# UNTRUE: Why Nearly Everything We Believe About Women, Lust, and Infidelity Is Wrong a



## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

by Wednesday Martin. Have you read this book? I’m reading it right now. It challenges the idea that men are naturally wanting lots of lovers while women are naturally monogamous. Apparently the truth is that women crave variety at least as much as men.

The author (and others) couldn’t figure out why monogamy would cause her to lose interest in her partners. Guy after guy, it kept happening. She claims she finally met her husband and it’s different with him (I doubt that).

In your experience is this true?


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I'm a woman and while I like variety in my sex life I prefer it to be within a committed relationship. Sleeping around is not something I'll ever want to do. I much prefer monogamy.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> I'm a woman and while I like variety in my sex life I prefer it to be within a committed relationship. Sleeping around is not something I'll ever want to do. I much prefer monogamy.


 Me Too!. I would be intrested to know about the author of the book.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> Me Too!. I would be intrested to know about the author of the book.


Probably another serial cheater trying to justify her behavior. 
SSDD


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> notmyjamie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a woman and while I like variety in my sex life I prefer it to be within a committed relationship. Sleeping around is not something I'll ever want to do. I much prefer monogamy.
> ...


Or want to know the circumstances of the people reading the book that want to believe so badly it's true.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

We were just discussing something similar. My wife had a huge number of partners before marriage but she now says monogamy suits her. Going on 27 years without infidelity and with continuous sex. YMMV.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > notmyjamie said:
> ...


 I'm going to say that for the type of people who want to believe this book , the book is just confirmation bias. And I know what color pill they have probably been swallowing lol


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Back in the day I watched "The Matrix" at the movies. At the point when Neo was presented both the red and blue pill there was someone in the audience that shouted: TAKE THEM BOTH !!!!!!!!

It was quite funny at the time but I reckon I subscribe to both pills but only under the context of individual relationships, people, and under the knowledge that many colors exist between 

black and white.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Wikipedia:

Wendy "Wednesday" Martin is an American author and cultural critic who writes and serves as a commentator on topics like parenting, step-parenting, female sexuality, motherhood, and popular culture. She is the author of five books. She has also written for The New York Times, The Atlantic, Psychology Today, The Huffington Post, Harper's Bazaar, and The Daily Telegraph.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

I wrote a quick review back in January.

_*"What I think Martin fails to appreciate is how much of a “holy ****” this is for one particular (and important) section of our population: Monogamous men that are looking to settle down with one woman for the rest of their lives."*_

Book Review: Untrue by Wednesday Martin


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> by Wednesday Martin. Have you read this book? I’m reading it right now. It challenges the idea that men are naturally wanting lots of lovers while women are naturally monogamous. Apparently the truth is that women crave variety at least as much as men.
> 
> The author (and others) couldn’t figure out why monogamy would cause her to lose interest in her partners. Guy after guy, it kept happening. She claims she finally met her husband and it’s different with him (I doubt that).
> 
> In your experience is this true?



My feeling is that some confuse falling out of love (or never really passionately loving their partner) with the need for variety.

A lot of men can love one woman but wanting to have sex with different women at the same time (I personally can not properly relate to it; but that’s because I may be too obsessed with my wife; maybe under the ‘right’ conditions, I might, but can not foresee a scenario where I would).

Women typically will not do that or want that...(sleeping with different men because they love different types of ****s). They may want to move from one relationship to another but this is not because of the need for variety, it’s because they haven’t found a suitable mate.
Although some might.
I am not sure the label is being applied correctly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I think it’s good for everyone, both men and women, to have a fuller understanding of human sexuality. If anyone doesn’t know yet that both men and women will cheat, want variety, and will take risks for sex, then they need to read ALL the books.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> by Wednesday Martin. Have you read this book? I’m reading it right now. It challenges the idea that men are naturally wanting lots of lovers while women are naturally monogamous. Apparently the truth is that women crave variety at least as much as men.
> 
> The author (and others) couldn’t figure out why monogamy would cause her to lose interest in her partners. Guy after guy, it kept happening. She claims she finally met her husband and it’s different with him (I doubt that).
> 
> In your experience is this true?


I am not sure how this changes anything. The expectation has always been men that they stay faithful to their wives even though they "naturally wanted lots of lovers", that's the deal that most spouses make. So it turns out we are now talking about or admitting in public that women have the same struggles. OK, I suspect most women already knew this unless they were totally not self aware. Guess they will have to have self control and sacrifice like most Men do, but I suspect they already knew that. 

Which makes me wonder what the point is? Is it to warn men? Is it some misguided man's idea to explain to women their own nature? Or is a way to justify open marriages. 

I don't think most reasonable people aren't against open marriages, what they are against is when one party opens the marriage without giving the other the choice. Women's desire doesn't change that. 

To me the bigger problem is people are not willing to accept that you can't have it all, and their are thing much more important then you having it all.

OR just don't say the vows.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

sokillme said:


> I don't think most reasonable people are against open marriages


Can you expand on your position concerning this ?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

mr.married said:


> back in the day i watched "the matrix" at the movies. At the point when neo was presented both the red and blue pill there was someone in the audience that shouted: Take them both !!!!!!!!
> 
> It was quite funny at the time but i reckon i subscribe to both pills but only under the context of individual relationships, people, and under the knowledge that many colors exist between
> 
> black and white.


take the red pill!


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

StillSearching said:


> take the red pill!



LOL .... I knew you would come along !!! >>>


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> LOL .... I knew you would come along !!! >>>


Someone has to be Neo. The One.
But I understand the draw of blue pill. 
We need more Neo's.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> > LOL .... I knew you would come along !!! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a><a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a>
> ...


Nah, we need more Morpheus.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Nah, we need more Morpheus.


After all he did have both the red and blue pill ..... and knew what to do with them.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I have learned it is not too hard to assess the value of an article based on who really really likes it and who really really likes the author. Sometimes


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> After all he did have both the red and blue pill ..... and knew what to do with them.


Yeah, he gave Neo the choice.
But he also took the red pill or he would still be in the matrix. 
Just like the rest of the crew.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mr.Married said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Nah, we need more Morpheus.
> ...


Also because we need more Tyrone and less Chad.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

I suppose this doesn't add much to the discussion here, but the thought struck me pretty hard so I'm gonna' share it. 

I really don't care much about "women" think or how they behave.

I do care greatly about the thought process and motivations of one woman, who I know is very different from "women" in a number of very important ways.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CharlieParker said:


> We were just discussing something similar. My wife had a huge number of partners before marriage but she now says monogamy suits her.



Well as long as you are ok with it and it’s not hurting anyone...you go, frolick and be monogamous then, you crazy kids! 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

dadstartingover said:


> _*"What I think Martin fails to appreciate is how much of a “holy ****” this is for one particular (and important) section of our population: Monogamous men that are looking to settle down with one woman for the rest of their lives."*_


That's the guy's fault for falling for that woman. This isn't new. I remember reading about a doctor from back in the 1400s. Last name Dre. I believe he was the one who first said "you can't make a hoe a housewife"


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> by Wednesday Martin. Have you read this book? I’m reading it right now. It challenges the idea that men are naturally wanting lots of lovers while women are naturally monogamous. Apparently the truth is that women crave variety at least as much as men.
> 
> The author (and others) couldn’t figure out why monogamy would cause her to lose interest in her partners. Guy after guy, it kept happening. She claims she finally met her husband and it’s different with him (I doubt that).
> 
> In your experience is this true?


I doubt that as well. I wouldn't trust any women like that. Bad habits die hard and people usually change when forced to.



TheDudeLebowski said:


> That's the guy's fault for falling for that woman. This isn't new. I remember reading about a doctor from back in the 1400s. Last name Dre. I believe he was the one who first said "you can't make a hoe a housewife"


I'm interested. What doctor are you talking about?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I suppose this doesn't add much to the discussion here, but the thought struck me pretty hard so I'm gonna' share it.
> 
> *I really don't care much about "women" think or how they behave.*
> 
> I do care greatly about the thought process and motivations of one woman, who I know is very different from "women" in a number of very important ways.


Thank you, Rocky, for confirming what I've long suspected as evidenced by:

My post on 8-15-18
Ladies Lounge - Nobody Special's thread: Am I the only one...?

Loose exaction - hmmm - have mulled it over and still can't figure it out. Is that like being a little bit pregnant?

Humor me: I have a theory that men post more in the Ladies Lounge than women post in the Men's Clubhouse* because men act like they want to know what women think (they really don't; they're looking for land-mines & ammo*) and women don't really give a crap about what men think. 

This book sounds like a response to someone saying "You've got some 'splainin' to do, Lucy".


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

One thing that is missing, is, how does everyone not know all this already.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

<Redacted>
Oops. Sorry, didn't notice that this was in the ladies lounge. My bad.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mr.Married said:


> Can you expand on your position concerning this ?


My mistake that should read aren't. I fixed it.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> Thank you, Rocky, for confirming what I've long suspected as evidenced by:
> 
> My post on 8-15-18
> Ladies Lounge - Nobody Special's thread: Am I the only one...?
> ...


I'm sure your impression applies to some. 

I might add that even more, it's men who think they need to tell women where they're foolish, emotional, illogical, or just plain wrong. "hey look, here's a place where I can go and tell the gals they're all wet!" (especially if they dare not try that at home!)

I think some are genuinely there to learn. I like to think it's like the guy who sneaks a peek inside the Cosmo mag while waiting at the grocery store checkout counter... but here being a more valid source of relevant info.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> That's the guy's fault for falling for that woman. This isn't new. I remember reading about a doctor from back in the 1400s. Last name Dre. I believe he was the one who first said "you can't make a hoe a housewife"


Agreed, I don't know why people have such a hard time with this. People lust, it's in their nature. Um it's in the bible and most other major ancient religions. I guess some of the excuse could be how ridiculously puritan our culture used to be, but it's 2019! if you don't get that women lust you not paying attention. 

Women aren't the "fairer" sex in the sense that they are some way more noble then men in the context of their actions. Just like men there are good ones and bad. Though if you are a KISA or a Women's Studies Major you are probably disposed to believe that "fairer" nonsense. If women ruled the world it would probably be just as ****ty depending on which women were in charge, and it probably would end up being the same kind of super narcissists that we get with the men. 

Overall this is why it's a bad idea to let yourself go and not act/dress/speak in ways to be attractive to your mate. Both men and women. 

It's not rocket science and you shouldn't have to read a book to understand that.


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## Tiggy! (Sep 9, 2016)

StillSearching said:


> Someone has to be Neo. The One.
> But I understand the draw of blue pill.
> We need more Neo's.


I agree, Keanu Reeves is an amazing guy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@CraigBesuden

Is that your real name? If it is, you might want to consider changing your user name to something anonymous. Let me know, via PM, what you would like your user name changed to.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Thank you, Rocky, for confirming what I've long suspected as evidenced by:
> 
> My post on 8-15-18
> Ladies Lounge - Nobody Special's thread: Am I the only one...?
> ...


No I assure you, any thinking man wants to know. We are trying to figure you out.

But we just can't. It is very frustrating...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think the idea of average is not as useful as it seems. Men do not date "typical" women they date *specific* women and its the interests / desire of those specific women that matter. Typical and average may help understand how likely it is to find certain characteristics in "specific" women, but there is a wide range available. 

While it may be academically interesting to know about typical women, what matters to me is my partner. 

As an aside, I'm OK with pretty much any non-deceptive behavior. Women who want a single stable partner - great. Women who want many partners and excitement - great. Women who don't want partners - great.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Humor me: I have a theory that men post more in the Ladies Lounge than women post in the Men's Clubhouse* because men act like they want to know what women think (they really don't; they're looking for land-mines & ammo*) and women don't really give a crap about what men think.


And you wonder where people get their notions about what you think of men in general.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cletus said:


> And you wonder where people get their notions about what you think of men in general.


Surprisingly and perhaps disappointing for you, I have never wondered where these mystery people (namely you) get your notions from.

Live long and prosper and get the hell off my lawn.:grin2:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Surprisingly and perhaps disappointing for you, I have never wondered where these mystery people (namely you) get your notions from.
> 
> Live long and prosper and get the hell off my lawn.:grin2:


Well, you called me out a few weeks ago on this one. I didn't think much about it until this last post. 

In all seriousness - do you hold men in general in that low regard, or is it only some of us lucky ones?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Well, you called me out a few weeks ago on this one. I didn't think much about it until this last post.
> 
> In all seriousness - do you hold men in general in that low regard, or is it only some of us lucky ones?


In all seriousness? Only ass holes.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> No I assure you, any thinking man wants to know. We are trying to figure you out.
> 
> But we just can't. It is very frustrating...


But it is fun. Also, some parts imho can be figured out, but many, many seem yep, then go in a direction I never considered. 

Women are fantastic creatures in every way. 

I like'em a lot.

PS I am sucking up a little. ❤


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> In all seriousness? Only ass holes.


Then by extension --

"Humor me: I have a theory that men post more in the Ladies Lounge than women post in the Men's Clubhouse because men act like they want to know what women think (they really don't; they're looking for land-mines & ammo) and women don't really give a crap about what men think. "

you must think (most? only those that post in the ladies lounge?) men are *******s.

I'm not trying to be provocative (nor an *******). It's just the inevitable conclusion from what's been posted. I would hope that you would not think most of us are *******s, site unseen. Well, sure, most of us CAN be that periodically, but as a general rule?

I also avoid FTMP posting in this forum because it has been mentioned enough that it's not really welcome.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But it is fun. Also, some parts imho can be figured out, but many, many seem yep, then go in a direction I never considered.
> 
> Women are fantastic creatures in every way.
> 
> ...


No offense, because like you I LOVE women. 

But honestly if you really think you have more that the basics figured out, then you don't have them figured out. 

I am old enough to figure out, that I don't and will never have them figured out... past a few basic things...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I also avoid FTMP posting in this forum because it has been mentioned enough that it's not really welcome.


Sorry for butting in....

I don't actually care one way or another who posts where, but we have had a lot of posts in LL where a woman asks a question or a man asks a question of women, and the first 3 pages of responses are from men. Now, sometimes this doesn't matter at all, but sometimes it does.

However, this happens less than it used to because a huge amount of posters who used to love to tell women everything they need to know about themselves have left TAM.

Without so MANY of them, as there used to be, I don't see it as a problem anymore.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Then by extension --
> 
> "Humor me: I have a theory that men post more in the Ladies Lounge than women post in the Men's Clubhouse because men act like they want to know what women think (they really don't; they're looking for land-mines & ammo) and women don't really give a crap about what men think. "
> 
> ...


Seriously, I'm laughing here, let it go! 

I know; how about you post a poll asking other male members if Blondie thinks their all ass holes.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Seriously, I'm laughing here, let it go!
> 
> I know; how about you post a poll asking other male members if Blondie thinks their all ass holes.


Fine. Sorry I tried. Guess that'll teach me. No good deed goes unpunished.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Fine. Sorry I tried. Guess that'll teach me. No good deed goes unpunished.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Try that on someone who hasn't been around the block a time or two.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I would be honoured if someone thought of me as an *******. I love those things (not in a gay way, though there’s nothing wrong with that too). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> I would be honoured if someone thought of me as an *******. I love those things (not in a gay way, though there’s nothing wrong with that too).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, IMP, you don't make the grade.:x


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Here's a theory I'll run by you guys to change the subject... Start a new discussion maybe more civilized. 

There's 2 core issues in the Man V Woman battle. Articles like this are a manifestation of these two, as well as terms like hypergamy, and mansplaining...

1) it's easier for a woman to get sex than it is for a man. I think if everyone is honest, this is generally true. Men resent women for this. 

2) its easier for a man to find a good woman than it is for a woman to find a good man. I think if everyone is honest, this is generally true. Women resent men for this. 

Just a theory, not a belief necessarily. What do y'all think?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Here's a theory I'll run by you guys to change the subject... Start a new discussion maybe more civilized.
> 
> There's 2 core issues in the Man V Woman battle. Articles like this are a manifestation of these two, as well as terms like hypergamy, and mansplaining...
> 
> ...


 I honestly have no problem with this theory.

S forest who posts where, it never bothers me when a man posts in the ladies forum to ask a question or to clarify something or to offer the perspective that his wife or girlfriend may have. But when a man comes to the ladies forum to tell all of us females that we are wrong about how we all say we think, as if he, as a man, knows us better than we do… I don't like that period


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> I would be honoured if someone thought of me as an *******. I love those things (not in a gay way, though there’s nothing wrong with that too).


I believe in you, Prime. I think you can make it. Never let the man keep you down!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> 1) it's easier for a woman to get sex than it is for a man. I think if everyone is honest, this is generally true. *Men resent women for this*.
> 
> 2) *its easier for a man to find a good woman than it is for a woman to find a good man*. I think if everyone is honest, this is generally true. Women resent men for this.
> 
> Just a theory, not a belief necessarily. What do y'all think?



I agree with the first bolded, not the second.

Perhaps I just don't know all of these women who apparently constantly lament that they cannot "find a good man". There are good men everywhere and good women snap them up. If a good man can't be had, perhaps the woman trying to have him isn't so good. All of the women I'm close to are with good men or dating them. The single ones are not telling me that there are no good men or that they are hard to find.

As for the first bolded, I don't know if resent is the right word, I think envy would be a better one. But envy to the point of sometimes being weird about it to women seems common.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Here's a theory I'll run by you guys to change the subject... Start a new discussion maybe more civilized.
> 
> There's 2 core issues in the Man V Woman battle. Articles like this are a manifestation of these two, as well as terms like hypergamy, and mansplaining...
> 
> ...


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Here's a theory I'll run by you guys to change the subject... Start a new discussion maybe more civilized.
> 
> There's 2 core issues in the Man V Woman battle. Articles like this are a manifestation of these two, as well as terms like hypergamy, and mansplaining...
> 
> ...


Sounds pretty logical to me.

But the thing I don't get is this: I can't figure out how it is represented as such a "battle." I don't get all the fighting about it. What's wrong with just being different?

I'd be curious to know if it is especially represented here due to the nature of this board ..... Marriage problems.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I'm not sure when men and women being different became such a terrible thing. I guess we would have to ask Gloria steinem lol.



Except in cases where someone just flagrantly cheats, most of the time when a relationship works out, it took both parties to muck it up. I can see how it would be more comforting to decide that my partner, along with my partners entire gender, is flawed and I am the victum.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> I agree with the first bolded, not the second.
> 
> Perhaps I just don't know all of these women who apparently constantly lament that they cannot "find a good man". There are good men everywhere and good women snap them up. If a good man can't be had, perhaps the woman trying to have him isn't so good. All of the women I'm close to are with good men or dating them. The single ones are not telling me that there are no good men or that they are hard to find.
> 
> As for the first bolded, I don't know if resent is the right word, I think envy would be a better one. But envy to the point of sometimes being weird about it to women seems common.


This is for @Blondilocks as well because she said "women tend to live longer than men" so it sort of goes with it.

I don't disagree just playing devils advocate. Sometimes I feel like the largest issues men have are dealing with sexual frustrations. Now, these will show on various different levels from horrible all the way down to just some dumb thought that might cross your mind from time to time. Different men, different upbringings and environments, mental states, all that will play a factor. But I don't think it can change. Envy is a good word yes, for some men. So is jealousy, and resentment for many other men. 

As far as women, it just feels like frustration with men in general. Thats where the theory comes from. To the point about living longer, how many men are out of shape right now? Women LIKE a man to be in shape! Have some muscular tone and a nice build for his height and body type. They like a HEALTHY strong man. Men have to get dragged to the doctor's office haha. There's a disparity of life expectancy due to job choice, but not enough to explain the entire gap. @ConanHub started a thread about "you want to get laid more? Get your ass to the gym" once for a reason after all. I've seen some recent frustrations being discussed regarding this issue with some ladies here. This is just one example of many where its like women are frustrated and saying "DUDES, YOU NEED TO STEP UP!" This frustration leads to all sorts of reactions of all different levels, same as above for men. Women generally speaking just seem more frustrated with men than men are with women. So thats where the theory comes from of more good woman than good men type thing. 

I don't know if I explained that well...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This is for @Blondilocks as well because she said "women tend to live longer than men" so it sort of goes with it.
> 
> I don't disagree just playing devils advocate. Sometimes I feel like the largest issues men have are dealing with sexual frustrations. Now, these will show on various different levels from horrible all the way down to just some dumb thought that might cross your mind from time to time. Different men, different upbringings and environments, mental states, all that will play a factor. But I don't think it can change. Envy is a good word yes, for some men. So is jealousy, and resentment for many other men.
> 
> ...


I totally agree men need to get in better physical shape.

I do not agree this means there is a shortage of "good men".


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This is for @Blondilocks as well because she said "women tend to live longer than men" so it sort of goes with it.
> 
> I don't disagree just playing devils advocate. Sometimes I feel like the largest issues men have are dealing with sexual frustrations. Now, these will show on various different levels from horrible all the way down to just some dumb thought that might cross your mind from time to time. Different men, different upbringings and environments, mental states, all that will play a factor. But I don't think it can change. Envy is a good word yes, for some men. So is jealousy, and resentment for many other men.
> 
> ...


Yes. In addition to choosing riskier occupations (just look at the gender makeup of the military, fire, police, etc.) men also choose much riskier leisure activities in general. That which doesn't kill us does not necessarily make us stronger as the old cliche goes... no, but even if it doesn't kill us outright, it's probably gonna' shorten our life span. 

And yes, men are much more loathe to seek medical (or mental for that matter) health help. I pretty much gotta' be right at death's door before I'll even consider seeing a doc. And then after men see the doc, they often blow off their meds or straight up ignore the doc's recommendations. Men more often refuse to admit they are under stress, and in a testosterone fueled frenzy will actually put themselves deeper in stress just to prove they can handle it. 

I'm sure it was great in cave man days. Those same things that made us good hunters and protectors however, don't bode well for longevity in the modern world.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally agree men need to get in better physical shape.
> 
> I do not agree this means there is a shortage of "good men".


Law of attraction maybe?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm sure it was great in cave man days. Those same things that made us good hunters and protectors however, don't bode well for longevity in the modern world.


Not sure how you can say that? Cave men lived to age 30 and modern man lives to age 80. Seems we have adapted the good hunter/protector behaviors as well as adding modern health care and voila, you have humans living MORE THAN TWICE as long as we naturally would have.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> 1) it's easier for a woman to get sex than it is for a man. I think if everyone is honest, this is generally true. Men resent women for this.
> 
> 2) its easier for a man to find a good woman than it is for a woman to find a good man. I think if everyone is honest, this is generally true. Women resent men for this.


1. It’s easy for women in their twenties to get sex.

2. It’s easy for a man in his 30s - 50s to get married.

The people who have the power are the people who care the least.

There is a theory in the stock market called “max pain.” It refers to the tendency of a stock option’s price will tend to gravitate toward a price that will cause maximum pain, that is, to finish at or near the point that causes the maximum number of options to expire worthless. I think the dating market works the same way.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

duplicate


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> 1) it's easier for a woman to get sex than it is for a man. I think if everyone is honest, this is generally true. Men resent women for this.


As long as all the sex is with me, I don’t mind!

I’m not sure men resent women for this though. Do they? Only if she leaves him for someone else.

But yes, if a woman walked into a bar and bent over, 101% of guys (plus the goat outside) would probably go for it.

The reverse is not true for majority of guys.




TheDudeLebowski said:


> 2) its easier for a man to find a good woman than it is for a woman to find a good man. I think if everyone is honest, this is generally true. Women resent men for this.



Not sure about this. Perhaps it’s because many women are not actively looking/sorting/initiating? Many instead get persuaded into something they may not really want...

Not sure women resent men for it though. They may resent that man that made her sleep with him (and by extension, many men, if that doesn’t go well).

You love stirring the pot don’t you 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not sure how you can say that? Cave men lived to age 30 and modern man lives to age 80. Seems we have adapted the good hunter/protector behaviors as well as adding modern health care and voila, you have humans living MORE THAN TWICE as long as we naturally would have.


I meant that all that testosterone fueled aggressiveness and drive to persevere through injury and discomfort served the clan well--that's how innate male behavior was great for the cave man. The health of the clan didn't depend, or even benefit from elderly dudes hanging around who couldn't throw a spear, so they were of limited utility after a certain age. Yes, we've evolved since then.... but we still let some of that old coding drive behaviors that don't facilitate longevity.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Sorry, IMP, you don't make the grade.:x



I will try harder next time, I promise 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The first is probably true. Just look at how much more common female prostitution is. 

The second? What is a "good man"? Where do you draw the line? I think most women who are willing to put effort into making their partners happy can find a partner who will make them happy- and vice versa.

If "good man" is taken to mean attractive, athletic, high status, wealthy etc - then the there are not a lot of rock star astrophysicists to run marathons. 

Similarly if a man wants to find a woman who is far above average in every way, but he isn't, of course he will have problmes. 




TheDudeLebowski said:


> Here's a theory I'll run by you guys to change the subject... Start a new discussion maybe more civilized.
> 
> There's 2 core issues in the Man V Woman battle. Articles like this are a manifestation of these two, as well as terms like hypergamy, and mansplaining...
> 
> ...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Thank you, Rocky, for confirming what I've long suspected as evidenced by:
> 
> My post on 8-15-18
> Ladies Lounge - Nobody Special's thread: Am I the only one...?
> ...


Well, for me, the only reason that I _think_ this post is in the ladies lounge is because I read your post.

I generally have no idea what forum a particular post is in.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure how you can say that? Cave men lived to age 30 and modern man lives to age 80. Seems we have adapted the good hunter/protector behaviors as well as adding modern health care and voila, you have humans living MORE THAN TWICE as long as we naturally would have.
> ...


But evolution used those testosterone filled men to be strong enough to live long enough to evolve to have modern medicine.

And now we have wealthy silver back males, who we do certainly need in our tribes. All thanks to the massive testes of the cave man.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Just vaguely amused by "cave men". Very few humans lived in caves, caves are just a really good place to preserve remains. 

For paleolithic man there were a lot of different attributes that helped survival. The ability to run down prey (humans are good cursorial hunters ). Good hand eye coordination for thrown rocks. Good hearing / sight to see prey and predators. Ability to heal from minor injuries. etc etc. 

If you look at pictures of the few remaining paleolithic tribes, they are nut full of hunky muscular men. (this isn't a great experiment since so few paleolithic societies still exist it may be far from typical for 10s of thousands of years ago).

One you get to the neolitiic (~12,000 years ago) it gets a lot more complicated. More complex societies, so someone's ability to organize and lead becomes as important as their ability to hit things with clubs. There is enough specialization for "warriors" to develop, but tribes / nations are not necessarily lead by the strongest warriors - though sometimes they are. 

Evolution of behavior can happen quickly (red fox experiment).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Just vaguely amused by "cave men". Very few humans lived in caves, caves are just a really good place to preserve remains.
> 
> For paleolithic man there were a lot of different attributes that helped survival. The ability to run down prey (humans are good cursorial hunters ). Good hand eye coordination for thrown rocks. Good hearing / sight to see prey and predators. Ability to heal from minor injuries. etc etc.
> 
> ...


I understand and agree.

But when we take all of our ancestors and mix them all in an evolution soup and see what we have turned into, we can at least see that the fittest survived. In some ancient men, that required brute strength. In others it required a brilliant mind. In others it required wealth (in whatever form at the time, which could have been food or tools). 

We now have men and women who have a combination of these abilities and skills. And we have survived to such an enormous extent that our very existence now threatens other life on earth. If I refer to our ancient ancestors as cave men, it doesn’t mean I’m talking about the very few actual cave people. I’m just using it as a word to amusingly refer to our collective ancient ancestors. 

Actually I think it was the mixing of all of these ancient people that allowed our current evolution of being basically indestructible except by our own hand.


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## Mamibrth (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok i just had to chime in on this one. 

From an evolutionary standpoint, at least IMO, men were designed and engineered to deliver sperm in order to procreate the species. Women were designed and engineered to receive the strongest most viable sperm and thus ensure the continuation of the species. The male penis has developed into a "sperm removal device"

Sage pub DOI 10.1177/147470490400200105
article on science direct S1090513803000163
(I tried adding the links but the forum wont allow it)

Sperm competition, as it is so called, is a primal driving force in the minds of many men and women. Think about this. Many men fantasize about wife sharing. Many women fantasize about having two men at the same time. Obviously this is excluding those who are LGBT, and i dont mean to do so. Forget about the number of sex partners over the course of a lifetime. its a moot point. Either for men or women. The point is offering the best chance for the strongest offspring. When a woman has several simultaneous lovers, (emotional constraints from religion and society aside) her body chemistry is balanced. Monogamy only ever exposes the woman to one set of male hormones and one set of proteins provided in the male semen. Having several sources balances her and actually is shown to be a mood stabilizer and depression fighter. This is not a "free ticket" to go out and be promiscuous, but simply to shed light on the discussion at hand. 

google "semen mind control"

We have convoluted our modern society into the false belief of monogamy only. It is truly a shame that we think in such small and boxed in terms. While monogamy is great for some, we need to understand that it isnt for all. I dont mean to cause offense, but its evolution.


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