# Alimony



## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

This is something I never gave much thought to until this morning driving into work.

I'm planning on doing everything I can to help my wife and kids if we final, so please don't think I'm trying to get out of anything.

Child support is to help take care of kids. Easy to understand.

Alimony is to pay spouse to....what? Can they not get a job? Is it a severance package for stay at home parents? The spouse getting alimony had everything paid for while married, everything was split at the D, so why should they continue to get paid when they aren't married anymore?

Again, not being mean, spiteful, anything. I believe I was thinking about the ladies that divorce from really rich guys, who then get a huge alimony this morning and was curious if anyone knew why this happens. I'm sure there is a logical explanation, but I don't know it.

Thank you in advance.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer,

Which state laws governs any alimony in your situation? The state in which W filed or the new state that you will move to?


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Where filed. My wife wants to go to nursing school, and I'm going to help her do that. 

Just a random thought I had and was curious as to what the purpose of it is.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer j said:


> Where filed. My wife wants to go to nursing school, and *I'm going to help her do that.*


That is very honorable. Make sure you handle this financially the best way possible for you AND her. Alimony is tax deductible to you and taxable to her as income. 

Check to see what is the tax situation if you help with her education - education credits etc. Being divorced might limit your options on tax credits. 

I know this sounds cold, but doing what is best for both of you financially is prudent.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Maybe a contact could be drawn up to consider you helping her with nursing school in factoring how long she gets alimony. 

You could pay it for an amount of time that is reasonable for her to finish nursing school.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> I know this sounds cold, but doing what is best for both of you financially is prudent.


 Not necessarily, if this is an amicable Divorce and free from the usual stuff we hear about, his wife, or soon to be ex wife (Whichever is preferred) will still be involved and a source of dependency for their children, and invariably what helps her out will help the kids. 

Of course, limiting your help to a comfortable level of aide vs breaking your back should be set as a standard, no sense in pouring all your aide into someone else's well being as he will find that the cost will be his own lively hood.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Yes we have already discussed these things. Once we get moved, new jobs found (she knows she is going to have to find something part time), housing figured out, etc. Then we will figure out what she needs and what I can give.

She understands, no point in trying to take everything I make, as the kids are with me half the time. The other big kick in the nuts we found out at tax time, is I'm going to get royally screwed in taxes now. As in I could file 0 and take an additional $500 per check and maybe I'll break even with the IRS.

Then again, I'm holding out hope she cancels and I don't have to worry about it. I doubt it, but you never know.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

MSprings said:


> The history of alimony is interesting.
> 
> In a time not long ago, men were the bread winners and women took care of the family. All property was titled in men's names. When the couple decided to split, the woman was very vulnerable as she had no property, little or no job experience, and few opportunities. The courts and legislatures fashioned alimony to help the women. It was usually lifetime support.
> 
> Fast forward a few decades. Property is held in both people's names and women can now have their own bank accounts and credit cards. At divorce, property is usually split equally and women have many more opportunities to find employment. The only thing that hasn't change is experience. If the couple decides the wife should stay at home to take care of the family, she hasn't had work experience in years. Employers care about job history and someone who hasn't been in the work place for years is considered an unknown quantity. She could be great, but employers all things being equal the employer will likely select a candidate with documented work history. Also, consider your annual raises. Even if she finds a job, she's sacrificed years of raises and experience.



That makes sense I guess. They should be able to then subtract all the good things the stay at home parent gets to experience that the working parent misses out on. Like first steps and words, field trips and other school activities, summers off with the kids. While the working parent gets up every day puts in countless hours at a place they don't want to be, just so the fam has what they want/need.

Sorry engineer thinking.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Homer j said:


> The other big kick in the nuts we found out at tax time, is I'm going to get royally screwed in taxes now. As in I could file 0 and take an additional $500 per check and maybe I'll break even with the IRS.


Off topic, but you brought it up. Have you agreed on the split on how the kids are handled tax-wise? Would you alternate years in which you claim them as dependents?

Also consider that if her income is lower, the exemptions for the kids could be at 15% rate vs maybe 25% rate for you. So all this should be considered in the Agreement. You might consider having the kids on your 1040 (Head of Household filing with kids for you, single for her) each year, but you compensate your wife for that in some way for the years that she would claim them. 

Something else on your long list to consider.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Yes we have discussed alternating them. It might be figuring it both ways and seeing who gets back more and splitting it. Just rolling with it for now.

We also looked into taking $$ out of my 401k in her name, that she would then pay off any loan's we have. We would then split what's left of my 401k. If she has the kids year one, even with the tax penalties she wouldn't owe anything. Wouldn't get much back, but at least the loans are gone.

We are working together to see how we can save as much $$ between us as we can. Odd, don't married people do that, not those that are divorcing?


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

In my state it's called spousal support and is limited. 

I received spousal support. My ex husband and I agreed to stay at home with the kids and take care of the household. I did it all. I was happy to as well. He was a high income earner so money wasn't a problem. I stayed home for years while attending school as well. 

He decided he wanted out of the marriage due to "I love you but I am not in love with you." A.K.A. "I am having an affair."

I hasn't been in the workforce, for years, and then was blindsided with minimal prep. 

He agreed to a set amount for 3 years. I got a full time job (entry level) before the divorce and worked my way up to owning my own business. It helped and I am grateful.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Homer j said:


> Yes we have already discussed these things. Once we get moved, new jobs found (she knows she is going to have to find something part time), housing figured out, etc. Then we will figure out what she needs and what I can give.
> 
> She understands, no point in trying to take everything I make, as the kids are with me half the time. The other big kick in the nuts we found out at tax time, is I'm going to get royally screwed in taxes now. As in I could file 0 and take an additional $500 per check and maybe I'll break even with the IRS.
> 
> Then again, I'm holding out hope she cancels and I don't have to worry about it. I doubt it, but you never know.


Alimony is tax deductible to the payer (you) and taxable to the payee (her). So there is at least that.

When it comes to child support, the default is that child support is no tax deductible. However there are ways to handle this that can help. You and your STBX can sign an IRS form that will allow you two to choose which years each of you take your children as a tax deduction.

For example my ex and I agreed that each of us would be able to take the deduction for our son in alternating years. I got 1996, 1998, etc (the even numbered years). My ex got 1997, 1999, etc (the odd numbered years).


The IRS form 8332, Release/Revocation of *Release of Claim to Exemption for Child by Custodial Parent*

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8332.pdf


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Most alimony these days is rehabilitative. Helping her through nursing school sounds like it fits the rehabilitative model.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I've been married almost 8 years and I'll be paying alimony for 3 years. Probably $300 or $400 a month. I'm trying to negotiate out of it though, because I'm letting her get more $ by allowing her to take the house if she can refinance it on her own. 

Why does divorce cost so much money? Because it's worth it! Just keep telling yourself that....


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

Alimony is tax deductible to the payer (you) and taxable to the payee (her). So there is at least that.


I could have sworn we asked our tax person this and they said it wasn't. Will need to recheck it.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Divorce court has always been unfair to men and probably always will be. Alimony does make sense to be either. I don't understand why a woman can continue to suck money out of you when you are divorced.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Be very careful, and do tons of research, before taking money out of a 401k. If it is part of a court ordered divorce settlement, and it goes into a 401k (or maybe an IRA but not a Roth) in her name, there should be no taxes. But don't take my word on that, do real research! But if you take it out to pay off loans or to simply write her a check, it is taxable income plus there are hefty penalties. Taking money out of the 401k should be a very very last choice when you're facing homelessness or other similar true catastrophe.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Alimony is tax deductible and reportable as income.... child support is not.

A close friend works for IRS criminal investigations. ... she has the best work stories.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pineapple (Apr 9, 2016)

Thor said:


> Be very careful, and do tons of research, before taking money out of a 401k. If it is part of a court ordered divorce settlement, and it goes into a 401k (or maybe an IRA but not a Roth) in her name, there should be no taxes. But don't take my word on that, do real research! But if you take it out to pay off loans or to simply write her a check, it is taxable income plus there are hefty penalties. Taking money out of the 401k should be a very very last choice when you're facing homelessness or other similar true catastrophe.


If money is taken out of the 401k through a court ordered QDRO as part of the divorce, there is no 10% penalty, but you have to pay taxes on it. If it's rolled over into an IRA, then there is no penalty or taxes.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

My state has an odd attitude about alimony. The basic rule is less than 10 yrs of marriage, no alimony. So you can ditch the spouse who worked to put you through college and owe nothing to them. Between 10 yrs and 20 yrs, you pay year for year. Meaning, if you were married 16 years, you'd pay alimony for 16 yrs. 20+ years is permanent alimony.

The formula used here is to total up all the income and divide it by two. Each spouse therefore gets half of the total income.

There isn't the idea of rehabilitation where a stay-at-home-mom (very common situation here) gets some time to go learn job skills. It isn't based on fairness where you have to provide some payback of some sort for being put through medical school.

There isn't even a law allowing egregious behavior to be considered. For example, a cheating stay at home spouse filing for divorce while the BS wants to try to save the 30 yr marriage. The cheater will get permanent alimony. Or the new doc who dumps his wife within 10 yrs of the wedding, he will owe no alimony.

In our state the original concept was based on the idea of women not having paying full time jobs, in which case alimony makes some sense. But we have the no-fault divorce and no-fault alimony, which team up to be terribly unfair in many situations.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Homer j said:


> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Alimony is tax deductible to the payer (you) and taxable to the payee (her). So there is at least that.
> ...


If your "tax person" told you that alimony is not tax deductible to the payer, get a new tax person.. they are incompetent. Here is the rule right out of the IRS Publication 17.



*How To Deduct Alimony Paid *


You can deduct alimony you paid, whether or not you itemize deductions on your return. You must file Form 1040. You cannot use Form 1040A or Form 1040EZ. 

Enter the amount of alimony you paid on Form 1040, line 31a. In the space provided on line 31b, enter your spouse's social security number (SSN) or individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN). 

If you paid alimony to more than one person, enter the SSN or ITIN of one of the recipients. Show the SSN or ITIN and amount paid to each additional recipient on an attached statement. Enter your total payments on line 31a. 



*How To Report Alimony Received *


Report alimony you received as income on Form 1040, line 11, or on Schedule NEC (Form 1040NR), line 12. You cannot use Form 1040A or Form 1040EZ. 

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch18.html#en_US_2015_publink1000172908


.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sapientia said:


> Agreed, with some kind of time limit, say, 5 years. We covered this in another thread. Maybe we could provide the link? I can't easily find it or I would.
> 
> I don't believe that lifelong support should exist except in grandfathered cases where the marriage was a very long term one and one of the spouses didn't work. Hard to get retrained in your 60s or 70s.


This is very dependent on the OP's state. If he would share the state in which he lives, we could give links and more info.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Depends on the state, how long you have been married, what the earnings are for each spouse, the ability to financially support ones self, living expenses, etc.

In many cases of alimony the wife has not had a career that she can support herself outside of the marriage so here is a judgement for a length of time for a certain amount to help the spouse get on her feet. In other cases you have a wife who has been the stay at home mom who raised the children and did all the things at home but was not climbing the career ladder like her husband, and 20+ years into the marriage she finds herself looking at divorce and no means to truly support herself. 

In either situation I believe alimony is perfectly justified.


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