# Why did I let it get this far?



## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Please grab a coffee as this is long, going back 7 years. Then feel free to comment / advise / laugh /poke a stick at me / ask questions.

Background

Married in 1998 after 2 years together. She is an only child from a badly broken marriage (mother detested father, even 20 years after divorcing). 7 year age gap between us. Her first really serious relationship but I had my heart sliced and diced before and I was very wary. 13 months after our wedding, our beautiful daughter was born. Things changed at that point and the physical side of the relationship diminished which I believed that may just have been a normal reaction. We had our ups and downs through the years, with periods of arguments with both sides of the family. Both sides of the family have real issues!

2007

After multiple family vacations to the US, in late 2006 my wife decided she wanted us to try to move to the US to live (I had lived in the US for school when I was 20). She found a school (she is a teacher) and the process to emigrate began. We got approved in May 2007 and flew out in July 2007. Before we left though we both had separate trips one day apart to see shows in England. She was a member of a fan forum for this particular illusionist and was meeting fellow members at the show. I was at a rock concert with a good friend of mine. Both trips were overnight, one day apart. After we got back we packed our lives into 9 suitcases and despite a huge medical hurdle with our daughter we moved to the US. We settled in, our house in the UK sold much higher than expected and the exchange rate was a good as we could have possibly imagined. We bought a beautiful home, minutes from the prep school she would be working in. Things were tough for the first 6 – 8 months but we got through it. She settled into work and I began working as well. Her family visited at Christmas and we travelled back in summer 2008. Our general relationship seemed to be OK but the physical side was very sparse, perhaps monthly. 

2009

The company I worked for went bankrupt in early 2009, but I found work at the end of the year. Relationship was tough as I am not the best home person (cleaning, cooking etc) and that did not help in the relationship while I was home.

2010

From arriving in 2007 we had started to create some friends. I had a friend due to my hometown sports team and we would meet weekly. He was going through a relationship breakdown and we would meet up with him and his young son with our family quite regularly beginning late 2009. As I was working an hours drive away from our home, my wife, daughter and he and his son would meet up at parks to play without me. Something should have clicked here, but it didn’t as I didn’t think he would start something behind my back. Anyway in May 2010 I got a cell bill with a large overage and huge amounts of texts. I checked the bill and found huge amounts of calls / texts from her to him but I made light of it. She then grabbed me one day saying one of her friends who had visited had hacked her facebook account. As I am technically minded I started looking at email logs and I found huge amounts of Facebook messages going back and forth (with email notifications) late at night between my wife and my ‘friend’. I am not a night person so she would sit for hours chatting with him. I finally got up the courage and confronted her (not my nature). She told me yes she had been having an EA with him but there had been nothing physical. She said she loved me but more as a really close friend, and not in a physical way and had not done so for many years, even pre-dating emigrating. She had hoped the move would re-spark our relationship but it hadn’t happened. I got her to agree to counseling and we attended and the counselor was very good. Times were tough but she agreed to end all contact with the OM. She even showed me the Facebook message that she sent to him as she hit send. She didn’t know that I knew she sent a message just before saying to ignore the next message (the one she showed me) and to wait a few months until she was free. Anyway she did end it with him, but only after going to meet him in person. She went to the doctor and was prescribed anti-depressants as she was struggling. We continued to work on our relationship and it did improve and we began the process to get our Green Cards to allow us to remain in the US. We took a wonderful trip home to the UK returning via San Francisco and Yosemite/Las Vegas and by the end of 2010 we had our Green Cards. Things were looking up and we did continue with counseling (physical side was still very sporadic). I organized a short Bahamas cruise for Feb 2011 and on the day we were leaving I picked up her phone and there was an email from one the males from her fan forum friend, someone who she met during the meet up in 2007. She immediately confessed that she loved him (he was 4,000 miles away in England) and that despite trying she still did not love me. We took the cruise but it was very tense (I know, I know). She flirted with others on the cruise but I was so upset I did not care. When we got home she announced she was leaving and both my daughter and myself were distraught. She stayed with a friend for a month and went to the counselor (as did I). We tried meeting up at the counselor’s suggestion as date nights and some went well, some didn’t. Anyway she kind of outstayed her welcome at her friends and arranged to move to a long stay hotel until she could find somewhere permanent. During this time our daughter was on a school trip. Within 24 hours of being in the long stay she called me saying she was sorry and really wanted to come home. She assured me there was nothing really in the EA with the OM2. The emails I saw didn’t seem to indicate that but she assured me he had a girlfriend and they were living together. Well I took her back, much to the annoyance of my daughter. There were tensions between my daughter and wife and it ended with my daughter basically giving up for the last few weeks of 6th grade. Tension has been high between them ever since, despite some wonderful family vacations. 

2012 - present

In late 2012, my MIL was diagnosed with a particularly nasty throat cancer. She initially refused the surgery but after my wife and daughter visited for Christmas 2012, she had the surgery. Just prior to the trip she also began communications with her father after many years of not talking after I discovered him on Facebook. Our relationship continued as before, friendly but very rarely physical. I was working more and more, travelling as well as I got promoted in my job. My wife and daughter travelled back to the UK in Mid 2012 while I stayed back in the US working. I got a bit fed up of working so hard that I decided we would all spend Christmas together back in the UK. As a present my wife arranged for my daughter and myself to go to London on Dec 26th to see Les Miserables. She however had arranged to go and see a play with one of her favorite actors with her mother, also in England but not London on the same day but she would drive while we flew. Now she wasn’t sure if her mother would travel because of the visual scarring after her surgery and her health wasn’t (isn’t) great anyway. Anyway she dropped us at the airport and was supposed to head to her mothers to pick her up. Well when I called to see how things had gone she told me she had called her mother and that her mother wasn’t saying no but wasn’t quite ready so she decided to lie to her mother and tell her she had arranged to take her friend instead as she knew she wasn’t really up to it. Anyway we saw our respective shows and stayed overnight before travelling back on Dec 27th. I called as she was leaving the hotel and as she answered I could hear her at the end of a conversation with someone. I asked her and she just said it was just someone she was passing. During our trip we met with her father a few times and things were improving between him and my wife and daughter. Anyway we came back to the US after that trip and things physically had become even more sporadic. I was becoming very stressed at work after a promotion but a change in our leadership. I had began thinking of quitting in May / June 2013 but the pressure was ever increasing so I was not the easiest person to be around. Our daughter was also exhibiting some disturbing signs and eventually we found a family counselor who began working with her. The relationship between mother and daughter that broke down after my wife left in 2011 had never really healed and had in fact become worse. Eventually my daughter was diagnosed with depression and began meds as well as continuing counseling. However in early March my wife received a call from a family member saying her father had collapsed at work and was intensive care. After consulting with the medical team she decided she would travel back, and our daughter decided she would also go, removing herself from a prestigious show she had been in. My wife said there was no point me spending a large amount of money to travel as well. They went for 2 weeks during which time the medical team couldn’t revive him and in the end they had to end the intervention and he passed away. They stayed for a few days more but had to return before the funeral. Obviously since they returned at the end of March they have been very down but I had also handed in my notice at work (prior to his collapse) so I finished while they were gone. Anyway I have been at home while I am working on finding a new career and yesterday I picked up my wife’s laptop to check something on iTunes and her Gmail account popped up, with you guessed it, an email from the guy 4,000 miles away again. There was a history of emails going back to November 2013 and the emails continued during our Christmas trip to the UK and even during her trip to see her father before he passed. I saw mention of a special Christmas present, and although I cannot prove it, I believe she met him while my daughter and I were in London and she was at the other show. Well I confronted her (in her workplace after everyone was gone). Actually as I entered the classroom she was taking to him on Skype. She knew immediately that I had discovered it again. She told me she had given it 3 years like the counselor told her had said it possibly may take back in 2011 and that she still loved me, but not in a physical sense (back to that again) and that it wasn’t fair to continue. She immediately said she would find a place to live. I told her that was fine, but she needed to be out within a few hours. I did not want this dragging on. It was going to be hard enough for my daughter who was already depressed and struggling at school to have this added but I really couldn’t see any other possibility. I don’t think she really liked this but she left last night and I personally believe the relationship has ended this time. 

Now a final piece of the jigsaw. I believe my wife struggles with depression. She is the kind of person who panics if everything is going well. She seems to be more ‘happy’ when she has something to worry about. She does drink quite a lot, certainly in comparison to me. She will easily drink a bottle of wine a night or 4 or 5 beers and her mother is an alcoholic (but will not admit it). She also struggles with people who have more than her which is a real problem in the private school where she works with money dripping all around. She also has thing for writing fan fiction based on existing shows (mostly of a more erotic nature). Her reasoning for falling out of love is that I am her only boyfriend and that she never "lived" life before we were married. Incidentally she proposed to me!

Question is: Where should I go from here? All comments, suggestions, questions welcomed! I have tried to be as thorough as possible but if there are any pertinent points I have missed I will gladly elaborate.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

N211SP said:


> Question is: Where should I go from here?


Answer is : Attorney for divorce.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

All I can say is sorry you are here and going through this. Teaching seems to be a profession that is plagued with infidelity, even though we seem to hold these "teachers" as the moral and ethical role models for our youth (maybe this is why everything in modern society is breaking down at an alarming rate). 

It sounds like you are doing the best thing trying to protect your daughter and do what is bets for her. Are you sure she is yours biologically? She will always be yours emotionally and if you don't care to find out the other that is perfectly acceptable to (just something to keep in mind in case something medical appears in the future).

It also sounds as though you, like me, have been duped all along and were used essentially for a wallet only. My WW used the same (I am the only BF she had crap) but she knows it is a lie and has a laundry list of formers. It amazes me that with all the time they have to dedicate to the profession that they could find the time to cheat and still be home on time every night, but mine found a way as well.

Keep strong, lawyer up, and get care for you and your daughter. Good luck.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks both.

Yes I am absolutely sure that daughter is mine. Actually I do know that I was the first real boyfriend. After that I cannot be so sure.

Do I get the attorney immediately and start proceedings or best to have a cool off couple of days?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Your wife is not into you. I would cut my losses and divorce. You and your daughter are in pain and your wife is not happy. 

I think being apart might give everyone involved a shot at happiness.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I would at least start to talk to attorneys and get an initial consult out of the way. This way you can get questions answered about securing finances, the house, and bettering your custody stance. All of these things can very greatly depending on the state you reside in and how it handles property and issues of infidelity (as like 6-7 states still allow fault and this can make a major difference in Alimony, child support, etc).

I would suggest at least talking with a lawyer to make sure you aren't doing things to hurt your case within your state. Also since she is money driven as you say, then I would start by securing your finances and makes sure that the Credit cards don't get run up and the bank account run down. Might want to take half the money and put into an account for just you to insure she doesn't get spiteful or get a lawyer that is and they start cleaning house on you and close the credit card accounts. Just options to think about and bring up to a lawyer. Get into counseling for you and the daughter if you can.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

It sounds like you have had a one way open marriage for years. I’m sure your wife enjoys it but do you? 

Being depressed doesn’t give your wife a blank check to do anything she wants to. Decide what is best for YOU and do it.

If you were my son my advice would be: "Run Forrest Run"


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks all. We pretty much kept financial items separate. She had an associate credit card of mine (that I have shut down) and I have one of hers. Other than that everything is in our own names (bank accounts, etc).

I have contacted a local attorney to begin the consultation process. 

My daughter is already in counseling for her depression. She is actually going tonight so that will be an added little extra to bring into the discussion.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

N211SP said:


> Thanks both.
> 
> Yes I am absolutely sure that daughter is mine. Actually I do know that I was the first real boyfriend. After that I cannot be so sure.
> 
> Do I get the attorney immediately and start proceedings or best to have a cool off couple of days?


Your wife has been showing you who she is for years. You don't need to cool off, because you're apt to make another bad decision.

She is a serial cheater, and you have enabled her behavior due to her lack of consequences. After the second time you caught her, you should have called it quits then.

Divorce her as soon as you can and don't look back. Learn from your mistakes, so that you won't make them again in your next relationship.

Sorry you're here and good luck to you.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

you are and always will be her plan b...a homebase...somewhere comfy to go back to until she finds her plan a...

stop supporting her, divorce her and dont look back...enough is enough already


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## Jambri (Mar 19, 2013)

I can't believe you went as long as you did without filing for divorce. What a nightmare! Don't waste another moment of your time on this woman.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Jambri said:


> I can't believe you went as long as you did without filing for divorce. What a nightmare! Don't waste another moment of your time on this woman.


 I am not surprised at all. When kids are involved, major life changes happen, and the signs are not directly there (i mean how could they be cheating when they leave every morning at 7am and are home everyday by 4pm and never anything out of the routine varies. Shopping is done together as are all other activities and times spent together on the weekends. Times apart are few and short, with no real friends in the area so why would one suspect, especially when family history may not support infidelity either?).

When the trust is there, rarely does one suspect a thing and no one suspects if their life growing up was pretty much the same rut their in now, it looks like that is married life to them. Whom really suspects then??


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## Jambri (Mar 19, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I am not surprised at all. When kids are involved, major life changes happen, and the signs are not directly there (i mean how could they be cheating when they leave every morning at 7am and are home everyday by 4pm and never anything out of the routine varies. Shopping is done together as are all other activities and times spent together on the weekends. Times apart are few and short, with no real friends in the area so why would one suspect, especially when family history may not support infidelity either?).
> 
> When the trust is there, rarely does one suspect a thing and no one suspects if their life growing up was pretty much the same rut their in now, it looks like that is married life to them. Whom really suspects then??


It's not so much the prospects of her cheating but spending large chunks of your time messaging other men while not being physical with your husband and in fact stating that she didn't love him in a physical way would be enough to send many men on their way. What guy wants to know he's viewed as a good roommate?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> When the trust is there, rarely does one suspect a thing


I'm sure you must be speaking to your owns circumstances Squeakr; because there's no way in hell he had any reason to trust her after he caught her the first time.

After that, it's "shame on me".


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

badmemory said:


> I'm sure you must be speaking to your owns circumstances Squeakr; because there's no way in hell he had any reason to trust her after he caught her the first time.
> 
> After that, it's "shame on me".


I was speaking to how one can get away with everything up to the first time being caught. I agree that after that the trust is gone, and may never be able to be rebuilt again.

In a way yes it speaks to my history as well, as lots of the details are the same for me as for the OP (except the WW and I are both American born and naturalized), and I was just saying how one can miss the signs initially and it get so bad. The difference is I have only been fooled once so far that I know of and not sure that I am wanting to even give the option for a second chance (so in that respect agree with your sentiments).


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Sitting reading your replies I can see how much I messed up. I really did not want to drag my daughter through this as she has had to deal with a whole lot when moving country, new schools, etc, but in the end I have sacrificed my own happiness. Fortunately my daughter is being very supportive, despite her own struggles. Just want to get on with the legal stuff and get it done and move on.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Please go back to your first post and insert a few more paragraphs

Your relationship has poor to no positive prospects. You should have addressed the lack of intimacy issue earlier and more forcefully. Obviously her lack of desire for you has caused great pain. Do you now fear that you will reproach yourself for not seeking divorce earlier?

I suggest you see the glass as half full. You are going to get out, heal and find someone new.

Your wife's fan fiction interest is indicative of an unfulfilled desire for romantic adventure. You may not have had a real chance at a good marriage because has been secretly nurturing this desire.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

I could wallow and say I should have done it after the first time, but it isn't going to change the here and now. In fact if the divorce had happened then we definitely would not be still living in the US. We would have sold up and taken a huge hit financially moving back to the UK. Moving country without any family support or backup is really a test of a marriage, although I know lots of people move huge distances within the US.

I am not even contemplating the finding someone new. I just want to get things settled and give my daughter the best environment to succeed.


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## ducrider (Sep 24, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

N211SP said:


> I could wallow and say I should have done it after the first time, but it isn't going to change the here and now. In fact if the divorce had happened then we definitely would not be still living in the US. We would have sold up and taken a huge hit financially moving back to the UK. Moving country without any family support or backup is really a test of a marriage, although I know lots of people move huge distances within the US.
> 
> I am not even contemplating the finding someone new. I just want to get things settled and give my daughter the best environment to succeed.



You need to move fast with the D. papers....
Your daughter needs to see a strong father that makes strong decisions for her well being. She needs a parent to respect and you are the only one who can do it. She already has isues with her Mother, so she needs to see that at least her Father is someone that she can count on watching your actions. 
Also she knows how weak you have been and her future behavior and responsabilities will depend on how you show her what needs to be done.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Any advice on the divorce proceedings in Florida?

Also, our daughter has been messaging her mother asking her all sorts of awkward questions. Should I ask her to back off or let her ask? How much detail do you tell your 15 year old?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You say your sex life was sporadic, why? Was this mutual, did she refuse sex with you?
What kind of physical shape are you both in?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your daughter is plenty old enough to hear what is going on.

if you divorce in Fla you may not be able to leave with your daughter. 

Do you plan on staying in Fla?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Some have said Fla is a bad place for fathers to divorce in.

Check out dadsdivorce.com


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> You say your sex life was sporadic, why? Was this mutual, did she refuse sex with you?
> What kind of physical shape are you both in?


We are not gym bunnies but in general we are in OK physical shape. Sex life was sporadic mostly due to her dark moods.



Chaparral said:


> Your daughter is plenty old enough to hear what is going on.
> 
> if you divorce in Fla you may not be able to leave with your daughter.
> 
> Do you plan on staying in Fla?


I discussed this with my daughter. She wants to finish high school in the US so another 3 years.



Chaparral said:


> Some have said Fla is a bad place for fathers to divorce in.
> 
> Check out dadsdivorce.com


Thanks for the link. I will take a look.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> All I can say is sorry you are here and going through this. Teaching seems to be a profession that is plagued with infidelity, even though we seem to hold these "teachers" as the moral and ethical role models for our youth (maybe this is why everything in modern society is breaking down at an alarming rate).


I wasn't going to respond, but I can't let this go. Bullsh-t!! The reason for modern society breaking down has absolutely nothing to do with the teaching profession. Not one bit. I hate that so many people blame teachers for every little thing. Yes , I'm a teacher. No, my affair had absolutely ZERO to do with my profession and had to do with my own terrible decisions. My affair never once in any way impacted my ability to teach nor did it effect my professional ethics.

Want to blame someone for the breakdown of society, then blame the apathetic parents or even the total and utter uselessness that they show their children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here...

Divorce Information for Men and Fathers | DadsDivorce.com


Robert Glover, No More Mr Nice Guy

And read the books in Chaparral's signature too.

Sorry your here. Take this time to reflect on the mistakes of the past and create a better future.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> I wasn't going to respond, but I can't let this go. Bullsh-t!! The reason for modern society breaking down has absolutely nothing to do with the teaching profession. Not one bit. I hate that so many people blame teachers for every little thing. Yes , I'm a teacher. No, my affair had absolutely ZERO to do with my profession and had to do with my own terrible decisions. My affair never once in any way impacted my ability to teach nor did it effect my professional ethics.
> 
> Want to blame someone for the breakdown of society, then blame the apathetic parents or even the total and utter uselessness that they show their children.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Society is going down because of the "progressive" ideology. Schools, in my chidren's case was a big proponent of this. College is totally amoral now.

Btw, teachers and medical professionals are at the top of the infidelity food chain. Any thoughts on why?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

DONT FILE YET. Isnt FL going from perm alimony to temporary this summer? FIND OUT!
reference flyfishdoc thread.

2010

>Anyway she did end it with him, but only after going to meet him in person.<

You skipped over this fast. Expand. Sex you assume?

2011

>She flirted with others on the cruise but I was so upset I did not care. <

Define flirting.

When we got home she announced she was leaving and both my daughter and myself were distraught.

dating men here?

>Well I took her back, much to the annoyance of my daughter. There were tensions between my daughter and wife and it ended with my daughter basically giving up for the last few weeks of 6th grade. Tension has been high between them ever since, despite some wonderful family vacations. <

See poster whyeme. Thread "Is there any point." HORRID beginning. Awe inspiring awesome EPIC WIN end. He has daug with similar issues. BTW he is also a Brit.

>Just prior to the trip she also began communications with her father after many years of not talking after I discovered him on Facebook.<

Oh wonderful. More daddy issues.

>I called as she was leaving the hotel and as she answered I could hear her at the end of a conversation with someone. I asked her and she just said it was just someone she was passing.<

Was she in her room?

>Anyway I have been at home while I am working on finding a new career and yesterday I picked up my wife’s laptop to check something on iTunes and her Gmail account popped up, with you guessed it, an email from the guy 4,000 miles away again. There was a history of emails going back to November 2013 and the emails continued during our Christmas trip to the UK and even during her trip to see her father before he passed. I saw mention of a special Christmas present, and although I cannot prove it, I believe she met him while my daughter and I were in London and she was at the other show.<

Sex you assume?

>She knew immediately that I had discovered it again. She told me she had given it 3 years like the counselor told her had said it possibly may take back in 2011 and that she still loved me, but not in a physical sense (back to that again)<

ILYBNILWY speech well known here

1) See my warning about perm alimony ending in FL. If a factor, fake it till ya make it. This is HIGH stakes poker.
2) See my warning about perm alimony ending in FL. If a factor, fake it till ya make it. This is HIGH stakes poker.
3) See my warning about perm alimony ending in FL. If a factor, fake it till ya make it. This is HIGH stakes poker.
4) See my warning about perm alimony ending in FL. If a factor, fake it till ya make it. This is HIGH stakes poker.

Honestly daddy issues+depression = most likely hopeless.

Approx age?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Chap true that.

Nurses, teachers, bar personnel, SAHM, traveling anyone of both sexes = ?half? the cases here.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Sorry, I'm not biting and certainly not buying what you're selling today.

You post silliness saying progressive ideology is why society is going down. How so? Show me a case study of such. I mean isn't progress itself advancement? Your argument makes no sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Regret214 said:


> I wasn't going to respond, but I can't let this go. Bullsh-t!! The reason for modern society breaking down has absolutely nothing to do with the teaching profession. Not one bit. I hate that so many people blame teachers for every little thing. Yes , I'm a teacher. No, my affair had absolutely ZERO to do with my profession and had to do with my own terrible decisions. My affair never once in any way impacted my ability to teach nor did it effect my professional ethics.
> 
> Want to blame someone for the breakdown of society, then blame the apathetic parents or even the total and utter uselessness that they show their children.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree that the system not holding the parents responsible either is definitely a major cause as is the system itself. I also just can't help but wonder why teaching is one of the top professions that has numerous instances of infidelity these days and is climbing?

We hold the teachers to the highest of regards expecting them to be baby-sitters, imparters of knowledge, and morality and ethics coaches yet generally expect nothing of the parents. The red tape to navigate is huge with little rewards.

Sorry you took offense, but our kids learn by what they see, hear, and experience. My WW is also a teacher, and in lots of the issues on TAM, teachers/ professors are the WS/OW/OM. Tell me it is just a coincidence.

I also doubt that your A didn't affect your job. As affect everything in a person's life, their interaction with their families, spouses, careers, and everyone in general. The WS will disagree, but when you are not focusing on your task at hand and waiting for the next text, email, or interaction with the AP, you are not focusing on the task truly at hand. I know my WW says she never let her responsibility skirt, but her lesson plans became less and less directed, the time spent prepping for class less, and she was staying up all hours of the night interacting with her AP, so during the day she was tired and less enthusiastic, motivated, and energetic to teach than her position required. 

She would even find ways to sneak peeks at her phone during the day to get that A high and fix she needing, which means less time focusing on the teaching of the kids. She would even find time to stay in her room and get assistants to take the class while she would take a call from the AP and she is not the only teacher that was doing this in her school, she knew of several doing this (and it was worse with those having As with other staff members).

She never noticed it until I caught her and called her out on this. Funny how she was always able to stay up until 1, 2, even 4 in the morning, as planning took hours according to her and I saw her reviews was never acceptable either, yet back up at 6 and ready for work. Now that she is no longer cheating, she needs to be in bed by 9 every night and is always tired even with the extra sleep. Our kids and her classroom kids all saw the effects and commented about it, so don't think that As aren't noticed nor affect one's job and professionalism. 

Once again sorry you are offended by this, but young kids are impressionable and sponges that take in and soak up "everything" even that which we think we are NOT doing yet is there. They pick up on it.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Ack I bit too. Lets take this debate out of this thread. This is about OP.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

when you consider how many teachers and medical professionals there are compared to the number of hairdressers, mechanics, bankers, etc, it's statistically no big surprise.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Ack I bit too. Lets take this debate out of this thread. This is about OP.


Well, let's make it perfectly clear that *I * was not the one who baited.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

By the way, as one final thought: Professionals with the highest ratio of affairs??

American Republican CongressMEN. Both hetero AND homosexual affairs at that.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> DONT FILE YET. Isnt FL going from perm alimony to temporary this summer? FIND OUT!
> reference flyfishdoc thread.
> 
> 2010
> ...


I know that I made a mistake in not copying the emails (despite Florida being a no fault state. It is a Gmail account is there any way to get at them?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Regret, Stop. There was no need for that last post. Now you're lashing out and generalizing more than him. Turn off the screen and come back later with cooler mindset.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Actually I saw emails about this very subject. She had instructed her assistant to take her kids out to the playground so that she could stay in the classroom and have a call with him.



Squeakr said:


> I
> 
> She would even find ways to sneak peeks at her phone during the day to get that A high and fix she needing, which means less time focusing on the teaching of the kids. She would even find time to stay in her room and get assistants to take the class while she would take a call from the AP and she is not the only teacher that was doing this in her school, she knew of several doing this (and it was worse with those having As with other staff members).


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

N211SP said:


> Actually I saw emails about this very subject. She had instructed her assistant to take her kids out to the playground so that she could stay in the classroom and have a call with him.


Yes, happened with my WW as well and I recovered those emails also. She wasn't supposed to carry her phone with her while teaching, yet she would when she was outside as a "safety precaution" she told me so she could contact the office if a child got hurt and it made sense to me (but the phone bill and email accounts revealed the true reason there as well why she was carrying that phone). Even had it in her after school meetings. For me she was never available in them, but the phone bill and email records reveal otherwise there also. She told me "they all did it, so no one really said anything." Great mob mentality makes it right. Sheesh. I have known 5 other teachers in her close knit group that have all told me the same thing. So not trying to generalize (even though it sounds that way), just summarizing my personal experiences.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Do your diligence on the FL ending perm alimony thing. I MEAN IT!

READ WHYEME THREAD and once D and HEALED, picture yourself there. Mentally feel that new woman with her pvssy so wet cause she is TOTALLY INTO YOU and loving your touch! Its that first sex after the first I-love-you's. Then MAKE IT HAPPEN. You are at prime age to have a second GREAT chapter in your life.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks I will certainly read up and ask the attorney as well. BTW I thought you were asking the age of my wife. Add 7 for me!



weightlifter said:


> Do your diligence on the FL ending perm alimony thing. I MEAN IT!
> 
> READ WHYEME THREAD and once D and HEALED, picture yourself there. Mentally feel that new woman with her pvssy so wet cause she is TOTALLY INTO YOU and loving your touch! Its that first sex after the first I-love-you's. Then MAKE IT HAPPEN. You are at prime age to have a second GREAT chapter in your life.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Your wife's fan fiction interest is indicative of an unfulfilled desire for romantic adventure. You may not have had a real chance at a good marriage because has been secretly nurturing this desire.


You know this made me think. Before I start this I am only mentioning it not looking for a reconciliation.

She was pretty messed up emotionally when we first met (she was 19). Her Dad had left and parents had divorced. They saw each other for the first while but then the mother got involved and told him to stay away which he did for almost 4 years. She used to tell me of how bad it was at home when they were together but one of her favorite TV shows to watch was Hart to Hart. The ultimate romantic adventure. Strong man, strong woman, rich, loving each other and putting bad people in jail.

Sounds weird but putting some of the little facts she recalls from back then may be some insight into the underlying thought process in her head.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

It's funny how when we look back, everything seems to be a key or clue into the future behavior. I sometimes wonder if as the BS we tend to rewrite history like the WS to make it fit our current needs for answers we may never get nor may never be there??


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Ok, this sucks. She cheated, that will always be on her. 

You my friend, you need fixing too. There's always 2 dysfunctional people in a marriage. She's the very definition of an alcoholic. She's depressed, daddy issues. On and on. 

But you, 99% your a nice guy. You married a project girl (you had dated a lot, you were her one and only). You try to run away to the US because she wanted a change of scenery. You tried to nice the marriage back into shape. Nice, nice nice! That's bad, very bad. 

Cheaters lie. Assume everything she says is worse. "I didn't sleep with him" means they had sex. "It was only one time" means it was constant. "It wasn't that good" means it was rocking. Judge her by her actions not her words. 

Read No More Mr Nice Guy. You probably won't save this marriage. (Honestly who'd want to?). Implement the 180. Go no contact to your wife. Even if she's in the same room with you, pretend she doesn't exist. Tell her "I am only plan A. If you want to live the single life get out." And mean it. 

Fix yourself. These nice guy behaviors will doom you to repeat the past. 


Oh and to the poster citing congress as an example of cheaters. The very fact you used them as a sample population tells me you have no understanding of statistics. Tool. Go play the lottery you deserve it.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks all. Heading to see if I can get a consult with the attorney.

Some positive news. I broke below my resistance weight level today. Only another 10lbs till I get to my optimum weight for age / height.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Do your diligence on the FL ending perm alimony thing. I MEAN IT!


The bill to change the perm alimony was dropped in the 2014 legislative session so 2015 is the earliest. Cannot wait that long.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

N211SP said:


> The bill to change the perm alimony was dropped in the 2014 legislative session so 2015 is the earliest. Cannot wait that long.


Regardless of what certain groups try and claim, you are about to enter an arena that thrives on the life blood of men. Do your own homework on marriage/divorce laws in your area.

Then find an attorney so nasty that he/she doesn't have to open doors, but oozes under them.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Ripper said:


> Regardless of what certain groups try and claim, you are about to enter an arena that thrives on the life blood of men. Do your own homework on marriage/divorce laws in your area.
> 
> Then find an attorney so nasty that he/she doesn't have to open doors, but oozes under them.


Thanks. I mean no disrespect but I have set up a consult with a female attorney as they tend to be the most vicious. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong and I can set up another consult.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

N211SP said:


> The bill to change the perm alimony was dropped in the 2014 legislative session so 2015 is the earliest. Cannot wait that long.


What the spread between ya'lls income? In Florida, permanent alimony is more likely to be awarded is the marriage has endured 17 or more years. And there are multiple other factors that are considered before its awarded at all. Alimony is also deductible above line, and reportable by the recipient, for federal tax purposes. Before you agree to any award, consult with a competent tax professional. 
And remember some say, "The bad news is if I divorce her, she will be out of my life." I say, "The good news is if you divorce her she will be out of your life."


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

At the moment I have zero income and she has around $44k



ThePheonix said:


> What the spread between ya'lls income? In Florida, permanent alimony is more likely to be awarded is the marriage has endured 17 or more years. And there are multiple other factors that are considered before its awarded at all. Alimony is also deductible above line, and reportable by the recipient, for federal tax purposes. Before you agree to any award, consult with a competent tax professional.
> And remember some say, "The bad news is if I divorce her, she will be out of my life." I say, "The good news is if you divorce her she will be out of your life."


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Is your concern that you will have to pay alimony?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Nurses, teachers, bar personnel, SAHM, traveling anyone of both sexes = ?half? the cases here."

And most of the other half are office personnel or management in the corporate world or sales.

So why doesn't anyone blame the business/corporate mantra of short term advantage at any cost (you know, the mentality that blew up the housing and banking systems) for creating a social climate that reinforces instant gratification and a 'take any action that benefits you, to hell with everyone else' mantra?

Nope...I guess it must all be the teachers' and nurses' fault that ethics are deteriorating.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Let us stop the threadjack...

Also, she is 45 now ?


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Is your concern that you will have to pay alimony?


I guess it is a possibility. However I just got a call offering work which should allow me to work from home and let me look after my daughter. 



warlock07 said:


> Let us stop the threadjack...
> 
> Also, she is 45 now ?


No but to clarify. WW is 38 (soon) and I am 45 (even sooner!). I thought the original question was how old WW is, not me. :scratchhead:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

N211SP said:


> Thanks both.
> 
> Yes I am absolutely sure that daughter is mine. Actually I do know that I was the first real boyfriend. After that I cannot be so sure.
> 
> Do I get the attorney immediately and start proceedings or best to have a cool off couple of days?


Could you and your daughter look at moving back to the UK?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

badmemory said:


> I'm sure you must be speaking to your owns circumstances Squeakr; because there's no way in hell he had any reason to trust her after he caught her the first time.
> 
> After that, it's "shame on me".


I think I have to disagree with you there, badmemory. To my thinking it is always shame on the cheater. Always.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

N211SP said:


> I guess it is a possibility. However I just got a call offering work which should allow me to work from home and let me look after my daughter.


I thought alimony was an issue. Am I wrong and has your attorney rendered any guidance?


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Could you and your daughter look at moving back to the UK?


That is a possibility. However my daughter would like to finish high school in the US. If she returned to the UK should would effectively be jumping into the final year of high school and that would probably be a stretch given the differences in the education systems. One other issue, albeit minor in the grand scheme of things, is that we can apply for US citizenship next year. That means regardless of what D15 wants to do in her future life she has the option of living and working in the US or anywhere in the European Union due to her dual nationality.



MattMatt said:


> I think I have to disagree with you there, badmemory. To my thinking it is always shame on the cheater. Always.


Whilst I totally agree that WW must take the majority of the shame, when I sat and wrote out the details going back I can see how many mistakes I made. I didn't listen to advice given and and after reading only some for WHYEME's thread I wish I had found this place back then. But I let my heart rule my head (which is VERY unusual for me) and I now find myself in this situation.



ThePheonix said:


> I thought alimony was an issue. Am I wrong and has your attorney rendered any guidance?


I have the consult set for Monday with the attorney. It really will depend on what legally the State require on certain items or whether an uncontested self agreement can be accepted. I do know a former work colleague divorced a couple of years ago and his D9 only goes to his WW every second weekend. Normally everything I see is custody split 50/50 at best for males.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There's at least one school in the UK that teaches the US High School syllabus TASIS The American School in England, London, UK. IB School: Our School


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks MattMatt. The school uses IB and D15 would definitely not cope with that. It is offered at the school WW works at and the workload is overwhelming (like 4 - 5 hours homework per night). The benefits are huge in terms of worldwide college recognition and scholarships but with the best will in the world D15 is not that type of student. It is also pretty expensive. 



MattMatt said:


> There's at least one school in the UK that teaches the US High School syllabus TASIS The American School in England, London, UK. IB School: Our School


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Finish Whyeme. One of the most epic come from behind smash victories for a BS... You can feel his initial agony coming through. By the end...

All I can say is picture it in your head and MAKE it happen.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Got a few things done yesterday and spent time with D15 getting some essential things done and going out to eat. WW came by to collect a few bags of clothes that she could not fit in her car on Tuesday. By agreement I left the bags on the front porch so she didn't need to enter the house but we were out anyway.

Obviously I haven't been sleeping that well (no great surprise) since D day (Tuesday), but I finally got a reasonable sleep last night. Problem is that I actually felt a little down this morning. After dropping D15 at school (this forces me to get out of bed) I have tried to keep busy. I have got a few things completed this morning and have a couple more I can get done this afternoon. Also had a text this morning from the colleague who was promoted into my position asking if she could persuade me to return. I do know why as my former boss called last night to tell me that the sh*t was about to hit the fan. Don't know what to feel about that. I wasn't happy there and was very stressed and D15 and WW had told me how unhappy I looked and to get out. The phrase that is swirling round my head is "never go back". I should have told myself that in 2010! I think the other options I am pursuing offer a much better balance and allow me to be around for D15 to help and support her with her depression.

Tonight D15 and I are going for a meal with my parents. This will be tough as we have been estranged for almost 2 years. D15 has continued to see and talk to them but I have had very little contact after a major disagreement with them. Basically they were offering the then D13 things without checking with us first and in fact completely contradicted what they had told me a couple of months previously. My father is a self made man and has been very successful, but with that has come an air of infallibility that has also spread to my mother. It is difficult to have a reasonable discussion with them as their way is always right. My mother even told D15 last week that she couldn't possibly be suffering from depression as she wasn't old enough! D15 has told them that WW has left so I don't have to break that to them. She also told another family friend (more WW's friend than mine) that we are getting a divorce and then said "well she had at least 3 affairs". I looked at her and she said well they should know the truth as her mother certainly wouldn't tell them.

Anyway WW wants to come to the house this weekend to clear out the last of her things. Any advice on how best to handle that? Contact has only been via email or messaging and only about transferring insurance, cell phone charges, etc.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

I should also mention that D15 has been getting IC and we were part of FC to assist overall. She went on Wednesday evening and told the counselor that WW had left. Counselor was shocked and said she had not seen any indications. Don't know if that reflects badly on her or how accustomed to the situation WW and myself had become.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Regret214 said:


> I wasn't going to respond, but I can't let this go. Bullsh-t!! The reason for modern society breaking down has absolutely nothing to do with the teaching profession. Not one bit. I hate that so many people blame teachers for every little thing. Yes , I'm a teacher. No, my affair had absolutely ZERO to do with my profession and had to do with my own terrible decisions. My affair never once in any way impacted my ability to teach nor did it effect my professional ethics.
> 
> Want to blame someone for the breakdown of society, then blame the apathetic parents or even the total and utter uselessness that they show their children.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really hate to thread jack but BS. Teachers are one of the biggest problems we are faced with in the US. My WW had an Affair with a high school teacher. He sent disgusting emails with pictures to my wife on the school email. traded text messages at least a 100 a day with my wife during school hours. I exposed the A to his family and mine and he kept reaching out to her, no shame.

I exposed to the school sharing with the District Super and the School Principal, the emails and text message records. Anyone else would have been fired from their job. Nope he still is employed and a coach for the girls volleyball team. He should have been fired. He really was not focused for a whole school year. Oh and he had my wife hang with him a practices.

Yes Parents are an issue but teachers should be held to high standards and they are not


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

N211SP said:


> I should also mention that D15 has been getting IC and we were part of FC to assist overall. She went on Wednesday evening and told the counselor that WW had left. Counselor was shocked and said she had not seen any indications. Don't know if that reflects badly on her or how accustomed to the situation WW and myself had become.


I think a 15 year old should be able to ask anything they want and get straight answers. Good for you with the IC, please keep it up. She can learn a lot about how she should live her life from how you handle things. Show her what a strong confident and a caring man should look like.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

I am still reading away. Think I am close to half way through.



weightlifter said:


> Finish Whyeme. One of the most epic come from behind smash victories for a BS... You can feel his initial agony coming through. By the end...
> 
> All I can say is picture it in your head and MAKE it happen.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Just finished reading Whyeme's story. Really uplifting. So many similar things. I do feel that the tension between STBXW and D15 has certainly contributed hugely to her current depression and problems at school and in the few days since she left D15 seems a little calmer. Like Whyeme I would come home from work into what was basically a battleground and it was horrible. It all started after STBXW left in 2011 for a month and then came back and has been like that ever since.

As I mentioned before D15 has been asking all sorts of awkward questions. I do know that STBXW does not admit that it was an EA, just that they were emailing each other, but D15 keeps calling her out. D15 has said though that no matter what after not seeing her grandfather for close to 10 years and then having to watch him pass away that she will not shut off STBXW as she doesn't want that situation to happen again. However she has been clear that she wishes to stay with me but if STBXW does not move away then she will spend time with her, including overnights. 

Anyway STBXW asked to meet me today for 5 minutes to tell me something. I wanted a neutral (public) location so arranged to meet at a Starbucks. However the messages were not getting delivered so I had to leave to pick up D15 from school and we didn't meet. When D15 got in the car she told me STBXW has arranged to take her to dinner tomorrow night. Both D15 and I think that she has decided she is going to tell us she is going back to the UK. She had talked about going back for a year to spend time with her mother who has been ill for over a year.

Anyway I will update when I find out.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

mahike said:


> I really hate to thread jack but BS. Teachers are one of the biggest problems we are faced with in the US. My WW had an Affair with a high school teacher. He sent disgusting emails with pictures to my wife on the school email. traded text messages at least a 100 a day with my wife during school hours. I exposed the A to his family and mine and he kept reaching out to her, no shame.
> 
> I exposed to the school sharing with the District Super and the School Principal, the emails and text message records. Anyone else would have been fired from their job. Nope he still is employed and a coach for the girls volleyball team. He should have been fired. He really was not focused for a whole school year. Oh and he had my wife hang with him a practices.
> 
> Yes Parents are an issue but teachers should be held to high standards and they are not


One of STBXW's colleagues was the head teacher at a church run school before he left under a cloud. His wife divorced him so I wonder what happened there.



mahike said:


> I think a 15 year old should be able to ask anything they want and get straight answers. Good for you with the IC, please keep it up. She can learn a lot about how she should live her life from how you handle things. Show her what a strong confident and a caring man should look like.


Thanks. She will be keeping up the IC as she was suffering from depression. We always went as a family and had a general session followed by individual if required.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Now about to meet my parents. Please wish me luck.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

edyjia said:


> All I can say is sorry you are here and going through this.


Thank you. I really wish I had this kind of support and advice after the first time. I cannot imagine how many people go through this pretty much alone, unaware of these types of groups.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

A quick update.

Dinner went pretty well with my parents. At least I now know have others who I can talk to. My best friends are all back in the UK so having the chance to sit and talk it over with them over a couple of beers is not possible.

I also asked STBXW if she could just text or email what she wanted to talk about. I know implementing the 180 isnt going to fix this but I just want to do it for my benefit and see if any remorse or realization that actually it was several EA's (I actually remembered last night that there may have been another one). She replied that what she has to say needs to be done face to face. I will meet her sometime today (neutral location again). She also messaged to say that she is missing D15 terribly. Well i can tell you the D15 is definitely not missing STBXW shouting and screaming at her constantly. Dont get me wrong D15 is very strong willed and likes to get her own way and I need to ensure that the correct boundaries are established and enforced but D15 certainly seems to feel less stressed and more open to doing what is needed to address some schoolwork issues.

Personally I am feeling somewhat numb is probably how I would best describe it. Not had a really down day, just a few moments here and there. Reading other threads I can see just how f*cked up the marriage has been for so long. I do still care for STBXW but I recognize that she is on a path that I do not wish to travel with her. The sad thing is that she is an only everything (child, grandchild). Her dad has passed, her mum's health / alcohol / mental issues can only lead to one thing in the near future and her grandmother is 93 and very fragile. I know that I cannot be responsible for STBXW in this regard as she has chosen others over me, but I think I need to tell the counsellor and get D15 as best prepared for what the next few years are likely to bring.

I also want to thank everyone for their replies. Reality sucks but the truth is what matters and being in fantasy land with STBXW is only going to lead to further heartache.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

One small thing that made me smile. D15 told me to download the free ITunes song of the week as she thought it was appropriate. Song is titled "Who Needs You"


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't know if its been suggested yet, but read MMSLP linked to below. There are many head slapping moments in this book. Things you will think "I should have known that, and I knew that all along but was convinced/taught otherwise."

There is a link below. Here is a link to the blog. Blog | Married Man Sex Life

By the way, the title is misleading. It is not a sex manual. It is the most recommended book for men here. Now we need to find its equivalent for women.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

BE the dad.

Nickelback - Never Gonna Be Alone [OFFICIAL VIDEO] - YouTube Even if you hate the band the vid should bring a lump to any dad with a dau.

VENT here. MANY find it therapeutic. Some of us hang around after the chase down of the wayward.

EERIE similarities to Whyeme then again. VERY LITTLE is ever truly new here.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> I don't know if its been suggested yet, but read MMSLP linked to below. There are many head slapping moments in this book. Things you will think "I should have known that, and I knew that all along but was convinced/taught otherwise."
> 
> There is a link below. Here is a link to the blog. Blog | Married Man Sex Life
> 
> By the way, the title is misleading. It is not a sex manual. It is the most recommended book for men here. Now we need to find its equivalent for women.


Thanks this is added to the list. Currently going through No More Mr Nice Guy (I have a lot of work to do and I'm on page 12  ).



weightlifter said:


> BE the dad.
> 
> Nickelback - Never Gonna Be Alone [OFFICIAL VIDEO] - YouTube Even if you hate the band the vid should bring a lump to any dad with a dau.
> 
> ...


Weightlifter. Come on man, that was too soon! I have heard that song so many times on the radio but had never seen the video.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Ok really need some help here to stay strong. 

Since STBXW left (Tuesday) I have had absolutely minimal contact. Arranging pick up of her clothes, swapping the insurance / cell phone into her own name. That is basically it. All done by email or text. I have probably been doing the 180 and basically letting her get on with it and I have tried to to keep myself busy and get on with my life. I have tweeted each day the positive things that have I have accomplished. I am dealing with a few things around the house that I had let slide as they were slight irritations. I am making posts on Facebook (some humorous) where I normally post very infrequently. She can see all of this happening but is not responding.

Last time she left she was messaging me constantly about how bad she felt and I responded (I know I shouldn't have), either by phone calls or text. We had date nights as suggested during the MC sessions. I did want her to stay away for a while (I knew she needed a major reality check with what life can be like working, being alone, having bills to pay, etc). As I mentioned in my first post, when she actually was truly on her own she lasted less than 24 hours before begging to come home.

So where am I going with this?

Well after I asked her last night if she could tell me whether she could tell me by text / email and she responded that she had to tell me in person and to give her a time and place. As I was going for dinner I didn't respond and I was going to wait and respond this morning when D15 was up and getting her focused on what she needs to get done this weekend to catch up with school. Before I could respond she emailed me with a letter attached. I would love to post it in its entirety but the basics are :



She wanted to speak to me personally to say how sorry she is.
What she did is unforgivable.
That she should have told me that she her feelings had changed.
That the EA's were romantic fantasy and nothing else. (She didn't call them EA's)
She is disgusted with herself. Isn't sleeping and is having panic attacks.
After I asked her to leave she saw exactly how much I loved her.
Being apart has put everything in perspective and that she does have feelings for me. Actually wants to take me to bed right now.
She has lost everything that means anything to her

Following the 180 I should not respond. There was no direct request to come back but the underlying tone is definitely there. I'll just keep on doing what I am doing.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

N211SP said:


> Ok really need some help here to stay strong.
> 
> Since STBXW left (Tuesday) I have had absolutely minimal contact. Arranging pick up of her clothes, swapping the insurance / cell phone into her own name. That is basically it. All done by email or text. I have probably been doing the 180 and basically letting her get on with it and I have tried to to keep myself busy and get on with my life. I have tweeted each day the positive things that have I have accomplished. I am dealing with a few things around the house that I had let slide as they were slight irritations. I am making posts on Facebook (some humorous) where I normally post very infrequently. She can see all of this happening but is not responding.
> 
> ...


*stop, before you do anything read MMSLP.

She is a serial cheater, absolutely make her get counseling before you consider letting her come back. Not even her daughter can stand it.

Serial cheaters are very broken, they rarely change. All you can expect from them is more of the same.

*


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Whwther you wants to give her another chance she nees to be on her own for a while, to get IC, to find out where her head and heart really are.
She already did the same years ago,: she didn't just re-discovered how much she loves you, while cheating on you for years and years with several OMs (I don'y buy the "just" EAs, which she doesn't even admit they are) and getting romanticaly attached to them. 
She needs really time on her own, don't let her back without the much needed work on herself.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

she really thinks she has you wrapped around her little finger. 

what she is telling you is so predictable and ordinary. i hope you don't fall for it. 

i'd tell her to f*ck right off and not to contact me again unless it's about your DD or finances. but that's just me. fool me once. . .


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks.

I will not respond. Attorney on Monday to get started on the D.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You are doing the right thing by contacting your lawyer.
She is in what is called damage control. She now sees that her cushy lifestyle will be coming to an end.

My guess is that you are a really nice guy and she thought that even if she engaged in affairs and got caught you would forgive her and therefore she would have nothing to lose....Wrong. She has shown a total lack of respect for you and your marriage.

Always remember: IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Is there any guidance anywhere on how the cheaters tend to respond to try and get back? It would be good to have an idea of what to expect next and be prepared.

Based on the "So No More Mr Nice Guy" book then I certainly seem to fit that profile, but I am reading the book and that will change. I guess being called a nice guy is almost the equivalent of when describing how hot a female is the response is "she has a great personality". 



bryanp said:


> You are doing the right thing by contacting your lawyer.
> She is in what is called *damage control*. She now sees that her cushy lifestyle will be coming to an end.
> 
> My guess is that you are a *really nice guy* and she thought that even if she engaged in affairs and got caught you would forgive her and therefore she would have nothing to lose....Wrong. She has shown a total lack of respect for you and your marriage.
> ...


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

So D15 has just gone to the movies + meal with her mum. She was hesitant but she has gone. When I received the email this morning she was sitting next to me but hasn't seen what was written. When I told her that STBXW had sent the email instead of meeting me her first question was "Is she wanting to come back" with a horrified look on her face.

As BRYANP noted, I need to make sure that I respect myself first and foremost. I need D15 to see I am getting on with things and not really moping around. That is priorities 1 and 2.

Of course my thanks to WEIGHTLIFTER for assisting with the respect thingy from D15 after sending that link to the Nickelback video.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

N211SP said:


> Of course my thanks to WEIGHTLIFTER for assisting with the respect thingy from D15 after sending that link to the Nickelback video.


BE THE DAD.  She may bloom just like Whyemes D11.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You are doing well OP. I'm with the others. Don't get back with her. She must think you are the dumbest guy around if she expects you to believe those were only EAs. I agree that she is a serial cheater and you need to get her out of your life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Good. Now that your progressing thru NMMNG get yourself a safe guy. Start doing the breaking free exercises.

Lift some heavy ****. Get yourself in great shape. This is one of the best medicines for depression. 

Another good book, and an easy read, is When I Say No, I feel Guilty.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You realize that there was physical infidelity too, right ? I hope you are not in denial about that part. How many times, is up in the air.




> My wife and daughter travelled back to the UK in Mid 2012 while I stayed back in the US working. I got a bit fed up of working so hard that I decided we would all spend Christmas together back in the UK. As a present my wife arranged for my daughter and myself to go to London on Dec 26th to see Les Miserables. She however had arranged to go and see a play with one of her favorite actors with her mother, also in England but not London on the same day but she would drive while we flew. Now she wasn’t sure if her mother would travel because of the visual scarring after her surgery and her health wasn’t (isn’t) great anyway. Anyway she dropped us at the airport and was supposed to head to her mothers to pick her up. Well when I called to see how things had gone she told me she had called her mother and that her mother wasn’t saying no but wasn’t quite ready so she decided to lie to her mother and tell her she had arranged to take her friend instead as she knew she wasn’t really up to it. Anyway we saw our respective shows and stayed overnight before travelling back on Dec 27th.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

N211SP said:


> Is there any guidance anywhere on how the cheaters tend to respond to try and get back? It would be good to have an idea of what to expect next and be prepared.
> 
> Based on the "So No More Mr Nice Guy" book then I certainly seem to fit that profile, but I am reading the book and that will change. I guess being called a nice guy is almost the equivalent of when describing how hot a female is the response is "she has a great personality".


There is a book that I think would help you: "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley.

There is a Plan A and a Plan B in the book. You are in Plan B right now... the 180 is about the same as Plan B. What I think the book will help with is to determine for yourself what you can expect/demand if you decide to give her another chance.. and where to draw the line if you decide not to.

Do you feel that you still love her? I get the impression that you do.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

That letter was just a smoke screen. 

She already showed you who she really is with the serial adultery. If that's the person you want to be with, that is on you.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

U.E. McGill said:


> Good. Now that your progressing thru NMMNG get yourself a safe guy. Start doing the breaking free exercises.
> 
> Lift some heavy ****. Get yourself in great shape. This is one of the best medicines for depression.
> 
> Another good book, and an easy read, is When I Say No, I feel Guilty.


Thanks. Surprisingly I am actually not feeling depressed, although I am doing some bike rides to help with weight reduction. Can I ask is the reading list a way to keep the BS from having time to think about matters?



warlock07 said:


> You realize that there was physical infidelity too, right ? I hope you are not in denial about that part. How many times, is up in the air.


Correct but given the OM is 4,000 miles away physical contact was limited to one possible night. However once is enough.



EleGirl said:


> There is a book that I think would help you: "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley.
> 
> There is a Plan A and a Plan B in the book. You are in Plan B right now... the 180 is about the same as Plan B. What I think the book will help with is to determine for yourself what you can expect/demand if you decide to give her another chance.. and where to draw the line if you decide not to.
> 
> Do you feel that you still love her? I get the impression that you do.


I do still care for her, but I have also taken on board the many replies telling me about the need for respect. The nice guy thing really got me when I began reading it. No-one in any marriage is perfect. We all have faults. When she had fallen out of love with me then the correct thing to do would have been to say so, leave the relationship and then be free to do what she felt would bring her happiness. Would it have hurt, hell yes, but a lot less than getting into an EA/PA.



Ripper said:


> That letter was just a smoke screen.
> 
> She already showed you who she really is with the serial adultery. If that's the person you want to be with, that is on you.


I am very wary of the letter. I haven't responded directly. I did respond to the email that contained the letter, but only to inform her about an IC for D15 that she needed to be aware of. I know many on here have mentioned that these things tend of follow a standard pattern. My question is by not responding what generally is the next play they attempt (if any) so that I can be prepared.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

N211SP said:


> I do still care for her, but I have also taken on board the many replies telling me about the need for respect. The nice guy thing really got me when I began reading it. No-one in any marriage is perfect. We all have faults. When she had fallen out of love with me then the correct thing to do would have been to say so, leave the relationship and then be free to do what she felt would bring her happiness. Would it have hurt, hell yes, but a lot less than getting into an EA/PA.


 Be very careful here of making your life’s decisions based on the popular opinion of those posting on forums. There is always a large number of men on this site that tell every man that in order to maintain self-respect he had to divorce a wife who cheated. It’s easy to give such clear cut advice on a forum.. after all they don’t have to live your life.

I agree that what your wife has done is terrible. But there is a chance that the two of you could repair your marriage if you are willing to try, she is truly remorseful for what she has done and the two of your work to rebuild your marriage. I’ve seen couple with situations as bad as yours, turn them around and go on to have very good marriages after wards. The affair(s) can have the effect of making a couple look at their marriage in a new way, to see how they neglected each other needs. I have often heard couples say that their marriage is better after the affair because they finally woke up to what was really important and how much they really loved their spouse.

Instead of telling you what you should do. I’d rather help out by pointing you to good resources so that you can figure out what is best for you and you family. I don’t think if you decide to give your marriage another chance means that you have no self-respect. Instead it could mean that you are a very strong man who has enough self-wroth and love to help someone you love fix and manage very serious flaws in herself. That’s why I suggested the book I did.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Thank you for your reply. I guess my biggest surprise is that the letter came so quickly this time. Perhaps this is to do with the lack of contact due to implementing the 180, or because this time I told her to pack her stuff and go, or a combination of both. Last time it did not happen until she had moved out of our friends (very nice) home and into an extended stay hotel about 30 days after moving out.

There have been several posters giving links to books to read and I would love to read them all, but that will take time. I also have other things I need to read to prepare for a possible new career and take care of D15 and regular household chores. D15 and I went away for the day today with my parents to try and do something different and to give us time to re-connect with them after almost 2 years.

As for the self respect side I think I need to work on it for D15 as well. She really has major issues with her mother and those really need to be resolved irrespective of what happens between her mother and myself. We had been working on that via IC and FC but it still has a long way to go and probably the fact that in her eyes that her mother left again is going to set that back somewhat. She was very unhappy when I agreed to take her back 3 years ago. 

The one thing that I have realized very quickly this time is that I too have been cheating. I have been cheating myself into thinking that everything was relatively OK when it quite clearly wasn't. I was not happy in my work life or marriage. I finally stood up and left my job and I have no regrets on that. I will find something else to do with less stress and more free time for me and D15. I need to do the same with my personal life now. The reason I am probably not depressed is really what have I lost? Sure I care for her and enjoyed spending time with her but as someone described it really was more of a roommate than an proper married relationship. 

I really do appreciate all of the posts on here and from them I need to work out the best course of action for me to take and yes, that is completely down to me.



EleGirl said:


> Be very careful here of making your life’s decisions based on the popular opinion of those posting on forums. There is always a large number of men on this site that tell every man that in order to maintain self-respect he had to divorce a wife who cheated. It’s easy to give such clear cut advice on a forum.. after all they don’t have to live your life.
> 
> I agree that what your wife has done is terrible. But there is a chance that the two of you could repair your marriage if you are willing to try, she is truly remorseful for what she has done and the two of your work to rebuild your marriage. I’ve seen couple with situations as bad as yours, turn them around and go on to have very good marriages after wards. The affair(s) can have the effect of making a couple look at their marriage in a new way, to see how they neglected each other needs. I have often heard couples say that their marriage is better after the affair because they finally woke up to what was really important and how much they really loved their spouse.
> 
> Instead of telling you what you should do. I’d rather help out by pointing you to good resources so that you can figure out what is best for you and you family. I don’t think if you decide to give your marriage another chance means that you have no self-respect. Instead it could mean that you are a very strong man who has enough self-wroth and love to help someone you love fix and manage very serious flaws in herself. That’s why I suggested the book I did.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Be very careful here of making your life’s decisions based on the popular opinion of those posting on forums. There is always a large number of men on this site that tell every man that in order to maintain self-respect he had to divorce a wife who cheated. It’s easy to give such clear cut advice on a forum.. after all they don’t have to live your life.


True, but most of us have dealt with infidelity.

This isn't one size fits all, but just like cheaters follow patterns/scripts, so do betrayed spouses. Those that cut off the parasite and move on, typically do better. 

That goes for any betrayed spouse, man or woman.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

N211

You know what is the worst thing about your wife?

The selfishness.

A wife that puts her self" before her marriage and husband.

A mother that puts her "self" before her family and daughter.

I think you should still meet the attorney. There is a very good chance that you and your daughter will be happier without your wife/her mother being involved with you two on a daily basis.

Think how sad that is if it is true?

But I also think if your wife does want to come home and work on the marriage that you put your foot down and say no.

That in order for you to even think about a reconciliation that your wife finds a good IC to work through her personal issues.

To determine why she is so selfish?
To determine why she can have affairs with OM that she has no chance of having real relationships with?
To determine why she cannot commit to your marriage? To you? To her daughter in a loving, meaningful way????

She has issues my friend. And neither you nor your daughter can help her solve them.

HM


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Well I just got another email this evening with letter no.2 attached. Much simpler this time. She wants to know what she needs to do to come back.

I am still going to the attorney tomorrow. Just like I am receiving advice from different perspectives on here, I am also going to listen to the attorney and get the details on what will happen in proceeding with filing for D. 

On Thursday I am taking D15 for an IC session. The counselor is already aware of what has happened and wishes to speak to us (parents) anyway. She specializes in family care and really does not pull any punches. This time it is just D15 and me. I will discuss and take advice from her also.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Again, when you have the time, do your own research on divorce/family court law. 

Not all attorneys are worthy of the name and it will help you know when one is dragging out the process for a payday.

If it helps, she is still following the script to the letter. Don't let it appeal to your ego, she is probably trying to prop up her Plan B.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

N211SP said:


> Also had a text this morning from the colleague who was promoted into my position *asking if she could persuade me to return. *
> 
> I do know why as my former boss called last night to tell me that the sh*t was about to hit the fan.
> 
> ...





N211SP said:


> * She wants to know what she needs to do to come back.*




*It is interesting, after having been replaced in both cases, that you have two "business" propositions asking to get back together in such a short period of time.

Neither one was really good for you or your daughter, and in both cases they were asking because it was good for them.



What to do? What to do? *




.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ripper said:


> True, but most of us have dealt with infidelity.
> 
> This isn't one size fits all, but just like cheaters follow patterns/scripts, so do betrayed spouses. Those that cut off the parasite and move on, typically do better.
> 
> That goes for any betrayed spouse, man or woman.


Yes I know that most of us have dealt with infidelity.. that goes for me as well. But none of us are experts. None of us have all the answers.

It is your assumption that those that cut off what you call 'the parasite" do better. But from things I have read, and even seen in real life, many people recover from infidelity and go on to have a better marriage afterwards.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Ripper said:


> Again, when you have the time, do your own research on divorce/family court law.
> 
> Not all attorneys are worthy of the name and it will help you know when one is dragging out the process for a payday.
> 
> If it helps, she is still following the script to the letter. Don't let it appeal to your ego, she is probably trying to prop up her Plan B.


Thanks. I have been researching on the divorce laws. I also spoke with a friend who went through it in the past couple of years.

Again you quote "the script". What can expect next? If I know what generally comes next then I am can be ready. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.



Decorum said:


> *It is interesting, after having been replaced in both cases, that you have two "business" propositions asking to get back together in such a short period of time.
> 
> Neither one was really good for you or your daughter, and in both cases they were asking because it was good for them.
> 
> ...


Correct and I quoted "never go back" and I am still in the same mindset.

Thank you all for your support.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

There was the one meeting possibility you know of but wasnt the original separation ONE GIANT meeting possibility in addition?


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Yes she did have that opportunity but it would not have been with OM as he was 4,000 miles away. He did not travel here and she did not go there. I am well aware though that it doesn't mean there wasn't someone else.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Ok so I met with the attorney. I was honest with the situation and she was very good. She listened, questioned me, presented options and answered all my questions. I now have a clearer idea on how to move forward whilst protecting myself and D15 legally.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

N211SP said:


> Ok so I met with the attorney. I was honest with the situation and she was very good. She listened, questioned me, presented options and answered all my questions. I now have a clearer idea on how to move forward whilst protecting myself and D15 legally.


That's good!! Now, keep that info to yourself. Do not tell your WW about the attorney for now.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

Tobyboy said:


> That's good!! Now, keep that info to yourself. Do not tell your WW about the attorney for now.


That was part of the advice


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> It is your assumption that those that cut off what you call 'the parasite" do better. But from things I have read, and even seen in real life, many people recover from infidelity and go on to have a better marriage afterwards.


We will never agree on this, that is okay. Life has taught us different lessons.

OP, this will play out just like before, if you let it. She will use you for security/comfort and other men for excitement/intimacy.


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

What can I expect next from her?



Ripper said:


> OP, this will play out just like before, if you let it. She will use you for security/comfort and other men for excitement/intimacy.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

N211SP said:


> What can I expect next from her?


The real question is to you! 

What's next? 

What can you do to focus on yourself for the better and move on!

Be prepared but don't get addicted to the drama.

Your ticket is for another stop, who gets on or off here? MEH!


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## N211SP (Apr 16, 2014)

What is next is that I need to hear from the attorney that she has everything prepared before going any further, hopefully within the next day or so.




Decorum said:


> The real question is to you!
> 
> What's next?
> 
> ...


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

N211SP said:


> What is next is that I need to hear from the attorney that she has everything prepared before going any further, hopefully within the next day or so.


I'm sure.

I mean as much as possible keep building for a better you and a better future for you and your daughter).

Take advantage of the resources offered here, workout (Gym Bunny's, that cute), mainly don't live for this process.

Your lawyer will shepherd you through this as the needed steps arise and you will get plenty of insight here.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

N211SP said:


> What is next is that I need to hear from the attorney that she has everything prepared before going any further, hopefully within the next day or so.


Best choice. 

Your wife has wasted a lot of years in this marriage. She is not now and has not been marriage material. Even if she fully intended (big IF) to work on the issues that permit her to be adulterous and fast to run away, it would be years away with very low odds. Your DD would be an adult by then and you would have been waiting for more of the same.

No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group


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