# I thought men cheated more..?



## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Looking at all the infidelity threads here and well.. everywhere, they seem to be full of wives cheating. Mostly wives. It makes me do a double take - I know what the stats say, but what I'm asking is.. Are we really just better liars and do we cheat more than men? I know women cheat for sex all the time, but blame their boyfriends behavior at the time. They'll admit it years later though.. I dono, just has me thinking. Out of all the couples you know, how many of the men have cheated, vs the women?

I know.. 3 men who have cheated and.. geez.. 11 women.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

have to say that in my case is around the same amount between women and men, but something that call my attention is the cheating women that I know cheat constantly and and some of them seems even shameless about it, while the men that I know (excluding 2 men-h*res that have been like that since high school) who cheated was with one person in particualr and also continued that relationship on the side


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I don't have any cheating friends I know of, although I have a couple of male friends who slept with married women before they were married.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

kipani said:


> Looking at all the infidelity threads here and well.. everywhere, they seem to be full of wives cheating. Mostly wives. It makes me do a double take - I know what the *stats* say, but what I'm asking is.. Are we really just better liars and do we cheat more than men? I know women cheat for sex all the time, but blame their boyfriends behavior at the time. They'll admit it years later though.. I dono, just has me thinking. Out of all the couples you know, how many of the men have cheated, vs the women?
> 
> I know.. 3 men who have cheated and.. geez.. 11 women.


The new stats show it's about even now with cheaters being from either gender. Of the divorces I'm personally aware of : 4 divorces where one husband cheated and 3 wives cheated


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

The stats available show infidelity to be close to even between genders.

There is no way to get objective stats on the issue due to the delicate nature of the subject matter so take that for what it's worth.

My personal experience though pretty much lines up with those stats.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I figure the numbers for cheating are probably pretty even between men and women. But you see more stories on forums like this posted by betrayed husbands. I think men tend to seek our online support more, whereas women tend to have better support networks in real life. This board, particularly, seems to attract a higher percentage of betrayed husbands than many such boards.

In real life, I know of many more cheating husbands than cheating wives. Perhaps that's because - thanks to monitoring the communications of my now-ex-husband over the course of a year or so prior to our divorce - I know of a lot of men who cheat but have never gotten caught. I don't have that same insight into the hidden lives of the women I know.


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

I've said it before, but this board is a case of water finding its own level. BHs post a lot on here, so others come in and feel as if it's a safe place to share their stories. Surviving Infidelity probably runs 3 to 1 in the other direction (more BWs posting).

I 'spect the numbers are about equal, in reality.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*My IC, a lady counselor who holds a Doctorate in Psychology, told me that the recent trends show that women are now marginally predominant over men by about 1.5%. She said it was primarily due to the advanced state of telecommunications technology that women are far more likely to avail themselves of rather than men.*


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

tacoma said:


> There is no way to get objective stats on the issue due to the delicate nature of the subject matter so take that for what it's worth..


Or for that matter what constitutes as 'cheating'. EA's get particularly sketchy and grey. I've also seen people say porn or strip clubs is a kind of cheating. So, how the question is asked on a survey can be seriously misleading and up to both the person asking and the person answering to make a judgment call based on their own definition. Easily messing with the results...


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Racer said:


> Or for that matter what constitutes as 'cheating'. EA's get particularly sketchy and grey. I've also seen people say porn or strip clubs is a kind of cheating. So, how the question is asked on a survey can be seriously misleading and up to both the person asking and the person answering to make a judgment call based on their own definition. Easily messing with the results...


Yeah, I just don't have any clue how you would control for all the possible false answers in such a survey so I don't have much faith in the veracity of them.

I remember getting a survey in junior high that had questions about whether we were having sex, smoking, toking, all kinds of stuff no kid was going to admit on paper to an adult "anonymous" or not.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Cheating is acting in ways that defy the explicit rules set down by all parties within the relationship. If the rules are undefined, then.. well, you get it.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

As Rowan alluded to, more betrayed husbands come here because they have a sense of anonymity here. Women can talk to just about anyone about a WH and get sympathy. Men feel that if they talk about a WW, they will get scorn and ridicule...

Another reason, I suspect, is that most cheating men tend to cheat for purely physical reasons: pretty black-and-white there.

Most cheating women, on the other hand, tend to cheat for emotional reasons: they probably never meant to get involved with someone outside of their marriage, but they let their guards down and allowed themselves to get too close to their "friend"...

...and many (too many, if you ask me) follow the old mantra that "it's not REALLY cheating if there's no sex".


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

F-102 said:


> As Rowan alluded to, more betrayed husbands come here because they have a sense of anonymity here. Women can talk to just about anyone about a WH and get sympathy. Men feel that if they talk about a WW, they will get scorn and ridicule...
> 
> Another reason, I suspect, is that most cheating men tend to cheat for purely physical reasons: pretty black-and-white there.
> 
> ...


Deludedddd people!

If you EVER have to ask yourself "Is this cheating?" it's cheating. hahaha


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

kipani said:


> Cheating is acting in ways that defy the explicit rules set down by all parties within the relationship. If the rules are undefined, then.. well, you get it.


True but Racers point is how do you phrase that on a survey to get the stats we have?

In order to gain the statistic we have people are surveyed.

One common question on such surveys is ..

Have you ever engaged in infidelity? 
Y or N

I'm likely not going to answer that question from the same point of view as a swinger is going to answer that question.

People have different ideas on what constitutes infidelity.

Some people think going to a strip club or watching porn is infidelity.
Some don't accept that an emotional affair is infidelity while some do.
Some have open marriages.

There's no way to get useful stats out of it really.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Well...I think its kind of down the middle. The type of cheating you engage in influences if you get caught or not. If you're a fling or ONS person you can probably go your whole life and not get caught. 

If you are an affair type it can get complicated. I can't speak for women who stray, but honestly most men tend to hook up and move on. I don't think we're doing it less. I just think we're doing it differently. I won't say I wouldn't be sad if someone I hooked up with got hit by a bus, but at the same time they never held a higher standing than home.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to say that one type is worse than the other. They are both awful things to do.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

F-102 said:


> Another reason, I suspect, is that most cheating men tend to cheat for purely physical reasons: pretty black-and-white there.
> 
> Most cheating women, on the other hand, tend to cheat for emotional reasons:


Coming from a guy who has bedded more than a few married women I can attest this is nothing more than a societal myth.

Women cheat for purely physical reasons just as much as men do.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Coming from a guy who has bedded more than a few married women I can attest this is nothing more than a societal myth.
> 
> Women cheat for purely physical reasons just as much as men do.


That's pretty much been my observation too.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Ever getting an accurate number is near impossible so the default is 50/50 since it does take two to have an affair. I do think that many couples that stay together after infidelity dont want everyone to know. It becomes more the deep family secret more than anything. 

Even if divorce is the end result in cases people will still hide the “reason” maybe because they have children or the perceived stigma that gets attached to people when affairs are involved. 

The people in my life affected by this and ended marriages 7 women cheated, 1 man cheated.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In the last 20 years, I've seen about 40 cases of infidelity, all friends and colleagues, 2 men cheated and 38 women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> In the last 20 years, I've seen about 40 cases of infidelity, all friends and colleagues, 2 men cheated and 38 women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Damn!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I think women always cheated more than men historically. always have and always will. the shear ease of it for women seems like a no brainer to me.

the vast majority of women can get laid any day of the week if they really wanted to. Not even the suavest of men can compete with that.

JMHO


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

If we are dealing in generalizations, then in reality it will always be 50/50 .
Men cheat with women and women cheat with men.

Men cheat with other men in gay relationships , women cheat with other women in lesbian relationships.


It takes TWO people to have sex , whether they are cheating or not.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Depends on where you're at. My experience (observation) is men cheating more than women by a pretty big margin.

But overall it's got to be equal.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

kipani said:


> Looking at all the infidelity threads here and well.. everywhere, they seem to be full of wives cheating. Mostly wives. It makes me do a double take - I know what the stats say, but what I'm asking is.. Are we really just better liars and do we cheat more than men? I know women cheat for sex all the time, but blame their boyfriends behavior at the time. They'll admit it years later though.. I dono, just has me thinking. Out of all the couples you know, how many of the men have cheated, vs the women?
> 
> I know.. 3 men who have cheated and.. geez.. 11 women.


This site tends to have a number of more men than women so that skews the stats of the site.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Tacoma your nick name was familiar and after reading your profile I remembered why, so what happened in the end to the "Poor Clueless Bastard"? if you know it could be good to post it in the original thread.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

If you thought men cheated more, then who do you think they are cheating with??

Other men??

Unless there's an explosion of homosexuality going on, the vast majority of men who cheat are cheating with women (and the women with men). It takes two to tango. So the numbers are always going to be close to 50/50, except maybe in places like Bangkok where prostitutes are everywhere, which would skew the numbers quite a bit.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> If we are dealing in generalizations, then in reality it will always be 50/50 .
> Men cheat with women and women cheat with men.
> 
> Men cheat with other men in gay relationships , women cheat with other women in lesbian relationships.
> ...


A single (man/woman) having sex with a married (woman/man) isn't technically cheating ON THEIR SIDE, particularly if they are lied to as to the status of the other person.

So it isn't as easy as 'every person involved' is a cheater.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Theseus said:


> If you thought men cheated more, then who do you think they are cheating with??
> 
> Other men??
> 
> Unless there's an explosion of homosexuality going on, the vast majority of men who cheat are cheating with women (and the women with men). It takes two to tango. So the numbers are always going to be close to 50/50, except maybe in places like Bangkok where prostitutes are everywhere, which would skew the numbers quite a bit.


Single women?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

manticore said:


> Tacoma your nick name was familiar and after reading your profile I remembered why, so what happened in the end to the "Poor Clueless Bastard"? if you know it could be good to post it in the original thread.


I can update that, if I can find it again.


I'll run a search for it tomorrow and make a final post.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Theseus said:


> If you thought men cheated more, then who do you think they are cheating with??


Could be cheating with single women.

Unfortunately not every OW has a husband to expose her cheating to.
That would be too easy.


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## Magci (Mar 27, 2014)

half and half

We can't say which is more like a cheater.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

F-102 said:


> ...and many (too many, if you ask me) follow the old mantra that "it's not REALLY cheating if there's no sex".


Wait, I thought it wasn't cheating if you were in a different state to your spouse...


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Could be cheating with single women.


JCD & Tacoma,

They can be, but think for a moment what that would mean. If most of the cheating is married men dating single women, then you would have to accept the fact that somehow single women have far less moral qualms about dating married people than single men do. 

If men are such horny cheaters, I think they would also have no problem dating married women as well.

I tend to think that women are by nature, a little less fueled by testosterone and prone to cheat (plus there is some evidence that monogamy is not natural to men). But whether that is true or not, the fact that the female still has to consent to the cheating for it to happen, means that the numbers will always run roughly 50/50 no matter what you do.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Men and women have been cheating since the beginning of time. And it will always be that way.

No statistical pool will ever be accurate because each polling group would be different. You simply can't quantify the numbers.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I tend to think the numbers are pretty even. What could be different is that cheating used to be heavily skewed toward men, when they had all the power, so as woman gained power they started to cheat too. This could make it seem like woman cheat more when it's really evening out.

Of course it's possible that women have always cheated as much as men but had to hide it; the only reason half the men now know about their wife cheating is because she asks for a divorce or gives the ilybnilwy speech; in the days when you couldn't divorce that didn't happen, so hubby would never know. I read somewhere that scientists think that historically up to one third of kids born in wedlock weren't the husbands. DNA testing is very recent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Men and women have been cheating since the beginning of time. And it will always be that way.
> 
> No statistical pool will ever be accurate because each polling group would be different. You simply can't quantify the numbers.


One of the very first things I learned when I became an actuary was that good data is extremely difficult to come by, and even when you have it is highly subject to manipulation and interpretation. I secretly laugh every time I see someone quote statistics, because I know how full of crap statistics usually are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> One of the very first things I learned when I became an actuary was that good data is extremely difficult to come by, and even when you have it is highly subject to manipulation and interpretation. I secretly laugh every time I see someone quote statistics, because I know how full of crap statistics usually are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lies, damn lies, and statistics...


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I personally know far more men cheaters. I think its my demographic. I also know that it rarely ends the relationship and the women, although hurt, will usually get over it. Again, this is people that I know.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> One of the very first things I learned when I became an actuary was that good data is extremely difficult to come by, and even when you have it is highly subject to manipulation and interpretation. I secretly laugh every time I see someone quote statistics, because I know how full of crap statistics usually are.


Righto. It's impossible to ever have perfectly accurate statistics. Everything changes, not to mention the pool group!

I'm actually in the process of writing a proposal and conducting a research study and while I'm excited to see what my results will be, next year they may be totally different! Haha. But what can you do?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> I personally know far more men cheaters. I think its my demographic. I also know that it rarely ends the relationship and the women, although hurt, will usually get over it. Again, this is people that I know.


I'm your demographic and I have to say I agree with you. It definitely applies to my former friends and even my own relationship.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Theseus said:


> JCD & Tacoma,
> 
> They can be, but think for a moment what that would mean. If most of the cheating is married men dating single women, then you would have to accept the fact that somehow single women have far less moral qualms about dating married people than single men do.
> 
> ...


A non-insignificant number of women are lied to about the marital status of their paramour. Another significant cohort does not care i.e. the other person is responsible for their other entanglements.

Lest one paint these later folks as soulless monsters, allow me to use an analogy. If I invite you to dinner and you are allergic to peanuts, it is not MY responsibility to dig for this information. These important PERSONAL issues are on YOU.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ericthesane (May 10, 2013)

Since 78% of all statistics referenced in any given site on the web 50% of the time, numbers are very easy to determine in terms of their truthiness.

What IS true though, is that in any 'normal' human population, the ratio of females to males are roughly 50/50 (a bit skewed to males early on since infant mortality in females are a bit higher, and skewed to females in older cohorts since females have a higher life expectancy.

As a consequence, if it is said that the average males have more sexual partners than females in their lifetime, it must mean that a few females have a very high number of sexual partners.... 

or, it means that someone is lying about the number of partners they have had.

If it is said that males, on the average are more prone to cheat, then, who are they cheating with ? is there a small pool of women that are cheating in enormous numbers ??? (and if so, where are they).....


While there is a lot of value to statistics.... it must be recognized that in these matters, 75% of it is based on anecdotes, lies, fibs, and their cousins confusion, obfuscation and entertainment.

nuff said...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> I personally know far more men cheaters. I think its my demographic. I also know that it rarely ends the relationship and the women, although hurt, will usually get over it. Again, this is people that I know.


How much of that is due to the nature of sharing information? By that, I mean that one theory is that women are more likely to share with their friends (as opposed to men, who go online)? It is also human nature to share information that makes us look good, but not that makes us look bad (like how people discuss the great wins when gambling, but rarely the great losses).

So when a man cheats, the women is likely the share but the man is not (because he looks bad). But when the woman cheats, neither is likely to share this information.

Among folks we know of, my wife and I know a couple of men who have cheated. This comes from the wives telling their friends. We know a few others where the wife appears to be in the wrong (left the house), but no one knows why. Lots of speculation, but no one willing to say these women did cheat.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

What does it matter what group of people does it more. Some man cheat and some don't, some women cheat and some don't.

It really doesn't have to be more complicated than that.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Decades ago, it was understood that men provided inflated body counts and women understated totals, both for adultery and total sexual partners. Since that time, it has been demonstrated that the sexual experience of female participants increases with a perceived increase in survey anonymity.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> I personally know far more men cheaters. I think its my demographic. I also know that it rarely ends the relationship and the women, although hurt, will usually get over it. Again, this is people that I know.


Same here. And the men in our culture don't even bother to hide it, the women don't hold their feet to the fire, and it's just a nasty cycle.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Idk Annie, a lot of my girlfriends who cheated bragged about it to their boyfriends and told them why, rather cruely. "You got fat" "He had nicer abs" "I've been cheating for years, if you paid more attention to me you would have caught on earlier" "You're boring" it's pretty messed up. They told me some awful stories about their bfs at the time though, and then a few years later they confess they were just exaggerating and some even flat out lied.. And cheated, just to cheat, because he pissed them off. Because some other guy paid more attention. Because he didn't 'notice' her. Because he watched too much porn. I've heard em all.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kipani said:


> Idk Annie, a lot of my girlfriends who cheated bragged about it to their boyfriends and told them why, rather cruely. "You got fat" "He had nicer abs" "I've been cheating for years, if you paid more attention to me you would have caught on earlier" "You're boring" it's pretty messed up. They told me some awful stories about their bfs at the time though, and then a few years later they confess they were just exaggerating and some even flat out lied.. And cheated, just to cheat, because he pissed them off. Because some other guy paid more attention. Because he didn't 'notice' her. Because he watched too much porn. I've heard em all.


Seems to me like you need to find new "girlfriends" hehe

They definitely seem to be "girls" (not women) based on the things you said above.

Not healthy for you to be around that....

:scratchhead:


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

kipani said:


> Idk Annie, a lot of my girlfriends who cheated bragged about it to their boyfriends and told them why, rather cruely. "You got fat" "He had nicer abs" "I've been cheating for years, if you paid more attention to me you would have caught on earlier" "You're boring" it's pretty messed up. They told me some awful stories about their bfs at the time though, and then a few years later they confess they were just exaggerating and some even flat out lied.. And cheated, just to cheat, because he pissed them off. Because some other guy paid more attention. Because he didn't 'notice' her. Because he watched too much porn. I've heard em all.


Haha I'm about to be so unPC. I'm referring to black women. These are MY people, MY experiences, and why my mother insisted I not be raised the same way she was. It is trifling. 

I lived in apartment complex that was 99% black folks, next to a bunch of houses that were 90% black. The men would literally apartment hop. Sit outside, talk to women, have his baby's mom in her apartment while he would go talk to girls A, B, and C. I knew quite a few guys that had women pregnant at the same time, delivering their children weeks apart. 

And the women just took it. They'd say "oh he plays around but he always comes back to me." Meanwhile she's pretty much a single mother with 3 kids before she's 25. And everyone KNOWS what the men are doing and just shrug it off. 

My aunt is going through it right now. 20 yrs of flagrant affairs and now Uncle T has kicked her out of her house and moved in his little girlfriend. And she chalks it up to men being men. It's sad.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't let those things influence me. I mean I don't care for cheaters, I think it's cowardly, but it's also got nothing to do with me. My boyfriend hates all of my friends, because his ex actually had all the same type of friends. They got that chick to sleep with like... 4 guys in a weekend. The only friend I did have that did try to tell me he was a crappy bf etc, I got rid of that one.

OHH annie, I understand, I'm from Detroit, moved to Canada a few years ago. There's not many men worth dating there from my experience. early 20s to mid 30s ages guys are like that, but black guys have more testosterone so higher sex drives. I also read somewhere that guys with bigger testicles cheat more. I'm real sorry Annie, I hope you find a good one. My dads best friend is black and hes never cheated on his wife. I wonder though, if the culture of knocking up as many chicks as possible nowadays is somethin to do with it, coz mostly all the white guys in that area are the same. And yes.. All my girlfriends are still in Detroit.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> Haha I'm about to be so unPC. I'm referring to black women. These are MY people, MY experiences, and why my mother insisted I not be raised the same way she was. It is trifling.
> 
> I lived in apartment complex that was 99% black folks, next to a bunch of houses that were 90% black. The men would literally apartment hop. Sit outside, talk to women, have his baby's mom in her apartment while he would go talk to girls A, B, and C. I knew quite a few guys that had women pregnant at the same time, delivering their children weeks apart.
> 
> ...


WOW! Sounds like women like being treated like toilets there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Haha I'm about to be so unPC. I'm referring to black women. These are MY people, MY experiences, and why my mother insisted I not be raised the same way she was. It is trifling.
> 
> I lived in apartment complex that was 99% black folks, next to a bunch of houses that were 90% black. The men would literally apartment hop. Sit outside, talk to women, have his baby's mom in her apartment while he would go talk to girls A, B, and C. I knew quite a few guys that had women pregnant at the same time, delivering their children weeks apart.
> 
> ...


This pretty much sums it up.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> WOW! Sounds like women like being treated like toilets there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It made me sad. They accept so little because that's life. It is what their mothers and grandmothers did. Women hold down the house. Men come and go, with their girlfriends, prison, whatever. 

I'm the only woman in my family who is married to the father of her children. 

Thankfully, men like my friends' husbands and my brother really are trying to break the cycle.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> The men would literally apartment hop. Sit outside, talk to women, have his baby's mom in her apartment while he would go talk to girls A, B, and C. I knew quite a few guys that had women pregnant at the same time, delivering their children weeks apart. .


This is not limited to black folks, although it may be more blatant. If what you so was true to the usual pattern, not all the men were able to apartment hop, only the most attractive, smoothest, 20% or so. These guys are not only able to hop from pad to pad, the women will often be giving money to these guys, sometimes money earned by husbands or boyfriends (the other 80% of guys). I have a diverse clientele and see this with divorced white women all the time.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> This is not limited to black folks, although it may be more blatant. If what you so was true to the usual pattern, not all the men were able to apartment hop, only the most attractive, smoothest, 20% or so. These guys are not only able to hop from pad to pad, the women will often be giving money to these guys, sometimes money earned by husbands or boyfriends (the other 80% of guys). I have a diverse clientele and see this with divorced white women all the time.


Haha I'd love for you to go down and live there for a few months. It might turn your world view upside down. These are not particularly attractive or smart men. They aren't your classic top 20%. They are just squirrels trying to get a nut. Men play. Women hold it down. 

Divorced white women are a whole different kettle of fish.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> It made me sad. They accept so little because that's life. It is what their mothers and grandmothers did. Women hold down the house. Men come and go, with their girlfriends, prison, whatever.
> 
> I'm the only woman in my family who is married to the father of her children.
> 
> Thankfully, men like my friends' husbands and my brother really are trying to break the cycle.


Our core family (brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, 1st cousins) are pretty much the marrying type, and not a lot of divorces. Unfortunately I strongly suspect that some of the married ones are cheating.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Haha I'd love for you to go down and live there for a few months. It might turn your world view upside down. These are not particularly attractive or smart men. They aren't your classic top 20%. They are just squirrels trying to get a nut. Men play. Women hold it down.
> 
> Divorced white women are a whole different kettle of fish.


So true! EVERY man has a couple of loyal women. Even in prison. AND men released from prison have no problem getting back in the circuit.

I think it is because of the numbers. Fewer eligible men for larger pools of women. But I think it continues because women allow it. Simple as that. If more women were not so afraid of not having a man, ANY man, things would change.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> But I think it continues because women allow it. Simple as that. If more women were not so afraid of not having a man, ANY man, things would change.


:iagree:


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> So true! EVERY man has a couple of loyal women. Even in prison. AND men released from prison have no problem getting back in the circuit.
> 
> I think it is because of the numbers. Fewer eligible men for larger pools of women. But I think it continues because women allow it. Simple as that. If more women were not so afraid of not having a man, ANY man, things would change.


I'm totally nodding. They do. My mother and I were just talking about it last night.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I have nothing to add except my own personal perspective, and of the few men I know to have cheated, it was no surprise - they are just the overly charming and arrogant kind of personality that society expects to be unfaithful. The woman who I know to have cheated all were the types that everyone would have pegged to be ultimately faithful, and whose affairs were completely surprising.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> I think women always cheated more than men historically. always have and always will. the shear ease of it for women seems like a no brainer to me.
> 
> the vast majority of women can get laid any day of the week if they really wanted to. Not even the suavest of men can compete with that.
> 
> JMHO


I kind of agree with you, women are the gatekeepers. If a woman doesn't want to cheat she won't, and if she does she will. If a man doesn't want to cheat he won't, if he does - well he may have to work at it (or pay for it).


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ericthesane said:


> Since 78% of all statistics referenced in any given site on the web 50% of the time, numbers are very easy to determine in terms of their truthiness.
> 
> What IS true though, is that in any 'normal' human population, the ratio of females to males are roughly 50/50 (a bit skewed to males early on since infant mortality in females are a bit higher, and skewed to females in older cohorts since females have a higher life expectancy.
> 
> ...


or the 80/20 rule could be at play, and a few "alpha" dudes at the top are doing most of the getting, skewing the average number of parters higher than your "typical" guy.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

kipani said:


> early 20s to mid 30s ages guys are like that, but black guys have more testosterone so higher sex drives. I also read somewhere that guys with bigger testicles cheat more.


I'm not saying you are wrong, but is that statement based on fact? I have heard that there is correlation between larger testes and testosterone level, but is this overall level solely attributable to race? I don't mean to make this a racism thread at all, just want to make sure that statements such as that are based on fact, and you are not just comparing a subset of one part of the population to an entirely different subset (I mean other demographic factors besides race - income, crime, education etc).


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Haha I'd love for you to go down and live there for a few months. It might turn your world view upside down. These are not particularly attractive or smart men. They aren't your classic top 20%. They are just squirrels trying to get a nut. Men play. Women hold it down.
> 
> Divorced white women are a whole different kettle of fish.


chuckles. How about the top 50%? There has to be a bottom to it somewhere.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Theseus said:


> JCD & Tacoma,
> 
> They can be, but think for a moment what that would mean. If most of the cheating is married men dating single women, then you would have to accept the fact that somehow single women have far less moral qualms about dating married people than single men do.
> 
> ...


I don't necessarily disagree Thesus but I don't see why it can't work both ways.

I was a twenty something single guy who had flings with married women.
I did so because I had no real moral foundation in my worldview just as you imply.

Your assumptions concerning men are correct judging from my experience.

As an aside concerning your other statement about monogamy not being natural.

I don't think monogamy is a natural condition for any human male or female.

There are very few animals in this world who practice monogamy naturally and no primates who even consider it other than humans.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

kipani said:


> early 20s to mid 30s ages guys are like that, but black guys have more testosterone so higher sex drives. I also read somewhere that guys with bigger testicles cheat more.





Lon said:


> I'm not saying you are wrong, but is that statement based on fact? I have heard that there is correlation between larger testes and testosterone level, but is this overall level solely attributable to race?


Yes, this is true. Africans, Caucasians, and Asians, from highest to lowest levels of testosterone, both male and female. Of course, this is for the whole group and the variance within groups is enormous. West African males, especially, get a big jolt of T earlier, as well. They also go into andropause sooner, with their T levels dropping below Caucasians in the 40's, at least according to one study. Obviously, this is very important and well known in athletic circles, but it is not talked about much otherwise.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: I thought men cheated more..?*



Machiavelli said:


> Yes, this is true. Africans, Caucasians, and Asians, from highest to lowest levels of testosterone, both male and female. Of course, this is for the whole group and the variance within groups is enormous. West African males, especially, get a big jolt of T earlier, as well. They also go into andropause sooner, with their T levels dropping below Caucasians in the 40's, at least according to one study. Obviously, this is very important and well known in athletic circles, but it is not talked about much otherwise.


I would be interested in reading the source of this info though...


----------



## cactusman76 (Mar 26, 2014)

Women cheat more. They are biologically programmed to cheat. There is a part of her brain that basically makes her defenseless. Women biologically want 2 things- security, and good genes to pass on to her offspring. At certain times, hormones and circumstances will inadvertently cause her to go "gene shopping". In almost every instance where a woman has cheated and told me the story it is the same. "My mind clicked off" "I wasn't thinking" "By the time I realized what I had done it was over". To prove my point, it is well documented that if there is a separation of a few days say 3-4 like a business trip, in a sexually active couple, the man's sperm count will double and in some cases triple to compensate for this pre-programmed infidelity. It is estimated that 22% of men in this country are raising children that aren't theirs, and this number could be as high as 30%.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kipani said:


> I don't let those things influence me.


I don't care how much of a leader you might be, when a person is around SOMETHING (anything) long enough they WILL become like that in some way shape or form. There is no escaping it.



kipani said:


> I mean I don't care for cheaters, I think it's cowardly, but it's also got nothing to do with me. My boyfriend hates all of my friends, because his ex actually had all the same type of friends. They got that chick to sleep with like... 4 guys in a weekend. The only friend I did have that did try to tell me he was a crappy bf etc, I got rid of that one.


Big problem is that when your BF and you have a fight/conflict those friends are the ones that you will go to for advice and companionship.

And that will only make things worse. So he has every reason to hate them and you should be well aware of that and distance yourself from that.

Think about it, if your friends do this sort of thing to their loved ones.......imagine how they will treat YOU as a friend.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

DoF said:


> I don't care how much of a leader you might be, when a person is around SOMETHING (anything) long enough they WILL become like that in some way shape or form. There is no escaping it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


reminds me of a quote I read recently on here (or maybe it was FB), and attributable to Jim Rohn:

“You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.”


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Lon said:


> reminds me of a quote I read recently on here (or maybe it was FB), and attributable to Jim Rohn:
> 
> “You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.”


Nice

Some say "There are 2 kinds of people in this world, followers and leader"

I say "Everyone is a follower when exposed to certain environment long enough".


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tacoma said:


> F-102 said:
> 
> 
> > Another reason, I suspect, is that most cheating men tend to cheat for purely physical reasons: pretty black-and-white there.
> ...


Oh, they do it for emotional reasons ... as in being emotionally unstable. Most cheating women I know are emotionally 'off'.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Lon said:


> I would be interested in reading the source of this info though...


merely one such study:

 This report gives the results of assays of circulating steroid hormone levels in white and black college students in Los Angeles, CA. Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant

Free T is all about muscle and sex drive.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: I thought men cheated more..?*



Machiavelli said:


> merely one such study:
> 
> This report gives the results of assays of circulating steroid hormone levels in white and black college students in Los Angeles, CA. Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant
> 
> Free T is all about muscle and sex drive.


Ok thanks, now that we successfully diverted the topic, I will not mention anything more about race. But it certainly may say something about testosterone if what Annie says is correct, the male studs were more prevalent in her community.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> How much of that is due to the nature of sharing information? By that, I mean that one theory is that women are more likely to share with their friends (as opposed to men, who go online)? It is also human nature to share information that makes us look good, but not that makes us look bad (like how people discuss the great wins when gambling, but rarely the great losses).
> 
> So when a man cheats, the women is likely the share but the man is not (because he looks bad). But when the woman cheats, neither is likely to share this information.
> 
> Among folks we know of, my wife and I know a couple of men who have cheated. This comes from the wives telling their friends. We know a few others where the wife appears to be in the wrong (left the house), but no one knows why. Lots of speculation, but no one willing to say these women did cheat.


Well...honestly I wish it were that way. Trust me as a black man I certainly don't take pride in the fact that we tend to stray more. Not sure why really, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of us view cheating differently. Hooking up with someone is viewed as no where near as big of deal as a full on affair with emotions and I love u's. 

What C4M said is right. Most black women are not going to throw out a man that has other good qualities because he has a tendency to stray. Provided he cleans up his act.

Quite frankly there are a lot of differences based on my experience as a black man that I rarely point out on TAM due to political incorrectness. My mind can't wrap its head around some of the things I read on here. 

Take the sexless posts for example. All these guys with good jobs paying the bills and taking care of the kids and not getting laid? You can throw out all the alpha/beta BS. If a brother is holding it down like that for his family he will get all the sex he needs at home. I think most black women reward their men for working harder instead of punishing them for it like the women in those posts.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

Well - if men are cheating - they are cheating with women (usually) right?!

Regardless, It is disgusting, of low moral character, low self-control and high degree of selfishness.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...honestly I wish it were that way. Trust me as a black man I certainly don't take pride in the fact that we tend to stray more. Not sure why really, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of us view cheating differently. Hooking up with someone is viewed as no where near as big of deal as a full on affair with emotions and I love u's.
> 
> What C4M said is right. Most black women are not going to throw out a man that has other good qualities because he has a tendency to stray. Provided he cleans up his act.
> 
> ...


OMG you are so right! I never thought of it in racial terms at all. I just read the threads about wives not putting out or putting out once or twice a month and I think to myself "there is no way in hel! I could get away with that." Not that I would want to but Mr C4E just would not be having it. What would he do ? IDK probably tell me he's going to leave for awhile to give me a chance to think about things. LOL!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Unique Username said:


> Well - if men are cheating - they are cheating with women (usually) right?!


Not all of them. :rofl:


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...honestly I wish it were that way. Trust me as a black man I certainly don't take pride in the fact that we tend to stray more. Not sure why really, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of us view cheating differently. Hooking up with someone is viewed as no where near as big of deal as a full on affair with emotions and I love u's.
> 
> What C4M said is right. Most black women are not going to throw out a man that has other good qualities because he has a tendency to stray. Provided he cleans up his act.
> 
> ...


Not exactly sure what color has to do with any of this.

No need to generalize and I'm sure there is plenty of black guys that you read about there (and you just don't know). 

All colors go through similar relationship issues.

Also, if you don't find "straying" an issue. Do you allow your wife/girlfriend to do so "every now and then"?

Another thing, you said "as long as it doesn't get emotional/there is no I love yous etc". As if you or people in general are in control of their feelings? You don't know how you will feel once you are intimate with someone. And no you don't know if your feelings will grow for that person or not.

Sounds to me like a pathetic excuse to cheat/disrespect your loved one....sorry


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: I thought men cheated more..?*



DoF said:


> Not exactly sure what color has to do with any of this.
> 
> No need to generalize and I'm sure there is plenty of black guys that you read about there (and you just don't know).
> 
> ...


I think the only reason race was brought into the discussion is because what was said in the tangential conversation about black men having more testosterone, and for me the kind of guys I see getting cheated on much more are the "nice guys" which, I suspect, are usually lower on the testosterone totem pole. And while there are certainly black men that fall into the nice guy category, it just doesn't seem to me near as prevalent as among white men (whether it is racial vs cultural). I guess really what I'm saying is that I believe nice guys get cheated on more, and it probably has something to do with their lower testosterone levels.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Lon said:


> I think the only reason race was brought into the discussion is because what was said in the tangential conversation about black men having more testosterone, and for me the kind of guys I see getting cheated on much more are the "nice guys" which, I suspect, are usually lower on the testosterone totem pole. And while there are certainly black men that fall into the nice guy category, it just doesn't seem to me near as prevalent as among white men (whether it is racial vs cultural). I guess really what I'm saying is that I believe nice guys get cheated on more, and it probably has something to do with their lower testosterone levels.


I don't see how or why you would make these 2 connections.

I consider myself a nice guy and although I'm not sure what my testosterone levels are, I'm extremely sexually active.

I also fail to understand where you getting the connections to black guys and their "testosterone" level.

Maybe watching too much Kardashian shows or social media?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm not referring to nice men that are well balanced with a healthy approach to sex, I'm referring to the ones afflicted with toxic shame about sex and who have poor boundaries and make covert contracts to get things.

The racial part has been discussed on the thread, and whether skin color makes a difference or not, there is certainly a stereotypical high testosterone stud with swagger that charms the ladies without even having to play the beta/"nice guy" tricks.

I'm proud to say I've never once watched any Kardashian shows... And as to the culture I was describing, that is how it looks to most people where I live, I don't presume it is universal, just circumstantial.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

DoF said:


> Not exactly sure what color has to do with any of this.
> 
> No need to generalize and I'm sure there is plenty of black guys that you read about there (and you just don't know).
> 
> ...


I disagree, you haven't walked in my shoes. My experience as a black man in America will be different in many ways than a man of another race. I'm not complaining at all as I'm very comfortable in my skin. There are indeed many cultural differences between races and ethnic groups when it comes to relationships.

I do view myself as a good person, but in the past I did an awful lot of ugly things. Regarding your comment about feelings I can't speak for other men but for me and my peers we really didn't get caught up in it. Its an ugly part of my past but even the names we called the OW were offensive. Terms like "side chick" or "jump off". We'd discuss the type of women we had on our "team". It was all really very disrespectful misogynistic stuff, and it was also very common. 

Now ask any of us about our wives or girlfriends and we would use the term "queen", and we treated them as such, and would never dare say anything negative about them. There is just a whole different level of respect that is there for your wife. It may be difficult for you to understand and I'm sure you find it repulsive, but this was my life and it was the life of my peers. I'm only being real.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

kipani said:


> Looking at all the infidelity threads here and well.. everywhere, they seem to be full of wives cheating. Mostly wives. It makes me do a double take - I know what the stats say, but what I'm asking is.. Are we really just better liars and do we cheat more than men? I know women cheat for sex all the time, but blame their boyfriends behavior at the time. They'll admit it years later though.. I dono, just has me thinking. Out of all the couples you know, how many of the men have cheated, vs the women?
> 
> I know.. 3 men who have cheated and.. geez.. 11 women.


Your perception is skewered because of many things.

First, women tend to have more female friends then male friends. So by having more women friends they will hear more confessions from women being cheaters.

BH's tend to fight more often to save their marriage then a BW. Thus more BH's post.

The physical and mental strain suffered from an affair is tougher on a woman to bear. Many BW can only handle a few weeks. BH's are encouraged to go 6 months minimum and if they can to fight up too 2 years. So another reason why there appears to be more BH posting.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

theroad said:


> Your perception is skewered because of many things.
> 
> First, women tend to have more female friends then male friends. So by having more women friends they will hear more confessions from women being cheaters.
> 
> ...


Wow, this really is a very interesting thread. Everyone has really different perspectives. From my experience BH's are pretty much done with their wives if she steps out. Most of the guys I know don't spend a whole lot of effort trying to get there wife out of the "fog". They move on. Perhaps guys like that don't post on TAM as much? I'm sure they are hurt, its just that they don't feel that the marriage is worth fighting for after that type of betrayal.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: I thought men cheated more..?*



ReformedHubby said:


> Wow, this really is a very interesting thread. Everyone has really different perspectives. From my experience BH's are pretty much done with their wives if she steps out. Most of the guys I know don't spend a whole lot of effort trying to get there wife out of the "fog". They move on. Perhaps guys like that don't post on TAM as much? I'm sure they are hurt, its just that they don't feel that the marriage is worth fighting for after that type of betrayal.


I tried at first to get mine out of the fog, I knew she was in deep but I thought it was the wake up I needed. Then I learned she was using the first OM as a decoy to hide the OM#2. Wow that was quite a feeling :/ So that very instant I was done with her and never really felt like I had the need to look back since. I wouldn't say I moved on very well, but I did, and yes it hurt but TAM helped with the pain and confusion immensely.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> I disagree, you haven't walked in my shoes. My experience as a black man in America will be different in many ways than a man of another race. I'm not complaining at all as I'm very comfortable in my skin. There are indeed many cultural differences between races and ethnic groups when it comes to relationships.


Stop playing the race card or even bringing it up. I came here from another country and have experienced as many/if not worst things than you as a "black man".....FROM black man especially. 

People being idiots/f'ed up to other people has NO color boundaries.

So can we drop the color now? Seriously.



ReformedHubby said:


> I do view myself as a good person, but in the past I did an awful lot of ugly things. Regarding your comment about feelings I can't speak for other men but for me and my peers we really didn't get caught up in it. Its an ugly part of my past but even the names we called the OW were offensive. Terms like "side chick" or "jump off". We'd discuss the type of women we had on our "team". It was all really very disrespectful misogynistic stuff, and it was also very common.


Ok but you clearly said that was during the "ugly" part of your life.

You were probably not fit to make sound/smart decisions or think clearly. And assuming you WERE fit to do so, what I said would stand.

You cannot control your feelings/how you feel. You can polish them but you DO NOT have complete control....sorry.



ReformedHubby said:


> Now ask any of us about our wives or girlfriends and we would use the term "queen", and we treated them as such, and would never dare say anything negative about them. There is just a whole different level of respect that is there for your wife. It may be difficult for you to understand and I'm sure you find it repulsive, but this was my life and it was the life of my peers. I'm only being real.


My wife is my queen, your point?

Besides, if you loved your wife and treated her like a queen you wouldn't be inappropriate/disrespectful towards her (statement before about other women).

So again I ask, if the tables are turned and your wife has sexual relationships with other man. Are you ok with that?

:scratchhead:


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

theroad said:


> BH's tend to fight more often to save their marriage then a BW. Thus more BH's post.


I believe you're also getting skewed beliefs due to this sites prevalence of BH's perhaps?

Stats show that men are far less likely to forgive infidelity than women in general.

Surviving Infidelity: What Wives Do When Men Cheat | LiveScience

This is due to many reasons.

Often women are more dependent on their men for economic stability.

Women tend to focus on the emotional aspects of the cheating while men are more likely to focus on the physical aspect.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> Wow, this really is a very interesting thread. Everyone has really different perspectives. From my experience BH's are pretty much done with their wives if she steps out. Most of the guys I know don't spend a whole lot of effort trying to get there wife out of the "fog". They move on. Perhaps guys like that don't post on TAM as much? I'm sure they are hurt, its just that they don't feel that the marriage is worth fighting for after that type of betrayal.


Your perception meshes with the stats on infidelity and my own personal experience

Men are far more likely to just say "**** This, I'm done" than women are.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

DoF said:


> Stop playing the race card or even bringing it up. I came here from another country and have experienced as many/if not worst things than you as a "black man".....FROM black man especially.
> 
> People being idiots/f'ed up to other people has NO color boundaries.
> 
> ...



DoF,

You're replying to Reformed as if he's talking entirely about himself when he's not.

Most of what he is saying is concerning the culture he grew up in.

While I'm white I have to say what he and Annie are speaking about rings true to me from my own experiences concerning black culture.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

tacoma said:


> Women tend to focus on the emotional aspects of the cheating while men are more likely to focus on the physical aspect.


If that was the case than there wouldn't be much physical cheating with women, and we all know that's not the case.


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

tacoma said:


> Men are far more likely to just say "**** This, I'm done" than women are.


And in my case, even if things looked far more bleak in my life without her. I didn't want to let her go, I just knew what needed to be done and had complete conviction that I needed her to leave.


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

DoF said:


> If that was the case than there wouldn't be much physical cheating with women, and we all know that's not the case.


You can ignore it if you like but nearly every study, stat, and psychologist/counselor in existence stands by it.

It also once again, is correct according to my own experience.

I have never once reconciled with a cheating woman.
Neither have most men I know.

I have never once been tossed aside by a woman when she discovered my cheating.
They always thought they could "fix" me if they just did something better.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

tacoma said:


> You can ignore it if you like but nearly every study, stat, and psychologist/counselor in existence stands by it.


And we all know every study has it's flaws....

Look, if a woman is looking for emotional support....they wouldn't end up in a bed with another man.

That is the end result. Label it any way you want.


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

DoF said:


> Stop playing the race card or even bringing it up. I came here from another country and have experienced as many/if not worst things than you as a "black man".....FROM black man especially.
> 
> People being idiots/f'ed up to other people has NO color boundaries.
> 
> ...


Why is my view point so upsetting to you? I do see color and I think its beautiful that we are culturally different, have different customs etc. etc. I also have had different experiences than you, and with all due respect I know my own people better than you do. 

Its okay for people to be different along cultural lines. We don't all have to be the same and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging our differences.

Race CARD? I wasn't even talking about hardships, I've never played the victim. If anything being a 6 foot 5 chocolatey man has provided me with many, many advantages over my lifetime


----------



## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

kipani said:


> Looking at all the infidelity threads here and well.. everywhere, they seem to be full of wives cheating. Mostly wives. It makes me do a double take - I know what the stats say, but what I'm asking is.. Are we really just better liars and do we cheat more than men? I know women cheat for sex all the time, but blame their boyfriends behavior at the time. They'll admit it years later though.. I dono, just has me thinking. Out of all the couples you know, how many of the men have cheated, vs the women?
> 
> I know.. 3 men who have cheated and.. geez.. 11 women.


Surveys the last few years indicate its about equal nowadays. It used to be mostly male cheaters. Women caught up. Male or female, the tendency is to blame shift.

I only count the married cheaters since relationships can be all sorts of quasi-exclusive. Of those I know, 3 women have cheated and 8 men. But I imagine there are many more infidelities among people I know that were just never made public.

I don't think women are better liars, but I do think women worry more and take more precautions to avoid exposure. All the guys I know were caught because they got sloppy/careless.


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> Why is my view point so upsetting to you? I do see color and I think its beautiful that we are culturally different, have different customs etc. etc. I also have had different experiences than you, and with all due respect I know my own people better than you do.


I'm not disagreeing with above.....first part at least.

Your own people? Does that mean that entire white race is "my people".

Come on now

Your point of view is not upsetting me at all, I'm just telling you that there is NO reason to bring race/color into any of it.

Yes, it's common knowledge that people of certain colors/race do things differently. 



ReformedHubby said:


> Its okay for people to be different along cultural lines. We don't all have to be the same and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging our differences.


Sure, I agree



ReformedHubby said:


> Race CARD? I wasn't even talking about hardships, I've never played the victim. If anything being a 6 foot 5 chocolatey man has provided me with many, many advantages over my lifetime


And off you go again with the color/race BS.

:scratchhead:

And yes, you were talking about hardships. And you don't want to go down that path with me cause I come from a country that will make your hardships look silly....


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

DoF said:


> I'm not disagreeing with above.....first part at least.
> 
> Your own people? Does that mean that entire white race is "my people".
> 
> ...


It's a black thing. You wouldn't understand.

Good day, sir!


----------



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> It's a black thing. You wouldn't understand.
> 
> Good day, sir!


Right, cause one human being can NEVER understand another human being due to color.

That makes sense. How would you feel if I put "white" between everything I wrote or said "it's a white thing, you wouldn't understand"

At the end of the day we are all people that live on planet earth. Color, nationality, gender, religion etc are ALL BS things that segregate people.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

tacoma said:


> You can ignore it if you like but nearly every study, stat, and psychologist/counselor in existence stands by it.
> 
> It also once again, is correct according to my own experience.
> 
> ...


This was my exact experience as well. My ex paid almost no attention to any of my affairs but the one I was emotionally hooked by - you'd have thought there was only one woman. In counseling, she straight up said she didn't give a damn about the sex, it was the emotional hook with another woman that was the big violation. The AP didn't know I was married, and neither one of them ditched me. I fully expected to be dropped on my @ss when everything came out.

One woman has cheated on me, and it was the physical aspect I struggled with. I wasn't sad, I was enraged and then completely detached. I had been stupid crazy in love with her, but I still reflexively cut ties the moment I found out. Very much as you describe, "F--- it. Cya."


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> This was my exact experience as well. My ex paid almost no attention to any of my affairs but the one I was emotionally hooked by - you'd have thought there was only one woman. In counseling, she straight up said she didn't give a damn about the sex, it was the emotional hook with another woman that was the big violation. The AP didn't know I was married, and neither one of them ditched me. I fully expected to be dropped on my @ss when everything came out.
> 
> One woman has cheated on me, and it was the physical aspect I struggled with. I wasn't sad, I was enraged and then completely detached. I had been stupid crazy in love with her, but I still reflexively cut ties the moment I found out. Very much as you describe, "F--- it. Cya."


I'm still failing to understand how SO doesn't care for physical but only emotional.

Naturally, any physical contact can VERY easily lead to emotional feelings.

Again, people have VERY little control of HOW THEY FEEL.

It's like doing heroin but assuming that you won't get hooked. Just doesn't make sense to me at all.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Not all of them. :rofl:


:rofl::rofl: :smthumbup:


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> If anything being a 6 foot 5 chocolatey man has provided me with many, many advantages over my lifetime


Such a lovely sentence 
There are some really beautiful chocolatey men out there


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

DoF said:


> I'm still failing to understand how SO doesn't care for physical but only emotional.
> 
> Naturally, any physical contact can VERY easily lead to emotional feelings.
> 
> ...


Got me, I'm a guy. I suck at emotions. 

My ex would obviously have preferred I not touched anyone, but she repeatedly talked about how she didn't care about the sex, she cared that this one woman *meant* something to me. Maybe in her mind the fact that the sex with others was meaningless made it less offensive. She was most hurt by the fact that some other woman now knew my soft side, emotionally intimate stuff and my "things" which before, only she knew. She made a very big deal of that.

The physical aspect of things was a total non-issue. She even said she wouldn't have felt so hurt if it had all been just sex. Even weirder, she didn't blame me so much as she blamed the OW. To her mind, it was like I was a lost puppy that some hussy got a hold of and manipulated with sex.

That was the running theme. Both my ex and the OW were constantly telling me how the other was manipulating me. Women are weird.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Got me, I'm a guy. I suck at emotions.
> 
> My ex would obviously have preferred I not touched anyone, but she repeatedly talked about how she didn't care about the sex, she cared that this one woman *meant* something to me. Maybe in her mind the fact that the sex with others was meaningless made it less offensive. She was most hurt by the fact that some other woman now knew my soft side, emotionally intimate stuff and my "things" which before, only she knew. She made a very big deal of that.
> 
> ...


I think you made a mistake by going along with what she allowed (sex with other women).

That cant' be healthy/good for your relationship in the long run (but I understand how it might seem nice on the surface).

It's also matter of time before she asks for the same of course.....

What you are dealing with are consequences of her decision and your actions. I have a feeling you knew this sort of thing would probably happen.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

DoF said:


> I think you made a mistake by going along with what she allowed (sex with other women).
> 
> That cant' be healthy/good for your relationship in the long run (but I understand how it might seem nice on the surface).
> 
> ...


She didn't allow it. She didn't know. I'm speaking of her comments after the affairs and going to marriage counseling. During all of it, I was just bitter and out of control; going from one short affair to the next not caring about anything or anyone. I was a walking disaster very unhappy with life in general and paralyzed by keeping up appearances. In truth, I didn't want life with her anymore (long long story I'm not going to get into) and rather than taking that on and going my own way regardless of what anyone else thought of me, I ducked out and became sneaky. It was all on me and my own personal weaknesses.

I chose to divorce, the OW is gone too, and I've rediscovered myself. Spent some time being wild and now I'm pretty cozy a couple years later with a woman I've been dating. I'm in a much better mental place now. I regret that it took me making such a big mess and hurting several people along the way to get here. But you live and learn right?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> She didn't allow it. She didn't know. I'm speaking of her comments after the affairs and going to marriage counseling. During all of it, I was just bitter and out of control; going from one short affair to the next not caring about anything or anyone. I was a walking disaster very unhappy with life in general and paralyzed by keeping up appearances. In truth, I didn't want life with her anymore (long long story I'm not going to get into) and rather than taking that on and going my own way regardless of what anyone else thought of me, I ducked out and became sneaky. It was all on me and my own personal weaknesses.
> 
> I chose to divorce, the OW is gone too, and I've rediscovered myself. Spent some time being wild and now I'm pretty cozy a couple years later with a woman I've been dating. I'm in a much better mental place now. I regret that it took me making such a big mess and hurting several people along the way to get here. But you live and learn right?


Oops, sorry I misunderstood.

I understand now. It happens, as long as you learned from it, that's all that matters (and it seems like you have).

It's a quality if you ask me. Most people don't change or learn lessons so you are def doing something right!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Among my friends and family, the women cheaters outnumber the men cheaters 7 to 4. Anecdotes aren't statistics so if the claim is that they are roughly even I totally buy it.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

DoF said:


> Your point of view is not upsetting me at all, I'm just telling you that there is NO reason to bring race/color into any of it.





> Yes, it's common knowledge that people of certain colors/race do things differently.


You seem to contradict yourself with each post.

If different cultures do things differently then there is a legitimate reason to bring race into it.

Unless you're presuming there is no difference between white culture & black culture in the US.

In that case you're just wrong.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

DoF said:


> If that was the case than there wouldn't be much physical cheating with women, and we all know that's not the case.


The two have nothing to do with each other.

One is the reason behind why women cheat on their men.

The other is the reason women react in a certain way towards their men cheating.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

DoF said:


> I don't care how much of a leader you might be, when a person is around SOMETHING (anything) long enough they WILL become like that in some way shape or form. There is no escaping it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Makes sense. I've been with my friends since childhood though, around that behavior. I haven't changed. I understand them, but I don't need to follow the same road. A lot of them weren't the type to sleep around until they began hanging out with the girls who did though. I'm not that selfish and I have kids to set an example for.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> She even said she wouldn't have felt so hurt if it had all been just sex. Even weirder, she didn't blame me so much as she blamed the OW. To her mind, it was like I was a lost puppy that some hussy got a hold of and manipulated with sex.
> 
> That was the running theme. Both my ex and the OW were constantly telling me how the other was manipulating me. Women are weird.


I've seen that happen quite a lot (from the girls I know who were cheated on), I can't say it surprises me though.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> My ex would obviously have preferred I not touched anyone, but she repeatedly talked about how she didn't care about the sex, she cared that this one woman *meant* something to me. Maybe in her mind the fact that the sex with others was meaningless made it less offensive. She was most hurt by the fact that some other woman now knew my soft side, emotionally intimate stuff and my "things" which before, only she knew. She made a very big deal of that.
> 
> The physical aspect of things was a total non-issue. She even said she wouldn't have felt so hurt if it had all been just sex. Even weirder, she didn't blame me so much as she blamed the OW. To her mind, it was like I was a lost puppy that some hussy got a hold of and manipulated with sex.


I have to say that my wife was the same way. The things that would have upset me even more had it been the other way around didn't seem to bother her as much. She seemed to actually take comfort in the fact that I didn't have any emotional ties out there. I think that would have been a bigger deal breaker for her.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Interesting take on the race aspect of cheating.
But I think you folks are forgetting culture , economics and other social factors.

I live in a very wealthy , ethnically diverse island in the Caribbean where demographically women outnumber men by a ratio of 2:1 or more , depending on how you look at it.
Black , White , Asians, Latino all live here, and EVERYBODY'S cheating from every socio economic strata .

Even among politicians , clergy , educated elite , government ministers.
People tend not to frown on it.I think the problem comes when outside children are born and the man refuses to maintain his kids. The law comes in and it becomes a scandal.

I'm black, my sister cheated on her husband so many times that she even had a kid with one of her OM.He never took care of that kid , I did.
My wife who's Asian [ Indian] had an older sister married to an Asian [ Chinese ] man and she cheated on him with the father of her child.
Then she divorced him.
My father literally had a harem of women because of his looks and he had a high paying job. I had a really weird experience once when I was just around 14 or 15 yrs old. I met a girl who fancied me during a family wedding and we started hanging out as " boyfriend & girlfriend" after the wedding. One of my Aunts noticed and called me aside to inform me that the girl was my half sister , or my father's daughter with another woman. Another time one of my uncles showed us some pics of his half white daughters living in Los Angeles .My father's job took him around the world and he spent most of his time overseas.
He divorced my mother.
Lots of White men here father kids with black women outside of their marriage . Married White women here are known to have a sexual appetite for young , black men.All pretty " normal" stuff.
But even though infidelity is high ,I can't say that any particular race of women accept it. They all do to a certain extent because women outnumber men. Kicking out a husband because he was unfaithful will put them back on the market and women outnumber men 2:1. It's hard to get a man who's single to commit.
Also most women are gainfully employed and support themselves .They have good jobs , own their homes again ,because they outnumber men. 
But most women here are notorious for getting even in all sorts of ways including sabotaging a man's career , wrecking his luxury vehicle ,cleaning out his accounts and / or having a revenge affair.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting take on the race aspect of cheating.
> But I think you folks are forgetting culture , economics and other social factors.
> 
> I live in a very wealthy , ethnically diverse island in the Caribbean where demographically women outnumber men by a ratio of 2:1 or more , depending on how you look at it.
> Black , White , Asians, Latino all live here, and EVERYBODY'S cheating from every socio economic strata .


Do you have any part on the island where people are more conservative and do not cheat?



Caribbean Man said:


> Even among politicians , clergy , educated elite , government ministers.
> People tend not to frown on it.I think the problem comes when outside children are born and the man refuses to maintain his kids. The law comes in and it becomes a scandal.
> 
> I'm black, my sister cheated on her husband so many times that she even had a kid with one of her OM.He never took care of that kid , I did.
> ...


Smashed him.



Caribbean Man said:


> My father literally had a harem of women because of his looks and he had a high paying job. I had a really weird experience once when I was just around 14 or 15 yrs old. I met a girl who fancied me during a family wedding and we started hanging out as " boyfriend & girlfriend" after the wedding. One of my Aunts noticed and called me aside to inform me that the girl was my half sister , or my father's daughter with another woman. Another time one of my uncles showed us some pics of his half white daughters living in Los Angeles .My father's job took him around the world and he spent most of his time overseas.
> He divorced my mother.


You should post a pic of your dad.



Caribbean Man said:


> Lots of White men here father kids with black women outside of their marriage . Married White women here are known to have a sexual appetite for young , black men.All pretty " normal" stuff.
> But even though infidelity is high ,I can't say that any particular race of women accept it. They all do to a certain extent because women outnumber men. Kicking out a husband because he was unfaithful will put them back on the market and women outnumber men 2:1. It's hard to get a man who's single to commit.


A single man won't commit because they will probably get cheated on.



Caribbean Man said:


> Also most women are gainfully employed and support themselves .They have good jobs , own their homes again ,because they outnumber men.
> But most women here are notorious for getting even in all sorts of ways including sabotaging a man's career , wrecking his luxury vehicle ,cleaning out his accounts and / or having a revenge affair.


Why would any man in his right mind get with one of these types of women?


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## Cloaked (Sep 15, 2013)

I know of 2 men, and 4 women that have cheated. Women seem more inclined to take it to their grave according to surveyes I've read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting take on the race aspect of cheating.
> But I think you folks are forgetting culture , economics and other social factors.


Good points. I've seen the economics impact ruin a lot of guys. Men that really never had any attention from women until they became successful in business. They just couldn't deal with it and gave in to temptation. I also think economics certainly can influence a person's decision to reconcile or divorce.

You mentioned your father and although I've never bought it up on TAM sometimes I wonder if a percentage of men that claim they would never cheat would behave differently if you put them in a different body. I've got no proof or studies, but I think its probably tougher for a good looking man to stay faithful because he has more opportunities. I'm not trying to scare the ladies that are married to handsome fellas, but I do think there is something to it.

BTW, my pops was a terror too he was 6 foot 8 and had that Teddy Pendergrass swag/look back in the day. Women would call the house and claim to be in a relationship with him. My mom always ignored the calls because she thought it was just people trying to break them up. I certainly believe what we see as children influences us as well.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

treyvion said:


> A single man won't commit because they will probably get cheated


It's more likely they won't commit because they have their choice of multiple women whenever they want.

Most young men aren't going to do anything to upset the free flowing supply of a variety of sexual partners.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Going back to the OP's post, I wonder why anyone would think that, at least in the equal-opportunity times of today, one sex would cheat more than the other. Why wouldn't the percentages of cheating be more-or-less equal, unless someone is prepared to argue that one sex is inherently more ethical than the other.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

GTdad said:


> Going back to the OP's post, I wonder why anyone would think that, at least in the equal-opportunity times of today, one sex would cheat more than the other. Why wouldn't the percentages of cheating be more-or-less equal, unless someone is prepared to argue that one sex is inherently more ethical than the other.


In the OP's defense it has traditionally been a pretty accepted stereotype.

I don't think the actual numbers are much different today than they have been for hundreds of years.

The disparity between reality and that stereotype lies in how differently men and women historically react to being cheated on.

Most men don't want it known their woman has taken another man due to being branded a cuckold and emasculated by public opinion.
They also don't want their wives to have the reputation of being a *****.

It's almost directly reversed for women.

Women are more likely to make their husbands affair public knowledge because she's likely to get sympathy and support while it hardly damages her husbands reputation as a man.
He's not a *****, he's a stud.
An unfaithful stud but stud none the less.

This is slowly changing thankfully which is why I think we're seeing the official stats even out now but in the past and in many people minds even today that's the way it was/is.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

ReformedHubby said:


> Well...honestly I wish it were that way. Trust me as a black man I certainly don't take pride in the fact that we tend to stray more. Not sure why really, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of us view cheating differently. Hooking up with someone is viewed as no where near as big of deal as a full on affair with emotions and I love u's.
> 
> What C4M said is right. Most black women are not going to throw out a man that has other good qualities because he has a tendency to stray. Provided he cleans up his act.
> 
> ...


I suspect some of this behavior is due to socio-economic factors. I am not saying race/culture is not part of it, but I see some of this dynamic play out among some of my family (all white) who are in what most would call the lower economic class. Men who have a job and some generally desireable traits are given a fair amount of latitude with respect to fidelity. Kids by another woman is looked down on in words, not action, and getting pregnant is used in an attempt get the man.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

tacoma said:


> I don't think the actual numbers are much different today than they have been for hundreds of years.


I think the older numbers indicating men cheated more than women were real not stereotype, but not because women were somehow different back then. Women of the past traditionally stayed at home with children and there was little to no birth control; her infidelity was also major social and support risk as well, whereas it wasn't so much for men. These are likely major inhibiting factors that probably suppressed their opportunity for affairs.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

While there wasn't birth control back then, there also wasn't DNA testing. As long as she didn't sleep with men of another race or a man with other obvious genetic characteristics (like a redhead when her husband is blond) the husband may never have been the wiser about the true paternity.


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