# Six Years Out



## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm an occasional lurker on TAM and rare poster. I've seen a couple threads where people in the early days after D-Day ask "how it will be". My answer is a muddled middle that is likely not going to inspire anyone.

My wife had a six-year-affair with an ex-boyfriend (OM #1). She had a ONS with another ex-boyfriend (OM #2). She recounted her "story" constantly with a friend online (OM #3), that eventually escalated to sexting. I found out about OM #1 by getting suspicious and spying on her electronically. We tried counseling, found out she was still in contact with OM #1 and lying to councilor. We tried again. I found out about OM #2 when she revealed it to OM #3 in an electronic chat. Then I figured out she had lunch with OM #1. I finally grew a backbone and asked for a divorce. She asked to reconcile and I gave her one more shot, because we had young kids.

Since then, our marriage has improved greatly improved and our kids are thriving. She's engaged and friendly, and we communicate about everything, no matter how difficult. Pretty much in all ways a good spouse. Well, except that she's not interested in sex, in part due to serious health issues and part because, well who knows. (Best case, she's just not that in to me.) We talk about it, but there's just nothing there.

For a long time I was very careful to monitor her electronically, and I've never found a trace of contact after that final time we agreed to reconcile. Gradually over time, I've eased way off, but I still do check from time to time.

How do I feel? As a husband, I'm lonely, bored, and not very happy. While I do love her, I don't trust her and probably never will, and I'll never shake the feeling that she's probably just taken it deeper underground, even if she's apparently been on the up-and-up ever since. As a father, I did the right thing. I'm there for my kids, we're very good co-parents, and I'm not missing my kids' lives.

Would I recommend staying to another BS? Some days, I'd say I'm very glad I did. Some days I feel like a pathetic chump. More the latter than the former.

How's that for an uninspired example?

Things I wish I had done in retrospect:
1) Grow a backbone from the get-go.
2) Not agree to reconcile without a clear definition of what it included and did not include.

Here's the problem I never solved:
If you love your kids more than anything and want to raise them in an intact family, then your threat to walk away will ring hollow to you and to your spouse => chump-hood.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Totally sorry you are here.
Now it is good you are realizing that you have options and are being introspective.
You will not like this but given what you have said, sigh, I believe it would be a good idea to DNA test ALL the kids.
You will need to know for possible medical emergencies like blood type ect.
Again I'm sorry.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

totallyconfused said:


> I'm an occasional lurker on TAM and rare poster. I've seen a couple threads where people in the early days after D-Day ask "how it will be". My answer is a muddled middle that is likely not going to inspire anyone.
> 
> *My wife had a six-year-affair with an ex-boyfriend (OM #1). She had a ONS with another ex-boyfriend (OM #2). She recounted her "story" constantly with a friend online (OM #3), that eventually escalated to sexting. I found out about OM #1 by getting suspicious and spying on her electronically. We tried counseling, found out she was still in contact with OM #1 and lying to councilor. We tried again. I found out about OM #2 when she revealed it to OM #3 in an electronic chat. Then I figured out she had lunch with OM #1.* I finally grew a backbone and asked for a divorce. She asked to reconcile and I gave her one more shot, because we had young kids.
> 
> ...


Allow me to be blunt...

How certain are you that your children are actually (biologically) YOUR children?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sadly the no sex part it is possible she is being loyal to another by not doing it with you.
Time to go get some consults with a few attorneys do not tell her.
She cheats and doesn't have sex with you not much to save.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

First off wow. You stayed after she had a six year affair. Can't say I would have been able to have done that. 

The fact she is a serial cheater makes me think she might be cheating again since she is not offering sex with you. I could be wrong but it just makes me wonder. 

I personally suggest you get out of that relationship. It just sounds like no matter how hard you try to do the right thing your always on the loosing side. I get staying for the kids but at some point they will see what you did and think to some degree that is normal and end up living with the same kind of stuff you did. 

Teach them the best lesson of all. Go be happy. Find real love. So them they can be strong and persue there dreams. 

Clay


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Allow me to be blunt...
> 
> How certain are you that your children are actually (biologically) YOUR children?


You can buy a DNA kit at WalMart, Amazon or about any drug store for $30. Swab the inside of your cheek and the kid's with a Q-tip and send it to a lab with $130 more. You're testing your wife, not the kids.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

GusPolinski said:


> Allow me to be blunt...
> 
> How certain are you that your children are actually (biologically) YOUR children?


Certain, due to timing, appearance, etc.

Wouldn't matter in any event, if you raise a child, they are your child, legally and in your heart.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

My maternal grandfather stayed for my mom after my whorish grandmother's A's and A child (my aunt)...thought it was the right and honorable thing to do.

Spent 50 more years in a hugely dysfunctional M that had severe negative impacts on both daughters and even the grandkids to some extent,especially my cousin.

I know you love your kids, but after the huge mess my mom's family has turned into over the years, I can't say I really see the validity to staying in a bad M for the kids....at the very least they end up having a bad relationship modeled to them, and they WILL know something is off no matter how hard you try to make it normal.

Long before I knew the full truth (which emerged during a fight between my mom and aunt after my grandmother passed about taking care of my grandfather), I knew there was something very off with my grandparent's M....coldness and resentment were easy to see.

And maybe the worst impact on me personally is the fact that I used to look at my grandfather as a hero as a kid....he was a major role model in my life.

After I found out what had really happened, I wasn't proud of his sacrifice for his kids....I was disgusted....he went from being one of the strongest men I had known to someone I viewed as pitiful.

I could go on in tremendous detail over all the things from my childhood that led to this reaction, but that would drag on too long.

The bottom line is that based on what I have seen and experienced in my family, I truly believe that staying in a bad M for kids is a huge mistake....the only reason to stay is because of love and IF the M can be repaired to a point that it is good and nurturing for both WS and BS.

A sexless M is not worth it IMO....and your kids probably pick up on the lack of emotional connection and intimacy between you two.

I know I noticed it with my grandparents from a young age....when the truth was accidentally revealed during that argument, it was a major 'A-HA' moment....everything I had seen or felt, but could never figure out why, about my grandparent's interactions finally made sense.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> My maternal grandfather stayed for my mom after my whorish grandmother's A's and A child (my aunt)...thought it was the right and honorable thing to do.
> 
> Spent 50 more years in a hugely dysfunctional M that had severe negative impacts on both daughters and even the grandkids to some extent,especially my cousin.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:
Life is too short not to live it.
You are going through the motions but hey it's your call.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Yeah go ahead and stay married until the kids turn 18 but don't whine when the marriage comes to an end and you are required to pay her for spousal support for up to 30% of your take home pay for an indefinite number of years. If you have an issue with resentment now, just wait until that scenario becomes a reality.


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

You're lonely, bored, not happy, get no sex and with a wife that had a 6 year affair?

Life's too short buddy. You'd probably even be able to parent your kids better if you weren't seemingly depressed due to the sham of a marriage you're in.

And women like this, cheat again. No doubt about that. Only question is when.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

totallyconfused said:


> Certain, due to timing, appearance, etc.
> 
> Wouldn't matter in any event, if you raise a child, they are your child, legally and in your heart.


Eh... if you say so. But fair enough either way, though you certainly wouldn't be the first guy to cite a resemblance in physical appearance as being THE thing that convinced him w/ respect to paternity... only to have been wrong.

As for the rest of it...

You reconciled. Your wife didn't. All she agreed to do is to end her involvement w/ other men, and that's assuming that she actually did so.

A true reconciliation would've involved her fully recommitting herself to you and to your marriage, and it naturally follows that that would've involved a more satisfying -- and frequent -- sexual component to your marriage. Unfortunately, you settled for much less. So you basically have three options now...

1. Leave your marriage.

2. Stay in your marriage and work to improve it, which will obviously require a willingness on your wife's part to do the same.

3. Stay in your marriage and change nothing.

Of the three, only the last has that "chump" feel to it, so you might as well go for one of the other two.

And I'm just curious... how old were your children when you discovered your wife's affairs? Were any of them ongoing at the time?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you put a var in her car? She kept the affair secret for a long time. She's slick. To keep it hidden now would be easy with hidden communications and help from cheaters sites on the internet.

How did you catch her the first time? She won't get caught that way again.

The nearly no sex marriage is a monster red flag. How long has that been going on? What is her physical problem and are you just taking her word for that?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

By the way, who did she cheat with and how did she know him?


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## Nawlins (Feb 25, 2015)

OP,
You started this journey in 2009. In 2011, you wrote about lack of intimacy in your relationship, although you did state she was NC with all three OMs. At this point, and not to sound cruel, you’ve given it a fair shot. Time to move on without her. You deserve to be completely happy in life, which includes a health sexual relationship. You deserve to have a trusting relationship. You don't have either. 

Do what you need to do to protect yourself, your assets, and your children. Make you plan and speak with an attorney, don’t say anything to your WS until you are ready to end it and move on. Please get those kids DNA tested. I understand you love them, but if one of them is not yours and you did not know it, it may weigh in your favor in divorce proceedings.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I've never heard anyone with your type of situation every say they were sorry they got divorced. 

It seems daunting but in a few years (maybe sooner) this could all be behind you and you could be much happier. 

Fear is a dream killer. I say go for a divorce. It seems like your wife isn't very happy either.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

totallyconfused said:


> I'm an occasional lurker on TAM and rare poster. I've seen a couple threads where people in the early days after D-Day ask "how it will be". My answer is a muddled middle that is likely not going to inspire anyone.
> 
> My wife had a six-year-affair with an ex-boyfriend (OM #1). She had a ONS with another ex-boyfriend (OM #2). She recounted her "story" constantly with a friend online (OM #3), that eventually escalated to sexting. I found out about OM #1 by getting suspicious and spying on her electronically. We tried counseling, found out she was still in contact with OM #1 and lying to councilor. We tried again. I found out about OM #2 when she revealed it to OM #3 in an electronic chat. Then I figured out she had lunch with OM #1. I finally grew a backbone and asked for a divorce. She asked to reconcile and I gave her one more shot, because we had young kids.
> 
> ...


Why did you post this TC?

For information purposes to help other posters?

To address the chump question?

As an outlet because you could?

Perhaps as an example of the melancholy of quiet desperation?

I respect your decision to try to give your kids an intact home. It's sad your actions were so unrequited.

Take care!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The odds a serial cheater quits cheating are slim and none.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

tom67 said:


> Sadly the no sex part it is possible she is being loyal to another by not doing it with you.


I've said time and time again that when a woman cheats, she's lost romantic interest in her S/O. Hence, the reason our man TC, et.al. report this problem. She may be being loyal to the OM but even if that's not the case, the tingle she had at one time for TC is now a chill. The girl is keeping him around for stability reasons and maybe for a few shids and giggles.
I can do no more than sanction the recommendation of other that he free himself from this hell. He's the only one that has the power to make that move. 
I believe a lot of men use the kids as an excuse to hang around hoping time and his love will cure the problem. It won't. For a woman, once the loving feeling is gone, it never returns. And believe me, the kids are not fooled. This kind of resentment permeates the surroundings.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

totallyconfused said:


> I'm an occasional lurker on TAM and rare poster. I've seen a couple threads where people in the early days after D-Day ask "how it will be". My answer is a muddled middle that is likely not going to inspire anyone.
> 
> My wife had a six-year-affair with an ex-boyfriend (OM #1). She had a ONS with another ex-boyfriend (OM #2). She recounted her "story" constantly with a friend online (OM #3), that eventually escalated to sexting. I found out about OM #1 by getting suspicious and spying on her electronically. We tried counseling, found out she was still in contact with OM #1 and lying to councilor. We tried again. I found out about OM #2 when she revealed it to OM #3 in an electronic chat. Then I figured out she had lunch with OM #1. *I finally grew a backbone and asked for a divorce. She asked to reconcile and I gave her one more shot, because we had young kids.
> *
> ...



Why would you give someone who is a habitual cheater second chance hell according to your post you given her almost 4 to 5 second chances but that's not what drives me crazy in your post it's the part highlighted in bold *staying for the kids *as a child who grew up in a divorce household what children need are two parents who love and respect one another or at the very least just respect each other what kids don't need is a parent whose a punching bag for the other....


I just don't understand why men put themselves through this type of hell for someone who can honestly be replaced..


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

TotallyConfused
If you have taken the brutal emotional and sexual beating that you have taken for 6-years solely for your children then you should be nominated for sainthood! Frankly, I do not think that you are doing your children that big of a favor. It boils down to the question of, *are the children better off with a father that has a less troubled emotional life or with two parents in the household and the father is like you posted below:*



> I'm lonely, bored, and not very happy. While I do love her, I don't trust her and probably never will, and I'll never shake the feeling that she's probably just taken it deeper underground, even if she's apparently been on the up-and-up ever since.
> 
> Some days I feel like a pathetic chump


The fact that it took you absorbing a LOT of shyt before you grew a backbone tells me that you have some work to do on t yourself because you/are were weak. Your wife had a six year affair with her ex-boyfriend, faked an R, had two more affairs before you remembered that you had two things in your scrotum? Now your wife wants nothing to do with you sexually. I think you did/are doing a lot of compromising with your self-respect for some reason.
However, you did say:




> “…our marriage has improved greatly improved and our kids are thriving. She's engaged and friendly, and we communicate about everything, no matter how difficult. Pretty much in all ways a good spouse


”

I just gave you my opinion but if you are willing to live under the conditions that you stated then my hat is off to you. I divorced my wife for one EA as soon as the time passed that the law allows. I will never be the number two man in my wife’s life for one year much less six years.

Totalconfused, I hope that you are working on yourself so that you get stronger with your self-respect and get more self-sufficient so that you do not need your wife for much of anything. That is not a real tough suggestion as you are not getting much from your wife right now. 

Your sacrifice for your children is admirable but you can sacrifice for them and get stronger within yourself also! You have suffered a horrendous emotional beating and you are too good of a man to endure more rejection and lack of a trustful marriage.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

totallyconfused said:


> I'm an occasional lurker on TAM and rare poster. I've seen a couple threads where people in the early days after D-Day ask "how it will be". My answer is a muddled middle that is likely not going to inspire anyone.
> 
> My wife had a six-year-affair with an ex-boyfriend (OM #1). She had a ONS with another ex-boyfriend (OM #2). She recounted her "story" constantly with a friend online (OM #3), that eventually escalated to sexting. I found out about OM #1 by getting suspicious and spying on her electronically. We tried counseling, found out she was still in contact with OM #1 and lying to councilor. We tried again. I found out about OM #2 when she revealed it to OM #3 in an electronic chat. Then I figured out she had lunch with OM #1. I finally grew a backbone and asked for a divorce. She asked to reconcile and I gave her one more shot,*I have no backbone*.
> 
> ...


You are the definition of a chump. I am not being hateful or derisive here. You feel like one because you are one. 


There is only so many mental gymnastics you can do to accept/deny who your wife is and the reality of your marriage. After a point, the facade breaks!!


As a father, you are there for the kids. That is really commendable and a huge sacrifice to your well being.But do you think you are setting the right example to them and how to deal with people who treat them like sh!t ? What would you advice your son if someone treats him like your wife treats you ?

At this point, I think you are the victim of your own fear.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I've said time and time again that when a woman cheats, she's lost romantic interest in her S/O. Hence, the reason our man TC, et.al. report this problem. She may be being loyal to the OM but even if that's not the case, the tingle she had at one time for TC is now a chill. The girl is keeping him around for stability reasons and maybe for a few shids and giggles.
> I can do no more than sanction the recommendation of other that he free himself from this hell. He's the only one that has the power to make that move.
> I believe a lot of men use the kids as an excuse to hang around hoping time and his love will cure the problem. It won't. For a woman, once the loving feeling is gone, it never returns. And believe me, the kids are not fooled. This kind of resentment permeates the surroundings.



Worth repeating, it is so clear when it's gone and the husband is hoping for spontaneous combustion to occur. The wife fills her role perhaps in every way but romantically, and does not miss it or want it with him, meanwhile the husband is hoping hoping hoping.

When a woman is into you, she wants you, she will even make the first move if you are a bit slow.

Its a sad thing to see, and a hard thing to watch when a man does not get it.



warlock07 said:


> At this point, I think you are the victim of your own fear.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I believe a lot of men use the kids as an excuse to hang around hoping time and his love will cure the problem."

Yep....and most of the time it ends up hurting the kids more, and in ways that last longer and can eventually cause problems in their future relationships because they see a totally f*cked up example of a M every day of their lives....a spouse who accept betrayal and eats a sh*t sandwich to stay....resentment...emotional distance.

Its the perfect recipe for instilling FOO issues in your kids.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> You are the definition of a chump. I am not being hateful or derisive here. You feel like one because you are one.
> 
> 
> There is only so many mental gymnastics you can do to accept/deny who your wife is and the reality of your marriage. After a point, the facade breaks!!
> ...


I totally Agree with this! I feel sorry for your kids for having a mother like this and a chump like you .


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

imjustwatching said:


> I totally Agree with this! I feel sorry for your kids for having a mother like this and a chump like you .


Ouch. It's funny how quickly posts here go from a qualifier "I'm not being hateful," or "I'm not being derisive here," straight into a spiteful kick in the nuts within a post or two. At least Warlock made valid points.

One sentence, dismissing both parents and the children being raised by them. Sure I feel sorry for the OP, but I also have to feel sorry for people who post things like this knowing what the OP has been through. Helpful? Nope. Adds to conversation? Nope. Flat out insult to a guy who has already been through the grinder... and insults his kids & their potential... and his wife? Yep! PILE ON THE GUY! YEAH!! This forum still hasn't learned the difference between tough love and insults. 

Best of luck, TC. For the record, I agree with most other posters. You've played the part of the loyal husband and father for long enough... make sure you're taking care of your own needs, and that your kids get to see your strength. You're only as chumpy as your behavior dictates... and the way you allow others to treat you.


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Sorry i'm not going to lie just to make him feel better , he's not a victim he's putting himself in this situation.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I think OP is totally confused.

No sex life. No thanks to that marriage.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Cabsy said:


> Ouch. It's funny how quickly posts here go from a qualifier "I'm not being hateful," or "I'm not being derisive here," straight into a spiteful kick in the nuts within a post or two. At least Warlock made valid points.
> 
> One sentence, dismissing both parents and the children being raised by them. Sure I feel sorry for the OP, but I also have to feel sorry for people who post things like this knowing what the OP has been through. Helpful? Nope. Adds to conversation? Nope. Flat out insult to a guy who has already been through the grinder... and insults his kids & their potential... and his wife? Yep! PILE ON THE GUY! YEAH!! This forum still hasn't learned the difference between tough love and insults.
> 
> Best of luck, TC. For the record, I agree with most other posters. You've played the part of the loyal husband and father for long enough... make sure you're taking care of your own needs, and that your kids get to see your strength. You're only as chumpy as your behavior dictates... and the way you allow others to treat you.


Cabsy, I agree that posters on TAM/CWI sometimes over do it, but I'm not seeing that here. Rather, the OP is being advised to reconsider (1) his decision to R, given his WW's extremely bad behavior and romantic disinterest in him, and (2) his belief that his kids will be better off if he keeps them under the same roof with both of their maritally dysfunctional parents.



imjustwatching said:


> Sorry i'm not going to lie just to make him feel better , he's not a victim he's putting himself in this situation.


imjustwatching, I think you've nailed it. Here's what the OP said in one of this other threads (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28077-sordid-road-reconciliation.html):



> Met my wife 17 years ago while she was married to H1. She had cheated on him with 3 ONS before we met. She moved out and divorced him a few months after we met. With the benefit of hindsight, I clearly enabled her fog in a classic way, with an EA while she was still married and PA after she moved in with her parents but before divorce was final. Karma's a *****.


Maybe the OP has stayed in this bad marriage because he realizes that he is partly responsible for it and for bringing his kids into it. If so, it's hard for me to say he's not doing the right thing.

In any case, I hope things work out for him.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

totallyconfused said:


> Certain, due to timing, appearance, etc.
> 
> Wouldn't matter in any event, if you raise a child, they are your child, legally and in your heart.


People have always said my oldest looks like my side of the family and is no question mine. Both my kids are adopted.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

Decorum said:


> Why did you post this TC?
> 
> For information purposes to help other posters?


Yes. Bit of a cautionary tale. Not so much to the frequent posters, but to those who are inclined to follow the route I took.



> To address the chump question?


Yes. Writing it down helps me process the thoughts and work through how I feel about the choices I've made and what I want to do about it.



> As an outlet because you could?


Yes. It's also a fairly simple way to express some thoughts and feelings. I'm not bothered by posts that harshly critique the choices I've made, although I find more wisdom in the nuanced responses that recognize the trade-offs but still end up recommending a different course of action than I chose.



> Perhaps as an example of the melancholy of quiet desperation?


It is that too. The kids are thriving and wonderful. The communication has been reestablished. But even the most-forgiving spouse loses the innocence of trusting the other, and the lack of intimacy is just crushing.



> I respect your decision to try to give your kids an intact home. It's sad your actions were so unrequited.
> 
> Take care!


Appreciate it.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

TC

I respect your choice.

You said your marriage has gotten better, your wife is more engaging.

Have you focused on the items you feel are lacking, communicated this to your wife and worked up a plan to resolve these issues together?

And did your wife ever do the work to understand what caused her to lie, cheat and have 3 affairs?

HM


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