# Should I know everything / Should she tell me



## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

My wife had an affair, lasted 6 months. It was last year. I keep having this questions on my mind, and everytime I try to ask anything we fight. Some say, I shouldn't know all the details, its gonna eat me inside. Int he other hand she is supposed to not hide/lie to me about it. 
My feeling is that I will only rebuild my self esteem back once I know I am "better" than him (for her). But what if he is? 
I wrote a list of questions. Please tell me what is right to as and what is not (some will not make any sense for you, just bear with me. And i'm gonna hide some info, for privacy):
====================================
What was you routine when at his place? And before he got his own place, where did you and him spend time and had sex?
After you came back from the concert in ****(another city), have you ever been with him again? Have you gone somewhere just you and him? Have you kissed him? Sex with him?
When was the last time you had sex with him?
What did you and him talk about your future together? Was he going to support you thru school, including tuition?
When did you break up with him? Did he just agree or did he try to talk you out of it? Did make any (more) promises for the future?
When did he stop contacting you? Did you have to ask him to stop? Did he insisted?
Do you think he has ever cheated on you? (except with [his wife]) Why, did you catch anything suspicious?
After breaking up with him, you kept seeing him as “friend”. Any kiss or sex?
To who in your life did you ever talk about him? For example, “me and [the OM] went to this place” or “[the OM] told me about this”, etc…
Did you ever fight with him? Why?
I know you and him talked a lot of **** about [the OM's wife]. What kinda **** did you and him talk about me?
How often did you sick his ****? Did you ever let him cum in your mouth? How often did you let him go down on you.
Does he think you came every time (or almost) you had sex?
How good was to have sex with him?
What happened the night you stayed with him until 5AM (that you said you slept in the car)
How does it feel to be with a rich man?
Did you and him used to walk holding hands?
Did you feel proud walking with him? For what reason? (he is handsome/ he is in charge, etc…)
He told Tamara that you had had sex with girls. Did you and him ever talk about doing that?
Did you tell him about any of our 3somes and swing club? Did you or him ever mentioned the existence of a swing club in [our city]?
Did he ever give ANY gift to you? Did you give any to him? 
When I was in Miami, is it true that you didn’t go anywhere with him other than the game and restaurant?
Did you act like his girlfriend around town? Where and around who?
Did he introduce you to others as his “girlfriend”? 
Did you feel like you were a “trophy” girl to him? Did you feel he was a “trophy” to you? Why?( Why yes or why no)
Did you ever go out of town with him? Where, when, why, what did you do?
Did he ever meet my kids? Did you meet his (the ogre)?
Did you ever tell him about how much money I make, our financial problems, or anything like that?
How did you interact with him at the dart games after you decided to not leave me? (Any touching, talking, what subjects of conversation, any reference to the affair, or things you used to do or places you went)
Were you and him open about being together at the games? 
Do you think he has a fancy car?
Did he ever drove fast with you in the car? (did you ever thought “he is going too fast”, or told him to drive slower)
Did he ever carried his gun on him (his body, concealed)? Did he ever had it in his car? Have you ever seen his gun?
What kinda clothes did he use after work? How did you like it?
================================================== ====

Thanks yall!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

regret143 you should know that she will tell you whatever you ask. So you have to ask at least a few things she won't like answering but they need to be things that won't drive you nuts.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Nobody here can answer your questions about what is "right" and what is "not right." People handle specific details differently. You sound like the type that needs VERY specific detail, and that's not wrong. Is it right and healthy??? That differs for all of us.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

There is no right or wrong here, if answering the questions help you, then fine. However, I don't see much that would really help you move forward. If you ask a question, she should be willing to answer to help you move forward, but never ask questions you don't want the answer to. Personally, if it was me, I would put your efforts into moving forward, not looking backwards, but hey that is just me.


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

Thundarr said:


> regret143 you should know that she will tell you whatever you ask. So you have to ask at least a few things she won't like answering but they need to be things that won't drive you nuts.


She has refused to answer my questions. And when she does, she tries to do it at the bare minimum. She won't lie, but she will give the shortest answer possible. It is like she is trying to just "check mark" the question as "answered", instead of fulfilling my curiosity.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

regret143 said:


> She has refused to answer my questions. And when she does, she tries to do it at the bare minimum. She won't lie, but she will give the shortest answer possible. It is like she is trying to just "check mark" the question as "answered", instead of fulfilling my curiosity.


This is called trickle truth. A google search can explain it better than I can. I will just say that until she's ready and willing to tell anything you ask that you're not reconciling and you're not moving past this.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

regret143 said:


> She has refused to answer my questions. And when she does, she tries to do it at the bare minimum. She won't lie, but she will give the shortest answer possible. It is like she is trying to just "check mark" the question as "answered", instead of fulfilling my curiosity.


Then that's a true indicator that she's not truly remorseful for what she's done to you or willing to do whatever it takes to help you heal from her betrayal.

Not good friend.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I can't believe you kept her around for a year! When my old lady was screwing around I needed to know some of the same shyt you want to know and it was a most. It was part of the consequences my old lady had to face to stay married to me.

Bad choices have consequences so as shyty as it is for her to talk about this your wife needs to face the consequences, show some real remorse and start answering the damb questions

Or if you have the balls ....just ask her to leave!

Speaking of balls...you better have some big ones if you go down the "who's bigger" road.
Those questions are not for the weak....The intimate details will kill you. The trick is she is willing to do the same things to you. if not those kind of details will finish of your self esteem.

In my case I had to know and I made sure I got mine. I mean if (well I know) her and her Ap did all kinds of kinky crap she sure as hell wasn't going to hold back with me. Hell give me the chance to show her I can do just as good if not better...right?

Most guys aren't wired like me so brother I caution you be very care how far you go with this.

As far as what you have on your list most of it should have been answered with in days of R.

You aren't asking to much from someone that has true remorse and wants to stay married to you, but I have a feeling your wife is sticking around her plan B for convienence....and when it starts getting to inconvienent for her she just might split on her own with out asking her to leave.

At the end of the day I don't think you can really heal with out these answers...I sure as hell could never of made it this far 5 yrs +)with out the details. from were I'm sitting...I don't see you two together in ayear if she keeps this shyt up.

But thats the me.


Sincerly,
the guy
with the cheating wife


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## unblinded (May 27, 2015)

3putt said:


> regret143 said:
> 
> 
> > She has refused to answer my questions. And when she does, she tries to do it at the bare minimum. She won't lie, but she will give the shortest answer possible. It is like she is trying to just "check mark" the question as "answered", instead of fulfilling my curiosity.
> ...


This! This! This! This!


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

like others have said, no right or wrong answer. it is what is going to work for you and what will work for the relationship. Having said that, you naturally have many questions but even if you were to get answers to all of them, do you feel deep down that will satisfy you? Or will it lead to more questions and more doubts? 

An affair breaks the trust. You've expressed your feeling that you need to rebuild your self esteem by knowledge that you are better than the OM. First you are already better than him because you have remained true to the marriage vows and not strayed. Second, while the path you are taking to rebuilding esteem through seeking answers to these questions is one often taken by someone betrayed and hurt, again I suggest you look deep within yourself and honestly ask if this will resolve these things for you. A couple others have mentioned the alternative path of looking forward, not backward. Only you can decide which path is best for you. 

Are you afraid of the answers you may hear? Do you doubt the truthfulness of her answers? If she answers in detail some of your most explicit questions about their physical intimacy, what do you hope that will provide you? Is your goal to rebuild your esteem, punish her, rebuild your relationship, or some combination of all three? As someone else suggested - be careful what you ask, for the answer may drive you nuts. For example, if you ask her how the sex was with the OM. Suppose she says it was great, best ever. Is that something you need to hear, really want to know? If she says it was just so-so or even terrible is that an answer you will believe, be able to accept or will you always wonder if it was more than that to her? 

Only you can decide your future course of action but be careful what you insist on asking. I know you've already thought this through. Is sounds from your posts that you are still feeling the intense pain that comes with such a betrayal. We can do things and take actions to reduce the pain that may in the long run not be the best remedies.


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

There are answers to questions that you need if you are going to successfully R.
There are answers you are going to need to help you get your head around what she did
There are answers you are going to need to decide if she is worth the pain and the effort required for R
Then there are questions that she can never answer so you can drive yourself crazy.
Know what you want from the questions you ask and keep at it till you get what you need.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Regret

I have only one question for you.

*Why are you still with her?*

HM


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Perhaps instead of being concerned whether you are better than the OM you should be more concerned if you are better off without your WW.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

So, let me get this right.

You guys BEFORE this, was into 3somes, and swing clubs, but it's just now, that you feel you need to rebuild your self-esteem?
Look, I understand there's a difference in swapping and cheating, but you basically had an open marriage to start with.
Look, after all the different sex partner you two have had during this marriage, could you realistically say you never expected this???

Let me ask. At the swing club, was there one guy she always seemed to hook up with?
If so, why was you NOT concerned he was better than you?

My man, considering you guys sexual history, and with him getting his on place, I would bet the affair is underground.
So what you really need to worry about, is his divorce going thru.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

If she is hiding her answers it either for one of two reason generally......first to keep it private and personal or to in fear it will make her look bad in your eyes and you will hate her....the other possibility is that she does not want to perform what they did together with you. Can you handle either?
And her telling you nothing does not work....you may have to flip the d card to get her to talk.....or a polygraph.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

It sounds like your wife wants to rug sweep, there can be no reconciliation with rug sweeping.

See these links
Reconciliation vs. Rug Sweeping | AFFAIRCARE

and for her to have empathy and understanding perhaps she can try to see things from your point of view and why you need these questions answered. Ask her to read this

Understanding Your Loyal Spouse | AFFAIRCARE

Incidentally Oldwolf's post casts all of this in a new light, I don't know how swinging and the open marriage thing cannot lead to this, it is always only a matter of time.


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

OldWolf57 said:


> So, let me get this right.
> 
> You guys BEFORE this, was into 3somes, and swing clubs, but it's just now, that you feel you need to rebuild your self-esteem?
> Look, I understand there's a difference in swapping and cheating, but you basically had an open marriage to start with.
> ...


I don't think sexual oneness has anything to do with this. Actually, it mostly the opposite. We were always together, and we always were honest about everything. Her affair happened almost a year after we quit those things, because SHE didn't want anymore, because we were not getting along at home.
So the key factor, is that we were not getting along.
Btw, I don't know what "the affair is underground" means... :frown2:


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

regret143 said:


> I don't think sexual oneness has anything to do with this. Actually, it mostly the opposite. We were always together, and we always were honest about everything. Her affair happened almost a year after we quit those things, because SHE didn't want anymore, because we were not getting along at home.
> So the key factor, is that we were not getting along.
> Btw, I don't know what "the affair is underground" means... :frown2:


It means you are in serious trouble

55


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I never asked my wife for any details as I didn't want any details.

But if you want the details, she should be honest with you.

Lie detector. That would be helpful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Regret143

I am also a BS, I also needed every detail of my WW affair. I will tell you this is a very painful route to walk, but for me to forgive I needed to know. I know all about the PA but the EA there is so much missing. In therapy I explained to my WW that having to sit and tell me everything was a consequence to her actions. Recalling all of this was very humiliating for her, but I needed to know. I also brought a kids puzzle to therapy, and showed it to the therapist and WW completed. I told my WW this is her affair (puzzle) then removed a few pieces, this is my WW affair to me. I pointed to the holes in the puzzle and asked what happened here? Or over here? It was the best way I could think of to show her the affair from my perspective. 

Some of the gaps were filled, most weren't, and I now have to take a leap of faith with forgiveness. I believe the WS should answer all of your questions fully, not briefly. Your wife not answering these questions gives me a bad feeling along with other TAM members. You are being told this affair could have gone underground. I believe it has also. By that I mean the affair is still active, using alternate communication methods. One positive, is say nothing and hire a private investigator, then wait. I would also install a VAR in her car and one in the house where she talks the most on the phone. 

You are in a bad situation even if the affair is over, you have a wife not allowing you to heal. That means she is not remorseful, which is the main ingredient to reconciliation. She is probably helping in other areas, but in the most important way she is failing you. You may have to shake the ground under her feet to rattle her. By that I mean you may need to start filling out divorce papers in front of her. 

I'm sorry you are here, and I wish you the best of luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

She's not willing to do what you ask, which is to be honest. Therefore, there's little hope for any healing. You can't heal a wound properly when you don't know the full extent of it. 

So either : you end it and move on, or you stay and accept the crumbs you get.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You need to know what you need to know, and any unwillingness on your wife's part to be forthcoming w/ details should be viewed suspiciously, as it isn't at all indicative of either a remorseful wayward or that the affair has _actually_ ended.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

regret143 said:


> I don't think sexual oneness has anything to do with this. Actually, it mostly the opposite. We were always together, and we always were honest about everything. Her affair happened almost a year after we quit those things, because SHE didn't want anymore, because we were not getting along at home.
> So the key factor, is that we were not getting along.
> Btw, *I don't know what "the affair is underground" means...* :frown2:


An affair that has "gone underground" is an affair that is ongoing (i.e. hasn't ended), though w/ a greater degree of discretion that had previously been observed.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

Well, mmm... yeah, ok. I know your story from another site, and I know you're not being very honest with the posters here. As I recall, you convinced your wife, who has never really been very interested in sex, to follow you into the swinging lifestyle at first. Then you developed cuckold fantasies and pestered your wife until she finally agreed to please you and take a boyfriend. After a while you noticed you had marriage problems and asked her to stop seeing the guy, but she had developed feelings for him and later began seeing him in secret. And that's the affair. Is this right, did I remember it right?

Yeah, OK, she did cheat, she didn't respect the rules you had as a couple, but, man... a lot of what happened is on you...

Substantially, you married this woman, who probably just wanted a standard marriage and an average sexual life, and messed with her head and her sexuality, and now you are outraged with the results. Frankly, I'm under the impression that if there's an abusive partner in this relationship, it's you, not her.

Even your list of questions... Half of those seem designed to continue feeding your cuckold fantasy more than to help you heal... Looks like you didn't learn anything from this...

Sorry, I won't ask you what you are doing still with her, but what is she doing still with you...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

regret143 said:


> My wife had an affair, lasted 6 months. It was last year. I keep having this questions on my mind, and everytime I try to ask anything we fight. Some say, I shouldn't know all the details, its gonna eat me inside. Int he other hand she is supposed to not hide/lie to me about it.


Refret143...not know is eating away at you. You are between a rock and hard place. Further, your W is minimizing, trickle truthing, rug sweeping and generally does not care about your feelings in the matter. 

To assist in waking up your WW to the reality of the situation deliver D papers and provide your WW with answers to why you are D so it does not eat her up inside. Enough is enough.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

italianjob said:


> Well, mmm... yeah, ok. I know your story from another site, and I know you're not being very honest with the posters here. As I recall, you convinced your wife, who has never really been very interested in sex, to follow you into the swinging lifestyle at first. Then you developed cuckold fantasies and pestered your wife until she finally agreed to please you and take a boyfriend. After a while you noticed you had marriage problems and asked her to stop seeing the guy, but she had developed feelings for him and later began seeing him in secret. And that's the affair. Is this right, did I remember it right?
> 
> Yeah, OK, she did cheat, she didn't respect the rules you had as a couple, but, man... a lot of what happened is on you...
> 
> ...


Goodness...what a brew for disaster.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

italianjob said:


> Well, mmm... yeah, ok. I know your story from another site, and I know you're not being very honest with the posters here. As I recall, you convinced your wife, who has never really been very interested in sex, to follow you into the swinging lifestyle at first. Then you developed cuckold fantasies and pestered your wife until she finally agreed to please you and take a boyfriend. After a while you noticed you had marriage problems and asked her to stop seeing the guy, but she had developed feelings for him and later began seeing him in secret. And that's the affair. Is this right, did I remember it right?
> 
> Yeah, OK, she did cheat, she didn't respect the rules you had as a couple, but, man... a lot of what happened is on you...
> 
> ...


OP,
If this is the case then you have been playing with fire. Now you are burnt. You must fix yourself before any of this is going away. A marriage is a marriage. A swinging, boyfriend, cuckold lifestyle is a swinging, boyfriend, cuckold lifestyle. You must determine which you want and which you can live without. Inevitably they are as oil and water and almost never mix together long term. Choose one and then pursue that with earnest but do not expect all the "benefits" of both with none of the consequences of either.


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

italianjob said:


> Well, mmm... yeah, ok. I know your story from another site, and I know you're not being very honest with the posters here. As I recall, you convinced your wife, who has never really been very interested in sex, to follow you into the swinging lifestyle at first. Then you developed cuckold fantasies and pestered your wife until she finally agreed to please you and take a boyfriend. After a while you noticed you had marriage problems and asked her to stop seeing the guy, but she had developed feelings for him and later began seeing him in secret. And that's the affair. Is this right, did I remember it right?
> 
> Yeah, OK, she did cheat, she didn't respect the rules you had as a couple, but, man... a lot of what happened is on you...
> 
> ...


As some people from the other site, you got it all twisted. We did have sexual openness, but we also mutually agreed to stop. And then everything happened.
I only found out after her affair that she didnt enjoy sex. and it is basically bc she can't orgasm (and I'm trying to help her on this now).
FYI, she never even wanted a standard marriage, she always wanted "a life partner, whose bond is stronger than a piece of paper". She is very "alternative" her self too.

And as I told in the other website, If you are not here to be constructive, silence is gold.

Thank you.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Regret

Think about what you just said.

"She does not like sex."

"She always wanted a life partner."

Then why did she have an affair? 

I think your view of your wife is a little skewed.

Does "alternative" include lying & cheating? That is what you need to get your wife to think about.

HM


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

regret143 said:


> And as I told in the other website, If you are not here to be constructive, silence is gold.
> 
> Thank you.


Having the complete picture of the situation helps in being constructive.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

regret143 said:


> She has refused to answer my questions. And when she does, she tries to do it at the bare minimum. She won't lie, but she will give the shortest answer possible. It is like she is trying to just "check mark" the question as "answered", instead of fulfilling my curiosity.


If she won't answer your questions as completely and transparently as you need, she's not really reconciling with you.

I suspect she's the same on other matters of the reconciliation, such as expressing guilt, seeking forgiveness, working on the relationship...

Looking for check marks there, too?


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

happyman64 said:


> Regret
> 
> Think about what you just said.
> 
> "She does not like sex."


It is a medical condition, called Anorgasmia.



> "She always wanted a life partner."


As opposed to a traditional marriage. The quote alone out of the context is misleading.



> Then why did she have an affair?


According to her, we were fighting so much, she needed someone's affection and care.



> I think your view of your wife is a little skewed.
> 
> Does "alternative" include lying & cheating? That is what you need to get your wife to think about.
> 
> HM


There is exactly where my problem lies.


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Having the complete picture of the situation helps in being constructive.


Yes, but there are a few people that have been choosing to just bash me for the way I choose to live my life.
I bet those are the people that are also against gay marriage...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

regret143 said:


> Yes, but there are a few people that have been choosing to just bash me for the way I choose to live my life.
> I bet those are the people that are also against gay marriage...


I don't care about your lifestyle. If you both agreed to it and it works, I don't care.

What I'm trying to reconcile is your wife not liking sex, yet wanting an open lifestyle, and having sex with another guy.

These things don't go together. It's like saying I cheated on my diet by eating food I hate.


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

marduk said:


> If she won't answer your questions as completely and transparently as you need, she's not really reconciling with you.
> 
> I suspect she's the same on other matters of the reconciliation, such as expressing guilt, seeking forgiveness, working on the relationship...
> 
> Looking for check marks there, too?


Strangely, she does a lot on seek forgiveness and work on the relationship. She completely changed, for better, in many things. She doesn't fight with me over house chores anymore, she is working really hard on the sex part, which was a big issue for me, she does nice things for me, suprises, presents, run my errands, etc...
Everything done right. Except answering my questions.
I do love her very much, and I am loving her more again. But I think I will never be in total peace without the answers.
I think is just painful to look back at everything, and she wants to avoid it.


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

marduk said:


> I don't care about your lifestyle. If you both agreed to it and it works, I don't care.
> 
> What I'm trying to reconcile is your wife not liking sex, yet wanting an open lifestyle, and having sex with another guy.
> 
> These things don't go together. It's like saying I cheated on my diet by eating food I hate.


I get it.

It's not disliking. It's just not liking. But, it's very rewarding, because it makes people want you and care for you. And she really likes those emotional rewards (for her) that sex cause on other people.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

regret143 said:


> Yes, but there are a few people that have been choosing to just bash me for the way I choose to live my life.
> I bet those are the people that are also against gay marriage...


One must learn to accept criticism as part of life. 

You are assuming to much concerning gay marriage and who are against it.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
As this thread unfolds it is becoming apparent that we do not have sufficient information to offer what you consider to be constructive advice. You have engaged in an "open marriage", an oxymoron in my opinion but I digress. You then decided, mutually, to cease that pursuit. Was her feelings for her prior "boyfriend" brought up during the discussion? You indicated that she is not "conventional" in her thinking regarding relationships and desired a "life partner" with stronger bonds than a piece of paper could imply. Did you coerce her into the "open marriage" lifestyle? If so, then perhaps she no longer viewed/views you as "life partner" material. If you did not, then I am at a loss to understand how a "life partnership" that involves deceit and betrayal is stronger than marital vows.

It seems to me that this situation is about two people who really have no idea what they want from a relationship. It appears chaotic and haphazard both in form and function. You took vows and then made rules allowing the breaking of certain aspects of those vows under certain conditions. After a time, and apparently the formation of a bond between your W and her "boyfriend", you two rescinded those rules and reapplied the constraints of the original vows? Or initiated new rules governing what portions of the vows could be ignored? It seems to me that in order for this relationship to work there must be drafted a detailed set of edicts that must be strictly adhered to and cannot be changed without convening a life partnership council consisting of the two originating members of this union.

Does this not all sound very complicated and convoluted? Here is a suggestion I offer, believing it to be constructive to a solid, mature, monogamous relationship. Restate to one another your vows of marriage, without any caveats, pledging to each other your complete and unwavering loyalty, dedication, honesty and commitment. Do not introduce any exceptions, exemptions, exclusions, deletions or rules that would alter, in any way, your original vows. Strictly adhere to this new affirmation henceforth and let nothing dissuade your resolve to one another. That is the best I can offer.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

regret143 said:


> I get it.
> 
> It's not disliking. It's just not liking. But, it's very rewarding, because it makes people want you and care for you. And she really likes those emotional rewards (for her) that sex cause on other people.


Again, I don't care.

What I do care about is the fact that she cheated on you, and you are in a false reconciliation.

Please tell me that in every other way she's expressed regret about what she has done, sought forgiveness, and is bending over backwards trying to make things right...

I suspect she isn't.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

It appears this is a story with many facets and the information has been provided in fragments. People are responding based on what fragments they have read which skews the responses. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, the information provided is inadequate to any meaningful advice or dialogue.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Look it boils down to this. She cheated. Your lifestyle has nothing to do with it since you both had an agreement but she broke it. Now you have questions and if she wants the marriage to work then she's going to have to answer them.
So what do you do. Sit her ass down and let her know that she either gives you the answers you need answered or take the bull by the horns and let her know that she's no longer welcome in the house and not to come back until she's ready to answer your questions. She's either going to fold and answer you or leave. Either way as of right now your in limbo and you can't live like that. No one can so give her the choice and let the chips fall where they may.

One other thing. You have a novel sized amount of questions. Some don't amount to a hill of beans so ask only the ones that you feel are the most important. You brow beat her with a million and one questions and she's bound to tell you anything just to shut you up so choose your questions wisely.


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## italianjob (May 7, 2014)

regret143 said:


> As some people from the other site, you got it all twisted. We did have sexual openness, but we also mutually agreed to stop. And then everything happened.


You did have that kind of sexual openness at your insistence, if I remember correctly. Especially on the "cuckold" part, I seem to remember that she wasn't up for it, you had to insist to convince her, is that right?
It's very hard to make that kind of lifestyle work in the long, or even medium, run (actually all the people who engaged in it that I know firsthand, ended up with messy divorces and a lot of drama, but I know that some say they were able to keep it up for years, so I guess it's possible), and it's just impossible if someone in the couple is not entering it in full convinction and half heartedly. Not everyone is able to keep sexual intimacy and the development of feelings strictly separated. To "force" your wife into something like this is, frankly, asking for trouble, IMO. 


regret143 said:


> she never even wanted a standard marriage, she always wanted "a life partner, whose bond is stronger than a piece of paper"


That's exactly what a standard marriage should be about, man.


regret143 said:


> And as I told in the other website, If you are not here to be constructive,


Yeah, this one's really great... I guess the best way to get constructive advice is keeping 3/4 of the background story conveniently hidden...


regret143 said:


> silence is gold.


Ever heard about democracy and freedom of speech, my Open Minded friend?



regret143 said:


> Yes, but there are a few people that have been choosing to just bash me for the way I choose to live my life.
> I bet those are the people that are also against gay marriage...


I have a lot of gay friends and I wholeheartedly support gay marriage. I never bashed anyone for the way they choose to live their lives, but I don't like people who drag their partners into their choices, like them or not.






6301 said:


> You have a novel sized amount of questions. Some don't amount to a hill of beans


That's because, I suspect, most of them are not for healing, but for pursuing his cuckold fantasy...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think you should just start over and don't ever stray from a monogamous path again. It wasn't for your wife. Apparently you coerced her. Stupid as hell.

Maybe you don't deserve to know details given your history.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

italianjob said:


> You did have that kind of sexual openness at your insistence, if I remember correctly. Especially on the "cuckold" part, I seem to remember that she wasn't up for it, you had to insist to convince her, is that right?
> It's very hard to make that kind of lifestyle work in the long, or even medium, run (actually all the people who engaged in it that I know firsthand, ended up with messy divorces and a lot of drama, but I know that some say they were able to keep it up for years, so I guess it's possible), and it's just impossible if someone in the couple is not entering it in full convinction and half heartedly. Not everyone is able to keep sexual intimacy and the development of feelings strictly separated. To "force" your wife into something like this is, frankly, asking for trouble, IMO.
> 
> That's exactly what a standard marriage should be about, man.
> ...


The small amount of info Italianjob added to this did make a lot of the questions he "needs" answered make a lot more sense. The trophy questions in particular, I found those peculiar and thought the answers could be disastrous to a man who doesn't have this particular way of thinking.

If you are both out of the lifestyle now, having the answers to feed the need you were getting met while swinging is not healthy. Are you both in counseling? It sounds like some intense MC is needed, IMO probably a waste of time, forcing your wife into swinging effectively ended your marriage.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

OMG. If this is true:



italianjob said:


> Well, mmm... yeah, ok. I know your story from another site, and I know you're not being very honest with the posters here. As I recall, you convinced your wife, who has never really been very interested in sex, to follow you into the swinging lifestyle at first. Then you developed cuckold fantasies and pestered your wife until she finally agreed to please you and take a boyfriend. After a while you noticed you had marriage problems and asked her to stop seeing the guy, but she had developed feelings for him and later began seeing him in secret. And that's the affair. Is this right, did I remember it right?


Then this is definitely true:



italianjob said:


> Substantially, you married this woman, who probably just wanted a standard marriage and an average sexual life, and messed with her head and her sexuality, and now you are outraged with the results. Frankly, I'm under the impression that if there's an abusive partner in this relationship, it's you, not her.
> 
> Sorry, I won't ask you what you are doing still with her, but what is she doing still with you...


And, assuming the above is true, I would say *all *of this is on you. Cut the poor woman lose so she can have a real marriage with a real man who actually cherishes her.

Yuck. How could you?


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Considering your past, I think you should first verify that there is no active affair, PA or EA at this time.
If after verifying there is nothing either way, then you must find a way to live without knowing.
Although you could do as a poster did with the puzzle.
You might also search within yourself to see if this really bother you because you wasn't there to see it.
Hey, I'm sorry, but this marriage, and Italianjob info really makes this hard to advise on.

Oh, I don't give a damn what others do, as long as they are not abusing someone against their will.
Your marriage is nothing new to me. I have friends covering damn near all facets my man.


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> I think you should just start over and don't ever stray from a monogamous path again. It wasn't for your wife. Apparently you coerced her. Stupid as hell.
> 
> Maybe you don't deserve to know details given your history.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did not coerce her! Why people keep saying this?!?!


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

This is what I would do (no exp. with affairs, but was in an open marriage for a time.) I would ask her ALL details, then decide if you can live with her answers, and if so- never bring this up again! Unless she is showing signs of an affair (secret texts, secret apps for texts, unaccounted time, GNO, etc..) Forgive her or not, but she must be OPEN and Remorseful!


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> OMG. If this is true:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She is the one who asked to not end the marriage! I was very content with the divorce, with her moving out and me raising 2 kids alone!
A quick read to your threads shows how much of an uptight [female dog here] you must be. No wonder your own husband won't open up with you!


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Yeah, you clearly dug your own grave and are only here looking for validation.

You are not going to find that on TAM, you are in the wrong crowd.

For the most part people here tend to hold individuals accountable for their actions, not side with them just because they posted a new thread.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

This is one in a thousand threads that I have actually read the mob turning on the alleged BS

Interesting !

55


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

regret143 said:


> She is the one who asked to not end the marriage! I was very content with the divorce, with her moving out and me raising 2 kids alone!
> A quick read to your threads shows how much of an uptight [female dog here] you must be. No wonder your own husband won't open up with you!


Yes. I am definitely so uptight that I have no trouble understanding how a woman would lose all respect for herself and her husband and have an affair if he talked her into swinging. And why she would be disinclined to want to answer his questions about her affair if he was the one who pushed her to have sex with other people when she was initially reluctant. Yep. I am so uptight. It's amazing I can even lean forward far enough to get my fingers on the keyboard with the huge pole I have jammed up my butt.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

regret143 said:


> Strangely, she does a lot on seek forgiveness and work on the relationship. She completely changed, for better, in many things. She doesn't fight with me over house chores anymore, she is working really hard on the sex part, which was a big issue for me, she does nice things for me, suprises, presents, run my errands, etc...
> Everything done right. Except answering my questions.
> I do love her very much, and I am loving her more again. But I think I will never be in total peace without the answers.
> I think is just painful to look back at everything, and she wants to avoid it.


Most of those things to me are just table stakes for reconciliation, not the reconciliation itself. 

How is she seeking forgiveness?

How does she express regret?

How does she provide transparency in an effort to regain trust?

When you tell her you need details so that you can move on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

italianjob said:


> Well, mmm... yeah, ok. I know your story from another site, and I know you're not being very honest with the posters here. As I recall, you convinced your wife, who has never really been very interested in sex, to follow you into the swinging lifestyle at first. Then you developed cuckold fantasies and pestered your wife until she finally agreed to please you and take a boyfriend. After a while you noticed you had marriage problems and asked her to stop seeing the guy, but she had developed feelings for him and later began seeing him in secret. And that's the affair. Is this right, did I remember it right?
> 
> Yeah, OK, she did cheat, she didn't respect the rules you had as a couple, but, man... a lot of what happened is on you...
> 
> ...


Really? _*Really?*_ 

OP, if this is true, you shot your own foot off and are now complaining you can't find shoes that fit you, any more.:slap:


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

I guess no one here ever made a mistake, right?

Thank you all for your time, some helping, some bashing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Overcooking spaghetti is a mistake.

Pressuring your wife to fvck other men is not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Overcooking spaghetti is a mistake.
> 
> Pressuring your wife to fvck other men is not.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did I say "go **** yourself" today?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Are you just trying to stir something up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Are you just trying to stir something up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"go **** yourself"

Now I said it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

That would be a yes. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Are you just trying to stir something up?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BTW, checking your posts, I understood how your mother (as you said a "promiscuous, unfaithful woman") made you mentally messed up when it come to sex. 
So please take your sex traumas somewhere else


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

regret143 said:


> BTW, checking your posts, I understood how your mother (as you said a "promiscuous, unfaithful woman") made you mentally messed up when it come to sex.
> So please take your sex traumas somewhere else


One step ahead of you and already knew where you were going.

I am far healthier than you in sex and marriage.

I think you should own your extremely weak and poor choices that caused your wife emotional trauma and give her all the space she wants about the details issue,

if really love her and want to establish a better foundation for your relationship.

You should listen to me and others about this. We have a much better track record than you or have come through similar issues successfully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

regret143 said:


> I guess no one here ever made a mistake, right?
> 
> Thank you all for your time, some helping, some bashing.


Bashing? Gee, no. Not bashing. Just pointing out that swinging leads to all kinds of bad stuff.

This is not the first post where a husband has pressured their faithful, loyal spouse to cuckold them only for the relationship to go


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> One step ahead of you and already knew where you were going.
> 
> I am far healthier than you in sex and marriage.
> 
> ...


Far healthier in sex? Says the porn addict.... :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Please read up on the forum rules: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/2117-forum-rules-please-read-first.html


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

regret143 said:


> BTW, checking your posts, I understood how your mother (as you said a "promiscuous, unfaithful woman") made you mentally messed up when it come to sex.
> So please take your sex traumas somewhere else



It is a public forum. Conan has valuable advice to offer, but you seem to not be interested in being honest about your situation...

If you were honest, you would see that you encouraged/possibly forced your own wife to become a "promiscuous, unfaithful woman" so you must be "mentally messed up when it comes to sex", it sounds so to me. Conan has worked on his issues long ago. 

Be honest and stop lashing out and maybe you can get some help, otherwise what is the point? Are you too intimidated by your wife's lover to confront him directly? Many of the questions you have could be answered by seeing him face to face.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

kristin2349 said:


> It is a public forum. Conan has valuable advice to offer, but you seem to not be interested in being honest about your situation...
> 
> If you were honest, you would see that you encouraged/possibly forced your own wife to become a "promiscuous, unfaithful woman" so you must be "mentally messed up when it comes to sex", it sounds so to me. Conan has worked on his issues long ago.
> 
> Be honest and stop lashing out and maybe you can get some help, otherwise what is the point? Are you too intimidated by your wife's lover to confront him directly? Many of the questions you have could be answered by seeing him face to face.


I agree.

This is getting silly, with personal attacks on people who are trying to help.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Yes. Unlike you, however, I did not withhold information and attack those that were offering advice and perspective on my situation.

I received a lot of help.

You need to own your part in damaging your wife.

Her infidelity never would have occurred without your bad choices.

A very rare statement from me.

You should thank whatever power you believe in that she still loves you.

Give her space on the details and work on being the best husband you can.

You have a lot to make up for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## regret143 (Jul 7, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> It is a public forum. Conan has valuable advice to offer, but you seem to not be interested in being honest about your situation...
> 
> If you were honest, you would see that you encouraged/possibly forced your own wife to become a "promiscuous, unfaithful woman" so you must be "mentally messed up when it comes to sex", it sounds so to me. Conan has worked on his issues long ago.
> 
> Be honest and stop lashing out and maybe you can get some help, otherwise what is the point? Are you too intimidated by your wife's lover to confront him directly? Many of the questions you have could be answered by seeing him face to face.


Not intimidated at all. Actually I have already done that in the past. It was not civil. But since between me and him, hate is a mutual feeling, I'm not sure that is a good idea. I would also find it humiliating.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

All I see is an abuser who is lashing out because the people he was looking to validate his decisions caught him out.

If his reactions to the posters here are any indication, I would guess that we are talking to a classic narcissistic abuser who most certainly does not belong here.

Where is a mod to ban this waste of space when you need one?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

regret143 said:


> I guess no one here ever made a mistake, right?
> 
> Thank you all for your time, some helping, some bashing.


Because all mistakes are equal, right?

:lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl:


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Your display of not being able to exercise self control by allowing anger to dictate your responses is quite telling. You have indeed made some horrific mistakes and you seem insistent on repeating your behavior. You did not coerce your wife into swinging but by whose definition of coerce? If you encouraged her against her will and her natural inclination to shun such activity, it matters not how "loving" your approach was nor how subliminal. It was coercion.

You opened Pandora's box and all the evil it contained. Now you must bear the consequences. Your wife was smitten by one of the encounters and she acted on it, perhaps in large part due to her loss of respect for you. Having your wife be with another man while you watch, or participate in any way, causes her natural instinctual responses to severely malfunction. In nature, the male would fight to defend his female, not watch and participate. At a base level, this act lowers her perception of how you feel about her and subsequently lowers her trust and confidence in you, making lying and betrayal easier than it would normally be.

You must accept the reality of this and, if you wish to save your marriage, you must work to regain your stature as THE male, not a male. You must tell your wife that she is important to you and prove it with your actions so that she regains her adoration and respect for you. You must squelch all ideas about your wife with other men and never express that to her again. In other words, you must fight for what is yours with diligence and determination so as to prove to her that you care and that you will not share her with anyone.

Think of how this affected her as she watched you watch another man take her. Think of how worthless she thought herself to be to you that you could allow this to occur. Your list of questions is irrelevant. All that matters, if you want this marriage to continue, is that you show her her real worth to you. If this advice does not suit your predetermined idea of constructive then ignore it as I do not wish to coerce you into accepting something you find intolerable.

You may also consider corralling your anger and tempering your responses as the posters here can seem harsh but their advice is almost always good, well intentioned and honest. It may not be as coddling as you would desire but it is accurate. Sometimes a 2x4 is required to get one's attention. I wish you and your wife well.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP, just so I am clear, your wife had sex with her affair partner before she hid it from you and that was OK? He was one of the other men you wanted her to have sex with during the openness period of your marriage? And now you are upset because she had sex with him after the openness rules of your marriage were supposed to be changed?

If the above is correct, then I suggest some IC for you.

Thats the only help I can come up with.

WD


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

what a waste of forum space and everyone's time. thank goodness for the ignore option. adios to this thread.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Perhaps it's just me, but maybe the OP should give his mom her computer back and go take a nap.

Don't forget the blankey...


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I've piped to you, yet you still won't dance.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

regret143 said:


> I think is just painful to look back at everything, and she wants to avoid it.


Bad choices have consequences......ya it's painful....hence why it's a consequence FOR HER TO FACE !!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It's supposed to be painful to look back on.......That's why they think twice about phucking you over again.

If your old lady doesn't relive the shame of this affair what the hell has she learned from it?

At the very least put her over your knee and give her a hard spanking for being a naughty girl....maybe that's a consequences she will think about when the next guy comes sniffing around.


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