# Careful what you wish and want for



## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

I have popped in here periodically over the past few years...I always read take advice and try to apply what I have gleaned from hours of reading. I turned 50 in June, I lost 43 lbs. over the last 3 years and I came off a massive dose of prescription narcotics. I knew when I got together with my H 20 years ago that he was selfish although I had no idea how selfish. Through the years I had convinced myself that I could deal with his little hissy fits when he didn't get what he wanted...and I did that for the better part of 14 years...but when I wrote him a huge letter explaining how his rejection of me sexually affects/affected me, I was not prepared for the immediate about face in his behaviour. His behaviour changed to the point where he has become irritating...making jokes and sexual comments to me in front of my children, constantly making sexual innuendo...the only thing he read in the whole letter was that I wanted to have sex . I have heard all manner of excuse as to why I spent years begging for sex and sleeping on the couch. What I have come to realize is that if it wasn't about what he wanted, it didn't matter. Instead of getting fixed because he was "so scared of getting pregnant again" he chose to just say "not really" whenever I asked for sex. Now that he thinks I may leave, his desperation just makes me angry...he has crapped on me for years for stupid things and I adapted and rolled with it to keep my family together. My kids are older and they don't need me as much, as it should be, but after twenty years of trying to make someone else happy, I realize I myself am not happy and I don't make him happy. For a couple of months, I thought things were getting better...he was paying more attention to me sex was ok, but his selfishness kept creeping up. He complained that I wasn't initiating enough...so for his birthday I waited for him to come home, on the bed in a sexy little number...but he had a bit of bad news that day and just couldn't bring himself to **** me on his birthday...I told him shortly there after that I didn't think I would be initiating sex much anymore...after years of trying and then being turned down yet again...no thank you...then there is the emotional abuse...threatening to leave, getting pissy at me about stupid things...I truly thought I could deal with his anger for,the rest of my life...I was wrong...and of course, I am not feeling very attracted to him based on the way he has recently treated me. I told him that I didn't want to have sex with him as I wasn't prepared to leave myself open to be hurt yet again...I am in self protective mode...now he wants sex all the time and how dare I not accommodate him, and he just doesn't think he can accept living in a sexless marriage. I told him he didn't get to tell me to pack my stuff and get out without consequences and while I'm not withholding sex to be vindictive, at least I was telling him why I don't want to have sex with him not just because I have a "headache". I am so confused...I don't know how much I have left...until I told him if things didn't change I would leave, he continued with his selfish behaviour and expectations... I tried a kinder gentler approach but ultimately I had to lambaste him...he's looking for the one sure thing that's going to make this better and all he can see is that this could take years and the outcome doesn't look good...so I say ok and off he goes in the opposite direction....I have repeatedly explained why he is selfish only to have it turned back to me and how I just don't care...I feel broken...I have been explaining for weeks how he is being selfish and hurtful...he apologized and asked for some time...in the meantime, every time he gets angry with me for whatever reason, he pushes me one step closer to the door. For the first time, his weight bothers me...maybe it's more that he just comes up with excuse after excuse as to why he can't exercise...and I've asked him repeatedly to come swimming/gym with me over the last 3 yrs...now I don't ask and I really am no longer prepared to adapt my routine to accommodate him...he has admitted that he probably wanted to leave years ago but didn't want to look like the bad guy who left his sick wife (back surgery) and sick kid (manageable autoimmune disease)....funny this is when he was refusing to love me even though I continually reached out to him...resentment...I would think so...my biggest fear is taking whatever amount of time to work on this to have it start all over again....I continue to move forward in my life...exercise everyday to my ability, eat well, and I try to get out and socialize with other people for a couple of hours a week...I do things I enjoy doing, but I catch myself allowing my h to dictate what I do...so I work on that as well. At this point, I don't get that feeling in the pit of my stomach when I think about him anymore...I just don't know if I can get my head around being rejected for so long, and now making myself not available and feeling guilty about not being attracted to him and him always wanting sex is very confusing...and so once again I consult the good folks at TAM.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

There was an interesting research done in neurobiology. The research had 44 males and 44 females read an erotic novel. When it came to retaining information, males remember the sex acts more while females remember the characters and their emotions more. He selectively picked the parts he likes and retained most of that and minimize the things he did not. That is my guess anyways.

He probably treated you poorly because he thought you would always be around. Sometimes marriage gives the veneer of safety. Now that your on the precipice of leaving, he decided to change his tune. Your angry that he did not do this earlier and only took what you said into consideration when your close or over the point of no return. Now that he is aware that he can lose you, and is changing to try and keep you, you may also feel anger that you may feel guilty if you cannot get past this. If you leave, you would feel guilty because he is now trying, and now that he is trying, that means he was capable of it in the past, and did not do so. Just my guess anyways.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hurts my eyes! Wall of text! Ouch!




Tango said:


> I have popped in here periodically over the past few years...I always read take advice and try to apply what I have gleaned from hours of reading. I turned 50 in June, I lost 43 lbs. over the last 3 years and I came off a massive dose of prescription narcotics.
> 
> I knew when I got together with my H 20 years ago that he was selfish although I had no idea how selfish. Through the years I had convinced myself that I could deal with his little hissy fits when he didn't get what he wanted...and I did that for the better part of 14 years...but when I wrote him a huge letter explaining how his rejection of me sexually affects/affected me, I was not prepared for the immediate about face in his behaviour.
> 
> ...


Had to stop here. The bolded part resonates with me. I felt the same way. Reached a point of no return. "What the hell am I doing in this marriage that is so far from what I want the thought of spending the rest of my life like this sickens me!" 



> For a couple of months, I thought things were getting better...he was paying more attention to me sex was ok, but his selfishness kept creeping up. He complained that I wasn't initiating enough...so for his birthday I waited for him to come home, on the bed in a sexy little number...but he had a bit of bad news that day and just couldn't bring himself to **** me on his birthday...I told him shortly there after that I didn't think I would be initiating sex much anymore...after years of trying and then being turned down yet again...no thank you...
> 
> then there is the emotional abuse...threatening to leave, getting pissy at me about stupid things...I truly thought I could deal with his anger for,the rest of my life...I was wrong...and of course, I am not feeling very attracted to him based on the way he has recently treated me.
> 
> ...


Okay, wow!

This is so good. You're letting all of your jumbled up feelings come out. Keep writing. Keep getting it all out. Soon, you'll start to be able to make more sense of what you feel, why you feel and those abstract feelings will become more concrete, you will become more decisive either way.

You have a giant load of resentment that you haven't even begun to scratch the surface of. Being rejected, and feeling unloved, marginalized and dismissed for so long cannot be simply soothed over with new behavior. The old stuff MUST be dealt with.

As it stands now, your H thinks his new attitude is enough to get this marriage back on track. While its a good start, it is not nearly enough, not even close!

I think, even if you were heel bent on saving this marriage it would take years to get it to a healthy place for both of you.

Im sorry but my opinion is to make plans to leave. My husband was never as overtake manipulative as yours and he never admitted to wanting out of the marriage at any point, and yet it took us years to make sufficient progress to where we both feel this marriage absolutely can be saved. Your husband is a strong passive aggressive manipulator, which is a form of lying and self delusion. This man will take a year or more of good therapy on himself before he could even hope to be in a healthy place to participate in your marriage.

Really, your marriage is dead and hopeless. Don't waste another minute trying. Use your anger to move forward to a new and healthy place without him. He will always drag you back down.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

WOW!
Seems to me like the shoe is on the other foot, now.
Not that it's a bad thing, it just is.
Funny how things turn around. You feel empowered and in control. He seems like an angry, needy fat dude that turns you off. 
He needs to wake up and get with the program.
Hopefully, he will figure this out. I did.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Agree with AP. You want respect, connection and sex.

After 20 years, he ponies up one of the three.

Sex without respect and connection is worthless.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Tango said:


> ...I knew when I got together with my H 20 years ago that he was selfish although I had no idea how selfish. Through the years I had convinced myself that I could deal with his little hissy fits when he didn't get what he wanted
> 
> ...What I have come to realize is that if it wasn't about what he wanted, it didn't matter.
> 
> ...


It takes two to make and save a marriage. It is clear that you are ready to leave, have emotionally checked out of your marriage and are looking to him to save it, if he wants to. If you truly feel as you have written, you should leave him, but talk to a good divorce attorney first. 

If for any reasons (kids, friendship, emotional commitment, his not leaving when you were hurting) you decide to try to make the marriage work, then you need to loose your anger toward him. You are doing the Get a Life (GAL) thing that is most important in healing your spirit. Good for you. 

If you decide to give it one more try, remember that he also has to change for a marriage to work, but that you can not force him to change, only he can change himself. So even if you decide to try, there is not sure thing.

Again, the best way to loose your anger is to realize that even if you feel totally blameless, you, in some way, contributed to your own problems, even if it was only by enabling his abuse of you for so long. To loose your anger at your spouse you need to forgive yourself for whatever role you had in the downward dance of you marriage and then you can work on forgiving him. 

If you want to stay to try to make it work you will need to communicate and set clear boundaries with him. You will also need to do 180's to make him realize that the way he treated you will not work any more and that he has a limited time to show you through actions that this mariage can work or not.

My suggestion is for the both of you to read MW Davis book Divorce Busting or her Sex Starved Marriage book to you understand what your options are and that you are not alone. I would also suggest that the two of you get some professional marriage counseling, if the two of you decide to try to make it work.

Good luck to you.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

He sounds like he likes to be in control. A lot of refusers do. I don't believe he refused you for sex just because of the fear of pregnancy. Years ago he thought about leaving but didn't so now that you are thinking of leaving he doesn't want you to? He is having sex now so you can't mention that as a reason you are leaving. He doesn't like that he isn't in control of the situation.


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## Reckless (Mar 24, 2015)

Hi everyone, I'm the H that Tango is talking about. First let me thank you for opening her and my eyes. In my desperation to find a simple solution for what I have done, and continue to do, I happened across this great place. In my frenzied reading trying to find the silver bullet to fix my marriage I put 2 and 2 together and found Tango to be my W. I asked if this was her. It was no real surprise to me that it was...the similarities were uncanny. 

In my reading of various posts from her I have become very ashamed of myself and the way I have treated her. I absolutely love her with all my heart. I believe we are soul mates. 99.9% of what is said about me is true. I read all of these things and have been given the opportunity to see myself through someone else’s eyes. The 1 thing that has been suggested is that I was not faithful. This is not, and will never be, true. I am devoted 100% to Tango. 

I started down a slippery slope of getting away with things many years ago. I am now trying to reverse these negative things, but boy have I built a mountain of them. It seems too much to do in one lifetime. But I love her with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to win her back. I feel ill when I think I could lose her. Reading this thread makes me think I may have lost her already. She deserves happiness and if letting her go is the only way for this to happen, then as much as it would kill me, I wouldn't try to stop her. But I still have to try and hope above all hopes that I can save us by the changes I need to make. There are a lot of things about me that have to change, and this for me is a good start. You don't get this kind of self-reflection every day. It has been eye opening to say the least.

I need help, I don't want for my marriage to end and I want and need to stop being selfish. I would appreciate any and all help offered. You good people probably know me better than I know myself.

I wish this problem was as simple as a lack of sex. At one point it was, but now it has become the monster that I have made it in to. I never thought I was a selfish person, but looking at yourself from a distance sure puts it into perspective. 


Reckless is my name and it is how I have been with my marriage and the one person I love the most.

Thanks for reading and for any and all help you have to offer.

Reckless H.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Reckless said:


> Hi everyone, I'm the H that Tango is talking about. First let me thank you for opening her and my eyes. In my desperation to find a simple solution for what I have done, and continue to do, I happened across this great place. In my frenzied reading trying to find the silver bullet to fix my marriage I put 2 and 2 together and found Tango to be my W. I asked if this was her. It was no real surprise to me that it was...the similarities were uncanny.
> 
> In my reading of various posts from her I have become very ashamed of myself and the way I have treated her. I absolutely love her with all my heart. I believe we are soul mates. 99.9% of what is said about me is true. I read all of these things and have been given the opportunity to see myself through someone else’s eyes. The 1 thing that has been suggested is that I was not faithful. This is not, and will never be, true. I am devoted 100% to Tango.
> 
> ...


Reckless, welcome to TAM!

So you've read your wife's posts and seen yourself through her eyes, through our eyes and you've begun to take responsibility for your years of neglect.

Your wife has a mountain of resentments. These will not just melt away because you are now behaving in a more loving way. It's a very good start though.

When my husband and I finally got to a point of REAL reconciliation, as much as I wanted to let the past go, I found that resentments could crop up out of no where and make it near impossible for me to feel anything other than anger. I didn't want those resentments, I didn't want to hold grudges, but there they were just the same.

My husband wanted forgiveness, he wanted to let the past go, he felt that we should begin again with a clean slate. I agreed. I wanted to make this marriage work; didn't want to just toss 29 years. I didn't hate him, didn't want him to hurt, but could not save him from the effects that years of neglect wrought on my emotions.

After trying to bury the resentment I realized they just wouldn't stay buried, the little bastards. We had to confront them. Each time they reappeared, I needed him to hear them. I needed him to hear the hurt and the confusion his behavior caused. I needed him to hear me, to empathize, to own, and to sincerely apologize. I didn't need groveling, didn't want it either. I needed consoling. I needed honest insight from him.

You've been a passive aggressive, manipulating, cold hearted bastard at times. You've made your wife feel insignificant, unloved, unwanted, unattractive and you've been indifferent to her suffering. You've been doing this for years.

Your first order of business is to cut the passive aggressive crap. You can't do that on your own. You need to find an excellent therapist who can help you get in touch with what you really feel so you can learn to be honest, learn to express your honest feelings, and learn to honestly express your expectations.

You cannot rebuild love until you first learn to stop killing it.

I also suggest that you encourage Tango to continue to post here so that she has a place to sort through her turmoil. If I hadn't had TAM to sort through what I felt I don't think my husband and I could have made it this far. My husband was very brave to come here to TAM and read my scathing posts with my unfiltered feelings. It helped him further understand.

Get all the bad stuff out and replace it with good stuff. This will take time.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Reckless, I suggest you go find a therapist that can help you delve into your past and find the source of your dysfunction. Most of our issues come from our childhood, it helped shape us into the people we are.

In the mean time, do a little tinkering when it comes to your behavior. Make small goals. Keep post it notes on a mirror, on your computer, on your phone. These constant reminders will help you become more self-aware of your issues, and what positive changes you are making. An example of one of these goals is breathing exercise. It is beneficial in terms of helping relax your body, and mind.

Once this becomes a habit, incorporate another goal. These changes will change who you are eventually. It is about controlling yourself and your responses.

I am not going to guarantee that you will win your wife back, but these changes you make will benefit you, and in turn, those around you will benefit as well.

When you learn the breathing exercise, it is diaphragm breathing, you need to learn the art of detachment. Acknowledge your emotions, and with the help of the breathing exercise, learn to take a step back and analyze your situation. If things are going to be too heated, ask for a timeout to cool down. High emotions means that our logical side is no longer in control. Well there is more, but master the small changes first, and then incorporate more tools to use.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

This post is just too smooth, I'm having hard time believing it. Isn't this another way to manipulate your wife? and that's why she is not posting back?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> This post is just too smooth, I'm having hard time believing it. Isn't this another way to manipulate your wife? and that's why she is not posting back?


Maybe she feels like her privacy has been invaded? 

Sometimes you need to just get everything out before things become clearer, or clear enough.

I know when I first came here I had a slew of complaints and a general feeling of anger and disappointment. I needed this forum to get my thoughts organized and my feelings prioritized. I also needed validation that what I felt was valid, that what needed was valid. Years of feeling invalidated left me very timid (I know doesn't fit with my personality) about expressing what I wanted.

Anyway I hope Tango comes back.


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## Reckless (Mar 24, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> This post is just too smooth, I'm having hard time believing it. Isn't this another way to manipulate your wife? and that's why she is not posting back?


I'm sorry you think this of me. I haven't done anything for you to think otherwise I guess. But if she choses not to post, it is her decision and none of my doing. I am no longer trying to manipulate her or the situation. I have seen the person I was/am, and I'm truly embarrassed. Self reflection is an eye opener.

I would like to thank all of you so far for your truthfulness. It hurts but at the same time it helps. I have a long road in front of me. 

I know Tango has a lot of anger built up against me, and rightfully so. I'm here to learn and to try and do my best at saving my marriage. 

I will say this. I never started with the intent on hurting anyone. It progressed over many years to what it became. I didn't even realize what I was doing, or what I had become. I have a steep learning curve ahead of me and I'm prepared to take what ever time and steps needed to make amends. even if this marriage is beyond help and saving, I need to be saved from myself.

Thanks again and please keep the comments coming both good and bad. I need it.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Reckless said:


> I'm sorry you think this of me. I haven't done anything for you to think otherwise I guess. But if she choses not to post, it is her decision and none of my doing. I am no longer trying to manipulate her or the situation. I have seen the person I was/am, and I'm truly embarrassed. Self reflection is an eye opener.
> 
> I would like to thank all of you so far for your truthfulness. It hurts but at the same time it helps. I have a long road in front of me.
> 
> ...


Hi reckless,
You are not alone in your realization that you need to deal with your issues. I know I have had to look in the mirror also, and know the feeling of not liking what I saw. There is hope, but do the work for yourself not for Tango.

I would suggest out of respect for Tango that you start your own thread. Should Tango choose to continuing posting here then you can both get feed back without it becoming a confounding confusing mess.

I would also suggest that for the most part you not post in each others thread without the other persons permission. 

If you like and Tango agrees you can put a link to your thread in your first post here with a note identifying it. (We can help with that if needed).

I really wish you both well.

Take care!


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## Reckless (Mar 24, 2015)

Decorum said:


> I would suggest out of respect for Tango that you start your own thread. Should Tango choose to continuing posting here then you can both get feed back without it becoming a confounding confusing mess.


You are right. Sorry about this folks. I thought that it would be easier for me to admit who I was to the people that had helped her the most. You people are who I need to help me get control of my reckless behavior.

I will be making my own thread and will be hoping that the good people of TAM will help me as much as they have helped Tango.

Please forgive this intrusion.

Sorry Tango.


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

So it's been about two months since my H found me here...it's been quite the roller coaster. He said he wasn't mad that he found it and I really don't know if he was or not since he was away at work. He also told me he wouldn't read any more but I don't believe that because I think he would do just about anything right now to get try and get this back on track. Things will not be normal again. He is trying, hard. We had a pretty good run of him not freaking out or getting mad or 3 hr conversations etc, and then I get that icy stare or he doesn't talk to me for a day or so. So it has been challenging. It is almost painful to try and participate in small talk conversations on subjects that in the past he has not been interested in or or held negative opinions. I'm finding it extremely difficult to just flip like that and, this is a petty example, a month ago he was freaking because I wouldn't make coffee and now it's all good. I have seen how he can change from a "why should we do this because of you" to "have you met my wife". I feel like I'm just waiting for the next bomb, only I don't actively engage him anymore, I walk away, listen to music. I find something to do to avoid escalation. I have made a few observations. I have been going for massage since February, and have recently started more physical therapy. The masseuse said she had not seen anyone with such rigid muscles. Hmmm, I thought. And then I noticed that my guts start rolling about the Friday before he comes home until about the Friday after he leaves. I know it's not fair that I am waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I don't know that I know how to be any other way with him. I guess that's the way I've dealt with the situation. Is it possible for him to make these changes without dealing with why? I'm thinking it's a temporary situation until he's feels like I'm back with the program. I do love this man and this is killing me. This is in spite of being fully cognizant of the fact that I have been disrespected, rejected and abandoned. He said that this was all coming at him at once. I say he has been ignoring it for years. I started coming here in 2012, gathering info and trying to make my marriage better, and while I was not overly vocal in expressing my concerns, I did try gently persuading him into seeing what was happening to no avail. So I feel like he's being completely unfair in his assessment, just because he couldn't/wouldn't see it. I am so sad, not depressed. I feel like I tried to give him the best years of my life to the best of my ability and I failed. I also feel that I have spent the last 20 years taking care of and trying to make everyone else happy and now I'm tapped out. I don't have the ability to take care of everyone else when I can barely deal with my own stuff. I am so scared and I feel alone. I'm tired of being alone. I have so much chronic physical pain, and this situation is just adding to it. I keep moving forward, I think, keep exercising, eating, socializing with people. It's almost like reacquainting myself with the world. Sex is non existent, and that's my choice. I can now see things that happened in the past for what they were. For example, I spent my second pregnancy alone, while he slept in another room in another bed, and I think it was because I was more comfortable on his side of the bed. I definitely have some guilt surrounding my children and how this has affected them. I can see them, as young men, starting to treat me with less respect, only the difference is that they will tell me they are joking immediately instead of waiting for me to react to them, then telling me they were just kidding. So I know I need to have a conversation with them that acknowledges that I was weak, and not there for them the way I should have been. I just don't have the balls to do it yet.


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