# How to move sex life forward - can't even talk to her about it



## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

After many good years in our early relationship, my wife and I have had relationship difficulty for many years. Sex became much less important to her after our child and leading up to the baby, sex only meant making a baby to her.

Now we are past the early child years and I would like to liven things up in terms of both frequency and adventure. I have a very high sex drive and crave some level of adventure, although still tame by many peoples' standards. Most of her friends (all mothers too) are complaining that their husbands are boring in bed and have little interest in sex. I am still very physically attracted to her and I believe she feels the same about me. I have a looming health condition but for now we can both have sex without concern for health or other serious life problems. I am frustrated that we are not making the most of it while we can.

I have tried talking to her about it. I have a few things in mind to try and when trying to talk to her about it, apathy is mainly the response. I approached the couple of conversations we've had with a great amount of flexibility. I wanted to raise some ideas of my own but also to see what her ideas were (e.g. trying to explore some of her fantasies that we could live out for real or perhaps talk about or act out when having sex). So mainly she has discounted my ideas and gave none of her own. I was not just talking about acts but also about fantasies and memories that we could explore in bed. Again, I did not push and would be willing to follow any spark in her rather than push a specific agenda that I might have.

Once again I tried to talk to her about 'spicing things up in our marriage' and she suggested that we play cards (no not sexy games) to have more fun. Great idea if we were 90 years old. When I later commented (nicely and with a bit of humor) about how pathetic this response was, she said that she just misunderstood (yeah right) but then made no attempt to address what I was really talking about. With the misunderstanding cleared up I tried to have the conversation again with no luck.

I am out of ideas to address this and I don't feel right about bringing up the topic again when she dismissed it already several times. I don't want to be a pushy creep. Out of frustration, I sometimes take to sulking which I know is counter-productive.

I believe we both have some resentment which may be underlying this but I don't know if it's just resentment or simply the common sexual decline in her after children and starting to get older. How can I open up the lines of communication with her without once again feeling hurt and embarrassed. We've always been very open and never embarrassed about talking about sex but now I feel awkward raising it when she seems so apathetic about it. I never felt embarrassed or awkward talking about sex with her before. what can I do?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You're going to have to take the lead on this. You want adventure, then take her hand and lead her there. Complaining that there is no adventure while the two of you sit there and play bridge will get you nowhere.

Have you ever heard the saying that it's better to ask forgiveness than permission? Ya, that applies here. Pushy creep? That's you thinking that, not her.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

To clarify two points to avoid misunderstanding:

1. we do have sex about 2 times a week. As I said, I would like to improve the frequency of sex, its priority and importance in our relationship and I would like to explore new things. I have a high sex drive and sex has always been very important to me. I'm tired of being in the doldrums with sex and I want to explore with her. Too many men explore without their partners (affairs, porn, escorts, on-line relationships, etc, etc). I do not want this. I would be completely happy with her if she felt the same way.

2. I am not meek with her. I do take the lead and I am aggressive in bed when the time is right. I want to discuss how to improve our sex life and explore new things so it's not that I'm afraid to ask her why she won't have sex. This is not the issue. I have many times tried to talk about fantasies,etc when we are having sex or fooling around. She closes down. She will do the same things from the repertoire which is not limited but after so many years I want to explore new things and explore each other's fantasies and generally be more open and intimate.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> You're going to have to take the lead on this. You want adventure, then take her hand and lead her there. Complaining that there is no adventure while the two of you sit there and play bridge will get you nowhere.
> 
> Have you ever heard the saying that it's better to ask forgiveness than permission? Ya, that applies here. Pushy creep? That's you thinking that, not her.


You do make some good points but trying to talk openly with someone about sex when clearly they are not interested in discussing the topic is a serious downer. It makes you feel creepy if you keep pushing on that closed door.

Your 'just do it' remark does have some merit but please see my recent other reply...i have tried that and it's met with the same well defined boundaries as soon as you try to cross out of the usual repertoire.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

couple said:


> After many good years in our early relationship, my wife and I have had relationship difficulty for many years. Sex became much less important to her after our child and leading up to the baby, sex only meant making a baby to her.


It seems that everyone on this board (I didn't read all the responses to this thread) thinks the sex life every man wants is the sex life every man is supposed to have just because the woman is his wife. I'm sorry, but I do not subscribe to what seems to be the popular belief that this (what this OP is expecting) is his wife's "duty." 

There are lots of reasons for the sex life to dwindle in a relationship, but dwindling is not even the case here. He clearly did not marry a woman who was interested in sex at all, at least certainly not for the pleasure of it.....or the pastime. Therefore, it is wrong for everyone to make him feel he is justified in his expectation and for them to try helping him solve his problem of wanting more sex and to spice things up.

Many of the men on these boards express in so many words that women should just do it. Some have outright asked the question "what is so hard about her just opening her legs?" That is ridiculous, not to mention insensitive and just down right bullish. The really horrific part is some of the women here seem to feel the same way. There are many reasons some women don't want sex, and this woman is as entitled to be the way she is just as everyone seems to feel this man is entitled to be the way he is. If he builds resentment in a woman by day, then she doesn't want to have sex at night. If he is a terrible lover, does not satisfy her, or is just simply inadequate to her in the sex department, then she does not want to have sex. If she gets nothing out of the act, then she does not want to have sex. If by her nature, she simply does not have any sexual desire, she does not want to have sex. It seems to me one of the two latter points is what is going on with his wife because I refuse to believe a sexually fulfilled woman does not want to be sexually fulfilled on a regular and continual basis. 

Generally, women have absolutely no idea how important sex is to a man, particularly women who do not have sexual desire themselves. This kind of woman still wants to get married and have children. She still wants the family, and this is the kind of woman the OP married, and he KNEW it. How can he expect more than how he knew it was going to be? Why is she obligated to serve his sexual needs that are so much more than her own? She tries every way she can to avoid sex with him and even the discussion of sex, but he is determined he will twist and turn her mind so she will give him what he wants......and everyone justifies him and trieds to help him. This is craziness in action. No one here has any idea why this woman is the way she is and has no respect for the way she is. She's just automatically wrong.

For the record, I have a high sex drive, but I've been where she is with a guy who was completely useless to me in bed. I was repulsed by his inadequacies (no, I am not talking about size) at his age (over 50) and was repulsed by his way of thinking that my only purpose was to serve him, as if the act was not supposed to be for me too. I left him after 3 months and finally realized nothing about him or our relationship was going to improve, and I spent time with a former boyfriend in the meanwhile. I was not going to be treated that way (along with his abuse), and I certainly wasn't going to treated like his concubine. Some women are perfectly happy to live that way and are perfectly happy to live not wanting to have sex with their husband, but they still want to be married and have a family. No one has the right to demand she provide so much more for him just because she is his wife than the sex life was from the beginning.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

River...you are making a lot of incorrect assumptions here. First, she, like many woman, was very into sex from the beginning as was I. We were extremely compatible. she's changed and I've changed. Nothing unusual. I'm just asking for advice on how to deal with it. And before you make more assumptions, I'm not saying that just because she was more sexual back then, she should be now.

I'm not saying that she's wrong. This is a relationship problem that I'm trying to work out. It's not a matter of who's right and who's wrong. If i were more like her friends' husbands, then perhaps there wouldn't be a problem.

She brags to her friends that i'm so good in bed when they complain about their husbands so i don't know if she finds me inadequate or not. She at least likes the idea of a horny husband.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Here are some ideas to spice up your sex life:

Sex toys
Dressing up and role playing
Mild bondage
Long, slow massages with oil
Watching porn together (must be mutually pleasant)
Soaping each other up in the shower
Teasing with feathers
Different places in the house or outside

You did mention resentment, so make sure that you have an honest conversation with her about this. Resentment kills desire.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*simply the common sexual decline in her after children and starting to get older.*

I don't think there IS a common decline. I think it's something SOME women perpetuate when THEY want a decline. 

The only thing I can think of.... is to figure out how to meet her needs outside the bedroom. You can't make her talk about it... though wouldn't life be so much easier if people who f^ck would just TALK too?! But, you can give it your best shot... think "dating" and woo her. Introduce new ideas, positions, locations, toys, or whatever as she gets more "into you"... when she's feeling sexy. Can't hurt to try!


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

first of all I wouldn't bother trying to justify yourself to "River" who seems to have her own resentment towards some man fueling her response. I think you sound like a good guy..you have some things you'd like to experience with your wife and you are trying to pursue it in a caring respectful way. I am wondering...are you sure what you are describing as "anxiety" at your touch , is actually anxiety and not more tension/resentment? I find when my husband husband initiates sex by rubbing my back or legs, or my head...basically non-sexual areas, first...I am MUCH more relaxed and responsive to the progression to sexual touch. When he starts out by touching my breasts, buttocks, or vagina...I feel really tense and sort of angry. It's hard for some people, I think women in particular, to go from not thinking sexually at all, to suddenly being in the mood and responding to sexual touch in the manner desired by the initiator.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your wife understands perfectly well what you want. She just doesn't particularly care. She's getting whatever she needs from you regardless of her active participation. In most aspects of life, we get what we give. For her, she can play the role of card playing granny and yet you still treat her as an adored, sexual being. You are safely in her sack and she probably feels she doesn't have to go out of her way to keep you interested.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Thank you for the good advice so far. It's useful to talk this out.

She does get horny and wants sex sometimes. However, I feel that there is an intimacy barrier there. It's nice to see her horny and the usual repertoire is enough to satisfy her need. She doesn't seem to have any reason to branch out beyond this any longer. In the early years we would make more effort to do new things (outside, in car, etc.). Obviously life changes and other priorities and stresses move in. All I want is that on the weekends after all the family activities are done and week's work stresses are temporarily suspended, we take time to really focus on sex.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I thought her comment about playing cards was rather interesting...as it definitely shows what her mindset is.

She seems contented with the sex that you guys are having. I wonder why she also seems contented to not be willing to try things because you would like them? Why do you think that is?

What is your general relationship like? If she was building up resentments, what do you think they would be about?

Do you think the card comment was just off-hand, a deliberate attempt to distract/disarm you, or a genuine attempt to say she'd like to see you two connect more outside the bedroom?

As always, I think that how people interact and connect with each other outside the bedroom has a tremendous impact on what happens inside the bedroom. 

Best wishes.


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## MeetVirginia (Feb 17, 2012)

I have to say that to my husband I am one of "those" women who doesnt like sex. There are some issues that have evolved that are personal with him, but things changed for me way before that, like when i was in labor with our first child and they said "PUSH". I dont know about other women, but everything changed for me at that moment. Even though he still thinks I am beautiful and sexy, I just cannot open myself up to him sexually and enjoy myself that way with him after he saw me that way. In my head I know that is ridiculous....but its how i feel. The things he has seen my body do and go through....I just cant see myself as a sexual being to him. And he would NEVER believe it, but I LOVE sex and crave it.....but when it comes down to it with him....i just cant do it......therefore, we are now seperated


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MeetVirginia said:


> I have to say that to my husband I am one of "those" women who doesnt like sex. There are some issues that have evolved that are personal with him, but things changed for me way before that, like when i was in labor with our first child and they said "PUSH". I dont know about other women, but everything changed for me at that moment. Even though he still thinks I am beautiful and sexy, I just cannot open myself up to him sexually and enjoy myself that way with him after he saw me that way. In my head I know that is ridiculous....but its how i feel. The things he has seen my body do and go through....I just cant see myself as a sexual being to him. And he would NEVER believe it, but I LOVE sex and crave it.....but when it comes down to it with him....i just cant do it......therefore, we are now seperated


What steps did you take to attempt to address / remediate this?


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## MeetVirginia (Feb 17, 2012)

I have been on medication, been to therapy, had hormone levels checked by docs, etc.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MeetVirginia said:


> I have been on medication, been to therapy, had hormone levels checked by docs, etc.


= If you could have solved it by any reasonable means, it would have been solved.

Sorry that your efforts weren't more successful.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Unfortunately, you can't change your spouse, but you can change yourself. My situation is improving thanks to some changes I made starting a few months back. I dropped about 20lbs (on my way to 40). The biggest change has come in the last few weeks. I went on a work paid sabbatical which gave me time to evaluate and examine myself. It became obvious to me that I'd forgotten who I was. I had put my man parts in a display case as a wedding gift. I wasn't fun, adventurous, assertive, confident, desirable, etc. I didn't like myself at all when I looked in the mirror. How could I expect my wife to be turned on by me? I'd turned myself into a lion in captivity because I thought it would please her and be good for us. A lion in captivity is like a circus or Vegas show with gay men in tight tights parading you around for enthralled spectators. That's cool if you like circuses, but few women have an affinity for clowns. 

You'll see a lot of talk on here about the LD person and how sex is the problem. I was one of them and I'm still a recovering blamer. It may be THE issue and be that simple. It may not be. Certainly in my mind, it was the only issue I cared about. There may be other things that you've done or stopped doing that are contributing to the problem. She probably has a list if you asked. I wouldn't ask though. That would be playing by the rules of the current game. The point is to change them and to carefully shake things up with the minimal amount of collateral damage. 

On one hand, I totally blamed my wife for the issue. I absolutely agree that sex should be an obligation that both spouses should take care of. It shouldn't be a tool used to get what they want or denied unless there is a very good reason. It's no different than the other commitments that people expect in marriage. It should be that simple but its not because we're dealing with "feelings". She doesn't feel you and that hurts your feelings. It's a downward spiral that seems pretty hopeless when your circling the toilet bowl. 

The best advice I can give is to remove yourself from the equation as much as possible. If you step up your game as a man and become more desirable, its going to be good for you no matter what your wife's response is. Take that anger/frustration and lift some weights, run, bike, etc. Hopefully if she notices you are dressing nicer, working out more and spending less time begging for sex that something is up. She's going to think you may be cheating or ready to cheat, game changer! If some of her friends notice you're looking good, even better. If some female friends on your favorite social media make a comments about you looking good, etc...JACKPOT! It's a nice and subtle way of changing the rules of the game without fighting or having conversations about your needs and how much she sucks (or doesn't). Hopefully her response to the change will be to step up her game and go into "keep man happy mode" which would include making the bedroom a much happier place for you. The best thing about this approach is the change will be by "her" choice, not by coercion. Nothing gets a woman hotter for the one she's with than seeing that other women want you. Why do you think "married" men get more action at a singles bar? 

You can talk about sex with an uncooperative spouse until you're both frustrated and not get anywhere. I know that doesn't work well. I've ridden that horse into the ground. IMHO, the MMSL blog/book is a must. The 2012 update to the book comes out next month. If you can't wait, get the current one. It will give you a lot of things to think about in how to approach the problem from a perspective that is decidedly different than the typical self-help relationship book. Not that the mars/venus type books aren't good, but lets be honest. They are written to address communication issues between spouses so they understand each other. 

When the relationship was new and fresh, I'm guessing your relationship (like mine) was hot and constructive communication was a natural byproduct of the attraction and bonding that was going on in and around the bedroom. The mars/venus approach is like a tennis match. Both of you have to volley back and forth about all the things you did to get you where you are now until things get better. Taking out the trash is necessary at regular intervals in every relationship, but its gonna go much quicker if things are already heated up in the bedroom. Which approach sounds more exciting? A tennis match where you keep score, eventually getting a hug at love-love, or...mixed martial arts; using the "strengths" against your opponent to (hopefully) pin her to the ground in her favorite submission hold and have your way with her? 

There are some great resources on here besides that one, but I gotta say what the MMSL has to say struck a chord with me and I've only managed to get through 1/3 of it so far. The most important thing is to not give up. Don't get discouraged if things get worse for the short term or if you first effort gets shot down. Keep trying things and don't get comfortable when things start to look up. Keep doing what works but also keep looking for ways to keep the trend moving where you want the relationship to be. Good luck!


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## hoag (Mar 7, 2012)

MeetVirginia said:


> I have to say that to my husband I am one of "those" women who doesnt like sex. There are some issues that have evolved that are personal with him, but things changed for me way before that, like when i was in labor with our first child and they said "PUSH". I dont know about other women, but everything changed for me at that moment. Even though he still thinks I am beautiful and sexy, I just cannot open myself up to him sexually and enjoy myself that way with him after he saw me that way. In my head I know that is ridiculous....but its how i feel. The things he has seen my body do and go through....I just cant see myself as a sexual being to him. And he would NEVER believe it, but I LOVE sex and crave it.....but when it comes down to it with him....i just cant do it......therefore, we are now seperated



It is sad that you cannot get past your thoughts. For me, after seeing my wife give birth to our children, I think that she is even more sexy. I look at her now and think about the whole pregnancy and birth giving, and I get turned on looking at her. Our youngest is now 14.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

phantomfan said:


> Unfortunately, you can't change your spouse, but you can change yourself. My situation is improving thanks to some changes I made starting a few months back. I dropped about 20lbs (on my way to 40). The biggest change has come in the last few weeks. I went on a work paid sabbatical which gave me time to evaluate and examine myself. It became obvious to me that I'd forgotten who I was. I had put my man parts in a display case as a wedding gift. I wasn't fun, adventurous, assertive, confident, desirable, etc. I didn't like myself at all when I looked in the mirror. How could I expect my wife to be turned on by me? I'd turned myself into a lion in captivity because I thought it would please her and be good for us. A lion in captivity is like a circus or Vegas show with gay men in tight tights parading you around for enthralled spectators. That's cool if you like circuses, but few women have an affinity for clowns.
> 
> You'll see a lot of talk on here about the LD person and how sex is the problem. I was one of them and I'm still a recovering blamer. It may be THE issue and be that simple. It may not be. Certainly in my mind, it was the only issue I cared about. There may be other things that you've done or stopped doing that are contributing to the problem. She probably has a list if you asked. I wouldn't ask though. That would be playing by the rules of the current game. The point is to change them and to carefully shake things up with the minimal amount of collateral damage.
> 
> ...


@phantom ~

This is a very nice update from you compared with some of the first posts you started out with. 

I'm happy to see that you seem to be making some solid progress in your mentality, and hope things will continue on an upward trajectory.

Best wishes.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> @phantom ~
> 
> This is a very nice update from you compared with some of the first posts you started out with.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I do too. I expect more bumps but I can't remember a better couple days in and out of the bedroom in the last few years. It's either been plain old boring or fighting. I know I wasn't sure how things were going to play out when I got home, even after I got home there were a few tense and distant hours but things slowly warmed up from tense to intense. I was pleasantly surprised that things were as good as I could have hoped for. That I give her full credit for. She was ready to compete for me (long story goes here). I took the positive and ran with it like a man would. I'm going to keep working on me regardless and know that it can only make things better. I do owe most of my new understanding to this forum, MMSL and the No More Mr Nice Guy book. It's not that I think I was wrong but I'm more interested in a solution than being right. Plus, there's nothing hotter than having the woman you love turn into an animal on you. Maybe I still got it? Maybe I found it again...either way, WAHOO!:smthumbup:


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