# Rape in marriage (potential triggers)



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I'm starting this to avoid derailing another thread. There a woman was asking about reconciling after her husband raped her (possibly multiple times). To me, rape is so far off the curve of acceptable behavior that reconciliation is utterly out of the question no matter what. I was surprised though that some posters considered it something she should discuss with him. 

Do people feel rape is ever forgivable? (here I talking about a case where there is no question that the victim is not consenting and the attacker knew that). (also I consider rape by either gender of either gender equivalent) 

To me rape is far far worse than infidelity, but maybe others don't see it that way? Has anyone ever reconciled with someone who raped them and ha the marriage then work?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Do people feel rape is ever forgivable?


No.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

I think rape is one of most vile and disgusting things someone can do to another human being. In the case you're referring to it was done repeatedly year after year with her crying, kicking, and screaming for him to stop. In all honesty that guy should be 6 feet under by now. No, in my opinion rape is not forgivable.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Thankfully I’ve never been in this situation. But, I would not reconcile with a man who raped me. I might be able to forgive someday, because I believe with true remorse and effort to change a person can deserve forgiveness. I was the victim of an attempted rape many years ago at age 14. That man showed neither remorse nor a desire to change so I didn’t work to forgive him. When he died recently of a drug overdose I won’t say I rejoiced, but I felt no sorrow either. I can’t fathom how I would feel if it were my husband, who is supposed to love and cherish me, who violated me in such an ugly way. I do know I couldn’t stay with him though.


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## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

I would hate and be repulsed by a man who raped me or wouldn't stop when he knew I was not happy.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

When it's your spouse, whom you love, it can be difficult to just break away. Is it a fantasy of theirs? Did she think I wanted it even though I said no? Will it happen again? What kind of physical violence was involved? 

It messes with your head. You have no answers and are afraid/embarrassed to talk about it. You just want it to go away. You want to forget about it and chalk it up to something that just happened once due to something you may have caused. It's easier to take that way. 

How could I love someone who would do this? How can she feel like this, this kind of thing is loving? Maybe she is into this kink, but we never talked about it? 

So many questions and no good answers. Even talk would end in denial and acceptance. The issue doesn't go away, though. It hides until you are out on a date with someone and can't seem to bring yourself to kiss them or touch them in a sexual way. You can't understand why. You think, "I should be aroused. I should want her. What's wrong with me"? 

It's pretty messed up. And, if you are a man raped by a woman, it isn't taken very seriously. Oh, they believe it happened, but can't wrap their mind around why it wasn't a fantasy fulfilled.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Rape is so far way out there wrong, horrible, I'd say no.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

People are complex. When someone who you have been involved with for years and whom you love hurts you, it is very often worked through if possible.

The person you are referring to hasn't really known anything else besides sexual abuse and didn't know any differently until coming to TAM.

I know a lot of people who have endured abuse from their mate and continued in the relationship.

I take a lot more crap from Mrs. Conan than I ever would from anyone else and likewise.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Look, if I had my way that sob would be in prison with a cellmate named Big Bubba who just loves men. 

But, she isn't going anywhere so the least she can do is discuss the matter with him while he is sober and, hopefully, advise him that should he try that again that she will call the police.

Maybe you should be the one to acquaint yourself with her prior posts. And, starting this thread to talk about another member is chicken-****.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I was trying not to derail the original thread and was also hoping for a general answer, not one specific to that situation. I was just astonished that anyone would ever recommend reconciling with a rapist. I understand that an abused victim might not recognize the situation that they were in, but had expected an universal recommendation that she seek help in escaping. Apparently not everyone views rape as utterly unforgivable. That surprised me. I'll drop it now as a problem that I cannot help. 





Blondilocks said:


> Look, if I had my way that sob would be in prison with a cellmate named Big Bubba who just loves men.
> 
> But, she isn't going anywhere so the least she can do is discuss the matter with him while he is sober and, hopefully, advise him that should he try that again that she will call the police.
> 
> Maybe you should be the one to acquaint yourself with her prior posts. And, starting this thread to talk about another member is chicken-****.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

uhtred said:


> I was trying not to derail the original thread and was also hoping for a general answer, not one specific to that situation. I was just astonished that anyone would ever recommend reconciling with a rapist. I understand that an abused victim might not recognize the situation that they were in, but had expected an universal recommendation that she seek help in escaping. Apparently not everyone views rape as utterly unforgivable. That surprised me. I'll drop it now as a problem that I cannot help.


It’s actually very common and part of why the vast majority of sexual assaults go unreported. 

There are many other reasons, with a common thread of shame and total apathy from the Justice system and the public in general. 

This **** is not broadly understood.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Marital rape can be very insidious. The pattern often starts out in a very minor way and increases in a gradual, subtle way over time. And along the way it causes some very harmful effects to the victim. With repeated violence like this, the victim is so traumatized that they cannot act.

People who counsel victims of marital abuse (to include repeated rape) know that most victims of serious abuse will take time to realize the extent of the abuse, to learn how to stand up to it, and how to get out of it. In the interim all the counselor can do is keep trying to educate the victim and help them get to the point that they recognize that they are indeed abused and need to leave the situation.

We can post hundreds of pages telling a victim of abuse what we all know... that they need to get out of there ASAP. But until her head is in the right place, we cannot make her do anything. It's often better to give her tools so she can read and learn and eventually come to terms with the severity of her situation.

Also, in some cases there are people who are from cultures where marital rape is not a crime and completely accepted as long as there is no permanent physical damage. We have a lot of subcultures in the US that have this attitude. When a couple is from this sort of culture, both might actually not realize that what's going on is considered rape in the US, (or the country where they now live). 

Until about the 1970's almost no country had laws against marital rape. Sex, even forced sex (aka rape), was considered a husband's right. The argument was, and still is in some countries that, "it is impossible to steal something you already 'own', and a husband 'owns' his wife in marriage."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_laws_by_country


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

uhtred said:


> I was trying not to derail the original thread and was also hoping for a general answer, not one specific to that situation. I was just astonished that anyone would ever recommend reconciling with a rapist. I understand that an abused victim might not recognize the situation that they were in, but had expected an universal recommendation that she seek help in escaping. Apparently not everyone views rape as utterly unforgivable. That surprised me. I'll drop it now as a problem that I cannot help.


I think that the topic of this thread is an important one. But the reference to the other thread should be removed. If you do that, I'll leave the thread.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Look, if I had my way that sob would be in prison with a cellmate named Big Bubba who just loves men.
> 
> But, she isn't going anywhere so the least she can do is discuss the matter with him while he is sober and, hopefully, advise him that should he try that again that she will call the police.


I wouldn't warn him. It could escalate. He knows what he's doing is wrong. She should call 911 immediately afterwards. He should be asleep quickly and won't stop her. The police will wake him up.

I agree that she isn't going anywhere as of yet, but I think being on TAM is helping to open her eyes. I understand you want to help her deal with her situation where she has no intention of throwing her life away, as she put it. I agree that coming at it from all angles is a good strategy to help her.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Marital rape can be very insidious. The pattern often starts out in a very minor way and increases in a gradual, subtle way over time. And along the way it causes some vey harmful effects in the victim. With repeated violence like this, the victim is so traumatized that they cannot act.
> 
> People who counsel victims of marital abuse (to include repeated rape) know that most victims of serious abuse will take time to realize the extent of the abuse, to learn how to stand up to it, and how to get out of it. In the interim all the counselor can to is keep trying to educate the victim and help them get to the point that they recognize that they are indeed abused and need to leave the situation.
> 
> ...


Totally agree and to take it one step further: sexual assaults are ultimately about power, not sex. 

The person assaulted needs to regain their power and agency, so it’s critical to ensure that encouragement isn’t perceived as being told what to do - this can make it much worse. 

It was the first thing I learned after my wife’s assault, and holy **** was it hard to not act when she didn’t want something to happen - namely beating the **** out of the guy. But I had to let her be 100% on control.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cynthia said:


> I wouldn't warn him. It could escalate. He knows what he's doing is wrong. She should call 911 immediately afterwards. He should be asleep quickly and won't stop her. The police will wake him up.
> 
> I agree that she isn't going anywhere as of yet, but I think being on TAM is helping to open her eyes. I understand you want to help her deal with her situation where she has no intention of throwing her life away, as she put it. I agree that coming at it from all angles is a good strategy to help her.


My advice would be to pack a go bag for her and the kids, have a safe place to run to, and just leave with no warning. Then involve the police - that will most likely not do anything of real value. She needs to seek safe haven. 

As far as charges, etc, only something like 3% lead to charges, and if it does make it to court it’s going to be he said vs she said, therefore beyond reasonable guilt doesn’t work and he will walk free with the ability to say “I was found not guilty, so I didn’t do it.” Unless he confesses, of course, which is unlikely. I hope she still reports it, but I would also caution her to expect the justice system to provide either justice or safety from him. Only something like 10% of charges for sexual assaults lead to convictions in court. 

Her family may support her, but his family most likely won’t, and neither will her friends in all likelihood long term. She will essentially have to do this on her own with her only real support coming from therapists and support groups, unfortunately. 

We need to support her however we can, without taking away her agency. It is not going to be an easy road.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

The reason I suggested after it happens again is that she may be angry enough to actually call.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cynthia said:


> The reason I suggested after it happens again is that she may be angry enough to actually call.


She might be. But I do agree that if she can get out of there first, and then call it would be best.

I've read of some studies that say that one of the reasons that victims of serious abuse don't act is that over time their bodies get a trigger reaction to protect themselves.... their brain will produce large amounts of oxytocin and other feel-good hormones to numb the negative effects of the abuse. Oxytocin causes a person to see things through rose colored glasses basically.

So when the victim is abused they have a negative reaction to the abuse, but the body is producing bucket loads of Oxytocin, the very hormone that makes them bind to their abuse and see them in a very loving light. It sets up the confusion in the victim that we often see.

Research has found that a child who grew up in an abusive home will have a trigger reaction to abuse as an adult. Their body is even more finely tuned to over produce oxytocin and other feel-good hormones when they are abused as adults.

It's sort of like popping feel-good drugs when things are going very badly.


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## .339971 (Sep 12, 2019)

No. Rape wouldn't ever be forgivable.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

Try co-parenting with an ex-husband that you divorced for this and other awful reasons. As far as cultural attitudes, the ex is from a progressive Western European nation. His family didn't believe that rape could exist within marriage. This attitude can occur in any culture.

Just to clarify, I'm talking abut a friend of mine.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Agreed; "rape" is a violation of decency and morals and so many other ways to consider it totally reprehensible.

And yet, some years back, my wife tells me that sex was so unsatisfying to her, that meeting my "needs" made her feel like she was being raped. Without ever having told me she felt that way. She simply thought that, if she didn't like sex, but felt it was a requirement for marriage, it was ok to think she was being raped. 

O.M.G.

You can think something like that without telling your spouse???!!! An unwanted advance in marriage = rape? I get that saying no means no. I've never crossed that line. But what happens if you're thinking "responsive" sex, you need to get her in the mood, and she pretends to go along. She wasn't in the mood, but kept that to herself. 

I never, ever, thought I would feel comfortable telling this story. She told me this as we were emerging from that first 28 years or whatever in which intimacy was a struggle (which it still is, but then it was something that she felt 100% OK with, the idea that marriage without sex would be idea, marriage with sex a couple times a month would be fine though).

So. Long-time liberal guy here, wants to believe that white male privilege is something I always have to be aware of. And my wife says something like that. Don't get me wrong; I am *so* thankful she finally spoke up. Living with something like that behind the scenes is shocking, frightening, rocks me to the core. I have to own some of her feeling. I have to respect it, because you cannot hear your wife use that word, about you, and not have a strong & fearful reaction.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Thanks for sharing, I know it took courage to do.

And here's the catch 22, from either spouse really. 

When someone says yes, let's, but later says they didn't really want to, yet at the time said they said did want to, and demonstrated yes in whatever fashion. 

Huh.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Casual Observer

That's extremely sad and unfair to you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> When someone says yes, let's, but later says they didn't really want to, yet at the time said they said did want to, and demonstrated yes in whatever fashion.
> 
> Huh.


However, the type of situation that this thread is about is one I which the woman tries to fight him off, who cries, screams, etc


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> Agreed; "rape" is a violation of decency and morals and so many other ways to consider it totally reprehensible.
> 
> And yet, some years back, my wife tells me that sex was so unsatisfying to her, that meeting my "needs" made her feel like she was being raped. Without ever having told me she felt that way. She simply thought that, if she didn't like sex, but felt it was a requirement for marriage, it was ok to think she was being raped.
> 
> ...


I’m so sorry man. I’ve heard all that and much worse as my wife processed her trauma, and I know how painful that is to hear and to contemplate.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> Agreed; "rape" is a violation of decency and morals and so many other ways to consider it totally reprehensible.
> 
> And yet, some years back, my wife tells me that sex was so unsatisfying to her, that meeting my "needs" made her feel like she was being raped. Without ever having told me she felt that way. She simply thought that, if she didn't like sex, but felt it was a requirement for marriage, it was ok to think she was being raped.
> 
> ...


 @EleGirl 

Yep, I was only referring to this post.

🙄


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> Agreed; "rape" is a violation of decency and morals and so many other ways to consider it totally reprehensible.
> 
> And yet, some years back, my wife tells me that sex was so unsatisfying to her, that meeting my "needs" made her feel like she was being raped. Without ever having told me she felt that way. She simply thought that, if she didn't like sex, but felt it was a requirement for marriage, it was ok to think she was being raped.
> 
> ...


I can't even imagine how horrible that must have been for you. I'm glad things are better now, but it must have taken a lot of work on your part to get over her using that word against you. :smile2:


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Thanks for sharing, I know it took courage to do.
> 
> And here's the catch 22, from either spouse really.
> 
> ...


But when is "giving in" because it's easier a sign of coercion on my part? I don't think this is 100% cut & dry. I don't think it's rape, but there's something going on that I have to take some responsibility for. 



EleGirl said:


> @Casual Observer
> 
> That's extremely sad and unfair to you.


Thank you. I'd forgotten about it until this thread triggered me. 



Marduk said:


> I’m so sorry man. I’ve heard all that and much worse as my wife processed her trauma, and I know how painful that is to hear and to contemplate.


Life is... complicated. I still believe I can, no, we can, come through this in one piece. I still hope that identification of issues is a step towards solutions. It's very easy to think, the more issues identified, the worse things are.



notmyjamie said:


> I can't even imagine how horrible that must have been for you. I'm glad things are better now, but it must have taken a lot of work on your part to get over her using that word against you. :smile2:


It did kind of shake me up. A lot.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> However, the type of situation that this thread is about is one I which the woman tries to fight him off, who cries, screams, etc


So I didn't just hijack the thread did I? I was thinking this was OT, perhaps especially so because a thread about potential triggers and rape... triggered me. I'm not offended if otherwise. Thanks.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> Life is... complicated. I still believe I can, no, we can, come through this in one piece. I still hope that identification of issues is a step towards solutions. It's very easy to think, the more issues identified, the worse things are.


My only answer is that I got through it because I had to. 

She told me I was just like the guy that assaulted her. That all men were the same. That every time I touched her I was doing the exact same thing that the guy that assaulted her did. 

I got called names, I got stuff thrown at me, she would threaten to leave me over and over. 

And then she’d break down in tears, begging me to leave her because she couldn’t protect me from the pain of her trauma. 

Now, I know I wasn’t that kind of guy. But I did second guess myself, many times. Many dark days did I examine my own thinking about women and sexuality and entitlement and privilege. Many dark times I indeed thought I was a piece of ****. But I couldn’t let myself dwell there, because if I did, I couldn’t help my wife. 

We got through it because we had to. Together. I hope you do, too. 

There’s some trauma behind those words. I virtually guarantee it. But it probably has little to do with you.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think there can be situations where someone feels raped, but their partner honestly is not aware of what happened. This may not be anyone's fault but can be horrible for all involved. 

As far as this thread on reconciling, I think it can be OK to forgive and reconcile with someone who honestly didn't realize that they were causing harm. That of course doesn't apply if they were told to stop at the time. 





Casual Observer said:


> So I didn't just hijack the thread did I? I was thinking this was OT, perhaps especially so because a thread about potential triggers and rape... triggered me. I'm not offended if otherwise. Thanks.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I think like a lot of things it needs to be left to the person victimized personally. My concern However is that victimology is a complex. Victims of domestic abuse sometimes have trouble recognizing their own abuse or it’s effect on them. It’s certainly illegal, an assault, and a form of abuse. Is the victim in a place when they can really make a choice?


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

So, I have 2 situations that I would like to bring up to see how others think about them.

1. My exH. The first night we met (LD/LT relationship), he had been awake for close to 48 hours. He fell asleep in my bed, and about 3 hours after he fell asleep, I woke up to him having sex with me. He was completely asleep for it and I just rolled over and quietly cried until he finished. It was later discussed at length.

2. Same man....many years later. We were in a huge fight and a neighbour called the police. The police took him away to give us space and took him to my mothers. He was awake for about 40 hours, came back into my home since he legally could, crawled into bed with me while I was sleeping, and about 2 hours later did the same thing. I woke up to him once again completely asleep and having sex with me.

Do people think he raped me, or do they think he suffers from a sleeping disorder? 

If he has a sleeping disorder, should that negate his behaviours?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Has there been any sign of abusive behavior when he is not sleep deprived? You describe a "huge fight" - was it due to some sort of bad behavior on his part or just sort of random. 

Has he acted in other dangerous, or out of control ways when sleep deprived? Can he be woken up when that happens? 

Are you sure he was asleep, when those attacks happened? 

I don't know if there are people who commit violence when asleep, but it sounds like a dangerous situation. Has he seen a health professional?


IMHO, if he was truly asleep and unaware of his behavior then it isn't rape in the normal sense, but could be viewed as a dangerous mental illness and he should seek medical help immediately Depending on what they find, you can go from there. 







a_new_me said:


> So, I have 2 situations that I would like to bring up to see how others think about them.
> 
> 1. My exH. The first night we met (LD/LT relationship), he had been awake for close to 48 hours. He fell asleep in my bed, and about 3 hours after he fell asleep, I woke up to him having sex with me. He was completely asleep for it and I just rolled over and quietly cried until he finished. It was later discussed at length.
> 
> ...


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> Life is... complicated.


That's for sure. 

I am a marriage counselor - this kind of thing is part of what I do for a living. 
It doesn't seem to help for a counselor (or TAM commenter) to tell someone what they "must" do. If the story makes me angry, I have to not try to infect the victim with _my_ anger. 

Everyone's story that they tell, is from their point of view. Memory is not like a video recording. 

The victim often has a poor understanding of the seriousness of what is happening, but often has a good understanding of what steps would be safe or unsafe for them to take. I'm not going to say "you need to say xxx to him", I'm going to ask "if you said xxx to him, what do you think might happen?" 



> But when is "giving in" because it's easier a sign of coercion on my part?


That depends on her previous experience of how you behave when she says "no" to you.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

a_new_me said:


> 1. My exH. The first night we met (LD/LT relationship), he had been awake for close to 48 hours. He fell asleep in my bed, and about 3 hours after he fell asleep, I woke up to him having sex with me. He was completely asleep for it and I just rolled over and quietly cried until he finished. It was later discussed at length.


I am not a lawyer and can't comment on whether that is legally rape or not. It doesn't sound like an intentional act, the way you tell it. 

I'd want to know how that discussion at length went.


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Has there been any sign of abusive behavior when he is not sleep deprived? You describe a "huge fight" - was it due to some sort of bad behavior on his part or just sort of random.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, he was very abusive. He was always sleep deprived, and it was always my fault or the kids fault. It took me pushing him towards counselling for many years because of that, as well as other things, for him to go to counselling and having a Counseller challenge him to see a doctor to “prove me wrong”, only to find out that he does in fact have a sleep disorder. I really enjoyed saying ‘I told you so’ at that moment of time 

The big fight was just a pattern we fell into.
We were bickerers. As time passed, I tolerated less and less of the way he treated me and our children, so things progressed and got louder and louder as he refused to leave. I ended up finding another home and the children and I left him, alone in an empty house. 

His issue is that he does not fall into a deep enough sleep, so his body never receives the time it needs to refresh. This always left him in an abusive state. Tired. Cranky. Mean. Stubborn. Critical. Aggressive.
The term walking on egg shells was never applicable. Life could more be described as walking through a minefield of thumbtacks followed up with legos for dessert.
I think that in the nearly 20 years I have known this man, he has probably been so exhausted to the point where he falls into a deep sleep 10 times. I don’t know how he does it. I need 10 hours to function. He can do it on 3 or quite often less. 

I am just happy that through everything that we have been through, that we managed to find a place where we can (after like 8 years) co-parent and I can kick him out when he starts up.

I am also happy that I have learned as much as I have about life, so I am not angry or bitter. 


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> That's for sure.
> 
> I am a marriage counselor - this kind of thing is part of what I do for a living.
> It doesn't seem to help for a counselor (or TAM commenter) to tell someone what they "must" do. If the story makes me angry, I have to not try to infect the victim with _my_ anger.
> ...


Answering your questions would end up thread jacking this discussion, so I did an @Laurentium in the thread where I'm discussing my own situation. Feel free to participate or ignore. Thanks!

And to the mods, if there's a better way to do this, please clue me in.


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> I am not a lawyer and can't comment on whether that is legally rape or not. It doesn't sound like an intentional act, the way you tell it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd want to know how that discussion at length went.




Sorry, I did not initially see this post.

The discussion at length evolved into a multi year battle of wills concerning seeking help for a sleep disorder.

Where I live, it is considered rape. I do not see it as that way because of all of the surrounding circumstances, but that is my personal experience and the effect it had on my thought process. 


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Do people feel rape is ever forgivable?


If it were my husband (and only him) against me and a one time thing I think I would forgive. If it were repeated I would smack him with the broom and put it in that place behind him.

But reality is: you never know until you are in that situation. Often things happen in a way you wont even notice things escalating (even in a way is possible that the abuser wont notice his behavior becoming more toxic as time passes. Thats not an excuse).

Now, if it were another person against me i'd rather die.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It sounds awful, and I really don't know how to think about a situation where someone has a sleep disorder that causes them to behave in a horrible way. When I say "don't know how to think about" - I mean that literally, I can't get my brain around how to think about it. I"m just sorry you were in that situation. 





a_new_me said:


> Yes, he was very abusive. He was always sleep deprived, and it was always my fault or the kids fault. It took me pushing him towards counselling for many years because of that, as well as other things, for him to go to counselling and having a Counseller challenge him to see a doctor to “prove me wrong”, only to find out that he does in fact have a sleep disorder. I really enjoyed saying ‘I told you so’ at that moment of time
> 
> The big fight was just a pattern we fell into.
> We were bickerers. As time passed, I tolerated less and less of the way he treated me and our children, so things progressed and got louder and louder as he refused to leave. I ended up finding another home and the children and I left him, alone in an empty house.
> ...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

uhtred said:


> To me rape is far far worse than infidelity, but maybe others don't see it that way? Has anyone ever reconciled with someone who raped them and ha the marriage then work?



I think both marital rape and infidelity are a grave betrayal of trust, but as with most things, it depends on the circumstances whether either can be overcome or not.


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