# The I'm sorry of infidelity.



## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

He's so sorry....

She wants our marriage to work.....

He says he loves me and only me......

She cried and begged telling me it was an awful mistake.....

I'm up with a cold reading threads and I'm angered at the "I'm sorrys". I call bullsh!t.

Only sorry they were caught. How does anyone believe their WS is so sorry the instant they are confronted. How can they be?

If it were me, I would have no other choice than to be sorry unless this were an exit affair and I wanted out. Right?

These WS's are not getting second chances on their sorry stories but by the BS's willingness to forgive or fear of letting go.

It just bugs me when the sorrys start. It's crap in my opinion. 

No one would cheat if they were really sorry. 

Why does it take creating a devastated partner to realize you're sorry?


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Because if you cold do anything in the world without consequences for anyone at all, you dignity need to be sorry about anything.
It's the consequences that make people realize they did something wrong.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Yes, but we all know there are consequences before our actions. 

We might all be robbing banks if we knew there was to be no prison time. 

My point exactly. They are sorry they got caught, not sorry they hurt someone.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Rugs said:


> I'm angered at the "I'm sorrys". I call bullsh!t.
> 
> Only sorry they were caught. How does anyone believe their WS is so sorry the instant they are confronted. How can they be?
> 
> ...


When I was a teenager living at home with my parents, I did things I knew they would disapproved of, things I knew were wrong, not at all because I didn't love or respect them, but because I wanted to do them. I regretted doing these things even as I was doing them sometimes, I knew they were wrong as I was doing them, I knew my parents would be hurt and disappointed if they found out, yet I did them anyway basically because I wanted to. Later, when my parents found out, I was immediately sorry, I actually had been sorry before they found out and I never wanted them to find out.

Oh yeah, if I recall correctly, even when caught and I knew I was wrong, I still tried to justify what I did with ridiculous arguments and didn't immediately acknowledge what I had done was wrong or apologize for it.

I think very many times the "sorry" is bullspit, but I think you have to allow that it is not always the case.

I know my analogy is not the same thing as infidelity, but I do think that sometimes, even if in only a small number of cases, the cheater's "sorry" really is "sorry for what I did" and "sorry that I hurt you" and not just "sorry that I got caught."


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> When I was a teenager living at home with my parents, "


Yes, IMO, way different than, being a married adult.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Rugs, 

I think you may be equivocating on "I'm sorry" and actual repentance because some of the words used are the same. For example, in your story (if memory serves) your husband was a serial cheater and said he was "sorry" but then never quit his affairs. He was saying empty words in an attempt to keep things the way they were...saying and doing things on purpose in order to keep you off balance and under his thumb (so to speak). 

However, not everyone who says the words "I'm sorry" means "Hey I'd like to trick you to going back to the way things were." In my instance, first that wasn't my general character as a person: I actually am pretty honest and loyal, and I took a bad turn for the worst, got in over my head, and then was too ashamed to admit what I'd done. Second, I wasn't sorry because I got caught; I was in over my head and one day I saw the hurt on his face and said to myself, "Come what may I can NOT do that to another human being." I had sorrow for what I had done, I wanted to stop, I did not want to continue, and I wanted things to be different. So I changed. 

See, lots of people do say they are sorry. Lots of times it's because they are facing the consequences and the consequences hurt. But sometimes...on the occasion... it's because they have sorrow for what they've done, they want to stop, they actually DO stop, and they want to be different. They have true repentance.

This is why I say when someone says "I'm sorry" to you, don't immediately assume they mean it. Hold off judgment and let their actions show their true intention. If they ACT different, do the work on themselves, eat some of the crow, take responsibility, get to the counseling--then they mean it. They are regretful--they have repented. If they act exactly the same, blame you and do no work on changing themselves, are too proud to take responsibility, and don't do the work in counseling--then they are just blowing smoke up your skirt.

Yeah.. I agree it's pretty rare, but it's not inconceivable.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

It's reading through the threads tonight seeing all the initial "I'm Sorry" speeches that by the end of the thread they were only sorry they were caught.

This is not about my situation or any situation in particular, it's generally what transpires on the threads here. More times then not, the words are hollow. 

Just a head-cold rant is all.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Rugs said:


> It's reading through the threads tonight seeing all the initial "I'm Sorry" speeches that by the end of the thread they were only sorry they were caught.
> 
> This is not about my situation or any situation in particular, it's generally what transpires on the threads here. More times then not, the words are hollow.
> 
> Just a head-cold rant is all.


I agree with you. It's a catch all phrase that means very little, because they knew what the consequences would be but still did it, so in actuality they are not sorry for what they did.

It's like if burning your hand gave you pleasure, you know it will hurt, you know the consequences, so you know what will happen. When you're near a fire, you can avoid the flame but you stick your hand in there anyway because you want the pleasure. Only regret is the end result, a burned hand. If cheaters knew they had a get out of jail free card and could get away with it without hurt or their partners finding out, they would do it.

Oh another one I enjoy is.. he's/she's showing "genuine remorse", another catch all.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

For me personally this is an issue that is central to the way my very stbxw and I either move on positively or we never move on till the end of our lives

She was, still is in my mind, a serial cheat and I also got the 'sorry's'

I got the desperate exploded "sorry's" of the instant caught rabbit in the headlights but reality was as you say she simply 'got caught'

Then I got the _moments_ of inner remorse as she hit rock bottom and the gravity seeped in BUT_ just moments_. That was in between what I now call the 'main sorry' of them all 

The "Yes okay, I''m SORRY(slightly annoyed) .. BUT , but you......... and then you" ..etc etc 

And that's the sorry I've always got since then for years during the marriage and even more nailed on with aggression since the DD (20 months ago)

This is the 'sorry' that once the lid is off the affair, is the one we all get 

Often goes like this too "I AM sorry, of course I am (weeping).............I can't believe I've done what I have (weeping drowning in tears).............*but*"

This is the 'sorry' that has in, say the last 9 months or so on here, on TAM has led to the proliferation by wayward spouses that somehow the betrayed spouse deep in the marriage history (it having been 'ammended' (history re written), is the responsible one ofr their infidelity -if they look they find that well, well, well - lo and behold it's the betrayed spouse that was the one that caused it all along 

"sorry" ......... (I'm on my knees owning every single decision connected to the adultery/s I can only look at myself) is a starting point for all parties to heal whether divorce or reconciliation

"sorry......BUT" (I'm on my knees but YOU need to own every aspect of why I dismantled you, our children's and other families lives) is merely a starting point to end the whole thing as slowly and painfully as possible as the blameshifting gaslighting trickle truthing rips another betrayed spouse into slices - slowly with deliberation 

From what I see on here there's little middle ground 

In my life now, even 20 months since we separated having not got any real "sorry" and "I own it" with unconditional remorse, I despise her and maintain an unhealthy but controllable bitterness and anger 

I have expressed that even now with counseling unless I see real remorse for what she's done I'll never feel anything other than contempt and zero respect for her and because we have kids it's hard to maintain any real amicability

We had a first 'chat' two weeks ago without name calling and anger in 20 months. It was going 'well' until she broke down said she was "sorry" and I waited for the "but". Within a minute it had duly arrived !!
I said "this is it, this is why I can't respect you, even now there is a justification a minimization of what you have done to us all when you say "but" and I will now leave because from now I will get pissy and angry with you"

I said I don't feel right, it's unhealthy and is as she knows me not the 'real' me and if she wants to have a old friendlier me to deal with she needs to drop the "but" from any apologies and 'own' what she has been doing.

She's agreed to go to counseling, together, which is for me / for us/ a major step forward. Whether she will and get the courage to unload her inner truths about the why and how's of her actions is well - any one's guess really, as she tends to run when confronting her inner demons, but as I don't want this inner hatred for her, the mother of my children, I hope she can. 

That's what the real meaning, the impact, of "sorry" has had is having on my life.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Rugs said:


> Yes, IMO, way different than, being a married adult.


I had a friend in his 20s who was an addict and put his parents through quite a bit of pain, he said he was sorry and I know he actually was. Again, not quite the same as infidelity, but sometimes I'm sorry really does mean I'm sorry.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Headspin said:


> We had a first 'chat' two weeks ago without name calling and anger in 20 months. It was going 'well' until she broke down said she was "sorry" and I waited for the "but". Within a minute it had duly arrived !!


It seems that most apologies from cheaters are not sincere, I would agree; you have to judge it in context of their other words and actions. It is possible to be truly sorry for having cheated and having hurt their spouse, even if that situation is relatively rare.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Nice thread.. I have another just like this in my mind:

"Though of course I'm not blameless too."

"I wasn't perfect either.."

"I admit that I fvcked up at some point."

"I must have pushed my spouse away." 

You get the picture.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Headspin said:


> For me personally this is an issue that is central to the way my very stbxw and I either move on positively or we never move on till the end of our lives
> 
> She was, still is in my mind, a serial cheat and I also got the 'sorry's'
> 
> ...


There is always some justification on their part for pursuing the affair. You can eat a whole bunch of chocolate cake, enjoy the hell out of it but "regret" the inevitable weight gain..but you're not really sorry you ate it.

People want "real remorse" but what they get is damage limitation, and since ego wrapped in the specter of selfishness is involved, you might get the "sorry-I feel guilty" but never the "sorry-for what I've done to you" because, she wasn't really sorry she did it. Only the chocolate cake weight gain guilt.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Rugs,

I hope you have a better day today. I like Will Kane's analogy. I never got a sorry one time. I don't know how that feels. I also don't do the things as a grown adult for me to be sorry for. I am a grown adult. 

Some of boys become adult males and some of us become men. I am teaching my boys to become men. I hope your favorite football team wins today.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Rugs said:


> He's so sorry....
> 
> She wants our marriage to work.....
> 
> ...


For the ones who are really sorry for what they did (and they are out there, though sometimes it takes them years to reach this point), it takes a devastated partner because up to the point of witnessing and understanding the devastation they have managed to convince themselves that they are not doing anything wrong or that they are somehow justified in what they are doing.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

"I never meant to hurt you." I got that, or something like it.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Actually to 'balance' the books I have to say a genuine "sorry" imparting total and unconditional remorse although extremely rare is a genuinely wonderful thing to see

You can so clearly see it when these people mean it from the top to their toes - 'tears' of course was was one 

That thread is so illuminating in what 99% pf waywards *do not do* as this single woman showed the 'wayward fraternity' how it had to be done and of course, ironically, even tragically imo, she did not get the chance that some of the former waywards on here have got - the shot at a genuine reconciliation 

You look through tears' thread, there's no 'hints' at any of the marital problems having 'put her in a place' where she could in any way justify her ONS that came back to obliterate her life. You'll not find in your head as you read that thread 'mmm.., maybe she just trying to justify that there, which in every other attempt I see by a former wayward. I get that feeling that they will, in any way they can put a small link to the marital snapshot way back to a 'bad time' to give them their 'out' 

I think the problem for the even genuinely ws who is trying to put some other spin on their choices and actions is that they are dealing with a community on here who have bean dealt every possible nuance concerning infidelity, deceit, and treachery there is, so we know where they are coming from, where and when they are trying to find some little rock to cover their culpability

I can't be accurate as I have not considered it to be honest, but I bet in my 20 months on here I can count the number of times I have looked at a waywards posting over time and conclude this person has genuine remorse and is clearly willing to do whatever is necessary to get this back to repair to begin while honest and new again - on one hand!!!

If you consider how many posts there would be in the last 20 months that's not many is it? 

And it's often in the opening two posts and the way they are using the "sorry"! remorse aspect that the colors are nailed to the mast from the start


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

True remorse, if it comes, will come months or years after the act. Before a person does anything, good or bad, they have justified it to themselves. Only after they've had ample opportunity to re-think their justification, will they regret their actions.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

My ex cheated and left, and I don't ever see her being repentant about it. She won't even admit to me or herself it was "adultery" despite being forthcoming about some the facts, and even swearing an affidavit in order to expedite the divorce process.

All I ever got was a "I'm sorry you had to find out that way" so she knows she did something inappropriate, I just don't think she would ever bother to find out what exactly. I still don't know what exactly the apology was for, but it certainly wasn't for making any mistakes, such as breaking her vows, adultery, ripping apart our family, devastating me by leaving the marriage or seeking out extra-marital sex etc.

I think it was basically a "oops I should have hidden my tracks a bit better" statement.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

I am sorry that I don't believe a WS is ever sorry for cheating. I am also sorry that I think most reconciliation attempts come at the expense of lifelong agony for the BS and will fail sooner or later.

But that's what I see evryday. Truth hurts.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Wow. So a WS NEVER means the apology? I apologize to my husband on a regular basis AND try to show my remorse with actions. Does that mean I don't get frustrated or mess up? No. But it does mean that I am committed to making our family work. 

To dismiss ANY apology ANY WS makes at ANY point in time AND to write it off as "I'm sorry I got caught" (which I DIDN'T; I confessed) is shortsighted and myopic.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Wow. So a WS NEVER means the apology? I apologize to my husband on a regular basis AND try to show my remorse with actions. Does that mean I don't get frustrated or mess up? No. But it does mean that I am committed to making our family work.
> 
> To dismiss ANY apology ANY WS makes at ANY point in time AND to write it off as "I'm sorry I got caught" (which I DIDN'T; I confessed) is shortsighted and myopic.


I was talking about what I have seen so far in real life. Your remorse may be genuine and your R attempts might be super successful. But I don't know you. So I cannot comment on that. 

I think I made it pretty clear in my post that my comment is based on anecdotal evidence.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

For me, the problem with those words is really that they are so pale and puny compared to what has been done. Even if the 'sorry' is completely heartfelt, as with tears, the words don't fix anything. They are just a very small first step toward something - if they are real, that something could be a reconciliation; if they are not really genuinely felt, they are just empty words on the way to a permanent rift.

When I read the horrible expressions of the pain of betrayal here, I can't help but feel that the initial "I'm sorry" is like trying to put a band-aid on a cancerous tumor. It's just not really up to the task.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

life101 said:


> I was talking about what I have seen so far in real life. Your remorse may be genuine and your R attempts might be super successful. But I don't know you. So I cannot comment on that.
> 
> I think I made it pretty clear in my post that my comment is based on anecdotal evidence.


So you're only speaking for your own situation? That was not clear in your post when you said "most reconciliation attempts come at the expense of lifelong agony for the BS and will fail sooner or later."

Makes it sound like you're speaking for most attempts across the board and not YOUR OWN.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> So you're only speaking for your own situation? That was not clear in your post when you said "most reconciliation attempts come at the expense of lifelong agony for the BS and will fail sooner or later."
> 
> Makes it sound like you're speaking for most attempts across the board and not YOUR OWN.


Nope, not only from my situation. I was speaking from what I have seen in the circles of my family, friends, friends of friends, and acquaintances. I made it clearer below.



life101 said:


> I am sorry that I don't believe a WS is ever sorry for cheating. I am also sorry that I think most reconciliation attempts come at the expense of lifelong agony for the BS and will fail sooner or later.
> 
> *But that's what I see evryday.* Truth hurts.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

life101 said:


> I am sorry that I don't believe a WS is ever sorry for cheating. I am also sorry that I think most reconciliation attempts come at the expense of lifelong agony for the BS and will fail sooner or later.
> 
> But that's what I see evryday. Truth hurts.


I was really sorry. I didn't have to confess, but I did.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Re: The I'm sorry of infidelity.*



alte Dame said:


> For me, the problem with those words is really that they are so pale and puny compared to what has been done. Even if the 'sorry' is completely heartfelt, as with tears, the words don't fix anything. They are just a very small first step toward something - if they are real, that something could be a reconciliation; if they are not really genuinely felt, they are just empty words on the way to a permanent rift.
> 
> When I read the horrible expressions of the pain of betrayal here, I can't help but feel that the initial "I'm sorry" is like trying to put a band-aid on a cancerous tumor. It's just not really up to the task.


I think an apology can be genuine and even very meaningful, but it requires deep insight and reflection before hand to understand what actions a WS is repentant of.

The apology I got from my WS wasn't enough. If she had said "sorry for stepping out of the marriage and causing you so much unfathomable pain and suffering" it still wouldn't have been enough. It would have taken her to see it in the bigger picture, to realize that it was the same unfaithfulness that led to the affair that was leading to a significant portion of her own dissatisfaction with the marriage. The apology I wanted to hear was for all the choices she made that marginalized the value of our marriage and ultimately made cheating justifiable in her mind. I didn't want an apology for the straw, I wanted an acknowledgment that she shared greatly in breaking the camel's back and I wanted a sign of commitment to heal it.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I was really sorry. I didn't have to confess, but I did.


I know you did Matt. You are one of the very few former WS I actually believe to be reformed, even though I never met you. I wish there were more like you.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Wow. *So a WS NEVER means the apology?* I apologize to my husband on a regular basis AND try to show my remorse with actions. Does that mean I don't get frustrated or mess up? No. But it does mean that I am committed to making our family work.
> 
> To dismiss ANY apology ANY WS makes at ANY point in time AND to write it off as "I'm sorry I got caught" (which I DIDN'T; I confessed) is shortsighted and myopic.


Hardly ever - correct 

If you spent two years on here and watched it all unfold you'd realize that

In respect of you personally sadly you have to accept you get tarnished with the same brush.

You may be in that rare percentage that does not 'do' the script and thank god there are some that break the mould but I think you have accept you ARE a rarity.

But also note this - if in future posts, I amongst others start to notice you saying "well, it takes two to fk up the marriage" and "the responsibility is on both" "is it any wonder" etc etc blah blah have a guess what that means ?

You would have just joined the legion of blameshifters and subtle justifiers that place blame anywhere but themselves

From what I hear and what you say I don't think we'll hear that bsh!t from you Annie BUT ....... you're in a small club

A small club that just own it, unconditionally, who accept THEY made that choice without any help whatsoever from anybody else

From which of course is the only place any genuine reconciliation can even think of starting


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Lon said:


> I think an apology can be genuine and even very meaningful, but it requires deep insight and reflection before hand to understand what actions a WS is repentant of.
> 
> The apology I got from my WS wasn't enough. If she had said "sorry for stepping out of the marriage and causing you so much unfathomable pain and suffering" it still wouldn't have been enough. It would have taken her to see it in the bigger picture, to realize that it was the same unfaithfulness that led to the affair that was leading to a significant portion of her own dissatisfaction with the marriage. The apology I wanted to hear was for all the choices she made that marginalized the value of our marriage and ultimately made cheating justifiable in her mind. I didn't want an apology for the straw, I wanted an acknowledgment that she shared greatly in breaking the camel's back and I wanted a sign of commitment to heal it.


See, some people are so much better at this 

Beautifully put Lon :smthumbup:

:iagree:


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Headspin said:


> Hardly ever - correct
> 
> If you spent two years on here and watched it all unfold you'd realize that
> 
> ...


First, I don't have to be tarnished with any brush. I am my own person, walking my own road. Unlike many here, I only speak for myself and my marriage. 

If I posted "ALL BS are like my husband. They are aloof and cold. They are wrapped up in their own lives and only respond to brinksmanship and crises." That wouldn't be true. It certainly was true for my husband. I don't think it's true for most BS though. I'd never go around spouting that nonsense. 

So why is ok to say "no WS means their apologies. All WS are liars and narcissists and sociopaths. They are all broken." Why is that ok?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*The only true "sorry" in the whole infidelity process is the WS's "Sorry that they got found out!"*


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

Well, considering that they want to stay with you, it's not like they're not going to at least say the words "I'm sorry". Imagine if they said "I'm not sorry, but I want to stay with you"? That wouldn't turn out too well for them (read: they would have no chance of being forgiven).

You're right. "I'm sorry" are words that can mean different things, and not necessarily what you want them to mean. You would have to ask specifically why they are sorry, and, more importantly, watch their actions later to see if they match.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Lon said:


> My ex cheated and left, and I don't ever see her being repentant about it. She won't even admit to me or herself it was "adultery" despite being forthcoming about some the facts, and even swearing an affidavit in order to expedite the divorce process.


Back to my standard observation. Women generally don't cheat until their romantic interest has dropped. When that happens it seldom returns and many are ready to simply move on. Your wife is an example. The only thing she will admit to is what she feels and that is she is where she wants to be. Why would she say she's sorry when she's not.
Although you took the bigger hit, both of you are better off in the long run.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> So why is ok to say "no WS means their apologies. All WS are liars and narcissists and sociopaths. They are all broken." Why is that ok?


Annie, I am not piling on but please answer the following:

If you were a WS, did you tell your husband about your affair before hand or did you do it behind his back? If you did it behind his back, that kind of makes you a liar.

If the prevailing norm here is that it is NOT ok to have an affair, and I think that is still the prevailing norm here, then if you did have an affair, then your defining feature would be that you did violate social norms, which does make you a sociopath.

If you did have an affair to really stroke your own ego at the expense of everyone around you including your husband with whom you made vows, that is a definition of narcissism. 

In a relationship both spouses probably have had ample opportunity to cheat and make themselves happy. The ones who although have had the opportunity, yet abstain can be seen as moral (at least in that regard) the ones who did not abstain may be seen as broken.

I am failing to see what leg to stand on you think you have here.

OP was lashing out because the 'I'm sorry' just doesn't cut it sometimes. Like Alte Dame said, it's a tiny band aid on a gaping wound.

OP was lashing out about her husband. To me you seem like you are lashing out because you want to fix what you did but the I'm sorry just seems so inadequate to many BS.

When a BS asks why you did it, they don't mean why did you do it when they know the answer. It is just a cry out in pain. You might really get sick of hearing it and you might be sorry, but if you were really truly sorry, you would understand they aren't attacking you, they are crying out in pain and by you being defensive, it just shows that you are more worried about how you feel by creating someone's pain, than the pain the other person is really in. Stop thinking about yourself. When you put the other person's feeling above your own for once, that is the sign of a person who is truly remorseful. Let's face it. A WS put themselves above everyone else for the duration. If they are remorseful, then they will see the world does not revolve around them.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Moving ahead, I see your points and to some extent agree with your logic, however I think you are stretching that logic a little too far when attaching certain labels too all cheaters, and in this case to Annie.

the norm is that it is generally not tolerated to have an affair, but that doesn't make affairs necessarily abnormal, they are in fact quite common. Tolerance of, and the act of, are two different things and I don't believe it is entirely sociopathy that causes infidelity.

Also, it is not only narcisists that cheat, people with all kinds of personalities find themselves in affairs.

I'm just suggesting that in this case I don't think attaching labels helps this discussion in any way.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> First, I don't have to be tarnished with any brush. I am my own person, walking my own road. Unlike many here, I only speak for myself and my marriage.
> 
> If I posted "ALL BS are like my husband. They are aloof and cold. They are wrapped up in their own lives and only respond to brinksmanship and crises." That wouldn't be true. It certainly was true for my husband. I don't think it's true for most BS though. I'd never go around spouting that nonsense.
> 
> So why is ok to say "no WS means their apologies. All WS are liars and narcissists and sociopaths. They are all broken." *Why is that ok?*


Because most of them in varying degrees - are.

People being "tarnished" with any brush is not a choice. You may not deserve it but socially you will be grouped with the vast majority.

Listen I'm not arguing with you - respect. You seem to be one of the few but it's worth you understanding how this actually works in the general scheme of things. You seem to be one of the few - one of the very few


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## daibai (Sep 10, 2013)

Often goes like this too "I AM sorry, of course I am (weeping).............I can't believe I've done what I have (weeping drowning in tears).............but"

This is the 'sorry' that has in, say the last 9 months or so on here, on TAM has led to the proliferation by wayward spouses that somehow the betrayed spouse deep in the marriage history (it having been 'ammended' (history re written), is the responsible one ofr their infidelity -if they look they find that well, well, well - lo and behold it's the betrayed spouse that was the one that caused it all along 

"sorry" ......... (I'm on my knees owning every single decision connected to the adultery/s I can only look at myself) is a starting point for all parties to heal whether divorce or reconciliation

"sorry......BUT" (I'm on my knees but YOU need to own every aspect of why I dismantled you, our children's and other families lives) is merely a starting point to end the whole thing as slowly and painfully as possible as the blameshifting gaslighting trickle truthing rips another betrayed spouse into slices - slowly with deliberation 
--------

THis is what I am experiencing now. The trickle truths which went on for 4 months. I still don't know if I have the full truth from my BS about what happened. Definitely a EA not sure of a PA. He denies they had sex up until this moment, but I don't believe him. He has made certain changes, such as MC, quitting the gym where she works and NC with the other woman. This is all new so I am not convinced.

I'm hoping that the remorse will come later, our MC has said that it'll take time. I'm being patient, but still suffering.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

The words of apology are the easy part. Words don't mean a ton.

If you get caught when you weren't expecting to your apology may be different from someone who chooses to come clean.

Either way if you are the BS your world has now changed forever. No matter what. Your marriage has changed. Some will say for the better, they've never been stronger. Some are angry hurt and suffering for the selfish choice their spouse made.

So the words "I'm Sorry" are the start of a process. They need to be followed up with actions that back that up. 

I'm not even close to thinking "I forgive you" much less uttering it. My trust must be earned. And if you are dumb enough to gamble with it...you better be prepared to lose.


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## spidersab*ch (Nov 26, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> When a BS asks why you did it, they don't mean why did you do it when they know the answer. It is just a cry out in pain. You might really get sick of hearing it and you might be sorry, but if you were really truly sorry, you would understand they aren't attacking you, they are crying out in pain and by you being defensive, it just shows that you are more worried about how you feel by creating someone's pain, than the pain the other person is really in. Stop thinking about yourself. When you put the other person's feeling above your own for once, that is the sign of a person who is truly remorseful. Let's face it. A WS put themselves above everyone else for the duration. If they are remorseful, then they will see the world does not revolve around them.


This is an important point. I think many here are intimately familiar with it, but it is seldom stated. I sure as hell never imagined I would be a part of an infidelity support group and would never have wanted to be. I may have written something about this in a thread here or there in the past. My wife hates that I am on this site. And resented me for standing as a reminder of the pain she had caused. If I showed my hurt, it made her angry. Still does, but as many of you know, the edge wears away in time and so it is less on display


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Lon said:


> Moving ahead, I see your points and to some extent agree with your logic, however I think you are stretching that logic a little too far when attaching certain labels too all cheaters, and in this case to Annie.
> 
> the norm is that it is generally not tolerated to have an affair, but that doesn't make affairs necessarily abnormal, they are in fact quite common. Tolerance of, and the act of, are two different things and I don't believe it is entirely sociopathy that causes infidelity.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree at all. Labels are just adjectives. I don't think anyone said Annie, you are this and that... I believe a blanket statement was made about cheaters and I know that everyone is different. I however will not preface my sentences with 97% or 93.6% of cheaters etc...

I don't believe Annie was a narcissist by the medical definition at all. I do believe that cheaters in the fog really enter a heightened state of selfishness that really tends to be quite narcissistic. I do not care to make that distinction at all.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> So you're only speaking for your own situation? That was not clear in your post when you said "most reconciliation attempts come at the expense of lifelong agony for the BS and will fail sooner or later."
> 
> Makes it sound like you're speaking for most attempts across the board and not YOUR OWN.


Hi Annie and I am glad you posted. I have followed your posts but from a BS point of view I do not think waywards are ever sorry. Perhaps you can shed some light on it for me. 

For me, a sorry means I did something I would not normally do and/or my judgment was clouded that I did not see what I was doing. 

But the problem with being `sorry` for affairs is there were so many choices to turn it around along the path and then the act itself which if it does not instill guilt on some level then a person just does not care. I mean, when the act itself is going on (without getting graphic) where were her thoughts about me? If she did not think about me - then frankly she is not sorry. And if she did have thoughts of me and still carried on - then again she is not sorry. She may be remorseful. She may be ashamed of herself. But sorry? I do not think so. 
You see all the feelings are still feelings about her......now if she changed as a person but frankly I have been around this world long enough to believe that people do not ultimately change they are who they are. They can change their behaviours but who they are - no. 
Now if the partner wants a new marriage with someone who will cheat that is different.

One thing I would like is an apology though from my former spouse - just to acknowledge the hurt she brought to my table. But to her credit (in a weird way) she never apologized and I think because she recognized how shallow the words would ring and that given the circumstances she would do it again. So in a weird way, the spouses who do not apologize actually are being more honest. Follow my rant...


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Hi Annie and I am glad you posted. I have followed your posts but from a BS point of view I do not think waywards are ever sorry. Perhaps you can shed some light on it for me.
> 
> For me, a sorry means I did something I would not normally do and/or my judgment was clouded that I did not see what I was doing.
> 
> ...


I can't answer for her. We are in very different positions. I am still with my husband. In fact, we are expecting another child. I think I can come from a place of deep remorse and regret that the EA happened. I'm committed to making my family work. 

In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter if every BS on the forum doesn't believe any WS is remorseful, regretful, or sorry. It just matters if MY husband believes me and allows me to back up my words with actions. 

It seems those who are most strenuous is these assertions are actually not healing. They have never had amends made to them and they are still (rightfully) angry. The problem is when the anger spills onto random strangers who ARE making amends to their BS, who ARE committed to having high boundaries and standards to live by. I am determined to be the wife and mother my family deserves.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Headspin said:


> For me personally this is an issue that is central to the way my very stbxw and I either move on positively or we never move on till the end of our lives
> 
> She was, still is in my mind, a serial cheat and I also got the 'sorry's'
> 
> ...


I don't think a burning hate that goes on to long is healthy. But if it settlements an abiding contempt, or disdain, or permanent state of minimized respect for her I don't see what's wrong with that - assuming that divorce is an option you can accept. The fact that she is the mother of your kids shouldn't determine how you feel about her......it should be her behavior and character.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> I can't answer for her. We are in very different positions. I am still with my husband. In fact, we are expecting another child. I think I can come from a place of deep remorse and regret that the EA happened. I'm committed to making my family work.
> 
> In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter if every BS on the forum doesn't believe any WS is remorseful, regretful, or sorry. It just matters if MY husband believes me and allows me to back up my words with actions.
> 
> It seems those who are most strenuous is these assertions are actually not healing. They have never had amends made to them and they are still (rightfully) angry. The problem is when the anger spills onto random strangers who ARE making amends to their BS, who ARE committed to having high boundaries and standards to live by. I am determined to be the wife and mother my family deserves.


Good for you Annie! For me an emotional affair is different than physical affair.......glad you did not venture over the PA line....good luck in your marriage -- always rooting for marriage!


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> I can't answer for her. We are in very different positions. I am still with my husband. In fact, we are expecting another child. I think I can come from a place of deep remorse and regret that the EA happened. I'm committed to making my family work.
> 
> In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter if every BS on the forum doesn't believe any WS is remorseful, regretful, or sorry. It just matters if MY husband believes me and allows me to back up my words with actions.
> 
> It seems those who are most strenuous is these assertions are actually not healing. They have never had amends made to them and they are still (rightfully) angry. The problem is when the anger spills onto random strangers who ARE making amends to their BS, who ARE committed to having high boundaries and standards to live by. I am determined to be the wife and mother my family deserves.


Fair play Annie you're fighting YOUR corner making it work and clearly doing your level best to atone for your actions and I have respect for that

Good luck with the baby and all


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I don't think a burning hate that goes on to long is healthy. But if it settlements an abiding contempt, or disdain, or permanent state of minimized respect for her I don't see what's wrong with that - assuming that divorce is an option you can accept. The fact that she is the mother of your kids shouldn't determine how you feel about her......it should be her behavior and character.


I agree the feeling inside of me is ultimately not healthy hence why I / we are taking steps to talk with a third party in the hope for me anyway, that she can recognize the magnitude of her actions and own them with no conditions with no minimizing and no justification

Divorce is the only option and I do of course accept that.

As for the mother of my kids trouble is she is and it does give her a grace card.

We met earlier this evening for a quick chat about it and I commented "just think but for the kids we'd never have to see each other ever again" She got upset

Then commented she was having great trouble recently "knowing that we are very close to the full 'finality' of it all" 

I uttered something about it being her choices etc etc etc 
....which she now accepts


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Headspin,
What does she want from you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Headspin,
> What does she want from you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well if I'm honest, I'm not really sure. We are 20 months separated, almost divorced, very very acrimoniously. It's now coming to a conclusion in the way I thought was correct.

Agreements have been finally kept to by her and I have been looking for ways to go forward without my feeling so bitter and hateful for all the sh!t she has put us all through.

I have made herculean efforts to treat her better publicly school functions handovers etc etc and we are definitely getting along better which is great for 

a/the kids and 

b/ (a bit selfishly) for me as well

She sees this as a chance to be 'friends' but I now realize I still carry a huge amount of bitterness still because she has still not given me what I need to feel better deep down true unconditional remorse the "sorry" - with no "buts". Unless I get that I can never have respect for her. 

I accept all these time elements are 'stages' to the next step and I feel we are nearing the end of the process. She has agreed to counseling with me to hopefully put ME in a better place to deal with her in the future.

BUT one thing she said last night really stumped me "recently I have had a lot of trouble dealing with the sheer finality of it all now we are at this point" 

I said "What "?! - "This is it - this is what you have wanted and this for years is the only place it was ever going to end up, considering what you have been doing and now you are having 'problems with it !?" 

Her - "I didn't think I'd feel this"

(Maybe I'm thread jacking here and should reopen up my first original thread ....mmm?)


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

> It just bugs me when the sorrys start. It's crap in my opinion.
> 
> No one would cheat if they were really sorry.
> 
> Why does it take creating a devastated partner to realize you're sorry?


Honey, did you take out the trash? - Sorry, I forgot!

Honey, did you forget to buy milk again? - Sorry, I didn't realize we are out!

Since when sorry is a sign of remorse? It's almost a transitive word, to be place before an excuse. 

True "sorry" is not communicated by words, but by actions. You can say all the sorrys but unless the behavior changes, it's just an empty word. On the other hand, I don't need to hear a single utterance of sorry, if the WW's action shows true remorse.


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## birmingham (Dec 4, 2013)

thank you for this thread, and this website! 
This topic of expressing "I'm sorry" has been on my mind as are many other aspects of infidelity. I'm in the first couple of weeks of discovery of my husband's PA. He is from another country and English is not his first language. So when he was caught/I discovered the affair, he didn't say "I'm sorry" as much as he said "I'm ashamed." He's not one to apologize effusively, so I didn't anticipate a lot of verbiage in that direction. 

I think I read somewhere that the spouse not saying they were sorry was actually more honest than many effusive "sorrys". especially in light of the fact that they regretted being caught more than the A itself. 

Lately, my husband hasn't been speaking about the A, but he has been showing his actions of listening (reluctantly), answering questions when I ask, and taking care of me as I've been ill. I still don't know what I'll do with him. I'm starting Ind. Therapy next week.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Only the person making the apology knows how real it is. Only the person receiving the apology knows if it's enough. 

I always believed my ex-husband was just sorry he got caught. Until I reached the point that I told him I was getting a divorce. Then I believe he might have been actually sorry because he definitely didn't want a divorce. But by then it was far too late. I was out.


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## alibaba70 (Nov 19, 2013)

As for me, i've decided long ago to live my life without regret.

Prior to have EA/PA , i've gone through every bits of the consequences many times over in my head. Every single "what if..." Had been considered over. And i personally feels that people would not cheat on someone they cant live without.

Never ger caught for a year, but finally admit to W and ask for divorce.
During the affair even if i were get caught , i would not said "i'm sorry". For i wouldnt expect to be forgiven as well, 
Hell i wouldnt forgive, thats for sure.

Just my worthless 2 penny


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