ALL MEANS, look hard at yourself, find all your flaws and work your freaking butt off to CHANGE all that. Stop your Love Busters. Meet her ENs - as long as she doesn't shove her affair in your face. Make it COMPLETELY clear you will not tolerate her cheating by first telling her to stop, then exposing the affair to all her VIPs if she won't stop, then getting your legal/financial ducks in a row while you continue to fix your faults and continue to show her what you CAN be but also making it clear she won't get to keep that better new man if she doesn't stop cheating. Final step: filing for either separation or divorce. She's always free to try to win you back, once she sees the amazing person you've become. But hanging around for six months to a year while gets her rocks off? No way. That may have worked for women in 70s or 80s, maybe even 90s, but now? No way.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Ah, good days and bad days. 

Today is a day in the middle. 

I think these are actually the toughest.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What have you done to improve your life?


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

I have recreated my list of principles, which are on my pocket at all times. They have been my strength through this. Fsj, thank you. 

I have been seeing my ic on Tuesday the last 3 weeks. 

I have been reading some incredible material for situations like this. 

I have committed to being fully present with my children at all times. Not just a loof in the clouds. Present. 

I have been learning to just sit with the pain. And accept what happens, happens. I will be ok. 

When I feel like escaping I hit up fsj and get my reality check. 

I have refused to act on my emotions. 

I have eaten the healthiest meals I can and work out every other day so my kids can have the healthiest father they can. 

I am not the victim. I am doing everything in my power to reach 50k ft. 

When I am in a situation where I don't know what to do, I ask for advice before reacting.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

StuckonStuck said:


> I have recreated my list of principles, which are on my pocket at all times. They have been my strength through this. Fsj, thank you.
> 
> I have been seeing my ic on Tuesday the last 3 weeks.
> 
> ...


You are making an excellent choice in asking FarSide for help. He's a good man and he's not reactionary.


----------



## StuckonStuck (Jun 27, 2016)

Unfortunately for him, he has been my go to guy.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> ...and he's not reactionary.


If only this were true.

Ty for the rest.


Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> If only this were true.
> 
> Ty for the rest.
> 
> ...


You have worked very hard to have a measured response. Especially if you are giving someone advice, I don't think you would be reactionary at all. I don't see it in the threads.

I hope things are going well with your wife and she realizes how blessed she is.


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Changes never stick when they are for someone else.
> 
> Your deal breaker does not sound like a deal breaker and that is okay. Respond to only what you want in this, not others.
> 
> ...


Conrad Lives on Brother Junkman

55


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

just got it 55 said:


> Conrad Lives on Brother Junkman
> 
> 55


I know. He just had a way of cutting through the b.s. in 4 or 5 words.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

CynthiaDe said:


> You have worked very hard to have a measured response. Especially if you are giving someone advice, I don't think you would be reactionary at all. I don't see it in the threads.
> 
> I hope things are going well with your wife and she realizes how blessed she is.


Ty, CynthiaDe.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> You are making an excellent choice in asking FarSide for help. He's a good man and he's* not **reactionary*.


Reactionary...not.

I get your gist. I will add some gust to it. Inflate and build on that word and concept.

*Reactionary*, to me means: To sit back and wait for things to happen to you. Once they happen, you then do "something" in response. Obviously, not good. Sometimes the things that "happen" to you will knock you so flat that a proper response with have to come from your surviving friends and family. You are a goner!

The opposite to reactionary is to "Be Prepared", like a good Boy or Girl scout. Be *Proactive.

*But wait! There is a middle state...it is *Inertia*...being paralyzed....vibrating in place....the mumble, stutter...head and body doing the left-right pose...teary eyes a-flutter.

You need to be balanced...be proactive as much as possible. Think things through as far as is reasonable "posi-bo". Have a detailed plan, carry it out.

But life has it's own All Star Pitchers....they wing a lot of fastballs. And you WILL miss a few.

That's when your Reactionary instincts can save you. At least that is the hope! Yes, balanced.


Never Inertia. Galileo and Newton be damned: 
"Inertia - the property of a body to resist changes to its state of motion, whatever that state may be". 

The mind resides inside a body and it too resists change.

OK, can I go back to sleep, now?


----------

