# Looking for advice...



## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

So, my first post here after lurking for a bit. I am in need of advice on how to improve/repair our marriage. Sorry for the long post but feel background is needed. We have been married 18 years. It has been, like most marriages, full of ups and downs. I'm at my wits end on how currently to fix our marriage. Where to start???
About me....caring, sensitive, stubborn and like things planned and organized, too sensitive/ easily hurt. 
My wife....sweet, excellent with $, good cook, to much emphasis on money, lacks empathy, and poor communication....also stubborn. She had an awkward family life as a child. 

We both used to work FT jobs. I was the main breadwinner, not that it matters at all. I became disabled 3 years ago and went through the 2 year ordeal of getting Social Security Disability which I was approved of one year ago. It has been extremely difficult for me as I was a guy in constant motion. Loved my work and playing with my son and doing stuff on my days off. That all came to an abrupt end. One of the reasons I am on Disability is Major depression. This is were the problem in out marriage currently lies. I used to work 50+ hours a week, do dinners most nights, take care of our son, and do laundry and most cleaning. I did all this mainly because I would rather do it then argue with her over it. It is admittedly my fault for allowing this to go on for so many year. It made me resentful and also, I believe started my depression issues. I must say now I truly love my wife, when things are good they are great but when they are bad it is BAD. When we were first married there were issues and warning signs. She would scream and yell at me for the littlest things. I usually just let her go and avoid confrontation. Her most popular go to was the cold shoulder, going weeks at a time with no recognition of each other. As time has gone on the yelling is all but gone, to her credit. The cold shoulder unfortunately still remains. If I try to talk to her she just gets more and more upset so I have just learned to live with it. 

So anyway, now that I am on disability I really need her help around the house and support emotionally. I do as much as I can around the house but I am limited, I usually tend to feel bad and do more than I should and pay the price physically. If I ask her for more effort around the house I just get guilt tripped because she works 40 hours a week. Something I am constantly reminded of, and I do tell her I appreciate her doing it. She feels that's enough though. I don't and if roles were reversed I would do anything! Emotionally I am a wreck. I feel so, so alone. She has, i feel, no empathy. She has a short fuse and throws around name calling and insults when she feels threatened. That's what precipitated this post. After a day of arguing and me trying to ask for more help/support she got upset and stormed off and said "You're not normal". FYI, one of the worst phrases you could say to someone with Major Depression! I don't want to give up as she HAS improved on her screaming tantrums/anger issues after much work. I hope this can be too. Of course, I could be wrong because I'm to close to see and she is just a narcissist. 
Anyway, thanks for reading. It was therapeutic just to write this out and get it off my chest. If you have advice I would love to hear it. If you have questions feel free to ask 

Thank you again! 

P.S. We already tried therapy years ago. She wasn't very happy about doing it and I don't know if I could drag her to it again. 



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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

How severe or limiting is your disability? For example, does it prevent you from being able to reach up into cupboards or from being able to carry laundry to your dressers? What chores do you need your wife to help with? Do you have young children in the home? Could hire someone to come in once or twice a week and help with what you're physically unable to do? Trying to get a better picture of the problem.


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## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> How severe or limiting is your disability? For example, does it prevent you from being able to reach up into cupboards or from being able to carry laundry to your dressers? What chores do you need your wife to help with? Do you have young children in the home? Could hire someone to come in once or twice a week and help with what you're physically unable to do? Trying to get a better picture of the problem.




It really varies from day to day. On most days I can do a bit of kitchen cleaning and a quick dinner. The main reason for my disability is P.O.T.S or Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome. Some days dizziness is worse, some/most days leg pain, some days migraines, some days all the above and more. Rare days minor annoyances. 
My son is 17. He is helpful, especially for a 17 year old boy. Luckily he is on summer break so I can rely on him some. In all honestly, I have a hard time asking for help too. I feel less of a man when I do and that is difficult for me. As for hiring someone it is just not in the budget. Hope this helps. 




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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I know asking for help sucks, but if you need to help you have to ask. If you don't, the messes pile up and become overwhelming. Not to mention keeping the house up keeps the peace. 

All you can do is your best. Once you reach your physical limit, stop, drop it, and resume when you're feeling better even if it's the next day. Anything that absolutely needs to be done, ask your boy for help. Don't argue about it with your wife. She has eyes. She can see what needs doing. She'll either help or not.

As to emotional support, she doesn't sound very warm. Maybe she is just naturally reserved? Whatever the case, if she won't go to counseling and you can't get through to her, get emotional support from friends and family. Maybe even a companion animal, if you could find one that you like and would be able to care for.


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## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> I know asking for help sucks, but if you need to help you have to ask. If you don't, the messes pile up and become overwhelming. Not to mention keeping the house up keeps the peace.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have slowly learned to take it easier and not exceed my limits. I still don't know when to stop sometimes, fortunately those times are much fewer.
I guess the more I think about it it is emotional and moral support (love) I expect and don't receive. She not only seems oblivious most times to my condition but also has used it against me. I have just always hoped that when I truly needed the support and compassion it would be there. I'm coming to the realization that may not be the case. I believe that is the most important role of a spouse. That whole " Love,honor and cherish in Sickness and in health" thing! I just don't know if I can expect that of her and if not, what kind of marriage is this? Some care and compassion would mean the world to me from her.

My only close family is my mom and she is moving quite far away in a month. That is adding to my depression and why I need more from my wife. I do have a Dachshund puppy. It's fair to say my son and the puppy have made me laugh and given me much love. Still...not the same as from a spouse. 

Thank you again for your reply. Thinking about it and typing has been more therapeutic than I could have known. 


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you explained to her that doing XYZ would make you feel loved and cared for? Some people are emotionally clueless and need a map drawn up for them.


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## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> Have you explained to her that doing XYZ would make you feel loved and cared for? Some people are emotionally clueless and need a map drawn up for them.




Kind of?!? Lol. I try telling her what I need but then it gets taken as a personal attack/complaint or I hear "well you don't do 'xyz' for me". It always turns into a game of whataboutism and I don't like that game. Then again, maybe I am asking in the wrong way or wrong time? Truth is I used to be much more loving towards her as well. However, the arguing, cold shoulder, lack of help at home and lack of reciprocation of affection has turned me cold towards her as well. It is something I acknowledged to her tonight and I know that would come back if I felt love in return. Like I said earlier, I feel as though she thinks she works 40 hours a week so that fills her family quota. To me work and family are separate. I only worked for MONEY for me to give my family. Love and caring didn't come from work. 


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

This marriage may not work out. If that is the case, are you financially/mentally/emotionally prepared for that? If not, what would be needed for you to get there?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yours', sounds like a severe case. The causes are many, hence the term syndrome is used.

This is a bonafide disabling disorder.

Typical symptoms are:

dizziness
fainting
headaches
sweating
nausea
poor concentration and memory
purple hands and feet

Symptoms typically begin when going from prone [laying down], from sitting to standing.

Can your case get better?
There is no "cure", however, heart medications, diet and life style changes do help:


"With proper lifestyle adjustments, exercise, diet and medical treatments, many patients see an improvement in their quality of life.1 If an underlying cause can be identified, and if that cause is treatable, the POTS symptoms may subside. While the prognosis is good for most patients, researchers have noted that some patients will not improve and may actually worsen over time.

The longest follow-up study done to date comes from Mayo Clinic.20 Mayo Clinic did a survey of their pediatric POTS patients seen between 2003 and 2010. Of those who responded to the survey, 18.2% reported a complete resolution of their POTS symptoms, while 52.8% reported persistent but improved symptoms. Male patients were twice as likely to report recovery. The average survey respondent had been diagnosed for about 5 years. Both patients who fully recovered and those who did not had mental health scores similar to the national norm." -Dysautonomia International.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

As far as advice?

Let things get messy. Do not badger your wife. Especially, when she just gets home after a days work.

She is not helping? Oh, well. Nothing new here.

Make her life as easy and pleasant as you can..........and HOPE she does the same. 

If you keep badgering her, she will pull away more.............or she will leave you. Good luck finding another partner to replace her, in your condition. 

Not much of a choice, Eh?

Some people get more entrenched, intransigent, UN-cooperative the more you push them. She sounds like one of those people. Do not let her resent you, resent her life with you.

You can win over a curmudgeon easier with a smile than a growl.

Do as much as you can around the house. Do housework in 1/2 hour increments, then rest. Exercise is good for you.

Do you wear a football helmet to protect your head against falls? I hope you do not need it!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Start by doing some research on how to deal with passive aggressive people. There's a ton of information out there. What you're missing are boundaries and consequences. And your son needs to see you showing some strength, so he'll know how to do so, too.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I know asking for help sucks, but if you need to help you have to ask. If you don't, the messes pile up and become overwhelming. Not to mention keeping the house up keeps the peace.
> 
> All you can do is your best. Once you reach your physical limit, stop, drop it, and resume when you're feeling better even if it's the next day. Anything that absolutely needs to be done, ask your boy for help. Don't argue about it with your wife. She has eyes. She can see what needs doing. She'll either help or not.
> 
> As to emotional support, *she doesn't sound very warm.* Maybe she is just naturally reserved? Whatever the case, if she won't go to counseling and you can't get through to her, get emotional support from friends and family. Maybe even a companion animal, if you could find one that you like and would be able to care for.


No, she is not very warm.

She is just biding time. I suspect she hates where her life is at this point.

Swede just needs to cool it and be pleasant....as hard as that is. If he cannot be pleasant [in pain] he needs to fade into the background, not making the other family members miserable.

I am not making excuses for his wife, she is not kind or helpful. But if he nags at her or is unfriendly to her 'continuously', she may leave him to fend for himself when their son goes off to college or his own place after getting a job.

We can tell him to take a hard line with this ice cube, but what will the results be?

Hey Swede, can you take care of yourself, if need be? Do you have the resources? Would disability take care of your basic needs? I suspect not. That is why I want him to play nice to his wife.
She may soften. If not, at least he knows she is a lost cause.

She can support herself. She can get another man [if she wants]. She sounds miserable and stuck. Not much empathy in her. 

It is ...what it is.

He is at her mercy, until he isn't.....when/if he chooses NOT to be. He too, is a prisoner. But at least he has a roof over his head, clothing and food to eat. He must be practical while he is disabled.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

SwedeMan said:


> Kind of?!? Lol. I try telling her what I need but then it gets taken as a personal attack/complaint or I hear "well you don't do 'xyz' for me". It always turns into a game of whataboutism and I don't like that game. Then again, maybe I am asking in the wrong way or wrong time? Truth is I used to be much more loving towards her as well. However, the arguing, cold shoulder, lack of help at home and lack of reciprocation of affection has turned me cold towards her as well. It is something I acknowledged to her tonight and I know that would come back if I felt love in return. Like I said earlier, I feel as though she thinks she works 40 hours a week so that fills her family quota. To me work and family are separate. I only worked for MONEY for me to give my family. Love and caring didn't come from work.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Phrasing and timing matter. I am not familiar with what's available, but I'm sure there must be tons of books and articles online about improving communication. If you could phrase it in a way that doesn't make her defensive, there might be a chance you could get through to her.


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## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> As far as advice?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting all the POTS info. I already know how crappy it is unfortunately but it gives others information.
I think I will take your advice and just let things get messy. It will be tough for me as I despise clutter. I will just consider it a new learning experience. LOL
As for her, I don't badger her now and I make things easy for her. Dinner is almost always ready for her when she gets home then she goes in her room to watch her shows and relax. I have just gotten to a tipping point, mainly out of fear. Let me explain. Her mother and father are still married and have never been "loving" to each other. They actually live 60 miles away from each other just because he wanted to be IN LA. He got cancer and still they are apart. She will come over and clean every couple weeks but that's about it. I see that and the thought of that is terrifying. I couldn't imagine spouses behaving that way until I have seen it. I haven't told her this because she would take it as an attack on her parents...which I guess it is. I guess i will continue on and hope things improve. 
As for the helmet, luckily I don't need it. I have only had one very near fainting experience and I was near a chair. I do get dizzy frequently but fortunately not fainting. I feel for those that have to endure that too. 

Thank you again for the excellent info and advice, I truly appreciate your time. 


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## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

turnera said:


> Start by doing some research on how to deal with passive aggressive people. There's a ton of information out there. What you're missing are boundaries and consequences. And your son needs to see you showing some strength, so he'll know how to do so, too.




I know she is Passive aggressive and I was much more assertive but then things would blow up into bigger, longer fights. I have balanced on a knifes edge for years between assertive and giving. The main consequence that can be used is divorce and my son and I are much to close. I decided years ago I would never leave him alone with her and as we all know courts aren't easy for dads. Luckily, he and I can talk openly and he knows what is going on. I just hope he listens and remembers when he decides to get married to not make the same mistakes I did. 


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

SwedeMan said:


> I know she is Passive aggressive and I was much more assertive but then things would blow up into bigger, longer fights. I have balanced on a knifes edge for years between assertive and giving. The main consequence that can be used is divorce and my son and I are much to close. I decided years ago I would never leave him alone with her and as we all know courts aren't easy for dads. Luckily, he and I can talk openly and he knows what is going on. I just hope he listens and remembers when he decides to get married to not make the same mistakes I did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


The fits of rage, the cold shoulder, I know them both well. They are the things both me and my son despise about my wife. My son has said many time that last thing he wants is a wife like his mother. I have stayed in the marriage because just as you have said, I don't want the kids to have to be stuck with her on a long term basis.


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## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> No, she is not very warm.
> 
> She is just biding time. I suspect she hates where her life is at this point.
> 
> ...




I agree with this to a point. She isn't biding her time I don't think. I believe she is just doing what she saw growing up. She is not, nor ever was, very loving to her only son. She does however hate where her life is....and big BUT here...she always has. According to her brother even before marriage and kid. I worked many years, made quite good money and took care of damn near everything. She was still miserable. I believe she is just a very pessimistic person and always has been. That and her family is not very loving as I've said before. This was a huge shock to me as I come from a very loving family. 
Also, I don't believe I nag or complain. I have had this discussion with her a handful of times since I have become disabled (3 years). I generally don't want to rock the boat as it's easier for my son and I if she is content. Divorce has always been out in my mind as A) I am the child of divorce and B) I promised myself I would not let my son live alone with her. As I said in an earlier reply, courts aren't favorable to custody for Fathers. I wasn't even about to take that gamble. 

I do tend to agree with most of your advice though. I think I will just suck it up and deal with it as much as I can. Be there for her and treat her as if she was the caring wife I want/need. After all I do still love her, I just KNOW thing could be so much better. So, when possible I will carefully have discussions to try to improve things. Luckily I do have a son that understands and is better than I could have hoped. So I guess I can consider it balanced out. 


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## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

jb02157 said:


> The fits of rage, the cold shoulder, I know them both well. They are the things both me and my son despise about my wife. My son has said many time that last thing he wants is a wife like his mother. I have stayed in the marriage because just as you have said, I don't want the kids to have to be stuck with her on a long term basis.




My son says the same as yours. I truly wish you the best because it does take a physical and mental toll to be the go between/protector. It really is a sad state of affairs when fathers and kids are basically held prisoner. I made more money and could have provided a better home for my son if I were to divorce and get custody years ago. The problem is the chances of getting custody aren't in the mans favor and it was a gamble I couldn't take. 
Again, all the best to you, you are not alone. Also, I believe you are doing the right thing by staying and trying to make the best of a bad situation for your kids. 


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It doesn't have to be a 'main' consequence. For instance, if you expect her to help with housework, you explain to her that you're working to your limit and you require her to pitch in, since it's her house, too. If she refuses, just say 'ok, then I'll have to select what I can get done and what I can't. I'll probably start with your laundry, since that doesn't affect me, and I have to reduce _some_where.'

And then just stop doing her laundry. It if piles up, it piles up. No skin off your nose. And when she tries to blast you for it, just shrug and say "We talked about this and I explained to you my limitations. If you want more done, you can either help with the chores or hire someone to do it. Your choice." And walk away. 

Do NOT get into an argument about it. "I'm sorry you feel that way." Get used to saying it. 

She has to start seeing you as a full man again, and part of that is NOT running around behind her waiting on her simply because she has a job and you don't.

My second suggestion is to start spending more time on a hobby, so that she sees you enjoying life with or without her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SwedeMan said:


> My son says the same as yours. I truly wish you the best because it does take a physical and mental toll to be the go between/protector. It really is a sad state of affairs when fathers and kids are basically held prisoner. I made more money and could have provided a better home for my son if I were to divorce and get custody years ago. The problem is the chances of getting custody aren't in the mans favor and it was a gamble I couldn't take.
> Again, all the best to you, you are not alone. Also, I believe you are doing the right thing by staying and trying to make the best of a bad situation for your kids.


If your son is 17, he can likely decide with whom he wants to live. And if he is expected to spend any time with her, he's now old enough to get in his car and drive back to you.

Frankly, I'd like to see you considering living apart if for no other reason than to let your son see you leaving a bad situation. That way, he will know HE can leave a bad situation, too.


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## SwedeMan (Jun 27, 2017)

turnera said:


> It doesn't have to be a 'main' consequence. For instance, if you expect her to help with housework, you explain to her that you're working to your limit and you require her to pitch in, since it's her house, too. If she refuses, just say 'ok, then I'll have to select what I can get done and what I can't. I'll probably start with your laundry, since that doesn't affect me, and I have to reduce _some_where.'
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have tried this before years ago and got blasted and called selfish. I think you are right though and I need to just learn to say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and move on and not be affected by being called selfish. I am sensitive and she knows this and uses it to her advantage I feel. I do think maybe I do need to be a little more selfish though regarding housework. Basically, do what I can and they can do the rest. 
Other than that I will be the good, caring, affectionate husband that I want to be. Hopefully she adjusts and reciprocates it....doubtful but all I can do is be as good of a man as I can. 

I do agree on the hobby as well. I used to be able to golf every week and it made her nuts that I was out having fun without her. A concept I find very odd. Lol. 

Thank you for all the great advice. This thread and you all have made me feel considerably better and given me a much needed boost in confidence.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

turnera said:


> If your son is 17, he can likely decide with whom he wants to live. And if he is expected to spend any time with her, he's now old enough to get in his car and drive back to you.
> 
> *Frankly, I'd like to see you considering living apart if for no other reason than to let your son see you leaving a bad situation.* That way, he will know HE can leave a bad situation, too.


I would too. 

I would like to see hm move out and care for himself.

Easier said than done. He does not have the monetary resources, friends or relatives, or health to pull it off. 

Life is hard for the healthy.

Life is darn near impossible for the disabled.

He could move into a state sponsored group home.....or he could stay at home, living as he does.

Society is especially hard on those that have "issues", mental or physical.

He needs to look carefully at his skills and try to find something to bring in some money.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SunCMars said:


> I would too.
> 
> I would like to see hm move out and care for himself.
> 
> ...


Whatever they've accumulated is half his.


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