# REALLY NEED YOUR THOUGHTS! Is he lying?



## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

I have been contemplating a separation from my husband. Among our many issues is trust. WE had a big talk Saturday. It went less than perfect. 

The day before our talk, I had been looking for my daughter's iPad that she had misplaced, so I logged onto Find my iPhone app to look for it. What I saw was my husbands phone at a person's house in a neighborhood across a bridge from downtown, where he works. This was in the middle of the afternoon when he was supposed to be at work. I questioned him about it, and he blew up, denied any wrongdoing and swears he was at work. There is not any way to verify this. Is the app accurate enough to be 100% sure he is lying or do I have to take his word on this one, in light of technology being possibly faulty? Obviously, the trust issue remains...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

What other red flags are there?


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I would check his phone for messages and his email. I would gather as much as I could before saying anything. Weightlifter here has alot of really good advice on gathering info. I am really sorry you are here. 

I hope things go better for you. 

Clay


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Is there anyone at his work that would give you the real scoop?
(about where he was that day)

If he were not cheating, would he have gotten that upset?

Is he now an open book for you regarding his phone and the computer? Maybe you could spend some of his money on a PI.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

lordmayhem said:


> What other red flags are there?


Very little intimacy in last two years, despite his regular cialis use and porn addiction. We obviously have a problem on our hands… 

I just wasn't sure about the accuracy of the iPhone app. He is trying to explain away the other things as just being a guy who likes porn and the dry spell because of work stress. 
BUT WHAT ABOUT WHAT I SAW OF HIS LOCATION ON MY PHONE? It just isn't adding up-he tells me I'm looking for a bad situation where there isn't one. My gut thinks otherwise.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

From Apple Support...

Note: If Find My iPhone can’t locate a device, the last known location is displayed for up to 24 hours. Select “Notify me when found” to get an email when it comes online.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

harrybrown-there really is not a way for me to verify if he was at work. There is no appropriate way for me to approach the only person who would know. I cannot ask a question like that to his scheduler…truly inappropriate in this situation.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

He is also a history/text message deleter.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

If he has the location tracking turned on within the settings of his phone, it will have a time stamp and the location, so he can show you that he was or was not somewhere. Then when it reveals what you saw, let him try to explain it away.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

If the phone has signal and gives you a location (Bob's phone.. 30 seconds ago) it's pretty accurate. The inaccuracy it will show is in meters, not miles.

If there is no signal it will give last location and state so on screen.

My gut, given his reaction and the red flags is you do have a problem on your hands. And I agree with others that you should monitor before another confront.

~ Passio


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> From Apple Support...
> 
> Note: If Find My iPhone can’t locate a device, the last known location is displayed for up to 24 hours. Select “Notify me when found” to get an email when it comes online.


Even this would still prove he was there sometime within the last 24 hours (assuming the location was off and stopped updating).


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

I think what your gut is telling you is more important than what the iPhone locator is telling you.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

You could also do a screen capture of what you see:

0. Navigate to the screen you want to capture
1. Press and hold down Home (round button center bottom)
2. Press and release Sleep (top right button of phone)
2a. You will hear a camera-like shutter sound
2b. Release Home button
3. Screenshot is in photo album

~ Passio


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

cagedrat said:


> Very little intimacy in last two years, despite his regular cialis use and porn addiction. We obviously have a problem on our hands…
> 
> I just wasn't sure about the accuracy of the iPhone app. He is trying to explain away the other things as just being a guy who likes porn and the dry spell because of work stress.
> BUT WHAT ABOUT WHAT I SAW OF HIS LOCATION ON MY PHONE? It just isn't adding up-he tells me I'm looking for a bad situation where there isn't one. My gut thinks otherwise.


Trust your gut. 

and I am really sorry that you are here.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

I trust my gut. I know this is not good. I just try to have all my evidence as full-proof as possible and I didn't know if there was any chance that he was somewhere other than where the iPhone app said he was. It looks like the consensus is that he was at least in that location at some point.
Thanks everyone.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

cagedrat said:


> I have been contemplating a separation from my husband. Among our many issues is trust. WE had a big talk Saturday. It went less than perfect.
> 
> The day before our talk, I had been looking for my daughter's iPad that she had misplaced, so I logged onto Find my iPhone app to look for it. What I saw was my husbands phone at a person's house in a neighborhood across a bridge from downtown, where he works. Can you determine the address? This was in the middle of the afternoon when he was supposed to be at work. I questioned him about it, and he blew up, denied any wrongdoing and swears he was at work. Huge red flags, rather than being assuring to you and explaining what the reason was. What did you say to him? Did you accuse him of lying? There is not any way to verify this. Is the app accurate enough to be 100% sure he is lying or do I have to take his word on this one, in light of technology being possibly faulty? It's pretty accurate. The only times I've questioned it was way out in the country. Obviously, the trust issue remains...





cagedrat said:


> Very little intimacy in last two years, despite his *regular cialis use and porn addiction*. These things are at odds with each other. How old are you two? We obviously have a problem on our hands…
> 
> I just wasn't sure about the accuracy of the iPhone app. See above, and other posts. He is trying to explain away the other things as just being a guy who likes porn and the dry spell because of work stress. A two year dry spell because of work stress? Sex is a great way to RELIEVE stress. And two years? Red flag.
> BUT WHAT ABOUT WHAT I SAW OF HIS LOCATION ON MY PHONE? It just isn't adding up-he tells me I'm looking for a bad situation where there isn't one. My gut thinks otherwise.


*Always trust your gut.*


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

cagedrat said:


> I trust my gut. I know this is not good. I just try to have all my evidence as full-proof as possible and I didn't know if there was any chance that he was somewhere other than where the iPhone app said he was. It looks like the consensus is that he was at least in that location at some point.
> Thanks everyone.


Do you have access to other of his accounts? Email, facebook, etc etc? Good places to look. Does he have a second cell phone?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

UGH. STOP! Some solid stuff above but above all STOP! Keep your Mouth SHUT and your Eyes OPEN. Play dumb wife for a bit. First run the apple angle as outlined above.

Think of me as head of the CIA here. 27 cheating wives and 1 husband (at least) hate me. They just dont know it.

1) Does he have a reason to be at that address ever?
2) Who does it belong to? (generically)


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

I have considered other email accounts. His work email is clean, he erases his history, cache and phone texts. He has kept pretty squeaky clean and I would have no way of knowing of any secret accounts. The snooping I have done has turned up porn, used regularly(occasionally found a history he would forget to delete), chat rooms, Cialis use twice a week (even when I am out of town and when we are not intimate). He doesn't hide that he has it, but I have been counting pills for months and tracking when he takes it…not taking it for my benefit! He is in his 50's and I in my 30's, so ED could always be a possibility... He is very smart and would not leave trails, if he could avoid it. The secrecy and constantly "cleaning up after himself" on his tech devices send me a bad vibe…and then this cell phone tracking has him somewhere he really shouldn't have been. I got the name of the person that lives at the address…she is in her 30s also, actually has my name:scratch head: and is a married mother of two. Have no clue what the connection could be though...


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

weightlifter…I AM LISTENING TO YOU! Tell me what to do here…he is sharp and a hard one to catch. His job also has him all over the 5 local cities in out area. His schedule is sporadic with LONG hours and lots of "meetings."-This fact makes hiring a PI very expensive…nothing about where he goes is predictable or shared with me.
And no, he has no reason to be at that address…ever.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Have you checked the phone records yet?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

cagedrat said:


> I have considered other email accounts. His work email is clean, he erases his history, cache and phone texts. He has kept pretty squeaky clean and I would have no way of knowing of any secret accounts. The snooping I have done has turned up porn, used regularly(occasionally found a history he would forget to delete), chat rooms, Cialis use twice a week (even when I am out of town and when we are not intimate). He doesn't hide that he has it, but I have been counting pills for months and tracking when he takes it…not taking it for my benefit! He is in his 50's and I in my 30's, so ED could always be a possibility... He is very smart and would not leave trails, if he could avoid it. The secrecy and constantly "cleaning up after himself" on his tech devices send me a bad vibe…and then this cell phone tracking has him somewhere he really shouldn't have been. I got the name of the person that lives at the address…she is in her 30s also, actually has my name:scratch head: and is a married mother of two. Have no clue what the connection could be though...


>Have no clue what the connection could be though..< 

Its usually about 5-7 inches long but has some variability given circumstances. Known for shooting microscopic projectiles.

> He is very smart and would not leave trails, if he could avoid it. The secrecy and constantly "cleaning up after himself" on his tech devices send me a bad vibe…and then this cell phone tracking has him somewhere he really shouldn't have been. <

He has no fvcking idea what is lining up against him ATM.

TRUST your gut. Digging up the latest version of "The post"


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

invert the sexes. Mostly I get betrayed husbands. Ill take down a cheating husband tho.

The post:

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! 

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!! 

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell. 

Credit john1068 01-09-2014
Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...

On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself. 

01172014 1033A

There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there. 

Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.

You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.

Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.

Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...

But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ). 

They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.

IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.

IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits. 

Credit rodphoto 01162014 
After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.

From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!

Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.

"spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked. 

Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.

Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed. 

Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward. 

Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears. 

You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. 

The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history!


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I would track his phone while you are talking with him on his work phone at the office. That way you can see if he has issue with the tracker.

Put a VAR in his car. If he is talking with her it will be in the car and it will pick it up.

You mentioned that sex has been down the last couple of years, is it both of you or has he had a low sex drive?

Any new underwear, new haircuts?


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

cialis and you're not intimate? 
i'd be doing everything weightlifter advises. 

sorry you are here but you'll get lots of good advice and support.


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## loving1 (Aug 5, 2013)

I agree, the secrecy on the internet doesn't make sense unless he's hiding something. I can't see any legitimate reason why anyone would want to scrub their internet history constantly. I look up things in my history all the time, when I want to find websites/recipes/etc that I've forgotten to bookmark.

Weightlifter is a pro!


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## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

I'm going to speak from my personal smartphone GPS experiences. (I'm not commenting on the other red flags at this time.)
To answer your question, GPS can be off, very off. Up to and over 1 mile off.
I've tracked myself on GPS. I was literally at my desk at work, but the GPS showed that I was at the shopping mall (one mile away)! If my boss or husband had looked at my GPS data, and based their decision solely on my GPS, they would have easily come to the conclusion that I was skipping work to shop. I have been known for my love of shopping. The truth was that I had not been to the mall that day, the day before, or the day before that.

You need more data. That's why weightlifter is telling you to, "Keep your Mouth SHUT and your Eyes OPEN. Play dumb wife for a bit."

This post does not in any way undermine your gut feeling. I'm in the "trust your gut" camp. 

I just wanted to let you know that in my own experience, GPS data can be very inaccurate with only 1 data point. Sometimes GPS data will only give you the location of the closest tower and not the actual location. For better accuracy, check Find my Friends in the morning after your husband has left for work and watch it or check it periodically throughout the day.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

I have personally experienced wrong locations with a phone GPS (wrong on a daily basis). I use software to track my own phone and it has been off by as much as a mile while I was sleeping and regularly pinpoints my office as 1/2 a mile from where it is. I believe it is getting the wrong coordinates as opposed to the software being faulty.

If he is a chronic text message deleter, you can get some of them back with Decipher Textmessage but you will have to buy it. The free version does nothing for that.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

thebadguy said:


> If he is a chronic text message deleter, you can get some of them back with Decipher Textmessage but you will have to buy it. The free version does nothing for that.


And you will have to backup his iPhone to the PC.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> invert the sexes. Mostly I get betrayed husbands. Ill take down a cheating husband tho.
> 
> The post:
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Weve learned a few lessons here the HARD way. They are contained in my post. It is mine but not mine. It is the collective wisdom of DOZENS.

One of the biggies: NEVER do a soft confront. You end up confronting an innocent spouse or you send a wary spouse underground. BOTH ARE DISASTERS!

Hence: Mouth closed Eyes open. FAKE HAPPY!


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

The GPS my son put in my wife's car was good for the country side where she was fooling around. It was either dead on or could be off 100 meters or more. Once she was parked in a parking lot where her XOM worked and the GPS had her car in a corn field 100 meters away. But it was close enough for us to confront her especially when she told me she was at Walmart aomost 20 miles away.

When I tracked her in the city, more than once see was home and the car was in the driveway, but the GPS showed the car 5 blocks away. Fortunately for me, she ws not fooling around in the city.


And I agree with the others, don't confront any more at this time.


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

cagedrat said:


> Is the app accurate enough to be 100% sure he is lying or do I have to take his word on this one, in light of technology being possibly faulty? Obviously, the trust issue remains...


Yes, while the iPhone GPS is not PERFECT, it will show up in a place significantly close to the dot on the map. It gets muddy, however, in downtown areas, because the GPS works on line-of-site to 3+ satellites. If the person youre tracking is not on the go (driving) when you initially ping them, and they are indoors away from line-of-site, the locator will default to the cell towers for location.

And this may be the case, that he was indoors where you said he was, and you pinged him when it defaulted to the cell towers. And this is VERY inaccurate. 

If you have your doubts, ping him again when you KNOW he is at work...


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## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> From Apple Support...
> 
> Note: If Find My iPhone can’t locate a device, the last known location is displayed for up to 24 hours. Select “Notify me when found” to get an email when it comes online.


NOOOO. Don't use this. It will send the email to the Apple ID of record, so it will likely email her H. That will be a WTF moment for him...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

john1068 said:


> Yes, while the iPhone GPS is not PERFECT, it will show up in a place significantly close to the dot on the map. It gets muddy, however, in downtown areas, because the GPS works on line-of-site to 3+ satellites. If the person youre tracking is not on the go (driving) when you initially ping them, and they are indoors away from line-of-site, the locator will default to the cell towers for location.
> 
> And this may be the case, that he was indoors where you said he was, and you pinged him when it defaulted to the cell towers. And this is VERY inaccurate.
> 
> If you have your doubts, ping him again when you KNOW he is at work...


In the iPhone (not sure on Android), but it also uses the cellular towers for triangulation and if connected to WIFI, it uses that background information as well.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

cagedrat said:


> harrybrown-there really is not a way for me to verify if he was at work. There is no appropriate way for me to approach the only person who would know. I cannot ask a question like that to his scheduler…truly inappropriate in this situation.


You are here posting about separation. If it isn't what you want, you approach that person. An affair is inappropriate, asking if your husband was at work is not.
Follow weightlifter's advice and then ask the scheduler.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

Well….VAR in the house while I was out of town confirmed a prolific masturbation habit. Already knew about that, so nothing new there.

He is keeping his nose clean…kicking myself for ever tipping him off in the first place. Now I am faking happy, making him relax and believe that I am "working on me." NO VAR in his car because I couldn't find a place I felt secure hiding it. He is no longer bringing his computer into the house and his phone is kept with him every second. I guess I need to let the dust settle…wish I hadn't been dumb enough to ask him if he was having an affair. 

Words to the wise…when someone says "just ask your husband and see what he says." DON'T until you are already sure of the answer and have proof or you will send them running underground! Agggggg, so frustrated.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

My son recently lost his iPhone. Find-my-Phone app tracked it to a location 12 miles south of town. He actually went to the location and the people had no idea what he was talking about -- they did not have his phone. Later that week he backtracked his steps and found his phone at a restaurant on campus, less than a mile from his dorm.

Is it possible that the phone really made its way 12 miles away, then ended up back on campus? Possible, but much more likely that the app was off... WAY off.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

A little digging and I found out that my husband advertises his practice with our local newspaper online. The lady that he works with on this has a sales person that works with them, too. The iPhone locator address is the saleslady at the online newspaper…coincidence? And the person at this address has the same first name as me, same age as me, and is also married. WTF does any of this mean? Could it all be coincidental? I'm thinking' not.


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## NatureDave (Feb 19, 2013)

Here's a simple test.

Do you have access to his cell phone bill, or online access to the account?

Both will have a log of all calls and texts, even if they were deleted. You can't access their contents, but you can certainly see if there is a strange number that he is calling all the time and at strange hours or if there are hundreds of texts to a strange number.

If you find that, then you have your answer.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

NatureDave said:


> Here's a simple test.
> 
> Do you have access to his cell phone bill, or online access to the account?
> 
> ...


So, my husband owns his own practice. Our phones are paid for through his practice-office manager gets cell bill. It would have the info for 2 docs, 2 wives, office manager, and 2 other employees. Not sure how to get that-wouldnt be very discreet.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

making an assumption, but sounds like you might have access to some money. If so, wait till the dust settles a bit and then hire a PI. Probably your best bet for getting quick, accurate info. I think VARs and iphone hacking might be out of reach for you since you tipped him off.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

His behavior is suspicious enough for you to act as if he's cheating.

He is not acting like a married, thoughtful, loving husband.

· He won't resolve the outstanding issues
· He behaves like a single guy
· He's secretive rather than transparent
· He responds to fidelity challenges with rage and shutdown

What else do you need to know to ACT on this and EXIT before you end up with an STD?

You are not a district attorney. You do not need to collect evidence. You have enough as a spouse to EXIT.

Get OUT of there. I say stop collecting evidence and get the hell away.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

happi_g_more2 said:


> making an assumption, but sounds like you might have access to some money. If so, wait till the dust settles a bit and then hire a PI. Probably your best bet for getting quick, accurate info. I think VARs and iphone hacking might be out of reach for you since you tipped him off.


I'm saving PI as a last resort. We have shared accounts so missing money is obvious…but I think I could find a way if I dead end everywhere else. PI is definitely a possibility-just not quite ready yet. Lawyer feels confident that a PI would find what my gut tells me exists.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

yeah, i get it, but I also wouldn't drag it out and risk getting caught. you cant get to his phones, you cant get to his bills, you cant get to his accounts. all you have is a var in the house. He sounds smart enough to not sit in your house talking to her on the phone or inviting her over. if you arent going to go out and follow him around for a week, then I think you need the PI asap. Plenty of ways to get money without him knowing. Cash advance on a new credit card. Sell some jewelery he wont miss (or other expensive item). Borrow from a friend/family member with which there is mutual trust


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

....at the very least, start finding the right guy so that when the time comes he is just a phone call away


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

happi_g_more2 said:


> ....at the very least, start finding the right guy so that when the time comes he is just a phone call away


Pretty sure I am done with taking care, living with or dealing with male egos for a while. (Yes, I know all men aren't like my husband but I need a break!) When its all said and done, I think I will enjoy chillin with my kids and enjoying the great outdoors, and perhaps a new career. I am in great shape and enjoy being active, so I will spend some time doing exactly that. I imagine a day when I have a humble little house with my kiddos and I can spend my time working and playing without the emotional yuk in my head all the time that I live with now. SIMPLE is the key to happiness for me-always has been. My husband has never been simple….


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

cagedrat said:


> Pretty sure I am done with taking care, living with or dealing with male egos for a while. (Yes, I know all men aren't like my husband but I need a break!) When its all said and done, I think I will enjoy chillin with my kids and enjoying the great outdoors, and perhaps a new career. I am in great shape and enjoy being active, so I will spend some time doing exactly that. I imagine a day when I have a humble little house with my kiddos and I can spend my time working and playing without the emotional yuk in my head all the time that I live with now. SIMPLE is the key to happiness for me-always has been. My husband has never been simple….


Clarity.

It's a beautiful thing.

:smthumbup:


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

cagedrat said:


> Pretty sure I am done with taking care, living with or dealing with male egos for a while. (Yes, I know all men aren't like my husband but I need a break!) When its all said and done, I think I will enjoy chillin with my kids and enjoying the great outdoors, and perhaps a new career. I am in great shape and enjoy being active, so I will spend some time doing exactly that. I imagine a day when I have a humble little house with my kiddos and I can spend my time working and playing without the emotional yuk in my head all the time that I live with now. SIMPLE is the key to happiness for me-always has been. My husband has never been simple….


 missed my point. I mean find the right PI(Guy). not husband replacement.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

happi_g_more2 said:


> yeah, i get it, but I also wouldn't drag it out and risk getting caught. you cant get to his phones, you cant get to his bills, you cant get to his accounts. all you have is a var in the house. He sounds smart enough to not sit in your house talking to her on the phone or inviting her over. if you arent going to go out and follow him around for a week, then I think you need the PI asap. Plenty of ways to get money without him knowing. Cash advance on a new credit card. Sell some jewelery he wont miss (or other expensive item). Borrow from a friend/family member with which there is mutual trust


which is what I posted after this suggestion


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

happi_g_more2 said:


> missed my point. I mean find the right PI(Guy). not husband replacement.


Haha - I read that the same was as cagedrat did. Whoops.

CR - two options here. Are you friendly with the office manager? Does your husband have any upcoming conferences/speaking engagements/trips? If so, on one of those days, go into the practice towards the end of her day and just ask for the password to the online mobile account. "Oh, by the way, before you leave, I need to log into our online wireless account to find a number I lost - what's the password again?" She'll hand it over, your husband won't be there for her to tattle to, and by the time she comes back the next morning she will have forgotten.

Second option - after all the staff leave, look for a password book on, under, and around her desk. When I worked as a practice manager, I remember the passwords for everything (immunization records, insurance websites, vendors, etc) changed constantly, so I kept a list hidden under my keyboard so I could just change the last digit of the existing password and mark it on my sheet. I kept all of the vendor passwords there - the only passwords missing from the sheet were the banking passwords. Dollars to donuts the password for online wireless bill pay is there. 

Good luck. Sorry you're going through this  I am a BW myself and remember the agonizing feeling of knowing but not _knowing_, if that makes sense.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

happi_g_more2 said:


> ....at the very least, start finding the right guy so that when the time comes he is just a phone call away


Sorry I misunderstood. My lawyer got me in touch with a PI…it may time sooner than later.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

dignityhonorpride-I like your thinking. It may be time to go in and visit the girls at work to do a little intel. I don't go to his office often but I do have a decent rapport with office manager. We are not friends but we are friendly and she is comfortable with me. This may be a good place to put out my feelers...


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

cagedrat said:


> dignityhonorpride-I like your thinking. It may be time to go in and visit the girls at work to do a little intel. I don't go to his office often but I do have a decent rapport with office manager. We are not friends but we are friendly and she is comfortable with me. This may be a good place to put out my feelers...


Let's ask this question...

Suppose he's NOT cheating.

He IS behaving in a manner that is ridiculously offensive already.

_Isn't that enough to ACT as IF he's cheating_?

_Do you really need more PROOF before you act_?

That's the part I don't get here. He's already demonstrated enough offensive behavior for you to act on THAT.

_I don't see what the point of all this detective work is_?

It's like you have caught him coming out of a bank with a gun and money in hand, bells blaring, and you want to investigate if he shot the people inside that are dead?

In my opinion he's already given you more than enough rope to hang him.

Pay for a PI and go through weeks of back and forth.. for what?

Are you planning on SUING?

Will proof of him NOT cheating make a DIFFERENCE here?

I don't get why all the police work is necessary at this point. What are you trying to prove? That' he's as big as arsehole as you suspect? He's already shown you some pretty offensive character traits... you are EYE WITNESS to those. Hasn't he shown you enough?

_What is the point if proving he's cheating_?

Just file.

If he wants to be married, he will protest.

If he doesn't, your path is clear.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

Allen_A said:


> Let's ask this question...
> 
> Suppose he's NOT cheating.
> 
> ...


I think its pretty straight forward. If he is acting weird, she'll say "hey jackass stop acting weird". If he is ****ing this other woman than she'll say "hey, i get half your money, have a good life". PI is pretty imperative at this point to be able to make the distinction.


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

WHy all the police work? That's a fair question. Before I break up my family, I guess I need answers for my own head, so I do not continue to give him the benefit of the doubt when he has really just been playing me like a fiddle. There are things I know for sure. I know he is a porn addict. I know he he is a private person. I know he goes through emotionally distant times where he acts like a jerk. I also know there are times when we seem ok. There are times when I feel like I can rug sweep for the sake of my family and want to justify his behavior in order to have an intact family. I need to know the truth to help me have the strength to say, "I am not crazy. You cannot make me think I was just being paranoid. You have dishonored this family in a way that is now irreparable." I need answers to give me strength to make decisions based on fact instead of emotion. I would get half either way, that's not what its about for me. For my lawyer, its about getting me what I deserve monetarily because I will receive more from him if he cheated. For me, it is about strength to confront a man who is beyond hard to confront without facts.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

cagedrat said:


> WHy all the police work? That's a fair question.
> I need answers to give me strength to make decisions based on fact instead of emotion. I would get half either way, that's not what its about for me. For my lawyer, its about getting me what I deserve monetarily because I will receive more from him if he cheated. For me, it is about strength to confront a man who is beyond hard to confront without facts.


Cagedrat, you sound like an amazing lady and extremely rational and grounded when most BS at the stage you are at would be going crazy. Yes of course you need the intel.

My feeling is you have already fallen out of love with him.
I too think the old-fashioned way is best for your 'clever' WS who deletes everything (HUGE red flag) & manages to hide all his accounts. 
Do the PI asap and never mind the money. Borrow from family if necessary and explain. 
*Hard evidence is CRITICAL for you to get the best settlement so bide your time until you have it and store it offsite and in the cloud as WL has suggested.*
Sure see the office manager but be VERY VERY careful.
It's so weird the lady your age with the same name as you and she being at the address etc. Pretty predictable, a work colleague. She would be high on the suspect list. Is she married? If not she may be looking for a sugar daddy. 
How often are you out of town? I also say VAR VAR VAR. Maybe one in his office? Try a pen VAR in his car.

I'll be following your story. Good luck!


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## cagedrat (Jan 12, 2014)

Thanks all. I will keep you posted as I figure out my steps. In the meantime, I will go read and comment on everyone else's stories


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

cagedrat said:


> Thanks all. I will keep you posted as I figure out my steps. In the meantime, I will go read and comment on everyone else's stories


Take it easy and please, do update. Your story my one day save the marriage of someone else.


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