# Sexless in a Christian Mans Marriage.



## RDJ

It is my opinion that sex is a gift from God to be shared between husband and wife.

It is also my opinion that sex is a gift that a man gives to a woman, a gift that shows his love, affection, pride, and respect for his woman.

As Christians, most of us are familiar with this quote from the bible.
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
—Ephesians 5:22-33

Most Christian men in a sexless marriage are familiar with the first passage quoted above. They see that their wife is not being affectionate, loving and sexual with them, and they feel that she is failing to obey the will of the Lord. She is failing to submit to her husband and the marriage.

However, these men do not seem to put as much stock in the second passage. The Lord commands men to be leaders for their families. They are commanded to love their wives even as they love themselves. How many men can claim to be living up to this passage in our modern society?

When a man finds himself in a marriage where his wife is unaffectionate, unloving, and seldom, if ever sexual, it is not that she is simply being disobedient. She no longer views her husband as the “leader” of their marriage. She no longer views sex with her husband as the “gift” that God intended it to be.

I know what you are thinking; today’s women do not want to be “led”. They feel resentful, controlled, mistreated, abused, and valued as less than men. Today’s society does not look fondly on a man taking power over a woman in any way. Do not misunderstand me or the verses that I quoted above. A woman is, and should be treated as an equal to man. However, even among equals there is always a leader, and in marriage, God intends for the man to be that leader.

If you were to ask any woman, she would readily tell you that she wants to be regarded as equal in value to any man. She wants her voice and her opinions to count for as much as a man. However, these same women would also express that they need to have a strong man in their lives. They need a man that can bring out the best in them. They need a man who can ignite their sexual desires. A woman wants her man to “lead” her and their family to life’s greater purpose.

The challenge for men is to provide leadership for their wife and family in a way that is loving and respectful.

Now you may be wondering what this has to do with affection and sex.

Every man is hard wired for sex, just as every woman is. But we are not designed to think the same way. Men use their mind and logic to guide them through life, where women are guided more by their emotions. A woman needs to be emotionally inspired to desire sex; a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity. Add to that, the masculine and feminine trait that inspires or displaces sexual energy between men and women and it becomes even clearer why a man must take the lead in his marriage and especially when it comes to sexuality.

When a woman loses her affection and sexual desire for her husband, it is most likely because her husband no longer inspires in her the feelings about herself that she needs to have in order to be sexual.

To put it another way; a woman will only be inspired to feel sexual when she feels that she is loved and respected by a quality man who is willing to be the masculine leader in her life.

A man that inspires a woman’s sexuality is a man of values, values based on his conviction of being the man that God wanted him to be, his own belief in himself, his purpose, and his vision of what’s best for him, his wife, his family, and his vision of their future together.

A quality man knows what his wife wants, needs, and desires from life. He is a man that she can trust to “lead” her to the best life for herself, and her family. When he is this man, she will not only follow him, she will open herself up to him emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. He will not have to ask, beg, or manipulate his woman. She will surrender into his open arms with love and enthusiasm.

In closing, I leave you with this quote, Proverbs 1:5 — Let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance.

Warmly,
RDJ


----------



## cb45

RDJ said:


> It is my _opinion_ that sex is a gift from God to be shared between husband and wife. *Funny but i posed a question here in R's & Spirituality concerning whether or not even marriage (as humanity practices it, that is) is even "a gift" or idea from God.
> guess all (so far) are clueless to other possiblities or the "other
> side of the spectrum" of what was really intended back there in
> "the garden of Eden." My revelation(s) have yet to be confirmed tho', so i'll not press the issue here n now but, glad
> u at least said "[*FONT="Comic Sans MS"]_*it is my opinion*"._[/FONT]
> 
> It is also my opinion that sex is a gift that a man gives to a woman, a gift that shows his love, affection, pride, and respect for his woman. *and vice-versa, RDJ*.
> 
> As Christians, most of us are familiar with this quote from the bible.
> Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
> 
> Husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” *This mystery is profound,* and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
> —Ephesians 5:22-33 *Please note the
> underlined boldface. too many christians bypass this hurriedly,
> haphazzardly, or forget to return to it for further study when
> H>S> has pointed out for them to do so. for it was here that
> led me to entertain the notion, the belief, that perhaps God had
> a different plan in mind than was perpetrated after "the tree of
> knowledge debacle of Ha'Adam (mankind folks, get studying, get
> busy...please), and (later to be called) Eve (womankind, ibid).
> What do u think the Serpent taught Eve, that Eve in turn, taught Adam, folks? Pray for H>S> guidance, read it in the
> hebrew(not just watered down &/or english versions) and see what the H>S> reveals to you (but dont forget to ask for courage too people, cuz u'll need it initally for yerself, and then to tell others for sure!)*
> 
> Most Christian men in a sexless marriage are familiar with the first passage quoted above. They see that their wife is not being affectionate, loving and sexual with them, and they feel that she is failing to obey the will of the Lord. She is failing to submit to her husband and the marriage. *And some men go even farther to fear their W has or is cheating on them or contemplating it or, disappointed in choosing him, the H, in the first place, this many yrs after.
> i.e., H's insecurities come to the forefront of his being.*
> 
> However, these men do not seem to put as much stock in the second passage. The Lord commands men to be leaders for their families. They are commanded to love their wives even as they love themselves. How many men can claim to be living up to this passage in our modern society?*Sometimes this is true, sometimes just an "excuse" for W's own selfish behaviors. Even MC's fall into this trap or snare when not seeing clearly thru H>S> eyes/power*.
> 
> When a man finds himself in a marriage where his wife is unaffectionate, unloving, and seldom, if ever sexual, it is not that she is simply being disobedient. She no longer views her husband as the “leader” of their marriage. She no longer views sex with her husband as the “gift” that God intended it to be.
> *I would also argue or add that besides the already aforementioned selfishness that both christian & secular women (men too) can share in this world, methinks many a woman (& again, man too) LOSE their vision of what God intends for them to learn, grow, and sharein their marr'd life on earth. i.e./e.g., Wife = spouse, helper, lover, friend, mother, teacher, etc. We all suffer with some degree of the sinful nature of "self", some more than others methinks.*
> 
> I know what you are thinking; today’s women do not want to be “led”. They feel resentful, controlled, mistreated, abused, and valued as less than men. Today’s society does not look fondly on a man taking power over a woman in any way. Do not misunderstand me or the verses that I quoted above. A woman is, and should be treated as an equal to man. However, even among equals there is always a leader, and in marriage, God intends for the man to be that leader. *agreed, but easier said than done in this "civilized world" we live in, where even God isnt respected (enough).*
> 
> If you were to ask any woman, she would readily tell you that she wants to be regarded as equal in value to any man. She wants her voice and her opinions to count for as much as a man. However, these same women would also express that they need to have a strong man in their lives. They need a man that can bring out the best in them. They need a man who can ignite their sexual desires. A woman wants her man to “lead” her and their family to life’s greater purpose. *Yes, yes, but then as per their hypocritcal natures, they often fight/disrespect their men tooth n nail, almost every step of the way just for boredom, entertainments sake, if not their own dysfunctional upbringings. Why u ask? Just to keep life interesting some will admit (with some coercion most likely) or say (after they tire[if they indeed tire] of the blame-game tactics they too oft employ).*The challenge for men is to provide leadership for their wife and family in a way that is loving and respectful.
> *A challenge yes, because they can no longer enact Ghengis Khan tactics/authority (if nec.) to ensure its delivery and fruition; not with impunity anyways. (as a last resort of course, but unfortunately the Tiger w/out his teeth is just a *****cat, and not respected by anyone, anywhere, anytime, except for the BEST of Best Christian wifes. Selah)*
> 
> Now you may be wondering what this has to do with affection and sex. :scratchhead:
> 
> Every man is hard wired for sex, just as every woman is. But we are not designed to think the same way. Men use their mind and logic to guide them through life, where women are guided more by their emotions. A woman needs to be emotionally inspired to desire sex; a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity. Add to that, the masculine and feminine trait that inspires or displaces sexual energy between men and women and it becomes even clearer why a man must take the lead in his marriage and especially when it comes to sexuality. *This is a generalization that does not, repeat, does NOT apply to many or most W, tho' few will back me up/honestly admit as much. there are many (25%? less? not sure) horny, sexual women out there in the real world, that are just looking to "get off" (like joan rivers says..."can we talk? can we talk?") so to speak, just like many of stereotypical males. I know, cuz back in the day, i knew where/how to find 'em (& it wasnt just bars/clubs either); problem was this:
> tho' it was grrrrrrrrrrrrreat sexually speaking, it wasnt marriage
> material, as no fella (at least) wants to worry about which "handyman" is coming over for "lunch" everyday the H is
> at work, or who shes "doing" in the parking lot (if she works).
> 
> Women on the other hand, are somewhat, (qualify that somewhat however u like) more accepting/tolerant of this (idea in their head) in men as a inbred gene or trait, and willing to "risk it" per se; not all women mind u, but i am trying to explain a difference btwn M & F here. this has been my experience with women and F friends who'll honestly, philosophically discuss such things. Most true Christian W's however, aspire to something more from their man.
> In todays secular world, everybody's trying to "get theirs" in whatever that THEIRs maybe. this is nothing new under the sun
> but, whats new is its ever increasing in numbers or popularity &
> no longer just a "mans world/game".*
> 
> When a woman loses her affection and sexual desire for her husband, it is most likely because her husband no longer inspires in her the feelings about herself that she needs to have in order to be sexual. *THis reality resides mostly in W's head, not nec the real world. more excusatory language perpertrated by female author(s)perhaps?*
> 
> To put it another way; a woman will only be inspired to feel sexual when she feels that she is loved and respected by a *quality* man who is willing to be the masculine leader in her life.
> *i.e., a sugar daddy with deeeeep pockets and plenty of patience
> for all her b.s. games she's gonna play on his (upper) head*.
> A man that inspires a woman’s sexuality is a man of values, values based on his conviction of being the man that God wanted him to be, his own belief in himself, his purpose, and his vision of what’s best for him, his wife, his family, and his vision of their future together. *This is true, at its ideal, its zenith.[/*FONT]
> A quality man knows what his wife wants, needs, and desires from life. He is a man that she can trust to “lead” her to the best life for herself, and her family. When he is this man, she will not only follow him, she will open herself up to him emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. He will not have to ask, beg, or manipulate his woman. She will surrender into his open arms with love and enthusiasm. *U assume too much. OR are u making a declaration? if so, thats
> ok/good. i'm all for Declarations! Yet methinks with all the dysfunctional backgrounds on both sides of the sin aisle, Jesus
> himself has to come in a mighty way to heal the wounds many
> of us re-open on a daily basis. selah.*
> 
> In closing, I leave you with this quote, Proverbs 1:5 — Let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance. *All too true.......all the way around again, no?*Warmly,
> RDJ


----------



## RDJ

CB45,

Methinks  I'm just coming from my own perception, methinks that my perception could even be different tomorrow.

I just thought I would put it out there, as there may bo some that can benifit by a small change of thought.

I enjoyed reading your reply, thanks for your perception.

Warmly,
RDJ


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RDJ said:


> Every man is hard wired for sex, just as every woman is. But we are not designed to think the same way. Men use their mind and logic to guide them through life, where women are guided more by their emotions. A woman needs to be emotionally inspired to desire sex; a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity. Add to that, the masculine and feminine trait that inspires or displaces sexual energy between men and women and it becomes even clearer why a man must take the lead in his marriage and especially when it comes to sexuality.
> 
> When a woman loses her affection and sexual desire for her husband, it is most likely because her husband no longer inspires in her the feelings about herself that she needs to have in order to be sexual.
> 
> To put it another way; a woman will only be inspired to feel sexual when she feels that she is loved and respected by a quality man who is willing to be the masculine leader in her life.
> 
> A man that inspires a woman’s sexuality is a man of values, values based on his conviction of being the man that God wanted him to be, his own belief in himself, his purpose, and his vision of what’s best for him, his wife, his family, and his vision of their future together.
> 
> A quality man knows what his wife wants, needs, and desires from life. He is a man that she can trust to “lead” her to the best life for herself, and her family. When he is this man, she will not only follow him, she will open herself up to him emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. He will not have to ask, beg, or manipulate his woman. She will surrender into his open arms with love and enthusiasm.
> 
> In closing, I leave you with this quote, Proverbs 1:5 — Let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance.


RDJ, excuse me for throwing a monkey wrench into some of your thoughts here. We all have our stories, right ! 

Every woman is hardwired for sex ...hmmmm accually I agree, it is in our natures BUT for some, when religious purity teachings WAR against these very natures & desires in our youth and rock us to the core with shame & guilt about it --all those LUST / FLESH scriptures pounded into us, there can be a very destructive disconnet for some. Thankfully, me & my husband escaped with a more "mild" case of this, it just kept us boring & vanilla, not sexless. 

I wish it would have went as smoothly as you wrote here RDJ. but it just wasn't this black & white, using Scriptures as a guide to More sex , better sex. Our church sure lacked any "Songs of Solomon" commentary sermons while we sat in the Church pew! 

Even my husband admits to feeling a little "dirty" about sex, like it needed to be hidden or something. Yes, even after marraige. If anything in our lives was more of a hinderance to our FREEDOM & enjoyment of each other & confidence to GO THERE in it's pleasurable fullness, it was early indoctrinated religious teachings! I come from a Pentacostal Purity/holiness background. 

I realize this does not happen to the majority by any means, but I DO feel many women have a measure of an issue with "Good girl thinking" that might be one of the biggest hindenances to their marraige, It is not talkied about enough openly & not enough books have been written on it. 

It is something I Had to uproot out of my system -to get where I needed to be, to enjoy my husband in his fullness. I did a thread on this very subject -as it angers me what I feel we missed. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...sets-collide-sexually-repressed-awakened.html

We were constantly told to "put our flesh down"....I remember hearing this constantly in church, like a clanging bell, they sure wasnt' teaching how HOLY sex was within marraige -to balance all of this out. 

Gal 5:16 ...But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

1 John 2:16 : For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world 

Romans 8:6 :For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace

I just don't feel there is a "switch" for turning these beliefs on and off just cause you get married. It just doesn't work that way. 

There is one poster here....her & her BF were Youth leaders, wanted to honor God in every way , but she was tormented by "desire" so she prayed & prayed for it to go away & IT DID -ALL OF IT - right in time for their wedding -they played the purity route- to Gods instructions alright, then when they married, She felt NOTHING, it was DEAD .......4 years of a sexless marraige her husband endured. She had to go to Therapy to overcome, also why she landed here.... Please take a moment to read her 1st post on this page. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/24911-porn-christianity-6.html

This is just another perspective of coarse, even if it is more on the RARE side. I guess some of us take things TOO Seriously, or the wrong way, I don't know, I could never reconcile in my mind what I was being taught to allow getting down & dirty with my own husband. 

I just didn't feel the church was any help to my sexuality- at all. It might have kept me a virgin till my wedding day, but it also helped me remain somewhat of a nun afterwards.


----------



## RDJ

Amorous,

Well said, I appriciate your thoughts.

I have to admit that I had reservations about posting this as there are so many views that can be taken.

But, that is also why I posted it. The great thing about forums like this is all of our different views. We learn from each other.

I realize that my comments were a bit vauge, but there are some that may benefit from just seeing one of our perceptions as a group.

If we help only one person that reads this thread, it was worth it. 

Thank's for your replies,

RDJ


----------



## RoseRed

RDJ

I humbly, yet feverently disagree with your intrepretation of this passage. 

The wife's submission in this passage has NOTHING to do with sex. It about the wife being the like the church (Hence the use of the female term as 'she' in the scripture) and should be deeply respected and the husband to be like Christ, a leader in terms of the leader, as Christ was. In no way shape or form was Christ a sexual analogy. A leader knows how to care and nuture his follower, just as a leader cares for himself. The wife's submission is in TRUST of the leader. As well, the leader also learns from the follower. Such when Christ submitted himself to John (a follower) to be baptized. If a husband cannot love himself, respect himself, like any leader, of course he is not going to have follower.

I agree how much of the remainder of that passage (Ephesians 25 - 33) is glossed over by so many men.

I think a better passage for your purpose in this discussion would be
1 Corinithian 7

1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5* Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer*; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. *6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.* 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.

Sex is a mutual gift from God... and as noted... when difficulties arise, sex is about concessions... not commandments. There is no leader and follower in this realm.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RDJ said:


> I have to admit that I had reservations about posting this as there are so many views that can be taken.


 NEVER have reservations, if you feel strongly about something .........share it !.......... doesn't stop me ! Gets me blasted and judged sometimes but that is OK , I can handle it. What we are all aiming for is a healthy happy marraige ultimately. The destination is the same, even if the road maps sometimes are very different in getting us there to this glorious place. 

Any young marrieds coming here, if they read long enough, devouring posts here - should get a wealth of wisdom to help carry them through thier marriages if they use it. 

I know I have so much to teach my children, so much more than my parents taught me, I pretty near was left to learn from THEIR MISTAKES -what NOT to do. Books were more my mentors growing up. 

Me & my husband aren't Christians anymore, though most of our friends are . Ironically, our oldest son is a Worship Leader / wanna Be Youth Pastor. We both love the debate- he tells me I sharpen him- helps him prepare to deal with Atheists (nice compliment to his Mother ha ha ) , I learn from him also. He respects me, I respect him, but his .....and.... me & his dad's theologies are not the same. 

Even with all of this said , we are still very old Fashioned in so many ways . We are surely out of the box, but who wants to be a cardboard copy of everyone else. It is  to have some originality.  





> But, that is also why I posted it. The great thing about forums like this is all of our different views. We learn from each other.


 :iagree: Wouldn't want it any other way. 




> If we help only one person that reads this thread, it was worth it.


 I feel the same.


----------



## RDJ

RoseRed said:


> I agree how much of the remainder of that passage (Ephesians 25 - 33) is glossed over by so many men.


Apperently I could have done a better job with this post?

I humbly appriciate your comments.

I guess what I was trying to say is this. How many men complain about a non-sexual, non-affectionat wife that could change things by simply going home, being a better man by "leading" through love, understanding, faith, values, and simply "Loving" their wife?

Again, Just my opinion. That and a quarter won't even get a phone call. 

Warmly,

RDJ


----------



## RoseRed

RDJ said:


> Apperently I could have done a better job with this post?
> 
> I humbly appriciate your comments.
> 
> I guess what I was trying to say is this. How many men complain about a non-sexual, non-affectionat wife that could change things by simply going home, being a better man by "leading" through love, understanding, faith, values, and simply "Loving" their wife?
> 
> Again, Just my opinion. That and a quarter won't even get a phone call.
> 
> Warmly,
> 
> RDJ


I truly appreciate your opinions and input! It makes for a very relevent and open dialogue that each one of us can contribute.

The Sanctity of Marriage is very strong in my heart and mind and your addressing Ephesians is VERY VALID!! It does bring home the point that being the leader within a marriage is all about all you spoke of above... not just about bringing home a paycheck, being the financial provider, mowing the lawn,etc. Leadership is NOT by edict, but by love, care and concern for all that follow. For a husband to truly care for a wife's heart, VALUE HER, she will truly respect him!

Kudos to you for your thread... I look foreward to more! 

come to think of it.. I can't even recall where the nearest payphone is anymore!!


----------



## cb45

RDJ said:


> Apperently I could have done a better job with this post?
> 
> I humbly appriciate your comments.
> 
> I guess what I was trying to say is this. How many men complain about a non-sexual, non-affectionat wife that could change things by simply going home, being a better man by "leading" through love, understanding, faith, values, and simply "Loving" their wife?
> 
> Again, Just my opinion. That and a quarter won't even get a phone call.
> 
> Warmly,
> 
> RDJ


Dont take our contrary commentary too hard. for this is just the natural progression
of posting here oftentimes. u know, "iron sharpening iron" scriptures apply especially here.

There is some truth in what u wrote (copied, actually). what the %'s are is part of what i take issue with or question folk on
especially when it sounds/reads like an "absolute" or EXCUSATORY THINKING, especially in this weakened politically 
correct society we live in (here in USA anyways).

I was just trying to convey the frustration many men who are
putting forth the efforts to "give" W's what they need but, 
have little to show for it, so to speak. Too often we read/hear
(the same) goobledeegook about "women need this, women need that," etc.

Life's a two-way street. i feel men have been on the defensive
for soooooo loooooong now, that one can argue that too many
men dont QUITE resemble malehood anymore. (just the old men
in nursing homes, or soon to be in nsg homes perhaps....lol)

And its frustrating to hear/read men "spew" this stuff out, matter of factly, or robotically like, or like they've been "neutered". (or females spayed too, for that matter; yet another thread, perhaps)

"Ya know what i mean jelly-bean?" (old time expression)

no harm, no foul. (oops, there i go again, cant get past cliches today....lol)

shalom.


----------



## RDJ

CB45,
I appriciate your respectful comments. (copied, actually?)

Rosered,

Thanks for your kind words. Please allow me to point out a lesson inside of a lesson using this thread.

I make a comment/statement that I know may recieve some emotional response. I preface my comment with "in my opinion" and I am prepared to hear other views. I don't get offended or hurt by other views,I humbly accept them and I try to learn from them.

The three of you offer a different view, but you also do so in a humble and respectful way.

Through the process, we do NOT build ill feelings or resent. In fact (as far as I am concerned) we have built mutual admiration and respect for each other. Even though we have different views.

Now if more couples could learn to do the same inside of their marriage, there would be far less people on this site.

Warmly and Humbly,

RDJ


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RDJ said:


> The three of you offer a different view, but you also do so in a humble and respectful way.
> 
> Through the process, we do NOT build ill feelings or resent. In fact (as far as I am concerned) we have built mutual admiration and respect for each other. Even though we have different views.
> 
> Now if more couples could learn to do the same inside of their marriage, there would be far less people on this site.


You are so easy to get along with RDJ -- Very true, that goes for Friendships in life too !



Ever hear of this :

:toast:.... *Different Drums and Different Drummers*.... :toast:



> If I do not want what you want, please try not to tell me that my want is wrong.
> 
> Or if I believe other than you, at least pause before you correct my view.
> 
> Or if my emotion is less than yours, or more, given the same circumstances, try not to ask me to feel more strongly or weakly.
> 
> Or yet if I act, or fail to act, in the manner of your design for action, let me be. I do not, for the moment at least, ask you to understand me. That will come only when you are willing to give up changing me into a copy of you.
> 
> If you will allow me any of my own wants, or emotions, or beliefs, or actions, then you open yourself to the possibility that some day these ways of mine might not seem so wrong, and might finally appear as right--- FOR ME. To put up with me is the 1st step to understanding me.
> 
> Not that you embrace my ways as right for you, but that you are no longer irritated or disappointed with me for my seeming waywardness. And in understanding me you might come to prize my differences from you, and, far from seeking to change me, preserve and even nurture those differences.
> 
> I may be your spouse, your parent, your offspring, your friend, or your colleague. But whatever our relation, this I know: You are I are fundamentally different and both of us have to march to our own drummer.


----------



## RDJ

:smthumbup:

Had not seen this before, I sure did enjoy it though.

Thank's

RDJ


----------



## cb45

yes....copied (actually) i said 'cuz yer not the first (nor will be the last) to post/put forth
this "opinion" of yours. copied need not mean, knowingly or plagerism wise.

i.e., many others have preceeded u (again, what the %'s are, who knows?)./SIZE]


----------



## cb45

RDJ said:


> CB45,
> 
> *Methinks * I'm just coming from my own perception, *methinks* that my perception could even be different tomorrow.
> 
> I just thought I would put it out there, as there may bo some that can benifit by a small change of thought.
> 
> I enjoyed reading your reply, thanks for your perception.
> 
> Warmly,
> RDJ


 Hey RDJ, careful with my 
copyrights to "methinks" borrowed...er...."bought" from 
shakespeare for "a song and a dance..." :lol:

i.e., i "own" methinks (get yer own....lol...i know yer j/k'g)


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RDJ said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> Had not seen this before, I sure did enjoy it though.


 It is taken from this Book about our Temperments :

Amazon.com: Please Understand Me: Character and Temperament Types (9780960695409): David Keirsey, Marilyn Bates: Books


----------



## RDJ

CB45,

Thanks for the clarification. and yes I was joking with you.

I have to admit, I like your style. 


You too amorous, thanks!


----------



## Scannerguard

I am a student of Catholic Doctrine (don't practice) and I would have to say I agree with the poster's sentiments and would convict myself:

Guilty as charged.

I know I tend to focus a lot on the concept of consummation within a marriage in a spiritual and legal context but that being said. . .

I definitely failed to lead and failed to inspire in my marriage, which became nearly sexless for almosg 10 years.

I am willing to own this and have accepted that the marriage reached it's conclusion because of that and other than pending legal action she filed against me, wish her well and hope she finds a capable leader.


----------



## RoseRed

Scannerguard said:


> I am a student of Catholic Doctrine (don't practice) and I would have to say I agree with the poster's sentiments and would convict myself:
> 
> Guilty as charged.
> 
> I know I tend to focus a lot on the concept of consummation within a marriage in a spiritual and legal context but that being said. . .
> 
> I definitely failed to lead and failed to inspire in my marriage, which became nearly sexless for almosg 10 years.
> 
> I am willing to own this and have accepted that the marriage reached it's conclusion because of that and other than pending legal action she filed against me, wish her well and hope she finds a capable leader.


As we are all humans, and therefore prone to faults and failings, the most Godly act is your own accountability, for yourself, for your wife and to God. As forgiveness is paramount as well, I pray that your wife can forgive you, as God will as you have repented... and hopefully, you too will find a new companion to prove your repentance and new life in His Word. Within the Christian context, the responsibilities of the husband, as being ultimately Christ-like, is a far greater task than most christian men are able to comprehend or impliment. If man truly believed and followed His Word, and take the role of leadership, as Christ did, I cannot imagine a wife not be in awe and give due to you the utmost respect and honor. All born simply of love, not force, or edict, or intimidation. As in the previous thread, Moral Obligation of Sex... there is NO SUCH THING and an abomination to think any spouse can demand sex!!

best wishes..


----------



## freshstart

Well I couldn't keep up with such long posts t/o but I did get to read the first two from rd and cb. For the most part, I actually agree with you both. It's so refreshing to hear these things and I only wish I had more ppl who thought like this in and around my community to "spread the word" to others. 

For me this is late learned behavior... 2-3 years ago if I would have read this, I would have thought you were totally wrong but now I know better. Thx for posting


----------



## Enchantment

Well, I was finally able to get back to this thread. 

I had posted on here previously, but had deleted it - when I came back and reflected on my post, it was just too long and 'preachy'. 

I do think that the passage from Ephesians is about the special role that a Christian husband has in marriage to be the moral and spiritual leader of his family. If he does a good job with this, his wife will follow him and respect him.

I used to have a terrible time with this passage because I was looking at the wife 'submitting' as her having to do everything that her husband told her to and that really rankled with me. No way was I going to do something that I thought was wrong or detrimental, or from someone who I potentially didn't always respect their leadership. 

But, when I researched where the word 'submission' came from in this passage I found that in Greek it was actually a word describing a leader who has the good, positive qualities that make his warriors want to fight for him. Then the passage took on a different meaning, and the husband's role from this passage really jumped out at me.

I think too many concentrate on the "wife submitting" part and not the rest of the passage.

I've read several of your other posts, RDJ, and have enjoyed them. Thanks for giving me some food for thought, as I have been mulling this around for awhile since seeing this post.

God Bless.


----------



## Zzyzx

What many do not understand about leadership is that in its finest form, leadership is actually about serving the people one leads. Or in other words, being a leader means you have a duty to those you are leading and must exercise care in that duty.


----------



## striving

I sure wish my husband could read your post and take it to heart. The principle you communicate (leaving whether or not Scripture was correctly quoted, etc.) hits it right on the head for me. He gets very frustrated that I don't respond sexually or take any sexual initiatives. If only he would accept (because I do believe he knows that women operate differently!) the differences and work with them. I find it so very hard to respect him (long story) and therefore don't feel any attraction. I'm definitely the leader in the home (I dont want to be) and all the other members depend on me 100%. It's such a great burden that when I get in bed I only want to rest and sleep and take a break from the children and the husband who are so demanding and so take, take, take.

I'm glad you wrote this and I just hope that some men will read it and get what you're saying...and more importantly, do something about it!


----------



## RDJ

Zzyzx, and striving.

All I can say to that is AMEN!

Thanks too all for your kind words and sharing your thoughts.


----------



## cb45

welcome back enchantment.

i like yer avatar alot. for the W (we'll say here) has her 
hands all over her H (for a welcome change!)

my kinda W !

:smthumbup:


----------



## billiam

You know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's one thing that too many people miss about the referenced passages in Ephesians. 

To me, your interpretation focuses disproportionately on the man's obligation and gives the woman too much of a pass on fulfilling hers if he falls short. That ties into the "something" that I think people are missing, and I think that "something" is just another reflection of the Lord's brilliance in how He created us. 

Here's what I'm getting at: for the formula to work, it MUST go both ways, with the mandates applying no matter what. Meaning that neither the man nor the woman is EVER absolved of his or her respective obligation, no matter how much the other spouse may be failing to live up to the mandate. 

Yes, the woman needs the man to be the leader in the home, spiritual and otherwise, in order to fully open up her sexuality. BUT--and here's what I think is missing from your read--the husband MUST be able to express his sexuality with his wife in order to be able to BE the leader she needs! If a man is sexually frustrated, it only adds to and worsens whatever issues or feelings of inadequacy are hindering him from fully stepping to the plate as the leader. 

And even worse, sexual frustration inevitably makes him even LESS able to put his focus where it belongs, on his wife and family. It drives his focus outward, toward other women, immoral thoughts and behaviors, and more. So if a woman think's he's not enough of a man to have sex with, she's helping to shape him into even LESS of a man! It's an amazingly destructive, downward spiral. 

The solution? It lies in the fact that the obligation on both sides remains, no matter what. The man must still strive to be the leader, even when his wife isn't "putting out," if you'll pardon a bit of crudeness. And yet the woman is still obligated to put out, even if she think's he's not stepping to the plate. 

The vicious cycle may break when just ONE of the parties involved decides to make the SACRIFICE of fulfilling the obligation even when the reciprocal is not yet true. Once that happens, the situation has HOPE, with God's help, of improving. It's the only way to stop the downward spiral--when one party realizes that he or she doesn't get a free pass on the obligation. I think that's abundantly clear from both the scripture and from observing human behavior.


----------



## RDJ

billiam said:


> You know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think there's one thing that too many people miss about the referenced passages in Ephesians.
> 
> To me, your interpretation focuses disproportionately on the man's obligation and gives the woman too much of a pass on fulfilling hers if he falls short. That ties into the "something" that I think people are missing, and I think that "something" is just another reflection of the Lord's brilliance in how He created us.
> 
> Here's what I'm getting at: for the formula to work, it MUST go both ways, with the mandates applying no matter what. Meaning that neither the man nor the woman is EVER absolved of his or her respective obligation, no matter how much the other spouse may be failing to live up to the mandate.
> 
> Yes, the woman needs the man to be the leader in the home, spiritual and otherwise, in order to fully open up her sexuality. BUT--and here's what I think is missing from your read--the husband MUST be able to express his sexuality with his wife in order to be able to BE the leader she needs! If a man is sexually frustrated, it only adds to and worsens whatever issues or feelings of inadequacy are hindering him from fully stepping to the plate as the leader.
> 
> And even worse, sexual frustration inevitably makes him even LESS able to put his focus where it belongs, on his wife and family. It drives his focus outward, toward other women, immoral thoughts and behaviors, and more. So if a woman think's he's not enough of a man to have sex with, she's helping to shape him into even LESS of a man! It's an amazingly destructive, downward spiral.
> 
> The solution? It lies in the fact that the obligation on both sides remains, no matter what. The man must still strive to be the leader, even when his wife isn't "putting out," if you'll pardon a bit of crudeness. And yet the woman is still obligated to put out, even if she think's he's not stepping to the plate.
> 
> The vicious cycle may break when just ONE of the parties involved decides to make the SACRIFICE of fulfilling the obligation even when the reciprocal is not yet true. Once that happens, the situation has HOPE, with God's help, of improving. It's the only way to stop the downward spiral--when one party realizes that he or she doesn't get a free pass on the obligation. I think that's abundantly clear from both the scripture and from observing human behavior.


Simply put, I agree!


----------



## billiam

Thanks, RDJ. To go a step further, I think 1 Corinthians 7:5 is the other crucial scripture to full understanding of this topic:

"Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."


----------



## hehasmyheart

This is a question/answer from a website I reference often for religious topics.

Question: "Is it wrong for a married couple to have sex just for pleasure?"

Answer: Almost an entire book in the Old Testament is dedicated to the subject of passion and sex for pleasure. Song of Solomon is so detailed in its intention of sexual pleasure in marriage that allegories were used to tone it down and Hebrew boys couldn't read it until they were 12, when they became men. God clearly intended sex in marriage to be pleasurable. First Corinthians 7:3-5 talks about not abstaining from sex in marriage: "But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. The husband is to fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does, and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

The feelings of sexual longings and pleasure during sex were created by God, and marriage was created to fulfill those longings. What Paul is saying is to direct those feelings to your spouse and no other and make sure that they are fulfilled within your marriage relationship, not outside of it. Notice that Paul says if one of the partners is not living up to his or her spouse’s expectations, whether it be pleasure or time, then both need to bring it before God so that one doesn't try to find fulfillment outside of that marriage relationship. Because of the existence of pornography and the perversion of sex over the years, many people (especially Christians) get the idea that pleasurable sex is wrong. We sometimes forget that God fashioned us for sex and created the emotions to go with it; pleasure was intended. We shouldn’t let Satan and his lies keep us from enjoying our spouses or fall into the counterfeit pleasure of sex that the world offers. God's pleasure is real and satisfying; Satan's is counterfeit and empty.


----------



## old pilot

Religion has a way of ****ing everything up.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

hehasmyheart said:


> Because of the existence of pornography and the perversion of sex over the years, many people (especially Christians) get the idea that pleasurable sex is wrong. We sometimes forget that God fashioned us for sex and created the emotions to go with it; pleasure was intended.


 I also believe it was intended but this idea that we have to be as pure as the driven Snow before marriage is insanity -to me. This is where I feel the seeds of repression are started long before marriage...then the woman finds them very difficult to shake after the vows (for some of us anyway, as these things have been pounded into our psychs).... most especially as people are not marrying young these days.. so years of this struggle has been going on....at least for the honest ones trying to please God, finding it a huge conflict in their minds- wrestling with these raging hormones.

I wouldn't bring Satan into anything, but I surely believe the world goes TOO far with sexuality, too loose/ too casual ... but the church is also way too strict... This is how I will teach my daughter... to reconcile this as I don't want her to grow up as hindered sexually as I was... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...-sex-relation-love-her-emotions-her-life.html

A thread I did on the Christian Purity movement of Today, what they are really teaching.... again, I feel it is "too much", setting them up for a "fall" the majority of the time...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...r-silver-ring-thing-purity-ring-movement.html


----------



## PBear

old pilot said:


> Religion has a way of ****ing everything up.


And you're commenting in the religious section why?

I'm not religious, but from the people quoting scriptures above, it sounds like the bible has the right idea. 

C


----------



## RDJ

hehasmyheart said:


> Question: "Is it wrong for a married couple to have sex just for pleasure?"


HMMMMMM?

I think I would ask if it's wrong for a married couple to have sex for reasons other than "mutual" pleasure?


----------



## vegasruby

RDJ said:


> It is my opinion that sex is a gift from God to be shared between husband and wife.
> 
> It is also my opinion that sex is a gift that a man gives to a woman, a gift that shows his love, affection, pride, and respect for his woman.
> 
> As Christians, most of us are familiar with this quote from the bible.
> Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
> 
> Husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
> —Ephesians 5:22-33
> 
> Most Christian men in a sexless marriage are familiar with the first passage quoted above. They see that their wife is not being affectionate, loving and sexual with them, and they feel that she is failing to obey the will of the Lord. She is failing to submit to her husband and the marriage.
> 
> However, these men do not seem to put as much stock in the second passage. The Lord commands men to be leaders for their families. They are commanded to love their wives even as they love themselves. How many men can claim to be living up to this passage in our modern society?
> 
> When a man finds himself in a marriage where his wife is unaffectionate, unloving, and seldom, if ever sexual, it is not that she is simply being disobedient. She no longer views her husband as the “leader” of their marriage. She no longer views sex with her husband as the “gift” that God intended it to be.
> 
> I know what you are thinking; today’s women do not want to be “led”. They feel resentful, controlled, mistreated, abused, and valued as less than men. Today’s society does not look fondly on a man taking power over a woman in any way. Do not misunderstand me or the verses that I quoted above. A woman is, and should be treated as an equal to man. However, even among equals there is always a leader, and in marriage, God intends for the man to be that leader.
> 
> If you were to ask any woman, she would readily tell you that she wants to be regarded as equal in value to any man. She wants her voice and her opinions to count for as much as a man. However, these same women would also express that they need to have a strong man in their lives. They need a man that can bring out the best in them. They need a man who can ignite their sexual desires. A woman wants her man to “lead” her and their family to life’s greater purpose.
> 
> The challenge for men is to provide leadership for their wife and family in a way that is loving and respectful.
> 
> Now you may be wondering what this has to do with affection and sex.
> 
> Every man is hard wired for sex, just as every woman is. But we are not designed to think the same way. Men use their mind and logic to guide them through life, where women are guided more by their emotions. A woman needs to be emotionally inspired to desire sex; a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity. Add to that, the masculine and feminine trait that inspires or displaces sexual energy between men and women and it becomes even clearer why a man must take the lead in his marriage and especially when it comes to sexuality.
> 
> When a woman loses her affection and sexual desire for her husband, it is most likely because her husband no longer inspires in her the feelings about herself that she needs to have in order to be sexual.
> 
> To put it another way; a woman will only be inspired to feel sexual when she feels that she is loved and respected by a quality man who is willing to be the masculine leader in her life.
> 
> A man that inspires a woman’s sexuality is a man of values, values based on his conviction of being the man that God wanted him to be, his own belief in himself, his purpose, and his vision of what’s best for him, his wife, his family, and his vision of their future together.
> 
> A quality man knows what his wife wants, needs, and desires from life. He is a man that she can trust to “lead” her to the best life for herself, and her family. When he is this man, she will not only follow him, she will open herself up to him emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. He will not have to ask, beg, or manipulate his woman. She will surrender into his open arms with love and enthusiasm.
> 
> In closing, I leave you with this quote, Proverbs 1:5 — Let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance.
> 
> Warmly,
> RDJ


This is a lecture.


----------



## RDJ

vegasruby said:


> This is a lecture.


Sorry you feel that way.

Allow me to say that most marriages I know that live this way. Are happy!


----------



## vegasruby

RDJ said:


> Sorry you feel that way.
> 
> Allow me to say that most marriages I know that live this way. Are happy!


It was a lecture


----------



## RDJ

vegasruby said:


> It was a lecture


Shall I assume you won't be making a contribution?


----------



## vegasruby

RDJ said:


> It is my opinion that sex is a gift from God to be shared between husband and wife.
> 
> It is also my opinion that sex is a gift that a man gives to a woman, a gift that shows his love, affection, pride, and respect for his woman.
> 
> As Christians, most of us are familiar with this quote from the bible.
> Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
> 
> Husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
> —Ephesians 5:22-33
> 
> Most Christian men in a sexless marriage are familiar with the first passage quoted above. They see that their wife is not being affectionate, loving and sexual with them, and they feel that she is failing to obey the will of the Lord. She is failing to submit to her husband and the marriage.
> 
> However, these men do not seem to put as much stock in the second passage. The Lord commands men to be leaders for their families. They are commanded to love their wives even as they love themselves. How many men can claim to be living up to this passage in our modern society?
> 
> When a man finds himself in a marriage where his wife is unaffectionate, unloving, and seldom, if ever sexual, it is not that she is simply being disobedient. She no longer views her husband as the “leader” of their marriage. She no longer views sex with her husband as the “gift” that God intended it to be.
> 
> I know what you are thinking; today’s women do not want to be “led”. They feel resentful, controlled, mistreated, abused, and valued as less than men. Today’s society does not look fondly on a man taking power over a woman in any way. Do not misunderstand me or the verses that I quoted above. A woman is, and should be treated as an equal to man. However, even among equals there is always a leader, and in marriage, God intends for the man to be that leader.
> 
> If you were to ask any woman, she would readily tell you that she wants to be regarded as equal in value to any man. She wants her voice and her opinions to count for as much as a man. However, these same women would also express that they need to have a strong man in their lives. They need a man that can bring out the best in them. They need a man who can ignite their sexual desires. A woman wants her man to “lead” her and their family to life’s greater purpose.
> 
> The challenge for men is to provide leadership for their wife and family in a way that is loving and respectful.
> 
> Now you may be wondering what this has to do with affection and sex.
> 
> Every man is hard wired for sex, just as every woman is. But we are not designed to think the same way. Men use their mind and logic to guide them through life, where women are guided more by their emotions. A woman needs to be emotionally inspired to desire sex; a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity. Add to that, the masculine and feminine trait that inspires or displaces sexual energy between men and women and it becomes even clearer why a man must take the lead in his marriage and especially when it comes to sexuality.
> 
> When a woman loses her affection and sexual desire for her husband, it is most likely because her husband no longer inspires in her the feelings about herself that she needs to have in order to be sexual.
> 
> To put it another way; a woman will only be inspired to feel sexual when she feels that she is loved and respected by a quality man who is willing to be the masculine leader in her life.
> 
> A man that inspires a woman’s sexuality is a man of values, values based on his conviction of being the man that God wanted him to be, his own belief in himself, his purpose, and his vision of what’s best for him, his wife, his family, and his vision of their future together.
> 
> A quality man knows what his wife wants, needs, and desires from life. He is a man that she can trust to “lead” her to the best life for herself, and her family. When he is this man, she will not only follow him, she will open herself up to him emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. He will not have to ask, beg, or manipulate his woman. She will surrender into his open arms with love and enthusiasm.
> 
> In closing, I leave you with this quote, Proverbs 1:5 — Let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance.
> 
> Warmly,
> RDJ


My reason for not having sex is not because I am not being obedient. It is that I don't want to have sex. I do not see it as a gift. A gift to me would be stop demanding sex or at least stop with the drama of long drawn out sex. I am well familiar with your line of thinking. You are not alone.


----------



## RDJ

vegasruby said:


> My reason for not having sex is not because I am not being obedient. It is that I don't want to have sex. I do not see it as a gift. A gift to me would be stop demanding sex or at least stop with the drama of long drawn out sex. I am well familiar with your line of thinking. You are not alone.


I understand that very well. With all due respect. If your marriage/sex is only about what you want..... What you feel...

Then it's not a mutual marriage.

That being said. If it can't be mutual, It' can't be mutually happy?

We reap what we sow, do we not?


----------



## vegasruby

RDJ said:


> I understand that very well. With all due respect. If your marriage/sex is only about what you want..... What you feel...
> 
> Then it's not a mutual marriage.
> 
> That being said. If it can't be mutual, It' can't be mutually happy?
> 
> We reap what we sow, do we not?


My husband is happy with our marriage. We get along great. Great communication. He loves me to death. He just wants more sex.


----------



## RDJ

vegasruby said:


> My husband is happy with our marriage. We get along great. Great communication. He loves me to death. He just wants more sex.


Maybe he needs you to help him lead?

Maybe you desire more affection, more romance, more seduction, more emotional connection?

Maybe he does not understand or know what youi need?

Maybe you need to express to him what you need and help him to meet you on your level?

I don't know, I'm not in your home. I can say that once my wife expressed what she needed in a way that did not attack my boyish ego. We had mutual ground to work from?

Have you expressed what you would like and how he could help you to get there? Have you expressed that he is important to you and that you are interested in finding a mutually happy way of moving forward?


----------



## RDJ

No response? Did I somehow offend you?

Please allow me to take another perspective.

"My husband is happy with our marriage. We get along great. Great communication. He loves me to death. He just wants more sex."

He is happy, you get along great, you communicate, he loves you to death. So is he a selfish man by wanting to have sex/ wanting to express his desire for the woman he loves, the woman he married, the woman he should be having sex with?

He is the man that God made him. He has a need and desire to have sex. What man does not?

Drama of long drawn out? Could it be that he wants to make love to his wife. Would you prefer a wham bam thank you mam? If so, what message would you send him, how would this create mutual happiness, and for how long before resent creeps into your marriage?

Just asking?


----------



## Maricha75

RDJ said:


> No response? Did I somehow offend you?
> 
> Please allow me to take another perspective.
> 
> "My husband is happy with our marriage. We get along great. Great communication. He loves me to death. He just wants more sex."
> 
> He is happy, you get along great, you communicate, he loves you to death. So is he a selfish man by wanting to have sex/ wanting to express his desire for the woman he loves, the woman he married, the woman he should be having sex with?
> 
> He is the man that God made him. He has a need and desire to have sex. What man does not?
> 
> Drama of long drawn out? Could it be that he wants to make love to his wife. Would you prefer a wham bam thank you mam? If so, what message would you send him, how would this create mutual happiness, and for how long before resent creeps into your marriage?
> 
> Just asking?


RDJ, vegasruby was banned. Perhaps she will be back in a few days. I'm not sure. But you won't get a response, yet, until the ban is lifted.


----------



## RDJ

Maricha75 said:


> RDJ, vegasruby was banned. Perhaps she will be back in a few days. I'm not sure. But you won't get a response, yet, until the ban is lifted.


I noticed that after posting. But I thank you for your kind response.


----------



## Tasorundo

As I read this thread and the conversation between RDJ and Vegas, I cannot help but think of my own marriage.

I think my wife would answer much like Vegas has, however she might not sound as heartless as I read Vegas's responses.

One thing I cannot seem to explain to her is that having sex with her isnt about the finish. It is about the moment, about being in the moment together, completely and wholly devoted to what is going on.

It is like when a wife wants her husband to go shopping with her. She does not want him to go so he can plan the most efficient way to get what is needed and return home. She wants to spend the time with him! It isnt about whether or not you bought anything at all!

Men get boiled down into a desire to ejaculate and watch sports. Ultimately I think we all crave intimacy, we just get it in different ways.


----------



## Jellybeans

You have to love the posters that try to dredge up an dead thread with comments like "this is a lecture" and are subsequently banned.


----------



## soc487

RDJ said:


> It is my opinion that sex is a gift from God to be shared between husband and wife.
> 
> When a man finds himself in a marriage where his wife is unaffectionate, unloving, and seldom, if ever sexual, it is not that she is simply being disobedient. She no longer views her husband as the “leader” of their marriage. She no longer views sex with her husband as the “gift” that God intended it to be.
> 
> I know what you are thinking; today’s women do not want to be “led”. They feel resentful, controlled, mistreated, abused, and valued as less than men. Today’s society does not look fondly on a man taking power over a woman in any way. Do not misunderstand me or the verses that I quoted above. A woman is, and should be treated as an equal to man. However, even among equals there is always a leader, and in marriage, God intends for the man to be that leader.
> 
> If you were to ask any woman, she would readily tell you that she wants to be regarded as equal in value to any man. She wants her voice and her opinions to count for as much as a man. However, these same women would also express that they need to have a strong man in their lives. They need a man that can bring out the best in them. They need a man who can ignite their sexual desires. A woman wants her man to “lead” her and their family to life’s greater purpose.
> 
> The challenge for men is to provide leadership for their wife and family in a way that is loving and respectful.
> 
> When a woman loses her affection and sexual desire for her husband, it is most likely because her husband no longer inspires in her the feelings about herself that she needs to have in order to be sexual.
> 
> To put it another way; a woman will only be inspired to feel sexual when she feels that she is loved and respected by a quality man who is willing to be the masculine leader in her life.
> 
> A man that inspires a woman’s sexuality is a man of values, values based on his conviction of being the man that God wanted him to be, his own belief in himself, his purpose, and his vision of what’s best for him, his wife, his family, and his vision of their future together.
> 
> A quality man knows what his wife wants, needs, and desires from life. He is a man that she can trust to “lead” her to the best life for herself, and her family. When he is this man, she will not only follow him, she will open herself up to him emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. He will not have to ask, beg, or manipulate his woman. She will surrender into his open arms with love and enthusiasm.
> 
> Warmly,
> RDJ



This pretty much confirms what I had already concluded: The reason she was not affectionate and sexual was entirely because of my own failings as a man. Failure to live up to the kind of man that would have inspired and led her. And all the time I thought I was being respectful of her feelings and choices. And all the time it seems that was a big turn off for her. Even on the wedding night she was begrudging. I must be just plain uninspiring as a man. Not a "quality man".


----------



## soc487

It's difficult to go from zero to hero as quick as you can say "I do".

Just as it's difficult to turn what is essentially a pre-marital platonic friendship into a full sexual partnership. the longer you know your partner before marriage, successfully overcoming natural desires, the more those habits of abstinence are ingrained and become the basis for the relationship. Don't be surprised then if it turns out that one of you only wanted that kind of relationship all along, and you never realised that before marriage while practising all that God-pleasing restraint. A BIG disappointment. And now you're locked in to a lifetime of enforced celibacy.


----------



## Weathered

Nothing is ever locked in, but change is only convincing to the spouse with fruits bearing this change. i.e. it will take some time for her to be convinced that you could be the man she wishes to be inspired and led by. If you are willing, and she is obliging to your will to change, then it is not all lost yet.


----------



## Weathered

Tasorundo said:


> Men get boiled down into a desire to ejaculate and watch sports. Ultimately I think we all crave intimacy, we just get it in different ways.


Not all men want the sex to come to climax as fast as they establish an erection. Some men want intimacy too, and indeed this is a biblical virtue that says to his beloved spouse that he values her not just for what she offers him.

Wives are encouraged to give the gift of sex to their husbands as much as the husbands are encouraged to love and cherish their wives as they do themselves (and their sports, if that is applicable...)


----------



## LonelyinLove

I agree with you, in part. I also agree with Rose.

Both the hubs and I were raised Southern Baptist...taught the wait until marriage thing but the marriage bed was scared and as long as both agreed, most sexual things were okay.

As for the man being the leader, that is very sexually arousing for many women.

I spent many years trying to be the leader because that is what I saw at home. My grandmother (who raised me) totally domineered my grandfather. That's what I knew as normal.

My hubs was the spoiled baby of the family and was perfectly content to let me be in control of the finances, fight the battles with zoning, etc, and deal with school and most other hard issues.

One day I remember telling him I was tired of being the man. He didn't get it.

In July of 2011 I had a stroke and was diagnosed with a heart issue that required open heart surgery. We had 2 kids in elementary school, a home and pets to take care of.

Did I mention I was as LD was you could get? I was so stressed and tired (and sick, but I didn't know it) that sex was the furthest thing from my mind.

At this point DH HAD to man up. He took over the bills, took over running the household, and when I came home from the hospital, he took care of me. Very well I might add.

As I recovered, my libido EXPLODED. It just wasn't that I was healthy again, it was that my man had become the leader in our home, I felt safe and secure in his leadership.

Poor guy can't get any rest now, either, because I'm always amorous


----------



## RDJ

LonelyinLove said:


> I agree with you, in part. I also agree with Rose.
> 
> Both the hubs and I were raised Southern Baptist...taught the wait until marriage thing but the marriage bed was scared and as long as both agreed, most sexual things were okay.
> 
> As for the man being the leader, that is very sexually arousing for many women.
> 
> I spent many years trying to be the leader because that is what I saw at home. My grandmother (who raised me) totally domineered my grandfather. That's what I knew as normal.
> 
> My hubs was the spoiled baby of the family and was perfectly content to let me be in control of the finances, fight the battles with zoning, etc, and deal with school and most other hard issues.
> 
> One day I remember telling him I was tired of being the man. He didn't get it.
> 
> In July of 2011 I had a stroke and was diagnosed with a heart issue that required open heart surgery. We had 2 kids in elementary school, a home and pets to take care of.
> 
> Did I mention I was as LD was you could get? I was so stressed and tired (and sick, but I didn't know it) that sex was the furthest thing from my mind.
> 
> At this point DH HAD to man up. He took over the bills, took over running the household, and when I came home from the hospital, he took care of me. Very well I might add.
> 
> As I recovered, my libido EXPLODED. It just wasn't that I was healthy again, it was that my man had become the leader in our home, I felt safe and secure in his leadership.
> 
> Poor guy can't get any rest now, either, because I'm always amorous


Now that's what I'm talking about


----------



## eyuop

SimplyAmorous said:


> I just didn't feel the church was any help to my sexuality- at all. It might have kept me a virgin till my wedding day, but it also helped me remain somewhat of a nun afterwards.


I'm sorry this is the case. It wasn't for me and my wife. Yes, she was a lot more conservative sexually than some women (we were both virgins until after our wedding vows) but we have grown past a lot of that stuff. And she doesn't blame the church, but rather more her parents for not talking about sex and being open about it. The Bible has done wonders for my sexuality. Song of Songs -- hot stuff! The whole thing about the marriage bed being pure and how Paul said not to abstain for too long from your spouse -- good stuff!


----------



## bandit.45

Song of Solomon is a smack in the face to all who say religion tries to suppress sexuality. On the contrary. Solomon knew how to seduce a woman. His was the first true written erotic literature, but it was also God inspired. God created us to be sexual creatures and enjoy or spouses sexually to the fullest extent possible. Sex is the physical earthly representation of the selfless love a deep emotional relationship between God and the Church.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bbird1

I do not understand a Christians want to rule his house. My wife is boss in our home. Why? because she is special to me and i honor and respect her as I should. I have a biblical responsibility to provide a role model for our children, love and honor my wife, provide for the needs of my family. But not be my wifes' master.

In a Jewish wedding which Christians base weddings on the wife promises to love, honor and obey. The husband promises to love, honor, cherish, respect and provide for her every need. A husband who honors his wife would not see her as a servant. If he respects his wife he would not pretend to be boss. If he cherishes her he would never ask of her what is immoral. 

In public my wife steps back and lets the world see a strong male role model leading his family. When in reality we are partners and she is the one who rules the roost and I enforce her desires. She would never allow me in person to be seen as weak or lose face in front of others (though this doesn't matter to me). I would never allow the slightest disrespect to my wife from anyone. 

Maybe this is why you are sexless in your Christian marriages. You see your wife as less than you and someone you should command. A GOOD Jewish family (which Jesus Christ himself grew up in and refused even to death to deny) the mother leads the family in all things inside the home. The man is the representative outside the home and as such must lead a life which will not bring shame to his family. Outside the home to not appear weak the man in a Jewish family is the boss. He decides how to earn money, where to live and how to provide for the needs of his family. All the while in the home mother leads the prayers, mother teaches the children, mother run the house and ALL THINGS under it's roof. Try living the family life of Jesus and you may find yourself happier and with more sex. We live this way and I get sex 4 or 8 times a week and she initiates more than half the time. She is a content, respected and strong woman and the role model for our daughter. I am the role model of how a man treats his wife for my sons AND my daughter.

Good luck with your view which differs from the Jewish biblical reality. Though your faith USED to be based on Judaism and if i am not mistaken the old testament is still within your reading of the good book.

Here is some non-christian advice for you who seek to rule your wife. "If momma ain't happy, ain't no body happy."


----------



## bbird1

PS Jewish divorce is this you divorce your wife (other than infidelity) and she gets it ALL! You keep the shirt on your back and nothing more. If she leaves her husband (same thing on infidelity) he gets it all.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

bbird1 said:


> I do not understand a Christians want to rule his house. My wife is boss in our home. Why? because she is special to me and i honor and respect her as I should. I have a biblical responsibility to provide a role model for our children, love and honor my wife, provide for the needs of my family. But not be my wifes' master.


I had to read that twice to really understand what you mean. 

I think you have a good example here. Would I be correct in thinking that such a husband, of which you describe yourself-- delineates the home matters inside the 4 walls to his wife? 

I think that I took a similar approach when I married Sarah, my bride. It seemed to make perfect sense to lovingly say to her that I hoped that she would be the "secretary of the interior" as I put it then and put it now. 

To this day, I don't care one lick about the inside workings of our house except that it meet her standards. I help her as much as possible in that. I really only care that she feel fulfilled and validated in the way she keeps our home... And, I am willing to do anything to help reach that goal.


----------



## Weathered

This, in the end, is a lesson in honour. Honouring your spouse means you have him/her and his/her welfare at the forefront of your mind. And this is a big part of a happy marriage.


----------



## Rough Patch Sewing

Weathered said:


> This, in the end, is a lesson in honour. Honouring your spouse means you have him/her and his/her welfare at the forefront of your mind. And this is a big part of a happy marriage.


Well said!


----------



## over20

RDJ said:


> CB45,
> 
> Methinks  I'm just coming from my own perception, methinks that my perception could even be different tomorrow.
> 
> I just thought I would put it out there, as there may bo some that can benifit by a small change of thought.
> 
> I enjoyed reading your reply, thanks for your perception.
> 
> Warmly,
> RDJ


Do you have a specific question? 

I want to reassure you that not all women Christian women are "prudes".

I am a Christian woman and have known a lot of Christian women that are total cold wives to their husbands. Some of them have put God's holy Scripture in their husbands face. It is very wrong..

Our Almighty gave and instilled in both male and female a deep need for sexual intimacy. It is very wrong and actually sinful for a wife to neglect her husband's sexual needs. 

The very sad issue is that there is never any sermon addressing this very issue in Christian marriages, yet the same church strongly criticizes couples on divorce due to lack of sexual relations. I truly think Christian men are the most unhappy and unfilled people and it breaks my heart


----------



## DTO

RoseRed said:


> *6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.* 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
> 
> Sex is a mutual gift from God... and as noted... when difficulties arise, sex is about concessions... not commandments. There is no leader and follower in this realm.


I know this is an old thread, but for anyone who might be reading it...

The marrying / taking a sexual partner is the optional part. Paul is telling the Corinthians that he wishes they were like him (unmarried), because unmarried people can devote themselves to the things of God whereas married people have to devote themselves to the things of the world.

What you are suggesting is a contradiction. You can't have "do not deprive" (wich has a connotation of withholding from someone that which he or she is due) followed by "it's a suggestion" (so go ahead and deprive if you feel like it).

IMO, the clear meaning of the whole passage is that all (men and women alike) owe sex to their spouses. And that sex needs to be of a sufficient quality and quantity that our spouses are satisfied (so you are not tempted to sin).

If you don't have sexual cravings, stay single and serve God. If the lack of sexual craving is not your "gift" (meaning, such a lack is not the norm) go ahead and marry to avoid sin. But know that since condoned sex is a primary reason to marry, you marry with the understanding that you are making a commitment to your spouse to fulfill that need.


----------



## FF4Christ

I am new here and reading this thread has been very enlightening. RDJ, I appreciate your thoughts as I do ALL the others. I am currently in a sexless marriage but it is due to my own sins and not being the husband and father my wife deserves. I am currently working very hard and trying to form new habits to be a better husband and father and being the best I can. I make no excuses. It is mostly my doing. I am giving my wife the space she needs and not even bringing sex up in conversation. I am putting myself last and my wife and children first and doing much better at respecting her wishes and desires for our family. My problems are in the past but not necessarily for her and that is what we are working on. I have a very clear plan and each day is another opportunity to SHOW my wife I love her. So for now, I will say again thank you to everyone posting here but it is time for me to get busy with my chores. I pray God's blessings for you all.


----------



## over20

Welcome! You sound very humble, keep us posted as you progress!

Blessings


----------



## over20

bandit.45 said:


> Song of Solomon is a smack in the face to all who say religion tries to suppress sexuality. On the contrary. Solomon knew how to seduce a woman. His was the first true written erotic literature, but it was also God inspired. God created us to be sexual creatures and enjoy or spouses sexually to the fullest extent possible. Sex is the physical earthly representation of the selfless love a deep emotional relationship between God and the Church.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for posting this....you are correct. I have often thought if God devoted a whole book of the Bible to speak or MARITAL sex, it must be pretty darn important. What I love about the Songs is that male and female enjoy and initiate sex with each other equally. It's not just the male pursuing the female.


----------



## wanttolove

RDJ said:


> Every man is hard wired for sex, just as every woman is. .... A woman needs to be emotionally inspired to desire sex; *a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity*.
> 
> To put it another way; a woman will only be inspired to feel sexual when she feels that she is loved and respected by a *quality* man who is willing to be the masculine leader in her life.
> 
> 
> A *quality* man knows what his wife wants, needs, and desires from life.


Hogwash. 

Saying that a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity is simply not true, especially when it comes to husbands and ones who have been faithfully around for a while. That man is stimulated by affection and a respect that does not need to be earned.. he does not have to try to reach that standard of "quality", a bar set so high (especially in the Christian community) that any normal man can not reach.

So I have to say HOGWASH to your post.


----------



## wanttolove

DTO said:


> IMO, the clear meaning of the whole passage is that all (men and women alike) owe sex to their spouses. And that sex needs to be of a sufficient quality and quantity that our spouses are satisfied (so you are not tempted to sin).


Close but not quite. Paul is speaking to believers in Corinth, a place where sex and prostitutes was pagan worship. Sex was readily and easily available. It was better to be married there and for spouses to satisfy each other because the temptation was so great. It had nothing to do with a spouse owing sex to the other.


----------



## RDJ

wanttolove said:


> Hogwash.
> 
> Saying that a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity is simply not true, especially when it comes to husbands and ones who have been faithfully around for a while. That man is stimulated by affection and a respect that does not need to be earned.. he does not have to try to reach that standard of "quality", a bar set so high (especially in the Christian community) that any normal man can not reach.
> 
> So I have to say HOGWASH to your post.


I respect your opinion and there is certainly no "absolute" in my statements. But I will say that I stand by my comments based on my experience with many.

Thanks for reading my post and sharing your thoughts.


----------



## Tasorundo

Wanttolove, are we not believers in a culture where sex is readily and easily available?


----------



## RDJ

Tasorundo said:


> Wanttolove, are we not believers in a culture where sex is readily and easily available?


Maybe more outside of marriage than in ?


----------



## Lordhavok

wh*redom seems to be running rampant these days


----------



## wanttolove

Tasorundo said:


> Wanttolove, are we not believers in a culture where sex is readily and easily available?


We definitely are. And it's good reason for spouses to consider that temptation in regards to their spouse. It does not mean sex is OWED.


----------



## Tasorundo

So what word do you prefer? Clearly it is saying something and that something is stronger than a saying it would be nice if they had sex with their spouse.


----------



## Zatol Ugot?

If not OWED, maybe:


duty to
responsibility for
encouraged to
expected of
assumed to provide
obliged to

?????????????


----------



## wanttolove

Zatol Ugot? said:


> If not OWED, maybe:
> 
> 
> duty to
> responsibility for
> encouraged to
> expected of
> assumed to provide
> obliged to
> 
> ?????????????


Out of that list, my understanding of what Paul says in I Corinthians 6 and 7 is 'encouraged to'. What Paul says about Corinth in his day definitely describes at least America, the availability of some form of sex to anyone who wants it. Taking care of your spouse is both a physical and .
 safe guard.

My wife asked me, after a few years of no sex or affection in our relationship, if I was having an affair. She did not ask because she had any evidence that I was, but because I could easily have one and had reason because she had cut me off! Temptation is the same today as it was in Paul's day, it just looks a little different and has taken on different forms due to technology.


----------



## ifimbeinghonest

RDJ said:


> It is my opinion that sex is a gift from God to be shared between husband and wife.
> 
> It is also my opinion that sex is a gift that a man gives to a woman, a gift that shows his love, affection, pride, and respect for his woman.
> 
> As Christians, most of us are familiar with this quote from the bible.
> Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
> 
> Husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
> —Ephesians 5:22-33
> 
> Most Christian men in a sexless marriage are familiar with the first passage quoted above. They see that their wife is not being affectionate, loving and sexual with them, and they feel that she is failing to obey the will of the Lord. She is failing to submit to her husband and the marriage.
> 
> However, these men do not seem to put as much stock in the second passage. The Lord commands men to be leaders for their families. They are commanded to love their wives even as they love themselves. How many men can claim to be living up to this passage in our modern society?
> 
> When a man finds himself in a marriage where his wife is unaffectionate, unloving, and seldom, if ever sexual, it is not that she is simply being disobedient. She no longer views her husband as the “leader” of their marriage. She no longer views sex with her husband as the “gift” that God intended it to be.
> 
> I know what you are thinking; today’s women do not want to be “led”. They feel resentful, controlled, mistreated, abused, and valued as less than men. Today’s society does not look fondly on a man taking power over a woman in any way. Do not misunderstand me or the verses that I quoted above. A woman is, and should be treated as an equal to man. However, even among equals there is always a leader, and in marriage, God intends for the man to be that leader.
> 
> If you were to ask any woman, she would readily tell you that she wants to be regarded as equal in value to any man. She wants her voice and her opinions to count for as much as a man. However, these same women would also express that they need to have a strong man in their lives. They need a man that can bring out the best in them. They need a man who can ignite their sexual desires. A woman wants her man to “lead” her and their family to life’s greater purpose.
> 
> The challenge for men is to provide leadership for their wife and family in a way that is loving and respectful.
> 
> Now you may be wondering what this has to do with affection and sex.
> 
> Every man is hard wired for sex, just as every woman is. But we are not designed to think the same way. Men use their mind and logic to guide them through life, where women are guided more by their emotions. A woman needs to be emotionally inspired to desire sex; a man needs nothing more than a mental vision to desire sexual activity. Add to that, the masculine and feminine trait that inspires or displaces sexual energy between men and women and it becomes even clearer why a man must take the lead in his marriage and especially when it comes to sexuality.
> 
> When a woman loses her affection and sexual desire for her husband, it is most likely because her husband no longer inspires in her the feelings about herself that she needs to have in order to be sexual.
> 
> To put it another way; a woman will only be inspired to feel sexual when she feels that she is loved and respected by a quality man who is willing to be the masculine leader in her life.
> 
> A man that inspires a woman’s sexuality is a man of values, values based on his conviction of being the man that God wanted him to be, his own belief in himself, his purpose, and his vision of what’s best for him, his wife, his family, and his vision of their future together.
> 
> A quality man knows what his wife wants, needs, and desires from life. He is a man that she can trust to “lead” her to the best life for herself, and her family. When he is this man, she will not only follow him, she will open herself up to him emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. He will not have to ask, beg, or manipulate his woman. She will surrender into his open arms with love and enthusiasm.
> 
> In closing, I leave you with this quote, Proverbs 1:5 — Let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance.
> 
> Warmly,
> RDJ


Wow! Thanks for sharing. 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


----------

