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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

You say that you and your husband grew up together. I would suggest that while _you_ may have grown up, he doesn't seem to have. You've both been unfaithful. He's still being unfaithful. Honestly, you two are something of a train wreck. Get a fair and amicable divorce and learn how to be good co-parents to your daughter. 

If someone ever asks you to choose between them and your own self-respect, you should pick you. Every time. And that's what your husband is doing now. He's asking you to sacrifice your self-respect by waiting around while he continues an emotional affair and/or moves into a physical affair with his current side chick. And he wants to keep you as a backup plan just in case things don't work out with her. 

If you respected yourself to a healthy degree, you'd refuse to make him a priority while he openly treats you like nothing more than a convenient option. Go get a therapist to help you build a healthy level of self-respect. Once you have some self-respect, you won't tolerate being asked to do the "pick me!" dance for your own husband.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

What are the terms of the separation? Are you two “single” and free to explore options? If so there really isn’t a reason to wait around. He probably will see if the grass is greener and pull a Ross (but we were on a break!)

If you can survive that...then I guess wait it out. But he should be willing to move ships to keep you two secure. There’s always a way and what he is doing is selfish.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

You need to ask your husband whether he thinks he is still in love with the girl and if he can be 100% sure that he won't cheat again. Unfortunately, when the trust gets broken, it's impossible to have a normal marriage again. Will you be able to trust your husband ever again?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> He says that he knows that any relationship with that girl would end up very badly, that it wouldn’t lead anywhere and just hurt more people. He likes to rationalize everything. I didn’t mention this and realize it’s an important factor, but *he’s never been in any other relationship*. I was his first, and only (that I know of) love, relationship, everything. I think the fact that *he’s never been with anyone else* actually ends up hurting us. Because he hasn’t gone out there and probably wonders whether the “grass is greener” on the other side.


Apart from the relationship he had with the woman he cheated with?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Tell her husband.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Hello everyone, I just joined this group out of pure desperation.
> 
> My husband and I just separated and I'm honestly feeling very lost. To give some background information, we have been together for 13 years and have an 8-year-old daughter. We met junior year in high school and began dating senior year. We have made every mistake in the book, especially during those initial years when we were young and stupid. We are now 31, and 30, and after so many ups and downs I thought we had it all figured out. My husband is in the military, I am a nurse, we are lucky enough to currently be stationed in my hometown where all my family is. Four years ago my husband found out about an affair I had. I had ended things several months before he found out, which I think is the only reason he didn't straight up leave me. He ended up confessing that he had also cheated on me, about 6 years earlier, with a woman from work (Someone higher rank). The cheating at that time was purely physical, oral sex from this woman who had like 4 kids and a ****ed up relationship with the kids' father. Oh, and not just one blowjob, but two, a year later. And according to him he felt so guilty he couldn't "finish". Anyway, so we both find out about each other's infidelities, but we decided we want to keep trying, that we loved each other. We made all the promises, we made rules and set boundaries, we did counseling. I thought we were doing good. My husband always said that the only reason he would leave me is if I cheated again. I'm the one who sometimes has doubts about our marriage and have to be talked off a ledge by him when I'm freaking out. He's always been there, he has never given up on me.
> 
> ...


A. Why would this girl marry her boyfriend's best friend? Who does that?
B. Why hasn't your husband left that boat?
C. See what happens when he comes back in 3 weeks. If he is still acting weird, you'll need to call the shots and leave. Spending the time on the boat with her won't fare well for YOUR relationship.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> *He says that he knows that any relationship with that girl would end up very badly, that it wouldn’t lead anywhere and just hurt more people. *He likes to rationalize everything. I didn’t mention this and realize it’s an important factor, but he’s never been in any other relationship. I was his first, and only (that I know of) love, relationship, everything. I think the fact that he’s never been with anyone else actually ends up hurting us. Because he hasn’t gone out there and probably wonders whether the “grass is greener” on the other side.



And yet, here he is, breaking up his marriage over her.... 

That really should tell you something about how much he values you and your marriage. He's willing to blow it all up to chase something he knows would be a flaming dumpster fire. 

Maybe you should think about that for a while. Because if that doesn't enrage you, then you really, _really_, *really*, do need to see a therapist to work on your self-respect.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

By the way, OP, I divorced my first husband - a serial cheater, as yours seems to be shaping up to be - after we'd been together for 21 years. We started dating when I was 15. I'd never had a relationship with, had sex with, or even kissed, another man. When I divorced him I was 36. At 38 I had my very first - ever - real date. I'd never even gone out on a date with a man I wasn't already in a relationship with. 

Was it scary? Yes, it was. But it was also worth it. 

More worth it by far, though, was the healing and self-esteem and maturity and growth that had come from the 2 years of being independent between my divorce and that first date. The understanding of healthy boundaries, the self-awareness, the knowledge that I absolutely did NOT _need_ a man in my life, but that I'd like to find a man to enhance what I'd already built into a great life for myself. 

There was power in that. There was the ability to know what I really wanted from my life, and what I absolutely didn't want. There was strength to enjoy dating but not accept things I wasn't happy with from the men I dated. There was the knowledge that I could, and should and _would_, wait for someone who was not perfect but was a perfect fit for me. And that I would be just fine alone unless and until I met the right guy who wanted what I did and wanted to build that together with me.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Good point. I meant a committed relationship though, not an affair.


still... falling in love with a 21 year old girl now? I don't know...


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You say he rationalizes everything.

That sounds more like you. 

He emotionalizes everything.
A less effective means of coping and thinking.

He is in that fog we all hear of.

He wants out. From stress.
Stress from work and from marriage.

This cheating is a form of escapism. 

His losing weight, is he on uppers? 
Or, some form of illict drugs?

Anxiety and depression could account for his aberrant behavior.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Oh, and when I've been emotional and told him I was going to talk to the captain so either one of them would get moved, he said and i quote "I'm worried about what she might do if she gets moved now that she's finally feeling like part of the crew."


Hahahaha! He's psycho. He doesn't care about you at all. These are all lame selfish reasons and excuses. He has no intention of working it out.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He’s far more concerned about her than he is about you.

She may or may not be getting divorced/already divorced.

He has a lot more time now to do as he pleases.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> You say he rationalizes everything.
> 
> That sounds more like you.
> 
> ...



Maybe it seems like it but this so out of character for him. I'm the emotional one in the relationship. It does feel like the roles have flipped during all this. 

No, he's not on drugs or ever has been. I know he lost those 30 pounds because he was "falling" for someone else while also dealing with the guilt and anxiety of what he was doing behind my back.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> ...
> *But it just hurts so much that I have to beg someone to CHOOSE ME* over anyone else and everything else. That kills me. I tell myself all the time that if I have to beg him to pick me then I should just divorce him.


You don't _have_ to. You're choosing to. Doing the pick-me dance is your choice. So if you don't like doing it, you should stop.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Hahahaha! He's psycho. He doesn't care about you at all. *These are all lame selfish reasons and excuses. He has no intention of working it out.*


I feel that way too. I just don't know what to do. File for divorce while he's gone for the 3 weeks? Wait until he comes back and see how he feels? Give it some more time, months, and see how we both feel after?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> He’s far more concerned about her than he is about you.
> 
> She may or may not be getting divorced/already divorced.
> 
> He has a lot more time now to do as he pleases.


I told him that if he even speaks to this girl again and I find out, I will not hesitate to go on that ship and talk to his captain and make sure one or both of them get kicked out. He said that was fair and that he had no intention of that happening. I told him he had no intention of cheating in the first place and look where we are now. 

I don't want to ruin his life and career because he's still my daughter's father and I do care about his wellbeing. I tell myself that doing that is just petty and won't help anyone in the longrun.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Rowan said:


> You don't _have_ to. You're choosing to. Doing the pick-me dance is your choice. So if you don't like doing it, you should stop.


What would you do in my shoes? Run to a lawyer and file for divorce?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

There’s nothing easy about ending a marriage. And there are always “reasons” (i.e. excuses) to stay. I know. I used all of them for decades. 

You have no idea what he’s doing with his time these days. He may be reflecting on his marriage and he may not be. If you take him back, he needs to get an STD panel done.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I feel that way too. I just don't know what to do. File for divorce while he's gone for the 3 weeks? Wait until he comes back and see how he feels? Give it some more time, months, and see how we both feel after?


I'd say give it a fair chance, give it the 3 weeks. This way you can say you tried it all, and have no regrets.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What’s happening now is open season for whatever he wants to do. He may or may not be seeing the girl. He may or may not be seeing someone else. Either divorce or reconcile but don’t separate — especially checking in once a month. That’s asking for trouble. Sure, you can sit around for another month or three or six while he “thinks” about all this but in the meantime you have no idea what he’s really doing. Separations are very often used as an excuse to see other people. That’s why I never recommend them. Put an end to that.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> I'd say give it a fair chance, give it the 3 weeks. This way you can say you tried it all, and have no regrets.


Is 3 weeks long enough for both of us to heal? I feel like we both need more time apart than that.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> What’s happening now is open season for whatever he wants to do. He may or may not be seeing the girl. He may or may not be seeing someone else. Either divorce or reconcile but don’t separate — especially checking in once a month. That’s asking for trouble. Sure, you can sit around for another month or three or six while he “thinks” about all this but in the meantime you have no idea what he’s really doing. Separations are very often used as an excuse to see other people. That’s why I never recommend them. Put an end to that.


I literally have to fight the urge to say "He wouldn't do that" or "He's not that type of man", but he's already proven that he IS that type of man and he HAS done that. I don't know how to reconcile the person I think of him as with the things he's done and continues to do.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You’re not going to heal apart. Separating just postpones the work you have to do to reconcile.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Is 3 weeks long enough for both of us to heal? I feel like we both need more time apart than that.


I personally don't think separation does ANY good, if I have to be honest. Especially that he has a distraction with him a lot. There really isn't anything to heal from. Let 3 weeks be your trial. Do not tell him this. When he comes home, feel him out, and then you'll know what the next step should be. 

I'm wondering, how is his contact with you right now? Calling every day a few times a day or what?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> You’re not going to heal apart. Separating just postpones the work you have to do to reconcile.


Is your advice is to just go ahead and file for divorce now?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> I personally don't think separation does ANY good, if I have to be honest. Especially that he has a distraction with him a lot. There really isn't anything to heal from. Let 3 weeks be your trial. Do not tell him this. When he comes home, feel him out, and then you'll know what the next step should be.
> 
> I'm wondering, how is his contact with you right now? Calling every day a few times a day or what?


We're not speaking at all unless it involves our daughter. That was one of the rules we set for the separation.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I literally have to fight the urge to say "He wouldn't do that" or "He's not that type of man", but he's already proven that he IS that type of man and he HAS done that. I don't know how to reconcile the person I think of him as with the things he's done and continues to do.


Yeah, I know. I was married for a very long time. We met when we were 18. He was the least likely person on the planet to cheat and yet he was a serial cheater. I made excuses for decades to stay because it was so hard to reconcile who I thought he was with the person he really was. You never know someone nearly as well as you think.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> We're not speaking at all unless it involves our daughter. That was one of the rules we set for the separation.


Oh ok, I missed that part. Why on earth would you both agree to that?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, only you can decide when/if you've had enough. And deciding to divorce is not something I think anyone should do lightly. But you should understand that it's exceptionally rare for a separation to do anything positive for healing a marriage. Mostly, separations just allow the cheating partner to cheat more easily and with less guilt. If you want to fix a marriage, you have to do that work _together_, not apart. 

Personally, my tolerance for flagrant disrespect is very low. My ex-husband used up all the grace I might ever have been able to muster for anyone who might think to treat me like a backup plan. So, knowing and intentional disrespect is a hard boundary - a deal-breaker, if you will - for me. It's just something I won't tolerate from a partner.

You need to figure out if it's a deal-breaker for you. If it is, then you'll need to file for divorce. It need not be a contentious drama-fest, so keep it as amicable and fair as you can and figure out how to co-parent well.

But if it's not a deal-breaker for you, that's okay too. That's your choice. Get him fully STD tested when he eventually wanders back to your marriage. Then figure out how to be content with what he's capable of offering and the relationship you have. But do understand that this option is something you're actively _choosing_. It's not something that's being forced on you. Which means you'll need to figure out a way to stop pain-shopping and accept your marriage as it is without worrying yourself over his wanderings.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Oh ok, I missed that part. Why on earth would you both agree to that?


Just because I feel like talking all the time will make things more confusing. I feel like not having any contact gives us a better chance to think about what we really want and how to move forward. It's hard to think clearly when you stay in touch with someone, it makes it harder to be strong.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Is your advice is to just go ahead and file for divorce now?


It isn’t what I did but it’s what I should have done. Divorce petitions can always be cancelled but they are sometimes a good wake-up call. I waited and my husband didn’t believe I was serious. When I finally filed, he was all for working things out but at that point it was too late for me.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Yeah, I know. I was married for a very long time. We met when we were 18. He was the least likely person on the planet to cheat and yet he was a serial cheater. I made excuses for decades to stay because it was so hard to reconcile who I thought he was with the person he really was. You never know someone nearly as well as you think.


That's how I feel right now. I keep asking myself "Who is this man?" "Why would he do this to me?" "HOW could he do this to me??" After all the time and effort and promises and hard ****ing work, how can he just throw it all away because of someone it would never work out with??


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Just because I feel like talking all the time will make things more confusing. I feel like not having any contact gives us a better chance to think about what we really want and how to move forward. It's hard to think clearly when you stay in touch with someone, it makes it harder to be strong.


You just postpone the inevitable when you separate because sooner or later you’ll have to do the work of reconciliation (if you choose that). Right now you’re in limbo and nothing that’s productive is being done. You’re waiting and he’s doing whatever.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Just because I feel like talking all the time will make things more confusing. I feel like not having any contact gives us a better chance to think about what we really want and how to move forward. It's hard to think clearly when you stay in touch with someone, it makes it harder to be strong.


Ok, so be it then. See how that works out in 3 weeks.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Rowan said:


> OP, only you can decide when/if you've had enough. And deciding to divorce is not something I think anyone should do lightly. But you should understand that it's exceptionally rare for a separation to do anything positive for healing a marriage. Mostly, separations just allow the cheating partner to cheat more easily and with less guilt. If you want to fix a marriage, you have to do that work _together_, not apart.
> 
> Personally, my tolerance for flagrant disrespect is very low. My ex-husband used up all the grace I might ever have been able to muster for anyone who might think to treat me like a backup plan. So, knowing and intentional disrespect is a hard boundary - a deal-breaker, if you will - for me. It's just something I won't tolerate from a partner.
> 
> ...



You know, I keep thinking of our entire marriage and how I always have felt like I had to beg him to love me. It's been the same song and dance for years. I try and aI try and we talk and I tell him what I need from him, that I need him to be more affectionate, and he'll do it for a while and then go back to "ignoring me". I always told him that being married to him was like having a wall as a husband. Someone who would only kiss me when he wanted to **** me. Someone who gets lost in his own world, playing video games or being on his phone all the time and neglecting me. We have good times where laugh and joke around all the time, but he gets in these moods, we call it "auto-pilot mode" that he doesn't feel like talking or bonding or anything. And I've learned to deal with it and accept that that's how he is. He's an AMAZING father, and he's very good when it comes to being helpful (cooking, cleaning, etc.). But I've always felt like our romantic life was lacking. Like he doesn't put in the effort to keep our romantic life alive. Until I have some breakdown, and say it's not working out and cry and get angry and say all those things to hi and he has to "talk me off a ledge" and "rationalizes" everything. Saying that compared to other couples, we have no problems. That our issues are small. That we have great communication and other people don't have that. And we do have good communication, when we actually sit down to talk. We never yell at each other or call each other names or anything. Usually when we're mad at each other and argue we just give each other the cold shoulder until one of us starts talking to the other like nothing happened.

I was so ready to have another baby, so our daughter can have a sibling. That's another thing that's killing me. I'm ****ing 30 already I don't have time to wait to find someone else. That could take YEARS. I don't want our daughter to be alone. He ****ing ruined EVERYTHING. I'm so angry!


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> It isn’t what I did but it’s what I should have done. Divorce petitions can always be cancelled but they are sometimes a good wake-up call. I waited and my husband didn’t believe I was serious. When I finally filed, he was all for working things out but at that point it was too late for me.


I know I'm a fool but I just keep hoping that our story will be different. That we will find our way back to each other. I have an internal battle between wanting to move on and holding on to that small hope.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> That's how I feel right now. I keep asking myself "Who is this man?" "Why would he do this to me?" "HOW could he do this to me??" After all the time and effort and promises and hard ****ing work, how can he just throw it all away because of someone it would never work out with??


Because he’s not thinking with the correct head. The girl is young and needy and looks up to him and his “wisdom”. He gets to be her KISA. He’s a hero. Some men really need that. It rarely ends well for anyone involved. 

My husband was very much a KISA — for other women. I wasn’t needy and apparently he liked women who were. For my husband, it may not have always started out as an affair but it usually ended up as one. He just couldn’t resist those admiring, needy women. 

By separating, you’ve given your husband a blank check. He may or may not cash it but if he does you aren’t likely to know. I thought my husband was the most honest person ever until I learned otherwise. It’s not wise to be so trusting.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> You just postpone the inevitable when you separate because sooner or later you’ll have to do the work of reconciliation (if you choose that). Right now you’re in limbo and nothing that’s productive is being done. You’re waiting and he’s doing whatever.


Maybe for now all I can do is wait the 3 weeks until he comes back like another person here advised. If he wants to work on our marriage (together) then we can see where that goes, if he's still unsure then I'll just have to go ahead and file for divorce. I think that's the best route right now. Like you said, I can't just hang in limbo indefinitely while he's out there doing who knows what.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Because he’s not thinking with the correct head. The girl is young and needy and looks up to him and his “wisdom”. He gets to be her KISA. He’s a hero. Some men really need that. It rarely ends well for anyone involved.
> 
> My husband was very much a KISA — for other women. I wasn’t needy and apparently he liked women who were. For my husband, it may not have always started out as an affair but it usually ended up as one. He just couldn’t resist those admiring, needy women.
> 
> By separating, you’ve given your husband a blank check. He may or may not cash it but if he does you aren’t likely to know. I thought my husband was the most honest person ever until I learned otherwise. It’s not wise to be so trusting.


You are absolutely right. I wish I could fast-forward to the time when I'm finally not feeling so weak. That's what this is, weakness and fear. Nothing is scarier than not knowing what's going to happen, if I'm choosing correctly, if I'll regret my decisions.
I also realize that he obviously didn't give two flying ****s about me or my feelings or even how this would affect our daughter when he chose not to be faithful.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I know I'm a fool but I just keep hoping that our story will be different. That we will find our way back to each other. I have an internal battle between wanting to move on and holding on to that small hope.


I know all about hopium (it really is like a drug) and the battle between heart and brain. I was a little older than you the first time I realized my husband was cheating. We reconciled but when it happened again I divorced him. I’ll never know how many women there really were because he was usually careful.

If you want to work on your marriage, your husband needs to be there with you and involved in the process. Right now, he’s doing whatever but he’s not working on your marriage. He either cares enough to put in the time and energy and effort or he doesn’t.

If he’s having to spend so much time thinking about it, the odds are that he’s trying her out to see if she’s what he wants. He knows you’re there waiting so why not. My guess is that she won’t be what he wants long-term and then he’ll want to reconcile. And you’ll never know what he’s done.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

At the end of the day, you have to do what’s best for you. I know you want to reconcile but he needs to want it as much as you do. Right now, it appears he has the freedom to do whatever he chooses instead of being at home and actually working on his marriage instead of talking about what he might do.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Ok, so be it then. See how that works out in 3 weeks.


Thank you so much for your advice and honesty.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Thank you so much for your advice and honesty.


You're welcome. Just stay calm, and let us know how it turns out. When is he expected home?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> I know all about hopium (it really is like a drug) and the battle between heart and brain. I was a little older than you the first time I realized my husband was cheating. We reconciled but when it happened again I divorced him. I’ll never know how many women there really were because he was usually careful.
> 
> If you want to work on your marriage, your husband needs to be there with you and involved in the process. Right now, he’s doing whatever but he’s not working on your marriage. He either cares enough to put in the time and energy and effort or he doesn’t.
> 
> *If he’s having to spend so much time thinking about it, the odds are that he’s trying her out to see if she’s what he wants. He knows you’re there waiting so why not. My guess is that she won’t be what he wants long-term and then he’ll want to reconcile. And you’ll never know what he’s done.*


That's exactly how I feel, but he swears it has nothing to do with her and that "that" isn't even a possibility. He could be telling the truth, or he could be lying. I'll never know.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> That's exactly how I feel, but he swears it has nothing to do with her and that "that" isn't even a possibility. He could be telling the truth, or he could be lying. I'll never know.


Of course it has to do with her. This is known as affair fog.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> You're welcome. Just stay calm, and let us know how it turns out. When is he expected home?


I will try my best, thank you. He should be back during the second week of April. I will definitely keep you all updated.

I made an appointment for tomorrow to meet with a divorce lawyer. I want to talk to someone so I can have an idea of what my options are and what a divorce is going to look when he's still in the military.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Of course it has to do with her. This is known as affair fog.


Does the affair fog go away eventually? Is he going to realize he's a complete moron eventually for throwing our marriage away? I hope so. Not necessarily because I'm hoping he'll want to be with me again. My petty side just wants to see him realize his mistakes and that it will be too late. Again, my petty, prideful side.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Does the affair fog go away eventually? Is he going to realize he's a complete moron eventually for throwing our marriage away? I hope so. Not necessarily because I'm hoping he'll want to be with me again. My petty side just wants to see him realize his mistakes and that it will be too late. Again, my petty, prideful side.


It depends on the person, I think. But it doesn't become your problem anymore. You'll be long gone and he'll be left to deal with the consequences. So what?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> It depends on the person, I think. But it doesn't become your problem anymore. You'll be long gone and he'll be left to deal with the consequences. So what?


That's where I want to be. In the "So what?" state of mind.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> That's exactly how I feel, but he swears it has nothing to do with her and that "that" isn't even a possibility. He could be telling the truth, or he could be lying. I'll never know.


My husband swore that he was just friends over the years with the people who reported to him. And that was probably true for some of the women. But certainly not for others. Now that I’m long removed from all of that, I see the red flags I overlooked or ignored at the time. He never admitted to more than I could prove and even then he tried to spin it. My guess is there was much more that I never found out about. The truth can be difficult — or impossible — to find in these situations.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> That's where I want to be. In the "So what?" state of mind.


You can be. Wait til he comes home. If he's still in la la land, then you go back to the lawyer and file. You may not be able to process it at first, but at the end of the day, you guys reconciled after your affair, he shouldn't be off cheating too, not at this point. Over a youngin' to boot. You deserve peace of mind now.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> My husband swore that he was just friends over the years with the people who reported to him. And that was probably true for some of the women. But certainly not for others. Now that I’m long removed from all of that, I see the red flags I overlooked or ignored at the time. He never admitted to more than I could prove and even then he tried to spin it. My guess is there was much more that I never found out about. The truth can be difficult — or impossible — to find in these situations.


Oh how could I forget? He tried to spin it too! When he first came back he told me about how much she was struggling with her ex's suicide and her divorce and straight up said that he had talked to her to check on her and that he had told her that if she ever felt like she was in a dark place she could call him and that WE would pick her up and she could crash on OUR couch and we'd make PANCAKES in the morning. To show her the "family side" and how drinking and having sex is not all there is to life and coping. I felt so bad for her and told him that I was glad he was helping her and that he did the right thing.

He later admitted to me that he was trying to spin it in a way that he could stay "friends" with her.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

You know I'm sitting here and the more I think about everything he did and what he's doing even now, how he's not choosing me, it makes me so angry I just want to say **** it and file for divorce and not even wait the 3 weeks. I know I deserve SO MUCH BETTER!


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> You know I'm sitting here and the more I think about everything he did and what he's doing even now, how he's not choosing me, it makes me so angry I just want to say **** it and file for divorce and not even wait the 3 weeks. I know I deserve SO MUCH BETTER!


Don't do anything rash just yet. Wait the 3 weeks, and then decide.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Don't do anything rash just yet. Wait the 3 weeks, and then decide.


 Yes, I know that's the smart, prudent thing to do. I'm trying to keep my emotions in check and not act out when I feel hurt and angry.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Of course it has to do with her. This is known as affair fog.


Can the affair fog even go away while he's still having to be around her every day? I feel like unless he removes himself from her presence he will not "snap out of it."


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> You know I'm sitting here and the more I think about everything he did and what he's doing even now, how he's not choosing me, it makes me so angry I just want to say **** it and file for divorce and not even wait the 3 weeks. I know I deserve SO MUCH BETTER!


You could definitely have a better relationship with someone else. From a previous post, it sounds like he hasn't been a great marriage partner to you for a long time.

In case it helps if you are second guessing yourself: I personally would not stay in a marriage in which my husband was so taken with another woman, to this point. That's me. You may feel differently.

I divorced after a 16 year marriage and with elementary school aged children because I would not have been able to spend the rest of my life with a man who wasn't a connected partner to me.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Can the affair fog even go away while he's still having to be around her every day? I feel like unless he removes himself from her presence he will not "snap out of it."


I'm not sure. But I think if he wants to save the marriage, he would have to stop working with her. Based on what you have said, he doesn't seem to be cooperating with you on that important point. That's why I say, wait for him to come home. If he is not over it and he's not willing to make necessary changes, then it's time for you to make important decisions.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Livvie said:


> You could definitely have a better relationship with someone else. From a previous post, it sounds like he hasn't been a great marriage partner to you for a long time.
> 
> In case it helps if you are second guessing yourself: I personally would not stay in a marriage in which my husband was so taken with another woman, to this point. That's me. You may feel differently.
> 
> I divorced after a 16 year marriage and with elementary school aged children because I would not have been able to spend the rest of my life with a man who wasn't a connected partner to me.


You are right. And I know that is all true. It's so frustrating how I can KNOW that I deserve better and that I should leave him but I'm paralyzed by fear and indecision.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> I'm not sure. But I think if he wants to save the marriage, he would have to stop working with her. Based on what you have said, he doesn't seem to be cooperating with you on that important point. That's why I say, wait for him to come home. If he is not over it and he's not willing to make necessary changes, then it's time for you to make important decisions.


You're absolutely correct. I gave him that choice before and he said he didn't appreciate me giving him "ultimatums" but that's how it's going to have to be. He either wants to save our marriage and will do ANYTHING to make it happen, including leaving the boat, or it’s over and I file for divorce.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> You're absolutely correct. I gave him that choice before and he said he didn't appreciate me giving him "ultimatums" but that's how it's going to have to be. He either wants to save our marriage and will do ANYTHING to make it happen, including leaving the boat, or it’s over and I file for divorce.


Well, it's the only right way to solve the problem....if that's what he really wants to do. He's clearly not mature enough to respect boundaries, he keeps crossing them. He can't handle working alongside her, clearly.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Can the affair fog even go away while he's still having to be around her every day? I feel like unless he removes himself from her presence he will not "snap out of it."


No.

Physical distance from her is what’s needed.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> You are absolutely right. I wish I could fast-forward to the time when I'm finally not feeling so weak. That's what this is, weakness and fear. Nothing is scarier than not knowing what's going to happen, if I'm choosing correctly, if I'll regret my decisions.
> I also realize that he obviously didn't give two flying ****s about me or my feelings or even how this would affect our daughter when he chose not to be faithful.


No one knows which decisions they will regret. It's part of adult life. You make choices and time will tell.

I think a LARGE part of this is that he is all you've ever known as an adult. You have never had a relationship, loved, broken up, healed, moved on, and loved again so you don't know that you can. I also think this is a LARGE part of the reason he has stayed with you when he clearly wants to experience other women. You're all he's known as an adult, so he wants to keep the security of you while experiencing others on the side.



ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> That's exactly how I feel, but he swears it has nothing to do with her and that "that" isn't even a possibility. He could be telling the truth, or he could be lying. I'll never know.


He's a liar, sweetie. If you actually think he hasn't screwed her you're delusional. And the other affair was more than blowjobs, too. This isn't some high school sweetheart ********. Adults ****. 



ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Does the affair fog go away eventually? Is he going to realize he's a complete moron eventually for throwing our marriage away? I hope so. Not necessarily because I'm hoping he'll want to be with me again. My petty side just wants to see him realize his mistakes and that it will be too late. Again, my petty, prideful side.


He'll tell you anything he thinks you want to hear and use every manipulation he can think of to keep you as his Plan B security blanket. 

Does "affair fog" go away? Yes. When the affair looses it's shine or ends. And then it reappears for the next one. 



ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> He later admitted to me that he was trying to spin it in a way that he could stay "friends" with her.


Of course he was! If she's a "family friend" he gets to have her in his home, see her interact with his kid, and have access to her so they can have sex. It's a great set-up. Trust me. I had that set-up once when I was married to my exH and having an affair with a "family friend".



ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Can the affair fog even go away while he's still having to be around her every day? I feel like unless he removes himself from her presence he will not "snap out of it."


It could if their relationship sours. It could also go the other way where he falls in deeper because they spend so much time together working and during their hours of free time, rest, etc.

Thing is, even if he removes himself from her presence and the "fog" dissipates there will always be another woman and another fog about to roll in. How do you know? Because it's already happened at least twice that you know of. As long as you stay he knows he can get away with it. I mean, he's already done it at least two times and you're still there. The next few he probably won't even feel guilty about. Why would he? You know he's a serial cheater and you stayed, so you must actually be ok with it despite your protestations. Just like he's ok with cheating despite his protestations.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Well, it's the only right way to solve the problem....if that's what he really wants to do. He's clearly not mature enough to respect boundaries, he keeps crossing them. He can't handle working alongside her, clearly.


Yes, it's true. Like another person said, maybe he keeps doing this stuff because he's never been in another serious relationship and he's just going to keep doing this to me because I keep forgiving him and allowing it.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

MJJEAN said:


> No one knows which decisions they will regret. It's part of adult life. You make choices and time will tell.
> 
> I think a LARGE part of this is that he is all you've ever known as an adult. You have never had a relationship, loved, broken up, healed, moved on, and loved again so you don't know that you can. I also think this is a LARGE part of the reason he has stayed with you when he clearly wants to experience other women. You're all he's known as an adult, so he wants to keep the security of you while experiencing others on the side.
> 
> ...



I appreciate all your responses, even if it hurts to think about the points you've made. And I do realize that a big part of this is that neither one of us has known anything else as adults. Do you believe there is any way to save our marriage? Anything that could be done? Or is divorce the only answer here?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I appreciate all your responses, even if it hurts to think about the points you've made. And I do realize that a big part of this is that neither one of us has known anything else as adults. Do you believe there is any way to save our marriage? Anything that could be done? Or is divorce the only answer here?


I think the only one who can decide that is you and your husband. You don't know yet.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Is there any hope to ever be happy with someone??? I feel so disappointed from reading everyone's stories on here. Like being hurt and cheated on is inevitable no matter who you're with. Are there any actual happy endings?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Is there any hope to ever be happy with someone??? I feel so disappointed from reading everyone's stories on here. Like being hurt and cheated on is inevitable no matter who you're with. Are there any actual happy endings?


That's not true. My husband is a good husband, he's never cheated on me. We have other issues, but it's not that him and I don't get along. It's very possible to be happy, but you'll have to grow before you can have that. You have to learn how to set boundaries. I'm not sure you or your husband ever learned how to.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Can the affair fog even go away while he's still having to be around her every day? I feel like unless he removes himself from her presence he will not "snap out of it."


nope. As long as his emotions are being fed by her, it won’t go away.

The marriage might be saved, but After two affairs on his part and one on yours..... both of you are cheaters. It will likely happen again and who would anyone bet on to cheat next? You will feel entitled to it now. He will justify his affairs in his mind too. 

there’s no hard answer on what to do here. The 21 yr old—- that’s a dead end for sure. She’s a psycho drama queen that latches in to whoever will give her attention most likely. She would likely be a textbook cheater. He will surely get some affair karma from her if he continues with this stupidity.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> That's not true. My husband is a good husband, he's never cheated on me. We have other issues, but it's not that him and I don't get along. It's very possible to be happy, but you'll have to grow before you can have that. You have to learn how to set boundaries. I'm not sure you or your husband ever learned how to.


We've set boundaries, and made rules. He just didn't respect them, clearly.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> nope. As long as his emotions are being fed by her, it won’t go away.


And if he removes himself from her? Does it matter? Like someone else said, there will be another "fog" around the corner.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> We've set boundaries, and made rules. He just didn't respect them, clearly.


Right, but you also haven't enforced yours. So there are still issues on both ends.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Right, but you also haven't enforced yours. So there are still issues on both ends.


How can I enforce them? I mean this all came out of nowhere, I THOUGHT we were both following our rules and respecting the boundaries we set. We were fine, he left for 3 weeks and came back "loving" someone else. I was knocked sideways. Completely blindsided.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> How can I enforce them? I mean this all came out of nowhere, I THOUGHT we were both following our rules and respecting the boundaries we set. We were fine, he left for 3 weeks and came back "loving" someone else. I was knocked sideways. Completely blindsided.


Well, when he comes home, that will be your test. Will you enforce the expectation you have?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> And if he removes himself from her? Does it matter? Like someone else said, there will be another "fog" around the corner.


There is no way to go forward with trying to repair the marriage as long as he’s alone with her on the boat.
Will he grow up and stop “falling in love” with other women? Who knows?
I don’t know if it’s accurate to say “cheaters will cheat.” Serial cheaters? Honestly, I think there’s some truth to the serial cheater thing. You cheated. What are your thoughts? Do you think you have changed? Do you think he can? I just don’t know.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> There is no way to go forward with trying to repair the marriage as long as he’s alone with her on the boat.
> Will he grow up and stop “falling in love” with other women? Who knows?
> I don’t know if it’s accurate to say “cheaters will cheat.” Serial cheaters? Honestly, I think there’s some truth to the serial cheater thing. You cheated. What are your thoughts? Do you think you have changed? Do you think he can? I just don’t know.


I think I've changed. I remember what it felt like to be so close to losing him because of an affair and I decided I never wanted to feel like that again. We both agreed we didn't want to do that again. But here we are, almost 4 years later. He's questioning whether he even loves me because he did this again, and so am I.

And yes I agree, there is now way to fix this as long as she's there. His excuse for not leaving is that supposedly she's going to be leaving to some school soon anyway and won't be back. But that could take months. And I don't want to wait around for months until she leaves permanently and he "realizes" he wants to make it work with me.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Well, when he comes home, that will be your test. Will you enforce the expectation you have?


My expectation of him moving heaven and earth to make our marriage work?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> My expectation of him moving heaven and earth to make our marriage work?


Yeah. He needs to change jobs. That's the bottom line. Then he needs to figure out why he did this.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Yeah. He needs to change jobs. That's the bottom line. Then he needs to figure out why he did this.


I forgot to mention before but another reason that he doesn't want to leave the ship is because she's supposedly leaving to some school and won't be back. But that could take months, and like I told another person here, it will kill me if I have to sit around waiting for her to leave and then waiting for him to decide he really wants to be with me.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I forgot to mention before but another reason that he doesn't want to leave the ship is because she's supposedly leaving to some school and won't be back. But that could take months, and like I told another person here, it will kill me if I have to sit around waiting for her to leave and then waiting for him to decide he really wants to be with me.


Ohh ok. Yeah that's a tough call to make.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Ohh ok. Yeah that's a tough call to make.


Exactly. I have no idea what the right thing to do is.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Exactly. I have no idea what the right thing to do is.


Wouldn't she be in school now?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Wouldn't she be in school now?


They have to put their name on a list and then depending on how quickly the list moves she’ll be given orders. As of right now she’s still on the ship. But she will have to leave. It could be weeks or it could be some months.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> They have to put their name on a list and then depending on how quickly the list moves she’ll be given orders. As of right now she’s still on the ship. But she will have to leave. It could be weeks or it could be some months.


Yeah, that wouldn't be ok to deal with that for weeks or months. He should take himself out of the equation. Period.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Yeah, that wouldn't be ok to deal with that for weeks or months. He should take himself out of the equation. Period.


Well as of right now he hasn't or is afraid to. So, in 3 weeks we shall see what he decides. If he comes back and he's still doing the same dance I will have to go through and file for divorce.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I wouldn't say with someone who needed to "decide" how he felt about someone else. But that's me!

Having been emotionally betrayed previously (it wasn't cheating, though) that led to my divorce, I have no tolerance for that stuff. 

Yes, there are men who upon feeling something for a 21 year old **** up would pull their head out of their ass and distance themselves from that person as soon as possible and wouldn't dawdle around with his "feelings" for her.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I think I've changed. I remember what it felt like to be so close to losing him because of an affair and I decided I never wanted to feel like that again. We both agreed we didn't want to do that again. But here we are, almost 4 years later. He's questioning whether he even loves me because he did this again, and so am I.
> 
> And yes I agree, there is now way to fix this as long as she's there. His excuse for not leaving is that supposedly she's going to be leaving to some school soon anyway and won't be back. But that could take months. And I don't want to wait around for months until she leaves permanently and he "realizes" he wants to make it work with me.


Just my point of view:

his love for you isn’t valuable enough to him. If it was, he wouldn’t allow himself to become infatuated with another woman.

I restored a 1968 chevelle many years ago, when I was still married. I only drove it on weekends and nice weather. I still had hair, and was in good shape. I found that it was a regular occurrence that I’d have young ladies, some very attractive, that would literally give me their number and tell me what time they got off work and that they wanted a ride. I never had interest, until one day one gave me her number and as I got in the car and went to throw it away as I always did, I hesitated. I thought to myself how amazing it would be to take that girl for a ride. How I’d never taken a girl that beautiful for a ride before. As it hit the trash can I decided to sell that car. A 16 yr old kid owned it 2 weeks later. 

btw, about 4 years after, my ex wife got involved in sexting multiple married men and we divorced. I clearly did not have the same value to her as she did for me.

something to think about.

btw, I don’t miss my ex wife. She doesn’t even look like the person I married, to me.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I wouldn't say with someone who needed to "decide" how he felt about someone else. But that's me!
> 
> Having been emotionally betrayed previously (it wasn't cheating, though) that led to my divorce, I have no tolerance for that stuff.
> 
> Yes, there are men who upon feeling something for a 21 year old **** up would pull their head out of their ass and distance themselves from that person as soon as possible and wouldn't dawdle around with his "feelings" for her.


I know that's exactly how I should proceed. I know I should have enough self-respect to just go and file for divorce. but it's easier than done. We have an 8-year-old daughter and she absolutely adores her father, and vice versa. 
I can handle being heartbroken, I can handle being alone, I can handle all the hurt in the world EXCEPT hurting our daughter. That is the worst thing in all this. She's a very sensitive, loving girl. I don't want to create a cycle. My husband and I have never had examples or role models of "successful marriages". Our parents hav all divorced multiple times. I don't want my daughter to go through that. But I also realize that staying together just for her sake will do her more harm than good as well. This is just a ****ty situation all around and I'm torn.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Just my point of view:
> 
> his love for you isn’t valuable enough to him. If it was, he wouldn’t allow himself to become infatuated with another woman.
> 
> ...


I know, and it hurts to think that while I've been keeping my end of the bargain, bending over backwards for him, he went and fell for some ****ed up girl that it would never work out with.

My brain knows that obviously he doesn't love me enough when he went and did what he did. My heart thinks he made a mistake and is confused and hopes that in the end he'll realize he actually loves me. 

It's a raging war.


I'm sorry that your wife did not value you as you did her. I hope you have found happiness now.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I know that's exactly how I should proceed. I know I should have enough self-respect to just go and file for divorce. but it's easier than done. We have an 8-year-old daughter and she absolutely adores her father, and vice versa.
> I can handle being heartbroken, I can handle being alone, I can handle all the hurt in the world EXCEPT hurting our daughter. That is the worst thing in all this. She's a very sensitive, loving girl. I don't want to create a cycle. My husband and I have never had examples or role models of "successful marriages". Our parents hav all divorced multiple times. I don't want my daughter to go through that. But I also realize that staying together just for her sake will do her more harm than good as well. This is just a ****ty situation all around and I'm torn.


My ex and I lived in the same town, co parented nicely, and the kids saw each of us equal time. In fact, there was never any drop off or pick up, they just took the school bus home to either house. They also had a full life set up at each house. No need to carry anything back and forth except regular school backpack.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I know, and it hurts to think that while I've been keeping my end of the bargain, bending over backwards for him, he went and fell for some ****ed up girl that it would never work out with.
> 
> My brain knows that obviously he doesn't love me enough when he went and did what he did. My heart thinks he made a mistake and is confused and hopes that in the end he'll realize he actually loves me.
> 
> ...


HE should be the one bending over backward, not you. He's living in a fantasy world, or he's trying to escape. There are issues in the marriage on his end, he's just not getting to what it is. The cheating is just the residual of it.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Livvie said:


> My ex and I lived in the same town, co parented nicely, and the kids saw each of us equal time. In fact, there was never any drop off or pick up, they just took the school bus home to either house. They also had a full life set up at each house. No need to carry anything back and forth except regular school backpack.


Yes, but him being in the military means he won't always be around. In fact, he has to transfer summer 2022. And although he will do everything to stay close, that may not be what happens.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My guess is that you are going to allow your heart to win this battle (assuming he doesn’t run off with her and make the decision for you). I hope he proves to be worth it — time will tell — but I would advise you never to trust him the way you once did.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> HE should be the one bending over backward, not you. He's living in a fantasy world, or he's trying to escape. There are issues in the marriage on his end, he's just not getting to what it is. The cheating is just the residual of it.


I agree. He should be. He was bending over backwards at the very beginning when I found out and kicked him out. But then a few weeks passed and he cam back from a 5 day patrol and he was all messed up. Confused, depressed, anxious, etc. And I know that being on that ship with her is part of that happening. But I gave him an ultimatum and he didn't budge. So here we are.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> My guess is that you are going to allow your heart to win this battle (assuming he doesn’t run off with her and make the decision for you). I hope he proves to be worth it — time will tell — but I would advise you never to trust him the way you once did.


I really wish I could be as strong and unfeeling as a rock and put my foot down. I'm reading some self-help books right now and I'm trying to build myself up. I know my heart is weak and I wish nothing more than to toughen up and end this now.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I really wish I could be as strong and unfeeling as a rock and put my foot down. I'm reading some self-help books right now and I'm trying to build myself up. I know my heart is weak and I wish nothing more than to toughen up and end this now.


Your heart will trip you up. Mine did for a very long time. And I would still be stuck in the middle of all that had my brain not finally said enough is enough. I don’t regret getting out but I do regret staying as long as I did. Like you, I had a child whose life I didn’t want to disrupt. There were no divorces in my family. Zero. I didn’t want to be the first one so I kept trying but it takes two to make a marriage work. I never had that. You’ll have to decide if you do.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

He's at a "tough" age for guys. His career is in full swing and younger women are taking notice. As a guy when you're 21, women your age don't know you're alive. Then you get older and they surround you like flies on a turd. I doubt this will work out with this other girl, but there will be others as his career progresses. I can't tell you what to do, but I know from watching my female friends who were in similar situations that they waited several years past when they knew it was over. I'm sure the idea of being single is scary if you've never done it. However if you wait another 10 years it will be a lot more frightening.

Wishing you strength and all the best.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Your heart will trip you up. Mine did for a very long time. And I would still be stuck in the middle of all that had my brain not finally said enough is enough. I don’t regret getting out but I do regret staying as long as I did. Like you, I had a child whose life I didn’t want to disrupt. There were no divorces in my family. Zero. I didn’t want to be the first one so I kept trying but it takes two to make a marriage work. I never had that. You’ll have to decide if you do.


How did it work out for you and your child? How did it affect him/her? That's my biggest fear, hurting her and creating life-long trauma.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> He's at a "tough" age for guys. His career is in full swing and younger women are taking notice. As a guy when you're 21, women your age don't know you're alive. Then you get older and they surround you like flies on a turd. I doubt this will work out with this other girl, but there will be others as his career progresses. I can't tell you what to do, but I know from watching my female friends who were in similar situations that they waited several years past when they knew it was over. I'm sure the idea of being single is scary if you've never done it. However if you wait another 10 years it will be a lot more frightening.
> 
> Wishing you strength and all the best.


Thank you for your advice. This is something I've definitely been contemplating. "This won't be the last time, there will be others, rip the bandaid off now, don't wait another 5, 10 years to be in this spot again." I've considered it all. Doesn't make things any easier though.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I appreciate all your responses, even if it hurts to think about the points you've made. And I do realize that a big part of this is that neither one of us has known anything else as adults. Do you believe there is any way to save our marriage? Anything that could be done? Or is divorce the only answer here?


How good are you at turning a blind eye? You either accept this is who he is and adopt a don't ask/don't tell policy or you accept that your marriage is over. If you're smart you'll never trust him again. He's already shown you he is capable of physically cheating, emotionally cheating, and lying....more than once. You may trust that he won't bail, you may trust he'll be honest about money, you may trust him to do some things, but you will never trust that he's being faithful or that he actually loves you.



ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Is there any hope to ever be happy with someone??? I feel so disappointed from reading everyone's stories on here. Like being hurt and cheated on is inevitable no matter who you're with. Are there any actual happy endings?


Real long story, my exH and I married young. I was 19, he was 21. We'd been together since I was 16 and he 18. I forgave the first couple instances of cheating. I felt obligated to stay because kid. Then, a few years later, it became kids. He cheated 3 or 4 times before I said "Hell with it, Ima get mine" and I started having affairs. By the time I was 23 I was done. I told him I wanted out, he begged and pleaded, guilted and manipulated. I agreed to cease all extramarital activity and give it a year. 9 months later I caught him at the club with his tongue down some girls throat and his hand in the...uhhh...cookie jar.

She jumped up and asked me not to kick her ass. I laughed long and hard. I then told her I wasn't going to bother getting into a fight and that if she wanted him she was welcome to him.

I met a man at the same club shortly afterward, fell in love at first sight, and I have been very happily married to that man for 21 years now.

Happy endings do exist. 



ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> We've set boundaries, and made rules. He just didn't respect them, clearly.


Why would he? You stayed after the first time. He learned he can manipulate you with some crocodile tears and empty promises.



ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> How can I enforce them? I mean this all came out of nowhere, I THOUGHT we were both following our rules and respecting the boundaries we set. We were fine, he left for 3 weeks and came back "loving" someone else. I was knocked sideways. Completely blindsided.


You may have been blindsided, but now you know. You enforce the boundary you set by ending the marriage when he crosses it. If you stay you show him you're willing to allow him to cross boundaries at his leisure. A boundary is only a boundary if you enforce it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> How did it work out for you and your child? How did it affect him/her? That's my biggest fear, hurting her and creating life-long trauma.


I didn’t divorce until my child was an adult. He wishes I had gotten out decades before I did because staying apparently didn’t benefit him the way I thought it would. That’s why I never recommend staying for the children. They know if their parents are in a dysfunctional relationship no matter how hard you try to hide it.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> How did it work out for you and your child? How did it affect him/her? That's my biggest fear, hurting her and creating life-long trauma.


I'll tell you from the perspective of a kid who's been through it (me), when my parents split, it was the best thing that could happen. I was free, not a nervous wreck anymore, not having to shut down my feelings b/c my father was angry and yelling like a lunatic every second of every day, and you didn't know what mood he was going to come home in. 

So, it might turn out better than you think.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

MJJEAN said:


> How good are you at turning a blind eye? You either accept this is who he is and adopt a don't ask/don't tell policy or you accept that your marriage is over. If you're smart you'll never trust him again. He's already shown you he is capable of physically cheating, emotionally cheating, and lying....more than once. You may trust that he won't bail, you may trust he'll be honest about money, you may trust him to do some things, but you will never trust that he's being faithful or that he actually loves you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you. You've made some very valid points, just like everyone else who has replied. He will be leaving on Sunday on a patrol for 3 weeks. I will be doing some hard thinking during that time. Tomorrow I'm meeting with a divorce lawyer so I can know all my options. I know it will hurt, I know it's going to be a long time before I move on. I have to be strong for my daughter. I hope I don't fail her.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> I'll tell you from the perspective of a kid who's been through it (me), when my parents split, it was the best thing that could happen. I was free, not a nervous wreck anymore, not having to shut down my feelings b/c my father was angry and yelling like a lunatic every second of every day, and you didn't know what mood he was going to come home in.
> 
> So, it might turn out better than you think.


Right, in that scenario I can see why it was better for you. With our daughter we have never even argued in front of her. We never yell, we never fight, we never do anything "bad" in front of her. I can see that she senes "something" is up because you just can't hide the tension and anxiety. But how do we explain to an 8-year-old who is very attached to her parents that we are deciding not to be together anymore?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> I didn’t divorce until my child was an adult. He wishes I had gotten out decades before I did because staying apparently didn’t benefit him the way I thought it would. That’s why I never recommend staying for the children. They know if their parents are in a dysfunctional relationship no matter how hard you try to hide it.


I don't want our daughter to be the reason either one of us stays. Not at all. I know that's creating more damage. More like, our daughter would be ONE MORE reason to stay together. The first being that we love each other.

Obviously the love is one way, otherwise he wouldn't have done this. I believe he cares for me, but love is definitely not what he feels if he did this. Or it could have nothing to do with me or how he feels about me. It might just be him with unresolved issues, baggage, etc. Obviously we both have hurt each other in the past, and maybe he has never healed from that. I could go down a million rabbit holes to try to understand, it won't do me any good. In the end I just have to remind myself that there is someone out there who will treat me right, who won't make me feel less than, who I won't have to wonder whether he loves me or not because he will show me every day. It's a comforting thought to have, while it leaves me feeling very sad at the same time that my husband couldn't be that person for me.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I have to be strong for my daughter. I hope I don't fail her.


My kids were 6 and 1 when I left my ex. They're grown now. They're fine. I provided them stability, was honest with them in an age appropriate way when they had questions (they know about their father's affairs and mine, as well) and just generally parented. You know, "brush your teeth and time for bed" "Clean your room, please" "No, you cannot lick the WD-40" and life went on. There were a few "I want things back the way they were!" tantrums from my eldest, but we talked our way through them.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’m gonna simplify this for you:
If you want your husband back, file for divorce.
If you don’t want him back, file for divorce.

anything but a crushing right cross of reality is empowering him to leave you.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’m gonna simplify this for you:
> If you want your husband back, file for divorce.
> If you don’t want him back, file for divorce.
> 
> anything but a crushing right cross of reality is empowering him to leave you.


Well that’s that then. Thank you. I made an appointment to meet with a lawyer tomorrow.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

MJJEAN said:


> My kids were 6 and 1 when I left my ex. They're grown now. They're fine. I provided them stability, was honest with them in an age appropriate way when they had questions (they know about their father's affairs and mine, as well) and just generally parented. You know, "brush your teeth and time for bed" "Clean your room, please" "No, you cannot lick the WD-40" and life went on. There were a few "I want things back the way they were!" tantrums from my eldest, but we talked our way through them.


Thank you for sharing. It does give me hope that things will be alright for my daughter.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

I’m feeling so anxious. I don’t know how to even do this. I don’t know if I should tell him I’m filing for divorce before he leaves on Sunday or wait the 3 weeks and see how he comes back, and then file for divorce.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I’m feeling so anxious. I don’t know how to even do this. I don’t know if I should tell him I’m filing for divorce before he leaves on Sunday or wait the 3 weeks and see how he comes back, and then file for divorce.


You know him (and yourself) better than anyone. If you think he would be manipulative (threaten to take his life, hurt himself, etc.....) or if you know he would talk you out of it. Just do it then tell him or just let him get served. Make sure you have your ish together and you're not stuck in a bad or even dangerous situation.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Divorce sometimes works as a wake-up call as to what is about to be lost. It can always be stopped but you’ll be out the filing fee. Ask the lawyer for guidance.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> You know him (and yourself) better than anyone. If you think he would be manipulative (threaten to take his life, hurt himself, etc.....) or if you know he would talk you out of it. Just do it then tell him or just let him get served. Make sure you have your ish together and you're not stuck in a bad or even dangerous situation.


Before he came back all "confused" he was trying very hard to convince me to give him another chance. I don't know what changed during that 5 day patrol but now he just doesn't want to commit to any decision. He doesn't want to leave me or stay with me, he doesn't know how he feels, he says he feels lost, anxious, depressed. He says he wishes someone would just tell what the "right" thing to do is. He's paralyzed by fear and indecision. And I'm on the same boat, obviously. Except I do know that the "right" thing to do is just leave him for good and get a divorce. I just wonder whether it's a good idea to tell him I'm filing for divorce before he leaves, or wait until he comes back in 3 weeks. I'm not sure what those 3 weeks are going to do for either of or if it will even help. But I also don't want to rush to file for divorce and act impulsively.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Divorce sometimes works as a wake-up call as to what is about to be lost. It can always be stopped but you’ll be out the filing fee. Ask the lawyer for guidance.


Should I tell him before he leaves and let him chew on that news for 3 weeks or drop the bombshell when he comes back?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Never bluff with divorce. If you mean it, and you should, tell him now only if you intend to file and are ok with him choosing the OW, which is what he has been doing every time he says he’s confused. Don’t give the AHole that power over you. Unconfuse him. 
You’ll never be happy being second best in any marriage. Gotta deal with the pain or it will deal with you. We e been there. Allowing a cheater to keep cheating never works out for the betrayed spouse.
I’m confused translates to : “Damn this cake is good and I don’t want to stop munching on it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Should I tell him before he leaves and let him chew on that news for 3 weeks or drop the bombshell when he comes back?


Tell him now if you’re sure you can back it up. Nothing says weak as much as threatening divorce and not carrying through.


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## mainesqueeze (Nov 22, 2013)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Should I tell him before he leaves and let him chew on that news for 3 weeks or drop the bombshell when he comes back?


If you aren’t certain about it, then wait. I could see him taking that as license to do something with this other woman and there’s no coming back from that. Though frankly, I don’t see how there’s any way to come back from what he’s already done anyway. Essentially, saying he can’t choose is making a choice. The fact that he even used the word “love” in reference to her would’ve sent me over the edge. I’m so sorry.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He wants to get involved with a 21 year old who is looking for her* 3rd* husband. He is a moron. Divorce him for that reason alone.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

mainesqueeze said:


> If you aren’t certain about it, then wait. I could see him taking that as license to do something with this other woman and there’s no coming back from that. Though frankly, I don’t see how there’s any way to come back from what he’s already done anyway. Essentially, saying he can’t choose is making a choice. The fact that he even used the word “love” in reference to her would’ve sent me over the edge. I’m so sorry.


Thank you for your advice. I’m feeling more determined this morning, a little stronger. I will be speaking to a lawyer this afternoon and from there I hope I can move forward with the divorce once I know all the factors. I don’t know what to expect or what I should even be asking.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> He wants to get involved with a 21 year old who is looking for her* 3rd* husband. He is a moron. Divorce him for that reason alone.


I hope he doesn't live to regret it.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I’m feeling so anxious. I don’t know how to even do this. I don’t know if I should tell him I’m filing for divorce before he leaves on Sunday or wait the 3 weeks and see how he comes back, and then file for divorce.


Do not file yet. Go to the lawyer just to see your options in the event you do decide to file. Wait the 3 weeks.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Do not file yet. Go to the lawyer just to see your options in the event you do decide to file. Wait the 3 weeks.


Im not going to file yet. Today I just want to speak to the lawyer to see what my options are. Either way, I know I cannot forgive him for this, I can’t continue to degrade myself for someone who clearly didn’t value me or our marriage.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Im not going to file yet. Today I just want to speak to the lawyer to see what my options are. Either way, I know I cannot forgive him for this, I can’t continue to degrade myself for someone who clearly didn’t value me or our marriage.


That's great. You're in a better place now!


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> That's great. You're in a better place now!


I'm very glad I found this forum and extremely thankful for everyone that shared their advice and stories with me. It has made me feel a lot more determined and a lot less weak and hopeless. I know I have a lot of bad days ahead, and this won't be easy at all, but I plan to get through it with grace and dignity.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I'm very glad I found this forum and extremely thankful for everyone that shared their advice and stories with me. It has made me feel a lot more determined and a lot less weak and hopeless. I know I have a lot of bad days ahead, and this won't be easy at all, but I plan to get through it with grace and dignity.


Haha! We are glad also. I think many of us came on here out of sheer desperation, and at our wits end.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

One thing I really don't get is how he was able to lose 30 lbs in 3 weeks. Dang, it takes me forever to drop ten. Is he morbidly obese?


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> One thing I really don't get is how he was able to lose 30 lbs in 3 weeks. Dang, it takes me forever to drop ten. Is he morbidly obese?


Not at all, he’s 6 feet tall and was weighing around 210 when he left...he came back weighing around 180.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> Before he came back all "confused" he was trying very hard to convince me to give him another chance. *I don't know what changed during that 5 day patrol *but now he just doesn't want to commit to any decision. ...


Really? I'm pretty sure all of us here could make a pretty educated guess as to what changed. You know, when he was on a boat with his new love interest for five days and came home all "confused."  

🤦‍♀️


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Rowan said:


> Really? I'm pretty sure all of us here could make a pretty educated guess as to what changed. You know, when he was on a boat with his new love interest for five days and came home all "confused."
> 
> 🤦‍♀️


As I'm reading other people's stories on here, I can see my case is not very different. It still blows my mind though, that someone who prides himself in taking the "moral high ground" could end up being such a POS. Ugh, I'm ****ing disgusted.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

I met with a lawyer today that handled a close friend’s divorce. I felt so numb and detached and completely blanked out when he asked me if I had any questions. I couldn’t think of anything to ask other than what custody might be like. I took home some paperwork I’m supposed to fill out when I decide to move forward. I have yet to sit down and look through it, I’m a coward.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I have yet to sit down and look through it, I’m a coward.


You are not a coward, just a human being.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

your husband does. Slam it.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Thank you all for your motivating words. I just found out that instead of 3 weeks he will be gone for 4 weeks and that just gives me even more anxiety. That’s a whole month of just waiting.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

So today started off rough. My daughter was supposed to dress as a Disney character for school and I completely forgot. We only realized when we got to school and saw some of the kids dressed up. I feel like I'm barely functioning these days and I can't keep up with even the simplest tasks. I felt like such a failure that I just started crying in my car after dropping her off. 

I don't know how to do this, at all.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Don’t expect perfection from yourself. This is the most hurtful and difficult time you will hopefully ever go through. Do the best you can. We have been there. We know how it feels, how hard it is to function. 
Take things a day at a time.
It takes a while to get over losing someone you love, even if the love is being beat out of you. But it will get better and you’ll feel better. Filing and planning your new life will help lessen the pain faster. Staying in your misery by not filing and moving on keeps you in your misery.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Don’t expect perfection from yourself. This is the most hurtful and difficult time you will hopefully ever go through. Do the best you can. We have been there. We know how it feels, how hard it is to function.
> Take things a day at a time.
> It takes a while to get over losing someone you love, even if the love is being beat out of you. But it will get better and you’ll feel better. Filing and planning your new life will help lessen the pain faster. Staying in your misery by not filing and moving on keeps you in your misery.


Thank you, it helps to think that other people have been in my shoes and have made it. These days I don't even want to get out of bed and it's a Herculean task to do the most basic things. I know it's normal, and I know it will pass. It still hurts like hell though. I wish I could skip this part altogether.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I just started crying in my car after dropping her off.


Mercury must be in retrograde. I was doing the same thing last night. I'm sorry you're having a hard time.


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

GC1234 said:


> Mercury must be in retrograde. I was doing the same thing last night. I'm sorry you're having a hard time.


I’m so sorry! Sending you strength and positive energy!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

GC1234 said:


> Mercury must be in retrograde. I was doing the same thing last night. I'm sorry you're having a hard time.


Mercury is not retrograde right now.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> I’m so sorry! Sending you strength and positive energy!


Thank you! And the same for you!!


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## 348731 (Mar 17, 2021)

So it's been exactly 2 weeks since my husband left on a 4 week patrol. We ended up talking today because our landlord called saying she wanted to sell the house and asked if we were interested. With everything going on, I just had to ask him point blank if he had made a decision. If he was still confused about what he wanted. It turned into an hour-long conversation of him telling me it wasn't that simple, that it wasn't "black or white". I told him he couldn't have one foot in the marriage and one foot out. That he either wanted to be all in with me and work through this together or we go our separate ways. He told me that he thinks he's been depressed for a long time, over out past mistakes. He wondered if he is this way because it's me, or if he would be the same way with another woman. He says he realizes he never let go of the past, and that has affected him all these years and he never even realized it. The conversation basically ended with me saying that I will go ahead and start filing for divorce so that when he returns the papers will be waiting for him to sign. He said he was sorry for everything. I told him to take care of himself. It hurts so much because all I wanted was for him to fight for us, to say that he did not want to get a divorce, and that he loved me. I feel like my heart is bleeding out. I just want to crawl into bed and never wake up again.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

ClaudiaOfTroy said:


> So it's been exactly 2 weeks since my husband left on a 4 week patrol. We ended up talking today because our landlord called saying she wanted to sell the house and asked if we were interested. With everything going on, I just had to ask him point blank if he had made a decision. If he was still confused about what he wanted. It turned into an hour-long conversation of him telling me it wasn't that simple, that it wasn't "black or white". I told him he couldn't have one foot in the marriage and one foot out. That he either wanted to be all in with me and work through this together or we go our separate ways. He told me that he thinks he's been depressed for a long time, over out past mistakes. He wondered if he is this way because it's me, or if he would be the same way with another woman. He says he realizes he never let go of the past, and that has affected him all these years and he never even realized it. The conversation basically ended with me saying that I will go ahead and start filing for divorce so that when he returns the papers will be waiting for him to sign. He said he was sorry for everything. I told him to take care of himself. It hurts so much because all I wanted was for him to fight for us, to say that he did not want to get a divorce, and that he loved me. I feel like my heart is bleeding out. I just want to crawl into bed and never wake up again.


Oof that's rough. BUT, at least you know! Feel all the feelings, it's important for you to process that, but at least you know that you literally did everything you could to try and work it out, so you shouldn't feel any feelings of guilt. File for divorce, and go for some IC (Individual Counseling). Work through your issues, so that you're aware of your issues, and also will be better equipped if you decide to ever be in another relationship.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

It's time for you to find someone who loves and respects you. The divorce will be painful, but if you go through it with a determination to one day be happy, you will.


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