# Thinking about divorce



## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Hello, everyone. First time poster, here. Honestly, I feel a little awkward spilling my guts on a forum like this, but I find myself in need of impartial feedback on my current situation, and frankly would enjoy venting some of my problems.

My wife and I have been together for about ten years. Like any relationship, we had our ups and downs, but we powered through and were stronger for it. That is, up until a couple of years ago. To give a frame of reference, my wife has always been a bit of a self-serving personality. By that, I mean she was never the type to go out of her way to do things for me or to inquire about me. This never really bothered me overly much because I've always enjoyed being the giver of the relationship, and have found happiness from it, so we were a pretty good team. It wasn't until she started hanging out with some new friends about two years ago that some of her more self-serving tendencies began hurting our relationship.

It started with alcohol. She's always been an all-or-nothing kind of drinker, but she didn't drink often enough that her binges were much of an obstacle in our relationship. That changed when she started hanging out with this new group. They are all single, I'm sure with good reason, and live your typical young, single existence. It's a mix of both guys and girls, and I feel both have been a bad influence for her. One of the girls has become her best friend and has a pretty awful and abusive outlook on men in general, while the guys are overly familiar with her, and I have no doubt would sleep with her if given the opportunity. She enjoys that kind of attention, and she knows it hurts me deeply.

Getting back on track, a couple of years ago, while she was in one of her more alcoholic swings, she began having inappropriate text and email exchanges with one of these guys. I'm somewhat ashamed to say, I found this out by snooping. She had been talking dirty and sending this guy nude images of herself so that he could masturbate to her. Needless to say, this combined with our already failing relationship drove me to the point that I was ready to call it quits. I confronted her in a rage, and was ready to storm out and never look back, but she started making promises. She promised she would quit drinking outside of special occasions with me. She promised she would cut all ties with the guy she had been texting. She promised she would stop hanging out with other men unless it was a group setting. She promised she would reinvest herself in our relationship, and spend more time with me. I believed her and stayed. She kept her promises for about two weeks.

Flash forward, things were better for a while, but have been slowly but surely declining over the last two years. I've realized recently that much of what I thought were things actually being better, was her just getting better at lying to me. Her alcoholism has once again gotten to a point where it's impossible for her to hide it from me, and I feel like I'm just waiting around for the other shoe to drop. We recently had a deep heart-felt conversation about the whole thing in which she, once again, made a bunch of promises to me in regards to alcohol. She went out and got drunk that very night.

I spend most of the time hating myself for not being stronger. I look her in the eyes while she lies to me over and over again and know it for what it is, but there is always this glimmer in the back of my mind that says "maybe this time she really means it". Of course, that's never the case. She refuses to admit she has a problem, and therefore refuses to get help.

She still spends a lot of time with single men in a manner that she knows makes me doubt myself. She goes on ski trips all the time where she stays in the same hotel room with these guys, and has even reverted back to spending one-on-one time with some of them. She seems incapable of understanding how this makes me feel, and only acts sympathetic to my feelings on the matter when she knows I'm about to lose it. She has become so good at manipulating me, I don't even know how to talk to her about such things anymore.

Wow, didn't mean to write a novel. I could go on, but I should wrap it up. If you've made it this far, thanks for your time. I guess I'm just looking for some impartial feedback to let me know that I'm not being crazy. I don't want to be one of those overly-jealous types that stamps out all happiness in their attempts to control everything, but at the same time I am terribly unhappy, and my wife doesn't seem to care as long as I'm not on her back about it. She wants to be married when she's with me, and single when she's not, and I simply can't go on like this anymore. I feel I've put in more time than most would trying to fix this, but she holds all the cards, and I'm thinking of getting out. Thoughts?


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Samsung said:


> I spend most of the time hating myself for not being stronger.
> 
> *Hating yourself is a waste of time and energy. Do something about it. Just BE stronger and speak up for yourself. You've done it before.*
> 
> ...


She probably have a sugar high on the amount of cake she allowed to eat. 

One thing, though, unless I missed it -- Kind of obvious that you want to fix this but you just don't say how you feel about her. Do you love her? How is your sex life?


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> She probably have a sugar high on the amount of cake she allowed to eat.
> 
> One thing, though, unless I missed it -- Kind of obvious that you want to fix this but you just don't say how you feel about her. Do you love her? How is your sex life?


Thank you for responding, Committed. Yes, I still love her, and when she makes time for me between binges and outings with her friends, we still make each-other happy. I guess it would be a lot easier if that weren't the case.

Sex has been on the decline, but admittedly that is mostly my fault. I simply don't find her attractive when she is either drunk or hungover, which she typically is when around the house these days.

I may have given the wrong impression when I said she stays in hotel rooms with those guys. I mean she stays in the same room as a group, but I still feel it's inappropriate for her to be sleeping in a room with other men when I'm not there. It seems like that is just asking for something to happen. On a similar note, she stays over at one of these guys houses from time to time since he lives near the ski slope. She always stresses that her girlfriend stays their with her to ease my mind, but it definitely leaves a lot of room for doubt.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

You don't have a wife.

Divorce her and move on.

For Christs sake don't get her pregnant.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

tacoma said:


> You don't have a wife.
> 
> Divorce her and move on.
> 
> For Christs sake don't get her pregnant.


Thankfully, there are no kids in the picture, just a cat and dog I would very much hate leaving. You're advice is well taken. Thanks for chiming in, Tacoma.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

Another ski bunny story. Been written many times. The ending is always the same. 

Leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Samsung leaving really truly is the best route for you to take I believe.

You're young, childless, and have light investment materially in this marriage but if you're that into self flagellation I'll play along.

Your wife has zero respect for you.
She does not love/desire you because she has zero respect for you.

If you want your wife back you need to gain/earn her respect back if she ever held it in the first place.
This is the only way she will even be able to love you again.

If you want to re-gain your wife's respect go here and read this stuff.

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

Seriously, even if it doesn't get your wife back it'll put you in a much better position to make the next relationship work.

Also, if you want the best possible support to get your wife back I'd have this thread moved to the Mens Clubhouse a couple levels up as there are people there who are in your shoes.

The Men's Clubhouse

PM a MOD to have it moved or simply post your desire to have it moved here and I'll PM a MOD for you.


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

Samsung, I'm so sorry for the pain I hear in your story. It's hard for a marriage when only one spouse is putting work into it. She absolutely needs some boundaries. Does she realize you are considering divorce again? She didn't take you seriously the first time you talked about divorce or she just doesn't care. You need to talk again and let her know you are serious. At this point, it doesn't really sound like a marriage. Have you tried MC?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Samsung, I tend to think this has moved too far to fix it now but you need to make sure you don't fall into these dynamics again. There are alot of intolerable things going on. You need to treat yourself better and set boundaries before it get's this far. If you set boundaries (like you can't hang with singles get drunk) and she does it anyway then that's when to split up. I think she would have resisted but then upon a short split or something would come back with lots of new respect for you.

The bottom line is you are worth being treated with respect and you have to be the one to know you deserve it and you have to be the one to not settle for less.

Read "No More Mr Nice Guy". I bet there are parts that will strike a nerve. Good luck. You may be able to regain this relationship but it won't happen unless you flat out stop allowing yourself to be treated poorly.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

She's a cake eater, serial cheater (did that rhyme?) She's not marriage material I'm afraid. She is using and abusing you. (I should be a rapper) seriously wasn't trying to make those rhyme....

I've been where you are many times...my H is a cake eater...not so much now, but time will tell if he still is

Does she tear your heart out of your chest every time? I'm sure she does. Does it make her stop? No. = cake eater


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Thoreau said:


> Another ski bunny story. Been written many times. The ending is always the same.
> 
> Leave.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for your candor, Thoreau.



tacoma said:


> Samsung leaving really truly is the best route for you to take I believe.
> 
> You're young, childless, and have light investment materially in this marriage but if you're that into self flagellation I'll play along.
> 
> ...


I am starting to truly believe that you are correct. I suppose I've known she has had no respect for me for a long time now, I've just had trouble making the mental leap required to do something about it. Part of me wants to move across the country, start fresh, and meet a young lady who'll actually be content with what I have to give, while another part doesn't want to lose the ten years I've put into this relationship. I suppose this being the first time I've talked about it with anyone, I've not had a frame of reference outside my own.

I placed this thread here because I thought I would get a more well rounded opinion from both sexes. I was hoping to get feedback from both sides of the fence.

PS. Is it fair that I should have to endure emoticons laughing at me while I bare my soul?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> She's a cake eater, serial cheater (did that rhyme?) She's not marriage material I'm afraid. She is using and abusing you. (I should be a rapper) seriously wasn't trying to make those rhyme....
> 
> I've been where you are many times...my H is a cake eater...not so much now, but time will tell if he still is
> 
> Does she tear your heart out of your chest every time? I'm sure she does. Does it make her stop? No. = cake eater


Agreed. And Samsung needs to work on himself so he doesn't gravitate toward another fixer-upper. Otherwise he may fall into the common theme of chasing after people who are unavailable or who need fixing for some reason (like serial cheaters) over and over. He (everyone) deserves better than that.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

This isn't just about cake-eating, deception, partying, and/or hanging with an inappropriate crowd. It's about addiction; specifically, alcoholism.

Okay, I'm going to say this because I have lived in the laa-laa land of insanity. Please, DO NOT take this as an insult, or that I am the grand guru of addictions ... but many of you well-meaning folks are what we call "normies." A "normie" wouldn't understand the progressive nature of alcoholism, nor would they be familiar with the downslide into insanity that is part and parcel when living with an addict. And when I say "downslide" I mean the crazy behavior that becomes part of everyone's life in such an environment. 

Samsung, I cannot be impartial. I've lived with two alcoholics in my life. I also have family members who were A's. Yes, I CAN be detached, and thus somewhat impartial, when it comes to how I choose to handle any given situation with an A, but it took me a long time to remove my emotions from the equation.

Alcoholics lie. Alcoholics take the focus off themselves by blaming anyone and anything for their behaviors. Alcoholics indulge in outrageous, crazy-making behavior. Alcoholics don't give a rat's a$$ about who they hurt, as long as they can get to party with fellow-A's. That is simply the way IT IS.

My husband didn't cheat on me, nor did he go out partying with a bunch of other drunks. He chose to isolate and drink alone. But that didn't keep him from doing things that were so off-the-wall, they would set your head spinning.

So, Samsung, quit being a doormat. Set boundaries. Enforce them. If she wants to live like a single gal, then let her do so. But let her know that if that is the route she chooses, she is history. And, as an aside, if she decides to get some sort of "help" to keep you around, let her know that you want to see a year of RECOVERY, not just abstinence from drinking.

You deserve a helluva lot better than what you have now.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

And my caveat about "normies"? 

A normie doesn't check the NyQuil bottle to see if someone (as in the alkie), has been drinking from it ... when nobody in the house has a cold.

A normie doesn't accept that their partner is taking a couple days off work because the dog has fleas. (Yes, a REAL alcoholic I know used this excuse - honest!)

A normie doesn't have to let the air out of their partner's tires to keep them from driving drunk ... again.

A normie doesn't have to look beyond bad behavior for what it is ... simply, bad behavior.

A normie doesn't have to make excuses for above-mentioned bad behavior. The alcoholism is sufficient bad behavior itself.

A normie doesn't have to buy into believing that the latest vomiting/diarrhea bout is due to a virus. (Those of us who live with alcoholics call it the "brown bottle flu.")

Just some of the insanity that normies don't think about .... because they don't have to live with the daily insanity of alcoholism - an EQUAL-OPPORTUNITY DESTROYER.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Firefly: Yes, I made it clear that divorce was on the horizon. I told her that I needed to see real and lasting changes in her drinking habits, or I was gone. She cried and said she didn't want to lose me. She got drunk that night. I do not think MC would do any good until she gets a handle on her addiction.

Thundarr: Thanks for all your suggestions. Yes, I do feel I deserve better, and your words have helped convince me of this. I will look into the book you mentioned.

Somethingelse: you are a word-smith, and yes, it hurts like hell when she treats me that way, and no it doesn't stop her.

Prodigal: I've been hoping to hear from someone who has gone through this (specifically the alcoholism). I can't help but feel that alcohol is the root cause of our problems, but she refuses to admit that the problem is there. It leaves me with little hope, because everything I read states that there is nothing I can do for her. Until she comes to terms with the fact she has no control once she's had that first drink, we cannot move forward. I'm determined that if I could get her to stay sober, she would see much of her behavior for what it is, but maybe that is wishful thinking.


Sorry for the out of order responses, everyone. Apparently the site has some filters in place to keep newbs from posting too much. All of your feedback is very much appreciated.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Samsung said:


> I'm determined that if I could get her to stay sober, she would see much of her behavior for what it is, but maybe that is wishful thinking.


Samsung, you break my heart. And I'm pretty much a hard-a$$ in most of my responses on TAM. But I hear you so clearly. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say that.

Honey, your determination is admirable. I know you love her. But it is her determination alone that will get her sober and keep her sober. 

If we could love, or determine, our alcoholics into sobriety, there would be no need for treatment facilities or A.A. And even if she stops drinking, without a recovery program in place, you will have a "dry drunk" and all the stinkin' thinkin' that comes with it.

If you want me to point you in the direction of an Internet forum that is targeted just for addicts and the family/friends of addicts, send me a P.M., and I'll send you the address.

Great love and good thoughts coming your way ... I understand what you're dealing with.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Just want to say that everyone has been great so far. I'm really starting to feel confident that it's in my best interest to stop sacrificing my own happiness in order to prop up a marriage that can't possibly last as-is.

Frankly though, I was kind of hoping for a glimmer of hope. Has no one managed turn such a situation around? Is there really no hope? It's really only within the last two years that things have gotten off track. I keep thinking that there must be a way to fix it. I know it must sound somewhat pitiful that I'd still want to fix things, but I do still love her very much, and divorce is a last resort scenario for me. It is certainly a step I feel more willing to take after getting feedback from you guys, but only if there is no fixing things.


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## NewM (Apr 11, 2012)

Samsung said:


> I may have given the wrong impression when I said she stays in hotel rooms with those guys. I mean she stays in the same room as a group, but I still feel it's inappropriate for her to be sleeping in a room with other men when I'm not there. It seems like that is just asking for something to happen. On a similar note, she stays over at one of these guys houses from time to time since he lives near the ski slope. *She always stresses that her girlfriend stays their with her to ease my mind*, but it definitely leaves a lot of room for doubt.


She is just using this girlfriend as cover up.

Divorce takes about 6-12 months to finalize so you should serve her the papers immediately.Nothing else will show her that you are serious about this because she can just lie to you and still go to trips and sleep in same room with bunch of single people.You can always cancel divorce process if she fixes herself up.

There should be no more going out/ski trips/getting drunk without you at all.Serving her divorce papers will show you if she wants to be with you,and she stops all that single behaviors,or not.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Sorry you're here with under these circumstances, Samsung. 

Sadly, you can't fix her problems. You can only fix your problems. You can set personal boundaries for what you're willing to tolerate. If she can't respect them, then you must enforce them. Otherwise you enable her behavior and she will continue. A tough love approach, as to say. That's why D is mentioned by others to show a consequence to her behavior. Your postings reveal you are really close to that. I can't say that other methods will work now. I do understand that you need to do what makes you feel you've done your best to exhaust all options. The problem is there are very few, and they all include boundaries with consequences. 

Try the forum Prodigal recommends, She has given you good advice. 
Find a meeting here too, Welcome to Al-Anon Family Groups You will be welcomed.

Yet you need to remember you play a part in this drama too. Though you can not change the way she acts, you may not be as effective as you could be. Let me give you this reading, that has been suggested. 

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Samsung said:


> Part of me wants to move across the country, start fresh, and meet a young lady who'll actually be content with what I have to give, while another part doesn't want to lose the ten years I've put into this relationship. I suppose this being the first time I've talked about it with anyone, I've not had a frame of reference outside my own.
> 
> I placed this thread here because I thought I would get a more well rounded opinion from both sexes. I was hoping to get feedback from both sides of the fence.


Here's one from the other side of the fence who just got divorced after 23 years of marriage. He was an alcoholic. You are on the losing end of a long and terrible battle if you continue on like you have. Read my story and learn from it and then RUN AWAY as fast as you can: 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/62612-after-2-years-its-finally-going-happen.html

You've invested 10 years in this marriage and it stinks. So WHY do you think investing another 10 years is going to change anything? Will it be better if you drag kids into this mix? Now you CAN pack up and leave and start fresh. Bring kids into it or get more emotionally involved and that doesn't become an option. 

So call it a day, pack it up and leave. It's only a relationship if both sides are invested in it. 

If you step in dog sh!t, you don't smell it, examine it and wonder if it's bad, you scrap it off and keep walking. Time to take this mindset with regards to your marriage. Consider yourself a lucky guy to have the option to do so. 

BTW, I filed in January and was divorced by April 1st. Total cost was $275. No lawyers involved. It doesn't have to be that big a deal. Now I'm MUCH happier without my ex husband and his toxicity, his drama and his damn alcoholism ruining my life.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> Alcoholics lie. Alcoholics take the focus off themselves by blaming anyone and anything for their behaviors. Alcoholics indulge in outrageous, crazy-making behavior. Alcoholics don't give a rat's a$$ about who they hurt, as long as they can get to party with fellow-A's. That is simply the way IT IS.
> 
> My husband didn't cheat on me, nor did he go out partying with a bunch of other drunks. He chose to isolate and drink alone. But that didn't keep him from doing things that were so off-the-wall, they would set your head spinning..


That pretty much summed it up for me and my situation. And now he's history. BEST thing I ever did was file for divorce. Should've done it years ago.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Samsung said:


> Frankly though, I was kind of hoping for a glimmer of hope. Has no one managed turn such a situation around? Is there really no hope? It's really only within the last two years that things have gotten off track. I keep thinking that there must be a way to fix it. I know it must sound somewhat pitiful that I'd still want to fix things, but I do still love her very much, and divorce is a last resort scenario for me. It is certainly a step I feel more willing to take after getting feedback from you guys, but only if there is no fixing things.


This is how you fix this, if it can be fixed....



tacoma said:


> You're young, childless, and have light investment materially in this marriage but if you're that into self flagellation I'll play along.
> 
> Your wife has zero respect for you.
> She does not love/desire you because she has zero respect for you.
> ...


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Samsung said:


> , my wife has always been a bit of a self-serving personality. By that, I mean she was never the type to go out of her way to do things for me or to inquire about me. This never really bothered me overly much because I've always enjoyed being the giver of the relationship, and have found happiness from it, so we were a pretty good team.


After the divorce I hope you re-think this. I did the same thing. People are happy to take advantage of that.

It's a lot nicer being married to someone who reciprocates.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm reminded of something a counselor once told me....

"You cannot change a person, you have to let them feel their own pain."

Dude....get the hell out. If I caught my wife sending some dirtbag sext messages, her stuff would be on the curb that night. End of story. I respect myself way too much to tolerate that and pipe dream promises.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Samsung,

Sorry to hear about your situation but to be honest with you most folks with addiction problems like alcoholism are just heartbreak after heartbreak and they never change unless the liver goes out and they take a dirt nap (too late) or they hit rock bottom and have a "Come to Jesus" moment. Yes some do change when divorce is in their face but you have to be strong enough to walk away if things don't change. Either way you really need to think about your life and legacy are going to be moving forward. Want kids? Want to be happy? Is she still marriage material?


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## SalvageMyMarriage (Apr 6, 2013)

Samsung said:


> Just want to say that everyone has been great so far. I'm really starting to feel confident that it's in my best interest to stop sacrificing my own happiness in order to prop up a marriage that can't possibly last as-is.
> 
> Frankly though, I was kind of hoping for a glimmer of hope. Has no one managed turn such a situation around? Is there really no hope? It's really only within the last two years that things have gotten off track. I keep thinking that there must be a way to fix it. I know it must sound somewhat pitiful that I'd still want to fix things,* but I do still love her very much, and divorce is a last resort scenario for me.* It is certainly a step I feel more willing to take after getting feedback from you guys, but only if there is no fixing things.


Samsung, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Can I check if she still loves you? You said she still makes time for you despite her binges?

I think you should give your marriage another try. No harm since you've been trying for the past 2 times? But this time, during your heart-to-heart talk, get her to commit to going for marriage counselling sessions and rehab sessions for alcoholism. Commit your time to accompany her for the rehab sessions to show that you still truly care for her. 

Try to work it out again? Will be a pity to let her go after 10 years of marriage.

Good luck!


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I'm reminded of something a counselor once told me....
> 
> "You cannot change a person, you have to let them feel their own pain."
> 
> Dude....get the hell out. If I caught my wife sending some dirtbag sext messages, her stuff would be on the curb that night. End of story. I respect myself way too much to tolerate that and pipe dream promises.


I agree and furthermore I would have sent the guy a picture of my penis and said thank you for liberating him for a more worthy creature. Good luck with ex!


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

SalvageMyMarriage said:


> Samsung, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Can I check if she still loves you? You said she still makes time for you despite her binges?
> 
> I think you should give your marriage another try. No harm since you've been trying for the past 2 times? But this time, during your heart-to-heart talk, get her to commit to going for marriage counselling sessions and rehab sessions for alcoholism. Commit your time to accompany her for the rehab sessions to show that you still truly care for her.
> 
> ...



Sent nude pics to another man?more than likely PA's and EA's and she's a drunk? Let her get clean on the OM dime.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

You seem to think you can "fix" her. 
You cant. 
She can only fix herself. 
You cant love her enough to fix her, because she doesnt love herself enough to change. 

-closet alcoholic speaking, and thats just how it is. She aint gonna change for you. Shes only going to change for one person. And if she cant do that, it does not matter what you do or say. And that, my friend, is the harsh and ugly truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

naga75 said:


> You seem to think you can "fix" her.
> You cant.
> She can only fix herself.
> You cant love her enough to fix her, because she doesnt love herself enough to change.
> ...


THIS is the stone cold truth, the very heart of the matter here. I have been watching my ex husband battle with his addict/PD wife, and he is determined that he is going to fix her, come hell or high water. She just finished rehab, after other half assed attempts at it, and the only reason she did it was she felt he was making her do it. Only time will tell if she actually puts in the work to fix herself. I think she is only placating him for now.

He left me to go back to her in August, she was still a cocaine addict and a drunk, and was still sleeping with the same men she had been since before they "reconciled". She has tried to kill herself no fewer than four times since September. One time their 14 yr old son had to break through the bathroom door to get to her during one of these ridiculous attempts. (this is how she garners his sympathy so he wont kick her out) She manipulated and lied to go out and get high and have sex with these other men. But since they have such a "history" together, he chooses to stay and let her abuse him and their kids, determined that one day it will be better because he deems it so. I have felt like a broken record, saying she can only fix herself, its up to her, no one else. Seeing him try to live in the past is really sickening.

I just thought I'd put this out there for you so you can have an outsider's view of YOUR situation. I would suggest you read Codependent No More, by Melanie Beatty. It is very eye opening, and you will see yourself in every page. I hope you find the strength to remove yourself from this situation.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Just to be clear: even though it was not stated directly once, serial cheating is understood here, right? I mean, "acting single" and "partying with single men", and "going away on overnight ski trips with single men", and "spending one-on-one time with single men", and...Well, you get my point. Are all code for she's sleeping with these guys, right? The OP knows this...

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that the OP thinks all of those are purely inappropriate boundaries and not the red banners that they are, pointing to obvious infidelity.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Well, I sat my wife down and had a talk last-night. I made it clear that there was going to be no more compromises on the things I expected from our marriage. We talked extensively about her relationships with other men and her addiction to alcohol, as well as a couple of other minor details that aren't worth mentioning. I stressed that there would be no more half measures, and if she failed to meet my expectations on these points, it would mean divorce. She seemed to understand and take it seriously. She also agreed that her behavior had been unfair to me, and had been the leading cause of much of our marital woes over the last couple of years. She maintains that she hasn't had any inappropriate involvement with any of the men, but came clean about much of her alcohol problems. Frankly, I believe her. I know many of you will think I'm a rube for doing so, but it's the way it is.

I also realize that many of you felt the best path for me was to cut my losses and run, but I just couldn't in good conscience without giving our marriage one more chance. I find I'm cautiously optimistic since our conversation. It wasn't our normal argument where she fought and tried to turn everything around on me so I was to blame. She seemed to think long and hard about the changes she was going to have to make, and even at one point had me thinking she would rather chose divorce over cutting ties with some of her male friends. Although this hurt my feelings, it did make me feel like she was taking what I said seriously, and that she realized there was no longer any room for both things in her life.

Time will tell if this is a turning point for us, and if history repeats itself, it won't be very long until I know which way we are going. As much as I hope to get back my wife, I'm prepared for the alternative, thanks in no small part to the all of you on this forum.

@Thundarr I began reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" yesterday (thanks for the link @Anchorwatch), and you were correct in assuming it strikes close to home. I am not very far into it yet, but already feel that it is going to help me recognize some self destructive behavior in myself. Thanks very much for all the advice and the book suggestion.

@NewM That is the next step if things don't go exactly as I want, though if it comes to divorce I don't think there will be any need to serve papers. Despite the drama, we are both pretty level headed people, and she would go along with divorce if I said I wanted it.

@Anchorwatch I take your meaning, and agree that I have been enabling her. I have suggested that we seek help for her addiction, but she insists it's not to that point. Time will tell... Thanks again for the book link.

@Freak_On_a_Leash I have been reading your story, and my heart goes out to you. I know you meant it as a cautionary tale, and it is well taken. I will make sure to take care of myself in what's to come.

@Tacoma I haven't forgotten what you said, and have been looking at the links you sent. The webpage you suggested and the book recommended by others seems to go hand in hand on several points. I am beginning to realize that I can't expect my wife to respect me if I do not respect myself. Although this seems like a simple concept, it has been a wake-up call for me, and I assure you I am reading and educating myself on the things I must do to take control of my own happiness. Your input has been invaluable. 

@Wiserforit I take your meaning. You might very well be correct, but I can't help but hope my wife proves to be the exception. 

@Diesel_Bomber Point taken. It was not an easy thing to get through, and if I'm being honest it still chafes at me from time to time.

@Sanity I do realize that this working out favorably for me is a long shot, but I do finally feel in a mental place where I am ready to walk away if I don't get what I want. Since talking to you fine people, I've realized that what I'm asking for is the least that anyone would expect out of a relationship, and I am ready to start demanding it.

@SalvageMyMarriage This is my way of thinking, which is why I decided to give it one more shot. Frankly, I don't see us going to marriage counseling, and she refuses to seek help for her addiction. Let's hope she's up to the task.

@naga75 I appreciate the input. It is my hope that she is in a place where she wants to fix herself. I am prepared to walk away if she's not.

@3Xnocharm That is a sad story. I will look into the book you suggested once I've finished "No More Mr. Nice Guy".

@MrK I assure you, since joining this forum her behavior has become "red banners", but admit to having felt like I was being overly sensitive in the past. And yes, I believe serial cheating is an appropriate way to describe her tendencies. Let's hope she is capable of change.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

If you're going to give this a shot then keep posting here Samsung.

I think you could use the support.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

tacoma said:


> If you're going to give this a shot then keep posting here Samsung.
> 
> I think you could use the support.


Agreed, Tacoma. I don't think I'm out of the woods yet.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Samsung, 

I and most of the others don't mean for you to make the decision to 'cut and run'. We hope for you to make a stand for your marriage. Then your wife will have to make her decision as to what she will do, knowing what your boundaries are. That's just what you did. You took the first step in the attempt to save your marriage. Bully for you.

As for her not recognizing or denying being to that point yet. Alcoholics usually don't. I still suggest you attend a meting, or at least research the subject. There are many types of alcoholism, they all take their toll. Is Al-Anon for you?

You recognize you have a lot on your plate right now. This was caused by not having the knowledge about how to act or react to situations. What ever the out come, you will be better for it in the end, because now you will have gained more knowledge about how these behaviors affect our relationships. There is much to be learned here.

ttys


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Well, if your wife is a bona fide alcoholic, you will know soon enough. She will start hiding bottles around the house. Don't go looking for them, but just be prepared if you find one. She will stop drinking, but the alcoholic behaviors and mindset will remain; in other words, she'll pull a dry drunk. She'll go out and have "just one" while maintaining she can control her drinking. That is the real tragedy of alcoholism; alcoholics will persist for years believing they can control their drinking. Magical thinking.

As we say in A.A. and Al-Anon, more will be revealed. I sincerely hope that things work out. But I want to give you a warning, based on many years experience with addiction: Don't keep sitting her down for any further discussions.

She knows where you stand. Leave what is on her side of the street on her side of the street. Make no attempts to control what she is going to do vis-à-vis her drinking. The 3 C's: You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.

I wish you the best.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Samsung said:


> Agreed, Tacoma. I don't think I'm out of the woods yet.


Out of the woods? :slap: You haven't even begun your journey. Good luck to you because you are going to need it. 

Whatever you do, don't get her pregnant. Forgive me if I'm not optimistic but having "been there, done that" I think you are walking the path of futility but I guess it's something you gotta do. You'll figure it out, hopefully sooner than later.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> Well, if your wife is a bona fide alcoholic, you will know soon enough. She will start hiding bottles around the house.


Me ex hid them in his car, in his kayak, in the coffee mugs/cups, in the garage, in the basement, in the attic. You name a hiding spot, he hid it there. 

Oh yeah, and he went into the hospital and then detox and rehab FOUR TIMES in 2.5 years. Same pattern every single time.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Oh yeah, and he went into the hospital and then detox and rehab FOUR TIMES in 2.5 years. Same pattern every single time.


I year ya. I lived through it myself. My H went through three rehab facilities in five years. The only reason it took him so long to wash-rinse-repeat is the Army sent him to Iraq for a year during that period. No booze there!

And I understand what you are telling Samsung. His journey hasn't even started. But learning to live with an A is an education, which begins with having a sense of hope. Hope the A will dry out, see the light, get sane, stop drinking.

Samsung, I hope you return to this thread. You believe that "we" can lick this, "we" can conquer the bad behaviors and excessive drinking, "we" can start to get out of the woods.

Alcoholism recovery is an inside job. It starts with the A looking inside. You are not capable, or responsible, for taking an inventory of your wife's insides. Please, step away from the alcoholic.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> IBut learning to live with an A is an education.


IMO, the only way to live with an alcoholic is to STOP living with him. I have never regretted that decision. He destroyed everything he came in contact with. My life and those of my children are better without him. Now he can deal with his own crap in his own way.

You are correct in that there is no "we". There is only the alcoholic. It's entirely up the alcoholic to take care of his/her own business and issues. 

I jumped off that crazy train before it ran off the rails and took us all down with it. Never again.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

I can already see the writing on the wall......its not going to change. Addicts are used to being liars and have zero intent on changing. Just long enough to see if you'll keep coming back for more.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Samsung----if you wanna give her one more shot---this is what you do

1st she checks into an IN-HOUSE alcohol treatment center, for at least 60 days---followed by AA meetings, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK

2nd she signs a POST--NUP AGREEMENT

3rd she agrees to go NC---with all of her single friends, male and female----when she gets out of treatment, her only friends WILL BE OTHER MARRIED COUPLES

4th---She is transparent about EVERYTHING---she will not be on any SOCIAL WEBSITES, and she will not text anyone---all contact will be by phone calls, where the phone # will be logged and ID'd

As to you---you go on-line, and google your state legal forms----go to Divorce packet, and print it out-----have it right there in your hand, so she can see it---when you make the above 4 demands

She does not get to argue/discuss/fight about/change any of the 4 demands---if so tell her you will fill out and file the papers, w/in the next week-------when you do the above---you do it with ICY CALM----and then you leave for a few hours, just go visit someone---or drive around, go watch a ballgame---leave her to think about it---but before you leave---you TELL HER, when you come home if you find her drunk, or not at home---D is to be filed as you said above immediately.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Yes she's an alcoholic. And yes, that is her biggest problem that needs fixing. But it looks like she's going to get a free pass on the infidelity. 

She will not BELIEVE her good fortune on that.

Wasn't it the man she was getting inappropriate emails who's house she was having sleepovers at?


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

Samsung said:


> ...she began having inappropriate text and email exchanges with one of these guys. I'm somewhat ashamed to say, I found this out by snooping. * She had been talking dirty and sending this guy nude images of herself so that he could masturbate to her* ...
> 
> She still spends a lot of time with single men in a manner that she knows makes me doubt myself. She goes on ski trips all the time where *she stays in the same hotel room with these guys*, and has even reverted back to spending one-on-one time with some of them


She has already left the marriage ...and you. She obviously prefers the single life again, and at risk of losing some of her "Have her cake and eat it too" benefits, behaves only when called out about it. Otherwise she slips back to her old, more desired behavior. More desired for her, that is.

She wants to be single and in fact, she already is. She's gone, and you need to cut yourself loose from this cheating liar. Save yourself.

And, BTW, welcome


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

MrK said:


> Yes she's an alcoholic. And yes, that is her biggest problem that needs fixing. But it looks like she's going to get a free pass on the infidelity.
> 
> She will not BELIEVE her good fortune on that.
> 
> Wasn't it the man she was getting inappropriate emails who's house she was having sleepovers at?


I couldn't agree more. Sleep overs when nothing was happening......yeah right.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I think Samsung---knows she is spreading her legs, and has done so many times---he is just gonna turn a blind eye-----

Its his life, and his misery to deal with-----sure the best way to start to have a life AGAIN---would be to D., this lying, cheating, manipulating SHAM of a wife---but once again---its his life----he just might need to get knocked down 5 or 6 times before he finally figures it all out


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

@Prodigal I hear what you're saying and it jives with much I read about alcoholics. I've said my peace, and the ball's in her court now. I don't intend to have anymore conversations about it. She gets better or I'm gone.

@FreakOnALeash It sounds like you had a tough run of it, and I appreciate your skepticism. You may very well end up being right about all of it. I may end up just losing more of my time and dignity in futility, but I do not think I could live with myself without giving it this last shot. I hope you'll understand and have patience with me. I'll need all the help I can get if this goes south.

@Diesel_Bomber I appreciate your input, and can only hope that, in this one case at least, you are wrong.

@jnjExpress Lots of good advice. As I said, she has already claimed to not need outside help for her alcohol problem. She knows what's at risk if she fails, and I think that's as far as I'm willing to push it. As I've said, I do not believe she has been "spreading her legs" for anyone but me, but understand your skepticism. From an outside perspective, I realize that everyone on this forum only sees the very worst in my wife, because that's all I've given you to go on. I also realize that many of you are speaking from personal hurt, and are attempting to protect me from any further pain of my own. I assure you, I am doing my best to be rational and careful as I move forward. I'll be taking better care of myself from here on out, and if it comes to light that you are correct about her infidelity, I will not hesitate to move on.

@MrK Yes, I forgave her for her actions with that guy a couple of years ago. I don't know that I'd call it a free pass, but to some I'm sure it seems that way. No, this is not the same guy. Cutting ties with that guy a couple of years ago was the one promise she did keep (I'm just now realizing I should have specified that earlier). As I've said, I may be gullible, but I believe her when she says there has been no further inappropriate conduct with other men.

@Terry_CO Thanks, Terry. I can only hope that our current situation is more fixable than you make it sound, but time may prove you right.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Samsung said:


> As I said, she has already claimed to not need outside help for her alcohol problem.


Well, then, she doesn't think her problem is much of a problem. However, it's a problem for you. Just be prepared to make good on your threat if she picks up again. I gave my husband three chances at rehab. The third one was NOT the charm. After that, I walked.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Samsung said:


> As I said, she has already claimed to not need outside help for her alcohol problem.


:banghead: :slap: :lol:  :rofl: Yeah, right. How many times did I hear THAT in the past 3 years! 

Oh yeah..and the whole thing about being faithful to you: Never underestimate the ability of an alcoholic to LIE. My ex lied about EVERYTHING. He lied about going to work, paying the bills, what loans he took out, what he bought and when. He even told everyone he had pancreatic cancer! They lie to manipulate, to gain sympathy, to gain time and to keep on having their affair with the bottle. 

It's just a matter of when YOU will figure it out and decide to end it all. Better sooner than later.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Samsung said:


> I believe her when she says there has been no further inappropriate conduct with other men.


I find that impossible to believe withe the way she is acting. IMPOSSIBLE.

Have her tailed. PI will be best. The video footage he will get will be an education. Of that I have no doubt.

But to be honest, what you KNOW she does should probably be viewed by you as inappropriate.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Samsung at least consider looking at your legal options. I think the post nup is a great way to show her you mean business and might help the divorce process and reduce conflict.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

@Prodigal Agreed. I am absolutely ready to make good on my threat, though will probably need some encouragement if it comes to that, which makes me very happy to have found all of you on this forum.

@FreakOnALeash Noted. I can only hope that my situation doesn't follow the same hurtful course yours did.

@MrK I understand your skepticism. Frankly, I don't feel comfortable with the idea of a PI. She has already canceled several pre-made plans in order to avoid being around the guys that are the source of our problems, and seems intent on staying close to home, so I don't know how much good one would do at the moment anyways.

@Sanity As I mentioned, I don't think a nup will be necessary. If we split, there is very little I would want to take with me. I've made it clear how things will go down if I don't get what I want, and don't see much point in waving the idea of divorce over her head repeatedly.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Update: Well, things have been going pretty smoothly up until today. We have been spending a lot of time together, and had several productive conversations that made me feel like we were on the same page. Today though, I'm really starting to notice symptoms of withdrawal. She has been having trouble sleeping the last couple of nights, and has been sweating seemingly non-stop, but it wasn't until today that she started acting irritable. I know I should have seen it coming, but it caught me off guard none the less. I'm taking it in stride. I realize that what I've asked of her, although necessary, is not easy, and I'm going to have to be patient. I'm doing my best not to take it personally, and take it as a good sign that she is actually doing what needs to be done.

Outside of that, everything is going well, and I continue to remain optimistic that we can move out of this hurtful period of our relationship. I've continued reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy", and continue to root out some of my more self-destructive tendencies. I find it's hard to make the mental shifts necessary to start making my own happiness a priority, but I'm getting there. 

If you are reading this, I thank you for sticking with this thread, and all the valuable perspective and advice you've contributed so far.


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

Your post sounds like a "Now that it is over, thanks for the help, everyone".

I hope that will be it, Samsung, for your sake, I really do  but I fear there will be more. She is behaving for now .... but I doubt it is over that quickly. Time will tell.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Terry_CO said:


> Your post sounds like a "Now that it is over, thanks for the help, everyone".
> 
> I hope that will be it, Samsung, for your sake, I really do  but I fear there will be more. She is behaving for now .... but I doubt it is over that quickly. Time will tell.


I certainly didn't mean to come across that way. I do hope that things continue to get better between me and her, but realize that it is quite easy to change your ways for a week or so. I won't really start feeling like I can relax until we are a couple of months in.

I also hope that you will all check in on me regularly, as I may have some hard decisions in the not-to-distant future, and may need some extra backbone.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Samsung, 

The highest percentage of failure happens during the withdrawal period. It is common to fail before one succeeds. That's why support from peer programs like AA are helpful.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Starting to have some suspicions. Things were weird this morning. Can't tell if I'm being hyper-paranoid, or if things aren't on the up-and-up. God, I hate feeling this way. I wish I could trust her, but I realize that it's going to take time.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Samsung,
> 
> The highest percentage of failure happens during the withdrawal period. It is common to fail before one succeeds. That's why support from peer programs like AA are helpful.


Yeah, I really wish I could convince her to go, but bringing it up again would be like beating a dead horse at this point. She's made it quite clear she feels in control of the situation, and outside of that doesn't seem to really want to talk about it.

I'm pretty convinced at this point that she's still chatting with guys behind my back, and have suspicions that she might have been drinking over the last couple of days. 

I wouldn't have even been suspected the guy thing if she hadn't been guarding her phone like it holds the secret to eternal youth. She sleeps with it, takes it to the bathroom when she showers, etc. I made no secret of the fact when I discovered her infidelity that I had found out through her chat history. Part of me feels like I'm being overly paranoid, but another part asks why she is suddenly so concerned about her privacy if she has nothing to hide?

The drinking thing is just a suspicion, but her behavior his been odd the last couple of days, and yesterday she had a very distinct aroma she gets when sweating off alcohol. I probably wouldn't have even thought anything of it, if I wasn't already suspicious about the stuff with the phone. Maybe I'm over-thinking all of this.

On a personal note, I'm mostly through "No More Mr Nice Guy", and am starting to feel like the book was written specifically for me. I'm beginning to realize that much of the problems in my marriage stem from me fixating on my wife's happiness and approval instead of pursuing my own. It fills me with regret to know that I am such a big part of why we are broken, but gives me hope to know there are things that I can do for myself that will benefit both of us. I can only hope that it's not too late. If it comes to light that my recent suspicions are more than my imagination, I will have no choice but to move on.

I hope you are all well and happy.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Samsung, I AM well and happy ... but I've been going to Al-Anon since 1996. I also KNOW that you are waaaayyyyy too involved in the addict's addiction.

Please, please, please - STEP AWAY FROM THE ADDICT. Your antennae are up regarding her. Mister, I say this with all the love I can muster, BUT YOU NEED HELP. Get into counseling. Get into Al-Anon. 

Respect her right to screw up her life. Yes, you are fixated on her. Read up on alcoholism. But also educate yourself on codependency, and what living with an addict can do to your life.

You are accepting unacceptable behavior. It is time to get the focus completely off her. You need to start asking yourself really hard questions. Why the heck are you wishing she would get help? That is her responsibility, not yours. 

Once you get crazy enough messing in an addict's life - and I assure you, you will - it will be time to back off. QUIT WISHING AND HOPING SHE WILL CHANGE. That is not on your side of the street. 

Sure, you are responsible for the problems in your marriage (to some degree), but you are in no way, whatsoever, for her drinking. Never. She alone owns that.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Why are you allowing a wayward lying alcoholic wife to keep her phone from you?

Ask her for it and the password.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Samsung said:


> Starting to have some suspicions. Things were weird this morning. Can't tell if I'm being hyper-paranoid, or if things aren't on the up-and-up. God, I hate feeling this way. I wish I could trust her, but I realize that it's going to take time.


:slap: All you are doing is wasting time. Pack your bags and leave or insist that she do the same. 

My ex got his crap together FOUR times, not just for days or weeks but for MONTHS. Last year I was stupid enough to fall for it and allowed our son to move in with him in May. By November he was falling apart and managed to destroy our entire family AGAIN!! And yes, he was doing just GREAT just a few months before. THAT is when I finally wised up and filed for divorce. BEST thing I ever did. 

So how long are you going to waste time? How long are you going to go thru this charade and allow her to string you along? She doesn't even want to go to AA. Yeah, my ex pulled this as well. Now he's in AA and it IS a good thing but he's not doing it for me or the kids, but for himself. THAT is what the addict has to do. He/She has to do it for THEMSELF and until they do nothing is going to change. 

And YOU have to look out for YOURSELF. When are you going to start doing that? 

Wake up and smell the alcohol dude, it ain't going to change and are you going to sire a few kids with her and drag them into this before you've had enough? You're still young and have options so exercise you're right to use them. 

Put down the book and go to Al anon at least. Figure it out.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Well, it appears we are getting a divorce. Honestly, it caught me off guard, and I'm still trying to come to terms with all of it. Things has been going pretty well between us, or at least I thought they had. Today, we made plans to go run some errands. I had told her a while back I'd take her shopping for shorts, and I also wanted her to look at the new vehicle we were planning on buying in person before we pulled the trigger. I said I'd like to be out the door by 12:30, and she agreed. That gave her 2 hours to get ready. 11:50 rolls around and she's still watching tv. She's done nothing to get ready, and I know it's going to take her at least an hour. This is a pretty common scenario between us, and I felt it was a good time to broach the fact that it showed very little respect for my time since she is habitually late for anything we plan to do. I sat down, and tried to calmly explain myself, but only made it about halfway through before she blurted out she wanted a divorce. She said something about me having gone crazy lately, and couldn't live with my trying to control her all the time.

We haven't really talked much since, and I'm still piecing things together in my head. I'm not really sure how that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's like she was sitting around waiting for an excuse to end things. I really don't feel like anything I've asked of her has been unreasonable, but apparently she sees it differently.

I find myself to be oddly calm in the face of it. I'm not sure if it just really hasn't sunk in yet, or if I've done all the grieving I needed to already. I realize that if she is so emotionally removed from me that she is unwilling to make the changes (fairly small changes at that) needed to make this relationship a healthy and happy environment for me, than it has probably been doomed for a long time.

Well, back to packing. The only thing really holding me back from leaving immediately is we only have the one vehicle at the moment. As soon as I am able to find a new one for her, I want to be ready to hit the road. Hopefully that won't take much more than a week, and then it's off to start over somewhere else. I'll try to keep you guys updated on what's going on. This is a really hard time for me, so I appreciate all the support you have given so far.


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## saving relationships (Apr 22, 2013)

Have you tried spending time with her and her friends? It is healthy in a relationship to share friends and family to strengthen the bond. Maybe you try being around her while she's with her friends. That may help keep her alcohol in check too. 

Since you construct your words so well, maybe you could try a different approach where you write her a letter, thus not getting distracted from what your trying to convey to her. It doesn't have to continue with letters, Just use it as an opener for your discussion. Prepare a list of things you need to know, It is never a bad idea to be prepared. 

good luck and I wish you the best

Sorry- Just read the first page when posting.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

saving relationships said:


> Have you tried spending time with her and her friends? It is healthy in a relationship to share friends and family to strengthen the bond. Maybe you try being around her while she's with her friends. That may help keep her alcohol in check too.
> 
> Since you construct your words so well, maybe you could try a different approach where you write her a letter, thus not getting distracted from what your trying to convey to her. It doesn't have to continue with letters, Just use it as an opener for your discussion. Prepare a list of things you need to know, It is never a bad idea to be prepared.
> 
> ...


Although good advice, I'm afraid it is too late for that.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Samsung said:


> Well, it appears we are getting a divorce. Honestly, it caught me off guard, and I'm still trying to come to terms with all of it. Things has been going pretty well between us, or at least I thought they had. Today, we made plans to go run some errands. I had told her a while back I'd take her shopping for shorts, and I also wanted her to look at the new vehicle we were planning on buying in person before we pulled the trigger. I said I'd like to be out the door by 12:30, and she agreed. That gave her 2 hours to get ready. 11:50 rolls around and she's still watching tv. She's done nothing to get ready, and I know it's going to take her at least an hour. This is a pretty common scenario between us, and I felt it was a good time to broach the fact that it showed very little respect for my time since she is habitually late for anything we plan to do. I sat down, and tried to calmly explain myself, but only made it about halfway through before she blurted out she wanted a divorce. She said something about me having gone crazy lately, and couldn't live with my trying to control her all the time.
> 
> We haven't really talked much since, and I'm still piecing things together in my head. I'm not really sure how that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's like she was sitting around waiting for an excuse to end things. I really don't feel like anything I've asked of her has been unreasonable, but apparently she sees it differently.
> 
> ...


Why do you have to get her a vehicle?


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Well, if it hadn't hit home before, it sure did while separating out old pictures. Good god, how did we go so wrong. We used to be so happy.

She's been crying pretty much non-stop all afternoon. I wish I had something to say that would make things better, but... 

I simply don't understand why she can't reinvest in our relationship, but it is out of my hands. Best to just keep packing and try to stay strong.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

It's too hard for her to give you simple marriage boundaries, so you can feel safe in the relationship. This is not someone you could be in a marriage with, at this stage of her life. 

Here this may help you detach.

180 List - No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group

Stay strong.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> It's too hard for her to give you simple marriage boundaries, so you can feel safe in the relationship. This is not someone you could be in a marriage with, at this stage of her life.
> 
> Here this may help you detach.
> 
> ...


Much appreciated, Anchor. Your advice continues to be right on target. I will certainly be looking in that forum for more support.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Samsung said:


> I simply don't understand why she can't reinvest in our relationship...


Unfortunately, I believe she chose the bottle (and probably another man) over you. But, regardless of the OM, I assure you, the bottle will be her first priority.

I lost out to the bottle myself. It sucked. But I pulled myself together and got on with my life.

Again, Al-Anon might be an option you want to explore in the near future ...


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> Unfortunately, I believe she chose the bottle (and probably another man) over you. But, regardless of the OM, I assure you, the bottle will be her first priority.
> 
> I lost out to the bottle myself. It sucked. But I pulled myself together and got on with my life.
> 
> Again, Al-Anon might be an option you want to explore in the near future ...


I honestly don't believe another man is in the picture, though I've been so vastly wrong about so much regarding her, I suppose it's possible. It's hard to tell what to believe anymore.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Well, its obvious by her decision that she is being the selfish alcoholic at this point. She doesnt want to change for you, or to save your marriage. Right now, she is more interested in her addiction, and self serving indulgences with alcohol and other men. (her rabid protection of her phone gives that one away) She is doing you a favor and setting you free. She wont change until she is ready, and now you will be able to move forward onto better things in your life.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Samsung said:


> Well, it appears we are getting a divorce. Honestly, it caught me off guard, and I'm still trying to come to terms with all of it. Things has been going pretty well between us, or at least I thought they had.


Samsung, if you think things had been going well then I suggest you read, read, and read more stories on TAM in the dealing wtih fidelity section. it's hard for all of us not to admin truths that we don't like but that's what you have to do if you want control of your life.

Hey, knowledge is power. Knowledge or addition, of serial cheaters, of nice guys, jaded TAMERS, of wise TAMERS, etc.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Samsung said:


> It's hard to tell what to believe anymore.


And therein lies the crux of the matter. WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE? You don't get it yet ... you are still fixated about what to believe vis-à-vis HER. 

It is now about you. She wants a divorce? Sure she does. She is romancing the bottle big-time. She is also likely in an affair.

You are in denial. Honestly.

So, you have to decide what you believe about yourself. You have to decide what you want from life. You can only live your own life; not hers.

She doesn't give a good cahoot about you. I'm sorry, but that is REALITY. So, start believing in yourself. Focus on yourself.

She sure as heck isn't focused on you. One. Tiny. Bit.

I'm sorry to be so blunt. You need a wake-up call. Now.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

:smthumbup: She did you a HUGE favor. Now pack your bags and get the hell out of there and don't buy her any cars or anything. NOW is the time to separate your finances completely. Get a separate bank account, freeze the credit cards and make sure she isn't able to buy ANYTHING that you might be held responsible for. Go see a lawyer ASAP. 

Just get the hell OUT before she can turn on the waterworks and try and wear you down with the "poor, poor pitiful me, I'm just a drunk who nobody loves, blah blah blah".. :slap: :banghead:

Divorce means just that.. DIVORCE. You are going to have to protect yourself, not just emotionally but financially. 

She's an alcoholic and she WILL do anything she can to take advantage of you. She will lie, she will cheat and she will steal from you. Protect yourself and put on your big boy pants because it's going to get worse before it gets better. 

But it WILL get better. But for now, just get OUT.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> :She's an alcoholic and she WILL do anything she can to take advantage of you. She will lie, she will cheat and she will steal from you. Protect yourself and put on your big boy pants because it's going to get worse before it gets better.
> 
> But it WILL get better. But for now, just get OUT.


Samsung, THIS is the voice of experience. Believe it. I've been manipulated beyond my wildest beliefs by an alcoholic. They are masters of the game.

Get out, please. Whatever you believe, you need some distance from this mess. You need time to decompress. I know it is painful. But care enough for yourself to simply see this for what it is. Life with an alcoholic is the pits. 

Love yourself. Because she doesn't love you. And, even sadder, she is incapable of loving herself. 

Go.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

She surely has envisioned a plan, that gives her the freedoms to carry on her desired lifestyle. Thus the quick step to D. Too bad she doesn't forsee any steps or consequences in life, further than that. I think Samsung knows this now. 

Stay resolved to break free.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Samsung said:


> I sat down, and tried to calmly explain myself, but only made it about halfway through before she blurted out she wanted a divorce. She said something about me having gone crazy lately, and couldn't live with my trying to control her all the time.
> 
> We haven't really talked much since, and I'm still piecing things together in my head. I'm not really sure how that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's like she was sitting around waiting for an excuse to end things. I really don't feel like anything I've asked of her has been unreasonable, but apparently she sees it differently.


Jeez Samsung,
I suppose you were here (TAM) looking for an easy answer. Well there were answers easy to understand but you have to have the fortitude to do something. We've been telling you to stand up, set boundaries, and hold her accountable. Yes that means ultimatums and maybe she'd leave but at least she'd have respect for you and maybe see what she's losing or decide that she's losing something worth having. You set your worth really low to her by letting her treat you like crap.

This is not a surprise. It's the eneviable outcome of letting your partner walk all over boundaries. The only chance you had to save this was to become respectable in her eyes. As it stands, she views you as emotionally weak and not worthy for her to be with. This is not confusing, it's not complicated, it's not optional, and it will repeat it's self unless you modify your own way of thinking.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> Jeez Samsung,
> I suppose you were here (TAM) looking for an easy answer. Well there were answers easy to understand but you have to have the fortitude to do something. We've been telling you to stand up, set boundaries, and hold her accountable. Yes that means ultimatums and maybe she'd leave but at least she'd have respect for you and maybe see what she's losing or decide that she's losing something worth having. You set your worth really low to her by letting her treat you like crap.
> 
> This is not a surprise. It's the eneviable outcome of letting your partner walk all over boundaries. The only chance you had to save this was to become respectable in her eyes. As it stands, she views you as emotionally weak and not worthy for her to be with. This is not confusing, it's not complicated, it's not optional, and it will repeat it's self unless you modify your own way of thinking.


:iagree:

This is on the money.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Thanks for sticking with me, guys. I find this forum has become a great place for me to come back and recoup some of the positive energy I need to move forward.

The wife and I had a fairly constructive conversation last-night (well, at least part of one). She either got too drunk or too sad at one point to continue, but by that point we had pretty much said what needed to be said. It's obvious that we both still care for each-other deeply, but that the relationship has become too toxic to continue. I suppose I could see myself giving it another shot if she agreed to AA meetings, but outside of that I'm ready to move on. It was nice to realize though that we will be able to move on without having hard feelings towards each-other.

I woke up early this morning to the sound of her retching in the bathroom. It's not an uncommon sound these days. I waited for her to finish and decided to go check on her, only to find her passed out on the bathroom floor, also not to uncommon these days. Of course I was concerned, and my initial reaction was to carry her to bed and get her to force some water down, but for the first time in our relationship I didn't. I just walked away. Not because I was feeling vindictive or wished her harm, but I've come to realize that I've done nothing but enable her addiction by taking the consequences of her actions on myself. She's never woken up on the floor somewhere in the house, wondering how she got there. She's never gotten a DUI, because I've always been so willing to shuttle her around, and keep her from driving when she's been drinking. She's made plenty of mistakes, but somehow I always ended up being the one that paid for them, and I used to feel like the victim because of it. I am now starting to see that it was all self inflicted. I chose to take that burden by putting her interests before mine, and consequently, she has had no real incentive to get help for her drinking. I suppose that I can only hope my absence in the future is the catalyst she needs to get her life together.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Samsung said:


> I woke up early this morning to the sound of her retching in the bathroom. It's not an uncommon sound these days. I waited for her to finish and decided to go check on her, only to find her passed out on the bathroom floor, also not to uncommon these days. Of course I was concerned, and my initial reaction was to carry her to bed and get her to force some water down, but for the first time in our relationship I didn't. I just walked away. Not because I was feeling vindictive or wished her harm, but I've come to realize that I've done nothing but enable her addiction by taking the consequences of her actions on myself. She's never woken up on the floor somewhere in the house, wondering how she got there. She's never gotten a DUI, because I've always been so willing to shuttle her around, and keep her from driving when she's been drinking. She's made plenty of mistakes, but somehow I always ended up being the one that paid for them, and I used to feel like the victim because of it. I am now starting to see that it was all self inflicted. I chose to take that burden by putting her interests before mine, and consequently, she has had no real incentive to get help for her drinking. I suppose that I can only hope my absence in the future is the catalyst she needs to get her life together.


:bounce: Hurray!!! THIS is exactly what you have needed figure out! This is exactly what you need to do! I am SO happy for you! :yay:


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Samsung, you are making a good move towards having a healthy relationship in the future. It may be with your wife, or it may not be. The ball is now firmly in her court.

Still ... I know how much it hurts to lose out to the booze. I mean, you have to be asking yourself why your wife would prefer slowly killing herself with this addiction to getting her act together.

It doesn't make sense; or as they say in A.A. meetings, "... we deal with alcohol; cunning, baffling, powerful." It sucks, it really does.

Please keep posting, because we do care.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Samsung said:


> I woke up early this morning to the sound of her retching in the bathroom. It's not an uncommon sound these days. I waited for her to finish and decided to go check on her, only to find her passed out on the bathroom floor, also not to uncommon these days. Of course I was concerned, and my initial reaction was to carry her to bed and get her to force some water down, but for the first time in our relationship I didn't. I just walked away. Not because I was feeling vindictive or wished her harm, but I've come to realize that I've done nothing but enable her addiction by taking the consequences of her actions on myself.


:smthumbup: A GREAT START! The first step is the hardest one in a journey and you've started yours towards a healthier, happier future for YOU. 

I know where you come from. My ex did the SAME thing. One time I went to his house and he literally opened the door and passed out right in front of me. Another time he was curled up in the basement after consuming an entire case of beer that I had hidden down there. And then there was the time he called me at 3 am to tell me that he didn't know where he was and couldn't understand why he was at his father's house and why wasn't I with him. I got there to see that he had fallen and had a gash on his forehead. He was having alcoholic "blackouts" at that point. 

He even told me he had pancreatic cancer to gain more sympathy (never found any indication that this was free). He insisted that I call our kids over and called his friends to tell them this. 

Yep, I went through the WHOLE gamut with him. How many times did I clean up after him, clean his house up, clean the sh!t that was running down his butt and wipe him clean? How many times did I sit and hold him while he took a shower? Paid his back bills, took him to the hospital? Too many times to count...

But the last time it happened I just said, "Well, I hope you feel better" and left. I filed for divorce a few days later. Best thing I ever did. Should've done it a LONG time ago. Don't wait as long as I did. Leave ASAP and join Al Anon. It'll be a very positive step.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> Samsung, THIS is the voice of experience. Believe it. I've been manipulated beyond my wildest beliefs by an alcoholic. They are masters of the game.
> 
> Get out, please. Whatever you believe, you need some distance from this mess. You need time to decompress. I know it is painful. But care enough for yourself to simply see this for what it is. Life with an alcoholic is the pits.
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: LISTEN TO THIS!! 

Sad to say, I am the voice of experience on this as well.  The thing is, it NEVER ends. My ex has done the same cycle over and over and over again. Even now, with going to AA, he manages to twist and pervert everything to suit his purposes. 

He told me just the other day that I was "stupid trust a drunk" and that everything that happened was therefore my fault! :slap: ONCE AGAIN he said the SAME words to me that I've heard dozens of times before.."I'm trying to get my life together". 

A narcissistic, arrogant, alcoholic is a sad thing to watch indeed. Even my son now doesn't want much to do with him. Sooner or later they drive everyone away from them, and for good reason. 

I have no more sympathy for my ex. When he mentioned trying to do the same thing that I do in my business (once a business that we both ran and he nearly destroyed) I told him that if he did such a thing I would haul his butt into court and sue him for every penny of child support I could get out of him. I told him that even if he didn't have a dime left I'd make his life so miserable that he'd have to crawl into a bottle to escape me. He said "That's crazy talk". 

I said "Damn straight, you'll find out just how crazy I am when I haul your drunken, sorry a$s into court." 

He agreed to stay out of MY business. I have now made it clear that he is to stay OUT of my life, out of my business and if he pushes me, I will keep our children away from him. I still have a letter from the Division of Youth and Family Services that says he's an unfit father and backs this up.

You see, NOW he has spent all his money. He has no money to hire lawyers now. He sold his CAR to pay his rent. He has NOTHING and he has NO POWER over me or anyone else. But I do and I intend to exercise whatever power I can to protect me, my kids and my business and livelihood.

THAT is how you have to handle an alcoholic. They don't respect or believe anything else.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

I have to admit, I got really close to breaking today. We had an emotional conversation in which she said she was willing to make any changes I needed in order for us to continue. Due to our history with such promises, I stood firm against them and made it clear that I wasn't going to change my mind. But she wore on me. I got to the very edge of saying I'd give our relationship another shot when I decided to make a bargain with myself. If I could get her to admit she has a drinking problem and was going to get help, I'd stay.

I gave her every chance to do so, and broached the idea of AA several times, even saying I'd go with her, but she shot me down and became withdrawn. It is clear she can't admit to herself that the way she uses alcohol is destructive, and I am therefore unable to help her.

I know many of you have had some pretty tough runs with alcoholic spouses, and I don't claim that her problems can hold a candle to most of what's been posted, but it's bad enough. I just can't honestly believe that she would ever actually quit without being able to first recognize that it was a problem to begin with. She would just keep drinking behind my back and lying to me about it, like she's done in the past. 

I find it somewhat ironic that the first thing she did when we decided to get a divorce was start drinking, and as far as I know she hasn't stopped. Now that she realizes there pretty much no chance of saving things, her next step was to ask to take the car for a couple of days to drive up and stay at that guys house. She actually asked this while I was trying to decide if I wanted to give our relationship one more shot! I was blown away. She turns to the very two things that killed our relationship to begin while there's still an outside shot we could make it work. It's like she's actually attempting to sabotage her own attempts to get us back together. It reinforced what I already suspected, that she doesn't care that these things hurt me, only that she receives flack from me about it. And, man, does it hurt.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

If you don't want to give Al-Anon a shot, consider finding an addictions counselor to see. Why? Because she's addicted to the booze, but (to some extent) you are still addicted to her. It would also help just to sit in on a couple of open AA meetings. It will open your eyes to what you are dealing with.

The manipulation, lies, and self-centered behavior are part and parcel with alcoholism. As long as she thinks you serve some purpose for her, or she can use you to her advantage in any way whatsoever, she will keep trying to rope you in.

This is where you need to seek some sort of recovery for yourself, be it meetings, a counselor, whatever. Most of us simply can't handle living with an alkie. It is too crazy-making.

Hold firm and keep your boundaries. As you can see, once she realized she couldn't rope you in, she went off to party with some other guy. Yes, you are hurt, but realize this - she doesn't have a strong attachment to you. Booze comes first. You are, at best, a distant second.

And you deserve a whole lot better than that.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Well, here are how things stand at the moment. After it was clear we were getting a divorce, my wife spent the next three days barricaded in her room, consuming nothing but alcohol and soda. After our last talk, I became extremely concerned for her health, since she was having trouble standing and was very pale due to dehydration. I decided it was in both mine and her best interests if I struck a deal with her.

I've agreed to stick around for one more month on a few conditions. She is not to drink. She is not to fraternize with her boyfriends. She is to attend AA meetings. If she can accomplish these three things over the next month, I told her we would remeasure where our relationship stood at the end of it.

I feel that even if we decide we can no longer be together after this, at least it will give her an opportunity to get some perspective on her drinking habits. I've spent the last 24 hours trying to get her back to normal-sober, but it's going slowly. She's obviously having heavy withdrawals, but claims she's just dehydrated.

I've been getting a surprising amount of push-back on the AA meetings front. Her schedule is such that she works every other week, so I proposed two meetings on her off week, and one on her work week. I asked her to find a meeting that looked good to her, but she was unable to do it. She made all sorts of excuses about it being too confusing, and then went and lied down in the back like the subject was just too depressing for her. So I've chosen our first meeting for tomorrow, and have agreed to go with her to help her be less nervous about it. She's not talking to me much.

I feel like what will amount to six meetings over a four week period is asking very little of a person to save a marriage. I even told her that if she made it through the next month without any slip-ups, while attending all the meetings, she wouldn't have to continue going unless she wanted to. But somehow, she seems terrified of the entire idea. 

I'm not really sure how I feel about AA meetings either, but I recognize that we are out of options, and I just wish she was working as hard to save things as I am. I do very much hope that she can find some peace with this thing, and that we can simultaneously rediscover what made us so good together in the first place, but she is doing very little to give me hope at the moment. Hopefully things will seem more optimistic as she moves out of withdrawals.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Samsung said:


> Well, here are how things stand at the moment. After it was clear we were getting a divorce, my wife spent the next three days barricaded in her room, consuming nothing but alcohol and soda. After our last talk, I became extremely concerned for her health, since she was having trouble standing and was very pale due to dehydration. I decided it was in both mine and her best interests if I struck a deal with her.
> 
> I've agreed to stick around for one more month on a few conditions. She is not to drink. She is not to fraternize with her boyfriends. She is to attend AA meetings. If she can accomplish these three things over the next month, I told her we would remeasure where our relationship stood at the end of it.
> 
> ...


Good luck Samsung. Nothing left to say because you're not ready to accept advice IMO.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Good luck Samsung. Nothing left to say because you're not ready to accept advice IMO.


I assure you I've read and appreciate all the advice given so far, including your's, Thundarr. My situation, although similar to many that people here have experienced, is uniquely mine, and I'm doing my best to weigh the pros and cons of my decisions. My actions may not be "right" or even rational, but I'm doing the best I can with what I have. It is a confusing time for me, and much rides on my decisions.

I hope that you will continue to contribute and be patient with me.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You have every right to accept or reject the opinions and suggestions offered by those posting here. But, mister, you know jack sh!t about alcoholism. Frankly, if you had a grain of respect for your wife, you would step back from her and quit forcing solutions.

But here is the truth about WHAT IS your situation: No matter how drunk your wife chooses to be, you are going to force-feed her a recovery program. She will reject it, because she has the free will to do so. But the real tragedy here is you are completely and totally codependent. 

Far be it from me not to tell a spouse to play enabler, addictions counselor, medical doctor, or whatever role one so desires. This isn't about your wife; it's about you.

And, NO, your situation is not unique. We often talk in the rooms about the alcoholic's sense of "terminal uniqueness." They are so special, they have special problems, nobody can understand what they've been through, blah, blah, blah.

So, now I'm seeing a codependent who is completely enmeshed in someone else's addiction. Nope, it's no longer about her alcoholism. This entire thread has, ultimately, been all about you.

I wish you the best of luck. When you hit bottom, and quit bargaining with insanity, I'll be back.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

And just a P.S. as a warning. If you think she is a bit aggravated with you now, wait until she gets really p!ssed off at you. I assure you, she will. You are messing with her addiction. You are not allowing her to hit bottom, if there is even a bottom for her. 

You think you've seen anger? Wait until she gets fired up over you telling her how she's got to get with your program. If she doesn't try to rip your face off with her bare hands, consider yourself lucky.

You are walking on extremely dangerous ground. An addict will get ticked off like you can't believe when you start messing with their side of the street.

You have been forewarned.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Samsung, 

I do understand each man must feel comfortable he did enough before he walked away. That's okay. You're moving in that direction, you're not there yet. You will be there sooner than you think. Listen to Prodigal.

We are only trying to spare you some anguish. You know you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink and I'm not talking about you. You're going learn when you get to AA. They will tell you as much. Make sure you ask for help do when you get there. 

BTW, I don't think she's going tomorrow. I do think you need to go to a meeting to understand it.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

A bit late chiming in......I'm so sorry that your wife is an alcoholic. I do see you confused as to why she is choosing alcohol over a healthy marriage with you. 

You need to stop with that line of thinking please.

Your wife is ILL. She has the disease of alcoholism. She cannot CURE herself as if she had cancer.

She needs INTENSIVE TREATMENT & REHAB....not simply AA meetings here & there & when she "feels" like it.

Stop with the "bargains."

Educate yourself on the disease. Stop dwelling on the past good times in your relationship.

If you have any hope of a healthy marriage, she needs to choose sobriety & not just with words & the occasional meeting.

Good luck.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Lot's of solid advice, and I do see the wisdom in what you guys are saying.

This is how it breaks down for me, in my head. She repeatedly lies and acts in ways that she knows jeopardizes our marriage. This could be caused by one of two things...
A. She either has no respect for me and/or she doesn't love me.
B. She is an addict and her actions are fueled by her dependency.

If she cannot admit that she is an alcoholic and that her addiction is ruining our marriage, then either A and/or B is the problem and neither are fixable. If she is in fact an addict and can admit to it, we have a problem with a potential solution. That is what this next month is about.

It is my hope that by sitting down in these meetings will give her some perspective on what dependency is and how it effects other people, because she just doesn't seem to get it when I say it. I made it clear that our marriage lasting past this month was dependent on her achieving that point of view.

In the past, she was not able to stay away from alcohol for even a week, so this final chance at saving our marriage may not even get that far. I really do appreciate all the support, and recognize the tough love for what it is. Frankly, it's just worth a little more heartache at this point to give it one more go. Thanks for sticking around through it.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Samsung, you're mistaken. Alcoholics don't love themselves or any one else, only the bottle to relive their guilt.

Don't miss the meeting.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Go into this thinking that learning about alcoholism can help you make a decision about your life. Because that's true. Don't go into it feeling she's on the same page as you or wants help or is going to change. She may. But all of that is up to her. Not you.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> You have every right to accept or reject the opinions and suggestions offered by those posting here. But, mister, you know jack sh!t about alcoholism. Frankly, if you had a grain of respect for your wife, you would step back from her and quit forcing solutions.
> 
> But here is the truth about WHAT IS your situation: No matter how drunk your wife chooses to be, you are going to force-feed her a recovery program. She will reject it, because she has the free will to do so. But the real tragedy here is you are completely and totally codependent.
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: I could not have said it better. You are being seriously delusional if you think you or anyone else is going to "change back" your wife into the "woman she once". THAT woman is gone, even if she gets sober and stays sober (a BIG "IF") she's not what she once. She never will be. 

And WHY should she change? She has you right she wants you. She threw herself a tantrum and you stayed with her. She's got you RIGHT where she wants you. 

The ONLY way your wife is going to get clean is sober is if SHE wants to do it and SHE has to make the choice to choose that as a priority. Her reaction to your saying you want a divorce is to drink and then go back to her man friend..and what do YOU do? You stay. Do you have to work hard to be this bad a sucker or do you study at it? :slap: I mean, seriously...

Ok, have yourself the delusion that your wife is going to go to AA and stay sober. At the very least you'll meet others like her. Why the heck aren't you going to Al-Anon? Are you afraid what you might hear from people who have had to deal with alcoholism with their loved ones? Something tells me you are and THAT is why you are avoiding it. 

Which means that you are no better than your wife. 

In fact, I think you might be worse off because reality is a concept that hasn't entered that thick skull of yours. She's doing what SHE wants and will continue to do it. You are just wasting time and throwing band aids over amputated limbs trying to stop the bleeding.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> We often talk in the rooms about the alcoholic's sense of "terminal uniqueness." They are so special, they have special problems, nobody can understand what they've been through, blah, blah, blah.


Yep, that's my ex husband. "No one understands me, etc, etc, blah, blah". "You have no idea, no one does" :slap:

I told him he has to get a new line because that one is getting old.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Well, the wife and I are officially getting divorced....again.

I thought things were going pretty well, until this morning. She got aggravated at me over some silly stuff, but it blew over and I thought I had dodged the bullet. 

I took her shopping for shorts this afternoon. I thought it would be a good precursor to our first AA meeting if we had some positive time together, and it went pretty well. The AA meeting went pretty well also. It seemed like a good group of folks, and I came out of it feeling positive. She didn't participate, but I had told her I didn't expect it out of the first meeting so that was fine.

The ride back was when I first knew I was in trouble. She was quiet, and I knew she was stewing. We weren't home for five minutes before she started stirring the pot. She came at me claiming that since I had begun requiring things of her in our marriage, that she should be able to do the same. She listed off several problems she had with me. I conceded to some of the points and agreed to make some changes, but somehow that wasn't enough for her. She still kept arguing the point and angling for divorce. 

That's when I realized the whole game for what it was. She had been sober for a couple of days and wanted a drink. She knew that drinking behind my back was as good as admitting to herself that she was an alcoholic, so she was once again pushing for divorce so she could be free of her promise to me to stay sober for a month. I pointed out to her the huge discrepancy in her attitude towards our marriage now compared to how she felt coming off her three day bender a couple of days ago. I also pointed out that a promise was a promise, and whether we were together or not, drinking anytime over the next month was proof she had no control over it, but her mind was already made up.

I find I'm not as hurt this time around. I think the combination of the council I've gotten here, combined with the recognition of her patterns left me with little hope for this last chance working out. Honestly though, I had expected her to take a real shot at it. She made it 48 hours.

I realize that my lack of backbone has led some of you to feel like I am not listening to your advice. I assure you, I've agreed with most everything said so far, but have simply been unable to let go of the strong feelings I have for her. This is the first time in my life I've had to let go of someone I truly love, and I find myself poorly equipped for it. It appears she has once again "done me a favor", and I will be looking to separate myself from this situation as soon as humanly possible.

I'll keep you guys up to speed. Thanks again for all the help so far. I can honestly say, I might have continued suffering silently for quite a bit longer if I had not found you on this forum.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

I had a long night, last night. I went to bed with a lot of doubts and regrets in my head. I couldn't stop thinking about all the ways I had botched this marriage. All the things I could have done differently. I could have helped around the house more. I could have made more of an effort to go out with her friends. I could have made more of an effort to find something resembling common ground with her family. All that and a lot more. I was up and down all night with those thoughts, and I dreamt frequently of her.

One dream in particular summed up my feelings quite well. I dreamt that she was getting ready for work while I was sitting at my computer, checking to see what the weather was going to be like that evening. Storm clouds had been rolling in all afternoon, and there was heavy lightning and thunder. Outside of that, it was a normal day, without the threat of divorce hanging over our heads. She came in and asked me how the weather looked. I looked at her and knew, for no apparent reason, that I was never going to see her again. She was leaving me. I openly wept and clung to her. I kept saying "I'm sorry" and begged her to stay, but she just stood there and said nothing.

I woke up from that with a very different outlook on things. I realized that even though I'm leaving her, it feels very much like she is leaving me, and maybe has been for a long time. I realized that even if I was capable of being the perfect husband, these problems might very well still exist, and I would still need her to change them in order to be happy, which she has already proven on several occasions she is unwilling to do.

I'm just going to have to accept that I did have some role in the downfall of our marriage, and work hard to not repeat those mistakes in the future. It certainly doesn't feel like I could ever love anyone the way I love her, but I fully intend to have my act together in case it does happen.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm feeling a lot better today. I was still in a really low spot yesterday, when my brother gave me a call. We had a good talk about what's been going on, and he echoed many of the concerns some of you have made on this forum. He especially voiced concern about the way I tend to isolate myself, and pointed out how easy it is to have your perception of things warped when you only have one person (my wife) to get feedback from. He even, much like many of you on this forum, commented on how a few Al-Anon meetings might give me some perspective on things.

And now for an embarrassing confession. It turns out I had a very warped idea of what Al-Anon was about. I've thought for years that it was just a branch of AA, and therefore was for people with chemical dependencies. Now that my brother has set me straight on that, I realize that I've misunderstood much of the advice on this forum. I agree, Al-Anon meetings would probably be a good thing for me, and am going to look into hitting one up this week.

Talking to my brother and connecting with some friends over Xbox Live last-night really brought my spirits up and helped me realize what had been bringing me so down the previous 24 hours. I had, once again, been fixating on my wife. Even in separation, I continue to let concerns about my wife rule me, and that has to stop. As soon as that cycle was broken, I felt a heck of a lot better. Once my mental focus shifted away from her and back to my own future, everything started seeming a lot more manageable. I'm just going to have to train myself to let her deal with her own life, and me with mine. I'm also going to make sure that one of the first things I do, wherever I land after this, is join some social groups to force me out of my isolation patterns.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

One foot in front of the other, brother. You'll break free.

I did give you the link to Al-Anon earlier. Check out the resources.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Outside of all the emotional ups and downs you would expect from such a situation, things are going pretty smoothly. She has pretty much been doing her best to distance herself from me. She remains locked in the bedroom pretty much all the time, and has blocked me on facebook. I gave her the opportunity to go through our old photos and keep any she wanted, but she just said she didn't want any. I can't help but feel she is becoming bitter towards me. All of this hurts, but at the same time is making it easier to let go. I had just hoped that we would be able to manage separation without hard feelings.

At about ten this morning, she surprised me by seeking me outside where I was packing up my tools. It was obvious she was drunk, and it took a few attempts for her to string together enough coherent words for me to understand what she wanted. Her friend had gotten in a wreck, and needed someone to come drive her to rent a car. My immediate thought was that this was a golden opportunity for me to say no, and show her how her alcoholic tendencies effected her ability to be there for the people who care for her, but it didn't seem right to leave her friend in a bind so I consented. She'll have enough opportunity to figure these things out when I'm gone. I'm finding that I'm looking more and more forward to hitting the road.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

It's easier to see clearly, once you start to detach. Once you see clearly it reinforces the detachment.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I have to say I think about divorce all the time. Not sure when it might actually happen though.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

The last 24 hours have been filled with a lot of pain and doubt. I barely slept last night, and I find myself asking a lot of what-ifs. I keep wandering if things could still be fixed.

I realize that one way or another, the best thing for both me and her is to get some separation, so I've stepped up my departure date to Thursday. I'm sure we will both have a better understanding of what we want once we've spent some time apart.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Have you reached out to  Al-Anon ? 

You will get support and a clearer understanding of what you are up against, from those who have been where you are.

You will be welcomed.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Have you reached out to  Al-Anon ?
> 
> You will get support and a clearer understanding of what you are up against, from those who have been where you are.
> 
> You will be welcomed.


I know I should, and meant to yesterday, but just haven't had the willpower to make it happen yet. I'll try to make myself go to a meeting once I land back east. Might even be heading that way as early as tomorrow.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Well, I've pretty much packed up everything but the computer, which I'm about to do right now. I'm gonna grab a few hours of sleep and wake up bright and early to wheel out of here. If I'm being honest, it's been non-stop pain, and it's starting to feel like it's never going to stop. I'm just going to have to hope that putting some distance between me and this place helps. I'll try to update when I land somewhere.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

The last five days have been pretty terrible. I managed to get myself out the door, as I said I would, and start the long drive back east towards friends and family. It was by far the hardest thing I've ever done. I didn't even have the strength to say goodbye to her. By the time I was done saying goodby to the pets, I knew just seeing her would cause me to break down. If I hadn't been so sure it was the best thing for both of us, I wouldn't have had the strength to leave.

The drive back was terrible, and the subsequent time with friends and family has somehow made me feel no less lonely. I normally find great pleasure in adventures where I get to drive cross-country and camp, but with the absence of a home to go back to, or someone to share my experiences with, it all felt hollow and miserable. I've never felt so homeless or unloved.

My brother has seen me through much of it, and has talked me out of a couple of hair-brained schemes. I find as long as I'm moving and doing things, the pain isn't quite as overwhelming, which has caused me to convince myself to up and move to other parts of the country without any friends or job leads nearby on a couple of occasions. Fortunately, someone with better sense than me was looking out for my well-being.

It is hard being back here with family. It's a small town, and where I met her and we spent our first several years together, so there seems to be memories at every turn. I keep trying to tell myself that she is no longer that person, and has no desire to be, but somehow it doesn't help.

I haven't settled into somewhere long enough to attend an al-anon meeting yet, but I have been re-reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy." It is helpful and discouraging at the same time. I feel like it gives me the optimism and direction I need to pursue the things that will make me happy, but at the same time I recognize that if I had discovered this book a few years ago, she and I might still be together and making each other happy. I'm not trying to make excuses for her behavior (I realize those were her decisions to make), but at the same time I see that I failed myself and her greatly, and wonder if she would have made the same decisions had I been better. The last time around we agreed to give it one more shot, I asked her to read the book so she would have a better understanding of why I needed these changes, and how it would benefit both of us. She said she would, but never gave me any reason to believe she did.

Breaking the news to friends and family has been surprisingly easy. I was expecting it to come as a surprise to everyone, and for there to be a bunch of questions concerning the nature of our separation. Apparently, everyone had been able to draw some pretty strong conclusions a long time ago based on all of the Facebook pictures of her partying with other men and none of me, so no one has pried. Once again, I feel like a fool.

I don't know what else to say besides the fact that I keep waiting for the pain to at least dull down, but it hasn't happened yet. A friend of mine, who went through a similar type of separation years ago, said to expect six months to get back to something resembling normal. I haven't even made it six days...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Hang in there Samsung. Take comfort from everyone having caught on to what was going on with her, that only proves further that you are doing the right thing for yourself. Allow yourself to lean on people right now, also be aware that you are going through a grieving process, just like a loved one having passed away. Be gentle on yourself, it will get better.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Just as alcoholics say they plan to attend A.A., but continue drinking, you are making excuses to avoid Al-Anon. It's called codependency. And you have a bad case of it. Pick up a copy of Melodie Beattie's classic, Codependent No More. The concepts in the book may not click right away, just as you may not understand what the heck folks are talking about in Al-Anon, but that is because you are other-focused. The idea is to get the focus off the addict and onto yourself.



Samsung said:


> I find as long as I'm moving and doing things, the pain isn't quite as overwhelming...


The breakup of a relationship is always painful. But, as the saying goes, "When you are going through hell, keep going." You have to understand why you are in pain. A lot of it has to be with your codependency. Trust me. I lived with it for years.



Samsung said:


> ... at the same time I recognize that if I had discovered this book a few years ago, she and I might still be together and making each other happy. I'm not trying to make excuses for her behavior (I realize those were her decisions to make), but at the same time I see that I failed myself and her greatly, and wonder if she would have made the same decisions had I been better.


Here's the problem: you think people "make" one another happy. Happiness is an INSIDE job. Be happy with yourself; don't rely on other people to feed your happiness hunger. She's an alcoholic. They aren't in the "business" of making people happy. Quite the opposite. Also, you need to completely understand the 3 C's of Al-Anon as it pertains to the alcoholic: You didn't CAUSE it, you cannot CONTROL it, and you cannot CURE it.

Sadly, you are in love with your wife's potential. That is WHAT IF thinking. Unfortunately, WHAT IS, is you have a drunk on your hands. And one who will disappoint your expectations every time.

You really need Al-Anon. The only request made of newbies is that they try six meetings. If it's not your cup of tea, then fine. But this is no longer about her; it's about you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You *will *make it Samsung. 

I doubt any of us would say it's a quick and easy process but the hurt lessens over time.

Staying busy helps.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Checking in on you Samsung, how are things going?


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

Sorry it's been so long since I've updated. Things have been really up in the air for me lately, and I suppose I just haven't really had words for what's been going on. It's been 21 days since I left, and I've been surprised at how long it's taking to let go. I find I have an equal mix of good and bad days, and am never really sure what it's going to be in advance. I recognize the depression for what it is, and feel like I should be able to logically work my way out of it, but once it hits I find it to be pretty debilitating. 

Frankly, I'm not even sure I'm completely through the "denial" phase of things yet. I still find myself daydreaming of what it would be like for us to reunite, and then snap out of it and have to let go of her all over again. 

I suppose it doesn't help that my whole life is out of order at the moment. I'm bouncing back and forth between relatives houses while applying for jobs, and none of them really seem certain of how to deal with me. It's not that they don't make me feel welcome, it's just that somehow their presence is not as comforting as I would have hoped. There's a hole in my heart that feels like it will never be filled.

I've been trying to get out and do stuff, but it's Mississippi, so there isn't much outside of bars, which I can't stand. I have some friends in the area, but they're all pretty busy with their own lives these days. I've been trying to use the time to expand my education with some certifications that will hopefully give me the edge on the job hunt. It's kind of hard to concentrate, but I'm making some headway.

Outside of that, I pretty much spend my time sitting by the phone and computer, waiting for one of the many applications I've been sending out to net me an interview. Given the bleakness of the job market at the moment, it's hard not to let my negativity bleed over into my expectations for a decent job. I'm trying to stay optimistic, and keep firing out those resumes.

I hope everyone is well. I'll try to update more often.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Three weeks is not long at all, no one can let go that quickly. Take it easy on yourself, it sounds like you are actually doing pretty good. Things will fall in place for you soon.


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## Samsung (Apr 13, 2013)

I realize that you guys are probably a little tired of hearing me complain about all the bad stuff in my life, but without anyone I can really talk to about these things, this has kind of become a dumping ground for my darker moods.

It is my birthday, and although it's been several years since I had any desire for anyone to make a fuss over such things, it has very much highlighted how alone I am. My family and friends are busy with more important things, and I've been left to fend for myself this year. Any illusions I had about being back here somehow helping with the separation from my wife have long since been shattered. If anything, I've discovered that my family is very used to leaning on my as an emotional anchor, and now that I need some grounding they don't know what to do with me. I want nothing more than to get away from here and start fresh, but can't seem to land a job that will allow it. I keep waiting for things to get better, but they seem to just keep getting worse.

I suppose that I had entertained hope in the back of my head that separation would allow my wife to realize that I was more important to her than the habits she hurt me with. I've entertained hope that I would eventually receive that phone call or email that would show she wanted to fix this, so that we could find a way to be together down the road. At least then I would have a goal to work towards. It's been over a month since I left, and it's starting to sink in that it's not going to happen. For all I know I've probably already been replaced.

I know that what I asked of her was the least anyone should expect out of a marriage, and I know I did the right thing when I removed myself from that situation, but I'm left feeling like I made a terrible mistake. I can't stop missing her and wondering if there isn't something else I could have done to fix things. Despite all the hurt, she was my best friend and I was sure we were going to grow old together. Right up until the moment I walked out the door, I was sure she would realize her mistake and ask me to stay. I have a hard time understanding how I can still feel so strongly for someone who seems to care so little for me.

I'm starting to feel stretched pretty thin. I've tried to remain optimistic that things would eventually have to start going my way, but time is proving that theory wrong. I feel as if I've broken my life beyond fixing.

Sorry to be all doom and gloom... It's just been a tough week. I hope to have some positive news for a change next time I post.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

*HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!*

Things will get better. We've all been there. It's still very new right now and you are unsettled. 

But things really *will *get better.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Happy birthday!! :toast:

Samsung, you DO have a goal to work toward, building a new life for the new you. Just hang in there, I know a lot of days it feels like you are trying to walk through sludge, but I promise that it does get better. You WILL find a job. I know this isnt how you envisioned your life's path, but it will lead you to something better, just keep following it.


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## silkpalace (May 17, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> This isn't just about cake-eating, deception, partying, and/or hanging with an inappropriate crowd. It's about addiction; specifically, alcoholism.
> 
> Okay, I'm going to say this because I have lived in the laa-laa land of insanity. Please, DO NOT take this as an insult, or that I am the grand guru of addictions ... but many of you well-meaning folks are what we call "normies." A "normie" wouldn't understand the progressive nature of alcoholism, nor would they be familiar with the downslide into insanity that is part and parcel when living with an addict. And when I say "downslide" I mean the crazy behavior that becomes part of everyone's life in such an environment.
> 
> ...


Wow....I totally agree with you.....My H has been an A for years, and I didn't realize the "insanity" of my life until I finally ran to an AlAnon meeting one night. It's taken about 11 months for me to realize that I cannot and never will be able to control my H's addiction. He was not a social drinker....except on the rare occasions we went to parties or events....but I tried and tried for years to "manage" his drinking. I love him!!! His behavior at times was absolutely insane......I finally left him about 2 months ago....went to AlAnon 3 times a week, got myself a therapist, spoke to my primary care doctor and am trying to heal myself. Do I miss many aspects of our marriage? Yes. But, he doesn't "get it". He thinks he can stop drinking without being in any type of recovery program. He thinks because he once stopped for 72 days, I should give him another chance. Last night he asked me when I was coming back. And I had to tell him that I don't want to be married to him anymore.....because I cannot even think of staying married to him because I can no longer tolerate living with the consequences that come with living with an addict. I DESERVE more! I told him I love him and always will, but I hit my "rock bottom" ! I don't blame him. I don't blame myself. His disease progressed and I in many ways enabled "bad behavior". I knew I was not a "normie" when I started following him, searching for bottles in his shoes, clothing, etc., constantly turned down invitations because I knew he would drink too much, DREADED every single holiday, and finally after those 72 days of not drinking....on the 73rd his behavior seemed "different" and I took his photo to the local liquor store and asked the owners if he came in today.......Normies do not have to play "detective"


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## Mycah (May 31, 2013)

Everything that any one has said is applied to me. I live with an alcoholic who promises things will change every time I threaten to leave. This time will be different and like you I look into his eyes and fool myself into believing he loves me and will change. Fast forward to 15years and I'm still going thru the same crap. Worse I've out my two beautiful daughters thru this as well.

I am at the end of my tether so decided to see a mediator to see if I can get him to move out of the house amicably. Appointment set but thought I'd try to talk to him reasonable as he wasn't drinking today. End results a shouting match as he can't see what he's doing wrong. He feels he's minding his own business and should keep on living with this tense situation until he decides what he wants. He understands the marriage is finished because I don't response to his sexual demands. The fact that he's drunk which is a turn off has nothing to do with it.

As some said earlier the alcoholic will put the blame squarely on everyone's shoulders except his own. They are the biggest bulls---ers of all. They convince them selfs that they are always right.

I'm powerless at this stage. I can't move as my daughter is doing her HSC (high school cert). Does he care that its stressing her out. NO. In fact he said he didn't give a damn how it was stressing her out but he will it move out. If we're so unhappy then we should go. That's fatherly love and concern. She's heartbroken which makes me feel even worse to put her thru this.

Sorry to rant on but needed to get that out. Get out while you can. Don't wait for kids to come into the picture as it makes it harder to move on. She'll promise you the world when you say you'll move then ignore you the next.

Take care. Thank you all for hearing me out as well


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## Mycah (May 31, 2013)

Ps happy birthday Samsung


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