# Overnight fishing trip?..Help



## Cheesehead86 (Jan 8, 2014)

My fiancé and I have always had ground rules that if we go out with friends, we always come home that night. Usually at a reasonably hour. Over the course of our 3 year relationship, we've made very little time for friends, but more time for our family, my two children, our careers, my schooling, we bought a house and many other wonderful "life courses" have taken up our time. We've gotten busy building our future. The other night, my Fiance randomly tells me that he is going out fishing, at night with a buddy. It struck me as odd, but I just brushed it off. Tonight when I asked him what time he was coming home, he informed me they were going to be sleeping out on the ice in a pop up camper. He has never stayed away from home, and never with a buddy. The buddy he is going out with is someone who he has mentioned in the past as someone he does not particularly care for because of his choices in life. Also, the same buddy text him one night encouraging him to come over because there were strippers over that wanted two D***s instead of one. Further, another buddy he was friends with in high school will most likely be joining, one of which he has also never talked to throughout our relationship and who he has never had anything good to say about him. Both of these men are people he has talked strongly against during our relationship because they make different choices then he and they don't have anything in common in life. I just don't get it and I just don't feel good about this. Any thoughts on this? I've tried talking to him about it but he says I'm being ridiculous. This just all seems so random..


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cheesehead86 said:


> *My fiancé and I have always had ground rules that if we go out with friends, we always come home that night. Usually at a reasonably hour. *Over the course of our 3 year relationship, we've made very little time for friends, but more time for our family, my two children, our careers, my schooling, we bought a house and many other wonderful "life courses" have taken up our time. We've gotten busy building our future. The other night, my Fiance randomly tells me that he is going out fishing, at night with a buddy. It struck me as odd, but I just brushed it off. Tonight when I asked him what time he was coming home, he informed me they were going to be sleeping out on the ice in a pop up camper*. He has never stayed away from home, and never with a buddy. The buddy he is going out with is someone who he has mentioned in the past as someone he does not particularly care for because of his choices in life. Also, the same buddy text him one night encouraging him to come over because there were strippers over that wanted two D***s instead of one. Further, another buddy he was friends with in high school will most likely be joining, one of which he has also never talked to throughout our relationship and who he has never had anything good to say about him. Both of these men are people he has talked strongly against during our relationship because they make different choices then he and they don't have anything in common in life.* I just don't get it and I just don't feel good about this. Any thoughts on this? I've tried talking to him about it but he says I'm being ridiculous. This just all seems so random..


Of course you " get it!"
Why are you doubting yourself?
You've already filled in the blanks but you're probably afraid of being called
" controlling" or "jealous and insecure."


You know deep down in your gut that they're up to no good.
Furthermore this is something you guys discussed at length before.
The question is ,he's about to trespass a boundary that you both agreed on.
What do you plan to do about it?
If you do nothing, he will simply do it again.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

sorry to tell you this but I think you are being over controlling, if he has not given you reason to doubt him (as extrange behaviours, secretive phone calls or constant messaging) then is probably what he is tellig you a boys night with beer camping.

sometimes is good give him his space to not create a codepedant relationship, if you want to be at easy just check that his actions and words match, you cna check if he is taking his fishing equipment, you can check the FB of the other guys, many times people post when they have this kind of events.

but think it like this if he is going to this extremes to cheat the he is a man that is not worth to share a life with.

I personally think that it can be as he says a camping night, but if you feel insecure you can hide a VAR in his car or equipment, and even track his phone with GPS to see where is he.


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## HeartInPieces (Sep 13, 2013)

Well I don’t see the problem him going on a trip with his friends. He might need to time away with his friends. My problems come in with the friends your fiance has both of them seems toxic. I wouldn't feel good with my husband going out with guys like that either. If he was my husband he wouldn't be going on that trip


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I would ask him details about the trip like "so what did you guys do?" "what kind of fish did you catch?" "did you enjoy it?" Just make sure you aren't coming across as drilling him or suspecting him. Make sure you seem "intrigued" and interested, but CALM so that you can concentrate on how he is answering you.

If he becomes defensive and rude, then he is most likely lying to you. Liars hate having to lie. Ironic isn't it?


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## Cheesehead86 (Jan 8, 2014)

What sticks out the most to me is that these are people that he has never considered friends throughout our relationship. He has always mentioned how he has nothing in common with them and that they were all friends in highschool (10+) years ago and that he does not understand why these guys won't stop calling and texting him..because he does not want nothing to do with them. One lives at home with is mom, does not work, sits on SSI for depression, smokes pot all day, has 3 kids and does mudding as a hobby. The other pretty much does the same, accept he has a house and works part time, but he is the one that sent the stripper text. We on the other hand are very accomplished and have very successful careers, do not do drugs nor do associate with anyone that lives there lifestyle Not bashing it, but not the way we lead our lives. My Fiance is an avid hunter and fisher during the summer, but has never ice fished during our 3 years of our relationship. I'm more concerned with the lack of respect that he has chosen over the situation than the feelings of distrust..but the whole situation seems a little out of character to me. I've never went through his phone, texts etc., so I wouldn't know what does and does not seem off. He also has never really talked on the phone around me, but rather goes in a separate room, which I can appreciate. We've always had a trusting and tight relationship, but even trying to talk to him about this one got blown way out of the water. We are in a huge fight over it and I'm just confused.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

I would be concerned both because its so random and out of character for him, and because you mention that he doesn't like the friend very much. 

All your friends should be a friend of the marriage, and if this guy typically cavorts with strippers, he doesn't necessarily sound like a friend of the marriage. Your husband should grow some balls and cut these people out of his life if he doesn't like them, rather than accept their invitations.

Are you sure your husband is actually going where he says he is going? Is there any way you can verify it? 

How would your husband feel if out of the blue you announced you were going on an overnight trip with someone you don't know well? I have a feeling he wouldn't like it. 

You're not being overly controlling. You have a right to be concerned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

This is a lose-lose situation. If he goes, the boundary created breaks and if he doesn't go, him and his buddies will see you as being irrational. 

The question is: Do you trust him enough to spend one night away from you or do you stand strong to your deal with him?


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## Cheesehead86 (Jan 8, 2014)

He did tell me the lake and said "Do you want to come?!," but he knows I'm not going to come and he knows I'm not going to go check. I really feel like if I need to go check, we have a lot bigger problems. My instant feelings are if I have a problem with it, whether I'm right or wrong, that should be respected and taken into consideration. My thought is that in a committed relationship the reaction to that would be that he would not be going over night, which is what I told him my preference was, however, he is viewing as me not trusting him, telling him what to do and that he is telling me in advance what his plans are, so I should not have an issue with it. He won't talk about it any further and he is telling me he is nothing going to be treated like this..I did raise my voice on the issue..over the whole stripper thing. I just don't see how he does not see having a friends like that, after he has proclaimed this is not his friend for so long, as an issue for a friend. I do agree that all friends should be a friend of the marriage or at least respect the marriage at all times. I told him, if a friend of mine ever called and said anything like that, or put me in that situation, I would never talk to them again. I only want people in my life and marriage that are respectful and have the same morals and values as me, my fiancé and marriage.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Just know that this will continue into the marriage.

He is viewing this situation with a different thought process of you. Most likely, he has no plans of cheating on you. He is seeing you as acting like his mother--telling him who he's allowed to be friends with or not. He feels belittled, you don't trust him, and you are controlling him. 

At the end of the day, he is not yet married to you and he should leave you IMO. This would be a deal breaker for me. You do not trust him and you use his buddies text message as an excuse.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

Cheesehead86 said:


> He did tell me the lake and said "Do you want to come?!," but he knows I'm not going to come and he knows I'm not going to go check. I really feel like if I need to go check, we have a lot bigger problems. My instant feelings are if I have a problem with it, whether I'm right or wrong, that should be respected and taken into consideration. My thought is that in a committed relationship the reaction to that would be that he would not be going over night, which is what I told him my preference was, however, he is viewing as me not trusting him, telling him what to do and that he is telling me in advance what his plans are, so I should not have an issue with it. He won't talk about it any further and he is telling me he is nothing going to be treated like this..I did raise my voice on the issue..over the whole stripper thing. I just don't see how he does not see having a friends like that, after he has proclaimed this is not his friend for so long, as an issue for a friend. I do agree that all friends should be a friend of the marriage or at least respect the marriage at all times. I told him, if a friend of mine ever called and said anything like that, or put me in that situation, I would never talk to them again. I only want people in my life and marriage that are respectful and have the same morals and values as me, my fiancé and marriage.


I agree that all you should decide together. He is basically telling you that he is doing whatevet he wants and you to just have to deal with it. 

Maybe some payback is in order. Let him go, then plan a similar overnight outing with a friend he doesn't like, spring it on him, and tell him its non-negotiable. If he protests, tell him he is being controlling and untrusting. Bet he will love that! 

The whole thing sound suspicious to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

wise said:


> Just know that this will continue into the marriage.
> 
> He is viewing this situation with a different thought process of you. Most likely, he has no plans of cheating on you. He is seeing you as acting like his mother--telling him who he's allowed to be friends with or not. He feels belittled, you don't trust him, and you are controlling him.
> 
> At the end of the day, he is not yet married to you and he should leave you IMO. You do not trust him and you use his buddies text message as an excuse.


Are you really serious? If anything HIS actions show a lack of respect, not hers.

She said that he goes hunting and fishing in summer and she has no issue with it. But she doesn't trust this friend and it doesn't seem like he is a friend of the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hmm
I am with those who said let him go have some fun. Sometimes a guy just needs a night out with guys. BUT be assertive and keep your eyes and ears open. 
Trust but verify. 
It really sounds as if you two have a wonderful relationship. Trust him until he gives you a reason not to.
Why don't you put a loving note inside his tackle box? Sort of hide it, so it will not be easily found unless he opens and looks for his lures etc. 
Just a small way to check on him, whether he is indeed going fishing or not. If he does goes fishing he will find the note and be ever so loving to you, compliment you, and remember how much you love him.
If he doesn't find the note, more than likely he didn't go fishing and I would begin to worry.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

SolidSnake said:


> Are you really serious? If anything HIS actions show a lack of respect, not hers.
> 
> She said that he goes hunting and fishing in summer and she has no issue with it. But she doesn't trust this friend and it doesn't seem like he is a friend of the marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am completely serious.

They are NOT married yet. This is a blessing in disguise for the BOTH of them! She get's to see how he respects her and he gets to see how controlling she is. It will only get WORSE from here on out. 

Just because the guy has a old friend who is single and text messages stupid sh*t, does not mean her fiance is looking to stick every female out there. And guess what? If he does, then at least it happens now. 

The OP is controlling and whoever wants to devote their whole life to a woman of this kind.. please by all means, go for it. This guy will not be allowed to a super bowl party if a single female is there.. because she might talk to him. "I trust you.. it's just I don't trust that female!" It is no way to live and years and years of wasted time will accrue.

This is called controlling at it's finest due to being paranoid.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

ne9907 said:


> Hmm
> I am with those who said let him go have some fun. Sometimes a guy just needs a night out with guys. BUT be assertive and keep your eyes and ears open.
> Trust but verify.
> It really sounds as if you two have a wonderful relationship. Trust him until he gives you a reason not to.
> ...


I agree about hiding a note. 

I'm seeing that she doesn't necessarily have a problem letting him fish or have fun, but that she doesn't trust the company he is keeping on this particular trip, and apparently her husband doesn't even like the friends that much. That is why she is opposed to it. I could be wrong, but I see it as less of a control issue and more of a toxic friends issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cheesehead86 said:


> He did tell me the lake and said "Do you want to come?!," but he knows I'm not going to come and he knows I'm not going to go check. I really feel like if I need to go check, we have a lot bigger problems. My instant feelings are if I have a problem with it, whether I'm right or wrong, that should be respected and taken into consideration. My thought is that in a committed relationship the reaction to that would be that he would not be going over night, which is what I told him my preference was, however, he is viewing as me not trusting him, telling him what to do and that he is telling me in advance what his plans are, so I should not have an issue with it. He won't talk about it any further and he is telling me he is nothing going to be treated like this..I did raise my voice on the issue..over the whole stripper thing. I just don't see how he does not see having a friends like that, after he has proclaimed this is not his friend for so long, as an issue for a friend. I do agree that all friends should be a friend of the marriage or at least respect the marriage at all times. I told him, if a friend of mine ever called and said anything like that, or put me in that situation, I would never talk to them again. I only want people in my life and marriage that are respectful and have the same morals and values as me, my fiancé and marriage.


You are quite right to feel the way you do , but if you let this continue , it could only get worse.
What I'm seeing is that he feels he's entitled to do whatever he wants just as long as he informs you before. Furthermore , he's offended when you call him on it.
What do you think is causing this ?

Fact is you both agreed on the no nights out boundary, he decided on his own to break it and appears to be telling you that you should be ok with that , simply because he said so. If you're not ok , he starts calling insecure and saying you don't trust him.

Where have I seen that before?

Also I don't understand why he leaves the room when you're in it ,if he receives a call on his phone .
But you seem to be ok with that.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> The buddy he is going out with is someone who he has mentioned in the past as someone he does not particularly care for because of his choices in life. Also, the same buddy text him one night encouraging him to come over because there were strippers over that wanted two D***s instead of one.


It doesn't sound as though it's the fishing trip that's the problem, but rather the company he'll be with...

I don't think it's at all controlling for you to tell your partner that you're not happy about him going away with a friend who disrespects your relationship like this.

He's ignoring previously agreed upon boundaries and you need to let him know that this unacceptable to you.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

wise said:


> I am completely serious.
> 
> They are NOT married yet. This is a blessing in disguise for the BOTH of them! She get's to see how he respects her and he gets to see how controlling she is. It will only get WORSE from here on out.
> 
> ...


What you are basically saying is that no one is allowed to have any boundaries in their relationship. Anyone can do whatever they want regardless if their spouses feelings. THERE is a real recipie for success in marriage for sure! 

I also don't know why you are bringing gender into it, but I bet you anything her fiance would not like it one bit if the roles were reversed. 

I think you are projecting some of your own bias onto the OPs situation. She has different boundaries than you do, and she has every right to be concerned. 

You are over the top with your criticism.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

SolidSnake said:


> What you are basically saying is that no one is allowed to have any boundaries in their relationship. Anyone can do whatever they want regardless if their spouses feelings. THERE is a real recipie for success in marriage for sure!
> 
> I also don't know why you are bringing gender into it, but I bet you anything her fiance would not like it one bit if the roles were reversed.
> 
> ...


So what you are telling me is that it is WRONG for him to have a camping night out with 'toxic' male friends because she said so? My god.. what a terrible thing for a guy to do. Oh, so horrible.

And no, not biased. I have never let a woman control me like that and I have a great/sexy woman that trusts me. Also, I have idiot friends who I like to be with from time to time and no, I don't act single when I am with them. If I wanted to cheat, I'd do it because I wanted to do it--not because some friends. 

This is the beginning to a no trust marriage, I've seen it hundreds of times. He will end up hiding things from her to avoid arguments.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

wise said:


> I am completely serious.
> 
> They are NOT married yet. This is a blessing in disguise for the BOTH of them! She get's to see how he respects her and he gets to see how controlling she is. It will only get WORSE from here on out.
> 
> ...


Errr no.

Boundaries define a relationship by determining what is allowed in it.
If two people agree on a boundary whether implicitly or explicitly , then the person who breaks the agreement ( boundary ) is the controlling one , because they are forcing the other partner to accept something they never agreed to.
Not the one who kept within the agreement.


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## Cheesehead86 (Jan 8, 2014)

wise said:


> I am completely serious.
> 
> They are NOT married yet. This is a blessing in disguise for the BOTH of them! She get's to see how he respects her and he gets to see how controlling she is. It will only get WORSE from here on out.
> 
> ...


Hi Wise, 
I definitely think you have the wrong picture. His friend is not single, and yes is an old friend(Greater than 10 years old), but one that my fiancé has made clear he does not want as a friend in his life. So to randomly rekindle a friendship on an overnight trip is like way, way out of the blue, and again, he has never ice fished throughout our relationship. Not saying it's an issues, but saying that that is three strikes of way out character behavior for him. Also, I did not know these two even spoke anymore. Further, I have no issues with his guy time, hunting, fishing or even him talking to girls. Actually, his best friend is a girl. No problems there at all. I'm smart, sexy and got my **** together. I have a great job and do not feel threatened by other women, or my husband leaving the house for a night so on and so forth. In fact, my fiancé gets 4 weeks vacation time each year. 2 go to hunting, one goes in reserves for appointments etc., and one is for time together for he and I. This year, I willingly said "no worries dear, take all three weeks for yourself." He takes his hunting trips 90 miles away..for the entire week at time with his brother. He also has hunting buddies he ventures off with throughout season too. I do not have issues with that, but only encourage and wish him good luck. Initially the situation seemed odd and maybe fishy, which is why I posted the post, but yes, there mainly is concerns of the friend and the lack of respect for my feelings on the situation.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

wise said:


> So what you are telling me is that it is WRONG for him to have a camping night out with 'toxic' male friends because she said so? My god.. what a terrible thing for a guy to do. Oh, so horrible.
> 
> And no, not biased. I have never let a woman control me like that and I have a great/sexy woman that trusts me. Also, I have idiot friends who I like to be with from time to time and no, I don't act single when I am with them. If I wanted to cheat, I'd do it because I wanted to do it--not because some friends.
> 
> This is the beginning to a no trust marriage, I've seen it hundreds of times. He will end up hiding things from her to avoid arguments.


No one said that it is wrong and to not go JUST because she told him so. She can't control him. No one can control anyone else, but they can expect to maturely express reasonable concerns without fear of reprisal, and negotiate a reasonable solution. 

Other people have different comfort levels than you do in your relationship. You seem to be insisting that everyone have the same behavior and comfort levels that you do. Not everyone is the same as you and that's ok. 

If he ends up hiding things from her its because he is not man enough to discuss and negotiate like a mature adult.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Errr no.
> 
> Boundaries define a relationship by determining what is allowed in it.
> If two people agree on a boundary whether implicitly or explicitly , then the person who breaks the agreement ( boundary ) is the controlling one , because they are forcing the other partner to accept something they never agreed to.
> Not the one who kept within the agreement.


And you are right; however, there are tons of different variations of what controlling is. 

Her using his buddies text messaging as not trusting him to go with them is her being controlling. I don't think it's the fact they made boundaries. I think it's the fact that she doesn't like these particular friends and doesn't want him involved with them which is ONLY the start to it all. This only shows both of their true colors.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

wise said:


> And you are right; however, there are tons of different variations of what controlling is.
> 
> Her using his buddies text messaging as not trusting him to go with them is her being controlling. I don't think it's the fact they made boundaries. I think it's the fact that she doesn't like these particular friends and doesn't want him involved with them which is ONLY the start to it all. This only shows both of their true colors.


_Posted via Mobile Device_

She has every right to not like a nasty friend. How do you know this is just the start? You are making assumptios and and projecting your own bias onto her situation.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

SolidSnake said:


> No one said that it is wrong and to not go JUST because she told him so. She can't control him. No one can control anyone else, but they can expect to maturely express reasonable concerns without fear of reprisal, and negotiate a reasonable solution.
> 
> Other people have different comfort levels than you do in your relationship. You seem to be insisting that everyone have the same behavior and comfort levels that you do. Not everyone is the same as you and that's ok.
> 
> ...


Completely understandable. I know that she is iffy on this whole thing but her fiance is NOT. He seems a lot like me and he feels like he is being controlled. That is the problem here. I get it that she doesn't like these friends and what not but this only paints a picture of what the immediate future might be like with her to him. 

The guy even asked her to go for heavens sake, and she's claiming that he only said that because 'he knew she wouldn't.' Whether he did or not, it's his way if saying.. 'if you dont trust me..'

All a boarding the Resentment train


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Lol, yes, lots of projecting going on in this thread. 

As for the actual problem the OP is facing, a partner who without any hint of previous contact with a friend who he didn't like suddenly going on a 'fishing' trip that is overnight, sounds like a guy who has been listening to his 'friend' tell him he's 'under the thumb' and 'show her you can do whatever you want whenever you want', and 'come out and have a great night with me' stuff. I guess in your situation I would not bother talking about it anymore. That seems to be getting you no where. If he goes and more disrespectful and negative attitudes towards you continues with more frequent association with this 'friend', you have the answer you are currently asking. Is he going to put his friends before me from now on? Yes. Is he someone I want to marry in that case? For me, that would be a 'no'.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Cheesehead86 said:


> Hi Wise,
> I definitely think you have the wrong picture. His friend is not single, and yes is an old friend(Greater than 10 years old), but one that my fiancé has made clear he does not want as a friend in his life. So to randomly rekindle a friendship on an overnight trip is like way, way out of the blue,


I'd be concerned with the type of person he may actually be.

You have mentioned a couple of times that these friends of his are from his past, when he was young and stupid, and that the two of you have gone on separate paths from these people since then. Good jobs, got it together, etc.

Most people know that they need to grow out of that stuff early in in life, some do, some don't. Some try, find a measure of success in maturing, but still don't feel right, and are essentially living the life they think others want them to. I think he might fall into that category.

I was a punk in my teens, and so were my friends. We got up to a lot of dumbassery back then. Then I grew up. Some of my friends did not. Through the magic of Facebook, I have learned that some of these people STILL have not grown up, and they want to get together, hang out, catch up, and party. I have no use for that, nor any desire to, just as I did when I was 20 and grew the hell up and stopped binge drinking, smoking dope, and being a clown.

Your fiancé, though likely much younger than I, seems to have attempted this growing up, but hasn't quite got there yet. Or worse, he's trying to decide whether the "real life" is really him or not.

Just be aware that your goals may not necessarily be his goals, once you're married, even if they appear to be now.

He should have no use for those people if he's serious about life. Doesn't mean they're not good guys, but they don't seem like good guys to be friends with your future husband.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cheesehead86 said:


> Hi Wise,
> I definitely think you have the wrong picture. His friend is not single, and yes is an old friend(Greater than 10 years old), but one that my fiancé has made clear he does not want as a friend in his life. So to randomly rekindle a friendship on an overnight trip is like way, way out of the blue, and again, he has never ice fished throughout our relationship. Not saying it's an issues, but saying that that is three strikes of way out character behavior for him. Also, I did not know these two even spoke anymore. Further, I have no issues with his guy time, hunting, fishing or even him talking to girls. Actually, his best friend is a girl. No problems there at all. I'm smart, sexy and got my **** together. I have a great job and do not feel threatened by other women, or my husband leaving the house for a night so on and so forth. In fact, my fiancé gets 4 weeks vacation time each year. 2 go to hunting, one goes in reserves for appointments etc., and one is for time together for he and I. This year, I willingly said "no worries dear, take all three weeks for yourself." He takes his hunting trips 90 miles away..for the entire week at time with his brother. He also has hunting buddies he ventures off with throughout season too. I do not have issues with that, but only encourage and wish him good luck. Initially the situation seemed odd and maybe fishy, which is why I posted the post, but yes, there mainly is concerns of the friend and the lack of respect for my feelings on the situation.


And I fully understand and agree with you.
Thing is , you are keeping your part of the agreement.

I really don't understand why some people here are always so quick to frame other people who are concerned about the sanctity their relationship as controlling.
People invest their lives into relationships , their literal blood , sweat and tears. Why shouldn't they be able to protect it without the fear of being assigned some negative label?

We are all humans , prone to making mistakes , some mistakes are easily repairable and others can drastically alter and change the course of your life. The " butterfly effect."

I don't think you're controlling at all. If anything , you are very observant and have your finger planted firmly on the pulse of your relationship, which IMO , is very admirable given what you two have accomplished in your lives. You care too deeply about the family you have built with your fiancée to allow anyone , whether male of female to just whimsically upset the natural order of things.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Cheesehead86 said:


> Hi Wise,
> I definitely think you have the wrong picture. His friend is not single, and yes is an old friend(Greater than 10 years old), but one that my fiancé has made clear he does not want as a friend in his life. So to randomly rekindle a friendship on an overnight trip is like way, way out of the blue, and again, he has never ice fished throughout our relationship. Not saying it's an issues, but saying that that is three strikes of way out character behavior for him. Also, I did not know these two even spoke anymore. Further, I have no issues with his guy time, hunting, fishing or even him talking to girls. Actually, his best friend is a girl. No problems there at all. I'm smart, sexy and got my **** together. I have a great job and do not feel threatened by other women, or my husband leaving the house for a night so on and so forth. * In fact, my fiancé gets 4 weeks vacation time each year. 2 go to hunting, one goes in reserves for appointments etc., and one is for time together for he and I. This year, I willingly said "no worries dear, take all three weeks for yourself." He takes his hunting trips 90 miles away..for the entire week at time with his brother. He also has hunting buddies he ventures off with throughout season too. I do not have issues with that, but only encourage and wish him good luck. *Initially the situation seemed odd and maybe fishy, which is why I posted the post, but yes, there mainly is concerns of the friend and the lack of respect for my feelings on the situation.


I'm confused. I thought you said you had rules about coming home every night. But you have no problem with him going on trips in the summer with other people. If that's the case, I can see why your fiance would not think it was a big deal to go on an overnight ice fishing trip.

As to the guys on the trip, maybe your fiance always wanted to try ice fishing and these are the guys who want to go. Or they decided to go and he thought it be fun to try. 

What are you worried about? That he is not going ice fishing and is going for a night on the town to hook up with other women? That he is going ice fishing, but you're afraid these guys are toxic and will influence his thoughts while on this trip?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

The hunting buddies and his brother are friends to both of them and respect their boundaries.
They both agreed on the hunting trip.

She didn't agree on this particular ice fishing trip.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> The hunting buddies and his brother are friends to both of them and respect their boundaries.
> They both agreed on the hunting trip.
> 
> She didn't agree on this particular ice fishing trip.


Yeah, but her fiance might not understand this, because they got into a big fight about it and lots of things were said. She herself said upthread that she _just now _realizes that she's mostly upset about these guys. So how well did she express herself to him? When did he stop listening, get defensive and start fighting?

So maybe it wasn't clear enough for her fiance to understand where she's coming from, which is why it led to a big fight. Maybe he could use more discussion so he sees that this is less about being controlling and more about feeling threatened by toxic friends.

This isn't about being right or wrong. It's about communicating in a way the other person understands and can actually consider, instead of throwing a bunch of angry thoughts out in an argument.

I'd suggest she talk with him again when they are both more calm, and then she try to explain what's at the heart of her issue so that he can try to understand it. If talking isn't an option because he's still upset, maybe a concise email can help open the door to more conversation.


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## Cheesehead86 (Jan 8, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> The hunting buddies and his brother are friends to both of them and respect their boundaries.
> They both agreed on the hunting trip.
> 
> She didn't agree on this particular ice fishing trip.


Yes and family is definitely an exception. Thank you Caribbean man and solidsnake. You both understand my position and seem to speak the same language. Appreciate the sound input and advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

Cheesehead86 said:


> Yes and family is definitely an exception. Thank you Caribbean man and solidsnake. You both understand my position and seem to speak the same language. Appreciate the sound input and advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are welcome. 

Norajane makes a good point though. Did you present your objections to your fiance in a non-confrontational way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Cheesehead,

I will try to give you another perspective because I caution you against listening only to the advice that agrees with you.

Some people on these forums see a cheater around every corner, so take that into consideration too. 

Are you being too controlling? Maybe, because I don't know everything about your relationship, but I don't think that's your intention here. You and your partner can decide whatever boundaries you want for your relationship. But in this case, your boundary simply might not be realistic. 

You don't like his friends. I get that. But that's why they are his friends and not yours. Look, express your concern and look out for any danger signs, but I STRONGLY recommend that you allow him to go on this trip unless you have any evidence that he has ever cheated on you or will ever cheat on you. 

Look at this logically. Even if you prevent him from going on the trip, he will be resentful about it, and you won't have a good time together at home. Then sometime in the future, when you want to take a trip of your own to visit one of your best friends, he will pull out the "boundary card" and veto your trip too. So you both will be miserable with the only consolation that at least you are both equally miserable. What fun!

Let him go, but keep your eyes and ears open. Think of it this way: *if you can't trust this guy to go on a fishing trip with his friends, then why are you still with him in the first place?*


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I think the OP told us that these were boundaries that had already been mutually agreed upon. Objecting to those boundaries being changed without negotiation can hardly be seen as controlling... The (serious) dating / engagement period is the time for building a sound foundation for marriage, and a friend such as the one described in the OP can hardly be perceived as marriage friendly.

Now is very much the time for the OP to voice these sort of objections. Not after the knot is tied.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cheesehead86 said:


> Yes and family is definitely an exception. Thank you Caribbean man and solidsnake. You both understand my position and seem to speak the same language. Appreciate the sound input and advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Glad I was able to help.

But I think you and your fiance might be able to solve this budding problem if both of you meet and discuss this amicably, meaning speak with each other and not to each other.

His feelings of resentment is no more important in this relationship than your feelings of betrayal and concern.

This might be a god time to take some time out and openly discuss the issues. There is a concept called "radical honesty" that allows a couple to voice their deep concerns on thorny issues without the fear of being misjudged and misunderstood, which can trigger deeper intimacy, and help build your relationship. Here is a link:

The Policy Of Radical Honesty - Mariage Builders.

Also you might both benefit from some further reading.
There is a relationship book usually recommended around here called " His Needs / Her Needs." 
Maybe you can have a look at it.

Best wishes


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Glad I was able to help.
> 
> But I think you and your fiance might be able to solve this budding problem if both of you meet and discuss this amicably, meaning speak with each other and not to each other.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

OP, in addition to "His Needs / Her Needs, as mentioned by CM, you might want to take a look at this article on Radical Honesty:- The Policy of Radical Honesty


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> OP, in addition to "His Needs / Her Needs, as mentioned by CM, you might want to take a look at this article on Radical Honesty:- The Policy of Radical Honesty


lol,
Thanks.
While I was looking for the linl you posted it!

BTW,

Like the new Avatar!


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

If as a couple you both agree on a set of rule / guidelines / boundaries for your relationship then neither of you should attempt to bypass them without an open and honest discussion in advance.

What rules work will vary from couple to couple and even for those in a stable long term relationship they may have to change / be updated as time passes.

If the OP fells that her partner is trying to "move the goalposts" without consultation then she is right to be upset by that but IHMO she has little to fear from this fishing trip itself.


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## antechomai (Oct 4, 2013)

Not mentioned here is (it seems there is a stereotype) that guys ice fishing drink. Staying in a camper rather than driving home seems a wise idea.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Cheesehead86 said:


> My fiancé and I have always had ground rules that if we go out with friends, we always come home that night. Usually at a reasonably hour. Over the course of our 3 year relationship, we've made very little time for friends, but more time for our family, my two children, our careers, my schooling, we bought a house and many other wonderful "life courses" have taken up our time. We've gotten busy building our future. The other night, my Fiance randomly tells me that he is going out fishing, at night with a buddy. It struck me as odd, but I just brushed it off. Tonight when I asked him what time he was coming home, he informed me they were going to be sleeping out on the ice in a pop up camper. He has never stayed away from home, and never with a buddy. The buddy he is going out with is someone who he has mentioned in the past as someone he does not particularly care for because of his choices in life. Also, the same buddy text him one night encouraging him to come over because there were strippers over that wanted two D***s instead of one. Further, another buddy he was friends with in high school will most likely be joining, one of which he has also never talked to throughout our relationship and who he has never had anything good to say about him. Both of these men are people he has talked strongly against during our relationship because they make different choices then he and they don't have anything in common in life. I just don't get it and I just don't feel good about this. Any thoughts on this? I've tried talking to him about it but he says I'm being ridiculous. This just all seems so random..


Controlling my arse. It makes me so mad when people just throw the word controlling around

It is NOT controlling to tell your fiance that your not happy with something, or you do not like something that hes doing or wants to do. 

So every time that something happens like this to you or him, you have to stay quite, because it may be deemed as being controlling

I cant understand the way people think sometimes..... Anyway.

OP, I totally understand where you are coming from totally. Now this is not something new, you have both spoken about staying out before and you both have agreed and have ground rules that if you go out then you come back at reasonable hours, and you do not stay out the night, now this is something that you have both spoken about in the past and agreed on so its not some new rule to you both.

You say how you both have spent the years together as a family leaving not much time for friends, and you have both been quite happy with this. Now all of a sudden, your fiance has totally said something out the blue, that you find strange..... We do not know your fiance, so really who are we to say anything, but you do, so all of sudden your facing something that you have not had to consider before.... your Fiance now wants to go fishing with a buddy, something totally out of character for him..... Now

If my husband suddenly sat there, and said "by the way i am going on a fishing trip next.... etc etc etc".... Then I to would have alarm bells ringing, as all of a sudden there would be a change in routine for us, and i would question it..... and i would question it even more if it was staying out the whole night, something that my hubby has never ever done..... and to top it off somebody that he does not like......:scratchhead:...... strange..... even stranger two buddies, he cant stand.

The bit about the strippers would piss me off straight away, and that would have probably been the end of the whole situation there (Luckily my hubby gets nothing out of strip clubs etc).

At the end of the day i would not feel good about any of it...

A PP said that if they were him they would get out now, well i say if i was you, then i would be thinking would i want to marry someone that totally disregards my feelings.

Your not being ridiculous.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cheesehead86 said:


> My fiancé and I have always had ground rules that if we go out with friends, we always come home that night. Usually at a reasonably hour. Over the course of our 3 year relationship, we've made very little time for friends, but more time for our family, my two children, our careers, my schooling, we bought a house and many other wonderful "life courses" have taken up our time.


I didn't get any further than this. As someone married 35 years, I'm telling someone not even married yet that this stance is most likely not only unmanageable, but could be harmful to your relationship. It's great to say such a thing to each other when you're still in your 'lust' period (the first 2 to 5 years of a relationship when the PEA chemicals in your brain are giving you that 'high' of being in love and you can't imagine life being any other way). Ten years later, when you've settled into your marriage, it will be more important, barring any red flags, to trust your spouse to put you first but still encourage them to have fun with their family and friends, even if it's a weekend trip.

That said, if they're people you don't trust, that's another story. I'm just saying, don't say no every single time just because.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cheesehead86 said:


> Over the course of our 3 year relationship, we've made very little time for friends, but more time for our family, my two children, our careers, my schooling


Aside from them being losers, MY big red flag in this story is this. Neither of you should spend your whole married lives with only each other, you should both have outside friends you spend time with; it keeps the marriage healthy. Apart from whatever they have planned at the trip, my guess is your fiance is finally coming out of the PEA fog, after 3 years, and realizing he did give up his friendships and is now regretting that and wanting some of it back.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Errr no.
> 
> Boundaries define a relationship by determining what is allowed in it.


And boundaries should be reassessed from time to time, especially ones made in the heat of the beginning of a relationship like this one.

Specifically, though, if she already sees red flags, this particular trip needs to be discussed more.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

breeze said:


> As for the actual problem the OP is facing, a partner who without any hint of previous contact with a friend who he didn't like suddenly going on a 'fishing' trip that is overnight, sounds like a guy who has been listening to his 'friend' tell him he's 'under the thumb' and 'show her you can do whatever you want whenever you want', and 'come out and have a great night with me' stuff. I guess in your situation I would not bother talking about it anymore. That seems to be getting you no where. If he goes and more disrespectful and negative attitudes towards you continues with more frequent association with this 'friend', you have the answer you are currently asking. Is he going to put his friends before me from now on? Yes. Is he someone I want to marry in that case? For me, that would be a 'no'.


That's what I see, too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

norajane said:


> I'm confused. I thought you said you had rules about coming home every night. But you have no problem with him going on trips in the summer with other people. If that's the case, I can see why your fiance would not think it was a big deal to go on an overnight ice fishing trip.
> 
> As to the guys on the trip, maybe your fiance always wanted to try ice fishing and these are the guys who want to go. Or they decided to go and he thought it be fun to try.
> 
> What are you worried about? That he is not going ice fishing and is going for a night on the town to hook up with other women? That he is going ice fishing, but you're afraid these guys are toxic and will influence his thoughts while on this trip?


This, too. Apparently, he IS 'allowed' to go on overnight trips. Just not with guys you don't like.

OTOH, I get the same vibe, that you are concerned he's either lying or that you're afraid that his 'love' for you will be diminished merely by him listening to people rag on your relationship.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

norajane said:


> So how well did she express herself to him? When did he stop listening, get defensive and start fighting?


Probably when she raised her voice at him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cheesehead86 said:


> Yes and family is definitely an exception. Thank you Caribbean man and solidsnake. You both understand my position and seem to speak the same language. Appreciate the sound input and advice.


Oh, so you just came here to get ammunition to defend your stance?


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> If he does goes fishing he will find the note and be ever so loving to you, compliment you, and remember how much you love him. If he doesn't find the note, more than likely he didn't go fishing and I would begin to worry.


Isn't that straight out of Brokeback Mountain?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cheesehead86 said:


> My fiancé and I have always had ground rules that if we go out with friends, we always come home that night.


Except for the other trips he already goes on. Maybe you mean, anything else he wants to do that takes away from your time with him?

I get that he already takes a lot of time vacationing away from you. I just want you to slow down and really understand what it is you are wanting. You have a rule, but you already have exceptions; it's just that these exceptions are ones YOU approve of.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

melw74 said:


> You say how you both have spent the years together as a family leaving not much time for friends, and you have both been quite happy with this.


Cheese's fiance is not here so we do not KNOW that he has been 'quite happy' with this. Just sayin'.



melw74 said:


> Now all of a sudden, your fiance has totally said something out the blue


Again, he is not here. So we have no idea if he's been thinking about wanting to spend more time away and just hasn't said anything. Maybe a legitimate reason to get away (how many people invite you to go ice fishing, really?), so he jumped on it?


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

turnera said:


> This, too. Apparently, he IS 'allowed' to go on overnight trips. Just not with guys you don't like.
> 
> OTOH, I get the same vibe, that you are concerned he's either lying or that you're afraid that his 'love' for you will be diminished merely by him listening to people rag on your relationship.


I think you are contradicting yourself in your posts. On one hand you are saying that its not healthy that they don't spend a lot of time with friends, then when it is revealed that she, very generously, agrees to let him spend his entire 3 week vacation hunting with friends, rather than with her, you go on to criticise her for not wanting him to go with friends she doesn't like. You're talking about 2 separate things. The OP had no problem with him hunting for weeks on end with friends, she just doesn't like these friends who invited him on the fishing trip. What exactly is wrong with questioning a relationship with toxic friends?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

I've mentioned it before on this site, but I think it applies here...

About ten years ago, I met a guy at work with whom I thought I could have become very good friends. We had a lot of the same interests in sports, politics, playing snooker, etc. He was smart, funny, and definitely wanted to be buddies. He would have been a great addition to my little cadre of friends to have over to our place to watch hockey games and such.

Big problem: he ran around on his wife, even doing so while his she was pregnant. He liked to hang out in strip clubs and, in general, put himself out there to women.

While so many other things about him were a good match for us to become friends, this was something I couldn't respect, didn't want in my life, but (even more importantly) didn't want my wife feeling the slightest amount of anxiety about.

I kept my dealings with him limited to work, and we didn't become buddies. When he asked about hanging out, etc, I would make an excuse not to go.

---

In short, I don't blame OP for her not liking THIS trip with THESE friends.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SolidSnake said:


> I think you are contradicting yourself in your posts. On one hand you are saying that its not healthy that they don't spend a lot of time with friends, then when it is revealed that she, very generously, agrees to let him spend his entire 3 week vacation hunting with friends, rather than with her, you go on to criticise her for not wanting him to go with friends she doesn't like. You're talking about 2 separate things. The OP had no problem with him hunting for weeks on end with friends, she just doesn't like these friends who invited him on the fishing trip. What exactly is wrong with questioning a relationship with toxic friends?


Nothing wrong with questioning. Lots wrong with yelling at him about it.

And I seem to be contradicting myself because I'm trying to get Cheese to look at all angles of this, so she and he can make better choices.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

turnera said:


> Nothing wrong with questioning. Lots wrong with yelling at him about it.
> 
> And I seem to be contradicting myself because I'm trying to get Cheese to look at all angles of this, so she and he can make better choices.


Fine, fair enough. You usually give good advice.

Did the OP actually say she yelled at him? Because I missed that. I thought we were just asking her how her communication was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sh987 said:


> In short, I don't blame OP for her not liking THIS trip with THESE friends.


I don't either. Just for the way it was handled. What person is going to gleefully go along with her 'request' that he not go when he's getting yelled at for it?

That said, if he got defensive first and started the push back, he needs to look at his own behavior.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SolidSnake said:


> Did the OP actually say she yelled at him? Because I missed that. I thought we were just asking her how her communication was.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think she used the term she 'raised her voice.'


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sh987 said:


> Big problem: he ran around on his wife, even doing so while his she was pregnant. He liked to hang out in strip clubs and, in general, put himself out there to women.


I know lots of guys like this, who DH comes into contact with or works with. He tells me everything, so I get to hear all the gory details about just how much they go out behind their wives' backs. She has a right to be concerned. I just want her to learn how to resolve this in a smart way.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

turnera said:


> I don't either. Just for the way it was handled. *What person is going to gleefully go along with her 'request' that he not go when he's getting yelled at for it?*
> 
> That said, if he got defensive first and started the push back, he needs to look at his own behavior.


Agreed there as well. Making a reasonable request in an unreasonable manner isn't likely to work.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

turnera said:


> I think she used the term she 'raised her voice.'


Ok, I agree that negotiation broke down at that point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

sh987 said:


> I've mentioned it before on this site, but I think it applies here...
> 
> About ten years ago, I met a guy at work with whom I thought I could have become very good friends. We had a lot of the same interests in sports, politics, playing snooker, etc. He was smart, funny, and definitely wanted to be buddies. He would have been a great addition to my little cadre of friends to have over to our place to watch hockey games and such.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I'm like that too.

I don't hang around guys that beat their wives and who always trash talk their wives .
Neither do I hang around guys who openly run around on their wives. I view them as a threat to my marriage because if they don't respect other people's boundaries , they won't respect my marital boundary and there will be very serious consequences.

Funny thing is , when I was much younger I really didn't care because back then , I couldn't see.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cheesehead86 said:


> I told him, if a friend of mine ever called and said anything like that, or put me in that situation, I would never talk to them again. I only want people in my life and marriage that are respectful and have the same morals and values as me, my fiancé and marriage.


That's great that you feel that way and it's your belief system. It's a good one. But it's yours. I'm just saying to be careful not to assume - or expect - that he will already have the same belief or adapt to yours. It's disrespectful for you to expect him to.

Now, I'm not saying you should be ok with him going out on you, of course not. And I'm specifically not talking about these particular friends, who he's already said he didn't want to be best buds with (though who's to say ice fishing with them wouldn't be ok?). I'm talking about your marital expectations, for your partner to conform to YOUR belief system. What if he has a different way of seeing things, and wants YOU to conform to HIS? Would you? If not, why should he?

Again, not about this specific case, but more about how you handle stuff going forward. Try to be on the same team.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

turnera said:


> Cheese's fiance is not here so we do not KNOW that he has been 'quite happy' with this. Just sayin'.
> 
> Again, he is not here. So we have no idea if he's been thinking about wanting to spend more time away and just hasn't said anything. Maybe a legitimate reason to get away (how many people invite you to go ice fishing, really?), so he jumped on it?


I am only going by what the OP has said. This is the only way any of us can give advice, by going on what were told.

The op said that they BOTH have ground rules where they both have said that if they go out then they come home at a reasonable hour, and that they do not stay out... if this is what they have been doing over the last past three years then they must be happy doing this, Or why would they both discuss it, or set ground rules.

I hate fishing

I just feel if this is what they have both being doing all these years its a bit unfair to change the rules just because he wants to stay out.

And with people hes supposedly hates.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes, but who came up with those ground rules, and who just went along with them? We don't have that data. Lots of people make promises with their lovers because, well, they're in love.

All I'm saying is, 3 years in, this is a good time to start looking at the relationship more realistically, and learning more about each other, how they really feel, in case they ARE just going along to get along. 

The LB and EN questionnaires are great for this, as is reading HNHN together.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

turnera said:


> Yes, but who came up with those ground rules, and who just went along with them? We don't have that data. Lots of people make promises with their lovers because, well, they're in love.
> 
> All I'm saying is, 3 years in, this is a good time to start looking at the relationship more realistically, and learning more about each other, how they really feel, in case they ARE just going along to get along.
> 
> The LB and EN questionnaires are great for this, as is reading HNHN together.


Again like you, i do not know. I am going by what the OP states, and she has said that THEY have these ground rules, Meaning they both have made them, so i am taking her by her word, and that is all any of us can do, Is give advice on what were told.

Yes, your right we do make promises, and some of us like to stick by them, and some of us do not, but if hes changing them to suit himself then hes changing those ground rules they have both set, and if he has like op has stated, then i think its a bit selfish on his part.

They may have been together for 3 years, but in all fairness, they think they know each other well enough to get engaged to be married, so they must think they know each other quite well to make this step.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

From what the OP said, it sounds like he's been a model bf and fiance all the way through their relationship. So I think he deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt - he really may not have understood that summer hunting trips with his brother and other friends would be ok but ice fishing trip with other friends are not.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

norajane said:


> From what the OP said, it sounds like he's been a model bf and fiance all the way through their relationship. So I think he deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt - he really may not have understood that summer hunting trips with his brother and other friends would be ok but ice fishing trip with other friends are not.


But, do you not think its a bit weird that hes going with people hes stated he does not like. This is the part i find strange.

I mean, I would not even like to have to make idle chit chat with someone i did not like, let alone want to spend a whole night fishing with them.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

melw74 said:


> But, do you not think its a bit weird that hes going with people hes stated he does not like. This is the part i find strange.
> 
> I mean, I would not even like to have to make idle chit chat with someone i did not like, let alone want to spend a whole night fishing with them.


I dunno. My SO has friends from high school that he doesn't much care for, but he lives for scuba diving so will go on trips with them. 

I just feel it's better to start this kind of discussion by giving him the benefit of the doubt since he's never shown himself to be anything but an awesome partner until now. No point in assuming the worst immediately, because that will just make a person feel defensive and then you've lost the goodwill and "team spirit" that a marriage should have. 

"Hey babe, you've caught me off-guard with suddenly wanting to go ice fishing with these guys you don't hang out with. Help me understand what's what." That seems better than, "You can't go ice fishing with these loser assh*les, yadda yadda stripper texts, yadda yadda no jobs yadda yadda SSRI meds yadda yadda rules, etc."


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Maybe such an awesome partner would be sensitive enough to understand and respect his SO's boundary , and know that when two people agree on something , basic manners dictates that agreements be honored.
If he desired to change a boundary, the onus is on HIM to communicate with his partner and seek agreement on it.

She can't read his mind, especially when he was clearly sending mixed signals about those two friends whom he presumably 
*disliked.*

He's a grown MAN, she has two kids , he isn't one.
She is not his mother.

I think he has a lot to answer for.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

melw74 said:


> Yes, your right we do make promises, and some of us like to stick by them, and some of us do not, but if hes changing them to suit himself then hes changing those ground rules they have both set, and if he has like op has stated, then i think its a bit selfish on his part.


And, like I said, he may have made those promises to please her. We don't know. Three years is a LONG time to go without hanging out with your friends, especially if he used to do it a lot before meeting her, so it's possible that over time, he's not quite as happy to have made that promise. Now, saying that, he should man up and approach her, if that's the case, and not just drop this trip in her lap.

I'm not siding with him, I'm trying to get OP to see that it's a more complicated situation and has more ways to approach it, for the benefit of the relationship.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Maybe such an awesome partner would be sensitive enough to understand and respect his SO's boundary , and know that when two people agree on something , basic manners dictates that agreements be honored.
> 
> He's a grown MAN, she has two kids , he isn't one.
> She is not his mother.


You're assuming he understood the difference between "yes to hunting trips with brother and friends" but "no, to trips with these other guys."

We don't know what he understood about their agreement. The OP changed the rules in this very thread. First she said the rule was no overnights at all. Then she said she's fine with hunting trips with certain people. He could easily have been confused. So, again, a good guy should be given the benefit of the doubt as a starting point instead of being immediately hung out to dry.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

melw74 said:


> The op said that they BOTH have ground rules where they both have said that if they go out then they come home at a reasonable hour, and that they do not stay out... if this is what they have been doing over the last past three years then they must be happy doing this, Or why would they both discuss it, or set ground rules.


Looking at all the OPs posts on this, I don't think it is clear that this ground rule applies to the type of trip he is suggesting. I read this "rule" to apply to going out with friends for an evening. They both agree to come back at a reasonable time and not stay out late or overnight with someone. This sounds like a rule for when one goes out to a bar or restaurant with friends.

But that is not what the fiance is asking about. He is talking about a specific over night trip. One where he has specifically told her ahead of time that he won't be home. To him, that is not much different than the hunting trip.

Now maybe she did not intend that, but I don't think it is automatically unreasonable that he interpreted it differently or that he has unilaterally changed the agreement.

That being said, she should ask about the apparent change of heart on these "friends" including how long he has been talking to them. Clarity on what he is thinking will go a long way to understanding the real issues.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

norajane said:


> You're assuming he understood the difference between "yes to hunting trips with brother and friends" but "no, to trips with these other guys."



I'm assuming he's an adult with a career who fully understands the concept of personal and collective responsibility in areas such as corporate and personal relationships.

Just like every company has an unwritten _culture_ that if ignored could jeopardize your career ambitions,
Every relationship has a_ culture_ that if ignored could jeopardize your relationship and future ambitions.

But I suspect we both already know that.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I'm assuming he's an adult with a career who fully understands the concept of personal and collective responsibility in areas such as corporate and personal relationships.
> 
> Just like every company has an unwritten _culture_ that if ignored could jeopardize your career ambitions,
> Every relationship has a_ culture_ that if ignored could jeopardize your relationship and future ambitions.
> ...


It's not like they've been married 20 years. They're just getting started so I doubt that everything is crystal clear and understood between them, especially things that haven't come up before or seem like they have come up before but are somehow now different.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

norajane said:


> It's not like they've been married 20 years. They're just getting started so I doubt that everything is crystal clear and understood between them, especially things that haven't come up before or seem like they have come up before but are somehow now different.


That's why honesty is _always_ the best policy, whether you're married 20yrs or just engaged for 2yrs.

At least she was honest with him.
He wasn't fully honest or he deliberately withheld information from her.
Which is causing the present confusion.
Not the age of the relationship.

It's quite obvious to me that he's been communicating with those two friends all the time whilst pretending to dislike them in front of his wife.
That's what's causing the confusion.
That's why things aren't " crystal clear."


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why honesty is _always_ the best policy, whether you're married 20yrs or just engaged for 2yrs.
> 
> At least she was honest with him.
> He wasn't fully honest or he deliberately withheld information from her.
> ...


She said this friend has been calling him and texting him a lot, and she knows about the stripper text, so I'm less convinced than you that she doesn't know her fiance has communicated with him. 

I don't think it's obvious AT ALL that her fiance lied in any way.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

turnera said:


> And, like I said, he may have made those promises to please her. We don't know. Three years is a LONG time to go without hanging out with your friends, especially if he used to do it a lot before meeting her, so it's possible that over time, he's not quite as happy to have made that promise. Now, saying that, he should man up and approach her, if that's the case, and not just drop this trip in her lap.
> 
> I'm not siding with him, I'm trying to get OP to see that it's a more complicated situation and has more ways to approach it, for the benefit of the relationship.


Yes he may of, then maybe he should have been honest in the first place with her, and then there would be no problem here in the first place.

Yes it is a long time to be without his mates, but before i met my husband, he was a postman, and he used to spend every single afternoon drinking in the pub with his friends, then in the evening he would go home get dressed, and then go back out.

He met me, we settled down, and i cant remember the last time he went out with his mates. Hes not a postman anymore, he no longer sees these friends, and now we have a different set of friends, his friends are mine. (We have the same group of friends).

This has been the same now since we have been together and that is 10 years.

Life is pretty much the same thing, if you know what i mean, so if my hubby said all of a sudden he wanted to go night fishing out the blue, it would sent alarm bells ringing for me, Is all i am saying.

When you settle down, things do change, and for some they do have boundaries, ground rules etc...... That is how it is for us, but of course its not the same for everyone.

I agree with you tho, he does need to speak up, and tell her, Its only fair on her....

I know your not siding with him. I think they need to talk about things.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

melw74 said:


> Yes he may of, then maybe he should have been honest in the first place with her, and then there would be no problem here in the first place.


Yes, and if every person had that level of fortitude and integrity, instead of being just human, we'd have no needs for forums like this.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

norajane said:


> She said this friend has been calling him and texting him a lot, and she knows about the stripper text, so I'm less convinced than you that she doesn't know her fiance has communicated with him.
> 
> I don't think it's obvious AT ALL that her fiance lied in any way.


Ok

let me make it a little more clearer.

He deliberately pretended that he didn't like them whilst being friends with them.

Who deliberately goes out of their way to spend an entire night with people they dislike,whether its ice fishing or dancing in a club?
And why his sudden change of heart?

A relationship cannot thrive when there's dishonesty on any level.


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## WayUpNorth (Dec 14, 2013)

Hopefully he comes home with a mess of fish. When she asks him about the trip he says 'the fishing was good, but those guys are complete D bags. Next time I will go with better friends.'


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

WayUpNorth said:


> Hopefully he comes home with a mess of fish. When she asks him about the trip he says '*the fishing was good, but those guys are complete D bags. Next time I will go with better friends.'*


:iagree:

Lol,
* hopefully*

But it doesn't look too possible at all.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

One needs to listen to the hairs on back of neck when they are raised...the little whisper in one's head that says something isn't right.

Your initial instinct is usually right.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

turnera said:


> I know lots of guys like this, who DH comes into contact with or works with. *He tells me everything, so I get to hear all the gory details about just how much they go out behind their wives' backs.* She has a right to be concerned. I just want her to learn how to resolve this in a smart way.


And I'll bet you're glad that he tells you about them and that he doesn't associate with them anymore than is required by work. Good move on his part.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I'm like that too.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I see the dangers of having friends like that as:
-They could eventually try to make the moves on your own wife. Yes, she should rebuff such things, but why put her in the sights of somebody like that in the first place?
-Your wife, knowing that this friend is a big cheat, could begin to worry about your own morality. "Why would he choose to hang out with somebody like that? Would my husband ever consider doing those things?"
-You're almost assuredly going to be placed in a situation where you'll asked to lie for your friend, to back up stories to explain away cheating. Ugh.

I'm sure there's more that aren't really springing to mind right now, but you get the idea. I know you've already thought of them, considering you don't have people like that in your life anymore.

The term wasn't in my vernacular at the time, but now I'd say that I didn't want a toxic friend in my life. Such a person would NOT be a friend to my marriage. At the time, I just expressed it by way of examples of why I didn't want to hang out with him.



> Funny thing is , when I was much younger I really didn't care because back then , I couldn't see.


The benefit of experience and increased wisdom, eh?


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Exactly what I had pointed out.

The OP is being paranoid about these 'toxic' friends. The boundaries set 3 years ago have already been broken due to previous nights away; therefore, they shouldn't even be mentioned. 

The new boundary set by the OP only is: you cannot spend the night away WITH people I DON'T like. How that is not controlling is beyond me. This guy has never given her doubt about who he is. He cannot control what his buddies text him and hopefully he told his buddy to knock it off after those text messages. 

I'm sorry but picking and choosing who your SO can hang around with IS controlling. She has this image in her head that women might appear and her SO will somehow end up inside of one. In an honest relationship, if women WERE to show, he would get up and leave, tell you about it, and never hang out with these guys again. It's that simple. If he was not to do any of that, then you have more problems than you think. 

Like I said, your SO feels belittled, not trusted, controlled and what not. He will resent you for this and it will blossom into the marriage. He will pick and chose your friends too and right now that might be fine but later on.. it will be miserable. Some spouses allow this to happen and that's great for them; however, yours IS NOT going to allow this.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

Fishing trip np, but if a friend invites him also to stripper sex, seriously? What kind of guy is that, and if my BF would go with that 'friend', he cannot come back home. Wow, this is nasty


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok
> 
> let me make it a little more clearer.
> 
> ...


CM,

You know that there are a lot of legitimate explanations for all of the above other than outright dishonesty. I'm confused why you are constantly going out of your way to paint the husband in the worst light possible. It's true, the husband could be a dishonest scumbag for all we know. But since the OP doesn't describe him that way, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here. 

My gut tells me that neither of them are being dishonest or outright unreasonable, they just need to discuss the issue and and find out what their boundaries really are, because it's obvious their previous understanding has modified over time and now they are not on the same page. That's all. There doesn't have to be a "good guy" and a "bad guy" here.


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## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

wise said:


> Exactly what I had pointed out.
> 
> The OP is being paranoid about these 'toxic' friends. The boundaries set 3 years ago have already been broken due to previous nights away; therefore, they shouldn't even be mentioned.
> 
> ...


Not that this specifically applies to the OP, but let me just say that in my case the roles were reversed. My husband wasn't crazy about some of my weirder male friends early in our relationship, and he let me know about it. I never viewed his dislike or his boundaries as controlling, and I rarely talk to those people now. They alienated my husband through their own actions, and my partners feelings are way more important to me than a casual friendship. I respect my husbands feelings on objectionable friends. I especially don't see it as a gender issue or a control issue way you seem to. Not that you or the OP should do it my way, but this is my personal perspective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> He deliberately pretended that he didn't like them whilst being friends with them.


Possibly. He's not here so we don't know. 

Or, the thought of ice fishing, him being an outdoorsy guy, sounded really appealing after 3 years of spending nearly all his time with OP, and he can tolerate just about anyone for the chance to go do it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

wise said:


> Exactly what I had pointed out.
> 
> The OP is being paranoid about these 'toxic' friends. The boundaries set 3 years ago have already been broken due to previous nights away; therefore, they shouldn't even be mentioned.
> 
> ...


I strongly disagree.

The OP clearly said in post # 32 that they had both agreed it was ok to hang out late or spend the night with the friend and family before .

So no boundary was either broken or arbituairly removed.
They both discussed it and agreed.

With that " ice fishing" outing ,she NEVER agreed .

If two persons agree to a boundary and when one party wants it removed and the other disagrees, only to be called controlling,
Then what's the purpose of boundaries anyway?

The main reason two people agree on anything including a boundary is so that either of them can have a veto power.
Having a veto power is what keeps the boundary intact and makes it effective.
Having no veto power or one party blatantly disregarding the boundary means that the boundary is open and thus the marriage or relationship is also open.

Again, the partner who is trying to stick to the agreed boundary cannot be labeled as the controlling, rather , the one who's breaking the boundary , and in the process, forcing the other partner to accept his actions outside of the agreed boundary,
Is obviously the controlling one.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> CM said:
> 
> Again, the partner who is trying to stick to the agreed boundary cannot be labeled as the controlling, rather , the one who's breaking the boundary , and in the process, forcing the other partner to accept his actions outside of the agreed boundary,
> Is obviously the controlling one.


:iagree:

The OP has told us quite clearly that she doesn't have a problem with her fiancee going on hunting trips with family and friends. However, quite understandably, she _does_ have a problem with him going on a trip with someone who sits at home smoking weed all day and another who encourages him to come over and be an extra "d!ck" at his private strip party...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Theseus said:


> CM,
> 
> You know that there are a lot of legitimate explanations for all of the above other than outright dishonesty.
> 
> ...


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Let him go, but keep your eyes and ears open. Think of it this way: *if you can't trust this guy to go on a fishing trip with his friends, then why are you still with him in the first place?*


I quit reading at this point because Theseus, as always, has hit the nail squarely on the head!

You're not objecting to the overnight..there is NO SUCH BOUNDARY! You admitted he goes out overnight hunting/fishing 2-3 weeks a year! So that is not exactly accurate. Did you mean your boundary is that neither of you goes out with friends for the evening that TURNS INTO an all-nighter? If *that* is your boundary, this ice fishing trip does NOT cross that boundary. It was never an "evening out" that ended up a drunken all-nighter. It is planned as an overnight trip from the start.

You're objecting to his friends. You say he doesn't like/respect them. You say he has outgrown them and you say he feels as you do about them. AND YET here he is wanting to go on an overnight ice fishing trip with them. SO...


either ice fishing has an allure that you have not known about (you've only known him 3 years....not to be insulting just saying it's not like you've known him 25 years and he's never before expressed an interesting in ice fishing!) OR

getting together with these old friends has an allure that you don't get

Considering what an outdoorsman your fiancé is, I would guess that, as one poster stated, he's interested in trying ice-fishing and *these* are the guys who have presented the opportunity for him to try it.

If hanging out with them for one evening, drinking and ice fishing is enough to compromise his core values and beliefs...get him to 'see the light' about dope-smoking, strippers, cheating, whatever, then you should consider this trip a BOON that you will have discovered what a spineless sheep your fiancé is that one overnight trip will make him an entirely different person!


I would advise you to let him go if he has NEVER given you any reason to suspect that he is cheating, has cheated, or considers cheating in others 'no big deal'.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> I'm also very confused why you are going out of your way to attack the OP when she clearly stated that she has a problem with her fiancee's behavior.




I haven't "attacked" the OP. What are you talking about?



> _It doesn't matter that Thesesus doesn't have a problem with her fiance's behavior, the central issue is that the OP has a problem with his behavior , and that is what counts.
> I don't see why you are attempting to shift the boundary in another person's relationship to reflect your projection of where these boundary should lie._


The OP asked us for opinions. My opinion is that their original boundary was unrealistic. And I've been proven right, since they have modified it over time to include family, hunting trips, etc. Now the OP's partner either thinks the boundary either doesn't stand anymore or it doesn't apply in this case. There's nothing criminal about that. 



> _They have both agreed on those boundaries, and Thesesus or anybody has any right to tell them to change it. It doesn't matter how old those boundaries are. When they are BOTH ready, they are quite capable or reevaluating their boundaries._


Yes exactly!! And that's exactly what they are doing now!! They just need a better strategy for discussing it. Poisoning the well by accusing one of them of dishonesty isn't going to help them do that. 



> _Blaming her for standing her ground and upholding a boundary that both she and her fiancee agreed to before, and he clearly broke is in itself ,irresponsible . _


The OP already admitted they had modified their boundary over time. So her fiancee most likely thinks he hasn't broken anything. This isn't a court of law, where they can refer to the boundary as written and get an exact answer. I don't understand why you don't get that. 



> _And telling her to accept responsibility for her fiancee's wrongdoing is blame-shifting and a textbook recipie for emotional abuse. You are actively telling a woman to accept abusive behavior from her fiancee or he would become more resentful/abusive._


Now you are wildly exaggerating the issue and trying to pour gasoline on the fire. That's not helpful. I am starting to wonder if you are even reading the same thread as the rest of us.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Theseus,

*1]*The OP asked for opinions on a specific issue

*2]*The OP NEVER asked for our opinion on whether their original boundaries were realistic.

*3]*That both she and her fiancee AGREED to alter their original boundaries is not an indication that it was "unrealistic". It is an indication the she was flexible enough to accommodate her fiancee's wishes once they are reasonable.

*4]*Holding someone responsible for their action isn't " poisoning the well." Refusing to hold someone responsible for their actions in a relationship is called " RUG SWEEPING."

*5]*It is insidious to assume that the fiancee genuinely thinks that he hasn't broken any boundary given that a heated argument occurred as a result of his actions. At least he could have considered her feelings on the issue, which clearly, he didn't.


Look at the thread again carefully.Read post by post. Very few actually support _your_ version of what went down and who should accept responsibility.

Clearly, the numbers speak for themselves.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Again, the partner who is trying to stick to the agreed boundary cannot be labeled as the controlling, rather , the one who's breaking the boundary , and in the process, forcing the other partner to accept his actions outside of the agreed boundary,
> Is obviously the controlling one.


I don't think it is clear at all that the OPs partner is changing the agreed upon boundaries. Looking back her posts, that boundary sure sounds like one involving heading out with friends to a bar or the game. So with that, they agreed to not stay out to all hours and to come home (not sleep over). That is different than not allowing him to stay over night some where with our her (something he has in fact done a number of time).

Sure, she needs to talk to him about these friends and his apparent change in attitude about them. And she should ask for clarification of his understanding of their agreement. But I don't it is crystal clear that he is breaking an agreement that they had.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

This thread reminds me of another similar one currently in the Men's Clubhouse where a guy's complaining that his wife left him because he had a * _wild_ * bachelor party years ago before they were married and she didn't approve of it neither before, neither was she prepared to accept his reverse rationalization of it, years after.

But he went on anyway and hid the truth , aided and abetted by his father and other family members ,from her.
When the truth came to her via a third party, she blew him up over it and he _g-e-n-u-i-n-e-l-y_ couldn't see what all the fuss was about , and tried to gaslight her.
_He told her it was a family tradition , and figured if she didn't know , it wouldn't hurt her._

Well she rightfully packed her stuff and left.
Now_ that's_ a strong woman

He got some good old TAM 2x4 all across his head on that thread.
lol,
They fixed him _good._:rofl:


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Theseus,
> 
> *1]*The OP asked for opinions on a specific issue
> 
> *2]*The OP NEVER asked for our opinion on whether their original boundaries were realistic.


That's ridiculous. Her exact words were "Any thoughts on this?" So she got our thoughts on this. 

She also didn't specifically ask for a lot of things, such as if her fiancee was being dishonest. But you accused him of that anyway. You aren't the only one who is allowed to place comments here. 



> _*4]*Holding someone responsible for their action isn't " poisoning the well." _


I didn't say that it was. Your accusing him of bad faith and calling him dishonest was poisoning the well. 



> _Refusing to hold someone responsible for their actions in a relationship is called " RUG SWEEPING."_


What should he be held responsible for?? He should be punished for going ice fishing with his friends? Or for just disagreeing over what the boundaries are? Plus he hadn't even gone on the trip yet!

BTW, maybe you missed it, but the OP already admitted that what bothered her was his friends going with him, not the trip itself. 



> _*5]*It is insidious to assume that the fiancee genuinely thinks that he hasn't broken any boundary given that a heated argument occurred as a result of his actions. At least he could have considered her feelings on the issue, which clearly, he didn't._


Calling that "insidious" means that you aren't just assuming bad faith on his part, but on ours as well. Nice. And guess what? Reasonable people sometimes have very heated arguments too. 



> _Look at the thread again carefully.Read post by post. Very few actually support your version of what went down and who should accept responsibility.
> 
> Clearly, the numbers speak for themselves._


Certainly doesn't look that way to me. At least almost no one else in this thread sees this issue as black and white as you do. But I guess it's useless to argue with you further, since you have already decided you know this guy.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Certainly doesn't look that way to me. At least almost no one else in this thread sees this issue as black and white as you do.



...and you forgot the OP also does, that's why she's confused.
It's a black & white issue according to her words because;

1] " _The buddy he is going out with is someone who *he has mentioned in the past as someone he does not particularly care for because of his choices in life...*_"

2]" _Also, the same buddy text him one night encouraging him to come over because there were strippers over that wanted two D***s instead of one. .._"

3]" _Further, another buddy he was friends with in high school will most likely be joining, *one of which he has also never talked to throughout our relationship and who he has never had anything good to say about him..*_." 


4]" *Both of these men are people he has talked strongly against during our relationship because they make different choices then he and they don't have anything in common in life...*"




Looks pretty black & white to me.
I don't think many people ,and women in particular are particularly fond of men whom deceive them, who they cannot trust to speak the truth. Especially men who suddenly can't give a straightforward answer.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> The OP already admitted they had modified their boundary over time. So her fiancee most likely thinks he hasn't broken anything. This isn't a court of law, where they can refer to the boundary as written and get an exact answer. I don't understand why you don't get that.


I didn't get the impression that the original boundary was modified to include hunting trips with family and friends. I assumed that this was_ part of the original boundary_. ie - No overnighters, save and except for...


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## bobbieb65 (Jan 24, 2013)

@Cheesehead86, Go on the trip with him!!! It's out of character for him to take an overnight trip with these "friends" and it would be out of character for you to go, so balance it out and go!!! :smthumbup: 

One of two things will happen: 1. you go and see what it is...fishing with idiots on ice, or B. suddenly the trip gets cancelled for some reason:scratchhead: 

If it is truly just an innocent trip with guys he doesn't like, then maybe by bringing you along they won't bother calling and inviting him out anymore...win, win.

I don't think you are being controlling, it is indeed a boundary and respect issue that needs to be resolved b4 marriage. It's very simple: you expect to be treated the same way you treat him...if this means no over night outings with "friends" or hanging around with people of low moral character that can be damaging to the relationship, so be it. 

Remember that the door swings both ways so in the future when one of your friends gets D or becomes single again you won't be going to bars or clubs with her


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

bobbieb65 said:


> @Cheesehead86, *Go on the trip with him!!! It's out of character for him to take an overnight trip with these "friends" and it would be out of character for you to go, so balance it out and go!!! :smthumbup:
> 
> One of two things will happen: 1. you go and see what it is...fishing with idiots on ice, or B. suddenly the trip gets cancelled for some reason:scratchhead:
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Love it.
Absolutely!


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Going with that idea, there's currently a Living Social deal available near me for a "Ice Fishing for 2" deal. Maybe something similiar is available near you, OP.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Cheesehead, next time, if you really want to find out if he is doing what he says he is, and don't mind risking that he might do something else, then give him your blessing and let him go.

Then around, say 10pm that night text him just to see if he has his phone around. If he texts back, then obviously he does.

Then ask him to take a picture of his buddy in front of this ice tent.

If he doesn't, well then you'll know.

As far as the trip he already went on, do you know his buddy? Ask your husband some questions that won't raise suspicion like, "how many fish did you catch" or, "what lake did you fish at?"

Then ask his friend. See if the stories match


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Although your way would work, vellocet, I'd point out that it seems like an awful lot of work.

You either trust this guy OR you don't.

If you do, then keep trusting him and let the trip go...he's a grown man!
If you don't, then it's time to call it quits on a relationship where you're not even married and you have to 'spy'. Not healthy.


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