# expectations vs realistic - sex



## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

This question is probably more geared towards the Sex in Marriage forum. But I know I will probably get one of two responses:
1) you the HD spouse is a victim, and your wife should do _whatever_ to make you happy in bed
2) read MMSL

I'm hoping some women with more average sex drives, and good marriages could respond to this. For some different perspective.

In short, our marriage is solid. We have our issues (basic stuff like money and raising the kids) and have both done things to make it harder on each other at times. However, there is a lot of love there, and we generally try to communicate when things get out of kilter. 

One of the issues we've had in our marriage basically the entire time (12+ years) is sex. Our sex issues have ranged from her difficulties getting aroused, to frequency, to what she is open to doing in the bedroom (I'm more adventurous than her). In short, almost the entire time I've been on her case about this. Last night after some good sex ironically enough, she told me she basically resents sex with me. According to her, I am never satisfied, that I'm always pushing in some way to do more in bed or do "it" more period AND she better enjoy it like me. Honestly, I feel that I handle my overblown expectations much better than I used to, but it still comes out in more subtle ways. But after 12 years, I can hardly blame my wife for her taking it all as one big headache. 

Again, I'm learning all of this as of last night. Before, she'd explain her lack of desire/enthusiasm as she's too tired (she has bad sleep habits and so do our kids that she's largely responsible for). 

Our sex life has had its times when it was real good. Actually, after our first child, once she healed up, we were all over each other and I remember it being passionate and fulfilling. That's when it was probably at its best. 

*I don't know how to fix this*. This conversation was enlightening - never comprehending how much pressure I have put on her to be my own personal porn star. Which leads me to the title of this post - realistic v overblown expectations. I have a overcharged sex drive. I'm basically ALWAYS horny and am sexually adventurous. I've never really realized this - but I've essentially judged my wife harshly because she's not like me.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm glad you come to that conclusion that you have an overblown drive and that you and she were able to talk about it. I felt just like her at one point with my dh, and I had to tell him, he had literally hounded me so much (even if we had sex every day he was insatiable it just made him want it more) so I got to a point where I didn't even think about sex because he was always on me.... sounds like your wife is about at that point and is warning you a bit now. I get the whole guys on here with the MMSL and MAN UP stuff, but let's get real, those are for wives who are not having sex at all, or once a month or two... if your wife is giving once or twice a week or more, then she has a good sex drive, yours is just higher and you have to find a compromise and if she is giving and you are doing all the taking, then maybe it is time for you to start doing some giving in terms of some non sexual time when you want sex, just be with her and try something she wants to do, throw her thru a loop and turn her on in other ways. Just my thoughts.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I'm glad you come to that conclusion that you have an overblown drive and that you and she were able to talk about it. I felt just like her at one point with my dh, and I had to tell him, he had literally hounded me so much (even if we had sex every day he was insatiable it just made him want it more) so I got to a point where I didn't even think about sex because he was always on me.... sounds like your wife is about at that point and is warning you a bit now. I get the whole guys on here with the MMSL and MAN UP stuff, but let's get real, those are for wives who are not having sex at all, or once a month or two... if your wife is giving once or twice a week or more, then she has a good sex drive, yours is just higher and you have to find a compromise and if she is giving and you are doing all the taking, then maybe it is time for you to start doing some giving in terms of some non sexual time when you want sex, just be with her and try something she wants to do, throw her thru a loop and turn her on in other ways. Just my thoughts.


I wouldn't say she has a good drive. She's admitted that she probably hasn't felt 'horny' in over a year. But she makes an effort for my sake. 
My expectations aren't just about frequency. Its about what we are doing in bed, her level of arousal, whether she has an orgasm or not etc. 
Its the whole she-bang. 
Basically, if we aren't having sex at least twice a week, it isn't passionate and hot with multiple positions, foreplay, with a little kinky/freaky, than I'm dissapointed. I deal with that disappointment a million times better than before, but it still comes out one way or another. I want her to be me when it comes to sex - which is totally unrealistic, and I've essentially held it against her.
And I don't know how to un-do the damage I've done.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm the HD spouse. What worked for me was to back up and redefine our relationship outside of the bedroom. In a way he was like a LD wife in that he had emotional needs I wasn't meeting. Once I began meeting those needs and really putting myself in his shoes our sex life took off. It was really simple once I figured it out.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

hd? ld?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

bkaydezz said:


> hd? ld?


high drive, low drive


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

thank you chilly! well in this case, with you both being so opposite in that, go dutch. compromise at first and see if you can get her to closer (slowly) to your HD (cool i can use that now that i know what it is. Thats hard to do. i was in a realationship once where i was HD and he was LD and it was horrible!!!!! always having to please yourself. and there wasnt any compromising on this might i add. everyones libido is different. but me and my boyfriend are both VERY HD haha. which is super cala fraja listic expealidocious AWESOME! i wouldnt want it any other way. besides the drives itslef and it not all being about needing it more or her needing it less, its a very huge form of communication for your love with one another!!!!!! maybe you should remind her of that


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with being HD or wanting passionate sex.

However you have to evoke passion in your wife.

Starting with, does she ever see you as another child she has to take care of? Do you take responsibility for things and just do them, because you are a man/ father and it's the right fair thing to do? or does she act like your mother nagging you to do stuff with the kids or around the house? that is a huge sex drive killer right there.

When you say sleep issues, what are they and what has caused them?, what has stopped you as a man and a father from shouldering some of that responsibility? 

I have found that a lot (not all, but many) women are turned on by men who take control, who treat women well, who are not pushovers, and are not doormats, will not allow any one (wife, family friends) to push them around, but who do their best to be a good caring loving husband.

Do you make her feel sexy, do you flirt, it's very very important, even if she is resistant at first. If she acts like she doesn't want to participate say something like "You are the sexiest woman in the world, and I'm so lucky you are mine, I would rather flirt with you then any one else, I have needs and I married you not just because you are my best friend, but because I am so excited by you, I just want to rip your clothes off" or something along those lines.

To me there is allways a reason to not have sex, headaches, sickness, tiredness, children and on and on. However the reasons to create the time to flirt and bring passion into your relationship should outweigh those, and it's funny when you start concentrating on each other and creating real passion how those other things just fall away or fall into place.

Good luck.


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

ahw little deer that was so good! but there are many fine points you brought up. telling a woman shes a nagger (when the man isnt understanding or listening to her) is definately a KILLER!


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

bkaydezz said:


> ahw little deer that was so good! but there are many fine points you brought up. telling a woman shes a nagger (when the man isnt understanding or listening to her) is definately a KILLER!


Yes never ever call a woman a nagger EVER. Ask your self why she might nag you? Are you a big kid or a man? Act like a man and and do what needs to be done to make your household work and the nagging should disapear (not saying you do that OP, just expanding).

If your wife is still "nagging" or talking down to you after you are doing what you can and seriously taking care of her (not doing everything, just your reasonable fair share), then you may be a doormat and you might need to get some self respect, and not let her push you around. 

Women love balance, a good man who is not a doormatt nor an asz h0le. And one who *pays attention*, listens to what she is saying, remembers things she likes and goes out of his way each day to do a little something special for her. (She should of course reciprocate).


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## ItMatters (Jun 6, 2012)

My spouse is very similar. He even hates quickies. Every time we have sex it often has to be multiple positions, oral sex for both of us, sexy/****ty talk (like I'm a hungry **** who loves c0ck) and so forth. If it's after 11pm, guess what? I don't want 45m of sex.

I have said that he wants sex to always be like a porn movie- it always feels like f%cking and never making love... I don't want to just f%ck because that's all he wants to do. And while I appreciate that he wants me to enjoy the act as much as he does... after only getting f%cking for so many years... I don't want that much anymore.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Maybe this analogy better explains the issue. 
I love breakfast. pancakes French toast bacon muffins eggs sausage waffles hash browns grits you get the point. i love going out for breakfast or having it at home.
My wife is oblivious about breakfast. she's rarely hungry in the morning. at best she likes hash browns from mcdonalds. 
And we get in each others case for not being like the other. i wish she liked breakfast LIKE ME and going out for breakfast AND all types of foods. she thanks its a big waste of time and money and wishes i could appreciate some mcdonalds hash browns. 
This is how we are about sex. 
I wish she craved and desired it like me and was more adventurous. and I've always resented that she has so many hang-ups about it and has no desire for it.
She hates all the hassles and headaches I've given her about sex for over 12 years and nowadays she's admitted she doesn't feel close to me after sex but almost resents me. plus important always pushing the envelope warning to do new things or bring back stuff we used to do.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

effess said:


> Maybe this analogy better explains the issue.
> I love breakfast. pancakes French toast bacon muffins eggs sausage waffles hash browns grits you get the point. i love going out for breakfast or having it at home.
> My wife is oblivious about breakfast. she's rarely hungry in the morning. at best she likes hash browns from mcdonalds.
> And we get in each others case for not being like the other. i wish she liked breakfast LIKE ME and going out for breakfast AND all types of foods. she thanks its a big waste of time and money and wishes i could appreciate some mcdonalds hash browns.
> ...


The problem with that analogy is, you could still eat out with your wife, at say breakfast and lunch times, or entice her with a breakfast she desires. You have to find out what makes her tick.

Most men have the ability to make their wives desire them. Then sex isn't difficult or a chore, it's two people who want each other badly.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

@ littledeer

Yes i do I've tried many of these things. 
I help out around the house i clean on the weekends i help put the kids to bed clean the kitchen at night vacuum etc. 
Her poor sleeping habits are her own doing. mostly cause of the kids. she insisted they sleep in our room when they were little. she claimed it was easier. when they were babies she woke up with them cause i worked and she stayed home. but I've always pushed to get the kids sleeping in their own room - she's always kind of fought it. so far i got one sleeping in their room and am working on the other. 
Im the romantic one in our relationship planning dates anniversaries flowers etc. she has her moments but its generally my department. on Friday nights i come home from work and push the kids off to bed so we can cuddle on the couch and watch some tv or a movie together (no sex implied). when she gets a massage it isn't a prelude to sex its just a massage. 
Im nor saying Im perfect but i do make an effort.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Sounds like your sex drives and how you express them are very different (very common in marriage!)...and you need to meet in the middle somewhere, here is a good book you can pick up, read together, it has worksheets near the back....in helping you understand each other.... You , Effess, is clearly an *Erotic*... they are a little more demanding and harder to please...because the intensity is higher. 

Does this explain YOU (taken from the book) >>>


> You need passion, excitement and variety to feel that your relationship is vibrant & sustainable. This means enjoying frequent sexual touch such as fondling the breasts, patting the bottom (SPANKING), stroking the genitals as well as having regular prolonged exciting sex. Downside is this>> Erotic lovers can be rigid & judgemental .
> 
> You tend to believe that you are more sophisticated, knowledgeable & flexible than your partner. However, your acceptance of variety only relates to sex with "an edge" activities, but only those that give you a thrill. You tend to be dismissive of quietly sensual & predictable lovemaking ('Vanilla Sex"). Erotic Libido types can therefore find that their ideal relationship is elusive. Your belief that an erotic sex life is the necessary foundation for a committed relationship can lead you to the conclusion that either your relationship or your partner has a problem if your sex life lacks the exact CHALLENGES you desire.


Here is the book link ... When Your Sex Drives Don't Match: Discover Your Libido Types to Create a Mutually Satisfying Sex Life 

There are 10 libido types:

1. *Sensual*
2. *Erotic*
3. *Compulsive*
4. *Dependent*
5. *Stressed*
6. *Disinterested*
7. *Detached*
8. *Addictive*
9. *Entitled*
10. *Reactive* 

Can figure out yours here>>>  Identifying your Libido Type 

Also a Lover Style Test CLICK HERE - just for a little more understanding of each other...

The Classic Lover 
The Exotic Lover 
The Suave Lover 
The Carnal Lover 
The Devoted Lover 
The Surprising Lover
The Romantic Lover 
The Liberated Lover

Love Languages Test here - in case you haven't done this - to see where you each feel the most loved >> The 5 Love Languages TEST 

Just something you could both do together and learn about each other along the way ...in hopes to pleasing each other more so (and understanding why each is the way they are )... hopefully this can bridge the gap some.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I wrote a long post and somehow lost it-but others are on the track.

You need to pay a LOT of attention to your wife--and especially the part about sex being another chore, something she does for you. 

That, to me, suggests she does not see you as an equal partner in home life. She probably feels overwhelmed and underappreciated. that may be the real root of her resentment. You may be one of those "clueless" guys who has been (or did so in the past) glossing over her requests for more input into the home life. 

My suggestions is to take on chores as a team--do not divide and conquer, and do not assume that b/c you work all day, she is sitting home doing nothing but a bit of cleaning and minding the kids. Kids are exhausting--emotionally and physically. They make messes constantly, and she can never get to the real cleaning b/c she is always having to clean up (do you know the difference?)

No one sits down to relax in the evening until everyone sits down. If there are more chores than you want to help with, figure out--with her input--which ones you can pay someone to do. Use the time you tackle chores together to talk--god, housework is so f*cking boring. It is much, much more pleasant to chat while doing it. 

When is the last time you made love--not "had sex?" There is a huge difference. She might not be ready for this yet, but start throwing in some simple, loving sessions that are not about positions or orgasms, that are just about giving each other pleasure in gentle ways, lots of kissing and massages, etc. Sounds like she really could benefit from you backing off until she is a much more enthusiastic partner. 

Please read up on the Walk-Away Wife Syndrome and even ask her to read it--could that be part of your dynamic as a couple? If so, you are lucky she said something now, and not 10 years from now as she walked out the door. 

I'm just responding to what you wrote--if none of it seems useful, fine. But give it some thought. Resentment shows up in the bedroom, but that is not generally where it usually begins.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

@ sisters

I assume u only read my initial post and not my subsequent ones. i do help out around the house. i clean vacuum on weekends, try and keep the kitchen spotless. i try and pick up after the kids as well. i don't come home from work and plop on the couch. 
Ironically enough i did reference how great the sex was after our first one was born and back then i was generally much LESS helpful around the house. so go figure. 
I know how tough being a stay at home mom is. i always defended her. 
She's told me how Im much better than i used to be in term of getting moody and detached when our sex life hit the dumps. its just after so many yrs of it even subtle things drive her nuts.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Effess, my wife and I are facing a lot of the same general issues. I'm the low-drive partner, but I'm also the more adventurous. I think the real keys are patience and moderation. Don't install the trapeze just yet. If you want to try something new, do it in small steps, and talk to her beforehand. For a lot of people, talking about what you'd like to do the next time you have sex builds anticipation and can be one of the strongest aphrodisiacs.

The other thing I'd recommend is focusing on her pleasure during sex. Tell her what you'd like to do FOR HER, and eventually she will want to reciprocate.


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## La Rose Noire (Jun 20, 2012)

I never get people who say the sex was never great then expect a change.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

I think some of the point has been missed. she resents sex because of the pressure I've put on her over years to do it more, to do more and be enthusiastic about it. i very never really sprung new stuff on her, I've always brought it up beforehand and shes non-committal at best. 
Addressing her own level of desire - she once told me a story about her sister and how she would be ok if she never had sex again w her husband. that her level of interest is that low. My wife understood that sentiment. that with her always telling me how tired she is explains why she is rarely 'in the mood' or is so oblivious to sex in general. 
Despite the fact she doesn't comprehend how important sex is to me - she does make an effort. she might not be into it and it often is duty sex, she does try. fortunately the lines of communication are open and we can talk about this stuff w/o it devolving into mudslinging. 
For years now I've blamed our inconsistent sex life on her. to her credit she has slowly come around to something alot of sexually frustrated HD spouses would jump at. its my own overblown expectations and my inability to cope which has hurt this aspect of our relationship. 
she's has gotten better now its my turn to dial down the expectation meter.


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