# New here



## ms1jac

I suppose like so many who have come before me, I am taking the first steps towards reaching out and seeking advice. I have no friends and no close relatives so I am hoping that the members of this group can sit and have a beer with me (figuratively Speaking). So let me get right to it...

I have been married for 34 years and to be honest, the last 15 or so have been pure misery. I guess I still love my wife, but I can't honestly say that I am "in love" with my wife. Out of respect for her I will try not to make this a rant against her by bashing her. besides, I know I have my own flaws. Lately, I have been having thoughts of perusing my happiness by ending this toxic environment, but like for so many years leading up to this point, I sort of just suck it up and just go with the flow. But after all of these years, I just don't know how much more I can take. I despise the saying "happy wife, happy life"... I'm 55 yo, don't I deserve to be happy as well? 
My wife and I don't communicate and spend more time fussing with one another rather than acting in a way that a couple of 34 years probably should be acting. We tried marriage counseling several years but that didn't work out. Both of our kids are grown and on their own so I feel like there is no reason for me to stick around except for the knowledge of investing 34 years of my life into this...it's a lot to throw away. 

Here's another dimension into all of this. I met a women who I find myself to be very attracted to. She is also unhappily married (20 years) but shares the same attraction towards me. No physical relationship has evolved but we clearing seem to connect with one another. Sometimes I sit and just think what life would be like if I just started over and I'm sure she thinks the same as well. The odd thing is, she and I are so opposite from one another. To start with, she African American, body covered in tattoos, very religious, hardcore Democrat and likes to keep a large circle of friends. I'm NONE of that! But she is kind, sweet, and caring and has a zest for life...and my wife is not.

The race issue probably isn't too much of an issue because if our relationship ever developed, I'm positive my daughters would accept her and be supportive. I don't know if the same would be true from her side of the family though. But I'm not deeply religious and I lean more conservative. I think to myself that perhaps we could get past all of that, but would we both be able to get past leaving our spouses of 20 & 34 years to be together. 
Any advice? Should I just ride this storm and live out the vow of "til death do we part" Should I distance myself from this other women so that any decision I make about my current marriage isn't clouded by wanting to pursue a relationship with her?
Sitting here typing I just realized how long this message is so I should probably end it here. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## bobert

So out of "respect" for your wife you won't say what the marital problems are, but you will have an emotional affair with another woman and dream of running off into the sunset with her? Come on. Respect your wife all the time... not just when it's convenient for you and what's in your pants.

Read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

You need to back off from this other woman. If you want to flirt with, get close to, date, or do more with another woman... it needs to be as a divorced man. As long as she is in the picture you will continue to be miserable about your wife.

What about your wife/marriage makes you so miserable? Why didn't marriage counseling work? How often did you go? Did you both do the homework the MC gave you, or did you just show up and empty your wallet?

Is this woman really so great when you're both thinking about leaving your spouse for each other? And if you haven't talked about that, stop deluding yourself into thinking you'd both leave your spouse's and run off into the sunset together. You say your kids would accept a black, tattooed woman... Cool, but would they accept the woman you met while married and left their mother for?

Did you spend the last 15 years knowing you were miserable? Or did you suddenly realize that when this new woman came into your life?

No, you shouldn't stay together if you are miserable but there is a proper order to handle things. That order doesn't involve finding your wife's replacement first.


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## ms1jac

*What about your wife/marriage makes you so miserable? *
_She is so negative. everything that comes out of her mouth is negative in some way. Not just towards me, but towards everyone. it's toxic. She doesn't appreciate the thing I do...on top of the income (to which she'll say I need to earn more), I do more than my fair share of household chores. she nags, complains about everything and there isn't any communication between us. It's like we're just riding out the clock until one of us kicks the bucket._

*Why didn't marriage counseling work? How often did you go? Did you both do the homework the MC gave you, or did you just show up and empty your wallet?*
_I tried to "do the work" with her but she didn't want to saying that "this is all stupid and no one else is going to tell me how to be married" we quit going after about 10 sessions because she felt it was a waste of time._

*Is this woman really so great when you're both thinking about leaving your spouse for each other? *_Besides the differences that I mentioned before, yes, I believe she is great - if nothing else, she is pleasant to be around._
*
And if you haven't talked about that, stop deluding yourself into thinking you'd both leave your spouse's and run off into the sunset together. *
_Yes, me and the other woman have had that discussion, but we are both confused and unclear as to how to answer that question._

*You say your kids would accept a black, tattooed woman... Cool, but would they accept the woman you met while married and left their mother for?*
Our kids know that she is mean, rude, constantly negative. What I forgot to mention was that both daughters are adopted and in some cases, I can see that there doesn't seem to be much of a bond between them anyway. 

*Did you spend the last 15 years knowing you were miserable? Or did you suddenly realize that when this new woman came into your life?*
_This did not happen over night. I almost left several times over the past 15 years (without the interference of having feelings towards another women)_

*No, you shouldn't stay together if you are miserable but there is a proper order to handle things. That order doesn't involve finding your wife's replacement first*.
_I think I mostly agree with this_


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## jlg07

So as for the other woman, I think you are reaching out for ANYTHING. Her positive attitude is probably what you are reacting to since your wife is SO negative.
There are a TON of differences with this woman -- religion and political beliefs -- yeah, you know, the stuff people shouldn't talk about at parties. Those differences can be HUGE. So, grass being greener, not so much. 

If your wife isn't willing to do the work, have you sat down and had the "something has to change, or I am leaving" discussion? Does SHE realize how serious this is to you? Her not doing the work for the marriage counselor -- your answer should have been "well SOMEONE needs to tell you how to married, because you have NO CLUE how to do this on your own".

Any negative stuff she starts saying to you (unless you think she has a point), just say "Sorry you feel that way" and walk away from the conversation. You don't need to be her lightning rod for these negative comments. Some of this is because you have ALLOWED her to get so negative with you. Have you ever told her to flat-out shut up? That you don't want to hear the negativity about something?

Focus on YOU -- get in shape, eat right, meet people (I know hard to do when older, and REALLY hard to do NOW with social distancing), work on hobbies you always wanted to do.


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## bobert

You need to open your eyes. 

This woman is the complete opposite which seems great when you're comparing her to your wife but in reality... you'd be trading one set of problems for a new set of problems. It's great that she's a positive person, but your difference in religion, politics, social life, etc. WILL cause issues. Quite possibly major issues. 

_



Besides the differences that I mentioned before, yes, I believe she is great - if nothing else, she is pleasant to be around.

Click to expand...

 _How is she so great when she's willing to, at minimum, have an emotional affair? If she can do it to her husband, she can do it to you as well. 

_



Yes, me and the other woman have had that discussion, but we are both confused and unclear as to how to answer that question.

Click to expand...

_This is completely inappropriate. As soon as your feelings started heading in that direction you BOTH should have backed off. 

If you want to divorce your wife, go ahead, but don't be a fool about it.


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## Lostinthought61

Never leave a marriage for some one else, leave it only for your own peace of mind and happiness. When you leave for someone else you really won’t find either.


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## StarFires

Lostinthought61 said:


> Never leave a marriage for some one else, leave it only for your own peace of mind and happiness. When you leave for someone else you really won’t find either.



That deserved repeating


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## StarFires

You're lonely, unhappy, feeling unloved, and in need of attention. So, it doesn't matter one bit that this woman is _"African American, body covered in tattoos, very religious, hardcore Democrat and likes to keep a large circle of friends.....she is kind, sweet, and caring and has a zest for life." _She could be green and none of those other things, and you would still be swelling and contriving the rationale to leave your wife. Attention, when attention is lacking, is a powerful motivator.



ms1jac said:


> don't I deserve to be happy as well?


Supposed by every married person and every person pursuing someone who is married in order to justify their wrongdoing and assuage their guilt. In that context, the answer is no.

These wheels are in motion and there's no going back now. So, there is really no point in all of us telling you to do things the right way because you will never get this woman out of your mind. She has become your catalyst, and the rest (your wife and marriage) will soon be history. And that's too bad because this act of desperation will never work out with her for that reason....it is an act of desperation. You should have done this already before any infatuations developed because, in general, you do deserve to be happy.. But now, you can never convince yourself it was an honest decision because it isn't.


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## Diana7

So you are hoping that we will tell you that its ok to leave yur wife for another woman. And for the OW to leave her husband for you. Your marriage suddenly looks worse because you are comparing it to what MAY happen with the OW, but probably wont. Relationships that begin this way rarely last, because the grass isnt greener and once you have abandoned one spouse you can do that again, and so can she. 
As for the OW, has she children? Married 20 years you say, so her children may well be much younger than yours. If she is as religious as you say, why is she even contemplating being with you? Surely she knows that its wrong to leave one spouse for another person?If she is a Christian that is totally forbidden by God. She is also told that she cant be with someone who doesnt share her faith if she is a Christian, what is she thinking? 

BTW, you are almost certainly wrong about your daughters. You are very naive if you think they will over look your abandonment of their mother for another woman and they will almost certainly not not welcome her with open arms.


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## MattMatt

@ms1jac Is your wife as bad as you say?

If so, divorce would be one option to pursue. 

After divorce, then you can look for other female companionship. And individual counselling might be an option, as 15 years of misery can leave a mark on a person.


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## SunCMars

Lostinthought61 said:


> Never leave a marriage for some one else, leave it only for your own peace of mind and happiness. When you leave for someone else you really won’t find either.


So true, in many of these cases we find that the person is leaving for a dream, with them accentuating all that appears well and good.

I repeat.....pointing at the good, while ignoring or glossing over any of the possible flaws in the new person.

What we see here is not monkey-branching, such that holding on to the old until the newly-gripped person is proven solid.

This is worse, we could equate this to leaping from one tree, into another, hoping that the branch they seek will withstand the load, will hold-fast the flying dream-boat, that is, this OP.


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## Spicy

You are extremely close to physically cheating on your wife.


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## Diana7

Just read your opening post again where you say you have no friends or close family. This is a good time for you to make some friends. Take up a hobby, join groups, a new sport. Volunteer work, anything where you will meet other people. OK not so easy with covid, but its still possible. Do you have a dog? Take it our for long walks. Sounds as if you are just shut in at home together and there are so many opportunities to find things that will enrich your life..


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## SunCMars

Spicy said:


> You are extremely close to physically cheating on your wife.


More so, extremely close to your own selfish thoughts, detached far from self-less reality.


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## SunCMars

You sound desperate.

You are grabbing at life's box of straw people, not caring a lick about color or painted on graffiti.

Not that, that facet, need matter. 
It is 'we' spinning your words, forgive us!

Straw people are those surrounding you, them, being 'us'.
This lady sounds exciting, and may be.

She may be _'just'. _caring and faithful to a degree, mostly, in the whole.
She may be _just _as she seems, in your eyes. With her wanting of 'others' and dreaming.

Not every friendly person will open their hearts for _just _anyone, let alone a lady, her legs.

She may be_, just_ open and nice, _just_ enjoying the conversation with you. 
You are *assuming* that she will leave her family for you. 

A big leap of logic for you,* a bigger leap of faith for her.*

When a person is lonely, their imagination will create friends where there are none.
That is you, it _may_ be her.

We are all someones straw, yes, some suck the life out of us.

_THM-_


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## SunCMars

At your age of 55, I see a hint....

Saturn being _within orb_ of its only possible, that opposing sweep.
You are being split off, cold, from your past.


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## ms1jac

Thank you all for your comments. You've given me exactly what I needed...a swift kick in the head.
I do know for fact that if things don't work out with me and my wife of 34 years, I am not going to leave one women for another or rush into any other relationship when (or even if) we do splt. The "other woman" and I had a mature and respectful conversation about this and we both agreed that we've been acting stupidly simply because we thought the grass might be greener. The most important thing for me is to find my happiness and in some part, my own identity.


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## Diana7

ms1jac said:


> Thank you all for your comments. You've given me exactly what I needed...a swift kick in the head.
> I do know for fact that if things don't work out with me and my wife of 34 years, I am not going to leave one women for another or rush into any other relationship when (or even if) we do splt. The "other woman" and I had a mature and respectful conversation about this and we both agreed that we've been acting stupidly simply because we thought the grass might be greener. The most important thing for me is to find my happiness and in some part, my own identity.


I am glad that you have both seen sense, please dont even go after a married woman and destroy a family.


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## SunCMars

ms1jac said:


> Thank you all for your comments. You've given me exactly what I needed...a swift kick in the head.
> I do know for fact that if things don't work out with me and my wife of 34 years, I am not going to leave one women for another or rush into any other relationship when (or even if) we do splt. The "other woman" and I had a mature and respectful conversation about this and *we both agreed that we've been acting stupidly simply because we thought the grass might be greener.* The most important thing for me is to find my happiness and in some part, my own identity.


This tells me that she *was* a _willing_ partner, on that condition that you were the _willing_ aggressor.

When you got cold feet,* she had no choice* but to dip hers in that bucket of cold reality water that you set in front of her.

_I suspect_ your tattooed friend was looking for a *nice?* friend and some side action.
She was *not* invested, only carnally interested.

Dunno, just 'wrytin'..

_The Typist-_


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## ms1jac

SunCMars said:


> This tells me that she *was* a _willing_ partner, on that condition that you were the _willing_ aggressor.
> 
> When you got cold feet,* she had no choice* but to dip hers in that bucket of cold reality water that you set in front of her.
> 
> _I suspect_ your tattooed friend was looking for a *nice?* friend and some side action.
> She was *not* invested, only carnally interested.
> 
> Dunno, just 'wrytin'..
> 
> _The Typist-_


You sound as though you know her? But you dont. I can take all the comments you want to throw at me but since she isn't here to defend herself i would appreciate if you could just keep your comments directed at me and leave her aside. Actually, i dont think either of us was the aggressor, although she did take the first step. Everything after that was mutual. The bottom line is we were both mature enough to end the silliness before we qent too far


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## Divinely Favored

Does your wife work? Why are you doing most of the house work? Sounds like you were the "Nice guy" who the woman comes to loose respect for. 

My dad bent over backwards for my mom because he put her on a pedestal. Your wife sounds like my mom. She treated him badly and found fault in everything. My sister and i both wished he would have divorced her to find someone who would have been greatful for him. 

He stayed and grew more bitter agains her and when she started changing and being nicer, dad was checked out. He died of heart attack last year at 75. She now has regrets and is living in that big house alone with her dog. 

Her behavior toward my dad also damaged her relationship with her kids. I talk to her maybe every 3 weeks or so on phone or if she calls me. I can be civil but she is more like a friend of the family to me.


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## ms1jac

Divinely Favored said:


> Does your wife work? Why are you doing most of the house work? Sounds like you were the "Nice guy" who the woman comes to loose respect for.
> 
> My dad bent over backwards for my mom because he put her on a pedestal. Your wife sounds like my mom. She treated him badly and found fault in everything. My sister and i both wished he would have divorced her to find someone who would have been greatful for him.
> 
> He stayed and grew more bitter agains her and when she started changing and being nicer, dad was checked out. He died of heart attack last year at 75. She now has regrets and is living in that big house alone with her dog.
> 
> Her behavior toward my dad also damaged her relationship with her kids. I talk to her maybe every 3 weeks or so on phone or if she calls me. I can be civil but she is more like a friend of the family to me.


As i read your comments i felt like it was one of my own daughters writing it. Sounds exactly what things are like. I guess i fell for the trap of happy wife happy life, but it seems the more i gave to support that theory, the more emboldened she got and nkw instead of showing gratitude, all i get is negative comments. But its not just me, shes negative towards everyone and almost everything...its unbearable at times. I'd love to carry our conversation offline if you're willing. My email is [email protected]


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