# Am I wrong?? Am I handling this right?



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

My decision of last week to forfeit MC and to start IC instead was tough, but I feel like it was the right thing to do.

MWIL had it right when she said it sounded like the MC wasn't giving each of us a fair opportunity to present our side, and was responding mostly to what my H said. I was sick and tired of H misrepresenting me and fighting with me in MC, and I was sick and tired of the MC failing to discern the progress we HAVE been making. Turnera was right when she said IC would help me set my boundaries more effectively.

Here's what happened tonight:

We had had a decent day together. Went to church this evening. He was in a weird mood--kind of cranky, kind of defensive, but also cheerful. 

After church we went out for pizza slices, which I was craving. I ordered a plain and a chicken. (bear with me through these seemingly dumb details). 99% of the time, I want veggies all over my pizza. Not this time.

So my H orders a pepperoni and a veggie slice. I asked him why he ordered veggie, since he never likes it. 

He said, "Don't worry, we can just share. You can eat whatever slices of mine you want."

We sit down. He puts the veggie slice on MY plate and takes the chicken slice OFF my plate and puts it on his own plate. I really wanted that chicken piece. After he took a bite, I commented I might not like the chicken slice after all, since it was honey mustard--not my favorite. But I really didn't want the veggie piece.

So I point to the stupid veggie piece of pizza and say, "I didn't order this!" half-laughing, half-annoyed that he had switched our pizza slices. "I ordered THAT!" and pointed to the chicken slice.

He picks up both slices, tosses them on the opposite plates, and says, "THERE!! You want the chicken, take it!! Don't you usually want veggie?? Didn't I say don't worry, we could share everything??"
There was an F-bomb somewhere in there.

I took a deep breath, looked at him and said: "Well, that was a strong reaction."

He got defensive, "So was yours!"

I said, "I just stated fact. I simply told you I hadn't ordered this one. I didn't throw pizza."

Then I tried to let him know I still wanted us to share the slices, and he kept acting like a jerk: "If you keep pushing me about this pizza, I'm going to walk out of here. What's yours is yours and what's MINE is f-in' yours!"

I just got very quiet and cool.

We got in the car to go home, and he was all chit-chatty, but I didn't respond. He stopped and got us milkshakes, since I had wanted to order a milkshake at the pizza place. I still had nothing to say.

Got home. I got ready for bed (it was 8:30), got some books and my laptop, told him I was bringing it to the bedroom, said to him: "Thank you for coming to church. Thank you for pizza dinner. Thank you for the milkshake. I'm going to bed." 
Gave him a kiss good night.

Here's how I see it:

Sure, maybe I was being a little picky, indecisive, and high-maintenance. 
But all this pizza stuff is NOT the point.
I think the point is that he seriously overreacted. That was just uncalled for.
Inappropriate behavior period, let alone IN PUBLIC.

This is like last week. Only that time, I tried to talk to him and get him to apologize for acting like a big baby. Not this time. I have nothing to say to him. 

He knows how I feel--we got home, I went to another room, I'm not happy with how he acted. It's up to him to have the eyes to see his own bad behavior. 

Opinions, thoughts, advice?? Am I in the wrong here? Do I owe HIM an apology? 

What... "Gee honey, I'm so sorry I told you I didn't order the veggie pizza YOU put on my plate and I'm so sorry I told you I wanted the chicken pizza. I apologize for....what, for WANTING A CERTAIN PIECE OF PIZZA??" :scratchhead:

I feel like I'm handling this the right way: I cooled down and went to be alone when I feel like ripping him a new one.

I do NOT expect an apology, though I know I deserve one. 
He is acting like nothing happened.

I don't even want a f-ing apology...well, I do but not as much as I just want a relationship that does NOT include this crap. 

Am I handling this right?? I hope that by not fighting, but NOT engaging with him, that I'm drawing boundaries, and that he learns to grow the hell up.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

I don't know much of your back story.

I might chalk this one up to everyone being hurt and the relationship not yet on the right track with MC/IC. From what you said, I think you handled this right, but it was you writing it and not your husband.



> MWIL had it right when she said it sounded like the MC wasn't giving each of us a fair opportunity to present our side, and was responding mostly to what my H said. I was sick and tired of H misrepresenting me and fighting with me in MC, and I was sick and tired of the MC failing to discern the progress we HAVE been making.


Hopefully IC helps, you might want to get a new MC at the same time. You might need to get a female MC counselor as well if your first one was male. I didn't feel REALLY understood in MC the entire time with our female counselor, but it helped my wife express herself and feel understood.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> My decision of last week to forfeit MC and to start IC instead was tough, but I feel like it was the right thing to do.
> 
> MWIL had it right when she said it sounded like the MC wasn't giving each of us a fair opportunity to present our side, and was responding mostly to what my H said. I was sick and tired of H misrepresenting me and fighting with me in MC, and I was sick and tired of the MC failing to discern the progress we HAVE been making. Turnera was right when she said IC would help me set my boundaries more effectively.
> 
> ...


I don't know how you do it. My H is very much like yours but not quite so touchy and I'm at the end of my rope. Congrats on self-control enough to not smush that pizza in his face! Not much to add as I'm in my own struggle but just so you know you're not alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

C...I will tell you this...I would have walked out of that restaurant and gone home without him. By the time he got there I'd be locked in a room he couldn't get access to. THAT would be me keeping my cool. My urge would be to throw the damned pizza in his face. He acted like an ass. Sorry, but I calls 'em how I seez 'em. And I seez him acting like an ass tonite. 

You handled this better than I would have, fwiw.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I'd love to feel good about us.
Would love to feel good about him.
When I fight in response to this kind of stuff, I feel bad about us both.
Right now, I feel bad about him BUT good about ME.
It's a start, and an important one.
I can't *force* him to see his own ass-ness when he is one.
But hopefully if he's the *only* ass, eventually he will see it.

mm, i know you're pulling for us and you were disappointed about my MC news...but I also know you understand how important it is that I did what was right for *me.*
believe me, if I felt in my gut that MC was helping *more* than not, I wouldve hung onto it.
But it really was enabling my H to stay stuck in finger-pointing, and the guy (our mc) was kind of floundering as to what to do with us next.
IC is giving me what I need, and like I said before, I feel like I took the bull by the horns and made a change in the "solution" we were using for our problems.
My gut told me I needed the IC, and I listened to my gut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

Again, IMO, get a female MC soonish. Maybe after some IC, maybe now.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Creda: first up to put my disclaimer - you know I have the same issues with my OH ref oversensitivity, eggshells, reactions etc so this is NOT taking his part --- 
Is there even the tiniest chance he was trying to be considerate getting veggie 'for you' because you would usually have chosen it therefore when he said not to worry you could share it was so you could have the veggies you like?
If there is the slightest possibility of that it might (a bit) explain his subsequent reaction?
Just a thought, honest!

nb anx: they've had issues of h not wanting to afford MC let alone IC and MC


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

madimoff said:


> Creda: first up to put my disclaimer - you know I have the same issues with my OH ref oversensitivity, eggshells, reactions etc so this is NOT taking his part ---
> Is there even the tiniest chance he was trying to be considerate getting veggie 'for you' because you would usually have chosen it therefore when he said not to worry you could share it was so you could have the veggies you like?
> If there is the slightest possibility of that it might (a bit) explain his subsequent reaction?
> Just a thought, honest!
> ...


Yes, he was being considerate when he ordered the veggie pizza.
That's why I said thank you for dinner when we got home.

AND, he was being immature and inappropriate when he reacted the way he did.
THAT'S why I said nothing else and went to bed.

2 weeks ago when something similar happened, I made the mistake of "asking for an apology" afterwards.
Things got worse.
Not this time.

He knows better.
He won't apologize.
But I won't pretend that behavior is ok with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Phew you being able to not ask for an apology is quite some feat - well done you!
(I've just been demanding one this evening, doesn't really work especially when I've been the one to have to learn how to say sorry so he throws that back at me well and good!)

I think saying a behaviour is not acceptable is the way to go, not sure it necessarily achieves anything straight off (certainly not here) but maybe it'll start to sink in over time, particularly if you say he knows it's not good just getting him to acknowledge and act on that thought


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

madimoff said:


> Phew you being able to not ask for an apology is quite some feat - well done you!
> (I've just been demanding one this evening, doesn't really work especially when I've been the one to have to learn how to say sorry so he throws that back at me well and good!)
> 
> I think saying a behaviour is not acceptable is the way to go, not sure it necessarily achieves anything straight off (certainly not here) but maybe it'll start to sink in over time, particularly if you say he knows it's not good just getting him to acknowledge and act on that thought


He knows.
The second I open my mouth to tell him it's not acceptable, I'm dignifying his immaturity with a response it doesn't deserve.
And putting him on the defensive and inviting a fight I don't want.
I'd love if he'd learn that one simple, sincere "I'm sorry" would do a lot.
He should know that by now.
His hypocrisy is a real turn-off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> mm, i know you're pulling for us and you were disappointed about my MC news...but I also know you understand how important it is that I did what was right for *me.*
> believe me, if I felt in my gut that MC was helping *more* than not, I wouldve hung onto it.
> But it really was enabling my H to stay stuck in finger-pointing, and the guy (our mc) was kind of floundering as to what to do with us next.
> IC is giving me what I need, and like I said before, I feel like I took the bull by the horns and made a change in the "solution" we were using for our problems.
> ...


C...to be honest I wanted IC before MC. Everything starts with "self", kwim? I know you do. You've already come such a long way. No doubt...you'll go further. I admire the heck out of you.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

major misfit said:


> C...to be honest I wanted IC before MC. Everything starts with "self", kwim? I know you do. You've already come such a long way. No doubt...you'll go further. I admire the heck out of you.


As I said above...I have some reason to believe he'll follow my lead with IC.
But even if he doesn't, I'll be in a stronger and better place to respond to him when he's out of line.

Who knows, maybe someday I'll *laugh* at him when he pulls that crap, and it'll defuse him completely and I won't lose a wink of sleep.

P.S. Tonight a friend asked us when we plan to have kids.
H replied: "we already have kids...I need to stop acting like a child."

ummm...YA THINK???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> P.S. Tonight a friend asked us when we plan to have kids.
> H replied: "we already have kids...I need to stop acting like a child."
> 
> ummm...YA THINK???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL! Now..when he realizes he exhibits ass-like behavior, you've got it made! Let's just hope he follows your lead. Hopefully he'll want some of what you've got.


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## Myopia1964 (Feb 10, 2011)

credamdóchasgra said:


> He knows.
> The second I open my mouth to tell him it's not acceptable, I'm dignifying his immaturity with a response it doesn't deserve.
> And putting him on the defensive and inviting a fight I don't want.
> I'd love if he'd learn that one simple, sincere "I'm sorry" would do a lot.
> ...


You've nailed it and this is real progress. I know where you're coming from, but you can't force him to see his"ass-ness" as you put it. It's up to him to change. And you can only control your reaction to his behavior. I know how hard it is to resist the desire to ask him for an apology, but by asking for it, all you're doing is setting yourself up to be the "nagging b*tch," and therefore justifying his childishness. The less you say the better. Hopefully, for his sake, he will realize that he needs to change on his own before you really have become completely turned off (and you will be eventually) and are past the point of no return. The ball's in his court.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm hoping with everything I have, that maturity begets maturity.

When big boys get married, they don't throw pizza and cuss words in public places.
If they have a bad moment they say, "I'm sorry I threw the pizza and the cuss words in the nice restaurant. Guess I had a moment."

BUT...

When big girls get married, they don't TELL their husbands what to say, what's okay and what's not okay.
They live according to standards of decency and expect their partners to do the same.
If their partners have a bad moment, they leave it up to them to realize that.

Even if they don't realize it, big girls don't fight or push.
Because big girls don't play in mud.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Myopia1964 said:


> by asking for it, all you're doing is setting yourself up to be the "nagging b*tch," and therefore justifying his childishness.


*EXACTLY.*


It is exactly what I would've done (and did) according to the old playbook by which he justifies EVERYTHING childish he does.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

But, big girls do have a right to say - without emotion - I don't like what happened yesterday.

And, they let the resulting explosion blow past and - if necessary - create space to let that tantrum subside.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Conrad said:


> But, big girls do have a right to say - without emotion - I don't like what happened yesterday.


But Conrad, aren't you the first one to tell me "He KNOWS how you feel" ?

He KNOWS I don't like what happened. 
I showed him without words.

So now what?

Keep a cool temp??? until....??? 

Old playbook = either I apologize first "for my part" in order to make peace (and then expectantly say "your turn!"), tell him how he should behave, or bring it up the next day.

ALL of that puts me in the head-above-water zone.

In the interest of an improved future...now what?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Here's what happened tonight:
> 
> We had had a decent day together. Went to church this evening. He was in a weird mood--kind of cranky, kind of defensive, but also cheerful.
> 
> ...


Honestly credam, do you ever not get annoyed at ANYTHING? You pitched a passive aggressive hissy fit over a piece of pizza? 



> He picks up both slices, tosses them on the opposite plates, and says, "THERE!! You want the chicken, take it!! Don't you usually want veggie?? Didn't I say don't worry, we could share everything??"
> There was an F-bomb somewhere in there.
> 
> I took a deep breath, looked at him and said: "Well, that was a strong reaction."
> ...


Nice right fight thrown in for good measure.



> Then I tried to let him know I still wanted us to share the slices, and he kept acting like a jerk: "If you keep pushing me about this pizza, I'm going to walk out of here. What's yours is yours and what's MINE is f-in' yours!"
> 
> I just got very quiet and cool.
> 
> ...


A little? Seriously, you need to stop getting pissy about every little thing. You handled this really badly. You could have just said matter of factly, I don't care for the veggie today. May I have some chicken, please?



> But all this pizza stuff is NOT the point.
> I think the point is that he seriously overreacted. That was just uncalled for.
> Inappropriate behavior period, let alone IN PUBLIC.


You keep trying to right fight him to death, you are both going to lose. Seriously, lighten the heck up.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

credamdóchasgra said:


> So my H orders a pepperoni and a veggie slice. I asked him why he ordered veggie, since he never likes it.
> 
> He said, "Don't worry, we can just share. You can eat whatever slices of mine you want."
> .


This is where things went South. You needed to set it straight right then. And told him right at the ordering, that you were not wanting that. If he ordered it he can eat it.

If you usually shared, I can see his confusion. However, I do think he was itching for a fight.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

michzz said:


> This is where things went South. You needed to set it straight right then. And told him right at the ordering, that you were not wanting that. If he ordered it he can eat it.
> 
> If you usually shared, I can see his confusion. However, I do think he was itching for a fight.


I was thinking this too, but then i thought he would probably blow up no matter when she tried to tell him. I think he's just extremely sensitive.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Blanca said:


> I was thinking this too, but then i thought he would probably blow up no matter when she tried to tell him. I think he's just extremely sensitive.


They have gotten themselves into this weird pattern of everything being a massive Big Deal. Someone has to change the dynamic. But they are stuck fighting over who is "right" most of the time.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Mom6547 said:


> They have gotten themselves into this weird pattern of everything being a massive Big Deal. Someone has to change the dynamic. But they are stuck fighting over who is "right" most of the time.


I guess that is one way to look at it and im sure there is some validity to that theory. After all, we've all gotten stuck in that classic marriage drama cycle of being "right" while fighting over petty things. But I'm willing to bet this has more to do with how you view the issues in your marriage then what is really going on for Cred. I think if you read Cred's other posts you will find this is much more then a fight over a piece of pizza, or the superficial "im right" fight.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Blanca said:


> I guess that is one way to look at it and im sure there is some validity to that theory. After all, we've all gotten stuck in that classic marriage drama cycle of being "right" while fighting over petty things. But I'm willing to bet this has more to do with how you view the issues in your marriage then what is really going on for Cred. I think if you read Cred's other posts you will find this is much more then a fight over a piece of pizza, or the superficial "im right" fight.


I know. Every single post of hers seems to point to one giant right fight.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I have stopped fighting.
I am changing the dynamic.
Just f-ing now, here's what happened:
I needed lights on to see without getting a headache.
H asked if we could turn off one light.
I said "I only need them both for about another hour, I get a headache without them both on."
he had a tantrum, told me im unwilling to compromise, and stormed out.

Seriously...
That may sound like a right fight, but I honestly get a damn headache with dim lights. 
Is that really SUCH a big deal??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

credamdóchasgra said:


> That may sound like a right fight, but I honestly get a damn headache with dim lights.
> Is that really SUCH a big deal??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cred he's not fighting about lights.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Blanca said:


> Cred he's not fighting about lights.


I know.
But I have no earthly clue how to stop this cycle.
I've stopped fighting against him.
I don't want to allow tantrums or disrespect.
I'm direct and non-blaming in my language.
I'm calm and sometimes joke.
I've stopped asking him to meet my needs.
What is your advice at this point???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I know.
> But I have no earthly clue how to stop this cycle.
> I've stopped fighting against him.
> I don't want to allow tantrums or disrespect.
> ...


well i think you should find out why him getting upset bothers you so much. What fears and insecurities is he triggering in you? what are you telling yourself about the argument? Is it true? next time he freaks out just let yourself feel the emotions and ask yourself where they come from, what fears and insecurities his emotions bring up. You could provoke him, just for practice


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Blanca said:


> well i think you should find out why him getting upset bothers you so much. What fears and insecurities is he triggering in you? what are you telling yourself about the argument? Is it true? next time he freaks out just let yourself feel the emotions and ask yourself where they come from, what fears and insecurities his emotions bring up. You could provoke him, just for practice


IC helps me with that.
Truly though, I want a relationship where he *doesn't* get upset SO easily.
Deep down I'm thinking he wants that too---who *wants* to get upset???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Deep down I'm thinking he wants that too---who *wants* to get upset???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's a perfect question to ask yourself. 

I really think things will turn around for you. He makes some comments that suggest he is fully aware of how immature he gets.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

I think the oversensitivity thing should not be underplayed; no-one who's not lived with someone (who acknowledges in the case of my OH) oversensitive can seriously know the depths intricacies degrees and generally bizarre nature of the things that can upset them


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I know.
> But I have no earthly clue how to stop this cycle.
> I've stopped fighting against him.


The unfortunate truth is that you cannot control whether or not he responds to your changes. But I do ask you, do you really feel that your response to the pizza was actually not fighting against him?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Blanca said:


> That's a perfect question to ask yourself.
> 
> I really think things will turn around for you. He makes some comments that suggest he is fully aware of how immature he gets.


If I could hug you, dear Blanca...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> The unfortunate truth is that you cannot control whether or not he responds to your changes. But I do ask you, do you really feel that your response to the pizza was actually not fighting against him?


Yes.

I honestly didn't feel I was extreme, and I spoke my truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tpb72 (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm with mom6547 here.

From what I have seen from your story is you have decided to change the dynamic of your relationship by not directly being argumentative which I think is a great start but I don't think you've got it quite right yet. You are kind of coming across as passive aggressive/manipulative/holier than thou instead. I really don't think this is a step in the right direction and could likely just escalate issues.

This altercation could have been avoided with different word choices. As he ordered veggie pizza and you knew right away he did this to try to be nice to you you could have said "babe that's sweet but I'm just not in the mood for veggie pizza today, my chicken will be fine for me". He would have then probably immediately changed the order to something more to his liking and the further bickering would have been avoided. Instead you knew where this was going to go so instead of immediately being open and honest, you let the scenario play out to where you knew there'd be trading of pizza slices which you would then correct him after the fact for making assumptions. You really set the whole scene up for a fight. Then he behaves a little immaturely and with emotion so you then get to be condescending towards him about his behavior. Then you can condescendingly be all mature and everything and withdraw to your room instead of engaging him - sort of like you're his mom giving him a timeout on top of it.

From the other posts of yours I have read I am not by any means suggesting he is in the right but HIS reaction is not your problem. YOUR reaction is. 

You know him well and you know what his weakness are. You continually set these scenes in motion where you know he's going to end up being an a$$. Since you remained calm throughout the whole thing (it's your scene - you were prepared for it) you can walk away feeling better about yourself that you handled everything appropriately and this just proves even more what a jerk he is.

Sorry if I've been a bit harsh but this is JMO from following your story.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I hear you, I really do.

I swear on everything holy that I didn't set him up for failure on purpose.

I swear I wasn't "at peace" with how I handled it.

I swear I don't WANT to be Mommy giving time-out, but HE'S sick and tired of me being Mommy lecturing.

I swear I gave him what HE has asked for:
"If I do something dumb, just say so gently, and then drop it. Give me my space to cool off."
I DID THAT.
Couldn't he give ME what I've asked for?
"If you lose your cool and I give you space to calm down, come back to me and apologize for losing your cool."

I swear I don't think I'm holier than thou, and that I apologize so often, including when HE has a temper tantrum about something, and I figure I must've set him off. 
THIS time, I really didn't feel like reacting to it, because that would escalate.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Honestly credam, do you ever not get annoyed at ANYTHING? You pitched a passive aggressive hissy fit over a piece of pizza?
> 
> 
> Nice right fight thrown in for good measure.
> ...


I'm sure you have me pegged for an utterly self-centered, immature, high-maintenance shrew. You're entitled to your opinion.

But, since I started this thread, I'm choosing to clarify myself here.

What I did was NOT throw a passive aggressive hissy fit.
I didn't get pissy.
I DID ask for the chicken pizza (guess I didn't include that in my OP).

I pretty calmly told my H what I preferred, and he had a very emotional reaction.

And when i said "I stated fact," it was NOT a "right fight for good measure."
I had zero intention of proving anything to him.
My hope was to calm him down. 
He told me I'd been extreme. I know my heart rate didn't increase, and I know i didn't toss pizza onto a plate and start cursing in a public place.

You've shared that in your own marriage, the two most valuable things for you were to see that your H's pov was no more "right" than your own, and the value of lightening up.
Great points, no doubt.

However, I doubt you see the irony in your vehement readiness to point out what YOU perceive to be another person's "right fighting." 
What exactly makes your definition of THIS as a "right fight" true? 
(when *I* know my intention wasn't to be "right." It was to *calm things down.*) 
Have you ever considered how judgmental YOU come across when you deem others judgmental?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I'm sure you have me pegged for an utterly self-centered, immature, high-maintenance shrew. You're entitled to your opinion.


Not at all. I DO believe that you are tenaciously holding on to your position of being RIGHT. I believe that until you can lighten up a bit, you are going to be ineffective at changing the dynamic with your husband. 

If he were here, I would tell him to do the same.





> But, since I started this thread, I'm choosing to clarify myself here.
> 
> What I did was NOT throw a passive aggressive hissy fit.
> I didn't get pissy.
> I DID ask for the chicken pizza (guess I didn't include that in my OP).


That is not what it looked like from your OP.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mom6547, in the past I've welcomed your challenging questions to me, and looked at myself and how I may be coming across.

I asked you some questions about how you come across.
You've chosen to overlook those, and not be challenged by them.
Perhaps "passive aggressively."

does it matter to you what I, or anyone else says re: their OWN intentions?---that I truly *know* my intention had nothing to do with being "right"?
What makes YOUR opinion that *I* was engaged in a "right fight"...."right"?

The irony and hypocrisy of your "right fight" accusations, when YOU are so closed to the possibility that *your* perception (and possibly your projections) might be anything other than "right"...is staggering.
Do you really not see it??

If anything about my posts irritates you or gets under your skin (not that you'd admit it), I invite you to re-read the last paragraph of my reply to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

POPCORN!! LOL

Honestly. This isn't about who is right and whose reaction was right and whose was wrong. This isn't about who scored points and who lost them and about being proper with proper conduct.

Be flexible.

Now you know that with him you have to communicate specifically and to the point. Now you know that next time you should say something like what michzz suggested here. Cut it at the stem, instead of waiting to see what grows out of it. 

Instead of focusing on _how to figure out a workable general way_ that you could apply so that _the whole blow up scenario doesn't happen again_, you focus on who was childish and who was mature, who was this and who was that.

And now it starts evolving into who is right fighting and who is not right fighting.

Your title goes "was I _wrong_? Am I handling this _right_?". It should have been "What should I have done in order to avoid the blowup?"

Do you see that?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> However, I doubt you see the irony in your vehement readiness to point out what YOU perceive to be another person's "right fighting."
> What exactly makes your definition of THIS as a "right fight" true?
> (when *I* know my intention wasn't to be "right." It was to *calm things down.*)
> Have you ever considered how judgmental YOU come across when you deem others judgmental?


Because you could not and would not just let it go.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Mom6547, in the past I've welcomed your challenging questions to me, and looked at myself and how I may be coming across.
> 
> I asked you some questions about how you come across.


Credam, you come here looking for advice. If your husband came here, he would get advice. He isn't here. You are. If you don't like my advice, ignore it.




> You've chosen to overlook those, and not be challenged by them.
> Perhaps "passive aggressively."


You are torqued by my suggestions that you are right fighting. Why is that? 



> does it matter to you what I, or anyone else says re: their OWN intentions?---


Intentions are nice. But actions are what your husband is going to see. 



> that I truly *know* my intention had nothing to do with being "right"?
> What makes YOUR opinion that *I* was engaged in a "right fight"...."right"?
> 
> The irony and hypocrisy of your "right fight" accusations, when YOU are so closed to the possibility that *your* perception (and possibly your projections) might be anything other than "right"...is staggering.
> Do you really not see it??


Credam, I am happily married. I used to be very unhappily married JUST LIKE YOU. Chose to try to understand. Or chose to ignore me. It is no skin off my nose.



> If anything about my posts irritates you or gets under your skin (not that you'd admit it), I invite you to re-read the last paragraph of my reply to you.


LOL. You crafted that neatly. Why would you irritate me? 

I wish you the best of all possible happiness.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Ok.
You don't see the irony then.
Blinders, when one is doing what one accuses most, are a pretty tried and true tool.
I always underestimate their effectiveness!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Ok.
> You don't see the irony then.


I see what you think is irony. 



> Blinders, when one is doing what one accuses most, are a pretty tried and true tool.


THIS. I am not accusing you of anything. This is why I continue to think that you are entrenched in a right fight. You are so busy defending yourself of what you perceive as an accusation. You are so afraid of being wrong that you cannot even entertain the thought.

I could care less about being wrong. I am often wrong. If someone came on here and said Credam, give him head for 7 days in a row and all your problems would be solved. You did that and lived happily ever after, I would be overjoyed for you.

When you come here and tell me what worked, and it is different than what I am saying, I will say Hot Damn, look at that. I was full of sh!t.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

My 2 pen'orth: if I gave my OH head for 7 days in a row sure he'd smile both sides of his skull - for a while- then something that someone did would niggle him & the eggshells would have to come out and I think there's a good chance Creda's H is a little like that
I do see what you mean about right fighting but what mattered in the first instance was the incident in the OP which from her description wasn't right fighting by either of them?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I look forward to the day when *something* "works."
and for the record, I would love to be wrong about a lot of things re: my H.

I just think my marriage issues are so different from what yours were, that your playbook may not work.

Don't get me wrong, I've tried it.
My H isn't yours, and I'm not you.
So a view through your lens may not clarify my situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I look forward to the day when *something* "works."
> and for the record, I would love to be wrong about a lot of things re: my H.


The beautiful thing about being wrong is that we can learn from it. The power rests with us to make things right.



> I just think my marriage issues are so different from what yours were, that your playbook may not work.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I've tried it.
> My H isn't yours, and I'm not you.
> So a view through your lens may not clarify my situation.


I wish you luck.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I feel the same way about being wrong.
It is empowering.
Trouble is, it's not empowering when I'm not the only one who's either "wrong" or can make a difference!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Okay - here's my thought.

Yes, he went over the top with his reaction. And no, he shouldn't have pulled the pizza off your plate that you ordered.

But - I don't believe this whole thing started over pizza.

This is an indication of other issues in the relationship that spilled over into a pizza fiasco.

It appears that there is a quasi-control situation going on with the both of you.

He wants to be in control and you want to be in control.

He wanted to show that he COULD take the slice off your plate (a subtle form of control), and you wanted to show that you COULD own your own slice of pizza (a subtle form of control). Does that make him right, you wrong, him wrong and you right? No.

So I guess my question is - how important was the pizza? Was the pizza the issue or was the issue something else that spilled over onto the pizza because it was conveniently at hand?

In marriage, as in any other relationship - you have to pick your battles.

Would you have been comfortable with looking back and realizing that you both got into a fight over chicken and veggie pizza?

Bottom line--put the focus where it needs to be and not into petty, unimportant issues. Yes, he took YOUR pizza off the plate - you could have just went up to the counter and ordered another slide of chicken pizza if you wanted it that bad, and, you could have refused to eat the veggie one - so what!

I'm saying this from a point of experience. I, too, have been bogged down into little bitty details that at the end of the day mean absolutely nothing. Don't be so bogged down in the 'right fight' that you miss the forrest for the trees.

And no, I wouldn't apologize - but I'm not sure he should either. You both BLEW UP over pizza because of the underlying issues in the marriage, not because of the pizza. I think there's equal blame here, but in a different context from each one's perspective.

Sorry - JMHO.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I feel the same way about being wrong.
> It is empowering.
> Trouble is, it's not empowering when I'm not the only one who's either "wrong" or can make a difference!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But then again, if you are both entrenched in the 'right fight', then neither of you will get anywhere and you will both come out losers in the end - but - you'll both think you were right - and being right doesn't help much when you're sitting home alone without the one you love, does it?

As I've said before - you cannot OWN his issues, just own your own. I see that you focus a lot on what he is not owning up to, where he is not admitting that he is wrong, etc. Let it go...he is a big boy and this is something HE has to work out - if he doesn't, then you make a decision to stay and continue working on the marriage or you leave.

You can't just focus on yourself if you are always focusing on what he is/is not doing. Take the focus off of him and keep it on you.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MWIL..,,
SO TRUE that "this" isn't about pizza
or light switches

but, IMO, about:

power 
self-control 
being stuck in one's own pov (here, in the big picture mom6547 has a point)
feeling respected
feeling cared about 

All of the above apply to both my H and me, on our big picture.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Yes.
> 
> I honestly didn't feel I was extreme, and I spoke my truth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay - but what did it get you?

A fight, a lonely night and another drama filled episode.

Pick your battles - important ones - why waste your time fighting over pizza? Come on...you want to be right so bad that you're willing to start WWIII over chicken and veggie pizza?

Please consider looking up 'right fight' - might bring some perspective to your situation.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Okay - but what did it get you?
> 
> A fight, a lonely night and another drama filled episode.
> 
> ...


why does no one see that I DIDNT WANT TO FIGHT???

HE DID.

I DIDNT ENGAGE.
I BARELY REACTED.

He acted immature and lost self-control.
And cursed at me in public.
HE had the hissy fit, not me.

When he does that, I don't want to fight, but I don't want to be near him either.
So I gave him space to be pissed off all by himself.

Yes, I'll learn from this for the next time.
But I won't learn that I must keep my mouth shut for fear of poking the angry bear and seeing his teeth.
I'll learn to see the good in what he's doing and consider that *before* I speak.
I controlled myself, examine myself, and gave myself what I needed---calm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> MWIL..,,
> SO TRUE that "this" isn't about pizza
> or light switches
> 
> ...


And I mentioned power when I said 'control.' Same thing. 

I understand self-control, but HE needs to work on his - not you - you work on your own.

Did you seriously feel disrespected because he grabbed your slice of chicken pizza? It's what I said - pick your battles. Should he have grabbed the pizza off your plate, no, but so what - go order another one.

The power struggle is going to take you both down if you don't get a handle on it.

Compromise - let him have the power in some situations and you in others. For example - when my husband is driving, he has the power - I don't try to overtake it from the passenger seat with comments about his driving, etc. - if I wanted the power I would have climbed behind the wheel. IOW, his driving makes me nervous (especially after the TBI), but, if I elect not to drive, then he has the power to drive as he wishes and I will live with it, mouth shut - unless there is a truly dangerous situation.

If you quit trying to wrestle for power so much, he may just back down too. You are both trying to drive the bus, when only one bus driver is needed at a time.

Think about that...


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

NO. I didn't feel disrespected when he grabbed the damn pizza.

I felt turned off and disgusted when he tossed it and lost his temper.
Disappointed.
And like he wanted to intimidate me.

I felt disrespected when he cussed and threatened to leave right after.

I am working on my own stuff.
Just because I don't like something he does, doesn't mean I'm not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> why does no one see that I DIDNT WANT TO FIGHT???
> 
> HE DID.
> 
> ...


NOBODY said you wanted to fight.

But I don't believe he did either - he was reacting and he didn't react well and he owns that.

Nobody says you have to keep your mouth shut.

You're looking at this all wrong.

There are times to speak up and other times when it's just not necessary - its about 'picking your battles' not about stuffing things inside, not being able to express yourself, etc. Parents do the same thing with their kids - it's not about you not being heard or being able to say what you want - it's about what's important and what's not.

Him eating your slice of chicken pizza is just not that important - it really isn't. You could have just as well got up and ordered another slice. It's what I said before - this is about you both struggling for control (and power). So you take minor, inconsequential things and make mountains out of molehills.

You need to recognize 'where' its coming from versus 'what' its about. 

I bet $100 bucks that he didn't want to fight either.

Don't take things so personally, quit 'looking into' what he's doing/saying and really pay attention to what he is 'actually' doing or saying - don't wait for the other shoe to drop and constantly be on the defensive - this can make it very hard for one to see things as they really are versus what they perceive.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but I've been where you're at and all it's going to do is make you/he miserable and you will both continue to go round and round the merry-go-round until one of you decides to get off.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> NO. I didn't feel disrespected when he grabbed the damn pizza.
> 
> I felt turned off and disgusted when he tossed it and lost his temper.
> Disappointed.
> ...



And we're not saying that you aren't. 

It appears that you are doing everything YOU can to work on your issues and that is commendable.

Let him work on his own.

I'm not right and you're not wrong and vice versa. Just trying to impart some advice from someone who has been through what you're going through - it's hard, but put a little more effort into picking battles and you might find it easier on yourself.

I realize I'm 'old school', but sometimes us old geezers know a thing or two.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

You make good points, you really do.
I see them and appreciate them.
Just trying to love him without losing me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> You make good points, you really do.
> I see them and appreciate them.
> Just trying to love him without losing me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I understand THAT completely.

I've been in that boat too (without oars)!

Good luck - we're just trying to help - if we didn't care we wouldn't bother to go back and forth with you.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I feel the same way about being wrong.
> It is empowering.
> Trouble is, it's not empowering when I'm not the only one who's either "wrong" or can make a difference!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True enough. It is frustrating. The HOPE is that by changing the things within you that are problematic, you can engender good will in the other. But there just aren't any guarantees!

It took a LONG time of my both de-naggifying and lightening up combined with effective limit setting for my DH to stop acting in a manner that I perceived to be jerkish. I swear to god I almost gave it up.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Just trying to love him without losing me.


Oh I missed this last sentence. I had a strong worry about losing me as well. I remember the obnoxious woman on the then group I belonged to. Man, I hated her. She told me (in a considerably less nice way) that I had best start considering risking losing myself or I will certainly lose him. She was right. I was working so hard to defend my turf. MY vision of what marriage was, what he SHOULD be doing.

I am glad that woman was such a pill. I finally had to ask myself, why the heck does she bother you so? Because she was right. And I did not want her to be right. *I* wanted to be right. Well I was kind right. But so was he. He wanted to be allowed to be himself not some vision I was foisting on him because of my assumptions of what marriage was. Why they hell did I marry HIM if I wanted him to be someone else? 

Anyhoo I found that I can't lose myself. Had my positive changes not engendered positive changes in him, I'd have walked. By defending myself and my stance I WAS losing my grip on myself. I was always confused. Always asking who is right. I did not realize that we both were. And neither of us were. My self is much clearer to me now than it used to be.

Just a thought.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I get it.

It doesn't mean the dynamic of what I'm experiencing is similar enough to what you and your DH went through that i can apply what you applied and expect a turnaround.

The principles are the same; but the details are different, and that is relevant.

"Losing myself" would mean I let absolutely any and everything go and allow myself to be stepped on by him when, frankly, he's NOT treating me with respect---yes, according to my notion of respect. I'm not sure marriage means giving up your own notion of respect because your spouse disregards it. 
I don't give a crap about whether my "definition of respect" is "right."
I just want him to give a crap how I feel and stop minimizing and judging my feelings IF he's in the wrong mood.
He deserves my respect in his terms, too, I don't begrudge him that.

I don't want to be "right."
I want to be happy, peaceful, and mutual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Heartfelt thanks to all 3 of you: don't agree with all of what all of you has said but my goodness there's some learning to be done in this thread and it's on my cut & paste list for when OH returns!


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I guess you probably already know I disagree with Mom and MWIL's perspective on this. 

I dont think you should retreat simply to avoid a fight, or try and keep the relationship calm in that moment. that never works. 

Not stating what you want just to avoid him throwing a temper tantrum is incredibly unhealthy- for you. It will just breed resentment and create more problems down the road. 

I hope you dont stop saying what you want simply to caudal his ridiculous behavior. That is what spouses's of alcoholics tend to do. Its absolutely ridiculous that you couldnt ask for what you ordered, or request the lights stay on, without being confronted with a temper tantrum. That is something one expects from a five year old. I understand that his feelings were probably hurt, he has issues feeling vulnerable, and may even feel emasculated in the relationship. But helping him avoid confronting those feelings by avoiding confrontation is not going to heal the relationship- and certainly not going to keep peace in your own heart.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Blanca said:


> I guess you probably already know I disagree with Mom and MWIL's perspective on this.
> 
> I dont think you should retreat simply to avoid a fight, or try and keep the relationship calm in that moment. that never works.


If you think that is what either of mean, than you misunderstand both of us completely.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Mom6547 said:


> If you think that is what either of mean, than you misunderstand both of us completely.


so specifically, how would cred have avoided a "right" fight in this situation?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Blanca said:


> so specifically, how would cred have avoided a "right" fight in this situation?


The exact term that is going to go BAZING to Credam has not yet been arrived at. MWIL has spoken of control. I speak of what looks like a right fight to me.

I don't always read all of Credam's stuff because it is clear I annoy her. But it seems pretty clear to me that they are both stuck. The one thing I know is that one cannot control another. Both of them are very busy defending their own turf. 

If I were Credam, I would follow a multi pronged recipe

- Lighten WAY the heck up. When he does something stupid with pizza, it doesn't mean anything but he made a mistake with regard to the pizza. It is not some master plan of major disrespect. Gee thanks honey for the veggie, but I prefer the chicken tonight.

- Stop hearing his needs with a Yah but what about me pressing hugely on the conversation. If he says to back off, then back off. 

- For those things that are deal breakers, REALLY deal breakers, set effective limits. When he pitches a hissy fit, you do not have the right to speak to me in that manner. When you are able to resume calm and mature conversation, I will be available. And leave.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

"Annoy"?
Not quite.
I suspect that I annoy you, though. 

What I do find tedious is the hypocrisy in some of your posturing, assumptions, and arrogant reactions to *some* people *sometimes.*
IMO, you have a "conditional" humility and ability to self-reflect and admit you may be wrong---it depends on who the conversation is with, and what the topic is.
You *say* you're open to learning from everyone, that you're no more "right" than anyone else, but that only applies if someone doesn't represent what you, deep down, are staunchly against.

You spend a lot of time judging the "judgmental."
and sometimes you come across as just plain snide. 
Snide doesn't annoy me. I just don't think it's necessary.

I also suspect that we're both different and similar in a few ways.
Despite and because of the differences, I see the value in your pov.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

P.S. I got a little hijacked by the unnecessary comment you threw in for no profitable reason, and replied before I read the rest of your advice.

I sincerely do appreciate your advice and well wishes, so thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> The exact term that is going to go BAZING to Credam has not yet been arrived at. MWIL has spoken of control. I speak of what looks like a right fight to me.
> 
> I don't always read all of Credam's stuff because it is clear I annoy her. But it seems pretty clear to me that they are both stuck. The one thing I know is that one cannot control another. Both of them are very busy defending their own turf.
> 
> ...


do you GET that I didn't feel "disrespected" by his pizza order???

I just wanted damn chicken. Said it.
But when he's in a touchy mood, if I dare repeat myself, he throws a fit.
There is a climate in my marriage that perhaps your marriage does not contain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> I don't always read all of Credam's stuff because it is clear I annoy her.


Don't put it on me why you choose what you will and will not read.
You make your choices based on your own emotions, not those of a person you've never met.
How you presume the latter are "clear" or responsible for your choices, I don't understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

[


Mom6547 said:


> Lighten WAY the heck up. When he does something stupid with pizza, it doesn't mean anything but he made a mistake with regard to the pizza. It is not some master plan of major disrespect. Gee thanks honey for the veggie, but I prefer the chicken tonight.


I think she did simply ask for the pizza. So in that respect she followed your advice. 

I think you might be confusing a couple of things. She was actually OK with him ordering the pizza. She was not OK with him cussing, yelling, and throwing a temper tantrum when she asked for what she had ordered. 



Mom6547 said:


> Stop hearing his needs with a Yah but what about me pressing hugely on the conversation. If he says to back off, then back off.


what were his needs in this situation? how could she have backed off in this situation? 



Mom6547 said:


> For those things that are deal breakers, REALLY deal breakers, set effective limits. When he pitches a hissy fit, you do not have the right to speak to me in that manner. When you are able to resume calm and mature conversation, I will be available. And leave.


If i understand you correctly she should only set effective limits if its over something that is a deal breaker. Are you saying if its not a deal breaker dont set limits? 

We've established she should have asked for the pizza back, which she did. So we're all in agreement on that point. Since this was not a deal breaking situation, what should Cred have specifically done to avoid the "right fight" when he cussed, yelled, and had a tantrum after she asked for what she ordered?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> "Annoy"?
> Not quite.
> I suspect that I annoy you, though.


Nope. Not in the least.



> What I do find tedious is the hypocrisy in some of your posturing, assumptions, and arrogant reactions to *some* people *sometimes.*


OK. I honestly consider that your reading/self esteem issues more than my writing. Do you know ANYONE who writes things they don't believe are correct. But you are entitled to your opinion.



> IMO, you have a "conditional" humility and ability to self-reflect and admit you may be wrong---it depends on who the conversation is with, and what the topic is.
> You *say* you're open to learning from everyone, that you're no more "right" than anyone else, but that only applies if someone doesn't represent what you, deep down, are staunchly against.


Right. But you have to demonstrate to ME that I ought to change my mind. I am not going to change my mind if I just think you (one really) are wrong. Do you do that? When someone fails to convince you of something, do you change your mind? I don't call that arrogance. I call that sensible!



> You spend a lot of time judging the "judgmental."
> and sometimes you come across as just plain snide.


You are reading judgement that is just not there.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Nope. Not in the least.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What does annoy me is a person I don't know telling me what I feel or how i am, instead of simply representing herSELF.
You are just as obvious in conveying YOURself, as you believe I am in conveying myself.
At least I can admit when I do one or both of those things.
If nothing in you reacts whatsoever to what I write, why do you keep replying to me?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

And....

I formed those opinions based on your responses to other people on the forum, not just me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Blanca said:


> [
> 
> I think she did simply ask for the pizza. So in that respect she followed your advice.


I recall that when he gave her the wrong pizza, she made a passive aggressive "joke" about her dislike of the pizza choice. That is what I am referring to. 



> what were his needs in this situation? how could she have backed off in this situation?


In the general sense, in many or most of their interactions, it seems to me that his needs are for her to not analyze the crap out of everything. Let him be himself.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't think he is behaving like a prince. And if he were here I would be telling him to LISTEN TO YOUR DERNED WOMAN. But he isn't. She is the one who is trying to change the dynamic.

If I try to imagine what the DH has going on in his head, I am picturing
- nothing I do is ever good enough for her
- she would not be trying to change me all the time if she loved me the way I am

It is likely in the BACK of his head, not really formed into a conscious. communicable thought. 

But if I felt those things, I would get defensive. When I am defensive, I react with anger. 



> If i understand you correctly she should only set effective limits if its over something that is a deal breaker. Are you saying if its not a deal breaker dont set limits?


I think it is VERY beneficial to have as few limit setting interactions as possible. One might even ask oneself how you wind up with someone whom you don't enjoy enough to have to change many of their behaviors with limits. 

She married him for a reason. I would say focus on those things that made her fall in love with him in the first place.

It is my strong opinion that many people try so hard to meet their own needs, not lose themselves, that they don't do the necessary work to meet the others needs. The way to your own needs is actually THROUGH the others. Right now both of them seem to me to be trying so hard to defend their own needs that no one can break that cycle. In my opinion, the best place to be is in a situation where each partner in a relationship is spending their time and energy on understanding/meeting the OTHERS needs. Neither credam nor her DH feel that they can safely do that without risking losing their own needs in the process. But someone has to change that dynamic. A brave someone might risk losing their own needs to break that cycle. Yes there is no guarantee. BUT what if it engenders the loving response. Once the love bank is getting full, and fewer withdrawals are being made, then the desire for the DH to make deposits in her love bank becomes larger.

And then if it doesn't you/one, has their unfortunate answer.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Don't put it on me why you choose what you will and will not read.
> You make your choices based on your own emotions, not those of a person you've never met.


I do? Here I thought I was trying to be nice. Good luck to you. I wish you all the best.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> I recall that when he gave her the wrong pizza, she made a passive aggressive "joke" about her dislike of the pizza choice. That is what I am referring to.
> 
> 
> In the general sense, in many or most of their interactions, it seems to me that his needs are for her to not analyze the crap out of everything. Let him be himself.
> ...


What you say here is true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> What you say here is true.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a H with similar tempermant to yours. If he is sad, disappointed, annoyed or frustrated - it all comes out as anger and more often than not a tantrum. I have tried it all for 5 years - picking battles, ignoring him, trying to joke him out of it, flirt out of it and it barely makes a difference. I now do whatever the heck I want, stand up for my decision and tune the rest out. There's no more or less fighting and I am true to me. I mean dumb decisions as to whether or not I choose to buy my son lunch as a treat with my own money - not what kind of vehicle to buy. In regards to tantrum over pizza - I would have replied with 'F*** you're embarassing' and walked out. I am fed up with H's crap and should he decide to leave, I am raedy to deal with that too. Not the best way to deal with it but I am truly fed up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

"Everything is a power struggle!" is his belief.

"It doesn't have to be," is mine.

If he can shift his perspective out of fight mode, awesome.

If not...like you, I won't stick around to keep fighting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> "Everything is a power struggle!" is his belief.
> 
> "It doesn't have to be," is mine.
> 
> ...


Never forgetting that within the phrase power struggle the words power and struggle are likely seen with a totally different perception by oversensitive or touchy people

I'd second your liking of Mom's longish post, with the exception of this phrase:
_In the general sense, in many or most of their interactions, it seems to me that his needs are for her to not analyze the crap out of everything. Let him be himself._

People who analyse the crap out of everything (such as myself and arguably Creda) often have good reason; even if the intention is to change the dynamic it's pretty nigh impossible to overlook the need to make sure you're 'reading things right' or aren't about to 'upset' something (even despite all the work Creda's done & her progress made, I'm betting this is somewhere deep inside of her battling not to begone!)


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

madimoff said:


> Never forgetting that within the phrase power struggle the words power and struggle are likely seen with a totally different perception by oversensitive or touchy people
> 
> I'd second your liking of Mom's longish post, with the exception of this phrase:
> _In the general sense, in many or most of their interactions, it seems to me that his needs are for her to not analyze the crap out of everything. Let him be himself._
> ...


I definitely have a strong analytical side.

BUT....it can be used to either damage or benefit the relationship.
I'm working on using that side to aid clarification and real understanding, not bog me down or belabor discussions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Mom6547 said:


> I recall that when he gave her the wrong pizza, she made a passive aggressive "joke" about her dislike of the pizza choice. That is what I am referring to.
> 
> In the general sense, in many or most of their interactions, it seems to me that his needs are for her to not analyze the crap out of everything. Let him be himself.


I understand what you mean about passive aggressively asking for it back, however i thought it was more she felt like she was walking on eggshells and so was trying her best to say it in a way that would not piss him off. 

In this situation I do not think it was appropriate to 'just let him be himself', since himself was disrespectful towards her. in other cases i would agree, but not in this one. 



Mom6547 said:


> If I try to imagine what the DH has going on in his head, I am picturing
> - nothing I do is ever good enough for her
> - she would not be trying to change me all the time if she loved me the way I am
> 
> ...


I completely agree that he feels all these things and that is why he explodes. But, i feel that he needs to learn a more respectful way of expressing his inadequacy. If he chooses to express his feelings of inadequacy in a rage then he will also choose to reap distance and withdrawal from Cred. He could also choose to express his feelings by saying he feels nothing he does is ever good enough and then I am sure Cred would be more then willing to respond. I feel that when you choose your reaction you choose the consequences. I think Cred's response of withdraw was very appropriate for his reaction. 



Mom6547 said:


> I think it is VERY beneficial to have as few limit setting interactions as possible. One might even ask oneself how you wind up with someone whom you don't enjoy enough to have to change many of their behaviors with limits.


This last part is quite complicated. It probably sums up all fighting that ever occurred in any marriage. Perhaps different approaches are better suited for different situations but in my situation the self-sacrifice attitude was really a way to propel resentment. A lot of women and 'nice guys' have this attitude. They are usually very angry people. 

My H and I had to learn to communicate our boundaries over small things without blowing up. It took a lot of emotional work for both of us but I think it is really worth it. There is a lot of fighting and confusion at the onset, especially for the spouse that is playing catch-up (Cred's H in this case). But over time when you can feel calm and at peace even during a disagreement I think it is worth it.


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