# Ultimatum for H?



## d1nonle (Apr 2, 2010)

So I think it's time my H gets off the fence. He told me a few weeks ago he wasn't sure he wanted to be in our marriage. Since that time nothing has changed and we haven't talked about it. 

H hasn't participated or put any effort into our marriage for a long time. I'm tired. I'm tired of doing all the cooking, cleaning, bill paying, grocery shopping etc. I'm tired. I think it's time he make a decision and either start putting an effort into our marriage or leave. I want him 100% in or 100% out. I'm scared, but ready to have him stop sitting on the fence. 

I do want our marriage to work. I just don't want it this way.

How are ultimatums usually accepted by men and/or is there a better way I should go about this?


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Ultimatums are never the answer.

Sounds to me like he's already made his decision.

All you can do at this point is to stop enabling him to be a lazy do nothing all day couch potato.

Then see where the chips fall.


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## H30 (Nov 23, 2013)

I hate ultimatums, I don't think they are beneficial for anyone and you won't get what you want out of it. My husband too had told me that he wasn't sure he wanted to stay married. I like to think that he's lost himself for several reasons....and in the years since that devastating conversation I am constantly questioning myself, my relationship, everything. It is a horrible place to be. I think it's up to you to make the decision on what you want and go from there. Maybe it's more of if he isn't ultimately on board that you can't be in that relationship, maybe find out from him what he needs to get on board...it sounds like you are going through the motions of being a "wife"...but what about your relationship?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What you REALLY mean is you are going to tell him you're moving forward with separating, and that he is free to change what he is doing if he wants you to change your mind. And if he doesn't, well, you'll know you're better off without him.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Don't go for the ultimatum. I think you can do something similar that shows a degree of respect for him while allowing him to make the decision of what he wants to do based on the understanding of your position.

Just sit down with him and, plainly and directly, without dancing around the scary words like unhappy, divorce, etc., tell him your position. That you are unhappy, that you are not willing to continue in the marriage the way things are right now. That you feel like he isn't committed to the marriage. Then explain that you would like to see the marriage be saved, but that can only happen if he is willing and capable of committing himself to the marriage 100%, in which case you will continue to be as well. If he is not willing and capable of committing himself 100%, then it is time to divorce. Make sure you actually tell him that. Then be ready to explain what a 100% commitment would look like from him. What kind of expectations would you have for him to show that he is committed?

This makes it about him and his decision. Respecting his right to have a say in the matter. Not negotiating, not telling him what to do, not nagging. Just presenting the issues and the options that you are willing to accept, and letting him make his choice.


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## d1nonle (Apr 2, 2010)

Thanks so much for the guidance. I planned on speaking with him last weekend but that didn't work out. It's a good thing to because I was going to give him an ultimatum.....either step into the marriage or step out of the house and I see that probably wouldn't be the best way. 

I really like the way that you all worded it. It's not really an ultimatum it's my decision and he can either change it or go with it.

I also like cdbakers way. I may try that. 

It's so hard to be in this situation. This isn't the first time for me to be in this situation, but I hope it'll be my last. I wish there was a way to get through to him how damaging those words can be. Just saying those words without further discussion is cruel I think.

The more I think about what he said the more I think he may be using it as a control tactic? Last times he's said that I changed some of my ways and put more effort into the marriage while he kicked back and enjoyed it. This time I didn't change anything....nor will I until he puts in effort as well.

Hopefully I get a chance to speak to him about it this weekend. Any other input before then would be great.

Thanks again for the input and support.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's how my therapist described it, after my working 35 years to support my H in everything he wanted or needed, covering up for him when he messed up, never letting him suffer his own consequences. She said:

You have to stop propping him up. It's too heavy a weight for you, and no weight at all for him. Once you stop letting him lean on you, he'll have two choices: stand up on his own two feet, or fall flat on his face and THEN learn to stand up on his own two feet. Either way, you will be happier and healthier, and so will he.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I think it's hard for us to provide much more than general input since we don't have very many specifics regarding his contributions or lack thereof to the marriage. Like you mentioned "the more I think about what he said the more I think he may be using it as a control tactic?" but you haven't said here what it was that he said, or what some of the ways were that he said you changed or what kind of efforts you want from him that he isn't doing, etc.

Good luck of course!


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## d1nonle (Apr 2, 2010)

cdbaker said:


> I think it's hard for us to provide much more than general input since we don't have very many specifics regarding his contributions or lack thereof to the marriage. Like you mentioned "the more I think about what he said the more I think he may be using it as a control tactic?" but you haven't said here what it was that he said, or what some of the ways were that he said you changed or what kind of efforts you want from him that he isn't doing, etc.
> 
> Good luck of course!


My husband said he's not sure if he wants to be in the marriage. He doesn't participate in the marriage. He doesn't do things with us, doesn't participate in family get togethers, he doesn't cook, he doesn't clean, he doesn't show affection (other than a quick kiss on his way out the door). It may be easier to say what he does do ---- what he does do is watch tv, play video games and play on his phone (it's a tablet type phone), eat (usually the meals I cook), and leave things laying around the house for me to pick up, he gets our daughter off to school (she's usually ready and her lunch is done by me of course) as I leave for work early in the morning. He also works approx. 45 hours per week mostly evening shifts so doesn't get home till midnight.

My husband has said the same thing in the past (that he doesn't know if he wants to be in the marriage). Each time he has said he wasn't sure if he wanted to stay married I tried to fix the marriage and changed things I was doing. He didn't say I've changed. What I meant was I changed some of my behaviors as a result of him saying that. Hope that's a little clearer. 

This time I refused to change any of my behaviors or change at all actually. It's status quo for me. 

I am hesitant to put more into this marriage when it's not being reciprocated. It hasn't proved to be beneficial in the past so why continue? It's like banging my head against a brick wall - I just get more damaged and nothing changes.


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## temperance (Jul 28, 2013)

d1nonle said:


> It may be easier to say what he does do ---- what he does do is watch tv, play video games and play on his phone (it's a tablet type phone), eat (usually the meals I cook), and leave things laying around the house for me to pick up, he gets our daughter off to school (she's usually ready and her lunch is done by me of course) as I leave for work early in the morning.


If he doesn't care, why do you? 
I am in a similar situation. My ultimatum didn't work, well yes it finally did and he finally got himself a job (yes yours actually work 45 hours, mind worked 0 for decades). When you force him in a situation he is not comfortable with, what do you think his reaction will be? 

What is up with TV and Video game for men anyways?!? Maybe they should just get marry to their tv shows and video game without us. Better yet, find a wife who play video game with them who also doesn't give a sh$t and enjoy life that way for the rest of their life... maybe there are woman out there like that and rich enough without needing to earn them by working so they can hire maids to take care of their kids and everything else that needs to be taken care of. 

Sorry I know I am not helping, but at this point I am truly at my wits end and resent men for it... maybe not ALL men, but by stories from this forum, well frankly more than quite a few of them behave the same way and think there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Ultimatums usually back fire. He needs to see you can survive on your own. Without him your still a person who can make it in this world. It sounds like he's not worried at all. Actions speak louder than words.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Start putting your money aside, so you'll have a safety net if you need to break away.


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## d1nonle (Apr 2, 2010)

Thanks for the messages. 

Sorry to hear you're in a similar situation Temperance. I'm not sure what is up with our men. I have no clue why mine chooses to play video games. He's told me before it's his escape. But escape from what? He doesn't do anything at home!

I also know the stresses of H not working. Mine didn't work for a year almost 2 I think. That drove me nuts and I had serious resentments for him and a total lack of respect. It was a very difficult time in our marriage. I can't imagine having to work through decades of not working. How did you manage that? Do you have resentments and a lack of respect too?

My H already knows I can survive on my own. In 2010 when he was in an ea I did end up asking him to leave. I make the majority of the money in our household. In 2010 we separated bank accounts and never joined them back. 

That's part of my frustration. The only bills H pays adds up to approx 500 per month - peersonal cell phone bill, our personal credit line and the fuel for the vehicle he uses. He makes about 500-600 less a month than I do. I pay all the other bills, household bills including insurances (even for the car he uses), groceries, utilities etc. So what does he do with his extra money? He buys whatever he wants - clothes, video games, whatever. He could at least put 1/2 of the extra money into savings, but he doesn't. I don't even know what he does with it and sadly neither does he. 

Didn't get the opportunity to talk to H tonight. Hopefully tomorrow night. After that he's on night shift and I hardly see him through the week. Weekends are my only chance.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My theory: Men are raised by women and told to go out and play, have fun. As they get older, they get into sports or video games, and their mom STILL takes care of them. They grow up expecting to have fun. Why would they expect their marriage to be any different?

Women, on the other hand, grow up learning to pretend cook, clean, marry, and have babies. They're groomed to replace their mothers.

So why would a guy expect anything different than coming home and having fun while the woman takes care of him?

Bottom line, YOU have complete control over this. It's all about what you accept, what you do. Find something you can tell him to pay that won't matter to you if it gets paid, like a credit card in his name. Find something you want him to do around the house, tell him you want him to start doing it, and the STOP doing it. Like his laundry.


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## temperance (Jul 28, 2013)

d1nonle said:


> I also know the stresses of H not working. Mine didn't work for a year almost 2 I think. That drove me nuts and I had serious resentments for him and a total lack of respect. It was a very difficult time in our marriage. I can't imagine having to work through decades of not working. How did you manage that? Do you have resentments and a lack of respect too?


Resentment and lack of respect? Yes of course, therefore i am here unfortunately. But after so many years, I start to question myself there is something seriously wrong with me!


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## temperance (Jul 28, 2013)

turnera said:


> My theory: Men are raised by women and told to go out and play, have fun. As they get older, they get into sports or video games, and their mom STILL takes care of them. They grow up expecting to have fun. Why would they expect their marriage to be any different?
> 
> Women, on the other hand, grow up learning to pretend cook, clean, marry, and have babies. They're groomed to replace their mothers.
> 
> So why would a guy expect anything different than coming home and having fun while the woman takes care of him?


Totally agree!! That's why I don't want to attend my husband's family Christmas gathering this year, fear that I am going to blow out at his mom!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, there was nothing wrong with that concept up until about 40 years ago, when the number of working women started to equal those of the men. Men are happy to have the wife's income, but are slow to come around to the fact that the woman can't work those 40 hours AND still be the housewife. Unless she just gives up sleeping. Imagine that.


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