# I am a really sick SOB



## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Ok, I was talking with my wife about our son when he gets older. 

Her: We should instal one of those gps tracking devices in the car.

Me : Yeah while we are at it hidden cams too.

Her: That will not keep him from doing things.

Me : I know but at least we would know. We could give him a high five when he gets home.

Her: Wow you are one really sick.......... (insert dagger eyes and no more talking for the rest of the night)

Ok, It may have not bean all that funny. But am I way out there. Was it such a bad thing to say? Or is she over sensitive?


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

were you being sarcastic because of her gps remark or being serious?

if you were serious i think your being a little over the top with the cams.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I was sarcastic, but then again perhaps she could not tell that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh come on... I took your remark as sarcastic humor. I think it's funny... the kind of thing I'd say to get the point across.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

It's a test. Obviously you were kidding. She knew that. What she wanted you to do is apologize for making a joke that didn't meet with her approval. If you do that, it means she has power over you. If you don't, you retain power over yourself. I hope you didn't apologize.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> It's a test. Obviously you were kidding. She knew that. What she wanted you to do is apologize for making a joke that didn't meet with her approval. If you do that, it means she has power over you. If you don't, you retain power over yourself. I hope you didn't apologize.


No I did not. I just rolled my eyes. She repeated herself and I walked away.

The reply I would love to hear her say would be "lets go out for a drive and pretend we are 16 again." But that would happen when pigs fly.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Sounds like she is not comfortable with the prospect of him being sexually active.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

DTO said:


> Sounds like she is not comfortable with the prospect of him being sexually active.


I certainly was raised "correctly" in a Christian home. I remember being 16 and my first car. She is naive if she thinks that will not be running threw his head.

I think PHT is correct about it being a test. Anything I say about sex repulses her. Even in a joking manner. Sometime I feel like I married an old lady. But then I realize even grandma can tell a dirty joke. So now I realize I married a little girl. Eeeew boys a gross and all the game playing.

She always makes me out to be a sex freak when i am not. Normally I realize this but this time I was not sure if I crossed a line.

Do not want to talk to much about it or over analyze the situation.

I just wanted to know if I crossed the line into disgusting. Since she is such a prude I have no reference to work off of.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

LOL. No you're not sick, you like to joke around and that's good.

My husband has a very crass sense of humor. I'm fine with that...I love joking around with him, it keeps things fun. It no longer shocks me either! LOL It's just who he is and I wouldn't want him to pretend to be someone he's not when he's with me.

If what you said offended your wife, she'd be mortified by my husband! LOL


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

That's something my H would say. And having a 17 year old daughter, we have to face the facts of life. At least with a son you only have one d!ck to worry about  That's what my dad use to say about me and my brother.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Cherry said:


> That's something my H would say. And having a 17 year old daughter, we have to face the facts of life. *At least with a son you only have one d!ck to worry **about*  That's what my dad use to say about me and my brother.


OMG that is so true. LOL I never thought of it that way.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Thanks Cherry and bubbly girl.

Sometimes you got to inject humor into serious matters. I prefer to laugh then to cry or constantly be uptight about things that are just life's events.

I think although my wife appears to be trying at times the game is still going on.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

CrazyGuy - I'm totally with you on this one!
Cops, Firefighters and Paramedics all have a warped sense of humour...its a coping mechanism. They see and have to deal with such awful things sometimes that teh only way to deal with it is to inject some humour!
We live in such a $hit world anyway (stresses of work, economics etc) you've got to have a laugh!

I have a 12 year old son and a 10 yr old daughter...to him I will say (when he's 16)...get out there lad, have fun and enjoy...SAFELY...to her I'll say...'Not until you are married'!!!

Trying to be serious, of course I won't try to stop either of them...just make sure they go 'out there' knowing all the facts etc.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

jezza said:


> I have a 12 year old son and a 10 yr old daughter...to him I will say (when he's 16)...get out there lad, have fun and enjoy...SAFELY...to her I'll say...'Not until you are married'!!!
> 
> Trying to be serious, of course I won't try to stop either of them...just make sure they go 'out there' knowing all the facts etc.


:iagree:

We joke about when our twins are older (boy/girl - 3 years old), our little girl can't date until she is at least 35, and our little man, well you know  Such is life! We know none of our insider jokes should be taken so literal and we will cross the dating bridge when we get to it with them. With my oldest girl, it was actually pretty simple, something about our twins being a handful and the effects of unprotected sex.... She doesn't want kids, ever, now! I'm sure that will change, but at 17, I'll play along!


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

Cherry said:


> That's something my H would say. And having a 17 year old daughter, we have to face the facts of life. At least with a son you only have one d!ck to worry about  That's what my dad use to say about me and my brother.


I used to think the same thing, until someone pointed out that a girl can only get pregnant once every 9 months, but with a boy, that one penis can impregnant many girls, at anytime. And they have no say in what happens with the pregnancy. The thought is kinda scary since I have 3 boys lol.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

ScaredandUnsure said:


> I used to think the same thing, until someone pointed out that a girl can only get pregnant once every 9 months, but with a boy, that one penis can impregnant many girls, at anytime. And they have no say in what happens with the pregnancy. The thought is kinda scary since I have 3 boys lol.


Oh I'm well aware of that... It was just a joke a in our house and it stopped at that  My brother didn't impregnate anyone until he and his wife decided to have children 10 years into his one and only marriage.


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

Cherry said:


> Oh I'm well aware of that... It was just a joke a in our house and it stopped at that  My brother didn't impregnate anyone until he and his wife decided to have children 10 years into his one and only marriage.


I figured it was a joke. I was just saying. Now I cringe when I imagine my kids as teens LOL.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> No I did not. I just rolled my eyes. She repeated herself and I walked away.
> 
> The reply I would love to hear her say would be "lets go out for a drive and pretend we are 16 again." But that would happen when pigs fly.


I have a slightly twisted and sarcastic sense of humor myself and there are some days when every comment my husband makes equates to a sexual innuendo to me. LOL...he's learned to live with it. I try to keep it under control in public. Oh my...the things that can happen when your 16 with wheels.

It sounds like your wife is just plain uptight...and that's no fun. I understand the need to be concerned about your children but when you are obviously making a joke it is too bad she can't just take it in the spirit it was meant.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

ScaredandUnsure said:


> I figured it was a joke. I was just saying. Now I cringe when I imagine my kids as teens LOL.


I dodged the bullet with my now 17 year old... I gave her the best birth control imaginable and I didn't even know it, at first. She doesn't even want the responsibility of caring for a gold fish anymore! I guess infant twins can have that effect on a teenager coming of age! Anytime she would complain that all they do is cry, poop, eat, whatever, I just simply say "remember that"...


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

I get it CrazyGuy and your thread made me giggle. But for your wife, you're talk about her little boy, HER BABY getting freaky... so, even though you were joking, mom's don't joke about their kids. I would just blow it off.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> So now I realize I married a little girl. Eeeew boys a gross and all the game playing.


It's not unusual for wives to want (even subconsciously) to continue playing courtship games well after marriage. My advice in these cases is to start playing the games. You don't have to lose the games. Get some education from Married Man Sex Life or No More Mr. Nice Guy and start winning. You might just improve your marriage.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Ok here is something I remember was taught way back in sex ed. 

Teacher told us that a normal aspirin could be used as a form of berth control. 

He had us all paying attention. All the teen age kids are like yeah got to get us aspirin. Tell us more.

Teacher played it up, no no no I am not sure I can tell you. Your parents may not approve and I may get in trouble.

After some begging from the kids he says...OK but you can not tell anybody this. If you take an aspirin and put it between her knees and she holds it there she cant get pregnant.

Kids are like what are you talking about I don't get it?

"Put the aspirin between her knees, as long as she holds her knees together to hold the aspirin there she won't get pregnant"


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

CrazyGuy said:


> Ok here is something I remember was taught way back in sex ed.
> 
> Teacher told us that a normal aspirin could be used as a form of berth control.
> 
> ...


:rofl: :smthumbup:


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

I think most women don't want to accept the fact that their son's will be sexually active. The same with men and their daughters. Her "baby" having sex is also admitting that his affection will soon be directed toward another women. 
If you hit a nerve..best not to hit it again. 

PS not sure if she thought you were "sick" because your comment not only accepted but, would encourage his sexual activity. I wonder if she made a reference to her High fiveing your doughter after getting laid if you would think that was funny. 

With all the progress the women's movement has made, sadly the double standard is still prevelant.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

CrazyGuy said:


> Ok, I was talking with my wife about our son when he gets older.
> 
> Her: We should instal one of those gps tracking devices in the car.
> 
> ...


It may just be me, but it seemed like she was trying to share some thoughts about concern for your child. Your response was sarcastic, but also seemed to mock her feelings a little. Just my $.02


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Riverside MFT said:


> It may just be me, but it seemed like she was trying to share some thoughts about concern for your child. Your response was sarcastic, but also seemed to mock her feelings a little. Just my $.02


When she was talking about the gps my son was there and she was joking. Saying it sucks to be you HaHaHa.

That is when I made the comment about installing the cams.

When I told her about the high five part I said it in her ear so my son could not hear it.

We where all joking around.


Story time!

When I was five years old I can remember spending hours at a time just staring at women in underwear and bras in that big old Sears catalog. I loved taking my older sisters dolls and taking there cloths off. I always loved the shape of women even though I had no clue about sex. It was an innocent fascination.

My parents freaked though. Told me never touch a girl "here and there." As I got older and new about sex, I was told it was dirty something you should not do. So yes you can imagine I had a very conflicted view of myself in my teen years.

I do not want my son to grow up and think sex is bad. I want him to wait until he is an adult. But if it happens in his teen years I want him to have fun and be safe. Not that I approve it though. It is a more sane view then what I had.

That said, I also want my wife to accept who I am. Yes I still love the shape of women. Yes my mind has dirty thoughts at times. I am not sick, Lets have some fun before we die. If she can not accept me for who I really am then why are we married. I do not want to watch what I say in fear of pissing her off. She is uptight about sex. I think I know why. I do not think I can change that for her. She is very controlling and manipulative. 

Sorry to all the advice to people that want me to man up or follow some other approach. I am just going to be me. So what? I do not care anymore if it ends in divorce.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Don't let him drive if you feel that way about it. I remember long ago when the US (and other countries) moved their drinking age from 18 to 21. If the goal was to have safer drivers, which is how it was sold, then why not increase the driving age instead and no penalize the drivers who are already sane and safe? If you're worried that your child won't be responsible behind the wheel, don't let them drive.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> Don't let him drive if you feel that way about it. I remember long ago when the US (and other countries) moved their drinking age from 18 to 21. If the goal was to have safer drivers, which is how it was sold, then why not increase the driving age instead and no penalize the drivers who are already sane and safe? If you're worried that your child won't be responsible behind the wheel, don't let them drive.


He is a great kid! He is only 10 and we are arguing about stuff that is going to happen in 6 years!

We have a classic mint condition Mustang GT stored in our garage for him. Same car I had in school. I am just going to tell him don't drive like an a**. If you want to prove something take it to the drag strip where it is safe to do so.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

CrazyGuy said:


> Story time!
> 
> When I was five years old I can remember spending hours at a time just staring at women in underwear and bras in that big old Sears catalog. I loved taking my older sisters dolls and taking there cloths off. I always loved the shape of women even though I had no clue about sex. It was an innocent fascination.
> 
> My parents freaked though. Told me never touch a girl "here and there." As I got older and new about sex, I was told it was dirty something you should not do. So yes you can imagine I had a very conflicted view of myself in my teen years.


Ohhhhhh - I'd better take the VS catalog from my 3 year old son  He stares at it like it's a Disney movie!

I'm with you, I want my children to grow up with a healthy view of sex... Our children will one day grow up and have sexual relations. 

Right now, I'm watching my teenager go back and forth with her HS sweetheart. Poor guy drops everything when she calls him and we are not blind to what that is about!


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

CrazyGuy said:


> He is a great kid! He is only 10 and we are arguing about stuff that is going to happen in 6 years!
> 
> We have a classic mint condition Mustang GT stored in our garage for him. Same car I had in school. I am just going to tell him don't drive like an a**. If you want to prove something take it to the drag strip where it is safe to do so.


This reminds me of my first car. My step mom had a 1978 toyota celica that she bought brand new back in the day. In 1991, I was given this car. Within 6 months, it was totaled. I was going about 45 mph and I ran it into the back of a stopped 1966 cherry red mustang, totally restored. Sun was in my eyes. Everyone was happy I was okay, but they were sure pissed.


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## SecondTimesTheCharm (Dec 30, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> Ok, I was talking with my wife about our son when he gets older.
> 
> Her: We should instal one of those gps tracking devices in the car.
> 
> ...


Your wife sounds pretty uptight...what you said was pretty tame...I, too, would have gotten in trouble but would have probably been much more graphic.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

CrazyGuy said:


> When she was talking about the gps my son was there and she was joking. Saying it sucks to be you HaHaHa.
> 
> That is when I made the comment about installing the cams.
> 
> ...


Okay, that makes more sense then.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

We have all done crazy things in our teens....our first proper sexual encounter was probably in a car....remember?!!....!

I can remember driving along a road at over 100mph... looking back I cannot believe how stupid I was...the speed limit was (and still is) 40mph, and for good reason.

Armed with a driving licence, use of a car and sky high testosterone we think we are invincible. Fortunately most of us cam through our later teenage years unscathed.

Now we have children of our own we want to protect them from making the same 'mistakes' we made.

If my son wanted to try marijuana, I would much rather it was with me so that its in a 'safe' controlled environment....If my daughter wants to get 'intimate' with her boyfriend I would rather it was in her bedroom at home in a 'safe' environment. 
If I say 'not under this roof'....they will just go and do it elsewhere!
However...how many sons want to share a joint with their father? How many daughters would feel relaxed about getting 'intimate' at home knowing their parents were downstairs??..!!! Very few I imagine!

So all we can do is love them and educate them. AIDS and pregnancy is real and life changing, drink driving is real and life changing...the occasional joint doesn't hurt anyone...but if it leads to other more potent drugs, then that too is life changing.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> She is uptight about sex. I think I know why. I do not think I can change that for her. She is very controlling and manipulative.


Does your wife have any friends, or is she too anti-social? Does her family find her controlling and manipulative? If she is this way to everyone, then that will affect your strategies for dealing with her. If she gets along with others well, and it's just you that she dominates, then you need to look in the mirror.



CrazyGuy said:


> Sorry to all the advice to people that want me to man up or follow some other approach. I am just going to be me. So what? I do not care anymore if it ends in divorce.


I'm confused by this. You know that "being yourself" doesn't result in the kind of marriage you want. But you're not willing to change that. If you're unwilling to do the work required to have a good marriage, then I suggest one of two options. First, you could get some anti-depressants, try your best to be cheerful with your resentful wife, and not be surprised if and when she cheats on you or files for divorce. Or, second, you could just file for divorce and move on.

If your strategy is to do nothing and hope your wife is willing to decide to change the marriage, and then she is willing to do all the work to effect that change, then you're doomed to failure.

However, it's your life. If you believe an unhappy marriage is your best option, then commit to that unhappy marriage and relish your unhappiness.

Good luck.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> Thanks Cherry and bubbly girl.
> 
> Sometimes you got to inject humor into serious matters. I prefer to laugh then to cry or constantly be uptight about things that are just life's events.
> 
> I think although my wife appears to be trying at times the game is still going on.


I guess I'm the odd ball out. I actually agree with both of you. I believe that you have to inject humor into all parts of life, otherwise you will just shrivel up and die a miserable soul!!

On the other hand, if you are prone to be constantly making crude jokes, it's only natural after awhile to get an eye roll from the wife!!! Actually I laughed, not from the joke but more from the fact that my h would have probably said the same thing...and I would have probably rolled my eyes for the VERY same reason!!

IMO, I don't think w was reacting solely to that particular joke (which IMO was funny but definitely close to the line!!!) but to your overall behavior... especially if she thinks you are a "sex freak". For me, it does sometimes get tiring...but the behavior is expected and endearing (most of the time)  because that's who he is...I'm sure your w probably feels the same way. Ya sick SOB!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> Ok here is something I remember was taught way back in sex ed.
> 
> Teacher told us that a normal aspirin could be used as a form of berth control.
> 
> ...


:rofl::rofl::rofl::smthumbup:


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

2sick said:


> I guess I'm the odd ball out. I actually agree with both of you. I believe that you have to inject humor into all parts of life, otherwise you will just shrivel up and die a miserable soul!!
> 
> On the other hand, if you are prone to be constantly making crude jokes, it's only natural after awhile to get an eye roll from the wife!!! Actually I laughed, not from the joke but more from the fact that my h would have probably said the same thing...and I would have probably rolled my eyes for the VERY same reason!!
> 
> IMO, I don't think w was reacting solely to that particular joke (which IMO was funny but definitely close to the line!!!) but to your overall behavior... especially if she thinks you are a "sex freak". For me, it does sometimes get tiring...but the behavior is expected and endearing (most of the time)  because that's who he is...I'm sure your w probably feels the same way. Ya sick SOB!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:


My wife's reaction to my comments along these lines really depends on where we are in the relationship. Right now, we are in a real good place, so she rolls her eyes with a big smile and giggle, as well as a sparkle in her eye (yes, she is very talented to both sparkle and roll her eyes). She finds them endearing, and actually likes when I make the comments about her.

But when we are out of sync and not feeling the most attractive to each other, these comments go by like the proverbial lead ballon. The eye roll is followed by her ignoring me and/or changing the topic.


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> When she was talking about the gps my son was there and she was joking. Saying it sucks to be you HaHaHa.
> 
> That is when I made the comment about installing the cams.
> 
> ...


lol!!! THAT EXPLAINS IT!!! 5?!?!?:smthumbup::smthumbup:

Just joking. I agree with you 100%. You HAVE to be yourself AND feel comfortable being yourself, otherwise why did you get married! BUT YOU SHOULD CARE IF IT ENDS IN DIVORCE!!! Man up you sick sex freak man!!!


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> Ok, I was talking with my wife about our son when he gets older.
> 
> Her: We should instal one of those gps tracking devices in the car.
> 
> ...


Funny my H said the same thing thing about our son. LOL. The gps is a great idea.. I just laughed at him when he mention the cams =)


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

The last few posts on here are more like it! Get a life! Inject some humour into things!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Totally awesome! You passed that fitness test with flying colors!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Lol. Reminds me when my son was born. It looked like he had to take five years to grow into his penis. I turned to my wife and said..."wow! He's going to be very popular with the ladies!"

She gave me one of those looks, too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

i guess the high five part was a bit like approving of him 'nailing' someones daughter, and i cant believe a dad would allow some guy to defile his daughter in her own room, my goodness as the father of 3 girls and no boys i do have shotgun ready and a sharp knife


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Well, if jokes like that are going to cause offence life is going to be like a long car journey on a straight road.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

alphaomega said:


> Lol. Reminds me when my son was born. It looked like he had to take five years to grow into his penis. I turned to my wife and said..."wow! He's going to be very popular with the ladies!"
> 
> She gave me one of those looks, too!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I said a similar thing when my son was born. Then I added "who's baby is this? He did not get that thing from me."


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Ok I need to clarify some things because I think some people are not getting the picture.

After I joked to her about the cams, she called me a sick SOB that needed help. She repeated it twice. I am the one that rolled my eyes and walked away. The rest of the night she looked at me like I was a demon.

Marriage sex has been sexless for 17 years. I also did this. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/38449-giving-my-wife-nude-pictures-me.html

There is a long track record. It has taken its toll on me. I tried bending to what she wants. I tried to man up. I tried MC twice. I tried everything.

So that is why I say at this point I do not care anymore if this ends in divorce. I just want to be me without being judged all the time. We are both unhappy. I want us to both be happy, I am not sure that is possible while staying together.

I have worked the sexless marriage posts to death. I can not force her to be something she is not. It almost seems like she self destructs every part of our marriage. Not just the sex part. She married me years ago for who I was. She may say I need to grow up. No thank you, I missed 17 years of not living. I am going to be me. If she now hates me for that fine, there is the door. I am not going to pretend to be something I am not.

What I am is a hardworking guy who likes to have fun. I do not abuse anybody. I do not have any addictions to anything,porn,alcohol, ect. I do take anxiety meds that she says I am addicted to but there are obvious reasons why I need them. I have not cheated. I try to be the best dad. I have stayed in this marriage when a lot of men would have ran a long time ago. 

So please do not tell me I bad for "not caring." Sometimes the responsible thing is to let the crap hit the fan.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

nicky1 said:


> i guess the high five part was a bit like approving of him 'nailing' someones daughter, and i cant believe a dad would allow some guy to defile his daughter in her own room, my goodness as the father of 3 girls and no boys i do have shotgun ready and a sharp knife


I understand your point of view. 

Reality is though I remember a lot of daddy's girl's getting defiled in high school. You can tell them all sort of things, in the end there going to do what there are going to do.

I think that poster was saying that IF it does happen he rather have it done in a safe environment rather then sneaking out getting drunk at under age party ect. Kids will find a way.

I think most women have a more relaxed approach then men when it comes to the sex life of there daughters.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> I have worked the sexless marriage posts to death. I can not force her to be something she is not. It almost seems like she self destructs every part of our marriage. Not just the sex part. She married me years ago for who I was. She may say I need to grow up. No thank you, I missed 17 years of not living. I am going to be me. If she now hates me for that fine, there is the door. I am not going to pretend to be something I am not.


I'm glad you want to live for yourself now. However, I think you're still kidding yourself about fixing or ending your marriage. Your wife seems to be content in a sexless marriage and hounding you. I don't expect her to suddenly decide, with no changes on your part, that she's horny or civil.

So, if you don't like the status quo, which you say you don't, you have to change. You can either accept the status quo and be content with it, or you can improve yourself to try to better attract her, or you can hit the door. But all those scenarios require action on your part.

Good luck.


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## PaGuy (Feb 1, 2012)

CrazyGuy said:


> Ok, I was talking with my wife about our son when he gets older.
> 
> Her: We should instal one of those gps tracking devices in the car.
> 
> ...


Not really, your job as a parent is to keep your children safe and help make good decisions. Most GPS tracking is available on cell phones plans..


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> Ok, I was talking with my wife about our son when he gets older.
> 
> Her: We should instal one of those gps tracking devices in the car.
> 
> ...


:lol: :rofl: Oh come ON..that's funny as all hell! :smthumbup: If you hadn't said I would've!! 


Why do people take these things so damn SERIOUSLY? It was a JOKE!!

Your kids will be much more open and honest with you if you aren't uptight about sex. My 17 year old daughter and I have a great relationship because we are open and honest with each other and can talk candidly and honestly about sex. YES they are gonna have sex! Didn't you? 

When the time comes and my daughter decides to have sex I KNOW she is going to come to me and tell me because SHE KNOWS I'm NOT going to freak out on her! 

So many people become so prudish as they get older. *shakes head* Thank goodness I'm not part of that crowd.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

CrazyGuy said:


> "Put the aspirin between her knees, as long as she holds her knees together to hold the aspirin there she won't get pregnant"


She can if you turn her around and take her from behind.

Don`t you think it should be required that sex-ed teachers actually "have sex" before trying to teach about it?


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> The reply I would love to hear her say would be "lets go out for a drive and pretend we are 16 again." But that would happen when pigs fly.


:smthumbup: THAT would be cool! I'd love it if my husband said that to me!

Last weekend he said to me "what would you do if you were single..go out to bars and pick up guys?"

I said "Hey, that would a fun thing to do! We could pretend we don't know each other and got to bar and pick each other up and maybe go to a hotel."

He just looked at me like I was nuts. He was probably thinking that it would mean spending money, which is something he HATES to do. It's amazing how a man who inherits a million dollars can become so damn cheap. 

Not to mention that it would involve *gasp* having sex with me.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> We have a classic mint condition Mustang GT stored in our garage for him. Same car I had in school. I am just going to tell him don't drive like an a**. If you want to prove something take it to the drag strip where it is safe to do so.



:smthumbup: I knew I liked you. I owned 3 Mustang GT convertibles over a 10 year period. Two black '86 GTs and a red '91 GT...all convertibles. Both drag raced and road raced the '91, which had both a supercharged 5.0 and had a 351 Windsor. It also had a million other mods done to it. Unfortunately I sold it back in 2000. I now have a 2005 Jeep Wrangler that I've taken my daughter 4 wheeling with me over the years. It's lifted with 33s, etc, etc. My daughter used to tell me which rocks to go over as we wheeled. We had a ton of great times together in my Jeep. 

There's nothing like sharing your hobbies and passions with your kids. This week I'm taking my daughter skiing with me.  

I taught my daughter how to drive. She has a 2010 Nissan Cube. It's not fast but it's very, very safe with ABS and a zillion air bags, GPS, hands free cell phone, etc, etc. NO WAY was she getting my Jeep! I told her that after a year of driving and learning I would teach her to drive a stick and change the oil and tires.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

tacoma said:


> She can if you turn her around and take her from behind.


:rofl: :lol::rofl:


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

tacoma said:


> She can if you turn her around and take her from behind.
> 
> Don`t you think it should be required that sex-ed teachers actually "have sex" before trying to teach about it?


I was wondering how long it would be until somebody pointed this out. Ding ding you won.

I have though about trying that. See if my wife can keep that aspirin in position the hole time or if she would drop it eventually. She is not up for the challenge though. That would be just another sick thing perverted thing that I would want her to do. :crazy:


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> :smthumbup: I knew I liked you. I owned 3 Mustang GT convertibles over a 10 year period. Two black '86 GTs and a red '91 GT...all convertibles. Both drag raced and road raced the '91, which had both a supercharged 5.0 and had a 351 Windsor. It also had a million other mods done to it. Unfortunately I sold it back in 2000. I now have a 2005 Jeep Wrangler that I've taken my daughter 4 wheeling with me over the years. It's lifted with 33s, etc, etc. My daughter used to tell me which rocks to go over as we wheeled. We had a ton of great times together in my Jeep.
> 
> There's nothing like sharing your hobbies and passions with your kids. This week I'm taking my daughter skiing with me.
> 
> I taught my daughter how to drive. She has a 2010 Nissan Cube. It's not fast but it's very, very safe with ABS and a zillion air bags, GPS, hands free cell phone, etc, etc. NO WAY was she getting my Jeep! I told her that after a year of driving and learning I would teach her to drive a stick and change the oil and tires.


Not sure what to say. This can quickly become a car thread. But these posts are in the sex discussion part. Sex and cars do go well together.

That was my job for many years. I built go fast cars. It was my job to race them on a weekend as advertisements. Great way to ruin your hobby is to do it as a profession. Anyway my favorite POS I owned was a old bronco with 35's.

So you are a Freak and I am Crazy. Similar cars and from what you mentioned similar marital problems of neglect. Unfortunately all this is not uncommon. I have noticed more women posting here over the past few days. It is a shame our spouses can not wake up. It seems all so senseless. I try to avoid the posts by women that are in a similar position as me. I just do not understand other men that act that way so I do not know what advise to give them. But I do for you. Take that leash off and put it on your hubby. Lead him around for awhile. :smthumbup:


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

I hear what you are saying. There is no question that you should always be yourself irrespective of whether or how your w or ANYONE would judge you. The question is why do you feel like you can't be yourself and what were you when you got married? Were you pretending to be something besides yourself?

Regarding the sexless part. Have you asked her to go to sex counseling. Was she abused before? I can't understand not wanting to make love (notice I didn't say have sex) and share tenderness with the person I married? Even though you say you don't care...your comment about you wishing she would just hop in the car and act like a crazy teen says otherwise!


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> Not sure what to say. This can quickly become a car thread. But these posts are in the sex discussion part. Sex and cars do go well together.


Yes they can! You can have sex in the car! When my husband and I were together we shared a Honda Element. What a great car to have sex in! ALL the seats fold down! The shifter isn't even a problem! Wouldn't you have loved to have had that car in your teens? Not to mention that it's great for camping too!

NO my son is NOT getting that car! :rofl:



> That was my job for many years. I built go fast cars. It was my job to race them on a weekend as advertisements. Great way to ruin your hobby is to do it as a profession. Anyway my favorite POS I owned was a old bronco with 35's.


Nice job! :smthumbup:I'm in a similar situation in that I took a hobby I loved and made it into my business. I've always said "The one way to turn something you love into something you hate is to make a living doing it." 

But, I make pretty good money and am my own boss so I can't complain. 

What killed my car passion was the cost. The cost of travel and gas and the cost of beating up my Jeep on the rocks and the amount of time I had to dedicate to pursuing that hobby, maintaining the cars, etc. 

When my H and I separated my Jeep became the family car so now I do other hobbies like hiking, kayaking, skiing, camping, which the Jeep is perfect for!



> So you are a Freak and I am Crazy.


:rofl: :lol: That is too cool! "Freak on a Leash" is song by the rock group Korn. One of my favorites. 

Similar cars and from what you mentioned similar marital problems of neglect. Unfortunately all this is not uncommon. I have noticed more women posting here over the past few days. It is a shame our spouses can not wake up. It seems all so senseless. I try to avoid the posts by women that are in a similar position as me. I just do not understand other men that act that way so I do not know what advise to give them.[/quote]

I find that misery loves company. Or maybe it's the plethora of those DAMN Valentine Day commercials we are being subjected to contantly now!

We rejected women have always been here but we come out and support others like us when the posts come on. Sometimes I feels so alone and when I come here and read all these posts by everyone I realize that it really IS NOT me..that's it's him and that this is NOT an uncommon problem. But it's damn sad one..and complicated. 

I read so many saying "but I love him/her and don't want to divorce" after they spill out their hearts and emotions and feelings about the deepest rejection anyone who loves someone else can experience. 

I can accept a lot about my marriage but the sexual rejection is the one that cuts right to the bone. My husband doesn't understand but everyone here DOES, so that's why I come and pour out my hearts and try to tell others, "This is my story, you are NOT alone..it's not you!!"



> But I do for you. Take that leash off and put it on your hubby. Lead him around for awhile. :smthumbup:


Well..that sounds awesome but he would most definitely not be into being on THAT end of the leash. Now I rather like being tied up. Shhh..don't tell anyone!


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

2sick said:


> The question is why do you feel like you can't be yourself and what were you when you got married? Were you pretending to be something besides yourself?
> 
> Regarding the sexless part. Have you asked her to go to sex counseling. Was she abused before? I can't understand not wanting to make love (notice I didn't say have sex) and share tenderness with the person I married? Even though you say you don't care...your comment about you wishing she would just hop in the car and act like a crazy teen says otherwise!


No I was not pretending to be something else before we got married. She changed after marriage. From what I can tell she never was really into sex. (know that now) She thought she could change that in me. She made me feel guilty for who I was. I tried to adapt for her but I am what I am.

She was abused as a child but I do not think she is admitting the extent of the abuse. Yes I would love to make out like teens. Sexual urge though could be with any woman that looks good and is willing to act like they care about me. That may make me look bad but that is just how bad our marriage is. I am not the cheating kind of person though. She cancelled our MC sessions again. She never admitted to sexual abuse so she never got help. Signs do point that she was abused sexually.

I wish I was "in love" with her. I just am not. You can hear no only so many times. In her frustrations she has become abusive to me. I can say that I do care about her as a close friend though. She is a great mom ect. Not a good wife.

Becoming my old self is going to wreck all the progress she thinks she made. A lot of arguments in the future on there way. I would be relieved to be free again. I would be happy to fall back in love with my wife too. I do not see much of a chance of that happening though. I am just trying to move on one way or the other. The first thing to do is just work on myself and see what happens.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Sounds like she needs counseling badly and if she doesn't get it, you might want to look at a divorce lawyer. Or just stay and suck it up. How old are you? Is this something you want to deal with for the rest of your life? 

I will say that if I wasn't separated from my husband we would be in a MUCH worse place right now. I was in BAD shape right before the separation. It's what saved us in the end. Maybe you should think about separating?


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Sounds like she needs counseling badly and if she doesn't get it, you might want to look at a divorce lawyer. Or just stay and suck it up. How old are you? Is this something you want to deal with for the rest of your life?
> 
> I will say that if I wasn't separated from my husband we would be in a MUCH worse place right now. I was in BAD shape right before the separation. It's what saved us in the end. Maybe you should think about separating?


I am 39. We have been married 17 years. Yeah I am at that fork in the road. I agree with everything you are saying. Married people should be happy [email protected]# it. I feel like I wasted so much of my life already.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> I am 39. We have been married 17 years. Yeah I am at that fork in the road. I agree with everything you are saying. Married people should be happy [email protected]# it. I feel like I wasted so much of my life already.


I have almost 10 years on you and 23 years of marriage and I have to tell you that if she doesn't want to put out the effort and just makes excuse it will NOT get better, only worse. 

You have some serious decision making to do. 

My father stayed in an unhappy marriage with a cold, repressed woman. I kept telling him to leave and he made excuses as to why he couldn't right up to the day he died at 66 from cancer. Now it's too late. I often look at his life as an example of what NOT to do. 

Thing is, it's easy to separate physically. You get up and move out. But it's hard to separate emotionally. I've done the first part and am working on the second. Why? Because I don't want to look back and feel I've wasted my time. Do you?


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## 2sick (Nov 5, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> No I was not pretending to be something else before we got married. She changed after marriage. From what I can tell she never was really into sex. (know that now) She thought she could change that in me. She made me feel guilty for who I was. I tried to adapt for her but I am what I am.
> 
> She was abused as a child but I do not think she is admitting the extent of the abuse. Yes I would love to make out like teens. Sexual urge though could be with any woman that looks good and is willing to act like they care about me. That may make me look bad but that is just how bad our marriage is. I am not the cheating kind of person though. She cancelled our MC sessions again. She never admitted to sexual abuse so she never got help. Signs do point that she was abused sexually.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's sad! She REALLY DESPERATELY needs help! Although it is ultimately up to her, I truly think you need to sit her down and get her to go to individual counseling, because without it, it looks almost impossible to work through your marital problems. If she was sexually abused there is something that you are doing that is triggering her fear (not saying that ANY of that is your fault!!!)

If ya haven't figured out through ALL of my posts....I'm a hopeless romantic. If there is a spark of hope, I will ALWAYS say hold on and try and fix it. So, even though you are saying you are tired ( understandably so) and don't think you can take any more, you again said that you would be happy to fall back in love with w. As stupid as it may sound, you SHOULD try to go back to the person you were. Remember, that was the man she married. You may think, and she may have even said, that she didn't really love you, IMO it's just the fear of the abuse that is finally catching up to her.

Good luck and PLEASE try to calmly talk to her about seeing someone regarding her abuse!


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## jmsclayton (Sep 5, 2010)

*Re: I am a really sick SOB-crazyguy*

Responding to post in here. 

No I was not pretending to be something else before we got married. She changed after marriage. From what I can tell she never was really into sex. (know that now) She thought she could change that in me. She made me feel guilty for who I was. I tried to adapt for her but I am what I am.

Judith: women who have been abused -will hope the guy can change not realizing that they can chagne and like sex etc. She due to the abuse is struggling with how a guy responds to sex-she has seen it out of control and not knowing that it is normal for you to be like you are and that she doesnt understand when you are lacking -your drive goes up. Dont adapt. She needs to see healthy sex. She can heal with sex in sex and it usually happens there. Sex therapist and one who specializes in abuse-dont push her-she will go-is what she needs to heal with not regular mc counseling. 

She was abused as a child but I do not think she is admitting the extent of the abuse.

JUdith: SHe is afraid you will reject her.

Yes I would love to make out like teens. Sexual urge though could be with any woman that looks good and is willing to act like they care about me.

Judith: SHe is not going to understand that right now that being normal to her. YOu can let her know that if she wants to stay married to you-she needs to work on the sexual stuff. 

That may make me look bad but that is just how bad our marriage is. I am not the cheating kind of person though. She cancelled our MC sessions again. She never admitted to sexual abuse so she never got help. Signs do point that she was abused sexually.

Judith: She can heal from sex and in sex. IT is going to be you holding her and the memories coming up for her to work through it in sex because that is where most of it occurred. She needs to see gentle sex from you. YOu need support as you work through this. with her. 

I wish I was "in love" with her. I just am not. You can hear no only so many times. In her frustrations she has become abusive to me. I can say that I do care about her as a close friend though. She is a great mom ect. Not a good wife.

Judith: You need to stop the abusive behavior. Let her know what it is. She is probably struggling to differentiate betwen teh abuser and you. That is something women who have suffered abuse have to work through

Becoming my old self is going to wreck all the progress she thinks she made. A lot of arguments in the future on there way. I would be relieved to be free again. I would be happy to fall back in love with my wife too. I do not see much of a chance of that happening though. I am just trying to move on one way or the other. The first thing to do is just work on myself and see what happens. 

Judith: Are you dating her once a week wihtout sex? Yes you do need to work on you and the relationship somehow together the nonsexual one. YOu can fall back in love with her again but she needs to see the nonsexual relationship for now and nonsexual touch. 

Depends on what you mean by old self? 

Thoughts? 

Judith


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

CrazyGuy, I am responding to your comment in BKG's thread that your W seems to have most BPD traits at a strong level. I agree that the behaviors you describe are consistent with most of those traits.


CrazyGuy said:


> She made me feel guilty for who I was.


If she is a BPDer (i.e., a person with moderate to strong BPD traits), she has a death grip on the false notion that she is a perpetual "victim." Being unwilling to let go of that false self image, she desperately needs you to play the role of "perpetrator" so as to validate her role of being the eternal "victim." This is why a BPDer will blame her spouse for every misfortune that befalls her. As "perpetrator," you will be blamed for everything, becoming the trash can in which she can dispose of all her guilt and shame by simply projecting them onto you.

I note that the vast majority of BPDers "act out" when you trigger their anger. This is why temper tantrums and rages are a hallmark of BPDers. Your descriptions of your W's behavior, however, do not mention a frequent occurrence of such temper tantrums. I therefore note that, if your W is a BPDer, she likely is the type that "acts in," turning her anger inward. But this does not mean that you escape punishment. Instead, it only means that her method of punishing you will take the form of cold withdrawal and passive aggressive remarks. 

I mention this because, if your W is a BPDer who "acts in" more frequently than "acting out," it is difficult to find information about these BPDers online if you don't know what to look for. In this case, your W would be what therapist Shari Schreiber calls a "waif" BPDer. Schreiber describes this waif-like behavior at BORDERLINE WAIFS AND UNSUNG HEROES; Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved.. Mahari also describes these folks at Borderline Personality - The Quiet Acting In Borderline and The Silent Treatment - Nons - Borderline Personality Disorder Inside Out. Mahari refers to them as "quiet BPDers," a term I like better than Schreiber's term. I suggest you take a look at both of those articles. The other articles at those two websites are excellent also.


> I still love her, she is my sons mother......I realize it is not the husband/wife type of love. It is more of a grown up loving the child type of love.


This statement -- which I found in your "Nude Pictures" thread -- is especially insightful. You clearly recognized that your relationship with your W has, for 17 years, been a parent-child relationship. This sad reality is so easily explained -- if your W is a BPDer -- because the emotional development of BPDers typically is frozen at the level of a 3 or 4 year old child.


> She was abused as a child but I do not think she is admitting the extent of the abuse.


Most abused children grow up without developing strong BPD traits. Such abuse, however, GREATLY raises the risk for doing so. This is especially true for sexual abuse, which is strongly associated with the development of BPD traits. The result is that 70% of BPDers report having been abused or abandoned in childhood.


> Becoming my old self is going to wreck all the progress she thinks she made.


After walking on eggshells for 17 years to avoid triggering her anger, it is easy to forget what your "old self" was. I nonetheless believe you will be surprised at how fast your old self returns now that you've started standing up to her -- instead of allowing her to get away with acting like a spoiled four year old.


> The first thing to do is just work on myself and see what happens.


CrazyGuy, if your W has strong BPD traits -- as you believe -- the MC likely will be a waste of time because her issues are far more serious than a lack of communication skills. What she would need, instead, would be at least several years of intensive IC by a clinical psychologist skilled in treating BPDers. Sadly, there is very little chance she will be willing to do that.

With respect to you, CrazyGuy, if you've been living with a BPDer W for 17 years, you almost certainly are an "excessive caregiver" just like me. That is, your desire to help others is so great that you will keep doing it even when it is to your great detriment to do so. Like me, your desire to be needed (for what you can do) likely far exceeds your desire to be loved (for the man you already are). I therefore applaud your current effort to build much stronger personal boundaries and to start taking far better care of yourself.

Finally, I suggest that you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest BPD site that is targeted solely to the partners and spouses of BPDers. It is so large that there are 8 separate message boards. Two of those boards likely will be especially helpful to you. One is the "Leaving a BPDer" board and the other is the "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD." But please don't forget about us here at the TAM forum. Many members will continue to benefit from your shared experiences. And there are many of us who want to keep responding to your questions as long as you find our input helpful.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

:lol:

I would have laughed. Kids are kids!


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

Thank you Uptown,

There are a lot of things I have left out of my posts. I do not enjoy talking negatively about her. I learned to watch what I say, I am always worried that it will come back at me all twisted around. For instance she told me "if sex is so important to you why don't you find somebody else you can screw." She now tells everybody that I said that I asked her if I can find somebody to play around with. Was not my idea to start with, but even in arguments she will bring that up like it was.

She is not physically violent to me. However she loves to slam things around. Currently we have a door for our bathroom with a broken door frame. She slammed it as hard as she could. When she did this I told her "O yeah that makes a lot of sense, maybe you can break it and give me something else to fix." So she opened and slammed the door repeatedly until it broke. In the past she has broken kitchen drawers. I do not think those were broke on purpose. But they were broke because she was angry and slammed them shut.

I myself am not perfect. It makes her angry if I remain calm. She will push my buttons to get a reaction from me. On two occasions in 17 years I lost it and threw the remote for the TV at the wall. In mater of fact this made me realize that most of our arguments are when we should be relaxed and just chilling together. I get an uneasy feeling when we are just sitting around as a family watching tv. Kind of ok here we are now, everything is fine, this might be the calm before the storm. What is going to happen on the tv show that will make her think about something?

I do not want people thinking I am married to a b*&ch. It is not all bad. There are good memories too. She can be very thoughtful......at times. That's whats makea things so difficult. The roller coaster ride. But even the good times she seems to limit how much affection she gives. If things are too good she will bail on me completely. Vacation to the Bahamas 9 years ago was the first vacation we did not go together. She did not want to go. Everything was paid for no refund so I went without her. It seems like she does the bare minimum to keep me holding on.

In the past she tried to get help at many different doctors, psychologist ect. But she does not stick it out, she does not like the answers. I have been told by friends that know us that she acts like she is bipolar. In fact at one time years ago she was told that professionally. Got some meds, took them for a while, did not do much to help but make her feel funny. So she stopped taking them and did not go back.

Anything I do to try and correct this marriage is wrong. She says I am playing the victim. Any book she reads on the subject of marriage she stops. She does not like what they have to say. She does not like what the marriage counselor says. That stopped again too,the next visit he was going to address the lack of sex concern.(once a year)

So a few weeks ago we were having sex on a regular basis, but it stopped because it was that time of the month. Well that time is long past but things are clear when she comes in to the bed at night, she leaves the door wide open.

We argued the other night. The photos came up. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/38449-giving-my-wife-nude-pictures-me.html I asked her why she thought they were so disgusting? Why we do not have sex more often? Why do you see sex as a bad thing? She told me she enjoyed the sex we had lately but that is just not her.

Her: I just can not do it every day, I am not like you.

Me: How about every other day?

Her: No way.

Me: Twice a week?

Her: Long pause, "your $%%6 was small in those pictures thats why I hate them. You looked pathetic and desperate.

Me: Yeah I guess I am desperate once a year and all. Why is sex such a big problem for you, what happened?

Her: Nothing happened that I know of but my mom seems to know things, I do not know what, but I do not remember anything. I think she is just trying to mess with my head. You have too much importance on sex. I always knew that about you but I thought once we got married I could change that. Why is sex so important to you?

Me : Well we are married. I can only get that from you. We should be close like that. You got to realize by now that once a year is not near being normal in a marriage. Sex is also a big stress reducer for me. Nothing is solved. Do you think stopping MC was a good idea. 

Her : Do not blame your stress on me. I am tiered of you always pretending you are the victim.

Me : Yeah Ok, Well we will see who plays victim soon enough....End of argument.

What I know her moms marriage was the same way. Except she was married to a prick. Her mom is also very critical of any criticism. None of her kids talk to her much because of this, in fact nobody in her family gets along well at all with each other. It is like a bunch of mean dogs going after each other.

The following day after the argument she goes out and gets a hair cut. She dyes her hair red for the first time. She knows from a long time ago when we were just friends that I have a thing for redheads. She has bean pleasant for her but not affectionate. Sex is off the table.

I think that from what I gather is she will not get real help unless i leave her? Even then she may not get it? But my best chance is at this point for my own happiness is to leave? Surly not happy now. Thoughts? Thanks. I did not have time to read your links yet.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I think you're correct. She has staked her position. She wants a sexless marriage and is unwilling to budge. You have to decide whether you will accept that.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

CrazyGuy said:


> She now tells everybody that I said that I asked her if I can find somebody to play around with. Was not my idea to start with, but even in arguments she will bring that up like it was.


CrazyGuy, if your W is a BPDer, you should expect that she often will rewrite history. That's what BPDers typically do. It's not limited to completely twisting something that you actually said. They also will "remember" your saying something that you never even commented on. This occurs because, like young children, BPDers rely heavily on projection to protect their fragile egos from seeing too much of reality. 

Projection works beautifully to protect the ego because it works entirely at the subconscious level, allowing the BPDer to consciously believe the projection reflects truth and reality. Hence, when a BPDer has a selfish bad thought, she is able to fully escape the guilt by "projecting" the thought onto you -- i.e., immediately believing that you are the one thinking of doing the bad thing. With my exW, for example, I could almost read her mind by listening to the various mean things she was accusing me of thinking or wanting to do.


> She loves to slam things around. Currently we have a door for our bathroom with a broken door frame. She slammed it as hard as she could.


My exW is the same way. Indeed, it was a door slamming incident that ended our marriage. While she was having a temper tantrum, she chased me about the apartment and I took refuge behind a door in a bedroom. While she was slamming the door against the wall, I pushed her away from it, causing her to fall backwards. And, because she was on blood-thinner meds, she immediately had bruises where my hands had pressed hard against her chest. 

Seeing a good opportunity to be rid of me, she called the police and had me arrested and thrown in jail. Because it was early on a Saturday morning, I had to sit in jail nearly three days before I could go before a judge. That was plenty of time for her to obtain a restraining order that prevented me from returning to my own home for 18 months -- the time it takes to get a divorce in this State.


> Most of our arguments are when we should be relaxed and just chilling together.... If things are too good she will bail on me completely.


With a BPDer, the _worst _arguments typically start immediately following the _best_ of times, e.g., after an intimate evening or great weekend spent together. Because the intimacy makes the BPDer feel engulfed and suffocated, she will create an argument -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. 

In her mind, however, the argument is fully justified because, subconsciously, she is projecting all sorts of evil intent onto you. Given the way a BPDer will turn on you like this with great sincerity and conviction that she is right, it is not surprising that BPDers are notorious for making their spouses feel like they are going crazy.


> Vacation to the Bahamas 9 years ago was the first vacation we did not go together. She did not want to go. Everything was paid for no refund so I went without her.


When you are married to a BPDer, expensive vacations are one of the things you quickly learn to give up. As I said, a BPDer tends to behave the worst immediately following an intimate time spent together, so vacations have a good chance of turning into disasters. With my exW, I found that it was ludicrous to be spending $400/day on vacation to hear her throwing a tantrum. I could do that for free back at home. Generally, she ruined about half of the vacations we took. All it took to set her off was a glance, a tone of voice, or a misinterpreted comment.


> It is not all bad. There are good memories too. She can be very thoughtful......at times. That's whats makes things so difficult. The roller coaster ride.


A BPDer's problem is not in being BAD but, rather, in being UNSTABLE. As in the Longfellow poem, "...when she was good, she was very, very good, but when she was bad she was horrid."


> I have been told by friends that know us that she acts like she is bipolar. In fact at one time years ago she was told that professionally.


Perhaps so. But your description of her is far more consistent with BPD traits, not bipolar traits. I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found several clear differences between the two disorders.

One difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. 

A second difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours).

A third difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. 

A fourth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly.

Finally, a sixth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period -- even though they sometimes may claim otherwise. This lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when a person does not trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will. 

Yet, despite these six clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. One source of this confusion seems to be the fact that a substantial portion of BPD sufferers (about 25%) also have the bipolar disorder.


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