# Casual Dating?



## STONORIVER

It seems most online websites list casual dating or "nothing serious" as an option. So I thought initially that this makes sense to me. I've been separated, divorce has to wait a year, for 4 months. Sounds early for dating, but I'm the typical "WAW" - although I hate that term since it seems to put all the blame on the wife for leaving the marriage - anyways, I'd basically given up on our marriage 2-3 years ago. Reconciliation is highly unlikely as this point so I am getting myself together and moving on.
I've dropped 15 pounds, exercise, get outside daily, have started volunteering at multiple events and have just started going out on my own. I'm doing all the steps of putting me back together. I'm reading tons of books - I know my communication and my "picker" failed me in this marriage. 

Back to my subject - I started dating a guy who also indicated he only wants to casually date. He's a year out from his own divorce. No kids in either of our cases. He did say if we got physical then he may continue to date, but he wouldn't sleep with anyone else or if he wanted to - he would give me full disclosure. At first, I was good with this. The last thing I want is a full-time boyfriend cramping my "single" lifestyle again. 
When we get together it is fun, he is easy to talk to, we both enjoy each other's company and more times than not, it leads to the bedroom - which, frankly - is quite fantastic after being with an LD husband for so long. We never sleep over though - which again, I'm good with - I'm enjoying a bed to myself, and I dont' have to worry about making breakfast for anyone 
We only see each other once every 2-3 weeks on average. We text/email maybe every 3-4 days. The issue I'm running into is that I'm starting to feel like we're on a loop of second dates. Each one is usually drinks/dinner where we catch up and ask each other the usual early date questions - where would you like to travel, what are your summer plans, how's work going, etc. Light, non-committal. Fun. But getting more awkward I find to come up with conversation since we know the answers to most these early questions now. 
Because we're not progressing on an intimate level - by now in a normal relationship (its been about 4 months) I would expect to meet each other's friends, go out on more adventurous type dates, go out to the movies, maybe even just hang in and cook dinner, not always be in that second "interview" dating style. If we were just friends (without the benefits) I would feel much freer to ask about his dating life, or his feelings for his ex-wife, things like that. But since I only seem him infrequently, I want the night to be perfect - not get sucked into heavy subjects that could spoil things- just laugh, have fun, have a romp. 

Does anyone else casually date - multiple people - where it involves sex? If so, how do you do it without feeling some sort of attachment? Also, why wouldn't you want to pursue that one person at a time (once you get past say, date 4). See if it works out (this doesn't mean jump to boyfriend/girlfriend status overnight and talk about moving in together within 4 months - but take it slow, be monogamous, put your effort in and see where it goes?
I've onlined dated years ago and usually knew within 1-3 dates at most whether this person was worth pursuing, whether we clicked. Then my dating profile came down and I focused on them. It may fizzle a month or two later or it may lead to something. But at least you gave it a shot. 
Do guys just like having a rotation to chose from? Does it help their ego? Is this just common practice now. He's 38 (I'm 48) if that matters. He claims his therapist has told him to stay away from women for awhile. I know he is having some issues dealing with the heartbreak from his ex, then jumping quickly into another relationship, while separated with a woman who then reconciled with her husband. So I understand him being a bit gunshy and wanting to go slow. And I'm kind of on that page too. But now I feel like we've stopped - we're not just going slow. 
I asked him after our 4 or 5th date if he was just "not that into me" since it seemed I was the one initiating our meetups most of the time. He was always polite and responded, usually with a yes, great idea, looking forward to seeing you, hasn't blown me off last minute or anything like that. His reply to my question was "yes, I'm into you as a friend And if that leads to the bedroom - and it doesn't always have to- then that's great too". When I've asked him about his ex-wife, he says, its not something he talks to many people about, but since he considers me a friend, he's willing to commiserate with me over our divorces So it might help me understand his head space more, but is it something I should get into in a "casual dating" relationship? In other words, it is possible that I'm not being intimate enough with him by sharing my own story and he's following my lead and therefore we're stuck, or is it simply what he said he wanted in the beginning - casual dating. 

I've also seen his profile on dating websites where he claims to only want something casual, but if he meets the right person, that could change. Which....well, you can imagine how that made me feel. 

I don't want to give him an ultimatum at this point. I'm still enjoying things. But should I push for more intimate conversations? If that doesn't bring us closer, just chalk it up to him being true to his word and move on to finding someone who is looking for a LTR instead? 

I think I know what your answers will be.....guess I just need to hear it


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## 3Xnocharm

No, DO NOT move on to someone who is looking for a LTR. That isnt what YOU want, so that would be extremely unfair to him, you dont want to play with someone's heart. 

You cannot compare what you are currently doing to your normal dating routine. You are expecting actual dating/relationship interaction, when essentially you two are FWB, bordering more on FB's. Why not skip datey dinner thing, and just meet up for a couple of drinks, then get to the sex?


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## STONORIVER

So that's pretty much what we do. We meet up for drinks/small dinner or appetizer, usually at a quiet pub or casual restaurant, spend maybe 2 hours there, then on to my place or his. Another 2 hours - or so- and then we part company with a big hug and kiss, no mention of future plans beyond "that was fun, we should do it again sometime" - usually in the form of a text he sends me an hour later. 
To just meet up for the booty call means there's no warm up in my eyes. No being friends. No preliminary flirting to move to the next level. Plus, there's always the tension of wondering if the next level is going to be reached that night (it isn't always, though usually). 
Also, strangely enough, I think I would be more up for just a hook-up than he would. I think it makes him a bit uncomfortable to take it to that level - I've done that just once - texted him and said I had just 2 hours and I'd be in his neighborhood . Although it was fun, it really felt empty to me. 

Also, he has stated before that we can be friends, hang out, and it doesn't always need to end with sex. He'd be fine with that too. Which kind of gives me mixed messages? So he doesn't want to date "normally" nor does he want to be FBs. Very confusing. 

I think my definition of casual dating is different than others - guess that's where the problem lies. I think of it as in "slow down", if you're thinking you want to be married in a year, don't email me. But that doesn't mean the normal dating "rules" and progression don't apply - just at a slower pace. That's what I'm looking for. 

Guys (and I guess some girls) nowadays seem to think casual dating means multi-dating and quite possibly multi-sexual partners. Looking back 10 years, I'm guessing some guys I dated were seeing other people while starting up with me, they just didn't announce it like they do now. Maybe its more honest now?


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## 3Xnocharm

I guess I am confused...in the beginning of your OP, you stated:

"The last thing I want is a full-time boyfriend cramping my "single" lifestyle again. When we get together it is fun, he is easy to talk to, we both enjoy each other's company and more times than not, it leads to the bedroom - which, frankly - is quite fantastic after being with an LD husband for so long. We never sleep over though - which again, I'm good with - I'm enjoying a bed to myself, and I dont' have to worry about making breakfast for anyone"

That said to me that you are not wanting something serious. But you are? Casual dating is just that...casual. It says you are not looking for long term or love. Taking things slowly is a whole different animal than casual. Be clear at the beginning what it is you are looking for, and find out what HE is looking for as well. (By the way, sleeping with someone as quickly as you did this guy is NOT taking things slowly, either. It contradicts what you say you are really wanting.) Your current "date" is not looking for serious, so take him at his word and decide if you can deal with it or not. If you are wanting an actual serious relationship, you are going to need to get out of this situation.


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## Gonna Make It

To me, casual dating is getting to know people, and see how you click with no expectations and with no clear desire for progression. You are wanting to take it slow but expect progression- and there is nothing wrong with that- but if that is not what he wants, and it appears from his own words that is not what he wants, then you are looking for two different things. 

My suggestion would be to take him at his word, hang out as friends but drop the benefits. Either he will decide that he wants more and you will progress or you will find that you are just a FB and you can decide if you are OK with that relationship.


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## STONORIVER

I think you're right. I need to get clear I my head what I want. 
I don't want to jump into something serious quickly, that's for sure, but at the same time its been a VERY long time since anyone has made me their priority. Someone who says they missed me when they're not with me. But that says "long term" and love relationship, not casual doesn't it? 

Although I have to say, I didn't sleep with him until our 4th date - which to me is pretty normal when starting a relationship with someone you really click with. I don't think that was overly quick. (same as my ex-husband!)

Anyways, I do need to decide if I can deal with this casual "date". It seems perfect in the moment, but then 2 days later I'm wondering when I'm going to hear from him. Then when I do, I'm smiling the rest of the day. Its a bit of a rollercoaster. Obviously I'm developing feelings and that seems normal, but not if they're out of sync with his. 

I may just need to be alone until I'm truly ready to consider a LTR or "love" relationship.


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## Rowan

You can be looking for a relationship but not rushing headlong into marriage either. The way I handle that with online dating is that I indicate that I'm looking for a relationship, rather than a hookup or FWB, but also that I'm in no rush. I'm looking for _the right_ person, not _a_ person. You can either do that in your profile or within the first couple of emails. That way, you weed out the guys who are desperate to marry or mommy-shopping or whatever. But you also weed out the guys who are looking for a FWB or FB situation. 

If what you want is low-pressure dating - not hookups - then you need to be more clear than you have been. Taking it slow and looking for the right person, while feeling that you're not desperate to find The One, is dating. No need to get specific. It's just dating. "Casual dating", when mentioned online, is generally taken to mean that you're looking for a casual NSA sexual relationship.


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## STONORIVER

Rowan said:


> You can be looking for a relationship but not rushing headlong into marriage either. The way I handle that with online dating is that I indicate that I'm looking for a relationship, rather than a hookup or FWB, but also that I'm in no rush. I'm looking for _the right_ person, not _a_ person. You can either do that in your profile or within the first couple of emails. That way, you weed out the guys who are desperate to marry or mommy-shopping or whatever. But you also weed out the guys who are looking for a FWB or FB situation.
> 
> If what you want is low-pressure dating - not hookups - then you need to be more clear than you have been. Taking it slow and looking for the right person, while feeling that you're not desperate to find The One, is dating. No need to get specific. It's just dating. "Casual dating", when mentioned online, is generally taken to mean that you're looking for a casual NSA sexual relationship.



Thanks Rowan. That is exactly what I'm looking for. It just seems your choices online are LTR, STR, Casual, Just Looking. So I kind of fall between Casual and LTR - more serious (seeing each other twice a week kind of thing) and monogomous but not wanting to rush anything either. But I can certainly make it more clear once I being emailing someone to root out from the start. 

That said, my current "date" in initial emails said he was not looking for anything serious and wanted "casual" but that he was using online dating to see what was out there and what type of person worked best for him. Once/if he found that, he would certainly want to be in a monogomous relationship. So I jumped on that, since it seemed to match what I was looking for too. I figured if we clicked and made it past the first few dates, it would mean we would start to progress - albeit slowly.

Of course, later on, when I asked if he was "in to me" he replied that he was as a "friend" and that he wasn't sure he was ready to be serious with anyone at this point (being fairly newly divorced and still in IC). Which I believe is a polite "I'm not THAT into you." Then again, you can't know exactly what the other person is going through. Perhaps he's just terrified of getting close to anyone and keeps me (or even other girls he may be dating) at arms length. 

Also, I think I have my own issues to work out because there is a part of me that wants to "rush" things. Not into a marriage, but into finding someone special and getting to enjoy once again all the things I was missing in marriage going back several years now- attention, affection, holding hands, intimate conversations, etc. Casual dating really only meets a few needs: some fun in connecting with another person, meeting some new/different people, sex, a limited amount of attention and affection and takes the edge of some of the loneliness. 

I'm going to start my own IC this week to work through some things so that I can get to healthy place to start fresh and do it "right" with the next person.


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## Rowan

STONORIVER said:


> Of course, later on, when I asked if he was "in to me" he replied that he was as a "friend" and that he wasn't sure he was ready to be serious with anyone at this point (being fairly newly divorced and still in IC). Which I believe is a polite "I'm not THAT into you." Then again, you can't know exactly what the other person is going through. Perhaps he's just terrified of getting close to anyone and keeps me (or even other girls he may be dating) at arms length.



That's exactly what he meant - 'I think you're a nice enough person (and, Hey, sex!) but I'm not _that_ into you.' It doesn't really matter why. This relationship simply isn't going to progress into being more than it is right now. He's been pretty clear about that. What you have right now is all he wants to have with you. If you're still holding out for more, it's because you're doing both him and yourself the discourtesy of not believing what he's told you.


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## Jellybeans

STONORIVER said:


> Anyways, I do need to decide if I can deal with this casual "date". It seems perfect in the moment, but then 2 days later I'm wondering when I'm going to hear from him. Then when I do, I'm smiling the rest of the day. Its a bit of a rollercoaster. Obviously I'm developing feelings and that seems normal, but not if they're out of sync with his.


Sounds like you like him despite you saying you want something casual. That is the thinga bout sex and seeing someone - eventually one or both catches some emotional feelings. 

You could ask him point blank if he sees this going somewhere; and also state what you want or that you're starting to want more. Nothing wrong with being honest.

Do be prepared to move on though if you want more and he doesn't. It's as simple as that.


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## SamuraiJack

Jellybeans has it. 
Its really too bad that two folks couldnt just get together and then decide to press each others Love Buttons...but biology decided long ago it couldnt be trusted to the thinking part of the mind.


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## Hardtohandle

And this is why "Casual Dating" doesn't exist.. Unless its a True ONS or you're really screwed up mentally in the first place..

Because unless you can turn off your emotions like a machine, this sh!t never works out.. Why ? Because we are humans.. 

Humans build towns, cities for us humans to congregate together.. We even have places like bars and night clubs specifically created to meet and socialize with the opposite sex..

So YOU think you can try to pretend to be a new single wild and crazy woman living on the edge ?.. LOL

You see this guy twice a month for 4 months and you're bummed out be you read his profile* "he claims to only want something casual, but if he meets the right person, that could change."*

Being honest, but when you called you STBXH a Limp D!ck and then discussed how you want to be casual. It pretty much read to me like a woman hunting down as much d!ck as she can to make up for lost time.. Mind you that's all good, if that is what you're into.. 

But if you're looking for something serious that is a huge turn off.. Trust me when I say just like women don't like guys that dated a lot, because it means many sex partners.. 

HERE COMES THE SHOCKER.. Men think the same way.. 

Personal suggestion.. Don't be a player if can't be one..

I would say cut this guy lose and find yourself a real relationship and don't play these games, because they are not worth the time and effort.. 

Trust me time will slip by and you will realize you're still d!cking around with this FWB sh!t and be 50 years old.. 

This will eventually become the norm for you and eventually you will get warped enough with this sh!t that not only will it become difficult to maintain a monogamous relationship but it will also become apparent to the other person.. 

You do this enough, you will have enough single guys running around as beta orbiters of sorts that once you meet this right guy it will be very difficult to cut these men loose.. 

I'm tell you this because the current GF didn't get it until I cut her loose.. Only then did she understand and look to fix things with me.. But it literally took me saying fvck you, I'm leaving for her to chase me down in the hallway of her building..

I've seen my good friend fall into this trap as well as a guy.. It just seems you're looking for something better all the time.. This person does this good.. This other person does this other thing good.. This one has money.. ETC, ETC.... 

You will come discover that older people will come with issues, including yourself.. At 20 years old you haven't done much in life to have that many issues ( for the most part )... But hit 40s and its not gonna be perfect.. Both you and your partner will learn to bend or nothing will ever work out.. 

I truly do believe there has to be a willingness to compromise as you get older or expect to be alone...


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## STONORIVER

Hardtohandle said:


> And this is why "Casual Dating" doesn't exist.. Unless its a True ONS or you're really screwed up mentally in the first place..
> 
> Because unless you can turn off your emotions like a machine, this sh!t never works out.. Why ? Because we are humans..
> 
> Humans build towns, cities for us humans to congregate together.. We even have places like bars and night clubs specifically created to meet and socialize with the opposite sex..
> 
> So YOU think you can try to pretend to be a new single wild and crazy woman living on the edge ?.. LOL
> 
> You see this guy twice a month for 4 months and you're bummed out be you read his profile* "he claims to only want something casual, but if he meets the right person, that could change."*
> 
> Being honest, but when you called you STBXH a Limp D!ck and then discussed how you want to be casual. It pretty much read to me like a woman hunting down as much d!ck as she can to make up for lost time.. Mind you that's all good, if that is what you're into..
> 
> But if you're looking for something serious that is a huge turn off.. Trust me when I say just like women don't like guys that dated a lot, because it means many sex partners..
> 
> HERE COMES THE SHOCKER.. Men think the same way..
> 
> Personal suggestion.. Don't be a player if can't be one..
> 
> I would say cut this guy lose and find yourself a real relationship and don't play these games, because they are not worth the time and effort..
> 
> Trust me time will slip by and you will realize you're still d!cking around with this FWB sh!t and be 50 years old..
> 
> This will eventually become the norm for you and eventually you will get warped enough with this sh!t that not only will it become difficult to maintain a monogamous relationship but it will also become apparent to the other person..
> 
> You do this enough, you will have enough single guys running around as beta orbiters of sorts that once you meet this right guy it will be very difficult to cut these men loose..
> 
> I'm tell you this because the current GF didn't get it until I cut her loose.. Only then did she understand and look to fix things with me.. But it literally took me saying fvck you, I'm leaving for her to chase me down in the hallway of her building..
> 
> I've seen my good friend fall into this trap as well as a guy.. It just seems you're looking for something better all the time.. This person does this good.. This other person does this other thing good.. This one has money.. ETC, ETC....
> 
> You will come discover that older people will come with issues, including yourself.. At 20 years old you haven't done much in life to have that many issues ( for the most part )... But hit 40s and its not gonna be perfect.. Both you and your partner will learn to bend or nothing will ever work out..
> 
> I truly do believe there has to be a willingness to compromise as you get older or expect to be alone...




Thanks for your input. Just an FYI...I'm not in my 20s, I'm 47 and he's 38. 
I've made it clear to him that I'm not sleeping with anyone else, including my ex-husband, that I'm very selective, always have been. I've also let him know that casual dating is not something I've ever done before. He asked about our "arrangement" again on the 3rd date - wanting me to be comfortable with it before we went any further- that this was all he was offering right now. He asked again - on the 4th, before we slept together. Then somewhere around date 7 or 8 I stepped back, sent him a long email about wanting to take it further and he then responded with the "I'm into you as a friend - and it doesn't always have to involve sex." line. So at first I said, "I'm not that kind of girl, yada, yada." Then changed my mind- probably (looking back) because I wasn't ready to be alone and hell, yes, I did enjoy the "fun" times and escapism from dealing with my separation. I know, I'm a bit of mess. We didn't see each other for about 4 weeks after those conversations. 
Then I had to initiate a date and invite him back to my place - to which I got the again "are you sure?" response. 
I don't see multiple people - but I think he does. I don't ask. I only ask that he tells me if it gets physical. Condoms only protect from so much! 
To note, this is also his first time casual dating - meaning he was married from age 27-37 so he's now trying to see what he really wants, and doesn't want to get serious or jump right into another committed relationship (he picked wrong before). So is he a player? Not really, he's been up front with me from the start. Is he hoping for "something better" than me? Most likely. Or possibly still deciding. Or just not wanting to put any time or energy into anyone but himself right now. I can't know. 
But you're right - all of you- that I need to move on soon since its causing me this much need to analyze! Then if he really does want to take it to another level, he'll let me know...and if he disappears, that's my true answer.


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## poppyseed

It's up to you but it sounds like you are treated like an escort? The only difference is you are free and he does not need to pay you or he does not need to introduce to his family. Dirty secret to hide, I guess, more or less, to put it bluntly. Anyone better? You couldn't be any better, free sex, no strings, willing to oblige to meet his needs without asking anything.


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## STONORIVER

Poppyseed,
We are casually dating, not simply hooking up. Meaning, I don't give or get "booty calls" last minute. We are respectful. We chat online during the week a couple of times usually. Then we arrange in advance actual dates - dinner/drinks - every couple of weeks. Then it is almost always me suggesting we go back to his place or mine (depending on who is closer) at the end of the date. Where we usually chat awhile again and then things get physical. We cuddle afterwards, some pillow talk, then one or the other leaves with a hug and kiss (no sleep overs yet). 
So I don't see how I'm an unpaid escort? This is normal dating, just open in terms of we're both allowed to date other people (with an understanding that we let the other know should be sleep with someone else). 
The open part is what I'm dealing with - I know feelings are getting involved for me and I'm not sure how much longer I can continue "sharing" him and keeping it "casual". I'd like to know if this is going to go somewhere - develop deeper - or not. If not, I think it will fizzle since it will get boring and one-sided.

All that said, I've let him know there is a possibility (although slight) that my ex-husband and I may reconcile somewhere down the road if he gets help for his mental health issues (long story). So I can't really expect him to put his life on hold when I'm not totally able to commit myself!! 

Life is never simple:scratchhead:


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## Sammiee

poppyseed said:


> It's up to you but it sounds like you are treated like an escort?


She's treating HIM as an escort.


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## SamuraiJack

Sammiee said:


> She's treating HIM as an escort.


They are both using each other for stress release ...which, in principle, is great.

But there is that one little problem...hormonal bonding.
Oxitosin is rearing it's adorable little head and the bonds of chemical affection are starting to form.

Life would be so simple if we didnt have this reaction...

Bloody hormones...


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## moco82

Jellybeans has a point. (Poppyseed does not.)

The beauty of asking a divorced man point blank the dreaded where-is-this-headed question is that, having been down this road, he might have the mental strength to answer honestly. At least 50% of marriages I've seen in my circle of acquaintances were not the result of mutual steering, but rather the result of a series of "talks" by the woman after which the man took the (short-term easier) next step than the hard work of unwinding years of life and starting from scratch (risking comfort, living arrangements, mutual friendships, financial stability, etc.)


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## SARAHMCD

It sounds like he already answered honestly. He's looking at her as a friend with benefits. He's free to continue to date and look for others. He could be doing this because he doesn't see her as totally compatible to him but still likes spending time with her and having sex with her. Or maybe its because she is newly separated and he wants to wait it out for her to be emotionally ready. Or he could really like her but still want to "play the field" - have his cake and eat it too - as long as she lets him. 

Either way, OP needs to decide if she is willing to play by these rules or if she needs more. In which case she needs to communicate him what she's looking for - what her boundaries are. 

Maybe the friendship is more important - in which case they could switch to just being that. But of course, she risks losing him if she cuts out the sex hookup part.


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## Wolf1974

Yep this is what casual dating is. We aren't together and owe you nothing but will Have sex whenever it's available.

Casual dating = we date but we are not friends and never going to have a relationship. Just sex
Friends with benefits = we are friends and occasionally hook up with one another but never enter into a romantic relationship
**** buddy =. We aren't friends, we won't date, but occasionally we should hookup for sex

In the nuances of online dating you learn this very quickly. Casually dating means they don't want a relationships. It's fine so long as everyone is on the same page


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## SARAHMCD

Wolf1974 said:


> Yep this is what casual dating is. We aren't together and owe you nothing but will Have sex whenever it's available.
> 
> Casual dating = we date but we are not friends and never going to have a relationship. Just sex
> Friends with benefits = we are friends and occasionally hook up with one another but never enter into a romantic relationship
> **** buddy =. We aren't friends, we won't date, but occasionally we should hookup for sex
> 
> In the nuances of online dating you learn this very quickly. Casually dating means they don't want a relationships. It's fine so long as everyone is on the same page


Not that labels are so important - but what is the difference in your definition of casual dating vs FWB? Your casual dating says you date but are not friends? Not sure how that even works?


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## moco82

Wolf1974 said:


> Yep this is what casual dating is [...] will Have sex whenever it's available.


Doesn't sound that different from marriage for many folks. But that's a whole different can of worms, chewed over in the pre-divorce section of the forum.


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## moco82

SARAHMCD said:


> Not that labels are so important - but what is the difference in your definition of casual dating vs FWB? Your casual dating says you date but are not friends?


Must be the outward appearance of romance. A casual dater might bring along flowers to your door, whereas a FWB would bring a six-pack of beer.


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## EleGirl

Sammiee said:


> She's treating HIM as an escort.


It's been mutual.


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## moco82

Sammiee said:


> She's treating HIM as an escort.


Depends on the guy's hotness, right. If he's not hot, she's doing him a favor.


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## BlueWoman

OP, I think it's time to let him go. I think casual dating is term with lots of flexibility. You want more than he wants to give. And that's okay. There is nothing wrong with what want. There is nothing wrong with what he wants. But your wants aren't compatible. Time to cut him loose and then find someone new.


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## Holland

Hardtohandle said:


> And this is why "Casual Dating" doesn't exist.. Unless its a True ONS or you're really screwed up mentally in the first place..
> 
> Because unless you can turn off your emotions like a machine, this sh!t never works out.. Why ? Because we are humans..
> ...............................


OK that is just not true, it may be your truth but it isn't universal. Many mentally healthy people are capable of casual dating and see it for what it is, some NSA fun. 

Casual dating is not for those that fall in love at the drop of a hat or that do not have well honed boundaries. It would be a potential nightmare for people that get emotionally attached because of sex.

But yes it is very possible to have a FWB etc and not get all tangled up. Even if one person does start to have feelings then so be it, at that point work out if it can turn into a relationship or just get out, it is black and white with very little room for grey.

Post divorce, 40 years or so of age and a person with a reasonable amount of self worth can quite easily see what casual dating is, enjoy it and just get on with it. For the more fragile people then steer clear untill you are pretty rock solid about who you are.


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## Wolf1974

SARAHMCD said:


> Not that labels are so important - but what is the difference in your definition of casual dating vs FWB? Your casual dating says you date but are not friends? Not sure how that even works?


Because some just want companionship with the other sex. They aren't interested in being friends or a couple. Just dating and sex. 

Fwb has a legitimate basis of friendship. This, in my opinion , is the hardest relationship to maintain.


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## Holland

Wolf1974 said:


> Because some just want companionship with the other sex. They aren't interested in being friends or a couple. Just dating and sex.
> 
> *Fwb has a legitimate basis of friendship. This, in my opinion , is the hardest relationship to maintain*.


I had a FWB and it was good fun. We would go for a cycle, have sex then he would bake a cake or some other non committal type of food (not dinner lol) and then I would go home. We both said we did not love each other, we were not a good long term match but we both wanted some fun and friendship.


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## Wolf1974

Holland said:


> I had a FWB and it was good fun. We would go for a cycle, have sex then he would bake a cake or some other non committal type of food (not dinner lol) and then I would go home. We both said we did not *love* each other, we were not a good long term match but we both wanted some fun and friendship.


Did you maintain a friendship outside of sex? Get together for other things? This part about not loving I guess I don't understand. I love all my friends just never in love. What you described to me sounds more like **** buddies.


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## Holland

Maybe you are right Wolf, maybe FWB but with a leaning to FB's. We have remained facebook friends though 4 years down the track. I am one of those unicorns that can have sex without love, there has to be like but not love.


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## STONORIVER

Just an update on my situation since I saw new postings here. I still have him as a FWB. We communicate - text/email - every few days or so. And see each other once every 2-3 weeks. I've learned to keep my feelings in check so perhaps I'm becoming a unicorn too!. I view him as a friend first, then a lover. I don't consider him a FB since we don't ever JUST hookup. Actually that's a smaller part of what we are. And there have been times we've done things together and not ended up in bed. 

Sometimes I wish we could be more but then I really think about it and its the sex fog talking. We are not compatible long term. Too much alike maybe. We have been in each others lives for about 7 months now so of course I have some feelings. And I will be sad when either I have to say goodbye to him or vice versa when one of us meets someone else we want to pursue a serious relationship with. But he's been there through a very tough time for me - giving me validation right after my marriage ended. At the same time, probably because we see each other so infrequently, I don't feel like he's stopping me from dating. 

And for those questioning who's the escort.....that's a ridiculous comparison. That implies one of us is getting together as a job. We're both getting together for the very same reason. But to note....he is HOT!!


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## SARAHMCD

Stono, we are in such a similar place! I'm trying to sort out my own feelings when it comes to a FWB. I think ultimately, for me, I'm enjoying our time together as friends (I haven't been with mine as long as you) and don't want it to end. Knowing mine is dating other women means that it will end soon. At least in a regular dating relationship you always have the hope that things will continue and progress (although the majority don't). With FWB its purely living in the moment. Which can be great and just what you need but the longer you're together in this quasi-relationship status, the harder it will be to end.


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## Morcoll

Stonoriver, I am glad you came back to update. 

I think after divorce, esp the first relationship involving sex, it is easy to let the normal feelings, wanting progression of the relationship, etc, to take over. 

But over time, you also might realize you really like your freedom. Not necessarily the freedom to screw everyone in sight, but the part where you don't have a spouse to answer to at every turn. 

I had a rebound relationship right as I was going through divorce that developed WAY too quickly and at the end of the day, after 7 months of being bf/gf and serious for most of that time, it was just too soon for me to be in a 'marriage' type situation. 

My current situation is much better for me-- I really like her, but she is VERY newly divorced and in fact has not moved out of the house yet-- still lives with ex. She is a great mom, kids close in age to mine. We started out maybe once a week but now it is like a date a week and then 2-3 other times when later we spend some time together. There has not been a time when it did not end in sex. We are open to date, though I don t know if either of us want to or have a lot of free time to date a bunch of people. The only serious discussions we have had about US were to clarify we are not exclusive but not sleeping w/ anyone else. It is mostly hang out and have fun, and we do. 

In any case, I would just go forward with NO expectations. If you need to communicate something, do it. If it isn't working for you, back off. If you are not comfortable, walk away. If you are ok, enjoy it, because it seems the alternative would be a much more encompassing relationship which would definitely impose on the freedom of your new single-hood. You currently get to do whatever you want whenever you want without explaining it to him, but then you also get to have fun with him. Appreciate that, and at the same time do NOT let it close you off to meeting other people and men-- b/c you now know what you are currently involved in is not long term. 

The best to you.


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## Mr The Other

I am a 38 year old man who has been separated for about a year. I will make it clear and say several times that I do not want anything serious. However, I realize that this will not be taken seriously and that is a problem. 
The thing is I mean what I said. I expect it is the same for him. I had an experience when a lady I was seeing casually rushed me and I rushed away. We are now friends, but leave it there. 
Sorry, I have no insight, but only to let you know that it is nothing serious and (on behalf of 38 year old divorced men), thank you for your patience.


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## Hardtohandle

Not being snarky... I'm honestly asking 


What do you do when you find someone you do like and want to move it forward to being more exclusive ?.. 

What happens to this FWB ? Is he introduced to your new BF/GF.. 

Do you explain this is a person I used to fvck on the side ? 

Or do you pretend and act like you were just close friends that never seen each other naked ?

Personally and just being me.. I am not okay with being introduced or having relationships with the guy my GF used to fvck on the side.. 

I think there is just too much chemistry there for many things to go wrong.. 

As I always say, reverse the situation and let me know if you would be okay with someone you had feelings for chatting it up via text or on the phone when you walk in the door with a person they used to fvck.. Or have them sitting at the kitchen table.. 

I personally had to deal with guy friends issue and it wasn't fun at all.. It made me feel like I was in second place and always competing for first.. I always felt like there was someone ready to take my place at a moment's notice.. And yes I did express this to my ExGF as well. It felt like impending doom.. Mind you these were men that as much as I know never had any sex with the ExGF but I knew they wanted to..

And she even expressed a few comments from them about me and the stigma that dating a cop is.. Meaning they were not on my side a single bit.. Her excuse was she got along with guys better and needed a guys point of view on how to deal with me.. 

So that is why I ask the questions.. 

I think I'm smart but I surely am not smart when it comes to dating.. I'm too open and let my emotions control me too much..


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## SARAHMCD

I have a fwb. For me this is mainly because I'm still separated and not divorced so not quite ready for a bf yet. When I do find someone who I will become serious with then the fwb will end. I would never think to introduce him. It's the same as if you were dating someone and then called it quits. If you happen to run into them while out you explain them as someone you once dated. Pretty simple.


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## Hardtohandle

SARAHMCD said:


> I have a fwb. For me this is mainly because I'm still separated and not divorced so not quite ready for a bf yet. When I do find someone who I will become serious with then the fwb will end. I would never think to introduce him. It's the same as if you were dating someone and then called it quits. If you happen to run into them while out you explain them as someone you once dated. Pretty simple.


That is an answer I wanted to hear.. But I wonder if others feel the same way..

I'm hoping others posting will post here their responses as well to my comment..


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## SARAHMCD

Hardtohandle said:


> That is an answer I wanted to hear.. But I wonder if others feel the same way..
> 
> I'm hoping others posting will post here their responses as well to my comment..


Not sure why you're asking. If you know from past experience that you're not comfortable with a new potential mate who you've become exclusive with still hanging out with a past FWB, you draw the line. Tell her that's not ok with you. 

Are there some situations where it would be ok...for example, if she was childhood friends with this guy and they'd just had a couple of drunken ONS..but it was in the past (years ago) and they were back to being just friends?
Or, if he was a FWB years ago but he was now in a committed relationship himself and they'd remained just friends? 
I think there could be exceptions. 
However, if it was recent and this guy was single and still hanging around your girlfriend? Not cool.


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## Hardtohandle

SARAHMCD said:


> Not sure why you're asking. If you know from past experience that you're not comfortable with a new potential mate who you've become exclusive with still hanging out with a past FWB, you draw the line. Tell her that's not ok with you.
> 
> Are there some situations where it would be ok...for example, if she was childhood friends with this guy and they'd just had a couple of drunken ONS..but it was in the past (years ago) and they were back to being just friends?
> Or, if he was a FWB years ago but he was now in a committed relationship himself and they'd remained just friends?
> I think there could be exceptions.
> However, if it was recent and this guy was single and still hanging around your girlfriend? Not cool.


I don't know.. I'm trying to learn.. 

I'm very square when it comes to relationships.. I just don't like sharing my woman with anyone.. 

I'm trying to understand or grasp what is right and wrong with this stuff or at least what the consensus is..

Honestly I don't think I need to know about drunken ONS.. 
I get that any women I meet is NOT a virgin.. I just don't need for her to tell me how much of virgin she is not.. The same way I wouldn't tell her.. 

But yea I would want to know if someone in the same room had something with the woman I was with.. 



> if she was childhood friends with this guy and they'd just had a couple of drunken ONS..but it was in the past (years ago) and they were back to being just friends?


Okay here is my mindset on this.. 

If the ONS where years ago and in the same time frame, meaning like a fling they had over the summer then I could deal with it..

BUT if the ONS where something they had over Years EG.. Every summer for 3 or 4 years they would go to a summer home with friends and hook up.. Then I would have some issues with it.. Because its a pattern over an extended time and it shows a pattern. It shows that they can not see each other for 12 month and then hook up and its okay after.. 

I guess I need to feel secure.. I know they are only words, but need to feel reassured. 

I've have had some dealings with this and it even wasn't FWB.. It just wasn't good.. I was basically portrayed as a drunk, violent, womanizing cop.. Which you can understand is furthest from the truth.. 

I just think its instinct for people to keep what they have.. So you might not see yourself as your FWB thursday night hook up.. But I think he does.. I know many, many, many friends who pretty much look at it this way.. 

So when this guy comes along and disrupts this thing that someone has I can see some issues arising.. 

Again maybe it was the exGF fault for telling me these things.. I felt she should have handled this on her own and if she couldn't then I would.. But I also look down on someone who fails to protect their relationship from something like this as well.. 

I just think that the longer you socially date.. The more FWB you obtain.. Which eventually causes issues if you don't know how to shut those people out.. 

From the other persons end it gives off the impression like you like or enjoy that sort of thing and you like this sort of conflict.. Its almost like pitting one person against the other to see who wins.. 

Again I just personally seen the issues of this with just guy friends, I can only imagine what someone with some sexual connection would act.. 

So with all of that being said. I'm just trying to learn.. Am I just doomed and this is just the norm so get used to it

Or is my head in the right place and the other person does have a responsibility to handle these situations..

Look I have seen so many crazy things being a NYC Detective.. I've handled and been in many violent situations in my life.. The worst physically fighting a man in hand to hand combat that was wielding a knife that wanted to kill himself and then decided to try to kill me to get my gun.. 

Mind you I was solo and it was midnight and I was just answering what I thought was a bullsh!t job before I got off so the sector car didn't have to.. 

I couldn't call for backup, I couldn't get my gun and fought on and off with this guy trying to stab himself and then me.. A booming 6'7" supervisor pulled this guy off me ( I'm 6'3") and he dropped the knife.. I got yelled at back at the stationhouse but then was consoled.. 

But with all of that I am blind and naive when it comes to this dating stuff.. I think my past relationship was a bit warped and she would tell me that woman having these sort of guy friends is normal. I felt like she wanted to pull the wool over my eyes and let me allow the fox in the hen house.. 

I just never dated a woman in the past that didn't make me feel like I was number one in her life and I of course did the same in return.. But that was 20 YEARS ago..

So again I'm trying to grasp casual dating and what transpires with it..


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## SARAHMCD

In the early stages of dating you will have to accept that she may be dating others. Once you decide to take it to the next level and be exclusive then you should expect no less than being her number one. You shouldn't be competing with other men at that point. That's the whole idea of having the talk about being exclusive. 
If she insists on remaining friends with a former sexual partner and it makes you uncomfortable then tell her so and walk. I don't think that's normal at all. It's one thing if you are hanging in the same social circles and run into him somewhere but not ok that they would be spending time alone.
You don't have to deal with unnecessary drama unless you chose to.

And my ex was a NY cop. He had issues with people assuming he was a womanizer. But truth be told a lot of his buddies were. There is often some truth behind the stereotypes. You just have to find a girl who will see you for you. And you need to expect to be treated with respect. As you treat them.


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## Hardtohandle

SARAHMCD said:


> I don't think that's normal at all.
> 
> And my ex was a NY cop. He had issues with people assuming he was a womanizer. But truth be told a lot of his buddies were. There is often some truth behind the stereotypes. You just have to find a girl who will see you for you. And you need to expect to be treated with respect. As you treat them.


I almost cried reading that first sentence.. 

This woman had me so wrapped up I couldn't handle it.. She scared the crap out of me because I was starting to think that just about every woman was going to be like this.. 

I appreciate your honesty about your Ex.. I was fortunate to obtain a skill from the police department that will allow me to launch into another career.. 25 years is more than enough for me.. 

And yea getting woman as a cop isn't really that hard.. Its pretty much using dynamite to go fishing sometimes.. As a Detective I've had woman come back to my squad looking to "talk" to me.. 

I never ever cheated on my Ex wife.. I had too much respect for myself and her.. Sadly she didn't have the same for me... But that is another thread..

But to me I'm just glad I'm not crazy.. I'm not misunderstanding this stuff. 

Granted I'm a bit insecure and territorial when it comes to my woman. But woman always seemed to like the security of it.. 

Just this FWB things throws me off. I get too attached when I have sex with someone.. 

I cannot even express what goes on with me sometimes.. The closeness I have with someone during those times.. Its just too intense.. The feelings that well up in me during climax.. I literally have to fight back the tears.. Please don't ask me what the deal is because I don't even have a clue what is going on with me.. Its like at that moment I want to pull that person into my skin to be a part of me.. 

Now Imagine me trying to do this FWB thing.. 

I know I have a long way to go with this stuff.. But I feel better hearing its not me.. The Ex was telling me it was me all along.. 

Thank you again..


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## Rowan

Hardtohandle said:


> Just this FWB things throws me off. I get too attached when I have sex with someone..
> 
> I cannot even express what goes on with me sometimes.. The closeness I have with someone during those times.. Its just too intense.. The feelings that well up in me during climax.. I literally have to fight back the tears.. Please don't ask me what the deal is because I don't even have a clue what is going on with me.. Its like at that moment I want to pull that person into my skin to be a part of me..
> 
> Now Imagine me trying to do this FWB thing..


It sounds like FWB just really isn't for you. And that's perfectly okay. That sort of arrangement doesn't work for me, either. It's just not how I'm wired. 

My SO also figured out years ago that FWB doesn't work for him. He, like you, gets emotionally bonded to the women he sleeps with. Sleeping with various women who weren't good LTR material led him to staying in relationships he shouldn't have. He eventually figured it out, but not before allowing himself to be put through the ringer with some really hot, really sexy, really crazy women - that he never would have continued to see if he hadn't already gotten too attached due to sex. Now, he doesn't sleep with women he doesn't already think have some actual good-partner potential. Sure, that means he doesn't get laid as often as he'd probably prefer. But it also means he doesn't end up feeling emotionally tied to women who aren't compatible partners for him. He says the trade-off is worth it.

And, frankly, knowing he's this way about sex makes him just a little more attractive to me, and us a little more compatible as partners. 

The right woman isn't going to think you're abnormal for having perfectly reasonable feelings, expectations, and boundaries.


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## STONORIVER

Hi all, 
Just an update. And I'll start by saying I just saw my FWB tonight so I'm currently in that "fog". But although it was first tough to keep my feelings at bay and then easier, I'm now struggling with it again. Which I like since it basically just means I'm human and sex means to me what it should - a bonding experience - it also means I may have to lose what I have. We had a fantastic date tonight. Two weeks ago we went paddle boarding for an afternoon, lunch and a good chat at his place (no sex). Then we've been in touch about every other day or so since. Tonight we went for dinner and then back to mine. It was just very sweet and romantic and lots of sexual tension. We are both introverts so its been a bit of a struggle for us to open up to each other, but we're at a place now where we trust each other and are much more open and honest. Deep conversations. Sex is so tender and sweet, plus some hot aggressiveness - it doesn't feel like just sex anymore. Cuddling before and after, holding hands, etc. We even make, sort of, future plans. Like, he will plan a kayaking day for us soon since I planned the paddleboarding. 
Tonight I asked him what he thought of me the first time he met me (I was just recently separated - ie. not moved out yet - and worried he thought less of me) and he went on about how he thought I was so smart and interesting - and attractive. He didn't hesitate, just told me straight out how he thought I was amazing - and still does. 
I don't know, its just feeling less like FWB and more like dating. But perhaps that's all in my head - or stemming from somewhere else . Argggg.....these damn hormones.
Not sure I can keep it "light" for much longer. Its been over 6 months that we've been in each others lives! He will be officially divorced next week. I have to wait another 6 months, but I'm definitely separated - no reconciliation possible at this point. So we've taken it very slow up until now. Seeing each other every other week on average. Really getting to know each other without forcing us into something too much too soon. 

At the same time, I have to be objective and not think I want this simply to be "easy" and prevent me from having to either really be alone or get out there and venture into that online dating field. 

Does FWB ever lead to a real relationship? I think I know the odds are low. Too bad. I hate to give him up as a friend since he's been with me through some tough times. Damn.


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## Bafuna

I cldnt help but smile after reading this thread. I think ure just lonely and need someone for the company and for sex whilst you figure out what you want to do. Whilst you dont want a long term relationship you expect this person to be faithful to you i.e sleep only with you because you are really a good person and what you know is that a person sleeps with one person at a time. This guy is also a good person, maybe lonely and afraid to turn you down for fear of hurting you but also trying to figure himself out. 
Decide which you want, leave him if u can handle the loneliness or hang in there expecting nothing of him as you want him to expect nothing of you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## STONORIVER

Bafuna said:


> I cldnt help but smile after reading this thread. I think ure just lonely and need someone for the company and for sex whilst you figure out what you want to do. Whilst you dont want a long term relationship you expect this person to be faithful to you i.e sleep only with you because you are really a good person and what you know is that a person sleeps with one person at a time. This guy is also a good person, maybe lonely and afraid to turn you down for fear of hurting you but also trying to figure himself out.
> Decide which you want, leave him if u can handle the loneliness or hang in there expecting nothing of him as you want him to expect nothing of you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's the thing though. I am thinking we may have LTR potential. The more we've gotten to know each other, the more we've opened up and gotten closer (it takes a lot for us introverts!). We are so similar in our outlooks and belief systems. We have fun. We do activities together, we plan dates in advance (no drunken late night hookups), we laugh a lot, we have great sex. We cuddle, we hold hands, we have pillow talk afterwards. 

He tells me how important our friendship is to him, he's starting to compliment me a lot (he rarely did this before) - honest compliments about my personality and looks, not "hey babe, you look hot" kind of vague compliments to get you in bed. We keep updated with the events in each others lives - good and bad - and support each other through some of the rougher patches. 

It just seems so strange these days to actually have to ask someone you're already both friends with and having sex with whether they want to date! Its not like I'm asking him to marry me or even jump into a serious relationship. Just become monogamous, have occasional sleepovers, and spend a little more time together to explore any possible potential. That would be the only difference from what we're already doing. 

Sleeping with someone else now would feel like cheating in my mind. I think that's how I know I've crossed the boundary of keeping feelings at bay and separating sex from love. 

So do I have the "talk" with him, which most guys hate and feel pressured about or do I hope he feels the same way and things will naturally progress (as they seem to have already done to a certain extent)?

I know people will say "I told you so" and FWB never works! :slap


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## Marduk

Sounds like you're ready to move forward. Or at least want it to, someday. 

You won't know where he's at unless you ask him. 

If he's not ready or never will be, you have a decision to make. 

One thing tho, this lifestyle gets old fast. Even for a guy like me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle

Thanks Stonoriver..

This thread has meant a lot to me.. 

I appreciate you and others being able openly discuss this stuff and be honest about these things.. 

I've been so unsure of myself these past few years.. 

There are times I need to know I'm just not crazy... I've been literally hearing that for the last 2 years from the ExGF that I just started believing it.. 

I don't get how the fvck I could have lost myself in all of this.. 

I'm also happy that you can realize these things for what they are and have a real healthy outlook on these things.. I hope one day I can be secure in myself enough to be able to deal with these things like this..


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## STONORIVER

Hardtohandle said:


> Thanks Stonoriver..
> 
> This thread has meant a lot to me..
> 
> I appreciate you and others being able openly discuss this stuff and be honest about these things..
> 
> I've been so unsure of myself these past few years..
> 
> There are times I need to know I'm just not crazy... I've been literally hearing that for the last 2 years from the ExGF that I just started believing it..
> 
> I don't get how the fvck I could have lost myself in all of this..
> 
> I'm also happy that you can realize these things for what they are and have a real healthy outlook on these things.. I hope one day I can be secure in myself enough to be able to deal with these things like this..


You just have to decide on what your own boundaries are and stick to them. Don't let someone else dictate what you "should" feel. I've been learning mine. Initially I was fine with the casual dating thing since I was going through a divorce and couldn't imagine having the energy to put into a LTR. He's also signing his own divorce papers next week so he was in the same place as me. But now, maybe, hopefully, its time for something a little more. 

Of course, that means having enough strength to have to walk away from the person should they not reciprocate. That will be hard.


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## SARAHMCD

STONORIVER said:


> That's the thing though. I am thinking we may have LTR potential. The more we've gotten to know each other, the more we've opened up and gotten closer (it takes a lot for us introverts!). We are so similar in our outlooks and belief systems. We have fun. We do activities together, we plan dates in advance (no drunken late night hookups), we laugh a lot, we have great sex. We cuddle, we hold hands, we have pillow talk afterwards.
> 
> He tells me how important our friendship is to him, he's starting to compliment me a lot (he rarely did this before) - honest compliments about my personality and looks, not "hey babe, you look hot" kind of vague compliments to get you in bed. We keep updated with the events in each others lives - good and bad - and support each other through some of the rougher patches.
> 
> It just seems so strange these days to actually have to ask someone you're already both friends with and having sex with whether they want to date! Its not like I'm asking him to marry me or even jump into a serious relationship. Just become monogamous, have occasional sleepovers, and spend a little more time together to explore any possible potential. That would be the only difference from what we're already doing.
> 
> Sleeping with someone else now would feel like cheating in my mind. I think that's how I know I've crossed the boundary of keeping feelings at bay and separating sex from love.
> 
> So do I have the "talk" with him, which most guys hate and feel pressured about or do I hope he feels the same way and things will naturally progress (as they seem to have already done to a certain extent)?
> 
> I know people will say "I told you so" and FWB never works! :slap


Good luck Stono, hopefully he will surprise you with sharing his own feelings and you'll find out you're on the same page. Perhaps, since you've described him as an introvert, he's waiting on you to make the first move in terms of sharing your feelings. 

But either way, you have to be true to yourself. Stay strong. Don't settle for less than what you deserve to feel good about yourself. Better to learn now that he has no intention of this going anywhere than hanging on and hoping.


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