# Is Saving So Bad?!?!



## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

OK so I am new to the forum, my first post, but have been reading through some of the material on here for a while now. This might be a little bit of a vent session, but more so hoping to get some comments and help me understand if I am out of place or if my thinking is really that different (as my wife seems to think). 

Brief background: My wife and I have been together for about 10 years and have been married for almost 6. We are in our early thirties and have no kids. I am part owner in my own company and she if finishing up her masters in a few weeks and works part time doing adult education and volunteers a little as well (her entire work week is about 15 hours).
So the disagreement or differences in opinion, if you will, comes from savings or money. I work very hard and provide a nice lifestyle for the both of us. I pay all the bills and pretty much pay for almost everything we do. She does treat me some of the time, she paid 70% for her own car, so she does help. We live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood, both drive nice cars and aren’t penny pinchers by any means. I have a good understanding of money and how to make the best use of it and where and what to invest in. I am probably more future orientated then most but by all means we are not putting everything into savings and living miserably today just for tomorrow. We travel, maybe not as much as we both would like because of my busy work schedule but we do take vacations. My point of all that is simply we buy things we want and not just what we need. 

My wife seems to think my priorities (that is her word not mine) are out of place. When things come up like I am sorry I have to work so much or I am sorry that my time is filled with doing chores or lawn work or I make comments about her working I get response like: I don’t need to live in a big house, we could live in an apartment. I don’t need to have a new car I would be fine with a used one, I don’t need money. I explain that I am not focused so much on the money (aka the dollar) but what that dollar provides. Things like a nice house, things like vacation time, things like a stress free future, things like an early retirement. Her response is that she is not a goal oriented person and that I shouldn’t force her to be either. She says things like I rather be happy today then worry about tomorrow or that it will all work out or that we may die before tomorrow comes. I of course state yeah well let’s hope we don’t die tomorrow and if we don’t then wouldn’t be nice to be able to enjoy that time as well as just today. 

I always thought parents wanted to provide and make their kid’s lives better than their own. I always thought people wanted to do everything they could to better themselves and provide for their family?

OK so that probably provides you with enough details. Am I wrong here? Is there something I am not seeing or missing or misunderstanding? My worries are I would like to have kids but I don’t know that having kids when she doesn’t care about the future is a good thing. College tuition??? I mean I already know and feel like I am the only one saving or planning ahead and feel alone. 

If she doesn’t care about the future is there a future?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I think it's really easy for her to say she doesn't want to focus on saving for the future, when she's barely focused on paying her way today. Without your job, she'd be living on the street, wouldn't she? A 15 hour a week job isn't going to pay the rent. Who is paying for her master's degree? 

She is taking advantage of you supporting her so she can do her own thing and have fun today, while at the same time slapping you for actually having to work to do it, and disparaging you for thinking about how you'll afford living for the next 50 years.

I think she is being unfair to you, and she's short-sighted. 

Personally, I wouldn't have kids with someone who isn't on the same page as you as far as financial priorities are concerned. You'll end up with a constant battle over money. And when you divorce, she'll end up with your money (alimony and child support), while you only see your kids part-time.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

This society is a funny thing. You sacrafice now for later but when later comes you're too old, slow, sick or senile to be able to enjoy it. And if by some miracle you escape father time's weapons, your kids need financial help that will sap you dry.

Nobody is going to tell you NOT to be responsible as you have been doing. But there is something to be said about a woman that lives for the day.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

sinnister said:


> This society is a funny thing. You sacrafice now for later but when later comes you're too old, slow, sick or senile to be able to enjoy it. And if by some miracle you escape father time's weapons, your kids need financial help that will sap you dry.
> 
> Nobody is going to tell you NOT to be responsible as you have been doing. But there is something to be said about a woman that lives for the day.


Yeah, it's easy to live for today on someone else's dime.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

This is one of the issues in my marriage as well. Striking that balance is so difficult. Like you, my husband put all his effort into providing for our kids and our future. Like your wife, I wonder if there will be a future when there is little time and energy to connect on a daily basis.

You work hard, you are taking care of business, you are focusing on the important goal of financial stability now and in the future. Bravo, well done, excellent, she's a lucky girl!

Your wife smells the flowers, she lives in the moment, emotional connection is fluid and tenuous. She needs your focus now, not at retirement. She feels your loss now and worries that if it continues, it'll be too late to enjoy the life you've been working and saving for. You're a lucky man that your wife wants more of you, right?

To put it in practical terms, how much energy do you have left over to give to her when your work day is done? Are you zapped, ready to watch TV and zone out before bed? Is this the usual M-F routine? Are weekends filled with house and garden work? 

You need to find a balance of energy that gives her more of you. Once kids come along, there will be even less of you to go around, so find that balance now. And for what it's worth, we don't teach kids responsibility be giving them stuff, we teach it by doing stuff with them. <- time and energy you will also need to factor in.


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> OK. I can see both of your sides. You want to embrace the role of the provider. That's commendable and very honorable. At the same time, she is telling you that she may not need all of the material things that the money can provide the two of you in order to be happy. You want to provide security. She wants to live. I'm going to put some thoughts in a list, and maybe it will help:
> 
> 
> You may be so focused on the future that you are not living nearly enough in the present.
> ...



All good points some are a little off base but I want to hear what other think to open my eyes to reasoning I have not considered.

So some thoughts to your bullet points:

[*]You may be so focused on the future that you are not living nearly enough in the present. Maybe, infact very well possible, but there is a balance and its not an easy one.

[*]Your wife is telling you that you work too much, and that she would prefer you to spend more time with her than to get the extra "X" number of dollars from the extra work you are doing. Yes she is saying that, however X amount of dollars isn't that cut and dry. Meaning lets say I could give up $10,000 a year. Good luck finding out how to give up a client or a schedule to equal that dollar amount. Its give up a client or keep a client not make a client half happy. Its not extra work its necessary work to keep my clients and my business running.

[*]I sense that you feel happy with having a lot of nice things. Why is it so important to you? One example here: I love cars, have loved cars since I was a small child. Cars are a very expensive hobby if you let them. So when it came time to buy a new car did I buy the most expensive one I could afford, no. Did I want it, yes. Did I still buy a nice car, yes. So I think you have a misunderstanding. Do I like nice things yes, who does. Do I buy outside my means or flaunt around my money, no.

[*]You can never fully plan for kids. No matter how much you save - it's not enough. True so then lets take it to extremes, why both saving, its never enough, lets just see how it goes. Lets hope I don't get hurt and can continue making good money for the rest of my life.


[*]Unless your wife wastes money like it's water, which I don't believe she is based on your OP, listen to her. She's trying to tell you something. Are you willing to listen? She certainly does waste money, infact she finds deals and saves us money at the grocery store every week. I am willing to listen and if I wasn't or didn't care I wouldn't be on this site. I think living completely for today is not smart, she doesn't see it that way, I don't see it her way, it is and is going to cause major issues.


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

norajane said:


> I think it's really easy for her to say she doesn't want to focus on saving for the future, when she's barely focused on paying her way today. Without your job, she'd be living on the street, wouldn't she? A 15 hour a week job isn't going to pay the rent. Who is paying for her master's degree?
> 
> She is taking advantage of you supporting her so she can do her own thing and have fun today, while at the same time slapping you for actually having to work to do it, and disparaging you for thinking about how you'll afford living for the next 50 years.
> 
> ...


This is exactly how I felt initially and in the heat of the moment, but I am trying to understand her side just have a tough time doing so. I feel everything was on my shoulders and without me there would be nothing. She states without me she could afford an apartment and live OK. She couldn't without making a job change, but after that job change it is possible I won't argue with that logic. It just seems she would be thankful she doesn't have to work a full time job, that she has the luxury of volunteering, that she was able to go back and get her masters (for fun by the way, not so she could get a better job or a higher paying job, so this was purely a luxury or want not a need).


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I think this is a communication problem. It starts with her whining because you aren't available to "play" with her as much as she'd like. She covers this statement by saying you have a priority problem. Now I have no idea if she's right or not. Maybe you do work too much I don't know.

Now here's where it becomes a communication problem you respond to her wanting more time with you by telling her to get a job. Yeah that's never going to work. So then she backtracks and says "I could live in an apartment, don't want the stuff, etc". Translation: she ain't getting a job anytime soon.

Next time she says you have a priority problem and you work too much agree with her and stop talking. Explaining doesn't work on women either.

Overall you sound wise however I do wonder how much of these material goods are for you or her.


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> This is one of the issues in my marriage as well. Striking that balance is so difficult. Like you, my husband put all his effort into providing for our kids and our future. Like your wife, I wonder if there will be a future when there is little time and energy to connect on a daily basis.
> 
> You work hard, you are taking care of business, you are focusing on the important goal of financial stability now and in the future. Bravo, well done, excellent, she's a lucky girl!
> 
> ...



Yes there a lot of weeks and days where its just come home, eat dinner, watch TV for a bit then go to bed. We definitely do not go out and hit up the town every night especially on week days. I know we are young and should be enjoying our time and our time together. Not arguing or saying otherwise, need to do more of that. BUT what I am trying to convey or have her see is that if we both worked together and worked to pay the house off, save for retirement, save for vacation, or whatever you want to fill in that blank with it would mean we were on the same page, working towards a goal, bettering ourselves and the future. Again the balance is tough, I am clearly having trouble with it or at least the portion my wife wants to see. But if it swings completely to her side then its a no go for me. Yes I could drop half my clients have half my day free and still pay the day to day bills or we could downsize. Sorry I don't want to live in an apartment. I don't need to live in huge million dollar house either so don't take this as wanting to live some extreme lifestyle and money is god type of speech.


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## Isuck (Jul 1, 2012)

My marriage ended because of this situation. She doesn't care about the money and the people saying she's got it easy are missing her point of view completely.

Having come from the role of sole provider, I THOUGHT that making sure we had money, nice stuff and would never have to worry about it in the future was my job. So I worked my ass off in my business to make sure that happened. I made it my mission to take the "money worries" out of the equation forever.

What I missed was the fact that you can have all the money in the world but you cannot buy TIME.

She wants to spend TIME with you. It's not about money for her, she doesn't care about it. She feels like the priority is your work and not her. 

Money isn't real. Love is.

You're on a road to splitting if you don't start making time for her.

I guarantee it.


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Based on your additional feedback, it does sound like your wife is taking advantage of a situation. Doing a masters degree just for fun??? Not when you're young and you want to start a family. She's living too much in the present from what it sounds like. I'd tell her this: "If you work more, then I can work less and the both of us will have more time to spend together.". If she doesn't go for that, then you have a real problem. I thought her going back to school was for a payoff down the road with a better career. Wow...I was off on this one.
> 
> Norjane, you were rightl


I have some of those feelings. I feel like going back to school for fun is what retired people do or people do down the road. Volunteering is great, some of my clients are nonprofit and I mark my rates WAY down for them to help them out, I get the whole giving back is rewarding... but I have time to volunteer down the road, not so much now when I am so young and trying to build my life.


Yeah the master degree was for her just to do something she enjoyed. She is an educated woman, smart indeed, one of the reasons I fell in love with her. She told me right off the bat that she wanted to go back to school to learn, not necessarily to make more money. My deal was for part of the masters degree that she could quit her full time teaching position so she could focus full time on wrapping up the masters but that she had to get a job after she was done. That has turned into she just wants a part time job when she graduates in a few weeks. So she spent all this time and work on the masters along with a lot of money but has determined after teaching at public school, then private, school, and now he part time adult education... that adult ed is what she wants to do. However I have been told by her there are no full time adult ed jobs. I don't know I am not a teacher so I cant comment otherwise. I told her with part time all the health care of having a child falls on us (with our current plan....I may be able to change some of my health care plan to help with some of it, need to really look more closely at it) which is a lot of money and she stated its a waste of her time and not worth it to do all the work to get a full time teaching position just to leave a year later if we have kids. 

So this is where my "I feel alone" comes from. She doesn't want to work for: 
house
car
retirement
vacation or whatever luxury she wants
kids
future

I just feel like I can't make my side even known to her because I cant even use an example for her to see how I feel. She wants us to redo the kitchen in our home as its old and pretty poor layout. So I used that, you want the kitchen redone, make that your savings goal, no go....


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Hmm...Not sure if Im clear.Is she complaining you dont have enough "time" because you work "too much" ?And are you saying you work that much because its important too you to have the luxuries you have and security for the future ..so you suggest if she works more(spends more of her time working) and contributes more you could work less and still have the same standard of living and her response is those things (the security and the luxuries) aren't important to her only you ?

If I'm reading it right I think she is saying she wants you to work less but her continue to not work many hours and ya'll just downgrade your lifestyle(have a smaller home drive less expensive cars) on your then lower income?And you are saying you do not want to downgrade?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

When she told you she wanted to spend the time, money and energy going back to school "to learn" and not to make more money, that should have been a clue for you that making money was not her goal.

Redoing the kitchen? Yes, something she could save for.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

hammbone50 said:


> I have some of those feelings. I feel like going back to school for fun is what retired people do or people do down the road. Volunteering is great, some of my clients are nonprofit and I mark my rates WAY down for them to help them out, I get the whole giving back is rewarding... but I have time to volunteer down the road, not so much now when I am so young and trying to build my life.
> 
> 
> Yeah the master degree was for her just to do something she enjoyed. She is an educated woman, smart indeed, one of the reasons I fell in love with her. She told me right off the bat that she wanted to go back to school to learn, not necessarily to make more money. My deal was for part of the masters degree that she could quit her full time teaching position so she could focus full time on wrapping up the masters but that she had to get a job after she was done. That has turned into she just wants a part time job when she graduates in a few weeks. So she spent all this time and work on the masters along with a lot of money but has determined after teaching at public school, then private, school, and now he part time adult education... that adult ed is what she wants to do. However I have been told by her there are no full time adult ed jobs. I don't know I am not a teacher so I cant comment otherwise. I told her with part time all the health care of having a child falls on us (with our current plan....I may be able to change some of my health care plan to help with some of it, need to really look more closely at it) which is a lot of money and she stated its a waste of her time and not worth it to do all the work to get a full time teaching position just to leave a year later if we have kids.
> ...


So, she doesn't want to work, and she doesn't want you to work as much, but she still wants a new kitchen and refuses to save for it herself.

Like I said, it's easy for her to disparage money and work when you're paying for her lifestyle. This kitchen example makes me seriously doubt her statements about not caring about money. She does. She just thinks it's supposed to grow on trees (that you, of course, have to climb to pick ).


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

Isuck said:


> My marriage ended because of this situation. She doesn't care about the money and the people saying she's got it easy are missing her point of view completely.
> 
> Having come from the role of sole provider, I THOUGHT that making sure we had money, nice stuff and would never have to worry about it in the future was my job. So I worked my ass off in my business to make sure that happened. I made it my mission to take the "money worries" out of the equation forever.
> 
> ...


Exactly that is HER point. What about MY point. 


So time is limited I am pulled by different people in different directions so time is limited with work or without work. I believe if I drop the ball and just worry about time then down the road we will be in big trouble. Let me just say I saw both sides of it in my own family. My mom's parents didn't save, were terrible with money in an investment sense, basically lived paycheck to paycheck and were fine with it being that way. My dad ended up having to do a lot of house work for my mom's parents because they weren't able to pay for someone, he bought them (used)cars, he did a lot to help them out and in a way keep them afloat. Now my dad's side worked their way up, were a little frugal early on but paid for family vacations (for the entire family so we could be together), sent my siblings and I to camps and activities when we were kids, made matching payments for the first year on our student loans.... basically treated us to things we would not have experienced otherwise. My mom says her childhood was good. My dad says his childhood was good. So neither method ruined them. So if neither was a bad way of growing up or raising kids then I could do exactly what my wife wants right???? Well....my question to you is: What parent would you rather be the one that became a financial responsibility for your kids or the parents that treated your grandkids and gave them experiences that they benefited from and grew from and would otherwise not of had? Just to clarify I LOVE both sets of my grandparents and never thought less or more of either one.... just as you get older you realize you don't want to leave a strain for someone else to deal with and want to provide. So would it be the end of the world if I came to my wife's camp, no.... but is that best not only for me, or her, but our future and MAYBE our future kids???


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> Hmm...Not sure if Im clear.Is she complaining you dont have enough "time" because you work "too much" ?And are you saying you work that much because its important too you to have the luxuries you have and security for the future ..so you suggest if she works more(spends more of her time working) and contributes more you could work less and still have the same standard of living and her response is those things (the security and the luxuries) aren't important to her only you ?
> 
> If I'm reading it right I think she is saying she wants you to work less but her continue to not work many hours and ya'll just downgrade your lifestyle(have a smaller home drive less expensive cars) on your then lower income?And you are saying you do not want to downgrade?


This is a gray area, working less maybe, but spending more time is her focus so yes in order for me to do that I need to work less, to have more time or more valuable/meaningful time. Basically what would truly happen is we wouldn't downgrade our lifestyle we just wouldn't put as much into savings or anything into savings, guess it depends on how that panned out with losing work.


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

Openminded said:


> When she told you she wanted to spend the time, money and energy going back to school "to learn" and not to make more money, that should have been a clue for you that making money was not her goal.
> 
> Redoing the kitchen? Yes, something she could save for.


Correct, not saying I didn't understand that or have a clue that she wasn't going to user her masters to make more money. In fact I knew it going in and was OK with it. I am still OK with it now. Deal was she got to quit her full time job, take time off to get her masters (which was and is of absolutely no benefit to me but was something she WANTED to do) then get a job after words. So where do you think the money to pay for the cars, house, bills, LIFE came from during that time period where you are doing WHAT YOU WANT? 

Now I am asking for a little help and have even laid it out as work for whatever she wants the kitchen being an example, that's it, that's my side, not too much else to it really.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

hammbone50 said:


> This is a gray area, working less maybe, but spending more time is her focus so yes in order for me to do that I need to work less, to have more time or more valuable/meaningful time. Basically what would truly happen is we wouldn't downgrade our lifestyle we just wouldn't put as much into savings or anything into savings, guess it depends on how that panned out with losing work.


Then I would tell her if YOU are willing and SHE is to downgrade then that is the only way for you to work less and spend more time together if she wont work more.Because you refuse to not put anything into savings.Quite frankly I'm all for living for today.But I'm not all for tomorrow coming and something happens and you cant even afford to eat because you spent every penny living high..There are no gaurantees of course but its irresponsible not to have as much saved as you reasonably can without total deprivation today.

So if I'm clear she is asking you to work less so less of an income while continuing to spend the same way and what you are to give up in order to achieve that in nothing is a savings pot?

I wouldn't do it.When the **** hits the fan she would probably blame you for listening to her if you did it.You might say ...BUT this is what you wanted' this is what I warned you of too ..and she would say "so if I told you to jump of a bridge you would do it"?


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

norajane said:


> So, she doesn't want to work, and she doesn't want you to work as much, but she still wants a new kitchen and refuses to save for it herself.
> 
> Like I said, it's easy for her to disparage money and work when you're paying for her lifestyle. This kitchen example makes me seriously doubt her statements about not caring about money. She does. She just thinks it's supposed to grow on trees (that you, of course, have to climb to pick ).


Only way I can explain it to myself is she doesn't get the connection between the money and the life. So she doesn't care about money which I believe. But she doesn't want to see that the money allowed her to get her masters degree that she did for fun. The money allows her the flexibility to have a part time job and volunteer at two positions she enjoys. So those are clear examples that don't include physically items as a lot of you seem to think this is about cars, houses, luxury goods. Its about LIFE.... its about working so you can do things you enjoy (whatever they may be) not so I can drive my Lambo down Rodeo Drive. (I don't own a Lambo by the way just to make sure this isn't taken the wrong way!)


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> Then I would tell her if YOU are willing and SHE is to downgrade then that is the only way for you to work less and spend more time together if she wont work more.Because you refuse to not put anything into savings.Quite frankly I'm all for living for today.But I'm not all for tomorrow coming and something happens and you cant even afford to eat because you spent every penny living high..There are no gaurantees of course but its irresponsible not to have as much saved as you reasonably can without total deprivation today.
> 
> So if I'm clear she is asking you to work less so less of an income while continuing to spend the same way and what you are to give up in order to achieve that in nothing is a savings pot?
> 
> I wouldn't do it.When the **** hits the fan she would probably blame you for listening to her if you did it.You might say ...BUT this is what you wanted' this is what I warned you of too ..and she would say "so if I told you to jump of a bridge you would do it"?


Yep so I cant win, which is what and how I felt before I came on this forum. Point is I feel alone, feel I am the only one that is going to make the effort in this regard. How does the situation get fixed, I get to make the decision on what to change and how to change it. My lifestyle changes, there is nothing on her part, there is no sharing, there is no US.....


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

Funny,how if were responsible for making sure money is made and bills are paid were penalized for it.Would see be with you if you were lazy and had no job.I doubt it.

I have my doubts if see actually wants to work.If i was like this my house hold would starve.I have a wife who is sadly getting used to not working for some years.Im a realist and we can't 
always have it all.Sometimes work takes priority takes so
we have security later on.

My wife never thinks about tomorrow,but I do as things always 
need repair and we need money to live.In this economy we should
be thankful to be doing well.

Sorry but her differing view,could be a deal breaker for you.Putting extra money away
for the future gives you security.She's only thinking in the now,but time flys by.

Good luck


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Can you put together a budget that would show how much less you'd be making if you cut back on your clients, and what that would mean for your finances?

Say you cut back by 25%. Then show her that you'd have enough money for the mortgage and utility bills, insurance and car payments, but she wouldn't be able to get her kitchen, wouldn't be able to take vacations, wouldn't be able to x, y, z.

And then show her what happens if you are out of work due to an illness or injury, and how quickly that would deplete your savings.

Would that approach help, or what she just ignore you?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I have my doubts if see actually wants to work.


If I read correctly sounds like she definately is not planning on working after kids.But doesn't want to work now to help buy any neccessities to allow more room for savings now for later.


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> If I read correctly sounds like she definately is not planning on working after kids.But doesn't want to work now to help buy any neccessities to allow more room for savings now for later.


I wouldn't want or expect her to work when/if we had kids. A child to me is a full time job and needs a mothers love and attention and I wouldn't mind her staying at home. But my worries or thoughts are as you described them.... no work now, no money put away now, no kids.... then we have Kids = less money, more expenses, less savings.

Its a balance of work and play without any question I just don't want to be doing the balancing act alone.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

hammbone50 said:


> My wife seems to think my priorities (that is her word not mine) are out of place. When things come up like I am sorry I have to work so much or I am sorry that my time is filled with doing chores or lawn work or I make comments about her working I get response like: I don’t need to live in a big house, we could live in an apartment. I don’t need to have a new car I would be fine with a used one, I don’t need money. I explain that I am not focused so much on the money (aka the dollar) but what that dollar provides. Things like a nice house, things like vacation time, things like a stress free future, things like an early retirement. Her response is that she is not a goal oriented person and that I shouldn’t force her to be either. She says things like I rather be happy today then worry about tomorrow or that it will all work out or that we may die before tomorrow comes. I of course state yeah well let’s hope we don’t die tomorrow and if we don’t then wouldn’t be nice to be able to enjoy that time as well as just today.
> 
> I always thought parents wanted to provide and make their kid’s lives better than their own. I always thought people wanted to do everything they could to better themselves and provide for their family?
> 
> ?


OK... I have been in your shoes to a degree...Espeically with wife saying why save for the future you may be dead anyway.

Here are some things to think about. You are a man, and your wife is a woman. You are following man logic, and your wife is following woman logic. No one is wrong.

You want to believe that by working hard and providing a stable financial future, this is what all women want in man, and you are confused as to why your wife is not happy. She gets to work part time, have this or that and she should really be appreciative and happy. What you have to realize is that succeeding in work, having money, that is your priority. You get satisfaction, happiness, fulfllment out of it. You are doing it for YOU and not for HER. Don't mistake what you think SHOULD make a wife happy with what actually DOES make your wife happy.

These things are not important to your wife as she has told you. She certainly gets no fulfillment out of you succeeding at your job. She gets no fullfillment out of you coming home worried about or mentally focused on your job. She gets no fullfillment (marital wise) in the time you are working at your job. And in her value system, she gets no fulfillment out of financial security. She is not wrong, this is who she is.

You have to recongnize in a hurry all this physical, emotioanl effort is on what is important to you, and not what is important to her. In your marriage, this is the mistake you are making.

This board is rife with men complaining about lack of sex while their wife is overly focused on the children and is too tired... A very similar problem. She is giving all her phsyical and emotional effort to the children, wondering why her husband doesn't "get it", meanwhile he wants a fraction of that emotional energy aimed in his direction on something that is important to him.

To be a successful husband, and have a successful marriage, you have proritize what is important to your wife at a very high place in your life. You want to be a successful businessman, you know you have to proritize your business and your clients. If you want to be a sucessful husband, you have to prioritize meeting your wife's emotional needs.

You cannot go overboard throwing your business away, but when your wife verbalizes these things she is communicating very directly to you and you better take it seriously. And, in pursuit of a great marriage you have to advocate for your own needs... Your job as a man is not to make all the money, but to set up the marriage where the proper balances between work, home, kids, money, sex are in place, so that the "family" as a unit is operating successfully.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> And in her value system, she gets no fulfillment out of financial security. She is not wrong, this is who she is.


The problem with that is she would I'm sure suddenly "value" financial security if she lived under the stress of having none and he cared less.She might "magically' value financial security when the eviction notice came to vacate the foreclosed home ...when the tow truck pulled up to haul off the her repo-od car...when she found herself living in a crappy apartment with rotten carpets and a rusty bath tub...no money to even get a hair cut or buy a tube of mascara/ and ramen noodles for dinner/ no health insurance and a baby on the way she couldnt even afford to buy a crib for and needed WIC assistance or welfare to afford formula and diapers/ while her husband "stayed home" with her to spend "quality time".


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

norajane said:


> Can you put together a budget that would show how much less you'd be making if you cut back on your clients, and what that would mean for your finances?
> 
> Say you cut back by 25%. Then show her that you'd have enough money for the mortgage and utility bills, insurance and car payments, but she wouldn't be able to get her kitchen, wouldn't be able to take vacations, wouldn't be able to x, y, z.
> 
> ...


That's a good point. Problem is this I am in the computer/IT business so a clients needs fluctuate drastically from month to month and there is no clear cut way for me to know how much money I will make that week, that month, that year per client or job. With that being said I have had some of my clients long enough that I can make a guess that will be somewhat close. So cutting back means giving up a client or having one of my partners fill in certain client for me. Picking which client and how much money that would be giving up is the hard part as again its not clear cut from week to week or month to month how many hours I work for them. I am not sure the budget would make much of a difference as I did this years ago for us (more her) to show her what we spent on food, clothing, mortgage, utilities, etc. She could have cared less and was of no benefit to me as I already knew it all so I stopped. I am just reserved at making this about money. I was trying to make this viewed as activities, hobbies, freedom. Not about dollar signs. But its really hard to find a way to do that when she wont agree or put up a goal or item she wants. I used the kitchen as an example as she has been bugging me for two years to do it. I would have thought this would been a easy and good way for her to help put money into the house, get a project done that she wants, and put us on the same page. It didn't work and every other example I tried to use got shut down. If I say it allowed you the freedom to go back to school, she says I always bring it up and hold that over her head. If I say vacations I get well we don't travel all that much any way. (By the way we went to Germany/Italy just two years ago, we are going to France in a few months). So its not like we aren't doing anything nice. I will admit we traveled more when we dated and early on in the marriage. But as you get older some of that drops off and my hopes are later in life we get to ramp up the trips full throttle again.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

norajane said:


> Yeah, it's easy to live for today on someone else's dime.


That's a good point to. Perspective changes with your situation.

If she was busting her butt for 40 hours a week maybe she wouldnt be the same.

But I've seen the opposite too. People so focused on earning and saving that they lose sight of living.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

My father got ill when he was 50 years old and had to quit work. Thank god he had insurance with his job so he continued to earn income.

He told me not to do what he did. My parents didn't have a ton of money, but they saved for the future. They saved and saved and when they were older, he got sick and couldn't enjoy it.

I remember looking at cars with him. He really wanted this brand new Ford car. He could afford it, but he couldn't spend the money. He bought a used car from the neighbor. When they bought their house they couldn't part with a few extra thousand dollars for the nicer house.

He later told me he should have bought that car and the house. He had more than enough money. That conversation was a big part of why I bought myself a BMW last year and why we upgraded our house a few years back.

So we are trying to do both. Saving for future and spending now to enjoy life. I am fortunate that my business is doing well so we are able to do both.

But there is a balance. And in a marriage you both have to be in agreement. I am fortunate that my wife puts all these decisions to me and has agreed with everything I have decided. She will comment, "can we really afford that holiday", but that is about it.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> .Espeically with wife saying why save for the future you may be dead anyway.


Thats like saying..why go to bed tonight when we may not wake up tomorrow?Or why bother eating right and excerisizing for longevity when you can get hit by a bus any day?Why plant a seed when the word could end before it sprouts into a plant?..Heck why do ANYTHING that the beneifit of it comes in the future?Why single out savings of money?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> My father got ill when he was 50 years old and had to quit work. Thank god he had insurance with his job so he continued to earn income.
> 
> He told me not to do what he did. My parents didn't have a ton of money, but they saved for the future. They saved and saved and when they were older, he got sick and couldn't enjoy it.
> 
> ...


But with him..(sorry OP Im siding with you ) they ARE enjoying life now.Its the savings part she wants to cut out so he can be home more.

And I'm with you on you cant predict the future.But its sensless(not that you are) to do little or nothing to prepare for one .Especially when you have the luxury to live now AND save a decent amount.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Dallas,

All I can say is just because you think OP's wife is wrong, doesnt mean she herself thinks her feelings are wrong, or could be convinced of same.

To solve a marital problem, you have to have a solid understanding of where your spouse is coming from, their opinions and feelings... 

And, I said his wife does not get fulfillment out of financial security... Valuing it is not the same as getting fulfllment out of it... And, the solution to this problem is not each person convincing the other to accept their position in totality, but about 2 people moving closer to the middle ground.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Hicks said:


> OK... I have been in your shoes to a degree...Espeically with wife saying why save for the future you may be dead anyway.
> 
> Here are some things to think about. You are a man, and your wife is a woman. You are following man logic, and your wife is following woman logic. No one is wrong.


I take exception to that. This could be your wife's logic and his wife's logic, but it certainly doesn't describe me or many other women.

This is not man logic vs. woman logic. This is the ant vs. the grasshopper - I'm sure you read that fable as a little kid - two opposing points of view on the living and the future.


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> But with him..(sorry OP Im siding with you ) they ARE enjoying life now.Its the savings part she wants to cut out so he can be home more.
> 
> And I'm with you on you cant predict the future.But its sensless(not that you are) to do little or nothing to prepare for one .Especially when you have the luxury to live now AND save a decent amount.


Correct that is exactly my point. I am not giving up on life now to enjoy it later. Am I saving yes, do we not go every single place, or buy every single thing we want, no. But not to an extend that life is miserable or that everything is focused to savings. We bought a nice house, we bought nice cars, we own nice things, we travel, we have luxuries that we could have forgone to save more, but it wasn't worth given up the benefit it brought us today. So your example is a good one, but its not me. 

My wife is not wrong and I am not trying to prove or say she is. I am trying to understand her views and understand how we get to a common ground and have a better understanding for each others perspectives.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

hammbone50 said:


> *Exactly that is HER point. What about MY point. *
> 
> 
> So time is limited I am pulled by different people in different directions so time is limited with work or without work. I believe if I drop the ball and just worry about time then down the road we will be in big trouble. Let me just say I saw both sides of it in my own family. My mom's parents didn't save, were terrible with money in an investment sense, basically lived paycheck to paycheck and were fine with it being that way. My dad ended up having to do a lot of house work for my mom's parents because they weren't able to pay for someone, he bought them (used)cars, he did a lot to help them out and in a way keep them afloat. Now my dad's side worked their way up, were a little frugal early on but paid for family vacations (for the entire family so we could be together), sent my siblings and I to camps and activities when we were kids, made matching payments for the first year on our student loans.... basically treated us to things we would not have experienced otherwise. My mom says her childhood was good. My dad says his childhood was good. So neither method ruined them. So if neither was a bad way of growing up or raising kids then I could do exactly what my wife wants right???? Well....my question to you is: What parent would you rather be the one that became a financial responsibility for your kids or the parents that treated your grandkids and gave them experiences that they benefited from and grew from and would otherwise not of had? Just to clarify I LOVE both sets of my grandparents and never thought less or more of either one.... just as you get older you realize you don't want to leave a strain for someone else to deal with and want to provide. So would it be the end of the world if I came to my wife's camp, no.... but is that best not only for me, or her, but our future and MAYBE our future kids???



I suggest you have already been doing YOUR point and your way and it's not working for her. 

Aside from extreme mismanagement or extreme frugality, money is a personal tool. How you use it, what you do with it, no one can judge the rightness or wrongness.

You are missing the point. You have been doing things your way, and she isn't happy. Try balancing toward her way for a little while and see if that makes things better.

We can't judge if someone is rightly free spirited or rightly goal oriented; the world needs both kinds of people. Your marriage is a blend of both kinds of people. It really sounds like you're trying to blend her into you rather than both of you stepping together, both of you getting your needs met. 

Listen to her. I really think this is more about her wanting you, your time, energy and focus, than her wanting to live the hippie lifestyle.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> To solve a marital problem, you have to have a solid understanding of where your spouse is coming from, their opinions and feelings...


Of course I agree..but it reaches a point where LOGIC and not just "feelings" have to come into play and might just "trump" feelings and opinions in some cases that most "reasonable" people would "agree" on.


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

Hicks said:


> OK... I have been in your shoes to a degree...Espeically with wife saying why save for the future you may be dead anyway.
> 
> Here are some things to think about. You are a man, and your wife is a woman. You are following man logic, and your wife is following woman logic. No one is wrong.
> 
> ...


Thank you!!! That was a very well thought out and very well written comment. It is all so very true. Can you just help me understand one thing. You say I need to take my wife seriously and meet her needs. I agree with you and feel our marriage has been and continues to be hindered by these types of things, but what about my own needs, thoughts, dreams, hopes? There comes a point where you can give and compromise and receive no compromise and budging from the other person. (I know it sounds stupid and hardnosed) but I feel like this is a time where instead of me just being the one to change my thinking and my goals my wife should be meeting me half way or some of the way. Not because I think life is fair but because a marriage is two people working as one. Not one person working to make the other one happy. I know darn well a marriage takes work and requires constant tweaking but I am not sure I can believe that its all about me fitting the mold she wants. I know no one on here knows me but I am a VERY EASY GOING person, pretty much will do whatever whenever, gets on my wife's nerves some times as she thinks its a lack of caring but there are some things I feel like giving in is just giving up. Thoughts? Help!


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> All I can say is just because you think OP's wife is wrong, doesnt mean she herself thinks her feelings are wrong, or could be convinced of same.


I wouldn't term it I think she is "wrong" but more so being "unreasonable" and unbending.Wanting it ALL her way.

HAMBONE seems to be the one looking for compromise.What pray tell has she offered as a compromise?Nothing that I can see.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

It seems pretty clear to me.Hambones wife wants to have what they have now (no reduction in spending) and to continue to work on her masters (for fun) continue to work the 15 hours (that she doesn't put towards necesseties)..but for him to work less because SHE "wants" to spend more time with him.. .and to afford that she wants to pay for it by STOP saving any money...and he is INSECURE about not saving a penny...especially since their are children in the future..

So she gets it all? While he frets over not having any money saved so she can be a free spirit?But yet he needs to "understand her feelings better"?


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> I wouldn't term it I think she is "wrong" but more so being "unreasonable" and unbending.Wanting it ALL her way.
> 
> HAMBONE seems to be the one looking for compromise.What pray tell has she offered as a compromise?Nothing that I can see.


And I am willing to give up and compromise more, I just need to know she is going to do the same. She seems to think this is just me forcing my ways down her throat and I seem to think she is forcing me to give up my ways. So I think we both are stuck (at least I am hoping that is the case as I am giving her the benefit of the doubt here)


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

norajane said:


> I take exception to that. This could be your wife's logic and his wife's logic, but it certainly doesn't describe me or many other women.
> 
> This is not man logic vs. woman logic. This is the ant vs. the grasshopper - I'm sure you read that fable as a little kid - two opposing points of view on the living and the future.


All I know is I must be a "man" because to me it makes no "logical" sense to stop working as many hours(purposely) ..spend every penny you have and not save a dime.(while planning on kids in the future to boot)All because "how do you even know you will be alive tomorrow"..Yes I could see this if you have a terminal disease and been told you only have a year left..that I would say GO FOR IT.SCREW tomorrow!


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

hammbone50 said:


> And I am willing to give up and compromise more, I just need to know she is going to do the same. She seems to think this is just me forcing my ways down her throat and I seem to think she is forcing me to give up my ways. So I think we both are stuck (at least I am hoping that is the case as I am giving her the benefit of the doubt here)


I don't wish to demonize your wife.She actually sounds fun and intelligent and GOSH I would like to hang around her.But I just think in this case she is acting a little "blind" and maybe even selfish.It doesn't seem like she is really considering YOUR legit concerns and "feelings" ..


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> All I know is I must be a "man" because to me it makes no "logical" sense to stop working as many hours(purposely) ..spend every penny you have and not save a dime.(while planning on kids in the future to boot)All because "how do you even know you will be alive tomorrow"..Yes I could see this if you have a terminal disease and been told you only have a year left..that I would say GO FOR IT.SCREW tomorrow!


Yeah especially in these times where people are begging for work. That is the other thing my wife decided to quit her job and start her masters at the worst possible time in the economy, again I was understanding that she wanted to do it. Shoot I bought my luxury car when the economy wasn't that great and thought twice about it because I didn't know how my work was going to keep up through the down turn. It all worked out but again these are my examples of showing we aren't just saving, we are spending, we aren't pinching pennies we are living just maybe not as much as we did earlier in life or as she wants. I know she just wants more time with me, I think that's great. I just need her to understand I am not doing all of the work, saving, planning just for me, its for us and it has ALREADY helped her and would continue to help her down the road. Just need a balance but I need another person to be sitting on the other end of the see-saw to make it work and right now I am not feeling like that's the case.

I think this puts things into perspective a little more...... Here is how I think it would pan out: Tomorrow I win the lottery and have 50 million sitting in my bank account. What would I do: quit work. She wouldn't. She would continue doing what she is now with schooling and volunteering and the part time work. I like my job I am lucky as I know a lot of people hate their work, but I would still quit as I have no desire to work my entire life.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I know she just wants more time with me, I think that's great.


I agree its great.But it seems if that's what she wants that bad she would be willing to make some sort of compromise/effort to get it.

Its simple.If I wanted more time with my husband and he was the sole or main provider..And he said "we cant afford it" ..I would up my hours(r get a job) so he could have the freedom (peace of mind) to work less or I would sacrifice some luxuries(or both) .. ...if he still didn't then I would say he was the one not compromising or the one that didn't care about my feelings or needs.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

hammbone50 said:


> Thank you!!! That was a very well thought out and very well written comment. It is all so very true. Can you just help me understand one thing. You say I need to take my wife seriously and meet her needs. I agree with you and feel our marriage has been and continues to be hindered by these types of things, but what about my own needs, thoughts, dreams, hopes? There comes a point where you can give and compromise and receive no compromise and budging from the other person. (I know it sounds stupid and hardnosed) but I feel like this is a time where instead of me just being the one to change my thinking and my goals my wife should be meeting me half way or some of the way. Not because I think life is fair but because a marriage is two people working as one. Not one person working to make the other one happy. I know darn well a marriage takes work and requires constant tweaking but I am not sure I can believe that its all about me fitting the mold she wants. I know no one on here knows me but I am a VERY EASY GOING person, pretty much will do whatever whenever, gets on my wife's nerves some times as she thinks its a lack of caring but there are some things I feel like giving in is just giving up. Thoughts? Help!


Like I said in my first post. Your job is not to provide a "financial" security per se, but to create a balanced marriage. A balanced marriage has elements of you finding fulfillment inside your marriage (i.e. "Getting" from your wife), you finding fulfillment outside your marriage (i.e. A good carreer), you providing fullfillment to your wife inside her marriage (i.e. you "giving") and you making sure your wife is getting fulfillment outside the marriage.

The women on this board will say I'm a sexist jerk, but to me a marriage must be managed just as you recongize your business must be managed... And, it's pretty clear it would be a mistake to let your wife manaage your marriage of you will be living in an irrational and substandard way.

Your first goal is to really understand what you can do that makes your wife feel happy, loved and fulfilled. As in feelings she feels on a daily basis. Once she feels these things from specific actions you take, you will probably find that she is very open to "giving" ....This is not about you quitting your job or working less or making less money... It's about not acting like that is the only thing that matters to you... And acting like the things that matter to her, matter to you.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

You have no kids so this seems pretty clear cut. Your wife should appreciate your ability to finance her chosen lifestyle. If you were not able to do this she would have to pursue a steady income and that would not include a low paying part time dream job. Instead she's critical of you because you're not around to play with her in the bubble of security that you provide ! How hypocritical is that? If you were not succesful you'd both have to work full time just to maintain an average lifestyle. Her choice to pursue a masters degree would not have existed unless she attended night school after a full day at work.

Why should you feel its your responsibility to facilitate her dreams if she's unable to recognize it's your income that enables those dreams? IMO to derail what you've built just to satisfy this hypocritical whim would be a strategic life mistake. In today's unstable economy you should be maximizing you're earning potential while you're able. Your situation can change in a heartbeat. All it takes is one car accident or a random virus.

It looks like she's comfortable living an academic lifestyle and that's fine. I wish I could do this. However, everyone knows that academics have different priorities which typically result from living in an insulated world.

Have you asked your wife what her career path would be if she were forced to support herself? Her answer should clue you into how she views your role as a husband. From my chair it looks like she's convienently forgeting where her bread is buttered and her perception of reality has been skewed because she's spent too much time in the theoretical world. Time for a reality check....Time to man up a bit.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Being asked to meet your wife's need for your time, your energy and you focus isn't giving in. I'm sorry you see it that way. She's not asking you to ignore your business and ignore your goals, she's asking that your relationship together be the most important goal. This is not about you fitting her mold, this not about you at all...really...as screwy as that sounds. This is about a wife who wants her husband to have energy and time for her. 

Can't you give her your top energy and focus for two hours every day? How is that giving in?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife does not connect emotionally with money or a lifestyle.

She connects emotionally with people. That's what this is about.


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## SalvageMyMarriage (Apr 6, 2013)

Try attending some marriage courses on finances. The main issue is that both of you have different values on what money means to you. No one is right or wrong. Try to align your values?


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

SalvageMyMarriage said:


> Try attending some marriage courses on finances. The main issue is that both of you have different values on what money means to you. No one is right or wrong. Try to align your values?


I agree and makes sense!


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## hammbone50 (Apr 18, 2013)

I want to thank everyone for their time, help, comments. This opened my eyes to some things I didnt see or didnt realize and also verified I am not out in left field with some of my feelings and thoughts. Obviously the situation is not fixed but hopefully I can at least do my part to move things forward in the right direction. I obvisiously love my wife, think she is a great person and want to make her happy so hopefully taking some of the info here will allow for progress.


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