# More Problems in Marriage



## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

Hello all,

My story starts at the following thread for those interested:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/29609-completely-numb-all.html


However, it has now been about a year after I found out "everything" about my wife's affair. We went through some seriously rough patches, but we both loved each other and decided we would do our best to work through things. We spent a lot of time soul searching and came to some conclusions about ourselves and how the problems in our marriage started her affair. However, I am now trying to figure out what my next step can be to get our marriage back on track. Here's the gist of the situation:

My wife and I would sometimes watch porn together to help us get in the mood. She regularly masturbates by herself, but I rarely (if ever) do. However, about a month ago she was out with her friends one evening late and the urge struck me. I of course looked at some videos on my phone, but I actually didn't even finish the deed. I actually got bored and decided to go to bed before my wife got home. Unbeknownst to me, my wife got home and checked my phone and found the video. The very next day she confronted me with it and I told her that I had watched it for a while but didn't end up finishing the task. She was incredibly upset and outright said that it was equivalent to cheating on her. I was somewhat confused and asked why she could say that when we watched porn together at times. Well, at this point she breaks down and tells me that she only did it because she wanted me to enjoy our time together, she has always hated it, and she in fact remembers a conversation we had four years ago about how she thought porn was cheating. I told her I had no recollection of this conversation but that I was sorry.

Fast forward to now and my has told me that she doesn't know if she wants to be married to me anymore. She loves me, but doesn't know if our marriage is worth the investment anymore. She has been increasingly distant and goes out with her work friends at least once (sometimes twice) a week. Stack all that on top of the fact that she is already gone three-four other days a week with her schooling and we rarely have any time together. I of course brought this up to her and she got immediately defensive and told me that she feels invisible when she's home. She feels like I don't care about her and that I don't treat her like a wife anymore. 

Since she is gone so often (which I have always been supportive of with school and her friends) I have taken on a lot of extra responsibility around the house. I clean, I cook, I do the yard work, and I spend all my spare time with my daughter. I have also begun working out and dieting and have lost 30 lbs since April. I am also preparing to begin schooling for myself to try to finish my college degree so I can get out of my dead end job and make something of myself. All the things my wife has asked me to do before because she wants me to not just "waste my potential."

Adding to all this is the fact that since she became so distant I actually started checking her phone again. She doesn't know this, and I don't plan on telling her anytime soon. She has always been free to check my phone, and my wife says the same thing. However, I have noticed that she regularly deletes her phone history, she deletes text messages, and a while back I actually found her talking to a guy from her previous job (tying into the aforementioned thread above detailing her affair) that she said she wouldn't talk to again. Unfortunately I can't tell with her phone who is the sender or receiver, so when I recently saw a conversation between this guy and her that said the following:

"I'm bored. Lets have sex."
"Nah, too short of a time."
"We can always make it work. LOL"

And that was it. This was also the same day she was gone from 9:00 AM until 11:00 PM at a baseball game in Chicago that started at 1:00 PM. I haven't asked her about any of this. I also saw their conversation the next day with one of them saying "Sorry about yesterday, I was really trashed" and the other one saying "It's okay, at least now I know how you feel about me. " I have no clue if anything actually happened. I do know that she still texts him from time to time due to being able to check our cell phone statements, but her phone never has any texts on it from him. I know it's his number, but everything is all deleted. 

Now, besides all that, we recently had a conversation with my mother in law that somehow got turned into her raving about how cheating is the ultimate betrayal in a marriage that should never be forgiven (her mother was cheated on a left by her father) and that watching porn is the same thing. I don't bring up my wife's affair anymore, but I am seriously worried about it happening again. At the same time I feel incredibly guilty for watching porn without my wife and my wife feeling like I cheated on her now. 

What do you all think? How can I salvage this? How can I prove to my wife she isn't invisible? How can I prove to her that I love her? And what do I do about the texts between her and this guy? Should I read into them, or am I being paranoid? I need some help, please.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Sorry but I'd have to say she's at it again

I would be willing to bet cold, hard cash that it's already physical to judging by the contents of the few texts you've seen.

She's using the porn issue as a way of justifying her affair, especially how it's (in her mind) you cheating on her

She doesn't know if your marriage is worth the effort
She's distant
She goes out 1 or 2 times a wek with "friends"
She's deleting her history and texts
She's talking/texting a guy she promised she wouldn't

Sorry but these are all HUGE red flags.

If I were you, I'd put sptware on her phone ASAP one night while she's asleep. Put a voice activated recorder under the car seat with heavy duty velcro. Put a key logger on the PC and then just sit back and wait.

I guess the final question is why would you want to be with this woman?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I agree with everything Toffer said except for the spyware -- why bother? The issues you are already aware of are plenty -- again, why would you want to be with this woman?

And so sorry.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

To answer both of your questions, I want to be with her because I love her. I had been in several relationships previously, but I had never felt this way about another human being in my life. I want things to be better, and I want a better marriage, and I guess I keep hoping things will eventually get better. 

Now, an update from last night. My wife went out with her friends for a birthday party (preplanned weeks ago) and got home around 12:30 AM. I was already asleep, but she immediately woke me up and asked me why I wanted to stay married and why we should try to make our marriage work. I told her the same things I said earlier in this post, and she immediately began bringing up every indiscretion I have committed in the relationship for the past four to five years. I mean, every last one of them. Things she has said she has forgiven me for were tossed in my face to show how I have never supported her, how I have never been there for her, and how she has always had to be the positive influence in the marriage. She then said the infamous words that I've read so often here on TAM: "I love you, but I'm not in love with you."

I had no idea how to respond. I immediately became somewhat rigid and told her that if she wasn't in love with me anymore then why would I continue to try to fight for this marriage. Of course that was just more ammunition for her to show how I never cared in the first place. It was awful. Now, I've come a long way since we've started dating (I had awful anger issues several years ago) and I never once raised my voice. I was completely calm, but obviously hurting. It was one of the most gut wrenching conversation we've ever had. During this conversation, while I'm trying my hardest not to break down mentally and physically, my wife received several text message on her phone. Every time she would get up from the bed, walk over to her phone on the nightstand, read the text, immediately delete the text, and then immediately delete the phone history. I watched her do this several times. I couldn't handle it anymore. 

I told her all about how I had been checking her phone due to her attitude and demeanor lately. I told her about the conversation I had seen between her and her former coworker. I then asked outright if she was cheating on me. I know, I was dumb. She immediately responded with defensive accusations, exaggerated claims to make me angry, and generally ignore my question. I finally told her she needed to explain the conversation, and she told me that she started talking to him when she was thinking about taking her old job back and he had propositioned her. She said that she shot down his attempts and told him that she is married and blah blah blah. I told her that I saw the entire conversation the next day as well and unfortunately the conversation ended up skewing wildly off track and I never got a straight answer.

After several attempts to try to understand what I need to do to show I care, and several attempts to try to understand just what I haven't been doing for her, she rolled over in bed and fell asleep while talking. I spent the rest of the evening until about 4 AM sitting on the couch in quiet contemplation. It was terrible. She woke up at around 4 AM and asked me to come to bed. I laid in bed staring at the ceiling until getting up for work while she slept soundly. I'm at a loss. I know that the signs point to her having another affair, but I have to believe she isn't. We just got past her previous affair, and I'm finally moving past things and trusting her again (somewhat, I obviously don't completely or else I wouldn't have checked her phone in the first place). 

I know the advice I'm probably going to receive the most of (concerning the possible affair) but until I can confirm that, can anyone please help me figure out how to show my wife I care and that I'm there for her? I've invested so much of myself into this woman and our daughter I can't stand to think about losing either of them. 

Thanks.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

She doesn't want to be with you anymore and may be a serial cheater.

She is blameshifting all the marriage problems onto you to justify treating you so badly. Anything you try to do to change her mind will be seen as "too little too late". Notice that she isn't asking you to change, she is just trying to make you the bad guy so she doesn't feel so guilty for how she treats you. At least you are home at night and not partying with friends and acting single.

You need to ask yourself what are you getting out of this relationship and why do you want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you? Relationships do not have to be like this.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

wow....she even convinced you that watching porn on your own was cheating- something you do together! She is very manipulative. Whoever was texting her for sex, even if it was a joke- should be cut off completely.


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## awkwardsit (May 12, 2012)

Knowing only what you have said I would say she is probably cheating again and using something like porn to guilt you into thinking it is your fault. I would confront her with some confidence that you are the the right side and try to get thinks out in the air.


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## Onmyway (Apr 25, 2012)

No, don't show her that you care, she's using you right now. You need to show her that you are better than this and will be just fine without her, you need to show her that you care for yourself. She is the one that needs to show you that she cares for you, not the other way around. 

Gather all of your evidence, go to a lawyer and serve her with divorce papers. Then kick her out. You can think about R when she realizes what she is losing, think about yourself and your daughter right now, not supporting your wife's partying.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

My guess.. is it the same affair, started up again.... She is reaching out for her emotional needs to the last people that satisfied them (Him, her friends...)

When you have a conversation/fight/argument... and she accuses you of not supporting her (i'm guessing she means emotionally/mentally).. You need to say that you are trying . THen ask her what SHE expects to be better? Ask her what the little things are that SHE is wanting to feel better? Does she want you to sex text her the way he is? Does she need more hugs? Does she want flowers? What is HER ideas of "how" she is not supported? Ask for specifics, so that you can work on them.

Tell her WHY you want to keep trying in the marriage. Write it all down, every last detail... Clean up the list... Re-write it days later.. etc... then have it on hand.. so that during a argument/discussion that verbally she is not "getting" why you want to keep trying in the marriage.. Tell her that "you don't know of any other way to express it... So here is a list of all the things I love about you. Here is a list of the reasons I want our marriage to last."

I don't know if it would work.. But maybe she needs the physical sight of seeing it in writing. If the texts from him are filling her emotional needs, then maybe sexy texts from you will start opening her up. Maybe seeing all your love written in a list will help her.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

The joys of technology...

I checked our phone statements online and found some additional information. She specifically told me that since their text messaging a little while ago (the messages I confronted her about) she has had no contact with him at all. Well, she texted him last night. He didn't respond, but she did send him a message. So, she lied. Also, I found that she sent over 100 messages to him last month and over 53 this month so far. There have also been several photo text messages sent and one additional thing that confuses me. Maybe someone with experience with Verizon can help me. In the data usage section of the call lists, it shows how many minutes have been used and what tower and what city the tower is closest to was using them. It shows the number called and I found a call either from him to her or from her to him near his home about an hour south of us. Is the tower listed showing my wife's number calling from that area, or is it the other way around. Any help would be beneficial.

I am not discounting the affair theory at this point, because I know something has been going on. I don't want to believe it, and I'm not going to confront until I have rock solid proof. However, until then I will do what you suggested Chelle D. Thank you so far to everyone. If you have any additional advice, please let me know. I can definitely use the help right about now.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm sorry hun. It really sounds like you will be open to a heartbreak in the future.

Unfortunately, you cannot control her heartstrings. You can try to re-connect with her on a spiritual/emotional level. But if she is shutting you out... & things don't get better.. don't be hard on yourself. It takes two to make things work. If you doing all you can to make it happen, doesn't bring her around.. realize that you did the best you can do, and don't blame yourself.

But until then, I really think you need a discussion with her about the specifics of what you are doing "wrong"... So you can have areas that you can really work on.. That you are committed to trying to salvage your marriage. Without getting the specifics down, it sounds like you are just shooting arrows in the dark. You will never hit a bullseye that way.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

InsecureSecurity said:


> To answer both of your questions, I want to be with her because I love her. I had been in several relationships previously, but I had never felt this way about another human being in my life. I want things to be better, and I want a better marriage, and I guess I keep hoping things will eventually get better.
> 
> Now, an update from last night. My wife went out with her friends for a birthday party (preplanned weeks ago) and got home around 12:30 AM. I was already asleep, but she immediately woke me up and asked me why I wanted to stay married and why we should try to make our marriage work. I told her the same things I said earlier in this post, and she immediately began bringing up every indiscretion I have committed in the relationship for the past four to five years. I mean, every last one of them. Things she has said she has forgiven me for were tossed in my face to show how I have never supported her, how I have never been there for her, and how she has always had to be the positive influence in the marriage. She then said the infamous words that I've read so often here on TAM: "I love you, but I'm not in love with you."
> 
> ...


I have seen this behavour before. I agree with Toffer and I will add that she is trying to drive you away. She is trying to hammer on you until you pull the trigger on it yourself.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Contact an attorney and get a divorce brother. She's not worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

speaking as a woman, I would not respect or "love" a man who allowed me to abuse him this way. I would have no reason to. I am sorry but I think at this point you need to protect yourself and your child as best you can from the inevitable, and find a good attorney, which does not necessarily = divorce, but it will = being prepared and give you a sense of possible outcomes.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

All the actions and behaviors that will show your WW that you do care for her won't mean a hill of bean until OM is completely out of the picture.

I'm sure you heards this time and again last year when you started your 1st thread. 

I'm also sure your read this time and again and that if there are no consequences then it will continue.

You my friend are trying to "be nice" to get out of this crap. But I'm sorry until you start pissing her off and pushing her a way you will continue to suffer.

So if your going to continue suffering it may as well be making this affair as uncomfortable and as inconvienent as possible. There is no nice way to fight this crap and until you stop getting emotionally blackmailed and stop tolorating her managing you by letting her blameshift and gaslight you, then you are in for a long haul.

You asked how you can show her you care....well start by letting her go. You need to start caring about your self before you can care for others. Just like the oxygen mask on the airplane....put you O2 mask on 1st then save your love one.

Please start by using the resources that other have provided you from your old thread. What ever you are doing is not working so please take the step mentioned here on this forum. No matter how painful it is, at the very least you can get your self out from under this b*llsh*t your WW is putting you through.

It is up to you to take control and when you do your WW won't like it. It will only been at this point will she either turn the corner you want her to or turn the corner away from you, but at least a corner will be turn and you can move on from this crap you have been dealing with since last year.

Can you see her blaming you is just her managing you so she can continue to have her boyfriend?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I took a quick breeze through your last thread and one major point I noticed is in all the talking you guys do it always ends up that you are to blame for her cheating.

Your WW is good I mean she is realy good. She can manipulate the hell out of the many converstation you both have regarding the A.

The second thing I noticed is that she has yet to own her A and suffer any real consequences b/c at the end of the day she truely believes her action were not her fault and it was all you.

So no wonder you are back here with the same infidelity crap. Her behavior is not so much about validation issues as much as it is about entitlement issues. She truely believes she is entitled to have these A's b/c of you and her rape.

When its all said and done she has your number and continues to play you, She sees how weak you are and continues to give you just enough to keep you around, why she puts up with it IDK but I have a feeling she is a very smart women and you meet a need for her. As far as meeting any of your needs...she gives you just enough then bails, only to wait for your next sign of weakness and then she gives you a little more.

Again you are meeting some need of hers but will not except a divorce or alow you to be happy. she can't stand to deal with you but for some reason your happiness really doesn't matter, so her selfish need for you has no bearing on your feelings what so ever, just hers.

Face it brother she has to have other men in her life, thats just how she's wired. Now its up to your to tolorate it or risk getting hit and slapped again when you ask for another divorce.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't think you'll be able to salvage it. You say you love her, but it's clear that she doesn't love you to the same degree. I'm curious what has kept her from leaving - because she is emotionally checked out and continues doing this knowing full well that you're going to find out from your cell phone bills etc. 

I've written two articles that may be helpful to you while you're going through this. The first one, Cheat a Cheater: Keep Your Head Up When Your Thoughts Aren't Clear gives you a few specific steps you should take when having discussions with your wife. 

The second one, After the Affair: Should You Leave if Your Partner Cheated? offers important points to consider about whether it's more beneficial to stay or leave. 

Best wishes, whatever you decide.


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## InsecureSecurity (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks for all the information and advice folks. It appears as if she has not contacted the guy since May 11th now. Not a long time by any means, but I don't want to proceed with anything until I know for sure. I have to know for sure. 

Some background information concerning my daughter. She is not my biological daughter. She's not even my adopted daughter (yet, hopefully), so I would have zero chance in keeping contact with her if my wife and I were to divorce. I know that can't be my reason to stay, but it is definitely weighing heavily on my right now.

My wife and I had a decent weekend together though. It was mother's day, and we spent all our time with family. However, as soon as we left the safety of her mother's home, we immediately started into things again. She yelled that she hates being home with me and around me. She feels like she is always fighting for the marriage and she always has to be positive. She fought hard for me when she had an affair (she quit her job and stopped hanging out with guys all the time, something she has started doing again and she is trying to get a job back at the same place). She hates my negativity, and she has a point there. I am a very cynical person. I suffered physical and mental abuse as a child from my mother, I was constantly ridiculed in school for being somewhat of a giant, I've been cheated on multiple times by different women, and I have pretty much no self confidence. Hell, as I'm typing this I'm starting to realize why women seem to run away from me. It's somewhat disappointing. 

Anyhow, after our fight she finally said she didn't like the fact that I don't initiate date nights anymore (something we have argued about forever since she continually shot down all of my ideas for a date night) and that I stopped holding her as much when we were together. We ended up watching TV and holding each other until about 12AM. Normally I love that sort of thing, but it felt...off. I don't know how to explain it, but it felt weird. I need to become more strong in my convictions, and I know it. I'm working on it. There's just a lot to think about and figure out. 

Thanks everyone. I'll keep updating when I have additional information.


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