# Tell me why (if you know me well) ....



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I would want to date the crazy client boss who is running around 6 ways to Sunday trying to get out of a contract for a deliverable whose project manager and programmers jumped ship and who sleeps in his office on a futon because he 'doesn't like his apartment in the next city' has no car and sends his laundry out and doesn't have access to a kitchen and hardly has time for a relationship and isn't willing to commit...

vs.

Nice guy who believes in God, has 5 kids and wanted more (I have two younger ones), owns his own business (successfully) which is stable and next to his home, has time for coffee/lunch/dating, brought me a nice little minimalist Christmas tree over to my apartment and set it up (with one of his daughters who is beautiful and lovely in character and has some sort of speech deficit, at the very least, i.e. parents a child with a handicap and wanted to make that clear to me I suppose...) chats with me via text, shrugged off that I didn't want to do coffee because I was dating client/boss guy and said it wasn't wrong to do coffee, no problem...on his side anyway...) and can hold a decent conversation, is self-aware and a good planner, financially stable and interested...he hasn't traveled a lot but is personable, his business is in construction - geotechnical services. He is divorced, his wife I guess wasn't happy, he admits he used to work too much and doesn't so much any more, he has his kids frequently and cooks with/for them...

Now it's obvious to me which guy is a better choice, right? But the idea of dating someone who is in the same career field as me is really enticing...however, it seems he exerts a lot of energy on manifesting what amounts to a good stream of income for the business (maybe, but I think not really lately...) and what else has he manifested, a futon mattress in his office? It doesn't even fold up into a sofa, he just parks it up against the wall, and he hasn't even had time to put stuff in storage he needs to...in effect his tiny life is unmanageable. 

So, I want to pick apart my attraction for boss man vs. nice guy ...my friend started on me today at lunch with this line of thinking and continued during coffee...so I figured why quit when I'm ahead...I am beginning to see the natural and healthy benefits of a good relationship...there is always going to be compromise but being understood and valued is most important...and what is it that I want to compromise, really. Giving up a bit of excitement and daring in the business world for someone who actually knows how to run a successful business, and the thrill of the chase for a warm fire and coziness and genuine affection... my big thing is exposing myself lock stock and barrel and being adored for who I am, which is what happened with the boss client guy, as it turns out he was dating other women but then wanted me too and now has been spreading himself thin, he didn't discuss this with me I had to bludgeon it out of him by digging my heels in.  He has been involved in past with controlling women and I can see why. Probably he has made them crazy! I already upped my sedative on account of getting some healthy separation between me and him, which I succeeded in doing but of course busted his ego a bit. He then referred to my past which I had disclosed to him, trying to make it out like wanting a committed relationship meant not trusting him and reliving my past where someone was trying to take advantage of me. I countered by saying that my past has forged me not destroyed me and I got where I got to - a good place - without support of family or friends and with kids in tow as well (one with disability) and doing quite well for myself. I have access to laundry, sleep on a good mattress, can get my own meals, have a car, a manageable schedule, going to school full time, pay my bills, steady work, plenty of relaxation time, finished therapy (more than once, I had to beg to stay, lol and they allowed me a few more sessions...) definitely not co-dependent any more and am thinking about going to Mongolia for a month this summer as I'll have the wherewithal as well as the time. I don't think wanting a committed relationship and questioning someone (and then finding out he's dating other women too while getting it on with me!!!! no more by the way....) is a sign of being messed up on account of my past! 

So, anyway, most people who are regulars know me pretty well, so explain to me what my psychological hurdles are with Mr. Nice Guy who is very cute, very local, very available, and very ready for relationship vs. Mr. Messed Up Boss Guy. 

I would really like to see my way through to the warm cozy fire. It's where I was most happy when I was living with friends prior to enlisting in the military, we had a big family and although it later proved to be messed up, my functioning in it was one of happy days. So I fail to see why i wouldn't be happy with that now. Only I am leery of it. I don't want to get trapped and lose my other dreams.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> So, anyway, most people who are regulars know me pretty well, so explain to me what my psychological hurdles are with Mr. Nice Guy who is very cute, very local, very available, and very ready for relationship vs. Mr. Messed Up Boss Guy.


Is it because Mr. Nice Guy is TOO available? Too nice? Too understanding? Not an alpha so less attractive?

Sounds like he's too much of a pleaser instead of being a "Good Man with an Edge".


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

zillard said:


> Is it because Mr. Nice Guy is TOO available? Too nice? Too understanding? Not an alpha so less attractive?
> 
> Sounds like he's too much of a pleaser instead of being a "Good Man with an Edge".


Perhaps. But what's wrong with being a pleaser so long as it doesn't equate to being a pushover? And would an edge just be frustrating in a relationship...always wondering if you're going to have to jump through some kind of hoop to get your needs met instead of just stating what they are and accepting if they can be met, or if they're just acknowledged and a compromise is reached? 

My goal is to have a pleasant and loving family home life...
However, pushover would really bother me...
He's probably not a pushover since he does run a business successfully, it would be difficult to do that if he were.
I'm almost thinking he is the kind of person who won't change his 'game' to be something other than he really is, in order to engage a woman...and might be confident just taking the long road of being nice and drama free...

I'm trying to open up a dialog so I can understand why my attraction lies in something that might not be where my goals are...


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I'm trying to open up a dialog so I can understand why my attraction lies in something that might not be where my goals are...


Thrill of the hunt? Boss is less available and more enticing because you have to work for it, so despite his faults you respect him more. He's dating others and you really aren't ok with that or you wouldn't have pried so hard. 

Nice family man is completely available and so no thrill there. He seems ok with you dating others but deep down think he might not be because you are not re: boss man, so you respect him less for not saying - hey, whoa. Date me or get out of here - I won't chase you, I'm too busy. Hinting at some level of low self esteem, validated by the fact that his ex wasn't happy. You don't seem convinced that he ISN'T a pushover. Nor do you seem convinced that YOU aren't either.

No offense intended, just how I see it from here.


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Co dependents typically find nice people boring. Try to push past you initial feelings and give the guy a chance. I think you'll find that you are attracted to people to are emotionally unavailable and those are the folks that will end up causing you the most pain in the end.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Too Little Too Late? said:


> Co dependents typically find nice people boring. Try to push past you initial feelings and give the guy a chance. I think you'll find that you are attracted to people to are emotionally unavailable and those are the folks that will end up causing you the most pain in the end.


Yep, "recovered" co-dependent and boss/client guy seems to have narcissistic tendencies. To my benefit, I dug my heels in and started asking questions and advocating for my needs (unapologetically) because I felt "spiritually nauseous" one day...after boss/client failed to respond to an email that was of a borderline committed/romantic nature. I have called him out on his non-response.... I think it bothers him or maybe confuses/frustrates him that I went along so easily and then put on the brakes as soon as it didn't feel right. He seems like he can always get his way through being 'helping', whereas I'm like, I didn't ask for help, and you insulted me both by dating other people and not being honest when we had a talk that would have allowed him to state non-exclusivity (and he chose not to) and by implying that my life needs help (it does not, other than what I specifically ask for.) He brought up my past, which I had disclosed to him in order to explain why I do not have close family ties...as soon as he wasn't getting his way...and implied that I was psychologically damaged. Of course I wasn't buying it, how could I be psychologically damaged when I am looking out for my needs (sex in committed relationship, honesty...wanting a committed relationship...not wanting to take on too much work in order to look out for my emotional and physical health, etc...plus I have 'graduated' from therapy, and was more than happy to bond with him...he only had problems with it when I outed him from not having disclosed to me that he is seeing other women...and probably having sex with them too, which is definitely not okay with me.) It may be for others, just does not do me any good. 

I have a list of stuff to talk about with the nice guy. We get along just fine...and I tend to protect him as I won't date him seriously until I really feel like I can date him seriously, I don't want to lead him on and that's why I told him I was dating the boss/client guy. Because I don't like to two-time and I stupidly thought I could handle the sex (well, I was under the impression that it was exclusive, to be honest...and not for lack of discussion...boss seems to be good at lying by omission...)


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

Is one more aesthetically pleasing to you than the other?


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## Too Little Too Late? (Sep 2, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Yep, "recovered" co-dependent and boss/client guy seems to have narcissistic tendencies. To my benefit, I dug my heels in and started asking questions and advocating for my needs (unapologetically) because I felt "spiritually nauseous" one day...after boss/client failed to respond to an email that was of a borderline committed/romantic nature. I have called him out on his non-response.... I think it bothers him or maybe confuses/frustrates him that I went along so easily and then put on the brakes as soon as it didn't feel right. He seems like he can always get his way through being 'helping', whereas I'm like, I didn't ask for help, and you insulted me both by dating other people and not being honest when we had a talk that would have allowed him to state non-exclusivity (and he chose not to) and by implying that my life needs help (it does not, other than what I specifically ask for.) He brought up my past, which I had disclosed to him in order to explain why I do not have close family ties...as soon as he wasn't getting his way...and implied that I was psychologically damaged. Of course I wasn't buying it, how could I be psychologically damaged when I am looking out for my needs (sex in committed relationship, honesty...wanting a committed relationship...not wanting to take on too much work in order to look out for my emotional and physical health, etc...plus I have 'graduated' from therapy, and was more than happy to bond with him...he only had problems with it when I outed him from not having disclosed to me that he is seeing other women...and probably having sex with them too, which is definitely not okay with me.) It may be for others, just does not do me any good.
> 
> I have a list of stuff to talk about with the nice guy. We get along just fine...and I tend to protect him as I won't date him seriously until I really feel like I can date him seriously, I don't want to lead him on and that's why I told him I was dating the boss/client guy. Because I don't like to two-time and I stupidly thought I could handle the sex (well, I was under the impression that it was exclusive, to be honest...and not for lack of discussion...boss seems to be good at lying by omission...)


Never fully recovered...always in recovery..just notice the signs and can self correct better..hopefully.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

sayjellybeans said:


> Is one more aesthetically pleasing to you than the other?


No.
In fact, although I was initially attracted to boss/client he is not very tall, a little overweight, and talks and moves too fast for my liking. He has also been flippant in group discussions, and has been on Lipitor as well as experienced some kind of depressive episode, where it looks as though he 'soldiered on' vs. giving himself time to heal. He doesn't really take care of himself the way he should, and remarked he would 'rather be doing something with his brain' whereas he also commented about being overweight and balding. He is 39. However, he has a compelling personality that is difficult to say no to once he starts the approach. However, I have said no. He doesn't appear to like hearing that.

The other guy is 54 and very pleasant looking though I haven't been around him enough to determine if ruggedly handsome or not. I think maybe his eyes are kinder vs. more ummmm 'appreciative' he doesn't ever compliment me on my clothes whereas boss-guy does, he always pays me a compliment of one kind or another on my clothes, or my hair, or something like that. It's as though he is programmed to say that, like one of the chatbots that computational linguists like to program with a personality :-| I know I look great and so the compliments are not as effective on me as he might think they are. I just accept them, I am not even slightly overweight and take care of my health and know it. At 48 I am much younger than his 39. lol.
Anyway, nice guy is trying actively to lose 10 pounds. But does not seem overweight, and talked about his health and age and taking care of himself emotionally and physically when his wife left him. He moves more slowly like at a normal speed and is careful to watch the time and to communicate nicely about everything...likely he is sensitive but makes an effort to have a thick skin, even though he doesn't...so it seems he is really good at emotional buffering. He is a Republican and not sure what he sees in me. He must see something but I'm not sure what it is. Sometimes I hate being intelligent and attractive because I don't know if men are after the attractive and intelligent bits or if they really like me as a person, for how I think and believe and manage my life given its many constraints. 

That's what I can't figure out, why I put all the moves on boss-guy when I never put moves on a guy! Ever, it was a first for me, that touching and all the other weird sh*t that women are supposed to do to 'signal' a guy, I did. I have not done that with nice guy. But I allowed him to bring over a Christmas tree for me, which was a sort of signalling that I'm willing to let him into my personal life just a little bit, and to do something for me. We are not dating, we've been out for lunch, texted a bit about stuff, and coffee. I told him he could call me during the holidays when I will not have my kids, told him the dates, and did text to thank him for the tree, or in return to him apologizing that he thought it was a bit sparse (it pulls out a bit, so not that sparse...)

The thing is, it's not a choice between these two. I could meet someone else and be interested, right? I'm just trying to see if I should get boss-guy out of my romantic life. Even if he rallied now I would wonder if he was just doing that in order to get me hooked...so probably I will not have sex with him again and be careful not to get into situations where that will happen, I told him no more texting and emailing, I need and deserve phone calls. I told nice guy that if boss-guy could not do the things he needed to do to hold onto me, that I wasn't going to bend over backwards to make excuses and make it easy for him/help him in that respect. I'm willing to see him fail. He has never been married, has been engaged, and has it seems been in worse relationships than me, spent a load of money on the woman (for her education) and basically went the distance trying to make her happy, dressing down and so forth... Maybe he is a huge codependent and that's why he's stretched so thin, but in my view he is not taking good care of himself, and that's an issue. Yet he insists he is trying to 'help me' when he can't even sleep a solid night's sleep.

So, neither one is more attractive than the other, if I had to say that boss guy is less physically attractive but younger and more energetic, maybe too much so. It's what he does that pushes my buttons, and that is disturbing and frightening, you would think having ones buttons pushed and having great sex would be a good thing...but it hasn't worked out that way at all.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

It's either the boss guy is unavailable and that keeps you from being committed. 

or

You feel that you don't deserve a fully committed, loving relationship.

or

You aren't ready for one.


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I think maybe his eyes are kinder vs. more ummmm 'appreciative' he doesn't ever compliment me on my clothes whereas boss-guy does, he always pays me a compliment of one kind or another on my clothes, or my hair, or something like that. It's as though he is programmed to say that, like one of the chatbots that computational linguists like to program with a personality :-| I know I look great and so the compliments are not as effective on me as he might think they are.


This all seems contradictory. You know you're foxy, aren't affected by compliments, but nice guy gets points deducted for not being as vocally complimentary. (Btw, my ex would never compliment me, ever, even when getting dressed up nice to go out. And so I wondered what he really thought. So I'm not bashing the want for appreciation)



> The thing is, it's not a choice between these two. I could meet someone else and be interested, right? I'm just trying to see if I should get boss-guy out of my romantic life.


On paper, nice guy is awesome. He's even tolerant enough to listen to you talk about boss man. Is there no pounce factor? If not, you need to tell him Not likely you'll develop it considering how "nice" he really seems. And it wouldn't be prudent to test such a man. You'd not like yourself for it. If you don't really appreciate him fully now, I don't know why or how you would in the future. 

Letting go of boss-man... Girl... 
When you think of him, think of something else. TELL HIM it's over. 
But HNU, you know what you have to do. 

I saw this thread when you first posted it. My initial reaction was that you know all the answers (have noticed your astuteness when analyzing yourself). Or at least, they're hovering just below your consciousness. Putting your indecision on the forum is a good call, though. 

Did I mention that I'm on my second margarita?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

sayjellybeans said:


> This all seems contradictory. You know you're foxy, aren't affected by compliments, but nice guy gets points deducted for not being as vocally complimentary. (Btw, my ex would never compliment me, ever, even when getting dressed up nice to go out. And so I wondered what he really thought. So I'm not bashing the want for appreciation)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Keep on with the Margaritas. 

I am actually kind of developing a thing for the nice guy. Initially I didn't like him because he was talking about his business and finances and his ex. But then when texting talk turned to spiritual. And I did tell him that if boss guy cannot do what it takes to keep hold of me, it will be over. It's unlikely he can, or for very long. However nice guy does want to have drinks with me over the holidays. If nothing else he is a friend and the thing is, I know from experience with the guy friend I inherited from the brain hemorrhage boyfriend that there is a time period during developing friendship when I will actually go through some phase of attraction...that is I can develop an attraction by getting to know someone better and to the point where I know they are absolutely trustworthy. The downpoints to my inherited friend is that he does not really go the distance for his life, he muddles through...and has financial and house problems as well as health issues plus he loses track of time easily. I'm always amazed when I can coax him out of the house for a meal, he does like to go to movies and to meals when I ask, but it's always me who initiates. Over the summer he brought me a cooler and a rain/sun canopy when we were camping, my friends adored him and said why don't you marry (name)? 

I did lose that guy I dated over the summer, and am wondering if boss guy is going to get his sh*t together or not. I think that he was by all accounts from what he told me absolutely blown away by meeting me. If he thinks I'm quality he'll do what it takes to hold me for dating and I'll get a handle on whether he can get his act together. I'm trying to be non-judgemental but this time unlike with summer 'date'/relationship committed and gave it my all. I'm unlikely to do that right now, I really think I should keep sex out of the equation altogether having learned my lesson and also not commit to anyone and wait until someone wants a commitment and asks. 

Lord knows I have school and work and my kids and I can take myself out for a good time between my favorite restaurant, milongas, movies, fencing lessons, and I always have my inherited friend and other guy friend to fall back on for decent company.

I did delete all of boss man's emails and emails I sent to him, including all the business stuff which is irrelevant because he didn't act on any of the stuff/info I lined up for him on account of his inability to find the time to deal with anything other than getting out of his contract. And I deleted his contact info in my phone and all messages to and from. I'll wash my sheets tomorrow and call it good  He is away visiting his mom and then he is either going to be in Crete or he will be around but working. I told him to CALL me not text or email when he gets back and he is available and wants to get together for a date. I told him I'm through with texting and emailing as I'm on the computer all day and would like to have CONVERSATION not to have my email laying around for him to over-analyze (unsaid: every time things don't go his way because I have plans for myself, and opinions and feelings and boundaries...and needs.) He doesn't ever state his own needs, but that is not my problem! How does he think I can know what to do for him if he never says anything about what he likes (except physically). If he wants a relationship he is going to have to decide to have one. Otherwise we are going to have to get together to sort out the business stuff, if and when that happens. I do want the work and I do want my Mongolia project which can fund my trip and save me money plus give me a job that will take care of me that I'll be enthusiastic about as it's my own idea and project...for at least the next ten years. Including multiple trips back to Mongolia... so there is something to be said business wise for doing the project work he has, if his contract survives the non-delivery of product...and he doesn't go bankrupt. I poked around and besides this last loan he took out a loan for 5K a number of years ago for small businesses that otherwise couldn't get loans...so I know his business has been shaky, whereas I can always find work and it pays decently for decent people and I can do it from home. No worries on having work again in January, regardless of his offer (which pays more but is more involved and has deadline, and serious issues with the work that's been done to date.) As a business team we would be pretty well suited. As a relationship, probably not!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Margarita...probably reminded me that I was friends with my brain-hemorrhage boyfriend for 6 months before I fell for him and it was several more months before I was able to act on that. And even though I certainly wasn't physically attracted to him initially, I think that's why I was able to become friends/buddies with him, and that allowed me to fall for him. The sex was good and he treated me more than decently...and I know he had been dating other women and were getting them out of the picture in order to pay attention to me. I'm not sure about the boss guy. I went for an interview and fell for him that way. Apparently he is amazed and blown away by me. If that's the case, I don't have much to lose either way by establishing firm boundaries...I'm simply not going to enjoy sex if I know a guy is getting it on with other women or even dating them. It's not me, it's not like I can change my mind about that.


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

What's the issue HNU? That you're feeling more physical rather than relationship-y?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Nope. I was feeling relationship-y with this guy when I interviewed with him, and then became interested in him afterwards from follow up emails that got more personal...

Same thing with my brain hemorrhage friend guy...was not at all attracted to him but then connected over time, really got to know him, nice guy etc. had some issues but his attitude was really good and he was emotionally available and then it snuck up on me...bam. Fell for him and the feeling lasted about 6 months before I could even act on it. :-o

I would not have been attracted to boss guy except for our interview and what we talked about and his interest in me afterwards. Oh well, if he still feels the same way eventually he will get that I am really about quality and need quality. He is on vaca visiting his mom with his sister right now so the women folk will perhaps be able to be counted on...he probably told his sister about me when he was emailing me from the trip he had to go on to Asia etc. after our interview but before our first date. Hopefully they'll tell him like it is, if a woman doesn't want sex outside of a committed relationship, that's a GOOD sign, not a sign of a control freak. I cut him off to save my respect for him well what's left of it since he did have opportunity to tell me he had other women he was seeing. A**. It will take a lot for me to trust him again. But not un-salvagable however not anything I'd grovel for. 

I am definitely feeling that I want a relationship, I just don't want to give up what makes me, me. I know I don't really feel motivated by sex, physical attraction for me thankfully ONLY happens with someone I'm emotionally connected to, and only people who are available and not say cheating or whatever, and I would be nauseous at the thought of cheating, had every reason to with my lying cheating ex and just could not do it. Had loads of opportunity, even going out on a dinner date during separation after I'd decided on divorce was a very iffy thing for me. I would not have had sex except after filing for divorce and it was OVER. 

I actually want a relationship, but I don't want to STAGNATE. Stagnation is what I fear the most. But if I stop and don't panic I do find un-stagnation in my day to day life... so there is the disconnect. Between what I fear and what my reality is.

Somehow I have had a very exciting life and there is no need to think the excitement would stop if I was partnered up with a nice guy. I would have HEALTHIER excitement and be more comfortable celebrating various forms of success knowing it was wholistic and if I had my family around me to help me celebrate, including a supporting and loving husband. Know what I mean?

I really need to get back to the ideas I had as a kid/pre-adolescence about what a healthy relationship is, and figure out at what point I decided I was afraid of marriage. 

Marriage should equal freedom, not entrapment.
It should open up the doors to a whole bunch of good stuff.

My son invited me to his girlfriend's family's holiday party...her parents have been together for a long long time and the family is happy, I love that my son stays there and is close to them, and so grateful I will have my big family holiday via my son's emotional health (that is a large part of what I gave him, according to him 

So I can produce a young adult who is comfortable in a long-term committed relationship heading towards marriage...I MUST have that in me.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Well, I went to Candlelight Carol Sing at my Quaker Meetinghouse (all lit by candles, packed to the gills, usually we have maybe 8 people at meeting  and got my head screwed on right which is usually the case when I'm up there. I broke my rule of never having my cell phone on and emailed client-guy. I hope I did well! This is what I sent him, which is also another rule I'm breaking, which is keeping my correspondence private...

"At my Meetinghouse for Quaker Candlelight carol sing. I just can't understand why you thought I was the kind of person who could ever be okay with uncommitted sex. :-( It makes me feel deeply ashamed that I came across that way. My intellect and my beauty come from keeping my body and spirit firmly attached. I am still feeling nauseous about my mistake. I can't believe I got myself in that position for so long [note: it was 3 weeks...] before I paid attention to my intuitive clarity. [note: and figured out by very little clues and a lot of intuition and clarity that he was 'dating around' and not taking the relationship seriously...] I guess the question would not be who do you think you are but who do you think I am? Would you really want that kind of woman for yourself? That makes me very sad you would even want that sort of thing in your life. You should only have the best." [Note: he was disappointed in his prior long term relationships, was engaged before, and said he was completely blown away by me. Yah, and me being who I am depends on keeping my body and spirit in one place, not getting it on with someone who has two other women on the side!]

Anyway, the stuff in the [] is not part of my email to him. I hope I did well. It needed to be said. He has very low standards, and because of that, he deserved what he got before! And he does not deserve me, at least not with his present attitude. Merry Christmas. 

Edited to add...it was really good to be able to 'confess' to a couple of women one younger one elder in my Meeting about my spiritual mistake and to ask them to keep my clarity of body and mind in their thoughts. Yah, I veered off course, but I corrected quickly enough by paying attention to my symptoms. I think we first went out on November 29, so it's not as though I wasted loads of time on the guy. Just a lot of energy. I also got a sense of my worth as a person, which is actually quite a bit. I don't think he's very appreciative of being told that even with him, sex without commitment leads to being boring, dull and inconsequential and I'd do better purchasing a dildo. He demanded an apology...and for what, not wanting him to become boring dull and inconsequential? I don't think so!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm thinking about not even taking this guy on as a client.
I don't like the way he runs his business any more than I like the way he runs his personal life. He is on the verge of total chaos. Nothing he touches turns out to be quality, it only has the potential. Yuck.

I have university work I can do next term, and take on extra work with the time I had cleared for his work. I can develop my Mongolia idea on my own, from a research perspective with a business professor, publish, or prepare for publishing and use the research progress to get a job as a consultant with an investment firm as a country specialist, subscribe/buy this guy's patented product for use in the profit making  He won't even know it's me behind it. lol.

I just can't work for someone I've lost all respect for. He has the idea that he was 'helping me'. WTF. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a Quaker and it's not all about money, it's about integrity, simplicity, and a sane and manageable lifestyle that keeps body and spirit together. I don't need to bite off more than I can chew to hedge my bets (as he does) because I know what I do commit to is quality.

I've never had to go to a company and tell them I don't have their product on deadline...I found out he had to get a 5K business loan in 2009 under an SBA program that provides funding for companies that don't have credit to get loans on the open market. He had to take out a business loan recently for 100K, he applied for 200K. I think the business is about to come crashing down, like his life. Not my problem...

I'm going to continue doing my research work and enjoy the time I won't be spending solving his business problems for him. He described it as 'pushing money my way' I've never worked for anyone where my $50/hour wasn't valued...'pushing money'....excuse me?????????????????


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

I double like that post! ^^^^


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

sayjellybeans said:


> I double like that post! ^^^^


Thank you. It's really disappointing, but it's reality.
This guy just burns a lot of my energy, and doesn't replenish it in any way.

I had gone to see my Shaman a week ago Friday and then a few days after that got the sick feeling..which told me something just wasn't right, hence the interchange with him to do some truth-seeking, and finding out that he is just not the spiritually balanced person I thought he was. He has a basic avoidant personality and has had major health issues in the past, and does not do self-care the way he should. He also thinks that the business world has to be cruel and unforgiving, which is just not my experience. It's as though he lives in an entirely different world, some kind of parallel place that got connected with mine for a brief instant, and either let me into his or let him into mine...but having seen his world I know he doesn't fit in mine. It would take a miracle. I've already lost one relationship because the guy wasn't taking care of his health and stress issues. I don't need another. I'm not a rescuer, I'm a friend, and I can't be friends with someone who doesn't want to exist in my world. 

Where does he think I get my beauty and intellect and talent and cheerful disposition from? Does he think I get that stuff from ignoring the basic rules of existence...keep your body and your spirit in one place! Then you can be a complete person, and healthy and well, pleasantly content and optimistic. 

I hope I can attract the right person by standing my ground on these principles. My friend I had lunch with Thursday is right, I am too trusting.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Well, he emailed me back and said he didn't see it that way and that I am "creating illusions" (????????????) and he will speak by phone when he is not entertaining family. 

Nice (I'm being a little cynical.) I'm not even going to reply.
Fortunately, tomorrow I will be with family all day, and if he calls it will go to voicemail. Also I have my kids through the 26th, so unless he calls in the evening after they're sleeping (which tends to be late on vacations) there's no way I would have a discussion with him. He will have to be marginalized until I have time. And I have plans to go for drinks with the nice guy when my kids are with their dad between Christmas and New Year's. Keeping my options open. 

I'm thinking I will not make working for this guy a priority. I'm happy with my university and pure research work. It's a sure thing. Vs. this production work that is an absolute mess. Double the rate if I do. And it seems like it will be a mess so he better be prepared for me to dig my heels in and do things in a sane and organized manner.

It sounds like he is really into me and panicking at having made a mistake thinking he could put it over on me and be dating other women after lying by omission about that. Probably the first time he's had anything of quality in his life, and putting me down and questioning my reality is just a tactic to keep me interested. (When I live a stable life and he sleeps in his office on a futon mattress and sleeping bag and is all over the place and mismanaged his business along with its finances...) He doesn't really take care of his health. I think he is used to doing what he wants because he's here and there and not with anyone long enough for them to address his interpersonal habits. He just cruises along before anyone starts expecting anything out of him! And so he gets away with not offering anything of substance except cash which I'm not interested in.

I know what I know. Which is that I'm fairly grounded. I worked a lot yesterday and today on a really difficult data project, and finished it up. Had a friend over for lunch/dinner today... money in the bank. Reading tonight and going to bed early. Quaker Meeting tomorrow which I really appreciate and spending the afternoon/evening with my son's girlfriend's family.

I really like having the board members here to keep me honest and to be the voice of reason.


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

HNU, 

Get this-- Remember that I said my ex would never comment on how I looked? I must have jinxed it because yesterday he said I looked nice. He even double checked my plans because he thought I looked too good to go where I said I was going (a get-together with kids at a friend's house). He's probably just having sweet lemons. But sure would have been nice a couple of years ago. 

Oh and let me drop a bomb on everyone if you haven't already guessed, we still live together. 

Hope you're having a nice Sunday. It's gorgeous where I live.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Sooo, he is trying to tell me that because of my past I'm somehow wrong and misreading him...that he intended good things for me (while he was 'having a fun and enjoyable time with me' - and TWO OTHER women on the side which he hadn't told me about...) and that I am making a big mistake and smearing him besides! 

Please tell me that this guy is just a man wh*re and trying to f*ck with my mind. 

I think he's just upset because he wanted something of quality and now he can't get it. I'm too repulsed by the fact that he was doing me and had two other women he was dating, and had the chance to tell me and be honest about it and let me make a choice up front, and he didn't. He doesn't take care of himself physically and his business affairs are in a mess. 

The sad thing is that I thought we had a connection what with Mongolia and our type of business etc. I think I just wanted something so desperately that I was stupidly naive. A man wh*re is a man wh*re and thank God I leveled with the other guy I was starting to date so that I didn't deceive him the way I was ultimately deceived.

This guy is trying to make it seem like I am making a big mistake about his character. That I shouldn't be revolted by the fact that he was intimate with me and dating two other women on the side. 

What exactly did he think he was going to offer me besides an std? Please tell me to just GET OVER this guy and move on.

WHY AM I ATTRACTED TO LOSERS WHO TELL A GOOD STORY AND LET THEM BULLY ME EMOTIONALLY INTO ACCEPTING THEIR HORRID WORLDS (that only work for them)?

I'm drawing the line at this one. I really think he has only no good to offer me, except for drama. I just don't want it. I want to feel SAFE with a guy and he blew it. I think he's immature and flippant and used to fooling people or not staying in one place long enough to be called out on things.

I have always in the past made mistakes by not trusting my intuition and what I know. This time I am just going to accept that EVEN IF THIS GUY IS SOLID GOLD, he FAILS in making me feel like I am involved in something good and wholesome. If he cannot do that, then what good is he? Lots of men are well endowed and have some money for dinners. I don't see what else he has to offer as I can get jobs on my own (I have steady work) and I'm buying my own ticket to Mongolia.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

sayjellybeans said:


> HNU,
> 
> Get this-- Remember that I said my ex would never comment on how I looked? I must have jinxed it because yesterday he said I looked nice. He even double checked my plans because he thought I looked too good to go where I said I was going (a get-together with kids at a friend's house). He's probably just having sweet lemons. But sure would have been nice a couple of years ago.
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with living together...do you have kids? 
I hope my Sunday will get better...read my post.
How did I get involved with someone so repulsive? He seemed so sweet and open and honest and trustworthy when I first met him. Ohhhhhh, the charm of the narcissist. Now he is bullying me and calling me emotionally damaged and saying that my past is affecting how I see him. Despite the fact he established an intimate relationship with me making out like I was the only one, when he had two other women on the side. PLAYER!!!!!!!!!! No wonder he is single, slightly overweight, and his life is a logistical and spiritual mess.

I wish I could just hit the delete button on my memory.
Some times spent over the holidays with a different kind of guy will probably put things right. Honestly, I can't imagine this guy having time for my children, or going to the dump with me, or cleaning the bathroom with me or making pancakes or folding laundry with me. 

A person has to have something more in common than just wanting to go to Mongolia and the kind of work they do (which he doesn't really do any more, he pays other people to do it, and then while he's off trying to keep things patched together in his life, they don't do it!)


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I have a date tonight with the nice guy who lives locally. He is picking me up as he has 4wd (we had a storm last night.)

I'm really liking how considerate he is. It's not as though it's a consideration that's meant as gestures on the way to getting something, it's a consideration that comes from whatever feeling he gets himself from treating people with consideration. 

I really find this attitude attractive. It's making more and more sense to me. 

I'm not sure why I always enjoyed some kind of ridiculous challenge prior to this.


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

Good for you! 
Let us know how it goes?


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> There is nothing wrong with living together...do you have kids?


Yep. DS 12, DD 8. They're sweet children.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I have known couples who lived together so well that I did not ever realize they had split up! Also another couple who split up but had houses next to each other. Whatever works. The kids benefit and they will appreciate seeing how adults can resolve issues without big arguments and so forth.

That's the age of my kids.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Which guy dances better?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

LOL Lon, I don't worry about dating guys who dance. I just go to dance venues where there are workshops or classes and make do...I've really cut back on the ballroom and the Argentine Tango I'm usually among friends, not dating any of them, I know them too well and a lot are partnered. 

I am pretty good friends with one guy but we are not love interests although we do care about each other a great deal. I have other guy friends like that. This year I acquired 5 guy friends and one professional mentor who is a guy. 4 of the friends dance, the other one meets me for dinners and occasionally movies and kayaking or campfire/beers. This does not include the guy I almost worked for who I dated briefly...I had to de-list him as even a friend. How sad is that? I hope when he sees me in a work setting he does not decide he still has a thing for me, in that case I will be sorry for him. He thinks I am nuts because I didn't want to have sex outside of a committed relationship, I dismissed it as boring, dull and inconsequential. If he could dance at least he would have had something going for him that I could relate to. I'm still scratching my head on how easily I fell for him, and how easily I un-fell for him after a few weeks of observation and experience.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Perhaps. But what's wrong with being a pleaser so long as it doesn't equate to being a pushover? QUOTE]
> 
> Because there is no 'thrill to the hunt". Bad Boy Syndrome... you want to tame him.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Ostera said:


> Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps. But what's wrong with being a pleaser so long as it doesn't equate to being a pushover? QUOTE]
> ...


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

It went okay.
No sparks but good company and a good head for business and logistics. Shop talk. I think I must be a guy, after all. Or just have fatal attraction issues. I suppose if I can come to terms with them, I could have an agreeable life without getting hitched? And just keep on with my guy friends for company otherwise...?
Interesting thought, for a Quaker... :-o
I mean, is it possible to use people if they want to be used and agree to the conditions?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Maybe it's not using each other and/or agreeing to be used. Maybe it's just living under terms you're both content with.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Maybe it's not using each other and/or agreeing to be used. Maybe it's just living under terms you're both content with.


Right. I think with the guy who I dated who *almost* became my client, he had his terms but he didn't disclose them and therefore I felt duped. It wasn't so much the conditions, as the presentation of conditions (false pretense.) I can't tolerate someone who lies. There's always some 'reason'...well, I want to be able to make choices about who I get physical with and under what conditions, don't lie to me! That's just wrong.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Got out on my new snowboard today with my kids' after school program. Had not been on a board for 15 years and I got my feet back under me very quickly. It was so much fun! Indulged my wild and crazy side for a while. I forgot how much I like being out on the slopes. And in the lodge. The area where I go now is the same place I went when I was a kid. I had many happy hours there with my friends. It was so comforting to be back there with my own kids, my daughter is now the age I was when I used to go there. We'd ride the ski bus, etc. (From another town.)

Have a date tomorrow night with 'nice guy.' I am starting to think, okay, normal life, minimal drama, kids, fun, work, self-care, nice guy who likes and respects me and thinks to tell me I'm pretty  and that it's all about family and balance. This could happen. I am actually excited and looking forward to date, rather than thinking, oh, boring.


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