# Talk to me about T testing



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hubby had his yearly physical yesterday. I had asked him to ask for testosterone testing because his sexual desire is declining. He is 47.

He was pissed off first of all, but then agreed.

He came home and triumphantly told me that the dr asked him a bunch of screening Q's and determined he doesn't NEED his T tested, and that the test is so inaccurate it doesn't mean anything anyway. He is having blood tests but has no idea what for. This is a man who never had a yearly physical until last year and refuses to ever believe there could actually be anything wrong with him.

OK fine. What I would like to know is whether there is something we can order online or something? Does anyone know anything about T testing? Should I just shut up and take the dr at their word and leave him alone? Is declining desire always a result of aging?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I know about this, through my own experiences in the screening Q's and T testing. 

He probably took the survey questionnaire (there is a section on men's health) and based on the score it indicated that he does not NEED to have this T tested.

Well, he can still WANT to have it tested. The test will include measurement of both free and total T and based on the numbered results it will indicate if low T is a problem. The medical definition of "low T" is a REALLY low T. I think below 250. Mine is in the high 400's and that is still LOW, but not low enough for shots or creams. I really want mine in high 500s and am trying the natural methods including zinc, selenium, eating more vegetables, more meat and weight training.

It is really important that you understand there is no formal definition of what is a low T. Some doctors consider 400 acceptable. Mine doctor said it is low. But the insurance company calls Low to be about 230-250 or lower. One doctor might say the T is fine while another may say it is low. No, do not take the doctor's word for it. I described my issues and MY DOCTOR mentioned possibly low T. The Q's are just a screening tool to determine if a test is needed. My doctor asked me if I wanted to have my T checked and I said yes. 

The tests are accurate but T levels can fluctuate even within the time of day of the blood test. But it will not fluctuate that much. 

Why the heck would he act "triumphantly" other than an in-your-face rebuttal to you? Jeez. To be honest, T testing is the primary reason I get annual blood work and have even had just the T tested at 6 month intervals. I am working to increase muscle mass and at my age T levels are important.

I guess your husband really does not care about his health or his sexual desire. The real problem is not your H's T levels but his whole attitude about his health, his sexual desire and his need to prove to you he is always right. 

Ask me more questions through this thread or PM me if you want.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Why the heck would he act "triumphantly" other than an in-your-face rebuttal to you? Jeez.
> 
> I guess your husband really does not care about his health or his sexual desire. The real problem is not your H's T levels but his whole attitude about his health, his sexual desire and his need to prove to you he is always right.


It's an ongoing issue, yes, and has more to do with just his T levels. He has a very immature attitude about a few things, one of which is anything that can be interpreted as being 'wrong' with him, including health issues. Other examples are his bad breath, his hearing, our sex life, and his eating habits, all of which suck but all of which if I mention in any way whatsoever I am met with hostility and total denial. Obviously not one of the qualities that endear him to me 

Anyway, I did know that the levels can fluctuate and that the results are open to interpretation, like any medical test really. I question his dr telling him that the results are meaningless though. I know that women can get hormone saliva test kits online and am wondering if men can too.

Oh, and we're in Canada if that makes any difference. I don't know if he would have to pay for the test since his dr says he doesn't need it? That's definitely possible, although my dr has never billed me for a test I asked for just because.


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

Seeing as his attitude is not conducive to an honest approach to his situation, I don't think he answered honestly on the questionnaire, or at the very least doesn't acknowledge or notice any difference in himself between now and a decade ago. Every man's T levels drop with age, some more than others depending on lifestyle choices. It inevitably happens, though, and I think your H may be in denial.

Now, there's always the debate about what is considered "low T". While "normal" T levels are relative to a man's age, the level at which treatment is warranted is dependent on a doctor's interpretation, and those can vary greatly. Most doctors weigh the symptoms of low T in the patients, get blood tests to verify levels, then send them to a urologist for further evaluation and / or treatment.

The cost to benefit ratio of TRT also has to be evaluated by the patient. TRT is rejected initially by most insurance companies, and some won't pay for it at all. My insurance pays for the doctor visits and the blood tests, but doesn't cover the prescription. It's no big deal however because it only costs me about $120 every 3-1/2 to 4 months, and it's definitely worth it to me.

I'm 54, and have been on TRT for over 4 years. I have to say that it changed me quite a bit. I had no clue about testosterone levels, and how they affect your energy level, libido, and mood. Once I started the TRT, it took about 3 to 4 months before I noticed a significant difference. My wife noticed a difference right away, as my temper was a little short at times, but after the initial couple of months it evened out. After 3 or 4 months, my libido (I was always HD, and hadn't noticed any real changes because they were gradual) came back strong, and with a passion I had been missing, plus I had more energy and zest for life. It felt like I was in my 30s again for the most part. Needless to say, I think it is worth it to me, and I always look forward to the injections twice weekly (.6 mcg each) strangely enough.

For some people that don't want to go that route, there are other ways to increase T levels, i.e. vigorous exercise (both aerobic and anaerobic) and supplements. I can't attest to the supplements, but I'm sure others on TAM can. I take daily doses of fish oil and saw palmetto. These increase my O intensity and pleasure.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

Hope, you'll probably find that you need to pay out of pocket and find a bioidentical hormone specialist. This is what we have done. Here's a page with a listing for Canada: Canada Bioidentical Doctors


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

If he did not clearly indicate that he thought he had a problem, the doctor would not have focused at all on this subject. 

Your H just does not care about his health, his appearance, his sex life, or his marriage. 

You can put "He refused to believe there could actually be anything wrong with him" on this tombstone when he dies at 50 years old. 

BTW: My wife has life threatening condition diagnosed at 41 years old.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> If he did not clearly indicate that he thought he had a problem, the doctor would not have focused at all on this subject.


 Exactly.



blueinbr said:


> Your H just does not care about his health, his appearance, his sex life, or his marriage.


It isn't that he doesn't care, it's that he is incapable of realizing he isn't perfect.

Anyway. I didn't start this thread to complain about him, I want to get educated about the whole T testing thing and the treatments for it.

Does any one know if there's a testing kit that can be ordered online? Or does it have to be ordered by a dr?

Also are injections the only way to treat it? I thought there were creams too?

Some great suggestions here so far - thanks so much everyone.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Well, before you get too far ahead on treatment and shots vs creams, he needs to have his T level properly tested. I had it done in US and it cost $90 since I did this as a stand alone test. I had it done another time at same time as physical and they did not charge me any extra. 

I guess you can google for home test kits and see what you find, but I certainly would not trust that kind of test. If the test gives you low T result or a FALSE low T result, then he can go to doctor to confirm. My concern for you is that he gets a FALSE high T result and therefore DOES NOT go to doctor. Then you are WORSE OFF then you are now. 

Bad breath can be a sign of a medical problem (like diabetes, liver failure etc), not just poor oral hygiene. That is one of the signs of my wife's serious medical condition, so I know first hand.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not sure about online kits. I know there are saliva kits for female hormones that you can get online. I'm not sure how accurate they really are. In order for him to have a decent blood reading T needs to be tested first thing in the morning. There are alternatives to shots, there is Androgel, an a few other topicals. There is a small risk of transfer with these and they are a ton more expensive. But the topicals tend to deliver a steadier dose than the shots from what I know.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Testosterone, Home testing is not available that I know of, But there are mail order labs, I never did figure out how you are supposed to get a big enough blood sample (venipuncture). I ended up paying for my testing and medication because my testosterone in "normal" (for a 70 year old). Meanwhile I have frank physical symptoms. 

Testosterone is part of desire but not all of it. My low testosterone never lowered my desire. It did make me irritable. Hormone therapy has had some weird side effects. I do need to stay on it as I'm kind of weird when I'm off. The physical damage is irreversible. And occurred while I waited for a year on insurance. 

Creams and gels are more expensive than injections.

I wish I had some good news for you. The Doctors Survey may have saved you some expensive testing. I think the low desire has it's roots elsewhere but that opinion is influenced by my experience.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> I wish I had some good news for you. The Doctors Survey may have saved you *some expensive testing.* I think the low desire has it's roots elsewhere but that opinion is influenced by my experience.


It is not expensive.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Perhaps not in Canada my initial test was over $200


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> Testosterone, Home testing is not available that I know of, But there are mail order labs, I never did figure out how you are supposed to get a big enough blood sample (venipuncture). I ended up paying for my testing and medication because my testosterone in "normal" (for a 70 year old). Meanwhile I have frank physical symptoms.
> 
> Testosterone is part of desire but not all of it. My low testosterone never lowered my desire. It did make me irritable. Hormone therapy has had some weird side effects. I do need to stay on it as I'm kind of weird when I'm off. The physical damage is irreversible. And occurred while I waited for a year on insurance.
> 
> ...


My Ex's gel cost $900 a tube, insurance did cover it though.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> Perhaps not in Canada my initial test was over $200


My blood test in US was $90 for Free T and Total T.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Oher issues are his bad breath, his hearing, our sex life, and his eating habits, all of which suck


My God women! What do you like in this guy? Why are you staying with him?

Sorry, but you are being very disrespectful. This is the guy you married, for better or worse, through good times and bad.

If this is the way you really feel about him, get a divorce.
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Back to the topic:

His T levels likely are probably normal. 

If he gets the T-Gel or the T-injections he will definitely perk up. 

His testes will shrink to nothing. 

T levels should be measured in the morning [when they are at the highest level]. 

Do this a few times to get a baseline.

As he ages his chances of cancer especially prostate cancer can go up. T does not cause cancer but can accelerate it, if it is present or develops.

Some men put on weight with T supplements, some lose wt. 

He will get fidgety, more prone to anger, and less tolerant of nagging wives.

He may have given up on his appearance because he just does not care. He is tired of the belittlement and the drama at home. 

Dunno. That is what comes across to me.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> My blood test in US was $90 for Free T and Total T.


Tharanos is going to revolutionize testing and taking ownership of your own health. 

https://www.theranos.com

Check out the prices: ~$35 for both T tests. 

https://www.theranos.com/test-menu


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

I have experience with this. My T was below ~140. That is very low but oddly my libido, though diminished from my youth, was still pretty strong. So your husband could be low like I was. But there are other long term health consequences to not getting treated. (bone density, muscle mass, weight gain, lack of drive, focus, and motivation, ect...)

But you don't want to go to your GP for this. Go to a clinic that specializes in mid-life hormone therapy and they will do a full panel of tests. If T is low, estrogen is probably high as T eats E for breakfest. Mine was around ~50 which is higher than many menopausal women. I take a weekly anti-estrogen and get T Pellets in my ass about ever 4 months. It would not be cheap if I did not have good insurance. Though with a T test as low as I have the insurance company has to cover it.

The result is I am whole lot less emotional, focused, and generally motivated to get out of bed and do something with my life. And yes, that libido thing is kicked up. It is not something you want to do if you are planning on having kids because it can, over time, make you sterile. The artificial T in your blood signals your Pituitary gland to back off and shut down on T production signals to the testicles. Unfortunately, the same chemicals also signal sperm production. And though it can be rebooted, eventually the machinery is shut down for too long to kick back on.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> Testosterone, Home testing is not available that I know of, But there are mail order labs, I never did figure out how you are supposed to get a big enough blood sample (venipuncture). I ended up paying for my testing and medication because my testosterone in "normal" (for a 70 year old). Meanwhile I have frank physical symptoms.
> 
> Testosterone is part of desire but not all of it. My low testosterone never lowered my desire. It did make me irritable. Hormone therapy has had some weird side effects. I do need to stay on it as I'm kind of weird when I'm off. The physical damage is irreversible. And occurred while I waited for a year on insurance.
> 
> ...



Would you mind sharing what weird side-effects you've had from T therapy? And what physical damage is irreversible? I'm also curious about why you think the low desire has its roots elsewhere? Sorry for all the questions, but this is a subject I'm really interested in and first person accounts are always more valuable, I find, than reading the advice that medical associations approve for our consumption.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Hubby had his yearly physical yesterday. I had asked him to ask for testosterone testing because his sexual desire is declining. He is 47.
> 
> He was pissed off first of all, but then agreed.
> 
> ...


ED can be a result of (no particular order) loss of desire with age, prostate issues or porn addiction. There are more but these are the three I've seen listed the most. The loss of desire may require spicing things up. Odd as it sounds, a sex therapist or relationship therapist could give pointers there. Prostate problems-does he urinate more frequently, especially at night? There are meds and herbs for that. Both conditions may also benefit from a little blue pill. Porn addiction; this creates an absurdly unrealistic expectations in the bedroom. Not too many people are married to a Swedish blond with 99 ZZZ breasts dressed in a baby-doll, eating a giant lollipop and begging daddy to punish her for being a bad girl with Yvette the French brunette with 99 ZZZ breasts in the classic maid uniform, but that seems to be the general fantasy generated by porn films. The failure of the fantasy to manifest results in something else not manifesting...


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Would you mind sharing what weird side-effects you've had from T therapy? And what physical damage is irreversible? I'm also curious about why you think the low desire has its roots elsewhere? Sorry for all the questions, but this is a subject I'm really interested in and first person accounts are always more valuable, I find, than reading the advice that medical associations approve for our consumption.


Read a thread called "Should I Just Cut My Losses Now??" started yesterday.

OP's husband was taking testosterone. He claimed that was the reason he was soliciting prostitutes for sex.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> Read a thread called "Should I Just Cut My Losses Now??" started yesterday.
> 
> OP's husband was taking testosterone. He claimed that was the reason he was soliciting prostitutes for sex.


I just read part of the thread and it looks to me like it had nothing to do with T replacement - he did the same thing while married to his first wife.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

WhyMe66 said:


> ED can be a result of (no particular order) loss of desire with age, prostate issues or porn addiction. There are more but these are the three I've seen listed the most. The loss of desire may require spicing things up. Odd as it sounds, a sex therapist or relationship therapist could give pointers there. Prostate problems-does he urinate more frequently, especially at night? There are meds and herbs for that. Both conditions may also benefit from a little blue pill. Porn addiction; this creates an absurdly unrealistic expectations in the bedroom. Not too many people are married to a Swedish blond with 99 ZZZ breasts dressed in a baby-doll, eating a giant lollipop and begging daddy to punish her for being a bad girl with Yvette the French brunette with 99 ZZZ breasts in the classic maid uniform, but that seems to be the general fantasy generated by porn films. The failure of the fantasy to manifest results in something else not manifesting...


The leading cause of ED is arteriosclerosis, to include, hardening of the arteries, narrowing of the blood vessels. 

Those small veins into the peter narrow and do not allow enough blood flow and pressure. The popular ED drugs open these veins up. 


There are other causes such as nerve damage from accidents to the spine, groin or both. These are less common and can be tested. 

Other reasons are the small valves that close off after Mr. Peter stands to attention. This keeps the "bloods in the hood". These can fail also.

Men having this problem should see their urologist. Most men find this humiliating and embarrassing. Not good for him or his spouse.

Urologists are overwhelmed with men having this issue. Many become cynical and give the guy a prescription and send him on his way. It is a long journey of trial and error to fix this......rubbery issue. 

Illustrated example:
Urologist's are Specialists. They are given a small window to fix your problem. Most of this time is spent typing something into your chart. 

They may never read that chart again until you come back for a follow up visit. You, then repeat the same information that you gave them the last time..............Sheeesh!

Assembly-line care.

Good doctors, at first, will work with a man to help him. If the patient does not follow instructions, well you know what happens to their relationship.

The insurance companies require all doctors to follow a strict protocol in every instance. And they are peer-reviewed to see if they follow this script. 

If the doctor knows how to fix something and works outside these guidelines, they can be disciplined and fired. And the insurance won't pay. 

ED needs personalized care, continuously, once it fails to rear its {pretty} head.

This spiel is a generalization and there are many good doctors out there. I hope you can find a good one for your husband. And I hope he goes.

ED repair is a moving window. You Fix it today; Tomorrow it does not pop up again...pun intended, as usual.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I may be mistaken, but I don't think he has ED at all. He just doesn't have the desire to get a hard on. When he does want one, though, he doesn't have a problem getting one.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> I may be mistaken, but I don't think he has ED at all. He just doesn't have the desire to get a hard on. When he does want one, though, he doesn't have a problem getting one.


No ED...great.

See your urologist. The gel will fix this problem. Get his PSA tested first. It must be normal for the Dr. to prescribe it. 

Some insurance companies will not pay for anything if his Testosterone levels are not below a certain number, say, less than <240 ng/dl. 

If his tested level is above this arbitrary number, you *initially* may have pay for the "T" replacement therapy [out of your own pocket]. After a year on therapy, his own production levels of "T" will drop drastically. Get retested and you will meet the criteria. 

Some insurance companies will not pay for the Gel but will pay for the injections. The vials and needles are quite a bit cheaper. You will need to do the injections for him. 

This advice is *HOT AIR *if he is not interested in fixing this issue. 

Important: And,* Is this the real problem*? Maybe the real problem is psychological, emotional, resentment or all of these things. *I do not know*. You need to find out.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

OliviaG said:


> Would you mind sharing what weird side-effects you've had from T therapy? And what physical damage is irreversible? I'm also curious about why you think the low desire has its roots elsewhere? Sorry for all the questions, but this is a subject I'm really interested in and first person accounts are always more valuable, I find, than reading the advice that medical associations approve for our consumption.


Well it is pretty embarrassing but if you want to take this up in private messaging I'm willing to fill in the details. Same to @Hope1964.

Disclaimer:
All "private" messages sent and received are forwarded to Mrs Nail.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

I'd like to know, Mr Nail, but only if you and Mrs Nail are comfortable sharing. If not I completely understand. My reason for being curious: my husband may be considering T replacement therapy in the next few months. Would like to go into it with eyes wide open, if possible.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Would you mind sharing what weird side-effects you've had from T therapy? And what physical damage is irreversible? I'm also curious about why you think the low desire has its roots elsewhere? Sorry for all the questions, but this is a subject I'm really interested in and first person accounts are always more valuable, I find, than reading the advice that medical associations approve for our consumption.


Not embarrassed. 

Upside:


Better focus energy and motivation

Increased libido. (morning wood every morning)

Fat loss 

Muscle Gain

Emotions are better regulated. Less emotional. Basically your emotions are more masculine. 




Downside:

Eventual sterility with the current regimes. 

Testicles shrink because they are not doing anything anymore. Its not that the size decrease is that noticeable visually but there is a lack of fullness in them that you have come accustomed to.

Risk of aggressive behavior (if you are above average disposed to that sort of thing)

Some very low level risks of health problems.


A better treatment would be co-stimulate the pituitary or supplement with pituitary sex hormones. This would prevent the some the above issues because the testicles would still have a job (or think they do) but bio identical pituitary hormones are off the charts expensive at this time. Given the potential money to be made fixing this for aging men and the advances in biotech I expect treatments will improve soon.

No one needs to live fully with the consequences of aging like our grandparents did.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

ScrambledEggs said:


> Not embarrassed.
> 
> Upside:
> 
> ...



Thanks. Don't they avoid the problem of sterility with HGH? Or is that not often used?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Hubby had his yearly physical yesterday. I had asked him to ask for testosterone testing because his sexual desire is declining. He is 47.
> 
> He was pissed off first of all, but then agreed.
> 
> ...



To raise your T levels:

- weight train, squats, leg press, heavy and a lot. Produces test.
- Natural Test supplements like L-Arginine powder. Take 10g with water on an empty stomach right before bed.
- Take test booster
- The more sex you have, the more your body will produce more test.
- You get an errection, you produce more test.
- You can get your family doctor to inject you with monthly test shots.

All this will get you in the mood fast.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> To raise your T levels:
> 
> - weight train, squats, leg press, heavy and a lot. Produces test.
> - Natural Test supplements like L-Arginine powder. Take 10g with water on an empty stomach right before bed.
> ...


Nothing provides a biological spike like a good set of squats.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ScrambledEggs said:


> Nothing provides a biological spike like a good set of squats.


Maximum cardio work-outs for me. 

When I was young and wrestled we ran up many flights of stairs. 
Big thighs, heart and lungs.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

FYI if you are Canadian blood tests are free. If you are an American in Canada your insurance will cover it 
Has he seen urology regarding his levels?


Sent from my iPhone


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Thanks. Don't they avoid the problem of sterility with HGH? Or is that not often used?


Yes, men that may still want kids get HCG ( I think this is what you meant. ) instead of HGH


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

Here are a few things to do before starting TRT 

1) RESEARCH 
2) Get FULL labs done to have a baseline BEFORE taking any T or other meds. ( I mean EVERYTHING needs to be checked before you start ) because the T can cause other levels to go up or down and they will need to be treated 
3) Follow up Labs to make sure everything is staying in the best range to feel good and function correctly.


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