# this just happened



## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I'm so very tired of this crap.
Hubby came home and said he was late because he stopped at the "Expo." this is the place where he met OW2 and that she helps put together. He saw my friend there, said hi, did a ribbon cutting and left.

I said, but.... why did you even go there? You know she would probably be there? He said he didn't see anyone and he did the ribbon cutting and left. 

I said but you know how triggery that is for me. You haven't gone to that in three years. He said but there there was a ribbon cutting and there are certain things I have to do for my job. (You can imagine how THAT made me feel.) He said he went in, made an appearance and left. I said ok, why didn't we talk about this BEFORE you went. I said If I went to a conference where I met OM that I knew he put together and told you after the fact, wouldn't you be pissed. He said yes, he would have been pissed.

Then, we went on about how he isn't doing all the business events he's supposed to and how some are for just the bankers and not the spouses and is he supposed to tell me everything? I said I don't care where you go except 1) if there is alcohol in mixed company. 2) if either OW has known to be at an event. THen we should TALK about it before hand. 

I'm freaking livid. The begging for forgiveness (which he never really did) instead of asking for permission (could we just have a talk about it?). 
FML. 
Big discussion, which he would call a fight, everything from the time a two years ago I asked him why he was checking out the girl in yoga - that's what he remembers - not the 100 times we've been since then where we've had a good tie. 

I feel.. manipulated. pissed. told him I'm tired of doing all the work in the marriage. He said don't you think it's sad that you can never go to a hotel with your girlfriends or stay overnight at a conference? I said no. That is NO SKIN off my back. He said it was sad that I couldn't go. ... trying to make some point I guess. Totally lost on the fact that I didn't have an affair at a hotel, I was freaking raped. 

I don't know what to do. Royally pissed. How does someone THINK THAT GOING TO THE EXPO WOULD BE OK?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your husband has the sensitivity of a clod of earth.

Also... did he have to go to the Expo? Could he have asked someone else to go?

Why did he have to cut the ribbon?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry I have no words of wisdom -I don't know your back story - but I'm sorry you have to put up with that disrespect.  And it sounds like he doesn't feel he's disrespecting you.

I travelled for 9 years with work - some guys loved it. They had complete lives away from home - they'd go to movies, concerts, etc. I just worked my a55 off then went home (was out mon an- Thursday pm).

The guys who loved it probably are like your H - they assume everyone would love that life. Sounds like H feels he's making a sacrifice for your marriage by not indulging in that very often.

Not justifying this - yes I get this would be a huge trigger - but maybe you're both trying to work on it but not recognizing each other's contribution and only seeing the bad stuff (from his perspective he probably can't do anything right).

Do you guys see a MC or go to IC?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Your husband has the sensitivity of a clod of earth.
> 
> Also... did he have to go to the Expo? Could he have asked someone else to go?
> 
> Why did he have to cut the ribbon?


he went with someone else to represent the bank.
he cuts the ribbon because he's in the chamber ambassadors and they are representatives of business I guess, and it's a business event.
But, he has missed some of those ribbon cuttings before.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Sorry I have no words of wisdom -I don't know your back story - but I'm sorry you have to put up with that disrespect. And it sounds like he doesn't feel he's disrespecting you.
> 
> I travelled for 9 years with work - some guys loved it. They had complete lives away from home - they'd go to movies, concerts, etc. I just worked my a55 off then went home (was out mon an- Thursday pm).
> 
> ...


I'm going to request MC again. He goes to IC. I'm thinking she tells him what he wants to hear - "hey, it's time to get back into life, you have to do things for your job, etc and so on."


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> I'm going to request MC again. He goes to IC. I'm thinking she tells him what he wants to hear - "hey, it's time to get back into life, you have to do things for your job, etc and so on."


She might not. He might filter what she says.

Like: "You are an utter idiot. Your wife is amazing. I don't know how she puts up with your attitude" is magically translated by something between his ears into:

"_You... are... amazing_!" and the rest is whitenoised out.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> She might not. He might filter what she says.
> 
> Like: "You are an utter idiot. Your wife is amazing. I don't know how she puts up with your attitude" is magically translated by something between his ears into:
> 
> "_You... are... amazing_!" and the rest is whitenoised out.


I don't have much faith in her. She's the one who told hubby "how would it help?" when he asked her if he should tell me about a break in NC.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> I don't have much faith in her. She's the one who told hubby "how would it help?" when he asked her if he should tell me about a break in NC.


Does she have a license to practice?

I am being serious. You need to check her credentials. She seems flaky to me.

"How would honesty help in a marriage? Well... Duh!"

In fact I found an image of his IC right here


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Does she have a license to practice?
> 
> I am being serious. You need to check her credentials. She seems flaky to me.
> 
> ...


that's her! only older with fake boobs.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> that's her! only older with fake boobs.


Well, I never said it was a current photograph of her! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> I don't have much faith in her. She's the one who told hubby "how would it help?" when he asked her if he should tell me about a break in NC.


You've got one big-assed problem. This 'counselor' is promoting dishonesty, and he's following that advice to letter for his convenience.

Counselor has got to go.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stephscarlett said:


> I'm going to request MC again. He goes to IC. I'm thinking she tells him what he wants to hear - "hey, it's time to get back into life, you have to do things for your job, etc and so on."


I would go to his IC with him instead. Tell her YOUR side of everything.

Hell, personally, I would leave the son of a b*tch.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You do have a hard uncomfortable couch right?


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Yeah, the not telling you about it beforehand would piss me right off. 
I don't like the, 'Do I have to tell you everything either'. 
But that's along the lines of what the idiot IC is telling him. Yep. Tell him to fire her. Cos whatever she's doing ain't working, otherwise he wouldn't have done this. Sounds like she's siding with him. 

Whatever about all the ceremonial crap he has to do, to go to a place where he might trip over OW is pushing the envelope. I don't know any company who couldn't get someone to stand in, ambassador or not. What if a person had to back out, felt ill, got a migraine, washing machine flooded at home & has to get back there blah, blah. There's a million excuses he could have used. 

I don't know your backstory either but time for a 'watch my lips' talk and 'do I have to explain NC AGAIN? Which part do you not understand?'. 

Sheesh!


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Does she have a license to practice?
> 
> I am being serious. You need to check her credentials. She seems flaky to me.
> 
> ...


That counselor really has to go. For her to promote lying to you....
About activities concerning an AP...is just...beyond a mistake, a lapse, its counter-productive...bordering on straight up destructive. 

Find another....for your sanity and your marriage


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I don't have much faith in her. She's the one who told hubby "how would it help?" when he asked her if he should tell me about a break in NC.


It would be interesting to ask her why she said that.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> It would be interesting to ask her why she said that.


this was probably three years ago.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

anyway, we slept separately and when I told him he said "you must be really pissed." ya think?
I'm very tired of fighting for this marriage. I'm sure some people would say that I should just trust him and let him live his life. I don't want to control him. I do trust him, I told him that last night. I'm more worried about being a doormat. It's so hard to explain. I just think we really need to take care of each other and take each other's feelings into consideration. He's more - it's behind us so lets just go on as if nothing happened. 
But I think this one is different. When he said there are some things he has to do for his job he lost part of me. I want to tell him that I hope he and his job live happily ever after.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> anyway, we slept separately and when I told him he said "you must be really pissed." ya think?
> I'm very tired of fighting for this marriage. I'm sure some people would say that I should just trust him and let him live his life. I don't want to control him. I do trust him, I told him that last night. I'm more worried about being a doormat. It's so hard to explain. I just think we really need to take care of each other and take each other's feelings into consideration. He's more - it's behind us so lets just go on as if nothing happened.
> But I think this one is different. When he said there are some things he has to do for his job he lost part of me. I want to tell him that I hope he and his job live happily ever after.


Thing is, it is not really behind you. It is very much between you, and preventing trust and intimacy.

Funny last line, btw.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Steph- I get the same thing from my husband. I woke up at 5:00am and he wasn't home. I freaked out and called him. he said he got called in for an all nighter at his work and it was his job... he has to live his life….I said a heads up would have been appreciated. (especially since I narrowed down the time he started really withdrawing from me 1 1/2 years ago to the night he had to pull an all nighter with OW co-worker-him working "call" is a real trigger for me) 

Do I trust him? Mostly -but I did check his phone and his story panned out. It didn't look like OW was working with him that night and everything I have checked out for the last 6? months or so has turned out to be fine no matter how bad it looked initially. 

Our MC had recommended that I not disclose my A as well. She said it would only hurt him. That was the stupidest advice I've ever followed. 

We are trying to move forward from the messes we made but it can be very trying when there is a trigger. 

My sympathies as always Steph….and wishing you find peace.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> Thing is, it is not really behind you. It is very much between you, and preventing trust and intimacy.
> 
> Funny last line, btw.


I don't really know how to get it behind us then, so this stuff isn't an issue anymore


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I don't really know how to get it behind us then, so this stuff isn't an issue anymore


You are going back to MC, correct? Be transparent with your husband and the counselor.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> You are going back to MC, correct? Be transparent with your husband and the counselor.


we haven't been in a year or so.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> we haven't been in a year or so.


But you mentioned you are going back, correct?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> But you mentioned you are going back, correct?


I will grudgingly request it. I want him to but I suppose the jest is just getting there. I am transparent about how I feel.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> I will grudgingly request it. I want him to but I suppose the jest is just getting there. I am transparent about how I feel.


Have you tried active listening?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

jld said:


> Have you tried active listening?


Where you repeat back what the other has said? From time to time. I don't know how it would have worked last night. When he explained himself about how he feels like he can't go anywhere I said that I was hearing resentment. He said he's just stating the facts. 
He said he should be going to all these open houses and things but that he'll know I'll be upset. I said go.. do these things. The only thing I ask is not to go where they are and watch the several hours of drinking in mixed company.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Then he clearly doesn't get it and you need to keep working on communication. Sounds like he thinks he's doing what you need by not going to these things.

You should try restating in your own words what you hear and ask is this what you mean? You both are not connecting and getting frustrated - but you can't expect the other to be a mind reader. That's a recipe for resentment.

So make sure you have a good time to talk too. You can't ambush each other when you wank in the door and start to talk about this stuff. It has to be prearranged and as neutral as possible. So say "I want to talk about us and our communication and what we each want in our marriage and in each other. And I realize we think we're both working on this but we are not recognizing the other's efforts, and not getting what we need. So I want to have a safe time to just talk - 3 times a week - and see what progress we make on a month or two. I want us to both be happy with our marriage and we aren't right now. What do you think of that? When are the best times to talk about this? Can we do this for 15-30 minutes 3 times a week and see what happens?"

I really think this is a needed step for you each to feel heard.

I'd add "let's start with a rule that this isn't a blame-fest - but let's also make it safe to say what we need to say without the other one responding at that time. Just listen even if you feel the other is wrong. Let's get the stuff out on the table in a safe way."

Might help... I dunno.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Here's the thing - last week we had two events, they were uncomfortable for him to bring up but he did. One of them the year before OW2 had been at - although we didn't see her.
So I said why dont' you go and Ill join you later. I had parent teacher conferences. So he went at 6, I came at 7:30 and we were out of there by 8:30. He got to mingle before hand and make contact and network. 
Then we went to the other event the next night.

so, I thought we had set a precedence for being able to tackle these things.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> Here's the thing - last week we had two events, they were uncomfortable for him to bring up but he did. One of them the year before OW2 had been at - although we didn't see her.
> So I said why dont' you go and Ill join you later. I had parent teacher conferences. So he went at 6, I came at 7:30 and we were out of there by 8:30. He got to mingle before hand and make contact and network.
> Then we went to the other event the next night.
> 
> so, I thought we had set a precedence for being able to tackle these things.


But the words he uses tell us he doesn't have the same understanding you do. That's all. He probably thought it was "fixed" as a result of that. But it's not. So you guys need to keep talking and stop assuming you are interpreting these things the same way.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I think he called a divorce lawyer. Just to talk. I'm crushed. 
I dont' know what I did wrong but call him on his sh!t. 
I can stay married if I rugsweep bullcrap.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He is trying to punish you for being upset that he cheated on you twice to your knowledge.

Because you should have got over it like HE got over it?

DUH!!! Newsflash for Mr Idiot! That's not how this s**t works, dude!

I think you need to seek the counsel of a divorce lawyer, too.

Has he got OW3 on the radar?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I know he WANTS to stay married.. but he's tired of me calling him out.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I agree that there is a communication break down. If I understand correctly he is on a board of directors, or something along that line. If so he may be getting pressure from them to attend these functions. He may not be planning on attending, and at the last minute get the "your coming tonight, right" speech. That's not an excuse to not tell you about it, but it might be a possibility. 

Regardless both of you are not hearing each other. You are making valid points that he needs to get. Hopefully MC can help with this.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

stephscarlett said:


> I know he WANTS to stay married.. but he's tired of me calling him out.


Talk to him about his comment regarding "there are some things that he just needs to do for work", tell him there are some things that he needs to do for a marriage too, especially when he's proven he doesn't always have your best intentions at heart. Talk to him like marriage is business, how one would be able to rebuild trust after embezelling money. Then tell him cheating is like the embezelling, one person takes marital time, money and energy away from the other. Also let him know, any decent woman will hold their husband to task regarding inappropriate boundaries, he's clueless if he thinks he can start why relationship without having accountability, especially if he admits he's a serial cheat.

I recommend you too go see a lawyer, know your rights, it sounds to me like your H didn't want to "reconcile" rather just maintain the "status quo". Remember cheating is all about the WS, reconciliation is about the WS no longer being selfish, some cheaters can never accept that.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

always_hopefull said:


> "there are some things that he just needs to do for work", tell him there are some things that he needs to do for a marriage too, especially when he's proven he doesn't always have your best intentions at heart. .


I thought about this. Actually since he said this, and knows I would be hurt, I thought "message received." 
He would say, "when does it end?" he does not get that making your spouse feel safe lasts forever.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

stephscarlett said:


> I thought about this. Actually since he said this, and knows I would be hurt, I thought "message received."
> He would say, "when does it end?" he does not get that making your spouse feel safe lasts forever.


Tell him it ends when the triggers end, the triggers end when you feel there are no further threats to your marriage, that ends when he makes you feel safe. Going where OW are is no different than looking through the cash drawer at work when no one is around, it looks suspiscious only because of the persons history.

Ask him how he would feel if someone he loved was an alcoholic, but didn't get treatment and hung out at bars. It's all about past behaviour predicting future behaviour. If he wants your trust, he needs to earn it. Just like his job, he worked his way up, he earned their respect. This is no different.

Why can't you go? Company policy? If so where is it written? Write them a letter telling them they are fostering an environment where family is second and they are contributing to martial breakdowns with such a policy and they may be sued by a spurned spouse if they start using these gatherings to conduct affairs. You can do it anonymously.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

always_hopefull said:


> Tell him it ends when the triggers end, the triggers end when you feel there are no further threats to your marriage, that ends when he makes you feel safe. Going where OW are is no different than looking through the cash drawer at work when no one is around, it looks suspiscious only because of the persons history.
> 
> Ask him how he would feel if someone he loved was an alcoholic, but didn't get treatment and hung out at bars. It's all about past behaviour predicting future behaviour. If he wants your trust, he needs to earn it. Just like his job, he worked his way up, he earned their respect. This is no different.
> 
> Why can't you go? Company policy? If so where is it written? Write them a letter telling them they are fostering an environment where family is second and they are contributing to martial breakdowns with such a policy and they may be sued by a spurned spouse if they start using these gatherings to conduct affairs. You can do it anonymously.


oh I could have gone. It's open to the public. My best friend was there. But, I didn't know he was going and I wasn't even asked... 
he would say he's done enough to earn my trust.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

stephscarlett said:


> I know he WANTS to stay married.. but he's tired of me calling him out.


He is attempting to bully you into submitting. Don't fall for it. Call that out too. 

Have an escape plan, he seems the type that if you push back hard enough he will take a swing at you.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

stephscarlett said:


> oh I could have gone. It's open to the public. My best friend was there. But, I didn't know he was going and I wasn't even asked...
> he would say he's done enough to earn my trust.


To him he may think that, but given he just lied by omission, he lost some...

Besides, it's not whatever he thinks is okay anymore, he is a serial cheater with a bad reputation, it's how he "acts". Your H sounds like he can't stand the consequences for his actions . He's using divorce as a tool to manipulate you into accepting this. It's not weather or not he will change anymore, it's weather or not you will tolerate being treated like this.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Your husband sounds a lot like mine. He told me two weeks ago that me checking his text messages “needed to stop”. A mere month after he told me he ended his 10 year EA with his ex gf that escalated to talk about them being together in the future while he and I were separated for a whopping 4 months. That I suspect went physical but have no proof of. 

Yeah buddy. Ain’t gonna happen. I told him blind trust was gone and if he wanted it back he better damn well be doing everything in his power to build it and be worthy of it. And right now, I’m nowhere near that point. 

I’ve accepted the consequences of my cheating. I VOLUNTARILY gave him my passwords, full access to my phone, etc. He tells me he doesn’t want it, doesn’t want to monitor me. That it’s not healthy. I told him he could choose to monitor if he wants, and if he doesn’t he doesn’t. I could care less either way because those are things I now have to accept given what I did. 

Right now, I feel safe that my husband isn’t contacting ex gf. Not sure why I feel safe because I don’t feel like he’s been 100% honest or transparent with me. But I guess I just have a gut feeling that he’s finally ended contact. Do I trust him? Absolutely not. And if I start to not feel safe, you can believe that I will start investigating as I need to and/or call him out on whatever sh*t I’ll think I need to. If he doesn’t want to deal with that, then I guess he can leave. I wouldn’t like it if he did leave, but in the long run it would be better than being with someone who couldn’t give a sh*t about the feelings that I have that were caused by HIM.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

always_hopefull said:


> especially if he admits he's a serial cheat.
> 
> I recommend you too go see a lawyer, know your rights, it sounds to me like your H didn't want to "reconcile" rather just maintain the "status quo". Remember cheating is all about the WS, reconciliation is about the WS no longer being selfish, some cheaters can never accept that.


He's not a serial cheat. He had two reactionary affairs to my affair. 
If he can't get past what I did, compounded by the fact that I hold him accountable for his affair, it probably isn't a very pleasant life for him. I don't know what to do though.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

stephscarlett said:


> He's not a serial cheat. He had two reactionary affairs to my affair.
> If he can't get past what I did, compounded by the fact that I hold him accountable for his affair, it probably isn't a very pleasant life for him. I don't know what to do though.


how long was your A? how long were his?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> how long was your A? how long were his?


probably a month
his were probably 3 weeks each. His second one he said he justified because I had two. But I was assaulted in a hotel room. ANd he knows that. But he was still in pain over it.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

What is the chance that your husband did not have an RA out of pain so much as seeing it as a "freebie" and therefore feels no remorse whatsoever?


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I really think he was in pain. But justified because of what i did, feels little remorse


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I don't have much faith in her. She's the one who told hubby "how would it help?" when he asked her if he should tell me about a break in NC.


Wow. She is a threat to your marriage. I would insist he stop seeing her if he wants to remain married to you. Also, I don't know the back story but I gather he has had 2 affairs while married to you and alcohol was involved and his job somewhat requires him to be in close proximity to at least one of these wh0res on occasion.

Why is he still in that job? Can he find a different job? Maybe even in a different town where there's no chance to run into these triggers?

Based on what is in your first post I don't think there is any way he thought it was okay to go to the ribbon cutting. He felt pressured by work to do it, or he wanted to do it, so he did it. He didn't call you first because he knew full well it would upset you, and rightfully so, otherwise he never would have discusses telling you with his IC (Incompetent counselor).


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> he has had 2 affairs while married to you and alcohol was involved and his job somewhat requires him to be in close proximity to at least one of these wh0res on occasion.
> 
> Why is he still in that job? Can he find a different job? Maybe even in a different town where there's no chance to run into these triggers?
> 
> Based on what is in your first post I don't think there is any way he thought it was okay to go to the ribbon cutting. He felt pressured by work to do it, or he wanted to do it, so he did it. He didn't call you first because he knew full well it would upset you, and rightfully so, otherwise he never would have discusses telling you with his IC (Incompetent counselor).


Alcohol not involved.. Actually not at all. Hmmm.
Both of them work here. He works 100 yards away from one.
So I feel I'm being pretty damn accommodating.
Work or spouse? See, it's pretty clear in my head. But him, not so much.
He won't move. I've requested it.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> Alcohol not involved.. Actually not at all. Hmmm.
> Both of them work here. He works 100 yards away from one.
> So I feel I'm being pretty damn accommodating.
> Work or spouse? See, it's pretty clear in my head. But him, not so much.
> He won't move. I've requested it.


I assumed alcohol because you said something like "he's not to be out with the opposite sex where alcohol is served."

Well, I don't want to pump discontent into your marriage, especially if you feels things are good/improving. But...

He had 2 affairs. It seems like you are past the "requesting" stage and at the "These are my conditions if you want to remain married to me" stage. He doesn't get to work 100 yards from one of the hos and keep you as a wife. It causes you trauma. Whether he thinks that's legit or not is irrelevant. It is what it is. He screwed around on you and now you're uncomfortable every day that he leaves the house for work. And you don't like being uncomfortable and triggered every day of your marriage. He caused this problem and he can't fix it working 100 yards from one of his other women.

Have you heard or read about the book Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley? They have a list of extraordinary precautions for married couples to help them recover from an affair, and one of them is that if the affair partner lives anywhere in your city, you move. If you have any chance of crossing paths with them through work, you find another job. Doesn't matter if you love your job or can't get as good of one or what have you. You can't subject a betrayed spouse to those triggers and expect to remain married.

Here is some info on it if you're interested:
Steps to Recover from an affair/infidelity in marriage


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I'm sure some people would say that I should just trust him and let him live his life.


Sure there are. People who have never been betrayed, people who are cheaters themselves, and people who are conflict averse and don't mind the idea of you living with constant reminders of betrayal in your life as long as you're willing to be quiet about it and keep the peace.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I thought about this. Actually since he said this, and knows I would be hurt, I thought "message received."
> He would say, "when does it end?" he does not get that making your spouse feel safe lasts forever.


Exactly. It doesn't "end." It's a part of being married. My husband and I have no infidelity between us. But he always tells me where he's going before he goes. (I don't always listen, but he tells me). Just as I do for him. I work from home a lot so when I go out to see a client I always call or text him that I arrived, and when I'm heading home I tell him. If I'm stopping anywhere - like the grocery store - I tell him.

It's not about trusting, and it's not any kind of burden. It's instinctual. It's about being connected. We're married. Neither of us would ever leave the house without telling the other.

I know not all married couples are like that, but _*most *_of the married people I know can tell you exactly where their spouse is at any given moment.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> Your husband sounds a lot like mine. He told me two weeks ago that me checking his text messages ?needed to stop?. A mere month after he told me he ended his 10 year EA with his ex gf that escalated to talk about them being together in the future while he and I were separated for a whopping 4 months. That I suspect went physical but have no proof of.
> 
> Yeah buddy. Ain?t gonna happen. I told him blind trust was gone and if he wanted it back he better damn well be doing everything in his power to build it and be worthy of it. And right now, I?m nowhere near that point.
> 
> ...


LH I've read a lot of your posts and respect what you have to say. I never read your personal story - frankly I'm the kind of guy that lets people be who they are today and not dwell on their past. But earlier on I got the feeling you were the WW who did a stupid thing... stopped, but the damage was done, and you suffered with guilt and regret. Screams "cautionary tale" for potential WW.

However, as time goes on I'm liking H less and less and honestly have no respect for him. He sounds like a *********, frankly. And not really worth the emotional burden you've been under.

Just sayin'. You sound like a quality woman and you deserve a quality man. Hit the reset button and find a guy that deserves the real, complete, enlightened, you.

Just my $.02. Sorry for the thread jack.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> Have you heard or read about the book Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley? They have a list of extraordinary precautions for married couples to help them recover from an affair, and one of them is that if the affair partner lives anywhere in your city, you move. If you have any chance of crossing paths with them through work, you find another job. Doesn't matter if you love your job or can't get as good of one or what have you. You can't subject a betrayed spouse to those triggers and expect to remain married.
> 
> Here is some info on it if you're interested:
> Steps to Recover from an affair/infidelity in marriage


He has said he's not going to suffer anymore for this marriage. He's suffered enough. So, moving away from his lucrative job is somethign he won't do. 
Yes, I'm aware of Harley, I actually called his radio show and asked if we should move. He said yes. Hubby read His NEeds Her Needs or some other book Harley wrote and told me his love bank depletes when I have angry outbursts. The next time he brings up that kind of crap I'll ask if he wants to do this the Harley way, which means we move.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> He has said he's not going to suffer anymore for this marriage. He's suffered enough. So, moving away from his lucrative job is somethign he won't do.
> Yes, I'm aware of Harley, I actually called his radio show and asked if we should move. He said yes. Hubby read His NEeds Her Needs or some other book Harley wrote and told me his love bank depletes when I have angry outbursts. The next time he brings up that kind of crap I'll ask if he wants to do this the Harley way, which means we move.


Wow. I'm really sorry. I don't know your background situation but I have this feeling that you would be better off without him. He does not sound like husband material.

I don't know anything about your angry outbursts, but I'm curious. Are you like that in general and were you like that before this marriage, or has he found the magic key to unlock your inner rage? 

I ask because while it's true that you and you alone are responsible for your temper, living with a man who had multiple affairs and now says "he's suffered enough for this marriage" would cause a slow drip of pain and frustration. I would think that either his attitude toward the marriage and you would have to change, or you would have to extricate yourself from a relationship with him.

He is telling you, to your face, that his job means more to him than you and the marriage do. HE had affairs and now he is flippant/dismissive about the damage he did.

My suggestion, if you want it, is to figure out what you need to do to separate. Then very calmly, no angry outburst needed, explain to him that you are no longer willing to be married to a man who works in close proximity to his AP. Then kick him out or leave.

Then work on yourself and your anger issues, assuming they remain when he's not around, then when you're ready, start over with someone new without all this pain and baggage.

I understand it may not be that simple at all. But as long as you are accepting that he remain in that job you are going to live in pain.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> LH I've read a lot of your posts and respect what you have to say. I never read your personal story - frankly I'm the kind of guy that lets people be who they are today and not dwell on their past. But earlier on I got the feeling you were the WW who did a stupid thing... stopped, but the damage was done, and you suffered with guilt and regret. Screams "cautionary tale" for potential WW.
> 
> However, as time goes on I'm liking H less and less and honestly have no respect for him. He sounds like a *********, frankly. And not really worth the emotional burden you've been under.
> 
> ...


That's my thought. I don't know how old you are, how bad you (LH) want to be married to him, how happy you are with him on an average day, if you have children, etc. But it sounds like you would be happier alone without him or starting over with a clean slate with someone new with no infidelity/triggers on either side.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> I don't know anything about your angry outbursts, but I'm curious. Are you like that in general and were you like that before this marriage, or has he found the magic key to unlock your inner rage?
> 
> living with a man who had multiple affairs and now says "he's suffered enough for this marriage" would cause a slow drip of pain and frustration.
> He is telling you, to your face, that his job means more to him than you and the marriage do. HE had affairs and now he is flippant/dismissive about the damage he did.
> ...


My last angry outburst was probably a year ago. But any conversation about the affairs, no matter how calm, is frustrating to him. 
I don't consider him as having multiple affairs, but two reactionary affairs.
I agree he is telling me something to my face about his actions.
I'm not going to do anything until MC. It's too bad -every other part of our life is perfect.
we are at the impasse and disagreement we've had since his affairs - he wants to keep him job, I want him to curtail him public appearances. But for what reason? So I can feel better? Isn't this something I have to heal inside myself?
So, he can do less of his job, maybe make less, maybe not feel like he's doing a good job. His self esteem is tied directly to his job. But that is his issue. He's not cheating. I do trust him. But I feel like a first class doormat and I don't know why. People here seem to understand. People IRL do not.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> My last angry outburst was probably a year ago. But any conversation about the affairs, no matter how calm, is frustrating to him.
> I don't consider him as having multiple affairs, but two reactionary affairs.
> I agree he is telling me something to my face about his actions.
> I'm not going to do anything until MC. It's too bad -every other part of our life is perfect.
> ...


People in real life probably like you as a couple and want you to just let it go for their own comfort due to the roll you play in their lives. 

My parents really liked my first husband. Not so much my current one (because current one avoids my friends/family). My first husband and I divorced because he was always out drinking and he claimed he didn't want to be married anymore since his kids were now teens and he didn't need me anymore.... After the divorce he told me about all the women he screwed while married to me. Even knowing all that, my parents occasionally reminisce about how much more they liked my first husband.

Your friends and family IRL may understand more than they let on, but they just want everything to be good with you two and the fastest way for you to get there is to stop feeling what you are feeling.

*What are reactionary affairs?* Is that a one night stand or something he did in reaction to infidelity on your part?

I understand his self esteem is tied directly to his job, but your security and sense of being loved by your husband is tied to moving forward and how can you move forward with these constant reminders hanging around? Can he at least look for other work? He might find something even better elsewhere.

In the meantime, I think it's really smart if he knows one of them may be at an event to tell you in advance and you join him if at all possible. And I strongly suspect you'd have been a lot less triggered by this ribbon cutting if he'd told you in advance instead of after the fact. I don't know if a ribbon cutting is open to the public but it seems like the kind of thing where they'd be happy to have spouses show up like their little ceremony is a huge deal.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Is it the triggering as he may bump into OW at his work? 
Or is it that he is not showing as much care as you would like him to about your feelings by not moving jobs? 

Not telling you in advance he was going there sucks. He has GOT to let you know in advance. Make sure he assures you he will. It's a start. 
It was loud & clear in your first post that you were very angry you had been told afterwards. So would I.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Seems to me that your husband has basically laid out the terms of staying married to you, and it involves you sucking up an awful lot.

It's up to you to decide whether you can live like that.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

It just seems so disrespectful. I understand accidental contact. I don't understand purposely going where she is likely to be. She wasn't. So is that supposed to be ok? This was where they met! 
I would never do this. I asked him to think of it as I explained earlier. That if went to an event my AP organized and I told hubby afterwards. Wouldn't he be pissed? He said he understood. 
Yep, he is pretty much saying this is how it will go, but why? Does he not think I'll leave?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think he may know you'll leave but the marriage isn't worth the effort. He gets his self worth and affirmation from his job. He doesn't seek it or get it from you or his marriage.

If I were you I'd ask point blank if this is true. If so, I'd believe him. Then I'd do what I needed to do to separate finances, separate friends and family, and seek a life with someone who wants to be with me.

May sound harsh but that's what I hear


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw could just be punishment for you affair(s). 

Why don't you shed some light on them. Was it a coworker? An old flame? Neighbor? A friend of his? Who it was might matter too - it could have been particularly disrespectful or humiliating and he may still be seething over it.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I had an affair with a co-worker who since moved away. It was s one time PA thing,


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

stephscarlett said:


> I had an affair with a co-worker who since moved away. It was s one time PA thing,


How did you deal with it as a couple? Was it discovered or did you confess? Did you do MC and did H get a chance to fully work through it? Finally - what happened in your M prior to the A that set you up for it?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw I am asking these things to see if there might be something else going on in your H's mind and dealing with this


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

I confessed. 
There is no way we fully dealt with it. Hubby spent time threatening OM. I was also sexually assaulted in a hotel room a year later. That also tore both of us up. 6 months later I caught him in two affairs one right after the other. So no, they weren't dealt with in a healthy way.
Your question is good and I'm going to ask him.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

It doesn't matter what happened in our marriage before my affair. I had no right.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sounds like you have unresolved issues, resentment, hurt, humiliation... a whole tangled ball of emotions.

It's often hardest to be honest and open with the people we love and we closest with... we're more considerate of strangers and will move toward divorce before being honest and open with our emotions. Sucks to be human... 

So maybe it's time to deal with the emotional retaliation, rug sweeping, and denial. It's hard. But you guys need to sit down and say how you feel and listen to each other. If H us like most guys he sucks at dealing with emotions and probably doesn't even know how to understand them. So you have to lead here... And MC can provide a safer more neutral place to vote this.

For what it's worth, a PA is often a deal breaker for most guys. It's way too hard on the ego and emasculates men - and knocks our W off the pedestal we put them on. It is very hard to come to terms with. Your H may not be able to without help and support.

His back to back RAs sound more like a poke in your eye in retaliation than anything else.

You'll also have to be honest about what made a PA an option for you - these things don't just happen. Even if you can't tell H the reasons initially you have to be honest with yourself without blaming H. Why did you indulge yourself? Was he super hot? Emotionally available? A good listener? Vulnerable? You must work through your own issues that made you put your marriage at risk. This honesty is harsh and not something we want to admit to ourselves. No one reason is better than another - or worse - so put it out there. A guy's worst nightmare is the AP was hotter or more masculine. The reality is women are often able to overlook physical appearance for an emotional connection. In any event - I'm not the judge - bug you need to be honest (at least with us) about where your head was at. 

So you have your issues... h has his... and you two have yours as a couple.

Please think about this... you need to work through this to be a couple again


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Sounds like you have unresolved issues, resentment, hurt, humiliation... a whole tangled ball of emotions.
> 
> It's often hardest to be honest and open with the people we love and we closest with... we're more considerate of strangers and will move toward divorce before being honest and open with our emotions. Sucks to be human...
> 
> ...


For the record, again, I have NEVER blamed my husband for my affair. I have gone through why I had an affair. 
I'm sure what I did emasculated him. I know that. If it's a dealbreaker or he can't live with it then we should split, but he needs to at least tell me. 
I don't feel we have rugswept or denied. We have gone through ALL of this. And said our feelings to each other.
Our issue is what is occurring presently. I feel we really need to take care of each other. He feels it's in the past and we need to live as normally as we can, as if it didn't happen.

He takes it personally that I don't trust him. He feels sorry for himself. I don't understand that. If he has trust issues with me I feel badly for him, not me. 

We have been to years of MC and IC.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

It's hard to tell anything based on what little I know about your relationship over the Internet given I've only read this thread. Either he's a real jerk, or...

If kind of sounds like he feels you're the one that broke the trust and the marriage, and he's being penalized. I doubt he feels his 2 ONS were anything more than payback - a chance to save face and retaliate. That's very different from going out and starting an affair.

Why don't you trust him? I'm a bit confused by that. Are you afraid he'll get mad at you and have another ONS just to spite you? It seems that's the only line he's crossed in the past (based on this thread). Or are you interpreting his RA as something also including an EA?

Has this come out in the years of MC you guys went through?

What's confusing is you say in the one hand - we've been through all this - and we've had years of MC - but in the other hand, the problems you describe seem to be basic communication and empathy / understanding issues. So if that's true, then I doubt you've gotten to the root of things.

Again - I'm only responding to what you post. But you two clearly aren't on the same page about the resolution of this infidelity.... which by all accounts on TAM takes years to get through, with the BS dealing with the issue from tons to time for the rest of the marriage. So if he's saying let's move on - well either he doesn't want to address it anymore, or he's saying "I'm willing to suck it up and move on - you should too." IDK - speculation but that's all I can do.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> If kind of sounds like he feels you're the one that broke the trust and the marriage, and he's being penalized. I doubt he feels his 2 ONS were anything more than payback - a chance to save face and retaliate. That's very different from going out and starting an affair.
> 
> Why don't you trust him? I'm a bit confused by that. Are you afraid he'll get mad at you and have another ONS just to spite you? It seems that's the only line he's crossed in the past (based on this thread). Or are you interpreting his RA as something also including an EA?
> 
> ...


He did NOT have two ONS. They were month long affairs I caught him in both times. I'm not sure they were entirely RA but probably there was a combination of many issues. He purposely started one after I put an end to the first. 
we very much have understanding and empathy issues compounded by our differences in the ways we communicated. That is for sure. 
Perhaps he's just not an empathetic person. I think we HAVE gotten to the root of things but it's so unacceptable, for both of us, that it's hard to stay together. 
I am willing to suck it up (both his affairs) and move on. But only if he understands and is empathetic to my triggers.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Thanks. That's helpful but I didn't get that understanding of your situation before.

Sounds like you know the score. An he may not be empathetic enough to be a good spouse for you.

I stopped progressing in my career 15 years ago to spend time with my W and kids. My friends who continued in their careers are "C" level executives (CFO for example) but the cost is significant in their personal lives. "white people problems" 

I've found there are a couple of types of people who are this dedicated to work - selfless "nice" guys who happen to be very smart and capable and do much more work than their peers; and opportunistic, kind of self-focused guys who view success in their careers as a demonstration of their overall value. Those latter guys actually like the ribbon cutting events whereas the former type loath them as yet another encroachment into their personal time.

I take it H might be more of the second type of guy? If so, you have some thinking to do about what you are willing to live with.

Personally... I'm overpaid for my role, way underpaid for my value, and way underutilized. But I'm going into my banking job at 11:00 am because I goofed off at home this morning, and I go to most of my kids games. All about choices in life, and none are easy.

Good luck.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> kind of self-focused guys who view success in their careers as a demonstration of their overall value.
> 
> If so, you have some thinking to do about what you are willing to live with.
> 
> ...


thanks yes. And it's an additional thing I don't understand because I'm not like that about my job.

We have MC tomorrow night. I'm going to ask him if he gets any affirmation being married to me.
I suppose I need to think about where I get my affirmation.


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

We had a good MC session. He called an attorney because he thought I was going to ask for a divorce at MC. 
I wasn't, of course, but I didn't know what to do. MC said he was trying to do his job and kill two birds with one
stone by going to that event, but it wasn't meant to hurt me. I said I was good with 99% of the things he does for his 
job and don't say one word. MC said that was reasonable that there are just a couple things that he could avoid.
But also, MC said that he needs to be way more emotionally transparent to me, and that will put me at ease. That communication can solve all of this.

things is, I'm getting some pushback from other people - that if they were my husband they would be angry I was even triggering, because what I did was way worse. So, we're even, I should keep my mouth shut and be glad I'm still married, I guess.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're two consenting adults who are currently choosing to stay together despite old wounds. Therefore, there is no 'you were worse than him.' They aren't in your marriage; tell them to butt out.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Steph - I've been reading your thread and thinking of you. Crazy busy time of year for me so I can't post much right now, but do want to send some support your way. I so admire you and your H for trying to get past the devastation of infidelity and stay together. I think the key is being able to say you still love each other enough to make it work. As long as you know that is there, I'd say hang in there and keep working on communication. I hope your H feels the same way.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

As I kind of indicated, I think H could be less than transparent on purpose - at least subconsciously - because of lingering resentment.

I echo other who commend you to for sticking with this. It will take time. Sure others will say a lot of sh1t but they aren't walking in your shoes. If your H were my friend I'd have the same opinion. But it doesn't really matter.

You both have to rebuild trust. It takes time and a desire to let go of the hurt and resentment. That's got to be hard when you're triggering, and can hit the reset button. That goes for both of you. Just because H outwardly says "get over it" doesn't mean he actually has.

Celebrate the good things and encourage him to do the same. Change the photos around the house to various positive memories over the years and point them out and talk about them. Share those bonding experiences and try to make the positive moments outweigh the negative ones.

A final point - as a woman I think you must lead emotionally and draw the positive feelings out of him. Most men don't feel and think at the same time, so recognize that when you talk to him. It's much easier for most guys to marshal anger than a positive emotion - we naturally have a fight or conflict orientation just below the surface particularly at work (at least I do and sounds like H does too). So keep that in mind and create an atmosphere where he is more likely to merge happy thoughts of the past with your current situation.

If you improve as a couple it will be due to your hard work. Maybe think of the next emotionally distant, inconsiderate act as a cry for help - meaning he's letting his resentment rear its ugly head - and try to view it as a challenge to reel him back in, as opposed to thinking of it as something that hurts.

Just an idea ???


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## stephscarlett (Sep 2, 2015)

TheTruthHurts said:


> As I kind of indicated, I think H could be less than transparent on purpose - at least subconsciously - because of lingering resentment.


thanks for your thoughts. I am not sensing this from him, at least not anymore. I sense more of a thinking that it wouldn't be an issue.


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