# Options are married OR happy



## Rainbownotsobright (Jan 20, 2012)

As other have posted, I too have been looking at this site for some time now and now have decided to put up my story for some advise. 

My husband and I have been together for 9 years married for 4.5. We are 30 (him) and 28 (me), and we have no children. We met 10 years ago through mutual fiends and one drunken emotionally charged night we hooked up. I was not looking for a relationship or really interested in him in the initial stages and had early on the piece decided to end it with him, although this didn’t happen and I ended up falling in love with him. 

We have been through a lot together and we do love each other. I am just not sure if this is enough anymore. Our relationship has been filled with great adventures, lots of fun times and successes in our personal, financial and work lives. It has been plagued with vicious fights and arguments where one or both of us have said horrible things to each other and have thought it wasn’t worth it. Some of our fights have entered the ‘physical’ territory, with yelling and screaming at each other escalating and him telling me to get out of his house. (He bought the house 2 years before we were married and since we got married and moved in we have both equally contributed to the home). On a handful of occasions I have left our house only to receive phone calls initially begging for me to come back followed by angry threats and empty promises. And I have always gone back and then felt stupid for doing this but i want to make my marriage work. 

For a long time I asked my husband to see things from my point of view and the way he mistreats me. I wanted us to change and work on our communication to strengthen our relationship and he didn’t want to come to the party or thought an apology was enough to win me over. And for a while that worked but after being disappointed time after time, being told things would change and that he would never treat me like that again we fell back into the same patterns and nothing changed. All that changed was that I feel I lost trust in him and a little love along the way. 

I have been really unhappy for the past 18 months and I have wanted to leave. I do love my husband very much. I feel exhausted, after trying to hold us together and hoping things would be different. Last year I had a bit of an emotional breakdown and I told him everything that I had been feeling and that if things didn’t change that I would leave. For some reason (and why it didn’t happen earlier) he heard me (despite us having this conversation biannually) and he made some changes. We even went to see a marriage councillor (one session – nil more attended as he didn’t think it was important to go). It feels to me that our relationship is on his terms and he tells me that I have unrealistic ideas on what our marriage should be/mean and that I complain too much… I don’t feel that it is unrealistic to be treated as an equal member of a partnership where love and companionship are the main factors. Not a relationship where one person controls the other, having double standards is okay, not being an equal team member and having your feelings and concerns dismissed is alright. 

I am not under the illusion that marriage is easy or that you get married and everything falls into place and that marriages are filled with roses and cupcakes. I knew that it would be something we needed to work on together and it would take effort on both of our sides to make it work, successfully. But I feel that I’m the only one working on us, that it shouldn’t be this difficult and I thought I would have my team mate there to help with the burden, but this is not the case. 

After me requesting again for marriage counselling (he has been very reluctant to go and putting off making the appointment several times) we have an appointment to give it another go in 3 days. I really for the past 3 weeks have thought about nothing but leaving but I know this will crush him and I don’t want to hurt him, and its killing me. 

I guess the question is although I am seriously considering leaving can marriage counselling work even when I feel I have already left us? 
Can we get back that trust and loving feeling after I have been hurt (both emotionally and physically) so many times? 
And lastly (although very difficult to answer but if anyone had ANY suggestions I will be very grateful)…. How do I know that I have tried enough? Because I’m so tired and over it and want so badly for things to be different…. 
I feel for me the options are either happy or married…..

Thanks in advance…


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## Unrequited (Feb 6, 2012)

I have learned that counseling is not always the answer. Just sayin.

"I’m so tired and over it and want so badly for things to be different"

"I don’t want to hurt him"

- You need to do what's best for you. It's kinder to just cut him loose instead of stringing him along. I would rather be alone than to be with someone who is only with me out of pity or fear.


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## sadinsalem (Jan 12, 2012)

I can truly understand your dilemma.. I am in the same situation with my wife. Although our marriage to the outside world, and probably her as well looks like a fairy tale romance, inside I'm always feeling dead. I simply do not love her any longer. Yet I keep up the charade because of my kids. My point is this, if counseling does not work, and you get to the point where it simply not worth it, then you should go. I guess if both parties are willing, then yes you can probably get the majic back, but, in my case, I don't.. I don't hate her, but I've simply had enough but I'm locked into the relationship.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

You dont tell us why you dont have kids. It seems its his house so he can do what he wants. You dont mention if you both work. The main problem is that he sees he does no wrong. What did the MC say.
My advice to you as I have expressed many times here. Get the MC to tell you how to run your lives. Dont wait till he 'explains' to your H what he does wrong. That will take forever. Tell your MC what you want in practical terms. Ask him/her their opinion if youre right. Make sure you get an answer otherwise youll just be wasting your money. If your H wont listen to your MC who at the end of the day is not involved then get out.


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## Rainbownotsobright (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks for the replys...
We dont have children because i have been apprehensive to bring children into a relationship like ours when we fight the way we do and i am not sure where it is going. 
We both work full time and are well paid and have no finacial stressors in out lives (we have bo debt, we own our cars, house (outright - no morgage) have no credit card debit, and have ample savings). 
Our main issues are the way he treats me and how unhappy this has made me in our relationship.


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## nicole2011 (Jun 28, 2011)

I sent u a private message.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> It has been plagued with vicious fights and arguments where one or both of us have said horrible things to each other and have thought it wasn’t worth it. Some of our fights have entered the ‘physical’ territory,


Rainbow, how often have you had these fights during the 9 years? Does he have a lot of anger that is easily triggered by minor things you do or say? Does he do black-white thinking, wherein he categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" (i.e., "with me" or "against me")? Does he show signs of having a strong fear of abandonment (e.g., being very controlling and jealous)?

I ask these questions to see if you have observed any of the classic traits of a personality disorder. Determining that would be helpful because, if he has moderate to strong traits of a PD, the MC you are pursuing likely would be a total waste of time. When a man has strong PD traits, his issues go far beyond a lack of communication skills and there is little chance he will be willing to seek the IC he needs.


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## Rainbownotsobright (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi Uptown,

We have been fighting less since i had the emotional breakdown last year but i feel that is partly beacuse of 2 reasons: 1) he is scared of blowing up at me and me walking out for good, and 2) (this may be me just being hopeful) but that he sees how he has mistreated me and is trying to change (although sometimes his actions and words dont meet up). 

I feel that more often then not his reactions to things i do and say or things that happen do not seem appropriatly weighted to the problem. If that makes sense....

He does have the all or nothing/ black or white view, and he often says 'its my way or the highway' and i know that he is terrified that i will leave him and he will have no-one (his words and thoughts). I am more often than not doing things to please him and keep the peace by being home when he wants me to be, not spending as much time with my girl friends, family or at the gym as i would like to beacuse i dont want him to blow up at me over it. I try really hard to do the right thing but even then he often changes the goal posts and i get screamed at over something even though hours earlier he said it was okay. 

We have both struggled with depression (me also with anxiety and mild OCD traits) and are seeking help (me on medication and going to IC, he only medication and refuses to go to IC). The IC i am seeing has suggested that i need to stay in our house if i am really wanting to work things out but the more i type, think and read about all this the quicker i am loosing hope that thing will be okay, and that there will be an 'US' left.....


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Rainbownotsobright said:


> He does have the all or nothing/ black or white view, and he often says 'its my way or the highway.'


Rainbow, I asked about the B-W thinking because it is one of the hallmarks of a person having strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Significantly, every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level when they are emotionally healthy. These traits become a problem only when they are so strong that they distort the person's perception of other peoples' intentions, thereby undermining his ability to sustain LTRs.

Of course, only a professional can determine whether your H has these traits at such a severe level that they satisfy 100% of the criteria for having the full-blown disorder. Yet, even when the traits fall well below that level, they can make your life miserable, put you at risk for your safety, and undermine a marriage. Further, it is not difficult to spot such traits in a man you've been living with for many years. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and inability to trust. 

I therefore suggest you read more about BPD traits so you are able to spot all nine of the red flags, i.e., strong occurrences of such traits. I also suggest you ask your IC if this is what you are dealing with. Incidentally, if the IC does not have a PhD (i.e., is not a psychologist), I suggest you see one who is. They have more training. Moreover, because therapists vary greatly in skill sets, it is important to get a recommendation for a good one from some professional you trust.


> I feel that more often then not his reactions to things i do and say or things that happen do not seem appropriately weighted to the problem. If that makes sense....


Yes, that makes sense. BPDers (i.e., those having moderate to strong BPD traits) are over-sensitive and often over-react to things. One reason is that the traits distort a BPDer's perception of your intentions and motivations, causing him to see slights and insults where they don't even exist. Another reason is that a BPDer has the emotional development of a 3 or 4 year old. Either genetics or a traumatic childhood experience (or both) caused his emotional development to freeze at that young age. The result is that he is unable to control his emotions or do self soothing to calm himself down. You therefore should not be surprised if you have often had the feeling you were living with a child in a man's body.


> I know that he is terrified that i will leave him and he will have no-one (his words and thoughts).


BPDers have two great fears. Abandonment is one of them. BPDers absolutely hate to be alone. Because their emotional development was stunted, they never developed a strong sense of who they are. A BPDer therefore has no strong ego to guide him in his daily interactions with others. The result is that he will desperately want to have a woman with a strong personality around at all times -- to ground him and give him a sense of direction. Yet, when you do exactly that for him, he will feel controlled and dominated (never mind that he is the controlling one).

This is why, even when he is splitting you black and finding you disgusting, a BPDer usually does not want to leave you. And this is why the #2 best selling BPD book is called _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me._


> I keep the peace by being home when he wants me to be, not spending as much time with my girl friends, family or at the gym as i would like to beacuse i dont want him to blow up at me over it.


Your behavior is called "walking on eggshells," which is what people do to avoid triggering a BPDer's anger. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._

Due to the abandonment fear, a BPDer tries to control every aspect of his loved one's life -- to prevent friends and family members from stealing her away. My exW, for example, was jealous even of my being so close to her children (my step-children). And she was jealous of girls I had dated 30 years earlier.


> I try really hard to do the right thing but even then he often changes the goal posts and i get screamed at over something even though hours earlier he said it was okay.


That's exactly what it is like when you are living with a four year old having the intelligence, cunning, and body strength of a full grown man. Being unable to control his emotions, he will experience feelings so intensely that he will be absolutely convinced that they MUST be true. 

You therefore cannot reason with him while he is angry. And, because his anger will be triggered in ten seconds whenever you try to discuss any serious matter, you can never have a rational discussion with him about any important matter. You are always just 10 seconds away from a temper tantrum.

Being unstable, he will find his goals and desires changing frequently. This is why, after he buys something expensive, he will absolutely love it for a week or two and then rarely touch it again. And this is why the goal posts are always changing. Further, like a young child, he will have a double standard -- one for him to live by and one for everyone else. And his own standard will change from week to week.


> We have both struggled with depression (me also with anxiety and mild OCD traits) and are seeking help (me on medication and going to IC, he only medication and refuses to go to IC).


Because BPDers are filled with self loathing and shame carried from early childhood, it is not surprising that they all suffer from depression (and sometimes anxiety) quite often. Medications can help reduce those two side effects of the BPD traits. Medications cannot make a dent in the traits themselves, however. 

Those traits constitute a "thought disorder" that has been firmly entrenched in his way of thinking since early childhood. For him to improve, what is required is years of intensive therapy. Sadly, there is little chance he will be willing to seek such therapy, much less stay in long enough to make a real difference.


> The IC i am seeing has suggested that i need to stay in our house if i am really wanting to work things out.


Rainbow, if your H has most BPD traits at a strong level, staying with him would not be in your interests because he likely will get worse. As the years go by, he will become increasingly resentful of "your failure" to make him happy -- an impossible task. As you've already seen, he is not even safe to be around when he is angry -- and such moments are unpredictable.

Further, if he is a BPDer, you are harming him by staying with him because you are destroying his only chance to confront his issues and to learn how to control them. As long as you continue trying to sooth him, he has no incentive to learn how to do self soothing (a skill the rest of us learned in childhood). That is, you will be an enabler.

I therefore suggest that you read more about the nine BPD traits so you are able to spot the red flags. At issue is not whether your H has the full blown disorder. You cannot determine that. Rather, at issue is whether he has most of the traits at a strong level. You are fully capable of determining that if you take time to read more about them. 

If you want a book on the subject, either of the titles I mention above would be excellent choices. Also, you may want to look at my description of these traits in Maybe's thread about his abusive wife. It is located at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to excellent online resources.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I've been married 20 years and came to the same conclusion. Nothing left after all the work of trying to keep our marriage together. It was always work and not fun and I got tired..Believe it or not there is still hope but I found it took separating to wake us both up. It brought both of us back to reality and I am so surprised how happy we are now..really for real happy..not faking it..we went through alot of pain first..me kicking him out..marriage counseling that didnt work until he kicked me out..It really takes a crisis to wake up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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