# Really screwed about sex after being cheated on



## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm stressing a lot about the sex life I had with my wife of 6 years who cheated on me and left me for someone else. Maybe I'm searching for validation with this thread, some sense that our sex life was not deficient, and that I will be able to have sex again w/out wondering if I'm inadequate.

I've been forced to look back at our sex life and ask myself was it a good one? I always thought it was, she always said it was, and the physical chemistry definitely was great. We couldn't keep our hands off each other at first. However, we didn't get that creative past our first 2 years together. We had children fairly quickly and that consumed a lot of our time and energy. We were more inventive before we had kids. Is it normal for sex to taper off with young kids? We were down to 1-2 times a week, and it was almost always sex on the bed, about 5-6 positions, both did oral, always climaxed together. 

So, what am I wondering? I guess I'm wondering is how do you measure the quality of your sex life? Neither of us is shy outside the bedroom and I figured we were doing fine in the bedroom. Now I wonder if we weren't as creative as the average couple or as good at communication. We never made a sex tape, used a sex toy, talked real dirty, got rough (hitting, hair pulling, nails in the back), or other stuff I've seen listed here. We had good physical, emotionally close sex. I never felt restricted during sex - I kind of did what I felt right doing, and thought she did the same. I thought we were happy.

Again, I used to think our communication about sex was good, but when I read posts here I don't think we were truly intimate. Were we just lame? In hindsight I guess we didn't talk about sex very much. If there was stuff either of us wanted to change in our sex lives, we didn't bring it up We didn't analyze our sex or talk much about it outside the time we were having it. I admit I would masturbate to porn once in a while as an outlet for novelty/variety, and my wife knew it and figured most guys did that. (In hindsight, I see that porn took energy away from our sex life). She didn't bring up her fantasies until the other guy arrived on the scene. Briefly prior to her starting her affair, she again enacted some fantasies with me (strip tease, roleplay, etc.) a few times. I loved it. 

Meanwhile I have to deal with the thoughts of my soon to be ex having done better or wilder sex with another man. This is literally killing me from the inside, and is f'ing up how I even think about sex. Not only is the woman I trusted and loved now physical with someone else, I will never be physical with her again and cannot explore with her how I thought we would over time. 

I'm really sure how to heal from this. I feel like a chump for even bringing all this stuff up but I'm pretty much living a nightmare right now. In some ways I would like to talk to my ex about this, but clearly that could cause me more pain. She did say I was a good lover and left it at that. But I'm just full of regrets for not concentrating more on our lovemaking and sex life.

I know it's a lot - all thoughts welcome.

PS - I'm late thirties; she's mid thirties


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your life and your self-respect can come from no woman. Whether you are "adequate" or not depends entirely on who answers the question. I've been a magnificent lover and a lousy one. I didn't change, it was just whether the question was answered by someone who thought highly of me or someone who thought poorly of me. If you weren't her cup of tea, piss on her. Her cheating says more about her character than about your prowess. Whoever she ended up with has one head, two arms, two legs, a butt, and a penis. I expect you are similarly arranged. Odds are very good that she'll be cheating on Mr. Wonderful in the near future. Dogs don't chase cars because they drive so well but because they are dogs and they just enjoy the chase.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Cheating isn't about the sex being lacking at home. If a cheater says that's the case, they're lying, unless they're a guy and their wife refused to put out.

I know it's hard, but you'll drive yourself batty thinking this way. The KIND of sex she had doesn't matter. The FACT she had it is what matters. Period.

Also, even if you were the world greatest or worst lover with her, that means nothing when it comes to another relationship. When you have a great marriage you have great sex. It really IS that simple. When you meet someone else, what THEY think of your sexual prowess will not be the same as what your ex thinks/thought. And when you get married again, concentrate on your marriage as a whole, not just on the sex. Even though I know it's most mens number one need in marriage. Just make sure you marry someone who KNOWS that too


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Yeah, I'll third the sentiments expressed here. You might have been too little lover for your ex, and you're certainly too much lover for my wife.

What is the adequacy of one lover f***ing is as impossible to answer as the old koan about one hand clapping.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

For sure, I hear you. Thank you. Good marriage leads to good sex and vice versa. It's just that I've basically been rejected and stripped of my manhood - or at least how it feels. She made a comment to me that I was too gentle (this surprised me) and that the OM was rougher (puke - I didn't need to hear taht - STFU!). So now I've got to feel that she's been take away by some 'take charge' kind of guy and I'm some Melvin who must now shrink into the background. I did kick this guy's ass for primal justice but he still "won". I would like to go wipe him off the planet but what purpose does it serve at this point?

Part of me just wants to bang my head against the wall. My wife is attractive, sexually enthusiastic, clever, and passionate. I feel like maybe I did not tap into what she really wanted/needed. I felt I expressed myself pretty well sexually but don't seem to have taken it to the next level like some posters here. I do feel I held back from being as dominant as I would have liked to have been. I was dominant but that's an area I would've to explored more. I think she needed this; maybe women who feel there partner 'take them' are less likely to stray? Don't know. I'm really messed up. I've never doubted myself like this before. All the fun and joy of sex has now been tainted.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

staystrong said:


> All the fun and joy of sex has now been tainted.


You mean, all the fun and joy of sex WITH HER has now been tainted. And she's the one who tainted it.

Cheaters cheat because there is something broken inside themselves. No matter what issues there may have been in your marriage, your ex chose to cheat _*instead *of dealing with those issues with her husband._ That is not your fault, not in the least. That is entirely her fault. 

And until she deals with whatever her own issues are, chances are she will screw up relationship after relationship after relationship, one way or another. 

Do not despair. You will eventually heal and regain your sense of self and confidence. 

You aren't a bad lover! She was a bad wife, a terrible wife!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Years ago, I was married to a woman I thought was beautiful and whom I felt head-over-heels in love with. My life was a daily, futile attempt to receive the same from her. She dumped me for some other guy and I felt utterly crushed. Years later, I'm remarried and still have a beautiful wife but this one loves me back. My ex has been through three or four other hapless guys, each of whom she has made miserable. What I thought was a curse (her leaving) turned out to be my greatest blessing. You made be too close to the situation and love the idea of what you'd like her to be more than you actually love what she truly is. A great partner makes you feel you can do anything. She makes you feel more of a man, not less. There are over 150 million females in the United States, alone.
Life is too sacred and too short to waste pining over the wrong one.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

After having kids, sex 1 - 2 times each week is normal . You were lucky to have that much sex!!! So that's good.

If she was missing something, she should of communicated it with you, you both would of worked on it, no affair and no divorce. But she didn't communicate with you..........her fault this all happened and not yours.

What I've learned here is most women like their men to be more alpha male. Make the decisions, be decisive, never I don't know or it doesn't matter, etc., never asking to help her with chores or anything, randomly surprising her with flowers, cards, but never for sex or after a fight. You would be the captain and she would be the first mate. Never begging for sex. You get the idea.

You will find someone else that will appreciate you for you. Don't sweat it.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

norajane said:


> You mean, all the fun and joy of sex WITH HER has now been tainted. And she's the one who tainted it.
> 
> Cheaters cheat because there is something broken inside themselves. No matter what issues there may have been in your marriage, your ex chose to cheat _*instead *of dealing with those issues with her husband._ That is not your fault, not in the least. That is entirely her fault.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup: I agree with everything Mrs. Jane said above.

Mr. OP, I hope this bad experience does not allow you to become bitter towards women. There are good women out there. I hope you'll find happiness.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

I am sorry this happened to you. I think men tend to cheat when they aren't satisfied with their sex lives. Women tend to cheat for emotional reasons. Chances are your sex life had nothing to do with her cheating.


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## happysnappy (Jan 8, 2013)

*Really F'ed up about sex after being cheated on*

I'm in agreement with curly sue. Women generally wouldn't cheat for purely physical reasons. More likely emotional needs not being met. This does not excuse the behavior.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

StayStrong, my heart goes out to you! I cringe when I hear men and women beat themselves up because of what someone has done to them. Questioning themselves, doubting their own reality... There is little good that can come of that. Some perspective is good, but you seem to be stuck in analyze mode and that's not good for you. 

Ive had a lousy marriage and lousy sex life, had a so so marriage and lousy sex life, had a lousy marriage and good sex life, lousy marriage and great sex life, now I have a good-working it's way to great- marriage and a effing awesome sex life... All with the same man!

Kids destroy romance. Kids separate focus from the relationship to the family, and that's the way it has to be for a short time. There are very few, if any marriages with school age kids and a great sex life! In fact, I only know of one, and it wasn't mine!

I got pregnant 3 months after we got married. We had NO time to be a couple before we became parents.

In caring for our kids, I ignored him, he ignored me and we drifted. Either one of us could have easily had an affair, leaving the other to brood, just as you are currently doing. 

From all that your describe, it sounds like you and your wife had an enviable sex life, especially considering you had kids. Perhaps you two didn't have enough time for you to explore all that you had hoped to, but that doesn't mean, in any respect, that your sexual touches, your emotional connection, your ability to please a woman in bed is at all lacking.

For some people, the emotional connection is vital to great sex. Ive been without that for so long Ive learned to have great sex without it. But one day I will have great sex with a great emotional connection!

Also, put some perspective on what you read here in the sex section. Those of us here either really really dig sex, or really really WANT to dig sex. You won't find too many average joes here. This forum section is not representative of a random cross sample, so take all this with a grain of salt as you compare.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks everyone.  I woke up to your posts this morning and got a welcome dose of reality and relief. I will need to revisit the next time I go in a funk.

Anon Pink - that's a good post. Solid analysis.

I'm still pretty wounded even 7 months after discovery. The thought of her liking sex more with this guy than me really hurts my male ego. Obviously if she is in love with the guy than it's going to be great for her. For me, having sex with the mother of my children was all the turn on I needed, I would have figured her having sex with the father of her kids was as well. 

I don't think cheaters understand the devastating effect they have on their betrayed partners. It's a total mind F. And yes, they have you second guessing everything, even your basic ability to love or be a lover.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

After reading more on this site, I'm starting to wonder about loss of attraction. Thinking back, my wife did hit a point where she stopped being as affectionate to me as I was to her. She stopped sitting close to me on the couch, less initiating kissing, less flirtation on her part. Less.. sweetness. And I like sweetness. I think she started to feel disappointed in our relationship or we had built up resentments between the two of us. Hmm, I hadn't really thought about the lack of daily affection thing until reading some posts in this area of forum. It's possible she had fallen out of love and I didn't even know it.

Young kids do put a romance on hold it seems, unless you are highly conscious about it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes, it does sound like she was drifting. I personally think drifting is more common than not and it is the rare couples who stay so in tuned that they see the drift well before it becomes a problem. I Think it's more common that indifference sneaks in the door as romance get pushed further and further on the bottom of the list. My oldst is 26 and thinking back through all those years in grade school, I saw very few couples who appeared to romance each other and a lot more couples who drifted far enough away to cover more and more bases as their lives became so hectic.

BUT, she cheated without even working on the marriage. She is doomed to make that same mistake over and over. You, on the other hand, will always be ready to deal the little problems that crop up and this will make the next Mrs. Strong one lucky girl indeed!


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Staystrong

My condolences on the demise of your marriage. I can relate to where you're coming from. I went through much the same thought process when my wife left me for another man. My self confidence plummeted. My head was telling me it wasn't about my deficiencies but my insecurity was telling me it was. 

I'm sure just as it was in my case in your case it's got nothing to do with you. If your wife had been a good spouse she would have brought any concerns about you to you long before considering taking up with someone else. She would have worked with you to make your relationship what she now claims she wanted it to be. In the end she was the one who was deficient...in integrity. 

So live up to your namesake and think positive thoughts about yourself. You are who you are and did nothing to be ashamed of. It will get better with time.

Take care,


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I'm stressing a lot about the sex life I had with my wife of 6 years who cheated on me and left me for someone else. Maybe I'm searching for validation with this thread, some sense that our sex life was not deficient, and that I will be able to have sex again w/out wondering if I'm inadequate.
> 
> I've been forced to look back at our sex life and ask myself was it a good one? I always thought it was, she always said it was, and the physical chemistry definitely was great. We couldn't keep our hands off each other at first. However, we didn't get that creative past our first 2 years together. We had children fairly quickly and that consumed a lot of our time and energy. We were more inventive before we had kids. Is it normal for sex to taper off with young kids? We were down to 1-2 times a week, and it was almost always sex on the bed, about 5-6 positions, both did oral, always climaxed together.
> 
> ...


First, let me say I'm sorry for what you are going through. I know what it's like to be in your boat pretty much.

I'm a professed recovering chump myself. My ex-wife cheated on me, both emotionally and I'm pretty sure physically, many, many times. I caught her several times, and one time I caught her she was involved in approximately 12 EA's through e-mail at the same time. 

I left her, which is different than your situation, but I also had it happen so many times to me that I was just destroyed emotionally and had as much security as a hayfield in a tornado. I was a wreck.

Feeling how you are is normal. It's to be expected. You will replay and relive those images you put in your head of your ex-wife and the other man for days, weeks, months, maybe even years. Like a scar, it's something permanently imprinted on your mind and will never truly go away.

But don't doubt yourself. Don't forget, there were two people in this marriage, and she was the other person. She could have come to you with any problems she had. If you had problems, you would have come to her, she owed you the same. She owed it to you to work on any problems your marriage had, sex included. She also promised to be faithful and true to only you, and share herself with no one else. She broke those promises, those vows, not you.

As others have said, the affair likely didn't result strictly from sex. Maybe she got to know this guy for other reasons, like he communicated better with her and as a result it led to something more. That happens often. 

All you can do is what I did. Ignore that aspect of your life for a while as best you can. Yes, you will dwell on it, it's only natural, but as best you can push it to the back of your mind for a while. Try to focus on getting the rest of your life in order. Get your financial details sorted out, get a lawyer involved on your behalf for divorce proceedings, and try to delve into work. 

In time, maybe in a few months, maybe longer, you'll be able to think about what has happened with less emotion and more rational thought. You won't feel the need to beat yourself up, to blame yourself, and then you can discuss with yourself what really happened in the marriage. Be open and honest with yourself, and if there was something you know you could have done better without compromising yourself or who you are, admit it and use it to better yourself in the future. Use that knowledge when selecting a new partner.

And don't let what your wife did impact on your new partner. It's not her fault that your wife cheated on you. Blame your wife and hold her accountable. She made a conscious choice to be with another man. She wasn't forced, she wasn't tricked, and she chose to do that. She has to own up to and deal with her choices, not anyone else.

It will get better. I'm not sure how long you've been dealing with this, but I know for me, it took six months to even hit rock bottom and I'd say about 2 years before I really recovered enough to say I was 'over it'. The anger remains, the bitterness, but that will always be there. Recovering from emotional pain is the same as recovering from a broken arm or a twisted knee; it takes time to heal. One thing that helps is occupying your time with something, especially in the evening. Hang out with friends or get a hobby if you can.

I wish you all the best, I know it's not a good place right now, but trust me, it will get better. The fact you blame yourself more than her is actually a good trait, it shows you are a caring person who cares about others over himself. You are worthy of having someone good in your life and someone who will treat you well. In the end, this could turn out to be a very painful blessing, as you could find someone who appreciates you and treats you better than your ex-wife. It worked out that way for me.

God bless you, and if you need to talk more, feel free to PM me or post here.


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## Sunshine1234 (Aug 20, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I'm stressing a lot about the sex life I had with my wife of 6 years who cheated on me and left me for someone else. Maybe I'm searching for validation with this thread, some sense that our sex life was not deficient, and that I will be able to have sex again w/out wondering if I'm inadequate.
> 
> I've been forced to look back at our sex life and ask myself was it a good one? I always thought it was, she always said it was, and the physical chemistry definitely was great. We couldn't keep our hands off each other at first. However, we didn't get that creative past our first 2 years together. We had children fairly quickly and that consumed a lot of our time and energy. We were more inventive before we had kids. Is it normal for sex to taper off with young kids? We were down to 1-2 times a week, and it was almost always sex on the bed, about 5-6 positions, both did oral, always climaxed together.
> 
> ...



It is very brave of you to on come here and admit how you are feeling. But it seems to be a normal response for the man who was cheated on to question/blame/feel insecure about the sex life. Did she ever say she left because of sex? To me, this thought process of blaming it on the sex is a good example of men are from Mars women are from Venus.

I have never met and could not even fathom any woman, a mother, who was having sex, orgasms 1-2 times a week, leaving her husband/a father because of sex. Women do not have sex for the same reasons men do and there is no way on earth any woman (unless she was an addict) would break up her family over this.

Just from what you wrote, I can tell you that many women would love to have you as their lover. This had nothing to do with you in bed. Maybe your wife found a soul connection with this guy. Ive met/had men who can wrap women around their fingers. and some people are just cheaters and it has little to do with you. For many cheaters, cheating is in their blood.

I'm sorry your wife did this to you but you need to stand up, brush yourself off and never look back.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Sunshine1234 said:


> It is very brave of you to on come here and admit how you are feeling. But it seems to be a normal response for the man who was cheated on to question/blame/feel insecure about the sex life. Did she ever say she left because of sex? To me, this thought process of blaming it on the sex is a good example of men are from Mars women are from Venus.
> 
> I have never met and could not even fathom any woman, a mother, who was having sex, orgasms 1-2 times a week, leaving her husband/a father because of sex. Women do not have sex for the same reasons men do and there is no way on earth any woman (unless she was an addict) would break up her family over this.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::iagree: I second everything Mr. Sunshine said.


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## Sunshine1234 (Aug 20, 2012)

john_lord_b3 said:


> :smthumbup::iagree: I second everything Mr. Sunshine said.


Whaaa? It's Ms. Sunshine, John lord. I am all woman


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Sunshine1234 said:


> Whaaa? It's Ms. Sunshine, John lord. I am all woman


 oww, my sincerest apology, Ms. Sunshine *bowing*


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I don't believe that in the majority of cases the cheating has anything to do with the third party. It's not that that person is better or they have more of a connection. 

I think it's more often about the person who cheats being unhappy. Not wanting to take responsibility for their unhappiness they project it onto their spouse. As in, "If only my spouse was more this or more that then I would be happy". The reality is the inability to be happy is coming from inside..not external influences. 

The third party is simply the greener grass on the other side of the fence.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I don't believe that in the majority of cases the cheating has anything to do with the third party. It's not that that person is better or they have more of a connection.
> 
> I think it's more often about the person who cheats being unhappy. Not wanting to take responsibility for their unhappiness they project it onto their spouse. As in, "If only my spouse was more this or more that then I would be happy". The reality is the inability to be happy is coming from inside..not external influences.
> 
> The third party is simply the greener grass on the other side of the fence.


For the most part I agree, but that 'greener grass' is something the cheater feels he/she needs in their life so badly that they'll risk everything (or at least the relationship) to get it. So it is about what the other person has to offer as well.

I still blame the cheater largely, as at the very least they owe it to their partner to walk away from the relationship rather than cheat, but we can't ignore the fact the other person does provide something that the cheater feels a demonstrated need to obtain. Often, sex either evolves from the feelings he/she gets from what that other person brings, or sex is used to get what that other person brings.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

*Really F'ed up about sex after being cheated on*

OP I understand your despair. My wife cheated me many times. It was VERY hard for a year and 1/2. To deal with. No worries you will become the man you were before her cheating. She will come to hate what she has done, sooner or later. Don't beat yourself up more than she already has beaten you. You will recover. You will be a strong man again. Hold on for the ride its not easy or short but it's worth it in the end.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> but we can't ignore the fact the other person does provide something that the cheater feels a demonstrated need to obtain.


I don't believe that's necessarily true. I think the cheater believes that person will provide something their spouse doesn't. Whether they do or not is a different matter altogether, particularly in the long term.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Often, sex either evolves from the feelings he/she gets from what that other person brings, or sex is used to get what that other person brings.


And at least sometimes sex is PRECISELY what the other person brings.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If someone robs a bank, the bank doesn't ask what they did to deserve it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

staystrong said:


> Part of me just wants to bang my head against the wall. My wife is attractive, sexually enthusiastic, clever, and passionate. I feel like maybe I did not tap into what she really wanted/needed. I felt I expressed myself pretty well sexually but don't seem to have taken it to the next level like some posters here.
> 
> I do feel I held back from being as dominant as I would have liked to have been. I was dominant but that's an area I would've to explored more. I think she needed this; maybe women who feel there partner 'take them' are less likely to stray? Don't know. I'm really messed up. I've never doubted myself like this before. All the fun and joy of sex has now been tainted.


You know what, don't blame yourself for this... reading your story almost makes me angry







... First let me say... OUR sex life was WAYYYYYYY More TAME and vanilla than yours... and BOTH of us were fully satisfied... 

Any woman who is that Damn FREE in the bedroom had plenty of opportunity to open up to you..and get more creative herself bringing you along for the ride... I came to this website trying to UP my husbands dominance.. it was my 1st threads here.. never for a moment would I go running into the arms of some ALPHA male - cheating on my husband.... a good woman is not going to do that... she will help her man understand what she needs...and do her homework to get them both there....

She will work with him, strive with him... get more creative herself... 

What happened speaks more of *her character* than anything else.... you sound like a wonderful giving man who would make many woman happy..and very much in the bedroom. 

I have to agree with Mr Sunshines insights as well >> 



> *Sunshine1234 said:* Just from what you wrote, I can tell you that many women would love to have you as their lover. This had nothing to do with you in bed. Maybe your wife found a soul connection with this guy. Ive met/had men who can wrap women around their fingers. and some people are just cheaters and it has little to do with you. For many cheaters, cheating is in their blood.
> 
> I'm sorry your wife did this to you but you need to stand up, brush yourself off and never look back.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I don't believe that's necessarily true. I think the cheater believes that person will provide something their spouse doesn't. Whether they do or not is a different matter altogether, particularly in the long term.


Agreed. Essentially perception is reality. That other person doesn't have to provide somthing, the cheater just has to beleive they do.



Cletus said:


> And at least sometimes sex is PRECISELY what the other person brings.


Oh of course, but I think we can agree that largely a spouse doesn't cheat just to have sex, but rather something else was a driving force that led to a relationship that resulted in cheating.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Oh of course, but I think we can agree that largely a spouse doesn't cheat just to have sex, but rather something else was a driving force that led to a relationship that resulted in cheating.


Not for the no sex/undersexed crowd. Sometimes, and I certainly don't know how often, it's the only real problem in the relationship.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Not for the no sex/undersexed crowd. Sometimes, and I certainly don't know how often, it's the only real problem in the relationship.


But my point is that there is an underlying reason for the no/low sex relationship. For example, if my wife cut off all sex with me for years because she was raped and traumatized, is the problem really that I need sex, hence for I go and have an affair?

No, the problem is that my wife was sexually abused and traumatized, and as a by-product of that problem she's not willing to have sex anymore. The lack of sex isn't the problem, it's a symptom of the problem.

That's the point I was trying to make earlier anyways.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> But my point is that there is an underlying reason for the no/low sex relationship. For example, if my wife cut off all sex with me for years because she was raped and traumatized, is the problem really that I need sex, hence for I go and have an affair?
> 
> No, the problem is that my wife was sexually abused and traumatized, and as a by-product of that problem she's not willing to have sex anymore. The lack of sex isn't the problem, it's a symptom of the problem.
> 
> That's the point I was trying to make earlier anyways.


I know, but I'm still not agreeing. 

If your wife only wants sex twice a month because that's just her baseline, I guess you can split hairs and say that sex isn't the issue, it's the unwillingness to compromise. Me? I still say sex is the issue.

I know that you know that there are plenty of people in utterly sexually disparate relationships where there isn't any underlying trauma or other marital issue other than the quantity or quality of the sex.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I know, but I'm still not agreeing.
> 
> If your wife only wants sex twice a month because that's just her baseline, I guess you can split hairs and say that sex isn't the issue, it's the unwillingness to compromise. Me? I still say sex is the issue.
> 
> I know that you know that there are plenty of people in utterly sexually disparate relationships where there isn't any underlying trauma or other marital issue other than the quantity or quality of the sex.


Maybe. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one Cletus. I respect you on these boards to much to argue back and forth over what is really a trivial matter. Regardless of the cause I think we can all agree that cheating is wrong outside of some very rare, one in a million type scenarios which at times pop up on these boards. And even then, not always.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Thank you all for your responses.

I'm at DDay plus seven months. I feel I have hit several rock bottoms, with a lot of suicidal thoughts (I started medication last week and hope it will help).

I have analyzed this affair over and over again. I think it was a slippery slope emotional affair turned into a physical affair. Ladies, I think you are right that women tend to focus less on the sex but my wife is a fan of sex (who isn't?) and I'm sure lived that part up. That excitement drives the affair. Part of me just thinks she is a ***** now, (sorry) though I know this is a narrow way of thinking (very judgemental), but it is what I am left with. It is painful to think this way of the mother of your children.

My wife and her affair partner do have a common bond in that they both play music, and now they do so together. For them, I suppose that soulmate idea is there, but my wife and I had that too so what does it really mean? Maybe she had more in common with him and they clicked on things important to her, but hey it is new romance so that's often the case. I think it would have to be something deep for a women to break up her family and strand her husband in a foreign country with friends or family.

I do realize, as one poster commented, that I will carry around for a long long time. It's pretty much shattered my trust in the world, and changed my concept of what love is. 

I have no desire to be seductive with another woman. The thought of it makes me think of my wife seducing or being seduced. When I see romantic things on TV, I think about THEM making love, not me. You can see it has made me obsessive. It's a serious deal, though. My wife had sex with this man in our home and even moved him in to our home when we separated and I was out of the country. I used to be a man she admired, and now look at how she cut me down. 

I just hope I can be with someone some day and not have this past of mine lingering in my head. Her betrayal has taken the fun, joy and innocence out of sex. Imagine now if I want to talk dirty, it may trigger all the thoughts of illicit sex they were having. I just want to erase this from my mind and find a good woman who won't wrong me.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Thank you all for your responses.
> 
> I'm at DDay plus seven months. I feel I have hit several rock bottoms, with a lot of suicidal thoughts (I started medication last week and hope it will help).
> 
> ...


Regarding the bolded, I'll be perfectly honest with you. It likely will never happen.

But that can be ok. As long as you don't dwell on it, it even can be a good thing. We learn from what hurts us, and this hurt you. A lot. So when you eventually move on enough to find someone else, this will be in the back of your head, and you'll be asking all those questions. How can I trust you? Who are you hanging around with? Where are you? Why is it taking so long to go to the store? 

I know because that's what I did. And I'll be honest, I still do it. It's paranoia. I am going away on a business trip for four days next week, and my fiancee will be at home. I KNOW she's 100% faithful to me, yet I still get that panic switch going off in the back of my head screaming "WHAT IF....!"

The key I found is two things. Firstly, I pushed very hard for open communication. And I mean open. If I need to check up on her (which I rarely do) I have access to her e-mail, facebook, phone, etc. She knows I need this because of what happened. I may "check up on her" once or twice a year, but every now and then I feel that overwhelm need to check. And thena fterwards I feel bad because I knew she wasn't up to anything, yet it's like a compulsion. So that openness really made things easier for me (and yes, it goes both ways. I've given her every password I have).

The second thing was that I had to admit to myself that my fiancee isn't my ex-wife and she didn't do those things to me, so it's not fair that she should have to pay for them. So while I do demand open access to e-mail, etc. if I should want it, that's as far as I go. I don't demand to know where she's going, I don't tell her she can't talk to men, I don't study her like a hawk. She deserves what she's earned, and so far she's earned my trust. In my previous marriage, I paid for a lot of the crimes past men did to my ex-wife, and I hated it. So I didn't want to repeat that mistake with my now fiancee.

You'll never push aside an affair. It's like a death in the family. You'll move on, you'll have happy times again, but your family will never feel 100% complete ever again, because that person is gone forever. That little piece of your heart and soul that was ripped out by this is gone forever too. But your heart still beats, is still capable of love, and still wants to share itself with someone else. Embrace that, learn from what you ahve gone through, and do the best you can.

And it's ok to think of the mother of your children as a ***** too. She is many things. She is the mother of your children, she is your ex-wife, she is a musicain, and she is a *****. She cheated on you man and left you in another country while she moved a new guy in. If that happened to anyone else you'd say she was a *****, so if the shoe fits, let her wear it. You don't have to tell your children she's a ***** (and I'd recommend not doing that).

Move on when you are ready, and please, take care of yourself. The suicide thoughts are normal, but please, do not act on them. You sound like a really good guy, you're robbing yourself of a great future, a woman of a good husband and your children of a good father if you do. Be strong, it will get easier. And you'll find someone who will make life worthwhile. Don't let her rob you of that too.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks Kingsfan.

It sounds like you've been through a lot.

For me, I just want the pain to end. If it's never happened to someone, they don't understand. 

I'm not looking forward to the paranoia you described. Life used to be bright and shiny - the world, my world at least - was fine and good. I'm not sure how people cope with this. The pain cuts deep.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Thanks Kingsfan.
> 
> It sounds like you've been through a lot.
> 
> ...


The pain doesn't go 100% away, but much of it does. The rest that remains dulls itself out over time. Like I said, it's like any other traumatic event in your life, you will carry it around forever. 

And the paranoia sucks a lot, but I've managed to cope with it and it doesn't really impact me a lot. I am with someone who is a homebody, just like me, and she actually wants to do stuff with me and go places with me, so we are together about 17 hours a day, with work being the only time apart (and I even spend lunch hours with her). So that really helps. Hard to fear being cheated on when your partner is two feet away from you on the couch.

If you find someone who is into the same things you are, wants to spend time with you, understands what you went through, and is willing to make some compromises to help reassure you that they won't/aren't doing the same thing your ex did, then it helps a lot. I know I could date someone who likes to aprty all the time, is out until 2 AM, goes out of town for days or weeks at a time and I can't check up on if I feel insecure or the need to. My mind would be racing, and that's not a good thing.

Judging by what you have written, I suspect your mind races a lot too, going to those dark places where you wonder what happened with your ex-wife. It's not easy to just change that mindset when you start dating someone new, so you're mind will start going there about her too. The less your mind has to race, the better.

It does get better, and more manageable. you'll eventually get over your ex-wife completely, it takes time. moving on will help that, but not until you are ready to do so. But it will come.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Staystrong, CHEATERS DO NOT CARE! You are twisting your head around someone that would put you in jail if it fit there needs.

I know, I know, you still love your ex-wife (I HOPE SHE IS YOUR EX!)
the problem is, the ex wife that you love is gone, I mean like Star Trek gone!

The thing that is there now, is NOT you ex wife that you married and had babies with. Really, she is not the same person at all.

I am sorry that you are here but this is the best group of people that I have had the honor to listen to? in fifty six years. You can learn a lot from there lives and wisdom.

One more thing, This is your life, not you and your wife's life. Just your life. You will get pushed down in life, it's how you get up and continue living your life that matters. Just my 2 cents


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I've stopped trying to understand it all.

Just trying to think straight and feel normal again.

I should add that perhaps the cheating was bound to happen. Seven year itch, we're not doing any dates, I let myself go a little bit, etc. 

Soooo ... to all you nice people who say it was all her choice, yes it was. But I have to look at the circumstances and accept my blames. It's funny, I've learned so much from this experience on how to maintain attractiveness, but now I have no way of testing it out with her. It's one of those crying shames of life.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> If someone robs a bank, the bank doesn't ask what they did to deserve it.


This should be a sticky.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

staystrong said:


> I've stopped trying to understand it all.
> 
> Just trying to think straight and feel normal again.
> 
> ...


I call BULLPUCKY.

You're still willing to take WAY too much blame here.

There are two components at play. The first is the fact your wife cheated. And the second is the state your marriage was in. TWO SEPARATE THINGS. Start thinking that way.

When someone's marriage sucks, they have 4 choices.
1. do nothing
2. work on things
3. cheat
4. divorce

So your marriage sucked. What did YOU do about it? Mine sucked, royally. I chose number 1. My hubby chose number 3. Notice that word - CHOSE. He CHOSE to cheat. He didn't choose number 2. Or even 1 or 4. The LEAST he could have had the decency to do was divorce me before he stuck his penis in another womans mouth. but he didn't. He CHOSE not to. Same way your wife made that choice to cheat. And that choice is 100%, completely and utterly on THEM. Not you and not me. THEM.

The choice YOU made is all on you, but that has nothing to do with her cheating. That has to do with you. I chose to do nothing about my crappy marriage. That's all on me. But that's as far as it goes. That doesn't excuse what my hubby did in the least.

It's actually rather egotistical for people to think that they have so much influence over their spouse that them cheating was a result of their actions, if you think about it.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I didn't perceive my marriage as crappy.

I just think it's ignorant for us BS's to look at those four choices and say they are equal choices. They are not. Choice 1 takes no effort. Choice 2 takes effort and is not always a pleasurable pursuit. Choice 3 is the easier choice for many people because it involves pleasure. Choice 4 requires a lot of thought and effort and is rarely pleasurable. 

Basically, I now tend to think people will take the path of least resistance. In your case, Choice 1 and Choice 3. Same in my case. It's not until the A is discovered that Choice 2 and 4 usually come into play.

My wife spent time with another man, her music teacher. I failed as an H to "follow up" on this guy, mainly because I knew he was married and I didn't perceive him as a threat. He didn't seem like my wife's type physically. Through TAM I have learned how easy it is for women and men to get seduced or ease into an EA because then like the new attention. Many people lack boundaries, and they like the tingle they get in anticipation of the next contact. It's all scripted. Basically, I neglected to mind my wife's business and keep tabs on the time she spent with another man even if it was in a professional capacity.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The only reason you didn't perceive your marriage as crappy was because you didn't think about it. "Seven year itch, we're not doing any dates, I let myself go a little bit, etc. " doesn't sound great to me. What you did was choose not to work on your marriage, period.

And no one said the four choices were equal. :scratchhead: Of course people take the path of least resistance. That's human nature.

So you did what 99% of married people do - you failed to keep tabs on your spouse. And for that, you think you should take blame for her cheating?? Seriously?

Dude, I am done trying to convince you. If you're determined to take the blame, I wash my hands of it. But you won't find peace that way, which is what I thought you wanted.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

You're right, I didn't think about it. 

No, I don't blame myself for her cheating, I just have regrets. There's a difference.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

staystrong said:


> I've stopped trying to understand it all.
> 
> Just trying to think straight and feel normal again.
> 
> ...





staystrong said:


> You're right, I didn't think about it.
> 
> No, I don't blame myself for her cheating, I just have regrets. There's a difference.


Regarding the above, a few comments.

Firstly, cheating is never bound to happen. It's not an uncontrollable freight train barreling down the line, it takes concious effort to cheat. She wasn't raped, she consented, repeatedly, to sex with another man. 

So try to strike that from your mind.

More important to your future is you take from these posts what you can do for the future. You let yourself go, as you put it, so don't do that in the future. You didn't do dates you said, so don't do that in the future. Take your future wife on dates, keep your future self in shape.

Regrets are ok, but you need to ensure they don't repeat. That's exactly what I did and what I was talking about earlier. Review your marriage for what went wrong and try to fix it for the future.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I realize I have a psychological addiction to her and I don't know how to get over it. Does anyone have techniques to share to get over this to need to be with her? People say "try being with someone else" but I'm not attracted to anyone else.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

staystrong said:


> I realize I have a psychological addiction to her and I don't know how to get over it. Does anyone have techniques to share to get over this to need to be with her? People say "try being with someone else" but I'm not attracted to anyone else.


time heals all wounds!

start doing for yourself....get in shape if your in shape get in better shape.

follow your interests pick up some hobbies . find a passion for something you like to do.

work on your people skills. get your money in order start a saving/investing plan 

go on a vacation experiance life....you might be suprised who and when a woman walks into your life. 

good luck.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

"time heals all wounds"

Even gaping shotgun holes to the psyche?

and what about the mind movies? you know, envisioning her having sex with him and her just loving it? it's hard to get that **** out of my head. It's weird. If picture them making love on a bed or whatever, it does not freak me out nearly as much as if i envision them doing naughtier stuff. I think it's this whole idea of them (during the affair) having really illicit sex and 'getting away with it' while I am the chump at home being humiliated. Her saving that type of sex for him. Any techniques for that? I still have them.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> "time heals all wounds"
> 
> Even gaping shotgun holes to the psyche?
> 
> and what about the mind movies? you know, envisioning her having sex with him and her just loving it? it's hard to get that **** out of my head. It's weird. If picture them making love on a bed or whatever, it does not freak me out nearly as much as if i envision them doing naughtier stuff. I think it's this whole idea of them (during the affair) having really illicit sex and 'getting away with it' while I am the chump at home being humiliated. Her saving that type of sex for him. Any techniques for that? I still have them.


I know you have a thread in the private section about her cheating (won't go into details here since you put it in private for a reason). But from what I gather, she is back in the house and the two of you are beginning to reconcile? 

I don't have personal experience with infidelity, but based on your last few posts, do you know for a fact that your wife had done things with her AP that she never did with you? Does that factor into the mind movies and such, or are you speculating that this is true? If you do decide to R, one of the conditions I would have on my list is that everything you did for the OM that was off limits to me is no longer off limits. If I were to ever go through infidelity like this, it would be something that I would need as part of my healing process. Otherwise, I would feel inadequate as a man if my wife did things for AP(s) that were never done for me.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Must be somebody else. My wife left for OM and lives with him now. 

Yes, I know she did a couple of things she did not do with me. But then the imagination runs wild. I know what my wife was like when we first met, so I assume she is experimenting with POSOM too. Further. 

I feel inadequate, yes. It's more that I feel more like an idiot for not have used the time I had with my wife to explore our sexual desires further. Two kids and routine can dull that if you aren't consciously working on it. We didn't have a lot of time together (one year long distance and one year living together) before we had kids so we didn't get to do everything on the list, if you know what I mean. I just thought we would over the long haul.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> Must be somebody else. My wife left for OM and lives with him now.
> 
> Yes, I know she did a couple of things she did not do with me. But then the imagination runs wild. I know what my wife was like when we first met, so I assume she is experimenting with POSOM too. Further.
> 
> I feel inadequate, yes. It's more that I feel more like an idiot for not have used the time I had with my wife to explore our sexual desires further. Two kids and routine can dull that if you aren't consciously working on it. We didn't have a lot of time together (one year long distance and one year living together) before we had kids so we didn't get to do everything on the list, if you know what I mean. I just thought we would over the long haul.


Sorry, yes it was the story of a user named StrongSad. 

But maybe that's the biggest issue you have - regret that you did not try everything that you wanted in your marriage. I have no answer for the mind movies, and I doubt your wife will ever tell you everything anyways. But I don't think you are broken. When you do get back into the dating scene, you will have learned a lot of lessons from your last marriage. You have zero blame for your XW cheating, but you do share in the quality of the marriage up to the moment she decided to cheat.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

My personal philosophy is that unless the wife is an addict, or historically promiscuous, going through a depression, or something like that then most almost always it is the man's fault she cheated. That's just my own take on it, though. 

"But maybe that's the biggest issue you have - regret that you did not try everything that you wanted in your marriage." Yes, and that our communication was not better, more open. That's one advantage the lover often gets - direct communication.


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## sweetpea (Jan 30, 2007)

Changing the name of the title of the thread without the curse word


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

staystrong said:


> *My personal philosophy is that unless the wife is an addict, or historically promiscuous, going through a depression, or something like that then most almost always it is the man's fault she cheated.* That's just my own take on it, though.


You can't justify that opinion rationally. The closest I can get to where the BS may be part of the blame for the WS cheating is if the BS was an enabler of the affair. Did you parade her around like a hot wife, allow her to go on GNO's (plus not come home at night at times), encouraged her to hang out with guy friends, anything else that could promote cheating? If so, then I say you share some of the blame as an enabling spouse. However, if not then you have zero blame for her decision to cheat.

Even if you had some traits that were less than desirable or if you did things that your wife didn't like, did she communicate her concerns to you? Did your wife talk to you about the lack of chemistry in the bedroom? Did your wife warn you that she was losing feelings for you because of A, B and C? I'm guessing she didn't do any of that. Or if she did tell you concerns, she did not emphasize the seriousness of the problems. NO ONE - male or female - should be required to be a mind reader in order to ensure that a spouse does not stray.

Therefore, I think your philosophical view on cheating sucks. It is wrong and it puts too much of a burden on the BS. If you substitute the word "cheats" with the word "beats", it should bring everything home for you:



> My personal philosophy is that unless the husband is an addict, going through a depression, or something like that then most almost always it is the woman's fault that *she is battered by her husband*. That's just my own take on it, though.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

No, I didn't do any of those enabling things. 

And no, my wife did not do any of those communication things. 

Which is why I am very perplexed. Maybe I should ask her about the bedroom issues - I don't know if she'll be truthful though. 

I feel like such an idiot, though. An abysmal failure. 

I think my wife wanted sex at a greater frequency than I did. (Or thought I did, I realize now part of that was just due to my stress). We reached a point where it was 1-2 a week, then once a week. That's just not healthy for two people in their 30's who are in decent health. Granted, we had kids ages 2 and 5, moving twice in two years and one year with lived at her mother's home, but it should have been more frequent. Maybe I became LD through lack of exercise or diet? I don't know.. I just don't want to be left if it has to do with bedroom issues. That's humiliating and it doesn't reflect the bunnies we were at the beginning of our relationship. 

At one point during our separation I said to her "You know I think we were undersexed this past year with only 1-2 times per week." She said "Two times? That's optimistic". I asked "Well had it stopped being good for you?" and she said "Well, it wasn't like I thought it was disgusting" OUCH! A couple of months later she said "You were a good lover". Well yeah, you used to love making love to me. 

I'm just so angry over this experience - it has killed my self-esteem.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

staystrong said:


> "time heals all wounds"
> 
> Even gaping shotgun holes to the psyche?
> 
> and what about the mind movies? you know, envisioning her having sex with him and her just loving it? it's hard to get that **** out of my head. It's weird. If picture them making love on a bed or whatever, it does not freak me out nearly as much as if i envision them doing naughtier stuff. I think it's this whole idea of them (during the affair) having really illicit sex and 'getting away with it' while I am the chump at home being humiliated. Her saving that type of sex for him. Any techniques for that? I still have them.


Staystrong

I don't think there's anything I can say to help you however I would like to say you're not alone. At the beginning of my seperation/divorce I experienced many of the same irrational thoughts. I spent many a night torturing myself. It was almost as though I was thinking if I mess with this emotional sore spot often enough I'll eventually build up a callous. 

In the end the only thing that resolved it was time. I no longer comtemplate her life with other men. I'm indifferent to it.


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## lovemylife (Feb 13, 2012)

The best way to get past this in to take control over that you can control. You can't control how another person behaves, what you can control is you and how you choose to go from here.

You need to focus on you and your children. Do things that are positive for you and will be helpful for you.

There is information available to help with your technical skills. I personally found Lou Paget's books to be good ones. Just exploring some of this information may in fact reassure you that you are rather skilled, boosting your confidence. If there is information that you didn't have before, you will then have it for the next time.

A relationship is a partnership, meaning both people have to work at it in order for it to work. Your willingness to work at it and learn from what doesn't work will help you to be a better partner. 

She made her choices and those choices are her responsibility.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

staystrong said:


> No, I didn't do any of those enabling things.
> 
> And no, my wife did not do any of those communication things.
> 
> ...



StayStrong, you are fixating on this small and insignificant area and you need to put this in better perspective.

Let's, just for the sake of absurdity, follow your logic and assume you totally sucked in bed.
There is NO WAY any woman would leave her husband for OM just because he sucked in bed. If her H sucked in bed, she would take steps to teach him to be better in bed, to do the kinds of things she liked. If she was repressed or too inexperienced herself to understand that sex wasn't fun because her H sucked in bed, she would totally stop be available for sex. She would turn that part of her life off completely and focus on parenting and other satisfying areas of the relationship. She will not be vulnerable to OM because she has turned OFF that part of her life.

Okay? Now let's assume you didn't suck in bed but perhaps sex became routine and she missed the excitement of spontaneity. 
If a woman, who is otherwise happy with her life and her H, misses excitement and spontaneity, she will take steps to spice it up herself. If she is met with the cold shoulder, she will begin to feel rejected and she will give signals of her unhappiness. She will stop being available for sex, as the first major signal. Arguments will happen on an increasing basis. She will pull away. Only after she pulls away and disconnects will she be vulnerable to OM.

Next, how about a woman who had been satisfied with her sex life, but lately it's been rather routine and more about maintenance than an expression of love. In all other areas, she does feel loved but the drudgery of daily life and parenting is wearing her down. She feels she's losing her youth, sees the continued path of being more and more disconnected and dissatisfied. Here is where men and women miss the connection. Here is where affairs start and here is where marriages end. Talking specifically about women and not men...

She wonders how HE can act so content when she feels like things are headed down hill. Routine sex combined with boredom and drudgery of daily life will cause an EMOTIONAL disconnect. OM comes along and she feels that old spark she once felt with H. Routine sex (though still climactic) and drudgery has already happened, but she hasn't DONE anything to change her marriage because she hasn't had the chance to reflect on the real causes yet. She's the one unhappy, H is pretty content. So it must be H's fault if she makes him happy but he's not making her happy. OM gives her that spark and attention, therefor OM must love her better than H does. AND they haven't even had sex yet. The inhibitions of stepping out on H slowly erode, as her connection with OM grows and her disconnect with H deepens. Now, add in sex with OM. It's explosive! There is no routine, there is no drudgery, no history together, it's all new and exciting. She switches loyalty to OM. *It's not that he's better at sex than H, it's that he isn't associated with routine. He isn't associated with a disproportionate amount of satisfaction. *

Meanwhile husband remains completely unaware she was ever unhappy. Meanwhile Husband is still grinding through each day, bringing home the paycheck, taking out the trash, taking care of the cars and the lawn and doing his part with the kids. Meanwhile H recognizes that yes sex has slowed down a bit but that's the way it is when raising a family and when the kids get older he and W will have more time and space to spice it up regularly.

So W has fallen in love with OM and checked out of marriage. She never wants to return to routine and drudgery and she has deluded herself into thinking it will never happen with OM.

*But we all know... It most certainly will.
*
You did not suck in bed. The routine sex life is something EVERY marriage goes through. But only stupid stupid people fail to recognize their discontent can be a stage that is temporary. Only stupid stupid people fail to gain insight on their unhappiness. Only stupid stupid people blame others, without looking within. Only stupid foolish people leave a marriage without trying to fix it first. And if she was already involved with OM when she made attempts to fix the marriage, I don't know if she did I don't know your history, those attempts were doomed to failure because *no spouse can compete with the spark of newness.*

Now stop doubting your ability to please a woman. Stop thinking she left because you didn't make her happy. She left because she failed to partner with you, she failed to include you in her thoughts and feelings. *She failed YOU!*


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

good at sex or bad at sex.....that is the question.

it takes two people who desire eachother, and want to please eachother, and who have the confidence to comunicate to eachother what they like and need for sex to be fantastic!

each and every person is responcible for their own orgasms.

some like it rough some like it gentle some like it gentle until thet are going and then want it rough.

and every which way inbetween.

that is what I find amazing ....marriage should be about giving pleasure to your man/woman it should be fun and stress frees as possible.

but all to often it ends up the exact oppisite ....for instance if you don't last very long after when your pillow talking she should say ...it felt great but I didn't orgasm .and the man would say wow I'm sorry and roll over and go to sleep...just joking the man should be man enough to say well what do you like lets try more oral or any ideas because I want to be a good lover for you. instead of her lying and saying it was great and then missing an oprutinuty to comunicate what you need.

but a word of caution ....you might want to advoid saying well maybe if you were bigger/tighter/skinny/etc. I could orgasm.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> StayStrong, you are fixating on this small and insignificant area and you need to put this in better perspective.
> 
> Let's, just for the sake of absurdity, follow your logic and assume you totally sucked in bed.
> There is NO WAY any woman would leave her husband for OM just because he sucked in bed. If her H sucked in bed, she would take steps to teach him to be better in bed, to do the kinds of things she liked. If she was repressed or too inexperienced herself to understand that sex wasn't fun because her H sucked in bed, she would totally stop be available for sex. She would turn that part of her life off completely and focus on parenting and other satisfying areas of the relationship. She will not be vulnerable to OM because she has turned OFF that part of her life.
> ...


Wow. That's some of the best analysis I've seen on TAM. 

You're absolutely right.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

staystrong said:


> Wow. That's some of the best analysis I've seen on TAM.
> 
> You're absolutely right.


LOL, I can never hear that enough!!!!


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

I would say our sex life was good and any attempts to spice it up were always welcome by either party. 

I think the difference was in drives. I like a couple of days to recuperate so that I could get all my juice back and really be into it. Sometimes we'd miss and then a couple days wold become 4 or 5 or even 6. Then we'd both be frustrated.

I liked it during the day and her more at night. I think she was aware of this. I guess I could have said "well we can go again at night" but I would have been lying because I was not a big fan of sex twice in the same day (unless on vacation, which was rare). 

Again, good analysis about drudgery routine. We had two kids, ages 2 and 5 prior to affair, and they took up a lot of energy (happy energy) and I also worked from home so I kind of zapped myself. 

But you're right. Utimately she failed me even if there was a mismatch at times due to my drive. (Which could be quite high if I was in good shape, no stress).

Will it happen with her and OM? Maybe. She only has the kids half the time now and maybe he has a higher drive. Over the long haul, sure, it could happen. Especially if the have a child. 

Thanks again


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

staystrong said:


> I would say our sex life was good and any attempts to spice it up were always welcome by either party.
> *
> I think the difference was in drives. I like a couple of days to recuperate so that I could get all my juice back and really be into it. Sometimes we'd miss and then a couple days wold become 4 or 5 or even 6. Then we'd both be frustrated.
> 
> ...


You are still doing it you know. Look at what I bolded...Thats what you have to stop doing. Now look at what I underlined...Thats all the answer you need. Had she come to you with her discontent, you no doubt would have responded. But she didn't. She failed you.

And yes, mark my words, the discontent will happen whether she has another child with OM or not. It happens in every relationship. Most people don't begin affairs just because they are going through something temporary. She is doomed to repeat her mistake, you made no mistake because you are not a mind reader.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

So your avatar? Is that what you do when you read posts like mine?



It's hard, Anon. Hard to let go of the most important person in your life, even if they've wronged you. I loved that woman. And I hate to think I caused it. Some other man taking her on dates, her thinking our life was "square" or "boring", it irks me. I would have been all of those things too had I known the urgency. As if it's my fault for not calling a babysitter and scheduling dates. Seems 50/50 to me.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Awe now what you're doing is defending your right to obsess. Yes, you do have the right, yes you do need to find the take away message. But when reflection keeps you from moving forward, from embracing a new path, that's when it's time to allow perspective to do it's job. Perspective doesn't remove the hurt, but it allows you to move on. 

Take your time but don't get stuck. Two steps forward, one step backward, two steps forward, one step back ward... Keep moving. You're doing great BTW.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

You gotta fight - for your right - to (pity) Parrrrrtayyyy! 

And what about the path to forgiveness? I'm tired of hating her.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

If you serve chocolate cake I'll come to your party!

Forgiveness... That's a whole other thread.. Reflect on that for a while and start a new thread. But make sure the hangover is gone from the pity party first!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> StayStrong, you are fixating on this small and insignificant area and you need to put this in better perspective.
> 
> Let's, just for the sake of absurdity, follow your logic and assume you totally sucked in bed.
> There is NO WAY any woman would leave her husband for OM just because he sucked in bed. If her H sucked in bed, she would take steps to teach him to be better in bed, to do the kinds of things she liked.


If she did know what she wanted and found an unwilling or incapable partner, yet still considered good sex to be a necessary component of a healthy marriage, what then? 

She would be susceptible to the interests of another man. People do not always succeed very well at sublimating important parts of their personality for the sake of their current relationships.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Okay, let's roll with that Cletus. 

"Unwilling" - she wanted to try something and I did not. I can't recall a single instance of that.

"Incapable" - meaning I was willing but not capable. Possibly, how am I to know if she's not communicating? All of her body language was saying yes that's great. Granted, I should be working on "OH YES THAT'S AMAZING!" 

Do you think it's up to her to communicated those needs/wants/fantasies or is up to me to inquire and tease them out of her? 

For example, say a woman is curious about sex toys. Is it up to the man to find out that she is?

We didn't have toys. After reading around I almost feel like a prude for not having one!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I've been away for a while, so I just started to read through this thread again today. I see I missed some of it.

Staystrong, if you are still around, I hope you are staying strong. I hope you are healing, and I hope you are holding her accountable for what she did.

Someone said you had started living with her again? If so, that is your call, but do not be afriad to ask questions. She wronged you, she should be ready for whatever questions you have in mind. You need to heal. She may as well, but she also brought this on, and as such she needs to answer the questions.

If she points out things you did wrong, take note of it. Learn from it and grow. But don't let her pin the affair on you. She had a responsibility to express those errors to you before she cheated, not use it as a crutch for her affair.

Be strong, I know it's tough. I know you will beat yourself up over it for a while yet. Just try and take some time, formulate a strategy and no matter what your heart thinks and feels afterwards, stick to that plan.

Also, go and see a counsellor. It's good to just let it all out to someone else. It is nice on these boards for sure, but talking to someone face to face is often better. As well, it may help you rebuild your self-esteem, which seems to be a bit low (though understandable).

One final word of thought. It is not the man's fault a woman cheats. It is always the cheaters fault. You may have contributed to your wife having thoughts or feelings for cheating, but she still has to consciously go from being your wife to being someone elses lover. She has to do that all on her own. She has to ignore her responsibility to you, she has to refuse to discuss this with you, she has to willingly allow another man into her life, she has to willingly allow another man into her own body. All of that was done by her. None of that you would have supported if you had known. So don't blame yourself, blame her. She did it. Hold her accountable. She'll never correct her behaviour if you accept the blame for her mistakes. If anything, you are giving her a get out of jail free card for doing it again, as she can just blame it on you again.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Staystrong …She cheated if only she communicated her wants needs and desires i.e. ruff sex being manhandled or whatever.
You would have had an opportunity to remedy this. Sorry this did not happen Live and learn move on


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