# Sabotage Part Deux. I need advice.



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Part of me thinks im in a better position to handle this right now.
Part of me thinks I'm just that much more vulnerable.
Both of those parts say to me, "you guys are getting better!"

here's the thing:
WE ARE GETTING BETTER.
I see it. I know he sees it.

I handled last week's issue the best way I couldve. The only way HE would ever want me to.
And we had a pretty nice week together.
We were BOTH happy. 

But he walked into MC today intent on just blaming me for all the ways I'm still making mistakes, and the ways I used to, and the ways I did without even realizing it.
I think he's trying to sabotage MC because he's stressed about the expense of it, doesn't want to admit it's working, doesn't want to admit he's learned from it or could still learn from it, so he blames me for all our issues, in order to invalidate MC.

Well, folks, I showed him a different me than he's seen, I showed him the me he complains that I'm NOT:

on the way home, I continued being optimistic, said "we are getting better. Nothing can get better if we just tell each other to change. We need to look at ourselves instead of trying to change each other."
he got nasty, said "we're NOT getting better. If we were getting better, you would be able to shut up right now. Yap yap yap."
so I turned around and walked a different way home.

When I got home, I put my work stuff in my backpack, looked him in the eye, gave him a hug, and said:
"I know you are stressed and preoccuppied about lots of things. AND, that was NOT a nice way to talk to me. I'm leaving."
I'm out at a coffeeshop now.

THAT, my friends, is an EXTREMELY different way for ME to handle something like that.
For ONCE, I didn't wrestle in the mud.

But here's my problem....all the good I've been sensing, feeling, knowing...it really has reignited my love for him, and made me feel closer and more in love with him than I have in awhile.
I can't help feeling down that he would be so negative and glass half-empty and not join me in the glass half-full place where we've been the past few days---together.

I know it's about money, his job, stress, lack of money and job security.
I get that.
How can I support and love him and understand that stress, without allowing him to mis-direct all the blame for his stress onto ME?
CAN I pull my end to keep filling the "good" bank and the "love" bank while he keeps on this false tirade that I'm such a terrible, high-maintenance wife?
Can I keep giving love, feeling good, close, connected, positive, with the risk that he's going to throw one of these "blame credam" fits?

How do I keep giving love, have compassion and empathy, without getting stepped on myself?
I really love him, see his pain, and want to run to him and hug him.
But I don't trust myself not to "discuss." 
AND, he wasn't nice to me.

My gut tells me leaving the house for the evening was the right way to go.

I don't even know if this makes sense to anyone.
Any answers, any help, anything...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I would honestly have to say that at some point I would ask during marriage counseling, if everything is my fault, then what are you responsible for in the marriage? It takes two, so hows your math adding up?

I think you did FANTASTIC by walking away. I think as long as you stick to your boundaries of how you will and will not be spoken to, you will make progress slowly with him. I just have to wonder where all his HATE comes from. He just sounds so da** hateful about a lot of stuff!


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

DawnD said:


> I would honestly have to say that at some point I would ask during marriage counseling, if everything is my fault, then what are you responsible for in the marriage? It takes two, so hows your math adding up?
> 
> I think you did FANTASTIC by walking away. I think as long as you stick to your boundaries of how you will and will not be spoken to, you will make progress slowly with him. I just have to wonder where all his HATE comes from. He just sounds so da** hateful about a lot of stuff!


He knows the parts he's responsible for.

I can honestly say I think he was just having a bad day. Still no excuse, but I think a lot is eating at him and stressing him out, and he could not focus on being positive.

I know it sounds like he is "hateful," but I also know that he has a lot of love in him too, or I wouldn't have married him. I don't know it it's "hate" so much, as anger and fear.

I've known these things for awhile. I'm finally starting to be able to actually take care of MYSELF in a moment like this, and not freak out, fret, and worry how I'm going to get what I need from him--an apology, a re-connection, whatever.

For once I'm just not worried about it. Because I know *I'm* not the one who had all the whining and crying today--he did. *I'm* not the one who had the little tantrum, and for ONCE I'm not turning his strife into MY strife.

The strife still hurts, though. Because I KNOW we can be so much happier, more open, honest, peaceful, and connected than that.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Of course he knows, but will he say it? Will he admit that he is part of this? 

I use hateful to describe when my H is just acting nuts. He is either stressed or tired, whatever it is, and it really puts it into perspective for him when I just tell him, you are being hateful right now. I dunno whats up, but come back when you are gonna be nice to me. LOL

What are your plans for when you return back home??


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

FWIW, I think walking away was the best response to his attitude. I would have done exactly the same thing. Sends a very strong message about boundaries when you won't stay and participate. Well done, Credam.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

DawnD said:


> Of course he knows, but will he say it? Will he admit that he is part of this?
> 
> I use hateful to describe when my H is just acting nuts. He is either stressed or tired, whatever it is, and it really puts it into perspective for him when I just tell him, you are being hateful right now. I dunno whats up, but come back when you are gonna be nice to me. LOL
> 
> What are your plans for when you return back home??


He does know his parts, and has said it. He just tends to point fingers when he feels stressed. To be honest, I'm not sure if he is still out of blame mode, though. Sometimes I think he just transferred blame from his parents onto me, and has YET to really take responsibility for HIS emotions, feelings, reactions, etc.

What do I plan to do when I get home?

I will have a battle inside myself.
Part of me will say "reach out to him, make the connection, invite him to tell you what's really wrong, the stress of not having money or job security..."

The other part will say: 
"Show him you mean what you say when you said things were getting better. YOU felt ok, keep feeling ok, show him you still feel ok. Don't jump in to coddle him after he blamed you and got nasty. He thinks you're going to jump in and talk talk talk...don't."

It really is a battle. The good thing is--I actually feel CAPABLE of doing the second one, the stronger one. That IS a change for me. I used to feel like I "had to" talk to solve. 

But the tough thing is that I am a softy and a "fixer."
His words and blame tonight didn't "hurt" me, even though he was being unfair. I saw HIS hurt. He had tears in his eyes. I was pretty calm, I was kind of like, "okay..."

But it's like a little kid who has a tantrum. I almost feel like if I snuggle up to him all cozy and lovey, I'm rewarding a tantrum. Even if he needs the love, know what I mean?

But the difference is, he's not a toddler. He knows how to be nice. He knows how to "show up" in an MC session to make things productive.

So my gut tells me that when I get back home, I should NOT go to "discuss" anything, and I should maintain the optimism that I had in the first place. 

Show him: 
"I'm optimistic. You're free to be angry. But if you're nasty, I leave the house, and when I come back, don't expect me to join you in your anger."


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I think if you follow through with the part of you that doesn't try to talk to him and maintains your boundaries, its quite possible you will be standing up and showing your boundaries as well as learning how to communicate effectively with him -- and when not to. I would still say "Goodnight babe" or whatever your routine is, but I would leave it at that, and see how it steers you. 

I am seriously very impressed with your reactions to him, you are doing fabulous!


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

major misfit said:


> FWIW, I think walking away was the best response to his attitude. I would have done exactly the same thing. Sends a very strong message about boundaries when you won't stay and participate. Well done, Credam.


Thank you, mm. You are one of the posters who popped in my mind when I thought to myself, "What would ___ do or advise me to do? Walk away."

It is the LAST thing he expects me to do. 

I am proud of myself.

Any advice for when I go home?

I'm trying to stay along the lines of "let him have HIS shix, don't join him in his cesspool" (thanks, Conrad, for the direct quote).


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

DawnD said:


> I think if you follow through with the part of you that doesn't try to talk to him and maintains your boundaries, its quite possible you will be standing up and showing your boundaries as well as learning how to communicate effectively with him -- and when not to. I would still say "Goodnight babe" or whatever your routine is, but I would leave it at that, and see how it steers you.
> 
> I am seriously very impressed with your reactions to him, you are doing fabulous!


Yeah, that's what I'm going to do.

It feels crappy that he acted like that.

But I would feel 100 times MORE crappy if I had joined in and fought right with him.

He knows he was being silly. 
He knows things have been happy.

He was an ineffective communicator with me today.

He was irritated that I drained his car battery (maybe I should've mentioned this in my original post)--I said I was sorry, he didn't yell, but I knew it bugged him.

He's stressed and possibly even depressed that his job isn't secure. I feel for him with that, I really really do.
I know he wants to discuss cutting back on MC.

But doing THAT during an MC session is NOT the way to have that discussion!

He really picks fights with me in ANTICIPATION of what he THINKS I'm thinking or saying or might say, or have said.

Good God, that's not MY problem.

so yes...when I go home I won't allow all that stuff to BE my problem.

I'm tired.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

credamdóchasgra said:


> he got nasty, said "we're NOT getting better. If we were getting better, you would be able to shut up right now. Yap yap yap."
> so I turned around and walked a different way home.


you handled that a hell of a lot better then i would have! i think it is now clear to say, WHAT A JERK!



credamdóchasgra said:


> How can I support and love him and understand that stress, without allowing him to mis-direct all the blame for his stress onto ME?
> CAN I pull my end to keep filling the "good" bank and the "love" bank while he keeps on this false tirade that I'm such a terrible, high-maintenance wife?
> Can I keep giving love, feeling good, close, connected, positive, with the risk that he's going to throw one of these "blame credam" fits?


I think you have to take the pressure off yourself to create love in the marriage- especially to give it after something like that. Comments like the one above will devoid your relationship of love. Its a natural consequence and not one i think you should fight. I dont think its healthy to try and force love when its just not there- at least not in that moment. you are hurt and the most important thing is to identify and cope with your pain, not try and force love in the relationship.

Things like that are going to hurt you and you'll have to experience that hurt. There will be less love in the relationship and you'll have to back off emotionally. Let him see your hurt and hopefully he can see that he's hurt you and change. If he never see's that he's hurt you, however, and that he loses love by doing that, then he'll never learn. If you force a pseudo love in the relationship he wont learn and he'll continue to be a jerk.

That does not mean you dont feel empathy for the stress he's under. Maybe he is under stress but let him know that if he is, then expressing it that way is not only not going to get his need met, its going to push you away. that is what i say to my H when he's being passive aggressive. I feel bad for your H, he sounds emotionally very messed up, but that doesnt make him immune to the consequences of his actions.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Blanca, what is your advice for me to do right now?
I know I handled that well, but what's the best way to handle things NOW?

I do not want to believe that he's just a jerk. 
Irreparably emotionally stunted.
I want to believe that he loves me and can love me.

What is your advice to me?


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

C...you don't want to be like me. Truly. Many, many reasons for that. All of them good and valid.

I do think you handled the situation perfectly. And IF I WERE YOU, when I got home I'd carry on as usual. You can't let him bring you down. If he were to reach out to you after this, by all means...welcome him. In lieu of that, just bide your time. Let him do some thinking. 

You know we lash out at the people we love the most. Sometimes I think it's b/c we trust them enough to continue to love us at our worst. That's not saying it's fair, or that it doesn't cause resentment and anger..it's just what I think. I'm sure he does love you. IMHO, in spite of lack of trust at times, he trusts you enough to believe you'll still be there for him. 

Kicking and screaming, sweetie...kicking and screaming. YOU are doing great. Don't be bullied into stopping counseling, though. Hang tough on that one. If he ever stops going, you continue. You have come a long way, baby....


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

major misfit said:


> C...you don't want to be like me. Truly. Many, many reasons for that. All of them good and valid.
> 
> I do think you handled the situation perfectly. And IF I WERE YOU, when I got home I'd carry on as usual. You can't let him bring you down. If he were to reach out to you after this, by all means...welcome him. In lieu of that, just bide your time. Let him do some thinking.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. I know a lot of this is true.
I'm on my way home, sobbing my eyes out (stopped, don't worry), and your post is going to help me go home.
Let him do some thinking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I got home. Silence. 
He's acting like he actually HAS something to be mad at me for.
I don't get it.
My typical role is to swoop in and initiate a reparative talk.
Sometimes that helps.
But Im not the one who had a problem. So why should I initiate a reparative talk?
*I* don't have anything to repair.
I've been making these changes. He must be blind if he doesn't see them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I bit, just a little. 

I said: "honey I know there are a lot of things stressing you out."
he said: "do you know that you're one of them?"
I said loudly and firmly: "I am your partner. That's how I see you. do NOT reduce me to a 'thing' that is stressing you out. You KNOW that's not all i am. You KNOW that."
then I went to bed.

what
else
can 
I
do
?

My God...

Help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Do not engage further.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

At this point if you engage, to some degree you are indicating willingness to take some of HIS responsibility. 

He is the one who has/had the issue. 

He will have to either face himself and take responsibility by doing something like coming to you and saying, "Honey that was me--I was stressing about the money and lashed out" or he will avoid facing himself and look for reasons to blame you. 

He is in a position that is new and/or unusual to him. He's used to you giving him a reason to blame you. If you don't engage him and he can't blame you...he will have to go through some other options, like trying to tempt you back into the old patterns or trying to something new himself or finally just being responsible for his choice!

Hey--here's the fact. He's stressed about money. None of us is perfect. We all make mistakes and yell at our spouses. There's nothing awful about making a mistake and owning up to it and apologizing. Now, give him the time so he can figure that out.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Well, I failed this test.
Things got a LOT worse.
Major backslide. 
I'm too ashamed to even share the details here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

C...you're still trying to chart your course. Sometimes you have to just let the ship float. But that's ok...apparently you're new to sailing...

Very weak on my part. Just know I know that. When you're ready....we're here.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I think individual counseling for me may help more than MC.
Not because I'm the only one who needs to work.
But because he's not consistently open to MC working.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I think individual counseling for me may help more than MC.
> Not because I'm the only one who needs to work.
> But because he's not consistently open to MC working.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

major misfit said:


>


no, it could be a good thing.

I know that when I have emotional self-control, he turns to putty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

He blamed yelled cussed raged then left.
Says he's going away for weekend.
I scheduled ind counseling for tonorrow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Sorry to hear things didn't go as planned. Always sucks when that happens. Go with what works, if you think IC might help, then go for it! Can't hurt, right?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

UPDATE:

I left the house to stay with a friend overnight.
I made an appt for ind counseling tomorrow.

This is what I believe my H is doing:

1. Clinging for dear life to the notion that I'm the one causing all the problems, so it's not MC we need, it's a lobotomy for me, and I need to just lighten up and never have any feelings.
2. Transferring blame from his parents onto me.
3: pushing me away with his words because he's terrified of the give-and-take of intimacy
4. Being destructive

I failed last night to keep my mouth shut, so things got worse.
He got ugly with his words, let's just put it that way. 
Stormed out and slept at a hotel.
This morning came home and we got into it again.

When I go back home tomorrow (I have to), what should I do, how should I act?

My hope is that ind counseling will help ME to stay rational when he pushes my buttons.
Then maybe he won't fly off the handle and become destructive.
Meaning: If I don't react, he won't overreact.
And I won't be as hurt by his button-pushing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alone in love (Nov 10, 2009)

You have given me great advice in the past and I feel so helpless to give you advice. But I truly think that you are going above and beyond to reach out to him. And I believe he expects it and is always ready to attack. I know how it feels to be cut down like that - I've reached out to my husband so many times, only to be hurt deeply. The more you put yourself out on a limb, the more chances he has to hurt you. I would reach out in counseling and try not to be so caring, loving, understanding, and helpful at home. You did not deserve to be treated that way and you should try to protect your heart. I found that writing down the things I would like to say keeps me from saying them, and therefore keeps me from getting hurt. It stinks, it's stupid, and it's not the way I would prefer to be, but this is the way it is right now. I am sorry for you pain - I truly know how it feels.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

It if were me, I just wouldn't engage in any conversations when you go home. Business as usual, do what you normally do, just don't engage in any conversations. Give him the time to come to you. Don't be pissy about it or anything, not saying that, but just keep on trucking and let everything simmer. See if he will come to you given the opportunity. Maybe, maybe not. I hope he does, but I certainly can't promise it.

Don't be too hard on yourself. No one has all the answers, we are all just trying to get to that happy place.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

My birthday is in a week. I turn 31.

I know he was planning something.
I want to be able to count on him.

Thank you people SO MUCH for your support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

credamdóchasgra said:


> My birthday is in a week. I turn 31.
> 
> I know he was planning something.
> I want to be able to count on him.
> ...


I would throw you a party at my place, but that usually ends up with two or three people buck naked on front lawn passed out, and I am usually one of the three  Just kidding. Maybe.

I know what you mean about counting on him, but right now, put all your money on you until its clear that you CAN put your money on him.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

He demands instant change from me, but doesn't expect the same from himself.
When it comes to him, it's: "cut me some slack! I can't change on a dime! Be patient!"
when it comes to me, it's: "you've proven that yiu can't change!"

no slack for me. No patience for me.

He's stewing in a cesspool and I only hope he can see beyond this warped view.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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