# New here and I can't believe I am doing this



## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

I have been with my wife for 23 years, and married over 19 years.

Nines days ago my wife dropped the bomb and said she does not love me anymore. Our marriage has had many ups and downs....

The skinny of it....

I am the jealous type, I control her, and she felt I did not love her.... so she fell out of love with me.

The long of it.....

I had an affair 12 years ago.... she did also. My affair was cause i felt lonley, though my wife never made me feel that way... I worked 70-80 hours a week. My affair though included sex 2 times over many months was not a sexual one, has my wife never refused sex with me at any time. 
After both affairs were over we never really talked about it... Though many times I wanted to she did not. I was ashamed of what i did, but felt talking was better about it sometimes. I forgave her but never i would never forget.

Now 12 years later she said it was my affair that hurt her so much... me telling her at the time I did not love her...It took 8 days of talking to get that part out of her. 
She said me not liking to cuddle hurt her... I told her I do just not all the time.
She felt I did not love her though I have said it many times and always meant it with my heart. Times I just wanted to talk but I got tired of her pushing me aside and not wanting to talk back... there were times I did not want to talk, as I said she does not open up. 

I can't say how many times I have told her she is beautiful over the years let alone over the past few years... She does not see herself that way. I told her she could put on 300 lbs and in my eyes she is still the most beautiful women in the world.

I sometimes don't show my love.... I don't open up the way I want to cause i am afraid of her knowing she could have 50 affairs and I would still love her.

In Dec 2 major things happened...

I had to tell her we have to file for bankrupcy .... for the 2nd time... it's 99% my fault I take that blame... The other is she had to have a hysterectumy.

Now she said she knew for months she was falling out of love with me.... but it's like reading a book and parts are missing....
I thought about maybe she had an affair again... after all I gave her reason to... not showing her I love her,, 2nd bankrupcy...
But up untill 9 days ago i never knew how she was feeling..... I have learned more things about my wife in 9 days then in 23 years...
I offered going to marriage counseling alone or with her.. no dice....

I have tried talking so much but she either gets mad and does not want to hear it or she says I am just repeating my self over and over......I told her not telling me how she feels does not help..

I just can't understand why 12 years later this has come up now. I also told her that it's like a wall being placed in front of me and not telling me gave me no chance of trying to fix it....

She said sex was never an issue.... but 5 days after her telling me this we had sex twice.... We both agreed it was the best ever..

I have had sucudial thoughts I think everyone does... I am an emotional wreck, walking around in a daze and so many thoughts of how this could have happened...

I don't know if she is having an affair she said no... but my wife has lied many times for the sake of an argument.... I never liked that, I would rather she speak her mind.... An affair would be easier to take for me... not I don't love you or have been falling out of love with you in Dec.

I sit and say is it the hormones?? she is on 0.5 mg patch a day??? Or is the past just clouding what she feels as she felt I did not love her still???
Like I said I say it many times and she even said it 2 weeks ago first??? why say it then and why say it first???

I am sorry for rambling here.... no one I know has gone through this and to be honest I am hurting...I miss my kiss goodbye when she leaves for work or a kiss before we go to bed or when she comes home... I had that up till 9 days ago....
I am tired of wanting to take stock out in tissue companies for the crying....


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

If you and her had killer sex twice I think you have a good chance. Tell her you absolutely cannot undo your past mistakes but you are more than willing to do everything you can to renew your marriage. That movie "Fireproof" while a little over-dramatic makes a good point about staying the course. Might want to check that out. Good luck, pick yourself up and smile. Take a break from the heavy talk and get back in the frame of mind when things were great with her without being too obvious.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Yeah, following on from what *martino *says, if the sex is good, then use that as the conduit for communication. Who needs words? Keep getting steamy with her by night and attentive by day. Flowers have an unprecedented affect on most women. Buy some today - don't go over the top, but chose some really nice ones, and put them in a vase with a note.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Martino

I told her I won't say i will change, but if given the chance I will just have to show her...Action speaks louder then words. I told her I would show the love I have for for each day on,.. I also said I can't change the past or make her forget it....I can just try and ease her pain a little at a time...

As for the pick yourself up and smile.... I can't.......I am trying so hard though.... 
After last night I called her Mother in La... to maybe come and live with her... Right now as it stands in 3 months I am out the door... She can't afford the morg payment and taxes and condo fee by herself.. So I thought maybe her mother could help by moving in... this was a descussion we both talked about and she agreed but coulds not tell her mother or ask so I did... I will have to move out even then i told her 90+% of the stuff she could have and she needs a car and I told her it's hers.. I even told her I would help out with money each month so she could stay here...I don't want to do any of that but figured if I did maybe just maybe it can't hurt?

Last night was the 1st night on the couch..... I slept like crap as I always cuddle with my wife for a few mins before I roll over and go to sleep... and I missed my kiss goodnight even more...

I can't believe my life is at a point I am asking total strangers for help....or just to listen...


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Yeah, following on from what *martino *says, if the sex is good, then use that as the conduit for communication. Who needs words? Keep getting steamy with her by night and attentive by day. Flowers have an unprecedented affect on most women. Buy some today - don't go over the top, but chose some really nice ones, and put them in a vase with a note.



Mark

Though she said sex is not out of the question.... I can't see it happening....My wife has never been selfish and always pleased me even if she was not in the mood. I have always told her she is incrediable in bed... the flowers seem like a great idea, and I have thought of that but again last night she wants the divorce as she does not love me anymore...


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

You need to see Fireproof and not give up on her. Even if you do end in divorce, do all you can now.


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## Sensitive (Mar 29, 2009)

In my opinion, falling out of love, affairs, and getting divorce does not happen overnight. It seems there were years of tension and struggles in the marriage, and it just reached a breaking point. I am very sorry. I honestly don't think flowers and sex will solve this one. Welcome to the site, lots of opinions here, and lots of people to vent to.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

I don't think flowers and sex will solve it either. Roger needs to create a new history with her starting now, even if it ends in divorce.


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## wonder (Jun 30, 2008)

good sex means nothing. my husband and i still had agood sex after he told me he wanted to leave, and it didn't do anything. in fact, he said we needed to stop having sex coz he didn't want me to get the wrong idea


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Sensitive said:


> In my opinion, falling out of love, affairs, and getting divorce does not happen overnight. It seems there were years of tension and struggles in the marriage, and it just reached a breaking point. I am very sorry. I honestly don't think flowers and sex will solve this one. Welcome to the site, lots of opinions here, and lots of people to vent to.



Sensitive

I see your point...

I just have a hard time up untill 9 days ago she stopped loving me. Two weeks ago she said she loved me first?? The sex was her idea though I would not have shunned her away.... but it was her idea.

Last night after we talked, she said again I don't love you... I said I would be there for her in any way whether it's money or just a friend... I told her i would wait as my heart only wants her.. before she said it would never happen but last night she said who knows what light happen down the road????

See I don't know if I am getting false hopes, or she is just saying what I want to hear???

Again she never gave one sign of any problems...she kept thinking things would just change.... I knew the jealousy thing was a problem,, but i told her I can't change that all on my own i need help from her... the help I was asking for is don't lie to save an argument. A year ago she was caught talking out of line with a friend we play an on line game with....She had some wine in her... I caught her and she was not happy but called it playfull fun... I told her why it bothered me.. but it was no like no big deal to her...Thats why I get the jealous feelings for things like that....


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

wonder said:


> good sex means nothing. my husband and i still had agood sex after he told me he wanted to leave, and it didn't do anything. in fact, he said we needed to stop having sex coz he didn't want me to get the wrong idea


Wonder

My wife told me the same thing, it was just sex for her...


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

martino said:


> I don't think flowers and sex will solve it either. Roger needs to create a new history with her starting now, even if it ends in divorce.


I am trying so hard to....and want to


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

I just took a step that I am not sure of...

I called a Marriage Therapist and left a voice mail. I also said it would be just for me..... 

I know to be as open in honest if I go....as I saw one 12 years ago again by myself....I am hoping this might make me better understand or help me with some tools to change some things about me...


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## lovingmom (Apr 29, 2009)

watch fireproof. what a great movie... even if she won't watch it with you, you watch it.. get the book... do the 40 days of love...


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

excellent idea contacting a therapist. since you've gone before i am confident you'll go this time. good for you. not only is this probably the only chance you have at either saving your marriage or winning her back, therapy has the collateral effect of offering you the tools you need to successfully navigate your life either married or divorced.

i hope things work out.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Recent Cloud

I waited for a call back form a Therapist, as i caled several... I sat here and let my thoughts go wild...... of how I could have hurt my wife so bad to make her fall out of love with me... Other thoughts entered my head... I called the sucide hotline....

They told me their name and i told them mine... They asked how I was feeling and I said I can'rt take the pain... Then i just broke down....
I am going on 44 and I just broke down....I am trying everything I know not to involve friends and family... I don't want to pass on my problems or heartache... but I had no one else to talk to as no one I knew well enough was there..I felt a bit better then ended the call....I felt so ashamed I called... 
I started to think when the Wifwe came home what I was going to say, don't ask me why....

When she came home I told her she needs to leave for a few days... She can't as she has no other place to go... I told her this is tearing me apart... Knowing when she comes home all I want to do is talk and that I know it's hurting more now and I don't want her to hate or resent me anymore...
She said last night I was fine, and why this all of the sudden... I told her cause i did something I never wanted to do... and told her..I also told her I made an Appointment with a therapist for Saturday... 
She said why did I call the hotline as I said i would never do anything like that... I told her I had feelings whether i would act or not....I got the feeling she thought I did it for attention!!!!!! but I did not!!!

Then stupid me just started to run my mouth again,,,,,I started to tell her about my affair and again she did not want to hear it... then other things were brought up and like white on rice I was back to the same thing how could you fall out of love with me... She said you should have seen it... I said tell me how as she never showed anything in the past 5 months... She waited about 30 seconds and said me telling her we have to claim bankrupcy for the 2nd time... I said that does not mean i don't love you it means i am stupid... Not showing I loved her??? I said it still does not mean I love you...It just means I did not show you.

The bankrupcy will take about 3 months... I know she can't leave... I can't stay with most of my family as I get along enough with them but would not want to live with them. My one brother might be ok, but he is bitter from his divorce over 15 years ago, he would be the wrong person I think....

My wife tells me she wants the divorce... I know that but then says later there is never a chance, then flip flipflops and says she can't say there will never be a chance sometime in the future whether it's a month or a year or longer... 

That alone is tearing me apart.... I told her the love I have for her will never stop...I want to remain friends.... But only if she makes the contact... I want to help her out with money.. She can't understand why i would I said for several reasons... I feel I owe her for going through 2 backrupcy's and cause I want to and the main reason is cause I love her.. I told her it would bnever be a loan... She said I would do it cause it would be my way of keeping her in her life... and a reason to see her..I said I never thought that... I just want her to have money if she ever needed it....

I told her I would wait no matter how long, though I will never contact her.. I said after the divorce if you need a friend call me. If you ever need a hug call me... I would never contact her... But I yold her I will always wait, and never stop loving her... I told her I can because I love you and don't want anyone as no one could ever fill the void in the heart...

She said that was not fair to say that, I am just saying that.... I took off my wedding band and handed it to her... I said this means the world to me, I hope and pray someday I will get it back and wear it with pride.....She took off her wedding band and engagement ring and said you might need this down the road... if I ever need money.... I said noooooooo you keep it... She said she would never sell it and i know she won't... I then took a bread tie and put all 3 rings together and said here... when ever you want to think of me and still fell like I don't love you... look at the rings and remember I want this back someday!!!!!!!! a year or 5 or 10 years but you have to make that call not me... you just have to believe and trust me I will be there to take that call.... but it's with options...

1) I want to communicate and open all doors!!!!!!
Her response.. I might not be able to open some doors!!!! I said thats something I will have to do for her then...

2) I can't take back my past or yours... I don't want the past I want the future!!!!!! so the past stays in the past!!!!!

3) I want to show her the love I have for her, might be something little a day!!!!!!! But everyday I want to add to it!!!!!! This way you will never have to wonder if i loved you...

4) And the most important one is I want the rest of my life with you!!!!!! I will make mistakes, I am far from perfect!!!!!!

She still can't understand and says You won't wait and it's not fair as she is not saying I am giving me any hope or even a chance....

I told her how I choose to wait and for how long is my choice not hers... I told her if she met someone else I don't wish her to be happy ( I was honest) and thats fine... But my choice is to wait cause I love her....

Now i got a look which I am puzzled by it was a look like she loved me for saying that.... I don't know maybe I took it wrong??? but for what ever reason that look just made me feel ok inside.....

I know I am not trying to win her back, though in some ways I might be??? She feels I don't love her but like I said she is not inside me head and heart!!!!! 

I told her i know what I need to change in my marriage if I ever have a chance, she said in 9 days I would not know... I said I knew it already... it's just I need to know what I need to change about me that will take some time... then she asked me what I knew already to change for the marriage....

Showing her the love I have for her, talking and listening more..... I told her the jealousy thing I need help with... Then I said maybe if you knew the love I have for you that would be the best help?
I told her deep down I know she loves me... I told her i think it's clouded with hurt, and bad memories...I told her I know the bankrupty is hurting... and a few other things... but I expressed strongly that I can't tell her the changes I want it has to be shown!!!! Actions speak louder then words. and I know this now.

I again got that look!!!!!! Ok it's driving me crazy!!!

Several hours pass after supper and watching the Sorpranos and something else... She then comes to me and takes my hand and off to the bed room...I said ohhh you want sex?? she said yea... I said are you sure and she said yes.. I said ok you call it whatever you want it;'s still making love for me... I am sorry if it's wrong to talk like this here??? but Incrediable it all I can say.... We let the night on a good note or at least I did... then 2 hours later she went to bed and I to the couch!!!

But I still think does she really not love me??? Did she do it to make herself happy or even to give me shut up sex??? Or is this the one way you can say right now she loves me???

I am lost.....

I have in some ways about 3 months as the bankrupcy will be over... But that is not the problem it's our condo.... Neither one of us can afford it alone..... Only together we can.... If something does not happen by then I am forced to go into forclosure... Even then I have no idea on the ways that works....
So I begin the day with hope and I pray that maybe just maybe I am going to have a better day today and tomorrow...

I am sorry for this being so long.... it felt like a few mins to type...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Roger136913-

I am interested to know more about the background of how she ended up offering you sex. This could be a vital clue. we need clues. Please elucidate.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mark

I can't say what??? I honestly can't...

All I can do is say what I said.. I don't know also if she felt the same way when we made love ( She calls it sex) I still call it love due to what I feel about her.

I want to say it's the way I feel when I told her I will always wait? 
It could be the way I said it when I gave me my wedding band???? On it means the world to me and someday i want it back???

I do know she has said when we have sex or make love it's always been real good... But I do know that before the past 3 times I have changed on the way I have gone about making love or having sex... Before and I mean the past 23 years I always though I knew what foreplay was.... Call me stupid and again i don't know if this is allowed here.. But the past 3 times... I have kissed way longer and I mean way longer then I did before... I always rushed to touch her breasts, or rub her in the other area... ( I am ssorry people if this is graphic I don't mean it to be) but I did not rush like I did before... I took the time to touch her everywhere but those 2 places.... I never knew this in 23 years but I learned that this has excited me way beyond what i thought...

I know women said they love foreplay and yes I do also.... but my definition was not what the word meant I guess???

For all I know Mark it could have been the last 2 times prior and she wanted that feeling again???? For all I know she just wanted sex???? I always ask her after how it was,,,, she said it was great...Then she asked me and I said it was incrediable.... She actually said I was glowing....

Another thing I notced and again it's just the last 3 times... She gave me looks while making love that I can't explain.... It's almost like welll I can't explain as it just might be interputated only in my eyes as she does love me.... I asked her that Friday why she looked at me like that and said said cause it felt good and why did I ask??? I said It just made me feel like you wanted to say you love me??? She said no and sorry if I gave her the wrong idea????

I don't know Mark what else made her offering it???? Again it might be she just wanted to feel good??? or maybe it's the one thing I have not messed up??? But I do know the past 3 times have been better then the 23 years combinded.... though it's always been good for me, it's just it's 3 times have been off the charts....


I wish i knew this is all it takes to make love making better..... As A husband still, and the love I have for my Wife and always will.... I know if I did more of this ... maybe.... just maybe.... she would know I LOVE HER.........


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Roger136913-

Years ago, when we had a difficult situation with a client, I asked my boss if things were any better with them after the meeting. His reply was: You don't always ask "how was it for you" every time. 

Well that's where you're going wrong. You are like someone cooking who keeps lifting the lid to see how it's doing. Don't ask her how it was for her next time.

If you want her back, you have to approach through whatever avenue is possible. If sex is on the table - do it. Hell, it's not exactly a pain is it?

What you need to be doing, is to get inside her mind, and you're not going to do that by asking her what she's thinking. She won't tell you. I wrote up a few tricks here that might help: Romance for Men


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

roger13--

incredible...remove one bankruptcy and the affairs from your story and it sounds like what i'm going through.

the only advice i have is honor. honor your wife, whether you're with her or not. she doesn't have to be there to be honored. whatever you do, do the right thing for her, make the right decisions. when someone offers to take you out and get you drunk, say thanks but no thanks. being a drunk doesn't honor her. 

if some babe at work extends and offer for a night out, thanks but no thanks. honor the wife no matter what.

take care my friend. i'll be monitoring your thread and wishing you all the best.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mark

I tell my wife she is beautiful alot.... though she never feels that way... always a little joke like yea you need glasses... I say to her in my eyes she is the most beautiful women I ever met...If placed in a line and at teh end of even a million naked models I will always push them aside to get to the back to her...

In 23 years I can understand at times why she would not believe me... My affair.... my not expressing to her now what I truly feel...but I always meant it...

She see's herself as overweight ........ not pretty..... her stomach does have excessive skin... she complains alot about that.... I telll her it's one of the best parts about her in many ways as she gave birth to a child...

Right now she weighs 196 lbs her loswet weight 130? 131??? And I always told her i loved her body.........She can't figure out why.... I tell her put on 300 lbs it won't change what I see!!!!!!!

I again told her last night that taking my time to look at her meant alot as I might never get to see her like this due to the divorce and all.... but again I expressed she has a hot body....and I love it when ever I see her naked or a glimps of it....

I read somewhere in here about someone saying for forget implants I want the real thing??? I have aways felt that also.... My Wife might say her breasts sag... but I just look at it there is more to love....


Thanks for the link
I wish I have read that months ago....But maybe .... I can at least make her happy even in the only way I know till she files for divorce?


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Voivod

I feel for you....

I am not a drinker..... But when our vacations were Las Vegas I would let lose more with her and yes drink LOL...

I don't have to worry about babes at work and I have been disabled for the past 11 years.... Need a 3rd back operation and gave up as the other 2 were too much and no promises the 3rd will be better LOL...

Kudos on honoring your wife in the best way you know...I can't imagine the pain you have with 4 Children also... But I do know people who have gone though the drinking and got help and can say it helped the marriage more then words alone... 

I came to this forum and said I can't believe I am doing this...

Maybe it was easier then i thought.... No judgement as no one knows me by other then my name here?? Also it just seems easier to open up to a stranger then a friend or family member????

I also can't believe people know how i am feeling????
But no matter what happens, no matter if I stopped posting now.. I thank those who have helped and allowed me to vent......I if I ever forget to say it... let me say it now...

Thank You everyone!!!!!!!!!

Voivod

Please feel free to contact me in a private message if you want...talking might not help but I have learned it won't hurt...

Best of luck and please keep me posted!!!!!!


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## bluemoon (Mar 23, 2009)

I actually teared up for you while reading your story, and felt your hurt. I have just been through a similar situation with my husband and it was hands-down the most difficult time in my life, ever. He gave me the "I don't love you anymore" line also and it was the most horribly painful feeling in the entire world. He ended up moving out for a month and I vividly remember how HARD that is, and how painful. How all you want is what you JUST had and didn't even know you were about to lose. It's HARD. 

Calling a therapist was an excellent step. Regardless of what happens between you and your wife, having someone to talk to and help YOU through this is crucial. I have been seeing a therapist on my own (husband won't go) and it has been a tremendous help. So good job there!

Keep coming here and venting. I found that talking with people who understood was a big help. I tried my hardest to keep myself distracted, but I know how difficult that is. I did A LOT of crying - a LOT. Beyond that, I just tried to tell my husband that I still loved him and wanted our marriage to work. It was so hard not to beg and be a pathetic mess in front of him, but doing that just seemed to push him further away. So I was honest about how I was feeling, but I tried not to be a total mess in front of him. I didn't want him to come back to me out of guilt, you know? 

I've also been reading this book: I Love You but I'm Not In Love With You by Andrew Marshall Amazon.com: I Love You, but I'm Not IN Love with You: Seven Steps to Saving Your Relationship: Andrew G. Marshall: Books . It's been very helpful, too. 

I know how unbelievably hard this is. It is so, so painful. Remember to take care of YOU, too. Be honest with your wife, but also remember to give her some space right now so she can think. Regardless of what happens, know that YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS. It will just take some time. Hang in there!


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Bluemoon

What I am still doing is tearing us apart more and more.... Again just before she went to work... I asked what she wanted.... A divorce she said... I am falling deeper and deeper.

I know she needs her space.... It's that we both have no where to go....Money wise it's not there....
She does not love me.... Though I will wait for her to return, I know it will never happen.

If she had any feelings I think she would not want to push a divorce so fast. So going through a bankrupcy, a divorce and now i will have to go though a foreclosure..... Man it does come in 3's....

I'm hurting bigtime.... but my wife must be hurting more to have thought all this out already....Again in the past 4-5 months she never showed it in any way!!!!! I don't know how anyone can do that... I am not saying my Wife is a bad person by any means... She is the most unselfish person I have ever met. 

I don't know if I should be a little angry at her for not telling me her feelings while she was thinking this out... Or maybe she is seeing someone else... or again her hormones?????? Doctor said she would need 100 mg patch... she is on a 0.5 mg... 

If anyone here has a time machine I can borrow I'll pay you $100.00 a month for life!!!!! 

Thank Bluemoon... wishing you my best!!!!!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

You have briefly mentioned two things... Hormones for her, and your bad back.

Please explain more about the health of both of you. Why does she need hormones?


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mark for me I have had two back operations and need a 3rd, which I won't do.... I can get around and do things.... Just working wise I have not worked in almost 12 years.

My Wife had a vaginal hysterectomy on ... Dec 11th They took out both Ovaries....By taking out both Ovaries the Doctor said it would be easier to regulate the hormones... I remember him saying she would be on about a 100 mg patch which she changes every 3 days... Roght now and since her operation she has been on a 0.05 mg vivelle dot patch....

I told her this has to be too low.... Her response she does not want to be on any period... I aslo said she should call her doctor.. no dice!!!!!


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Ok I just looked through the following...

Vivelle Side Effects | Drugs.com

My Wife is on the 0.05mg patch....I found another site where it says the average person starts out on the highest one....

Reading through it my Wife has had a few of the problems listed whether it's related or not....

I called my Wife and she flipped....She said it has nothing to do with the hormones... i said think of the time line here.... And maybe it's not the problem but also maybe just maybe it's amplifing it???

I said ok you don't love me right she said yes... I said you felt I did not love you??? She said yes... I said can it be you thinking me not loving you, might have made you fall out of love with me?? She said yes... Ok maybe just maybe buy not having the proper hormones would play with her feelings??? She said no and why is it when women have moods it's due to hormones????

Ok I am lost with her saying that.... I am no doctor....but I do know that even a slight depression can cause your feelings to be way out of whack!!!!!!!!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I am surprised that the last time you had sex was so good for her if she lost her ovaries and she is not on a higher dose of hormones. For a lot of women, a hysterectomy is a disaster for the bedroom. However, it is just possible that she still gets pleasurable sensations during the friction of sex, but that her mood has lost all it's colour since the operation.

For a lot of women, it would be like watching a movie in colour and then having it switch to black and white. She may have associated her sexy hormonal feelings with love. Now that they have gone, she may think the love has gone. A lot of doctors fail to give proper counselling before a hysterectomy. This is exactly what one would expect.

For instance, I am a masseur... I get the best results if I work firmly. However, this causes the client to ache a bit the next day. If I remember to tell them in advance that: "you will ache a bit tomorrow, but it will be a nice ache!", there is seldom a problem. However when I first started, I did not think to warn them. Result: complaints!

Politicians call this "managing expectations".


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

For some of us women, married sex is not about love. It probably varies from person to person. I have never felt a particularly deep emotional connection with my husband during sex. It's almost the opposite of the dating stage, when the sexual relationship felt much more connecting. I cannot explain why; the intimacy came from other things and sex was just sex, after marriage. I also enjoyed recreational sex before marriage, so maybe that is why I can experience it two ways.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Mark and Sisters359

I understand what you are both talking about... My Wife said when i mentioned a look she kept giving me the past 3 times we had sex... i said it almost was like you said you loved me... She said no and sorry I got that impression....

But also note when i said after everything is done and over i will wait no matter how long and even if she never comes back.... I got the same look.....Mauybe it was just a look??? or maybe a feeling of knowing someone cares??? or maybe it's nothing but the look was the same!!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Roger136913 said:


> I understand what you are both talking about... My Wife said when i mentioned a look she kept giving me the past 3 times we had sex... i said it almost was like you said you loved me... She said no and sorry I got that impression....


If you want to win her back, it's probably best to not say stuff like that again. She does not like you reading her mind, and will do almost anything to put you off the scent.

Go by instinct, not her words.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mark

You are 100% correct that was wrong of me...

I did bring up the hormone issue again as i did more research.... Man was she pissed...

I told her the dosage she was on was not what the people who make say she should be on... I told her a Doctor can prescribe any dosage...

I also said it's possible and it's just a long shot that she could be depressed... Again she flipped... I said all you have to do is go see a Psychologist and she accused me of wanting to keep her around longer.... I told her I have two intentions here..

1) That she could be depressed and having the burden of thinking all this out for herself and maybe low hormones could change the way she feels.

2) I am worried that if and only if she was not getting treatment would not help her....

I left it also with the following 

1) Along with the bankrupcy she can file for divorce,,, also Since we can't afford the condo as she owe more then we could see it for she and she alone after talking with the lawyer will have to go to the bank and stop the automatic payment!!!! She said why does she have to stop it and not me???

I said this is what you want... not me... But I also said once we miss a payment there will be no catching up and in months they will start the forclosure!!!!!

I also said she can have all the our contents... I just want my computer she can have hers... I want my clothes,,,, some pictures of her and our son together.. and a few small odds and ends.. She said why so little???
I said this way she can file for no contest in the divorce.. so the papers will go though faster....

My final talk was if and ever she feels she loves me to call me or a family member and I will be there... If it takes a year, five years or 20 years... She said I won't wait that long... I said you have no idea what i feel about you and only I can answer that... But it comes with rules and rule 1 is the past stays as the past...I want the cummnication and I want her to see the love I will show her each day a little at a time for the rest of her life.. and I want her back for the rest of my life...
She said i won't wait.... I said only one way to find out... 

I'm done talking about this with her, and for the next 3-4 months we still have to be together.... Man this is going to be interesting to say the least.....I wonder if talking about the weather would be a good topic???

I appricate everyone's help here.... Some I wish I heeded by keeping my mouth shut....I wish I have a place to go so she could have some time for herself and there are many other great ideas here... Please don't think they are in vein by any means....

Thank You all..... I am not leaving this place by a long shot...But maybe it's time I start reading many others and maybe i can add 1 or 2 things that might help someone else...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Roger136913 said:


> My final talk was if and ever she feels she loves me to call me or a family member and I will be there... If it takes a year, five years or 20 years... She said I won't wait that long... I said you have no idea what i feel about you and only I can answer that...


Big mistake.

Never tell someone who is rejecting you that you will always be there for them. That gives them no sense of urgency at all. Have you ever seen advertisements on TV saying: "no need to rush to the shops, our product will always be waiting for you on the shelf" ?

In any case it's not the truth. You will not wait 20 years. You are bound to meet someone else over that long a period.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mark

I have never been through this... to be honest I want no one else.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

I started Therapy last Saturday... To be honest I will make the next visit, but will stop going.
I don't think it will be any good.

The Wife and I did talk a bit this weekend, she opened up a bit...

She now feels I love her, but is sad on what I am feeling as she can't say it back... 
She also told me she almost left at first and was never going to talk to me... Also she has people looking for an apartment for her at work but did not say it was her...

The Therapy and yep sex we had were wiped out all the great feelings I had....
Last night we went to bed together, she was ice cold... I mean cold as she was cold .... I cuddled with her as i am always warm,,,, I said if this alright???? She said yes, and I held her hand and she squezzed it tight....

I know she does not love me or maybe she can't say it... But my emoutions are all over the place....I feel like a rubber ball being bounced all over as I can't hang on to one feeling from the next... It seems like mixed signals, or maybe they are not signals at all>


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

If she is still in the same bed as you, you may as well try to initiate sex! If she goes for it, you may be able to get back on her wavelength by going in this direction without too much talking. She is clearly not wanting that at the moment.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mark

I just talked to my Brother, though he was going to come over and talk to me it would have been later and the Wife would have been here.

He said he felt there was something wrong with our marraige a year ago.... I asked him how?? he said it seemed cold???? I can honestly say I never felt that from my wife.... left alone the past 4-5 months my wife was thinking about all this....

My Brother is a Born again Christian, and he lost his wife due to her affair with another man.... I value all chats with my Brother as he is older and way smater then me.. But in his eyes there are no divorces period.... I am not a religous person though I believe in God... But my Brother feels my wife had an affair or is currently having one.... I have a feeling but to be honest no real proof. 

When my Brother told me that I can't describe the feeling I had.... I am pouring my heart out to my wife, why would she stay if she is having an affair and know it's over.... Why would she just not admitt it now after me asking several times? I told her it would be easier even if was having one....cause things would make more sense??

She said for 4-5 months I did not love her, now she feels I do.... I know I am looking at each word to try and make sense of it and I know thats wrong... My wife has lied, for reasons she said would be easier then arguing.... I know I am growing more insecure as i wonder if she is still lying when she says something...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Roger136913 said:


> Why would she just not admitt it now after me asking several times? I told her it would be easier even if was having one....cause things would make more sense??


Perhaps you are a meal ticket?


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mark

She makes more then I do...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I still feel you're in with a chance. Go with the sex.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mark

Your last comment I will admitt gave me a smile.... Not much has of late and i think you for that.

Ladies.....

I can't speak for every man in the world!!!! But I know we (some or alot more then you think) are capable of showing you how we feel. I for one did stupid things to drive my wife away I guess..
In 2 weeks if I could change it all I would in a heartbeat. If you love your husband and really feel he is sorry or not capable of having the feelings of loving you you are wrong... I know the change I want, it took this to open my eyes... If I had a chance I would not say what I would change I would do it... I miss the little things with my wife....I know now if I knew what my wife was feeling I would have not said it just proved it..

One last chance...Is all I want in life to show the Women I love how much she means to me.... One last chance.....


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Roger136913 said:


> Ladies.....
> 
> I can't speak for every man in the world!!!! But I know we (some or alot more then you think) are capable of showing you how we feel. I for one did stupid things to drive my wife away I guess..
> In 2 weeks if I could change it all I would in a heartbeat. If you love your husband and really feel he is sorry or not capable of having the feelings of loving you you are wrong... I know the change I want, it took this to open my eyes... If I had a chance I would not say what I would change I would do it... I miss the little things with my wife....I know now if I knew what my wife was feeling I would have not said it just proved it..
> ...


and let me please add this ladies...we are saying "one LAST chance." that is our way of saying "we know we F^*ked up! just take a breathe and watch us...we're gonna be the best husbands ever! we know the damage we've done, but we LOVE you. we never knew how to show you, but as we learn, you'll see, feel the difference. we're gonna be the men you thought we could be when you married us! we'll NEVER hurt you again with stupid jealousy, control, nothing!"

good luck roger...never give up. guys, we've been stupid. NEVER go down this road!


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Voivod

Well put.... I feel it's the way my wife put what she did not like, that I did not change.... She never stressed how bad it made her feel....
Telling me finaly opened my eyes a little too late? maybe?

Early this evening we talking.... she opened up more when I told her 3 times to look in my eyes and say you don't love me... 3 times she said no.. but the 4th time she said she did love me a little... The eyes did not lie on the 4th time...

She still wants a divorce..... and wants time apart... I will give her that with a feeling I might have a better chance.....though not a promise!!!!

I am not afraid to wear my heart on my sleeve anymore with her... If I ever have a chance, I can't.

Though the road is long, and I know it's going to hurt so much....

Voivod 

How are you doing??? I have not seen any updates on you???


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

The twists keep coming.....

Last night I played my on line game and the wife did also... I saw text on the screen that was weird... My wife was chatting but no one else was??? So I go into the other bedroom and ask my wife... She said she was chatting in game I said so cause I am in game... she said one of our friends asked if that was me in incognito... I said hmm can you show me?? said said wait a sec.. 2 mins go by and I then grabbed her mouse and saw the chat. 

The I love you's and ect, ect hurt....
She played it down.... and laughed... I told her this is way beyond chatting and not the stuff married people do.... I then called that friend and he was stunned.....

My Wife broke down,,,,,,,,, She loves him alot!!!!!! We met him a few years ago with his wife in Vegas. 
She said this has been going on for 2 weeks our friend said 2 days....
She would email him from work on a friends account. 
All this happened about 9:30 pm. 
She said this has nothing to do on how she feels towards... I beg to differ. After 2 weeks of pouring my heart out she honestly loves someone else, so how much of that 2 weeks did she set aside for me and how I feel????
I asked her on a scale how much she loves him?? she said about 7-8.... I asked her the love she has for me?? a big whopping 2.

I told her I can't compete with someone else in the picture...

Yea stupid me even said I forgive her ( and I do) but as I said I hate wearing my heart on my sleeve, and sure enough not even a few days later I feel like a doormat.

I know she is hurting bigtime, I know why she did this, or feel why. I feel it was alot of my fault also....

I thought I reached the bottom of the hole, but I keep falling futher and further...She has the rope to save me but it's like that rope won't reach me soon...


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## nightshade (Mar 4, 2009)

Roger-

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. It must be so difficult. I too teared up reading your story. 

I can empathized a bit, not that my husband has told me he doesn't love me, but he does act indifferent to me and wants to call things off when I express concern. 

What a rollercoaster you've been on. Now that you've found out there is someone else, it does make more sense why she's been acting the way she has. Sleeping with you, but keeping you at arm's length. 

To me, it seems she can't commit to a decision. Like she's thinking: "Well, I really love this other guy, but it will require a lot of work, and it could not work out. Yet, I have some feelings for my husband, and it would be easier. I don't know" 


I hope she reaches out. I'm sorry.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Nightshade

Thank you for the sediments...

I have been putting my pain aside and trying to ease hers... I feel I owe her that... She is in so much pain, though I am also I learned she comes first and should always why she is still with me.

Yea I know what you mean on showing the concern and how it pushes them away more... It's hard cause the heart takes over the brain...
I know feel that love makes us do things for the right and wrong reasons... 

This is has been my outlet for my pain.... I wish I could set that aside and try and help others as many have offered help to me... It's hard as I am great on advice, but here I am lost cause I can't help mine how could I help someone else????

I feel my wife is living a fantasy right now with the other guy.. though she claims she talked only once.... she has been emailing for 2 weks he claims 2-3 days??? Could my wife be hurting that much were she believes there is more there then what is?? Sure....

I still feel she pushed what she had for me aside and how I have been feeling for him... I can't see anyone loving to that extent in 2 weeks let alone 2 days and not seeing that person....Calls or Email can't give that bond.. I know I have been there in 1997... In the end I went back to reality and found it the women i married that I loved!!!!! and since then and before I never stopped loving her... I just got lost along the way and fogot what I felt for her... Someone else was in the picture and made it look different... But in fact it hid the feelings I always had and they were for my wife only...

As for your husband... Maybe he is afraid to show his heart??? and what he feels.. In many ways men are like women.. we want the affection and love and attention.. we want to be help and touched and kissed.. but it's when we want it...??????? I have no idea at this point... but I know its what I want and I can't be the only guy in the world thinking this?? It's just i reached a point I can't hide anything I need to show it.. She found my breaking point, but it might be too late


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I've read your posts. Whew!

You and your wife are hurting. She is acting out with this guy online. There is not a REAL relationship, if it's just texting and e-mailing. 

Get help for yourself...or continue if you are still seeing someone. If you don't feel like your previous counselor is working, get another one. Sometimes you have to change! However, you need support.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Roger, pls think about YOU. You cannot make your wife love you or return to you, but you can find a way to feel really good about yourself WITH or WITHOUT her. I have to tell you, my husband's "love for me" is really his dependency on me for his happiness, and I hate it. It's a terrible burden and everytime he says he loves me or does something he thinks I'll like, it feels manipulative. This reactoin comes after years and years of him ignoring me, for the most part, so it feels like desperation on his part. He didn't mind being alone and ignoring me, as long as he thought I was "his." He liked having his "arm candy." But I have grown tired of that.

If you have anything like this in your past with your wife, then be very careful. All that you are doing to show your love and support may be making things worse.


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## Roger136913 (Apr 29, 2009)

Corpuswife and Sisters.....

Tuesday was a day where I said the hell with it... I told her what i wanted and asked for 2 months to show her... and if after 2 months she felt nothing then she has nothing to lose... She said no i told her give me a week or a month..... I told her the online was nothing more then what it was... I know how Bob felt about his wife... She could not seem to grasp that.... So I made the call to Bob's wife.....

She told me she saw the Emails and thought my wife needed help, even his grown daughter saw one and said it was wrong hof my wife to say what she said in the email...

His wife said she trusts her husband 100%...

I got off the phone and my wife seemed in denial.....Now I admitt i never seen any of the emails.... Though i asked her please not to respond she sent him another email... though would not say what she asked him...

I honestly can't say how long this has been going on.... He says a few days my wife says 2 weeks????? The 2 weeks fit my time frame from her saying she wants a divorce.... Did he lead her on knowing what he was doing??? Did she take it all the wrong way???

Tuesday she broke down and was hysterical and would not stop crying... I had to call her girlfriend over and she gave her a Zanax (sp) and told my wife we have problems and need to sit and talk and try to work things out...

After her girlfriend left, my wife asked me for a hug............I said anytime and held her tight... I thought I was going to break her... We talked a bit but not about our marriage.. more so on how she has so much pain and she is hurting ect, ect...

Yesterday I called her in sick, she needed a day off. I was up at 5:11 am and she got out of bed at 10:15am....I made her some coffee and asked how she was feeling...
I told her I can leave and give her some alone time even if it was for a few hours...she never answered.. So i told her I would go into the spare room .. and did... I sat here and just doing nothing.... Then I said the heck with it I went into the bedroom put on my mp3 and layed in bed.... She got a call from her girlfriend... they talked a bit and she took a long shower... at 12:15 she came in the bedroom to get dressed.... and layed on the bed.... She said she wants to stay and not leave cause this is where she wants to be... and said she needs time...I think I took it the wrong way.. as it's like I could not think of what she just said... And she said the same thing...

I asked her a few times later yesterday if staying is what she wants as she looked unhappy... She said yes...I told her that I felt she was doing this to make me happy, she said no it's for her....

Insecure of me??? no doubt.... but while watching tv she asked me to cuddle which I jumped at..... She was tired so she went to bed at 8:45pm... i went with her and rubbed her back for about 20 mins and told her I let her sleep she said no don't so I rubbbed her back till 9:30pm.....those 45 mins felt like 1 minute....

I don't know if what i feel now is normal??? I feel like this is all a joke on me... I feel insecure, like she is not being honest and she is staying for me??? I have no idea what her girlfriend is saying or said on the phone...

I do know She is letting me take her out for Mothers day... but yesterday she asked if we could go to the beach for a walk.....
Is the feeling I have normal??? 
I know at work she can email Bob.... I can't stop that.. She also said before yesterday that if there were a chance we got back together I would throw this at her later.. I said no unlike the affairs this time we talked about it and I forgive you and understand why this might of happened...

Sisters no I don't have anything like that with my wife... or at least that i know of...


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