# 7 years & no marriage proposal. I'm getting tired & losing hope. :(



## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Hi everyone – New to the forum here and am feeling somewhat lost and confused, amongst other feelings. I have been with my live in boyfriend for 7 years now. I am at the point where I want to be married or at the least engaged. When we started dating he was recently divorced. He did date a few girls prior to me. I have one older daughter and he has two younger daughters. Things with us happened very quickly. The love was very intense and very fast. I fell in love with him and his daughters. He moved in and we’ve been a blended family for years. I am very close with his sisters/family and his children. He’s known that being married to me is very important. I’ve told him that from day one. Well, in December I told him that it was about time. I am ready for an engagement ring and that’s all I want for Christmas. He then asked “what kind of ring would you like?”. Guess what? December came and I got nothing. Then in December he said that he needed until March because he was getting a big bonus check from work and could afford it then. I believed him. Then in May when our lease was up, I told him that we had to be out by June/July and I didn’t feel comfortable taking the next step into a big home without a formal commitment. He told me to not worry, that it’ll happen by then. I believed him. A month ago I told him that I was sad that I’m nowhere that I thought I’d be in my life by the age of 41 and he said not to worry, that I’ll be engaged by 41 and married by 42. I believed him. Then we moved into this home and I told him that I was really excited about taking this step but that I was concerned and having a bit of anxiety because I was moving in without the commitment that he promised me. He said don’t worry, I’m going to stick to my word. I believed him. Well guess what? It was my birthday this past weekend and I turned 41 and nothing. When I brought it up he now says that it’s his timing and to let him do it the right way. That there has to be family/friends present so now he’s added that. He said that he’s had a ring for months. Just waiting on the right time. 

I have brought up the topic of marriage a few times. At first he has been somewhat understanding but now it’s gotten to the point that he’s mean when I bring it up. I told him the other day that I’m tired of living my life like this and that I feel like he’s giving me false promises. To please not waste my life anymore if he is not going to do it. I told him that I don’t want to be a pretend wife and roommate with benefits. That I’ve done everything that I should do and more with loving him and his daughters and mine and being a good provider, team player and care taker. I cook, I clean and I take care and love his daughters like my own. I told him that his ex wife is settled down and re-married and I feel that our daughters should see us doing the right thing. He got upset so I got upset back and said that I’m truly sick of it and I’m not happy that I’ve bended the rules and have decided to move in with him thinking that he was going to stick to his word. He told me if I was not happy doing all that I do anymore that I could go. That was his response vs. saying I promise it’ll be worth it or please be patient with me as I don’t have the money right now. He goes straight on the defense and gets very angry. He says that it’s his life. Well, it’s MY life as well and I’m truly tired of waiting.

I don’t know if he’s just afraid of being hurt because his ex wife cheated on him and left him for someone else or because he just isn’t ready or because he can’t afford it. I really don’t understand it. I keep thinking if he really loved me he would not string me along. 

I am the one with the good credit in this relationship. He has filed bankruptcy and has credit issues because of past marriage. He has a good paying job but is sometimes strapped because of child support. He does help provide though. I am the one that provided all of the furniture, drives a new car and have tried to help him get re-established in life. I have supported him through all of his ups and downs.

I am not trusting him anymore and I’m honestly starting to resent him. He gets his daughters every other weekend and I don’t even want them around anymore because I’m tired of not having my needs met and playing pretend wife/step mom. He gets mad that I am not “happy and positive” and how can I be? I’m starting to feel insecure. I do everything to make him happy. I have done more than his ex wife ever did. Even his family tells me that. I’m a good woman. I am attractive, have a good job and am financially stable. I just don’t understand what the problem is. I feel used and taken for granted. Like what I need to make me happy is not important to me.

When we argue about this he threatens me and says “why would I want to marry that?” when don’t I have a right to voice my feelings that I’m upset that he hasn’t kept his word and I’m feeling insecure? He tells me that when I bring it up and argue with him that I’m taking him back to square one. So unless I’m perfect and keep my mouth shut I won’t get a proposal? It’s a tactic to keep me quiet. It’s not working though as I will not stay quiet.

As you can see I’m really upset. I’m so torn. We signed this lease together and I sort of felt it was a mistake. Where we have lived before the lease was always in my name. Now it’s in both of ours. I’m feeling stubborn in that IF I decide to leave him, I’m not going to move. I want for him to move as I’m not going to have “set him up” so he could have a nice home for him and his daughters while I go and move and grieve and he’s doing whatever he wants. I just can’t do that. I found this home and I have everything there and all of the utilities are in my name. I know I’m jumping the gun here with that but I’m feeling strongly should I have to leave this is how it should go down.

So I just don’t know what to do. I don’t know if he’s defensive because I don’t trust that he’ll do it or if I just need to move on. I’m really sad if I have to move as I have invested 7 years of my life and I love his daughters like my own as well as my daughter loves them. We’re a family in a sense and it would hurt to see the kids hurt. It’s like getting divorced without ever being married.

I know what I want in life. I know that I want him as my husband but my dignity, self respect and esteem are starting to fade and I’m starting to feel depressed. Has anyone here face a situation like mine and come out with a positive outcome after waiting for so long? I just don’t have it in me anymore to be patient and wait and it breaks my heart to know that we may have to break up. I cried the entire way to work today. Just feeling torn and heartbroken. Is there any hope?

Thank you all for your support and advice!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

He doesn't want to get married but doesn't have the stones to tell you. Period. So you have too choices: accept what you have or leave. 

He must have a huge ego boost thinking you're so desperate to marry him that he can use it as a weapon. 


Personally I'd leave, but that's me. But if you're bent on staying tell him you've changed your mind about marrying him and no longer think he's good enough for that. Then live your life accordingly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

You let him string you along with promises that he never kept. It's time to stop doing that.

Start planning to leave. And tell him so right now - "when the lease is up, you're moving out because this is going nowhere and I'm done."


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Well you lost your leverage w not signing the lease. Any other penalties you can impose on him to force his hand.(no pun)?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I don't think he's planning on marrying you. You have 7 years of track record to go on. That's about 6 more years than most people who want marriage will give a relationship. You are correct in that you should not demonstrate this type of relationship to your daughter. You are correct that you should not have co-signed a lease with him. You are correct that you should not have moved in within without the commitment you wanted in a relationship.

Stop taking the actions that are inconsistent with your goals in life. Don't expect a man to conform to what you want. Look at dating as a means to evaluate whether the man is the right fit for you.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

You should feel used. Because you are. You job is to get him on his feet, help raise his children, get "wife" privileges and he get it all with no commitment. When he is ready to get married, it will not be with you. Sorry to say.

This is all your fault, you let him feed you a string of promises and gave him no consequences for his inaction. 

If I were you, I would have a talk with the landlord. Break the lease and put it just your name. Then, give him walking papers. 

Start making plans to live your life. Good luck. You know what you have to do. Waiting around is not going get you anywhere.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

norajane said:


> You let him string you along with promises that he never kept. It's time to stop doing that.
> 
> Start planning to leave. And tell him so right now - "when the lease is up, you're moving out because this is going nowhere and I'm done."


This. If marriage is your goal, it is best not to give someone all the benefits of marriage without being husband and wife. Your boyfriend is comfortable because he has you playing the wife role without being married. 

He doesn't want to marry you. A ring doesn't have to be expensive if a couple wants to be married. There are also alternatives to diamonds that are much more reasonably priced, so your boyfriend is just making excuses and stalling.

Leave your boyfriend. Maybe seeing that you will move on without him will jolt him into reality. My husband had some commitment problems due to his personal issues. When I stopped caring and dumped him for being immature, that is when my husband realized that he had to make a choice if he wanted to have me in his life.

My heart goes out to you because I know you love this man. It is a tough spot to be in. Feel free to PM me if you need to vent. I know how you feel.


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Thank you all!! So happy to have gotten quick responses. I tried to talk to him about my concerns. I told him that I'm feeling anxious and depressed and that I'm hurt because I feel strung along. He went straight into anger mode. Said "right I just spent every dime I had on you this weekend and it was all a big waste". I told him that spending money on me has nothing to do with it. That I'm feeling insecure and like I'm not good enough. That it's hard for me to have faith and trust because of all of his broken promises and
I don't think I can take this anymore. He told me that I really know how to ruin things with my negativity and crying. That a proposal is supposed to be worked up to and joyous. Then he said what is a ring going to change? He also said I shouldn't cry and is mad about that. That I'm so negative. I told him I'm telling him this so he understands why my moods are so up and down. That he shouldn't get mad that I'm crying. At least I'm being honest with him. That if he's not going to do it tell me now and I'll be done with it all. He was mean and said some other things. That I'm attacking him for being untrustworthy and using me. That I keep telling him what he's not. That's not what I was doing. Just wanting to have a conversation about how I feel. He's always had problems with that. Communication is not his thing. He goes on the defense always and thinks he's being attacked. He hates talking so when I'm having an issue with something he walks away leaving it unsolved to be brought back up again. I should have known. He told me again that "I'll do it when I'm ready". At first it was timelines now I'll do it when I'm ready and I really know how to ruin a surprise. How can I trust him? I left it with I don't know what I want to do with this anymore and he left to pickup his daughters whom I'm not in the mood to see. Do you see why I feel the way I do? He told me again to just be quiet about it all. What kind of crap is that? I feel dumb. So very dumb. 

Scared as well that I'll never marry at this point. I feel like I'm going to have to see a therapist for a while before I can date again and I'm no spring chicken anymore.

I am just lost. Did I ruin a surprise? I gave him an out. Told him that I would respect his real thoughts on it and walk away. Nothing. So I don't know.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Girl, you going to have to take some action. Not talking and discussing it with him because you know that is not going to work. He will just blame you for asking too much or making demands or not giving him time or whatever else he thinks up.

Take action. NO more talking.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

OP, google "Renters, Buyers, and Freeloaders". Your husband is at best a renter and more likely a freeloader. You're looking for a buyer. Your guy isn't a buyer, at least not at this point. 

You're past the time for talk. At this point, it's just white noise. He knows how you feel. He isn't taking care of you and he isn't acting to remove your hurt over this. He is clearly willing to allow you to continue to feel badly, to hurt over this situation.

I agree with you that you two are teaching your daughters something. It might be time for you to re-do the teacher plan book and update the lesson.

I'm so sorry you're in this position. My SIL has been with her boyfriend for 20 years. She wants to get married but he doesn't ever want to get married. For her, it's been worth it to stay and she is willing to give up her dream of being married. Your situation could go on and on if you allow it.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

No, you didn't ruin any surprise proposal. That's just him trying to string you along a bit longer, by making it seems as though it's your fault he isn't proposing. Bullsh*t. He's had 7 years to surprise you. It's not gonna happen,

Ask him if he'd be crying and negative and upset if you had strung him along for 7 years without sex. 

Bottom line - re-read what you've written in this thread and ask yourself WHY you want to marry this guy. He does not sound like a prize worth having. You're better off on your own, though you likely won't stay that way once you are free of him and can regain some of that self-esteem you've lost while with him.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your story sounds reeallllly familiar, are you sure you have never posted here, under a different user name maybe? 

He doesn't want to be married. He does have that prerogative, but it isn't fair to string you along. Im sure he doesn't want to lose you, that's why he makes those promises he doesn't follow through on. So you either need to suck it up and be happy with what you have, or cut your losses and end it if marriage is really what you want. 

Why is being married so important to you? Because it sounds like you guys have a pretty good life together otherwise.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

If he wanted to marry you he would have somewhere between 6 and 4 years ago. So he doesn't.

What I recommend you do is propose to him. He has to say yes or no, right? It's 2015, right? And you're the one that wants a change to your current arrangement, not him.

So propose, with a wedding date say 6 months out as part of the proposal, and see what he says.

And be prepared to take no for an answer.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

waiting_forever said:


> Thank you all!! So happy to have gotten quick responses. I tried to talk to him about my concerns. I told him that I'm feeling anxious and depressed and that I'm hurt because I feel strung along. He went straight into anger mode. Said "right I just spent every dime I had on you this weekend and it was all a big waste". I told him that spending money on me has nothing to do with it. That I'm feeling insecure and like I'm not good enough. That it's hard for me to have faith and trust because of all of his broken promises and
> I don't think I can take this anymore. He told me that I really know how to ruin things with my negativity and crying. That a proposal is supposed to be worked up to and joyous. Then he said what is a ring going to change? He also said I shouldn't cry and is mad about that. That I'm so negative. I told him I'm telling him this so he understands why my moods are so up and down. That he shouldn't get mad that I'm crying. At least I'm being honest with him. That if he's not going to do it tell me now and I'll be done with it all. He was mean and said some other things. That I'm attacking him for being untrustworthy and using me. That I keep telling him what he's not. That's not what I was doing. Just wanting to have a conversation about how I feel. He's always had problems with that. Communication is not his thing. He goes on the defense always and thinks he's being attacked. He hates talking so when I'm having an issue with something he walks away leaving it unsolved to be brought back up again. I should have known. He told me again that "I'll do it when I'm ready". At first it was timelines now I'll do it when I'm ready and I really know how to ruin a surprise. How can I trust him? I left it with I don't know what I want to do with this anymore and he left to pickup his daughters whom I'm not in the mood to see. Do you see why I feel the way I do? He told me again to just be quiet about it all. What kind of crap is that? I feel dumb. So very dumb.
> 
> Scared as well that I'll never marry at this point. I feel like I'm going to have to see a therapist for a while before I can date again and I'm no spring chicken anymore.
> ...


It's time to move on. It has been 7 years, which is plenty of time to figure out if you want to marry someone or not, and he is just stringing you along. You can go on like this forever if you allow it. A friend stayed for 10 years before she finally left and wishes she had done it sooner. She's now engaged to a man she has been with for 3 years.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Tobin said:


> You say "that's all you want" as if you're being generous by settling for nothing more than a lifetime commitment from a guy who has already been through one hell of a first marriage and probably knows that second marriages fail at close to _70% of the time. ._
> 
> Of course he doesn't want to get married again. Just about everyone who has been divorced realizes that marriage is a failed concept with the majority of marriages ending in divorce.
> 
> ...



What a load of crap. If he doesn't want to get married again that's his perogative but he can have the stones to be honest about it.

It's not a good thing to be with a man who doesn't have the pair to be straight about where he stands.


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Hello again...no I have not been here before. It makes me sad to know that someone is going through the same thing though. 

Tobin I appreciate your perspective on this. It's a different one that I wasn't expecting. I have quite a few friends and family who are happily married for many years. I'm in in for the long run. I've only had a two relationships with the last being my ex fiancé. Was with him for 6 and at a very young age got cold feet and wanted to be single for some years before settling down. I dated here and there before my current boyfriend. So I don't view marriage the way you do.

I do agree that he should have the guts to tell me the truth. I don't think I'd be as upset. The fact he has me hoping is just wrong.

That's why I'm wondering why not just tell me when I gave him an out earlier? I have to believe he does love me. Would he be living a lie this long? He had an opportunity to get his own place before we moved here. I know his credit is not good but there are people who will rent.

At this point I have come to terms with that he's not wanting to marry again. Maybe he's scared? The last experience for him devastated him but I'm not her. I'm not like that and I have proven that consistently. So I don't know.

I'm in deep thoughts on how to approach this and praying for the courage and strength to do the right thing because right now I'm weak and afraid. I can't lie about that. 

I appreciate all of your help. You've opened my eyes to a perspective I've been battling with already.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> I do agree that he should have the guts to tell me the truth. I don't think I'd be as upset. The fact he has me hoping is just wrong.
> 
> That's why I'm wondering why not just tell me when I gave him an out earlier? I have to believe he does love me. Would he be living a lie this long?


He hasn't said he doesn't want to marry you because he enjoys the benefits of being with you. He figures if he tells you the truth, you would leave him. If you leave him, he has to live on his own without you there making his family life very nice, and without you loving _him_.

He might love you, but that doesn't equate to wanting to get married. And even if he loves you, he doesn't tell you the truth about how he feels about marriage and your relationship. That's a huge red flag you shouldn't ignore.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Truthfully, doesnt sound like hes worth it.

I have a strong feeling you can do lots better.

he lost me when you said he got angry for you asking.
dork.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Mrs.Submission said:


> This. *If marriage is your goal, it is best not to give someone all the benefits of marriage without being husband and wife. Your boyfriend is comfortable because he has you playing the wife role without being married. *
> 
> He doesn't want to marry you. A ring doesn't have to be expensive if a couple wants to be married. There are also alternatives to diamonds that are much more reasonably priced, so your boyfriend is just making excuses and stalling.
> 
> ...



You and I think very much alike and the highlighted portion is exactly right. There's an old saying that everyone knows; "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free".

Not that I'm comparing OP to a cow but you get the idea. The first mistake you made was moving in together with no commitment. If commitment and ultimately marriage is what you wanted, then this wasn't a prudent decision.

I remember way back, before I was engaged to my now wife, that I asked her to move to the city I was living in. She lived some 400 miles away and told me that she wouldn't even consider it without a ring on her finger.

We were on a path to get married anyway, and ultimately did, but I respected her more for her stance.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

When my husband and I were dating, he told me his ideal timeframe for engagement then marriage was 5 years. In a pass the butter tone I informed him that there was no way in he!l that I was waiting around for 5 years. Not a chance. Lol. He then said 2 years. We were married 2 and a bit years after we met 

We both always knew it would happen, our conversations gradually changed from the generic "if I ever get married..." to "when WE get married", or I'd say how good he was to do something for me because "We're not married or anything" and he'd respond with "Not yet  "

When we decided to live together we were both very clear that I was only moving in because engagement was on the table, and he had a timeline of roughly 12 months. I was fine with that. I did remind him though around Christmas that year that he had promised me engagement within 12 months, and that if that timeline had changed in his mind, and he wasn't ready I needed to know. I then said that "If you are ready, get on with it", hehe. A few weeks later we were engaged.

OP, he's not going to marry you, and even if he did now would you really be excited and happy? If you have to drag him kicking and screaming up the aisle is it really worth it?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I feel sad for you right now. This would be hard. I didn't stuff around in moving in with my partner either. We practically lived together after the first date because we were inseparable. I think the thing that made it okay though was that I knew that he felt the same way as I did and looked forward to being married rather than feeling like it was a carrot to dangle in front of me like I was a donkey he was riding on.

He's dangling it and using it to hurt you. Marriage to this man wouldn't mean anything now. Even if he did propose now I bet he'd always hold it over your head, "YOU wanted this, so YOU'D better shutup and make the most of it!" anytime you had a complaint, even a completely valid one. Marriage to this man would feel like a ball and chain. There would be no joy in it.

Think long and hard about whether you want to spend the rest of your life married to a person who will always act like he was forced into it. I couldn't imagine a worse way to start married life together, and the ongoing blame game would be hell.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

RoseAglow said:


> OP, google "Renters, Buyers, and Freeloaders". Your husband is at best a renter and more likely a freeloader. You're looking for a buyer. Your guy isn't a buyer, at least not at this point.


Absolutely pertinent topic. the guy i dated after my divorce was definitely a freeloader. He was able to get my friends and family aroused into thinking that he was on the marriage track. But when it came time to plan his move to my city (and my country), he tried the "can I move in you" routine.

I suppose this can work with some women. We think that if a guy is taking up space in our apartment, we can keep tabs on him easier, ergo, he must be faithful after all that.

But I was living in a tiny 2 bed apartment AND one bedroom was totally occupied by mu business. Someone who makes 6 figure as he was should have wanted more than that.

AND SHOULD HAVE WANTED TO SHARE IT WITH THE PERSON THAT HE CARES ABOUT.

But I did have friends and family who told me that I obviously did not care enough about him if I could not find space for him in my apartment. _ No other questions asked._ The way some women apply Women's Lib, I do wonder whether it was worth it sometimes.

OP, I sympathize with your situation. You probably thought you were helping your boyfriend get back on his feet. And it appears that he doesn't appreciate it. 

It could be that he does not like the idea that his long time partner has see n him at his worst. He would much rather start over with someone else.

It might be as well that he wants to be The Man and your overwhelming support will not let him be so.

It seems to me that your situation is past the point of no return. Do you really want him to marry you after all that begging / badgering?

Would you feel good about the marriage then?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

The term, "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Based on what you wrote about him, I'd be more afraid of marrying him than not marrying him.
Why would you want to marry a a 40+ year old man who is not financially established? That alone should be a deal breaker.


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Thank you. He over the last year has used the terms when we get married, where the reception will be, your future husband, etc. in which he's never done before. So that had me thinking wow it's gonna happen. 

Even at his last family reunion his older uncles and family kept saying don't you think it's time you wife this beautiful woman up? It's about that time. My boyfriend agreed. When my boyfriend refers to us and the kids he refers to us as his family.

So It truly truly hurts my heart to know that I've been used and he's never going to marry me and possibly marry someone else.

I'm in pain. It hurt so bad to wake up next to him this morning thinking he doesn't love me enough and I've been used and that I'm going to have to leave him.

7 years is a long time. My heart hurts for our daughters. I have prayed for him to come through but the general consensus is that he is not. There is nothing that I can do? Maybe give him more trust? 

Or is that dumb? I'm feeling lost, dazed, confused, angry, sad, scared, dumb, used & taken advantage of.

Need prayers for strength, courage and confidence.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

waiting_forever said:


> Thank you all!! So happy to have gotten quick responses. I tried to talk to him about my concerns. I told him that I'm feeling anxious and depressed and that I'm hurt because I feel strung along. He went straight into anger mode. Said "right I just spent every dime I had on you this weekend and it was all a big waste". I told him that spending money on me has nothing to do with it. That I'm feeling insecure and like I'm not good enough. That it's hard for me to have faith and trust because of all of his broken promises and
> I don't think I can take this anymore. He told me that I really know how to ruin things with my negativity and crying. That a proposal is supposed to be worked up to and joyous. Then he said what is a ring going to change? He also said I shouldn't cry and is mad about that. That I'm so negative. I told him I'm telling him this so he understands why my moods are so up and down. That he shouldn't get mad that I'm crying. At least I'm being honest with him. That if he's not going to do it tell me now and I'll be done with it all. He was mean and said some other things. That I'm attacking him for being untrustworthy and using me. That I keep telling him what he's not. That's not what I was doing. Just wanting to have a conversation about how I feel. He's always had problems with that. Communication is not his thing. He goes on the defense always and thinks he's being attacked. He hates talking so when I'm having an issue with something he walks away leaving it unsolved to be brought back up again. I should have known. He told me again that "I'll do it when I'm ready". At first it was timelines now I'll do it when I'm ready and I really know how to ruin a surprise. How can I trust him? I left it with I don't know what I want to do with this anymore and he left to pickup his daughters whom I'm not in the mood to see. Do you see why I feel the way I do? He told me again to just be quiet about it all. What kind of crap is that? I feel dumb. So very dumb.
> 
> Scared as well that I'll never marry at this point. I feel like I'm going to have to see a therapist for a while before I can date again and I'm no spring chicken anymore.
> ...


It's possible.... I only know because I was once in his shoes. Though I wasn't with some one for seven years I was with my x Gf for a year. The first 6 months were bliss and she did change my mind about marriage. After six months the pressure started to come and I came to the shocking realization that she was interested in marriage, not me. Every time she brought it up, every time she got demanding about it, every time she would talk about how all her friends were married and she wasn't it turned me off till I walked away. When I did she went kicking and screaming saying she loved me and not just the idea of marriage, she was married to some new guy 4 months later....

Now 7 years is a long time but I am just pointing out that yes you can literally turn someone off from marriage. It's one of the very few things a guy gets to control about a relationship and when constant pressure and nagging about it comes up it makes you reconsider. I get that you feel used and frustrated and it's hard to know without his side without him here. And cheating with a WAW can definitely make you reconsider getting married again...did he ever get counseling for that?

My suggestion would be that you stop completely bringing this up and make plans to get out. He knows what you want so no need to keep talking about it. Just make your plans and leave. Doesn't matter anymore if he was never going to marry you or you nagged him out of it the fact is he hasn't done it and you are living your life waiting on someone else...live your life for you and move on. In he next relationship set your limit and make it known but then don't keep bringing it up. Live your life for you


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

Mostlycontent said:


> You and I think very much alike and the highlighted portion is exactly right. There's an old saying that everyone knows; "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free".
> 
> Not that I'm comparing OP to a cow but you get the idea. The first mistake you made was moving in together with no commitment. If commitment and ultimately marriage is what you wanted, then this wasn't a prudent decision.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't have moved in with my husband if we weren't seriously discussing marriage, looking at rings and set a date for a wedding. My husband asked me not to move in with him unless I wanted to be his wife. He proposed two months later. My father was concerned that my husband just wanted convenience but my mom knew that my husband was a "good boy" in her words. 

I think that marriage focused cohabitation is fine but many women shack up with no clear plan for a future with their partners. When a couple is set on marriage before moving in together and firm plans have been made, that is a much better situation than moving in with no concrete plans to marry.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

waiting_forever said:


> Thank you. He over the last year has used the terms when we get married, where the reception will be, your future husband, etc. in which he's never done before. So that had me thinking wow it's gonna happen.
> 
> Even at his last family reunion his older uncles and family kept saying don't you think it's time you wife this beautiful woman up? It's about that time. My boyfriend agreed. When my boyfriend refers to us and the kids he refers to us as his family.
> 
> ...


*hug* So sorry that you are going through this. I don't think that this man deserves any more years of your life.
The sooner you get out, the sooner you can start to heal.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

waiting_forever,

Your bf seems to think that he is the gate keeper of marriage... it's his decision and his decision alone... that somehow you have no say in this.

The two of you have been together for 7 years, the idea of him 'surprising' you with a rind and a proposal is, well a bit ludicrous. After 7 years you two already have a pretty long term relationship. At that length of time in a relationship, marriage is usually a more joint decision. Not one popping a surprise proposal on the other.

You did not ruin a surprise. He does not want to be married. And as others have said, he does not sound like much of a catch.. more of a user.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Even if he finally proposes, I doubt he would ever walk down the aisle. It will just be more foot-dragging for another 7 years. A ring is meaningless without the marriage license to go with it.

You have a tough decision to make. Stay, or go?


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

Two words that will help if you use them with him...."BYE BYE".....


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Hello everyone. Quick update. He just called and apologized and said that he’s hurt that I feel that he’s used me and strung along. That he’s hurt that I don’t believe him. That he has told me that he has had a ring but it has to be at the right moment. That it’s going to be the last time that him or I will ever be married and he wants it done at a very special time/occasion. He told me that I’m his life partner and that he intends on never being with anyone else. That he is not going to slap a silver band on my hand to appease me because I’m having a tantrum. That it has to be done right. Not like his first marriage where he married cause she was pregnant and at the court house. He told me that there are going to be a few joyous occasions in where I think I’m getting it but I’m not. Just so that I’m truly surprised (he did say that a few months back). He said that he doesn’t like that I doubt him. That what is he using me for? A place to live and half of bills and sex once a week? Then I said after 7 years what kind of a surprise is that? Now that you’re telling me you have a ring? He said that let’s count since the break up (which we broke up once for like two months) and I said we broke up for two months, how can you discount the earlier years? Like they meant nothing? He said that there were a few break ups. I said arguments maybe, but not break ups. I broke up with you once for two months and took you right back so how can he discount those years? Anyway, so I don’t know. He said I always lace his actions of wanting to do it with making him feel less than good for me by not trusting him to do it if he said he was going to do it. This is the most that he’s said regarding this. I am still going to make a plan to leave. Of course this throws a curve ball in how I’m feeling though.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

waiting_forever said:


> Hello everyone. Quick update. He just called and apologized and said that he’s hurt that I feel that he’s used me and strung along. That he’s hurt that I don’t believe him. *That he has told me that he has had a ring but it has to be at the right moment.* That it’s going to be the last time that him or I will ever be married and he wants it done at a very special time/occasion. He told me that I’m his life partner and that he intends on never being with anyone else. That he is not going to slap a silver band on my hand to appease me because I’m having a tantrum. That it has to be done right. Not like his first marriage where he married cause she was pregnant and at the court house. He told me that there are going to be a few joyous occasions in where I think I’m getting it but I’m not. WTF does this mean. Just so that I’m truly surprised (he did say that a few months back). He said that he doesn’t like that I doubt him. That what is he using me for? A place to live and half of bills and sex once a week? Then I said after 7 years what kind of a surprise is that? Now that you’re telling me you have a ring? He said that let’s count since the break up (which we broke up once for like two months) and I said we broke up for two months, how can you discount the earlier years? Like they meant nothing? He said that there were a few break ups. I said arguments maybe, but not break ups. I broke up with you once for two months and took you right back so how can he discount those years? Anyway, so I don’t know. He said I always lace his actions of wanting to do it with making him feel less than good for me by not trusting him to do it if he said he was going to do it. This is the most that he’s said regarding this. I am still going to make a plan to leave. Of course this throws a curve ball in how I’m feeling though.


He's a freeloader. start making plans to unravel your life from him.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OMG... I hope you're not going to fall for that line.

If he had a ring it would be on your finger by now.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

These days marriage offers very little benefit to men. It's basically a contract for a woman to be able to draw money off of him the rest of his life. Your BF no doubt realizes this to and is trying to put off marriage as long as possible. I know that if I wasn't married I sure as hell wouldn't want to be either. Since marriage is what you want I think that you'll have to make plans to leave him. Set down a drop-dead date of either I get a ring by this date or I leave. If you leave it up to him to ask you, he won't.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

When did this breakup occur? What was it about?


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Yes I agree of having a deadline. He also said he feels bad when I tell him he better propose and marry me or else I’m leaving off to someone who will. Like that is my only goal and he questions if my love for him is real. Like he’s that disposable just for marriage. Now I have never told him that to mean that. I've said to please let me go if he can never provide that to me because I can find someone who is on the same page goals wise and who will give me what I need to be happy. So if I do the deadline, is a bad idea to give him yet another ultimatum? Or can I set my own that he doesn't know about?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Tell him he has two weeks to surprise you with a proposal. Better yet, tell him you don't want a proposal anymore but you do want him to move out.

There's no point in giving him an ultimatum since he's never done anything when you've given him one before, AND you've always stuck around so your ultimatums means absolutely nothing to him. Give yourself an ultimatum - x timeframe, and after that you are done.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

OP, it's just more of the same old - same old.

How many "joyous occasions" have to pass before you get your ring??

Let's see, Halloween is coming up, followed by Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years. So that's at least 3 more months. Any birthdays or other "holidays" you can throw in there (for instance, today happens to be International Sudoku Day) just to shorten the time frame?

C'mon... you can't seriously believe what he is telling you.

Stick with your exit plan.


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Wolf1974 we couldn't come to an agreement on where to live/move because he wanted to live closer to his daughters and I was not willing to move that far. We were fighting a lot so I needed space and time to think.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

waiting_forever said:


> Wolf1974 we couldn't come to an agreement on where to live/move because he wanted to live closer to his daughters and I was not willing to move that far. We were fighting a lot so I needed space and time to think.


So you broke up with him? How long ago was this?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

You are married already, essentially. You've already blended your family, and in the eyes of the law you are each other's spouse, should you separate you are afforded all the rights a married couple would as for equity, support payments and custody. And marriage isn't any kind of enforceable "commitment" anyway, since you can get a divorce if either of you just quits. If all else was the same, except you'd had a ceremony with a white dress and had a piece of jewelry on a different finger, would all your other relationship needs be fulfilled?

I'm playing devil's advocate here, but just trying to point out that a wedding ceremony doesn't change the dynamics of a long term relationship in any noticeable way. If you want a wedding, that is a reasonable desire, but it should be mutual. And if the relationship is healthy and good, wouldn't you both want to be in it, regardless of whatever public ceremony you choose to participate in?


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Wolf 1974 yes I did. I was fed up with his not willing to compromise. I offered to move 10 minutes closer to them and it still wasn't good enough. He had to be on the same street which is totally unrealistic. His daughters and their mom married for money and are in a very rich neighborhood. I was fed up with his entitlement and being flexible and realistic and just had a point where I needed space. This was 3 years ago I believe.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

waiting_forever said:


> Wolf 1974 yes I did. I was fed up with his not willing to compromise. I offered to move 10 minutes closer to them and it still wasn't good enough. He had to be on the same street which is totally unrealistic. His daughters and their mom married for money and are in a very rich neighborhood. I was fed up with his entitlement and being flexible and realistic and just had a point where I needed space. This was 3 years ago I believe.


Ok. Doesn't change my answer, still think you should set your timeline and move on when you hit it. But I do understand his perspective more now. I honestly doubt you will ever be on the same page about the marriage thing


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Wolf1974 you understand his perspective? Am I being too hard on him? Not trusting? Needy?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

@waiting_forever

DUMP HIM YOU FOOL! Sorry to be harsh but you need a verbal 2x4 badly.

Even if this guys proposes tomorrow, it will only be because you twisted his arm into doing it.

Is THAT who you want to be married too? Someone you had to BEG to marry you?!? It's pathetic.

Basically, you're looking for a shotgun wedding.... From a liar who promised to commit but hasn't.

Guys who date SEVEN years, date SEVEN years because they don't want to marry but you fill needs.

If they did they would of asked LONG ago. He's comfortable with you like an old Toyota but you'll never be a Ferrari to him.

You expect him to buy the cow when he's been getting the milk for free all this time. Why should he?!? I wouldn't.

Break up with him like yesterday. When he asks you why tell him point blank, "I'm TIRED of wasting good years on a LOSER!"

41 is not too late to find someone and it'll be a lot harder at 48 or 55. How many more YEARS are you going to waste?

He doesn't want you and if he does it'll only be because you nagged the crap out of him... Get some self respect already.

If he TRULY loved you, you'd ALREADY be married. I promise you that much.


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

BetrayedDad - Ouch. That was a tad harsh. Like I need to feel any more insecure, badly or feeling that I've been used. I think others have gotten that point across already.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

waiting_forever said:


> Wolf1974 you understand his perspective? Am I being too hard on him? Not trusting? Needy?


I don't know how to answer this. I don't know the guy. It's possible that he is just stringing you along for as long as he can. But much of this story could have been written by me with different timelines. In my case yes my GF was more interested in Marriage than me in my opinion. She saw me and marriage as the same thing. I don't see marriage as an end game just a new chapter so I want value placed on a great relationship not a piece of paper and a ring. Ultimately we broke it off and she got her wish and married some guy 4 months later. I swear on my kids had she been more patient, and shown that she wanted me and not just the marriage status we would be married today. I truely believe that

All that said it doesn't matter. Relationships in any form are about compatability. You want to be married and now. He doesn't and it really doesn't matter what the reason is, valid or not. It's just not now. You can't put your life on hold indefinitely and if you breaking up with him , in the past, is the cause of his reluctantance then how long will that go on? Another 7 years. You can't change his mind on it anymore than you can undo the past. All you can do is move forward and don't do some of this stuff in the future. I really think you need to move on. And even if a year or two from now he marries someone else that isn't about you that's again just about compatability 

Sorry you are having such a hard time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think for you to get the best result out of this, I'd give him one more chance, but this time, you are in control. Set an absolute drop dead date of a couple of months and make sure he knows about it...I get a ring or I leave, no excuses no second chance. During this time frame, start making plans to leave and let him see you start packing as if you are going to leave. He has to know you are down right serious this time. This way if the deadline passes and you leave you know that there's no way he was going to marry you and there's no what if's.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

There'll always be something to set back his plans. I see all these videos on the internet of these extravagant marriage proposals, people dancing etc, but just remember, you've already said yes! It's ridiculous now. He's saying he wants to make it a big deal for HIM to feel it's special. It's not actually about you at all at this point. All that matters is that he has it the way he wants it. The problem is, there were major gaps of time in between his promises and he never delivered. Maybe that perfect moment will just never arrive. What then?

I think you are convinced he really means to get married. If you decide you want to give him a chance, drop the discussion completely. Never bring it up. If he brings it up just tell him that you've told him how you feel for years and he wants you to leave it up to him, so you will. Then think long and hard about how long you are willing to wait. I would give it 6 months personally. Pretend this is a new beginning and start fresh and this is a very decent amount of time for him to get his act together. NEVER tell him he has a time limit, this is for you only. If he doesn't propose in 6 months, you know he never will and you can act accordingly.

I still think you should really consider whether you want this marriage though.


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Thank you. I'm hesitant to give a date to him because he doesn't do well with ultimatums or "being told what to do". What's another way to word it? Any advice?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

waiting_forever said:


> Thank you. I'm hesitant to give a date to him because he doesn't do well with *ultimatums* or "being told what to do". What's another way to word it? Any advice?


Yes don't give him one. You give yourself one. Doesn't matter if It's a week or couple months to start of the new year. He knows what you want so nonsense bringing it up. Let's say you decided jan 1st. Just be a sweet and loving GF through then but say nothing about leaving. When Jan 1st comes and he hasn't purposed then look for new place to live. Again say nothing at all. Once you find a place , all the ducks in a row and movers are set tell him the day before you leave. That's not a discussion it's just statement of what is going to happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

waiting_forever said:


> Thank you. I'm hesitant to give a date to him because he doesn't do well with ultimatums or "being told what to do". What's another way to word it? Any advice?


There's no need to word anything. He's told you how he feels, he knows how you feel.

Stop talking about it. Never bring it up again. At the end of your internal deadline (two weeks, two months, whatever), just move out.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> BetrayedDad - Ouch. That was a tad harsh. Like I need to feel any more insecure, badly or feeling that I've been used. I think others have gotten that point across already.


So lets assume you get what you want and finally convince this guy to marry you through the means you've been using.

How's it going to feel when he proposes? After the 10 minute ceremony is over, how are you going to feel? I can't imagine it wouldn't feel pretty empty and insincere.

I honestly can't imagine spending the rest of my life with someone that I had to go to these lengths to convince that I was worth marrying. I'd resent him and the actions that I took for the rest of my life. Your "fairytale" collapsed the second both of you went down this road. 

The reality is that you have compatibility issues in a number of areas that make the chances that you're going to make it long-term unlikely. Especially his financial issues which you're also already starting to resent.

My advice....best honest with yourself because he sure isn't going to do it. You have wasted time with someone who's really not a good choice for you and that you don't have any hope of truly achieving your dreams with. You know this won't be the last issue like this even if you threaten him into marrying you.

Real men don't do what he's doing and you absolutely deserve a real man.

By the way, I wasted over 20 years married to the wrong guy and there are times when I still lament the wasted time. When I got divorced, I realized that having my freedom was FAR more important than the daily disrespect of tolerating a crappy relationship and I accepted that I may be single for the rest of my life and that was ok. I would have being single with dignity and been fine with it.

But at 41 years old, I met the man of my dreams and am now very, very ecstatically remarried. There are LOTS of fish in the sea and you're a woman who has her life together and who will have no problem meeting someone else.

Kick his wishy-washy ass to the curb...you'll immediately recover some of what you've lost. And go into the next phase of your life knowing you have the strength to not let some inferior man take advantage of you. Believe that you're worth it because you are...you're a great pick for a partner. Nothing sexier to a man than a woman who's financially stable. You'll do well in the dating world.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'll share with you what happened with my husband and I. I've shared this on TAM before and been called some nasty names but fortunately I have a thick skin 

We met when I was 31 and he was 50. I was divorced with two little boys and he was divorced with a 16 year old daughter. Both divorced once.....

We dated for several years, and while I was in no hurry because neither of us were interested in having more kids I did want to be married at some point. I sat him down after 3 years and told him that I wanted to be married and if he didn't I understood that was his decision to make but I'd have to keep my options open. He stuttered a little but then started talking about marriage; I told him I'd not bring it up again and would simply watch his actions. I wasn't interested in marrying someone who I had to nag into it, as a few other posters have pointed out. If marriage wasn't a goal for him that made us incompatible and I'd find someone for whom it was a goal.

He continued to talk about getting married and we moved in together 2 years later. I wasn't thrilled about moving in together before we were married but he'd talked about it so much without prompting from me and we'd already picked out a ring together before the move that I decided to give him that much trust. We got married a year later and he planned a lot of the wedding.....he's a great planner so it was a natural fit.

I think that you should tell him one more time that marriage is something you want and if he doesn't you understand but you will find someone for whom it is a goal. Be very calm when you do it, then tell him you won't bring it up again but you will see what happens. Maybe he'll tell you right then that it isn't a goal for him but I doubt it because if he was going to do that he would've done it already. Set a private goal for yourself of however long makes you comfortable, say 6 months, and if nothing happens pack your stuff and leave. Don't be nasty, don't cry, just tell him that it's clear to you that your goals are not compatible and you understand but you will be finding someone who wants what you do.

He may change his mind at that point but if I were you I wouldn't take it because it would only be because you forced his hand, but that's up to you. Some will argue that's what I did to my husband and I suppose you could view it like that but I don't know what else I was supposed to do. It's not cool to b!tch someone into marrying you but you also have to decide what you want out of the relationship so I was giving my now husband an amicable out if it wasn't what he wanted. He's entitled to decide what he wants but so am I. 

I can tell you that now he says he has no idea why he waited so long to marry me and he's very happy and plans to die married to me (he's a good bit older).


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> I think for you to get the best result out of this, I'd give him one more chance, but this time, you are in control. Set an absolute drop dead date of a couple of months and make sure he knows about it...I get a ring or I leave, no excuses no second chance. During this time frame, start making plans to leave and let him see you start packing as if you are going to leave. He has to know you are down right serious this time. This way if the deadline passes and you leave you know that there's no way he was going to marry you and there's no what if's.


She already gave him several chances to no avail.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Mrs.Submission said:


> She already gave him several chances to no avail.


She gave several timelines and ultimatums. What is being suggested is she stops talking about it and gives him the Chance to do the big proposal he supposedly is hoping for. Also suggested she makes a timeline and sticks to it for her sake and not his.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You partner doesn't sound like the kind of guy that really commits to anything, he isn't very together in terms of his finances, etc. You seem to be the pillar of the family and he likes it that way. Why rock the boat for him, he has everything without having to put a ring on it. However, if he loved you or considered your feelings he would take that step, it is about commitment to someone, it smacks of him wanting his cake and to eat it too. Incidentally all that story about having the ring, the big occasion, etc is just a story.

If marriage is really so important to you, then you have to think about where you want to be in five years, still with him without the ring, on your own or with someone and a ring, what option do you want? Work towards it, give him a deadline and then move.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> She gave several timelines and ultimatums. What is being suggested is she stops talking about it and gives him the Chance to do the big proposal he supposedly is hoping for. Also suggested she makes a timeline and sticks to it for her sake and not his.


After nearly a decade and nothing but excuses, I doubt that the OP's boyfriend is going to suddenly have an epiphany and ask her to marry him. 

As for a timeline, she has waited for many years and nothing has happened. How much more time should she invest a relationship that isn't going anywhere? If he wanted to marry her, he would have proposed a long time ago.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The idea that for waiting_forever, it's about being married and not about her love for her boyfriend is just silly.

She's been with him for 7 years. That's a long time to spend with someone. If she were only about getting married, she would have left a long time ago because clearly this guy is not interested in marriage.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Mrs.Submission said:


> After nearly a decade and nothing but excuses, I doubt that the OP's boyfriend is going to suddenly have an epiphany and ask her to marry him.
> 
> As for a timeline, she has waited for many years and nothing has happened. How much more time should she invest a relationship that isn't going anywhere? If he wanted to marry her, he would have proposed a long time ago.


That's true, however from what the OP has written there are some things that I don't think she's ready to face.

OP, I think that you need to get this idea of giving him ultimatums completely out of your mind. You are stuck on that. Stop. Don't give him a date, don't give him a timeline, just don't. Stop talking to him about marriage completely.

STOP thinking about what HE feels and START thinking about what YOU feel. You are so caught up with trying to figure out what he's thinking that you've completely forgotten what the most important factor is in this: how do you feel about being married to him at this stage?

The idea of waiting 6 months from this point forward was to give you time to analyse how you feel, observe how he acts and figure out if you really want this. Maybe even start the 180 to try and detach a little from this situation to give you some clarity. The idea is to stop reacting and start thinking and observing.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

waiting_forever said:


> Thank you all!! So happy to have gotten quick responses. I tried to talk to him about my concerns. I told him that I'm feeling anxious and depressed and that I'm hurt because I feel strung along. He went straight into anger mode. Said "right I just spent every dime I had on you this weekend and it was all a big waste". I told him that spending money on me has nothing to do with it. That I'm feeling insecure and like I'm not good enough. That it's hard for me to have faith and trust because of all of his broken promises and
> I don't think I can take this anymore. He told me that I really know how to ruin things with my negativity and crying. That a proposal is supposed to be worked up to and joyous. Then he said what is a ring going to change? He also said I shouldn't cry and is mad about that. That I'm so negative. I told him I'm telling him this so he understands why my moods are so up and down. That he shouldn't get mad that I'm crying. At least I'm being honest with him. That if he's not going to do it tell me now and I'll be done with it all. He was mean and said some other things. That I'm attacking him for being untrustworthy and using me. That I keep telling him what he's not. That's not what I was doing. Just wanting to have a conversation about how I feel. He's always had problems with that. Communication is not his thing. He goes on the defense always and thinks he's being attacked. He hates talking so when I'm having an issue with something he walks away leaving it unsolved to be brought back up again. I should have known. He told me again that "I'll do it when I'm ready". At first it was timelines now I'll do it when I'm ready and I really know how to ruin a surprise. How can I trust him? I left it with I don't know what I want to do with this anymore and he left to pickup his daughters whom I'm not in the mood to see. Do you see why I feel the way I do? He told me again to just be quiet about it all. What kind of crap is that? I feel dumb. So very dumb.
> 
> Scared as well that I'll never marry at this point. I feel like I'm going to have to see a therapist for a while before I can date again and I'm no spring chicken anymore.
> ...


Join a gym. Get yourself in the best shape of your life. Get a new hairstyle, buy something new to wear. Do whatever you have to do to make yourself feel good. All the while making plans to leave him. Let him SEE that you are NOT playing around. Men don't care what you say. They only care about what you actually do. Telling him you are unsure does no good. SHOW him you mean it. Action will get his attention when YOUR attention is on something else other than him.

Women want to believe what their partner tells them. But you also have to recognize when your partner is saying things just to appease you in the moment. If you don't demand respect you will never ever get it. He doesnt respect you to keep his word to you!

Leave him and get your happy back!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Most others said what I'd say to you, OP. 

He doesn't want to marry. He doesn't want to marry you. 

Honestly, why would he marry you when he gets all the benefits you can offer with no strings attached. 

You seem to be very needy, otherwise you would not have moved in with a man, blended families, signed a lease.... Enmeshed your life wholly with a man that did not offer what you wanted. 

I'd question whether you actually do want to be married, because after all this time you have stayed with him even though he keeps moving the goal posts. 

I think you need to work on loving yourself more. Figure out what YOU want, then learn to understand that you won't get what you want from him. You'll be sad and hurt of course, but you'll be OK. Sorry you had to learn this tough lesson. Next time I hope you stick to your guns.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Mrs.Submission said:


> After nearly a decade and nothing but excuses, I doubt that the OP's boyfriend is going to suddenly have an epiphany and ask her to marry him.
> 
> 
> As for a timeline, she has waited for many years and nothing has happened. How much more time should she invest a relationship that isn't going anywhere? If he wanted to marry her, he would have proposed a long time ago.


I don't necessarily agree that he would have done it long ago. It is possible that he is stringing her along. It's also possible that her breaking up with him has caused a lot of doubts about him marrying her. Having been in that position I can relate.

As far as how long she should wait...I don't think at all. But her track record proves that ultimatums won't work so if she is going to wait longer might has well try something different


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Satya said:


> Most others said what I'd say to you, OP.
> 
> He doesn't want to marry. He doesn't want to marry *you*.
> 
> ...


This


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Hello all and thanks again for all of the amazing support!! Sending so many virtual hugs!! 

Wolf1974 what is the different route you suggest? This is the last route I'm ever taking.

I've also signed up to see a therapist in order to get myself stronger as a part of what lilbitoluv mentioned to get my life back together, workout, go out more, etc. Is that part of the 180?

Satya - I feel like you all are making it seem like there is no hope what-so-ever for him and I so why bother? With I should have learned a lesson, etc. Just feeling extremely discouraged and confused. You are making it sound like it's really never going to happen. This just crushes me to think about.

We are a family. Our families are family. I do everything with him as we are married for 7 years. To think all of this that I've fallen in love with including his daughters, his family, etc. how he is with our families. It just makes me sad. Again, it feels like we are getting divorced.

I understand that it may be what it may be but to think I've been nothing but used and he has lived this sort of "fake" life this whole time is a bit traumatizing.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

waiting_forever said:


> Hello all and thanks again for all of the amazing support!! Sending so many virtual hugs!! Wolf1974 what is the different route you suggest? This is the last route I'm ever taking.
> 
> I've also signed up to see a therapist in order to get myself stronger as a part of what lilbitoluv mentioned to get my life back together, workout, go out more, etc. Is that part of the 180?


Waiting_forever,

You could try the 180 I suppose but I really don't know that this will work. If nothing else you will emotionally detach form him and get strong enough to leave which would be a good thing. However I think you are missing what many of us are trying to tell you...you can't change his mind not now, not next week, not ever. 

This is only my guess as it relates to my own experience but when you told us he stated that he counted the time you have been together since the breakup that speaks volumes. I am guessing that this breakup is a big thing to him and he either keeps it silent or keeps bringing all fights back to that. This is how he sees it...was cheated and had his wife leave him which causes insecurities. Then you come along promise that you won't do that very thing to him. But when things got tough you left. And proved him right. So now in his mind, consciously or subconsciously, he sees you as a potential threat to get hurt again.... You don't need counseling, he does big time.

Sometimes things from the past can't be undone. you gave him the "excuse". So you will either have to reconcile that you stay and won't marry or leave this guy and find someone who will. When myself and others are saying that you can give yourself and ultimatim and then leave after a date you set thats strictly for your benefit. I get the feeling you are going to give this another try no matter what anyone says. My hope is that after you don't bring it up, as he has asked, and don't pressure him, as he has asked, and let him have time to plan a big surprise, as he has asked you will see he still isn't going to purpose. Then maybe you can move on feeling like you have tried it all.

If you were my sister I would want you out like yesterday. I know the type and have been in the situation.. This isn't going to end happy for you.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Everything he's saying might be true to a small or large extent, but that doesn't change the fact that what he says is designed to keep you around by making you feel a tad bit guilty while at the same time he dangles a carrot on a string in front of your nose and then yanks it away. 

It's been 7 YEARS. He has had more than plenty of time to decide if he wants to marry you and to actually do something about it.

It's really not that complicated. Ask the question. Set a date. Buy a couple wedding bands. Have the ceremony. Live life. The end.

Heck, my DH proposed during sunrise sex. No ring. Just "Will you marry me? I'm serious. Marry me." We bought a couple of classic wedding bands in white gold, made an appointment with the Justice of the Peace, had a ceremony, done. 

The proposal was from the heart and spontaneous. No production or arrangements in advance required. The actual ceremony was very special to us. We wrote our own vows based on various cultural traditions. It was just us, the officiant, and the witnesses. No big to-do to distract us from each other. Very intimate and personal.

Either your BF doesn't want to get married or doesn't want to marry you. No way around it. Everything else is excuses.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Satya said:


> Honestly, why would he marry you when he gets all the benefits you can offer with no strings attached.


How does unmarried = NSA?

Others are suggesting that not marrying is equivalent to the relationship "not going anywhere", but if so, then what possible next step is there after the nuptials that the relationship must go to in other to be considered progressing?

OP, what is your ultimate goal here? What relationship need are you missing? A sworn oath? If you were to have some kind of vow from him, even if it's not a lavish ceremony, would that assure you that you have his loyalty and love, and what is it about those words that would make anything different than it is now?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Lon, to a lot of people, a partner not wanting to marry means they aren't thinking about a future with you. Even a long term, live-in relationship just says this is good for now, but they're leaving the door open for something better, just in case.

It certainly doesn't have to mean that, but when your partner isn't honest about their reasons for not wanting to marry, the simplest answer is they don't want to commit to a relationship with YOU, and are leaving that door open in case they meet someone better.

My SO and I are both hesitant about marriage for some practical/financial reasons though we are committed to each other. We know this because we've had numerous candid discussions about it that didn't involve yelling and belittling. But if we couldn't have honest discussions about our thoughts, feelings, and how those practical issues play into a marriage for us, and if one of us kept LYING about how we really felt and kept stringing the other along, then the hesitancy about marriage would be a problem.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

We raise people in our society to feel like marriage is the way to seal the deal. If a person has been married previously, their views about marriage would probably change. I think mine would. I think the biggest problem here is that the OP, who hasn't been married before, cannot discard her dreams/beliefs about how this relationship should progress whereas her partner has been married before. He's had the whole deal and broken the seal and now it means less to him from a relationship progression perspective, and it probably just seems to come with a lot of negatives (more difficult to dissolve a relationship if it ends, while not really changing the dynamics of the relationship they currently have). He's been there and done that basically, why would he feel the need to do it again?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

breeze said:


> We raise people in our society to feel like marriage is the way to seal the deal. If a person has been married previously, their views about marriage would probably change. I think mine would. I think the biggest problem here is that the OP, who hasn't been married before, cannot discard her dreams/beliefs about how this relationship should progress whereas her partner has been married before. He's had the whole deal and broken the seal and now it means less to him from a relationship progression perspective, and it probably just seems to come with a lot of negatives (more difficult to dissolve a relationship if it ends, while not really changing the dynamics of the relationship they currently have). He's been there and done that basically, why would he feel the need to do it again?


The problem is he has not expressed any of that to her if that's how he feels. 

He keeps telling her to keep waiting so he can "surprise" her with a proposal after years of her being very clear with him that she DOES want marriage. She has even directly asked him to tell her if he doesn't want to get married, but he does not say he doesn't.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

norajane said:


> The problem is he has not expressed any of that to her if that's how he feels.
> 
> He keeps telling her to keep waiting so he can "surprise" her with a proposal after years of her being very clear with him that she DOES want marriage. She has even directly asked him to tell her if he doesn't want to get married, but he does not say he doesn't.


I agree, that if he is placating her then he is doing them both a huge disservice. I believe a person may be entirely happy with the thought of spending their life with someone without having to do the wedding thing, so I am very reluctant to label some one as leaving the door open for "something better" or that they would marry but just not for the OP.

If the case here is really that he is being insincere in telling her he's waiting for the right moment, or just truly doesnt want to marry ever, then it's crucial for them to discuss why. But if she's shown him inflexibility or lack of empathy and staunchly unwilling to accept the idea of continuing on without nuptials then she will never get the truth out of him. He likely sees their relationship as potentially compatible and fulfilling contingent on this one requirement. If a wedding is the utmost important part of her relationship to him, then he is not going to marry her.

I suspect this is akin to a sh1t test, where he wants to be valued and respected for who he is, and not some title she values more than him. If he is the one for her, she needs to let go of her firm obsession of a wedding and then maybe he will eventually unseize in this regard. But if a wedding is what she desires most she will be seeking it with a different person.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

I haven't seen any mention of whether he stated his intentions when you first got together. Did he say or imply when you first moved in together that he'd eventually marry you? Or did he say he didn't think or know if he'd ever get married again? Or did you just not talk about marriage at all at first?

Not saying he's in the right if he never promised you anything early on, because he has since and broken those promises - which are really just hurdles he keeps putting up in front of you - and as others have said, he should have the cajones to be honest.

Bottom line is you have to decide if you're willing stay with someone who very likely will never marry you, or to be alone for awhile until you find someone who really wants to.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Add me to the crew that says stop waiting. If he cared about being married, he'd have married you a while ago. He's just telling you what he needs to tell you to get you off his case.

What's stopping YOU from popping the question? Ask him straight out to marry you, and if he gives you anything but an enthusiastic yes, there's your answer about his true feelings. And honestly, as the less financially capable person in the relationship, he'd benefit MORE from being married to you than you would to him.

There are few functional changes to relationships between being common-law and being married. One is next of kin sort of stuff, if something happens to him or you, your own families might have more say in what medical care you are provided with than you would for each other. Benefits if one of you dies. And division of finances, if you break up.

All that aside, he doesn't sound like marriage material to me. He's financially unstable, he's manipulative and the main reasons you seem to stay with him are because you like his children and his family. Look up the sunk costs fallacy and see if any of it resonates with you.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

breeze said:


> *We raise people in our society to feel like marriage is the way to seal the deal*. If a person has been married previously, their views about marriage would probably change. I think mine would. I think the biggest problem here is that the OP, who hasn't been married before, cannot discard her dreams/beliefs about how this relationship should progress whereas her partner has been married before. He's had the whole deal and broken the seal and now it means less to him from a relationship progression perspective, and it probably just seems to come with a lot of negatives (more difficult to dissolve a relationship if it ends, while not really changing the dynamics of the relationship they currently have). He's been there and done that basically, why would he feel the need to do it again?


With the exception of my current Gf this has been my experience as well. The goal for the women I know and some men is to marry. Doesn't matter if the realtionship is good. Just marry. Guess I just don't see marriage as an endgame but your right that this society pushes that vs great and healthy relationships. I'm not anti marriage but I don't think marriage should occur when the relationship is unhealthy either


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Lon said:


> How does unmarried = NSA?
> 
> Others are suggesting that not marrying is equivalent to the relationship "not going anywhere", but if so, then what possible next step is there after the nuptials that the relationship must go to in other to be considered progressing?
> 
> OP, what is your ultimate goal here? What relationship need are you missing? A sworn oath? If you were to have some kind of vow from him, even if it's not a lavish ceremony, would that assure you that you have his loyalty and love, and what is it about those words that would make anything different than it is now?


Lon, 
I was speaking from the perspective of the OP. To her, marriage is the ultimate end goal of commitment. To some, marriage may not hold that same importance. 

It's clear that the OP and her bf differ in terms of their idea of an end goal. Right now, she is living by his idea of the end goal, but not her own. I think that the overwhelming message from posters is that she not compromise on her desires, even if they don't match his. 

In my experience, I have not yet ever seen a man that believes in marriage, take over 7 years to decide on whether he will marry his gf. If she's marriage material to him, I've never seen the dating stretch longer than about 2 years. The fact that he's waited over 7 tells me one of two things: either he doesn't want to be married, period, or he doesn't want to be married to her.

Right now he doesn't need to be married, since they are living a rather enmeshed life, so until she detaches herself sufficiently and starts living like she's preaching she wants to, we won't know which of the two things he is.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Your boyfriend does not want to marry you and he is a fool. (sorry)

You are in best age,only 40 and you can have another daughter or maybe a son  but your boyfriend does not love you like you love him.

Seven years is a lot of time and if he is not realized what a woman you are then it is his problem.
Trust me on this,there is a lot of man there who will die for woman like you,good job,loves his kids,what else do you want ! 

Even if he marry you you will always have a feeling that you kinda "forced" him into it.
I know it is hard for you especially after investing seven years,but do you want to "vaste" another year or years on this ?

Stay strong and best wishes from EU


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## princevinco (Jul 7, 2014)

I wish in addition suggest that you look inward and ask yourself," why is he afraid to commit himself in marriage with you" Are you sure that there nothing that he is seeing in you that made him scared of committing himself in marriage with you? If none of these is the case, then I counsel you to move on with your life, the man may never marry you. 

One major reason why the man had not proposed is because you are with him and he is enjoying or getting from you what married men are getting yet without marital commitments. As long as you are taking goog care of him, and may be satisfying him sexually any time he desires sex without his marital commitment to you, so he feels okay may never propose. 

Also another thing I want you to reflect and ask yourself is, "what if in the long run it happen that you are not meant for each other in marriage"? I suggest that you release yourself from him and move on with your life. Most a time, we don't know that there is a better open door unless one door closes. Realize that he is not the only man on earth, there are other better men out there who may love and cherish you better, but you have to open your eyes and mind wide to see such men. So stop wasting your life on him.


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## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

Marriage means different things to different people. Most people do get engaged after a couple of years together so I can understand the general attitude of the majority of responses you're getting here - because it's been 7 years so far for you guys. But you never showed real interest in marriage till December last year. I was the same for almost 10 years.

I never wanted to be married, or have a life partner, or kids, now I have all three. We bought a house together after 5 years, then had three children, then I realised that if I DID want to be married, I wanted it to be married before I turned 30. I told him this just after I turned 29, and I only said it once. I also said it would mean a lot to my dad, if he asked him for permission (even though he loves him like a son and would never say no). Prior to this moment, I had always been anti-marriage (for myself) or we'd discussed it like it was far in the future. But bam - I was ready now.

And then I never mentioned it to him again - I let him lead or initiate anything related to it. I never pressured, or suggested, or hinted - I trusted that he would do it. 3 months later he made the most amazing, public, romantic proposal, with friends and family present, and I was blown away (he asked my dad for permission too  ). We got married on our 10 (yes 10) year anniversary 6 months after that. Marriage is to some just a piece of paper, but I wanted the same surname as him and our kids, the legal and symbolic officiating of our relationship and joining of our families. 

I can understand that you feel unloved, rejected, insecure. 

I can also understand what your SO is saying, about wanting to do it his way, not being forced into it or nagged into it. It's the last proposal he'll make (hopefully) - he wants it to be wonderful because he loves you. There's not much worse for a man than to feel he's not trusted, or that his woman is trying to control him - that's what is pushing him the other way - being treated like he can't get this done.

You told him in December you were ready to be engaged now, you gave him less than a month to plan for you a wonderful proposal, from the heart. And to find the ring he thought would be perfect. December is stressful and busy enough as it is! And he didn't manage it by Xmas - and gave you reasons, he tried to explain himself to reassure you. Since then, I get the impression that you've been either asking about the proposal, implying that you're 'still waiting', acting annoyed about it when you feel hurt (which is pretty often by the sounds of it), generally - making him feel bad (inadequate) pretty often - about not having asked you yet. Which is really unromantic for him. It sounds like you are being controlling about all this. It's making the whole experience painful for both of you, with resentment on both sides. 

I think he wants to redeem himself, and impress you with his proposal - more than anything. And you're making it very hard - by constantly asking or guilting him. He doesn't want to ask you because he's been told to, or constantly reminded.

You can plan to leave him, which will either end this relationship (which sounds like its otherwise a really great relationship?) or force his proposal so it will be a negative memory. OR - if you really want to marry this man, let him propose his way. Without a SINGLE hint, reminder, anything from you, whether spoken, in your body language, your attitude for at least 6 - 8 months. Let go of making him ask. 7 years, 10 years, what's the difference. Now that he knows you want marriage, give him the chance to surprise you and make it a happy memory. You want to marry someone - you're looking at the next 40 or more years together.

This is what I would do, I would apologize for being insistent and pushy about the proposal, and say that I didn't mean to take the romance out of it - and then wait for his reply to this, and listen to his feelings without arguing and coming back in my defense. 

Then I would say, I really want you to propose in your own way, I trust you and I know you weren't making me wait to hurt me, you just want it to be really special. 

Then I would mentally let go of it, stop being on edge, focus on being the woman he loves who he can't wait to marry. A woman he wont want to lose. Be happy, vibrant, full of love for him. Trust in him. Let go of any resentment you might have, be the mother for his girls that you always have been. Give him the complete benefit of the doubt, even if deep down you are still worried - don't let that show. Do this without watching the calendar. If your next birthday passes, then I would definitely consider leaving.


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> I haven't seen any mention of whether he stated his intentions when you first got together. Did he say or imply when you first moved in together that he'd eventually marry you? Or did he say he didn't think or know if he'd ever get married again? Or did you just not talk about marriage at all at first?
> 
> Not saying he's in the right if he never promised you anything early on, because he has since and broken those promises - which are really just hurdles he keeps putting up in front of you - and as others have said, he should have the cajones to be honest.
> 
> Bottom line is you have to decide if you're willing stay with someone who very likely will never marry you, or to be alone for awhile until you find someone who really wants to.


Hello all and happy Friday! In the beginning we were crazy in love. As I mentioned before, it was all very fast. We did talk of marriage and even wanting to have a baby. Then over the years it was just living and then last year in December I mentioned that it was "time" and I wanted a ring to secure the relationship and for him to show me that is willing to take it the next step with me. Now, 9 months later, we're here.

The last few months he has mentioned things that he never has before "you're future husband", "what does an engagement party entail?", "where would you want the wedding to be? Big or small?".

Yesterday he was acting super strange. He is open in affection and shows me love in many ways. Communicating is not always his best thing. He tends to shut down. So yesterday I was crazy surprised when he told me “I was thinking today about all of my blessings and I’m so blessed to have you in my life. I’m grateful for you and you mean the world to me and I will never take you for granted". Then he walked up to me and asked “do you trust me?" I said why do you ask? He said “because I live it every day and want to hear it from you." Now again, because he doesn't tend to get emotional that way I was surprised. I guess even a bit weirded out, lol. So not sure what that is all about. 

I do know that one of his good friends wife has just told him that she is leaving him and she actually started to move out yesterday. Maybe my boyfriend hearing that scenario scared him? He is maybe thinking if it can happen to my friend it can happen to me?

I know that he got a big bonus check from work last March and we were talking about finances and I asked what he did with all of the money. He mentioned a few things, with ring being one of them. So again, he's saying he has the ring. Does he have one and is maybe making payments on it? I don't know.

So that is the history with our bit of history. 

I appreciate all of your advice and am taking it to heart and thinking of my plan. This is the most that I've ever thought which is not an easy thing but is a must at this point in my life. This isn't easy but I'm so happy to have all of your support here.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

I'm new here and am dealing with a situation of mental health and physical health issues with my h (Manic depression and several surgical procedures) but I agree with Idun. My h and I were together 11 years before we married. He surprised me and proposed because I was content with us living together without marriage. He has children from a previous marriage and I was happily involved with my nieces and nephews and h's kids. I don't think the time to marriage matters as much as making your point known that you'd like to be married and then let him go. Let him ask, let him do it. If he doesn't and you're not willing to wait, you can make a decision, but proposing is such an important life choice, and a memory that you both will always carry with you, it's wise not to make it an angst-ridden issue. Good luck and keep us posted. Sometimes you just have to be patient and at other times you have to decide if you're being patient or being played. You'll be able to sort out the difference.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

I think that you should give yourself a time limit, if he doesn't propose. In the meantime make your mental preparation for the future. I can tell you are not ready to leave or for this to end. It's just that you have to act for what's in your best interest. Don't become the girl waiting for 10 years for the ring and he breaks up with you to become engage to someone else in 2 months. 

Or maybe you will learn in this time, that, a legal marriage is not that important to you. That you are prepared to live together without the papers. Time will tell. Just figure out what you want and can live with.


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## waiting_forever (Sep 8, 2015)

Hello all - It's been awhile but I wanted to post a quick update! I'M ENGAGED! He popped the question on Christmas! 

I took Idun's advice apologizing for being pushy and insistent and said that I didn't mean to take the romance out of it and then said, I really want you to propose in your own way, I trust you and I know you weren't making me wait to hurt me, you just want it to be really special and never mentioned it again.

....and now here we are! I was totally surprised. Not expecting it at all! 

So for those of you out there who are in long term relationships losing hope, I'm here to tell you to not lose hope. 

Thanks to all of you for the input and support! I may have just had a meltdown and left if you hadn't helped me out! 

Happy Holidays to you all!


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Good luck to you in married life, and just because you're engaged now, don't be a stranger!


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## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

Wow, I feel warm and fuzzy for you I'm so glad it worked out! And the fact that you were genuinely surprised is great for you both. I wish you a long and happy marriage! (and hope the wedding planning isn't too stressful  )


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Congrats, Waiting!


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