# Newly engaged and suspicious (with good reason)



## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

It has been a long time since I posted on TAM. Sad to say that my previous marriage ended in divorce (separated in early 2016). 

TLDR: Fiance sent inappropriate messages to an old friend and is acting like it's no big deal. Offered complete transparency but hasn't followed through.

--

I am 47, currently engaged to a newish partner (dating since early 2020). He was also married previously. His marriage ended due to sexual compatibility issues (him: HD, her: LD) and her alcoholism. My situation was very similar (I am HD, former husband was LD and had alcohol/anger issues). 

Minor Problem 1: Fiance is an overshare bear. He is also extremely needy when it comes to seeking attention from women. He cheated on his wife multiple times, but was never caught. Knowing this has created some insecurities in me. Unlike his ex, I am extremely intuitive and tech savvy -- which can be a painful and somewhat dangerous combination in modern relationships. As such, we have agreed to share passcodes and to have complete access to each other's devices at all times. It was something we both felt was missing in previous relationships -- and we thought it would be a good way to build trust.

Big Problem 2: Two weeks after he proposed to me, we were on a date night. Something felt very, very, very off. We also hadn't had sex all week (not my choice, for the record). He went to the bathroom, left his phone on the table and I discovered that he was flirting via FB messenger with a woman he has been friends with for 25 years. She is a single parent, 36, not particularly attractive -- but a safe target. Under the guise of checking on her, he asked how she was doing, if she was dating anyone -- and then "Are you sleeping with anyone?" My heart was racing so fast that I don't even remember if I read her response. I just remember the next question from him. "What about with me?" Again -- I don't remember her response. I was focused on what he was saying.

By the time he came back from the bathroom, I had left the restaurant. I was overwhelmed with panic and nausea. I started to walk home, called a good friend to tell her what happened and ignored my fiancé's calls. He texted, "Where are you?" I replied, "Heading home. How stupid do you think I am?"

Here's where things went awry. I really wish he would have simply given me some space to catch my breath and come down from my state of panic. Instead, he arrived at the house shortly after I did. He insisted that there was nothing wrong with the conversation, that it didn't mean anything and that I was overreacting. He even made a crack like, "Have you seen her? She's not cute."

My gut told me otherwise. He asked if I wanted to talk to her. I said yes (this is after 2 beers, mind you -- and I'm a lightweight). She answered and was extremely hostile toward me. I told her that my beef was not with her, but with him. I simply asked if she thought the conversation was inappropriate, given the nature of his relationship with me. She dodged the question repeatedly and finally said, "You read the whole conversation. You can come to your own conclusion." (In other words, she was basically defending him.)

I was extremely upset. If he had simply apologized and admitted that it was wrong, I don't think I would have been nearly as upset -- but he basically made me feel like I was completely insane for being upset.

At some point, he left to spend the night at a friend's house. We argued some more. He became apologetic at one point, but kept going back to doubling down.

Over the course of the weekend, I asked him to have no further contact with her. He agreed.

You know where this is going. By Monday, I knew that they had been in contact with each other. I watched the conversation unfold in real time on the iPad. It was sort of innocuous but he was still saying things like, "God forbid send a dumb text after a couple of beers." In other words, I'm ridiculous to be upset. 

I point blank asked him that night if he had been in contact with her. He lied and said no. I let it drop and decided that I would let it play out and gather evidence in the meantime. Because clearly he sucks at covering his tracks.

On Wednesday, I discovered she visited him at work. Again, the conversation via text was innocuous -- but he had sworn off contact with her and now he was helping her with something? I confronted him immediately and he went completely bananas. Insisted he did nothing wrong. Insisted that she contacted him (blocking might have helped with that). He eventually broke down sobbing (ugh) and I ended up comforting HIM.

The next day, I drove up to see my daughter at college. I basically told him that he could take the weekend to figure out what he wanted but that I would, in no way, tolerate further lies nor would I stay in a relationship with someone who clearly did not see any problem with what he did. I basically said that I was done unless he took full responsibility and agreed to complete transparency and pre-marital counseling with me.

He was extremely apologetic, said all the right things and started behaving like the man I fell in love with. Two weeks later, here we are. The iPad has been wiped -- and not restored. He takes his laptop to work with him. I still have the passcode to his phone, but he never sets it down. I am obsessed with trying to find a way to check his phone data logs. I bought a VAR but I have not used it yet. We share each other's locations with each other via our phones -- at all times.

I don't think they have a physical relationship, but I am fairly convinced that they are still communicating nonetheless. That (and the lying about it) are deal breakers for me, but how do you know if the deal has been broken without proof? He behaves a bit like a child in this sense -- like it didn't happen if he didn't get caught. And even when he is caught, he pretends it didn't. Add to that the fact that every single thing he has ever told me is now in question -- I wonder what else I don't know.

We start therapy tomorrow. I'm at a loss for where to even begin.

The pros:

1. Sexually speaking, we are very well matched for each other. Kinks, frequency, enthusiasm = 5 stars. Very attracted to him and vice versa.
2. We make a great team.
3. He is extremely caring, generous and sweet.
4. We have a ton of fun together. Love to travel and go on adventures with each other.
5. He is hard-working.
6. We both pride ourselves on taking good care of each other.
7. He's attentive. I'm attentive -- maybe to a fault. (I have no idea why he would need more attention.)
8. He has his act together in most of the most important ways a man can.
9. I love his family and they love me.

Not even sure what my question is at this point. I don't want to throw in the towel, but I don't know how to get the reassurance that I need. I don't know how to rebuild trust. I don't know where to put my feelings about what happened because he never wants to talk about anything unpleasant -- especially if it has hurt me in some way. 

Thanks for reading this far. Any suggestions on how to get to the place where I have that reassurance are greatly appreciated.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

bewilderness said:


> 3. He is extremely caring, generous and sweet.
> 
> 6. We both pride ourselves on taking good care of each other.
> 
> 8. He has his act together in most of the most important ways a man can.


I would argue that these are not as true as you think they are. If he was as caring as you say he is, he wouldn't want you to feel this way. He wouldn't do things to hurt you and after hurting you, he wouldn't do things to prolong the pain and suffering. He certainly isn't taking good care of you in this area, and he most definitely does not have his act all together. I'm sure he's not all bad, no one is, but sometimes the bad outweighs the good. 


bewilderness said:


> I don't know how to get the reassurance that I need. I don't know how to rebuild trust.


You can't without his cooperation. He is unwilling to cooperate AND he's a proven cheater... You know that he is still cheating, even if it hasn't gone physical _yet_.

I don't think the saying "once a cheater, always a cheater" is true. However, you do have to be more cautious with a former cheater and he has proven that he doesn't have the "former" title. This guy is bad news...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Shall I add his bad points?
1)he is a liar
2)he is a deceiver
3)he is a serial cheat

Please tell me why a man who is all the above can in anyway be trusted?

I wouldn't give a man like that a second look. If you marry him this will be your life. Checking up on him. Looking at where he is. Worrying about who he is texting or seeing now.

Therapy wont help at all, this is who he is. You can never be given reassurance.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Serial cheaters are addicted to the rush of getting away with it and the excitement of a new toy. I was married to one for a very long time and despite telling me how much he loved me and wanted to remain married he never stopped cheating. That’s what you’re in for if you stay with him. Don’t.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

He and you are not sexually compatible.

You are HD, high desire.

He is FAW, (eff anything warm).

He does not have boundary issues, because he has none.

An attention whorm he is, add in a sex addict,

He is not marriage material.

Make sure he now wears a condom when you two get intimate.
STD's are out there. They sneak up on you from sneaky people.

Why does he act like this?
Because he can.
Woman seem to like him and tolerate him



_Lilith-._


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@bewilderness ,

The first thing I would say to you is that I don't believe you need reassurance. You are seeing reality and are being told it's not reality. That is gaslighting, and it's an attempt to make you second-guess yourself. It *IS* really happening!

The next thing I would say to you is: "Can you live with this?" Don't love who you wish he was. Don't love who you hope he will be. Don't love who you want him to be. Can you love him as a man who is going to hide conversations with other women from you? Can you love him as a man who would rather make you doubt your sanity than admit he was wrong? Can you love him as a man who thinks it is acceptable to be exclusively dating a person/engaged/promising commitment and to simultaneously be flirting with another person? If your answer is "no" then you can not be with him. This is who he is. So the question of the day is "Can you live with this?"

The final thing I would ask you is do you love yourself enough to enforce this boundary? It sounds to me as if you have a boundary around your own self that is something like: "I will only have a committed life partner in my life who is equally committed to only me." Your boundary around you involves SHARED passwords and technology transparency...and that the partner would exclusively turn to you as you exclusively turn to them, but also that you would police your own self and you would only have a partner in your life who would police themselves. Right? You can't control your current fiance, but you CAN set boundaries around you...for you. So do you love yourself enough to enforce this boundary? If so, then you can not be with this man, because this is who he is. If not, then you may need to admit either this isn't really your boundary (be honest with yourself) -OR- you may need some therapy to learn to love yourself more. 

In the end, here's how I see it: he sees nothing wrong with getting his emotional needs met by a number of females at the same time as he "claims" to be committed to one. That's who he is! If you can accept that and make NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER to change him, then continue with the engagement and get married. If you *CAN NOT accept that*, then end the engagement now and move on.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

I stopped reading. 
Look, you're really smart. We will not question that. 

You are right there, like a pro and outlined the story of a man who is a known serial cheater who is actively engaged in that kind of secret activity, right now. You said all that I believe. 

The part of this that makes no sense is that you're in the picture. Do you see the flaw here? Go back from a 3rd person, being objective and having some knowledge and experience with infidelity and read what you wrote. Think you just met up with "Suzie" from years ago and she told you all that. What would you think and what would you tell Suzie.

Of course we get it. You have strong feelings for this man. You've come at this from the side of good and correctness. From the side you're coming at it, there can be many future great possibilities with others who came at all this by way of goodness and correctness. 

Unfortunately the man you are hooked on does not have goodness and correctness as his foundation. He's more from lying, opportunism, deceit, misleading, gaslighting. The only thing the tech will do for you is that you'll have some nice evidence for his lies, deceit, ... and the dirty. 

Please re-examine your whole position. You're really smart and really have so much to offer. Anyone like you has enormous potential. I am asking you, for your sake, that you do not put all that on the table for this man to take. 

Good Luck.


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

bobert said:


> I would argue that these are not as true as you think they are. If he was as caring as you say he is, he wouldn't want you to feel this way. He wouldn't do things to hurt you and after hurting you, he wouldn't do things to prolong the pain and suffering. He certainly isn't taking good care of you in this area, and he most definitely does not have his act all together. I'm sure he's not all bad, no one is, but sometimes the bad outweighs the good.


I'm afraid you might be right. I think what I am starting to realize is that the version of himself that he presents when he is "caring" is the version he wants to be, but isn't. It's a fantasy. I can see him wrestling with his demons and quite frankly, I think I am too old, too smart and way too tired to deal with all of that. I've done my work -- and I continue to go to therapy to grow. I don't see a whole lot of growth opportunity from someone who makes the same mistakes over and over again with zero remorse -- right up until he falls apart at the thought of losing me.

Not to toot my own horn, but damn. I'm a catch. He has pointed out, repeatedly, that every man I have ever been with (3 significant relationships in my lifetime) tried desperately to get back together with me after I left. He's right. They all hung on for years. Why? I take great care of the people I love. I work hard. I'm attractive and fit. I own my own house. I love sex. I keep reminding myself that I have a lot to offer the right person -- but I want him to be the right person. And that's the sad part. I had no intention of leaving him. I am all in and want it to work.

It's so frustrating. I have invested so much into this relationship and I definitely still have strong feelings for him. Never thought I would be faced with this kind of decision, but here we are. Thanks for your reply.


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

Affaircare said:


> @bewilderness ,
> So the question of the day is "Can you live with this?"
> 
> The final thing I would ask you is do you love yourself enough to enforce this boundary? It sounds to me as if you have a boundary around your own self that is something like: "I will only have a committed life partner in my life who is equally committed to only me." Your boundary around you involves SHARED passwords and technology transparency...and that the partner would exclusively turn to you as you exclusively turn to them, but also that you would police your own self and you would only have a partner in your life who would police themselves. Right? You can't control your current fiance, but you CAN set boundaries around you...for you. So do you love yourself enough to enforce this boundary? If so, then you can not be with this man, because this is who he is. If not, then you may need to admit either this isn't really your boundary (be honest with yourself) -OR- you may need some therapy to learn to love yourself more.


This is really great advice. Thank you. 😥 I have asked myself repeatedly if I can love him unconditionally -- knowing this is who he is. Right now, I don't have that answer...but my gut tells me that he will never change.


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

rugswept said:


> Please re-examine your whole position. You're really smart and really have so much to offer. Anyone like you has enormous potential. I am asking you, for your sake, that you do not put all that on the table for this man to take.


Thank you. You're right. There's a big part of me that is starting to see that I am invested for the wrong reasons.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

bewilderness said:


> I let it drop and decided that I would let it play out and gather evidence in the meantime.


I stopped here. What more do you really need. You found the smoking gun.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

bewilderness said:


> This is really great advice. Thank you. 😥 I have asked myself repeatedly if I can love him unconditionally -- knowing this is who he is. Right now, I don't have that answer...*but my gut tells me that he will never change*.


See the bolded part right there? I think (don't know for sure, but it sounds like) I hear you saying that some part of your heart was actually HOPING HE WOULD CHANGE. See that? Your gut is saying he will never change, and if he were a stand up, faithful guy, that would make your heart happy! So what you're saying is that your gut is sad or discouraged or upset or ill because he's not a stand up, faithful guy and you were hoping he would change to a stand up, faithful guy. 

Here's the thing, @bewilderness. That's not who he is. That's not who he will ever be. (Well...while there's life there's hope, and yet HE would have to want it, and all indications seem to point to the fact that he doesn't find anything wrong so he has no desire to change.) So if he continues to act as he is now, turning to other females to have his emtional needs met (at minimum) for the remainder of your relationship together, can you not only accept that, but love him AS HE IS? In other words, nothing will change. He'll continue on as he is now. Can you "not fight with him" and tolerate, approve, and comply with that as a part of your relationship?


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

bewilderness said:


> It has been a long time since I posted on TAM. Sad to say that my previous marriage ended in divorce (separated in early 2016).
> 
> TLDR: Fiance sent inappropriate messages to an old friend and is acting like it's no big deal. Offered complete transparency but hasn't followed through.
> 
> ...


There are (as others would agree) "more red flags than a Chinese military parade" here.

First, there's a near-zero percent chance that a cheater who got away with it in a previous relationship will suddenly reform and become a model citizen.

Second, no amount of compatibility can balance out a brush with infidelity before you even get to the point of exchanging vows. Consider this a helpful preview of your entire future marriage where you will be playing the role of "marriage cop" until you divorce. I thought of your list as rational but it's like saying "We make a great couple EXCEPT for the gigantic character flaws he recently showed me in vivid detail".

Having to go to pre-marriage counseling brings up one thought: If your relationship needs pre-marriage counseling, why bother getting married? Think of the emotional investment as a sunk cost, and breaking up with him as future emotional cost avoidance.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Interesting that at the top of your pro list is sex.

Just throwing this out there. Is it possible that you're confusing getting F'd real good with love?

You want him to be honest with you which should be a given. However what's more important than this is you should be honest with yourself and it's pretty apparent by what you've written that you're not. 

It's painful to know the truth, but he's shown you who he is. There's a pattern here. 

This isn't about him. It's about you. As affaircare said, do you love yourself enough to have a firm boundary here?

This man doesn't love you. I know it's painful to hear this. How much do you love yourself? Staying with him......you have seen how this is going to play out. Do you want to be a detective with someone who's supposed to love you?

Be honest with yourself and once you are you'll know how to handle this.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

bewilderness said:


> This is really great advice. Thank you. 😥 I have asked myself repeatedly if I can love him unconditionally -- knowing this is who he is. Right now, I don't have that answer...but my gut tells me that he will never change.


Loving him unconditionally? Well… that will include looking the other way while he betrays you. It’s what he does - he’s been consistent in that regard.
You can’t change him! You either accept the cheating or you end it!
What’s it gonna be?


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

He can't even stay faithful for 2 years, hitting on ugly women behind his fit & attractive fiancee's back, gaslighting like a pro... Kick him down to a FWB situation if you want to keep him around for good sex, but don't marry this person thinking things will get better with time / therapy.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

You are setting yourself up for failure with a known repeat cheater. Take off the rose colored glasses .... he’s a loser.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Cheaters cheat. That never changes. This man had massive red flags to begin with and you should not have proceeded at all with him. 

That said, do not fall into the sunk cost fallacy that you've already spent 2 years on him so you should continue...... RUN, run like the wind and don't look back.

(Make the first stop on your run a doctor for an STD check.)


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I’d just go dark immediately. He has ruined the trust and there is NO way you will EVER be capable of trusting him.
There’s not one reason to speak to him again! He gaslite you knowing he was pursuing an ugly gal for extra sex! Then he acted like you did wrong and wouldn’t apologize! He’s terrible!
And guess what happens when a WILLING attractive gal comes around? Yep - he will treat you just as bad.
He thinks it makes it ok because she’s ugly? That’s awful! He’s trying for ugly because he’s that desperate and knows she will likely say yes. He has no morals and lacks character. 

I could NEVER respect a guy like that! And I certainly wouldn’t spend one more second with him! You shouldn’t either!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Why would you even consider marrying someone who you already know is a serial cheater? I hope you're not deluded enough to think you're special and his soulmate where the others were not. He is what he is and if you have any common sense at all, he will call it off. I mean certainly don't get into a marriage with him. If you want to bang him even though he's going to be seeing other women but at least keep it simple and straightforward and don't complicate it with marriage and finances.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

bewilderness said:


> Not to toot my own horn, but damn. I'm a catch. He has pointed out, repeatedly, that every man I have ever been with (3 significant relationships in my lifetime) tried desperately to get back together with me after I left. He's right. They all hung on for years. Why? I take great care of the people I love. I work hard. I'm attractive and fit. I own my own house. I love sex. I keep reminding myself that I have a lot to offer the right person


You have to come to terms with the fact that it doesn’t matter what you look like, what you do, how amazing you are. Your fiancé likes the excitement of a side piece, he doesn’t care how cute or successful they are, as long as they are giving him excitement and sex. He wants to marry the hot lady who has it all together, but his side piece just needs to be able to flirt and have a warm hole.

He has shown you and told you what is most important to him… trashy side pieces. You are just having trouble believing him. Maybe figure out why that is. You deserve a hell of a lot better than this loser, don’t allow him to make you question that.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

bewilderness said:


> ...
> He cheated on his wife multiple times, but was never caught.
> ...


*Whoa, Nelly!*

TLDR; You have no one to blame but yourself. Don't date, engage, or marry a serial cheater.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Isn't it interesting how people are different?

I would have been gone, no looking back, after the texts you found in the restaurant. There would have been _no hesitation_. And no I'm not just saying that because it's easy to just say. I divorced after a 16 year marriage, I do know what it's like to terminate a relationship and have lived it.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Hard to believe there is any question in your mind. Past serial cheater now busted again? You do not know what to do?


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## Pip’sJourney (Mar 17, 2021)

I agree with @Livvie. After the texts, that would be enough. Then he had the gall to lie then gaslight you by bringing up her appearance(which is also mean spirited) 

Is this really someone you want to have in your life? someone you want to police your whole relationship? someone you cannot trust? Luckily you are not married and can part. Find someone who is worthy of you.. they are out there.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

He has proven this.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

bewilderness said:


> It has been a long time since I posted on TAM. Sad to say that my previous marriage ended in divorce (separated in early 2016).
> 
> TLDR: Fiance sent inappropriate messages to an old friend and is acting like it's no big deal. Offered complete transparency but hasn't followed through.
> 
> ...


You made a big mistake by overlooking the fact that he is already a serial cheater. Now you have had an up close look at who he really is, a liar that makes empty promises. Is that really someone you want to be in a relationship with? You said you are a catch, and I have no reason to doubt you, so why stick with a cheating liar?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

We train people how to treat us. By staying you have sent him a clear message that you will stay when he cheats.

Kick this loser to the curb!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Sorry you are having to go through this. It is never easy dealing with heart ache when we think the relationship is going great.

I’m glad that you found this out before you got married.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Shall I add his bad points?
> 1)he is a liar
> 2)he is a deceiver
> 3)he is a serial cheat
> ...


I agree with this. He's showing you who he really is; you just need to believe him. Can you put up with this treatment for the rest of your life?


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## Davit Bek (Sep 9, 2021)

I can't believe someone would intentionally chose him as a partner. You clearly ignored a lot of red flags. Good luck to you.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes, this is a BIG problem. However, the bigger problem will be if you continue your relationship with this man. You deserve better than this jerk. Seriously.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

bewilderness said:


> It has been a long time since I posted on TAM. Sad to say that my previous marriage ended in divorce (separated in early 2016).
> 
> TLDR: Fiance sent inappropriate messages to an old friend and is acting like it's no big deal. Offered complete transparency but hasn't followed through.
> 
> ...


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

bewilderness said:


> It has been a long time since I posted on TAM. Sad to say that my previous marriage ended in divorce (separated in early 2016).
> 
> TLDR: Fiance sent inappropriate messages to an old friend and is acting like it's no big deal. Offered complete transparency but hasn't followed through.
> 
> ...


Um....why are you engaged to him? Don't you think this has moved waaayyy too quickly? I don't think he's the one for you.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

bewilderness said:


> I discovered that he was flirting via FB messenger with a woman he has been friends with for 25 years. She is a single parent, 36, not particularly attractive -- but a safe target. Under the guise of checking on her, he asked how she was doing, if she was dating anyone -- and then "Are you sleeping with anyone?" My heart was racing so fast that I don't even remember if I read her response. I just remember the next question from him. "What about with me?" Again -- I don't remember her response. I was focused on what he was saying.
> 
> Two weeks later, here we are. The iPad has been wiped -- and not restored. He takes his laptop to work with him. I still have the passcode to his phone, but he never sets it down. I am obsessed with trying to find a way to check his phone data logs. I bought a VAR but I have not used it yet. We share each other's locations with each other via our phones -- at all times.


These two things tell you ALL you need to know. I personally would have been done after discovering the messages at the restaurant. They are very telling. Nothing he says can make them ok.



bewilderness said:


> This is really great advice. Thank you. 😥 *I have asked myself repeatedly if I can love him unconditionally* -- knowing this is who he is. Right now, I don't have that answer...but my gut tells me that he will never change.


Of course you can. That doesn't mean you should be with him in a relationship though. You can love anyone as much as you like, doesn't mean they're good for you.

I also don't think you love him, not really, you love the man you WISH he was. Big difference.

Come on honey, you're better than this.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

bewilderness said:


> Minor Problem 1: Fiance is an overshare bear. He is also *extremely needy* when it comes to seeking attention from women.


This is actually a feminine characteristic that will likely cause you to lose attraction over the long run. It seems to be an epidemic nowadays. Especially here on TAM. I bet he likes to post pictures of himself and is chatty on FB (beyond what you posted). Spends hours on it. FB has become a middle-aged woman's app.

Just put everything on hold for now and reassess your situation over time. Better yet. Find a less needy guy. That was your mistake.


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## Vaughan (Aug 18, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Shall I add his bad points?
> 1)he is a liar
> 2)he is a deceiver
> 3)he is a serial cheat
> ...


No need to go beyond this response. You can do better, please do.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Cancel the marriage permanently.


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## Thisnotthat (Oct 28, 2020)

I have lots of male friends and a few female friends that I do outdoor activities with. I've never asked any of them if they were "sleeping with anybody". I can't even imagine a context where that question or conversation would make sense, especially for my female friends (I'm male)

Dude's a douchebag. End it quickly.


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

Thisnotthat said:


> I have lots of male friends and a few female friends that I do outdoor activities with. I've never asked any of them if they were "sleeping with anybody". I can't even imagine a context where that question or conversation would make sense, especially for my female friends (I'm male)
> 
> Dude's a douchebag. End it quickly.


This might be my favorite response. Thank you. Likewise, I have lots in common with my guy friends. Not once have I asked them who they are banging.


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

manowar said:


> This is actually a feminine characteristic that will likely cause you to lose attraction over the long run. It seems to be an epidemic nowadays. Especially here on TAM. I bet he likes to post pictures of himself and is chatty on FB (beyond what you posted). Spends hours on it. FB has become a middle-aged woman's app.
> 
> Just put everything on hold for now and reassess your situation over time. Better yet. Find a less needy guy. That was your mistake.


Feminine characteristics don’t scare me. Deceitful ones do.


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## damo7 (Jul 16, 2020)

Sounds like a downgrade on your 1st husband - but that's always the case for women. Don't hate the messenger.


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## Savannah01 (Sep 8, 2021)

Been there done that … sadly all too familiar .. except my husbands conversation was with a stranger 

I say trust your gut … if this was something he could not share openly with you there is definitely more to it than innocent messages

after I caught my husband he even told me that the woman “ was not all that “ as if to make me feel any better

Men like them seek alternates of different women , whether physical or emotional validation they are curious by nature and sadly despite obvious outcomes they will dare to tread that path for the thrill of it

maybe it was innocent and maybe it wasn’t — for me the intent was there and even if it were innocent at first , it take the right woman to make the invite and that could be a whole other story

my heart goes out to you but if you’re not yet remarried , think twice … you don’t want to deal with this likeI am , already married with children
It’s not a pleasant experience


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## jjj858 (Jun 18, 2021)

On your first point, most people have good sex at first in a relationship so that isn’t a good way to measure the quality of the relationship. This guy has repeatedly displayed that he is not a safe partner. He is a serial cheater and will cheat again and again and nothing you can do will stop him. Get out while you can. You sound like you’re too caught up in your feelings right now to make rational decisions so do what you want, but don’t say you weren’t warned.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Honestly, your post was way too long to read (I'm old, I don't have all the time in the world).

I stopped reading after I got to the part where you say your serial-cheating boyfriend is already lining up his next playtime buddy based on the texts you saw in his phone - after you've ALREADY told us Prince Charming is a serial cheater and cheated on his last wife numerous times.

And now, you're trying to talk yourself into believing that this cheating and disrespectful POS is worth your time just because you like that he's oversexed and has the same 'kinks' as you do, and some other things you mention that are positive. You want so badly for the positives to trump the fact that he's a serial cheating, disrespectful POS.

Sorry. They don't.

You can continue trying desperately to delude yourself, or you can face reality.

Good luck to you.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


OnTheRocks said:



He can't even stay faithful for 2 years, hitting on ugly women behind his fit & attractive fiancee's back, gaslighting like a pro...

Click to expand...

*LOL...you would not BELIEVE some of the pigs these serial cheaters will have sex with if said pig is willing.

100 years ago I was married to a serial cheater and he would virtually screw anything that would let him. One time my friend and I were at the neighborhood pub having a drink and I kept hearing some guy talking who was sitting on the other side of my friend as we sat at the bar. There was a big old mirror behind the bar and my friend and I could see ourselves in it as we sat there chatting.

Anyway, my friend almost dropped her drink when she realized the "man" voice we kept hearing was one of my now ex-husband's 'conquests' and she told me to casually lean to the right and look in the mirror which would let me see down past her to see this creature also sitting at the bar. 

Good God almighty. 

That dumpster fire of a supposed woman was absolutely hideous and to make matters worse, she sounded like a damned man. 

I actually started cracking up when I saw how low he'd sink. I did, I actually laughed. And then, I told my friend how grateful I was that I was getting the keys to my new apartment the very next week.

Most serial cheaters take what they can get, OP. Just because this woman isn't a runway model doesn't mean your serial cheating boyfriend isn't going to try his best to bed her - because that's exactly what he's setting her up for. In fact, if she's unattractive, a lot of them simply see these women as low-hanging fruit and an easier target than attractive women.


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

damo7 said:


> Sounds like a downgrade on your 1st husband - but that's always the case for women. Don't hate the messenger.


Tell me you’re an incel without telling me you’re an incel. 🙄

My ex-husband was an angry, abusive alcoholic who stopped contributing financially and rarely wanted sex. But you obviously know women best. 😂


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Honestly, your post was way too long to read (I'm old, I don't have all the time in the world).
> 
> I stopped reading after I got to the part where you say your serial-cheating boyfriend is already lining up his next playtime buddy based on the texts you saw in his phone - after you've ALREADY told us Prince Charming is a serial cheater and cheated on his last wife numerous times.
> 
> ...


Hence the TLDR. Not forcing anyone to read or respond. Just looking for feedback from people who have been there. Thanks for your reply.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

damo7 said:


> Sounds like a downgrade on your 1st husband - but that's always the case for women. Don't hate the messenger.


I don't hate the messenger, I feel sorry for the messenger because you're obviously very inexperienced with women, or you just have your lady picker pointed in the wrong direction. The 2nd husband or relationship after marriage isn't always a downgrade for all women, as you state. Most of us get a little smarter, and set our man pickers in a direction that works out much better for us.



bewilderness said:


> Tell me you’re an incel without telling me you’re an incel. 🙄
> My ex-husband was an angry, abusive alcoholic who stopped contributing financially and rarely wanted sex. But you obviously know women best. 😂


I'm not as hip to the groove on some lingo, and actually had to google what an "incel" was. I laughed out loud at that one, thanks for that! I also come from a pretty crappy first marriage, so I understand wanting to find someone who's a better match.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

damo7 said:


> Sounds like a downgrade on your 1st husband - but that's always the case for women. Don't hate the messenger.


I upgraded, along with many others I know.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> Hard to believe there is any question in your mind. Past serial cheater now busted again? You do not know what to do?


This post mirrors what I was going to write. 

It's hard to believe that someone would need to ask for the advice of others when things are so bad.

The guy is a repeated cheater and liar, you expect his character flaws to simply evaporate..and you're ENGAGED to this loser after dating a short year with all of the red flags blowing in the wind?

At the very least break the engagement, enjoy the sex and companionship but expect nothing more out of him. Certainly not honesty or some sort of exclusivity commitment.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Savannah01 said:


> after I caught my husband he even told me that the woman “ was not all that “ as if to make me feel any better
> 
> Men like them seek alternates of different women , whether physical or emotional validation they are curious by nature and sadly despite obvious outcomes they will dare to tread that path for the thrill of it


she probably DID look like a dog.
but, she probably did all sorts of kinky and filthy sexual things, that he could not resist.
its NOT looks he was probably going for, it was playing out some sort of extreme sexual fantasy


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Yeah, I have no idea where the concept that you cannot do better second time around comes from..
That said, in this specific case, it does not sound like you are upgrading, with, perhaps, the exception of the sexual as satisfaction area.
What, exactly, are you doing with this guy? Take out the current overtures he is making , you are aware of his history, right. You sound bright and are fit and attractive. Why such a low sense of entitlement?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

manowar said:


> This is actually a feminine characteristic that will likely cause you to lose attraction over the long run. It seems to be an epidemic nowadays. Especially here on TAM. I bet he likes to post pictures of himself and is chatty on FB (beyond what you posted). Spends hours on it. FB has become a middle-aged woman's app.
> 
> Just put everything on hold for now and reassess your situation over time. Better yet. Find a less needy guy. That was your mistake.


Interesting. Yes it is very very feminine behaviour. Actually a lot of serial male cheaters have a extremely feminine traits which tend to worsen with age. Like the gay boy in high school, who surrounds himself with girls, and can’t relate to men.

Does he have a lot of close male friends? Male friends that he’s had for a long time, not superficial buddies. Does he have traditionally male hobbies and interests, like sport or cars? Or is his main hobby ugly girls and chatting? And yes, they’ll often be ugly girls. Like the pretty girl in high school who needs an ugly friend to feel superior.

By a certain age, this sort of feminine behaviour in men can worsen. It can extend to other female-ish behaviour, like being *****y and extending into extra attention to YOUR appearance. Let me guess, you have fun together picking out clothes for you? (I could be way off here though, so disregard if not relevant) Hard to explain in length, but in these serial male cheaters, you can feel like you’re dating a young teenage girl. Is he competitive?

Look, he doesn’t seem very manly and the friend’s reaction to you tells me a lot. (Such drama, rolling my eyes as you must be!) You seem smart & I would end this. There will be hysterics and pleading and a lot of foot stamping from him.

But the best part? That will be short lived!! Can you go through a couple of months of hysterics and give yourself lots of padding for when you leave? He’ll move onto someone else fairly quickly. (But probably want to be texting buddies with you - but don’t let that happen.) He also won’t hook up in the future with an ugly girl, he’ll find someone else just like you. I can guarantee that. 😏


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

So @bewilderness - you've been given some feedback here. Any thoughts? Are you starting to formulate a plan?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You caught him flat out propositioning some woman for sex. There’s no “gut” feeling here.
There’s just an obvious, plain and simple attempt to cheat on you 2 weeks after he proposed. You already know he’s a serial cheater, and he’s already attempted to cheat on you, while at the point of the relationship he should be in love with you the most ever.

If he we will attempt to cheat and actually try to gaslight you in a situation this blatantly obvious, what would he do in a situation where he wasn’t caught so red-handed?

There’s really not anything to do but put him down the road. As someone else pointed out, he will bang anything that walks. Not even close to marriage material.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You had to fire your first husband because he was crappy at the job of being a husband.

So please tell me why are you entertaining this 'man' for the position of your boot carrier, let alone husband?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

bewilderness said:


> It has been a long time since I posted on TAM. Sad to say that my previous marriage ended in divorce (separated in early 2016).
> 
> TLDR: Fiance sent inappropriate messages to an old friend and is acting like it's no big deal. Offered complete transparency but hasn't followed through.
> 
> ...


Dump him.

You already know he’s a serial cheat. They don’t change.


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## nurseoffduty (Nov 20, 2021)

bewilderness said:


> I'm afraid you might be right. I think what I am starting to realize is that the version of himself that he presents when he is "caring" is the version he wants to be, but isn't. It's a fantasy. I can see him wrestling with his demons and quite frankly, I think I am too old, too smart and way too tired to deal with all of that. I've done my work -- and I continue to go to therapy to grow. I don't see a whole lot of growth opportunity from someone who makes the same mistakes over and over again with zero remorse -- right up until he falls apart at the thought of losing me.
> 
> Not to toot my own horn, but damn. I'm a catch. He has pointed out, repeatedly, that every man I have ever been with (3 significant relationships in my lifetime) tried desperately to get back together with me after I left. He's right. They all hung on for years. Why? I take great care of the people I love. I work hard. I'm attractive and fit. I own my own house. I love sex. I keep reminding myself that I have a lot to offer the right person -- but I want him to be the right person. And that's the sad part. I had no intention of leaving him. I am all in and want it to work.
> 
> It's so frustrating. I have invested so much into this relationship and I definitely still have strong feelings for him. Never thought I would be faced with this kind of decision, but here we are. Thanks for your reply.


You are very lucky you’re only engaged. Please save yourself and dodge a bullet. I wish I had the opportunity to dodge mine. If only I had known before I got engaged 6 years ago, I would have said No.


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## bewilderness (Jun 11, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> So @bewilderness - you've been given some feedback here. Any thoughts? Are you starting to formulate a plan?


Well, as luck would have it, I was in a bad car accident the day before our first counseling appointment and spent a couple of days in the hospital. Not having a great week and dealing with my relationship woes is the least of my concerns at the moment. But everything that everyone has said is weighing on me heavily and I think once the dust settles and I am back on my feet, I will have a clearer head and a better idea of how to proceed. I appreciate everyone (almost — haha) for giving me feedback. 

When it rains, it pours.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Hope you are doing well, heal quickly. Hugs


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

bewilderness said:


> It has been a long time since I posted on TAM. Sad to say that my previous marriage ended in divorce (separated in early 2016).
> 
> TLDR: Fiance sent inappropriate messages to an old friend and is acting like it's no big deal. Offered complete transparency but hasn't followed through.
> 
> ...


This sounds soo much like my ex and I, it's not even funny. Your entire story sounds soo completely familiar, including all your pros. 

Back in the day when Yahoo Messenger was the thing..I got smart to all of it and his passwords. As soon as I caught up to them, he'd change them. I'd just wait for the times he'd get lazy and leave his conversations up on our computer, reading his conversations with other women and their flirtations. It was obvious he was fooling around with every single one of them; whether on our boat, their homes...the local hotel..or our bed. 

I confronted him and he'd deny everything. I KNEW he was lying to me, but lived in denial for too many years to count. I loved him. He loved me. All these women were just "women" to him..he'd never leave me for any of them..he didn't even CARE about any of them. He didn't. Yet that didn't stop him from cheating.

Can't tell you the countless numbers of phone calls I answered with hang up dial tones. I even had husbands/bf's call me to tell me that my husband was messing around with their wives/girlfriends.

I could tell you stories that would make your head spin.

My point is that this guy is no good. The relationship he has with his coworker? I'm sorry to break your heart, but I truly believe he's lying to you about that. They both are.

Move on girlfriend. You deserve soo much better!!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Zombie Cat says "Ah! A zombie thread! I'll close this down."


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