# is she flirting?...



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

ladies, i need your honest opinion. i saw this message from her facebook page. he is her work collegue. i just wanna know if i'm just imagining things. is she flirting, or she's just being relaxed and friendly?...TIA...

April 7 at 6:20pm 
dunno if this is you, john.
lemme know....


April 8 at 12:39am 
yes ma'am!
how you doin? 

April 12 at 7:41pm 
just flew to bahrain with rick and he mentioned that your pics is all over facebook (w/ a new squeeze, hhmmm?). wanna see, wanna see. and what's up withcha? got a good massage in bkk. that health land is just awesome!!!! anyhoo, kep in touch, john. missed that call from ya..... 

April 12 at 7:43pm 
sooorry!!! i meant, keep in touch!!! missin' the 'johnnywalker' antics.... 

April 14 at 12:23pm 
yes, i will kep in touch! haha! ended up pretty much sleeping all day that sunday, oops sorry! as for my pics... have a look. but i don't know any rick, so i'm not quite sure who he is and why he's looking at my pics? now i'm off to Coachella | Home for the weekend. let's catch up soon, if it's possible with our rosters that is!


----------



## AFwifey (Apr 26, 2013)

Doesn't seem like there is too much to it ATM at least. Friendly talking and wanting to catch up maybe.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Looks OK to me and I'm pretty suspicious normally. 

If you think she may have a tendency to cheat, you may want to casually ask at some point about these people and events. Laugh along with her when she tells the story, because you always want it to be lighthearted anyway (as in not trying to find something wrong). 

But it sounds as though you are uneasy, so is there more you're not saying?


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I agree with AF and DT...not much there. What makes you suspicious enough to search out a place like TAM? Are there other things?


----------



## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

On it's own it doesn't look particularly flirty. 
Do you know what the 'JohnnyWalker antics' comment means...is there drinking when they meet up?

Is this text an isolated thing or are there other occurances concerning you/possible red flags?


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

By itself, it seems okay..... although it does sound as if this woman might feel she is a "close" friend of your SO. 

If that's the case, she may feel that she is "entitled". Some female friends feel as if they are qualified to tell guys whom they can/ should date. BT Experienced T.

But not always, so I'm just saying keep your antenna up.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well the part where he gets a massage in bangkok is somewhat disturbing


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> well the part where he gets a massage in bangkok is somewhat disturbing



Interesting, that is more of a pink flag for me.


----------



## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

The only thing that would bother me slightly here is the phone call. My husband would be POed if I was talking on the phone to male friends. I'd have a twitch or two here if he was chatting with ladies on the phone. But it's not a super big deal. Just the only little red flag that I noticed. The rest seemed conversational and not flirty.


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

Many thanks for all the replies...

YES, there's more to this facebook message. Before this facebook message occured, I already told her to stop "getting close" or being friendly with other guys. It's because I discovered she had several guy friends i'm not aware of. She said she didn't tell me about them because she knows i'll be upset and suspicious. And she's right, i would be upset...because she had an affair several years ago. And she told me that affair started as "friendship".

Our marriage is not a bed of roses. We had issues, and I had my share of indiscretions early on our marriage. After i discovered these "secret friends", we both declared to each other that we both want to work things out...be open and honest to each other about everything from thereon. 

Just as I was writing this reply, i just discovered again that she flew on a flight with one of her "secret friends"...a friend she has a big crush on. Although that flight was "accidental" (scheduled), she didn't tell me she was on a flight with him. She admitted before that she tried to find out if this particular "crush" also likes her. She feigned an excuse to call him up in his room during one of their flights together. "Fortunately", his reply was negative so nothing more happened.

At present, she seems to be doing everything she can to make-up for her shortcomings. Except for these recent incidents and avoiding to discuss in detail about those "friendships", she's "okay".

I really am confused and at a loss on how to deal with this. I already recommended that she reads "Not JUST Friends" by Shirley Glass, in the hope that she will realize those "friendships" she had were not "innocent and harmless" as what she wants me to believe.

And according to her, this particular facebook message is nothing but a friendly greeting to a dear friend...one of her "secret friends".

She had "been to that road" before, and yet, i believe, she was on her way to "that same road" again by having these "secret friendships". I wrongly believed she had "learned her lesson" from that previous affair several years ago.

I really don't know if she's serious in making things work between us. Is she really "that bad'? OR perhaps, she's really "that naive" in thinking she can safely handle friendships with the opposite sex because, according to her, "she already learned her lesson"?...i really don't know.

I came here to have unbiased / neutral opinions and suggestions regarding our situation. I appreciate your replies and help...Thank you very much to all of you.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Ah....that changes the comments on your first post dramatically, you will see.

What were you thinking? That an isolated, relatively innocent chat would be a decisive knockout indicator?? This new info should not have been witheld in your first post.

People here are unbiased and neutral as they don't know you and give their opinion based on the info you deliver. Deliver a biased info and you get biased advice, but not by the posters, biased by yourself!

I can't use words as to tell people they are ST***, but else I would.


----------



## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

rafaelandy said:


> Many thanks for all the replies...
> 
> YES, there's more to this facebook message. Before this facebook message occured, I already told her to stop "getting close" or being friendly with other guys. It's because I discovered she had several guy friends i'm not aware of. She said she didn't tell me about them because she knows i'll be upset and suspicious. And she's right, i would be upset...because she had an affair several years ago. And she told me that affair started as "friendship".
> 
> ...


Looks like you two both have had trust issues because of infidelity. Not a very strong foundation to stand on for a marriage. Catch 22. If you are suspicious and not trusting her, that will drive her into some other man's arms quicker than if you just trust her completely. Either you trust her or you don't. If you don't, she will most likely have another affair because she is already "guilty". If you simply trust her, she will have that knowledge in the back of her mind and she will know that if she goes out on you she is actually breaking your trust. 

You both need to know what you want out of your relationship. Counseling?


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

I apologize for my incomplete story. I'm confused and I thought that FB message was enough. Yes, I feel stupid with this situation I'm in right now.

Yes, I don't trust her. And it also came into my thoughts that she might have an affair again down the road with the way she behaved.

I'm trying very hard to put these "negative thoughts" out of my mind. I avoid bringing up the issues as much as possible to avoid having arguments. 

She insists we should leave it all behind and move on...that we should focus on rebuilding our relationship instead of dwelling in the past. But I fear that if we do not confront our issues thoroughly, truthfully, and decisively, we're in for another heartbreak somewhere in the future.

We both agreed to work on our relationship. But we have different views on how to tackle our problems. For her, those "friendships" were not serious as I think they were. She just enjoyed the company, the attention, etc. But I think otherwise...her behavior put our relationship at risk. And she refuses to acknowledge this view.

I'm torn between believing her, or insisting my point of view on how to solve our problem. 

I fear if we don't do this correctly, "mistakes" will be made again. 

I'm really confused...


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She is behaving like a high schooler. She obviously thrives on attention from other men, whether it actually heads toward affair material or not. The messages you posted didnt seem overly flirty in and of themselves, but ARE part of a larger problem, obviously. It makes you uncomfortable so it needs to stop, if she cant/wont, then you two really need to get into counseling, at the very least.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

rafaelandy said:


> I apologize for my incomplete story. I'm confused and I thought that FB message was enough. Yes, I feel stupid with this situation I'm in right now.
> 
> Yes, I don't trust her. And it also came into my thoughts that she might have an affair again down the road with the way she behaved.
> 
> ...



OK, now you are on track.

Why don't you follow the standard procedure?

You check for red flags, monitor, post your info and get feedback.

You do not talk about any suspicion anymore. Only if you find out about an affair you confront, after you have conclusive evidence (let the people here be the judge of that)

If you find nothing after a couple of months then you can relax and just keep a silent eye on things.

Whatever you do, never reveal your sources or way's of monitoring.


----------



## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

IMO it seems like there is nothing there. Seems like two friends chatting and nothing more.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

dragonlady4ever said:


> IMO it seems like there is nothing there. Seems like two friends chatting and nothing more.


It is very rare on these forums that things turn out innocent, I am sorry to say...but hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


----------



## torani (May 6, 2013)

I don't see any harm in the facebook message. Doesn't seem like flirting to me. 

However, the trust issue is a big deal. Both of you need to focus on earning and gaining back the trust in the relationship. That means no secrets, being honest regardless the outcome, being completely open: ie you can see her facebook without any hesitation on her part.... 

Ive broken trust in my relationship over small lies... I was afraid to tell my partner that my sons father dropped him off at our home after my partner made it clear that my ex was not allowed to come to our home. I wanted to save a fight but all I did was break trust.

It takes a long time to earn back trust once it has been broken. I have learned that being honest no matter the outcome is always best. Even now, my partner doesn't always believe me, even though I am honest about something... That is a consequence I have had to accept until he can feel trust with me again.

Hopefully she can understand that part of it? You did say she wants to work on the relationship...


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Tell us about your indiscretions early in the marriage. That's going to have a bearing on all this as well.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She sounds like she's about 12. I didn't get "flirty" but I did pick up on "irritating".


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Looks OK to me and I'm pretty suspicious normally.
> 
> If you think she may have a tendency to cheat, you may want to casually ask at some point about these people and events. Laugh along with her when she tells the story, because you always want it to be lighthearted anyway (as in not trying to find something wrong).
> 
> But it sounds as though you are uneasy, so is there more you're not saying?


yes, i think she has a tendency to cheat...she had an affair several years ago, and she hasn't told me about this "close friend" (FB message receiver) and other opposite-sex friends of hers...



waiwera said:


> On it's own it doesn't look particularly flirty.
> Do you know what the 'JohnnyWalker antics' comment means...is there drinking when they meet up?
> 
> Is this text an isolated thing or are there other occurances concerning you/possible red flags?


i don't know what "johnny walker antics" means because she avoids discussing about the details of these "friendships"...

yes, i saw a couple of "possible" red flags - 

1)voice recordings of "one of her friends" calling her to check if she's already in her hotel room and asking if they could have lunch together...the other recording, the same guy apologizing for not making it for lunch because of work, but still asking if he could see her the next day. 

2) a picture of her in her phone with the same "friend"...just a side hug though.

3)another voice recording, from a guy she has a big crush on, returning her call...nothing wrong with the guy's reply though. but she admitted she feigned an excuse to call him to see if he likes her, too. she felt the guy has a crush on her, too.

4)a text (text joke) from one of her guy-friends. she kept this particular text in her phone folder, and she doesn't normally keep texts from other people except from me, our kids, her sisters and parents.

the common thing about all these "possible" red flags?---she hasn't told me about these things and her "friendships" with other guys. whenever i try to get details, she always try to avoid and becomes defensive.



> well the part where he gets a massage in bangkok is somewhat disturbing


she (my wife) got a massage in bangkok. i "suspect" they had an arrangement to have it together but the guy stood her up.



> The only thing that would bother me slightly here is the phone call. My husband would be POed if I was talking on the phone to male friends. I'd have a twitch or two here if he was chatting with ladies on the phone. But it's not a super big deal. Just the only little red flag that I noticed. The rest seemed conversational and not flirty.


yes, i thought of it, too. why would she seek him out all of a sudden in facebook? she's bored? why not send a message to me or her kids?...and i particularly don't like the "MISSING HIS CALLS" part. 



> She is behaving like a high schooler. She obviously thrives on attention from other men, whether it actually heads toward affair material or not. The messages you posted didnt seem overly flirty in and of themselves, but ARE part of a larger problem, obviously. It makes you uncomfortable so it needs to stop, if she cant/wont, then you two really need to get into counseling, at the very least.


yes, she said she enjoyed the attention, validation, etc...and i don't know for sure if she already and REALLY stopped this kind of behavior. what i do know is i already told/asked her to stop it before i discovered this FB message.



> OK, now you are on track.
> 
> Why don't you follow the standard procedure?
> 
> ...


yes, my "radar" is up. it's actually distracting me from my daily routine. it's "eating" me up from the inside.

the only evidence i have are the recordings, picture, FB message, and the secrecies. she doesn't want to elaborate...it always ends up in arguments...it's exhausting.



> However, the trust issue is a big deal. Both of you need to focus on earning and gaining back the trust in the relationship. That means no secrets, being honest regardless the outcome, being completely open: ie you can see her facebook without any hesitation on her part....


yes, TRUST is a big, if not the main, issue here. as i said, just recently she didn't inform me she was flying again with her "big crush". i feel that she should be honest and open with regards to these matters, as i have told/asked her before.

as it is, i haven't fully trusted her again for having an affair several years ago, and yet, she did these things behind my back.


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Tell us about your indiscretions early in the marriage. That's going to have a bearing on all this as well.


when we were just starting a relationship (we're both 19 then), i had a flling to which i immediately confessed. a few months after, i had another fling. i didn't confess this one, and she discovered it after a couple of years when we were already married.

i tried to court someone while she was assigned far away. again, she discovered it.

then i cut-out a picture of a girl from my college yearbook and FOOLISHLY kept it in my wallet. i don't know this girl, i just found her pretty. again she discovered the picture. 

we had a baby and got married. our married life wasn't perfect. we had arguments and issues. we had our happy moments. but those issues were not addressed very well. i guess our resentments piled-up. i'm busy with my job, she's always away on flights. she's suspicious of me, and i resented it. i guess we were both IMMATURE.

then i discovered her 6-month affair. we were 27 then. she said the most that happened between them was they made-out once. this discovery drove me nuts. there were intense arguments.

as years went by, our relationship just went along like a "see-saw"...one day loving, the next day fighting. i tried to take revenge by flirting online...seeking out dates with other women ( not much success though). she discovered one or two of these. the "see-saw" relationship went on.

i realized i handled the issue of her affair very badly. instead of fixing and addressing the problem, i let anger and resentment take over me. i tried to call her attention that we were drifting apart and we have to fix our relationship.

i guess it was too late because she was already having these "secret friendships". 

so, here i am, asking for your help...i want to resolve our problems once and for all. your opinions and suggestions are much appreciated.


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> She sounds like she's about 12. I didn't get "flirty" but I did pick up on "irritating".


she's 43...


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My take is that her affair was full-on PA, not just making out (that's bad enough). 

Sounds like you've done a lot of growing, but she may still be in a passive/aggressive mode of punishing you. 

If it were my wife, and she had secret male friends, and we had a history of infidelity in our relationship -- I'd say CHOOSE. Them or me. Full transparency about all these people, what they're doing. 

I work in an industry where people travel all the time away from their spouses. I've seen it go on where they have a port in every storm, so to speak. It's party time away from the drudgery of home life. 

Setting up a massage date, drinking with members of the opposite sex, your list of red flags and her defensiveness tell me there's more going on than meets your eye. I am sorry, but that's what I am seeing from way out here in cyberspace, reading your story.


----------



## belleoftheball (May 16, 2013)

Wow after reading what you just had to say, than I take back what I said about it being nothing there. You two seem to have a lot of issues. I am right not at a loss for words after reading all of that.


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> My take is that her affair was full-on PA, not just making out (that's bad enough).
> 
> Sounds like you've done a lot of growing, but she may still be in a passive/aggressive mode of punishing you.
> 
> ...


yes, that's what i've been suspecting, her actions during the affair tells me it was more than just "makingout". i think the guy somewhat "ditched" her.

and yes, in one of our discussions about her "friendships", she mentioned "revenge", "being able the one to lead on men", "wanting to be the bad girl", "to be the one to hurt other people", etc.

i, too, feel that there's more she's keeping from me. i just don't know how to make her tell me "all". she simply refuses to discuss things in detail. she always say she wants to focus on rebuilding, and not dwell on the past...and i always say to her - "...we can't "sweep this under the rug" anymore. i or we already made that mistake before, and we MUST discuss and talk about our problems thoroughly, and then we can focus on rebuilding. rebuilding will be meaningless if there are so many questions unanswered TRUTHFULLY and COMPLETELY, and if there is no TRUST. these infidelities will happen again for sure in the future if we don't tackle this problems NOW..." 

another thing, i think one reason she's reluctant to talk about it is because she wants "time to somewhat heal the pain first". i say this because a long time ago, my mother's passport went "missing" (they weren't in good terms then). we never found out who took it until several years later. i asked her casually if she (my wife) was the one who took the passport...she said YES. when asked why admit just now, she said she was afraid then of the repercussions if she told the truth. she felt it doesn't matter that much anymore because it happened a long time ago...so she admitted taking the passport. ( she took it because of issues)

i just don't know how i can make her understand my point...that the time to deal with this is NOW. the longer we prolong this, the greater chance that something will go wrong again...

am i wrong in pressing this?...does she have a point?


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

Hello guys, 

it's been a while since my last post here. i'm posting here again to thank all of you who offered their opinions and advice. i would like to say to those who are seeking answers and advice who might stumble upon on this thread - what these kind people said and advised to me are ACCURATE and SPOT ON.

actually, it's been more than a year since her actual revelation. i was utterly shocked and devastated by the magnitude of her indiscretions. i never expected anything like it. it's only now that i'm beginning to wake-up and pick-up the pieces of myself. it was the worst i've ever experienced in my life. i've lost perspective of myself, and of the future. 

these are the things she admitted - 

- she had a 4-month sex affair (4x) with one of the men in her voice recordings. (a bellhop) 

- she got drunk and allowed two men to sleep with her in her room. (allegedly, "no sex")

- she got drunk again in a different occasion and allowed a pilot to sleep with her in her room on the same bed. (again, "no sex")

- she admitted she tried to get the attention of the other guy in her voice recordings. (nothing happened, according to her)

- she participated in "competitions/contests" during her flights with other flight attendants as to who gets to be the "GF" of the pilots.

- she had become a "very bad girl" and wanted to seduce married men to prove her attractiveness.

- she is fond of good-looking men and is very friendly with men. she was already close to boys ever since her younger days

- she got involved in the company of other "cheating women". she became "a cheap" woman (regrets she might had as well got paid instead of giving it for free)

- she didn't get "emotionally attached"...she even claims to have said to the married bellhop that "it was just sex between 2 consenting adults" 



her REASONS - 

- revenge for my own past indiscretions

- she wanted to do things for herself after "suffering" for a long time in our marriage

- she wanted to be a bad girl; she wanted to seduce married men so other women would suffer the way she suffered; she wanted to seduce men and "drop" them just like that (power tripping)

- she had sex to prove her "attractiveness and sexiness"

- she "lost herself and was trying to find who she was" 

- her collegues were doing it, too, so she might as well indulge herself. it's "in" thing to do

- she was curious

- she was desperate and had "no other choice"

- she felt she was a dirty and a bad person anyway

- and her MOST compelling reason - her marriage made her do those despicable things


i feel that she hasn't disclosed ALL of it. it's just the "tip of the iceberg". a lot of inconsistencies in her confession. but i don't have the strength anymore to press her for more "information". it's too disgusting to stomach. 

now she insists on being given ANOTHER chance to make it right. (she already had an affair 12 years ago) she shouted "...if i will not be the one you'll end up with - NOBODY WILL!..." . she becomes violent whenever i bring up the issue of divorce. she insists that since she also gave me "chances" for my own indiscretions, she is also entitled to be given. 

i read somewhere that one should not make a MAJOR decision if emotions are still high. and that's what i did - i stayed for over a year because i didn't know what to do. but now things are becoming clearer for me - i will leave her and start a new life. 

guys, how do i make a quiet and peaceful exit? i want to start a new life without the drama and scandals. it not likely she will grant me that with the way she behaves. although she is "trying" to make amends, the love and trust are gone. i know it will never come back. i feel i am a different person now - emotionless and incapable of loving again.

and besides, i observed she hasn't changed - real and deep changes. at the very least, she is still friendly with other men. she still likes checking out other guys. i caught her several times. and she still has the mindset of blaming me for her indiscretions. 

i already told her many times about this behavior and other things she has to change. not necessarily for me but at least for he rown good. but she told me instead - "...i've always been friendly with other guys ever since we met...what do you want me to become, a nun!?...this is who i am, i am close and friendly with everyone including the opposite sex..."

how do i make her realize and accept that she has to let go? all i can offer her is friendship. 

i will appreciate any inputs and advice on how to get through this nightmare.


----------



## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

You need D her right now she way to gone to think about staying Married her. She is a tramp... And that is what she will always be. She is a broken mess, no way in hell will she repents, she is a serial cheater.

Posted by iPhone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

I read the whole thread before replying so I see the additional information. But even before I saw that I was a BIT uncomfortable with her FB messaging. I thought maybe I am just uptight compared to the other TAMMERS here, but what bothered me about the FB message was not that she was flirting, per se, just putting a lot of energy into maintaining a "friendship" with a member of the OS. She has a husband. What is that about?

With that said, that conversation could have been had with a girlfriend too and would seem benign. It just feels like she's seeking attention. I would not be okay with my husband pursuing that type of friendship with women and I doubt he'd be okay with me doing that with guys. And I don't think I would not have a conversation like that with a guy. But I'm not that social.

I think you need to have a talk and set some ground rules about boundaries and opposite sex friendships.

Also, if she's traveling a lot without you that is a recipe for an affair.


----------



## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

rafaelandy said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> it's been a while since my last post here. i'm posting here again to thank all of you who offered their opinions and advice. i would like to say to those who are seeking answers and advice who might stumble upon on this thread - what these kind people said and advised to me are ACCURATE and SPOT ON.
> 
> ...


OP - There are many of us who have been down this road before you.

You owe it to YOU to draw a line and absolutely stick to it. She has NO respect for you, and that's very clear. You have to let her know in no uncertain terms that you will not become a doormat, and that you quite simply will not be a part of this. You are a major stakeholder in this relationship, and as such, you get to define parameters just as she does. It is NOT a one-way street you're on.

First, you must believe it yourself. You must not just be giving an ultimatum as a bluff. You have to REALLY mean it. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

I can tell you firsthand that you have a really crappy road ahead of you, but it is a short one.....

A relationship that has no respect has nothing - period.


----------



## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

WorkingWife said:


> I read the whole thread before replying so I see the additional information. But even before I saw that I was a BIT uncomfortable with her FB messaging. I thought maybe I am just uptight compared to the other TAMMERS here, but what bothered me about the FB message was not that she was flirting, per se, just putting a lot of energy into maintaining a "friendship" with a member of the OS. She has a husband. What is that about?
> 
> With that said, that conversation could have been had with a girlfriend too and would seem benign. It just feels like she's seeking attention. I would not be okay with my husband pursuing that type of friendship with women and I doubt he'd be okay with me doing that with guys. And I don't think I would not have a conversation like that with a guy. But I'm not that social.
> 
> ...


Completely agree, WW.


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Divorce yesterday. Your WW is batsh!t crazy.

Ask yourself this. If you were single and just met your WW now, and she told you all these things about herself, would you have anything to do with her ?


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

- yes, she travels a lot. she's a flight attendant. i can not trust her anymore especially when she's away. she was proven to be weak when confronted with temptation. 

- yes, we already had numerous talks, and i already said many times that she has to realize, accept, and make deep lasting changes within herself. instead, she becomes defensive, and avoids answering questions directly. she can't even accept the fact that those guys just used her for free sex because of the way she behaved. she believes the guys were all genuinely true and attracted to her. i just gave up on her, i'm tired. i have to let go of her, or else i'll go crazy. i just don't care anymore.

- yes, i already told her about the inappropriateness of the FB message given the circumstances. but she insisted that it was just a "friendly message" and there's nothing wrong about it. she just simply refuses to hear me or perhaps she just doesn't get it.

- yes, i would have never got married to her if i realized what her "friendly to everyone" really meant. 

- yes, i've already attempted to stay in another place but she went after me and put up a scandalous scene that i was forced to go back to her just to avoid and stop her antics. 

guys, how do i make her accept the reality that our marriage is gone? she knows my weakness and she's using it to delay the inevitable. she even shows she's praying hard for our marriage to work out. but i feel this is superficial because she was a regular church goer during her FIRST affair and her subsequent MULTIPLE affairs. she was wearing a crucifix necklace while engaging in those senseless sex encounters. she even had a crucifix tattoo. 

is she still in denial about the bitter truths about her affairs?...that she was jus used by those men?...that she threw it all away for just a few hours of sex?


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

With that mentality you will never leave her and year from now you will still be here instead in a real relationship with someone who would not cheat on you....of course she will use every antics she can, she is a creature of habit and will try everything short of remorse and true love for you to keep you in this marriage....she is making the rules and your going along with it. You are being played.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You stop rolling over when she uses emotional blackmail, and you implement the 180 like it's your job. It really is that simple. 

She doesn't have to get it. Only you do.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## ambulance.girl5 (Jul 6, 2016)

rafaelandy said:


> - yes, she travels a lot. she's a flight attendant. i can not trust her anymore especially when she's away. she was proven to be weak when confronted with temptation.
> 
> - yes, we already had numerous talks, and i already said many times that she has to realize, accept, and make deep lasting changes within herself. instead, she becomes defensive, and avoids answering questions directly. she can't even accept the fact that those guys just used her for free sex because of the way she behaved. she believes the guys were all genuinely true and attracted to her. i just gave up on her, i'm tired. i have to let go of her, or else i'll go crazy. i just don't care anymore.
> 
> ...


Regular church goer does not mean repented, saved Christian. Even Satan can quote the Bible. Unless she repents and stops her "wickedness", you can rightfully assume she is NOT Christian, and her prayers are useless until she turns to God. And YOU have Biblical grounds for divorce due to adultery. 
And you say she causes scenes using your weaknesses and forced you to come back?!?! Honey, I suggest YOU work on those weaknesses and take control of them. No one can force you to be with them. You may have to leave and just deal with her batshxt craziness until it runs it's course. And for the scenes she causea, call the cops...get a DVO. Voila, you'll be free in no time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Rafae,

Sorry to hear you are married to a serial cheater, avoid sex with her as you don't want an STD.

Please get your WW to write out a timeline of these affairs with complete details.

Have her take a polygraph.

Find the spouses of every OM she has been with and expose them. Also expose the pilots to the airlines HR. She will likely hate you for this and leave you.

If you have children get DNA testing.

Tamat


----------



## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

OP - Very succinctly, LEAVE HER, MAN UP and don't look back!

Xenote and Farside both hit the nail squarely on the head - you ARE being played, and she IS using emotional blackmail.

It will suck (I know), but sooner than you would be
lieve, you will feel a freedom that you cannot possibly even understand right now.

Maybe a little harsh sounding, but stop being a DOORMAT and start being a MAN whose life means something to your SELF!!


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

rafaelandy said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> it's been a while since my last post here. i'm posting here again to thank all of you who offered their opinions and advice. i would like to say to those who are seeking answers and advice who might stumble upon on this thread - what these kind people said and advised to me are ACCURATE and SPOT ON.
> 
> ...


Run for the hills She slept with all of those guys and thinks your stupid enough to believe her when she says they just were sleeping. Your not dumb enough to believe that right?

You are married to a serial liar and cheater. You life will not improve until you move on. This person is toxic. OP read up on borderline personality disorder.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

rafaelandy said:


> - yes, she travels a lot. she's a flight attendant. i can not trust her anymore especially when she's away. she was proven to be weak when confronted with temptation.
> 
> - yes, we already had numerous talks, and i already said many times that she has to realize, accept, and make deep lasting changes within herself. instead, she becomes defensive, and avoids answering questions directly. she can't even accept the fact that those guys just used her for free sex because of the way she behaved. she believes the guys were all genuinely true and attracted to her. i just gave up on her, i'm tired. i have to let go of her, or else i'll go crazy. i just don't care anymore.
> 
> ...


Save up so you can get an apartment. Once you have enough, file when she is on one of her trips. Send her a message and say it is over. Then move out, get a restraining order right away. Leave her a message that you have taken out a restraining order and if she creates a scene you will call the cops. Buy a VAR and carry it on you at all times. 

Your wife is very sick, you need to be strong and harsh. You on the other hand have no idea what a crappy situation you have been living in for so long. Live is going to get much better for you my friend.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ambulance.girl5 said:


> Regular church goer does not mean repented, saved Christian. Even Satan can quote the Bible. Unless she repents and stops her "wickedness", you can rightfully assume she is NOT Christian, and her prayers are useless until she turns to God. And YOU have Biblical grounds for divorce due to adultery.
> And you say she causes scenes using your weaknesses and forced you to come back?!?! Honey, I suggest YOU work on those weaknesses and take control of them. No one can force you to be with them. You may have to leave and just deal with her batshxt craziness until it runs it's course. And for the scenes she causea, call the cops...get a DVO. Voila, you'll be free in no time.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


I think if you read on these blogs enough you realize there are plenty of sh!tty Christians. With my experience, when someone tells me they are a Christian, to me that correlates to them being a good person, about as much as them telling me they are left handed.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I guess I shouldn't be but it amazes me that people on here are still pushing the R script. Um why bother. His marriage is a total loss, their is no hope, he even says he wants to end it. He is only asking the best way to do that. Enough with the trying to fix this. The woman has had multiple affairs with multiple men some at the same time. At the very best she is a danger to his health. Seriously how can anyone in good conscience advice this man to try to stay and try to detente with this woman who probably has BPD. 

I thought this place wasn't SI.


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

guys, thank you for all the inputs and advice. 

leaving her outright and never looking back is the simplest and most logical step to do. i can ignore her tantrums and scandalous antics if i'm left with no other choice.

the problem is - there is no divorce in our country. and here's the catch - a "legal" spouse can charge his/her estranged spouse if he/she decides to start a new life and live with someone else. that is why i'm at a loss as to how to convince or make her accept the reality peacefully to let go. 

one advice i got from a friend is to wait for her to "find another man", but this will give her total control again over my fate. there's no assurance when or if she will find another partner.

with her mindset and behaviors, there's a very high probability she will not leave me (and my future partner) in peace.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

can i ask the country ?


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What kind of twisted law is that?

Is there no clause for infidelity? 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Xenote said:


> can i ask the country ?


The Philippines

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/world/asia/philippines-legal-divorce-battle/


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Lila said:


> The Philippines
> 
> The fight to make divorce legal in the Philippines - CNN.com



Thank you Lila, that is amazing...


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

yes - philippines. and here's another thing...when a couple gets married, their "individual" assets (properties, money, etc. ) become "common" assets. in our case, i brought in 80%. this is another reason i'm at a loss as to how to "convince" her to let go amicably and peacefully.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

rafaelandy said:


> guys, thank you for all the inputs and advice.
> 
> leaving her outright and never looking back is the simplest and most logical step to do. i can ignore her tantrums and scandalous antics if i'm left with no other choice.
> 
> ...


And still do you ignore the advice you get the second time around....



> it's been a while since my last post here. i'm posting here again to thank all of you who offered their opinions and advice. i would like to say to those who are seeking answers and advice who might stumble upon on this thread - what these kind people said and advised to me are ACCURATE and SPOT ON.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> What kind of twisted law is that?
> 
> Is there no clause for infidelity?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Probably because it is a largely Catholic country. No divorce.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Rafae,

So what pain have you inflicted on the OMs? Since you can't divorce.

Tamat


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Rafe,

your definitely between a rock and a hard place.

seeing that your wife will continue her exploits to some degree
you can't divorce and even the new laws proposed does not help you
and you have more to lose even if you did get divorce

this is one of those times when i i recommend that if you can't beat them join them, find someone who makes you happy and spend as much time with them.


----------



## rafaelandy (May 8, 2013)

- yes, my gut instinct and the advice i got from here were right - her behaviors were hot red signals that she was engaged in EAs, PAs. as per the advice i got here, i pressed for answers for her inconsistencies...eventually i got it, with more inconsistencies (trickle truths).

- yes, one of my initial reactions was to find out who these men were to expose them. i attempted to report one of them (bellhop) to their manager, but they just ignored me. confronting them was a disadvantage for me because she had affairs in different countries with different men. i'm not going to risk myself for worthless people like them. with that, i just concentrated on enduring the pain and deal with it. i'll be just wasting my time and effort seeking revenge. i realized nobody can help me get through this but myself. and so i did. i let her and our marriage go. 

- yes, i thought about it - finding someone else...but i thought it will never be complete happiness unless i am truly free from her. it will not be fair to my (new) partner if there's always the danger of being "caught" and dragged into a scandal. even if we (new partner) go and hide somewhere, there will always be that danger. she (wife) has threatened that she will never set me free - she will not allow me to be happy - she will not let me be in peace if i leave her - if she's gonna be miserable, i will also be miserable. 

at present, i'm just pretending that all is "okay". i just want to have peace while i'm thinking and finding a way to get out. that is why i'm here at TAM - to seek advice.


----------

