# Lack of trust, extreme Jealousy, or is it normal to feel like this



## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

Hello Everyone. my wife is very sociable, and friendly in her workplace, everyone loves her. we've been married for 9 years, with 2 kids.
but lately, she has been close friend with 2 individuals (one women, with apparent problems with her husband on a way to divorce, and one male, single.
They take their coffee breaks together; they talk a lot after work (especially early in the night by phone or WhatsApp), we go out occasionally, i do know them, and they are generally nice people, easy going, fun to be around.
The reason why i'm writing, is because 2 things happened, that i did not like much:
1 - both of them were supposed to go out with us to a night club on a saturday, but the woman had a fight with her husband, the guy had travelled on a business trip last week, and he returned saturday morning, but he did not join, due another commitment.
During our night, and around 12:15am, i was sitting with my wife, and she received a whatsapp message, from this guy, inquiring about how our night is going, and to tell her where he is at, and to tell her, that he wishes he could have made with us, and my wife responding to his messages normally, and he later wraps up the conversation with 2 smileys with kisses.
I did show my wife that i was not at ease with what happened, and she told me that it's completely normal, and he is like my brother, and that i'm overacting.

2-she gets a gift from him just today morning, as it's a habit for us in our culture to get our friends gifts when we return from a travel trip, a small little thing, a small gesture... My issue is with the gift itself, and not the gift process as a whole
He got her one alcohol bottle worth $20, and a Branded perfume worth $70

My wife casually sent me what she got, and i was livid. she as well explained that don't go far in your thinking, and remove those black thoughts from your head,... and that also got the woman friend a perfume...

Do you think i'm overacting? or should i fear that something is not right? or it's a normal way i should think like this?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I’d be pissed if a female coworker got my husband $100 gift if it weren’t for a work reason from the entire team.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Marca1984 said:


> Hello Everyone. my wife is very sociable, and friendly in her workplace, everyone loves her. we've been married for 9 years, with 2 kids.
> but lately, she has been close friend with 2 individuals (one women, with apparent problems with her husband on a way to divorce, and one male, single.
> They take their coffee breaks together; they talk a lot after work (especially early in the night by phone or WhatsApp), we go out occasionally, i do know them, and they are generally nice people, easy going, fun to be around.
> The reason why i'm writing, is because 2 things happened, that i did not like much:
> ...


From your description it feels like a situation that could become a serious problem. It’s hard to say if it is that now or not.

I would be uncomfortable with a _close_ male friend in the first place. Adding coffee dates and after hours chatting, kissy emos and personal gifts… yea I would be getting upset about it too.

Sounds like a direct talk about boundaries is in order.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Marca1984 said:


> Hello Everyone. my wife is very sociable, and friendly in her workplace, everyone loves her. we've been married for 9 years, with 2 kids.
> but lately, she has been close friend with 2 individuals (one women, with apparent problems with her husband on a way to divorce, and one male, single.
> They take their coffee breaks together; they talk a lot after work (especially early in the night by phone or WhatsApp), we go out occasionally, i do know them, and they are generally nice people, easy going, fun to be around.
> The reason why i'm writing, is because 2 things happened, that i did not like much:
> ...


I wouldn`t say you are over reacting. I too would not feel comfortable if a male, other than a family member bought my wife $90 worth of gifts.
What I would do: is explain to your wife that you don`t think it is befitting for a guy to buy a married woman such extravagant gifts and to tell the guy not to do this again because her husband doesn`t like it.
Also make clear if she doesn`t tell him, you will.
Regardless of what your wife thinks or whether she gets angry or tries to gaslight you, nip this in the bud now before it gets out of hand because it appears to me this guy is hitting on your wife.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

My friend, I grew up with very close friends from your culture. I know that giving expensive gifts is not out of the ordinary so I am not surprised by the value of the gifts. A few questions though:

Do you live in Lebanon or are you somewhere else? (If in Lebanon, then less concerning, if in the USA for example, then maybe not the norm).

Is the guy well off? What does he and your wife do for a living? Do they both earn well?

Why is he single?

As others are telling you, a wife having close friends of the opposite sex is always a concern.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

It's past time for you to have a sit down with the wife and establish some boundaries.
His actions are extremely inappropriate.
I'd be discussing with your wife how things got to this point.
I'll take a WAG and propose that at least at a subliminal level, her actions have been encouraging this very thing.
You need to have two convos: one with "Loverboy," where he is redirected by you, and another with the Mrs., where you tell her that this isn't going to happen in the marriage (at least if she hopes to continue in one with you.)


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I am curious if your wife would feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot adn you were friends with another woman single or otherwise and bestowing gifts like that or communicatiing in such a way.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

The guy's behavior is way out of bounds & your wife is wrong for not shutting it down. If she was naively clueless before the gifts, once he forked over expensive travel presents, she should have woken up, not accepted them & told him point blank that giving her gifts is not acceptable. Her failure to do that is problematic. The fact that she prefaced her disclosure to you about the gift by downplaying it & deflecting tells me she knows what's going on & how this guy feels but she likes the attention. 

Calling a co-worker after mid-night on a Saturday night / Sunday morning is also crossing a line. Post Covid work times may be blurred but that is too much. They also weren't talking about work so thus guy clearly has feelings about your wife. 

You need to tell her his behavior is wrong & her failure to address it concerns you. See how she reacts. If she does anything other than take your feelings into account that will be very bad for your marriage.


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## elliblue (7 mo ago)

Sounds like he is gay. Maybe due to your culture he isn't out of the closet. 
Parfume and kiss smileys. Comon'. A guy. Pfff...
G.A.Y.!!!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Perfume is a very personal/intimate gift, and this may be tough to hear, but while your wife may think she's not encouraging this, she's not discouraging it. He could be a crazed stalker and completely acting out on his own, but it sounds like your wife has become quite friendly with him.

I'm not sure what advice to give. This seems to be a trend with spouses flirting and developing inappropriate relationships with their coworkers. I would simply tell her that you think this is disrespectful and that she needs to stop encouraging this behavior with this guy. If it keeps up, you may have a difficult decision to make. Not saying where things are, that this is divorce worthy, but this is how affairs start.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Uh, no wonder the _husband_ of your wife's female friend is mad at her.
She is still married and is going on a double date with a single man.

Yes, that would certainly cause marital problems! 

This female friend of hers is toxic to your marriage.
However, your wife is encouraging her cheating.

Oh, yeah, this dude is schmoozing, both her and your wife. 

Both ladies are enjoying the attention.
They both like this interloper, so, I call some sort of inappropriate emotional affair, at minimum.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

elliblue said:


> Sounds like he is gay. Maybe due to your culture he isn't out of the closet.
> Parfume and kiss smileys. Comon'. A guy. Pfff...
> G.A.Y.!!!


It wouldn’t be the first time a gay guy ****ed his female bff coworker. You are being very naive.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

elliblue said:


> Sounds like he is gay. Maybe due to your culture he isn't out of the closet.
> Parfume and kiss smileys. Comon'. A guy. Pfff...
> G.A.Y.!!!


Gay can be a gray notion, and they often enjoy the pink that is inside both sexes.

A male may prefer hotdogs, but doughnuts are also palatable!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I suggest reading Not Just Friends.

There are red flags and there is no way to know if anything is going on yet unless she confesses to something.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ABHale said:


> I suggest reading Not Just Friends.
> 
> There are red flags and there is no way to know if anything is going on yet unless she confesses to something.


Something is going on.....

This triangle-friendship is conditioning.

OP's wife has already overlooked both of her coworkers behaviors.

She has made a value judgement with respect to these two individuals.
She finds their actions and words, acceptable.

This is telling, and worrisome.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Marca1984 said:


> Hello Everyone. my wife is very sociable, and friendly in her workplace, everyone loves her. we've been married for 9 years, with 2 kids.
> but lately, she has been close friend with 2 individuals (one women, with apparent problems with her husband on a way to divorce, and one male, single.
> They take their coffee breaks together; they talk a lot after work (especially early in the night by phone or WhatsApp), we go out occasionally, i do know them, and they are generally nice people, easy going, fun to be around.
> The reason why i'm writing, is because 2 things happened, that i did not like much:
> ...


Yep, all the women say to there spouses...oh he's just a coworker, just a friend or like a brother....till your back door slams when you come in the front. Always, regardless of what the wife says stand your ground in your beliefs and defend her honor and your marriage from all interlopers. Not acceptable and you and your spouse should have a serious discussion on boundaries. Also insist that the gifts be returned. I'd also include a note for him to think twice about trying to scratch in your litter box!


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Marca1984 said:


> Do you think i'm overacting? or should i fear that something is not right? or it's a normal way i should think like this?


You're not overreacting. The most worrisome thing to me is that she is trying to play this relationship down. She is showing complete inappropriate boundaries in regards to your marriage. It's time to get serious.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I read your other post.

That one involved her (male and married) driver buying a small, personalized mug, as a gift.
She and the driver seemed a little too chummy.

At your insistence, she later told the driver to cool down the friendship.

..................................

Now, she is in another jealousy pickle with you.

Another male pickle is worming his way into your marriage.

I attribute this to your wife being very (and naturally) open and friendly.
And, you feel the need to guard her from possible predators.
I get it.

She may never cheat on you, but she seems to enjoy sitting in that steamy back room.

Your jealousy may be pushing her away.
It shouldn't, but it might.

Who knows?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

We can’t control what others do, but your wife shouldn’t have accepted the gifts. Unless it’s a holiday gift thing, that’s different.

By not accepting, it sends a message. I hadn’t considered that he could be gay but she’d know this I think, since they seem to talk a lot.

But he bought the perfume for her female friend too, hmm. Maybe…he’s just a generous, nice guy?

Either way, it’s too personal of a gift in my opinion.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Perfume is a very personal/intimate gift, and this may be tough to hear, but while your wife may think she's not encouraging this, she's not discouraging it. He could be a crazed stalker and completely acting out on his own, but it sounds like your wife has become quite friendly with him.
> 
> I'm not sure what advice to give. This seems to be a trend with spouses flirting and developing inappropriate relationships with their coworkers. I would simply tell her that you think this is disrespectful and that she needs to stop encouraging this behavior with this guy. If it keeps up, you may have a difficult decision to make. Not saying where things are, that this is divorce worthy, but this is how affairs start.


Actually you make some good points.
How would this guy know what kind of perfume and type of alcoholic drink the OP`s wife likes? Because as you say; a type of perfume is very personal/intimate to each individual. It`s like smoking cigarettes, every smoker has their favourite brand of cigarettes.
I once bought my mother a bottle of expensive perfume for her birthday, but I already knew what her favourite brand of perfume was. If I got her the wrong type she probably wouldn`t have used it.
Sorry, but this is the detective coming out in me.
It is possible this guy told the OP`s wife he was going to buy her some presents and she told him what she likes.
As regards this guy also bought perfume for another female friend, how does the OP know this is true?
I don`t smell perfume but I do smell a rat.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

gameopoly5 said:


> Actually you make some good points.
> How would this guy know what kind of perfume and type of alcoholic drink the OP`s wife likes? Because as you say; a type of perfume is very personal/intimate to each individual. It`s like smoking cigarettes, every smoker has their favourite brand of cigarettes.
> I once bought my mother a bottle of expensive perfume for her birthday, but I already knew what her favourite brand of perfume was. If I got her the wrong type she probably wouldn`t have used it.
> Sorry, but this is the detective coming out in me.
> ...


That’s a great point, too! I hadn’t thought of him asking her what to get and she told him. I’m picky about perfumes and it’s not like you can buy someone any scent, and it will work.

I think the OP is in a position where she may placate him and say it’s nothing, but it’s not nothing.

I think in the end, it comes down to what you’ll tolerate in your relationship.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out why someone at work would think getting a married woman perfume would be ok and I... can't. Even between my female work friends, that's a VERY personal gift. My spidey sense would go wild at that too. Inappropriate.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, I'm trying to figure out why someone at work would think getting a married woman perfume would be ok and I... can't. Even between my female work friends, that's a VERY personal gift. My spidey sense would go wild at that too. Inappropriate.


Me too, but this may be a cultural difference. The OP's flag looks like Lebanon. He had a similar issue previously where his wife received a gift from different male employee.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Romeo fancies your wife and at the very least, she likes the attention he’s giving.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Marca1984 said:


> My wife casually sent me what she got, and i was livid. she as well explained that don't go far in your thinking, and remove those black thoughts from your head,... and that also got the woman friend a perfume...
> 
> Do you think i'm overacting? or should i fear that something is not right? or it's a normal way i should think like this?


So he is a player who disguises his intent by being inappropriate to more than one female, did he give anything to less attractive women?

And why is he giving gifts like that to a woman who has marital problems?

Frankly I would dump the booze and perfume on his head.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

One other question why does the other office woman have problems with her marriage, are her marital problems the result of this OM?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah, I'm trying to figure out why someone at work would think getting a married woman perfume would be ok and I... can't. Even between my female work friends, that's a VERY personal gift. My spidey sense would go wild at that too. Inappropriate.


Yeah, but he said it's common to gift well in their culture. Isn't perfume one of the limited items at the airport gift shop?

He's the one who knows the culture . Certainly in US, this would not be acceptable, but he is who knows what is done there and what is not. This again comes down to how well you know your spouse and whether or not you trust HER, not him. Yes, maybe she is naive, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't draw the line if he tried to physically cross it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah, but he said it's common to gift well in their culture. Isn't perfume one of the limited items at the airport gift shop?
> 
> He's the one who knows the culture . Certainly in US, this would not be acceptable, but he is who knows what is done there and what is not. This again comes down to how well you know your spouse and whether or not you trust HER, not him. Yes, maybe she is naive, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't draw the line if he tried to physically cross it.


Maybe panties would be acceptable. I'm for that.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

If you read here often it's a pretty common thread for the wife to say "he's like a brother" either before or while she is doinking him. Be wary of this guy. Your wife should be shutting this down.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Maybe panties would be acceptable. I'm for that.


Granny panties! If I ever meet you, Ragnar, I'll buy you some. We'll see what your missus thinks of that.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

We may talk about trust, which is good.
But what trust is about?
Is about what didn´t already happens, what we don´t know for sure and perhaps about our conjectural certainty that something known (and still acceptable) would not lead to future events that crosses THAT line.
May be also about the highly debatable place of intentions as meaning makers.
It don´t seems to apply to what is actual (or past) and known.

It would be not only nice but virtuous to hope that she would stop him in case of a conjectural further stronger action.

But THIS assumes that what happened and is known is or should be acceptable.

I don´t think so.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I would hand deliver the perfume back to him …. then make him drink it !!

Your wife is full of BS and this is over the line…. and you know it.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> I read your other post.
> 
> That one involved her (male and married) driver buying a small, personalized mug, as a gift.
> She and the driver seemed a little too chummy.
> ...


Funnily enough, that too was a Lebanese story!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> Funnily enough, that too was a Lebanese story!


Just checked - same OP!!! In that case where the gift was a personalised mug that broke and was replaced by Romeo boy. OP is this the same fellow as in your older post re the mug?


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

I will try to reply to all of your comments. It's in our culture to exchange gifts when travelling, at least most of us do like this.
my wife was on a business trip last month, she got this guy a simple $2 souvenir, a typical gift
He, on the other hand, asked her what to get, as it will make his life easier, he is a very generous guy who always buys expensive gifts to all of his friends, he is single, with a good salary.
my wife told him get anything you want, but she did ask him for this particular alcohol bottle from the duty-free shop, since we like it, and I can't find it in supermarkets.
I did confront her about the perfume straight away, and she told me that her female friend also blamed him on the value of the gift, and that it was necessary to get such an expensive thing. my wife also told him so and hinted to him that I did not like the gesture, and wanted to pay him for the gifts, so he told her, that it is a gift, and there is no way i will accept your money, and he told her, and the other lady friend, that it would be the last time that he will buy an expensive gift.
The perfume he got for my wife, is not her typical perfume, actually she does not know it, and he too does not know what her favorite perfume is.
He told both of them, that this is what he knows to get, he doesn't get cheap gifts, especially for his close friends. (He has known the female coworker for 14 years, and my wife for 8)
the female co-worker, has marital problems from day 1, but in Lebanon, it's hard to divorce just like that, so she is living on a very long and slow divorce process

and I did remind my wife about the mug, and that she needed to make more clear boundaries, especially that she is married.

the problem in our culture, that we all become friends with our co-workers, and we become friends with their families. we go out together, they come for visits (those 2 friends have visited our home a lot, and the guy on one occasion, got 2 expensive whiskey bottles as a gift for a dinner we had organized for selected people at our place)

Maybe they got close friends due to the fact that in my wife's company, they have a car-pooling system in place to save fuel, and this guy lives down the street, so every morning, he drives my wife to work in the company car, and my wife's position is a financial controller, and head of payroll, so she always have to deal with all employees, and most of them are suck-ups since she handles money...

The problem is, and because of our culture, we tend to dive in the inner close friend circle very deep. those 2 friends are the fiercest defenders of my wife's interests in the company. Anything she needs, they make the impossible to let it happen, especially the male friend, as he is the head of IT, so he gets her all the equipment's she needs.
they both help me a lot, when i was organizing a birthday party for my wife, 3 months ago. they both got her jewelry as birthday gifts.
one might say after reading this, that it is normal to get a gift like this, but my old school mind kicked in, and told that no this is not appropriate...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

My sense is that there's nothing currently going on but the boundaries are questionable. I have several male friends at work that I'm close to but we don't hang out, we just chat at work. One guy likes to talk politics with me, one talks stock market as we both trade and one rides bikes and runs like I do. But no conversations happen at night, although the cyclist has texted me on a couple of occasions to ask about a morning ride and when he does he'll ask about my bf since he rides too. He doesn't text to see what's up.....that's weird

What is it that you want your wife to do? Work alliances are important but so are boundaries, so I think you need to tell her specifically what you want. Is it no texting after a certain hour? No hanging out one on one? Limits on gifts? 

What boundaries would make you more comfortable? Do you join your wife in after work activities? My guy is invited to everything.

I also agree that it would be good to know why this guy is single.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Marca1984 said:


> I will try to reply to all of your comments. It's in our culture to exchange gifts when travelling, at least most of us do like this.
> my wife was on a business trip last month, she got this guy a simple $2 souvenir, a typical gift
> He, on the other hand, asked her what to get, as it will make his life easier, he is a very generous guy who always buys expensive gifts to all of his friends, he is single, with a good salary.
> my wife told him get anything you want, but she did ask him for this particular alcohol bottle from the duty-free shop, since we like it, and I can't find it in supermarkets.
> ...


It sounds like your wife handled it herself, no? Her and the other female coworker already told him the gift was not appropriate and he said he wouldn't do it again. So, what made you post here if she already addressed it? Was not addressed to your satisfaction?


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Marca1984 said:


> Hello Everyone. my wife is very sociable, and friendly in her workplace, everyone loves her. we've been married for 9 years, with 2 kids.
> but lately, she has been close friend with 2 individuals (one women, with apparent problems with her husband on a way to divorce, and one male, single.
> They take their coffee breaks together; they talk a lot after work (especially early in the night by phone or WhatsApp), we go out occasionally, i do know them, and they are generally nice people, easy going, fun to be around.
> The reason why i'm writing, is because 2 things happened, that i did not like much:
> ...


No, you're not overreacting. And yes, the gifts and texts demonstrate a degree of intimacy between the two that you were unaware of, judging by your response, precisely because SHE kept it from you, which is a red flag.

"He's just a friend" or "he's gay" or "he's a coworker" or "he's married" are 99% of the time euphemisms to hide the fact that 1) the person is in her radar, 2) she intends for the relationship to advance behind your back and 3) she wants to take your attention off of what is really going on.

The only way to stop these behaviors is by demanding that she cut all ties with this guy and that not doing so essentially means the end of the relationship. Of course, dress it up in nice words and gradually incorporate the *or else* attitude in your conversation if she does not budge.

It doesn't sound like anything physical or emotional went on but I do sense a bit of an intention on your wife's part to keep him around as an _orbiter_. He misjudged the situation and took it one step too far. BUT rest assured that if you were to have an end-of-the-relationship caliber fight, that your wife is going to run to that guy faster than Usain Bolt. Hence demand she cut any and all ties.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> No, you're not overreacting. And yes, the gifts and texts demonstrate a degree of intimacy between the two that you were unaware of, judging by your response, precisely because SHE kept it from you, which is a red flag.
> 
> "He's just a friend" or "he's gay" or "he's a coworker" or "he's married" are 99% of the time euphemisms to hide the fact that 1) the person is in her radar, 2) she intends for the relationship to advance behind your back and 3) she wants to take your attention off of what is really going on.
> 
> ...


What did she keep from OP? Nothing that I can see in the post. Everything was done in the open. Nothing hidden.

Gift giving is a part of the culture, he did go overboard with the gift, for both women. They both told him it wasn't appropriate and he agreed to not do it again. Where is the problem here?

How do you suggest a person in a high level position, Financial Controller and head of payroll, cut all ties with a employee of the company? She should quit because someone gave her an inappropriate gift that she told him was such? Make no sense to me.


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## BelsBeast66 (3 mo ago)

Marca1984 said:


> Hello Everyone. my wife is very sociable, and friendly in her workplace, everyone loves her. we've been married for 9 years, with 2 kids.
> but lately, she has been close friend with 2 individuals (one women, with apparent problems with her husband on a way to divorce, and one male, single.
> They take their coffee breaks together; they talk a lot after work (especially early in the night by phone or WhatsApp), we go out occasionally, i do know them, and they are generally nice people, easy going, fun to be around.
> The reason why i'm writing, is because 2 things happened, that i did not like much:
> ...


Alcohol and perfume.. to me that’s a signal sent from him to her that in my opinion he’s saying he wants more than friendship from YOUR wife.


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

Lostinthought61 said:


> I am curious if your wife would feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot adn you were friends with another woman single or otherwise and bestowing gifts like that or communicatiing in such a way.


I asked her that very same question: she said: i won't accept such gesture, so i replied, then why is it ok for you but not for me??? She replied: it's different, i don't trust any woman lurking around you...


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

Captain Obvious said:


> Romeo fancies your wife and at the very least, she likes the attention he’s giving.


Why would she like the attention? I'm not falling short in any of the romantic gestures or love or attention, i always like a queen...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Marca1984 said:


> I asked her that very same question: she said: i won't accept such gesture, so i replied, then why is it ok for you but not for me??? She replied: it's different, i don't trust any woman lurking around you...


That response tells me she knows it's not ok. If it was innocent she wouldn't care if roles were reversed.

Maybe you should tell her you'll find a nice female friend.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

If the cultural norm for you is to give gifts when traveling the mug she received & the $2 trinket she got him were fine. They were tokens. They are far from a $70 bottle of perfume, which is too expensive & too intimate.



Marca1984 said:


> Why would she like the attention? I'm not falling short in any of the romantic gestures or love or attention, i always like a queen...


It may have nothing to do with how well you treat her. She may simply like having other men lust after her. It's a power trip & a rush


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

@Marca1984 hi Marca

my wife is Lebanese and I showed her your post - she said that based on this your wife has an emotional affair with the guy. yes in her culture we bring big gifts, but typically these expensive gifts are for the household as a whole, such box of chocolate, or something for all the house member to use. 

Perfume, and Expensive drinks means a message " I like you" and "I like you too" 

and she said if it is not already been physical together 

but either way they both have feelings for each others


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Marca1984 said:


> Why would she like the attention? I'm not falling short in any of the romantic gestures or love or attention, i always like a queen...


some women like attentions, and some have higher sex drive that their own partner cant satisfy, then there is the thrill of cheating. then there is "I still got it", then there is "that feeling of new love or story" . 

she also may be trying to open the door for open relationship - I heard that open relationships and swingers are big in Lebanon.

quick question, do you allow her to go party and clubbing with her girlfriends?


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What did she keep from OP? Nothing that I can see in the post. Everything was done in the open. Nothing hidden.
> 
> Gift giving is a part of the culture, he did go overboard with the gift, for both women. They both told him it wasn't appropriate and he agreed to not do it again. Where is the problem here?
> 
> How do you suggest a person in a high level position, Financial Controller and head of payroll, cut all ties with a employee of the company? She should quit because someone gave her an inappropriate gift that she told him was such? Make no sense to me.


Primarily because of this: “_but lately, she has been close friend with 2 individuals (one women, with apparent problems with her husband on a way to divorce, and one male, single.

They take their coffee breaks together; they talk a lot after work (especially early in the night by phone or WhatsApp), we go out occasionally, i do know them, and they are generally nice people, easy going, fun to be around.

The reason why i'm writing, is because 2 things happened, that *i did not like much*”_

Because of the above. His gut (which knows more than we do) is telling him something is amiss.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from TAM is that most cases of EA or PA are born out of secrecy, with hiding the extent and degree of intimacy between the SO and the third person. Usually, the third person will test and retest the SO’s resolve until there’s a chïnk in the armor.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Marca1984 said:


> I asked her that very same question: she said: i won't accept such gesture, so i replied, then why is it ok for you but not for me??? She replied: it's different, i don't trust any woman lurking around you...


What a freaking hypocrite...i would tell her to pound sand....


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Marca1984 said:


> Why would she like the attention? I'm not falling short in any of the romantic gestures or love or attention, i always like a queen...


A well off single guy is lavishing her with attention and gifts, she's getting ego boosts from it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Marca1984 said:


> Why would she like the attention? I'm not falling short in any of the romantic gestures or love or attention, i always like a queen...


The coworker is new and forbidden, it adds the thrill to the attention. It isn’t because you are not romantic yourself, your the husband and it’s expected.

I would talk with a female friend if I was you and have her send you gifts that you buy yourself. See how your wife handles it.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Marca1984 said:


> I will try to reply to all of your comments. It's in our culture to exchange gifts when travelling, at least most of us do like this.
> my wife was on a business trip last month, she got this guy a simple $2 souvenir, a typical gift
> *He, on the other hand, asked her what to get, as it will make his life easier, he is a very generous guy who always buys expensive gifts to all of his friends, he is single, with a good salary.
> my wife told him get anything you want, but she did ask him for this particular alcohol bottle from the duty-free shop, since we like it, and I can't find it in supermarkets.*
> ...


I knew my assumptions were right.
So your wife asked this guy to buy her a particular brand of alcohol but did not ask him to buy her the expensive perfume. *Poppycock.*
How would this guy had known what type of perfume your wife likes. No one would spend $70 on a her perfume for someone not knowing if that person would like it or not. 
You said; the perfume he got for my wife, is not her typical perfume. Sorry I`m not buying it.
Also a guy wouldn`t spend $90 on presents for a woman unless they are more than simply just friends and I don`t care what culture they come from.
If you did not have concerns and suspiions that something is off than you wouldn`t have created this thread.


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> The coworker is new and forbidden, it adds the thrill to the attention. It isn’t because you are not romantic yourself, your the husband and it’s expected.
> 
> I would talk with a female friend if I was you and have her send you gifts that you buy yourself. See how your wife handles it.


I know her, she will freak out...


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> I knew my assumptions were right.
> So your wife asked this guy to buy her a particular brand of alcohol but did not ask him to buy her the expensive perfume. *Poppycock.*
> How would this guy had known what type of perfume your wife likes. No one would spend $70 on a her perfume for someone not knowing if that person would like it or not.
> You said; the perfume he got for my wife, is not her typical perfume. Sorry I`m not buying it.
> ...


I know my wife well enough, to determine if she likes this perfume or not; i've known here since 2005, we were still in college; she is not aware of such perfume, i used to work in retail, and i used to get her the perfumes; she does not know this perfume, nor she has ever tried it


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> some women like attentions, and some have higher sex drive that their own partner can't satisfy, then there is the thrill of cheating. then there is "I still got it", then there is "that feeling of new love or story" .
> 
> she also may be trying to open the door for open relationship - I heard that open relationships and swingers are big in Lebanon.
> 
> quick question, do you allow her to go to party and clubbing with her girlfriends?


In reply to your 3 notes:

1- She does like attention, ever since we were dating back in 2005, i won't deny that, but not in an extreme way, as far as i know... for the intimate part, she rarely initiates any kind of activity, it's always me who prepares the mood, or initiates with her, but she always reacts extremely positively
2- Not in my entourage, sorry as far as i know, such thing is still a taboo; I did mention this to her, just for the sake of opening a subject, her reply was: i can't possibly imagine myself sharing you with another woman, or let a man, other than you, touch me (this was around beginning 2022)
3- She won't go without me; we always go out clubbing together, I sometimes tell her to go out without me, just to test her reaction, she always says no, i won't go without you. sometimes, she goes out after work for a quick bite in a cafe with her girls' friends, and have a hookah, nothing fancy...


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Marca1984 said:


> In reply to your 3 notes:
> 
> 1- She does like attention, ever since we were dating back in 2005, i won't deny that, but not in an extreme way, as far as i know... for the intimate part, she rarely initiates any kind of activity, it's always me who prepares the mood, or initiates with her, but she always reacts extremely positively
> 2- Not in my entourage, sorry as far as i know, such thing is still a taboo; I did mention this to her, just for the sake of opening a subject, her reply was: i can't possibly imagine myself sharing you with another woman, or let a man, other than you, touch me (this was around beginning 2022)
> 3- She won't go without me; we always go out clubbing together, I sometimes tell her to go out without me, just to test her reaction, she always says no, i won't go without you. sometimes, she goes out after work for a quick bite in a cafe with her girls' friends, and have a hookah, nothing fancy...


That`s good news.
Seems you have nothing to worry about.
A happy ending, possibly.


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> That`s good news.
> Seems you have nothing to worry about.
> A happy ending, possibly.


Hopefully my friend. as much as we hear stories here and there, about couple having issues, you start to worry about your relationship with your wife. maybe the stress of everyday, work, taking care of 2 kids, the crushing crisis in the country, and the economy, all add up in your head, and make you feel insecure and wonder how to make everything work fine...


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Dude, do it on a just-in-case basis: monitor her communications without her knowing and check for secrecy. If you catch her keeping little secrets, there's a very good chance a big one is just around the corner.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Marca1984 said:


> I know my wife well enough, to determine if she likes this perfume or not; i've known here since 2005, we were still in college; she is not aware of such perfume, i used to work in retail, and i used to get her the perfumes; she does not know this perfume, nor she has ever tried it


But I bet she would try it, and even like it, if it was a gift from someone she was in an emotional affair with.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

@Marca1984 i really think you are in a good situation but dont let your guards down. and keep brining the open relationship and swinging (Not to go through) but it is a good way for you to see her stands about other people. if she changes from no to may be i will think about it then definitely she is interested about a new experience and you need to have your guards up. 

as far as the expensive gift, I will let it go and dont make a big deal of it. do not return it or make a fuss but monitor the situation closely. 

but your wife from what I see is loyal to you and like attention and free gifts 

I would be worried if

1- she started to take care of herself more - like dress nicer, smell nicer, new underswears
2- she starts asking for girls night out
3- glued to her phone
4- asking for a new sexual moves

my recommendation, start going out clubbing with her like your days when you were dating. you said economy crisis, nothing expensive, im sure there are cheap clubs there. 

do you work by the way or are you stay home?


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> @Marca1984 i really think you are in a good situation but dont let your guards down. and keep brining the open relationship and swinging (Not to go through) but it is a good way for you to see her stands about other people. if she changes from no to may be i will think about it then definitely she is interested about a new experience and you need to have your guards up.
> 
> as far as the expensive gift, I will let it go and dont make a big deal of it. do not return it or make a fuss but monitor the situation closely.
> 
> ...


1- the only thing she is doing lately, is doing her eyelashes . i urge her to do sports to be more fit, as she gained a little weight lately, but still nice, nothing i object... Her undies are old, hasn't got any from several years ago. i only got her new swimsuits almost 2 years ago, and i just went ang got her several new undies, as she needs new ones
2- all her girls' friends are married with kids, so no time to go out during the week, as kids need to study, sleep early and we have to prepare them for the next day, we only have the luxury of going out in the weekend, unless it is an after work something.
3- she is not glued to her phone, at least not SUPER-GLUED, like any other girl when on the phone. This is an area i need to watch out for more, but nothing alarming so far, even though she tends to keep her phone close to her, but never objects me checking it out. we do share the passwords of our phones, and the fingerprints...
4- never got in her mind, again, i usually set the tone here, she is reactive, not proactive

For the clubbing thing, you are right, we got active again these couple of months back, following my recommendation, and i started behaving more actively during our night out, as i'm known to be the quiet one on the dance floor, and she is the dancer, so i'm trying to keep up with her, which she is liking by the way, and she always tells me i love you like this, keep it going

i also work, together we have a considerably acceptable income during this crisis, much better than most of the people around us


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> But I bet she would try it, and even like it, if it was a gift from someone she was in an emotional affair with.


when i confronted her about it, she told me, that she is willing to return it back to him, or even gift it to her sister, i told her to keep it, but for next time be wary of such gestures from him or anyone else.
Now, it is placed in the drawer, as she already has 3 perfumes that she is using, so no need to open a 4th one


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Marca1984 said:


> when i confronted her about it, she told me, that she is willing to return it back to him, or even gift it to her sister, i told her to keep it, but for next time be wary of such gestures from him or anyone else.
> Now, it is placed in the drawer, as she already has 3 perfumes that she is using, so no need to open a 4th one


You should have her throw it out. Establish boundaries.

Of course she's going to tell you she will return it, what do you expect her to say?
"No, I won't because I'm in love with him and don't want to hurt his feelings?"

The memory you want her to keep will be of your enforcement of boundaries.
If she keeps the perfume, she will be remembering HIM and his generosity and his pursuit of her.
And if she ever wears it...guess who will be on her mind?

Have her throw it in the trash.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Marca1984 said:


> when i confronted her about it, she told me, that she is willing to return it back to him, or even gift it to her sister, i told her to keep it, but for next time be wary of such gestures from him or anyone else.
> Now, it is placed in the drawer, as she already has 3 perfumes that she is using, so no need to open a 4th one


Did she put a sticker on it that says this one from Billy-bob?

Everytime she sees the bottle he'll come to mind of course.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Marca1984 said:


> I will try to reply to all of your comments. It's in our culture to exchange gifts when travelling, at least most of us do like this.
> my wife was on a business trip last month, she got this guy a simple $2 souvenir, a typical gift
> He, on the other hand, asked her what to get, as it will make his life easier, he is a very generous guy who always buys expensive gifts to all of his friends, he is single, with a good salary.
> my wife told him get anything you want, but she did ask him for this particular alcohol bottle from the duty-free shop, since we like it, and I can't find it in supermarkets.
> ...


It may be perfume he likes so he will get a ego boost when she wears his perfume to work.....the only perfume my wife will wear is my favorite one that I get her for gift.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Marca1984 said:


> I know her, she will freak out...


Tough shyt, maybe she will get it! But probably not.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Marca1984 said:


> when i confronted her about it, she told me, that she is willing to return it back to him, or even gift it to her sister, i told her to keep it, but for next time be wary of such gestures from him or anyone else.
> Now, it is placed in the drawer, as she already has 3 perfumes that she is using, so no need to open a 4th one


She needs to regift it to friend or relative


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> She needs to regift it to friend or relative


This is what will happen


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> @Marca1984 hi Marca
> 
> my wife is Lebanese and I showed her your post - she said that based on this your wife has an emotional affair with the guy. yes in her culture we bring big gifts, but typically these expensive gifts are for the household as a whole, such box of chocolate, or something for all the house member to use.
> 
> ...





BoSlander said:


> Dude, do it on a just-in-case basis: monitor her communications without her knowing and check for secrecy. If you catch her keeping little secrets, there's a very good chance a big one is just around the corner.


And how do you suggest i do that? Like spying on her cell? How can i do that?


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Marca1984 said:


> And how do you suggest i do that? Like spying on her cell? How can i do that?


yes, take underground, dont ever bring it up. and just monitor and spy on her phone, lifestyle, emails, etc...


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

@Marca1984 

if you look from outside the box, and knowing your wife, what does that other guy has that you dont?
answer honestly 
is he better looking or more money? same age or older

has your wife ever mentioned something positive about him - or did a comparison?


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

blackclover3 said:


> @Marca1984 hi Marca
> 
> my wife is Lebanese and I showed her your post - she said that based on this your wife has an emotional affair with the guy. yes in her culture we bring big gifts, but typically these expensive gifts are for the household as a whole, such box of chocolate, or something for all the house member to use.
> 
> ...


I have roots (half of my ancestors) in the Near East.
And I know that most of traditions involve an implicit code / frame of meaning.
Most of what may seem to us to be meaningless variations of a certain otherwise usual behaviour (like generous gift giving) is a message with a social code EVEN if it´s not individualy concious.
They would decode the perfume gift (given from and to whom) near as your wife said.
May be they wouldn´t conclude that already is an emotional affair.
But yes a man situating himself in a "higher" position conflicting with the woman´s partner one AND a woman allowing him to do it.
AND understanding that only an open social rejection of his implicit pretensions would be meaningful, instead of a soft "don´t do it again".


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> @Marca1984
> 
> if you look from outside the box, and knowing your wife, what does that other guy has that you dont?
> answer honestly
> ...


he is 3 years older
physically, i have the edge, in all areas (taller, fitter,...)
his salary is better than mine, i know this is for a fact, as my wife works on the salaries of her company, and she brings work home a lot, so i know
his has lots of connections in his life, people with influence that can help him (he uses this power to help others; it happened to us just last Friday, he helped us go and finish a paperwork in the general security office that i needed for our kids school)
she mentions him positively, that he is a good guy, always willing to help his friends in any way possible, especially his close friends.


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

blackclover3 said:


> yes, take underground, dont ever bring it up. and just monitor and spy on her phone, lifestyle, emails, etc...


so i need to get like a special app installed on her phone to be able to monitor. i can't just take her phone and check it. if anyone wants to act suspiciously, he would be extra careful, and delete all unwanted things from the cell


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

This normally begins when a husband starts to have insecurities if his wife starts exhibiting suspicious behavior and eventually it transpires she's cheating.

Anyhow, unfortunately unlike the guys that handle these situations like a boss, other guys handle this instead like wimps and also the ones about the guys getting screwed up that ultimately results to be a whole roller coaster ride of crap she puts him through.

I know a lot of you guys don't like hearing stories when these guys act like simps, however I think it's very important to face up to the reality and try come out on top.

When a guy acts weak whenever his wife or girlfriend disrespects him and he doesn't stand up for himself when he should, whenever he sacrifices all his personal happiness to make her happy which in-fact can have an opposite effect of a woman becoming bored in a relationship.

It can result with more disrespect, BS and more chance of cheating and affairs involved. On the other hand when a guy checks his girl and doesn't make her the center of his Universe I mean he's good to her because she's his girl and she's good to him but he doesn't make her the end-all be all of his existence. He checks her whenever she's disrespectful or maybe gaslighting and certainly if she cheats on him he kicks her backside to the curb.

It's amazing how quickly these women will treat their guys right because usually they come willing to do anything to get back into guys good graces and she`ll revert to her best behavior.

Women don't respect weakness and I can't stress enough, if a guy acts weak and he's a pushover and lets his female partner have her way with him, than the less respect she`ll have for him.

In the majority of wife infidelity cases it`s usually the beta male nice guys that get cheated on.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

gameopoly5 said:


> In the majority of wife infidelity cases it`s usually the beta male nice guys that get cheated on.


Nah, I disagree, anyone can get cheated on, it just takes picking the wrong woman. I'm definitely not a weakling and I got cheated on many times. I chose women poorly. The difference is, I cut the adulterous scum out of my life immediately. I take no blame for their lack of morals, self control and pursuite of animalistic desires.

The thing is, cheaters don't ever deserve another chance and will never get one from me.


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Nah, I disagree, anyone can get cheated on, it just takes picking the wrong woman. I'm definitely not a weakling and I got cheated on many times. I chose women poorly. The difference is, I cut the adulterous scum out of my life immediately. I take no blame for their lack of morals, self control and pursuite of animalistic desires.
> 
> The thing is, cheaters don't ever deserve another chance and will never get one from me.



True, anyone can get cheated on, whether he was weak or a prick. and in reply to @gameopoly5, not all women will get bored. i think their behavior is related somehow to how well they were raised by their parents, and they were taught to treat people. i know her parents are saints, and she is a good woman, maybe she is being too nice and friendly to him, and polite, since she is in contact with him every day.
Or as a lot of the participants in this post say that she is enjoying the extra attention, or maybe something not nice is actually happening. one can never be enough cautious to such behaviors...


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> Nah, I disagree, anyone can get cheated on, it just takes picking the wrong woman. I'm definitely not a weakling and I got cheated on many times. I chose women poorly. The difference is, I cut the adulterous scum out of my life immediately. I take no blame for their lack of morals, self control and pursuite of animalistic desires.
> 
> The thing is, cheaters don't ever deserve another chance and will never get one from me.


You are misconstruing my post.
I agree of course anyone can get cheated on.
My points, if you care to read my post again that if a man suspects his wife or girlfriend is cheating, is to be strong and not turning a blind eye to it or try ot make excuses for his wife`s behaviour.
Also what to do if he does catch his wife cheating.
My message is actually to the OP, who said; maybe his wife is being too nice and friendly to that guy, and polite, since she is in contact with him every day.
My questions to the OP are, what does he intend to do about it? Put his foot down with his wife? Have a word with the guy? Continue on to have insecurities? Or let it go thinking he maybe over reacting?


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

gameopoly5 said:


> You are misconstruing my post.
> I agree of course anyone can get cheated on.
> My points, if you care to read my post again that if a man suspects his wife or girlfriend is cheating, is to be strong and not turning a blind eye to it or try ot make excuses for his wife`s behaviour.
> Also what to do if he does catch his wife cheating.
> ...


I comprehend now. The moment I suspected anything, I became an instant prick and I was not wrong so far.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Marca1984 said:


> [...]i know her parents are saints, and she is a good woman, maybe she is being too nice and friendly to him, and polite, since she is in contact with him every day.[...]


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I comprehend now. The moment I suspected anything, I became an instant prick and I was not wrong so far.


No, I don`t think you are the P word and judging by your posts, you`re nobodies fool either.
I doubt many could pull the wool over your eyes.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

gameopoly5 said:


> No, I don`t think you are the P word and judging by your posts, you`re nobodies fool either.
> I doubt many could pull the wool over your eyes.


I appreciate the vote of confidence.


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## Marca1984 (11 mo ago)

Ok Guys, why whenever a couple get into a fight, no matter how silly or big it was, all the black thoughts and fears come alive, and bombard your head with negative thinking, and create this toxic environment in your brain? you begin to think all those things, that can destroy the trust in a matter of seconds?


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

it will be a long post

I don't know your culture and your laws. The comments may be inaccurate, to share my point of view.

Courts and families react differently when cheating is proven in your country.

Cheaters are aware of the risks and develop themselves in hiding the relationship.

what I want to ask

"Buying an expensive perfume for a colleague in a country of increasing economic problems does not prove to be special?"

"Does your wife like attention and can act out of control in the appropriate approach?"

"You grew up in the same culture as these people, wouldn't they question if their spouses were given perfume as a gift?"

your wife said she can't trust the women around you,

If we look at it from a different angle, she is the woman around some men!

she is a woman to whom expensive perfume is gifted,

If this gift and its price are heard in the workplace, it can be misunderstood, if it is hidden, it is already wrong.

a wise woman should complement her words with her gestures, your wife contradicts.

the time spent at work cannot be proven, there may be environments where they can be alone for themselves, such as offices, warehouses, stairs, toilets, etc.

There is no private message or call on the phone, the time spent at work is sufficient for a relationship.

You should consider the possibility of cheating.

I don't know your culture. The comment may be wrong.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

I joined the thread because it was a gift perfume.

For me, perfume is a gift for my girlfriends, wife or family.

I usually take care to buy a perfume that he has not used until then.

I am attached to the idea that the scent reminds her of me.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Marca1984 said:


> Ok Guys, why whenever a couple get into a fight, no matter how silly or big it was, all the black thoughts and fears come alive, and bombard your head with negative thinking, and create this toxic environment in your brain? you begin to think all those things, that can destroy the trust in a matter of seconds?


I imagine it is because those thoughts are there even when you aren't fighting. They are just dormant in the back of your mind. The argument and anger bring it to the front of your mind and the feed the anger. It doesn't even have to be trust issues. It could be her complaining about how you didn't load the dishwasher correctly or that you forgot some important date. There is some kind of resentment lurking. About the only way to deal with it is to truly forgive the person for the past transgressions and don't let yourself remain a victim to them. 

What was it that brought about this post?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Marca1984 said:


> so i need to get like a special app installed on her phone to be able to monitor. i can't just take her phone and check it. if anyone wants to act suspiciously, he would be extra careful, and delete all unwanted things from the cell


Connect her iPhone to an iPad. Monitor from the iPad.


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