# If She Is Better Looking



## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

Premise: She either is or thinks she is better looking than he is.

Q: If true then is it likely that she will periodically be disappointed throughout the relationship?
Q: If true then is it likely that she may not be able to have sex that is meaningful enough for him to feel satisfied?
Q: If true then is it likely that she may eventually move on for one reason or another?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

None of the above. Too many factors that are far more important in decision making. However, if she is so shallow as to consciously think about this regarding her man, she’s not long term material anyway.

If she’s in love with you, you’re the most handsome man to her.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Hmmm....well, I wouldn't really think of it as "better looking" than my partner. But if I was not attracted to my partner, in that case, all 3 questions the answer would be yes, or at least, eventually yes.

I wouldn't enter a relationship with someone I wasn't attracted to. But let's say when we started out I was attracted to him and then he changed (gained a bunch of weight, for example). If that happened then yes to all 3 questions. Eventually.

But I have been in relationships with men who it seemed from feedback from the outside world that the general consensus was that I was "better looking" than him. In those cases, that never mattered to me. I was strongly attracted to those men and I never stopped being strongly attracted to them. (They also did not gain a bunch of weight or change in some significant way during our relationship). If anyone made any type of hurtful comment to either of us about this perceived "better looking" thing, I would quickly remove them from my circle of friends, because that's just rude and mean spirited to say. It didn't happen often, though. In those relationships, I usually heard from people after we had broken up that they felt I was "better looking" and it was usually said in a soft enough way that it didn't annoy me.

So I think what you would need to do is be sure that there is strong attraction toward you from her, regardless if she is "better looking" than you. Just be sure that she isn't attracted to something other than your physical self....like your money or your car. If she is attracted to you because you have other things like that, then her physical attraction to you isn't going to remain there over time.

For me anyway, physical/sexual attraction is either there or it isn't and I can feel it within my body immediately. In cases where I've felt some attraction but not a strong attraction, and then hoped attraction would grow over time, it never did.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

You are trying to make a very complicated multi variable equation into a true false question. High self perceived value is one of many factors that could lead to the undesirable outcomes you enumerated. After reading this and other forums for years, I have two suggestions for you. 

- Consider that the real way to avoid these outcomes is to build a strong emotional connection based on Trust, Love, and consideration of all emotional needs.

- Consider that a confident woman who knows what she wants is a much easier person to live with. 

If she perceives that she is attractive, and She finds you to be just the person she wants, don't go hunting for trouble.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

WAY too many variables when you account for individuals to make any kind of broad or accurate statements regarding these questions. These are micro (the individual matters) rather than macro questions. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - "better looking" I guess we are talking about how they stack up on conventional beauty standards? 



MutualRespect said:


> Premise: She either is or thinks she is better looking than he is.


I am perhaps a bit more conventionally "better looking" than my husband (well, he at least thinks I am). I will try to answer your questions. 



MutualRespect said:


> Q: If true then is it likely that she will periodically be disappointed throughout the relationship?


Disappointed? In what? "Wishing he looked better" or? I do not find myself disappointed in my husbands looks. He maintains a healthy weight, looks the same as when I met him for the most part.



MutualRespect said:


> Q: If true then is it likely that she may not be able to have sex that is meaningful enough for him to feel satisfied?


I am attracted to my husband, and let him know it. There is one thing I have learned, being desired is very important. 

So, for me, no, never been a problem, I don't have relationships or sex with people I am not attracted to. Doesn't matter if *I* am better looking or not, it depends if I am attracted to him. For most women "looks" play only a small role in attraction. The way he treats us, his masculinity, his success etc are often bigger factors in attraction. 



MutualRespect said:


> Q: If true then is it likely that she may eventually move on for one reason or another?


If she is not attracted to her partner, then yes, it is likely that the relationship will not last. If she IS attracted to him, all of this stuff doesn't really matter.


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

I generally end up on either side of my premise, and the three undesirable outcomes mentioned seem to be predictable, despite attempts to build the relationship around the more important characteristics such as mutual respect for who we are as people.

One person ends up being satisfied and one doesn't.

I like what FW said:
"Just be sure that she isn't attracted to something other than your physical self....like your money or your car. If she is attracted to you because you have other things like that, then her physical attraction to you isn't going to remain there over time."

This part "Just be sure that she isn't attracted to something other than your physical self" leads to another challenge. What if you are both just semi-attracted physically, but "can get" turned on by each-other when needed. I think that works as long as you continue to build on positive shared attributes of personhood and you both genuinely like each other.

I think it might be a small physical window that each of us needs to find, and I think it's really small, regardless of anything else.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MutualRespect said:


> Premise: She either is or thinks she is better looking than he is.
> 
> Q: If true then is it likely that she will periodically be disappointed throughout the relationship?
> Q: If true then is it likely that she may not be able to have sex that is meaningful enough for him to feel satisfied?
> Q: If true then is it likely that she may eventually move on for one reason or another?


This is easy if any of these are true she is not in any way mature enough to be in a relationship with. In life you learn there is always someone better looking. Besides that we age. This whole thing is the wrong question.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Hmmm....well, I wouldn't really think of it as "better looking" than my partner. But if I was not attracted to my partner, in that case, all 3 questions the answer would be yes, or at least, eventually yes.
> 
> I wouldn't enter a relationship with someone I wasn't attracted to. But let's say when we started out I was attracted to him and then he changed (gained a bunch of weight, for example). If that happened then yes to all 3 questions. Eventually.
> 
> ...


Your post should be required reading for high school graduates.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I have always considered my wife better looking than myself. There have been periods where I was not good looking at all. For most of our marriage, I was extremely overweight. Carried around between 280 lbs to my top weight of 335 lbs. I had extreme body dysmorphia, and did not really recognize my weight. I got religion after two heart attacks, and took ten years after the last to get my health back. I say that our looks are about equal these days, I have a "built". I have been body building since I lost most of the weight. I have pecs and am showing the beginnings of a six-pack. Looks really great with the face of a bloodhound. My wife has always had an extremely pretty face, but she inherited her Dad's aquiline nose. I think it gives her face character. She was always self conscious about her weight, which OK, when we were first married, she was heavy like me. She got it all off and has maintained between 120 and 130. All of her weight is in her bust and derriere, exactly the places I like. 

We really do not think about looks, I like the way she looks and I think she likes the way I look, and after 40 years of marriage, 46 years together, I still crave her. She is the first person I want to see in the morning and the last person I see at night. And that is the way I like it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Steve1000 said:


> Your post should be required reading for high school graduates.


Sadly, there is a lot of complete crap out there which young men typically get a hold of and read up about....which tells men exactly the opposite of what I said in my post.

Things like, if you are a 4 and she is a 6, you can compensate for this difference by having a lot of money or a nice car. 

Or that you can add to your "perceived value" by somehow making it seem like a bunch of hot women are after you (even though they aren't). Example: in your dating profile, put in a picture of you laughing with a bunch of hot girls (could be your sister's friends who would never date you, but that part doesn't matter, it is the "perceived value" that is apparently important in the scum bag pick up culture rule book).

Granted, true pick up scum bags are only wanting to get laid once by whatever girl is hotter than himself (because apparently, screwing a girl who is less hot than yourself is not considered a "score"). So they aren't worried about long term attraction.

But the sad part is that young men who just want real interactions with women get ahold of this nonsense and start following the scum bag rule book, simply not knowing any better. Then they hope that the girl not only has sex with him, but also falls in love with him.

It doesn't work like that. If you follow the scum bag pick up rules, you are not going to get with someone who is actually attracted to you. You will simply get with a woman who was so bored she would "sleep down" with you and only because she thinks you have a nice car.

The scum bag rules are never worried about ACTUAL attraction from women. They think it isn't necessary that she is ACTUALLY attracted to you. 

Yet in the real world....most men truly want a woman who is attracted to him, cares about him, respects him, etc. So it is sad how many of them fall down that scum bag rabbit hole before they figure it out.

The "if she's hotter than you she will ditch your ass as soon as a hotter man comes along" is part of the scum bag play book, too. They pretend this is "science" and call it "hypergamy". They tell each other over and over that EVERY woman is pre-programmed to do this. The only way to make a woman NOT do this if she is hotter than you is to have a lot of money, because apparently this negates the hypergamy gene.

But like I said in my post, it isn't the "hotter than you" part that matters. It is whether she is truly attracted to you to begin with that matters.


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> The "if she's hotter than you, she will ditch your ass as soon as a hotter man comes along" is part of the scum bag playbook, too. They pretend this is "science" and call it "hypergamy". They tell each other over and over that EVERY woman is pre-programmed to do this. The only way to make a woman NOT do this if she is hotter than you is to have a lot of money, because apparently, this negates the hypergamy gene.
> 
> But like I said in my post, it isn't the "hotter than you" part that matters. It is whether she is truly attracted to you, to begin with, that matters.


I had never heard of the term "hypergamy" and while this site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy sees it as a social class term and not a term about physical attractiveness, what you said about it is interesting.

I agree that this belief that "It is whether she is truly attracted to you, to begin with, that matters" but I would add in the terms [physically, emotionally, and intellectually] after the word truly.

If all three aren't there, then the relationship is on shaky ground. They all have to be there but her being a 6 and you being a 4 in terms of physical attractiveness, doesn't really matter too much.

That said, I think it's easy for both sides to see allot of either physical, emotional, and/or intellectual compatibility, and erroneously negate the importance of "some" compatibility with respect to the other compatibility attributes. I think that regardless of social standing, money, professional credentials, etc, at least some part of ALL the compatibility attributes (and I probably missed some), need to be there.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MutualRespect said:


> I had never heard of the term "hypergamy" and while this site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy sees it as a social class term and not a term about physical attractiveness, what you said about it is interesting.
> 
> I agree that this belief that "It is whether she is truly attracted to you, to begin with, that matters" but I would add in the terms [physically, emotionally, and intellectually] after the word truly.
> 
> ...


Re: hypergamy....the way I described it is in no way an actual thing. It is something that the pick up artist movement invented. It was invented because creepy idiots always wonder why women leave them, so they try to ascribe the behavior to how women are essentially evil and always looking for a bigger better deal. They can't possibly understand that women leave them because they are simply not good men.

As for the bolded...yeah other things have to be there, but trust me, actual raw physical attraction has to be there as the foundation before anything else. If it isn't, all those other things are not going to make any difference. And I'm not saying that means men have to look a certain way in order to be attractive. Women are attracted to all types of men, all shapes and sizes and ages. The key is to find a woman who is specifically attracted to YOU. If she is physically attracted to you, all of the other good things will add to her attraction for you. But if you try to build from other things...the raw physical attraction is never going to be there if it isn't a natural thing she feels for you without any other bells or whistles.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

MutualRespect said:


> Premise: She either is or thinks she is better looking than he is.
> 
> Q: If true then is it likely that she will periodically be disappointed throughout the relationship?
> Q: If true then is it likely that she may not be able to have sex that is meaningful enough for him to feel satisfied?
> Q: If true then is it likely that she may eventually move on for one reason or another?


Women born from the 1950s to 1980s often have the view that women, in general, are more attractive than men. I can't deny the validity of this claim, either. So, if she DOESN'T think she's better looking than him, it's likely that she's feeling outclassed. Very few women want their men to outclass them, visually.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

MutualRespect said:


> Premise: She either is or thinks she is better looking than he is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This seems like a very superficial premise which maybe requires a superficial answer. Lets put it this way: give it a couple of years and even the hottest woman will have her age catch up with her very quickly. Why is it problem if she moves onto someone else to become somebody else’s disappointment?

I don’t think I could ever even begin to think in those terms in my marriage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Re: hypergamy....the way I described it is in no way an actual thing. It is something that the pick up artist movement invented. It was invented because creepy idiots always wonder why women leave them, so they try to ascribe the behavior to how women are essentially evil and always looking for a bigger better deal. They can't possibly understand that women leave them because they are simply not good men.


Now come on, describing it like this and to say that women don't leave good men for more money or status is just as bad as citing the other extreme that all women do this. 

Women do this on a daily basis. It is often the real root of affairs, not always but often. 

Men do this on a daily basis as well, although it is usually for a younger higher status (it terms of looks) woman. 

Whatever word you use for it, both sexes do this all the time, so it really boils down to people to this to each other. 

As too the question of this thread... do men (and I guess women??) actually think like this? I understand that I am older, but this is how I have always thought about it: 

I have been with more than my share of women, of all types... young, older, thin, heavier, tall, short, extremely beautiful (as society judges), average, exotic, swim suit model types and some actual swim suit models. 

Some were by some measure (which is always subjective) better looking than me, and I guess some were not, because I never really thought about it that much. 

I always thought that if a woman wanted to be with me, she would be with me. If she did not she would not. I never thought about looks being the number one thing. 

In fact the number one thing IMHO is "not crazy". My current GF is great. She is beautiful, sexy, loving, affectionate, GREAT in bed even though she is a little inexperienced (she is a natural, and learns super quick)... really she is just almost perfect.

But you know what is her best quality, not crazy...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> Now come on, describing it like this and to say that women don't leave good men for more money or status is just as bad as citing the other extreme that all women do this.
> 
> Women do this on a daily basis. It is often the real root of affairs, not always but often.
> 
> ...


Yes. BOTH genders do this to each other all the time. Totally agree! Some people are jerks.

But hypergamy is a very specific term in the "pick up" world that MEN ascribe to ONLY WOMEN. These same men talk about how all they want from a chick is to bang her, then talk about how chicks are evil beings who don't know what love means.

This idea is passed around among creepy weirdo guys and again they claim that ONLY women do this. They further claim that men are the ones who wish to be emotional and close, but they can't take that chance since women are so evil. Then out of the other side of their face they say they only want to bang women. Then they say they want love. Then they say everything bad in the world and society is because of evil women riding around on the c*** carousel. 

Then they try to claim that hypergamy (again only in women) is a SCIENTIFIC FACT and then point to no actual scientific facts. I would link you to some of the horrible crap they say on these ridiculous blogs but it is just too squicky to even look them up.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes. BOTH genders do this to each other all the time. Totally agree! Some people are jerks.
> 
> But hypergamy is a very specific term in the "pick up" world that MEN ascribe to ONLY WOMEN. These same men talk about how all they want from a chick is to bang her, then talk about how chicks are evil beings who don't know what love means.
> 
> ...


Trippy, who knew...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> Trippy, who knew...


Wish I had never heard of it.....can't unlearn it now though, it is too late.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

True enough the whole premise of this thread is Hypergamy. The idea that people are always looking for a bigger better deal. From my Demi sexual point of view spending any emotion on such a person is useless. It is very hard for me to people that are more normative than me as less than hypergamous. When your possible sexual partners are under 2% of the population you don't think much about trading up.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Hmmm....
> 
> For me anyway, physical/sexual attraction is either there or it isn't and I can feel it within my body immediately. .


I agree with this part. For me the attraction grows over time, my XW I was very attracted to her when I was emotionally involved but since divorce and she has gained weight I do not consider her attractive at all.

My Current GF I thought was OK looking but nothing special when we first went out(she said same about me) we hit it off and she has become more and more beautiful every time I see her.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MovingForward said:


> I agree with this part. For me the attraction grows over time, my XW I was very attracted to her when I was emotionally involved but since divorce and she has gained weight I do not consider her attractive at all.
> 
> My Current GF I thought was OK looking but nothing special when we first went out(she said same about me) we hit it off and she has become more and more beautiful every time I see her.


Attraction grows for me too, _exponentially_ if everything else is awesome (connection, mutual respect, laughing together all the time). But if I don't feel that certain *ping* in my body when I first see them, it won't grow enough to be a red hot attraction even if everything else is good. I've tried that enough times to know not to try it again because all the other warm fuzzy feelings in the world can't overcome my need to feel a strong, innate physical attraction for someone. It is like my body tells me if I'm attracted or not, and if I don't heed that signal (whether yes or no) I will be sorry later.

Also I can feel physical attraction, even strongly, but if they open their mouths and unkind or unintelligent things come out of it, the attraction is gone in an instant.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Appearance isn't a scalar quantity - there is no strict ordering, no way to apply a number to each person. In most cases there is no way to say which person in a marriage is most attractive. 

What matters is how attractive they are to each other.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

MutualRespect said:


> Premise: She either is or thinks she is better looking than he is.
> 
> Q: If true then is it likely that she will periodically be disappointed throughout the relationship?
> Q: If true then is it likely that she may not be able to have sex that is meaningful enough for him to feel satisfied?
> Q: If true then is it likely that she may eventually move on for one reason or another?


I think the term "better looking" is largely predicated on how confident one is about themselves. I think confidence is probably the number one factor in how good looking one is. Confidence in your self makes you smile, it makes you project more and more willing to take chances.
So if one is talking about one partner being more confident than the other then the underlying assumption behind your query would be correct.
In any uneven relationship those questions would be significant. It is often why two people lacking confidence may come together in codependency.

But I have seen physically unattractive women (to me) projecting so much self confidence and radiance that they are very attractive and seen physically attractive women do the opposite.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

To apply this to only good looks is slicing too small of a piece of the attraction pie. 

In the animal world, the boys are the pretty ones with their big manes of hair, bright plumage and big antlers etc. The females are often plain looking and less brightly colored so as to be less visable to predators while sitting on the nest.

(in other words, part of the role of males being brighter and prettier is so they get eaten first, sparring the mother and babies in the nest)


However in humans, the females are the visually appealing ones and the ones who's market value in mating is determined primarily by beauty. The males are the ones that are visually dull and uninspiring. 

sure there are some guys that are better looking than others, but very very few males that compare to even an average female. 

And looks only provide a certain amount of a male's market value where as looks provide a majority of a female's market value. 

If we were going to live in a monogamous society and people could only be paired up with someone of exactly equal visual value of themselves - only a few men and women would ever mate because there simply aren't enough good looking men to go around. 

Most women would not be able to find mates to match their beauty and their reproductive abilities would go to waste. And most men would just be left behind and unable to mate and large populations of single males is very harmful and deleterious to a society (ie drunkenness, unemployment, drug addiction, violence, rape etc) 

If a societies mating strategy was based solely on physical looks and monogamy was not an expectation, then a very small percentage of the males would breed with most of the women and the vast majority of males would simply go without and would be left behind. 


The saving grace to all of this is a man's beauty is only part of what makes up his overall mating market value. Other factors like social status, earning power, social skills, character etc etc all weigh into his market value.

And another saving grace is women's diversity in what they find desirable in a mate. While everyone will appreciate a partner that is nice to look at, there are women that will over look certain flaws in a man's appearance for other traits and characteristics that she deems more important. 

This diversity in attraction does and the fact that other traits and characteristics can influence a man's market value does help distribute out and helps equalize some of the numbers of potential mates. 

There are still going to be a percentage of left over males that are just not breeding or relationship material. But the smaller that percentage in a given society, the better.


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## rfisk (Jan 4, 2017)

Excellent point Oldshirt. You've articulated what I've always instinctively felt.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Also I can feel physical attraction, even strongly, but if they open their mouths and unkind or unintelligent things come out of it, the attraction is gone in an instant.


Same


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well I dunno, beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all.

I rate my girl a 9, and she rates me a 9. Even though she's not as shallow as me - if at all, she seems pretty happy to able to show me off 'this is my BF' and I'm happy she's proud of me. Don't get that if shes gonna rate you low.

Personally I would prefer comparable physical standards but that's just me. Beauty is not universal after all so why the hell would you go for someone you're not even attracted to? Meh


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> None of the above. Too many factors that are far more important in decision making. However, if she is so shallow as to consciously think about this regarding her man, she’s not long term material anyway.
> 
> If she’s in love with you, you’re the most handsome man to her.


*I really think that the reverse could be true, in that if she overtly thinks that she's indeed the better looking of the two, that the open display of such could actually serve to drive a wedge between the two and ultimately succeed in driving her partner away!*


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## ericthesane (May 10, 2013)

Consider this:

In any large set of men, that rate the looks of a large set of women in terms of looks within their own age bracket, the average man will rate the average women higher than the average.

Change the roles around: the average man is perceived by a large set of women to be less good looking than the average.


also: A smart woman will never go out with a man that is better looking than her.


(and yes, it is important here to note that I here use the terms 'looks' and 'good looking' and NOT the term 'Attractive')


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