# How do I catch him?



## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

I never thought I'd post here.....

H and I have been married almost 12 years. We have 2 daughters. We were childhood friends. We have been having relationship troubles the past 2 years. I have another post "Grumpy Hubby"t that describes how the trouble started.

Since my last post, things have gotten worse. I admit I have detached from him. He is sleeping in our guest room every night. We act like roommates with kids. His work schedule is opposite mine and the kids, so we hardly see him, except for his days off. I didn't make a big issue about him sleeping in the guest room because I thought the distance may be good for us, temporarily. But instead it seems we've grown more comfortable with our distance. In the past 2 months or so, I've noticed some changes that are making me suspicious. 

He is in law enforcement and has a female partner. She is single, never been married, no kids. They would often stop at our house for bathroom breaks during their shift. The kids and I would be home during his time and always talked with her. My kids seem to like her . She would bring them candy and treats from time to time. She even offered to babysit the kids once so we could go out for the evening. I declined because it made me mad that perhaps my husband was telling her about our marital problems and she was butting in, trying to help matters by giving us a free night without the kids, as if that would solve all of our problems. 

Anyway, in the past two months, he hasn't brought her around. He has accidentally called me by her name more than once. For his birthday last month, she organized a work potluck and decorated his office, all a surprise! How nice. My husband made it a point to tell me she does this for everyone, which I don't think is true. 
I was able to figure out the password to his phone a few weeks ago and read some text messages between them. She had sent him a picture of her and a friend while she was on vacation and he replied that she looked hot. He also thanked her for his surprise work potluck and told her it would probably be the only thing he gets for his Birthday. Then told her how much our kids loved the birthday cake she baked him. A few days later she asked about his Birthday and he failed to mention all the nice things I did for him that day. 

I also checked the call log and noticed he's called her on his days off and on evenings when he's gone out. In the last few weeks he's left the house more than usual, come home from work a bit later than usual. 

Yesterday he went to a work function and took our youngest daughter who later told me that this woman sat with them all evening. 

I've read some threads here about catching cheaters but my situation is tough for a few reasons. First, they are cops and ride in a dept issued car. I worry about putting a VAR in it because I believe it would be found. Second, he has a dept issued phone, so I cannot check the phone bill. He keeps his phone on him all the time. Earlier today I tried to find it while he was in the shower and it was no where to be found. His job often requires overtime and I have no way to verify that he is actually working late. 

Any ideas? 

Am I being overly suspicious? I want to ask him but I think he will deny. I believe he's gotten into inappropriate work relationships before but I let them slide. I didn't know about emotional affairs and I really had no evidence. 

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gonnabealright (Oct 24, 2013)

I think a few years ago I may have turned a blind eye and ignored it myself but it sounds like you've been doing that and have done it in the past. Have you asked him why she was with him and your daughter all night? Maybe ask your husband to get a new partner? You two need some MCing. Sounds like there are some disconnects and you might get your answers there. Something is not right in your marriage. Even if its not an EA. Trust your gut, something is wrong.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

@Sparrow77

Since you have detached from him.
He has also checked out.

Why stay married?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Since the picture is very clear here, what would you want to happen?

Rebuild your relation or let him dwell out of it?


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## Shoshannah (Aug 29, 2012)

Placing VARS in your home might help, possibly in the guest bedroom. Also, placing a key logger on his computer of any computer he uses at home. Lastly, if all else fails and you have the money, you could hire a P.I.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Normally Im a car VAR advocate but DO NOT even think of trying that in a cop car! Under "Ways to start a sh!t storm", putting a var in a cop car is top five.

THe house VAR idea is good. Sony Model ICDPX312 or ICDPX333. 44K Bit rate. VOR on. Meeting mode.

lets rate your red flags on a x/10 scale

She would bring them candy and treats from time to time. 2/10

She even offered to babysit the kids once so we could go out for the evening. ?/10

I declined because it made me mad that perhaps my husband was telling her about our marital problems and she was butting in, trying to help matters by giving us a free night without the kids, as if that would solve allof our problems. Cops talk to their partners

Anyway, in the past two months, he hasn't brought her around.

5/10

He has accidentally called me by her name more than once. 

2/10


For his birthday last month, she organized a work potluck and decorated his office, all a surprise! How nice. My husband made it a point to tell me she does this for everyone, which I don't think is true. 3/10 

I was able to figure out the password to his phone a few weeks ago and read some text messages between them. She had sent him a picture of her and a friend while she was on vacation and he replied that she looked hot. 

3/10

He also thanked her for his surprise work potluck and told her it would probably be the only thing he gets for his Birthday. Then told her how much our kids loved the birthday cake she baked him. A few days later she asked about his Birthday and he failed to mention all the nice things I did for him that day.

I also checked the call log and noticed he's called her on his days off and on evenings when he's gone out. In the last few weeks he's left the house more than usual, come home from work a bit later than usual. 6/10

Yesterday he went to a work function and took our youngest daughter who later told me that this woman sat with them all evening. 3/10

I've read some threads here about catching cheaters but my situation is tough for a few reasons. First, they are cops and ride in a dept issued car. I worry about putting a VAR in it because I believe it would be found. Second, he has a dept issued phone, so I cannot check the phone bill.

He keeps his phone on him all the time. 

8/10!!!!

Earlier today I tried to find it while he was in the shower and it was no where to be found. His job often requires overtime and I have no way to verify that he is actually working late.

Yike and I thought badco had a tough road.

Does he take his cop car on those late nights he is not at work?

The one thing you have going is screwing in the cop car is very very risky. Cop cars attract attention. His nights out looks like the best opportunity.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I have had some guys like your husband in counseling over the years. Combat Vets is my main focus. Some of these guys are cops. They can be hard nuts to crack, but at some point they all cry like little boys. They have so much inside of them and have a thick massive wall built up around them. I can't tell you at the moment they break down, they all say, "Mac, you understand me". Yea, I do.

Him being close to his partner is normal. They share life threatening work. Can it lead to affairs? Of course it can, he is with her more then you, via work.

He is willing to talk to you. He does need professional help. His situation is not unique to him. Many folks in law enforcement shut down like this. But we can't allow him to stay there. Someone needs to get in his head. He is very capable of coming around but it will take some work. I have seen guys turn around with help, from the point of suicide, or severe depression and now they are involved with their families, smiling, etc. 

But, a good counselor can get in his head.

Right now he needs encouragement.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

If he's not actively in an emotional or sexual affair with her, he's at least at infatuation level at this point.

I really can't believe police departments pair up married men with single women like this.. it's a recipie for disaster.

I would imagine there is a rule with the police department about infidelity with co- workers.

You may want to look into that, consider submitting an anonymous report of them if you can get some evidence.

That may shut that partnership down right quick.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

This is a tough one. You have a few things you are dealing with. All the perfect storm for him (or even you) to slide into an EA or PA.

Him sleeping in the spare room, your comfort level with the distance.

Not that you don't deserve to know. Have you given any thought to how you want to proceed? It sounds like you've had enough of the situation as it is. If you suddenly have concrete proof what then?


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks everyone for taking the time to read my post. I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My gut tells me he's involved in an EA. I think he's gotten too close to her by sharing our marital problems. I want to confront him but only when I have some kind of proof. I think he still feels that what he's doing is technically ok because it isn't physical. If I have proof of texts or recorded phone conversations, he can't deny that what's going on is inappropriate. He doesn't have to partner up with this woman. He told me in the past that he rides with her because she likes to have a partner and the other guys don't like riding with her because she's bossy always wants to drive. And likes to be in control. So, a few years ago she asked him to ride with her and he felt bad and couldn't say no. He said he doesn't mind it because he likes to ride in the passenger seat and go with the flow. 
Side note: He is extremely passive, has no opinion, doesn't like to make decisions. That has always been very unattractive to me, but that's another story. 

Like Kristen said, it is the perfect storm. 6 months ago, I had no concerns about his partner, but as we've become more distant and detached from one another, I'm sure he is looking else where to have his needs met, and she is the women closest to him. For this, I feel partly at fault. I have largely given up trying to be close to him. Our relationship is exhausting and uncomfortable and I enjoy his work days where it's just the kids and I . 

If I discovered only an EA, I think we could work through it. I understand how these things happen. However, if it was a PA, I think I'd file for divorce.,it's hard to say what I'd do until I know all the facts. It's just finding out that is proving to be tough. 

He came home 2 hours late last night. He said there was a homicide at the end of the shift. I saw him writing his report this morning. So, I suppose I believe him. However, I saw him take his phone into the bathroom with him when he took a shower today. That seems a little odd. I wonder if he knows I looked at his phone a few weeks ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Keep reading here. Follow and trust your gut. No matter how tempted you are to confront don't do it until you have proof and a plan.

There is a lot of great information here. Just breathe and keep watching. In the meantime get a plan together. It sounds like you might be wanting to exit this marriage? Or do you think there is something left to save?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Does he carry a duty bag? If he does put the VAR in the pocket that faces the seat or some other spot he doesn't use. Those bags have tons of pockets and the guys rarely go through them. Get a VAR that is a pen. He'll never know.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> Does he carry a duty bag? If he does put the VAR in the pocket that faces the seat or some other spot he doesn't use. Those bags have tons of pockets and the guys rarely go through them. Get a VAR that is a pen. He'll never know.


I think she should talk to a lawyer before she tries putting a VAR anywhere that may catch "official police business" stuff. That's pretty dangerous territory.

To the OP... The problem with EA's is that they are very much "shades of grey". Read the book "Not Just Friends" as a starting point.

But honestly, I don't see why you're trying to prolong this zombie marriage. If neither of you is going to actively try to fix it, it's just walking dead, and it's a matter of time before it does blow up. I would say that even if your husband isn't having an affair with this woman, he's ripe for one with someone else. I'm not saying it's your fault; it sounds like he's actively distancing himself from you as well. You've got the kids to love and love you. He'll be shopping around for someone to fill his intimacy needs as well.

C


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Sparrow77 said:


> If I discovered only an EA, I think we could work through it. I understand how these things happen. However, if it was a PA, I think I'd file for divorce.,it's hard to say what I'd do until I know all the facts. It's just finding out that is proving to be tough.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You really first need to know what you want before you can take the right action!

Confronting for the sake of confronting, giving you some satisfaction for giving him emotional pain as punishment for his EA/PA is not going to work out for you.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

I said this in another forum and i will repeat it here.

Why on earth are you waiting to find out if his involvement is physical or not?

Confront him now before it gets that far!

Teach him what an emotional affair is, let him know what he is doing is not OK with you and that it must stop.

Let him know he needs to find a new riding partner and she's out.

Take a stand now. Do you think it's going to be easier getting him to stop after he starts sleeping with her?

Infidelity is like cancer, you treat it when you find out about it, not when it gets to a point of being so bad it's unbearable.

Deal with it now, you know enough to know he's cheating on you. Him taking his phone into the bathroom with him is a huge red light that he's involved with her far too much by now.

Get prepared to confront him as soon as possible.. Do not waste time on more detective work while they bond more.

You have a better chance of dealing with this now rather than later when you think you may have more proof.

Do you know why you will likely have more proof later? Because those two will continue to bond and give you more to confront him about.

Confront him now while there is far less to confront him with. Tell him you are uncomfortable with his relationship with her and it has to stop now, that he's allowing his relationship with her to interfere with his family.

Stop playing detective and confront him on what you already know to be true. It's more than enough to give him an ultimatum that this sick game of chicken needs to stop before your children suffer for it beyond repair.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Have you found out from his work what the policy is on co-workers having affairs and getting over-involved with their partners is?

You may want to confront her in public as well.

I agree with the OP that you need a plan before you do this. But I am just seeing far too much procrastination and detective work going on and not enough confronting or even planning on confronting.

Stop collecting info and deal with this now, it will just get worse if you leave it alone...


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

PBear said:


> I think she should talk to a lawyer before she tries putting a VAR anywhere that may catch "official police business" stuff. That's pretty dangerous territory.


A lawyer will tell her don't do it but thing is she needs to know. As a wife of a cop she's already privy to official police business stuff. This is no different than any other BS using illegal VAR to catch cheaters. 

PS a cop gave me the advice about the duty bag.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

I think I get this feeling this is maybe not a PA...yet. 

Weightlifter is right on with the ratings. ( BTW weighlifter I like how you take the time to breakdown the situations which people post. I think it makes it more clear to the OP)

My feelings about being quiet and gathering evidence are conflicted. Because by not confronting immediately you do run the risk of possibly being able to stop an A or keep it from going further. OTOH by confronting too early you send an A that's already going on deeper underground and then you become subjected to the gaslighting and crazy making. 

It's a tough call to make. 

In your case, I think you need to confront now rather than spend days/weeks gathering evidence while an affair blossoms.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

Oh and do NOT even think of VAR or GPS his car or bag if he is a cop! Just accept that that avenue of evidence is unavailable to you. If there really is something going on they will be making phone calls in the house or other places you can VAR anyway. You can var the house and gps your personal car. Check credit cards, look for burner phones, etc.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> A lawyer will tell her don't do it but thing is she needs to know. As a wife of a cop she's already privy to official police business stuff. This is no different than any other BS using illegal VAR to catch cheaters.
> 
> PS a cop gave me the advice about the duty bag.


I didn't see this before I posted. This aspect of OPs scenario is interesting so I'm curious.


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## lacey99 (Oct 18, 2013)

Sparrow77 said:


> My gut tells me he's involved in an EA. I think he's gotten too close to her by sharing our marital problems. I want to confront him but only when I have some kind of proof. I think he still feels that what he's doing is technically ok because it isn't physical.
> 
> Like Kristen said, it is the perfect storm. 6 months ago, I had no concerns about his partner, but as we've become more distant and detached from one another, I'm sure he is looking else where to have his needs met, and she is the women closest to him. For this, I feel partly at fault. I have largely given up trying to be close to him. Our relationship is exhausting and uncomfortable and I enjoy his work days where it's just the kids and I .
> 
> ...


Sorry your here...my H had an EA almost PA last year- with someone he spent a lot of time w/at our business. I thought it made a difference because it was "just" a EA and like ur marriage, ours was going thru a rough time-opposite hours, both very busy, I kinda was ok when he was at work, made it easier w/kids schedule BUT for me the piece that still doesn't sit well was the effort (any at all) he was giving the OW was/should have been directed at our marriage, even if it was to move out/D or fixed us, him or me. we are in R, a lot from me because of our 2 kids and he is sorry and from the moment I finally got the truth he has made effort toward us/me to fix/R. I guess you might not know where this is heading but until he gets out of the fog/why is she getting his effort/attention. Maybe you guys will end up R or D-either way it's tough to know what you want/can it work too. lots of good info on this site


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

The phone into the bathroom thing is bad bad bad.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

So, we talked last night and overall it felt like a really good. We were able to be open about many things we've both kept to ourselves for a long time. I asked him about his partner and he denied anything. He also denies any other inappropriate relationship with anyone else. 

He has slept in our bed again the last two nights. Things feel better but I am still suspicious. His phone is still no where to be found. Also, I noticed on our iTunes account he purchased an app to store pictures with a pass code. 

Something isn't right. I feel like I didn't have enough proof to confront him but I also didn't know when I would be able to get anymore proof.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Sparrow77 said:


> So, we talked last night and overall it felt like a really good. We were able to be open about many things we've both kept to ourselves for a long time. I asked him about his partner and he denied anything. He also denies any other inappropriate relationship with anyone else.
> 
> He has slept in our bed again the last two nights. Things feel better but I am still suspicious. His phone is still no where to be found. Also, I noticed on our iTunes account he purchased an app to store pictures with a pass code.
> 
> ...


Your gut is typically correct. If it seems off often times it is. Most slip up. Just stay alert.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Sparrow77 said:


> So, we talked last night and overall it felt like a really good. We were able to be open about many things we've both kept to ourselves for a long time. I asked him about his partner and he denied anything. He also denies any other inappropriate relationship with anyone else.
> 
> He has slept in our bed again the last two nights. Things feel better but I am still suspicious. *His phone is still no where to be found. Also, I noticed on our iTunes account he purchased an app to store pictures with a pass code.
> 
> ...


This is why you don't confront until you have solid evidence. Now he's going to be a lot more careful and it will make it that much tougher to get intel. Not to mention that it's not enough evidence to demand that he stops working with her; and sadly for you, he sees her every day. He can also use the excuse that this is "police business" and he can't show you or talk about his police communication.

I think the best choice right now is that you demand that he be transparent with all his personal devices. No hidden passwords, and he will show you his cell and personal computer when asked. Give him a strong consequence if he doesn't agree. 

But don't give up on the snooping until you're satisfied nothing is going on.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Confronts are nuclear war or nothing. Confronthard not soft. How many times here on TAM... Soft confront... Disaster.

Play trusting dumb spouse. Make him think he has you snowed.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> The phone into the bathroom thing is bad bad bad.


Amen. The reddest of red flags. My W did that and started locking the door as well. My first clue that she was sexting with POS.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sparrow

When you talk to him you can approach him in a few different ways.

As his wife?

As his lover?

As his partner?

Or as his long term childhood friend......

Might I suggest you approach him as his LTC friend. Make him feel that he can tell you anything. That he can safely tell you anything without you passing judgement or threatening divorce.

He needs to feel he can trust with anything the way he probably trusts his partner.

Law enforcement and soldiers are a different breed. While many feel they are above their own guidelines or laws they also rarely trust any person outside there profession.

You need to make him feel safe and get the truth.

You need to watch his actions closely. Do not call him out on everything you see like the picture APP.

You will get the truth but it will take time.

Trust your gut. I think your gut is right on the money.

Make him feel that your long term friendship means he can trust you with anything.

You can render judgement on your marriage after you have all the facts.

HM

PS
Have you ever reached out to his partner to get her opinion. Hers doesn't matter but her comments may give you insight. I rarely suggest this course of action and it may alert them, force them to hide things better but it also may get the relationship and all its issues out in the open.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Allen_A said:


> If he's not actively in an emotional or sexual affair with her, he's at least at infatuation level at this point.
> 
> I really can't believe police departments pair up married men with single women like this.. it's a recipie for disaster.
> 
> ...


They probably have to due to equality laws and policies.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

Well, today, he was showing me a pic on his phone and I was trying to zoom into the picture and accidentally swiped to the next pic instead. It was a naked woman, taken in a mirror. 
We were out to eat with my kids and so I had to hold in my reaction. He grabbed the phone away and quickly deleted it. Then told me I didn't see what I had seen.

Once we were home, we went out to the garage to talk away from the kids. He initially lied and said it was one pic from a work friend that she sent while drunk. Then I asked to see the phone and he refused. I told him I knew about the app he downloaded for storing pics privately. Then he was a little more forthcoming.

He basically said they have been texting daily and the pics were from one occasion. 

This is one of the women partners he's had several years ago, not his current partner.
He swears nothing physical has ever happened with her or anyone. 

I'm in shock. I'm sick to my stomach. He tried to blame me, that he was vulnerable because I have been distant.
I don't know if I have all of the truth. I don't know if I even care. How do you trust someone again after they lie to your face?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

I'm so angry that during our talk the other day, I tried to explain what an EA is and that I could understand how easily it happens without one actually intending to start an affair. I even confessed that at one time I felt I was dangerously close to an EA and I answered all his questions, told him who and all the details. 

Like you mentioned, Happy Man, I felt like we had reached a point where we were having an honest conversation and I was trying to make him feel like he could tell me anything and we could try to work through it. But he lied to me. I asked him directly, about getting too close to any co workers. He flat out denied it. 

I wonder how long this would have gone on had I not seen the picture. A PA was the next step. It was just a matter of time. I don't even know what to say to him at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

The picture is not good.

What is worse is the lying.

What do you want to do?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Sparrow77 said:


> I'm so angry that during our talk the other day, I tried to explain what an EA is and that I could understand how easily it happens without one actually intending to start an affair. I even confessed that at one time I felt I was dangerously close to an EA and I answered all his questions, told him who and all the details.
> 
> Like you mentioned, Happy Man, _I felt like we had reached a point where we were having an honest conversation and I was trying to make him feel like he could tell me anything and we could try to work through it._ But he lied to me. I asked him directly, about getting too close to any co workers. He flat out denied it.
> 
> ...


Your post before this one and this one show you are not thinking clear. Follow the advise you have been given, and will get along the way. Men typically deny everything in the face of even the most obvious evidence.

A naked picture on his phone?? You need to prepare for the worst, not work from your hope for the best, don't trickle truth yourself...

Now stop informing him where your are, only confront again when you totally can blow him out of the water. It's your best chance.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

After I got the kids to sleep, I came to my room to have a few minutes to myself. I figured at some point he would want to talk to me. The house was silent and I wondered if he was even here. I walked out into the garage to see if his car was there and he was inside his car on the phone with her! He sneaked out there after he thought I was a sleep to call her!!

Does this sound remorseful? I was furious. I told him to leave. He refused. I just walked back inside. I wish I had stayed out there while he finished his call. 

Several minutes later he came to talk to me. He said he called her to tell her what happened. I told him he should have called her in front of me and his reply was "shoulda, woulda, coulda". 
I asked more questions and the details of the story keep changing. At one point he told me I was "setting him up" by knowing about the private picture app but not telling him! I told him hat I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. 

Is it normal for him to be so defensive? And trying to turn this around on me? I just keep thinking that if I were the one that was caught, I would be panicked, not sneaking out to call the person I just got busted with naked pics of. He says he is sorry but his attitude doesn't show it. 

I haven't been able to sleep much. I feel numb. I hardly cried. I don't know what I want to do. I think I need to get a VAR. That's the only decision I can make right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

It's obvious to me this is a PA. Just too many red flags. If he doesn't tell you the truth, doesn't demonstrate complete transparency, doesn't drop her as a partner and send her a no contact letter; you need to implement the 180 and start the divorce process.

Even then, with them working together; it may not be enough to ensure no contact - but at least it's a starting point to test his remorse. 

He's treating you like a door mat. Don't let him.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Sparrow, 

I know you are in a panic. I know you want answers yesterday.

You NEED to slow down and pay attention to the advice given here. Especially since your case is different in that you WH is a cop.

So much additional damage can be done by a "soft confront". Now he has time to cover deeper and better. He has time to make his own plans that if he goes according to script include trashing you, making you sound like the crazy scorned woman.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Sparrow77 said:


> I told him hat I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.


You sure are.

He's cheating on you.

He's having a PA with his partner. 

You don't need a VAR.

You need a lawyer.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sparrow

His defensiveness and aloofness are signs of guilt.

You need a VAR. Because you are not getting all the truth.

Keep watching.

What comes out of his mouth are lies.

Judge him by his actions not by his words.

He does not respect you now. But he will.

HM


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You definitely should start the 180. This will give you strength. Please start to try to think in a more cold-blooded way. The 180 will help you to think more clearly.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

Just to clarify, this woman is not his current partner. She was his partner about 10 years ago. Their relationship made me uncomfortable at the time but I didn't want to be a nagging, jealous, new wife. They still work for the same department but different divisions. They do not see one another at work. They have kept in contact from time to time. I was aware of that but was under the impression it was a call or a text every several months. 

He says about 1 month ago he told her about our marital problems and they hagan talking more and the pictures came after she had been out drinking. 

Not that it matters who it is. The circumstances are the same. 

Is there any reason I should demand to see his phone? He can erase things now so I don't see the point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes he can erase everything as it shows up. He can use password locked photo lockers...

It's been said many times, where there is a will there is a way. He knows now. But you know honestly do you need more to make a decision? I'd guess you do. 

If I were in your shoes I'd be in a lawyers office ASAP. I'd do 180 and go dark on him. I'd also request a meeting with the head of HR at his job (but I'd float that past a lawyer at this point). If you are going to divorce him. An unemployed ex is as worthless as they come with kids to support. 

So what do you need?


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

You are in a panic mode right now, you need to calm down. Once you are, think...just really think...what does your gut tell you? 

Here is one thing that even the most expert manipulator cannot manipulate: our instinct to survive. Your gut tells you something is not right here. You found a naked picture of a real woman, not a porn model, a woman that he works with. So what do you think is happening between them? If your girlfriend told you this about her husband, what would you tell her? Do you think it's "nothing" if a coworker sent his naked picture to you? Once you confronted him, he sneaked out to call her. Do you think it's really "nothing?" 

Is it an affair? Hell yes. EA...PA...what does it matter? Short of hiring a PA, you are in a murky water trying to spy on him and his coworker since they are in law enforcement. Unless you live in a fault state and indisputable evidence of affair will give you advantage in the divorce, why do you drive yourself crazy to find the proof? You have an idea, a clear idea of what is going on here. 

Now, the real question here...what are your boundaries? What can you tolerate and forgive? Even if you think an EA is forgivable, he needs to stop ALL contact with her. You need to establish boundaries here and make him know in no uncertain terms that if he crosses them, he is out. 

If you manage to calm down, talk to him again and TELL HIM (do not ask him) that he is having an affair. No buts, no ifs. Do not let him justify his action. The way to deal with a manipulator is not to listen to anything he says...listen to his action. He can choose to stop this and earn your trust again (by letting you verify everything he says about her because he has proven himself to be a liar), or he is on his way out of the door. His choice.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

What state Sparrow? It matters a lot in like 7.
It matters a bit in like 7 more.
It matters nothing in most others.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

Stronger-now: thank you for the sound advice. I needed to read it. 

We talked again last night when he came home from work. The conversation started with me asking questions about the details of their contact: text, phone, in-person. He admitted to some things and denied others. He then brought up my almost EA that i told him about last week ( this was a few years ago and it was one sided. I developed an admiration for a doctor I worked with. There was nothing romantic or sexual) He said he wanted more details. I told him he was deflecting. Then it turned into 15 minutes of him berating me. He told me how I have pushed him away for over a year, I was not interested in sex, I didn't care about him, etc. he basically told me what an awful person I was. I sobbed. I have never felt so low. Then he asked if we could stop talking and he wanted to hug me while I calmed down. I didn't want to be near him but was afraid to tell him not to hug me because he would say I pushed him away again. 

I brought up this woman again and told him that I know there is more to the situation. He denied inappropriate texts, phone calls or ever seeing her. It was only when I told him that I knew his phone passcode and had read the text messages (I I did not really read them) that he finally came clean. He told me the chain of events. He said they met up once while working and that he kissed her. 

I know I have hurt him by my disconnect and he felt unwanted. He was dying for attention and wanted to feel wanted and I wasn't providing that. He must feel resentment towards me and it came out last night. I just can't help but feel like he's trying to equate my neglect with his cheating. 

I feel like he should be more remorseful. Am I crazy? I've slept very little in the past few days and cannot think clearly. I feel so confused by all of these emotions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You are not crazy.

But you both need professional counseling.

And yes he is deflecting.

You both have to stop hurting each other.

You have to be able to communicate without slinging the mud.

And he needs to be 100% honest with you.

HM


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

Also, he told 3 of his work buddies about our marital problems. He said they think he is a saint for staying in this marriage or at least not sleeping around considering that I have not been interested in sex for over a year. I feel so humiliated that these people and their wives, I'm sure, know about our troubles. I'm sure he left out his faults and the ways he let me down. I don't know why that is bothering me so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Sparrow,
I am really sorry you are going through this but now you have to start taking care of you and stop allowing him to torture you. 

You have to set boundaries. You have to be very clear in this. If he can not follow these things you have to be ready to walk away. No questions asked no sticking around to see if he will change. 

I would start with these rules. 

You get access to his phone and any time of the day and all his passwords. If he hesitates even for a second I would tell him to leave and if he wont then you leave. 

No more private calls anymore. You tell him if you find him sneaking off anymore with the phone you are gone. Your done playing this game. 

The verbal abuse stops now. If he cant talk to in a respectful manner he does not deserve a response period. In fact I would change how I treated him all together until I seen actual honest remorse. If he tries to take control of the conversation simply get up and walk away. Tell him you are not going to talk to him until he can talk to you in a respectful way. 

Its really up to you but I will tell you how it was explained to me. 

If you want respect you have to demand it and nothing less. You set the tone for how people treat you. 

I am truly sorry you are going through this and I know this stuff is harder to do than us just telling you to do these things. I hope for you that you can get this resolved quickly. 

Just know we are all here for you. 

Clay


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Sparrow, 

You are ruining your marriage by not trying to be rational and listening to people here.

Bring yourself to a halt in your whirlwind of emotions!


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

Clay-thank you for the suggestions. I'm going to tell him tonight that I need access to his phone. He has told lie after lie, I can't imagine trusting him again. 

See-Listen-love- How am I ruining my marriage? What would you be doing if you were in my situation? I realize I'm very emotional and not thinking clearly. But I'm not sure what I've done that I shouldn't have done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Sparrow77 said:


> Clay-thank you for the suggestions. I'm going to tell him tonight that I need access to his phone. He has told lie after lie, I can't imagine trusting him again.
> 
> See-Listen-love- How am I ruining my marriage? What would you be doing if you were in my situation? I realize I'm very emotional and not thinking clearly. But I'm not sure what I've done that I shouldn't have done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are giving in to your emotions and run around like a beheaded chicken.

You do not react to the many sound advices you have been given. My impression is you do not listen well.

This way you are an easy target for your husband. He can kick you around as he wishes to.

Read the posts again, evaluate the advice, make a plan. Follow the plan. Let your actions be commented by the other posters.

Your best chance.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sparrow77 said:


> Also, he told 3 of his work buddies about our marital problems. He said they think he is a saint for staying in this marriage or at least not sleeping around considering that I have not been interested in sex for over a year. I feel so humiliated that these people and their wives, I'm sure, know about our troubles. I'm sure he left out his faults and the ways he let me down. I don't know why that is bothering me so much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It would bother us more if it did not bother you that he is blabbing about your marriage issues to others......

It would mean you were checked out of the marriage. And you are not.

Stop him from lying to you. and from your husband.

Tell him he comes to you to discuss issues in your marriage. Explain to him that it is hard to be intimate with him when you feel he is being intimate with others.......

It takes two to marry Sparrow. It takes two to have a successful marriage. But it only takes one to destroy it.

You both have valid issues. Step back. Evaluate.

Understand what it is you want in the marriage and then make it clear to him what it is you want.

Have him make it clear what he wants from you and the marriage.

Then put effective boundaries in place on your relationship.

See if he can live up to those.

Because your man is playing games.

HM


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Sparrow77 said:


> After I got the kids to sleep, I came to my room to have a few minutes to myself. I figured at some point he would want to talk to me. The house was silent and I wondered if he was even here. I walked out into the garage to see if his car was there and he was inside his car on the phone with her! He sneaked out there after he thought I was a sleep to call her!!
> 
> Does this sound remorseful? I was furious. I told him to leave. He refused. I just walked back inside. I wish I had stayed out there while he finished his call.
> 
> ...


Not that I want to defend your husband, because he's clearly done some very wrong things, but I might be able to explain the other angle here a bit...

There are several reasons off the top of my head for wanting to call her quickly. If she is involved in some way, married or in a relationship, he might want to warn her of what you have discovered and to be prepared that you might try to contact her significant other. He might be warning her to not call or text outside of work hours for a while since you'll be watching him closely. He might be telling her that their contact was inappropriate and that it needs to end. You just don't know.

Also, he likely was very, very panicked, but just responded differently from how you might have. You just can't know if he did the right thing with that phone call (by telling her they need to end contact) or not...


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

You have your work cut out for you here I'm afraid...

First, I think you should sit him down and ask him point blank if he values your marriage and would like to see it saved, and if he is willing to do what it takes to make that happen? If so, move on...

I think at a minimum, you need to insist on total transparency with him, and make it clear to him that he cannot in any way express frustration or displeasure with how that manifests. That means you get to see his phone whenever you want without a moments hesitation (or rolling eyes, or "just a minute's" or loud sighs, etc.), that you can call him to find out where he is and he needs to answer the phone or provide an acceptable reason later on why he couldn't. Same goes for e-mail and his computer access.

He needs to have no contact with the former partner of any kind, period.

He should be allowed to discuss his personal conflicts and struggles with a close personal friend (or maybe two, at most) of the same sex. We all need good friends who have our back, and I don't think it's unreasonable for us to have one friend we can totally be honest with. Yes, YOU should still be his best friend, and whenever possible, all concerns regarding your marriage should be expressed between the both of you first, but there are times when that is difficult, scary, or problematic. It sounds like, so far, he has discussed his marital issues with at least 3 other co-worker friends (males I presume) and at least two female co-worker friends, the former and current police partners. That's just too many, and it makes it sound like he has a deep rooted need to be thought of very highly, like a saint, even at the expense of his wife. (This is a problem I have had, so I recognize it well) So he should limit himself to one friend that he can be that honest with.

Related to that, especially because he has already opened up to her regarding your marital issues, I really think he should request a new partner. Whether they had an EA or PA or not, I think at least one or two lines have already been crossed, mild as they might be. From your prior posts, it sounds like this won't be a big problem, as it sounds like there are other potential partners available.

You should both start attending MC again.

Lastly, you might consider giving him the opportunity to request some changes/help from you. It'll show that you want to see the marriage saved and that you can acknowledge at least your very small part of this.

Otherwise, listen to HappyMan, he seems to have the right idea.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

CDBaker-you hit the nail on the head. He gave me a very similar explanation for why he rushed to call her. Her husband is also a cop in the same dept and I think they were both worried I would out them. He says he told her they would not be speaking again. She agreed that she would stop any contact with him. I believe there was more to the conversation but I will never know. The phone call hurt me more than some of the other things. 

He seems to want to justify his actions to people. I think that's why he told several work friends. I think he is afraid that if this gets out, he will look bad. So he has to be sure people know that I haven't been a good wife and have neglected him and pushed him into an affair. 
This doesn't surprise me. He has always seemed to think he was superior to others, even me. As a result, he has a hard time admitting fault in anything. 

A lot of people here have said I need to decide what I want and I'm finding that tough to know right now. I want to work on things mostly for the kids. We continue to talk and get things out in the open. That feels good but I'm afraid that I won't be able to trust him again. Not to mention the feelings of humiliation and hurt and anger. Sometimes I feel like I have control of them and other times these waves of emotion come over me and all I imagine is kicking him out of our house. 

He has sent text messages today saying he loves me and hopes I have a good day. He called me at work and texted me again on my way home (he is working tonight and I won't see him). He also called to offer help with shopping or preparation for thanksgiving dinner. It seems like too much. Like he's trying too hard. I feel like he's trying to smother me with kindness so I can hurry up and forgive him. I don't want to walk around being angry or mean to him but it just seems like he shouldn't be getting off so easily.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

This to me was the hardest part of trying to figure out what I needed to do to take care of me and my kids. My xW would show remorse and honesty it would have been better if she just ran off with the OM instead of stringing me along. 

I hope at least you have a wonderful Thanks Giving Day. 

Clay


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

It sounds like you want to R with your husband but you are not sure how deep this goes? He is cheating at some level maybe an EA on it's way to a PA? 

Have you told him you want a good marriage but you need honesty and privacy of your relationship.

Have you two talked about MC?

You also mentioned no sex in a year. That is a big issue and I am not excusing him at all. This is awful and it is all on him.

Sex is really different for a man and it is how we get our intimacy and feelings of love. If you want to stay married I would run to MC right away.

If you cannot get over what he has done then you need to get the D done


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Sparrow, you touched on a lot of key stuff...

First, it is pretty natural for anyone in that type of situation to respond the way he has. In order to do something like kissing another woman when you are married (another married woman no less), you have to either accept that you are a bad person with no morals and no respect for your spouse, or you have to do a whole lot of lying to yourself. of course, no one likes to accept that they are bad people with no morals, so fooling ourselves is usually the way we go. We as humans lie to and trick ourselves into believing that certain bad things are acceptable all the time. Simple stuff like maybe leaving work 15 minutes early, eating that free donut in the break room when you are supposed to be on a diet, choosing to relax and watch TV when you told your spouse you'd clean out the garage, etc. We find little excuses and find ways to rationalize our choices.

So for spouses who cheat, (PA, EA, doesn't make a difference) they have to demonize those who they know will be hurt by their actions in order to make themselves into a "saintly victim" of sort. After all, a man who cheats on his loving and supportive wife, great mother to his three children, with a woman who is also married to a wonderful man who works hard to support her and is an excellent father to their children as well, is a horrible person right? But if you change the details a bit and imagine a man who is cheating on his wife who abuses and neglects him, drinks too much, doesn't work or help out at home, and does nothing for her children, with a woman his is married to a man who beats her regularly, is addicted to porn and hookers and doesn't even see his kids most days, then the cheater's decision to cheat isn't seen as being so wrong. Heck, a lot of people might say that neither cheating spouse in those circumstances should feel guilty about their actions.

So it's not uncommon at all for cheaters to rewrite history, to portray their spouses as negligent, unsupportive, uncaring, exaggerate weaknesses, dig up old mistakes, etc. Another way to rationalize cheating would be to paint yourself and your spouse as innocent victims of circumstance and/or immaturity. They might say things like, "I'm not sure if I ever really loved him/her" or "We got married too young. He/she is a really great person, but we were young, dumb and didn't even know what love really is." In the end the goal is the same. You aren't a bad person for cheating, you've just been beaten down, neglected, used and abused for so long that you were weak towards this wonderful new person that you've met and just couldn't help it. Even in situations where much of that is true, it still doesn't change the fact that they fool themselves into being able to cheat and still sleep at night.

So everything you said about him feeling like he needs to justify his actions or make sure that those who know what he's done view you in a negative light makes sense. You can imagine it. 

"Dude, you cheated on your wife?! How could you do that?!" 

"You don't understand, my wife has used me for years, never supports me in anything, she drinks every night, ignores the kids completely, we haven't had sex in over a year, and doesn't work or do anything to help around the house! I've been miserable and starved for affection for so long, that it just kind of happened. I know it was wrong to cheat, but..."

I do get the feeling that he has a constant need for others to believe that he is just wonderful. That he is a great husband, a great father, a great man, loving and charitable, etc. One way that someone like that is able to feed that need is by voluntarily throwing others under the bus, so to speak. Not just their partners either. "John went home without filling out his paperwork, so I went ahead and stayed late to take care of it." "Sorry, my wife was supposed to clean up this mess but I guess she forgot." "I got her a brand new bike for our anniversery. She didn't get me anything though, I guess she forgot..." Etc. etc. etc. It's all about volunteering negative information about someone else that enables you to point out something positive about yourself and makes you look even more wonderful by comparison. 

I used to do this stuff ALL THE TIME to my wife and had absolutely no idea until a close friend of mine pointed it out one day. He gave me a few recent examples, and I was dumbfounded. The one I remember most was when he came over on friday evening for our usual game night and while walking through the kitchen I apologized to him for the mess of dirty dishes on the table while adding that my wife had said she would take care of them but did not. He stopped me and said something like, "Dude, I dont need to know that your wife was supposed to do that, and you shouldn't be telling me that either. People make mistakes, things happen, etc. and you don't need to go out of your way to broadcast that to others in order to make yourself look better. I could care less about your dishes being left out, and you shouldn't care if I am judging you on that or not. How do you think it would make her feel if she knew that any tiny thing she does wrong is going to be shared with everyone you know in an effort to feel better about yourself at her expense?" Yikes, that was an eye opener.

In my situation, I'm not sure if I ever actually thought I was superior to my wife (though maybe I did), but I definitely felt a need to ACT like I was superior and know that others thought I was as well. Admitting weakness or failure was very difficult because I was afraid to put any dents in that wonderful image I had worked so hard to craft, and when I did admit fault, it too was usually spun in such a way as to boost my self image. "Yes I told you I would wake up early to mow the lawn this morning and I didn't. I stayed up so late last night doing laundry, dishes, washing the dog, etc. that I overslept, so I'm sorry." That sort of thing.

I think you really need to get to the bottom of everything that he has or has not done. I'm not saying that you don't have the whole truth yet (we can't possibly know) but it sounds like you both aught to get into MC and discuss it. He probably needs to open up his whole life to prove that he isn't violating your trust anymore, and come clean with any parts of the story that may not have come out yet. You may have heard the term "trickle truth" here a few times around here...

With all of that said... try not to be too harsh or frustrated about his newfound efforts to please you right now. I'm sure he hates the feeling that he has now of knowing how deeply he has hurt you. The self deception that allowed him to do what he did won't fool him enough into shielding him from that pain now. He'll want to "make things better" as quickly as possible, because as I mentioned above, someone like that is miserably uncomfortable when they know that someone is viewing them negatively. With that said, I'm sure the guy loves you very much or he wouldn't bother, and he desperately wants your forgiveness. My suggestion would be that you take a moment to recognize his efforts and say that you do appreciate them, but that he needs to understand that it is going to take time for you to heal from this and sort through your emotions and relational needs. You can ask that he be patient with you, and that he understand that he is going to need to step up and open up his life to you if you are going to be able to rebuilt trust and reach a point of true forgiveness. The message being that he isn't going to get off easy, but you recognize the effort and you will give him a chance to make things right, but he'll just have to be patient.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

What about the partner? The one he was spending so much off-time with? The one who didn't send the picture, but nonetheless caused you to worry enough to start this thread?


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

Sparrow I am so freaking mad at your husband and he's not even mine!! i'm so sorry you are going through this.

This is very similar to my cheating ex. I had the gut feelings etc etc. I just couldn't FIND anything!! I, like you, would suspect what turned out to be the wrong women. Finally, after going through all his phone records, surrounded by mountains of paper, I went back one more time and called one more number that I had been ignoring cause it was out of state. Boom. It was an old employee of his who hadn't worked for him for 3 years. Someone I had suspected also, and was told by him I was jealous and unreasonable. The calls were every single day. I literally almost had a heart attack when I heard her voice on her vm message. To this day, he denies ANYTHING. It ended up being the reason we divorced, after years of me trying desperately to go back in time using all the methods we talk about here, to try and piece together what happened. 

I will say this: if someone has moved away or no longer works with our spouses, and YEARS later they are in contact and sending nudie pics AND you discover they were indeed making out kissing back when you had suspicions, then THEY HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT THIS WHOLE TIME. What are the circumstances where your H, or my ex, would have suddenly after years just hooked back up communicating and sending nudes after years of supposedly no contact? I'm sorry to have to point this out, but it's true. 

This is bad and you have done nothing wrong. But pleas heed the advice to calm down at the moment, for yourself not for him. 

This also brings up a nagging thought that's been on my mind a lot lately: what if you suspect or even confront the wrong person as the OP??? I wonder how often this happens.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

CDBaker-Thanks so much for your insight. All of it made so much sense to me. I appreciate the time you took to type all of that!

I told him today that I need some time. I was worried that if I didn't forgive him quickly and be affectionate etc, that it would make him start things up again with her. 

He reassured me that he knows I will need some time to forgive him. What makes it hard is that we were already so distant and now we have the cheating to add to our problems. He said all he wants from me right now is to be able to talk to him, to communicate my feelings, no matter what they are. He seems remorseful and willing to do anything I ask so that we can move forward.

He has agreed to go to MC, which he refused in the past. I'm really trying to stay positive and not freak out. I really appreciate the support here. It helps.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> What about the partner? The one he was spending so much off-time with? The one who didn't send the picture, but nonetheless caused you to worry enough to start this thread?


After I found out it was not the current partner, I kinda let that whole issue go and forgot about it. Today, he called me on his way to work and said that he would be asking for a new partner just to prevent any suspicion on my part. This was his idea, so I felt good about that.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

sedona said:


> Sparrow I am so freaking mad at your husband and he's not even mine!! i'm so sorry you are going through this.
> 
> This is very similar to my cheating ex. I had the gut feelings etc etc. I just couldn't FIND anything!! I, like you, would suspect what turned out to be the wrong women. Finally, after going through all his phone records, surrounded by mountains of paper, I went back one more time and called one more number that I had been ignoring cause it was out of state. Boom. It was an old employee of his who hadn't worked for him for 3 years. Someone I had suspected also, and was told by him I was jealous and unreasonable. The calls were every single day. I literally almost had a heart attack when I heard her voice on her vm message. To this day, he denies ANYTHING. It ended up being the reason we divorced, after years of me trying desperately to go back in time using all the methods we talk about here, to try and piece together what happened.
> 
> ...


So, it sounds like you tried R but eventually divorced your husband? What made you decide to finally divorce? I am really worried about being able to forgive. 

I think it gave my husband a false sense of confidence when I asked him about his current partner. I think he was glad I suspected her, so my focus would be off the real person.

I swear I am being calm . A few people have said I need to calm down. The things I say here are what is going through my head but in person I am trying to hold it together. For my kids, and at work. And while I want my husband to know he hurt me, I also want him to know that he can't and won't destroy me over this.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

The last few days have gone well. We've had time off work and plenty of opportunity to spend family time together. He helped with Thanksgiving dinner and cleanup, which he's never done before. It was nice to have help. He even did several chores around that house that I usually do on weekends. 

I just can't help but feel that this is just to win me over. It's nice but I wonder if it is sincere. Does he really see how lopsided our contribution to household stuff has been? I suppose the thought of losing your family can be a big wake up call. 

He has not pushed me for sex but wants to hug and kiss me all day long. I feel uncomfortable with it. Partly because he was never the one to initiate affection before and also, sometimes I'm angry with him and I don't feel like being affectionate. But I'm also afraid to ask him to stop because it will hurt him and make him feel like I don't want him. 

I had lunch with a close girl friend yesterday and was gone all afternoon. He sent me at least 4 texts saying he missed me, he loves me, asking if I miss him. I just wanted to text back Stop!!! I'm feeling smothered. I was a bit relieved that he went back to work today. But within an hour he sent me a text message saying he missed me and asked if I missed him too. 

I don't know how to handle this. I'm hoping to get MC ASAP but the few therapists I've called are booked for a least a few weeks or aren't taking new patients. I will continue my search tomorrow. I'm the meantime, if anyone has been in this situation before, I'd like to know how you've dealt with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I understand the smothering feeling.

But let me ask you a question.

Do you miss him? At all?

Where is your head at right now?

Where is your heart right now?

And what do you tell your H when he asks you if you miss him? If you love him?

HM


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

His being more attentive and affectionate is good BUT the pushing for you to respond to his overboard and sudden attention would bug me. 

Feeling smothered can be unsettling,especially if you are used to feeling ignored or neglected.

You need to find a way to try to be encouraging of his progress and attempts to change but keep it more "real" I am getting the idea that something feels strange about it because you don't feel it is genuine?


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

HM- to be honest, I don't miss him. We spent Wednesday evening, all day Thursday and Friday together. We sat around, talked, watched movies, played board games with the kids. I've never been so lazy in my life! But I felt like it was needed. Like we need to spend that time together. Saturday afternoon, I was surprised by the multiple texts saying I love you and miss you. I responded by saying that I appreciated him taking care of the kids while I was gone, I was looking forward to meeting them for dinner. The third time I didn't respond. 

Today he again has sent 2 text messages about missing me. I finally asked him if he was serious, since we had just spent so much time together and he said that yes, that it was because we had such a good weekend and now we are back to our work week and there are some days where we don't see each other at all. I told him that I would try to wait up for him one or two nights this week (he usually gets home after 11 and I'm asleep since I have to be up early). 

My feeling seem to change daily. Sometimes I feel optimistic, like we can get through this. Other times I feel so mad and hurt that he had this relationship with this woman who I thought was a friend and lied multiple times about it. I think about how it would likely still be going on had I not come across the picture on his phone. 

I'm frustrated that he is pressuring me with all this love and affection when he didn't seem to want to do it before. Now it seems like a tactic to force me to get over this. It's only been a week and I feel like he's not allowing me to have my own emotions. I keep thinking maybe I should have asked him to leave for a while. 

We were very distant before. And because of work schedules, it was the norm to not see eachother for 2 days at a time. He didn't seem to care before. 

Also, I told him during one of our talks last week that I feel like I've lost the spark between us. He said it's never died for him. But knowing how I feel, he keeps forcing himself on me. Like he's ignoring what I said and just believing what he wants to believe. 

Geez, I sound so angry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Sparrow77 said:


> It's only been a week and I feel like he's not allowing me to have my own emotions. I keep thinking maybe I should have asked him to leave for a while.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The pattern is the same like him having an EA/PA, he is playing the field, which happens to be you at this moment.

You must process and battle through your emotions to heal. But that will take months, or years.

The only thing you could do towards him, when you are ready and as far as you are ready, is communicate each others feelings.

If he has no real feelings or does not want to open up, quit.


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## MyTurn (Oct 27, 2013)

sp77,
I can see how the A is an issue , but I think that you do not want the M .I mean the A is totaly on him, but if you remove the A from the picture, the M was allready in big problem:
<< I admit I have detached from him. He is sleeping in our guest room every night. We act like roommates with kids. His work schedule is opposite mine and the kids, so we hardly see him, except for his days off. I didn't make a big issue about him sleeping in the guest room because I thought the distance may be good for us, temporarily. But instead it seems we've grown more comfortable with our distance.>>
So the question is do you want to stay in this M ? 
Do you love him?
If the answer is No then D.
If its Yes then MC is a must.
As for the A part he said they kissed = PA.
Can you get past that?
If NO then D.
If Yes then, how?
what do you need him to do?
tell him!
Your biggest problem i think is that you both do not talk to each other truthfuly.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> Geez, I sound so angry.


Yes you do.

Understandably. But not just because of his Affair.

I think both of you have ignored each other for a while. This can happen in many relationships.

The key is to know you are angry. Hopefully the counseling will help you find out why.

You have plenty of time to see if you both can fix the marriage. Focus on that.

HM


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

maybe you answered this but you said you checked out and became distant and you enjoyed when he was gone and it was just you and the kids......so why now do you want back in?? is it only because you see him moving on.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Catching cheaters is like catching mice, same principle applies.

Provide the illusion of a safe environment, lure with bait and SNAP!









Hence don't confront him without evidence - you'll only chase the mice away. You already have the bait, just arm the trap where you suspect the two are meeting, or hire PIs.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

UPDATE.....
We started mc about 3 months ago. I'm not sure how much progress we are making of if it's doing any good. I really like the therapist and I think my husband has been able to open up to her, which I think is good. Sometimes he talks so much that it's hard to say what I want to say. I feel sometimes that he paints an inaccurate picture for her though, or he isn't completely honest. Like, maybe he wants to appear as if he does nothing wrong. I brought this up to him last week and he said I was way off.

As far as the AP, she seems to be completely out of the picture. I check his cell phone every few weeks and find nothing. However, because of his job in law enforcement, this is all the snooping I can I really do. 

We still are very distant. We are talking more but I do not feel closer to him. He is still sleeping outside of our bedroom and says it's because his back hurts now when he sleeps in our bed. I don't enjoy being with him much. I find myself tolerating him more than anything. Everything he does is annoying to me, even the way he speaks. I am more comfortable at home when he isn't here. I would almost rather be at work than be home alone with him. The kids are asking about going on a vacation his summer but I dread spending several days with him. 

I'm trying to hang in there because deep down I believe he is a good guy. The PA was short and I feel like I pushed him into it. I can forgive that eventually. But I just can't bring myself to reconnect with him. I feel like I don't even like him! I'm trying the fake it too you make it approach but it isn't working. However, I fear that if we separate or divorce I will eventually come to my senses and realize I made a mistake. 

If I'm being honest, I think this is partly a grass is greener issue for me. I know that I can make it alone but also think that if I were in another relationship in the future I would choose someone with a more compatible personality. I keep thinking that there has to be someone better suited for me. Right now, I'm miserable on a daily basis. I feel stuck. I don't know what I should do next. Should I continue mc? Find and IC? Ask for a separation? Am I a WAW?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

No, you aren't a WAW.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

I should add that he is truly trying to make me happy. Maybe almost too much. He acts very needy at times and it can be such a turn off. I do all the things I've always done, make him breakfast, bring him treats, things he likes if I happen to see them, call him at work during the day. But he says it isn't enough. He doesn't feel loved. 

The MC keeps telling us we need to spend more time together but it's difficult with our schedules. And to be honest, it's not at the top of my list. If I have free time, I want to be alone, read a book, watch tv, things like that. I'm rarely alone and want time to myself so badly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

If you don't take time for yourself you will become a run away wife.

Listen to your needs in this respect.

If his needs are so great that he cannot allow it I am afraid he is too selfish to be your husband. He is a child. 

A man can give his wife room when she needs it.


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

I told him that I want to be alone and he said he could "arrange" for me to spend a weekend with my friend that lives out if town. Arrange!!? That irritated the heck out of me and so I dropped it so I didn't show my anger. I guess I'm finally feeling independent, self sufficient and I don't need him to arrange or allow me to do anything. 

This is another problem, when I try to talk to him about my feelings, he says I am hostile towards him (I don't yell, attack, etc.). He seems to think that if I tell him he's doing something I don't like, I'm being hostile. It makes me hesitant to bring things up because it turns into much more than a discussion. It usually includes him telling me that we are done, he can't take this anymore, he's tried everything etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't think you should be afraid to fight. If he refuses to listen to you because he labels you hostile ask him to think sky how that label allows him to get off the hook and how the fact that you are serious means that his dismissal guarantees you will separate yourself from him.

He is doing classic stuff that absolutely guarantees you will leave.

He dismisses your feelings by classifying them in a way that disrespects you and the legitimacy of the basis of those feelings.

By doing so he gets out of having to examine his behavior and its impact on you. He avoids any truth in what you say.

No adult human being will accept that treatment for long if they have any mental health.

Since you aren't stupid or crazy the only thing his dismissivness will do is piss you off.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

You know thus marriage is doomed, right? I'm not sure why you are sticking around.

Pretend there was no PA for a second...

Your husband is giving you affection now, in the form he only knows how, but now you hate it, and call him needy. Except last year at this time, this is exactly what you wanted to happen.
But is it?
What is it you REALLY want from him? Does he even know? I have a strong suspicion that he has no clue, and you are not telling him, which means you want him to read your mind and just "know" the right things to say and do. Except he doesn't. And the things he's doing isn't working for you....hence, his frustration level is high...and hence, the "I'm done trying so hard" comments.

He knows what he's doing isn't working...but he doesn't have a clue what you actually want. Are you making him jump through hoops to get there?

Also,
The marriage councillor is telling you two to spend more time together, but "that is the last thing on your list". You want to be left alone. You don't want to hug him. You don't want to be near him. He's getting clingy and needy. Etc, etc.

From your reaction, and your description, I can guess two things.
Your love language is acts of service. You still "do things" for him. Like bring him treats and such...

Him. His love language is "idolization". Which is why he's texting you, saying he misses you all the time. Letting you know he's thinking of you.
Have you been intimate with him yet? Do you text him at all during the day? I can also guess, not, based on your previous comments.

So...you want to fix this marriage, but you don't want to actually go through the motions of doing it. How long are you going to keep this up? You do realize that there will come a time when your husband will also reach a point of apathy, after which...all bets are off. It seems like you are standing on that cliff too, teetering back and forth over that apathy abyss.

Apathy is the coffin nail. Only one of you need to get there. 

It's time to roll that hard six, in my opinion. You don't speak each other's love language at all, and no one wants to learn it. Or even make the effort. So, it's time to either call it quits, or finally pick up each other's love language dictionary and start learning how to really communicate.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Now,

Dealing with the PA part of your marriage is another issue, and a big monkey wrench your husband threw into the engine of your marriage repair efforts.

I'll let other, more experienced members give you advise on that issue.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sparrow

You guys need to communicate.
Properly.

Communication can take place in two places.

The marriage counselor's office if you two love each other and want to try to make marriage work.

The lawyers office if you are both done.

The choice is actually yours.

Make the decision.

Make the appointment.

Then take your husband with you to which venue you choose.

The choice is really yours.

HM


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## Sparrow77 (Mar 18, 2013)

CC2- The MC touched briefly on him dismissing my feelings. He has always done this and it results in feeling "wrong" for having those feelings. Last week he told her that I don't think he is capable of handling the kid's activities or childcare arrangements. If he says he will take care of it, he is annoyed when I ask him later about the details. He sees this as me not trusting him to take care of things. But, I ask only so I can be on the same page and for peace of mind that things are taken care of. Knowing this, I feel like he intentionally withholds information from me and just says I'm l taking care if it". 

To me, this says he still doesn't get it. We should be supportive of each other, working as a team. I almost think he enjoys watching me worry. And a partner shouldn't do that. 

Alpha-I am teetering. His love language is sex. I know that's not really a love language but he's pretty much told me that that is what he's missing. Communication wasn't a huge part of our relationship before so he doesn't need that, but unless I'm having sex with him, he doesn't feel loved. 
It's been so many months though, that I can't even imagine it. It would be awkward. 

Happy Man-I do sense that the ball is in my court here. I'm afraid to make a decision because I worry that it will be wrong. That maybe once he's gone I will actually miss him. I mean, how do we love someone for years, share children, good times, bad times and now, I can't stand to be around him! Something must be wrong with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAnotherMan (Jun 27, 2012)

Wow...just wow! 

Divorce him now...it is the best gift you could give him.

Your marriage was poor before the A. He slept in another room. No intimacy. He has an A, which I agree is always wrong, however you also denied him intimacy for long, long periods of time. 

MEN NEED SEX TO FEEL LOVED.

shaking head....I agree with his co workers I would not have stayed with you this long.

I hope in my projecting you can find my advise...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Sparrow,

We're now 7 months past your first post in this thread, and it's obvious you want to be around him even LESS than you did (which wasn't much) when this thread started.

I think you should go back and re-read all of YOUR OWN posts in this thread. Your message comes through loud and clear.

Marriage counseling is obviously not helping, you are sleeping in separate rooms, not having sex, and not meeting any of each other's needs.

I think it's time to pull the plug on this marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sparrow77 said:


> It usually includes him telling me that we are done, he can't take this anymore, he's tried everything etc.


And your response should be "Great! I feel the same way! When are you moving?"

He says it because it controls you. Stop letting him control you.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I don't think it's controlling, here.

I think he's beyond frustration


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Reread the thread. 

The PA was with the former partner? when was it? Can he prove its the only one?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Sparrow77 said:


> CC2- The MC touched briefly on him dismissing my feelings. He has always done this and it results in feeling "wrong" for having those feelings. Last week he told her that I don't think he is capable of handling the kid's activities or childcare arrangements. If he says he will take care of it, he is annoyed when I ask him later about the details. He sees this as me not trusting him to take care of things. But, I ask only so I can be on the same page and for peace of mind that things are taken care of. Knowing this, I feel like he intentionally withholds information from me and just says I'm l taking care if it".
> 
> To me, this says he still doesn't get it. We should be supportive of each other, working as a team. I almost think he enjoys watching me worry. And a partner shouldn't do that.
> 
> ...


No disrespect, but why the hell are you still in this marriage?

It has been made plain as plain can be that you are neither loved, cherished or honored by your husband. At best, you're simply taken for granted- which is also how all this garbage began. In other words, the more things change, the more they just stay the same.

I think you have a far better quality of life ahead of you without him than with.


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## Laurel (Oct 14, 2013)

Since you are asking for opinions, I will give you my honest one. I think it is time for you to move on. I believe reconciliation is possible after infidelity but there has to be something there to save. It seems like the only reason you are with him is the fear of the unknown. When you look at yourself 10 years down the road, do you still want to be in this limbo? 

You state you are most happy when he is gone. Everything he does seems to irritate you. It is time to do both of you a favor and just end it. The only reason you seem to be sticking it out is that you MIGHT miss him when he is gone. That's no reason to stay in a marriage. And in all likelihood, you won't. But if you ever start to miss him or have rose-colored classes towards the past, come back and re-read your posts on this thread to remind yourself of why you made the decision you did. And if you do against all odds miss him and think you made a mistake, who says you can't get back together someday? The fact is, nothing good will come out of the limbo situation you are currently in. 

Take time to focus on yourself and your kids and decide what you really want out of life.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

JustAnotherMan said:


> Wow...just wow!
> 
> Divorce him now...it is the best gift you could give him.
> 
> ...



I totally agree with this. This is not just for Sparrow but any other woman that does this to their husband. If you cut him off, you're basically asking for him to have an A. I'm certain that is not the intended outcome but I'd wager that 7 or 8 times out of 10, that would be the result you'd get and the other 2 or 3 out of 10 wouldn't have succeeded in that area yet but were likely working on it.

Any normal, healthy man is not going to tolerate "no sex" from his wife, nor should he have to. He'll either screw someone else or divorce you or worse yet, screw someone else and then divorce you.


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## Just Joe (May 26, 2014)

Sparrow77 said:


> I told him that I want to be alone and he said he could "arrange" for me to spend a weekend with my friend that lives out if town. Arrange!!? That irritated the heck out of me and so I dropped it so I didn't show my anger. I guess I'm finally feeling independent, self sufficient and I don't need him to arrange or allow me to do anything.
> 
> This is another problem, *when I try to talk to him about my feelings, he says I am hostile towards him* (I don't yell, attack, etc.). He seems to think that if I tell him he's doing something I don't like, I'm being hostile. It makes me hesitant to bring things up because it turns into much more than a discussion. *It usually includes him telling me that we are done, he can't take this anymore, he's tried everything etc.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I sense a lot of hostility in your posts. Is there anything about the affair that is not resolved?


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## Stevenj (Mar 26, 2014)

Mostlycontent said:


> Any normal, healthy man is not going to tolerate "no sex" from his wife, nor should he have to. He'll either screw someone else or divorce you or worse yet, screw someone else and then divorce you.


Do you think this is why HD husbands cheat on LD wives? They just screw someone else?


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