# Wife never makes the first move



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Okay, I've been married for 19 years and out of those 19 years, my wife only made the first move ONCE. She never and I mean NEVER makes the first move.
I mean, don't get me wrong, if I make the first move sex is gonna happen 9 out of 10 times, so I don't worry about getting rejected. It's just she never makes a move...

A couple of years back I did an experiment. I told myself that I wasn't going to make a move and I was going to wait until she wanted it............I waited for 2 months until I couldn't take it anymore and I made the first move.

Now, I have talked to her about this. And she says that she doesn't feel right making the first move. She's not comfortable with it. I guess she likes to be dominated. I told her I understood, but she has to realise that a man wants to feel desired and wanted too. A guy wants his bones jumped once in a while. She always tells me that she'll start making an effort......guess what?

I still have to make the first move....grrrr.....

Any idea's folks?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Be thankful your wife still beds ya  

Who cares who makes the first move? She obviously is turned on when you do it...


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## randomtxguy (Sep 24, 2011)

Hi Crossbar,

I understand that's frustrating. I'm on the other side, I only really get to have relations when the wife initiates (I keep fighting the good fight though). 

Have you tried roll playing or anything like that? In that case, you could initiate the act, then let her play the lead the rest of the way.

By the way, congrats on your 90% success rate. I'm batting about .111


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## Voyager (May 23, 2011)

Does your wife realize that this really isn't about sex? It's about your perception of how she feels about you. 

If you are like me, physical touch and sex are ways of expressing _and receiving_ affection, worth and love. Words are nice, but physical actions are much more effective in communicating the message.

It's almost like giving someone gifts over the course of a friendship, and they're very polite and appreciative yet never give you one in return. Eventually you begin to wonder if they feel the same way you do.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Voyager said:


> Does your wife realize that this really isn't about sex? It's about your perception of how she feels about you.
> 
> If you are like me, physical touch and sex are ways of expressing _and receiving_ affection, worth and love. Words are nice, but physical actions are much more effective in communicating the message.
> 
> It's almost like giving someone gifts over the course of a friendship, and they're very polite and appreciative yet never give you one in return. Eventually you begin to wonder if they feel the same way you do.


:iagree:

This is likely one big reason she doesn't initiate. She may not associate initiating with an expression of affection, appreciation, desire for you. She doesn't understand that kind of need yet. The gift analogy is spot on - you might be able to use that analogy sometime when you try to explain your feelings about this to her - and it would be more likely to have impact on her if you explained those feelings rather than just saying -" I want you to initiate." 

But there could be other reasons she has problems too - women are naturally more responders/receivers that initiators. They are more 'wired' to be that way physically (the act of sexual intercourse is one where a woman *receives* another into her body), and they are also more socialized to be that way. It can be a long hill to climb to get over those obstacles for many women. So, like she needs to understand your feelings on why this is important, you need to start to understand what her feelings may be on this as well.

What to do? Keep initiating - be enthusiastic when she does make subtle moves - try and gently put a bug in her ear about why initiating is more than just about sex, and hope that in time she will be comfortable and trusting enough to open up that way, and that she will see it as a beautiful gift that she can give to you.

Watch her moves carefully, as well - she could be making subtle hints to you that you may be missing. For many women it is uncomfortable for them to be overt in initiating. She may actually be doing what she thinks is initiating and you may be missing it. So pay attention to her. 

Don't pressure her. Try and understand the mountain she may have to climb to get to this point of initiating, and just give her an easy, trusting environment that will be conducive to that. After all - the greatest gifts are those that are given freely.

Best wishes.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

At least your wife responds to your move. Trust me. You are blessed. Things could be (and may someday become) worse. As long as you're being well fed, do you really care who rings the dinner bell?


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Thanks folks...Yeah, I understand what you guys are saying and I'm happy that I'm certain that I can "get some"... But, there's also a part of me that wants to know that I'm sexually desired by my wife. I mean, sometimes it feels like she's just going through the motions just to satisify me. " Oh, he needs some? Okay, let's get this over with." I'm probably way off the mark, but when you start to feel undesired by your wife, you start thinking like this.


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## Wantsmore (Sep 13, 2011)

I am in the same boat. Been married 14 years and been with her 20. When we were younger she would pull it out and go for it.

Time goes by and she hasn't initiated in years. Like 13. I don't know what happened. We have talked about it and she doesn't have an answer either. I always get "I will try harder" and it never happens.

I tried explaining to her it is more to it then sex. I want that feeling she desires to be with me and she thinks about it like I do her. Funny thing is we just had a talk about this 2 or 3 weeks ago and already things are almost back to the way they always are. I tell her I am wanting her early in the day to get her thoughts going. A few intimate touches during the day and so on. We get into bed, I am ready to go and she curls up and falls asleep before we even have a chance to get going.

I am at a loss as well.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

they are just selfish and refuse to go outside of their comfort zone for the happiness of their husbands.


if you lovingly comunicated that you would like her to initiate more and it fell on deaf ears. Then she is selfish or imature how often do you go outside your comfort zone for her?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> At least your wife responds to your move. Trust me. You are blessed. Things could be (and may someday become) worse. As long as you're being well fed, do you really care who rings the dinner bell?


It starts to feel like your begging to be fed after awhile/


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I don't think that it's right to make a blanket assumption about what is going on with a woman who doesn't initiate. There's a whole *interaction* going on between the husband and wife here. You know - two people involved. 

So, crossbar - think of it like this. See if you can wrap your head around this - because if you can you may start to gain a better understanding of where your wife may be at and look at it from a different perspective for a bit.

For a man, sex can encompass a spectrum of needs - the lowest level is a primal physical need - the need to 'get off' or for relief.

There's another level above that where it then becomes a more emotional need - it's not just to 'get off' but a way to please your partner and feel confident and desired as a man.

There's another level above that where it becomes a relational need - intimacy, trust, and bonding happen with your partner.

There's yet another level where it can become more than any of those things altogether at a spiritual level.

So. Where on this spectrum do you think your wife lies in her understanding of what sex means to you?

Yah - she seems to be on the first level - she understands your PHYSICAL need for sex, but does not yet understand how that relates to your other needs - the emotional/relational/spiritual needs. 

In one way, you ARE lucky. There are many men on the forum whose wives stepped onto that first level and have stepped back off. Your wife has stepped on and has stayed on.

She is RIPE for you to create the kind of caring, trusting, loving environment needed for her to be able to move to the next level, but she will need HELP from YOU. She will NOT be able to do it all on her own. Believe me, a wife needs help and guidance and reassurance from her husband to get to that next level. It does not just always 'come naturally'.

Are you up for the task?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Brian. said:


> It's easy for women to say that when you never actually have to initiate.
> 
> For comparison, what if you *always* had to initiate every hug and kiss(or whatever)? And that your husband *never* gave you a hug and kissed you first?


We initiate equally.

I can see what you're saying.

However, some women are really raised to think that men are the conquerers and women are the submissives.

It's hard to clean a brainwashed mind.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Brian. said:


> If a wife is only starting to initiate because you asked her to start initiating, it kinda looses it's purpose anyway because she is not initiating because she wants sex but because you asked her for it.
> 
> So it's not really "real".


Then wtf is supposed to happen? :scratchhead:

If there is a problem in a marriage and it gets addressed, the other person will hopefully START doing what their spouse feels then need to be done.

"real" or not, doesn't matter...to me, it's the effort that counts.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

crossbar said:


> Thanks folks...Yeah, I understand what you guys are saying and I'm happy that I'm certain that I can "get some"... But, there's also a part of me that wants to know that I'm sexually desired by my wife. I mean, sometimes it feels like she's just going through the motions just to satisify me. " Oh, he needs some? Okay, let's get this over with." I'm probably way off the mark, but when you start to feel undesired by your wife, you start thinking like this.


When I felt this way about my husband, it was because he was pulling away from me and i felt the distance.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> I don't think that it's right to make a blanket assumption about what is going on with a woman who doesn't initiate. There's a whole *interaction* going on between the husband and wife here. You know - two people involved.
> 
> So, crossbar - think of it like this. See if you can wrap your head around this - because if you can you may start to gain a better understanding of where your wife may be at and look at it from a different perspective for a bit.
> 
> ...


At this point, I'm up for anything. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love my wife and I know that she loves me (I just wish she'd show me instead of tell me.) You don't get to 19 years and NOT feel something for your partner. We talk lovingly to each other. I'll send her flowers for no other reason, other than because it's wednesday.....

So, hit me! What do I need to do?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Without going into voyeuristic details, is your wife a bed only, bedtime only, lights out missionary, let's get this done quickly sex partner? If yes then it's not about her initiating. It's about her not liking sex, or at least not liking sex with you.

In the first 13 years of our marriage the wife never started anything. Never, not a single physical act or touch or indication of any type. Ever. But since when I did 100% of the work 100% of the time and was still brushed off virtually every single time I decided I already had a full time job working for a boss who didn't like me a lot. Didn't need another one. So I stopped. And that seems to have suited her fine. 

Your mileage may vary. My only point is that there's a reason people express zero interest in something. It's because they have zero interest.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Well, you're right about bedtime and in bedroom. But, she's interested in different positions and is open to trying new things...except BJ's but that an entirely different thread. Once in a while, if I wake up early enough, I can get some morning nookie. But, again...I have to start everything.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Female sexuality is responsive to male sexuality. It's nothing personal.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

crossbar said:


> So, hit me! What do I need to do?


Just keep initiating. No, seriously - just keep initiating. Take ownership of it. Be proud of it - REVEL in it.

You can discuss how you want that more emotional connection, but your wife will have to get to that point of understanding on her own in order for her to be able to do it. If she feels safe to explore, she may do that at some point. Remember - you can't change another - you can only change yourself.

And if she does not get there - LET IT GO. Really. Her love for you is not really dependant on whether she initiates or not. She may be initiating her love to you in a hundred different ways that you aren't even seeing - this thing is only one.

And if it's something that really hangs you up, then it's actually more YOUR problem - a neediness you have. Does that neediness come out from you - as dissatisfaction or dissolution? That won't make the prospect any more appealing to her. So, if she never gets to the point, then what? Just pick yourself up, keep initiating, and keep going.

Concentrate on the good things that you DO have, don't dwell on those you don't.

"_If we are incapable of finding peace in ourselves, it is pointless to search elsewhere_." ~ Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Best wishes.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I don't think that wanting your partner to initiate, shows neediness. One could even say that a woman who needs extensive coaxing is needy as well. 

Enchantment, if his wife posted that she wanted more romance, would you also tell her that she should "let go" of her desires?

Sometimes I think that some of female members of TAM, have unspoken double standards. Women are allowed to want/need more emotional stroking, but men are not allowed to receive validation from sex.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Atholk said:


> Female sexuality is responsive to male sexuality. It's nothing personal.


 What the hell is that supposed to mean!


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## goodgirl1123 (Sep 28, 2011)

In my case my husband never had to feel that vulnerable " he was not sure'

I often make the first move about half the time... This is normal I feel.. sorry your wife does not. Try complements and kissing in a new place on the body like the neck verses the face.. Make her dinner??? good luck.

but what you have described does not seem normal....


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

crossbar said:


> What the hell is that supposed to mean!


It means that the more sexually attractive a man makes himself, the more sexually responsive the woman becomes, i.e. if she isn't doing it, it's down to you...

This is an essential premise of Athol's work. Go to his blog or buy his book and you'll see. 

I seem to recall he says this works in most but not all cases - if there's something pathological (mental or physical) going on, it won't, but he as near as "guarantees" in for "normal" couples.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> I don't think that wanting your partner to initiate, shows neediness. One could even say that a woman who needs extensive coaxing is needy as well.
> 
> Enchantment, if his wife posted that she wanted more romance, would you also tell her that she should "let go" of her desires?
> 
> Sometimes I think that some of female members of TAM, have unspoken double standards. Women are allowed to want/need more emotional stroking, but men are not allowed to receive validation from sex.


I'm only trying to get crossbar to mull things over in his head - trying to present different options for him to think about. People tend to come here with issues about their partner but can often be blind as to certain aspects they may play in it. 

I am more than willing to say to women that they may also be too needy - said that to one female poster just yesterday - to consider whether her desire for what she wanted (it was for him to make her feel beautiful - to constantly validate that) from her husband was reasonable. So hopefully, not a double standard, but a case by case basis based upon what the poster has stated. My goal is to spur people to introspection.

Here's the deal - it doesn't matter what the "thing" is - it could be initiating, it could be emotional stroking, it could be CIM - doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if they're male or female. IF that "thing" that a person is using is to somehow gauge their own self-worth (they are 'other' validated rather than 'self' validated), then they will never get enough from their partner to be happy and the problem does lie in them. Another person cannot make you happy. YOU make you happy - you choose how you react to what another does or doesn't do. You do not have to choose to be down in the dumps and believe 'they don't love me enough!' just because your partner does not do something the way that you like.

And, ultimately, you cannot force or compel your partner to do something they are adverse to doing. To do so just makes them even more adverse. The key is to be persuasive with your partner, not coercive.

And I actually agree with Athol's premise in the case where you have a more submissive wife. A man being more dominant (not domineering) is what spurs her sexual attraction (that is the way I am with my H). And sometimes, when a submissive wife becomes comfortable and starts to understand her husband's need, she can start to initiate (I have found this to be true for me.)


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> It means that the more sexually attractive a man makes himself, the more sexually responsive the woman becomes, i.e. if she isn't doing it, it's down to you...
> 
> This is an essential premise of Athol's work. Go to his blog or buy his book and you'll see.
> 
> I seem to recall he says this works in most but not all cases - if there's something pathological (mental or physical) going on, it won't, but he as near as "guarantees" in for "normal" couples.


You guy's are making it out to sound like I'm a fat ugly slob that showers once a week. I'm an educated man with a nice career. A good job to provide for my family. I'm clean-cut and wear a suit everyday for work...... I don't get it. The wife bragged to me a couple of times when I went to her work to pick her up to have lunch together. She stated that the girls at her work were telling her that I was hot....so, I don't get it.


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## 321 (Sep 5, 2011)

I think you need to speak with your wife and instead of asking if she'll initiate, ask her to honestly say why she doesn't. it could be any number of reasons from fear of rejection, habit, perception etc. I have the opposite - my husband has got to the stage where he doesnt initiate anymore and we're thinking it's linked to his depression - nothing I or anyone else has done. It does affect a woman a lot on the sex front how the relationship is in general though - the more comfortable you are the more willing you are to try new things. It could be she feels inadequate if other women appear to be after you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

Help here thru it with an offer 

I want to make a bargain with you some how so we can at least pretend you are drawn to me. Here is my proposal and I am totally serious. At 7 pm this evening if you will reach over and kiss me and then ... If you can do that for me I will paint the kitchen with a smile and buy you your favorite candy bar. 

Make a game out of it. When she sees the results maybe she will start to get the picture


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

crossbar said:


> You guy's are making it out to sound like I'm a fat ugly slob that showers once a week. I'm an educated man with a nice career. A good job to provide for my family. I'm clean-cut and wear a suit everyday for work...... I don't get it. The wife bragged to me a couple of times when I went to her work to pick her up to have lunch together. She stated that the girls at her work were telling her that I was hot....so, I don't get it.


No, what I'm trying to do is explain what Athol K said above and distill a few hundred blog posts down into four or five lines.

The premise of Athol's position is that by being uber-sexy and dominant, your wife's subconcious desire to have sex will be triggered by you, and you alone. Go to marriedmansexlife.com and start reading - there's a lot to go through, but you'll soon get the gist of what he means and see if it's for you.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Brian. said:


> But then it is just "pretending". She won't be initiating sex because she wants it. It's not genuine.


So then he should just leave his wife, I guess. Because anything at this point would be "fake". Right?

lollll Please.


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## Brian. (Aug 5, 2011)

that_girl said:


> *So then he should just leave his wife, I guess*. Because anything at this point would be "fake". Right?
> 
> lollll Please.


Unless he can accept that she doesn't initiate then yes.

And yes it will be "fake". 

If you need to ask your wife to start initiating then she is only initiating because you asked her too.

How would that satisfy a mans need to feel wanted sexually if he has to ask her for it? 

It would be ALOT better and more satisfying if you didn't need to ask her to start initiating because then it's genuine desire from her side, if you need to ask her to start doing it she is just going through the motions and doing it because you want her too.

It would just feel cheesy, I'd just sit there thinking it's not real and it's not genuine desire... 

If you need to ask a woman to start initating it loses it's whole purpose.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Brian. said:


> How would that satisfy a mans need to feel wanted sexually if he has to ask her for it?


I think you have a false premise here. It is completely possible for a woman to want her man and yet not initiate. Her culture and/or how she was raised can easily cause a woman to think that "good girls" don't do that, even when married. She may very well need encouragement to show that to her man.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

I think there are some slightly skewed views here. That a woman doesn't 'get' that a man wants sex for validation of love is no great surprise for me. The overwhelming barrage of statistics, media blurb, blog posts, forum spiel, etc., not to mention just conversational chitchat, confirms that the primary message about men & sex is that they want it for it. Not for being with their woman. I've got somewhat past that, and at my age would have thought that recognising the validation thing would make me capable of initiating more than once in a blue moon. Not a bit of it. Reasonably educated, lowish self esteem about weight but no doubt of my sexual attractiveness to my partner, the only fundamental things in the way of us having a mega sex life (as we did in our early days) are a clashing of intellects over trivia and how to deal with it, and the fact I find it hard to overcome that and initiate. (or indeed if there's been no friction, simply to initiate). Or indeed be a willing participant anything less than a couple of days after any kind of friction. Oh dear. 

Using words and actions to basically say '7uck me' does not come easy to me. 
Firstyeardown's observation: _Sometimes I think that some of female members of TAM, have unspoken double standards. Women are allowed to want/need more emotional stroking, but men are not allowed to receive validation from sex_ is fair on the one hand because I question what percentage of women acknowledge or even realise that men need that validation. doesn't make the woman's need for more emotional stroking any less important.......... and in the case of hoping for more initiation, maybe you could say that a bit of bias might pay dividends?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Just keep resisting and saying no. Chalk it up to society at large. I am sure that will work out fine.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

What starts out as "fake" can quickly become genuine.

lol...I feel bad for people who are so black and white about things.


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## gmabcd (Sep 9, 2011)

that_girl said:


> What starts out as "fake" can quickly become genuine.
> 
> lol...I feel bad for people who are so black and white about things.


next rto my husband right now and just went for dinner anD wish he made a move. Recently told him wantes it more but just keep being ignored. Sooo sad. And damn I am cute so I think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think you have a false premise here. It is completely possible for a woman to want her man and yet not initiate. Her culture and/or how she was raised can easily cause a woman to think that "good girls" don't do that, even when married. She may very well need encouragement to show that to her man.


I agree with this. What is /was her religious upbringing? How does she feel about Porn, lingerie , flirting, teasing . Is sex under the covers with the lights out ? What is her sexual IQ? 

If you was to bring any of this up, how would she respond?

I personally used to be one of those "goody goody" girls who felt all men should pursue, very shy in bed, embarrassed, near everything but intercoarse I looked upon a little "dirty' somehow- even in marraige. I would , however, come on to my husband by touch if he let me go so many days (I've always had a GOOD sex drive) ...but we NEVER talked about sex, we were never creative, I hid my body like Eve with the leaf before him, I was a little prudish, it was a "*mindset*".... I needed to be awakened... 

Could this possibly be the case with your wife???

Although I can not for the life of me understand your wife being able to go 2 full months without going crazy for being laid (She had to be secretly masterbating or she has no sex drive!) Maybe too embarrassed to ever admit that to you?


Once I started reading secular books on sex, I realized OH MY GOD, we hadn't did nothing in the last 19 years, how boring we were! Some cage was unlocked within me and boy do I ever like to take him down now. But darn, I could have been that way years ago! It was there, but not "unleashed" somehow. 

She is NOT refusing you, you could live with this, many would be happy. But really, it would be an awful shame IF she has it *INGRAINED *in her psyche that "good women" do not do that, if this is all that is truly holding her back. What are her female relatives like, any of them wilder? How was she raised? 

I don't think many women "get" what it DOES for a man to come on to him , to show "*I need **you too*" -even if it is just for the *emotional connection*. I even did that when I was prudish, so I have a hard time fathoming this , how much does that take? Dare yourself, grope him with a grin today  Geeeze. How it would brighten his world. 

Women take so much for granted.......maybe she has never thought about what it would FEEL like to not be desired, how this would internally peirce her somehow. That 2 months -do you think she was hurting at all -was there any signs - did she pull away from you, seem sadder -if you can remember? Why can't we see -we do this to our men. Most especially our sensitive men. 

I also feel our spouses DO contribute to our happiness- this will always be, we can't separate this, unless we become numb.

I can speak for my husband. When I was more Aloof, too into books & kids --though I rarely rejected him ...but still it took a toll, for HIM (I am married to a very sensitive loving man), he literally NEEDED me to show a sign, some willingness, some clue, some coming towards him -for him to "take me", that was just HIS way. Sometimes he even waited a week for me, cause he KNEW I would be coming on to him, that revived him -simply meant the world to him, so he waited it out -and by then he was dying for it. That validation that "my wife WANTS ME" -for him, was worth the wait. 


I was NOT clued *into this NEED *of him wanting me to come on to him, he NEVER SPOKE of it ONCE in 19 yrs, we never talked about sex, what we wanted. Without ME showing this sometimes -it played on his mind, his heart. .... he is the pure GIVER type, the sensual lover, never used me for sex once, it was NEVER about "just getting off", it was only "making love" to him. If you are like my husband... I purely understand your desire here.

Also I wonder --is this a mid life crises of sorts, as for 19 yrs, you have came this far, or you have struggled and been feeling this for many many many years, now it is taking a larger toll on you? 

My husband coming on to me -showing his need can brighten my whole world and vice versa. I find these things monumentally important in each spouse. I would not downplay that. You can try but I think we all know what makes us happy deep within..... this is not a huge request by any means. 

When that cage inside of me was unlocked, my mind no longer hindered & divided on what is OK, what is RIGHT within my own marriage (Good Girl be gone!), I found WINGS to just BE, to please, to tease, realizing the depth , height, and width of what we had been missing -while he was off feeling LESS LOVED by me, that was the end of that sh**. There was no other path to take - What a freeing it was. Not longer was I worried I may look like a stripper, now I could be HIS personal Stripper and feel completly unashamed. 

*It is all a mindset*. 

Just saying, if it is a *hormonal *issue (this hinders our sexual thoughts greatly), IF it is *attraction *issue, work on that, IF it is a *resentment *issue, you need to step it up somewhere to be meeting her needs more so. 

*My comments are solely on ...if a GOOD GIRL mindset is at play. *Not easy to overcome, she would need to recognize it could be SO MUCH MORE, 
a willingness to want to go there, to learn & grow together. Not shut you out...... she might find a little effort on her part gives her many many rewards.


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

I've been with my wife 23 years. In all she initiated MAYBE 5 times. I know she enjoys sex. Most times, she's into to the point of physical exhaustion. We both work full time, and she is doing an online college. I do ALL the housework and child care. She RARELY turns me down. But still, I'd like to see her take some control. This was my analogy. Marriage is like a tennis match, each ball represents a part of a marriage. Work, Child, her, myself, her & I, and many more combinations. We each take turns 'serving' the ball, relying on the other to hit it back . I told her, I need her to serve the 'intimate' ball to me as well. So at first (and yes its contrived for now) she would serve that ball once a week, and I'll serve it once a week. on a specific day. After a few weeks, it would be any day of the week. After that, we'll let it be at will. The goal is for her to learn that she can be a sexual person, and that she has the ability and right to feel that way.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree with this. What is /was her religious upbringing? How does she feel about Porn, lingerie , flirting, teasing . Is sex under the covers with the lights out ? What is her sexual IQ?
> 
> If you was to bring any of this up, how would she respond?
> 
> ...


SA, before your "awakening", what were the chances of you ever pitching up in a place like this and reading / hearing something like the above? And if you had, would you more likely have thought "Wow, maybe I should!" or "OMG, how utterly disgusting, I could NEVER do that!"?


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## YupItsMe (Sep 29, 2011)

Brian. said:


> But then it is just "pretending". She won't be initiating sex because she wants it. It's not genuine.


Its hard to respect your opinion when you skipped half the concept. 

I was once an introvert and then I went into sales. I was forced to initiate conversation. I liked the results. Now I am outgoing and live a fuller life because I learned what would happen when I went about things differently. 

If she plays the game I suggested and likes the results her perspective can change like mine did. 

Open your mind.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

YupItsMe said:


> Help here thru it with an offer
> 
> I want to make a bargain with you some how so we can at least pretend you are drawn to me. Here is my proposal and I am totally serious. At 7 pm this evening if you will reach over and kiss me and then ... If you can do that for me I will paint the kitchen with a smile and buy you your favorite candy bar.
> 
> Make a game out of it. When she sees the results maybe she will start to get the picture


Careful. One obvious possibility here is that the light goes off in her head that by doling out piddling little bits of sexual favour and apparent enthusiasm, she can get you to bust your hump doing whatever hours of work she wants - that she can buy you with very small amounts of sex. I know it isn't what you mean, but beware the Law of Unintended Consequences.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Selfish and immature?
She told you... it. makes. her. uncomfortable.
You still really really want her to do it anyways.

So... if having another man in the bedroom makes you uncomfortable, and she really really wants to do that... are you going to do it?? If not, you are selfish and immature.

Respect her boundaries. Or get a book and teach her a few simple moves. And be satisfied with that.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Crossbar, you don't just wait for her to make the first move, you have to entice her to make the first move. See if it helps, I play the teasing game any chance I get with the missus because I enjoy building up the lust and desire before ramming like rabbits!

Still, for your wife the first move could very well be: dressing up sexy, looking good, teasing, flirting etc. Not aggressively jumping you with legs wrapped around, biting into you and grinding you... not every woman is like that I guess.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I know I'm late to this, but crossbar, I was wondering if you and I are somehow "mind melded"!
I, too, have a W who never turns me down, but she never initiates, either. And when she doesn't, like you said, you start to wonder if she really finds you desirable or disgusting. I would read Dear Abby type columns, and some letters would start:

"Dear Abby, my husband, with no warning, told me last week that he doesn't want to have sex with me anymore..."

And I'm expecting the writer to go on saying "What have I done wrong? Why doesn't he find me attractive..."

But instead, they go on: "...and I wish he'd said that years ago!"

So, naturally, I get to thinking if that's the case with my W. Does she secretly find me disgusting? Is she only giving me some because she feels it's her duty? Does she only agree to sex just to shut me up? (That's a childhood issue of mine-we all had to go along with things we hated or else Daddy would get mad)
To give her her due, she comes from a culture where "ladies" simply DO NOT pursue sex. (And if she does, she is clearly not a "lady"). I've tried talking, begging her to initiate, threatened, suggested sex therapy, tried to get her in the mood, asked her to dress sexy, if only in the bedroom, and she will do these things, but ONLY when I suggest it. I want her to WANT to do it, and not just because I said so.

It's like the classic Cheap Trick song: "I Want You To Want Me."


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Spouses who treat you as a disposable commodity aren't thinking about you, what they like about you, don't like about you. Trust me, they're not thinking about you at all. You are an interchangeable part easily replaced, discarded or ignored. They're not having sex because, god's honest truth, the extent of their universe ends at their own skin. It does not dawn on them that there are other flesh and blood people in the world, much less human beings worthy of their concern or attention.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

The act of being dominant against your husband has consequences. I know all about that. If she senses, in even a tiny little way that you are not 100% man of the house, it's like hitting on your cousin. Seriously. Of course she loves you, and respects you, because she is having sex with you. It's not very "attractive" to demand that she be dominant to prove she loves you. It smells of insecurity. I wouldn't touch it either. Because what's next? You don't truly love me unless you now do this.. and this.... 

I am dominant by nature. I don't think twice about making a move. It crushes the ego of someone who has any insecurities. Be careful what you ask for. She's doing you a favor by not going there.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

deejov said:


> The act of being dominant against your husband has consequences. I know all about that. If she senses, in even a tiny little way that you are not 100% man of the house, it's like hitting on your cousin. Seriously. Of course she loves you, and respects you, because she is having sex with you. It's not very "attractive" to demand that she be dominant to prove she loves you. It smells of insecurity. I wouldn't touch it either. Because what's next? You don't truly love me unless you now do this.. and this....
> 
> I am dominant by nature. I don't think twice about making a move. It crushes the ego of someone who has any insecurities. Be careful what you ask for. She's doing you a favor by not going there.


Oh believe me, I'm not insecure and my wife and I have a very healthy sex life. But, is it too much to ask to change it up a little bit? I mean, what guy would want to be welcomed home with his wife wearing some lingerie? I'm not stupid! I can buy a clue of what she has in mind! I mean, in my opinion, most of the women here are kind of like, "shut up, don't rock the boat and just be happy you're getting some." 

I'm not asking for her to get into S&M. I'm not asking for her to introduce someone else in the bedroom. I'm not asking for any fetish to play out. And I'm not asking her to make the first move EVERY TIME. I just want some affirmation that she's still sexually attracted to me from time to time. What's wrong with that?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> *It is all a mindset*.


:iagree:

Sex is enjoyed by the both of you, so it doesn't sound like 'duty' sex (and I'll be honest, I'd barely even heard of such a thing before joining these forums) therefore based on what you have written, she does desire you.

Does she flirt with you, compliment you or use body language to let you know she thinks you're sexy? Is she giving you subtle cues that could be going unnoticed?

You feel frustration with initiating as you'd like to feel her desire towards you, to have reassurance that she really does think you're a hot studly Batman. I think most of us like to know we're desired by our spouses this way. It is about her mindset though. 

My suggestion would be to keep initiating and I assume you flirt with her? Keep leading by example in a variety of ways. Maybe this might help her open up more and do some of these things in return if she doesn't already. Does she know how to flirt? Maybe you need to switch things up in order to give her a chance to switch things up in return? 

If she's not shy about sex, how about creating a game between you? This is something my H and I did. Together we each wrote out 5 sexual and/or romantic things we'd like. Even talking about these ideas was great. Once we had our 10 scenarios written down, we shuffled them up and randomly selected scenarios between us. We then held a mix of our own ideas _and_ each others, which then became our responsibility to fulfill. They were anything from writing a love poem to sexual positions and role play. I have no problem initiating, this was something we did to switch things up and it was fun! but I'm wondering if something like this might help your wife feel more comfortable initiating events if it's done this way? Just an idea.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

crossbar said:


> The wife bragged to me a couple of times when I went to her work to pick her up to have lunch together. She stated that the girls at her work were telling her that I was hot....so, I don't get it.


Pay attention!! She's telling you she thinks you're desirable. She bragged to you about how hot you are to others. This to me would mean she feels proud of you and is attracted to you.. and you don't know what she said to those women in response. No doubt she agreed with them proudly or told them to back off.  So while you might yearn for physical signals that she desires you, please do not overlook what she IS actually doing.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^ Salt 'N' Pepa - Whatta Man 1994 (feat. En Vogue) - YouTube

:rofl:


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> ^ Salt 'N' Pepa - Whatta Man 1994 (feat. En Vogue) - YouTube
> 
> :rofl:


haha exactly! 
Salt N Pepa knew


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## Listen and Learn (Oct 30, 2011)

Another way of looking at this - to perhaps see the mans side of it....
Supposed you had a very good female friend, you initiate a phone call to her 2-3 times every week. Every time she answers the phone you both have a wonderful, animated conversation and you both seem enjoy talking to each other very much. 
Years go by, it suddenly dawns on you that your friend never, ever, initiates a phone call to you. (Yes, she can afford it)
You ask yourself, could it be I am bothering her too much? Or maybe she is just being polite to me and tolerates me? 
You say to yourself, gosh! that next phone call is going to be initiated by her! Six months go by without a single phone call.
What do you do? Do you just relish in the fact that if you want to have a stimulating phone conversation, you must be the one to initiate the call? Always? 
Quite frankly, it would bug me if it one of my male friends did that to me.


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## HelloooNurse (Apr 12, 2010)

I suggest you make a decision: 

1. You initiate (and have sex)
or 2. No sex.

So.. which is it?


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't make the first move anymore and haven't for over a year..... After years of my husband telling me no 9 times out of 10 i stopped.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

Not to belittle your feelings but I understand where your wife is coming from. She isn't trying to hurt your feelings or ego by not initiating. Just think of it as would I expect my wife to open the car door for me or pull out the chair for me to sit? Assuming that you didn't get married as a young teen, we are both of the generation of the man making the first move...asking the girl out for a date, moving in for the kiss... You should ask her if she ever asked a man out (obviously prior to meeting you of course!!lol) Again I don't think that her intention is at all to hurt you (speaking as w of 17 years, who loves to have sex with h but still feels uncomfortable initiating). Try to communicate your feelings and be patient. good luck!!


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## gmabcd (Sep 9, 2011)

2sick said:


> Not to belittle your feelings but I understand where your wife is coming from. She isn't trying to hurt your feelings or ego by not initiating. Just think of it as would I expect my wife to open the car door for me or pull out the chair for me to sit? Assuming that you didn't get married as a young teen, we are both of the generation of the man making the first move...asking the girl out for a date, moving in for the kiss... You should ask her if she ever asked a man out (obviously prior to meeting you of course!!lol) Again I don't think that her intention is at all to hurt you (speaking as w of 17 years, who loves to have sex with h but still feels uncomfortable initiating). Try to communicate your feelings and be patient. good luck!!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenDreams (Nov 6, 2011)

crossbar said:


> Oh believe me, I'm not insecure and my wife and I have a very healthy sex life. But, is it too much to ask to change it up a little bit? I mean, what guy would want to be welcomed home with his wife wearing some lingerie? I'm not stupid! I can buy a clue of what she has in mind! I mean, in my opinion, most of the women here are kind of like, "shut up, don't rock the boat and just be happy you're getting some."
> 
> I'm not asking for her to get into S&M. I'm not asking for her to introduce someone else in the bedroom. I'm not asking for any fetish to play out. And I'm not asking her to make the first move EVERY TIME. I just want some affirmation that she's still sexually attracted to me from time to time. What's wrong with that?


I'm a new member here and this happens to be this first thread I came across. I have the exact same situation only I am the female wanting my husband to initiate. After reading through all of these posts, I get the impression that my situation is uncommon (Being naturally wired for submission and all). This isn't to say that I'm dominant. I strongly desire submissive roles in all aspects of my life and marriage, sex included. 

While we were engaged, he did plenty of initiating. It was all his forwardness that led me to break my strong belief in sex only after marriage. I compromised that engagement was close enough. No exaggeration, the very night we were married was the same that he stopped initiating. 

How awkward to feel unwanted on the wedding night. However, I was confident enough to get things started on my own. For the next couple of years it was like that. I felt confident enough to initiate. Each time just thinking that it wouldn't always be that way. After two years, I started questioning him about never wanting me first. Often, he would avoid answering or tell me that he didn't know. Just like your wife, if I initiated something, he would never reject me. But, just like you, I sometimes get the feeling that he is accepting me only out of obligation.

Unlike you, I have not made it 19 years. In fact, I'm only on six years and have no more sexual relations with my husband because the confidence is gone (many other things besides sex have stressed our relationship and I just don't feel good enough for him anymore, though I think that he would still accept if I were to try again, even after so long).

I suppose, you being the male, that it is harder for you to resist your wired primitive urges (no offense intended, just commenting on the previous discussions) and I, as the female, can only fight my natural submissiveness for so long. 

In your case, you should feel lucky that you have your maleness on your side, or you would be where I am now with no sexual relations at all.

Every few months or so, conversation will lead to sex and I will tell him its a large part of why I feel so unhappy and uncomfortable around him. I tell him that I want to feel wanted but, nothing comes of it except, sometimes, an argument.

Sorry that I have no good advice for you. Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone and that things could certainly be worse.


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