# Comfort spouse if OM walks away from EA?



## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

So here's a good one. I spoke with my spouse earlier today by phone - we're having a weekend apart. She's been in this online affair for a couple of months as a part of our greater marital problems. She told me that the EA may be over - apparently the OM in the relationship has lost interest in her or simply moved on, though she would still be interested in continuing the relationship. She's obviously pretty upset with the turn of events - and understands the irony of it. She commented that she may have gotten what she deserved.

I don't want to be vindictive; I take no pleasure from her pain, and I wouldn't wish heartbreak on anyone, ever, after the spring I had. I'm trying to figure out the level of comfort I should be offering her now. She's definitely not ready to re-engage with our marriage yet, we each need to work on ourselves and our own issues if we want to do that. Plus, it would need to be a considered choice, not an emotional response to rejection. Too much attention from me at this point may serve to push her away, but no compassion at all may send as strong an emotional message that she was right to walk away from me.

Any advice?


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## Susan2010 (Apr 19, 2010)

Robrobb said:


> Comfort spouse if OM walks away from EA?


Absolutely not!


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

What the f*ck....


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Actually yes you should offer them some comfort and allow them to greive. They have to turn to someone or bottle it all up inside them.

Turning to you is going to be the best of the options.

It's not easy, but can play a role in rebuilding the bonds. And yes it is "unfair", but forgiveness isn't about justice.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Yes - I agree with Athlok. The _point_ of marriage is to be the support partner for your spouse - even if they do stupid things. No, you don't enable, nor even allow the affair to go unhindered - but there is a point - when an affair ends - where there is genuine grief. Getting past that is difficult - but necessary. And as the partner of your spouse - isn't it best to 'be there' when things go bad? 

This is an opportunity to not only be a very good listener, a shoulder to cry on - but also to let your wife know that YOU are still there. Let her know that you intent to love her, and that you are her best friend. 

She will notice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Go to the bookstore today and get Surviving An Affair. Learn about meeting her needs BUT NOT ACCEPTING HER CHEATING. 

There is a big difference in meeting needs and being a doormat.

Women do NOT RESPECT doormats.


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks to all for the feedback. I've given gentle support so far. I'll see her tomorrow for the family holiday gathering, and will talk/listen more then.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How about, instead of LISTENING, you do a little TALKING...about the fact that you will not stay married to a cheater. Then just walk away and let her think about it.

She NEEDS to see you strong.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

I have to agree with turnera...but I would and will take great pleasure when the OM she denies, up and leaves, my wife has been threatening divorce for a month now, I'm waiting and ready to reveal what ever, but I guess comforting a cheater works for some..:scratchhead:


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have to agree with turnera...but I would and will take great pleasure when the OM she denies, up and leaves, my wife has been threatening divorce for a month now, I'm waiting and ready to reveal what ever, but I guess comforting a cheater works for some..


You miss the point. It's not comforting a cheater. It's comforting the addict who is going through withdrawals. It is comforting your spouse. 

Would you seriously consider punishing the addict with any kind of retributive behavior because of the things they did as an addict? Or, even more to the point - take out a little vengeance on the addict for the things they may experience when the drug is removed?

Looking into the future: if the addict went through some bad withdrawals, and yelled some rather inappropriate things at you when during 'cold turkey' - and then you spent time 'getting back at them' for the pain they caused you...just how much effort would they be inclined to put into the future with you? 

Another way to look at it: the addict is crying and in pain - and you spend the time making sure to add to the pain - what kind of thing does this tell them about what they can expect from you in the future?

The addict must suffer the consequences of the withdrawal - but it is NEVER up to someone who care for them to make up new punishments to add to the problem. 

What Turnera says and what I am saying are not contrary - I am merely separating the scenario into two separate areas: while the pain is happening, you listen and comfort. When the pain has passed, you talk about how you have been affected - and what is to be done about it. In particular - show how the behavior of the Disloyal Spouse has damaged the relationship. And - at the same time - show what can be done - AND emphasize that it can be overcome. 

This cannot happen if the Loyal Spouse jumps at every chance to inflict a bit of payback for their pain. Kids do that - and it feels good (at the time) but a mature person will examine the consequences of each action to see how it will affect things in the future. The desire to inflict a little payback may 'feel' like the thing to do - but how will that affect the relationship in the future? Next time YOU hurt your spouse - next time you feel down - don't you believe that if YOU have the right to kick em when they are down - that THEY ALSO HAVE THAT RIGHT?

I propose that any relationship that includes 'tit for tat' and 'now I gotcha' as part of the deal - is a doomed one. Those actions are in NO WAY actions of love. And if they are not love, they are something else. Wonder what that could be called?


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## strawberry (Jun 21, 2010)

Robb,

what are u crazy??!! likes to be cuckold?? geez!


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

tanelornpete..you always make me see the otherside..but I guess the words don't do justice to the meaning, I would be glad if she got her feelings hurt if the OM is through with her, of course I would feel sorry also, I still do, love and resent her, 17 years is hard to erase in mere months, and a lot of my statements are bravado at worst, I realize part of Robs feelings are due to having another be the comforting person she has turned to, in my case more and more distrusts are surfacing the more I am away from her, today I found more crap out, nothing involving EA/PA stuff, but behind the back things, I'm no angel by any means but guilt if her OM leaves will not be something I experience, and if I get through my own demons of resentment, someday I can see her in a different light, and her see me the same, I just don't see Rob being as resentful as me so he can feel a little guilt I guess.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

2Daughters - I COMPLETETLY understand FEELING some measure of 'pleasure (that the right word?) or even a thinking of 'yeah, well that's just what you deserve!' - 

but I argue that those things should be kept to yourself - and that you ACT in a way that offers support to get through something difficult. The way I handle that sort of situation is to view it from an entirely objective way: this is a problem that must be handled, and this is the way it is handled. Seems cold and clinical at first, but when you actually offer the support someone craves - they do notice it. The trouble that caused the pain can be handled later - and much more effectively if both are on the same side...



> in my case more and more distrusts are surfacing the more I am away from her, today I found more crap out, nothing involving EA/PA stuff, but behind the back things, I'm no angel by any means but guilt if her OM leaves will not be something I experience, and if I get through my own demons of resentment, someday I can see her in a different light, and her see me the same, I just don't see Rob being as resentful as me so he can feel a little I guess.


I cannot imagine a situation in which you would (or should) feel guilt if the OM up and left her. I can't imagine anyone feeling GUILT for such a thing! If anything, a sense of justice - maybe even joy. That isn't the point. It isn't yours (or Rob's) feelings that are the issue. You CAN (and should) feel those things - but ACT in an entirely different way - _if you want to save your marriage_. Not everyone wants to.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

tanelornpete..you're right again, and I might add that whether one wants to save their marriage or not, they should ACT like it even if they don't care and if I can find that in me sooner than later, I will truly be a changed person.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would definitely comfort my spouse AFTER he stopped the affair and was in withdrawal - but NEVER before. Never if he still wanted OM but couldn't have him and just didn't have anywhere to go. Not until he gave UP that plan.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

If the Other Person walks away from the affair, it IS over. This is a big window of opportunity that would be a waste to avoid, simply because the Disloyal Spouse may deserve to feel bad.

I would never wait for the affair to be over to do a diligent Plan A. Quite often it is the fact that the Loyal Spouse is NOT actively listening to the Disloyal that infidelity ever even becomes a temptation. It may be well deserved sadness (and grief) - but that does not exclude me from empathy. Nor does empathy in any way excuse previous behavior. It is simply a reaction to what is happening NOW, and what is now is of far more importance than what is past - or what is to come, because it has the unique fortune of being able to shape what may come.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would wait to see what the WS does before deciding my course. I would always take the high road and do no harm, but if the WS continues to treat you as though he/she wants something 'better' than you and will continue to seek something better, I think you have a better chance of regaining them if you show strength, as in 'I love you, but I won't be your F-buddy just because your boyfriend dumped you. When you're ready to recommit to the marriage, I'll welcome you with open arms. Are you ready for that?'


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Would that I had the chance to make such a statement. Saw her last night a couple of hours....not a word about it.


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello all, here's an update.

Wife contacted me over the holiday weekend seeming upset, but pulled herself together in time to come to a family gathering for the 4th. She quickly returned to her habits during the week - withdrawn, playing WoW well into the night and, I suspect, during the day with the kids at home. She still plays with the OM, but has claimed that whatever they had is over (she didn't think it could be called a "relationship") and now they are just friends.

Last week I read through some of the longer threads on this forum, including a long one started by showtime about his wife's affair and how he made the right changes to bring her back to the marriage. It was, in short, an inspiration. He received lots of great advice from the forum, among them Tenelornpete, who gave the following advice when showtime discovered his wife's EA:



Tanelornpete said:


> There is a set process that you can use (we've found this to be very effective) by which you can recover your marriage.
> 
> _Before you start:_ make a vow to yourself that you will become the Greatest Spouse In The World. You will become the person your spouse married, the one they fell in love with.
> 
> ...


 
In my own marriage, we did the first step then basically moved onto step three - we entered counseling but she did not think she wanted to really work on the marriage. We agreed to give it three months to make this decision. In the meantime she continued her online affair and withdrew further from me and from the kids. Over last weekend, while reading through this thread, I reached the point at which I realized that I needed to take responsibility for the success of my marriage, with or without her, and began to make changes in my behavior. I found that I was spending a lot of time passive-aggressively complaining about her computer use, late nights with OM, trying to pick fights over the game and so on. I resolved to actually be the spouse I wanted to be - something I'd told myself for weeks but hadn't really executed. I planned to repeat the first step and, after consulting with our marriage counselor, do the skipped second step.

A big part of this was making an effort to please her in love-building ways. This is especially difficult because she's withdrawn from me almost completely and complained in our last counseling session that she wants me to leave her alone - if we're not doing a weekend apart we're together to do things with the kids, not one another, she said. So I approached her with requests to do a few things together on Saturday. She complained that we'd talked about this, and I explained again that I love her and want to spend time with her if she would like to as well. We are still married and, while she can decide how to spend her time, her affair with OM should not be occurring. I explained that her affair was influencing her decision on the future of our marriage, and even explained that she should end all contact with the OM if she wanted to work on the marriage, and why. (This was the first time I used the word "affair" with her; she didn't even mention it). I was surprisingly on message, didn't lose my cool - when she accused me of trying to control her and remove her from her friends, I countered with no, I was asking her to remove herself from the temptation/ influence of the OM, the guild they are both members of, and the game. She didn't lose it either, told me she wasn't ready to commit to the marriage yet. I told her I knew that, the time line we discussed was still okay, but that I know that I want to work on our marriage and that I still was going to ask to do things together from time to time. I also apologized for my more snide comments and complaining, and told her that, although I feel she is gaming too much, if there was an accomplishment in the game that she would want to share with others, that I would want to know of it and have the chance to support her.

The exchange went incredibly well in general. I came away from the talk feeling that I'd made a serious and positive step. My self-respect and confidence took an immediate leap and has stayed up in the days since. Even better, my sleep has improved since then - the last few nights I dropped right off and slept soundly, which I've not done at home since finding out of the EA. 

Next I'm considering step two - exposure. This is a provocative step, and so I've decided not to undertake it before discussing this with our marriage counselor. My wife is cautious of marriage counseling as it is - before taking things to the next level it's important to me to discuss this with him - my next individual appt is tomorrow. Another complication is her assertion that it's over between them - and I have no proof, only suspicion, that it is not. I know that they continue to interact on the game and clearly are in touch regularly, so it's not healthy, but I wonder if exposure now is the wrong move at the wrong time. Some of her friends have been told of OM by her and, according to my wife, think it's nothing to worry about. This had me for a while, but after reading showtime's story, I can see that she can easily have told her friends something very different from the truth. If we decide to go ahead, I've made a selection of a very few persons close to her and him that I can contact and made plans about what to tell them, so I feel I'm ready for this step. 

Then it's back to step three, which is difficult and ongoing - be a good spouse, don't put effort into selfish goals such as actively trying to break them up, and allow the consequences of her actions to occur. I can see that much of this battle will be fought by the children, which is worrying and painful, but they will tell her the truth straight up. 

So it goes. For those interested I'll keep this thread up to date.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

She'll never stop..realize that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

2Daughters said:


> She'll never stop..realize that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Never? Maybe it's blind faith but I believe that our chances of holding together are good if I can hold myself on track....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds good. I would see if I can find a way to investigate more carefully, just so you'll know for sure.

Continue to Plan A, give her a reason to choose you. Plan outings. Barbecues. Make your home an awesome place to be.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

WOW! finally a thread i can sink my teeth (more) into. methinks i'll have to come to Infidelity forum more often than others.

To Rob,
i think its commendable in some respects that u have the patience, forebearing, and honor to love yer W after this EA 1st hit and her "letdown/pain" after his (supposed) rejection of
her later on (not that i beleived any of it).
Then u gave us an update confirming my (and others too am sure..) suspicions that she's not over OM - EA just yet.

Which led me to wonder about some of the responses here. 
some of them consistent and some quite puzzling.

I too first read yer intial post and wanted to either ditch this 
thread or post a :wtf: like the 1st couple of posters.
Glad i didnt cause some of the heavywgts like T'Pete and
Turnera showed up w/ their std good/great posts.
(not blowing smoke up yer..........by the way U 2)

To T'Pete,
i know u know yer stuff as i've read some of yer substantial material here on TAM, but not yer links as of yet. what i am to say/add here is nothing new to u, but bear w/ me as i am posting it for many others who may come to view this thread.

:iagree: in principle w/ what u wrote and corrected somewhat after Turnera called u out on certain details. That being as i understand them, comforting and forgiveness, simply put.
In Robs case, he is dealing w/ a W who was lying/cheating on him, putting up resistance once confronted, and then lying/cheating once more, saying its over, OM dumped me. 

Coming from a judeo-christian viewpt on this matter, i see a mix of what Turnera is putting forth (tough usually) and your softer christian) well documented approach as being more effective. For instance if we "jump in" here where W has said OM dumped me, and i'm feeling "awfully blue" i dont think its a good idea to possibly reinforce or condone her bad behavior w/ some IMMEDIATE (<---important pt) comfort measures here re: OM (did Rob write he thought or she said "blues" were re: OM???).

Now if she said she felt bad about letting Rob down, then obviously an arm around or hug is required here; if not for Rob, but instead for OM, then sorry 'Pete (et al), this is where we probably disagree. U use an addict analogy to justify not going thru punishments upon withdrawal. I agree. no punishments upon withdrawal. one shouldnt gloat or inflict more damage here for the reasons u've given already. 
what this means day to day is: talk, laugh, listen etc., best as u can ('cuz u r hurting too) but dont commiserate w/ yer SO if they r feeling blue over someone other than u! (ridiculous!) 
But withdrawal 'Pete, is something nobody truly can go thru w/ 
u as u go thru its torturous pains alone!!! so too must Robs wife. U, me, Rob, we're on the outside lookin in, trying to throw them a rope, a ladder something, but NOT the DRUG that got them there in the 1st place. and the drug here may be having things too easy, too nice just as much as the opposite being true.

Love has it requirements, its rules and its own rhythms in order to survive and thrive. in this case, repentance is necessary first. the W surely does not exhibit any repentance that i can see based on what Rob has written. If she is not of a contrite spirit, then what happens is the doormat syndrome many here fear and dread going thru as the loyal spouse. which brings me to this.

some people are built/wired to be more selfish than average person and cannot handle the soft comfy approach to correcting their bad behavior. as much as i know the softer side of christianity is THE way to go (as the ideal) in teaching/showing many folks the "error of their ways," i know too, that it would take several lifetimes to teach SOME folk their lessons (and genome manipulation therapy.......too.)i.e., God himself!
some are pure opportunists. some are not. i dont know the percentages, but since we all carry a good deal of selfishness(sin nature) w/ us, i dont like the odds.......u digg?

I dont know if Robs wife is one of the tough love types or not.
I think it also possible, u set WS up for failure w/ too much nicey nice atmosphere, or condolences over her "lost" EA. And yes, too much toughness is no good either. 
ahhh, balance. one of my favorite words in the english language.

Balance. not an easy thing to do, be, or display when confronted w/ this type of crisis. I know i would need Gods help to do this in the best light, not my own, not hers, but whats most honoring to God. sometimes its not marriage which trumps all cards.
but THAT....is another story.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Get a keylogger and put it on the computer she uses. You will be able to monitor everything she types...the game, emails, sites she visits and especially any new email accounts you don't know of!!!


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Cheating on World of Warcraft? Sounds like the geekiest affair ever lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

Blue Moon said:


> Cheating on World of Warcraft? Sounds like the geekiest affair ever lol.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Blue Moon, you don't know the half of it. Actually this is a VERY common thing in Warcraft. See link below about a blog to collect stories of romance, from persons meeting in the games:

mmo couples

The game does add a nice second and third layer of fantasy to what the WS might already carry in his or her head - the other person is showing them a side of themselves online, not the whole picture,and both persons allow themselves to see what they want to see far more than would be possible with a face-to-face affair, plus, the game itself is a fantasy realm with another level of removal from reality.

Today's update: I discussed the idea with our counselor, who knows us both and has had individual sessions with each of us. He strongly recommended against exposure but supports continued self-improvement and showing of love to my wife. He is of the opinion that she's less likely than the general population of those in affairs to be deceitful about the current state of the relationship, and that exposure at this point would be a big-time wrong move. I know that at the end of our decision-making time, I'm not willing to leave our home, our kids or our marriage, and I suspect that, deep down, she feels the same way. If I'm right, we will each reach a point where we will choose to work together on the marriage, and enter that even-more-difficult second phase.

So I keep on keeping on, or whatever you like to say.


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

ShootMePlz! said:


> Get a keylogger and put it on the computer she uses. You will be able to monitor everything she types...the game, emails, sites she visits and especially any new email accounts you don't know of!!!


This one's a show-stopper for me. I don't want to violate any more of her trust than I have to date. As I'm trying to emphasize in our relationship with the children, you can influence best by example. I work to earn trust by being worthy of trust and by displaying trust. Even if I don't fully believe everything she tells me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell me, why does she have any reason to respect you and listen to you, if you don't respect yourself?


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

turnera said:


> Tell me, why does she have any reason to respect you and listen to you, if you don't respect yourself?


Turnera, you misunderstand. At the start of this affair, my level of self-respect was abyssmal. (Affairs start for reasons, right?) The last month has been, among other things, me building a new respect for myself. I'm extraordinarily happy with the progress I've made, so I'm content to allow some of the slights she's putting forth to continue, with caveats. She's been told how these slights are hurtful to me; she sees the consequences of her actions in real time (mostly the kids); and we have devised a time limit after which we're either really in or really out. Since I believe the most likely outcome is that we will re-engage with the marriage, I'm free to put my efforts into myself and into loving acts. By her own admission, an online affair is a limited thing - she knows logically that this is not something that can really become a genuine long-term relationship - previous link notwithstanding. Being the good husband, with support and advice from our marriage counselor and friends, can and may be the right move in this case.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

Robb,
sounds like to me "please maam, may i have another!"

yea, tantamount to a soon 2 come naughty spanking Robb.

your perogative of course but, i think they have some S&M rooms here at TAM, farther down the list that is. just go there
if we're talkin S&M/self esteem acting out issues, please.

really Robb, i think Tunera covered this aspect 4 u already; of 
W having to prove herself 1st, not just "here dear, here's the keys to the repaired car u semi-totaled last wk. love u, have a nice day on WoW while i am at work, bye!" 

:sleeping:/or soon will be unless someone sheds light here w/ better essayist skills than what i am reading/interpreting now.

no reinfocement. no condoning, no appeasement, period.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Robb, not all affairs start because something is wrong in the relationship (notice not all?), some spouses just want the elation of it, if that's the case they can then pin it all on their partner (which may or may not be the case), some spouses just have no self-control in these situations, not saying that's your case, just saying...show her the door, suffer alone for awhile, then move on...your self respect is still abyssmal..andit won't get better with her around:scratchhead:.want self respect?..kick her out!


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

2Daughters said:


> Robb, not all affairs start because something is wrong in the relationship (notice not all?), some spouses just want the elation of it, if that's the case they can then pin it all on their partner (which may or may not be the case), some spouses just have no self-control in these situations, not saying that's your case, just saying...show her the door, suffer alone for awhile, then move on...your self respect is still abyssmal..andit won't get better with her around:scratchhead:.want self respect?..kick her out!


Quoted for truth. I still don't understand the logic of showering somebody in love to show them what they can have if they act right. If she's e-screwing guys on WoW she doesn't deserve the love you have to give.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

To CB45 - tying this all into this thread:



> But withdrawal 'Pete, is something nobody truly can go thru w/u as u go thru its torturous pains alone!!! so too must Robs wife. U, me, Rob, we're on the outside lookin in, trying to throw them a rope, a ladder something, but NOT the DRUG that got them there in the 1st place. and the drug here may be having things too easy, too nice just as much as the opposite being true.


Allowing them to experience the pain of _withdrawal_ is not the same as 'commiserating' with them - that is, being empathetic, _while the withdrawal is happening._ It is never wrong to be a reflective listener, to help someone work through some pain or grief. You are advocating a two part 'consequence': 

1) you are experiencing withdrawal pain from the loss of your buzz.
2) You are feeling pain from me deciding to punish you for getting addicted.

Number 2 is additional and unnecessary. The NATURAL consequence is one thing: an artificial, added pain is something else entirely.

You wrote:



> what this means day to day is: talk, laugh, listen etc., best as u can ('cuz u r hurting too) but dont commiserate w/ yer SO if they r feeling blue over someone other than u! (ridiculous!)


What this means is that you get to be the judge and juror over them, rather than the helpmeet you vowed to be. If you refuse to empathize with their pain, you are simply not treating them in love. You are withholding comfort at a time when they are vulnerable - and the only reason is to punish them for hurting you. I understand that some people actually believe it is ok to inflict retribution for things their spouse does to them. I do not condone such an approach: in every case I've ever seen where this happens, it is indicative of a problem that was pre-existent in the marriage - and it one of the main reasons why the affair was chosen. 

In all cases, this is conditional to one thing only: the title of the thread - 'Comfort a spouse if OM walks away from EA'. It is conditional upon the affair ending. There is no reason to 'commiserate' with your Disloyal Spouse if there is a spat between Other Person and Disloyal - that's between them.

But to withhold comfort because someone had previously hurt you is simply punishing them for your pain. That is evil. 



> Love has it requirements, its rules and its own rhythms in order to survive and thrive. in this case, repentance is necessary first. the W surely does not exhibit any repentance that i can see based on what Rob has written. If she is not of a contrite spirit, then what happens is the doormat syndrome many here fear and dread going thru as the loyal spouse. which brings me to this.


_No_, doormat behavior is present when you allow your spouse to use you to continue the affair, when you allow them to cheat, steal and in other ways damage the marriage. Plan A is NOT doormat behavior, although it tends to feel that way to the person doing it, because you are treating your Disloyal Spouse the way they SHOULD be treated - without repayment in kind. It is that lack of repayment that gets people thinking they are being a doormat. It is a common mentality that an 'eye for an eye' is somehow moral behavior. The reason a Plan A is LIMITED TIME is because of the damage done to you - your love fire is slowly extinguished, and you end this phase when any further use of it will result in your simply walking away. It is never a doormat to comfort your spouse when they are in pain.

Nor is 'repentance' required to empathize. Repentance is required to begin recovering the marriage - repentance is the end of the first phase: Ending the Affair. But you may not even get to repentance if you spend all of your time making sure you get to repay your Disloyal Spouse for the pain they caused you. 



> some people are built/wired to be more selfish than average person and cannot handle the soft comfy approach to correcting their bad behavior. as much as i know the softer side of christianity is THE way to go (as the ideal) in teaching/showing many folks the "error of their ways," i know too, that it would take several lifetimes to teach SOME folk their lessons (and genome manipulation therapy.......too.)i.e., God himself!


The idea of comforting a spouse who is undergoing an emotional response to the fact that their 'lover' has left them has nothing to do with 'correcting' their bad behavior. In fact, it is the idea that you can 'correct' their behavior to which I am objecting in the first place. In a marriage, your job is NOT that of a parent. It is an adult - adult relationship. You are NOT the judge, this is not a 'state vs cheater' relationship. This is spouse to spouse. Ending an affair means making sure that YOU handle YOUR responsibility in rectifying the hurt YOU caused, and your spouse does the same. Neither of you is granted the right to inflict punishment on the other. At most, you allow the consequences of their actions to occur. And withholding comfort when their lover leaves them, and they find themselves suddenly lost is not a consequence. In this situation, the FEELING OF LOSS is the consequence. Unless you are willing to walk away from the marriage (which is your moral right in the case of infidelity) you do not have the right to purposefully make them hurt more than they already are. 

For is this not the general idea behind withholding empathy? The cheating spouse loses their 'lover' and they suddenly find themselves lost in the fog - and who is the light that can show them the way home? Instead, you turn off the lighthouse lamp in order for them to feel bad. And this, in what way, gives them the impression that they would be welcome back home? 

Incidentally, the 'softer' side of Christianity (heaping coals on their head) is not intended to show people the 'error of their ways.' That's a misunderstanding of the basic notion of the human condition. Won't go into that more here. 



> I dont know if Robs wife is one of the tough love types or not. I think it also possible, u set WS up for failure w/ too much nicey nice atmosphere, or condolences over her "lost" EA. And yes, too much toughness is no good either. ahhh, balance. one of my favorite words in the english language.


I don't go for 'tough love' and 'soft love' - I argue that it is ours to treat all people with love. Love can come across tough (as in removing the drug from the addict and refusing to supply more of it) - but circumstances, not persons, generate this requirement. Love is treating people with respect and honor. It is to have compassion on the wounded, and guidance for the confused. It is that way for everyone. 



> Balance. not an easy thing to do, be, or display when confronted w/ this type of crisis.


As long as you get to the heart of the crisis, there is no problem knowing what to do. Your job, when your spouse is wandering away is simple: if you purpose to fix your marriage, you become the light that leads them home. If you chose to leave your marriage, you turn off the light and go elsewhere. The balance that you seek in in determining where your spouse is - are the still in the arms of another? Then you act in 'this certain way'. If they are not, then you act 'in this way'.

For 2Daugters:



> Robb, not all affairs start because something is wrong in the relationship (notice not all?), some spouses just want the elation of it, if that's the case they can then pin it all on their partner (which may or may not be the case), some spouses just have no self-control in these situations, not saying that's your case,


A) I agree with you, not all affairs start because something is wrong in the marriage. I hold that option open. However, I have yet to find ONE single instance in which this occurred. I've simply never seen it. 

B) If the spouse is out for the thrill of it, that means the thrill is gone at home, eh? Is that not a problem at home - PRIOR to the affair? Again, yet to find one single case...


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Tanelornpete said:


> A) I agree with you, not all affairs start because something is wrong in the marriage. I hold that option open. However, I have yet to find ONE single instance in which this occurred. I've simply never seen it.
> 
> B) If the spouse is out for the thrill of it, that means the thrill is gone at home, eh? Is that not a problem at home - PRIOR to the affair? Again, yet to find one single case...



Eh, I don't know. Most guys have had that one friend who no matter what just can't keep it in his pants. He could be treated like a king at home but still for whatever reason won't turn down anything but his collar. And the same goes for women. Sometimes people just cheat.

And also, there is no perfect marriage. Never has been and never will be. There will ALWAYS be moments where something is lacking in every marriage. The distinguishing factor is how you handle it. If you bring up issues first and try to fix them then you're a good spouse. If you run out on your partner and cheat and then tell them everything that has been wrong after you get caught then you're a bad spouse. The cheater may very well have a good point but they're dead wrong for skipping over the chance to make things better and choosing to simply break vows.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> And also, there is no perfect marriage. Never has been and never will be. There will ALWAYS be moments where something is lacking in every marriage. The distinguishing factor is how you handle it. If you bring up issues first and try to fix them then you're a good spouse. If you run out on your partner and cheat and then tell them everything that has been wrong after you get caught then you're a bad spouse. The cheater may very well have a good point but they're dead wrong for skipping over the chance to make things better and choosing to simply break vows.


Your last sentence says it all. The cheater could very well have a GREAT point (in nearly every case I've dealt with this has been the rule) - and they chose the WRONG solution. This in no way implies that there were no problems in the marriage. 

Your point about immature men who 'can't keep it in their pants' also illuminates the need for something that is completely missing in modern society (pretty much world wide, but more common in the west) - people no longer understand that value of their word. It no longer has any meaning. Everyone, from the lowest street urchin to the highest government official, religions leaders and shopkeepers, all speak one thing and do another. Commitment is to one's 'happiness' - not to the marriage!


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Bluemoon is correct in some people just can't help themselves, could be something that happened to them prior to the marriage, and like Blue stated, all marriages have problems, it's just some people use those as an excuse to cheat, and if you look for an excuse, you will find an excuse, it's like the 'Leading a horse to water' analogy, some people don't want to work on it, and it sucks if someone marries that type.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

2Daughters said:


> show her the door, suffer alone for awhile, then move on...your self respect is still abyssmal..andit won't get better with her around:scratchhead:.want self respect?..kick her out!


Well if I'd taken that approach two years ago when I went through a very similar scenario I wouldn't be going home tonight to a wife who loves me and a marriage that is in better shape than it's been in years. 

A couple of focus points from my stand point. 

*Judgment:* When the EA ended, only then did my wife fully realize what that relationship was. It finally came to light it was much more than a friendship. She had been in denial about it for some time. When she told me the EA was over the look of shame in her eyes, the pain she showed in her with drawl from the world told me there was no reason to judge her, she had brought more down on herself than I ever could. It was now time for her to deal with it and get past it. Did I pat her wrist and tell her "Aw honey, it'll all be OK." No, but I did understand the relationship, how she got there and my hand in making her vulnerable to it. If she needed to talk, we talked, if she needed a hug, I gave her one. I didn't dote on her but she knew I was there as her husband if she needed support.

*Empathy:* While I never condoned her decision to turn to someone else emotionally I understood it and understood how disappointed she was in herself. I didn't coddle her but I knew now that he was out of the picture she would with time need to turn to me for emotional support. That happened over the next couple of months. 

*Vindictiveness:* If the objective is to recover the marriage, rubbing her face in the urine stained carpet wont accomplish that. While you may get some short term satisfaction with it it wont fix the situation.

*Self Respect* I've never had a shortage of it but I've probably never had more than taking that broadside from my wife "My feelings for him are deeper than I could have ever imagined Amp." maintained both my self control and my empathy for her in what could have been the moment it all unraveled and ended. I still sometimes wonder how I managed it.

*The Silver Lining* I had very little knowledge of what an EA was but was coming to understand it when this finally all came to a head. I finally understood that in order for my efforts to salvage the marriage to have any chance at all, the EA had to end. I remember that uneasy feeling of bitter/sweet on my drive to work that day. While she months later stubbed her toe the EA did end and when that happened our recovery gained momentum.

This is how it all played out for us and for us it was successful. Good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nicely said.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

You waited for her and that was awesome!!!...lots of folks don't wait for it to die down, I guess it comes down to how deep the EA/PA is.


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## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

gee Pete,
i'm gonna have to get out the MSword to respond to yer usual submission of voluminous work, as i'll time out fer sure o/wise here.

in short i'll say AGAIN, that i agree w/ u in principal but the way u worded yer backup reply to Robb's "comfort" thoughts/measures was softer/weaker than i remembered u explaining Plan A, Plan B, etc before. (by the way, didnt know we were discussing yer A & B tenets here, so dont get riled up over yer baby being "handled".....lol)

also i think u quoted some of my generalities and tried to attach incorrect specifics to them. i can do that pretty well on my own thank u very much./:lol:

in the end, i'm guessing tho' there'll be plenty we agree on, there'll also be some specifics we will not. i hope those said specifics aren't the bi-product of SEMANTIC (only) debate.

i suggest so as to not rudely tit a tat and hijack this thread, we discourse via the PM feature on this matter or any others that arise from it.

it'll certainly be easier to keep up/follow.

i await yer response.


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## NotJustMe (Jun 24, 2010)

2Daughters said:


> Bluemoon is correct in some people just can't help themselves, could be something that happened to them prior to the marriage, and like Blue stated, all marriages have problems, it's just some people use those as an excuse to cheat, and if you look for an excuse, you will find an excuse, it's like the 'Leading a horse to water' analogy, some people don't want to work on it, and it sucks if someone marries that type.


People can always help themselves. Cheating is as much of a DECISION as getting married is. Nothing makes a person turn to infidelity, period. Any sort of justification as to why they did it is just another excuse.

That's not saying that infidelity cannot be excused, as most of the time an affair develops because a spouse doesn't know how to communicate what the marriage is lacking to the other, or the faithful spouse doesn't listen very well at all.

But "monogamy isn't in my nature" and "I just can't help myself" are a load of BS. All those words translate into are "I am not mature enough to handle the effort that a marriage requires."


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## Robrobb (Jun 18, 2010)

So I don't really know how to respond to the various comments since yesterday. I have forced myself to consider if I have built any genuine self respect, and sadly, I don't know the real answer. How does one take the measure of that? I know that, before the "break" I had few friends and didn't keep in touch with them - I was ashamed of my life. Today I can look at myself in the mirror with a measure of pride. I can speak to old friends frankly, and have taken concrete steps to bring my life under control (more than just my marriage). My wife hurt me badly but it's not without its benefits. We've entered counseling, I'm looking critically at myself and the way I interact with my family as I never have before, even losing weight and exercising. Today I see myself as a man, where before I would have balked at such a label. 

I know we're moving along the line from marriage issues to personal issues that have an impact on the marriage here, so we ought not go any deeper really. However, I see the progress I've made as genuine. Do I respect myself? Who knows, but it looks an awful lot like I do. I still love my wife and have made a considered decision to wait this out, not because I'm afraid of doing anything else, but because I want to build a strong marriage with my wife better than anything else in life. If it doesn't work out, I'll move on. If it does, I'll have even more work to do - but work I expect to be rewarding.

Thanks for all of your comments.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Robrobb said:


> My wife hurt me badly but it's not without its benefits. We've entered counseling, I'm looking critically at myself and the way I interact with my family as I never have before, even losing weight and exercising. Today I see myself as a man, where before I would have balked at such a label.


Sometimes a marriage has to take a serious shot over the bow for both parties to really understand what is going on and how bad of shape it is in. While this may hurt like hell you both need to embrace the moment as an opportunity to have a better and stronger marriage in the long run. Good luck.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Amplexor said:


> Sometimes a marriage has to take a serious shot over the bow for both parties to really understand what is going on and how bad of shape it is in. While this may hurt like hell you both need to embrace the moment as an opportunity to have a better and stronger marriage in the long run. Good luck.



QTF (quoted for truth)!! :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

NotJustMe said:


> People can always help themselves. Cheating is as much of a DECISION as getting married is. Nothing makes a person turn to infidelity, period. Any sort of justification as to why they did it is just another excuse.
> 
> That's not saying that infidelity cannot be excused, as most of the time an affair develops because a spouse doesn't know how to communicate what the marriage is lacking to the other, or the faithful spouse doesn't listen very well at all.
> 
> But "monogamy isn't in my nature" and "I just can't help myself" are a load of BS. All those words translate into are "I am not mature enough to handle the effort that a marriage requires."


Not what I was saying at all. I was just saying that some people refuse to stay faithful no matter how good it is at home. A person isn't always "driven" to cheat. That's a cop out lots of times imo.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I was just saying that some people refuse to stay faithful no matter how good it is at home. A person isn't always "driven" to cheat. That's a cop out lots of times imo.


1) The choice of an affair is ALWAYS a cop out.

2) The idea that one is 'driven' to having an affair is also always a cop out. 

3) Stating that some people refuse to stay faithful at home is an ivory tower statement: it's a possibility, but as yet, I've never seen this. It's equivalent to saying that a person who has just stuffed themselves at a good restaurant will immediately walk into the one next door and order another meal. Of _course_ someone could do it - but finding someone who actually does is well, rare, if at all.


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