# Work on it or not?



## Cs4ever (Aug 8, 2013)

My wife and I are coming up on our 10 year anniversary, we have two boys 6 and 8 as well as a daughter from her previous marriage who’s now in college. I’m in my early 40’s and she’s in her late 30’s. Soon after we married we moved across the country because of my job, taking her away from her family. The relationship has been quite good at times, but has increasingly degenerated into arguments over the years. My wife is fairly uptight and OCD (her words not mine) and I tend to be more laid back. Our arguments typically start with her telling me I’m doing something wrong (my favorite was one over how I didn’t fold towels properly- meanwhile I’m thinking “hey, I’m folding towels”), and then degenerate into a fight where neither of us wants to give in. She has a long list of frustrations about me, meanwhile I don’t understand why she constantly has to criticize and why every little thing has to be a personal failing. Some of her issues with me have merit (no-one’s perfect) while others not so much (I apparently stomp when I walk?!?!? How exactly does one change that?). 

She was unhappy away from her family, so 5 years ago we moved back to her home town and I now travel 2 weeks out of the month for work, things are rather hard for her while I’m gone, but at her choice. I try to make sure I do the dishes and pickup extra work while I’m home- but it never seems to be enough. She also doesn’t really acknowledge the time I give up with the kids to accommodate her desire to be home. The boys and I are quite attached and they are always happy to see me come home and sorry to see me go. So much so in fact that they tend to enjoy daddy time more than mommy time which is yet another source of tension. As far as the travel goes, I actually found a job that didn’t involve travel a year or so ago and was prepared to take it but she didn’t want me to because it was a rather large pay cut.

There are also some larger issues in the relationship created by myself. We argued about money early on and I foolishly got a bank account she didn’t know about some years ago- passive aggressive and a big mistake I know. She found out almost immediately after and honestly I don’t think she’s really trusted me since. Meanwhile she holds onto a list of transgressions on my part that goes back years. She’ll mention something unkind I supposedly said 8 years ago while we’re arguing for example. 

Anyway, the relationship has degenerated to the point where we really only interact over the kids and otherwise she does her thing and I do mine. Money isn’t really an issue, as we both work and either makes enough to support the family if necessary. But we really have no personal relationship left save for the kids. We tried couples therapy a year or so ago, but it really didn’t get us very far. 

Earlier this year things seemed to be getting much better, at least insofar as the fact that we were arguing less went. We weren’t really closer but we did seem to be getting along better which gave me hope. She even suggested I go on a trip for my birthday to a destination she’s never wanted to go to but which I have. She then planned a similar trip for herself for her birthday (yes, I know red flag but what can I say, hindsight’s 20/20 and all that). Anyway, I did my trip, came back and our daughter promptly asked me if I was having an affair (she didn't know the separate vacations were moms idea)- which I’m not and never have. I’ve never really mistrusted my wife in the past but I was looking over the phone bill soon after and saw a number of calls that seemed odd, only to find that she has been calling and texting a single friend of ours constantly for the last month or so- as in first person she talks to most mornings and last person most nights. I confronted her about this the day before her birthday (the day I found it) and two days before her trip. She insisted there was nothing going on and that there was nothing wrong with talking to him- he’s “a good friend”, “free therapy”, and he “makes her laugh” (I loved to hear that last one). I essentially told her it was over if that was her position. Long story short she eventually had a bit of a breakdown and we had it out. At one point I was seriously worried that she was suicidal and she simply wouldn’t talk to me so I called this guy up and told him to call her (please spare me any wimpy guy comments, I love my wife and was honestly worried about her, she needed to talk to someone, and at some level love is about putting her needs first).

She didn’t go on her trip (we did a family one instead). Still insists he was only a friend and that there is no problem with her having friends. Essentially told me that she doesn’t trust me- she’s convinced I’m sleeping around on her when I travel, loves me as a family member but not as a husband, that she doesn’t believe that my "heart is true”, and that I’m a mean, unhappy person. Oh and she’s mad that I’m checking up on her. 

At this point I don’t think anything physical happened with the guy (could be wrong there, if I am it’s over, but let’s assume the best for now), I do think it was an inappropriate emotional relationship however. It is clear that she’s been emotionally pulling away from me for a while now and that things getting better was really just her giving up and investing in her friends and outside relationships rather than me. The thing is that our relationship has/had degenerated to the point where we were both keeping score and neither was really thinking about the others feelings. She’d ask me to do something, I’d think she was being uptight or insulting or simply that the request was silly, and would simply not do it because f her, she didn’t do xyz for me last week. She was doing the same thing. As much as I’m angry about her pulling away and all these calls to this guy and her other friends in lieu of me, it seems rather childish to insist that she like/love me simply because she’s supposed to. If I’m not doing something to make her want to talk to me, is it any wonder she talks to other folks? 

Anyway, I’ve really tried to put aside my anger and took a long hard look at how I’ve been acting and am trying to improve my behaviors- no more score keeping, put her feelings first, remember that it’s not about who’s right but how it makes the other person feel, etc… She on the other hand is hurt and angry and frankly not trying much at all. She’s asking for space and pulling away, which of course makes me want to call her more and smother her- all of which I know I shouldn’t do but being away so much with lots of time to think about things doesn’t make that any easier. 

Being on the road and not having anyone to talk to about it is actually one of the hardest parts. Figuring out if I’m being a fool for assuming there was nothing physical, or simply for letting her off the hook for the emotional affair is equally hard. It’s very tempting to just give into my anger and pull the plug, but that’s not good for our kids and honestly I don’t think it’s good for us- assuming she’ll start working on things. But she’s not working on things, insists on blaming me for past transgressions (some many years old), and is asking me for space and to possibly move out of the master bedroom. All the while also telling me that she wants to work on things, knows she needs to stop holding onto past transgressions (she even talked about seeing a therapist for this), and that I shouldn’t take any lack of effort/communication/etc… on her part right now to mean she wants to give up on things. 

The thing is that on the one hand I’m committed to changing some things about myself, really want the marriage to work, and still love her more than anyone else I’ve ever met. On the other hand, I am so angry about the fact that she checked out without telling me, that she gave up on working on the marriage, and at the fact that she can’t stop keeping score or let go of things that happened years ago. I’m also worried about whether I can trust her and whether I’m right about nothing physical happening (I really think it didn’t, and there is evidence to support that belief, but how can you be sure?). My inclination is to tell her that she is equally at fault for this whole thing and that if she doesn’t want to work on it and still wants me to move out of the master bedroom so she can have space then we should just separate. That’s not really consistent with my decision to put my anger aside and work on things for a bit in an effort to save the marriage though- not to mention it smacks of keeping score which is how we got here in the first place. 

This is by far the most painful few weeks of my life and I’m really not sure what to do. Advice would be appreciated.


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

Sorry you are here. Have the two of you been to MC? I know my stbxw used to knit pick at me for things like folding towels etc. I asked her how she would want me to do it and she showed me her way. It didn't stop even after I folded the towels her way. Again I'm sorry your here and the regulars will have some great advice for you.

I'm alway's one to say work on it, I struggled with the stbxw wanting to work on it. It takes two to make a happy marriage.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm sorry you are here too, I think she's still cheating which is why she asked for space. That's what we call "cake eating" as well as. Blame shifting which she wouldn't do unless she's cheating.
Brace yourself she probably went physical, start reading here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

You need to know the truth before you decide what to do. I will ask you to think with your head, not with your heart. Always look at the situation as if it happened to a close friend or brother. What would you advise him?


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## Cs4ever (Aug 8, 2013)

Burned, 

Thanks for the kind words and the sentiment. I’m inclined to work as well, just trying to figure out if it’s the smart thing to do. 

Mablenc,

While there was clearly an emotional affair going on, I’m fairly certain it hadn’t progressed to the physical level. Lots of reasons I think that and I acknowledge that I could be wrong, but I’m going to assume it’s only emotional for now. If only because of the fact that if it isn’t then things are done and I’m not going to end things like that without being absolutely sure. There is certainly some cake eating/denial about the emotional piece and I spent a LOT of time being VERY angry about that at first, but I eventually decided that was rather childish. Helping to turn every interaction into a fight and then *****ing about the fact that she would prefer to talk to other folks rather than me seems a bit hypocritical. 

My biggest challenge right now is holding onto enough of my anger to not be needy while at the same time doing the things I need to do to fix my part of things- which is hard to do when you’re angry. It’s a really tough line to walk and frankly I’m not doing a very good job of it. Not that I’m calling her all the time or anything, just that I’m not as detached and way more emotional/unsettled/depressed about things than I would like to be. I am used to being in control and being the mellow, easy going one. This is really not a good place to be- feels very vulnerable and quite lonely. Given that the person who was supposed to have my back turns out not to be there right now. Given how much I travel, most of our friends are more her’s than mine. All my good friends are folks I work with and you hate to bring this sort of thing into your professional life. 

It actually felt rather odd to be posting on a forum like this, but just putting my thoughts down in words has been remarkably helpful. 

Thx...

C's 4 Ever. 

_____________________________

The only thing that speaks the truth is the eloquence of passing time. 

Poi Dog Pondering, Collarbone

Always remember, there was nothing worth sharing, like the love that let us share our name. 

Avett Brothers, Murder in the City


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## Cs4ever (Aug 8, 2013)

So a bit of an update. Am away because of work for the next 3 weeks. It was supposed to be 2 but my wife asked for some more time. Before I left we had a conversation about things. The week before had offered little opportunity to talk as we were on a family vacation and putting a good face on it for the kids and rest of the family. 

During the contestation she said a few things:
•	She doesn’t feel loved or appreciated. 
•	Doesn’t feel like I support her. 
•	She loves me like a family member but not as a husband. 
•	Is very angry at me for things that go back 7-8 years and doesn’t know how to let go of the anger (though acknowledges she needs to)
•	Doesn’t feel like the kids appreciate her and is very hurt that they seem to prefer me. 
•	Wants me to move out of the master bedroom to give her space. 
•	If we get a divorce she wants us to cohabitate and be the poster children for good co-parenting. 
•	If she didn’t talk to me much while I was gone don’t take it as an indication she didn’t want to work on things. She just needs space. 

I said the following:
•	There were clearly things that I needed to work on and would do so regardless of what she does. 
•	It takes two to get to this place and she needed to think long and hard about how she helped get us here and what she needed to change. 
•	I wasn’t going to give her a laundry list of “faults” to “fix” however. 
•	While I wasn’t going to go out of my way to be mean to her if we divorce, I think it’s unrealistic to think that we could make things work cohabitating as co-parents. Both because it begs the question of why can’t we do that now without the divorce and because I’m committed to working on things and expect that if she isn’t that will likely make things difficult. 

Bottom line is that our marriage has devolved into a constant battle about what are essentially meaningless stuff. With her “criticizing” me being “defensive” and neither wanting to “give in” to the other. There is little affection between us and she clearly neither trusts nor especially likes me these days. Meanwhile my relationship with our boys (5 and 7) is great and to her point they are in a prefer daddy phase. 

My big revelation in this whole thing is that it’s not about her being right and me being wrong, it’s about making the other person feel loved. This was a bit of an epiphany for me and I feel rather stupid for not realizing it earlier. There’s an art to “giving in” (perhaps it should be giving) without having it turn into a me wrong and you right thing which I clearly need to learn. This is actually the major thing I’m working on- Not keeping score and focusing more on her feelings than the issue itself. 

Anyway, I’ve been gone a week now. I send her one small text each morning – basically “hi hope your day goes well” with something funny thrown in if I can. Otherwise I don’t call or text her unless she does me. The goal is to give her space and not seem needy while also keeping the lines of communication open. She called once a day for the first few days, but I haven’t heard from her for the last few days. Which is hard but not untenable. The real issue is no news on the kids this week- they met their school teachers on Friday and their classmates for the first time. So I called her this morning, apologized for bothering her but suggested that if she was going to need space then I would like to setup some process for calling and talking with the boys. As in the past I’d gotten updates on them from her but if weren’t talking that left me in the dark. She didn’t object to talking to the boys and in fact they and I had a good conversation, but she immediately assumed this meant I was getting ready for a divorce and or changing things to get ready for one. I explained again that I didn’t want one, that I wanted to fix the relationship and get back to place were we were both happy. But she was on the verge of tears (didn’t help that she had a BAD morning with the boys) during our talk. I texted her after the call that I thought she was a great mom and that even if the boys don’t appreciate that now they will later and also reiterated that I didn’t want a divorce, wanted to work on things, and wasn’t trying to make things worse by reaching out to the boys. 

She didn’t reply and followed up with a Facebook post to the effect that some days you can’t win. To which all her single/divorced friends gave her a go girl and our Nanny (bless her heart) replied that it could always get worse…  

She’s clearly in crisis and I realize that there is nothing I can really do about it other than stay close to my kids, fix my ****, and not be too needy. But being away right now and not knowing what is going to happen is just about the hardest thing I’ve ever done. It’s also hard to see her suffering this way and not be able to help in any way. Things are bad on both sides, because of things we’ve both done, but it really tears me up to see HER this way. One the one hand I don’t want to make things worse by doing things I need (talk to the kids) on the other I have to be prepared for it to end and take care of myself (build connections with friends, stay healthy, reinforce my relationship with my kids, etc…). 

The problem is that there really don’t seem to be any good choices here and it feels like everything I do just pushes us further away from each other.


Thx...

C's 4 Ever. 

_____________________________

The only thing that speaks the truth is the eloquence of passing time. 

Poi Dog Pondering, Collarbone

Always remember, there was nothing worth sharing, like the love that let us share our name. 

Avett Brothers, Murder in the City


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Put this into your head: It is not your fault. It is not your fault.

Relationships at the micro level are all unique, but at the macro level are practically all similar. Your story is not unlike many of the one's here that have preceded you. In fact I can even say that yours sounds a bit like mine in many ways. 

Now you can do what you think you should do:
-be nicer
-be more attentive around the house
-do things for her

or do the exact opposite, and man up.
-tell her that you won't tolerate any bull****
-demand that she cuts all ties with her "friend"
-get a lawyer

She will fight you, say strange things, reinvent the marriage, bring up old issues....everything. Just remember that is how every wife reacts when she is having an affair.

I you MAN UP, your wife will resent you for it, but its best to protect yourself. She doesn't love you at this moment and you cannot force her to love you. Nothing you say or do will change her mind. You will have to let this whole thing play out but its better that you control the cards, not her.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

You posted your new message right before I posted mine, so I didn't read your new update, but having done so just now, I'll reiterate a few things:

1. All those points that your wife brought up is a script. Almost every woman will say the same thing more or less. Those bullet points are exactly the same things my wife told me. 

2. Your reactions are typical. You are confused but you want to empathize with your wife. Why not, you love her right? But here is the rub, your wife is in "crisis" as you put it only because she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

3. Read your last line again, "everything I do just pushes us further away from each other". I'll say it again......its not your fault and try to realize that nothing you do now will make her get closer to you. Your wife is gone. As counter intuitive as this may sound, but 

....the only way to get her back is to let her go. 

But let her go on your terms not hers.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Cs4ever said:


> Bottom line is that our marriage has devolved into a constant battle about what are essentially meaningless stuff. With her “criticizing” me being “defensive” and neither wanting to “give in” to the other. There is little affection between us and she clearly neither trusts nor especially likes me these days. Meanwhile my relationship with our boys (5 and 7) is great and to her point they are in a prefer daddy phase.
> 
> My big revelation in this whole thing is that it’s not about her being right and me being wrong, it’s about making the other person feel loved. This was a bit of an epiphany for me and I feel rather stupid for not realizing it earlier. There’s an art to “giving in” (perhaps it should be giving) without having it turn into a me wrong and you right thing which I clearly need to learn. *This is actually the major thing I’m working on- Not keeping score and focusing more on her feelings than the issue itself. *
> 
> ...



I'll make a bet and say that you will eat these words down the road. You are trying to empathize with her which is a typical reaction. I've had many revelations before. Trust me. At the end of the day, the only thing that holds true is that you cannot force anyone to love you. Trying to put yourself in her shoes in my opinion will only hurt you in the end.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

This sure reads like an affair. It is a mistake to say only an emotional affair. An emotional affair is worse than a purely physical affair. She is in love with another man. A man she only sees the best of . No one can compete with that.

She probably does believe you fool around on your trips. Its called projection. She does it she assumes you do it to.

Read both books in my signature as soon as possible. If you can't find them locally, follow the links.

Tell her you want her to take a polygraph and follow through with it.

Trying to save your marriage while on the road is useless. You need to stay home.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It sounds like you have rugswept her emotional affair. You would get a lot more help in the CWI section.


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