# Psychological Manipulation by OM



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Interesting discussion with the W this morning. Yesterday she was approached by a man in the neighborhood outside "his" house to help with home repairs. He said all the right things: needed help, just moved in to a house, is a veteran, works construction, etc. Turns out he is squatting in an abandoned house that is condemned and is a registered sex offender. She took a tour of the house to look at areas she could help him fix. Needless to say, something really bad could have happened. After asking about him to the neighborhood association, found out he is a scam artist who manipulates unsuspecting people. My W was just trying to help him get a hot water heater and some other basic necessities. This made me wonder about other times she was manipulated.

The discussion turned to a certain OM during the "dark ages" 10+ yrs ago when we were virtually divorced. He totally didn't seem like her "type", and if she could have a relationship with anybody post-marriage, why him? W indicated that he was a master manipulator, who works in sales and used deceptive, underhanded, deceptive, and abusive tactics to exploit people. She also said he determined her vulnerabilities and played on those to his advantage, like the abandonment she was feeling after I left.

She indicated in the beginning he was super nice and helpful, volunteering to help fix a car, clean the basement after it flooded, etc. He also filled her head with praise, charm, and flattery. I believe he did this to gain both her trust and access to her life and home. They worked at the same place also. Eventually the relationship turned physical, and lasted a few years. He was very controlling, and kept other men and her female friends away from her.

At later times he cried, got mad, threatened to kill her, threatened to kill himself, wanted them to run away together, and drugged her once. He meets all of the description for "Psychological Manipulation" based on my research, and his wife confirmed many of his character traits when we spoke a few months ago. 

My W does not use this experience with a manipulator as an excuse, but she did say it was difficult to eventually pull away from him to reevaluate her marriage situation to determine if R was possible. I'm glad she did!

A couple of weeks ago her best friend was visiting us, and the subject of the OM came up. She and my W both say this guy is crazy and dangerous, and that they are both afraid of him. I hope we never meet.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

Dude, is your wife a contractor?

Unless she is she has no reason to be looking in an abandoned house with a questionable male to evaluate home repairs and water heaters. You actually believe this crap?

Your wife has no boundaries and knows you will buy any stupid story she spins.

The only one being manipulated here is you.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Do you know that the most risky undertaking of realtors is showing properties? You can get killed in this situation. I manage our rental properties and my husband is with me at all times while showing properties for rent. Does your wife have any sense of self-preservation? This guy must be good-looking and she is looking for a possible hook-up.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Rubicon said:


> Dude, is your wife a contractor?
> 
> Unless she is she has no reason to be looking in an abandoned house with a questionable male to evaluate home repairs and water heaters. You actually believe this crap?
> 
> ...


Yes, she does home repairs on historical homes. She also buys and flips houses so it is not unusual for her. But she now realizes the danger of it, and to be more careful.

As to your second point (which I don't understand at all) - do all the women in your life bang any man around as soon as you are not looking, like a dog? Do you keep them on a leash? Do all women on your life constantly lie to you about everything?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Roselyn said:


> Do you know that the most risky undertaking of realtors is showing properties? You can get killed in this situation. I manage our rental properties and my husband is with me at all times while showing properties for rent. Does your wife have any sense of self-preservation? This guy must be good-looking and she is looking for a possible hook-up.


She was interested in the house, not him. He looks like an old homeless man who needs a shower.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

There was a worker present from the utility company but granted still not a safe situation.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

YOur wife was not manipulated this time or the other time with OM. 

Om did not "keep" her from family and friends. 

She decided to do it,but you want to belive her words.

You are opening new posts every month and you still trust your wife words.

Sorry but like I said in other threads your marriage is not a marriage.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

Well I didn't see that coming lol, so she is a contractor huh? Guess that's why I asked....



> As to your second point (which I don't understand at all) - do all the women in your life bang any man around as soon as you are not looking, like a dog? Do you keep them on a leash? Do all women on your life constantly lie to you about everything?


Nope, the women in my life are all rational normal human beings. I have no need for a leash except for my dog and it's really only coincidence that she happens to be female. I don't feel I am being lied to or misled by any of them. (except maybe the dog) I'm not a control freak at all. I don't understand those who choose to become probation officers over their partners.

I also don't let others disrespect me. You see, I keep toxic people at arms length if not cut them out of my life altogether. Anyone anywhere has the right to be as big an idiot as they like and I have to right to completely ignore them.

When you describe sitting there while your WW and her toxic friend sit and reminisce about how masculine and dangerous the man she cheated on you with is and your response is that you hope you never run into him you bring the concept of beta to a whole new level.

Now, the fact that your ok with cozying right up and lapping up her humiliating comments tells me you are fairly comfortable in the cuckold lifestyle. To each his own. If you are ok with it and your wife truly does have a fetish for wimpy men then perhaps it will all work out. 

But I would think you don't have a hope in he11 of keeping this woman from stepping out on you again. If the best you got is to wring your hands with worry about how to interpret everything you find all so fascinating while she straps on the tool belt and gets to work with the big boys...... Well, good luck with that.

I cannot imagine a circumstance where I would find myself in your position and enjoy that.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> Interesting discussion with the W this morning. Yesterday she was approached by a man in the neighborhood outside "his" house to help with home repairs. He said all the right things: needed help, just moved in to a house, is a veteran, works construction, etc. Turns out he is squatting in an abandoned house that is condemned and is a registered sex offender. She took a tour of the house to look at areas she could help him fix. Needless to say, something really bad could have happened. After asking about him to the neighborhood association, found out he is a scam artist who manipulates unsuspecting people. My W was just trying to help him get a hot water heater and some other basic necessities. This made me wonder about other times she was manipulated.
> 
> The discussion turned to a certain OM during the "dark ages" 10+ yrs ago when we were virtually divorced. He totally didn't seem like her "type", and if she could have a relationship with anybody post-marriage, why him? W indicated that he was a master manipulator, who works in sales and used deceptive, underhanded, deceptive, and abusive tactics to exploit people. She also said he determined her vulnerabilities and played on those to his advantage, like the abandonment she was feeling after I left.
> 
> ...


Exactly how did the subject of the OM come up?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

MarriedDude said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting discussion with the W this morning. Yesterday she was approached by a man in the neighborhood outside "his" house to help with home repairs. He said all the right things: needed help, just moved in to a house, is a veteran, works construction, etc. Turns out he is squatting in an abandoned house that is condemned and is a registered sex offender. She took a tour of the house to look at areas she could help him fix. Needless to say, something really bad could have happened. After asking about him to the neighborhood association, found out he is a scam artist who manipulates unsuspecting people. My W was just trying to help him get a hot water heater and some other basic necessities. This made me wonder about other times she was manipulated.
> ...


Discussion on manipulation by others. The neighborhood guy was trying to hustle her to provide him a hot water heater or do work for free at the house.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

Maj, Let's assume for a moment that this encounter with the homeless homeowner is exactly as you describe, an attempt to scam your wife.

Do you in any way see that your wife taking this stranger that she informs you about, getting you to agree he is a master manipulator and then while that agreement is fresh, shifting all these qualities over to the OM, as an attempt to minimise her responsibility in the affair? Do you know what a straw man argument is?

Does it occur to you at all that having her and her friend try to convince you that not only is he a master manipulator, but obviously very intimidating, and your poor innocent wife must have been scarred out of her wits and in way over her head.... Certainly this man was in total control, your wife.... powerless.... Is really just gas lighting, her rewriting history to make you believe there are these master manipulators running around scamming everyone out of their pants and she, like you is just a victim in all of this?

Don't be fooled. There is no remorse there. She is working on you until she gets you believing exactly what she wants you to believe.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Rubicon said:


> Well I didn't see that coming lol, so she is a contractor huh? Guess that's why I asked....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are so many things I want to say to you Rubicon. But I can summarize by saying that if you feel you can trust what all the ladies in your life tell you, then why can't you appreciate that in others? What if you got a call from a guy who said he cheated with your lady yrs ago? Would you say "that's impossible or it couldn't happen"? Everybody has lied about something, whether taxes, resume, or previous relationships. The better question is how do you deal with it?
There was a very good reason why my W withheld the full truth about her relationship with this OM so many years ago. It had more to do with protecting me and her than him. And that decision probably saved lives. I was very good at my job in the military so to call me a wimp is unfounded.

I am not her "probation officer" and I trust her with my life. Besides, why would she tell me about going into the house if her "secret plan" was to go around and cheat with guys in the neighborhood?

Back to the original topic, I previously worked in a prison and the cells were full of guys who manipulated people to get what they wanted. Cars, jewelry, guns, sex, drugs, etc without a job or credit. For some it was a way to eat and not be homeless when they came from an austere background with no education, no family, no advantages, etc. I knew of many boosters who manipulated retail store managers, clerks, and cashiers in order to steal thousand of dollars of inventory each week.

I believe this OM was a master manipulator who targeted my W when we were separated. She has previously said, and I have posted : THIS IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR WHAT I DID, ONLY A CONDITION THAT WAS PRESENT AND PREVENTED ME FROM ENDING IT SOONER!

The fact that multiple people (including his W) have confirmed that this OM has a dangerous MH condition is serious, and I needed to know this because we moved back to the same city as him recently. The ladies weren't reminiscing about what a sexy, dangerous thug he was, they were warning me to avoid him because they think he's crazy in a dangerous way. What would you do about this Rubicon? I know, D her and move on right? She can't be trusted ever again right?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

:wtf:

Your wife made me shake my head.

Please share this link with her
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Suzy_Lamplugh

They have yet to find her body or the person who killed her.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Rubicon said:


> Maj, Let's assume for a moment that this encounter with the homeless homeowner is exactly as you describe, an attempt to scam your wife.
> 
> Do you in any way see that your wife taking this stranger that she informs you about, getting you to agree he is a master manipulator and then while that agreement is fresh, shifting all these qualities over to the OM, as an attempt to minimise her responsibility in the affair? Do you know what a straw man argument is?
> 
> ...


My W didn't bring up the OM during the discussion on attempted hustling/manipulation by the neighborhood guy, I did. She is reluctant to talk about him, as it brings up bad memories. Same thing when her Gf was visiting, I brought it up. No one is "working on me" to rewrite history. If anything, upon analysis, it shows that she is now better able to identify potential manipulators/hustlers compared to 12 yrs ago.

The X factor is me. By being her longtime best friend, confidant, and counselor, if unsure now she can always ask me for advice about situations and I can help. Unfortunately, when she first interacted with the OM, I was not in the picture, otherwise she would have been advised to avoid him and received help to enforce a no-contact rule if he didn't get the message or was stubborn. We were virtually divorced then and she could have moved on with anybody, and she admits that a single, non-manipulating guy would have been a better choice.

I value the opinions of all TAM posters, but I have to disagree with you Rubicon on this one.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

> What would you do about this Rubicon? I know, D her and move on right? She can't be trusted ever again right?


Actually, no. I can't imagine I'd have married her in the first place but that's just me. 

Here's what you don't understand. When you separate. That IS the second chance. It's not a time to go find yourself like some college bimbo on a spring break, trying on a few other partners for size. It's when you refocus your self on the marriage. The second you heard she was seeing someone else you should have filed and been done with her. This isn't high school.

What would I have done? I would have laid it out cold and bare. Separation means divorce. You leave the home to live somewhere else you gave up on the marriage, game over. This would be decided by her foot over the threshold and I would make that unmistakeably clear in a calm and confident manner. There is no way I would spend one single night wondering if she were coming back or not. People only have the control over you that you give them. If someone pulled that crap with me I would instantly remove that power from them. 

So for me anyway, it never would have gotten to the point that you let it get to for you. Be very clear with yourself, when your marriage was at it's most critical point, while you were hurting the most, Your wife tossed in on the hat rack for however long she decided to go out screwing around and during that time she deliberately choose to get involved with this unstable thug. And don't pretend she didn't know this about him and liked it at the time. She wanted to go play biker chick or whatever bad boy fetish she was living at the time and left you at home to twist.

You are being very stupid to think for a moment your wife couldn't have stood up at any time and walked away from this loser. She could have returned to the marriage at any time and did so only when it suited her. Any claims of protecting you and herself is just outright lies. She most likely thrives on the drama she became the center of. 

He manipulated her??? Rubbish. She's manipulating you.

Could I have been lied to by the people in my life and not known. Sure. It could happen all the time for all I know. The whole thing about trust is you place faith in people. If you could always be 100% sure of everything what would trust even mean and why would you need to rely on it? 

The point is not that nobody ever lies to me, the point is when I know they do I take actions to protect myself from their lying.

You don't. Instead you actively work with them to restore things to a state in which they can do the same thing to you all over again.


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## Rubicon (Jan 13, 2014)

> I value the opinions of all TAM posters, but I have to disagree with you Rubicon on this one.



OK, understood. Good luck, I hope things get better for you.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation

It is real, and it happens.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Just go out and scream it:


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

intheory said:


> You are a woman passing an empty, slightly run down home; and a man purporting to be it's owner approaches you (from the front porch???), and starts to engage you in conversation.
> 
> Other than mumbling a quick 'Hello' (optional), you speed up your step and move away from the property as quickly as possible; while keeping a look out over your shoulder to see if he is following you.
> 
> The fact that your wife accompanied him into the house is terrifying. This is right up there with blow-drying your hair in the bathtub.


Are you afraid to talk with anyone? Or are you too good to listen when someone asks for help? Your life must be miserable.

My W serves on the outreach committee for the local government for our neighborhood. Her job is to identify new residents and provide information on community relations, services, and survey resident's needs for the Mayor. She was driving thru the area at the time the resident flagged her down.

There are sure a lot of "low information" posters on TAM lately.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Are you afraid to talk with anyone? Your life must be miserable.


That was sort of uncalled for as Intheory raised a very serious point.

The Susie Lamplugh Trust would agree with what Intheory said:
Safety for Estate Agents | Suzy Lamplugh Trust


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## header (Nov 14, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Are you afraid to talk with anyone? Or are you too good to listen when someone asks for help? Your life must be miserable.


Going into an abandoned house with a shady looking guy is just completely lacking in common sense. It's a lot different then just striking up a conversation with a stranger or lending a helping hand to someone in need.



MAJDEATH said:


> As to your second point (which I don't understand at all) - do all the women in your life bang any man around as soon as you are not looking, like a dog? Do you keep them on a leash? Do all women on your life constantly lie to you about everything?


It appears from reading your story, that your wife did exactly those things.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

header said:


> Going into an abandoned house with a shady looking guy is just completely lacking in common sense. It's a lot different then just striking up a conversation with a stranger or lending a helping hand to someone in need.
> 
> 
> 
> *It appears from reading your story, that your wife did exactly those things*.


Wrong.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Be smart said:


> YOur wife was not manipulated this time or the other time with OM.
> 
> *Om did not "keep" her from family and friends. *
> 
> ...


Actually, yes he did, at certain times (as confirmed by others involved). She eventually broke free and has since expressed regret for choosing to get involved with this OM in the first place. She went thru an early phase of their relationship where she cared about him and told him she loved him. It was later that the control freak in him came out and caused havoc. She blames herself and rightly so!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I could not stay long in a relationship with a partner who was no match emotionally or otherwise with other adults with whom we come into contact.

My Ex Husband (get that? EX!!!) claimed to forget and to be unable to be "mean" to others and boo-hoo.........

funny he couldn't show that courtesy to me.........

I used to try to be understanding of other people's shortcomings but I finally came to a conclusion...... that is, I have my own life to lead. 

If my husband ever felt the need to make midnight errands for his female friends or any kind of friends for that matter, if he often "forgets" things at critical moments, well, we just would not be able to last as husband and wife.

Maj, do you prefer an easy or a drama filled life? 

To pursue an easy life, that would mean that you surround yourself with people who take responsibility for their actions. 

Not claim (as below)








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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

She was a fWW, but not anymore. Mostly because she has remorse and guilt, and because she knows I wouldn't stand for it.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rubicon said:


> Dude, is your wife a contractor?
> 
> Unless she is she has no reason to be looking in an abandoned house with a questionable male to evaluate home repairs and water heaters. You actually believe this crap?
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same EXACT thing... More like, " Psychological Manipulation by WW".

This OP posts thread after thread of psycho analysis for the cheating scum he is married to in a sad attempt to find the reason for her actions.

I get it. He is in pain and wants answers but only answers that make "sense" to him. Therein lies the problem.

The cold truth is she is a selfish POS. The end. He just won't accept that. So around and around we go.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

He currently has close to 20 threads. Each thread on a topic individual TAM members tend to respond to. I think something happened to him, but he is on a pity trip and keeps coming up with scenarios to keep the love coming.

Early on wife committed adultery four times, although he did so twice (one EA and one ONS) so he is no saint either. Her behavior described was that of a CSA like Alco's. She is a family counselor. She only told him the truth after writing a tell all book. And the band played on.

He has one post that seemed real. It is on a thread by a poster who's wife had severe CSA. I meet uptown on that thread. Majdeath post was every bit as crisp and on point and as uptown. 


So again I have to ask you Major Death, what is really up with you?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I am beginning to think that 95% of TAM posters are disgruntled former spouses who have lifetime wounds caused by D and want to lash out at those who figured it out and overcame infidelity. Next year will be our 20th anniversary and our married life is the best it has ever been, mostly because we have identified the problems from 12 yrs ago and what we did wrong. 
I have stated repeatedly that her being manipulated by this OM was never an excuse for her choice to get involved with him. But it made it much harder to end the relationship once she figured out what he was doing. She had other relationships with absolutely zero psychological manipulation, so why is it so hard to believe this could happen? It is rare.
Was I being manipulated by her? Yes for a time. But once I figured out she was cake eating (by me providing for her needs so she could be free to run around with others) I hit her with D filing paperwork. I regret I didn't do it sooner, knowing what I know now. It stopped that cake eating and ultimately was the genesis for her turnaround.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

BetrayedDad said:


> I was thinking the same EXACT thing... More like, " Psychological Manipulation by WW".
> 
> This OP posts thread after thread of psycho analysis for the cheating scum he is married to in a sad attempt to find the reason for her actions.
> 
> ...


yeah, I was like that too. Then a friend told me, that just because some people hold "official" roles in your life, like Husband and Mother, it doesn't mean that they will always be in your corner.

You must accept, Maj, just like others, that there is NO GOOD REASON/ EXCUSE as to why your wife did the things that she did.

It could simply be "because she felt like it."


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Really Majdeath, 

Nice passive aggressive pysco babble defection. Your post on David's thread impressed me. Clear, precise, concise writing always causes me to sit up a notice. It is an ability I wish I had. None of your others post do so. 

So, again: what is the story?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

John, not sure what you are asking? Psychological manipulation is real, albeit somewhat rare at the individual level. OM2's behavior indicates narcissistic personality disorder, with a massive need to control.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

There's more holes in this story, than in a block of great Swiss cheese.

Have a nice day!


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