# Don't know how to deal with this . . .



## poolguy (Jan 20, 2012)

Reposting as suggested from another thread. Thanks for the help!


'll try to keep this brief for the forum. 
Through a roundabout way, I discovered last Sept my wife was having an emotional online affair, including sexting and pictures. It had moved into a serious as it can be online relationship, not just sexting. I confronted her, and I learned she had felt emotionally abandoned due to some issues I was dealing with. We agreed we could work it out. 
Over the next few months, there were many bumps. I had trouble trusting and wanted to spy on her, as it were, and she tried to sneak around a few times to talk with the "other guy." I never found evidence of anything further sexual, but she lied about speaking to him.
After lots of back and forth, we agreed that should could still talk to him on an occassional basis as friends, because they had been friends before and she wanted to repair their friendly relationship. She agreed to be honest and fair to me, informing me when they spoke so there was no sneaking around.
This brings us to present more or less. Oddly enough, I had some suspicions about another online male friend she had. Nothing serious, I guess, but overly intimate discussion (non-sexual). It would have been mostly fine before, but after her infidelity before, it seemed inappropriate to me.
I was afraid to confront her because one of our biggest arguments has been about her feeling I don't trust her and spy on her. I'm ashamed to say, my solution was not to confront but to orchestrate a way to spy on her online activities. After a week, I found that she was talking to the original guy, and it was once again of a very sexual nature. She also suggested that a trip she had been planning to his state with a friend ( that I knew about) was supposed to be a chance to meet him. That trip had since been canceled, but she suggested to him she might find some alternative.
I have ZERO idea what to do. If I tell her about my spying, I'm afraid it will blow up. But I can't let this go on, and I feel somewhat justified for spying because, well, I was right!


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

poolguy said:


> Reposting as suggested from another thread. Thanks for the help!
> 
> 
> 'll try to keep this brief for the forum.
> ...





poolguy said:


> *After lots of back and forth, we agreed that should could still talk to him on an occassional basis as friends*, because they had been friends before and she wanted to repair their friendly relationship.
> !


Mistake! Why did you allow her to talk / chat with him? First demand no contact, becuase you already started suspecting.



poolguy said:


> She agreed to be honest and fair to me, informing me when they spoke so there was no sneaking around.
> This brings us to present more or less. Oddly enough, I had some suspicions about another online male friend she had. Nothing serious, I guess, but overly intimate discussion (non-sexual). It would have been mostly fine before, but after her infidelity before, it seemed inappropriate to me.
> I was afraid to confront her because one of our biggest arguments has been about her feeling I don't trust her and spy on her. I'm ashamed to say, my solution was not to confront but to orchestrate a way to spy on her online activities. After a week, I found that she was talking to the original guy, and it was once again of a very sexual nature. She also suggested that a trip she had been planning to his state with a friend ( that I knew about) was supposed to be a chance to meet him. That trip had since been canceled, but she suggested to him she might find some alternative.
> I have ZERO idea what to do. If I tell her about my spying, I'm afraid it will blow up. But I can't let this go on, and I feel somewhat justified for spying because, well, I was right!


Dont tell her that you did spy on her. Just say you are not comfortable and would like to re-consider the allowing of online friendship with him or anyone else. Get her commit to this and watch.


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## poolguy (Jan 20, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> Mistake! Why did you allow her to talk / chat with him? First demand no contact, becuase you already started suspecting.
> 
> 
> 
> Dont tell her that you did spy on her. Just say you are not comfortable and would like to re-consider the allowing of online friendship with him or anyone else. Get her commit to this and watch.


Yeah, I felt sort of in between a rock and a hard place letting them talk. It seemed like a way to show that I could trust her again and we could get through it. Hasn't worked out on that count though, I know.
I'm not saying your wrong, but here's my pushback. I know that if I tell her I'm not comfortable, the argument will be that how can we ever get through this if I can't trust her, or if I can't move past what she did or forgive her. Which of course is silly, since she is the one in the wrong still.
I dunno, maybe I'm crazy. I should know there is NO way this will not be painful to deal with. I guess I just want to go about it in a way that will lead to more productive direction, not more fear/hiding/lying.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

First off. You have every right to spy on her as you have every right to know what is going on in your life.

Was she communicating via facebook? email? You could always tell her that she left her account logged on and you saw the emails.. This is actually how I found out what my husband was up to. He forgot to log off and close the chat and email windows.

Before you do anything get copies of the emails that you found that prove the affair.

There are certain things that are usually suggested when infidelity occurs so that the couple can repair their marriage. You have every right to set your own boundaries of what you will accept. If your wife wants to stay with you she will have to live by these boundaries.

1) She has to have 100% no contact with the other man/men.

2) She has to send no contact letters/emails to the man/men (there is an example around here somewhere). She does this with you there with her.. it's a joint effort.

3) She agrees to complete transparency from here on out in your marriage (you do the same). She gives you the passwords to all of you computer, emails, facebook, etc. She agrees to let you put a keystroke tracker on all computers she uses at home so you can monitor everything she does on the computer. She also has to allow you to use those passwords before she deletes everything.

4) She has to provide you with all of the contact info she has on the OM.. email addresses, phone numbers, street address. She has to agree that you will do with them as you choose.

She is the one who has to work her butt off to get back in your good graces. She has to prove to you that she can be trusted. Because right now she cannot be.

You made a mistake letting her continue contact with the OM (other man) after you found out about their online affair.

Is the OM married? Call his wife and send her all of the evidence you have. He'll most likely dump your wife and try to fix his own marriage. Plus his wife has the right to know what her husband is up to.

If she will not agree to all of the above, she is not really ready to rebuild your marriage. It would be time to file for divorce.

I know it all sounds harsh.. but you cannot trust her anymore. You gave her a chance.. that's more than she deserved. And she took advantage of you and further hurt you.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

poolguy said:


> Yeah, I felt sort of in between a rock and a hard place letting them talk. It seemed like a way to show that I could trust her again and we could get through it. Hasn't worked out on that count though, I know.
> I'm not saying your wrong, but here's my pushback. I know that if I tell her I'm not comfortable, the argument will be that how can we ever get through this if I can't trust her, or if I can't move past what she did or forgive her. Which of course is silly, since she is the one in the wrong still.
> I dunno, maybe I'm crazy. I should know there is NO way this will not be painful to deal with. *I guess I just want to go about it in a way that will lead to more productive direction, not more fear/hiding/lying*.


You are inclined to do R. Then, you need to follow what Elegirl said.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When I found out about my husband's on line affairs I contacted the women. (It's very common for a person who does these things online to have it going on with more than one person. It's just so easy.)

I also got into everything of his that I could and gathered info as proof. I then sent all of the messages, emails, chats, etc etc to the women so that they knew that he was playing a game with them. 

He was pretty angry at first, said he could not trust me. My response was that no, he could always trust me. He could trust that if he cheated with me I would find out through any means I could and that I would do exactly what I was doing... shattering his secret little life. I said that he could always trust that I would do everything to protect myself.

It was the last time he said he could not trust me.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

O.K. Here it goes....

WARNING!!! DO NOT LET THE SHE-PIG KNOW YOU ARE DOING THIS!!!

1) Print out or save all the emails between her and the other man onto a data stick. Don't forget to save all the outgoing and deleted messages also. These will come in handy later on.

2) Tonight or tomorrow, call and cancell all your credit cards. If the bank is open, go and pull out half of all your savings and put them in an account under your name only. Make sure on Monday you switch your direct deposit to that account, so the wife has no access to your money.

3) If you are paying for her cell phone, call the provider tomorrow and have it shut off. You'll have to pay the remainder of the contract, but at least you won't be providing her with a means to contact the OM (other man). Let her pay for her own phone if she wants to contact the dirtbag. 

4) If the account is in your name, call your cable provider and shut off the internet service to your home. Again, no reason to 
help her with her online affair. You can get by with your work computer or I-phone if you need to e-mail. 

5) Monday morning take off work and go see a lawyer. S/he he should be able to give you a quick overview of your rights as an aggrieved spouse. Then, if you can, have the lawyer either draft up a separation agreement. If you cannot afford a lawyer, go to the nearest county courthouse and have the clerk give you the divorce forms and show you how to fill them out. You can file for divorce yourself, and pay a fee to have your wife served.

Remember, a divorce can be called off. Just because you file does not mean you will necessarily go through with it. But getting served papers may wake your wife up to the dire reality of the situation and she will know you mean business. 

You'll be surprised at how fast you can get all this accomplished. The idea of doing all this is to take control of the sitation away from your wife. She is in the affair fog and is not thinking about you or your feelings. 

6) Once you have gotten all these ducks in a row, calmly confront your wife and tell her you know what is going on, that you have proof she is cheating and that you have made arrangements with a lawyer to start divorce proceedings. Be emotionless when you do this. Think Mr. Spock. Don't show weakness of any kind. If she gets in your face just walk away until she cools down. Stay calm and focused, do not lose your temper. Let her scream, and cry and beg. Be a rock. 

Do not let her kick you out of the home. She has no right since you probably live in a community property state. Tell her you are not leaving, but that if she plans on continuing her affair with the OM she can leave anytime she wishes to and you will not stop her. 

Lastly,

Do not let your wife beat you down and make you feel ashamed of snooping. Marriage is about openness and honesty, two things she seems to know nothing about. Remember, you have not been controlling, you have been a man trying to save his marriage!

Do the *180 Method! Someone will be along to give you the link (I wish I had the brain cells to remember to keep it handy). It'll help you to get hold of your emotions and fortify yourself for the fight ahead.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Remember that you may have been half responsible for the state of your marriage, but she is 100% responsible for the affair. Do not let her forget it.*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

spudster said:


> Do the *180 Method*! Someone will be along to give you the link (I wish I had the brain cells to remember to keep it handy). It'll help you to get hold of your emotions and fortify yourself for the fight ahead.


Link to the 180 is in my signature block below.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Poolguy, do you have children with your wife?


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## poolguy (Jan 20, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Poolguy, do you have children with your wife?


I can't quote every reply, so here goes.

Yes we have two kids, and are/were planning on a third.

Here's what's crazy. Since the first infidelity, our marriage has been so much more amazing than in the past three years. I'e had my things I was guilty of too (no I am not writing her off, don't worry) Just makes this all seem that much more unbelieveable. I am with confronting on every level. The one thing I will give hard pushback on , and this is knowing my wife, is the surprise divorce filing. I don't see how coming out hardcore on the offense will help us fix things. I get the point: scare her, show her I mean business. I just don't see it being in any way productive. I'm open to being proven wrong, and I reaallly appreciate all the open advise.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed, do you think your wife would be as accepting as you have been? You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. It shows clearly she has no problem lying to you which means she has no respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.


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## poolguy (Jan 20, 2012)

bryanp said:


> If the roles were reversed, do you think your wife would be as accepting as you have been? You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. It shows clearly she has no problem lying to you which means she has no respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.


I'll be honest I have thought the same thing. I think anyone would be on my side as far as NO continued contact. I also agree she would not want/allow the same thing. 

In response to other questions. Other guy is not married or even dating as far as I know. However he is...wait for it...a youth pastor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

You seem scared to upset her. You are certainly not enforcing your position. Why should she care if you dont show any backbone to enforce your position?

She's getting away with it now because you let her.

So what if you dont trust her? Why should you since she has shown she can be trusted? Why cant you admit to her you dont trust her?

Bottom line is that you cant control her. You can only determine for yourself what you stand for.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Ask yourself if you're sticking around because you want to, or are you sticking around out of fear?

If it's about fear, you need to suck it up and just make the move.


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## poolguy (Jan 20, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Ask yourself if you're sticking around because you want to, or are you sticking around out of fear?
> 
> If it's about fear, you need to suck it up and just make the move.


I'm sticking around bc I want to. I do still love her, f'd up as things are. I also accept I had a hand in pushing her away at first but I know that is not an excuse for her. I just gives me motivation to not just write her off as a Chester or "she-pig". 

I totally agree I need backbone. I guess that's part of what I'm looki g fr here. The encouragement to suck it up and confront her. I'm not do much afraid to upset her. I just know when this all started we were both at fault. For tr promises we made to each other and our family I owe it to us to try to make it work, not to write her off. But I do know I've got to confront her sooner rather than later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bugz Bunny (Nov 28, 2011)

poolguy said:


> I just know when this all started we were both at fault.
> 
> *The marriage problems are 50/50 but the affair is only her fault and not yours...The both of you had the same problems but you didnt cheat on her,she cheated on you...*
> 
> ...


*You've got a lot of good advice on this forum,please use it.Don't be afraid and start respecting yourself and your children...

Good Luck
*


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

If you dont have a respect for yourself ten who will? For a cheating there should be dare consequences. Show her that, its not for divorcing, its to take her out of Affair fog.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

She has destroyed trust, the foundation of marriage. Now she has to EARN it back. No true remorse here. Your attempt at R will fail if you continue upon your path. R is a precious gift given by the BS (you) only when the WS has done the heavy lifting to deserve it. If you want R, then the affair ends first. Otherwise you are rug sweeping and only end up in False R.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aeg512 (Mar 22, 2011)

One way you could handle this is just to sit her down at the dinner table and ask if there is anyone else? If you both share the same PC you could tell her she left her email open (happens a lot) and ask if there is anything she needs to tell you. Why was the planned trip cancelled, did you ask her to do it, or did she after being called out on the flirting?


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> One way you could handle this is just to sit her down at the dinner table and ask if there is anyone else? If you both share the same PC you could tell her she left her email open (happens a lot) and ask if there is anything she needs to tell you. Why was the planned trip cancelled, did you ask her to do it, or did she after being called out on the flirting?


Or he could take the rout of the samurai: direct and offensive...

Tell her "Hell yes I snooped. And I plan on doing alot more snooping from this point onwards... or, if you really do love and respect me, you will be open and honest and give me full disclosure. If you do not have that kind of respect for me, and if you are not willing to fight for our marriage as I am doing now, then we need to divorce and you need to go your way. I will not be your second choice and I will not be disrespected!"

Feel free to ad lib.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

poolguy said:


> I'm not saying your wrong, but here's my pushback. I know that if I tell her I'm not comfortable, the argument will be that how can we ever get through this if I can't trust her, or if I can't move past what she did or forgive her. .


The big problem is that you aren't there yet. You are talking about how you would act when the contact and affair are fully over and after she has earned back your trust.

You aren't there yet. You are still at the point where she has gotten you to cave in and let her resume her secret private contact with these guys. She never earned that back, she never earned your trust.

In fact when you first gave her back trust , she went right back to it.


So stop acting like you are afraid of being seen as not trusting her. The honest truth is you don't. So be honest with her.n that's what your asking her to be with you right?

There is also a firm rule every betrayed spouse should follow: there can never be contact with a former affair partner. That is one of the permanent consequences of crossing the line with someone. 

This isnt where your wife in advertantky told a small family secret or spent too much money. This is a case of a MARRIED mom engaging in sexual exchanges with someone other than her spouse.

She cheated.

So yeah, she looses the friendship, she shoud have thought of that.

Also remind her, she could also loose her marriage over cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

poolguy said:


> I'll be honest I have thought the same thing. I think anyone would be on my side as far as NO continued contact. I also agree she would not want/allow the same thing.
> 
> In response to other questions. Other guy is not married or even dating as far as I know. However he is...wait for it...a youth pastor.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutely contact his church. He is a predator on your marriage. He is untrustworthy and should not be around other people's children.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

poolguy said:


> I can't quote every reply, so here goes.
> 
> Yes we have two kids, and are/were planning on a third.
> 
> Here's what's crazy. Since the first infidelity, our marriage has been so much more amazing than in the past three years. I'e had my things I was guilty of too (no I am not writing her off, don't worry) Just makes this all seem that much more unbelieveable. I am with confronting on every level. The one thing I will give hard pushback on , and this is knowing my wife, is the surprise divorce filing. I don't see how coming out hardcore on the offense will help us fix things. I get the point: scare her, show her I mean business. I just don't see it being in any way productive. I'm open to being proven wrong, and I reaallly appreciate all the open advise.



If your marriage was as amazing for your wife as it has been for you she would NOT be making plans to go visit the other mans bed. 

You are in the betrayed spouse fog as much as she is in the cheating wife fog. The ONLY reason the OM isn't regularly pounding your wife is because he is in another state. How do you know he hasn't been traveling to meet her?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell her you don't trust her because she is still cheating and lying and you know it. It will take years for you to trust her again.

The biggest problem is how you folded the first time. She doesn't respect you because you did'nt/haven't manned up. Make no mistake, in her mind, sooner or later you are going to be history.

Only very strong action will snap her out of . Out the other man immediately to his church. Out OM2 to whoever. 

If you can't force your self to file for D at least download a divorce packet for your state ( you may have to pick one up at the county courthouse) and start filling it out. Make sure she knows she is caught and now divorce is on the table. If you bluff she will see right through you.

She has to know you are serious about protecting your family form outside predators. If this doesn't wake her up you will have to accept your marriage is over.

You will find help about regaining you manhood here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Good luck, if you have the courage you have real good chance of saving this situation, if you don't , well, she already knows where she can run to.

Never reveal your sources.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

aug said:


> You seem scared to upset her. You are certainly not enforcing your position. Why should she care if you dont show any backbone to enforce your position?
> 
> She's getting away with it now because you let her.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

The genie is already out of the bottle!She planned and probably still planning on PA.Hard work is necessary from both of you if you want a chance to save your marriage.You'll never save it if you don't confront her.You have every right not to trust her and snooping isn't really the issue is it.She cheated period,no matter how it was found out.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

By the way,the other thread you started is the same.Maybe you should delete it for better continuity in replies.


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## poolguy (Jan 20, 2012)

Thank you all so much for all of the encouragement. I really do feel now that I have to confront her, I just have to decide how and when to do it . . . I will post how it goes when it's done. I guess I've had this weird hope that if I watch out, I will discover this is the one time she has slipped up since we first got back on course, and it hasn't been a pattern of deception for months. Either way, no contact with the OM is the way to go, I know. Just somehow it seems better if she made a mistake because she had not set up the right guard rails. But then I remember he already knew about her plans to visit his state.

( to answer a previous question about if he has already been here, I can say that is definitely not the case for what it's worth)

Question/Opinion: is there any way we can get through this without outside help or counseling. From messages I've read where she has talked to her friends (ones she has no reason to lie to) she has said she thinks our marriage is doing great, but she is still afraid to trust that it will last. She says she is cared I will go back to emotionally disconnecting. Our issues are so deep-rooted a this point it seems. Obviously she has to make a choice here. But is it going to really be possible to dig through ourselves? Anyone here who has tried it one or both ways and is on the other side of it??


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Marriage counseling only works when both partners are willing to work to save the marriage. Nothing she has done to this point shows she has such a desire.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sometimes marriage counseling can do more harm than good. There are so many good self help books out there. You might want to start with them. 

I have some good ones in my signature block below under building a passionate marriage. "Surving an Affair" is another good one as it gives the thing that need to happen... how to build an affair proof marriage. The other books listed below address these issues as well.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Sometimes marriage counseling can do more harm than good. There are so many good self help books out there. You might want to start with them.
> 
> I have some good ones in my signature block below under building a passionate marriage. "Surving an Affair" is another good one as it gives the thing that need to happen... how to build an affair proof marriage. The other books listed below address these issues as well.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I have some good ones in my signature block below under building a passionate marriage. "Surving an Affair" is another good one as it gives the thing that need to happen... how to build an affair proof marriage. The other books listed below address these issues as well.


Having been a betrayed husband, I would recommend to other BS (LS) to read instead Dr James C Hobson's book 'Love Must Be Tough'. It delivers the goods by giving the BS (LS) the steps to maintain his dignity by essentially showing his cheating wife that he is not going to be waiting for her to come back. The betrayed husband should not tolerate any abuse from his cheating wife including any thoughts in her mind that he is a doormat and her consolation prize if her relationship with the OM implodes.

Dr Harley's 'Surviving An Affair' Jon and Sue story did nothing but show how much abuse Jon had to tolerate from his WW Sue - whom he found naked, having sex with the OM in their matrimonial bed - and how even after she got dumped by the OM for another woman when they started living together and facing the cruel facts of life, she still blamed Jon for her affair. Supposedly, Jon eventually got over it but no thanks to that poor excuse of woman's behavior, Sue. If it wasn't for Jon's daughters, he would have bolted from the marriage. It would be interesting to see if a follow up on Jon and Sue shows if the two are still together.

Furthermore I find it also interesting that the same man who tells BS (LS) to suck it up, Dr Willard Harley, has said publicly on his website that he would divorce his wife if she ever had an affair. Go figure :scratchhead:


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