# I'm about to create a storm in my life



## TedRabb

Hi all
I have been reading these forums for the past month or so, it has been really helpful (I think) in sorting out issues in my head and getting perspective from a lot of different angles. I am a thinker when it comes to decision making, maybe an over-thinker, so hearing how people deal with different situations has been interesting.

Here’s my story, am looking forward to hearing what the collective wisdom of these boards is. I know anything I do is my decision and I will own whatever the outcome of that is. I don’t know why I’m posting on here, I will cop a hammering from some sides no doubt, but I think it will be therapeutic to tell my story before I take the next step.
I have been married for nearly 20 years and knew my wife for only 2 years before marriage. We married at 30 (me) and 33 (her) respectively. We met while we were both working away from our home countries and we decided to make our life in my home city. Have had 3 beautiful daughters now aged mid to late teens and lived and continue to live a happy family life. Well what’s the problem?

The intimacy and sex in our relationship has pretty much dried up completely, it was never great from the beginning. If I look back on our sex life in particular, I was never the best lover, suffering from some PE but managed to maintain a number of girlfriends in my earlier life by being the best I could be in other ways. In my marriage what with kids and life in general we have both just let our relationship wither on the vine, both emotionally and physically. I think over the past decade or more probably we have had a sexless marriage being less than once a month. My W is going through menopause at the moment so that is a real “excuse”, but before that we were only ever very occasional lovers.

There has only ever been half hearted attempts a few times to try to connect with each other better both emotionally and physically. If I look back to when we met I don’t know if I felt *really really* in love… and looking back I wonder if she was either. She was ready to settle (down) and have kids and I would be a good provider and a good solid husband. I accepted my role, it felt like the right thing to do at the time. I was looking to go back to my home country and settle down myself and she seemed a good fit for that too I suppose.

Now to the bad part… I strayed a bit starting with porn for some time (not that unusual I suppose) and then happy ending massages from about 2 years ago for a while to now being in a full blown affair. I met my OW on a website and we started with just sex every 2 weeks for about 6 months… ,my excuse being I just wanted to see what was out there and do some things before I lost the ability to do it…. You only live once and all that stuff. Then about 3 months ago we both admitted we had feelings for each other.

Anyway this lady is lovely, a bit younger at 34 to my 49 and our sex life together is so far different from what I ever did with my wife that it’s hard to believe. She is married herself but was effectively encouraged/forced into an Open Marriage by her husband because he did not want or could not have a sexual relationship with her. She met me, I was nice and she fell in love with me. The OW is from a country where the husband is the boss and divorcing over there would have been impossible for cultural and family reasons. They have been in my country for 3 years and she has realised now she does not want to and should not have to live in a loveless marriage and be forced to get sexual satisfaction from a string of men she does not feel for. She has told her husband she has met someone she cares about and has realised she can not live like she has been for the past decade. They have a 7 year old son.

My dilemma? I have seen the Garden of Eden (my counsellors words) and the world no longer looks the same. My wife is a nice person, she is a good mother and doesn’t deserve what I have done and am about to do. If I look back to when we met (I hope I am not rewriting history to suit my current wants)… but I don’t know if we had met at 26 would we have got together. We get on OK but there is no deep connection apart from our shared significant child rearing history. No cuddling any more or discussions about ourselves… only family related stuff treated like a business. We don’t do much by ourselves together, sometimes a bike ride or out to dinner. But we don’t have similar hobbies or interests. For example I read news a lot and know what’s going on in the world…she has no interest. 

I did try and make an effort for dinner and intimacy several months ago now but it just followed the same pattern as usual and in fact it felt really awkward for me… maybe because I knew I had feelings for someone else. In bed I satisfied her and then we had sex which didn’t last long and then she is off to sleep. I compare that to the OW where she is hungry for all of me and wants sex as much as she can, she will do whatever it takes to get me ready to go again and again and seems to really enjoy making me feel good and her in turn. In 19 years marriage my wife has never once (memory may be fading) made an effort to get me up and going for round 2… for both our pleasure.

After being with my OW I have come to realise what a great sex life could be… we do role plays, toys, she is willing and wants to try everything. She has been denied a lot in her 20s, uses the internet to learn about sex and has a completely open mind. The things we have done and plan to do together I could not begin to talk about with my wife. In addition even though we come from different cultures she went to a Western school, is well educated and smart and has an interest in what’s going on around her. For better or for worse I feel a real connection with her. Maybe it’s just her want to love being reflected back at me I don’t know. I am aware of limerence and the risk this could all blow up, but what else to do.

I am about to tell my wife that our marriage is in trouble...as a pathway to a separation. We should have talked properly years ago, but we are both similar in that we go with the flow and neither rock the boat. In truth though even if I had been aware of or felt the shortcomings of my marriage that I feel now, I would probably have stuck it out for the kids for some time. I feel now is as good a time as any to bring this to a head.

I don’t plan to tell my W of the OW… it will probably come out eventually, I don’t think I’ll be a good liar. It has only been 3 months since my activities have an emotional aspect, so I think I am doing this as fast as I could. I am really fearful of what it will do to my wife. Emotionally and financially for both of us it will be horrible… but at least there are not young kids to be fought over.

If I look at the whole picture the only thing I am worried about is the fear of the damage I will cause to my wife and also my kids… but I feel it is too late now to try and repair a marriage that in hindsight was not as good as it could be from the beginning. It would be great if she can see the problems we have and is relieved to want to separate… but I don’t think that will happen.

I understand both my W and I should have done more to nurture our relationship… but we didn’t, didn’t know how or couldn’t be bothered, who knows. That’s it, have at it! Do you think I am making the right decision in starting the process to leave my wife?


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## TedRabb

Sorry for the length... that was massive. Perhaps I should have gone to more than 2 counselling sessions. I did get most of that off my chest with the counsellor but it is different putting it into written words.


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## EleGirl

To start with, I deleted your other threads as they needed moderator approval since you are new to TAM. We had a big spam attack recently so TAM's security had to be increased. But this one had already been approved. It's best to start out with only one thread. You will get better input that way.


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## EleGirl

No one can tell you what you should do. Just be aware that only about 3% of affairs ever turn into good, long term relationships. They usually fall apart once the married partner(s) leave their spouse. Why? Because while the affair is going on, it's a fantasy. Neither of you are depending on the other to fill all of your emotional needs. You wife is filling some of them. So the OW only has to fill a small number of your emotional needs. I'm not sure I'd all it the Garden of Eden, but more accurately la-la land. You are deep in the 'infatuation' period of your affair relationship. What's when all the sex causes your brain to over produce things like dopamine, oxytocin and other feel-good, bonding hormones. It's a lot like being hooked on cocaine. The high usually dissipates at about 18-24 months.

You might want to read the book *"Surviving an Affair"* by Dr. Harley. It's written for the betrayed spouse, but it explains the dynamics of an affair pretty well. I think it would help you to understand some of what's going on in your head.

You are about to blow up your life. Your marriage sounds depressing. It's just the lack of sex. It's the entire dynamic that you describe. If you were to actually talk to your wife about your relationship, you might find out that she's as bored and bummed out as you are about it all.

You both failed. You both seem to have just done nothing to make your marriage work. Why do you think that you would be any different in the long-run with the OW from what you are like in your marriage. You have at least 50% responsibility for the failure of your marriage. Do you even know what you need to do to make this relationship with the OW, or any relationship for that matter, any better?

A good relationship takes work, it should be fun and passionate (not a drudgery) but it is work. Getting complacent is what leads to what you have right now. There are two books that I think might help you learn what a good relationship looks like. They will also teach you how to talk to your spouse/partner since you clearly have not idea how to do this. *"Love Busters"* and *"His Needs, Her Needs"*. Read them and do the work that they say to do. Then you will need to talk to the woman in your life (either your wife or your OW if you leave your wife) and ask her to read the books with you and do the work with you. I suggest that you read them first and do the work first on your own so that you learn about yourself and learn the words you need so you can talk to a woman in a way that will build a better relationsihp.


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## BigDigg

Ted - I do have some sympathy for you and your situation however I wonder how much of this is your revisionist history forged from the mind of someone knee deep in a PA/EA. That said at his point it probably doesn't matter. I like your analogy of a vine - this marriage was never cared for (both sides and in many ways) and now is effectively dead. Maybe there's still some root there still clinging to life, but you'd need to first clear all the dead vines first and replant in fertile soil. But honestly maybe it's just dead.

If I were you I'd clear the vines anyways. Tell your wife what you've done and be honorable and separate and prepare for divorce. Focus your discussion with your counselor on yourself and finding/fixing what's broken otherwise your next relationship will be just as bad. Rebuild yourself physically and mentally. Maybe your current affair partner will come along (or not) but consider what 'soil' this one is planted in as well. 

You still have a lot of life left to live but time is moving. Lots of work ahead but best of luck.


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## Taxman

I sympathize sir, however, you are talking about blindsiding your wife. Problematically, I have my doubts as to your knowledge of what is going on inside your wife's head. It appears that there has been a disconnect for awhile, however, this is like falling off a building. The fall isn't the part that kills you, it's the sudden stop. I do not know how one eases into this discussion. Now, I have been around divorce for a number of years, and this disclosure may not cause the storm you anticipate. If she has been as disconnected as you, she may be feeling that plain of lethal flatness that you have described to an extent. If it were me, I would have this discussion gently in a public place so that the discussion is calm, and probably will not escalate. Other than that, there is really nothing we can say here to soften this. Good luck.


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## personofinterest

If you are going to leave, you owe it to her to tell her why. And they why is NOT - we don't have enough sex. They why is: I cheated on you and have feelings for another woman.


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## Mr.Married

If you put the same effort into your new woman that you did your old women you will find your new shiny toy turns into your old woman really fast.
Your current marriage is already dead.

"Just be aware that only about 3% of affairs ever turn into good, long term relationships"

Read that quote again, then read it again, then read it again.

As personofinterst said .....it isn't about the sex......it's about you were both too lazy in your relationship....oh yeah...and then you cheated.

I don't think your current "marriage" has any chance ..... get moving in life .... which is also to say ...start by making yourself a better person to be in a relationship with.


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## rv10flyer

“I don’t plan to tell my W of the OW… it will probably come out eventually, I don’t think I’ll be a good liar.” 

It won’t matter whether you tell her. If she has half of a brain, she will know as there is most always someone else involved when an unfaithful wife or husband wants to separate or divorce. Too late on the liar part, you have been doing very good at that. I would rather have been told the truth from day one. Unfortunately, those that cheat have little integrity.


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## SentHereForAReason

Hmmm. I give you credit for your honesty but I have seen two posters say they sympathize with you in a small way. Sorry but I have no sympathy for your actions and frankly, lack of actions. I have sympathy for the pain that is soon to be inflicted on the people you vowed your life to and sympathy for the future you, with how you will feel and what you are left with once you realize the consequences of your actions that are all based in feeling right now.

Your married situation explained, when you toss aside all of the happy, perfect family pictures on social media, is what most marriages are like or at least go through. The amount of action you have put into the affair speaks to the point of the grass is always greener where you water it. 

I write but what I have come to understand is that no matter what we say to you here is probably going to stick for a few seconds and then the feelings will take over again. I would like to think you have come here to get genuine feedback and advice, I will give you that benefit of the doubt but many in your situation come here looking for validation because of their 'awful' marriages that you were 50% responsible for. What you are feeling with your affair partner and the thoughts and dreams you have are played over and over around the world a million times over and they seem to follow the same script and like I mentioned earlier, later on in the script of this movie is where it turns from a romance film into a tragedy. 

If the affair wasn't enough of a betrayal, on both sides. The most cowardly thing about all of this is how you plan on going about ending your marriage. The way most cheaters do so that the guilt can be shared and the betrayed spouse will wonder what they did wrong and be armed with a small portion of the truth.

There's hardly ever turning back once you mind and heart have gone this far, your mind will now do anything it can to justify the actions, paint the picture of only one path. Tell your wife the truth and give her the decision that is rightfully hers to decide where to go next. You lost that right. 

If you are serious about wanting to get clarity and help. Your first step is to look up limerance on google. Spend a day reading the articles related to it and you will understand how you got where you are today. limerance and feelings fade, the collateral damage will be near everlasting.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

If you are gonna end it with your wife, you may as well end it with your paramour. This is a train wreck type of situation since both relationships will never have any trust to make it work. Or you can divorce your wife and use your paramour for what she is, your sexual outlet. Don't think long term with her, because its doomed.


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## TedRabb

EleGirl said:


> To start with, I deleted your other threads as they needed moderator approval since you are new to TAM. We had a big spam attack recently so TAM's security had to be increased. But this one had already been approved. It's best to start out with only one thread. You will get better input that way.


Thanks for sorting that. I only wanted the one thread but the first one wasn't up after several hours...i thought it got lost in the ether. 😁


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## TedRabb

EleGirl said:


> No one can tell you what you should do. Just be aware that only about 3% of affairs ever turn into good....


Thanks for the thoughtful and long reply. I will check out those book references.

It is tough seeing words like "failure" and "depressing marriage" being thrown around. 

Compared to some of the stories I've read on these forums and viewed on its own i don't think my marriage has been a failure. We created a family and a successful life. Those things will continue but in a different form. There will be pain along the way but I'm aiming for a better relationship for the next part of my life. My wife is not much of a communicator about feelings... nor am i really but i can deal with those when i need to.


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## TedRabb

I didn't post here seeking validation tbh. I know what has been happening is wrong and am seeking to do something about it now.

Posters appear to state with glee the certainty that my future relationship with OW and life in general will be a disaster. 

I know the risks of the ongoing OW relationship... but again, what to do. I notice no one has said they think the marriage is worth saving or working on. My counsellor also didn't press me to do that... all he said was take time to make my decisions. That's a bit sad that the marriage looks so far gone it's not worth bothering with. 

I do plan to live by myself for over 6 months and to try to "start again" with the other woman dating etc. But that just feels like an artificial construct to me.


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## TedRabb

A few posters have said i must be truthful and confess the affair to my wife. 

I know there is reason to do that but whether i confess or not, my wife will still wonder what went wrong or what she did wrong.

I want the OW to be a part of my life in the future and that means in my kids life. I don't want her to be seen as the one that is the home wrecker... that is one good reason to not confess is it not? 

She is not a monster... nor am i... and we have to try and coexist with ex spouses and kids in the future.


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## SentHereForAReason

TedRabb said:


> A few posters have said i must be truthful and confess the affair to my wife.
> 
> I know there is reason to do that but whether i confess or not, my wife will still wonder what went wrong or what she did wrong.
> 
> I want the OW to be a part of my life in the future and that means in my kids life. I don't want her to be seen as the one that is the home wrecker... that is one good reason to not confess is it not?
> 
> She is not a monster... nor am i... and we have to try and coexist with ex spouses and kids in the future.


For some reason you are trying to make this sound virtuous but no matter how you dress up your wordplay here ... The simple truth is that you guys are both homewreckers. 

If it's true love, why the secrecy?


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## FarAwayFuture

Wouldn't it be a bomb.....
"Honey, I want a divorce. I have been cheating on you for X amount of months with my OW."
"Baby, I want the same. I have been cheating on you for X amount of YEARS with my OM."
Karma is a B....


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## personofinterest

FarAwayFuture said:


> Wouldn't it be a bomb.....
> "Honey, I want a divorce. I have been cheating on you for X amount of months with my OW."
> "Baby, I want the same. I have been cheating on you for X amount of YEARS with my OM."
> Karma is a B....


I'm not sure what to say to this RepPill MGTOW presumptuous drivel. Except I have learned not to be surprised.

OP, how do you feel about the choices you have made without your wife or children's knowledge?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

FarAwayFuture said:


> Wouldn't it be a bomb.....
> "Honey, I want a divorce. I have been cheating on you for X amount of months with my OW."
> "Baby, I want the same. I have been cheating on you for X amount of YEARS with my OM."
> Karma is a B....


Well, that would certainly explain why she stopped sleeping with him in the first place.


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## happyhusband0005

TedRabb said:


> I understand both my W and I should have done more to nurture our relationship… but we didn’t, didn’t know how or couldn’t be bothered, who knows. That’s it, have at it! Do you think I am making the right decision in starting the process to leave my wife?


I am going to respond before reading all the other responses since I have a good idea of what that will look like, so I will just give you my 2 cents to be sorted with the rest. 

First as you must now know having a great sex life in a marriage means a lot more than a once a week date night or a monthly intimate discussion. It takes having a intimate and caring relationship every day, communicating and being affectionate as the rule not the exception. 

Your affair relationship will almost definitely fizzle out rapidly once it stops being an affair. Your making essentially the same mistake you made marrying you wife, your going into it for the wrong reason. With the affair you're trying to fill a whole or makeup for missing out on a passionate sexual relationship all these years. 

I think divorce is probably the only option at this point, but the important thing for you is to learn from the mistake and be much more honest with yourself and your partner about your needs and desires.

I do suggest you take a time off from the affair to really look deep down inside yourself and way your options. I think your wife deserves to hear from you what you have come to realize about your desire for a real sex life. Tell her the honest truth about your long lived unhappiness and what you feel is missing from the marriage. She will either be shocked or not shocked at all but at least you will have given her an honest explanation for your frustration and need for more. I'm not telling you now to tell her about the affair as I'm sure others have, I'm telling you to have the discussion you should have had many years ago and see where things go from there.


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## BluesPower

Look, I just want to be straight. I am not validating you, or invalidating you. 

I do disagree with @personofinterest when she says...



personofinterest said:


> If you are going to leave, you owe it to her to tell her why. And the why is NOT - we don't have enough sex. They why is: I cheated on you and have feelings for another woman.


I think the why actually is that you don't have enough sex. 

However, you have handled EVERY SINGLE THING in your marriage wrong, but you just don't want to admit it. 

1) If you were bad at sex, you should have fixed that, maybe your wife would not have lost her attraction to you. 

2) If you had handled #1 better, maybe the sex would not have dried up. 

3) When the sex dried up, you should have tried to work on it instead of letting it die on the vine. That was a super weak move as a man. 

4) You are wrong for cheating. Cheating is a cowards way out of the marriage. What a man should have done is not accept what was happening and left when he could not fix it. 

And look, don't be too stupid with this new girl, because the chances are very good that she wants a sugar daddy for a while until she can figure life out better. Not saying that IS what is happening, I am saying beware. 

Bottom line: If you are going to divorce your wife, for once be a man, tell the truth, do the right thing. 

Take your lumps like a man, it will all come out at some point anyway. 

And I am not saying that your wife is a monster or an angel, I am saying that she is a human being and she deserves the truth and she deserves for you to be a man, for once...


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## Diana7

If you must wreck 2 families then at least be man enough to tell her why, that you are having an affair with a married woman with a small child. You also have 3 children of your own who will all be devastated, probably very angry, and who may well not want to see you again and who can blame them. 

I will never understand why anyone would be interested in a married person who is happy to lie, cheat and deceive their own spouse. I could never trust that person at all, and it likely will not last. 

I for one think that you need to end this affair now. Put as much effort into your marriage as you are into the affair. Put all of your energy into your wife and children and do the right thing. Anything else is completely selfish and cruel. 

Not only are you lying to them all now, but you are planning to lie again about why you want to leave. That's is so cowardly. 
You are just like most cheaters who blame the spouse and think that the new person is so wonderful. Believe me a cheater and home wrecker with no integrity or moral values isn't wonderful at all.


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## aine

What's with all the sympathy for the OP, he has done a vile thing. A decent honorable man does not cheat on his wife period. If your marriage was in trouble, you deal with that openly and transparently with your wife. You make a decision with your wife to work on it or not, you dont go off and **** someone else!
You are now knee deep in a full blown affair and are about to put a nuclear bomb in your family, you deserve all the fallout there is. Your affair gives your marriage no chance at all. YOu are deep in the affair fog and are rewriting your marriage history, it is so evident from what you write. 

How do you know your affair partner was really forced to go out and have sex wth a string of strangers? It could be her version and she could have a long suffering husband at home? A woman who sleeps- with a string of strangers will soon tire of you when you get older. Afterall she is 15 years younger, you will do until the next younger better looking man who is richer comes along. She will want security and has a 7 year old son. I can forsee you being the provider and baby sitter while she goes out and meets other guys when she tires of you. Anyway, I always believe that what goes around comes around. Your poor wife, tell her the whole truth. You will probably also lose those 3 daughters when they find out what their old man has been up to.


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## aine

TedRabb said:


> A few posters have said i must be truthful and confess the affair to my wife.
> 
> I know there is reason to do that but whether i confess or not, my wife will still wonder what went wrong or what she did wrong.
> 
> I want the OW to be a part of my life in the future and that means in my kids life. I don't want her to be seen as the one that is the home wrecker... that is one good reason to not confess is it not?
> 
> She is not a monster... nor am i... and we have to try and coexist with ex spouses and kids in the future.


The fact that you were having an affair with the 'home wrecker' will come out eventually, it always does and the fact that you lied and built a new relationship on a lie doesn't auger well for its future. Anyway your OW wont stay with you long when the excitement of the sneaking around is over, why would she settle with a man 15 years older than her, she seems pretty free sexually, so I guess there are way better men out there for her. She probably just needs her visa, her passport for your country. Think about it.


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## Diana7

aine said:


> What's with all the sympathy for the OP, he has done a vile thing. A decent honorable man does not cheat on his wife period. If your marriage was in trouble, you deal with that openly and transparently with your wife. You make a decision with your wife to work on it or not, you dont go off and **** someone else!
> You are now knee deep in a full blown affair and are about to put a nuclear bomb in your family, you deserve all the fallout there is. Your affair gives your marriage no chance at all. YOu are deep in the affair fog and are rewriting your marriage history, it is so evident from what you write.
> 
> How do you know your affair partner was really forced to go out and have sex wth a string of strangers? It could be her version and she could have a long suffering husband at home? A woman who sleeps- with a string of strangers will soon tire of you when you get older. Afterall she is 15 years younger, you will do until the next younger better looking man who is richer comes along. She will want security and has a 7 year old son. I can forsee you being the provider and baby sitter while she goes out and meets other guys when she tires of you. Anyway, I always believe that what goes around comes around. Your poor wife, tell her the whole truth. You will probably also lose those 3 daughters when they find out what their old man has been up to.


I agree. For her to claim that she was 'forced' to go out and cheat with many men just shows her lack of integrity and rock bottom moral values. She CHOOSE to. 

Op have you been tested for Std's? She will probably have at least one. You do realise that all who have affairs lie about their spouses right? They all blame their spouses.


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## EleGirl

TedRabb said:


> I didn't post here seeking validation tbh. I know what has been happening is wrong and am seeking to do something about it now.


Yes it's wrong. But what you are talking about doing it not to put things right. Instead you are seeking to do something that is going to hurt a lot of people, mainly your wife and children. I do hope that after this your wife will have a chance to find a man who loves her and who can be a good stepfather to your children.



TedRabb said:


> Posters appear to state with glee the certainty that my future relationship with OW and life in general will be a disaster.


It's not glee. Instead it's that we are trying to warn you. We've had so many people come back after the affair ends, banging their heads in agony because they gave up a marriage and family that could have been fixed for their AP, only to have all disappear. We are warning you to try to help you.



TedRabb said:


> I know the risks of the ongoing OW relationship... but again, what to do. I notice no one has said they think the marriage is worth saving or working on. My counsellor also didn't press me to do that... all he said was take time to make my decisions. That's a bit sad that the marriage looks so far gone it's not worth bothering with.


Your marriage can be fixed if you and your wife will work on it. You have zero interest in trying to fix your marriage. Why bother.

Now the books I suggested you read could help you fix your marriage if that's what you want to do. But you will need to decide what you want. You could start the changes unilaterally and over time see if your wife would join you in rebuilding your marriage into a stronger one that is filled with passion. But you have to decide this is the avenue you want to take. 

As long as there is an OW in the picture, your marriage has zero chance.



TedRabb said:


> I do plan to live by myself for over 6 months and to try to "start again" with the other woman dating etc. But that just feels like an artificial construct to me.


Yes it's artificial. You cannot erase what's happened thus far. "Start again" dating her means that you think you are going to erase your history with her. Cannot be done.


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## TedRabb

Hmmm... all pretty brutal comments. I'll reply to some when I get a moment.


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## TedRabb

FarAwayFuture said:


> Wouldn't it be a bomb.....
> "Honey, I want a divorce. I have been cheating on you for X amount of months with my OW."
> "Baby, I want the same. I have been cheating on you for X amount of YEARS with my OM."
> Karma is a B....


Note sure how that would be Karma? I could understand it and it would make the situation easier for me at least.

That is part of how I know it is over with my wife. The thought of her being with someone else does not really trouble me, the idea of that would have caused me untold angst earlier in my marriage. I do hope that my wife finds someone she can be happy with. That is part of my guilt... that I am leaving her and even though she does not have a physical or close emotional relationship with me we do at least provide the foundation for each others lives.


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## sokillme

So you got bored in your sexless marriage (partly your fault as you say) and instead of dealing it with the women you loved at the time and whom you made vows to, you went to prostitutes. If that didn't destroy any loyalty you had left to your marriage you have now had a typical affair with some sketchy chick who tells you she has an open marriage. (Of course she does! ) Oh and her husband is abusive. 

Now you are going to let your wife and kids know you destroyed your marriage and their lives at least for the foreseeable future. 

I don't think this is going to work out the way you think. Good luck though.

The most honorable (if you can call any of this honorable under the circumstances) thing you can do at this point is be honest with her at least as "honest" as you seem to be with yourself. From your "perception" of reality.


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## TedRabb

stillfightingforus said:


> If it's true love, why the secrecy?


 I don't know if it's true love, I hope it is. I hope the OW is not just feeling limerence.

The secrecy?... How could it not be secret? True love or not it was always going to be secret....I know what I did was wrong though.


----------



## sokillme

I suspect this is going to be you in a few years.


----------



## TedRabb

personofinterest said:


> I'm not sure what to say to this RepPill MGTOW presumptuous drivel. Except I have learned not to be surprised.
> 
> OP, how do you feel about the choices you have made without your wife or children's knowledge?


Not sure my children are emotionally mature enough to deal with their parent's marriage matters!
Of course I am not proud of my choices...right now thought it is hard to say I regret them. If I didn't I may still be existing in an unsatisfying marriage...again, I accept my part of the fault in the marriage issues.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

One thing I have found out about cheaters over the past year that's common with most and pretty damn ironic is how each cheater thinks they are different, there situation is different, this time it's different ... All of us just don't understand. The irony is, as different as they think they are, they are just another statistic cut from the same cloth with the same script. I was going to write a longer post but this says it better than I ever could.

https://www.chumplady.com/2018/08/cheater-exceptionalism/


----------



## TedRabb

happyhusband0005 said:


> I am going to respond before reading all the other responses since I have a good idea of what that will look like, so I will just give you my 2 cents to be sorted with the rest.
> 
> First as you must now know having a great sex life in a marriage means a lot more than a once a week date night or a monthly intimate discussion. It takes having a intimate and caring relationship every day, communicating and being affectionate as the rule not the exception.
> 
> Your affair relationship will almost definitely fizzle out rapidly once it stops being an affair. Your making essentially the same mistake you made marrying you wife, your going into it for the wrong reason. With the affair you're trying to fill a whole or makeup for missing out on a passionate sexual relationship all these years.
> 
> I think divorce is probably the only option at this point, but the important thing for you is to learn from the mistake and be much more honest with yourself and your partner about your needs and desires.
> 
> I do suggest you take a time off from the affair to really look deep down inside yourself and way your options. I think your wife deserves to hear from you what you have come to realize about your desire for a real sex life. Tell her the honest truth about your long lived unhappiness and what you feel is missing from the marriage. She will either be shocked or not shocked at all but at least you will have given her an honest explanation for your frustration and need for more. I'm not telling you now to tell her about the affair as I'm sure others have, I'm telling you to have the discussion you should have had many years ago and see where things go from there.


I have learned about the importance of a good sex life as part of a healthy marriage, partially through reading these and other forums.
I do plan to do as you say and have that discussion about the need for sex and connection with my wife... who knows where that talk will go.


----------



## TedRabb

Diana7 said:


> If you must wreck 2 families then at least be man enough to tell her why, that you are having an affair with a married woman with a small child. You also have 3 children of your own who will all be devastated, probably very angry, and who may well not want to see you again and who can blame them.
> _ Not sure why my kids won't want to see me again. I'm not divorcing them. Sure there will be some issues but I hope my actions as a father over many years have some value._
> I will never understand why anyone would be interested in a married person who is happy to lie, cheat and deceive their own spouse. I could never trust that person at all, and it likely will not last.
> 
> I for one think that you need to end this affair now. Put as much effort into your marriage as you are into the affair. Put all of your energy into your wife and children and do the right thing. Anything else is completely selfish and cruel.
> 
> Not only are you lying to them all now, but you are planning to lie again about why you want to leave. That's is so cowardly.
> _ Won't confessing the affair just be more hurtful now? The affair is the symptom not the cause. Apart from me getting more punishment for my wrongs I don't see what else is to be gained overall in telling of the affair now. _
> You are just like most cheaters who blame the spouse and think that the new person is so wonderful. Believe me a cheater and home wrecker with no integrity or moral values isn't wonderful at all.
> _I do not blame my wife, don't think I have said that anywhere. Sure things are not good in the bedroom but there is no "blame" there. I also don't think I should try to make her be something she is not. Again, that does not excuse my affair._


----------



## TedRabb

sokillme said:


> I suspect this is going to be you in a few years.


Thats what I feel like now after reading this thread


----------



## RoseAglow

Your girls are "mid to late teens"- you have to know that they are going to figure it all out. You are REALLY in some deep fog if you think somehow they aren't going to put it all together.

Your years of parenting is no guarantee that they will pull behind you; they may get very protective of your wife, especially if you haven't had a bad marriage. My FIL has been with his AP for over twenty years, after a 20 year, contentious marriage; my SIL still won't put a picture of him in her house, even though she has pics of other friends and family members, kids, pets, etc. She even gets along (now) with her FIL and his now wife, but she is very protective of her mom. 

I also find it sadly ironic that you fight back at hearing that your marriage has failed. You are about to divorce your wife of twenty years, hurting her and tearing apart your daughters' family. You are a man who has paid women for sexual acts, rather than either attempt to make things better or be courageous enough to leave on your own. You surely don't consider your marriage a success, do you?

I think you have some strong delusions going on at this point in time. I'm glad you're here; I think it will help you to read other threads in Infidelity to see what you're doing to your family (even if they don't know about it yet.)


----------



## TedRabb

stillfightingforus said:


> One thing I have found out about cheaters over the past year that's common with most and pretty damn ironic is how each cheater thinks they are different, there situation is different, this time it's different ... All of us just don't understand. The irony is, as different as they think they are, they are just another statistic cut from the same cloth with the same script. I was going to write a longer post but this says it better than I ever could.


What a pile of crap article. I don't think I'm exceptional or different, I'm just one of many ever since monogamy was invented. Don't get me wrong I think monogamy is good and the best way for society to be.
Also, yes leave a cheater if that is the right thing to do, I don't think I would be able to accept a cheater either... I'm not asking anyone to.

I think it would be useful if members on this forum had a tag on their user profile to describe their history.

Eg. mine would be "Male Cheater still married", others might be "Male/Female Cheater now re-partnered", "Male/Female cheater left M still single", "Male/Female cheater now reconciled", "Honourable Wife/Husband left marriage", "Jilted Wife/Husband now re-partnered", "Jilted Wife/Husband now reconciled", "Jilted Wife/Husband still single", etc etc. 

You get the idea... just to see what context someones comments come from. It would be nice to see the background of all of the advice givers and judgers out there.


----------



## TedRabb

RoseAglow said:


> Your girls are "mid to late teens"- you have to know that they are going to figure it all out. You are REALLY in some deep fog if you think somehow they aren't going to put it all together.
> 
> Your years of parenting is no guarantee that they will pull behind you; they may get very protective of your wife, especially if you haven't had a bad marriage. My FIL has been with his AP for over twenty years, after a 20 year, contentious marriage; my SIL still won't put a picture of him in her house, even though she has pics of other friends and family members, kids, pets, etc. She even gets along (now) with her FIL and his now wife, but she is very protective of her mom.
> 
> I also find it sadly ironic that you fight back at hearing that your marriage has failed. You are about to divorce your wife of twenty years, hurting her and tearing apart your daughters' family. You are a man who has paid women for sexual acts, rather than either attempt to make things better or be courageous enough to leave on your own. You surely don't consider your marriage a success, do you?
> 
> I think you have some strong delusions going on at this point in time. I'm glad you're here; I think it will help you to read other threads in Infidelity to see what you're doing to your family (even if they don't know about it yet.)


Thanks for your message. Yes I have read an awful lot of the threads on most of these sub-forums, it has helped me decide that I need to leave/bring it to a head. And I know there is likely massive fallout to come. But what else? go back to a fake situation in my marriage. I don't want to work on it with my wife. I feel like what I've done and what I've experienced with another it would never be successful if I was to attempt to "work on it".
I guess I'm not fighting back about it being a failed marriage when all is said and done but it grates to hear it said like that. Maybe I've just had a successful family raising exercise for near 20 years that will now have a doubtful conclusion. It is up to me to make it be the best it can be from now on.


----------



## sokillme

TedRabb said:


> Thats what I feel like now after reading this thread


Wait till your daughters find out.

Or when you find out your girlfriend has been lying to you all this time.


----------



## sokillme

RoseAglow said:


> Your girls are "mid to late teens"- you have to know that they are going to figure it all out. You are REALLY in some deep fog if you think somehow they aren't going to put it all together.
> 
> Your years of parenting is no guarantee that they will pull behind you; they may get very protective of your wife, especially if you haven't had a bad marriage. My FIL has been with his AP for over twenty years, after a 20 year, contentious marriage; my SIL still won't put a picture of him in her house, even though she has pics of other friends and family members, kids, pets, etc. She even gets along (now) with her FIL and his now wife, but she is very protective of her mom.
> 
> I also find it sadly ironic that you fight back at hearing that your marriage has failed. You are about to divorce your wife of twenty years, hurting her and tearing apart your daughters' family. You are a man who has paid women for sexual acts, rather than either attempt to make things better or be courageous enough to leave on your own. You surely don't consider your marriage a success, do you?
> 
> I think you have some strong delusions going on at this point in time. I'm glad you're here; I think it will help you to read other threads in Infidelity to see what you're doing to your family (even if they don't know about it yet.)


Not to mention if it causes them trouble with men,or the first time they get cheated on which most people do, what do you think their second thought will be. My mind went to my cheating father, and what and ******* he was to my mom. How I never understood the depth until that very moment. Eye opening indeed.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

TedRabb said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing I have found out about cheaters over the past year that's common with most and pretty damn ironic is how each cheater thinks they are different, there situation is different, this time it's different ... All of us just don't understand. The irony is, as different as they think they are, they are just another statistic cut from the same cloth with the same script. I was going to write a longer post but this says it better than I ever could.
> 
> 
> 
> What a pile of crap article. I don't think I'm exceptional or different, I'm just one of many ever since monogamy was invented. Don't get me wrong I think monogamy is good and the best way for society to be.
> Also, yes leave a cheater if that is the right thing to do, I don't think I would be able to accept a cheater either... I'm not asking anyone to.
> 
> I think it would be useful if members on this forum had a tag on their user profile to describe their history.
> 
> Eg. mine would be "Male Cheater still married", others might be "Male/Female Cheater now re-partnered", "Male/Female cheater left M still single", "Male/Female cheater now reconciled", "Honourable Wife/Husband left marriage", "Jilted Wife/Husband now re-partnered", "Jilted Wife/Husband now reconciled", "Jilted Wife/Husband still single", etc etc.
> 
> You get the idea... just to see what context someones comments come from. It would be nice to see the background of all of the advice givers and judgers out there.
Click to expand...

You don't think you could accept a cheater? Well hate to break it to you bud ... Your affair partner is single? Oh right, she's married and a cheater too. 

And you want the judgers to put descriptors in their profile so you can ... Judge them as well, awesome!


----------



## TedRabb

sokillme said:


> Not to mention if it causes them trouble with men,or the first time they get cheated on which most people do, what do you think their second thought will be. My mind went to my cheating father, and what and ******* he was to my mom. How I never understood the depth until that very moment. Eye opening indeed.


So is that not a reason to try and keep the affair secret? Bottom line is they will likely find out anyway.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Maybe I missed it. Is she married too?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Maybe I missed it. Is she married too?


Yes and OP is her KISA.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

You conveniently skipped over the most important part of Diana's post. Not only are you cheating, you're also hitching your cart to another cheater. Why would you want to do that? Shes already proven shes not trustworthy. But of course, since you've conveniently rationalized your own cheating, I guess it's natural to justify her cheating as well... and maintain the delusion that somehow it'll be different with you.

It never ceases to amaze me how cheaters who cheat with other cheaters end up all shocked when their cheating partners cheat on them. Really? You couldn't see that coming? As you said yourself; you're not special.

Meanwhile, you abandoned and devastated a faithful woman en route to the mess you made.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

stillfightingforus said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I missed it. Is she married too?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and OP is her KISA.
Click to expand...

My question for OP is why he would ever trust her to not cheat on him? The limerance will wear off eventually, real life will set in and she may get bored, get an itch that another man will gladly scratch. I just dont see how you could ever trust a woman like this since your foundation is all built on lies. 

This can of course go the other way since you are a cheater too but if I were in your shoes, this would be my thought process.


----------



## EleGirl

TedRabb said:


> Thanks for your message. Yes I have read an awful lot of the threads on most of these sub-forums, it has helped me decide that I need to leave/bring it to a head. And I know there is likely massive fallout to come. But what else? go back to a fake situation in my marriage. I don't want to work on it with my wife. I feel like what I've done and what I've experienced with another it would never be successful if I was to attempt to "work on it".
> I guess I'm not fighting back about it being a failed marriage when all is said and done but it grates to hear it said like that. Maybe I've just had a successful family raising exercise for near 20 years that will now have a doubtful conclusion. *It is up to me to make it be the best it can be from now on*.


Remember that you are only part of the equation in your family. You only have control over yourself. You cannot make it be the best because your wife has a much say in how this goes forward as you do. Then there are your children. While divorce is sometimes the only reasonable option, it usually causes the children emotional harm. It's like choosing which poison is the least harmful for your children... you staying with your wife in a loveless or you setting out on a new life that may or may not include the OW.

The most compelling reason for you telling your wife about your affair is that she has the right to know what is going on in her life. You have taken that away from her. She has the right to make her own choices based on the facts. By you not telling her the facts, she will be making choices that do not fit reality.

My description of it from my own life is that it's like living with poltergeists. You now that there is something awful there but you cannot see them and so you don't know exactly what it is you are dealing with. That's your wife's reality now.

Eventually your wife and your children will figure out that you have been cheating. It will harm your relationship with your children. I've seen this play out so many times.


----------



## EleGirl

@TedRabb

So when are you going to file for divorce? When will the OW file for divorce?

Out of curiosity, who earns more you or her husband? Is the difference significant?

Does the OW have children?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

As for telling your wife the truth of your affair. In my situation, had my XW just divorced me and I never found out about her affairs, I'd have had a hard time accepting it and not blaming myself. After finding out there were affairs, I wanted nothing to do with her and didn't have any qualms about ending it. In my case, infidelity kind of severed the marriage, where there was no going back...


----------



## TedRabb

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My question for OP is why he would ever trust her to not cheat on him? The limerance will wear off eventually, real life will set in and she may get bored, get an itch that another man will gladly scratch. I just dont see how you could ever trust a woman like this since your foundation is all built on lies.
> 
> This can of course go the other way since you are a cheater too but if I were in your shoes, this would be my thought process.


I think I explained in my OP about the OW situation. Taking her at her word... she is not a cheater and never has been. She tried to make a love marriage work in a culture where arranged marriages are the norm. Unfortunately it backfired on her and she was stuck with a husband that could not (/would not) be intimate and emotional and then he gave her the permission to have physical relations with other men. That is not cheating. After many years of this, being in a western country where divorce is at least possible, meeting me, I guess she has come to the conclusion that she will go down the divorce path.

I know there are no guarantees for the future for each of us. I have tried to tell her if she leaves it is of her own accord for her reasons and I will be the same. For my part I hope she will be there for me at the other end. If she is not then I will live with that, but right now I still don't think I would look back and wish I stayed with my wife. Maybe if I get to 70 and am lonely and broken then I will think that. That's not a reason to stay together now though.

I am worried about limerence (not the obsessive type tho) on her behalf also, I recognise that in some of how she interacts with me. I have asked her straight out if she thinks she is wanting to be "rescued" from her marriage. It made her think and we talked about it later. She is adamant it is love and she wants to be with me. Time will tell, it would be nice if we could all know the future but we can't... we do make our future though.


----------



## TedRabb

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> As for telling your wife the truth of your affair. In my situation, had my XW just divorced me and I never found out about her affairs, I'd have had a hard time accepting it and not blaming myself. After finding out there were affairs, I wanted nothing to do with her and didn't have any qualms about ending it. In my case, infidelity kind of severed the marriage, where there was no going back...


Hmmm, so it will make it more certain to her that it is over, not cause her to have unrealistic hope. 

Thanks for your input


----------



## TedRabb

EleGirl said:


> @TedRabb
> 
> So when are you going to file for divorce? When will the OW file for divorce?
> 
> Out of curiosity, who earns more you or her husband? Is the difference significant?
> 
> Does the OW have children?


I don't know when I will... I need to speak to my wife first. I want to tell her that I think there is a problem and see what happens after that. I can't just drop a bomb on her with no warning.

Re: the OW she has told her husband she wants to end their sham marriage. He is not happy but slowly accepting. I think he just thought his wife (the OW) would live a lifetime in a marriage that was a fake and they just did there own things no questions asked with no love anywhere to be seen.

Don't know what he earns but probably I earn more now. He has potential to earn more in his career and comes from a wealthy family. The OW is very smart, works in the medical field and with some more study to get local quals can have a very nice career in this country. 

I have told the OW that my divorce will damage me significantly financially. I have thought seriously about those consequences... but again don't really know how that will turn out.


----------



## EleGirl

TedRabb said:


> I think I explained in my OP about the OW situation. Taking her at her word... she is not a cheater and never has been. She tried to make a love marriage work in a culture where arranged marriages are the norm. Unfortunately it backfired on her and she was stuck with a husband that could not (/would not) be intimate and emotional and then he gave her the permission to have physical relations with other men. That is not cheating. *After many years of this,* being in a western country where divorce is at least possible, meeting me, I guess she has come to the conclusion that she will go down the divorce path.
> 
> I know there are no guarantees for the future for each of us. I have tried to tell her if she leaves it is of her own accord for her reasons and I will be the same. For my part I hope she will be there for me at the other end. If she is not then I will live with that, but right now I still don't think I would look back and wish I stayed with my wife. Maybe if I get to 70 and am lonely and broken then I will think that. That's not a reason to stay together now though.
> 
> I am worried about limerence (not the obsessive type tho) on her behalf also, I recognise that in some of how she interacts with me. I have asked her straight out if she thinks she is wanting to be "rescued" from her marriage. It made her think and we talked about it later. She is adamant it is love and she wants to be with me. Time will tell, it would be nice if we could all know the future but we can't... we do make our future though.


Could you clarify something? It sounds like she claims to have the go-ahead to have affairs from her husband for years. Did she have sexual relationships with other men before she started the affair with you?


----------



## EleGirl

Does your wife work?


----------



## TedRabb

Yes she had other relationships before me. But i've been told they were sex only or for other reasons did not progress past sex only.
Yes my wife works... almost full time but doesn't earn as much as me.


----------



## TedRabb

We both did not intend to develop feelings for our partners...we went 6 or so months before we admitted feelings.

I think I wanted a connection of sorts as well as the sex and that was my downfall... letting any feelings creep in. She was just used to having sex for the physical side but I talked and wanted to know about her and it went from there.


----------



## TedRabb

stillfightingforus said:


> You don't think you could accept a cheater? Well hate to break it to you bud ... Your affair partner is single? Oh right, she's married and a cheater too.
> 
> And you want the judgers to put descriptors in their profile so you can ... Judge them as well, awesome!


I don't want to judge the judgers, I just want to know if anything in their past is clouding their objectivity. I've put all my info on the table to be advised and judged, why not know who is making the comments?


----------



## EleGirl

@TedRabb

If you want to leave your wife, leave her. But do it because you do not want to, or cannot, live any longer in a marriage that is basically sexless and lacking in passion. And do it in a way that leaves your wife and children the least hurt as possible.

I get it, I left a marriage that was sexless (his doing) and in which we had nothing anymore between us. I left because I wanted more out of life than that. I would rather be by myself than live like that with someone.

It sounds like your affair is what's called an exit affair. The affair lights a fire under you to wake you up to life. But going forward you cannot depend on the affair to do this long term. You cannot even depend on the OW to be there for you long term.

So what are you doing to change yourself to make sure that you don't just survive a divorce, but flourish and bring more into your life and the lives of your children? The affair is not the answer. Talk about what you are doing for yourself and for your children to better all of you.


----------



## Vinnydee

Married 46 years here and my wife agrees with me that had we remained monogamous we would have been divorced years ago. It is a long story but short version is that we tried a wife swap, a foursome, some soft swinging and then some FFM threesomes before settling in with my wife's best friend who turned out to be bi and so did my wife. They both repressed it, but that is probably why they were so close due to the sexual attraction that neither of them dared to show. In our day that had serious consequences.

So we all had some sexual variety in a safe way playing with others as a couple. Never any jealousy since we knew the difference between sex and making love. One is about giving and getting pleasure while the other was about physically expressing love. However, even threesome get boring after the first thousand so we explored every fetish we could find. We did crazy things like sex in limos, hotel pools, having the two girls making out when room service was setting up our table, nude beaches, sex in public places, etc.. We kept our sex life interesting and when monogamy is not a road block, Inna Gadda Da Vida baby.

Talk to her. Try fetish play.. Hire a limo and have sex in the back. Find a secluded spot in public for some oral sex. One of our favorites was for my wife to dress sexy and sit at a bar. I would watch from a distance as guys hit on her. If they were polite and nice she would talk to them and let them buy her drinks. She wore her wedding band and told them that she was waiting for her husband to meet her in an hour. That did not scare some of the men away. She flirted with the guys. If she felt uncomfortable she gave me a signal and I swooped in and thanked the guy for keeping my wife company and bought him a drink or two as thanks. I only had a problem once when a drunk guy told me to let my wife decide if she wanted to stay or leave with me. I knocked him to the ground and we left. Other than that it was fun to see guy hit on my wife and a great ego boost to her. 

I am not suggesting you do what we did as we were wild and crazy. The point is to place your marriage above all else, even monogamy and if you do not want to be monogamous and your wife does, you have a problem. Some wives will let their husband have affairs as long as they are discrete and place the wife and marriage first. In our lifestyle we met lots of married couples who were non monogamous, many who we never suspected due them having kids and not being overtly sexy in public.

What usually happens is that the spouse will keep having the affair hoping to get caught so that he or she is forced to do what they are afraid to do, divorce, alimony an child support. That is too much of a penalty to have mistress on the side for my taste. We preferred what is called ethical non monogamy. You cannot cheat if there is no rule or expectation against it. Good luck.


----------



## TedRabb

EleGirl said:


> @TedRabb
> 
> If you want to leave your wife, leave her. But do it because you do not want to, or cannot, live any longer in a marriage that is basically sexless and lacking in passion. And do it in a way that leaves your wife and children the least hurt as possible.
> 
> I get it, I left a marriage that was sexless (his doing) and in which we had nothing anymore between us. I left because I wanted more out of life than that. I would rather be by myself than live like that with someone.
> 
> It sounds like your affair is what's called an exit affair. The affair lights a fire under you to wake you up to life. But going forward you cannot depend on the affair to do this long term. You cannot even depend on the OW to be there for you long term.
> 
> So what are you doing to change yourself to make sure that you don't just survive a divorce, but flourish and bring more into your life and the lives of your children? The affair is not the answer. Talk about what you are doing for yourself and for your children to better all of you.


I agree with all of that, you have described what I feel where I am at very well.

About being better in the future, I plan to communicate, love, be emotionally available always. Basically learn from my shortcomings. I think if I end up with the OW she will demand more of me than my wife and will communicate to me, she is a much more direct person.
For my kids I will double my efforts to let them know they are loved and special and whether their mother and I are together or not does not change the way I feel about them.

Thanks for your post.


----------



## TedRabb

@Vinnydee

I want to be monogamous. As far as my wife goes (to my knowledge), if you and your lifestyle is at a 9.5/10, she/we are at less than 0.5/10. We are so far removed from what I do even with the OW that it is not funny. That's why I can't just turn my back on what I have enjoyed over the past months. If I was to pull some of the stuff on my wife that the OW wants me for she would think I had been abducted by aliens.

Those ideas about exploring everything about sex and sexuality as you seem to have done is more up the alley of the OW and we may end up doing some of those things to make sure we keep the physical part of the relationship exciting.


----------



## arbitrator

*Late to the party here but: Was intensive marriage counseling or sexual therapy ever an option with your soon-to-be-ex-wife?

Why or why not?*


----------



## aine

TedRabb said:


> I agree with all of that, you have described what I feel where I am at very well.
> 
> About being better in the future, I plan to communicate, love, be emotionally available always. Basically learn from my shortcomings. I think if I end up with the OW she will demand more of me than my wife and will communicate to me, she is a much more direct person.
> For my kids I will double my efforts to let them know they are loved and special and whether their mother and I are together or not does not change the way I feel about them.
> 
> Thanks for your post.


Ted, you want to be all those things, you plan to do all those things? Your marriage would not be in the state it is if you had done those things all along. It is very very difficult for a person to change who they are without lots of therapy and consistent effort. Once the rosiness of your affair wears off, you will be left with the old you and nothing will have changed except that you have dumped your marriage and family. I seriously doubt your new attractive OW will settle for what you gave your wife all those years, she does not sound the type.
As people have already pointed out to you if you water your garden and tend to it, it grows, what makes you think you will suddenly become a fantastic gardener. Your relationship with OW is based on sex, lust, etc, it won't last. Real relationships take effort, pain, sacrifice. Sorry, but you do not strike me as the person to be all that.

The best thing you could do now is
1. Come clean with your wife about everything, she will make the decision for you
2. Leave the OW
3. Work on yourself and become a better man, you can only find happiness in yourself, sex cannot be the only thing


----------



## aine

think I explained in my OP about the OW situation. Taking her at her word... she is not a cheater and never has been. She tried to make a love marriage work in a culture where arranged marriages are the norm. Unfortunately it backfired on her and she was stuck with a husband that could not (/would not) be intimate and emotional and then he gave her the permission to have physical relations with other men. That is not cheating. After many years of this, being in a western country where divorce is at least possible, meeting me, I guess she has come to the conclusion that she will go down the divorce path.

This is what she told you. I know the cultures with arranged marriages, in fact my H comes from such a culture and I can guarantee you their women (regardless of the state of the marriage) would not go out and sleep with every man she could find. I also find it very very hard to believe that a man from said culture would give carte blanche to his still married to him wife to sleep with whomever. I think you are being taken for a ride, literally and figuratively.


----------



## Diana7

aine said:


> think I explained in my OP about the OW situation. Taking her at her word... she is not a cheater and never has been. She tried to make a love marriage work in a culture where arranged marriages are the norm. Unfortunately it backfired on her and she was stuck with a husband that could not (/would not) be intimate and emotional and then he gave her the permission to have physical relations with other men. That is not cheating. After many years of this, being in a western country where divorce is at least possible, meeting me, I guess she has come to the conclusion that she will go down the divorce path.
> 
> This is what she told you. I know the cultures with arranged marriages, in fact my H comes from such a culture and I can guarantee you their women (regardless of the state of the marriage) would not go out and sleep with every man she could find. I also find it very very hard to believe that a man from said culture would give carte blanche to his still married to him wife to sleep with whomever. I think you are being taken for a ride, literally and figuratively.


Of course she is cheating, she is having sex with another women's husband. Even IF her husband gave his permission, (which I doubt) its still adultery and the fact that she has slept with many men while married shows what sort of woman she is. 
Please get tested for Stds'. 

You are both home wreckers and adulterers.


----------



## TedRabb

arbitrator said:


> *Late to the party here but: Was intensive marriage counseling or sexual therapy ever an option with your soon-to-be-ex-wife?
> 
> Why or why not?*


It was not but should probably have been many years ago. I think the marriage is too late to be helped. I just don't feel physically we could ever get to where I know a sex life can be. The sex was never that good (me at fault at least 50%) and the connection between us I think was never like a deep love.

We would have to get over 10-15 years of years of lack of closeness, sexual boredom and my infidelity. That sounds very very hard to me. Also... I just don't fancy her anymore. BTW my wife is petite (moreso than the OW), good looking, good figure for her age, of all of our friend she scrubs up very well.


----------



## TedRabb

aine said:


> As people have already pointed out to you if you water your garden and tend to it, it grows, what makes you think you will suddenly become a fantastic gardener. Your relationship with OW is based on sex, lust, etc, it won't last. Real relationships take effort, pain, sacrifice. Sorry, but you do not strike me as the person to be all that.


:scratchhead:

Thanks for unqualified character appraisal


----------



## Diana7

So you are going to leave her but you aren't man enough to tell her why. What a coward. Do you honestly think that leaving her isn't going to devastate her anyway? And your children? At least if you tell her why she will have a reason. Otherwise she will not know and that can even be worse. 

You are deluded if you think that your children will not react badly to their father leaving them and may not even want to see you. Lying to them will make it even worse. 

A cheat and a coward. You are a married man with children yet you are acting like an immature, immoral, selfish person. Having an affair with another immature, immoral selfish person. 

You are heading for a train wreck.


----------



## TedRabb

aine said:


> think I explained in my OP about the OW situation. Taking her at her word... she is not a cheater and never has been. She tried to make a love marriage work in a culture where arranged marriages are the norm. Unfortunately it backfired on her and she was stuck with a husband that could not (/would not) be intimate and emotional and then he gave her the permission to have physical relations with other men. That is not cheating. After many years of this, being in a western country where divorce is at least possible, meeting me, I guess she has come to the conclusion that she will go down the divorce path.
> 
> This is what she told you. I know the cultures with arranged marriages, in fact my H comes from such a culture and I can guarantee you their women (regardless of the state of the marriage) would not go out and sleep with every man she could find. I also find it very very hard to believe that a man from said culture would give carte blanche to his still married to him wife to sleep with whomever. I think you are being taken for a ride, literally and figuratively.


I did not say she went and slept with "every man she could find". This sort of comment betrays where your head is at in these matters and shows that your comments lack credibility and your "guarantee" is not worth the paper it is written on. What does it matter how many men it might be? Over a period of more than 5 years that number could be a few or could be a few more than a few.


----------



## Diana7

TedRabb said:


> It was not but should probably have been many years ago. I think the marriage is too late to be helped. I just don't feel physically we could ever get to where I know a sex life can be. The sex was never that good (me at fault at least 50%) and the connection between us I think was never like a deep love.
> 
> We would have to get over 10-15 years of years of lack of closeness, sexual boredom and my infidelity. That sounds very very hard to me. Also... I just don't fancy her anymore. BTW my wife is petite (moreso than the OW), good looking, good figure for her age, of all of our friend she scrubs up very well.


Firstly, its never too late to work on a marriage and make it good. Secondly you are mistaking the lust you feel in the affair for real love, its not. Thirdly did you mean the vows you made to your wife? Are you prepared to put your children before your sordid affair? Forthy being that your affair partner has had sex with multiple men, have you or she been tested for std's?. They are rife now and if you are still occasionally having sex with your wife, you may well have passed one on to her. Not all of them show symptoms.


----------



## Diana7

TedRabb said:


> I did not say she went and slept with "every man she could find". This sort of comment betrays where your head is at in these matters and shows that your comments lack credibility and your "guarantee" is not worth the paper it is written on. What does it matter how many men it might be? Over a period of more than 5 years that number could be a few or could be a few more than a few.


you actually said 'and be forced to get sexual satisfaction from a string of men she does not feel for'. 

Are you ok with being with a woman who choose to have sex with a string of men she thought nothing of while married AND with a small child? Also who is having an affair with another woman's husband? Who clearly has no integrity or moral values? Who is fine with wrecking 2 families and deeply hurting 4 children?


----------



## TedRabb

Diana7 said:


> you actually said 'and be forced to get sexual satisfaction from a string of men she does not feel for'.
> 
> Are you ok with being with a woman who choose to have sex with a string of men she thought nothing of while married AND with a small child? Also who is having an affair with another woman's husband? Who clearly has no integrity or moral values? Who is fine with wrecking 2 families and deeply hurting 4 children?


I feel completely at ease about that, I know more about her than you do. You may judge someone based on number of sexual partners, I have got past that way of thinking.... AND with a small child, how dare she?


----------



## TedRabb

Diana7 said:


> Firstly, its never too late to work on a marriage and make it good. Secondly you are mistaking the lust you feel in the affair for real love, its not. Thirdly did you mean the vows you made to your wife? Are you prepared to put your children before your sordid affair? Forthy being that your affair partner has had sex with multiple men, have you or she been tested for std's?. They are rife now and if you are still occasionally having sex with your wife, you may well have passed one on to her. Not all of them show symptoms.


All fair comments. Vows - yes something to think about, children - very much at the forefront of thinking. I do not consider these things lightly.


----------



## Diana7

TedRabb said:


> I feel completely at ease about that, I know more about her than you do. You may judge someone based on number of sexual partners, I have got past that way of thinking.... AND with a small child, how dare she?


Nope I am judging her for breaking up 2 families, for having an affair with another woman's husband and for committing adultery multiples times while married. For devastating 4 children including her own small child. For putting her lusts ahead of all those people. 

Wow you have got low standards. I have no idea how you will ever be able to trust her or she you.


----------



## Diana7

TedRabb said:


> All fair comments. Vows - yes something to think about, children - very much at the forefront of thinking. I do not consider these things lightly.


Yet you are still going ahead despite all those things. :frown2:


----------



## Diana7

I have asked 2 times if you have been tested for STD's and you have declined to answer. I am guessing that neither you or the OW have. Being she has had many partners she may well have one which means you may well have as well. . 
There was a lady here recently devastated because her cheating husband gave her an incurable STD. Its ruined her life as she feels she can no longer have a relationship. You owe it to your wife to get tested. 

I do hope that you will be man enough to tell you wife and children what is happening, rather than take the easy way our and just leave leaving her devastated and not even knowing why. At mid to late teens your children are quite old enough to be told the truth, that you are leaving them(yes them as well as your wife) for another woman. 
Don't be a coward.


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## TedRabb

I'm sorry Diana but responding to you about STD's is not something I'm going to do.


----------



## aine

TedRabb said:


> I did not say she went and slept with "every man she could find". This sort of comment betrays where your head is at in these matters and shows that your comments lack credibility and your "guarantee" is not worth the paper it is written on. What does it matter how many men it might be? Over a period of more than 5 years that number could be a few or could be a few more than a few.


well, you did say she slept with others while still being married, (in fact something to the tune "a string of other men" that sounds like more than a few to me, no? One two, ten, does it really matter, the fact that she did says a lot about her character.

Secondly, you seem to know little about her culture and the norms therein, that is all I am saying. if you did you might have a different take on what is happening. Nonetheless, it seems you are so far into the affair fog, you cannot see at all what people here are telling you.

In fact, your DP should not be a pelican, an ostrich would be more appropriate methinks. You will do what YOU want to do, why bother writing anything down here. Noone here will justify your actions, you are making **** choices and there will be consequences.


----------



## Diana7

TedRabb said:


> I'm sorry Diana but responding to you about STD's is not something I'm going to do.


Thats ok, you have given your answer. Your poor wife.


----------



## Oceania

TedRabb oh please do come back and post after your trip to lala land has gone bust...


----------



## Blondilocks

1. Don't lie to your children. Tell them you are leaving because you have fallen in love with another woman. Your girls don't deserve the disrespect of being lied to by their father.

2. Tell your wife you are having an affair. 

3. Stop lying to yourself - you are leaving because of the affair. You are not leaving because of a 'symptom'. The marriage did not make you cheat.

4. By all that is Holy, do not tell your wife in a public place. Have the grace to allow her to absorb this information in private so that she can react in honesty. How would you like to be made to feel as though you were an employee being fired? That is a chicken**** thing to do to a spouse. You owe her this. 

female, one 43-year marriage until death did us part.


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## personofinterest

Again, How do you actually feel about what you are doing/have done? You seem to have NO feeling? Do you typically find yourself able to feel empathy?

It feels like I am reading a very calm narcissistic sociopath tell his story.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

EleGirl said:


> Remember that you are only part of the equation in your family. You only have control over yourself. You cannot make it be the best because your wife has a much say in how this goes forward as you do. Then there are your children. While divorce is sometimes the only reasonable option, it usually causes the children emotional harm. It's like choosing which poison is the least harmful for your children... you staying with your wife in a loveless or you setting out on a new life that may or may not include the OW.
> 
> The most compelling reason for you telling your wife about your affair is that she has the right to know what is going on in her life. You have taken that away from her. She has the right to make her own choices based on the facts. By you not telling her the facts, she will be making choices that do not fit reality.
> 
> My description of it from my own life is that it's like living with poltergeists. You now that there is something awful there but you cannot see them and so you don't know exactly what it is you are dealing with. That's your wife's reality now.
> 
> Eventually your wife and your children will figure out that you have been cheating. It will harm your relationship with your children. I've seen this play out so many times.


Hear, hear!
Every point rock solid.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TedRabb said:


> I'm sorry Diana but responding to you about STD's is not something I'm going to do.


It's a valid question. Whether or not you have faced this issue speaks volumes about your character. It's one thing to cheat on your wife, but you enter yet another level of narcissistic depravity by putting your innocent wife at risk. 

My God, man, you _*MUST *_tell your wife of your affair if for no other reason than she can get checked out for whatever you may have carried to her... and so she can protect herself from this point forward! She has that right, just as you have the moral obligation to protect her whether you love her or not.


----------



## EleGirl

TedRabb said:


> I agree with all of that, you have described what I feel where I am at very well.
> 
> About being better in the future, I plan to *communicate, love, be emotionally available always*. *Basically learn from my shortcomings*. I think if I end up with the OW she will demand more of me than my wife and will communicate to me, she is a much more direct person.


Good words. But do you really know how to actually live those words? I doubt it. Most people do. That's why so many marriages end up like yours (and mine). I cannot emphasize enough that you need to read the books that I suggested. They are an eye opener for most people. Sadly we are never taught growing up what we can reasonably expect in a marriage/relationship and what we have to do to make it work. You clearly have no idea based on what you have told us about the way you have been in your marriage. I'm not putting you down. I'm trying to wake you up.



TedRabb said:


> For my kids I will double my efforts to let them know they are loved and special and whether their mother and I are together or not does not change the way I feel about them.


It's going to be hard. Most children struggle with divorce, especially at the age yours are. This is going to take a lot of work as well. And if they find out about your affair, they will probably hate her. 

I've a lot of families breakup. The children often side with one parent and the other cannot shake that no matter how hard they try. They side with the one that they perceive was treated unfairly by the other.


----------



## EleGirl

TedRabb said:


> I feel completely at ease about that, I know more about her than you do.


You do know her more than any of us on here do. Clearly since we have no idea even who she is.

But you have known her for only 6 months. You do not know her enough to rip your life apart for. 

When people 'fall in love', they put on an act for about the first 18-24 months. They are who their new partner wants them to be. Plus, you are seeing her through rose colored glasses. That's caused by the brain's over production of dopamine, oxytocin, etc. These hormones literally make it so that a person does not pay attention the their love interest's serious flaws. It's after that 18-24 month time frame when reality starts to set in. As time goes on, you will see her for who she really is. 

Could she be the wonderful person you think she is? Yes. But it's more likely that once those rose colored glasses come off you will not like what you see. By that time more of her true self will come out.

I know you are going to want to argue against what I'm saying here. Don't bother, it's not worth your effort. Just keep this in mind. But be sure to come back here a year or so from now and let me know if she is still the person you thought her to be today.


----------



## EleGirl

TedRabb said:


> I'm sorry Diana but responding to you about STD's is not something I'm going to do.


The way you word this is odd. You don't 'do' STD. You either get them or you don't get them. You have no choice in the matter if your sex partner has something. The old saying is that when you have sex with someone, you are having sex with everyone they ever had sex with.. meaning that STD follow forward from everyone in both of your pasts.

You should get STD tested as should she. It's just smart.


----------



## clb0208

Well, I can't say I am surprised by many of the responses here, but I will try to add to the conversation from perhaps a different perspective. I sought out your post after you responded to mine, because I do feel that I have some advice to offer. As you may remember, I have been on the receiving end of this conversation and I will tell you how I reacted and what was helpful/harmful during the process. 

First of all, your wife most likely has strong suspicions that this is happening. I imagine that even with your best efforts, your behavior towards her has changed over the course of your affair. I strongly sensed that my husband was becoming even more distant than usual and his routine had changed quite a bit before I discovered the OW. I REALLY like the response that compared this to a poltergeist.... It is spot on! You should really strive to tell her before she confronts you, because it is just a matter of time. My biggest argument when faced with divorce was "If you really wanted a divorce, then why did you try so hard to not get caught." or "If you really wanted a divorce you would have just told me and not waited for me to confront you". So, do it ASAP. I understand your reasoning about wanting to protect your current love interest, but understand that your family will figure it out. You can either look like you own it and respond to your wife's criticism head on, or you can look like you were not man enough to face it. Either way, she will know. In my experience, knowing about the OW actually helped me to accept that things were over. I'm not sure if it is because the initial anger I felt detracted from the sadness, or if it gave me the final straw to say "**** this ****". Either way, I am not really sure I would have been able to reach closure with such conviction without that fueling my fire. You may be actually doing her a favor by telling her the truth, because the what-ifs and unanswered suspicions may be more harmful than the revelation.

As for your kids, I may have missed their ages, but I don't necessarily agree with telling them directly unless they are adults or nearing adulthood soon. My oldest is 12, and I have not told her the details of the divorce. She did not need to be told that her father was the one who ended the marriage, to pick up on that. I have told my daughter that I will never hide anything from her regarding her father and I divorcing, but she will receive the information as it becomes appropriate for her age. Your relationship will be affected no matter how this goes down. In the case of my kids, they understand that this was ultimately their father's decision. They are very protective of me, but still have maintained a good relationship with him too. In some ways their relationship is improved because he spends more time with them. I am not sure what your current relationship with them is like, but I think that as long as you put them first, then you can avoid catastrophe. 

Attempt couples counseling even if you have no desire to reconcile. If you are completely honest during counseling it may actually help her to accept that this is happening and she may even gain insight that she wants to divorce you too. This is what happened for me. My husband said things to me during counseling that at the time I thought were unbelievably hurtful, but in the end those are the things that made me see that I did not want him for a husband. The counselor helped me understand that even at our best, my marriage was not good enough for me, and my husband would never be able to give me what I needed. Your wife will need counseling through this one way or another, you might as well start now. 

I do agree that your relationship with the OW is probably not a positive aspect of your future right now. You really need to figure out life without your wife and the new relationship that you have with your children before you move on with someone else. If I were you I would tell the OW that you think it is best to have some space while the 2 of you figure your divorces out. If she is willing to settle her life and allow you the space to do the same and you both come back to each other, then you know that it is "true love". If either of you are unwilling to do that, then this relationship does not have the substance needed to hold a future. This will also give you more confidence that she is in it for you and not because it is convenient. 

Expect her to be angry, expect her to hate you (at least for a while), expect her to be in complete disbelief. She will be mourning the loss of a person she knew, because you are not him anymore. She will be grieving the loss of her future, because the one that she has imagined is no longer possible. She will be confused that the person she trusted the most is no longer trustworthy. She will be sad for her children, because their lives are about to change forever. She will think of every moment over the past 6 months when you were smiling and think of how that was all a complete lie. She will think of every moment between now and the day you got married and try to pinpoint when the exact moment was when it went downhill. She will do all of these things plus eleventy-billion others that you could not begin to understand. The only thing you can do is accept responsibility for your mistakes and your contributions to the failure. While your wife is not blameless in the state of your marriage leading up to the affair, you have made many mistakes which will make this very difficult for her. You now have the opportunity to try to do the right things to help her move on, so that you both have happiness in the future. 

I know a lot of people have raked you over the coals for whatever reason they deemed appropriate. I honestly don't know your situation with your wife or your OW, which is why I am giving you advice solely based on my personal experiences. If your marriage is as you describe and you are so disconnected, you are doing your wife a favor by allowing her the freedom to find herself a true partner. She will eventually get to that mindset if you do your part where you can through this process. I hope that I was able to provide something helpful in this novel of a reply.


----------



## Diana7

clb0208 said:


> Well, I can't say I am surprised by many of the responses here, but I will try to add to the conversation from perhaps a different perspective. I sought out your post after you responded to mine, because I do feel that I have some advice to offer. As you may remember, I have been on the receiving end of this conversation and I will tell you how I reacted and what was helpful/harmful during the process.
> 
> First of all, your wife most likely has strong suspicions that this is happening. I imagine that even with your best efforts, your behavior towards her has changed over the course of your affair. I strongly sensed that my husband was becoming even more distant than usual and his routine had changed quite a bit before I discovered the OW. I REALLY like the response that compared this to a poltergeist.... It is spot on! You should really strive to tell her before she confronts you, because it is just a matter of time. My biggest argument when faced with divorce was "If you really wanted a divorce, then why did you try so hard to not get caught." or "If you really wanted a divorce you would have just told me and not waited for me to confront you". So, do it ASAP. I understand your reasoning about wanting to protect your current love interest, but understand that your family will figure it out. You can either look like you own it and respond to your wife's criticism head on, or you can look like you were not man enough to face it. Either way, she will know. In my experience, knowing about the OW actually helped me to accept that things were over. I'm not sure if it is because the initial anger I felt detracted from the sadness, or if it gave me the final straw to say "**** this ****". Either way, I am not really sure I would have been able to reach closure with such conviction without that fueling my fire. You may be actually doing her a favor by telling her the truth, because the what-ifs and unanswered suspicions may be more harmful than the revelation.
> 
> As for your kids, I may have missed their ages, but I don't necessarily agree with telling them directly unless they are adults or nearing adulthood soon. My oldest is 12, and I have not told her the details of the divorce. She did not need to be told that her father was the one who ended the marriage, to pick up on that. I have told my daughter that I will never hide anything from her regarding her father and I divorcing, but she will receive the information as it becomes appropriate for her age. Your relationship will be affected no matter how this goes down. In the case of my kids, they understand that this was ultimately their father's decision. They are very protective of me, but still have maintained a good relationship with him too. In some ways their relationship is improved because he spends more time with them. I am not sure what your current relationship with them is like, but I think that as long as you put them first, then you can avoid catastrophe.
> 
> Attempt couples counseling even if you have no desire to reconcile. If you are completely honest during counseling it may actually help her to accept that this is happening and she may even gain insight that she wants to divorce you too. This is what happened for me. My husband said things to me during counseling that at the time I thought were unbelievably hurtful, but in the end those are the things that made me see that I did not want him for a husband. The counselor helped me understand that even at our best, my marriage was not good enough for me, and my husband would never be able to give me what I needed. Your wife will need counseling through this one way or another, you might as well start now.
> 
> I do agree that your relationship with the OW is probably not a positive aspect of your future right now. You really need to figure out life without your wife and the new relationship that you have with your children before you move on with someone else. If I were you I would tell the OW that you think it is best to have some space while the 2 of you figure your divorces out. If she is willing to settle her life and allow you the space to do the same and you both come back to each other, then you know that it is "true love". If either of you are unwilling to do that, then this relationship does not have the substance needed to hold a future. This will also give you more confidence that she is in it for you and not because it is convenient.
> 
> Expect her to be angry, expect her to hate you (at least for a while), expect her to be in complete disbelief. She will be mourning the loss of a person she knew, because you are not him anymore. She will be grieving the loss of her future, because the one that she has imagined is no longer possible. She will be confused that the person she trusted the most is no longer trustworthy. She will be sad for her children, because their lives are about to change forever. She will think of every moment over the past 6 months when you were smiling and think of how that was all a complete lie. She will think of every moment between now and the day you got married and try to pinpoint when the exact moment was when it went downhill. She will do all of these things plus eleventy-billion others that you could not begin to understand. The only thing you can do is accept responsibility for your mistakes and your contributions to the failure. While your wife is not blameless in the state of your marriage leading up to the affair, you have made many mistakes which will make this very difficult for her. You now have the opportunity to try to do the right things to help her move on, so that you both have happiness in the future.
> 
> I know a lot of people have raked you over the coals for whatever reason they deemed appropriate. I honestly don't know your situation with your wife or your OW, which is why I am giving you advice solely based on my personal experiences. If your marriage is as you describe and you are so disconnected, you are doing your wife a favor by allowing her the freedom to find herself a true partner. She will eventually get to that mindset if you do your part where you can through this process. I hope that I was able to provide something helpful in this novel of a reply.


His children are near adults or adults. Mid to late teens. so quite old enough to be told what he is doing.


----------



## BluesPower

clb0208 said:


> Well, I can't say I am surprised by many of the responses here, but I will try to add to the conversation from perhaps a different perspective. I sought out your post after you responded to mine, because I do feel that I have some advice to offer. As you may remember, I have been on the receiving end of this conversation and I will tell you how I reacted and what was helpful/harmful during the process.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 
> I know a lot of people have raked you over the coals for whatever reason they deemed appropriate. I honestly don't know your situation with your wife or your OW, which is why I am giving you advice solely based on my personal experiences. If your marriage is as you describe and you are so disconnected, you are doing your wife a favor by allowing her the freedom to find herself a true partner. She will eventually get to that mindset if you do your part where you can through this process. I hope that I was able to provide something helpful in this novel of a reply.


This is just a super good post. Really good. KUDOS. 

You seem remarkably well balanced, and while I don't you your circumstances I wonder how much of your marriage failing was actually your fault. 

But you seem to be adjusting well, or at least you sound that way when your write. 

Good for you...


----------



## TedRabb

EleGirl said:


> The way you word this is odd. You don't 'do' STD. You either get them or you don't get them. You have no choice in the matter if your sex partner has something. The old saying is that when you have sex with someone, you are having sex with everyone they ever had sex with.. meaning that STD follow forward from everyone in both of your pasts.
> 
> You should get STD tested as should she. It's just smart.


What I am not going to "do" is talk to Diana about it - that's all.


----------



## TedRabb

aine said:


> well, you did say she slept with others while still being married, (in fact something to the tune "a string of other men" that sounds like more than a few to me, no? One two, ten, does it really matter, the fact that she did says a lot about her character.
> 
> Secondly, you seem to know little about her culture and the norms therein, that is all I am saying. if you did you might have a different take on what is happening. Nonetheless, it seems you are so far into the affair fog, you cannot see at all what people here are telling you.
> 
> In fact, your DP should not be a pelican, an ostrich would be more appropriate methinks. You will do what YOU want to do, why bother writing anything down here. Noone here will justify your actions, you are making **** choices and there will be consequences.


What I do know about the culture is that females a repressed in many ways. I think it is perfectly normal that a young woman who is prepared to buck traditional ideas for a love marriage against her families wishes would also be willing to explore sexuality if her husband was unwilling to even have sex and gave his consent.

I'm not looking for justification, all of your comments have been very useful and have given me a glimpse of the ****storm that will be coming my way.


----------



## Beach123

TedRabb said:


> A few posters have said i must be truthful and confess the affair to my wife.
> 
> I know there is reason to do that but whether i confess or not, my wife will still wonder what went wrong or what she did wrong.
> 
> I want the OW to be a part of my life in the future and that means in my kids life. I don't want her to be seen as the one that is the home wrecker... that is one good reason to not confess is it not?
> 
> She is not a monster... nor am i... and we have to try and coexist with ex spouses and kids in the future.


You are dreaming if you think that ruining the life of your wife and KIDS won't have consequences!

And you are a monster. Own it! You were calculated in going on a website to search out what was missing in your marriage.

You could have a) been honest with your wife that you were dissatisfied and b) divorced her BEFORE you totally betrayed her!

But no, you chose the path of cheating and lying that every coward chooses. 

You think your girls are going to admire you at all in their future? NO WAY!

So that's reality. Get honest. Admit it fully...exactly what you've done = because that is who you are!

You've been selfish the whole marriage - so what if penetration wasn't easy... you have fingers and a tongue, no?

And don't expect a 34 year old to stick around forever - unless you have money like Trump.

You're in fantasy land...enjoy it while it's still good - you're a man who's gonna blow up two families lives forever.


----------



## TedRabb

Blondilocks said:


> 4. By all that is Holy, do not tell your wife in a public place. Have the grace to allow her to absorb this information in private so that she can react in honesty. How would you like to be made to feel as though you were an employee being fired? That is a chicken**** thing to do to a spouse. You owe her this.
> 
> female, one 43-year marriage until death did us part.


I would not do anything like that in public, someone mentioned it but not me.


----------



## Beach123

TedRabb said:


> I feel completely at ease about that, I know more about her than you do. You may judge someone based on number of sexual partners, I have got past that way of thinking.... AND with a small child, how dare she?


Six months - you can't possibly know her. Anyone can pretend for six months. Anyone can tell you whatever they choose.

You just chose to believe all of her words... and she likely believes all of what you've said - especially as you rewrite your marital history.

Yes, divorce your wife. But get honest with her that you've not been a good husband. That you've cheated.

You and the OW should be an even match - go for it - but don't expect others to be all supportive of you.

Your prior actions show your (lack of) character... at least try and be a better man moving forward. Be honest with all of your family! No one made you cheat! It's NOT your wife's fault you lack integrity, character and truthfulness!


----------



## TedRabb

personofinterest said:


> Again, How do you actually feel about what you are doing/have done? You seem to have NO feeling? Do you typically find yourself able to feel empathy?
> 
> It feels like I am reading a very calm narcissistic sociopath tell his story.


Again, I've already answered your question directly, I'm not going to do so again.

Armchair Psychology Fail. I am not grandiose or believe I'm better, nothing like it. I am calm though.

I do feel very much for my wife (and my kids)... that is the only thing that could potentially stop me from doing what I feel I must. I don't fear being single, being alone, being left by the OW. I fear the damage to the lifestyle of my wife, I don't think she is getting much emotional connection with me to lose and I know she is getting no physical connection from me to lose. She will lost the support behind her in life and that is hard for me to face. I don't feel that the things I get from my relationship with my wife are enough to stay in that "dead" situation.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

The way Diana is coming after you it has to make you wonder how much she and your wife are alike. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TedRabb

CmonDionne said:


> TedRabb oh please do come back and post after your trip to lala land has gone bust...


Can anyone post links to some of the apparently numerous stories where those leaving their marriage for another later wish they never did.

I remember reading one... but I read a hell of a lot more of poor saps both male and female wallowing in painful unhappy marriages.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TedRabb said:


> Again, I've already answered your question directly, I'm not going to do so again.
> 
> Armchair Psychology Fail. I am not grandiose or believe I'm better, nothing like it. I am calm though.
> 
> I do feel very much for my wife (and my kids)... that is the only thing that could potentially stop me from doing what I feel I must. I don't fear being single, being alone, being left by the OW. I fear the damage to the lifestyle of my wife, I don't think she is getting much emotional connection with me to lose and I know she is getting no physical connection from me to lose. She will lost the support behind her in life and that is hard for me to face. I don't feel that the things I get from my relationship with my wife are enough to stay in that "dead" situation.


If you truly felt for your wife, you would have dealt with this honorably and up front rather than running around behind her back.


----------



## TedRabb

WorkingOnMe said:


> The way Diana is coming after you it has to make you wonder how much she and your wife are alike.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOL. I don't think my wife is as bitter and twisted as Diana and I hope she is not after this is all through. I do think Diana and Aine are a very good tag team attack duo though! and might even be the same person based on their reciprocal likes and similar approaches.


----------



## TedRabb

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> If you truly felt for your wife, you would have dealt with this honorably and up front rather than running around behind her back.


I never said I haven't done the wrong thing.... but whats done is done


----------



## Beach123

TedRabb said:


> Can anyone post links to some of the apparently numerous stories where those leaving their marriage for another later wish they never did.
> 
> I remember reading one... but I read a hell of a lot more of poor saps both male and female wallowing in painful unhappy marriages.


I can tell you.

My exH... ya, he's sad the marriage ended.

He had a perfect life for 25 years. He cheated -I found out and realized I deserved better!!! 

He's remarried (not to the OW he cheated with) but he's still sad and heartbroken we aren't together.


Every life event gets affected by the fact that we divorced... even when our adult kids go to the hospital - yep, we all end up there at the same time. Don't assume these life events will go easy or well - mine do now because I simply don't care anymore. He cares a LOT...and still tries to steal away any moment he can with me. I want nothing to do with him. I'm over it like it never happened. I'm only sorry I wasted 25 years on a liar and a cheat.



It's been 13 years since we divorced... he will never be the same. His adult boys (men) know thoroughly he lacks honesty and integrity. All of our family has forever been changed...every single person! We both have large families. 

You go on and marry that OW. Your wife will be fine! 

Get used to broken families, child support and spousal support! 

And yes, even funerals are odd...they invite me and I go because I loved them. I'm gracious and everyone is too - but I can see all his family looking at my exH like he's the schmuck who ruined a good thing. 

Be selfish. Be with the OW. It's a great match!



Does that give you any ideas of what to expect?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TedRabb said:


> What I am not going to "do" is talk to Diana about it - that's all.


That's a mighty convenient cop out. That you don't like Diana doesn't obviate the validity of the question. What have you done to ensure you don't have an STD and, more importantly, what have you don to ensure you havent given your wife an STD? What are you doing to ensure she doesn't get one from here forward. 

As of now, we can only assume the worst.


----------



## Beach123

TedRabb said:


> I never said I haven't done the wrong thing.... but whats done is done


Very true! And exactly why your wife deserves a man who loves and honors her!


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TedRabb said:


> Can anyone post links to some of the apparently numerous stories where those leaving their marriage for another later wish they never did.
> 
> I remember reading one... but I read a hell of a lot more of poor saps both male and female wallowing in painful unhappy marriages.


There are plenty of stories of people who were better off for getting out of a miserable marriage. But they are not the cheaters. They are the ones who offloaded their cheating spouses.


----------



## Beach123

you know - every action has a reaction.

You spent YEARS not getting connected to your wife - yet YOU stayed married AND created 3 kids.


Now you have spent tons of time and energy focusing on some other woman. I get that. 

Know that there are consequences for what you've done.


Your family isn't about to be happy for you. Know that.

Deal with what YOU created! This is the life you created now deal with it.

But in the end - be honest. Don't blame this on your wife. Don't with hold the truth from her - I'm sure on some level she already knows. Your kids know too.


----------



## TedRabb

clb0208 said:


> Well, I can't say I am surprised by many of the responses here, but I will try to add to the conversation from perhaps a different perspective. I sought out your post after you responded to mine, because I do feel that I have some advice to offer. As you may remember, I have been on the receiving end of this conversation and I will tell you how I reacted and what was helpful/harmful during the process.
> 
> First of all, your wife most likely has strong suspicions that this is happening. I imagine that even with your best efforts, your behavior towards her has changed over the course of your affair. I strongly sensed that my husband was becoming even more distant than usual and his routine had changed quite a bit before I discovered the OW. I REALLY like the response that compared this to a poltergeist.... It is spot on! You should really strive to tell her before she confronts you, because it is just a matter of time. My biggest argument when faced with divorce was "If you really wanted a divorce, then why did you try so hard to not get caught." or "If you really wanted a divorce you would have just told me and not waited for me to confront you". So, do it ASAP. I understand your reasoning about wanting to protect your current love interest, but understand that your family will figure it out. You can either look like you own it and respond to your wife's criticism head on, or you can look like you were not man enough to face it. Either way, she will know. In my experience, knowing about the OW actually helped me to accept that things were over. I'm not sure if it is because the initial anger I felt detracted from the sadness, or if it gave me the final straw to say "**** this ****". Either way, I am not really sure I would have been able to reach closure with such conviction without that fueling my fire. You may be actually doing her a favor by telling her the truth, because the what-ifs and unanswered suspicions may be more harmful than the revelation.
> 
> As for your kids, I may have missed their ages, but I don't necessarily agree with telling them directly unless they are adults or nearing adulthood soon. My oldest is 12, and I have not told her the details of the divorce. She did not need to be told that her father was the one who ended the marriage, to pick up on that. I have told my daughter that I will never hide anything from her regarding her father and I divorcing, but she will receive the information as it becomes appropriate for her age. Your relationship will be affected no matter how this goes down. In the case of my kids, they understand that this was ultimately their father's decision. They are very protective of me, but still have maintained a good relationship with him too. In some ways their relationship is improved because he spends more time with them. I am not sure what your current relationship with them is like, but I think that as long as you put them first, then you can avoid catastrophe.
> 
> Attempt couples counseling even if you have no desire to reconcile. If you are completely honest during counseling it may actually help her to accept that this is happening and she may even gain insight that she wants to divorce you too. This is what happened for me. My husband said things to me during counseling that at the time I thought were unbelievably hurtful, but in the end those are the things that made me see that I did not want him for a husband. The counselor helped me understand that even at our best, my marriage was not good enough for me, and my husband would never be able to give me what I needed. Your wife will need counseling through this one way or another, you might as well start now.
> 
> I do agree that your relationship with the OW is probably not a positive aspect of your future right now. You really need to figure out life without your wife and the new relationship that you have with your children before you move on with someone else. If I were you I would tell the OW that you think it is best to have some space while the 2 of you figure your divorces out. If she is willing to settle her life and allow you the space to do the same and you both come back to each other, then you know that it is "true love". If either of you are unwilling to do that, then this relationship does not have the substance needed to hold a future. This will also give you more confidence that she is in it for you and not because it is convenient.
> 
> Expect her to be angry, expect her to hate you (at least for a while), expect her to be in complete disbelief. She will be mourning the loss of a person she knew, because you are not him anymore. She will be grieving the loss of her future, because the one that she has imagined is no longer possible. She will be confused that the person she trusted the most is no longer trustworthy. She will be sad for her children, because their lives are about to change forever. She will think of every moment over the past 6 months when you were smiling and think of how that was all a complete lie. She will think of every moment between now and the day you got married and try to pinpoint when the exact moment was when it went downhill. She will do all of these things plus eleventy-billion others that you could not begin to understand. The only thing you can do is accept responsibility for your mistakes and your contributions to the failure. While your wife is not blameless in the state of your marriage leading up to the affair, you have made many mistakes which will make this very difficult for her. You now have the opportunity to try to do the right things to help her move on, so that you both have happiness in the future.
> 
> I know a lot of people have raked you over the coals for whatever reason they deemed appropriate. I honestly don't know your situation with your wife or your OW, which is why I am giving you advice solely based on my personal experiences. If your marriage is as you describe and you are so disconnected, you are doing your wife a favor by allowing her the freedom to find herself a true partner. She will eventually get to that mindset if you do your part where you can through this process. I hope that I was able to provide something helpful in this novel of a reply.


Thank you so much for your post, I really appreciate the time you spent on it for me. 

About the couples counselling even if I don't want it to work... I had a friend who's wife did that to him, just to be able to say she tried everything, she "ticked the box". I'll take that on board about doing MC because you found it useful.

Another guy here also said knowing the truth about his wife's affair helped him accept the end of the marriage so that resonated with me.

My girls are mid to older teens.... I still don't know if they need to know the sordid details just yet. You sound like a very balanced person and do not hold your hurt over the loss of your marriage against the well being of your children, you wonderful for being that strong person.

I know my wife does not deserve to have her life turned upside down, bit she also does deserve to have someone love her fully, like I feel I can't.

I don't want to be the guy who strings along an OW for years... I told her a while back to make sure she keeps me accountable to make a decision. That's why I'm doing something 3 months only after of professing feelings for the OW. As my counsellor said, I can't walk 2 paths at once.

I do have a question though. My plan was/is to first just tell my wife of the problems I feel in the marriage and to ask her to look critically at where we are in our day to day encounters, our lack of deep emotional connections, our lack of physical connection - just to alert her that I have been thinking and don't think everything is OK. I don't feel I can just drop the nuclear bomb of the affair out of the blue. What are your thoughts on this? Did your husband drop it on you from nowhere? or did you have a history of discussions and an understanding that there were problems in the marriage. I think I'll read back through your thread it is probably answered in there.

Thanks again.


----------



## TedRabb

Beach123 said:


> You are dreaming if you think that ruining the life of your wife and KIDS won't have consequences!
> 
> And you are a monster. Own it! You were calculated in going on a website to search out what was missing in your marriage.
> 
> You could have a) been honest with your wife that you were dissatisfied and b) divorced her BEFORE you totally betrayed her!
> 
> But no, you chose the path of cheating and lying that every coward chooses.
> 
> You think your girls are going to admire you at all in their future? NO WAY!
> 
> So that's reality. Get honest. Admit it fully...exactly what you've done = because that is who you are!
> 
> You've been selfish the whole marriage - so what if penetration wasn't easy... you have fingers and a tongue, no?
> 
> And don't expect a 34 year old to stick around forever - unless you have money like Trump.
> 
> You're in fantasy land...enjoy it while it's still good - you're a man who's gonna blow up two families lives forever.


Alot of abuse there! r u OK?

Who said there would not be consequences? Not me

I know I did wrong, plenty of mistakes.

Penetration? What are you talking about?... r u getting confused with what I write about the OW's husband who seemed to couldn't then didn't want to have sex.


----------



## aine

TedRabb said:


> LOL. I don't think my wife is as bitter and twisted as Diana and I hope she is not after this is all through. I do think Diana and Aine are a very good tag team attack duo though! and might even be the same person based on their reciprocal likes and similar approaches.


Seriously? I can assure you Diana and I are not the same person, in fact I believe we are from opposite ends of the planet.
Just because we call you out on your awful lack of honor we are "attacking" you and 'bitter and twisted." Not only are you dishonorable, a liar and a cheat, you seem to have a sense of selfish entitlement. Entitled to be treated with kid gloves because poor old you has been hard done by in your marriage, no sex, no emotion, etc blah blah blah, so your actions are all justified. 
This will all blow up in your face. My heart goes out to your wife, your kids, your mistress's husband and kid. Not all people see the world the way you do nor have your value (or lack of values rather) system either.


----------



## TedRabb

Beach123 said:


> I can tell you.
> 
> My exH... ya, he's sad the marriage ended.
> 
> He had a perfect life for 25 years. He cheated -I found out and realized I deserved better!!!
> 
> He's remarried (not to the OW he cheated with) but he's still sad and heartbroken we aren't together.
> 
> 
> Every life event gets affected by the fact that we divorced... even when our adult kids go to the hospital - yep, we all end up there at the same time. Don't assume these life events will go easy or well - mine do now because I simply don't care anymore. He cares a LOT...and still tries to steal away any moment he can with me. I want nothing to do with him. I'm over it like it never happened. I'm only sorry I wasted 25 years on a liar and a cheat.
> 
> 
> 
> It's been 13 years since we divorced... he will never be the same. His adult boys (men) know thoroughly he lacks honesty and integrity. All of our family has forever been changed...every single person! We both have large families.
> 
> You go on and marry that OW. Your wife will be fine!
> 
> Get used to broken families, child support and spousal support!
> 
> And yes, even funerals are odd...they invite me and I go because I loved them. I'm gracious and everyone is too - but I can see all his family looking at my exH like he's the schmuck who ruined a good thing.
> 
> Be selfish. Be with the OW. It's a great match!
> 
> 
> 
> Does that give you any ideas of what to expect?


Sure does. You must be a wonderful person for him to still yearn for you, but sounds like you are both sad.


----------



## aine

TedRabb said:


> Can anyone post links to some of the apparently numerous stories where those leaving their marriage for another later wish they never did.
> 
> I remember reading one... but I read a hell of a lot more of poor saps both male and female wallowing in painful unhappy marriages.


I don' t think anyone on here is suggesting you stay in the marriage at all. In fact, it would be evil to do so after all the sleeping around you (and your OW) have done, what with the lying and dishonesty, the potential STDs etc. The best thing you can do is go home, tell your family the full truth and divorce your wife ASAP. The fact is she probably already suspects what you are up to, most spouses know when they are being cheated on, they just don't have the evidence or know how to confront the other spouse. You may be giving her the biggest relief of her life, so let her go.

Using the excuse of her having no support is nonsense, she will be entitled to your joint assets. Yes, it will be difficult for her initially to handle the failure of the marriage, but knowing the full truth will make it way easier and she may be fully glad to escape you and the marriage. You mentioned earlier she was very petite, good looking and fit for her age. If she is in her late 40's she will be able to start over again no problems with a man hopefully who will take the time to work on his and her relationship and build something meaningful with her. You might be giving her the best gift ever by letting her go and not dragging this matter out.

In fact, if you have any feelings for her at all, this is what you must do, so she can pick up the pieces and move on to a much better and fulfilled life. If you are not fulfilled I doubt she is either in a dying marriage.

How you have gone about it all is awfully selfish though and that is why you are getting the brickbats. Do the right thing now and tell the truth and get on with it. Stop with the dishonorable lying and hiding and put things right so that everyone can move on.


----------



## TedRabb

aine said:


> Seriously? I can assure you Diana and I are not the same person, in fact I believe we are from opposite ends of the planet.
> Just because we call you out on your awful lack of honor we are "attacking" you and 'bitter and twisted." Not only are you dishonorable, a liar and a cheat, you seem to have a sense of selfish entitlement. Entitled to be treated with kid gloves because poor old you has been hard done by in your marriage, no sex, no emotion, etc blah blah blah, so your actions are all justified.
> This will all blow up in your face. My heart goes out to your wife, your kids, your mistress's husband and kid. Not all people see the world the way you do nor have your value (or lack of values rather) system either.


I won't disagree with the first 3 descriptions of me but I don't think entitlement comes into it, we are all selfish in one way or another. Never said I was hard done by and that the cheating was justified. It happened, it was a mistake, I am dealing with it.
I'll let others judge the tone of your words.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Would you explain the reasons for your sexless marriage? Were you being regularly denied or were you the one denying? What did you do to try and resolve this issue - before you cheated.

Just curious.


----------



## TedRabb

aine said:


> I don' t think anyone on here is suggesting you stay in the marriage at all. In fact, it would be evil to do so after all the sleeping around you (and your OW) have done, what with the lying and dishonesty, the potential STDs etc. The best thing you can do is go home, tell your family the full truth and divorce your wife ASAP. The fact is she probably already suspects what you are up to, most spouses know when they are being cheated on, they just don't have the evidence or know how to confront the other spouse. You may be giving her the biggest relief of her life, so let her go.
> 
> Using the excuse of her having no support is nonsense, she will be entitled to your joint assets. Yes, it will be difficult for her initially to handle the failure of the marriage, but knowing the full truth will make it way easier and she may be fully glad to escape you and the marriage. You mentioned earlier she was very petite, good looking and fit for her age. If she is in her late 40's she will be able to start over again no problems with a man hopefully who will take the time to work on his and her relationship and build something meaningful with her. You might be giving her the best gift ever by letting her go and not dragging this matter out.
> 
> In fact, if you have any feelings for her at all, this is what you must do, so she can pick up the pieces and move on to a much better and fulfilled life. If you are not fulfilled I doubt she is either in a dying marriage.
> 
> How you have gone about it all is awfully selfish though and that is why you are getting the brickbats. Do the right thing now and tell the truth and get on with it. Stop with the dishonorable lying and hiding and put things right so that everyone can move on.


That's the plan, I said that from the start and the day is coming soon. I have just had to wait for some family matters to pass before starting the firestorm.

About support I mean't just personal support, being there every day to talk, help, do things. Of course she will get financial support, more like 65% of joint assets and spousal support... you know what... I don't care, she deserves to be looked after best as I can. Me? I may be in the poorhouse, but again, that won't make me lie in my marriage when many would live in a fake situation rather than face the family, financial, society and emotional consequences.


----------



## Beach123

Don't miss take any of my posts as portraying me as sad.

Far from that at this point! &#55357;&#56841;


But I must have not understood when you typed PE as part of your sexless marriage. What would you describe was the problem in your sexless marriage?

Oops, never mind - I see it is premature ejaculation... so how fun do you think that was for your wife? Did you satisfy her every time before you finished?

Did your wife ever know you visited massage parlors?


----------



## TedRabb

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Would you explain the reasons for your sexless marriage? Were you being regularly denied or were you the one denying? What did you do to try and resolve this issue - before you cheated.
> 
> Just curious.


I think it is covered in the OP. No-one denied the other, it just wasn't very good and we both didn't try hard to make it better. We didn't really try anything, the communication was not there between us to deal with it.


----------



## TedRabb

Beach123 said:


> Don't miss take any of my posts as portraying me as sad.
> 
> Far from that at this point! ��
> 
> 
> But I must have not understood when you typed PE as part of your sexless marriage. What would you describe was the problem in your sexless marriage?
> 
> Oops, never mind - I see it is premature ejaculation... so how fun do you think that was for your wife? Did you satisfy her every time before you finished?
> 
> Did your wife ever know you visited massage parlors?


- We did not seem to want sex with each other, neither is asking for it now.
- I tried to and usually succeeded. She never tried once to get me up for a second round where PIV may have been more fulfilling.
- Don't think so. She was aware of me looking at porn some years ago and didn't like it.


----------



## Beach123

TedRabb said:


> That's the plan, I said that from the start and the day is coming soon. I have just had to wait for some family matters to pass before starting the firestorm.
> 
> About support I mean't just personal support, being there every day to talk, help, do things. Of course she will get financial support, more like 65% of joint assets and spousal support... you know what... I don't care, she deserves to be looked after best as I can. Me? I may be in the poorhouse, but again, that won't make me lie in my marriage when many would live in a fake situation rather than face the family, financial, society and emotional consequences.


Does this indicate you plan to be honest and tell your wife about your affair?


----------



## Beach123

Does your affair person understand you will have 65-70% less income than you currently have?


----------



## TedRabb

TedRabb said:


> I do have a question though. My plan was/is to first just tell my wife of the problems I feel in the marriage and to ask her to look critically at where we are in our day to day encounters, our lack of deep emotional connections, our lack of physical connection - just to alert her that I have been thinking and don't think everything is OK. I don't feel I can just drop the nuclear bomb of the affair out of the blue. What are your thoughts on this? Did your husband drop it on you from nowhere? or did you have a history of discussions and an understanding that there were problems in the marriage. I think I'll read back through your thread it is probably answered in there.
> 
> Thanks again.


I read your thread again and see there were EA's but no proof of a PA. It is a hypothetical but how do you think you would have felt if there was a PA that he admitted to? 

Maybe the PA pushed him over the edge and he realised he could no longer live authentically in the marriage.

I feel a bit similar but different in that as soon as my affair had an emotional element to it I knew it was game over... no going back.


----------



## TedRabb

Beach123 said:


> Does your affair person understand you will have 65-70% less income than you currently have?


I will only get 35% of the assets, income I don't know how they work it out but I won't have the same disposable income, she knows that.


----------



## TedRabb

Beach123 said:


> Does this indicate you plan to be honest and tell your wife about your affair?


I think I knew it would come out anyway, if not be highly suspicious of one. She will probably ask straight off the bat when I start the talk. I don't know what the answer would be to that right now. It is best if she knows, but there also good reasons to want to keep it hidden.


----------



## Beach123

And you realize you may divorce and she may very well stay married, right?

Could you handle that long term?


----------



## TedRabb

Beach123 said:


> And you realize you may divorce and she may very well stay married, right?
> 
> Could you handle that long term?


You mean the OW? I don't think so. She has made up her mind she is leaving, we both agree we need to be apart for a while before we (hopefully) get back together. I don't know how successful that will be but we will live apart for a reasonable amount of time at least.


----------



## Beach123

TedRabb said:


> You mean the OW? I don't think so. She has made up her mind she is leaving, we both agree we need to be apart for a while before we (hopefully) get back together. I don't know how successful that will be but we will live apart for a reasonable amount of time at least.


Yes, I was referring to the OW.

I think it's a good idea to be on your own after the long term marriage ends. Consider therapy, it can help you gain strength as you navigate your independence.

I caution you though... many, many affair people who swear they will leave a marriage they have complained about don't actually end up divorcing... so be prepared to be theOM long term so you're not disappointed if she doesn't divorce.

It happens a LOT! Some people just can't pull that trigger for a variety of reasons.


----------



## Oceania

You say that the OW "has told her husband she has met someone she cares about and has realised she can not live like she has been for the past decade."

Why can't you admit the same to your wife?


----------



## EleGirl

TedRabb said:


> I will only get 35% of the assets, income I don't know how they work it out but I won't have the same disposable income, she knows that.


Why will you get only 35% of the joint assets? What of you base that on?


----------



## TedRabb

EleGirl said:


> TedRabb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will only get 35% of the assets, income I don't know how they work it out but I won't have the same disposable income, she knows that.
> 
> 
> 
> Why will you get only 35% of the joint assets? What of you base that on?
Click to expand...

That's the way it is in my country. Woman gets the lions share. I could get 40%... but i earn more and have more future ear


----------



## Blondilocks

TedRabb said:


> I think I knew it would come out anyway, if not be highly suspicious of one. She will probably ask straight off the bat when I start the talk. I don't know what the answer would be to that right now. It is best if she knows, but there also good reasons to want to keep it hidden.


The only good reason to keep it hidden is to benefit you. Please don't start with the plan to discuss the state of your marriage and then down the line disclose the affair. That is misleading and cruel to your wife and children. And, don't dole out the truth in soundbites. Just spit it out and let the chips fall where they may. Trickle-truthing a person is heartless and will cause everyone more harm in the long run.


----------



## personofinterest

CmonDionne said:


> You say that the OW "has told her husband she has met someone she cares about and has realised she can not live like she has been for the past decade."
> 
> Why can't you admit the same to your wife?



We are dealing with 2 very different psychological profiles here. So he is not going to do the same thing that the other woman is doing. He will not be honest with his wife. If he Does tell her of the affair, he will couch it in blaming her.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

personofinterest said:


> We are dealing with 2 very different psychological profiles here. So he is not going to do the same thing that the other woman is doing. He will not be honest with his wife. If he Does tell her of the affair, he will couch it in blaming her.


The problem here unfortunately, is that the OP is part of an Elite Class on TAM known as what I would call as the 'Enlightened'. 

Whatever we tell the enlightened, they have heard before. They know what we don't and never could. They can predict the future and turn outcomes that are of certainty one way and covert them into another way, that yields an outcome desirable to themselves. Collateral damage to friends and family are of no consequence and they should generally just be grateful that the Enlightened already thought all of this through and was humble enough to make life decisions on all of their behalf. 

I have been on here for almost a year now and am grateful for the advice that was given to me and enjoy helping out where I can but there is something that I have learned in the past year about this special class of TAM Wizards ... my puny intellect pales in comparison to them and thus I sadly bow out of attempting to give advice, when it's no use to the TAM Enlightened. I can only rejoice that we are in their masterful presence.


----------



## personofinterest

stillfightingforus said:


> The problem here unfortunately, is that the OP is part of an Elite Class on TAM known as what I would call as the 'Enlightened'.
> 
> Whatever we tell the enlightened, they have heard before. They know what we don't and never could. They can predict the future and turn outcomes that are of certainty one way and covert them into another way, that yields an outcome desirable to themselves.  Collateral damage to friends and family are of no consequence and they should generally just be grateful that the Enlightened already thought all of this through and was humble enough to make life decisions on all of their behalf.
> 
> I have been on here for almost a year now and am grateful for the advice that was given to me and enjoy helping out where I can but there is something that I have learned in the past year about this special class of TAM Wizards ... my puny intellect pales in comparison to them and thus I sadly bow out of attempting to give advice, when it's no use to the TAM Enlightened. I can only rejoice that we are in their masterful presence.



Yes, Narcissism. Lack of empathy. Arrogance and condescension. When someone is never wrong, it is futile to point out their wrong.


----------



## EleGirl

TedRabb said:


> That's the way it is in my country. Woman gets the lions share. I could get 40%... but i earn more and have more future ear


Hm, we have a lot of people from your country who post here. This is not what they say goes on. I hope some of them chime in.


----------



## Beach123

You look like you have this all figured out and wrapped it up with a nice little bow.

Seems you know how this will all go and predict exactly as it is planned.


What you missed is that you can't control and predict everything.


It won't go as planned... people here have tried to help you and you seem to shut all help off. It will get all twisted up - it's guaranteed. Especially since you stand firm on lying to your wife! It will get ugly. Then it will get uglier! Mainly because you won't be honest.

Honesty goes a LONG way and helps when people feel deceived.

Your relationship with your wife will be toast - and your relationship with your daughters will suffer because you've cheated and lied.

You could help all of those relationships by being honest. They may suffer for a while but in the end they would appreciate that the lies ended. 

If you don't they will search out your truth. Every rock will be u covered.


----------



## sunsetmist

Title: I am about to create a storm in my life (firestorm). His last question: Do you think I am making a right decision?

He is a thinker and enjoys debate.

This thread created a plethora of early responses--mostly related to honesty and morals. However, OP has, for all practical purposes, already left the marriage--even though on one occasion, he calls it Happy Family Life???. He progressed from porn to paid sex to online hook-ups. 

He just wants to leave under sort of false pretenses and maybe some trickle-truth if necessary. He and OW will separate for a while to give some semblance of propriety. But they met up for twice a month sex for six months. Imagine---now there is emotional attachment--3 months.

He said, "What's done is done." He didn't, in the beginning expect this outcome. (Where has TAM heard this before?)

Bottom-line is he is 49, has had problems in functioning sexually in the past, and now he has "seen the Garden of Eden and the world no longer looks the same." He has found sex that is not just good, but is great. This is the entire focus of his life right now. Remember, the throne of England was abdicated for such as this. For him, right decision question involves maybe last chances for great sex--not family or pretty much anything else.

Let's hope nothing really serious happens to rain on his parade/dream. In his ideal world, he could have a harem and retire current (no attraction, but some need to take care of) wife to senior status. 

Again, please let us know how this works out.....


----------



## clb0208

Diana7 said:


> His children are near adults or adults. Mid to late teens. so quite old enough to be told what he is doing.


I don't think that just because they are mid to late teens that they are automatically qualified to understand the logistics of the divorce. That is up to the OP and his wife to decide. If they are adults, then that may be a different story. But honestly, I don't necessarily think that the OP is required to tell his children about the infidelity. His wife, yes absolutely i think he should be honest. His wife understands the full context of the relationship. I feel as though many of you who scream from the rooftops to tell the children are doing so to watch this man burn and not thinking about if that is really what is best for his children. What is best for the children is that they are able to survive this massive disruption in their lives and still have good relationships with BOTH parents.


----------



## Beach123

No marriage could compete with the fantasy of being with a 34 year old who provides you good sex.

Be realistic. Your fantasy far outweighs the reality of your marriage.


What will you do when your 30's bride also succumbs to the dull life of marriage?


----------



## Diana7

clb0208 said:


> I don't think that just because they are mid to late teens that they are automatically qualified to understand the logistics of the divorce. That is up to the OP and his wife to decide. If they are adults, then that may be a different story. But honestly, I don't necessarily think that the OP is required to tell his children about the infidelity. His wife, yes absolutely i think he should be honest. His wife understands the full context of the relationship. I feel as though many of you who scream from the rooftops to tell the children are doing so to watch this man burn and not thinking about if that is really what is best for his children. What is best for the children is that they are able to survive this massive disruption in their lives and still have good relationships with BOTH parents.


I didn't say they need to be told all the details of the divorce but they do need to be told the truth. That their dad has met another woman and will be moving out. They will find out soon enough anyway and it will make things far worse if they were lied to. My dad lied to me and my brother when we were in our teens, but we still knew something was going on and the lying was almost as bad as the cheating. I lost a lot of respect for him through those lies. 
The children are adults or near adults. If they were small children that would be different.


----------



## personofinterest

A narcissist will not tell his children anything that puts him in a bad light. They are an extension to himself and part of his admiration supply.


----------



## clb0208

TedRabb said:


> Thank you so much for your post, I really appreciate the time you spent on it for me.
> 
> About the couples counselling even if I don't want it to work... I had a friend who's wife did that to him, just to be able to say she tried everything, she "ticked the box". I'll take that on board about doing MC because you found it useful.
> 
> Another guy here also said knowing the truth about his wife's affair helped him accept the end of the marriage so that resonated with me.
> 
> My girls are mid to older teens.... I still don't know if they need to know the sordid details just yet. You sound like a very balanced person and do not hold your hurt over the loss of your marriage against the well being of your children, you wonderful for being that strong person.
> 
> I know my wife does not deserve to have her life turned upside down, bit she also does deserve to have someone love her fully, like I feel I can't.
> 
> I don't want to be the guy who strings along an OW for years... I told her a while back to make sure she keeps me accountable to make a decision. That's why I'm doing something 3 months only after of professing feelings for the OW. As my counsellor said, I can't walk 2 paths at once.
> 
> I do have a question though. My plan was/is to first just tell my wife of the problems I feel in the marriage and to ask her to look critically at where we are in our day to day encounters, our lack of deep emotional connections, our lack of physical connection - just to alert her that I have been thinking and don't think everything is OK. I don't feel I can just drop the nuclear bomb of the affair out of the blue. What are your thoughts on this? Did your husband drop it on you from nowhere? or did you have a history of discussions and an understanding that there were problems in the marriage. I think I'll read back through your thread it is probably answered in there.
> 
> Thanks again.



My husband did not confront me at all. I confronted him when I discovered the frequent, long conversations he was having with his former employee. He tried hiding it until the evidence was undeniable. He told me that he was unwilling to break off the communication, because he felt a connection with her. He said he was unsure of his feelings, but was leaning towards getting a divorce because he felt like he no longer thought we were capable of that type of connection.

I would caution you that by using this "round about" approach you describe, you are allowing her to have hope that things are fixable. If you are certain that things between you are irreparable then you may be prolonging her pain by giving her this hope. As I mentioned before, she probably already suspects your infidelity, so I would be willing to bet that she will ask you about this even if you do not bring it up. Then, assuming you follow through with honesty, will be forced to discuss your relationship with the OW anyway. My husband's arguments would have been much more believable had he been the one to approach me with the subject, rather than wait to get caught. It left the question of "how long were you planning on doing this to me?" linger for a long time. It even left me with a guilty feeling of blame. I began thinking we would still be married to this day if I had just never confronted him about the OW. Maybe he would have realized he was wrong and cut it off, we may have rediscovered our love for each other and lived happily ever after, if I would have just kept my mouth shut... This twisted thought process made sense at the time, however ridiculous it may be. 

No one can predict how your wife will respond to the news. It is likely that she will be unable to really control how she responds, and you need to understand that she is completely entitled to whatever response presents itself. Understand that you have been in control of this situation the entire time... Your purpose now is to allow her to regain some sense of control through being honest and taking responsibility of your actions. The only way she can do this is by having all of the information so she can come to terms with the true reality at hand. By only giving her bits and pieces of the situation, you are presenting a distorted picture of this reality and setting her up for failure.


----------



## aine

clb0208 said:


> No one can predict how your wife will respond to the news. It is likely that she will be unable to really control how she responds, and you need to understand that she is completely entitled to whatever response presents itself. Understand that you have been in control of this situation the entire time... Your purpose now is to allow her to regain some sense of control through being honest and taking responsibility of your actions. The only way she can do this is by having all of the information so she can come to terms with the true reality at hand. *By only giving her bits and pieces of the situation, you are presenting a distorted picture of this reality and setting her up for failure*.


And to add, setting yourself up to be the biggest douche - bag in the eyes of your (almost grown-up) kids, who will see you for what you are. Is that the way you want to be remembered by your kids, STB ex-wife, and extended family?


----------



## TedRabb

clb0208 said:


> My husband did not confront me at all. I confronted him when I discovered the frequent, long conversations he was having with his former employee. He tried hiding it until the evidence was undeniable. He told me that he was unwilling to break off the communication, because he felt a connection with her. He said he was unsure of his feelings, but was leaning towards getting a divorce because he felt like he no longer thought we were capable of that type of connection.
> 
> I would caution you that by using this "round about" approach you describe, you are allowing her to have hope that things are fixable. If you are certain that things between you are irreparable then you may be prolonging her pain by giving her this hope. As I mentioned before, she probably already suspects your infidelity, so I would be willing to bet that she will ask you about this even if you do not bring it up. Then, assuming you follow through with honesty, will be forced to discuss your relationship with the OW anyway. My husband's arguments would have been much more believable had he been the one to approach me with the subject, rather than wait to get caught. It left the question of "how long were you planning on doing this to me?" linger for a long time. It even left me with a guilty feeling of blame. I began thinking we would still be married to this day if I had just never confronted him about the OW. Maybe he would have realized he was wrong and cut it off, we may have rediscovered our love for each other and lived happily ever after, if I would have just kept my mouth shut... This twisted thought process made sense at the time, however ridiculous it may be.
> 
> No one can predict how your wife will respond to the news. It is likely that she will be unable to really control how she responds, and you need to understand that she is completely entitled to whatever response presents itself. Understand that you have been in control of this situation the entire time... Your purpose now is to allow her to regain some sense of control through being honest and taking responsibility of your actions. The only way she can do this is by having all of the information so she can come to terms with the true reality at hand. By only giving her bits and pieces of the situation, you are presenting a distorted picture of this reality and setting her up for failure.


Thanks for your response. I value your advice, as opposed to some on here who would prefer label me an evil narcissistic a-hole while they dole out their wisdom.

At least part of my intention in first just opening the door to talking about our marriage is to try to soften the blow somewhat by having her think about how our marriage is going and start talking about that. Then within a short time (2 weeks) after seeing where discussions might go...eg suggestions of MC, shutting down completely, ignoring it, getting angry... get to a point where I let her know that I think it is over and why. This way as opposed to just a heavy hammer blow one day out of the blue... that seems to be what most posters think I should do.


----------



## TedRabb

Diana7 said:


> I didn't say they need to be told all the details of the divorce but they do need to be told the truth. That their dad has met another woman and will be moving out. They will find out soon enough anyway and it will make things far worse if they were lied to. My dad lied to me and my brother when we were in our teens, but we still knew something was going on and the lying was almost as bad as the cheating. I lost a lot of respect for him through those lies.
> The children are adults or near adults. If they were small children that would be different.


Thank you. From someone who has been through that as a child I value that. See it's not that hard to be cordial is it!


----------



## TedRabb

Beach123 said:


> No marriage could compete with the fantasy of being with a 34 year old who provides you good sex.
> 
> Be realistic. Your fantasy far outweighs the reality of your marriage.
> 
> 
> What will you do when your 30's bride also succumbs to the dull life of marriage?


I'm older than her so she will probably dump me when I am no longer of use, I'll return and give you the news so you can rejoice.

But I don't connect with my wife intellectually now and I think I can with my OW, we are much more alike that way. And from the get go my wife and I never had the physical connection that I have with the OW. I hope both of these things hold a new relationship in good stead. I have a much better idea now what should make a good marriage. Even though there are still children and boring day to day stuff involved in a new relationship, I think we should be in a better position to be able to devote time and energy to each other.

Time will tell if it will be enough... I've talked to the OW about these things. I think it is/was hard to keep the flame alive with my wife (any wife) when we all go through so much morphing from lovers into parents and the absolute full time attention building a life and raising a family takes. I obviously failed at keeping the flame alive.


----------



## TedRabb

sunsetmist said:


> Title: I am about to create a storm in my life (firestorm). His last question: Do you think I am making a right decision?
> 
> He is a thinker and enjoys debate.
> 
> This thread created a plethora of early responses--mostly related to honesty and morals. However, OP has, for all practical purposes, already left the marriage--even though on one occasion, he calls it Happy Family Life???. He progressed from porn to paid sex to online hook-ups.
> 
> He just wants to leave under sort of false pretenses and maybe some trickle-truth if necessary. He and OW will separate for a while to give some semblance of propriety. But they met up for twice a month sex for six months. Imagine---now there is emotional attachment--3 months.
> 
> He said, "What's done is done." He didn't, in the beginning expect this outcome. (Where has TAM heard this before?)
> 
> Bottom-line is he is 49, has had problems in functioning sexually in the past, and now he has "seen the Garden of Eden and the world no longer looks the same." He has found sex that is not just good, but is great. This is the entire focus of his life right now. Remember, the throne of England was abdicated for such as this. For him, right decision question involves maybe last chances for great sex--not family or pretty much anything else.
> 
> Let's hope nothing really serious happens to rain on his parade/dream. In his ideal world, he could have a harem and retire current (no attraction, but some need to take care of) wife to senior status.
> 
> Again, please let us know how this works out.....


It is a happy family life. There is no unhappiness, just unfulfillment and the fact that it should and could be better.

After 20 years being unfulfilled sexually and emotionally it sure is tempting to desire some more of what can be great about relationships between men and women...maybe that is over-riding all other considerations.

I don't want a harem, most men would agree that one woman is more than enough trouble.

These are my choices:
- Stay in M, carry on as is, don't tell of affair and leave OW - I couldn't do that.
- Stay in M, carry on as is, don't tell of affair and keep OW hanging - I couldn't do that, plenty do I imagine.
- Tell of M problem, try to work on it, don't tell of affair and leave OW - I don't think there is enough of the M to save and I could not credibly be attempting to fix the M without disclosing the truth of the affair.
- Tell of affair, W will decide...or I will leave anyway. OW may or may not be there for me.

It is pretty clear what the choice has to be.


----------



## TedRabb

personofinterest said:


> Yes, Narcissism. Lack of empathy. Arrogance and condescension. When someone is never wrong, it is futile to point out their wrong.


LOL you guys are hilarious. The more I read about what narcissism is the more I realise you have NFI.

I have admitted to plenty of wrongs on here, and have said I feel for what will be the consequences of my actions and likely future decisions. That does not mean those decisions need not be taken .. It's a shame comprehension is not your strong suit either as your post count will give your comments some unwarranted authority on here.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

TedRabb said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Narcissism. Lack of empathy. Arrogance and condescension. When someone is never wrong, it is futile to point out their wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL you guys are hilarious. The more I read about what narcissism is the more I realise you have NFI.
> 
> I have admitted to plenty of wrongs on here, and have said I feel for what will be the consequences of my actions and likely future decisions. That does not mean those decisions need not be taken .. It's a shame comprehension is not your strong suit either as your post count will give your comments some unwarranted authority on here.
Click to expand...

Where are you reading about narcissism, The Urban Dictionary? Just using a baseline definition of narcissism on Wikipedia. Go to traits. I conservatively was able to check off 7 of the traits from the posts on here alone.

I think what you are misunderstanding is that it's not really even your actions of the affair that paint the narcissistic picture ... It's your frame of mind about the whole thing.


----------



## TedRabb

stillfightingforus said:


> Where are you reading about narcissism, The Urban Dictionary? Just using a baseline definition of narcissism on Wikipedia. Go to traits. I conservatively was able to check off 7 of the traits from the posts on here alone.
> 
> I think what you are misunderstanding is that it's not really even your actions of the affair that paint the narcissistic picture ... It's your frame of mind about the whole thing.


Thanks. What is your hourly rate? Please send your qualifications through with your invoice. Good job using words on a forum to come to a diagnosis.


----------



## TedRabb

btw I think your frame of mind is revealed by your username.


----------



## Mr.Married

TedRabb said:


> Thanks. What is your hourly rate? Please send your qualifications through with your invoice. Good job using words on a forum to come to a diagnosis.


You just perfectly validated his point.


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> A narcissist will not tell his children anything that puts him in a bad light. They are an extension to himself and part of his admiration supply.


Well his wife will probably tell them anyway which will make him look worse because he lied to them.


----------



## Diana7

TedRabb said:


> It is a happy family life. There is no unhappiness, just unfulfillment and the fact that it should and could be better.
> 
> After 20 years being unfulfilled sexually and emotionally it sure is tempting to desire some more of what can be great about relationships between men and women...maybe that is over-riding all other considerations.
> 
> I don't want a harem, most men would agree that one woman is more than enough trouble.
> 
> These are my choices:
> - Stay in M, carry on as is, don't tell of affair and leave OW - I couldn't do that.
> - Stay in M, carry on as is, don't tell of affair and keep OW hanging - I couldn't do that, plenty do I imagine.
> - Tell of M problem, try to work on it, don't tell of affair and leave OW - I don't think there is enough of the M to save and I could not credibly be attempting to fix the M without disclosing the truth of the affair.
> - Tell of affair, W will decide...or I will leave anyway. OW may or may not be there for me.
> 
> It is pretty clear what the choice has to be.


yes it is, tell you wife what you have been doing. Let her decide.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

TedRabb said:


> btw I think your frame of mind is revealed by your username.


You are quickly becoming my new favorite character on TAM. Just can't decide who takes the top spot yet?

1. Yourself
2. Got a divorce, keeps a pool of available women that he flirts with to keep his young wife on her toes and abandoned his kid because it's a lost cause, Guy.
3. Or left his wife because she wouldn't have sex with him during her sickness for a younger woman and now wanted to come back and brag about it to the people who told him it wouldn't work a year ago, Guy.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

TedRabb said:


> Thank you so much for your post, I really appreciate the time you spent on it for me.
> 
> My girls are mid to older teens.... I still don't know if they need to know the sordid details just yet. You sound like a very balanced person and do not hold your hurt over the loss of your marriage against the well being of your children, you wonderful for being that strong person.
> 
> I know my wife does not deserve to have her life turned upside down, bit she also does deserve to have someone love her fully, like I feel I can't.
> 
> I don't want to be the guy who strings along an OW for years... I told her a while back to make sure she keeps me accountable to make a decision. That's why I'm doing something 3 months only after of professing feelings for the OW. As my counsellor said, I can't walk 2 paths at once.
> 
> I do have a question though. *My plan was/is to first just tell my wife of the problems I feel in the marriage and to ask her to look critically at where we are in our day to day encounters, our lack of deep emotional connections, our lack of physical connection - just to alert her that I have been thinking and don't think everything is OK.* I don't feel I can just drop the nuclear bomb of the affair out of the blue. What are your thoughts on this? Did your husband drop it on you from nowhere? or did you have a history of discussions and an understanding that there were problems in the marriage. I think I'll read back through your thread it is probably answered in there.
> 
> Thanks again.


I don't know what age would be a good age, maybe no age? Your girls are forming opinions on men. Not good for them to think men cheat on women and that it is ok. 

The part I bolded, the time for that big conversation would of been BEFORE you cheated. Did she get that conversation?


----------



## FieryHairedLady

LOL that the Op doesn't like @Diana7 & @aine

Buddy you have no clue.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

TedRabb said:


> Thank you. From someone who has been through that as a child I value that. *See it's not that hard to be cordial is it!*





TedRabb said:


> Thanks for your response. I value your advice, as opposed to some on here who would prefer label me an evil narcissistic a-hole while they dole out their wisdom.


Quit being condescending to the other posters. They are taking their valuable time to respond to your thread. If you don't like their responses, head on over to the cheater forums!

I am sure they would welcome you with open arms.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Ok, I am going to try and leave the sarcasm out of this post:

The OW is a ****. She has been having multiple sexual relations with other men, with you a married man, and who knows who and what else. 

She is in an alleged "open marriage", which in and of itself is disgusting. Why bother being married?

She is showing her kid it is ok to be a *****. 

Let me think, what else.

Oh, I can't remember the exact wording, but she is from another culture that is normally very restrictive? That really looks down on promiscuous women?

And she still is a ****?

How does this happen?

This is not some woman who is in a bad marriage who fell into sin, which is bad enough... this woman is a gold digging ****, a *****.

Cut this relationship off immediately she is leading you to ruin.


Come clean with your wife, let her decide what she wants to do with you.

She just may give you a good hard kick in the ass and take everything from you. Or she may be willing to work on this marriage. 

Her choice.


----------



## Tron

Wow IL!

Those are pretty strong feelings for someone you know very little about. And without sarcasm no less.

Might be time to take a break from this thread; it seems to be bringing out the worst in you. Sheesh!



Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Ok, I am going to try and leave the sarcasm out of this post:
> 
> The OW is a ****. She has been having multiple sexual relations with other men, with you a married man, and who knows who and what else.
> 
> She is in an alleged "open marriage", which in and of itself is disgusting. Why bother being married?
> 
> She is showing her kid it is ok to be a *****.
> 
> Let me think, what else.
> 
> Oh, I can't remember the exact wording, but she is from another culture that is normally very restrictive? That really looks down on promiscuous women?
> 
> And she still is a ****?
> 
> How does this happen?
> 
> This is not some woman who is in a bad marriage who fell into sin, which is bad enough... this woman is a gold digging ****, a *****.
> 
> Cut this relationship off immediately she is leading you to ruin.
> 
> 
> Come clean with your wife, let her decide what she wants to do with you.
> 
> She just may give you a good hard kick in the ass and take everything from you. Or she may be willing to work on this marriage.
> 
> Her choice.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Tron said:


> Wow IL!
> 
> Those are pretty strong feelings for someone you know very little about. And without sarcasm no less.
> 
> Might be time to take a break from this thread; it seems to be bringing out the worst in you. Sheesh!


You may be right. But this guy needs to wake up. He is headed on a path of destruction, someone needs to warn him.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> You may be right. But this guy needs to wake up. He is headed on a path of destruction, someone needs to warn him.


I agree with Tron, he is getting a kick out of the trolling now, so for some it may be a good time to get off. He's not going to 'wake-up' or listen. Now I'm just here for the clownshow to see someone who brought a knife the a battle of wits gunfight


----------



## Tron

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> You may be right. But this guy needs to wake up. He is headed on a path of destruction, someone needs to warn him.


I don't disagree with you, he's clearly on the path to completely destroy his marriage. But I'm not sure calling his AP all sorts of vileness is going to wake him up or keep him from doing it.

Ted, at this point you have become what we call a serial cheater. The blame for that pretty much rests with you. Not your marriage. Not your LD wife. Not sure how you got there mentally, but it is something you probably should look into. Maybe some IC. 

It also seems pretty clear that you are in the fog with this other woman, who by all accounts has some pretty serious character flaws herself. 

I mean from the outside you two should be perfect together. You both seem to cheat with impunity. What could possibly go wrong?


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## FieryHairedLady

Tron said:


> I don't disagree with you, he's clearly on the path to completely destroy his marriage. But I'm not sure calling his AP all sorts of vileness is going to wake him up or keep him from doing it.
> 
> Ted, at this point you have become what we call a serial cheater. The blame for that pretty much rests with you. Not your marriage. Not your LD wife. Not sure how you got there mentally, but it is something you probably should look into. Maybe some IC.
> 
> It also seems pretty clear that you are in the fog with this other woman, who by all accounts has some pretty serious character flaws herself.
> 
> I mean from the outside you two should be perfect together. You both seem to cheat with impunity. What could possibly go wrong?


I see what you are saying, if his AP was here I would have something different to say to her, but she is not so I wasn't worried about being rude or hurting her feelings.

But this guy needs to wake up, she has slept with multiple, multiple people. She is a serial cheater. 

My words may of been harsh, but I was hoping something would shock him into reality.

Maybe it won't? :frown2:


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## FieryHairedLady

stillfightingforus said:


> I agree with Tron, he is getting a kick out of the trolling now, so for some it may be a good time to get off. He's not going to 'wake-up' or listen. Now I'm just here for the clownshow to see someone who brought a knife the a battle of wits gunfight


Ok so should I run and get the popcorn? :wink2:


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## Beach123

You keep trying to find a way to be even more dishonest with your wife.

Any wife will naturally be thinking "we need to work on this" or. "We can fix this"


Yet you already checked out and have no intention of improving the marriage you helped destroy.

So don't sit there and give her false hope by lying even more. Be honest.


And every time I try to encourage you to be a man and be honest you avoid the honest approach by trying to come up with some new plan to trick your wife even further!

No wonder that marriage didn't work. You didn't do YOUR part in it!

And expect the same results with any new relationship unless YOU start participating totally opposite from what you've done before.


But it all starts with you. Tell your wife so she doesn't blame herself for what YOU'VE done. Be honest!

Start growing and learning how to be decent and kind.


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## 3Xnocharm

Be honest and tell your wife about the OW, then divorce her. Don't leave it up to her, because if she wants to stick this out and try to make it work, that isn't what you want. All that would do is break her further, surely you don't really want that. 

Your OW sounds like a professional cheater. Don't think for one moment that if you commit to her, that she isn't going to be doing the exact thing to you. 

Coming here and looking down your cheater's nose at the posters here trying to advise you is very off putting. Many of us here have been through hell and stick around here trying to help other people from going through the same. You would do well to check yourself sir.


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## Stormguy2018

stillfightingforus said:


> The problem here unfortunately, is that the OP is part of an Elite Class on TAM known as what I would call as the 'Enlightened'.
> 
> Whatever we tell the enlightened, they have heard before. They know what we don't and never could. They can predict the future and turn outcomes that are of certainty one way and covert them into another way, that yields an outcome desirable to themselves. Collateral damage to friends and family are of no consequence and they should generally just be grateful that the Enlightened already thought all of this through and was humble enough to make life decisions on all of their behalf.
> 
> I have been on here for almost a year now and am grateful for the advice that was given to me and enjoy helping out where I can but there is something that I have learned in the past year about this special class of TAM Wizards ... my puny intellect pales in comparison to them and thus I sadly bow out of attempting to give advice, when it's no use to the TAM Enlightened. I can only rejoice that we are in their masterful presence.


Excellent!


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## Beach123

We get that you are about to create a storm in"your life".

After all - it is all about you and how you feel, right?


Well... stop for a minute and remember that you are about to create a full blown hurricane for YOUR wife and kids!

It's ALL on you. You could have/should have asked for a divorce BEFORE having an affair if you weren't happy! Why didn't you do it then?

So be honest! She/they will find out eventually anyway!!!

Proper order is key. (That's typed for those that are "considering" an affair to solve their problems in the marriage!)

You did this - own it! ... or continue being a coward! No OW will respect a coward.


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## brettyboo

Hi OP,

Intimacy is not sex. You lacked intimacy with your wife because you didnt connect with her emotionally - that's a skill that you can learn. I've read all your posts and your typically matter of fact responses indicate you could learn a thing or two about communication in marriage.

If you dont learn to connect emotionally in a nonsexual way, no relationship can last.

"Do you think I am making the right decision in starting the process to leave my wife?"

She definitely deserves better, but not yet. I think there may be hope for a great but different relationship with her if you listen to what many have said here and end the affair. I know you dont want to, but that relationship has a rocky foundation. Then grieve if you have to, and get some counselling. A counsellor will guide you through the process so you are sure you know what to do.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Beach123

I agree that the OP has a lot to learn about intimacy and effective communication.

Individual counseling is necessary for you to grow and learn about yourself. Also how not to cheat in your future relationships. How to explain to your partner what your needs are and how to ask your partner how to keep her happy as well.

Without this growth I don't think any of your relationships will flourish long term.

Nothing changes if nothing changes, ya know?


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## TedRabb

brettyboo said:


> Hi OP,
> 
> Intimacy is not sex. You lacked intimacy with your wife because you didnt connect with her emotionally - that's a skill that you can learn. I've read all your posts and your typically matter of fact responses indicate you could learn a thing or two about communication in marriage.
> 
> If you dont learn to connect emotionally in a nonsexual way, no relationship can last.
> 
> "Do you think I am making the right decision in starting the process to leave my wife?"
> 
> She definitely deserves better, but not yet. I think there may be hope for a great but different relationship with her if you listen to what many have said here and end the affair. I know you dont want to, but that relationship has a rocky foundation. Then grieve if you have to, and get some counselling. A counsellor will guide you through the process so you are sure you know what to do.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


I clearly said there is communication problems. 
My ic has not encouraged or suggested we should undergo mc. I will ask him why in our next session.


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## TedRabb

I've said i know i should tell my wife of the affair. It seems most suggest telling straight out with a hard blow rather than via a softer approach over a few weeks.


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## TedRabb

I'm interested in these people calling the ow a serial cheater and all sorts of derogatory names that are *****'d out. Don't really understand it tbh.

I said she never cheated on her H. He always knew what was happening and he did his own thing. They had not had sex for over 5 years and he was living out of the house for alot of the time. 

I personally don't think anyone having a few sexual partners over a multiple year period is such a big deal... but that's just me. 

Why be married? For the child, for cultural/family reasons, to support H going through health issues (now finished), for support both being on a foreign land. Alot of people here see things in a very black and white fashion.


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## Beach123

You seem to believe everything she tells you.


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## aine

TedRabb said:


> I'm interested in these people calling the ow a serial cheater and all sorts of derogatory names that are *****'d out. Don't really understand it tbh.
> 
> I said she never cheated on her H. He always knew what was happening and he did his own thing. They had not had sex for over 5 years and he was living out of the house for alot of the time.
> 
> I personally don't think anyone having a few sexual partners over a multiple year period is such a big deal... but that's just me.
> 
> Why be married? For the child, for cultural/family reasons, to support H going through health issues (now finished), for support both being on a foreign land. Alot of people here see things in a very black and white fashion.


Ted or perhaps you only see and hear what you want to see and hear. Can so many people have got it wrong? Think about it.
Tell your wife the truth, better a hard blow than trickle truth and more lies. Haven’t you lied enough. It will hurt but at least it will help her to find her anger and get over you and your mistreatment of her. To lead her on not knowing what exactly was the tipping point is mean and hurtful. We all know that spouses never leave unless someone else is waiting in the wings, selfishness and all that.


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## sunsetmist

aine said:


> Tell your wife the truth, better a hard blow than trickle truth and more lies. Haven’t you lied enough. It will hurt but at least it will help her to find her anger and get over you and your mistreatment of her. To lead her on not knowing what exactly was the tipping point is mean and hurtful. *We all know that spouses never leave unless someone else is waiting in the wings, selfishness and all that*.


Agree except for bolded. We don't ALL know anything. And NEVER is unfair and more. I divorced because I finally gathered the energy and courage to leave an emotionally abusive marriage--NO ONE in wings or anywhere else! I decided to take care of me and mine, but that was hardly selfish.


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## TedRabb

sunsetmist said:


> aine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell your wife the truth, better a hard blow than trickle truth and more lies. Haven’t you lied enough. It will hurt but at least it will help her to find her anger and get over you and your mistreatment of her. To lead her on not knowing what exactly was the tipping point is mean and hurtful. *We all know that spouses never leave unless someone else is waiting in the wings, selfishness and all that*.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree except for bolded. We don't ALL know anything. And NEVER is unfair and more. I divorced because I finally gathered the energy and courage to leave an emotionally abusive marriage--NO ONE in wings or anywhere else! I decided to take care of me and mine, but that was hardly selfish.
Click to expand...

Agree. What a bizarre comment


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## TedRabb

Beach123 said:


> You seem to believe everything she tells you.


I am at core a trusting person. I have had follow up discussions on most topics over a time that all check out. 
If you don't believe what people tell you how do your progress in any relationship?


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## TedRabb

aine said:


> TedRabb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested in these people calling the ow a serial cheater and all sorts of derogatory names that are *****'d out. Don't really understand it tbh.
> 
> I said she never cheated on her H. He always knew what was happening and he did his own thing. They had not had sex for over 5 years and he was living out of the house for alot of the time.
> 
> I personally don't think anyone having a few sexual partners over a multiple year period is such a big deal... but that's just me.
> 
> Why be married? For the child, for cultural/family reasons, to support H going through health issues (now finished), for support both being on a foreign land. Alot of people here see things in a very black and white fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> Ted or perhaps you only see and hear what you want to see and hear. Can so many people have got it wrong? Think about it.
> Tell your wife the truth, better a hard blow than trickle truth and more lies. Haven’t you lied enough. It will hurt but at least it will help her to find her anger and get over you and your mistreatment of her. To lead her on not knowing what exactly was the tipping point is mean and hurtful. We all know that spouses never leave unless someone else is waiting in the wings, selfishness and all that.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I don't think you were responding to what you quoted but i understand how you think my wife should find out about the OW.


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## aine

Bizarre comment; granted because it’s badly worded. I meant the majority of cheaters will never leave a marriage unless the AP is waiting for them in the wings. They will just continue to cheat having the benefits of their marriage relationship. It’s called cake eating. Of course people leave marriages for all sorts of reasons including abuse, alcoholism, etc.


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## aine

You said”if you don’t believe what people tell you how do you progress in the relationship?”

Well couldn’t that same thinking be applied to your marriage. How could your marriage have survived your lying and cheating. How could it progress when your poor wife probably suspected all along in her gut that you were lying to her about where you were, what you were doing, who you were meeting, the inconsistencies in your stories, your coverups, etc. You seem to have a very clear sense of how you should be treated but it seems one rule for you and one rule for her. 

I am actually tired of your obtuseness ( I am being kind). I do hope that you will one day learn personally about the pain you have been inflicting and will inflict on your wife. I believe your AP will teach you what’s it’s like on the other side of infidelity. You need it as a learning experience so that you can become a better person cause right now ....well........


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## TedRabb

aine said:


> You said”if you don’t believe what people tell you how do you progress in the relationship?”
> 
> Well couldn’t that same thinking be applied to your marriage. How could your marriage have survived your lying and cheating. How could it progress when your poor wife probably suspected all along in her gut that you were lying to her about where you were, what you were doing, who you were meeting, the inconsistencies in your stories, your coverups, etc. You seem to have a very clear sense of how you should be treated but it seems one rule for you and one rule for her.
> 
> I am actually tired of your obtuseness ( I am being kind). I do hope that you will one day learn personally about the pain you have been inflicting and will inflict on your wife. I believe your AP will teach you what’s it’s like on the other side of infidelity. You need it as a learning experience so that you can become a better person cause right now ....well........


Not sure why you go back again to my marriage in the second paragraph. I've already admitted my fault in the marriage. There was no lying and cheating for 18 years of the marriage, not once. But it still eventually got to a bad place and i reacted in the wrong way by straying physically and then emotionally from the marriage. I accept responsibility for that. 
The question to beach was just about believing the ow. Why wouldn't i believe her? 
I won't respond to your personal opinions of me or your want for me to feel pain.


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## Beach123

TedRabb said:


> Not sure why you go back again to my marriage in the second paragraph. I've already admitted my fault in the marriage. There was no lying and cheating for 18 years of the marriage, not once. But it still eventually got to a bad place and i reacted in the wrong way by straying physically and then emotionally from the marriage. I accept responsibility for that.
> The question to beach was just about believing the ow. Why wouldn't i believe her?
> I won't respond to your personal opinions of me or your want for me to feel pain.


Just because you didn't cheat for 18 years doesn't make it ok that you have now been lying, cheating and destroying your wife and family - along with plotting and planning against the whole family unit.

How can you believe your OW? Ya, same way your wife has believing you all through these cheating months.

You get it? People lie... and when you wish so bad to believe their version of the truth - somehow a person finds them believable - just like your wife has been believing you these past months.

But deep down you know what you've been doing - deceiving her - and don't think it's impossible that OW hasn't been lying to you too.

Certainly you're smarter than that, right?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TedRabb said:


> I am at core a trusting person. I have had follow up discussions on most topics over a time that all check out.
> If you don't believe what people tell you how do your progress in any relationship?


Now that's a bizarre comment, coming from a cheater who is deliberately engaging in ongoing deceit himself... and, of all things, against the one person he promised to cherish and protect most. 

Does not compute. Not one little bit.


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## Beach123

I do see the denial - add in a mix of being delusional... it's hard to believe you can actually believe her.

In fact you have every reason not to believe the OW.


Please... divorce your wife but don't be with any woman until you finish years of individual counseling by going every week.


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## Beach123

How often do you take your wife out on a nice date or even a weekend away?

When was the last time you did that?


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## TedRabb

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> TedRabb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am at core a trusting person. I have had follow up discussions on most topics over a time that all check out.
> If you don't believe what people tell you how do your progress in any relationship?
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's a bizarre comment, coming from a cheater who is deliberately engaging in ongoing deceit himself... and, of all things, against the one person he promised to cherish and protect most.
> 
> Does not compute. Not one little bit.
Click to expand...

I must be thick. Please explain why it is bizarre to start from a position of trust in what another says? I don't blindly accept everything said, if things don't seem right i ask more questions and make judgment then.
Do you go around mistrusting everything people say to you?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TedRabb said:


> I must be thick. Please explain why it is bizarre to start from a position of trust in what another says? I don't blindly accept everything said, if things don't seem right i ask more questions and make judgment then.
> Do you go around mistrusting everything people say to you?



Your first insight into humanity is yourself. You cheat. Knowing that _you_ are not trustworthy, why would you start with a baseline of trust for others? Of do you openly accept as fact that your trustworthiness is so far below that of the population at large? If so, why don't you do something to rejoin the human race?


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## clb0208

TedRabb said:


> The question to beach was just about believing the ow. Why wouldn't i believe her?


I think everyone is failing to recognize that our human nature is to follow the path of least resistance, especially in difficult circumstances. You are going to believe the OW because that is what is easy and feels good right now. You have to have concerns regarding this relationship. Your rational self has to see the low rate of success this relationship has for reasons including and beyond the infidelity. But all of those reasons don't feel good. Leaving your marriage doesn't feel good. You want to salvage some happiness to lessen the blow you will experience when this all goes down. However, this is not what is best for you. Everyone here sees that, but their advice is difficult to hear through the thick layer of condescension it is encased in. 

These are your options Ted... You can step away from your OW, take a good, hard look at yourself. FOCUS on what is truly important in your life at this time, which should be your kids and working together with your wife to make this transition into divorce as easy as possible. Having your OW around will not accomplish this. It will cause your mind to lose focus on those things. Let's not forget that the OW needs to do the EXACT same thing. If you believe her, then let her show you that she is willing to do the same as you. If she is there after it is all said and done, then she has earned your trust and you can go on living happily ever after knowing that you are both in it for the right reasons. 

Your other option is to continue following the path of least resistance and doing things that make it easier for you to get through this. You want to "lessen the blow" for your wife by giving her information like bread crumbs, when really that hurts her in the long run and only helps you feel better that you didn't blindside her. You can keep seeing this OW, who could honestly make things a lot worse for you in the long run. You like this option because she is a soft place to lay your head and will distract you from your reality. Again, Ted... this is all about what makes you feel good, not what is right. 

I'm not telling you this as a woman scorned, or some man-hater.... I'm telling you this because you should understand that your mind is playing tricks on you because that is what we do as human beings. We take the path of least resistance, even if it heads straight to our demise at the end of the day. Use this as an opportunity to evolve as a person... Be uncomfortable and go against your judgement on this. Afterall, your judgement is what got you into this mess in the first place.


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## Beach123

I'm going off of universal energy which says that "like energy attracts like energy".

And you've been lying and cheating... so that tells me you've attracted the same kind of energy.



Why didn't you answer about how you've been participating with your wife?


----------



## aine

Beach123 said:


> How often do you take your wife out on a nice date or even a weekend away?
> 
> When was the last time you did that?


To add: Ted, how much do you spend on your wife compared to the OW? When is the last time you bought something for your wife, e.g. flowers or a thoughtful gift?


----------



## TedRabb

clb0208 said:


> I think everyone is failing to recognize that our human nature is to follow the path of least resistance, especially in difficult circumstances. You are going to believe the OW because that is what is easy and feels good right now. You have to have concerns regarding this relationship. Your rational self has to see the low rate of success this relationship has for reasons including and beyond the infidelity. But all of those reasons don't feel good. Leaving your marriage doesn't feel good. You want to salvage some happiness to lessen the blow you will experience when this all goes down. However, this is not what is best for you. Everyone here sees that, but their advice is difficult to hear through the thick layer of condescension it is encased in.
> 
> These are your options Ted... You can step away from your OW, take a good, hard look at yourself. FOCUS on what is truly important in your life at this time, which should be your kids and working together with your wife to make this transition into divorce as easy as possible. Having your OW around will not accomplish this. It will cause your mind to lose focus on those things. Let's not forget that the OW needs to do the EXACT same thing. If you believe her, then let her show you that she is willing to do the same as you. If she is there after it is all said and done, then she has earned your trust and you can go on living happily ever after knowing that you are both in it for the right reasons.
> 
> Your other option is to continue following the path of least resistance and doing things that make it easier for you to get through this. You want to "lessen the blow" for your wife by giving her information like bread crumbs, when really that hurts her in the long run and only helps you feel better that you didn't blindside her. You can keep seeing this OW, who could honestly make things a lot worse for you in the long run. You like this option because she is a soft place to lay your head and will distract you from your reality. Again, Ted... this is all about what makes you feel good, not what is right.
> 
> I'm not telling you this as a woman scorned, or some man-hater.... I'm telling you this because you should understand that your mind is playing tricks on you because that is what we do as human beings. We take the path of least resistance, even if it heads straight to our demise at the end of the day. Use this as an opportunity to evolve as a person... Be uncomfortable and go against your judgement on this. Afterall, your judgement is what got you into this mess in the first place.


Thanks again.
I agree with nearly all of what you have said here. My rational self does know the relationship with the OW is based on a flimsy beginning. We do both know we should take time apart, everyone is telling us that and that is the intention.

I now accept that telling my wife straight out is the right way to go.

The path of least resistance?? Surely that would be stay in the marriage, get some IC and cover all the damage. Leaving the marriage there is plenty of resistance.


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## Stormguy2018

You remind me of a guy I used to know. Left his wife and three kids for another woman because the sex was so incredible. Got divorced, married her (she left her husband for him, who was number two).

Two years later she left him for another man.


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## RandomDude

Your predicament is amusing. I have no sympathy.

Sympathy for your wife and children however, and you deny that your marriage isn't a failure? lol

If you truly want to do the right thing, think other posters have already mentioned what you should do. It's your choice and your consequence to bear, just as this situation right now is yours to bear.


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## Beach123

When do you plan to tell your wife?


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## Tomara

You are doing exactly what my ex did to me. You haven’t a clue how this will affect your wife and kids. I can only say that time doesn’t heal all wrong doing on your part. You are forever damaging others and creating a nightmare for which they won’t recover from.

My children do not respect their father in the least. My daughter refers to him as a sociopath and she is dead on in her description.

Do what you must because deep down you are not going to be the one that is destroyed. But reading this whole thread reminds me that you don’t give a flying crap about anyone but yourself. 

You will answer for your actions one day.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aine

Ted, have you told your wife yet?
When are you going to tell your wife?


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## GHaynes

You're a coward. You didn't take good care of your marriage and it subsequently fell apart. Now you're painting your wife in a bad light in an effort to make yourself look better. It's not working. Gather what little respect you have for your wife and yourself and tell her the truth- that rather than fix things with her you stepped out. It will blow up in your face, but honestly, your wife deserves better.


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## Beach123

GHaynes said:


> You're a coward. You didn't take good care of your marriage and it subsequently fell apart. Now you're painting your wife in a bad light in an effort to make yourself look better. It's not working. Gather what little respect you have for your wife and yourself and tell her the truth- that rather than fix things with her you stepped out. It will blow up in your face, but honestly, your wife deserves better.


Sure... but this poster wants to blame anyone but himself.

Then at the same time has rose colored glasses on - when it comes to how this news will affect his relationship with his wife and kids.

Life isn't that simple when you have been calculated in your actions and decisions that cause harm to others you "claim to love".

There are consequences for his behavior. He's just not realistic about how it's going to play out long term.


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## Rick Blaine

Interesting how the OP rationalizes his disgusting behavior and then calls out those who are calling him out. But that is exactly the wayward mindset. Selfish. Reactive. Unreflective. 

Pages and pages have been drafted here over an issue that isn't complicated.


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## Beach123

Rick Blaine said:


> Interesting how the OP rationalizes his disgusting behavior and then calls out those who are calling him out. But that is exactly the wayward mindset. Selfish. Reactive. Unreflective.
> 
> Pages and pages have been drafted here over an issue that isn't complicated.


And his title to his thread is about him, his life.

He's already created that storm. It's been brewing a long time.

He just hasn't had consequences yet because he hasn't yet been honest.


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## aine

So Tedd, did you tell her?


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## Beach123

aine said:


> So Tedd, did you tell her?


He likely won't tell her. 

He disappeared here as soon as some posters started expecting him to start doing something about his mess.

Most cake eaters mainly prefer to keep their comfy life - while they continue eating their cake.


----------

