# Struggling



## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

How do I communicate my needs and not feel like I’m fulfilling my own needs for myself? 

So I am still struggling with feeling loved by my H. We both read 5LL and both realize what each others love language is and what the other person needs to feel loved ( I am gifts and words of affirmation..H is physical touch). I asked him the other night if he felt like I loved him. If he could feel/see that I was doing stuff that made him feel loved. He said yes. He has always felt that from me, but it has been much more deliberate lately. That’s good we both agreed. So when it was my turn to elaborate how I felt, he didn’t understand how I still felt little love coming from him. He says,” but I am touching you and complimenting you all the time” “When I say ‘you look nice today’, you don’t overly show that you appreciate what I’ve said” So I say “I do appreciate it when you compliment me, but why do I have to validate that you gave me a compliment. You should say whatever it is you want to say and know that’s enough because if there was something I didn’t like or appreciate it…you would know. When I say ‘Thank you’ to whatever you say, that I hear you and appreciate what you said.” He says..”fair enough”. I then go on to say that when he touches me, hugs me…it’s nice, but not something that I crave…like he does. Physical touch is last on my list and he doesn’t understand that. 

So he tells me to make a list of things he can buy for me so he can get them and show me he loves me. I told him it’s not the same if I give him a specific list for him to just go buy what I could buy for myself. We have talked about in MC the kinds of things that I would like/see as “gifts”…putting gas in my car, back rubs, etc…nothing fancy or expensive. I don’t expect diamond things…that’s ridiculous..we both know that…lol. After 16+ freaking years how can he not come up with one thing on his own?? He has given me two deliberate “gifts” since we discovered the 5LL results 5+ weeks ago…putting gas in my car once and buying me a coffee mug that I wanted and was mad at myself for not buying. (Rereading that makes me sound childish about not getting gifts….I hope you guys can read past that and not think that is all I am trying to get out of all this, because it is totally not.)

So….how do I get my point across that I didn’t pick gifts as my LL and as stupid as it may seem to him…that is what shows love for me? If I have to tell him specifically what to get/do every day/week, how is that coming from him? Sounds to me like I would just be barking orders and demands, that is not anything I enjoy doing at all!

I am almost back to the point of just sucking it all up and just living like this forever… Please him and in his eyes, everything is alright in the world.

Thanks for reading and letting me vent….


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Sounds like my H. Errr STBXH


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> So he tells me to make a list of things he can buy for me so he can get them and show me he loves me. I told him it’s not the same if I give him a specific list for him to just go buy what I could buy for myself. We have talked about in MC the kinds of things that I would like/see as “gifts”…putting gas in my car, back rubs, etc…nothing fancy or expensive. I don’t expect diamond things…that’s ridiculous..we both know that…lol. After 16+ freaking years how can he not come up with one thing on his own?? He has given me two deliberate “gifts” since we discovered the 5LL results 5+ weeks ago…putting gas in my car once and buying me a coffee mug that I wanted and was mad at myself for not buying. (Rereading that makes me sound childish about not getting gifts….I hope you guys can read past that and not think that is all I am trying to get out of all this, because it is totally not.)


Yeah, my wife likes "gifts" as well, but it isn't always material items. When a spouse comes home from grocery shopping and he surprises her with her favorite dark chocolate, it sends a message to her...It tells her "I've been thinking of you while I was out and when I saw this, I got it for you and I hope you enjoy it."...a gesture...and sometimes small gestures are the best. And I know that she is always down with back scratches and back rubs...That one is a "no brainer" 

I agree CJB...a list kinda detracts from the message/gesture. I know it isn't much, but I hear you my friend. Hope you two get through this. *hug*


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Men don't play or understand "hintese." 

You're going to have to play by his rules at first to get him going. 

He plainly asked you for something achievable, and you pushed back. Make a small list of things you want. It's not that hard. You're expecting him to interpret a lot when you need to take baby steps.

When he gets you those things, give him a big hug and kiss. 

Your languages are different and neither of you is a mind reader. It's not going to happen overnight because you read a book.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

If it was a matter of obtaining items she wants, she could get them herself. Making a list defeats the whole purpose of gift giving. She needs him to think about her. He should damn well know her and her tastes by now.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

He sounds apathetic as hell.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> He sounds apathetic as hell.


JADED ARE WE??!!! ha F it Its wine time!!!! DUDE


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Elizabeth001 said:


> If it was a matter of obtaining items she wants, she could get them herself. Making a list defeats the whole purpose of gift giving. She needs him to think about her. He should damn well know her and her tastes by now.


Elizabeth, I don't know the OP or her husband, but I have known men that need things spelled out. My ex being one. You'd think after 13 years he'd know my tastes but he didn't, and every Christmas and birthday was, "just tell me what you want." Deflating, no? 

It was actually relieving for him to have me write a list once I finally did it. Then I wasn't disappointed and he felt he was doing something right. It's laying the track and getting the train going slowly. Not a permanent solution but it did help in my case. Maybe it will or won't help OP, only she can decide. 

Just sharing what worked for me is all.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Have you considered that it isn't gifts that you prefer but acts of service. You are interpreting these acts of service as gifts. Has he regularly performed acts of service for you - i.e. gassing up the car, backrubs, footrubs?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Satya said:


> Men don't play or understand "hintese."
> 
> You're going to have to play by his rules at first to get him going.
> 
> ...


We did talk it out in MC about things I like and what would be the random things to do/get. So it's not like I completely refused to give him suggestions. I guess it just frustrates me that, yes we have talked about it and now I have to write it all out for him again. Maybe he should have made the list while we were discussing it in MC? IDK....


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Have you considered that it isn't gifts that you prefer but acts of service. You are interpreting these acts of service as gifts. Has he regularly performed acts of service for you - i.e. gassing up the car, backrubs, footrubs?


Acts of service ranked 3rd for me. I guess I see acts of service as doing something for me that I do or handle everyday. I think gifts is accurate because it is what I first think about doing for others. 

And LOL!!! No! I would ask/BEG for footrubs while pg and nada. I frequently ask for backrubs and nothing....


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> We did talk it out in MC about things I like and what would be the random things to do/get. So it's not like I completely refused to give him suggestions. I guess it just frustrates me that, yes we have talked about it and now I have to write it all out for him again. Maybe he should have made the list while we were discussing it in MC? IDK....


Not sure if this is applicable CJB, but allow me to share a recent "revelation" about how different my wife and I convey our needs.

Allow me to preface my assertion by stating that I am having to learn/relearn a lot of stuff through my therapy, but things have changed so dramatically in our relationship, which is great, since I discovered this...

My wife doesn't think like I do. She processes the world through her own filter just like I do. That being the case, we "see" things differently. I know this may come as a surprise, because the concept is so elementary, but I really never "got it". I just assumed that she saw things like I did. This is probably something that most people who are in a relationship understand from the get go, but I don't think like most people.

Anyway, to make a long story short...Now that I know this, whenever I think" she is upset with me because she is silent, I remind myself that this is part of "her being her"...She an introvert. I never saw her as one, but she really is.

My understanding her behavior and accepting it has dramatically reduced the amount of arguments/hurt feelings in our relationship. Not sure if I made any sense here, but I HTH.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

CatJayBird - you have to understand that we men are as dumb as a bag of rocks sometimes.... well, maybe most of the time.

I remember the time I was going to buy my wife the perfect Christmas gift. I must have looked in every jewelry store on the planet. I found what I thought was a perfect necklace for her. Of course.... it was not the right style or what she really wanted. We went hand in hand back to the store and exchanged the necklace for new earrings. Coming out of the store I heard these words "Honey I don't care about the necklace or the earrings. What I care about is the time and effort you spent in trying to find something perfect for me. It tells me you love me so." (Big fat sloppy wet kiss in the parking lot).

CatJayBird, if he is trying it means he loves you. Take it as such.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Satya said:


> Elizabeth, I don't know the OP or her husband, but I have known men that need things spelled out. My ex being one. You'd think after 13 years he'd know my tastes but he didn't, and every Christmas and birthday was, "just tell me what you want." Deflating, no?
> 
> It was actually relieving for him to have me write a list once I finally did it. Then I wasn't disappointed and he felt he was doing something right. It's laying the track and getting the train going slowly. Not a permanent solution but it did help in my case. Maybe it will or won't help OP, only she can decide.
> 
> Just sharing what worked for me is all.


I understand what you are saying.

Here's an example of me being direct in what I want when we were still giving Christmas presents to each other: 
Me: I need some basic simple stud earrings
Me: (showing in a magazine) These are nice. I like these.
Me: (while at a store) I would LOVE something like these.
Me: If you need a gift idea for me....remember those stud earrings I showed you? I really really liked them.

Me: (opening up my gift) Pulling out huge silver hoops from the box... "I love them! Thank you so much!"
My daughter: *face palm*

H: *beaming*

Now don't get me wrong...I really did love the hoops...I am actually wearing them today...but.......


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

Absurdist said:


> CatJayBird - you have to understand that we men are as dumb as a bag of rocks sometimes.... well, maybe most of the time.


He...yeah...there is that too. LOL!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

CatJayBird said:


> Now don't get me wrong...I really did love the hoops...I am actually wearing them today...but.......


Right! So, what's your problem?  

Kidding... I've gone through the same. It's enormously frustrating. 

Here's something I ordered my SO for his birthday (end of December, lucky bloke). It is literal to a fault and fun. It also keeps us in action around doing things for each other. If your man doesn't get the hint in writing, then... My only other suggestion would be MC! 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/16010...nock+knock&dpPl=1&dpID=411PuccVgwL&ref=plSrch


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Absurdist said:


> CatJayBird - you have to understand that we men are as dumb as a bag of rocks sometimes.... well, maybe most of the time.
> 
> I remember the time I was going to buy my wife the perfect Christmas gift. I must have looked in every jewelry store on the planet. I found what I thought was a perfect necklace for her. Of course.... it was not the right style or what she really wanted. We went hand in hand back to the store and exchanged the necklace for new earrings. Coming out of the store I heard these words "Honey I don't care about the necklace or the earrings. What I care about is the time and effort you spent in trying to find something perfect for me. It tells me you love me so." (Big fat sloppy wet kiss in the parking lot).
> 
> CatJayBird, if he is trying it means he loves you. Take it as such.


I get that...and I do appreciate it...but is he really trying? I do things for him everyday...random non-sexual touches, sexual touches, saying appreciative things, doing things for him..... Since we started MC back in July....he's talked to me in my primary LL...twice...


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

CatJayBird said:


> I get that...and I do appreciate it...but is he really trying? I do things for him everyday...random non-sexual touches, sexual touches, saying appreciative things, doing things for him..... Since we started MC back in July....he's talked to me in my primary LL...twice...



Which would be why I called apathy. 

Yes DUDE...its wine time. Yay! But I haven't had any yet. Stay tuned


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Why are you keeping score?

I think you're focusing so much on what he is not doing (or not doing just right) and then comparing it to what you do for him. 

A gift (in whatever form) needs to be a gift freely given... you seem to point out this flaw in your husband (that you have to give him a list) but isn't your attitude about "well I do this and that for him..." have the same flavor?

Like Satya said...a change in dynamics takes time...working on this over the long haul is where loving your husband comes to light.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Gosh, your husband asking you to make a list of gifts is like you telling your husband to ask you to physically touch him when he wants you to. Have you tried explaining it to him like this?


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

cons said:


> Why are you keeping score?
> 
> I think you're focusing so much on what he is not doing (or not doing just right) and then comparing it to what you do for him.
> 
> ...


I'm really truly not trying to keep score. I just think I'm the only one really trying...even though he has said that he has always felt love from me..it is just more abundant now...which then makes him feel satisfied and like everything is great and we are good...which we are most definitely not!

When I do things for him that I know he likes and needs...I expect nothing in return. I do these things because I know this is what he wants and needs. But when I no reciprocating love...that hurts...

I guess I just keep giving and giving until I have no more to give.....

This all completely sucks....I hate being in this situation....


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Which would be why I called apathy.
> 
> Yes DUDE...its wine time. Yay! But I haven't had any yet. Stay tuned


Uh oh, this thread might get real interesting after the cork is popped! ha! Dude


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"I guess I just keep giving and giving until I have no more to give.."

Martyrs are such a drag. Since you are feeling so put up on why not just cut down on the loving things you do for your husband? He'll either notice or he won't. At least you won't be constantly feeling that you're getting the short end of the stick. 

And, never ask your husband to buy jewelry. Invariably they will get the metal wrong, or the neckline wrong, the size wrong or the color. It's just not worth it. Household appliances are your best bet. lol


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> "I guess I just keep giving and giving until I have no more to give.."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*wine game on*

This post blows. She is NOT a martyr. She's tired of putting in 110% when he's just playing along. Keeping score does become relevant when you are towing the whole damn cart. She's trying everything she can and then foundering for a lifesaver. 

Never ask your husband to buy jewelry? What a crock of sh1t! She just explained how he *knows* what she likes because A) He's been with her FOREVER and B) She Fvucking TOLD him. 

Dude is in the blue. He's content and could care LESS what is important to her. Apathetic.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Why SHOULD HE ROW THE BOAT? After all, they day is warm and the sun is up. Much nicer to lay back and enjoy the ride because she looks so happy rowing for both of us. 

Think about it.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Christ on the cross this has me all fired up. Can someone please tell me why I would "ask" my husband if I can "please" have this specific piece of jewelry or a household appliance that we need? WTH? The last time I looked, it was 2015. OMG. I'm going to to bed. 

You're welcome


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Hey, Lizzie101, have you sobered up?

"I guess I just keep giving and giving until I have no more to give...."

This is what makes her a martyr. Why did her husband buy her jewelry? Because she asked him to. 

I'm sorry your man done you wrong but your situation is not hers.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Sorry to mention this, but if you had delayed your binge drinking episode, you might have found the time to offer the OP some advice. That is the purpose of her thread although you seem to think it's to ridicule people who actually responded to her.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Hey, Lizzie101, have you sobered up?
> 
> What's it to you? Last time I checked, I am an adult.
> 
> ...





Blondilocks said:


> Sorry to mention this,
> No, you are not because if you were, you wouldn't have. I pissed you off and you retaliated.
> 
> but if you had delayed your binge drinking episode,
> ...


I am *guessing* that she has catered to her H for so long that he has become quite comfortable letting her. She probably feels like she has lost herself in the process. Just a GUESS (because her situation seems VERY similar to mine). If she comes back, maybe she will tell us.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> "I guess I just keep giving and giving until I have no more to give.."
> 
> Martyrs are such a drag. Since you are feeling so put up on why not just cut down on the loving things you do for your husband? He'll either notice or he won't. At least you won't be constantly feeling that you're getting the short end of the stick.
> 
> And, never ask your husband to buy jewelry. Invariably they will get the metal wrong, or the neckline wrong, the size wrong or the color. It's just not worth it. Household appliances are your best bet. lol


Sorry I'm being a drag...that is most certainly NOT my intention.

The advice from here and the books I've read and am reading say to keep doing what I've been doing....eventually my H will see and do for me as well..... This is why I have not withheld anything. I was really hoping me going above and beyond would open his eyes.

I'm guessing if I showed him the exact household appliance I wanted in magazines, ads or in the store...he would still get me something different...because it is what he thinks is the best gift choice.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Elizabeth001 said:


> I am *guessing* that she has catered to her H for so long that he has become quite comfortable letting her. She probably feels like she has lost herself in the process. Just a GUESS (because her situation seems VERY similar to mine). If she comes back, maybe she will tell us.


Yes.....This! Totally and completely lost! I gave all I had for him to finish school through the birth of our first two kids. School, his job, his family, other obligations ALL came before me. I did it all because that is the type of person I am. Throughout all these years I started to feel less and less appreciated and like my thoughts and ideas didn't matter. I felt and was treated like I was beneath him....like I was one of his workers. I let resentment in and started shutting off. Now I'm trying to claw my way out and trying to make it work again, but I once again feel like I'm doing all the work. 

I realize that it got this bad because I LET him treat me this way. But now that we are both aware......it's just defeating that I can't get through to him..

Thanks for letting me vent....


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I feel for you sweetie. My marriage didn't work out because of poor communication. I'm hoping that you can break through to him. 

Please start doing things for yourself and above all, love yourself. 

Perhaps the 180 for you? There are many threads here about it. 

If you can't get him to check back into your marriage, you may just need to move on. A marriage takes 2 and you can't MAKE him care. 

Good luck to you!


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Lila said:


> Gosh, your husband asking you to make a list of gifts is like you telling your husband to ask you to physically touch him when he wants you to. Have you tried explaining it to him like this?


Basically...Maybe I should bring it up again...It sure as hell can't hurt..


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

I'll do some research on the 180....I have yet to look into that. Thanks!


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Hmmmm,

Try reading Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. And like previously suggested, look into "acts of service" as your LL versus gifts. Just because a quiz says something doesn't mean its infallible. Everyone's interpretations of things are different. You sound more like an Act of Service Gal to me and I don't even know you.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

GA HEART said:


> Hmmmm,
> 
> Try reading Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. And like previously suggested, look into "acts of service" as your LL versus gifts. Just because a quiz says something doesn't mean its infallible. Everyone's interpretations of things are different. You sound more like an Act of Service Gal to me and I don't even know you.


Thank you...I will look into this book! 

If one good thing comes out of all this..I will be well read and can pass on the positives to my kids for their future relationships.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

You sound kinda like me in my first marriage. There is a certain amount of our own emotional baggage we have to carry. NO, this does not mean that he isn't meeting your needs and should work a little bit harder at that. But perhaps you don't really understand your own needs fully. That was my problem and that book helped me out TREMENDOUSLY. Good luck!


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

MountainRunner said:


> Yeah, my wife likes "gifts" as well, but it isn't always material items. When a spouse comes home from grocery shopping and he surprises her with her favorite dark chocolate, it sends a message to her...It tells her "I've been thinking of you while I was out and when I saw this, I got it for you and I hope you enjoy it."...a gesture...and sometimes small gestures are the best. And I know that she is always down with back scratches and back rubs...That one is a "no brainer"
> 
> I agree CJB...a list kinda detracts from the message/gesture. I know it isn't much, but I hear you my friend. Hope you two get through this. *hug*



After going through this thread again, I just wanted to give MR a kudos for this post. Spot on


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

We had our MC session today.....Our counselor said she is worried about us...

She asked him what things he thought he was doing to speak my LLs.... He said "I'm listening more and trying to retain what she tells me" "I'm giving her space" She made a funny look...and then re-asked what kinds of gifts or affirming words he was using....he stumbled and got agitated.... I cried..... #lame

When I brought up the subject of writing out a list of stuff, he said he didn't want a list.....sigh.... She suggested I start with writing down my favorite stores so he can get me GC....since my bday and Christmas are coming up...also for other holidays.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

CatJayBird said:


> We had our MC session today.....Our counselor said she is worried about us...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No advice. Just


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

CatJayBird said:


> We had our MC session today.....Our counselor said she is worried about us...
> 
> She asked him what things he thought he was doing to speak my LLs.... He said "I'm listening more and trying to retain what she tells me" "I'm giving her space" She made a funny look...and then re-asked what kinds of gifts or affirming words he was using....he stumbled and got agitated.... I cried..... #lame
> 
> When I brought up the subject of writing out a list of stuff, he said he didn't want a list.....sigh.... She suggested I start with writing down my favorite stores so he can get me GC....since my bday and Christmas are coming up...also for other holidays.


CatJayBird - if you could "re-design or re-engineer" your husband, what would you do? What would the finished product look like?

Think for a minute with me. Do you think that your husband woke up one day decided he was going to hurt you as bad as he possibly could? I'm going to be the most inattentive, clueless person on the planet just so CatJayBird suffers. Do you really think that? Really?

What you have is a man just like any other man on the planet (me included)... a dumba$$. A guy that wants to be THAT GUY for you but he doesn't know how to go about it. And when he doesn't know how to go about it he gets frustrated and the cycle continues... and you're ready to pull your hair out.

You two guys really love each other. It comes out in every post you make. At least that's my impression. One of you will have to break this crazy chain. It all starts with having a little grace for each other.


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Absurdist said:


> CatJayBird - if you could "re-design or re-engineer" your husband, what would you do? What would the finished product look like?
> 
> Think for a minute with me. Do you think that your husband woke up one day decided he was going to hurt you as bad as he possibly could? I'm going to be the most inattentive, clueless person on the planet just so CatJayBird suffers. Do you really think that? Really?
> 
> ...


I do love my H and care about him. I just want to feel that back from him. I want to be put first occasionally. I want to know that even in his busy day, he thinks about me. I want it to feel genuine and not forced or like he's put out in doing so. I don't think that is too much to ask for. Am I being unreasonable here? I want to feel excitement when we see each other and not dread in his eyes or he see dread in my eyes. 

Right now we are just kinda roommates with benefits. I'm still trying, but some days...man...I just want to throw in the towel.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"She asked him what things he thought he was doing to speak my LLs.... He said "I'm listening more and trying to retain what she tells me" "I'm giving her space" She made a funny look...and then re-asked what kinds of gifts or affirming words he was using....he stumbled and got agitated.... I cried..... #lame"

Sorry, but I had to laugh at this. Your husband comes across as having ADD. The poor guy can't even remember your love languages. The counselor could have held his feet to the fire for a bit, though.

If it is very important for you that you receive gifts from him, then realize that he just may not have what it takes. One approach could be that you buy your own presents and he buys his. Since he isn't able to meet this need of yours then you can decide if you want to meet one of his needs. No, this isn't tit for tat - it's a balancing act to prevent you from feeling as if you're the only one who is getting stiffed. Cuts down on the fuel for resentment.

Some manicurists give foot rubs that include a leg rub. That would be on my list.


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