# Jealous of wife's masturbation



## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

,,,,,,


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You sound just like a lot of wives who complain about their husbands' porn and masturbation habits. Your wife has a right to privacy - just because you find it 'hot' doesn't mean you get to be a peeping tom in the home. Watch a movie called "Mesmerized" starring John Lithgow and Jodie Foster.

You have three problems: 1. You want more sex with wife; 2. You spy on your wife for your own sexual gratification; 3. You're jealous even though you do the exact same thing.

Work on #1 with your wife, stop #2 and get over #3.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

#4 A SERIOUS problem if she finds out! Just stop please.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Why are you jealous again? 
Isn't this a good thing, she a healthy libido. 
Sometimes watching porn & masturbating are private, personal times. 
She doesn't invade your time & thoughts. 
The majority of women watch girl porn as it's probably clitoris related. 

Maybe have an informal chat with her about it. 
Ask her why she never initates for sex? 
Maybe because you don't concentrate on her orgasm?



Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

As a woman, sometimes I just want a quick release and be over with it. Masturbation doesn't require reciprocation or shaving your legs. Making love is a 2 way street but a quickie all about her could get more initiating down the road.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Ok first of all, masturbation is a very private thing unless you WANT to share it! Cut that **** out because honestly, it ain't cool.

Secondly, I occasionally do it just because my husband isn't home. I have a headache and it relives tension. I'm stressed and want to relieve tension. Boredom. Husband is out of town for 2 days and I'm horny. There's a list of reasons to do it and sometimes I watch porn when I do. Not always, but occasionally. I don't need it to "finish" but I do find occasionally that my "toy" just isn't doing the trick and I need a little extra "oomph" to get there. I much prefer the soft touch of oral to a plastic vibrating egg and they're very different sensations so I occasionally use porn to get me over the edge. 

Thirdly, masturbation is SO much simpler. I don't have to shave my legs or the private arena, I can only focus on my own pleasure and I don't have to blow my vibrator in return. I'm very high drive, but sometimes it's just nice to only focus on MY release.

I'm pretty sure my husband masturbates every day or close to it. But there's a good 12 hours in between him doing that and us having sex, so he's able to fully perform when it's time for real sex. 

Chill out with the jealousy, that will push her away even further.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

If she is masturbating and rejecting her husband...then ya, that is a problem. If you have a healthy sex life and you still masturbate then it's not a problem. 

Talk to her about marriage counseling. Tell her that you want to make the marriage stronger, that you want more intimacy. Say it all in positive words. Tell her that to you, making love IS love....and rejection makes you feel unloved. 

Also.... try "wooing" her. Make her feel loved and special. Make her WANT to make love. 

Read "The 5 Love Languages". It shows/tells you how to recognize what makes YOU feel loved, and what makes HER feel loved. It tells you how to show her love in "her language".


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Frankly this is a huge problem. Having been in a very long term relationship I can say sex wanes from time to time - that's normal. But her masturbating and rejecting you is a horrible combination.

Work on your communication. Recognize that she may want to blah blah at night - that's how women often connect. So you're missing out in bonding with her by blowing that off. Instead, engage, ask questions, listen. Ask how she feels about this stuff... basically be there emotionally for her. This is what women need often - a partner to talk out stuff with but not necessarily solve problems.

Next - change your thinking. I thought it was about sex for me, but I saw a sex therapist and found out I wanted more emotional connection. I wanted her to want me and admire me and want to be with me. That's probably why it hurts so much

So listen to her but also talk to her. Say you want more time to connect since you guys are so busy with kids, work and life - you need time with just her. Snuggling, touching, kissing - these actions release hormones and chemicals that bond a couple. And of course sex does too.

Make it about your desire to connect with her.

Read His Needs Her Needs with her - an easy read at the library that explains why men need sex in a way women understand - and will explain why you should be talking and listening to her in a way you'll understand.

Men say I need more sex and women say I need you to be there for me - but those phrases don't translate well to the opposite sex.

You are in to something. You see your relationship sliding away. You can get this back to a good place but you have to listen and get her to listen too


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

The real issue for you is that you feel she's choosing herself over you, right? That she's unresponsive to your needs? 

I think a frank conversation about that..your needs...is in order. Using sex as a weapon, or spying on her, or doing other things is really corrosive. What's needed here is some straight talk.

If you can't do this, then let her know you want to talk with a psychologist who does marriage counselling. This isn't just about masturbation, it sounds far more serious than that.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Your last sentence is the most telling.

Why do you think she's not attracted to you? Are you overweight or have other hygiene things you can improve? 
What kind of job do you do? Simply dressing better can make you more appealing to her. Do your improvements without telling her, just do them. Join a gym and don't say anything. Join and when she asks where you're going, "I joined a gym". Don't say you are doing it to lose weight are look like Arnold. Then let her see them.

You're in the comfort mode of marriage so she doesn't feel like she has to work to keep you.

DO NOT let all the women come on here and tell you this is all on you. Working on you, and improving on you, does not equate to you doing all the work.

Now for the masturbation part, I've never had (that I know of) a wife or gf that looked at porn. If it's a deal breaker for you then you need to put that boundary in place. Exactly the same thing I tell a woman who's husband is looking at porn. But you can't be 70% on this. If you can't accept it (and your words tell me you can't) then tell her you noticed she was watching porn. Now if you are watching porn then and don't like her doing it, then welcome to the world of empathy. Stop watching it and tell your wife you want her to stop and put the boundary in place if it's a deal breaker. If not then you just have to deal with it....

I would tell her you feel that she masturbates a lot and you feel that it's reducing the amount of sex she has with you. SPELL IT OUT. You need to man up when this goes down by the way as she'll likely think you're being silly about her replacing sex with the porn/masturbating. It's eating you up to the point you're posting on a web site for advice....

Your wife is not cheating on you. Stop the video surveillance.

PS: You'll get some advice on here to "just get over it". This is impacting you and your marriage and needs intervention as problems like this fester and get worse. Resentment, feeling neglected those things will eat you alive. This will take time and won't go away over night.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Spot on.



Unicus said:


> The real issue for you is that you feel she's choosing herself over you, right? That she's unresponsive to your needs?
> 
> I think a frank conversation about that..your needs...is in order. Using sex as a weapon, or spying on her, or doing other things is really corrosive. What's needed here is some straight talk.
> 
> If you can't do this, then let her know you want to talk with a psychologist who does marriage counselling. This isn't just about masturbation, it sounds far more serious than that.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

OT but this is why I much prefer Asian women. No hair on the legs. :grin2:



onedge said:


> As a woman, sometimes I just want a quick release and be over with it. Masturbation doesn't require reciprocation or shaving your legs. Making love is a 2 way street but a quickie all about her could get more initiating down the road.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> You sound just like a lot of wives who complain about their husbands' porn and masturbation habits. Your wife has a right to privacy - just because you find it 'hot' doesn't mean you get to be a peeping tom in the home. Watch a movie called "Mesmerized" starring John Lithgow and Jodie Foster.
> 
> You have three problems: 1. You want more sex with wife; 2. You spy on your wife for your own sexual gratification; 3. You're jealous even though you do the exact same thing.
> 
> Work on #1 with your wife, stop #2 and get over #3.



Thanks for the movie recommendation, I'll check that out.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

T&T said:


> #4 A SERIOUS problem if she finds out! Just stop please.



Indeed. I really need to because it's almost become addictive, even though the results aren't positive.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> Why are you jealous again?
> Isn't this a good thing, she a healthy libido.
> Sometimes watching porn & masturbating are private, personal times.
> She doesn't invade your time & thoughts.
> ...




Thanks for the reply. Yeah I definitely have concentrated on her orgasm. Maybe even to a fault over the years.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@PersonInSpace that's great! 
She's a lucky woman. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

SunnyT said:


> If she is masturbating and rejecting her husband...then ya, that is a problem. If you have a healthy sex life and you still masturbate then it's not a problem.
> 
> Talk to her about marriage counseling. Tell her that you want to make the marriage stronger, that you want more intimacy. Say it all in positive words. Tell her that to you, making love IS love....and rejection makes you feel unloved.
> 
> ...




Thank you this is a great reply. I will definitely look into the book. I've toyed with the idea of marriage counseling in recent months. As far as marriages go I do think we have a good one, but as we know marriage is an incredible challenge for so many reasons. 


The thing about my wife is I think she's too proud to show that she "needs it". She's also not extremely affectionate or emotional. She didn't cry when I asked her to marry me. If we get in a fight she stays hard headed through the whole thing, only to admit later it made her upset or cry, but she won't let me see it. When it comes to sex she'll say "I really wanted to have sex last night!" and I'm like really? She acted the same as she does every other night. Basically walked in the room around 9:30 or 10 and struck up conversation about her mom and grocery shopping and then went off to bed. What signal was I supposed to pick up on? 

This is my problem is the communication. In those situations I'm unsure if I should ask for it because A) Have no idea if she needs it or not B) Don't feel like finishing my day with a round of rejection.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Same advice as to every other guy complaining about his sex life. Up your game (hit the gym, rock it at work, listen to her and implement suggestions on how else to up your game). If she responds with more sex, great. If not, you have tough choices to make. If you stay despite her not reacting, that is one you - not her.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Frankly this is a huge problem. Having been in a very long term relationship I can say sex wanes from time to time - that's normal. But her masturbating and rejecting you is a horrible combination.
> 
> Work on your communication. Recognize that she may want to blah blah at night - that's how women often connect. So you're missing out in bonding with her by blowing that off. Instead, engage, ask questions, listen. Ask how she feels about this stuff... basically be there emotionally for her. This is what women need often - a partner to talk out stuff with but not necessarily solve problems.
> 
> ...



Thanks, this post gives me a lot to think about. 

One thing we have communicated about is a lot of times early in the day we'll say with both want sex, but after hours of dealing with screaming kids we're both spent when it comes time. We both agree that if we get it on we'll both pass out and before we know it the alarm is going off again. 


I need have a talk with her about affection and bonding. She accused me of being needy and was annoyed at the idea of having to put in more effort. Then she said, and I'm paraphrasing "What if I was always being needy and was telling you when I needed more from you". I said that would be perfect, I would always know where your head is at.

That's what this boils down to, communication. My wife thinks she is perfect. She still thinks she's the popular kid in school and that everyone wants to be her friend and that she has no faults. She tells me this during fights.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I just went back and reread a few things. I agree there is a problem with the wife preferring the big "O" alone over with her husband and all I can think of is my own history. My husband took a long time to get to the finish line and eventually lovemaking became centered around his release and I took a back stage to him. He either go to sleep because it wasn't going to happen, or he would treat me as an afterthought and no passion, or the fire was done burned out when things came back to me. Too many nights I was left hurt and frustrated and feeling used. Not to mention feeling worthless as a woman because at the time I felt like I must turn him off some way. I eventually stopped making the effort and finding excuses too. I was glad when his initiations stopped since I had learned how to take care of myself. Did I want the feel of another human...sure. Did I trust him to make me an kind of priority...nope. This was the start of our sexless marriage. 

No sex at all for almost 4 years and then he announced we were going away for the weekend to bring it back. I panicked. I didn't want to go through all of that again but I also knew he was clueless about why it stopped. So I told him that weekend and it was a difficult thing to do. He listened and I had found a major awakening in my labido after that. The sex continued for a few weeks until the same performance issues shut it down again and his solution was to ignore me. I chased, I initiated, I gave up.

Most women have a difficult time talking about sexual needs. It may take a couple attempts and done with with sincere sensitivity.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

jdawg2015 said:


> Your last sentence is the most telling.
> 
> Why do you think she's not attracted to you? Are you overweight or have other hygiene things you can improve?
> What kind of job do you do? Simply dressing better can make you more appealing to her. Do your improvements without telling her, just do them. Join a gym and don't say anything. Join and when she asks where you're going, "I joined a gym". Don't say you are doing it to lose weight are look like Arnold. Then let her see them.
> ...



1) Yeah there's things I could work on hygiene wise. Truth is we're both over weight. Not grossly over weight, but if you looked at us you'd realize we like chicken wings and beer more than running. Also, and I'll be blunt about this, I like fat chicks. I always have. It's not so much that I think she's not attracted to me, I just never was the "hot guy" all the girls wanted. I was the cute guy that when a girl liked me she's tell a friend to tell me and keep it a secret. I think I just represent a comfort zone for her. I'm not threatening enough(by threatening I mean I'm not the guy all the chicks want) , so yeah, sad as it is, maybe the game has to start at the gym. 

2) Spot on, definitely in the comfort zone. 

3) I have no problem that she masturbates or looks at porn. Boundaries don't work anyway. I have a problem that the ball is always in my court. I'm always having to ask for sex and always having to initiate and always have to do the work. You can't feel wanted when it's like that. The other problem is when she has a clear opportunity to do it with me she chooses herself or she tells me she's off limits and then does it anyway. It's really unfair. She's become increasingly difficult to talk to about subjects in recent years so I'm not sure how I can approach this. 

4) Yes these feelings are eating me the **** alive. I regret ever going down this path. I should have stayed selfish, drinking beer in the basement and listening to records. I also need to maintain the discipline to shut the security camera off except for only when it's needed. I'm telling you folks, breaking that boundary was a huge mistake.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

I kinda want to back the train up for a second. I don't want people to think my wife is a bad person or that we have a bad marriage. We talk, we have fun, we have sex. We have fun when we have sex. I'm not perfect either. I just think she's set in her ways when it comes to things and she needs to learn how to come out of her comfort zone and in some regards evolve.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

onedge said:


> I just went back and reread a few things. I agree there is a problem with the wife preferring the big "O" alone over with her husband and all I can think of is my own history. My husband took a long time to get to the finish line and eventually lovemaking became centered around his release and I took a back stage to him. He either go to sleep because it wasn't going to happen, or he would treat me as an afterthought and no passion, or the fire was done burned out when things came back to me. Too many nights I was left hurt and frustrated and feeling used. Not to mention feeling worthless as a woman because at the time I felt like I must turn him off some way. I eventually stopped making the effort and finding excuses too. I was glad when his initiations stopped since I had learned how to take care of myself. Did I want the feel of another human...sure. Did I trust him to make me an kind of priority...nope. This was the start of our sexless marriage.
> 
> No sex at all for almost 4 years and then he announced we were going away for the weekend to bring it back. I panicked. I didn't want to go through all of that again but I also knew he was clueless about why it stopped. So I told him that weekend and it was a difficult thing to do. He listened and I had found a major awakening in my labido after that. The sex continued for a few weeks until the same performance issues shut it down again and his solution was to ignore me. I chased, I initiated, I gave up.
> 
> Most women have a difficult time talking about sexual needs. It may take a couple attempts and done with with sincere sensitivity.




Thanks for your perspective. In our sex life over the years, I would put off having orgasms and most times not even have them at all. I was like that because I really enjoyed sex and I really enjoyed giving her orgasms. I never wanted the party to end. The way I have sex is I either cum in the first 45 seconds, or If I hold that off(which I trained myself to do) I then usually take an hour. I think that was more applicable when we were young and had tons of time to kill, but now there just isn't time for that. She even told me she thinks it's hot when I cum right away and that she likes knowing she satisfied me. She said she missed that over the years If I wouldn't cum. I think the other aspect too is she can just give herself such powerful orgasms on command. She's always been able to. So I think what happened is for her, sex was about making me cum and her "O's" would happen on her time. I didn't see this coming and I'm still not sure how to handle it. It's like two separate worlds but I want our worlds to be together.


See now as far as your situation that's how I perform if I masturbate, then we end up having sex the same day. I'm just not focused. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be making her feel good or me. It gets lost in translation. The frustrating part if where I hold off masturbation so I can have this great in-tune sexual performance and I get nothing. Then I'm angry and resentful and we end up on different pages masturbating in different rooms of the house. I don't think she really cares either way. At no point is there any pressure for her to "perform". She even jokes "Maybe I should try putting in effort during sex one of these days".


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You installed a camera to ''catch'' your wife masturbating? I'm sort of stuck on that point. lol  That just seems like a bit too much. Marriage isn't a prison. Don't make it so.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> You installed a camera to ''catch'' your wife masturbating? I'm sort of stuck on that point. lol  That just seems like a bit too much. Marriage isn't a prison. Don't make it so.



Ok judgy mc judgington. I installed a motion activated security camera because if your house gets broken into and you have nothing to show the cops you're pretty much screwed. Also If you read the post you'd see the part where I gave my wife access to the device so her privacy wouldn't be invaded, but she didn't bother with it. She still doesn't know how to load songs on an Iphone or work bluetooth devices because she can't be bothered. Try reading next time or don't bother posting, thanks.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

So this literally just happened to me 45 minutes ago. I had a moment of weakness so I asked(sorta begged) for sex because I need it and she's looking hot. She tells me we still can't because her period is almost over and she wants to wait till the weekend and make sure it's gone. I sit there and know she's lying to my face. She basically can't be bothered. This is what leads me to spy on her. After years of rejection it just like WTF? What's really going on here? Maybe I'm just the problem.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

[I said:


> *The way I have sex is I either cum in the first 45 seconds, or If I hold that off(which I trained myself to do) I then usually take an hour. I think that was more applicable when we were young and had tons of time to kill, but now there just isn't time for that. *[/I]



Maybe mixing it up. I wish I could say I would have loved taking an hour with lots of foreplay and positions but to be honest I would have a difficult time staying aroused for that long especially since PIV doesn't give the right kind of stimulation for an orgasm. When the arousal starts to wane then it starts to feel more like a chore than fun. A hot energetic quickie with the big O from foreplay might be need to be thrown in.

Since wife is masturbating, she obviously enjoys being sexual. That puts you ahead of the game compared to me. Look at this a huge big hint of what she wants/needs.

I agree with posters on stop peeping on her and don't tell her have seen it. It will embarrass her and she will feel like she can't trust you. That would be a labido killer.


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

PersonInSpace said:


> _*So this literally just happened to me 45 minutes ago. I had a moment of weakness so I asked(sorta begged) for sex because I need it and she's looking hot. She tells me we still can't because her period is almost over and she wants to wait till the weekend and make sure it's gone. I sit there and know she's lying to my face. She basically can't be bothered. This is what leads me to spy on her. After years of rejection it just like WTF? What's really going on here? Maybe I'm just the problem*_.


Possibly she just doesn't feel sexual when that time of the month happens. Some women feel bloat and blah and so not in the mood. Imagine having sex 30 minutes after you just finished Thanksgiving dinner. Wait until this weekend and see if she sticks to it. I hear and get your frustration.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Your post is very detailed about her masturbating and feeling like she values it more than having sec with you. You're lying to yourself.

You don't feel desired and it makes you resent her porn watching and masturbating.

Boundaries do work. But you have to understand what we mean. A boundary is YOUR boundary. You can't stop her from watching porn. However, you can tell her is drains intimiacy from your relationship and that is she continues do watch it, she will be single. The key to boundaries is making sure you follow through with the consequence you lay out. Boundaries can be anything from no cheating to a spouse yelling at you etc. It stops you from accepting others behavior that is detrimental to you (can be emotional or physical).

You need to work on dating your wife and get more spark. But her actions are hurting you inside so this is where you have to have the frank discussion. But has to be calm and you need to be stoic. Once you (or her) give in too emotions in the conversation stop and try again.





PersonInSpace said:


> I have no problem that she masturbates or looks at porn. Boundaries don't work anyway.I have a problem that the ball is always in my court. I'm always having to ask for sex and always having to initiate and always have to do the work. You can't feel wanted when it's like that. The other problem is when she has a clear opportunity to do it with me she chooses herself or she tells me she's off limits and then does it anyway. It's really unfair. She's become increasingly difficult to talk to about subjects in recent years so I'm not sure how I can approach this.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Find out what kind of wife you have. For some women like the foreplay and such while some just want to get on with it. Also, you might consider that she has 2 little kids demanding of her time so she can be all touched out. While the body might need the release so she takes care of it but doesn't want to be physical with you. Are you sure she is actually having orgasm with you and not faking it. A lot of women don't reach orgasm with PIV and if it's taking a long time for her she might fake it so the H will finish and be satisfied and take care of herself later which can be as fast as 2 minutes.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You definitely have to know what she likes. The 45 seconds or 1 hour scenario are killing it IMO.

If you watch porn you would believe 1 hour is awesome. Many / most women would disagree. It would be interesting to take a TAM poll. I bet 4-7 minutes would be great for a majority of people for a weeknight. Maybe up to 15-20 minutes if you're both into it and not exhausted. Personally I like much more but I don't think I'm too far off base in my guesses for a couple with small kids during the week.

Yes she wants to make you get off! Come on - men are very explicit when they orgasm and it's a positive experience for most women. So if you're only focusing on her O and just pounding away you may be pressuring her and then she won't enjoy sex.

My W uses a vibrator and she loves to give me head. I would love more variety and PIV etc but BJ is her favorite. Maybe I've got pretty equipment lol whatever - this works for her and even if she's too tired for an O it's a HJ or BJ for me. She doesn't have to get cleaned up and get all sexy - I clean up so we're always ready. My point is I know what she likes and she cums very strongly and easily when we do this so its easy and fun. You start adding stressors and pretty soon it's slapping the va-j-j alone, in her sweats, with no pressure to perform or worry about making you cum etc.

Just one possibility. At least this is what I think some of the female TAMMERS seemed to be saying too.

The spycam would be fun for role play ha ha but my W claims she never masturbates. We're frequent enough that it's probably true these days. Not all women do BTW.


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## btterflykisses (Apr 29, 2016)

You sound creepy putting a hidden camera in your house.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

PersonInSpace said:


> So this literally just happened to me 45 minutes ago. I had a moment of weakness so I asked(sorta begged) for sex because I need it and she's looking hot. She tells me we still can't because her period is almost over and she wants to wait till the weekend and make sure it's gone. I sit there and know she's lying to my face. She basically can't be bothered. This is what leads me to spy on her. After years of rejection it just like WTF? What's really going on here? Maybe I'm just the problem.


Like so many other wives, yours has lost interest in having sex with you. She is taking you for granted, she is selfish, and she doesn't care about your needs. You could try reading Athol Kay's "Married Man Sex Life Primer" but really, it's annoying and exhausting trying to run dread game on your own wife. Basically the premise is you start looking better, dressing better, wearing cologne, etc and making her nervous that other women will start to find you hot and she could lose you if she doesn't shape up. Her sex drive is just fine; the problem is she does not want to do it with you. You could also try telling her that things need to change, or you might have some serious decisions to make.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

btterflykisses said:


> You sound creepy putting a hidden camera in your house.


How is this helpful or kind? He showed and told his wife about it. It's not like it is a secret.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

I have cameras throughout my house. I live overseas and can have 9 cameras. I can see anything that comes in the doors (which fully covers my main living room), garage, etc. I have a camera that is also in my barn and shows my tractor and Mustang.

Far more common than you think. Mine are motion activated and if the camera is triggers I get a series of emails from a time period before and after the trigger and it has sound.

Using it to spy on your spouse would be justified, IMO, only if you have strong suspicion of an affair and I agree he should stop. 

But good security cameras are cheap and the quality is fantastic now and very common so I would not say they are creepy.



btterflykisses said:


> You sound creepy putting a hidden camera in your house.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

onedge said:


> Possibly she just doesn't feel sexual when that time of the month happens. Some women feel bloat and blah and so not in the mood. Imagine having sex 30 minutes after you just finished Thanksgiving dinner. Wait until this weekend and see if she sticks to it. I hear and get your frustration.



She says she feels more sexual and I more the less know she masturbated this week. I think you are kind of right though. I guess her thinking is if it isn't totally convenient for her then she isn't doing it. She plays gatekeeper for the sex and I feel it's demoralizing. Nothing is more exciting than when your partner says "screw it, I need it and I'm willing to deal with the consequences". Am I right?


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## onedge (Nov 27, 2013)

I agree she is giving lots of mixed signals and it isn't being fair.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Is your wife self conscious about herself. Does she have low self esteem. It could be that she is uncomfortable having sex with you because she doesn't feel good about her body. Also, she could be one of the rare women that need visual stimulation to get aroused. Also, did I read you correctly when you said that she's watching girl on girl stuff. If that's the case then you have your answer. She's into females.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Laila8 said:


> Like so many other wives, yours has lost interest in having sex with you. She is taking you for granted, she is selfish, and she doesn't care about your needs. You could try reading Athol Kay's "Married Man Sex Life Primer" but really, it's annoying and exhausting trying to run dread game on your own wife. Basically the premise is you start looking better, dressing better, wearing cologne, etc and making her nervous that other women will start to find you hot and she could lose you if she doesn't shape up. Her sex drive is just fine; the problem is she does not want to do it with you. You could also try telling her that things need to change, or you might have some serious decisions to make.




I think I overshot the mark here. We do have sex, this is not a sexless marriage. She's not a bad person but she just has an approach to sex in the marriage that is hurting my feelings. 

Problem is, I am the one who was to initiate, therefore I am the one who deals with much rejection. Then to find out some of excuses were bull. 

What you have to understand is her approach. If she catches me masturbating she thinks its funny. She doesn't feel threatened or feel that she missed her obligation. 

You are definitely right that I have to up my game as far as looking better and dressing better and such. It's sad it's got to be that way but it is what it is. The other funny part is my wife is fat chick. She is as heavy as she's ever been and doesn't care or feel obligated to change. Sexually I don't care, I like fat chicks, but I feel she's taking advantage of the situation. She also made it clear if I go outside the marriage that I'm screwed. So she holds all the cards. So you're right, I need to up my game and be more threatening.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

Laila8 said:


> Like so many other wives, yours has lost interest in having sex with you. She is taking you for granted, she is selfish, and she doesn't care about your needs. You could try reading Athol Kay's "Married Man Sex Life Primer" but really, it's annoying and exhausting trying to run dread game on your own wife. Basically the premise is you start looking better, dressing better, wearing cologne, etc and making her nervous that other women will start to find you hot and she could lose you if she doesn't shape up. Her sex drive is just fine; the problem is she does not want to do it with you. You could also try telling her that things need to change, or you might have some serious decisions to make.


He might need to try that. I feel like too often women get caught up in this idea that the only person that needs wooing is them and that they don't really have to do anything other than be there in order to keep their man. If the situation was reversed you would be categorized as a huge a** hole. The OP needs to get his confidence up. That in and of itself is a turn on to women.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

PersonInSpace said:


> I think I overshot the mark here. We do have sex, this is not a sexless marriage. She's not a bad person but she just has an approach to sex in the marriage that is hurting my feelings.
> 
> Problem is, I am the one who was to initiate, therefore I am the one who deals with much rejection. Then to find out some of excuses were bull.
> 
> ...


 Are you sure about that. If your wife caught you whacking off to some chick with an amazing body doing things that your wife could never do that she wouldn't be the least beat self conscious?


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> Is your wife self conscious about herself. Does she have low self esteem. It could be that she is uncomfortable having sex with you because she doesn't feel good about her body. Also, she could be one of the rare women that need visual stimulation to get aroused. Also, did I read you correctly when you said that she's watching girl on girl stuff. If that's the case then you have your answer. She's into females.



No, no and no. My wife is very self confident. She's not conceited, but confident. I know the type of person you are describing and she is not it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You mentioned she throws in your face that she's the popular one, right? I think that was this thread.

If so one of the recent posts hit the nail on the head - you have to up your game and change the dynamics.

I am supremely confident I could get s quality woman if my W got hit by a truck. I may be 70 lbs overweight but not in my mental image or how I carry myself. I feel attractive and I have a lot of good qualities and some bad ones. But I don't have self doubt. I work out, got my black belt, am a good husband, listen pretty good... See? I'm not a French model and I'm not a Wall Street hedge fund millionaire. But I know my value and I'm way ahead of a lot of guys my age.

Your wife doesn't want to feel like she married a dud. If other women find you attractive - whatever your qualities - she'll notice.

It's not about being a different or better person. It's about being the best you and knowing it and being confident in it. Tune in and learn how to strut your stuff in a way that tells her you're as good or better than her.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> Are you sure about that. If your wife caught you whacking off to some chick with an amazing body doing things that your wife could never do that she wouldn't be the least beat self conscious?



Ha, you've brought up a good point. I like fat chicks, she knows I like fat chicks and she knows I look at big women online( ok judge me if you will but that's another story). It so obvious my wife will point out other hot big women if we are watching tv or out to dinner out something. It's like a joke to her. But I do notice the few times I've said a thin women is really hot it stops her in her tracks. I think it's because I've created such a comfort zone around her with her weight that when I randomly admit I find a think women attractive she's thrown off by it and feels threatened.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

thetruthhurts said:


> you mentioned she throws in your face that she's the popular one, right? I think that was this thread.
> 
> If so one of the recent posts hit the nail on the head - you have to up your game and change the dynamics.
> 
> ...



thank you!


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Conclusion: I just have to up my game. This is really my problem and I have to change the things I can change instead of insisting she change. 


Thanks folks, you are all very helpful.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> Is your wife self conscious about herself. Does she have low self esteem. It could be that she is uncomfortable having sex with you because she doesn't feel good about her body. Also, she could be one of the rare women that need visual stimulation to get aroused. Also, did I read you correctly when you said that she's watching girl on girl stuff. If that's the case then you have your answer. She's into females.




Naw she watches guy/girl porn too and even admitted she watches guy/guy porn from time to time. I think she just likes "the act". I mostly can't stand to watch the porn she likes. She likes REALLY CHEESY porn with horrible story lines and corny people. It's just her thing. Kind of funny really.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

PersonInSpace said:


> I think I overshot the mark here. We do have sex, this is not a sexless marriage. She's not a bad person but she just has an approach to sex in the marriage that is hurting my feelings.
> 
> Problem is, I am the one who was to initiate, therefore I am the one who deals with much rejection. Then to find out some of excuses were bull.
> 
> ...


Read Married Man Sex Life Primer by Athol Kay. While not a perfect book on the female psyche, it is accurate and helpful in many ways.

She's lost her attraction to you. You've both gotten complacent. Your too available. Neediness isn't attractive and neither is begging for sex. Start working out. Lose some weight. Up your game. Do more drive-bys. Be Outcome Independent (OI). Be more aggressive. Be more playful. Use humor. Take charge and take her. Stop being a little *****. And if you have to, destabilize the relationship.

And, next time, walk in on her, joke around...and tell her "That is F'ing awesome I'm glad you were getting yourself warmed up for me". Run with it a little bit.

And not all women are into 1 hour long sessions. Mix it up. You've become too predictable.

Come back and let us know how things turn out. What worked and what didn't.

Good luck!


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## btterflykisses (Apr 29, 2016)

jdawg2015 said:


> I have cameras throughout my house. I live overseas and can have 9 cameras. I can see anything that comes in the doors (which fully covers my main living room), garage, etc. I have a camera that is also in my barn and shows my tractor and Mustang.
> 
> Far more common than you think. Mine are motion activated and if the camera is triggers I get a series of emails from a time period before and after the trigger and it has sound.
> 
> Using it to spy on your spouse would be justified, IMO, only if you have strong suspicion of an affair and I agree he should stop.


I have cameras and a modern security system on the outside of my house covering the entries and exits and front and back yards. I just don't see how he is justified in spying on his wife. Its not like he is in a sexless marriage. He just expects her to want it when he does. Given his behavior I would never trust him again if he was my husband.



Laila8 said:


> How is this helpful or kind? He showed and told his wife about it. It's not like it is a secret.


So because he told her after the fact its okay now. Where was his helpfulness or kindness to his wife. 

I am starting to think some people on here think that being married means a person has no privacy at all.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Maybe your wife knows that you think about her as a "fat chick" and readily describe her that way to other people. 

Or ... that her two sex alternatives are 45 seconds that likely isn't going to lead anywhere or an hour that probably feels endless. 

Or ... your wife watches Girl on Girl porn and prefers that to sex with you. 

I mean ... what that last thing potentially says should probably be really obvious. And Athol Kay isn't going to fix that.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

PersonInSpace said:


> The thing about my wife is I think she's too proud to show that she "needs it". She's also not extremely affectionate or emotional. She didn't cry when I asked her to marry me. If we get in a fight she stays hard headed through the whole thing, only to admit later it made her upset or cry, but she won't let me see it. When it comes to sex she'll say "I really wanted to have sex last night!" and I'm like really? She acted the same as she does every other night. Basically walked in the room around 9:30 or 10 and struck up conversation about her mom and grocery shopping and then went off to bed. What signal was I supposed to pick up on?


My wife is very much like this, too, and it sucks at times. I get that whole "I wanted to have sex last night/yesterday/a week ago" crap, too.. :laugh: Well, why didn't you do something about it??

There have been a handful of times over the years where I've been rejected and later figured out she took care of herself not long after. It happens, but it shouldn't happen as often as it seems it does to you.

As some of the women in this thread have said (and I agree), sometimes masturbation is just easier and quicker. One can certainly be in the mood for masturbation and not in the mood for sex. But one must also balance that, and engage your partner from time to time, as opposed to rejecting them in favour of masturbation.

To me, masturbation and sex with a partner are two VASTLY different things, but they have a direct correlation with each other. There's absolutely nothing wrong, IMO, with wanting to masturbate and not wanting to have sex. The problem, of course, is that when one masturbates, it's not likely sex will be on the table for a period of time thereafter.

Anyway, point being is that I think your wife is not connecting masturbation and sex with you at ALL. Two TOTALLY different things. If she's horny, she takes care of it. If she's horny AND wants a connection with her husband, then she has sex with her husband. I get it. As a man, I can tell you I do this, too.

And here's the thing - if your wife wasn't much into masturbation (like mine isn't), then it's highly doubtful you'd be having more sex. Seriously.

My wife isn't a highly sexual person (ie. she's LD). She HAS a drive, but it's very responsive, and dependant on many things - much like your wife's seems to be. We have sex 3-4 times a month, almost always on weekends. These days, she probably masturbates, I'm guessing, once every 2-3 months. Maybe not even that. Several years ago, when she attended a sex toy party with friends, she bought her first toy(s). For the first few months, it was a new experience for her, and they got heavy use. Here's the thing - we didn't have any less sex. She was just masturbating fairly often. Sex was still 3, 4, 5 times a month.

The newness and excitement waned over time, the masturbation slowed down, and now it's almost non-existent (afaik). The amount of sex hasn't changed.

So I get it. You feel as though she's choosing masturbation over you. To a degree, she is, but I highly doubt she sees it that way. Again, masturbation is NOT sex to her. I truly believe that if she masturbated less, or not at all, the amount of sex you guys would be having wouldn't increase.

My best advice is this - see if you can't incorporate yourself into this on occasion. I don't mean get all up in her space and make it a "thing". I mean have masturbation sessions together, if she's open to it. You sound like quite an open kind of guy, who wouldn't mind her watching whatever it is she's watching while she's doing what she does.

My wife and I, maybe once a month, do something similar. She uses her toy on herself, I take care of myself, next to each other. It's one of those unsaid kind of things. We never talked about it, we don't plan it, it just kind of happens. There's minimal touching, and no PIV. These days, I believe it's the only action her toy gets.

I also wanted to add, so you don't feel alone, I also get very excited at the thought of my wife masturbating, or catching her, etc. I haven't set up cameras or anything, but it's (I'm ashamed to admit) crossed my mind. And FWIW, my wife is the same about me. She's caught me several times, and it clearly turns her on (responsive desire and all that). Not EVERY time, but it most definitely gets her going more often than not. There's something about seeing or hearing your partner when they're alone that's exciting, and it's -nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes it leads to sex, sometimes she joins me with her toy. Sometimes she smiles, watches for a few seconds, then goes about whatever she was doing at the time.

That said, to purposefully intrude on this time is sketchy. The handful of times I've caught my wife, it's been honest, and I've never barged in - that's her time. My wife HAS barged in on me, and I don't mind at all, but I'm not so sure she'd appreciate the reverse. I think the worst I've done is stopped and listened, and waited til she was done (and maybe got a little excited and took care of myself once or twice...  ). Other times I have walked in, but I didn't hear anything beforehand, so I didn't know. But when I've realized what's happening beforehand, I don't barge in.

Basically, privacy is key. Your wife seems to prefer to keep it private, which is her right. Mine, too, though the few times I've legitimately caught her, she didn't freak out.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Thanks for sharing. This is an excellent post and gives me tons to think about. This site is a great resource. 




alexm said:


> The problem, of course, is that when one masturbates, it's not likely sex will be on the table for a period of time thereafter.



This is a great thought. I feel I'm having her in my thoughts about when I choose to masturbate so I don't leave her short changed. I feel she doesn't have much consideration the other way and I'm not sure how to address that or if it can be addressed at all without causing problems. 





alexm said:


> Anyway, point being is that I think your wife is not connecting masturbation and sex with you at ALL. Two TOTALLY different things. If she's horny, she takes care of it. If she's horny AND wants a connection with her husband, then she has sex with her husband.


Spot on




alexm said:


> And here's the thing - if your wife wasn't much into masturbation (like mine isn't), then it's highly doubtful you'd be having more sex. Seriously.



So many great points in your post. What's funny is a realized something. We were having sex earlier and I screwed up my orgasm. I was trying to please her and me at the same time and what happened I call "getting caught in two worlds" so it was good but not totally satisfactory. Ever since I'm like "I can't wait to jerk off later to get this thing 'out of my system". Point? That the body drives us and we have to give the body what it wants so we can function at our best. People rub one out sometimes. It happens. She's doing what she has to do and I do the same. I just need to find a way to communicate to her that as the man, the initiator and the performer that sex to me isn't just a way to cum. I invest time and thought into it. I feel that overall, my performances need to be consistently good(not every time because no one can live under that pressure) and I feel that fulling sexual experiences are a very big part of a successful marriage. I love my wife very much and our marriage working out till the end is the most important goal to me in life, and sex is a big part of that.


I want to address the camera thing for a second so I can be clear. 


There is one Camera in my house. It covers only my livingroom, front entrance and part of the kitchen where people enter the house from the rear. It's strategically placed to catch images of an intruder from the areas they are most likley to enter or be seen in. The Camera that size of a 16oz can and has led lights on it. It is not some tiny hidden device. I don't see her in the bedroom or in the bathroom naked or anything. I also have a large house with a family room, finished basement, 4 bathrooms and our bedroom is upstairs. Plenty of places to find privacy if needed. She's aware this device is there. I physically caught her wank on it once. She was fully clothed AND under a blanket. Her complacency regarding that falls on her. She's complacent in many regards and much of my life energy is spent holding her hand to dodge the consequences of her complacency and procrastination. So people can find wrongdoing in this scenario if they need to, but I've also stated that if there is a price to pay for what I've done, I'm definitely paying it. Sometimes the less you know the better. 

Random yet corresponding music video. Sorta NSFW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBzrzS1Ag_g


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Maybe you could try ROLE PLAY in your bedroom. She is into girl on girl porn. So she obviously has an active imagination and fantasy life, and that helps her to orgasm. So possibly you can shift her attention FROM porn on her phone TO something really kinky in the bedroom. Maybe some lite bondage? Maybe you two both dressing up in ways to hide your bodies a little?


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> Naw she watches guy/girl porn too and even admitted she watches guy/guy porn from time to time. I think she just likes "the act". I mostly can't stand to watch the porn she likes. She likes REALLY CHEESY porn with horrible story lines and corny people. It's just her thing. Kind of funny really.


So if cheesy turns her on, I think you know what you need to do. Try things her way, give her the mushy one-liners, the over the top seduction. Just because YOU can't stand it doesn't mean it's not exactly what she needs to get warmed up.

You can't get her to approach this the way you do; you've been trying to make her into more of what you need/like for ages now and all it's leading to is frustration for both of you. Try giving her more of what she needs/likes. Watch her porn, search for themes, run with them.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Also she has no regard for my feelings and needs, therefore I'm having less regard for her privacy. I still feel her behavior is far more reckless.


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## Palodyne (Mar 3, 2016)

I have been considering marrying for a while, but I swear, after reading many of these post's I can't see the point! A married man horny downstairs, thinking of getting with his wife, his wife is upstairs watching lesbians eating carpet, rubbing herself to sleep. Then he gets denied. But at least she took a break long enough to give him a couple of kids. 

Hell, if masturbation is going to be 90% of the relationship, then why not stay single? It's a hell of a lot cheaper, and there is no divorce involved.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> So if cheesy turns her on, I think you know what you need to do. Try things her way, give her the mushy one-liners, the over the top seduction. Just because YOU can't stand it doesn't mean it's not exactly what she needs to get warmed up.
> 
> You can't get her to approach this the way you do; you've been trying to make her into more of what you need/like for ages now and all it's leading to is frustration for both of you. Try giving her more of what she needs/likes. Watch her porn, search for themes, run with them.


This^

My wife and I are very far apart when it comes to what gets us going in the first place. Once we're there, we're extremely compatible, though.

She prefers a more aggressive approach, and one that is rather spur of the moment. Read: not romantic, no build-up, just get to it. And that's not how I operate, unfortunately.

Some of the best sex we have is when I take. We're talking borderline aggression here, and I'm not comfortable with it, but it works for her. Her orgasms are more powerful and she's generally more satisfied afterwards. As I'm not a fan of it - even knowing she apparently is - I limit this type of initiation to once every two months or so.

So operating at your partners level can, and usually does, work. The catch, though, is obviously you have to be potentially uncomfortable at times and work outside of your box, so it's a little bit of a win/lose/win situation at times.

The downside, at least in my situation, is that my wife can't/won't operate at MY level, unfortunately. Ironically enough, I want to be "taken", as well. I want to feel as though she needs me, wants me, can't wait any longer, etc. But that's out of HER comfort zone, and she won't go there.  She feels too awkward and uncomfortable doing it. She's "tried", but it's clearly fake and just not something she's capable of.

On a related note - when my wife discovered vibrators and solo masturbation, she viewed it from a similar place as your wife does. It's private, it's for her, it has nothing to do with me. I "got" that very early on, so I backed off and let her do her thing. It took some time, but she warmed up to sharing it with me eventually. It wasn't even my end-game, TBH. I really did just let it go, and let her have her total and complete privacy. At some point later on, she brought her toy into our sex life, which gradually turned into the occasional mutual masturbation session.

People like my wife much prefer to do things on their own time, of their own accord, their own way. And even then, only IF they're comfortable with it.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Palodyne said:


> I have been considering marrying for a while, but I swear, after reading many of these post's I can't see the point! A married man horny downstairs, thinking of getting with his wife, his wife is upstairs watching lesbians eating carpet, rubbing herself to sleep. Then he gets denied. But at least she took a break long enough to give him a couple of kids.
> 
> Hell, if masturbation is going to be 90% of the relationship, then why not stay single? It's a hell of a lot cheaper, and there is no divorce involved.


Keep in mind that the OP does not have a sexless marriage, here.

If you really read between the lines, it's unlikely he'd be having MORE sex if his wife didn't have this "alone" time. The times that he's being rejected by his wife doesn't mean those are times he wouldn't be rejected otherwise.

I truly don't believe he's being rejected in favour of masturbation. I believe masturbation is a completely separate entity to his wife. When she wants sex with him, she has sex with him. When she wants to masturbate, she masturbates.

The real issue here is that OP doesn't feel included in this part of her life, or worse - that he's purposefully EXcluded from it, in all aspects.

Which is perfectly okay, IMO - that's her prerogative. However OP is more open about things like this than she is, and is having a hard time being excluded in any part of her life (which is understandable).

I DO believe his wife is too cavalier about it, though. She keeps it private, to herself, but she's almost obvious about it. Or oblivious. Either/or.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

PersonInSpace said:


> Also she has no regard for my feelings and needs, therefore I'm having less regard for her privacy. I still feel her behavior is far more reckless.


I had a thought about this, so bear with me.

You have a security camera on the main level of your house - nowhere that is considered private. Your wife knows this. I believe you said you've gone through the footage captured on this camera and have seen her masturbating, correct?

She does things like lock the door when she masturbates, which she usually doesn't do. She seems, to you anyway, almost giddy at times when you say you're going out, and she'll have the house to herself. And although I think you said she's not terribly computer literate, she doesn't delete her history on her phone when she watches whatever she watches.

So this is a stretch, but... perhaps your wife, despite her seemingly trying to NOT get caught, maybe kind of gets a bit of a sexual charge from the POSSIBILITY of getting busted? Not in the "creepy husband spying on her" kind of way, but just the sheer possibility of it.

Like I said, she KNOWS there's a camera there, and that it's on. She likely doesn't think you'd go through the footage, but she probably knows it's a possibility, even if it's slim (which it's not, apparently!)

As for locking the doors - I don't lock mine, either, until it's bed time. UNLESS I'll be doing something in the house (like showering) that prevents me from hearing the door. It's entirely possible your wife isn't locking the door to prevent her from getting busted by you, but rather that she could, for example, hear the door being unlocked so she has a heads up that you're home - and then she can "play dumb" and keep doing what she's doing, knowing you might catch her.

I know it's a bit of a stretch, but I think most people have SOME exhibitionist tendencies (some more than others). For some, it's just the *possibility* that they can get caught, and not actually GETTING caught. And for most people, it really only involves their spouse - not other people. If I get caught by my wife, it's kind of exciting to me. I'd be horrified if it was anybody else, though. And she actually is the same, I've discovered.

Just a thought. Maybe, if you ever get a chance, try to catch her (not in a creepy way, or jump out and say "AHA!") and then join her. Don't be elaborate about it, or obvious you're TRYING to catch her, either.

There have been a handful of times where I've come home and I've heard my wife upstairs. So I've joined her. Sometimes I didn't, and just gave her a smile when she came down. That's led to us both going right back upstairs before. Other times it's just a "wink wink nudge nudge" kind of thing.

When you don't make a big deal about this sort of thing, it makes people much more comfortable with it all.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Alex I wrote you a very long reply via direct message but I didn't go through and I lost it. Not writing that again but your thoughts are very helpful.

Long story short here's my conclusions:


-She definitely doesn't want to get caught. I've concluded she wants her time. 

-I'm not an insufficient lover or husband. She's not looking for something I'm not providing. If I had a bigger penis and made her cum harder I still think she'd be looking for her private time to masturbate. It's just who she is. 

-I have to up my personal game. 

-I've also made mistakes in my approach to having sex with her over the years and I need to be more thoughtful of that. 

-Is it fair that she doesn't have to up her game or be more thoughtful in her approach to sex in our marriage? No it's totally unfair, but that's life. Life is unfair sometimes. Could be worse. Could be my brother who's wife was caught cheating last summer. I'll take a couple secret rub out sessions any day.

-Also you're spot on about not making it uncomfortable for her. If I confront her it won't make anything better. She's clearly happy with her routine and not looking outside of this marriage so why would I want to rock the boat?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Good thoughts.

Not trying to upset things now that you're in a better place in this, but are you sure she's not video chatting on the phone? You said you saw porn which is fine. Another TAM guy found his W was rubbing it out for a bunch of different guys using a variety of apps. I'm not thinking that's the case at all but throwing it out there to be sure.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Good thoughts.
> 
> Not trying to upset things now that you're in a better place in this, but are you sure she's not video chatting on the phone? You said you saw porn which is fine. Another TAM guy found his W was rubbing it out for a bunch of different guys using a variety of apps. I'm not thinking that's the case at all but throwing it out there to be sure.




No worries. It's a good thought but it's definitely not happening. She's not good enough at covering her tracks. Besides if she was that would mean when she was done doing that she then was leaving porn in the browser for me to find as a decoy. Now she's smart enough to do that but she's too lazy. 

In fact a few times over the years when we've been getting in on and talking dirty I've tried to get her to tell me her fantasies. Like what do you like? guys with huge penises? Huge muscles? Really handsome Brad Pitt types? I asked because I want to know what makes her tick but none of the above really. She just likes the act of sex. She's a unique character.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

It's ironic because I was shopping for large vibrators and dildos this morning for my wife. I buy all her stuff for her- she won't go in a sex shop. I WANT her to masturbate without me so she'll learnher body and what she likes better. A sex therapist suggested it. She never enjoyed PIV but we have been working on it and she's trying. She doesn't O from PIV (like 70% of women) but I want her to spend more "alone time" so she can get a groove on without pressure from me and worrying about my pleasure. I want a super girthy one so she gets used to that. I've had a terrible time finding one - if they're 2" in diameter - 6" girth - they're 12inch veiny monsters ha ha. Kind of intimidating and counterproductive. But I'll find one and work to open her up to new things pun intended. (Btw I'm not trying to get a ridiculous dildo for my amusement we just have a girth issue).


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> It's ironic because I was shopping for large vibrators and dildos this morning for my wife. I buy all her stuff for her- she won't go in a sex shop. I WANT her to masturbate without me so she'll learnher body and what she likes better. A sex therapist suggested it. She never enjoyed PIV but we have been working on it and she's trying. She doesn't O from PIV (like 70% of women) but I want her to spend more "alone time" so she can get a groove on without pressure from me and worrying about my pleasure. I want a super girthy one so she gets used to that. I've had a terrible time finding one - if they're 2" in diameter - 6" girth - they're 12inch veiny monsters ha ha. Kind of intimidating and counterproductive. But I'll find one and work to open her up to new things pun intended. *(Btw I'm not trying to get a ridiculous dildo for my amusement we just have a girth issue*).



LOL


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Yeah I wish I was laughing too


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## Palodyne (Mar 3, 2016)

alexm said:


> Keep in mind that the OP does not have a sexless marriage, here.
> 
> If you really read between the lines, it's unlikely he'd be having MORE sex if his wife didn't have this "alone" time. The times that he's being rejected by his wife doesn't mean those are times he wouldn't be rejected otherwise.
> 
> ...


 Oh, ok. I misunderstood the problem. I thought he was getting shut out of having sex, but he is only shut out when she wants to masturbate.

In that case I agree with what you said, If she wants to be in private that's her prerogative.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Have to re-open this for a random thought:


My wife is probably at the heaviest she's ever been in her life. Now she's not big fat mega slob or anything, but she would be referred to as a fat chick. A hot fat chick, but I digress

Would I like her to be slimmer and more fit? Sure. As I've stated I like fat chicks, so her weight as it stands doesn't bother me like it bothers her. She talks about how it bothers her daily, but doesn't do anything about it. She is a procrastinator. 

Is it possible that my sexual advances or the thought of having to have sex is just a reminder of how unhappy she is with her body? So masturbating is just easier because she doesn't have to run through those feelings of guilt and remorse just to have an 'O'?

This just occurred to me and I'm freaking out. Because I always try to encourage healthier eating and more exercise. I get bare minimum participation and some times attitude thrown my way. I'm afraid my battle may be more than battling just Sex vs. Masturbation.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> Have to re-open this for a random thought:
> 
> 
> My wife is probably at the heaviest she's ever been in her life. Now she's not big fat mega slob or anything, but she would be referred to as a fat chick. A hot fat chick, but I digress
> ...


How overweight is she? 

You could approach it from a health standpoint.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> How overweight is she?
> 
> You could approach it from a health standpoint.



It's hard to describe how overweight she is as a chubby chaser myself.

I would say she is at the peak weight where she is still attractive, but if she gets any heavier she will start to enter freak show territory and will likely do permanent damage to her body.

And I repeat I am not one of these sicko's that keeps feeding my girl Burger King to keep her fat and having no confidence to protect my fragile ego. I encourage healthy behavior. At one point she had a personal trainer and was doing great. She quit for no reason and just started gaining again. My wife has quit smoking 6 different times just to start again. I think she likes quitting just to make starting up again fun.


I think it all falls back on me having to lead by example and change myself first. Like other posters have said If I up my game and she doesn't come on board with being a better wife and lover, then that falls me only if I stay in that relationship.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

I always say masturbation/porn is healthy, so long as it's not interfering with your sex life. Unfortunately, it is in this case. However, the spying absolutely needs to stop. What needs to happen is a direct conversation. Talk to your wife. Tell her you're unhappy with the amount of sex you're getting. Ask her why she doesn't initiate. 

Then come up with a goal. Right now you're at about 6 times a month. Tell her you would like it to be 9-10 (or whatever number, just be realistic) and ask her what she needs to get there. If she's exhausted by the 1 hour sessions (which I can tell you by experience are super tiring, especially if it's every time, you start to dread it), then cut it down to 20 minutes. If she needs visiual stimulation, put her favorite porn on. Doesn't matter if you think it's cheesy. You need to compromise if you want improvement. Finally I suggest seeing a sex therapist. Your wife seems to have a sexual appetite, it's just not being channeled to you. A sex therapist could help with that. 

Quit spying and be honest and upfront with your wife in your feelings. All the spying is doing is invading her privacy and messing with your head.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw I saw a sex therapist and didn't tell my wife; then I told her and we had one session as a couple and I told her to go alone as well. If nothing else, it allowed us to freely talk about sex and our sexual needs as a thing in its own right. It's hard to do that otherwise - it gets caught up in other things like time, fatigue, effort in the marriage, etc. in reality, sex has to be addressed as its own independent component of marriage.

If you can't ask her to see one yet, go yourself once and find out about it.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

It ****ing happened again I ****ing new it. She snuck up stairs without telling me. Was up there a long time before she got in the shower then comes down stairs and was all buddy-buddy with me. I knew why she was in a good mood. She masturbated to porn yet again. I was home the whole time and she made *ZERO* effort and didn't try to engage me at all. 

Then hides it under the guise that she's so busy doing laundry and getting the kids ready for tomorrow. Bull ****ing $***. She left for 4 hours getting her nails done while I made the kids dinner, I did laundry, I did the dishes, I gave the kids baths. She did $*** but procrastinate and then hide masturbation from me. I'm so ****ing pissed. She's a no good *****. She knows I want it and she knows I just want to be close to her.

The worst is there is nothing I can do. Years ago a tried starving her for sex since she won't initiate and it led to no changes and no sex.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

PersonInSpace said:


> The worst is there is nothing I can do. Years ago a tried starving her for sex since she won't initiate and it led to no changes and no sex.


Um, why can't you talk to her. "Wife I notice that you are enjoying yourself without me? I am here available and I want to feel connected to you, I want to make you feel good. So what is the reason/meaning of this?"


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You absolutely can do something about it. Why the hell are you doing so much around the house? Stop ALL of it. Take charge.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Um, why can't you talk to her. "Wife I notice that you are enjoying yourself without me? I am here available and I want to feel connected to you, I want to make you feel good. So what is the reason/meaning of this?"



You have to back read the thread. I'm snooping around to find this information. I pieced together that she disappeared upstairs for a long time, the hopped in the shower. Then I found porn on her phone again. I'm noticing the pattern in she always like to have well timed shower after. She doesn't like to feel all wet and gross after and I get that, but she seems to always perfectly time this no not include me. Last time I got some was Saturday morning only because I looked her in the eye and said "I NEED IT". She did zero work and just laid there.

Point being when you catch liars all they do is focus on how they got caught and not the issue at hand. Then they just get more elaborate at hiding the behavior. 

I read a good quote from another thread, "You can't judge someone from how the act, but from their habits".


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> You absolutely can do something about it. Why the hell are you doing so much around the house? Stop ALL of it. Take charge.




Why so nothing can get done? You don't understand my wife. If she doesn't want to do something, she just doesn't do it. If I don't do this stuff we will just live in filth and this expensive house I pay for won't even be worth it. Just the same with sex, I can withhold and she just doesn't care. She might make a comment but she won't do anything about it. 

The truth is she doesn't really love me, I just represent a comfort zone to her. I've been too good over the years in too many ways and she just doesn't fear me enough.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

I'm so f---ing pissed. I'm just thinking about the Sh--y effortless sex that I get. I'm think about how I tell her she's so pretty and she stuffs that in her back pocket like 'This dude isn't going anywhere'. Why I am I even here? Go to work, take care of the kids so when the kids go to bed I get to sit around and wait to do it again.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

What are you getting out of this relationship ?

If she's not willing to change, ultimately your choices are to accept it or being willing to divorce her. But you have to actually be willing to do it.

She spends hours getting her nails done, does nothing for her kids by your description, and won't have sex with you. What's she bringing to this party?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> I'm so f---ing pissed. I'm just thinking about the Sh--y effortless sex that I get. I'm think about how *I tell her she's so pretty and she stuffs that in her back pocket like 'This dude isn't going anywhere'*. Why I am I even here? Go to work, take care of the kids so when the kids go to bed I get to sit around and wait to do it again.


Stop giving her *what she wants* so long as she isn't giving you what you want!


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

So you take care of the house and kids because you think you have to? And you don't think you can create any consequences for your W? And she doesn't respect or value you?

Sounds like you've set things up the way you want them and aren't interested in changing things. Then I can't help you.

Me? I COULD do something if this were me but it's not me.

Me? I would ABSOLUTELY stop acting like a maid and babysitter. It's unattractive in a man and I'm not that guy. If my W wouldn't pick up the slack, assuming she has time for nails, etc. I would shut off the flow of money. Period. If she makes her own money and just isn't into me, I'd let her know the relationship is over if she wanted to just be a roommate.

I never understand guys that don't know how to take charge. Any woman who won't do her part isn't that into you and you have to realize that and move on or change things. IDK it's kind of simple. I've never known if a woman who respects and loves her man who won't try to take care of him at some level. I think that's your problem and you're unwilling to shake things up.

Good luck but I don't see this changing at all without you changing.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

tech-novelist said:


> Stop giving her *what she wants* so long as she isn't giving you what you want!



Well yeah that's done


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> So you take care of the house and kids because you think you have to? And you don't think you can create any consequences for your W? And she doesn't respect or value you?
> 
> Sounds like you've set things up the way you want them and aren't interested in changing things. Then I can't help you.
> 
> ...



First off It's not babysitting. They're my kids, I'm going to take care of my kids. 

And the housework, whatever, it's a nice house and I want it to be presentable. Sometimes if you want **** done you gotta do it yourself. But just love me at the end of the day. Don't dodge me.

And this is not grounds for a divorce. I am not putting myself and my kids through anything like that because I'm not getting the sex life I want. Not to mention that I would be trading it for no sex life.

I am physically mad, even the next day. What I have to do is channel my anger. Make it productive. I also have to keep my will power and not relinquish the power to her.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You are at that stage {in my marriage} where I started to do things for myself. I was getting heat, even while being a good loving husband. I remember the saying: "Ain't nobody happy when Momma ain't happy".

This is so true. The problem may, or may not BE YOU, but if it makes Momma unhappy.....watch out! Everybody gets kicked in the rear-end.

So.....since the feminine HEAT SHE-KING MISS-ILE was coming my way.....no matter WHAT I did.....I did what made me happy and what DE-STRESSED me. 

Running Marathons....long daily runs after working 12 hours a day. I was so tired and spent.....had no available energy to use for BEING PISSED OFF!

I remained calm in the emotional storms. At one time, I lived with 8 females, of all ages. 

I ate well....slept well....because when I went to bed.....I collapsed into unconsciousness!

Hey! It worked for me!


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

This whole issue is about her procrastination and avoidance behavior. She is perpetually putting off chores and things she has to do. Now that I'm paying attention to her activities I'm seeing this more and more. She folds one piece of laundry, looks at her phone for a bit, goes outside for a cigarette. Comes inside, folds one piece of laundry, calls her mom, goes out for a cigarette. Next think you know "Oh I didn't have time for X,Y,Z.". If she handled her biz there would be plenty of time for quality sex where she could still shower after(because her reasons, whatever). She's just being selfish and I need to take control of her. Starting with her procrastination issue. I need to express displeasure with that and get the ball rolling. I can't approach this from a sex first angle.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> You are at that stage {in my marriage} where I started to do things for myself. I was getting heat, even while being a good loving husband. I remember the saying: "Ain't nobody happy when Momma ain't happy".
> 
> This is so true. The problem may, or may not BE YOU, but if it makes Momma unhappy.....watch out! Everybody gets kicked in the rear-end.
> 
> ...




I appreciate the comment, but my wife doesn't give me crap, at all, ever. She has a "You don't bother me I don't bother you policy". Which is collapsing in on itself, she's getting really fat and I'm getting really angry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> You are at that stage {in my marriage} where I started to do things for myself. I was getting heat, even while being a good loving husband. I remember the saying: "Ain't nobody happy when Momma ain't happy".
> 
> This is so true. The problem may, or may not BE YOU, but if it makes Momma unhappy.....watch out! Everybody gets kicked in the rear-end.
> 
> ...


No offense but this sounds awful. Doesn't really sound like marriage either.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

PiS: Stop doing anything around the house. Hire a maid to do whatever needs to be done. Cost of maid comes out of whatever spending money your wife has access to.

At night and on weekends, take kids and go do something fun. Leave wife at home by herself. If she asks to join you, explain that you would rather she didn't.

Camping is a great activity. The more rustic the better. Especially if your wife does not like to be dirty, sweaty, sleep in a tent, etc. If she insists on joining you, at least she will get some exercise (setting up camp, long hikes, taking down camp) and you can control her caloric intake (oops, sorry hon, guess I forgot to pack the doughnuts AGAIN). Either way it is win for you. Alone time having fun with kids. Or family time having fun with kids. 

See, this is when you know your marriage is dead. When you enjoy the mental picture of your wife cranky and hungry and thoroughly miserable. When you look forward to the day she says "no thanks, you go with the kids, I'll stay home alone" so you don't have to spend any time with her. When your criteria for choosing activities to do with the kids is to maximize the chance that your wife won't enjoy it and won't want to be with you.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> So one time during sex I asked her about her masturbation routine simply because I wanted a turn on. She gave me some details(it was hot. *And BTW she will do it for me* so it's not some mega secret)


In my opinion, if your wife is a school teacher, she likely comes home with zero patience and *she likely needs some personal space*. If I were you, I would be VERY supportive of that AND encourage her to share more with you regarding her self exploration if she does not mind. You might even want to surprise her with a very nice toy and just tell her you enjoy knowing she really _enjoys_ her alone time. 

Now, the LAST thing you want to do is appear "needy" when it comes to sex. You might find it better to tell her how much you enjoy your "alone time" and *share* with her what things you think about. 

THEN once the two of you find ways to "connect" better in a fun and playful way WHILE you are APART from each other, sparks will fly naturally when the two of you are together and time allows for the two of you to be playful. 

Sincerely,
Badsanta

PS: If your wife "procrastinates" on chores/work often, I find that being supportive of that procrastination in lieu of being sexually playful with each other to be a winning combination in my marriage!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> No offense but this sounds awful. Doesn't really sound like marriage either.


Yes....

Loyalty...extreme loyalty....being true to one's vows does and can limit one's happiness quotient. 

Being internally/eternally positive-minded and flexible helps. This comes from Fate....not hopeful wants.

Be like Phoenix....[re-birth], bounce back from adversity.

In the short interim between conception and dirt-in-the-hole-covering-penny-closed-eyes, will NOT ALL be good. Savor what IS!


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

badsanta said:


> In my opinion, if your wife is a school teacher, she likely comes home with zero patience and *she likely needs some personal space*. If I were you, I would be VERY supportive of that AND encourage her to share more with you regarding her self exploration if she does not mind. You might even want to surprise her with a very nice toy and just tell her you enjoy knowing she really _enjoys_ her alone time.
> 
> Now, the LAST thing you want to do is appear "needy" when it comes to sex. You might find it better to tell her how much you enjoy your "alone time" and *share* with her what things you think about.
> 
> ...




See my wife will just lie and about when she does it. I've tried to engage her more but she's not going to share. She'll tell me three weeks later and be sketchy about the details so the information is useless.




badsanta said:


> Now, the LAST thing you want to do is appear "needy" when it comes to sex. You might find it better to tell her how much you enjoy your "alone time" and *share* with her what things you think about.



I've totally been doing this. I've been very blunt. I tell her I'm thinking about her, I want her, I want her there. It leads to nothing. She can't be bothered. It's going to be 100% on her terms. There's always an excuse. "I'm tired", "I'm gross 'down there'"(which isn't always true she's just an over self conscious idiot), "I'll have to shower after and I won't have time and my hair will dry funny and I'll get a headache". 


And I'm definitely not buying her a toy. We talked about it recently and it's like why would I attempt to totally replace myself?


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> PiS: Stop doing anything around the house. Hire a maid to do whatever needs to be done. Cost of maid comes out of whatever spending money your wife has access to.
> 
> At night and on weekends, take kids and go do something fun. Leave wife at home by herself. If she asks to join you, explain that you would rather she didn't.
> 
> ...



Maid: Not happening, I hate having strangers in my personal space. 

Camping we already do.

Yeah I want to get out and do more with the kids myself but they are 3 and 1 respectively. So major adventures aren't easy to execute right now. 

I'm not really sure what the point of the last paragraph is though.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

PersonInSpace said:


> I appreciate the comment, but my wife doesn't give me crap, at all, ever. She has a "You don't bother me I don't bother you policy". Which is collapsing in on itself, she's getting really fat and I'm getting really angry.


You let out THE word.

You held it IN for as long as you could. The posters on this site, TAM, will feast on the fat in that statement.

Be prepared. 

Me? I will lay back...very low and quiet....like a cat outside of a chipmunk hole. 

Women and fat do not cohabitate AT ALL. A man should never get in the middle of this feminine gristle. You and the fat remarks will be rendered to nothing, in her/their frying pan.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Me? I would ABSOLUTELY stop acting like a maid and babysitter.


Watching and spending time with your own children isn't "acting like a babysitter" it's called parenting. Regardless of the other advice to the OP (a lot of which I agree with) let's please not start up this idea subtly or otherwise that fathers watching their own children is "babysitting" that is done solely for the benefit of the mother.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Have you considered that depression might be a factor? 
Symptoms Include:-

Weight Gain
Lack of motivation inside/outside home
Lack of motivation for sex (even though her sex drive has not waned)
Lack of motivation for social activities (prefers internet & TV)


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Wow sorry but you sound controlling and petty. You accept no advice and you accept no help at home. Has to be done your way.

That's when a spouse checks out of the marriage.

For example your wife IS NOT procrastinating about the laundry. That is your priority, not hers. She's not lazy about housework - that's your priority, not hers.

She is under no obligation to value these trivial things as highly as you do. So what if the house is a bit messy? It's ACUALLY NOT A PROBLEM! only for you - not you too.

Trying to make her do these things is controlling.

If your priority is a clean house and hers isn't - then it's up to you. If you won't hire help and won't solve YOUR problem any other way, then you have to suck it up and do it yourself,

Same with watching the kids.

I'm probably more like your wife so our house is messy, we have tons of dirty laundry, but we have chosen to have a lower stress, happier, more emotionally enriched home for our family of 7. We make choices. And we make sure our choices are ok with everyone - not ideal but ok.

You're setting yourself up for failure and bitterness. I think you should take a step back and get some help so you're not tired and she's not overwhelmed. Just my $.02


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> And I'm definitely not buying her a toy. We talked about it recently and it's like why would I attempt to totally replace myself?


If YOU buy her a toy, it is NOT for the purpose of replacing you. It is for the purpose of creating a positive connection with her on an emotional level whenever the two of you are apart. 

You'll probably recall my recent poll on individuals that choose to or not to fantasize about a spouse during self exploration (got deleted as polling fantasies violates rules). The result of that was was that men tended to fantasize about a spouse while women had a tendency not to. Now you can easily understand that when you choose to fantasize about your wife while alone, that it actually serves to bring you closer to her. Odds are she likely fantasizes in a way about being with a partner that is not needy or confrontational about sex, which is likely not you, BUT you need to try and fit the criteria of someone she would want to fantasize about. So buying her a vibrator would be somewhat of a peace offering and sending her the gesture that you advocate for her to enjoy herself. This in turn would leave her to reflect about you in this regards anytime she uses the vibrator or whatever you buy her. 

Do this exercise.... Imagine your wife buying you a rather expensive fleshlight and telling you to enjoy using it when you think of her. Now imagine your wife buying you a rather cheap/cheesy novelty like vanilla scented lube and a box of minty tissues and asking you to use those when you think of her. One idea you might like and it will bring you closer to her, while the other you might find annoying/upsetting and get resentful at her. ...the purpose of that should demonstrate that "what" and "why" you buy her something sexual needs to be very well thought if you do it. 

If I were you, since she likes her phone, I would get her this... https://www.amazon.com/We-Vibe-Rechargeable-Silicone-Waterproof-Massager/dp/B00WB8B9FE/

...and see if she will let you start controlling the app one day from a distance!

Badsanta


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Wow sorry but you sound controlling and petty. You accept no advice and you accept no help at home. Has to be done your way.
> 
> That's when a spouse checks out of the marriage.
> 
> ...



Live like a slob and not be a man and take care of my kids. Thanks for the feedback. No more is required from you on this thread, thanks.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

badsanta said:


> If YOU buy her a toy, it is NOT for the purpose of replacing you. It is for the purpose of creating a positive connection with her on an emotional level whenever the two of you are apart.
> 
> You'll probably recall my recent poll on individuals that choose to or not to fantasize about a spouse during self exploration (got deleted as polling fantasies violates rules). The result of that was was that men tended to fantasize about a spouse while women had a tendency not to. Now you can easily understand that when you choose to fantasize about your wife while alone, that it actually serves to bring you closer to her. Odds are she likely fantasizes in a way about being with a partner that is not needy or confrontational about sex, which is likely not you, BUT you need to try and fit the criteria of someone she would want to fantasize about. So buying her a vibrator would be somewhat of a peace offering and sending her the gesture that you advocate for her to enjoy herself. This in turn would leave her to reflect about you in this regards anytime she uses the vibrator or whatever you buy her.
> 
> ...




We had a blowout fight about this last night. It became apparent pretty quick that she has a lot of built up resentment on this too. 

This situation is everything I feared it was. Sex toys are not appropriate at this time and I would be literally doing her the favor of replacing myself. 

The other detail I left out is I don't sleep in our bed most nights. Partially because she snores but mostly I my part because of resentment. She literally doesn't care. If she does care she doesn't care enough, or can't be bothered to say something. I never know where her head is at. 

So this is bad, and before one of you clowns mouths off saying some stupid s***, I'm not looking for an out. I want this to work more than anything. I'm really just venting at this point as this is a very depressing situation but yet very private. I can't air my dirty laundry out there everywhere in my world.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

If you want advice, we don't really know much of what happened last night to help with.

I think you should try to have a sit down, discussion, talk about things. Come to an agreement that if either of you starts to raise your voice you take a time out for a few minutes and then try again.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Tasorundo said:


> If you want advice, we don't really know much of what happened last night to help with.
> 
> I think you should try to have a sit down, discussion, talk about things. Come to an agreement that if either of you starts to raise your voice you take a time out for a few minutes and then try again.



I know I left the details of the fight out. There wasn't much substance but she was very defensive and it escalated to shouting very quickly.

I don't think the verbage is critically important at this stage but the fight had to happen. It's apparent that she doesn't want to be bothered for sex until she is 100% ready AND she get's to sneak around and masturbate when she wants. I'm no longer accepting this as the status quo and I'm not going to be all buddy-buddy with her in the meanwhile. That's what she wants, to take sex off the table so we can be friends. She masturbated that other day(thought I didn't know) and then wanted to be my best friend after. No longer acceptable. 

Like another poster on another thread said, "When the sex is good it's 10% of the marriage, when the sex is bad it's 90%". So true. I'm finding it hard to take care of my kids, my dog and myself properly during this time. This is undermining me badly. I told my wife via text to find someone to go out with Friday night. She replied "Why? Because you hate me?". I couldn't put why exactly into a text so I just told her "Just do it". I just can't look at her right now and I need time to myself with my kids. 

This problem isn't the end of the world and I could just rollover and take it like I have for years but I don't want to. I'm 36 and I feel I'm too young to settle for mediocrity.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

PersonInSpace said:


> We had a blowout fight about this last night. It became apparent pretty quick that she has a lot of built up resentment on this too.
> 
> This situation is everything I feared it was. Sex toys are not appropriate at this time and I would be literally doing her the favor of replacing myself.
> 
> ...


You are putting a lot of conditions on the "help" that "Weezus" here, can offer.

It has been established that YOU can not convince her. 

SHE has dug in her calloused heels. She does not feel the need to change or WANT to change.

Have you ruled out THIRD party assistance, such as a marriage counselor?

The *Alamo Solution *might work. Tell her that you love her, want the marriage to last, to the last breath.....then like Davy Crockett on the parapet...the Wall of the Alamo, you hit her with the but {not the butt of Davey's cartridge-empty-rifle} rather the transitional conjunction that takes the conversation to *The Ultimate Threat *, Divorce. 

Of course, you have no intention of carrying through on this....[but again!] she does not know this. Therein is your lever-age. The pry-bar to crack her hardened shell. Her response to this should reveal her feelings. 

She might say:

a) Don't threaten me!
b) I don't care anymore.
c) Yes, maybe we should.
d) Why, do you have someone else?
e) You are an azzhole, get out of here, leave me alone!
f) You think I care? Go ahead get out and find someone else!

You can add some more responses. Listen to what she says. The marriage is NOT YOUR decision, it is BOTH of your decisions.

You cannot control this ship, in this storm. You can lower the sails, cut into the waves, perpendicularly and steer, not to shore {that friggin "but" again} rather as a desperate attempt to keep it from sinking; your marriage from sinking. You are in a holding pattern now. Keeping it from sinking. You know that. 

Communicate your fears to her. Tell her your plans.....counseling and consoling, you want to work through this together..*let her know* that there *IS* a future together. A bright future.

You love your wife? *Tell her*. Quietly, with a shy grin. Fix the personality misfit and you will fix the sexual part of your marriage.
Bend that hard hat around your ears. A flexible {hat} keeps it from blowing OFF and down the dark alley that you find false-solace in. 

On Advice-from-Strangers? Process it, discard the chaff and chew on the protein-rich-kernals. Laugh off 'that" advice, which you now hate. When you personalize others opinions, you let them reside under your skin....itching and burning....you do not needs this.

Don't get mad...get on top of the shed. The watershed that you must traverse to solve this. 






Tell her that you want the marriage to work, but it will take two for this to occur.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> You are putting a lot of conditions on the "help" that "Weezus" here, can offer.
> 
> It has been established that YOU can not convince her.
> 
> ...




I appreciate the comments. Divorce is not on the table and will not be threatened. This just isn't to that level and I feel a threat like that now will do permanent damage to the relationship. It set's the standard that every time someone isn't happy it goes right to the divorce threat. 

But like you said the threats can't be hollow. What my wife does value is our closeness. We have a saying "I like you" instead of "I Love You". And what that means to us is 'I love you' is a given. I married you and you've been in my life forever, so even when your pissing me off I still love you, it didn't just stop. But 'I like you' means I love you AND I'm happy with you in the now. That's what I plan to take away. You're not going to be my best buddy and not give me loving. I listen to all your problems at work and we talk about other things and you're just going to either reject me for sex and or blow me off and go masturbate. Not anymore.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Person, I think you need to back off on the anger some, I don't feel it will be productive to the solution you desire.

You are hurt, and you are going to lash out. You need to find a way to separate her actions from an attack on you. They are not as much about you, or about hurting you as they are a symptom of something else.

You can communicate you are hurt, and why you are hurt, but to do it in an angry/aggressive way puts her on the defensive and wont lead to a productive discourse.

If you need some time apart (Friday for whatever you want to do) that is fine. You should tell her that you don't hate her, and that you love her very much, but you are processing this and it hurts.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> *We had a blowout fight* about this last night. It became apparent pretty quick that she has a lot of built up resentment on this too.
> 
> This situation is everything I feared it was. Sex toys are not appropriate at this time and I would be literally doing her the favor of replacing myself.


*So to be clear, you have a very strong fear of being replaced.

She has built up resentment over your confrontational state of her maintaining her individual sexuality within the marriage. *

You should really focus on rebuilding TWO things at this moment:

• TRUST
• COMMUNICATION

Your fear of being replaced is severely eroding both of those fundamental aspects of your marriage. To test this, see if this idea turns you on?



> You buy her a vibrator, she OMG enjoys it all on her own, but then she comes to you afterwards and proves she wants you and only loves you.


Now imagine playing peek-a-boo as a child.

Do you see any correlation to the psychology of those two situations as it relates to a primal _fear of abandonment_. The idea of your wife enjoying masturbating all on her own, and then sharing that with you in a way that allows you to reclaim her is the exact equivalent to playing a game of sexual peek-a-boo. Yes you are very upset and concerned when she is self exploring, but then you burst of happiness and joy when she come back to you that is overall more exciting and rewarding.

*NOW.... * try for a moment to imagine your wife trying to play this game with you as if she is the one that has a strong fear of loosing you. In this version, she takes you to a strip club and hires dancers of her choice to give you lap dances and is extremely sensitive to watch you enjoying it. Then you get back home and she demands you explain in detail why you enjoyed the lapdance so much, but what she is actually getting at is wanting you to confess you need and enjoy her exponentially more (but she does not understand this is her desire). She puts you through this type of situation repeatedly and is eager to go to strip clubs with you when you are NOT in the mood for it anymore. Then you tell her you just want things simple, and she gets upset because she can no longer use strippers to please you and indirectly get herself ramped up to reclaim you, which takes away all her fun and leads to a *BLOWOUT FIGHT* because you are getting very resented towards her. ...now if this were a realistic situation, what is it you would need from her? Once you find the answer, you will start to understand what your wife might need from you. 

Hope that helps,
Badsanta


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

PiS: You say you want help, but it appears what you really want is for us to offer advice that fits squarely within your narrow comfort zone. Don't tell you to divorce. Don't tell you to get her a toy. Don't tell you to get a maid. Just tell you that what you are already comfortable doing will work. Sorry, we cannot do that for you. We can offer advice, but some of it may require you to move outside your comfort zone. Your choice to reject the advice you dislike. But don't make it seem that it is our fault for giving you bad advice.

Please realize that I am also rejecting lots of advice from people here. I am not willing to move outside my comfort zone, either. So I understand the strong emotional desire to stay within one's self-imposed limits. But my decision to remain comfortable isn't producing a happy marriage for me. And I doubt it will produce one for you.

Wishing you peace and success.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think you should stay angry at your W, don't buy her a toy to enjoy alone and with you, don't get any help cleaning or with the kids, pressure your W for sex constantly, do the housework yourself, get very angry and lash out, and definitely don't listen to your W.

You should be in great shape if you just continue to NOT follow my advice.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> I appreciate the comments. Divorce is not on the table and will not be threatened. This just isn't to that level and I feel a threat like that now will do permanent damage to the relationship. It set's the standard that every time someone isn't happy it goes right to the divorce threat.


You can't threaten divorce if you won't follow through, so don't do that.

What you can do is say that because of how you feel about the marriage, the only way that you can deal with the situation is to protect yourself by withdrawing emotionally. You resist doing that because you know that it will almost certainly have a detrimental affect on the marriage. You fear that it may result in the marriage breaking up at some future date. But, if she's unwilling to consider addressing your issues, you don't have a choice. 

Assuming that this has no effect (and it probably won't), then begin the 180 to start withdrawing emotionally.

She'll either care or she won't. 

Stop saying "I like you".


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> I'm too young to settle for mediocrity.


Yet not too young to create misery.

While ever you continue to think and act as you do, you will continue to encounter the same problems regardless of who your sexual partners are.


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## MEM1963 (Jun 16, 2016)

Person,

You seem angry and defensive. I don't believe you will be able to receive help until you let go of that anger. 

And thats unfortunate, because at this point, your plan to is to apply pressure in order to achieve compliance. 

That particular strategy typically yields a very low result to effort ratio.






PersonInSpace said:


> We had a blowout fight about this last night. It became apparent pretty quick that she has a lot of built up resentment on this too.
> 
> This situation is everything I feared it was. Sex toys are not appropriate at this time and I would be literally doing her the favor of replacing myself.
> 
> ...


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

UPDATE:


So we talked about it, talked about it some more. Banged, banged again. Watched some porn while doing it. It was really hot. 

I realized in this encounter that "This chick really likes porn!".


Then I thought about why I hadn't realized this earlier. I knew she watched porn and we had on occasion watched together. But then I remembered:

My wife had gotten pregnant with twins at the end of 2010. She developed an incompetent cervix and and had a cerclage installed. Sex would be 100% off limits for months. She eventually went into pre-term labor in may 2011 and the babies didn't make it.

Then in early 2012 she was pregnant again and as a precaution sex was 100% off the table again and again when she was pregnant with our second child in 2014--15. 

During this time sex was 100% off the table for a total of about 18 or 19 months. Then of course we've raising two young ones since. I realized all of this had gotten our sex life way off track. Maybe we didn't know each other sexually like we used to.

Anyhow since she chose me over porn one time. Then yesterday she beat off to porn and I discovered it was gay(man on man) porn. So I know why I wasn't invited to that party :laugh:. But she then initiated sex with me that night. 

Through communication everything is getting better. And I think her watching guy on guy porn is hilarious. You can't even categorize that!!!! :grin2::grin2:


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

PersonInSpace said:


> I realized in this encounter that "This chick really likes porn!"


Yeah..... she's not attracted to you. I'm sure she loves you but the lust is probably long gone. This is a stepping stone to a checked out wife.

Pick up MMSLP and learn how to seduce your wife again. Also, hit the gym and start lifting heavy weights 3 times a week if you don't already.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah..... she's not attracted to you. I'm sure she loves you but the lust is probably long gone. This is a stepping stone to a checked out wife.
> 
> Pick up MMSLP and learn how to seduce your wife again. Also, hit the gym and start lifting heavy weights 3 times a week if you don't already.


Maybe, maybe not. Being told by a doctor that you can't have sex for as long as 18-19 months at a stretch will cause one to seek alternatives - which she clearly did.

We spend so much time on here discussing porn addiction in regards to men, and the bottom line is that it's not ALWAYS that the guy is no longer attracted to his partner.

In this case, there was trauma involved 5-ish years ago, which, technically, had nothing to do with sex, but also had everything to do with it at the same time. Masturbation was/is "safe".

So I wouldn't be so quick to say "she's not attracted to you" in this case. I would say that porn and masturbation became a safe alternative to sex, partly because it was the only outlet for quite some time, partly because there was a roundabout trauma associated with intercourse several years ago.

As for the type of porn she's watching - it's not all that out there to find one watching things (such as gay male porn), when there's an addiction. Often, watching the same old-same old is not enough, therefore porn addicts start turning to different things to get their engines revving.

Over all, though, it's a step in the right direction that she's at least allowing her husband into this world of hers. It may not be the healthiest scenario, but it's certainly better than blocking him entirely.

And from a purely "silver lining" point of view - she clearly has a strong sex drive. That's a good thing, and frankly, OP is lucky in that regard.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

PersonInSpace said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> 
> So we talked about it, talked about it some more. Banged, banged again. Watched some porn while doing it. It was really hot.
> ...


I would like to suggest you get a device that can run Kodi. Find a YouTube video that has instructions on how to download Video Devil. Once you have the Video Devil Add-On, you can watch all the gay, hetero, pee and poop porn you can handle right there on your own TV for free.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

PersonInSpace said:


> Why so nothing can get done? You don't understand my wife. If she doesn't want to do something, she just doesn't do it. If I don't do this stuff we will just live in filth and this expensive house I pay for won't even be worth it. Just the same with sex, I can withhold and she just doesn't care. She might make a comment but she won't do anything about it.
> 
> *The truth is she doesn't really love me, *I just represent a comfort zone to her. I've been too good over the years in too many ways and *she just doesn't fear me enough*.


Then sex, masturbation and porn is just a symptom of the underlying problem, isn't it?

You're 36 and married to a woman who doesn't love you, and you are unhappy with her lack of involvement in your marriage, your house, child care, everything. Yet, only the sex is your concern?

I don't think "she just doesn't fear you enough." Fear does not inspire _love_, certainly not for a lifetime.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

It's amazing how few of you are able to pick up what I'm putting down.


You all need help with your schadenfreude obsession.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

PersonInSpace said:


> It's amazing how few of you are able to pick up what I'm putting down.
> 
> 
> You all need help with your schadenfreude obsession.


 @PersonInSpace it is not a schadenfreude obsession, but rather more of an adult induced ODD from low blood sugar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder

Post some emoji's of cookies and cake and people will warm up to you!










Badsanta


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Upadate: 

Like I said in an earlier post. We talked about it. We had sex. We included porn. She's twice recently initiated sex with me, which is great. We've had a much increased amount of sex lately. These are all good things and things seem on track, but she still masturbates regularly.

I've got it down to a science. She does it just about every other day. She'll either go up to bed early, or go "take a nap" or it will be when I'm out of the house. It's like clockwork. I don't have to catch her on camera or in the act anymore, she leaves the pages open in her google browser windows. It doesn't bother me so much when I'm out of the house except the predictability of it. 

She did it again today. I got out of work early and she wanted to take a nap. She tried napping on the couch but ended up going up stairs to the bedroom. Typically she would tell me if she was switching locations or something like that but she didn't. I knew why. I had checked her phone earlier, no porn, after nap, lots of porn.

So afterward I was aggravated and I was trying hard not to show it. I was home and she had every opportunity to include me but snuck around instead. She even told the story of how she went upstairs to nap instead and hesitated when she said she fell asleep(story was about something else). 

So here's where I'm at with it. I was right on the cusp of just telling her I know what she did. I felt like it would make me feel better. I don't like being lied to or disrespected. I don't like the idea that there is this unspoken thing going on in our house and our relationship. It's affecting my moods knowing I'm being lied to. But I didn't say anything. I felt it would in the short term create a bad situation in the household because she would be mad I looked at her phone. Then of course she would just get more creative in hiding it.

I only have 2 choices: Confront her about everything that I know and tell her how I feel. Or learn to deal with it. If I tell her I don't think it will get me the results I want. I don't think this is something I can overcome or defeat. She either just really likes masturbating or she only partially likes me. I feel she truly loves me and doesn't want to be with anyone else, but it's a dreadful thought for me to think that she might be sexually unsatisfied and she's just living with it for the sake of the relationship. Or she just is a masturbtor and always will be? 

Why is it that she can't express herself sexually with me? Why are women such complicated creatures? When we watched porn together a few times recently it was all me. She was totally hands off the iphone and had ZERO input. Which is bull because I know she knows how to find porn and I know she knows what she likes. I also feel her initiating sex might just be a temporary appeasement. I just don't simply like the idea. She just can't communicate and express what she likes and what she wants and it drives me mad. 

Finally, why can't I just make peace with it? It's not that bad of a scenario. It's not like she's cheating. Why was it for the better part of the last 15 years I didn't give a **** and now suddenly it's eating me alive? 


Folks, I'm really using this thread at this point as a journal to document and express my thoughts and feelings as I try to understand this time in my life and relationship. If there is something you have to add that can help me relate feel free. If you're going to only read 1/3 of the post and just try and pile on me to make yourself feel better about yourself please move on.


edit: Another thought. Is her behavior indicative of porn addiction? I think it sort of is. It's frequent, calculated and she hides it like an addict would. I have to read up on the subject.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

PersonInSpace said:


> Why is it that she can't express herself sexually with me?.


She is not going to unless you talk about it. Quit being scared and TALK about it. Ask to join in, it doesn't have to be about you getting off.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

FrenchFry said:


> @PersonInSpace,
> 
> I understand that you are mostly venting and I appreciate that. Frankly, your situation is interesting to me because I have similar feeling that if my husband knew the extent of my own masturbation he would also be less than thrilled. I feel for your wife because there are a few indicators in your posts that you may not be the "safe harbor" to tell you personal, private things without taking them too personally.
> 
> ...




I really appreciate your post. I feel it's really on point and much of what I expect to be the reality. As far as coming to her out of pure curiosity, that's how it started, a long time ago. When I was younger I didn't have this insecurity. It was never a high pressure situation.

Isn't this problem ultimately about her inability to communicate her needs? We pride ourselves as a couple on our closeness and being able to communicate with each other. She brags about it. Why can't she just say "I need to rub one out before this day over" like I can?

Maybe female masturbation is something I may never fully understand, but I can understand that I don't understand it, if you try and communicate that. At what point do you just let go and be yourself? I feel it's a week game plan to think you can masturbate every other day in secret for the rest of your life as a coping mechanism and not think you'll be discovered or that it will have consequences.

The other difficulty I have is how her habit ties into her procrastination. She systematically prioritizes masturbation and puts other needs second. Then after planning a whole night around housework. And she gets a big chip on her shoulder when she does it like she's been slaving all night. No joke she once started cleaning the house at 12:15am and started shouting commands at me and trying to get things done. She's actually doing it right now at 11:24 pm. But she masturbated earlier. How I am supposed to feel about the guilt trip I'm being given right now? You deliberately skipped sex with me, wasted your afternoon, but now at 11:24pm I'm supposed to gung ho about chores??? Oh must be nice you got off today because I didn't.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

FrenchFry said:


> How would you take her saying that? Would you offer to jump in? Would you be hurt if you did offer and she said "No thank you?"
> What if you wanted sex and she just wanted to masturbate and go to bed?
> 
> The possibilities of how this question could be answered is really complicated. I can't imagine saying that to my husband without him wanting to jump in and then being frustrated if I said no, I want to go solo, it's too much work right now. I've never tried it so I don't know what his real reaction would be but I do know what his reaction is if I reject him *without* saying "hey, I'm gonna go jill off," and it's not a good one. Not as tumultuous as it used to be, but definitely not a casual reaction either.
> ...



You make some excellent points and definitely give me a lot to think about. 




FrenchFry said:


> How would you take her saying that? Would you offer to jump in? Would you be hurt if you did offer and she said "No thank you?"
> What if you wanted sex and she just wanted to masturbate and go to bed?



This scenario would make things worse. But it raises another question. Why does she get a pass? Because she's female? Is that not a double standard to just say "You don't understand. It will kill my buzz to have to share it with you?". What ritual do I get to hide or how do I get to lie about my time? What if I was secretly visiting strip clubs(which I don't cause I don't care for them or their coked out skanks)? Would that just be acceptable because "I'm a guy"? How would you feel if your man not only lied about being at a strip club, but then acted like he's been working hard at home during that time and made you feel bad about it?

The other question: Is this in the realm of porn addiction? Every other day works out to 182 days a year. That's a lot of time set aside for a full time teacher, wife and mom. It mimics the form of other addictive behavior.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

FrenchFry said:


> Right now she gets a pass because you are doing a crazy dance where she knows she masturbates, you know she does and yet both of you are pretending towards the other that she doesn't.
> 
> Because you have no idea why she does it and aren't ready to find out why dispassionately as possible, you are going to continue to have an open weird secret.
> 
> ...




I really appreciate your comments, they are very insightful.


I really honestly wish I could just get my mind off of it. I didn't care forever and now I do for some reason. It's one of those things in life that just kind of are what they are. It makes for interesting conversation and it's definitely opened my eyes to things.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

FrenchFry said:


> All I'm going to go is tell you what I would tell my husband if he approached me. He actually might read this, who knows.
> 
> 1) Masturbation actually does help me nap very quickly. Without it, I don't nap and I really enjoy naps. I actually enjoy the combination and while sex is wonderful, it's far more work when my real goal is actually a nap. Sex is work. Masturbation is mindless.
> 
> ...


I see where you're coming from, my wife also used to "jill off" before napping. And I know that, as a guy, sometimes you just want the release and you're just not up to the effort of having sex with your SO. And none of this is a problem if your partner is happy with your sex life.

But there are a couple of problems here:

1) The OP isn't happy with the frequency of sex.

2) While a woman can masturbate and be ready to go with her partner moments later, it doesn't work that way for guys (at least older guys). He can't get the same "release" she gets because sex is unpredictable and he needs to be ready to go at any time.

3) He thought they weren't having sex because she didn't have desire. It turns out she does, just not for him, and that hurts.

I think it's the last one that he has the biggest problem with.

If he was having more sex with her, I'm sure he'd have much less of a problem with her frequent masturbation.

Also (I know you didn't say this) but what would we usually hear on TAM if a guy was watching porn, masturbating and not having sex with his wife? Even the most enlightened would say that, if it's affecting your sex life, porn is a problem.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

FrenchFry said:


> All I can suggest is trying to tackle what is bothering you independently instead of blaming one issue on other things.
> 
> Like:
> 
> ...




You are brilliant! 


You know I have been communicating with her about these things. I'm trying not to inundate her I'm just trying to slowly plant seeds and figure out how she feels about different things. So far the results are positive.

Also in my mind I had to equate her masturbation to something in my mind. I think I had that "Ah Ha!" moment today. 

-She masturbates on her schedule when she feels she needs to in secret. This irks me, but I must accept this. I must have some behavior that could potentially bother her and she just deals with it. I realized what my behavior is:

I check out women in public. I do it, I've always done it and I probably always will. I do try hard NOT to be a creeper and make things uncomfortable for people(like some guys I know). But if there's a hotty in a restaurant or the mall, and I can have a look without it being awkward I will. 

I like doing it. I feel it recharges my batteries. I never pretend I'm not married or lead women on that I'm available. I feel that's wrong. In fact on the off chance I forget to wear my ring out I occasionally notice women notice me more and engage me more. Halfway through wondering why I notice my ring isn't there and I feel like a fraud.

So there is it, my quirk. Some girlfirnds or wives would FREAK OUT, And my wife is just cool with it. Like I said I like bigger girls and curvy girls so my wife likes to make a game out of getting me to notice them and then making it comically uncomfortable for me. I mean, that's pretty dam cool of her. So maybe next time I discover she had a solo party without me, I can remember full on I checked out women right in front of her at the mall that day and got no flack for it. She understands, I should understand.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Another day, more bull****.


So she's on her period. And she's made it clear to me over the years that she it "Totally off limits" and won't fool around with me at all. She claims it makes her period worse. Even if I'm desperate she acts annoyed and bothered with the idea. Then she goes and masturbates to porn today and thinks I don't know. I think that's F-in BS. Like I can't say it loud enough BULLLL SS******!!!!!!!!!!!!


My conclusion is I just have an unfair sex partner. It's not cheating so it's not grounds for divorce, but this is BS. My only choices are to be an equally unfair partner. I'm really feeling like anything goes and whatever consequences happen she brought upon herself. It's unlikely I'll cheat since with my lifestyle my lady friends have faded over the years. But I think I'm to just withhold sex. She wants this to be a game, I can play games.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@PersonInSpace then end your marriage in order to go and have sex with other women or tell her that while ever she doesn't have sex with you, you are going to have sex with other women and do exactly that.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

PiS: Withholding sex from someone who would rather masturbate than have sex with you does not punish them, it punishes you. If you want to "fight back" then I suggest you withhold something SHE wants rather than something YOU want. Stop taking out the trash. Stop talking to her. Stop letting her know in advance when you are coming home.
Not suggesting that playing "tit for tat" is the best strategy. But if you want to play, at least make moves that have a hope of triggering a negative reaction in her. Refraining from asking for sex will probably make her happy. THAT is the core issue here. She doesn't yearn to have sex with you. If you can't change that dynamic, you will never get to your goal.
And I know it is not what you want to hear, but to be with a woman who yearns to have sex with you, you will likely have to divorce your wife and find another woman to be with.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It seems to me that if you're at the point of witholding in order to punish your partner and strong arm more sex your marriage is in big trouble and this action is unlikely to accomplish anything. 

If your goal is simply to be an ahole then go ahead. We all have a bit of that desire. ....i have moments where for various reasons I really want to be a b!tch, and occasionally I do it. But ask yourself what you're ultimately going to get from it. 

I do think that even though it's wonderful sex can also be tiring and I totally get the wanting a quick release thing. Look at how many guys here complain about duty sex. .... so it's not enough to participate. She must also be enthusiastic or he doesn't feel wanted..... tough thing to navigate. 

Forgive me if you've addressed this but my impression is that your wife isn't bonded to you and doesn't get what she needs in bed with you. This may not necessarily be your fault. ... she's got to speak up and make her needs known. 

So are your sure your wife actually gets off with you? Many women don't and are afraid to share for fear of hurting feelings, and you strike me as one who wouldn't take that well.

Have you had this discussion with her? Again, forgive me if you've already addressed this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

I've sometimes wondered if I'm totally out of line for having these feelings or creating this post, but then there's recent events that remind me I'm not. 


For example I just walked in on her going at it 20 minutes ago. I was working in the basement for awhile and came upstairs to tell her something. The Olympics were on tv and I think I'm walking into nothing when she she slammed her phone down and I could here the snap of her pants as she ripped her hand out. She totally froze up and was just like "what" in a deep guilty voice. She wanted no part of talking to me. 

Now I get it, we all masturbate and getting caught off guard isn't fun, but c'mon, I'm your husband. Your sexual partner that you claim you love having sex with. She treated me like as was her father walking in. She acted like a teenager. It was so uncomfortable and it just totally put up a wall. It was so awkward. Not to mention, we already had sex today. And it's always a concern of a significant other when they slam their phone down when you walk in the room and act guilty.


During sex we decided to watch porn again, and again, she refused to participate in the selection of what we watch. She acts as if she is abstinent and completely un-knowledgeable of porn. I always choose and she always claims to enjoy what I choose.


Here's where it gets weird. I've noticed the pattern that she watches porn with an incest theme. It's not illegal porn or anything, but more the less cheesy youporn vids themed around the idea of incest style taboo. When I first discovered it I was like "Hey, sometimes you watch weird stuff, I've done it." But I've noticed it's a very consistent theme and probably 80-85% of what I find on her phone. Kinda weird.


This is where it gets weirder. They other day we were getting dinner and I was rambling about what like was life with my dad. My parents are divorced and my wife never met my father. She's always curious(as her parents are still together) so I occasionally give her tid bits so she can feel she understands where I'm really coming from. During the story I saw the look on her face and I knew exactly what she was going to ask. "Did you and your stepsister(who's my age) ever hook up?" I was so grossed out I said "HELL NO". Even weirder was the look on her face where she fully expected me to say yes. Now If someone else out there hooked up with a step sibling, whatever, I'm not judging you, but in my case this was a definite no.


It's no wonder she keeps this whole side of her such a secret. But it's weird that I have to co-exist with this split personality of my wife's sexuality and desire. I want to share all parts of my sexuality with her and it seems I haven't even seen 50% of hers yet and never will. This whole world around me is being exposed to me. I am not sure if I am noticing it because it's an amplified version of what's been happening or if it's been there all along and now I just have the info. 

Either way it's uncomfortable. It's affecting my moods and my actions. When she acted like that tonight my night was ruined. It makes me feel unwanted and like a burden. I gave her everything I had today in bed and now this. I'm not comfortable even going upstairs after this because I don't know what I'm walking into.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> It seems to me that if you're at the point of witholding in order to punish your partner and strong arm more sex your marriage is in big trouble and this action is unlikely to accomplish anything.
> 
> If your goal is simply to be an ahole then go ahead. We all have a bit of that desire. ....i have moments where for various reasons I really want to be a b!tch, and occasionally I do it. But ask yourself what you're ultimately going to get from it.
> 
> ...




Yeah, I just say withholding sex is an option because I feel powerless. 


The thing is I did, talk to her about it, and she made adjustments to make sure I'm better taken care of, but it has not changed her patterns of masturbation at all. Which many people will say "is different" from sex, but my above post will shed some light and why it's more complicated then that.


Here's another problem I'm having. Assuming you've read my new post, as a husband I now can't help like feeling like I'm stuck in some kind of sex slavery. I just feel her attitude towards sex is "Have it with me if you want to, because otherwise I have my own thing going on. Hope you enjoy it". It's really getting in my head and affecting my confidence. Is she just putting out all duty sex? If so that's not cool, I want her to be happy. Also will her secret and very active hidden desires turn into actions like emotional and physical cheating? I really need to know how she really feels otherwise there can't be real understanding and real love. 

I know every one says "just talk to her", but she is so unwilling and unable to share her feelings. I am not sure she even understands them and that's scary.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So you get to be judgemental of her kinks but she's supposed to open up to you. Talk about living in a fantasy. You can't have it both ways.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think you deserve her being unwilling to share her feelings. You reap what you sow.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So you get to be judgemental of her kinks but she's supposed to open up to you. Talk about living in a fantasy. You can't have it both ways.



I don't remember signing up for incest as being normal. I get judged for things in the relationship all the time. However, I share my desires, and sometimes it's embarrassing and sometimes it's an experience that brings us closer. But I'm willing to put myself out there, to my life partner. I come here to express these feelings that can't exactly talk to friends or family about. Your comment is really a display that you didn't fully read or didn't comprehend the thread.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Your situation is your choice. You can have an open wife. Or you can be judgemental. Not both. You can certainly keep pretending otherwise but sooner or later you'll have to come to terms with it. Your reactions are not compatible with her opening up.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Your situation is your choice. You can have an open wife. Or you can be judgemental. Not both. You can certainly keep pretending otherwise but sooner or later you'll have to come to terms with it. Your reactions are not compatible with her opening up.




So is it the fantasy or the total secrecy that I'm supposed to be cool with? Or both?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Do you enjoy the sex she shares with you?

Do you think she enjoys the sex she shares with you?


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> Do you enjoy the sex she shares with you?
> 
> Do you think she enjoys the sex she shares with you?




1) Yes. But she doesn't put much if any effort in. She basically arrives at the party and it's all up to me.

2) Seriously questioning that at this time. She definitely has a level of satisfaction, but to what total degree I have little clue. I am really questioning how honest she is about that.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

What does effort look like, what do you want her to do?

Would you feel this way, if you didn't know she masturbated as often as she does


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

PersonInSpace said:


> So there is it, my quirk. Some girlfirnds or wives would FREAK OUT, And my wife is just cool with it. Like I said I like bigger girls and curvy girls so my wife likes to make a game out of getting me to notice them and then making it comically uncomfortable for me. I mean, that's pretty dam cool of her. So maybe next time I discover she had a solo party without me, I can remember full on I checked out women right in front of her at the mall that day and got no flack for it. She understands, I should understand.


I do just want to point out that she may not actually be cool with it, and she's dealing with it in the best way she can.

There are some people out there, my wife being one, who for a multitude of reasons, do not want to be "that" person, who's constantly forbidding things in relationships, or making all the rules. The first year or so I was dating my wife, she made it seem like I could do anything I fancied, with no consequences (within reason, of course). She really wanted to be the "cool" girlfriend.

As we progressed and became more serious, and eventually hit the points she had never really hit in relationships before, she gradually changed her tune - and I was glad she did, TBH. She had truly never had a _serious_ relationship before (despite a couple lasting for 2, 3 years). They were more casual long term relationships than anything, and the lack of setting limits and establishing basic ground rules typically resulted in those relationships going boom. Basic fear of commitment, IMO, where one is too scared to establish anything, really, that is pretty commonplace in a relationship.

Yet for a long time, she didn't want to be "that" girlfriend.

FYI, most women don't want their partners leering at other women. They know we do on occasion, and vice versa, and that it's harmless, but when it becomes a "thing", that's another story.

Her compliance and active participation in this likely means that she doesn't feel particularly connected to you in that way, especially if the women you tend to leer at don't look like her. Typically people are possessive (in a good way) about their partners, and that includes not actively participating (ie. pointing out, commenting on) people their spouse might find attractive.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

PersonInSpace said:


> 1) Yes. But she doesn't put much if any effort in. She basically arrives at the party and it's all up to me.
> 
> 2) Seriously questioning that at this time. She definitely has a level of satisfaction, but to what total degree I have little clue. I am really questioning how honest she is about that.


My guess is that she has some kinks, given what you've said in this thread recently, and is somewhat loathe to discuss them with you for obvious reasons. It seems as though she did actually try (when she inquired about your step-sister) and your reaction was basically one of disgust, which likely will not prompt her to bring it up again. It also makes sense from the standpoint that you have tried to get her to select the porn on occasion, and she declines. Likely because she's scared of what your reaction would be to her tastes. It also makes sense as to why she's so secretive about her porn watching and masturbation - it's not a subject she feels comfortable sharing with you.

What I genuinely think you need to do at this point, is come to terms with the subject matter that obviously turns her on, and do your best to understand and perhaps accept it, thus using it as a tool to better your sex life. Given what she clearly likes, that may be a tall order, but you also have to remember that it's likely 99% fantasy. I'm not an expert on fetishes and kinks, because I really don't have any, therefore I don't have the understanding of why people like the things they do when they happen to be out of the norm. I have a thing for small breasts, even flat-chested women, so that's about the closest I can get. I have no idea why, or where that came from, and it's anything but a fetish. But I do understand that most people who have kinks or fetishes (not preferences, big difference) have a genuine reason for it. Past experiences, even past traumas. The human brain is a weird and wonderful (and sometimes dark) place. There may or may not be a reason you have a thing for bigger women, but you do.

Your wife is clearly into incest type porn. As long as it's purely fantasy, I see no issue with it. You may not understand it, but it's her thing. I think you need to do a little digging, and hopefully come to accept it and incorporate her fantasies and make her feel comfortable opening up about it. She may not even know why she's drawn to it.

Bottom line, she's into something that you're not, thus her reluctance to be open about her masturbation. The frequency of masturbation may also be directly tied to her inability to truly be satisfied with her sex life - not your abilities or skill in the bedroom, but the lack of her preferences/fantasies, etc.

I am still genuinely learning things about my sex life, and what makes my wife tick, and what works for her. As an example, very recently, I talked dirty to her during sex. Nothing nasty, no names, nothing like that. Just how it felt, how she felt to me, compliments, and how hard I was going to finish (using language I can't repeat here). I didn't do it in a romantic "ooo baby" type of way, I was blunt and direct - and she loved every second of it.

This is not something she would have ever come to me and requested I do during sex. I just happened to do it and she reacted very very positively. I learned something. As long as I've been with her, I've known she prefers to be F'd, not made love to. I'm the opposite. I'm slow and passionate. She likes to get pounded. That's the way it is. So I make sure to incorporate her preference more often than not. It is what it is.

Your wife is into something that you likely don't understand, and is a rather taboo subject. She knows this. I really do think she was testing the waters a bit when she asked about your step-sister. The ball's in your court now. You know what she's into, so you can use that to your, and her, advantage. It is what it is, but at least you KNOW what it is.

So you have three options:

- ignore it, which is what you've largely been doing
- attempt to understand it from her POV (without judgement) and hopefully embrace it, and incorporate her kinks into your sex life
- reject it entirely and therefore reject her


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I guess I'm the odd one out on this thread because I find the OP's obsession - and that's what it *IS* - with his wife's masturbation disgusting, perverse, and over the top intrusive.

Freakin' installing motion sensor cams and constantly playing them back just to 'catch' her? *Seriously*? Going through her phone all the time and seeing which porn she was watching? You sound like all those desperate housewives who want to control every facet of a man's sexuality by trying to control his porn usage, control his masturbation, and deluding themselves into thinking *they* should be the ONLY thing he should ever find arousing or have fantasies about again for the rest of his entire life. 

How's that working for ya? I'd say about as well as it works for the deluded housewives attempting the same bullsh*t with their husbands.

If I ever caught my husband setting up cams in the house or sneaking up the stairs because he's so freakin' pathetic that he's obsessed with trying to 'catch me,' I'd kick his ass right into next Tuesday. The whole thing is completely nauseating.


> Now I get it, we all masturbate and getting caught off guard isn't fun, but c'mon, I'm your husband. Your sexual partner that you claim you love having sex with. She treated me like as was her father walking in. She acted like a teenager. It was so uncomfortable and it just totally put up a wall. It was so awkward. Not to mention, we already had sex today. And it's always a concern of a significant other when they slam their phone down when you walk in the room and act guilty.


You really *DON'T* get it. Your behavior is *creepy *as hell and you've made it some kind of personal goal to police this woman's every move and completely invade every facet of her privacy. It's abnormal and it's CREEPY.

What's next? Drilling holes in the wall and peeping from them? Telling her you're going out then hiding in the closet and spying on her all night? Oh wait - you have your cheesy cams to do that. Hiding under the bed and using a periscope camera to get better action shots? 

Where does this *unhealthy* obsession stop?

Here's a tip for you. If your wife WANTED to share her private fantasies and kinks with you, she would have. All your underhanded spying and constant monitoring of her every move sure isn't going to make her want to do it.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

The more taboo something is, the more erotic power it holds. Breaking a taboo in fantasy is what is compelling about it. It doesn't mean she wants a Daddy/Princess, or a step brother/sister fantasy to come to life. This stuff gets imprinted on people's brains, and no one really knows how, whether that is incest fantasies, or foot fetishes or whatever. 

Incest fantasies are very common and very popular! If you check out the erotic stories on Literotica, Incest & Taboo is one of the most popular categories with the most stories. It doesn't mean all those people who are turned on by it for masturbation actually want to make those fantasies come true - most people absolutely do *not *want their sexual fantasies to play out in real life. But they can't help what their brains tell them is erotic. I suspect you've had a fantasy or two that would be disturbing to other people. Most of us do!

So, you've learned a lot - now you know why she doesn't share her masturbation and porn use with you. She is either ashamed or uncertain of your reaction, probably both. Will you please stop spying on her now, and stop trying to catch her masturbating?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I almost completely agree, and I would apply the same to porn.

Where it gets tricky is if she is also regularly turning him down for sex. I think in a marriage, one partner should be the primary target of sexual activity. Masturbation, watching porn, etc can become a problem if it starts to replace this.

Still, spying is never acceptable. 




She'sStillGotIt said:


> I guess I'm the odd one out on this thread because I find the OP's obsession - and that's what it *IS* - with his wife's masturbation disgusting, perverse, and over the top intrusive.
> 
> Freakin' installing motion sensor cams and constantly playing them back just to 'catch' her? *Seriously*? Going through her phone all the time and seeing which porn she was watching? You sound like all those desperate housewives who want to control every facet of a man's sexuality by trying to control his porn usage, control his masturbation, and deluding themselves into thinking *they* should be the ONLY thing he should ever find arousing or have fantasies about again for the rest of his entire life.
> 
> ...


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I doubt she feels a connection to him, honestly. When she spent time trying to talk about the stuff that's important to her, he implied it was boring and a "total boner shrinker." He had a covert contract that if he spent time with her, they would have sex.

He has cameras around the house to check on what she's up to, but doesn't want to lose his upper hand so won't confront her with the knowledge he's gained. 

This whole things sounds like a wreck honestly. She has a weird incest fetish (which clearly is a thing for a enough people that's it basically a rote joke for movies/television/books - IE Game of Thrones/Crimson Peak/countless animes) and you have your own weird thing going on about the whole fact you have cameras in the house recording her so you can know her masturbation schedule and "catch her."

What is her secrecy an issue but the fact that you are spying on her and being secret about it okay?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Personally I don't think any or your problems in your marriage have to do with sex, they are just a symptom of the problem. The problem is the lack of honest communication. You guys do not talk about any of this, you post on here about it. You will never solve the problems unless you open up and tell her how you feel and let her do the same. You need to have a concerted effort to get this all out in the open. It will take you being vulnerable but then you can decide by her actions if it is worth you continuing.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Yes, the spy cameras are too much.

I can sort of see how he got there, but still. I don't know about the rest of you, but usually when you catch your partner masturbating, the situation isn't treated as though they were caught by a parent or somebody else you'd be horrified to be caught by.

In other words, if you get busted by your spouse, one doesn't normally react in the way OP's wife does.

Masturbation is a solo thing, I get that. Privacy in a marriage is important, as well. But sometimes, like in this case, it's as though OP's wife is leading a second life.

When someone here suspects their partner is cheating, spying on them is usually the first suggestion. It's assumed they're doing something wrong, thus justifying it. This is equally suspicious, IMO, but for different reasons. But reasons that are nonetheless affecting the marriage, and the OP.

Communication (as usual... sigh) would likely solve this. We shouldn't be afraid of talking to our partners about anything. This is just as much his fault as it is hers. Just freakin' talk, already.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Bit late to the party (if you call this a party lol) but the whole camera thing is freaky and honestly a little disturbing. I mean, I can understand why you would find your W masturbating hot, but seriously, how is this any better then setting up a hidden camera to spy on someone you don't know?

Now as for the other parts, which may have been addressed already (I skimmed through this thread). When the kids are asleep and you guys have alone time, the phones NEED to go away. This was a problem I was having with my W, she would bury her face in her phone, looking through FB, Pinterest, etc... It got to the point where I actually took the phone out of her hands and threw it (gently, I didn't want to have to buy her a new phone lol). 

The next issue, if she is rejecting you and still masturbating that is a huge issue, IMO there is no other way around it. If she is expending her sexual energy alone which means she has less sexual energy for you, that is a problem. It doesn't necessarily mean this is just her issue, it could very well be your issue as well. Maybe she isn't comfortable with you, obviously she has some fetishes, there could be serious communication issues (from reading through it sounds like this is a big problem), etc... Masturbating at the expense of your partner though, regardless of the reason, is just not acceptable IMO.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> When someone here suspects their partner is cheating, spying on them is usually the first suggestion.


Usually the suggestion is VAR not full scale nanny cams throughout the house. I mean, do the kids know that Dad is spying on them? What about their sense of security and privacy? 

And he said in the very first OP that:



> Now let me be clear about something else. MY WIFE IS NOT CHEATING ON ME. She is not tech savvy enough to cover her tracks. Ive checked and I know her too well. So that's good.


He never suspected her of cheating. So trying to explain it that way isn't on point. 

Fact is if a wife installed cameras in the house trying to catch and control her husband's masturbation it would be a different conversation. 

As for why she reacts the way she does, who knows. Maybe she was one of those women who is taught as is touted by enough men here on TAM that "good girls save it for hubby" that her need or desire to masturbate is dirty. That she has a weird kink/fetish makes it worse. 

If he wants to get to the bottom of the issue, and there's going to be open communication, he's going to have to admit about the cameras. I'm not sure he's willing to do that.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

alexm said:


> Communication (as usual... sigh) would likely solve this. We shouldn't be afraid of talking to our partners about anything. This is just as much his fault as it is hers. Just freakin' talk, already.


Yes and no. What do you mean by "solve"? Lead to a mutually satisfying sex life and both of them free to masturbate when they feel the need? I do not think THAT outcome is likely no matter how much or skillfully or openly they talk.

I think communication IS likely to "resolve" the situation if you mean realize they are a bad fit, divorce, and each find a more compatible partner.

Just because lack of communication is preventing any solution does NOT imply that full communication will bring about the desired solution. Sometime being afraid of talking to our partners about something is quite justified, at least if you prefer to remain married despite not being able to resolve a dispute over one issue or another. Sometimes the only way to stay married is to ignore the elephant in the corner.

Not suggesting that it is always best to stay married. Open and honest communication is a good theoretical / aspirational goal. It is not always the best path to a particular outcome.


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## TriHouse (Aug 9, 2016)

I don't think this is about you nearly as much as you've convinced yourself it is about you. 

Is your wife a stay at home mom? Is she the primary caregiver of your 3 and 1 year old? When I had toddlers, I really didn't have the brain power for intimacy and I definitely got my fill of being touched during the day. It sounds like your wife is avoiding intimacy in the bedroom and taking care of the physical part herself for the stress relief, which is generally really unusual for a woman, except that this time in her life, with young children and it sounds like a generally emotionally satisfying relationship, that she just is tapped out on the intimacy scale right now. Trust me, that's a phase. She'll need you again when your children need her a little less, probably in just another year or two. 

Reading through your post though, I kept thinking, Dude, give her a break. Seriously, this isn't about you, so do not let your emotions tank every time she takes care of her own physical needs. If she's ditching you to do it, that's perhaps something you should bring up, but if she's on her period or doing it when you're not home, give her some space.


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## Purple*Orchid (Aug 7, 2016)

My question is How is you with holding sex going to change anything? She's already doing that and from what ive read she doesnt care about having a sex life with you. 

You need to find out WHY. Stop playing stupid childish games of who's with holding sex from who.


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## Purple*Orchid (Aug 7, 2016)

I totally agree with this.. Op has acted badly installing cameras so he can catch her in the act. It's not like she messing around with another guy.

Of course she isn't going to open up to him about her self loving habits given the way he's acted. I know I sure as hell wouldn't It would be the last thing I'd want to open up about with someone who's acted in this manner.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

There are no spy camera's you morons. You are just all too lazy to read the thread!


Seriously, you people are idiots who are here to prey on others to make yourself feel better about you. It's pathetic. There are no "Spy Camera's". I opened up about myself in an honest fashion about a situation and now low life's are just taking advantage of that. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Bit late to the party (if you call this a party lol) but the whole camera thing is freaky and honestly a little disturbing. I mean, I can understand why you would find your W masturbating hot, but seriously, how is this any better then setting up a hidden camera to spy on someone you don't know?
> 
> Now as for the other parts, which may have been addressed already (I skimmed through this thread). When the kids are asleep and you guys have alone time, the phones NEED to go away. This was a problem I was having with my W, she would bury her face in her phone, looking through FB, Pinterest, etc... It got to the point where I actually took the phone out of her hands and threw it (gently, I didn't want to have to buy her a new phone lol).
> 
> The next issue, if she is rejecting you and still masturbating that is a huge issue, IMO there is no other way around it. If she is expending her sexual energy alone which means she has less sexual energy for you, that is a problem. It doesn't necessarily mean this is just her issue, it could very well be your issue as well. Maybe she isn't comfortable with you, obviously she has some fetishes, there could be serious communication issues (from reading through it sounds like this is a big problem), etc... Masturbating at the expense of your partner though, regardless of the reason, is just not acceptable IMO.




You didn't read the thread but you commented. See yourself out.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

TriHouse said:


> I don't think this is about you nearly as much as you've convinced yourself it is about you.
> 
> Is your wife a stay at home mom? Is she the primary caregiver of your 3 and 1 year old? When I had toddlers, I really didn't have the brain power for intimacy and I definitely got my fill of being touched during the day. It sounds like your wife is avoiding intimacy in the bedroom and taking care of the physical part herself for the stress relief, which is generally really unusual for a woman, except that this time in her life, with young children and it sounds like a generally emotionally satisfying relationship, that she just is tapped out on the intimacy scale right now. Trust me, that's a phase. She'll need you again when your children need her a little less, probably in just another year or two.
> 
> Reading through your post though, I kept thinking, Dude, give her a break. Seriously, this isn't about you, so do not let your emotions tank every time she takes care of her own physical needs. If she's ditching you to do it, that's perhaps something you should bring up, but if she's on her period or doing it when you're not home, give her some space.



You didn't read or comprehend the thread either. Lazy.


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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

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## PersonInSpace (May 19, 2016)

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