# Torn about possibly reconciling with my STBXH



## Begin again

My STBXH and I have been separated for approx 9 months. Recently I was finally able to let go of the resentment I felt toward him. I resented him because he refused to work through our problems with me and instead stonewalled/went passive aggressive/avoided/said he could live this way so why can't I? It wasn't a marriage and we both admit that now.

Some of the issues in our marriage have faded; for example, I'm not angry anymore and so I treat him like I did many years ago. I also have turned a corner sexually and really enjoy sex now (I had one relationship since we separated). From my side of things, I've changed the very things he wanted me to change. There is one thing that won't change, and that's how I feel about his parents. I can't make myself like them; I can only tolerate them and ask that I not see them often. Not sure he could accept that.

On his side of the street, he's part way to fixing how he was in the marriage that was bad for us. He is being more open with me, more willing to address issues, so that is very good. That's what I had asked for, and I think that now he feels safe and will tell me things he wouldn't before. So plus there. 

But there are still two big issues for us, one which we must solve together and one that he must solve alone.

The issue we must solve together, should we attempt to reconcile, is that we have a child who has a number of issues. We spend a large portion of our days helping this child with homework. He sees specialists; we meet with teachers; we do, do, do. I've heard it said and I believe it, neediness is a libido killer. Well, the needs and responsibilities of our son really did wipe out a lot of our relationship. Can we solve that? Not sure.

The final, big issue: his self esteem. He really lacks confidence. He hides it pretty well with a stoic exterior, but he also doesn't laugh much, he isn't playful, he generally is kinda flat in his voice and demeanor. I'm the opposite and want someone who has energy and is positive. Someone who looks forward to seeing me, who I get excited to talk to because we energize each other. The $64K question is whether he will work on his self esteem and whether he will come out of his shell. 

He says he's finally interested in making these changes. I told him he must do it for himself, not me. Don't try to "win me back" (I was the one who moved out) by making changes. If you want to be confident (and I would think any person would), then he should work on himself for himself.

And last thing: We did have sex twice recently. It was fantastic in some ways and exactly as it was in others. The exactly as it was is, I think, because he is closed off. It's hard to be playful in the bedroom with someone who isn't playful. Take the wind out of your sails, if you know what I mean.

OK. That's the short of it. I really am open to your ideas. I don't want to make any rash decisions. I definitely don't want the kids to get their hopes up. I've told him that we both really need to be in the right place before we attempt to reconcile, if we do. Obviously, I'm not sure what to think.


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## Ralph Bellamy

No offense, but it kind of sounds like you want him to perform an act for you. How would you feel if the tables were turned? Was he like this before you were married?


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## FeministInPink

I would hold off on the potential reconciliation. He's got to do the work for himself, not you--as you said. Do you think he's doing it for you? 

If you can, I would say that you take sex out of the equation totally. Hard to do when you were previously intimate, I know, but do it. And maybe start as friends, rather than potential partners.


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## Begin again

FeministInPink said:


> I would hold off on the potential reconciliation. He's got to do the work for himself, not you--as you said. Do you think he's doing it for you?
> 
> If you can, I would say that you take sex out of the equation totally. Hard to do when you were previously intimate, I know, but do it. And maybe start as friends, rather than potential partners.


Thanks. That's where my head is at as well. Just don't want to hurt him. And your signature is a good one; apropos for this conversation...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

Ralph Bellamy said:


> No offense, but it kind of sounds like you want him to perform an act for you. How would you feel if the tables were turned? Was he like this before you were married?


I definitely don't want him to pretend to be something he's not. Is that what you think I'm asking?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KillerClown

So your husband is an introvert who over the years learned to hide his lack of self-esteem by putting up a stoic exterior. He did not think he needed to change because it had served him well personally and professionally his entire life. This is the man you married but you want him to change, why? Because he's not fun?

Your husband has a good relationship with his parents but you want to see less of them because you don't like them and you're making that a condition of the reconciliation. Is that fair?

You've been separated for 9 months during which you've had casual sex with another man. Did your husband agree to you seeing other people during the separation?

I'm not even going to address what you said about your special-needs child. If I can't say anything nice, etc. etc.

Honestly, I'm not sure why your husband should try to win you back at all.


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## Begin again

KillerClown said:


> So your husband is an introvert who over the years learned to hide his lack of self-esteem by putting up a stoic exterior. He did not think he needed to change because it had served him well personally and professionally his entire life. This is the man you married but you want him to change, why? Because he's not fun?
> 
> Your husband has a good relationship with his parents but you want to see less of them because you don't like them and you're making that a condition of the reconciliation. Is that fair?
> 
> You've been separated for 9 months during which you've had casual sex with another man. Did your husband agree to you seeing other people during the separation?
> 
> I'm not even going to address what you said about your special-needs child. If I can't say anything nice, etc. etc.
> 
> Honestly, I'm not sure why your husband should try to win you back at all.


Hello KC - you've jumped to many conclusions in your post, so let me clarify.

1. My H does not have a good relationship with his parents. He just accepts them better than I can, but he doesn't like spending time with them, per se. He is the ditiful son who visits and calls because that's what he believes is the right thing to do.

2. He is introverted, yes. So am I. But he has lived behind a wall he made for himself since puberty. He doesn't let anyone in and he says he trusts me more than anyone. He says that every interaction he has with another person is awkward inside his mind. In short, he's not been happy his entire life, but he's been to afraid to make an attempt at something more.

3. We both love our son and are an advocate for him. If you have a kid with special needs and it hasn't affected your life and relationship, then please write a book on your success. If you don't, then you are just judgmental and clueless. I'm simply being honest - it's tough. It just is. And it's something we would need to work together on to make sure it didn't impact us like it did before. It's a fact; it's an acknowledgment of our reality. Period.

4. Your take no prisoners/call it all as I see it (and it's all bad in your view) approach is an inappropriate response to a woman who is sincerely looking to reconcile and asking for experiences and insights on her situation. If you think being ugly and discouraging works, then just take your skills somewhere else. If you have something insightful to offer, I'm all ears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KillerClown

Begin again said:


> Hello KC - you've jumped to many conclusions in your post, so let me clarify.
> 
> 1. My H does not have a good relationship with his parents. He just accepts them better than I can, but he doesn't like spending time with them, per se. He is the ditiful son who visits and calls because that's what he believes is the right thing to do. You said: I can only tolerate them and ask that I not see them often. Not sure he could accept that. If he doesn't see them often what is the problem?
> 
> 2. He is introverted, yes. So am I. But he has lived behind a wall he made for himself since puberty. He doesn't let anyone in and he says he trusts me more than anyone. He says that every interaction he has with another person is awkward inside his mind. In short, he's not been happy his entire life, but he's been to afraid to make an attempt at something more.You said: I resented him because he refused to work through our problems with me and instead stonewalled/went passive aggressive/avoided/said he could live this way so why can't I? So he didn't see a problem until you asked him to change.
> 
> 3. We both love our son and are an advocate for him. If you have a kid with special needs and it hasn't affected your life and relationship, then please write a book on your success. If you don't, then you are just judgmental and clueless. I'm simply being honest - it's tough. It just is. And it's something we would need to work together on to make sure it didn't impact us like it did before. It's a fact; it's an acknowledgment of our reality. Period. I do. I think it made the family a stronger team. I didn't write a book on it because there are lots of parents with special needs kids and it's not that interesting.
> 
> 4. Your take no prisoners/call it all as I see it (and it's all bad in your view) approach is an inappropriate response to a woman who is sincerely looking to reconcile and asking for experiences and insights on her situation. If you think being ugly and discouraging works, then just take your skills somewhere else. If you have something insightful to offer, I'm all ears.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You haven't addressed my question regarding your casual affair. Did he agree to an open separation? Have you told your husband about it after it happened?

Reconciliation is a two way street. Aside from not being angry any more, what have you done to accommodate his needs? So far I've heard nothing he's done wrong except being an introvert and having parent you don't like.


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## Begin again

KillerClown said:


> You haven't addressed my question regarding your casual affair. Did he agree to an open separation? Have you told your husband about it after it happened?
> 
> Reconciliation is a two way street. Aside from not being angry any more, what have you done to accommodate his needs? So far I've heard nothing he's done wrong except being an introvert and having parent you don't like.


First, it's not a "casual affair." Lots of people date while separated and while you may call it what you like, it was not an affair. At the time, he knew what I was doing and he was free to date as well. He did date a bit. At the time, we were both thinking there was no going back.

He did quite a bit to damage our relationship (Google conflict avoidance and passive aggressive and see what you find) and I have outlined it above. I did, too. If he were here, he'd say all the same things I'm saying.

Lastly, what have I done to meet his needs? His need was for me to stop asking him to open up, to treat him better. I have done both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

After talking to him, I think we've agreed to just not do anything right now. We will likely go ahead and divorce in the next few months once we are eligible to do so. Split the assets, etc. if we come back together one day, then it will be because we both want what the other one brings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars

Begin again said:


> After talking to him, I think we've agreed to just not do anything right now. We will likely go ahead and divorce in the next few months once we are eligible to do so. Split the assets, etc. if we come back together one day, then it will be because we both want what the other one brings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do not get this post.

All postings are today's.

At first, you wanted good and positive advice....OK, that is what everyone wants......not going to happen.

You first said that you have altered/changed [yourself] to his desired requests. He has agreed to work on his faults. 

Now you say Divorce is unavoidable and will happen. And all of this in one day of posting....here.

Forgive me, this sounds wishy-washy. Then, I remember that you are under extreme emotional pressure.

Is this the "Well, I tried to work through our marriage problems and I cannot save our marriage". 

Are you sincere in your feelings to R or are you just uncontrollably conflicted? Either way I understand.

In my opinion your husband cannot change his introversion....unless you inject high levels of steroids in him!

You are not compatible. Do not waste his time or yours....get divorced and start a new life. It will not be easy....it will not be easy regardless.

Good luck.


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## Begin again

@KC - just wanted to add that when your marriage is already weak, when communication is not good, when your relationship is a drain on you rather than a source of strength, then having a special needs kid likely tears you apart. We didn't have the strong marital foundation - the skills and mutual support - that is so vital to handling the circumstances. Again, just stating a fact. I wanted to believe it would make us stronger, that we could do work together to help him. And in the end, we have. But we've had to get others to help us at every step and tell us what to do because we couldn't agree together to make things work between us to his benefit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

SunCMars said:


> I do not get this post.
> 
> All postings are today's.
> 
> At first, you wanted good and positive advice....OK, that is what everyone wants......not going to happen.
> 
> You first said that you have altered/changed [yourself] to his desired requests. He has agreed to work on his faults.
> 
> Now you say Divorce is unavoidable and will happen. And all of this in one day of posting....here.
> 
> Forgive me, this sounds wishy-washy. Then, I remember that you are under extreme emotional pressure.
> 
> Is this the "Well, I tried to work through our marriage problems and I cannot save our marriage".
> 
> Are you sincere in your feelings to R or are you just uncontrollably conflicted? Either way I understand.
> 
> In my opinion your husband cannot change his introversion....unless you inject high levels of steroids in him!
> 
> You are not compatible. Do not waste his time or yours....get divorced and start a new life. It will not be easy....it will not be easy regardless.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks, Sun. Yes, it is very confusing and we both know that this will take time. If things work out, it could be a slow process. I read Ampexlor's sticky and while it gave me hope, it also showed me just how long reconciliation can take. 

I also recognize that I'm asking him to change something that has been stable throughout his life. One poster used the term "introvert" to describe what he needs to change, but that is not it. I, too, am an introvert. Introverts get their batteries recharged through time alone. It doesn't mean they can't have a positive attitude. It doesn't mean they lack self confidence. It doesn't mean they can't greet you in the morning with a smile and a kiss. It doesn't mean they can't have fun in bed. I don't think I'm being unrealistic there. Google famous introverts and you'll find names like Michael Jordan and Mark Zuckerberg. They may not be the life of a party, but I'm pretty sure they can be positive and smile!

What causes him to pull back, to be distant with pretty much everyone, is that he is insecure and doesn't trust. Extroverts can be distrustful and live only on the surface, so again, introversion is not the issue. In fact, some people compensate for their feeling of insecurity by dressing well, acting like they have a great life, bragging, etc. Most narcissists are actually insecure people who mask it by behaving the opposite.

Nevertheless, I am asking him to change something that has been a stable part of him for most of his life. But I don't think insecurity is a personality trait. Maybe it is. Maybe when you look at nature vs nurture, it's nature that causes it. Not sure. But I know if he can change it will take a long time. Waiting around for him to change is where my uncertainty is. I am not sure it's the right choice, hence why I'm here being open and honest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you looked into him having toxic shame? If he has it, that can be directly and successfully (in some cases) addressed so that he can learn to be happy.


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## Begin again

turnera said:


> Have you looked into him having toxic shame? If he has it, that can be directly and successfully (in some cases) addressed so that he can learn to be happy.


I'm not sure. Will have to google that and see what I find. I've asked him to describe when he changed and what he thinks cause his feelings of insecurity, but nothing he describes seems like anything other than middle school angst. He did move a lot as a kid and his father is a distant man, but those things still don't seem to add up. Maybe it's just a combination of a lot of small events and experiences...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## She'sStillGotIt

It just sounds like you're both on your best behavior right now but quite honestly, all you've gotten from him is a whole lot of lip service about 'how he _wants_ to get better.....' and blah blah blah.

Well, I _want _to be a supermodel. It ain't going to happen simply because I want it.:grin2:

But he's really done nothing to change who he is and the *same* problems that drove you away the first time are going to come right back to the forefront eventually and drive you away again.

Nothing changes if NOTHING changes.



> After talking to him, I think we've agreed to just not do anything right now. We will likely go ahead and divorce in the next few months once we are eligible to do so. Split the assets, etc. if we come back together one day, then it will be because we both want what the other one brings.


Smartest decision ever.


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## KillerClown

My only advise to you is to stop Googling. I know you got into the habit looking for help with your child but relationship is relationship and words are words. Happiness is not linked to a search result. Real solution is found in the reflection in the other person's eyes.


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## turnera

If he has toxic shame, Googling is a good idea for her, because TSers don't react to the world the same way other people do and she needs to understand him. Their every move is calculated to protect themselves and keep people from realizing they are worthless. It's like doing marriage counseling when one of the two is secretly cheating.


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## yellerstang03

turnera said:


> If he has toxic shame, Googling is a good idea for her, because TSers don't react to the world the same way other people do and she needs to understand him. Their every move is calculated to protect themselves and keep people from realizing they are worthless. It's like doing marriage counseling when one of the two is secretly cheating.


I do not agree that divorce is the answer. Emotional-based decision-making in these circumstances only leads to more damage.

I agree that there is probably some sort of shame-based behavior going on here. And conflicts with our spouse can definitely bring it out because we didn't learn the skills from our parents....perhaps because they didn't have them either.

On the other hand, Begin Again I think you are focused on the wrong person....your husband. You cannot control what your husband does (and if you think you can that's a big red flag)....Try focusing more on yourself. What are your issues? How can you change how you react to your husband's behavior. 

You say there are things that you can be better at and things you have learned, but 98% of your posts talk about your husband's behavior. What should you be better at?


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## yellerstang03

Begin again said:


> I'm not sure. Will have to google that and see what I find. I've asked him to describe when he changed and what he thinks cause his feelings of insecurity, but nothing he describes seems like anything other than middle school angst. He did move a lot as a kid and his father is a distant man, but those things still don't seem to add up. Maybe it's just a combination of a lot of small events and experiences...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


1) Moved a lot as a kid
2) Father was a distant man

These two things can actually be quite damaging to a kid. Kids that move a lot often struggle to have long-term friendships later on in life. And a father that is a distant man is usually not warm and encouraging....also negatively affecting a child's self esteem. Your answer implies that you either don't agree or you don't understand why these things could be damaging?

However, the fact that you yourself don't recognize this leads me to believe there might things in your own childhood that you do not realize are also unhealthy. That is why you should focus on yourself. Have you ever looked at what an ideal healthy childhood looks like? And then put your own up against it? The results might open your eyes a bit.

Or try thinking about it another way. If you can recognize your own issues and have the courage to share them with your husband, it might lead him to open up a bit more about his own issues. Someone has to take the lead and go first.


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## bandit.45

Begin Again what developmental / learning disorder does your child have? 

Have you checked into the possibility that your husband may have ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder)/Aspergers? This could also be another explanation for his shyness and flat aspect. Aspies have incredibly difficult problems with socialization and communication. Many Aspies are brilliantly smart, but many also have co-morbidities such as learning disabilities, ADD, ADHD, Dyslexia and Bi-Polar disorder (BPD). Your husband could have passed these traits on to your son, and if there is any history of learning disabilities in your family then BOOM!

Any attempt at reconciliation should be contingent on your hubby getting tested. 

Oh by the way...sleeping with another guy while separated? Not cool.


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## bandit.45

Begin again said:


> After talking to him, I think we've agreed to just not do anything right now. We will likely go ahead and divorce in the next few months once we are eligible to do so. Split the assets, etc.* if we come back together one day, then it will be because we both want what the other one brings.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You wont. 

Once you right him off he will be yesterday's news and you know it. When a woman is done she is done.


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## Begin again

yellerstang03 said:


> 1) Moved a lot as a kid
> 2) Father was a distant man
> 
> These two things can actually be quite damaging to a kid. Kids that move a lot often struggle to have long-term friendships later on in life. And a father that is a distant man is usually not warm and encouraging....also negatively affecting a child's self esteem. Your answer implies that you either don't agree or you don't understand why these things could be damaging?
> 
> However, the fact that you yourself don't recognize this leads me to believe there might things in your own childhood that you do not realize are also unhealthy. That is why you should focus on yourself. Have you ever looked at what an ideal healthy childhood looks like? And then put your own up against it? The results might open your eyes a bit.
> 
> Or try thinking about it another way. If you can recognize your own issues and have the courage to share them with your husband, it might lead him to open up a bit more about his own issues. Someone has to take the lead and go first.


I have definitely looked at my own childhood and saw both really good experiences and ones that left some scars. However, I think there's an expiration date on blaming your parents for your troubles, and that ends pretty early in adulthood. In truth, I also had a distant father who was actually more critical than his. It bothered me a lot when I was younger, but i dealt with that over a decade ago, and even then I should have moved past it earlier. Just part of growing up, I think.

He knows pretty much every ugly story and pain from all of my life at this point. I'm an open book. I don't think my example has done him any good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

bandit.45 said:


> Begin Again what developmental / learning disorder does your child have?
> 
> Have you checked into the possibility that your husband may have ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder)/Aspergers? This could also be another explanation for his shyness and flat aspect. Aspies have incredibly difficult problems with socialization and communication. Many Aspies are brilliantly smart, but many also have co-morbidities such as learning disabilities, ADD, ADHD, Dyslexia and Bi-Polar disorder (BPD). Your husband could have passed these traits on to your son, and if there is any history of learning disabilities in your family then BOOM!
> 
> Any attempt at reconciliation should be contingent on your hubby getting tested.
> 
> Oh by the way...sleeping with another guy while separated? Not cool.


Yes, I have considered that he may have some type of disorder, but he gets extremely defensive and angry when I say anything like that. I learned a while ago to just not bring it up. Moreover, it's not my place to diagnose him.

And on sleeping with another man while separated, I will simply say that probably 80 to 90 percent of the folks in the separation forum have done so. After going without sex for over 6 years, I didn't want to wait the additional year until I could be granted a divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Just doesn't sound to me like you are into him. He may just not be suitable for marriage to any woman. I would go forward with divorce and learn to be good co-parents.


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## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> Oh by the way...sleeping with another guy while separated? Not cool.


You don't think he did, too?


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## turnera

Begin again said:


> I have definitely looked at my own childhood and saw both really good experiences and ones that left some scars. However, I think there's an expiration date on blaming your parents for your troubles, and that ends pretty early in adulthood. In truth, I also had a distant father who was actually more critical than his. It bothered me a lot when I was younger, but i dealt with that over a decade ago, and even then I should have moved past it earlier. Just part of growing up, I think.


Easier said than done. Most people never outgrow the effects of their parents.


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## Síocháin

Passive Aggressive & Conflict avoidance....been there, done that, divorcing him now. You cannot believe anything they say if they have not done the work necessary to STOP the hateful behavior. And then I guarantee it will take longer than 9 months. I'll probably be in IC for the rest of my life to recover from the bull they put you through. It's just talk to manipulate you. Do not reconcile and be glad you guys are at a point you can co-parent well together.


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## bandit.45

turnera said:


> You don't think he did, too?


Maybe. Doesn't matter now does it?


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## turnera

Sure it does, if you're trying to criticize her.


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## Spicy

Hi honey,

I'm sorry your family is going through this.
I am glad you and he have been able to make some improvements in your relationship, that will be good for all involved in the long run.

My XH had a lot of the qualities you describe, and no matter what, he never got better. I asked for small improvements for 15 years (we were together 20, I was very unhappy the last 15). I think he wanted too, but it was who he is. Chances are you would continue to find the same thing with your husband.

Whatever you ultimately decide, I wish you all the absolute best.


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## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Sure it does, if you're trying to criticize her.


I gotta call it like I see it. She has made up her mind to divorce. So it doesn't matter now.


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## Begin again

bandit.45 said:


> I gotta call it like I see it. She has made up her mind to divorce. So it doesn't matter now.


Actually, I've made up my mind that I shouldn't keep my life on hold waiting for him to make changes should he decide to do so. We have been separated for 9 months now and only when he realized I still love him (but am not in love with him) did he consider making changes. So, I'm not convinced he's doing this for himself. As I've said before, I don't think anyone can make lasting changes when they do so for someone else. You must do it for you. 

His changes could take years, and he may just decide that if we aren't getting back together quickly then why bother looking at himself. I don't want to give him a $hit test, but I do feel that his actions and shared thoughts will tell me a lot.

Lastly, our marriage was not good for many years and he knew his insecurity was an issue for us during all that time. Now, was I the woman back then who he wanted to do the work for? Not at all. I was bitter and resentful. Who signs up for that?!? But even then, he could and should have worked on himself and did not. 

Anyway... I'm continuing to be his friend, treat him well, encourage him, and discuss where each of us are with respect to the other. I'm trying to show him I care without misleading him. It may be too fine of a line to walk...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

Well, reconciliation just blew up hugely. I'm sad and mad at myself for trying. I give up. After many hopeful moments with him, today we fought for hours via text and phone. He says X when he means Y, then tells me I'm wrong and misinterpreted what he says. Over and over. And it's about crazy ****! This isn't what he said, but like this: "I never said it was a good place to eat. I said I liked to eat there." 

Seriously, we went around and with crazy crap like that. And I got sucked into it, pulled down into exactly how it was when I left 9 months ago. I haven't felt this crappy since before I moved out. And even hours into the insane fight, into his crazy double talk, he's saying he doesn't understand why I'm upset and he wants us to work. I feel so manipulated right now, so mind f---ked. and I'm really, really sad and angry at myself that I let it get to this point. I seriously got gas lighted today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You need time away from him.


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## yellerstang03

Spicy said:


> Hi honey,
> 
> I'm sorry your family is going through this.
> I am glad you and he have been able to make some improvements in your relationship, that will be good for all involved in the long run.
> 
> My XH had a lot of the qualities you describe, and no matter what, he never got better. I asked for small improvements for 15 years (we were together 20, I was very unhappy the last 15). I think he wanted too, but it was who he is. Chances are you would continue to find the same thing with your husband.
> 
> Whatever you ultimately decide, I wish you all the absolute best.


You are projecting your own experience on to someone else. Not very mature or healthy.


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## yellerstang03

Begin again said:


> Well, reconciliation just blew up hugely. I'm sad and mad at myself for trying. I give up. After many hopeful moments with him, today we fought for hours via text and phone. He says X when he means Y, then tells me I'm wrong and misinterpreted what he says. Over and over. And it's about crazy ****! This isn't what he said, but like this: "I never said it was a good place to eat. I said I liked to eat there."
> 
> Seriously, we went around and with crazy crap like that. And I got sucked into it, pulled down into exactly how it was when I left 9 months ago. I haven't felt this crappy since before I moved out. And even hours into the insane fight, into his crazy double talk, he's saying he doesn't understand why I'm upset and he wants us to work. I feel so manipulated right now, so mind f---ked. and I'm really, really sad and angry at myself that I let it get to this point. I seriously got gas lighted today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you want a reality check? You are blame-shifting everything onto your husband. Yes, he has responsibility to take as well. But you seem to be fixated on everything he says or does, rather that what you are saying or doing. You cannot control his behavior, but you can control your own. Do you not agree with this?


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## yellerstang03

turnera said:


> Easier said than done. Most people never outgrow the effects of their parents.


This I totally agree with. Most people do not even realize that a lot of their own behavior is driven by the things their parents put on them in childhood.


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## Spicy

yellerstang03 said:


> You are projecting your own experience on to someone else. Not very mature or healthy.


I'm pretty sure the majority of us on here speak from our own experiences and share them with others going through similar challenges. Especially in a situation like this, where my XH is so similar to how she is describing her husband...I may be able to save her some heartache. 

Not sure why you are so defensive about my post to her. Maybe your her STBXH?


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## Begin again

yellerstang03 said:


> Do you want a reality check? You are blame-shifting everything onto your husband. Yes, he has responsibility to take as well. But you seem to be fixated on everything he says or does, rather that what you are saying or doing. You cannot control his behavior, but you can control your own. Do you not agree with this?


I agree 100% that I cannot change anyone but myself. I am fixated on what he says and does because he's saying that he wants us k work while silmutameously negotiating on the things I said I need to reconcile. He keeps arguing that I should accept what he's offering when it's less than what I asked for. And moreover, we spent many hours talking about things that were not related to reconciliation while the most important topics he either avoided or tried to talk me out of. 

I'm not blame shifting, I don't think. I'm asking for what I want and need and clearly laying out my boundaries. Instead of understanding those things, he's trying to negotiate on all of them and have me settle. He says he's been more happy and hopeful than he has been in a long time now that we might reconcile. If that's the case, why does he insist on not hearing my needs? He can't seem to see that he's asking me to settle in order to be with him again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

Spicy said:


> I'm pretty sure the majority of us on here speak from our own experiences and share them with others going through similar challenges. Especially in a situation like this, where my XH is so similar to how she is describing her husband...I may be able to save her some heartache.
> 
> Not sure why you are so defensive about my post to her. Maybe your her STBXH?


Thank you, Spice. The thing is, I want to believe he will work on himself for himself, but what he's showing me is that as soon as he is comfortable that he has me and his family back, he will go right back to how he was. It's a huge red flag for me and he is insisting I shouldn't see it as a red flag at all. It would be like me telling him he must cut off contact with the "other woman" and he says he just won't contact her anymore but if she contacts him first, he will respond. Why can't he see that's not good enough?

And if he does agree to not respond to the other woman, if his agreement is only after hours of arguing, do I even believe him? If he was willing from the outset to have no contact, why did he fight me on it for hours and hours and try to get me to settle for allowing him to respond? It raises big doubts for me, but he thinks it should not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spicy

Begin again said:


> Thank you, Spice. The thing is, I want to believe he will work on himself for himself, but what he's showing me is that *as soon as he is comfortable that he has me and his family back, he will go right back to how he was. *It's a huge red flag for me and he is insisting I shouldn't see it as a red flag at all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are absolutely right to be viewing that as a red flag. In my situation, I would address his emotional stuff about every 3 months, by saying, "I am extremely unhappy...I can't take it anymore, you need to get help, I can't keep doing this." He would change for long enough for him to be comfortable that he had us back, and he would go back to the way he was. I did that with him for 15 years. It never changed for more than a short spell, and I wasted all that time, and endured all that pain...it got me nowhere, other than 15 years of misery.


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## Openminded

Because he wants R on his terms. 

Because permanent change is difficult. 

He may well want R as much as you do but apparently he has a different view of it and of what he's willing to do. Maybe he thinks what he's doing is enough or even more than enough. But if it's not enough for you then it won't work. And you get to make that determination -- not him. If this is the best he can do (or is willing to do) then you have your answer.


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## Begin again

As I mentioned before, my husband definitely has some confidence issues that he needs to resolve. He is taking steps and I'm proud of him for it. But I think we hit a big snag I should have anticipated.

My husband is learning to open up, to be himself more. This is good, since you really can't love someone else if you don't love yourself. Unfortunately, he now has let me into his heart much too quickly. He's almost like a teenage boy who has a crush and doesn't know what to do. The situation could go badly, as no woman is attracted to that and I definitely was looking for a man who is more confident. What a pickle! He has a ways to go before he gains the confidence he needs. 

I'm afraid he's going to get very hurt. When I tried to get him to just let us be friends, saying he needs to work on himself without me in the picture, but he pushed back. He wants it all with me. I'm not sure what to do!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre*

It doesn't sound like you build him up much, lots of negative criticism. Maybe that's where some of the insecurity is stemming from, just being honest.


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## Begin again

*Deidre* said:


> It doesn't sound like you build him up much, lots of negative criticism. Maybe that's where some of the insecurity is stemming from, just being honest.


He's been this way since he was a teen and i met him when he was 34.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre*

So you married him knowing this, but hoped he'd change after marriage?


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## Begin again

*Deidre* said:


> So you married him knowing this, but hoped he'd change after marriage?


I didn't understand it back then. He always acted distant and somewhat stoic. He behaved as if he was an island, didn't need connection. So, the answer is I had some idea. What I didn't consider is just how far he has to go. But from your responses I take it that you are saying I made my bed, knew this all along, and it's my fault I'm here. In a way, I think you are right. I'm just trying to do the right thing with the next steps.

To clarify: his insecurity came out when we had to work on problems together. Any issue I had with the marriage he took personally and reacted in ways that eroded us. Not that I was some Saint - I grew more and more aggressive and resentful as our problems grew in size due to being unaddressed. From his side, he avoided/went passive aggressive/ responded with "you do it too" kind of thing. All very counterproductive to finding a resolution. Often times we could argue for hours and never discuss the actual problem. We would discuss all the symptoms, but the problem would go unaddressed. That was his insecurity. He couldn't be honest and I was brutally honest. Neither was healthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again

Regarding our current situation, I just did something that I said I would not, and that is offer advice to my husband. Specifically, I gave him a link to the Married Man's Sex Life Primer book. I think it could help us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre*

Begin again said:


> I didn't understand it back then. He always acted distant and somewhat stoic. He behaved as if he was an island, didn't need connection. So, the answer is I had some idea. What I didn't consider is just how far he has to go. But from your responses I take it that you are saying I made my bed, knew this all along, and it's my fault I'm here. In a way, I think you are right. I'm just trying to do the right thing with the next steps.
> 
> To clarify: his insecurity came out when we had to work on problems together. Any issue I had with the marriage he took personally and reacted in ways that eroded us. Not that I was some Saint - I grew more and more aggressive and resentful as our problems grew in size due to being unaddressed. From his side, he avoided/went passive aggressive/ responded with "you do it too" kind of thing. All very counterproductive to finding a resolution. Often times we could argue for hours and never discuss the actual problem. We would discuss all the symptoms, but the problem would go unaddressed. That was his insecurity. He couldn't be honest and I was brutally honest. Neither was healthy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like it's a case of simply not being compatible. You both could argue until the end of time, he will still be who he is and you will still want him to be something he isn't. And never will be. It's not your fault, but I just don't see you both as compatible.

Just a side note, that if you keep telling someone all the wrong things they're doing, over and over...it really can be a downer. I don't see your husband as 'wrong,' I just see him as wrong for you, honestly.


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