# Need some opinions.



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

Hi, I'm new here, sighed up because I have a little dilemma, let me explain. 

some info first, I've been married for 11 years and we have 3 children, our marriage is ok, we both work and get on ok (as most married couples do)

A couple of months ago my wife went on a girly night out, (she only goes out a couple times a year and I don't go out at all) but anyway, it got to 4am and I awoke to find she wasn't home yet so I rang her phone, no answer, so I rang her sister who she went out with that night and she said that she came back at 12.30 without her but left her with friends, so I rang her phone again and again in intervals of about 20mins a time, still no answer, 6.15am came and by now I'm going out of my mind, so I rang her once more this time she answered and said she was coming home in a taxi, she walked in at 6.30am, and I was angry to say the least, I asked her where she'd been and she said that she went to a bar and then just came home (the bar she said closes at 3am) so I asked her how has it taken her 3 & half hours to get home when she could of walked it in 30mins, she still couldn't account for the lost time and it was left at that.

About a week later I found text messages on her phone from a guy who asked when she was aloud out again and said he still had her panties at his, so I confronted her and she went red with embarrassment, and looked flummoxed, she then told me that she wet herself and used his loo, I laughed. I have told her that I think she had a one night stand and that I don't trust her anymore, but she flatly denies it, she said that she will not go out anymore and realises that coming home at 6.30 in the morning is unacceptable for a married women. Since then we have been getting on really well, 

What do you think ?


----------



## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

TBH with you, I would see the excuse as a cover up for something more serious. the fact that she made up an escape story that frankly looks like a school girl lie seems to indicate that she went to another guys house. her sister may be fully aware of what was going on and went home at 12:30 not to be involved. Your W then spends a night with this guy at a party. Id be in her face now asking for the full truth. Id make it clear that Id not rest until she came clean about EVERYTHING that happened.. Id also tell her you want a STI check done. If she was drinking all those hours she'd have been close to out cold. So something broke the night up and I doubt it was re-runs of the Waltons.

The time home is completely unacceptable. There was no thought about her family. You did the right thing and rang around, after all she could have been dead in a gutter somewhere.

As for being "all right now". Sorry, I suspect she thinks shes got away with some sexual high jinks and youve left her off the hook.


----------



## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Time to take a polygraph test.

Did she cheat?
Was it the first time?
Does her sister know?

Take a polygraph test.


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Bert said:


> Hi, I'm new here, sighed up because I have a little dilemma, let me explain.
> 
> some info first, I've been married for 11 years and we have 3 children, our marriage is ok, we both work and get on ok (as most married couples do)
> 
> ...


She is lying. I am 100% certain.

Read up about the 180, she deserves it. She deserves it for the lying, nevermind the cheating, because the lying means she intends to carry on, and is not sorry about it, and she thinks you are a sad fool.

Time to prove her wrong!

Gather all evidence, make any moves without informing her.

Time to be strong, detached and efficient about this.

Come one AP - you know she's lying. Why the polygraph - to pressure her perhaps? Then maybe.


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

Thx for the reply's, I know she is lying, to many facts to say she got up to something and none to prove otherwise, I have already suggested a polygraph test and she was all for it, (oddly enough) so its a case of just booking it in.
I also secretly installed an app on her phone which logs all txt, calls, and GPS locations etc (even deleted ones) a bit wrong I had to do that but she left me no choice. 
She has not been in touch with this guy since nor has he contacted her.
I'm still in two minds what to do, but im glad I didn't make no hasty decision at the time as I was in a bad place, but still cant make my mind up.


----------



## Marigold (Oct 29, 2010)

I agree, it was one night stand. But it is difficult when there is no trust. Will polygraph help? All I mean is maybe it could help to think about what you will do with the answer first...if she is telling the truth, will you just 'forget it' or is there still doubt because the tests not 100%? If she's lying then have you thought about what you would do with that result? Might be good to think though more before going ahead?


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

Marigold said:


> I agree, it was one night stand. But it is difficult when there is no trust. Will polygraph help? All I mean is maybe it could help to think about what you will do with the answer first...if she is telling the truth, will you just 'forget it' or is there still doubt because the tests not 100%? If she's lying then have you thought about what you would do with that result? Might be good to think though more before going ahead?


I would be inclined to trust the polygraph, and then act, but I have a feeling she would still lie even if the polygraph proves that she is lying.


----------



## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Bert said:


> Thx for the reply's, I know she is lying, to many facts to say she got up to something and none to prove otherwise, *I have already suggested a polygraph test and she was all for it, (oddly enough) so its a case of just booking it in.*
> I also secretly installed an app on her phone which logs all txt, calls, and GPS locations etc (even deleted ones) a bit wrong I had to do that but she left me no choice.
> She has not been in touch with this guy since nor has he contacted her.
> I'm still in two minds what to do, but im glad I didn't make no hasty decision at the time as I was in a bad place, but still cant make my mind up.


That's her playing poker with you, seeing if you're bluffing. Take it as absolutely far as you need to, and I guarantee you'll get a parking lot confession.

And you should still have it done even if that happens.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Insist that you BOTH go for STD tests *next week *if you haven't already done so. (If she's embarrassed or insulted, tough cr*p!)

Set up the polygraph test for next week; no excuses from her.

Decide what you will do based on the information from the polygraph. Assume it's going to be accurate; unless your wife has lots of experience with polygraphs [which she doesn't], or is a sociopath [which she isn't], or an extremely nervous type of person [which it doesn't sound like], she should not be able to 'fool' or screw up the polygraph.

Tell her ahead of time exactly what will happen depending on the polygraph test results.


Go for it; it's the only shot at piece of mind you'll have.
.


----------



## MarthaMellow (Dec 30, 2013)

Bert - she cheated on you. She's playing chicken with you on the polygraph. Why wouldn't she? There's always the chance you won't follow up on it and then she's in the clear.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Bert said:


> *About a week later I found text messages on her phone from a guy who asked when she was aloud out again and said he still had her panties at his*, so I confronted her and she went red with embarrassment, and looked flummoxed, she then told me that she wet herself and used his loo, I laughed.


Uh, why didn't your START your post with that tidbit?

She likely cheated on you. I really can't see any reason for her to have left panties at some dude's house, the same dude who asked he when she was allowed to come out again--meaning, they def spent time together. 

So now what do you want to do?

Get tested for STDs.


----------



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Sounds like my first wife


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Don't fall back, stand pat, go through with the poly and STD testing as the others have suggested.

Does she have a problem with impulse control? How about alcohol? 

What kind of friends does she associate with? Are they married, single, divorced? Do you know what they are like? Do their husbands know what went on that night or what happens on these GNO? Needless to say, she ought not be around this crowd. I assume she won't be out without you for quite a long time.

Do you know this fellow? How did she meet him? Was he introduced to her? Is he local or familiar to her or her friends? Does he know you know about him? Has he been told yet, never to contact her again?


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm curious as to why she gave her phone number out to a guy she just met at a bar and allegedly went home with. It's rather odd that he was able to text her a week later, if you ask me.

I could be wrong, but in my experience, little more than first names are exchanged in these types of scenarios, especially with married folks. "Friendships" aren't usually born of these things, nor is further contact, again, especially when one or both of the parties are married.

Furthermore, if he is known to the OP and/or to the wife, then he would know that she is married, and sending a text like that doesn't seem logical. So it sounds like this was a random ONS, which leads me, again, to "why does he have her #?".

I'd like to see an explanation from the OP (perhaps via asking his wife) as to why/how this man has her phone #. Because, to be perfectly blunt, this little bit of information seems a little on the convenient side..

Personally, this would have been one of the first questions I'd have asked. Who is this guy, and why does he have your #? ESPECIALLY if you say you didn't do anything with him.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

I am uncomfortable with all the talk of polygraphs. She is your wife, not a common criminal. And they cost money too.

Plus it's not necessary. You want to find out what happened? Call the guy with the panties back and ask him. Or text him pretending to be your wife. With a polygraph you will get only yes and no answers. From him you will get a more full description.


----------



## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Theseus said:


> I am uncomfortable with all the talk of polygraphs. She is your wife, not a common criminal. And they cost money too.
> 
> Plus it's not necessary. You want to find out what happened? Call the guy with the panties back and ask him. Or text him pretending to be your wife. With a polygraph you will get only yes and no answers. From him you will get a more full description.


Aye, but this behaviour - for whatever reason - is outrageous, and the onus is on her to prove otherwise.

Ask yourself honestly - if your partner had been out till God knows when, lost her/his underwear at some strangers house, and then choked when the person rings to say they've found their undies... come on now... we've established decades ago that ignoring the signs is fatal. Better to confront and be found a fool for a few months - and yet a lesson (that there will be investigation!) is nevertheless learnt -

Than to be a fool for years because "he bought my story".


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Don't fall back, stand pat, go through with the poly and STD testing as the others have suggested.
> 
> Does she have a problem with impulse control? How about alcohol?
> 
> ...


She doesn't have a problem with alcohol but when she gets drunk she completely changes, and yes she would have been drunk that night. The friends she went out with that night where work colleges, (all women). And no I don't know this fellow, she said he was just an old friend, and I think he was only present toward the end of the night.


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

alexm said:


> I'm curious as to why she gave her phone number out to a guy she just met at a bar and allegedly went home with. It's rather odd that he was able to text her a week later, if you ask me.
> 
> I could be wrong, but in my experience, little more than first names are exchanged in these types of scenarios, especially with married folks. "Friendships" aren't usually born of these things, nor is further contact, again, especially when one or both of the parties are married.
> 
> ...




Because they were old friends going back to before the time when cell phones were wide spread and felt the need to exchange numbers.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The absolute most likely truth is that she spent the night having sex with an 'old friend' and her sister knows the whole story. This wasn't getting very drunk and sleeping with an enticing stranger.

I think you know the basics of what happened. The polygraph bluff is very common. She is hoping you will be reassured enough by her willingness to take the test that you will drop it (thus the famed parking lot confessions noted earlier).

If I were you, I would think carefully about what you want and/or can live with at this point. You already pretty much know the truth. Is it a dealbreaker for you?


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Bert said:


> She doesn't have a problem with alcohol but when she gets drunk she completely changes, and yes she would have been drunk that night. The friends she went out with that night where work colleges, (all women). And no I don't know this fellow, she said he was just an old friend, and I think he was only present toward the end of the night.





Bert said:


> Because they were old friends going back to before the time when cell phones were wide spread and felt the need to exchange numbers.


If she is completely changed when she drinks, in that she looses impulse control to that extent, she has a problem with alcohol.

She went out on the town with her friends, acting like a single girl. Then the familiarity of an old acquaintance/boy friend (That's not a one night stand) and the alcohol allowed her to continue the party and drop her panties. What a slippery slop she embarked upon that night.

How often does she do that for you? Are you having sex on a regular basis? 

Check her phone records for when they had first contact. Their meeting may have been planed before that night, or during it. 

Get a hold of him and put an end to any further contact. Let her understand she can never contact him again , or you walk. 

Here, start reading this today...
Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

Pick it up ASAP

Good luck


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Bert said:


> Because they were old friends going back to before the time when cell phones were wide spread and felt the need to exchange numbers.


Fair enough.

That begs the question, were they friends back then, or more? Or do you know?

I'm also unclear as to why this guy would text her such a message (provided he knew she was married, of course...)

And lastly, why would she give him her # at all, if they literally just hooked up, and she's going home to her husband? You'll have to ask her that, for sure.

Although the evidence is certainly there, and it doesn't look good (at all) I wouldn't quite be 100% that she did anything with him.

I'm not saying she didn't, I'm saying there is the possibility, however small, that she didn't. Regardless, it certainly seems at least inappropriate. Even if she really did piss herself, what is going to somebody's house and getting out of them going to do? She could have just changed when she got home to her own house, possibly sooner. She could have just taken off her underwear in a public restroom.

However, it's entirely possible she just went back to his house after the bars closed to catch up and have a few more drinks. Still not cool, obviously, but unless she has a history of this type of thing with you, you do have to give her the benefit of the doubt the first time. Because if she didn't do anything, and you're convinced she did, that won't solve anything, then marriage over in T-minus...

But you still have to dig a little deeper. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that. But don't stop digging until there's empirical proof she did, or did not, do anything.

Straight up, if I were in your shoes, I'd be giving this guy a call and straightening it out asap. Introduce yourself, tell him you are ________'s husband (he may not know she's married), tell him the story exactly as you wrote here, (leaving out the part about pissing herself and having to change) and see what he says about your wife being at his house and coming home to you at 6:30am.

As for the girls she was out with, don't even bother asking them. No matter what they tell you, whether it's the truth or not, you won't believe them, so it's not even worth getting them involved. If this goes South, you don't need her friends/family sticking their noses in. Leave this between you, your wife and this guy.


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> The absolute most likely truth is that she spent the night having sex with an 'old friend' and her sister knows the whole story. This wasn't getting very drunk and sleeping with an enticing stranger.
> 
> I think you know the basics of what happened. The polygraph bluff is very common. She is hoping you will be reassured enough by her willingness to take the test that you will drop it (thus the famed parking lot confessions noted earlier).
> 
> If I were you, I would think carefully about what you want and/or can live with at this point. You already pretty much know the truth. Is it a dealbreaker for you?


yes.


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> If she is completely changed when she drinks, in that she looses impulse control to that extent, she has a problem with alcohol.
> 
> She went out on the town with her friends, acting like a single girl. Then the familiarity of an old acquaintance/boy friend (That's not a one night stand) and the alcohol allowed her to continue the party and drop her panties. What a slippery slop she embarked upon that night.
> 
> ...


I have already been in touch with him a few days after I red the txt, I rang him and introduced myself and told him I have seen the txt and wanted to know how he's come by my wife's undies, he basically stuttered and babbled for a few minutes (he didn't know what to say) and then I said that if he contacted my wife again that he would only end up messing up the lives of 3 young kids. He agreed, and that was that.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If this is a dealbreaker, as you say, then you can go several ways:

- You can decide that you simply don't believe her story and that you don't need further proof. In this case, just file for D now.

Or

- Push as hard as you can to get some truth out of her. Some people really need as many facts as possible before they pull the divorce trigger, understandably. In this case, following through with the poly would be a good first step. 

Honestly, given your story, I wouldn't believe a poly that appeared to exonerate her. I would just use it as a tool to get her to crack.


----------



## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Bert said:


> I have already been in touch with him a few days after I red the txt, I rang him and introduced myself and told him I have seen the txt and wanted to know how he's come by my wife's undies, he basically stuttered and babbled for a few minutes (he didn't know what to say) and then I said that if he contacted my wife again that he would only end up messing up the lives of 3 young kids. He agreed.


Good. That shows you're a man that's not afraid to take action and will defend his family. If he contacts her again, have her swear out an order against him. 

Now get that book, "Not Just Freinds", get yourself up to speed and see if Humpty Dumpty can be put back together. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

Edit: Sorry for the cross post. I just read your answer to alte Dame. That's your choice then, just read the book to understand how things get our of control.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why was she even at the guy's place? Why would she need to use his loo if she had already wet herself?

She's lying. Geez, at least she could have staggered in with the knickers hanging out of her pocket.


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> If this is a dealbreaker, as you say, then you can go several ways:
> 
> - You can decide that you simply don't believe her story and that you don't need further proof. In this case, just file for D now.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I think you've nailed it there, good way to proceed, again thanks.


----------



## JohnC_depressed (Dec 6, 2012)

Bert I don't know if you like old country music or not but that guy would definitely be on th fightin side of me!!! (Merle Haggard). Don't like what I'm reading here. Good luck man.

Regards JC


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Bert, just curious why you let the question of the missing three hours go in the first place? Did you start snooping at this point?


----------



## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

I had no idea you could just go get a polygraph test? I'm sure they cost good money. 

STD tests are not cheap either. (Not something you want to have to go do every month.)


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

Philat said:


> Bert, just curious why you let the question of the missing three hours go in the first place? Did you start snooping at this point?


Yes.


pink_lady said:


> I had no idea you could just go get a polygraph test? I'm sure they cost good money.
> 
> STD tests are not cheap either. (Not something you want to have to go do every month.)


polygraph test ranges between £600 - £1000.


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Bert, don't let anyone cow you into NOT having her agree to a poly. They are the same people who try to paint a man who asserts his right to expect honesty from his wife as a "CAN" (Controlling, Abusive Neanderthal). True, polys are expensive and not 100% accurate, but her reaction to a demand for a poly can speak a thousand words. One of 2 things can happen if you tell her to take a poly:

1) She agrees, and passes with flying colors.

2) She flatly refuses, probably even invoking the "CAN" argument, 
in which case you KNOW that she is lying.

And even if she agrees, be mindful of the possibility that by simply agreeing with you, then you should take that as "proof positive" that she is telling the truth, and that she will be expecting you to not press the poly and drop the whole issue all together. So, here's a scenario:

Schedule a poly, but don't tell her when. Then one day, while you're out shopping or whatnot, pull into the parking lot of the place and tell her "Oh, remember that poly you agreed to? Well, it's TODAY!"

One of 3 things can happen:

1) She flatly refuses, screaming that she never expected you to
actually put her through such a "humiliating" experience. 
(Sort of the "CAN" argument again)

2) She agrees, but fails, saying that she was "nervous" and 
"shocked" that you would "put her through such a humiliating
experience..." and that affected the test results.

3) She finally comes clean and gives you a full "parking lot 
confession".


----------



## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Bert said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> polygraph test ranges between £600 - £1000.


jeez that's an epensive game of chicken she's playing! How much are you gonna have to pay when you get your parking lot confession and you're a no-show?


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Bert, maybe you can get the mods to move this thread to the Coping With infidelity section? You will get much better advice there.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Bert said:


> I have already been in touch with him a few days after I red the txt, I rang him and introduced myself and told him I have seen the txt and wanted to know how he's come by my wife's undies, he basically stuttered and babbled for a few minutes (he didn't know what to say) and then I said that if he contacted my wife again that he would only end up messing up the lives of 3 young kids. He agreed, and that was that.


I don't mean to rip on you Bert, because this is a sad (yet all too common) situation you're in, but why didn't you add this bit of important info to your initial post?

I'm not suggesting that your post is untrue, I'm wondering what it is you're looking for, that's all. This happened several months ago, you've left out very important details from the first post that you've had to fill in, and to me, it sounds like there's absolutely no doubt what happened.

If you're looking for confirmation that your wife cheated on you, I'd say there's not much left to confirm (especially with the other details that you left out initially). And I don't think YOU have any doubt, either. I certainly wouldn't.

Letting the fine folks at TAM know that you already contacted the other man is important info. Letting them know ALL the info you have will determine the types of responses you get in return, and the advice will be much better suited to you.

So, have you told your wife you contacted him? And if so, what did she say?


----------



## Bert (Dec 31, 2013)

alexm said:


> I don't mean to rip on you Bert, because this is a sad (yet all too common) situation you're in, but why didn't you add this bit of important info to your initial post?
> 
> I'm not suggesting that your post is untrue, I'm wondering what it is you're looking for, that's all. This happened several months ago, you've left out very important details from the first post that you've had to fill in, and to me, it sounds like there's absolutely no doubt what happened.
> 
> ...


Simple, in my experience with forums, if you put to much text people are less likely to read it all, so you can then add more when required, But the basics of the story are essential to start off with.

Yes I told her, and she looked shocked, she didn't say much (what else could she say)

The bottom line is I know she's lying, question is what do I do next ?


----------



## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Bert said:


> Simple, in my experience with forums, if you put to much text people are less likely to read it all, so you can then add more when required, But the basics of the story are essential to start off with.
> 
> Yes I told her, and she looked shocked, she didn't say much (what else could she say)
> 
> The bottom line is I know she's lying, question is what do I do next ?


Here:



alte Dame said:


> If this is a dealbreaker, as you say, then you can go several ways:
> 
> - You can decide that you simply don't believe her story and that you don't need further proof. In this case, just file for D now.
> 
> ...


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Yes, what Philat ^ said .

And...if a poly is too expensive, then sit her down and tell her that:

- Her story is obviously a lie. (Really, one of the lamest ones I have ever experienced.)

- You are proceeding on the assumption that she has had sex with another man.

- You are divorcing her as a result.

- You are getting tested for STDs because of what she did.

- You will reconsider your decision if she tells the truth. You may not reconsider, of course. That is a possibility that she must accept for her cheating and lying.

Be prepared for her to trickle out the truth. Typically, the story gets worse and worse with time. If she starts to confess, don't believe what she says at first (or second, or third...). Keep telling her you don't believe her story, that you are saving up for a poly & if she wants a chance, then she has to be honest.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Take her phone, text him, and say you're going out Friday night, wanna hook up? See what happens.


----------



## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

How often does she go out with these gals? If you say more than a couple of times, this ain't her first piece of strange. Add that to your poly questionaire.

Oh, and as to that parking lot confession. It doesn't cost a dime if you never even make the appointment. If she calls your bluff, say "touche" and you schedule one at a later date that she WILL take.


----------

