# Wife tuning out



## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

Almost 15yrs of marriage and I love my wife. We have three wonderful kids. We both work, however she chooses to work part time to have time with the kids and I support her decision. 

Issues:
Over the past 5yrs mainly my wife has less and less interest in our marriage. Everything has to be about the children. When we do have brief time together in the day usually the evening, she just wants to watch TV or read her book. She has no interest in talking about each others day or cuddling. She has no expression of when I am home, get home or am around. I get home from work she might say hello but there is little acknowledgement. More and more I feel like the guy that puts money in the account, provides re-leaf with kid duties and fixes stuff around the house. When I suggest we talk about our marriage and each other, she waves it off as too busy or everything is fine. 

Money:
When I suggest we spend some time together its the usual response of, "I'm too busy" and "we can't afford it". Since day one we have always kept separate bank accounts with one shared account. She is very frugal, I am not (but not reckless) and it works this way. If we ever go out, its always expected I am buying. I am fine with this, I am just happy she went out. If the family needs something like a new TV, its put to me to purchase. Again I am fine with that. We make about the same, however I work more so I usually have the money to spend. I spend quite a bit on toys for my kids, I am a big kid so we have fun playing with them together. However lately she has started telling them "ask your Dad, he will buy it for you." Not happy about that, just makes me feel more of a piggy bank. Over all I don't feel we have any real relationship money issues. 

Helping around the house:
When I have got her to tell me what she needs from me, its to help out more around the house. I make it a point to do the dishes and clean the kitchen. She purposely leaves a pile of dishes and the dishwasher loaded knowing I will take care of it. I do it. When I do other things like cleaning, its not the way she wants it, tells me and redoes it herself. 

Physical:
My wife is the most beautiful woman in the world. And I tell her this. Of course the typical passionate early years of marriage for us. Now she avoids physical contact. Simple hugs are rare and even rarer is a passionate kiss. She has little interest in sex and set a once a week night for sex years ago. At first this worked, she was into it and of course I counted the days down to that night. Over time this turned into a burden for her and more and more she just tolerated limited contact/quick sex. This has been almost solid the past 6 months. I have gotten to the point that even though I want to have sex with her I do not as I feel like its hurting her (like forced). Also sex for me is more that just the physical part I want the intimacy. She has no interest in intimacy. Now its maybe once a month, with me initiating. She expresses interest but its very one way, and still "must be fast". 

Marriage:
I love, or used to love to send her love notes at work or during the day. Flowers on odd days just because. I tell her I love her when ever I can. I used to end every phone call with her "I love you." I don't remember the last time she said "I love you". She never responds or comments on my notes (little e-mails or txt's) that I send her. She has told me to not waste money on flowers.  For our anniversary each year it gets simpler and simpler to the point of this last yr she did not even give me a card. I stopped buying her jewelry as she never wares it. Birthday and Christmas is now no gifts/special acknowledgements unless its little ones from the kids. (candy bar etc.) When I do get her to go out, its always limited to just one thing like dinner somewhere then rush back home. She loves musicals so when we went to see one recently I suggested we go have a nice dinner before hand. She felt that was crazy she is too busy. If we go out, she never dresses for me. If she goes out with her girl friends, she is dressed smoke'n hot. I don't expect smoke'n hot when we do something but now and then would be nice. 

What to do?
I hear "I am so busy" and "I never have time for myself". I know the two days a week she is home and the kids are at school are not spent sleeping in. She cleans and does shopping etc. But when time is offered she declines. 

Recently I had to attend a conference in a warm climate. It would be 4 nights in a 4 star hotel all expenses paid. It took convening but she agreed to join me. I used airline miles and booked us both first class seats there and back. I was looking forward to spending 5hrs of time each way together. I found a few nice restaurants we could go to. She would see me in the late afternoon and evening, but the rest of the time was 100% hers. My parents all lined up to watch the kids as they still had school. (My wife is comfortable with my parents too) Two days before we left my wife canceled. She said she thought she would be bored and did not want to be away from the kids that long. 

I feel like our marriage is just slipping away. We used to be so happy together, spending time talking, physical, doing new things. Now its this "I'm to busy" and just checking out. I am starting to just respond with the same, don't care attitude. It scares me as I see it being the beginning of the end. We keep up the same degradation of our relationship, there will be nothing left in 10yrs when our kids are out of the house. Then what? 

How do I bring my wife back around into our relationship? How do I convince her to actively participate in our relationship?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How often does she go out without you? Do you have access to her phone. Does she text a lot?


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

chapparal said:


> How often does she go out without you? Do you have access to her phone. Does she text a lot?


We go out just the two of us, just a few times a year. We will meet up with other couples about once a month, then its the girls talking and the guys talking thing. Our couples friends are more her friends. Usually have the kids with us as well. I have suggested my wife and I meet for a drink after work, for a quick time together but she is always to busy. Its true our kids have sports, she wants to get a run in etc. but I think its not impossible for us to make the time. 

As for her phone, I can see her use of it (her phone is on my account). I really don't think she's cheating on me if that is your thought. She is very low tech so I have set everything up for her, Facebook, home email her phone. I have access to all of those. Never seen anything that was out of the norm.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Oh crap..my husband and I fell into that rut. You need to get real serious with her. My husband suggested marriage counselling and I said no. I just unplugged. You need to tell her you are not happy with this at all. Write her a letter of what you said here. Let her know if she is not willing to go to marriage counselling then maybe it's time to think about divorce. Seriously, I landed up having an emotional affair and I hate to see that happen to anyone else when it could be avoided. If you get serious about marriage counselling or divorce hopefully it will wake her up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

RomanticHusband, you appear to be the epitome of what is described as a : MEAL TICKET.
Do you really think this scenario is a good one for your children to grow up thinking as "ideal"?
If you don't think they are aware, you and your uncaring wife are kidding yourselves.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

Your wife has it all you've turned into a doormat. You are just like the puppy in your picture waiting for love and to be petted by her.

First, you need to change yourself. Don't be predictable. Go to the gum, change your appearance, make her wonder. Flirt with others, show her that you can still get someone else.

Then you need to have a talk to her about all this. Don't be such a nice guy anymore. This is how affairs happen - she will go for the bad boy who uses her on one of those girls nights out and then run in tears to the comfort of the nice guy.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*You need to have a serious talk with her asap.Also you should start fixing yourself up. You start buying some new underwear too. You need to get yourself a pair of nice jeans . Then you start going out the house for an hour or two (by yourself) . Let her notice you again looking hot and sexy. I am wishing you good luck *.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Are you saying that your wife doesn't go out alone or with girlfriends?

The reason I ask is the number of red flags she is displaying.

Hopefully, she is not in an affair.........yet. she is however, aprime candidate for starting one.

This needs to be taken care of immediately.

The first thing is get the book MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER, its not a sexmanual. Also get HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS.

80% of affairs go undetected by the way.

Checking texts, numbers should be checked to see the quantity of texts to 1 or 2 numbers.

Do you have the password to her phone and email accts?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Chap is right but let me add that you need to up your "A" game.

No more asking her on dates.

Get a new wardrobe. Get yourself in shape if you are not.

Get a little mysterious. And the next time she is planning to go somewhere say "Sorry but I made plans". Then go out and do something with friends, new friends or just yourself.

Improve you.

My wife has never been away on a business trip with me and we are married 20 been together 26.

I started taking my dad on these trips and we had a blast. My wife always uses the kids as an excuse. I let her.

Until our oldest went to college. I would then make these trips with my wife alone in a hotel. Took her shopping, dinner and then we reconnected.

It was our first time alone since my wife was pregnant with this daughter. 18 years since we were alone in a hotel together. 

She got the message! And she loved it! We had an awesome time and now have these date weekends. And sometimes I bring our two youngest and make it a family weekend.

It is not easy balancing a marriage and a family. It takes compromise and communication. But you should not be ignored either.

So I know where you are coming from but it really matters how you handle this situation.

You need to open up the communication and she needs to communicate with you.

Do not give up......

HM64


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

How often does she go out with her friends? Does she actually go out with them and not go somewhere. Does she play any online games with untraceable chat features in them. Prepaid phone? Maybe she is smart enough not to use technology and meet whoever in person only.

The best way to reach your wife if her actions aren't affair related is to print out what you posted here and show her. (don't mention this site and reword it as a letter to her only) Make her set down and go over it together. Have a serious heart to heart that cannot be avoided or ignored. Make her have time. Fight for your marriage, don't tip toe around the issue.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

RH,

Your wife is flying red flags by the score.

How often does your wife dress up "smokin' hot", as you put it, and go out with her girlfriends? Where do they go? When does she get back? 

How often do women hit on you? Would you know it if they were?


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Check out her drawers for new lingerie, condoms, overnight bags, check the glove compartment in her car, Check the trunk and underneath the spare tire area.
This is making you paranoid but her actions are really suspicious from what you posted. You need to look harder without her noticing of course.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

You and more so your wife sound to be stuck in a comfortable rut.

You sound to have a stable, safe lifestyle with all your material needs meet. 

This is good but you both deserve more.

I would be warry about making big changes to your lifestyle (new cloths. evenings out without her etc) as that may just make her think you are the one who is not commited to the relationship. 

Make some time (kids to their grandparents) if only overnight for the two of you to realy talk about what is important to each of you as individuals and as a couple / family. You must try and have a propper conversation about how you both feel. If you are finding this hard then you could ask a mutual freind / trusted family member / minister / concelor for help.

Best of luck.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *You need to have a serious talk with her asap.Also you should start fixing yourself up. You start buying some new underwear too. You need to get yourself a pair of nice jeans . Then you start going out the house for an hour or two (by yourself) . Let her notice you again looking hot and sexy. I am wishing you good luck *.


I wish more men had open eyes to read and practice this. I had to land on my nose several times till just treating myself like a king actually got me the treatment I wanted.

Best summary


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I wouldn't make the assumption that your wife is cheating on you at this point in time; however, it would be beneficial for you to put this possibility to bed ASAP. As others stated, look to see if she has recently bought sexy clothes, lingerie, underwear, etc that you don't see. Look at her e-mail, FB and other social media sites she may be on plus her cell phone to ensure that she is not sending gobs of texts (and deleting them) to one or a few people. If she is going out with friends - and dressed to kill - you need to verify her whereabouts and timeline some of her recent activities to see if what she tells you and what you actually observe squares up.

But at this point, my instincts tell me that your wife has gone into "super mom" mode and has forgotten that she is a wife and has a lover (you). I think it's a common trap to fall into where you two pour everything into your kids and forget who you are actually married to.

What I would do is to set up sitters to take the kids and make your wife go out with you on a romantic date. I'm guessing you have parents living close by that could watch the kids - possibly even overnight? The fact that one set of parents was willing to watch the kids while she goes to a nice place with you for a week indicates that other people in your life recognizes that you two need to spend more quality time together.


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

Thank you for all the responses. I know I am no perfect jem, I am a good 30lbs heavier than I should be. I am not unattractive but being more fit would help. My wife is very fit. I work, allot. But I have to work allot to support my family. I do make a strong point to spend time with my kids. During the school yr its school or sports for them all year. So we are always shuffling kids around and that usually is our weekends. Regarding sports, I am not one of those guys that's a huge sports nut. 




Machiavelli said:


> RH,
> 
> Your wife is flying red flags by the score.
> 
> ...


Once a month or so she dresses up and is out with her girl friends. All of her friends are married as well, and very chatty if there was any cheating going on. It would be on the wire with her friends. 

I don't get hit on often but it does happen. About a month ago was the last time. I swung the conversation around about my wife and kids and she took it down a notch. Before that was in the summer, and that woman made it very clear she did not care I was married. Very flattering but I was not interested. The long spells without sex of course can put thoughts in a guys head. Have not cheated on her and do not want to. 




chapparal said:


> Are you saying that your wife doesn't go out alone or with girlfriends?
> 
> The reason I ask is the number of red flags she is displaying.
> 
> ...


Thank you I will look into those books. Yes I have access to her accounts, and can track her cell phone via GPS if I wanted to. If she is cheating it would have to be an emotional relationship with someone she works with. Her txt'ing and e-mails are normal. I doubt she has a pre-paid phone hidden away. Also she does not use a pass code for her phone. 




mrstj4sho88 said:


> *You need to have a serious talk with her asap.Also you should start fixing yourself up. You start buying some new underwear too. You need to get yourself a pair of nice jeans . Then you start going out the house for an hour or two (by yourself) . Let her notice you again looking hot and sexy. I am wishing you good luck *.


For the past 4 months I have started taking care of me better. I have lost 12lbs and started working out again. I have not bought new clothes but that is a good idea. Me out of the house is usually working. See the point of going out with friends and doing "stuff". I will try to start doing that more. 

About the same time I started working out again I stopped paying for everything. For example she commented that our son was invited to an expensive outing and we could not afford it. I told her to be sure to articulate that to our son that SHE felt we could not afford it, therefor he would not be attending. Our son did attend and we as a family covered the experiences, instead of ATM Dad. 



Plan 9 from OS said:


> ...
> 
> But at this point, my instincts tell me that your wife has gone into "super mom" mode and has forgotten that she is a wife and has a lover (you). I think it's a common trap to fall into where you two pour everything into your kids and forget who you are actually married to.
> 
> What I would do is to set up sitters to take the kids and make your wife go out with you on a romantic date. I'm guessing you have parents living close by that could watch the kids - possibly even overnight? The fact that one set of parents was willing to watch the kids while she goes to a nice place with you for a week indicates that other people in your life recognizes that you two need to spend more quality time together.


I think you nailed it here. She is playing supper Mom. She is up in the morning before everyone else, and always cleaning, doing laundry etc. If its not those she is running on her tread mill at the house. 

When she canceled going on the business trip with me, I was direct that I felt we needed couple time alone. She agreed to do a quick weekend trip flying to a nice city for a two night stay. We leave in a few weeks for that one. My parents live about an hour away and will be watching the kids for us. I think on this trip I will talk with her about how I have been feeling. 

I have tried talking with her before about this. She listens, and acknowledges what I am saying, but when I ask her what she needs she says more time for herself, or nothing. Of course that frustrates me as she turns down the times to herself I have tried to provide.

I will try again talking with her on our trip. I will also continue to do more for me. Just sucks to play games, but I understand it would be helpful for her to see me outside of the norm.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

It might be a good idea to write her a letter not a mean letter but a love letter that also includes your concerns..With a letter she can read it over again and digest what you are saying better  good luck to you...lot's of people get in a rut in their marriage. The books should help alot..didn't you say she likes to read?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

RomanticHusband said:


> Almost 15yrs of marriage and I love my wife. We have three wonderful kids. We both work, however she chooses to work part time to have time with the kids and I support her decision.
> 
> Issues:
> Over the past 5yrs mainly my wife has less and less interest in our marriage. Everything has to be about the children. When we do have brief time together in the day usually the evening, she just wants to watch TV or read her book. She has no interest in talking about each others day or cuddling. She has no expression of when I am home, get home or am around. I get home from work she might say hello but there is little acknowledgement. More and more I feel like the guy that puts money in the account, provides re-leaf with kid duties and fixes stuff around the house. When I suggest we talk about our marriage and each other, she waves it off as too busy or everything is fine.
> ...


I am so sorry about this but glad you found this forum.

My concerns are the same as yours. "Super Moms" like your wife that love & like their husbands MAKE time to talk, spend time & show affection to their husbands. She is making excuses not to spend time with you. She doesn't want to.

I worked full-time, commuted 1 hr. each way, raised 2 children involved in constant weekday & weekend sports, etc. & spent 15 minutes alone with my husband when he came home from work discussing our days w/o the children present.

You need to find the courage to address this situation head-on. If she refuses to be honest & blows you off with lame excuses, book a marriage counseling appointment & invite her to come along. Again if she refuses, go alone (I did).

Also once no cheating is verified, she may be a walk-away-wife. Research that. When the kids are grown, she walks.

Good luck.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

RomanticHusband said:


> More and more I feel like the guy that puts money in the account, provides re-leaf with kid duties and fixes stuff around the house.
> 
> Not happy about that, just makes me feel more of a piggy bank. Over all I don't feel we have any real relationship money issues.
> 
> ...


RomanticHusband,

You are letting your wife drive your marriage like a car over a cliff. To the extent that you allow yourself to feel this way or that way as a result of your wife's actions, you are basically putting someone in the driver's seat of your marriage who doesn't have a map, let alone a destination.

Take charge here. Be assertive. Ask (nicely) for what you want. Let her know in certain terms what you are expecting in the way of companionship, words of endearment, touch and intimacy. Don't worry about what she does or doesn't do, worry about yourself. Kiss her morning, noon and night and every time you see her. Hold her hand, put your arm around her, tell her you love her every time you get the chance. You are the one letting your marriage slip away because you are letting her have way too much effect on what you do or don't do.

Look, if your wife decides she wants to leave because you want to hold her or kiss her or make love to her too much for her tastes, let her go and be done with it. But I don't think that's the way it will play out.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

RH, 

The first thing you need to do is to download and read "Married Man Sex Life Primer." It explains in a very PC-like, inoffensive way what is necessary to maintain a woman's attraction in an LTR. It's rock solid and is not a sex manual. Read it tonight.

The same guy has a blog.

You also need to understand The Sixteen Commandments.
 The very un-PC truths at that website are also invaluable, but read MMSL first.




RomanticHusband said:


> Thank you for all the responses. I know I am no perfect jem, I am a good 30lbs heavier than I should be. I am not unattractive but being more fit would help. My wife is very fit.


It is a proven fact (as proven as anything ever has been when the study is conducted by "soft-science" types) that the more fit a woman is, the more she's attracted to fitter guys. You need to get rid of the gut and bring your body into compliance with "The Golden Ratio" which is a waist right under the ribs of 32" or smaller and a chest at the nipples of 42" or larger. That V torso has been proven to trigger limbic attraction among most women cross culturally and trans-racially.

Cut out all grain products including beer and cut out all sugar and high fructose corn syrup. Drop fruit until you get the torso right. Look up "Paleo" eating.



RomanticHusband said:


> I work, allot. But I have to work allot to support my family. I do make a strong point to spend time with my kids. During the school yr its school or sports for them all year. So we are always shuffling kids around and that usually is our weekends. Regarding sports, I am not one of those guys that's a huge sports nut.


If time is an issue, use High Intensity Training as your workout format. Get this book:









The workouts are very intensive, but only take about 15 minutes. Eat right and you'll make great strides.




RomanticHusband said:


> Once a month or so she dresses up and is out with her girl friends. All of her friends are married as well, and very chatty if there was any cheating going on. It would be on the wire with her friends.


Where do they go? Macdonalds? Are there any men there over age 12? 



RomanticHusband said:


> I don't get hit on often but it does happen. About a month ago was the last time.


Your wife has no sexual attraction for you and she doesn't see other women having it either, confirming her conclusion. women are herd animals. You need to raise your sex rank pronto. You can take off 30# of fat in three months on Paleo, Slow Carb, or Atkins. The HIT training will speed things up. This is the look you need to get ASAP:









While you're working on that, read MMSL.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Your marriage is in serious trouble and you need counseling.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

This carries the stench of Nice Guy syndrome. Stop suggesting and asking. Start making decisions and taking action. Up the alpha. She can't treat you like a meal ticket if you act like a man.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you downloaded MMSL yet?

Check WillK's thread out:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...on/46623-thank-you-married-mans-sex-life.html

Amen


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

UPDATE:

This week will be our first counseling appointment. I have confronted her directly as to her intentions for our marriage. I ask her if she sees us still married in 5 yrs still. She says yes. I ask does she see us still married after the kids move out, she says "I think so". She claims she has gotten board, therefore little interest in our marriage. 

I am disappointed to hear this since I have always gone out of my way for her. Trying to make her happy, with notes, gifts, try to spend time together when she will allow it. So she is bored because I am being too nice. I dislike the idea of playing games. But honestly if I go 2-3 days of ignoring her basically mirroring her behavior (my reaction occasionally when she really pushes me away), all I have to do on the 3rd day is reach out to her and kiss her she responds. 

Over the last two months I have been not doing all the little notes, e-mails etc. No flowers or attempted dinners out. I have put most extra spending on her on hold, making her buy her own cell phone upgrade etc. Also curbed large splurges for the kids. I have also lessened my approaching her for a hug or kiss. I have just gone about my business. 

I have continued to work on me. Hitting the gym hard three times a week with added runs in between. I have also continued to have a modified diet and can see I have lost weight. Been getting comments lately as well. 

Machiavelli: 36" waist with a 44" chest. I do wear a fitted suit. Last time I wore a 32" pair of pants I think I was 16. I was a 34" when I was in my early 20's. 6mths ago I was a 38". 

chapparal: Yes I have downloaded it and starting to read it now.


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

Overall very happy we are going into counseling this week. She says she is going since I ask. She thinks its all based around me wanting more sex. I have shared with her the #1 reason is getting back the connection between the two of us, that is slipping away. I also told her I feel myself giving up at times wanting to fight for our marriage. She responded that she also feels the same. I told her I was actually glad to hear that since up to that point she has never expressed or acknowledged any form of fighting or working on our marriage.

She says she wants me to hear in counseling that she wants me to do more around the house. I welcome that discussion. Honestly I welcome ANY discussion with her regarding actually working on our marriage. 

Sure hope this counselor is good.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Your wife is gone. They don't come back. Don't count on the counselor to fix anything. It doesn't work.

Work on you for you and your kids. Live your life. She's gone.

I know because that's what walk-away wives do.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

So after 3 days of ignoring her, then she responds somewhat favorably to you? Okay, then I would keep doing that--well, not completely ignoring her, but definitely don't do the flowers thing, or the love-you notes or any of that mushy relationship stuff. Don't do anything that makes you look needy.

Keep working on you, keep hitting the weights hard and explore your own interests, so she'll get the message loud and clear that you'll do just fine, in fact even flourish, if she were to be out of your life.

4" to go on getting to that 32" waist!


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

RomanticHusband said:


> Overall very happy we are going into counseling this week. She says she is going since I ask. She thinks its all based around me wanting more sex. I have shared with her the #1 reason is getting back the connection between the two of us, that is slipping away. I also told her I feel myself giving up at times wanting to fight for our marriage. She responded that she also feels the same. I told her I was actually glad to hear that since up to that point she has never expressed or acknowledged any form of fighting or working on our marriage.
> 
> *She says she wants me to hear in counseling that she wants me to do more around the house*. I welcome that discussion. Honestly I welcome ANY discussion with her regarding actually working on our marriage.
> 
> Sure hope this counselor is good.


Wake up! You are working more than full time and she want YOU to do more around the house? She has her money and ATM hubby and now she want more of a house husband than you have already been. You obviously haven't read enough. Stop being a doormat. You need to man up How old are the kids. I was doing laundry in early grade school. Your problems will not get better by you doing more at home. You need to do less!


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## FrustratedHub (Oct 28, 2011)

RomanticHusband said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> This week will be our first counseling appointment. I have confronted her directly as to her intentions for our marriage. I ask her if she sees us still married in 5 yrs still. *She says yes. I ask does she see us still married after the kids move out, she says "I think so".*


Wow, just wow. Long time lurker here, and I felt compelled to go through the "forgot username password" process on the website just so I could respond.

I will give her credit for being honest, that is definitely a positive sign. Just me reading between the lines, the comment I highlighted says I'm in it for the kids and your financial support. Once the kids are out, so am I.

I'm betting you probably heard the same thing and know this already. The question is, what are you going to do about it. I think counseling is a very good first step. That said, I think at some point in the not too distant future, you need to have a "come to Jesus" discussion with her where you draw a line in the sand and outline *exactly and in no uncertain terms* what it is you need from her and out of your marriage. You note that you aren't expecting miracles and a 100% change overnight, and that you will work with her, but you need to see steady progress (towards whatever you outlined in your discussion) and most important of all, you need to see the effort.

If she cannot agree with this, or if you don't see the proper level of effort of sustainment, then you need to start making plans for terminating the marriage on your terms (IMHO). Take the bull by the horns here and be assertive. One of two things will happen here:

1. You knock her ass into reality, and she realizes she has a great husband and provider and starts to pull her weight as a wife in the marriage (which is the preferred outcome).
2. She fails to see the problem at all, or at least to the level that you do, and does not meet the standards you set, and you move to terminate the marriage (safe in assuming here that this is NOT the preferred outcome).

Understand that you have no influence or say so in how this plays out, it is totally and completely up to her. What you need to do (and it sounds like you have done a hell of a job thus far) is concentrate on yourself and your well-being, and that of your children, and let this play out to it's logical conclusion.

I pray that you stay strong throughout this journey, and stand by your self worth as a man and husband in demanding more from your wife and marriage. If she makes the choices that lead to the dissolution of your marriage, you will at least know that you stood up for your marriage and yourself as a man, and that you did everything you could to save it.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

RomanticHusband said:


> She says she wants me to hear in counseling that she wants me to do more around the house.


Wrong, wrong, wrong as hell. You already work more hours than her, and now she wants you to also take on some of her chores?

IMHO, your wife has *superwoman syndrome*. She has bought into the great feminist lie that a woman can have it all. She is overloaded and won't let go of anything, because that would mean she failed as a modern woman.

Make a list of all the things your wife does, and prioritize it the way you think she would. My guess is it would look something like this:

Career
Children
Working out
Girl's night out
Cooking
Housework
Sleeping
Reading
Talking to friends on phone/internet
Helping her parents
...
Husband

My guess is whatever her activites are and no matter how you order them, you will be on the bottom--*you are the lowest priority in her life*.

She doesn't need more help, she needs to do less. She needs to simplify her life. She needs to realize she can't have it all, and decide what she can live without.

BTW, she already knows she can't do it all, and has decided to sacrifice sex and intimacy with you so she can have these other things. You need to make it clear that being on the bottom of her life's priority list is unacceptable.


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## FrustratedHub (Oct 28, 2011)

Blue Firefly said:


> Wrong, wrong, wrong as hell. You already work more hours than her, and now she wants you to also take on some of her chores?
> 
> IMHO, your wife has *superwoman syndrome*. She has bought into the great feminist lie that a woman can have it all. She is overloaded and won't let go of anything, because that would mean she failed as a modern woman.
> 
> ...


Could not have said it better myself. This goes hand in hand with my previous post. The first step is to tell her that by her actions, it is clear to you that you (and by definition your marriage) are at the bottom of her life's priority list, and that is no longer acceptable to you.

That said, I don't think you can just throw that out there by itself. I think you need to have a list of things you want and need to change, very specific things, and then set out a course for getting there. Stand firm in your convictions, and don't accept anything less.

If you aren't getting what you asked for and know you deserve, at some point you need to have the conversation where you say in no uncertain terms that you will be leaving the marriage if things don't change. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing it's going to take this conversation and dose of reality to really get her attention and get any meaningful effort and change. The key here is though, you have to mean it when you say it, and you have to be mentally prepared to follow through on your words.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

RH,

These posters are correct in that your wife sees you as a Beta-Provider Male and other than your ability to act like a work mule to support her lifestyle and her children, you are of little value.

You say you don't like games, but your wife does respond to you when you appeal to her limbic attraction system. Well, it may be called "Game" when you understand what behaviors turn on women, but keeping your wife sexually interested in you is no game; it's a vital part of having a successful marriage. Women are not men with different plumbing; their mind works in a different way. Most women are not attracted to most men. Keep working on the attraction (32" waist) while keeping your chest at 46" and you will be in the minority that they (including your wife) are attracted to.

Since you are still not getting what I would consider satisfactory results, I take it you not yet read MMSLP? Do it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Have you considered sitting down and asking her if she still wants to be married to you? Tell her that it's clear she doesn't care to spend time with you and clearly doesn't enjoy your company so if that's how she feels you will be happy to split up amicably and move on. This puts the ball in her court and also lets her know that while you would like to have a marriage if she doesn't you understand and will be fine without her. It's a form of the 180. See what she says and watch her actions, that will tell you all you need to know. Everyone should be willing to lose a relationship with someone that's not interested.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

It would be a huge turn on for me if my husband started working out and found a hobby and some friends. I want him to have a life. All he does is work. I think I'd faint if he ever planned a trip for us and even arranged the child care. When my son was small, it was hard for me to take time for myself because I felt super guilty. Your wife seems burnt out and maybe a little depressed. Maybe it has nothing to do with you..it could be the way she feels about herelf.


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

KanDo said:


> Wake up! You are working more than full time and she want YOU to do more around the house? She has her money and ATM hubby and now she want more of a house husband than you have already been. You obviously haven't read enough. Stop being a doormat. You need to man up How old are the kids. I was doing laundry in early grade school. Your problems will not get better by you doing more at home. You need to do less!


Agreed. This is why I welcome that conversation with a 3rd party. Up to me starting to work out regularly, my waking time is: Work, family. Thats it. I don't even watch TV on my own. (not a sports guy so never watching games etc.) Now I spend 3-5hrs a week working out for me as well. I do not feel selfish at all for it. 




FrustratedHub said:


> Wow, just wow. Long time lurker here, and I felt compelled to go through the "forgot username password" process on the website just so I could respond.
> 
> I will give her credit for being honest, that is definitely a positive sign. Just me reading between the lines, the comment I highlighted says I'm in it for the kids and your financial support. Once the kids are out, so am I.
> 
> ...


Thanks and agreed. 



Blue Firefly said:


> Wrong, wrong, wrong as hell. You already work more hours than her, and now she wants you to also take on some of her chores?
> 
> IMHO, your wife has *superwoman syndrome*. She has bought into the great feminist lie that a woman can have it all. She is overloaded and won't let go of anything, because that would mean she failed as a modern woman.
> 
> ...


You are correct with this. In fact Sunday I made such a list when we talked about this. 1. kids 2. self 3. career 4.working out etc. with me no where near the top.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> BTW, she already knows she can't do it all, and has decided to sacrifice sex and intimacy with you so she can have these other things. You need to make it clear that being on the bottom of her life's priority list is unacceptable.


Are you kidding me ? He isn't "getting' the benefit of her working?He didn't want kids?Hes not stuffing his face with her meals?
Hey dudes..marry a woman who doesn't work..hates children ..and likes to eat out ..if that's the "list" of complaints.And yeah its not that hard for her to get laid if she is horny either.

:scratchhead:


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> It would be a huge turn on for me if my husband started working out and found a hobby and some friends. I want him to have a life. All he does is work. I think I'd faint if he ever planned a trip for us and even arranged the child care. When my son was small, it was hard for me to take time for myself because I felt super guilty. Your wife seems burnt out and maybe a little depressed. Maybe it has nothing to do with you..it could be the way she feels about herelf.


I honestly think she is depressed and has been for some time. I even approached her about it a few yrs ago. She snapped at that thought and was pissed that I did not just recognize she was so overworked and just tired. Either way I am hoping the professional counselor could possibly see this, if it is true. 




Machiavelli said:


> RH,
> 
> These posters are correct in that your wife sees you as a Beta-Provider Male and other than your ability to act like a work mule to support her lifestyle and her children, you are of little value.
> 
> ...


MMSLP is downloaded and I have just started to read it. I will continue to workout and edit my health. If anything it will put me in a better position if I do end up single. (and I really hope not to) 



lifeistooshort said:


> Have you considered sitting down and asking her if she still wants to be married to you? Tell her that it's clear she doesn't care to spend time with you and clearly doesn't enjoy your company so if that's how she feels you will be happy to split up amicably and move on. This puts the ball in her court and also lets her know that while you would like to have a marriage if she doesn't you understand and will be fine without her. It's a form of the 180. See what she says and watch her actions, that will tell you all you need to know. Everyone should be willing to lose a relationship with someone that's not interested.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes just did this and we are going to counseling. 


She says our kids are the most important thing to her. I agree but still put our marriage above them, FOR the kids. If we have a sterling marriage it makes it better for them. 

I know she needs to decide on her own that she wants to stay married. Then she needs to make it a priority, because she wants it as well. Her choosing to make our marriage important, then following through with it. Quality time together, acknowledging each other warmly, physical contact and respecting each other. 

I am not in the "Do it or I am walking" stage, she really needs to hear the 3rd party's perspective. What will push me to that point would be her denying she needs to change or not following through.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

> *Just me reading between the lines, the comment I highlighted says I'm in it for the kids and your financial support. Once the kids are out, so am I.*


Have to admit reading through this thread that was what I kept thinking about the wife. She really sounds like one of those spouses who is going to bail or have an affair once the kids are old enough to start looking after themselves.

Hope things work out.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

RomanticHusband said:


> She says our kids are the most important thing to her. I agree but still put our marriage above them, FOR the kids. If we have a sterling marriage it makes it better for them.


Classic mistake women make--they put the welfare of their children above the welfare of their marriage. I even found it listed in an old, old, old James Dobson book on marriage as the most common mistake women make.

A healthy marriage is the foundation for a healthy environment for the children. To put it another way, if the marriage goes to hell, then the environment for the children goes to hell, and you ARE damaging your children.

If the children are #1 on her list, then this might give you a logical opening to refocus her on improving your marriage relationship (because it will benefit the children). After all, where you're headed now is toward divorce. And, it's not just the divorce, it's the years leading up to the divorce that are damaging to the children. 

If she has it in the back of her mind that she will stay married "for the children" till they grow up and then divorce, it may make it rethink her position.


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Have to admit reading through this thread that was what I kept thinking about the wife. She really sounds like one of those spouses who is going to bail or have an affair once the kids are old enough to start looking after themselves.
> 
> Hope things work out.


I have started wondering this as well after the first person suggested after my original posting. She comes from a religious family and it would kill her mother if we divorced. But if I was the one to "leave" I would be branded the bad guy with her family. So perhaps a motivation to her to subconsciously push me away. Or one day kids in college she says "I am out" over cornflakes on morning. 

I hope through counseling we can see if she has interest to work on our marriage. And that a "walkaway wife" is not a reality.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

OP,
As a wife, marriage not great, a lot of your posts about your wife being detached sound just like me.

The MMSL and gaining attraction back, yes it can work.

I don't believe that walk away is true in every single case.

Only comment I will make is be prepared to learn about resentment, and hear that you don't listen to her.

Some people assume that when you listen, that means you read their minds and do what they say. Proof you "heard" them.

Many tired wives can be resentful about "doing too much".
The honest truth is us supermoms take it on ourselves. We do it, so no one else has to. I was one. 

Just a heads up on what may come. It's fixable. If the word fair and owning your own shet is on the table as well. 

Good luck, best wishes.

ETA: Implying she might blame you. In the end, if she's willing to hang up the supercape, you have a chance


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

deejov said:


> OP,
> As a wife, marriage not great, a lot of your posts about your wife being detached sound just like me.
> 
> The MMSL and gaining attraction back, yes it can work.
> ...



I do think she is resentful. I think she feels all this weight to do what she does, thus when she does have an opportunity to spend a moment with me, why would she even want to put effort with me. I keep delivering so all must be fine. When I ask for something from her, hug, kiss or basic acknowledgement I think she is resentful that I am basicly "one more thing to do". She has said in the past that I (husband) get to do what I want. Where as she is assumed to be taking care of the kids etc. Again resentful. This is where I hope a 3rd party can help her to see she and I both choose what we each do. Neither of us just willy nilly get to do what we want each day, but we are adults and make those adult decisions to do what needs to get done. But we do chose to do these things. I think its the grass is greener thing in this case. She choses to put kids top of the list, then is resentful and feels that she is assumed to be the caregiver. (food, laundry, cleaning) Again my life is Work and family with very little else. I could see it if I watched sports all the time, went out with the guys etc. But I don't.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

RomanticHusband said:


> She says she wants me to hear in counseling that she wants me to do more around the house. I welcome that discussion. Honestly I welcome ANY discussion with her regarding actually working on our marriage.


 You should call bull to your wife wanting you to "do more around the house". With you being the sole breadwinner, and her being the stay at home wife, you are already doing more then your share. Although many housewives will protest me saying this, just take a few days off from work and watch how few real work hours are required to run a modern household. Also, much of what some call work is not real work. Going to games and spending time with your own children is important for the children, but it is not work. What do you call it when a parent leaves their work early so that they can watch one of their children's games? Answer: Time off from work.

Here is the rub. Your wife even asking you this shows how much she takes what you do for granted and how little she cares about your happiness. Having you do even more work will not change that attitude. She wants to hold you to a standard of perfection while not holding herself to the same standard. As a human you are not perfect, and you will always fail this standard.

Marriage is about two people that work to make each other happy. It does not work if only one is willing to do the work. Stop talking about her wants and start talking about your happiness. She either cares about your happiness or she does not. Let her know that your happiness should matter to her, and that you are not happy.

You are in more trouble than you know. Right now your wife is ripe for the right other man to enter her life.


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## MrsOldNews (Feb 22, 2012)

*Re: Re: Wife tuning out*



Blue Firefly said:


> BTW, she already knows she can't do it all, and has decided to sacrifice sex and intimacy with you so she can have these other things. You need to make it clear that being on the bottom of her life's priority list is unacceptable.


I agree with this 100% but I'd still like to add to it 

Why would sex with her husband be the first thing she sacrificed? If she lightens the load I bet sex with the husband still won't be a priority. I don't think she's attracted to her husband for whatever reason.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I agree with TRy as well,

But I will say, that when a wife is in resentment mode, it's just like an affair fog. Except all one sees is red anger, not hot passion 

So one sees red anger... and yup it comes as a big knock to hear "it's your fault, YOU are being a shrew". WTF!! 
But it needs to be done. Reality needs to be put on paper, explained, drawn, whatever it takes. 

This is what your responsibilities are... this is what hers are.
And it's simply not going to be 50\50.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

RomanticHusband said:


> She has said in the past that I (husband) get to do what I want. Where as she is assumed to be taking care of the kids etc.


 This is a delusional view of what you do, and further confirms that she does not appreciate and belittles what you do for the family. Do you show up to work because you want to, or because if you do not you will get fired? When your boss tells you that they want a report by 9:00am the next day, can you tell him that you will not do it because you do not want to? If you had billions of dollars, would you still go to that job because that is how you want to spend your day? Of course not. You are not doing what you want to during the day. You are doing what you have to do so that they will give you the money to pay your family's bills. No money and you are out of there.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

TRy said:


> This is a delusional view of what you do, and further confirms that she does not appreciate and belittles what you do for the family. Do you show up to work because you want to, or because if you do not you will get fired? When your boss tells you that they want a report by 9:00am the next day, can you tell him that you will not do it because you do not want to? If you had billions of dollars, would you still go to that job because that is how you want to spend your day? Of course not. You are not doing what you want to during the day. You are doing what you have to do so that they will give you the money to pay your family's bills. No money and you are out of there.


As one who is still recovering from the delusion of resentment, yes it's true to say she does not appreciate it.

But keep in mind that she's just "coping" with life, as she knows how. She doesn't have the skills to deal with it. So she can learn. And so can he. That's what MC is about. 

And I can't stress enough... when in resentment mode, there is no such thing as grattitude. Blinders. men all suck. Bitterness rules. There is no other way to look at it. Until someone teaches you how.


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

TRy said:


> You should call bull to your wife wanting you to "do more around the house". With you being the sole breadwinner, and her being the stay at home wife, you are already doing more then your share.
> 
> -SNIP-
> 
> You are in more trouble than you know. Right now your wife is ripe for the right other man to enter her life.


She does work three days a week by choice. She could work more especially now all the kids in all day school, but she chooses not too. "I never want to work Fridays again!"

Yes I think she is ripe for an emotional affair. I don't think she has it in her to full on cheat as of now anyway. 



MrsOldNews said:


> I agree with this 100% but I'd still like to add to it
> 
> Why would sex with he husband be the first thing she sacrificed? If she lightens the load I bet sex with the husband still won't be a priority. I don't think she's attracted to her husband for whatever reason.


Agreed. I think if I hired a maid she would still feel the same. I agree and I feel she is not attracted to me. Its hard to be attracted to someone if they feel resentment to them. 

I honestly think the last few yrs I have put sex as the one place we still "have a marriage". Then when she says no, or puts absolutely no effort into it, I feel rejected only pushing me harder to seek it with her. This then became a perpetual catch 22 thing. That is up to about a month ago. The established weeknight for sex, I said no thank you when she said it had to be fast. She then said, "you're not getting any later, you better take what you can get". I still said no, I will wait until you wish to participate. The next week was different with her participating more than she has in a year. Still very little participation but she was into it.

This is where my new found working out, helped work off the sexual frustration somewhat. I just pushed myself harder that week, thus tired as a dog and a slightly dimished sexdrive.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

RomanticHusband said:


> Yes I think she is ripe for an emotional affair. I don't think she has it in her to full on cheat as of now anyway.


 Many of the men that pursue married women, first start with an emotinal affair (EA), knowing that many of these women will give in to upping it to a physical affair (PA) as a price to pay to maintain the EA that they have now become addicted to.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

RomanticHusband said:


> MMSLP is downloaded and I have just started to read it. I will continue to workout and edit my health. If anything it will put me in a better position if I do end up single. (and I really hope not to)


That's exactly right; both the new, ripped physique and the knowledge contained in that book will stand you in good stead, either way.



RomanticHusband said:


> She says our kids are the most important thing to her. I agree but still put our marriage above them, FOR the kids. If we have a sterling marriage it makes it better for them.


that's a great insight that selfish wives who falsely claim to put the kids first, just don't see.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> That's exactly right; both the new, ripped physique and the knowledge contained in that book will stand you in good stead, either way.
> 
> 
> 
> that's a great insight that selfish wives who falsely claim to put the kids first, just don't see.


Spouses before the kids


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

MrK said:


> Your wife is gone. They don't come back. Don't count on the counselor to fix anything. It doesn't work.
> 
> Work on you for you and your kids. Live your life. She's gone.
> 
> I know because that's what walk-away wives do.


MrK have you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE? 



RH, its been over two months since you posted and you haven't managed to read MMSLP.? Are you taking this seriously?

If you get into counseling before you read and undsrstand MMSLP, expect to be crucified. If you had bothered to read the book you probably would not have to go counseling.

Prediction.........your going to counseling and hear abunch of progressive, male bashing about how you are not being a good husband.

More house work, yes men do need to help out but your wife doesn't even work full time. Remember ,,,,,, when a man becomes the maid , he don't get laid.

Lastly there are many threads here that include counselor horror stories.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

RomanticHusband said:


> I have started wondering this as well after the first person suggested after my original posting. She comes from a religious family and it would kill her mother if we divorced. But if I was the one to "leave" I would be branded the bad guy with her family. So perhaps a motivation to her to subconsciously push me away. Or one day kids in college she says "I am out" over cornflakes on morning.
> 
> I hope through counseling we can see if she has interest to work on our marriage. And that a "walkaway wife" is not a reality.


I was wondering about her religion. Try googleing what a Christian marriage is supposed to be. It is very emphatic about a spouse puting nothing before the other spouse except God. Check it out and point out how , as has already been posted, how failure to do this destroys or severely harms children.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You sound like every guy in the infidelity section. You can't believe in the possibility of her having an affair. Unless you have your eye on her 24/7, she has plenty of time. We have seen women have affairs and hide it for years. As amatter of fact, 80% of affairs go totally undetected. If you are watching her 24/7, she still has plenty of time for an EA.

I'm not saying she is being unfaithful, just trying to get you to focus. The only thing you KNOW is what you can see and prove to your self.. people in perfect marriages get cheated on and few are perfect.

If you do not click with the counselor, bail and find another.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

RomanticHusband said:


> She does work three days a week by choice. She could work more especially now all the kids in all day school, but she chooses not too. "I never want to work Fridays again!"


Three days a week! I was under the impression she worked full time. This sheds new light on:

1) her wanting you to help with more housework

2) her putting her career higher than you on her priority list

Three days a week isn't a career, it's a part time job. She'll remain at the lower end of the wage scale, and never advance significantly in position; authority; or pay.

Do you really need this money? Is she doing this so she won't be a stay-at-home-mom; so she can tell her friends that she is a career-woman?

My wife quit work to stay home with the kids. After a while, she started to turn her hobbies into businesses--none of which made money (thankfully, she wasn't losing money, but she was making diddly). It got to the point she was driving everyone crazy with the stress of her "business." I couldn't figure out why it had to be a business instead of just a hobby. Then it struck me: she needed to be able to tell her friends she was "a businesswoman" (still hanging onto the feminist idea that there was something wrong with being a SAHM), and she needed to be able to tell me "I'm working on my business just like you're working on your job."

I sat her down and told her no more businesses. You could make more money working a Saturday job making minimum wage than you are now, and you're stressing yourself and everyone else out. Hobbies are fine, but the business stuff is over. Then all hell broke lose, because it was a huge blow to her ego, and she didn't want to let go of it. Eventually she did, but it took a lot of pressure from me.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

+1 on reading Married Man Sex Life Primer before going into MC. 

So, why haven't you read it yet? You do know you can read it on your PC/tablet/phone immediately don't you?

1) Sign up for an Amazon.com account.

2) Install Kindle reading app for your device Amazon.com: Free Kindle Reading Apps

3) Go to amazon.com and purchase the kindle version of the book Amazon.com: The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 eBook: Athol Kay: Kindle Store

4) Start reading it immediatly on your device.

If you know what you are doing it will take 4 minutes, if you don't it will take 9 minutes.

So, why don't you do this before you make another post here?


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

We did the MC thing, and what I got out of it was that I didn't do enough and that I should be more empathetic to her problems. Of course, I was too naive to realize what a load of bull that was.

Laundry was a huge issue for her. I felt guilty about not helping. Only years later, when I actually did the math, did I realize how I had been taken in. We have a small family, and we barely produced enough dirty linen/clothing to even do one load a day. My wife would wait till it built up to the point that it required 5-6 loads, then make a production about how much laundry she had to do.

We switched to doing one load a day--no more and no less. If we did have many dirty clothes, we did a small load. If we had too many, some waited till the next day. Suddenly, the laundry monster turned into a pretty easy job. Put one load in the washer, move one load to the dryer, fold one load of clothing--every day. It literally turned into a task we could do in between the other tasks of our life.

My point is, before you go into MC, you may want to think about the ways your wife makes more work for herself (or makes it seem like there is more work). You also need to have a solid list of things you actually do (from home repairs to auto maint). You do not want to admit to the premise that you don't do enough. 

Heck, I was gone from home 12 hours a day for work (left at 7 AM and got home at 7 PM) and our MC pushed the idea that I wasn't pulling my weight at home. Looking back, I feel like such an idiot.


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## Blue Firefly (Mar 6, 2013)

chapparal said:


> I was wondering about her religion. Try googleing what a Christian marriage is supposed to be. It is very emphatic about a spouse puting nothing before the other spouse except God. Check it out and point out how , as has already been posted, how failure to do this destroys or severely harms children.


I found the Dobson advice about setting your priorities as (1) God, (2) Spouse, (3) children, and (4) everyone/everything else in this book: Amazon.com: Buying Choices: Dobson 2-in-1: Love Must Be Tough/straight Talk . You can get a used copy for $4.00.

If she is religious, she may take the advice of an outsider better than from you (although you will probably have to find the passage, highlight it, and then shove it in her face to get her to read it).

You may also want to involve your pastor/church in this. Take the priority list she made with you and ask for help getting her priorities straight.

Getting her out of the mindset that her children come before her husband should be at the top of your priority list.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I don't know if you do this but my husband did for a long time and it caused a lot of resentment. When I would tell him how I felt, he'd tell me I was wrong. He would never allow me to have my own feelings and many times would end up telling me how I should feel. I wanted him to listen to me. My feelings weren't accusations or attacks on him. I wasn't saying I was right and he was wrong. They were just my feelings, my perceptions. Don't ask me what's wrong and then punish me for telling you. I just wanted to be heard. I had to sensor my feelings to avoid making him mad or hurting his ego. I can remember one night I stood in front of him with tears rolling down my cheeks and I looked him in the eyes and calmly said "I don't feel like I am a priority in your life. I'm feel alone and like I don't matter to you and it really hurts". He starts rambling off a list of everything he's ever done for me to prove how wrong I was for feeling like that. I waited for him to finish and I said "your wife is standing in front of you telling you she doesn't feel loved and she's lonely. Whether you believe my perception is skewed or not, alarm bells should be sounding in your head because there is obviously a problem somewhere". I don't know how I could have made it any clearer. He still didn't get it and eventually I started shutting down.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

RomanticHusband said:


> Yes I think she is ripe for an emotional affair.


+
And she is beautiful
+
And she has a little as possible sex with you

=

???


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## RomanticHusband (Jan 30, 2013)

We had our first counseling session. The outcome was great. (I was not crucified because I have not read the MMSLP. I do have it and will read more as I can make time.) 

My wife for the first time really realized she has become "comfortable". Things all her way and just assuming I am there and always will be. My focus was on her tuning out and not having an active role in our marriage. The way she just goes about her day with me being just another thing in the house. To her surprise I did not list lack of sex at all. Not once did she say she wanted me to do more around the house. I think in the past that has been her go to. But when the cards are on the table with a 3rd party she realizes how silly that is with her 3 day work week. She was the one who brought up sex, saying she knows I am not happy there. At that point I shared I felt she used sex as a manipulation tool, she did not deny it. 

She also said she was rocked when I ask her if she thought we would be together in five years. I had ask her that the week before we went to counseling. She said that was the first time she really realized that maybe there is more mariage wise for her to pay attention too. 

We left our first counseling session with a set time for the next appointment. More importantly, with her opening her eyes a bit and seeing its time for her to start putting some work in mariage wise. I look forward to seeing her increase her participation. I am hoping the counselor gives her/us homework to do in the next session. I would like to see her act on what she is saying she now realizes she needs to work on. Another nice thing was that night we had great sex. 

As for the "she must be cheating", yes I will join the ranks of "I had no idea" if she is. There is nothing further I can do, besides putting a GPS ear tag on her. At this point I trust her and do not feel she is or is about to cheat.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Ha-ha, good news. Been there, done that. 

Don't forget "His Needs, Her Needs" too. MMSLP doesn't stand on it's own for a true relationship. 

Best wishes.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

RH,

I feel you are for her 'plan B', although at the moment there is no plan A. But now she may realize, she needs a plan A.

You are in her eyes, the enabler of het boring lifestyle, the Beta guy, hoping, pathetic, not worth while.

So take care where this leads. Read the advised books, and act. Don't talk. She might start to value the marriage again.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

sorry your in this situation, sounds so eerily familiar to mine. Except mine does work full time, and the EA has already started. She wants more time, and I'm sleeping on couch now! I'm now at a 31 inch waist, down from a 35, own a construction co. and was already pretty solid in build. IMHO that really doesn't matter as much as you think honestly, she'd take a shorter balding guy that gives her all the attention she thinks she needs if that's what it came down too. Its emotional, a connection of the heart, although a fit guy always gives you more initial desire its not required as much as the emotional part. IT is all about confidence thou, women respond to alpha, and get pushed away in that frame of mind by the nice guy.

The problem is she already knows what she's getting from you, so you need to be a NEW you. Its the mystery of the new you that will keep her coming back to ask questions. The line you must walk now is so razor thin, its impossible to predict. The overall failure rates of these situations is beyond high, which is so sad someone is so willing to throw it all away in the name of "excitement". 

The gym thing is nice, your in shape and feel better about yourself, but honestly, going out with a few friends for a beer (not telling her what you did) and not coming home till midnight will get you a lot more attention. Show her your willing to move on, even if its just a façade. I guarantee she's wouldn't go to a bar and look for the fittest guy, she's taking home the guy that will make her feel "refreshed", "special", and more importantly "lusted after".


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