# Stuck...just need a vent



## Leafwhisper (Jul 11, 2014)

I am in a unique circumstance and can't really do anything about it right now, but really just need to get it out. In brief, we've been married eleven years, two kids, and although we've had plenty of issues he has never given me reason to think he was unfaithful. Two years ago he started a new business venture and took on a female friend as a partner. She is also married with children. I didn't think anything until I got a call from a car dealership asking how our new car was doing. I asked him about it and he said he co- signed a loan for her. I was ticked, but his reasoning was that the nice car would look good when they meet clients. I let it go. A few months later I get a call from Travelocity asking how I liked my single night hotel stay at a local hotel. I confronted him about it and he said it was for another employee who didn't have a car so he could be close to the work site. I dropped it, but started paying more attention to things. I went away to visit my family in December and when I came back I happened to be printing something off his computer when I noticed an email from her and it was very suggestive. I scrolled down and found numerous other suggestive emails, plus one from the previous August where he talks about their previous night together as being the high of his life. I confronted him about having a relationship with her and he said that they were very close because of the common factor of both being in bad marriages (which I knew we had differences, but I had been working on it), but that nothing physical was going on. I dropped it and started focusing on me. I have lost a ton of weight, started wearing makeup and nicer clothes, and am going back to school so I can get an actual self supporting career. I also revved up cleaning the house and being more outgoing in bed. Everything has been looking great and he has been much more attentive and we are finally communicating. But then I went to visit family again a week ago and when I came back he seemed tense. I checked the history on his computer and saw that while I was away he watched tons of porn ( that doesn't bother me so much), but that he also googled " sex with best friend" and clicked on the link "11 reasons to have sex with your best friend". I also saw that he has a hotel frequent stay card. I looked up his account and saw that he has gotten a room five times since March and was looking up romance packages, so I doubt those were all for his worker, who he had since fired anyway. So all these months when I've been working my butt off to save our marriage, and he gave the impression that it was working, and now I find out that he's just been a masterful liar leading two lives. The problem is that I can't leave him at least until I am done with school and get a job, which is in two years. I have no local family and moving near my family in another state is out of the question. I am in school full time and only work part time. My credit is shot so I couldn't even get in an apartment, plus I don't have enough to pay the bills by myself. His income is sporadic and he'd never support me, so I am pretty much stuck putting up the act of the good, oblivious wife until I can finish school. It is eating me up emotionally, but I don't feel I have any other options right now. My friends just say to leave him, which is totally not helpful. I thought about finding someone for myself on the side, but I don't know if that would help or hurt the situation. I can't imagine anyone else having been stuck in this kind of situation, but I would love to hear from anyone who had even a remotely similar experience and how you coped.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

He is cheating.
Do you want to stay married for financial reasons?
Are you sure you are not risking STDs?


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## Leafwhisper (Jul 11, 2014)

Financial reasons is a big part, but I also for whatever insane reason, especially after all of the evidence, still love him and want us to be a family. I have taken full stock of all of my shortcomings and am sincerely working hard on improving my life and the household. I worked like mad to lose weight and dropped almost forty pounds in three months so I am looking really hot again. I don't know what else I can do and he's just having so much fun with her that I am sure he doesn't want that to stop. He obviously wants both lives. I think my jealousy is also heightened because he goes out to eat with her every day, stays in a nice hotel room, and they go out to the casino a few times a week. Meanwhile I am at home day after day, taking care of our children, the house, and never can go out and do anything fun. I know, I sound like a whiner. I am trying so hard not to wallow in self pity, but sometimes it's tough.

As far as std's go, I'm sure there is a risk. I haven't been with anyone else and I doubt she's been with anyone but him and her own husband, but I don't know if her husband's been with anyone else. I know he suspects she's cheating, so who knows what he's doing. But mine is adamant that nothing is going on and if he found out that I was snooping he'd freak out and leave, even though my snooping was justified. From me he only ever wants oral, which I know you can still get stuff from, but in my twisted mind I am telling myself that it's not as bad. I know, I am completely delusional. It's my current coping mechanism. Obviously it isn't working too well, thus why I am here.


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Two years is way too long of a time to live like this. I'm glad you are in school and working on a better career, but there's got to be a better way to get there than live with a cheater, plus the std issues mentioned, since your cheating husband does not care about your feelings, why would he care about your health.

I would not do any more soft confronts, especially if you don't want to save the marriage, it won't do anything, and if you DO want to save to marriage, it will drive him deeper underground in hiding things.

If you do want out you should save your sanity and find a way. Is there anyone you can share an apartment with? You may have to shift to working more and going more part time on school, but it can be done. You and your physical and mental health will be letter in the long run.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Dear leafwhisper,

This is no way to live. Do you want your cheating husband to fund your studies and thus allow you stand on your own?

Stop assuming that you did not look hot and good and that's why he cheated on you.

You are not responsible for his cheating.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

Collect all your evidence, put it in an envelope and send it to her husband.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You're in the typical crisis fog where you can't see all your options. You are rejecting options without full information and without looking for creative ways to make them happen. Same sort of thing happens when one gets unexpectedly laid off from a job.

First, you should talk to an attorney. Your husband may be legally liable to support you through school. You may have more rights than you realize. Also you may have some leverage to get support from your husband even if he doesn't legally owe it to you. His mistress is married. He may prefer to give you a quick divorce and some financial support rather than drag everything out into the open. It may also be that infidelity is a factor in your location for the divorce settlement. And, you may be able to sue the mistress for "alienation of affection".

Make copies of all the evidence, btw. Store it in several safe places so he cannot destroy it.

Try to brainstorm arrangements or outcomes which would be acceptable to you, then try to find creative ways to make it happen. For example you mentioned living with your parents. Can you switch colleges to one near them? Can you do online college classes while living with them and working part time? (One of my daughters is in a fully accredited graduate program which is entirely online). If your stbxh gave you $500 per month for two years could you work part time and go to school without moving to your parents' house? Would your parents loan you some money?

Federal grants and financial aid may be far more generous than you assume. Go talk to the finaid office at your college, and be very frank with them about your situation. Your stbxh's income won't count against you if you are divorced. You're too old for your parents' income to be a factor.

Can you get a job somewhere which will help you with college costs? For example if you work for a hospital as a nursing aid they may have a tuition reimbursement benefit which would pay for you to go half time to college.

What about a quicker training program? For example a cosmetology school. Then work for a year or two learning how the business works and then open your own salon. Or learn medical billing and get a part time job which then combines with student financial aid to get you through a 4 year college degree.

So start with the end goal and then brainstorm all wild ideas to help you get there. Ask for help by going to the financial aid office, talk to your parents, ask friends, and for sure talk to an attorney. Many attys will give a free 15 minute consult where you can find out how your situation is likely to play out in a divorce settlement.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

+1 on the advice to talk to a lawyer. Find out your rights and responsibilities. Your husband shouldn't get to "choose" to provide you support. The difficulty will likely be that with having his own company, he'll have many options for hiding income. 

Have you talked to the OW's husband yet?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

If it's bothering you now, how do you think you'll stick it out for two more years? Even one year is a LONG time. You love him now - your resentment is going to start poisoning that, though. Having sex with him is basically servicing him since there's no emotional intimacy between you (that would require openness and honesty) - and since you don't know where he's putting that thing when he's with her, doesn't that thought creep you out if the thought of STD's doesn't?

And by the way, if you've had intercourse even once with him since he's been unfaithful, you have to have a pap with an HPV test. He can't be tested for HPV, only women can. And certain strains of HPV can lead to cervical cancer. Even if he's using condoms, those do not protect against the spread of HPV. And cervical cancer can kill you. Don't fool around with this - other people on TAM have gotten HPV this way.

You're only as stuck as you allow yourself to be. You're basically providing housekeeping and "other" services to him, and the OW appears to be his primary relationship - she's certainly having all the fun, isn't she? That's pretty degrading. Your friends are seeing this more clearly than you are. Shaking things up would be challenging, but much less de-humanizing than your current set-up. People make do with less all the time when it means getting away from being lied to and betrayed and treated like you're second best.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

In some places infidelity is a factor in the legal case for divorce and alimony. Also, having sex with him after finding out about his infidelity can be considered forgiveness by the court. Thus if one has sex after finding out about the infidelity it can destroy the legal use of infidelity in the divorce case.

This is something to discuss with the lawyer in your location.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

YES, contact an attorney! I wouldn't see how you are not entitled to half of his share of the business he started. Seeing as you were/are a SAHM and have been married 11 years, you have some leverage/negotiating power as far as child support for 2 children and alimony. You also have rights to half of what he is saving for retirement. As the breadwinner, he will also need to provide health insurance for his children.

D can take years, but seldom less than one year. I get you are financially stuck so you and your attorney will need to figure this thing out i.e. agree to settle for less if he funds a place and lifestyle for you and the kids now until you are done with school.

I would also insist on financial discovery sooner than later. You may also be 1/4 owner of the OW's car if he is on the title and therefore 1/4 of the value of it...just sayin' worth looking into. You should also be entitled to your share of the family money he spent on OW so keep ANY and ALL statements/receipts when he spends on her/them.

Even if you and your attorney file for a D now, it doesn't mean you will go through with it, if that makes sense? He can't kick you and your children out of the marital home.

Now (this is easier said than done) is the time that you need to STOP showing affection. You will be giving mixed signals. You will need to go about the D, settlement, and parenting plan in a business-type state of mind vs. the affectionate wife who still wants to save her M (at least at first to show him you are serious). 

I've never seen this advised here, but what about informing the OW that once you D your husband, she will be competing with your children for your H's time, money, and emotions. Assuming your H loves his children, ask him if parading around a bimbo in front of your children whose home you broke is a good idea? Ask if his idea of raising children involves only visiting with them? 

Sorry, I bounced around a lot here, but you've got a lot of things to consider here...sorry you are here


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## PamJ (Mar 22, 2013)

Thor as great advice- it costs nothing to talk to an attorney and see what you can do-you have too much to lose to stay in this situation as it is, and everything to gain by getting out of it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The only reason you feel stuck is because you're allowing yourself to be stuck.

You most certainly CAN get out of this situation. I left my first husband with a 4 year old, a 2 year old and a 4 month old. I had absolutely nothing but did it anyway. It's what welfare is FOR. And besides, who cares if he would leave?? That would be the BEST thing to have happen. I'd suggest kicking his sorry a$$ out, but if he leaves on his own that's even better. You should be PISSED RIGHT OFF at him. Not trying to win him back!!

All the good stuff you've been doing for yourself - you haven't really been doing it for yourself, have you? You've been doing it because you want to win him back. That's the wrong attitude, sorry. You need to change your way of thinking and improve yourself for YOU. NOT for him. He does NOT deserve you!

See an attorney and get your ducks in a row and get rid of this guy.


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## AnotherAnon (Jul 10, 2014)

It sounds like there are no kids in the situation? Or did I miss something?

If you were in the marriage while he built the business you are entitled to things. Not to walk away "rich", but to be given a chance to start your own life. 

I am trying to reconcile with my H for the kid's sake. However, if we did not have kids, here is what I would be having my lawyer ask for:

1) Enough monthly support to make ends meet in a small, but decent apartment and basic expenses until I finish school. Plus a 6-12 month post-school buffer of support while I found a job. 

2) Perhaps a share of the business, or a lump sum payout, depending on the circumstances. Basically, if he is just barely making it then that's all I'd ask for myself. But if he was going to get to live like a millionaire off a business I helped build (helped as in took care of everything else while he worked), then I feel I am entitled to part of that going forward.

But there is no reason for you to stay and take this. You know that. People still get HIV and it's not a fun thing to live with. And, you are eventually going to end up back on the dating scene. Do you want to have to disclose to potential dates that you have herpes? Think about it. He is going to get everything he wants in life. You can do that to if you get off the train now.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Don't sit on it and pretend not to know for years. That will destroy you inside and out. If you reallly still love him, and would like to try and work it out with him. The first thing you need to do is blow up his affair. How? Expose it. Affairs thrive in secrecy. He stand to lose alot via exposure. 

First, keep silent until you get some hard evidence and have hidden away whatever cash or valuables you can (to sell later for money as needed). What is the pattern for the hotel stays? Hire a PI to get some evidence. A few photos of them being touchy feely and walking into their no tell motel together ought to be enough.

The first person to expose to will be her husband. I would do this even before you confront you husband. Let him know, and give him copies of your evidence. 

Then confront your husband. He will have to change his business model, because he can't work with her anymore. If he refuses, then see how exposure to his clients goes? If he will lie and cheat on his own wife, should they be trusting him? 

In the end, that may all backfire. They may wind up both leaving the marriages and moving in together. If they are that stupid, you have done yourself a favor. But at least you will know you took a hardline stand and fought for your marriage.


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## Leafwhisper (Jul 11, 2014)

Wow, I am overwhelmed by all the great responses! Yes, I think Thor is right and I am in a crisis fog. I have so much to consider now. I am so glad I posted here. To go down the list...

Yes, we have two kids, 8 and 10.
I have no one to move in with and I really like Ohio and moving back east would not be good for a variety of reasons, plus the courts here rarely let you move out of state. 

I'm going for my teaching license and am already in an accelerated program. I work as a substitute teacher on my days off, and it pays more than any other part time job I could find.

I will definitely try to contact an attorney. You guys gave me a lot to consider on that front. Stbxh is a legal genius and has already said there is no way he'd give me a dime and if the court ordered it he would just shut his business down and work off the books. Every time I ask him to compromise about something he says that if I don't like it I should leave, but that I won't get anything. He feels that since he supported me for the past eleven years that I actually owe him money. He says he'll do shared parenting so that he doesn't have to pay child support. 

I haven't talked to her husband. I've thought about it, but he's not too bright and very temperamental, so I only want to play that card at the last moment. 

Stbxh has nothing in his name. He had a felony back in the late 90 s, so I'm not sure if it has to do with that. And before anyone gets on me, I was married for years and had two kids before I found out about the felony. He wrote a bad check, but it was fraud because he used a fake name. He is such an accomplished liar. I think he honestly believes his lies. 

I have kept an online secret journal for years, first for all the dumb things he'd do like almost setting the house on fire with cigarettes and lecturing me for not folding the towels the right way, and now to document my evidence. I also have hard copies of everything stored at a friends house. 

What kills me is that my first husband messed around, too. So now I am wondering do all guys cheat? Or is it me? I think I am a good wife. I am attractive, in shape, am very involved with my kids, intelligent, take care of my husbands every need without asking and show that I do these things not out of obligation but out of love and because I enjoy it. It makes me totally jaded toward all men. I have zero trust level with them now.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

My first husband cheated on me too. It has NOTHING to do with us and everything to do with THEM.

No, not all guys cheat. But it really is impossible to predict whether someone will or not. My current husband hid a sex addiction for over a decade from me. NO ONE who knows him would ever in a zillion years figure him for a cheater. 

DO NOT start going down the path of wondering what is wrong with you. It leads to nowhere except a downward spiral that's really hard to get out of.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Get a Voice Activated Recorder. A member here named Weightlifter has posts about what to look for. He strongly recommends the Sony brand. They cost about $50 or $60.

Ohio is a "one-party consent" state, meaning you can record a conversation as long as one person is aware and consents. You can record conversations with your husband legally, and the recordings can be used in court.

If you can get your husband on the recordings talking about how he would deny you money by shutting down his business or by using various tactics, it would go a long way in getting the court to nail him hard.

A good forensic accountant can track down money and figure out how your husband is hiding his wealth. Your lawyer likely has dealt with business owners before who try to hide money and play games to keep the valuation of a business very low. There's a good chance your husband is illegally using business money for personal use without properly declaring it as income for taxes. This is the kind of thing a good accountant and attorney would look for. It gives you leverage in getting a good settlement.


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## Leafwhisper (Jul 11, 2014)

I actually worked for a private investigator back in my twenties and so I am particularly good at tracing things and finding hidden stuff. He knows this which is why it baffles me that he doesn't hide things better. I have photocopies of all of his business and personal checking account statements, showing the hundreds he spends each month at the casino. I have all of the hotel receipts, their emails, text messages, and now have his hotel frequent stay number, so I can tell when he makes his next reservation. Not sure what I'll do with that info, though. Part of me wants to just try to move past investigating, and another part just has to know.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't assume anything about the sexual history of her or her husband or at this point of your husband. STDs are a possibility. 

And, no, all men don't cheat although when you are married to a cheater it's tempting to think so. There are lots of good, faithful men out there.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

He's probably no more a legal genius than I am. Contact a real legal genius and get their opinions. 

I too was at the top of my class in an accelerated program and my kids were young. I knew I could not hold on like that and live with my husband. 

My grandmother was a strong woman and she kicked her cheating husband out and raised her three kids back in the 40's when there was no alimony or child support. She got a low paying job and lived on peanuts but she was frugal and thrifty and my dad and his sisters say they had the best childhood imaginable.

I had her inspiration and ended my marriage. I had to leave my school program, was in a bad accident, had to go from full-time to part time for a while......I was a sad country song. 

I only felt bad for my kids but I slowly got better, went back to work, found a great condominium. I received some money from my husband in one lump sum and made it work for me. 

My kids are both teenagers, are both in honors programs at school and seem to be well adjusted. 

I have not gone back to school or dated but spend all my time being a mom. 

I am much happier without my husband. I have my self worth back to center and that makes my life better. 

I was very very worried about all the things of convience I would be without but I'm doing ok. I have a nice (smaller) home, car, internet. 

We don't eat out (maybe a birthday) and no cable but I don't miss either one. I'm free.

Talk to a few lawers. I see no need to investigate further unless legally necessary. He is openly cheating on you and doesn't care that you know.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

And I'm not saying do what I did. If you can stay in school, do so. My life was more complicated once I had my accident and couldn't walk. 

Take support wherever you can get it.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

If your H is a liar and a cheat, ask your lawyer to refer you to a good tax accountant also to go over the joint returns and request tax transcripts from the IRS. Seeing as he writes bad checks and visits casinos often, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a tax problem that you as the innocent spouse are not aware of.

His threats of mocking your financial situation when he tells you to leave if you don't like it there is mental cruelty. Him telling you he will give you nothing is intimidation and designed to bully you. His threatening to close his business is silly! How will he live or get another job with a felony record? 

You have been the children's primary care giver all these years and it's unlikely he will get 50/50 custody (ask your lawyer). Does he work long hours? How could that custody arrangement (50/50) even work if he does? On another note, he will need to pay (ask your lawyer) half of day care and extracurricular activities...is he that much a jag that he would rather lose his income to harm you and his kids?

I would try to record using a VAR statements re: closing his business, hiding wealth, and giving you nothing. It's also possible (again, ask your lawyer) that he will need to pay some % of your legal fees given the income disparity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Leafwhisper (Jul 11, 2014)

Actually he really is a legal genius. Every time a past creditor sues him he counters sues them, going pro se, and manipulates the case to where they end up settling with him and giving him money. He's done cease for friends and family, mostly creditors but also divorces, and he's never lost a case. His iQ is off the charts high. I think he might be Aspergers. Our son is and it tends to run in families. He'll do our divorce pro se and will hit my attorney with motion after motion so the bill runs up. 

He has been self employed since his conviction. He says it is because that is the right way to live and that he won't be slave to some liberal company. He constantly touts Objectivist philosophy and how I am a fool for wanting to be a teacher because then I will just be adding to the country's problems. He is a really smooth talker and can be very convincing. 

He thinks the court won't care that he works long hours and will put the kids in child care, that that's normal. He watches them now for two nights a week while I am at school and all he does is play with them for a little bit then goes to sleep. I know this because my younger son texts me while I am in class complaining that dad is ignoring him, either on the phone or sleeping. My mother, who is an attorney in another state, says that I need to collect evidence of his moral character and that will help my case.

I'm not perfect. Over the course of our marriage I have struggled with loneliness and my identity as a wife and mom. I have no family here and his tends to exclude me. He says that it is because I am no fun and they just don't like me. They actually did hang out with me until I quit smoking and drinking. Apparently you are not fun unless you do those things. I am just so tired of him saying that everything is my fault. He blames me for everything negative in his life, and his explanation of all of my faults is not necessarily off base, but I still can't see how that justifies cheating. 

And yes, you guys have got me concerned now with std's. I'm going to make an appointment with my gyno this week and start making excuses not to service him. Since he's messing around with her it shouldn't bother him too much.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Two things in your favor I can see:

1) The woman most often fares better with custody. You're at SAHM and I wager that carries weight. 

2) Those txt messages from your son when he neglects them.

Institutionalized daycare when you would be available to watch them potentially?...I'd argue that point!

Have your lawyer ask his views of how you bettering yourself is bringing our country down (he's belittling you) under oath. Get his response prior on a VAR. What I'm saying is no smooth-talker can explain contempt of court if you have proof. Plus, he has a known history of a criminal record for being dishonest.

His family is toxic and you're better without. Cheaters assign blame to their spouse to justify their behavior. Curious, is adultery a crime in your state? One more untrustworthy act that can be proved with evidence and deposing his AP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I also suggest annoymously informing her husband of the affair.

Ask your attorney, but I believe your husband will be paying your lawyer bills too. So much for his multiple motion plan.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Line up all your moves with your lawyers advice

Demand him paying for your school tuition as part of your D settlement.

Go for full custody (with his F conviction) and all his other shakey dealing that should be a lock

He may be smart but someone like your POS husband is going to outsmart himself here.

With children involved he's not arguing the same financial issues that he has been successful in the past.

Move fast and move on.

He's a scumbag

55


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op, 

Pick up; 

Divorce Think Financially, Not Emotionally
Jeffrey A. Landers, CDFA

Great web site too... 

He write what women need to know about securing their financial future before, during, and after a divorce. 

Has even personally answered emails. 

~sammy


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