# Questions concerning dividing the bills.



## corneileous

I guess this is the proper forum for this question but AnyWho, as the title says, I’m just curious about the proper way to split bills between one another and primarily what my question is, I got engaged to a girl who already owns her own house that she’s making payments on and I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her expecting me to pay for half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means I also don’t have any say about what happens with the house what we do with it, unless she agrees with it of course but as far as how the house is decorated or what color the walls are, I really don’t care but I don’t know, please correct me if I’m wrong for feeling like being that it’s not my house and that it will never be my house why I should be ok with half the house payment as mine.

I love this girl a lot but it’s kind of starting to make me feel like I’m just renting the place except I am in a romantic relationship with the landlord and live under the same roof.

I keep telling her that my goal is not to take her house away from her, even in the event of a divorce if that ever happens but still, on the same token, it’s kind of hard to make it feel like it’s my place because although she says she’s sharing it with me but, it’s still not my house.

Granted, I realize that if I was renting my own place, the only money that I would ever get back if I moved out would be my security deposit but is that how this is supposed to be, I’m basically renting what I’m having to pay half for each month? Whenever we talk… Or should I say argue about this, she gets frustrated at me and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand this is how it has to be and that this is me paying to live there when I’m already paying half the bills with her among other things. I’ve bought stuff for her house, I’m supplying the Netflix, the Hulu live and the Amazon prime, even buy groceries a lot of the times as well so as far as I’m concerned, I’m paying my fair share I guess I’m just asking for advice and opinions on if Im wrong in thinking I shouldn’t be paying for half of a house payment on a house that’ll never be mine. Thanks.


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## Livvie

Don't pay for half the mortgage on a house that will never be yours, as she says. 

So what, you are planning on never becoming a homeowner and accumulating equity in a home? Are you okay with that?

If not, rethink this engagement now, before it's too late. 

Maybe you should buy _your own_ house and go live in it. That way you can each have your own. Because she doesn't want to share, right?


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## minimalME

Livvie said:


> ...rethink this engagement now, before it's too late.


I agree with this. 

The two of you need to sort out your views/philosophies about money before getting married.


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## corneileous

I think I can kinda understand a little bit where she’s coming from being that when she got out of her last marriage- well, it wasn’t really a marriage, it more of a common law thing or how ever the state of Oklahoma views it but when she moved out, her ex did take out a loan and paid her for half of the house being that they bought it together but, I kinda get the feeling she doesn’t want to have to do that all over again if things go south with me, or whoever else she could be with and I do respect that part but on the other hand, I’m just not cool with the part about having to pay half her house payment when she clearly stated it’s hers and not mine which for some reasons I’m cool with because if things do go south, I can just pack up, leave and walk away not having to worry about anything except finding a new place, of course.

I dunno, would anybody y’all be ok with splitting a house payment if the house wasn’t yours?


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## Diana7

Why not buy a home together that could belong to both of you?


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## TexasMom1216

No. I would not pay for a house in which I would never gain equity.


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## minimalME

corneileous said:


> I think I can kinda understand a little bit where she’s coming from...


This is why you really need to work through this together - now.

It's not just about the house or the house payments.

It's about what's going on inside her. It's about how she thinks about marriage, money and you.


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## DownByTheRiver

I don't see any way of doing it except for you to pay rent to her if you're going to live there. It's her house. IMO, the rent should be what you'd expect to pay on the open market if it was you and a roommate sharing a rent home. Your name isn't on the house. It's hers. Of course, you could decide to buy a home together and rent that one out or sell it. I think though if you already have this type of money disagreement, not sure how this will all work out. You can't expect her to just give you half her house she's been paying on that is in her name.


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## Andy1001

How does what she wants you to pay compare to average rent in your district?


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## ah_sorandy

Offer to pay for half of all of the operating expenses only. The house is hers, she's not willing to give you co-ownership, so she can foot the bill for the mortgage. 

Why should you pay to give her more property equity that you will not be entitled to?


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## corneileous

Diana7 said:


> Why not buy a home together that could belong to both of you?


I guess that could be an option if she’d go for it but the thing is, I don’t have the money to put down on one and at this point, I’m not even sure she’d be interested in refinancing the house in both our names because of the fact that she’s already stated that when she dies, her house is going to her two kids which I can understand and she even said that if that happens, I would still be able to live out my days there instead of being forced to up and leave so they can have their inheritance. Not that I probably would, I would more than likely just take as much time as I needed to find my own place and move out.


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## Openminded

What are your ages?


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## corneileous

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't see any way of doing it except for you to pay rent to her if you're going to live there. It's her house. IMO, the rent should be what you'd expect to pay on the open market if it was you and a roommate sharing a rent home. Your name isn't on the house. It's hers. Of course, you could decide to buy a home together and rent that one out or sell it. I think though if you already have this type of money disagreement, not sure how this will all work out. You can't expect her to just give you half her house she's been paying on that is in her name.


so let me get this straight; you think I should essentially pay her rent but even though her house payment is only $500 a month that I should be paying her the equivalent to what the average rent is? What kind of crap is that? Am I understanding you correctly?


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## corneileous

TexasMom1216 said:


> No. I would not pay for a house in which I would never gain equity.


I know there’s been others that have said this but see, this is how I feel because in the past almost 4 years that I moved in with her and we split the bills up, $250 of what I pay her every month for my half of the bills is going to half of her monthly house payment which adds up to $12,000 for a total of four exact years. $12,000 and counting that I’ll never see again that she benefits from getting her house paid off quicker.


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## HurtinFl

May I ask if you are older? My mom's last (and current) marriage began in her mid 50's. She purchased her home on her own. My step-dads name was never put on the deed (she paid it off shortly after they married.) In her will she made a provision for him to stay there and pay the taxes and insurance until he passes or decides to leave. After this the house goes to myself & my sister. They do keep their money separate with the exception of expenses such as groceries and utilities.


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## TexasMom1216

corneileous said:


> I know there’s been others that have said this but see, this is how I feel because in the past almost 4 years that I moved in with her and we split the bills up, $250 of what I pay her every month for my half of the bills is going to half of her monthly house payment which adds up to $12,000 for a total of four exact years. $12,000 and counting that I’ll never see again that she benefits from getting her house paid off quicker.


I’m confused. You’re paying half the bills and the money for your half of the bills isn’t going to the bills? How are you dividing the bills?


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## corneileous

minimalME said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> The two of you need to sort out your views/philosophies about money before getting married.


I think we do too but I almost feel like if I try to have this talk again with her that I might as well just pack up and leave because she has it set in her mind let me paying half the bills and half of her house payment is part of me paying for my house to live there. Which, I don’t mind having to pay all that, I guess what I’m more or less have a problem with is the fact that she just says that this will never be my house if that makes any sense. I don’t know, maybe this is all just because of the fact that I just don’t think no matter what we do, she doesn’t want me to have partial ownership of her house because if anything ever goes sour, she doesn’t wanna have to be the one to pack up and leave and then basically have to start all over again.


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## corneileous

Openminded said:


> What are your ages?


46.


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## corneileous

HurtinFl said:


> May I ask if you are older? My mom's last (and current) marriage began in her mid 50's. She purchased her home on her own. My step-dads name was never put on the deed (she paid it off shortly after they married.) In her will she made a provision for him to stay there and pay the taxes and insurance until he passes or decides to leave. After this the house goes to myself & my sister. They do keep their money separate with the exception of expenses such as groceries and utilities.


Well that’s nice that she paid it off beforehand and he never did have to pay half of a house payment that would never be his.


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## RebuildingMe

Divorced, two kids in tow and she’s already saying what’s hers is hers but I want you to pay to help fund my kids lives when I’m dead. If I understand this correctly, I can’t endorse you getting married to this woman.


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## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> so let me get this straight; you think I should essentially pay her rent but even though her house payment is only $500 a month that I should be paying her the equivalent to what the average rent is? What kind of crap is that? Am I understanding you correctly?


Or maybe she only would want half of that, which would be a VERY good deal for you and save you a bunch of rent money, let's face it.


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## HurtinFl

corneileous said:


> Well that’s nice that she paid it off beforehand and he never did have to pay half of a house payment that would never be his.


She shouldn't make you feel like a guest. If you are both considering marriage it also depends on what state you live in. Is it a communial state?Maybe she could put some sort of stipulation in her own will that you stay in the home until you pass if you are married at time time she passes? If you have kids as well this is when it would be unfair to her own children.


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## corneileous

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m confused. You’re paying half the bills and the money for your half of the bills isn’t going to the bills? How are you dividing the bills?


She pretty much took all the bills- utilities, internet and the house payment, added them all up and I pay half that amount on top of paying for quite a bit of groceries for us and her son when he’s there, including Netflix, Hulu live and Amazon prime.


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## minimalME

corneileous said:


> I think we do too but I almost feel like if I try to have this talk again with her that I might as well just pack up and leave because she has it set in her mind let me paying half the bills and half of her house payment is part of me paying for my house to live there. Which, I don’t mind having to pay all that, I guess what I’m more or less have a problem with is the fact that she just says that *this will never be my house* if that makes any sense. I don’t know, maybe this is all just because of the fact that I just don’t think no matter what we do, she doesn’t want me to have partial ownership of her house because if anything ever goes sour, she doesn’t wanna have to be the one to pack up and leave and then basically have to start all over again.


Then why get married? 😳 

Just shack up. Or stay in your seperate places. Why pretend you're gonna be married? That's not a marriage.

Why would she say something like that to you? It doesn''t come from a place of genuine love. It's selfish.

I don't say this be offensive, but she doesn't sound like she's in a marrying frame of mind.


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## TexasMom1216

corneileous said:


> She pretty much took all the bills- utilities, internet and the house payment, added them all up and I pay half that amount on top of paying for quite a bit of groceries for us and her son when he’s there, including Netflix, Hulu live and Amazon prime.


So does she add that up every month, or did she add it up once and set a standard amount? And why is the house payment included, does she call that “rent”?


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## TexasMom1216

minimalME said:


> Then why get married? 😳
> 
> Just shack up. Or stay in your seperate places. Why pretend you're gonna be married? That's not a marriage.
> 
> Why would she say something like that to you? It doesn''t come from a place of genuine love. It's selfish.
> 
> I don't say this be offensive, but she doesn't sound like she's in a marrying frame of mind.


Same. I understand she doesn’t want to end up homeless after a divorce but the best way to do that is don’t marry a man you can’t trust not to do that. If you don’t think you have the judgement to determine if someone is trustworthy or not, don’t marry.


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## corneileous

RebuildingMe said:


> Divorced, two kids in tow and she’s already saying what’s hers is hers but I want you to pay to help fund my kids lives when I’m dead. If I understand this correctly, I can’t endorse you getting married to this woman.


Wow. Not a wow like, holy crap, how could you say that kind of wow but wow, you’re kind of hitting the nail on the head there but yes, this is kind of how I feel because in the exact four years that I will have lived there, I will have put $12,000 towards her house that she didn’t have to pay for but she’s saying that by me paying for half the house payment also is paying to live there which, don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect to live there for free but it’s just that whole concept of helping to pay on a mortgage that I won’t get anything out of because I might as well go rent my own house if the money that I put into it is something I’m never going to get back.


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## corneileous

TexasMom1216 said:


> So does she add that up every month, or did she add it up once and set a standard amount? And why is the house payment included, does she call that “rent”?


She just did this one time and that’s what we go by but she brought it up today that she may have to increase that because with everything that’s going on right now, some of the bills have gotten a little bit more expensive and then I made the mistake of bringing up that I’m already paying for half of her house.


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## TexasMom1216

corneileous said:


> She just did this one time and that’s what we go by but she brought it up today that she may have to increase that because with everything that’s going on right now, some of the bills have gotten a little bit more expensive and then I made the mistake of bringing up that I’m already paying for half of her house.


I’m still not sure I understand, if she is charging you a set amount as “rent” to live there and you’re unhappy with that amount, did you discuss that with her? You keep saying you’re paying “toward the mortgage.” People buy homes and rent them out and use the rent to pay the mortgage on that house. But their tenants have no claim to equity in the house. It sounds as though she is treating you like a tenant instead of a life partner. Which makes me think marriage is probably not a great idea.


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## Livvie

Yes. Do not marry her. Get your own place, pay for your own life and let her pay for hers by herself. 

Basically, you are subsidizing HER life, she is building equity in a house you will never own, and you get NOTHING out of it. 

She's not interested in partnering with you, she's using you.


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## LATERILUS79

Yeah….. she’s playing the “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine” game.

I think you all could come up with a compromise with a prenup. Certainly there is something you can do where the money you put towards the house can be saved and she gets to keep her house in the event of a divorce?


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## jonty30

corneileous said:


> I guess this is the proper forum for this question but AnyWho, as the title says, I’m just curious about the proper way to split bills between one another and primarily what my question is, I got engaged to a girl who already owns her own house that she’s making payments on and I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her expecting me to pay for half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means I also don’t have any say about what happens with the house what we do with it, unless she agrees with it of course but as far as how the house is decorated or what color the walls are, I really don’t care but I don’t know, please correct me if I’m wrong for feeling like being that it’s not my house and that it will never be my house why I should be ok with half the house payment as mine.
> 
> I love this girl a lot but it’s kind of starting to make me feel like I’m just renting the place except I am in a romantic relationship with the landlord and live under the same roof.
> 
> I keep telling her that my goal is not to take her house away from her, even in the event of a divorce if that ever happens but still, on the same token, it’s kind of hard to make it feel like it’s my place because although she says she’s sharing it with me but, it’s still not my house.
> 
> Granted, I realize that if I was renting my own place, the only money that I would ever get back if I moved out would be my security deposit but is that how this is supposed to be, I’m basically renting what I’m having to pay half for each month? Whenever we talk… Or should I say argue about this, she gets frustrated at me and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand this is how it has to be and that this is me paying to live there when I’m already paying half the bills with her among other things. I’ve bought stuff for her house, I’m supplying the Netflix, the Hulu live and the Amazon prime, even buy groceries a lot of the times as well so as far as I’m concerned, I’m paying my fair share I guess I’m just asking for advice and opinions on if Im wrong in thinking I shouldn’t be paying for half of a house payment on a house that’ll never be mine. Thanks.


Common expenses should have a common account. 
Individual expenses should have an individual accounts, where each person gets an equal amount to spend on themselves as they wish.


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## Diana7

corneileous said:


> I think we do too but I almost feel like if I try to have this talk again with her that I might as well just pack up and leave because she has it set in her mind let me paying half the bills and half of her house payment is part of me paying for my house to live there. Which, I don’t mind having to pay all that, I guess what I’m more or less have a problem with is the fact that she just says that this will never be my house if that makes any sense. I don’t know, maybe this is all just because of the fact that I just don’t think no matter what we do, she doesn’t want me to have partial ownership of her house because if anything ever goes sour, she doesn’t wanna have to be the one to pack up and leave and then basically have to start all over again.


If she has made provision for you to live there as long as you need to if she dies first then in essence it is your home.


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## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> I think we do too but I almost feel like if I try to have this talk again with her that I might as well just pack up and leave because she has it set in her mind let me paying half the bills and half of her house payment is part of me paying for my house to live there. Which, I don’t mind having to pay all that, I guess what I’m more or less have a problem with is the fact that she just says that this will never be my house if that makes any sense. I don’t know, maybe this is all just because of the fact that I just don’t think no matter what we do, she doesn’t want me to have partial ownership of her house because if anything ever goes sour, she doesn’t wanna have to be the one to pack up and leave and then basically have to start all over again.


I don't get it. I mean you're going to have to pay rent somewhere. You're just not a reason in the world why she should let you live there for free or just paying part of the bills. One way or the other you should be paying half what it's costing to live there. You'll be doing more than that if you were out on your own.


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## corneileous

Diana7 said:


> If she has made provision for you to live there as long as you need to if she dies first then in essence it is your home.


Egh, not really. Well, yeah, I guess it would be if I stay there until my dying days being that I don’t have any kids of my own to leave anything to when I die but if I decide to move out shortly after that happened, the 20 grand or whatever the amount is I ended up help paying won’t ever be seen by me again when her kids sell the house for whatever it’s worth and split the profits.


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## TexasMom1216

corneileous said:


> Egh, not really. Well, yeah, I guess it would be if I stay there until my dying days being that I don’t have any kids of my own to leave anything to when I die but if I decide to move out shortly after that happened, the 20 grand or whatever the amount is I ended up help paying won’t ever be seen by me again when her kids sell the house for whatever it’s worth and split the profits.


This is obviously bugging you. Instead of overanalyzing it, just tell her you will not marry her under these circumstances. Or better yet, leave. You feel taken advantage of, correct? I mean, whether we see all the details or not, there is something in this relationship that is making you feel used. No one deserves to be used. Don't let her do this to you. Some things are worse than being alone.


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## corneileous

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't get it. I mean you're going to have to pay rent somewhere. You're just not a reason in the world why she should let you live there for free or just paying part of the bills. One way or the other you should be paying half what it's costing to live there. You'll be doing more than that if you were out on your own.


As I’ve said, that’s not really the issue. I have no problem paying my fair share. The issue I have is putting a fairly large sun of money into something I’ll never get back. I could run the idea by her about refinancing the house she has together in both our names but see, that’s just it. That’s not what she wants. She doesn’t want my name on it period but still expects me to essentially pay half her house off and call it part of the living expenses.


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## Sfort

The number one cause of divorce in the US is money. If Dave Ramsey is correct, the chances of your marriage succeeding long term are microscopically low.


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## Openminded

She’s made her position clear. Now you have to decide if that’s a dealbreaker.


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## corneileous

TexasMom1216 said:


> This is obviously bugging you. Instead of overanalyzing it, just tell her you will not marry her under these circumstances. Or better yet, leave. You feel taken advantage of, correct? I mean, whether we see all the details or not, there is something in this relationship that is making you feel used. No one deserves to be used. Don't let her do this to you. Some things are worse than being alone.


Yeah, it is bugging me. I just get the feeling that it’s not me personally, it’s just anyone in general she’s not allowing herself to trust. I really don’t know what the deal is. I just feel like I live here as a tenant with benefits with no say in anything and I don’t dare try to talk her into doing something with her house that she don’t want to.


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## TexasMom1216

corneileous said:


> Yeah, it is bugging me. I just get the feeling that it’s not me personally, it’s just anyone in general she’s not allowing herself to trust. I really don’t know what the deal is. I just feel like I live here as a tenant with benefits with no say in anything and I don’t dare try to talk her into doing something with her house that she don’t want to.


OK, listen. I'm an old woman, and I have never ever in my whole life been able to trust anyone. Ever. It has to do with my past, long story. Anyway, this is HER problem and she is making it your problem. If you've told her that it hurts you for her to treat you like she can't trust you and she still does it, she is making a choice. Her fear, her worry, that is HERS. Not yours. If she can't be fully present you need to know that now, because I promise it will not get better. Therapy, counseling, long talks, give it a try, but do the best you can for as long as you can and then SAVE YOURSELF. You are not taking this woman to raise. It isn't 1950, women aren't children. She needs to get her head straight because you don't deserve to be unhappy because of her issues. Remember, I'm a stranger on the internet, but I'm just saying.


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## pastasauce79

Why do you want to get married to someone who doesn't trust marriage? It doesn't make sense to me.

At the same time, why don't you own something at 46? 

If you don't have the money to buy something right now, $250 a month for rent is a very good deal to me. 

Why don't you keep dating, live with her until you get the money to buy something of your own, then decide if you want to continue living with her or not. But don't get married. I don't think it's a good idea to get married in your situation. You both want different things. She doesn't trust marriage and you feel like a tenant.


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## SongoftheSouth

Its her house; however, once you marry and especially begin making payments on it that could be considered community property irregardless of how the deed is titled. It would be better to spell it out prior to marriage than wait for the divorce. Make an agreement that the home will remain exclusively her property in the event of a divorce; however, as such she will pay the mortgage payments, property taxes and insurance. This is exactly what prenuptial agreements are designed for.

If you do pay for mortgage, taxes, insurance etc... make sure you pay directly to lending institution holding the mortgage and the taxes if in escrow and keep a record of it. Wen the divorce occurs you have a claim of community property.


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## Anastasia6

And what would you consider fair?

if you lived somewhere elseyou’d have to pay something.


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## romantic_dreamer

With your fiance's attitude you are making huge mistake marrying her. You will be paying not only for house but for a lot more before you will realize what a mistake you made.


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## aine

corneileous said:


> I guess this is the proper forum for this question but AnyWho, as the title says, I’m just curious about the proper way to split bills between one another and primarily what my question is, I got engaged to a girl who already owns her own house that she’s making payments on and I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her expecting me to pay for half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means I also don’t have any say about what happens with the house what we do with it, unless she agrees with it of course but as far as how the house is decorated or what color the walls are, I really don’t care but I don’t know, please correct me if I’m wrong for feeling like being that it’s not my house and that it will never be my house why I should be ok with half the house payment as mine.
> 
> I love this girl a lot but it’s kind of starting to make me feel like I’m just renting the place except I am in a romantic relationship with the landlord and live under the same roof.
> 
> I keep telling her that my goal is not to take her house away from her, even in the event of a divorce if that ever happens but still, on the same token, it’s kind of hard to make it feel like it’s my place because although she says she’s sharing it with me but, it’s still not my house.
> 
> Granted, I realize that if I was renting my own place, the only money that I would ever get back if I moved out would be my security deposit but is that how this is supposed to be, I’m basically renting what I’m having to pay half for each month? Whenever we talk… Or should I say argue about this, she gets frustrated at me and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand this is how it has to be and that this is me paying to live there when I’m already paying half the bills with her among other things. I’ve bought stuff for her house, I’m supplying the Netflix, the Hulu live and the Amazon prime, even buy groceries a lot of the times as well so as far as I’m concerned, I’m paying my fair share I guess I’m just asking for advice and opinions on if Im wrong in thinking I shouldn’t be paying for half of a house payment on a house that’ll never be mine. Thanks.


You need to explain to her what you explained to us. Why should you pay half her mortgage when you have no say and are not even married. I suggest you find out the market rental rates in your area and tell her you will pay that amount. if you have the money, I suggest you put an investment into your own home, pay the mortgage and rent it out if you still want to live with her and pay her rent only.


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## aine

corneileous said:


> so let me get this straight; you think I should essentially pay her rent but even though her house payment is only $500 a month that I should be paying her the equivalent to what the average rent is? What kind of crap is that? Am I understanding you correctly?


Yes of course! what is wrong with that? Are you suggesting you should live there for free? This is a perfectly good solution. Now you are saying your share of the mortgage is much lower than rent you would have to pay on the open market, you are the one talking crap! Impute the value of rent and total shared expenses and split it down the middle. Simple. And I understand why she want no man with his name on her house when she wants to leave something to the kids. Perfectly understandable.


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## aine

corneileous said:


> 46.


You are 46 and don't own your own property? Hmmmmm


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## aine

corneileous said:


> I know there’s been others that have said this but see, this is how I feel because in the past almost 4 years that I moved in with her and we split the bills up, $250 of what I pay her every month for my half of the bills is going to half of her monthly house payment which adds up to $12,000 for a total of four exact years. $12,000 and counting that I’ll never see again that she benefits from getting her house paid off quicker.


Yes but another way to look at it is using the concept of opportunity cost. If you were not living with her and making use of the whole house, you would have to pay rent elsewhere, right? Alternatively, if you were not in her life, perhaps she rent out one of the rooms and make an additional income, right. So bottom line is that you are should be imputing a rent, otherwise you are basically saying you should live there for free. How do you split the bills?


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## aine

corneileous said:


> Wow. Not a wow like, holy crap, how could you say that kind of wow but wow, you’re kind of hitting the nail on the head there but yes, this is kind of how I feel because in the exact four years that I will have lived there, I will have put $12,000 towards her house that she didn’t have to pay for but she’s saying that by me paying for half the house payment also is paying to live there which, don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect to live there for free but it’s just that whole concept of helping to pay on a mortgage that I won’t get anything out of because I might as well go rent my own house if the money that I put into it is something I’m never going to get back.


You have come up with your own solution. Rent your own place (pay more than you are currently paying it seems for half of the mortgage), however you will have your privacy, space etc and will only have to pay for your own Netflx etc and your own groceries. See your lady on weekends, etc. Problem solved.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't see any way of doing it except for you to pay rent to her if you're going to live there. It's her house. IMO, the rent should be what you'd expect to pay on the open market if it was you and a roommate sharing a rent home. Your name isn't on the house. It's hers. Of course, you could decide to buy a home together and rent that one out or sell it. I think though if you already have this type of money disagreement, not sure how this will all work out. You can't expect her to just give you half her house she's been paying on that is in her name.


@corneileous 

Pay rent like you do or would anywhere else, and only 1/2 of all monthly bills. Or *Buy* half the equity from her and put your name on the mortgage is only way this could be both of yours house

The issue to work out is future finance handling as a couple.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @corneileous
> 
> Pay rent like you do or would anywhere else, and only 1/2 of all monthly bills. Or *Buy* half the equity from her and put your name on the mortgage is only way this could be both of yours house
> 
> The issue to work out is future finance handling as a couple.


This is the only way a self sufficient man would do it. 
You should be embarrassed if you want her to give you half the house's value she acquired and she paid for before you two got engaged or she let you move into her house.


----------



## Married but Happy

Pay her half the equity in the house, get added to the deed and the mortgage - THEN you have a say in ownership, etc. Until then, you should be paying a fair rent, otherwise you are taking advantage of her. Even when you get married - if you do, and I think she should reconsider marrying such an entitled bastard as yourself - the house is all hers as long as she is careful about how it's handled (no commingling of funds and ownership), and she should keep it that way until you pay her half the equity as I first suggested. What are you bringing to this relationship financially, other than entitlement?

She _could _give you a break and set rent at half of all housing expenses (mortgage + taxes + utilities + maintenance, etc.), but I suggest that be in writing and continue even after you marry. This is her asset, not yours, and you don't deserve a stake in it.


----------



## corneileous

pastasauce79 said:


> Why do you want to get married to someone who doesn't trust marriage? It doesn't make sense to me.


At this point I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t at least considering it but hopefully this weekend maybe we can sit down and talk about this in a more civil manner and try to come up with something. The couple times we have talked about this, she’s at least said or suggested to me going and buying my own house but she just gets so defensive and upset every time this subject comes up because at least with the way things currently are right now, being that she had this house before I came into the picture, she really makes it sound as though no matter what happens, she doesn’t want me to have any ownership at all of her house; I’m not sure if that means on anything or just the house that she has because she had it before I came into the picture.



> At the same time, why don't you own something at 46?


Probably because it just never worked out that way. Me and my last wife only rented while we were together and when things in that relationship went south and I moved away, I ended up just living with my mom. Probably should have gotten my own place but being that I drive truck and was spending quite a bit of time away from home, it just didn’t make sense to spend money on a place when I could just save money and share the utilities with her. And then 5 years later, I met her and moved in with her.



> If you don't have the money to buy something right now, $250 a month for rent is a very good deal to me.


You’re right, it is but that’s not the point. The problem is, I shouldn’t be treated like a live-in tenant who’s helping pay off a house that’ll never be mine nor will I have any share of the equity I’ve put into it.


----------



## D0nnivain

corneileous said:


> As I’ve said, that’s not really the issue. I have no problem paying my fair share. The issue I have is putting a fairly large sun of money into something I’ll never get back. I could run the idea by her about refinancing the house she has together in both our names but see, that’s just it. That’s not what she wants. She doesn’t want my name on it period but still expects me to essentially pay half her house off and call it part of the living expenses.


Marriage should be share & share alike, what's mines is yours, what's yours is mine & vice versa, we all are a whole. 
n=
But money & per-existing considerations like equity & children change that dynamic a bit. 

@corneileous Your FI lived with somebody else & bought a house with him. Then when they split up she had to buy him out. She understandably doesn't want to repeat that headache. No matter where you live, you will have some costs for rent & bills. The 1st thing you need to do is figure out how much you would spend on your own to live alone. Now compare that to what she wants you to pay 1/2 the bills & 1/2 her very cheap mortgage. If what she is seeking is no more than half of what you would pay alone, consider it a windfall. In fact, if I was you I'd bank the difference every month. That way you will eventually have enough for a down payment on another piece of property that you can buy outright later either with her -- if she kicks in additional money to the down payment -- or as separate property but you may need an ante-nuptial agreement to protect that. 

When DH & I married, I had previously purchased a house with a lot of equity in it. I didn't want to lose that whole investment if we divorced. So we had the house appraised to determine it's value when we married. Our pre-nup says that value belongs to me & comes off the top. He contributed to the mortgage once he moved in. If we divorce we split the increased value of the home over & above it's value as of the date we married. Perhaps offer your lady this compromise so she knows she keeps the bulk of the equity but you get something too. Another aspect may be that her will specifies that you retain a life estate in the home if she dies 1st but upon your death or moving out, the house goes to the kids.


----------



## corneileous

Anastasia6 said:


> And what would you consider fair?


I guess what I would consider fair would be like what most people do in a marriage where certain things like a house is owned jointly and we both try to pay it off together but quite frankly, I think she’s too worried about if something goes south, she doesn’t want to have to start all over again and find a new place because she bought this one by herself that’s hers that in her mind can’t ever be taken away from her but then again I don’t know totally until we can have a civilized conversation about it.



> if you lived somewhere elseyou’d have to pay something.


You’re right but then again, that’s not the point. I’ve actually stated several times now that I’m not looking to stay there for free. I just don’t think it’s right to make somebody pay for half your house payment that you don’t want to fully share to where basically what it all adds up to is I’m helping to pay her house off but I won’t ever see anything out of it.


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## Livvie

The problem is she expects him to marry her, live in a house and contribute to the mortgage, and NEVER get to own it! She never wants to own it with him.

Why even get married? Live together for awhile, and save for your OWN house.

Did she expect you to never own property? That's what she expects if you marry her. 

No thanks.


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## Sfort

It sounds like you're negotiating a roommate arrangement, not a marriage. 

It doesn't just not work out that you don't have assets at 46. You have to make it happen. If you plan to retire, you only have 20 years left to create retirement security. Hopefully you can't be satisfied with meager Social Security income.


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## Livvie

Bottom line: if she wants to be the sole owner of the house, then she needs to be the only person paying the mortgage, taxes, insurance, upkeep, repairs, etc.

Are you satisfied never owning real property and never having equity in property?

I sure as f wouldn't be.


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## lifeistooshort

I'm a woman who owns a house by myself. First of all, I'd never marry a man who had no money for a down payment but expected to either live for free with me or be put on the deed to my house that he has thus far contributed nothing to.

Acceptable options for me 

1. He'd pay me some money towards operating expenses. I'd never ask for market value rent....that seems petty to me....but he's not living here rent free.

2. As others have suggested, he could buy some of the current equity from me and get on the deed. I'd not be thrilled about having him on the deed but not on the mortgage so we'd have to see if refinancing made sense.

3. Possibly work something out in writing granting me the current equity and splitting future equity once he starts contributing. We'd have to see a lawyer to see how legally binding that was in a divorce.

I'm wondering if the reaction would be different if we had a middle aged man with his own house getting ready to marry a woman with no money who was demanding to either be put on the deed or live rent free. I can't imagine this would go over well, especially among the I've been screwed by divorce crowd.


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## Jimmysgirl

I'm the same age as you. I owned a house outright when I married my hubby. His name is now on the deed. We're married and the house is ours. I'm not "protecting" it. 
I also moved into his house when we married. His is rented, not owned. I completely understand the feeling of the house not being yours, he tells me to do whatever I want but we have completely different taste in decorating and such and I feel weird redoing the place he's lived for so long. Maybe when we buy another house together it'll feel different, I don't know. I probably still don't be able to decorate "my way" if I feel he'll not love it. 
As far as rent though, you're a man and trust me, few woman are going to have any respect for you if you're letting her fully support you. We spend 250 a month in property taxes on our house. It costs that much in upkeep let alone a mortgage payment. Is that more than you were paying on your own?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

corneileous said:


> At this point I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t at least considering it but hopefully this weekend maybe we can sit down and talk about this in a more civil manner and try to come up with something. The couple times we have talked about this, she’s at least said or suggested to me going and buying my own house but she just gets so defensive and upset every time this subject comes up because at least with the way things currently are right now, being that she had this house before I came into the picture, she really makes it sound as though no matter what happens, she doesn’t want me to have any ownership at all of her house; I’m not sure if that means on anything or just the house that she has because she had it before I came into the picture.
> 
> 
> Probably because it just never worked out that way. Me and my last wife only rented while we were together and when things in that relationship went south and I moved away, I ended up just living with my mom. Probably should have gotten my own place but being that I drive truck and was spending quite a bit of time away from home, it just didn’t make sense to spend money on a place when I could just save money and share the utilities with her. And then 5 years later, I met her and moved in with her.
> 
> 
> You’re right, it is but that’s not the point. The problem is, I shouldn’t be treated like a live-in tenant who’s helping pay off a house that’ll never be mine nor will I have any share of the equity I’ve put into it.


You have answers posted already. What are you going to do?


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## Anastasia6

You know what it’s not unusual at all for second marriages to keep separate finances. And statistically there’s a much higher chance of the two of you splitting on the second marriage than the first. So of course she’d like to keep the house that she bought before she knew you. Any marriage needs to sit down and work out finances before they get married. But frankly it does seem like you’re trying to get something for free.


----------



## minimalME

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm wondering if the reaction would be different if we had a middle aged man with his own house getting ready to marry a woman with no money who was demanding to either be put on the deed or live rent free. I can't imagine this would go over well, especially among the I've been screwed by divorce crowd.


He's not demanding anything. 😳 

To me, he's here in order to be balanced and reasonable in his expectations and communication.

And he's made it very clear that it's not paying that bothers him. You guys keep going off about freeloading, and that's not his issue.


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## D0nnivain

@corneileous

When you sit & talk with her try to remember she's scared & she's been burned before. Acknowledge her fears but ask her to consider how ostracized she's making you feel. Then brainstorm together about possible solutions.


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## Livvie

Anastasia6 said:


> You know what it’s not unusual at all for second marriages to keep separate finances. And statistically there’s a much higher chance of the two of you splitting on the second marriage than the first. So of course she’d like to keep the house that she bought before she knew you. Any marriage needs to sit down and work out finances before they get married. But frankly it does seem like you’re trying to get something for free.


But if this is going to be their forever marital home, is he supposed to never own property for the rest of his life?

That doesn't seem right.


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## TexasMom1216

This is actually an excellent example of when a pre-nup is a great idea. All these terms could be hammered out by an attorney to everyone's satisfaction. Of course, both parties have to come to the table willing to negotiate and make compromises.


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## LisaDiane

corneileous said:


> I think I can kinda understand a little bit where she’s coming from being that when she got out of her last marriage- well, it wasn’t really a marriage, it more of a common law thing or how ever the state of Oklahoma views it but when she moved out, her ex did take out a loan and paid her for half of the house being that they bought it together but, I kinda get the feeling she doesn’t want to have to do that all over again if things go south with me, or whoever else she could be with and I do respect that part but on the other hand, I’m just not cool with the part about having to pay half her house payment when she clearly stated it’s hers and not mine which for some reasons I’m cool with because if things do go south, I can just pack up, leave and walk away not having to worry about anything except finding a new place, of course.
> *
> I dunno, would anybody y’all be ok with splitting a house payment if the house wasn’t yours?*


YES...it's called RENT. If you live with her, you should split the cost of the living expenses. Period. 
Living in anyone's house usually means you reimburse them for sharing and using their space and utilities.

So I'm not sure what you are having a problem with...do you want to live there for free?...or do you want to be part owner of the property?

What if you lived with a friend who owned their own house?

Sure you are paying half her house payment, that's what she is charging you to live with her. What if she was living with you in your apartment or house? Would you let her stay for free, because she didn't own the property?


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## LisaDiane

What would be the advice if this was a guy who owned his own house, and his fiance had this guy's problem...?

I'm pretty sure I've read the men of TAM telling other men NOT to share their biggest asset acquired before their marriage with a new wife...and even not to marry her specifically so she can't force him to share. 
So why is it different when it's a woman with the asset?

Unless I'm misunderstanding something...but I don't think I am.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

@corneileous are you invested enough to buy half the equity or together buy a different house?


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## LisaDiane

Livvie said:


> But if this is going to be their forever marital home, is he supposed to never own property for the rest of his life?
> 
> That doesn't seem right.


I agree with this...is she saying she will NEVER allow you to be co-owner of her home, even after you are married?

If that's a problem for you, you shouldn't marry her.


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## minimalME

LisaDiane said:


> What if you lived with a friend who owned their own house?


A friend and husband are not the same. 

I find the thinking on this thread bizarre, and it makes me grateful to be single. 😅


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## *Deidre*

If you were renting a home (from a stranger), you wouldn’t have any equity in it and you would never own it, so that might be where she’s coming from and doesn’t want to be taken advantage of, in the event you both break up. But in the end, if this bothers you, and she’s not willing to budge on adding your name to the house once you’re married, you may have to consider moving on.

I think the red flag that’s coming out of this to be honest, is that she has trust issues, so much so, that she wants to keep you at arm’s length. That’s not really how relationships grow. So, if this doesn’t work for you, go rent somewhere else, stay together and see if she changes her mind. If not, you should cut your losses and move on.


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## LisaDiane

minimalME said:


> A friend and husband are not the same.
> 
> I find the thinking on this thread bizarre, and it makes me grateful to be single. 😅


Well, he's not the husband yet...that's the perspective I'm coming from. Once they are married, I think he has rights to the property whether his name is on it or not, as long as he's been paying for it and can prove it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

@corneileous no one is going to say you're entitled to live there rent free. My question is do you actually think you should?

If yes, she needs to find a different guy. Sorry man, but you should be self sufficient and bring that to the party.


----------



## Livvie

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @corneileous no one is going to say you're entitled to live there rent free. My question is do you actually think you should?
> 
> If yes, she needs to find a different guy. Sorry man, but you should be self sufficient and bring that to the party.


The issue is this woman doesn't want his name on the home, ever. They are getting married. Why should he contribute, in marriage, to the mortgage on a home he will never own? And, that locks him out of EVER IN HIS LIFE owning real property and having equity in real property if the plan is for them to live out their married life there together. He'll be forever a renter with no equity. From his wife!

Sounds like it's her way or the highway. 

I'd take the highway. 

No way would I reside, in marriage, from the age of 46 on contributing to my spouse's home knowing they _deliberately want me to own none of it ever_.


----------



## D0nnivain

LisaDiane said:


> What would be the advice if this was a guy who owned his own house, and his fiance had this guy's problem...?


My advise doesn't change based on the gender of the posters. Fair is fair.


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## Livvie

I own a home. I have close to 200k equity in it. 

But I can't imagine getting married and simultaneously asking my husband to contribute to the mortgage and upkeep and also telling him it's my home and he ain't ever gonna own any of it. 

You can't have it both ways and expect someone to swallow that.


----------



## *Deidre*

This sort of sounds like a backwards pre-nup. Usually, a pre-nup stipulates that whatever assets were brought into the marriage, the spouse wouldn’t receive any of it in the event of a divorce. In this case, she wants the OP to pay for some of those assets but if they divorce, he gets nothing. Lol No one would go for that kind of pre-nup.

I don’t think I’d argue with her OP. Just rent somewhere else and that may startle her to reality, that no self-respecting person is going to tolerate her “conditions.” Or she won’t care at all. Either way, renting somewhere else to me, also keeps you free from over paying her expenses, and other “miscellaneous” things that come up. Putting it another way, she stands to gain financially in you living there because she can “kick you out” at any time and you have no legal recourse. She’s not your landlord, so you’ve signed no lease agreement. You need to start thinking along those lines. Not just about the relationship.


----------



## lifeistooshort

minimalME said:


> He's not demanding anything. 😳
> 
> To me, he's here in order to be balanced and reasonable in his expectations and communication.
> 
> And he's made it very clear that it's not paying that bothers him. You guys keep going off about freeloading, and that's not his issue.


I notice you only quoted part of my post. I was laying out why I don't think he's being fair because he's looking to benefit from what she's already done. He admits he'd have to pay rent elsewhere but this is somehow different, implying that he should be able to either live rent free or get equity in a place he not only didn't buy but couldn't buy now because he doesn't have money for a down payment. So he's looking for her to front the down payment while he still gets equity, or he pays nothing beyond a few living expenses.

I laid out what I think are reasonable options.


----------



## LisaDiane

Livvie said:


> The issue is this woman doesn't want his name on the home, ever. They are getting married. Why should he contribute, in marriage, to the mortgage on a home he will never own? And, that locks him out of EVER IN HIS LIFE owning real property and having equity in real property if the plan is for them to live out their married life there together. He'll be forever a renter with no equity. From his wife!
> 
> Sounds like it's her way or the highway.
> 
> I'd take the highway.
> 
> No way would I reside, in marriage, from the age of 46 on contributing to my spouse's home knowing they _deliberately want me to own none of it ever_.


Yeah, if THIS is the situation, and it's not what the OP wants, then he needs to move on to someone else.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Livvie said:


> I own a home. I have close to 200k equity in it.
> 
> But I can't imagine getting married and simultaneously asking my husband to contribute to the mortgage and upkeep and also telling him it's my home and he ain't ever gonna own any of it.
> 
> You can't have it both ways and expect someone to swallow that.


Why does it have to be either or? Why should you risk all you have for someone that could split the mortgage for a few years and then walk with "his part"? Nobody thinks that will happen but we see it here all the time.

There are equitable ways to both protect her current assets and let him build up something. It would be a sweetheart deal for him anyway because he has no money to get anything on his own.


----------



## bobert

I understand both sides. There has to be some room for compromise though. 

My wife inherited a summer property after we married. She has always been very careful to keep that property from becoming marital property (including not letting me pay for repairs, change things, separate bank accounts to protect the rest of her inheritance, etc), and right now it would probably sell for about $1.6 million. If we divorce that is all hers and I cannot touch it. That used to piss me off but at this point, whatever. It IS hers and it has a lot of meaning to her. She doesn't want to lose that property, and having that asset makes her feel a bit more comfortable if we divorce. It's not like our relationship has ever been a fairytale so it's fair for her to think like that. The same probably goes for someone who has already been divorced and burned before. When you talk to her about it, remember why she is likely so defensive...

We have a second summer property that we bought off my parents with my wife's inheritance (so it became marital money). We could sell and split 50/50 or let a judge decide what's fair (or buy her out) but we put in our postnup that if we divorce, that property is mine. She doesn't want me to lose that property because it has been in the family for several generations and should stay that way. 

Then we have our family home. We bought it with a large down-payment that came from my wife's aunt. Later on we paid off the mortgage with her inheritance. In a divorce she would lose her contribution because it became marital property. However, we put in our postnup that if the property is sold she gets the first $530k, then the rest is split 50/50. So yes, I would walk away with less than her but it was her money that got us this house and has allowed us to live mortgage free with three properties. IMO, it's fair. 

Your GF's house shouldn't be split 50/50 if you marry and divorce, that's not fair at all. You also aren't even married yet so the current arrangement is definitely fair. Long term though, I can see your problem with the current arrangement. 

If she really doesn't want to budge, then save up all the money you are saving with such low "rent" and buy your own property. Then rent it out or live in it, and make darn sure that she cannot touch it. If she complains about that, then she's definitely a "what's mine is mine, what's yours is also mine" gal. 

In the meantime, you really can't complain if you don't have the money to buy your own property and she won't give you hers. You have lived quite cheaply for quite a while (living with mom, living with the fiancée for very low rent), you absolutely should have money saved up. I know the housing market is insane right now, but if you have nothing saved that's a big red flag.


----------



## RebuildingMe

I work with the woman who got remarried to a man who was also divorced. No surprise where I live, but she walked away with the marital home in her divorce and he lost his in his divorce and was living in an apartment when they met.

Anyway, they got married and the Brady Bunch remake was born. Six kids total. They made an agreement that he’d pay half of her mortgage. When he reached milestones, he would “earn” that credit if they divorced. 25k, 50k, 75k and so on. I wasn’t a fan if I was him because he got no ROI from his investment. House prices have nearly doubled, but he’s earning no interest on his money. However, it seems to work for them. Thought I’d share.


----------



## pastasauce79

corneileous said:


> You’re right, it is but that’s not the point. The problem is, I shouldn’t be treated like a live-in tenant who’s helping pay off a house that’ll never be mine nor will I have any share of the equity I’ve put into it.


You don't have to. You are free to live wherever you want to live. She's making it clear she won't share the house with you. And I don't think she'll agree to share the equity either. She won't risk losing anything she owns. And I agree with her. 

My mil has had a live in boyfriend for the past 30 years. He lives in her house and he doesn't own anything. He makes good money but has never had the drive to own anything. He helps with bills and food and whatever the grandkids want or need. We love him to pieces but it's hard to understand why he's made those terrible financial decisions. if my mil dies, the house will go to her kids and I don't know what's going to happen to him. 

Don't be like my FIL. Work towards having something of your own. Don't waste money on Netflix (unless you really have extra money to spend) and save it for a down payment.


----------



## Anastasia6

*Deidre* said:


> This sort of sounds like a backwards pre-nup. Usually, a pre-nup stipulates that whatever assets were brought into the marriage, the spouse wouldn’t receive any of it in the event of a divorce. In this case, she wants the OP to pay for some of those assets but if they divorce, he gets nothing. Lol No one would go for that kind of pre-nup.
> 
> I don’t think I’d argue with her OP. Just rent somewhere else and that may startle her to reality, that no self-respecting person is going to tolerate her “conditions.” Or she won’t care at all. Either way, renting somewhere else to me, also keeps you free from over paying her expenses, and other “miscellaneous” things that come up. Putting it another way, she stands to gain financially in you living there because she can “kick you out” at any time and you have no legal recourse. She’s not your landlord, so you’ve signed no lease agreement. You need to start thinking along those lines. Not just about the relationship.


He's paying $250 / month 'rent' He'd be hard pressed to find that kind of rent anywhere.

So yeah he should move out so he isn't over paying.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Anastasia6 said:


> He's paying $250 / month 'rent' He'd be hard pressed to find that kind of rent anywhere.
> 
> So yeah he should move out so he isn't over paying.


Right? If he's paying less than market rent and doesn't have the money to buy his own place I don't see how this is such a bad deal for him. He should be able to save a lot...probably more then her


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Livvie said:


> The issue is this woman doesn't want his name on the home, ever. They are getting married. Why should he contribute, in marriage, to the mortgage on a home he will never own? And, that locks him out of EVER IN HIS LIFE owning real property and having equity in real property if the plan is for them to live out their married life there together. He'll be forever a renter with no equity. From his wife!
> 
> Sounds like it's her way or the highway.
> 
> I'd take the highway.
> 
> No way would I reside, in marriage, from the age of 46 on contributing to my spouse's home knowing they _deliberately want me to own none of it ever_.


If she never ever wants his name on the house even if he offers to buy half the equity to be fair with her, then that's a no go to me too. Much better to buy my own house so not throwing away rent money, agreed.

And if that means engagement without living together so be it.


----------



## Anastasia6

lifeistooshort said:


> Right? If he's paying less than market rent and doesn't have the money to buy his own place I don't see how this is such a bad deal for him. He should be able to save a lot...probably more then her


Exactly if we were talking a $3000 / month payment then he would be justified in his concerns. And frankly he can be 'justlified' with the $250 but it appears she doesn't want to combine finances on a second marriage with no children. Which is typical. Why should she? If he doesn't want that kind of marriage and she won't budge then yeah move on.

But it seems he can't buy his own place and he's paying below even ****hole rent so what's the problem?

Me and my husbands finances are combined and I wouldn't have a 1st marriage otherwise. But a second? not sure. 

But it simply comes down to both their philosophies. I just don't think this poster would be so willing to combine if it was reversed. He seems hung up on the $12k he's paid for the 4 years they weren't married when he'd have to have paid way more somewhere else. And by trying to recoup that he's saying like the 1st day I moved in I should be getting equity?

Just seems like she is right to be cautious financially.

If OP were a girl we'd hear the term gold digger thrown around.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Anastasia6 said:


> Exactly if we were talking a $3000 / month payment then he would be justified in his concerns. And frankly he can be 'justlified' with the $250 but it appears she doesn't want to combine finances on a second marriage with no children. Which is typical. Why should she? If he doesn't want that kind of marriage and she won't budge then yeah move on.
> 
> But it seems he can't buy his own place and he's paying below even ****hole rent so what's the problem?
> 
> Me and my husbands finances are combined and I wouldn't have a 1st marriage otherwise. But a second? not sure.
> 
> But it simply comes down to both their philosophies. I just don't think this poster would be so willing to combine if it was reversed. He seems hung up on the $12k he's paid for the 4 years they were married when he'd have to have paid way more somewhere else. And by trying to recoup that he's saying like the 1st day I moved in I should be getting equity?
> 
> Just seems like she is right to be cautious financially.
> 
> If OP were a girl we'd hear the term gold digger thrown around.
> 
> a9tm


Oh he's gold digging if he wants instant free equity no doubt.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

lifeistooshort said:


> Right? If he's paying less than market rent and doesn't have the money to buy his own place I don't see how this is such a bad deal for him. He should be able to save a lot...probably more then her


Shoot at only 250.00 month he should jump on that rent no sweat and save majority of his money to very near future buy his own house to be on equal footing and more importantly be building his self sufficiency.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> Yeah, it is bugging me. I just get the feeling that it’s not me personally, it’s just anyone in general she’s not allowing herself to trust. I really don’t know what the deal is. I just feel like I live here as a tenant with benefits with no say in anything and I don’t dare try to talk her into doing something with her house that she don’t want to.


She's just smart about money and not going to let herself get robbed.


----------



## Anastasia6

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Oh he's gold digging if he wants instant free equity no doubt.


Well he's stated he can't come up with a down payment so he certainly couldn't buy his half of the equity.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This is the only way a self sufficient man would do it.
> You should be embarrassed if you want her to give you half the house's value she acquired and she paid for before you two got engaged or she let you move into her house.


Yeah. I'm afraid he's the gold digger in this scenario.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Anastasia6 said:


> Well he's stated he can't come up with a down payment so he certainly couldn't buy his half of the equity.


And that's an answer. In his shoes it would benefit him to pay the measly 250.00 per month rent and save his money so he can continue to grow as an independent person and later buy a house or similar.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Livvie said:


> I own a home. I have close to 200k equity in it.
> 
> But I can't imagine getting married and simultaneously asking my husband to contribute to the mortgage and upkeep and also telling him it's my home and he ain't ever gonna own any of it.
> 
> You can't have it both ways and expect someone to swallow that.


Except the 250.00 rent, that's way low enough to be fair. He'd pay way more than that for an apartment.


----------



## minimalME

@corneileous, I think you should live in your truck and save your money. 🤗


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

minimalME said:


> @corneileous, I think you should live in your truck and save your money. 🤗


That's what I like about your posts.

Gets right to the rat killin'.


----------



## corneileous

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @corneileous no one is going to say you're entitled to live there rent free. My question is do you actually think you should?
> 
> If yes, she needs to find a different guy. Sorry man, but you should be self sufficient and bring that to the party.


And again like I’ve said, I’m not aiming to live there completely free of charge but in your opinion, I should be paying rent? Helping to pay her house off which I’ll never see anything of it? Sure, after we get married and if something ever happens to her I can still live in the house for as long as I want, making her two kids wait to get their inheritance but if I decide to move out of there early and they sell the house, the money that I invested into the house, I may not ever see again that’s what the whole point of this discussion is about.


----------



## minimalME

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's what I like about your posts.
> 
> Gets right to the rat killin'.


What's rat killing? What does it mean? 😬


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

corneileous said:


> And again like I’ve said, I’m not aiming to live there completely free of charge but in your opinion, I should be paying rent? Helping to pay her house off which I’ll never see anything of it? Sure, after we get married and if something ever happens to her I can still live in the house for as long as I want, making her two kids wait to get their inheritance but if I decide to move out of there early and they sell the house, the money that I invested into the house, I may not ever see again that’s what the whole point of this discussion is about.


Yes, here you should. The 250.00 is way, way less than you could rent an apartment even so you're best to pay that amt and 1/2 any utilities while saving your money to buy your own house or investment property.

It's that simple. Your choices are limited granted but this is almost a gift to you so you can save your money, regain your financial footing.


----------



## Married but Happy

Livvie said:


> The problem is she expects him to marry her, live in a house and contribute to the mortgage, and NEVER get to own it! She never wants to own it with him.
> 
> Why even get married? Live together for awhile, and save for your OWN house.
> 
> Did she expect you to never own property? That's what she expects if you marry her.
> 
> No thanks.


I strongly disagree with this. He could offer to pay her half the equity to get on the deed and mortgage and be co-owner. He wants something for nothing. OR, she can sell her house and they can buy another together, with each putting in the same amount for down payment, and both be on the deed and mortgage. She SHOULD put the rest of the equity she has left into a separate account of her own and not comingle those funds so he can't "take" them unfairly, or she COULD comingle the funds and risk him abusing access to the money if she truly trusts him. IMO, trust is developed over time, even AFTER marriage - he hasn't earned it or shown fiscal responsibility, just as he hasn't earned the money.

I owned two houses where my _now_ wife and I lived. She did not contribute to owning them, and they were fully in my name. She'd have gotten them if I died, though. _After_ we married, and _after_ we moved to a new home, she IS now on the deed and mortgage, and we've had enough time to fully trust in each other's honesty and - very important - ability to make wise money decisions. Granted, I did not charge her rent, but she contributed greatly to the relationship in many other ways (she couldn't afford much money, and still can't due to medical issues).

I think OP is a freeloader. If he wants ownership rights, he should buy them, or as you suggest, buy his own property with his own money _before _he gets married.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

minimalME said:


> What's rat killing? What does it mean? 😬


From a John Wayne movie McClintock, where he's arguing with his wife roundaboutly then he tells her ok, let's get right to the rat killing, how about telling me what you're really mad about.


----------



## D0nnivain

corneileous said:


> the money that I invested into the house, I may not ever see again that’s what the whole point of this discussion is about.


That is what you think it's about. What we are telling you is that if you rented you would pay more than $250 per month & not get that back either. So this may not be the hill you want to kill your relationship on.


----------



## LisaDiane

I'm getting more and more suspicious of the OP's attitude and expectations the more I think about it.

I could be wrong, but something isn't adding up to me with him...


----------



## LisaDiane

D0nnivain said:


> My advise doesn't change based on the gender of the posters. Fair is fair.


Are you one of the men of TAM...? For some reason I thought you were a woman...??


----------



## Blondilocks

Why don't you have any money saved? What did you spend it on? Were you working regularly?



corneileous said:


> the money that I invested into the house,


This is where you are off-track. You didn't invest anything. You did not save up for a down payment (and still can not pony up); your name is not on the deed and you may not even qualify for a mortgage.

If you are looking to build equity in a piece of property, you'll need to buy one yourself. Your fiance is rightfully concerned about your financial prowess.


----------



## *Deidre*

Anastasia6 said:


> He's paying $250 / month 'rent' He'd be hard pressed to find that kind of rent anywhere.
> 
> So yeah he should move out so he isn't over paying.


He mentioned he’s paying some miscellaneous costs like for her kid, I think. So she’s okay with that, but not with adding him to the house once they’re married. He would be hard-pressed to find rent that low - but that’s not the issue. The issue is he’s going to marry her and he’s contributing to her mortgage but she doesn’t want to add him to her house deed. The OP understands that he needs to pay his share of living expenses.


----------



## Anastasia6

Blondilocks said:


> Why don't you have any money saved? What did you spend it on? Were you working regularly?
> 
> 
> This is where you are off-track. You didn't invest anything. You did not save up for a down payment (and still can not pony up); your name is not on the deed and you may not even qualify for a mortgage.
> 
> If you are looking to build equity in a piece of property, you'll need to buy one yourself. Your fiance is rightfully concerned about your financial prowess.


Further it doesn't have to be a house. You can use the savings of not paying full rent or your own mortgage and start you own 401k which will build over time. NO down payment or credit needed since it seems you have trouble in at least one of those areas. TDameritrade will allow you to open an account with like $10.

My nephew drives trucks and makes over $60k in a local route and he'd make more on a long route. So where does all your money go that you don't have any savings after living with your mom for a while and then your girlfriend with reasonable expenses?


----------



## EleGirl

@corneileous

What is the current market value of the house?


----------



## Anastasia6

*Deidre* said:


> He mentioned he’s paying some miscellaneous costs like for her kid, I think. So she’s okay with that, but not with adding him to the house once they’re married. He would be hard-pressed to find rent that low - but that’s not the issue. The issue is he’s going to marry her and he’s contributing to her mortgage but she doesn’t want to add him to her house deed. The OP understands that he needs to pay his share of living expenses.


Yes she doesn't want to add him to the house. 1st he'd stated he doesn't have the money for a down payment which would mean he doesn't have the money to pay for his share of the equity. They are both on their second marriage and she wants to protect her assets for herself and her kids. This isn't an uncommon second marriage problem.

So you think he should expect to go on the mortgage (if his credit would even allow the bank to add him) when he hasn't paid 50%? 

OP how long has she owned this house? with a $500 /monthly payment I'm thinking it's been a while, or she had a good down payment herself. Meaning she has way more invested in this house. And do you think you should recover $12 k that you put in? When you moved in did you state to her you intended to recoup your rent? Did she agree?

You see you are expecting something that has never been offered or agreed to on a house that isn't yours. 

It appears that you two have a very large hurdle here with different financial philosophies. I don't recommend anyone marry until the details are worked out. It appears you are at a stalemate she will not agree to your idea of fair and you don't think you should have to pay for something you aren't getting equity in. Seems like that is not going to change. I recommend you split now before you put more money in. Go back to your mom's and save your money up.


----------



## Blondilocks

He doesn't have to marry. He can continue to live there and pay ridiculously low rent while saving up funds. Or, he could move back with mommy and save even more money. If he continues to live there, I hope he doesn't acquiesce to being her resident handy man (screw that). 

He hasn't said who is champing at the bit to tie the knot.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> And again like I’ve said, I’m not aiming to live there completely free of charge but in your opinion, I should be paying rent? Helping to pay her house off which I’ll never see anything of it? Sure, after we get married and if something ever happens to her I can still live in the house for as long as I want, making her two kids wait to get their inheritance but if I decide to move out of there early and they sell the house, the money that I invested into the house, I may not ever see again that’s what the whole point of this discussion is about.


It's her house. Until and unless you get it together to buy your own house with your own credit and down payment and make the payments yourself, you're never going to own equity in a home. It's not rocket science. You can't do that but you expect her to give that to you. I really hope she's not stupid enough to do that. Meanwhile, you will be paying much higher for a place to stay. You are not a good investment, my friend.


----------



## Livvie

He's not expecting to get her previous equity.

He's not interested in spending the rest of his life contributing to a house that will never be his in any way, though. 

The fact that it's his future wife who isn't interested in building anything with him in the next decades and wants to be his forever landlord is what sucks.


----------



## *Deidre*

I think I’m understanding the gist of what others are saying in opposition to the OP - basically, if the OP’s fiancée put a large down payment down (it doesn’t even have to be large), he is reaping the benefits but doesn’t have much invested.

But, when you marry, there’s an understanding that you start sharing assets etc unless there’s a pre-nup. I’m not against pre-nups, but this is sort of a hazy situation, where nothing is in writing.

I see both sides, now.


----------



## LisaDiane

LisaDiane said:


> Are you one of the men of TAM...? For some reason I thought you were a woman...??


@DownByTheRiver, why the "sad" emoji? I'm not being snarky or anything, I was really asking because I'm confused...


----------



## corneileous

Anastasia6 said:


> Exactly if we were talking a $3000 / month payment then he would be justified in his concerns. And frankly he can be 'justlified' with the $250 but it appears she doesn't want to combine finances on a second marriage with no children. Which is typical. Why should she? If he doesn't want that kind of marriage and she won't budge then yeah move on.
> 
> But it seems he can't buy his own place and he's paying below even ****hole rent so what's the problem?
> 
> Me and my husbands finances are combined and I wouldn't have a 1st marriage otherwise. But a second? not sure.
> 
> But it simply comes down to both their philosophies. I just don't think this poster would be so willing to combine if it was reversed. He seems hung up on the $12k he's paid for the 4 years they weren't married when he'd have to have paid way more somewhere else. And by trying to recoup that he's saying like the 1st day I moved in I should be getting equity?
> 
> Just seems like she is right to be cautious financially.
> 
> If OP were a girl we'd hear the term gold digger thrown around.


I’m not so sure I fully understand whose side of this is that you’re on but what difference does the amount of the house payment have to do anything when you said that you could understand if it was $3000 a month opposed to 250 a month? But what are you talking about this first and second marriage stuff?

And why do you automatically assume that if the roles were reversed that you don’t think I would be willing to do the same for her because if she’s helping me pay for half the house payment, then you’re damn right I would consider what she’s paid in over the course of time. I would be willing to re refinance in both our names or go buy a new house together at least and she would have the option to keep the one that she has right now and rent it out to somebody else and make some profit on it but at least in that situation, I wouldn’t be living in that house that I’ve pretty much been paying into that I won’t ever see anything out of.

And of course I’m a little hung up on the 12,000 or so whatever it is that I’ve paid in and if I continue to stay there, the probably close to half of what her house is or what she owes on her house which she only bought it for about $55,000. Put yourself in my shoes; would you be willing to pay rent like that into a house that you’re never gonna see anything from? Sure, it’s only $250 per month but overtime, that adds up. That is money that I helped her to pay her house off that I will never see anything out of. It’s just like I said, here honey, I’ll just help you but your house just for grins and giggles and you get to keep entirely what the house is worth if you ever sell it


----------



## Anastasia6

corneileous said:


> I’m not so sure I fully understand whose side of this is that you’re on but what difference does the amount of the house payment have to do anything when you said that you could understand if it was $3000 a month opposed to 250 a month? But what are you talking about this first and second marriage stuff?
> 
> And why do you automatically assume that if the roles were reversed that you don’t think I would be willing to do the same for her because if she’s helping me pay for half the house payment, then you’re damn right I would consider what she’s paid in over the course of time. I would be willing to re refinance in both our names or go buy a new house together at least and she would have the option to keep the one that she has right now and rent it out to somebody else and make some profit on it but at least in that situation, I wouldn’t be living in that house that I’ve pretty much been paying into that I won’t ever see anything out of.
> 
> And of course I’m a little hung up on the 12,000 or so whatever it is that I’ve paid in and if I continue to stay there, the probably close to half of what her house is or what she owes on her house which she only bought it for about $55,000. Put yourself in my shoes; would you be willing to pay rent like that into a house that you’re never gonna see anything from? Sure, it’s only $250 per month but overtime, that adds up. That is money that I helped her to pay her house off that I will never see anything out of. It’s just like I said, here honey, I’ll just help you but your house just for grins and giggles and you get to keep entirely what the house is worth if you ever sell it


Ok so second marriage does matter as that means she has assets and children from a first marriage. It isn't like you are 20 years old and both starting out in life.

Secondly she may have bought it for $55k but what is it worth?

third the amount of rent matters cause if she was having you kick in $3000 a month then she is taking advantage of you. If you are paying $250 a month you couldn't find better rent and bet that $250 come with some cooking and laundry (or do you do all the household chores)? She isn't taking advantage of you and is realistically considering a future when you two aren't married. At the age and stage in life you both are it isn't a wierd or uncommon thing to do. 

As I said you two simply have fundamental differences in how you think the finances should work. I have nothing against combined finances in marriage. What I do think though is people with wildly different financial ideas, sexual ideas, family, or religous ideas need to work out the kinks before getting married and if there isn't common ground to be found don't get married.

You've had this conversation with her many times and she has made it clear she doesn't think like you on this topic. So quit now and go someplace else. This will allow you to save your own money which is important to you. There are plenty of women who will husband you up with shared finances.


----------



## corneileous

lifeistooshort said:


> I notice you only quoted part of my post. I was laying out why I don't think he's being fair because he's looking to benefit from what she's already done. He admits he'd have to pay rent elsewhere but this is somehow different, implying that he should be able to either live rent free or get equity in a place he not only didn't buy but couldn't buy now because he doesn't have money for a down payment. So he's looking for her to front the down payment while he still gets equity, or he pays nothing beyond a few living expenses.
> 
> I laid out what I think are reasonable options.


And I’ve already laid it out that I’m not looking to be a freeloader like some of you are assuming that I am but why don’t you think it’s fair that I should get something out of this because for like the umpteenth time already, I am helping to pay her house off. This is not or shouldn’t be considered a rental thing; this is a marriage and this is usually what most people do is they completely split the expenses. Sure, she has her car that I don’t help her pay on because it’s her car and I’ve got my pickup that I pay on that she doesn’t drive so we don’t split those payments but you assume that the house needs to be treated the same way that in the end when it’s all said and done and over with that I’ll probably end up paying pretty close to half of her house for her but I’ll not never have anything to show for it? 

Like I said, I’m going to try to talk to her either today or this weekend about it and try to be as simple as I can to at least see if she will consider refinancing the house and even if I have to take a small loan out to put towards it so that we both owe the same amount. It’s just that with her extreme opposition to this keeps telling me that no matter what I say, she doesn’t want my name on the house because she’s too afraid of having to start over if something ever happens and it’s like, if we had bought a house together and something happens, we’re gonna have to do go through the process of dividing but it’s just that I get the feeling that because of what the current situation is, she’d rather take advantage of what the easier situation is and just be able to kick me out and then her not have to start over if something ever happened.


----------



## lifeistooshort

corneileous said:


> I’m not so sure I fully understand whose side of this is that you’re on but what difference does the amount of the house payment have to do anything when you said that you could understand if it was $3000 a month opposed to 250 a month? But what are you talking about this first and second marriage stuff?
> 
> And why do you automatically assume that if the roles were reversed that you don’t think I would be willing to do the same for her because if she’s helping me pay for half the house payment, then you’re damn right I would consider what she’s paid in over the course of time. I would be willing to re refinance in both our names or go buy a new house together at least and she would have the option to keep the one that she has right now and rent it out to somebody else and make some profit on it but at least in that situation, I wouldn’t be living in that house that I’ve pretty much been paying into that I won’t ever see anything out of.
> 
> And of course I’m a little hung up on the 12,000 or so whatever it is that I’ve paid in and if I continue to stay there, the probably close to half of what her house is or what she owes on her house which she only bought it for about $55,000. Put yourself in my shoes; would you be willing to pay rent like that into a house that you’re never gonna see anything from? Sure, it’s only $250 per month but overtime, that adds up. That is money that I helped her to pay her house off that I will never see anything out of. It’s just like I said, here honey, I’ll just help you but your house just for grins and giggles and you get to keep entirely what the house is worth if you ever sell it


If you think it's such a terrible deal you are free to move out and pay a landlord.

I'm guessing that's unappealing.

IME the one who's benefitting the most always makes comments like "I'd do it for you".

You're attempting to treat this as a business deal but only where it benefits you. If it's a business deal then $250/mo absolutely matters. It's a heck of a deal. Why is it a deal for her to refinance the house and give you half thw current equity?


----------



## Anastasia6

Oh and let's be clear about 'fair' you expect $12k back so far..... But that $500 isn't all equity.

It's interest, property tax, house insurance, mortgage insurance and such.
Not anywhere near the 12k went to equity.


----------



## corneileous

minimalME said:


> @corneileous, I think you should live in your truck and save your money. 🤗


Damn I don’t know why this post got so many likes but are you being serious here? Because if you’re trying to label me as a cheapskate, that is extremely wrong because if I end up having to walk away from this, I would probably only go back to staying with my mom until I could find my own place and then I would go there because in that situation, I would be renting a house that I know upfront I’m not gonna get anything back in return unless it’s my security deposit which is not the same thing as what I’m talking about right now. is that too hard to understand?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh and let's be clear about 'fair' you expect $12k back so far..... But that $500 isn't all equity.
> 
> It's interest, property tax, house insurance, mortgage insurance and such.
> Not anywhere near the 12k went to equity.


Yep....more inconvenient business parameters that don't benefit him and are thus excluded.


----------



## lifeistooshort

corneileous said:


> Damn I don’t know why this post got so many likes but are you being serious here? Because if you’re trying to label me as a cheapskate, that is extremely wrong because if I end up having to walk away from this, I would probably only go back to staying with my mom until I could find my own place and then I would go there because in that situation, I would be renting a house that I know upfront I’m not gonna get anything back in return unless it’s my security deposit which is not the same thing as what I’m talking about right now. is that too hard to understand?


What's so hard to understand about the fact that you've been paying next to nothing in rent and yet still somehow have no money? And that you wamt to do business but only as it suits you?

You're a poor deal. Dump your gf and see if you can do better....let us know how that works out.


----------



## Anastasia6

corneileous said:


> Damn I don’t know why this post got so many likes but are you being serious here? Because if you’re trying to label me as a cheapskate, that is extremely wrong because if I end up having to walk away from this, I would probably only go back to staying with my mom until I could find my own place and then I would go there because in that situation, I would be renting a house that I know upfront I’m not gonna get anything back in return unless it’s my security deposit which is not the same thing as what I’m talking about right now. is that too hard to understand?


So you are saying when you moved in you didn't understand you weren't getting part of her house?

No what you are saying is that you moved in paying rent and at some time you got to thinking about how she bought a house and is building equity. You want the same thing. You believe by marrying her you'd get that and she disagreed so now it is an issue.

And yes you are right she wants it so that if it doesn't work out she keeps the house and you leave. Why wouldn't she keep the house she bought before you? Why can't you save on your own? You never answered how if you drive trucks you have no savings.

Did you give your mom anything when you lived with her?


----------



## Openminded

And if she says absolutely not, then what? Are you ready to end it?


----------



## minimalME

corneileous said:


> Like I said, I’m going to try to talk to her either today or this weekend about it and try to be as simple as I can to at least see if she will consider refinancing the house and even if I have to take a small loan out to put towards it so that we both owe the same amount. It’s just that with her extreme opposition to this keeps telling me that no matter what I say, she doesn’t want my name on the house because she’s too afraid of having to start over if something ever happens and it’s like, if we had bought a house together and something happens, we’re gonna have to do go through the process of dividing but it’s just that I get the feeling that because of what the current situation is, she’d rather take advantage of what the easier situation is and just be able to kick me out and then her not have to start over if something ever happened.


An option is to keep her house and rent it out, and then the two of you could buy a different house together. Then, if you don't work out, she still has her house.



corneileous said:


> Damn I don’t know why this post got so many likes but are you being serious here? Because if you’re trying to label me as a cheapskate, that is extremely wrong because if I end up having to walk away from this, I would probably only go back to staying with my mom until I could find my own place and then I would go there because in that situation, I would be renting a house that I know upfront I’m not gonna get anything back in return unless it’s my security deposit which is not the same thing as what I’m talking about right now. is that too hard to understand?


It was just a suggestion - and it was genuine and totally doable. It's not about being cheap at all. There are many youtube videos about people living in their 18 wheelers. 🙂


----------



## *Deidre*

minimalME said:


> An option is to keep her house and rent it out, and then the two of you could buy a different house together. Then, if you don't work out, she still has her house.
> 
> 
> 
> It was just a suggestion - and it was genuine and totally doable. It's not about being cheap at all. There are many youtube videos about people living in their 18 wheelers. 🙂


I follow some of those vloggers “living in their vans,” and some days, envy the simplicity of it all. 😌


----------



## corneileous

Blondilocks said:


> Why don't you have any money saved? What did you spend it on? Were you working regularly?
> 
> 
> This is where you are off-track. You didn't invest anything. You did not save up for a down payment (and still can not pony up); your name is not on the deed and you may not even qualify for a mortgage.
> 
> If you are looking to build equity in a piece of property, you'll need to buy one yourself. Your fiance is rightfully concerned about your financial prowess.


I’ve got money saved up. Probably not enough to put as a down payment on a house but I do have money saved up and I have worked regularly since my last marriage up until right now so why are you asking such a question? And how can you say I haven’t invested in anything when I’m clearly paying half of her house payment along with my half of the utilities? I mean sure, unless my name is on her house I won’t get anything in return but that’s just because that’s how she wants it. She wants me to pay half of something that is going to always be hers. And I highly doubt that whatever my financial prowess is that you said is what’s making her do this. I’ve already told the discussion that this is her way of not having to start over if something ever happens between us because of what she had to do in her last marriage where her ex-husband had to take out a loan to pay her her half of house but she was the one who had to move out and start over. As I said, I understand her concern but where that stops is when you get married to somebody you normally do things together as a team. This is not as a team, this is expecting me to help her pay her house off when I won’t see anything from it except for the simple fact if something was to ever happen to her, I wouldn’t have to up and leave as soon as possible so that her kids could sell the house and split the money so are you saying because of that, I should just be OK with ending up putting probably a total of almost $20,000 in her house just to have that luxury he having all the time I want to find a new place?


----------



## minimalME

corneileous said:


> ...when I’m clearly paying half of her house payment along with my half of the utilities?


So the house payment is $500 a month, and you pay half? 

And you said you've spent $12,000? So, you've been doing this for 4 years?


----------



## corneileous

lifeistooshort said:


> If you think it's such a terrible deal you are free to move out and pay a landlord.
> 
> I'm guessing that's unappealing.
> 
> IME the one who's benefitting the most always makes comments like "I'd do it for you".
> 
> You're attempting to treat this as a business deal but only where it benefits you. If it's a business deal then $250/mo absolutely matters. It's a heck of a deal. Why is it a deal for her to refinance the house and give you half thw current equity?


I know I’m free to leave, she’s even told me that several times which really makes me question how much she really wants me around but in all honesty, I really don’t wanna leave because I love her a lot. And no, I’m not trying to treat this as a business deal, I’m just asking for thoughts and opinions if I should feel this way about being OK with helping her essentially pay her house off with not having anything in return. I realize that in a lot of cases rent somewhere else would be a lot more expensive but how would you feel if you were in my shoes? If you met someone that already had their own house they were making payments on and wanted you to have to include paying for half of their house but never getting anything in return? In all honesty, I’m really glad the house was only about 55,000 and the payments only 500 a month and yes, I realize I could be paying a lot more than that in rent somewhere else but that’s just it; that’s not the case but I’m being treated as such.


----------



## corneileous

Anastasia6 said:


> Oh and let's be clear about 'fair' you expect $12k back so far..... But that $500 isn't all equity.
> 
> It's interest, property tax, house insurance, mortgage insurance and such.
> Not anywhere near the 12k went to equity.


I know it’s not an even though I didn’t actually type the words but whatever the number is, it’s still money that I’m paying her that’s going towards the note on her house.


----------



## minimalME

corneileous said:


> I know I’m free to leave, *she’s even told me that several times* which really makes me question how much she really wants me around but in all honesty, I really don’t wanna leave because I love her a lot.


😳


----------



## corneileous

lifeistooshort said:


> What's so hard to understand about the fact that you've been paying next to nothing in rent and yet still somehow have no money? And that you wamt to do business but only as it suits you?
> 
> You're a poor deal. Dump your gf and see if you can do better....let us know how that works out.


Lol, because it’s the mere fact of my fiancé; the woman I love that I live with and plan to spend the rest of my life with is charging me rent basically. And I never said I have no money… Lol. But if you don’t wanna listen to what I’ve been saying all along and wanna call me a poor deal then go right ahead. I still don’t think you fully and completely understand what’s going on here.


----------



## Openminded

$12,000 and not yet married but you want credit for that? I’d say that amount is rent.


----------



## lifeistooshort

corneileous said:


> I know I’m free to leave, she’s even told me that several times which really makes me question how much she really wants me around but in all honesty, I really don’t wanna leave because I love her a lot. And no, I’m not trying to treat this as a business deal, I’m just asking for thoughts and opinions if I should feel this way about being OK with helping her essentially pay her house off with not having anything in return. I realize that in a lot of cases rent somewhere else would be a lot more expensive but how would you feel if you were in my shoes? If you met someone that already had their own house they were making payments on and wanted you to have to include paying for half of their house but never getting anything in return? In all honesty, I’m really glad the house was only about 55,000 and the payments only 500 a month and yes, I realize I could be paying a lot more than that in rent somewhere else but that’s just it; that’s not the case but I’m being treated as such.


In one of my earlier posts I made a few suggestions of how this could be done equitably. Have you offered to buy some of her equity so that this is a fair business deal?

Or offered to set something up in writing where she keeps her current equity but you start accumulating together going forward?

If she refinanced how much equity are you prepared to put up? The feeling many of us are getting is that you want in on the current equity which is not reasonable. Please correct this if its in error.

I'm close to your age (48) and we both know that love is important but the business aspect has to be fair.


----------



## lifeistooshort

corneileous said:


> Lol, because it’s the mere fact of my fiancé; the woman I love that I live with and plan to spend the rest of my life with is charging me rent basically. And I never said I have no money… Lol. But if you don’t wanna listen to what I’ve been saying all along and wanna call me a poor deal then go right ahead. I still don’t think you fully and completely understand what’s going on here.


I absolutely do. You just don't like the answer.
LOL


----------



## lifeistooshort

corneileous said:


> I know it’s not an even though I didn’t actually type the words but whatever the number is, it’s still money that I’m paying her that’s going towards the note on her house.


Have you done any calculations to see exactly how much of the payment is going towards the note as opposed to the interest?

What about taxes and insurance? Shouldn't you be contributing there too if you want in? The note isn't the only house expense.


----------



## *Deidre*

Where were you living before you moved in with her, OP? You may have shared that but just wondering.


----------



## bobert

*Deidre* said:


> Where were you living before you moved in with her, OP? You may have shared that but just wondering.


With his mom, rent free.


----------



## Anastasia6

*Deidre* said:


> Where were you living before you moved in with her, OP? You may have shared that but just wondering.


pretty sure the answer is his moms. But he hasn't answered if he gave his mom any money while living there.


----------



## *Deidre*

Thank you both ^

Now, I’m not sure what advice to give lol

I can see where her skepticism comes in because she wants to protect her investment she’s worked hard for but also see OP’s feelings are hurt in that it seems like there is a trust issue there. Maybe not just with money.

Good luck OP - I think you should get your own place. Maybe she needs to see that you can manage finances on your own before she agrees to co-own her house with you?

This is one of the more difficult questions I’ve seen on TAM.☺


----------



## Rob_1

All I can tell you is if you were to be having this discussion with a family lawyer he would laugh at your demands.

No one, and I mean not one lawyer would advice her to abide by what you want. Sorry pal, you're way out of the left field here.

This is what happens with second marriages, when bringing in properties and children are at stake. She's damned right to keep what's hers, hers.

All you see is paying half of her mortgage. Go out and rent abd you'll be paying at least twice as much of her mortgage with nothing to account for when the lease expires.

You have it made, you just don't realize it from an economic point of view of renting. Whatever you go you'll have to pay somebody, and nothing to show for.

My advice, go back to live with your mother. Save the money, someday you'll be able to get your own property. Then, you'll be able to do as you wish with whomever you partner with when she comes to live to your house.


----------



## bobert

Anastasia6 said:


> pretty sure the answer is his moms. But he hasn't answered if he gave his mom any money while living there.


He said he contributed to utilities but didn't say anything about rent, so I assume no rent was paid.


----------



## corneileous

Anastasia6 said:


> So you are saying when you moved in you didn't understand you weren't getting part of her house?


Pretty much but I guess I just never really paid that much attention to it that part of what I was paying her every month was going towards her house.



Anastasia6 said:


> No what you are saying is that you moved in paying rent and at some time you got to thinking about how she bought a house and is building equity. You want the same thing. You believe by marrying her you'd get that and she disagreed so now it is an issue.


if I’m understanding you correctly then I suppose yes because like I said above, I guess I just really didn’t pay attention to the fact that part of what I was paying her was to go towards her house so I never worried about it but you know, I am open to other ways to do this whether it’s matching what she’s already paid on the house now or starting fresh and buying another house and keeping that one as a rental house but see, as I keep saying, I don’t think she’s interested in that because I’m really starting to think it all boils down to trust issues to where she’s too worried about wondering if we’ll be together forever and if we’re not then she doesn’t have to pack up and leave and start over again.



Anastasia6 said:


> And yes you are right she wants it so that if it doesn't work out she keeps the house and you leave.


as I said above, yes. And I don’t have a problem with that because if that ever happens, at least I have somewhere to go to get back on my feet when he doesn’t; but, now we’re back to the same old problem where I’m helping to pay her house off and never gonna see a dime out of it.



Anastasia6 said:


> Why wouldn't she keep the house she bought before you?


I never said she wouldn’t have to.



Anastasia6 said:


> Why can't you save on your own?


I never said I couldn’t save on my own. As a matter fact I’ve stated several times that I am. Now, before I met her and was staying with my mom for as long as I did I could’ve saved a lot more but that’s neither here nor there because at that point I really wasn’t expecting to find anybody else anymore so I didn’t really put a whole lotta effort into it.



Anastasia6 said:


> You never answered how if you drive trucks you have no savings.


not only did I re-explain above, I’ve said it somewhere else before in this thread.



Anastasia6 said:


> Did you give your mom anything when you lived with her?


Lol, I did. But, that house that my mom is living in has long been paid for by my grandparents so I wasn’t asked to help make payments on a house that at least won’t be partially mine until my mom passes on.


----------



## corneileous

Openminded said:


> And if she says absolutely not, then what? Are you ready to end it?


I hope it doesn’t come to that but what would you do? Would you be OK with paying half your spouses house off and never seeing a dime out of it?


----------



## corneileous

minimalME said:


> So the house payment is $500 a month, and you pay half?
> 
> And you said you've spent $12,000? So, you've been doing this for 4 years?


Yes and yes. I realize that there’s interest and all that stuff involved but still, in a total of four years time, that’s about how much I will have helped her out on her house.


----------



## corneileous

Openminded said:


> $12,000 and not yet married but you want credit for that? I’d say that amount is rent.


Well, I guess you’re right. I guess you’re saying that’s how it’s supposed to be?


----------



## Openminded

corneileous said:


> I hope it doesn’t come to that but what would you do? Would you be OK with paying half your spouses house off and never seeing a dime out of it?


Who’s to say what I would do if it was a real situation and not a hypothetical — my life experience has been much different than yours. But you _aren’t_ married at this point and yet you expect every dime you’ve given her so far to count toward equity in her house? Doesn’t seem realistic to me. Right now you have zero rights as far as her house goes, since you aren’t married, and you may never have more even if she does marry you because that’s not what she wants. In second marriages, it’s not uncommon to keep assets separated. Use that to your advantage. Pay the $250 a month, save all you can and then buy your own house and rent it out (keeping the income).


----------



## Openminded

corneileous said:


> Well, I guess you’re right. I guess you’re saying that’s how it’s supposed to be?


Yes.

You want credit for something you’re not entitled to.


----------



## corneileous

> bobert said:
> 
> 
> 
> With his mom, rent free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anastasia6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> pretty sure the answer is his moms. But he hasn't answered if he gave his mom any money while living there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Deidre* said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you both ^
> 
> Now, I’m not sure what advice to give lol
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Being that I’ve got other stuff going on right now and you guys guys never gave me a chance to answer that question but yes, when I was living with my mom, I was paying for half the utilities. It’s just that in that case, the house my mom lives in has long since been paid for by my grandparents so there was no half of the house payment in the form of rent.



> I can see where her skepticism comes in because she wants to protect her investment she’s worked hard for but also see OP’s feelings are hurt in that it seems like there is a trust issue there. Maybe not just with money.
> 
> Good luck OP - I think you should get your own place. Maybe she needs to see that you can manage finances on your own before she agrees to co-own her house with you?
> 
> This is one of the more difficult questions I’ve seen on TAM.☺


I have no problem with her wanting to protect her investment. Like I’ve told her and like I’ve told you guys, I’m not looking to take anything away from her. I don’t play that game. And she does know that I know how to manage my finances, I just think what this all boils down to is it’s not just me, it’s any man that she would be with that she’s not willing to do this for and when I said basically why should I help you pay your house she got upset at that and said that it was my cost of living there. I thought my cost of living there was the increased water bill, electric bill, and all that other stuff because whether I live there or not, that house is her responsibility that she’s gonna have to pay for, you see what I mean? I haven’t had a chance to have a lot more of a civil conversation with her on this so I can’t answer everybody’s questions about what she would say if I ask her about putting forth what she’s paid into it to match it or to buy another house and rent that one out and until I do I will update the thread on what her reaction is but as of right now, this is just completely about her expecting me to help pay her house off when she calls it the cost of living there on top of paying for my house of the increased utility bills and the groceries.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> Being that I’ve got other stuff going on right now and you guys guys never gave me a chance to answer that question but yes, when I was living with my mom, I was paying for half the utilities. It’s just that in that case, the house my mom lives in has long since been paid for by my grandparents so there was no half of the house payment in the form of rent.
> 
> 
> I have no problem with her wanting to protect her investment. Like I’ve told her and like I’ve told you guys, I’m not looking to take anything away from her. I don’t play that game. And she does know that I know how to manage my finances, I just think what this all boils down to is it’s not just me, it’s any man that she would be with that she’s not willing to do this for and when I said basically why should I help you pay your house she got upset at that and said that it was my cost of living there. I thought my cost of living there was the increased water bill, electric bill, and all that other stuff because whether I live there or not, that house is her responsibility that she’s gonna have to pay for, you see what I mean? I haven’t had a chance to have a lot more of a civil conversation with her on this so I can’t answer everybody’s questions about what she would say if I ask her about putting forth what she’s paid into it to match it or to buy another house and rent that one out and until I do I will update the thread on what her reaction is but as of right now, this is just completely about her expecting me to help pay her house off when she calls it the cost of living there on top of paying for my house of the increased utility bills and the groceries.


She's just expecting anyone to live there to not take a free ride, which is what you're trying to do. She has a right to ask you to pay rent. You have a right to not live with her if you think you can do that cheaper.


----------



## corneileous

Openminded said:


> Who’s to say what I would do if it was a real situation and not a hypothetical — my life experience has been much different than yours. But you _aren’t_ married at this point and yet you expect every dime you’ve given her so far to count toward equity in her house? Doesn’t seem realistic to me. Right now you have zero rights as far as her house goes, since you aren’t married, and you may never have more even if she does marry you because that’s not what she wants. In second marriages, it’s not uncommon to keep assets separated. Use that to your advantage. Pay the $250 a month, save all you can and then buy your own house and rent it out (keeping the income).


OK, I can kind of see where you’re coming from. You’re hung up on the fact that because we’re not currently married that I shouldn’t be entitled to anything which I’ve never said I was expected to be entitled everything because number one, I’m still paying for half of her house payment but see here’s the deal; even after we get married, she still expects us to stay exactly the same as it is right now where I will continue to pay half of her house payment but still won’t ever see anything out of it because she refuses to put my name on the title. Please tell me it’s starting to make a little bit of sense now? Maybe I am in the wrong for seeing this like this before we tie the knot but either way, I still just can’t get over the fact that I’m having to pay for half of her house payment in the form of rent when what I’ve tried to say all along is I would never do that to her. If I was her and this was the other way around, her half would only be half for utilities and half of everything else because if I still had intentions of my house remaining my house, I would not expect her to pay a dime on my house because I guess in my mind that’s what would be right.


----------



## corneileous

Rob_1 said:


> All I can tell you is if you were to be having this discussion with a family lawyer he would laugh at your demands.
> 
> No one, and I mean not one lawyer would advice her to abide by what you want. Sorry pal, you're way out of the left field here.
> 
> This is what happens with second marriages, when bringing in properties and children are at stake. She's damned right to keep what's hers, hers.
> 
> All you see is paying half of her mortgage. Go out and rent abd you'll be paying at least twice as much of her mortgage with nothing to account for when the lease expires.
> 
> You have it made, you just don't realize it from an economic point of view of renting. Whatever you go you'll have to pay somebody, and nothing to show for.
> 
> My advice, go back to live with your mother. Save the money, someday you'll be able to get your own property. Then, you'll be able to do as you wish with whomever you partner with when she comes to live to your house.


So, even before and even after we get married, you think she’s in the right by expecting me to pay half her house payment along with my half of the other expenses in the household?….hmm.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> OK, I can kind of see where you’re coming from. You’re hung up on the fact that because we’re not currently married that I shouldn’t be entitled to anything which I’ve never said I was expected to be entitled everything because number one, I’m still paying for half of her house payment but see here’s the deal; even after we get married, she still expects us to stay exactly the same as it is right now where I will continue to pay half of her house payment but still won’t ever see anything out of it because she refuses to put my name on the title. Please tell me it’s starting to make a little bit of sense now? Maybe I am in the wrong for seeing this like this before we tie the knot but either way, I still just can’t get over the fact that I’m having to pay for half of her house payment in the form of rent when what I’ve tried to say all along is I would never do that to her. If I was her and this was the other way around, her half would only be half for utilities and half of everything else because if I still had intentions of my house remaining my house, I would not expect her to pay a dime on my house because I guess in my mind that’s what would be right.


You aren't entitled to that house even if you WERE married. It's hers. She bought it before marriage. Even if she married you, it's still hers.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

corneileous said:


> So, even before and even after we get married, you think she’s in the right by expecting me to pay half her house payment along with my half of the other expenses in the household?….hmm.


Do you really think it's right for you to 

1. Live housing rent free
2. Have your name added to the mortgage and thus be entitled to half the equity?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

corneileous said:


> So, even before and even after we get married, you think she’s in the right by expecting me to pay half her house payment along with my half of the other expenses in the household?….hmm.


Yes.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> So, even before and even after we get married, you think she’s in the right by expecting me to pay half her house payment along with my half of the other expenses in the household?….hmm.


She's have to be a dumb cluck not to!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

corneileous said:


> So, even before and even after we get married, you think she’s in the right by expecting me to pay half her house payment along with my half of the other expenses in the household?….hmm.


The fact you even asked this question is enough for her to not move forward. Have you ever been self sufficient?


----------



## Openminded

And you’re hung up on the fact that you think you should have equity in her house and you aren’t married yet. Think of it as the price you have had to pay for living there for several years. You were fortunate, when you lived with your mom, to have minimal cash outlay that few people experience in their 40’s but that obviously changed when you moved in with her. She expected you to pay a reasonable amount for housing and utilities. That was fair. What happens if she marries you is another story.


----------



## EleGirl

@corneileous

Important question here?

Is she asking for a pre-nup that specifies that the house is her separate property and that any marital income/assets used to pay the mortgage and/or do maintenance on the property does not constitute mingling her private asset with marital assets?


----------



## minimalME

@corneileous, how did the two of you start all this? What was said at the beginning?


corneileous said:


> Maybe I am in the wrong for seeing this like this before we tie the knot but either way,* I still just can’t get over the fact that I’m having to pay for half of her house payment in the form of rent* when what I’ve tried to say all along is I would never do that to her.


But you've been doing this for four years.

Your choices are to stay, and let it go, or move out.

Personally, I don't see this going well for the two of you.

She doesn't want to share property with you. She's told you you're free to leave.

From a distance, it seems dysfunctional. 😔


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

EleGirl said:


> @corneileous
> 
> Important question here?
> 
> Is she asking for a pre-nup that specifies that the house is her separate property and that any marital income/assets used to pay the mortgage and/or do maintenance on the property does not constitute mingling her private asset with marital assets?


She should.


----------



## LisaDiane

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> She should.


That is what the men who have more assets than their partners are advised to do - protect them, keep them separate so she can't touch them.


----------



## Rob_1

corneileous said:


> So, even before and even after we get married, you think she’s in the right by expecting me to pay half her house payment along with my half of the other expenses in the household?….hmm.


Which obviously, all together would be much less than you renting, wouldn't it be?

Moreover, the amount of her monthly mortgage, has nothing to do with what you're paying for rent. She could be paying $0.00 dollars, and still she can charge you what she wants. Is up to you whether to accept it or not. Once again, you're still paying less than what renting would cost you.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Rob_1 said:


> Which obviously, all together would be much less than you renting, wouldn't it be?
> 
> Moreover, the amount of her monthly mortgage, has nothing to do with what you're paying for rent. She could be paying $0.00 dollars, and still she can charge you what she wants. Is up to you whether to accept it or not. Once again, you're still paying less than what renting would cost you.


For some reason it appears like OP believes he is entitled to live rent free. That boggles the mind.


----------



## minimalME

LisaDiane said:


> That is what the men who have more assets than their partners are advised to do - protect them, keep them separate so she can't touch them.


And I understand that. I really do.

When I go to bed at night, I know what's in my bank accounts, and I know approximately 😅 what's in my investment accounts. 

It's a relief not to have to worry about anyone else's decisions. That's one of the many reasons I'm content single.


----------



## corneileous

Well, without reading any more of the replies since this is a pretty hot topic, I guess it’s all good now because I just got off the phone with her and for the most part it was civil. There was a couple times it got a little heated but even after we do get married, I guess this is just how it’s supposed to be because she told me that even in her last marriage before they bought the house they had together before they got divorced, she moved in with him and she paid half of his house payment so I guess that’s just how it supposed to be because what she’s worried about and the reason why she doesn’t want to have my name on her house even after marriage is because being that nothing is certain, if anything was ever to happen between us, she doesn’t want to have to hire a lawyer to get my name off her house and pay me half of it, and then have to start all over again which, that part I can understand but I told her what I don’t understand is the fact that for you to have that security, this comes at my expense because if I stay with you long enough, your house will be paid for and I will have paid close to half of it for you but if something happens and I have to walk away it’s like, well have a good life. Be happy that I paid half your house off for you and I don’t get nothing out of it.

I really wanted to tell her that if we bought a house together, what she incredibly doesn’t want to happen would happen anyway but I guess she’s OK with the fact of having to give me half if we bought a house together but because she already had this house before I came into the picture, it’s all the sudden just not gonna happen that way because it’s all in her advantage because she already had the house before I came in. So I guess there’s really nothing left to discuss because if I have a problem with this then I need to just leave and I guess as long as we never have problems and stay together until our dying days, it won’t matter anyways that I paid off close to half her house.


----------



## Mybabysgotit

corneileous said:


> I guess this is the proper forum for this question but AnyWho, as the title says, I’m just curious about the proper way to split bills between one another and primarily what my question is, I got engaged to a girl who already owns her own house that she’s making payments on and I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her expecting me to pay for half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means I also don’t have any say about what happens with the house what we do with it, unless she agrees with it of course but as far as how the house is decorated or what color the walls are, I really don’t care but I don’t know, please correct me if I’m wrong for feeling like being that it’s not my house and that it will never be my house why I should be ok with half the house payment as mine.
> 
> I love this girl a lot but it’s kind of starting to make me feel like I’m just renting the place except I am in a romantic relationship with the landlord and live under the same roof.
> 
> I keep telling her that my goal is not to take her house away from her, even in the event of a divorce if that ever happens but still, on the same token, it’s kind of hard to make it feel like it’s my place because although she says she’s sharing it with me but, it’s still not my house.
> 
> Granted, I realize that if I was renting my own place, the only money that I would ever get back if I moved out would be my security deposit but is that how this is supposed to be, I’m basically renting what I’m having to pay half for each month? Whenever we talk… Or should I say argue about this, she gets frustrated at me and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand this is how it has to be and that this is me paying to live there when I’m already paying half the bills with her among other things. I’ve bought stuff for her house, I’m supplying the Netflix, the Hulu live and the Amazon prime, even buy groceries a lot of the times as well so as far as I’m concerned, I’m paying my fair share I guess I’m just asking for advice and opinions on if Im wrong in thinking I shouldn’t be paying for half of a house payment on a house that’ll never be mine. Thanks.


Once you get married and you put money for the mortgage, the house becomes community property; she's not going to have a choice in the matter, unless you are dumb enough o sign a prenup and still pay for the house.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

corneileous said:


> Well, without reading any more of the replies since this is a pretty hot topic, I guess it’s all good now because I just got off the phone with her and for the most part it was civil. There was a couple times it got a little heated but even after we do get married, I guess this is just how it’s supposed to be because she told me that even in her last marriage before they bought the house they had together before they got divorced, she moved in with him and she paid half of his house payment so I guess that’s just how it supposed to be because what she’s worried about and the reason why she doesn’t want to have my name on her house even after marriage is because being that nothing is certain, if anything was ever to happen between us, she doesn’t want to have to hire a lawyer to get my name off her house and pay me half of it, and then have to start all over again which, that part I can understand but I told her what I don’t understand is the fact that for you to have that security, this comes at my expense because if I stay with you long enough, your house will be paid for and I will have paid close to half of it for you but if something happens and I have to walk away it’s like, well have a good life. Be happy that I paid half your house off for you and I don’t get nothing out of it.
> 
> I really wanted to tell her that if we bought a house together, what she incredibly doesn’t want to happen would happen anyway but I guess she’s OK with the fact of having to give me half if we bought a house together but because she already had this house before I came into the picture, it’s all the sudden just not gonna happen that way because it’s all in her advantage because she already had the house before I came in. So I guess there’s really nothing left to discuss because if I have a problem with this then I need to just leave and I guess as long as we never have problems and stay together until our dying days, it won’t matter anyways that I paid off close to half her house.


Now you get it.

I do suggest take this time in your life to get your finances squared away and you buy you an investment property to have so you can have true freedom. She'll respect this action and it will improve your relationship.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Mybabysgotit said:


> Once you get married and you put money for the mortgage, the house becomes community property; she's not going to have a choice in the matter, unless you are dumb enough o sign a prenup and still pay for the house.


Beat me to it, great point.


----------



## pk1at

Sounds like you (or your fiancee) might benefit from some of the advice provided in this other thread, in general you should always protect your assets when going into a marriage









What financial moves can we make prior to marriage to...


A few family members (boys) are planning to get married in the next couple years. One question I am frequently asked is how do I keep what I earn separate from spouse. Initially my reaction was to advise not marrying, but I researched more about prenups/post nups and community property and there...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


----------



## pk1at

Mybabysgotit said:


> Once you get married and you put money for the mortgage, the house becomes community property; she's not going to have a choice in the matter, unless you are dumb enough o sign a prenup and still pay for the house.


She can ask him to sign an inter-spousal transfer deed (with proper transmutation clause). Or maybe not, it appears both OP and fiancee need some education on community property and transmutation.


----------



## Livvie

DownByTheRiver said:


> You aren't entitled to that house even if you WERE married. It's hers. She bought it before marriage. Even if she married you, it's still hers.


Wrong.

The equity at time of marriage is a premarital asset, his contributions post marriage counts as postmarital. 

The house isn't hers 😀. There is a mortgage. She has equity and the bank also owns it. It's not paid off. 

Actually the whole argument might be moot. Check out the state statutes around property and marriage. I do believe there is a good chance that on the deed or not, if that are married and he's paying half the mortgage, that postmariral equity is half 
HIS.


----------



## pk1at

Livvie said:


> Wrong.
> 
> The equity at time of marriage is a premarital asset, his contributions post marriage counts as postmarital.
> 
> The house isn't hers 😀. There is a mortgage. She has equity and the bank also owns it. It's not paid off.
> 
> Actually the whole argument might be moot. Check out the state statutes around property and marriage. I do believe there is a good chance that on the deed or not, if that are married and he's paying half the mortgage, that postmariral equity is half
> HIS.


Spot on, his name on the deed has no bearing on how the property is split in case of divorce. His fiancee is clueless if she thinks having the title makes it separate property


----------



## corneileous

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The fact you even asked this question is enough for her to not move forward. Have you ever been self sufficient?


What kind of question is that? I guess I just don’t see the difference in buying a house together and co-owing it but if she already had the house and I offer to help her pay it off and get partial ownership is just outta your realm of making sense, huh?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

corneileous said:


> What kind of question is that? I guess I just don’t see the difference in buying a house together and co-owing it but if she already had the house and I offer to help her pay it off and get partial ownership is just outta your realm of making sense, huh?


It's out of the realm of making sense period.

Have you ever been self sufficient, owned a house, lived on your own for a goodly amount of time?


----------



## corneileous

Rob_1 said:


> Which obviously, all together would be much less than you renting, wouldn't it be?
> 
> Moreover, the amount of her monthly mortgage, has nothing to do with what you're paying for rent. She could be paying $0.00 dollars, and still she can charge you what she wants. Is up to you whether to accept it or not. Once again, you're still paying less than what renting would cost you.


True but it’s not really the fact that I’ve been making half her house payments for the last almost 4 years; it’s the fact that even after we do get married, I’m still being expected to pay half her house off for her and not have a dime to show for it but, if we were to buy a house together, then I would but all the sudden because she already had this house, it’s OK to make me pay for half of it and not have anything to show for it. But it’s cool. Thankfully it wasn’t a very expensive house and as long as I stay with her for the rest of my life, I won’t have anything to worry about it anyways.


----------



## corneileous

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's out of the realm of making sense period.
> 
> Have you ever been self sufficient, owned a house, lived on your own for a goodly amount of time?


Of course I’ve been self-sufficient. I’ve never owned my own home and quite frankly I don’t know why that even matters but as far as living on my own, I haven’t all that much and again, what’s the relevance to whether I have or haven’t? The fact that I haven’t spent a whole lotta time by myself and that I’ve never owned my own home doesn’t have anything to do with this conversation. And as a matter of fact, I would really like to co-own this house with my soon to be wife and even help her pay it off but because of her insecurities of not having to start over again if something happens, just because she has the luxury of already owning her own home before I came into the picture, that’s never gonna happen.


----------



## corneileous

minimalME said:


> @corneileous, how did the two of you start all this? What was said at the beginning?
> 
> 
> But you've been doing this for four years.
> 
> Your choices are to stay, and let it go, or move out.
> 
> Personally, I don't see this going well for the two of you.
> 
> She doesn't want to share property with you. She's told you you're free to leave.
> 
> From a distance, it seems dysfunctional. 😔


Well maybe from yours and some other peoples perspectives, it may seem a little dysfunctional but I guess what I’ve come to realize is I’m probably not the only person that has gotten with somebody who owns their own home previously and had to pay half of that other person‘s house payment and be totally fine with it.


----------



## corneileous

minimalME said:


> @corneileous, how did the two of you start all this? What was said at the beginning?
> 
> 
> But you've been doing this for four years.
> 
> Your choices are to stay, and let it go, or move out.
> 
> Personally, I don't see this going well for the two of you.
> 
> She doesn't want to share property with you. She's told you you're free to leave.
> 
> From a distance, it seems dysfunctional. 😔
> 
> Well maybe from yours and some other peoples perspectives, it may seem a little dysfunctional but I guess what I’ve come to realize is I’m probably not the only person that has gotten with somebody who owns their own home previously and had to pay half of that other person‘s house payment and be totally fine with it.


----------



## Rob_1

pk1at said:


> Spot on, his name on the deed has no bearing on how the property is split in case of divorce. His fiancee is clueless if she thinks having the title makes it separate property



I'm not a lawyer, but if she keeps everything separated, by putting the house in a trust for her kids. Whatever he pays her will not be considered paying towards a mortgage, but living there rent/expenses, so it would do matter how she protects the property before marriage.


----------



## minimalME

corneileous said:


> Well maybe from yours and some other peoples perspectives, it may seem a little dysfunctional but I guess what I’ve come to realize is I’m probably not the only person that has gotten with somebody who owns their own home previously *and had to pay half of that other person‘s house payment and be totally fine with it*.


I don't know how this began with the two of you, but you didn't have to - you chose to. And you kept on doing it for four years.

You're not a victim.

And according to a couple of the other posts, you may very well have legal rights. I have no clue. You'd need to talk to a lawyer. Better now than later.


----------



## EleGirl

@corneileous

Important question here?

Is she asking for a pre-nup that specifies that the house is her separate property and that any marital income/assets used to pay the mortgage and/or do maintenance on the property does not constitute mingling her private asset with marital assets? 

A lot of the info you are getting here is not necessarily so. If there is no pre-nup that clearly states that the house remains her sole property, and marital income (that means your income and hers) is used to pay the mortgage, the house becomes community property. If there is ever a divorce, if she has very very good records, she could argue that her down payment and the equity at the time of marriage is hers, but that any equity that builds after marriage is community property and you get 50% of it.

You really need to talk to a lawyer.


----------



## corneileous

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> For some reason it appears like OP believes he is entitled to live rent free. That boggles the mind.


If the tables were turned, I wouldn’t charge her rent. If I had that house… or well, let me start this way; if that was my house and she moved in with me, I’d make her pay for half the utilities and such but especially… If I had every intentions of making it clear that if anything ever happens to us even after we get hitched, this is my house, I wouldn’t make her pay for half of my house payment. Am I wrong for feeling that way?


----------



## corneileous

minimalME said:


> I don't know how this began with the two of you, but you didn't have to - you chose to. And you kept on doing it for four years.


Egh, not necessarily, I just never did pay full attention when she broke it down telling me when I moved in there how much I was gonna have to pay her every month and when we were talking about this the other day about a possible increase because certain things have gone up, that’s when I guess I made the mistake about pointing out that part of what I’m paying her every month is going to pay for half her house payment so that’s how it started.


> You're not a victim.


I never said I was and I don’t claim to be so I don’t know where that came from.



> And according to a couple of the other posts, you may very well have legal rights. I have no clue. You'd need to talk to a lawyer. Better now than later.


 I don’t know, maybe I do but what good is it going to do me because if I go talk to a lawyer behind her back and then tell her about it, I probably just sealed my fate anyway and might have to walk out whether I want to or not but, it’s only money right? As long as I stay with her, I’ll have nothing to worry about. Like I said, she only financed about $55,000 and with my help, whatever that number is that I’ve paid, she’s about $12,000 less than what she financed.


----------



## corneileous

EleGirl said:


> @corneileous
> 
> Important question here?
> 
> Is she asking for a pre-nup that specifies that the house is her separate property and that any marital income/assets used to pay the mortgage and/or do maintenance on the property does not constitute mingling her private asset with marital assets?
> 
> A lot of the info you are getting here is not necessarily so. If there is no pre-nup that clearly states that the house remains her sole property, and marital income (that means your income and hers) is used to pay the mortgage, the house becomes community property. If there is ever a divorce, if she has very very good records, she could argue that her down payment and the equity at the time of marriage is hers, but that any equity that builds after marriage is community property and you get 50% of it.
> 
> You really need to talk to a lawyer.


No prenup.

But if I do have rights and something happens, we ended up having to have a divorce that I guess we’ll just cross that bridge when we get there.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> Well, without reading any more of the replies since this is a pretty hot topic, I guess it’s all good now because I just got off the phone with her and for the most part it was civil. There was a couple times it got a little heated but even after we do get married, I guess this is just how it’s supposed to be because she told me that even in her last marriage before they bought the house they had together before they got divorced, she moved in with him and she paid half of his house payment so I guess that’s just how it supposed to be because what she’s worried about and the reason why she doesn’t want to have my name on her house even after marriage is because being that nothing is certain, if anything was ever to happen between us, she doesn’t want to have to hire a lawyer to get my name off her house and pay me half of it, and then have to start all over again which, that part I can understand but I told her what I don’t understand is the fact that for you to have that security, this comes at my expense because if I stay with you long enough, your house will be paid for and I will have paid close to half of it for you but if something happens and I have to walk away it’s like, well have a good life. Be happy that I paid half your house off for you and I don’t get nothing out of it.
> 
> I really wanted to tell her that if we bought a house together, what she incredibly doesn’t want to happen would happen anyway but I guess she’s OK with the fact of having to give me half if we bought a house together but because she already had this house before I came into the picture, it’s all the sudden just not gonna happen that way because it’s all in her advantage because she already had the house before I came in. So I guess there’s really nothing left to discuss because if I have a problem with this then I need to just leave and I guess as long as we never have problems and stay together until our dying days, it won’t matter anyways that I paid off close to half her house.


You'd be paying rent whether you're with her or not and it would be a LOT higher than this is. Your parents won't be there forever to live with. You need to live on your own for a year and support yourself and a place to live so you can understand the simple reality here. It costs money to live somewhere once you leave your parents' home.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> No prenup.
> 
> But if I do have rights and something happens, we ended up having to have a divorce that I guess we’ll just cross that bridge when we get there.


Anything that you buy together after you marry, like furniture, will be half yours. Unless she has all the receipts showing she's the one who made the purchases on her own. Because I got a feeling, you are going to be not wanting to pay your part, judging by this thread.


----------



## Openminded

You need to find out the laws in your state regarding premarital assets. You should have paid attention in the beginning when she explained how this would go because she definitely hasn’t changed her mind. The amount you’ve paid to date is history at this point since you aren’t married. It was the cost of living there for four years. You need to find out what will happen _legally_ — not what you think should happen or she thinks should happen — with the house. If she discovers you get part she may decide not to marry you. If you discover you don’t get part you may decide not to marry her. Knowledge is always important but it’s especially important now and not waiting until there’s a problem — like divorce — to figure things out. My guess is you’re more invested in getting married than she is so you’re going to go into this with your eyes shut and then scream to the heavens that you’ve been robbed if it doesn’t work out.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> If the tables were turned, I wouldn’t charge her rent. If I had that house… or well, let me start this way; if that was my house and she moved in with me, I’d make her pay for half the utilities and such but especially… If I had every intentions of making it clear that if anything ever happens to us even after we get hitched, this is my house, I wouldn’t make her pay for half of my house payment. Am I wrong for feeling that way?


I would not matter if you 'charged her rent' if you were married. By law, anything that is paid with marital community assets become the property of both you and her. 

The same goes for the house your fiancé owns. Once you are married, if any community assets/income are used to pay the mortage, you own 50% of the house.


----------



## corneileous

DownByTheRiver said:


> You'd be paying rent whether you're with her or not and it would be a LOT higher than this is. Your parents won't be there forever to live with. You need to live on your own for a year and support yourself and a place to live so you can understand the simple reality here. It costs money to live somewhere once you leave your parents' home.


I realize that but I guess what I’m saying is different here is that I’m not renting a house and if I was renting a house, I would be totally and completely free and clear of any kind of maintenance on the house but see, aside from helping to pay her house payment, I’ve been going above and beyond and paying for certain things that we’ve had to do to the house. Being that she stated several times that it’s her house and not mine, maybe I should stop that. Besides, she’s already told me that I don’t have to help with paying for stuff like that. She said she appreciates it when I do but she said I’m not required to pay for stuff that has to be done to the house so there is that at least but I don’t like having that attitude. I would really like to be a true team with this whole thing and co-own that house with her but as I’ve already stated several times, she doesn’t want me to own any part of that house because of her own insecurities, this guarantees her from not having to start over again if we ever split up.

And I realize how much more expensive it could be if I rented my own house, I don’t need you to tell me that which therefore I don’t need to go live on my own for a year to see what it’s like because you shouldn’t have to do that to see what it’s like. Anybody with common sense knows that it’s not very easy on your own and paying your own bills unless you got a damn good job that supports at all and still has money left over to have fun with.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> No prenup.
> 
> But if I do have rights and something happens, we ended up having to have a divorce that I guess we’ll just cross that bridge when we get there.


It sounds like she does not know the law on this and does not know that any verbal agreement she thinks she is making won't hold up in court. If there is no pre-nup and income earned while you are married, the house is converted to a martial community asset.

Are you going to let her know that this is a high probability and that she needs to see an attorney to get a pre-nup drawn up?


----------



## corneileous

DownByTheRiver said:


> Anything that you buy together after you marry, like furniture, will be half yours. Unless she has all the receipts showing she's the one who made the purchases on her own. Because I got a feeling, you are going to be not wanting to pay your part, judging by this thread.


Really? What have I said to cause you to lead to that conclusion? That’s an awful bold thing to say. If we do get married and end up having a divorce, I’m not gonna try to take her for everything that she has unless she does something bad enough to me that would come even close to warrant that kind of behavior.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> I realize that but I guess what I’m saying is different here is that I’m not renting a house and if I was renting a house, I would be totally and completely free and clear of any kind of maintenance on the house but see, aside from helping to pay her house payment, I’ve been going above and beyond and paying for certain things that we’ve had to do to the house. Being that she stated several times that it’s her house and not mine, maybe I should stop that. Besides, she’s already told me that I don’t have to help with paying for stuff like that. She said she appreciates it when I do but she said I’m not required to pay for stuff that has to be done to the house so there is that at least but I don’t like having that attitude. I would really like to be a true team with this whole thing and co-own that house with her but as I’ve already stated several times, she doesn’t want me to own any part of that house because of her own insecurities, this guarantees her from not having to start over again if we ever split up.
> 
> And I realize how much more expensive it could be if I rented my own house, I don’t need you to tell me that which therefore I don’t need to go live on my own for a year to see what it’s like because you shouldn’t have to do that to see what it’s like. Anybody with common sense knows that it’s not very easy on your own and paying your own bills unless you got a damn good job that supports at all and still has money left over to have fun with.


All this is nonsense. She says that you don't have to help pay for house maintenance. That's not going to stop you from gaining rights to the equity in the house. 

How is she paying for the house? Will it be out of income she earns while she's married to you?


----------



## Openminded

corneileous said:


> If the tables were turned, I wouldn’t charge her rent. If I had that house… or well, let me start this way; if that was my house and she moved in with me, I’d make her pay for half the utilities and such but especially… If I had every intentions of making it clear that if anything ever happens to us even after we get hitched, this is my house, I wouldn’t make her pay for half of my house payment. Am I wrong for feeling that way?


You don’t understand that what you would do has absolutely nothing to do with what she chooses to do. Zero. The two of you are different. You think that because you feel that way she should agree. She doesn’t. She’s stated her position. It may or may not be valid legally. It’s up to you to find that out.


----------



## corneileous

EleGirl said:


> I would not matter if you 'charged her rent' if you were married. By law, anything that is paid with marital community assets become the property of both you and her.
> 
> The same goes for the house your fiancé owns. Once you are married, if any community assets/income are used to pay the mortage, you own 50% of the house.


But wouldn’t there have to be anything in writing that would prove that? I don’t have any kind of statement or written agreement or anything, this was just our verbal agreement when I moved in there that I would pay this amount and what that amount is, which all of you know, is half the utilities, half the Internet bill and half of the house payment.


----------



## pk1at

EleGirl said:


> It sounds like she does not know the law on this and does not know that any verbal agreement she thinks she is making won't hold up in court. If there is no pre-nup and income earned while you are married, the house is converted to a martial community asset.
> 
> Are you going to let her know that this is a high probability and that she needs to see an attorney to get a pre-nup drawn up?


LoL, I thought the advice was to not marry someone who values 'assets' more and anyone that wants to protect their assets after marriage is a monster. I guess that only applies to men


----------



## bobert

What are you looking for from the house, in the event of a divorce? Do you want half of the equity earned after the marriage starts? Half of it starting 4 years ago when you began paying her? Half of it starting from when the house was bought? The exact amount of money that you put in?


----------



## corneileous

EleGirl said:


> All this is nonsense. She says that you don't have to help pay for house maintenance. That's not going to stop you from gaining rights to the equity in the house.


It probably won’t, I was just stating that’s how strongly she feels about this that it’s just further “making it clear” on her part that it’s her house, not mine and that she’s saying I’m not required to help her with the upkeep.



> How is she paying for the house? Will it be out of income she earns while she's married to you?


I don’t get what you’re asking. Even after we get married, she’ll still be making the payment like she does on all the other bills just as she always has. I’ll just continue giving her the amount of money that I’ve been giving her all along.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> But wouldn’t there have to be anything in writing that would prove that? I don’t have any kind of statement or written agreement or anything, this was just our verbal agreement when I moved in there that I would pay this amount and what that amount is, which all of you know, is half the utilities, half the Internet bill and half of the house payment.


If you have no written agreement, I means no pre-nup.....

When you marry, if she uses current income (marital income) to pay the mortage then you will own 50% of the home, so you would get 50% of the equity in a divorce. Your name does not have to be on the deed.

If she keeps impeccable records, she might be able get a judge to declare that you only get 50% of any equity increase since the date of your marriage. But that does not always work. 

When a person mixes separate assets with marital assets/income, the separate assets convert to marital community assets.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> I realize that but I guess what I’m saying is different here is that I’m not renting a house and if I was renting a house, I would be totally and completely free and clear of any kind of maintenance on the house but see, aside from helping to pay her house payment, I’ve been going above and beyond and paying for certain things that we’ve had to do to the house. Being that she stated several times that it’s her house and not mine, maybe I should stop that. Besides, she’s already told me that I don’t have to help with paying for stuff like that. She said she appreciates it when I do but she said I’m not required to pay for stuff that has to be done to the house so there is that at least but I don’t like having that attitude. I would really like to be a true team with this whole thing and co-own that house with her but as I’ve already stated several times, she doesn’t want me to own any part of that house because of her own insecurities, this guarantees her from not having to start over again if we ever split up.
> 
> And I realize how much more expensive it could be if I rented my own house, I don’t need you to tell me that which therefore I don’t need to go live on my own for a year to see what it’s like because you shouldn’t have to do that to see what it’s like. Anybody with common sense knows that it’s not very easy on your own and paying your own bills unless you got a damn good job that supports at all and still has money left over to have fun with.


It's not her insecurities. It's her financial competency. 

But yeah, stop doing repairs on the house.


----------



## corneileous

EleGirl said:


> It sounds like she does not know the law on this and does not know that any verbal agreement she thinks she is making won't hold up in court. If there is no pre-nup and income earned while you are married, the house is converted to a martial community asset.
> 
> Are you going to let her know that this is a high probability and that she needs to see an attorney to get a pre-nup drawn up?


 Im not gonna say anything because further talking on this subject is probably gonna piss her off even more to the point to where what reason is there really to keep talking about this?

I guess if she has to find out the hard way on this in the event that we do get a divorce then well, wouldn’t that be on her? I mean after all, she’s the one that doesn’t want to play this as a team. Ever since I started this discussion I can kind of see where she’s coming from right now but after we get married, if certain things play out the way they do if the word divorce ever comes up then she kind of brought this on herself.


----------



## EleGirl

pk1at said:


> LoL, I thought the advice was to not marry someone who values 'assets' more and anyone that wants to protect their assets after marriage is a monster. I guess that only applies to men


You clearly don't really read that things people post. This works the same way whether the homeowner is a man or a woman. I've done forensic accounting for divorces. I'm very familiar with how this works. 

I'm telling this guy that he will own 50% of the home after marriage if there is no pre-nup. So, your accusations here are just stupid.

Your hate for women is just tiresome.


----------



## corneileous

bobert said:


> What are you looking for from the house, in the event of a divorce? Do you want half of the equity earned after the marriage starts? Half of it starting 4 years ago when you began paying her? Half of it starting from when the house was bought? The exact amount of money that you put in?


I don’t know if this is the first time you responded to this thread but if you went back and read, I think you’d have your answer about what I would be looking for. As far as all the help that I’ve given her before we get married, I guess I’m screwed on that part but anything else after that, I think I would like to get something because after all, I am helping to pay her house off. No matter how you decide to look at it, when it’s all said and done, I paid off close to half of her house that she didn’t have to pay for.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> It probably won’t, I was just stating that’s how strongly she feels about this that it’s just further “making it clear” on her part that it’s her house, not mine and that she’s saying I’m not required to help her with the upkeep.
> 
> I don’t get what you’re asking. Even after we get married, she’ll still be making the payment like she does on all the other bills just as she always has. I’ll just continue giving her the amount of money that I’ve been giving her all along.


What I mean by "how is she paying for the house payment" is .... will she be using income she earns while she's married to you, or will she be making the payments out of a bank account that hold money she saved prior to marriage?

If she pays out of her earning while married, then those payments convert the home to marital community property.

If she pays the mortage out of an account that is her sole property and that no marital income/assets have been comingled with it, a judge would probably find that you don't have any ownership. But then again, you would raise the fact that you paid for maintenance.


----------



## pk1at

corneileous said:


> Im not gonna say anything because further talking on this subject is probably gonna piss her off even more to the point to where what reason is there really to keep talking about this?
> 
> I guess if she has to find out the hard way on this in the event that we do get a divorce then well, wouldn’t that be on her? I mean after all, she’s the one that doesn’t want to play this as a team. Ever since I started this discussion I can kind of see where she’s coming from right now but after we get married, if certain things play out the way they do if the word divorce ever comes up then she kind of brought this on herself.


Yes, you have an easy chance to dupe her into an agreement she does not want. Ask yourself if someone dupes you into signing something you don't want, how are you going to feel? My suggestion is to calmly let her know all the complications of community property after marriage and give her a chance to sign needed contracts to keep the house to herself


----------



## corneileous

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's not her insecurities. It's her financial competency.
> 
> But yeah, stop doing repairs on the house.


No, I really think it is. Every time we talk about this subject and so far it’s only been three times, she says the same thing over and over again that even after we get married and if she put my name on her house, and something comes up we end up divorced, she does not want me to get half of what her house is worth which means she would have to sell the house and then have to start over again. This way, if anything ever happens, she expects me to just move out and she doesn’t have to do anything.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> No, I really think it is. Every time we talk about this subject and so far it’s only been three times, she says the same thing over and over again that even after we get married and if she put my name on her house, and something comes up we end up divorced, she does not want me to get half of what her house is worth which means she would have to sell the house and then have to start over again. This way, if anything ever happens, she expects me to just move out and she doesn’t have to do anything.


Right, because she paid for the house and it's for her kids. It's not your house. She's just not letting someone take advantage of her, that's all.


----------



## corneileous

EleGirl said:


> What I mean by "how is she paying for the house payment" is .... will she be using income she earns while she's married to you, or will she be making the payments out of a bank account that hold money she saved prior to marriage?
> 
> If she pays out of her earning while married, then those payments convert the home to marital community property.
> 
> If she pays the mortage out of an account that is her sole property and that no marital income/assets have been comingled with it, a judge would probably find that you don't have any ownership. But then again, you would raise the fact that you paid for maintenance.


I don’t think she has an account that she’s putting money into that she’s using to make the house payment but I guess you very well could be.


----------



## bobert

corneileous said:


> I don’t know if this is the first time you responded to this thread but if you went back and read, I think you’d have your answer about what I would be looking for. As far as all the help that I’ve given her before we get married, I guess I’m screwed on that part but anything else after that, I think I would like to get something because after all, I am helping to pay her house off. No matter how you decide to look at it, when it’s all said and done, I paid off close to half of her house that she didn’t have to pay for.


I have read every post, and no this isn't my first post. I didn't see (and still haven't seen) you say exactly what you want other than you want something to show for it.


----------



## corneileous

DownByTheRiver said:


> Right, because she paid for the house and it's for her kids. It's not your house. She's just not letting someone take advantage of her, that's all.


And you know what, I totally understand that which is why all along I’ve been saying if I’m never going to have any ties to this house then why are you making me pay for half of it? Oh wait, because it’s the cost of living there and because whether I’m living with her or in my own rental home, I’m gonna have to pay rent anyways, right? I’m really not trying to sound like a donkey about this but how am I supposed to feel? Again, I totally get where she’s coming from but it’s also at my expense. Just so that she can have a pretty good chunk of change to give to her kids when she passes on, I have to still help pay for that.….. because it’s just the cost of living there.


----------



## corneileous

bobert said:


> I have read every post, and no this isn't my first post. I didn't see (and still haven't seen) you say exactly what you want other than you want something to show for it.


Well, I’ve said it several times and I just quoted your second to last post and told you so there really shouldn’t be any question about it.


----------



## ah_sorandy

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's not her insecurities. It's her financial competency.
> 
> But yeah, stop doing repairs on the house.


There is nothing wrong with him doing repairs on the house, if he does it from the goodness of his heart.

He gets to live there and keeping the house in good working order, and well maintained, benefits him too. Maybe he could suggest a rent deferral for any major projects he completes. He could also make sure that his partner pays for all the building and maintenance supplies, if he is too cheap to do so.

When I'm living with my partner, and lover, in her home, I'll be more than eager to help her out with all of the renovations and repairs required. Working together with her on projects will be fun and exciting. The successes achieved improving her home, and my choice of living space, will make our play time even better together.

JMHO.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

corneileous said:


> And you know what, I totally understand that which is why all along I’ve been saying if I’m never going to have any ties to this house then why are you making me pay for half of it? Oh wait, because it’s the cost of living there and because whether I’m living with her or in my own rental home, I’m gonna have to pay rent anyways, right? I’m really not trying to sound like a donkey about this but how am I supposed to feel? Again, I totally get where she’s coming from but it’s also at my expense. Just so that she can have a pretty good chunk of change to give to her kids when she passes on, I have to still help pay for that.….. because it’s just the cost of living there.


How you're supposed to feel is a man who is supporting himself instead of leaning on a woman. She's not your mother!!


----------



## bobert

corneileous said:


> Well, I’ve said it several times and I just quoted your second to last post and told you so there really shouldn’t be any question about it.


No, you didn't give a clear answer. You said exactly what I did, that you want something to show for it. That's not a clear answer. Have fun.


----------



## DownButNotOut

@corneileous this woman is giving you a raw deal. Don't do it man.


----------



## RebuildingMe

Second marriages fail at a 70% rate. She needs to protect her assets. You need to start acquiring some or you’ll be working until your 85. Financially, this marriage would only benefit you, not her. She’s the monied spouse in the relationship. You both need to be careful.


----------



## corneileous

ah_sorandy said:


> There is nothing wrong with him doing repairs on the house, if he does it from the goodness of his heart.
> 
> He gets to live there and keeping the house in good working order, and well maintained, benefits him too. Maybe he could suggest a rent deferral for any major projects he completes. He could also make sure that his partner pays for all the building and maintenance supplies, if he is too cheap to do so.
> 
> When I'm living with my partner, and lover, in her home, I'll be more than eager to help her out with all of the renovations and repairs required. Working together with her on projects will be fun and exciting. The successes achieved improving her home, and my choice of living space, will make our play time even better together.
> 
> JMHO.


“If he is too cheap to do so”? First off I’m not cheap but I guess your definition of fair is different from mine. I don’t mean to make that sound negative because I love doing stuff for her but it’s that whole concept of putting money in to it and getting nothing in return. Sure, she appreciates it but the increase of value to the home doesn’t do anything for me. Again, not trying to be negative, I’m just merely pointing that little tidbit out.


----------



## corneileous

bobert said:


> No, you didn't give a clear answer. You said exactly what I did, that you want something to show for it. That's not a clear answer. Have fun.


And is that wrong of me? And I *did *give a clear answer, you’re just either failing to see it or choosing not to see it.


----------



## bobert

corneileous said:


> And is that wrong of me? And I *did *give a clear answer, you’re just either failing to see it or choosing not to see it.


Your communication skills are 👌🏻 Between the two of you, no wonder this is such an issue.


----------



## corneileous

DownButNotOut said:


> @corneileous this woman is giving you a raw deal. Don't do it man.


You’re probably right but, it’s only money, right? I guess this is a normal thing for some people, paying half their partner’s house payment with no return.


----------



## corneileous

DownByTheRiver said:


> How you're supposed to feel is a man who is supporting himself instead of leaning on a woman. She's not your mother!!


Wow, the audacity. I am not leaning on my girl in any way and I most *certainly* am not treating her like she’s my mother.

I’m sorry but these kinds of responses really needn’t not be said. You should be ashamed to make such an accusation.


----------



## corneileous

bobert said:


> Your communication skills are 👌🏻 Between the two of you, no wonder this is such an issue.


Well, you know what they say about opinions.
And maybe it is a communication issue between us but then again, she’s made it pretty clear how she feels.

But it’s funny you didn’t touch on the first part of my post.


----------



## TexasMom1216

Dude. Grow up.


----------



## DownButNotOut

corneileous said:


> You’re probably right but, it’s only money, right? I guess this is a normal thing for some people, paying half their partner’s house payment with no return.


It's not only money. You said you're 46? Is this your first marriage? Any kids of your own?

Yeah. It's normal to pay half your bills when you're shacked up with your boy/girl-friend. When you're married, it's not normal. EleGirl knows the law, listen to her about how marriage changes how assets are shared.

You come across as lacking self confidence, and self respect. IMO you should let this one go, then level up, find your man card, and settle down with a woman who wants to be a wife and give you children of your own. Go find someone who wants to build _with_ you, not in spite of you.


----------



## corneileous

TexasMom1216 said:


> Dude. Grow up.


I am grown up. Why don’t you quit making false accusations or pass the thread by if you can’t make reasonable and polite comments.


----------



## Anastasia6

corneileous said:


> Im not gonna say anything because further talking on this subject is probably gonna piss her off even more to the point to where what reason is there really to keep talking about this?
> 
> I guess if she has to find out the hard way on this in the event that we do get a divorce then well, wouldn’t that be on her? I mean after all, she’s the one that doesn’t want to play this as a team. *Ever since I started this discussion I can kind of see where she’s coming from right now but after we get married, if certain things play out the way they do if the word divorce ever comes up then she kind of brought this on herself.*


So you wonder why she is having trouble trusting you?

You know she wants to protect her house you learn that she probably won't be protecting it if she marries you without a prenup but instead of talking with her you just plan to screw her if you get divorced.

You keep saying she financed $55000 but you've never said how much the house is worth. You keep saying you are paying 1/2 of her mortgage a total of $20k when it's all said and done. However many mortgages depending on interest and the term which the mortgage is applied, when paid is close to 3 times the actual financed amount. So her 55k mortgage would cost anywhere from 120,000 to 180,000. AND if she paid $20k down payment or 100k then the mortgage isn't even representative of her investment.

You two have completely different approaches to a second marriage. Since you really can't get on board with her approach and she won't get on board with yours, you really should consider not getting married. You can be a team and still have separate finances but it does create a rift.

Your response is telling that you don't really love her so ditch her.


----------



## Livvie

Anastasia6 said:


> So you wonder why she is having trouble trusting you?
> 
> You know she wants to protect her house you learn that she probably won't be protecting it if she marries you without a prenup but instead of talking with her you just plan to screw her if you get divorced.
> 
> You keep saying she financed $55000 but you've never said how much the house is worth. You keep saying you are paying 1/2 of her mortgage a total of $20k when it's all said and done. However many mortgages depending on interest and the term which the mortgage is applied, when paid is close to 3 times the actual financed amount. So her 55k mortgage would cost anywhere from 120,000 to 180,000. AND if she paid $20k down payment or 100k then the mortgage isn't even representative of her investment.
> 
> You two have completely different approaches to a second marriage. Since you really can't get on board with her approach and she won't get on board with yours, you really should consider not getting married. You can be a team and still have separate finances but it does create a rift.
> 
> Your response is telling that you don't really love her so ditch her.


And she doesn't love him, she doesn't want to build a life and assets with him, she wants what they build together/PAY ON TOGETHER over the years to be hers alone. And in the event of a divorce she wants him left without a home and without equity in a home he paid half the mortgage on for a good long time while married.


----------



## corneileous

DownButNotOut said:


> It's not only money. You said you're 46? Is this your first marriage? Any kids of your own?
> 
> Yeah. It's normal to pay half your bills when you're shacked up with your boy/girl-friend. When you're married, it's not normal. EleGirl knows the law, listen to her about how marriage changes how assets are shared.
> 
> You come across as lacking self confidence, and self respect. IMO you should let this one go, then level up, find your man card, and settle down with a woman who wants to be a wife and give you children of your own. Go find someone who wants to build _with_ you, not in spite of you.


Second marriage for me, technically number two for her being that she was just common-law married to her ex.

And no on the kids. She has two. One’s grown and on her own and the other is a freshman in high school.

And yes, I appreciate her advice.

I wouldn’t say she’s shacking up with me out of spite, I just think the has some trust issues that’s fairly understandable if you knew her. And no, I’m past the point of wanting kids and so is she for more.

I may be lacking a little bit in the self-confidence department but not self-respect. Just despite the earlier “questioning” about me having no money, I’m not poor and no, I’m not looking to freeload. Call it dumb but since my first divorce and moved away from the state I was married in, I haven’t felt a need to have my own place but after living with my mother for 5 years, if my fiancé hadn’t of came around, I would have started looking because that was what my original plan was to begin with when I moved down here but being that it was gone all the time with my job and having two cats from the divorce, I really didn’t want my own place because of them not having anyone around. I’m not saying you are but [anyone]judge me all you want, it worked out great living with her. It helped her out tremendously and it helped me out. I was finally able to aquire a lot of things I’ve always wanted. Should I have saved more? Probably so but I guess it just wasn’t a priority.


----------



## corneileous

Livvie said:


> And she doesn't love him, she doesn't want to build a life and assets with him, she wants what they build together/PAY ON TOGETHER over the years to be hers alone. And in the event of a divorce she wants him left without a home and without equity in a home he paid half the mortgage on for a good long time while married.


I don’t think I’d go out on a limb to say she doesn’t love me but then again, it’s possible to love someone and still have ultimatums, if not pretty extreme ones. We learn a lot, we change a lot and what we’ll put up with/won’t put up with changes too once we’ve been married before.

Thank you for your post.


----------



## corneileous

Anastasia6 said:


> So you wonder why she is having trouble trusting you?


I don’t have to wonder, I KNOW why and it’s not what you think. I think I said that several times over the course of the discussion but I guess that’s neither here nor there. 




> You know she wants to protect her house you learn that she probably won't be protecting it if she marries you without a prenup but instead of talking with her you just plan to screw her if you get divorced.


Wow, calm down, girl. Ease up on the assumptions, will ya? Just because I’m not interested in doing that kind of stuff for her does not mean I intend to try an screw her over if we ever get divorced. For chrissakes, where do you people keep coming up with this nonsense?

But on a further note, if a prenup is brought up then I guess the deal’s off because I totally do not see the need for one and besides, if I end up paying for half her damn house, is that fair to let that happen?? I guess in your terms it is. 



> You keep saying she financed $55000 but you've never said how much the house is worth. You keep saying you are paying 1/2 of her mortgage a total of $20k when it's all said and done. However many mortgages depending on interest and the term which the mortgage is applied, when paid is close to 3 times the actual financed amount. So her 55k mortgage would cost anywhere from 120,000 to 180,000. AND if she paid $20k down payment or 100k then the mortgage isn't even representative of her investment.


What it’s currently worth is irrelevant.

And you’re right, all that other stuff you said but the fact still remains that I’m helping to pay the house off. For the current discussion, who cares what that number is now or later and besides, I’m not getting any of it so why keep beating around the bush about it?



> You two have completely different approaches to a second marriage. Since you really can't get on board with her approach and she won't get on board with yours, you really should consider not getting married. You can be a team and still have separate finances but it does create a rift.


Ive kinda changed my thinking a little because not only have I had to, she’ll never see eye to eye on this with me because she’s been in my very shoes in her last marriage and since she was ok with it, I guess I’m expected to be ok with it now. 



> Your response is telling that you don't really love her so ditch her.


Another false accusation. If I didn’t love her, I wouldn’t still be with her and I wouldn’t have even bothered to create a thread on this type of forum asking for advice/opinions.


----------



## Rob_1

I disagree with what's being said here about pre and post marriage, right now at this moment, he has not leg to stand on legally. They are not married and dependent where they live most likely is not even considered common law.

Although I am not a lawyer, I know for a fact of previous cases of known people to me, where there's no possibility for the partner to claim anything from the other partner due to the way the house ownership is set up.

She can place in an irrevocable trust for her kids the house, and regardless how much he wants to put in that house he will never have any legal rights to it.

There's many ways to do this. Rich people that have this type of situation all the time avoid these pitfalls by getting an iron tight assets protection document were the other partner can't touch those pre marriage assets, such as a house.

All she needs to do is to get an estate lawyer and they will make sure that he never will have any rights to her house.
Come on people, this happens all the time.


----------



## SongoftheSouth

corneliues just cut bait. your post/question is just entertainment now for the bitter and angry regulars with thousands of posts who find orgasmic pleasure on this site interrogating someone about every aspect of their personal life while pretending to offer you advice and then argue back and forth with one another based upon our past experiences. If you think any of it is useful take it, if not don't. You dont need to defend yourself to anyone here. Just my thoughts good luck


----------



## corneileous

SongoftheSouth said:


> corneliues just cut bait. your post/question is just entertainment now for the bitter and angry regulars with thousands of posts who find orgasmic pleasure on this site interrogating someone about every aspect of their personal life while pretending to offer you advice and then argue back and forth with one another based upon our past experiences. If you think any of it is useful take it, if not don't. You dont need to defend yourself to anyone here. Just my thoughts good luck


I think you’re right. Some people just don’t know how to be civil, I guess. I understand differences of opinion but too many people try too hard to apply their own life experiences to everyone else. I’ve even said I’ve had a somewhat change of thinking but I’m still getting the third degree.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> But on a further note, if a prenup is brought up then I guess the deal’s off because I totally do not see the need for one and besides, if I end up paying for half her damn house, is that fair to let that happen?? I guess in your terms it is.


One of the problems with giving you input here is that we don't know some important details. Details are important. Depending on details like the amount she paid for the house, her down payment, her current equity, etc. the evaluation of your situation could be very different.

For example, let's look at a couple of cases.
In case #1 below, the settlement would be profoundly unfair to her, and huge steal for you.
In case #2 below, the settlement would be fair for both of you.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> I think you’re right. Some people just don’t know how to be civil, I guess. I understand differences of opinion but too many people try too hard to apply their own life experiences to everyone else. I’ve even said I’ve had a somewhat change of thinking but I’m still getting the third degree.


This is an open, public forum. You will get all sorts of replies. It's best if you just ignore the posts taht you don't think are helpful. When you engage with them, it can spiral badly.


----------



## ah_sorandy

EleGirl said:


> One of the problems with giving you input here is that we don't know some important details. Details are important. Depending on details like the amount she paid for the house, her down payment, her current equity, etc. the evaluation of your situation could be very different.
> 
> For example, let's look at a couple of cases.
> In case #1 below, the settlement would be profoundly unfair to her, and huge steal for you.
> In case #2 below, the settlement would be fair for both of you.
> 
> View attachment 88155


Nice work EleGirl. The devil is truly in the details.


----------



## DudeInProgress

corneileous said:


> I think we do too but I almost feel like if I try to have this talk again with her that I might as well just pack up and leave because she has it set in her mind let me paying half the bills and half of her house payment is part of me paying for my house to live there. Which, I don’t mind having to pay all that, I guess what I’m more or less have a problem with is the fact that she just says that this will never be my house if that makes any sense. I don’t know, maybe this is all just because of the fact that I just don’t think no matter what we do, she doesn’t want me to have partial ownership of her house because if anything ever goes sour, she doesn’t wanna have to be the one to pack up and leave and then basically have to start all over again.


Why don’t you have any power in your relationship? Why is your wife dictating everything?
You need to get some strength and confidence enough to look out for your own best interests.

As most everyone has told you, no you should not pay half her mortgage for a house that you will never have any interest in.
Stop being passive and weak. Tell her that you intend to be a homeowner, and if she doesn’t want to share equity in this house, then she can rent this house out to cover the mortgage (so it can be passed down to her kids) and you’ll buy a marital house together. 

There are only three acceptable solutions:
1. Share equity in her house 
2. Buy a house together (she can keep hers as a rental)
3. You buy your own house in your name and you both live in it or you keep it as a rental.

And if this is a difficult conversation to have with her, then you are in a very weak and bad position in this relationship. And you should get out of it now.


----------



## DudeInProgress

corneileous said:


> You’re probably right but, it’s only money, right? I guess this is a normal thing for some people, paying half their partner’s house payment with no return.


No it’s not. As a temporary measure, maybe. Otherwise, only a fool would agree to that arrangement.


----------



## aine

corneileous said:


> Egh, not really. Well, yeah, I guess it would be if I stay there until my dying days being that I don’t have any kids of my own to leave anything to when I die but if I decide to move out shortly after that happened, the 20 grand or whatever the amount is I ended up help paying won’t ever be seen by me again when her kids sell the house for whatever it’s worth and split the profits.


The rent you would have paid elsewhere would also never be seen again, you seem


Diceplayer said:


> And yet another reason why shacking up is a bad idea. She's not charging you rent, she's charging you for sex. When you pay a hooker for sex, you put money into something that you'll never get back. So if you are going to continue banging this woman, shut up and pay the tab. What she is charging is less than you having to pay a hooker 3-4 times per week.


Seriously, not very nice, where do they get bottom feeders like you?


----------



## aine

corneileous said:


> I guess what I would consider fair would be like what most people do in a marriage where certain things like a house is owned jointly and we both try to pay it off together but quite frankly, I think she’s too worried about if something goes south, she doesn’t want to have to start all over again and find a new place because she bought this one by herself that’s hers that in her mind can’t ever be taken away from her but then again I don’t know totally until we can have a civilized conversation about it.
> 
> 
> *You’re right but then again, that’s not the point. I’ve actually stated several times now that I’m not looking to stay there for free. I just don’t think it’s right to make somebody pay for half your house payment that you don’t want to fully share to where basically what it all adds up to is I’m helping to pay her house off but I won’t ever see anything out of it.*


You appear to be fixated on this (in red). In reality you are getting a good deal, paying a lot less than what you would pay if you had to rent elsewhere, plus you get all the other benefits too! You keep saying you are not looking to stay for free but essentially that is exactly what you are saying. Please tell us exactly what you want? A share in her house just because you are paying a small 'rent'? Why should she give you ownership of a house you did not buy? She wants to have something left for the kids, that is her right. Alternatively, she rents out this house and you buy something together. Oh I forgot, you haven't a pot to piss in so cannot afford to do that. It is beginning to look more and more like you are looking for a free ride, she knows it and she will not allow herself to be taken for granted. Many on here are advising you against marrying her. if I had the opportunity to talk with her, i would advise her to not get married to you. What are you bringing to the table apart from as someone mentioned before, 'entitlement'? She owes you nothing, least of all a share in what is her house. You don't like it, move out and rent.
Another poster suggested you paying her for a share of the current equity in the house. can you afford to do that? Probably not, so what can you do? And finally, you are NOT helping her to pay off the house you are paying what appears to be a cheap rent only.


----------



## Divinely Favored

corneileous said:


> I think I can kinda understand a little bit where she’s coming from being that when she got out of her last marriage- well, it wasn’t really a marriage, it more of a common law thing or how ever the state of Oklahoma views it but when she moved out, her ex did take out a loan and paid her for half of the house being that they bought it together but, I kinda get the feeling she doesn’t want to have to do that all over again if things go south with me, or whoever else she could be with and I do respect that part but on the other hand, I’m just not cool with the part about having to pay half her house payment when she clearly stated it’s hers and not mine which for some reasons I’m cool with because if things do go south, I can just pack up, leave and walk away not having to worry about anything except finding a new place, of course.
> 
> I dunno, would anybody y’all be ok with splitting a house payment if the house wasn’t yours?


If you contribute toward the house it will be a marriage asset and she will have to buy you out or sell the home and split equity if you divorce. But with her attitude I would not contribute to house payment. It is not hers if she does not pay for it herself.


----------



## Blondilocks

corneileous said:


> And maybe it is a communication issue between us but then again, *she’s made it pretty clear how she feels.
> *



Yes, she has and you're here hoping to gather ammo to bully her into seeing it your way. That is disrespectful.

You definitely do not *have *to pay anything towards her house - you can save up first, last and security deposit and move into your very own house (not an apartment because living in a house and living in an apartment are worlds apart) where you will pay 100% of the bills and still have nothing to show for it. Sounds like a deal, right? At least you won't be twisting your testicles into a pretzel over not getting something you think you are entitled to.

I suggest you move on to someone who has as little as you and the two of you can build together and it will be fair all around. Good luck.


----------



## Livvie

Blondilocks said:


> Yes, she has and you're here hoping to gather ammo to bully her into seeing it your way. That is disrespectful.
> 
> You definitely do not *have *to pay anything towards her house - you can save up first, last and security deposit and move into your very own house (not an apartment because living in a house and living in an apartment are worlds apart) where you will pay 100% of the bills and still have nothing to show for it. Sounds like a deal, right? At least you won't be twisting your testicles into a pretzel over not getting something you think you are entitled to.
> 
> I suggest you move on to someone who has as little as you and the two of you can build together and it will be fair all around. Good luck.


I think this is unfair. Lots of "older" couples remarry and one might be in a mortgage situation in a house and one isn't. 

Lots of times when they MARRY they decide to build finances and equity together going forward. Doesn't mean you can't decide to protect the existing equity you had going into the marriage.

I'm amazed at the people who think he should pay into a home he won't ever build equity in going forward, _for potentially decades_. And end up, decades from now, as an elderly adult with no home or equity.

If I remarried and my spouse wanted me to to that, potentially leaving me as an elderly woman with nothing to show for decades I contributed to "his" house, **** THAT!


----------



## Livvie

Also the hoity toity elitist judgment of the OP by some of the posters here because he doesn't own a home right now is gross. 

Posters saying he "doesn't have a pot to piss in" and "as little as you" have turn my stomach.


----------



## corneileous

Blondilocks said:


> Yes, she has and you're here hoping to gather ammo to bully her into seeing it your way. That is disrespectful.
> 
> You definitely do not *have *to pay anything towards her house - you can save up first, last and security deposit and move into your very own house (not an apartment because living in a house and living in an apartment are worlds apart) where you will pay 100% of the bills and still have nothing to show for it. Sounds like a deal, right? At least you won't be twisting your testicles into a pretzel over not getting something you think you are entitled to.
> 
> I suggest you move on to someone who has as little as you and the two of you can build together and it will be fair all around. Good luck.


Lady, go away. You’re not helping, you’re probably just venting from your own past experiences or whatever it is you believe and it’s pretty clear you have totally the wrong opinion of me. I’m not coming here for “ammo”.


----------



## Livvie

corneileous said:


> Lady, go away. You’re not helping, you’re probably just venting from your own past experiences or whatever it is you believe and it’s pretty clear you have totally the wrong opinion of me. I’m not coming here for “ammo”.


Who are you talking to?


----------



## hamadryad

I guess I see both sides...

Yes, as stated, anywhere you will live its going to cost you...But I also see the issue about not getting any equity either...

IME, fair or not, most women consider a guy a free loader for what the OP is doing....Yet I have known tons of guys that would do it and have done it, and yet not pass judgement whatsoever...My niece moved into her bf house that is all his and she doesn't pay him anything, and they seem happy..I don't know, but I highly doubt he'd ever ask her for half the house expenses...Maybe she buys the food? I don't really know there..

Most of the advice given is correct and I agree...But I would suggest have your own place...Don't depend on her...For a short term ok, but at the end of the day, life is a lot better when you have a place of your own, or if you are a couple and secure in your deal, do something jointly...so you are both building towards something and you can eliminate the gorilla in the corner..

Women tend to view men as "what's his is ours", while at the same time seem to be more like "what's mine is mine".....I know that there are exceptions, but this is something I have noticed time and again, and is likely the reason why she is questioning and judging you on this..

Get your own place...don't put her in a position of power like that....If she is going to be punitive over it, then it will be a constant area of resentment if you don't see it her way...


----------



## LisaDiane

Livvie said:


> Who are you talking to?


@Blondilocks


----------



## corneileous

Livvie said:


> Who are you talking to?


That blondie gal. I corrected it, thank you for pointing that out.


----------



## minimalME

hamadryad said:


> IME, fair or not, most women consider a guy a free loader for what the OP is doing....


This has been said over and over again on this thread, and I'm still not seeing it.

He pays half the mortgage, and contributes to repairs - even after he's been told it's not necessary. And she set the price that he's paying.

How is he being a user?


----------



## LisaDiane

corneileous said:


> Lady, go away. You’re not helping, you’re probably just venting from your own past experiences or whatever it is you believe and it’s pretty clear you have totally the wrong opinion of me. I’m not coming here for “ammo”.


You certainly seem to react badly to being criticized or having your motives questioned.


----------



## minimalME

LisaDiane said:


> You certainly seem to react badly to being criticized or having your motives questioned.


It's very uncomfortable to have one's life taken a part and scutinized. I think you'd find very few people who'd respond in perfect humility.


----------



## Livvie

LisaDiane said:


> You certainly seem to react badly to being criticized or having your motives questioned.


It wasn't just criticism though. It was rude, disrespectful, and attributing things to him that were not true.


----------



## Openminded

She’s made it clear what she expects to happen. You don’t want to rock the boat by finding out legally where you stand. She doesn’t realize a prenup would likely help her. My guess is you’ll marry her and hope she changes her mind (unlikely) or, if she divorces you at some point, you’ll discover you own half the house after all (possibility). In the meantime, she thinks she has it all wrapped up and secure because she told you how she wants it to go. And you’re hoping she’s wrong. But neither of you are willing to get a lawyer and find out the truth. What could possibly go wrong.


----------



## corneileous

LisaDiane said:


> You certainly seem to react badly to being criticized or having your motives questioned.


Wouldn’t you? Of course I react badly to false accusations. I don’t take kindly to people assuming I have ill motives or is wanting to play dirty pool with my soon-to-be-wife. I’m not gonna waste my time saying anymore because if you believe this strongly about my reaction to having my motives questioned then I don’t know what to tell you.


----------



## Blondilocks

Livvie said:


> I think this is unfair. Lots of "older" couples remarry and one might be in a mortgage situation in a house and one isn't.
> 
> Lots of times when they MARRY they decide to build finances and equity together going forward. Doesn't mean you can't decide to protect the existing equity you had going into the marriage.
> 
> I'm amazed at the people who think he should pay into a home he won't ever build equity in going forward, _for potentially decades_. And end up, decades from now, as an elderly adult with no home or equity.
> 
> If I remarried and my spouse wanted me to to that, potentially leaving me as an elderly woman with nothing to show for decades I contributed to "his" house, **** THAT!


I don't think he should pay into a home where he won't build equity. I said what I think he should do. The fact is she doesn't want him to ever have an interest in HER home. You can whine that it isn't fair all you want but it isn't your home, is it?


----------



## hamadryad

minimalME said:


> This has been said over and over again on this thread, and I'm still not seeing it.
> 
> He pays half the mortgage, and contributes to repairs - even after he's been told it's not necessary. And she set the price that he's paying.
> 
> How is he being a user?


" I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her* expecting me to pay f*or half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means"

From the original post....I didn't read all the replies in between, so if I missed something, my bad...

The way I read it is she is _*expecting him to pay it*, _but he is questioning it....Did the story change after the original post?

I dunno....I still stand by my original sentiment,.....Its a weird deal...Get your own place or get a place jointly, if you will be married...(shrug)..


----------



## Blondilocks

corneileous said:


> Lady, go away. You’re not helping, you’re probably just venting from your own past experiences or whatever it is you believe and it’s pretty clear you have totally the wrong opinion of me. I’m not coming here for “ammo”.


Wrong. Whatever, I'm not the one who doesn't have a pot to piss in at 46. lol Keep playing your little game of "It isn't Fair, waaa" and see where it gets you.


----------



## corneileous

hamadryad said:


> IME, fair or not, most women consider a guy a free loader for what the OP is doing....


Yeah, I would like to see how I’m considered a freeloader as well when I practically am paying for half of her house among a whole lot other stuff… with nothing to ever show for it, if I might add. We put those cheaper gutters on the house… I paid for half of it. We just recently did cabinets here not too long ago and I bought every single one of the cabinet hinges, door pulls and drawer pulls. The second year I lived here, the condenser fan on the AC unit along with the resistor had to be replaced… Guess who bought it? And, I didn’t have her pay anybody to install it, either. Without going on and on, I’ve done a lot to help her out so don’t dare call me a freeloader. Her and her kid has the luxury of Netflix, Hulu live with extra channels and a whole bunch other stuff along with my half of the water bill, trash/sewer, electricity bill.


----------



## minimalME

corneileous said:


> Yeah, I would like to see how I’m considered a freeloader as well when I practically am paying for half of her house among a whole lot other stuff… *with nothing to ever show for it*, if I might add.


But this was your choice. 

You mentioned earlier that you didn't see why I wrote, 'you're not a vicitim'. 

This is why. 

This whole thread is about you seeing yourself as having being victimized. You haven't been.

This is the way you've chosen to live. You have nothing to show for it, but that was your choice.

I don't really understand why now it's a problem - after 4 years. And it doesn't really matter. The money's gone.

If you don't like this arrangement, change it.


----------



## LisaDiane

corneileous said:


> Yeah, I would like to see how I’m considered a freeloader as well when I practically am paying for half of her house among a whole lot other stuff… with nothing to ever show for it, if I might add. We put those cheaper gutters on the house… I paid for half of it. We just recently did cabinets here not too long ago and I bought every single one of the cabinet hinges, door pulls and drawer pulls. The second year I lived here, the condenser fan on the AC unit along with the resistor had to be replaced… Guess who bought it? And, I didn’t have her pay anybody to install it, either. Without going on and on, I’ve done a lot to help her out so don’t dare call me a freeloader. Her and her kid has the luxury of Netflix, Hulu live with extra channels and a whole bunch other stuff along with my half of the water bill, trash/sewer, electricity bill.


So then why are you doing all those things if you think it's wrong and unfair? Why don't you move back in with your mom and stop paying for anything at her house?

You aren't entitled to anything...YOU are choosing to pay her, and you don't want to take the consequences of not paying (breaking up). You've heard plenty of people tell you that you are right, it's not fair, move out and don't marry her...is that what you are going to do?


----------



## Livvie

LisaDiane said:


> So then why are you doing all those things if you think it's wrong and unfair? Why don't you move back in with your mom and stop paying for anything at her house?
> 
> You aren't entitled to anything...YOU are choosing to pay her, and you don't want to take the consequences of not paying (breaking up). You've heard plenty of people tell you that you are right, it's not fair, move out and don't marry her...is that what you are going to do?


But, he sure will be entitled.

If they marry, he actually will be entitled to post marital equity.


----------



## LisaDiane

Livvie said:


> But, he sure will be entitled.
> 
> If they marry, he actually will be entitled to post marital equity.


True, which is only fair. 

But I was referring to what was in his post that he's done pre-marriage, without any entitlements. If he doesn't like it, why is he doing it and then complaining after. It almost sounds like a covert contract. If he's not getting anything out of it and he thinks that's unfair, DON'T DO IT.


----------



## hamadryad

LisaDiane said:


> True, which is only fair.
> 
> But I was referring to what was in his post that he's done pre-marriage, without any entitlements. If he doesn't like it, why is he doing it and then complaining after. It almost sounds like a covert contract. If he's not getting anything out of it and he thinks that's unfair, DON'T DO IT.


I may be missing something, didn't read all the posts, but does he not live in this house, crap in the toilets, sleep in a bed, etc??

How is this "not getting anything out of it"?

Does he not live there??


----------



## LisaDiane

hamadryad said:


> I may be missing something, didn't read all the posts, but does he not live in this house, crap in the toilets, sleep in a bed, etc??
> 
> How is this "not getting anything out of it"?
> 
> Does he not live there??


Yes he does live there, but he wants more than to just be a renter...he wants a stake in her equity that he says he is paying for. He is paying half her mortgage payments ($250) plus half the utilities and some extras for all of them, and he doesn't think it's fair that he's paid her for 4 years and now has nothing to show for it.

Or something like that.

Previous to this, he lived with his mom, who's house is paid off, so he only had to help her pay the utilities.


----------



## LisaDiane

corneileous said:


> Wouldn’t you? Of course I react badly to false accusations. I don’t take kindly to people assuming I have ill motives or is wanting to play dirty pool with my soon-to-be-wife. I’m not gonna waste my time saying anymore because if you believe this strongly about my reaction to having my motives questioned then I don’t know what to tell you.


NO. I wouldn't.


----------



## corneileous

Blondilocks said:


> Wrong.


Wrong?? Wow. 


> Whatever, I'm not the one who doesn't have a pot to piss in at 46. lol


I guess that depends on what “pot” we’re talking about.


> Keep playing your little game of "It isn't Fair, waaa" and see where it gets you.


Actually if you’d read a little more, I’ve pretty much started changing my opinion being that my future wife paid rent to her ex in the same manner I am so if I want to stay with her, this is what I have to do or if I don’t, I leave.


----------



## hamadryad

LisaDiane said:


> Yes he does live there, but he wants more than to just be a renter...he wants a stake in her equity that he says he is paying for. He is paying half her mortgage payments ($250) plus half the utilities and some extras for all of them, and he doesn't think it's fair that he's paid her for 4 years and now has nothing to show for it.
> 
> Or something like that.
> 
> Previous to this, he lived with his mom, who's house is paid off, so he only had to help her pay the utilities.


250??

I dunno if its a trailer in the woods, but anywhere I can imagine, someone living in a house for that kind of money plus half of utilities would be kissing the floor tiles every time he sets foot in the door..02


----------



## Blondilocks

hamadryad said:


> 250??
> 
> I dunno if its a trailer in the woods, but anywhere I can imagine, someone living in a house for that kind of money plus half of utilities would be kissing the floor tiles every time he sets foot in the door..02


I'm curious as to where in the United States people have been able to buy a house for $55,000 in the last 30 years. Real estate prices in California are insane.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> I think you’re right. Some people just don’t know how to be civil, I guess. I understand differences of opinion but too many people try too hard to apply their own life experiences to everyone else. I’ve even said I’ve had a somewhat change of thinking but I’m still getting the third degree.


I'm reposting this because it seems you have ignored it. This is the crux of the situation. Which of the situations below is yours similar to?

One of the problems with giving you input here is that we don't know some important details. Details are important. Depending on details like the amount she paid for the house, her down payment, her current equity, etc. the evaluation of your situation could be very different.

For example, let's look at a couple of cases.
In case #1 below, the settlement would be profoundly unfair to her, and huge steal for you.
In case #2 below, the settlement would be fair for both of you.


----------



## EleGirl

minimalME said:


> This has been said over and over again on this thread, and I'm still not seeing it.
> 
> He pays half the mortgage, and contributes to repairs - even after he's been told it's not necessary. And she set the price that he's paying.
> 
> How is he being a user?


Can you tell us how much equity she has in the house at this time? If her equity is high, why should he be entitled to half of it when it's her separate property?


----------



## Blondilocks

Diceplayer said:


> Ooohhhh, you're so meeean. You took away my safe space and I feel soooo violated and offended. Seriously, you slam me but then you turn right around and say the same thing.
> 
> The guy is here playing the victim when all he has to do is move out and move on. But he doesn't want to because he's banging this chick without the commitment of marriage. All she is wanting to do is to get paid like all the other hookers do.


Do you really believe that women who have sex outside of marriage are all hookers?


----------



## LisaDiane

Diceplayer said:


> The guy is here playing the victim when all he has to do is move out and move on. But he doesn't want to because he's banging this chick without the commitment of marriage. All she is wanting to do is to get paid like all the other hookers do.


This is ridiculous...I'm sure she was "banging" him before he moved in and paid rent.


----------



## EleGirl

Livvie said:


> But, he sure will be entitled.
> 
> If they marry, he actually will be entitled to post marital equity.


If there is no pre-nup and they marry, he will be entitled to all the equity, even the equity that she built before they married. She potentially has a LOT to lose.


----------



## EleGirl

Diceplayer said:


> The guy is here playing the victim when all he has to do is move out and move on. But he doesn't want to because he's banging this chick without the commitment of marriage. All she is wanting to do is to get paid like all the other hookers do.


This is uncalled for, way over the top. $250 rent is paying for him living in the house. If he does not want to pay it, he can go back to his mother's house or rent a place for several times that amount. He's not paying for sex.

This line of posting, calling her a hooker, is uncalled for. Stop it.


----------



## ah_sorandy

@corneileous If your SO saw this thread, do you think you would still be living in her house? I really wonder what her opinion of you would be having posted this problem on TAM.


----------



## minimalME

EleGirl said:


> Can you tell us how much equity she has in the house at this time? If her equity is high, why should he be entitled to half of it when it's her separate property?


Then she should stay single.

That's where we are now - nickel and diming one another. That's not marriage.

Whenever I read posts about a spouse (or date or fiance or whoever) not paying 50% of whatever, I roll my eyes. It's absurd.

If you're_ that_ worried about being taken advantage of, don't get married.


----------



## minimalME

ah_sorandy said:


> @corneileous If your SO saw this thread, do you think you would still be living in her house? I really wonder what her opinion of you would be having posted this problem on TAM.


We could say that about any of us. That's why it's anonymous.


----------



## corneileous

minimalME said:


> But this was your choice.
> 
> You mentioned earlier that you didn't see why I wrote, 'you're not a vicitim'.
> 
> This is why.
> 
> This whole thread is about you seeing yourself as having being victimized. You haven't been.
> 
> This is the way you've chosen to live. You have nothing to show for it, but that was your choice.
> 
> I don't really understand why now it's a problem - after 4 years. And it doesn't really matter. The money's gone.
> 
> If you don't like this arrangement, change it.


It was my choice, yes, but I didn’t create this thread on the premise of me thinking I was being victimized, I just didn’t think this was normal.


----------



## corneileous

LisaDiane said:


> So then why are you doing all those things if you think it's wrong and unfair? Why don't you move back in with your mom and stop paying for anything at her house?
> 
> You aren't entitled to anything...YOU are choosing to pay her, and you don't want to take the consequences of not paying (breaking up). You've heard plenty of people tell you that you are right, it's not fair, move out and don't marry her...is that what you are going to do?


Because as I said, I guess I just didn’t fully realize all this time that the money I give her is going towards her house payment but with a little bit of change of thinking now, I guess it doesn’t really matter where the hell the money goes or how she divvies it up.

But why not move back in with my mom? Because I don’t want to and I’d rather be with my fiancé.


----------



## Blondilocks

minimalME said:


> If you're_ that_ worried about being taken advantage of, don't get married.


QFT! There will be times in every marriage where one partner is carrying 200% of the load. All of this 50/50 or 100/100 will be thrown out the window when life happens.


----------



## corneileous

hamadryad said:


> I may be missing something, didn't read all the posts, but does he not live in this house…


 Yes, I do live there. Isn’t that not obvious?


> …crap in the toilets….


Yes and I also help clean that toilet. Night trying to get sympathy for it or saying I need compensation, just saying it because you asked about it. 


> ….sleep in a bed, etc??


Yes, the $2400 Purple mattress I bought. Again, not looking for sympathy, credibility or anything, just throwing that out there. We had to get rid of my $5,000 Sleep Number bed because she didn’t like it. Lol. Nothing against her, that was a probably more my fault than anything.



> How is this "not getting anything out of it"?


I guess it’s just the fact that I’m helping to buy a house that I won’t ever see any equity in but again, it’s cool. 


> Does he not live there??


Again, yes, I do.


----------



## Openminded

EleGirl said:


> If there is no pre-nup and they marry, he will be entitled to all the equity, even the equity that she built before they married. She potentially has a LOT to lose.


Yes. Which is why I don’t understand why she wouldn’t want a prenup — unless she thinks just telling him what she wants will be enough protection in case she divorces him. Maybe she thinks he won’t fight for it (I definitely think he would).


----------



## Divinely Favored

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't get it. I mean you're going to have to pay rent somewhere. You're just not a reason in the world why she should let you live there for free or just paying part of the bills. One way or the other you should be paying half what it's costing to live there. You'll be doing more than that if you were out on your own.


So he needs to get a house and she can come live with him and help pay for his house in his name.


----------



## EleGirl

Openminded said:


> Yes. Which is why I don’t understand why she wouldn’t want a prenup — unless she thinks just telling him what she wants will be enough protection in case she divorces him. Maybe she thinks he won’t fight for it (I definitely think he would).


I think she is naive. IMO, @corneileous would do well to discuss this with her and explain the need for a prenup. He can do both, protect her interests and protect his own that way. It would be the right thing to do.


----------



## LisaDiane

corneileous said:


> Because as I said, I guess I just didn’t fully realize all this time that the money I give her is going towards her house payment but with a little bit of change of thinking now, I guess it doesn’t really matter where the hell the money goes or how she divvies it up.
> 
> But why not move back in with my mom? Because I don’t want to and I’d rather be with my fiancé.


When are you guys getting married? Do you have a specific date set?


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> Because as I said, I guess I just didn’t fully realize all this time that the money I give her is going towards her house payment but with a little bit of change of thinking now, I guess it doesn’t really matter where the hell the money goes or how she divvies it up.
> 
> But why not move back in with my mom? Because I don’t want to and I’d rather be with my fiancé.


I'm curious as to why you are not replying to my post about the different possible cases... one where you benefit grossly at her expense and the other case that is fair to both of you? 

You see, on this thread you have not given us any detailed information that would enable anyone to give you a reply based on your actual situation. So, instead you are getting gut-reactions from people at least half of which do not pertain to your situation and we have no idea which ones do.

This leads me to believe that your situation is one in which if the house becomes community property, you would be unfairly benefiting by taking over much of the home equity that is rightly her sole property.


----------



## gaius

A lot of the good women out there want to be taken care of on some level. They don't want to be made to feel like you're taking from them. She bought the house and considers it hers, so that's essentially what you'd be doing in her mind if you started gaining equity. 

A few things to consider, how much do you want this woman and what are her other options? If she's got one of those short haircuts that makes her look like Dennis the Menace and people ask when the baby's due when she's not pregnant you can probably get away with a harder line. But if she's got other guys just waiting around the corner to take care of her you might have to be more accommodating if you want to keep her. 

I would sit her down and give her two options. Either you start getting equity along the lines of what money you put in or she can take care of the mortgage payments 100% on her own and you'll take care of her in other ways, paying bills, buying cars, etc etc. Then take what money you were giving her and start your own investments. Just don't make it crypto.


----------



## lifeistooshort

EleGirl said:


> I'm curious as to why you are not replying to my post about the different possible cases... one where you benefit grossly at her expense and the other case that is fair to both of you?
> 
> You see, on this thread you have not given us any detailed information that would enable anyone to give you a reply based on your actual situation. So, instead you are getting gut-reactions from people at least half of which do not pertain to your situation and we have no idea which ones do.
> 
> This leads me to believe that your situation is one in which if the house becomes community property, you would be unfairly benefiting by taking over much of the home equity that is rightly her sole property.


I made several suggestions for how this could be handled equitably and asked if he'd proposed anything like that and he responded to none of them.

All he's done is fight with people and complain about how he's paying all this money.....$250 a month plus some cheap gutters and cabinet handles. I asked if he'd considered how much of his money was even going to principle and whether he was contributing to taxes and insurance and of course he didn't answer. I guess taxes and insurance are her problem.

He doesn't seem to want to talk business....all he knows is that he wants his half.


----------



## Openminded

EleGirl said:


> I think she is naive. IMO, @corneileous would do well to discuss this with her and explain the need for a prenup. He can do both, protect her interests and protect his own that way. It would be the right thing to do.


Yes, I agree she’s naive and discussion about a prenup would absolutely be the right thing to do. Then they would both be fully informed and that would be fair. But my guess is he doesn’t want to bring it up because she might decide not to marry him. And that’s what he’s trying to avoid, IMO.


----------



## EleGirl

lifeistooshort said:


> I made several suggestions for how this could be handled equitably and asked if he'd proposed anything like that and he responded to none of them.
> 
> All he's done is fight with people and complain about how he's paying all this money.....$250 a month plus some cheap gutters and cabinet handles. I asked if he'd considered how much of his money was even going to principle and whether he was contributing to taxes and insurance and of course he didn't answer. I guess taxes and insurance are her problem.
> 
> He doesn't seem to want to talk business....all he knows is that he wants his half.


Yep, it's starting to look like that way.


----------



## EleGirl

Openminded said:


> Yes, I agree she’s naive and that it would absolutely be the right thing to do. Then they would both be fully informed and that would be fair. But my guess is he doesn’t to even to bring it up because she might decide not to marry him. And that’s what he’s trying to avoid, IMO.


I'm starting to think this goes further than just that he wants to marry her, so he won't bring it up.

He made a comment that basically makes it sound like he knows that if there is no prenup, he will benefit out of proportion to his contribution, so he won't bring up and encourage a prenup. We'll see.


----------



## corneileous

Openminded said:


> *Snipped**
> 
> (I definitely think he would).


I don’t know why you would feel that way enough to say such a thing being that you don’t know me but I guess if that bridge ever came up, it would all depend on why she would be divorcing me or the other way around. But it’s nice you sound like you already have it figured out just simply based on a web forum.


----------



## corneileous

EleGirl said:


> I'm starting to think this goes further than just that he wants to marry her, so he won't bring it up.
> 
> He made a comment that basically makes it sound like he knows that if there is no prenup, he will benefit out of proportion to his contribution, so he won't bring up and encourage a prenup. We'll see.


I know this makes me sound like I have evil intentions but why would I have to encourage her to make sure she has all her bases covered? If she’s worried about it enough, she’ll take care of it on her own. Besides; I think I’ve already come to the conclusion that maybe this is how it has to be, I don’t know. I’m really not interested in taking anything from her but the fact will always remain that if I’m here long enough then I helped pay her house off. Nothing said will change that.


----------



## pk1at

Rob_1 said:


> I disagree with what's being said here about pre and post marriage, right now at this moment, he has not leg to stand on legally. They are not married and dependent where they live most likely is not even considered common law.
> 
> Although I am not a lawyer, I know for a fact of previous cases of known people to me, where there's no possibility for the partner to claim anything from the other partner due to the way the house ownership is set up.
> 
> She can place in an irrevocable trust for her kids the house, and regardless how much he wants to put in that house he will never have any legal rights to it.
> 
> There's many ways to do this. Rich people that have this type of situation all the time avoid these pitfalls by getting an iron tight assets protection document were the other partner can't touch those pre marriage assets, such as a house.
> 
> All she needs to do is to get an estate lawyer and they will make sure that he never will have any rights to her house.
> Come on people, this happens all the time.


You are correct, she has to setup an irrevocable trust before marriage and put the house on it. The beneficiaries have to be her children. The next step is to have a pre-nup clarifying that all payments she makes towards the house and any home price appreciation will be treated as separate property. The final step is to make him sign an inter-spousal transfer agreement saying rent payments from him will be treated as her separate property.
She needs to have these three documents ready to bulletproof the house as her property, after which he will have no rights to the house


----------



## Openminded

corneileous said:


> I don’t know why you would feel that way enough to say such a thing being that you don’t know me but I guess if that bridge ever came up, it would all depend on why she would be divorcing me or the other way around. But it’s nice you sound like you already have it figured out just simply based on a web forum.


That’s my take on you. One hundred percent. I think that house is very important to both of you and neither of you like the idea of losing anything. A word of advice — be prepared when you throw your problems out on a public forum to a bunch of strangers to hear what they really think.


----------



## pk1at

corneileous said:


> I know this makes me sound like I have evil intentions but why would I have to encourage her to make sure she has all her bases covered? If she’s worried about it enough, she’ll take care of it on her own. Besides; I think I’ve already come to the conclusion that maybe this is how it has to be, I don’t know. I’m really not interested in taking anything from her but the fact will always remain that if I’m here long enough then I helped pay her house off. Nothing said will change that.


Mostly agree with you, but making the primary residence her separate property after marriage is a complicated three step process I outlined in the earlier reply. At a minimum you should just warn her and leave it at that


----------



## Openminded

corneileous said:


> I know this makes me sound like I have evil intentions but why would I have to encourage her to make sure she has all her bases covered? If she’s worried about it enough, she’ll take care of it on her own. Besides; I think I’ve already come to the conclusion that maybe this is how it has to be, I don’t know. I’m really not interested in taking anything from her but the fact will always remain that if I’m here long enough then I helped pay her house off. Nothing said will change that.


Oh, I don’t know — maybe because you intend to marry her and therefore SHOULD have her best interest in mind as her potential husband? But my guess is what actually matters to you, more than the rest, is the house.


----------



## Sfort

corneileous said:


> Helping to pay her house off which I’ll never see anything of it? Sure, after we get married and if something ever happens to her I can still live in the house for as long as I want, making her two kids wait to get their inheritance but if I decide to move out of there early and they sell the house, the money that I invested into the house


[I'm replying to this post while there are 200 more after it that I haven't read yet, so if someone else has already made this point, ok.]

If you're paying $250 per month rent, you're not investing in her property. You are paying your share of the cost to have a place to live. When you pay $250 for rent, after 30 days, you and the homeowner are even. 

I don't understand why you're getting married. You're asking for trouble on numerous fronts. Just live with her. It's not going to work out anyway. If you don't like the $250 per month rent, go rent an apartment for $1500 month (helping the apartment owner pay off his/her mortgage?) and be done with it.


----------



## EleGirl

corneileous said:


> I know this makes me sound like I have evil intentions but why would I have to encourage her to make sure she has all her bases covered? If she’s worried about it enough, she’ll take care of it on her own.


Why? Because always come from love.

Because if you truly love her, you should want to help protect her... Even to protect the assets she accumulated prior to marriage. I agree that if you pay towards the mortgage and maintenance on the house, then you should have a right to half of the home equity that accumulated during marriage. And the only way to do this is with a prenup. By the way, I would say the very same thing even if the roles were reversed. This is not a sex/gender thing. It's about common decency and love.

It's very easy to believe that the very fact that you are not willing to bring up a prenup and work with her on this, points to the idea that you know that in the case of a divorce, you will be able to steal a large portion of her pre-marital equity from her. That you are cool with the idea of taking advantage of her not knowing that she needs a prenup to protect her pre-marriage equity.

You stand to gain the right to a huge portion of the equity that she has accumulated prior to your marriage if you two ever divorce. You are not willing to get a prenup to protect her equity. Instead, your goal is to grab as much from her as you can. This is what it now looks like based on your posts on here.



corneileous said:


> Besides; I think I’ve already come to the conclusion that maybe this is how it has to be, I don’t know. I’m really not interested in taking anything from her but the fact will always remain that if I’m here long enough then I helped pay her house off. Nothing said will change that.


Oh come on. Only about half of your tiny $250 a month mortage payment will go to pay off the mortgage. If she has a large amount of equity going into the marriage, then you stand to gain many times more than your contribution... ripping her off. Not very cool.

Also, these attitudes will make a very bad foundation for a marriage. Her attitude will hurt the marriage because she realizes that she stands to lose a lot financially marrying you. Your attitude will hurt a lot because you seem to think that by avoiding the topic and discussing a prenup, you have the advantage of taking her to the cleaners if the marriage does not work out.

The two of you don't trust each other. It's not going to work out very well.


----------



## pk1at

EleGirl said:


> Why? Because always come from love.
> 
> Because if you truly love her, you should want to help protect her... Even to protect the assets she accumulated prior to marriage. I agree that if you pay towards the mortgage and maintenance on the house, then you should have a right to half of the home equity that accumulated during marriage. And the only way to do this is with a prenup. By the way, I would say the very same thing even if the roles were reversed. This is not a sex/gender thing. It's about common decency and love.
> 
> It's very easy to believe that the very fact that you are not willing to bring up a prenup and work with her on this, points to the idea that you know that in the case of a divorce, you will be able to steal a large portion of her pre-marital equity from her. That you are cool with the idea of taking advantage of her not knowing that she needs a prenup to protect her pre-marriage equity.
> 
> You stand to gain the right to a huge portion of the equity that she has accumulated prior to your marriage if you two ever divorce. You are not willing to get a prenup to protect her equity. Instead, your goal is to grab as much from her as you can. This is what it now looks like based on your posts on here.
> 
> 
> Oh come on. Only about half of your tiny $250 a month mortage payment will go to pay off the mortgage. If she has a large amount of equity going into the marriage, then you stand to gain many times more than your contribution... ripping her off. Not very cool.
> 
> Also, these attitudes will make a very bad foundation for a marriage. Her attitude will hurt the marriage because she realizes that she stands to lose a lot financially marrying you. Your attitude will hurt a lot because you seem to think that by avoiding the topic and discussing a prenup, you have the advantage of taking her to the cleaners if the marriage does not work out.
> 
> The two of you don't trust each other. It's not going to work out very well.


If you truly love a girl, then you should work with her and ensure she can keep her assets separate. You are duty bound to inform her of all the pitfalls of community property. However if a man wants to keep his assets separate, then he is a monster who cares only about money and women should run away from such men.Remember, men should blindly go into marriage and be ready to share each and every thing they have, otherwise they are woman haters. 😀😃😄


----------



## lifeistooshort

pk1at said:


> If you truly love a girl, then you should work with her and ensure she can keep her assets separate. You are duty bound to inform her of all the pitfalls of community property. However if a man wants to keep his assets separate, then he is a monster who cares only about money and women should run away from such men.Remember, men should blindly go into marriage and be ready to share each and every thing they have, otherwise they are woman haters. 😀😃😄


Yes yes, we know.....evil womenz. 

Should we get married I would never expect my bf to share his assets with me if I'm not prepared to do the same in an equitable manner.

Geez, what an intellectually lazy statement.


----------



## EleGirl

pk1at said:


> If you truly love a girl, then you should work with her and ensure she can keep her assets separate. You are duty bound to inform her of all the pitfalls of community property. However if a man wants to keep his assets separate, then he is a monster who cares only about money and women should run away from such men. Remember, men should blindly go into marriage and be ready to share each and every thing they have, otherwise they are woman haters. 😀😃😄


You need to STOP misrepresenting my opinion on this. This is a personal attack since it clearly misrepresents everything I've said on this thread and your thread.

I stated in that post that in my opinion it's the same for both men and woman in this sort of situation. I have said many times on your thread that there are times when a prenup should be used, this is one of them.

I've also stated on your thread that I object to your ideas of a man lying to his wife so he can hide assets, even assets earned AFTER marriage. You know like hiding cash in holes in the yard.

You following me around and posting personal attacks that distort my point of view is not going to go well for you.


----------



## pk1at

What the OP's finance wants to do is rip him off his rental payments to grow her wealth. She is not even attempting to hide this scheme or sugarcoat it. However there has not been a single opinion calling her a 'evil woman' or a 'devious person'. All the advice has been to 'talk to her' ,'explain' etc.


----------



## pk1at

lifeistooshort said:


> Yes yes, we know.....evil womenz.
> 
> Should we get married I would never expect my bf to share his assets with me if I'm not prepared to do the same in an equitable manner.
> 
> Geez, what an intellectually lazy statement.


There was another thread I created to find ways to keep assets legally separate after marriage. One of the suggestions was to simply hide your assets from your partner. This is perfectly legal in some states and the penalty for getting caught is usually having to share 50%. Another way to hide assets is to state a lower value for an asset (Elon Musk did this in 2010, he claimed he was bankrupt).
I received about 10 pages of insults after suggesting this


----------



## EleGirl

pk1at said:


> What the OP's finance wants to do is rip him off his rental payments to grow her wealth. She is not even attempting to hide this scheme or sugarcoat it. However there has not been a single opinion calling her a 'evil woman' or a 'devious person'. All the advice has been to 'talk to her' ,'explain' etc.


She is up front and told him what she wants to happen. She's concerned about protecting her pre-martial assets. 

She's not lying, hiding assets, etc. She is being honest.

He is a big boy and can now make a decision based on what she has said. He has 3 choices.

1) Not marry her because he does not agree with what she wants.​or​2) Talk to her, explain his concerns, and suggest that they negotiate a prenup that protects both of them.​or​3) Take the passive aggressive path, not say anything, marry her with a chip on his shoulder and hold it against her going forward.​
So far he's talking about doing #3.


----------



## EleGirl

pk1at said:


> There was another thread I created to find ways to keep assets legally separate after marriage. One of the suggestions was to simply hide your assets from your partner.


Yea, on your thread you suggested that a man hide his assets from his wife and gave all sorts of ideas of how a man can hide assets and lie to his wife.

What does that have to do with anything being suggested on this thread? No one is suggesting that his fiancé should hide assets. Most are suggesting what you suggest... a prenup.

What's the problem with that?


----------



## lifeistooshort

pk1at said:


> What the OP's finance wants to do is rip him off his rental payments to grow her wealth. She is not even attempting to hide this scheme or sugarcoat it. However there has not been a single opinion calling her a 'evil woman' or a 'devious person'. All the advice has been to 'talk to her' ,'explain' etc.


Rip him off? For $250 a month? That's like robbing a gas station for $20... laughable.

He ain't even contributing to taxes and insurance. If she was looking to "rip him off" she'd at least be demanding market rent.

If getting "ripped off" bothers him he's free to move out and pay market rent somewhere else. Said evil woman sure isn't making very much off of this.


----------



## lifeistooshort

pk1at said:


> There was another thread I created to find ways to keep assets legally separate after marriage. One of the suggestions was to simply hide your assets from your partner. This is perfectly legal in some states and the penalty for getting caught is usually having to share 50%. Another way to hide assets is to state a lower value for an asset (Elon Musk did this in 2010, he claimed he was bankrupt).
> I received about 10 pages of insults after suggesting this


Why would you need to lie like a coward? Just be honest about what you're willing to give and set up a prenup.

If your partner doesn't agree perhaps they're not a good match for you.


----------



## LisaDiane

pk1at said:


> There was another thread I created to find ways to keep assets legally separate after marriage. One of the suggestions was to simply hide your assets from your partner. This is perfectly legal in some states and the penalty for getting caught is usually having to share 50%. Another way to hide assets is to state a lower value for an asset (Elon Musk did this in 2010, he claimed he was bankrupt).
> I received about 10 pages of insults after suggesting this


So what is your advice to this OP's fiance, if she wants to keep her house as HER asset? Imagine she's a GUY...how would you advise her if she was the man who had a house?


----------



## hamadryad

I'll give $350 and sleep on the couch with the dog. 😉


----------



## EleGirl

LisaDiane said:


> So what is your advice to this OP's fiance, if she wants to keep her house as HER asset? Imagine she's a GUY...how would you advise her if she was the man who had a house?


I quoted two of his posts below that explain his point of view. Basically, he seems to agree with a lot of us here.



pk1at said:


> You are correct, she has to setup an irrevocable trust before marriage and put the house on it. The beneficiaries have to be her children. The next step is to have a pre-nup clarifying that all payments she makes towards the house and any home price appreciation will be treated as separate property. The final step is to make him sign an inter-spousal transfer agreement saying rent payments from him will be treated as her separate property.
> She needs to have these three documents ready to bulletproof the house as her property, after which he will have no rights to the house





pk1at said:


> Yes, you have an easy chance to dupe her into an agreement she does not want. Ask yourself if someone dupes you into signing something you don't want, how are you going to feel? My suggestion is to calmly let her know all the complications of community property after marriage and give her a chance to sign needed contracts to keep the house to herself


----------



## ah_sorandy

hamadryad said:


> I'll give $350 and sleep on the couch with the dog. 😉


Hey, I need a place to live, I'll see your $350 and raise it to $400. I'll sleep wherever I'm told to sleep and do all the dishes and laundry!

Wait, where is the OP's wife's house located, as I need to escape the winter and cold? I can always watch hockey on my laptop. Lolol


----------



## lifeistooshort

ah_sorandy said:


> Hey, I need a place to live, I'll see your $350 and raise it to $400. I'll sleep wherever I'm told to sleep and do all the dishes and laundry!
> 
> Wait, where is the OP's wife's house located, as I need to escape the winter and cold? I can always watch hockey on my laptop. Lolol


CA. Can you even rent a bridge for $250/ mo in CA?


----------



## Rustynuts67

I would think what matters is at the end when you go your separate ways, what the judge decides in the court room? I understand if you live in a de facto relationship its the same as married? Regardless of contribution the court will split the assets as if both have contributed equally? 

Just revers the genders, Its common for a woman to come into a relationship with little assets, live in de facto, contribute little financially, and then take half of assets at the end of the relationship, what's the difference with this situation? 

She needs to realise if she lives with a guy regardless of contribution or arrangements, there is a chance he can take half of her house at the end. Maybe a prenup might help?


----------



## EleGirl

Rustynuts67 said:


> I would think what matters is at the end when you go your separate ways, what the judge decides in the court room? I understand if you live in a de facto relationship its the same as married? Regardless of contribution the court will split the assets as if both have contributed equally?
> 
> Just revers the genders, Its common for a woman to come into a relationship with little assets, live in de facto, contribute little financially, and then take half of assets at the end of the relationship, what's the difference with this situation?
> 
> She needs to realise if she lives with a guy regardless of contribution or arrangements, there is a chance he can take half of her house at the end. Maybe a prenup might help?


There is a thing called 'separate property'. Her house is separate. She can do things to protect her pre-marriage equity in the house.


----------



## David60525

corneileous said:


> I guess this is the proper forum for this question but AnyWho, as the title says, I’m just curious about the proper way to split bills between one another and primarily what my question is, I got engaged to a girl who already owns her own house that she’s making payments on and I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her expecting me to pay for half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means I also don’t have any say about what happens with the house what we do with it, unless she agrees with it of course but as far as how the house is decorated or what color the walls are, I really don’t care but I don’t know, please correct me if I’m wrong for feeling like being that it’s not my house and that it will never be my house why I should be ok with half the house payment as mine.
> 
> I love this girl a lot but it’s kind of starting to make me feel like I’m just renting the place except I am in a romantic relationship with the landlord and live under the same roof.
> 
> I keep telling her that my goal is not to take her house away from her, even in the event of a divorce if that ever happens but still, on the same token, it’s kind of hard to make it feel like it’s my place because although she says she’s sharing it with me but, it’s still not my house.
> 
> Granted, I realize that if I was renting my own place, the only money that I would ever get back if I moved out would be my security deposit but is that how this is supposed to be, I’m basically renting what I’m having to pay half for each month? Whenever we talk… Or should I say argue about this, she gets frustrated at me and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand this is how it has to be and that this is me paying to live there when I’m already paying half the bills with her among other things. I’ve bought stuff for her house, I’m supplying the Netflix, the Hulu live and the Amazon prime, even buy groceries a lot of the times as well so as far as I’m concerned, I’m paying my fair share I guess I’m just asking for advice and opinions on if Im wrong in thinking I shouldn’t be paying for half of a house payment on a house that’ll never be mine. Thanks.


Find bk by Dr. Judy, stupid mistakes couples make. ??? Do not live together, no paying her bills, ever, do not share a car, no chiping in, no buying her anything except gifts, if you give $, it's w gift. You rn into legal battles if you do the above. Also especially too, if you move in. 
D o not give up apartment ever unless married.
If you marry her she must sell her home and you chip in so you both have vested interest. Without mutual interest in the home you are cheated.
If you are the largest earner, and pay 100% of mortgage you get nothing back cuz your name isn't on the tite. So if you sack split other bills,
But don't pay rent. Best stay in own place and trade off where both sleep don t marry.
Even if you have kids think how to protect your assets. Read friends partners and lovers too


----------



## Philip P.

corneileous said:


> I guess this is the proper forum for this question but AnyWho, as the title says, I’m just curious about the proper way to split bills between one another and primarily what my question is, I got engaged to a girl who already owns her own house that she’s making payments on and I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her expecting me to pay for half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means I also don’t have any say about what happens with the house what we do with it, unless she agrees with it of course but as far as how the house is decorated or what color the walls are, I really don’t care but I don’t know, please correct me if I’m wrong for feeling like being that it’s not my house and that it will never be my house why I should be ok with half the house payment as mine.
> 
> I love this girl a lot but it’s kind of starting to make me feel like I’m just renting the place except I am in a romantic relationship with the landlord and live under the same roof.
> 
> I keep telling her that my goal is not to take her house away from her, even in the event of a divorce if that ever happens but still, on the same token, it’s kind of hard to make it feel like it’s my place because although she says she’s sharing it with me but, it’s still not my house.
> 
> Granted, I realize that if I was renting my own place, the only money that I would ever get back if I moved out would be my security deposit but is that how this is supposed to be, I’m basically renting what I’m having to pay half for each month? Whenever we talk… Or should I say argue about this, she gets frustrated at me and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand this is how it has to be and that this is me paying to live there when I’m already paying half the bills with her among other things. I’ve bought stuff for her house, I’m supplying the Netflix, the Hulu live and the Amazon prime, even buy groceries a lot of the times as well so as far as I’m concerned, I’m paying my fair share I guess I’m just asking for advice and opinions on if Im wrong in thinking I shouldn’t be paying for half of a house payment on a house that’ll never be mine. Thanks.


I’ve only skimmed a few answers but it’s hard to give advice on this. When my wife and I started out we built everything together and pooled our money and coordinated our efforts. In fact because of my occupation and busy schedule my wife probably would be considered the one who coordinates the finances. That’s fine, because she’s good at it and I trust her.

You said you don’t plan to take her home if the marriage should fail and that’s commendable. But you also say you fight about the situation when it’s discussed. That’s concerning. Is there anyone you can talk to? A lawyer friend? Perhaps just knowing you rights might be enough. I don’t mean doing anything clandestine but sometimes knowing where you stand is good because you may find out your concerns aren’t really anything to be too worried about. I know if someone were to point out that a home was something they own I respect that, but I’d also have to track what I do and bring into the relationship. Would I have any financial responsibility directly or indirectly for the home if the marriage ends. It sounds like she doesn’t want that but I don’t know enough to be sure obviously. Anyhow…Good luck.


----------



## DTO

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't see any way of doing it except for you to pay rent to her if you're going to live there. It's her house. IMO, the rent should be what you'd expect to pay on the open market if it was you and a roommate sharing a rent home. Your name isn't on the house. It's hers. Of course, you could decide to buy a home together and rent that one out or sell it. I think though if you already have this type of money disagreement, not sure how this will all work out. You can't expect her to just give you half her house she's been paying on that is in her name.


This. You should not be expected to pay 50%, but should not expect to pay nothing either.

My advice assumes the mortgage is fairly recent. If she's owned the home for many years, 50% of the mortgage might be half a rent payment (or even less) so do the math first.


----------



## DTO

corneileous said:


> I guess this is the proper forum for this question but AnyWho, as the title says, I’m just curious about the proper way to split bills between one another and primarily what my question is, I got engaged to a girl who already owns her own house that she’s making payments on and I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her expecting me to pay for half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means I also don’t have any say about what happens with the house what we do with it, unless she agrees with it of course but as far as how the house is decorated or what color the walls are, I really don’t care but I don’t know, please correct me if I’m wrong for feeling like being that it’s not my house and that it will never be my house why I should be ok with half the house payment as mine.
> 
> I love this girl a lot but it’s kind of starting to make me feel like I’m just renting the place except I am in a romantic relationship with the landlord and live under the same roof.
> 
> I keep telling her that my goal is not to take her house away from her, even in the event of a divorce if that ever happens but still, on the same token, it’s kind of hard to make it feel like it’s my place because although she says she’s sharing it with me but, it’s still not my house.
> 
> Granted, I realize that if I was renting my own place, the only money that I would ever get back if I moved out would be my security deposit but is that how this is supposed to be, I’m basically renting what I’m having to pay half for each month? Whenever we talk… Or should I say argue about this, she gets frustrated at me and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand this is how it has to be and that this is me paying to live there when I’m already paying half the bills with her among other things. I’ve bought stuff for her house, I’m supplying the Netflix, the Hulu live and the Amazon prime, even buy groceries a lot of the times as well so as far as I’m concerned, I’m paying my fair share I guess I’m just asking for advice and opinions on if Im wrong in thinking I shouldn’t be paying for half of a house payment on a house that’ll never be mine. Thanks.


I seriously would rethink this arrangement and perhaps even the marriage. How long has she owned this place? Does she expect you to pay 50% of all expenses? How does the amount she expects from you compare to what it would cost to rent a room somewhere? Keep in mind that if you rented your own place you couldn't paint but you certainly could furnish and decorate how you choose.

More importantly, why is she trying to enrich herself at your expense? Even with separate finances, your fortunes are still tied together unless you're living separate lives. What happens if she wants to move? What happens when it comes time to retire? Is there a big earnings gap either way and how does that impact this arrangement?

I personally could never do what your fiancee is requesting. A few years ago my serious GF and I were cohabitating and had this issue. I owned a home and there was an income difference too. My home will go to my daughter upon my passing - that's non-negotiable. But I expected zero rent from her. I only requested that she cover the extra expenses associated with her moving in and contribute around the home. Rather than take from her, I wanted her to invest in herself - bank money instead of paying rent, or finish her degree like she wanted (she'd only need a part-time job). It blows my mind that people who are going to (hopefully) be lifelong partners would want this type of gap.


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## DTO

lifeistooshort said:


> CA. Can you even rent a bridge for $250/ mo in CA?


LOL! Even out in the I.E. you're going to pay over $1,600 for a little 1 BR.


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## SureWhyNot

corneileous said:


> I think I can kinda understand a little bit where she’s coming from being that when she got out of her last marriage- well, it wasn’t really a marriage, it more of a common law thing or how ever the state of Oklahoma views it but when she moved out, her ex did take out a loan and paid her for half of the house being that they bought it together but, I kinda get the feeling she doesn’t want to have to do that all over again if things go south with me, or whoever else she could be with and I do respect that part but on the other hand, I’m just not cool with the part about having to pay half her house payment when she clearly stated it’s hers and not mine which for some reasons I’m cool with because if things do go south, I can just pack up, leave and walk away not having to worry about anything except finding a new place, of course.
> 
> I dunno, would anybody y’all be ok with splitting a house payment if the house wasn’t yours?


Here's the thing... do you expect to live rent free? How is it any different? Also, someone mentioned buying your own home and building your own equity simultaneously. That, is a great idea. Then you can the home you own out, have tenants paying your mortgage off and your soon to be can have her own home and equity as well.

But seriously, you should be paying rent. Unless you're a complete bum.. and you don't sound like a bum but I think you're looking too hard at this situation for potential pitfalls. There are lots of solutions and don't listen to the turds on here who are trying to make her out to be sinister. She's not. She's smart and has made a good investment. Maybe you two move into a home you buy together and she rents her house out and that part of her income? See.. lots of solutions. Be creative.


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## aine

pk1at said:


> What the OP's finance wants to do is rip him off his rental payments to grow her wealth. She is not even attempting to hide this scheme or sugarcoat it. However there has not been a single opinion calling her a 'evil woman' or a 'devious person'. All the advice has been to 'talk to her' ,'explain' etc.


FFS! the measly $250 per month would be enough to rent a cowshed somewhere. Excluding the mortgage interest costs he is probably contributing $180 per month. Please look at the big picture, yet he wants to have an equal share in her house!! The OP is stretching it. If he is so bothered, go buy his own house and yes, why not, buy a marital home that they can both live in and contribute to. What is OP bringing to this marriage by way of assets, nothing it seems. But of course no, cause in reality the OP doesn't have a pot to piss in. She has been burnt once and quite frankly she is making a mistake hooking up with an man who is so mercenary. She has been upfront about everything. if he doesn't like it, move out and rent at $500-1000 per month. OP have you never heard of the term "opportunity cost:"? You are an opportunist after all.


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## Beach123

corneileous said:


> As I’ve said, that’s not really the issue. I have no problem paying my fair share. The issue I have is putting a fairly large sun of money into something I’ll never get back. I could run the idea by her about refinancing the house she has together in both our names but see, that’s just it. That’s not what she wants. She doesn’t want my name on it period but still expects me to essentially pay half her house off and call it part of the living expenses.


Then buy your own house! And when you do that you can get renters to come in and you can also charge them rent.
You are a room mate to her. She has the benefit because she owns the home.

You resent her - so just move now. She has her rules and expectations and you don’t like that.

You two aren’t a good match. She needs someone that’s grateful and you need to be providing for your own independent life.


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## Girl_power

LATERILUS79 said:


> Yeah….. she’s playing the “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine” game.
> 
> I think you all could come up with a compromise with a prenup. Certainly there is something you can do where the money you put towards the house can be saved and she gets to keep her house in the event of a divorce?


He doesn’t have anything


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## lmucamac

corneileous said:


> I guess this is the proper forum for this question but AnyWho, as the title says, I’m just curious about the proper way to split bills between one another and primarily what my question is, I got engaged to a girl who already owns her own house that she’s making payments on and I’m just curious what your guy’s opinion is on her expecting me to pay for half of her house payment when she’s already explicitly spelled it out that the house will never be mine and that it is hers which means I also don’t have any say about what happens with the house what we do with it, unless she agrees with it of course but as far as how the house is decorated or what color the walls are, I really don’t care but I don’t know, please correct me if I’m wrong for feeling like being that it’s not my house and that it will never be my house why I should be ok with half the house payment as mine.
> 
> I love this girl a lot but it’s kind of starting to make me feel like I’m just renting the place except I am in a romantic relationship with the landlord and live under the same roof.
> 
> I keep telling her that my goal is not to take her house away from her, even in the event of a divorce if that ever happens but still, on the same token, it’s kind of hard to make it feel like it’s my place because although she says she’s sharing it with me but, it’s still not my house.
> 
> Granted, I realize that if I was renting my own place, the only moneuld be my security deposit but is that how this is supposed to be, I’m basically renting what I’m having to pay half for each month? Whenever we talk… Or should I say argue about this, she gets frustrated at me and doesn’t understand why I can’t understand this is how it has to be and that this is m
> 
> MY REPLY. Before I got married I owned my house, and he lived with me. The house would always be mine and he would have no equity. Every thing (utilities) was in my name. We agreed on a monthly rent, which was equal to approximately 1/2 of the expenses (NOT the mortgage). It was actually a lot less than what he was paying for rent prior to moving in. I paid for cleaning supplies and household items, he paid for groceries. After he paid fme rent, I never wanted any more, but he offered to pay for several maintenance and minor repairs. We would have frequent open conversations to be sure that we were both still in agreement as high inflation hit and made a slight adjustment when necessary.
> 
> After we got married, we bought a house together. I sold my house and kept all the proceeds. We have a joint checking account and each contribute the same amount. All household expenses are paid out of that account.
> 
> Whats the going rate for rent in your area? Maybe thats what you shkuldip pay her each month.
> 
> YOU NEED TO RESOLVE THIS BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED.


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