# When the WS Ignores BS Warnings



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Every BS has different aspects of affairs that really trigger/anger them.

For me it is this, probably because it was a major factor of my anger when I broke up with my LTgf after busting her cheating:

The BS gives the WS a SPECIFIC warning about the future AP.....they see the Red Flags and DON’T blow them off, but address them well before the A.....and the WS SWEARS there is nothing going on/no interest.....and maybe even acts offended that their partner doesn’t trust them.

Only to later find out the AP is the specific scumbag they warned the WS about in the first place.

In my case, my LTgf was very depressed because her dad had died a month before.

I KNEW her POS co-worker was being a sleeze trying to use her grief to get in her pants.....she insisted that he was just being a good friend showing her sympathy because of her mourning, and besides she had zero attraction to him and no interest.

I never bought it really....but we continued on, including making initial plans for our wedding the following year (she knew I had already bought the ring she had picked out).....in fact, the only reason we were not officially engaged at the time was I didn’t want to formally propose to her during her dad’s final few months of life (he died of Lou Gehrig’s Disease).....but she had actually told him in his final days not to worry about her because she was marrying me and would be OK.

About two months later, one of my friends busted her out at a club with POSOM making out.....when she had told me she was working late.

POSOM.....the EXACT same slimeball I had told her was after nothing more than sex a short time before.

And sure enough, I was right....not only about his intentions, but the fact he only wanted into her pants.

I was furious and dumped her immediately.......OM was single, but I got ahold of him and angrily told him he was due an ass kicking if I ever saw him.

He dumped her instantly......refused to see her again and soon moved to another job.

What brought this on?

I guess I got a little deja vu from the recent thread from the poster who has a writer W who is telling him that all of the contacts she has with male writers are above board, even though he can see with his own eyes the constant attempts in messages/emails by these scumbags to entice her into an A and meet up with them one on one.

I really hope he doesn’t have the same outcome I did many years ago.....

Like I said at the beginning......few things p*ss me off more than a WS who is SPECIFICALLY warned about a scummy orbiter......and then the BS finds out that the WS went ahead and had the A with that exact POS anyway.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

From what I've seen once they start down that wayward path nothing can stop the slide.

You're better off to get out if the way and let them go permanently. Like you did.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> From what I've seen once they start down that wayward path nothing can stop the slide.


It's almost like inevitable outcome. Regardless of warnings, circumstances, even the complete knowledge they will get caught.... something in the brain becomes "wired" to respond.....



Dyokemm said:


> The BS gives the WS a SPECIFIC warning about the future AP.....they see the Red Flags and DON’T blow them off, but address them well before the A.....and the WS SWEARS there is nothing going on/no interest.....and maybe even acts offended that their partner doesn’t trust them.


Yep, "gaslighting" begins in the WS. And, also, from what I've seen, the BS accepts that "...maybe I'm crazy..."... because he/she doesn't have evidence, he/she gives the WS the "benefit of the doubt"..... and, it's a mistake.....


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

TJW said:


> And, also, from what I've seen, the BS accepts that "...maybe I'm crazy..."... because he/she doesn't have evidence, he/she gives the WS the "benefit of the doubt"


Another thing though is that the BS will believe the reassurances, because he/she can see that the suspected AP is so clearly less of a good prospect than themselves!


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Well OP, you've worked very very hard to convince yourself that your ex GF was completely _victimized_ and had absolutely NO accountability for her low life behavior. It was all the scummy guy's fault, *he's* the POS who took advantage of the poor grieving damsel in distress, *he's* the predator you 'warned' her about and she's so innocent and virtuous that she never knew what hit her.

Therefore, I'm left to assume that Mr. Predator showed up at her house, held a *gun* to her head, told her to get into her club finery, forced her to call you and tell you that she was "working late," marched her out to the car and drove her to the club, and then forced her to sit at the club and make out with him at gunpoint, unaware that your friend was watching them. 

I mean, I HAVE to assume that from the picture you painted of your ex being victimized. 

Truth is, she's *100% responsible for why you broke up*. He wasn't your problem. SHE was. 

Accountability, folks. It's about simple *accountability*. If a woman is THAT easily led into bed by some smooth-talking fool, then she did you a favor by doing it *before* you married her. I'd be thanking my lucky stars instead of trying so HARD to blame the guy.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> From what I've seen once they start down that wayward path nothing can stop the slide.
> 
> You're better off to get out if the way and let them go permanently. Like you did.


Yes.
Especially a WW.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Every BS has different aspects of affairs that really trigger/anger them.
> 
> For me it is this, probably because it was a major factor of my anger when I broke up with my LTgf after busting her cheating:
> 
> ...


What did she have to say for herself?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There's one reason why the potential WS does not heed the warnings. Their self esteem is so poor that they don't grasp the concept that someone else might find them even the slightest bit attractive.

It's happened to me. Women have been hitting on me and because I knew how unattractive I was, I thought I was magically protected. Why would anyone fancy me, right?

This flawed thinking actually helped propel me into my stupid, drunken revenge affair and nearly caused disaster again with another friend, but I was more clued up and managed to extricate myself from the situation without any problems.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well OP, you've worked very very hard to convince yourself that your ex GF was completely _victimized_ and had absolutely NO accountability for her low life behavior. It was all the scummy guy's fault, *he's* the POS who took advantage of the poor grieving damsel in distress, *he's* the predator you 'warned' her about and she's so innocent and virtuous that she never knew what hit her.
> 
> Therefore, I'm left to assume that Mr. Predator showed up at her house, held a *gun* to her head, told her to get into her club finery, forced her to call you and tell you that she was "working late," marched her out to the car and drove her to the club, and then forced her to sit at the club and make out with him at gunpoint, unaware that your friend was watching them.
> 
> ...


Straight up straight talk right there.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well OP, you've worked very very hard to convince yourself that your ex GF was completely _victimized_ and had absolutely NO accountability for her low life behavior. It was all the scummy guy's fault, *he's* the POS who took advantage of the poor grieving damsel in distress, *he's* the predator you 'warned' her about and she's so innocent and virtuous that she never knew what hit her.
> 
> Therefore, I'm left to assume that Mr. Predator showed up at her house, held a *gun* to her head, told her to get into her club finery, forced her to call you and tell you that she was "working late," marched her out to the car and drove her to the club, and then forced her to sit at the club and make out with him at gunpoint, unaware that your friend was watching them.
> 
> ...


I do not see the OP painting his EXHGF as a victim at all. No way, no how.
Just how they lie, feign interest in the POSOM, while they are getting their
panties all wet to they can hit the floor all the more quickly.

Unfortunately he had a attention hoe for a GF back then.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Dyokemm,

You dodged a bullet. Obviously your GF did not just suddenly decide to go make out with a guy in a bar. She knew what was going on all along and probably was flattered and encouraged the attentions of OM. That means she lied to you when you warned her about him so she could continue the ego stroking with him.

Cheaters stray because that is what they want. It is not some mystical spell or formula. They have a character that allows that behavior and they want it.

I expected my beautiful wife to get hit on. I never blamed the guys who did. But the EA was hers to own, not him. She deserved and got full blame and consequences.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well OP, you've worked very very hard to convince yourself that your ex GF was completely _victimized_ and had absolutely NO accountability for her low life behavior. It was all the scummy guy's fault, *he's* the POS who took advantage of the poor grieving damsel in distress, *he's* the predator you 'warned' her about and she's so innocent and virtuous that she never knew what hit her.
> 
> Therefore, I'm left to assume that Mr. Predator showed up at her house, held a *gun* to her head, told her to get into her club finery, forced her to call you and tell you that she was "working late," marched her out to the car and drove her to the club, and then forced her to sit at the club and make out with him at gunpoint, unaware that your friend was watching them.
> 
> ...


Actually....I don’t think that.....she chose to cheat.

Hence why the relationship was over after I confronted her.

She actually had the gall to drop by my place about 3 weeks after confrontation, said she missed “us” and wanted to remain friends.....I was still in a very angry stage at that point, didn’t yell but was probably the most cold and downright vicious I have ever verbally been towards another person ever....she left in tears.

About 9 months later, she came back and begged me to give her another chance......I was no longer angry at that point, but had nothing but contempt for her as a cheater.......told her to pound sand.

I have no illusions about who and what she was......and gave her no slack because she was very depressed from her father’s passing (she tried to use that as an excuse when she begged to come back).

She was gone forever precisely because she absolutely went along with it, just as you stated.

That said, I do not agree with those her who place ALL the blame on the WS, and chortle off that the AP should be ignored.

This POS knew she was in a relationship.....knew she was very depressed because of her dad......and definitely played a faux concerned friend role to pursue her.

She was stupid enough to fall for it.....and all the depression/trauma in the world doesn’t give her a pass for her actions.

But that doesn’t excuse him from being a complete ****bag of a human being.....decent people do NOT look for opportunities for taking advantage of traumatized others for their own gratification.

But none of this was my point.....

My point was actually focused on HER.....

I saw what this scumbag was up to and specifically told her what he was doing.....whether it was her own denial about him or simple gaslighting, SHE ignored that and proceeded to blow up our relationship.

And my original statement was about how A’s with this element.....a specific warning about the future AP BEFORE the A particularly anger me.

Because the WAYWARD SPOUSE (see, focus on her) blows through that warning/discussion and does it anyway.

So....I don’t see how you could think I think of her as a victim.

Just because I am also sure that the OM was also a selfish, vile POS with no respect for others?

If you believe in giving APs a pass.....are one of those who agree with the saying “they owed you nothing”.....that’s fine.

I disagree completely.

In our society, we each have an obligation to not injure those that have done us no wrong.....

POSOM blew up my world at the time.....I had done nothing to him......if I had ran into him at the time, I would have dished out some ‘restorative justice’ to even that score for what he had done to my life.

Just as I did to my ex by permanently moving her traitorous a** from my life.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> What did she have to say for herself?


As I said in my last post, she claimed it was unplanned....happened because she was so sad at her dad’s death, and he was just being so supportive of her.

Of course when I pointed out the countless ways I had been there for her and her family both before and after his passing, and then asked her why she felt so grateful for HIS support....her response was typical, stupid horse****.....

She acknowledged everything I had done.....but then said I had to, because I was her partner.

In other words....she took it for granted....a given.

He was special because he didn’t have to.

This really p*ssed me off.....

I told her I didn’t HAVE to do those things....I did them out of love for her and her family.....and that she was about to find out the hard way about that, because we were over and she was never getting that care and support from me again.

And then, when OM dumped her like a hot potato (he was genuinely scared to death of me, and ran from her fast when I told him what he was due to receive for the disruption he had brought into my life), she ended up having no partner to support her through any of it.

Oh well....make stupid choices......get bad results.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Dyokemm said:


> As I said in my last post, she claimed it was unplanned....happened because she was so sad at her dad’s death, and he was just being so supportive of her.
> 
> Of course when I pointed out the countless ways I had been there for her and her family both before and after his passing, and then asked her why she felt so grateful for HIS support....her response was typical, stupid horsesh*t.....
> 
> ...


I actually like this post the best even over your OP in this thread. 

But the part that is bolded, WTF is up with that and, sorry girls, women in general. 

As wonderful as my GF is, and she is, I got pissed about something "Like" this that she said... I frankly I corrected her harshly...

It was something like "you have to show me that you love me". Not the exact words or context and is was not as bad as that quote sounds, but kind of like that... And I was pissed...

I looked at her a reeled off a list of 50 specific, different acts that showed that I loved her. I did this without stopping, and in a pissed off voice... 

To say the least, she was taken aback. Then I said, "Now, if that is not good enough for you, or it is not your love language, or that does not say that I care deeply for you at the very least then GET THE **** OUT" 

And I meant it. She got a little freaked out an apologized profusely, and to her credit, she has not done it again. 

But my question is WTH is up with that? WHY WHY WHY do they do that???? 

Wish I knew...


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> As I said in my last post, she claimed it was unplanned....happened because she was so sad at her dad’s death, and he was just being so supportive of her. Yeah right - unplanned - that must be why she told you she was working late - because it was unplanned.
> 
> Of course when I pointed out the countless ways I had been there for her and her family both before and after his passing, and then asked her why she felt so grateful for HIS support....her response was typical, stupid horsesh*t.....
> 
> ...


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

BluesPower said:


> I actually like this post the best even over your OP in this thread.
> 
> But the part that is bolded, WTF is up with that and, sorry girls, women in general.
> 
> ...


I think it is complacency.....or as I sometimes call it, the Baseline Effect.

After a couple has been together awhile, they unconsciously settle into a situation where they EXPECT past behaviors to continue uninterrupted in the future.....it forms a baseline for how the relationship works.

Not necessarily a bad thing.....we should be able to expect consistency from a partner.....that what came before should continue in the future.

Such as faithfulness.....

But for some people, expectation turns into ENTITLEMENT......they don’t just expect that the past behaviors will continue.....they actually believe their partners are required to continue them, NO MATTER WHAT.

And this type of entitled complacency is not gender specific.....

I have known a couple guys who had similar expectations from their wives about household and childcare responsibilities, no matter how crappy their own behavior became......they are a**holes IMO.

In my case, I believe my ex lost sight of the very simple fact that I did not HAVE to do those things......and as she quickly found out, I was entirely capable of cutting her off from my love and support when she demonstrated she wasn’t worth it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

TDSC60,

Yes.....I made that specific point to her as well.

Though she denied anything more than making out with him when I first confronted.....when she came back begging 9 months later, she confessed the full extent of what happened.

It had already been going on for about 2 weeks at the time she was busted.....and had gone full PA (on a work trip), not just making out.

She may have believed she never intended for the A to happen......but that crap would only be relevant to the FIRST incident anyway, not to repeated incidents of cheating. And, just to be clear, I don’t buy it for the first incident either, because of this:

I told her that since I had actually warned her before anything went down, she was deluding herself if she believed it ‘just happened’......she couldn’t claim (she tried) she was ‘shocked’ the first time he grabbed her and kissed her......because I had ALREADY told her what this POS was up to.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Dyokemm said:


> As I said in my last post, she claimed it was unplanned....happened because she was so sad at her dad’s death, and he was just being so supportive of her.
> 
> Of course when I pointed out the countless ways I had been there for her and her family both before and after his passing, and then asked her why she felt so grateful for HIS support....her response was typical, stupid horsesh*t.....
> 
> ...


I fully agree with you and how you treated your cheating ex. 
The way I see it is if she was prepared to use her fathers death as an excuse to cheat, especially with the guy you had warned her about, what would happen if you had a long term illness or maybe had to travel for work and couldn’t keep an eye on her? Would she take that as the green light to have a few ons just because she was lonely?
The other man did you a favor. He showed you her true colors before you made a monumental mistake. 
And you showed that you have a backbone by kicking her to the kerb immediately. Kudos.


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

Who to blame in an affair. I have four principles in life. "Honor--Integrity--Loyalty--Commitment" We always blame the WS for their affair. If the AP thought the WS was unattached, not engaged, not married, or not in a committed relationship, then they have broken none of the principles and is not guilty for seeing, dating, or sleeping with the WS. The WS, though, has broken all the principles and the entire affair is their fault. If the AP knows that the WS is in a committed relationship then they are just as guilty, if not more so, because they have no honor or integrity. They set out to pull the WS into an affair. The AP may be a master manipulator, "a silver tongue fox, that knows how to spot the weak ones, tell them exactly what they want to hear and make the WS feel like they are the answer to all their problems. (Yes, there are people out there like that) This person is without honor and I have absolutely no use, what so ever, for a person without honor. The WS may have problems that the AP causes the WS to perceive as opening a door and giving them a reason to cheat. Not everyone is alike and many are not emotionally strong enough to withstand a direct assault on their emotions and things they are dealing with in their life. In situations like this I would say the AP is responsible for about 70% of the affair and the WS about 30%. (Just my view) If the AP knows the WS is in a relationship and the WS is normal emotionally, then the WS just lets themselves get sucked into an affair, then it's 50-50. Both are to blame equally. Just my point of view. I do wish you well.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

scaredlion said:


> Who to blame in an affair. I have four principles in life. "Honor--Integrity--Loyalty--Commitment" We always blame the WS for their affair. If the AP thought the WS was unattached, not engaged, not married, or not in a committed relationship, then they have broken none of the principles and is not guilty for seeing, dating, or sleeping with the WS. The WS, though, has broken all the principles and the entire affair is their fault. If the AP knows that the WS is in a committed relationship then they are just as guilty, if not more so, because they have no honor or integrity. They set out to pull the WS into an affair. The AP may be a master manipulator, "a silver tongue fox, that knows how to spot the weak ones, tell them exactly what they want to hear and make the WS feel like they are the answer to all their problems. (Yes, there are people out there like that) This person is without honor and I have absolutely no use, what so ever, for a person without honor. The WS may have problems that the AP causes the WS to perceive as opening a door and giving them a reason to cheat. Not everyone is alike and many are not emotionally strong enough to withstand a direct assault on their emotions and things they are dealing with in their life. In situations like this I would say the AP is responsible for about 70% of the affair and the WS about 30%. (Just my view) If the AP knows the WS is in a relationship and the WS is normal emotionally, then the WS just lets themselves get sucked into an affair, then it's 50-50. Both are to blame equally. Just my point of view. I do wish you well.


Why on earth do you think some sleazebag is going to respect your relationship/marriage if your wife/fiancee isn’t. And more to the point why should he? 
You are quoting percentages like a relationship is some sort of contract which can be challenged on a technicality?
If my wife or girlfriend couldn’t stay faithful I wouldn’t give a damn whether it was with a complete stranger, a long time friend or Tom Cruise. 
She would be gone.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

For the record, "women in general" do NOT take their men for granted. Stop with the crap generalizations.

No....don't argue. Just say "sorry." Eh! No buts.

Just sorry

😄


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Warnings are good mate guarding tools regardless.

I was involved in EMT work a few years back and was working with teams of younger men and women.

Emergency responder, ER or any tense life and death type of work fosters intimacy and necessary trust to work effectively with your partners.

It is very easy to form friendships and romantic relationships and have affairs.

There was one young Irish lass that took a liking to me and I didn't realize the level of affection she developed for me.

Mrs. C spotted it immediately at a party and warned me about it. I took a closer look and found out my wife was dead on in her assessment and I cut off our friendship.

There was another time when Mrs. C had a male friend at the YMCA that seemed totally above board but he seemed to appreciate her more than I was comfortable with and he never hung around when I showed up.

I felt uncomfortable with him and, even though Mrs. Conan never behaved inappropriately with him, she stepped back from that friendship when I talked with her about it.

We are pretty healthy in that respect however and I do know some folks are jealous in a weird way or don't respect their mate when they are legitimately concerned about a potential threat to their marriage.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> For the record, "women in general" do NOT take their men for granted. Stop with the crap generalizations.
> 
> No....don't argue. Just say "sorry." Eh! No buts.
> 
> ...


Yes ma’am. :smnotworthy:


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

scaredlion said:


> If the AP knows that the WS is in a committed relationship then they are just as guilty, if not more so, because they have no honor or integrity. They set out to pull the WS into an affair.


Engagement and marriage are public statements by two people that they are in a committed relationship. If you are not engaged or married it is by choice. Many people believe that short of such public statements of commitment, you are just dating, and that the public has no responsibility to acknowledge or determine the level of commitment between the parties. 

Since the OP was not married or even engaged to her, the other man sought to determine the true level of the commitment from what he learned about the relationship from her. The OP’s opinion on the matter are irrelevant if not shared by the woman that the OP was dating. The other man was single and did what single guys do. He pursued an unmarried unengaged woman that was receptive to his advances. Many today are cheapening the value of marriage when they try to claim the privileges of marriage while not being married. There was no affair here since neither party was married. The OP was indeed betrayed, but not by the other man.

Yes, I am old school when it comes to marriage.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

TRy said:


> Engagement and marriage are public statements by two people that they are in a committed relationship. If you are not engaged or married it is by choice. Many people believe that short of such public statements of commitment, you are just dating, and that the public has no responsibility to acknowledge or determine the level of commitment between the parties.
> 
> Since the OP was not married or even engaged to her, the other man sought to determine the true level of the commitment from what he learned about the relationship from her. The OP’s opinion on the matter are irrelevant if not shared by the woman that the OP was dating. The other man was single and did what single guys do. He pursued an unmarried unengaged woman that was receptive to his advances. Many today are cheapening the value of marriage when they try to claim the privileges of marriage while not being married. There was no affair here since neither party was married. The OP was indeed betrayed, but not by the other man.
> 
> Yes, I am old school when it comes to marriage.


I see your point.

But sorry, I disagree about OM just being a ‘single guy’.

I have met tons of women over the years who have had boyfriends......and I never took that as a justification to chase them saying, “Hey, they aren’t married, I don’t have to respect that girl’s relationship or her guy”.

But then, I am not a f*cking selfish jerk who believes I can take what I want, consequences to others be d*mned.

All I need to hear is, “I have a boyfriend.”......and my thought instantly goes to, this guy hasn’t done anything to me.....I am not going to mess up his world.

You know....the Golden Rule.

And in my experience.....guys who don’t respect a dating relationship don’t suddenly become honorable when they see an engagement or wedding ring and refuse to chase a woman.

I have never met or observed a man willing to chase a woman with ‘only’ a boyfriend, who ever drew a line and showed restraint if the woman was engaged or married.

I suppose there is the possibility of a guy who only respects a ‘true’ marriage or engagement, but considers all others fair game....as you hypothesize here......but I personally have never seen one.

Sounds like the proverbial unicorn to me.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

My problem with all this is that Dyokemm knows that he warned his GF about what the other guy was after and she cheated anyway. Thus she got dumped. Understandable and I agree with his actions.

But the problem is that we/he have no idea of how she presented her relationship with Dyokemm to the other guy. She could have said she was just casually dating him. She could have said he was just a family friend who she went out with on occasion. We just don't know.

If she told the other guy she was in a committed relationship, then yeah, he is a POS for going after her. But if she down played her relationship with Dyokemm and gave OM indications that she would welcome his attentions - not so much.

Since she is a proven liar, the truth is probably forever hidden.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> For the record, "women in general" do NOT take their men for granted. Stop with the crap generalizations.
> 
> No....don't argue. Just say "sorry." Eh! No buts.
> 
> ...


This time, based on what I have lived through and seen, I am going to make this generalization and disagree with you. 

And I will not under any circumstances say that I am sorry if you put a gun to my head. 

Now, I am not saying men to do this as well, but from my vantage I does seem women do it more, I could be wrong about that. 

And No, don't argue, just say you are right and go on...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> I have met tons of women over the years who have had boyfriends......and I never took that as a justification to chase them saying, “Hey, they aren’t married, I don’t have to respect that girl’s relationship or her guy”.
> 
> All I need to hear is, “I have a boyfriend.”......and my thought instantly goes to, this guy hasn’t done anything to me.....I am not going to mess up his world.
> 
> ...


Bless you. I mean it. I'm 51 (a young 51 at that.) I used to work in the same building with a gorgeous young man literally half my age. We struck up a work friendship. We have a few things in common (music and tattoos).

He quit and asked if he could use me as a reference. I agreed bc he did a great job. Recently he texted me. Asked me how married life was (married last October to my live-in bf). Told him it was great! He then confessed a long term sexual attraction to me. I told him I thought of him like a son. Highly flattered but nope. Now between me, you, and the bedpost if I were single I would eat him up like the snack he is. 

Then he said something so weird: "When I heard you were getting married, I was happy for you but also really sad. Because I knew I'd have no chance." I told him he never had a chance EVER bc I was in a monogamous relationship before I married.

A week later what do I get? A damn **** pic from the kid. ****ing gross.

And yes, I told my husband everything. Even gave him my phone. He said he didn't need my phone.

So, thank you for being a decent man and respecting others' relationships regardless if they're married or not.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

lucy999 said:


> Dyokemm said:
> 
> 
> > I have met tons of women over the years who have had boyfriends......and I never took that as a justification to chase them saying, “Hey, they aren’t married, I don’t have to respect that girl’s relationship or her guy”.
> ...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4KswaaSDIoc

Was it at least a decent looking one?!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4KswaaSDIoc
> 
> Was it at least a decent looking one?!


Incorrigible....>


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4KswaaSDIoc
> ...


I also want to know if she’s still going to give him a good recommendation to potential employers. Like “oh I wouldn’t say he’s up for that position” or “oh yes definitely, this guy has what it takes if I was looking to hire I’d hire him in a minute!”


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

lucy999 said:


> Bless you. I mean it. I'm 51 (a young 51 at that.) I used to work in the same building with a gorgeous young man literally half my age. We struck up a work friendship. We have a few things in common (music and tattoos).
> 
> He quit and asked if he could use me as a reference. I agreed bc he did a great job. Recently he texted me. Asked me how married life was (married last October to my live-in bf). Told him it was great! He then confessed a long term sexual attraction to me. I told him I thought of him like a son. Highly flattered but nope. Now between me, you, and the bedpost if I were single I would eat him up like the snack he is.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the compliment.

I am sorry that you had to go through that.

And, sorry to say, your story illustrates perfectly why I say AP (male or female) deserve absolutely ZERO consideration for a ‘pass’ or excuse of any kind for their behavior.....

They ****ing know EXACTLY what they are doing.

In your situation, for instance, WHY in the hell would this punk even tell you about his attraction?

We all have attractions....can’t help that......or blame him for it.

BUT....he knows you are married.

What is the point of sharing that with you at that moment? 

His time for expressing that was LONG past.....and truly never even existed if he knew you were in a monogamous relationship even before your M, when he first met you.

No reason....other than he is a POS seeing if you will respond to the flattery/compliment and he can worm his way further in if you react positively because he knows you like the compliments.

This was precisely what I first recognized with the POSOM in my situation.

He started with a couple normal sounding condolence messages to her......one verbally that I witnessed at the funeral, the other on a voicemail he left her.

But the next voicemail he left (I happened to be at our place, and the old voicemail machines used to allow you to hear the message being left......lmao for those of you too young to remember those days.....and in case anyone wonders, it was left on a separate line she had in the spare bedroom she used as an office) he made the statement about how sorry he was for her blah, blah , blah......and then ended by saying how kind and special he always thought she was, and how terrible it must be to have her dad waste away like that in front of her (Lou Gehrig’s Disease).

As soon as I heard the ‘how special he always found her’ bit, I KNEW exactly what the scumbag was up to.

Needless to say.....she saw it differently....he was just being kind.

Besides.....she had no interest.

I am glad to hear about how YOU handled the situation in your M......honorably.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> No reason....other than he is a POS seeing if you will respond to the flattery/compliment and he can worm his way further in if you react positively because he knows you like the compliments.
> 
> This was precisely what I first recognized with the POSOM in my situation.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

It's so funny how, like cheaters have a script, the players have one, too. I chuckled to myself when you said your POSOM tested the waters with innocuous comments to your ex then ramped it up.

The young man in my scenario tested the waters with pictures of his new puppy. He knows I love dogs. Sheesh.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

lucy999 said:


> Thank you.
> 
> It's so funny how, like cheaters have a script, the players have one, too. I chuckled to myself when you said your POSOM tested the waters with innocuous comments to your ex then ramped it up.
> 
> The young man in my scenario tested the waters with pictures of his new puppy. He knows I love dogs. Sheesh.


Yes.

Exactly why I can’t understand for second why some people take the attitude that the AP is somehow just acting normal....’doing their thing’.......when they do this crap....

Like its just natural that they would pursue a person....even one they KNEW was in a relationship/marriage.

Sorry....but if you knowingly chase a person you know is in a relationship, much less a marriage, you are nothing but trash.

Now someone mentioned in another post.....if an AP truly does not know the WS is M because they have been lying and hidden it, then they are completely blameless.....

But if they know.....like POS did in my case (he actually shook my hand at the funeral of her father), then they are nothing but selfish scum.

In your situation, that selfish scummyness came up against a stable and loyal wall.

In mine...it ran up against a depressed, traumatized person, who (let’s be honest) must have also have had a serious lack of character......and her stupid choice was the result.

But one thing for sure......

These types of statements and messages are anything but innocent friendship.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I get your point about the AP. However, you warned her upfront but it didn't matter much. She went ahead anyway. A light bulb should have went on when he made the first pass. Like I said earlier you can't stop a wayward on a downhill slide. 

I'd bet she had a wayward mentality upfront so a shiny new thing was all it took. Everything else is just BS excuses on her part.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> I get your point about the AP. However, you warned her upfront but it didn't matter much. She went ahead anyway. A light bulb should have went on when he made the first pass. Like I said earlier you can't stop a wayward on a downhill slide.
> 
> I'd bet she had a wayward mentality upfront so a shiny new thing was all it took. Everything else is just BS excuses on her part.


I agree that she must have had some serious character issues to get into the A.....

That said.....her depression and trauma from her dad’s death were real......I saw it too, and watching the final stages of Lou Gehrig’s Disease is definitely heart wrenching.....would be even if it was a stranger.

But depression/trauma are not a free pass for crappy behavior.

Let’s face it....every human at various times in their lives goes trough trauma and events that leave us depressed.

And yes....when we are depressed, the temptation to engage in ‘feel good’ behaviors (alcohol, drugs, attention, sex)) is probably much harder to resist than when things are normal/stable.

But THAT moment is when character has to show IMO.....character isn’t tested or shown in routine or normal circumstances....it is precisely in times of distress and chaos when it has to shine forth.

People who don’t cheat in these situations IMO are able to prioritize their responsibilities and commitments over the potential gratification (or, to be honest, even RELIEF from sadness and trauma)......

It is their character that allows them to set aside the temptation and remember their promises to those they love.

People who lack character focus only on their own satisfaction.

I have thought a lot about these situations over the years.....

And I am always reminded about some of the leadership training I had at the Naval Academy.....I think it is analogous to the situation a person tempted to cheat faces, in terms of putting responsibility above emotional desire.

Specifically, I remember an instructor talking about the total emotional chaos and strain that is combat........every instinct and emotion you have will be telling you to get the h*ll out of there ASAP.....BUT that is precisely when you have to remember your duty and responsibility to the guys you serve with.

Give in to your fear and the huge temptation to run......and your buddies might very well get killed.

Your duty/responsibility MUST come before your own emotional instincts.

Obviously, combat and infidelity are completely different circumstances.....but the role of character remains the same IMO.

And it is only really tested and revealed in these difficult moments.

Unfortunately.....my ex failed badly.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> the only reason we were not officially engaged at the time was I didn’t want to formally propose to her during her dad’s final few months of life (he died of Lou Gehrig’s Disease).....but she had actually told him in his final days not to worry about her because she was marrying me and would be OK.


What you said here does not make sense. On one hand you say that the only reason that you were not engaged was because of her Dad’s illness, yet on the other hand you say that it gave her Dad comfort in his final days knowing that she was getting married to you. If you getting married to her would give him comfort, it would have been a great idea to in fact get engaged to her while he was still alive. 

I am guessing that the real reason that you did not get engaged is because your girlfriend did not want to get engaged until she had the opportunity to check out the possibilities with the other man. She used her Dad’s illness and death as an excuse to delay the engagement, that you as a carrying and decent person could not question.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> All I need to hear is, “I have a boyfriend.”.


You are right if the woman in question in fact tells the other man that “I have a boyfriend” and leaves it at that. But if she tells him that “I have a boyfriend” that I will be breaking up with soon because of some supposedly abusive or neglectful behavior, such as not emotionally supporting her during her fathers illness and death, all bets are off. The bottom line is that you prefer to blame shift to the other man what should be solely blamed on your girlfriend. The other man has to go off what she tells him, and cheaters often lie to both parties.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

TRy said:


> You are right if the woman in question in fact tells the other man that “I have a boyfriend” and leaves it at that. But if she tells him that “I have a boyfriend” that I will be breaking up with soon because of some supposedly abusive or neglectful behavior, such not emotionally supporting me during my fathers illness and death, all bets are off. The bottom line is you prefer to blame shift to the other man what should be solely blamed on your girlfriend; the other man has to go off what she tells him.


I don’t get where you think I blame OM and not her.....suggest you read almost every post here.

I held her 100% responsible for cheating then.....and I hold her 100% responsible for her betrayal today.

It’s why she was booted out of my life right away.....and why I refused to take her back months later or even accept her excuse about how it was because of her (very real) depression after her dad died.

She broke her commitment to me....period.

I just don’t believe in giving free passes to scumbags (male or female) who pursue people in relationships.

I believe both a WS and an AP are 100% responsible for an A (with the exception as I mentioned above where an AP is NOT aware the WS is in a relationship at all because they have been lied to and kept in the dark).....

Thing is they are responsible for different things or parts of the fiasco......

An AP is 0% responsible for a WS breaking their promise/vow......but he/she is 100% responsible for pursuing a person in a relationship or agreeing to it if the WS made the first move.

I actually met a woman a few years ago who wanted to go out with me.....said she was in the process of D, H was a selfish jerk, etc.

My response?

You are not D yet.....so there is nothing to discuss until you are single again.

Why?

Because I don’t know what her relationship is really like or its status......and I am not about to just take anybody’s word for it.

Simple fact....she was still M until her D was final.

And I had no way of verifying ANYTHING else she told me.

Now....I could have used that as an excuse to say, “Well she told me he was a jerk and they were divorcing”.....and went on to pretend like I knew that was the gospel truth or something.....

But I would have known, that would be a cop out and a lie......simply to let me off of any responsibility for screwing around with a M woman.

“Hey....don’t look at me. She told me ....”

Total abdication of MY OWN responsibility.

Whenever I see people trying to excuse bad behavior by pointing a finger at someone else, rather than owning their own choice/decision, it really irks me.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> Simple fact....she was still M until her D was final.
> 
> And I had no way of verifying ANYTHING else she told me.
> 
> ...


In your example of you turning down a relationship with another women you say that “Simple fact....she was still M until her D was final“, and “simply to let me off of any responsibility for screwing around with a M woman”. Well the simple fact is that you were not married or even engaged to your girlfriend, so he did not have to treat her like a married women. If she said that you were a jerk, there was no divorce for the other man to have to wait for. There was no need for the other man to have to pretend that your girlfriend was not married, because she was in fact not married. You acknowledging that marriage matters and that you believe that you should wait for the divorce to date her, is an acknowledgment that there is a difference between being married and not married. Sorry, but the lesson that you should be learning from all of this is that until you put a ring on it, other men only have to determine her relationship status based on what she tells them.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TRy said:


> Engagement and marriage are public statements by two people that they are in a committed relationship. If you are not engaged or married it is by choice. Many people believe that short of such public statements of commitment, you are just dating, and that the public has no responsibility to acknowledge or determine the level of commitment between the parties.
> 
> Since the OP was not married or even engaged to her, the other man sought to determine the true level of the commitment from what he learned about the relationship from her. The OP’s opinion on the matter are irrelevant if not shared by the woman that the OP was dating. The other man was single and did what single guys do. He pursued an unmarried unengaged woman that was receptive to his advances. *Many today are cheapening the value of marriage when they try to claim the privileges of marriage while not being married. *There was no affair here since neither party was married. The OP was indeed betrayed, but not by the other man.
> 
> Yes, I am old school when it comes to marriage.


Truth


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> This time, based on what I have lived through and seen, I am going to make this generalization and disagree with you.
> 
> And I will not under any circumstances say that I am sorry if you put a gun to my head.
> 
> ...


I would never put a gun to your head.

You're one of the normal, good guys who actually like women.

We need you guys around to balance out the woman-hating micro-p type lololololol


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Kudos to the OP for living by his moral standards. Unfortunately, not everyone believes in living a moral life. Many people believe in taking what you want when you want it. 
Many people defend their behavior and point the blame to something else... I’M not the one in a relationship, he kissed me, she wasn’t married etc. I have met so many people who can’t take responsibility for their actions, and further more... put themselves in situations that convince themselves are innocent Bc they aren’t necessarily “wrong” but we all damn well know they shouldn’t be doing. I am going to be judgmental and say “us” and “them” because this is how I judge people. I and the other moral people out there know it’s not ok to aggressively reach out to a married/taken person. We know it’s not ok to get in a car with someone your SO warned you about. It’s not ok to kiss a taken person. And then there are THOSE people, who think people should do whatever they want. They think it’s fine to reach out to the cute girl with a boyfriend because maybe she is interested too. It’s fine to meet up with this guy even though I have a boyfriend because who knows. 

People can do whatever they want to do. But there are consequences for all our actions. That’s why it’s important to see your SO in multiple circumstances, especially when they are down, or not doing well, or angry because that’s when our true test of character comes out. People need to have boundaries, and we all need to stop thinking everyone is a good person just Bc we are and judge them by their actions and behaviors.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

I think some people actually know exactly what they're playing naivety to and consciously decide to allow things to develop because it feels good to be pursued. I've been around highly successful womanizers. The reason they even exists is due to previous successes unfortunately. 

It's like anything else in life. You continue to do what works for you and POS just happen to take this fact and apply it in sinister ways, much like a thief or some other low life.

I can confidently say that every f'n POS that lives in this world that has hit on one's girlfriend, wife, sister, ...... whatever, has audaciously done so because it has worked for him in the past. I've seen it first hand, countless times...and the worst part is that it's not even that hard.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> I and the other moral people out there know it’s not ok to aggressively reach out to a married/taken person.


 What if the OP’s girlfriend had posted on this thread instead of the OP, and told us that the reason that she is not married to the OP, and the reason that she did not take the ring and become engaged is that she did not want to commit to the OP. That in her mind they are just dating until she decides for herself what she wants, and that she will not let the OP pressure her to commit until she is ready. That no one else gets to decide for her what is best for her, and that she does not like the fact that the OP calls and threatens other men with physical violence if they show any interest in her. No disrespect to the OP, but not knowing the OP, many on this site would not be wrong if they responded to her as if what she said was true. That could be similar to the perspective of the other man.


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

TRy said:


> In your example of you turning down a relationship with another women you say that “Simple fact....she was still M until her D was final“, and “simply to let me off of any responsibility for screwing around with a M woman”. Well the simple fact is that you were not married or even engaged to your girlfriend, so he did not have to treat her like a married women. If she said that you were a jerk, there was no divorce for the other man to have to wait for. *There was no need for the other man to have to pretend that your girlfriend was not married, because she was in fact not married. You acknowledging that marriage matters and that you believe that you should wait for the divorce to date her, is an acknowledgment that there is a difference between being married and not married.* Sorry, but the lesson that you should be learning from all of this is that until you put a ring on it, other men only have to determine her relationship status based on what she tells them.


It seems like you are saying that the only committed relationship that counts is marriage.

Are you? Because I don't agree. 

Relationships of all types should be respected, not just marriages, but they are not all the same. And the situations for these categories can be different.

There is a big difference between divorced AND "married, and/or in a committed relationship but unmarried."

Waiting for someone to divorce means you are waiting for them to be out of their committed relationship.

There are certainly grey areas. In this case @Dyokemm says he waited because this woman wasn't finally divorced and I respect that. 

However, I think that's another grey area because divorces can take a long time and people often "split up" well prior to the final divorce.

Another grey area is letting a person who is in a committed relationship (Not a marriage) know/feel your interest. I think that is fair and okay to do to a point, but there is also being a snake.

Finally, It's not like lying about one's relationship status is limited to the unmarried. Rings can come off. Explanations and lies can be told by anyone no matter their true status.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

faithfulman said:


> It seems like you are saying that the only committed relationship that counts is marriage.
> 
> Are you? Because I don't agree.


 What I am saying is that marriage matters, and that unless you are married or engaged, to the rest of the world your relationship status is not a given in the same way that it is if you were married. That without a ring, other people have a right to determine a relationship status by what they are told by the party that they know. Flipping your question, are you saying that a relationship without marriage or even an engagement counts that same as begin married?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

TRy said:


> What if the OP’s girlfriend had posted on this thread instead of the OP, and told us that the reason that she is not married to the OP, and the reason that she did not take the ring and become engaged is that she did not want to commit to the OP. That in her mind they are just dating until she decides for herself what she wants, and that she will not let the OP pressure her to commit until she is ready. That no one else gets to decide for her what is best for her, and that she does not like the fact that the OP calls and threatens other men with physical violence if they show any interest in her. No disrespect to the OP, but not knowing the OP, many on this site would not be wrong if they responded to her as if what she said was true. That could be similar to the perspective of the other man.




She has every right to not know if she wants to commit to him or not. But once your in a monogamous relationship Fidelity is assumed. And at anytime she is unsure, she can tell her boyfriend she wants a break, or she doesn’t want to be committed or monogamous. 
The gf also has every right to talk to whoever she wants and get into whoever car she wants to. But there are consequences for your actions. And given the choice between securing her relationship and choosing her boyfriend vs flirting with the possibility of something else where she may or may not get caught.... she decided her fate. 
Listen when I really value something, and I know I found a great guy there is nothing that will cause me to ever flirt with the line and jeopardize that relationship. If you really value something... that risk isn’t worth it. 
And to me that is the whole point. When people put themselves in these not so innocent situations they are flirting with infidelity.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

TRy said:


> Flipping your question, are you saying that a relationship without marriage or even an engagement counts that same as begin married?



That is a matter of personal opinion. Just like some people don’t think hitting on a married person is wrong seeing how slavery has been abolished for quite sometime. Some people think it’s the married persons sin to bare, not the single person sleeping with the married person , because it wasn’t their vows/covenant he broke. 
There are no truths to these answers, just personal opinion. And that is how you can separate people based on their morals/ethics.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TRy said:


> What if the OP’s girlfriend had posted on this thread instead of the OP, and told us that the reason that she is not married to the OP, and the reason that she did not take the ring and become engaged is that she did not want to commit to the OP. That in her mind they are just dating until she decides for herself what she wants, and that she will not let the OP pressure her to commit until she is ready. That no one else gets to decide for her what is best for her, and that she does not like the fact that the OP calls and threatens other men with physical violence if they show any interest in her. No disrespect to the OP, but not knowing the OP, many on this site would not be wrong if they responded to her as if what she said was true. That could be similar to the perspective of the other man.


All of this and some of your previous post suggest some type of moral equivalency, where there is none. 

If you are in an exclusive relationship, which OP and his Ex GF obviously were, then you don't get to cheat. Pretty cut and dried... or it should be. 

If you are dating around and EVERYONE agrees the more power to you, otherwise cheating at any level is wrong. 

It is also quite obvious that OP's ex was not happy that he dumped her, it further suggest that she took him for granted and that she thought she was entitled to do what she wanted, until reality set it.

People can do what they want, but often there are consequences. In this case, she did not get to marry, OP. 

For my money, he dodged a bullet and he is better off...


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> She has every right to not know if she wants to commit to him or not. But once your in a monogamous relationship Fidelity is assumed. And at anytime she is unsure, she can tell her boyfriend she wants a break, or she doesn’t want to be committed or monogamous.
> The gf also has every right to talk to whoever she wants and get into whoever car she wants to. But there are consequences for your actions. And given the choice between securing her relationship and choosing her boyfriend vs flirting with the possibility of something else where she may or may not get caught.... she decided her fate.


I agree 100% with what you just posted above. The issue that I have is the amount of blame being placed by some on the other man, when all that he had to go by in determining her relationship status is what she told him, and the fact that she is not married or engaged. Again, marriage matters. If you want to live in the gray area, do not blame others for the consequences.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

TRy said:


> I agree 100% with what you just posted above. The issue that I have is the amount of blame being placed by some on the other man, when all that he had to go by in determining her relationship status is what she told him, and the fact that she is not married or engaged. Again, marriage matters. If you want to live in the gray area, do not blame others for the consequences.




I understand what your saying. We are all biased with our opinions. The OP is just the type of man that thinks it’s detestable when someone hits on a person that is known to be in any kind of relationship. This doesn’t add or take away his ex gfs degree of guilt. He is just assigning different guilt to the OM Bc he thinks no one should be enticing people who are in relationships.

It’s like when someone teasing someone and the other person punches them in the face. The person is guilty of throwing the punch regardless of someone else’s behavior. However the teaser is not innocent. And I think the OP wants to make a point that the “other person” be held accountable or not be forgotten.


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

TRy said:


> What I am saying is that marriage matters, and that unless you are married or engaged, to the rest of the world your relationship status is not a given in the same way that it is if you were married. That without a ring, other people have a right to determine a relationship status by what they are told by the party that they know. *Flipping your question, are you saying that a relationship without marriage or even an engagement counts that same as begin married?*


I guess it depends on the two(?) people involved.

But in my point of view, if the two people are in a mutually committed relationship, then they are expected to remain just as faithful as if they were married. 

Faithfulness is a set of values and a mindset. And that is not determined by a ring.

Indeed, if one or both cannot remain faithful while in the "committed but unmarried" stage, however long that is, then they aren't going to be all if a sudden faithful once married.

If your man cheats on you before you're married, expect more of the same after the nuptials. 

Externally, I think there is more of a grey area when one isn't married or engaged. I wouldn't do it, but if a woman who strikes your fancy is in a relationship but not married, I don't think it is 100% out of bounds to let her know you have interest.

But there are limits to that on both sides, and a right way to disengage from the committed relationship. It is probably tough and messy, but it happens all the time. 

And if that woman/man expresses explicitly or implicitly that the door is not open, a decent person backs off.

And by the way, there is a right way to disengage from a marriage as well. Messy and hard, but it also happens. 

***

With regard to your statement that if you are married/engaged, then your relationship is a obvious given, I mostly agree, but again, I gave an example - divorce pending, couple already split, where I think it is permissible to engage with the soon to be divorcee. 

I don't think I personally would be comfortable doing that. 

In the end, married or unmarried, the "signal" you give to the world depends on your own honesty and truthfulness.


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

By the way, I get what @TRy is saying.

The person external to the relationship may not know the status of the person they are interested in when there is no ring. 

That is one way "monkey-branching" happens.

I was once the next branch, then years later, I was the previous branch, but I mostly did not know what was up at the beginning, she was my first long-term girlfriend.

Life isn't black and white, but I don't think the "he didn't know she was in a serious relationship" scenario applies to the story we are discussing, where the dude was clearly a dirtbag trying to **** a taken woman, and she was a skeezer who wanted to sample outside **** and keep her relationship.

Yes, her actions are all her fault, but that doesn't absolve Mr. Dirtbag of being a horrible person.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

faithfulman said:


> Life isn't black and white, but I don't think the "he didn't know she was in a serious relationship" scenario applies to the story we are discussing, where the dude was clearly a dirtbag trying to **** a taken woman, and she was a skeezer who wanted to sample outside **** and keep her relationship.
> 
> Yes, her actions are all her fault, but that doesn't absolve Mr. Dirtbag of being a horrible person.


You say that "the dude was clearly a dirtbag trying to **** a taken woman"; how do you know this? I may have missed it, but other than the OP assuming that this other man knew that the OP's girlfriend was in a committed relationship, can you show me where the OP discussed how he knew that the other man was fully informed about the status of the committed relationship (prior of course to the OP threatening the other man).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TRy said:


> What I am saying is that marriage matters, and that unless you are married or engaged, to the rest of the world your relationship status is not a given in the same way that it is if you were married. That without a ring, other people have a right to determine a relationship status by what they are told by the party that they know. Flipping your question, are you saying that a relationship without marriage or even an engagement counts that same as begin married?


Well. Mrs. C took 4 years to convince to marry me but she was very much my woman from our first kiss.

One dip **** trespassed. Mrs. C responded correctly but, even if she hadn't, my reaction would have been similar.

You can wax as philosophical as much as you like until you trespass and wake up in the afterlife.

You better believe that crossing me or those like me in the sexual arena is dangerous regardless of if you believe it should be so.

Dip **** got on his knees in public and begged Mrs. C's forgiveness the next day. 

If a woman is known to be with me and someone tries his luck with her, he isn't competent to argue with produce.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> One dip **** trespassed. Mrs. C responded correctly but, even if she hadn't, my reaction would have been similar.





ConanHub said:


> If a woman is known to be with me and someone tries his luck with her, he isn't competent to argue with produce.


You made two key statements that make all the difference in the world. One, you were with a woman that "responded correctly" when approached by another man, and two, you were with a woman that made it "know" that she was with you.


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

TRy said:


> You say that "the dude was clearly a dirtbag trying to **** a taken woman"; how do you know this? I may have missed it, but other than the OP assuming that this other man knew that the OP's girlfriend was in a committed relationship, can you show me where the OP discussed how he knew that the other man was fully informed about the status of the committed relationship (prior of course to the OP threatening the other man).



I am taking him at his word - but I don't know he is correct. 

But if one is not hell-bent on playing devil's advocate, one might apply common sense and assume that a guy who knows her well enough to call her to console her about her father's death also has an inkling about her being in a committed relationship. 

But look I get your point! "Only married people should expect their relationships to be respected or secure, because wedding rings."


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TRy said:


> You made two key statements that make all the difference in the world. One, you were with a woman that "responded correctly" when approached by another man, and two, you were with a woman that made it "know" that she was with you.


Absolutely and three, I don't tolerate trespassers. Guys that knowingly go after taken women got something coming.

They really don't want what I bring and orbiters as well as garden variety predators have something they earned that needs payment regardless of if a woman is behaving properly.

I'm not begrudging you your operating procedure but mine is every bit as real as yours and rooted in primal foundations.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

TRy said:


> In your example of you turning down a relationship with another women you say that “Simple fact....she was still M until her D was final“, and “simply to let me off of any responsibility for screwing around with a M woman”. Well the simple fact is that you were not married or even engaged to your girlfriend, so he did not have to treat her like a married women. If she said that you were a jerk, there was no divorce for the other man to have to wait for. There was no need for the other man to have to pretend that your girlfriend was not married, because she was in fact not married. You acknowledging that marriage matters and that you believe that you should wait for the divorce to date her, is an acknowledgment that there is a difference between being married and not married. Sorry, but the lesson that you should be learning from all of this is that until you put a ring on it, other men only have to determine her relationship status based on what she tells them.


Fair enough....you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I disagree 100%.

I don’t write off millions of people’s relationships just because they have not had a formal wedding ceremony.....meaning I would never consider an unmarried woman, in a committed relationship, to be any more ‘available’ than one with a ring on her finger.

They are both equally off limits IMO.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

TRy said:


> What you said here does not make sense. On one hand you say that the only reason that you were not engaged was because of her Dad’s illness, yet on the other hand you say that it gave her Dad comfort in his final days knowing that she was getting married to you. If you getting married to her would give him comfort, it would have been a great idea to in fact get engaged to her while he was still alive.
> 
> I am guessing that the real reason that you did not get engaged is because your girlfriend did not want to get engaged until she had the opportunity to check out the possibilities with the other man. She used her Dad’s illness and death as an excuse to delay the engagement, that you as a carrying and decent person could not question.


Your guessing is just simply wrong.

I love how your omniscience about people you know nothing about gives you such concise insights.

Have you ever seen a person die of Lou Gehrig’s?

Do you know how horribly stressful it is?

My ex’s mother, siblings, and her were under tremendous stress and depression for months......her dad literally wasted away in front of them over the course of almost 2 years.....but the worst aspect is the deterioration is physical, not mental at all.

Her dad was very worried about all of them for the future.....on his final day, she stressed again to her dad that she would be OK because she had me.

Of course, we had been dating for 2.5 years, so he was aware that we were planning to eventually marry long before the end....we come to that conclusion, together, just about the time her dad lost his ability to feed himself.

Now you may disagree with my choice to wait before formally proposing to her with the ring she picked out ( I really don’t care), but I did not think it appropriate when her and all of her family were going through such tremendous pain to try to insert a proposal.

Just sort of struck me as a selfish thing to do at that moment.....or even in the immediate aftermath of her grief.

Never wanted her to forever associate my formal proposal with that horrible time for her and her family.

Now frankly....I don’t give a crap if you agree or disagree with my choice and reasoning......you don’t know me.....don’t know her or her family.....know zip about the details of how horrid her dad’s drawn out death was......or any other detail for that matter.

And you are certainly entitled to spout off your opinions of what really happened.....

All I will further add in response is this....

If she was just lying to her dying dad, family, and me....stringing the situation out til the death was done so she could dump me.....

Then why the h*ll did she cry beg for me not to dump her when I ended it right after I confronted?......come back 3 weeks later saying she missed me and begging that we still remain friends?......come back 9 months later begging for me to give her a second chance in the relationship?

So keep ‘guessing’ you know what really happened, and insinuating that I am here telling a bunch of lies about what happened in my own life.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

TRy said:


> You say that "the dude was clearly a dirtbag trying to **** a taken woman"; how do you know this? I may have missed it, but other than the OP assuming that this other man knew that the OP's girlfriend was in a committed relationship, can you show me where the OP discussed how he knew that the other man was fully informed about the status of the committed relationship (prior of course to the OP threatening the other man).


Ummm....I did post it.

The POS shook my hand while I was sitting there with her and her family at the f*cking funeral.

He was there with many other of her co-workers.


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## faithfulman (Jun 4, 2018)

Dyokemm said:


> Ummm....I did post it.
> 
> The POS shook my hand while I was sitting there with her and her family at the f*cking funeral.
> 
> He was there with many other of her co-workers.


Just like I said. Common sense shows this guy knew of your relationship and was a dirtbag. 

And she was no better. Probably worse.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

faithfulman said:


> Just like I said. Common sense shows this guy knew of your relationship and was a dirtbag.
> 
> And she was no better. Probably worse.


Yep.....both of them equally crappy people.

His only ‘advantage’ was he was not doing it behind a gf/W’s back.

Her only extenuating circumstance was her very real and severe depression.....watching someone die from that disease is absolutely horrifying and sad.....I know that I would NEVER put my family through it if I got that diagnosis.

But that is no excuse for betraying your partner.....so she had to go.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> Ummm....I did post it.
> 
> The POS shook my hand while I was sitting there with her and her family at the f*cking funeral.
> 
> He was there with many other of her co-workers.


If shaking the other man’s hand once at a funeral when he was there with other coworkers is all that you got, then the other man barely knows you, and it is entirely possible that he did not know the full level of your relationship with your girlfriend. It would be reasonable for him to believe her when your girlfriend minimizes her relationship with.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

TRy said:


> If shaking the other man’s hand once at a funeral when he was there with other coworkers is all that you got, then the other man barely knows you, and it is entirely possible that he did not know the full level of your relationship with your girlfriend. It would be reasonable for him to believe her when your girlfriend minimizes her relationship with.


You really think there weren’t words exchanged?

She introduced him to me as her fiancé even though it was not yet official LMAO

He shook my hand and said, “I am so sorry for your loss.”

Now why would he say ‘your loss’ knowing it was HER dad, not mine, if he wasn’t basically acknowledging it was loss as a couple?

As far as I know, she didn’t minimize our relationship.....when she confessed everything 9 months later hoping if she came clean and begged, I would take her back, she said they never discussed me or our relationship.

He was all about how sorry he felt for her, and how special she was, and how he ‘hurt’ seeing her in so much pain....etc, etc.

True?

I don’t know.....if she did minimize it, then I doubt she would have admitted it while begging to come back.

On the other hand, she was confessing because she knew I had told her she was a liar and does she really think I am that stupid when she tried to claim only ‘once’ making out when I confronted/ended it......she claimed 9months later when she begged that she knew she had to admit all if I was ever going to give her another chance.

I knew from the moment she stopped by that there was no way that was happening.....but I did engage her enough to get her ‘story’ and excuse......call it closure or whatever, but I wanted to hear from her own mouth what she had done.

Of course, there was probably more, based on almost every thread on this or other sites.

After she finished and begged again, I told her the simple truth.....

I didn’t hate her (that feeling disappeared when my anger flared out about 2 months post DDay)......but I had nothing but contempt for her for what she had done.....and had absolutely zero desire to ever see her again.

She left in tears.....went to a mutual friend’s house....and from what I heard later, had a complete emotional breakdown.

Heard from another friend present at the house that she actually wailed through her sobs that I “acted like our relationship meant nothing to him....like he never loved me ever.......how can he act like we never existed?”

I laughed out loud when I heard about that.....

Yeah.....I was the one who acted like our years together meant nothing.

Cheaters are delusional.

But back to the main point that started this response.

I am not sure TRy why you are so committed to excusing OM from being scumbags (if they know about the relationship).

I already conceded the point that you are free to feel/believe this......no one can tell you what your opinions need to be.

That said, you are not going to convince me to change mine.

I admit to being a little irked when you started speculating things I know to be untrue about what went down with my ex (and I apologize about getting snippy).......but at this point, maybe its just time to agree to disagree.

I will never agree with the view you hold about an AP....and apparently you aren’t going to agree with mine.

Let’s leave it at that.

And to reiterate the main point my OP was about......

When a WS blows through a SPECIFIC warning from the BS about the (future) AP, and goes ahead to have the A anyway.....THAT is one of the details that really irritates me in other’s situations/threads.

It is on the WS......

But I think it was Conan who pointed out the contempt (which I share based on my own experience) for ‘orbiters’ who are sniffing around trying to engage a SO into an A.......if YOU see things differently, that is perfectly fine.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> But I think it was Conan who pointed out the contempt (which I share based on my own experience) for ‘orbiters’ who are sniffing around trying to engage a SO into an A.......if YOU see things differently, that is perfectly fine.


Over time and many threads, I have probably agreed with 90% of your posts, but as often happens, it is the small percentage of where we differ that we find ourselves spending most of our time debating. So I agree that we should just agree to disagree on these items.

That being said, I too hate the “orbiters” that regularly try to enter my wife’s life from time to time, that is until she sets them straight LOL!


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TRy said:


> Dyokemm said:
> 
> 
> > But I think it was Conan who pointed out the contempt (which I share based on my own experience) for ‘orbiters’ who are sniffing around trying to engage a SO into an A.......if YOU see things differently, that is perfectly fine.
> ...


 For the record, I think most logical people will agree that being married is in fact very different from not being married. Good grief


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Dyokemm said:


> .......but at this point, maybe its just time to agree to disagree.


Probably for the best.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I don't understand why your on so much about it. You would do yourself a huge favor to just move on. Until then you are literally just smashing yourself in the face
with a hammer. 

Why do you care so much about someone that you should be happy is out of your life?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> I don't understand why your on so much about it. You would do yourself a huge favor to just move on. Until then you are literally just smashing yourself in the face
> with a hammer.
> 
> Why do you care so much about someone that you should be happy is out of your life?


I don't believe that was the purpose for his thread.

I believe he is just discussing an interesting, if aggravating, subject about wingnuts who stick their hands in the fire right after being warned about it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

There's another forum where one of the first questions you are asked if you say your SO cheated is "Are you married?"

If the answer is "no," they don't call it an affair. A betrayal, yes. But not an affair.

I thought it was a little pedantic at first, but they have a point.

I'm sorry, yes it hurt when my boyfriend of 2 years cheated on me.

But in no way would I be arrogant and clueless enough to think it matched the pain and impact of a spouse who cheats on another spouse.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I don't believe that was the purpose for his thread.
> 
> I believe he is just discussing an interesting, if aggravating, subject about wingnuts who stick their hands in the fire right after being warned about it.



fair enough !!!


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> I don't understand why your on so much about it. You would do yourself a huge favor to just move on. Until then you are literally just smashing yourself in the face
> with a hammer.
> 
> Why do you care so much about someone that you should be happy is out of your life?


I suggest you reread the entire thread, and see what led to the retelling of so much detail about my history.

As I said at the end of my last post, and in my OP.....this entire post was about how an aspect of some A’s really ticks me off......namely when the BS warns the WS specifically about the very individual who becomes the AP before the A ever begins....

And then related why briefly because of my situation....

Even mentioned that it was reading Blazer’s recent thread about his W’s interactions with some writers through text/email, and her responses to his concerns, that sort of triggered it......and my hope he doesn’t have to experience the same thing I did in his future.....

That’s it....

All the rest of the details of the story came about only because some other posters asserted their opinion (which I disagree with) that I was wrong to have been upset and called OM a POS because only ‘true’ M needs to be respected.

I disagreed and provided more details to demonstrate why.....especially after there was some totally false speculation about what went down suggesting somehow that I was lying about what happened.

I never intended to go on about the details of my situation....didn’t think I would have to.....

And I am certainly not still obsessing over it so many years later.

But I also didn’t expect that I would keep being challenged/argued with about whether I:

A) had any right to have been upset in the first place because I was never in a ‘true’ M

B) was totally wrong when I had referred to OM as a POS because he had known about the relationship


THAT is what led to all these posts/details.....not because I care anymore.

So what was at the start just a simple statement about an aspect of some A’s that I find particularly irritating turned into this nonsense because some people felt a need to keep pushing views I simply disagree with.....

Which is fine.....I definitely don’t have the right to say my own opinions are the ‘end all, be all’ about infidelity.....

but when some people started insinuating that certain things I posted made no sense.....or even worse offering up baseless speculations about what really happened......I shared more of what happened to explain why I disagreed with their opinions....

Now I have you saying that I must be obsessed about what happened and not moving on.....

So once again....and for the last d*mn time.....I have now repeated why my OP came about......

If someone wants to ignore what my original point was (WS who ignore specific warnings from BS and have the A anyway).....and wants to keep going on about how they think I was wrong to expect fidelity because I wasn’t actually M yet.....or I am wrong to refer to OM as a POS because he owed me nothing, or whatever other reason they suggest.....

In other words.....if they want to keep re-litigating the d*mn details of something that happened ages ago and I am long over......then my suggestion is to leave it unsaid.

I am over rehashing/arguing about whether people think I really had the right to be angry at my ex because we weren’t M yet....or how I am wrong to label OM a POS.

You want to argue about those points....please take it somewhere else or start your own thread on that topic.

You want to discuss whether or not you find WS’s who ignore specific warnings from BS’s prior to the A to be a particularly annoying trigger in postings.....by all means stay and post here.

(yes this nonsense is really starting to irritate the h*ll out of me)


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I don't believe that was the purpose for his thread.
> 
> I believe he is just discussing an interesting, if aggravating, subject about wingnuts who stick their hands in the fire right after being warned about it.


Thank you Conan.....

This is the EXACT point.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Dyokemm said:


> )..............



Fair enough and well explained. I'll admit I didn't read it through as I tend to lose interest as soon as people start going off the deep end.

It's a bit unfortunate that you showed up at this time as things seem to have taken a turn for the worse lately around TAM.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> Fair enough and well explained. I'll admit I didn't read it through as I tend to lose interest as soon as people start going off the deep end.
> 
> It's a bit unfortunate that you showed up at this time as things seem to have taken a turn for the worse lately around TAM.


No problems.....

Believe it or not, I even really like the posters I was disagreeing with......

And they have every right to their own views.

I am just over arguing about those points.....as I said to TRy.....lets just agree to disagree.....

Then wanted to get things back to the original topic.

LMAO....of course Conan does it far more succinctly than me.


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## Why Bother (Apr 26, 2019)

It is very easy to get off track from the OP., I can relate in that you saw things thst the OM was doing that you seen as a means of going after your partner. You even warned gf/w and they ignored your warning and continued to allow themselves to not protect the relationship you had and was protecting. 

By noticing the vulture circling you were seeing behaviors that you are aware of because you know men. Just as a woman would notice anotjer woman circling. 

They play dumb and deny that anyrhing is going on because they hace already gotten fixated on the AP and it may hace already been happening by the time you saw what was going on. 

You gave your gf/w the opportunity to shut things down. Instead she continued. This was because she made a choice to do so.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Why Bother said:


> It is very easy to get off track from the OP., I can relate in that you saw things thst the OM was doing that you seen as a means of going after your partner. You even warned gf/w and they ignored your warning and continued to allow themselves to not protect the relationship you had and was protecting.
> 
> By noticing the vulture circling you were seeing behaviors that you are aware of because you know men. Just as a woman would notice anotjer woman circling.
> 
> ...


It was definitely her choice......that’s why she is an ex.

And yes, your post hit on the exact reason I still find it irritating to read about similar situations.

If a BS is NOT totally clueless/checked out themselves, they usually notice and recognize the shady behavior of the ‘vulture’ (good term)......and most then address the concern with their WS.

Is the WS gaslighting or in denial when they Pooh-Pooh their BS’s concerns?

If its gaslighting, then IMO the WS has already made the decision to cheat and its going to happen regardless.

If it is simple denial, then why in the h*ll don’t they end up walking/running away when the ‘vulture’ eventually makes their move?

To be fair....some do.

I have read threads over the years where a WS in total denial about who the AP is, will suddenly ‘wake up’ when the AP’s intentions become clear.....

There is a recent thread here from a BH whose WW had an EA a few years ago with a slimy doctor from the hospital she previously worked at.

He shared that a PA never happened because OM finally pushed a boundary so far that his WW suddenly woke up and realized her BH’s suspicions about this POS had been spot on....and she immediately ended it.

I felt relieved for him.....

Few things are more infuriating for a BS (IMO) than catching a PA with an AP they had seen coming a mile away.....like a train headlight at the end of a tunnel.

They tell their WS a train is coming hoping they will get off the tracks......but no.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

OnTheFly said:


> ah, you must be Canadian....we have a tendency to apologize where it isn't warranted.
> 
> Probably for the best. Despite numerous posts adding a metric tonne of backstory which only bolstered the original post, TRy has just doubled down again and again. Why that is......I won't speculate.


Once Dyokemm and I decide to "agree to disagree" and move on, it is not helpful when you continue the debate by calling me out by name. Although I have a very good response, in the interest of moving on, I will not post it. Please be part of the agree to disagree and move on team.:grin2:


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Double


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## Why Bother (Apr 26, 2019)

Most the time,it is gaslighting they are already aware of whst id happening and by the time,the BS sees whar is happening their need to deny has already started. You are crazy, paranoid,why would you think that, etc., they are in deep and dont have the cuts to be honest with anyone not even themselves.

May times the vulture lets the BS know that they are intrudong on the AP nee territory by giving dirty looks, snide comments, or being the opposite.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

TRy said:


> Once Dyokemm and I decide to "agree to disagree" and move on, it is not helpful when you continue the debate by calling me out by name. Although I have a very good response, in the interest of moving on, I will not post it. Please be part of the agree to disagree and move on team.:grin2:


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

Opinions can span the spectrum of being 100% true to 100% false/baseless and all points in-between.

Your opinion in this thread was shown numerous times to be baseless each time the OP gave more backstory.

If there is a forum rule that says once an ''agree to disagree'' is uttered that all commentary must stop, I'll oblige.

It's funny how this thread got to six pages, when it was just an incredibly valid comment on an important aspect of WS/BS dynamics. 

Kavanaugh had less trouble with the senate than the OP had here with you.

Anyway, lets agree to disagree and move on:smile2:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dyokemm said:


> Every BS has different aspects of affairs that really trigger/anger them.
> 
> For me it is this, probably because it was a major factor of my anger when I broke up with my LTgf after busting her cheating:
> 
> ...


I think the fallacy here is to think of affairs and AP's as things people need to be warned about or against like a speed trap or bad milk. Everyone who is emotionally and mentally intelligent at even a teenage level, knows exactly what they are doing and it's wrong when they have an affair they just do it anyway. There is some point where they know they are past the point where they are braking their commitment and they still go for it.

If your cheating spouse tells you otherwise they are just lying to you. If you want to believe that they didn't know what they were doing then you are just lying to yourself.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

OnTheFly said:


> Your opinion in this thread was shown numerous times to be baseless each time the OP gave more backstory.


I tried to resist, but I just have to call bull here.:bsflag:

OK, now I will resume moving on.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I think the fallacy here is to think of affairs and AP's as things people need to be warned about or against like a speed trap or bad milk. Everyone who is emotionally and mentally intelligent at even a teenage level, knows exactly what they are doing and it's wrong when they have an affair they just do it anyway. There is some point where they know they are past the point where they are braking their commitment and they still go for it.
> 
> If your cheating spouse tells you otherwise they are just lying to you. If you want to believe that they didn't know what they were doing then you are just lying to yourself.


I believe that this is normally the case.....they are gaslighting and know full well what is going on....and just decide to do it anyway.

There are a few that are in denial though.

And, I would argue, there is even a space somewhat in between......

What I mean is a WS who knows full well there is flirting and attraction going on......but is CERTAIN that there is no chance of a PA.....and will continue the seduction dance almost in some perverse attempt to ‘prove’ they are right about that and their BS is wrong.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> What I mean is a WS who knows full well there is flirting and attraction going on......but is CERTAIN that there is no chance of a PA.....and will continue the seduction dance almost in some perverse attempt to ‘prove’ they are right about that and their BS is wrong.


Although I think that this is sometimes the case, I think that it is also sometimes the case that they like the attention and think that they can use the other party for attention without the other party insisting that it go further. The problem is that if they get addicted to the attention, they are not willing to let it go, and then all bets are off.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

TRy said:


> Although I think that this is sometimes the case, I think that it is also sometimes the case that they like the attention and think that they can use the other party for attention without the other party insisting that it go further. The problem is that if they get addicted to the attention, they are not willing to let it go, and then all bets are off.


Great point.....

And in either case, a good lesson that continuing to play with fire will eventually get you burned.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Dyokemm said:


> Great point.....
> 
> And in either case, a good lesson that continuing to play with fire will eventually get you burned.


But if you are committed to your relationship, and if you are emotionally healthy, and all that good stuff you know not to play with fire.

I had an old ex tell me "look I need to get laid", so let's go. Now, at this point in my life, I am more emotionally healthy, I am in a great relationship, planning on getting married, yada, yada...

I told her in no uncertain terms hell no. I cannot do those things anymore and it is just not going to happen. No way would I ever do that. 5 or more years ago, I would have done it...


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

BluesPower said:


> I had an old ex tell me "look I need to get laid", so let's go. Now, at this point in my life, I am more emotionally healthy, I am in a great relationship, planning on getting married, yada, yada...
> 
> I told her in no uncertain terms hell no. I cannot do those things anymore and it is just "not going to happen. No way would I ever do that. 5 or more years ago, I would have done it...


Thank you for your honesty in admitting that "5 or more years ago" you would have done it. Many people falsely believe that they are invulnerable when it comes to resisting temptation. Ironically, this false sense of invulnerability makes them more susceptible to cheating then if they recognized that they have human weaknesses. Many cheaters thought that they could safely cake eat and enjoy the attention of a person pursuing them, thinking that it is harmless fun because they would never actually cheat. Good martial boundaries recognize this, and try to reduce the odds of such situations developing. BTW, your honesty with your self on this, is why your odds of cheating are low.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

TRy said:


> Thank you for your honesty in admitting that "5 or more years ago" you would have done it. Many people falsely believe that they are invulnerable when it comes to resisting temptation. Ironically, this false sense of invulnerability makes them more susceptible to cheating then if they recognized that they have human weaknesses. Many cheaters thought that they could safely cake eat and enjoy the attention of a person pursuing them, thinking that it is harmless fun because they would never actually cheat. Good martial boundaries recognize this, and try to reduce the odds of such situations developing. BTW, your honesty with your self on this, is why your odds of cheating are low.


But the difference is that I am in a relationship that I care about. I have no desire to be with any other woman besides my F. 

If I was not in a serious Relationship, I would. But I will say this... I will never cheat on anyone again, for any reason, ever. Also, my list of BS that I will not put up with is longer and hair trigger. 

I will just end it and go on to the next one. But I am not some paragon of virtue, I am just happy where I am at.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

sokillme said:


> *I think the fallacy here is to think of affairs and AP's as things people need to be warned about or against like a speed trap or bad milk. * Everyone who is emotionally and mentally intelligent at even a teenage level, knows exactly what they are doing and it's wrong when they have an affair they just do it anyway. There is some point where they know they are past the point where they are braking their commitment and they still go for it.
> 
> If your cheating spouse tells you otherwise they are just lying to you. If you want to believe that they didn't know what they were doing then you are just lying to yourself.


 This is true except when the future BS picks up on it before the future WS does. Men know men's intentions better than women as women know women's intentions better than men. I find it humorous around here when the opposite sex acts as if they know more about the other's behavior.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rubix Cubed said:


> This is true except when the future BS picks up on it before the future WS does. Men know men's intentions better than women as women know women's intentions better than men. I find it humorous around here when the opposite sex acts as if they know more about the other's behavior.


Honestly, mate guarding like this is just common sense.

Not everyone is experienced or worldly enough to not avoid a compromising situation sometimes.

If I was still getting drunk when I ran into the frisky Irish lady and Mrs. C didn't warn me........ I might have woken up to a world of pain.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Men know men's intentions better than women as women know women's intentions better than men.


I grew up with three older sisters and hanging around with them when they were with their girlfriends, also being raised by a single mother, the only people who think that are men. Trust me, I was privy to many conversations and because I had a good mother and sisters they told me as much. Unless they are very stupid or were raised by wolves women know when men are coming on to them they just play dumb to get their husbands off their back. After the fact to act like they had "no idea" that this guy was investing all this time and emotional energy texting and joking and telling them how nice they looked was into them. "I thought he was trying to mentor me!" Yeah right, they let their husbands believe this because that is easier then saying, I wanted this. I mean there is a reason why they hide their phones, delete their chats, change their passwords. They don't do that with their girlfriends. 

Too many men think of women like they are children, and women know this and take advantage of it. Believe this to your own detriment.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Honestly, mate guarding like this is just common sense.
> 
> Not everyone is experienced or worldly enough to not avoid a compromising situation sometimes.
> 
> If I was still getting drunk when I ran into the frisky Irish lady and Mrs. C didn't warn me........ I might have woken up to a world of pain.


A drunken mistake is different, but a long term office affair for intense doesn't happen because a women or man is too naive to know where it's going. There is a point where the conversation turns from just honest talk to one person trying to pick up another and at that point there are two choices, stop it or move forward.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

sokillme said:


> A drunken mistake is different, but a long term office affair for intense doesn't happen because a women or man is too naive to know where it's going. There is a point where the conversation turns from just honest talk to one person trying to pick up another and at that point there are two choices, stop it or move forward.


I'm extremely experienced and worldly and I totally agree with you.

There are many who are unarmed, unprepared and somewhat vulnerable to dark situations of all kinds with infidelity being only one.

Forewarned is forearmed and knowledge is power but many are ignorant and fall, unintentionally, into a compromised situation.

It doesn't alleviate their guilt or culpability but it does allow that they aren't vile to their core, just really stupid and untrustworthy until they change and grow.

Some cheaters are pretty vile to their center while others don't even know how they got to where they are and hate themselves for it. There is every shade and level of evil involved in cheating from gullible and naive to reprehensible manipulators.

There are naive but maybe not so bad guys out there who might think they know what tough is and how a man should behave. They walk tall and act brazen while thinking they are doing what it takes to live up to being a man.

Sometimes they go through life never being contradicted in their thinking and their bluster is never put to the test and they live happy lives, confident in their illusions.

Sometimes however, they meet someone like me. Someone who really knows tough, how to eat pain and deal crippling damage and death in seconds. Then they find themselves in way over their head in a world they couldn't imagine and their life is in another's power.

Ignorance isn't a good excuse but it is reality and it does nail a lot of folks in many arenas, not just infidelity.

I wouldn't reconcile unless their was very rare circumstances. I don't lump all cheaters into the same box however.

Some go looking for trouble but others weren't equipped to fully realize that they were getting into the danger zone.

It might be hard for you to realize that not everyone is aware of danger like you but I guarantee that a lot of people just aren't.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I'm extremely experienced and worldly and I totally agree with you.
> 
> There are many who are unarmed, unprepared and somewhat vulnerable to dark situations of all kinds with infidelity being only one.
> 
> ...


You don't know how you will react until you face death that is true. 

I agree with this. To a point but I think the kind of situation you are describing is very very rare. First most of the time to get in that kind of drunken one night stand situation usually means you are out getting drunk with the opposite sex. I mean being a married man I can't think of the last time I was drunk with the opposite sex besides my wife or any situation where that would be possible. I don't go to clubs or hang out at bars with single people, or hang out with lots of women unless on my job, BECAUSE I AM MARRIED. :slap:

I think of the one post where the guys wife had sex with a guy, she was his manager on a business trip. That doesn't just happen, there has to already be some kind of lead up to that, some kind of familiarity that got them close enough to have the drunken sex thing happen. 

Or the one where the men or women go out and act like they are single. Yeah you have a one night stand there, you know what you are doing. 

So yes it happens but in the great majority of the cases you are already at a point where you are pushing the boundaries of you marriage. 

The post we have going now on another thread really is the closest to how I could see this happening and the thing that really gives her a pass in my mind is that he husband already cheated. But she confessed the next day. That to me is the kind of person where it makes sense to try if you are up for it. 

All of this is very different then the spouse who is texting for hours with their co-worker talking about their social media, TV shows and work gossip. Generally acting like two people in the very early stages of dating. Don't give me that crap about how you didn't think they liked you that way. Who are you kidding. 

That's how I see it.


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