# The Magnitude of Infidelity



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Infidelity is a life changing event for everyone involved with scars that last a lifetime. A question for both the WS and the BS - how has infidelity changed your life? Your kids lives? Your friendships and other relationships? Your job? I am curious just how far reaching the impact of infidelity has on someones life.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

At times no piece because I have been trickle truth. So essentially left in the dark wondering what happened.

Time has not lessened the need to know and not getting answers.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

theroad said:


> At times no piece because I have been trickle truth. So essentially left in the dark wondering what happened.
> 
> Time has not lessened the need to know and not getting answers.


Your spouse owes you those answers....


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Her EA(?) changed my life, her life, and the marriage relationship.

For 5-6 months from DDay, I lost appetite, lost concentration in my work, I felt I could not even speak normally. I was LOST.

Terrible.

As time passed, I emerged stronger. I learnt not to trust her. I hold my head high. I am clean and I am not responsible for A.


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## Europa (Oct 28, 2011)

My wife cheated on me 5 years ago. In that time we've tried counseling, we've tried getting closer, we've tried being more open...

And here 5 years later I legitimately can't stand her. I daydream about the day my child turns 18 so I can leave the wife and never speak to her again.

Mine was a huge shock at the time. I never saw it coming so it blindsided me. I was in shock. As time went on I somehow started to believe it was my fault. I mean it must have been, right?

Then as that stage passed, and I noticed that she was working on doing it again with someone else, I realized it wasn't my fault at all.

I love my child though and I won't put her through a divorce. The wife and I get along just fine now. No fighting, we do family stuff with the child, etc.

As for intimacy, I'm absolutely revolted by her. Just having to give her a peck at night turns my stomach.

That's what the magnitude of infidelity is.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

There is not a single thing it does not touch - it's like a cancer.

Lets take the one 
infidelity/1 

two single people - annihilation of trust two famillies numbed by the betrayal. Lose friends and loyalties etc etc 

Result - If it finished you both you live and learn hopefully to watch your back in the future but your ability to 'trust' however has taken a massive kick in the proverbial balls

infidelity 2/a- married with two kids. After the personal betrayal deceit lies - the usual - First thing that hits you is that the betrayal is actually upon the kids too! Their hopes, their dreams their in built 'feeling secure' in a family unit that nobody can penetrate is gone, torn down - and forever. Their trust is also betrayed as mum or dad selfishly went outside of their married boundary and ripped everything up. They don't see their nan amd grand dad anymore as often and it's always with a 'strange atmosphere'. Their friends suddenly treat them a little differently they feel tainted.
The lives of your children are effectively destroyed. 
Then of course there's you also on the receiving end of all this 

2/b- Lets say the infidelity was with another married person with kids 

Just double everything I've said above !! - great !

Magnitude enough

Infidelity 3 - the serial cake eating cheat 

All of the above but but in multiples of a dozen!!

I have of course missed out on scenarios but tat should encompass some

Take one's own personal humiliation, emasculation into account outside of the children and the family and you have one mother fkr of a cheating scumbag at the epicenter of it all 

__________________

Personally there is of course the lack of self respect and confidence that will hit like a train as a BS tries to forgive to reconcile once twice etc. and the feeling that we the BS are at fault for it all.

Love I don't think is the problem for BS but trust of course is and will always be so

My heart will always flutter at a gorgeous woman but my head and emotions are now as hard as nails. I've has 20 years of 2 serial cheats and no-one will ever cheat on me again.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I think the impact of infidelity and the recovery from it are very much determined by a BS's personality BEFORE the cheating occurs.

When I was cheated on by my long term GF (were discussing M), I instantly and deliberately went about killing my feelings for her by turning them to angry hate. I knew the hate would only be temporary, but would be replaced by a total indifference after a month or two. After that, I could care less about her at all. It made it easy for me to reject her appeals to try again 8 months later. She was dead to me.

And I have never struggled with trusting other women after her. I knew they were not her, and I was never looking for them to suddenly start the same bs. They were individuals and I treated each that way.

I know this sounds too easy, but my point is that THIS has always been my personality towards people who have wronged me my entire life, though their are often times I do seek payback or revenge when in the hateful/angry stage after I have been screwed over by someone.

I could never picture myself being any other way in a life situation involving betrayal and being treated unjustly. I think the pattern has always been there and I just followed it almost without thinking.

However, I have dear friends and family who are nothing like me and do suffer long term from the wrongs done to them. But as with me, they also seem to follow a pattern.

Many of them are rugsweepers (especially my family). They without hesitation will try to immediately put the issue in the past, but it always is boiling just under the surface and instantly comes back out in arguments. This was done with my maternal grandmother's infidelity as well as my sister's husbands. But I also recognize that it is done with EVERY issue. And the excuse is always given that God commands us to forgive and move on. 

Sorry this was so long, but I guess my point is that there will always be a difference in how people are effected by cheating, but I think those differences are more a result of who we are before the issue ever arises in our lives rather than the circumstances of the cheating itself.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> I think the impact of infidelity and the recovery from it are very much determined by a BS's personality BEFORE the cheating occurs.
> 
> When I was cheated on by my long term GF (were discussing M), I instantly and deliberately went about killing my feelings for her by turning them to angry hate. I knew the hate would only be temporary, but would be replaced by a total indifference after a month or two. After that, I could care less about her at all. It made it easy for me to reject her appeals to try again 8 months later. She was dead to me.
> 
> ...


I have those in my family too. Rug sweeping allows the WS to get away with it. It seems to me infidelity destroys everything in its path. Even remorseful WS acknowledge that it changed their lives forever. I wonder if the BS ever looks at their WS the same way again.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

I feel sick in my soul by the utter despair of just knowing that she did that to me and our family.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Horizon said:


> I feel sick in my soul by the utter despair of just knowing that she did that to me and our family.


Has it effected other areas of your life Horizon?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Truthseeker,

How could they? Is it possible to forget what someone has done to you?

Even if you eventually are able to establish some kind of workable, even decent, relationship with a person who has betrayed you, there will never again be that blind trust that this person loves you and would never do anything to hurt you.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Truthseeker,
> 
> How could they? Is it possible to forget what someone has done to you?
> 
> Even if you eventually are able to establish some kind of workable, even decent, relationship with a person who has betrayed you, there will never again be that blind trust that this person loves you and would never do anything to hurt you.


True and from my personal experience - the affair - even if not talked about is always there. I'll give an example - a couple we know very well just recently celebrated their 40th wedding anniversary. When the wife posted it on facebook - the conversation eventually turned to the affair the husband had years earlier. It was kind of like yeah they are married x number of years but do you remember when X had his girldfriend? He was never looked at the same way again by those who remembered. It never really goes away just fades into the background...


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> I think the impact of infidelity and the recovery from it are very much determined by a BS's personality BEFORE the cheating occurs.


Agree x100.
Now, as you don't consider possibly R I will do.
If a BS agrees to R I'd say WS personality is mostly the key.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Along with the usual things from dday +, I watch what it did to our 15 year old daughter and how it, literally, destroyed her life. Like watching a nightmare play out. Your marriage, family... just melt down the drain.

I also, in the moth following dday had pain in my heart so bad I was taken to the hospital with what was believed to be a heart attack but was diagnosed as severe heart stress. 

Now, 14 years or so later, I simply have little trust for my second wife or otherwise. 

Then I see people like XXX who recently started a thread and justifies herself with phoney excuses as the OW and I realize just how inhumanely toxic, cold and callous people can be to all around them. It's like a form of PTSD.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I no longer have a single person on the planet to trust.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> I no longer have a single person on the planet to trust.


That is sad and a high price to pay for someone else's sh!tty behavior....


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

It has changed my life socially. A lot of my married/cohabiting friends with their own families kind of backed off. They didn't know how to approach/support me and maybe I've also distanced myself from them? On the flipside, I've made a lot of new friends and developed a new support system through them - even meeting women through baby play groups etc. that are in my exact situation or close to it right now. That has helped. I've also drawn closer to my family via telephone and a trip with my kids across the province and that has helped too. As for his family - I once adored them but his mother has been so cruel (blood is thicker than water after all) and his brother, once my best-friend has shown me indifference. That hurt but now I don't care.

The first few months were really ugly for me. I was 8 months pregnant on D-Day, with our second child. I felt like I'd been stabbed, had my heart ripped out. Gutted. I was in shock, devastated and hypersensitive to threats of any kind, coming from any place at all. I cried a lot, I was in bed a lot just listening to the two same CDs on my computer that I can't listen to today and prepared to be a single-mother of two. I lost fifteen pounds whilst pregnant. When my son came home from his summer trip with family, I put on a brave face and trudged through the day. Then there were moments of bravado where I felt courageous, strong, untuchable, confident. I thought I was healing. 

Back in January/February - right after Christmas/New Year's I suppose, I crashed again. The insomnia, nausea, lack of appetite, obsessive thoughts etc. came back ten-fold. I wanted to die. I lost another thirty pounds, had malnutrition and anemia and my hair was falling out, I had verbal ticks, I cried for a second every time I went to the bathroom and then came out composed for my kids. I decided to get on antidepressant meds.

Feb/March, the meds and counseling helped. The lights came back on and have been back on for me ever since. I logged off of TAM and started focusing on me, my kids, rebuilding a new life. I didn't plan to but I also dated a couple of times. I feel strong and I don't think it's false bravado anymore. I know I can do this.

As for my kids, my baby is too young to know the difference which is bittersweet. As for my oldest - 9. A lot of his innocence has been stolen. I don't know if we can get it back but I am trying through counseling for him to do just that. He suffered immensely - at times, more than me I think as a result of this. It's so confusing for him and I'm trying to help him make sense of nonesense. He has been getting better though day-by-day.

Not that I'd have wanted to go through this betrayal or the separation, there have been "benefits" to me as a woman. Having had to "be the man" of my house - protect my kids and myself at night, fix things, do repairs, etc. gave me a lot of confidence. I feel stronger in a lot of different ways. 

It also gave me time to look at my ex for who he is, not just how I'd chosen to see him over the years pre-affair. I realize I put up with a lot of crap in general and I know I don't want to go back to the way things were. I used to give in so easily to unfair agreements between us, one-sided affection and neglect etc. I'm not a pushover anymore or a doormat. He wants me back but on his terms and a relationship similar to the one we had before. It won't happen though because I have terms of my own. I think he doesn't know what to do with my new-found resolve. He seems afraid of me now in a way. 

I also used to jump through hoops to please or walk on eggshells to appease his family. I had adopted them as my own. After this experience, I know where the rubber meets the road now and I just don't value them the same. I don't think I will again whether we end up back together or not.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> That is sad and a high price to pay for someone else's sh!tty behavior....


I viewed us as an entity created by the marriage. In addition to us being individuals we also had "US". Sort of the old "You and I against the world" thing. Like we're in one of those snow globes with the hard clear bubble and a nice scene inside. No matter what is going on outside of our bubble, we at least have the 2 of us inside it.

Now I find out that the marriage I thought I had never really existed.

If there is any person on the planet who can be trusted it would be the spouse. But apparently not.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Miss Taken and Thor, thank you both for sharing...I started this thread to facilitate a discussion on the true magnitude of infidelity. I want to learn and understand as much as I can. How the aftershocks are felt by so many people. I don't think we can see enough stories of how truly evil infidelity can be. It is romanticized in the popular culture but in real life there are terrible consequences for all involved - especially the kids.


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Magnitude. Oh, the magnitude. Only a few days from being 14 months from Dday and have a FWH doing everything he can to make things right, and still...Even though we are in R, I am still shattered. Even though "we" will eventually be ok, "I" may never be.

What I have lost:

20% of my body (I was a very athletic size 8, now 2-4, although still, thanks to genetics and extensive yoga background not a stick figure)

50% of my hair-it came out by the handful

90% of my appetite-it is difficult to eat with a belly full of fear

100% of my self-esteem and confidence

Faith-in anything

112 hours of sick leave

The ability to breathe properly (for me, this is huge, considering I had previously been off all asthma medications, and through studying/teaching yoga on a professional level had been able to slow my breathing to a 22 second inhale and 35 second exhale without difficulty, and my "normal breathing pattern" was about four breaths per minute), I am now back on Singulair, steroid inhaler and rescue inhaler...sucks!

The desire to either do or teach yoga (yes, I know yoga is good for PTSD/PISD, however, I was at a training weekend on Dday, so it has become a trigger-go figure)

The ability to buy dish soap (Name trigger), also her name seems to be favored by writers and narrators, I hear or see it daily.

Trust in the ONLY PERSON I HAVE EVER TRUSTED

The fairy tale (grade-school sweethearts-the boy who chased me around the playgroud-who grew up and found eachother after being treated badly by other people)

And probably much more that I can't think of off-the-cuff


What I have gained:

A husband who checks in frequently, thinks I walk on water, and is more attentive than ever, even after his recent surgery.

Friends I never knew I had. When WH still in the fog, a few very brave souls, HIS friends, stepped up and told him he was an idiot. One of them has even recently told me that J had confided that even after all these years, he had never known how strong I was, and respects me now more than ever (go figure)

The ability to function on less than two hours' sleep (ok, maybe that's not a positive thing, but this list is significantly shorter)


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

My XW's affair(s) changed me in the following.

I now work less than I did before.
I am divorced.
I work out more than I used to.
I actually end up doing more with my kids now.
I also do more for me now.
I also spend time on TAM trying to share what I learned the hard way.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

calmwinds said:


> Magnitude. Oh, the magnitude. Only a few days from being 14 months from Dday and have a FWH doing everything he can to make things right, and still...Even though we are in R, I am still shattered. Even though "we" will eventually be ok, "I" may never be.
> 
> What I have lost:
> 
> ...


This quote is for you and all those trying to pick up the pieces...

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. - Ralph Waldo Emerson


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## tgrain34 (Jul 28, 2013)

Great thread. 

The damage it has done to me personally is unbelievable. My story is the typcal facebook "reconnection". First friends on there. Then chatting all of the time. Then going out with spouses and other couples. Textbook. It went on for about a year before I got caught, then continued during my divorce. what I have found is that I will most likely never trust anyone again. This based on the things that I did, or shall I say, we did right under everyone's nose. Then of course once you are playing this game, you see how many actually are. It's both men and women. Housewives to professionals, it is EVERYWHERE!

Then there is the guilt for the kids. You basically at best rob them as well as yourself of time growing up with them. Being a part time parent blows for everyone no matter how "well" the kids adapt and are. 

I have my suspisions of what my ex did early in our marriage and they really don't matter. SHe can deal with that her own way. But this is seriously killing me. 

Do not have an affair. Do not cheat on your spouse. Just don't.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

I lost my innocence and complete faith in people (or as my friends put it, my naivety). I gained my friends and family back, along with my creativity. My STBXW was a full time job, by taking care of her emotional issues all the time, I lost myself. Funny, that I never saw it as a burden when it happened. Now, I do a lot of things that I used to enjoy and which might eventually open door to a lot of different opportunities in future.

It was hell when it happened, it devastated my close family members, but in hindsight I am glad it happened now when I am 30 and have no kids, than happening 20 years down the line. Very few cheaters can change themselves, and it is not worth the risk.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tgrain34 said:


> Great thread.
> 
> The damage it has done to me personally is unbelievable. My story is the typcal facebook "reconnection". First friends on there. Then chatting all of the time. Then going out with spouses and other couples. Textbook. It went on for about a year before I got caught, then continued during my divorce. what I have found is that I will most likely never trust anyone again. This based on the things that I did, or shall I say, we did right under everyone's nose. Then of course once you are playing this game, you see how many actually are. It's both men and women. Housewives to professionals, it is EVERYWHERE!
> 
> ...


Tgrain - thanks for jumping in with your story - good to get a perspective from a WS....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It has been a stark lesson in boundaries; 
It has changed the way I view relationships/people;
It has changed my level of trust


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

No one understands the magnitude unless they've been betrayed. It causes a mix of emotions like helplessness, guilt, fear, rage, insecurity, low esteem, etc. My first reaction when my Ex cheated was to fix whatever went wrong and of course to blame myself for her not being happy. Seems like we're programmed to crash and burn. Fortunatly for me we didn't reconcile. Had we been more compatible and has she been remorseful then I probably would have tried and I'd still have the scars to deal with every day. That was a life time ago though.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

JB, 

Glad to see you back. 



Jellybeans said:


> It has been a stark lesson in boundaries;
> It has changed the way I view relationships/people;
> *It has changed my level of trust*


I'm about 4 years out DD... *Aug 5, 2009.* My wife has done everything right since that horrible night. She has turned her life around in everyway. She is fully committed to our marriage.

Do I trust her now?... No. 
Will I ever trust her?... No.
Does she know this... Yes.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

RWB said:


> JB,
> 
> Glad to see you back.
> 
> ...


How long was your wife's affair RWB?


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I could write a book on how its changed me. 

Im more cynical, less trusting. I realized i must rely on no one else. 

Im also a better father now. A better person. It gave me new purpose and personal power. I gave my wife all of myself that i could. I now do for me. I sacrifice for me. I am a priority to myself now.

Its one of the best and worst things to happen to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

awake1 said:


> I could write a book on how its changed me.
> 
> Im more cynical, less trusting. I realized i must rely on no one else.
> 
> ...



Has it effected your professional life or friendships?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Thor said:


> I viewed us as an entity created by the marriage. In addition to us being individuals we also had "US". Sort of the old "You and I against the world" thing. Like we're in one of those snow globes with the hard clear bubble and a nice scene inside. No matter what is going on outside of our bubble, we at least have the 2 of us inside it.
> 
> Now I find out that the marriage I thought I had never really existed.
> 
> If there is any person on the planet who can be trusted it would be the spouse. But apparently not.


A variation on this theme. Trust always has limits now. I do not seek that magical person I can trust absolutely. I don't believe they exist.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

awake1 said:


> I could write a book on how its changed me.
> 
> Im more cynical, less trusting. I realized i must rely on no one else.
> 
> ...


Yes awake I'll go with that.

I'm hoping my cyniscism drops though, not a good trait I feel okay in doses but it does put people off.

My kids are priority one, me next, and everybody else somewhere else and stbx wife bottom of the list

I'll never trust another woman again fully as long as I live


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I think one of the saddest things I hear from so many BS on here is how they have lost trust, not just in their WS as that makes logical sense, but in all other people.

It is a natural reaction and very understandable. In essence, it is a form of self-preservation to prevent a repeat of the horrible trauma that has occurred. 

I have always fought to make sure I never do this. It takes conscious effort sometimes, but I am determined to not do this.

I feel that if I let myself be changed by the injury I have received, I am being victimized all over again by the trash that wronged me.

I also truly believe it would be unjust of me to project fault and suspicions onto other people I meet who are innocent and have done me no wrong.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> I think one of the saddest things I hear from so many BS on here is how they have lost trust, not just in their WS as that makes logical sense, but in all other people.
> 
> It is a natural reaction and very understandable. In essence, it is a form of self-preservation to prevent a repeat of the horrible trauma that has occurred.
> 
> ...


But if everyone is capable of wrong?

I have not lost the ability to trust, but I have lot the ability to trust absolutely.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How long was your wife's affair RWB?


She serially cheated with 3 OM for over 6+ years. I suspected off and on for years and even confronted without hard proof (Not a good idea). When I caught her with an old college BF she owned up to her years of betrayal. 

Is there more?... probably, it seems there always is.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Wazza,

I get and understand completely what you are saying.

I would have to say for me that I still force myself to always give people the benefit of any doubt I feel.

Until a person actually does wrong to me, I'm not going to act suspicious of them or be looking for evidence they might have bad intentions.

If I did that, I would feel as if I let a person who has hurt me in the past steal something else from me, and that is the person I truly am and want to be.

Honestly, sometimes I have to consciously remind myself of this commitment I've made to myself when I see things that are red flags or triggers.

And I'm not saying I'm naive. I will look into any signs I see that something is shady, I just won't jump to any conclusions based on past experiences. I let the current evidence dictate what I think is going on.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Yes awake I'll go with that.
> 
> *I'm hoping my cyniscism drops though, not a good trait I feel okay in doses but it does put people off.*
> 
> ...


Try to curtail the cynicism - at least do not show it to other people. Use it as a tool to keep your eyes open in every situation.

Your last statement gets to the heart of what cheaters do - they take a flamethrower to your soul - they walk away and you are left carrying the baggage into your next relationship. There are no easy answers - although from what I've seen in my own life and from reading here - the BS does carry a much heavier burden for the rest of their lives.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Wazza,
> 
> I get and understand completely what you are saying.
> 
> ...


Awesome insight...


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## sang-froid (May 2, 2013)

Infidelity has taken my memories from me because I don't know what was real and what was a lie. For example, on my wedding day when he looked in my eyes and said his vows I remember how I felt so fortunate that we had something so special between us and that he truly meant those words. Now that I know there were lies/lies of omission even back to that time when I can't find evidence of him having yet had an EA, I don't believe he ever had any intention of being faithful to me. He denies it, but I believe he's in denial himself about it. When I think about other special moments, many of them are similarly tainted for me.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

sang-froid said:


> Infidelity has taken my memories from me because I don't know what was real and what was a lie. For example, on my wedding day when he looked in my eyes and said his vows I remember how I felt so fortunate that we had something so special between us and that he truly meant those words. Now that I know there were lies/lies of omission even back to that time when I can't find evidence of him having yet had an EA, I don't believe he ever had any intention of being faithful to me. He denies it, but I believe he's in denial himself about it. When I think about other special moments, many of them are similarly tainted for me.


Sorry for your situation...


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Europa said:


> My wife cheated on me 5 years ago. In that time we've tried counseling, we've tried getting closer, we've tried being more open...
> 
> And here 5 years later I legitimately can't stand her. I daydream about the day my child turns 18 so I can leave the wife and never speak to her again.
> 
> ...


Honestly that sounds like a terrible way for you all to live, including your child. Kids pick up on that stuff. Your child may end up resenting you more for staying in a bogus marriage than if you were to leave her - which would be WAY better for you. jmo.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Loaded question. One huge thing for me is that I now see how messed up and damaged a person she always has been, and how sick our marriage was due to her f*cked-up-ness. I look back and see how miserable she made me - and all the sh*t I put up with for years and years. I see she was the cause of me being on anti-anxiety meds all those years (15 - and I'm off now). I look at her and see she is true white trash and rather stupid. Everyone else saw this, but she was my wife, and I loved and honored her despite all that - I never let myself see the real her.

Then of course there is the fundamental changes it brings about in yourself. Life looks totally different. I can breath now, live now. But the damage is severe. Trust in people (women) is gone. My belief in the institution of marriage - rocked and possibly forever destroyed. Confusion and puzzlement as to how you didn't see the forest for the trees all those many years. She manipulated and emotionally abused me for all those years by constantly accusing me of cheating on her - when it was she who was the betrayer all along. How can that happen? It makes you question SO MUCH about yourself and other people.

The constant anger and despair about what she did to my children - how that will affect their lives, their views on love, commitment, trust, vows, security...the very person who is to teach them those things burned it all down. How must that damage a child? They will carry this with them their entire lives. How they are affected by it is yet to be seen - and likely always changing.

It shows you a new kind and level of emotional pain, confusion, anger and bewilderment you've never, ever even been able to fathom.

On the positive side, I'm a man now. My balls aren't tucked away in her purse. I play music again. I have friends again. I bonded with my family. She no longer eats away at my soul. I cook, I clean, I spend far more quality time with my kids. It opens your eyes, sharpens your senses and tempers you (if it doesn't destroy you).


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

The-Deceived said:


> Loaded question. One huge thing for me is that I now see how messed up and damaged a person she always has been, and how sick our marriage was due to her f*cked-up-ness. I look back and see how miserable she made me - and all the sh*t I put up with for years and years. I see she was the cause of me being on anti-anxiety meds all those years (15 - and I'm off now). I look at her and see she is true white trash and rather stupid. Everyone else saw this, but she was my wife, and I loved and honored her despite all that - I never let myself see the real her.
> 
> Then of course there is the fundamental changes it brings about in yourself. Life looks totally different. I can breath now, live now. But the damage is severe. Trust in people (women) is gone. My belief in the institution of marriage - rocked and possibly forever destroyed. Confusion and puzzlement as to how you didn't see the forest for the trees all those many years. She manipulated and emotionally abused me for all those years by constantly accusing me of cheating on her - when it was she who was the betrayer all along. How can that happen? It makes you question SO MUCH about yourself and other people.
> 
> ...


How are oyur kids dealing with this?


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How are oyur kids dealing with this?


Thanks for asking. They are strong kids - and when with me, they're almost always upbeat, happy and confident. They have their moments, especially on the cross over days. My son gets angry (he's 8) and my daughter gets needy, insecure and emotional (she's 5). I see a lot more of this behavior when they are with her.

When my daughter sees us together (we do weekly half hour visits) she loves it - seeing her folks together. She immediately starts drawing pictures of the 4 of us, pulling us together for hugs...my son does not - he is angry.

They are utterly amazing kids that never cease to blow my mind. I love them more than anything ever. And I hate her for doing what she did to them.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

The-Deceived said:


> Thanks for asking. They are strong kids - and when with me, they're almost always upbeat, happy and confident. They have their moments, especially on the cross over days. My son gets angry (he's 8) and my daughter gets needy, insecure and emotional (she's 5). I see a lot more of this behavior when they are with her.
> 
> When my daughter sees us together (we do weekly half hour visits) she loves it - seeing her folks together. She immediately starts drawing pictures of the 4 of us, pulling us together for hugs...my son does not - he is angry.
> 
> They are utterly amazing kids that never cease to blow my mind. I love them more than anything ever. And I hate her for doing what she did to them.


Are they getting any counseling to deal with this?


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

We have talked, we have cried, we have yelled. The cheating is a very hard thing to come to grips with. I struggle every day with it. I have agreed to forgive and work on our marriage. He has apologized and said he will do whatever it takes to make us work. 

I feel some days he is not 100% committed, but I think that may be my insecurities, but it is my feeling. We are trying to put the affair behind us and move forward. As of yesterday we decided not to mention it except in MC sessions. He did tell me if I ever threw it up in his face, he would walk out the door and the other side of the coin I told him if he ever saw her again, he would walk out the door and I would be done. He agreed.

It is a long hard road and we have just started the process. I am not sure myself that this is what I want either, but we both agreed to give it a try to see if we could regain our marriage. 

Infidelity is a horrible thing to go through and I would not wish this pain on my worse enemy. (well maybe except for the skank OW)


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> We have talked, we have cried, we have yelled. The cheating is a very hard thing to come to grips with. I struggle every day with it. I have agreed to forgive and work on our marriage. He has apologized and said he will do whatever it takes to make us work.
> 
> I feel some days he is not 100% committed, but I think that may be my insecurities, but it is my feeling. We are trying to put the affair behind us and move forward. As of yesterday we decided not to mention it except in MC sessions. *He did tell me if I ever threw it up in his face, he would walk out the door* and the other side of the coin I told him if he ever saw her again, he would walk out the door and I would be done. He agreed.
> 
> ...


um excuse me...you do need to work through this...don't let him rug sweep this...


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> um excuse me...you do need to work through this...don't let him rug sweep this...


Exactly. We are trying to work through it. I have asked him a million questions and told him I may have a million more, but we agreed to discuss it in MC. I get very emotional when we discuss it. I do not really want to know the answers to the questions I ask, but for some reason I keep asking :-(

Actually he said I was lying about something the other night and I said "I would call me a liar if I was you" that kind of throwing up in his face he does not want. But you know, he cheated and that is all on him. He has to take the consequences of that betrayal and understand I have raw emotions about it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> Exactly. We are trying to work through it. I have asked him a million questions and told him I may have a million more, but we agreed to discuss it in MC. I get very emotional when we discuss it. I do not really want to know the answers to the questions I ask, but for some reason I keep asking :-(
> 
> Actually he said I was lying about something the other night and I said "I would call me a liar if I was you" that kind of throwing up in his face he does not want. But you know, he cheated and that is all on him. He has to take the consequences of that betrayal and understand I have raw emotions about it.


How long has it been since d-day?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> Exactly. We are trying to work through it. I have asked him a million questions and told him I may have a million more, but we agreed to discuss it in MC. I get very emotional when we discuss it. I do not really want to know the answers to the questions I ask, but for some reason I keep asking :-(
> 
> Actually he said I was lying about something the other night and I said "I would call me a liar if I was you" that kind of throwing up in his face he does not want. But you know, he cheated and that is all on him. He has to take the consequences of that betrayal and understand I have raw emotions about it.


From what I read, it's normal to have anger and get snippy like that.. I just _try _to control it, and understand what it is that's happening. It's easier said than done...


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How long has it been since d-day?


March 15th. They had not slept together at that point but did the Saturday before Easter. It was an EA up until then, hours on the phone every day. Old HS GF and they have been friends for 40 years or so, talking off and on over the years. Actually they started talking the end of Feb,, but I did not find out until 3/15 by looking a the phone bill. 

I put him in the guest room on 3/15 and he stayed there until a little over a week ago when he chose his marriage over her. I struggled with it every day. They only actually saw each other 4 times but the hours on the phone, texts then emails were agony for me. I finally told him no more fence sitting, he could chose to work on the marriage or he could have the skank (not what I called her actually). In those 4 times he was with her, she fell madly deeply fully in love with him according to her emails and she cannot eat, sleep or get through her day without him - uh yeah skank you never cared whether I could do those things or not. She always re-capped the visits in emails is how I know it was only 4 times plus she lives a little over 2 hours away. 

I had begun to detach emotionally and making plans for my early retirement alone. He did not like those plans at all, but so be it, I was living the rest of my life with or without him.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> Infidelity is a life changing event for everyone involved with scars that last a lifetime. A question for both the WS and the BS - how has infidelity changed your life? Your kids lives? Your friendships and other relationships? Your job? I am curious just how far reaching the impact of infidelity has on someones life.


Well, here's the short list.

My kids
Their grades have slipped
They are insecure about their futures and filled with uncertainty
They are depressed and spend a lot more time in there rooms.
They are not the same care free children they were before

My job
My performance has suffered since DD 
It is harder to concentrate on business
My energy level is lower
My co-workers picked up the slack for me during the early days
I have gotten better gradually

Physically
I have aged
Hair is thinner and greyer
I lost a lot of weight initially but have gained most of it back
I just look older in general…stress.

Emotionally
I no longer trust people, even guy friends. I am suspicious of their motives
It takes a lot longer to warm up to strangers
I do not trust women. I see them as all as future cheaters
I can't get close emotionally. I see red flags everywhere after only a couple of dates.
I doubt I will ever marry again which is sad because I loved being married.
I am still bitter and pessimistic in general
I have lost interest in most things that I enjoyed before DD…hobbies, etc
I find myself questioning my faith which I never did before
I just turned 50. This would not have bothered me before…but now it does

That's just off the top of my head.

Keep in mind that my first wife cheated on me as well, many years ago. I was hurt deeply by this and divorced her immediately. I recovered but I was emotionally scarred. When my XWW #2 cheated, knowing the pain I experienced from XWW #1's cheating…I was destroyed.

The effect on me may sound rather extreme but remember I've had a double dose of infidelity in my life. The only 2 women I have ever loved…both betrayed me


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> Well, here's the short list.
> 
> My kids
> Their grades have slipped
> ...


Wow..I'm sorry man...that is horrible...some people are just so fvcked up...


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

Wow this one is going to drag out old feelings. Not feelings that can't be dealt with now but will always remain painful.

I watched my two children 12 and 14 try to take over being the adult in the situation. They watched their mother go from being a leader in the home to a person that had a hard time getting off the bathroom floor where I spent a good percent of my time curled up crying. My EX hired the escorts, went underground in NY for things that are unspeakable. I had to get a hystorectomy due to the STD he brought home from an Escort. I lost major weight and lost who I was for sometime.

Time heals pain and I eventually went back to my home town, got a job, rented a house, went to my 20 year class reunion. Returned home quit my job, told the X I was moving, kids were going with me, dog going with me. Everything fell into place because that's what needed to happen. 

I will never trust another person all the way again. The scar that was left from the infedelity will always and forever be felt. :-( I have two adult children that learned not to trust in relationships because of what the saw with their father and I. I tell them that they will always be better than we were but their world was ripped apart also. We became the Three Muskateers!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Tomara said:


> Wow this one is going to drag out old feelings. Not feelings that can't be dealt with now but will always remain painful.
> 
> I watched my two children 12 and 14 try to take over being the adult in the situation. They watched their mother go from being a leader in the home to a person that had a hard time getting off the bathroom floor where I spent a good percent of my time curled up crying. My EX hired the escorts, went underground in NY for things that are unspeakable. I had to get a hystorectomy due to the STD he brought home from an Escort. I lost major weight and lost who I was for sometime.
> 
> ...


Wow that is really sad....thanks you for sharing I know it was painful...


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Decimated said:


> Well, here's the short list.
> 
> My kids.....
> 
> ...


Same for me x2 , ( amounts to 20 years ) trust is just not even on the menu.

I'm a year and nearly half out from dday and after the initial year of disbelief anger bitterness rage etc etc I'm just sorting my head out and as yet I have no desire ( apart from the obvious) to involve another woman in my life.

One of the main reasons is that I can sense I am less of a nicer person and don't want to show that to a any prospective partners in the future. Maybe when I can feel that is not the case I'll be happier to look at a woman properly again

My cynicism is based like you on the idea that anyone I meet will be a cheat so why bother with it

This is what they have done to me - a good generous loving person. 
You feel tampered with abused


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> Loaded question. One huge thing for me is that I now see how messed up and damaged a person she always has been, and how sick our marriage was due to her f*cked-up-ness. I look back and see how miserable she made me - and all the sh*t I put up with for years and years. I see she was the cause of me being on anti-anxiety meds all those years (15 - and I'm off now). I look at her and see she is true white trash and rather stupid. Everyone else saw this, but she was my wife, and I loved and honored her despite all that - I never let myself see the real her.
> 
> Then of course there is the fundamental changes it brings about in yourself. Life looks totally different. I can breath now, live now. But the damage is severe. Trust in people (women) is gone. My belief in the institution of marriage - rocked and possibly forever destroyed. Confusion and puzzlement as to how you didn't see the forest for the trees all those many years. She manipulated and emotionally abused me for all those years by constantly accusing me of cheating on her - when it was she who was the betrayer all along. How can that happen? It makes you question SO MUCH about yourself and other people.
> 
> ...


The parallels in your post are incredible - you could be me and my stbx could be yours even the time 15 years my kids are 9 and 10 (nearly 11)


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

sang-froid said:


> Infidelity has taken my memories from me because I don't know what was real and what was a lie. For example, on my wedding day when he looked in my eyes and said his vows I remember how I felt so fortunate that we had something so special between us and that he truly meant those words. Now that I know there were lies/lies of omission even back to that time when I can't find evidence of him having yet had an EA, I don't believe he ever had any intention of being faithful to me. He denies it, but I believe he's in denial himself about it. When I think about other special moments, many of them are similarly tainted for me.


This I relate to hugely 

Any of you waywards look at this ...

imo - The Three tier levels of deceit in adultery and infidelity 

1/ There is of course the actual betrayals - the deceit treachery betrayal of all that is between you personally spiritually and physically, the lying and basic dishonesty that you cannot ever fathom and why.

2/ The aftermath of getting caught - the trickle truthing/blame shifting/gaslighhting/rugsweeoing the ability to inflict yet even more pain _after the event_ when it's far easier to actually come out with the basic truth and show unconditional remorse  

3/ and finally the undermining of the whole honesty of the relationship from start to finish - what was lies? and what was genuine? did you actually ever love me? and our relationship? when did you start to devalue and destabilize it? two years in? 9 years in? the last two years? or from the very start.

Now I know you had little respect for me did you not enjoy a single moment of any time I thought we magically spent together ? 

________

Like me sang froid you assume probably not 

... so most of it all was lies with you just waiting to get your legs around the next diversion whilst I provided you with the fundamental nice life from which you could cake eat your way to hell and back with your husband kids and other married families in tow in the wreckage

(........fvck all you waywards)


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

*The Magnitude of Infidelity STCKY THREAD REQUEST !?*

Have to say any waywards looking for the 'advice' 'locking horns' 'winding up' seeking 'understanding' 'empathy' etc should read this thread 

It should be a sticky quite frankly 

For many months now we've heard a lot from "the waywards must have their platform" few on TAM - "they have their rights too"! 

I think any wayward should be made to read this thread before they put a thread up. Somehow I think they'd be a bit more reticent about it.


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

My self esteem really fallen. His insistence on carrying on EAs with other women has made me feel so inadequate and less beautiful. I have supported him through so much, and the last time left me broken. It seems as though he did not want to or could not see his the gravity of his actions. He doesn't see it as being unfaithful. I felt and still feel helpless, but I vowed not to care though it left me so sad. But sadly, I recently ended up in a PA. I went from a loving, faithful wife to...whatever. I felt beautiful again just for a moment. No sex or kissing, just holding and touching. On one hand, it hurts to see my actions, but on the other hand, it came from a need for affection being given elsewhere. Still can't believe myself yet I'm still hanging on to the experience to make me feel good about myself. Probably need to go talk to someone. Not sure if I'll ever tell him. During that time I was out of the country and I came back to see my husband telling his ex that he misses her. Why do I even feel bad at all...

In other ways, he's a good husband and we enjoy each other. But I struggle between being a traditional wife who just finds a way to cope with this aspect of the marriage or just leaving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: The Magnitude of Infidelity STCKY THREAD REQUEST !?*



Headspin said:


> Have to say any waywards looking for the 'advice' 'locking horns' 'winding up' seeking 'understanding' 'empathy' etc should read this thread
> 
> It should be a sticky quite frankly
> 
> ...


Agreed...that is why I think this thread is important to hear the stories of BS and just how devastated infidelity can be. Our popular culture is all too permissive about it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

serenesoul said:


> My self esteem really fallen. His insistence on carrying on EAs with other women has made me feel so inadequate and less beautiful. I have supported him through so much, and the last time left me broken. It seems as though he did not want to or could not see his the gravity of his actions. He doesn't see it as being unfaithful. I felt and still feel helpless, but I vowed not to care though it left me so sad. But sadly, I recently ended up in a PA. I went from a loving, faithful wife to...whatever. I felt beautiful again just for a moment. No sex or kissing, just holding and touching. On one hand, it hurts to see my actions, but on the other hand, it came from a need for affection being given elsewhere. Still can't believe myself yet I'm still hanging on to the experience to make me feel good about myself. Probably need to go talk to someone. Not sure if I'll ever tell him. During that time I was out of the country and I came back to see my husband telling his ex that he misses her. Why do I even feel bad at all...
> 
> In other ways, he's a good husband and we enjoy each other. But I struggle between being a traditional wife who just finds a way to cope with this aspect of the marriage or just leaving.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you doing an counseling to help you? Any marriage counseling?


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Horizon said:


> I feel sick in my soul by the utter despair of just knowing that she did that to me and our family.


I totally relate to this! It is the first thing I think about in the morning and the last thing I think about at night.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Sweet Ginger said:


> I totally relate to this! It is the first thing I think about in the morning and the last thing I think about at night.


How has it effected other areas of your life?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

serenesoul said:


> My self esteem really fallen. His insistence on carrying on EAs with other women has made me feel so inadequate and less beautiful. I have supported him through so much, and the last time left me broken. It seems as though he did not want to or could not see his the gravity of his actions. He doesn't see it as being unfaithful. I felt and still feel helpless, but I vowed not to care though it left me so sad. But sadly, I recently ended up in a PA. I went from a loving, faithful wife to...whatever. I felt beautiful again just for a moment. No sex or kissing, just holding and touching. On one hand, it hurts to see my actions, but on the other hand, it came from a need for affection being given elsewhere. Still can't believe myself yet I'm still hanging on to the experience to make me feel good about myself. Probably need to go talk to someone. Not sure if I'll ever tell him. During that time I was out of the country and I came back to see my husband telling his ex that he misses her. Why do I even feel bad at all...
> 
> In other ways, he's a good husband and we enjoy each other. But I struggle between being a traditional wife who just finds a way to cope with this aspect of the marriage or just leaving.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seems like your frozen by fear and insecurity. There's more than this to marriage and partnership and you're selling yourself short by accepting it. Stepping down to his level will leave you feeling hollow inside and will further damage your self esteem as well. Maybe he's a good roommate in others ways but I can't see how he's a good husband in any form. Good luck serenesoul. I hope you find a way to see yourself as worth deserving better and the strength to do something about it.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Headspin said:


> Same for me x2 , ( amounts to 20 years ) trust is just not even on the menu.
> 
> I'm a year and nearly half out from dday and after the initial year of disbelief anger bitterness rage etc etc I'm just sorting my head out and as yet I have no desire ( apart from the obvious) to involve another woman in my life.
> 
> ...


I completely empathize with your pain Headspin. I was always a good, honest, and generous person as well. I feel as if all the good has been beat out of me. What we've been through just isn't fair. When I hear women ask "Where have all the good guys gone?" I think to myself...Your sisters destroyed us. I apologize for the good women that are still out there...I do know that they exist.

Here is another reason for my cynicism.

I have also seen so much infidelity around me lately. In my work and personal life I know of 11 men that have ended up divorced in the last few years. One was cheating on his wife and they ended up divorced. One was a mutual separation. The remaining nine of them discovered their wives were cheating on them...Nine! This cant be a coincidence. I also work with a woman who was cheating on her husband with a co-worker. We had been hearing rumors for a couple years about their sneaking around. She ended up leaving her husband for her boyfriend.

I don't know if cheating was always this prevalent but now I sure notice it now. The ratio of men to women who cheat is reported at 50/50 but what I have noticed in my life is much different.

Why in hell would anyone get married in this day and age?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> I completely empathize with your pain Headspin. I was always a good, honest, and generous person as well. I feel as if all the good has been beat out of me. What we've been through just isn't fair. When I hear women ask "Where have all the good guys gone?" I think to myself...Your sisters destroyed us. I apologize for the good women that are still out there...I do know that they exist.
> 
> Here is another reason for my cynicism.
> 
> ...


That is the $1,000,000 question..especially since family law does nothing to protect the wronged spouse..nothing...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> *I have also seen so much infidelity around me lately. In my work and personal life I know of 11 men that have ended up divorced in the last few years. One was cheating on his wife and they ended up divorced. One was a mutual separation. The remaining nine of them discovered their wives were cheating on them...Nine!** This cant be a coincidence. I also work with a woman who was cheating on her husband with a co-worker. We had been hearing rumors for a couple years about their sneaking around. She ended up leaving her husband for her boyfriend.
> 
> I don't know if cheating was always this prevalent but now I sure notice it now. The ratio of men to women who cheat is reported at 50/50 but what I have noticed in my life is much different.*
> 
> Why in hell would anyone get married in this day and age?


There are PLENTY of good women who get cheated in and ALL infidelity polls indicate men cheat in higher numbers...You just seem to have run into a lot of unfortunate men...in my own experience...more men then women cheated on their spouse not by much more but definitely more men...


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

I think about it constantly two years later, it has become me. I found out about things that happened years earlier, when our kids were very young. All my memories are tainted now, the future seems bleak. I'm basically a shell of a person, I'm just going thru the motions of life. I've cried everyday since this happened. I have zero self confidence as he cheated with girls half my age. I feel old and blah... He lost his job cause of this, I had to go back to work. I feel trapped in a depressing world. Everything has changed, I see nothing to look forward to. I feel robbed of life, jealous when I see young families. Mine was a lie and I can never go back and regain it. I will never trust again, never believe a word he says. I lost my best friend, never really had one. I was tricked. And what my girls have been thru... OMG.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> I think about it constantly two years later, it has become me. I found out about things that happened years earlier, when our kids were very young. All my memories are tainted now, the future seems bleak. I'm basically a shell of a person, I'm just going thru the motions of life. I've cried everyday since this happened. I have zero self confidence as he cheated with girls half my age. I feel old and blah... He lost his job cause of this, I had to go back to work. I feel trapped in a depressing world. Everything has changed, I see nothing to look forward to. I feel robbed of life, jealous when I see young families. Mine was a lie and I can never go back and regain it. I will never trust again, never believe a word he says. I lost my best friend, never really had one. I was tricked. And what my girls have been thru... OMG.


So sorry you are here...thanks for sharing your story...what are you doing to heal you?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> I think about it constantly two years later, it has become me. I found out about things that happened years earlier, when our kids were very young. All my memories are tainted now, the future seems bleak. I'm basically a shell of a person, I'm just going thru the motions of life. I've cried everyday since this happened. I have zero self confidence as he cheated with girls half my age. I feel old and blah... He lost his job cause of this, I had to go back to work. I feel trapped in a depressing world. Everything has changed, I see nothing to look forward to. I feel robbed of life, jealous when I see young families. Mine was a lie and I can never go back and regain it. I will never trust again, never believe a word he says. I lost my best friend, never really had one. I was tricked. And what my girls have been thru... OMG.


Hurtingbadly, I'm sorry, this is how I feel as well. Your words have struck a chord with me.

Being a shell of a person and just going through the motions of life. I too have low confidence and self esteem. At times I am filled with despair…helpless and feel trapped. I so badly need intimacy and affection in which I was denied for so long, but I am now filled with distrust. I feel like no one is going to want me in the state I'm currently in, but since I don't trust anyone anyway…I am trapped. 

I took our children on a week long vacation last month. I was constantly reminded, as I looked around us, seeing all the other moms, dads and children, that mine was forever broken. My innocent children noticed it too. They are just collateral damage. I was reminded of the happier times years ago when my children were younger and I our marriage/family was still innocent and pure. These thoughts were quickly chilled by the reality of what she did…the lies and betrayal and how far we have fallen in such a short amount of time with no chance of repair. It is all so unbelievably sad. I do think about all of this everyday. There seems to be no avoiding it. It has become my new life.

I know it's not healthy for me to feel this way. Some days are better then others. I do think that I am making progress but it is very small steps. This must be my goal and I must keep pushing forward if I want to feel happy and complete again.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> Hurtingbadly, I'm sorry, this is how I feel as well. Your words have struck a chord with me.
> 
> Being a shell of a person and just going through the motions of life. I too have low confidence and self esteem. At times I am filled with despair…helpless and feel trapped. I so badly need intimacy and affection in which I was denied for so long, but I am now filled with distrust. I feel like no one is going to want me in the state I'm currently in, but since I don't trust anyone anyway…I am trapped.
> 
> ...


Are you doing any reading to help with your situation?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Are you doing any reading to help with your situation?


I have read these books since "D" day.

Not just friends
Surviving Infidelity
Infidelity: A survival guide
How can I ever trust you again?
After the affair
Woman's infidelity: Living in Limbo (E-book)
Sexual Detours
The 5 love languages
Too good to leave, too bad to stay
Love must be tough
Married Man Sex Life
A purpose filled life
When Bad Things Happen to Good People
Gods answers to life's difficult questions
When God doesn't make sense


This is the approximate order I read them as well as countless web articles and forums and I'm sure, some other books I have forgotten.

Sadly, my XWW would not read one of them. I even bought her a copy of "How to help heal your spouse heal from your affair". It was only 100 pages long. She read the first 3 pages, didn't like what she read, and never picked it up again.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

I have read 5 languages of love, husband is supposed to start reading it tonight, doubt he will because it will hit him in the face in some sections.

I just got the new book by Dr Gary Chapman, the marriage you always wanted. Starting it tonight. Dr Chapman is coming to my area in Nov and I so want to go see him, that is if we are still in R. I somehow doubt we will be tho :-(


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Perhaps books in other areas of self improvement would help also?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Perhaps books in other areas of self improvement would help also?


Perhaps...but honestly, I'm sick of reading. Time and distance are what I need now.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> Perhaps...but honestly, I'm sick of reading. Time and distance are what I need now.


Yes, does the affair consume every aspect of your life?


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Has it effected your professional life or friendships?


my friends had drifted into the background since I met FWW. 

I have made some new friends since fwws affair. 

My professional life has to the best I can tell be impacted little, except that it spurred me to make decisions about my future that I put on hold. 

The impact has overall been positive on my life, and that's a strange thing to say. But I needed that lesson to not be so trusting, don't give too much, worry more about me and less about others.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Yes, does the affair consume every aspect of your life?


At first you could say it did consume my life because it was all I could think about. It no longer consumes every aspect but it does effect them....some more than others.


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## DumbDude (Jul 27, 2013)

Decimated said:


> At first you could say it did consume my life because it was all I could think about. It no longer consumes every aspect but it does effect them....some more than others.


As someone who is just at the beginning.

I can say, it consumes my mind constantly.

I wake up in the middle of the night and cant sleep because I am thinking about it.

I drive to work, thinking about it. I sit at work... thinking about it.

My job involves thinking and my concentration has been awful. I will begin thinking about a work project then all of a sudden my mind will be thrown back to my WW and our kids.

I need to study for an exam, but I cant concentrate.

It's like my mind is constantly churning over the same thing and if I try take it anywhere else it just jumps straight back within minutes...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

DumbDude said:


> As someone who is just at the beginning.
> 
> I can say, it consumes my mind constantly.
> 
> ...


Sorry you are here...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Dude, my IC says with something like infidelity or other trauma she has a rule: No worrying is allowed unless yyou can journal about it. So when you notice you are worrying, you either start journaling or you consciously tell yourself to wait until a time you can journal. It is a good technique. It is ok to make a small memo so you don't forget your ideas if you can't journal at the moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> Dude, my IC says with something like infidelity or other trauma she has a rule: No worrying is allowed unless yyou can journal about it. So when you notice you are worrying, you either start journaling or you consciously tell yourself to wait until a time you can journal. It is a good technique. It is ok to make a small memo so you don't forget your ideas if you can't journal at the moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What do you write about while journaling? Not specifics but do you write about how you are feeling, about the WS, etc?


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

His betrayal and leading a double life has robbed me of any desire to ever want to be in a relationship again. Sounds drastic? I don't want to share it all, and needless to say, divorce has been filed. The betrayal reached far beyond the affair.

I don't grant him the power of having destroyed my life, but it did a great deal of seemingly irreparable damage.

Before, I was a trusting and open, warm-hearted person. He acknowledged that and played it to his advantage. I stopped going out, cancel all invites, and keep to myself. I don't want to ever feel hurt and rejected like that again. I've been through a lot, supported his career, stayed home to raise the offspring, started working again when it suited him, just to learn that he has been cheating on me for over a decade, just because my behind is too fat for his taste.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> His betrayal and leading a double life has robbed me of any desire to ever want to be in a relationship again. Sounds drastic? I don't want to share it all, and needless to say, divorce has been filed. The betrayal reached far beyond the affair.
> 
> I don't grant him the power of having destroyed my life, but it did a great deal of seemingly irreparable damage.
> 
> Before, I was a trusting and open, warm-hearted person. He acknowledged that and played it to his advantage. I stopped going out, cancel all invites, and keep to myself. I don't want to ever feel hurt and rejected like that again. I've been through a lot, supported his career, stayed home to raise the offspring, started working again when it suited him, just to learn that *he has been cheating on me for over a decade*, just because my behind is too fat for his taste.


Wow....that is a long time, was it with one woman or is he a serial cheater? Are you getting help so you don't cut yourself off from life just because your WH is an a-hole?


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow....that is a long time, was it with one woman or is he a serial cheater? Are you getting help so you don't cut yourself off from life just because your WH is an a-hole?


It was with different women, at least four that I am aware of. 

I went to IC after it all blew up. I do have my emotional ducks in a row. Solitude is what I need to do for myself to heal. I am not ready for any kind of relationship, and don't want to burden others with my issues. The idea is to heal, on my own, and then venture out to make new friends.

What makes it worse is that I essentially have no family left, live abroad, and his family was all I had. They all cut me off since this happened to pad his back.

My goal for now is to connect my head to my heart, so I can let go of all this, and not care what they think of me. It's a family of cheaters anyway.

Tonight, a bottle of good wine is my friend. I usually don't drink.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> It was with different women, at least four that I am aware of.
> 
> I went to IC after it all blew up. I do have my emotional ducks in a row. Solitude is what I need to do for myself to heal. I am not ready for any kind of relationship, and don't want to burden others with my issues. The idea is to heal, on my own, and then venture out to make new friends.
> 
> ...


Please be careful with the alcohol...how are your kids reacting to this?


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

He has Asperger's, his response is blunted. Right now, he spends time with his dad and the OW. She makes herself popular. Dealing with Asperger's, ADHD, and other behavioral issues also put a strain on the marriage, that the ex did not want to deal with. I was quasi a single parent, even while still married. I was a PITA, but my son thanks me now, as he is sucessful in college. Between deading with him, IEPs, teachers and principals, going to school, going to work, and working hard to revigorate the marriage (I had no idea ex had checked out already), I became frustrated about carrying all the load alone. At one point I begged to please work with me, as I don't feel like I have a spouse, and I feel like it's making me physically ill to feel left hanging all the time. He went into his typical silent mode, and not even then did he acknowledge that he had already moved in with another woman. He continued to let me dangle, suffer, and nag. Then planned a cruise with me, and I had hopes that we were on the up and up. Then I found out about his affair, and the rug slipped out from underneath me. This bastard let me struggle, to continue his way in secret, and realized that he has absolutely no concern for me. 25 years, wasted.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> He has Asperger's, his response is blunted. Right now, he spends time with his dad and the OW. She makes herself popular. Dealing with Asperger's, ADHD, and other behavioral issues also put a strain on the marriage, that the ex did not want to deal with. I was quasi a single parent, even while still married. I was a PITA, but my son thanks me now, as he is sucessful in college. Between deading with him, IEPs, teachers and principals, going to school, going to work, and working hard to revigorate the marriage (I had no idea ex had checked out already), I became frustrated about carrying all the load alone. At one point I begged to please work with me, as I don't feel like I have a spouse, and I feel like it's making me physically ill to feel left hanging all the time. He went into his typical silent mode, and not even then did he acknowledge that he had already moved in with another woman. He continued to let me dangle, suffer, and nag. Then planned a cruise with me, and I had hopes that we were on the up and up. Then I found out about his affair, and the rug slipped out from underneath me. This bastard let me struggle, to continue his way in secret, and realized that he has absolutely no concern for me. 25 years, wasted.


Not wasted..you do have your son...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Decimated said:


> Perhaps...but honestly, I'm sick of reading. Time and distance are what I need now.


Some CDs, then? NLP sessions, that kind of thing?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Some CDs, then? NLP sessions, that kind of thing?


Does NLP work?


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Not wasted..you do have your son...


I know, and I am extremely grateful for him. I told him that, many times over that he has been the best that ever happened to me in my entire life.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> I know, and I am extremely grateful for him. I told him that, many times over that he has been the best that ever happened to me in my entire life.


Where does your family live? Can you return home?


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

It may be the wine talking, but all of this coincided with me getting bullied at work (now under control), was close to a burnout, and had three car accidents close together because of all the stress I was under. The day after Hurricane Sandy passed, I broke my ankle when trying to assess some property damage. Ex just cracked jokes, laughed it off, and never came home to help. He was busy shagging this OW. My son, a full-time college student, with a job on the side drove me to the hospital, to the doctor's office, went grocery shopping, prepared meals for me, and dealt with his cranky mom who was in pain, and feared for her job. The ex was a no-show.

I give my son so much credit how he managed the situation, wise beyond his years!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> It may be the wine talking, but all of this coincided with me getting bullied at work (now under control), was close to a burnout, and had three car accidents close together because of all the stress I was under. The day after Hurricane Sandy passed, I broke my ankle when trying to assess some property damage. Ex just cracked jokes, laughed it off, and never came home to help. He was busy shagging this OW. My son, a full-time college student, with a job on the side drove me to the hospital, to the doctor's office, went grocery shopping, prepared meals for me, and dealt with his cranky mom who was in pain, and feared for her job. The ex was a no-show.
> 
> I give my son so much credit how he managed the situation, wise beyond his years!


Sounds like a good young man...and that is because of YOU!!


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Where does your family live? Can you return home?


They live overseas...in Europe. 

Going home, as tempting as it sounds, would not benefit me economically. Last year, ex and I discussed relocating us back, and I was getting my hopes up. Soon thereafter, though, he started making excuses as to why it would not work, and he would prefer getting back to the States. All a lie. He sabotaged a couple of interviews, and told me after the fact that he never had any intentions to actually return.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> They live overseas...in Europe.
> 
> Going home, as tempting as it sounds, would not benefit me economically. Last year, ex and I discussed relocating us back, and I was getting my hopes up. Soon thereafter, though, he started making excuses as to why it would not work, and he would prefer getting back to the States. All a lie. He sabotaged a couple of interviews, and told me after the fact that he never had any intentions to actually return.


Can you make plans to relocate there eventually?


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Can you make plans to relocate there eventually?


I got nobody left there. If my son would go, I would follow. But my income potential, and his in his future career are much higher. 

Thing is, I have been through a lot, in life, and with my ex in particular. I consider myself rather resilient, but the cheating, that betrayal, has done a number on me. He always pointed out that he loves how honest I am, how I'm a good mom, take care of the home and our finances (he's a financial catastrophe, I am by trade, my first profession, a CPA), am a good cook and baker, and make sure that everyone is healthy and well. I wanted a ****ing relationship with him, not just a janitor's job.


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

What can I say? In vino veritas. Salute!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> I got nobody left there. If my son would go, I would follow. But my income potential, and his in his future career are much higher.
> 
> Thing is, I have been through a lot, in life, and with my ex in particular. I consider myself rather resilient, but the cheating, that betrayal, has done a number on me. He always pointed out that he loves how honest I am, how I'm a good mom, take care of the home and our finances (he's a financial catastrophe, I am by trade, my first profession, a CPA), am a good cook and baker, and make sure that everyone is healthy and well. I wanted a ****ing relationship with him, not just a janitor's job.


You will make it through..in the end character counts....and the karma bus will be running your WH over soon enough....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> What can I say? In vino veritas. Salute!


Salute? Are you italian?


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Salute? Are you italian?


No, not that I know. Blond, blue, and of Eastern European descent.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> No, not that I know. Blond, blue, and of Eastern European descent.


It's all good :smthumbup: Do you try to allow yourself some fun?


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

So Truthseeker. Can we all get a free copy of your book when it get published?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> So Truthseeker. Can we all get a free copy of your book when it get published?


LOL if I was writing one sure....


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

funny-- good question - I see women in a totally different light than I once did....I trusted women and had incredible faith in them. Never thought they would hurt me...trusted my judgment on women. Now I find myself seeing all women as pretentious lying and manipulative. Feel they put on big front but behind the scenes are scheming. Before, I thought there were "good" girls and "bad" girls...now I find myself clumping women into the same category. I also have no desire to get deep with another woman.....no sense if it is going to end anyway. 
Oddly, I do not value marriage anymore either. I used to see a married woman and think see was off-bounds because she was married but now I think "she probably screws around on her husband." So I feel okay looking at her.


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## GettingBetter (Mar 7, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> funny-- good question - I see women in a totally different light than I once did....I trusted women and had incredible faith in them. Never thought they would hurt me...trusted my judgment on women. Now I find myself seeing all women as pretentious lying and manipulative. Feel they put on big front but behind the scenes are scheming. Before, I thought there were "good" girls and "bad" girls...now I find myself clumping women into the same category. I also have no desire to get deep with another woman.....no sense if it is going to end anyway.
> Oddly, I do not value marriage anymore either. I used to see a married woman and think see was off-bounds because she was married but now I think "she probably screws around on her husband." So I feel okay looking at her.


Exactly how I feel.
Also to add that every time I see a family together I can't stop thinking how lucky those kids are to have their parents together.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> funny-- good question - I see women in a totally different light than I once did....I trusted women and had incredible faith in them. Never thought they would hurt me...trusted my judgment on women. Now I find myself seeing all women as pretentious lying and manipulative. Feel they put on big front but behind the scenes are scheming. Before, I thought there were "good" girls and "bad" girls...now I find myself clumping women into the same category. I also have no desire to get deep with another woman.....no sense if it is going to end anyway.
> Oddly, I do not value marriage anymore either. I used to see a married woman and think see was off-bounds because she was married but now I think "she probably screws around on her husband." So I feel okay looking at her.





GettingBetter said:


> Exactly how I feel.
> Also to add that every time I see a family together I can't stop thinking how lucky those kids are to have their parents together.


I've been there guys but you won't feel this way forever. I married young and my first wife was pretty screwwed up. That marriage ended with me realizing that I couldn't trust my own judgement in women so that left me with the same option you guys have now which is "trust no one".

The thing is at least now you know to move slow. There's nothing wrong with being guarded. When you find the right woman then she'll wait on you and some morning you'll wake up and think why the hell am I not putting a ring on her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What do you write about while journaling? Not specifics but do you write about how you are feeling, about the WS, etc?


Everything. What I am worried about. What I think I know, what I know I don't know, what might be true. Sequences of events so I can claridy my thoughts. Documenting conversations. My goals, preferences, hopes. What angers me aboout what happened. Really anythimg which crosses my mind.

It helps clarify. Which reduces the endless loops of rehashing the same thoughts and emotions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I've been there guys but you won't feel this way forever......... When you find the right woman then she'll wait on you and some morning you'll wake up and think why the hell am I not putting a ring on her.


Mmm no - not ever 

Never again

Unfortunately my cynicism is now deeply embedded 

I'll have a relationship with a woman but not under my roof.

If she wants me -that's fine - she gets just that, not the house, the possessions, the money that come with me and if that is not enough then I don't need to know any more.

Until a relationship is fully 50/50 emotionally physically financially and every other aspect then imo marriage is a flawed concept. Whilst just by being married one party can screw the other in to the ground nomatter who brought/brings what to the table then it will never work for me

Marriage for me now is a meal ticket concept. As soon as the contract is signed one or other party can sit back and take their foot off the gas and watch the other one provide everything in every way, get to the end of it and decide they are now worth more than half of everything including kids too.

Completely fked up in my view


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> funny-- good question - I see women in a totally different light than I once did....I trusted women and had incredible faith in them. Never thought they would hurt me...trusted my judgment on women. Now I find myself seeing all women as pretentious lying and manipulative. Feel they put on big front but behind the scenes are scheming. Before, I thought there were "good" girls and "bad" girls...now I find myself clumping women into the same category. I also have no desire to get deep with another woman.....no sense if it is going to end anyway.
> Oddly, I do not value marriage anymore either. I used to see a married woman and think see was off-bounds because she was married but now I think "she probably screws around on her husband." So I feel okay looking at her.


Wow!! And I thought *I* was in the gutters!!! :scratchhead: Are you happy in this place?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> I've been there guys but you won't feel this way forever. I married young and my first wife was pretty screwwed up. That marriage ended with me realizing that I couldn't trust my own judgement in women so that left me with the same option you guys have now which is "trust no one".
> 
> The thing is at least now you know to move slow. There's nothing wrong with being guarded. When you find the right woman then she'll wait on you and some morning you'll wake up and think why the hell am I not putting a ring on her.


I wish I could agree with this, but I found that woman once (or so I thought) and after 3 years of engagement and almost 12 years of (what I thought was good) marriage, she decided otherwise and thought it necessary to take that ring off and lay with other men. This just shows me that no matter how slow one goes and takes things, they can never really be sure that the trust they are giving is fully deserved or appreciated and that the person will not change and become the type of person that you despise.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

seagoat said:


> Wow!! And I thought *I* was in the gutters!!! :scratchhead: Are you happy in this place?


None of us in this place are happy, but happiness is all relative anyway as it can be great one moment and total crap the next (and that is with everything).


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

GettingBetter said:


> Exactly how I feel.
> Also to add that every time I see a family together I can't stop thinking how lucky those kids are to have their parents together.


I agree, except that when I see families together, I am so jaded that I think are they just putting on a nice front until the kids turn 18 and then they can separate. I know so many families that on the surface appear fine and are just together for the kids (I know this as they have told me this for a fact), or wonder if the kids know that one of the parents (if not both) are/ have been cheating on the other and the family.


Yep it has made me even more pessimistic, cynical, and untrusting than I was before (and I was bad before). I no longer value marriage and really question if life long love exists, or is it just momentary and temporary like most other things in life??


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I agree, except that when I see families together, I am so jaded that I think are they just putting on a nice front until the kids turn 18 and then they can separate. I know so many families that on the surface appear fine and are just together for the kids (I know this as they have told me this for a fact), or wonder if the kids know that one of the parents (if not both) are/ have been cheating on the other and the family.
> 
> 
> Yep it has made me even more pessimistic, cynical, and untrusting than I was before (and I was bad before). I no longer value marriage and really question if life long love exists, or is it just momentary and temporary like most other things in life??


I read these stories and think what the fvck is wrong with society, have we become this selfish and destructive?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Headspin said:


> Mmm no - not ever
> 
> Never again
> 
> ...





Squeakr said:


> I wish I could agree with this, but I found that woman once (or so I thought) and after 3 years of engagement and almost 12 years of (what I thought was good) marriage, she decided otherwise and thought it necessary to take that ring off and lay with other men. This just shows me that no matter how slow one goes and takes things, they can never really be sure that the trust they are giving is fully deserved or appreciated and that the person will not change and become the type of person that you despise.


My comment should move to the unpopular opinions thread maybe  . You guys are both right though. There are zero guarantees. Blind trust and risk free are both myth.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> Wow!! And I thought *I* was in the gutters!!! :scratchhead: Are you happy in this place?


How are you doing today? Hope yo are not hungover from the bottle of wine....


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> funny-- good question - I see women in a totally different light than I once did....I trusted women and had incredible faith in them. Never thought they would hurt me...trusted my judgment on women. Now I find myself seeing all women as pretentious lying and manipulative. Feel they put on big front but behind the scenes are scheming. Before, I thought there were "good" girls and "bad" girls...now I find myself clumping women into the same category. I also have no desire to get deep with another woman.....no sense if it is going to end anyway.
> Oddly, I do not value marriage anymore either. I used to see a married woman and think see was off-bounds because she was married but now I think "she probably screws around on her husband." So I feel okay looking at her.


My wife cheated.. I still think a woman that's married is off-bounds. If she's cheating, it'll be with someone that's not me.

When I told my wife that every time I see a woman on a cell phone, I think she's talking to her boyfriend. She said every woman she sees isn't cheating on her husband, that she feels like she's the only one. She said she's like "I bet she never cheated on her husband"... Thought that was interesting for what it's worth, if you can believe what a former wayward woman says.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

russell28 said:


> My wife cheated.. I still think a woman that's married is off-bounds. If she's cheating, it'll be with someone that's not me.
> 
> When I told my wife that every time I see a woman on a cell phone, I think she's talking to her boyfriend. She said every woman she sees isn't cheating on her husband, that she feels like she's the only one. She said she's like "I bet she never cheated on her husband"... Thought that was interesting for what it's worth, if you can believe what a former wayward woman says.


Russell I agree with your wife...


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How are you doing today? Hope yo are not hungover from the bottle of wine....


Doing fine! Had my breakfast a little later than usual today!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

seagoat said:


> Doing fine! Had my breakfast a little later than usual today!


Glad to hear it!!!


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Are you doing an counseling to help you? Any marriage counseling?


We started with one session and then both had to travel for our jobs. Me...just called a counselor this week.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

serenesoul said:


> We started with one session and then both had to travel for our jobs. Me...just called a counselor this week.


Is he willing to do the heavy lifting to repiar things?


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Seems like your frozen by fear and insecurity. There's more than this to marriage and partnership and you're selling yourself short by accepting it. Stepping down to his level will leave you feeling hollow inside and will further damage your self esteem as well. Maybe he's a good roommate in others ways but I can't see how he's a good husband in any form. Good luck serenesoul. I hope you find a way to see yourself as worth deserving better and the strength to do something about it.


There is one issue that has really kept me here more than anything, but maybe somehow I will gain the courage to leave if that is the best path. Your right about stepping down to his level and that is definitely no longer an option. Right now, I am placing my focus elsewhere so as not to stress. It's hard though...really hard.


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is he willing to do the heavy lifting to repiar things?


So he says...he does not want a divorce at all. But since then, there has been another incident with him getting the number of some girl he met at the bar & their text convo. That's what really broke me and changed me inside. And then the message to the ex. 

Granted we only had one session but it's difficult to be hopeful...especially when we are apart.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

russell28 said:


> My wife cheated.. I still think a woman that's married is off-bounds. If she's cheating, it'll be with someone that's not me.
> 
> When I told my wife that every time I see a woman on a cell phone, I think she's talking to her boyfriend. She said every woman she sees isn't cheating on her husband, that she feels like she's the only one. She said she's like "I bet she never cheated on her husband"... Thought that was interesting for what it's worth, if you can believe what a former wayward woman says.


That is interesting russell. It may be a sign of true remorse and shame on her part although I didn't reseach threads to see exactly what your current situation is with her. I also agree with you that married women *should* be off limits. For one thing it's dangerous. There's a lot of crasies (justified crasies) out there. For another, it would leave me feeling guilt or pity for her husband which I don't like very much.

It's probably good I'm happily married and it's not an issue. I never was good at shutting down a hottie on the prowl when I was single. It sucks to have to fess up to less than high character past.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

serenesoul said:


> So he says...he does not want a divorce at all. But since then, there has been another incident with him getting the number of some girl he met at the bar & their text convo. That's what really broke me and changed me inside. And then the message to the ex.
> 
> Granted we only had one session but it's difficult to be hopeful...especially when we are apart.


Are you doing IC?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

bigtone128 said:


> funny-- good question - I see women in a totally different light than I once did....I trusted women and had incredible faith in them. Never thought they would hurt me...trusted my judgment on women. Now I find myself seeing all women as pretentious lying and manipulative. Feel they put on big front but behind the scenes are scheming. Before, I thought there were "good" girls and "bad" girls...now I find myself clumping women into the same category. I also have no desire to get deep with another woman.....no sense if it is going to end anyway.
> Oddly, I do not value marriage anymore either. I used to see a married woman and think see was off-bounds because she was married but now I think "she probably screws around on her husband." So I feel okay looking at her.


^^^ You read my mind. This is exactly how I feel now as well.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> ^^^ You read my mind. This is exactly how I feel now as well.


While understandable this type of outlook can hurt you in the long run....


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> I think about it constantly two years later, it has become me. I found out about things that happened years earlier, when our kids were very young. All my memories are tainted now, the future seems bleak. I'm basically a shell of a person, I'm just going thru the motions of life. I've cried everyday since this happened. I have zero self confidence as he cheated with girls half my age. I feel old and blah... He lost his job cause of this, I had to go back to work. I feel trapped in a depressing world. Everything has changed, I see nothing to look forward to. I feel robbed of life, jealous when I see young families. Mine was a lie and I can never go back and regain it. I will never trust again, never believe a word he says. I lost my best friend, never really had one. I was tricked. And what my girls have been thru... OMG.


I forgot to add the worst part - the anxiety. I've pretty much felt anxious 24/7 for two years straight and it seems to not be lessening with time. I guess one day I'll have a stroke or heart attack, hopefully I'll go quick!


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Decimated said:


> Hurtingbadly, I'm sorry, this is how I feel as well. Your words have struck a chord with me.
> 
> Being a shell of a person and just going through the motions of life. I too have low confidence and self esteem. At times I am filled with despair…helpless and feel trapped. I so badly need intimacy and affection in which I was denied for so long, but I am now filled with distrust. I feel like no one is going to want me in the state I'm currently in, but since I don't trust anyone anyway…I am trapped.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I so relate. I took my girls to the beach last April and I felt the same way. I felt like we stood out, just myself and my girls that trip. It seemed everywhere I looked there were happy families. And the three of us were stressed, burned out, looked sad. We needed that trip, but it was also a reminder of what our family really was. They're old enough to understand. 

I also feel very lonely, in such need of companionship. Really, I can look back and think I felt neglected for many years... Now I know what should have been, but wasn't. I tried with him, but he was so wrapped up in the younger girls at work and getting attention. It's a life wasted I think. I'm not a nineteen year old girl, I'm a mom. But, I think I'm fairly cute. I can be fun. I don't understand really. I think somebody out there would have appreciated me. But, like you said I'm so screwed up in the head now, who would want that?!?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Decimated said:


> I have read these books since "D" day.
> 
> Not just friends
> Surviving Infidelity
> ...


I've read many of these, too. Doesn't help. Also been to two different individual counselors, two different marriage counselors. He went to another individual counselor on his own. I'd say the majority caused more problems... Bad advice.

He read that 100 page book you mentioned near the start of my discovery. Despite it warning to tell the complete truth, after reading it he continued to hide her identity from me for a full year. I only got her name the day before he took his poly, which BTW - he failed. I never got any answers from that, only more grief.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> I've read many of these, too. Doesn't help. Also been to two different individual counselors, two different marriage counselors. He went to another individual counselor on his own. I'd say the majority caused more problems... Bad advice.
> 
> He read that 100 page book you mentioned near the start of my discovery. Despite it warning to tell the complete truth, after reading it he continued to hide her identity from me for a full year. I only got her name the day before he took his poly, which BTW - he failed. I never got any answers from that, only more grief.


Wow..have you considered looking for a 3rd IC?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

bigtone128 said:


> funny-- good question - I see women in a totally different light than I once did....I trusted women and had incredible faith in them. Never thought they would hurt me...trusted my judgment on women. Now I find myself seeing all women as pretentious lying and manipulative. Feel they put on big front but behind the scenes are scheming. Before, I thought there were "good" girls and "bad" girls...now I find myself clumping women into the same category. I also have no desire to get deep with another woman.....no sense if it is going to end anyway.
> Oddly, I do not value marriage anymore either. I used to see a married woman and think see was off-bounds because she was married but now I think "she probably screws around on her husband." So I feel okay looking at her.


I feel the same way, just about men in general. I think they all cheat on their wives with college aged girls on business trips while their wife is home with the kids changing diapers. I just lump all men into that category now. It's sad because I was the faithful wife and you were the faithful husband, but look at what this has done to us and our opinion of the opposite sex.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Headspin said:


> Mmm no - not ever
> 
> Never again
> 
> ...


Well, in my case I stayed home to raise the kids, he cheated on business trips with young girls, covered it up for years until I was in my 40s. He goes off the deep end, loses his job. I'm now working a low paying job with no health insurance and he's making less than half what he made before. Kids are in their teens... So I'm stuck. I've run the numbers so many times. I can't afford to move out right now. I'd get nothing at this point. And what's wrong with this picture? He robbed me of options and opportunities when I was younger. I've read on this board many times the guys babbling about how there's plenty of girls out there wanting to date older men. So what about me? I just got screwed. So I'm working this job, hoping it will help my resume since I had those years off. Hoping one day I can get a better job and won't be turned away cause I'm in my 40s. This wasn't about money, this was about I thought we were a family and had each other's back.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> Well, in my case I stayed home to raise the kids, he cheated on business trips with young girls, covered it up for years until I was in my 40s. He goes off the deep end, loses his job. I'm now working a low paying job with no health insurance and he's making less than half what he made before. Kids are in their teens... So I'm stuck. I've run the numbers so many times. I can't afford to move out right now. I'd get nothing at this point. And what's wrong with this picture? He robbed me of options and opportunities when I was younger. I've read on this board many times the guys babbling about how there's plenty of girls out there wanting to date older men. *So what about me? I just got screwed. *So I'm working this job, hoping it will help my resume since I had those years off. Hoping one day I can get a better job and won't be turned away cause I'm in my 40s. This wasn't about money, this was about I thought we were a family and had each other's back.


Sh!tty people come in both male and female.....it's not fair to just blame women...I reject that totally


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow..have you considered looking for a 3rd IC?


I dunno. We're now broke cause of this mess, my new schedule doesn't really accommodate going to a counselor. I'm working long hours. The time I do have I'm devoting to my girls. I feel such guilt with them, like everything has been taken away from them. Maybe we can figure something out when he gets new insurance. He wants to save this marriage, easy for him to say since he lost it all. He's not exactly going on business trips partying anymore. We've had bad luck with counselors from the start. First one told me I didn't need to know what he did in the past, only what he's doing for the future. Helped seal the deal for me never getting what I need to heal. He was justified in continuing to lie to me. I'm forever in a state of doubt. Let's see... one other counselor told my youngest she is old enough to live with her dad if we split, so he uses that against me as a scare tactic. He tells her things like I told your mom I'm sorry, she's the one that can't get over it...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> I dunno. We're now broke cause of this mess, my new schedule doesn't really accommodate going to a counselor. I'm working long hours. The time I do have I'm devoting to my girls. I feel such guilt with them, like everything has been taken away from them. Maybe we can figure something out when he gets new insurance. He wants to save this marriage, easy for him to say since he lost it all. He's not exactly going on business trips partying anymore. We've had bad luck with counselors from the start. First one told me I didn't need to know what he did in the past, only what he's doing for the future. Helped seal the deal for me never getting what I need to heal. He was justified in continuing to lie to me. I'm forever in a state of doubt. Let's see... one other counselor told my youngest she is old enough to live with her dad if we split, so he uses that against me as a scare tactic. He tells her things like I told your mom I'm sorry, she's the one that can't get over it...


So he's really not remorseful?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> Well, in my case I stayed home to raise the kids, he cheated on business trips with young girls, covered it up for years until I was in my 40s. He goes off the deep end, loses his job. I'm now working a low paying job with no health insurance and he's making less than half what he made before. Kids are in their teens... So I'm stuck. I've run the numbers so many times. I can't afford to move out right now. I'd get nothing at this point. And what's wrong with this picture? He robbed me of options and opportunities when I was younger. I've read on this board many times the guys babbling about how there's plenty of girls out there wanting to date older men. So what about me? I just got screwed. So I'm working this job, hoping it will help my resume since I had those years off. Hoping one day I can get a better job and won't be turned away cause I'm in my 40s. This wasn't about money, this was about I thought we were a family and had each other's back.



Sorry you are in such a bad place, but you are like the rest of us. Unfortunately the way your writing reads, even though it wasn't about money in the beginning it is now all about that. You say you can't leave as you would get nothing and are in a dead end low paying job. You state you were robbed of options and opportunities as you were younger. You are worried about finding someone new. The fact is that you feel, like the rest of us, since you were honest and trustworthy that you deserve some sort or compensation for your troubles and pain. 

It will get better, but will take time. Now would be the perfect time for you to move on, since you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. The part about men dating is thrown out there as encouragement to BHs, as it is much easier for a woman to find someone than it is for a man, especially if the woman is trustworthy and honest (don't believe it just ask anyone in an open marriage whom has more problems finding partners). The older a man gets it is not as easy for him to find partners that are not looking for the "Sugar Daddy", and if he is not one finding a partner is not as easy. Look at everything out there and there is a term Cougar for woman, but no real equivalent for the male side (other than the <Sugar> Daddy figure). Older women that are good, upstanding, moral, trustworthy, and honest are definitely getting fewer in numbers and have little problems finding partners if they are actively looking. Your kids are getting old enough so that they will not be a deterent in finding a good partner either (not that they are but sometimes people aren't ready to sign on to relationships with younger children involved, this goes for both male and female).


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Sh!tty people come in both male and female.....it's not fair to just blame women...I reject that totally


True. I think this board is more heavily male so women get bashed more often. I understand cause I feel the same way about men cause of what I've been thru. I just want it known I didn't marry for money, I definitely won't be divorcing for money, I married for the long haul, honored my vows and thought of him as my partner in life, thought that as a family we looked out for each other. I didn't deny him sex, tried to make things better between us when I was the one feeling neglected...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Sorry you are in such a bad place, but you are like the rest of us. Unfortunately the way your writing reads, even though it wasn't about money in the beginning it is now all about that. You say you can't leave as you would get nothing and are in a dead end low paying job. You state you were robbed of options and opportunities as you were younger. You are worried about finding someone new. The fact is that you feel, like the rest of us, since you were honest and trustworthy that you deserve some sort or compensation for your troubles and pain.
> 
> It will get better, but will take time. Now would be the perfect time for you to move on, since you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. *The part about men dating is thrown out there as encouragement to BHs, as it is much easier for a woman to find someone than it is for a man, especially if the woman is trustworthy and honest (don't believe it just ask anyone in an open marriage whom has more problems finding partners).* The older a man gets it is not as easy for him to find partners that are not looking for the "Sugar Daddy", and if he is not one finding a partner is not as easy. Look at everything out there and there is a term Cougar for woman, but no real equivalent for the male side (other than the <Sugar> Daddy figure). Older women that are good, upstanding, moral, trustworthy, and honest are definitely getting fewer in numbers and have little problems finding partners if they are actively looking. Your kids are getting old enough so that they will not be a deterent in finding a good partner either (not that they are but sometimes people aren't ready to sign on to relationships with younger children involved, this goes for both male and female).


I disagree....good people who respect themselves can find another partner..it's when you let yourself go and indulge in self-destructive behaviors that it becomes difficult...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> True. I think this board is more heavily male so women get bashed more often. I understand cause I feel the same way about men cause of what I've been thru. I just want it known I didn't marry for money, I definitely won't be divorcing for money, I married for the long haul, honored my vows and thought of him as my partner in life, thought that as a family we looked out for each other. I didn't deny him sex, tried to make things better between us when I was the one feeling neglected...


He took the good stuff for granted..many WS do...their egos write checks their a**es can't cash when the bill comes due...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> I dunno. We're now broke cause of this mess, my new schedule doesn't really accommodate going to a counselor. I'm working long hours. The time I do have I'm devoting to my girls. I feel such guilt with them, like everything has been taken away from them. Maybe we can figure something out when he gets new insurance. He wants to save this marriage, easy for him to say since he lost it all. He's not exactly going on business trips partying anymore. We've had bad luck with counselors from the start. First one told me I didn't need to know what he did in the past, only what he's doing for the future. Helped seal the deal for me never getting what I need to heal. He was justified in continuing to lie to me. I'm forever in a state of doubt. Let's see... one other counselor told my youngest she is old enough to live with her dad if we split, so he uses that against me as a scare tactic. He tells her things like I told your mom I'm sorry, she's the one that can't get over it...


 I have had counselors tell my WW the same things. The saving grace is that they were nobodies really. They have a psychology degree and that is it. I pointed to her in several books written by PhD counselors that each person is different and the amount needed to know varies. I point to their credentials compared to our counselor (at the time) and show that several top noted people in the field don't agree. I always ask the counselor's background and if they have dealt with infidelity in their own marriage. If they haven't how can they judge what is really needed or not? These are valid points and shut down the arguments from the WS's side. 

When they use those types of scare tactics, I turn the table on them and show the children that it wasn't just me that was betrayed but them as well, so that they need and deserve the same apologies that were supposedly extended to me. I know not the best thing, but I do it in such a way that they see what she did was wrong, but don't make her out to be the total monster in all of this. The guilt is normal and all of us with BSs and children feel the same way.


Stick in there and good luck.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I have had counselors tell my WW the same things. The saving grace is that they were nobodies really. They have a psychology degree and that is it. I pointed to her in several books written by PhD counselors that each person is different and the amount needed to know varies. I point to their credentials compared to our counselor (at the time) and show that several top noted people in the field don't agree. I always ask the counselor's background and if they have dealt with infidelity in their own marriage. If they haven't how can they judge what is really needed or not? These are valid points and shut down the arguments from the WS's side.
> 
> When they use those types of scare tactics, *I turn the table on them and show the children that it wasn't just me that was betrayed but them as well,* so that they need and deserve the same apologies that were supposedly extended to me. I know not the best thing, but I do it in such a way that they see what she did was wrong, but don't make her out to be the total monster in all of this. The guilt is normal and all of us with BSs and children feel the same way.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Infidelity is a betrayal of the WHOLE family not just the spouse....


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> Sorry you are in such a bad place, but you are like the rest of us. Unfortunately the way your writing reads, even though it wasn't about money in the beginning it is now all about that. You say you can't leave as you would get nothing and are in a dead end low paying job. You state you were robbed of options and opportunities as you were younger. You are worried about finding someone new. The fact is that you feel, like the rest of us, since you were honest and trustworthy that you deserve some sort or compensation for your troubles and pain.
> 
> It will get better, but will take time. Now would be the perfect time for you to move on, since you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. The part about men dating is thrown out there as encouragement to BHs, as it is much easier for a woman to find someone than it is for a man, especially if the woman is trustworthy and honest (don't believe it just ask anyone in an open marriage whom has more problems finding partners). The older a man gets it is not as easy for him to find partners that are not looking for the "Sugar Daddy", and if he is not one finding a partner is not as easy. Look at everything out there and there is a term Cougar for woman, but no real equivalent for the male side (other than the <Sugar> Daddy figure). Older women that are good, upstanding, moral, trustworthy, and honest are definitely getting fewer in numbers and have little problems finding partners if they are actively looking. Your kids are getting old enough so that they will not be a deterent in finding a good partner either (not that they are but sometimes people aren't ready to sign on to relationships with younger children involved, this goes for both male and female).


Maybe. It just feels like men only want the young college girl. That's what our society puts out there. Just watch the TV! WH cheated with girls half my age. It didn't help DDay hit around my 40th birthday, at a time my own girls were growing up and didn't need me as much and when I was trying to reenter the workforce and felt the punch of being that 40 year old woman who took time off to raise her kids. You could say I'm in my own mid life crisis right now. Everything changed overnight.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I disagree....good people who respect themselves can find another partner..it's when you let yourself go and indulge in self-destructive behaviors that it becomes difficult...


 I agree with your statements and that was what I was referring to, as the statement was made that men are always saying on this site that there are plenty of woman wanting to date older men. It is nothing more than words of encouragement to drive the men (BHs in this case) to see that if they make the right choices and look out for themselves, it will work out in the end as they are good people. It still doesn't change the fact that it is easier for women to find partners than it is for men (that fact is true no matter the age).


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> So he's really not remorseful?


I don't really know. Sometimes I think he is, other times I think he's just a selfish jerk. He does some things right, but I'm pretty sure still has secrets. Sometimes he is compassionate, other times he gets defensive and mad. He's all about moving forward. He wanted to rug sweep from the start.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I agree with your statements and that was what I was referring to, as the statement was made that men are always saying on this site that there are plenty of woman wanting to date older men. It is nothing more than words of encouragement to drive the men (BHs in this case) to see that if they make the right choices and look out for themselves, it will work out in the end as they are good people. *It still doesn't change the fact that it is easier for women to find partners than it is for men (that fact is true no matter the age).*


I'm not sure about that in terms of serious reltionships...casual sexual partners or FWB - yes - definitely....women have the advantage of an easier target so to speak...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> I don't really know. Sometimes I think he is, other times I think he's just a selfish jerk. He does some things right, but I'm pretty sure still has secrets. Sometimes he is compassionate, other times he gets defensive and mad. *He's all about moving forward. He wanted to rug sweep from the start.*


Rug sweeping is unacceptable...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> Maybe. It just feels like men only want the young college girl. That's what our society puts out there. Just watch the TV! WH cheated with girls half my age. It didn't help DDay hit around my 40th birthday, at a time my own girls were growing up and didn't need me as much and when I was trying to reenter the workforce and felt the punch of being that 40 year old woman who took time off to raise her kids. You could say I'm in my own mid life crisis right now. Everything changed overnight.



I know where you are coming from and how you are feeling. I was 40 when my wife did it to me as well. It was with younger (not much, only a few years, but still younger) men than I. My girls are at the age that they are more independent and what needs they have are mainly for girly things that only the wife can meet and monetary, that we both provide. They have stopped really coming to me for the security and most things. I feel abandoned and like she helped to drive them away from me (I found out how she was bad mouthing me to everyone and degrading me behind my back and I know the kids have seen it firsthand, which makes me feel that she has helped to turn them against me). I am still young enough, yet am starting to have health issues from all of the hardwork and history that I put forth to provide for the family. It makes my future look bleak to me, as who wants a broken down worn out soul? If I was so awful as she has said (and she spread that lie freely) and not good enough for her, then why should anyone else want to take a chance on me?? I know where you are coming from and how you are feeling. I was also down-sized (through no fault of my own) a few years ago, and with the reduced earning power I feel even more worthless.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Rug sweeping is unacceptable...


And why I haven't and can't let it go. I haven't gotten closure.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> I know where you are coming from and how you are feeling. I was 40 when my wife did it to me as well. It was with younger (not much, only a few years, but still younger) men than I. My girls are at the age that they are more independent and what needs they have are mainly for girly things that only the wife can meet and monetary, that we both provide. They have stopped really coming to me for the security and most things. I feel abandoned and like she helped to drive them away from me (I found out how she was bad mouthing me to everyone and degrading me behind my back and I know the kids have seen it firsthand, which makes me feel that she has helped to turn them against me). I am still young enough, yet am starting to have health issues from all of the hardwork and history that I put forth to provide for the family. It makes my future look bleak to me, as who wants a broken down worn out soul? If I was so awful as she has said (and she spread that lie freely) and not good enough for her, then why should anyone else want to take a chance on me?? I know where you are coming from and how you are feeling. I was also down-sized (through no fault of my own) a few years ago, and with the reduced earning power I feel even more worthless.


I'm sorry. I understand. How many of us hurt souls are walking around out there? I heard an interesting song last night. Bruises from Train. I think it was written for those of us in mid life that are now coming out of relationships ended. Look up the lyrics.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Train - Brusies


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

This thing about the 'older man' is new for me 

I'm 58 now. I was with the stbx for 15 years and she was 20 years younger than me. We met when I was 41. We've been separated for a year and half nearly and I have had no urge to go anywhere near a woman in that time, not in the slightest bit interested. Feels a bit odd as I've always loved woman and always been very passionate throughout my relationships but I feel nothing for them right now - numb.

I recently thought about this and realized I'm probably going to have difficulties if I think I can just march in and pull someone 10 years my junior (I always had younger partners and younger friends all my life) 

Gonna be interesting when I finally start to rise up from the 'infidelity depths'! and start looking at prospective girl friends partners

I'm not optimistic if I'm honest - what comes of being repeatedly cheated upon in two relationships lasting 20 odd years


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Headspin said:


> This thing about the 'older man' is new for me
> 
> I'm 58 now. I was with the stbx for 15 years and she was 20 years younger than me. We met when I was 41. We've been separated for a year and half nearly and I have had no urge to go anywhere near a woman in that time, not in the slightest bit interested. Feels a bit odd as I've always loved woman and always been very passionate throughout my relationships but I feel nothing for them right now - numb.
> 
> ...


when the time is right why not look for a woman your own age?


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Why search for a partner by age at all?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

calmwinds said:


> Why search for a partner by age at all?


Don't you think too great an age difference can lead to problems down the line?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> I'm sorry. I understand. How many of us hurt souls are walking around out there? I heard an interesting song last night. Bruises from Train. I think it was written for those of us in mid life that are now coming out of relationships ended. Look up the lyrics.


When I am needing some relief (and wanting to cause some pain) I play the following two songs loudly at my house:

Brad Paisley - Facebook Friends:
Brad Paisley-FaceBook Friends - YouTube

and 

Jason Aldean - Just Passing Through:
Jason Aldean - Just Passing Through - YouTube

Facebook Friends could tell my story to a tee. It is exactly what she did, heck I even drive the mini-van!!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Don't you think too great an age difference can lead to problems down the line?



I tend to agree. Even though it is legal, I couldn't see where I would have much in common with anyone that wasn't within a reasonable amount from my age, such as at 42 I would have very little in common with 18-20 yr olds (even though dating would be legal). I honestly couldn't see myself being attracted or having much in common with someone that was 10-12 years different in age than myself. I work with several 25-26 year olds and we have a different mentality when it comes to responsibilities and life outlook/ expectations. The maturity level difference is just too great.


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Don't you think too great an age difference can lead to problems down the line?


Yes, I do believe that. Headspin had mentioned he didn't think he could pull a woman 10 years his junior at his age. I'm just wondering why a person would limit themselves to a junior age group. I do admit that when I was between marriages, I dated a much younger man. Although the physical part was great for me and a learning experience for him, that's all we really had in common. I had a career, a son, and a plan for my life, which he thought was great. He also thought I should have bought him a brand new convertible:scratchhead:

That was only a ten year age difference, and we both had different ideas about life. He was carefree and fun, which was awesome for a distraction, but not something I looked for in a life partner. I imagine being an older gentleman is much the same. It's great to have a trophy on your arm, but what are you looking to achieve? I'm 46 now, and I'm an RN working in a health care facility that serves ~85% male patients. I see men ten years my senior on a regular basis, and cannot entertain for one moment a relationship with someone that much older (or younger) if I were single. Not that I think 50+ is old, just that people change how they think over time. I know it works for some people, I just don't get the rationale for ONLY looking for a certain age group for relationships.


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> but look at what this has done to us and our opinion of the opposite sex.


True enough...I know this is part of the process. It just tells me I am not ready for another relationship.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

calmwinds said:


> Why search for a partner by age at all?


Nature stacked the deck so many women are ok with a generation older man but not too many men are ok with a generation older woman.

It mostly links back to procreation and differences in what we find attractive. Of course it's only the averages I'm talking about.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

I doubt I will ever have another relationship if/when this one ends. Just not worth the hassle or the hurt in this case. I am older probably than some of the members here, but I have no desire to seek out another relationship. My WS chose a skank one year younger than he is, or actually she chose him, but he allowed it to happen. She saw a weakness, zeroed in and has molded herself to his every fantasy complete with sex in public. Well that has been put on hold for now but I am sure if we don't work it out that will happen. What ever he wants, she provides it, no matter how kinky. maybe that is why he told me she was not long term material, but she surly thinks she is. I think she is his plan B. She told him right after they split that she would wait for him until she took her last dying breath :-(


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How has it effected other areas of your life?


Since my husband is a serial cheater, I feel like it has changed my entire life. I feel a lack of trust towards everyone. Even when my teens tell me something, in the back of my head, I am thinking, are you lying to me?

I also am more aware of things when we go out in the public. I am now watching other couples all the time. Just trying to figure out how other husbands treat their wives compared to my husband.

I can't stay focused on anything. And with two of my children going to college this year, I really have to try hard to focus on important issues.

I am now on anti-depressants. I am in IC and MC. And like I said it is the first thing I think about when waking up and the last thing I think about before bed.

I am also doubting my ability to judge people's character. I really thought my husband would never do this to me!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Sweet Ginger said:


> Since my husband is a serial cheater, I feel like it has changed my entire life. I feel a lack of trust towards everyone. Even when my teens tell me something, in the back of my head, I am thinking, are you lying to me?
> 
> I also am more aware of things when we go out in the public. I am now watching other couples all the time. Just trying to figure out how other husbands treat their wives compared to my husband.
> 
> ...


How has our husband been behaving? remorseful?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: Infidelity is a betrayal of the WHOLE family not just the spouse....


So True. She not only betrayed me, she betrayed our children too!


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How has our husband been behaving? remorseful?


I think he is somewhat remorseful. But he still does not show me any respect. To give you an idea, he had a genital wart removed yesterday, per my request. So he calls me from work today three times to let me know exactly what he wants to do to me with his wart free body part. The thing is he is talking very vulgar, almost like I am a prostitute. I am only three months from DD and I still have mind movies and he doesn't get that what he did makes it hard for me to go back to our normal sex life. I would think if he respected me he would give me some time.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Sweet Ginger said:


> I would think if he respected me he would give me some time.


If this were true, you wouldn't be here, just like the rest of us.


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> When I am needing some relief (and wanting to cause some pain) I play the following two songs loudly at my house:
> 
> Brad Paisley - Facebook Friends:
> Brad Paisley-FaceBook Friends - YouTube
> ...


Wow, the Facebook song says it all, uh?


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## hurtingbadly (Sep 14, 2011)

Headspin said:


> This thing about the 'older man' is new for me
> 
> I'm 58 now. I was with the stbx for 15 years and she was 20 years younger than me. We met when I was 41. We've been separated for a year and half nearly and I have had no urge to go anywhere near a woman in that time, not in the slightest bit interested. Feels a bit odd as I've always loved woman and always been very passionate throughout my relationships but I feel nothing for them right now - numb.
> 
> ...


Why do you feel you need to find a woman ten years younger than you? And your stbx was 21 when you were 41? 
So this is exactly why I feel like I do about men. 
So WH cheated on me with a 19 year old when I was 32, contacted her again when she was 24 and I was 37, now I'm 42 and had ten years robbed from me. So ya, I feel no man is gonna want me at my age. He robbed me of the chance of finding someone else when I was younger. You kinda just proved my point. Women are really the ones that get screwed over. I gave my better years to him raising his children and this is the thanks I get.


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## seagoat (Feb 4, 2012)

Wazza said:


> A variation on this theme. Trust always has limits now. I do not seek that magical person I can trust absolutely. I don't believe they exist.


They do.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

hurtingbadly said:


> Wow, the Facebook song says it all, uh?


Man oh man! A bit triggering. Sounds like he's been there or he is very close friends with someone who has.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Sweet Ginger said:


> I think he is somewhat remorseful. But he still does not show me any respect. To give you an idea, he had a genital wart removed yesterday, per my request. So he calls me from work today three times to let me know exactly what he wants to do to me with his wart free body part. The thing is he is talking very vulgar, almost like I am a prostitute. I am only three months from DD and I still have mind movies and he doesn't get that what he did makes it hard for me to go back to our normal sex life. I would think if he respected me he would give me some time.


Is he fvcking serious? How remorseful can he be if he talks to you like that while you are still in a tremendous amount of pain?


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## blackdiamonds (Jun 26, 2013)

He doesn't trust me anymore. No matter how much I try, I know that I shattered his trust and I won't be able to fully regain that ever again.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

My Grandmother's husband left her for another woman back in the forties. She raised four children by herself and did a tremendous job. 

She never remarried and only had one boyfriend in the 50-some years after my grandfather left.

My grandmother was so pretty and funny and super multi-talented I could never figure out why she never remarried or even had a man in her life. She was so great. 

Now, Unfortunatly, I totally understand.

I can't predict the future but I have ZERO interest in ever being in a relationship again.

Oh, and I'm pretty, funny, and multi-talented.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thor said:


> Man oh man! A bit triggering. Sounds like he's been there or he is very close friends with someone who has.


I agree but it is one of those songs that just does something to me so I listen to it every now and then. It definitely does something to my WW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

hurtingbadly said:


> Why do you feel you need to find a woman ten years younger than you? And your stbx was 21 when you were 41?
> So this is exactly why I feel like I do about men.
> So WH cheated on me with a 19 year old when I was 32, contacted her again when she was 24 and I was 37, now I'm 42 and had ten years robbed from me. So ya, I feel no man is gonna want me at my age. He robbed me of the chance of finding someone else when I was younger. You kinda just proved my point. Women are really the ones that get screwed over. I gave my better years to him raising his children and this is the thanks I get.


Hang on a second!

You feel bad about men because I had a wife 20 years my junior ?!

Look, I've always had much younger friends, younger girl friends and younger married partners. That's no crime and I've given each and every one of them a damn good time so much so they ended up taking it for granted taking me for granted especially the last two. 

Listen I'm angry embittered about my last two and it's put me in a very nasty place in not trusting a woman again. However deep down I know that _all woman are not like that _and I've been a bit unlucky and being an enabler brought some of it down upon my own head. Right now at my age I can't see how I can trust another after the incessant cheating

An age difference has no bearing on how I feel.

I understand totally about not trusting because one has had numerous bad cheating experiences but not because of an age difference in general 

And another thing woman are not the ones who get screwed over - anyone who gets betrayed lied and crushed in infidelity gets screwed over - and that goes right across the board

With all respect I do sense you're looking at this in a bit of a distorted way


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

blackdiamonds said:


> He doesn't trust me anymore. No matter how much I try, I know that I shattered his trust and I won't be able to fully regain that ever again.


Are you both in counseling?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rugs said:


> My Grandmother's husband left her for another woman back in the forties. She raised four children by herself and did a tremendous job.
> 
> *She never remarried and only had one boyfriend in the 50-some years after my grandfather left.
> 
> ...


It's so unfair that a WS can take so much from the BS..


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

What's really sad about this is 'the %100'

You feel you just cannot give the full %100 to it anymore.

I know any woman taking me on deserves to have 'all of me' the full %100 .........but sadly it is not going to happen


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> It's so unfair that a WS can take so much from the BS..


....and to make matters so much worse, they will / can never seem to fully and honestly understand what they stole from you, nor can they accept that it's likely to not ever be really "fixable".


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

To me the magnitude of infidelity would be me walking out of the house and likely not seeing her again until the custody hearing. I never emotionally understood infidelity. Why do it??? I get the reasons intellectually, but trying to put myself in those shoes...even when I dream of cheating on my wife I can't do it. Not just because it is wrong, it is just not me. Even porn turns into fantasies of her. 

If you want to avoid a cheating spouse, you have to know them really well and get to know about their family. I ALWAYS start relationships out as open-ended friendships. Oh you want to have sex right away? Ok you get put into the booty-call file and taken out of serious consideration for monogamy. You don't want to have sex until at least we are "going together" and have declared our monogamy? Ok, that puts a girl into the "you can take her seriously"file. Then it gets to knowing them and their parents. Have they cheated before? Are they from a family where one or more parents have cheated? Lots to consider.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

ohno said:


> To me the magnitude of infidelity would be me walking out of the house and likely not seeing her again until the custody hearing. I never emotionally understood infidelity. Why do it??? I get the reasons intellectually, but trying to put myself in those shoes...even when I dream of cheating on my wife I can't do it. Not just because it is wrong, it is just not me. Even porn turns into fantasies of her.
> 
> If you want to avoid a cheating spouse, you have to know them really well and get to know about their family. I ALWAYS start relationships out as open-ended friendships. Oh you want to have sex right away? Ok you get put into the booty-call file and taken out of serious consideration for monogamy. You don't want to have sex until at least we are "going together" and have declared our monogamy? Ok, that puts a girl into the "you can take her seriously"file. Then it gets to knowing them and their parents. Have they cheated before? Are they from a family where one or more parents have cheated? Lots to consider.


....very good viewpoint on the whole "enduring relationship" thing.

....perhaps that's why I'm having such a difficult time putting my wife's ONS (from 19 yrs ago) behind me? Our dating relationship ...became a committed relationship ...and then the sex became part of that (more than 6 months after I first met her). Add to that ....that we were each other's "firsts". Something so personal as sex ...was even more special because we had only shared it with one another. And, even though she's been faithful and committed to our relationship since her ONS .....it's still in the back of my mind ....with frequent trips to the front page of my thoughts.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....and to make matters so much worse, they will / can never seem to fully and honestly understand what they stole from you, nor can they accept that it's likely to not ever be really "fixable".


If the relationship ends they get to move on without the triggers and the mind movies the BS has...


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> If this were true, you wouldn't be here, just like the rest of us.


Your are right about that. I wonder if a WS ever shows the BS respect after an affair?


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## Sweet Ginger (Mar 25, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is he fvcking serious? How remorseful can he be if he talks to you like that while you are still in a tremendous amount of pain?


I don't think he is really remorseful. He only shows remorse in front of the MC and sometimes our children. I just wonder if he thinks I want to be talked to in a vulgar manner or if he just doesn't care? Or maybe it is a turn on for him to talk like that to all women?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Sweet Ginger said:


> I don't think he is really remorseful. He only shows remorse in front of the MC and sometimes our children. I just wonder if he thinks I want to be talked to in a vulgar manner or if he just doesn't care? Or maybe it is a turn on for him to talk like that to all women?


You need to bring that up in MC - that you feel he is only remorseful in MC....he needs to do the heavy lifting...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Hurtin_Still said:


> Add to that ....that *we were each other's "firsts"*. Something so personal as sex ...was even more special because we had only shared it with one another. And, even though she's been faithful and committed to our relationship since her ONS .....it's still in the back of my mind ....with frequent trips to the front page of my thoughts.


This is I think a valid part of your hurt. Very few of us married the person we first had sex with. I think for us the sex is more personal and more meaningful than when there have been many lovers.

The fact that she has been with someone else does reduce the sanctity of that exclusiveness you had. Sex doesn't have to be some mystical magical thing, which would be ruined forever if you're both not virgins. But you do reveal something very private of yourself when you have sex, and you do have to feel great trust in the other person. She has now broken that exclusivity and she has cheapened the act of sex between you.

Modern society will shout at you that you are wrong to have feelings or concerns about your partner's other lovers. Don't let society tell you that your feelings are not allowed.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> This is I think a valid part of your hurt. Very few of us married the person we first had sex with. I think for us the sex is more personal and more meaningful than when there have been many lovers.
> 
> The fact that she has been with someone else does reduce the sanctity of that exclusiveness you had. Sex doesn't have to be some mystical magical thing, which would be ruined forever if you're both not virgins. But you do reveal something very private of yourself when you have sex, and you do have to feel great trust in the other person. She has now broken that exclusivity and she has cheapened the act of sex between you.
> 
> Modern society will shout at you that you are wrong to have feelings or concerns about your partner's other lovers. Don't let society tell you that your feelings are not allowed.


:iagree:


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....very good viewpoint on the whole "enduring relationship" thing.
> 
> ....perhaps that's why I'm having such a difficult time putting my wife's ONS (from 19 yrs ago) behind me? Our dating relationship ...became a committed relationship ...and then the sex became part of that (more than 6 months after I first met her). Add to that ....that we were each other's "firsts". Something so personal as sex ...was even more special because we had only shared it with one another. And, even though she's been faithful and committed to our relationship since her ONS .....it's still in the back of my mind ....with frequent trips to the front page of my thoughts.


That has to be so tough, sorry. My first was when I was 16 and she ended up sleeping with and going with one of my best friends who became a worst enemy and two groups of friends fought pretty bitterly for years. It tore a hole in me that I think I still have baggage from 24 years later. I could not even imagine my wife being my first and that happening. 

That said I want to give you some horrible advice that could destroy your marriage. I am a believer in "hair of the dog that bit you" which means in relationship terms, the best way to get over the pain in your heart that only a special woman can give you is to indulge in another woman yourself. You are long past that though I think. 

Some better advice-To me, cheating kills a relationship. It is dead. If there is an underlying FRIENDSHIP, you have to let the relationship die and and let go of it enough to allow a new relationship to emerge from the foundation that is the friendship. 

19 years is a looong time to live with that kind of pain my friend. You gotta let it go. On the plus side 19 years is also a long time to allow for some really positive new memories and shared experiences to happen. Not sure how you would do it, but you gotta let go of everything prior to 19 years. Otherwise you are dragging a corpse around with you and no one should have to do that for the rest of their life. 

Best of luck!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

ohno said:


> That said I want to give you some horrible advice that could destroy your marriage. I am a believer in "hair of the dog that bit you" which means in relationship terms, the best way to get over the pain in your heart that only a special woman can give you is to indulge in another woman yourself. You are long past that though I think.


It is not horrible advice but it is risky advice.

For me, I know a part of my issues are the fact that my wife has had others, whereas I have not. Part of it is a feeling of inferiority or of not being "in the know". Me going out and having sex with another woman would not be in terms of revenge but of achieving some sort of parity with her.

I think part of the issue piggybacks onto the infidelity mindset. It is an extension of the cake eating idea. Not only did she get to cake eat, she got something I never had. So she sort of holds it over me at least subconsciously. The cheater always remembers the thrill and always knows the full story, and can feel sort of superior or as if they got one over on the BS. She's had other lovers and knows she knows something I don't.

It gives her some power in the relationship out of a perceived weakness that I won't go out and bang other women. While I see it as a strength, she can see it as a weakness. 

Going out and evening up the score should only be done if it is a real obstacle to progress without it, and only with open agreement about it being done and why. It may be a necessary part of the healing process for him, but it could be something she could never get over.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> They are only capable of pity.


False.
Continued healing.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> You lost me. They are only capable of pity. They cannot love you if they have cheated on you. They had to have lost respect and love for you to cheat. The only thing they can do is look on you with pity.
> 
> I do not understand what you mean when you say continued healing? That is what they feel for you? Continued healing? Did you even look at the question I was answering?


I'm sorry, I was wishing for you continued healing. Nothing more.

2ntnuf, I believe I understand where you come from; i've read your story in different threads. I get you are not in a postition to see past the way your ex wife behaved and you don't have to care nor bother to challenge it. I'ts OK. Its iactually a testimony of the magnitude of infidelity as the title says. I just failed to shut the f0ck up when you generalized. Truth is not every person who cheats is the same. I'll leave it there. This was not precisely he right thread to discuss the piece I quoted.

Wish you well.


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## ohno (Jul 11, 2013)

Thor said:


> It is not horrible advice but it is risky advice.
> 
> For me, I know a part of my issues are the fact that my wife has had others, whereas I have not. Part of it is a feeling of inferiority or of not being "in the know". Me going out and having sex with another woman would not be in terms of revenge but of achieving some sort of parity with her.
> 
> ...


That is a rough state of mind. Seems caught between cooperation and competition and the cheater gets to set which one it is. To me it is not necessarily evening up the score as it is doing something for ones self. You voluntarily kind of chain yourself to someone when you are monogamous. It is supposed to be a mutual deal. When the other breaks that chain and you are still chained to them...

That is what I mean by the relationship being dead once someone cheats. That deal is broken. Hair of the dog really just cuts your bonds also, puts a fork in, the final nail in the coffin and so on. It is like putting something out of its misery so something new can begin. No one wants to be a cuckold. 

To be very honest, and I mean no offense to anyone, any girlfriends I had in the past who cheated I simply treated them like f-buddies after I found out (especially after the first one). That is what it often becomes because yes, you respect them less. No honor in being someones fool. And wearing the fools hat or the cuckolds horns over a period of time will definitely erode ones own self esteem imo. That can have serious social and financial consequences in some cases. Some people are hurt less by the lack of intimacy than by being made a fool of in front of everyone they know. When I get suspicious or at all feeling less than trusting it is just as much about "she better not be making an ass out of me" as it is a violation of a feeling of intimacy. 

There are really some ancient interpersonal dynamics at play here. 

Its a bad subject with no real happy ending.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Thor said:


> It is not horrible advice but it is risky advice.
> 
> For me, I know a part of my issues are the fact that my wife has had others, whereas I have not. Part of it is a feeling of inferiority or of not being "in the know". Me going out and having sex with another woman would not be in terms of revenge but of achieving some sort of parity with her.
> 
> ...



Thor,

After a certain point, may I suggest you sit your wife down and tell her these things. Make a note of things you should tell her so you dont forget during the sit-down.

You know (or strongly suspected but couldn't proof because she's accomplished) and she knows, and she knows that you know.

I remember your story/background and you still haven't been able to get past it.

I also understand you may not want to do this 'cause the end result could be a massive shakeup and disruption. Tough call.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

The cheater has no idea at all how it effects the spouse. No idea at all that my heart/soul are shattered.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

aug said:


> Thor,
> 
> After a certain point, may I suggest you sit your wife down and tell her these things. Make a note of things you should tell her so you dont forget during the sit-down.
> 
> ...


There's a conversation in the near future for us, though this particular aspect of "getting parity" is not part of it. If we end up in MC it probably will come up at some point.

Though I was never able to find definitive proof, I am convinced that a number of the suspicious events are indeed smoking guns, as opposed to just my imagination or over reactions. As I have felt all along, the trust is the real issue rather than a data point of if/when she had sex with someone else. A recent serious attempt at deception on her part has reset me back to ground zero on all of this.

I broke the #1 rule for a pilot. Never come home early from a trip without calling first. I walked in on an attempt to hide from me a significant health care issue with one of the kids. Funny, but the confirmation of her continued attempts at deception puts those smoking guns in a clearer more certain light.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> The cheater has no idea at all how it effects the spouse. No idea at all that my heart/soul are shattered.


How are you dealing with your broken heart poly?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Thor,

Wow...really sorry to hear that.

Its bad enough to face possible deception and dishonesty from a spouse in regards to the M.

But to be denied the ability to know what is going on in your own kids lives, especially since it was serious?

That is a really horrible thing to hear.

Stay strong my friend.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How are you dealing with your broken heart poly?


I have been in IC since the end of March when I first found out. Right now I am in survival mode, getting our house ready to list, cleaning out clutter, lots of clothes for the womens shelter, making plans for my future alone. We still share the same house, so it will be hard to see him everyday knowing he will one day no longer be my husband, but life goes on and I will be ok. Actually I will be free to travel a bit more, visit my daughters in TX and AK and just generally not have to deal with his moods, him snarking on me about the least thing, and only be responsible for me and my baby girl Sheltie 

Yes I will be sad, lonely and miss him, but I fully believe things happen for a reason and if it is meant for our marriage to continue it will even tho both of us really don't want it right now.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> I have been in IC since the end of March when I first found out. Right now I am in survival mode, getting our house ready to list, cleaning out clutter, lots of clothes for the womens shelter, making plans for my future alone. We still share the same house, so it will be hard to see him everyday knowing he will one day no longer be my husband, but life goes on and I will be ok. Actually I will be free to travel a bit more, visit my daughters in TX and AK and just generally not have to deal with his moods, him snarking on me about the least thing, and only be responsible for me and my baby girl Sheltie
> 
> Yes I will be sad, lonely and miss him, but I fully believe things happen for a reason and if it is meant for our marriage to continue it will even tho both of us really don't want it right now.


Good for you about the counseling..it pays to be proactive in these circumstances....you will find a way throgh it....


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> Thor,
> 
> Wow...really sorry to hear that.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

The medical condition is relatively minor, this particular route of treatment is one I have long been opposed to, and she knew it. Standard treatments had not been followed, so the condition was still there. She decided for some reason to just go ahead without my knowledge or consultation.

That's the f'd up part of all this. If she'd had a conversation with me, we could have come up with a good plan together which ultimately may have included this treatment option if nothing else worked.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ohno said:


> To me the magnitude of infidelity would be me walking out of the house and likely not seeing her again until the custody hearing. I never emotionally understood infidelity. Why do it??? I get the reasons intellectually, but trying to put myself in those shoes...even when I dream of cheating on my wife I can't do it. Not just because it is wrong, it is just not me. Even porn turns into fantasies of her.
> 
> *If you want to avoid a cheating spouse, you have to know them really well and get to know about their family.* I ALWAYS start relationships out as open-ended friendships. Oh you want to have sex right away? Ok you get put into the booty-call file and taken out of serious consideration for monogamy. You don't want to have sex until at least we are "going together" and have declared our monogamy? Ok, that puts a girl into the "you can take her seriously"file. Then it gets to knowing them and their parents. Have they cheated before? Are they from a family where one or more parents have cheated? Lots to consider.


:iagree: That is extremely practical and wise advice. You need to go into any relationship knowing as much about the person and their background as possible. It is still not 100% but it gives you a mch better chance.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: That is extremely practical and wise advice. You need to go into any relationship knowing as much about the person and their background as possible. It is still not 100% but it gives you a mch better chance.


:iagree: But the problem is that cheaters are liars, so you will never know when they are telling the whole and total truth. (and when it comes to cheating, most won't tell about family, friends, or themselves cheating in past relationships, as they feel it is none of your business, just the same way they react when you catch them cheating on you).


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> :iagree: But the problem is that cheaters are liars, so you will never know when they are telling the whole and total truth. (and when it comes to cheating, most won't tell about family, friends, or themselves cheating in past relationships, as they feel it is none of your business, just the same way they react when you catch them cheating on you).


Agreed but you can get a feel for the type of person they are by seeing what their families are like and how they treat other relationships in their life. Nothing is 100% though....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> I have been in IC since the end of March when I first found out. Right now I am in survival mode, getting our house ready to list, cleaning out clutter, lots of clothes for the womens shelter, making plans for my future alone. We still share the same house, so it will be hard to see him everyday knowing he will one day no longer be my husband, but life goes on and I will be ok. Actually I will be free to travel a bit more, visit my daughters in TX and AK and just generally not have to deal with his moods, him snarking on me about the least thing, and only be responsible for me and my baby girl Sheltie
> 
> Yes I will be sad, lonely and miss him, but I fully believe things happen for a reason and if it is meant for our marriage to continue it will even tho both of us really don't want it right now.


Polywog - how are you doing today?


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Polywog - how are you doing today?


Some better thank you. The emotions come and go. I know I have to accept it and move on but it is just hard to imagine my life as single at this stage.


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

Mine still had all the indicators. 

Sudden disinterest. Left the house suddenly and once she was out SHUT DOWN. Faked counseling but was ready to divorce the SECOND I was ready. 

Paid $2k to a mediator to divorce without a second thought....

and now wants to pretend like she never left.

My bets are still on an affair but she denies it and it to cowardly to open up willingly if she doesn't have to.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

somethingnewmaybe said:


> Mine still had all the indicators.
> 
> Sudden disinterest. Left the house suddenly and once she was out SHUT DOWN. Faked counseling but was ready to divorce the SECOND I was ready.
> 
> ...


Does she still contact you a lot after the divorce?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> Some better thank you. The emotions come and go. I know I have to accept it and move on but it is just hard to imagine my life as single at this stage.


You will survive and thrive no matter what your relationship status is...


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## somethingnewmaybe (May 12, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Does she still contact you a lot after the divorce?


She's done a few fitness tests to test communication and I have hung out at her new place once. however after we went mediation I saw her lie to my face about her income more of the truth of who she was started to come out. So I started the 180, and created an email only boundary. She dealt with the boundary fine but she didn't like that I had no interest in talking to her when I drop off our child.

other than that she is completely receded into whatever life she has going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

somethingnewmaybe said:


> She's done a few fitness tests to test communication and I have hung out at her new place once. however after we went mediation I saw her lie to my face about her income more of the truth of who she was started to come out. So I started the 180, and created an email only boundary. She dealt with the boundary fine but she didn't like that I had no interest in talking to her when I drop off our child.
> 
> other than that she is completely receded into whatever life she has going on.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah the less chit chat the better - you are not her friend...


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> You will survive and thrive no matter what your relationship status is...


I know. I was single for many years before we got together. He is in shock today that I am actually moving forward with divorce. He just does not understand why I will not allow contact with a w*ore from Orlando. She is an old friend blah blah uh no old friend became more when that line to sex was crossed. I am just done. 

I am sick that he looks at videos she sent him of herself going at it. My daughter said she wants him to remember what he can get. A male friend of mine said she was just nasty and those vids would come back to haunt her. He said she has laid all her wares out there and there is nothing left as a mystery, it will not last. :scratchhead:


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> I know. I was single for many years before we got together. He is in shock today that I am actually moving forward with divorce. He just does not understand why I will not allow contact with a w*ore from Orlando. She is an old friend blah blah uh no old friend became more when that line to sex was crossed. I am just done.
> 
> *I am sick that he looks at videos she sent him of herself going at it.* My daughter said she wants him to remember what he can get. A male friend of mine said she was just nasty and those vids would come back to haunt her. He said she has laid all her wares out there and there is nothing left as a mystery, it will not last. :scratchhead:


She's a real class act huh? Sheesh...


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

It's bizarre how you can be in false Recon but still think of it as true Recon. I started to get confused by the signals - the big thing was that all the words were there from her. Not gushing devotion but words like "the affair is done, I want to be with you, I just want to move past it, I know I wrecked it....". But the actions aren't really there. I had to step back and really take the blinkers off and see what was happening. The thing is she is only giving what she's got, there's is nothing else. So naturally I can't help wondering that despite what she says there is still plenty within her that she is just not able or willing to share with me. 

The real big thing for me is that I have lost sight of what is a healthy relationship for a man who is over 50. You come to accept what you have got (or not got). I have to admit I do not understand what is a reasonable thing to accept in terms of intimacy. I'm rip roaring ready to go! And I do remember now, that early in Recon she said "we are not 18 anymore". Another diversion? She was certainly acting that way last year with that POSOM I said. Then silence.


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Are you doing IC?


Made a call to start last week, but the number must have been wrong. Ended up speaking to a very close friend who gave me some sound advice though. Separation is definitely now an option for me, where it really was not before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

hurtingbadly said:


> I feel the same way, just about men in general. I think they all cheat on their wives with college aged girls on business trips while their wife is home with the kids changing diapers. I just lump all men into that category now. It's sad because I was the faithful wife and you were the faithful husband, but look at what this has done to us and our opinion of the opposite sex.


I tend to believe that there are a minority of faithful men out there who truly love their spouses. But I also believe that men have had the advantage/upper hand in most societies for generations and largely have abused their position. Now more women are giving it back to them. Some of the good men are getting hurt unfortunately. But they have to also place blame on the generations of men who took for granted and took advantage of their wives and those who continue that today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

serenesoul said:


> I tend to believe that there are a minority of faithful men out there who truly love their spouses. But I also believe that men have had the advantage/upper hand in most societies for generations and largely have abused their position. Now more women are giving it back to them. Some of the good men are getting hurt unfortunately. But they have to also place blame on the generations of men who took for granted and took advantage of their wives and those who continue that today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I disagree...I think most men are faithful. WWs cheating on good men does not make things more "equal" - it's just the same destructive behavior - oh and those good men who get cheated on - well they are never the same again and many never look at women in quite the same way. *The blame for women cheating does not fall to cheating men but to the cheating women themselves. Cheating men share NONE of the blame for cheating women and vice versae.*


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I disagree...I think most men are faithful. WWs cheating on good men does not make things more "equal" - it's just the same destructive behavior - oh and those good men who get cheated on - well they are never the same again and many never look at women in quite the same way. *The blame for women cheating does not fall to cheating men but to the cheating women themselves. Cheating men share NONE of the blame for cheating women and vice versae.*


Well, I believe the cheating women are guilty, but generations of wrongdoing have had an effect. Hurt people hurt people. It is true that no equality is gained by more women joining the cheating train. But I honestly cannot say that most men are faithful either...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

serenesoul said:


> Well, I believe the cheating women are guilty, *but generations of wrongdoing have had an effect.* Hurt people hurt people. It is true that no equality is gained by more women joining the cheating train. But I honestly cannot say that most men are faithful either...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Presumably the women doing the cheating did not live through the "wrongdoing"...I think selfish people will be selfish people...


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Presumably the women doing the cheating did not live through the "wrongdoing"...I think selfish people will be selfish people...


Yes, these women did live through it as children of these unions, and it does have an effect (on female AND male children). Certainly selfish people will be selfish people, but selfishness often breeds selfishness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> She's a real class act huh? Sheesh...


Yeah she is. She is supposed to be a smart lady but apparently not if she will send those via email. I think it has hit him that he now may get that wish of spending his last years with *THAT* :rofl:

I was waiting for him to dare to try to view one at home over the weekend. I would have been right there to blast him once more for being so stupid/inconsiderate. He did not thank goodness. She sent 4 vids and a pic - nasty. One would not open so I had a friend convert it for me. He was a bit shocked at it himself and told me not to view it because it was so nasty. He said trust me you do not want to see it.  Somehow he was able to get info off the vid/pic and it shows exactly where she is, but I already knew where she lived. Are folks actually that stupid now days?

All I can say is have her and live happily ever after with the nasty skank.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

The way my WW has changed me. Well after going though all the anger and distrust I am at a point of not giving a chit anymore. I have 4 kids and I am the bread winner and there is no out for me. No way to sustain two households so I am suck for at least the next few years. It's just a shame that my kids have to deal with this. I just wish my WW would have just left with her om it would have been a hole lot easier.


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> The way my WW has changed me. Well after going though all the anger and distrust I am at a point of not giving a chit anymore. I have 4 kids and I am the bread winner and there is no out for me. No way to sustain two households so I am suck for at least the next few years. It's just a shame that my kids have to deal with this. I just wish my WW would have just left with her om it would have been a hole lot easier.


Very sorry to hear. So your WW is still there...and is she working at all?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ody360 (Feb 1, 2013)

Unfortunately it changed how i viewed people. I use to trust unless given reasons not to. With what i have got to experience and stuff i have read no one is 100% safe that it will or would never happen to them. Least that is how i thought. Not no more. All i worry about now is my kid and me. I figure if those two parts of the equation are taken care of then who ever is along for the ride in my life gets what they get. I will not spend my life trying to please everyone else, that's how i use to be.. Unfortunately not any more.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

serenesoul said:


> Very sorry to hear. So your WW is still there...and is she working at all?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep one big happy family. She lacks the skills and drive to get a real job. She now works a pt job that has the summers off. The only time in our 17 year marriage she did get a ft job she winds up banging one of her coworkers.


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## Seahawks (Jun 26, 2013)

Truthseeker,

Infidelity has impacted every facet of my life. I'm going on 2 years of finding out some of the facts and about 1.5 years of knowing even more. I have not been the same at work.....once motivated to grow and have great client relationships I now don't return client phone calls and have extensive trouble focusing.

My patience with my children is much less than it used to be. I will typically just go up into my room and watch TV alone instead of having "family" time with them.

I sleep a ton more than I ever have. I have no ambition. I'm preoccupied all the time.

I can barely look at my wife and say I love her.

The only positive I see is that I am more self-centered than I used to be. I used to be a people pleaser and now I do things for myself.

I am now taking depression medication and ADD meds that help boost my mode....missing a dose is very detremental and I feel that I "need" these drugs to function.

No motivation to improve myself......a short time after finding out about the PA I was big into self improvement.....now I haven't done anything in at least a year.

Very low sex drive.....again, shortly after learning about the affair I had a high sex drive.......now I don't....especially towards my wife.

In essence I have allowed the infidelity to destroy my spirit. It feels like I stood in front of a cannon and somebody blew 3/4 of me away. I know I can only help myself by making some tough decisions.


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## serenesoul (Jan 19, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> Yep one big happy family. She lacks the skills and drive to get a real job. She now works a pt job that has the summers off. The only time in our 17 year marriage she did get a ft job she winds up banging one of her coworkers.


Disgusting. I pray things get better for you and you have the strength to push through. Karma will have its way with her one day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Seahawks said:


> Truthseeker,
> 
> Infidelity has impacted every facet of my life. I'm going on 2 years of finding out some of the facts and about 1.5 years of knowing even more. I have not been the same at work.....once motivated to grow and have great client relationships I now don't return client phone calls and have extensive trouble focusing.
> 
> ...


Seahawks - you will rise again and I mean that in every sense of the word. Everyone here wants you to get your mojo back. It will never be quite the same mojo but it will be a new mojo. I am praying that you will see that spark, because that spark is there Seahawks. And when you spot it grab it with both hands you will be forever glad you did. I don't need to tell you that your children need you. You know that. Even if you have to drag yourself up by your boot straps then do it. The clarity and the energy will return Seahawks but you have to do some of the work. I'm certain the TAM family would support me telling you that we are with you. Never give up Seahawks, I'm in a similar boat but I just keep chipping away at it - two steps back, one step forward, f**king up half the time but headed in the right direction. You are worth it mate!

Best wishes to you Seahawks


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

serenesoul said:


> Disgusting. I pray things get better for you and you have the strength to push through. Karma will have its way with her one day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah I am wondering what I did lol. Must have been in a past life.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

Seahawks said:


> Truthseeker,
> 
> Infidelity has impacted every facet of my life. I'm going on 2 years of finding out some of the facts and about 1.5 years of knowing even more. I have not been the same at work.....once motivated to grow and have great client relationships I now don't return client phone calls and have extensive trouble focusing.
> 
> ...


.....*tough decisions* .....that's the key. Figure what ones you need to do for YOU ...and then do it. 

....I've dealt with my wife's ONS for more than 18 years. I've internalized so much angst, shame, grief, fury ....that it also killed my spirit. I'm not the person that I should have become. I had SO much ambition .....and it went away in the blink of an eye.

....I've found a pretty darn good therapist and, with her help, have regained some of my old _"damn the torpedoes ...full speed ahead"_ mentality for dealing with life. 

....but it's work ...believe me ...it's hard work. I'm doing it ....I will get better ...and if she wants to come along for the ride ...it's my ticket and my rules.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Seahawks said:


> Truthseeker,
> 
> Infidelity has impacted every facet of my life. I'm going on 2 years of finding out some of the facts and about 1.5 years of knowing even more. I have not been the same at work.....once motivated to grow and have great client relationships I now don't return client phone calls and have extensive trouble focusing.
> 
> ...


Sorry for your situation - are you in IC? Is she remorseful? Doing the heavy lifting?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> Yep one big happy family. She lacks the skills and drive to get a real job. She now works a pt job that has the summers off. The only time in our 17 year marriage she did get a ft job she winds up banging one of her coworkers.


Has she ended her affair? Is she showing remorse?


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Has she ended her affair? Is she showing remorse?


Affair ended a year and a half ago. In the beginning she was remorseful but now she is back to her old self and does not want to deal with it anymore. I am more angry than I have ever been in my life. Between working 2 jobs and the bs she pulled I just wish there was a way out.


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## Seahawks (Jun 26, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Sorry for your situation - are you in IC? Is she remorseful? Doing the heavy lifting?


I believe the affair has ended for quite some time.....however, are we ever really sure? She is remorseful.........she went to IC to try and figure herself out, we have been to MC to try and figure us out, I have been to IC to figure myself out. We haven't done counseling for months. I will say it helps but I would also say that neither one of us is really doing any heavy lifting to make our relationship better.......I think we are both depressed about the whole situation.


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## Seahawks (Jun 26, 2013)

Horizon said:


> Seahawks - you will rise again and I mean that in every sense of the word. Everyone here wants you to get your mojo back. It will never be quite the same mojo but it will be a new mojo. I am praying that you will see that spark, because that spark is there Seahawks. And when you spot it grab it with both hands you will be forever glad you did. I don't need to tell you that your children need you. You know that. Even if you have to drag yourself up by your boot straps then do it. The clarity and the energy will return Seahawks but you have to do some of the work. I'm certain the TAM family would support me telling you that we are with you. Never give up Seahawks, I'm in a similar boat but I just keep chipping away at it - two steps back, one step forward, f**king up half the time but headed in the right direction. You are worth it mate!
> 
> Best wishes to you Seahawks


Thanks Horizon.......I appreciate the pep talk and although horrible, I do appreciate that this forum exists that have other people going through the same anguish........I have a belief that one's life is like a roller coaster with many ups and downs.......I am experiencing one of my biggest downs of my life but I will fight back and will have higher highs than I've ever had. It's just so damn hard to take a few steps forward......gotta stop feeling sorry for myself and get moving on with life.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> Affair ended a year and a half ago. In the beginning she was remorseful but now she is back to her old self and does not want to deal with it anymore. I am more angry than I have ever been in my life. Between working 2 jobs and the bs she pulled I just wish there was a way out.


Are you making plans to leave the marriage? Sounds like a terrible situation...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Seahawks said:


> Thanks Horizon.......I appreciate the pep talk and although horrible, I do appreciate that this forum exists that have other people going through the same anguish........I have a belief that one's life is like a roller coaster with many ups and downs.......I am experiencing one of my biggest downs of my life but I will fight back and will have higher highs than I've ever had. It's just so damn hard to take a few steps forward......gotta stop feeling sorry for myself and get moving on with life.


Do you want to divorce your WW?


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## Seahawks (Jun 26, 2013)

That's a great question Truthseeker, I ask myself that multiple times daily. I am always weighing the pros and cons.

In thinking about divorcing I feel that I can't allow anybody to disrespect me so badly the way she did. My wife had an affair for 2 years during our marriage and attempted to contact the OM after we were already going to MC. We live in a smaller community and everyone in the community knows and the OM's family lives in the community as well and we have to see them constantly. The OS has a version of what happened but doesn't seem to want to discuss it with me. The bottom line is I can't get over the duration or the attempted contact after going to MC. In addition, looking at it from a grass is greener on the other side it seems that a fresh start and figuring myself out would be very helpful in getting away from the constant time and energy wasted on deciding to stay or go and thinking about the affair.

In thinking about staying I feel significant guilt leaving my children and the potential impact a D could have on them. I grew up in a single parent household with a parent that later married a complete $$shole as a spouse. I often wonder if my experiences growing up negatively impacted what I perceive a marriage is and I don't want to continue the chain with my children. Also, I have known my wife and her family since childhood, we were high school sweathearts and she knows me better than anyone ever will.

I'm in the state of limbo.....I come to this site for support but I know that I need to make the decisions that are right for me.


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## Bratz09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I wasnt sure on how to get a new post to get some feedback hope I am doin this right as I am new to this site. 3 yrs ago I decided to move out of my home that my husband and I shared just for 1 year as we were married in 09. I moved in with my mother and divorce papers were filed.....I started talking to another guy and it lead to intercourse within 2 weeks and I realized right then and there I had made a mistake and withdrew from the situation and started re thinking on giving my husband a second chance to redeem our marriage. We got a new home and started to try to start over. Time went by and we attended some counseling session in regards to what he says was an "affair" he constantly harrassed me about my mistake and would call me horrible names and make me feel like dirt. We were on the up and down road for 1 1/2 then I ended up pregnant in march of 2012. During 6 months of my pregnancy he had an open affair...keep in mind we lived under same roof and he did not leave nor file papers like I did when I moved out and said I was finished. Once I caught him in the affair he continued and did not stop til I was put on bed rest at 29 weeks pregnant...... After I had our son I thought everything was finally put behind as now he had no leg to stand on throwing my affair in my face cause what he had put me thru. These past couple weeks all he keeps saying is he cant get over what I done constantly ask the same questions over and over and over again. I am absolutely sick and tired of talking about it, it seems all he wants to do is throw my mistake in my face and how bad it still hurts him but not thinking all he has put me thru???? Will he ever get over this and just be happy or how can I help him?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bratz09 said:


> I wasnt sure on how to get a new post to get some feedback hope I am doin this right as I am new to this site. 3 yrs ago I decided to move out of my home that my husband and I shared just for 1 year as we were married in 09.* I moved in with my mother and divorce papers were filed.....I started talking to another guy and it lead to intercourse within 2 weeks and I realized right then and there I* had made a mistake and withdrew from the situation and started re thinking on giving my husband a second chance to redeem our marriage. We got a new home and started to try to start over. Time went by and we attended some counseling session in regards to what he says was an "affair" he constantly harrassed me about my mistake and would call me horrible names and make me feel like dirt. We were on the up and down road for 1 1/2 then I ended up pregnant in march of 2012. *During 6 months of my pregnancy he had an open affair.*..keep in mind we lived under same roof and he did not leave nor file papers like I did when I moved out and said I was finished. Once I caught him in the affair he continued and did not stop til I was put on bed rest at 29 weeks pregnant...... After I had our son I thought everything was finally put behind as now he had no leg to stand on throwing my affair in my face cause what he had put me thru. These past couple weeks all he keeps saying is he cant get over what I done constantly ask the same questions over and over and over again. I am absolutely sick and tired of talking about it, it seems all he wants to do is throw my mistake in my face and how bad it still hurts him but not thinking all he has put me thru???? Will he ever get over this and just be happy or how can I help him?


Did you start talking to the other guy after you separated and filed? If you were separated these two incidents are in no way comparable. If you were talking to the OM before you separated then it could be considered an EA. *You both need marriage counseling..you both have unresolved issues that have not been fully dealt with. *

What about his affair? How are you dealing with that? What were is reasons for cheating? *You can not rug sweep that either.*


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## Bratz09 (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes I started talking to the other guy after we seperated but he believes in his mind that I started before and wont except my answer (truth) I feel yes they are not comapriable what to ever due to the fact of what I went thru while pregnant with our first child! He would come home and shower and get ready and absically say I am going to her house not sure if I will be home, etc.....it was a huge sick mess! I am dealing with it fine I am sttrong person and have been thru a physical abusive relationship prior to me marrying my husband and I always tell myself to look for the postive in life an dnot dwell on something I can not change. His reason for cheating was to make me hurt like I hurt him, not to mention since we have been together in 2009 he immediately cheated with the mother of his daughter several times and when that finally ended we did great and decided to get married and then he started being very selfish and never paid attn to me so i seeked and talked to another guy just by phone and he still continued to talk to other women by email and phone as well...all this happened before I left him and since I have been back in 2011 I have never seeked any sort of communiation with another man and he has .....I just felt we were past it all and now he is rehashing everything.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bratz09 said:


> Yes I started talking to the other guy after we seperated but he believes in his mind that I started before and wont except my answer (truth) I feel yes they are not comapriable what to ever due to the fact of what I went thru while pregnant with our first child! He would come home and shower and get ready and absically say I am going to her house not sure if I will be home, etc.....it was a huge sick mess! I am dealing with it fine I am sttrong person and have been thru a physical abusive relationship prior to me marrying my husband and I always tell myself to look for the postive in life an dnot dwell on something I can not change. His reason for cheating was to make me hurt like I hurt him, not to mention since we have been together in 2009 he immediately cheated with the mother of his daughter several times and when that finally ended we did great and decided to get married and then he started being very selfish and never paid attn to me so i seeked and talked to another guy just by phone and he still continued to talk to other women by email and phone as well...all this happened before I left him and since I have been back in 2011 I have never seeked any sort of communiation with another man and he has .....I just felt we were past it all and now he is rehashing everything.


This does not sound like a healthy relationship at all. So let me get this straight - he cheated on you not once but twice. What are you trying to save with this man exactly?


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## Bratz09 (Aug 14, 2013)

He has cheated several times with mother of his daughter and I have talked to someone by phone as well....we have grown up together and are highschool sweethearts i love him dearly I am just tired of the roller coaster and everytime I feel we are on a level field he flips and reverts back to living and dwelling on the past...Also we have a 10 month old son and I am trying to keep our family together or Iwouldnt have styed while I was pregnant....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bratz09 said:


> He has cheated several times with mother of his daughter and I have talked to someone by phone as well....we have grown up together and are highschool sweethearts i love him dearly I am just tired of the roller coaster and everytime I feel we are on a level field he flips and reverts back to living and dwelling on the past...Also we have a 10 month old son and I am trying to keep our family together or Iwouldnt have styed while I was pregnant....


Bratz - you both need marriage and individual counseling. Your old marriage is dead and it is time to build a new one. *But you both have to want that. *Is he willing to do the hard work? I'd say you should start with IC if he will not see a marriage counselor to help you sift through this mess of emotions. your husband sounds like an angry man - he needs to work on that as well. What is his relationship with his ex now?


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## Bratz09 (Aug 14, 2013)

WE both recently have discussed couseling but he feels that it will just make these emotions and thoughts about my so called affair linger......Yes he is an angry person and I feel doesnt know how to be happy with all that we have! Misery loves company they say! He says he wants to live happy and stay together but then repeatedly self destructs it all when we are doing well! He still has to talk to his ex due to the fact when he wants to see his daughter she is quite a bit older and I will never be comforatble with their communication cause I dont trust her either you give her an inch and she takes a mile....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bratz09 said:


> *WE both recently have discussed couseling but he feels that it will just make these emotions and thoughts about my so called affair linger*......Yes he is an angry person and I feel doesnt know how to be happy with all that we have! Misery loves company they say! He says he wants to live happy and stay together but then repeatedly self destructs it all when we are doing well! He still has to talk to his ex due to the fact when he wants to see his daughter she is quite a bit older and I will never be comforatble with their communication cause I dont trust her either you give her an inch and she takes a mile....


Umm..tell him the feelings are already lingering....he needs to figure otu why he is so angry and destructive....and you both need to deal with the issues in this marriage fully if you are going to move on...


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## Bratz09 (Aug 14, 2013)

I agree completely just soooo tired of going in this vicious circle this happened 2 years ago and his affair just 1 year ago i have accepted it and moved on from it just dont know why he cant do the same...but he says its harder for a man to get over things like that


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bratz09 said:


> I agree completely just soooo tired of going in this vicious circle this happened 2 years ago and his affair just 1 year ago i have accepted it and moved on from it just dont know why he cant do the same...but he says its harder for a man to get over things like that


You slept with someone once while separated - he had a 6 month affair while you were pregnant. I do think without counseling you will never get out of this pit of pain you are both in.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Are you making plans to leave the marriage? Sounds like a terrible situation...


Yeah but it's more like a 5 year plan. I can't sustain 2 households on what I make and I don't want my kids living in a 1 bedroom apartment.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> Yeah but it's more like a 5 year plan. I can't sustain 2 households on what I make and I don't want my kids living in a 1 bedroom apartment.


Do you think she's cheating again?


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Do you think she's cheating again?


I very highly doubt it but I really don't care. Her om just got married a few months back and I am sure his wife keeps tabs on him. As for anyone else I just don't see it but you never know.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> I very highly doubt it but I really don't care. Her om just got married a few months back and I am sure his wife keeps tabs on him. As for anyone else I just don't see it but you never know.


Do you tell her you are not satisfied with the way she is acting?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Bratz09 said:


> WE both recently have discussed couseling but he feels that it will just make these emotions and thoughts about my so called affair linger......Yes he is an angry person and I feel doesnt know how to be happy with all that we have! Misery loves company they say! He says he wants to live happy and stay together but then repeatedly self destructs it all when we are doing well! He still has to talk to his ex due to the fact when he wants to see his daughter she is quite a bit older and I will never be comforatble with their communication cause I dont trust her either you give her an inch and she takes a mile....


Hey Bratz, hows it going?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Very true:

*"Love is understood, in a historical way, as one of the great human vocations - but its counterspell has always been infidelity. This terrible, terrible betrayal that can tear apart not only another person, not only oneself, but whole families." - Junot Diaz*
*
"People are always fascinated by infidelity because, in the end - whether we've had direct experience or not - there's part of you that knows there's absolutely no more piercing betrayal. People are undone by it." - Junot Diaz *


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Great quotes. I agree 100%, there are so many layers to the pain. There's also the mental confusion of trying to make sense of it and understand why. Once we realize that you can only grasp it to a point and are unable to get into the cheaters' head and heart, you know the only thing to do is move on let go of it all.


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## Eleftherios (Aug 15, 2013)

It f's up everything. I can no longer look at my WW the same. My kids lost feelings for. The way it went down makes her look like a tramp. The list goes on and on. I have a very unique last name she has soiled it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> Great quotes. *I agree 100%, there are so many layers to the pain. *There's also the mental confusion of trying to make sense of it and understand why. Once we realize that you can only grasp it to a point and are unable to get into the cheaters' head and heart, you know the only thing to do is move on let go of it all.


Yeah the pain goes so deep...it truly is piercing..and cheaters will NEVER understand it - ever - unless they are cheated on - which is why over the years I've become an agnostic about "revenge affairs" - I used to think they were not worth the time - now I'm not so sure....the more stories I read the more I think in some cases the cheater could use a strong does of their own medicine...and their own set of mind movies...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Eleftherios said:


> It f's up everything. *I can no longer look at my WW the same.* My kids lost feelings for. The way it went down makes her look like a tramp. The list goes on and on. I have a very unique last name she has soiled it.


And thing will never be the same..ever...it is more about salvage than anything...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Yeah the pain goes so deep...it truly is piercing..and cheaters will NEVER understand it - ever - unless they are cheated on - which is why over the years I've become an agnostic about "revenge affairs" - I used to think they were not worth the time - now I'm not so sure....the more stories I read the more I think in some cases the cheater could use a strong does of their own medicine...and their own set of mind movies...


In recent discussions with my IC we have talked about different personality types within relationships. Some people are selfish and lack true empathy. These people can be sweet and helpful at times, yet there is always an underlying selfish motivation. That motivation could be reasonable, yet it is selfish. Other people can be unselfish in relationships. So then you find yourself in the situation of the unselfish person wondering "Why did the other person do that? I would NEVER do such a thing".

Keep in mind that the selfish person has no concept of being wronged unless it relates to taking away something they want.

So if the selfish person has an affair, the other person is left devastated at the personal betrayal. The BS felt a union with their spouse, and now that bond has been broken. But the WS _never felt that union_. A revenge affair is of little consequence to the original WS as long as they don't fear losing something they want.

The revenge affair will not hurt the original WS most likely. It will only leave the BS feeling even more upset because they see how little it means to the WS, and thus it further confirms how little the BS really means to the WS.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thor said:


> In recent discussions with my IC we have talked about different personality types within relationships. Some people are selfish and lack true empathy. These people can be sweet and helpful at times, yet there is always an underlying selfish motivation. That motivation could be reasonable, yet it is selfish. Other people can be unselfish in relationships. So then you find yourself in the situation of the unselfish person wondering "Why did the other person do that? I would NEVER do such a thing".
> 
> Keep in mind that the selfish person has no concept of being wronged unless it relates to taking away something they want.
> 
> ...


You make excellent points in some cases the Ws is so selfish that revenge must take other forms to drive the point home. However in some cases the WS suffering through their partners infidelity is just the shot their ego needs to snap them out of their fog...I didn't always think this way but after reading many stories on TAM my views began to change..some WS do need their ego knocked down several notches...


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Very true:
> 
> *
> "People are always fascinated by infidelity because, in the end - whether we've had direct experience or not - there's part of you that knows there's absolutely no more piercing betrayal. People are undone by it." - Junot Diaz *


That second quote is correct. However, after reading and experiencing this whole thing myself it seems many of us need to have the apple cart overturned. Because short of that, nothing wakes them up.

I see stories all the time of a guy who bends over backwards, does what he thinks he should, gives up _everything_ for a spouse and is repaid with pain. 

I see stories of stoic housewives who dutifully see to the needs of their house, be loyal supportive women. And they too are punished. 

The common theme i see among most BSs is their habit of self sacrifice. They toil and go without while the soon to be, or current, WS does not.

They pass on hobbies, free time, comfort, so that their significant other can do as they like. They watch the kids for guys night out, or girls night out. They turn down that new shirt because the WS wants this or that. 

In short, they give so others can get. They often leave little for themselves. They shoulder the heavy burdens. (this is often, but not always.) 

And that's no way to live. 

But you can't upset the order without chaos. You need to rock the boat to give you the chance to change things. 

The WS provides the chance for that. They wreck it all, in a strange way doing a favor for the betrayed. 

And often i'll see people post "but we were so happily married, i dont know how they could cheat." but generally if you stick around long enough in their threads, reality starts to intrude. 

In a lot of cases they realize they weren't really all that happy. They weren't getting sex, companionship, an emotional connection etc. Often they felt used and taken for granted. 

Maybe i'm projecting my own situation onto others, but this does seem to be a common theme. 

I can't count how many times i've seen the question "have you read no more mr nice guy?" or how often a poster is asked "where's your spine?" And living without a spine is never good, no matter how much denial someone is in. 

Show me someone that gets walked all over and i'll show you someone that's unhappy.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

awake1 said:


> That second quote is correct. However, after reading and experiencing this whole thing myself it seems many of us need to have the apple cart overturned. Because short of that, nothing wakes them up.
> 
> I see stories all the time of a guy who bends over backwards, does what he thinks he should, gives up _everything_ for a spouse and is repaid with pain.
> 
> ...


That was my situation to the enth degree A1. And I didn't think about it, didn't consider the sacrifices, I was so used to it - unconscious to the fact. Not any more. While many of us are givers none of us should downplay the extent of the dependency in such behavior.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Horizon said:


> That was my situation to the enth degree A1. And I didn't think about it, didn't consider the sacrifices, I was so used to it - unconscious to the fact. Not any more. While many of us are givers none of us should downplay the extent of the dependency in such behavior.


Yea it's some kind of mutant martyr complex.

What was even MORE horrific to me, aside from the wife's cheating, was that if she hadn't i'd _still_be doing it. I'd still be giving it all, telling myself i'm happy so long as she's happy.

She'd be riding me, talking down to me, yelling at me, and i'd down my beer and say "life is good". She'd go out with friends, spend money on herself, go to concerts, talk to all kinds of men at all hours of the day. Telling herself how much better they are than me.

Had she not cheated I would put up with it the rest of my life, not realizing the personal misery I was in. Like a horse with blinders on not seeing the bigger picture.

It took losing what I thought was everything, to realize I actually had nothing. I thought her cheating meant I lost her love, but it had been years since I had it. I thought it was the end of my life, but it was a new start. I thought her yelling meant I was ugly, unworthy of love. I realized i'm not unworthy, she was. I was actually a fine husband. Not perfect, but better than many out there. I was loyal, sacrificing, tried many things to get her to reengage in the relationship long ago. Never cheated with ample opportunity. I worked extra jobs so she didn't have to pitch in more. I helped clean. I ate foods I hated and watched TV shows I loathed because that's what she liked. 

I think either the spouse changes at some point, and our perception is outdated, or we see what we want to see. That, imo, makes swallowing all the years of undue sacrifice easier and allows it to continue. Then a negative feedback loop starts, where we do ever more hoping for some kind of affection. 

I don't think my tale is all that unique in the way it unfolded. At least to me, it seems like aside from the cheater script, the BH/BW script, there's a script for a lot of these marriages that end up mired in infidelity.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

awake1 said:


> That second quote is correct. However, after reading and experiencing this whole thing myself it seems many of us need to have the apple cart overturned. Because short of that, nothing wakes them up.
> 
> I see stories all the time of a guy who bends over backwards, does what he thinks he should, gives up _everything_ for a spouse and is repaid with pain.


I agree with your whole post. Except that I have come to the opinion that really in most cases the best response to infidelity is to D the cheater. Most infidelity involves calculated intentional first sex, and then many lies and deceptions after that to continue the affair. Most infidelity involves the BS having suspicions and asking questions, only to be lied to and gas lighted. Once D-Day happens, there is trickle truth.

All of these are indicators of the core values and core belief system of the WS.

The BS has probably never really known their spouse. Their marriage probably never was what they thought it was. As you point out, they have sacrificed and been generous, while the WS has always been the taker. The dynamic worked for a while, which kept the BS in the dark.

Just D and be done with it. A revenge affair isn't ever going to affect the selfish WS the way we want.


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## ineverthought (Jan 13, 2013)

It's the most devastating that has ever happened and ever will happen to me. As hard as I try sometimes, i dont know if this anger will ever go away. I lost my best friend. We were in a bubble of safety, love and protection, or so I thought. What a naive fool I am. 

He still works with her everday, in a tiny little office with only one other person. The wound is marinated with salt everday  and he doesn't understand why my anger is still so intense. I consider it a good day when I don't cry. When I found out he told me he hasnt been this in love with someone since we were first in love. 

We have been together for 23 years, married 16. He was my high school sweetheart. My stupid f*#king night in shining armor, my happily ever after (barf). He was my safe place. And what really stings is he now how fragile I was. I have a mother who is very cruel and targets me and he swore he would never hurt me. Sometimes it's sureal. He's a complete stranger. We have 2 young children so I'm working very hard to figure out what the h*ll to do. 

I actually googled "can you die of a broken heart" today. We are 9 months since DDay and my sadness just sits with me. 

My hurt an anger are so bad and my mood js so all over the place that he got worried I'm bipolar. At the recomendation of a psychiatrist I ended up in as an inpatient psychiatric ward for a week (last week). It actually ended up being the best thing that could have ever happened to me. 

He says he's sorry and hates that he brought this pain into my life but he doesn't get it. He says over and over if he knew how badly this would hurt me he would have never done it. That statement p*sses me off. I want him to regret doing it because it was wrong and cruel, not because I ended up shattered. He says he's doing everything he can to make it right and when I ask him what it is exactly that he's doing. He gets flustered ans never answers. 

While in the hospital, I wanted to put into words why I had reached that point. I wrote my own personal answer, never intended to be shared. But I'd like to post it:

Why?

This pain has been escalating since his affair. It wasnt the affair so much as the aftermath. 

It was the way he blamed me for his unhappiness, it was the way he told me he was so unhappy for the last 10 years but never said a word. 
It was the way he could not find empathy for me as i lay on the floor crying yet somehow he found empathy for her. 
It was the way he could so carelessly list off all that he loved about her as I sat on the bathroom floor so complety deflated.
It was the way he justified replacing his best friend and partner. 
It was the way he sounded when he said those words.
It was the way he was missing her as I was missing him. 
It was the way he used our love as a comparison when he told her he was in love with her. 
It was the way he worked one on one with her every day since Ii found out and says it's not an issue.
It's knowing that his decision to slow things down with her had nothing to with me.
It's because i sometimes think he still feels justified. 
It's the way after months of reassuring me that I knew everything, 3 weeks ago when i asked him "are u sure there isnt anything else i shld know" , his answer was "r u sure u really want to have this conversation". 
And its because I now feel like I am married to a stranger and it scares the sh*t out of me. 
It's because we have kids in the mix and it makes it not just about me. 
And it's that I know i will never be able to trust anyone again. A part of me is hardened forever. 
It's realizing that if i listen to my gut i dont think i can ever forgive and get past all of this. 
I feel foolish. 
It's the way I felt like he had my back no matter what. I was wrong.
And how ironic it is that in my "life story" i now have this piece. I now get to say "my husband had an affair and i ended up in the nut house". 
Yet i am stronger for the experience.
It's the way I naively believed that my husband was the person i was finally 100% safe with.
It's because I thought he was the person I could finally let my guard down with. 
It was the way I thought I found the person who, without a doubt, would never judge me. In this bubble I was safe. It was unconditional. 
That is the real betrayl. He was supposed to always protect me, the way I protect him and he was so selfish he didnt stop to think what this wld do to a person like me. He was my safe place.


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## Is It Just Me (Sep 8, 2012)

ineverthought, that was so incredibly sad to read. 

I really hope you'll feel better one day.


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## "joe" (Aug 19, 2013)

i am so sorry ineverthought, remember that we're all here because we've had similar experiences and we're all supporting each other. 



ineverthought said:


> It was the way he blamed me for his unhappiness, it was the way he told me he was so unhappy for the last 10 years but never said a word.


this very thing happened to me too. she was unhappy for three years, it was all my fault, but she never said anything until she was already into something else.


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## StarGazer101 (Jan 26, 2013)

ineverthought - your words hurt to read because they were so close to how mine would have been if I'd been able to write them. I'm further from DD than you (17 months) and I have found strength and a way forward - I know you will too. Keep reading and posting here it really does help.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

ineverthought said:


> It's the most devastating that has ever happened and ever will happen to me. As hard as I try sometimes, i dont know if this anger will ever go away. I lost my best friend. We were in a bubble of safety, love and protection, or so I thought. What a naive fool I am.
> 
> He still works with her everday, in a tiny little office with only one other person. The wound is marinated with salt everday  and he doesn't understand why my anger is still so intense. I consider it a good day when I don't cry. When I found out he told me he hasnt been this in love with someone since we were first in love.
> 
> ...


You are still with this person? He is deep in fog, and needs to be knocked out.. 

9 months out, you should be getting 100% honesty, he should have no contact with her, you should have total transparency in all places.. full disclosure.. he should be working so hard to help you heal, it doesn't sound like he's doing any of these things. He might need divorce papers to wake him up.. and if it doesn't wake him up, it will help you regain your self respect and self esteem, and fix yourself since he's not willing to help fix what he's broken... Make it clear to him that you're not a doormat. Be strong. Is he still seeing this woman? He should have had no contact, her boyfriend/husband should have been made aware of the affair (she'd probably end up with a new job), or he should have volunteered to quit his job for you etc.. It doesn't sound like any of these things are happening. You need to worry about you.. and your children. Your children deserve a mother that is happy, and that is treated with love and respect... first you have to start respecting yourself, buy telling him to gtfo if he doesn't start treating you better. Let him know there are many men out there that would appreciate you and you'd rather be with someone that's good to you than someone that hurts you.. if he wants to be that person, you might consider giving him the gift of a second chance.. I could go on, there are many threads on here that show what you really need to R, and you aren't getting any of those. It sounds like it's a false R... he is a cake eater, and you are enabling it by never putting divorce on the table, and perhaps by not exposing the affair..


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ineverthought said:


> It's the most devastating that has ever happened and ever will happen to me. As hard as I try sometimes, i dont know if this anger will ever go away. I lost my best friend. We were in a bubble of safety, love and protection, or so I thought. What a naive fool I am.
> 
> He still works with her everday, in a tiny little office with only one other person. The wound is marinated with salt everday  and he doesn't understand why my anger is still so intense. I consider it a good day when I don't cry. When I found out he told me he hasnt been this in love with someone since we were first in love.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for sharing this...every WS should read th is....


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## ineverthought (Jan 13, 2013)

Thank you. I decided to share it via email with my husband. He never responded or said anything to me so I looked to see if he got it (something I NEVER used to, I hate feeling like I have to monitor someone, esp someone I trusted). He did get it....and deleted it 

We are going to start a new type of MC next week. I found us a Gottman trained therapist. I am hopeful. 

I am hanging in here for my kids. If I can at least get us to a place where I can stand being around him I can make some decisions from there. (this is not something I would ever say about this person  )
He just wants us to move forward. Says he loves me and he's sorry he lost sight of the woman he married. He says “if he had known this would hurt me as much as it did, he never would have done it”. That makes me so mad. I want him to not have done it because it was wrong! The thing is his actions don't match his words. He also said this same thing the day after I caught him. How can someone go from that unhappy to "id have a re-commitment ceremony tomorrow if you were willing". I am just not buying it. 

He won't do any of the heavy lifting. If I look at it, he's not really doing anything, good or bad. He just goes to work everyday (where this woman (girl) works) and pretends like it never happened. 

I actually have a question regarding transparency? 

Because they still work together in such a tiny office (he's her boss) transparency was very important to me. He acknowledged this was important but has been passive about it since the beginning. He won't share anything but he won't hide anything if I ask. I have had to become super sleuth which is exhausting. If I get upset about it he is very defensive, he reminds me I have all of his passwords and can look anytime. I explain (over and over and over) that I don't want to have to look bc then it's on my mind 24/7 and I end up frustrated and irritable and short with my poor kids. 

He is dying for me to get out of "park" so we can move forward. He genuinely does feel bad (i think) but he went from emotionally beating the crap out of me after this to "im sorry can we just focus on the future?" yet I can't think anything he has done to help start rebuilding trust except not change his passwords ( i already knew them-we had no secrets, I thought) and stop talking with her about their relationship. They sit right next to other and work side by side on projects everyday. To me, it sounds essentially a couple that had to unwillingly break up (not bc they fell out of love). At first bc he wanted to slow things down (wasn't willing to leave his family) and to just continue being the best friends that they were and then suddenly that was pulled out from under them when I found out and said there was no way they could be friends. They had clearly proven that they weren't capable of just being friends (she's single and 15 years younger). 

Thing is she just put her notice in and is finally leaving 9/30. I should be relieved but the problem over the last months hasn't been her so much, but about at how passive yet defensive and confused my H has been about transparency. 

Maybe I have been asking something just not realistic. Specifically, I have wanted him to tell me about his day at work, including any uncomfortable interactions with her. Or tell me when they are going to co-facilitate a meeting or have their weekly one-on-one meetings. Feels petty I even want him to tell me when he doesn’t see her at all (which only would be if she weren’t in the office) because it would spare me a day of ruminating. 

More than wanting the information I have wanted the respect. To always "forget" to tell me or not understand what I need just doesn't feel right. He had always said there is nothing to tell, which I couldn't buy. Pheromones alone don't work that way.

Funny thing is I got so frustrated about 3 months ago and he said he would "reflect" on the past 7 months and tell me from a hindsight perspective what had been happening that maybe he didn't realize at the time. Among other things, he admitted there "was something in the air" for the first few months (after I “made” them go radio silent). That is the exact thing I was begging to know in the moment. I didn't care so much if there were lingering feelings, I cared that he couldn't be respectful or fearless enough to tell me.

Have I been asking too much? Is this unrealistic? I honestly have no idea.


Sorry - I think I might be threadjacking. Tell me if I am and I will start a new thread


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