# Trying to understand



## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

I'm new to this forum, but I'm trying to figure out what to do. My hubby and I will be celebrating our 3 year anniv. this December and to put it lightly, this past year has been horrendous! First off, I gave birth to twins almost a year ago, ended up in a coma for two weeks after, went back to work full time 3 months after they were born, then most recently, almost two months ago I had a stroke that affected one side of me for a few weeks. I'm only 36. But anyway, before the stroke, my sex drive was intermittant at best, I was always exhausted, but then after my stroke, I really didn't feel like it. My husband is not happy at all. We still do it on occassion and quite honestly, the longest we didn't was about 6 weeks after the babies, but he acts like I should want it every night, and if I ask him to back off for a little bit, he agrees, but 24 hours later he's asking for it again and getting angry if he doesn't get it. Most recently, he began browsing "hook up" sites, claiming he was just trying to talk to someone about my not wanting to have sex. However, these encounters online occured after I went to bed, and once when he got up to get one of the babies a bottle at 3 am. He so much as sent pics of himself to three different women, not sure what kind of pics, he deleted them... We faced a lot shortly after we married... to the point of almost divorced (he's a recovering drug addict), but he attended intensive rehab, and a few months later, we got pregnant. We already have a counseling session set up soon, but I don't know what to do about my sex drive, and I'm tired of stressing over whether he will stray... What can I do?


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

I can only give you advice about you. Your husband obviously has some issues but lets just answer your question.

What can you do?

The answer, unfortunately for you since you are looking for something deeper, is simple. If you don't want him to stray, have sex with him more, its that simple.

You mention your physical problems in the past, but you didn't say they have made you physically unable to have sex, its just that you don't want to/low libido.

Here's a few tips.

1. The more you have sex as a woman, the more you will want it (generally). Semen has testosterone in it that you would absorb into your body after sex, and the testosterone will help up your own libido. 

2. Even if you don't want to, do it anyway and ACT like you want to. No man wants to sleep with their wife if she is apathic about the sexual encounter.

Generally (there are exceptions) men are simple, sleep with us a lot and we won't cheat. Some of us would cheat regardless and some of us wouldn't cheat no matter what, but the general statement is true.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

I do understand what you are saying, but how often am I expected to do it? Every day, twice a day, twice a week, once a week? If he goes without for a period longer than a week, I shouldn't be scared he's gonna cheat, should I? I've told him that I want to be able to come onto him like I use to, but again, he thinks that if I don't pounce on him after 24 hours of asking him that, he's gonna shrivel up. I understand the importance of sex in a marriage, and I'm not saying there's not a problem with my libido, however I feel like I'm being forced into getting it back for the sake of saving my marriage, not because I want to enjoy it like I used to... I don't know...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

In a nutshell ...
I meet this wonderful girl and we have off-the-hook sex for three years. I ask her to spend her life with me.

From the time we became engaged, the dynamic of our sex-life begins to radically change.

We have children. The children and their well-being become her absolute focus. Me, my well-being - and our relationship become secondary. Sex isn't even on her radar, it is seen as chore that she has to be an unwilling participant in, instead of an exercise in strengthening our bond and marriage.

My desire to be intimate becomes the focus of the issue, her lack of desire seems reasonable and justifiable to her.

We grow apart, and split up.

I'm not going to make the sweeping generalization that this is the case in every marriage - but the above is _exactly_ what happened in mine.

If the two of you take the approach that each of you is doing something 'wrong': you don't want sex, he is making use of pornography or chatting up people online to sate his needs, I can guarantee your outcome will be the same. Your marriage will simply continue to deteriorate.

Approach it as a problem that the two of you need to resolve to preserve your marriage, and it takes on a different context.

You may think RevitalizedHusband's point number 2 above is ridiculous - but it is 100% true. If we feel fulfilled, generally we are going to work harder to make you happy as well.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

It sounds as if he's an extremely selfish person. His behavior isn't your fault and you shouldn't put up with it for a second. He needs to get back into therapy on his own.

As for you, have you had a complete physical, including a thyroid check?


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

I've asked 3 different doctors about my lack of sex drive (after the stroke) and they all pretty much laugh at me and tell me that after what my body has been through this year, it should be the least of my concerns (hubby was sitting right there when they said that)... I go back to the doc on Oct. 12 and rest assured I'm going to let her know that my lack of libido is now the most of my concerns because my husband needs sex now... I will be sure to mention the thyroid too though. Thanks!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think you need to look up someone who specializes in sexual dysfunction -- low desire. You're right that most doctors laugh at both men and women and fail to treat their concerns with the respect they deserve.

While the doc is very nice to give you a pass knowing what you've been through, he's not paying attention to the fact that you are in a marriage where both partners expected sex to play a role.


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## 20yrs (Sep 18, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> 1. The more you have sex as a woman, the more you will want it (generally). Semen has testosterone in it that you would absorb into your body after sex, and the testosterone will help up your own libido.
> 
> 2. Even if you don't want to, do it anyway and ACT like you want to. No man wants to sleep with their wife if she is apathic about the sexual encounter.


I had never quite put it this way but it is ABSOLUTELY true.... coming from someone with a low sex drive - in fact a VERY low sex drive, do Number 2 and Number 1 will happen.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

dobo said:


> I think you need to look up someone who specializes in sexual dysfunction -- low desire. You're right that most doctors laugh at both men and women and fail to treat their concerns with the respect they deserve.
> 
> While the doc is very nice to give you a pass knowing what you've been through, he's not paying attention to the fact that you are in a marriage where both partners expected sex to play a role.


Bingo.

On the one occasion that my wife did try to speak with her gyn at the time about her performance difficulties and apprehension about sex, the doc dismissed it and told her that she just needed more foreplay. I was dumbfounded. So consequently, she stopped looking for solutions, and things just got worse.


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## mike1 (Jun 15, 2009)

Have to 100% agree with revitalizedhusband. I know it sounds selfish and so non-politically correct but it's so true. And I say that because of my own situation. My wife rarely has sex with me unless she is 'in the mood' and I have to usually live without it. And it's not all the time. She will 'usually' throw me a bone so to speak every week or two. But I often feel the same as the OPs husband. I can have sex one night and I'll be more then ready the next morning. 

Again, I know this is so not P.C. but it always amazes me why women are surprised when their husbands cheat on them and they full well knew that they were not satisfying their man in the bedroom. I'm not saying that cheating is right but how surprising is that outcome?? I've been tempted before and I would be hard pressed to resist should a situation ever come up and I had the opportunity to have sex with someone else. But I haven't cheated and I haven't gone the route of joining an online dating site or whatever. But that doesn't mean it hasn't crossed my mind. 

So I am sorry for your situation and who knows what the right number is. Maybe you need to have a conversation and ask. And maybe it doesn't have to be intercourse all the time, maybe you could have sex 3 times a week and throw in a couple of BJs or handjobs just to get him off? I would be in heaven and happier then ever if I could get my wife to just do that.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Mike, it isn't like your wife isn't giving you any. If you cheat, that's on you.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

mike1 said:


> Have to 100% agree with revitalizedhusband. I know it sounds selfish and so non-politically correct but it's so true. And I say that because of my own situation. My wife rarely has sex with me unless she is 'in the mood' and I have to usually live without it. And it's not all the time. She will 'usually' throw me a bone so to speak every week or two. But I often feel the same as the OPs husband. I can have sex one night and I'll be more then ready the next morning.
> 
> Again, I know this is so not P.C. but it always amazes me why women are surprised when their husbands cheat on them and they full well knew that they were not satisfying their man in the bedroom. I'm not saying that cheating is right but how surprising is that outcome?? I've been tempted before and I would be hard pressed to resist should a situation ever come up and I had the opportunity to have sex with someone else. But I haven't cheated and I haven't gone the route of joining an online dating site or whatever. But that doesn't mean it hasn't crossed my mind.
> 
> So I am sorry for your situation and who knows what the right number is. Maybe you need to have a conversation and ask. And maybe it doesn't have to be intercourse all the time, maybe you could have sex 3 times a week and throw in a couple of BJs or handjobs just to get him off? I would be in heaven and happier then ever if I could get my wife to just do that.


Whatever happened to masturbation? 3 times a week and a couple of BJ's or handjobs? I'm not saying it's impossible, but after three years together and full time jobs, twin babies at home, a teenager staying the weekends with us? So the number it sounds like would be good with you in one way shape or form is pretty much every night and then some... I know my number of 1 every week or two is pretty low, but your number seems a bit excessive for a couple with twin babies... And I'm a firm believer that sex in a marriage is not all a marriage is about when it comes down to it. So to stray for lack of sex after about a week, a month, or even a year, is probably saying a lot more about the foundation of that marriage to begin with... And I know in my own marriage there are foundation issues from the start <---- we've been addressing those issues too.


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## silvernblack (Jul 21, 2009)

Cherry said:


> Whatever happened to masturbation? 3 times a week and a couple of BJ's or handjobs? I'm not saying it's impossible, but after three years together and full time jobs, twin babies at home, a teenager staying the weekends with us? So the number it sounds like would be good with you in one way shape or form is pretty much every night and then some... I know my number of 1 every week or two is pretty low, but your number seems a bit excessive for a couple with twin babies... And I'm a firm believer that sex in a marriage is not all a marriage is about when it comes down to it. So to stray for lack of sex after about a week, a month, or even a year, is probably saying a lot more about the foundation of that marriage to begin with... And I know in my own marriage there are foundation issues from the start <---- we've been addressing those issues too.


I agree with you about foundation issues and a marriage not being all about sex. I'm in my early 20s, married a guy in his mid 30s, give him sex whenever he wants, try whatever he wants in bed...did that keep him from straying? No. Sometimes people have problems that need to really be worked on, sex can't be used as a bandaid for everything that's wrong in a marriage.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

Cherry....3 times a week is NOT that much.

My wife and I have 3 kids that range from 3 yrs to 8 yrs, I work full time and she works part time (mostly a stay at home mom) and at no point in our marriage (9.5 years now) did we have sex less than probably twice a week on average.

Now we are more like 4-5 times a week and my wife is a low libido woman...I have to do things to help her get in the mood most nights.

Sorry, but I mean at one point we had a 5 year old, 3 year old, and a infant and 3 times a week might have been a "low" week for us.

Whatever happened to masturbation? Well, find me a man that wants to masturbate over having sex with his wife and I'll show you a man that has some MAJOR issues.

Twin babies or not, you HAVE to make time, they sleep, they can be in play pins etc. What does having the teenager over have to do with anything? Your bedroom door has a lock on it doesn't it?

About the quote..



> And I'm a firm believer that sex in a marriage is not all a marriage is about when it comes down to it. So to stray for lack of sex after about a week, a month, or even a year, is probably saying a lot more about the foundation of that marriage to begin with...


You need to read the book "The Five Love Languates" because you just don't understand what is means for someone who's love language is physical touch, to be loved. Most men have the love language of physical touch and that, in a nutshell, means they feel 0 love from their spouse if their spouse doesn't want to have sex with them.

You definitely have one of the other 4 love languages, whichever one it is it is the "thing" that makes you feel loved, period. Its not sex for you and thats fine.

However, to those who's love language is physical touch, sex is the most important thing in the marriag to them, always has and always will be, period. Whatever your love language is, that is the most important thing to you in the marriage.

It doesn't mean either of you are wrong, you just "feel loved" in different ways. 

So, what I'm saying is that to you, you are right, sex isn't the most important thing in a marriage, however, most likely to your husband (and most men) it most definitely is, and you can't change that.

Also, the comment that "so to stray after a week, month, or even a year..." oh come on. You can't truly expect someone to stick around with no sex for A YEAR! I've been married going on 10 years now, and if we take away the couple weeks after giving birth, the longest my wife and I have ever gone without some form of sex is probably 2 weeks...and by God she knew I wasn't happy about it. I wasn't a prick, but she knew it was starting to upset me...and she then took care of it a couple nights in a row. 

My wife's love language is acts of service (basically doing stuff for her or helping her out). If I laid around the house and did jack crap for her for weeks on end or months or A YEAR you better believe she'd be PISSED OFF and she should be.

Again, sorry to reiterate it, but while sex isn't the most important thing to you in a marriage, it most likely is to your husband and you can't change that.

I'm not saying your husband is "right" in everything because he's obviously not, but he's not the one here asking for advice, I'd be ripping him a knew one for the chat sites/online dating thing instead of coming to you and figuring out an compromise or just laying out an ultimatum, something besides nearly cheating.

You asked for advice on how to know he won't stray, well, the advice is sleep with him 3+ times a week and I can next to bet he won't stray. That's not even every day (which is what my wife and I shoot for, but typically its 5 times a week), thats not even every other day to be honest. 

You mean you can't find 30 minutes once every two days, even with twin babies and a job to have sex? There has GOT to be some things you and your husband both do during the day that isn't quite essential (TV? Internet? etc) that you could cut 30 minutes out of that activity to be with each other.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> You asked for advice on how to know he won't stray, well, the advice is sleep with him 3+ times a week and I can next to bet he won't stray. That's not even every day (which is what my wife and I shoot for, but typically its 5 times a week), thats not even every other day to be honest.
> 
> You mean you can't find 30 minutes once every two days, even with twin babies and a job to have sex? There has GOT to be some things you and your husband both do during the day that isn't quite essential (TV? Internet? etc) that you could cut 30 minutes out of that activity to be with each other.


Our babies actually just started going to bed at a normal time, and not taking turns waking up, thus leaving us about 2 hours in the evening for some alone time... Wii, TV, cleaning, etc. I don't know, I do hear what you're saying. I haven't read the book you refer to, but it is painstaking to hear that some men "need" sex to feel any amount of love from their spouse. I guess I may have been that way in my earlier years (college), but then I made a conscious effort to go without any kind of relationship for at least a year. I determined I can't depend on anyone to "give" me anything to make me happy, I have to make myself happy, sex included, before I can make anyone else happy. Interesting perspective though. Glad I came here because I am learning that I do need to give a little and instead of turning a blind eye to my lost libido, I should work on getting it back and quit making excuses.


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Cherry,

I appreciate the fact that you have come here looking for advice, it has helped me tremedously just to read what others have been going through. I think the responses here have covered the spectrum and there is truth in what has been stated. I too was unhappy with the frequency of intimacy with my wife, in fact so much so that I secretly kept track in 2008. We did it a total of 27 times, averaging about twice a month. This was not enough for me to feel emotionally connected to my wife. The act to me and most of the men on here means more than just getting off, it is a true connection to our wives. Sounds feminine but perhaps this is our strongest trait. After having a candid conversation with my wife we have been intimate 41 times so far this year, averaging better than once a week. I told her twice a week would be sufficient for me. She does work full time, we have two children, and we're both just very busy people. We are tired at the end of the day. Funny thing is she said that sometimes she would just like to have sex, not make love! A quickie! Unfortunately I prefer longer sessions with foreplay and I get far more enjoyment in getting her off then even if I do. I think you're on the right track, you should express your love for your husband in a physical manor but try to enjoy it yourself as well! I don't think you need to do it 5 times a week however! Start slow and work up from there if you're both enjoying it!


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

Cherry said:


> I haven't read the book you refer to, but it is painstaking to hear that some men "need" sex to feel any amount of love from their spouse.



Cherry, its not just "some" men that have physical touch as a love language, its a majority of men. Its how we feel loved. Its also the love language for some women as well, its not just men.


Unforunately, most women need to feel an emotional connection with their husband in order to have sex with them. 

Men need to have sex to feel an emotional connection with their wife. 

The two are complete opposites.


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## silvernblack (Jul 21, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> Cherry, its not just "some" men that have physical touch as a love language, its a majority of men. Its how we feel loved. Its also the love language for some women as well, its not just men.
> 
> 
> Unforunately, most women need to feel an emotional connection with their husband in order to have sex with them.
> ...


It's "unfortunate" that women need to emotionally connect with their husbands, but perfectly fine and natural that men need to jump their wive's bones every day in order to remain faithful?? I'm emotionally disconnected from my husband. As I mentioned before, he gets all the sex he wants when he wants. But since he's getting what he wants (or needs, according to you), he has no incentive to change. Basically, he's happy, I'm miserable. He feels "loved", and I'm ready to call it quits.

So I guess women in my situation should just keep giving our husbands what they "need", go on unfulfilled, and hope things turn around? And women in Cherry's position should give their husbands the sex, and then things will automatically turn around for the better?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

As a man I give you huge points for trying to understand what it is like to be a man. 

Lets start with some basic things. 
1. Yes frequency matters - but attitude matters too. My wife was always good about frequency but when it came to empathy she was a zero. So on the nights that we didn't have sex, I really felt rejected. It took a LONG time to get her to understand the enormous power of a nice hug combined with: "baby I am sorry - I truly want to rock your world tonight - I am just dead tired - can we connect tomorrow"

2. This is the opposite of the type comment Dobo made to Mike. Mike is getting sex once every week or two. And Dobo's comment to him was, hey its not like you aren't getting sex, so if you cheat it is on you. True. Very true. And very cold. Sex on average every 10 days is a true starvation diet for a male in his 20s/30s - even at 47 that is 1/2 my - minimum comfortable frequency. If I met my wifes emotional needs once every 10 days: Dobo would correctly say that I am a bad husband - and my wife would have left me by now. But when you guys don't have sex with us 9 days out of 10 you are not meeting OUR emotional needs. This is NOT about an orgasm it is about feeling loved. Really and truly. Trust me - he has access to first class porn - if he just wants to cum.....


3. My guess is this. If you are empathetic about how you know this is difficult for him that will help. But he needs to understand this is really hard for you also - that you will make the effort to connect with him - given the situation if you hit 3 times a week you really get an A+. The tough thing is for him the difference between twice and thrice a week is noticeable. I think you are totally justified to give him a shortlist of stuff you want him to do for you to make life a little less stressful the nights / mornings you do connect. He needs to show you some love as well. 

4. I personally love to start having sex by - not having sex - I like to start by slowly massaging my wife in a non-sexual way, then gradually a sensual way and then I let her tell me when she is ready. When she is she just says 'KISS ME' and I know to start to play....

Will it help you if he starts out a little slower? Maybe you can teach him how to touch you/massage you in a way that feels nice even if you are not yet aroused. 












Cherry said:


> Our babies actually just started going to bed at a normal time, and not taking turns waking up, thus leaving us about 2 hours in the evening for some alone time... Wii, TV, cleaning, etc. I don't know, I do hear what you're saying. I haven't read the book you refer to, but it is painstaking to hear that some men "need" sex to feel any amount of love from their spouse. I guess I may have been that way in my earlier years (college), but then I made a conscious effort to go without any kind of relationship for at least a year. I determined I can't depend on anyone to "give" me anything to make me happy, I have to make myself happy, sex included, before I can make anyone else happy. Interesting perspective though. Glad I came here because I am learning that I do need to give a little and instead of turning a blind eye to my lost libido, I should work on getting it back and quit making excuses.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

silvernblack said:


> It's "unfortunate" that women need to emotionally connect with their husbands, but perfectly fine and natural that men need to jump their wive's bones every day in order to remain faithful?? I'm emotionally disconnected from my husband. As I mentioned before, he gets all the sex he wants when he wants. But since he's getting what he wants (or needs, according to you), he has no incentive to change. Basically, he's happy, I'm miserable. He feels "loved", and I'm ready to call it quits.
> 
> So I guess women in my situation should just keep giving our husbands what they "need", go on unfulfilled, and hope things turn around? And women in Cherry's position should give their husbands the sex, and then things will automatically turn around for the better?


You are misreading the context of his statement. The "unfortunate" part is that generally, men and women approach sex from different places emotionally. If we didn't - odds are we wouldn't be having this conversation.

As for your circumstance? It is exactly the reverse of many men here, myself included. No, it isn't ok that you are expected to perform for him while none of your needs are met. 

You're situation aside, if the goal of a woman is to feel more connected with her spouse, sex is one of them most powerful ways that a man feels connected to, and loved by his partner. Period.

The flipside of course, is what you are doing - and what myself and many others tried to do with their wives. Give them what they want in the hope that you will get what you want - and you don't. Either they won't give it, or you just don't feel it. So, resentment festers. You either live in misery, or pull the plug.


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Revitalizedhauband... yes, I can show you a man who prefered masturbation over sex, and YES he did have issues... to the tune of not being able to keep an erection inside any woman. Those who prefer "that" definitely have an issue. Note... this is NOT my husband! He has no problem with that

Cherry, I like your last post. In fact, I may be trying to do what you are... so we can keep each other posted! I dont want my husband to ever stray, and at the rate my libido has been... well, lets just say I need to do and not resent. Im going to try to psyche myself up for it all day, bc I know I wont get any flirty txts about it from him and thats not a stab at him, he just told me he wont do that...Good luck to you


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Mem, since I understand not getting as much as I want, I don't think you have any right to assume that I am supporting women doing this to men.

But if I cheat on MY husband for the same thing, I'm as wrong as any of you are for cheating on your wives.

Got it? 

I'm really tired of the poor pitiful me guys on here thinking they're the only people who suffer in this area. And I'm even more tired of the assumption that all women stick together on this issue, holding out on their men.

Give me a break. 

You have choices. Cheat and be a scum or divorce. If you cheat you'll end up divorced, too, only your spouse will hate you because you were an ******* and they'll more than likely punish you even more in the divorce. So go ahead and cheat as though it is your only choice. As though you'll get to hold onto your STUFF that way.

I'm so tired of stupidity in this area.

If you cheat, it is your choice. I don't care what you're not getting at home. 

If you cheat because you say you can't afford a divorce, you're only postponing the inevitable and making it worse, to boot. So lie to yourself about that.

Whatever. It isn't my problem.

And I like Choose2, I can show you another man and as a matter of fact, many men who have this problem. The net has made it easier and easier and more women are going to end up marrying these guys because there will be more and more of them as time goes on.

Men : Talk to your sons.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

silvernblack said:


> It's "unfortunate" that women need to emotionally connect with their husbands, but perfectly fine and natural that men need to jump their wive's bones every day in order to remain faithful?? I'm emotionally disconnected from my husband. As I mentioned before, he gets all the sex he wants when he wants. But since he's getting what he wants (or needs, according to you), he has no incentive to change. Basically, he's happy, I'm miserable. He feels "loved", and I'm ready to call it quits.
> 
> So I guess women in my situation should just keep giving our husbands what they "need", go on unfulfilled, and hope things turn around? And women in Cherry's position should give their husbands the sex, and then things will automatically turn around for the better?


I am sorry to read about your experience but actually for my husband and I, the only thing "missing" is my libido really. My husband is a fantastic man. He helps so much around the house, he really goes above and beyond. We did have rough spots in the beginning when the babies were born, and I stayed home on maternity leave. But he really does try. He really wants to be a good husband, and thanks to all the replies here and elsewhere on the forum, I'm beginning to understand that I do need to give some more. I'm reading between the lines though and I refuse to be a sex toy for him, but I can learn to meet his needs as well. Reading this did make me remember that I was quite active when we first married. So why is it fair for me to use all sorts of excuses for not even being a little active for the sake of making my husband happy. 

A side note, after reading through this forum, I did conclude that perhaps the idea of slipping into a coma after giving birth may have dampened my sex drive, plus I did get on BC for the second time in my life 3 months after they were born. Well, we're done having kids, but they won't tie my tubes due to my health, so we made the decision to take care of him! Sooner rather than later and thus can do away with these stupid hormone issues related to BC. I'm hopeful my sex drive will return


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

silvernblack said:


> It's "unfortunate" that women need to emotionally connect with their husbands, but perfectly fine and natural that men need to jump their wive's bones every day in order to remain faithful?? I'm emotionally disconnected from my husband. As I mentioned before, he gets all the sex he wants when he wants. But since he's getting what he wants (or needs, according to you), he has no incentive to change. Basically, he's happy, I'm miserable. He feels "loved", and I'm ready to call it quits.
> 
> So I guess women in my situation should just keep giving our husbands what they "need", go on unfulfilled, and hope things turn around? And women in Cherry's position should give their husbands the sex, and then things will automatically turn around for the better?


Maybe I put the word "unfortunately" in the wrong spot, the "unfortunate" part is that men and women are complete opposites in this regard, not that women need to feel an emotional connection first.

Sorry if I made it sound like I meant that well its unfortunate how women are "wired", when its not in their control how they are wired.

Oh, about the "he gets what he wants so whats his incentive to change". You want to see a change, stop having sex, he'll change, but it might not be the type of change you are looking for.

Have you told him exactly the type of "emotional" needs you have that aren't being met? Even bring it up that you are meeting his sexual needs but your emotional needs are not being met and you need them to be.

Just be point blank to him and tell him what is missing, just don't come across like everything is 100% his fault and he sucks as a husband, that will shut him down and the conversation will be useless.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> As a man I give you huge points for trying to understand what it is like to be a man.
> 
> Lets start with some basic things.
> 1. Yes frequency matters - but attitude matters too. My wife was always good about frequency but when it came to empathy she was a zero. So on the nights that we didn't have sex, I really felt rejected. It took a LONG time to get her to understand the enormous power of a nice hug combined with: "baby I am sorry - I truly want to rock your world tonight - I am just dead tired - can we connect tomorrow"
> ...



Very nice, a 100 times much more eloquent way of saying what I've been trying to say.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

Cherry said:


> I am sorry to read about your experience but actually for my husband and I, the only thing "missing" is my libido really. My husband is a fantastic man. He helps so much around the house, he really goes above and beyond. We did have rough spots in the beginning when the babies were born, and I stayed home on maternity leave. But he really does try. He really wants to be a good husband, and thanks to all the replies here and elsewhere on the forum, I'm beginning to understand that I do need to give some more. I'm reading between the lines though and I refuse to be a sex toy for him, but I can learn to meet his needs as well. Reading this did make me remember that I was quite active when we first married. So why is it fair for me to use all sorts of excuses for not even being a little active for the sake of making my husband happy.
> 
> A side note, after reading through this forum, I did conclude that perhaps the idea of slipping into a coma after giving birth may have dampened my sex drive, plus I did get on BC for the second time in my life 3 months after they were born. Well, we're done having kids, but they won't tie my tubes due to my health, so we made the decision to take care of him! Sooner rather than later and thus can do away with these stupid hormone issues related to BC. I'm hopeful my sex drive will return



Good for you, hope it all works out.


Side note: Once a couple gets into a great sexual relationship with each other, you basically do become each others sex toys .


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## mike1 (Jun 15, 2009)

Cherry said:


> Whatever happened to masturbation? 3 times a week and a couple of BJ's or handjobs? I'm not saying it's impossible, but after three years together and full time jobs, twin babies at home, a teenager staying the weekends with us? So the number it sounds like would be good with you in one way shape or form is pretty much every night and then some... I know my number of 1 every week or two is pretty low, but your number seems a bit excessive for a couple with twin babies... And I'm a firm believer that sex in a marriage is not all a marriage is about when it comes down to it. So to stray for lack of sex after about a week, a month, or even a year, is probably saying a lot more about the foundation of that marriage to begin with... And I know in my own marriage there are foundation issues from the start <---- we've been addressing those issues too.


Oh yes, there's always masturbation but as some of the others have already said, sex is part of a man's love language. It's not simply about getting off. If that was the case men would never need sex, we could just jerk off all the time. To me sex is a lot about connecting and feeling wanted by my wife. When she won't have sex with me I feel rejected, unwanted, unappreciated, etc, etc. Of course the orgasm is fantastic but it's about emotional needs as well.

MEM said it really well that if I were to only meet my wife's emotional needs every week or two well I'd be a bad husband, wouldn't I? But it's never really viewed like that when the tables are turned. I don't press it anymore, I learned my lesson a long time ago but in the past if I would press the sex issue with my wife I was made to feel like I was a bad person for wanting sex with my wife a lot. Like my needs were not only ridiculous but it put stress on her and the only fair thing was to only have sex when she decided she wanted it. And that's how it is today with us. I very very rarely come onto her for sex; it's about her coming to me when she decides. But yeah of course I still take care of her as much as I can. I really try to be attentive to her needs and go out of my way to do what I can to make her happy. 

I guess from my perspective I don't think that 3 times a week & a couple of blowjobs is all that difficult really. Heck, even just do something sexual every other day. I don't know how it is with you but I see how much time my wife spends on other things and how much focus is put towards everything else in her life. It seems like me and my sexual needs are always last on the list. I'm not asking for a lot and usually our sex sessions last 15 minutes or less. So it's not like I'm asking for hours and hours. we're talking 15 minutes, three times a week plus another 10-15 minutes for a BJ. So it's frustrating to think that she probably spends 30 minutes every day on facebook, plus it seems an hour every evening she spends talking to her mother and/or sister. She doesn't have a problem cleaning up the house or doing the laundry, she'd rather spend time doing the household stuff then having sex with me. So it's about prioritization. And I have gone to the lengths of spending weeks at a time getting all the laundry done, keeping the house cleaned, vacuumed, etc. But not having those things to do didn't give her any more incentive to be more sexual and put me up on her priority list. 

So it's not just about the orgasm, it's about being a priority to her. I've given up a lot personally to make her happy and make sure she knows that she's very important to me. I do a lot around the house and with the kids every night. I'm a good husband and father and I always am trying to make sure my wife's needs are met and that I'm doing what I can to make her happy. It's disappointing on a regular basis that my needs are so unimportant to her. I guess I just think - my God, is it really that difficult for you to spend 15 minutes here on me?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dobo,
If things are difficult for you at the moment I empathize. We have all been there at some point. Despite my perceiving your tone as a bit rough at times I think your husband is a lucky man to have such a smart, perceptive spouse. Perhaps you are not as edgy as it seems, the printed word can be ambiguous even when wielded skillfully. 

My main comment had to do with tone. I am not suggesting you empathize with threats to cheat. Just with the sex starved situation which sucks. Maybe Mikes wife has told him why she is turned off - I have asked him in other posts - he never responds to specific questions - just talks about his desire for a minimum diet of intercourse thrice weekly and bjs and hjs twice weekly which I guess means that his DW would be getting him to the finish line every day. 

The tone I suggest you take is the tone I try to take situations are reversed. For instance it is very rare - like twice a year, but occassionally my wife initiates and I am not in the mood. I literally cannot even believe these words are coming off the keyboard - not in the mood. Amazing. Is this what age means?

When that happens I do everything I can to avoid her feeling rejected. So I radiate empathy, promise to deliver the goods tomorrow and tell her I am sorry for not being in synch with her desire. I also offer and sometimes insist on giving her a nice full body massage. Yes even if I am tired. Because I know how many nights she has gone the extra mile for me. So this just seems like the decent thing to do. 

As for cheating I have never cheated - more to the point I have never tried to cheat, never wanted to cheat. If my wife had become sexually averse to me and then refused to explain why (we did have an issue - it was me - I fixed it) I would give her a choice. A D or a GF. I wouldn't hide or sneak. But I am not into "blind" celibacy. This is when your partner says - I can't / won't have sex with you - not even sex lite (non intercourse of whatever flavor you like) AND I can't/won't it is almost always won't tell you why. 

It just seems to me that some people have this idea that sex is totally optional in marriage, and that it is also ok to become sexually averse to a spouse and refuse to admit it and/or explain what the heck is going on in your head. 

I actually think that such a viewpoint that is fine if you openly share it before setting a wedding date. I have a huge problem with people acting very differently after marriage then before. 






dobo said:


> Mem, since I understand not getting as much as I want, I don't think you have any right to assume that I am supporting women doing this to men.
> 
> But if I cheat on MY husband for the same thing, I'm as wrong as any of you are for cheating on your wives.
> 
> ...


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I 100% totally agree that being sex-starved sucks. But when it naturally turns to cheating as it inevitably does, I draw a line. 

I can understand thinking about cheating. I can. But to make it almost acceptable in response to this situation... I just can't go there. It is wrong.

Like you, we'd discuss getting a BF... We did, in fact. But I can't do that, either. It isn't me. 

The truth is, a lot of the guys in this situation are afraid to act to make their situation better, but never find a way to accept and live with their choice to stay. I get tired of hearing it, really. We all have our crosses to bear. But if you are going to stay married, learn to be happy about it. And if you can't do that, make the difficult choice to leave and let go of your STUFF and try to make the remainder of your life a happy one.

For me, I'm not leaving. I love him too much. But if we ever got to zero sex, I expect that I will leave. We discussed this prior to marriage. Sex matters. Sex and marriage go hand in hand. Without sex, there IS no marriage.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

dobo said:


> You have choices. Cheat and be a scum or divorce. If you cheat you'll end up divorced, too, only your spouse will hate you because you were an ******* and they'll more than likely punish you even more in the divorce. So go ahead and cheat as though it is your only choice. As though you'll get to hold onto your STUFF that way.
> 
> .


yes yes yes, thats it isnt it. thats why withholding sex works for as long as it usually does. eventually even the thought of being pizz poor broke doesn't scare a man off from cheating.

right of refusal must be great. yeah i know it happens to both men and women but ya know what, even when a woman cheats and divorce happens the man still gets screwed.

spare me the lecture dobo. this is an aged old problem. women use their powers in an expert manner. using the feminine parts has been a bargaining chip since the beginning of mankind and nothing has changed. 

but all that aside, i haven't and likely won't cheat and am accepting things the way they are. putting regular sex out of my mind (with my wife) has relieved alot of stress. i deeply enjoy my kids and their activities, focu on the good is all i can doo. the rest will take care of itself in time.

but i am not giving into her needs now, that time has passed. i will not be a jellyfish to her, she will not enjoy this anymore than i am.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Maybe if men and women made an equal amount in the marketplace women wouldn't make out so much in a divorce. Maybe if more men were stay-at-home fathers, it wouldn't be this way. But don't blame me for the culture or the way things have gone down in the past. Men have plenty to answer for in terms of who is screwed and who is kept down be it because of gender or race.

Maybe this is the price you pay for having had it your way for so long?

I don't know.

I do know that I make about the same as my husband. Neither of us has an advantage at divorce. His ex- made more than him. They split things equitably. My ex- made more because I was a stay-at-home. I returned to work right away and elected to remarry 3 years before my spousal support ended. I had payed off debt my previous marriage incurred and didn't want or need spousal any longer. I could have kept single and made out like a bandit.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

dobo said:


> Maybe if men and women made an equal amount in the marketplace women wouldn't make out so much in a divorce. Maybe if more men were stay-at-home fathers, it wouldn't be this way. But don't blame me for the culture or the way things have gone down in the past. Men have plenty to answer for in terms of who is screwed and who is kept down be it because of gender or race.
> 
> Maybe this is the price you pay for having had it your way for so long?
> 
> ...



now were getting somewhere. deep seeded gender resentment has a play in the battle for sex too. of course.

my wife is a stay at home mom of 3 (older kids now). her job isnt easy and i full acknowledge that, but she answers to nobody. she isnt held accountable if things dont get done. she can decide what, if anything, she is going to do everyday. she has no pressure as to whether she will get a poor review or get fired. she doesnt have to worry whether her performance is good enough to keep a roof over her families head and food on the table. she surfs the net, watches TV, listens to the radio and the things that she gets mildly stressed over are laughable.

but given all that, she doesn't even have to give her husband what he needs, how easy is that?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm entering late into why your wife isn't having sex with you so if you want to shoot me toward a good thread on the subject or PM me, please do.

Back to this thread : The both of you elected that she would stay home, correct?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

On and off we have struggled with desire levels. Luckily for me - at 47 we are close enough in desire, that the tension is gone. When I was younger I did not handle the difference nearly as gracefully as you are. 

I was way too focused on what I wanted and frankly my wife tolerated more sex than she wanted because that gave her a virtually blank check in every other facet of our marriage. If I had to do it all over again I would try harder not to be so demanding. 

I am ashamed of some of my early behavior - nothing at all like SJM - just selfish not pushy. Still, until you hear the roaring sound of testosterone jack hammering in your ears day after day it is hard to understand just how bad a dry spell can feel. I am glad that the din fades as the years pass. 











dobo said:


> I 100% totally agree that being sex-starved sucks. But when it naturally turns to cheating as it inevitably does, I draw a line.
> 
> I can understand thinking about cheating. I can. But to make it almost acceptable in response to this situation... I just can't go there. It is wrong.
> 
> ...


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

dobo said:


> I'm entering late into why your wife isn't having sex with you so if you want to shoot me toward a good thread on the subject or PM me, please do.
> 
> Back to this thread : The both of you elected that she would stay home, correct?


i wish i knew why she isn't, at least on a more regular basis.

both of us elected for her to stay home, yes


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This was the one huge plus I derived from our - and yes we both felt this way - sex is not optional in marriage - philosophy. And that was - I told my wife that because my frequency was so much higher then hers I was insistent that she tell me honestly what she was feeling in and out of bed. Both non sexual and sexual things. And I listened and adapted. You can say I did it to get sex. This is all I can say to that. I truly deeply love my wife. Way, way more then sex. I had a GF before her who was very, very into me. To the point of being a complete sex toy - bordering on voluntary sex slave. Not interested in that. Love + sex is 10 times better then sex - even with a cute sex slave. But if you marry someone you are really attracted to - like I did - it is too painful to be flooded with testosterone and desire and be rationed to a starvation diet. I would rather end it then have that torment. So I said tell me what works and doesn't work so that this is not a misery for you since you won't be able to tolerate this frequency if you truly don't like/love me and / or having sex with me. So that forced some very unfiltered and sometimes hurtful, but honest communication about various things. 

But if her response had been to just turn off sex when she didn't like what I was doing, instead of forcing communication and sometimes change then that would have been a total deal breaker to me. That is emotional abuse to a high drive man. 






okeydokie said:


> i wish i knew why she isn't, at least on a more regular basis.
> 
> both of us elected for her to stay home, yes


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## silvernblack (Jul 21, 2009)

revitalizedhusband said:


> Maybe I put the word "unfortunately" in the wrong spot, the "unfortunate" part is that men and women are complete opposites in this regard, not that women need to feel an emotional connection first.
> 
> Sorry if I made it sound like I meant that well its unfortunate how women are "wired", when its not in their control how they are wired.
> 
> ...


I've done everything short of writing a manual titled "How to Connect With Me Emotionally". He's blamed it on stress due to money (which I don't get since I pay all the bills and don't have trouble doing so), and last night he blamed it on the fact that I put my 2 year old to bed after 8pm...seriously. So, I've come to the conclusion that he's just a lousy husband. And no, I didn't tell him he's lousy and didn't blame everything on him. I always try to approach problems as "how can we fix..." rather than "it's your fault...". But he always has something to blame his shortcomings on, never himself. And him blaming a 2 year old's bedtime was the last straw. He's about to get divorced for the 3rd time.


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

I haven't read the whole thread.. just the opening post.. sorry if this has been covered..

My advice... I bet he works full time.. like you.. let him have the kids one night all by himself.. then the next night, it's your turn... ask him to have sex the night he's having the kids.. 

I bet he will hire a nanny to help you out... 

Is the house work, kids, etc.. equally shared between you two????


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

Cherry said:


> So why is it fair for me to use all sorts of excuses for not even being a little active for the sake of making my husband happy.


I wouldn't call the reasons for your low sex drive "excuses".
You were in a coma for two weeks.. 
you had a stroke just two months ago.. 
you just started a new medication for birth control...
But none of that matters, the advice of the majority (maybe all??) is that you better hurry up and have have sex with your husband, and make it 3 times+ a week, too!?

This full-time mom of 1 year old twins (and other kids), who works full-time & has severe health issues... her primary concern should be keeping her husband fully satisfied in the bedroom??? 

If your PHYSICIAN said that the last thing on your mind should be sex, then I think you should follow his advice. Your health should come first, then once YOU'RE feeling up to it, address the sexual issues. 

I think there might be too many men who aren't getting enough sex giving advice here.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> now were getting somewhere. deep seeded gender resentment has a play in the battle for sex too. of course.
> 
> my wife is a stay at home mom of 3 (older kids now). her job isnt easy and i full acknowledge that, but she answers to nobody. she isnt held accountable if things dont get done. she can decide what, if anything, she is going to do everyday. she has no pressure as to whether she will get a poor review or get fired. she doesnt have to worry whether her performance is good enough to keep a roof over her families head and food on the table. she surfs the net, watches TV, listens to the radio and the things that she gets mildly stressed over are laughable.
> 
> but given all that, she doesn't even have to give her husband what he needs, how easy is that?


You contradict yourself. First you say that you fully acknowledge your wife's job isn't easy, then you say she isn't accountable to anyone. Um, how about your 3 kids? I'm willing to bet she sets her alarm, just like you, you hard worker, you, and gets up everyday day. I'll bet she starts chores before you're even awake (I know I start my day several hours before my husband, in fact I AM my husband's alarm clock), getting breakfast cooked, waking the kids, getting them dressed, and the list goes on and on, all through the day and night. The difference is that she can take her breaks when she chooses. You get off work at a certain time and your job is done. She doesn't have the luxury of ever punching out and being "done", because she IS never "done". Also, while she doesn't get "reviews" she also gets no paycheck and no positive feedback. I'd LIKE to get reviewed... that would be GREAT, maybe a raise if I'm doing my job well. I am accountable to my children, to the Girl Scouts, to my husband, to my kid's school, for making sure my family stays healthy, for making sure they eat a balanced diet, making sure appointments are kept, homework is done, the house is clean and I could go on and on. 
You are wrong.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

lorithehun said:


> You contradict yourself. First you say that you fully acknowledge your wife's job isn't easy, then you say she isn't accountable to anyone. Um, how about your 3 kids? I'm willing to bet she sets her alarm, just like you, you hard worker, you, and gets up everyday day. I'll bet she starts chores before you're even awake (I know I start my day several hours before my husband, in fact I AM my husband's alarm clock), getting breakfast cooked, waking the kids, getting them dressed, and the list goes on and on, all through the day and night. The difference is that she can take her breaks when she chooses. You get off work at a certain time and your job is done. She doesn't have the luxury of ever punching out and being "done", because she IS never "done". Also, while she doesn't get "reviews" she also gets no paycheck and no positive feedback. I'd LIKE to get reviewed... that would be GREAT, maybe a raise if I'm doing my job well. I am accountable to my children, to the Girl Scouts, to my husband, to my kid's school, for making sure my family stays healthy, for making sure they eat a balanced diet, making sure appointments are kept, homework is done, the house is clean and I could go on and on.
> You are wrong.


first of all you assume she is a highly motivated stay at home mom. yes she is great mother and gets the kids out the door in the morning, we all get up early and get after it. when my work day ends i dont come home and grab the pipe and slippers and sit on my arse the rest of the night. i do all the cooking and there is always a kid sports practice to go to or any of many other chores.

and as for compliments on a job well done, i would be happy to give those out just like i get........zero


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> first of all you assume she is a highly motivated stay at home mom. yes she is great mother and gets the kids out the door in the morning, we all get up early and get after it. when my work day ends i dont come home and grab the pipe and slippers and sit on my arse the rest of the night. i do all the cooking and there is always a kid sports practice to go to or any of many other chores.
> 
> and as for compliments on a job well done, i would be happy to give those out just like i get........zero


You can't be both a great mother and also not accountable and lazy.
*throwing a frying pan at your head*


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

lorithehun said:


> You can't be both a great mother and also not accountable and lazy.
> *throwing a frying pan at your head*



why not, she has 8 hours a day 5 days a week with no kids around. stop giving free passes, even my wife would tell you she isnt a good domestic engineer


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> why not, she has 8 hours a day 5 days a week with no kids around. stop giving free passes, even my wife would tell you she isnt a good domestic engineer


Alright, I concede that it is possible if the kids are all in school and the house is a complete mess. I apologize for being touchy. Also for the frying pan. I just went through the threads you've started and I have a better idea of where you're coming from. You have a very frustrating situation you are trying to deal with. I applaud you for hanging in there and also for looking for help online. If I saw my husband searching for answers online I would be tickled pink... I would be so touched that he placed that sort of value on solving our problems.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

lorithehun said:


> I wouldn't call the reasons for your low sex drive "excuses".
> You were in a coma for two weeks..
> you had a stroke just two months ago..
> you just started a new medication for birth control...
> ...


I suppose this just further illustrates the differences in what men and women interpret.

No one is dismissing her health issues. Cherry conceded that she has - and has had a very low sex drive, assumably resulting from the health issues. She points out that her husband has a high libido. She also indicates that he is a recovering addict, which may or may not play in to how aggressively he pursues what he wants.

She wanted to 'understand' where he is coming from. We told her. And we told her the truth.
I certainly don't want her to jeopardize her health - nor does it seem that she would choose to throw her marriage out the window right now. Who knows, that may change in short order.

But if they maintain the status quo? We all know how that story ends.

If each side can, and is willing to respond to the perspective of the other - hopefully some balance comes out of the equation.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LTH - Your comments about the focus here being too little on this womans health and too much on whether she puts out are fair. We can get overly fixated. Testosterone poisoning. 

>>>>>>>>>>
I do not throw the D word around casually. I plan for my marriage to last my whole life. 

When our third child went into first grade my career was in overdrive. I did not like my job, I very much disliked the stress level - but suddenly we were able to save more then fifty percent of my take home pay even with great schools for the kids, etc, so I was not going to quit regardless of the drawbacks in terms of long hours and travel. 

My wife had been a SAHM for 11 years - which I was perfectly happy with. However, even though I did not press her to work outside the home, when the youngest went to school I did ask her to help me a bit more. Don't get me wrong the kids were always super well cared for, house clean, cooking (LOL - LMAO) - well nobodies perfect - I like to cook - and some nights she cooked. But with the kids in school full time - the oldest doing some extra curricular stuff - the workload was wildly imbalanced - and I felt my requests were getting blown off. 

And for a period of 2 years our fights about workload got worse and worse. It literally took a conversation where she realized I was completely withdrawing from the marriage to get her to respond. Not fun. 

I get how hard it is when the kids are young. I do. As they get older though things change a lot. It is pure nonesense to suggest that being a SAHM with 3 kids in school full time is harder then a 60 hour a week job with sales quotas and travel. I have now done both jobs and can compare. If you manage your time the stay at home gig with kids in school full time rocks in comparison. Easier, more fun way less stress.




lorithehun said:


> Alright, I concede that it is possible if the kids are all in school and the house is a complete mess. I apologize for being touchy. Also for the frying pan. I just went through the threads you've started and I have a better idea of where you're coming from. You have a very frustrating situation you are trying to deal with. I applaud you for hanging in there and also for looking for help online. If I saw my husband searching for answers online I would be tickled pink... I would be so touched that he placed that sort of value on solving our problems.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

Deejo said:


> I suppose this just further illustrates the differences in what men and women interpret.
> 
> No one is dismissing her health issues. Cherry conceded that she has - and has had a very low sex drive, assumably resulting from the health issues. She points out that her husband has a high libido. She also indicates that he is a recovering addict, which may or may not play in to how aggressively he pursues what he wants.
> 
> ...


I didn't read anyone addressing her health issues, in fact they seemed to have been breezed over completely.

Her question wasn't "help me understand where he's coming from". It was (exactly) "I don't know what to do about my sex drive, and I'm tired of stressing over whether he will stray... What can I do?". 

There are extenuating circumstances, the answer can't ALWAYS be "give him more sex". She shouldn't HAVE to worry about him cheating, and it's sad that this has to be her focus right now. Her health issues sound temporary... sex should be able to be put on hold in some situations. And put on hold without fear of him having so little control of himself that he _*must*_ cheat. 

I do see & agree with what you are saying about balance and seeing each other's perspective... and that must be dealt with.... *eventually*.... in order to have a happy marriage... *When* she is well.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> LTH - Your comments about the focus here being too little on this womans health and too much on whether she puts out are fair. We can get overly fixated. Testosterone poisoning.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>
> I do not throw the D word around casually. I plan for my marriage to last my whole life.
> ...


Ha! I really like reading your posts, MEM. You are wise and witty, a great combo..  

However (I see you rolling your eyes) you misunderstood..... I didn't say that I worked harder than my husband or he worked harder than me.. my point was that stay at home moms are, in fact, accountable to many and that a SAHM "gig" is not the cake-walk that the other poster insinuated it was. 
*popping a bonbon into my mouth and propping up my fuzzy-slipper-clad feet*


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

LOL

Enjoy your bon bons I am certain they are fully earned. One big difference in quality of care when Mom is in charge. She is way more selfless. She would read the kids the exact same book as many times in a row as they requested it. She did not refuse or try to steer them to a different story. She would do that day after day, week after week. 

I remember asking her, "so I guess you know The Very Hungry Caterpillar story pretty well". She said I am so sick of that story - I would like to hide that book. But she never did and our kids never knew she was bored. 

She was so good with the kids. Incredible. So much better then me. So selfless. So I agree with the accountability thing. 

Your posts are balanced and rational and create no eye rolling here. Sometimes though, after I read your post I am embarassed for me and my fellow cavemen. 





lorithehun said:


> Ha! I really like reading your posts, MEM. You are wise and witty, a great combo..
> 
> However (I see you rolling your eyes) you misunderstood..... I didn't say that I worked harder than my husband or he worked harder than me.. my point was that stay at home moms are, in fact, accountable to many and that a SAHM "gig" is not the cake-walk that the other poster insinuated it was.
> *popping a bonbon into my mouth and propping up my fuzzy-slipper-clad feet*


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## frozensprouts (Aug 1, 2009)

Cherry,
it sounds as if you have had a really hard go of things in the past little while. You have my sympathy- I can only imagine how you must feel after what you have been through.

have you tried sitting down with your husband and having an in depth discussion about the problem? it sounds like you still love him, but right now, sex just isn't on your radar, for obvious reasons, and the more that he "goes looking elsewhere" ( be it "hook-up sites" etc.) the less you will be interested. Perhaps if you let him know that it's not that you are emotionally rejecting him and it's not that you don't love him, maybe he will understand and take the time and have the patience that will be required to help you feel more "in the mood". Could you view sex as a way to have an "emotional bond' with him? If so, would that help you want to do it more? Is he willing to be patient and understanding with you? If he is, that may help you feel more connected to him and more interested in intimacy.
I know many women that I have talked to find it very difficult to want to have sex when they feel they are just being used, and that it does help if they think that the guy they are with wants to have sex with them to feel close to them and because they love them ( this is aside of all the obvious physical reasons for wanting to have sex)


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

dobo said:


> Maybe if men and women made an equal amount in the marketplace women wouldn't make out so much in a divorce. Maybe if more men were stay-at-home fathers, it wouldn't be this way. But don't blame me for the culture or the way things have gone down in the past. Men have plenty to answer for in terms of who is screwed and who is kept down be it because of gender or race.


That's why statistics can show bold face lies all the time.

When you take the average male wage vs average female wage sure, women make less and that's a great talking point, especially for politicians who want the female vote.

However, when you actually compare it job by job, career by career, women make equal pay to men. The difference is that on average women choose lower paying careers than men.

Trust me, I've been in engineering for a decade now, and no woman engineer is making less than I do because she's a woman.


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## revitalizedhusband (Feb 9, 2009)

Lizzie60 said:


> I haven't read the whole thread.. just the opening post.. sorry if this has been covered..
> 
> My advice... I bet he works full time.. like you.. let him have the kids one night all by himself.. then the next night, it's your turn... ask him to have sex the night he's having the kids..
> 
> ...


Trust me, my wife is a stay at home mom, and I send her out by herself at night many times for this reason alone, because I know she'll come back willing/able to have sex.

If her husband really wants sex that bad, he'll jump at the chance to watch the kids at night if he knows he's getting sex.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

It may be the case in some professional areas, RH, but it isn't in general. And that isn't just because of the career paths chosen.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

frozensprouts said:


> I know many women that I have talked to find it very difficult to want to have sex when they feel they are just being used, and that it does help if they think that the guy they are with wants to have sex with them to feel close to them and because they love them ( this is aside of all the obvious physical reasons for wanting to have sex)


Well, this is what was going through my mind when I came across some of the web url's in his history on the internet. What he appeared to be searching for were true hookup situations. Sex and that's it. That hurts like heck, ya know? 

Here I am disappointed in myself for not having a sex drive and trying to figure out what's wrong, and asking for his patience with me, and I told him that I don't feel it's fair for him either to have to go without. But then a week later, I find out he's searching the internet! At first, I could see the importance of getting my sex drive back... But now as time goes by and I think about his selfishness, it disgusts me! Here I am, I died twice a year ago giving birth to twins, slip into a coma, told when I wake up that my heart has a leaky valve, take meds for that, that stabilizes, then I go back to the doc to get some type of BC because they tell me I'll die if I get pregnant again, the Mirena kills my sex drive, not to mention bleeding for two months straight, then I develop high BP, have a stroke, left paralyzed for two weeks. This isn't a pity party! I've come out stronger for all the crap I've gone through, but my body needs a flipping break!!! He doesn't agree with masturbation, so that's never an option for relieving his crap.... So what's that leave me? Feeling like a blow up doll so he can get his jollys... or else he's gonna go sleep with some stranger off the internet. Nice! Two babies at home, a nice house, good jobs, etc. and he's gonna risk it all to orgasm with a stranger? 

Regardless, I still recognize my issues related to my sex drive, that's why the Mirena is being removed tomorrow, and he's going in to start the vasectomy process. If I remove the stupid hormones, perhaps I'll be more than happy to feel like a blow up doll for his satisfaction!

No offense to anyone, so I apologize if I sound harsh.


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## frozensprouts (Aug 1, 2009)

I can see why you are so upset. He really is treating you badly here. It doesn't sound as if not having sex really is a choice for you, it sounds as of you have medical reasons for not wanting sex right now. I would think, that if he really loved you, he would be a little more understanding of what you are going through.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

Cherry said:


> Well, this is what was going through my mind when I came across some of the web url's in his history on the internet. What he appeared to be searching for were true hookup situations. Sex and that's it. That hurts like heck, ya know?
> 
> Here I am disappointed in myself for not having a sex drive and trying to figure out what's wrong, and asking for his patience with me, and I told him that I don't feel it's fair for him either to have to go without. But then a week later, I find out he's searching the internet! At first, I could see the importance of getting my sex drive back... But now as time goes by and I think about his selfishness, it disgusts me! Here I am, I died twice a year ago giving birth to twins, slip into a coma, told when I wake up that my heart has a leaky valve, take meds for that, that stabilizes, then I go back to the doc to get some type of BC because they tell me I'll die if I get pregnant again, the Mirena kills my sex drive, not to mention bleeding for two months straight, then I develop high BP, have a stroke, left paralyzed for two weeks. This isn't a pity party! I've come out stronger for all the crap I've gone through, but my body needs a flipping break!!! He doesn't agree with masturbation, so that's never an option for relieving his crap.... So what's that leave me? Feeling like a blow up doll so he can get his jollys... or else he's gonna go sleep with some stranger off the internet. Nice! Two babies at home, a nice house, good jobs, etc. and he's gonna risk it all to orgasm with a stranger?
> 
> ...


I think you are entirely correct for feeling a little "used" and and upset by his unspoken threat (by searching online) that if you don't put out he'll be going to get it elsewhere. Your husband needs a wake-up call.. he is being selfish & neglecting your feelings. I hope there is a way you can help him see this.. If you could talk to him just like you've written here maybe he would understand & be more supportive. You should probably try to find a happy medium between the submissive, "give him what he wants and to hell with how I feel", sort of attitude that I heard in your first posts and the anger (righfully so) that I hear now. If you could somehow balance the two and insist that he be considerate of your feelings and health, that might help. Maybe he just isn't getting it, maybe he's blinded by his craving for sex.... men, sheesh...


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Your husband has a lot of nerve doing what he's done. But I wonder if when you told him it isn't fair to him to go without if he took that as permission to find another outlet. And he doesn't believe in masturbation? How unlikely is that? Sounds like hogwash. Something he'll use to justify cheating at some point.

It is good that you want to figure out what's wrong with your drive, though you do have more than enough on your plate, physically. But I wonder if he's really worth putting up with. He sounds like a selfish git, the kind that women when they reach their mid-30s to early 40s, leave because being without them is better than being with them. And replacing them is like falling off a bike.

If he's not careful, he's going to be one of those guys who end up on here with a lot of "boo hoo, I treated her like crap for years and did a lot of insensitive things and now she wants to leave. I'll do anything to fix things..." Too little, too late for far too many.

He'd better wake up and think ahead. His actions NOW very much dictate his future.


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## lorithehun (Sep 22, 2009)

dobo said:


> Your husband has a lot of nerve doing what he's done. But I wonder if when you told him it isn't fair to him to go without if he took that as permission to find another outlet. .


Good point, I'll bet you're exactly right.. the sequence of events points to that being a likely scenario.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

I wanted to thank everyone for your thoughtful and honest replies. Some of you made me really take a step back and look at things I hadn't thought about  We're moving right along, he got fixed, so a few more weeks and we should be clear of the fear of getting pregnant again (something that terrifies me beyond belief!). I got the mirena removed and there has been a slight spike in my overall moods - I feel sexier now internally, that's funny, also I don't find myself "irritated" when my hubby makes a pass at me! In the past week, we've averaged about 4 times sexually in some way shape or form - intercourse is still scary, even with condoms, which are hard to get use to after almost 3 years without them!

Anyways, I get a little upset with him at times when I think about his overall attitude towards all of this, however again with all of your replies, I am able to be a little more understanding! And he's quit surfing the web for hook up sites and I think he see's a light at the end of the tunnel and he also realized how bad that hurt me! 

Thanks everyone, and I really enjoy browsing this site, I'm really happy I stumbled across it


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I hope things continue to improve for you. Tell him if I hear about him being on another hookup site, I'm going to flow through the net, into his mouse, and bust him in the nose with it!


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

dobo said:


> I hope things continue to improve for you. Tell him if I hear about him being on another hookup site, I'm going to flow through the net, into his mouse, and bust him in the nose with it!



Thanks Dobo!


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