# How do I get my mind back?



## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I need help.

I had an affair that lasted a couple months and ended about 6 months ago. My wife and I reconciled, and by all appearances our marriage is ok.

My problem is that I can't get the other woman out of my head. I have had no contact with her, but I think about her every day. Before we broke off contact, I know she had found another man and I burn with jealousy and a desire to smash his face.

I want to have my mind back. I would delete all knowledge of her existence if I could; completely delete her from memory. Instead she pops up in my mind every single day. If I think about going out, I'll think about how much more fun it would be with her. She even comes up often in conversation with my wife, even though I never bring her up. The truth is that I miss her and I hate that I do.

Everything about these thoughts is irrational. I've completely lost myself. 

How do I make it stop!? Help me!


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## Sestina (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm a BS, so I'm not the best person to be answering this, but I did read a bunch of psychology books on infidelity and it sounds like what you're experiencing could be pretty normal. I'm not sure about six months out, though. Have you tried IC?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

So, seeking out counseling is important. You're experiencing what is known as affair fog. The attachment to the OW is like an addiction. It's hard to break off but you must. 

Every time the OW comes to mind, picture your wife's pain. After a while, the thought of OW will be associated with pain. 

Spend lots and lots of one one one time with your wife. Talk about how you met and fell in love. Do things together that you enjoy, take walks, have dinner. As much time as you can devote to your wife, do it. Make love to her as much as possible, cuddle and hold her.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

Sestina said:


> I'm a BS, so I'm not the best person to be answering this, but I did read a bunch of psychology books on infidelity and it sounds like what you're experiencing could be pretty normal. I'm not sure about six months out, though. Have you tried IC?


IC? Counseling? I was seeing a therapist at the recommendation of a close friend who was aware of my situation near the end of the affair. The therapist didn't seem to help at all. I discovered I had a lot of underlying issues from childhood that she says adversely affected how I handle emotion and relationships. She never seemed to point me to anything that would help though. It just seemed like I was going in there every week and just telling the week's soap opera and all my inner conflicts... with no light at the end of the tunnel or suggestions as to what to do. If I was hard on myself she'd compliment me, if I was passing blame she'd attack me. I understand more about myself, but she never gave me a solution! The books she asked me to read basically categorize me as Asocial and/or NPD and am conditioned to instability... so normal calm life and love seems like a problem to me. She had me buy this love book that's filled with ideas to rekindle relationships and I've been following it with my wife, but I'm still stuck with thoughts of the OW. 

The therapist did give me an analogy that rings pretty true: I am a cup with a hole it it. The water in the cup is my sense of worth and happiness, and I use people to fill the cup because I can't fill it myself. I maintain relationships as long as they're giving me this narcisstic supply... filling my cup. When the cup is full I think I'm awesome. When the cup is empty I think I'm worthless and seek out new sources to fill it. No matter what, the cup drains. She said I needed to learn to fill my own cup. But she never seemed to get back to the real world and tell me how to do that.

Eventually I became fed up with therapy being useless metaphoric babbling, and constantly talking about it making myself even more insane. So I quit going and I just went and killed the affair through sheer force of will, staying with my wife because it was the more logical thing to do (it had the least risk).

I'm trying hard to be a good husband, but I feel betrayed by my own thoughts. I'm in hell.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Every time the OW comes to mind, picture your wife's pain. After a while, the thought of OW will be associated with pain.


The big reason I went to counseling was that I didn't really feel the guilt people talk about and I didn't know what I wanted. I rationalized everything away and apparently I suck at proper empathy. I rationally don't like my wife feeling hurt, but I think there's something wrong with the way I process it as an emotion. Hard to explain. Despite all this, I love my wife... if I even know what love is. I know it doesn't make sense and I'm explaining the best I can. Its like I'm a vampire and I've sucked her dry. Nothing she does feeds me the way it used to. I know that I'm the problem.



TCSRedhead said:


> Spend lots and lots of one one one time with your wife. Talk about how you met and fell in love. Do things together that you enjoy, take walks, have dinner. As much time as you can devote to your wife, do it. Make love to her as much as possible, cuddle and hold her.


I've been trying to - I've taken over most of the household chores, we go out just us every other week, but like I said, when I take her out my stupid brain thinks "this would be more fun w OW". When I think about she was when we met and fell in love, I think "you used to be like this".

On the sexual side, we have a communication problem. She prefers me to be the initiator... to just come and touch and put her to be in the mood. I get tired of feeling like I need to convince her, I want to be lured... I want some indication that she actually desires me (and yes, I'm a good looking guy, I take very good care of myself; she is still hot too). Because of this and kids and general life, we don't have much sex. She even tells me that she doesn't feel confident enough to lure me. The other day she was sitting on the couch in a way I thought was provacative and I went after her. Turned out it was that time of the month, and she wasn't trying to get my attention. ::: frustrating ::: I've asked her if there are things I can do to make her more sexually interested in coming at me since she doesn't feel comfortable giving me signals (she used to come at me all the time years ago). She says she always thinks I'm hot, she likes seeing me in the shower or whatever, but she doesn't want to initiate. Its like chicken and egg.

I'll deal with all our common problems, but being able to keep my mind off the OW is entirely on me, and I can't seem to do it and its driving me crazy. I hate it. I don't know what to do.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

Sorry I'm writing books in my posts. I'm rambling.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

I would try MC.

As for thinking of the OW I would suggest that you stop your self from thinking about her the moment you start to think of her. If you are thinking "this would be more fun with her" stop your self and say to your self "this is going to be a great time with my wife" You have complete control over what you are thinking. Eventually these unwanted thoughts will stop but you have to take control of what you are letting your mind do.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

You had a crappy therapist - find one who does less 'touchy feely' sessions and more assignment based sessions where you have a specific homework assignment for the week.

IF, and I mean IF, you are truly remorseful for what you have done, then you will bend over backwards to do the things I talked about above and stop making excuses about why you can't, or won't, etc.

YOU are the one who destroyed the trust in the marriage and YOU are the one who needs to do the heavy lifting to fix it - including bringing back sex and intimacy. Start with light seducing, via text during the day talk about what you are going to do to her later. Ask her to email you telling you what she wants you do to - detailed. It will begin that process.

Since you can't or won't feel empathy for your wife, then every time the OW comes to mind, shut it down. Don't allow yourself to dwell or continue the thought. Period. If you can't commit to that, then do your wife a favor and file for divorce because you don't really love her.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

FeedbackLoop said:


> IC? Counseling? I was seeing a therapist at the recommendation of a close friend who was aware of my situation near the end of the affair. The therapist didn't seem to help at all. I discovered I had a lot of underlying issues from childhood that she says adversely affected how I handle emotion and relationships. She never seemed to point me to anything that would help though. It just seemed like I was going in there every week and just telling the week's soap opera and all my inner conflicts... with no light at the end of the tunnel or suggestions as to what to do. If I was hard on myself she'd compliment me, if I was passing blame she'd attack me. I understand more about myself, but she never gave me a solution! The books she asked me to read basically categorize me as Asocial and/or NPD and am conditioned to instability... so normal calm life and love seems like a problem to me. She had me buy this love book that's filled with ideas to rekindle relationships and I've been following it with my wife, but I'm still stuck with thoughts of the OW.
> 
> The therapist did give me an analogy that rings pretty true: I am a cup with a hole it it. The water in the cup is my sense of worth and happiness, and I use people to fill the cup because I can't fill it myself. I maintain relationships as long as they're giving me this narcisstic supply... filling my cup. When the cup is full I think I'm awesome. When the cup is empty I think I'm worthless and seek out new sources to fill it. No matter what, the cup drains. She said I needed to learn to fill my own cup. But she never seemed to get back to the real world and tell me how to do that.
> 
> ...


Your therapist may be hitting the nail on the head. It may be hard to accept that information, but it may be true. 

If you are still thinking about this affair women then you are not into your marriage and truly focused on your wife. This is not fair to her or to you. 

If you truly think the therapist information does not fit you, then maybe hypnosis will help break the addictive focus on your ex affair partner. It's worth a try. You need to have reinforcement sessions periodically until the addiction is broken.


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## ShatteredinAL (Feb 5, 2012)

I can almost guarantee that your wife senses something is still not right. She doesn't want to be that vulnerable to you, and who could blame her?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Elvis had the same problem as you...

(Elvis Costello that is, and sadly he doesn't offer a solution - only a heart rending song.)

Elvis Costello & Burt Bacharach - I Still Have That Other Girl - YouTube


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

It is upto you to *resolve *to ignore your affair partner. Although it takes time. Ignore and ignore and ignore every thought about her.

The more you ignore, the more you win.

You must also realize your own deficiencies in being loyal to your wife. If you have OW in your mind, you are becoming disloyal to your wife.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> every time the OW comes to mind, shut it down. Don't allow yourself to dwell or continue the thought. Period. If you can't commit to that, then do your wife a favor and file for divorce because you don't really love her.


This. Don't relive, don't fantasize, don't daydream, don't feed it. You can't avoid poping thoughts, you can decide to reject them and refocus.
Was the OW a persuer, did she chase you or was it the opposite way? What happened when you and your wife got together, did he chase you?

Brad new toys always draw attention even when the old one is still very enjoyable.
Unless you reframe your need of external valitation by filling your soul with healthy things the emptiness will be there forever.
Don't you think your wife would enjoy a new toy too?


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## ShatteredinAL (Feb 5, 2012)

FeedbackLoop said:


> Before we broke off contact, I know she had found another man and I burn with jealousy and a desire to smash his face.


Now imagine your wife with another man. Do you have the same reaction? You'll soon find out.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> You had a crappy therapist - find one who does less 'touchy feely' sessions and more assignment based sessions where you have a specific homework assignment for the week.


She did give me a couple assignments... things like listing what I needed, and things I loved about my wife, reading assignments etc.



TCSRedhead said:


> YOU are the one who destroyed the trust in the marriage and YOU are the one who needs to do the heavy lifting to fix it - including bringing back sex and intimacy. Start with light seducing, via text during the day talk about what you are going to do to her later. Ask her to email you telling you what she wants you do to - detailed. It will begin that process.


I have been doing that. We still fizzle out. By the time we get from texting at work, to picking up kids and afterschool activities, dinner, baths and bedtime... what's built up is long gone. I feel strange coming on to her for sex if she's not giving me any sort of signals... and she can't tell me what I should do to send a signal to her. She says she always thinks I'm just playing around and dismisses it. This is all okay though, its something we're aware of, talking about and are working on.



TCSRedhead said:


> Since you can't or won't feel empathy for your wife, then every time the OW comes to mind, shut it down. Don't allow yourself to dwell or continue the thought. Period. If you can't commit to that, then do your wife a favor and file for divorce because you don't really love her.


Its not that I can't or won't... its that I just don't have this feeling of pain/guilt over what I did even though I know it was wrong and a mistake. I feel worse that the OW keeps popping into my mind when I don't want to think about her than I do over the affair itself... and I know that's terrible, but there it is. My therapist said it was an asocial thing or something... that I've put my wife in a sort of emotional box and shut her out. Maybe a defense from things I was unhappy about in our marriage... or maybe from feeling I did wrong? I dont know. Like I shut off from her emotionally, and that I probably wouldn't feel guilty until I was emotionally connected again.

I DEFINITELY don't dwell on the OW... these are passing thoughts, but they keep coming regularly. It was really hard to go back, cutting off the affair felt like cutting off my arm. I almost didn't out of simply not wanting to face the music so to speak. I thought long and hard about just running away. I feel like I have no credibility/authority at home anymore... like I have no right to counter anything my wife has to say, I'm inclined to just defer to whatever she wants since she has this eternal thing to hold over my head. Then the OW pops in my head and I feel like I have control of nothing.

Does life ever get back to normal or good again or is the well poisoned?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

It's a choice - choose to put the OW out of your mind and put ALL your attention and efforts on your wife (which you seem to be unwilling to do) OR

Do your wife a favor and file for divorce because you don't really love her.

No man or woman wants to be Plan B in their own marriage.


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## Grey Goose (Aug 23, 2012)

I am a pretty hurt BS so here are my thoughts: I do not think you are ready to be with your wife and pushing it won't make it better. The only way you will be able to be with her and your family is when you realize that yo DO love her and the only thing you want in your life is to be with her. 

Sorry but if this is not what you are thinking or feeling you are not going to be able to have a succesful R and will only hurt her again. Do IC and/or MC but I do not think you guys should be together.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

Acabado said:


> This. Don't relive, don't fantasize, don't daydream, don't feed it. You can't avoid poping thoughts, you can decide to reject them and refocus.
> Was the OW a persuer, did she chase you or was it the opposite way? What happened when you and your wife got together, did he chase you?
> 
> Brad new toys always draw attention even when the old one is still very enjoyable.
> ...


I don't relive or fantasize at all. Its the pop-in thoughts that are driving me crazy. Its like several times a day. Some are triggered by events I might expect, like a boring night sitting with my wife watching tv, or struggling with the kids... others come in the form of comparison when my wife is telling me some story or whatever in the car and it dawns on me how disinterested in the story I am even though I'm trying to listen... and I end up thinking about how much I enjoyed talking to the OW. The instant comparisons in my head come over and over. Then I feel like crap for not being able to control where my mind goes... I get angry at myself. I'm in a very bad place. I feel like a terrible person. I feel like I have no value and have no right to speak... anything I say just gets viewed as an excuse or defense of my actions or a rationalization. I'm in no-man's land.

As far as who pursued who, its somewhat complicated. I basically had an emotional affair with one woman first, and a full-blown affair with another. The first woman pursued me hard. I had blown off aggressive pursuits by other women during my marriage before... but this one came during a time I was already discontent at home... that's the only reason I can think as to why I didn't shut her down as I had done others in the past. It felt so amazing that this woman was so in to me, and I really missed having that feeling. Before anything happened though, she did a 180 and got with another guy. I felt rejected... and wanted the feeling back.

So then I actively pursued someone else and got the feeling back. I can only describe it as an addiction. I'd have done almost anything to feel that way again and stop feeling rejected or ignored (home). So the affair began... and the OW was another of the types that fill you up with praise and thinks you're the greatest thing since sliced bread. I can't even describe the feeling.

I was in a deep depression when I met my future wife at the start of college. I had basically turned emotional life off and was just putting one foot in front of the other until I could get somewhere I wanted to be. I had extremely low self esteen and was in and out of relationships with whomever came along showing interest (boy did I have some ugly gfs... I shudder now at how low my standards were). My wife spotted me days before I spotted her. The day I finally did see her, she waved at me and I chased. We went out a few times, she literally showed me off to her friends... I thought it was a joke at my expense at first. I thought she was soo far out of my league. I never would have bothered to try to pick her up if not for her clear signs of interest. Even after we started dating, I probably would have sabotaged it with my insecurity if not for how crazy about me she seemed to be.

I've come to understand via therapy that this is textbook narcisism (yeah, I tend to think I'm great when it comes to certain things... I'm not as bad as what I've read of narcisists though) and low self esteem. Knowing doesn't seem to help.

I don't know that my wife would enjoy a new toy. She still tells me regularly that if we had divorced she would probably just be alone for a long long time because she's not attracted to and generally doesn't like other men, and has few opportunities to meet someone. Even so, for about two months after cutting off the affair, I was sure she would cheat on me to get even... its what I would probably do. I'm not sure I didn't welcome the idea in the twisted sense that at least she would have nothing to hold over my head. No ace in the hole she could pull out whenever we're butting heads... not that she ever has. At the least it would have restored some balance of power in the relationship rather than my feeling like a beaten dog. Would I have been angry or jealous? Probably, but that would have been buried under a deep layer of "I deserved it".

It wasn't even the physical part that bothered her most. It was that I was having my emotional needs met by someone else. That I was sharing intimate knowledge and companionship with someone else. I valued someone else above her, to make me feel better about myself.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> It's a choice - choose to put the OW out of your mind and put ALL your attention and efforts on your wife (which you seem to be unwilling to do)


Why do you think I'm unwilling? This is what I've been trying to do with everything I have. I'm here because thoughts of the OW keep coming up involuntarily.

If there were a way to erase it all from my mind I would. It just won't stop. I have put pictures of my family on my phone lock screen, my desktops, laptop, frames in my office... I schedule family activities and date nights, I've taken on most of the household chores, I've stopped doing things I traditionally do that she dislikes (staying up later than her for example).

Still these thoughts come. I'd have thought after so many months this would have gone away by now.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Feedbackloop,

When your wife found out about your affair; what was the aftermath? Was it rug swept to any degree by her? Did you have to suffer through not knowing whether she would stay with you? Did you fully understand the pain she must have endured? 

When CS's suffer significant emotional consequences of their betrayal, this can help them snap out of the affair fog. I'm wondering if your wife helped you suffer them. If not, she could have used this forum.

I'll leave it up to someone more knowledgeable about narcissism than me, to suggest that could be part of your problem.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

The things that you find boring and uninteresting is called life. Kids, school, bills, cars, home, sickness, and all the other mundane things that are a part of the life you have.

The fantasy you have with this other woman would quickly fade if you were actually with her and she was not your on-the-side diversion. If you were with her as her husband guess what comes along as part of that? All the things you find uninteresting, mundane and boring. She was/is - a fantasy. 

With your wife you talk about the kids, the bills, taking out the garbage. With OW it was sex, secret meetings, romantic dinners, how much you want each other. It was/is an escape from life for you. Some people use drugs, some alcohol, some cheat. But real life is always there when you wake up.

How do you put the fantasy out of your mind? Step one is realizing that OW was an escape from reality. You long for that escape, not her. Accept the life you have and try to make that better for your family.

Or get a divorce, move to a deserted island where you can escape from reality and live out your fantasies without hurting anyone but you.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

You're reflecting and thinking of OW the way you SHOULD be thinking about your wife. The fact that you're selfish and self-centered enough to give that interloper a single positive thought or moment is unbelievable. I can tell you that every time OM has come to mind, I instantly think of the expression on my husband's face when he discovered the affair. I think about how my daughters looked at me knowing their mother had cheated and lied. The association of the OM is in no way pleasant or positive. I feel embarrassed, ashamed and pathetic. I can't believe I would have done something so dumb and hurtful. 

The fact that they aren't painful and that they're still 'positive' in your brain indicate that you are not really remorseful nor ready to be back in your marriage. My guess is that your wife hasn't really held you accountable and made you do the heavy lifting in the reconciliation.

If I was the betrayed spouse in your relationship, you'd be back out the door until true remorse set in.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

read through this post and see what truths you can gather....it did wonders for me......by the way my mind still wonders over to my inappropriate friend 12 months after I walked away....It does take some time...good luck

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/1198354-post1424.html


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I would bet it's the whole 'beaten dog' thing. You get no gratifying validation from your wife, not from anything she's done, but from what you've done & no one can change that. Your A is a simple fact and will never go away. It's always going to be there between you and your W. With the OW, though, that lowering baggage isn't there - the psychological playing field is much more level between the two of you. So, it's fun to be with the OW, but no fun to be with your W, whose very existence is a constant reminder that you've 'unleveled' the playing field & have no one to blame but yourself.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

badmemory said:


> Feedbackloop,
> 
> When your wife found out about your affair; what was the aftermath? Was it rug swept to any degree by her? Did you have to suffer through not knowing whether she would stay with you? Did you fully understand the pain she must have endured?
> 
> ...


I had been lying to the OW. My wife found out about the affair on her own and told the her. A cat fight ensued that left me bewildered and going back and forth. More lies to both about who I was going to stay with... looking back I kept dragging things on because I didn't know what I wanted and neither one left me. If someone told me the story I wouldn't believe it. Two women fighting to keep me even after all the terrible things I did... its crappy but I felt like something special... its so stupid. That feeling, and knowing how twisted it is, and the advice of a close confidant got me to go to therapy... something I generally thought of as a joke. Something for weak minded people who can't handle life. I also knew I'd probably lie and try to manipulate the therapist eventually out of some sort of quasi-embarrassment. I'm very conscious of my image and how I'm perceived by others.

My wife finally broke down, and not in tears, that happened early. She informed both our families, my carefully built image was destroyed. She gave up trying to keep me around, talked to a lawyer and sat down with me to divide assets. All seriousness and no more emotion.

I was gone for a couple days, resigned to the fact that I was going to be divorced... I was numb. I went and got drunk with the OW. Then one day I just broke. It wasn't so much a crying emotional breakdown as it was an overwhelming sense of panic. I suddenly missed my wife. I was suddenly afraid of not seeing my kids every day. I was afraid of what they would think of me as they grew up. My thoat choked with the thought that my daughter might one day choose her stepfather over her own father to walk her down the isle. I suddenly felt alone even though I was with OW, and that I had ruined my life.

All of the sudden, the only thing I wanted to do was to be home. I missed my home and my family and didn't want to live if it wasn't with them.

I know exactly where I want to be now... and these thoughts about the OW feel like the whispers of a devil on my shoulder.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

You could find a therapist who specializes in addiction and in behavior therapy. If you get a psychiatrist you could also get sedatives, that would help you to control your wayward thoughts and your jealousy and rage. It would be one less thing you would need to worry about, while you are waiting for time to heal. You were involved in something that was exciting and risky. It's normal, even for people who work in exciting and risky jobs, which are legitimate excitement and risk, to need a period of cooling off and re-adjusting to a normal way of life. People who have some years of experience in going on and off these kind of 'highs' take their issues in hand...they establish a schedule, they immerse themselves in a hobby that requires attention to detail, they go for long walks, the become accountable by taking up some volunteer work or responsibility for someone's pet or house care while those people are vacationing, they take an adult ed class in a second or third language...it doesn't happen by magic. The bottom line is it's your brain and your body and your emotions, so you need to get serious about finding the right resources to help you deal with getting through your days and nights. The good news is that once you learn to do this for one specific instance/problem, any time it comes up, you just get out the game plan again, and with a few tweaks here and there, you're good for the next obsession/anger issue that comes into your life. And there will ALWAYS be a next issue, always. Right up until you have to deal with your own impending death. So it's better to get used to it right now. Some people call this 'growing up' as if they're lucky, it's a skill they learned from their parents as a teen...but for the rest of us, it's just a very slow process of maturation as a responsible adult...responsible to ourselves and to those around us. The world is a small place, there is not really anywhere to run and hide. We have to deal.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

FeedbackLoop said:


> Then one day I just broke. It wasn't so much a crying emotional breakdown as it was an overwhelming sense of panic. I suddenly missed my wife. I was suddenly afraid of not seeing my kids every day. I was afraid of what they would think of me as they grew up.


See, what I don't hear is - I can't believe how badly I hurt my wife, how much I love her and can't bear to think of living without her. 

Don't stay for the kids and keep your wife in the wings until another attractive woman comes along. It's cruel and a bad example for those kids.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> See, what I don't hear is - I can't believe how badly I hurt my wife, how much I love her and can't bear to think of living without her.
> 
> Don't stay for the kids and keep your wife in the wings until another attractive woman comes along. It's cruel and a bad example for those kids.


I'm not a very empathic person. I have a lot of asocial traits. I'm sort of disconnected from that sort of thing... especially if my actions caused it. Once I put someone into the "disconnected" box, they generally stay there even if outwardly, the relationship improves. Like I said, I'm in therapy and trying to address it... but its sort of "how do you make yourself feel something?"

Separate from the problem of ceasing to think about the OW, I have a problem feeling the same way about my wife as I once did. I'm not drawn to her, I don't crave her... I love her like family, but not like a lover. More like a good friend. My passion is gone and I haven't been able to get it back. I would really like it to come back.

My wife is a very attractive woman too... but still there's something wrong with me. That tingle of being in love and feeling like you can't wait to see them again when you're gone for a trip... is missing.

Can you just fall out of love with someone when they didn't do anything wrong and you never fight? Or is it just that I'm numb to the more subtle feelings because everything was so intense with the OW?

I feel like the saying is true. You can't go home again.

To top it all off, my insecurities have been raging away since I left the OW. I'm working out obsessively feeling like I need to look better. I'm already athletic and my working out annoys my wife... thinking I'm trying to look good for someone else. I obsess about what I wear now. I feel inadequate in bed. I cycle wildly between feeling worthless and undesireable to feeling like I'm awesome and everyone wants me. I'm critical of my posture; the way I walk; the way I say certain things. I've been trying to "fix" personality flaws. I'm even trying to get rid of this smirk I occassionally have when I'm being sly or telling a joke... something my wife loves but I find embarrassing or goofy. Its like I'm trying to fix everything I perceive to be a flaw in myself. Its maddening. I am truly losing my mind.

My affair was truly pandoras box.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

You can rekindle how you felt about your wife - it happens all the time. Start dating/pursuing her again. Spend time every day to just talk to her. Become intimate again. 

Your goal is to put her in the place you've put the OW. Make her the object of your desire/fantasies. Do the actions, the feelings will follow.


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## My_2nd_Rodeo (Nov 20, 2012)

You still need to detox from the A. 

Everything I read (including the "catfight" over you) was feeding your narcissism/esteem needs to the extreme. It might have been a really crappy time for you, but it was also the most exhilarating... true? 

Work it and give it time. Remember, your wife is a desirable woman, don't take for granted that she'll just put up with your games.

Also, do you think she's interested in what you have to say? Maybe she finds talking to you dull as well. Something to work out in MC. You should not try to relive the feeling of being single and dating - puppydog love is not realistic to expect all the time.


It's good your'e here trying. I would advise you to keep your guard up on all social networks (including this site), you are still very vulnerable to a EA or PA. 

Seriously, you might brush this off, but everything you've said tells me your ripe for another affair.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

I applaud you for being honest with your feelings. I'm sure it's not easy to say these things.

Take a listen on YouTube to 'Escape' (The Pina Colada Song) by Rupert Holmes. Sorry but your post reminds me of this song.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

My_2nd_Rodeo said:


> You still need to detox from the A.
> 
> Everything I read (including the "catfight" over you) was feeding your narcissism/esteem needs to the extreme. It might have been a really crappy time for you, but it was also the most exhilarating... true?


It was, but it was also exhausting. Living from crisis to crisis.



My_2nd_Rodeo said:


> Also, do you think she's interested in what you have to say? Maybe she finds talking to you dull as well.


Ha, I find myself more dull than she thinks I am. I've gotten stuck constantly analyzing myself and my actions and interests and as a result half of my conversations are about me. Even I recognize it as self-centered... so its gotta be bad. I feel like an insecure teenage girl. lol

I catch myself rambling on about myself, like psycho-analyzing myself, while we're lying in bed and I'll say something like "Ugh... I need to shut up" and she'll say she likes when I talk. Analyzing something is always interesting. What bores me is "summary of my ordinary day" conversation... which is something I don't even do. She does complain that I don't tell her about my day though. There's nothing noteworthy to tell. Its all mundane regular stuff.




My_2nd_Rodeo said:


> It's good your'e here trying. I would advise you to keep your guard up on all social networks (including this site), you are still very vulnerable to a EA or PA.
> 
> Seriously, you might brush this off, but everything you've said tells me your ripe for another affair.


I recognize that too.


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## gemjo (Aug 24, 2012)

Whilst I think you are doing the right thing now by seeking help here, I can't help but feel you maybe don't love your wife enough.

As BS it hurts me to read your post that you think about the OW in such a positive way and your wife in a negative way. 

How did your wife react when your A was disclosed?

How did she find out?

Why did the A end?

Sorry if you already answered these questions already.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It sounds like you panicked at the idea of losing your family, so you went back to your wife. But now you don't have passion for her. You don't have husband-wife love feelings.

I can't believe that your W wouldn't sense any of this & perhaps with time, she will have had her fill. Who knows, though? You could fall in love with her again. People fall in and out of love and then back in.

To do this, though, you need to force yourself to stop navel-gazing and agonizing. Your W and family deserve some outward focus from you. That's the grown-up man thing to do.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

gemjo said:


> How did your wife react when your A was disclosed?


I went into "don't give a sh.." mode and left. I figured I was as good as divorced and I just sort of shut it out.



gemjo said:


> How did she find out?


She starting digging into email, phone records, bank statements etc.



gemjo said:


> Why did the A end?


I missed my old comfortable life and hated thinking about my kids growing up without me.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> To do this, though, you need to force yourself to stop navel-gazing and agonizing. Your W and family deserve some outward focus from you. That's the grown-up man thing to do.


Great. How do you do that? I feel like I'm doing things and not getting any emotional intensity. Everything is comfortable... but for lack of a better word, bland.

I feel like an alcoholic stuck drinking O'Douls.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

There's no recipe for falling back in love with your W. Were you ever IN love with her? Why did you have your affair?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

FeedbackLoop said:


> Great. How do you do that? I feel like I'm doing things and not getting any emotional intensity. Everything is comfortable... but for lack of a better word, bland.
> 
> I feel like an alcoholic stuck drinking O'Douls.


The "well is poisoned" as you put it. 

You poisoned it. Face up to it and address it. 

If you really feel being with your wife instead of the OW is drinking O'douls, than let the poor lady go. 

I dropped the OW like a hot potato, when my wife found out. 

She is still divorcing me. But, I don't see the other woman or fantasize about her. She was just a sexual distraction. I never thought she was better than my wife. I just wanted to taste some variety. Stupid move on my part. Now my wife is gone.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Here is the truth. You only went back to your wife because the OW dumped you for another man. You probably went back to your wife hoping the OW would get jealous and come back to you. You made a sad mistake. Your wife deserves a man who will ignite her passion by being all over her 100% and not your 50%. You are giving 50% to your wife and expecting her to give back 150% to you (and you don't even deserve 1% of her) by comparing her to the OW daily and nightly - then you wonder why she sees you as uninteresting and have the nerve to blame her for it. Believe me, your wife KNOWS that you are secretly taking the OW with you and your wife everywhere you go and in everything you do. - That's why she won't initiate sex with you - she is just as bored. It is only a matter of time before a real man comes along and TAKES your wife away. Then, you will be thinking of your wife and taking her everywhere you go and in everything you do. Your wife is not your default choice. Divorce her and keep your fantasy OW memories or make a choice to be the man your wife needs. Otherwise, you are still committing adultery. Don't wait for a wake up call. I guarantee, if you left your wife for the OW, it would be only a matter of time before you were taking your wife around with you and her in your daily lives when the "fun" wears off. Don't wait for it to be too late. Get a decent hobby if you need so much fun. Grow up! That's the difference between a man and a boy.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

FeedbackLoop said:


> Great. How do you do that? I feel like I'm doing things and not getting any emotional intensity. Everything is comfortable... but for lack of a better word, bland.
> 
> I feel like an alcoholic stuck drinking O'Douls.


If the label of narcissist is correct for you, then you will have a hard time getting simple advice from people that will work for you. How does someone teach you to be emotionally gratified by giving love and making someone happy, rather than by how you feel because other people are giving to you? How does someone give you instructions on having the empathy that would help you feel some passion for your wife again?

Some practitioners of cognitive behavioral therapy might help with the thoughts in your head, but won't be able to give your wife the love she wants.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> There's no recipe for falling back in love with your W. Were you ever IN love with her? Why did you have your affair?


I felt dead. Emotionless. Unappreciated. Every day was the same lifeless thing. I could predict the next 20 years of my life.



remorseful strayer said:


> But, I don't see the other woman or fantasize about her. She was just a sexual distraction.


My primary motives weren't sexual. It started because someone kept showing me how crazy about me they were and it felt good. I felt largely ignored at home.



RightfulRiskTaker said:


> Here is the truth. You only went back to your wife because the OW dumped you for another man. You probably went back to your wife hoping the OW would get jealous and come back to you. You made a sad mistake. Your wife deserves a man who will ignite her passion by being all over her 100% and not your 50%. You are giving 50% to your wife and expecting her to give back 150% to you (and you don't even deserve 1% of her) by comparing her to the OW daily and nightly. You are secretly taking the OW with you and your wife everywhere you go and in everything you do. It is only a matter of time before a real man comes along and TAKES your wife away. Then, you will be thinking of your wife and taking her everywhere you go and in everything you do. Your wife is not your default choice. Divorce her and keep your fantasy OW memories or make a choice to be the man your wife needs. Otherwise, you are still committing adultery. Don't wait for a wake up call. I guarantee, if you left your wife for the OW, it would be only a matter of time before you were taking your wife around with you and her in your daily lives when the "fun" wears off. Don't wait for it to be too late. Get a decent hobby if you need so much fun. Grow up!


The truth is I could have the OW right now if I went to get her. She never dumped me. I dumped her to stay with my wife. She found another guy AFTER I left. Sure I was jealous. So jealous that I went back to her and she dumped him. After a few weeks, the feelings behind why I ended the affair in the first place came back and I ended it for good. Hell our last conversation ended with her saying "well, you know how to reach me if you ever change your mind".

So no, you don't know me or my situation. I'm where I want to be, not because I have no options. All I want is to feel the way I did about my wife when we first met... and not have the OW creeping in all the time.

I'm not here for your personal therapeutic release of bitterness. You're welcome, now GTFO of my thread.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

The two of you need to get in to counseling and both of you need to put efforts in to rekindling the relationship or it's just a matter of time until more cheating occurs (maybe her next time) or divorce.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> If the label of narcissist is correct for you, then you will have a hard time getting simple advice from people that will work for you. How does someone teach you to be emotionally gratified by giving love and making someone happy, rather than by how you feel because other people are giving to you? How does someone give you instructions on having the empathy that would help you feel some passion for your wife again?
> 
> Some practitioners of cognitive behavioral therapy might help with the thoughts in your head, but won't be able to give your wife the love she wants.


Therapy has turned out to be as useless as I expected it to be.

I guess I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing, activities with my wife, activities with the family... and hope the OW just goes away with time and my wife and I reconnect.

From the suggestions here, I'd say that I'm *doing* the right things... but the mind hasn't followed yet.

I most identify with the person who mentioned the post-affair "fog". I just thought it would be gone by now.

Thanks.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Yeah some therapists are not productive. Have you guys done things like 5 love languages, marriage busters, etc
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

FeedbackLoop said:


> I felt dead. Emotionless. Unappreciated. Every day was the same lifeless thing. I could predict the next 20 years of my life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BTW you might want to tell the whole story from the get go. Your reaction to reality is precisely my point. This is the type of confrontational therapy you need to direct your deep narcissistic rage to a therapist who isn't afraid to tell you the ugly truth about yourself. All you do here is try to justify your need to live in a fantasy world and expect a gold medal from your wife for your "sacrifice". Hint: Your wife won't die without you. The OW might.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Did you know that the people who need therapy the most are the ones who don't think it "works?"


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## BackOnTrack (Oct 25, 2011)

FeedbackLoop said:


> I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I need help.
> 
> I had an affair that lasted a couple months and ended about 6 months ago. My wife and I reconciled, and by all appearances our marriage is ok.
> 
> ...


Feedbackloop, I've gone through the same thing. Most of what you have written is dead on with my A. My dday was over a year and a half ago. My A lasted 3 years. The thoughts will be there for a long long time. As wrong as it is, these are memories that are part of your life now. No way to make them go away. The thoughts are often painful, but will never be close to the pain I put my wife through. 

For the first 6-8mo, these thoughts and feelings were almost constant and very intense. But as time has passed, the feelings fade and the once constant memories are pushed aside by the better memories that I make with my wife.

Like you, I blamed my wife for many things that "pushed" me towards the A. But the reality is that I was just as responsible for the deterioration of my M. I had a lot of resentment for years of rejection. What I never realized is that she held just as much resentment for my lack of meeting her needs as well which lead to the rejection. Overtime, we pulled away from each other. In other words, just as she did not meet my needs, I failed to realize that I had not met hers. This visious death spiral resulted in a lot of pain. 

The most helpful thing for us was going to MC for over a year. We were fotunate to have found an exception MC. That was the best money ever spent. We are both happier than we have ever been in over 20+ yr M. We have both learned so much about what it means to be a good spouse for each other.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

RightfulRiskTaker said:


> BTW you might want to tell the whole story from the get go. Your reaction to reality is precisely my point. This is the type of confrontational therapy you need to direct your deep narcissistic rage to a therapist who isn't afraid to tell you the ugly truth about yourself. All you do here is try to justify your need to live in a fantasy world and expect a gold medal from your wife for your "sacrifice". Hint: Your wife won't die without you. The OW might.


I've was in therapy, I know plenty of ugly truths about myself. What a joyful and productive experience, let me tell you. I have even less respect for the profession now than I had going in. Your description of "reality" is still a load of crap. Yeah, the OW got with another guy while I was back and forth wishy washy with my wife. I still got her back. She made it clear that she'd rather have me than him. I took it as a game to make me jealous and draw me back. She cheated on him multiple times with me, and each time she said we should get back together. So no, I didn't get dumped and go crawling back to my wife. I can have the OW right now if I wanted her. I don't.

I didn't come here to justify anything. I came here for ideas on how to stop having the OW creep into my thoughts, or when it might go away.

I'm not asking anything of my wife.

Didn't I already ask you to leave my thread? You're so off base its retarded. Sorry, but I'm not the sniveling guy who went crawling back to his wife crying because his mistress bwoke his poor wittle heart.

She's infected my thoughts, and I want her @ss out. Simple as that. Its the same as trying to forget someone after a breakup, so this seemed as good a place to ask as any. I didn't come here for sympathy or to be liked. I don't need either.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Did you know that the people who need therapy the most are the ones who don't think it "works?"


I went for several months. It went nowhere. Sure, I understand some new things about why I behave the way I do; I have a few new reasons to believe I'm a bad person; some metaphorical dots were connected. Awesome. I quit going when I realized that my sessions had become monotonous confessionals... "here's what we did this week."

I was told to read a self-esteem book that was full of fluff and filler. I read two books aimed at reconnecting; another about x days or weeks of romance or something... even my wife agreed it was just silly when I'd do what the book suggested.

Maybe I come from the school of "just suck it up", but I haven't found the mushy psychobable to be useful in anyway. Mostly I've just gotten new jokes, especially from the self-esteem book... wow. Yep, I feel a need to constantly prove my worth... the cloud over my inner core is thick... lol. I'm focused on externalities. Call it whatever you want, but I'm not about to start saying affirmations in the mirror.

Cue Stuart Smalley: "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog gone it, people like me"

Seriously?


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

Oh wait... I just remembered another of the dumb things from one therapy homework assignment or book exercise. The "milk" excercise.

First you think about milk, fully experiencing it in your mind... look, feel, taste, temperature, consistency... Then you say "milk" out loud as many times as you can in like a minute... so now the word sounds goofy and loses meaning.

Then you take a negative thought and boil it down to a single word. Then you say that world out loud just as you did milk until it just becomes a goofy meaningless sound.

This is therapy? Now I've taken to saying "milk, milk, milk, milk" to make fun of it when certain situations come up. I dropped a plate and it shattered a few weeks back... "milk milk milk milk milk". My wife was serious about the therapy thing but it still makes her laugh every time. This stuff is ridiculous.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You say it's the same as trying to forget someone after a breakup. For me, that was only hard if I didn't want the breakup. Otherwise, it wasn't an issue; I was ready to move on emotionally.

So, perhaps you have the problems of someone who's been dumped even though you weren't dumped; it was your decision to end it.

I would suggest reading the threads here of men who were in EA's (I know yours was physical) & who were essentially dragged out of them by their wives. Their heads were very much still with the OW even if they were committed to their families. Try Sigma1299 and Entropy3000 (I hope I'm not misremembering on Entropy..). It might help to read some of their discussions.


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## FeedbackLoop (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks alte.


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