# Not Built to Forgive ?



## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

I need some advice as I am having problems in my marriage and feel it is closing quickly to the end.

My husband was unfaithful before we got married. I didn't know about it until 2 years later, cause I noticed he didn't seem emotionally connected so I started investigating. I told him many times when first dating to NEVER break my trust, I hold that close to my heart. I wasn't ever able to let go of the unfaithfulness in 2 other relationships I was in (those were in High School).

Quick Timeline:
We met in 2000
Married in 2005
- he was unfaithful with a co-worker and the reason was it was a mistake and he was drunk.
2007 - he seemed emotionally distant and I would ask what was going on and he would say work was stressful he had a bad day just general reasons. Intimacy went down of course and I asked he about that and he said the stress was making him tired.
I gave him his space and trusted him that things would pass and get better. They would and wouldn't.
2008 - 2009 Start noticing facebook post on the co-workers photos and compliments he was giving her (I wasn't getting very many). I questioned him on that and he said he was sorry and it didn't mean anything. I didn't believe him and that I when I found a whole bunch of things out.
2007 - he was on 3 different adult sites
2008 - there is another girl that comes into the picture - he says he met her before me but he was asking her to meet up for "fun".
2009 - Everything came out - he NEVER explained any of it.
But I decided to give him a chance and see if we can work through things. 
2010-2012 - basically became emotionally and verbally abusive
2012 - here we are 3 years later and there is so much sadness / resentment / unhappiness / you name it it is there.

So my question becomes - are there some people that just can't forgive? Not that you can't move on but it is something that means a lot to have and when it is broken it can't be fixed with the person who broke it?

Open to other questions if more detail is needed on the relationship.

Thanks - Sad


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Don't be so hard on yourself. The things you listed are a LOT to forgive.
Personally I don't think i ever really mastered the forgiveness ability.When you mess up with me,I'm usually done or the love i had isn't ever the same or nearly as strong.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

It just hurts so much that he turns the blame on me that I didn't try hard enough. I REALLY did want it to work. But he never wanted to be open about what happened (not until last night which then some more excuses were he doesn't remember he let it go). So he blames me for not wanting to just let it go. I told him we were going in the right direction at one point and there isn't a set time limit for forgiving it comes with time. But apparently I wasn't fast enough for his timeline. But he screwed that up with becoming verbally and emotionally abusive.

I couldn't do anything right!

Got my hair colored the wrong color.
I shoveled the snow on the drive way wrong.
I have no "common sense"
I don't think thing through - I just do
I have dreams that are unreachable.
(I want 2 to 3 kids / pets and a house)
Raising he voice and swearing are NORMAL ways to communicate to him - if you don't like it oh well.

I just don't understand. I pretty sure I am not crazy!


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself. The things you listed are a LOT to forgive.
> Personally I don't think i ever really mastered the forgiveness ability.When you mess up with me,I'm usually done or the love i had isn't ever the same or nearly as strong.












This....love isn't a one way street, it takes two for it to be strong. It also takes two repair IMHO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Long list of resentment. Resentment is poison in a marriage. The cure for resentment is forgiveness. When we forgive we actually gift ourselves more than the person we forgive.

What do you want?


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

If he cheated and it was a truly ONE TIME MISTAKE. I believe in my heart I could forgive him and we could have moved on and been strong or stronger. I felt love / compassion / supported. 

I just think I can't keep forgiving cause it is costing me my emotions.


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## Ano (Jun 7, 2012)

They say that forgiveness is a choice. By not forgiving, we are hurting ourselves more then its affecting the person who caused the pain.

I too struggle with resentment and forgiveness issues. Its been 2 years and 9 months and I still am in a hurtful place inside. 

I rug swept...I didn't deal with the reality of things until maybe 6 months to a year ago...and now I'm finally facing everything.

I want to forgive. I really really want to let it go. But I don't know how.

People may forget what you said.
People may forget what you did.
People will always remember how you made them feel.

Hang in there. It does get easier. I've come a long way since the beginning...and I still have a looonnnggg way to go.

I'm still so hurt and angry, but when I stop and think back to where I was before, it gives me faith to know that I have made so much progress. 

Trust will never be the same. The relationship will never be the same. And that's what kills me. That's what's killing us. Some weeks are great...and then other weeks I'm on a roller coaster of resentment and angry and depression.

I don't know that we will make it to the end. But there is too much invested into this to give it up without a fight.

My husband used to be like yours..he used to get angry when I felt like I needed to talk about it. He used to say "what do you want me to do about it, I cant change it"...and that hurt. That made me scared to open up about my feelings when I was stuck in that dark place. That made it worse that I had to hold everything inside and couldn't talk to him.

We were done at that point. It wasn't until he started to understand that I wasn't asking him to turn back time and fix his mistakes when I needed to talk about it. All I needed was for him to listen and not get defensive. 

I can't even begin to tell you how much it helped me, helped us...once he started to listen. I didn't see how remorseful he was until this point. Calming and sadly telling me that this was the biggest mistake of his life, that he wishes he could go back and change it, and that he will do whatever it takes to to make this right. Those words changed everything. Those words gave me hope.

Now when I'm having a sad/depressed day...I will talk and he will listen. He doesn't get defensive and angry. He tells me that he is here and we will get through this together. And that has helped tremendously. (Note: when I talk about it, I dont throw it in his face, choose your words wisely. Dont use it against him, just tell him how you are feeling and how he can help).

I still hurt. I still have days and even week long spouts of resentment and depression. But I promise you that if you can get your husband to listen and reassure you that he is here to help and fix his mistake, your hope in this marriage will increase.

Good luck sweetie and stay strong!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Sad,

As you've pointed out, there is more going on here than just the previous cheating.

He's emotionally and verbally abusive
He's constantly critical of all you do (controlling)

Seems like 3 strikes to me


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

You gave him a chance and it didn't work out. Time to bail on the relationship.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Ano - I have HUGE doubts that he will listen. I feel I have done everything I could. We went to a counseling session and he did go so that was a step in the right direction. But he really didn't want to be there and when the counselor suggested extensive communication sessions at $150 a piece for 10-12 session, my husband on the way home said it seemed "pricey" and we don't have the money.

How hurt I felt hearing him say that straight up meant "I don't want to work on things". Apparently, he assumed things would just magically get better with out real work.

Like you said you have up and down days and sometimes a period of a week. Mine doesn't understand that is part of the healing process. I told him he could be more supportive and nice. But I just get the false hopes.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

sad_angel said:


> I need some advice as I am having problems in my marriage and feel it is closing quickly to the end.
> 
> My husband was unfaithful before we got married. I didn't know about it until 2 years later, cause I noticed he didn't seem emotionally connected so I started investigating. I told him many times when first dating to NEVER break my trust, I hold that close to my heart. I wasn't ever able to let go of the unfaithfulness in 2 other relationships I was in (those were in High School).
> 
> ...


Forgiving a person for one instance of infidelity, being it a mistake or whatever, is fine. It gets harder and harder after continuous incidents of betrayal. 

Sounds to me like you forgave him once, and he kept betraying your trust over and over again. What is that old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Something like that. Sounds to me like he's just not trustworthy anymore to you so forgiving is not so easy now. Whose fault is that? Who betrayed the trust here?


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

sad_angel said:


> If he cheated and it was a truly ONE TIME MISTAKE. I believe in my heart I could forgive him and we could have moved on and been strong or stronger. I felt love / compassion / supported.
> 
> I just think I can't keep forgiving cause it is costing me my emotions.


They are choices.
I think you are forgiving considering the amount of time you have put into the relationship giving him more trust after he has lied to you.
I will tell you from experience being a cheater in my past relationship that once you do those things, your whole attitude changes towards the person you are with. I was always on edge and irritable with my life. Was it good before i had done what i did, in a sense. I wasnt full of outbursts and attitude and bitterness. I couldnt ever get past the fact that i had done that because i wanted a different life, all the while i kept trying to tell myself that i had wanted it. NOPE! (for me anyways).

I hope that you can tell him thigns need to change, you are going to give it a little more time and then maybe start a trial seperation and see where his feelings lye then!


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## rks1 (Jan 27, 2012)

I wouldn't want to waste another minute of my life with a spouse who thinks cheating is acceptable. I don't know why you tolerate it. It doesn't make sense to me to accept his cheating, and then spend years stewing and getting angry at him about it. When you found out about the cheating and saw that he really didn't even care about how you felt... that would have been the time to have said "You are so not worth my time and my life" and packed your bags and left. If you choose to stay with someone like that, then I don't know what kind of advice anyone can offer you. I believe in trying to stick through a marriage... but infldelity and abuse are intolerable. It is one thing if your spouse was begging for forgiveness the first time it happened, and took every step to ensure that cheating would never happen again. It's entirely different to continue to cheat and not even care about the fact that he is destroying you, without any remorse. If you don't see yourself as being worth more than to deserve that and still want to stay with him, then I don't really have much more to add.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I’m one who fundamentally believes in forgiveness. But you are living with a man who has massively betrayed you not just the once but on a number of occasions.

The really big thing here is that he hasn’t shown you any remorse for the things he’s done or empathy and compassion for your situation. These things make the betrayals so very much worse.

And on top of all that he hasn’t apologised and isn’t at all willing to work with you to regain your trust.

To be perfectly honest I simply can’t see how you can forgive him. I think you are probably hanging onto everything because you fear a repeat performance and that’s why you wont forgive and give him your trust again.

Sometimes these things in marriage or not fixable no matter how much you want them to be. The man you are with is not stepping up to the plate with you. You know that for a fact now. What more do you need to know about him in order to let him go and start rebuilding your life?


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## Ano (Jun 7, 2012)

We never went to counseling, though I think that it would help us very much if we did.

I was gone. I was leaving. I took our son and stayed at my moms for a week. I text him and told him that he can come pick our son up to visit. When he came, he didn't leave with our son. He stayed and hung out...and after a while asked if we wanted to go get ice cream. I agreed. We didn't talk about anything...just small talk and played with our son. When we got back to my mothers, he asked if I was going to come back home. And I did that night.

It took me leaving for him to understand that I wasnt asking him to move mountains. All I needed from him was love and support and for him to listen when I needed it.

I don't know if you have any kids..or if that makes a difference in working harder to fix things.

But I will say this....

My father worked out of the state/country for most of my childhood. My parents eventually split because of it. 

My dad is a tough, emotionless, stubborn Italian man. But he will tell you that he lost his family over his job that he was unwilling to quit. He was hard headed and stubborn and told my mom that if he ever leaves his job, it will be because he wanted to and not because a woman asked him to.

Now when I was going through this mess, my dad was the first person I went to. And his advice to me:

How important is this family to you? Do you want this? Do you want this to work?

Of course I answered yes.

He told me.. then its worth the risk. Its worth trying as hard as you can. It might not work, but if this is important to you, then giving up and throwing it all away is not an option. No matter how bad it gets, you go till there is nothing left.


So Sad, do you truly feel like there is nothing left at this point?

Do you want this to work? And have you given it the fight of your life?

Are you prepared to walk away and truly know in your heart that you gave this every last drop of energy in your body to make this work?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yes, there are people who cannot forgive. 

Nobody ever forgets.

If you are unhappy with him and do not see him making moves to show you he is committed to you, divorce him. 

He is a serial cheater. That is the worst kind.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks AFEH
I don't know what I am hanging on to cause I know it isn't a marriage without love / trust / communication. Right now all three are missing.
I just don't know what it is that I fear or why I can't say this is it.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Ano,

We don't have children currently. This has been another emotional issue. As the doctors have said I probably wont get pregnant on my own. That I'll need InVitro or along those lines. My husband says he is ready for children but just wants to have them naturally as he is convinced that we don't have the money for Adoption or InVitro.

That breaks my heart cause I believe if you have the will you will find away. I asked him before getting married how he felt about adoption and he said he would consider it. His exact words to me at one point last year was "I don't want to raise someone else child".

Great - glad we discussed this.

The other thing he does and stated last night that in his eyes is OK to do is raise his voice and yell. If I have something to say I am going to say it, if that means raising my voice and yelling then fine by me.

I explained to him that is disrespectful and how can he expect me to be open to talking when he is YELLING!!?!?!? He basically told me to get over it and deal with it that is how he is.

I am sorry -- if you truly love someone you show them respect. You don't yell and not listen to them.

He makes me CRAZY!!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> My husband was unfaithful before we got married. I didn't know about it until 2 years later





> h2007 he was on 3 different adult sites
> 2008 - there is another girl that comes into the picture - he says he met her before me but he was asking her to meet up for "fun".
> 2009 - Everything came out - he NEVER explained any of it.





> 2010-2012 - basically became emotionally and verbally abusive





> I couldn't do anything right!
> 
> Got my hair colored the wrong color.
> I shoveled the snow on the drive way wrong.
> ...





> I asked him before getting married how he felt about adoption and he said he would consider it. His exact words to me at one point last year was "I don't want to raise someone else child".





> I explained to him that is disrespectful and how can he expect me to be open to talking when he is YELLING!!?!?!? He basically told me to get over it and deal with it that is how he is.
> 
> I am sorry -- if you truly love someone you show them respect. You don't yell and not listen to them.




This man, from what you have shared here....is NOT worthy of "forgiveness". When we forgive, the one who has wronged us time & time again -through actions & hurtful words ...is ashamed of their actions and wants to make it right...wants to soothe and heal the hurt they caused,going out of their way trying to make up for the wrongs. They don't make excuses, and turn around and belittle more so...what you are clearly describing here. 

Sometimes we need to forgive someone for our own sanity and health of our souls.. .but we don't require that we invite them back into our lives to keep demeaning and hurting us.... We love ourselves enough to move on from people such as these.....wish them well... but with another. 

We all yearn to be in a loving relationship where we are respected, listened too, with faithfulness behind their words. He has proven he is not this sort of man...lying , hiding, trying to hook up with other women- then refusing to talk about it ... there is no transparency there ..... he speaks out of 2 sides of his mouth regarding children in the future, he has as much told you - live with the way he is -cause he ain't changing (the yelling & swearing). 

You can't change a man like this... you can't make him love & respect you.......you can only pick yourself up off the ground, realize you deserve better than this.. .and leave him.


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## Ano (Jun 7, 2012)

> Ano,<br />
> <br />
> We don't have children currently. This has been another emotional issue. As the doctors have said I probably wont get pregnant on my own. That I'll need InVitro or along those lines. My husband says he is ready for children but just wants to have them naturally as he is convinced that we don't have the money for Adoption or InVitro.<br />
> <br />
> ...


This is a tough situation. It seems like a no win situation. Do you have anywhere you can go? Parents or siblings house? Maybe if you leave for a while it will knock him back to reality. If he doesn't seem like hes willing to change, then it might time to call it quits.

I'm sorry.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

I know I am probably beating a dead horse at this point. I am just so confused between my mind that wants to believe he will change and be the man I thought he was and my heart that says there are things in this relationship that are just not right and I DO deserve better.

There is another thing he has brought up in the past two arguments and he has said that I should have told him is was being an ass and saying hurtful things. I didn't call him out on it ALL the time but I did on many occasions. I don't understand why he is thinking and saying it was my responsibility to tell him he was being hurtful?!?!?!

Or is it just another redirection away from the real issue?

I think it you love someone you don't intentionally hurt them and say hurtful things. I know people get upset but to do it over and over and over again.


Ano - I do have my parents I can go too.


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## Ano (Jun 7, 2012)

You should go to your parents for a few days and see how he reacts.

And not to defend your husband...because I am NOT defending him. But, I have myself asked my husband to point it out to me when I get crabby. And I do it to him as well. Sometimes we don't even realize that we are being rude and we need to be stopped in our tracks. I know I am guilty of it. We never degrade each other or anything like that but when one of us is in a bad mood, we'll say to each other "why are you being so crabby, its not necessary". Sometimes pointing it out is enough to shake the mood off. At least for me. It stops me and makes me ask myself "why am i"...then I collect my thoughts and 97% of the time I lose my attitude.

I'm not a yeller but my hubs tends to yell sometimes..and when he does, I say "why are you yelling? You don't need to yell"... and he quickly changes his tone.


I can see there is still hope in you. I would recommend getting away for a while. Give yourself time to think about what you want. And give himself time to decide if he's gonna be more understanding or continue to be heartless. After all, he is the one who made this mess...and if he wants this to work, he needs to be willing to do -whatever it takes-.

If he persists on seeing you while you are at your parents, go to dinner with him..and then go back to your parents house afterwards.

He has a lot of work to do. Dont go home with him and let him get off easy. Make him realize that unless he changes, this is over.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Ano,

I am not 100% sure that there is nothing left. But I think what is left isn't enough to rebuild on. I was just thinking earlier in the week that it is weird how there are these serious issues and problems of the marriage yet it is strange how we are not arguing more. I am usually the one that is reactive to him. So as long as he is playing nice then I will. Maybe that is just an understanding we have. 

I just think it is strange / weird.

I did want to work it out in 2009 and I couldn't "get over it" in HIS time frame. I honestly think that is what he believes. Since he has mentioned numerous times how much he has tried to fix all this. But his "fixing" was to ignore it, try to be Super Sweet Guy and it would all go away.

I got to the point after a few months that I was so depressed that I talked to him about how I felt I should talk to the doctor about going on antidepressants. His comment was you don't need those. It will get better. 

I am not perfect - I probably shouldn't have listened to him and went to the doctor. Could that have helped the situation - maybe.
I probably shouldn't have held all the emotions in and been more open to talking. But he hasn't ever made me feel like I could. If someone that is suppose to LOVE you, how can they judge you. So overall I guess I feel I could have done things to help more. 

But I also know that I just never had the true feeling that he was trying and wanted it to work out. He doesn't understand what he did and refuses to.


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## Ano (Jun 7, 2012)

I also suggested aand antidepressants for myself..and my husband said the same thing as yours -- that I didn't need them.

In my personal situation I also had trouble opening up about my feelings because I got shut down every time. My husband even went as far as to tell me that I am trying to manipulate him and trying to make him feel bad...when all I was doing was pouring out my heart to him. 

Essentially it was ALL about him. Even though he was the one who messed this up to begin with... he was still in a VERY selfish state of mind. 

Like I said previously, it took me taking a stand against him for him to realize that I wasn't kidding. I needed this fixed or I needed to leave. That's when he changed.

It takes a lot of patience and work to get through this. Its a lot of heartache every day. I wouldn't wish this kind of pain and drawn own agony on my worst enemy. I haven't reached the end of the road...not even close. But I am certain that time (patience) heals most everything over time.

How much time? I don't know. All I know is things have gotten better for me....and worse at times...but the better out weighs the bad at this point. So I'm getting there. And you can too.

You said there may not be enough left of you guys to build on now. That may be so. I know if there wasn't a child involved, I would not have given him a second chance.

The decision is yours and yours alone.

Follow your heart.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

How can you forgive someone who doesn't appear to think they've done anything wrong? He's betrayed you, shows an apparent lack of remorse, blames you and is emotionally / verbally abusive.

If you want to work on this marriage, OP, I would suggest MC.


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