# Who has weathered a simlar storm please for my family.....



## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

First post here but have been reading a lot. heres the situation. Wife had a long term EA with her Business partner who is a younger man(engaged). Was always leery of texting etc between them but did not really know the extent. " just friends" came up a lot business stuff came up a lot....basically it was BS - Marriage had been on the decline for a few years after birth of 4th son, we have 4 boys 10 yo twins a 6 and a 5 (now). The business startup required travelling for certification classes by the two of them which I protested huge but to no avail and the last trip a condo was shared by them and another student (no I have never seen a photo nor know her name). When I found out about this I totally flipped it was about Nov of last year and though this caused a major wedge between us and was an ongoing issue that was not skirted..The EA became or probably already was a PA. In late December I discovered of sex texting on her phone which had been locked down for two years. Phone records show a progression. 1500- 3200 texts per month for 2014. After discovery I blew up totally, met the guy to scare him off, which at least paused things (no business together). I counseled a lawyer that next week, did not file. She did to which scared the **** out of her and she opened a separate account, got a second cell phone, the whole bs shebang. All this time OM had a fiancé and married her two weeks after the affair was discovered as planned. I did not expose the affair out of compassion for her. (I know) Over the past years time the couple had become close to our family, coming for cookouts drinking etc. I monitored pretty closely their actions together and although the situation was uncomfortable it was cloaked in the start of this business and the differences in age and the fact that the families (including my kids) were involved in these get togethers which were really pretty friendly. The couple even joined us when we took the kids camping and we joined them when they camped with his family (yes, I know, I know but in the thick of it it became if you cant beat them join them). We have obvious barrier issues here and just how physical it was is really unknown but lets face it they went on several business trips together so im not foolish to think the affair went physical only at the end when I caught the sex texing about her blowing him during a study session.... FF to now 7 mos later. I went from aggressive Im divorcing your a** (first two months), to we need to save this for not only the kids but us and I can get past it if we can develop a better relationship etc.(past 4 months) I am willing to do the heavy lifting to get us where we need to go but:

- MC fizzled out because she refuses to go anymore (time felt attacked - doesn't want to go). 

- She will not go to PC which I think she needs either. 

- After I recommitted I did smother her to make her feel better, went out of my way to do nice things. cornered her with relationship talk etc (I know bad). I have backed off made her choose to stay or go and she decided to stay in the marriage but even with the kids seemed hesitant, so I have given her some space.......

- Day after her Bday we have a fight about her other phone and since that I have distanced myself. stopped trying to sleep in the bed with her (our kids wind up in the bed most of the time anyhow- another issue I know). I have no desire to pursue her, am starting to feel better when she leaves, am kind of not liking it when she returns and am about fed up with the whole thing. 



There are big red flags which are deal breakers here I know so we almost don't need to address: 

- the other phone which she says is just used as an ipod now but has a contract so its still a phone and really was put in place to be able to contact OM or whoever without a trace, 2 - still funneling money into a separate account, claiming she spends it on the kids and entertainment, she did say she would keep that until we are in the clear as she would have no resource for D. 

- Took a promotion and Is now the supervisor of the OM. 

- though said she is sorry, shows little remorse and will absolutely not bring up anything abouth our marriage, attempting to show transparency or rebuild trust. I have made it clear it is up to her to fix this. 

- there are others, this is getting long...... basically its a soup of poop that is stagnant and getting hard to exist with -



I want a good reconciliation. I want our marriage to work. I don't want our kids to grow up in two households. I really didn't think it was that bad, (shes gone back and forth on this) we even had a decent though mechanical sex life. I will absolutely and have tried to own my side of the mess - Not being emotinally supportive, focused on money, being a stompy ****, Detached from our relationship during the parenting whirlwind etc.... marriages don't fail because of one side usually, I know this.... I am looking for what I can do to help the situation and I firmly believe she needs to want to do the right things for this to work or this rug sweeping will cause her or even I to stray again and just F it all up........ The dust has settled a lot for me so I am not in the high emotion state and I need a lot from my Wife that I have not gotten..... I am heavily considering exposing the affair to the other side which I did not do for compassion of his wife. Is it still going on? honestly I do not know and unbiasedly could see it either way. I scared the **** out of the guy and he married his fiancée but still works out of the same office. I would say (required) physical contact in the workplace is minimal as they are offsite medical workers and see patients all over, not dumb enough to believe if they wanted it to be underground that it would be..............and I would not know.


This has been a journey and I have done work to put myself in a better place mentally and physically. I have done the reading and research and know more now than I ever thought about relationships and what makes them tick. I have given her more than enough space and compassion for her situation too but Im at the end of my rope and heavily considering divorce though I know we have not tried everything and I do love my wife. I would love to hear from someone in my shoes who has dealt with a spouse who has shown little remorse and continued to a act shelfishly in the wake of discovery and attempted reconciliation........ We have a beautiful family but I know I cannot control her, I want some good advice here. im considering - blowing up his side and filing next week but he fact is we have not had a talk about our marriage in over 8 weeks, just been grinding along.......


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

She will do what she knows she can get away with. It took me a long time to let my H know that I would leave if he didn't start doing something to change my mind. I learned here that you have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it. To be honest it sounds like she's already checked out. So you don't have anything to lose by letting her know what you expect of her & that you won't except any less. If she can't do that, Then my suggestion would be to go through with the D. Don't stay in a marriage that she don't even think enough of to fight for. You deserve better than that. I hope things work out the way you want them to. Sorry you're here..

Oh yeah Expose the A to his wife no matter what. She needs to know!


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

Don't fool yourself they are still in the middle of the affair. You really didn't do anything to stop it. You threatened a divorce then backed off. Your biggest mistake was not exposing the affair to everyone including his now wife.

If you want to save the marriage start the divorce back up and put you foot down on her 2nd phone and demands total transparency on her part. You need total access to her phone and email. Because she is still talking and screwing him....sorry.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The most effective and important first step is to gather your evidence and expose the affair to the OM's poor wife.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I think you should expose, especially if you want to try and stay married.

In the mean time start you own bank accounts


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

I blew up the affair to mine and my W family immediately. I sat down with her father and told him what happened and that I would divorce her. and to her brother as soon after I walkded away from her on the day of D. Her brother is getting married this weekend and I am going to wait until after to act so that our S*** is not in the air for their day. I am really close to her family. They have been supportive to both of us which is nice. Should I blow up his whole family, ie his mom/dad/wife/brothers/sisters. Ive discovered shes the "me" in their relationship and hes the selfish douche....... Im thinking nuclear annialation on his side. He told me there would be no more contact but he continued to work with her.....so Im saying all's fair at this point.....


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Also -- My mother made me promise not to sell the OM's W..... She made me swear to it.... after reading a lot of these threads it seems to be a common necessity.....


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

foolishheart said:


> Also -- My mother made me promise not to sell the OM's W..... She made me swear to it.... after reading a lot of these threads it seems to be a common necessity.....


My family told me I shouldn't cause more trouble by telling OW's H. I didn't tell him for months & then I was so afraid of what would happen that I just made an anonymous call. It was the biggest mistake I ever made. The people here have been through it. Listen to them. I wish I had.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

your wife has been playing you like a bad harp, and you have been taking it....enough is enough


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

FH,

Newly betrayed spouses often make a lot of mistakes in the aftermath of their spouse's A. That's understandable given their emotional state.

But I hate to tell you; you've made more than most.

In no particular order:

- You used the term "Long-Term EA". That's almost an oxymoron. Long term EA's are rare. The PA didn't just happen at the end. It's been going on the whole time. You need to come to grips with that.

- You accepted them continuing to work together. You should not have. Period. As long as they work together, the A will continue.

- You didn't expose the POSOM to his fiance. You should have. Now, she's going to be royally pissed at you for not telling her before she married him. But you have to tell her anyway.

- You continued to socialize with the OM after this happened? That one is just beyond my comprehension.

- You have not held your wife accountable and are rugsweeping her A. Because of that she has no fear of you leaving her; and thus no motivation to show remorse and no motivation to stop cheating.

- You have accepted her lack of remorse.

- You have accepted her lack of transparency.

You need to correct all those mistakes if you want the best chance to save your marriage.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Sorry, there was no socialization after exposure with them at all. Should I include his family in the exposure on his side.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

You may as well face it Dawg, you're pissing your life away trying to salvage your marriage.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

foolishheart said:


> Sorry, there was no socialization after exposure with them at all. Should I include his family in the exposure on his side.


Yes you should.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Here's the bottom line FH. Your fear of losing your wife has driven you to make really bad decisions. You have to be willing to give her consequences. She has to be willing to accept them. All of them. You have to be willing to divorce her if she doesn't. That's the blueprint.

Either she quits her job or the OM does. After that happens, she sends him a no contact letter that you approve of.

You expose her and OM fully - she accepts it.

She becomes fully transparent with all her communication devices, no more separate accounts.

She accounts for her time away from you.

She consistently demonstrates she is remorseful by not only her words, but her actions. That includes sex, affection, and a willingness to do the heavy lifting.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Here's the deal man.

She's unrepentant and not stopping... so there's no shot at R.

You're done. In fact, you were done a long time ago, she just didn't give you the memo.

File, leverage going public for an amicable divorce, then go public anyway to protect you and your kids.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

marduk said:


> Here's the deal man.
> 
> She's unrepentant and not stopping... so there's no shot at R.
> 
> ...



Agreed.

Also, please tell the OM W. Blow his world up a bit.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Why would you want to continue with her? She has made no commitments to you that she won't consider doing it again, gives you no transparency or access to her phone and you are basically making it easy for her by trying to R so much. If you want action from her you will have to make her comply to a set of boundaries you both can live with, also strongly consider making her moving to another company and cut off contact from the OM and his wife. You should also tell her about the affair, she has a right to know what she married. You should have told her before the wedding.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

pistal said:


> Why do you think that not exposing the affair to the OMs then fiancee would be compassionate.
> 
> You could have saved her from a life of misery if she had this information prior to the marriage.
> 
> ...



I agree. I don't think it's compassionate all, it denied her the opportunity to go into her marriage with her eyes open. She needs to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

The first thing she needs to do is to quit her job so she is away from the OM come home and be a wife to you and a Mom to your children. If she won't do that then she is selfish and is putting her job first. I feel for these children, both parents are gone all day at work and then when you two are at home with your children you aren't talking to each other much or showing affection to each other.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Messages left for OM's wife


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

foolishheart said:


> Messages left for OM's wife


Good start. One consequence down, several more to go.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

Good job on the exposure. Listen to the people here. I wish this site existed when I went through this. Would have saved me a ton of heart ache. 

You have to be willing to loose the marriage in order to save it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

foolishheart said:


> I went from aggressive Im divorcing your a** (first two months), to we need to save this for not only the kids but us and I can get past it if we can develop a better relationship etc.(past 4 months)
> 
> *I am willing to do the heavy lifting* to get us where we need to go but:
> 
> ...


:banghead:

Wow. You've done just about EVERY wrong thing you could possibly do in this situation.

You want advice?

File for divorce and full custody. 

You are striving for Doormat of the Year and she has NO RESPECT for you any more.

YOU do the heavy lifting? No, SHE does the heavy lifting. Or else you LEAVE her.

That is the ONLY way she will ever wake up. SHE should be doing MC or you divorce her. SHE should be doing IC or you divorce her. SHE should be kissing your ass or you divorce her.

But you won't. She KNOWS you're too scared to lose her, SO SHE HAS 100% CONTROL.

I'm surprised she hasn't just started bringing men home.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Affair is exposed om is home consoling his w. My w is mad. I FB om's dad and brother. Don't have any phone #'s


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Bless her little.........err tiny heart.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I take it you want to stay married. Then spend the money to hire a PI to GET the numbers. Good that your wife is mad. She should be feeling VERY CORNERED right now, wondering how to get herself out of this mess she created.

Now make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that you will accept NOTHING but 100% remorse, therapy, NO locked phones or electronics, and there WILL be a GPS on her phone from now on, and she will write a No Contact letter to OM immediately that you will approve and send, and she WILL quit her job.

And if she doesn't want your terms, you will be having your lawyer set up the papers to boot her out of your life and your kids' lives.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Start the 180. 


1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

foolishheart said:


> Affair is exposed om is home consoling his w. My w is mad. I FB om's dad and brother. Don't have any phone #'s


Excellent! No reason for you to suffer this out alone. Let the others join the party. Take back your control and sanity. 

Sorry you are here.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

You want to save your M...but you have done almost EVERYTHING wrong if that is your goal.

You should have exposed to OM's fiance (now BW) immediately....don't understand why in the world you would have listened to this advice from your mom, who has probably never been through this, on this issue.

Expect POSOM's BW to be VERY P*SSED that you knew BEFORE she got married to this scumbag and never informed her so she could have avoided getting committed to him in the first place.

You tried to 'nice' her back....the stupid and futile 'pick me' dance....it NEVER works.

All this accomplished was a further loss of respect for you from your WW.....here she is screwing around on you and you start kissing her a** and smothering her.

You need to go back to the aggressive pushing of the D process and exposure of the A....to OMW and any other friends/family that do not know.

Notice that the ONE TIME your WW got scared was when you were on the warpath.....but YOU got scared because she talked to a lawyer too to prep for the D she was sure you were going to hit her with.

Your fear led you to fold up and turn into a bag of begging mush....and at that point she knew she didn't have to do anything to repair the M...YOU weren't going anywhere and she knew it....are you surpised her attitude and effort about the M turned to sh*t in this situation?

If you want to save your M, you had better get back to fighting hard for it and showing her in no uncertain terms that she is about to lose her life and family as she knows them if she doesn't get her head out of her a** and start acting like a wife and mother.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

oops....sorry....just saw that you exposed to OMW.

Good start....now ignore your WW's anger and file for D.

It will show her that you are not tolerating her crap anymore and she better start taking steps to repair the M or she is going to lose her life and family.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Your going to expose her to her work to right? I mean if she is over him now then they need to know what they are being put into as well. 


?

Clay


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> Messages left for OM's wife


I commend you for doing the right thing for OM's wife, for you, and for your marriage. As you know, your wife will be very angry at you and tell you how selfish you are. You might even begin to 2nd guess your decision to tell OM's wife. However, your wife will calm down after some time and for the first time in all this, she will have a bit of respect for you. You didn't do anything to cause all this grief, and now you have shown that you're a man who no longer puts up with all the [email protected]


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just remember: if the cheater is mad that you exposed, that means you did the right thing.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Sorry brother that this happened in your marriage. 

No R can begin is the A is still active. You have to use whatever tactics the others on the forum have suggested until you are sure (and verified) that the A is over. Only them can you make an informed decision as whether you want to even consider a R or not.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Friend it comes down to this. Stop worrying about her feelings. Why? Take a good look at the situation and ask yourself if she's taking yours in consideration. You know the answer to that. She proved it with her actions and her lack of remorse. 

It takes two to make a marriage work and so far your the only one trying. If it's me, I let her know that she's on life support with you and your on the verge of pulling the plug on her if she doesn't start making improvements but to be honest with you, I would be seriously thinking of unloading her on the nearest curb and moving on because she isn't likely to change her ways.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I stopped part way down your OP.

It won't work. You are being a doormat, she is unremorseful.

You got nothing here but a proud tramp and 4 of her victims in addition to yourself.

The POSs fiance needed to know.

You need to file and expose. You still need to tell the OMW.

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy. Man up like 2000%.

Learn to respect yourself. No one else is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
I see you told OMW. Good. Start the process of dumping the garbage that is currently parading as your wife.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

OP- your wife is mad because you have put the relationship she values most in jeopardy- her and her POSOM.

You don't need to wait for any family event on her side to be done with before filing. File now. You don't owe her squat. You can file and attend the wedding.

Get tested for STDs.
Do the 180 and do it now.


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## no-more-lies (Jul 11, 2015)

Leave her! There's no way the kids don't know there's something going on. They will be upset about it for a while, but seeing the two of you happy will be better for them. Find yourself a decent woman who can keep her legs closed when she's out of the house.

As for the OM's wife? TELL HER!!! If it was me, I'd want to know. If he's done it once and gotten away with it, he will do it again. Same goes for your wife.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

FH, I understand marrying a person, and all the good that goes with it. 
My problem is wanting to stay with someone who has changed so much that you don't even know them anymore.
As we say here all the time, this is not the person you married. Get that through your head first. This is who she has turned into, and will forever be. 
As for the marriage, she killed that with the affair. Basically you will have to build a new one. So why gamble on a known remorseless cheating sk#nk.

Look around you, there are millions of two family homes successfully raising kids.
Hell, I bet your kids got friends at school like that now.

I'm sorry you are here, but hopefully these ladies and gent will get you clear of this pile.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> My w is mad.


OMG, she's mad. She's going to freak out. She gonna unleash her power on all of us. Sheeeot.
How many "request" do you have to make of her where she tell you to ***-off before you put a stop to this crap. What are we suppose to believe about you and what kind of message are you sending when your family camping trips includes the guy that's been fu-ing you wife. The woman can't have any respect for you my man.
Unless you want to keep being puzzy whipped by this woman, you've got to draw a hard line. (call it tough love) Tell her if she doesn't like it, take some of that money she's sticking aside and use it to get her another place. In the meantime, tell her if she's planning on staying with you, get her resume updated and put in her two weeks notice. And its fine with you if her boyfriend can make her a better offer.
I'd ditched her azz long ago and been settled in with another by now.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

foolishheart said:


> Affair is exposed om is home consoling his w. My w is mad. I FB om's dad and brother. Don't have any phone #'s


She's mad because:

- she still cares about him, and you just hurt him.
- she's ashamed because she's busted.

Your guilt level at this point should be zero.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

turnera said:


> I take it you want to stay married. Then spend the money to hire a PI to GET the numbers. Good that your wife is mad. She should be feeling VERY CORNERED right now, wondering how to get herself out of this mess she created.
> 
> Now make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that you will accept NOTHING but 100% remorse, therapy, NO locked phones or electronics, and there WILL be a GPS on her phone from now on, and she will write a No Contact letter to OM immediately that you will approve and send, and she WILL quit her job.
> 
> And if she doesn't want your terms, you will be having your lawyer set up the papers to boot her out of your life and your kids' lives.



I would go dark as the blackest night and let her come up with her own plan to make things right with you.

If she offers up the above freely... maybe you can make a go of it.

If you force her to do it... she'll do it and resent you for it forever.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm with you fellers....


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

She's mad 

From me to her


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

OK I have been there and done that. It has been a rough 3 years for me but I came through it and It's not for everyone. You have to follow the advice here and not waiver. R is a very rough and ugly road and both people have to be completely committed to R. Read Bandit's last post and follow it. When you go see your doctor for an STD test it will be a real low point for you. You will live through it but it will she how far down your WW has taken you.

Expose to her family and if the kids are old enough tell them what is going on


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

I appreciate the tough love, I think some of it is a bit over the top. I feel good that the OM's wife and family know. I do feel for the wife because I know the pain she feels today, I know this has saved her in some way. 

We all know that for my kids a big fat textbook R would be best; however, she would need to come pretty far out of this and start turning new leaves like it was fall to get my attention which sucks because I do not have that faith in her anymore. I'm pretty far gone. It feels selfish because of my children and because I view this as a sickness with her and believe I should wait out the storm.. part of this is midlife **** most of it is shes a shellfish **** and wants everything.... My lawyer is booked two weeks out and I have an appt. I don't know if that is a good thing or if I should push to file quicker. I have always felt that once I file I better be absolutely sure. two weeks from now should be enough time,,,,, enough time has passed already. I think Im sure now.....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I'd like to challenge that assumption, man. About it being best for the kids.

Is it, really? To see their father in constant pain and years of insecurity because of your wife? 

To see her slowly seethe away at resentment because you're always looking over her shoulder?

I'm not saying people can't reconcile and have it be good. I'm saying she's not actually reconciling, and you playing the martyr isn't going to do your kids any good.

Let them see their dad stand up for what's right, and himself, and _them_, too. She betrayed them as well. Don't forget that.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> I appreciate the tough love, I think some of it is a bit over the top. .


If you read some threads, you'll see how much "over the top" works vs "conventional" on many different marriage forums.


> We all know that for my kids a big fat textbook R would be best; .


Highly debatable.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

What would be best for your children would be to have a mom who cared more for them than her crotch monster.

You are not married to such a thoughtful woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Sorry you are here. 
Most of us have been through this. We are not posting to destroy you just to try to ease what is to come. 
You are getting what many of us wished we had when we found out. A how to deal with this sh*t primer. 
Use it well and good luck.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

foolishheart said:


> First post here but have been reading a lot. heres the situation. Wife had a long term EA with her Business partner who is a younger man(engaged). Was always leery of texting etc between them but did not really know the extent. " just friends" came up a lot business stuff came up a lot....basically it was BS - Marriage had been on the decline for a few years after birth of 4th son, we have 4 boys 10 yo twins a 6 and a 5 (now). The business startup required travelling for certification classes by the two of them which I protested huge but to no avail and the last trip a condo was shared by them and another student (no I have never seen a photo nor know her name). When I found out about this I totally flipped it was about Nov of last year and though this caused a major wedge between us and was an ongoing issue that was not skirted..The EA became or probably already was a PA. In late December I discovered of sex texting on her phone which had been locked down for two years. Phone records show a progression. 1500- 3200 texts per month for 2014. After discovery I blew up totally, met the guy to scare him off, which at least paused things (no business together). I counseled a lawyer that next week, did not file. She did to which scared the **** out of her and she opened a separate account, got a second cell phone, the whole bs shebang. All this time OM had a fiancé and married her two weeks after the affair was discovered as planned. I did not expose the affair out of compassion for her. (I know) Over the past years time the couple had become close to our family, coming for cookouts drinking etc. I monitored pretty closely their actions together and although the situation was uncomfortable it was cloaked in the start of this business and the differences in age and the fact that the families (including my kids) were involved in these get togethers which were really pretty friendly. The couple even joined us when we took the kids camping and we joined them when they camped with his family (yes, I know, I know but in the thick of it it became if you cant beat them join them). We have obvious barrier issues here and just how physical it was is really unknown but lets face it they went on several business trips together so im not foolish to think the affair went physical only at the end when I caught the sex texing about her blowing him during a study session.... FF to now 7 mos later. I went from aggressive Im divorcing your a** (first two months), to we need to save this for not only the kids but us and I can get past it if we can develop a better relationship etc.(past 4 months) I am willing to do the heavy lifting to get us where we need to go but:
> 
> - MC fizzled out because she refuses to go anymore (time felt attacked - doesn't want to go).
> 
> ...


You have GOT to be kidding me.

Expose the affair and file for divorce.

SMFH...

ETA: Should've read through the entire thread before posting.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Woman here and married for 35 years. Your wife is far gone. This is demonstrated in her actions. I suggest that you see a psychologist to get your mind straight and get your self-esteem in the right place. 

Get a divorce. Your wife is totally unrepentant and has no remorse on any of her actions. This is a totally selfish individual. She does not care for you or your children. You deserve a better life!


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> I do feel for the wife because I know the pain she feels today,
> We all know that for my kids a big fat textbook R would be best; however, she would need to come pretty far out of this and start turning new leaves like it was fall to get my attention which sucks because I do not have that faith in her anymore.


A big fat textbook loyal and faithful wife would be best for the kids buts its a little late for that. There are two type women you ain't gonna be able to deal with my man. The kind that knows you won't leave and the kind that don't care if you do. I'm not sure from the limited information provided which one she is, but I suspect she's a little of both with more weight given to "don't care if you do".. So you're screwed; and not in a good way. Not having faith in her is a smart thing.
At any rate, why do you think she's feeling pain? Anything to do with you telling the boyfriend's wife or do you think it's because she now realizes she hurt you in the process?


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> A big fat textbook loyal and faithful wife would be best for the kids buts its a little late for that. There are two type women you ain't gonna be able to deal with my man. The kind that knows you won't leave and the kind that don't care if you do. I'm not sure from the limited information provided which one she is, but I suspect she's a little of both with more weight given to "don't care if you do".. So you're screwed; and not in a good way. Not having faith in her is a smart thing.
> At any rate, why do you think she's feeling pain? Anything to do with you telling the boyfriend's wife or do you think it's because she now realizes she hurt you in the process?



Not my wife the I'm wife. She's a sweet girl. I know she needed to.know. these forums let me know it was the right thing and I don't care if the rest of the world thinks I'm a douche for it.. I hope she has a better life because of this pain. I should have told her before.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Roselyn said:


> Woman here and married for 35 years. Your wife is far gone. This is demonstrated in her actions. I suggest that you see a psychologist to get your mind straight and get your self-esteem in the right place.
> 
> Get a divorce. Your wife is totally unrepentant and has no remorse on any of her actions. This is a totally selfish individual. She does not care for you or your children. You deserve a better life!


That's some tough love. I don't mind it at all.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

foolishheart said:


> Not my wife the I'm wife. She's a sweet girl. I know she needed to.know. these forums let me know it was the right thing and I don't care if the rest of the world thinks I'm a douche for it.. I hope she has a better life because of this pain. I should have told her before.


You did the right thing. You should've done it much, much sooner (before she actually married the piece of sh*t would've been ideal), but at least you finally did it.

Thankfully, there are no kids involved at this point (on her end, anyway), plus she's young enough that she should be able to rebuild her life (whether she chooses to divorce or reconcile) w/ her prime years still ahead of her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

foolishheart said:


> I'm pretty far gone. It feels selfish because of my children and because I view this as a sickness with her and believe I should wait out the storm.


But you're ignoring the psychological aspect of what she's going through. if you 'kiss up,' she will lose what little respect for you she has left. Psychologically, to EARN YOU, she has to fear LOSING YOU. This is not unique to you and her, it's basic psychology with cheating women. And we're giving you this advice based on watching hundreds, if not thousands, of other men in your exact same situation. There IS a SCRIPT when it comes to cheating. Again, because it's basic psychology; once you go down the cheating path, your brain does certain things. It happens over and over and over. Which is why we tell you with such certainty what needs to happen.



foolishheart said:


> I have always felt that once I file I better be absolutely sure.


Why? You can always call your lawyer and say 'Guess what? We decided to reconcile! Things are much better now! Put that decree in the filing cabinet; I'll let you know if I ever need it again.

And the added benefit of filing is that it PROVES to your wife that you are serious, that you WON'T share her with another man. Which is exactly what she needs to hear, in order to want the marriage.

And btw, just like there's a script for waywards, there's a script for betrayed spouses. And it usually starts with utter fear at being replaced, and then further fear at ANGERING the wayward and 'pushing them away' by daring to be mad at them for cheating. 

Most BHs go through that. But the only ones I've ever seen recover their marriages are the ones who show strength and unwillingness to share their spouse. It's basic psychology.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

I do not mind the reality of my situation. And I'm not being foolish by asking but has anyone reconciled successfully with someone who was like my wife. Again. I'll own my part in the demise. Openly. I can be a yelling, uber focused, feeling stomping prick, who had become light on compliments. And none of you have to try to balance a checkbook with me. But my wife has some very specific traits that have aided in what I now understand is this snowball of crap. She is an avoider and she is very passive aggressive. We are both smart people. Admittedly she is very smart and highly manipulative.... I have disarmed her so far and not succumbed to the PA traps but to give credit where due. She is sharp.....Has anyone successfully reconciled with such a person?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

foolishheart said:


> That's some tough love. I don't mind it at all.


Please get the book "No More Mr Nice Guy"
You will know what the very learned here have told you.

You CAN'T NICE HER BACK.
You are the man.
Good luck man.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

foolishheart said:


> I do not mind the reality of my situation. And *I'm not being foolish by asking but has anyone reconciled successfully with someone who was like my wife.* Again. I'll own my part in the demise. Openly. I can be a yelling, uber focused, feeling stomping prick, who had become light on compliments. And none of you have to try to balance a checkbook with me. But my wife has some very specific traits that have aided in what I now understand is this snowball of crap. She is an avoider and she is very passive aggressive. We are both smart people. Admittedly she is very smart and highly manipulative.... I have disarmed her so far and not succumbed to the PA traps but to give credit where due. She is sharp.....*Has anyone successfully reconciled with such a person?*


The bottom line is that you can't reconcile your marriage _*alone*_.

And, while there are probably plenty of people that have chosen to continue in their marriages w/ spouses who are anywhere from somewhat similar to exactly like your wife, that's not to say that any of them were actually able to _reconcile_ their marriages.

Most -- if not all -- of them likely just rugswept everything, and that doesn't quite qualify as reconciliation.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> The bottom line is that you can't reconcile your marriage _*alone*_.
> 
> And, while there are probably plenty of people that have chosen to continue in their marriages w/ spouses who are anywhere from somewhat similar to exactly like your wife, that's not to say that any of them were actually able to _reconcile_ their marriages.
> 
> Most -- if not all -- of them likely just rugswept everything, and that doesn't quite qualify as reconciliation.


I watched again the movie "unfaithful" 2002 ugh.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> She is sharp.....Has anyone successfully reconciled with such a person?


Dawg youre smart but realize this rule is golden and don't think you're the exception to it because ya'll are "different". You are not. The rule is that the spouse who cheated is the one to seek and clear the path to reconciliation. Follow this rule lest you'll most certainly end up like some with their threads titled, "no sex after R", "spouse up to same tricks 6mo out", "I'm throwing in the towel", and the like.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

tom67 said:


> I watched again the movie "unfaithful" 2002 ugh.


Hey, it wasn't _all_ bad... watching Frenchy McFrench get "Gered" was pretty satisfying.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

If she is literally begging with snot coming out of her nose crying, THEN... THEN you might have a chance..

Again MIGHT...

But I will tell you, that you talk a good game.. But the simple reality is you cannot do it right now.. I'm sorry and it sucks.. But you do not have the strength or fortitude right now to do this.. 

Sadly you have NOT taken a big enough beating from her yet to let her go in an attempt to fix this.. But again by that time she will have lost so much respect for you, she will never come back.. 

Mind you I am talking from personal experience.. I was in your shoes and didn't have the balls it took to stand up to my Ex to really fix my marriage.. Instead I drove her away with my weakness.. Sadly, its so crazy and counter intuitive to what you instinctively want to do that you cannot understand why or how it would work.. 

But again it does.. The more you show your partner you don't need or care for them.. The more they will want to stay.. But you really have to play that game and that game is HARD.. Because if she calls you on it and goes out and fvcks this guy on a tuesday night while you are home watching the kids..

It will drive you FVCKING NUTS... 

Again been there, done that.. 

I only grew a pair when it came to protecting myself in the divorce.. Granted I won in a big way and she ended up paying me child support.. But nonetheless I wish I had the balls when I was suppose to to fix my marriage.. 

Good luck, Keep posting and please take your time reading what you post as it's a bit choppy.. You are saying the words in your head but not putting them down on paper..


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

" I have always felt that once I file I better be absolutely sure."

Actually....I think its best if every BS files for D IMMEDIATELY after discovery.

They do not happen instantaneously....a BS can always halt the proceedings if the WS gets their head out of their own a**.

But it does send a clearcut, instant message to the WS that they are on the verge of losing their M and family as they know them.

It is the WS that better be absolutely sure they want the D...because that is the freight train that will be rolling down the tracks towards their lives the moment they are served.

It forces the WS to either commit to saving their M or watch it go away forever.....why should the BS have to deal with the uncertainty of whether their WS is really wanting to R on top of all the other crap the traitor has dumped onto their lives?

Force THEM to make the decision.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> I do not mind the reality of my situation. And I'm not being foolish by asking but has anyone reconciled successfully with someone who was like my wife. Again. I'll own my part in the demise. Openly. I can be a yelling, uber focused, feeling stomping prick, who had become light on compliments.


You own your part in a bad marriage, not an affair. I never cheated and I'd say we both contributed to problems in our marriage. Difference is, I communicated the issues to my wife not some random vagina that gave me attention.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Are you saying she is saying she wants to reconcile? Because if your the one trying to figure out how to get her to reconcile, forget it.

On the other hand if she's asking for another chance there are definite steps that have to be taken.

Is she still p!ssed or is she asking forgiveness. Is she trying to get you into her bed?


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Are you saying she is saying she wants to reconcile? Because if your the one trying to figure out how to get her to reconcile, forget it.
> 
> On the other hand if she's asking for another chance there are definite steps that have to be taken.
> 
> ...


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

No sexual advances by who?


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> No sexual advances by who?



Sorry None from her. I stopped any pursuits of that over a month ago as well.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> The rule is that the spouse who cheated is the one to seek and clear the path to reconciliation. Follow this rule lest you'll most certainly end up like some with their threads titled, "no sex after R", "spouse up to same tricks 6mo out", "I'm throwing in the towel", and the like.


This is what Im talking about, I cannot live my life that way and I know it, I will not go about it that way and this is the way it is headed.... I am hearing all of you and what you are saying. Im probably close to "throwing in the towel" here. 

There has been a lack of movement by her on all fronts. Definitely a "rug sweeper". I have been in a stagnant spot here. 

I didn't expect to reveal to the OM's W just yet but the timing was right and im heavily leaning toward filing for D next week, and not as some half assed threat. 

I feel like either way D or a good R is a win right now. but this "half life, just ignored it till it went away, open to it happening again crap" that you accurately describe will not do for me *This I pledge to all of you*. 

Sure there is a lot on the line with my boys but I had a strong father and I wont have my boys grow up seeing half a marriage so they can then go have half a marriage........ No, No F***ing way.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Did you even tell her what she'd need to do to GET to keep you? Transparency, No Contact letter, IC/MC?


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

turnera said:


> Did you even tell her what she'd need to do to GET to keep you? Transparency, No Contact letter, IC/MC?



This has all been communicated but not in an official setting. She is no dummy and knows what this would take. I am trying to determine a good progression of steps. Ive told the OM wife, which is a good start in turning around my past failures in this. I think I should have one sit down discussion with my W to present these boundaries in a formal letter that she would need to agree to, or not and that's it.

100% commitment to marriage
IC/ MC
100% transparency and nothing ever hidden again
No contact and No contact letter - considering including that all 4 of us sit down together in this as well.

Im ready to file on this marriage as bad as I want to see it saved. I pretty much know shed never go for these things but I think I should present them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

All 4 sit down? Hell no! She should NEVER ever have ANY contact with him again whatsoever except for writing a NC letter that YOU approve and YOU send.

And she needs to see you with your finger on the divorce button. THEN, AFTER she's seen you file, THEN you can sit down with her and ask her what she wants to say to you.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> considering including that all 4 of us sit down together in this as well.


No. If she is sill entrenched, all it will do is rekindle old feelings.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Wow. I thought we lived in adult land.

Contact the wife's employer? And they are supposed to do what, exactly? My employer would say "so what"....

Demanding the wife quit her job? OMG. Affairs might be immoral but they aren't illegal, plus that fact that bills still need paid. 

Next....a letter to the OM that the H approves and sends??? Like a note from mommy that you can't take gym today?

Spouses are not property that you own and they jump when you say too, no matter what they've done. Some of the suggestions here are pretty crazy. 

Contacting the OM's extended family? For real? 

If there are issues in a marriage, they need to be worked out in an adult manner, not like the CIA during the cold war. And if there is an affair, there are issues, and I doubt they are one sided. 

OP...vinegar catches zero flies. Do not put your hopes into some of the tactics presented here at TAM. Take a good hard look inward, decide if your marriage is worth saving, and go from there....the James Bond s*it may feel good momentarily, but remember that wives have long memories....if you do R she will still remember your actions years from now.

Was she worth the fight, or did you just want to win a battle by the scorched earth method?


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Lonelyinlove - Ill only fight for what is worth winning. Right now that would only consist of an intact family with a good marriage. I learned long ago that nobody really winds up in control. She has to want to Reconcile with me and for the right reasons, I cannot be manipulative with her, she is far too smart. 

I have been a bit of a doormat here and have tried to comfort her, give her her space and see where things lie. The dust has settled and she'll take no action. I simply have to. 

I exposed the affair to OM's wife, mom, dad and brother. They seem like a good family and I believe it will end the affair if it was still going on. If not then at least it is exposed to enough people that the OM cannot simply "talk" it away with just his Wife. That needed to happen, she would have been manipulated by him or made to believe I was nuts etc. (This has already happened once and I did not follow through toexpose it before which was a mistake.)

My W would never allow herself to be treated like a child although the behavior on her part in this affair was very child like. I have been in a parental role with her for far too long leading up to this. I stopped this immediately after D. The only true fix that I see is a partnership based on solid ground and trust which can only be gotten with her full commitment. Ive been nice, ive been mean, ive been generous and Ive been short. Nothing "works". I realize that the whole thing may just be over and Im chasing a ghost, but for my family I have to be sure, that's all. 

Our marriage is not healthy, I had a role in that, as much as her, I can forgive if shell work to make me trust. "Tactics" will not in themselves work. Ill never "make" or "let" her do anything or not, though I do believe she is attempting mind games etc as this is her MO, (Passive aggressives do or do not do things to make others act out their anger) which I am now very, very on to.

It has to be for real, and I do not have faith it will happen, for real. That sucks and Ill accept it if that is the way..... 

I appreciate your candor LIL, I think this community is here to help and all situations are different but the discussion and advice here has been constructive, all of it. It is the only place I have found outside of an official meeting of the betrayed to get any insight from people who have been through such a mess.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Could I hear from any spouses who had an affair? even an emotional one


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

LIL, I'm with you in that if you've got to herd her into the reconciliation pen and eliminate the competition , what's the use. Who the hell would want to be with someone that doesn't want to be there.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LonelyinLove said:


> Wow. I thought we lived in adult land.
> 
> Contact the wife's employer? And they are supposed to do what, exactly? My employer would say "so what"...


This is an exposure tactic aimed at ending an _ongoing_ workplace affair. It's suggested as often as it is precisely because it often works.

Most employers wouldn't be happy to hear that a couple of their employees had engaged in sexual activity on company time, used company resources to sustain and further their relationship, etc.

Oh... _especially_ if one of them happened to be the other's supervisor, manager, director, etc.



LonelyinLove said:


> Demanding the wife quit her job? OMG. Affairs might be immoral but they aren't illegal, plus that fact that bills still need paid.


This is a perfectly reasonable demand for a BS to make when dealing w/ a WS that has a) engaged in a workplace affair and b) requested and/or committed to the reconciliation of his/her marriage.



LonelyinLove said:


> Next....a letter to the OM that the H approves and sends??? Like a note from mommy that you can't take gym today?


Yes. It's called a "no contact" letter, and it's yet another of the perfectly reasonable requests that any BS should feel entitled to make of his or her WS for reconciliation to be on the table.

DUH.



LonelyinLove said:


> Spouses are not property that you own and they jump when you say too, no matter what they've done. Some of the suggestions here are pretty crazy.


I indeed do "own" my wife, just as she "owns" me... but only so long as she _willingly_ gives herself to me and vice versa. What this essentially means is that each of us is accountable not only to ourselves but to the other as well.

And, while either (or both) of us is free to rescind his or her part of this arrangment at any time, doing so would more or less mean the end of our marriage.



LonelyinLove said:


> Contacting the OM's extended family? For real?


I'd go this far only if any prior exposure of the affair failed to end it. Still, if I had to go this far to end an affair, I'd just pull the plug and file.



LonelyinLove said:


> If there are issues in a marriage, they need to be worked out in an adult manner, not like the CIA during the cold war. And if there is an affair, there are issues, and I doubt they are one sided.
> 
> OP...vinegar catches zero flies. Do not put your hopes into some of the tactics presented here at TAM. Take a good hard look inward, decide if your marriage is worth saving, and go from there....the James Bond s*it may feel good momentarily, but remember that wives have long memories....if you do R she will still remember your actions years from now.
> 
> Was she worth the fight, or did you just want to win a battle by the scorched earth method?


This is _hopelessly_ naive. Or maybe it's indicative of the stereotypically stubborn attitude that seems to be displayed by so many waywards... not sure which.

Aaaaanyway...

Any spouse, having broken his or her marital vows -- and, along w/ it, the trust of his or her spouse -- by engaging in an affair, should fully expect to spend weeks, months, and (quite possibly) years rebuilding the trust necessary to sustain a marriage, and _*VOLUNTARY* transparency_ will be key to this.

The point of monitoring isn't to control; it's to corroborate.

Period.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The Wayward spouse Instructions have helped many couples reconcile or realize that R is not a possibility. Print this off and go over it with your wife. Observe her carefully to see if she appears to be serious.

_*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly! 
*_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

LonelyinLove said:


> Wow. I thought we lived in adult land.
> 
> Contact the wife's employer? And they are supposed to do what, exactly? My employer would say "so what"....
> 
> ...


I can tell you that after viewing over a thousand threads concerning infidelity there is a cheaters script and a betrayed spouse script. Obviously there are small variations. What has to be done to reconcile has little to do with what went on before the infidelity occurred. Yes, past problems have to be dealt with. The problem with infidelity is that the adulterer has to lie to themselves in order to justify their cheating. Destroying the affair just might bring them back to reality. In the case of women, they often fall prey to a players game. There are websites totally dedicated to the techniques that work on single women and married women. Its common place here to see how they have worked.

As far as doing the detective work to uncover and affair or verify that one hasn't gone underground, well, that's just common sense. Its unbelievable how many spouses here have gone through a false reconciliation. For those that think they can tell if the affair continues or goes underground without verifying that fact, the fact is 80% of affairs are never discovered. If your spouse has cheated the odds are only 1 out of 5 that you would have caught him.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

LonelyinLove said:


> Wow. I thought we lived in adult land.


LIL, normally I agree with you, but people are honestly trying to help here, and insulting them isn't helping.

And, the people involved in the affair aren't acting like adults. It's kinda what cheating people do.


> Contact the wife's employer? And they are supposed to do what, exactly? My employer would say "so what"....


this affair was in the workplace, at work events, and maybe even in the physical environment as well.

I bet they'd like to know that, even if they don't get fired over it. Unprofessional behaviour is what it is.


> Demanding the wife quit her job? OMG. Affairs might be immoral but they aren't illegal, plus that fact that bills still need paid.


Absolutely. One of the axioms of affair busting is zero contact with the affair partner. This means one of them has to not work there any more.


> Next....a letter to the OM that the H approves and sends??? Like a note from mommy that you can't take gym today?


It sounds to me like he made this a requirement, trusted her to do it, and she didn't.

So, the next logical step is to do exactly that.


> Spouses are not property that you own and they jump when you say too, no matter what they've done. Some of the suggestions here are pretty crazy.
> 
> Contacting the OM's extended family? For real?


Yes, for real.

Blowing it wide open can be an effective way of putting the limelight on both parties, and we all know keeping the light on in the kitchen helps keep the ****roaches under the fridge.


> If there are issues in a marriage, they need to be worked out in an adult manner, not like the CIA during the cold war. And if there is an affair, there are issues, and I doubt they are one sided.
> 
> OP...vinegar catches zero flies. Do not put your hopes into some of the tactics presented here at TAM. Take a good hard look inward, decide if your marriage is worth saving, and go from there....the James Bond s*it may feel good momentarily, but remember that wives have long memories....if you do R she will still remember your actions years from now.
> 
> Was she worth the fight, or did you just want to win a battle by the scorched earth method?


Your last comment is a good point.

Is she really worth all this?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I go against the grain in one place.

I am NOT a fan of work exposure 90% of the time. Potentially reducing the income of a spouse can backfire on the betrayed in alimony for one. The big exeption is when you can expose the om/ow for using company time and your spouse works elsewhere.

Im Klingon. I have no problem with laying waste to the ow/om. The best revenge IS living well... While the other person who helped wreck your marriage suffers.

Regarding advice several above, being sugar sweet very rarely works in bringing back a cheater and more often than not, drives them away.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Don't any of you worry about the legal implications of the advise given here?

If anyone messed with my job, contacted my family or friends, used a VAR or a GPS to track me without my knowledge, I'd sue their happy ass. 

Just because you are married, it does not mean you can do whatever you want because you have a jerky spouse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LonelyinLove said:


> Wow. I thought we lived in adult land.
> 
> Contact the wife's employer? And they are supposed to do what, exactly? My employer would say "so what"....
> 
> ...


A couple of good points mixed with absolute rubbish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_P.S. Betrayed spouses of either gender have long memories.

Haughty cheaters can bite rocks if they don't like repercussions for acting like a goat in heat.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> Don't any of you worry about the legal implications of the advise given here?
> 
> If anyone messed with my job, contacted my family or friends, used a VAR or a GPS to track me without my knowledge, I'd sue their happy ass.
> 
> Just because you are married, it does not mean you can do whatever you want because you have a jerky spouse.


Sue for what? Telling the truth? You could try but you can bet you would be laughed out of court. That's assuming, of course, you could find an attorney idiotic enough to take your case.

The GPS is a grey area though.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

3putt said:


> Sue for what? Telling the truth? You could try but can bet you would be laughed out of court. That's assuming, of course, yoru could find an attorney idiotic enough to take your case.


Wrong. I know someone who was recorded in their home office. The recording caught a conference call from work with propriatory information.

They would have been in trouble had the employee told. 

In that state at least one of the parties being recorded must be aware of it.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Meh. I just made a list of demands. Meet them or hit the effing road. 
As far as her having a long memory.... fine . Remember how I acted during that time, but also remember how you acted prior to that time.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> Wrong. I know someone who was recorded in their home office. The recording caught a conference call from work with propriatory information.
> 
> They would have been in trouble had the employee told.
> 
> In that state at least one of the parties being recorded must be aware of it.


If they placed a recorder in their home office knowing it was a primary place of business, then they may have a problem. But you're talking about one bad judgment versus the hundreds, if not thousands, of times it has paid off in spades.

And the employee might not have told because if he had he may have been fired for doing more play from home than work. Just a thought.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LonelyinLove said:


> Don't any of you worry about the legal implications of the advise given here?
> 
> If anyone messed with my job, contacted my family or friends, used a VAR or a GPS to track me without my knowledge, I'd sue their happy ass.
> 
> Just because you are married, it does not mean you can do whatever you want because you have a jerky spouse.


I agree with some of your points but you put yourself in the place of a cheater with the attitude you are displaying and you would quickly become a divorced cheater. You can sue all you want but exposure isn't illegal either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

I had a similar issue to the OP with a family member (not my H).

I am the PI Queen, and I had my butt chewed royally by an attorney for doing similar things to what you suggest. I was told in no uncertain terms to back off, affairs are not illegal, and I would be the one in trouble. 

This was in NY state.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> I had a similar issue to the OP with a family member (not my H).
> 
> I am the PI Queen, and I had my butt chewed royally by an attorney for doing similar things to what you suggest. I was told in no uncertain terms to back off, affairs are not illegal, and I would be the one in trouble.
> 
> This was in NY state.


Attorney's always tell the BS to back off, otherwise they don't get paid. That's common sense around here.

We have yet to see one BS get into any trouble employing the methods we advise.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

3putt said:


> Attorney's always tell the BS to back off, otherwise they don't get paid. That's common sense around here.
> 
> We haveS yet to see one BS get into any trouble employing the methods we advise.


This was the attorney for the BS and I was paying him.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> This was the attorney for the BS and I was paying him.


I know it was. A divorce attorney doesn't want to see his client do anything that will potentially reduce or wreck his payday. We see it *all the time*.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

3putt said:


> I know it was. A divorce attorney doesn't want to see his client do anything that will potentially reduce or wreck his payday. We see it *all the time*.


How would that wreck payday? He was paid regardless and what I snooped on was the child molesting OW. 

No matter what I found he told me he would not use it. I looked for another attorney was was given the same advice...stop the spying, stop contacting people, and if I didn't the judge would go after me.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> How would that wreck payday? He was paid regardless and what I snooped on was the child molesting OW.
> 
> No matter what I found he told me he would not use it. I looked for another attorney was was given the same advice...stop the spying, stop contacting people, and if I didn't the judge would go after me.


Not all attys get paid 100% up front. That's how.

The atty couldn't legally use it in court anyway. The info isn't supposed to be collected for legal reasons, but for discovery reasons. And as far as the judge is concerned, while it would never get that far, it's still just another scare tactic attys use.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

I was barred from the waiting area in family court in Erie County, NY by the judge in the case. She verbally chewed me out in the court room.

All I did was report easily verifiable facts and I was the one in trouble. I also took a child to an ER with a bruise in the shape of an adult hand and I was admonished by the court.

This is a no win depending on where you live.

Also, the BS contacted the employer of her H. He had threatened harm to his co-workers and she believed him. Again, this was used against HER in court.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> I was barred from the waiting area in family court in Erie County, NY by the judge in the case. She verbally chewed me out in the court room.
> 
> All I did was report easily verifiable facts and I was the one in trouble. I also took a child to an ER with a bruise in the shape of an adult hand and I was admonished by the court.
> 
> This is a no win depending on where you live.


Well, that has nothing to do with what we're discussing here. That has to do with a poor judge and system in a child abuse case.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

3putt said:


> Well, that has nothing to do with what we're discussing here. That has to do with a poor judge and system in a child abuse case.


It has everything to do with the OP..do we know where he lives? What is the law concerning recordings? What if they D and he gets a dipstick judge? What if the family gets pissed and considers it harassment? 

He might win with the Intel but he may lose anyway.

And in my case, it was a divorce case because the H was cheater, it was not a child abuse case.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> It has everything to do with the OP..do we know where he lives? What is the law concerning recordings? What if they D and he gets a dipstick judge? What if the family gets pissed and considers it harassment?
> 
> He might win with the Intel but he may lose anyway.


Are you not reading anything I write to you? I clearly stated that the info gained from any of the methods we employ are not for the purpose of legal maneuvering, but for discovery and confirmation of an affair.

What is so difficult about this to comprehend?


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

LonelyinLove said:


> I had a similar issue to the OP with a family member (not my H).
> 
> I am the PI Queen, and I had my butt chewed royally by an attorney for doing similar things to what you suggest. I was told in no uncertain terms to back off, affairs are not illegal, and I would be the one in trouble.
> 
> This was in NY state.


NYC Detective 25 years.. 

NY is a 1 party state, which mean only one person that is PRESENT during the conversation and is PART of the conversation has to know.. 

So if this person AUDIO recorded his office and Person B and Person C were having a conversation that home office owner Person A was NOT part of.. Well then yes he is committing a crime.. 

BUT if Person A was part of this call and it was a 3 party call. He could in fact record this call.. AGAIN UNLESS he previously signed a DND form prior to the call.. 

NYS you need a search warrant for a GPS.. 

But I can tell you since I have been part of 1000, upon 1000s of arrest. .I have executed 100's of search warrants.. I instructed people on how to debrief prisoners for search warrants and how to cultivate informants ( yes we have training classes for that stuff ).. I have testified 1000s of times in court and have been deemed an expert in computer forensics in all the 5 boroughs of NYC.. 

So I have dealt with an assorted number of computer and electronic investigations.. 

I can tell you no ADA ( Assistant District Attorney) in these 5 boroughs and I can tell you in specifically in the Bronx and Brooklyn would never prosecute a spouse for secretly audio ( and possibly video ) recording their cheating spouse fvcking some other person in their car.. 

Further I don't think they would entertain the GPS nonsense either.. Though I could see someone with political clout making enough of a stink to get some sort of process rolling. But in the end it would be dropped down to disorderly conduct and probably some BS counseling session to make sure they are not a stalker..

But beyond this, I would suggest you instruct all cheating spouse to either wear some sort of clothing that will announce* "I AM GOING OUT TO CHEAT ON YOU NOW AND FVCK SOME OTHER PERSON"*

Or some sort of note or verbal comment making it clear their intent to do so..

Because I didn't understand it when my ex-wife said she was going to work, but actually was at a motel fvcking some other man.. I some how lost that message in that translation..

I would love to hear what message you have for this man's wife.. 

What's your spin on what he *SHOULD DO* instead of instructing on what he shouldn't do and what you think he isn't allowed to do..

You basically told the guy you can't go left but never clarified if he can go straight or right..


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LonelyinLove said:


> Don't any of you worry about the legal implications of the advise given here?
> 
> If anyone messed with my job, contacted my family or friends, used a VAR or a GPS to track me without my knowledge, I'd sue their happy ass.


Disclaimers are given all the time, and this is one of THE primary reasons that a BS should refuse to give up his or her sources.

And precisely how would you go about suing someone for doing nothing more than informing your employer and/or family that you'd been f*cking around w/ a co-worker, and possibly on company time, using company resources to hide it, etc ...?

After all, it's only slander if it isn't true.



LonelyinLove said:


> Just because you are married, it does not mean you can do whatever you want because you have a jerky spouse.


Your username suddenly makes a lot of sense to me.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LonelyinLove said:


> I had a similar issue to the OP with a family member (not my H).
> 
> I am the PI Queen, and I had my butt chewed royally by an attorney for doing similar things to what you suggest. I was told in no uncertain terms to back off, affairs are not illegal, and I would be the one in trouble.
> 
> This was in NY state.


Newyorkistan?

Makes sense.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LonelyinLove said:


> Wrong. I know someone who was recorded in their home office. The recording caught a conference call from work with propriatory information.
> 
> They would have been in trouble had the employee told.
> 
> In that state at least one of the parties being recorded must be aware of it.


So then edit out the conference call.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LonelyinLove said:


> How would that wreck payday? He was paid regardless and what I snooped on was the child molesting OW.
> 
> No matter what I found he told me he would not use it. I looked for another attorney was was given the same advice...stop the spying, stop contacting people, and if I didn't the judge would go after me.


Absent a legally-admissible confession from an adulterous spouse (and let's face it, most aren't going to cop to it in open court or on paper), the burden of proof w/ respect to adultery is pretty high, so most divorce attorneys tend to advise their clients to file for "no fault" divorces as opposed to filing citing adultery as the clause.

Hell, this is often the case even in states where adultery has the potential to impact the division of property or whether or not spousal support is awarded. After all, if it can't be conclusively proven via means that meet the burden of proof, then it just doesn't matter.

Divorce attorneys are usually pretty detached. They HAVE to be. They don't care if their clients' spouses have been f*cking the entire neighborhood -- their goal is to get through the process involved in each divorce w/ as little paperwork filed, time spent in court, etc possible. And then they're on to the next.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

LonelyinLove said:


> It has everything to do with the OP..do we know where he lives? What is the law concerning recordings? What if they D and he gets a dipstick judge? What if the family gets pissed and considers it harassment?
> 
> He might win with the Intel but he may lose anyway.
> 
> And in my case, it was a divorce case because the H was cheater, it was not a child abuse case.


Understand these recordings are NOT so he can play them at parties for family and friends.. 

They are to gather INTEL.. Is she saying no baby I won't talk to him anymore and then runs out into the car to call this man and tell him what a jerk off her husband is and how stupid he is to think she isn't talking to him anymore..

With all my smarts.. I caught my wife with 1 burner phone and my 12 year old son knew about the 2nd burner phone she got the next day AFTER we were in counseling together where she made a speaker phone call to this other man on this burner phone to tell him they were done, in front of me and the therapist.. Even the other man said she would not be talking like this if they were together alone.. Even he called her out on it.. 

Nonetheless that was a Sunday.. Monday she had what is commonly known as an obama phone.. 

How do you combat someone when you call their work and co-workers are covering for them telling you they are busy but are not actually there.. 

Turns off find my iphone when go to meet.. *"I swear I didn't do a thing, I don't know why it just turns off"*

I can only assume your notion is they got caught cheating which means immediate divorce... Because you're not giving any insight on how he should combat this affair and how he can go about to terminate it and of course to make sure it actually it is terminated..

Being one of those suckers that fell for fake reconciliation.. Trust me I can tell you, if you haven't dealt with it yourself.. It sucks.. It sucks worse the 2nd time around..Because any and all glimmer of hope has just crashed down around you, on top of it you feel like a bigger d!ck and a fool for being lied to AGAIN.. 

That this person you would have died for would double cross you even worse and put a lie upon another lie just so they can bide their time to leave you.. Just so they can decide when is a good time for them to leave.. My Ex-wife plan required her to wait for the apartment to be ready and of course to take 6 thousand dollars out of our 10k bank account.. 

Of course I could have said fvck you, you got 6k the other 4k is mine.. But of course she could make a complaint against me so I had to STFU and I had to pretend and explain in a nice way to her even after asking where the 6k just went, that I would be dividing the other 4k so she would have 2k and I would have 2k and then we would close the account.. 

I would have done anything and did anything for this woman.. I worked and came the fvck home.. I worked more so she didn't.. 

With all of this she still felt the need to crush me even more before she left.. 

But I/we should be worried that she is gonna try to sue me ? For catching her being a lying piece of sh!t kunt ? 

Trust me the only person that needs to worry is someone in law enforcement because they have a gun and the simple reality is they are expected to know the law and enforce it without judgment, that includes themselves..

If I were joe the plumber, my Ex-wife would have been out on her a$$ the minute she stepped out to go fvck this guy the minute I came home from work.. But I wasn't so I had to see the woman I loved.. The woman I would have done anything for, pick up her phone.. Call or receive a call from this other man.. Oh and I knew it was him because she gave him a distinct ring tone and the contact pic was them out on the town during the affair.. 

But nonetheless, she would get dressed in some sort of stylish sweat suit and then go out for 4 hours and then come back home.. I could only wonder what they could have been doing for those 4 hours ? Talking ? Playing chess or checkers ?...

That is of course until one thursday she just left and didn't come home until monday.. I thought I was a wreck until my brother told me I had to come home because my youngest was sobbing in tears for his mother and he was having a hard time consoling him.. He felt I needed to be home for my son.. It was a 40 minute drive.. He still looked like he was crying when I got in the door.. And he cried again when I hugged him..

But please I am* STILL WAITING* on what instructions you have for this man.. 

His wife shouldn't jump after being caught fvcking someone else ? 

What he should be allowed to be mad for one day ? 
And then what bite his tongue and carry on in his marriage like it never happened because if he should have an outburst he is WRONG ?...

D-Day 9/25/2012 - It was almost midnight I was here.. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/70-million-lawsuit-city-nypd-move-article-1.1776141

when I found out my wife was cheating on me..

D-Day #2 December 31, 2012.. Bought him a christmas present.. The girls at work gave her the heads up it came via text. It's a REALLY NICE JACKET.. HE WILL LIKE IT... Awe, how sweet of them.. 

I knew these girls and women for YEARS.. I've helped just about everyone in her office out with some sort of issue in the past.. Ex boyfriend issues.. Wife issues.. Husband issues.. employee stealing issues.. 

From January 1st to April 16th 2013.. I had to watch as my wife would go out and fvck this guy several times during the week and on the weekends she would go out all day and come back at night.. 

From begging her to stay I begged her to please leave and she wouldn't until she was ready.. 

Again my simple point with all of this rhetoric is if I wasn't a cop things would have been different because joe the plumber doesn't really lose his job because he got arrested for tossing his wife out on her a$$ for getting caught cheating on him.. But Joe the cop does no questions asked.. Joe the cop would be screwed long after his divorce was finalized.. Can you imagine that.. I know cops that had pending investigations years after their ex wives were long gone and some instance in another STATE...


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Absent a legally-admissible confession from an adulterous spouse (and let's face it, most aren't going to cop to it in open court or on paper), the burden of proof w/ respect to adultery is pretty high, so most divorce attorneys tend to advise their clients to file for "no fault" divorces as opposed to filing citing adultery as the clause.
> 
> Hell, this is often the case even in states where adultery has the potential to impact the division of property or whether or not spousal support is awarded. After all, if it can't be conclusively proven via means that meet the burden of proof, then it just doesn't matter.
> 
> Divorce attorneys are usually pretty detached. They HAVE to be. They don't care if their clients' spouses have been f*cking the entire neighborhood -- their goal is to get through the process involved in each divorce w/ as little paperwork filed, time spent in court, etc possible. And then they're on to the next.


NYS Adultery only matters if you can prove that the cheating spouse grossly neglected their child to in fact commit the adultery... But even then the cheating spouse can just say the other person hit me.. Sadly both complaints would just cancel each other out..


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Legal or not, you can tape um. You can track um. You can make um write no contact letters. You can report them to their employer, preacher, priest, mom, dad, brother, sister. You call tell everybody and their cousin how they cheated and screw up your marriage. You may be able to cajole them into staying in the marriage. But you can't make them give a crap about you, get excited by your touch, love it when you're together, and no one makes them as happy as you. 
If you're willing to do the above to keep them, don't worry about being Plan B. The rest of your marriage and/or time together will be Plan B at best.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> Could I hear from any spouses who had an affair? even an emotional one


I had a workplace EA. My W tried to nice me back,even as I broke her heart. Had a sick MC who thought she should appreciate I didn't escalate to a PA. She didn't do any of the steps here, no exposure anywhere. We worked together 6 months, then had occasional email contact. I kept and treasured those contacts, which could have been defended. "Just friends, no ILY" etc. 

Took YEARS to get past it. 

If she had gotten advice here and followed it, I would have been seriously P!SSED.

But we would have been over it fairly quickly, one way or another. And my W would have been spared a lot of suffering.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Legal or not, you can tape um. You can track um. You can make um write no contact letters. You can report them to their employer, preacher, priest, mom, dad, brother, sister. You call tell everybody and their cousin how they cheated and screw up your marriage. You may be able to cajole them into staying in the marriage. But you can't make them give a crap about you, get excited by your touch, love it when you're together, and no one makes them as happy as you.
> If you're willing to do the above to keep them, don't worry about being Plan B. The rest of your marriage and/or time together will be Plan B at best.


Yeah, I think we're all aware of your position on this by now. And most of us also know _why_. 

These kinds of comments are not helpful to those that have the cajones to at least try and make an effort to save their marriages and families.

It doesn't have to be the way you like to lay things out consistently, like it's the only possible ending. Got news for you; it's not.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Thank you Vulcan for your candor. How do you feel about her now? Don't get me wrong I'm not paralleling you to my wife. She will probably not get to where u are ever.... are you still married?


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

I think she's awesome! She always was, it was me who was terrible. 

Cheaters always treat their BS horribly. We rewrite history to make ourselves the victim. Because we don't want to look at ourselves as terrible, the spouse must be awful. 

One difference between men and women; women are repelled by weakness. I didn't find her less attractive because she wanted me in spite of my bad behavior. I think women are. 

Early on, I was going to urge you to man the eff up, but within a few pages...you manned the eff up!

She needs to do the heavy lifting, and her work can only earn the chance for you to _consider _ R. You may not be able to even if she does everything right. 

Hang in there, you've made good progress. 

ETA:Oh, we're separated, and working on it. Not considering D.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

3putt said:


> These kinds of comments are not helpful to those that have the cajones to at least try and make an effort to save their marriages and families.


Good luck. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you can whip them into shape and have them believe you're, once again, the cat's pajamas.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> I go against the grain in one place.
> 
> I am NOT a fan of work exposure 90% of the time. Potentially reducing the income of a spouse can backfire on the betrayed in alimony for one. The big exeption is when you can expose the om/ow for using company time and your spouse works elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Having been here awhile,I can't recall one instance where a lost job resulted in higher alimony. I have heard judges demanding the fired, unemployed, stay at home spouse get a job. Also that judges will base alimony on the salary the spouse was making before he/she quit or got fired.

The correct thing would be to see what the state you're living in expects.

Number one, the advise lawyers give on breaking up an affair and reconciling is counter productive, perhaps because it would cost them money.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pistal said:


> Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why, then, do so many of them seem to advocate for the quickest, least painful route to divorce possible?

Either way, there is a difference between your run-of-the-mill divorce attorney working for Joe Everyman and the divorce attorneys that work for the Kennedys and Rockefellers of the world.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Uh. Let's get back to the OP. Pleeeeese....


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

FH, you've gotten the goods from been there, done that, got the tee guys here, it's your call.
Me, I'm a take no prisoners, lay in your hedge type, and WISH I could give some BS's my total detachment sometimes.
I ENVY those that can feel deeply, but thankful I can't.
I feel you have this, as you are one of the fortunate few BS who is not in the fog.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

pistal said:


> I don't know that "many" are this way but I grant you that there are some attorneys who are ethical and do the right thing and they're not all out to bilk their clients for as much of their assets as they possibly can.
> 
> The ones that tell their clients during that first consult that they're going to rake their soon to be ex spouse over the coals and promise them that they're going to get so much more of the assets and support if they fight tooth and nail seem to be the more commonplace.
> 
> At least that's been my experience, both on a personal level and from what I've read of others.


LOL... probably depends on which of the two spouses a given lawyer is representing. I don't know that men get this type of feedback from their divorce attorneys very often.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

The discussion has kind of gotten off track on the legalities of looking into other peoples business etc. Im surprisingly not worried about any court stuff or looking to stick it to her (scortched earth). Our kids are young and the whole mess belongs to all of us and any alimony will just be spent on them, which would be anyhow. I appreciate the info from all sides but the fact is that in my case I do not really have any further need to "james bond" her. I know she had a heavy emotional affair that went physical, if it is still going on is unknown but that is irrelevant. She has to want to stop, give me the proof anyone would require to know that the affair is over, and show massive amounts of true remorse... Or we divorce. I agree that she cannot be penned or forced into this and have any shot at happiness or reconciliation with my W. And I agree, my boys will be better off seeing me in a healthy relationship then wondering why we don't dance at weddings and sleep in separate rooms. That's Bullsh** and I wont have them mirror a marriage like that in their lives. 

BTW:

I have purchased the book "no more mr nice guy" this morning and so far into chaper 1, I meet a lot of that criteria in that book. 

through This process since discovery I have been working on myself to correct my own issues and that has gone well so far, this book I hope is as good as everyone says and I hope for it to compliment my other self help studies which have included:

love languages
compassion and self compassion (this was a good study and I highly recommend to everyone)
readings on sex and pleasure (because why not learn how to give a woman a squirting orgasm)
the meaning of true intimacy and how to obtain it in daily life
studies on relationships, etc etc lots of what has been brought up by you fine people.

I was/am a big fan of Michele Werner Davis and Divorce busting. I like her approaches and passion for marriage but with a WS in or right out of an affair with lack of remorse her methods have not produced enough salt for me......and I am tired of being passive. (the 180 has not really worked in the last 6 weeks).

Regardless of the outcome of this marriage I will be on much more solid footing in future relationships with my wife or other women. I welcome any comments or support for what has worked to help you all in your relationships after an affair including that of WS's I do really want to look at this from all angles, regarless of our path.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get the two books linked to below. Go read the reviews at amazon.

The 180 is a tool to prepare for separation divorce. It's not a tool to save a marriage. The purpose of the 180 is to disconnect from one's spouse and let her go.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It looks like your wife is acting like someone still in an affair.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Is your wife reading the books? Is she going to counseling? Is she apologizing?


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Get the two books linked to below. Go read the reviews at amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> The 180 is a tool to prepare for separation divorce. It's not a tool to save a marriage. The purpose of the 180 is to disconnect from one's spouse and let her go.


titles don't come up its also a MWD "divorce busting" tool that is effective in letting the WS know you are checking out.



Chaparral said:


> It looks like your wife is acting like someone still in an affair.


I have my suspicions... the point is if its underground Im not going to bother looking for it she has to show transparency willingly......



Chaparral said:


> Is your wife reading the books? Is she going to counseling? Is she apologizing?


Nope, (and I'm doing this for myself), Stopped showing to MC and said she would go to PC but never did to my knowledge, apologies are never forthcoming and not nearly good or frequent enough. Avoider, rug sweeper, I have stopped most all unnecessary communication with her where I at one time would corner her every chance I got..... Look - I know its all BS on her part. It all needs to come from her. I would take part but I refuse to do any more heavily lifting until I see MASSIVE realization and effort from her. Were probably shot here, I just want to soak it all up from you all while I have your attention.....


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Download the divorce packet for your state or pick it up at the county court house. Make sure she sees it. She is either still in the affair or simply think you wont divorce her.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> Download the divorce packet for your state or pick it up at the county court house. Make sure she sees it. She is either still in the affair or simply think you wont divorce her.


I think its time I just file. hey what are the books?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

foolishheart said:


> I think its time I just file. hey what are the books?


Yes. File. 

And continue with the 180. It is for you, not for her. It was never to save your marriage. It is to help you detach, which, in the way the wording of your e-mails has changed over the last week or so, I would say the 180 has been working for you to some extent. Just think of how much farther along you would be if you really worked hard at applying it? 

The self-improvement parts of the 180 are the ones that, I think, are the ones that BSs should concentrate on. They are there to help you feel better about yourself and your situation. Concentrate on those.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

foolishheart said:


> I think its time I just file. hey what are the books?


married mans sex life primer and no more mister nice guy


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

foolishheart said:


> the 180 has not really worked in the last 6 weeks


That's because it's not a 'tool' to elicit a response in her. It's not a trick. It's not manipulation.

All it is is a way to remove YOU and YOUR HEAD out of the mucked-up dance that is your marriage, so that you can get YOURSELF out of the BS Fog. You know, that fog that causes you to dance like a puppet to elicit the response you want from your wayward spouse because all you care about is keeping her.

The 180 is a mental health program YOU incorporate into your life to get YOU to a better place mentally. The more you focus on YOUR life and what you're doing (by no longer focusing on what she is doing), the more free you feel, the stronger, the better.

And of course, once you reach that place, you approach HER from a position of strength (I want you but I don't need you) and thus can reach better results all around.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Okay, you've asked for someone who has weathered this storm so here goes. In summary, I had an EA when my marriage to my ex was on the fritz. No PA, I didn't let it get that far but easily could have. I divorced my ex anyway since my epiphany was to realize my EA was a symptom, not the cause, of the deep problems in our marriage. Did counselling, calm discussion, heated arguments and in the end we decided it was best for everyone to end it. Hardest and best decision of my life.

So, as the BS here are some things for you to know if you want to try to save your marriage:

1. Her EA/PA is entirely hers to own. You have no responsibility for her choices. She can stop what she is doing at any time if she has the respect for herself and your marriage (her vows) to do so.

2. You do own whatever issues in your marriage built to the point of her feeling emotionally neglected enough to reach out to another man. Assuming you both loved each other intensely once, something went wrong. You both likely got lazy. You can deal with this but only after Part 3.

3. Getting her to dump this OM will require an ultimatum on your part. "Him or me" and mean it. Be prepared to divorce and do it calmly without drama. That will shock her more than anything. This is a high-stakes all or nothing game you are playing.

4. Do 180 for your own sake asap and your kids. Protect your mental health.

Go visit marriagebuilders site. Will Harley has some really good articles that will help you understand what likely went wrong. None of which will matter moving forward until she chooses you over him. Until that time its all about you and your kids. 

Good luck.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

I am truly sorry are here.

However you offered up no consequences the first time round but instead allowed the foul behavour to flourish.

She still has a burner phone and seperate accounts.

I would safely say the affair is still going on.

You need to man up.

Expose the affair immediately to the other mans wife, seperate any joint accounts to your name and file for Divorce.

You wife is in a deep fog not to mention the lack of respect she is showing towards you as she deems you dont have a back bone.

Sorry to come accross harsh but unless your wife understands that you are willing to blow up the marriage and her foul behavour will no longer be tolerated nothing will ever change.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> I have my suspicions... the point is if its underground Im not going to bother looking for it she has to show transparency willingly......


What the hell are you waiting for? Suspicions? File the damn divorce. IT'S SO OBVIOUS SHE'S STILL FVCKING THIS GUY. What's it going take? You coming home one afternoon and him nailing your wife in your bed? How much proof will satisfy you? She has no respect for you. Come on man. 



foolishheart said:


> Look - I know its all BS on her part. It all needs to come from her. I would take part but I refuse to do any more heavily lifting until I see MASSIVE realization and effort from her. Were probably shot here, I just want to soak it all up from you all while I have your attention.....


Soak this up. You will NEVER get a sincere apology from her. She's not sorry, she's repulsed by you. She thinks you're spineless. You let her get away with banging another man with no REAL repercussions so far. You being so pathetic only justifies the lack of attraction she has for you and validates her ego that she settled for less of a man. 

Kick her A$$ to the curb. I'd never take her back even if she stopped fvcking the guy tomorrow. She's a remorseless cheater and she'll always lust after other men. Go find a nice girl man, you're chasing after the used up village bicycle when you the opportunity to go shopping for a Harley.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

Update- filed for D.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

foolishheart said:


> Update- filed for D.


Sorry to hear. This crap happens.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sorry man.
Did you find more or just had enough.
One day at a time.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I hope you served her at work.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Kudos


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

foolishheart said:


> Update- filed for D.


Sorry its failed but at this point you were the only one left in the marriage


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

foolishheart said:


> Update- filed for D.


Good step, man.

A year from now you will be in an entirely different place, and this will have been a crucial turning point for you.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

from what i see she desire's the bad dude. she desires what she cant get. she openly dates a man that's about to be married and is married.
there is no hope for reconciliation in this. her problem is you. you core of being a nice guy.
trust me when you are already dating a lot of women, she will come crawling back. not because she wants R, but because you are again desirable. don't take her back but f* her if she wants.

don't ever R with your wife. she is no longer the woman you married.


-"fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!"

accepting a failed marriage. accept it for what it is. shet happens in life (people get run over or get hit by lightning or eaten by sharks)

*live knowing that what good came out of this tragedy, was you having beautiful children. they will grow calling you dad.*

learn that this happens to a lot of families.
learn that children can have a happy childhood even with divorce.
learn to not worry about the children they will find there own way in life.
learn that sooner the children may have 2 fathers just like they may have 2 mothers. 
-need co-parenting counseling or divorce counseling to get past this
learn to forgive your wife, forgiving does not mean reconciling.
learn to forgive yourself.
learn to believe that there is always a better life after divorce


Wanna heal fast, my tip. find another woman fast, . just get out there go to clubs bars,have casual relations, casual sex, socialize with women, have ONS and etc.
-its not like your gonna marry impromptu the next girl you meet
-and don't play the "i have children that need to be cared for" card or "the im not social person" card
-children will be taken care of by relatives if need be.
-you have been free'd from marriage it is time to access and tap that freedom. go forth and f* ^_^


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

foolishheart said:


> Update- filed for D.


About damn time....

It's for your own good. SHE destroyed the relationship not you.

You just filled out the paper work and made it official.

Eventually, you will look back and realized you made the right decision.

You'll find another woman who is not a piece of trash.

You couldn't do much worse than this remorseless creature even if you tried.


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## foolishheart (Jul 15, 2015)

tom67 said:


> Sorry man.
> Did you find more or just had enough.
> One day at a time.


Enough is simply enough. It isn't even the matter of her lack of remorse. That could be linked to pride. It's the absence of any compassion for me over time.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

She'll probably find you more appealing since you've become decisive. Expect a last minute hoover, and another one when you start dating.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

foolishheart said:


> Update- filed for D.


Congratulations on taking the first step towards the rest of your life.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

foolishheart said:


> Enough is simply enough. It isn't even the matter of her lack of remorse. That could be linked to pride. *It's the absence of any compassion for me over time*.


Then you know it was time to act and in which direction to go in.

The only direction she left you.

Sad for you but glad you tried.

It takes two. One (you) cannot do it alone.


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