# going insane



## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

Hello, I met my wife 3 years ago and brought her here from another country and we got married. During this time she has been homesick and unable to make any friends. It's not that she can't communicate with others as she is very intelligent and fluent in several languages. We have had many financial and marital difficulties but slowly everything is straightening out between us. 

My wife got a job at a hotel last year, and has really been enjoying her work. Slowly she is making new friends and gaining happiness in her life. I have always been supportive and trusting of her and has been at her side through every step she has taken. All of my attention has been given to her, at the cost of my friends, family, and my business. I felt it was necessary to do this so she would not be alone and she could slowly get used to life here in the states. 

We began to hang out with her friends from the hotel a few months back and I felt real happy inside that my wife was finally making a life for herself. Right about 3 months ago, she became close friends with her supervisor (a man) and they started to get close and hanging out together alot. They held conversations together at work, on her cell phone, and via text messages. My wife shared everything with me regarding her new friendship with this man, and honestly I felt comfortable with the situation. 

Then, on 2 occasions, my wife brought this man over to our house while I was at work. Of course she called and told me about it, and the first time I was ok, but the second time, I expressed how uncomfortable I was with this, and that he can't visit her at our home while I was away. She argued with me a little bit, but then understood and stopped this. My wife and her new "friend" started hanging out alot after work with other mutual friends at the bar. Basically, I would pick up my wife in the afternoon from work bring her home, and she would go out at night with her friends. Her supervisor (the new "friend") would pick her up at night from our home, and bring her back late at night. I was still ok with this as I trusted my wife and really wanted her to make friends and go out. 

Then about 2 months ago, my wife invited her new "friend" over to the house to have dinner with us. I agreed, and while we were making dinner and everyone laughing together, I caught him staring at my wife and attempting to catch her eye in a very seductive manner. When he left, I approached my wife and expressed how I was starting to get uncomfortable with her new friendship with this man. He was picking her up at night, bringing her back late, buying her lunch, dinner, and all of her drinks. I asked my wife if she suspected if this guy had feeling for her and she said no, that they were very good friends. This was around 2 months ago, and my gut feeling every since has not been good. I have been moody with everyone especially my wife since my sixth sense kept saying something was wrong. My wife kept hanging out with this guy after work, and I could tell their friendship was getting stronger and stronger. She would constantly text him on her cell phone, talk to him on the cell phone, and also on msn messenger. Even though she saw him everyday and they also went out together after work. On one occasion, during her country's independence day, she began to cry how she was homesick, and made the statement how she wished her new "friend" was there because he would understand (he is also from another country).

I began to get even moodier and kept telling my wife how uncomfortable I was with this new friendship, and her response was that there is nothing wrong, no reason to worry. About 2 weeks ago, she goes out with her other friends at night, and my sixth sense just started going crazy. The night before I had installed a keylogger on our computer (i feel terrible about this), and I was able to retrieve her password on multiple email accounts that she has. I log into her primary email account and the first email that she had received that night was from her new "friend". There were no words just a picture attachment, I open the attachment and it's a picture that the "friend" took of himself practically naked. I begin to freak out and log into her other email accounts. On one of the accounts that she uses for her job, there was a love poem from this friend and it concludes stating how much it hurts him that he can't kiss her, hold her, be with her, and finally asks if she feels the same for him. The troubling fact of this email, was that it was originally a text message that he sent to her cell phone, and she (my wife) forwarded the message to her email (for safe keeping I guess). Also there was an email she sent to him, a youtube link, and the video was about a spanish love song that basically states how the author of the song misses her true love and can't be with that person. 

My wife finally comes home that night, and I confront her about the picture that her new "friend" sent. She said what picture, and I told her exactly what I found. She acted like it was nothing, and I asked her to stop treating me as a fool, i know what the picture meant. I asked her to tell me how long has this guy had feelings for her, and she confessed by stating that he has been liking for her for several weeks now. But that basically all that has happened, and that he on only one occasion stated how he felt for her. I listened and later that night she apologized for everything. I stated to her that she is to immediately tell this "friend" that she is to be treated with respect as a married woman and in addition that I had seen the picture. 

The next day my gut feeling was not feeling right, and I logged into her email account. She deletes all of her sent messages, but there was a message from the guy stating "are you ok, how did he find the picture?". Later that day I asked my wife if she had talked to the guy and she said no. I knew she was lying by the email that she had received from him, but I said nothing. The next day I asked her (while she was at work) if she was going to talk to the guy and she said yes. She then called to tell me she was at an interview for a new job (she has been looking for a new job for awhile now). I said ok, and I received another call on my cell phone and noticed it was the guy calling me. He left a message stating how sorry he was for everything, that he made a terrible mistake and wanted to talk to me. That night I asked about my wife about the interview, and asked how did she get there without me giving her a ride. She stated that her "friend" took her there, waited outside till it was finished and then took her home. I was furious but did not say anything. The weekend passed with constant fighting between us, and me getting very emotional about what happened, about how much I loved her, and that I wanted to work this out. Her response was very cold but agreed that she also loved me and wanted to work this out. The last day of the weekend, I made the attempt to call this guy but he does not answer. I then turn around and ask my wife what day did she talk to this guy, and she stated that it was two days after the discovery (which I already knew what the truth was). I confronted her and told her that is not true, I told her about the email that he sent to her, and that she told him about the discovery the same night. She denied it even after i told her i saw her email, and gave her the time stamp. She begins to get emotional and says why does she has to pay for the mistake of others, and my response was that she had lied to me about the nature of the relationship, and she lied to me about when she communicated with him. I also told her if she loved me and wanted to work through this, she is to end the friendship.

Two days go by and the guy calls again and leaves a message saying how badly he wanted to talk to me. I finally call back, and he immediately states how sorry he was and even before I can respond to him he starts swearing to God, his unborn child (his girlfriend is pregnant) and to his parents that nothing ever happened between him and my wife. He does this for several minutes, swearing and swearing that my wife is innocent. I confront him about the love poem which he starts to deny that he every sent. I told him the exact day my wife received the poem, the time, and the exact context of the message. He states I may have sent the message but I just honestly don't remember, but I swear that your wife did not respond to it, i swear i swear i swear. I asked him when did my wife talk to him about me discovering the photo, and he uses the same time frame my wife gives me. I told him that is not true, that I saw the email that he sent to my wife the night of the discovery, and i gave him the time and email address he used to send. He admitted it, but again went back to defending my wife. 

I go home emotionally, mentally, and physically broken by this time. I don't mention the conversation I had with this man to my wife, and instead kind of keep to myself. She in the meantime still continues to text message this guy and she received text messages at weird times at night and early early in the morning. I don't get a chance to read the messages on her phone as she now carries the phone with her everywhere she goes. I then tell my wife that we need to see a marriage counselor to fix this problem and all other problems we have had in the past. That this is the last chance, and that I am at a point of leaving her. She does not respond and instead keeps quiet. The next weekend passes and she still texts this guy constantly. She then shows me her her phone and shows me her favorites list (the most frequent callers to her) and the nickname she has given to me. And right there in front of my eyes, on her list is my name, a mutual friend and his girlfriend, and my wife's "friend". We go to watch a football game that night at a restaurant and she sits in front of me texting and texting but paying some attention to me and our other guests. While we drive home she casually mentions how she texted her "friend" and teased him about the results of the football game. I again say nothing. 

Now I have began to pull away from her emotionally, my whole demeanor has changed. I am now very cold to her emotionally, and say very little. She seems to notice this and has started paying more attention to me, and keeps telling me how she loves me. I have not mentioned to her that I have seen the love poem, or that I have caught her researching another man on google. Basically this man came to the hotel and desperately was asking out my wife on a date, in which she said no. She the next day (her day off) was researching this man's company, his cell phone number (obviously the man had given it to her, as she was looking it up) and researching him on facebook. I casually found this on the web history of our computer 2 days before i found the picture of her supervisor. I say "casually" becuase I had not yet installed the key logger, and was looking up the web history to find a website that I was looking at before. 

I now have to constantly remind her to take her anti-depressants as she does not take them and keeps saying that she forgets them every day. I had her see a psychiatrist for depression several months before and had diagnosed her with depression. 

Tomorrow I will see the marriage counselor, and will give her all of the information about what has happened, four days after that both myself and my wife will see the counselor together. I am hoping that things will work out, but I feel that I need honesty. She keeps saying that I am looking deeper for something that is not there, but I honestly feel there is a much bigger picture that both her and the guy have not mentioned. I feel that she does want to stay with me and work this out, but i need her honesty. It's obvious that she had an emotional affair, but I think there is more, and I want to know so that we can work through this. 

I apologize for this super long post, and thank you for taking the time to read this. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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## Deb1234 (May 31, 2009)

First off, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I, and most people on this website, know what you're feeling and can sympathize. 

Now I have FAR from the perfect marriage but it sounds like I'm a little further along the process than you are. It also sounds to me like your wife is putting alot more effort into this relationship with her "friend" that she is with you. She may think it's unfair, but if you have told her that she needs to end this "friendship" because it is hurting you and your marriage, then she needs to do it and if she won't, well then you know where her priorities lie. 

You also need to let her know that if this is going to work at all, she and you need to be completely honest with each other with no hesitation about everything in your lives. That means if you want to check her emails or her cell phone, she gives you all the passwords and hands it over. If she has nothing to hide, then this shouldn't be a problem. My husband doesn't like it, but every once in awhile before bed, I ask him for his cell phone and he hands it over and sulks while I read through all of his texts and emails and check his surfing history.

Sit her down and talk to her about all of this and don't let her turn the conversation around to what you're doing or have done wrong! Keep in mind the big picture and I hope things work out for you!


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

Thank you for your words. It's the torture, the absolute mental torture and pain that makes my day so hard. The constant mental pictures, constantly viewing the evidence that points to a dark picture, the advice from friends that say this is a bigger picture, and that it has evolved to a pa. 

I guess I am so mentally and emotionally exhausted. The not-knowing is killing me. Also the lack of sleep, having no appetite whatsover, and now the anxiety that is getting stronger everyday. I am unable to focus on my business, and now I am 3 weeks behind schedule for projects. 

Now she is acting bubbly as if nothing happened, and always saying that she loves me. This is agony. Today I see the marriage counselor alone so that I can share everything first, I am hoping that this will begin to clear the pain. I never thought that I would go through this pain and torture. Alot of it is my fault since I keep going through the evidence.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

I wish the best to all of you who have been virtually destroyed by selfish, inconsiderate, highly deceptive partners. I hate all the cruelness, disrespect and hatefulness that takes place and everything else that inevitably occurs with the fallout connected to infidelity. 

How does a person ever expect to gain back trust after such a huge life changing event? Many cheaters say they "just want to get on with their lives." Undoubtedly they wish it would just all go away. It is easy for them to say, as they are the one who betrayed their spouse.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

foolz1 said:


> I wish the best to all of you who have been virtually destroyed by selfish, inconsiderate, highly deceptive partners. I hate all the cruelness, disrespect and hatefulness that takes place and everything else that inevitably occurs with the fallout connected to infidelity.
> 
> How does a person ever expect to gain back trust after such a huge life changing event? Many cheaters say they "just want to get on with their lives." Undoubtedly they wish it would just all go away. It is easy for them to say, as they are the one who betrayed their spouse.


I couldn't agree more, Foolz1 

I am sorry you're going through this, culinary1972. I hope that your visit with the marriage counselor today helps to give you some peace of mind.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

i want to thank everyone for their support and kind words. I saw the marriage therapist alone and ultimately she said my marriage is in danger. We already had issues before the EA, and ultimately it does not matter what happened, but I should focus on the fact that my marriage is in trouble. 

That night (after seeing the therapist), I confronted my wife with everything. I asked her if she is ready to commit to the relationship, and she said yes. I then told her that we both deserved respect, and that she has disrespected me by continuing to text her "friend" even after I told her to stop. I told her she is hurting me, and cornering me to make a strong decision. I told her about the love message that he sent to her, and the fact that really hurt me was not necessarily the context of the message, but the fact that my wife forwarded the message from her cell phone to another email account. I told her that the message of the letter was the fact that he was deeply in love with her. The fact that she has done this betrayed me, broke my trust in her completely, and that she royally screwed me as a best friend. I gave her an ultimatum in which she is to choose between me or her "friend" and with hesitation and a little anger she said she made the decision, and that it was me. I told her how much I hurt inside, and that I was slowly going insane because of this. She the said that she made a mistake in leading him on the way she did, and then said but i have no feelings for him. I told her to be honest with me, and if she is in love with him, to come clean. She kept saying how she is not. I feel like I am not being told the truth, that there was some level of interest or feelings involved, especially since she "led" him on for so long. She then stated that he made her happy by making her laugh and paying alot of attention to her. I told her that as far as I was concerned that was cheating especially since I was doing everything in my power to make her happy. 

The next day me and my wife went out to eat, and nothing was really said. She then asked me why won't I talk to her, and immediately (and honestly beyond my control) I gave her the coldest look I have ever given anyone. We finished dinner and went to the car, and she asked me why was I so quiet and why did my look have so much hate. I told her that I didn't hate her, but that it was a look of hurt. That I was hurting inside, and this was going to take time. Also, that we had an appointment with the therapist, and that I would like for her to go but was not going to force her. She said yes she would go. 

The next day she was feeling real sick all over her body at work, and when I brought her back home she laid in bed and started crying very badly. AFter trying to talk to her to calm her down, she said that I was going to continue to punish her for her actions, that I wasn't going to let go. I said I wanted to let this go, and that we need outside professional help to guide us through everything and that I am still in love with her. 

Well the appointment was last tuesday, and I had to cancel since it was conflicting with my wife's schedule. I scheduled it for this upcoming monday and reminded my wife yesterday that it was important for both of us to go. She said she is not sure if she can make it since the management at work is already making the schedule for the week. I said that she can tell them it's an appointment that she needs to go to and can supply her bosses with a note. She said we will see, but honestly I can tell that she does not want to attend, or that her heart is not really in it. 

I guess I am hurting since I can tell what her priorities are. Slowly I am coming to the conclusion that if this past EA issue and other marital issues do not get worked out, I will have to move on without her in my life. She hasn't talked about the EA or anything else, and still insists that she did nothing wrong. With a heavy heart, I feel that I must make a decision. This is really hurting but not as much as before. I don't think about the other guy anymore, I just concentrate on how badly I want this to work out. In my heart I feel that I am slowly falling out of love with my wife now. Wow this really hurts.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Sorry to hear. :-(

She's afraid of what she's going to hear at the appointment. And that's normal. But she's putting the fear ahead of the marriage.

I suppose you could mention to her that you know she's afraid. It is going to feel worse before it feels better. But that if she's not willing to face that fear dead on, she's leaving you with no choice.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

This forum has really helped me alot through these dark days. I have a question for anyone who wants to answer. Why do we (the cheated on) have a yearning to know the actual truth behind the affair. In other words, it's a deep hunger inside of me to know the extent of the affair and how far it went (details and all), even though the truth could be very ugly, why do we feel like we have to know?

I guess I am asking cause I feel like I am the crazy masochist trying to get information that I know could possibly hurt more than it already has.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Because what we don't know scares us the most?


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

dobo said:


> Because what we don't know scares us the most?


It seems to me that you are partly correct. The only other troubling thing is the old saying: "what you don't know can't hurt you." I do not embrace that quote, as it certainly can hurt you, in many instances.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

today I will be seeing the marriage counselor with my wife. So much on my mind, so much I want to say. We talked about my wife's EA a week and a half ago, and I confronted her with new evidence, so this time she admitted she is also at fault for leading him on, but that no emotions were involved. I find that so hard to believe especially since the guy is in love with my wife. I mean who leads someone on to the point where the other person has such deep feelings, and yet she claims no feelings were involved?

I stopped talking about this topic with my wife since then as the next few days she has been getting physically sick. Last Wednesday, her "friend" (which is also her supervisor) called my wife on her cell phone to talk about work-related matters. It was my wife's day off, so it kind of bothered me that he would call her on her day off to talk about work, when he could have waited until she returned to work. Also the topic was not that important as I was sitting by her and listening to her responses. Then on Friday, my wife receives a phone call from his girlfriend. Basically she wants to be friends with my wife, and my wife was telling her on the phone that she likes her, and if she needs anything, she can count on my wife. They all used to work together at the hotel, and we have all hung out in the past as a group. Now it really bothers me that this guy's girlfiend, out of the blue, calls my wife and tells her she wants to be friends with her. I mean the timing could not have been more out of place especially with everything that has happened. It's obvious to me that this guy's girlfriend does not know what has happened. But how did she get my wife's phone number (when she did not have it before) and why call my wife now?

It's as if this guy gave his girlfriend my wife's phone number so that she can call to be "friends" with my wife, but also I feel this is another way for this guy to have some connection with my wife. Also, my wife still receives text messages at certain times at night, which in the past would have been him. I have not said anything as I don't know who is texting her, but when the phone goes off with the text message alert, she looks at the phone and puts it down. 

I am getting real tired of all of this. Hopefully the marriage counselor can get her to open up, or at least help us.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Or the GF knows and believes in the "keep your enemies closer" philosophy.

Your wife needs to tell the GF NO.

You should also be looking at those texts.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

well she finally came clean. And this is after 9 months of knowing that there was something wrong with her stories. 2 weeks ago, I confronted her about the other man, after not talking about this for so long. I told her that we never resolved this issue, that she refused help from our marriage counselor, and even stop seeing her psychiatrist and stopped the medication (anti-depressives). 

I told her how much anger I was feeling inside, and that I really wanted to retaliate against this guy. She asked me to drop the issue and that she was very very sad that I can't let go. I asked her what happened, what did he try to do, and she admitted that he tried kissing her on several occasions, but that basically the night ended with them going to breakfast early in the morning. I kept pushing and pushing to get more information, and she yelled that nothing happened, that she stopped his advances, and that's all to tell. I asked if they had sex, and she screamed on the phone that she did not sleep with him. 

I kept investigating, and finally she gave me access to the cell phone records. She asked me not to read to deeply into the records, but what I saw practically destroyed me right on the spot. I am talking about up to a thousand text messages being sent back and forth between them in a period of several months. If you have read my story about, I caught wind of this in the end of September, but yet the text messages kept going till the beginning of December, and suddenly they just stopped (phone calls included). I could see that they would talk to each other for hundreds of minutes (spread out throughout the day) when I was at work. 

I finally gave my wife a chance to come clean, and yet again I got nothing. I finally told her that I saw the context of the text messages, and she told she has had enough. I told her I knew everything and I wanted a divorce. I was only bluffing about viewing the text messages, but yet she fell for it. I told her how she disappointed me tremendously that she had a sexual affair. I called her mom to tell her what happened and that I was totally distraught. Her mother tried to calm me down, yet my emotions began taking over. I got home, found my wife in a fetal position crying, and I started to ask all of the questions that I could think of. For example how many times did she have sex, when, at what location and so forth. She stated it only happened one time at the hotel that they both worked at. I started to go crazy and kept trying to get more information but could not get any details whatsoever. She started saying how she wanted to die, and then she started turning blue cause she could not breathe. I calmed her down, and she started coming around. Her father then called to find out what happened, and my wife and him had a long conversation. 

Before the father called, I called the other man, and told him that I was going to pursue sexual harrassment charges against him. He started to say that I have no proof, no stained bedsheets, no evidence. I gave the phone to my wife and said "talk to this mother ****er". They started to talk to each other for a minute but she spent the majority of the time just listening to whatever he said. I finally said " to hell with this ****, i won't do anything. I just hope he dies". I had my wife call him and tell him that i won't do anything, and she finally said to him in a very calm voice "I never want to see you again". The call ended and that's when my emotions took over again. I started yelling that she was used for sex, and thats all he ever wanted. 

the next few days became more and more difficult as I started binging on alcohol heavily. She would come home from work, as she works very late, and I would just start drilling into her but would finally break down in a ball of tears and just keep apologizing. 

Last week I told her to meet me at a bar, and again I started asking a thousand questions. I was silent at first, but then I started asking how many times did the sex occur and so forth. I then asked her about a particular situation in which all of us including my friends, went to another hotel downtown. I recall her grabbing him by the arm and saying come with me. My sixth sense started ringing bells, and I got up to go and look for them. I went to every floor, just walking the hallways, and yet nothing. I found the pool on the second floor thinking they would be there since originally the party was a hotel pool party. Yet again, nothing. I took the elevator downstairs to the first floor, and I found them waiting to get inside to go back up. They kind of backed away from each other, and I got out asking what is going on. I remember walking the lobby of the hotel and noticing how dark it was. There was not a soul in sight as it was 3 in the morning. I asked her about that situation and asked if sex occurred that night. She again broke down and said that nothing happened they just flirted alot that night. I told her I have a hard time believing. 

This past weekend I got off the alcohol, and started to leave her alone. The mental images in my head are just killing me. I told her that I forgive her and that I want to move forward with my marriage. I took her to church, we prayed together, and yet she was ice cold. She started to complain about small trivial things such as the house being cleaned, and her moods started to swing around a bit. I bought her lunch, and left the matter alone. That night I again told her I want to move forward but that I now realize that the damage is much more heavier than I thought. I told her that this guy ultimately hurt our marriage heavily, but that the mental damage to her is a little more than I can handle. 

I told her that I will be waiting for her at the end of the rainbow with my arms open when she gets the help she needs. This includes psychological and psychiatric help. Her mom is now flying over here to help out with the situation as I am leaving tomorrow morning for a month as my job is sending me to a remote office. I am so terrified as to her loneliness since mom won't be here for 2 weeks. I am terrified to know the details but yet I keep pushing for more. The nightmares I have are eating me up every night regarding the affair. 

Today I told her that I needed her to change phone numbers, and in addition I stated that a STD test needs to be done. She agreed, but yet the doubts start in my mind again as she she stated before that the sex was protected. I called her doctor to get an appointment and the doctor is willing to help her including working out a financial arrangement since we are out of insurance. I called my wife and told her to call the doctor which she did not. I got angry and said that this needs to be done as the damage is too great for me to handle and she needs help. She said she is fine, and doing what I requested in bringing her mother here. I said that's not good enough to save our marriage that I needed more. 

My fear is finding out what caused the affair to end. Was it a pregnancy, did he rape or assault her, or what happened. What did he threaten her with to get her to deny and lie about the whole matter. I think I will never know, and that's the part that kills me. Please help me with any advice or thoughts you may have, as I am deteriorating emotionally.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

will someone please help me. I am now out of town, and my thoughts are all scattered. I have been left hanging with alot of information and tons of unanswered questions.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

culinary1972 said:


> I told her that I forgive her and that I want to move forward with my marriage.


Do you still feel this way?


culinary1972 said:


> I told her that this guy ultimately hurt our marriage heavily, but that the mental damage to her is a little more than I can handle.


Does she still work with him? If so, she needs to find another job. It will be very difficult for you to heal if she still sees him.


culinary1972 said:


> My fear is finding out what caused the affair to end. Was it a pregnancy, did he rape or assault her, or what happened. What did he threaten her with to get her to deny and lie about the whole matter. I think I will never know, and that's the part that kills me. Please help me with any advice or thoughts you may have, as I am deteriorating emotionally.


I am not sure why you assume it ended in a threatening way? If his girlfriend was pregnant maybe he decided the right thing to do was to end things and move forward with his girlfriend? Or your wife decided to end things and focus on her marriage? There are many possibilities.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

This time away from each other may be good for you. Unless you worried that she will cheat again. Try to sit down and focus your thoughts and questions. Right them down. Instead of just letting everything bounce around in your head. Talk to her during the day, but do not grill her. You want her to want you to come home.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You have got to get professional help for this. If you're in the US, go to Join the Live United Movement and find your local chapter; they will help you get counseling for free or that you can afford.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> This past weekend I got off the alcohol, and started to leave her alone. The mental images in my head are just killing me. I told her that I forgive her and that I want to move forward with my marriage. I took her to church, we prayed together, and yet she was ice cold. She started to complain about small trivial things such as the house being cleaned, and her moods started to swing around a bit. I bought her lunch, and left the matter alone. That night I again told her I want to move forward but that I now realize that the damage is much more heavier than I thought. I told her that this guy ultimately hurt our marriage heavily, but that the mental damage to her is a little more than I can handle.


You mention several times that you 'want to work this out,' and that 'you want to save your marriage' etc. And so I need to ask: what have you done to that end?

In all of your posts so far, I haven't seen a single step.

You mention that 'this guy' has hurt your marriage heavily - but may I point out that in nearly every single affair, the marriage is already suffering before the affair takes place. On top of that, the affair is what hurts the marriage.

But even more importantly, how you react, how you treat your spouse affects the marriage. And this is something I hope you take a very good look at. You mention the 'mental' damage to her is more than you can handle. My advice: then stop it! YOU are doing all you can to harm her. You badger her until she is an emotional wreck - and then drug her and yourself to cover that up.

This is an incorrect approach to marriage recovery, and most likely will end up destroying the marriage rather than helping it. Perhaps inside that is what you want. No problem, be honest and tell her that, get it over with.

If, on the other hand, you wish to actually save your marriage, there are much more positive ways to deal with all of this, including making your marriage a place where your wife feels safe enough to confide in you.

Rather than your wife undergoing interrogation, torture, yelling, threats and drugging, make your home a sanctuary where truth is available and is accepted safely. It is entirely unacceptable for a human being to undergo that kind of treatment, ever. 

The key: you are acting out of emotions, rather than deliberately (at least, I hope so. If you were treating her this way deliberately I'd say there is a HUGE hidden problem in your marriage that must be addressed.) WhenEVER you talk to her, make sure that you leave all negative emotions at home. Yes, this is difficult, but it is possible. 

You want information from her? That's fine - you don't need it instantly, as if your life depended upon having all of that THIS SECOND, or children around the world will die, or the rain-forests will disappear. Ask a couple of questions, and then spend the rest of your time working on the marriage. There is much to be done, and NONE of it requires that she be put through hell because of your inability to control your emotions. A mark of maturity is the ability to see what must be done without acting on emotions. And unless you reach that point, YOU are doing harm to your marriage - compounding the damage already done.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

I am getting a little better as the days go by. My mind has been occupied by the work I am involved in which has brought me to another state for a month. Being away from her does hurt as I do miss her, but I feel that I am finally beginning to heal a little. 

I have stopped drinking alcohol, as I do not want to face my pain when I begin to drink, and in addition do not want to call her on the phone to lash out. I rarely drink, and this is the first time to drink heavily. I am kind, patient, and gentle with her hoping that this type of attitude will begin the healing for both myself and my wife. 

The truth is that I want to make my marriage work and I do love her. I have always treated her with respect, and have been a loving, kind, and I do believe a good husband. The only thing that I can think of, that she did mention, was that there was a time (for 3 months), that I would come home from a very stressful job, and just lay on the couch and watch television. That was when the affair began.

The funny thing is that I am not haunted by the images in my head anymore, but the one thing that hurts the most are the lies that I was given. She lied about everything even when I shared my suspicions, or even presented hard evidence based on circumstance. On a few occasions when I did present evidence based on facts (such as emails, phone records, and so forth) would she admit to them. She said that the sexual encounter only happened one time, but yet there were too many times that they were together alone at night (with the excuse that they were only going to bars to drink). I guess that is what is hurting the most at this time, the realization that there were many more encounters than just one, and she continues to lie about it. One encounter was a hotel pool party that I mentioned earlier. She insisted that they went downstairs with him to flirt. But when I finally found them one hour later, they were waiting to get on the elevator on the first floor of a very dark lobby that no one attended to at three in the morning. In addition the other man had his own room as we had rented our own room for the party. I remember her grabbing him by the hand and leaving. This encounter along with several other does not make sense in accordance to her story of just leaving for one hour to flirt, and she still insists that is all that happened. 

Do I want to know the details of the encounter? NO. I just want to know how many times this happened. I think I have earned that right. I feel in my heart that when the truth comes out, will I begin to trust her. I do love her, and want our marriage to become stronger but there is a trust factor that she has destroyed COUNTLESS times over and over again. 

I don't want to torture her, I honestly tell you the truth. But while there is constant dishonesty and covering up, the trust cannot come into place. I have stopped the questioning but every time I speak to her on the phone, I feel the questions begin to arise in the back of my throat which is where I leave them.

I have told her that I will be patient and give her the time she needs. But there is a limit.

Your thoughts or advice are greatly appreciated. I want to thank all of you who have responded to my cry for help. Your words, supportive or harsh, has gotten me through very trying times.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read the book Surviving an Affair. It will tell you a LOT about what you're going through, how to recognize what she's doing, so you won't feel like you're going crazy. It will tell you what to expect. It will reassure you that she is NOT your wife; not your old one. Right now, she is an ALIEN in your wife's body and she will do things to spin your head around, to keep getting her fix of the OM. Even if he's out of the picture, she'll still do that, unless you take a hard stance and show her that you won't accept lying.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

turnera said:


> Read the book Surviving an Affair. It will tell you a LOT about what you're going through, how to recognize what she's doing, so you won't feel like you're going crazy. It will tell you what to expect. It will reassure you that she is NOT your wife; not your old one. Right now, she is an ALIEN in your wife's body and she will do things to spin your head around, to keep getting her fix of the OM. Even if he's out of the picture, she'll still do that, unless you take a hard stance and show her that you won't accept lying.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

the hardest part of all is knowing that she was in love or at the least had deep feelings. Today I finally came to that realization after taking a step back, looking at the big picture, controling my emotions, and accepting the reality. I admit we all make mistakes, and everyone is prone to temptation of the flesh. But now I realize this is much more than just the act or acts of sex. Shefell in love and I must to do what it takes to save my marriage. The thing is that I want honesty so I can begin to trust again. I dont want to question her, present evidence, and so forth. I wanther to be open and tell me everything now matter how much it hurts. I will stay by her side andmake this marriage work with her as she has stated the same. how do you trust someone that shows remorse but continues denying and lying in the face of great evidence? 

How do I also begin to trust when she continued communicating with him for 3 months after I caught them, talked to the both of them to stop and it continued? The things he said to her in emails and texts shows a man that was deeply in love with her and her with him. Gosh it hurts and this is so hard but I am being patient and mature, butthis is now the last opportunity she will have. I did share this with her mom as she was desperate and wanted to kill herself so I needed the help. Her mom thanked me for sharing this and is now coming from out of the country to be with her. I have decided not to pursue any more questioning of my wife and will have to talk to her mom for guidance. This may be the wrong thing to do but my wifes mentioning of suicide was just to much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, she really knew how to push your buttons, didn't she?

This is NOT your old wife. This is a woman who WANTS WHAT SHE WANTS WHEN SHE WANTS IT AND IF SHE LIES TO YOU TO KEEP GETTING IT, SHE WILL.

Period.

Give in, kiss up, at your own risk.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

turnera said:


> Yeah, she really knew how to push your buttons, didn't she?
> 
> This is NOT your old wife. This is a woman who WANTS WHAT SHE WANTS WHEN SHE WANTS IT AND IF SHE LIES TO YOU TO KEEP GETTING IT, SHE WILL.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

I appreciate ur advice. But the love I have for my wife, or the person sheused to be is immense. I know the risks and am trying to get her to expel this new person she has become. Yes my patience has run out but I dont want to choosethe path of least resistance and just walk especially since there may be a chance to not only fix this, but make my marriage stronger than before.

trust me the emotions i harbor are a roller coaster. I am hurting so much, yet I am strong. I mean heck I chase tornados for a living LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You are not researching the right information.

The INSTANT a person enters into an affair, their chemicals take over. That FEEL GOOD that they receive from sneaking around, tricking everyone, lying and getting away with it, the hot steamy sex that NO ONE else can compete with - it is A DRUG.

A drug they can't just walk away from.

You being a GREAT GUY - it makes NO DIFFERENCE.

The only way to stop an affair is to make the affair NASTY.

That means you are not the 'good guy' who shows her by how good you are why she should come back home.

Really?

Hmmm...I'll pick...sweet, loving, dutiful husband who does everything I ask for, or...I'll pick the hot sexy guy who takes my breath away and tells me I'm the most amazing woman on EARTH and he can't stand one MOMENT away from me...

Which one do you think she'll pick?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

btw, chasing tornadoes...

That's AMAZING...

for YOU.

For HER...it's a husband who is so absorbed in his profession that he's willing to forget he's even married, because there's yet another tornado to chase. Which involves, if I'm not mistaken (according to all the shows I've seen), YOU being on the road with your crew chasing your next BIG THING, while your wife stays at home, waiting, for the storm season to be over.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

turnera said:


> btw, chasing tornadoes...
> 
> That's AMAZING...
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

i know u are right especially about the other man. Why the hell the denial of all of this in the face of overwhelming evidence. I already know everything so why deny? it's just making her look more stupid than smart. Wow over 700 text messages in 2 to 3 months and no feelings involved?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Because if she denies it, she doesn't have to end it. And she wants him, not you.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> i know u are right especially about the other man. Why the hell the denial of all of this in the face of overwhelming evidence. I already know everything so why deny? it's just making her look more stupid than smart. Wow over 700 text messages in 2 to 3 months and no feelings involved?


There is denial there because there is a part of her that wants to remain with you. That is the the person you need to talk to; the person to whom recovery means something. 

She has found someone who is filling needs and satisfying a longing that she has had for some time - something that she at least thinks she wasn't getting at home. Whatever that is, it is the weak point in your marriage, and something that will need to change, _once the affair ends._ 

Now, in essence you have already done what I'm writing about below, but I wanted to show you how this process works:

At first, you must focus on two things: 

1) Not providing REAL reasons for her to justify her affair. That means 'Plan A' - be the best, most desirable, loving, strong, caring man in the world. Be the ideal husband.

2) Ending the affair by taking away anything that makes it desirable.

Gather all your proof, and simply confront her with it. No accusations, NO NEGATIVE EMOTIONS. Just a flat statement: 'Here is all my proof, I request that you end this affair and work with me to make our marriage what it is supposed to be. I love you and want you with me, and this affair is hurting us.'

That is your official notification that the affair must end. Don't pay attention to denials - you have proof. DO listen to her reasons - buried in all the 'alien' responses are hints to what needs to change. You'll have to sort that later. For now, just gather info for future reference.

Your request that the affair end MUST contain another condition: she must cut off ALL contact with this other man, completely and permanently. There is almost no chance of recovery as long as this does not happen.

Don't worry about trusting her yet. Trust is something that is built over time, and is based upon the premise that a person's words match their actions. Right now, trust is not a necessity. In fact, you'd do better to be a bit suspicious. She must earn your trust. And - I might add - you need to earn hers. 

There is a reason why this affair occurred, and it almost certainly is linked to the fact that she did not feel she could trust that you would hear what she was trying to tell you. Something was wrong, and she found someone who appeared to take care of it. 

I say appeared to take care of it, because it was done illicitly, meaning that it was built on deceit. 

So, you must find out what was lost between you -and work to recover it. And then you must work to create a marriage where there are 'early warning' signals - a means of detecting trouble before it gets worse. 

You can do it.


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

I have a related question forTanelornpete and turnera-
What is you have confronted the affair and presented all your evidence and they continue to deny it. In my case I presented separation papers and clearly spelled out infidelity and abadonment as cause. I am trying to show my husband that I still care for him and want to change how we communicate by not arguing with him or responding to his nastiness towards me but it has no effect. I feel there is nothing more I can do, should I just give up entirely?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have a related question for Tanelornpete and turnera-
> What is you have confronted the affair and presented all your evidence and they continue to deny it.


This happens much of the time. In fact, most of the time. It's nice when the confronted spouse agrees and returns to the marriage, but its not the general rule. You HOPE that will occur, but don't expect it.

The reason for confronting with evidence has a different purpose. It is a formal declaration that you are both aware of the affair and intend to 'fight' for your marriage (be careful of that word 'fight' - it has some negative connotations!)



> In my case I presented separation papers and clearly spelled out infidelity and abadonment as cause.


Generally, there are several steps to go through BEFORE you separate - 

1) Gather Evidence
2) Confront
3) Disclose
4) Expose
5) Plan A
6) Plan B
7) Legal Separation

Skipping steps tends to work negatively - when an affair is ONGOING, the Disloyal Spouse truly WANTS you out of their life - so separating without prior steps generally enables the affair. It can still work, because, for the most part affairs are fantasy: once reality sets in, the Disloyal Spouse discovers that the Other Person is not quite what they imagined.

Hence, its generally wisest to work a 'Plan A' from the time you suspect the affair and onward until you switch to 'Plan B.' (In an active, deliberate, healthy marriage, Plan A should be a permanent state of being for both partners.) The idea is to build an image into the mind of the Disloyal Spouse of what will be missing, should they continue the affair.



> I am trying to show my husband that I still care for him and want to change how we communicate by not arguing with him or responding to his nastiness towards me but it has no effect. I feel there is nothing more I can do, should I just give up entirely?


These are very important things to keep doing - but there is more. In general, an affair happens because some need or other is not being met - and the Disloyal Spouse finds another person (outside the marriage) who at least SEEMS to fill that need. In addition to not arguing with him (I take it you really mean not 'fighting' with him?) and not responding to his nastiness (see later paragraph) you also need to discover both what need(s) wasn't/weren't being filled - and also what things you may have been doing to destroy the love he DID have for you. (He's doing a good job of destroying your love for him right now, isn't he?)

Hence:

Emotional Needs and Love Busters questionnaires.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

We tried talking about it last night some more. I was very gentle but yet very firm with her. I told her that I will not leave her no matter how difficult this is. In addition, I told her that I have alot of evidence and she needs to come clean. Again she stated that there is nothing more to say and started to cry. I told her that I am aware that she was in love with him, and much more,,,,,,,, that I am giving her the opportunity to come clean. The truth is that I have not sorted out all of the information yet as there are hundreds of pages of text messages that I have and it hurts to look at them.

I told her that I have evidence and more that I have to look through. Again she insisted that there is nothing more, and to please stop going through evidence as she is tired of going in circles. I told her the last time she told me this, I chose to trust her and boom a mountain of evidence fell on me. She stated that she just wants to leave this behind like it never ever happened and wanted me to do the same. I told her that will never happen, that I will not dwell on this affair as long as I feel that she comes clean with everything and that we work together on this matter. She begged me to leave this behind and again I said no, that her statements are making me more suspicious of more activity and that she needs to come clean. Please keep in mind, that I remained firm but was very patient and gentle with her. My emotions were not controlling the matter.

She started to cry that she made a mistake and wants to leave this behind. That she felt alone, had no friends, and I was to busy with work ( I was not traveling at this time, but was very stressed out). I admitted that I did not do enough to make this marriage strong, that I am also a guilty party in this matter and that I will do my best to not repeat that mistake. She cried more, and thanked me for my patience and that she loved me. I told her that I am here for her, and when she is ready to open up, she can count on me not just as a husband, but as a best friend.

Again I backed off a bit as I am out of town, and do not want to add more pressure to the pot as she is alone and under alot of depression. I will wait till her mother arrives on Sunday and then lay out all of my cards on the table once and for all. 

Gosh, I hope that I am doing the right thing.............


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds good. Do NOT let up and give in, once you see her. Just like a child, you have to INSIST on total honesty, or there can be no moving forward. That is ALL you want. I always told my DD19 that I would never judge her or condemn her for anything she did wrong (barring illegal), as LONG as she told me the truth.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Gosh, I hope that I am doing the right thing.............


Me too.

There are two stages in the recovery of a marriage:

1) End the affair.

2) Work on the relationship.

She has already admitted that she had an affair, and has given you access to her passwords, email, etc. What else are you looking for? You claim you have mountains of evidence to go through....to what end? 

You claim that you are going to lay all your cards out on the table.....again I ask....why? What is the purpose of this? What do you hope to accomplish? Did you not already confront her? Has she not confessed already? You have COMPLETED step one. Move on to step two!

Here's what I see: your wife had an affair. You found and obtained evidence. You confronted her. She admitted that she had an affair. 

Question 1) Has it stopped? 

The reason you have access to her passwords, email, etc. is NOT to gather evidence of something that went on in the past! _You already know this happened!_ What you do now is look for stuff happening IN THE PRESENT! 

Is there NEW contact with the Other Man? Then you must address that. But if there is NO NEW CONTACT, then for God's sake, move on. 

Get to what really needs to happen. Start working on the marriage. Find where things went wrong, and work on changing that, because that's a pattern, a habit, that needs to change. 

There is NO REASON to go back over what you have with her. That evidence is for YOU - it showed you what happened. Now it's time to recover. And that will not happen as long as you keep poring over text after text, looking for new things to throw in her face, looking for new things to punish her for. There is no reason to punish her! She is your WIFE, not your child! You have no business trying to hurt her every time you feel hurt.

You job, now that the affair is over, is to work on your marriage.

Try this: If you still need (for whatever reason - to feel the pain over and over, to get back that old feeling of anguish, to get back to the feeling that you are better than her, whatever) - sit down with her, and make an arrangement that you will ask her TWO questions regarding the affair each day. You will provide absolute safety in which she can answer them honestly - and you will ask no more than two. Take the answers as they come, and leave it at that. Do NOT take it out on her! You are the one wanting the information. She doesn't want the punishment. In order for you both to be happy, you'll have to make such an arrangement.

And if you think you can't forgive her unless you get her to jump through enough hoops - think again. You CAN forgive her. You will simply have a hard time FEELING like you've forgiven her. There's an enormous difference. Forgiveness is a choice of action toward a person. FEELING it is something that will happen to you over time. And keep this in mind - you put her throuhg TOO many hoops in order to make yourself feel better, and she may not forgive YOU for the behavior. 

In other words, you could lose her simply because you don't move on toward recovery! All you'll be doing is setting the stage for ANOTHER (and possibly more destructive) affair!

Work on your relationship with your wife instead.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

Thank you for the advice. I am not trying to torture her and setup another affair. I am going through so much pain and want it to stop. I feel the only way to stop is to get everything out in the open. I want to remove that doubt from my head. I mean that with all of my heart.

The problem I have is that when I present more evidence to her, she fights and fights, and then confirms the information. She has lied to me for over 9 months now, and I want to begin to trust again. She is very remorseful for everything, which I accept and most importantly forgive, but she has not been completely honest with me. How do I start over again, build my marriage to a stronger level then before, give all that I have (emotionally and everything) when there has not been honesty?

I failed (and I say this with great sadness) my wife because for a month, I would come home and just watch television. I would still conversate with her, be loving (to a lesser degree than now), pay attention to her and everything a husband, lover, friend and ally should do. She kept this going months after my stress finally subsided and started to giver her more attention. She lied to me constantly for nine months. I uncovered information in the end of September and by November never discussed this again with her and things actually got better. She kept the communication going with him till December. Also in October, we tried marriage counseling and all she did was lie to both me and the counselor. When my gut feeling went crazy 3 weeks ago, she denied everything and kept saying nothing happened. then she admitted he tried to kiss her but she did not respond. She also adamently denied any sex ever happened. It's when I finally looked over the context of the messages, I knew she has been lying the whole time and I told her I wanted an immediate divorce. She broke down and admitted that the sex only happened once. 

the truth is I don't have evidence that it happened more than once. But try to understand how I feel PLEASE AS THIS HURTS SO MUCH ! She admitted that the sex happened at the hotel that they both worked at during work hours. But come on, they spent hours with each other late at night at supposedly the bars. And also, no one takes that risk of getting caught having sex at their workplace that is under heavy surveillance being a five star hotel, unless the act has already happened more than once. The truth (I say with tears) is that this happened more than once and the sex was just getting more risky and exciting. 

I do not believe that in forgiving also comes forgetting. No. We must work through this and I want my wife. I need my wife. I love my wife. I realize she now has 2 sides to her, and the side that wants me as her husband is getting stronger. With that said, I am not trying to destroy that at all. 

I too want this to go away, I honestly do. But only through honesty, respect, lots of love, patience and understanding. I am willing to give all of those attributes and much more if need be, but I deserve the truth to come out. I will be patient but as I have stated I have a limit. 

Communication with this OM I think ended around December as the phone records indicate. But she kept pictures of this man in her facebook profile until 4 weeks ago when I demanded for them to be removed. For the love of everything holy, one of the pictures was of the three of us together all smiling and having fun. Gosh !!!! Her excuse was that she forgot to remove them a long time ago. But yet she logs into her facebook account everyday?

The act of having sex is not bothering anymore. The act is done and nothing can change that. But I do not want to be treated like an idiot and continue to be lied to as I have been for 9 months. The sex was more than once, and have been too many circumstances as proof. Too many times they hung out alone. This is what I am trying to get at, it's not the act of sex or an affair that is killing me. It's the denial and dishonesty and lack of action that hurts the most.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

I even let her keep her job at the hotel after my discovery in September, and still having that suspicion of something greater. She went parttime status in February as she got a better job on a full time status, and only worked one day of the week at the hotel. 

So I know there was some kind of visual communication until 2 weeks ago when she admitted to the affair and I demanded she resign from her job or that I would leave. But keep this in mind, was the communication professional or personal? I will never know at this time. I don't have access to her email accounts (she had several) anymore. I had to demand access to the cellular accounts and got access 2 weeks ago. 

This is the position I am in.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So:

Ask her to take a polygraph so you can have a baseline and then DROP the whole thing.

Set up a post-nup so that you feel secure for the future.


Then you can move on.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

A friend finally sat me down and hit me with the truth. my wife is an absolute liar and i have to face the truth that the sex was probably very frequent and that the reason they had sex at the hotel during work hours with heavy survelance is that their comfort level with sex was very high and comfident. and agaim she swore up and down that she has told the whole truth. Gosh this is really starting to hurt me very badly. please help with any thoughts or advice
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Protect yourself.

If she did have real love for you, YOU have to stand true to yourself and know what YOU need in a wife. 

If she is unwilling to be that person, move on.

That said, if she is still seeing this guy, you have to STOP the affair before you do anything. That means exposing it to HER family and friends and HIS family and friends.

We can help you from there. But you have to stop the affair first. You do that by telling everyone who matters to them. The truth.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

What the hell is going on. I mean i know what everyone said but everything seems so surreal. the affair ended already that i am sure of. But damn she kept photos of him until 4 weeks ago on her facebook with the excuse zhe forgot to take them down even though she logs in everyday. it's just becoming onething after another. her family knows and her mom will be here sunday. i talked to her today and she was only aware that a small affair happened but today i told her this is deeper with alot of feelings and lies involved. her mom seemed shocked and i told her i always suspected something for a long time andshe has been lying the whole time. The screwed up thing is that i feel that everything i have worked for in 4 years is crashing very quickly around me, it's so weird and i feel weird like it's a bad ****ing dream
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

i am with my friend talking to him about tornadoes and motorcycles so i am hyperfocusing on the conversation to keep the tears from flowing. i am also thinking of my fathers words of never letting another man see you in pain emotionally and all that macho crap. thats what is keeping me sane right now and not breaking down uncontrollably. today foe the first time in my life i feel less as a man than ever before. now i question myself as a whole. i was there for her as a man, a friend, a husband, everything. it just hurts so much
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Is this a real friend of yours? Then talk to him.

Real friends WANT to help their friends.

LET him help you.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

he is my friend and my boss. i am concerned of showing my emotions based on the line of work we are in. he says he is impressed with my strength and handling of this situation as most men would break or not tolerate. it's mot that i am proud but i feel crushed and spit on. is this normal?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Thank you for the advice. I am not trying to torture her and setup another affair. I am going through so much pain and want it to stop. I feel the only way to stop is to get everything out in the open. I want to remove that doubt from my head. I mean that with all of my heart.


You are trying to stop your pain at her expense. That's the trouble! Yes, each spouse in a marriage owes the other honesty. But there is another side to this: if you want your spouse to be completely honest with you, you need to make them feel safe enough to talk to you. 

Your wife is terrified of your reactions. She lies because of the reaction she faces if she tells you the truth. It's worth it to her to take a chance that you might find out. If you don't find out, she is free for the time being from abuse. IF she tells you - abuse. If you don't find out - no abuse. Is it RIGHT to choose such a path? Of course not. But she most likely feels trapped. You take it out on her if she tells you, you take it out on her if she does not. As far as I know, she may confess to anything you tell her she ahs done - just for some peace. That is how ALL forms of torture (regardless of the government doing it) works.



> The problem I have is that when I present more evidence to her, she fights and fights, and then confirms the information.


So why do you present more evidence to her? You ALREADY _know_ an affair happened! Since you have that knowledge, you no longer need to prove it over and over! An affair is an affair is an affair!

It is _also_ proof that there is something in your marriage that is NOT working. At least for her. And your job as her spouse should be to FIND THAT OUT!

So STOP with 'presenting evidence'. Both of you already know the affair happened. In time that pain will lessen.



> She has lied to me for over 9 months now, and I want to begin to trust again. She is very remorseful for everything, which I accept and most importantly forgive, but she has not been completely honest with me. How do I start over again, build my marriage to a stronger level then before, give all that I have (emotionally and everything) when there has not been honesty?


It does not sound like you've forgiven her, to me, but that's just me on the other end of the internet. Regardless, you can NEVER 'start' over until you actually take that_ first step._ It does NOT require that you scrape every single microsecond of memory of actions in the past from her mind, flay her with continual 3rd degrees and drive her to drugging herself to keep from killing herself!

What it takes is VERY SIMPLE.

Do both of you want to make your marriage work? If so, what are you willing to do? What is SHE willing to do? I posted some questionnaires in an above post - I suggest you BOTH take them - and then_ take the time _(over several days, preferably) to discuss what you have found out. 

Here's what I see happening: you have a strong emotional need for openness and honesty (at least, right now you do!) She has other needs. You want her to fill that need: but there is residual damage from the past that is hindering that. And instead of working with her to get rid of that baggage, you are simply laying a HUGE Love Buster (Disrespectful Judgment) upon her. You demand that she fill your needs, while hitting her with Love BUsters! 

That is a deal destined to fail.



> I failed (and I say this with great sadness) my wife because for a month, I would come home and just watch television. I would still conversate with her, be loving (to a lesser degree than now), pay attention to her and everything a husband, lover, friend and ally should do.


First, I GUARANTEE this took more than a MONTH to come about. You may have been neglectful for a month or so - but my guess is that you ASSUMING what upset her. There was much more going on.

You need the REAL story from her - something she is not likely to give you. Can you imagine how scared she must be to tell you that you were hurting her? What reaction can she expect from you? 

Second, you say you did all these perfect things: you were EVERYTHING a husband, lover, friend and ally could be - and....

...you were less loving then than you are NOW?

Good GOD man - if you were even less loving then - no WONDER she had an affair! She's bound to have one NOW with all the 'love' you are showering on her! 

What is HER version of this story? Here's the kicker - you can't ask her! With all you've put her through - she'll likely tell you you were absolutely perfect -even though she knows that isn't true! Yes, she'll lie to please you. 

You've put yourself into a very bad place! My guess is that the REAL story - the truth that she is NOT going to give you is that you were LESS than all of the things you say you did so well. 

That affair happened because SOMETHING wasn't going well. And I'll bet you she tried to bring it up for quite a while - and then, one day - she started talking to this guy at work...and things started toward the affair. 

Until you can build a rapport with her that does NOT require you driving her to tears to glean another nugget from her to hurt you (thereby justifying another Angry Outburst from you!) 

And that requires BACKING OFF the third degree and instead doing some positive owrk for a few days.



> She lied to me constantly for nine months.


This is normal behavior from someone who had an affair and doesn't want their spouse to find out....Every betrayed spouse faces that same realization - nothing new. You aren't in any different boat from any number of other people.



> It's when I finally looked over the context of the messages, I knew she has been lying the whole time and I told her I wanted an immediate divorce. She broke down and admitted that the sex only happened once.


*So why are you NOT divorced? *That makes no sense! You want an immediate divorce, and yet you stay with her, trying to get her to describe her affair to you! Why? 

Just divorce her! Wait - you didn't mean it???

This is pretty much exactly what I mean when I point out that what you are doing is 'emotionally' abusing her. You had NO intention of divorcing her. You used it as a weapon to create a fear response in her to get her to tell you something you wanted her tell you. And, true to form, she told you a bare minimum - just enough to stop the threats, but not enough to cause more danger for her. 

You LIED to her to get her to admit something! If you DIDN'T lie - why are you still married? This is certainly not 'immediate!'

Either divorce her, or get down on your knees and apologize to her that you would stoop to such a tactless and hurtful device. It might surprise you to see the response from that action!



> the truth is I don't have evidence that it happened more than once. But try to understand how I feel PLEASE AS THIS HURTS SO MUCH !


I DO understand. _I've been cheated on before. _It DOES hurt. It's one of the worse feelings in the world! But that pain does NOT excuse you from acting 100% of the time with love toward your wife. It does not justify you causing her any pain. It is YOUR pain, YOU deal with it. And you will. It will pass, and you will be stronger for it.

In the meantime, you have a relationship to save.

And the number of times is IRRELEVANT! Absou-frikkin-lutely _irrelevant._ What happened was an AFFAIR. _That's_ ALL you need to know! All the other information is good story filler, but the important detail is that an AFFAIR occurred. Plain and simple.

And from that fact, you may deduce that SOMETHING was amiss, such that your wife found someone else filling a need that should have been filled by you. Instead of coming to you with the problem, she went elsewhere. She did something wrong. And you need to fix the marriage so that this is unlikely to happen again. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.



> I do not believe that in forgiving also comes forgetting. No. We must work through this and I want my wife. I need my wife. I love my wife. I realize she now has 2 sides to her, and the side that wants me as her husband is getting stronger. With that said, I am not trying to destroy that at all.


Just to point out the obvious: very few people forget major things that happen in their lives. Forgiveness is a choice you make to treat a past action as just that - PAST. And you look at what caused the entire scenario to occur - and you work together to CHANGE your relationship so that whatever caused it is MISSING.



> I too want this to go away, I honestly do. But only through honesty, respect, lots of love, patience and understanding. I am willing to give all of those attributes and much more if need be, but I deserve the truth to come out.


And I am telling you that if you WANT the truth - you will ESTABLISH all of those things FIRST. It is a mistake to withhold them at all until you beleive you've gotten enough 'truth'...

You'll lose if you take that route. My guess is that your wife has some VERY similar views of your truth and honesty that you do. My guess is that her limit was reached just about when the affair began. She chose the wrong solution to the problem - but this cannot justify you choosing another wrong solution!



> The act of having sex is not bothering anymore. The act is done and nothing can change that. But I do not want to be treated like an idiot and continue to be lied to as I have been for 9 months. The sex was more than once, and have been too many circumstances as proof. Too many times they hung out alone. This is what I am trying to get at, it's not the act of sex or an affair that is killing me. It's the denial and dishonesty and lack of action that hurts the most.


And you will NOT get openness and honesty through the use of terror, badgering, emotional abuse, meaningless threats and faked loving-kindness. 

Be genuine, trustworthy, safe, and loving. ALWAYS. Even if you don't 'feel like it (that is, don't want to.) Do it anyway. It may take a great deal of time, but you will prove to your wife that she can trust you, and she will also respond by returning the favor.

----------------
Now playing: Ultraviolet State - Daydream
via FoxyTunes


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

culinary~

My Dear Hubby asked me to take a look at this thread and give you my thoughts, and all I can say is:










Oh my goodness I almost seriously do not know where to start!

The first thing I will tell you is that I have been in your wife's shoes--I was disloyal--and I have been in YOUR shoes. I know how devastatingly painful it is to discover that your spouse has been unfaithful. But I can also say this--if I were your wife right now, I would RUN (not walk) to the nearest exit!! I mean...you'd see my back and possibly never hear from me again!

Do you want to know why? 

There is 100% no trust issue in your marriage. None. Your wife absolutely 100% can trust in the fact that if she tells you the truth, you will torture her. It's just that simple. That's why I'd leave if I were in her shoes. You have demonstrated over, and over, and over again that if she actually opens up to you at all in even the slightest way and tells you the truth...you will torture her until she is on the floor crying in a fetal position. And what's worse, you justify your actions "because it hurts so much..." 

Yeah you're right it does. But taking out your pain on her is just not justifiable in my book. Anyone who would afflict agony on someone because they are hurting is flat out abusive. Period. Was she wrong to have an affair? Absolutely 100%. Does her wrong behavior then justify you treating her abusively? *No it does not.* 

I read your posts and literally over and over my jaw DROPS. She has expressed remorse, indicated she has ended the affair, given you access to her accounts....that is more than the VAST MAJORITY of disloyals do right there! And what do you do with that kind of gift? You use it as a weapon to hurt her worse! You pile coals on her head! Here's what she learns from that: Being open with him = using it against me. 

You say there are trust issues in this marriage? I disagree--she has learned to trust you. She trusts that if she tells the truth, you will freak out and scream at her. She trusts that if YOU are hurting, you do not even care about her at all. She trusts that if she is vulnerable around you like she would be with a friend who actually cares about her, you will attack that little bit of openness like jabbing a sword into her one tender spot. You say you were a very little bit neglectful maybe for a month... but here in front of the forum you are abusing her emotionally and mentally! Believe me when I say that tormenting and persecuting her is not going to build ANYTHING in this marriage other than trust...trust that if she softens her heart and lets down her guard even a little bit, you will pounce and tear her to shreds! 

For your own good and the good of your marriage, I'm telling you right now you better stop being the cause of HER pain or you will lose her! Hey I believe in the covenant of marriage I would advise her to leave right now until you had been through a year of anger management! Yes, *it's *THAT* serious* and your marriage is hanging by a thread if you don't start getting it together.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

i dont see what i did wrong please help. i have been kind and gentle to her, i have been patient and everything. I have always tre&ted her with respect and kindness and love. if the the truth comes out i will accept and move on and make my marriage stronger. what did i do? yes i am mad and hurting, how am i supposed tpo feel. i have never been on this road it's a shocker. all i ask is for help and i am told i am abusing her. damn so tell me what to do i have no idea i am all screwed by this. **** i am willing to listen and learn. i admit that i have been angry and pushing for info but i just want the truth
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

please help i am really screwed up. i just know what to do. God, i really love her never treated her like this. i dont want to and i have been really kind to her for the past week and will continue to do so. please understand i dont want to huet her but a part of me wants to lash out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> i dont see what i did wrong please help.


It's kinda difficult to tell what happened - that's a place where the two of you will have to sit down and talk - that's why I suggested the Emotional Needs Questionnaire and the Love Busters Questionnaire - my guess is if you make it a very safe place to talk -she would really enjoy doing those with you...

Culinary - I have to tell you - these last two posts of yours tore my heart out. I am not a very emotional guy.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

culinary1972 said:


> please help i am really screwed up. i just know what to do. God, i really love her never treated her like this. i dont want to and i have been really kind to her for the past week and will continue to do so. please understand i dont want to huet her but a part of me wants to lash out


Okay I do understand that you want to lash out. If you must know, when I got "the proof" in my hand that my exH had been to the hotel with his Wistress, I walked calmly over to his office, slapped him across the face, and then sat down outside the office to wait for the police officers to come arrest me!  Yeah no kidding! We **all** go temporarily insane--that's why they called 'em "crimes of passion" because it's recognizable that you sort of lose your mind. But it's not cool for you to take out YOUR pain on her. Does that make sense? We'll help you find a way to get it out that does not involve hurting her worse? Okay?

For tonight, I'd suggest talking here to us -OR- doing some hobby you have that you find extremely relaxing. If you think you have it in you to be gentle, you can apologize to your wife and say that you realize now that you treated her SO harshly and that you temporarily lost your mind. Tell her it's not an excuse but that you hoped she'd understand. Then tell her for now...for tonight...you might take a little break just to sort of "get over it" and try to do better.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

i did what u suggested. i am trying to do what it takes and willing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Okay WHEW--good. For tonight your only assignment is to do things that help you chill out, like watch a comedienne, take a walk, pray, write in a journal...something like that. I used to find it helpful to get 8 1/2" x 11" lined paper, write pages and pages of yelling and screaming exactly what was in my head (on the paper only), then burning the paper like a ceremony and saying to myself that as the paper went up in smoke, so did all the hurt and anger I had written. That way it was released but I also "let go of it."

I'm not sure what works for you, but as long as it's not tormenting your wife, do that and try to help settle yourself. We can talk more in the morning and we're west coast but we'll be here okay? You can count on it.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

i wuill watch robot chicken and then tey to write what i an feeling. i did not realize how screwed up i am. i will analyze the tornado damage tomorrow from the storms last week in oklahoma. i really miss her right now. i have never been abuisive to anyone in my life. but i must confess that there is a part of me that wants to lash out and even considered vengeance in the sense of having sex with someone else. i will not act out these feelings buit i wont lie to u they exist. why do we have such a yearning and almost desire to know everything?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Woo!!! Robot Chicken!!! Everyone should watch that! And Venture Brothers. It's good to get a great belly laugh in on occasion!!!!

I am pretty sure everyone gets those yearnings - it's part of natural human nature. A sign of maturity is to rise above them and act deliberately - especially when things seem the hardest. That's the true test of character - and the definition of a responsible human being.

My thoughts are with you tonight.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

I want to thank everyone for the support. I must admit that I did not know that I had it in me to be so cold, calculating, vengeful, destructive, and much more. That is a part of me that I thought was long gone. I didn't realize that all i was doing by hounding her with questions and threats was ultimately being abusive.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

I guess what I am feeling right now is something I don't want to admit. I am so afraid that this will happen again. It's like a part of me wants her to admit the truth so that we can all start over again, and I can give her back the trust that I so desperately want to give again. 

It hurts so much that I feel betrayed by my best friend, my wife. I know that I am guilty also and admit it and want to work on this. But God it hurts alot, especially to know that she hides the truth and now I know that the truth is being hidden out of fear. And that's not what I want, for her to live in fear of my reactions or anything else.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

Ok, i think I did the right thing. I called her and was being my normal self. I asked about her day and really listened to her. I made a few suggestions about her work, and real basic stuff. Then all of a sudden, while I was listening to her words and voice, the visual images began. The anger began to build up inside of. I felt the urge and need to lash out again with guilt trips, questions, and accusations. BUT, I held back everything. I did have to end the conversation as the emotions started to get stronger. I told her that I wished her a good night and that I loved her. Also that I needed a little break, but that we are going to keep the communication line open. She said she understood what I was going through and respect it. 

I guess that this is the first time that I am being sincere and loving and not faking it. I must admit that the want and desire to lash out are very very strong right now. I will be more mature and process them out in a more productive way. Also, man I can't stop the chain smoking. I really want to quit, and that was my plan in coming to oklahoma, but wow the desire to smoke one after another is strong. I guess it's better than getting screwed up by alcohol.

I really am not a bad guy. I have alot of great personality traits and am very proud of my accomplishments in this life. Several traits that I do not want to add to my banner of traits and accomplishments is that I am a cold-hearted, calculating, vengeful S.O.B.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

culinary1972 said:


> I guess what I am feeling right now is something I don't want to admit. I am so afraid that this will happen again. It's like a part of me wants her to admit the truth so that we can all start over again, and I can give her back the trust that I so desperately want to give again.
> 
> It hurts so much that I feel betrayed by my best friend, my wife. I know that I am guilty also and admit it and want to work on this. But God it hurts alot, especially to know that she hides the truth and now I know that the truth is being hidden out of fear. And that's not what I want, for her to live in fear of my reactions or anything else.


 Sit her down and read this out loud to her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

culinary1972 said:


> Ok, i think I did the right thing. I called her and was being my normal self. I asked about her day and really listened to her. I made a few suggestions about her work, and real basic stuff. Then all of a sudden, while I was listening to her words and voice, the visual images began. The anger began to build up inside of. I felt the urge and need to lash out again with guilt trips, questions, and accusations. BUT, I held back everything. I did have to end the conversation as the emotions started to get stronger. I told her that I wished her a good night and that I loved her. Also that I needed a little break, but that we are going to keep the communication line open. She said she understood what I was going through and respect it.
> 
> I guess that this is the first time that I am being sincere and loving and not faking it. I must admit that the want and desire to lash out are very very strong right now. I will be more mature and process them out in a more productive way. Also, man I can't stop the chain smoking. I really want to quit, and that was my plan in coming to oklahoma, but wow the desire to smoke one after another is strong. I guess it's better than getting screwed up by alcohol.
> 
> I really am not a bad guy. I have alot of great personality traits and am very proud of my accomplishments in this life. Several traits that I do not want to add to my banner of traits and accomplishments is that I am a cold-hearted, calculating, vengeful S.O.B.


Or, better yet, find a good psychologist in your area and set up a weekly appointment. For yourself.

So you can take that anger and give it the doctor and let HIM show you how to deal with it without ruining your life.


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

I know what you mean about the anger building up. I am having a hard time with that myself, not lashing out when my H continues to lie about the affair. A few days ago I slipped and asked him to just stop the lying so we could try to save our marriage before it was too late. I said we can not do anything because there were 3 people in our marriage. Any time I bring up the affair he shuts down and turns cold. I cant seem to stop bringing up the affair even when he responds favorable to me, I tend to see that as an opening to try and work things out. I think he also fears my response if he tells me the truth- I tend to be very reactive to things I don't want to hear and do not take the time to think before I respond.

Tanelornpete/ Affaircare- I find your advice helpful. I did not initiate the separation. He left, I did not see it coming. I did not give him space and begged him to return, using guilt trips and pushing for him to make a decision. After 4 months I figured out/found out he was having an affair. confronted it , presented my proof, he denied it and said he wanted a divorce and stopped giving any support to my children and I. I ended up starting the legal process due to the lack of financial support and the effect the other woman was having on my children- he moved in with her and hid it from me, my children told me and they quickly picked up on their relationship . He continues to deny the affair, saying she is just his "roommate". Even my young children are not fooled. He refuses to accept the negative effect this woman has had on our children, despite hearing this from their therapist.I'm not sure what you mean about Plan A and B and if I can even do those now. The past 3 months I have reflected a lot about what went wrong and I truly beleive I know what happened and what I would need to work on, but it appears I will not get the chance . I am trying to show him changes I have already made, he has noticed and I apologized to him for the mistakes I made. He had no response to it . I am doing well with no contact except when it concerns the children, but I sometimes slip when he is irritable and cold with me for no reason( it is our pattern, and I beleive his way of justifing his behaviors because I respond by being irritable and cold back at him). I know there are many issues to be addressed if we ever get to that point. Until he admits the affair and ends it, nothing can happen and I am fully aware this may never happen now. I guess I am just trying to figure out if there is anything else I should do other than focusing on myself and children and giving him space. I realize I really do love him and want to fight for my marriage. Any advice?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cmf, nothing is going to matter as long as he still has the OW. If you are trying to get him back, you'll have to focus on her for now, not him.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

cmf, I wish that I can say the right words right now to help you out, it's just that my mind is worse than a bowl of oatmeal. I now understand that lashing out with accusations, and guilt trips is destructive and will not solve anything. I accept and will put in practice the advice given to me these past few days, but even though I am a guilty party of this,,,,,I am still a victim as are you in your situation. 

Even though I deeply love my wife, this morning I started to feel the urge to RUN LIKE HELL! Regardless of the line of work I am in, I am starting to feel afraid. I really want this to work....but I can't deny the new emotions that are coming up.

IT'S NOT ****ING FAIR AT ALL WHAT IS HAPPENING. I DON'T DESERVE THIS ROLLERCOASTER OF EMOTIONS THAT I AM GOING THROUGH.ONE MOMENT I AM WRAPPED UP IN WORK HAPPY AS A CLAM, AND THE NEXT MOMENT I AM GETTING VISUAL IMAGES IN MY HEAD, THEN ANGER HURT AND PAIN ALL AT ONCE. IT'S JUST NOT FAIR. I WAS ALWAYS GOOD TO HER. ****, THE ONLY REASON I AM LASHING OUT IS BECAUSE THE EMOTIONS ARE DRIVING ME INSANE. THIS HURTS SO ****ING MUCH........IT'S JUST NOT FAIR. IRREGARDLESS OF THE FACT THAT THERE WERE SOME PROBLEMS BEFORE THE AFFAIR. THE LIES, THE DECEIPT, THE COVERING UP, THE LIES AND DENIAL AFTER THE FACT AND HER BEHAVIOR EVEN AFTER THE AFFAIR ENDED IS NOT RIGHT, AND I DON'T SEE THE JUSTIFICATION. 
*
no I will not let my emotions get to me when i communicate with her, that is why i am taking a break at this time. *


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

Sounds like the best thing to do. No contact really helped me gain perspective and let go of some of my anger( especially at the other woman). Just know that our cheating spouses also have issues and that is why we can't make sense of what they are doing. We all have different morals , values and upbringings that influence how we deal with things. I'm beginning to think I don't really know the man I have been married to for 11 years.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

CMF, 

I read your story and it is giving me alot of strength. Thanks for sharing. I was in your husband's shoes in a sense. I also had to bankrupt a business that I owned and withdrew alot of my feelings. I am now recognizing that. Also there was a time she became more of a mother than a wife.


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

Too bad it took our marriages falling apart to realize what happened. My husband is just nowhere near ready to gain any perspective ,he is still so focused on his affair. I am independent and will have to move on for the sake of my children and he will be the one to lose out as he will continue to make the same mistakes in every relationship he has. It still is hard to let go for me.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

I guess I will be honest and list what transpired before the affair.

I was married before to a wonderful woman and had an affair with my current wife. Ended leaving my ex wife for the current

I was attempting to open several businesses in the past and they all failed so I withdrew

my wife is a clean freak, and i forget to clean the house they she wants. not that i purposely do so, I have ADHD (attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder). I am not justifying.

My wife has an adventurous spirit, and it was like a year and a half we barely went out to have fun due to financial difficulties

I lied about our financial situation alot.

My wife came from another country, and although she is fluent in english, she could not make any friends in our city for 3 years and was all alone. She demanded all my attention, all of it for those 3 years as she was getting more and more lonely and depressed.

Believe this or not, during those several years, we only had sex no more than 5 times a year. I would always try to initiate with gentleness and passion. I would always ask her what she needed and she stated that a true man would always know how to satisfy a woman, not ask. But before she came to this country, I would fly many times to see her and the passion and sex was so intense. After 2 years of her not wanting me and no desire, i just gave up as i did not know what to do.

When she arrived here, she had family in our city including 4 cousins that were like sisters. They all abandoned her over a big fight that included their non-approval of me. 

She says she loves me more deeply than ever before, and wants to have a future and children with me. I believe her, and want this to work. But understand what I stated before, even though there were alot of problems before the affair, it's still not right nor is it justified. Nor are my rollercoaster of emotions that are driving me insane. Again, I state to all of you, the emotional abuse has and will stop. I just have such a yearning for the truth


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The truth will come when she feels safe.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

I now understand her pain and fear. I will let her feel safe and will wait and treat her with respect.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

I texted her via my phone. I told her that I love her immensely, that I will stop badgering her and stop the abuse. I told her I now understand everything, that i failed her as a husband in many aspects. That I understood that she had to be a mother to me for a long time. That I was dishonest with her many times about finances. That I was not the man that I had promised to be. 

Also, that I understood that I have a heavy part in this affair and I accept my responsibility. That I will make the changes. I said that I understood that she found another man to satisfy her needs as a woman, and that I truly forgive her, and asked forgiveness for not being there for her when she needed me. 

I said that I understood the reasons for her dishonesty. That she is afraid of my emotions, my abuse, and the fear of me leaving her. I told her that I will never leave her no matter how much the truth hurts. That I will wait for her to open up to me when she is safe, and that I will be there for her.

She replied "Honest about what?", I replied that for now let's focus on our day, not think of this conversation right now, and that I love her. 

I SWEAR THIS WAS NOT A TACTIC. I JUST WANTED HER TO KNOW THAT I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING AND I FORGIVE AND THAT I WILL PROVIDE HER THE SAFETY SHE NEEDS THAT I WILL NOT LEAVE.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

damn this forum is getting so addicting. LOL, i can't finish my work project but this is damn healthy for me. Again many thanks to everyone who has responded with advice or at the least taken the time to read my story. Sorry for all of my postings, just please understand I am alone on the road with no one to talk to, and i just want to vent in a healthy manner instead of being abusive to my wife.

What is bothering me is after everything i said with honesty, no tactfullness, and true sincerity, she still responded with "honest about what?"

hmmm let me see........
1. that she had a conflict of leaving me or leaving him

2. she was in love with him or at the least had very very deep feelings, i saw the text messages but she kept them very indirect and vague but you can read between the lines that she was in love

3. when i caught her in september, after i talked to the both of them, we had a weird experience. I tried to romance her with flowers and candles, had a great dinner prepared and laid her down in bed to make love. All she did was go straight to sleep. I cried so much that night, and the next day, I begged her to tell me what i can do to make everything right. She said she talked to her best friend and the both of them wanted to take a vacation together as they used to. I was like great, where do you want to go, Italy, France, Mexico,,,,,,,,anywhere you want. I used to own a travel agency and still have credentials so I can get the both of you the best discount. What she said made my jaw just drop to the ground. She said "me and my best friend (woman) want to go to puerto rico". I literally just broke down, and the reason is that the other man is from puerto rico and was always talking about wanting to go back and his love for his home. Right there i knew there was a plan. I confirmed this later that there was a plan.

4. That there was more than one time that sex was involved. I don't want to know the number as that will just destroy me, but i know that there are many more times.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I SWEAR THIS WAS NOT A TACTIC. I JUST WANTED HER TO KNOW THAT I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING AND I FORGIVE AND THAT I WILL PROVIDE HER THE SAFETY SHE NEEDS THAT I WILL NOT LEAVE.


No, this is not a 'tactic' - it is the right thing to do - you were honest with her. 

And this is a great place to vent - just do me a favor - when you do want to vent, make sure you say something like 'this is a vent' before you go into it! 

As for all your points above - 

This was an affair. That means that emotions were involved. But this does not mean she was any more 'in love' with him than she is with you. 

The notion we call 'in love' is a mix of emotions. Emotions are the things you experience AFTER a previous thought. Something happens, you process it, and then respond with an emotion. 

'In Love' is a mix of happiness, lust, pleasure, excitement, etc. There really is no 'LOVE' involved. Why? Because 'LOVE' is NOT an emotion. It is a way of acting. It's how you treat another person. 

So basically, she felt 'excitement,' 'lust,' 'curiosity,' 'pleasure,' etc. about another person. Not that this helps you much, but those same feelings can be devoted to you as easily as to him - if you are the primary person in her thoughts - and those thoughts result in POSITIVE, rather than NEGATIVE emotions. 

If you want her back, you'll need to be in a position where thoughts of you result in positive responses. Either that, or she can do the responsible thing and realize that she made a promise to you when you married to be faithful to you.

This is also why I ALWAYS advise that the VOW is much more important that the emotions you experience about the other person. Regardless of present emotions, that vow still stands. It is NOT dependent on 'how you feel'. And your emotions can change like the wind. 

The actions of being deliberately married means that you spend your life concentrating on being the kind of person that elicits positive emotional responses in your spouse - and behind that, the REASON you do that - is because you made a vow to do so.

So, something happened in your marriage where the emotions she felt for you were slowly replaced. And she missed those feelings - and then, along comes another man - and presto! Those emotions start up again! She starts to think 'hey -THIS must be the right guy - see how I feel about him?'

You went through this once before, when you left your first wife. You have a direct knowledge of how this happened. So you can understand what's going on.

It was an affair - the number of times they had sex is as irrelevant as the number of times she asked him 'what time is it?' All that matters is that her emotions for you were lost somehow - at least to the extent that another man stirred them up. 

So you know what you need to do! End the affair, find out what happened, and then work on improvement. Everything else is just busy work, your emotions running away with you.

Keep it here on this board as venting - and go no further with it.

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Now playing: Sage Taylor - Pigment of your Imagination
via FoxyTunes


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then accept what you know, what happened, and just determine: from this day forward, do I choose her?

If you do, then THAT is your goal - not further information, not seeing a 'change' in your wife to prove that she loves you, not honesty (at this point), not gratitude...NOTHING.

Right now, she is hurting, too.

As much as you hate to think about it, SHE WAS HAPPY IN THAT AFFAIR. It was HE who made her heart pound, not you. You? You made her sad, and angry, and self-hating, and defensive. When she thought (thinks) of you, she thinks of unhappiness.

Now THAT is in your control. YOU have the power to become the husband she thought she married, and convince her that she made the right choice staying.

You SAY you accept responsibility but, honestly? I don't see it. I don't hear it. All I see is you trying to 'get' something from her. Because she has wronged you.

But guess what? YOU have wronged HER, too. If you hadn't, she wouldn't have looked elsewhere. 

Is it your fault she cheated? Of course not. But you can't force her to choose you. Or be honest with you. Or care about you.

You CAN work on yourself. Become the best man you know how (or LEARN how). Because you should, anyway. And, in the end, if she comes to trust that these changes you say you're making are real - and trust me, it will be MONTHS before she believes they are real - she will start unwrapping the protection around her heart, and let you back in. 

But it won't happen any time soon. So stop setting things up to get something in return. You'll just end up frustrated and Love Bust her to the moon and back.

For instance, you wrote her this nice email, and then you SWEAR to us that it wasn't a tactic. And yet, when you get her response, you jump all over it and tear it to bits like a rabid dog because you _didn't get the response you wanted._

Here's the biggest secret in fixing such a marriage: You GIVE because you WANT to give. You NEVER give, in order to get something back. And you WALK AWAY from those expectations and disappointments, because you were supposed to have given because you _wanted_ to give - only that.

Do you see how you're not letting go yet? Still trying to control? Give her good stuff just to get what you want, back?


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

_You SAY you accept responsibility but, honestly? I don't see it. I don't hear it. All I see is you trying to 'get' something from her. Because she has wronged you._

I do accept responsibility. I told her in the message i sent to her and I am accepting it. I want to change myself not only for her but for me as well. What more can I say? I told her that I failed her as a husband. That I lied to her about finances. I did not give her the attention she deserves. I apologized and understand her actions. Do you have any idea how hard this is, to not only forgive but also understand the reasons and admit them? To know and accept that I am also responsible for this

_But guess what? YOU have wronged HER, too. If you hadn't, she wouldn't have looked elsewhere. _

Please look at the posts that I made before. I did wrong her. I know, I accept, and I want to make sure this does not arise again. I told her all of this.

_Is it your fault she cheated? Of course not. But you can't force her to choose you. Or be honest with you. Or care about you._

I understand that i can't force her to choose or be honest with me. She states that she loves me, wants a future, and make this better than before. That is why I am getting mixed emotions 


_But it won't happen any time soon. So stop setting things up to get something in return. You'll just end up frustrated and Love Bust her to the moon and back.

For instance, you wrote her this nice email, and then you SWEAR to us that it wasn't a tactic. And yet, when you get her response, you jump all over it and tear it to bits like a rabid dog because you didn't get the response you wanted._

It's the truth, it was not a tactic at all. I was real honest with her about my guilt in this affair. That I love her, I apologize for my abusive behavior, that I will stand by her, that I understood why the affair started, and that I understood her dishonesty with me all this time was a result of fear of my emotions, my lashing out, and the fear of me walking out. I stated that I will wait for her when she is ready. What more can I say?????????

I was not expecting for her to all of a sudden just open up. I was and am not. It just kind of hit me a little when she gave told me "honest about what"? I mean how am i supposed to take that? And when I came back here to vent it's cause I am trying to release all of these mixed emotions I am going through. Yes her response made me angry, not cause I was expecting her to be open, what upset me was again the denial

_Do you see how you're not letting go yet? Still trying to control? Give her good stuff just to get what you want, back?[/_QUOTE]

I am not trying to control the situation. I am being as humble as possible and admitting my mistakes, understanding how they are responsible, in part, for the affair, and letting her know. I am not even a control freak nor care to control other people. That is not the kind of person I am


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

I am a lot like you. I also recently admitted I had fault in the marriage falling apart, I listed what I had done and apologized. That was big for me . One of his complaints was that I took no blame. I said I did it with no expectations, but was crushed with the lack of response. I dont have a lot of patience, I work in social services and I am a "fixer". I can not fix what is happening now and it is a foreign feeling for me , so I understand what you are going through. I'm pretty stubborn too. I would recommend trying to have as little contact as possible right now, you might be suffocating her. When you back off, she may start to seek you out. Just a thought.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> It just kind of hit me a little when she gave told me "honest about what"? I mean how am i supposed to take that? And when I came back here to vent it's cause I am trying to release all of these mixed emotions I am going through. Yes her response made me angry, not cause I was expecting her to be open, what upset me was again the denial


Here's the point. She is in withdrawal. From you, from him, from everything. Right now all she is doing is protecting herself.

You're hurting, you're trying. But she has had umpteen years of hurting from whatever it is that hurt her with you. Just because you send her a nice note and take responsibility, psychologically it's impossible for her to just turn off the hurt and turn on the compassion.

The compassion for you will have to come gradually. 

You ask how are you supposed to take that?

The answer is: Do you want your wife back?

In other words, this is NOT about YOU right now. It's about proving to her that you are safe and trustworthy. Right now, it doesn't MATTER how you take it, because it is YOU who is trying to convince HER to choose you. 

Right now, you get to bite your tongue, swallow your pride, and work your butt off to learn how to impress her. 

It sucks, but that's what betrayed spouses are stuck with. For the foreseeable future, you're supposed to 'take it' like a guy who is walking a tightrope to get his wife back.

Later, once she feels invested in you again, _then_ you can start opening up and being honest about how she hurts you. Right now, _she doesn't care._


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

Yes I want my wife back. and yes i will prove to her that I am safe and trustworthy.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

nothing matters anymore. I am now moving closer to divorcing my wife more than ever before. I have left her alone, but last friday I had enough and started asking for truth again. She started to disclose just a little bit of information and I thanked her for it though I was upset. I told her that I loved her and wanted to talk to her more that night after she got off work in which she agreed. Generally speaking we had a pretty good conversation. 

That night about an hour after she got off work, she said she is going out with a friend to some kind of wedding reception with a friend from work (at 12:30 at night cause she gets off work at 12). I said thats fine, but do me the favor and at least text me when you get home so I know your ok. The next morning I did not see a text so I kind of got upset. I called her like 2 or 3 times and she did not answer. She finally called me back and I said why did you not text me like you agreed to. I said I would call her back when I had time since I was headed to work. 

That afternoon, I spoke to her and very patiently said, I am not upset but I was worried that you did not text me like you said. I asked what happened and she said that she went to the wedding reception with her friend, had a few drink, danced, it got boring and at 1:30 in the morning she and her friend (another woman) decided to go to a bar. I got upset but did not let her hear it in my voice. I said, remember i am trying to trust you again, and all I asked was for a text to let me know you were ok.

her mother finally arrived sunday morning, and my wife went to work. I talked to her mom for a very long time, going over all of the details. I said how this man had influence over her and there is just something wrong with her story, and just on and on. The mother agreed there is something wrong with her story and something is not right and that she will get to the bottom of this. 

That night, my wife called and was upset that I told her mom these things. That I keep accusing her of activities and having a ton of suspicion. I said well you lied to me for 9 months and I am trying to trust you again, but your story (about the affair) does not make sense. She said that she was upset that I was talking about my story in this forum (she does not know the website address) and that people in this forum were putting bad ideas in my head. That I keep digging for more information that is not there. She then said to me that her mom was bothered that I was getting advice from online forums, that people here are negative.

I sent an email to her mom thinking my wife was bluffing about her mom saying those things. I mean come on, her mom was agreeing with me about everything. I was really hoping that her mom would respond to my email and she did but in the email she said that if i truly loved her daughter, i must realize that love is unconditional and i must drop everything. That going to online forums is unhealthy, and if i supposedly loved her daughter, I would try to fix everything in a more healthy way. That I am just picking at new character flaws regarding my wife everyday, which is not the truth. I tried explaining in my original email about the situation where she went to the reception and then the bar. That I was trying to trust her. All the mother could say was that I was trying to destroy the marriage.

i am shocked, hurt, and feel like I was stabbed in the heart. I do not believe her story about one time only. I do not believe anything now. Last friday she even went so far to tell me that when I discovered evidence last year, she was so desperate and anxious that her lover even offered her drugs like anti anxiety medication. And when I asked her about the hundreds of minutes spent talking and text messages sent back and forth to each other after I told the both of them to stop, she said well I had no one to talk to about your discovery and I was lonely so he was the only who would listen. I mean come on...........

I even tried going to marriage builders about my story, and everyone is saying the time for total exposure is now. This includes the man's fiancee, the job, friends everything. I am not prepared to do that. I am just so tired of everything. I just keep trying and trying and trying to fix this marriage. I have followed everyone's advice here and yet nothing. Even her mom is now backing her up.

divorce or seperation is seeming like the only option i have left. this really hurts as I am trying so hard. Please help me.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Your self esteem is gone. She continues to gaslight you. You need to dump her. Why would you allow her to abuse you like this. Chasing her only makes her feel like she can continue to screw around. Like she did the last Friday. Dude, you need to man up. She doesn't like you getting advice here because it impedes her cake eating. Find someone who won't cheat. Cancel her access to all financial accounts, credit cards and such. Move on.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

please help me. this is the first time in my life that i feel so weak and helpless. my heart tells me i am being abused even though her and her mother continue to say that she loves me, repents for her actions and so forth. i s badly want this to work but now i wonder if i am being codependent. why did she d this to me last friday? was it wrong to ask for a simple text saying she got home ok? is it wrong what she did? what do i do now? i apologize for seeming so weak and pathetic, i just am in love with her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

First thing: realize that most of what you are going through is self pity. Everyone experiences that once in a while - it's a normal thing, but while it is happening, you won't be able to do anything else. In order to get on with your life, to work toward recovery, you'll have to stop feeling so sorry for you.

One way to do that is to ask yourself: 'What's the WORST thing that could happen' - and then imagine how life would proceed under that situation. My guess is, the worst that could happen is that you and your wife divorce.

So - what would be the outcome? How did you survive before you met her?

Here is one big thing to keep in mind: and an aspect of marriage that you'll have to change if you want to keep your marriage. You and your wife met in an affair. You left your (now ex) wife for her. Here's the trouble: affairs are essentially a fantasy - that is, the new person you meet seems to have all of the qualities you like and none you dislike. They are everything you ever wanted, and your spouse is everything you dislike. A person in the midst of an affair uses all kinds of tactics to justify the affair - magnifying the wonderful qualities of their lover, magnifying the undesirable qualities of their spouse, minimizing all the bad qualities of the lover, and minimizing all the good qualities of their spouse. The fantasy is that if only the spouse were gone, life would be wonderful and everything would be shiny, magic, marvelous, happy, and trouble free.

So the marriage ends.....like yours did. And the affair becomes a genuine relationship. All of the sudden reality sets in and all those qualities that were modified become less and less distorted. The new partner all of the sudden isn't all they seemed to be.

Starting a relationship out of this kind of fantasy tends to cause enormous problems fairly quickly. And if the people involved in the relationship do not change how they view the relationship it will most likely end in disaster - with one or both looking for a way out. In your wife's case, for example, it is entirely possible that how your relationship began is a good way to find another. She may not even see that the troubles she faces are the RESULT of the means by which she gained this relationship. 

You may not either! This is where it becomes very important to understand the idea of commitment. An affair happens because the partners in it have placed personal desires in a position of higher priority than the original commitment to the marriage. If the commitment remained the number one priority, both partners would be constrained by the restrictions and conditions of the marriage vows to actually work on the marriage, rather than look for easy outs every time something they want isn't happening on their time frame. 

Your mother in law is partially right: _love_ is unconditional - love is an ACTIVE choice you make to treat someone with respect, honor, and kindness, etc. This choice is not made based upon the person performing certain acts in order for you to reward them with love. Sometimes you act with love even when they are doing absolutely horrible things.

Love may be unconditional - but _marriage_ is NOT. There ARE conditions to a marriage commitment, including remaining faithful. 

By definition, an affair is unfaithfulness - and _faithfulness_ is defined as "Steadfast affection or allegiance--loyalty; firmness in adherence to promises or in observance of duty." The definition of loyal is - "faithful to a private person to whom fidelity is due."

So if your wife turns to someone else for anything that you should and can be providing, she is being unfaithful. Her affair MAY be over - but has her faithfulness returned?

Now for practicals: Don't expect her mom to take your side - that's her daughter you are talking about! And, your wife is going to do all she can to justify her actions. Remember that this is the pattern for your entire relationship: you both used these tactics when you first met. 

If you've been on Marriage Builders, you must certainly be aware of the Love Busters. When your wife does NOT call you, she is engaging in some very disrespectful behavior.

Try this: 

Tell her that when she did not send you the text message or answer your calls, you thought that she must care so little about you that you don't even show up on her radar - just about anything else is more important. And that makes you feel very hurt and sad. So you respectfully request that next time she let you know how she is so that you can quit worrying.

That method is using a direct method - called WTFS - 

*W*hen you do 'X'
I *T*hink (insert what you THINK here...)
And I *F*eel (emotion here...)
*S*o - I respectfully request....(insert solution here...)

Try to get into a habit of using that....

So now:



> her mother continue to say that she loves me, repents for her actions and so forth.


That may well be. If so, your wife will be willing to do whatever it takes to work on your marriage. Ask her if she is. Tell her YOU ARE! Tell her you want to start things over, work from ground zero to build up what the storm tore apart. Tell her you love her, and that you need her help to fix the marriage.

Let us know how that works out...

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Now playing: Marillion - An Accidental Man
via FoxyTunes


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

i tried to talk to her. i asked her what u said, if she is willing to do what it takes, that i love her all she could say was she was doing everything possible but that whatever she says i make ita big deal of everything. That all i pick at are mistakes. not true. she says she just wants to talk to me when everything is ok and i am ok. and not to call her or her mom anymore if we are both wrong. i told her that love is unconditional but not marriage. she says see me and my mom are wrong over everything, right? i told her how it hurt me about friday night and what she did and please respect me by doing what i asked. she said again u see everything i do is wrong, and u told me not to bother u since u were sleeping. i said thats not true i asked u to please text me. she said what do u think i was sleeping with another man? i said no i just wanted to know u were ok. i finally just said goodbye real loud and huing up. please help
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're no fun any more. She's looking for yet another guy who will give her 'fun' and not make her be a responsible adult. Are you sure that's the kind of person you want?


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

she texted me saying she was sorry and that all she is trying to do is love me and i won't let her. i have not responded as i am upset and atill at work. what am i doing wrong? i followed the advice given and i feel like my wife and mom are trying to brainwash me. i really feel screwed up in the head and everything is surreal. she is notthe person i used to know
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

You are doing fine. Just remember to stay calm when you talk to your wife.

Now - I wanted to point out something:

Your wife repeated something several times - did you hear what she said? In essence, what she repeated was that it seems to her that you think everything she says is wrong:

"...all i pick at are mistakes......says see me and my mom are wrong over everything, right?......she said again u see everything i do is wrong......"

Now all of this may or may not be true - but there's something important you are missing here: she is telling you that this is how you come across - that no matter what she does, you find fault, point out how wrong she is, let her know her mistakes, etc...Right or wrong, as long as this is how she perceives what you are saying, you won't get anywhere.

Here's a description of what is happening: 

Fault Finder--by definition this is a person who makes a practice of discovering the faults of their spouse and censuring them; a scold; one who is given to petty criticism and constant complaint. Usually the fault-finder tells their spouse what they *should* be doing and sends the message to their spouse that not only do they disagree with what you're doing but also you didn't meet their standard. Fault-finders often say "You should have known..." or will counter attack if they feel criticized.​
Now I'm guessing you don't do this intentionally - and I am also pretty sure your wife does not want to talk about her faults at all (most people don't.)

However, its something that you need to work on - its a style of communication that tends to cause more trouble than it solves. If she does bring it up again, try this instead:

Say something like 'it sounds like I am never satisfied with anything you do!' - and let her do the talking about it. Don't defend yourself - even if you know without a doubt that she is wrong. There will be time later for things to become more clear. If you feel like fighting, let her know that you are feeling upset - and you need to take a break and think about what she is saying.

Just keep reflecting it back to her - 'it sounds like I come across as a complete jerk... etc...'

Basically what this will do is begin to create a safer environment between you two -- one that gives her the safety she needs to be truthful. One that builds a stronger relationship. 


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Now playing: 3rd Force - Inside the Rhythm
via FoxyTunes


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I were you, I would (1) promise to never say anything negative to her again unless it's about CHEATING, and (2) make yourself less available. Get a life. Show her that you won't crumble and die if she doesn't jump back home to you, but that you would LIKE her to.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

i am trying so hard. i have not been attacking her or demanding the truth except friday when i had enough. i have treatedher right. I REALLY want to start over but how do u do that when she just lies and lies. when my friends are constantly elling me to let her go cause it's hurting them that a good friendis in pain and does not deserve this ****. i have tried everythingto repair this marriage. people say, and i respect their comments, that i was abusing her. i am the one going through this immature behavior.

i am not trying to play the victim, but i can't even think straight
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe you should listen to everyone.

One thing I always say to people who seem to be butting their head against the wall (something my husband does a lot) is: If 99 out of 100 people in a room believe one thing, and the 100th person believes something else, isn't it a pretty sure bet that the 99 people are probably right?

Maybe they are all telling you this because they see the 'real' her and you refuse to see it.


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

Update to everyone reading my thread and most importantly to those who have been my rock and foundation.

I had a glass of red wine (LOL just one!) and sent her a long message. I told her how much I loved her and my desire for my future to be with her and that I really want to start a family with her. I let my heart just completely open up and said many beautiful and romantic comments to her. I then said because I love her so much, I don't want to torture her anymore with my negativity. That at this time, we are now officially seperated. Not just by distance, as I am working out of town, but in every sense of the word. I told her that now we are going to work on ourselves.

I said that for now I want to look at everything (regarding our relationship) beginning in the past, the present, and the possible future. That we need to both recover from our mistakes, and pain. I need to see if my future is going to be with her or not, and when I am ready to make that decision, I will follow through with it. Also, that she should do the same also regarding me. That what we shared together in the past was beautiful and I will always love her, but for now I must move forward with my life without her and begin to take care of myself. That when the time is right, I will return to the marriage, and that while we are seperated we should both make an effort to stay faithful to each other.

I also did say that I need her to help me in fixing this marriage, and to do whatever it takes. In the end, I also mentioned that the act of infidelity (emotional and physical) really hurts yet I am willing to move forward in fixing our marriage together. But her constant dishonesty (I caught her in another lie about something stupid over the phone before this message was sent, and she apologized) is just killing me. That when she is ready to be completely honest with me in a safe environment, I will be there for her. Also, that I am trying so hard to stop the self-pity, but it's very hard to do this when I am being lied to and I don't believe her stories.

She replied that she understands, and when will I come home. That she loves and misses me tremendously, but does not understand why I made the remark about her constant dishonesty. 

I really love her and want this to work, but for now, I need to stop the self-torture also the torture that I am giving her and the only solution I can think of is by walking away. This is now my time to recover, look at my future, and have me-time.

A great big thanks to everyone that has supported me, I am actually feeling alot better now. Please feel free to respond to this post with any comments or suggestions you may have. I HOPE I DID THE RIGHT THING


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

GL to you cul. I really do hope it works out but life moves on. And the worst thing that can happen to anyone is death IMO. As long as you keep waking up every morning, make the most of it at all times.

I'll tell you a funny story that happened to me once that will hopefully bring a small smile and laugh into your day today.

Once when I was younger (that was quite a while ago) I went out with my friend to a bar and got stupid drunk. Fell in love with a girl on the spot and at closing time was headed home with my new found love. Well, I had to pee and the bar was closed so the young lady offered to help me unzip and pee in the parking lot.

Me being stupid drunk, pushed her away and proceeded to yell at her stating that I knew how to pee and could do it by myself. I've heard stories from my friend that people got a big laugh out of that scene since the love of my life that night decided she wasn't going home with me anymore lol.

A young and very, very good looking young lady (from my friends account since I don't remember much from that night) was going to unzip my pants, pull out my friend and help me pee, then I was going to take her home and have dessert too. But all that never happened cuz I was too drunk to let her help me pee.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

One thing to keep in mind: people tend to lie to their spouses when they do not feel like they have a safe place to tell the truth (there are also other occasions when people lie...)

And this does not end instantly - no matter how hard or how much you want it to. It takes time to see that the water is safe enough. Try to be very appreciative when she tells you the truth about something - 

And ALSO....

...keep the environment safe when she tells you the truth....it would do no good for her to open up only to be laid into with all kinds of punishment, anger, or any other negative behavior....

If you do feel to upset to respond - thank her for telling you the truth and let her know you need a little while to process what she told you - and then back off and work through your own emotions by yourself.

Over time, as it becomes more apparent that more good comes from telling the truth than it does from lying, it will become a habit, and a lie will become a rarity...


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## culinary1972 (Oct 14, 2009)

So we stopped communicating since Thursday night, and I felt that true recovery was starting to begin all day Friday. Back to Thursday night, I was with some friends at work and was basically just having a great time. One friend suggested a bar where went and had a great time.
She calls me this morning and started asking me why did I go to this place and I said let me call you right back since I was still asleep. I texted her and I said I barely wasted any money (like 40 dollars) and I apologize since we are trying to save money. She said she has to admit many many times for her mistake and ask for forgiveness everytime but that with everything I do everyday since the recent revelation is breaking her heart and it’s obvious she does not have any rights. I told her that I don’t do that to her constantly in fact it has stopped. I don’t make her apologize everytime I talk to her or get her to admit her mistakes everytime we talk or communicate in some form. In fact she only admitted to the sexual part just a few times when we tried talking about the affair. That I am the bad guy treating her like absolute **** since the affair was blown open a few weeks ago. Again not true, I have treated her with well, there were a few times I got upset when I was trying to get the truth and she just lies. Well enough with that. 
I told her you do have rights you always have. I never you said you don’t, though a week ago when we were talking and she was just starting to open a little bit, I thanked her but got a little upset cause the other man gave her drugs to calm her down. Drugs like Xanax since she was freaking out last year when I discovered the emotional affair. Anyways, she got upset when I reacted over the drugs ( I didn’t blow up or anything, just got a little upset), and I told her that she does not have the right to get angry and have a defiant attitude when we are just trying to work this out and I apologize for me getting upset about the drugs but the reason I did was because her new job involves drug prevention programs within the government. 
Back to today’s conversation, I told her, I never said you don’t have rights. In fact you kind of misunderstood what I said when you first heard me the first time so I even repeated myself in Spanish and you said you understood. She said the next time we talk she is going to have a phone recorder to have proof, and I was like what is wrong with you, I never said that and you know it. I then started thinking wait a minute, she probably told her mom that. So I asked her did you tell your mom that I said you have no rights? I waited for a response and she finally responded that yes she did. I told her how could you have done that? I never said that, why would you do that. I was in shock and said I loved her but I don’t know what has gotten into her and the reason for her actions, that I didn’t know her anymore. She responded with “I don’t know you either” I could feel the tears building in me, and I said why did she do that, it really hurts. She said don’t worry about what she did, that I need to worry about making things better cause she did not come to this country to be with me and suffer.
I called her and said let me talk to your mom, in which her mother did. I told her I don’t know what my wife said to you but I swear I never told her that she does not have rights. I told her the story about when I made the comment about not having a right to get angry and be defiant. The mother said my wife never told her about never having rights so I could see that my wife lied. Then her mother said that maybe my wife misunderstood, and I said no cause I knew she misunderstood at first but I repeated several times what I meant, and that she understood. Then the mother said “I accepted you and you are a part of the family. But I will never pursue my daughter like you do. She is my daughter. I said look I never asked you to go against your daughter. I even flew you up from out of the country to be with your daughter. All I wanted was your help ‘cause I have no idea what to do and I am in love with her. The mother said, my daughter at this time needs a strong man and also to be in the arms of a strong man. I hope you are that man. You need to come home in which I said I can’t right this moment cause of my job but I will as soon as possible. Then she tells me that my dogs are really missing me. I just broke down ‘cause my dogs are like my children and I told my mother in law, very politely, I am sorry but I have to go now, we will talk later.
It just hurts so much that my wife is acting this way and continues to lie, and now is doing everything in her power to make me look like a bad guy. I don’t know what to do.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Here's the biggest part of the problem - you are still arguing with her. Stop arguing. Quit trying to prove who is right and who is wrong. Right now, that has a negative effect - it erases any progress you may have made, and starts you right back at the very beginning. 

Here's what I mean:



> ...She said she has to admit many many times for her mistake and ask for forgiveness everytime but that with everything I do everyday since the recent revelation is breaking her heart and it’s obvious she does not have any rights...


You have an open opportunity to reflect back "it's breaking your heart?" - and give her a chance to let you know what is hurting - maybe even just vent and let of some steam. You have the chance to find ways to address these issues without causing her to feel this way....and yet all you do is tell her she is wrong:



> ...I told her that I don’t do that to her constantly in fact it has stopped. I...


She told you (from an earlier post): "...she says see me and my mom are wrong over everything, right?.....she said again u see everything i do is wrong...."

You tell her she is wrong - that you don't do this - but when she points it out - you tell her she is wrong....

It's a vicious circle that needs to break before you can move on.



> I told her, I never said you don’t have rights. In fact you kind of misunderstood what I said when you first heard me the first time so I even repeated myself in Spanish and you said you understood. She said the next time we talk she is going to have a phone recorder to have proof, *and I was like what is wrong with you, I never said that and you know it.*


Again, you are correcting her, telling her that she is wrong - and discounting her. It may be that you never USED THE WORDS 'you don't have any rights' -- but it is quite clear that she feels this way. And instead of listening to her, you tell her there is something wrong with her, and that she is wrong, wrong wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong..... 

There is a point where this becomes so overwhelming to someone that they will cut you out. If you want your wife, if you love your wife, you will listen to her instead of fight with her.

Why is it so necessary for you to be right that you are willing to cut her out entirely? Why can't you let it slide long enough to build up an environment where she does NOT feel the way she does? In essence, this is exactly the same behavior that we talked to you about at the beginning of this thread.

You are not listening to your wife. Yes she had an affair. So true. And you will find out more over time. That is, if you remain together. But until you realize that her behavior is in response to yours, you won't get ANYWHERE except divorced - she points that out quite clearly here:



> . I was in shock and said I loved her but I don’t know what has gotten into her and the reason for her actions, that I didn’t know her anymore. She responded with “I don’t know you either” I could feel the tears building in me, and I said why did she do that, it really hurts. She said don’t worry about what she did, that I need to worry about making things better cause she did not come to this country to be with me and suffer.['/quote]
> 
> You tell her you don't know what has gotten into her, nor the reasons for her actions (although we've pointed out some obvious reasons)....
> 
> ...


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You are sincerely losing it dude. Why are you letting your wife blame shift? And you should stop all communication with her mother. You are complicating everything by involving her. You need to go dark with your wife. Until she is in snot and mascara running mess, begging your forgiveness, you should limit all interaction. So let me understand this. You go out and spend 40 dollars of the money you make having a good time with some friends, where by the way you are not screwing any of them. THEN your wife gives you a hard time about spending the money after she has spread her legs for another man. What the hell is wrong with this picture? You sincerely need to gain some perspective. Your wife is playing this game because she knows she can guilt you. She has cuckolded you and destroyed your self esteem. Again, it is time for you to man up. Do you think she will ever respect you with you cow towing to her every time you talk?


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

I have a question of a similar nature really. Why is it that when we are the cheated/lied-to party and we still love the cheater/liar, we end up in a situation where we console/apologize/express our love and devotion etc.? Why is it that the most dominant and prevailent reaction from the cheater/liar is self-defence? Shouldn't they be the ones consoling/apologizing/expressing their love and devotion etc.? 

I undestand that the act of cheating doesn't happen out of the blue, that there must have been something we were doing or not doing that pushed the significant other away from us towards the other person. I understand that lying may be caused by self-preservation or simply embarrasment. 

But why is it that when confronted with proof, people immediately go into, and more importantly stay in self-justification mode? Without acknowledging what the hurt party might be going through/needing in terms of affirmation of love/apology etc.?

I am absolutely NOT saying we should rave and rant and fight and punish the cheater/liar, but hey, when I do something wrong I own up to it and try to make up for it, even if with mere but nevertheless sincere words.


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## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Why apologize when you still want to do it? They need justification to keep going. They want the high moral ground they can never have.


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