# Dating and safety



## PAgirl

I want to start a thread about this. Im sure others have some tips they can share with others. I am 5 ft tall and 120 lbs, so Im petite. Not that I want to think about it, but I could end up in a body bag if Im not careful. A few weeks ago, I googled a guy I was chatting online with and found out he was arrested for breaking his ex wifes fingers trying to pry her phone out of her hands a year ago! How do you protect yourself when going on dates from dating sites?

For a first date, its always meeting (no picking up at my house) at a public place (restaurant or bar) so I don't see a problem there. But a second date...what to do? A guy that I really like who asked me on a second date said we can go take a nature walk on sunday and then dinner afterwards. I love that idea. But a nature walk with a stranger might be dangerous?? I already run a background check online on anyone I potentially date and he comes up clean. But still.. should I say no? What do others do?


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## unsure78

Usually, I only do a public crowded place for the first 3 dates and meet there... However I have made a few exceptions, usually for the guys in law enforcement ( i have let them pick me up on date 2)...

I think you are doing all you should be, if you are background checking them and goggling them.. 

Go with your gut...


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## Almostrecovered

unsure78 said:


> I think you are doing all you should be, if you are goggling them..



is that what they call it these days?


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## unsure78

Almostrecovered said:


> is that what they call it these days?


HA!


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## PBear

Let a friend know who you're meeting, and when/where. Heck, there's even apps that your friends can use to see your location/track. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

bring a flare gun


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## PAgirl

PBear said:


> Let a friend know who you're meeting, and when/where. Heck, there's even apps that your friends can use to see your location/track.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great idea, I was already thinking this. Is that good enough? I might have to tell him I want to go on a public trail where there is more people. Then he will think Im paranoid


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## PAgirl

Almostrecovered said:


> bring a flare gun


I love your posts!! :lol:


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## pragmaster

Wow. I think it's pretty sad that women have to be so careful. I never even thought that women were so precautious and would do things like background checks. I'm from a small town in Canada. People are VERY trusting here because there is little to no violence ever. I tend to stay clear of women who aren't as trusting as the locals. Maybe it's a big city thing. I don't know. 

As a young man who's been dating since my seperation in May, I'd like to say it depends on the people, but it does also go both ways. I've invited girls over and regretted it afterwards. One girl started randomly stopping by without notice and another threatened to burn my house after I nicely asked her to scratch my number.

A walk seems fine. The reality is if he really wanted to hurt you there is little you could to do to know beforehand. Meeting anybody new is a risk. Period.


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## Cooper

Everything needs to be in a public place, if the guy doesn't understand that or gets offended that's his problem, not yours.

I am a guy so my approach is a bit more care free, but still I try to be careful, mostly with personal information. I have had women not be willing to give me their last name or phone number, or home email until after we have met, and I'm OK with that. 

And make sure on any date you casually mention how when you got your concealed carry permit you shot the best score in the class!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

The background/criminal check really does help.
I usually do one, if serious about a guy I go for the full report, if just going on a date, the basic one.

I wouldn't go on a nature walk if it's going to make you nervous.
What would be the point, you won't enjoy yourself.
I don't think very highly of people who suggest risky dates like that, not even thinking of how it will be for you (or maybe they are thinking how it will be for you.)

That said, I have gone on a hike in a somewhat remote area for a second date, and also met up with a guy to go XC skiing once, sight unseen. But to be honest I think I had vetted these people and they came clean. 

Hey, maybe you could bring some hiking poles with you on the date, then they could double as weapons in a pinch. :-o
Just kidding!

For me, a person needs to earn trust over time for me to be alone with them and vulnerable. It's not something I just automatically agree to in the interest of 'romance'. 

You're not being overly cautious, you're being smart.

There are a lot of people out there who are interested in money/drugs, violence, and just the thrill of creeping someone out on a 'date' because that's what they do for fun. 

Why not suggest an amusement park or a walk through some urban parks and/or a museum. Museums are great because they do have places you can sit and talk or have a coffee or light meal, and they also have really good security. Often you have to be scanned through. And eyes will be on the guy. I always figure if a person isn't comfortable in a fishbowl environment like that, they're hiding something. 

You could be like me and date in a country that's an island, no escape if someone does something wrong. Plus CCTV in most places. And need to have a clean record to enter the country to begin with. Makes things a LOT easier. 

If you have to be thinking about security and having a friend tag along, bringing weapons, leaving an electronic trail, etc. then I don't think that sounds like dating. It sounds like some kind of bizarre adrenaline rush. How could you even think of eventually being alone to have a more intimate relationship? 

It's always shocking to me how soon people have sex in relationships, not because of the sex part, but because of the risk of violence they're exposing themselves to, with someone they've maybe spent time with once, twice, or whatever. Of course, there's always sex in a car in a parking garage, with CCTV and the security guard ready to drive on over if something goes wrong. LOL.

There are loads of options besides 'nature walk'. I'd be suspicious!
Suggest something else, and don't even explain why. Especially don't explain why. If he makes a big deal of it, there's your answer, right there. But even if he doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean he's in the clear.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

PAgirl said:


> Great idea, I was already thinking this. Is that good enough? I might have to tell him I want to go on a public trail where there is more people. Then he will think Im paranoid


You don't need to explain.
Just say you really feel more like doing (other activity/other place) than taking a nature walk.


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## whitehawk

Yeah it must be tricky for women.

l know when l was dating l met one girl 5ft too. She actually came down to my place first. But when l went up to hers she met me at a coffee shop.
l was pretty surprised considering she'd spent 1/2 a day down my place , yet was cagey about going back to hers but it is understandable. 
Or maybe she had hubby stashed in the cupboard :rofl:


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## bravenewworld

I always text a friend with my date's name/telephone number and once I see their vehicle I will discreetly text a license plate number and car color/model. 

Also, I ALWAYS send my friend a text when I arrive home in one piece. I think the best advice is to trust your gut, don't feel guilty saying no to hinky situations, and don't get inebriated. Be very suspicious of men (and women too!) who deliberately try to get you drunk.


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## RandomDude

Wow... ya all FB stalkers! lol

Anyways for me I guess I just follow my instincts, like BNW mentioned:


> I think the best advice is to trust your gut


That's all you can do really


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

RandomDude said:


> Wow... ya all FB stalkers! lol
> 
> Anyways for me I guess I just follow my instincts, like BNW mentioned:
> 
> That's all you can do really


Who said anything about FB.
I go professional when warranted. FB is the worst place to look for veracity, people will use it to put up a good front. Some people who are in the 'dating' world are not in it for 'dating' they are in it for other reasons, which means you do need to ferret out what seems attractive from what really is attractive. It's not always about physical safety, it can also be about professional and financial safety as well, along with just protecting yourself from being badgered about. This goes for people of all genders.


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## RandomDude

:scratchhead:

What records do you have access to exactly?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

RandomDude said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> What records do you have access to exactly?


Address, address history, people who have lived at the same address, relatives' names, in some cases employment, alternate phone numbers, judgements, professional licenses, marriage and divorce records, anything that would show up in a court record...

In some cases I have had access to some company financial records. Public or paid-public records of government and other agency contracts, political donations. 

Can also taken an address and query police and emergency service responses that are published in most of our local newspapers. 

Obituaries can also give a lot of information that can be checked for facts.

Human intel is also possible, 6 degrees of separation...
My state is small, I know a lot of people, have lived all over the state...

Drinking with the person in question (only not drinking that much...) Having a look in their wallet or glove box if given the opportunity....

Physical assessment (some drug abuse and health conditions are obvious if you've worked in clinical care, especially an ER or on inpatient...) 

My specialty in work is information gathering and lie detection, also psychology/reading between the lines. In order to detect lies, you need to have facts, and be a good listener. A person who is deliberately deceiving with an intent to do no good (vs. just trying to make a good impression) will offer up a *constructive narrative*, which is based on facts but will have too much detail of the wrong kind. A good clue is if someone disses another person or a set of persons, then you know you should try to do some research on those other persons, or find a way to find out what those other persons think of the person you're gathering info on. He or she will also offer up explanations for questions you never even asked. 

The range of normal is very wide and exciting and refreshing. Whereas the range of sociopathy is abysmally boring in its homogeneity. 

I also work in semantics, not just hard facts. So if you listen to your potential 'date' you can pick up references they might not have wanted to let slip. Besides the less obvious constructive narrative. Or detect which items represent a deception, and should be checked up on. Acting a bit clueless leads people to be sloppy story tellers. 

I don't date a lot, so I don't do this very often. And often it isn't even necessary, because the truth is obvious just from the constructive narrative vs. the (sad) reality of what you see if you are looking. 

The most vetting I ever did was on a guy who wanted to 'date' me but also wanted to employ me. I distanced myself from him fairly quickly and this ended up being a sound professional maneuver for me (as well as personally.) Whereas another colleague of mine did not do this and it has meant the premature end of his career, despite me hinting to him that he could still do damage control by at least talking to the guy and explaining that he needed to distance himself from him 'temporarily' and then removing all web presence, etc. of any affiliation. But the guy in question is a good talker, and I think my colleague, despite being in the business of deception detection professionally, does not get it...the guy is a good liar and has lost whatever substance he used to have. Either that or he (my colleague) just has a really big heart and no survival instinct at all to speak of. :scratchhead:

Anyhow I'm now in territory that he wanted to claim but has been barred from participating, not contractually but he's just been sort of blacklisted. But I was ahead of the curve in calling him out before anyone else did. They got burned a bit more, I just had a good laugh and avoided entanglement. The guy is fond of contracts. I dragged my feet on signing one. I don't like contracts. I don't have any for my work, actually. It's all word of mouth and trust. So for me him wanting a contract was a red flag. Everyone who hires me to work knows I don't do contracts. Treat me right, I'll keep producing. Be a beastly jerk or try to abuse me with overwork, not sharing credit, etc., I'm gone. 

Personally I think most people are too trusting. Even when there is no evidence that they should be and loads of evidence that they shouldn't be.


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## RandomDude

... but how do you get access to all this info? :scratchhead:

You sound like a secret agent! lol


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

RandomDude said:


> ... but how do you get access to all this info? :scratchhead:
> 
> You sound like a secret agent! lol


Sometimes you pay for it through a vendor. 
Other times it's public access, you just need to know where to find it and how to sort through it.

My poor ex, he tried to hide a condo he owned in Hawaii. 
He's still afraid of me. 

I'm not really interested in people's details, unless there is some reason for me to be concerned about them. For the most part, people are boring and pretty much worry about and concern themselves about the same things. 

One place I never go is health information. 
That's big NO GO. I do some work in health care data, particularly in mental health. 
There's no way I'd ever look at someone's health care information, ever. I try to avoid at work any data files that have names in them. Not my business. Besides, if someone I know is mentally ill, I can pretty much tell without having to look.

I once sized up a new neighbor with dementia onset, his wife just thought he was alcoholic. She asked me how I could know so quickly. My grandmother said I have a sixth sense, but I just pay attention to details and synthesize information quickly and more or less accurately. 

Secret agent...no thanks. Been offered, not interested. It's hard to know who you're working for in that line of work, and I'm very picky about who I work for and where the funds come from. People make all kinds of promises, but they lie, it's their business to lie. Been a fly on the wall in any number of situations to know there are some things I won't expose me or my kids to. Some people take the money and are good at self-delusion...I can't practice self-delusion, at least not for very long. It's not my nature.


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## EnjoliWoman

Trust your gut if everything you know so far has checked out. But to make yourself more comfortable, you could always carry a small can of pepper spray in your pocket. 

Random, I do background checks on my dates. I don't know about where you live but alot of records are public. Arrest record and sex offender database are pretty basic to start with. Marriage licenses and divorce records are online for most counties. Mostly I verify. 

A guy says he's divorced and has an apartment yet I find online he owns a house along with his wife - could be they are separated, or divorced but the house is still in both names. Now I drive by. Two cars in the driveway. I may casually ask what he drives by bringing up recent car service. Now I realize the make, model and color of the vehicle he drives was in the driveway. Hm. Maybe he was just picking up a box of stuff he left in the garage. So now I ask what he did that day/evening, etc. He says he went by his ex's place to get his old record albums. Whew. OK that seems plausible now. 

OR if the conversation could go in the opposite direction and now I know he's lying about something. 

Or I see a photo on his FB with a woman and it was very recent. I could ask about his trip and ask if he went with friends, etc. Maybe he says he went with his sister and BIL. OK the woman in the pic could be sis. But the woman isn't wearing a wedding band yet his sister is married. Warrants more checking out.

If I am able to verify everything he tells me is truthful, I can feel more comfortable letting him know where I live, my last name, etc. If I see red flags I dig more. Once I know he's lying about something I move on.


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## Almostrecovered

blood and urine samples are a must


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## ne9907

HMU I am very impressed by you.

How is it that I cant message you?


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## southern wife

PBear said:


> Let a friend know who you're meeting, and when/where. Heck, there's even apps that your friends can use to see your location/track.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What are some of these apps? (I have an Android phone)


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Almostrecovered said:


> blood and urine samples are a must


Ahhhh, well. If you're going to have sex with someone then yes, you should definitely verify their medical status. Herpes, chlamydia, HIV status, other std's, vasectomy (and after vasectomy check), tubal or birth control plan, etc.

Of course you want to know about all this. Why wouldn't you!

But with medical, you have to ask for it straight up.
No snooping there, it's illegal, health information has a special protected status, as it should.

But hey, yah, definitely check around for medications if you've been invited in.

Of course, when I was younger, I worked in a military medical clinic for fighter pilots. So I knew who had history of syphilis (I started work in the early 80's it was still common, or recently so) and who had vasectomies. ROFL.


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## daddymikey1975

To stay safe on a date, I always carry a gun. Lol

Went to have a couple drinks one time with a good friend at a place where another friend bartends. The friend and I that were drinking were engrossed in conversation when things got rowdy. There were some patrons that were too liquored up and began getting belligerent. Immediately I squeezed my friends thigh under the table and offered her a suggestive glance towards the rowdy bunch. She winked as if to suggest saying "thanks for keeping a watchful eye out"... We left shortly after. She told me she was very glad that I was carrying and that I was observant of our surroundings. Said it made her feel very safe. 

I always carry everywhere I'm legally allowed to be and I make no exceptions. So far, no dates have objected. It's always brought up casually in conversation before we meet so there's no surprises. In fact, occasionally I'll allow my date to choose which gun I bring with me (I have a few that are different colors). 

To the women asking what they can do to be safe, my suggestion is to take some force on force self defense classes and get some firearms instruction. Then, get a gun you are comfortable shooting and train often. Your date doesn't need to know you're carrying. (I've taken a couple dates to the shooting range as well and it was LOTS of fun)


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## MEM2020

PAgirl,

True blue - hunter/killer sociopaths are very rare. Garden variety angry/controlling men who have learned to hide those traits fairly well are much more common. 

You can google this, but there are a set of things to look out for which will give you a sense of how controlling/angry a guy is.

If it makes you feel safer though, you can always say this at the start of a date: 

When I told my girlfriends that you were taking me on this date to do X and Y they thought that was really cool. 

This is code for: multiple people know where/who I am with. 






PAgirl said:


> I want to start a thread about this. Im sure others have some tips they can share with others. I am 5 ft tall and 120 lbs, so Im petite. Not that I want to think about it, but I could end up in a body bag if Im not careful. A few weeks ago, I googled a guy I was chatting online with and found out he was arrested for breaking his ex wifes fingers trying to pry her phone out of her hands a year ago! How do you protect yourself when going on dates from dating sites?
> 
> For a first date, its always meeting (no picking up at my house) at a public place (restaurant or bar) so I don't see a problem there. But a second date...what to do? A guy that I really like who asked me on a second date said we can go take a nature walk on sunday and then dinner afterwards. I love that idea. But a nature walk with a stranger might be dangerous?? I already run a background check online on anyone I potentially date and he comes up clean. But still.. should I say no? What do others do?


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## MEM2020

HNU,

Loved your post below. 

Just want to add one thing. 

There is one question that can be remarkably helpful in assessing someone. And that is:

If I bumped into your ex (wife/long term girlfriend) in a bar and asked them about you, what would they say? 

Here's the thing about that question. A genuinely decent person will have no issue with it. They won't get defensive or angry at you for asking it. They won't get that deer in the headlights look in their eyes. 

They will smile and give you a balanced view of the feedback their ex gave them. And it will be a mix of pro/con. 

And I agree that sociopaths have a very limited range. For instance, a classic deflection of that question is: 

Gosh, my ex is a pathological liar, so whatever they tell you, you ought to assume the opposite is true. 





Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Address, address history, people who have lived at the same address, relatives' names, in some cases employment, alternate phone numbers, judgements, professional licenses, marriage and divorce records, anything that would show up in a court record...
> 
> In some cases I have had access to some company financial records. Public or paid-public records of government and other agency contracts, political donations.
> 
> Can also taken an address and query police and emergency service responses that are published in most of our local newspapers.
> 
> Obituaries can also give a lot of information that can be checked for facts.
> 
> Human intel is also possible, 6 degrees of separation...
> My state is small, I know a lot of people, have lived all over the state...
> 
> Drinking with the person in question (only not drinking that much...) Having a look in their wallet or glove box if given the opportunity....
> 
> Physical assessment (some drug abuse and health conditions are obvious if you've worked in clinical care, especially an ER or on inpatient...)
> 
> My specialty in work is information gathering and lie detection, also psychology/reading between the lines. In order to detect lies, you need to have facts, and be a good listener. A person who is deliberately deceiving with an intent to do no good (vs. just trying to make a good impression) will offer up a *constructive narrative*, which is based on facts but will have too much detail of the wrong kind. A good clue is if someone disses another person or a set of persons, then you know you should try to do some research on those other persons, or find a way to find out what those other persons think of the person you're gathering info on. He or she will also offer up explanations for questions you never even asked.
> 
> The range of normal is very wide and exciting and refreshing. Whereas the range of sociopathy is abysmally boring in its homogeneity.
> 
> I also work in semantics, not just hard facts. So if you listen to your potential 'date' you can pick up references they might not have wanted to let slip. Besides the less obvious constructive narrative. Or detect which items represent a deception, and should be checked up on. Acting a bit clueless leads people to be sloppy story tellers.
> 
> I don't date a lot, so I don't do this very often. And often it isn't even necessary, because the truth is obvious just from the constructive narrative vs. the (sad) reality of what you see if you are looking.
> 
> The most vetting I ever did was on a guy who wanted to 'date' me but also wanted to employ me. I distanced myself from him fairly quickly and this ended up being a sound professional maneuver for me (as well as personally.) Whereas another colleague of mine did not do this and it has meant the premature end of his career, despite me hinting to him that he could still do damage control by at least talking to the guy and explaining that he needed to distance himself from him 'temporarily' and then removing all web presence, etc. of any affiliation. But the guy in question is a good talker, and I think my colleague, despite being in the business of deception detection professionally, does not get it...the guy is a good liar and has lost whatever substance he used to have. Either that or he (my colleague) just has a really big heart and no survival instinct at all to speak of. :scratchhead:
> 
> Anyhow I'm now in territory that he wanted to claim but has been barred from participating, not contractually but he's just been sort of blacklisted. But I was ahead of the curve in calling him out before anyone else did. They got burned a bit more, I just had a good laugh and avoided entanglement. The guy is fond of contracts. I dragged my feet on signing one. I don't like contracts. I don't have any for my work, actually. It's all word of mouth and trust. So for me him wanting a contract was a red flag. Everyone who hires me to work knows I don't do contracts. Treat me right, I'll keep producing. Be a beastly jerk or try to abuse me with overwork, not sharing credit, etc., I'm gone.
> 
> Personally I think most people are too trusting. Even when there is no evidence that they should be and loads of evidence that they shouldn't be.


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## antechomai

I first met my wife 14 years ago at Lego-Land at the MOA. Safe enough place. I'd probably be escorted out these days. A 42 year old man looking around at kids and moms waiting.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

MEM11363 said:


> HNU,
> 
> Loved your post below.
> 
> Just want to add one thing.
> 
> There is one question that can be remarkably helpful in assessing someone. And that is:
> 
> If I bumped into your ex (wife/long term girlfriend) in a bar and asked them about you, what would they say?
> 
> Here's the thing about that question. A genuinely decent person will have no issue with it. They won't get defensive or angry at you for asking it. They won't get that deer in the headlights look in their eyes.


I disagree. 

A pathological liar/abuser/person with malintention will be blasé with this question, because he/she has prepared for it AND expects it. 

Whereas, someone who has been in an abusive relationship WILL get that deer in the headlight look, they will be, OMG, you might know my ex, and have inside information about me (that might not be true) or worse, have been told things about me that aren't true (because their ex is a pathological liar they escaped from...) You could actually trigger an anxiety attack with that question, and also totally blow it for yourself if you wanted a relationship with that person. 

A genuinely decent person has any number of reasons to be upset with a question like that. And a genuinely decent person with an ex, even more so. :scratchhead: If someone is genuinely decent, chances are they want their history to be just that, history, and not brought up like that as an interrogatory. 

For someone whose family members have gone around spreading lies about them, to their disadvantage and meddling in their personal relationships and even their jobs and health care, casually mentioning that you're going to ask questions about them from former intimate partners or even their former intimate partner's social circle will almost automatically rule you out of the running for a relationship with that person. It's that much of a trigger. Even if you meant it theoretically, it's crossing a line.


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## Adeline

pepper spray. Invest in it.


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## MEM2020

HNU,

I've never seen you trigger before. If indeed I did trigger you, I'm sorry. It wasn't my intent. 

My use of language was very specific. It wasn't a: I'm going to find your ex and ask them about you. Because I agree, that seems very invasive. 

The heart of it was: How did your ex perceive you? 

Very different question. 

To be fair, I haven't dated for 25 years, so maybe it is a bad question for most folks. 

If anything happened to M2, I wouldn't mind at all being asked that question on a date. 




Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I disagree.
> 
> A pathological liar/abuser/person with malintention will be blasé with this question, because he/she has prepared for it AND expects it.
> 
> Whereas, someone who has been in an abusive relationship WILL get that deer in the headlight look, they will be, OMG, you might know my ex, and have inside information about me (that might not be true) or worse, have been told things about me that aren't true (because their ex is a pathological liar they escaped from...) You could actually trigger an anxiety attack with that question, and also totally blow it for yourself if you wanted a relationship with that person.
> 
> A genuinely decent person has any number of reasons to be upset with a question like that. And a genuinely decent person with an ex, even more so. :scratchhead: If someone is genuinely decent, chances are they want their history to be just that, history, and not brought up like that as an interrogatory.
> 
> For someone whose family members have gone around spreading lies about them, to their disadvantage and meddling in their personal relationships and even their jobs and health care, casually mentioning that you're going to ask questions about them from former intimate partners or even their former intimate partner's social circle will almost automatically rule you out of the running for a relationship with that person. It's that much of a trigger. Even if you meant it theoretically, it's crossing a line.


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## Holland

RandomDude said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> What records do you have access to exactly?


I had the same thoughts RD, must be a cultural thing as I have never heard of this type of behaviour, investigation here. Seems so very OTT. I have never done a check on any date.
Sure basic safety rules apply like meeting somewhere public, telling others you where you will be etc but all the background checking stuff is like something you would see on a TV show.

As for carrying a gun on a date OMG what an awful way to live.


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## Rowan

I have no issues with the thought that a person might be armed on a date. In fact, I assume that the vast majority of the people I know are armed in some fashion, or able to make themselves so very quickly, pretty much all the time. Including me, though I don't usually actually carry a handgun around with me. That's just a cultural thing where I live. But I'd be pretty highly offended by a man who assumed I'd want to pick out his handgun based on a variety of color options. Dude. Seriously?!?! _Color_?!?! 

Oh, and I have something better than any background check I might personally be able to perform. I have a cadre of little old Southern ladies. They can find out pretty much anything about anyone who's ever lived within a 100-mile radius of my home. In about an hour. The NSA's got nothing on the local Garden Club......


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

MEM11363 said:


> HNU,
> 
> I've never seen you trigger before. If indeed I did trigger you, I'm sorry. It wasn't my intent.
> 
> My use of language was very specific. It wasn't a: I'm going to find your ex and ask them about you. Because I agree, that seems very invasive.
> 
> The heart of it was: How did your ex perceive you?
> 
> Very different question.
> 
> To be fair, I haven't dated for 25 years, so maybe it is a bad question for most folks.
> 
> If anything happened to M2, I wouldn't mind at all being asked that question on a date.


Not triggered. Just stating facts. If a decent person has an ex, and you ask what the ex would say about the decent person, if you ran into the ex at a bar, you aren't going to get any kind of response from the person you're interested in, that's going to give you information about whether they can be trusted or not.

I think this was your point, that by asking a specific question, in general, from someone who was on a date with you, that you would be able to tell, without any other kind of questions or investigation needed, at all, whether that person was up to no good or not when it came to the dating with you.

I disagreed and provided a solid example of why the single-question method you proposed will not work, and conversely pointed out that sociopaths/people whose intent is to maliciously deceive, are prepared for this question and will respond in accordance with the 'nothing to hide' scenario you propose for "decent people". In other words, your method is doomed.

And while you did not trigger me, because we are not on a date, asking this question WILL trigger a date who has an abusive ex in their past, and no amount of apologies will erase that experience he/she has with you. Even if the person is decent, your dating future with them is also doomed as you are the source of unexpected stress for them, which they will store away in the back of their minds, and will never want to let their guard down with you again. This is just how the human brain and body works. It doesn't mean it's right, it just means your question will work to your disadvantage in that it will disqualify you from dating certain decent people, and additionally not weed out your dates with malintent.

It would probably trigger me, I suppose, but for a different reason than I stated above...
my former boyfriend cannot remember our relationship, he had a very severe brain hemorrhage. He remembers me, he just cannot remember details, but remembers enough to actively avoid me and tell me to move on. So, he thinks very highly of me, just cannot remember exactly why...(maybe had something to do with being at the hospital every day for 3 months, which he does not remember either!) Sigh. Life is difficult. But don't go asking my ex about me, you will get a blank stare, and probably end up upsetting him as well. It is better not to ask questions like that in general. It leads to no good and with very little positive outcome for ferreting out good relationship material.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Holland said:


> I had the same thoughts RD, must be a cultural thing as I have never heard of this type of behaviour, investigation here. Seems so very OTT. I have never done a check on any date.
> Sure basic safety rules apply like meeting somewhere public, telling others you where you will be etc but all the background checking stuff is like something you would see on a TV show.
> 
> As for carrying a gun on a date OMG what an awful way to live.


America is a violent place. 
In case anyone hasn't noticed.
Not just violence but also a lot of untreated/not very well treated mental illness. And a lot of crime that while not physically violent is emotionally and financially violent as well, not to mention the extreme misogynistic culture we live in. Most people are unaware of it, because of their immersion into pop culture and mainstream life, banter on radio stations, etc. But it is there, and noticeable if and when you go to another culture/country that is much less violent, much less misogynistic, much saner (literally) and organized around equality and less need for crime/jockeying/extreme competition that leads to crime or variants thereof (cheating, etc.)
I plan to emigrate as soon as possible.
Just in my small geographic area in 'quaint' New England, we've had a town hall massacre, several police shootings of mentally ill persons (fatal), shooting over a woman at a downtown family restaurant, and a few public officials involved with infractions of the law, either white collar crime or sexual. 
A couple weeks ago my kids and I passed a trio who had just been involved in a stabbing (unknown to us but it raised the hair on the back of my neck, so to speak, and I gave my kids a lecture on how to walk coolly past people like that, who would slice you up just for a 10 dollar bill...) Found out next day, they had JUST literally stabbed someone very very close to where we were parked and heading, just for that reason.
My daughter also said some guy slowed down in a pickup truck and leered at her and her brother (who has long hair and looks like a girl). There is no CCTV in our downtown area. Additionally, a couple weeks ago a fight broke out in the upstairs of our town library, the librarian (a solidly built woman) took down the perp. My kids now know to grab their stuff and make a run for it if this happens again. 
The list just goes on and on. Mind you, I live in nice places, towns with high incomes, good schools, etc. But everywhere I've lived, there has been at least one incident of a crazed person with a gun next door, who has needed either response from State Police or even SWAT team. I've seen drug busts right outside my door along the street, and invariably there are break-ins although these are minor compared with other issues. Two of my neighbors in different places were dealing in drugs...
One of my current neighbors openly harassed me and called me filthy names one night, I shouted him down and he went away only because I have (1) job and (2) attorney and he has neither. 

And people wonder why investigations of dates are needed. 
You think?

It is way easier for a criminal to get money from someone they "know" or to rape a "date" than to try their luck with a stranger.

Just this week a woman was strangled by her 'acquaintance' the guy was later found dead of suicide (maybe, that's what they say anyhow). 

There is still a single mom who was murdered at her house while her kids were present, a few years ago, nice place, nice town, woman was not badly off...still hasn't been solved.

My old neighborhood, a woman was found stuffed into a trash barrel right where I took my walks. This was ummmm, York Maine, one of the #1 family destinations in all of America. People need to wake the f*ck up and see what kind of society they're living in. It's not pretty. Or safe.

Most honest and decent people ASSUME that everyone is just like them.
They are wrong. They just don't have a clue as to how the criminal mind thinks. That's what criminal minds and sociopaths are counting on. Nice tasty lamb chops.


----------



## movealong

HNU, you seem extraordinarily jaded toward our society. While I understand the need for caution and vigilance, what you are describing is not the norm. Every society has elements such as you are describing. Even in more Socialistic cultures there are crazies that go on rampages shooting kids, cops, officials, etc. The difference is the pop/mainstream culture in American has found a way to make money off of the tragedy. Even respected (formerly respected?) news agencies such as CBS have bought in to the culture of crime by leading with those stories.

The US crime statistics, according to the FBI, are high and skewed towards urban areas such as Detroit, parts of LA, NY, and Houston. Outside of the urban areas, the violent crime drops significantly to par with other 1st world nations.

To which country do you wish to emigrate? My son actually considered Holland, but has since changed his mind.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Holland said:


> I had the same thoughts RD, must be a cultural thing as I have never heard of this type of behaviour, investigation here. Seems so very OTT. I have never done a check on any date.
> Sure basic safety rules apply like meeting somewhere public, telling others you where you will be etc but all the background checking stuff is like something you would see on a TV show.
> 
> As for carrying a gun on a date OMG what an awful way to live.


Holland, I don't know why but I thought you were in the US.

There are a lot of public records that are easy to check. It's not paranoia or really OTT to me. Rape and assault are rare, but even if the chance is 1%, I'd still rather check them out. I actually do think most people are nice, honest, but fallible humans.  Most men are not going to force themselves. It's just comforting to feel you've checked them out a bit.

As to guns, it depends on who you are but for those of us who grew up with them, it's really no big deal. I've been shooting assorted firearms since I was a kid. My Dad is big on safety as well so I learned the proper way to handle, point, load, clean, store and carry a gun. When you are raised like that, having a gun with you doesn't feel any different than carrying mace.

But I realize to those who didn't grow up like this, and especially to those from other countries where guns aren't owned by citizens, it seems like a pretty big deal.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

movealong said:


> HNU, you seem extraordinarily jaded toward our society. While I understand the need for caution and vigilance, what you are describing is not the norm. Every society has elements such as you are describing. Even in more Socialistic cultures there are crazies that go on rampages shooting kids, cops, officials, etc. The difference is the pop/mainstream culture in American has found a way to make money off of the tragedy. Even respected (formerly respected?) news agencies such as CBS have bought in to the culture of crime by leading with those stories.
> 
> The US crime statistics, according to the FBI, are high and skewed towards urban areas such as Detroit, parts of LA, NY, and Houston. Outside of the urban areas, the violent crime drops significantly to par with other 1st world nations.
> 
> To which country do you wish to emigrate? My son actually considered Holland, but has since changed his mind.


I'm 50, I live in New Hampshire and have lived in and visited other places. I'm not jaded, I'm simply relating the experience of someone who has always sought to avoid violence, and can never manage, not for lack of trying. The FBI is nuts. Those people live in communities in the DC Metro area that they make sure are well protected. They have no sense of reality. And, when they do go after people, they go after the big dudes, who aren't into the sort of 'mundane' violence that most of America dwells in. Statistics, bleh, I'm a statistician. And I can tell you that those numbers are biased towards politics and economics. Statistics are almost always about money. 

Violence might not be the norm for you...lucky you. Maybe you haven't lived long enough yet. Or don't go to places where in a safer non-violent society, you would feel safe. Say, the grocery store or the gas station after nightfall, a walk along a beach, a mountain hike to a well-known lodge. 

Iceland. Sure I need an SO2 respirator mask these days, but the odds of having it stolen from me are very low.

Oh, I forgot, also in our state, a mom shot to death point blank in front of her two school-age kids by her own brother. And a mother hacked to death by teenagers who were just killing for fun, did not even know them, were not into robbery, just going out to kill someone for the 'fun' of it...snuck into the home in the middle of the night, the girl survived by playing dead, she was hacked up too. Maybe about 20 miles from here...both incidents. 

Tell me this is not the norm...when it keeps happening.


----------



## movealong

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I'm 50, I live in New Hampshire and have lived in and visited other places. I'm not jaded, I'm simply relating the experience of someone who has always sought to avoid violence, and can never manage, not for lack of trying. The FBI is nuts. Those people live in communities in the DC Metro area that they make sure are well protected. They have no sense of reality. And, when they do go after people, they go after the big dudes, who aren't into the sort of 'mundane' violence that most of America dwells in. Statistics, bleh, I'm a statistician. And I can tell you that those numbers are biased towards politics and economics. Statistics are almost always about money.
> 
> Violence might not be the norm for you...lucky you. Maybe you haven't lived long enough yet. Or don't go to places where in a safer non-violent society, you would feel safe. Say, the grocery store or the gas station after nightfall, a walk along a beach, a mountain hike to a well-known lodge.
> 
> Iceland. Sure I need an SO2 respirator mask these days, but the odds of having it stolen from me are very low.
> 
> Oh, I forgot, also in our state, a mom shot to death point blank in front of her two school-age kids by her own brother. And a mother hacked to death by teenagers who were just killing for fun, did not even know them, were not into robbery, just going out to kill someone for the 'fun' of it...snuck into the home in the middle of the night, the girl survived by playing dead, she was hacked up too. Maybe about 20 miles from here...both incidents.
> 
> Tell me this is not the norm...when it keeps happening.


For the record, I will be 49 on Friday. I have literally circumnavigated the world while serving in the United States Navy. 

Countries I have visited include:
Somalia, England, Ireland, Egypt, Philippines, New Guinea, Fiji, UAE, and Kenya.

Granted, spending from 3-45 days in a country does not qualify me to speak intelligently on the status of their safety, however, as a general order all sailors were required to adhere to the list of "off-limits" establishments/places. The fact that each country has a list implies that there is in fact danger of violence (in or out of uniform).

A friend of mine was in the Army in Europe. Amazingly enough, they had similar lists for France, Spain, Holland, Norway, and every other country. That also implies, to me, that being in a Socialistic country is not a guarantee of safety.

I have lived in Northern and Southern California, Oklahoma, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Louisiana, Illinois, Kansas and for a short time in Virginia. I have visited 35 of the 50 states on vacation and hope to see the others before I die.

I lived in the worst neighborhood in Oakland, California for a year. Gunshots were normal every night of the week. To say that I stuck out is an understatement. East 14th street is not a usual place for a white guy to live. But, I met my neighbors, I made friends, I participated in activities with my neighbors such as barbecues for Raider's and Atheletic's games. Drank beer and had a good time with them. I wonder am I just lucky, or was I vigilant in meeting people so there was no mistrust of me?

I am fortunate to have a family member that is an FBI field agent. Your derogatory remarks regarding the FBI do not equate to what I have seen. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. But to defame the entire organization is akin to defaming an entire company because the CEO is shoddy.

Your examples of crimes, a woman being shot in front of her children, etc, are no different than murders that happen in other countries. The ONLY difference is in choice of murder weapon.

All of this really is moot, though, as it has no bearing on dating safety. More than anything else, vigilance, due diligence, and a watchful eye are what is called for when meeting a date. IMO.


----------



## Fenix

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I'm 50, I live in New Hampshire and have lived in and visited other places. I'm not jaded, I'm simply relating the experience of someone who has always sought to avoid violence, and can never manage, not for lack of trying. The FBI is nuts. Those people live in communities in the DC Metro area that they make sure are well protected. They have no sense of reality. And, when they do go after people, they go after the big dudes, who aren't into the sort of 'mundane' violence that most of America dwells in. Statistics, bleh, I'm a statistician. And I can tell you that those numbers are biased towards politics and economics. Statistics are almost always about money.
> 
> Violence might not be the norm for you...lucky you. Maybe you haven't lived long enough yet. Or don't go to places where in a safer non-violent society, you would feel safe. Say, the grocery store or the gas station after nightfall, a walk along a beach, a mountain hike to a well-known lodge.
> 
> Iceland. Sure I need an SO2 respirator mask these days, but the odds of having it stolen from me are very low.
> 
> Oh, I forgot, also in our state, a mom shot to death point blank in front of her two school-age kids by her own brother. And a mother hacked to death by teenagers who were just killing for fun, did not even know them, were not into robbery, just going out to kill someone for the 'fun' of it...snuck into the home in the middle of the night, the girl survived by playing dead, she was hacked up too. Maybe about 20 miles from here...both incidents.
> 
> Tell me this is not the norm...when it keeps happening.


It's not the norm. I am your age and have lived in 6 different countries. The US is *marginally* more violent mainly due to our confrontational attitude and too many guns. It is not the war zone that you describe. It is also not the most misogynistic place on earth. 

But yes, on both of those attributes, Iceland is a more peaceful place than the US.


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## PAgirl

whitehawk said:


> Yeah it must be tricky for women.
> 
> l know when l was dating l met one girl 5ft too. She actually came down to my place first. But when l went up to hers she met me at a coffee shop.
> l was pretty surprised considering she'd spent 1/2 a day down my place , yet was cagey about going back to hers but it is understandable.
> Or maybe she had hubby stashed in the cupboard :rofl:



That IS strange! Another reason though is maybe her house is really messy and she is embarrassed!


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## PAgirl

Im still catching up as I haven't logged in since last Friday. But anyway, I just decided to be honest and tell him I wasn't comfortable going on a nature walk since its secluded for safety reasons. I saw some of you said not to say why! lol! oh well, I didn't follow that! So he was very understanding. I came up with a better idea! We went to a haunted hayride at a local ski resort...totally public and lots of fun!


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## PAgirl

bravenewworld said:


> I always text a friend with my date's name/telephone number and once I see their vehicle I will discreetly text a license plate number and car color/model.
> 
> Also, I ALWAYS send my friend a text when I arrive home in one piece. I think the best advice is to trust your gut, don't feel guilty saying no to hinky situations, and don't get inebriated. Be very suspicious of men (and women too!) who deliberately try to get you drunk.


Actually.... he made a joke that didn't sit well with me. We met up at a bar to have a drink before dinner and then the hayride. At the bar, we were talking about IPAs and how potent some of those beers are. The bartender got in the conversation talking about triple IPAs with over 10% alchohol. And my date said jokingly "oh then in that case, she will have three!". If he said that and we knew each other much longer and were a couple, I probably wouldn't mind the joke at all, but not on the second date. Just felt a bit inappropriate.


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## PAgirl

RandomDude said:


> ... but how do you get access to all this info? :scratchhead:
> 
> You sound like a secret agent! lol


My local county courthouse has an online free public search of any civil and criminal case history on its own county residents. You just need to know their first and last name.

Ive also found out about one guy's creepy past just by google! There was a newspaper story on how he broke his ex wife's fingers trying to pry a cell phone out of her hand! 

And there are the basic criminal background checks you can pay for which are cheap.


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## Tomara

I carry a stun gun that looks like a cell phone.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I'm not going to argue my point, because I don't want to go into specifics about my former types of work, where I've lived, who I've known and in what capacity. I have safety needs. 

However, the US is most definitely a violent society, on many levels and not just violent crime, and throughout history, consistently, with little to no change for the better...our country has become a police state. There is nothing democratic about our society. It's pretty much survival of the fittest here. 

The next scrimmage on the home front is going to be brutal.
It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
The riot index is going up, and some riots are even about...not protests against or for some kind of cause...but about disrupting a nonpolitical community event. Just for sport and fun. 
I guess they felt left out due to all the riots that had a root cause.
And there are plenty of those.

This is going to be my last post here.
The going on about safety, defending the country, and then being revealed to be the posting of a white military male...absolutely my point. And how mingling was had with non-whites, but somehow got lucky. (Bang head repeatedly.)


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## Holland

I live in Australia EW, south of where Random lives. Bad things happen here for sure but you guys are on a whole different level. We have no gun culture and the person walking around with a gun or pepper spray or taser would be considered crackers here and to be avoided. As I said, never done a background check on a date and never felt the need to. My sis is having a first coffee date tonight with a man she met online, no stress she simply told me where and what time, no need to panic or go I to investigator mode. It is a totally different culture you guys have, I feel very blessed to have been born here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## movealong

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> This is going to be my last post here.
> The going on about safety, defending the country, and then being revealed to be the posting of a white military male...absolutely my point. And how mingling was had with non-whites, but somehow got lucky. (Bang head repeatedly.)


The fact that you have to make a personal attack speaks volumes.


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## Fenix

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> And how mingling was had with non-whites, but somehow got lucky. (Bang head repeatedly.)



 Yeah, I know. 

I will say that the experience of an upper socioeconomic white woman is very different than the experience of any other race. 

Things like Ferguson are a wake up call to be sure. And it is one after hitting the snooze button for about 2 decades.


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## Fenix

Holland said:


> I live in Australia EW, south of where Random lives. Bad things happen here for sure but you guys are on a whole different level. We have no gun culture and the person walking around with a gun or pepper spray or taser would be considered crackers here and to be avoided. As I said, never done a background check on a date and never felt the need to. My sis is having a first coffee date tonight with a man she met online, no stress she simply told me where and what time, no need to panic or go I to investigator mode. It is a totally different culture you guys have, I feel very blessed to have been born here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's how I operate. I don't give out my phone number or last name though until after I meet him and get a feel.



movealong said:


> The fact that you have to make a personal attack speaks volumes.


I didn't take that as a personal *attack*. It is understandable that your experience is very different than HNU's, who is a bi-racial woman in the whitest state in the union. Add in her profession... 

Anyway, convos like this are good in that it clues us in an other experiences, especially if we can drop our defenses and really listen (and be challenged). Her experiences don't make it the norm, just as yours don't. Still, it is important to be aware of the wide variation and not discount it.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Holland said:


> I live in Australia EW, south of where Random lives. Bad things happen here for sure but you guys are on a whole different level. We have no gun culture and the person walking around with a gun or pepper spray or taser would be considered crackers here and to be avoided. As I said, never done a background check on a date and never felt the need to. My sis is having a first coffee date tonight with a man she met online, no stress she simply told me where and what time, no need to panic or go I to investigator mode. It is a totally different culture you guys have, I feel very blessed to have been born here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think we are any more dangerous here in the US. The gun culture is part of our history more than a sign of violence. It was written in the constitution and taking away guns is kind of like putting the cat back in the bag. The whole "protect me and mine" mentality is just a normal thing. 

But I grew up in the country. Most people in the suburbs have never held a gun and don't own one. 

As to pepper spray/mace/tasers... I think because of the media and the need to sensationalize everything, people are more cautious than they really need to be. I'm the opposite of a helicopter parent. People seem to not be able to put the news in context. More children are abducted or molested by people they know. But because stories like Tracy Dugard was splashed all over the news, everyone is afraid to let their child out of sight. And when it comes to dating, stories of being drugged, raped, etc. are all over the news. Reality isn't nearly as bad but since noone has done a study on the # of dates that don't go wrong for the one that does, there's fear.

I don't do background checks out of fear of assault so much as for character check. I don't want to get overly involved with anyone with a questionable past even if it's non-violent because it speaks to their judgement and character.


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## movealong

Fenix said:


> I didn't take that as a personal *attack*. It is understandable that your experience is very different than HNU's, who is a bi-racial woman in the whitest state in the union. Add in her profession...
> 
> Anyway, convos like this are good in that it clues us in an other experiences, especially if we can drop our defenses and really listen (and be challenged). Her experiences don't make it the norm, just as yours don't. Still, it is important to be aware of the wide variation and not discount it.


I find it ironic that in such a Progressive state that racism is so prevalent. I have never been to Massachusetts, and I had this idea that such a Progressive state would be post-racial. I wrongly assumed that based on lack of information.

I am "white". When people see me, they cannot see my mixed racial heritage, nor is it something I discuss in casual conversation. The fact that I am registered to vote in Cherokee Nation elections is not really something that comes up in casual conversation. Another thing that "normally" does not come up in casual conversation is the time I spent living on Reservations in New Mexico and Arizona. You want to see an interesting dichotomy of racism? Move to reservation where they believe you are white and treat you bad, then find out that you are not only "white", but also not of their tribe and it gets worse. I do not feel sorry for HNU, or her lack of ability to deal civilly with another person (regardless of race or gender) when that person disagrees with her. It shows a lack of class that is unbecoming of a person of education and intelligence.



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> This is going to be my last post here.
> The going on about safety, defending the country, and then being revealed to be the posting of a white military male...absolutely my point. And how mingling was had with non-whites, but somehow got lucky. (Bang head repeatedly.)


To make my point, please review my post to which she responded. Did I use my Naval service as anything other than an explanation of how and why I was able to visit other countries? Did I get on a soap box about how I "defended" our country? I was a medic. I didn't go fight I went to help our troops, and where I could save their lives and get them back home. So what is _*her*_ point? It seems that she believes that because I am male, white, and served in the military that my observation, experience, and opinion do not count.

When I make a point that I was able to integrate with my neighbors, I am somehow privileged? What the actual hell is wrong with her thinking? To be safe in any neighborhood, it is beneficial to know your neighbors. 

I understand your points, and I appreciate you making them civilly. I did take it as a personal attack, and as a straw man/red herring argument to deflect from her inability to defend her position with anything other than "Believe me because I said so".

eta - changed a spelling error


----------



## Almostrecovered

Tomara said:


> I carry a stun gun that looks like a cell phone.



did you ever knock yourself out trying to make a phone call?


----------



## PAgirl

EnjoliWoman said:


> But I grew up in the country. Most people in the suburbs have never held a gun and don't own one.
> 
> As to pepper spray/mace/tasers... I think because of the media and the need to sensationalize everything, people are more cautious than they really need to be. I'm the opposite of a helicopter parent. People seem to not be able to put the news in context. More children are abducted or molested by people they know. But because stories like Tracy Dugard was splashed all over the news, everyone is afraid to let their child out of sight. And when it comes to dating, stories of being drugged, raped, etc. are all over the news. Reality isn't nearly as bad but since noone has done a study on the # of dates that don't go wrong for the one that does, there's fear.


I don't know what you mean by reality isn't as bad. Its not like these stories are fake. I live in the Philadelphia suburbs. There are tons of stories of murder, rape, abduction, and other crazy stuff every night on the news. I wouldn't call it sensationalized; its just informing the public what is out there to be on alert. And yes, most of it is in the worst sections of Philly but not all of it. Some are in the nice suburbs too. I do agree that the chance of something happening on a date is probably small, but that chance is DEFINITELY there and no reason to be not be too careful nowadays.


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## Almostrecovered

Chester, Delaware, Montgomery or Bucks?


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## Almostrecovered

maybe I could set you up with a nice Jewish guy


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## EnjoliWoman

PAgirl said:


> I don't know what you mean by reality isn't as bad. Its not like these stories are fake. I live in the Philadelphia suburbs. There are tons of stories of murder, rape, abduction, and other crazy stuff every night on the news. I wouldn't call it sensationalized; its just informing the public what is out there to be on alert. And yes, most of it is in the worst sections of Philly but not all of it. Some are in the nice suburbs too. I do agree that the chance of something happening on a date is probably small, but that chance is DEFINITELY there and no reason to be not be too careful nowadays.


Those things absolutely happen. And bad things happen in good neighborhoods. My point was only that we HEAR about them all of the time to the point it almost feels imminent but what are the odds of it actually happening to each individual? It's like hearing about car wrecks every day but the individual risk is relatively low. 

If we assume 50% of single females date, each dating on average 2x a month, I bet the incident of date rape is a really small percentage. Noone wants to BE one in that small percentage so we carry mace, do background checks and try to make good choices. But it doesn't mean the risk here is any higher than the risk in Australia. It does mean the level of concern is much higher and I think that is driven by media coverage.


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## bravenewworld

Even with fluctuation for neighborhood crime rate - the odds you will be a victim of violent crime are not statistically that high in the US, provided you are not engaging in criminal activity and do not regularly travel between 2am-5am. While that time is commonly referred to as "the witching hour" it's actually true that robberies/muggings/etc. peak around those hours. Unless the weather is crappy (also true!)

I am a big fan of trusting one's gut and investigating further IF necessary. Honestly, if I found out someone did a full background check on me before even meeting me, I would be pissed. 

To those living outside the US - it's not common here to be on the receiving end of violence from strangers or be quite so paranoid. I've traveled the world and also lived in a lot of different types of neighborhoods. I have no doubt I've been lucky, but I also have a strong belief the majority of people in this world are good.

Edited to add: I do understand doing a criminal background check IF you have children and are planning to introduce them. Once you introduce a new person to the household the likelihood of molestation occurring does shoot up to 3x greater than if both birth parents are married and/or living together in the home.


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## LongWalk

Given that the US has a big drug habit, plenty of unemployed folks, single parent families, etc. crime is always a risk. You have to know where you are. And who you are hanging out with.


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## EnjoliWoman

bravenewworld said:


> Even with fluctuation for neighborhood crime rate - the odds you will be a victim of violent crime are not statistically that high in the US, provided you are not engaging in criminal activity and do not regularly travel between 2am-5am. While that time is commonly referred to as "the witching hour" it's actually true that robberies/muggings/etc. peak around those hours. Unless the weather is crappy (also true!)
> 
> I am a big fan of trusting one's gut and investigating further IF necessary. Honestly, if I found out someone did a full background check on me before even meeting me, I would be pissed.
> 
> To those living outside the US - it's not common here to be on the receiving end of violence from strangers or be quite so paranoid. I've traveled the world and also lived in a lot of different types of neighborhoods. I have no doubt I've been lucky, but I also have a strong belief the majority of people in this world are good.
> 
> Edited to add: I do understand doing a criminal background check IF you have children and are planning to introduce them. Once you introduce a new person to the household the likelihood of molestation occurring does shoot up to 3x greater than if both birth parents are married and/or living together in the home.


Agree completely! Also that last bit is why I verify. Actually I mostly do a background check to verify they aren't married, but the second motivation is for my daughter. 

I don't do it before I meet them - it's usually before I tell them my last name and/or where I live. I don't want a stalker/clinger. The whole "trust but verify" thing. I verify they have been truthful - not married and no criminal background. 

And I don't want to wait until right before I introduce them to my daughter because I don't want to fall in love only to find out something that is a deal breaker. It's not out of fear of physical harm so much.


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