# She Left Me, But I Think I Want Out. She's Fence Sitting.



## JBTX

Separated for over three months

I'm 37
She's 35
2 girls (7 & 12)

3 months back my wife and I had a mild conflict over text message and she told me she wanted to separate after I had asked her if everything was ok, because she had been behaving strangely ever since we got back from our trip at Christmas. I was on my lunch break at work. I did not see it coming. She had been keeping things from me about how she felt, apparently for 2 to 3 years and now she wanted to leave. Her reasoning is my behavior towards her over pent-up resentment over major failures and situation she has neglected over the years. This is nothing new. But I do have a problem I need to address. My attempt to "get her moving and fix things", where interpreted as verbal abuse. And I agree with her. I was not doing a very good job at addressing issues with her. When she told me this, I did not try to change her mind immediately. I simply said "OK" in text. I tried to ask her to slow down when I left work early to hash this out at home, but she was in a very determined mood. I did not stand in her way. I did ask her to consider what we're doing here and should we take a moment. But she had already come to this conclusion long before she said something. 

And just so nobody has to ask, yes she was having an EA and at one point before the OM moved, was a PA. It took me 3 days to figure it out. I knew something wasn't right and I analyze and correlate data for a living. I was sure very quickly of an affair and waited for opportunity to confront and expose. The OM is one of my best friends who happens to live 700 miles away now. He is married. I caught her red handed. She was Best friends with his wife. After I confronted her about it and demanded her show me the private messaging app messages, I picked up her phone. Dialed a contact. She said "oh you're gonna confront him now??" All sarcastic like. I responded "No. I'm calling his wife." She hit the floor screaming and crying like I've never seen her do in the 19 years that I've known her. I squashed their affair. He backed off for multiple reasons. His wife now knows and he is US military and he committed a crime by having sexual intercourse outside his marriage and it's worse if the other person was married. She scolded me that I should have confronted only the OM and allowed them to end it. I felt bad and agreed(mistake of being weak). I now realize I was spot on with my tactics and even my wife agrees in retrospect that I had the right. I should have kept up this take no bs mentality, but my crushed heart talked me into being weak minded.

Fast forward a month: I'm in counseling. I'm trying to woo her. It didn't work, because I'm still being weak. 

A month later: We are in couples counseling, but she has no interest in getting things worked out. But she wants it to work, but her hearts not in it and the feelings for me aren't there. 

Another month later: I back way way off for several weeks and begin moving My Life forward for ME and we really start communicating better. But again her feelings for me aren't enough to reconcile and I accept that. She is in a financial predicament. Too much student debt, not enough income. Has started second job. Can't afford her own place. Lives at her parents. But won't come back just because of financial issues. I really admire that and I don't want her back due to financial security needs. I want her to have financial security, but she's on her own for now and committed. It's a recipe for disaster if she came back in our current situation .We also won't do it "for the kids". I am beginning to let go of resentment towards her over her leaving, the affair, her failings that had major impact on our family and it feels really good. Backing off and moving forward helped that a lot. I'm getting my confidence back. I'm liking me.

So we talked for 4 hours the other night at a outdoor bar. Hours longer than we thought we'd be there. Talked about real issues surrounding the separation that we couldn't even address in counseling. Her guilt and her not giving into to pressure from her guilt to come back. I respect that. It makes her more attractive too. I offer her divorce. Not because I want divorce, but because I don't want her to feel trapped. And I tell her my reasoning that I don't want her to feel trapped that she can't have a divorce or I'll stonewall a divorce. I also tell her that I'm going to be ok without her. She has always required a nudge or a push to proceed with things. I expect her to accept. She declined. She's not ready for that. She Was shocked and confused started trying comprehend what divorce would even look like. I assumed she was just waiting till she could do it herself. So I was shocked too.

So I got a fence sitter on my hands. I can go either way at this point. With her or without her. She betrayed me. Yes. But she's sticking to her guns, despite that coming back would improve her living and financial situation, not to mention alleviate her of guilt. That's not the sign of a weak woman looking for a easy life. 

I am not seeing anyone. I don't have that new connection nipping at my heals to divorce. But I'm considering filing. It's obvious she isn't planning to anytime soon and financial it would be very hard for her to start that process. Meanwhile I'm in limbo, but I'm not in a rush. But seriously it's nonsense to sit around too much. We have no financial benefit by remaining married but separated. We also are not engaging in childish activities by using the children as weapons or trying to rub things in each others faces. Very adult like. All of the issues that pushed it towards separation have been dissolved. It's very confusing for me. And I'm guessing equally confusing for her. 

I don't know if I'm looking for advice or just somebody to hear my story. But I'm positive my future is bright with or without her. 


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## Tatsuhiko

I love your newfound attitude and your newfound strength. Don't let her reel you back in just to watch her sit on the fence. 

If I were you, I'd go ahead and file for divorce, at least to let the reality set in for both of you. You can stop the process at any point if you think there's a chance for reconciliation. But honestly, I'm not so impressed with your wife's attitude. She doesn't seem remorseful at all, and this is a precondition to reconciliation. She might be looking more attractive to you, but when I look around me I see 100 attractive women every day. Most of them are not cheaters.


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## JBTX

Tatsuhiko said:


> I love your newfound attitude and your newfound strength. Don't let her reel you back in just to watch her sit on the fence.
> 
> 
> 
> If I were you, I'd go ahead and file for divorce, at least to let the reality set in for both of you. You can stop the process at any point if you think there's a chance for reconciliation. But honestly, I'm not so impressed with your wife's attitude. She doesn't seem remorseful at all, and this is a precondition to reconciliation. She might be looking more attractive to you, but when I look around me I see 100 attractive women every day. Most of them are not cheaters.




I think you are right. I should file. I need to get my head wrapped around that better. She needs nudging or a gentle firm push sometimes to get moving. But not a shove like I had used with her in the past in attempts to motivate. Originally I had vowed to fight her on a divorce if she ever wanted one. I never told this to her. But I told it to myself. I was just being selfish. 

To clarify on her remorse, she is beginning to show signs of remorse. Very recently in the last few days. Prior to that, she wouldn't acknowledge that she shouldn't have been involved with the OM. She has now acknowledged that she should have ended the affair before deciding to leave. That she shouldn't have kept me in the dark about her feelings. And that she should not have left in a fit of rage, sending the family into a state of trauma. However, she is not in any state to return. 


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## SunCMars

Sorry.

I see no benefit in giving her another whack at you. 

When she opens her hands, her purse, her mind, her heart and lays out all her pluses; such a small number it adds up to.

She does not even brighten your day.....

She reminds me of Eeyore, that sad, sad donkey that had no hope for itself, let alone anyone else. 

Leave her coolly....she left you cold. No malice, no drama. Make her a sad chapter in your life's book of dreams.


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## Marc878

You are the fence sitter.

All you're doing is talking. You should be in a 180 no contact except kids only.

The more you chase, etc the farther they move away.

Your actions around this tell her she can string you along and you'll take it. So far she is correct.


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## Absurdist

JBTX said:


> Meanwhile I'm in limbo, but I'm not in a rush.
> 
> Yes. You are in limbo. Why do you want to stay there?
> 
> But seriously it's nonsense to sit around too much.
> 
> Yes, it's complete nonsense.
> 
> We have no financial benefit by remaining married but separated. We also are not engaging in childish activities by using the children as weapons or trying to rub things in each others faces. Very adult like. All of the issues that pushed it towards separation have been dissolved. It's very confusing for me. And I'm guessing equally confusing for her.
> 
> So both of you are acting like adults and understand all the issues, why stay in this situation? File for divorce so both you can go on with your lives. You need to drive this thing.
> 
> I don't know if I'm looking for advice or just somebody to hear my story. But I'm positive my future is bright with or without her.
> 
> That future can't start as long as you're in limbo.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



OP - who has custody of your girls? They are living in limbo as well.


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## chillymorn69

Shes manipulating you with her horrible behaivor. 

Let me get this straight.........out of the blue she tells you shes leaving . Then you find out shes a cheater. Then she says its your fault. Oh and She never told you she was unhappy 

Lol she sounds like a keeper.


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## Herschel

Just end it. Nobody should be ok with this.


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## Openminded

She was shocked because she thought she was 100% in control of the process. She never thought you might want out. Now that she knows you might divorce her, she may start trying harder to R since her future is looking kind of bleak at the moment. It doesn't usually occur to Waywards that they can't just step back -- whenever they choose -- into the life they abandoned. Be prepared.


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## Lostinthought61

Congratulations you found your balls....please don't give them back the her, that is not remorse or anything of the kind that is her own guilty conconious.....please file that really set reality into place.


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## JBTX

Absurdist said:


> OP - who has custody of your girls? They are living in limbo as well.




I have them three days of the week, she has them 1 day of the week and we rotate weekends. We both split the cost of activities and needs of the children and we have unified household rules that apply in both households. 


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## sokillme

JBTX said:


> Separated for over three months
> 
> I'm 37
> She's 35
> 2 girls (7 & 12)
> 
> 3 months back my wife and I had a mild conflict over text message and she told me she wanted to separate after I had asked her if everything was ok, because she had been behaving strangely ever since we got back from our trip at Christmas. I was on my lunch break at work. I did not see it coming. She had been keeping things from me about how she felt, apparently for 2 to 3 years and now she wanted to leave. Her reasoning is my behavior towards her over pent-up resentment over major failures and situation she has neglected over the years. This is nothing new. But I do have a problem I need to address. My attempt to "get her moving and fix things", where interpreted as verbal abuse. And I agree with her. I was not doing a very good job at addressing issues with her. When she told me this, I did not try to change her mind immediately. I simply said "OK" in text. I tried to ask her to slow down when I left work early to hash this out at home, but she was in a very determined mood. I did not stand in her way. I did ask her to consider what we're doing here and should we take a moment. But she had already come to this conclusion long before she said something.
> 
> And just so nobody has to ask, yes she was having an EA and at one point before the OM moved, was a PA. It took me 3 days to figure it out. I knew something wasn't right and I analyze and correlate data for a living. I was sure very quickly of an affair and waited for opportunity to confront and expose. The OM is one of my best friends who happens to live 700 miles away now. He is married. I caught her red handed. She was Best friends with his wife. After I confronted her about it and demanded her show me the private messaging app messages, I picked up her phone. Dialed a contact. She said "oh you're gonna confront him now??" All sarcastic like. I responded "No. I'm calling his wife." She hit the floor screaming and crying like I've never seen her do in the 19 years that I've known her. I squashed their affair. He backed off for multiple reasons. His wife now knows and he is US military and he committed a crime by having sexual intercourse outside his marriage and it's worse if the other person was married. She scolded me that I should have confronted only the OM and allowed them to end it. I felt bad and agreed(mistake of being weak). I now realize I was spot on with my tactics and even my wife agrees in retrospect that I had the right. I should have kept up this take no bs mentality, but my crushed heart talked me into being weak minded.
> 
> Fast forward a month: I'm in counseling. I'm trying to woo her. It didn't work, because I'm still being weak.
> 
> A month later: We are in couples counseling, but she has no interest in getting things worked out. But she wants it to work, but her hearts not in it and the feelings for me aren't there.
> 
> Another month later: I back way way off for several weeks and begin moving My Life forward for ME and we really start communicating better. But again her feelings for me aren't enough to reconcile and I accept that. She is in a financial predicament. Too much student debt, not enough income. Has started second job. Can't afford her own place. Lives at her parents. But won't come back just because of financial issues. I really admire that and I don't want her back due to financial security needs. I want her to have financial security, but she's on her own for now and committed. It's a recipe for disaster if she came back in our current situation .We also won't do it "for the kids". I am beginning to let go of resentment towards her over her leaving, the affair, her failings that had major impact on our family and it feels really good. Backing off and moving forward helped that a lot. I'm getting my confidence back. I'm liking me.
> 
> So we talked for 4 hours the other night at a outdoor bar. Hours longer than we thought we'd be there. Talked about real issues surrounding the separation that we couldn't even address in counseling. Her guilt and her not giving into to pressure from her guilt to come back. I respect that. It makes her more attractive too. I offer her divorce. Not because I want divorce, but because I don't want her to feel trapped. And I tell her my reasoning that I don't want her to feel trapped that she can't have a divorce or I'll stonewall a divorce. I also tell her that I'm going to be ok without her. She has always required a nudge or a push to proceed with things. I expect her to accept. She declined. She's not ready for that. She Was shocked and confused started trying comprehend what divorce would even look like. I assumed she was just waiting till she could do it herself. So I was shocked too.
> 
> So I got a fence sitter on my hands. I can go either way at this point. With her or without her. She betrayed me. Yes. But she's sticking to her guns, despite that coming back would improve her living and financial situation, not to mention alleviate her of guilt. That's not the sign of a weak woman looking for a easy life.
> 
> I am not seeing anyone. I don't have that new connection nipping at my heals to divorce. But I'm considering filing. It's obvious she isn't planning to anytime soon and financial it would be very hard for her to start that process. Meanwhile I'm in limbo, but I'm not in a rush. But seriously it's nonsense to sit around too much. We have no financial benefit by remaining married but separated. We also are not engaging in childish activities by using the children as weapons or trying to rub things in each others faces. Very adult like. All of the issues that pushed it towards separation have been dissolved. It's very confusing for me. And I'm guessing equally confusing for her.
> 
> I don't know if I'm looking for advice or just somebody to hear my story. But I'm positive my future is bright with or without her.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bottom line is you don't know it now but you will have a better life without such a toxic person in it. She cheated on you with your and her friend for god's sake. There is so much better. Stop wasting time.


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## JBTX

JBTX said:


> I have them three days of the week, she has them 1 day of the week and we rotate weekends. We both split the cost of activities and needs of the children and we have unified household rules that apply in both households.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I will say it's not perfect, but it's not bad. It is stable. The oldest has taken turns lashing out at both of us early on. Probably just trying to express her dislike of us breaking up. She targeted her mother first and later me. She is doing much better now. Is involved in new activities and is very cooperative. Also has been attending counseling and has expressed the desire to try to deal with her anger in counseling. 


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## Evinrude58

This is the key factor you don't mention: She clearly doesn't love you anymore,but likes the benefits living with you offers. She'd be repulsed at sex with you, cold, look for problems, and make you miserable. 
She was cheating on you with your best friend, and her own good friend's husband! You seem to kinda skip over that. Almost like it's not a big deal. It is, because she's a cheater, and because the cheating resulted in totally lost feelings for YOU.

You act like you're in a better place, but you allow your cheater wife to dither and string to along like a puppet.

You told her it would be ok to divorce? No strength in that. Tell her you are filing for divorce, and mean it. She will never have deep feelings for you again.
And she shows zero signs of remorse. You are confusing guilt and regret for remorse. 
Divorce her and move on.


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## aine

Seriously,? What are you waiting for, she doesn't love you, there is no remorse at all, what kind of woman cheats with her H's best friend and her own friend's H. Time to divorce and get on with your life. If by some miracle, she sorts herself out you can always date and marry her again, but tbh there are much better women out there.


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## JBTX

I know. I should divorce her. It's so hard and I don't want to force an ultimatum in doing so. 

I'm so not ready to find another woman. A loyal woman sounds so wonderful. I'm just not ready to drag an innocent new woman into a relationship with me and my baggage. I have to go deal with my crap before I can do that with another person. 

I am going to start some projects like a lift kit for my jeep and learning to tape and bed drywall.

It appears in reality that I am the real Fence Sitter, as another poster commented. I'm a little embarrassed. I am going to sleep now. And I'm going to try to have a fresh head in the morning to address this topic in my head tomorrow. 

Thank you all. 


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## Lostinthought61

I think your confused this not about finding a new woman....maybe in the future...it's about self dignity, it's about self respect, it's about taking control of a situation that clearly is in mayhem, right now you have given her all the power, and more importantly you are proving you kids that your okay being disrespected, dishonor, and betrayed in the cruelest way possible by a friend...I don't know how they are going to respect you.....you file you hold the cards, yeah there is a Chaney she may call your buff but at least you can show your children the cost of the ultimate betrayal


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## Satya

You should always choose working on yourself over finding someone to "complete" you.
You should strive to be a complete and happy human being before thinking of searching for a life partner. You will personally thank yourself for putting in the effort to better yourself.
Never accept less than another complete and happy human being to be with you.


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## thenub

I suggest you read "no more mr nice guy" by Dr Robert Glover and married man's sexlife primer by Athol Kay. You need to grab your balls and take control of your life. Don't wait for her to make decisions. Show strength and let your wife pay for her actions. 


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## farsidejunky

Why are you leaving it up to her?

It seems to me that if you "really like you" as you claim, you would not stand for being treated in such a manner.


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## Herschel

JBTX said:


> I know. I should divorce her. It's so hard and *I don't want to force an ultimatum in doing so. *


You have completely neutered yourself to any viable solution. The only way you can fix something that is broken by someone else is be willing to give it all up because you deserve better.


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## farsidejunky

JBTX said:


> I think you are right. I should file. I need to get my head wrapped around that better. She needs nudging or a gentle firm push sometimes to get moving. But not a shove like I had used with her in the past in attempts to motivate. Originally I had vowed to fight her on a divorce if she ever wanted one. I never told this to her. But I told it to myself. I was just being selfish.
> 
> To clarify on her remorse, she is beginning to show signs of remorse. Very recently in the last few days. Prior to that, she wouldn't acknowledge that she shouldn't have been involved with the OM. She has now acknowledged that she should have ended the affair before deciding to leave. That she shouldn't have kept me in the dark about her feelings. And that she should not have left in a fit of rage, sending the family into a state of trauma. However, she is not in any state to return.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This post says it all.

You are considering filing so you can get her to choose. B.S. At this point, filing should be because you love yourself too much to allow someone to think that, even for a moment, this situation is okay.

Overwhelming debt; two jobs for ends to meet; cheats on her friend with a friend of her husband; no idea what she wants... These are not traits of a partner. Her problems are large, and they will only get fixed when she chooses to fix them, which will take years of therapy and discipline.

As for you...you talk too much with her. Talk less, do more.


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## WorkingOnMe

Why settle for someone who doesn't fight for you?


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## Yeswecan

JBTX said:


> I have them three days of the week, she has them 1 day of the week and we rotate weekends. We both split the cost of activities and needs of the children and we have unified household rules that apply in both households.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You are already at the point of separation and D with this schedule. The formality of paperwork to complete it needs to be initiated by you. Maybe down the road you two can think about dating again. Maybe you will find another. Go file. Be free of the drama.


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## straightshooter

JBTX said:


> I know. I should divorce her. It's so hard and I don't want to force an ultimatum in doing so.
> 
> I'm so not ready to find another woman. A loyal woman sounds so wonderful. I'm just not ready to drag an innocent new woman into a relationship with me and my baggage. I have to go deal with my crap before I can do that with another person.
> 
> I am going to start some projects like a lift kit for my jeep and learning to tape and bed drywall.
> 
> *It appears in reality that I am the real Fence Sitter,* as another poster commented. I'm a little embarrassed. I am going to sleep now. And I'm going to try to have a fresh head in the morning to address this topic in my head tomorrow.
> 
> Thank you all.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You got that right. You are not only fence sitting. If I read it correctly, you let her bull doze you into not contacting the wife of I hope your FORMER friend. So basically, you really have no idea if they are still in contact other than what she says.

And by the way, while this separation continues and you are still sharing expenses with her, you really think she is going to live like a nun for too long. ??? So not only did she cheat once, you will have no clue if she is having sex with other men, again other than what she tells you.

there is no limbo here. There is denial, and refusal to act on your part. this has nothing to do with you finding another woman. It has to do with you ceasing to be a patsy and allowing her to use you for partial support and have the freedom to do whatever she wants.

Hope you can get your head together and stop sitting around.


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## JBTX

straightshooter said:


> You got that right. You are not only fence sitting. If I read it correctly, you let her bull doze you into not contacting the wife of I hope your FORMER friend. So basically, you really have no idea if they are still in contact other than what she says.
> 
> 
> 
> And by the way, while this separation continues and you are still sharing expenses with her, you really think she is going to live like a nun for too long. ??? So not only did she cheat once, you will have no clue if she is having sex with other men, again other than what she tells you.
> 
> 
> 
> there is no limbo here. There is denial, and refusal to act on your part. this has nothing to do with you finding another woman. It has to do with you ceasing to be a patsy and allowing her to use you for partial support and have the freedom to do whatever she wants.
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you can get your head together and stop sitting around.




No. She didn't convince me to not call his wife, she thought I should have let them end it.(I see how this was confusing)
I called the wife of the OM, while my wife screamed in horror. I could hear the OM whimpering in the background as his wife started confronting him. I sent the OM's wife screenshots. 


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## 3Xnocharm

Make the decision FOR her and file. Do you really want to be with someone who would cheat on you with one of your best friends?? Hell, not just that, but her BEST FRIEND'S HUSBAND! Talk about lowest of the low! Is this really the kind of person you want by your side for the next 40 years of your life?


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## 3Xnocharm

JBTX said:


> No. She didn't convince me to not call his wife, she thought I should have let them end it.(I see how this was confusing)
> I called the wife of the OM, while my wife screamed in horror. I could hear the OM whimpering in the background as his wife started confronting him. I sent the OM's wife screenshots.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for you!


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## Marc878

You're like many who go through thus. You've put yourself in limbo because you can't act.

If you don't plot a course of action you'll just linger.

No one is going to fix this for you. It's up to you and what you want your life and future to be.

You can waste years of your life you can't get back in these things.

Write down the pros and cons on paper. It'll probably enlighten you.


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## WasDecimated

3Xnocharm said:


> Make the decision FOR her and file. Do you really want to be with someone who would cheat on you with one of your best friends?? Hell, not just that, but her BEST FRIEND'S HUSBAND! Talk about lowest of the low! Is this really the kind of person you want by your side for the next 40 years of your life?


These are the only questions you need to ask yourself right now. :iagree:

If you just met this woman and this mess was part of her recent history, would you even date her? No, of course not. If you had a good friend (not the POS that was screwing your wife) that was in your situation, what advice would you give him? The first step to moving forward is leaving her behind. You can't grow as a person if you stay in this situation....she'll keep you down. You'll never meet someone better as long as you're with her either. Distance and time will be your best friends.

Its a tough situation you're in right now. It sucks, I know. It'll only get better if you man-up and take decisive action now. You make the decision, not her. She doesn't deserve to make those decisions for you anymore. Remember, you are behind the steering wheel of your own life. The sooner you file, the sooner it'll be over and you can put it behind you and start living again. I was where you are too as well as most folks here on these forums. Take the advice that you've been given. It's been forged through experience, pain and mistakes. 

You don't want to be with a woman that would cheat on you and her best friend with your (so called) best friend. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. It'll happen again down the road...guaranteed. What kind of future is that? Let it be hers, not yours.


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## curious234

why do not you inform the army authorities to drive another nail


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## eric1

Look how effective you were when you were being decisive and true to your moral compass.

Do not lose that. So so so many people here struggle because the like making excuses. You didn't at first but now are.


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## JBTX

A little follow up to my original post. Asked her if she wanted a divorce, she said no, but she isn't coming back either. One week later I got her to admit she did want divorce. So we sat down one evening wrote it out, then we filed and she responded at the same time (she wasn't served). Equal custody rights to the children (and they must remain in in this county or a surrounding county), no child support (sharing expenses), nobody's trying to take each other to the cleaners, property was divided in a reasonable manner with no drama and the only thing I am doing besides keeping my personal assets is paying off a small loan that I am cosigned with her on for my own protection and to lower her monthly living expenses. We even shared the filing/court costs. She asked for monthly spousal support, but I said no. 

Very civil. 


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## 3Xnocharm

Wow, thats an awesome update, congrats on this going smoothly!


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## JBTX

3Xnocharm said:


> Wow, thats an awesome update, congrats on this going smoothly!




Thank you. I feel very blessed, even though it's not what I wanted. It's really a shame that we can do this without derailing into anger and a crazy cycle, but can't workout our marriage. Even the clerk said "y'all get along really great" and asked if we were sure before she stamped our papers "FILED". 

Even so, she wants to go, she isn't being a crazy person and she doesn't try to threaten me, so I felt the best thing to do was cut her loose as much as possible and asap. Better this than sitting around for months or even years until one of us "finds someone" and now is pressing the other for a divorce to satisfy their new someone... 


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## Marc878

Sorry but she already found another. Good you let her go


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## JBTX

Marc878 said:


> Sorry but she already found another. Good you let her go




She could. Whatever. 

I have a 4 1/2 year plan to be COMPLETELY debt free, my first brand new car, replaced all my old major appliances in my kitchen with cash, lost 5 pounds and I'm about to paint my home interior, after some dry wall work. All this since she left. 

I'm staying away from forming any type of relationship for a long time. Probably a year or better. And that's really hard, because there is a early 30s woman where I work, has no kids, shares a lot of the core values that I do and to top it off is very pretty, not to mention the fact that I can tell she likes me and always has a little bit. It would be tempting to try to scoop her up before somebody else does, but I'm not going to drag a woman like into being a rebound girl. If she still around later on, maybe we can do lunch. 


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## chillymorn69

Nice update. 

I'd ask the girl at work out just take it slow!

Not many good women out there without bagage .


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## aine

Tatsuhiko said:


> I love your newfound attitude and your newfound strength. Don't let her reel you back in just to watch her sit on the fence.
> 
> If I were you, I'd go ahead and file for divorce, at least to let the reality set in for both of you. You can stop the process at any point if you think there's a chance for reconciliation. But honestly, I'm not so impressed with your wife's attitude. She doesn't seem remorseful at all, and this is a precondition to reconciliation. She might be looking more attractive to you, but when I look around me I see 100 attractive women every day. Most of them are not cheaters.


This is spot on advice, reconciliation is not a good idea here, she is not remorseful at all. File for divorce and move on for yourself.


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## Marc878

JBTX said:


> She could. Whatever.
> 
> I have a 4 1/2 year plan to be COMPLETELY debt free, my first brand new car, replaced all my old major appliances in my kitchen with cash, lost 5 pounds and I'm about to paint my home interior, after some dry wall work. All this since she left.
> 
> I'm staying away from forming any type of relationship for a long time. Probably a year or better. And that's really hard, because there is a early 30s woman where I work, has no kids, shares a lot of the core values that I do and to top it off is very pretty, not to mention the fact that I can tell she likes me and always has a little bit. It would be tempting to try to scoop her up before somebody else does, but I'm not going to drag a woman like into being a rebound girl. If she still around later on, maybe we can do lunch.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Smart plan. Learning to live alone will make a more rounded and better man out of you plus you'll find it has some great benefits. Simpler, easier once you get the knack it's great


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## Marc878

Read up in your spare time. It's a short good read

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## JBTX

Marc878 said:


> Read up in your spare time. It's a short good read
> 
> 
> 
> https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf




Thanks, Bro!! Reading the introduction, I see some of those traits and me and others not so much. I'm definitely going to read through this. I really don't want to sacrifice The things that I need for my personal wellness in the future. I think this book or article could point me in that direction.

Thank you. 


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## Marc878

YW.

Strength is a mindset. You don't have to be 6'5" muscled and weigh 250.

You can be a good person but at the same time not take any **** from anyone.

I'm not a particularly big guy. 6'2" 190, I have a good sense of humor and get along well with most but I have strong boundaries and lines I don't let anyone cross. If they do I react immediately. I don't back down, veer off to the side or stop. Ever! Once people know that your life becomes a lot simpler, easier and more enjoyable to live. 

Good Retaliation ships should always be balanced @ 50/50. You do your half and expect your SO to do theirs. Always.

It's not that hard to get where you need to be but you do have to make the effort. 

Good luck to you


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## JBTX

Marc878 said:


> YW.
> 
> 
> 
> Strength is a mindset. You don't have to be 6'5" muscled and weigh 250.
> 
> 
> 
> You can be a good person but at the same time not take any **** from anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a particularly big guy. 6'2" 190, I have a good sense of humor and get along well with most but I have strong boundaries and lines I don't let anyone cross. If they do I react immediately. I don't back down, veer off to the side or stop. Ever! Once people know that your life becomes a lot simpler, easier and more enjoyable to live.
> 
> 
> 
> Good Retaliation ships should always be balanced @ 50/50. You do your half and expect your SO to do theirs. Always.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that hard to get where you need to be but you do have to make the effort.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck to you




I see what you're saying. I think I'm already trying to apply this to my life anyways. Just the other day… I received my new Apple AirPods work via FedEx (6 week backorder). When they were delivered to my office, I had left a grocery store getting myself food to eat for lunch. When I got back to the office a coworker had opened the package, paired the AirPods with his phone and was talking to his wife with them as a sort of practical joke. I cooled off and separated myself from him for a short period of time and when I returned I let him know right away that it was not OK and he should've not done that. To be honest, I don't think he realize that that was such an intrusion on me. But at the same time I let him know that it was not cool. And I did it in a manner that wasn't hostel or demeaning to him as a person. I'm just let him know boundaries. I never did this with my soon-to-be ex-wife. I really wish I had of.


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## sokillme

It's a good idea to read No More Mr. Nice Guy, I also think you should get some IC. This women abused you terribly, cheated on you in one of the worst ways possible and in the end you didn't want to divorce her until she said she wanted it. That says to me unhealthy codependency. Cheaters and abusers can smell codependency. Codependent people are like the host to their parasite. A person who will put up with their nonsense is a person who will help them facilitate it. 

If you do not break this kind of thinking in you you will continue to attract women like this. This being the idea that your picker is broken. I really think for me it's more like your lure is broken. Having poor boundaries attracts women who can exploit that but repels strong women. Strong women like assertive, decisive men as it makes them feel safe, but cheaters are scared away from men like that because they know that they won't last long, so why waste time. They operate like con-men. Make sure your actions aren't attracting the wrong type of women. You may even be attracted to the wrong type of women. 

Anyway, I admit this is all conjecture on my part but please look into that. I hear good things about this book.


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## Marc878

If you apply that attitude consistently people will learn what's acceptable behavior and what's not.

Make no mistake people will treat you as you let them.


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## Marc878

JBTX,

Your so called friend stabbed you in the back in the worst way imaginable. However, he was only taking what your STBXW gave him. You need to cut them both out of your life permantlly.

You have to coparent with your STBXW that doesnt mean you have to kiss her ass.

She will probably approach you to be friends for the kids sake. Friends are loyal, honest and trustworthy.
She's not your friend. She'll want this for her to alleviate guilt and make her look better. See we're friends so he's ok with what I've done!

For your future you need to cut off all contact except text or email kids only. Never answer a phone call from her. Let it go to voicemail. If it's not about the kids ignore and delete.

Pickups/drop offs should be a five minute exercise with zero engagement. It's not written anywhere that you have to speak with her.

Never have any shared holidays, birthdays, family time, etc. keep it all separate.

Why? So you can move on with your life. If you stay connected it will just hold you back.

When you have another relationship no woman is going to want you with an X in the mix.


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## Marc878

JBTX said:


> A little follow up to my original post. Asked her if she wanted a divorce, she said no, but she isn't coming back either. One week later I got her to admit she did want divorce. So we sat down one evening wrote it out, then we filed and she responded at the same time (she wasn't served). Equal custody rights to the children (and they must remain in in this county or a surrounding county), no child support (sharing expenses), nobody's trying to take each other to the cleaners, property was divided in a reasonable manner with no drama and the only thing I am doing besides keeping my personal assets is paying off a small loan that I am cosigned with her on for my own protection and to lower her monthly living expenses. We even shared the filing/court costs. She asked for monthly spousal support, but I said no.
> 
> Very civil.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your actions here are extremely weak. They said I'm to weak to make this decision so I want you to do it for me but I'm really hoping you'll take me back after screwing my friend behind my back. 

No More Mr Nice Guy would have filed and had her served.

Learn from this and bury Mr Nice Guy in the back yard where he belongs.

If you want to have a better life.


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## JBTX

No. We are not F***** Friends. I told her as much. Like when she said, "I'll always be your best friend.." my retort was "I'm not your f****** friend. Sorry. I'm your husband." However.... I'm not going to provoke her till this s*** is final. 


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## JBTX

Even then, no reason to provoke her. I'm seriously winning here. She is still in some type of fog. I am going to divorce her in the fog. 


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## sokillme

JBTX said:


> No. We are not F***** Friends. I told her as much. Like when she said, "I'll always be your best friend.." my retort was "I'm not your f****** friend. Sorry. I'm your husband." However.... I'm not going to provoke her till this s*** is final.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn straight, you're her husband and she was a piss poor wife and friend to her friend. Her life is going to be hard. It will be good for your kids if you can heal, work on your boundaries and assertiveness and marry a good women so you can model a good relationship for them. 

I am sorry you happened to pick a lemon. Most of us have, it's worse when it's your wife and you have kids, but you are still young. Life goes on and you will too. There is still joy out there for you. Just make sure you deal with any of these issues if that we are pointing out, if they are their. I will give you a better chance the second time. 

Life is hard dude, but it will get better.


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## JBTX

chillymorn69 said:


> Nice update.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd ask the girl at work out just take it slow!
> 
> 
> 
> Not many good women out there without bagage .




Well.... She's pretty desirable. I'll hit her up if it works out. She's wife material. No doubt. But I'm not gonna disrespect her by pursuing her in any manner until I am fully available. That's how I want to treat wife material. In fact I'm not going to date anyone and that's not potential wife material. 


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## sokillme

JBTX said:


> Well.... She's pretty desirable. I'll hit her up if it works out. She's wife material. No doubt. But I'm not gonna disrespect her by pursuing her in any manner until I am fully available. That's how I want to treat wife material. In fact I'm not going to date anyone and that's not potential wife material.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can understand waiting until you are more stable but why only "wife" material? Why not have some fun. Maybe use the dates to get a greater sense of yourself and what you like. You don't have to make any commitments. You act like dating is in some way leading the date on. Besides all that you have no idea a women is wife material from a very shallow office relationship, that is why you date.  To get a better sense of that.


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## JBTX

sokillme said:


> Damn straight, you're her husband and she was a piss poor wife and friend to her friend. Her life is going to be hard. It will be good for your kids if you can heal, work on your boundaries and assertiveness and marry a good women so you can model a good relationship for them.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry you happened to pick a lemon. Most of us have, it's worse when it's your wife and you have kids, but you are still young. Life goes on and you will too. There is still joy out there for you. Just make sure you deal with any of these issues if that we are pointing out, if they are their. I will give you a better chance the second time.
> 
> 
> 
> Live is hard dude, but it will get better.




Lemons are cheap. 3 for a $1 at most grocery stores. I'm going for more than that in the future. 


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## JBTX

sokillme said:


> I can understand waiting until you are more stable but why only "wife" material? Why not have some fun. Maybe use the dates to get a greater sense of yourself and what you like. You don't have to make any commitments. You act like dating is in some way leading the date on. Besides all that you have no idea a women is wife material from a very shallow office relationship, that is why you date. To get a better sense of that.




That's a good point. I should probably explore. Perhaps the relationship in the office is shallow. But when I say the office, I work with 3500 people. Probably even more now I haven't looked at the latest HR data.... we are growing. Lots of women... a hospital. This person in particular is special though. I mean… I know a good thing when I see it… Well… Maybe I don't considering who I married before. However, the mother of my children is not a bad person. And it's not like I was the perfect husband. 

However, I know what I need to be looking for. A person that knows what commitment actually is. My wife is leaving me based on feelings. That ****ty things about feelings is they change. I need somebody that is willing to commit to work past feelings when they change. And they will. 


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## sokillme

JBTX said:


> That's a good point. I should probably explore. Perhaps the relationship in the office is shallow. But when I say the office, I work with 3500 people. Probably even more now I haven't looked at the latest HR data.... we are growing. Lots of women... a hospital. This person in particular is special though. I mean… I know a good thing when I see it… Well… Maybe I don't considering who I married before. However, the mother of my children is not a bad person. And it's not like I was the perfect husband.
> 
> However, I know what I need to be looking for. A person that knows what commitment actually is. My wife is leaving me based on feelings. That ****ty things about feelings is they change. I need somebody that is willing to commit to work past feelings when they change. And they will.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just to clarify I didn't mean you were shallow just that you really don't know a person from how you are in the office, this is why you date to see them in all kinds of conditions.


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## TaDor

You should NOT consider dating anyone for marriage material. There are always exceptions to the rule, but you are damaged. It typically takes a few years to heal from this sort of thing.

I'd say, hit the stripper clubs a few times. See how you handle things - but don't even do that for another week or so - at best. Cool thing, drinking and talking to a rented woman (not sex) can be helpful to some guys. Rather embarrass yourself for $50, get some new boobs to feel, than to have a meltdown on a date - especially someone from work. Personally, I'd avoid dating anyone from work.

I had fun going to the strip club (Only did it twice during my own drama with my WW) - but I got hammered, and I was hurting. First few times I tried going out - as a single guy, it hurt.

It's gonna hurt for many months... over a year.

Sorry.


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## Andy1001

You need to get out and hit the singles bars or even try some of the dating apps.Dont jump from one long relationship to another,give yourself a break.My Irish relatives have a saying that he "needs his pipes cleaned" and this applies especially to guys in your situation.
Go and have a blast and build your confidence and self esteem up,then date the girl in the office.You may not want to by then though.A single,decent guy has a lot to offer and a lot of women would be very happy to have you in their lives.


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## ABHale

JBTX said:


> Well.... She's pretty desirable. I'll hit her up if it works out. She's wife material. No doubt. But I'm not gonna disrespect her by pursuing her in any manner until I am fully available. That's how I want to treat wife material. In fact I'm not going to date anyone and that's not potential wife material.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just be friends for now. No need to date. Just grab lunch and go from there. Talk with her and it it starts to get serious be honest with her. Tell her you are not wanting her to be rebound relationship. That you want to be friends for now. If things go from there in six months to a year great, if not you still want her as a friend.


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## PreRaph

JBTX said:


> Even then, no reason to provoke her. I'm seriously winning here. She is still in some type of fog. I am going to divorce her in the fog.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly. You just simply keep to the 180. You deal with her in a civil way, talk only about business, and do not engage in any kind of blame or recrimination, especially if she starts it. You have a goal: finalize the divorce. After that, she can live her life however she wants. She's not your concern anymore.

Keep it up.


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## JBTX

Now I've got a new problem on my hands. Very nice woman I work with (same company, different locations) giving me signals that she's available. She knows my stbxw and I spit. I'm not going to avoid her, but I'm not going after her either. I'm gonna let things just simmer a bit. Don't think I'm in any condition to date. I'm still technically married after all. It is nice to know that I can still get attention from women (maybe more now than when I was much younger. That's what I'm really trying to say. It's not a problem at all. I'm feeling flattered 


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## Marc878

You're about to find out how much of a demand a good guy has.

Get a big stick cause you'll have to fight them off.

Hard 180!!!!!'


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## JBTX

I'm also making new circles of friends. I friend of mine introduced me to a group of his friends who are definitely motorheads and I love cars. Very much dudes that like working on cars and bikes more than long term relationships. Nice because I don't want to have that pressure of impressing women and I'm not going to have to hanging out with a bunch of motorheads. 

I met a guy tonight who is the father of one of my daughters best friends. He's coming out for burgers tomorrow. He's single and military and I'd suspect would be a lot of fun to chill with. 

Got invited to a for Friday beers by some people who work in another location that is part of the company I work for. All in leadership rolls, but seem like fun. 

All of these sound like really good opportunities with a variety of different types of people. I really need to get out there more. We got stuck in a rut when she was in school and that took up so much of our time and that we lost a lot of our friends. Most of them moved off. 

I'm pretty excited. 

I will make sure to gather a large stick. 


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## Marc878

Get a jaguar convertible. It does attract a lot of women but there's only room for one!!!

So you just get the pick of the litter and leave.


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## Marc878

And you thought this was gonna be hard?

Nobody loves me boohoo. 

See!!!


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## JBTX

Marc878 said:


> Get a jaguar convertible. It does attract a lot of women but there's only room for one!!!
> 
> So you just get the pick of the litter and leave.




Nah. I like station wagons. That's my thing. Next month I'm going to throw my two daughters and the two nieces from my STBXW's side in my Sportwagen and take a 2,200 miles road trip. But I do have a 98 Jeep Wrangler that's my toy. I also have a ford tractor I use to maintain my property. But what I really need is mini dune buggy. Unfortunately I had to spend my dune buggy money on new appliances and fixing up my home so it is more comfortable to be in. 

If I was going to get a two seater, it would be a Factory-Five 818 kit car. 


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## 3Xnocharm

Marc878 said:


> Get a jaguar convertible. It does attract a lot of women but there's only room for one!!!
> 
> So you just get the pick of the litter and leave.


Yuck, no! Pickup truck! :smthumbup:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

3Xnocharm said:


> Yuck, no! Pickup truck! :smthumbup:


So funny! 
My wife told me about her prom. Her date had a successful older brother who loaned him his jaguar convertible for the event. 

My wife, who had no interest in cars didn't know what a jag was. As he walked her out to the curb, she was a little disappointed and said bluntly "what happened to your truck?"

He was simultaneously baffled and crushed.


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## JBTX

3Xnocharm said:


> Yuck, no! Pickup truck! :smthumbup:




I really want a truck. tbh...


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## TaDor

More in the the back of a pickup truck to do the nasty...


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## dubsey

JBTX said:


> If I was going to get a two seater, it would be a Factory-Five 818 kit car.


I have their roadster. I want the 818 very badly, but just don't have the time right now.


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## JBTX

Had a really good time hanging out with another single dad and our girls tonight. Chilled out. Cooked out. Girls swam in the pool I got setup. We had a lot of fun. 

Pretty damn fun for a Thursday!


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## turnera

JBTX said:


> I see what you're saying. I think I'm already trying to apply this to my life anyways. Just the other day… I received my new Apple AirPods work via FedEx (6 week backorder). When they were delivered to my office, I had left a grocery store getting myself food to eat for lunch. When I got back to the office a coworker had opened the package, paired the AirPods with his phone and was talking to his wife with them as a sort of practical joke. I cooled off and separated myself from him for a short period of time and when I returned I let him know right away that it was not OK and he should've not done that. To be honest, I don't think he realize that that was such an intrusion on me. But at the same time I let him know that it was not cool. And I did it in a manner that wasn't hostel or demeaning to him as a person. I'm just let him know boundaries. I never did this with my soon-to-be ex-wife. I really wish I had of.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haven't covered the whole thread, but I hope you've realized by now that confrontations with friends and coworkers are MUCH easier than confrontations with a woman you expect to be vulnerable with.


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## turnera

JBTX said:


> Now I've got a new problem on my hands. Very nice woman I work with (same company, different locations) giving me signals that she's available. She knows my stbxw and I spit. I'm not going to avoid her, but I'm not going after her either. I'm gonna let things just simmer a bit. Don't think I'm in any condition to date. I'm still technically married after all.


You have NO BUSINESS hanging around with other women until you are officially divorced. Anything you do before being officially divorced makes YOU look bad.

And will end in disaster.


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## JBTX

turnera said:


> You have NO BUSINESS hanging around with other women until you are officially divorced. Anything you do before being officially divorced makes YOU look bad.
> 
> 
> 
> And will end in disaster.




I took a break from the forum here and I have not been trying to see anybody. I don't need to make a disaster out of anybody else's life. 

Thanks for the good advice. 


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## JBTX

Apparently my STBXW has lost one of the two friends she has. Her family and friends found out she was cheating. I also found out that there is a rumor at the school she teaches at and where my kids go to school, that I was an abusive, controlling husband and that I was having an affair... this really pisses me off, because this is the school I attended my entire life. Small school out in the country. So things blew up a little bit. Still on track to give her the divorce.


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## GuyInColorado

Meh, I started dating/screwing a day after separating. But I was in a 5 year sexless marriage, so I was gone years ago. Nothing wrong with just a physical relationship as long as you both know going in. Go have fun. A lot of women out there just want to drink and get ****ed really hard and go back home, no strings.


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## turnera

Did you set the people straight?


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## JBTX

GuyInColorado said:


> Meh, I started dating/screwing a day after separating. But I was in a 5 year sexless marriage, so I was gone years ago. Nothing wrong with just a physical relationship as long as you both know going in. Go have fun. A lot of women out there just want to drink and get ****ed really hard and go back home, no strings.




A FWB or a woman to go have fun with us all I can stand. But really, I'm just trying to keep my life together and it's working. Two weeks ahead of my bills. An actual savings account instead of a paycheck to paycheck senecio like I had with the STBXW and I lost 8lbs with no exercise. Me first. 


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## JBTX

turnera said:


> Did you set the people straight?




Oh I set a lot of people straight. Including her parents, sister and her two friends. Which is now one fiend, cause the other said she is done with her and was long before I contacted her. 


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## Vinnydee

You have become her security blanket. Her fall back guy in case things do not work out for her as she hopes. She tells you things to give you a glimmer of hope to keep you on the hook. I am old enough to know how this goes so decide if you want to be the her safety net or not. Even if she comes back she knows that she has the upper hand and it is doubtful that she will stop looking for your replacement. You are her safe harbor waiting for her return unless she finds another port.


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## JBTX

Vinnydee said:


> You have become her security blanket. Her fall back guy in case things do not work out for her as she hopes. She tells you things to give you a glimmer of hope to keep you on the hook. I am old enough to know how this goes so decide if you want to be the her safety net or not. Even if she comes back she knows that she has the upper hand and it is doubtful that she will stop looking for your replacement. You are her safe harbor waiting for her return unless she finds another port.




No. I'm not taking her back. I thought the grass was gray on the other side. Unfortunately for her, she kicked me into that other pasture and I realized the grass was dead on the side I just came from. I've never been more stable in my entire life. I have our children 20 days out of the month and she has them 10. I am ahead on my bills and I have actual money in my savings account for a change. I own my own home out right, and my family's lawyer say that she can't touch it (not that she would burn that bridge and try. She won't). I have a 4 1/2 year plan to be completely debt-free. all of the major appliances in my home are less than two years old. My car is brand-new. I have a pool. I have a jeep wrangler. I'm sitting in my yard right now watching the sprinklers go, drinking a beer and listening to the chirps of locusts in the trees. I've literally never been better and it's because she's gone and by her choice. She isn't trying to take me to the cleaners. I won the lotto. 

I'm not ugly either. Not hot, but cute. 


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## JBTX

Oh yeah. I live in the country. 


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## Marc878

Nice to see you finally wake up.

Feeling better now huh?


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## sokillme

JBTX said:


> Apparently my STBXW has lost one of the two friends she has. Her family and friends found out she was cheating. I also found out that there is a rumor at the school she teaches at and where my kids go to school, that I was an abusive, controlling husband and that I was having an affair... this really pisses me off, because this is the school I attended my entire life. Small school out in the country. So things blew up a little bit. Still on track to give her the divorce.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Man you should nip that in the bud just like you did the affair with your friend. Hell I would tell her to correct the rumor or you are going to tell everyone. Don't let anyone steal your honor, especially to cover such a despicable act as what your wife did. Seriously dude why are you wasting time with this person.


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## JBTX

Marc878 said:


> Nice to see you finally wake up.
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling better now huh?




Much better. With the exception of how this will impact the children now and later, this is a good thing. 


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