# What to do....



## StayorGoDon'tKnow (Jul 4, 2016)

D-day occurred 6/29/16…in the form of a letter to my spouse in my mailbox from the other woman. The poor girl was young and naive…couldn’t figure out that my husband never called her again because all he was looking for a one night stand while I was out of town.

I am conflicted and raw still. I don’t know whether to stay and try to work things out—-or go.

We don’t have any bio children, though there is my step son that has never known me not in his life, he was two when my husband and I began seeing each other.

We were at the happiest point our marriage has ever been when this happened……or at least I thought so.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Is this his only affair?


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## StayorGoDon'tKnow (Jul 4, 2016)

Yes, as far as I am aware. Previously he had issues with drugs----I fear this is his new addiction.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What are your requirements?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

What was his response after being caught?

At minimum, I would recommend separation. Make him "feel the same burn" that his selfishness has done "Unto You". 

A divorce is the appropriate action. Tell him to move out. Make him do all the A-Mends [Affair Mends]. Add a few Amens to the Dead-Crow-Soup that you foister on him.....his Last Supper...with you! 

Do not do a "revenge affair". Do not lower yourself to his level. These things hurt too much. You cannot paint over a bleeding scab. It will forever seep-while-you-weep.

Some Men and Women are pigs in human skin. They cannot resist clandestine Oinking....while nick-clipping someone else's Sensory Expense Account.


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## StayorGoDon'tKnow (Jul 4, 2016)

I have asked him to get STD tested, which he did. I have told him if he wants to work this out through counseling(his suggestion) than he is responsible to get it set up. I asked him to leave for a few days and he has. He is back in the home now, and keeping his distance at my request. 

I plan to have a post nuptial agreement drafted and his consent is one of my requirements.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

StayorGoDon'tKnow said:


> I don’t know whether to stay and try to work things out—-or go.


What exactly does "Work things out" actually mean? What does it look like? What are you after?

I'm not going to presumptuously tell you to stay or go, b/c only you know not only the specifics of your relationship, but also what it is you need to heal. 

So, what I will say is that you should find a really good individual therapist to help you sort this all out. I wouldn't involve him until you've gotten your head around this and decide what the answers to the questions I've posed are. Being enraged with him or outraged or hurt are all OK, but they're not the basis of any good decision, nor is it a plan of action just to "Punish" or "Burn" him.

Until you are ready to involve him in the therapy, he should be on clear notice that he is on thin ice here and needs to be very careful what and how it responds to you. Take your time, decisions liek this are best made slowly and in response to real personal awareness, not impulsiveness.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

No kids? Bail out. Run now and never look back. Cheaters don't change. At most they just polish up their act and put on a better show. Seriously, get out before kids come along and make that more difficult.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I hate to say this but it may be the "tip of the iceberg".

Demand a poly. You need to feel safe and at this point you can't.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Leave. Or have him leave. Kids will be fine. There is no need to put yourself through this ever.

I'm speaking from my own personal experience here. As a BS... If I ever had to do it again I would have dumped my WW on her AP's doorstep on DDay. Period. I had biological kids with her and they are fine. I see them all the time and we have a happy life now. I met a woman who I am much happier with. And, my cheating ex wife now has a cheating boyfriend to keep her company.

Or stick around if you like being cheated on.....


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

How long is the marriage?

How old is your step-son?

Is his biological mother in his life?

Why did your husbands first marriage end (if there was one)?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> I plan to have a post nuptial agreement drafted and his consent is one of my requirements.


Very smart move regardess if you R or D. You have an ex-drugy and now a cheater so you know that you have to look out for yourself. It is posible that you both can make the marriage work but I would never remove the Post-nup.

If you are going to R then your husband needs to be fanitical about making you number one for a very long time also he has to prove his remorse with ACTIONS for a long time. You need to find out how to forgive then follow those steps for a long time. Forgiveness takes a while but does NOT mean that all consequences vanish.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is his issue with drugs really over?

Some people who do drugs are addicted to risky behaviour like one night stands.

He can't be trusted. At the present time. Maybe never.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

StayorGo,

You are only 15 min into this DD. From my own personal experience... the affair that's caught is generally just the last affair that happened. Rarely is it a "one and done", my bad, all better now?

The big deal, you have no children with your H. R after an affair is by far the most difficult test of a marriage. Children together was the major player in myself R with my WW. I told her very clearly, if it wasn't for the children, I be gone like a freight train. 

Good luck, go slow, weigh your options carefully.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I suggest you separate for now, tell him you will go to counselling but make no promises. It would be better if you got counselling for yourself and took some space to figure out whether you actually want to be with this man. He doesn't sound very trustworthy tbh with the drugs also. It is likely this has happened before. If you are away from him, you will have time to think about what you want.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

If you want to save the marriage then don't separate, but do expose so he can feel the consequences of his deceit. He needs to tell his parents and yours. He needs full disclosure of all passwords to phones, computers, social media and emails. 

YOU can not work on a marriage if you are separated!


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## Blacksmith01 (Aug 12, 2013)

If it were me I'd pop smoke and bail.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

The chances of this being the first time and only time are pretty slim.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I applaud you for your requirements. But unfortunately I also think there may be a lot more to the story.

You need to have full access to his bank accounts, credit card statements, browser history, phone records and phone, email, and whatever else you want to, in order to verify that there isn't anything else suspicious going on. He should provide all of this with NO questions asked. Immediately - do not give him time to delete anything. It may take months or years for you to not need this access any more, and if that's the case he needs to provide it.

You CANNOT allow this to be swept under the rug. Do some reading around here - this thread is a good start

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

StayorGoDon'tKnow said:


> D-day occurred 6/29/16…in the form of a letter to my spouse in my mailbox from the other woman. The poor girl was young and naive…couldn’t figure out that my husband never called her again because all he was looking for a one night stand while I was out of town.


How old are you and your H and how young is "young and naive".

There could be some hidden issues here way bigger than you want to deal with.

If she is a teen or thereabouts and he lied and used her for his own purposes then that suggests a callous disregard for other peoples feelings, especially women, in his eyes that may make any thoughts of a future together irrelevant.

It's a different matter than two adults who are responsible for their own actions.

If she was underage then you need to ditch him and turn him in.

From what you've said she was a young and innocent party here so taking action against her wouldn't help anybody.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

StayorGoDon'tKnow said:


> *We were at the happiest point our marriage has ever been, when this happened……or at least I thought so*.


I re-read your opening post. I must of overlooked your last statement.

I'd wager, More than half of us at TAM were "blindsided". Don't over-analyze this. Cheaters can put on the best at the home front. Some out of guilt, most to decoy the real truth. 

I spent/wasted years of my life trying to understand this contradiction. It's not worth it. My IC once told me just go ahead and throw "rationality" out the window. It doesn't work here.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Most people have said or thought at some point what they would do if they were ever in the situation where a spouse cheated. But once you're in an emotional crisis, it is really hard to follow whatever you decided on. My suggestion is follow whatever your planned course of action was before you found out since that was at a time you were thinking logically. If you always said you'd leave a cheater, then do it. If you thought you'd be able to forgive a ONS and work through it, then do it. There's not a universal "right" thing to do, but if you aren't true to yourself you won't be happy with the outcome.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

StayorGoDon'tKnow said:


> D-day occurred 6/29/16…in the form of a letter to my spouse in my mailbox from the other woman. *The poor girl was young and naive*…couldn’t figure out that my husband never called her again because all he was looking for a one night stand while I was out of town.


Ya sure! She played it right. You opened the envelope just like she planned. Like old Billy Congreve said, "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned nor hell a fury, like a woman scorned."
Be glad you had the sense to cause him to get a STD test. He's probably the third or forth guy this young and naive girl did the same week she did your old man.


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

LucasJackson said:


> Cheaters don't change. At most they just polish up their act and put on a better show.


Dumb (and wrong) statement.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

Capster said:


> Dumb (and wrong) statement.


Statistics say otherwise. Fish swim, birds fly, cheaters cheat. C'est la vie.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

LucasJackson said:


> No kids? Bail out. Run now and never look back. Cheaters don't change. At most they just polish up their act and put on a better show. Seriously, get out before kids come along and make that more difficult.


This. 

Granted, there are some success stories on this site, but in many cases, cheaters just work to hide their tracks better so they're not 'caught' the next time.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> This.
> 
> Granted, there are some success stories on this site, but in many cases, cheaters just work to hide their tracks better so they're not 'caught' the next time.


I wish it wasn't that way but I've read everything I can find related to the science of cheating. I became a little obsessed with it after it happened to me. I had to understand it. What I found is what I posted. Cheaters cheat. It's just who they are. Like being left handed. They could choose not to cheat, just like a leftie could choose to favor their right hand but they don't. Lefties are lefties and cheaters are cheaters.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

As an aside, it's not only about the cheater, though. Of those stories on here that I've read where the betrayed spouse takes the cheater back, the betrayed spouse really never seems to fully trust ever again. That total trust factor has been forever compromised, and that is often what is left out of these discussions. Sure, a person can be sorry, and giving people another chance is up to the betrayed spouse, but at the end of the day...it's very hard to ever trust that person, again. There are people on here who years after the affair had ended, they are STILL monitoring their partner's every move. So, that's something to really consider ...can you trust this guy ever again? Because if he never cheats again, you may always still wonder if he is, because he broke that initial trust. That's what the harder part of all of this would be for me. And that just sounds like a terrible way to live one's life. This is why it's a deal breaker for me, not because I'm incapable of forgiving, but because I'd be incapable of forgetting.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

LucasJackson said:


> I wish it wasn't that way but I've read everything I can find related to the science of cheating. I became a little obsessed with it after it happened to me. I had to understand it. What I found is what I posted. Cheaters cheat. It's just who they are. Like being left handed. They could choose not to cheat, just like a leftie could choose to favor their right hand but they don't. Lefties are lefties and cheaters are cheaters.


I've been cheated on in a relationship as well, and after I broke it off with him, learned through the grapevine that he cheated on the girl after me. So, yea...most cheaters never change...they just change people. lol


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

RWB said:


> StayorGo,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




R is a very hard task, it takes incredibly hard work from both sides.if you want to R you have to be prepared. It takes years...but the time invested would be worth it if you truly want to.
My WH and I R, and if you want my honest opinion if I had not had two very small children the marriage would have been over. I still have moments when we have a bad day, where I wonder if it's really worth it.
So think carefully and as was pointed out weigh those options very carefully. 


Sent from my iPhone


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> I've been cheated on in a relationship as well, and after I broke it off with him, learned through the grapevine that he cheated on the girl after me. So, yea...most cheaters never change...they just change people. lol


Betrayed folk seem to ignore that cheater don't cheat because they are simply bad at stumbling, have weak boundaries, that they can be sorry, realize the damage they done, etc., and subsequently tow the mark and walk the line. 
Like it or not, people cheat to fill a perceived void in their lives. They cheat for a reason. They cheat because the emotional and physical aspects of an affair adds something to their lives, alleviates emotional pain of perceived deficiencies and fosters a weak ego. 
Virtually everyone spends hours every day trying to look attractive. Think about what that means. Who wouldn't enjoy being dubbed the sexiest person alive? So you dress, go to the gym, put on make up, style your hair and the like to improve your attractiveness and appeal to the opposite sex (or maybe the same sex but that beyond the scope of my argument) You may be completely satisfied with your spouse, but you are still driven to want others to desire you. 
To some, one person wanting to be with them is sufficient to satisfy this longing for attention. To others, they need more proof. If you're unfortunate enough to get yoke to someone like that, they will likely cheat on you and cheat on you again.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> Betrayed folk seem to ignore that cheater don't cheat because they are simply bad at stumbling, have weak boundaries, that they can be sorry, realize the damage they done, etc., and subsequently tow the mark and walk the line.
> Like it or not, people cheat to fill a perceived void in their lives. They cheat for a reason. They cheat because the emotional and physical aspects of an affair adds something to their lives, alleviates emotional pain of perceived deficiencies and fosters a weak ego.
> Virtually everyone spends hours every day trying to look attractive. Think about what that means. Who wouldn't enjoy being dubbed the sexiest person alive? So you dress, go to the gym, put on make up, style your hair and the like to improve your attractiveness and appeal to the opposite sex (or maybe the same sex but that beyond the scope of my argument) You may be completely satisfied with your spouse, but you are still driven to want others to desire you.
> To some, one person wanting to be with them is sufficient to satisfy this longing for attention. To others, they need more proof. If you're unfortunate enough to get yoke to someone like that, they will likely cheat on you and cheat on you again.


Totally agree with this. Well stated.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

StayorGoDon'tKnow said:


> D-day occurred 6/29/16…in the form of a *letter to my spouse in my mailbox* from the other woman.





notmyrealname4 said:


> Was he actually arrogant enough to give her you guys'* mutual* email address? What does that tell you? It's great that you found out so quickly because of this. But he really has balls of brass to be so unconcerned about discovery.


This sounds more like she used an ancient form of communication called writing. I'm surprised that someone young would even think of it. 

What is surprising is that she knows their home address, which suggests that he brought her to the house for the ONS.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

*Deidre* said:


> As an aside, it's not only about the cheater, though. Of those stories on here that I've read where the betrayed spouse takes the cheater back, the betrayed spouse really never seems to fully trust ever again. That total trust factor has been forever compromised, and that is often what is left out of these discussions. Sure, a person can be sorry, and giving people another chance is up to the betrayed spouse, but at the end of the day...it's very hard to ever trust that person, again. There are people on here who years after the affair had ended, they are STILL monitoring their partner's every move. So, that's something to really consider ...can you trust this guy ever again? Because if he never cheats again, you may always still wonder if he is, because he broke that initial trust. That's what the harder part of all of this would be for me. And that just sounds like a terrible way to live one's life. This is why it's a deal breaker for me, not because I'm incapable of forgiving, but because I'd be incapable of forgetting.


Yes, but if you've been cheated on, are you ever going to trust ANYONE ever again? 

6 1/2 years out, and I don't trust my husband 100%. But I trust him much more than I would ever trust someone with whom I have no or little history.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> 6 1/2 years out, and I don't trust my husband 100%. But I trust him much more than I would ever trust someone with whom I have no or little history.


Why would you trust him again? You trusted him when he cheated. He's proved he was capable of betrayal . Why would you trust him 100%? (But you do trust him 100% that he's capable of falling off the wagon.)
Trust is belief in a person. Once you're proven wrong in your belief, you will always be on guard. Quit trying to trust completely. Its not necessary for a stable relationship. You seem to be feeling guilty for not trusting someone who shattered that trust. 
Bear in mind it ain't you milady that cause the "trust deficiency". Its him.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

VladDracul said:


> Why would you trust him again? You trusted him when he cheated. He's proved he was capable of betrayal . Why would you trust him 100%? (But you do trust him 100% that he's capable of falling off the wagon.)
> Trust is belief in a person. Once you're proven wrong in your belief, you will always be on guard. Quit trying to trust completely. Its not necessary for a stable relationship. You seem to be feeling guilty for not trusting someone who shattered that trust.
> Bear in mind it ain't you milady that cause the "trust deficiency". Its him.


You missed my point - I mustn't have been clear at all 

My point is that I DON'T trust him completely, and never will, and would trust someone else even less. I recognize this, and am using it to argue the point that splitting with someone just because you don't trust them isn't going to work, because you're going to trust someone else even less. People who trust 100% right off the bat are sorely mistaken.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I am a former WW. I also have some personal experience with addiction. 

Drug use lowers inhibitions and heightens physical sensation (body buzz). Drugs use in mixed company very frequently leads to some kind of sexual contact. If your H was using when he was with you, I can almost guarantee he has cheated before. As a spouse, it's surprisingly easy to miss the signs of cheating when you're emotionally and mentally exhausted worrying about the drugs. And, frankly, drug users tend to be experts at gas lighting, manipulation, and deception.

He had (at least) a ONS while you were out of town. He saw an opportunity to phuck around with presumed low risk of getting caught and he took it. He knew at multiple points along the way that he was going to cheat and he kept on track. It wasn't a momentary lapse, something that "just happened" or any of the other bullsh!t cheaters claim. It was s deliberate series of choices he knew would result in his penis sliding into and out of another woman's vagina until orgasm.

Let me guess, the poor OW was naive and he only used her for sex, but he lurves you and you're what matters. Sex was meaningless with her, but it's so much more with you, blah blah blah. That, my dear, is manipulation. 

Were I you, I'd immediately take him for a polygraph and concentrate on questions of fidelity and drug use. Not because I think there is a chance in hell this is the first and only time he's cheated, but because I think you need to know the full truth so you can more clearly see the lies and manipulations and feel comfortable with walking.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> You missed my point - I mustn't have been clear at all
> 
> My point is that I DON'T trust him completely, and never will, and would trust someone else even less. I recognize this, and am using it to argue the point that splitting with someone just because you don't trust them isn't going to work, because you're going to trust someone else even less. People who trust 100% right off the bat are sorely mistaken.


I have never trusted ANYONE 100%. I know too much about human nature to pretend so and so would never blah blah blah.

That said, I'd trust a man I just met more than I'd trust someone who has cheated on me. New man has never betrayed me, so I have no reason to assume he would. Man who cheated has betrayed me, so I have no reason to assume he wouldn't.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MJJEAN said:


> I have never trusted ANYONE 100%. I know too much about human nature to pretend so and so would never blah blah blah.


 Same here, at least since childhood.



MJJEAN said:


> That said, I'd trust a man I just met more than I'd trust someone who has cheated on me. New man has never betrayed me, so I have no reason to assume he would. Man who cheated has betrayed me, so I have no reason to assume he wouldn't.


 In my hubby's case, I'm the opposite. In the case of my exH, I was the same. 

ExH never did a single remorseful thing - not a single one. He was the classic serial cheater.

Hubby has worked extremely hard at remorse and has earned a far greater measure of my trust than I would ever give to a guy I'd just met.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> This.
> 
> Granted, there are some success stories on this site, but in many cases, cheaters just work to hide their tracks better so they're not 'caught' the next time.


I Agree. No bio kids. Bail.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Yes, but if you've been cheated on, are you ever going to trust ANYONE ever again?
> 
> 6 1/2 years out, and I don't trust my husband 100%. But I trust him much more than I would ever trust someone with whom I have no or little history.


True, distrust can be a residue from being cheated on...but I wouldn't stay in a relationship with a known cheater. That's just me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

WonkyNinja said:


> This sounds more like she used an ancient form of communication called writing. I'm surprised that someone young would even think of it.
> 
> What is surprising is that she knows their home address, which suggests that he brought her to the house for the ONS.


Or that she is a potential stalker who went through his wallet to find out stuff about him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

WonkyNinja said:


> This sounds more like she used an ancient form of communication called writing. I'm surprised that someone young would even think of it.
> 
> What is surprising is that she knows their home address, which suggests that he brought her to the house for the ONS.


... or maybe it suggests she knows how to read a phonebook or use google.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

Rubix Cubed said:


> ... or maybe it suggests she knows how to read a phonebook or use google.


Ahh yes. The phonebook, I had forgotten all about those!!


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## StayorGoDon'tKnow (Jul 4, 2016)

So, I am several weeks out now...and still not made a decision.

I have my first counseling appointment for myself only...set up this week. I have an attorney drafting a separation agreement that we will sign but not file with the courts until I am ready, in our state there is no expiration on the papers.

My husband has done everything I have asked of him and is showing true remorse. 


To answer some questions:
I am 32 and my husband is 39, the woman he cheated with is 20. 
Yes, he brought her to our home, that is how she knew where we lived.
My husband has serious issues stemming from childhood abuse(in every imaginable form)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Unless he is willingly going to his own IC every single week, there's no reason for you to stay.

btw, picking a 20 year old is his way of 'fixing' all the bad in his childhood/youth, when he was too inexperienced to handle it. It is the kind of woman he dreamed of getting back then, so he tried to do it now to soothe his past. 

But of course that has nothing to do with whether he's worth R'ing with.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Yes, but if you've been cheated on, are you ever going to trust ANYONE ever again?
> 
> 6 1/2 years out, and I don't trust my husband 100%. But I trust him much more than I would ever trust someone with whom I have no or little history.


I trust my wife, I was cheated on (first love). Found out brutally I might add. Yes I am a little more realistic then I was, I know nothing is ever a guarantee but I don't have that fear that she is lying to me. I didn't know what to believe by the time it ended with the other girl. I couldn't even believe my own feelings then. One relationship really doesn't have to do with the other. 

So I think you are wrong about this. One person deserves a chance, the other is a proven liar, people should be trusted by their actions and history. That's how I always thought about it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I am a former WW. I also have some personal experience with addiction.
> 
> Drug use lowers inhibitions and heightens physical sensation (body buzz). Drugs use in mixed company very frequently leads to some kind of sexual contact. If your H was using when he was with you, I can almost guarantee he has cheated before. As a spouse, it's surprisingly easy to miss the signs of cheating when you're emotionally and mentally exhausted worrying about the drugs. And, frankly, drug users tend to be experts at gas lighting, manipulation, and deception.
> 
> ...


Or not waste another moment of your life and just take out the garbage. 0


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

StayorGoDon'tKnow said:


> So, I am several weeks out now...and still not made a decision.
> 
> I have my first counseling appointment for myself only...set up this week. I have an attorney drafting a separation agreement that we will sign but not file with the courts until I am ready, in our state there is no expiration on the papers.
> 
> ...



My God you have SO much life ahead of you. You can still have kids and they won't have a genetically disposition to drug and alcohol abuse. You can have a wonderful relationship with a honorable man whom you can trust and who don't have to worry will fall back off the wagon. Without all the baggage. 

Have you ever had a relationship without these issues? If not let me tell you when you do it will be a revelation. Your spouse can actually be a great asset to your life in all things. 

Don't hitch your life to an anchor. Look up Sunk Cost Fallacy. Life is hard enough without having to worry about the one you are supposed to count on stabbing you in the back.

Finally you are not responsible for fixing him, you can't. You are also not responsible for holding his hand while he fixes himself. You may actually do him good if you move on, as he can concentrate fully on getting better and it may be the wake up call he needs. Again the truth is only he can fix himself and you really have very little to do with that, except choosing to be in the proximity of the damage he does. Make sure you are not codependent.


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