# Help me understand this



## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I have seen many people here say their spouse has been diagnosed with BPD or Bipolar, or some other form of mental illness. I have also seen some people say, their spouse can hold it together on the outside, as in in front of other family members, friends, or coworkers, but then they show their true "mental illness" self to their spouse. Why is that? Why can they "hold it together" on the outside, but let it all come out on the inside with their spouse? If that is the case, wouldn't whatever mental illness they have, mean they have some kind of control over it? If they can control it in front of others, why can they not with their spouse etc?


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

I have often wondered the same thing. My husband is like this. 

When I mentioned to his family what the therapist said he may have (Bipolar with some BPD traits) they were all so shocked! They couldn't believe it! Yes, some of it could have been they were in denial, but I believe they truly had no idea he had these things. Same with when they found out he was an alcoholic. 

They actually told me he never showed any sings of having anything like bipolar etc. while he was growing up, or even now as an adult they never saw any thing like that in him when they are around him. Of course not, he was one way with his family and another way at home. So IMO, it does look as if they have a certain amount of control over things.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

Well, there's more than one factor...

(a) Many of the mentally ill acquired that mental illness from their families - and intimate situations tend to trigger their insanity. Eg, my MIL's habit of beating my wife on her birthdays has not translated into delightful celebrations.

(b) Many of the mentally ill are capable of understanding consequences. Mouth off at your husband - divorce is enough of a PITA that you have some leverage. Mouth off at your boss...not so much. So, whatever self-control they have tends to be focused towards people who are willing to hurt them.

(c) If you're crazy, you can often restrain things for 8 hours...but 24 hours is pretty hard. 

(d) Most spouses of the mentally ill change their behavior in unhealthy ways to avoid conflict - thereby letting their spouse slide further into crazy.

(e) People with personality disorders are often significantly narcissistic - which means that they compensate for really poor self-esteem by building up a perfect false self and defending that false self very strongly. The easiest pattern involves building up a successful public persona - which is incompatible with acting crazy outside the house. Inside the house, of course, all bets are off unless those behaviors are likely to impact their public persona.

(f) Some people build up a public persona that minimizes exposure to their crazy (eg, quiet and shy - only goes out when they're not depressed.). Unfortunately, this doesn't work once you're married.

--Argyle


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks argyle! I guess I just figured the one person who has been there
For him through everything (me) would be the one who didn't get things
taken out on. I sometimes feel I have been the emotional punching bag for anger
and resentment that he may have towards the dysfunctional family who put him
through such chaos! Instead they are the ones who gets treated better and he 
can control his mental illness betters round them than with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks, makes sense. I was reading in another post about BPD and some are saying the same things about being able to hide it better around certain people.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I've struggled with mental issues that stem from childhood neglect and abuse. For me it came down to triggers. I was less likely to be triggered at work because my frame of reference didn't include an office. Therefore I operated as a normal human being while in that environment. 

Once I got home though all bets were off. My husband would ask some innocent question or give me a look and suddenly I'm 8 and he's morphed into my angry dad. I'm hijacked emotionally and have little awareness of my own behavior. All I know is I'm not safe.

I had no control over this until after lots of therapy.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Because they have learned who will tolerate their misbehavior and who won't.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Hey Mavash thanks for your reply to this! 

You mentioned the word "triggered" which made me wonder if this is part of my problem with my husband. I have often wondered if I have said things that "triggered" him to be upset with me, shut down etc etc. The problem is, I'm not sure what those trigger words might be. Sometimes it makes me feel like I can't say anything at all for fear it might trigger something in him. It could be something simple, or something most people would think wouldn't trigger someone to be upset. I think he is very sensitive to things which makes it hard to say much. 

In therapy I have asked if its possible that maybe his actual hurt/anger is from how he feels about his parents and the childhood he had. Of course the counselor has said yes highly possible. So it makes me feel like I'm getting things taken out on me for something others did. But of course when he is around his folks all is well in the world. They could say things to him and have before about just stuff in general, and it be the very same kinds of things I have said, but yet he wasn't "triggered" when they say it, but was triggered by it if I did. :scratchhead: I don't get it!


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Because they have learned who will tolerate their misbehavior and who won't.


I can see this. However I'm the one who over the years has learned to not tolerate certain behaviors, although deep inside they still bother me and leave me wondering why! I have learned to have boundaries etc. when his thought patterns switch from he is ok, to not ok and he starts in with the blame game, and PA behavior. 

His family on the other hand, I have no clue what they will and will not tolerate. According to them they had no clue he had some mental issues, although they were likely the ones to help create them way back when.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

AgentD said:


> Hey Mavash thanks for your reply to this!
> 
> You mentioned the word "triggered" which made me wonder if this is part of my problem with my husband. I have often wondered if I have said things that "triggered" him to be upset with me, shut down etc etc. The problem is, I'm not sure what those trigger words might be.


The ownership of the trigger is on your husband. It's up to him to be aware, to communicate his needs and to manage his own triggers. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells out of fear. My husband is fully aware of my triggers and we've negotiated rules of engagement to manage them.

For example I have separation anxiety so I've respectfully asked that he keep in touch with a simple text every few hours when he's out of town. I've asked him to not leave me when I get hijacked emotionally. I ask for help when I'm overwhelmed. If he says something that bothers me I tell him nicely.

I trigger my husband as well so I too have to be mindful of that. He's not as aware as I am so I've studied him and I watch his body language. I can tell when I've lost him and will ask him. He's worked to discuss his feelings with me so we then can discuss what he needs from me as well. Communication and two willing parties is key.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Because they have learned who will tolerate their misbehavior and who won't.


My husband never tolerated them which is a big reason why I healed.

He tolerates them now because he knows in his heart I'm doing the best I can. I work hard to self regulate so on the days when I struggle he's not so bothered. He supports and helps me.

I wish I were different but it is what it is. Key is I'm nice now and the help I need is a lot less than it used to be.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Mavash, that is true, about how he should have ownership of his own triggers and communicate his needs etc. However, that has yet to happen. 

I have talked with my IC about various things and my marriage. She has mentioned how my husband may need a Psychiatrist and that I need to go as well. She feels I should tell the Psychiatrist what all has gone on over the years and explain my husbands behaviors, then let the Psychiatrist determine whats going on etc. 

In your opinion do you feel its my place to tell the Psychiatrist what has gone on? I see that as my husband not being accountable for his own behavior, as in he should be the one to explain what has gone on. However, my counselor has said she doesn't think that will happen with him. She also said Most people wont go to a Psychiatrist and say, this is what happened in my childhood, this is how I treat my spouse, my moods change frequently etc. So basically its up to me. I guess I just don't see the accountability in that for him. I want him to be helped but shouldn't he want help enough to go and say what he needs to on his own? I feel if I went and told what was going on, even with him there, at some point there would be more resentment from him towards me because of it.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I believe it's up to you to set boundaries for YOU and leave the rest to him. If you do go to counseling stick to what you are not okay with and let the counselor take it.

When I first started it was MC so my husband brought up a few things like my anger and our inability to communicate. The counselor took it from there and I was held accountable.

I tried to blame everything on my husband but she wouldn't let me. LOL


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

AgentD said:


> I sometimes feel I have been the emotional punching bag for anger
> and resentment that he may have towards the dysfunctional family who put him
> through such chaos!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think sometimes this is the case. It sounds like it could be in yours! The anger really lies toward the people that caused the mess to begin with, but the one wanting to help, gets the short end of the crazy stick and gets beat with.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

@AgentD 
...on one hand, many of the mentally ill will lie through their teeth to their therapist and waste years and years of time.
...on the other hand, it isn't healthy to take responsibility for filling in their therapist.

...one possible trick...when he goes into therapy...let your MC suggest an information-sharing agreement with his therapist. Worked for us.

--Argyle


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jamison said:


> I have also seen some people say, their spouse can hold it together on the outside, as in in front of other family members, friends, or coworkers, but then they show their true "mental illness" self to their spouse. Why is that?


Jamison, I agree with Argyle and Mavash that the answer depends on what type of disorder the person has. With BPDers, for example, the answer is that the vast majority of them interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers because NONE of those people pose a threat to their two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. 

Simply stated, there is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. With close family members, however, both of those threats exist. This is why it is common for a BPDer to treat complete strangers with generosity and consideration all day long -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love him.

Hence, the answer to your question "Why can they hold it together at work?" is that, for high functioning BPDers, there is NOTHING that has to be held together. There is no stress or strain because the work colleagues pose no threat to the BPDer's great fears of abandonment and engulfment. As Mavash explains above, those business colleagues are unable to trigger the BPDer's anger because they pose no threat to either of the two fears.

Incidentally, this also explains why BPDers are able to "hold it together" for six months during the courtship. Again, there is nothing for them to hold together. Their infatuation convinces them that the new lover is the perfect person who cannot engulf them and will not abandon them. In this way, infatuation holds their two great fears at bay -- with the result that the new lover never sees any clue that the BPDer has strong BPD traits. All that changes, of course, as soon as the infatuation starts to evaporate.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks Uptown! Quick question. 

Lets say someone has engulfment issues with their mother, and abandonment issues with their father. BUT, they take things out on their spouse, when the spouse hasn't done anything. Everything is directed at the spouse, but when around the people (mother and father ) they have issues with they act a different way. Why? I would think they would take however they are feeling out on the people who caused them the issue to begin with. Misdirected anger maybe?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jamison said:


> I would think they would take however they are feeling out on the people who caused them the issue to begin with. Misdirected anger maybe?


Perhaps. Or it could be that the person still has hopes of being validated and loved by her own parents. We all tend to seek approval from our parents, even when they have been abusive. My experience with BPDers, however, is that they tend to be as hard on their parents as on other family members. Moreover, the people they are the very hardest on is themselves.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Jamison said:


> Thanks Uptown! Quick question.
> 
> Lets say someone has engulfment issues with their mother, and abandonment issues with their father. BUT, they take things out on their spouse, when the spouse hasn't done anything. Everything is directed at the spouse, but when around the people (mother and father ) they have issues with they act a different way. Why? I would think they would take however they are feeling out on the people who caused them the issue to begin with. Misdirected anger maybe?


IMO, it could be to, that the spouse reminds them of their parents or someone who damaged them. Maybe the spouse says or does things that "trigger" them to act that way, even though the spouse may not realize it. Also understand that sometimes there are people who have resentments can treat certain people certain ways, it doesn't mean they have BPD. BUT if that person has that much resentment towards someone then they need some kind of help.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

Limited data...but...when BPDs move in with their parents, the R/S tends to worsen dramatically. When they're separated, the R/S can be quite cordial.

--Argyle


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

They do show it but you have to know where to look. They do not build close relationships with coworkers or bosses, and their superiority complex (see argyle's excellent comments on narcissistic behaviors) ends up backfiring. In some contexts acting aloof or disconnected is actually a positive 

Ultimately they are not likely to be as stable or successful, and may be relegated to less than they're capable of doing. 

I would say BPD's are pretty good in developing coping mechanisms - which is why to the uninitiated they can even appear awesome employees... Extra long hours to hide lack of confidence for example.


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## argyle (May 27, 2011)

...oh...and the darker bit...
...my wife acted out with her younger brother...he apparently beat her to the ground. Problems stopped.
...my wife threw a tantrum with her father...he beat her until she was kneeling in front of him, apologizing. Problems stopped. (Although she was too bruised to go out into public for a while...)
...my wife whined at her mother...et cetera.

...my wife threw a tantrum...Argyle listened to her... My wife threw another, bigger, tantrum later.

--Argyle


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## ShockwaveRider (Jun 21, 2013)

Uptown said:


> Jamison, I agree with Argyle and Mavash that the answer depends on what type of disorder the person has. With BPDers, for example, the answer is that the vast majority of them interact very well with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers because NONE of those people pose a threat to their two great fears: abandonment and engulfment.


I find myself chronically in agreement with uptown.

Sort of odd in and of itself, really. He being "uptown" and me being "hicktown". But to the matter at hand.

My sister has a son (my nephew) who has some manner of bipolar / borderline personality disorder. He was such a nice little boy, but just got stranger amd stranger as the years went by (he's 24 now). I never asked my sister about him until recently, when she "spilled the beans" and stated "she felt it was best if he never left home".

My sister told me that BD/BPD folks tend to "act out the most with the people they are closest to". In her case a mother and a son. In my case, a husband and wife.

People are always "astounded" that my ex-wife was BD/BPD. Of course, these people were never present when she threatened suicide 500 times. Or ran away and checked into a mental hospital without telling anyone (like me, for example).

Imagine what it's like to wake in the night, and the familiar warmth is not next to you in bed. Curious, mildly alarmed (given past behavior) you get up and find the person is not even in the house. That the car is not even in the driveway. Just precisely WTF are you supposed to do? Did the person get a "midnight jones" for a Dove Bar and drive to the grocery store? Or were they led away at knifepoint to be raped in an alleyway? Morning comes and then what do you do? Call the police? Has she been missing 24 hours? Did you have a fight the night before?

It was 15 years of pure.....living.....hell.

And now she's in hospice. What a fitting end.

Shockwave


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