# A couple of questions



## k.m (May 18, 2009)

I've posted here before. I'm sure it looks like I'm not taking any of the advice that you're giving, but I do take it in, and it does make a difference.

I have been going to a counselor for a few months. I have come to understand that I am not without fault in the problems in my marriage.

HOWEVER, I have 2 questions today - about things that I read a lot on the internet while looking for advice: 

1) Women are often advised, if they have a moody or angry husband, to be pleasant and sweet to them. Really? Don't I get to be angry without him getting angry BECAUSE I'm angry (esp. when I'm angry at yet another broken promise or lie)? Why does it seem that the responsibility for helping the marriage remain "pleasant" falls on the person who is far less often UNpleasant? Okay - I know the answer to this is that I don't have to -- but if I want the marriage pleasant, I need to be the one to start. Just seems incredibly unfair to me, today.

2) Women are often advised to stop treating their husbands like children if they want them to stop acting like children. Really? If the guy REQUIRES the direction, guidance, motivation and discipline that I am forced to give him, else he won't GET ANYTHING DONE, I'm just supposed to stop, and pick up all the slack myself?

I know, I know -- I have a choice. I can leave. I just want him to be the PERSON HE COULD BE if he exerted a little effort. I really WANT to love him, and respect him, and stay in the marriage and have it be good. It feels like I do all the work. I guess I want my payoff for that work (respect, joy, appreciation, love, affection, sharing of the burdens).

Guess I'm just venting. Due to my counseling, there's some guilt on my part, today. I got mad at him for (once again) breaking a promise to me. He then lapsed into his, oh, i'm so depressed (and, just for fun, I'm also sick!) routine. I can never tell if this resulting response is anger at me for getting mad at him (for his f*ckup), or guilt over his f*ckup, and he never SAYS a goddamn thing about why he's behaving the way he does, so I have to guess. I get so mad at his exacerbating the situation (rather than apologizing and NOT breaking more promises) that I just avoid interacting with him, because it'll either be a fight or self-pity on his part. So we sit in the house together and don't talk.

I just don't get why, when HE has broken the promise, that I'm not allowed/expected to be angry about that, and why HE then gets to act like a friggin' baby. And why, if he acts like a baby, he shouldn't expect to be treated like a child.

Glad this forum is here to accept my spewage. Hope I can figure out how to deal with this cr*p soon. Wish I cared so little that I could walk away.

I'm learning about "disputing my irrational beliefs," and I know that the above thinking is riddled with irrational beliefs. They're very heavily ingrained in me, and it's hard to pick them out and dispute them. I also know that my 1) anger at him and 2) inability to truly accept responsibility for MY PART in this is a defensive reaction, the result of years of being disrespected. 

That last paragraph is the rational side of me. The emotional side of me is SO MUCH STRONGER than the rational side of me. I really wish that the emotional side of me would die.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Can I ask?
What's wrong you love a man and you want to be his pleasant wife? Who cares about who wants to start being the pleasant one? Relationship works mutually, your target is a wonderful marriage so you can't have it if you are not a wonderful wife. A wonderful wife knows very well that her husband is the head of the family and she also knows how to turn his neck without conflicts and fights. When you're humble, you actually get more. The sea is huge because it's always in a lower and humble position. A lower position doesn't mean low self esteem. Be humble to your husband is the key of wonderful marriage. Some women get this idea very quickly, and their husbands love them faithfully. The husband treated his wife like a queen because she treats him like a proud king. Some women just don't get it. They choose to continue the arguements, staying in a war with the man she loves. 
Do you really love him? The truth is he doesn't feel loved but always questioned.
When you're so calculative in a relationship, who should be first? Why you're so childish? You love yourself more than him.
You need a lover, you know, you don't need a husband. Leave the marriage!


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

While I agree with most of your points, the place where I think you've gone slightly off track is when you say "I want him to be the person I know he could be if he exerted a little effort." This translates into "I want to change him." And you are never supposed to marry a man thinking you can change him (or a man marry a woman thinking that, either.) He is who he is...you have to either accept and love him as is, or accept that you cannot love him as he is and move on. If a person changes, it has to be on their own, because they want to, not because their spouse has badgered them or manipulated them into it.


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## k.m (May 18, 2009)

MsLonely said:


> Relationship works mutually


Y'know, this would be wonderful, if it were true. Relationships DON'T always work mutually. Sometimes, they are very one-sided, with one person working for decades to make things easy for their partner - to give them things they couldn't get on their own. Then, one day, the partner realizes that she's been giving and giving and giving and has rarely if ever gotten a single 'thanks' or simple kiss for it.


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## k.m (May 18, 2009)

atruckersgirl said:


> While I agree with most of your points, the place where I think you've gone slightly off track is when you say "I want him to be the person I know he could be if he exerted a little effort." This translates into "I want to change him."


Believe me, I know I can't change him. However, I do believe that I can help him see how much happier his life could be if he would drop the 12-year-old-with-a-temper-tantrum cr*p and would develop the thoughtful, considerate, intelligent-man-with-a-world-view side of him that does exist within him. I can do that by responding positively to the "grown up" him. And that is what I do. But the 12 year old never goes away.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think atruckersgirls response is the correct view. One of the reasons I'm divorced is my ex said she never felt she could live up to my expectations. All I ever wanted was for her to contribute as much as I did, but her life philosophy was different, her daily goals were different, her basic wiring was different than mine. It's all those little differences that start eating away at the marriage. 

It takes a lot of luck to find the right person for the marriage to be a 50/50 partnership, a marriage where both parties always have the same agenda. 

People respond to kindness better than to anger. I know you are frustrated but try asking for help instead of directing him. "I'll start dinner if you can help the kids clean up their mess" instead of "are you just going to sit there and look at that crap on the floor!" 

As for extending the olive branch and always trying to be the piece keeper no, not fair at all but......here's a lesson from a psychology class I took...When confronted by an angry person try to diffuse the situation by asking in a non-confrontational tone 'Why are you so angry?" People are creatures of habit, if you two are always hostile toward each other the pattern continues, if one of you breaks the cycle than hopefully the other follows suit. That's why the counselor tells you to try and be nice.

In the end it comes down to accepting who the other person is at their core, there is always some compromise but it has to be from both sides. There was such a difference between the person I married and the person I had hoped to marry that for us divorce was the only healthy answer. Trying to mold another into the perceived perfect spouse just isn't going to work, it just creates two very angry people.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

On this forum Ive been advised I need to "lead the charge," that he'll follow suit after a while of making an effort...
Sometimes I can do it and I feel happier and healthier and my hubs treats me better.
It means deep breathing, being neutral, chilling out, being sweet even when he's rude or disappointing.
But then I drop the ball on my end, maybe let my resentment or sense of justice speak up, and we spiral downward immediately.
Like you, the emotional and rational sides of me fight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> On this forum Ive been advised I need to "lead the charge," that he'll follow suit after a while of making an effort...
> Sometimes I can do it and I feel happier and healthier and my hubs treats me better.
> It means deep breathing, being neutral, chilling out, being sweet even when he's rude or disappointing.
> But then I drop the ball on my end, maybe let my resentment or sense of justice speak up, and we spiral downward immediately.
> ...


Richard Schwartz calls them "parts wars"


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

MsLonely said:


> Can I ask?
> What's wrong you love a man and you want to be his pleasant wife? Who cares about who wants to start being the pleasant one? Relationship works mutually, your target is a wonderful marriage so you can't have it if you are not a wonderful wife. A wonderful wife knows very well that her husband is the head of the family and she also knows how to turn his neck without conflicts and fights. When you're humble, you actually get more. The sea is huge because it's always in a lower and humble position. A lower position doesn't mean low self esteem. Be humble to your husband is the key of wonderful marriage. Some women get this idea very quickly, and their husbands love them faithfully. The husband treated his wife like a queen because she treats him like a proud king. Some women just don't get it. They choose to continue the arguements, staying in a war with the man she loves.
> Do you really love him? The truth is he doesn't feel loved but always questioned.
> When you're so calculative in a relationship, who should be first? Why you're so childish? You love yourself more than him.
> You need a lover, you know, you don't need a husband. Leave the marriage!


I don't think it's healthy to love someone else, more than you love yourself. Choosing to put a man first at all times is a sign of low self esteem.
Sounds like you need a dictator and not a husband. Marriage is a partnership, not a life of martyrdom and servitude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## k.m (May 18, 2009)

credamdóchasgra said:


> But then I drop the ball on my end, maybe let my resentment or sense of justice speak up, and we spiral downward immediately.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. And I'm tired of being the one with all the balls, even if I do drop them...


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Unfortunately-Marriage in some parts are about sacrifice.
Being humble is not being low self esteem.
Things works mutually, when you respect ppl, ppl respect you back. When you love ppl, ppl love you back.
It's a partnership of love, respect & communication. It's not a partnership of calculating - who should love first? comparing- who's more childish here? Low self esteem, begging or ass kissing is unhealthy.
A wonderful marriage has a wonderful wife in it. 
Some ppl can't stand for sacrifice and they don't want to be humble, either.
Usually they also attracted same kind of spouses.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

MsLonely said:


> Unfortunately-Marriage in some parts are about sacrifice.
> Being humble is not being low self esteem.
> Things works mutually, when you respect ppl, ppl respect you back. When you love ppl, ppl love you back.
> It's a partnership of love, respect & communication. It's not a partnership of calculating - who should love first? comparing- who's more childish here? Low self esteem, begging or ass kissing is unhealthy.
> ...


 Why I agree with parts of your comment I disagree with the last line. I have sat here and considered my friends marriages(and my own) and there is always one party who is willing to sacrifice and be humble for the sake of the marriage, more so than the other. I believe the original poster is a perfect example.
She has fifty balls in the air at once and she's still expected to smile and be the dutiful wife. In a perfect sense marriage the husband would see her struggles and take over juggling half those balls. Instead he comes in and tosses his into the air for her to juggle as well.

I lived that kind marriage, I always felt as if I was raising three children, two that were young kids and one that was my wife, a forty something incorrigible, moody and deceitful little brat. I think the OP has just reached the limit of her patience and abilities to juggle. 

But all marriages hit some bumps, most can be repaired to save the marriage. Communication without anger and resentment is very important, maybe a mediator of some sort needs to be involved. IMO most times one spouse will be stronger than the other, and that's OK. 

I have a question for the OP, k.m. You want your husband to live up to the man you think he could be, what if he already is? People are all wired differently, what if he's doing the best he can right now? Maybe not up to your standards but the best he is capable of. What then?


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## Tiredspouse0297 (Dec 9, 2010)

Cooper is right. Sometimes we have to come to terms with the fact that people are who they are and maybe we aren't compatible with that. In my first marriage I was always the responsible one who thought through all our actions and made sure everything was taken care of. My ex was flighty, a total dreamer, irresponsible, emotionally distance. He still is seven years after our divorce. I still do 99% of the parenting, errands for the kids, shuttle them back and forth, make sure homework is done etc. Thank God I left when I did. Now I'm faced with the fact that my current husband is controlling. I don't see that ever changing either and I have to decide if I can live with it. It's very hard to find someone you're compatible with and even when you're willing to compromise if the other person isn't then you're probably not going to make much progress.


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