# Wife traveling for work, wants to have another kid?



## Bubbagumps

Hello, 
I have a wife that I have been married to for over 4 years. We have a son that is 2. No problems at all until recently. 
I recently found out she is going to be traveling for 2 weeks this month. 1 trip internationally, the other is not. Both are 5-7 days each. 

Here is my problem. I hate it when she travels. I had a dad that traveled to this day gone M-F every week. I always told my wife I would not travel, and expected very little from her too. I have not broken that promise. 

I do get very anxious when she travels. Its wierd, but I have always been very transparent about travel. 

She will be gone most of the month this month. One was for work, the other was for work, but its a conferance***(not required)

She wants another child, (right now) but we are not on the same page because she wants to continue to travel. 
There is more to why I hate her traveling (stresses us both out, time zone differances, ect) I have a full time job, both make the same money. 

The most frustrating part of this is that both trips, she gave me no notice, when she knew about them 2 months before hand. One of the trips she just told me about 2 days ago and she is leaving next week. Her not telling me really grinded my gears.

To me if you want to have another child, you have to be present. 

She has not been acting like herself, she said she "would not let anyone control her" I am annoyed and disappointed that she is traveling for the conferance, as it is a party for 3 nights with a concert. 
I have no idea if any of this makes sense. 
The only thing we fight about is when she "has" to travel internationally. The last time she traveled Internationale she had a miscarrige before she left for Moscow for 7 days. 

I know I might seem like a total jerk, but I just want to remove the travel, its the biggest problem other than my insecurity.

I am at a total loss of what to do. I feel trapped and like the marriage is falling apart for no real reason.


----------



## PBear

How often does she travel like this? One month of the year? Every month? 

The "controlling" tag is handled by not telling her what to do, but by telling her what your boundaries are. You can't stop her from travelling, but you can say that you won't be a single dad to two kids. So no kid until this is worked out. 

Of course, the bigger issue is her black of respect for you, so she'll just lie and tell you she won't travel, only to hop on a plane when she wants to... 

C


----------



## toonaive

" "would not let anyone control her" I have heard these words before. Do not have another child with her. Unfortunately she sounds very uncompromising in her position. Are you willing to divorce her if she is not willing to change? If so, I think that is where you are headed. The last time I heard my almost XW say that, she was in the heat of an affair. Makes it pretty convenient traveling, especially overseas.


----------



## CincyBluesFan

People who say things like "would not let anyone control her" are not long-term marriage material. That is another phrase meaning they're selfish. A marriage is a true union of two people. You're no longer a "you" and "she." You're a "we" and that's a beautiful thing. Or at least it can be if both partners realize and respect what marriage is.


----------



## yeah_right

Please read this thread which is a bit similar -

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/252617-job-family.html

It's very important that both of you communicate very openly NOW, before you have any more children. There may need to be some compromise on both sides, but talk now.


----------



## Yeswecan

Not telling you until very close to the trip indicates to me your W knew this travel would cause issues. She really wants to go and will tell you she does not want to be controlled. 

A marriage is hard to sustain when one is away on a consistent basis. 

At this point the only thing you can do is advise your discontent with the travel for weeks on end. If a time comes were you do not wish to continue living in such a manner it will be of no surprise to your W. Do not have any more children until agreement about travel is made.


----------



## meson

Unless your wife is traveling as much as your dad it's unfair to compare the two. You haven't mentioned how much travel there really is. Travel for work is normal for many jobs. My wife travels for work 1-3 times per year and most of the time it's international travel. She did this when we had babies and continues to do it. It is her career. For me to tell her not to travel is equivalent to telling her get a new job or career. Her career is something of her identity and to ask her to change may be effectively taking a part of her away. Your wife may very well view this as controlling. In my field conferences are important and a source of training for things in my field. Perhaps it's that way with your wife's. 

Her not telling you about the travel until right before the trip is disrespectful and causes other problems potentially with your work. She shouldn't do this. But I suspect that you've had this discussion before and she wants to avoid the conflict of debate being rehashed. 

However I haven't heard you state why she wants to travel andmifmits really needed. Also I haven't heard you state why you don't want her to travel. What you have described with your dad doesn't seem applicable unless she is traveling close to full time. I think the issue is one of communication. The both need to understand the others point of view and the motivating reasons. Once that is done you can work to find a solution that maximizes the benefit to both and minimizes the pain to both.


----------



## GusPolinski

Act II

Scene I

<Enter OM>


----------



## Happilymarried25

She doesn't respect you. Is she bossy at home? Was she traveling for work when you were dating and before you got married? That would have been a good time so talk about how you don't want her to travel. Don't have another child with her untill she agrees to limit her traveling. She shouldn't be away from your son so much, especially while is so young. She wants to be a career women a wife and a Mom but it's hard be all three usually something has to give.


----------



## lonelyhusband321

The use of the term "controlling" sure rings a bell for me.

I can't speak for everyone, but for SOME, it means "screw you - I'm going to do what I want, and I don't care if you like it or not".

It doesn't sound good, OP.

Just my thought, but you should just have an open, frank and honest talk about this - and in a firm "I'm just not happy" way. Not making demands, but speaking your mind and giving choices. 

If she CHOOSES to do as she sees fit and walk all over you, then you're a doormat to her.

You don't want to be a doormat, do you? 

I didn't think so....


----------



## lonelyhusband321

CincyBluesFan said:


> People who say things like "would not let anyone control her" are not long-term marriage material. That is another phrase meaning they're selfish. A marriage is a true union of two people. You're no longer a "you" and "she." You're a "we" and that's a beautiful thing. Or at least it can be if both partners realize and respect what marriage is.


:iagree:

This is spot on...


----------



## Cooper

"would not let anyone control her"

WOW, to me the very act of having kids ends up taking a good part of "control" away from your life, and a parent should understand that and be willing to give what is needed.

I would be very careful my friend, she may just go ahead and get herself pregnant wither you are on board or not, happened to me.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

GusPolinski said:


> Act II
> 
> Scene I
> 
> <Enter OM>


I'm afraid to say it but you are correct, the not being controlled was one thing thrown at me during her affair, OP ask her who she intends to father her child someone there that she is desperate to be with or you? as telling you this close to the trip date is somewhat iffy and leaves you as the doormat


----------



## tom67

D.H Mosquito said:


> I'm afraid to say it but you are correct, the not being controlled was one thing thrown at me during her affair, OP ask her who she intends to father her child someone there that she is desperate to be with or you? as telling you this close to the trip date is somewhat iffy and leaves you as the doormat


:iagree:
Go see a few lawyers because some states still sadly make you automatically the father when married.
I am not saying she is cheating...yet.
Knowledge is power.
She may jump your bones when she comes back and then all of a sudden say she's pregnant.


----------



## convert

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> Go see a few lawyers because some states still sadly make you automatically the father when married.
> I am not saying she is cheating...yet.
> Knowledge is power.
> She may jump your bones when she comes back and *then all of a sudden say she's pregnant.*


yep my thoughts too
especially since she wants to have another kid


----------



## tom67

convert said:


> yep my thoughts too
> especially since she wants to have another kid


As a male he is already behind the eight ball.
And using the "controlling" word reminds me of frankman's exwife.
Obviously I hope this isn't the case.


----------



## tom67

She has not been acting like herself, she said she "would not let anyone control her" I am annoyed and disappointed that she is traveling for the conferance, as it is a party for 3 nights with a concert.
I have no idea if any of this makes sense.
The only thing we fight about is when she "has" to travel internationally. The last time she traveled Internationale she had a miscarrige before she left for Moscow for 7 days.

This^^^^ is a concern.
PI mode.
VAR in her car check phone records.
Access to her email accts.


----------



## Marduk

Been there, done that.

Assuming there's no other man and she has no intention of there being one...

She's searching. The work, the travel to party, the wanting another kid... all symptoms of that. For what, you need to sort out. And she needs a clue stick. Not in the form of control or you being pissy -- in the form of you naturally leading her to the conclusion that she needs to pick between a reasonable amount of travel and have a reasonable family life, or lots of travel and no family life, or what.

For my wife, I got the whole "you can't control me, I'm going out/away with my GF" line, too. Any attempt to have a reasonable or unreasonable conversation about it failed miserably and just gave her the "he's a control freak" and "he's insecure" cards to play.

So don't give them to her. How?

Simple. Two ways.

Way #1: "wife, you get to decide. Another kid or travel. I'm good with X times a year for X days in duration. If you can't commit to that what you are really asking me to do is raise your kids for you while you go and play. Pick."

Way #2: Mirror her behaviour. Wife didn't get what the problem with her going out all the time was... until I did it. And she didn't get what her going away for girl's trips was doing to our marriage until I started doing that, too.

I'm not talking about manipulation. Have the conversations first, in as loving and compassionate and clear ways first.


----------



## toonaive

Im still going to advise NOT having ANY more children with this woman is risky at best. No guarantee, after another child, she wont go back to traveling, and leave OP taking care of everything while she is on "vacation"


----------



## Yeswecan

toonaive said:


> and leave OP taking care of everything while she is on "vacation"


And you know what, I have traveled for work and truth be told....it is a vacation of sorts.


----------



## Bubbagumps

PBear said:


> How often does she travel like this? One month of the year? Every month?
> 
> The "controlling" tag is handled by not telling her what to do, but by telling her what your boundaries are. You can't stop her from travelling, but you can say that you won't be a single dad to two kids. So no kid until this is worked out.
> 
> Of course, the bigger issue is her black of respect for you, so she'll just lie and tell you she won't travel, only to hop on a plane when she wants to...
> 
> C


That is what I am afraid of. To make matters worse I found out its really a big booze fest, concert/party 2 of the nights. adobe summit 2014 party Hashtag Search - adobesummit2014 | Seen


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> She has not been acting like herself, she said she "would not let anyone control her" I am annoyed and disappointed that she is traveling for the conferance, as it is a party for 3 nights with a concert.
> I have no idea if any of this makes sense.
> The only thing we fight about is when she "has" to travel internationally. The last time she traveled Internationale she had a miscarrige before she left for Moscow for 7 days.
> 
> This^^^^ is a concern.
> PI mode.
> VAR in her car check phone records.
> Access to her email accts.


I have no idea what those acronymes mean. Kind of worried(gross understatement). Thank you everyone.
We are going to a counsiler, the 1st session I was a punching bag for things that were real old. 
She did not give me an intake form, she filled on out for her, but did not give me one. I read the form and said I drink 70 drinks per week..... thats news to me. The second session is tommorrow.


----------



## Omar174

Bubbagumps said:


> Hello,
> I have a wife that I have been married to for over 4 years. We have a son that is 2. No problems at all until recently.
> I recently found out she is going to be traveling for 2 weeks this month. 1 trip internationally, the other is not. Both are 5-7 days each.
> 
> Here is my problem. I hate it when she travels. I had a dad that traveled to this day gone M-F every week. I always told my wife I would not travel, and expected very little from her too. I have not broken that promise.
> 
> I do get very anxious when she travels. Its wierd, but I have always been very transparent about travel.
> 
> She will be gone most of the month this month. One was for work, the other was for work, but its a conferance***(not required)
> 
> She wants another child, (right now) but we are not on the same page because she wants to continue to travel.
> There is more to why I hate her traveling (stresses us both out, time zone differances, ect) I have a full time job, both make the same money.
> 
> The most frustrating part of this is that both trips, she gave me no notice, when she knew about them 2 months before hand. One of the trips she just told me about 2 days ago and she is leaving next week. Her not telling me really grinded my gears.
> 
> To me if you want to have another child, you have to be present.
> 
> She has not been acting like herself, she said she "would not let anyone control her" I am annoyed and disappointed that she is traveling for the conferance, as it is a party for 3 nights with a concert.
> I have no idea if any of this makes sense.
> The only thing we fight about is when she "has" to travel internationally. The last time she traveled Internationale she had a miscarrige before she left for Moscow for 7 days.
> 
> I know I might seem like a total jerk, but I just want to remove the travel, its the biggest problem other than my insecurity.
> 
> I am at a total loss of what to do. I feel trapped and like the *marriage is falling apart for no real reason*.


What are you so worried about? :scratchhead:

If it's work related and it doesn't happen too often, the only problem is that you are wound up about it.

Get a grip dude.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> I have no idea what those acronymes mean. Kind of worried(gross understatement). Thank you everyone.
> We are going to a counsiler, the 1st session I was a punching bag for things that were real old.
> She did not give me an intake form, she filled on out for her, but did not give me one. I read the form and said I drink 70 drinks per week..... thats news to me. The second session is tommorrow.


Sorry VAR is voice activated recorder.
She is rewriting history of the marriage which is another red flag.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Sorry VAR is voice activated recorder.
> She is rewriting history of the marriage which is another red flag.


Ok, thank you. I am worried... very very worried. Hashtag Search - adobesummit2014 | Seen


----------



## Bubbagumps

Ok, I am very worried and have no idea how to explain my side to the consiler.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> Ok, I am very worried and have no idea how to explain my side to the consiler.


Just lay it out there do not shout but be firm and if this is another bash fest just get up and leave.
Write an outline of what you want to talk about stop walking on eggshells.
Is the therapist giving you a chance to talk?


----------



## jojo717

my wife travels for work

for years it was 4-5 trips at 2-3 nights each and felt manageable
I even went on some w/her before we had kids


since we've had kids the travel has gotten very old for me
especially since our second

especially since we haven't had any travel as a couple except with the kids visiting family

wife has resisted/blocked my desire to let my folks watch our kids for no good reason during these years

travel ramped up for my wife to 8-10 trips/year including 2-3 year for 4-5 nights/each for 3-4 years until we ran into a lot of problems the past 18 months where I asked her to minimize her travel to the bare minimum she can get away with and still function in her job

DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHILD

part of my, a very small part but one I'm aware of, resents my beautiful fun laughing loving 2nd child because putting a 2nd child into a marriage that had some problems (though I didn't know it at the time) has made all of them worse

especially when she travels

(have had times when all 3 of us were sick with bad stomach bug/flu for 5 days while wife was gone...another time plumbing was out in the house for 3 of 4 days wife was gone...so many other things)


do 
not
have
another '
child 
with
this w
woman


very major problem for her not to tell you about the travel ahead of time


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Just lay it out there do not shout but be firm and if this is another bash fest just get up and leave.
> Write an outline of what you want to talk about stop walking on eggshells.
> Is the therapist giving you a chance to talk?


She did, the wife would intercept with her version, and it threw me off gaurd. If I am getting beatup agian, I will leave. i feel sick. 

To whoever asked why I hate her travelling, its because I cant help her when she is gone and she cant help me. We started our relationship in a longterm, and we dreaded leaving each other. It brings back that feeling.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Thank you everyone. I know its only my side of the story, but she is stubborn (almost more than me). I do not think she would cheat on me, I know I could never do that to her. I do suspect that she will say she wont travel, but something will change and we will be right back where we are now, but with 2 kids and much more at risk. This sucks.

In my mind, the job is controlling her, not me. They are the ones that require her to travel, in my mind, jobs are a dime a dozen. We can choose our jobs, my kid cannot choose thier who mommy and daddy are. (not yet anyway)


----------



## tom67

Come back and tell us about the second session tonight keep venting it helps.


----------



## lenzi

Bubbagumps said:


> She did not give me an intake form, she filled on out for her, but did not give me one. I read the form and said I drink 70 drinks per week..... thats news to me.


Is there some truth to it? Are you a heavy drinker?

Do you drink 20 drinks a week? 30? 

As far as her knowing 2 months in advance and not telling you until the last minute.. She sounds like she's angry at you and is punishing you in some way by keeping you in the dark.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Its tommorrow morning. This is going to suck. I just know it.


----------



## Omar174

Bubbagumps said:


> To whoever asked why I hate her travelling, its because I cant help her when she is gone and she cant help me. We started our relationship in a longterm, and we dreaded leaving each other. It brings back that feeling.


Sounds like you have separation anxiety disorder. 

You should really seek help if you don't want to push your wife away. 

Work related trips are not out of the ordinary. As a matter of fact, my wife will be gone next week M-F, and I'll be gone the week after that. I come home for a week, and go out again for another week. ALL work related trips. It's normal. And as your career progresses, things change and travel might become necessary. 

If you want more problems, go ahead and smother your wife to the point she quits her job and resents you for it. See where that gets you.


----------



## lenzi

Omar174 said:


> Sounds like you have separation anxiety disorder.


My dog has that.

Bubba, do you rip the garbage apart or pee on the bed when your wife is out of town?

If so, we may be on to something here.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

The disrespect is not telling you when she is traveling. Meetings - especially international trips - you should have weeks if not months notice. Sure, stuff can come up at the last minute but it should be the exception not the rule.

I travel around 50% for work. I've always travelled for work, but i recently took this job- much higher salary but more travel. My wife travels infrequently for work 2-3 trips per year 1-2 nights max per trip. So it's managable for me when she is gone, though it's hectic. I give her a ton of credit when I'm gone - we have two kids 4 and 6. They are a handful to say the least. They stress me out.

We have calendar apps on out phone so she knows when I'm gone, where, vice versa. Kids stuff on there too. It helps.

As far as your situation, were these trips scheduled last minute? Or did she not tell you all this time? I agree with others to keep an eye on things. There is a reason she isn't telling you. Or maybe she was actually invited by a work friend at the last minute to tag along?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Omar174

Bubbagumps said:


> In my mind, the job is controlling her, not me. They are the ones that require her to travel, in my mind, jobs are a dime a dozen. We can choose our jobs, my kid cannot choose thier who mommy and daddy are. (not yet anyway)


Why in the hell would you want to "control" your wife? How do you think that makes her feel? :scratchhead:


----------



## lenzi

Omar174 said:


> Why in the hell would you want to "control" your wife? How do you think that makes her feel? :scratchhead:


Where in the world did you get that he wants to control his wife?

This is how misunderstandings begin.


----------



## Omar174

lenzi said:


> My dog has that.
> 
> Bubba, do you rip the garbage apart or pee on the bed when your wife is out of town?
> 
> If so, we may be on to something here.


HAHAHA!  Tool.


----------



## Omar174

lenzi said:


> Where in the world did you get that he wants to control his wife?
> 
> This is how misunderstandings begin.


Did you not read the part I quoted?


----------



## lenzi

Omar174 said:


> Did you not read the part I quoted?


Omar I read it several times, trying to figure out where you got the idea that he wants to control his wife.

I got nothing.


----------



## Omar174

Bubbagumps said:


> Thank you everyone. I know its only my side of the story, but she is stubborn (almost more than me). I do not think she would cheat on me, I know I could never do that to her. I do suspect that she will say she wont travel, but something will change and we will be right back where we are now, but with 2 kids and much more at risk. This sucks.
> 
> In my mind, the job is controlling her, *not me*. They are the ones that require her to travel, in my mind, jobs are a dime a dozen. We can choose our jobs, my kid cannot choose thier who mommy and daddy are. (not yet anyway)





lenzi said:


> Omar I read it several times, trying to figure out where you got the idea that he wants to control his wife.
> 
> I got nothing.


See his first post. His wife told him she will not let anyone control her, so there is clue 1 that he is trying. 

Then read the bold part I quoted above.


----------



## lenzi

Omar174 said:


> See his first post. His wife told him she will not let anyone control her, so there is clue 1 that he is trying.
> 
> Then read the bold part I quoted above.



It's not a clue. His wife says she doesn't want anyone controlling her. So what? This appears to be in response to his concerns about all the traveling she's doing. That's not control on his part, that's her excuse for blowing off his concerns. 

It's like a suspicious husband telling his wife he's concerned when she stays out with her friends and going to some single guy's house afterwards until 3 in the morning and her saying "you are trying to control me".


----------



## Omar174

lenzi said:


> It's not a clue. His wife says she doesn't want anyone controlling her. So what? This appears to be in response to his concerns about all the traveling she's doing. That's not control on his part, that's her excuse for blowing off his concerns.
> 
> It's like a suspicious husband telling his wife he's concerned when she stays out with her friends and going to some single guy's house afterwards until 3 in the morning and her saying "you are trying to control me".


I'll put it in bold print for you one more time.



Bubbagumps said:


> Thank you everyone. I know its only my side of the story, but she is stubborn (almost more than me). I do not think she would cheat on me, I know I could never do that to her. I do suspect that she will say she wont travel, but something will change and we will be right back where we are now, but with 2 kids and much more at risk. This sucks.
> 
> *In my mind, the job is controlling her, not me.* They are the ones that require her to travel, in my mind, jobs are a dime a dozen. We can choose our jobs, my kid cannot choose thier who mommy and daddy are. (not yet anyway)


----------



## lenzi

Omar174 said:


> I'll put it in bold print for you one more time.


Thank you but I think you need to do it at least 3 more times to drill your point home.


----------



## Omar174

lenzi said:


> Thank you but I think you need to do it at least 3 more times to drill your point home.


Why not. I got time today. :smthumbup:


----------



## LonelyinLove

What is in the water recently with men spazzing over their wives business travel? 

I do agree she should have told you as soon as she knew it was a possible trip.


----------



## Voltaire2013

Hint, it's not really about the travel.

Cheers,
V(13)




LonelyinLove said:


> What is in the water recently with men spazzing over their wives business travel?
> 
> I do agree she should have told you as soon as she knew it was a possible trip.


----------



## Bubbagumps

lenzi said:


> Is there some truth to it? Are you a heavy drinker?
> 
> Do you drink 20 drinks a week? 30?
> 
> As far as her knowing 2 months in advance and not telling you until the last minute.. She sounds like she's angry at you and is punishing you in some way by keeping you in the dark.


We both enjoy a beverage now and then. We are both get sleepy when we drink. So yes there is some truth to that. I would not say it causes problems for either of us. 
The exaggeration frustrates me, honestly at first I thought it was a play to take my kiddo. I do not think that anymore, I think she is just trying to justify something to herself.


----------



## PBear

What possible reason would she have to lie? 

C


----------



## lenzi

Bubbagumps said:


> We both enjoy a beverage now and then. We are both get sleepy when we drink. So yes there is some truth to that. I would not say it causes problems for either of us.
> The exaggeration frustrates me, honestly at first I thought it was a play to take my kiddo. I do not think that anymore, I think she is just trying to justify something to herself.


Your answer seems evasive.

How many drinks do you have in an average week?


----------



## Marduk

LonelyinLove said:


> What is in the water recently with men spazzing over their wives business travel?
> 
> I do agree she should have told you as soon as she knew it was a possible trip.


What an incredibly insensitive thing to say.


----------



## Bubbagumps

lenzi said:


> Your answer seems evasive.
> 
> How many drinks do you have in an average week?


7-10


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubbagumps said:


> 7-10


Maybe the "70" drinks per week was a typo?! Or was it handwritten?


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> Maybe the "70" drinks per week was a typo?! Or was it handwritten?


Hand Written

She is on the trip now. She did not reply to my calls which was strange. 
Later when I talked with her she said she went to dinner and was going to the lobby for drinks with the people she was traveling with.
She said " she had an early morning and its not like we are going to paint the town red" 
I called her later to ask about tax papers and she said she would let me know when she "got back"...(wind noise in the backround.)
I called the hotel, they do not have a lobby that serves drinks.
She is lieing. I am devistated. i puked, and had what felt like a mini heart attack
I called her after that becase its late and wanted to discuss family things. She became defensive and sounded drunk, I asked her if she was saying this infront of her work colleges she says she was with, she said she stepped outside. 
She has not returned the call. Something is up.


----------



## GusPolinski

Bubbagumps said:


> Hand Written
> 
> She is on the trip now. She did not reply to my calls which was strange.
> Later when I talked with her she said she went to dinner and was going to the lobby for drinks with the people she was traveling with.
> She said " she had an early morning and its not like we are going to paint the town red"
> I called her later to ask about tax papers and she said she would let me know when she "got back"...(wind noise in the backround.)
> I called the hotel, they do not have a lobby that serves drinks.
> She is lieing. I am devistated. i puked, and had what felt like a mini heart attack
> I called her after that becase its late and wanted to discuss family things. She became defensive and sounded drunk, I asked her if she was saying this infront of her work colleges she says she was with, she said she stepped outside.
> She has not returned the call. Something is up.


What kind of phone does she use?


----------



## Bubbagumps

GusPolinski said:


> What kind of phone does she use?


Iphone 
I asked her about the "lobby" and she lied to me agian.


----------



## LonelyinLove

marduk said:


> What an incredibly insensitive thing to say.


How is it insensitive?

This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've read about men complaining about their wives on business travel.

It's 2015...women work too. Businesses have expectations of all their employees, just not the male ones or the single ones or the ones without children.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Bubbagumps said:


> Iphone
> I asked her about the "lobby" and she lied to me agian.


Just to calm you a bit, a "lobby" type area is sometimes set-up for drinks for a specific group of people using the hotel. It may not be at her hotel...it could be the hotel where the conference is at.

This is a normal function but the person at the front desk may be unaware of the "temporary" set-up.

I used to be a Corporate Event Manager so I am aware of this use of this option.


----------



## Bubbagumps

LonelyinLove said:


> Just to calm you a bit, a "lobby" type area is sometimes set-up for drinks for a specific group of people using the hotel. It may not be at her hotel...it could be the hotel where the conference is at.
> 
> This is a normal function but the person at the front desk may be unaware of the "temporary" set-up.
> 
> I used to be a Corporate Event Manager so I am aware of this use of this option.


I caught her in the lie, she went out with people from work to bars, then met up with more people she worked with at other bars. She kept denying the lobby thing, but I was right, she said she did not want me getting mad because she was going to meet some old friends...


----------



## GusPolinski

Bubbagumps said:


> Iphone
> I asked her about the "lobby" and she lied to me agian.


OK, answer these questions...

* Do you have the e-mail address and password associated w/ her iTunes/iCloud account? What about the password for the e-mail account itself?

* What kind of e-mail account is linked to her iTunes/iCloud account? Gmail? Hotmail? Yahoo? Other? Please note that I'm not asking for the actual e-mail address.

* Do you also use an iPhone? If so, do you use the same iTunes/iCloud account w/ your iPhone that she uses w/ hers?

Now... these questions are directed toward using Apple's "Find My iPhone" functionality in order to locate her... or, to be more accurate, her iPhone. Having said that, DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS prior to answering the questions above, as doing so will result in a notification e-mail being sent to her, and you need to be ready to intercept that e-mail.

By the way, using Apple's "Find My Friends" functionality (similar to, though slightly different than FMI in that you don't actually need her account credentials) will NOT result in a notification e-mail being sent.


----------



## GusPolinski

Lila said:


> Bubbagumps:
> 
> Are you upset that she lied to you about her whereabouts or that she is socializing with her colleagues on a business trip? :scratchhead:


It's pretty clear that it's the former that's bugging him.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Lila said:


> Bubbagumps:
> 
> Are you upset that she lied to you about her whereabouts or that she is socializing with her colleagues on a business trip? :scratchhead:


I am upset because I stayed up until 1 am waiting on her, to have her lie to me multiple times about differnt things. I am very transparent, I would never say I was going someplace only to go out bar hopping.
She lied so many times in one conversation, the she rubbed my face in it and said " well you deal with it" I think she was drunk because she is texting/calling me 20 times in the last hour saying she was "sorry" , "she meessed up", "she lied"


----------



## Bubbagumps

GusPolinski said:


> It's pretty clear that it's the former that's bugging him.


I do not know her credentials. Do you think it is to that level now?


----------



## Bubbagumps

Lila said:


> Would you have gotten upset with her if she had told you the truth, that she was going out to socialize with her colleagues?


No, that is what I thought she was doing in the "lobby", I now know she went bar hopping with other males from past jobs. That is where I get suspcious. She also told me she does not drink on work trips prior to this, never with work colleges other than 1 drink. 
She told me she had 1 huge margarita and 1 beer before she went to the "lobby"


----------



## Nucking Futs




----------



## Bubbagumps

She left me 10 voicemails and text messages saying she lied to me, she was sorry, she hurt me, we need to talk, ect ect
I am not going to talk to her anymore until she is back. I am arranging someone to let her talk to the kiddo, but I will not be participate in it. 
I now know why I hated her traveling, intuit.
It wasn't the burden of the child, it was the burden of the demanding, ungrateful liar and was constantly bashing me for being a bad dad. Honesly it hurts to say but she is the problem. I literally thought it was me until last night. 
(I do know that It takes 2 to tango, but last night was a blessing and a curse)


----------



## GusPolinski

Bubbagumps said:


> I do not know her credentials. Do you think it is to that level now?


Eh... that's up to you. Honestly, though, if my wife were habitually lying to me about her whereabouts, I'd feel pretty justified in doing some discrete sleuthing.


----------



## yeah_right

If my H lied to me about bar hopping with some women he does not currently work with...yeah, snooping would ensue immediately. Bar hopping with current female co-workers is also not cool. Have that drink or two while discussing the meeting and then go to your room alone. No reason to get sloshed with co-workers at 1AM. Work is not getting done. Boundaries, people!!!!!!


----------



## convert

yeah_right said:


> If my H lied to me about bar hopping with some women he does not currently work with...yeah, snooping would ensue immediately. Bar hopping with current female co-workers is also not cool. Have that drink or two while discussing the meeting and then go to your room alone. No reason to get sloshed with co-workers at 1AM. Work is not getting done. Boundaries, people!!!!!!


absolutely


----------



## Bubbagumps

She keeps asking me how "Do you feel?"
I want to reply with "like I lost my best friend, lover and mother to my child."

Thank you everyone. Trying to keep myself together. 
I am a very loyal person, Its the most important value, If someone for any reason violates it, its gone. I do not have many friends, but the ones I do, They are still around for a reason.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> She keeps asking me how "Do you feel?"
> I want to reply with "like I lost my best friend, lover and mother to my child."
> 
> Thank you everyone. Trying to keep myself together.
> I am a very loyal person, Its the most important value, If someone for any reason violates it, its gone. I do not have many friends, but the ones I do, They are still around for a reason.


Simply state you feel that this should be discussed face to face. Then gather your thoughts and questions preparing for this communication on what appears to be habitual lying and possibly more.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Simply state you feel that this should be discussed face to face. Then gather your thoughts and questions preparing for this communication on what appears to be habitual lying and possibly more.


She will not accept that. She wants to talk now, via text. 
I think YOUR thought is a great idea, but I dont know what to tell her right now.***EDIT


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I am upset because I stayed up until 1 am waiting on her, to have her lie to me multiple times about differnt things. I am very transparent, I would never say I was going someplace only to go out bar hopping.
> She lied so many times in one conversation, the she rubbed my face in it and said " well you deal with it" I think she was drunk because she is texting/calling me 20 times in the last hour saying she was "sorry" , "she meessed up", "she lied"


Drunk? Good possibility she was expressing who she really feels about it...the lying etc. "You deal with it."

Honestly Bubba...you have a lot of questions that need answers. I hope your W communicates. The issue at hand...habitual lying...what is be believed from this point forward? :scratchhead:


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> She will not accept that. She wants to talk now, via text. I think its a great idea, but I dont know what to tell her right now.


No sir. Texting is not conducive to getting the true reaction to questions asked. There is plenty of reading into texts on things that are not there. I don't recommend it. But if you wish to go this route let's start with why the habitual lying.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Drunk? Good possibility she was expressing who she really feels about it...the lying etc. "You deal with it."
> 
> Honestly Bubba...you have a lot of questions that need answers. I hope your W communicates. The issue at hand...habitual lying...what is be believed from this point forward? :scratchhead:


I know she will not communicate based on everything that has happened since the start of this thread. 
I am afraid of what I will discover once the onion starts loosing layers.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> No sir. Texting is not conducive to getting the true reaction to questions asked. There is plenty of reading into texts on things that are not there. I don't recommend it. But if you wish to go this route let's start with why the habitual lying.


Sorry, I miss quoted, I thought the FACE TO FACE was a great idea. THe texting is not an option. I edited the mistype. My mistake.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I know she will not communicate based on everything that has happened since the start of this thread.
> I am afraid of what I will discover once the onion starts loosing layers.


It will be trickle truth. Yes, pulling away the layers, with what has already transpired, could be quite a revelation. However, this is only one way to find out. Start asking the hard questions.


----------



## GusPolinski

Bubbagumps said:


> She will not accept that. She wants to talk now, via text. I think its a great idea, but I dont know what to tell her right now.


Eh... you might want to listen to what she has to say. If she's at all hung over or in any sort of emotional turmoil (which seems somewhat likely since you're semi-ignoring her), she may very well wind up admitting a few things.

Text is OK... e-mail is better. Can you say evidence?!?

And if you talk w/ her over the phone, RECORD IT. Be aware, though... depending on your state/municipality, that may not be -- strictly speaking -- legal. Do some research into whether or not your state/municipality supports "one party consent" for the purpose of recording conversations.


----------



## tom67

Wow...
Start scheduling appointments with lawyers knowledge is power hit the big ones in town so she can't use them.
Then get two books around $11 each
"No More Mr Nice Guy"
"Married Man Sex Life Primer"
Here is the pdf link for one "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover - 7Chan ( 155 Pages )


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> It will be trickle truth. Yes, pulling away the layers, with what has already transpired, could be quite a revelation. However, this is only one way to find out. Start asking the hard questions.


She keeps texting me with " how do you feeL", I have not replied. I don know what to say. 

She is a few thousand miles away and wont be back until saterday.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Wow...
> Start scheduling appointments with lawyers knowledge is power hit the big ones in town so she can't use them.
> Then get two books around $11 each
> "No More Mr Nice Guy"
> "Married Man Sex Life Primer"
> Here is the pdf link for one "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover - 7Chan ( 155 Pages )



Thank you! I will check it out asap.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> She keeps texting me with " how do you feeL", I have not replied. I don know what to say.
> 
> She is a few thousand miles away and wont be back until saterday.


I would ask your W, "How do you think I should feel?" If she is asking you this then she knows that what she has done is completely and utterly wrong and disrespectful.


----------



## farsidejunky

And if she actually answers that question, then you follow up with asking her why she thinks you should feel that way. Give her enough rope to hang herself with.


----------



## yeah_right

Yeswecan and farsidejunky have the right idea. She wants to talk? Then give her open-ended answers that let her talk. Answer her questions with additional questions to guide info from her.

Hopefully she can come to an understanding on why this behavior is inappropriate...and you might get some clues if there is anything more to it than her acting like a teenager in front of her co-workers.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubba, honestly, how the h-ell does she think you should feel? You have been lied to continually. You W had no issue making these falsehoods either. It is not like a kid who stole a cookie from the cookie jar. Then lied about it when confronted. This is serious out and out calculated deception on your W part. 

I'm wondering why you are not extremely and utterly pissed.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Bubba, honestly, how the h-ell does she think you should feel? You have been lied to continually. You W had no issue making these falsehoods either. It is not like a kid who stole a cookie from the cookie jar. Then lied about it when confronted. This is serious out and out calculated deception on your W part.
> 
> I'm wondering why you are not extremely and utterly pissed.


I am not "pissed" because I do not want my kid to detect it, and what can I actually do. The bell has been rung.
I dont have words for what I am feeling other than as if I have entered the abyss


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> Yeswecan and farsidejunky have the right idea. She wants to talk? Then give her open-ended answers that let her talk. Answer her questions with additional questions to guide info from her.
> 
> Hopefully she can come to an understanding on why this behavior is inappropriate...and you might get some clues if there is anything more to it than her acting like a teenager in front of her co-workers.


Answers from her: 
Q.How do you think I should feel: 
wA: Betrayed and angry
Why Do you think I would feel that way? 
A: Because I was not honest

Any other Questions I should Ask. I just cannot think at all right now. Thank nyou


----------



## naiveonedave

why did you think it was okay to lie to me?


----------



## yeah_right

"Why weren't you honest with me?"


----------



## Bubbagumps

naiveonedave said:


> why did you think it was okay to lie to me?


Thank you, Asked.
** Reply: "it wasnt"
"""" second Reply " I am really sorry"


----------



## Tasorundo

You might ask if she is being completely honest with you now.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> "Why weren't you honest with me?"


Asked.

***** NO REPLY*****


----------



## yeah_right

Tasorundo said:


> You might ask if she is being completely honest with you now.


She's going to say yes to that no matter what.


----------



## convert

The only other option would be to go dark on her until she comes back Saturday.
going dark Maybe even with the kids, though that would not be fair to the kids and that would make her very angry.
you are going to have to talk sometime although it would be best face to face


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Answers from her:
> Q.How do you think I should feel:
> wA: Betrayed and angry
> Why Do you think I would feel that way?
> A: Because I was not honest
> 
> Any other Questions I should Ask. I just cannot think at all right now. Thank nyou


Ask her, Why do you feel it was ok to lie to me?


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> She's going to say yes to that no matter what.


I agree.


----------



## yeah_right

I agree that this discussion is better handled face to face. I would simply tell her that you have some thinking to do the next few days and don't want to talk until she gets home. But remind her that she is welcome to talk to the kids as much as she wants. Go totally dark except for the kids.


----------



## Yeswecan

Also ask, what have you and your child done to deserve the lying. Besides the habitual lying about drinking, where you are going and with what coworkers is there anything else you would like to tell me?


----------



## yeah_right

Yeswecan said:


> Also ask, what have you and your child done to deserve the lying. Besides the habitual lying about drinking, where you are going and with what coworkers* is there anything else you would like to tell me?*


She's going to say "nothing", that this was a one time thing, she was stupid for lying, it was all work-related, yada, yada, yada.

She's not going to admit to anything that is going to upset him more or that he does not have proof of.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Ask her, Why do you feel it was ok to lie to me?


ASked

Reply: "it wasnt"
" I am really sorry"


----------



## farsidejunky

Tell her this: Remorse is shown in actions, not words. I have some thinking to do over the next few days. I don't think we really have anything to talk about until you come back. Anytime you want to talk to the children you are more than welcome.

Then go dark.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Also ask, what have you and your child done to deserve the lying. Besides the habitual lying about drinking, where you are going and with what coworkers is there anything else you would like to tell me?



This will make her explode. She accused me of "filling kids head with lies" before. But now the truth is far worst from the lies.

The other stuff The counselor will see right though...


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> ASked
> 
> Reply: "it wasnt"
> " I am really sorry"


Next question:

What do you plan on doing to rectify the situation?


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> This will make her explode. She accused me of "filling kids head with lies" before. But now the truth is far worst from the lies.
> 
> The other stuff The counselor will see right though...


Ok, if this will make her get angry let's avoid that as she is 1000 miles away and simply cutting off the texting is a viable option for your W. 

Sadly, your W is projecting her lies on you and the kids. Whatever lies your W believes you are filling the kids heads with appear to not be lie at all. The lying has stemmed from your W. Let's not lose sight of that.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> "Why weren't you honest with me?"


Reply: Because honestly I though you would just give me a hard time if I was enjoying myself. I did not want to rub anything in. It didn/t see fair if I was at a bar.

/and you were home alone
/I didn't do it to be hurtful, I swear


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Reply: Because honestly I though you would just give me a hard time if I was enjoying myself. I did not want to rub anything in. It didn/t see fair if I was at a bar.
> 
> /and you were home alone
> /I didn't do it to be hurtful, I swear


There is probably some truth to these statements. I was in sales and would downplay to my W the lunches/dinners with clients. I did not want to rub it in. And yes, sometimes she would ask what I had to eat and she would state she had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Sometimes it did not seem fair to me however it was my job. Truth be told...I much rather be eating lunch with my W. Some days I went home and did just that.

But lying is never the correct answer.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> There is probably some truth to these statements. I was in sales and would downplay to my W the lunches/dinners with clients. I did not want to rub it in. And yes, sometimes she would ask what I had and she would state she had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Sometimes it did not seem fair to me however it was my job. Truth be told...I much rather be eating lunch with my W. Some days I went home and did just that.


Keep in mind we had already discussed her wonderful dinner and she was going to the lounge to "let her food settle".....


----------



## farsidejunky

How can I trust you about big things if you're willing to lie about something that you seem to think is so insignificant?


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> How can I trust you about big things if you're willing to lie about something that you seem to think is so insignificant?


ASked


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Keep in mind we had already discussed her wonderful dinner and she was going to the lounge to "let her food settle".....


Then I would say there is more to the story certainly. 

I'm of mind at this point to allow this to rest and have her plan on communicating further when she gets home. Right now you are missing a whole bunch of body language, voice intonations and looks with the use of texting.

I don't think this will be resolved via texting today.


----------



## Lostinthought61

if you really want to get her to talk...tell her, her dishonesty has you reassessing your marriage to her. then go dark.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Then I would say there is more to the story certainly.
> 
> I'm of mind at this point to allow this to rest and have her plan on communicating further when she gets home. Right now you are missing a whole bunch of body language, voice intonations and looks with the use of texting.
> 
> I don't think this will be resolved via texting today.


I agree, I expect nothing to come out of texting. I do find it intersting how fast she responds on some of them, others she takes her time.....


----------



## Bubbagumps

Xenote said:


> if you really want to get her to talk...tell her, her dishonesty has you reassessing your marriage to her. then go dark.


I am not sure that will do anything but give her more fuel to do whatever she is doing. I could be wrong.


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> How can I trust you about big things if you're willing to lie about something that you seem to think is so insignificant?


REPLY: 
pt1: i get that. I get that I lost your trust and I am sorry. Like I said, I messed up, and I'm Sorry
pt2: 
This whole tip got off to an awful start. Is there any way we can start over? 

______


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I agree, I expect nothing to come out of texting. I do find it intersting how fast she responds on some of them, others she takes her time.....


Either busy or searching the answer she thinks you want to hear. Or she really is searching for the answer she believe is the correct answer. 

Keep the communication light. I would not go dark since you believe it might perpetuate more of the same behavior.


----------



## Lostinthought61

you know your wife better than I Bubba, but my gut tells me she is very worried, and probably fixed in the back of her mind right now and i would bet that she is formulating a plan of attack to bring this up with you...by throwing this wrench in the discussion you put her in even more nervous situation and she will not focus on having fun, she will focus on saving her marriage....also keep in mind what would happen to her if you guys divorce, her trips will get side track, because you may not be abel to take your child every time she leaves...believe me she will be sweating bullets


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> REPLY:
> pt1: i get that. I get that I lost your trust and I am sorry. Like I said, I messed up, and I'm Sorry
> pt2:
> This whole tip got off to an awful start. *Is there any way we can start over? *
> 
> ______


What I have in bold....not that easy nor should she get off that easy. Trust is earned through actions. Texting will not earn the trust. This will take time. Simply carpet sweeping and saying I'm sorry does not correct the error in your W judgement to lie.


----------



## Yeswecan

Xenote said:


> you know your wife better than I Bubba, but my gut tells me she is very worried, and probably fixed in the back of her mind right now and i would bet that she is formulating a plan of attack to bring this up with you...by throwing this wrench in the discussion you put her in even more nervous situation and she will not focus on having fun, she will focus on saving her marriage....also keep in mind what would happen to her if you guys divorce, *her trips will get side track*, because you may not be abel to take your child every time she leaves...believe me she will be sweating bullets


I'm thinking trips are cancelled indefinitely. If she does not see the reason why then I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## yeah_right

My vote still goes to telling her you have some thinking to do and will discuss this issue face to face when she gets home. And then only discuss issues about your kids until then. No need to be rude or start a fight. Remain calm. This problem will not be sorted out by text while she's still gone. 

Have you thought about how you're going to handle the next four nights, wondering if she's out carousing? Because if it was me, I'd be a basket case. How are you planning to deal with that?


----------



## Lostinthought61

I want you to consider something...if a spouse is drinking social maybe too much and lies about it but also cheating what do you think they do....they will immediately cope to the lying or drinking, and ask for forgiveness, all in order to hide the cheating....its easier to fall on the sword over the drinking if your hiding the cheating.


----------



## Yeswecan

yeah_right said:


> My vote still goes to telling her you have some thinking to do and will discuss this issue face to face when she gets home. And then only discuss issues about your kids until then. No need to be rude or start a fight. Remain calm. This problem will not be sorted out by text while she's still gone.
> 
> Have you thought about how you're going to handle the next four nights, wondering if she's out carousing? Because if it was me, I'd be a basket case. How are you planning to deal with that?


I have posted much the same. Keep it light. But keep communicating. This will be resolved face to face. Not through emotionless texting. 

As far as the next 4 nights....it would be a great time for your wife to advise her whereabouts often. It is time for some accountability.


----------



## Bubbagumps

I think this is going to be my last reply to her. 

Reputation takes years to build and seconds to destroy. Your dishonesty has force me into reassessing my marriage to you.


----------



## yeah_right

Bubbagumps said:


> REPLY:
> pt1: i get that. I get that I lost your trust and I am sorry. Like I said, I messed up, and I'm Sorry
> pt2:
> *This whole tip got off to an awful start.* Is there any way we can start over?
> 
> ______



Is she a basketball fan? Is this discussion a game? As a woman, that's a weird thing for a woman to say in this situation. Unless that's how she normally talks. You know her better than we do.


----------



## Tasorundo

Or it could be a typo for trip.


----------



## Yeswecan

yeah_right said:


> Is she a basketball fan? Is this discussion a game? As a woman, that's a weird thing for a woman to say in this situation. Unless that's how she normally talks. You know her better than we do.


This it was to be trip and not tip.


----------



## yeah_right

Thanks, I was reading tip off. [email protected] my eyes!


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> Is she a basketball fan? Is this discussion a game? As a woman, that's a weird thing for a woman to say in this situation. Unless that's how she normally talks. You know her better than we do.


She hates sports..
That reply is strange to me too, but not because of the typ0


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I think this is going to be my last reply to her.
> 
> Reputation takes years to build and seconds to destroy. Your dishonesty has force me into reassessing my marriage to you.


I would not use the word force. 

"The deception has caused me to re-access our marriage."


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> I would not use the word force.
> 
> "The deception has caused me to re-access our marriage."


I replied to her "start over comment"
me: 
"Start over?"
She said " yes"
Final from me coming next.

Reputation takes years to build and seconds to destroy.


----------



## Satya

Definitely do not finish this over text or in her mind it may be discussed and closed. 

Keep the door to the conversation open and only carry on when you can be face to face.


----------



## yeah_right

Satya said:


> Definitely do not finish this over text or in her mind it may be discussed and closed.
> 
> Keep the door to the conversation open and only carry on when you can be face to face.


Agreed. I see her wanting it "closed" this afternoon so she can go out again tonight with a clear conscience...and without fear of you interrupting her with texts and calls.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> Agreed. I see her wanting it "closed" this afternoon so she can go out again tonight with a clear conscience...and without fear of you interrupting her with texts and calls.


I replied with " how did the whole trip get off to an awful start?"
She replied " us fighting"


----------



## Yeswecan

Satya said:


> Definitely do not finish this over text or in her mind it may be discussed and closed.
> 
> Keep the door to the conversation open and only carry on when you can be face to face.


Absolutely. This is not over by a long shot and allowing your W to "just start over" her week long good time should not happen. Doing so would be sweeping it under the rug.

Stating "can we just start over" is another way of say, "let's just forget about it."


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I replied with " how did the whole trip get off to an awful start?"
> She replied " us fighting"


And what caused the "us fighting" your W has stated? She assumed.


----------



## farsidejunky

"There will not be any starting over, and the actions that you choose while on the remainder of this trip matter. Choose carefully."


----------



## Yeswecan

farsidejunky said:


> There will not be any starting over, and the actions that you choose while on the remainder of this trip matter.


I agree 100%. Action Bubba...actions. Text is empty words at the moment. 

"I'm sorry."
"Let's start over."
"Us fighting."

Your W, other than assuming you would get upset with her drunken good times at the bar, has done very little to explain why she chose to lie in the first place. It is all very calculating to me.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> And what caused the "us fighting" your W has stated? She assumed.


She went off on me before she left accusing me of things because I like to fight. I got that recorded with my home security system.


----------



## farsidejunky

If that is true, there is some serious resentment there on her end.

You are walking a fine line here, brother. You need her to be sufficiently worried enough that she minds herself, as another poster stated, because she may go completely off the rails if she feels like there's not much to lose.

She needs to be concerned about her marriage and the fact that you haven't completely abandoned her. Communicate the last message I 
posted to her. Make her understand that the decisions from this point forward in this trip matter.


----------



## Bubbagumps

So I have her next trip coming up to Europe at the end of the month for 7 days. Given what happened with this cluster, (read op) My insecurity and distrust of her are sky high. I have no idea what to so about that
I was uneasy before, now I am in a nightmare.


----------



## farsidejunky

Before you make any decision on that, you need to have a face to face talk with her upon return from this trip.

No rash decisions right now. You don't know enough to make any decisions at this point.


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> If that is true, there is some serious resentment there on her end.
> 
> You are walking a fine line here, brother. You need her to be sufficiently worried enough that she mind yourself, as another poster stated, because she may go completely off the rails if she feels like there's not much to lose.
> 
> She needs to be concerned about her marriage and the fact that you haven't completely abandoned her. Communicate the last message I
> posted to her. Make her understand that the decisions from this point forward in this trip matter.


I sent just what you said.
She literally started to blame me before that for me calling the hotel to find out if they had a lobby. Unreal. She said we were both to blame because I was "checking up on her" and violated her trust by checking if the hotel had a Lobby.


----------



## farsidejunky

"There a lot of ways to earn trust, but blaming me for your choosing to lie is not one of them. Our conversation is concluded until you're prepared to accept responsibility for your actions without blaming me."


----------



## farsidejunky

Is she always this flaky over accountability?


----------



## Lostinthought61

The lady doth protest too much, methinks


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> So I have her next trip coming up to Europe at the end of the month for 7 days. Given what happened with this cluster, (read op) My insecurity and distrust of her are sky high. I have no idea what to so about that
> I was uneasy before, now I am in a nightmare.


Your W needs to find a way to rectify the situation concerning going to Europe. Let's see, she is away now for a week. In a week or two she will be gone for another 7 days. :scratchhead:

Just how does one have a productive relationship when 50% of the time the significant other is absent? And she wants another child? For what reason does she want another child? I ask because she is absent a lot.

When did the conversation of wanting another child come up?


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> Is she always this flaky over accountability?


SHe is a master of twisting words. 100% everything is always my fault. I actually started to belive it... sad really.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Your W needs to find a way to rectify the situation concerning going to Europe. Let's see, she is away now for a week. In a week or two she will be gone for another 7 days. :scratchhead:
> 
> Just how does one have a productive relationship when 50% of the time the significant other is absent? And she wants another child? For what reason does she want another child? I ask because she is absent a lot.
> 
> When did the conversation of wanting another child come up?


about 2-3 weeks ago


----------



## yeah_right

Bubbagumps said:


> about 2-3 weeks ago


Are you sure she's not already pregnant?


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> about 2-3 weeks ago


Oh my...not good. Why bring this 2-3 weeks before the trip? Something is not passing the sniff test.


----------



## Yeswecan

yeah_right said:


> Are you sure she's not already pregnant?


Damn fine question hence my question when his W asked about another child.


----------



## farsidejunky

Have you looked into any cell records, internet history, anything along those lines yet?


----------



## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> Have you looked into any cell records, internet history, anything along those lines yet?


If she wants to talk to the kids let her but keep the convos with her short until she comes back.
It's good you have the security system before she comes back get 2 vars one with you all the time and one in her car because you have to find out what you are up against in my opinion.
Gird yourself and please do not have unprotected sex when she comes back.
Hang in there.


----------



## farsidejunky

Any developments, Bubbagumps?


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Damn fine question hence my question when his W asked about another child.


YES


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> Any developments, Bubbagumps?


yes, she said : 
I am not blaming you I simply mean that I was dishonest and I accept that I screwed up. But I am failing to see how that caused you to go to the ER. I have no dount it upset you. It would upset me but there is a huge gap in severity. 

***Have a heart condition. She told me last night, ER.... This will be deleted to attempt to be anon.


----------



## Marduk

Go dark. 

Time to put the shoe on the other foot.


----------



## Marduk

LonelyinLove said:


> How is it insensitive?
> 
> This is the 3rd or 4th thread I've read about men complaining about their wives on business travel.
> 
> It's 2015...women work too. Businesses have expectations of all their employees, just not the male ones or the single ones or the ones without children.


Have you ever been in what you thought was a happy marriage and woke up one day to find your wife suddenly travelling all the time?

I have. And it had nothing to do with anything except her searching for fulfillment outside the marriage, and I can tell you it hurt like hell. It's not whining, it's a giant red flag. 

And, perhaps it's not the case here, but in my experience a percentage of business travel is discretionary. 

And how a spouse conducts him or herself while away on business travel after business hours is 100% discretionary.


----------



## Dogbert

How about you letting her know not to call you because you are going to be going out a couple of nights a week?


----------



## Bubbagumps

Dogbert said:


> How about you letting her know not to call you because you are going to be going out a couple of nights a week?


Because I have a kid I have to watch while she goes on these "training conferance" trips.


----------



## farsidejunky

Do your parents live close? 

Do you never hire a sitter?

Do the two of you ever go out on a date?


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> Do your parents live close?
> 
> Do you never hire a sitter?
> 
> Do the two of you ever go out on a date?


Yes
No
No- Trust me I know this is a problem. We work too much. 

I am in dark mode. she called, I picked up the phone let the kid talk, as promised. 
I am not saying a word to her.


----------



## farsidejunky

Okay, not excusing the behavior, but once you rule out an affair and she shows true remorse over the lying, you need to pull your head out of your fourth point of contact and show your wife you are still fun.

If (big if) this was nothing more than her lying so she could let her hair down, do you honestly blame her for wanting to get out of town and have a good time? It doesn't sound like it is happening at home.


----------



## Dogbert

Bubbagumps said:


> Because I have a kid I have to watch while she goes on these "training conferance" trips.


You could hire a babysitter if your child is old enough. Besides who says you have to actually go out? Can't you lie?


----------



## tom67

Dogbert said:


> You could hire a babysitter if your child is old enough. Besides who says you have to actually go out? Can't you lie?


Go out with a friend friday night if you can get a babysitter you deserve some alone time once in a while.
Just not as much as your wife.


----------



## Dogbert

I know it sounds childish, this tit for tat, but sometimes the only way for an adult who acts like a rebellious teenager to get the message, is to give him/her a taste of his/her own medicine. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> Okay, not excusing the behavior, but once you rule out an affair and she shows true remorse over the lying, you need to pull your head out of your fourth point of contact and show your wife you are still fun.
> 
> If (big if) this was nothing more than her lying so she could let her hair down, do you honestly blame her for wanting to get out of town and have a good time? It doesn't sound like it is happening at home.


I have not left in 2.5 years because of her travel. I commmitted to my family at all costs. I have been invited to places people would not belive, fully paid. I have not left once, and will not. 
I would like to go out to, trust me. 
She had the choice to not tell me about this trip, I could have EASILY gone the tickets would be free. She did not tell me for a reason.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Dogbert said:


> You could hire a babysitter if your child is old enough. Besides who says you have to actually go out? Can't you lie?


Nope, I dont lie


----------



## tom67

Wait...
You could have gone for free?
You are right there is a reason.
VAR in the car when she gets back.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> I have not left in 2.5 years because of her travel. I commmitted to my family at all costs. I have been invited to places people would not belive, fully paid. I have not left once, and will not.
> I would like to go out to, trust me.
> She had the choice to not tell me about this trip, I could have EASILY gone the tickets would be free. She did not tell me for a reason.


And thats why you're getting screwed man. You're all in, she dances on the periphery. You focus on the marriage, she focuses on herself. 

I'm like that too. Wife started this kind of stuff. I acted just like you and made it worse. 

The only thing that worked was when I started going out exactly as much as she did. In about 3 weeks she had a sudden epiphany that she would like to focus on the marriage. 

Then I fell back into my nice guy habit... Crap ensued again. 

I just got back from my first boys trip in a decade. She had been taking a few girls trips a year...(not a problem, but other stuff was) And suddenly, another epiphany before I left that maybe we should only travel together and really focus on each other. 

I'm not sure, but I think there's a pattern here somewhere...


----------



## farsidejunky

Bubbagumps said:


> I have not left in 2.5 years because of her travel. I commmitted to my family at all costs. I have been invited to places people would not belive, fully paid. I have not left once, and will not.
> I would like to go out to, trust me.
> She had the choice to not tell me about this trip, I could have EASILY gone the tickets would be free. She did not tell me for a reason.


Time for sleuth mode. Read weightlifter's thread on evidence gathering. As a matter of fact i will PM him and get him to weigh in. Something in the milk ain't clean.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> And thats why you're getting screwed man. You're all in, she dances on the periphery. You focus on the marriage, she focuses on herself.
> 
> I'm like that too. Wife started this kind of stuff. I acted just like you and made it worse.
> 
> The only thing that worked was when I started going out exactly as much as she did. In about 3 weeks she had a sudden epiphany that she would like to focus on the marriage.
> 
> Then I fell back into my nice guy habit... Crap ensued again.
> 
> I just got back from my first boys trip in a decade. She had been taking a few girls trips a year...(not a problem, but other stuff was) And suddenly, another epiphany before I left that maybe we should only travel together and really focus on each other.
> 
> I'm not sure, but I think there's a pattern here somewhere...


I think that I am going to put my foot down on the europe trip. If she goes, its over. I am already at 50% care giver at this point.
She decided to lie.


----------



## aine

marduk said:


> Been there, done that.
> 
> Assuming there's no other man and she has no intention of there being one...
> 
> She's searching. The work, the travel to party, the wanting another kid... all symptoms of that. For what, you need to sort out. And she needs a clue stick. Not in the form of control or you being pissy -- in the form of you naturally leading her to the conclusion that she needs to pick between a reasonable amount of travel and have a reasonable family life, or lots of travel and no family life, or what.
> 
> For my wife, I got the whole "you can't control me, I'm going out/away with my GF" line, too. Any attempt to have a reasonable or unreasonable conversation about it failed miserably and just gave her the "he's a control freak" and "he's insecure" cards to play.
> 
> So don't give them to her. How?
> 
> Simple. Two ways.
> 
> Way #1: "wife, you get to decide. Another kid or travel. I'm good with X times a year for X days in duration. If you can't commit to that what you are really asking me to do is raise your kids for you while you go and play. Pick."
> 
> Way #2: Mirror her behaviour. Wife didn't get what the problem with her going out all the time was... until I did it. And she didn't get what her going away for girl's trips was doing to our marriage until I started doing that, too.
> 
> I'm not talking about manipulation. Have the conversations first, in as loving and compassionate and clear ways first.


Nice strategies as it illustrates what she is doing. However, you seem to be a 'little over the top' with her travelling because of your past issues with your father rather than her per se. Maybe that is something that requires attention. I'm married to someone who travels for work non stop, it disn't bother me ( that was the requirement for his job) until he would come home and go out immediately to meet someone or go play golf and spend little or no time with me. I think you have to honestly examine why you feel the way you do instead of throwing around ultimatums. Ultimatums never motivate they just create a further wedge.
When she is at home is she a fully present wife?


----------



## convert

Wait... you could have went on this trip for free and she chose not to tell you about the trip until the last minute so you couldn't plan to go?

she didn't want you to go with her.
either because:
she doesn't think you fun putting a cramp in her good times?
or she wants to play single, which could include flings? 

coupled with wanting another kid seems odd to me.
unless this would be good cover for her getting pregnant.

and now lying about where she is and what she is doing (not good)

I would at least look into her phone and recover deleted texts, maybe VAR the car maybe even putting spy software on her phone.


----------



## tom67

convert said:


> Wait... you could have went on this trip for free and she chose not to tell you about the trip until the last minute so you couldn't plan to go?
> 
> she didn't want you to go with her.
> either because:
> she doesn't think you fun putting a cramp in her good times?
> or she wants to play single, which could include flings?
> 
> coupled with wanting another kid seems odd to me.
> unless this would be good cover for her getting pregnant.
> 
> and now lying about where she is and what she is doing (not good)
> 
> I would at least look into her phone and recover deleted texts, maybe VAR the car maybe even putting spy software on her phone.


Ask for her phone when she comes back and by her reaction you may get some answers.


----------



## Bubbagumps

convert said:


> Wait... you could have went on this trip for free and she chose not to tell you about the trip until the last minute so you couldn't plan to go?
> 
> she didn't want you to go with her.
> either because:
> she doesn't think you fun putting a cramp in her good times?
> or she wants to play single, which could include flings?
> 
> coupled with wanting another kid seems odd to me.
> unless this would be good cover for her getting pregnant.
> 
> and now lying about where she is and what she is doing (not good)
> 
> I would at least look into her phone and recover deleted texts, maybe VAR the car maybe even putting spy software on her phone.


I could have gone with her, had she given me a heads up more than 1.5 weeks in advance. She knew about this in January, but waited to tell me. 
Tickets would have been free or dirt cheap (reward points) 
Yes, She admitted to lying. "I dont normally lie to you about these things" she said in a voicemail last night. I wonder what she normally lies to me about? 

Full transparency will be maniditory. I would much rather focus on my kid, than have to worry about a liar. 
I know she will not scrub her Europe trip. She will try to make me into the bad guy by making her choose her job or Family. I did not lie. That ship sailed. She gets to choose her future. If she thinks in 2 weeks she can gain my trust back, she she has lost her mind. 
VAR is on the way. 
Making appointments with some people today to.


----------



## farsidejunky

What sort of appointments?


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> What sort of appointments?


Lawyers


----------



## tom67

Do you two have separate bank accounts?
If not take out half and set up one for you alone.

Just prepare that's all.


----------



## tom67

And you might want to ask family members for support and explain the situation as matter of fact to them.
Could her family make her see the light who knows but at least you could say you tried.
And please keep your cool.
Cold and firm fake it and look like you don't give a crap whether she stays or goes.
You have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Do you two have separate bank accounts?
> If not take out half and set up one for you alone.
> 
> Just prepare that's all.


We have shared and separate. 
Trying to figure out what to tell her to make her understand how far I am. I honestly think she is oblivious. 
I also noticed a huge amount of text messages..... Very tempted to turn that feature to just her family and me.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> And you might want to ask family members for support and explain the situation as matter of fact to them.
> Could her family make her see the light who knows but at least you could say you tried.
> And please keep your cool.
> Cold and firm fake it and look like you don't give a crap whether she stays or goes.
> You have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.


I plan to mention it tomorrow when her sister has her 3rd baby.
I have ice in my viens now. Calm Cool and anger is disabled.

I need to send her a text im that gets her attention, her full attention or she will explode when she gets home.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> I think that I am going to put my foot down on the europe trip. If she goes, its over. I am already at 50% care giver at this point.
> She decided to lie.


I'm not recommending that. 

Ultimatums are of limited value I've found in this space.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> I'm not recommending that.
> 
> Ultimatums are of limited value I've found in this space.


On a level of severity, she is at 2 on a 10 scale, she thinks this is a simple resolve. " Im sorry" "start over and forget about this" 

I am on a level 10.... 

I have no idea how to get her attention to make her understand how much she has already lost, but does not realize it. 

There will be nothing but fighting if she does not understand/comprhend the severity of this.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I could have gone with her, had she given me a heads up more than 1.5 weeks in advance. She knew about this in January, but waited to tell me.
> Tickets would have been free or dirt cheap (reward points)
> Yes, She admitted to lying. "I dont normally lie to you about these things" she said in a voicemail last night. I wonder what she normally lies to me about?
> 
> Full transparency will be maniditory. I would much rather focus on my kid, than have to worry about a liar.
> I know she will not scrub her Europe trip. She will try to make me into the bad guy by making her choose her job or Family. I did not lie. That ship sailed. She gets to choose her future. If she thinks in 2 weeks she can gain my trust back, she she has lost her mind.
> VAR is on the way.
> Making appointments with some people today to.


This is all very suspect...the not telling you about the trip and that you could have gone as well. 

Ask your W what she normally lies about. 

Of course she will not scrub a trip to Europe. Chance of a lifetime yadda yadda.

I suspect she will choose the job over the marriage. It appears she has with this latest stunt of leaving you behind when you could have gone. 

Yes, get some legal advise.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Sent her this: in your voicemail you said " this is not something I would normally lie to you about" What do you normally lie to be about? 

Reply: 
"meaning I do not lie to you. I've always been honest about what I do when I travel or any other time."


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> On a level of severity, she is at 2 on a 10 scale, she thinks this is a simple resolve. " Im sorry" "start over and forget about this"
> 
> I am on a level 10....
> 
> I have no idea how to get her attention to make her understand how much she has already lost, but does not realize it.
> 
> There will be nothing but fighting if she does not understand/comprhend the severity of this.


I doubt that is the way to convince her of the sincerity of this situation.

In my experience, my wife wasn't oblivious to how I felt about it.

She just didn't care.

Which was harder to accept.

How I got her to care wasn't by drawing a line in the sand, and then watching her walk across it and cry foul at "I'm a grown up and get to make my own decisions!"

It was to encourage her to go and do what she wanted to do... and walk across the line, myself.

If I was you, I'd say "Welcome home. Are you still planning on going to Europe? Yes? Do you really think that's the best thing for your life and your marriage right now? OK, have fun. I'm planning on a trip myself the day after you leave, I need some time to go and think about how I want the remainder of my life to be, and what honesty in a relationship means."

And then don't speak a word about it, don't contact her on her trip except for the kids, and go do your own thing for a while after she gets back.

What will likely happen:
#1 she will play the "I need to work when I get back" card. Well, you need to work when she leaves, too.

#2 she will play the "good, you need to get away too and give me a break" card. Shrug and walk away.

#3 "why are you doing this" card. "Because in light of recent behaviour on your part, I need to reassess my life." and walk away.

And -- the big one -- that you likely won't do -- actually go away on your own and decide what you're gonna do.

You're emotional right now. You might feel coldly rational, but you may not actually want to be. What you actually want is to wake her up... not lock her in a cage.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> I doubt that is the way to convince her of the sincerity of this situation.
> 
> 
> And then don't speak a word about it, don't contact her on her trip except for the kids, and go do your own thing for a while after she gets back.
> 
> What will likely happen:
> #1 she will play the "I need to work when I get back" card. Well, you need to work when she leaves, too.
> 
> #2 she will play the "good, you need to get away too and give me a break" card. Shrug and walk away.
> 
> #3 "why are you doing this" card. "Because in light of recent behaviour on your part, I need to reassess my life." and walk away.
> 
> And -- the big one -- that you likely won't do -- actually go away on your own and decide what you're gonna do.
> 
> You're emotional right now. You might feel coldly rational, but you may not actually want to be. What you actually want is to wake her up... not lock her in a cage.


Who is going to take care of the kid if we both leave? If you are saying for me to take the kid, and not tell her where we are going, that seems like a huge mistake that will be held agianst me.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> On a level of severity, she is at 2 on a 10 scale, she thinks this is a simple resolve. " Im sorry" "start over and forget about this"
> 
> I am on a level 10....
> 
> I have no idea how to get her attention to make her understand how much she has already lost, but does not realize it.
> 
> There will be nothing but fighting if she does not understand/comprhend the severity of this.


You want to make an impact on her? You want to get her focused on the marriage? File for divorce and have her served. Nothing will focus her attention so quickly as having a deputy or process server hand her divorce papers. That's when she'll get that sick feeling in the pit of her stomach, that's when she gets the metallic taste in her mouth. That's when this whole thing becomes real, when she's standing there holding her crumbling future in her hands.

Now understand something. I am not telling you to divorce your wife. Divorce is a process, not an event, and the person who files it can cancel it at any time up until the judge signs the final decree. This is, at this point, a tactic to get her full, undivided attention focused where you need it.

There's three ways she may go if you do this. Anger, sniveling, or indifference. If you want to save this marriage, anger or sniveling are the ones you need. If you get indifference it's already a lost cause and you should just go ahead and complete the divorce. For anger or sniveling, too many nuances to go into now. If you get one of those give us a detailed description and we'll go from there.

If you have her served before the Europe trip and she still goes it's a lost cause.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Nucking Futs said:


> You want to make an impact on her? You want to get her focused on the marriage? File for divorce and have her served. Nothing will focus her attention so quickly as having a deputy or process server hand her divorce papers. That's when she'll get that sick feeling in the pit of her stomach, that's when she gets the metallic taste in her mouth. That's when this whole thing becomes real, when she's standing there holding her crumbling future in her hands.
> 
> Now understand something. I am not telling you to divorce your wife. Divorce is a process, not an event, and the person who files it can cancel it at any time up until the judge signs the final decree. This is, at this point, a tactic to get her full, undivided attention focused where you need it.
> 
> There's three ways she may go if you do this. Anger, sniveling, or indifference. If you want to save this marriage, anger or sniveling are the ones you need. If you get indifference it's already a lost cause and you should just go ahead and complete the divorce. For anger or sniveling, too many nuances to go into now. If you get one of those give us a detailed description and we'll go from there.
> 
> If you have her served before the Europe trip and she still goes it's a lost cause.


File for divorce before the trip, if she goes its over is what you are saying? (among other things)


----------



## tom67

NF said...

Now understand something. I am not telling you to divorce your wife. Divorce is a process, not an event, and the person who files it can cancel it at any time up until the judge signs the final decree. This is, at this point, a tactic to get her full, undivided attention focused where you need it.
:iagree::iagree:
Depending on how she reacts when she comes back.
You can always stop it.
Serve her at work.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> Who is going to take care of the kid if we both leave? If you are saying for me to take the kid, and not tell her where we are going, that seems like a huge mistake that will be held agianst me.


I'm saying you go on a trip of your own as soon as possible after she comes home. 

This achieves three things:
1. It knocks the stool out from under her - you're the stool that enables her to sit on you. 
2. It shows her that you are seriously reconsidering your marriage in a profoundly different way than an ultimatum. 
3. She will get a chance to go through what you go through when she leaves. This may get some empathy.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> NF said...
> 
> Now understand something. I am not telling you to divorce your wife. Divorce is a process, not an event, and the person who files it can cancel it at any time up until the judge signs the final decree. This is, at this point, a tactic to get her full, undivided attention focused where you need it.
> :iagree::iagree:
> Depending on how she reacts when she comes back.
> You can always stop it.
> Serve her at work.


THis is going to break her heart.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> I'm saying you go on a trip of your own as soon as possible after she comes home.
> 
> This achieves three things:
> 1. It knocks the stool out from under her - you're the stool that enables her to sit on you.
> 2. It shows her that you are seriously reconsidering your marriage in a profoundly different way than an ultimatum.
> 3. She will get a chance to go through what you go through when she leaves. This may get some empathy.


Oh, my mistake. That might work. Thanks.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> File for divorce before the trip, if she goes its over is what you are saying? (among other things)


I'm not saying that divorce is inevitable if she still goes on that trip. I'm saying that if she has been served with divorce papers and still goes on the trip your relationship is probably not worth saving. It would be evidence that she simply doesn't care enough.


----------



## farsidejunky

Bubbagumps said:


> We have shared and separate.
> Trying to figure out what to tell her to make her understand how far I am. I honestly think she is oblivious.
> I also noticed a huge amount of text messages..... Very tempted to turn that feature to just her family and me.


To whom is she texting?


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> We have shared and separate.
> Trying to figure out what to tell her to make her understand how far I am. I honestly think she is oblivious.
> *I also noticed a huge amount of text messages*..... Very tempted to turn that feature to just her family and me.


Too whom are the texts messages going? Once again, this is not passing the sniff test.


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> To whom?


I do not know


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> I do not know


Find out.


----------



## Bubbagumps

I just sent her " The deception has caused me to reassess our marriage." 

Her reply: 
"I am not trying to be mean, but the punishment hardly fits the crime. And if something this small causes you to reassess then we were worse off than I thought."


----------



## farsidejunky

"I am not okay with you characterizing lying, which has led to me not trusting you, as small."


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I just sent her " The deception has caused me to reassess our marriage."
> 
> Her reply:
> "I am not trying to be mean, but the punishment hardly fits the crime. And if something this small causes you to reassess then we were *worse off than I thought*."


When did your W start believing things are bad off? In other words, has your W been having this feeling for a long time but now see it is worse than she thinks?


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I do not know


Come on Bubba...you need to see who your W is texting continuously. :scratchhead:


----------



## farsidejunky

Or:

"I am not okay with being married to someone who is not truthful. I see trust as the foundation of a marriage, and will not remain in one without it."


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> When did your W start believing things are bad off? In other words, has your W been having this feeling for a long time but now see it is worse than she thinks?


WHen the decided to deceive me on the trips.


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> "I am not okay with you characterizing lying, which has led to me not trusting you, as small."


She replied with "ok"


Not sure what her "ok" reply means?


----------



## farsidejunky

No more texting. No more talking to her. Go dark. Do not answer a single text or call unless it is about the kids.


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> Or:
> 
> "I am not okay with being married to someone who is not truthful. I see trust as the foundation of a marriage, and will not remain in one without it."


I was going to fire this one last text to her before going dark. 
Her 'OK" reply makes no sense.
D Paperwork has been stamped.


----------



## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> No more texting. No more talking to her. Go dark. Do not answer a single text or call unless it is about the kids.


:iagree::iagree:
Do the 180 save your sanity go work out when you can make a little time for it.


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubbagumps said:


> THis is going to break her heart.


Ummm... I don't think so. Frankly, it doesn't sound like she cares all that much.


----------



## farsidejunky

And FFS find out who she is texting. Can you pull up the cell phone bill online?


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> And FFS find out who she is texting. Can you pull up the cell phone bill online?


No text is displayed. I have to get a court order for that.
I can turn it off. Then she would have to call the person, then I can see it.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> No text is displayed. I have to get a court order for that.


Bubba...get the number. Find out who the number belongs too. No need to get what the text are about at this point. If she is texting the same person constantly then something is up.


----------



## tom67

farsidejunky said:


> And FFS find out who she is texting. Can you pull up the cell phone bill online?


If you can't because she changed the password tell her to give it to you.
that should be telling.
Verizon shows me EVERY number my d texts to not the content though.


----------



## Yeswecan

tom67 said:


> Verizon shows me EVERY number my d texts to not the content though.


Bingo. Get the number. Investigate who it belongs to.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> If you can't because she changed the password tell her to give it to you.
> that should be telling.
> Verizon shows me EVERY number my d texts to not the content though.


Sprint does not.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Bingo. Get the number. Investigate who it belongs to.


Sent this as my final text in reply to "ok" .----
"I am not okay with being married to someone who is not truthful. I see trust as the foundation of a marriage, and will not remain in one without it."

Going dark.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> I was going to fire this one last text to her before going dark.
> Her 'OK" reply makes no sense.
> D Paperwork has been stamped.


I'm not sure I'm interpreting this post correctly, but if you're saying you're going to tell her about D paperwork, don't. You want her to feel shocked when she gets handed the paperwork, don't give her time to mentally prepare herself for it.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Nucking Futs said:


> I'm not sure I'm interpreting this post correctly, but if you're saying you're going to tell her about D paperwork, don't. You want her to feel shocked when she gets handed the paperwork, don't give her time to mentally prepare herself for it.


I am not telling her anything. I am going to the court, paying the sheriff fee, and having it delivered to her work on Monday. 
I bet she doesnt reply with "ok" when that happens.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Me: 
"I am not okay with being married to someone who is not truthful. I see trust as the foundation of a marriage, and will not remain in one without it."
And Another 
"ok" reply from her...


----------



## farsidejunky

Stop texting. It is weak. She feels the control has shifted. Look at the difference between her blowing up your phone the morning after versus now. Go dark, dude.


----------



## farsidejunky

One other thing. If she ropes you into a conversation on the phone, do not engage.

"I am sorry you feel that way" should be the response to any conversation short of her showing humility.

Never, ever, ever defend how you feel. It is a losing proposition.


----------



## yeah_right

farsidejunky said:


> Stop texting. It is weak. She feels the control has shifted. Look at the difference between her blowing up your phone the morning after versus now. *Go dark, dude*.


Go. Dark. Now.

Proceed with 180. No more talking/texting unless it's about your child.


----------



## farsidejunky

Oh, and another other thing. Keep posting. You are going to ride a roller coaster until she returns, and perhaps worse after confrontation.

When you feel weak, need to vent, or generally need us to give you a pep talk or put your balls in a vice, come here and talk about it. 

Once you start the divorce in motion, YOU CANNOT BLINK. She must not see any semblance of a ***** in your armor, or she will know it is a bluff. You must make sure you are willing to follow through to the end or it is meaningless, and you will actually be much worse off than you are even now.


----------



## happy as a clam

*Ok, I know I'm probably gonna get 2x4'd with this response,* but I just got caught up on this thread and I am simply amazed at how quickly OP is ready to file for divorce.

Filing for divorce on Monday? Because she lied about having some drinks with old friends?

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone the lying AT ALL, but there isn't a shred of evidence that OPs wife is cheating on him! Sure, there's some shadiness and the lying IS terrible -- but why not have a heart-to-heart when she gets back and schedule some marriage counseling? Why file for divorce on Monday?

Plus, women who are cheating and living up the party girl life generally don't want to be pregnant. Maybe I'm missing something here that the rest of you all are seeing... :scratchhead: 

Your original issue when you posted is that you hate the fact that your wife travels for work. And you realize now (through this thread) that it's not the traveling that you hate -- it's your wife's BEHAVIOR when traveling that you hate. Why not try to work this out -- she can switch jobs, find a different career, request for no more travel, or take you along on the trips -- before you file for divorce.

This freight train is moving at warp speed. Holy Smokes!! Something doesn't seem right here...


----------



## Tasorundo

I am with you happy, seems to be moving awfully fast for no new information.


----------



## Yeswecan

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, I know I'm probably gonna get 2x4'd with this response, but I just got caught up on this thread and I am simply amazed at how quickly OP is ready to file for divorce. *I get the feeling there is more to the story that is driving this quick decision.*
> 
> Filing for divorce on Monday? Because she lied about having some drinks with old friends? *See above.*
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I don't condone the lying AT ALL, but there isn't a shred of evidence that OPs wife is cheating on him! *Not the cheating but the lying. Possible she could be cheating though. Numerous texts to a unknown.* Sure, there's some shadiness and the lying IS terrible -- but why not have a heart-to-heart when she gets back and schedule some marriage counseling? *I suggested he let it rest until his W gets home. No dice.* Why file for divorce on Monday? *because he can.*
> 
> Plus, women who are cheating and living up the party girl life generally don't want to be pregnant. *The wanting another child is a bit mystifying at the moment.* Maybe I'm missing something here that the rest of you all are seeing... :scratchhead:
> 
> Your original issue when you posted is that you hate the fact that your wife travels for work. And you realize now (through this thread) that it's not the traveling that you hate -- it's your wife's BEHAVIOR when traveling that you hate. *Big Bingo!* Why not try to work this out -- she can switch jobs, find a different career, request for no more travel, or take you along on the trips -- before you file for divorce.
> 
> This freight train is moving at warp speed. *Toot toot!*


----------



## farsidejunky

And I am not one to advocate for divorce that quickly either. That was with my words of caution regarding it.


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> *Ok, I know I'm probably gonna get 2x4'd with this response,* but I just got caught up on this thread and I am simply amazed at how quickly OP is ready to file for divorce.
> 
> Filing for divorce on Monday? Because she lied about having some drinks with old friends?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I don't condone the lying AT ALL, but there isn't a shred of evidence that OPs wife is cheating on him! Sure, there's some shadiness and the lying IS terrible -- but why not have a heart-to-heart when she gets back and schedule some marriage counseling? Why file for divorce on Monday?
> 
> Plus, women who are cheating and living up the party girl life generally don't want to be pregnant. Maybe I'm missing something here that the rest of you all are seeing... :scratchhead:
> 
> Your original issue when you posted is that you hate the fact that your wife travels for work. And you realize now (through this thread) that it's not the traveling that you hate -- it's your wife's BEHAVIOR when traveling that you hate. Why not try to work this out -- she can switch jobs, find a different career, request for no more travel, or take you along on the trips -- before you file for divorce.
> 
> This freight train is moving at warp speed. Holy Smokes!! Something doesn't seem right here...


Yep, I move fast when threatened.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> Yep, I move fast when threatened.


It may just save your marriage because before this from what you have told us she has zero respect for you or the m.
I hope for the best.


----------



## farsidejunky

The only thing to consider is words versus actions. For example, my wife told me at points that she had zero sexual desire, yet she initiates probably 40% of the time. Thing is, she speaks what she feels "in the moment".

If his wife is the same, her words may be hurtful but her actions may be different. 

Watch what she does, not what she says.


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubbagumps said:


> Yep, I move fast when threatened.


Ok, but why not consider exploring treatment for your anxiety, your insecurity, and feeling trapped -- before you make such a huge decision like divorcing your wife: 



Bubbagumps said:


> ...I do get very *anxious* when she travels.
> 
> ...but I just want to remove the travel, its the biggest problem other than *my insecurity*.
> 
> ...I am at a total loss of what to do. *I feel trapped* and like the marriage is falling apart for no real reason.


Anxiety and insecurity can cause false beliefs about issues and you may be way off the mark because you aren't seeing them clearly. Perhaps counseling would be helpful before you chuck it all.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> It may just save your marriage because before this from what you have told us she has zero respect for you or the m.
> I hope for the best.


Make no mistake, if she comes back and can fully explain evertyhing, and gives up travel, I will give her much respect. If she travels, it compounds the issue. I cannot end up in the hospital agian.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Yep, I move fast when threatened.


As I suggested yesterday, you will not resolve this via text messages. It appears your W is exhausted with the entire ordeal hence the "ok" response. In my world when my W says that...she is done talking about it as the talk is not productive to a resolution. Again, texting messages leaves out the human physical response as well as the voice intonations. You should let this rest and pick it up upon your W return.


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, but why not consider exploring treatment for your anxiety, your insecurity, and feeling trapped -- before you make such a huge decision like divorcing your wife.
> 
> 
> 
> Anxiety and insecurity can cause false beliefs about issues and you may be way off the mark because you aren't seeing them clearly.
> 
> Just a suggestion.


Because My anxiety was intuit. And she has proved that my spidey senses were right. We now KNOW she was lying, we dont know why. My anxiety is her actions. My response to her drunken lieing fest was hurt, becuase Imagination will travel unknown bounds.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> As I suggested yesterday, you will not resolve this via text messages. It appears your W is exhausted with the entire ordeal hence the "ok" response. In my world when my W says that...she is done talking about it as the talk is not productive to a resolution. Again, texting messages leaves out the human physical response as well as the voice intonations. You should let this rest and pick it up upon your W return.


You are right. I could be this, my mistake. 
Or she could actually understand that I really serious. 
Your scenario is most likely, as she cannot say anything about it.


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubbagumps said:


> Because My anxiety was intuit. And she has proved that my spidey senses were right. We now KNOW she was lying, we dont know why. My anxiety is her actions. My response to her drunken lieing fest was hurt, becuase Imagination will travel unknown bounds.


Ok, I understand. But I completely agree with Yeswecan -- this cannot be resolved by text message. And filing for divorce on Monday seems HUGELY out of proportion to the "crime" of telling a lie and getting drunk. If that's your line in the sand, fine. You're entitled to remain married or get divorced as you wish. But consider that you have a child involved too before pulling the plug over something that could probably be resolved through a face-to-face conversation. And some therapy thrown in there too.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> You are right. I could be this, my mistake.
> Or she could actually understand that I really serious.
> Your scenario is most likely, as she cannot say anything about it.


Until then, get the phone bill and check to see what number your W is texting continuously. Investigate who the number belongs too.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps, do you believe your wife's primary motivation is doing what's right for the family? Advancing her career? Having fun? What's driving her, in your opinion?


----------



## yeah_right

I'm a woman and if I'm in a texting debate/argument that I care about, I do not stop with "ok". To me, that's more of a guy thing...dismissive. Again, I do not know this woman and can't presume to know what she's thinking. It's just that to me, some of her responses have seemed odd to me. Their discussion of this topic needs to end until they are face to face. 

Bubbagumps - any idea how she spent her time last night?


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubbagumps said:


> Yep, I move fast when *threatened.*


But that's exactly what anxiety is -- that "threatened" fight-or-flight feeling!

If you have an anxiety disorder, that can drive feelings of being threatened or boxed into a corner. It's often driven by false beliefs. Again, you state in your first post that you have anxiety.


----------



## GusPolinski

happy as a clam said:


> *Ok, I know I'm probably gonna get 2x4'd with this response,* but I just got caught up on this thread and I am simply amazed at how quickly OP is ready to file for divorce.


Agreed.



happy as a clam said:


> Filing for divorce on Monday? Because she lied about having some drinks with old friends?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I don't condone the lying AT ALL, but there isn't a shred of evidence that OPs wife is cheating on him! Sure, there's some shadiness and the lying IS terrible -- but why not have a heart-to-heart when she gets back and schedule some marriage counseling? Why file for divorce on Monday?
> 
> Plus, women who are cheating and living up the party girl life generally don't want to be pregnant. Maybe I'm missing something here that the rest of you all are seeing... :scratchhead:
> 
> Your original issue when you posted is that you hate the fact that your wife travels for work. And you realize now (through this thread) that it's not the traveling that you hate -- it's your wife's BEHAVIOR when traveling that you hate. Why not try to work this out -- she can switch jobs, find a different career, request for no more travel, or take you along on the trips -- before you file for divorce.


Based on the info that OP has provided, his wife has been displaying a rather disturbing pattern of behavior for some time now. It's not so much that she's away from home for work as often as she is, it's that _she's *voluntarily* away from home as often as she is_... and possibly under false pretenses.

I've done quite a bit of work-related travel over the years, much of it for conferences and offsite training. And lemme just tell ya... there ain't much learnin' going on when the booze is flowin' as freely as it seems to be hyah! (That's "here" for you Yankees...  )

And why lie about having drinks in the hotel lobby if where she's at is on the level?

Anyway, now she's brought up wanting to have another kid...?

Maybe I've spent too much time in CWI, but to me this whole thing smacks of a possibly wayward wife prepping her husband for the idea that he may soon be raising another little one on his own.

Namely, the one that she's already carrying.



happy as a clam said:


> This freight train is moving at warp speed. Holy Smokes!! Something doesn't seem right here...


Again, agreed.


----------



## Nucking Futs

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, I understand. But I completely agree with Yeswecan -- this cannot be resolved by text message. And filing for divorce on Monday seems HUGELY out of proportion to the "crime" of telling a lie and getting drunk. If that's your line in the sand, fine. You're entitled to remain married or get divorced as you wish. But consider that you have a child involved too before pulling the plug over something that could probably be resolved through a face-to-face conversation. And some therapy thrown in there too.


She has thrown up red flags for cheating. She's lied in counseling about his drinking, and interrupted and prevented him from talking in counseling. She hides the trips until the last minute to prevent him from accompanying her, even though they could easily afford it. Even if she's not cheating, and I'd bet good money she is, she's displaying enough disrespect for her husband that something has to be done about it, and counseling appears to be just another method for her to denigrate him.

And by the way, her lying about where she's going to be partying is not her only deception. I consider her hiding the trips until the last minute to be as deceptive as saying something untrue.

Who she is texting is a biggie. If it's her mother it's one thing, if it's some guy it's another.


----------



## Nucking Futs

GusPolinski said:


> Anyway, now she's brought up wanting to have another kid...?
> 
> *Maybe I've spent too much time in CWI, but to me this whole thing smacks of a possibly wayward wife prepping her husband for the idea that he may soon be raising another little one on his own.
> 
> Namely, the one that she's already carrying.
> *


QFT


----------



## farsidejunky

yeah_right said:


> Bubbagumps - any idea how she spent her time last night?


I would really like to know this as well.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Nucking Futs said:


> Bubbagumps, do you believe your wife's primary motivation is doing what's right for the family? Advancing her career? Having fun? What's driving her, in your opinion?


Career, and now Fun.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Nucking Futs said:


> QFT


not preggo, not be me. Also its that time of the month...


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> I'm a woman and if I'm in a texting debate/argument that I care about, I do not stop with "ok". To me, that's more of a guy thing...dismissive. Again, I do not know this woman and can't presume to know what she's thinking. It's just that to me, some of her responses have seemed odd to me. Their discussion of this topic needs to end until they are face to face.
> 
> Bubbagumps - any idea how she spent her time last night?


Yes. She left me a voicemail and stated from here out she would be transparent. She said she would send me the name of the restraunt, and call me when she was back to the hotel. Time line was correct based on travel time.

There was remorse in her voice, she was reading what she left on the voicemail, had all day to think about it. I think the dagger was when my kid did not say "I love you" to her on the phone. 
IMO my wife has something wrong, maybe its her sister having a kid tommorrow.. maybe its the huge mess up that she admited to in the voicemail. Maybe she wants everything, and it is slowly becoming a reality that I am not the problem....That she is becoming her mother, who she despises.


----------



## Chaparral

Would your wife drink if she knew or thought she might be pregnant?

Have you called Sprint about your bill? Tell them you don't think the charges are right and you want to know the numbers called and when they were called.

Telling you when it was to late to go on the trip could have been to make sure you didn't mess up her plans. Do you ever travel with her though? It may have just been to keep from hearing you b!tch about her travel.


----------



## Chaparral

Get your text message usage details

Check out this link


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, I would be doing a full search of her closet, house , car etc.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Chaparral said:


> Would your wife drink if she knew or thought she might be pregnant?
> *She is not pregnant, she would not drink. *
> 
> Have you called Sprint about your bill? Tell them you don't think the charges are right and you want to know the numbers called and when they were called.
> 
> Telling you when it was to late to go on the trip could have been to make sure you didn't mess up her plans. Do you ever travel with her though? It may have just been to keep from hearing you b!tch about her travel.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> Career, and now Fun.


If her priorities are truly #1 Career, #2 having fun, #3 family in that order then she's probably not a keeper anyway. 

I suspect she'd be quick to dispute this ordering, it's something to talk about in counseling. If you do talk about this with her make sure you get through to her that words mean nothing, you're basing this on observed behavior.



Bubbagumps said:


> not preggo, not be me.


So I've tried several times to ask the question I really want you to answer in some inoffensive way, but couldn't. *So I'll ask instead, how do you know she's not pregnant now?

*ETA: Never mind, I see you answered while I was typing.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Chaparral said:


> Get your text message usage details
> 
> Check out this link


and date/time the message was sent and received. The report does not include the content of the message.


----------



## Dogbert

No virtual 2X4 from me happy - maybe just a virtual zombie runnin' after ya 



happy as a clam said:


> Plus, women who are cheating and living up the party girl life generally don't want to be pregnant. Maybe I'm missing something here that the rest of you all are seeing... :scratchhead:


Yeah that is weird that she would say that. Who knows, maybe she said it without meaning it or hoping that her husband, the OP, would take it as a sign that she was going to come home. Throw him a bone to keep him happy so to speak.

She seems not too worried that the OP will divorce her. Maybe what she needs is to have those divorce papers served to her to appreciate the magnitude of his dissatisfaction and ready to become a WAH.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> and date/time the message was sent and received. The report does not include the content of the message.


No one is telling you to get the content of the messages, we're trying to get you to get the number the messages are being sent to.


----------



## farsidejunky

Content is not what you are looking for. One particular phone number with an excessive number of texts is.


----------



## Chaparral

Bubbagumps said:


> and date/time the message was sent and received. The report does not include the content of the message.


If you have the numbers, texting an affair partner usually coincides with certain times of the day, odd hours, right before/after work. A lot of texts to one or two numbers. If so Google the number, and check out white pages, spokeo.com etc. If no info on the number comes up its probably a burner number.

I'm not saying she's cheating but like its been mentioned many red flags flying.

Another big clue is if your sex life has changed lately or in the last few years. Either more or less.


----------



## yeah_right

Name From Phone :: Home


----------



## Bubbagumps

Chaparral said:


> Get your text message usage details
> 
> Check out this link


Done


----------



## Marduk

Dude, chill. 

You need some time and distance so you can make a decision based on reason, not fear. 

You will live with this outcome for a long, long time.


----------



## naiveonedave

Dogbert said:


> No virtual 2X4 from me happy - maybe just a virtual zombie runnin' after ya
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that is weird that she would say that. Who knows, maybe she said it without meaning it or hoping that her husband, the OP, would take it as a sign that she was going to come home. Throw him a bone to keep him happy so to speak.
> 
> She seems not too worried that the OP will divorce her. Maybe what she needs is to have those divorce papers served to her to appreciate the magnitude of his dissatisfaction and ready to become a WAH.


or she is worried she is or will get pregnant by the OM.


----------



## Dogbert

It's best if you first tried talking WITH her and not TO her with regards to the business trips that are causing you so much stress. If you find she doesn't want to talk about it, then you can justify your filing because she doesn't care about you nor the marriage.


----------



## convert

Bubbagumps said:


> Make no mistake, if she comes back and can fully explain evertyhing, and gives up travel, I will give her much respect. If she travels, it compounds the issue. I cannot end up in the hospital agian.



and when she gets back ask for the phone.
as another poster said her response will be telling.

she will probably stall until she can delete some texts, then she might hand it to you.

be prepared to run a recover program.


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> I now know she went bar hopping with other males from past jobs.


 You have focused so much on the lying that you have lost sight of the reason that she lied. She did not tell you about this optional trip that she knew about months in advance until it was too late for you to be able to join her, as she did not want you to go, and did not tell you where she was at or who she was with, because her planned intention was to secretly go bar hopping with another man. This whole trip was a set up for her to see this another man who knew that she was going way before you did. She is lying because she is cheating on you. Stop letting it be only about the lying, and focus on her arranging a trip without you to go bar hopping with another man.


----------



## Marduk

Agree with Try, except it might not be cheating at all. 

She could very well be bored in the marriage. 

And husbands can play a role in fixing that. I'm not taking accountability away from her, but that simple thing could be driving the behaviour... Including the lying.


----------



## tom67

marduk said:


> Agree with Try, except it might not be cheating at all.
> 
> She could very we'll be bored in the marriage.
> 
> And husbands can play a role in fixing that. I'm not taking accountability away from her, but that simple thing could be driving the behaviour... Including the lying.


:iagree:
Until he gets the phone number and finds out who it is I'll wait.
On the surface for now it doesn't look good.
When she gets home drop the kiddos off and have the talk.


----------



## convert

farsidejunky said:


> Content is not what you are looking for. One particular phone number with an excessive number of texts is.


agree 
and he can get the content when she gets home, but for now get the number, maybe even call it from an unknown phone or spoof it.


----------



## Dogbert

Keep your emotions in check not just for your health but so that she can see that you are not afraid to move on without her. Explain to her that you are on the verge of filing for divorce because of the present situation. Ask her if she is interested in helping to resolve it. Then let her words dictate your course of action.


----------



## farsidejunky

Dogbert said:


> Keep your emotions in check not just for your health but so that she can see that you are not afraid to move on without her. Explain to her that you are on the verge of filing for divorce because of the present situation. Ask her if she is interested in helping to resolve it. Then let her words dictate your course of action.


When she returns. No interaction for now.


----------



## tom67

Dogbert said:


> Keep your emotions in check not just for your health but so that she can see that you are not afraid to move on without her. Explain to her that you are on the verge of filing for divorce because of the present situation. Ask her if she is interested in helping to resolve it. Then let her words dictate your course of action.


I suggest you take her to a public place like a nice restaurant where both of you will keep your emotions in check unlike at home where thing can escalate.
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## convert

convert said:


> and when she gets back ask for the phone.
> as another poster said her response will be telling.
> 
> she will probably stall until she can delete some texts, then she might hand it to you.
> 
> be prepared to run a recover program.


When she said/text she will give full transparency, I hope she will give you the phone when she gets back.
I would still run a text recovery on it.
you might want to read up on how to do that now.
Gus (a member here) is good at that and may help talk you through it.


----------



## convert

OP, did you get the number yet?

if or when you do, call it from an unknown number and see who answers or what their voice mail says.

OR maybe some others here will have better suggestion on what to do with the number.


----------



## Omar174

happy as a clam said:


> But that's exactly what anxiety is -- that "threatened" fight-or-flight feeling!
> 
> If you have an anxiety disorder, that can drive feelings of being threatened or boxed into a corner. It's often driven by false beliefs. Again, you state in your first post that you have anxiety.


Save your breath, he won't listen. And I'll get my flame suit on for saying this, but I'll speak plainly.

He is paranoid, anxious and delusional. I can only imagine how suffocating his behavior must be to the wife. 

Which is probably what led her to delay telling him about the trip and lie in the first place, to avoid a big fight. 

I don't condone the lying and it definitely blew up in her face, but I'm willing to bet that's her train of thought. 

Hell, I still don't understand why WORK travel is such a big deal. :scratchhead:


----------



## convert

Omar174 said:


> Save your breath, he won't listen. And I'll get my flame suit on for saying this, but I'll speak plainly.
> 
> He is paranoid, anxious and delusional. I can only imagine how suffocating his behavior must be to the wife.
> 
> Which is probably what led her to delay telling him about the trip and lie in the first place, to avoid a big fight.
> 
> I don't condone the lying and it definitely blew up in her face, but I'm willing to bet that's her train of thought.
> 
> Hell, I still don't understand why WORK travel is such a big deal. :scratchhead:


you may be right but I believe the rabbit hole goes deeper here, I hope not


----------



## Dogbert

Omar174 said:


> Hell, I still don't understand why WORK travel is such a big deal. :scratchhead:


Because of the way she planned the "work" travel plans. It leaves a lot to be desired and a lot to speculate about.


----------



## yeah_right

Omar174 said:


> Hell, I still don't understand why WORK travel is such a big deal. :scratchhead:


So it would be no big deal if your wife was on a work trip and called you at 1am after bar-hopping with guys she does not currently work with? 

Not flaming, I genuinely want to know what other men think. I know what I would think if it was my marriage and roles were reversed. But I'm a chick.

Work travel is a part of life for many careers. It's how a married person handles the execution of the trips.


----------



## Omar174

Dogbert said:


> Because of the way she planned the "work" travel plans. It leaves a lot to be desired and a lot to speculate about.


I said in my post I don't condone her behavior in lying and the delay in telling him about the trip. 

I believe it's her way of trying to avoid a huge fight with a person who probably suffocates her to no end. She is just trying to cope. 

Not sure if any of you have had experience with someone like that, but that sh1t gets old real quick.


----------



## Omar174

yeah_right said:


> So it would be no big deal if your wife was on a work trip and called you at 1am after bar-hopping with guys she does not currently work with?
> 
> Not flaming, I genuinely want to know what other men think. I know what I would think if it was my marriage and roles were reversed. But I'm a chick.
> 
> Work travel is a part of life for many careers. It's how a married person handles the execution of the trips.


My wife tells me about it in advance. And it doesn't bother me one bit because I trust her and don't suffocate her about it. 

It just so happens she is on a work trip as we speak and I'm home with both our kids. She went out last night with coworkers. In the past she has met with old friends. I didn't lose a second of sleep over it because I've done the same thing. It's NORMAL for some careers to require travel. I do it, my coworkers do it. 

What's the big deal?


----------



## yeah_right

OP's wife admitted to going drinking with guy(s) she does not work with...former co-worker(s) who happened to be in the same area. It was not part of the actual work trip.

And if you and your wife are both cool with going out way past dinner with OSF's, after the work meetings have ended for the night, then that's fine. Couples should establish mutual boundaries.


----------



## Dogbert

Omar174 said:


> My wife tells me about it in advance. And it doesn't bother me one bit because I trust her and don't suffocate her about it.
> 
> It just so happens she is on a work trip as we speak and I'm home with both our kids. She went out last night with coworkers. I didn't lose a second of sleep over it. It's NORMAL for some careers to require travel. I do it, my coworkers do it.
> 
> What's the big deal?


There are quite a few men and women here on these forums whose husbands and wives used their work trips to engage in extra-marital affairs with fellow co-workers of bosses. They, just like you, trusted their spouses without question UNTIL their spouses left a piece of incriminating evidence which later lead them to further information that proved beyond the shadow of doubt, that their trusted spouses were betraying them during these so called business trips.


----------



## tom67

Omar174 said:


> My wife tells me about it in advance. And it doesn't bother me one bit because I trust her and don't suffocate her about it.
> 
> It just so happens she is on a work trip as we speak and I'm home with both our kids. She went out last night with coworkers. In the past she has met with old friends. I didn't lose a second of sleep over it because I've done the same thing. It's NORMAL for some careers to require travel. I do it, my coworkers do it.
> 
> What's the big deal?


You and your wife have boundaries and trust which is good.
His wife and her lies is a totally different situation and is not healthy at the very least.


----------



## tom67

Omar I hope to God this is nothing don't get me wrong.


----------



## Omar174

Dogbert said:


> There are quite a few men and women here on these forums whose husbands and wives used their work trips to engage in extra-marital affairs with fellow co-workers of bosses. They, just like you, trusted their spouses without question UNTIL their spouses left a piece of incriminating evidence which later lead them to further information that proved beyond the shadow of doubt, that their trusted spouses were betraying them during these so called business trips.


I get that. And I get why these people would be shell shocked and have trust issues. I will also add that I'm not blind to the fact that this could happen to me. Hell, who kows, I may come here and start my own cheating thread some day. 

It's no reason to jump on the bandwagon and feed the OPs anxiety. 

He said himself he has no reason to believe she is cheating.

I've gone back to read his posts over and over again. To me it just seems he has anxiety issues which are leading to irrational behavior.


----------



## TRy

Omar174 said:


> Which is probably what led her to delay telling him about the trip and lie in the first place, to avoid a big fight.
> 
> I don't condone the lying and it definitely blew up in her face, but I'm willing to bet that's her train of thought.


 She delayed tell him because she did not want him to go. Her train of thought was that she did not want her husband with her when she spent the week with and went bar hopping with another man. 



Omar174 said:


> Hell, I still don't understand why WORK travel is such a big deal. :scratchhead:


 This was not a work trip. This was her voluntarily choosing to go to a conference where she would be able to see and spend time with another man.


----------



## Marduk

Omar174 said:


> I said in my post I don't condone her behavior in lying and the delay in telling him about the trip.
> 
> I believe it's her way of trying to avoid a huge fight with a person who probably suffocates her to no end. She is just trying to cope.
> 
> Not sure if any of you have had experience with someone like that, but that sh1t gets old real quick.


That could very well be a component. 

Any number of things might be happening. From sheer boredom all the way to cheating. Odds are its something more benign, I'm thinking. 

The point is that her behaviour has changed and the reason driving that needs to be understood and examined to determine his future course of action. 

The red flag is the change in behaviour and lying. Even if it is relatively benign, that's not a good course to be on without having the headlights down the road paying attention to where the marriage is going.


----------



## tom67

TRy said:


> She delayed tell him because she did not want him to go. Her train of thought was that she did not want her husband with her when she spent the week with and went bar hopping with another man.
> 
> This was not a work trip. This was her voluntarily choosing to go to a conference where she would be able to see and spend time with another man.


This^^^ plus texting someone a lot I mean really.


----------



## Omar174

tom67 said:


> You and your wife have boundaries and trust which is good.
> His wife and her lies is a totally different situation and is not healthy at the very least.


I completely agree that the lying wrong. 

I'm just saying it's her misguided way of coping with his behavior.


----------



## yeah_right

I'm curious. Guys on this thread...let's forget the OP's anxieties and forget that she did not tell him in advance or that she lied about location. Let's assume it's a normal, routine work trip...

If your wife calls you at 1am, intoxicated, and says she's been bar hopping with man/men she used to work with, who happened to be traveling to the same area...how would you feel?


----------



## Dogbert

Omar174 said:


> I get that. And I get why these people would be shell shocked and have trust issues.
> 
> It's no reason to jump on the bandwagon and feed the OPs anxiety.
> 
> He said himself he has no reason to believe she is cheating.


Perhaps but denial of that possibility just because she's "not that type of person" is dangerous.


----------



## naiveonedave

yeah_right said:


> I'm curious. Guys on this thread...let's forget the OP's anxieties and forget that she did not tell him in advance or that she lied about location. Let's assume it's a normal, routine work trip...
> 
> If your wife calls you at 1am, intoxicated, and says she's been bar hopping with man/men she used to work with, who happened to be traveling to the same area...how would you feel?


No one really should be up after midnight on a work trip, so I would be somewhat concerned. If my wife had frequent work trips, I think we would have to have some boundary discussions. Especially if she wanted to hang out with people who she didn't have to for work reasons. That is the risk, these other guys are not mandatory. She is seeing them for 'fun' and that is where the boundaries start to fall apart, imo.


----------



## convert

convert said:


> OP, did you get the number yet?
> 
> if or when you do, call it from an unknown number and see who answers or what their voice mail says.
> 
> OR maybe some others here will have better suggestion on what to do with the number.


To the other members here what would be the first thing you would do when you got the phone number?


----------



## Omar174

Dogbert said:


> Perhaps but denial of that possibility just because she's "not that type of person" is dangerous.


I wen't back and edited my post. I added that I'm not blind to the possibility. 

In our 20 years together, we've never given each other reasons to lack trust, that's all. 

But that's neither here nor there as it pertains to this thread.


----------



## Yeswecan

yeah_right said:


> I'm curious. Guys on this thread...let's forget the OP's anxieties and forget that she did not tell him in advance or that she lied about location. Let's assume it's a normal, routine work trip...
> 
> If your wife calls you at 1am, intoxicated, and says she's been bar hopping with man/men she used to work with, who happened to be traveling to the same area...how would you feel?


I can tell you with absolute certainty you will never find my W at a bar, 0100 and with a old COW. Just not in her nature. I can assure you she would be at her hotel room texting or talking on the phone with me until bedtime.


----------



## tom67

convert said:


> To the other members here what would be the first thing you would do when you got the phone number?


First I would do the old reverse lookup and/or use spokeo or some have said to look it up on facebook.
I'll leave that for the experts which I am not.


----------



## Dogbert

Omar174 said:


> I wen't back and edited my post. I added that I'm not blind to the possibility.
> 
> In our 20 years together, we've never given each other reasons to lack trust, that's all.
> 
> But that's neither here nor there as it pertains to this thread.


It looks like you and your wife are two happy and healthy adults who care for one another.


----------



## Omar174

Dogbert said:


> It looks like you and your wife are two happy and healthy adults who care for one another.


Again, I don't want to derail this thread. I only used my situation as an example that work trips are the norm for some careers. And yes, sometimes you volunteer for trips, and sometimes you go to conferences, all in the name of advancing. 

Believe me, I'm not on this board because I have a perfect marriage.


----------



## Yeswecan

convert said:


> To the other members here what would be the first thing you would do when you got the phone number?


I certainly do not call it. The internet is a powerful tool if you use it correctly. There are plenty of sites for a few bucks that will find out who the number belongs too. If all else fails... place a call.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Agree with Try, except it might not be cheating at all.
> 
> She could very well be bored in the marriage.
> 
> And husbands can play a role in fixing that. I'm not taking accountability away from her, but that simple thing could be driving the behaviour... Including the lying.


I was using our shared laptop and did a ctrl-v and it said " you sent that via msngr, not sms"


----------



## Bubbagumps

Omar174 said:


> Save your breath, he won't listen. And I'll get my flame suit on for saying this, but I'll speak plainly.
> 
> He is paranoid, anxious and delusional. I can only imagine how suffocating his behavior must be to the wife.
> 
> Which is probably what led her to delay telling him about the trip and lie in the first place, to avoid a big fight.
> 
> I don't condone the lying and it definitely blew up in her face, but I'm willing to bet that's her train of thought.
> 
> Hell, I still don't understand why WORK travel is such a big deal. :scratchhead:


Paranoid, not really. Observant yes. 
Anxious, yes, more now than before
Delusional, maybe I do not think she is cheating. 

The delay no longer holds up. The lying was a house of cards that toppled all the other lies.


----------



## tom67

The lying was a house of cards that toppled all the other lies. 

Bubba when the trust is gone it is a deal breaker for many here.

Any headway with the number?
PM Gus I'm a dummy with that stuff.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Omar174 said:


> My wife tells me about it in advance. And it doesn't bother me one bit because I trust her and don't suffocate her about it.
> 
> It just so happens she is on a work trip as we speak and I'm home with both our kids. She went out last night with coworkers. In the past she has met with old friends. I didn't lose a second of sleep over it because I've done the same thing. It's NORMAL for some careers to require travel. I do it, my coworkers do it.
> 
> What's the big deal?


Would a woman, who claims that I am not around 90% of the time feel smothered? 
Keep in mind, I had no problem with her going out to "let her food settle" (but that did not happen)I also have had no problems with other trips. 
I do have a problem with her telling me "its not like we are going to paint the town red, just going to relax in the lounge" Then to literally go out and paint the town red..... 
What was the purpose of that? It make no sense at all.


----------



## Marduk

what do you need here, man?

Do you need help exiting your marriage, or help giving a wake up call to your wife?

If it's the former, I'm out. What she did is destabilize your marriage, and not enough to warrent you assuming the worst and throwing in the towel.

Lying is bad. A one time lie to go blow off some steam and have fun without you breathing down her neck is a whole different ball game than her lying so she can go have a fling with a former co-worker.

Take the big picture into account here and find out the why and the what more before you get to the 'do.'


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> The lying was a house of cards that toppled all the other lies.
> 
> Bubba when the trust is gone it is a deal breaker for many here.
> 
> Any headway with the number?
> PM Gus I'm a dummy with that stuff.


Sent the request over to sprint. have to wait for them. they suck...


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> what do you need here, man?
> 
> Do you need help exiting your marriage, or help giving a wake up call to your wife?
> 
> If it's the former, I'm out. What she did is destabilize your marriage, and not enough to warrent you assuming the worst and throwing in the towel.
> 
> Lying is bad. A one time lie to go blow off some steam and have fun without you breathing down her neck is a whole different ball game than her lying so she can go have a fling with a former co-worker.
> 
> Take the big picture into account here and find out the why and the what more before you get to the 'do.'


I am going to get the facts, study them. I am going to find out the real reason she lied. I am not communicating with her until she is back, face to face. 
After we talk, I will take everything, write down Positives and negatives. Weigh them. Make decision.


----------



## Marduk

Oh...

And how does she act when she's at home?

Before she left, I mean?

Secretive? Hiding her phone? 

Any comments or body language that leads you to indicate that she's bored?

Has she tried to engage you in date nights, couple's trips, anything of that sort?


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Would a woman, who claims that I am not around 90% of the time feel smothered?
> Keep in mind, I had no problem with her going out to "let her food settle" (but that did not happen)I also have had no problems with other trips.
> I do have a problem with her telling me "its not like we are going to paint the town red, just going to relax in the lounge" *Then to literally go out and paint the town red..... *
> What was the purpose of that? It make no sense at all.


Understand the standard answer will be, "I just got caught up in it and I did not mean for it happen." We here at TAM know it is a choice. The choice was made to paint the town red. And why? Because Bubba was just fed a lie.


----------



## Omar174

Bubbagumps said:


> Would a woman, who claims that I am not around 90% of the time feel smothered?
> Keep in mind, I had no problem with her going out to "let her food settle" (but that did not happen)I also have had no problems with other trips.
> I do have a problem with her telling me "its not like we are going to paint the town red, just going to relax in the lounge" Then to literally go out and paint the town red.....
> What was the purpose of that? It make no sense at all.


Bubba, sorry if I'm coming off as an ass. 

It's just my honest opinion from reading some of your posts. For me, it just points to that possibility. I think your wife is misguided. But I also think you should take a deep breath and really do your best to figure out what led to the behavior. 

I'm not making excuses for her, just keep in mind we are all human and she made a mistake. Do you really want to blow up your lives because of it?


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> I am going to get the facts, study them. I am going to find out the real reason she lied. I am not communicating with her until she is back, face to face.
> After we talk, I will take everything, write down Positives and negatives. Weigh them. Make decision.


OK good.

Now go dark until she gets back. Gus has some stuff on dumping her iphone data without having to touch it if you need to.

Fair warning, I did that once, and still feel conflicted about it, even though I think it was what I had to do.

And pull out of this nose dive you're in, brother. I know how you feel. I've been exactly where you've been and it feels like your walls are collapsing in around you and she's a million miles away treating you like a fool. Powerless, anxious, fearful, seeking strength in action. I get it.

With what you know right now, your marriage is in trouble. But what you don't know is that it's over... and you need to stop broadcasting that to your wife.

Consider this possability: she's a bored wife who has her nice husband at home taking care of her kid... and she gets free plane tickets and expense accounts to go have (innocent?) fun.

She feels she wouldn't hold you back from that opportunity, which is why I think you should do a trip of your own, to test that assumption.

And she gets caught up with some friends that want to go out for dinner, and they decide to go for drinks and have fun... and she likes to have fun and catch up, too. Their spouses are cool with it, why isn't hers? Oh, mine will freak out but he's far away, what's this little lie that lets him feel safe, because it's all innocent, and I still get to have innocent fun?

That's what very well could be at play here. Which is more indicative of her being bored and unfulfilled and maybe even since she wants one more kid, she knows she'll have to give it all up...

If that's what's happening, you have a huge role here to step up and take accountability for your piece of the pie, too. She lied. That's bad. The reason she lied needs to be fixed, and part of that might very well be on you. And might be a combination of some very tough, but neccessary conversations on both your part so she can regain your trust, have transparency, and maybe, just maybe, YOU can give her what she's seeking rather than the boys at the conferences can.

It was amazing how little my wife wanted to start going out with her friends when I started taking her out with regularity -- and have it be exciting and fun.


----------



## tom67

marduk said:


> Oh...
> 
> And how does she act when she's at home?
> 
> Before she left, I mean?
> 
> Secretive? Hiding her phone?
> 
> Any comments or body language that leads you to indicate that she's bored?
> 
> Has she tried to engage you in date nights, couple's trips, anything of that sort?


This above is important.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Oh...
> 
> And how does she act when she's at home?
> 
> Before she left, I mean?
> 
> Secretive? Hiding her phone?
> 
> Any comments or body language that leads you to indicate that she's bored?
> 
> Has she tried to engage you in date nights, couple's trips, anything of that sort?


She has been acting wierd, but I dont know what is causing it. She doesnt hide her phone, but she keeps it on her. I honestly think its because she wants another kid, a career and a husband, but she knows she is failing at maintaining all 3 to be perfect. 

Bored... maybe... she did say before she was leaving she was going to get shades of grey. 

Couples nights, nope, date nights, nope.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> She has been acting wierd, but I dont know what is causing it. She doesnt hide her phone, but she keeps it on her. I honestly think its because she wants another kid, a career and a husband, but she knows she is failing at maintaining all 3 to be perfect.
> 
> Bored... maybe... she did say before she was leaving she was going to get shades of grey.
> 
> Couples nights, nope, date nights, nope.


Need more data, man.

You're being very ambigous outside of this situation.

When you try to take her out for a night on the town what happens?


----------



## Dogbert

She treats you as her child's nanny, not as her husband.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> OK good.
> 
> Now go dark until she gets back. Gus has some stuff on dumping her iphone data without having to touch it if you need to.
> 
> Fair warning, I did that once, and still feel conflicted about it, even though I think it was what I had to do.
> 
> And pull out of this nose dive you're in, brother. I know how you feel. I've been exactly where you've been and it feels like your walls are collapsing in around you and she's a million miles away treating you like a fool. Powerless, anxious, fearful, seeking strength in action. I get it.
> 
> With what you know right now, your marriage is in trouble. But what you don't know is that it's over... and you need to stop broadcasting that to your wife.
> 
> Consider this possability: she's a bored wife who has her nice husband at home taking care of her kid... and she gets free plane tickets and expense accounts to go have (innocent?) fun.
> 
> She feels she wouldn't hold you back from that opportunity, which is why I think you should do a trip of your own, to test that assumption.
> 
> And she gets caught up with some friends that want to go out for dinner, and they decide to go for drinks and have fun... and she likes to have fun and catch up, too. Their spouses are cool with it, why isn't hers? Oh, mine will freak out but he's far away, what's this little lie that lets him feel safe, because it's all innocent, and I still get to have innocent fun?
> 
> That's what very well could be at play here. Which is more indicative of her being bored and unfulfilled and maybe even since she wants one more kid, she knows she'll have to give it all up...
> 
> If that's what's happening, you have a huge role here to step up and take accountability for your piece of the pie, too. She lied. That's bad. The reason she lied needs to be fixed, and part of that might very well be on you. And might be a combination of some very tough, but neccessary conversations on both your part so she can regain your trust, have transparency, and maybe, just maybe, YOU can give her what she's seeking rather than the boys at the conferences can.
> 
> It was amazing how little my wife wanted to start going out with her friends when I started taking her out with regularity -- and have it be exciting and fun.


She said she lied because she felt bad because she went there to party and I was stuck at home alone.


----------



## Marduk

Dogbert said:


> She treats you as her child's nanny, not as her husband.


Or he became the nanny and she's responding to that.


----------



## tom67

Dogbert said:


> She treats you as her child's nanny, not as her husband.


Pretty much.
Please don't tell me she does "girls night out" often.
Anyway.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Need more data, man.
> 
> You're being very ambigous outside of this situation.
> 
> When you try to take her out for a night on the town what happens?


I did not mean to be ambigous. We do not go out on the town. We are a very very boring couple. We have not been out in years. We have people over vs going out.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> She said she lied because she felt bad because she went there to party and I was stuck at home alone.


That actually makes a lot of sense and aligns with her behaviour before and after the trip.

NOW you need to answer:

#1 why does she want to party instead of be at home with you and her kid (and be honest here, I suspect you actually already know the answer to this one)

#2 why she doesn't want you to be there partying with her (again, some introspection here dude, I suspect you know the answer)

#3 who all those texts were to

#4 how well were you managing your side of this marriage before this happened

#5 when did it all change?


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Pretty much.
> Please don't tell me she does "girls night out" often.
> Anyway.


She has no friends that are girls. So nope that does not happen.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> I did not mean to be ambigous. We do not go out on the town. We are a very very boring couple. We have not been out in years. We have people over vs going out.


Dude if I had a rubber mallet I would hit you on the head with it.

YOU'RE BORING HER! GO ROMANCE AND EXCITE YOUR WIFE!

She just put up a damn billboard with flashing lights on it that said that!

Note: I'm not excusing her behaviour. She f'd up, pure and simple.


----------



## tom67

If you can resolve this you have to date your wife again.
Once a week date night.
Find a way.


----------



## Nucking Futs

marduk said:


> Dude if I had a rubber mallet I would hit you on the head with it.
> 
> YOU'RE BORING HER! GO ROMANCE AND EXCITE YOUR WIFE!
> 
> She just put up a damn billboard with flashing lights on it that said that!
> 
> Note: I'm not excusing her behaviour. She f'd up, pure and simple.


You seem pretty sure she's not cheating despite the red flags. Why?


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> That actually makes a lot of sense and aligns with her behaviour before and after the trip.
> 
> NOW you need to answer:
> 
> #1
> I dont know, I would have loved to go spend time with her. She dug in her heels and maybe overlooked what she was doing, and how it looked. (yes she is that stubborn, and I can be to)
> #2
> Maybe I am dense, but I do not know. see above
> 
> #3 I will let you know. I do not know.
> 
> #4 Everything was fine until this cluster came up. We both agreed on that in consiling last friday.
> 
> #5 Pt 1. the short notice on this trip, part 2 when she lied.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> If you can resolve this you have to date your wife again.
> Once a week date night.
> Find a way.


100% agree, and so did she last friday at consoling.


----------



## Marduk

Nucking Futs said:


> You seem pretty sure she's not cheating despite the red flags. Why?


I'm assuming best intentions.

Trust but verify.

My gut says she's not.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> 100% agree, and so did she last friday at consoling.


Explain, please?


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> marduk said:
> 
> 
> 
> That actually makes a lot of sense and aligns with her behaviour before and after the trip.
> 
> NOW you need to answer:
> 
> #1
> I dont know, I would have loved to go spend time with her. She dug in her heels and maybe overlooked what she was doing, and how it looked. (yes she is that stubborn, and I can be to)
> #2
> Maybe I am dense, but I do not know. see above
> 
> #3 I will let you know. I do not know.
> 
> #4 Everything was fine until this cluster came up. We both agreed on that in consiling last friday.
> 
> #5 Pt 1. the short notice on this trip, part 2 when she lied.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're staying in this, you need to turn all those "I don't knows" into answers... and with #1 -- you need to be honest with yourself.
> 
> She didn't want you to come because she wanted to have fun. Ergo, in her mind, you're no fun.
> 
> Fix that, fix the trust, fix her need/desire to lie to you, and you could make a go of it.
> 
> And this didn't just happen out of the blue. It never does.
Click to expand...


----------



## Bubbagumps

Nucking Futs said:


> You seem pretty sure she's not cheating despite the red flags. Why?


you know what, I do not know. Let me ponder this.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I did not mean to be ambigous. We do not go out on the town. We are a very very boring couple. We have not been out in years. We have people over vs going out.


For the love of Heaven, start taking your W out on dates.


----------



## tom67

marduk said:


> I'm assuming best intentions.
> 
> Trust but verify.
> 
> My gut says she's not.


NF is right but I like covering every scenario until he gets the info from sprint.
ANYTHING is possible.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Explain, please?


We went to consoling and discussed that we were were too focused on family not each other, she even admitted she was extreamely guilty of putting the kid and work before me. 
I am as much to blame.


----------



## Marduk

Dude...

Assuming she's not having an affair...

Become the guy she'd have an affair with. For her. For your kid. For you.

Some guys here can help you with that. Because you need some help with that.


----------



## tom67

If she isn't cheating I suggest...
Get your parents her parents whoever to watch the kids you meet her at the airport take her out for dinner/drinks and then go to the hotel you made reservations at and have at it.
You don't ask you do.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> We went to consoling and discussed that we were were too focused on family not each other, she even admitted she was extreamely guilty of putting the kid and work before me.
> I am as much to blame.


Dude...

So this whole situation could likely have been avoided by just romancing up your wife... does that sound like a bad thing to have to do? Romance your wife? Terrible, right? 

Horrible evenings at fancy restaraunts or nice bars looking at your wife who dressed up just for you... and the fun that comes after, at home? Boy, that sounds like a horrible waste of time to you?

You realize that, right?

Again, it doesn't make her lying right. It doesn't. 

But it doesn't make your behaviour right, either.


----------



## Nucking Futs

marduk said:


> I'm assuming best intentions.
> 
> Trust but verify.
> 
> My gut says she's not.


My gut disagrees with your gut.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> If she isn't cheating I suggest...
> Get your parents her parents whoever to watch the kids you meet her at the airport take her out for dinner/drinks and then go to the hotel you made reservations at and have at it.
> You don't ask you do.


first lets see if she does what she said she was going to do last night " be transparent and let me know where and what she is doing" 
second reply to my last 2 messages with something besides "ok"


----------



## Marduk

Nucking Futs said:


> My gut disagrees with your gut.


You could be right. Difficult to tell without more data.

I hope you're not right, though. Because if she isn't, he may be able to get this thing back on the rails.

Hell, maybe even if she is, depending on how he feels about that.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> first lets see if she does what she said she was going to do last night " be transparent and let me know where and what she is doing"
> second reply to my last 2 messages with something besides "ok"


No, dude.

The ball is 100% in your court at this point, and you put it there.

Those 5 questions need to be answered man.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Dude...
> 
> So this whole situation could likely have been avoided by just romancing up your wife... does that sound like a bad thing to have to do? Romance your wife? Terrible, right?
> 
> Horrible evenings at fancy restaraunts or nice bars looking at your wife who dressed up just for you... and the fun that comes after, at home? Boy, that sounds like a horrible waste of time to you?
> 
> You realize that, right?
> 
> Again, it doesn't make her lying right. It doesn't.
> 
> But it doesn't make your behaviour right, either.


I am going to mention in the last month we have had alot of love making time.


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> We went to consoling and discussed that we were were too focused on family not each other, she even admitted she was extreamely guilty of putting the kid and work before me.
> I am as much to blame.


 Do not blame yourself for being human. This happens as some point in almost every marriage. It is how you deal with it that matters. Most do not use this as a reason to cheat, but some do.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> I am going to mention in the last month we have had alot of love making time.


Is sex romance? Is sex exitement? Is it getting dressed up and going out? Is it being social?

It may contribute to those things. It may be an outcome of those things. But it isn't those things.

She's broadcasting what she's missing in her marriage. Why aren't you listening?

Would it really be that hard for you to drop your kid off at your parent's, make dinner reservations and a nice joint, make a hotel reservation, buy her a sexy new dress and something sexier to go underneath, and just tell her to put it on and be downstairs in 15 minutes because you're going to go paint the town red then you're going to keep her up all night?

Seems like a win-win scenario to me.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> No, dude.
> 
> The ball is 100% in your court at this point, and you put it there.
> 
> Those 5 questions need to be answered man.


They will be answered when I have more information.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> you know what, I do not know. Let me ponder this.


I believe finding what number she is texting constantly will lead you what is going on.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Is sex romance? Is sex exitement? Is it getting dressed up and going out? Is it being social?
> 
> It may contribute to those things. It may be an outcome of those things. But it isn't those things.
> 
> She's broadcasting what she's missing in her marriage. Why aren't you listening?
> 
> Would it really be that hard for you to drop your kid off at your parent's, make dinner reservations and a nice joint, make a hotel reservation, buy her a sexy new dress and something sexier to go underneath, and just tell her to put it on and be downstairs in 15 minutes because you're going to go paint the town red then you're going to keep her up all night?
> 
> Seems like a win-win scenario to me.


I had exactly 2 nights to correct the situation, both of which we were exhausted from explosive diarrhea from the kid.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> I believe finding what number she is texting constantly will lead you what is going on.


Correct.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> I had exactly 2 nights to correct the situation, both of which we were exhausted from explosive diarrhea from the kid.


The past is the past. Don't kick yourself for the past.

Learn from the past.

Answer the questions. Dig in, find out what's up. Those five questions should be your focus.

If she's not having an affair, you have a serious hole to dig yourself out of. We can help with that.

If she is having a fling, you got some decisions to make.

Me? I think you're going to find a series of texts to a series of people about fun stuff she's going to do at this conference... a bit of a last hurrah before she gets pregnant again. That may be innocent(ish) or not.


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> She said she lied because she felt bad because she went there to party and I was stuck at home alone.


 So she admits that she went on this trip with the intent to party. You were only stuck at home because she did not want you to come on this trip with her. You stated that you would have gladly gone and partied with her had she not kept it as secret from you, but "she went there to party" and "paint the town red" specifically with other men and not you. When exactly do you acknowledge this for what it is?


----------



## tom67

Bubba it's not your fault but in many cases subconsciously women lose respect for a guy who does most of the housework and yes even caring for the kids more.
Again I'm not blaming you!!!
It's time to read Athol's MMSLP and change the dynamic.
Married Man Sex Life Primer
We have been brainwashed as men in the mainstream media to do just the opposite of what women want and desire.
I'll shut up now.


----------



## Marduk

TRy said:


> You were only stuck at home because she did not want you to come on this trip with her. This was a conference and not a work trip, so you could have easily gone. You stated that you would have gladly gone and made a vacation of it with her had she not kept it as secret from you, but "she went there to party" and "paint the town red" specifically with other men and not you. When exactly do you acknowledge this for what it is?


The other men may or may not have anything to do with this.

And she may or may not have done anything with them except go and socialize.

It all could plausibly be explained by her not having excitement, romance, or be able to socialize outside of being a "mom" when with her husband.

That **** gets old, fast.


----------



## GusPolinski

marduk said:


> ...
> 
> Now go dark until she gets back. Gus has some stuff on dumping her iphone data without having to touch it if you need to.
> 
> ...


Too many threads, too little time, and too much to do. Ducking out for now, but anyone feel free to PM if needed for phone stuff.

For now, OP, I'd read, re-read, and then re-re-read pretty much anything everything that marduk contributes to this thread.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> The past is the past. Don't kick yourself for the past.
> 
> Learn from the past.
> 
> Answer the questions. Dig in, find out what's up. Those five questions should be your focus.
> 
> If she's not having an affair, you have a serious hole to dig yourself out of. We can help with that.
> 
> If she is having a fling, you got some decisions to make.
> 
> Me? I think you're going to find a series of texts to a series of people about fun stuff she's going to do at this conference... a bit of a last hurrah before she gets pregnant again. That may be innocent(ish) or not.


This is very probable and the most logical. Keep in mind tommorrow her sister is having 3rd child... she is not here to see it...


----------



## TRy

marduk said:


> The other men may or may not have anything to do with this.


 She chose to plan a trip where she would "party" with other men and not her husband. The other men had everything to do with it. When he reads those texts, want to bet that I am right?



marduk said:


> It all could plausibly be explained by her not having excitement, romance, or be able to socialize outside of being a "mom" when with her husband.


 And it could plausibly be explained that she is seeking the "excitement" and "romance" missing in her marriage with these other men.


----------



## yeah_right

TRy said:


> She chose to plan a trip where she would "party" with other men and not her husband. The other men had everything to do with it. When he reads those texts, want to bet that I am right?
> 
> And it could plausibly be explained that she is seeking the "excitement" and "romance" missing in her marriage with these other men.



If I understand the OP correctly, she did not paint the town red with the co-workers she was with for this work trip. She met up with man/men that she used to work with, who happened to be visiting the same place she was. I'm going to assume (and you know how that goes) that she knew in advance these guys had the same destination, unless it was determined that she just bumped into them randomly in her hotel lobby.

If she did indeed know in advance that she would be meeting the man/men, then yes, her reasons for waiting to tell about the trip and lying about her location, had to do with the mystery former co-worker(s). 

If she hadn't been drunk the other night, would she have even told OP about her night out? We will never know.

ETA - This is not something I would do if I'm simply a bored wife. But I feel like the only woman posting on here so I'd be open to the perspectives of other TAM ladies.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> If I understand the OP correctly, she did not paint the town red with the co-workers she was with for this work trip. She met up with man/men that she used to work with, who happened to be visiting the same place she was. I'm going to assume (and you know how that goes) that she knew in advance these guys had the same destination, unless it was determined that she just bumped into them randomly in her hotel lobby.
> 
> If she did indeed know in advance that she would be meeting the man/men, then yes, her reasons for waiting to tell about the trip and lying about her location, had to do with the mystery former co-worker(s).
> 
> If she hadn't been drunk the other night, would she have even told OP about her night out? We will never know.


Yep. I think she ducked her coworkers, met up with other people. Logic tells me this.


----------



## TRy

yeah_right said:


> If she did indeed know in advance that she would be meeting the man/men, then yes, her reasons for waiting to tell about the trip and lying about her location, had to do with the mystery former co-worker(s).


 The OP stated that she admitted that when she went on this trip "she went there to party", so yes she knew which is why she did not want her husband to go on the trip. Her partying was not something that just happened. It was planned with deliberate intent. The only question now what she did when she partied.


----------



## farsidejunky

Bubbagumps said:


> Yep. I think she ducked her coworkers, met up with other people. Logic tells me this.


Walk that logic dog for me. Because I think you need to reach in order to arrive at that conclusion. The evidence chain is not nearly that clear.


----------



## TRy

@OP: If your wife planned this week long trip without you so that she could spend time with and "party" with another man that she use to work with, is that not what you would call a date? Does your wife think that it is OK for married women to date other men? Again, it is not just about the lying, it is about why she lied.


----------



## tom67

TRy said:


> @OP: If your wife planned this week long trip without you so that she could spend time with and "party" with another man that she use to work with, is that not what you would call a date? Does your wife think that it is OK for married women to date other men? Again, it is not just about the lying, it is about why she lied.


:iagree::iagree:
Hoping for the best but you bring up valid points.


----------



## tom67

Bubba I think you said you were going to visit your SIL with the new baby right?
Will her mother be there also?
Generally let them know what is going on if you have a good relationship with them if you think it will do any good having them talk to her.
That's if you think it's appropiate.


----------



## Marduk

Don't presume.

Get facts.

Until you have the facts, shut the hell up about it, because you're in danger of seeming like a raving lunatic paraniod control freak to her.

This may be a surprise to you, but for most women I know, that's not exactly sexy.


----------



## yeah_right

tom67 said:


> *Bubba I think you said you were going to visit your SIL with the new baby right?*
> Will her mother be there also?
> Generally let them know what is going on if you have a good relationship with them if you think it will do any good having them talk to her.
> That's if you think it's appropiate.


As someone who has personally pushed out multiple children, I'm telling you that tonight is not the night to bring this up. If I was in the hospital after labor and drugs, and my BIL comes in with this issue, I'd probably be super pi$$ed. Objects might be thrown. Timing is everything. 

The first person you need to talk to is your wife...in person.


----------



## yeah_right

marduk said:


> Don't presume.
> 
> Get facts.
> 
> Until you have the facts, shut the hell up about it, because you're in danger of seeming like a raving lunatic paraniod control freak to her.
> 
> This may be a surprise to you, but for most women I know, that's not exactly sexy.



You just described Christian Gray. 

But really, this is good advice.


----------



## Chaparral

Lots of texts but no girlfriends, yet another redflag unless she texts female relatives a lot. Is she close with female relatives?

Unfortunately we see a lot of cheating wives here that do not have many female friends.

Do you know what coworkers she is traveling with? Is it usually the same people?

Has she ever talked about any male coworkers a lot and then abruptly quit talking about them? 

What do you know about the ex coworkers?


----------



## Marduk

yeah_right said:


> You just described Christian Gray.
> 
> But really, this is good advice.


Abs, a private jet, and billions in the bank override all other considerations.

If OP has those things, all bets are off, I guess.


----------



## Marduk

Chaparral said:


> Lots of texts but no girlfriends, yet another redflag unless she texts female relatives a lot. Is she close with female relatives?
> 
> Unfortunately we see a lot of cheating wives here that do not have many female friends.
> 
> Do you know what coworkers she is traveling with? Is it usually the same people?
> 
> Has she ever talked about any male coworkers a lot and then abruptly quit talking about them?
> 
> What do you know about the ex coworkers?


My guess her work life has become her social life, because she doesn't have a social life with her husband or positive social friends.

Which means work is fun and exciting.

Which means home life is not fun and exciting.

Which means...

Well, pretty much this situation.


----------



## Chaparral

Are you familiar with Fifty Shades Of Grey?

Women love it. I've tried reading it and its one of he worse books iv ever tried to read. I read tons and I literally couldn't get through it.


----------



## yeah_right

Chaparral said:


> Are you familiar with Fifty Shades Of Grey?
> 
> Women love it. I've tried reading it and its one of he worse books iv ever tried to read. I read tons and I literally couldn't get through it.


It's the female version of Maxim or Playboy or (insert favorite p0rn site here). We know it's terrible writing.


----------



## tom67

yeah_right said:


> As someone who has personally pushed out multiple children, I'm telling you that tonight is not the night to bring this up. If I was in the hospital after labor and drugs, and my BIL comes in with this issue, I'd probably be super pi$$ed. Objects might be thrown. Timing is everything.
> 
> The first person you need to talk to is your wife...in person.


Good points just visit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

yeah_right said:


> It's the female version of Maxim or Playboy or (insert favorite p0rn site here). We know it's terrible writing.


It certainly gives creedance to the arguement women want to be dominated. Did you struggle getting through the rest of the book? I may give it another try and forego the melatonin. ;-)


----------



## yeah_right

Chaparral said:


> It certainly gives creedance to the arguement women want to be dominated. Did you struggle getting through the rest of the book? I may give it another try and forego the melatonin. ;-)


I read all three, but by the middle of the second book I was skimming the sex scenes because they were dull.

Having fantasies about being dominated is different than wanting it in real life. If some dude I barely know shows up at my work with rope and duct tape, and soon after starts talking about sex contracts and monitoring my food intake....I'm out, bro! I don't care how hot or rich he is. I have no plans to be a victim of some Ted Bundy clone. But if my H wants to do some safe domineering, ok.

So OP, please don't turn all dominant jerk-wad. Can you just be who you were when your wife fell in love with you? We all change through life but at the core you have certain traits that your wife fell for.


----------



## warlock07

Bubbagumps said:


> REPLY:
> pt1: i get that. I get that I lost your trust and I am sorry. Like I said, I messed up, and I'm Sorry
> pt2:
> This whole tip got off to an awful start. Is there any way we can start over?
> 
> ______


Ok, I will be that guy. I am still in page 10. 

your wife shows serious signs of being in an affair. There were several serious red flags that are very common to a person in a affair. You caught her red handed in a lie.


----------



## warlock07

Bubbagumps said:


> I could have gone with her, had she given me a heads up more than 1.5 weeks in advance. She knew about this in January, but waited to tell me.
> Tickets would have been free or dirt cheap (reward points)
> Yes, She admitted to lying. "I dont normally lie to you about these things" she said in a voicemail last night. I wonder what she normally lies to me about?
> 
> Full transparency will be maniditory. I would much rather focus on my kid, than have to worry about a liar.
> I know she will not scrub her Europe trip. She will try to make me into the bad guy by making her choose her job or Family. I did not lie. That ship sailed. She gets to choose her future. If she thinks in 2 weeks she can gain my trust back, she she has lost her mind.
> VAR is on the way.
> Making appointments with some people today to.


Can you hire a PI in her city. If she is already cheating, this is your best chance to get evidence.


----------



## warlock07

> Originally Posted by Yeswecan View Post
> I believe finding what number she is texting constantly will lead you what is going on.





Bubbagumps said:


> Correct.


Remember the "messenger only" you found on the copy clipboard.

Bubba, don't be a bubba.

Find out who she is texting so much. Trying to repair the marriage if she is cheating is a total waste of time.

Does she also dump a lot of work onto you while she goes on these trips ?


----------



## manfromlamancha

OK Bubba sorry to have you here. Here is my tuppence worth:


First of all I do not agree with what she has done or even with what some are saying on this thread. You definitely have a problem. I don't care if you are the most boring person on the planet, a woman with morals and boundaries doesn't lie, disrespect or cheat. She says to you that she is not happy because you are boring and then if you don't do anything about it, she leaves you/divorces you. Then she is free to go and party to her hearts content.


There are too many red flags here for it to be nothing. If it isn't already an affair or cheating, its fast heading there.


I agree that you need to improve you fun time with the wife - but you have to fix this first as this is a character flaw in her that needs to be addressed.


You can be the sexiest person but her taking the easy way out by lying and partying and God knows what else, will come back to bite you in the butt later if not addressed now.

And to add to this, she doesn't seem to care that she is also messing with her kid's life and well being - this is also very concerning.


So please do investigate and don't let her know that you are doing this. Get to the bottom of those texts and snoop to see if anything else is going on.


Take care.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Chaparral said:


> Lots of texts but no girlfriends, yet another redflag unless she texts female relatives a lot. Is she close with female relatives?
> 
> Unfortunately we see a lot of cheating wives here that do not have many female friends.
> 
> Do you know what coworkers she is traveling with? Is it usually the same people?
> 
> Has she ever talked about any male coworkers a lot and then abruptly quit talking about them?
> 
> What do you know about the ex coworkers?


Yes, I know who they are. They know who I am too. It is not the same people. 

1.More than they can imagine on all coworkers. I worked with them too...
2.All travel associaces are not the same. 
3.No male I can think of. 

But I just thought of something... let me ponder this.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> Yes, I know who they are. They know who I am too. It is not the same people.
> 
> 1.More than they can imagine on all coworkers. I worked with them too...
> 2.All travel associaces are not the same.
> 3.No male I can think of.
> 
> But I just thought of something... let me ponder this.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Wait wait wait wait
I never said I was going to talk to her sister about this. I would not do that to her, I was there for her first kid and the stupid doctors would not use a light saber on her, 28 hrs of pain she had. 

I may go see her because her sons, my nephes love to hang out with me. (her husband, more muscle, not so much brain) 
Her mother, no way in hell would I tell her anything ever. (In my wifes words " she is just, not human enough, we wont leave our dogs with her, let alone our child, she doesnt pay attention"

Wife is sending bait texts to me to try to get me to respond to her, not taking the bait. I have not replied other than facts about the child. 
I will give her credit on the transparent part, but I think that is because she suspects I have every tracker installed.


----------



## Marduk

Ok man, you're doing great. Stick to the plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> Wait wait wait wait
> I never said I was going to talk to her sister about this. I would not do that to her, I was there for her first kid and the stupid doctors would not use a light saber on her, 28 hrs of pain she had.
> 
> I may go see her because her sons, my nephes love to hang out with me. (her husband, more muscle, not so much brain)
> Her mother, no way in hell would I tell her anything ever. (In my wifes words " she is just, not human enough, we wont leave our dogs with her, let alone our child, she doesnt pay attention"
> 
> Wife is sending bait texts to me to try to get me to respond to her, not taking the bait. I have not replied other than facts about the child.
> I will give her credit on the transparent part, but I think that is because she suspects I have every tracker installed.


Dude grab a cold one and watch a hockey game.:lol:
If you need some .eu web sites to watch any sport you want PM me.


----------



## TRy

marduk said:


> My guess her work life has become her social life, because she doesn't have a social life with her husband or positive social friends.
> 
> Which means work is fun and exciting.
> 
> Which means home life is not fun and exciting.
> 
> Which means...
> 
> Well, pretty much this situation.


 Did you not just state a few post up "Don't presume."


----------



## Marduk

TRy said:


> Did you not just state a few post up "Don't presume."


I was saying "my guess" and following a chain of logic there, but good point. 

Trust but verify. If nothing's going on, and you verify it, everyone's better off. 

And if something's going on, it's gotta be dealt with.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Dude grab a cold one and watch a hockey game.:lol:
> If you need some .eu web sites to watch any sport you want PM me.


I do not watch tv or sports, and I do not play video games.


----------



## tom67

marduk said:


> I was saying "my guess" and following a chain of logic there, but good point.
> 
> Trust but verify. If nothing's going on, and you verify it, everyone's better off.
> 
> And if something's going on, it's gotta be dealt with.


:iagree:
Let's see what he gets regarding the texts and people should read marduk's thread.
I thought he was going to have a stroke with the amount of sh!t tests his w threw at him.


----------



## happy as a clam

yeah_right said:


> ETA - This is not something I would do if I'm simply a bored wife. *But I feel like the only woman posting on here* so I'd be open to the perspectives of other TAM ladies.


I'm here, y-r!!!!


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> I do not watch tv or sports, and I do not play video games.


I watch very little TV I watch online some sports I can't figure out how people watch "reality" TV.


----------



## tom67

happy as a clam said:


> I'm here, y-r!!!!


Watch it she has a Harley.


----------



## Nucking Futs

tom67 said:


> Watch it she has a Harley.


And bad-ass lats.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> And bad-ass lats.


Can't argue with that.
But I digress.


----------



## happy as a clam

You guys are cracking me up!


----------



## tom67

happy as a clam said:


> You guys are cracking me up!


Here's another light video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roTs4UmVZtE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj7kbmlbR08

This aussie show is a trip
Bubba just tryin to get you out of the dark place you are in right now.
End T/J


----------



## warlock07

You never directly addressed one post that mentioned she might be cheating..

Don't you think it is a possible scenario at ll?


----------



## happy as a clam

tom67 said:


> Here's another light video
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roTs4UmVZtE
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj7kbmlbR08
> 
> This aussie show is a trip
> Bubba just tryin to get you out of the dark place you are in right now.
> End T/J


tom... my sides are splitting!!! Holy camel, what a great laugh!


----------



## tom67

One more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmoRiscp6oY:o:o:o


----------



## warlock07

marduk said:


> I was saying "my guess" and following a chain of logic there, but good point.
> 
> Trust but verify. If nothing's going on, and you verify it, everyone's better off.
> 
> And if something's going on, it's gotta be dealt with.


I think your well intentioned posts totally put OP on the wrong track...Read the first 3-4 pages of the thread. I'm actually p*ssed off that a regular like you missed the signs he posted and went off a different tangent. OP atleast is new to the forum. 

Repeated business trips, using him as babysitter and partying with her co-workers, intentionally not revealing the date of her trip so that he will not be able to make the trip, lying about her nightouts, not picking up the calls, stating that OP wont control her, lying to counselor andsetting him up for failure etc.
Look at ths part


> One of the trips she just told me about 2 days ago and she is leaving next week.
> It is a party for 3 nights with a concert.


And this



> She is on the trip now. She did not reply to my calls which was strange.
> Later when I talked with her she said she went to dinner and was going to the lobby for drinks with the people she was traveling with.
> *She said " she had an early morning and its not like we are going to paint the town red" *
> 
> She lied on purpose. Sometimes people lie through omission. there was a particular intent in her lie.
> I called her later to ask about tax papers and she said she would let me know when she "got back"...(wind noise in the backround.)
> I called the hotel, they do not have a lobby that serves drinks.
> She is lieing. I am devistated. i puked, and had what felt like a mini heart attack
> I called her after that becase its late and wanted to discuss family things. She became defensive and sounded drunk, I asked her if she was saying this infront of her work colleges she says she was with, she said she stepped outside.
> She has not returned the call. Something is up.


And her excessive guilt when she got caught. 


OP's unnatural reaction is his gut screaming at him that something is seriously wrong. That is why he cannot pinpoint the source of his anguish. First it is his anxiety, then her travels, then he thinks they are his insecurities because of her lying, then something else.


----------



## Nucking Futs

tom67 said:


> One more
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmoRiscp6oY:o:o:o


You are killing me with these vids. :rofl:


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> You are killing me with these vids. :rofl:


The show is effing awesome it's not bland man stream pc U.s. tv.
You can stream the show live at 1:30 cdt.


National - Live feed news - ninemsn, Nine News - 9news.com.au

And you can win a "block of cash" mate


----------



## tom67

Awe what the heck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFTxoNMjmiQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9mlDAt9I1c


----------



## Marduk

warlock07 said:


> I think your well intentioned posts totally put OP on the wrong track...Read the first 3-4 pages of the thread. I'm actually p*ssed off that a regular like you missed the signs he posted and went off a different tangent. OP atleast is new to the forum.


Be mad all you want. He doesn't actually _know_ that she's cheating.

I'm recommending that he goes and finds out before he acts as if she _is_ cheating. He should do that because there's a ton of flags on the field, and he owes it to himself to go and find that out.

Because if he's wrong about that, acting as if she is cheating will just make things worse.


----------



## TRy

marduk said:


> Because if he's wrong about that, acting as if she is cheating will just make things worse.


 She may or may not have had sex yet with the other men that she is seeing on these trips, but her planning trips that purposely leave her husband out, so that she can spend time with and party with other men is called dating, and dating is cheating even before the sex starts happening. Acting as if what the OP has confirmed she is doing is not cheating, will let things get worse.


----------



## Chaparral

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, what difference does it make if its really a duck. Setting up a barhopping date, out of town and then lying about it is too much for me. I would have already changed the locks and put her clothes etc. in a storage locker.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Bubba, you said you just thought of something else - what is it ?


----------



## NextTimeAround

yeah_right said:


> If I understand the OP correctly, she did not paint the town red with the co-workers she was with for this work trip. *She met up with man/men that she used to work with, who happened to be visiting the same place she was. I'm going to assume (and you know how that goes) that she knew in advance these guys had the same destination, unless it was determined that she just bumped into them randomly in her hotel lobby.*
> 
> If she did indeed know in advance that she would be meeting the man/men, then yes, her reasons for waiting to tell about the trip and lying about her location, had to do with the mystery former co-worker(s).
> 
> If she hadn't been drunk the other night, would she have even told OP about her night out? We will never know.
> 
> ETA - This is not something I would do if I'm simply a bored wife. But I feel like the only woman posting on here so I'd be open to the perspectives of other TAM ladies.


The other possibility when they work in the same industry is that it was good bet that these former colleagues would be attending. 

I think networking is a worthwhile pursuit but after too much sauce and too late in the weehours, it becomes counter productive.


----------



## ConanHub

If she isn't cheating, muffled laughter, she should be because her actions are doing the same type of damage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ILoveSparkles

What if the OP is so quick to pull the trigger on divorce is because he has had indiscretions in the past, and he is using this situation to make her lying the reason he divorced her? This would make her the "bad guy".... He would come out the marriage as the "good guy."

Not saying it is true but it's another angle to consider.


----------



## ConanHub

Yes said:


> What if the OP is so quick to pull the trigger on divorce is because he has had indiscretions in the past, and he is using this situation to make her lying the reason he divorced her? This would make her the "bad guy".... He would come out the marriage as the "good guy."
> 
> Not saying it is true but it's another angle to consider.


What?.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NextTimeAround

yeah_right said:


> I* read all three, but by the middle of the second book I was skimming the sex scenes because they were dull.*
> 
> Having fantasies about being dominated is different than wanting it in real life. If some dude I barely know shows up at my work with rope and duct tape, and soon after starts talking about sex contracts and monitoring my food intake....I'm out, bro! I don't care how hot or rich he is. I have no plans to be a victim of some Ted Bundy clone. But if my H wants to do some safe domineering, ok.
> 
> So OP, please don't turn all dominant jerk-wad. Can you just be who you were when your wife fell in love with you? We all change through life but at the core you have certain traits that your wife fell for.


Try "American Psycho" (the book) for graphic sex scenes. /threadjack


----------



## Omar174

ConanHub said:


> If she isn't cheating, muffled laughter, she should be because her actions are doing the same type of damage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## Yeswecan

ConanHub said:


> If she isn't cheating, muffled laughter, she should be because her actions are doing the same type of damage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


----------



## Nucking Futs

Yes said:


> What if the OP is so quick to pull the trigger on divorce is because he has had indiscretions in the past, and he is using this situation to make her lying the reason he divorced her? This would make her the "bad guy".... He would come out the marriage as the "good guy."
> 
> Not saying it is true but it's another angle to consider.


No, it's not an angle to consider. It's just a wild idea you pulled out of your ass to try to shift the blame to the OP. I have no idea why you want to do that but it's not going to work, you can't expect us to take your fantasies into consideration when we're advising someone.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Update. 
She sent me a text saying she was going to the party for a little bit and she would text me when she was back. 

4hrs later, she sends me a text: 
"Back"
Since she offer 100% transparencey...
I replied. 
" Take a selfie, with your luggage in the backround, prove it"
She did not reply. 
I did call because I knew she what drunk. no answer..... 

GPS location was turned off.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> Update.
> She sent me a text saying she was going to the party for a little bit and she would text me when she was back.
> 
> 4hrs later, she sends me a text:
> "Back"
> Since she offer 100% transparencey...
> I replied.
> " Take a selfie, with your luggage in the backround, prove it"
> She did not reply.
> I did call because I knew she what drunk. no answer.....
> 
> GPS location was turned off.


wow


----------



## Bubbagumps

Update 2: 
She just called. I did not answer
She sent 2 texts: 
"I swear I just saw these texts. I was back and was brushing my teeth, but had my ringer off." 
"you should know that since you are now tracking my phone"


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Update.
> She sent me a text saying she was going to the party for a little bit and she would text me when she was back.
> 
> 4hrs later, she sends me a text:
> "Back"
> Since she offer 100% transparencey...
> I replied.
> " Take a selfie, with your luggage in the backround, prove it"
> She did not reply.
> I did call because I knew she what drunk. no answer.....
> 
> GPS location was turned off.


Why do I get a distinct feeling someone is being very vindictive? 

Did you get a handle on the number that your W has been texting?


----------



## Bubbagumps

I replied: 
Is that a statement or a question? 
W: Statement on both. I am getting in the shower.
Me: Perhaps we have different definitions of transparency?
Me: You Clicked accept?


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Why do I get a distinct feeling someone is being very vindictive?
> 
> Did you get a handle on the number that your W has been texting?


7-10 days to get that.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> I replied:
> Is that a statement or a question?
> W: Statement on both. I am getting in the shower.
> Me: Perhaps we have different definitions of transparency?
> Me: You Clicked accept?


I'll say it again, it is a good idea to let this rest until she gets home. This texting is getting absolutely nowhere. In fact, it appears a hole is being dug deeper.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> 7-10 days to get that.


What the...ATT I can get the numbers going in and out of the 3 phones I have in a instant.


----------



## happy as a clam

Yeswecan said:


> I'll say it again, it is a good idea to let this rest until she gets home. This texting is getting absolutely nowhere. In fact, it appears a hole is being dug deeper.


I agree. It's turning into a game, almost.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Reply:
W:"it said it was tracking, there was no accept option. And your version of transparency is spying, but whatever"


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Reply:
> W:"it said it was tracking, there was no accept option. And your version of transparency is spying, but whatever"


You are actively pushing your W further away.


----------



## convert

I can pretty much see, she probably won't hand the phone over when she gets back or she is going to blow up about it.

the comment about your transparency is spying.


another thought:
people lose their phones all the time.

maybe you should "lose" her phone and then buy her another one.
This gives all the time you need to look into it off site perhaps.
and it does not look like you are controlling, spying, or invading her privacy, because I don't see the transparency thing working out. 
this was Just a thought and yes maybe a stupid one IDK probable because she will know you "lost" it for her.


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> Reply:
> W:"it said it was tracking, there was no accept option. And your version of transparency is spying, but whatever"


 And her version of marriage is dishonest, but whatever.


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> Update 2:
> She just called. I did not answer
> She sent 2 texts:
> "I swear I just saw these texts. I was back and was brushing my teeth, but had my ringer off."
> "you should know that since you are now tracking my phone"


 When she gets back, ask if since she knew that you were tracking her phone, is that why she turned GPS off?


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> 7-10 days to get that.


No need to wait 7-10 days. Create an online account with the carrier right now. Then log in and look up the online billing information to get the number.


----------



## TRy

Yeswecan said:


> You are actively pushing your W further away.


 You have it backwards. The wife is actively pushing the OP away.


----------



## Marduk

Try: You don't know that's what happened.

My point is simply this. She might be cheating. Or she might be looking to have more fun just as the mc is indicating. 

Find out more data and go dark. Don't accuse her before you have more evidence.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> You are actively pushing your W further away.


Actually once I showed her that the notification did not allow tracking until she installed the app, she installed the app.
She thought it was auto tracking, the notification was to ask her if she would install the app.

I had to send texts to try to figure out when.where and how we are going to talk face to face, without the kid being present. 
I gave options: 
1. She sees kid, then kid goes over to grandparents, 
2. Once kid is in bed, grandparents watch her so we can go talk about it
3. Catch an earlier flight, I will take the day off

I know this is going to be a volitale conversation, I will not subject the kid to it at all. no comprimises on that.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> Update.
> She sent me a text saying she was going to the party for a little bit and she would text me when she was back.
> 
> 4hrs later, she sends me a text:
> "Back"
> Since she offer 100% transparencey...
> I replied.
> " Take a selfie, with your luggage in the backround, prove it"
> She did not reply.
> I did call because I knew she what drunk. no answer.....
> 
> GPS location was turned off.


Ok so that's bad. Very bad. 

****, I may have been wrong.

You have a party girl on your hands.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Ok so that's bad. Very bad.
> 
> ****, I may have been wrong.
> 
> You have a party girl on your hands.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


101 texts in 1 day...86 to me.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Actually once I showed her that the notification did not allow tracking until she installed the app, she installed the app.
> She thought it was auto tracking, the notification was to ask her if she would install the app.
> 
> I had to send texts to try to figure out when.where and how we are going to talk face to face, without the kid being present.
> I gave options:
> 1. She sees kid, then kid goes over to grandparents,
> 2. Once kid is in bed, grandparents watch her so we can go talk about it
> 3. Catch an earlier flight, I will take the day off
> 
> I know this is going to be a volitale conversation, I will not subject the kid to it at all. no comprimises on that.


I agree. Kids should not be witness to a possibly volatile conversation. However, do your best to keep it calm and controlled. Anger will hot help in resolving the issue. Let your W see the kids and get her bearings. Then look to solving the riddle of deception. Continue to pursue the number your W has been texting.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> 101 texts in 1 day... thats alot of texts


And you can not see the number that your W is texting?


----------



## Yeswecan

TRy said:


> You have it backwards. The wife is actively pushing the OP away.


I my mind it is the other way. :scratchhead:


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> And you can not see the number that your W is texting?


I cant, I jsut counted how many she sent me in the last day and it was 86 out of a total of 101. the remain number of texts I do expect most of those to be to her sister since she is going to have a kid today.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> I my mind it is the other way. :scratchhead:


If I did not have proof that the family tracking requested concent, you are right, but I showed her the links. Iphone require the user to install it on the phone manually. 

She then installed it without me asking.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> Update 2:
> She just called. I did not answer
> She sent 2 texts:
> "I swear I just saw these texts. I was back and was brushing my teeth, but had my ringer off."
> "you should know that since you are now tracking my phone"


OK, what?

I'm confused. Did she willfully turn her GPS off or not?

I would be surprised that she would give that as a response if she had -- more likely "my battery died" or "I wasn't getting a signal" or something like that.


----------



## Marduk

OK let me see if I have the chain of events right:

- she's been travelling for work, some discretionary, some not. This has gone up to basically being gone half the time.

- you guys have been unhappy enough to go to MC, who told you that you need to focus on each other more, and work and kid less.

- you guys start having more sex.

- you still aren't having date nights or couple's trips, tho.

- there have obviously been other events driving you to ask her to be transparent and install tracking software on her phone.

- she tells you she wants another kid.

- she sprung this party/conference trip on you last minute so there was no way you could come.

- she goes on this trip, says she's going out for dinner, and goes and parties and gets drunk in the company of other men instead.

- you bust her on this and she admits to lying and acts remorseful.

- instead of going dark, you text her 86 times a day, with overt threats to divorce.

- her response to this is more remorse, but then goes and parties again instead, and may have turned off her GPS so she can't be tracked.

- she didn't take a selfie to show you she was in her hotel room.

- she plans on leaving for europe soon after this trip without you.

Do I have this right?


----------



## yeah_right

marduk said:


> Try: You don't know that's what happened.
> 
> My point is simply this. She might be cheating. *Or she might be looking to have more fun just as the mc is indicating. *
> 
> Find out more data and go dark. Don't accuse her before you have more evidence.


I think the MC was suggesting they have fun together, not her going off drinking with the guys.

Edit - Reading further along, I see that your view might be changing now.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> OK, what?
> 
> I'm confused. Did she willfully turn her GPS off or not?
> 
> I would be surprised that she would give that as a response if she had -- more likely "my battery died" or "I wasn't getting a signal" or something like that.


yep, she killed it.


----------



## Marduk

yeah_right said:


> I think the MC was suggesting they have fun together, not her going off drinking with the guys.


100% agree.

In no way am I absolving her of any blame in this.

She's pushing him away _hard_.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> OK let me see if I have the chain of events right:
> 
> - she's been travelling for work, some discretionary, some not. This has gone up to basically being gone half the time.
> 
> - you guys have been unhappy enough to go to MC, who told you that you need to focus on each other more, and work and kid less.
> 
> - you guys start having more sex.
> 
> - you still aren't having date nights or couple's trips, tho.
> 
> - there have obviously been other events driving you to ask her to be transparent and install tracking software on her phone.
> 
> - she tells you she wants another kid.
> 
> - she sprung this party/conference trip on you last minute so there was no way you could come.
> 
> - she goes on this trip, says she's going out for dinner, and goes and parties and gets drunk in the company of other men instead.
> 
> - you bust her on this and she admits to lying and acts remorseful.
> 
> - instead of going dark, you text her 86 times a day, with overt threats to divorce.
> 
> - her response to this is more remorse, but then goes and parties again instead, and may have turned off her GPS so she can't be tracked.
> 
> - she didn't take a selfie to show you she was in her hotel room.
> 
> - she plans on leaving for europe soon after this trip without you.
> 
> Do I have this right?


She texted ME 86 times. I replied 10 times, all due to kid.

She killed GPS after she said she was back, 
The rest is correct


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> yep, she killed it.


Meaning, it was working, it stopped when she told you she was going to go party, and then started again?


Does she admit to killing the GPS? If so, what was her reason?


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> She texted ME 86 times. I replied 10 times, all due to kid.


OK. She's freaking out, then.

The rest is right?

24 texts to other people seems innocuous, maybe.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Meaning, it was working, it stopped when she told you she was going to go party, and then started again?
> 
> 
> Does she admit to killing the GPS? If so, what was her reason?


It was working, it stopped when she said she was back to the hotel. Pretty sure she killed it, or battery life went into power save.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> It was working, it stopped when she said she was back to the hotel.


OK dude that's bad. You're 100% positive this wasn't because of signal loss or something, right? 

Did you track her back to the hotel and then it shut off, or it shut off when she said she was going to go home, or what?

Did she admit to turning it off? Did she give a reason for not sending a selfie like you asked?

Especially if she was being remorseful and texting you 86 times to try to be transparent...

Man, she just doesn't make sense... and cheating is becoming way too likely, now.

You need to get those texts and a reason she shut off her GPS.

And stay dark until you do.


----------



## tom67

The ONLY thing that is certain is when you turn on GPS on any phone it will drain the battery pretty fast.
But the rest is bs.


----------



## Marduk

tom67 said:


> The ONLY thing that is certain is when you turn on GPS on any phone it will drain the battery pretty fast.
> But the rest is bs.


I know my gps loses signal inside my office building. 

If she made it back to the hotel and it went into cell tower triangulation mode or batt low, I guess it could have happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

I have an iPhone 5s and it doesn't drain my battery. I don't even charge it every day.

Ask her how date night went?


----------



## Bubbagumps

Bubbagumps said:


> Actually once I showed her that the notification did not allow tracking until she installed the app, she installed the app.
> She thought it was auto tracking, the notification was to ask her if she would install the app.
> 
> I had to send texts to try to figure out when.where and how we are going to talk face to face, without the kid being present.
> I gave options:
> 1. She sees kid, then kid goes over to grandparents,
> 2. Once kid is in bed, grandparents watch her so we can go talk about it
> 3. Catch an earlier flight, I will take the day off
> 
> I know this is going to be a volitale conversation, I will not subject the kid to it at all. no comprimises on that.


She replied to the flight I found for her that was 6 hrs earlier, she replied with: 

"I cant get an earlier flight. I have 5 other people with me and 1 car" (rental under her name)

I replied with " I did my best" 


I know if it was me, and my spouse was this concerned I would have already been home. But that is me.


----------



## TRy

Chaparral said:


> Ask her how date night went?


 Which one? She went out again until late the next night too. 

Also, considering the seriousness of the situation concerning her marriage, considering that she will soon be going out of town again for a week, and considering the fact that this conference/party was not required by her work, why has she not flown back home? Hotels let you cancel with 24 hours notice, meaning the money she would save on her hotel bill would offset much if not all of any possible costs to change her flight back home. Her staying to continue to party is very telling.


----------



## Bubbagumps

So. lets say
SHe comes home, we talk, i decide she did not cheat.
Europe...
I am dead tired, Had a sick kid, And they lying. 
WHat do I do? 
If I did not want her going before, well I really dont want her going now.
I will have zero "transparency" in europe. No phone, no nothing.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> So. lets say
> SHe comes home, we talk, i decide she did not cheat.
> Europe...
> I am dead tired, Had a sick kid, And they lying.
> WHat do I do?
> If I did not want her going before, well I really dont want her going now.
> I will have zero "transparency" in europe. No phone, no nothing.


Is Europe a deal breaker for you or not?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> I know if it was me, and my spouse was this concerned I would have already been home. But that is me.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:
We think alike here. I started typing a similar comment in my last post prior to you posting this.


----------



## Omar174

Bubbagumps said:


> So. lets say
> SHe comes home, we talk, i decide she did not cheat.
> Europe...
> I am dead tired, Had a sick kid, And they lying.
> WHat do I do?
> If I did not want her going before, well I really dont want her going now.
> I will have zero "transparency" in europe. No phone, no nothing.


If the trust is gone, there is only one thing left to do. 

You can't go on living with someone you don't trust.


----------



## Marduk

TRy said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> We think alike here. I started typing a similar comment in my last post prior to you posting this.


If she's not cheating, then there may be her ego, saving face with her co-workers, and her sense of independence on the line. 

Again, I'd be home like a rocket.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Is Europe a deal breaker for you or not?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fact: I ended up in the ER due to her lieing
Fact: I have a heart condition. 
Fact: This trip added fuel to my "anxiety" or "paranoya" whatever you wish to call it. 
Fact: She choose to lie, and do what she did
Fact: I am dead tired, have not slept but an hr. 
Fact: She admitted, what she did caused epic mess. 

You decide.


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> So. lets say
> SHe comes home, we talk, i decide she did not cheat.
> Europe...


 She may or may not have had intercourse with any of these other men that she has been parting with, but her secretly planning this trip so that you would not be able to come so that she could spend time with and party with men from her past is considered cheating in most marriages. And remember, Bill Clinton believes that he "did not have sex with that woman", because as a cheater the BJ that she gave him was not sex. only full on completed intercourse is sex to him. Cheaters define things to fit their needs, so her definition of cheating may not include making out.


----------



## Chaparral

How can she possibly prove she didn't cheat on this trip?


----------



## Marduk

Why did you feel the need to start tracking her? When did that start in this relationship?

Has she ever lied to you before?

Has this been an issue in past relationships?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## justis

I haven't read this whole thread, or even most of it. But my wife travels. She has a job that requires she travel. She makes very good money. She's always wanted to travel. That's what she told me and her boss. We have two grown kids. I was virtually a stay at home dad who did a lot of the raising from the time they were born. I'm a musician so it worked out for the most part. She's on the road now. She'll be back tomorrow. Sometimes she's gone for 5 days. Sometimes she's gone for almost two weeks. 

It's not easy. But I've found good relationships are always about compromise. She's compromised somethings, I've compromised others. It's what you can live with or adjust to that matters most. For me, the sex is generally great before she leaves and after she returns.


----------



## justis

Ha! Clearly I haven't read this thread! TRUST is the biggest factor for the traveling spouse. I'm not the jealous type, even when I may have had reason to be. But our relationship is based on total and compete honesty. It's taken years to achieve. We both have gone to great lengths to make it clear that we are worthy of trust. That trust WAS betrayed many years ago. Flirtations do and will happen. There are "innocent" flirtations. But when you're on the road and going to mixers and business meetings or cooling afterwards in bars with clients and associates, yeah. It can be dangerous. But one has to be willing and able to hear the truth without screaming and one has to be able to trust the partner enough to speak the truth. Best is you both should be willing to not force the other partner to experience anything you yourself aren't willing to experience.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Why did you feel the need to start tracking her? When did that start in this relationship?
> 
> Has she ever lied to you before?
> 
> Has this been an issue in past relationships?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This trip was way off. Ever since the hot potato timing and lots of half truths.
To my knowledge no, but she did say "this is not something I would normally lie to you about"
I had zero concerns until this trip.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> Fact: I ended up in the ER due to her lieing
> Fact: I have a heart condition.
> Fact: This trip added fuel to my "anxiety" or "paranoya" whatever you wish to call it.
> Fact: She choose to lie, and do what she did
> Fact: I am dead tired, have not slept but an hr.
> Fact: She admitted, what she did caused epic mess.
> 
> You decide.


You have every right to be upset and suspicious.

What you can't do is put your heart condition and any pre-existing anxiety/paranoia issues that you entered into the relationship with on her.

You haven't slept. You aren't making rational choices right now. You're reacting, not responding.

You need to eat, sleep, and get your head straight. You're about to go into one of the most difficult days of your life.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> This trip was way off. Ever since the hot potato timing and lots of half truths.
> To my knowledge no, but she did say "this is not something I would normally lie to you about"
> I had zero concerns until this trip.


OK then you have to get your crap together.

What about past relationships? Anxiety issues? The need to track or spy on your partner?

Have you recovered her texts from prior or during the trip? What did they say?

Just trying to discount anything that isn't the worst here. Before she gets back.


----------



## BradWesley

Chaparral said:


> How can she possibly prove she didn't cheat on this trip?


She doesn't have to, the burden of proof falls on him as he is making the accusations.

Hence he needs those numbers ASAP to do the detective work necessary.

If he confronts her without any evidence to support his claims, she will deny and eat him alive, as she is the much stronger partner.


----------



## Marduk

BradWesley said:


> She doesn't have to, the burden of proof falls on him as he is making the accusations.
> 
> Hence he needs those numbers ASAP to do the detective work necessary.
> 
> If he confronts her without any evidence to support his claims, she will deny and eat him alive, as she is the much stronger partner.


Thanks for saying so succinctly what I've been trying to say.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> You have every right to be upset and suspicious.
> 
> What you can't do is put your heart condition and any pre-existing anxiety/paranoia issues that you entered into the relationship with on her.
> 
> You haven't slept. You aren't making rational choices right now. You're reacting, not responding.
> 
> You need to eat, sleep, and get your head straight. You're about to go into one of the most difficult days of your life.


I yeah, I havent eaten either, thanks for reminding me. 
She admitted that she triggered the ER trip.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Fact: I ended up in the ER due to her lieing
> Fact: I have a heart condition.
> Fact: This trip added fuel to my "anxiety" or "paranoya" whatever you wish to call it.
> Fact: She choose to lie, and do what she did
> Fact: I am dead tired, have not slept but an hr.
> *Fact: She admitted, what she did caused epic mess.*
> 
> You decide.


If it was my decision...since she admitted she created this train wreck....is let her come home and put the train back on the track. I would not go any further attempting to clean up her mess.


----------



## Bubbagumps

BradWesley said:


> She doesn't have to, the burden of proof falls on him as he is making the accusations.
> 
> Hence he needs those numbers ASAP to do the detective work necessary.
> 
> If he confronts her without any evidence to support his claims, she will deny and eat him alive, as she is the much stronger partner.


you underestimate me. I will have more facts and proof than she will believe. 
She knows I am not rested, havent been eating. She has the upper hand. She was out partying and sleeping in. 
That is why I am going to take tommorrow off


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> you underestimate me. I will have more facts and proof than she will believe.
> She knows I am not rested, havent been eating. She has the upper hand. She was out partying and sleeping in.
> That is why I am going to take tommorrow off


Do you have some facts that would lead you to believe she hasn't cheated?


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> If it was my decision...since she admitted she created this train wreck....is let her come home and put the train back on the track. I would not go any further attempting to clean up her mess.


YOu know what that is so simple that it is the best solution. lol.

I will foward the voicemail she left me. Tell her to listen to it, and based on everything she took blame for, fix it? 
good idea?


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Do you have some facts that would lead you to believe she hasn't cheated?


When she was enraged by me catching her lies, in that call when she was drunk she was trying to hurt me. (literally worked)
She would have used it.

Also after I assessed who she was with, if she did, someone would have seen it, and its not a very big town... flash paper. one rumor would set off a chain reaction. too many eyes that all know each other


----------



## BradWesley

Bubbagumps said:


> you underestimate me. I will have more facts and proof than she will believe.
> She knows I am not rested, havent been eating. She has the upper hand. She was out partying and sleeping in.
> That is why I am going to take tommorrow off


If you have others form of proof and facts, please let us know so that we won't be shooting in the dark.


----------



## tom67

BradWesley said:


> If you have others form of proof and facts, please let us know so that we won't be shooting in the dark.


:iagree:
If you can't eat go buy those all in one protein shakes like this
Ensure Plus Nutrition Shake, 8 fl oz Vanilla | Walgreens


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> YOu know what that is so simple that it is the best solution. lol.
> 
> I will foward the voicemail she left me. Tell her to listen to it, and based on everything she took blame for, fix it?
> good idea?


You do not need to forward anything. Your W is very well aware of the abysmal handling of you, this trip and the aftermath. I think you have been clear on your stance concerning your W lying. Yes, it is up to your W to clean this mess up and do the work. It is up to you to accept what she has to offer in the clean up and future trips or reject them.


----------



## synthetic

tdwal said:


> You know if it were me, I would shock her as strong as possible. I would tell her that if she goes on this Europe trip then she has made your choice. You will put all her stuff in storage, change the locks on the house and have her served as soon as she gets back.


I wouldn't even tell her. I would just do it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

tdwal said:


> You know if it were me, I would shock her as strong as possible. I would tell her that if she goes on this Europe trip then she has made your choice. You will put all her stuff in storage, change the locks on the house and have her served as soon as she gets back.





synthetic said:


> I wouldn't even tell her. I would just do it.


Yeah, don't tell her ahead of time, you'll lose some of the shock value. Unless you've decided to just go ahead and divorce her, then you don't need shock value.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> You do not need to forward anything. Your W is very well aware of the abysmal handling of you, this trip and the aftermath. I think you have been clear on your stance concerning your W lying. Yes, it is up to your W to clean this mess up and do the work. It is up to you to accept what she has to offer in the clean up and future trips or reject them.


I need to turn this voicemail into text and back it up before I delete it on accident. 

Just listened to it agian, she "caused this whole thing "**cked it all up" 

Yeah, I will just let her clean it up, but she wont.


----------



## TRy

BradWesley said:


> If he confronts her without any evidence to support his claims, she will deny and eat him alive, as she is the much stronger partner.


 He does not need any more evidence to support his claim that she purposely told him at the last minute about the trip so that he could not go, that she lied to him about her actions and intentions, or that she met up with and partied with other men from her past until the wee hours. Why do you feel that he needs to prove that she had sex with these other men before he has a right to call her out on this behavior? Are you of the belief that married women are allowed to plan solo trips around seeing and parting with other men from her past, as long as the spouse cannot prove that they had sex?


----------



## Bubbagumps

The plan part 2: 
I am going to write down how much work I have missed in the last 3 weeks because of the choices she made. 
IE taking kid to doctor, dentist, staying home with the sick kid, hospital, losing sleep, bathing muddy huge dogs, garage door exploding, washing machine flooding ect. I will just note them as things that are causing problems at my job, getting counter tops installed, consiling (per her request; caused by this trip (her words))
THen I will break out everything she said sorry for, and said she caused. Give it to her, tell her I am not going to fight. Tell her when she can address everything, we will talk. 
Then I am going to go to bed. (FYI if I go to bed before midnight, it means something is very wrong, the earlier the bigger the problem. My mind just shuts down its a once in 2-3 year thing, very rare she knows what it means)


----------



## Marduk

TRy said:


> He does not need any more evidence to support his claim that she purposely told him at the last minute about the trip so that he could not go, that she lied to him about her actions and intentions, or that she met up with and partied with other men from her past until the wee hours. Why do you feel that he needs to prove that she had sex with these other men before he has a right to call her out on this behavior? Are you of the belief that married women are allowed to plan solo trips around seeing and parting with other men from her past, as long as the spouse cannot prove that they had sex?


I think the point is that hanging out and drinking with people (men and women included in this case, I think) and lying about it is quite different than planning a weekend hookup with some guy(s).

I mean, they're both bad, and enough for some people to call it quits on a marriage, and for some others, it's hurtful but recoverable. If the one that did the damage is willing to do the work, of course.

What say you bubba? If she went to go party with other people, and specifically disincluded you, and lied about it, are you done?

Or, if she shuts it down now, admits it was wrong, are you still going to try to make it work?

Because if you are, there's stuff you gotta do once she does what she's gotta do.

... and... we're still going off partial data, here. There's a reason why you think she may not be cheating after all.

What is it? And why no answers to my former questions?

It's getting difficult to help you, bubba.


----------



## TRy

BradWesley said:


> You do understand that her travel has been an ongoing problem for him, with his anxiety problems and his insecurity. Every time she travels it presents problems for him that translates to arguments with her.
> 
> Maybe she has had enough of his complaining, and shortens the notice from 1.5 months down to 1.5 weeks to avoid prolonged complaining.


 This has nothing to do with his complaining. He has stated that he would have loved to go with her had she given him notice so that he could go. The fact is she did not tell him because she did not want him to come.



BradWesley said:


> Neither you nor I nor the OP has proof that she cheated. You're a believer that assumptions are in fact truth.


 I have asked you this before with no answer. Why do you feel that he needs to prove that she had sex with these other men before he has a right to call her out on this behavior? Are you of the belief that married women are allowed to plan solo trips around seeing and parting with other men from her past, as long as the spouse cannot prove that they had sex?



BradWesley said:


> My wife travels for business also, and has dinner and drinks with clients. i have no problem at all with it.


 The OP's wife got drunk, lied about her actions and intentions, and then latter admitted that she went parting into the wee hours with other men that she knew from her past. Does your wife do that?


----------



## yeah_right

Bubbagumps said:


> Just got tommorrow off. Would I be a bad person for having the grandparents take care of the kid so I power my mental fuel cells up?


Yes! You need this. Once arrangements are made, text your wife that kids will be with grandparents tomorrow and to contact them for any child stuff...and then end conversations. Go do something that takes your mind off this drama. That way you should be refreshed when she returns Saturday.

And don't just hand her a list and go to bed. You need to TALK, face to face.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> Well what a big bag of fail. Grandma wants to come over and spend the night... translation: That does not help me at all.


Improvise 
Go out and grab dinner yourself.
Let grandma play with the kiddos.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> :lol::rofl:
> Whatever transpires, read MMSLP it is a guys friend.


Is this it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvRfPidmCac


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Improvise
> Go out and grab dinner yourself.
> Let grandma play with the kiddos.


Not that easy. if the kid is around. Alert mode is on. (no sleep)


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubbagumps said:


> Well what a big bag of fail. Grandma wants to come over and spend the night... translation: That does not help me at all.


Ummm... tell Grandma *"F*ck NO!!!!!!!!!"*

*C'mon Bubba... don't wimp out on us here.*

My spidey-sense is up folks. Too many "convenient" obstacles every step of the way. Divorce papers and serving the wife papers "on Monday" is being rammed through like a freight train. Honestly, nothing really is adding up... Who is this "sleepover grandma" we've heard nothing about until now? 

I'm out.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> Yes! You need this. Once arrangements are made, text your wife that kids will be with grandparents tomorrow and to contact them for any child stuff...and then end conversations. Go do something that takes your mind off this drama. That way you should be refreshed when she returns Saturday.
> 
> And don't just hand her a list and go to bed. You need to TALK, face to face.


She is coming back tommorrow....friday.


----------



## yeah_right

Bubbagumps said:


> Well what a big bag of fail. Grandma wants to come over and spend the night... translation: That does not help me at all.


Two options -

1) Sorry grandma, no.

2) Ok grandma, come on over. And then go get a hotel room for yourself where you can close the blackout drapes and sleep.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> Is this it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvRfPidmCac


I'll listen later when I'm home.


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> Ummm... tell Grandma *"F*ck NO!!!!!!!!!"*
> 
> *C'mon Bubba... don't wimp out on us here.*


I know why Grandma wants to come over, and its not for the grandchild.... 
She doesnt want me home alone... (She is my mom)


----------



## yeah_right

Bubbagumps said:


> She is coming back tommorrow....friday.


Did your wife tell grandma to come over tomorrow night to avoid a fight with you?

Simply tell grandma no. You have every right. Good lord, man, if your wife is coming home tomorrow, you have a marriage to save. No in-laws invited.

ETA - ohhhhhh, it's your mom. If you don't want to tell her what's going on, simply say your wife is coming home tomorrow and you want some quality time with her.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> Did your wife tell grandma to come over tomorrow night to avoid a fight with you?
> 
> Simply tell grandma no. You have every right. Good lord, man, if your wife is coming home tomorrow, you have a marriage to save. No in-laws invited.


I asked grandma to take the kid tonight, she wanted to come over instead. 

Grandma is not involved with tommorrow.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> Did your wife tell grandma to come over tomorrow night to avoid a fight with you?
> 
> Simply tell grandma no. You have every right. Good lord, man, if your wife is coming home tomorrow, you have a marriage to save. No in-laws invited.
> 
> ETA - ohhhhhh, it's your mom. If you don't want to tell her what's going on, simply say your wife is coming home tomorrow and you want some quality time with her.


She knows whats going on. That is why she doesnt want me alone. I suspect she thinks i am in some dark spot, but i just need some sleep.


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubbagumps said:


> I know why Grandma wants to come over, and its not for the grandchild....
> She doesnt want me home alone... (She is my mom)


Ok, but did you see the rest of my post or just choose to ignore it?

B'bye...


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> Ummm... tell Grandma *"F*ck NO!!!!!!!!!"*
> 
> *C'mon Bubba... don't wimp out on us here.*
> 
> My spidey-sense is up folks. Too many "convenient" obstacles every step of the way. Divorce papers and serving the wife papers "on Monday" is being rammed through like a freight train. Honestly, nothing really is adding up... Who is this "sleepover grandma" we've heard nothing about until now?
> 
> I'm out.


My mom? Did you miss the part where I said I just want to get some sleep, and do my own thing. ffs
I said I wanted to drop the kid off at grandma's house. Did you miss that? 
Are you implying that I am doing something wrong by wanting to get some sleep because tommorrow, my marrage depends on it?


----------



## TRy

BradWesley said:


> MSNBC/iVillage - are you really serious? That site is now defunct, and should have been shut down years ago, what a joke.


 The study of 70,000 people is still posted on the NBC site, which is very much still up and active. The study's lead researcher was Janet Lever, a sociologist at California State University, Los Angeles, and the numbers in the study matched up with other major studies. But if you want to argue for the sake of arguing, go ahead.


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, but did you see the rest of my post or just choose to ignore it?
> 
> B'bye...


Did you miss some posts?


----------



## BradWesley

TRy said:


> This has nothing to do with his complaining. He has stated that he would have loved to go with her had she given him notice so that he could go. The fact is she did not tell him because she did not want him to come.
> 
> The OP has stated that they don't go out together, no dates, no movies or dinners. Maybe just some friends at their home. She seems to enjoy socializing, and meeting with people. Wouldn't surprise me if she finds him to be very boring, and enjoys getting away for a few days.
> 
> I have asked you this before with no answer. Why do you feel that he needs to prove that she had sex with these other men before he has a right to call her out on this behavior? Are you of the belief that married women are allowed to plan solo trips around seeing and parting with other men from her past, as long as the spouse cannot prove that they had sex?
> 
> Again. He's making the accusations, he needs to have something to support his claims. She will deny, whether she cheated or not, and he's left holding an empty bag. What my beliefs are are irrelevant to this thread.
> 
> 
> The OP's wife got drunk, lied about her actions and intentions, and then latter admitted that she went parting into the wee hours with other men that she knew from her past. Does your wife do that?


I don't worry about my wife. She is not one to get sloppy drunk, and slip and fall on some guy's penis. I trust my wife, as opposed to many guys here.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> Well what a big bag of fail. Grandma wants to come over and spend the night... translation: That does not help me at all.


Translation...get a set of balls. Tell grandma she is having a sleep over with the grandkids. You have have a marriage to sort out. Period. For the love of God. Man up!


----------



## yeah_right

happy as a clam said:


> *My spidey-sense is up folks. *


I've had the same thought since yesterday but plan to ride this one out to the bitter end...just in case.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Yeswecan said:


> Translation...get a set of balls. Tell grandma she is having a sleep over with the grandkids. You have have a marriage to sort out. Period. For the love of God. Man up!


The more I think about it, the more work it will be for me. I will take the day off. Take the kid to day care and go out and build a fountian for my neiborhood. I like to build things that people cannot imagine in very short periods of time.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> I've had the same thought since yesterday but plan to ride this one out to the bitter end...just in case.


Are you saying I am cheating? I do not want to get rid of my wife, I just want to know the truth, no matter how bad it hurts. And that sucks.


----------



## yeah_right

BradWesley said:


> I don't worry about my wife. She is not one to get sloppy drunk, and slip and fall on some guy's penis. I trust my wife, as opposed to many guys here.


Hypothetical question - I know you trust your wife and she has never done anything bad on these trips. But if one time she lied about her location and then called you drunk at 1am and admitted she had been bar hopping with male former co-workers, how would you react?

Saying "she would never do that" is not an option. I'm trying to see the male opinion in THIS situation.


----------



## yeah_right

Bubbagumps said:


> Are you saying I am cheating? I do not want to get rid of my wife, I just want to know the truth, no matter how bad it hurts. And that sucks.


No worries. That post was just for Happy.


----------



## Bubbagumps

yeah_right said:


> Hypothetical question - I know you trust your wife and she has never done anything bad on these trips. But if one time she lied about her location and then called you drunk at 1am and admitted she had been bar hopping with male former co-workers, how would you react?


I would ask why she lied, and with who? why not just tell me that she was going to go out and have fun? I would be made at myself because I put her at risk.
By that I mean that if something happened to her, I would be at fault because she thought it might sound bad to me. Thus she lied to me to prevent seeming like a party girl
I would be confused, kind of like I am now.


----------



## Dogbert

Your wife sending Grandma over may indicate two things:

1. She senses something in you is "off" (yeah you got TAM fever ) like stress or health related and wants somebody to go over to talk to you and report back to her.

2. She may suspect that you may be doing something "inappropriate" during her absence. People who do inappropriate things often project them on to others.

If grandma wants to see the kids then tell her you'll drop them over by her place. I think she would enjoy that more than having to go spend time over to yours.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Dogbert said:


> Your wife sending Grandma over may indicate two things:
> 
> 1. She senses something in you is "off" (yeah you got TAM fever ) like stress or health related and wants somebody to go over to talk to you and report back to her.
> 
> 2. She may suspect that you may be doing something "inappropriate" during her absence. People who do inappropriate things often project them on to others.
> 
> If grandma wants to see the kids then tell her you'll drop them over by her place. I think she would enjoy that more than having to go spend time over to yours.


This post is based on totally incorrect infromation. I simpley wanted to take the kid to the grandparents so I could relax. 
ME. no one else.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubbagumps said:


> The more I think about it, the more work it will be for me. I will take the day off. Take the kid to day care and go out and build a fountian for my neiborhood. I like to build things that people cannot imagine in very short periods of time.


:scratchhead:


----------



## Nucking Futs

Dogbert said:


> Your wife sending Grandma over may indicate two things:
> 
> 1. She senses something in you is "off" (yeah you got TAM fever ) like stress or health related and wants somebody to go over to talk to you and report back to her.
> 
> 2. She may suspect that you may be doing something "inappropriate" during her absence. People who do inappropriate things often project them on to others.
> 
> If grandma wants to see the kids then tell her you'll drop them over by her place. I think she would enjoy that more than having to go spend time over to yours.


Wife is not sending G'ma over. G'ma is Bubba's mother, she knows what's going on, and is concerned he may be trying to get the kids out of the house so he can suicide. That's why she wants to come over rather than just keep the kids.


----------



## Dogbert

Nucking Futs said:


> Wife is not sending G'ma over. G'ma is Bubba's mother, she knows what's going on, and is concerned he may be trying to get the kids out of the house so he can suicide. That's why she wants to come over rather than just keep the kids.


If OP's mental state is so fragile, then his wife should not have left for that trip and leave their child in his hands.

Hell we shouldn't even be giving him any advice except to contact a suicide line ASAP.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Dogbert said:


> If OP's mental state is so fragile, then his wife should not have left for that trip and leave their child in his hands.
> 
> Hell we shouldn't even be giving him any advice except to contact a suicide line ASAP.


Nobody said he was actually suicidal, it's just his mother trying to make sure.

And from the way she's behaved, do you really think anything could have stopped her from going on this trip?


----------



## convert

BradWesley said:


> I don't worry about my wife. She is not one to get sloppy drunk, and slip and fall on some guy's penis. I trust my wife, as opposed to many guys here.


that is what all the betrayed guys have said

almost word for word


----------



## Chaparral

You posted that your wife texted you yesterday 86 times. What was the jist of those texts? Was she just repeating herself? What was her tone?

And then she went out to party again?


----------



## BradWesley

yeah_right said:


> Hypothetical question - I know you trust your wife and she has never done anything bad on these trips. But if one time she lied about her location and then called you drunk at 1am and admitted she had been bar hopping with male former co-workers, how would you react?
> 
> Saying "she would never do that" is not an option. I'm trying to see the male opinion in THIS situation.


If that were to happen, I would first ask her if she is safe and ok. I would then tell her to go to bed, and hope she enjoys her headache when she wakes up. 

I would ask when she came home, "What the hell were you thinking"? Her answer would be something like "I had too much to drink. It was pretty dumb. I'm sorry"

That would be it. I would not take away her travel, or girls weekends. She made a mistake and admitted it. End of discussion.


----------



## Chaparral

FYI, if I caught my wife doing what your wife did, I would have not responded to any text she sent, answered any call, or email. Not about anything including the kids.


----------



## Chaparral

BradWesley said:


> If that were to happen, I would first ask her if she is safe and ok. I would then tell her to go to bed, and hope she enjoys her headache when she wakes up.
> 
> I would ask when she came home, "What the hell were you thinking"? Her answer would be something like "I had too much to drink. It was pretty dumb. I'm sorry"
> 
> That would be it. I would not take away her travel, or girls weekends. She made a mistake and admitted it. End of discussion.


You left out several of the mistakes LP's wife made. Well actually they weren't mistakes. She intentionally set things up so that he wouldn't be able to go. Lied about going out to party with other men till the wee hours..........and more.


----------



## TRy

BradWesley said:


> I would ask when she came home, "What the hell were you thinking"? Her answer would be something like "I had too much to drink. It was pretty dumb. I'm sorry"
> 
> That would be it. I would not take away her travel, or girls weekends. She made a mistake and admitted it. End of discussion.


 The question stated that she lied. Did you include that in your answer? To paraphrase a quote that I read: A mistake is when you put the wrong gas in your car because you were not paying attention. An error in judgement is when you hire the woman because she is hot over the more qualified fat guy. Lying is none of those things.


----------



## yeah_right

TRy said:


> The question stated that she lied. Did you include that in your answer? To paraphrase a quote that I read: A mistake is when you put the wrong gas in your car because you were not paying attention. An error in judgement is when you hire the woman because she is hot over the more qualified fat guy. Lying is none of those things.


Yes, the lying about her location was part of this scenario. I know Brad trusts and cares for his wife. I am really interested in playing devil's advocate and learning the male perspective when faced with this particular type of situation. 

Brad - does the fact that she lied to you BEFORE she went drinking change your response?


----------



## Marduk

The question that needs to be answered is why she lied.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BradWesley

Chaparral, TRy and yeah right

As I have said before, I trust my wife 100%, even trust her with my life. Any issues/discrepancies that arise we handle in a smooth calm manner. 

I'm not going to play the hypothetical game with anyone. Hypothetical and assumptions are nothing more than bullshyt. If you want to play that game with some people have at it.

Bottom line is there are so many people here that don't trust anyone. That's a real screwed up way to go thru life, as short as it is


----------



## Chaparral

BradWesley said:


> Chaparral, TRy and yeah right
> 
> As I have said before, I trust my wife 100%, even trust her with my life. Any issues/discrepancies that arise we handle in a smooth calm manner.
> 
> I'm not going to play the hypothetical game with anyone. Hypothetical and assumptions are nothing more than bullshyt. If you want to play that game with some people have at it.
> 
> Bottom line is there are so many people here that don't trust anyone. That's a real screwed up way to go thru life, as short as it is


So someone disagrees with you so you accuse them of not trusting anyone? That's totally bizarre.


----------



## BradWesley

Chaparral said:


> So someone disagrees with you so you accuse them of not trusting anyone? That's totally bizarre.


I don't believe that anyone disagreed with me, rather they were looking for my opinion. Also, no where did I disagree with anyone, just stating my opinion.

To be honest I think your comment is somewhat twisted.


----------



## Voltaire2013

Brad,

You make me think of the magic eye puzzles, once you see them you can't unsee it. Those who've suffered through infidelity can't unsee it either, but they have learned plenty through the ordeal. I'm glad you have such a solid marriage and great trust, but that's not the position of the OP right now. 

There is deceit, bad boundaries, and mistrust, though the extent is not yet fully known. Many of the posters you seem to call out are trying to help so he can avoid the scars they now have, or minimize the damage in a worse case scenario. I see no need to make negative statements about their life experience and the help they are giving a stranger in distress.

I wish you well,
V(13)



BradWesley said:


> Chaparral, TRy and yeah right
> 
> As I have said before, I trust my wife 100%, even trust her with my life. Any issues/discrepancies that arise we handle in a smooth calm manner.
> 
> I'm not going to play the hypothetical game with anyone. Hypothetical and assumptions are nothing more than bullshyt. If you want to play that game with some people have at it.
> 
> Bottom line is there are so many people here that don't trust anyone. That's a real screwed up way to go thru life, as short as it is


----------



## BradWesley

Voltaire2013 said:


> Brad,
> 
> You make me think of the magic eye puzzles, once you see them you can't unsee it. Those who've suffered through infidelity can't unsee it either, but they have learned plenty through the ordeal. I'm glad you have such a solid marriage and great trust, but that's not the position of the OP right now.
> 
> There is deceit, bad boundaries, and mistrust, though the extent is not yet fully known. Many of the posters you seem to call out are trying to help so he can avoid the scars they now have, or minimize the damage in a worse case scenario. I see no need to make negative statements about their life experience and the help they are giving a stranger in distress.
> 
> I wish you well,
> V(13)


I appreciate your comments.

I will tell you that my ex-wife cheated on me, after almost 20 years of marriage. I do know the pain and suffering associated with infidelity. How I handled it is very different than what you may read on TAM. So much so, that I literally overcame the problems of infidelity approx. 90 days after D-day. 

No mind movies, bitterness, anger, hatred, etc. I was able to move on with my life.


----------



## yeah_right

BradWesley said:


> I appreciate your comments.
> 
> I will tell you that my ex-wife cheated on me, after almost 20 years of marriage. I do know the pain and suffering associated with infidelity. How I handled it is very different than what you may read on TAM. So much so, that I literally overcame the problems of infidelity approx. 90 days after D-day.
> 
> No mind movies, bitterness, anger, hatred, etc. I was able to move on with my life.



Wow! Your kung-fu is better than mine. 90 days is amazing. Congrats!


----------



## NextTimeAround

Just because you trust someone, doesn't mean that they are trustworthy.


----------



## BradWesley

yeah_right said:


> Wow! Your kung-fu is better than mine. 90 days is amazing. Congrats!


I would venture to guess that you didn't have a revenge affair with the OW husband.


----------



## convert

BradWesley said:


> Chaparral, TRy and yeah right
> 
> As I have said before,* I trust my wife 100%*, even trust her with my life. Any issues/discrepancies that arise we handle in a smooth calm manner.
> 
> I'm not going to play the hypothetical game with anyone. Hypothetical and assumptions are nothing more than bullshyt. If you want to play that game with some people have at it.
> 
> Bottom line is there are so many people here that don't trust anyone. That's a real screwed up way to go thru life, as short as it is


just me but i don't trust anyone 100 % not even myself sometimes


----------



## Voltaire2013

Brad, 
Sorry to hear but that makes your post even more quixotic, surely you can empathize with the OP and the worse case scenarios going through his mind right now? We're thread jacking, sorry Bubbs. 

Cheers,
V(13)



BradWesley said:


> I appreciate your comments.
> 
> I will tell you that my ex-wife cheated on me, after almost 20 years of marriage. I do know the pain and suffering associated with infidelity. How I handled it is very different than what you may read on TAM. So much so, that I literally overcame the problems of infidelity approx. 90 days after D-day.
> 
> No mind movies, bitterness, anger, hatred, etc. I was able to move on with my life.


----------



## yeah_right

BradWesley said:


> I would venture to guess that you didn't have a revenge affair with the OW husband.


No, because that would not have solved anything for me, and it really doesn't apply to this thread of the OP's wife.

Sorry for threadjack participation.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Just got a text from her... 12 mins ago
"FYI we are going to a Utah Jazz game (basketball) one of my coworkers son is a huge fan"

DAFUQ the game

She doesnt even like basketball...


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> Just got a text from her... 12 mins ago
> "FYI we are going to a Utah Jazz game (basketball) one of my coworkers son is a huge fan"
> 
> DAFUQ the game
> 
> She doesnt even like basketball...


A lot of women go to ball games because they're interested in the things their man is interested in. Sometimes they become a fan of the game on their own, but usually they're just doing it to be together. 

Then there are the actual female fans that go to games to see the games and you need to shut the hell up until the time out, and damned if she's going to explain why that was a foul to you again. Those are my favorites.

Of course, you say your wife doesn't like basketball...I guess it could just be a group outing. I went to a baseball game as part of a group outing once.


----------



## TRy

BradWesley said:


> I'm not going to play the hypothetical game with anyone. Hypothetical and assumptions are nothing more than bullshyt. If you want to play that game with some people have at it.


 In post #536 you already answered the hypothetical question that was asked, and thus you in fact "played the hypothetical game", "bullshyt"and all. You seem to be annoyed with it only after it was pointed out that you appeared to be willing to rug sweep lying, and we asked for clarification of that fact.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> A lot of women go to ball games because they're interested in the things their man is interested in. Sometimes they become a fan of the game on their own, but usually they're just doing it to be together.
> 
> Then there are the actual female fans that go to games to see the games and you need to shut the hell up until the time out, and damned if she's going to explain why that was a foul to you again. Those are my favorites.
> 
> Of course, you say your wife doesn't like basketball...I guess it could just be a group outing. I went to a baseball game as part of a group outing once.


Oh the eye candy at the Blackhawks game a few weeks ago.

Girl had me do a panoramic shot on her iphone 6.
My client-sister-was laughing my gf eh well.


----------



## TRy

BradWesley said:


> I do know the pain and suffering associated with infidelity. How I handled it is very different than what you may read on TAM. So much so, that I literally overcame the problems of infidelity approx. 90 days after D-day.
> 
> No mind movies, bitterness, anger, hatred, etc. I was able to move on with my life.


 Exceptions do not make the rule, thus your advice on this topic will often not apply to the majority of people that post here looking for support.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Nucking Futs said:


> A lot of women go to ball games because they're interested in the things their man is interested in. Sometimes they become a fan of the game on their own, but usually they're just doing it to be together.
> 
> Then there are the actual female fans that go to games to see the games and you need to shut the hell up until the time out, and damned if she's going to explain why that was a foul to you again. Those are my favorites.
> 
> Of course, you say your wife doesn't like basketball...I guess it could just be a group outing. I went to a baseball game as part of a group outing once.


Imgur


----------



## Voltaire2013

Bubbagumps said:


> Imgur


Bubs, 

Can I tell you lovingly to STFU? Stop texting her with your NeedyMcNeedy app on level 10. Keep it inside until she gets home and you know more about texts, etc. your gut has told you she isn't cheating and just having fun, even if being deceitful about it. I wonder if she thinks this is her last hurrah at getting out, even under the guise of work, to let her hair hang out and she is filling that bucket as best she can. 

I'm not condoning her behavior, I'm questioning your reaction. You need to come across as calm, cool and serene. You're not freaking out, you're righting the ship, as the captain does. You've said far too much already regardless of her activities on this trip. 

Find out all you can, prepare for the worst but hope for the best, but regardless of any of it, MAN UP. 

Plenty of good advice here on how to do that. Listen. Stop texting unless it's about the kids. 

We're here to help you but you've got to help yourself first. 
Cheers,
V(13)


----------



## Nucking Futs

Voltaire2013 said:


> Bubs,
> 
> Can I tell you lovingly to STFU? Stop texting her with your NeedyMcNeedy app on level 10. Keep it inside until she gets home and you know more about texts, etc. your gut has told you she isn't cheating and just having fun, even if being deceitful about it. I wonder if she thinks this is her last hurrah at getting out, even under the guise of work, to let her hair hang out and she is filling that bucket as best she can.
> 
> I'm not condoning her behavior, I'm questioning your reaction. You need to come across as calm, cool and serene. You're not freaking out, you're righting the ship, as the captain does. You've said far too much already regardless of her activities on this trip.
> 
> Find out all you can, prepare for the worst but hope for the best, but regardless of any of it, MAN UP.
> 
> Plenty of good advice here on how to do that. Listen. Stop texting unless it's about the kids.
> 
> We're here to help you but you've got to help yourself first.
> Cheers,
> V(13)


I hope you haven't sent anything else since you took that screen shot, the last thing you sent there would be the perfect place to go dark.


----------



## Chaparral

Bubbagumps said:


> Imgur


When you're in a sinking boat you grab a bucket. You are using an ax on the bottom of the boat. That's just another way of saying when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Not only should you stop texting, you should stop reading her texts to you.

It looks like two middle schoolers that can't stop tormenting each other.


----------



## farsidejunky

Bubbagumps said:


> Imgur


Why are you still engaging via text?!? 

Your responses should be limited to "ok" and/or "thank you".

You are apparently more interested in punishing, guilting, and lashing out than anything else in this situation. And while it may make you feel better in the instant, you are demonstrating weakness and that she is the stronger partner.

That is most of what got you into this situation to begin with.


----------



## farsidejunky

One more thing. You appear pretty adept and comfortable guilting your wife. 

The picture is becoming clearer to me at least. Her brain is associating you with pain. And quite frankly I suspect she is not scared of losing you, but rather is probably scared of confrontation with you because she does not like the way you handle disagreements with her.

People may forget what you do for them, but they will never forget how you made them feel.


----------



## Omar174

Bubbagumps said:


> Just got a text from her... 12 mins ago
> "FYI we are going to a Utah Jazz game (basketball) one of my coworkers son is a huge fan"
> 
> DAFUQ the game
> 
> She doesnt even like basketball...


THE HORROR! 

Ever hear of stepping out of your box and trying something new? I highly suggest it.


----------



## Omar174

farsidejunky said:


> One more thing. You appear pretty adept and comfortable guilting your wife.
> 
> The picture is becoming clearer to me at least. Her brain is associating you with pain. And quite frankly I suspect she is not scared of losing you, but rather is probably scared of confrontation with you because she does not like the way you handle disagreements with her.
> 
> People may forget what you do for them, but they will never forget how you made them feel.


 I said 20 pages ago that this dude is paranoid, anxious and suffocating to the woman. That is why she lied and delayed telling him about the trip. To avoid dealing with his behavior.


----------



## farsidejunky

Omar174 said:


> I said 20 pages ago that this dude is paranoid, anxious and suffocating to the woman. That is why she lied and delayed telling him about the trip. To avoid dealing with his behavior.


I never claimed to be a fast learner!


----------



## Omar174

farsidejunky said:


> I never claimed to be a fast learner!


I don't say this about the OP to be mean, it's the same thing I would tell a friend. 

Bubba needs help to deal with his anxiety.


----------



## BradWesley

Omar174 said:


> I said 20 pages ago that this dude is paranoid, anxious and suffocating to the woman. That is why she lied and delayed telling him about the trip. To avoid dealing with his behavior.


I agree with you Omar. I echoed the same comments a number of pages ago.

I think her travel plans are her way of keeping her sanity. Taking him on these trips would amount to doing what they do at home only it would take place on the road. She enjoys socializing with people, something they don't do at home.

I would be very surprised if she's cheating. She's lies to him to get him off her back. The text messages are very revealing. If they are indicative of his incessant texts and phone calls, no wonder she turns the phone off.

BUBBA - You need to get help now! I would speak to a medical doctor first, a psychiatrist. You may needs meds, short term, to help clear your head so that any helpful info given to you, your brain will process.

I wish you good luck.












i


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> Imgur


Dude you're coming off as needy and whiney and possessive. 

You have totally lost control of this situation. 

Stop texting her.


----------



## Yeswecan

Bubba, I had advised days ago...let this rest. And the current communication between your W and folks on this site are indicating a common denominator. That denominator is you. There is more to this story but it appears it is on your side. 

Would you care to share?


----------



## Marduk

farsidejunky said:


> One more thing. You appear pretty adept and comfortable guilting your wife.
> 
> The picture is becoming clearer to me at least. Her brain is associating you with pain. And quite frankly I suspect she is not scared of losing you, but rather is probably scared of confrontation with you because she does not like the way you handle disagreements with her.
> 
> People may forget what you do for them, but they will never forget how you made them feel.


Exactly, Far. 

Bubba, this is why she lies to you. Can you not see it?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Bubba, as I have said, I don't agree with the others here. You are in an intolerable situation and you have every right to be upset.

She lies because she likes to go out and have her fun - that is a character flaw - pure and simple. God knows what other character flaws she has. One of them seems to be not loving you enough or at all for that matter.

You have a heart condition and besides holding down a job, take the brunt of the heavy lifting when it comes to caring for the kids.

And she cold-heartedly prefers it to be this way with absolutely no regard for your well being. Many a SAHM has divorced a husband for less!

On top of this the lying and denying you the opportunity to have a break.

I may be the lone voice in the wilderness here but believe me, I do understand where you are coming from. Many who are giving you advice here, have not been in your exact situation whether their other halves have cheated or not.

Your wife seems to be cold, calculating, deceitful, uncaring (forget about loving), disrespectful, self-entitled and a liar! This is without throwing cheating into this pot!

Now why you would want to be with her whether she is cheating or not is another matter. In any case, the advice to stop texting, go dark and into stealth mode, work on your well-being and have it out with her when she gets back is sound.

And take care of yourself, buddy!


----------



## happy as a clam

Well, I called this whole thread as I saw it several pages ago.

Good luck Bubba.


----------



## TRy

manfromlamancha said:


> Bubba, as I have said, I don't agree with the others here. You are in an intolerable situation and you have every right to be upset.
> 
> She lies because she likes to go out and have her fun - that is a character flaw - pure and simple.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:
He is upset because his wife lies to him as she prefers to go on trips without him so that she can stay out late partying with other men from her past. Apparently, because he has not handled this betrayal as well as some would like him to and gone dark, some here feel that he deserves to be treated this way by his wife. I call bull to this. There is no reason that justifies her dating other men while married. If she does not want to be married to him, she should be divorcing him instead of discussing having another kid with him. She is a cake eater.


----------



## synthetic

LOL! Now we're picking on Bubba for "guilting" his wife?!! 

uhmmm.... the woman is a professional liar. She spends her time with other men and takes trips that make her husband anxious enough to develop heart conditions.

Guilting her?! We can only wish Bubba could do enough of that so she would f***ing stop!


----------



## Omar174

synthetic said:


> uhmmm.... the woman is a professional liar.


Maybe I'm wrong about Bubba, maybe I'm right. Just posted opinions based on his statements. 

But your statement about her being a "professional liar" sounds f_cking ridiculous. LOL

Why don't we ask Bubba if he agrees with you? 

What say you Bubba, is your wife a professional liar?


----------



## farsidejunky

synthetic said:


> LOL! Now we're picking on Bubba for "guilting" his wife?!!
> 
> uhmmm.... the woman is a professional liar. She spends her time with other men and takes trips that make her husband anxious enough to develop heart conditions.
> 
> Guilting her?! We can only wish Bubba could do enough of that so she would f***ing stop!


There is more evidence of him being a professional guilter (word?) than her being a professional liar, and FTR I don't think either are true. 

But the guilting attempts in the text exchanges are a terrible way to resolve this, whether she is cheating or not. That shows her through his actions that she is the stronger one. And I suspect even you would agree, Synthetic, that the last thing you want to show a WS is weakness.


----------



## synthetic

farsidejunky said:


> There is more evidence of him being a professional guilter (word?) than her being a professional liar, and FTR I don't think either are true.
> 
> But the guilting attempts in the text exchanges are a terrible way to resolve this, whether she is cheating or not. That shows her through his actions that she is the stronger one. And I suspect even you would agree, Synthetic, that the last thing you want to show a WS is weakness.


Okay I don't disagree with that.

His tone and words in his texts scream of weakness, I agree.

But I don't think the guy is a machine. He's got feelings. He's been hurt and feels totally betrayed (even if it's just mind movies).

All I'm saying is, he can't be blamed for any of this even if he's reacting to it all wrong. He's not the one going on those trips and he's not the one who's been caught lying. It's all his wife's doing.

His wife can't claim, "Oh he caused me to lie to him and take these trips". That crap doesn't fly.

He's innocent as far as his wife's actions are concerned.

I agree he should be handling this a lot better though. He's coming across as very weak and that's only helping his wife continue her bullsh1t.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I understand what Synthetic is saying when he calls her a "professional liar" - she seems to be able to turn the lies on at a moments notice to get what she wants. Probably does this at work too - who knows.

And if Bubba was a professional "guilter" - so what ? Are you saying she doesn't need to be guilted ? 

However, I do agree it will make him seem weak in her eyes. The problem is he is trying to save this marriage. If it were me, of course I would go dark and quiet, but then I would be half way out the door in terms of staying in the marriage. So guilting is the less harsh way of trying to make her see sense in Bubba's opinion.

But Bubba, seriously, start being more dark and assertive and more focussed on your well being (and of course that of the kids). She will get a better dose of reality this way. If you guys split up, she will have to make time for her kids (for at least 50% of the time) and out will go her partying/wandering days! And possibly her career will be affected too.


----------



## ladymisato

Bubbagumps said:


> She wants another child, (right now) but we are not on the same page because she wants to continue to travel.
> ...
> 
> I know I might seem like a total jerk, but I just want to remove the travel, its the biggest problem other than my insecurity.
> 
> I am at a total loss of what to do. I feel trapped and like the marriage is falling apart for no real reason.


There has been a lot of discussion in this thread but I thought I would offer my two cents.

There are obviously some practical issues here that requires solutions. Raising children when both parents work is a big challenge alone. The travel certainly complicates that.

In my case, I also traveled a lot but only after the kids were older and my husband could take care of them alone while I was away. Even if you were a SAHD, there was still be the matter of breastfeeding. (Is she thinking formula?)

But I am most concerned with your insecurity. I can't help but wonder how that might be coloring your perception of the situation.


----------



## Dogbert

OP, your wife wants to continue in her travel required job and there is nothing you can do about it. You can't and should not control it, so accept it. The only person you can control is you as well as the choices you make.

If need for peace of mind is greater than your need to remain married, then the choice is clear, divorce. But if its the other way around, then you are going to have to accept that your behavior is only killing any desire she may have left for you. So which is it? Peace of mind or Marriage? 

You owe us nothing but you owe yourself, your child and your wife some honesty. Dig deep inside and find the choice that you will be able to live with for the rest of your life. As the saying goes "Pain is inevitable but misery is optional".


----------



## jojo717

LonelyinLove said:


> What is in the water recently with men spazzing over their wives business travel?
> 
> I do agree she should have told you as soon as she knew it was a possible trip.


I can only speak for myself but in my case my wife's business travel has contributed to the distance between us and the problems in our marriage

she has had the same job for 19 years...she is good at it, makes good money (esp for our area), has been promoted and mostly enjoys it

all of this is good with me
I've been very proud of her and for many years supported her in many ways to help her succeed

before we had kids I went on some of these trips with her and of course we went on dates, took trips together ourselves, etc

once we had our son she put his wants above mine in every way-she refused to 'let him cry' to fall asleep and our evenings turned into her being with him all night long in another room often falling asleep there with him

she resisted using babysitters for us to have nights out...'I don't know them'/trust them, etc

she resisted using my parents so we could have getaways (my parents are a little nutty in a just off normal way but in no way dangerous and totally safe and trustworthy-they already had a history of successfully keeping my brother's kids by the time we had one)

for a number of years I don't think I really paid attention to how this was making me feel

the jealousy about her adventures and the feeling that she was not willing to find ways to include me or have our own adventures

then we had our second child and her work travel seemed to ramp up (after she scaled it back during the first year of kid 2)

she went from averaging 4-5 trips/year at probably 15 nights overall to about twice that

often including 'an extra day' to catch up with an old friend in city X (females) or to have some fun sightseeing with a (female) colleague

I continued to be cool about this

she has never tried to stop me from taking a trip though the only ones I went on were for martial arts tournaments or boot camps and not at all comparable to staying in great hotels, eating great meals and enjoying big city and/or resort night life

from 2011-13 she ramped up the trips again and most of the extra trips were presented to me as:
optional
only marginally related to her work
a really great opportunity for me to go to Europe/asia/a neat hiking trip in new mexico sponsored by xyz company

she also had a number of solely personal trips through the years and again for a long time I was cool with it

visiting a friend
girls hiking/beach weekends (not the girls night out type more the hanging out at a house/cabin type)

she has gone to 3 of her high school reunions...all w/out me

I didn't have any interest in the first one when we were newly dating
she was pregnant w/our 2nd when she went to the 2nd one-I thought it a bit much but she is very close to a number of her high school friends and doesn't live near them/see them much at all

the last one really killed me because it was during a stretch of time when she was gone for something like 28 out of 44 nights or something 

I asked about going to it-she said 'spouses don't go', 'you'll be bored', it will raise the expense of the trip too high (plane tickets even though we can and do drive to this location most of the time when we visit her family)

meanwhile

I recognized the problems in our marriage on several occasions following the birth of our 2nd child

that we needed a better sex life 
that we needed date nights/couples trips

she agreed but continued to resist trips with me but continued taking them for 'work' and her own fun


so for me I've had it with her work trips


she won't quit her job but has tried to reduce to the 'bare minimum' required (which was 5 short trips last year but already looking like 7 this year)




a lot of this was on me


I should have negotiated a better compromise years ago
I should have taken the lead in our marriage in many ways

but in these modern times I've been a modern man

we are a team
she is a strong, smart, competent person

she should have made more effort to change things


hard to feel like she has wanted me to travel with her

maybe some reasons for that


but I am quite sure that if she hadn't been getting her travel/adventure itch scratched by her job she would have been as desperate as I've become to have those adventures together




I am not in the midst of making sure that I am regularly taking trips on my own


but it isn't what I want




so I'd say that a travelling spouse, whether male or female, can contribute to resentment and marital issues if that person is not working to show appreciation for the person 'left behind'


in my case my wife never honored her promise to take me on a getaway for my 40th bday

which will be 5 years gone in 3 weeks


while continuing to take advantage of many opportunities for her own excitement


issues

travel has created/excacerbated many of them


it is what it is


I don't think my wife has cheated on me but I know these trips are opportunities for her to do so and I would never know



I have become a basket case in the past few years about it


----------



## jojo717

let me add too what I've posted before 

I love my 2nd child 
she is an incredible blessing and joy in my life 

but at the end of the day we should not have had a second child given the issues in our marriage

and if I'd known that the travel would continue and that she'd continue to exclude me from it or other adventures with her I damn sure wouldn't have agreed to a 2nd


----------



## Marduk

TRy said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> He is upset because his wife lies to him as she prefers to go on trips without him so that she can stay out late partying with other men from her past. Apparently, because he has not handled this betrayal as well as some would like him to and gone dark, some here feel that he deserves to be treated this way by his wife. I call bull to this. There is no reason that justifies her dating other men while married. If she does not want to be married to him, she should be divorcing him instead of discussing having another kid with him. She is a cake eater.


Don't confuse the blame game with understanding her motivations.

He's not accountable for her lying. She is.

His accountability is understanding and controlling his own behaviour.

This comes from a guy that has been in bubba's shoes, and been just like him, and had to face that.


----------



## PM1

Seems like this thread came to a fairly abrupt halt...


----------



## Marduk

She came home.


----------



## Nucking Futs

marduk said:


> She came home.


Yep. We probably wont hear from him again until she leaves again, if then.


----------



## PM1

Good points. I have to admit I was curious if he stepped back from serving her papers on Monday and they talked it out or not. Hope they communicated.


----------



## AriYarjan

Just caught up on this thread! Where is the OP ? Did he not like the advice given ?


----------



## Bubbagumps

Long update: 
I decided I needed to break the rut/cycle and do something random. Something out of the box. 
Before she came back I went and bought her 3 red dresses so we could go out for dinner and talk. She got home, and went off on me (did not know about the dresses yet) she knew that I got a baby sitter and we needed to talk. 
She said that had I not been crazy all week, the thought of going out would have been nice. 
Went to dinner, nothing productive came out of it continued snipe attack me until I thought I was literally insane. 
She then gave me an ultimatum: 
1. No drinking during the week
2. Go Get a psych evaluation, and record the session for her
3. Go to a heart doctor, and record the session for her

I did everything she asked, and they said what she did not want to hear, I was healthy, panicked and frightened, but otherwise healthy (disclosed that I was tracking her via gps, requested message logs, went through phone text messages, ect)

I asked the doctors for consent and the Psychiatrist said " No" 
Other doctor said " nothing to tell you, see you in a year" 

She continued to reject the medical professionals, so 
The next Tuesday I made a decision to go to the marriage consilier, that she choose previously......


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> Long update:
> I decided I needed to break the rut/cycle and do something random. Something out of the box.
> Before she came back I went and bought her 3 red dresses so we could go out for dinner and talk. She got home, and went off on me (did not know about the dresses yet) she knew that I got a baby sitter and we needed to talk.
> She said that had I not been crazy all week, the thought of going out would have been nice.
> Went to dinner, nothing productive came out of it continued snipe attack me until I thought I was literally insane.
> She then gave me an ultimatum:
> 1. No drinking during the week
> 2. Go Get a psych evaluation, and record the session for her
> 3. Go to a heart doctor, and record the session for her
> 
> I did everything she asked, and they said what she did not want to hear, I was healthy, panicked and frightened, but otherwise healthy (disclosed that I was tracking her via gps, requested message logs, went through phone text messages, ect)
> 
> I asked the doctors for consent and the Psychiatrist said " No"
> Other doctor said " nothing to tell you, see you in a year"
> 
> She continued to reject the medical professionals, so
> The next Tuesday I made a decision to go to the marriage consilier, that she choose previously......


Collapsed like a tower of jello.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Long update pt2. 

We were at the marriage counselor and after about 1 hr, something happened.The consiler said to her " Stop saying BUT!" Then she said something that I did not expect.
" you realize you started coming here for his irrational thoughts, correct?"
"Do you realize that when irrational thoughts happen, they become reality?"

"You built the powderkeg, filled it, put the fuse in it and lit it, flew out of town, and made irrational thoughts into rational thoughts. You caused this, no him, he does not need Psych evaluations, you hurt him on many levels. He is now injured. You own that." 

I was shocked. I disclosed everything to her too. When irrational and rational blur, that is when you do not know up from down. I was so relieved that I was not crazy, but was being made to belive I was.
The wife left " humbled" 

The only thing that the consiler did not say, but hinted was that the next trip might be reconsidered to allow the injury to heal.

This was a shifting point in a way......


----------



## Bubbagumps

Long Update pt3
We were on a teeter totter of 1 good day, 1 bad day. She started to change her attitude. I could tell she was trying. 

So 4 days before she left I decided to put together a list of pro's and cons for myself of her travel/work. 

In hindsight I did not realise how much she was taking advantage, or injecting a false reality until I wrote this out. 
The list of pro's was 0, the list of cons was so long, I stopped writing
I asked her if she would like to see it and she said yes, told her it was not to be hurtful, or to cause her to be defensive. 
She was understanding, thanked me. 
she said "I'm sorry honey, I really didn't want you to feel empty, bad or any sadness. I realize this month has been incredibly 1 sided I'm going to fix that, I love you" 

Later that night, everything turned back into my fault. I asked her to provide me a list of pros and cons as she sees it, she refused. 

I thought about the whole thing and decided to look at what was causing the teeter totter. After much thought it was because I could not forgive her. So I did. 

Last night it hit me. She was being reactive, not proactive. I was asking for proactive help from her. 
Then the real bus hit me. She was going to continue to travel, she says she cares about Us, but the reality is that she likes to travel, does not care about what it does to the family. 

She left today for Europe. We did not fight, I refused. 
I am trapped. I cannot do anything more to show her the impact. I am not going to issue ultimatums. I am just going to have to deal with it. 
She might love her job, but it cannot love her back. This will have to be discovered by her.


----------



## ladymisato

Bubbagumps said:


> She started to change her attitude.


Don't underestimate this. Nurture this small seed.


----------



## Bubbagumps

ladymisato said:


> Don't underestimate this. Nurture this small seed.


I will do my best.
My marrige is threatened by something she refuses to admit. its simple at this point. She chooses Travel over Family.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

If travel means that much to her set her free and give her the divorce she deserves


----------



## Bubbagumps

D.H Mosquito said:


> If travel means that much to her set her free and give her the divorce she deserves


that would be a mistake. She is trying, but she is having a hard time dealing with everything going from being me as the problem, and blaming me to having a dose of 3rd party reality. I can tell its hard for her to handle.


----------



## happy as a clam

Clear AS DAY.

She is jerking you round and round.

Divorce this wench.


----------



## synthetic

It's unfortunate to see a man completely destroyed by his wife's selfishness and deceit.

Bubba, your wife is slowly killing you. She's got a knife deep in your flesh and is slowly turning and twisting it.

How long are you going to wait? Till you're barely alive? That's just stupid. A source of much regret later in life.

DIVORCE HER. Detach from her and let her lose you in the process. That's the consequence for her selfishness. Do it now.

Ultimatums are for misbehaving kids. Don't issue any ultimatums. Your wife is free to live the way she wants. It's only YOU who has trapped himself in this bubble of misery. Blow the bubble and get out. The world is waiting for you to break free of this nightmare. We're on your side. The counselor is on your side. Life is on your side. Only time is not on your side. Defeat it, by filing for divorce and expediting the detachment process.


----------



## D.H Mosquito

You know her better than us here, if you feel she can be trusted and brought around to seeing your view point that's what to do, sometimes i just get peeved and jaded at the actions of spouses i read here on top of the actions of my one, I'm having a bad day ignore me


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> Clear AS DAY.
> 
> She is jerking you round and round.
> 
> Divorce this wench.


That will do nothing but cause more grief. That is too easy.


----------



## Bubbagumps

synthetic said:


> It's unfortunate to see a man completely destroyed by his wife's selfishness and deceit.
> 
> Bubba, your wife is slowly killing you. She's got a knife deep in your flesh and is slowly turning and twisting it.
> 
> How long are you going to wait? Till you're barely alive? That's just stupid. A source of much regret later in life.
> 
> DIVORCE HER. Detach from her and let her lose you in the process. That's the consequence for her selfishness. Do it now.
> 
> Ultimatums are for misbehaving kids. Don't issue any ultimatums. Your wife is free to live the way she wants. It's only YOU who has trapped himself in this bubble of misery. Blow the bubble and get out. The world is waiting for you to break free of this nightmare. We're on your side. The counselor is on your side. Life is on your side. Only time is not on your side. Defeat it, by filing for divorce and expediting the detachment process.


I know I am trapped by myself. I know what it has done to me, and is doing to me. 
This choice is hers to make, not mine, my choice never changed. Family First, there are millions of jobs, if a career is more important than the things that love her back, then that is her choice.


----------



## happy as a clam

synthetic said:


> It's unfortunate to see a man completely destroyed by his wife's selfishness and deceit.
> 
> Bubba, your wife is slowly killing you. She's got a knife deep in your flesh and is slowly turning and twisting it.
> 
> How long are you going to wait? Till you're barely alive? That's just stupid. A source of much regret later in life.
> 
> DIVORCE HER. Detach from her and let her lose you in the process. That's the consequence for her selfishness. Do it now.
> 
> Ultimatums are for misbehaving kids. Don't issue any ultimatums. Your wife is free to live the way she wants. It's only YOU who has trapped himself in this bubble of misery. Blow the bubble and get out. The world is waiting for you to break free of this nightmare. We're on your side. The counselor is on your side. Life is on your side. Only time is not on your side. Defeat it, by filing for divorce and expediting the detachment process.


synthetic... THIS should be a sticky. WOW... OP, if you don't listen to this, there's not much else here that can be offered...


----------



## ladymisato

happy as a clam said:


> synthetic... THIS should be a sticky. WOW... OP, if you don't listen to this, there's not much else here that can be offered...


I forget sometimes, is this Talk About Marriage, or Talk About Divorce?

Let's give marriage a chance.


----------



## Bubbagumps

ladymisato said:


> I forget sometimes, is this Talk About Marriage, or Talk About Divorce?
> 
> Let's give marriage a chance.


I choose to do things that are hard, because the hard things I choose are the right things for my family.


----------



## synthetic

Bubbagumps said:


> I choose to do things that are hard, because the hard things I choose are the right things for my family.


You are as wrong as you could be. You're stubbornly insecure. Any counselor with half a brain could easily see through your self-fooling words.

I don't want to be too hard on you because I have been exactly where you are right now, and can easily see what's awaiting you just around the corner. I know the lesson you're about to be taught, because I got 'taught' myself. The hard way 

My only hope is for you to learn that lesson faster than I did. From the mountain of hurt, confusion and false-hope that I had to climb to get to the other side, only one regret remains:

*The time I wasted saying "I'm not giving up".*


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> I know I am trapped by myself. I know what it has done to me, and is doing to me.
> This choice is hers to make, not mine, my choice never changed. Family First, there are millions of jobs, if a career is more important than the things that love her back, then that is her choice.


You answered your own question the career is her first choice.
Bubba all you are to her is a babysitter.
Everyone has a breaking point I truly hope you get to yours soon.:scratchhead:


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> You answered your own question the career is her first choice.
> Bubba all you are to her is a babysitter.
> Everyone has a breaking point I truly hope you get to yours soon.:scratchhead:


I have exausted every resource I can think of to try to get her to understand. 
I am a babysitter that she gets to have sleep with and doesnt have to pay. 
played for a fool I have been.

I do not know that there is anything else I can do?


----------



## ladymisato

tom67 said:


> You answered your own question the career is her first choice.
> Bubba all you are to her is a babysitter.


Even a babysitter is not just a babysitter.

And one has to wonder why a woman who gives priority to her career in the same way that men do is unreasonable.

Are these men just babysitters:

The Big Flip


----------



## Bubbagumps

ladymisato said:


> Even a babysitter is not just a babysitter.
> 
> And one has to wonder why a woman who gives priority to her career in the same way that men do is unreasonable.
> 
> Are these men just babysitters:
> 
> The Big Flip


My wife and I make equel pay. We both committed to family first. I have not traveled since our kids entered the picture. 
That is the frustrating part.


----------



## ladymisato

Bubbagumps said:


> My wife and I make equel pay. We both committed to family first. I have not traveled since our kids entered the picture. That is the frustrating part.


A fair distinction. And I recall from earlier in the thread that there was some question as to whether her travel was necessary to her job.

But suppose it were, even if indirectly (e.g. those who travel get better promotions). It might make sense for you to hold your non-traveling job and for her to travel on hers while you care for the kids when she's away.

Now if she's just traveling because she enjoys it, that's a different matter. Now it's not her career that is "first" but her enjoyment of traveling.

(Note that earlier I raised the very practical question as to how you breastfeed an infant in that situation so don't think I'm ignoring your concerns.)

The fact that she (might) need to travel for work and you don't is not, in and of itself, an injustice.


----------



## Bubbagumps

ladymisato said:


> A fair distinction. And I recall from earlier in the thread that there was some question as to whether her travel was necessary to her job.
> 
> But suppose it were, even if indirectly (e.g. those who travel get better promotions). It might make sense for you to hold your non-traveling job and for her to travel on hers while you care for the kids when she's away.
> 
> Now if she's just traveling because she enjoys it, that's a different matter. Now it's not her career that is "first" but her enjoyment of traveling.
> 
> (Note that earlier I raised the very practical question as to how you breastfeed an infant in that situation so don't think I'm ignoring your concerns.)
> 
> The fact that she (might) need to travel for work and you don't is not, in and of itself, an injustice.


These are not manditory, these are because she likes to travel. These are trips that will lead to a promotion, and will require more travel. These are voluntary trips.


----------



## ladymisato

Bubbagumps said:


> These are not manditory, these are because she likes to travel. These are trips that will lead to a promotion, and will require more travel. These are voluntary trips.


Yes, so if these are genuinely voluntary, meaning not only are they not required to keep her job but they do nothing to advance her career, then she is not putting her career first, she's putting her like of travel first.

I hope you can appreciate why I am emphasizing this difference.


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> My marrige is threatened by something she refuses to admit. its simple at this point. She chooses Travel over Family.


 To her, travel represents living like a single person, no kids, no husband, where she gets to party with other men and not be held accountable. Going out socializing with other men, having fun with them drinking and partying, is called dating even if there is no sex, as many dates do not involve sex. Dating is done so that you and a member of the opposite sex have the opportunity to get to know each other better, such that you are able to possibly develop feelings for each other. When you are single dating is normal as you search for a mate. As a married person, you are supposed to take yourself off of the market, which is why dating someone other than your spouse is considered cheating by most couples even with sex not being involved. For those that say that it takes sex for it to be considered cheating, I say that is exactly what people involved in emotional affairs (EA) say.


----------



## Bubbagumps

ladymisato said:


> Yes, so if these are genuinely voluntary, meaning not only are they not required to keep her job but they do nothing to advance her career, then she is not putting her career first, she's putting her like of travel first.
> 
> I hope you can appreciate why I am emphasizing this difference.


Yes, I understand. That is why I am torn up inside. These trips actually cause her work to compound when she returns leaving for longer work days, and more emptiness. She tried to start a fight this trip, I wouldnt take the bait. 

I will admit, the consilier was right I was injured. This trip shattered me. Just the one question from the kiddo " Daddy, whats wrong?" broke me.


----------



## ladymisato

Bubbagumps said:


> Yes, I understand. That is why I am torn up inside. These trips actually cause her work to compound when she returns leaving for longer work days, and more emptiness. She tried to start a fight this trip, I wouldnt take the bait.


Kudos for not taking the bait. Did she try to pick a fight before leaving or upon return?

I'm sorry if you've answered this before, the thread is getting long, but how did she explain/justify the trips to the marriage counselor?


----------



## Bubbagumps

ladymisato said:


> Kudos for not taking the bait. Did she try to pick a fight before leaving or upon return?
> 
> I'm sorry if you've answered this before, the thread is getting long, but how did she explain/justify the trips to the marriage counselor?


She tried before this trip, I did not take the bait. In the past before and after return from a trip. 

She explained the need for me to see a marrige counsiler because she said I had irrational thoughts. Once the consiler saw through the bull****, she decided we did not need to go anymore.


----------



## tom67

Listen
Do you want to put up with a part time wife?
If a friend gave you this exact scenario what would you tell him to do?
Dude I wish nothing but the best for you but you two are not compatible in my opinion.
You can be the primary parent and she can give you child support and then you can find someone with your beliefs.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> She tried before this trip, I did not take the bait. In the past before and after return from a trip.
> 
> She explained the need for me to see a marrige counsiler because she said I had irrational thoughts. Once the consiler saw through the bull****, she decided we did not need to go anymore.


Doesn't this tell you all you need to hear?
Come on already.


----------



## farsidejunky

So she decided you no longer needed counseling when the counselor held her to task?

Bubbagumps, I am sorry, brother. This is a serious compatibility issue at a minimum, and outright narcissism at worst. 

But nowhere in that spectrum is a person who is humble enough to accept they may be at fault, or gracious enough to compromise.

I am sorry brother, but I don't see any way to fix this.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Doesn't this tell you all you need to hear?
> Come on already.


I am beat up. I admit that I have lost. I have nothing to gain nor lose by waiting out this trip. Due to being 7 hrs ahead of me, we might have email contact at most. Though I do not really know that saying anything will change a thing. 

She knows how loyal I am. I am discombobulated


----------



## Bubbagumps

farsidejunky said:


> So she decided you no longer needed counseling when the counselor held her to task?
> 
> Bubbagumps, I am sorry, brother. This is a serious compatibility issue at a minimum, and outright narcissism at worst.
> 
> But nowhere in that spectrum is a person who is humble enough to accept they may be at fault, or gracious enough to compromise.
> 
> I am sorry brother, but I don't see any way to fix this.


You and me both. 7 years and a perfect kiddo and now this. 
The final straw was the kiddo for the first time ever had to cheer me up. The sad part, or the worst part for me was that I could not mask my emotions anymore.


----------



## TRy

Bubbagumps said:


> I am beat up. I admit that I have lost. I have nothing to gain nor lose by waiting out this trip. Due to being 7 hrs ahead of me, we might have email contact at most. Though I do not really know that saying anything will change a thing.


 Ironically, if you were to file for divorce right now, with her travelling and you making the same pay as her while being the primary care giver, her attorney would tell her to get a job that does not require travel if she wants a chance at custody of your child, otherwise she will end up without custody paying child support. Thus she would give up her single woman travelling lifestyle that caused the divorce right when she becomes single again. Of course she could choose the lifestyle over her child like she has with her marriage.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> I am beat up. I admit that I have lost. I have nothing to gain nor lose by waiting out this trip. Due to being 7 hrs ahead of me, we might have email contact at most. Though I do not really know that saying anything will change a thing.
> 
> She knows how loyal I am. I am discombobulated


I am and others here are so sorry she chose this path you are a loyal man but you and your kids have needs... emotional needs and you need a faithful woman who respects you.
It's time to look out for YOU and the KIDS.
Focus my man focus.


----------



## tom67

TRy said:


> Ironically, if you were to file for divorce right now, with her travelling and you making the same pay as her while being the primary care giver, her attorney would tell her to get a job that does not require travel if she wants a chance at custody of your child, otherwise she will end up without custody paying child support. Thus she would give up her single woman travelling lifestyle that caused the divorce right when she becomes single again. Of course she could choose the lifestyle over her child like she has with her marriage.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
WORD!


----------



## Marduk

Here's what you do.

It sucks, but it's what I think.

Use this time to lawyer up, get everything sorted, paperwork in play.

No more ultimatums. No more threats. No more texts, phone calls, anything. Action.

And action is to get ready to leave. Let her go.


----------



## Bubbagumps

TRy said:


> Ironically, if you were to file for divorce right now, with her travelling and you making the same pay as her while being the primary care giver, her attorney would tell her to get a job that does not require travel if she wants a chance at custody of your child, otherwise she will end up without custody paying child support. Thus she would give up her single woman travelling lifestyle that caused the divorce right when she becomes single again. Of course she could choose the lifestyle over her child like she has with her marriage.


You can see that, I can see that, but she is blind to it. She said " You would fix the problem by not travelling, well I am not you."


----------



## tom67

marduk said:


> Here's what you do.
> 
> It sucks, but it's what I think.
> 
> Use this time to lawyer up, get everything sorted, paperwork in play.
> 
> No more ultimatums. No more threats. No more texts, phone calls, anything. Action.
> 
> And action is to get ready to leave. Let her go.


Bubba just because she is in Europe now does not mean you can't serve her.
The company she works for you serve at the home office this is known as "substitute service"
She will be handed it when she gets back though she will probably be notified by one of her superiors.


----------



## tom67

Bubba to really see what her true intentions are I believe you have to file bro.
Just me.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Here's what you do.
> 
> It sucks, but it's what I think.
> 
> Use this time to lawyer up, get everything sorted, paperwork in play.
> 
> No more ultimatums. No more threats. No more texts, phone calls, anything. Action.
> 
> And action is to get ready to leave. Let her go.



The reason she thinks she can do this was learned. We live in a small town and there is alot of overlap of people.


----------



## tom67

Bubbagumps said:


> The reason she thinks she can do this was learned. We live in a small town and there is alot of overlap of people.


:scratchhead::scratchhead:
Bubba file and go from there.
Just because you file it does not mean instant divorce.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> :scratchhead::scratchhead:
> Bubba file and go from there.
> Just because you file it does not mean instant divorce.


To her, it is.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> To her, it is.


So if you file she's done? Let me see if I'm following this: She travels as much as she can voluntarily, even though it means she has to work harder and longer hours when she's not traveling to catch up. She knows you're having major problems with it, knows you were actually hospitalized over it on her last trip, knows you're thinking about divorce, knows the MC blamed her for it, and she still went on a voluntary international trip.

This is what you're afraid of losing?


----------



## synthetic

Bubbagumps said:


> To her, it is.


That's wonderful!

You'll be able to find someone who equally loves you (or more) and cares when you are hurt. 

Almost every single person in your situation who divorced their selfish spouse ended up regretting 'not doing it sooner'. 

I'm not talking out of my ass. I'm one of them


----------



## happy as a clam

ladymisato said:


> I forget sometimes, is this Talk About Marriage, or Talk About Divorce?
> 
> Let's give marriage a chance.


:scratchhead:

Of course this site (and most of us on it) is pro-marriage. But at the moment, his wife is not "participating" in this marriage in a healthy way for OP. That's when the "D" word comes up.


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubbagumps said:


> Once the consiler saw through the bull****, she decided we did not need to go anymore.


Bubba... I think you should tell her that counseling is not "optional" if she wants to continue this marriage. Just because she doesn't like what the counselor is saying doesn't give her the right to bail on it. It's for BOTH of you to decide, not just her.

Of course, it's hard to go to counseling when one partner is traveling frequently


----------



## toonaive

synthetic said:


> That's wonderful!
> 
> You'll be able to find someone who equally loves you (or more) and cares when you are hurt.
> 
> Almost every single person in your situation who divorced their selfish spouse ended up regretting 'not doing it sooner'.
> 
> I'm not talking out of my ass. I'm one of them


:iagree:


----------



## Marduk

She's calling your bluff.

Time to lay the cards on the table.


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> Bubba... I think you should tell her that counseling is not "optional" if she wants to continue this marriage. Just because she doesn't like what the counselor is saying doesn't give her the right to bail on it. It's for BOTH of you to decide, not just her.
> 
> Of course, it's hard to go to counseling when one partner is traveling frequently


I know. I sent her reading on marriage Attachment injuries, and some other Gottman reading. This is my last attempt


----------



## tom67

Bubba none of us are perfect if she was putting in any effort I would say try and make this work but she isn't.
There is nothing to save here.


----------



## Bubbagumps

tom67 said:


> Bubba none of us are perfect if she was putting in any effort I would say try and make this work but she isn't.
> There is nothing to save here.


Well the reading material was dismissed instantly. 
From her: "The links/ articles were fine. But I'm failing to draw parallels to our situation. I know you don't like me justifying the duration, but all of those sources talk about being gone consistently every week of the year for 4+ days. That's not me. That's not us. This month has been atypical... i will agree to that... but I am NOT gone every week of the year.... or even 1 week every month. "


----------



## Marduk

Further engagement is pointless.

I know this is hard for you, but go dark.

Let the paperwork speak for itself.


----------



## Noble1

Bubbagumps said:


> You and me both. 7 years and a perfect kiddo and now this.
> The final straw was the kiddo for the first time ever had to cheer me up. The sad part, or the worst part for me was that I could not mask my emotions anymore.


Sorry to hear that things did not improve.

As many others have said, there is no reason your wife "wants" to change. She is getting everything she wants, a "marriage", kids and a husband/babysitter when she is doing HER thing.

It does not seem to be any "OUR" things going on. 

To me, it looks like you have been trying and trying to set things right for "everyone". Unfortunately your "wife" is not on board in getting things right for "everyone".

To the point of ignoring the counselor when things did not go her way.

You mentioned in a prior post that you are doing what is right for your "family".

Right now it seems like the only family you have is you and your child....and you can see what impact your current situation is having on the child.

I know everyone is usually all for fixing and repairing the relationship...but what would change if you are divorced?

If your "wife" continues to travel you still get to spend lots of time with your child.....AND....you may get a chance to spend time with someone who really puts you first and who really wants to be with YOU.

Good luck.


----------



## happy as a clam

Bubba... a couple of weeks ago you were all set to serve her with divorce papers the moment she returned from her trip.

Now you seem resigned to being "stuck"...

I'm just wondering what changed in your mind.


----------



## Marduk

happy as a clam said:


> Bubba... a couple of weeks ago you were all set to serve her with divorce papers the moment she returned from her trip.
> 
> Now you seem resigned to being "stuck"...
> 
> I'm just wondering what changed in your mind.


What changed is it was a bluff and she called it.

Sorry Bubba. You have little choice now.

Let silence and action speak volumes. 

If she comes back and tries to work on things, maybe. But you need to act from a place of strength.

And that's not where you are at right now. She sees her husband as bluffling, blustering, and threatening... with nothing behind it.

She owns the marriage right now. And you keep giving her back the keys.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Bubbagumps said:


> Well the reading material was dismissed instantly.
> From her: "The links/ articles were fine. But I'm failing to draw parallels to our situation. I know you don't like me justifying the duration, but all of those sources talk about being gone consistently every week of the year for 4+ days. That's not me. That's not us. This month has been atypical... i will agree to that... but I am NOT gone every week of the year.... or even 1 week every month. "


If you reply to this at all it should be "I have filed for divorce. Papers will be waiting for you at your office. No need to come back here."


----------



## TRy

marduk said:


> She's calling your bluff.
> 
> Time to lay the cards on the table.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## synthetic

Bubbagumps said:


> Well the reading material was dismissed instantly.
> From her: "The links/ articles were fine. But I'm failing to draw parallels to our situation. I know you don't like me justifying the duration, but all of those sources talk about being gone consistently every week of the year for 4+ days. That's not me. That's not us. This month has been atypical... i will agree to that... but I am NOT gone every week of the year.... or even 1 week every month. "


Do you realize how unattractive you are to your wife right now?

Sending her reading material? Asking her to go to counseling? 

What does it take to engage your balls in this scenario? A full-blown sexual affair between her and her numerous male companions recorded in HD footage and served to you with popcorn?

Wake the f*** up man. Wake up.

File for divorce and don't even think about entertaining her pleas and bargaining until she's begging you to take her back. THAT's the price for her behavior. Nothing less (could be a lot more).


----------



## Bubbagumps

I am going to just proceed in a state of mind that we are already divorced. I have no need to talk to her, email her, or any other communication. She is gone, I am not going to mope around or respond to her baiting emails, texts, ect. 
The family is me and my kiddo going forward. She made a decision to not be a part of our family, not me. 

I have removed everything that she controlled from her, except myself. That changes today. I am not going to file for divorce I will wait for her to get back.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Nucking Futs said:


> If you reply to this at all it should be "I have filed for divorce. Papers will be waiting for you at your office. No need to come back here."


Why would I give her ammunition to use against me? I would much rather file and not say a thing. No need to have her melt down abroad.


----------



## Noble1

Bubbagumps said:


> Why would I give her ammunition to use against me? I would much rather file and not say a thing. No need to have her melt down abroad.



This is the high road and I respect you for it.....

....personally, I do believe in revenge and vengeance, reap what you sow, etc...so I would have no issues in making the trip abroad a bit of a worry just as was done to you.

Good luck in moving forward, you have done all you can by yourself.


----------



## Bubbagumps

Should I file first then find attorney? The papers are very straight forward where I live.


----------



## synthetic

Bubbagumps said:


> Should I file first then find attorney? The papers are very straight forward where I live.


The only concern is custody. For that reason alone, I would lawyer up right away (While she's away) to make the best possible custody case. 

She's not going to play nice. Have no doubt.

Again, file for divorce NOW. It will look a lot better for your custody battle. The judge will see why you filed given the timeline. 

"She left for Europe and I filed" is a lot better than "She left, came back, left again, came back, we're divorcing and now I want custody of my daughter"


----------



## Bubbagumps

synthetic said:


> The only concern is custody. For that reason alone, I would lawyer up right away (While she's away) to make the best possible custody case.
> 
> She's not going to play nice. Have no doubt.
> 
> Again, file for divorce NOW. It will look a lot better for your custody battle. The judge will see why you filed given the timeline.
> 
> "She left for Europe and I filed" is a lot better than "She left, came back, left again, came back, we're divorcing and now I want custody of my daughter"


Got it. Lawers called, paperwork ready.


----------



## Marduk

Good.

Now prep for the conversation you will have when she returns.

And don't speak of it until that point.

"Wife, this isn't working out for either of us. You feel trapped and I feel lied to and trapped in a disrespectful marriage. I want out. Now. Here's how I propose we move forward with ending it."

Something simple along those lines.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Good.
> 
> Now prep for the conversation you will have when she returns.
> 
> And don't speak of it until that point.
> 
> "Wife, this isn't working out for either of us. You feel trapped and I feel lied to and trapped in a disrespectful marriage. I want out. Now. Here's how I propose we move forward with ending it."
> 
> Something simple along those lines.


File before or after the conversation? 
I honestly believe she is in a state of confusion because she cannot actually imagine how things will work if I am out of the picture. 
She is so hell bent on being stubborn she is missing oblivious to all of the warning signs. It is sad really.

Just like when she was humbled by the Consiler, I suspect the same will happen when the voicemails are replayed that she left.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> File before or after the conversation?
> I honestly believe she is in a state of confusion because she cannot actually imagine how things will work if I am out of the picture.
> She is so hell bent on being stubborn she is missing oblivious to all of the warning signs. It is sad really.
> 
> Just like when she was humbled by the Consiler, I suspect the same will happen when the voicemails are replayed that she left.


Dunno.

Talk to a lawyer.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Dunno.
> 
> Talk to a lawyer.


Will do. 
I honestly want to just tell her when she texts me where she is for the day/night: "You do not have to do that, Enjoy your trip!"
Like just now she sent me a text telling me where she was and to text or call her if she is able to speak with kiddo.


----------



## some_help

Bubbagumps said:


> Why would I give her ammunition to use against me? I would much rather file and not say a thing. No need to have her melt down abroad.


Dear OP, this is my first post on this website. It was while reading through your posts that I decided to join the website and share my 2 cents.

I haven't read the entire thread but I guess you are really upset about:

1) Her frequent job related visits neglecting her family.
2) Her lying about being somewhere when she was in reality somewhere else.

I guess it won't hurt you to read through my post. I am in similar kind of situation as you. One kid and working wife. By nature, I am a laid back kind of guy where as she is a go-getter. Like you I too had several chances of visiting other countries (in my case, government would have footed the bill) but I am simply too lazy and passed them off.

She on the other hand, is often on trips. Mostly she is the only female member in her team on trips with rest of all males. At times, like you felt, I too feel suspicious, worried or even angry.

Now look at your case:

1) She has said specifically TO YOU that she wants another kid. Women are very strongly clear about issues like having kids. If she were having an affair, she wouldn't have mentioned this to YOU.

2) There is no such thing as the "perfectly honest" marriage. There are always some harmless lies in every relationships, some harmless thoughts that you wouldn't want your spouse to know. 

Can you claim that during your married life you NEVER thought about any other woman in a way that is not forbidden according to the definition of perfectly honest marriage?

I am sure she must have caught you sometimes staring at places on another woman's body that you shouldn't be staring at but she didn't made a hill out of a mole.

Finally, Research tells you that women are always better at bouncing out of a break up/divorces (being socially far far smarter than us). So you basically stand to lose a lot - your kid, your health, a marriage - for something which IMHO is rather trivial.

<quote>
I always told my wife I would not travel, and expected very little from her too. I have not broken that promise. 
<\quote>

That was your promise, not hers.

<quote>
The most frustrating part of this is that both trips, she gave me no notice, when she knew about them 2 months before hand. One of the trips she just told me about 2 days ago and she is leaving next week.
<\quote>

Yeah, this is something I feel you have a right to be upset about. Could it be that she was worried about your reaction and wanted to delay telling you as much as possible?

<quote>
I am at a total loss of what to do. I feel trapped and like the marriage is falling apart for no real reason.
<\quote>

Look from her PoV. She has a husband who resents her travelling, who is not outgoing, who she feels is "controlling".


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> Will do.
> I honestly want to just tell her when she texts me where she is for the day/night: "You do not have to do that, Enjoy your trip!"
> Like just now she sent me a text telling me where she was and to text or call her if she is able to speak with kiddo.


Inadvisable.

Consider that you did this the last trip, and she neither came running back, nor stopped partying, nor stopped planning her next trip.

If you tell her that, she's just going to be even more free and unrestrained with her activities and plans. While surrounded by party people encouraging this.

And that's only if she actually believes the threat, which she probably won't. It will just add to why she should leave you, not the other way around.

Is this what you want?


----------



## Bubbagumps

some_help said:


> Dear OP, this is my first post on this website. It was while reading through your posts that I decided to join the website and share my 2 cents.
> 
> I haven't read the entire thread but I guess you are really upset about:
> 
> 1) Her frequent job related visits neglecting her family.
> 2) Her lying about being somewhere when she was in reality somewhere else.
> 
> I guess it won't hurt you to read through my post. I am in similar kind of situation as you. One kid and working wife. By nature, I am a laid back kind of guy where as she is a go-getter. Like you I too had several chances of visiting other countries (in my case, government would have footed the bill) but I am simply too lazy and passed them off.
> 
> She on the other hand, is often on trips. Mostly she is the only female member in her team on trips with rest of all males. At times, like you felt, I too feel suspicious, worried or even angry.
> 
> Now look at your case:
> 
> 1) She has said specifically TO YOU that she wants another kid. Women are very strongly clear about issues like having kids. If she were having an affair, she wouldn't have mentioned this to YOU.
> 
> 2) There is no such thing as the "perfectly honest" marriage. There are always some harmless lies in every relationships, some harmless thoughts that you wouldn't want your spouse to know.
> 
> Can you claim that during your married life you NEVER thought about any other woman in a way that is not forbidden according to the definition of perfectly honest marriage?
> 
> I am sure she must have caught you sometimes staring at places on another woman's body that you shouldn't be staring at but she didn't made a hill out of a mole.
> 
> Finally, Research tells you that women are always better at bouncing out of a break up/divorces (being socially far far smarter than us). So you basically stand to lose a lot - your kid, your health, a marriage - for something which IMHO is rather trivial.
> 
> <quote>
> I always told my wife I would not travel, and expected very little from her too. I have not broken that promise.
> <\quote>
> 
> That was your promise, not hers.
> 
> <quote>
> The most frustrating part of this is that both trips, she gave me no notice, when she knew about them 2 months before hand. One of the trips she just told me about 2 days ago and she is leaving next week.
> <\quote>
> 
> Yeah, this is something I feel you have a right to be upset about. Could it be that she was worried about your reaction and wanted to delay telling you as much as possible?
> 
> <quote>
> I am at a total loss of what to do. I feel trapped and like the marriage is falling apart for no real reason.
> <\quote>
> 
> Look from her PoV. She has a husband who resents her travelling, who is not outgoing, who she feels is "controlling".


She recently changed her mind on the child, 2 days ago. 
Yes, she could have delayed telling me to prevent a fight, but that actaully snowballed. 

She wants to travel. Bottom line she like it. I have put myself in her Point of View. She is not looking at anything but what she makes up, or tricks herself into believing. She even attempted to turn my family agianst me.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> She recently changed her mind on the child, 2 days ago.
> Yes, she could have delayed telling me to prevent a fight, but that actaully snowballed.
> 
> She wants to travel. Bottom line she like it. I have put myself in her Point of View. She is not looking at anything but what she makes up, or tricks herself into believing. She even attempted to turn my family agianst me.


Once someone feels controlled, there is only one solution that I've found.

Let them go.


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> Inadvisable.
> 
> Consider that you did this the last trip, and she neither came running back, nor stopped partying, nor stopped planning her next trip.
> 
> If you tell her that, she's just going to be even more free and unrestrained with her activities and plans. While surrounded by party people encouraging this.
> 
> And that's only if she actually believes the threat, which she probably won't. It will just add to why she should leave you, not the other way around.
> 
> Is this what you want?


She is telling me the location, where she is at because of the lie.
I am just going to be quiet and do nothing. She is just baiting me.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> She is telling me the location, where she is at because of the lie.
> I am just going to be quiet and do nothing. She is just baiting me.


So your choice is:

- to take the bait
- not to take the bait

You've been down the first path. You know where it got you.

Care to try it again?


----------



## Bubbagumps

marduk said:


> So your choice is:
> 
> - to take the bait
> - not to take the bait
> 
> You've been down the first path. You know where it got you.
> 
> Care to try it again?


My belly is full. 
She is trying to " stay connected to me this trip so we dont loose each other" .... wierd.
and "it can be achieved and that it takes both people.... ie it's hard on people and you can maintain closeness if you both work at it"


----------



## happy as a clam

some_help said:


> ...but she didn't make a hill out of a mole.


Make a hill out of a mole? THAT would be difficult indeed!

Do you mean, "make a mountain out of a mole hill"?

:lol: :rofl:

Sorry, couldn't resist.  Just trying to add a little levity to Bubba's day.


----------



## Bubbagumps

happy as a clam said:


> Make a hill out of a mole? THAT would be difficult indeed!
> 
> Do you mean, "make a mountain out of a mole hill"?
> 
> :lol: :rofl:
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.  Just trying to add a little levity to Bubba's day.


I am just trying to decide how to reply to the texts if anything at all. going dark will be used against me. 
Facts like " its only 1:30 here" are about all I can think to use.


----------



## some_help

Bubbagumps said:


> She wants to travel. Bottom line she like it. I have put myself in her Point of View. She is not looking at anything but what she makes up, or tricks herself into believing. She even attempted to turn my family agianst me.


Your argument is basically this - just because YOU are "sacrificing" your happiness by not travelling, by not being out going, she should also do the same. Or else she should be divorced.

Sorry to say brother, but going by this attitude of yours, I think she is better off without you. Just feel sorry for the child.


----------



## some_help

happy as a clam said:


> Make a hill out of a mole? THAT would be difficult indeed!
> 
> Do you mean, "make a mountain out of a mole hill"?
> 
> :lol: :rofl:
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.  Just trying to add a little levity to Bubba's day.


:iagree: Probably my first attempt will throw you off your chair "trying to make a mole out of a hill"  :rofl:. 

English is not my first language.


----------



## Bubbagumps

some_help said:


> Your argument is basically this - just because YOU are "sacrificing" your happiness by not travelling, by not being out going, she should also do the same. Or else she should be divorced.
> 
> Sorry to say brother, but going by this attitude of yours, I think she is better off without you. Just feel sorry for the child.


Perhaps you misunderstood the situation?


----------



## PM1

"This choice is hers to make, not mine, my choice never changed. Family First, there are millions of jobs, if a career is more important than the things that love her back, then that is her choice. "

If you are basically asking what her choice is, she makes it every time she leaves home. And why not, when you don't actually do anything about it. She gets the best of everything, travel and you don't make things change. Seems to me you either get over it and just let her travel and stop worrying about it, or if you cannot do that, you need to take action to make it clear to her that the status quo is not acceptable to you. You cannot MAKE her stop, but you can make sure that your boundary is clearly defined, and then hold to it.

And don't just do it because you got advice here and she's gone right now. Do what you need to do to stay healthy and for your kid's best interest. Somewhere out there is a man who wouldn't care in your situation, but if that's not you, then you need to make some form of change.


----------



## some_help

Bubbagumps said:


> Perhaps you misunderstood the situation?


May be. I haven't read the whole thread. But a two year old kid is what made me write my post. I also feel from your wife's replies that she feels bad about lying. Any way, am sure you are a better judge of the situation.


----------



## Bubbagumps

PM1 said:


> "This choice is hers to make, not mine, my choice never changed. Family First, there are millions of jobs, if a career is more important than the things that love her back, then that is her choice. "
> 
> If you are basically asking what her choice is, she makes it every time she leaves home. And why not, when you don't actually do anything about it. She gets the best of everything, travel and you don't make things change. Seems to me you either get over it and just let her travel and stop worrying about it, or if you cannot do that, you need to take action to make it clear to her that the status quo is not acceptable to you. You cannot MAKE her stop, but you can make sure that your boundary is clearly defined, and then hold to it.
> 
> And don't just do it because you got advice here and she's gone right now. Do what you need to do to stay healthy and for your kid's best interest. Somewhere out there is a man who wouldn't care in your situation, but if that's not you, then you need to make some form of change.


Can you help me define possible acceptable boundries?


----------



## Bubbagumps

some_help said:


> May be. I haven't read the whole thread. But a two year old kid is what made me write my post. I also feel from your wife's replies that she feels bad about lying. Any way, am sure you are a better judge of the situation.


It is very long, and really snowballed, and not in a good way. I know she feels bad, I am doing what is best for our child. I tried everything I could to correct the situation.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> Can you help me define possible acceptable boundries?


Why?

Do this in IC, man.

You have a tough road ahead of you.

What I mean to say is, don't start texting/calling her about boundaries.


----------



## Marduk

Bubbagumps said:


> It is very long, and really snowballed, and not in a good way. I know she feels bad, I am doing what is best for our child. I tried everything I could to correct the situation.


No you haven't. Not even close.

I grant you a lot. You're in a tough place. You've been given a **** sandwich to eat and you've done the best you could.

But this whole last trip in my mind was one giant test, and OK you busted her, but you also rapidly lost all control over the situation, and she just called your bluff and did it again.

And she 100% expects to do it again. Because you let her.

Don't focus on controlling her. You will never control her. 

Focus on controlling yourself. You're in a doom spiral, and so is she. The difference between you two is that you see it and she doesn't.


----------



## ladymisato

Bubbagumps said:


> She tried before this trip, I did not take the bait. In the past before and after return from a trip.


I realize I'm asking you to speculate, but what would you guess was her purpose in picking a fight?



> She explained the need for me to see a marrige counsiler because she said I had irrational thoughts. Once the consiler saw through the bull****, she decided we did not need to go anymore.


I think my wording was not good. What I meant to ask was, when you met the counselor, how did she present these trips to the counselor? How did she justify leaving you for several weeks in front of the counselor?

In her mind, what is the explanation for the trips?


----------



## Nucking Futs

some_help said:


> Dear OP, this is my first post on this website. It was while reading through your posts that I decided to join the website and share my 2 cents.
> 
> *I haven't read the entire thread but I guess* you are really upset about:


This is _always_ a mistake. Don't offer advice that affects peoples lives based on a guess when you have the information at your fingertips. Educate yourself to the specific situation, then if you have something to say have at it.



some_help said:


> 1) She has said specifically TO YOU that she wants another kid. Women are very strongly clear about issues like having kids.* If she were having an affair, she wouldn't have mentioned this to YOU.*


Dead wrong. A wife suddenly talking about having another child can be a red flag for an affair. Taken by itself, no, but if you have other signs of an affair this frequently means that she got pregnant by her affair partner and is planning to commit paternity fraud.



some_help said:


> Finally, Research tells you that women are always better at bouncing out of a break up/divorces (being socially far far smarter than us). So you basically stand to lose a lot - your kid, your health, a marriage - for something which IMHO is rather trivial.


I call BS on this. Link the research you're referring to.


----------



## TRy

some_help said:


> Your argument is basically this - just because YOU are "sacrificing" your happiness by not travelling, by not being out going, she should also do the same. Or else she should be divorced.


 I guess you missed that part where she purposely waited until the last minute to tell him about an optional non-work required trip to a conference, that he would have gladly gone to with her if she told him in time (she planned it with others months in advance), because she did not want him to go so that she could get drunk and secretly "party" (her word) until the wee hours with other men from her past without him, or that she lied to him about it until he caught her in a number of lies?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Don't return any texts. Turn your phone off and ignore them.


----------



## PM1

Bubbagumps said:


> Can you help me define possible acceptable boundries?


Sorry, I cannot help you define your boundaries. That was sort of my point. Is your boundary that you cannot be with someone who travels a lot and puts travel above your marriage? if so, you have a choice to make to enforce your boundary. Again, you cannot *make* her stop, but you could set a clear boundary of what you are willing to accept, and stand by it. I think that is what some people are pushing you to file for, it sends a very clear message. And while that won't *make* her stop, she could certainly *choose* to stop traveling so much if she wants to stay married to you. The risk to you though is she may choose NOT to be married to you based on your boundary needs. In which case you better not have been just bluffing. I read on here, "you have to be ready to end the relationship to save it" or something similar. 

The other side of the coin, if you are not willing to draw a line and stand by it, then get over the issue with travel. As I said, some people might not be bothered by that, and those people wouldn't be having the stress you are. (although the behavior of one's spouse when traveling still would factor in). 

An example boundary I read here are things like "I won't be married to someone who dates other people." That means if the person you are with crosses that boundary, you choose not to be with them. But in the end, only you can really determine what your boundaries are. And only she can determine which of those she is willing to work within.


----------



## ObjectOfAffection

Bubbagumps said:


> Well the reading material was dismissed instantly.
> From her: "The links/ articles were fine. But I'm failing to draw parallels to our situation. I know you don't like me justifying the duration, but all of those sources talk about being gone consistently every week of the year for 4+ days. That's not me. That's not us. This month has been atypical... i will agree to that... but I am NOT gone every week of the year.... or even 1 week every month. "


OP - how often does your wife travel? You've mentioned that THIS month there were 2 planned trips, and she would be gone 1/2 of March. 

How much does she travel usually? She stated to you that this month was atypical, and that she doesn't even travel a week a month.


----------



## Chaparral

Did she turn her find my phone back on?


----------



## synthetic

Bubba you're doing well.

Filter out all the wishy-washy crap you get fed by people who are not in your shoes. This is your time to lead your life, not to speculate on what might become of your wife and her selfish lifestyle. Time to be a man. Your wife has lost respect for you. It's very important to establish a minimum level of respect for yourself. You can only do this by taking firm actions that speak clearly of your boundaries and intentions.

Your intention is to provide a healthy fatherhood for your daughter, and be loved, respected and reasonably attended to by your spouse (either your current wife, or your future partners)

4 things:

1. Get the lawyer

2. Have the lawyer file for divorce while your wife is still away (this is to ensure both you and her understand the divorce is a direct consequence of her choice to travel and lie)

3. Do not give her time to think by telling her about divorce beforehand. She could just as easily lawyer up and gain the upper hand by baiting you into conversations that could affect your custody case.

4. Respond to her texts as you normally would. Saying things like "Okay", "Thanks", "Good night" and etc.


----------



## EleGirl

synthetic said:


> The only concern is custody. For that reason alone, I would lawyer up right away (While she's away) to make the best possible custody case.
> 
> She's not going to play nice. Have no doubt.
> 
> Again, file for divorce NOW. It will look a lot better for your custody battle. The judge will see why you filed given the timeline.
> 
> "She left for Europe and I filed" is a lot better than "She left, came back, left again, came back, we're divorcing and now I want custody of my daughter"


This is ridiculous. One or two business trips will not affect custody. Him filing while she's on a business trip in an attempt to get custody will not bode well for him.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

My best advice: don't listen to people on the internet (on either side) regarding legal strategy for something as important and costly as divorce and custody.


----------



## tom67

WorkingOnMe said:


> My best advice: don't listen to people on the internet (on either side) regarding legal strategy for something as important and costly as divorce and custody.


:iagree:
He has to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.
I always suggest mediation.
This case I would suggest he file and go from there.
Again don't know what county, state he is in and don't want to know if it hurts him.


----------



## EleGirl

Bubbagumps,

Wow, your wife travels only a few times a year for work. And this is how people think is how it should be handled?

If I had a nervous breakdown every time my husband traveled for work because I was left with kids for a few days while I also worked full time, I'd be in a mental institute by now.

If you think it's hard being alone with a child for the rare 2 weeks she is traveling this month.. wait until you have to handle your child on your own 50% of the time and your household completely on your own 100% of the time. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Yes she told some 'white' lies. You don't make it easy to be truthful to you. It is not an excuse for her lying. But you contributed to this. You did not get sleep while she was gone because you were in the middle of having a nervous breakdown in an attempt to control her. 

Divorce is not your answer here. The two of you desperately need counseling. Not just one or two meeting where the counselor 'humbles' your wife. That's not marriage counseling. That is not what marriage counselors do. Find a marriage counselor who does not pick sides but instead gives the two of you strategies to solve your problems.

Your wife is right. If you sent her links to articles about spouses who travel all the time, it has no relevance to your marriage since your wife does not travel that often.


----------



## synthetic

EleGirl said:


> Bubbagumps,
> 
> Wow, your wife travels only a few times a year for work. And this is how people think is how it should be handled?
> 
> If I had a nervous breakdown every time my husband traveled for work because I was left with kids for a few days while I also worked full time, I'd be in a mental institute by now.
> 
> If you think it's hard being alone with a child for the rare 2 weeks she is traveling this month.. wait until you have to handle your child on your own 50% of the time and your household completely on your own 100% of the time. You ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> Yes she told some 'white' lies. You don't make it easy to be truthful to you. It is not an excuse for her lying. But you contributed to this. You did not get sleep while she was gone because you were in the middle of having a nervous breakdown in an attempt to control her.
> 
> Divorce is not your answer here. The two of you desperately need counseling. Not just one or two meeting where the counselor 'humbles' your wife. That's not marriage counseling. That is not what marriage counselors do. Find a marriage counselor who does not pick sides but instead gives the two of you strategies to solve your problems.
> 
> Your wife is right. If you sent her links to articles about spouses who travel all the time, it has no relevance to your marriage since your wife does not travel that often.


Terrible stuff. I hope no one takes crap like this seriously.

You obviously have no idea what Bubba is going through. You're just mumbling some useless script that is guaranteed to land him in TAM's "Coping with Infidelity" section. 

Bubba, as I suggested, respect your gut-feeling and filter out all the wishy-washy garbage. BE A MAN (with balls). Lead your life and take firm actions when your boundaries are crossed.

Your boundaries have been crossed over and over without any action on your part. If you entertain the status-quo for even one more day, you'll have a lot of regrets in the future. 

Never forget: You're the man of the house. There should be a clear meaning to that. The adult part of your brain is screaming for you to hold your wife accountable for the hurt she has caused. Listen to it. It's always right.

BTW, I present you with a gift. Pour yourself some tea or any drink and read this wonderful piece. It saved my life: 

http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html


----------



## Decorum

EleGirl said:


> Bubbagumps,
> 
> Wow, your wife travels only a few times a year for work. And this is how people think is how it should be handled?
> 
> If I had a nervous breakdown every time my husband traveled for work because I was left with kids for a few days while I also worked full time, I'd be in a mental institute by now.
> 
> If you think it's hard being alone with a child for the rare 2 weeks she is traveling this month.. wait until you have to handle your child on your own 50% of the time and your household completely on your own 100% of the time. You ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> Yes she told some 'white' lies. You don't make it easy to be truthful to you. It is not an excuse for her lying. But you contributed to this. You did not get sleep while she was gone because you were in the middle of having a nervous breakdown in an attempt to control her.
> 
> Divorce is not your answer here. The two of you desperately need counseling. Not just one or two meeting where the counselor 'humbles' your wife. That's not marriage counseling. That is not what marriage counselors do. Find a marriage counselor who does not pick sides but instead gives the two of you strategies to solve your problems.
> 
> Your wife is right. If you sent her links to articles about spouses who travel all the time, it has no relevance to your marriage since your wife does not travel that often.


I think these are valid points.

I think the problem is that he is really not prepared to handle the tools he was handed here.

What has really hurt him was the (typical) dithering. The result is that he escalated it too fast.

He was not acting from strength but desperation and now he is in despair and ready to walk.

She has never believed his resolve and that is what hurt him and that is what he should have established, but failed to.

The dithering makes the whole situation seem unstable to her (right or wrong) and brings into question the long term viability of their marriage (in her thinking).

The goal is not to make her think you will throw it all away if you don't get what you want, its to let her know that you say what you mean an mean what you say.

People only push you when they think they can get away with it. First and foremost this is a leadership problem and he has not resolved that at all, and he is ready to divorce.

Its hard as hell to hold the line but still offer grace and understanding, but that is what strength is all about. That is what men do.

She should be the one who is doing emotional summersaults, instead she has been saying jump and he asks how high.

This marriage should be nowhere close to over yet, and its not too late but can he man up? Or is he so weak that unless she has an immediate epiphany its over.

He almost has to file now, but he needs to have a detached but benevolent resolve and give leadership.

He seems to be an "either/or" kind of person, he needs to do both, but he is not showing the skills to do it.

Like the guy who gets his CC, buys a hand gun sticks it in his waistband and thinks he is prepared and protected.

Its hard to believe inappropriate lines have not been crossed by her on these trips, and all the drama, fighting, and now the serving while away will only make that more likely.

He has a problem, he has made it much worse, he should not use what capitol he has left to push her away.


----------



## Dogbert

OP, if you knew this would be your life, would you have married the woman who is now your wife?


----------



## Chaparral

I don't think you understand your roll in this breakdown of your marriage. I think your wife is using travelnas an escape.

Did you read MMSLP? I don't see where you understand the roll you have to play in order to stay attractive to your wife.


----------



## Omar174

EleGirl said:


> Bubbagumps,
> 
> Wow, your wife travels only a few times a year for work. And this is how people think is how it should be handled?
> 
> If I had a nervous breakdown every time my husband traveled for work because I was left with kids for a few days while I also worked full time, I'd be in a mental institute by now.
> 
> If you think it's hard being alone with a child for the rare 2 weeks she is traveling this month.. wait until you have to handle your child on your own 50% of the time and your household completely on your own 100% of the time. You ain't seen nothing yet.
> 
> Yes she told some 'white' lies. You don't make it easy to be truthful to you. It is not an excuse for her lying. But you contributed to this. You did not get sleep while she was gone because you were in the middle of having a nervous breakdown in an attempt to control her.
> 
> Divorce is not your answer here. The two of you desperately need counseling. Not just one or two meeting where the counselor 'humbles' your wife. That's not marriage counseling. That is not what marriage counselors do. Find a marriage counselor who does not pick sides but instead gives the two of you strategies to solve your problems.
> 
> Your wife is right. If you sent her links to articles about spouses who travel all the time, it has no relevance to your marriage since your wife does not travel that often.


How dare you bring logic and common sense in to this discussion!


----------



## Omar174

synthetic said:


> Terrible stuff. I hope no one takes crap like this seriously.
> 
> You obviously have no idea what Bubba is going through. You're just mumbling some useless script that is guaranteed to land him in TAM's "Coping with Infidelity" section.
> 
> Bubba, as I suggested, respect your gut-feeling and filter out all the wishy-washy garbage. BE A MAN (with balls). Lead your life and take firm actions when your boundaries are crossed.
> 
> Your boundaries have been crossed over and over without any action on your part. If you entertain the status-quo for even one more day, you'll have a lot of regrets in the future.
> 
> Never forget: You're the man of the house. There should be a clear meaning to that. The adult part of your brain is screaming for you to hold your wife accountable for the hurt she has caused. Listen to it. It's always right.
> 
> BTW, I present you with a gift. Pour yourself some tea or any drink and read this wonderful piece. It saved my life:
> 
> DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?


This is absolute garbage. 

The only way this would make any sense whatsoever is if Bubba's boundaries were reasonable. They aren't. 

Yes, she lied. Yes, it was wrong of her. Yes, she delayed telling him about a trip. But it was nothing more then an ill-advised coping mechanism. Kind of like lying to a kid so the kid won't throw a tantrum. 

Bubba is a paranoid emotional and mental train wreck. The man needs help. Unfortunately, he has found some people here who will fuel his paranoia. 

Though I will say, I'm starting to think he kind of likes being miserable.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> I don't think you understand your roll in this breakdown of your marriage. I think your wife is using travelnas an escape.
> 
> Did you read MMSLP? I don't see where you understand the roll you have to play in order to stay attractive to your wife.


This^^^ is very important in my opinion we (guys) become "beta" when married some more than others.
It is a tool to get off the "beta train" but you have to live it.


----------



## yeah_right

The travel itself is not so bad. People sometimes have to travel for work. It's how you behave that makes a HUGE difference.

Waiting until the last minute to tell H about non-mandatory trip so he can't come is not cool. Even if you just want to get away from an over-dramatic spouse. It's your spouse! You made that choice.

Saying you're going to bed early, and then getting drunk and partying until 1AM with non-coworker male friend(s) is not cool. And this male friend just happened to be visiting the same town as her at the same time? Serendipitous!!!!

Gaslighting spouse after being busted in lies is not cool.

Refusing to go to additional marriage counseling after not hearing what you want is not cool.

I'm all for gender equality on spouses' ability to have careers. I'm not for people who want to use it as their personal party time at the expense of their families. If people want to act like they're single, they should do so...as single people.


----------



## Marduk

Omar174 said:


> This is absolute garbage.
> 
> The only way this would make any sense whatsoever is if Bubba's boundaries were reasonable. They aren't.
> 
> Yes, she lied. Yes, it was wrong of her. Yes, she delayed telling him about a trip. But it was nothing more then an ill-advised coping mechanism. Kind of like lying to a kid so the kid won't throw a tantrum.
> 
> Bubba is a paranoid emotional and mental train wreck. The man needs help. Unfortunately, he has found some people here who will fuel his paranoia.
> 
> Though I will say, I'm starting to think he kind of likes being miserable.


I agree with you that he seriously contributed to this situation. Go back and read the whole thing. A lot of this is on him.

A lot, but not all.

She's running. Searching. Rebelling. All because he seeks to control, to check, to verify... a lack of trust, basically.

The thing is...

When he did have a panic attack, she didn't come home. She didn't stop partying. She didn't cancel or defer trips that were just for fun. Instead of going back to MC when she heard things she didn't want to hear, she ran again.

That stuff is on her.

She's a runner. Let her run.

They are caught in a dynamic where he chases and blusters, and she runs. She's already lied -- understandibly or not -- this is a negative dynamic that they are both caught in.

Sitting down rationally with her is going to be problematic. If the MC was good... then he has stuff to work on, and so does she.

But I do know one thing from my own trials and tribulations, and I have experience seeking to control my wife to feel safe: if your spouse's default response is to run away and lie...

Well, that ain't good, and the runner and lier needs to work on that, too.

He totally lost control when she went away last time. Why most of us recommended going dark.

Unfortunately now the path of greatest success that I see is to go dark, file, and have him consider if he wants this. I mean well and truly consider it. Her, as well.

If they both come back together on common ground and equal footing -- which means that they are both partly in the right and both partly to blame and they work on that -- sure.

But that's clearly not what's happening.


----------



## EleGirl

synthetic said:


> Terrible stuff. I hope no one takes crap like this seriously.


I call it as I see it. 



synthetic said:


> You obviously have no idea what Bubba is going through. You're just mumbling some useless script that is guaranteed to land him in TAM's "Coping with Infidelity" section.


I read every post on this thread last night. Much of it for the second time. If my husband pulled this I cannot even handle taking care of my own child and my own home for a week or two once a year crap I’m not sure I’d bother coming home. 

His wife earns 50% of the income. Her job is just as important to the family as is his.

He’s complaining that he had to take time off work to take his daughter the doctor. Really? So who usually takes his daughter to the doctor? I guess that’s his wife because obviously it is so out of his normal way of doing things that he cannot handle it without a meltdown.

Maybe, just maybe, his wife did these two trips this month purposely to leave him alone so he could see that she usually does to balance her job and taking care of things like taking her daughter to the doctor.



synthetic said:


> Bubba, as I suggested, respect your gut-feeling and filter out all the wishy-washy garbage. BE A MAN (with balls). Lead your life and take firm actions when your boundaries are crossed.
> 
> Your boundaries have been crossed over and over without any action on your part. If you entertain the status-quo for even one more day, you'll have a lot of regrets in the future.


If he files for divorce his marriage is over. If he were my husband and he was pulling this whinny nervous breakdown act while I was on a very rare business trip (she usually travels less than once a month and usually for only 2-3 days) I’d probably file for divorce when I got back. If he’s acting like this for these two trips, this is his method of operating anytime he does not get his way. This kind of antic has been going on for years.. I have no doubt. 



synthetic said:


> Never forget: You're the man of the house. There should be a clear meaning to that. The adult part of your brain is screaming for you to hold your wife accountable for the hurt she has caused. Listen to it. It's always right.


Yes, you are the man of the house. And the man of the house should be man enough to be able to function without falling apart and throwing a hissy fit if his wife, who earns half the family income, has to travel for 2 weeks in one month one time in their marriage. Let’s not forget that the OP is objecting to ALL travel. He does not want her to do any business travel at all so this is not just about this one month.


----------



## EleGirl

Decorum said:


> I think these are valid points.
> 
> I think the problem is that he is really not prepared to handle the tools he was handed here.
> 
> What has really hurt him was the (typical) dithering. The result is that he escalated it too fast.
> 
> He was not acting from strength but desperation and now he is in despair and ready to walk.
> 
> She has never believed his resolve and that is what hurt him and that is what he should have established, but failed to.
> 
> The dithering makes the whole situation seem unstable to her (right or wrong) and brings into question the long term viability of their marriage (in her thinking).
> 
> The goal is not to make her think you will throw it all away if you don't get what you want, its to let her know that you say what you mean an mean what you say.
> 
> People only push you when they think they can get away with it. First and foremost this is a leadership problem and he has not resolved that at all, and he is ready to divorce.
> 
> Its hard as hell to hold the line but still offer grace and understanding, but that is what strength is all about. That is what men do.
> 
> She should be the one who is doing emotional summersaults, instead she has been saying jump and he asks how high.
> 
> This marriage should be nowhere close to over yet, and its not too late but can he man up? Or is he so weak that unless she has an immediate epiphany its over.
> 
> He almost has to file now, but he needs to have a detached but benevolent resolve and give leadership.
> 
> He seems to be an "either/or" kind of person, he needs to do both, but he is not showing the skills to do it.
> 
> Like the guy who gets his CC, buys a hand gun sticks it in his waistband and thinks he is prepared and protected.
> 
> Its hard to believe inappropriate lines have not been crossed by her on these trips, and all the drama, fighting, and now the serving while away will only make that more likely.
> 
> He has a problem, he has made it much worse, he should not use what capitol he has left to push her away.


Why is it wrong for a wife to travel for her job once in a while?

This two weeks in one month is not normal travel schedule for her. Usually it's less than only and less than a week when she does travel.

Why is it ok for a husband to think he can control his wife in this manner?


----------



## Omar174

marduk said:


> I agree with you that he seriously contributed to this situation. Go back and read the whole thing. A lot of this is on him.
> 
> A lot, but not all.
> 
> She's running. Searching. Rebelling. All because he seeks to control, to check, to verify... a lack of trust, basically.
> 
> The thing is...
> 
> When he did have a panic attack, she didn't come home. She didn't stop partying. She didn't cancel or defer trips that were just for fun. Instead of going back to MC when she heard things she didn't want to hear, she ran again.
> 
> That stuff is on her.
> 
> She's a runner. Let her run.
> 
> They are caught in a dynamic where he chases and blusters, and she runs. She's already lied -- understandibly or not -- this is a negative dynamic that they are both caught in.
> 
> Sitting down rationally with her is going to be problematic. If the MC was good... then he has stuff to work on, and so does she.
> 
> But I do know one thing from my own trials and tribulations, and I have experience seeking to control my wife to feel safe: if your spouse's default response is to run away and lie...
> 
> Well, that ain't good, and the runner and lier needs to work on that, too.
> 
> He totally lost control when she went away last time. Why most of us recommended going dark.
> 
> Unfortunately now the path of greatest success that I see is to go dark, file, and have him consider if he wants this. I mean well and truly consider it. Her, as well.
> 
> If they both come back together on common ground and equal footing -- which means that they are both partly in the right and both partly to blame and they work on that -- sure.
> 
> But that's clearly not what's happening.


I've been commenting on this thread since day 1. So I have read it. A number of times. 

I think his wife's approach to the whole situation was wrong but not without explanation. Just my opinion. 

But...I think giving him advise to go dark, leave, divorce, and blaming it all on the wife, etc is the wrong approach. I don't think he is in a state of mind to make such a decision. God only knows what he would do if that happened, but it wouldn't be good I promise you that. 

I think he needs some individual help. And that is THE ONLY advice I would offer. Same thing I would say to a friend.


----------



## EleGirl

yeah_right said:


> The travel itself is not so bad. People sometimes have to travel for work. It's how you behave that makes a HUGE difference.
> 
> Waiting until the last minute to tell H about non-mandatory trip so he can't come is not cool. Even if you just want to get away from an over-dramatic spouse. It's your spouse! You made that choice.
> 
> Saying you're going to bed early, and then getting drunk and partying until 1AM with non-coworker male friend(s) is not cool. And this male friend just happened to be visiting the same town as her at the same time? Serendipitous!!!!
> 
> Gaslighting spouse after being busted in lies is not cool.
> 
> Refusing to go to additional marriage counseling after not hearing what you want is not cool.
> 
> I'm all for gender equality on spouses' ability to have careers. I'm not for people who want to use it as their personal party time at the expense of their families. If people want to act like they're single, they should do so...as single people.


I think that there are two reasons why she did not tell him.

He's controlling... he uses emotional 'breakdowns' to try to control her and get her to do what he wants. Why would she want to go through that.

Secondly, he cannot even take care of things by himself for one week without having a meltdown. She is obviously the one who takes the vast majority of the responsibility at home and with their daughter. Maybe, just maybe, she is taking this opportunity to show him how much she does and that he needs to step up to the plate.


----------



## yeah_right

EleGirl said:


> I think that there are two reasons why she did not tell him.
> 
> He's controlling... he uses emotional 'breakdowns' to try to control her and get her to do what he wants. Why would she want to go through that.
> 
> Secondly, he cannot even take care of things by himself for one week without having a meltdown. She is obviously the one who takes the vast majority of the responsibility at home and with their daughter. Maybe, just maybe, she is taking this opportunity to show him how much she does and that he needs to step up to the plate.



I get it. He's definitely part of the problem. I sense that he would annoy me quite often.

However, having an extremely annoying spouse does not give you the right to go out bar-hopping with a OSF until you're sloshed (and lie about it)...while supposedly out on business. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And for those on TAM who think it's ok to go out drinking with OSF, we'll just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Marduk

Omar174 said:


> I've been commenting on this thread since day 1. So I have read it. A number of times.
> 
> I think his wife's approach to the whole situation was wrong but not without explanation. Just my opinion.
> 
> But...I think giving him advise to go dark, leave, divorce, and blaming it all on the wife, etc is the wrong approach. I don't think he is in a state of mind to make such a decision. God only knows what he would do if that happened, but it wouldn't be good I promise you that.
> 
> I think he needs some individual help. And that is THE ONLY advice I would offer. Same thing I would say to a friend.


Agreed on the IC. Wholeheartedly.

Going dark is as much about not digging the hole deeper as anything. That, and she won't take him seriously anyway, and even if she does, well... what happened last time?

When he's nice, she travels. When he's supportive, she travels. When he asks her to tone it down, she travels. When he flips out, she travels. When he says me or the trip... she travels.

There's on consistent element there. 

Now, exactly the point. Why does she travel? To be free of him. Why does she lie? To be free of him. Why does she party without him? To be free of him.

And why does she want to be free of him?

At least partly it's because of his control issues.

However...

She's been remarkably consistent in her behaviour and trajectory. Even when he isn't.

MC didn't change it.

Asking didn't change it.

Threatening the marriage didn't change it.

So what will?


----------



## Marduk

Oh, to finish my point (sorry about that)...

They, of course, are deadlocked in a cycle. She is triggering his insecurity and his response is control which triggers her need to flee.

The problem, of course, is even if he fully nails his insecurity, will she stop running, and look at why she runs... and a better response to it?

What I'm basically saying is let her go.

"Wife, you want to travel and party and do it without me around or looking over your shoulder. I don't want a wife that wants to travel and party and not have me around. We want two different things. I propose we be free to go and get the life we want."

Now, her response to that can be whatever she wants it to be. If she's wise, she could say "Husband, your control and constant checking up on me is driving me crazy! If you agree to stop, I agree to only travel X times a year and not go get drunk with other guys (or whatever is reasonable to her). And we go to MC and IC to work on our issues."

Or she could say "Husband, F you, good bye."

Now, I don't think she's going to do either of those things.

What I think she is going to do, is not take him seriously, continue to heap everything on him (and, to be clear, he needs to own his crap and she needs to own her crap), placate him in little ways, and then take off again.

Runners run. The only way to make them stop in my experience is to stop chasing them. And that only works sometimes.

Time will tell.


----------



## azteca1986

EleGirl said:


> If my husband pulled this I cannot even handle taking care of my own child and my own home for a week or two once a year crap I’m not sure I’d bother coming home.


You wouldn't come home to your own child? Mother of the Year

I call it as I see it.


----------



## EleGirl

I want address the idea that her response to anything he does is to travel. 

That makes it sound like she travels a huge amount. Outside of the onetime with 2 trips almost back to back, she doesn't travel much at all.

I think it would be a huge mistake for her to give into his emotional acting out over these t we two trips. Why is it that it's so wrong for her to travel for work occasionally? I do not get this attitude that it is wrong for her to travel for her job.... a few short trips a year.


----------



## Marduk

EleGirl said:


> I want address the idea that her response to anything he does is to travel.
> 
> That makes it sound like she travels a huge amount. Outside of the onetime with 2 trips almost back to back, she doesn't travel much at all.
> 
> I think it would be a huge mistake for her to give into his emotional acting out over these t we two trips. Why is it that it's so wrong for her to travel for work occasionally? I do not get this attitude that it is wrong for her to travel for her job.... a few short trips a year.


Good point. Let's clarify. Now I'm forgetting what I've discussed with him in PM and what is on the thread.

Bubba, exactly how much does she travel, when did it become a problem, and how much of it is for work and how much of it is for play?


----------



## Omar174

EleGirl said:


> I want address the idea that her response to anything he does is to travel.
> 
> That makes it sound like she travels a huge amount. Outside of the onetime with 2 trips almost back to back, she doesn't travel much at all.
> 
> I think it would be a huge mistake for her to give into his emotional acting out over these t we two trips. Why is it that it's so wrong for her to travel for work occasionally? I do not get this attitude that it is wrong for her to travel for her job.... a few short trips a year.





marduk said:


> Good point. Let's clarify. Now I'm forgetting what I've discussed with him in PM and what is on the thread.
> 
> Bubba, exactly how much does she travel, when did it become a problem, and how much of it is for work and how much of it is for play?


BINGO!!

Go back and read the first post. It made no sense to me that someone would get so worked up about a couple of trips, but the first two pages are full of "get a VAR", "lawyer up", "enter OM". All because of a couple of trips! I was the first to say WTF are you so worried about? In his following posts, it became very clear to me that this dude has some issues with separation anxiety, paranoia, etc., and I said as much. Of course a couple of people flamed me and it snowballed from there.:scratchhead:


----------



## Marduk

If I remember right, the traveling progressed from for work, to more often for work and play, to travel for play but do some work, to partying, etc.

And somewhere in there, but not the beginning, came the "it's getting too much" conversation.

But Bubba can clarify.


----------



## Omar174

tdwal said:


> I think the reaction was more to the lying and the partying with other men that drove that than just the amount of travel.


No, that came later. The only thing she did "wrong" at that point according to him, is that he has only given one week notice of her upcoming trips. 

As to the partying. She lied and she was wrong. But in the course of this thread it went from her going out for drinks with a group of people, to her partying/whoring around with other men.


----------



## synthetic

Man this thread just became a source of anguish for me. A lot of bad analysis and advice. Perhaps I should back out of this one. I have no doubt there will be a follow up thread in the very near future. It'll probably be titled *"HELP! Wife is leaving with her new boyfriend. Wants to take son"*

Bubba, I stand by my opinion. Your wife will eventually break your heart even more and most likely cheat (if she hasn't already which I seriously doubt). At best, she will put together a plan to leave you and get custody. That much is obvious to me.

The only way you can gain your respect and individuality back is by showing her (and yourself) you are willing to end the marriage and fight for your son, hence my repeated suggestions to file for divorce immediately.

At the end of the day, I don't find your wife 'motherly' and 'loving' enough for my personal taste. I don't think you do either. No one can force you to change how you feel about this situation. It's how you feel and it's valid in my book.


----------



## Omar174

marduk said:


> If I remember right, the traveling progressed from for work, to more often for work and play, to travel for play but do some work, to partying, etc.
> 
> And somewhere in there, but not the beginning, came the "it's getting too much" conversation.
> 
> But Bubba can clarify.


As I recall.....

One trip was mandatory, the other was more of a conference type deal. Where we all know partying happens. Which to me isn't a problem. I've gone on such trips. Just because they aren't mandatory, doesn't mean they aren't very beneficial to a career. 

This was all too much for Bubba.


----------



## yeah_right

Omar174 said:


> But in the course of this thread it went from her going out for drinks with a group of people, to her partying/whoring around with other men.


Again, I may be on the conservative side due to my age. But to me, going out for drinks implies some happy hour activities with the co-workers on the work trip. Then back to the room to call the family, prep for the next day and then goof off on the laptop. Bar-hopping with male friend or friends (not sure of how many) who were not part of her travel work team, getting drunk with them and coming home at 1am? That's another issue. I would not call it whoring, but I would call it highly inappropriate. If not for the spouse, then to the company paying you to work without a hangover.

And if I recall (this thread is so dang long), she went out partying again the next night after caught in the lie. 

Part of me is not even sure how real this thread is, but I think the discussion itself is important. For those that travel for work, are boundaries important?


----------



## yeah_right

Omar174 said:


> As I recall.....
> 
> One trip was mandatory, the other was more of a conference type deal. *Where we all know partying happens. Which to me isn't a problem.* I've gone on such trips. Just because they aren't mandatory, doesn't mean they aren't very beneficial to a career.
> 
> This was all too much for Bubba.



I don't agree with this mindset for married folks, so we will probably never see eye-to-eye on this thread. C'est la vie.


----------



## Chaparral

EleGirl said:


> Why is it wrong for a wife to travel for her job once in a while?
> 
> This two weeks in one month is not normal travel schedule for her. Usually it's less than only and less than a week when she does travel.
> 
> Why is it ok for a husband to think he can control his wife in this manner?


It seems you are ignoring the lies, drinking and partying with other men and lying about her whereabouts.

I do not know a man that would have tolerated half that. However, his reaction was off the charts beta. All he did was make her party buddies look more manly and attractive.


----------



## Omar174

yeah_right said:


> I don't agree with this mindset for married folks, so we will probably never see eye-to-eye on this thread. C'est la vie.


I don't agree with you either, but I absolutely respect your opinion on this.


----------



## Omar174

tdwal said:


> And she went on a trip that she didn't tell him about until two days before.
> 
> "The most frustrating part of this is that both trips, she gave me no notice, when she knew about them 2 months before hand. One of the trips she just told me about 2 days ago and she is leaving next week. Her not telling me really grinded my gears."


Told him 2 days ago that she is leaving *next week*!

Anyways, this is getting ridiculous.


----------



## turnera

Bubbagumps said:


> Would a woman, who claims that I am not around 90% of the time feel smothered?


Yes, if your anxiety and your questioning make her feel like you're trying to parent her rather than partner her. I haven't read the whole thing yet, so I am NOT taking a stand as I don't know how this all turned out. Just stating this one thing.


----------



## Decorum

EleGirl said:


> Why is it wrong for a wife to travel for her job once in a while?
> 
> This two weeks in one month is not normal travel schedule for her. Usually it's less than only and less than a week when she does travel.
> 
> Why is it ok for a husband to think he can control his wife in this manner?


Ele, I am not sure why you are asking me these questions. Rather than re-read my own post, ha ha I will just answer them directly.

Its not wrong for a wife to travel, no problem there.




EleGirl said:


> This two weeks in one month is not normal travel schedule for her. Usually it's less than only and less than a week when she does travel.


I agreed with you when you posted this , that is why I quoted it. If there is more to this, then the OP needs to clarify as Marduk has requested.




EleGirl said:


> Why is it ok for a husband to think he can control his wife in this manner?


Does "in this manner" refer to the thread in general or my post in particular.

In the thread I think he has made himself look crazy and backed himself into a corner. Now he has to de-escalate it while giving actual leadership. I am not sure where to even begin.

"control his wife" 
Ele, seriously its not ok. My position is, say what you mean and mean what you say. That is actually a great place to start genuine communication from. Trying to control, manipulate, or passively assert sends mixed signals and has unintended consequences.

Now, his wife is being inappropriate and pushing boundaries (or so it would seem), while traveling, IMO

The marriage has it own problems that need to be addressed quite apart from the travel issue, an edit from op's first post...



Bubbagumps said:


> I have a wife that I have been married to for over 4 years.
> 
> No problems at all until recently.
> 
> Here is my problem. I hate it when she travels.
> 
> I do get very anxious when she travels.
> 
> There is more to why I hate her traveling (stresses us both out, time zone differances, ect) .
> 
> The most frustrating part of this is that both trips, she gave me no notice,
> 
> Her not telling me really grinded my gears.
> 
> To me if you want to have another child, you have to be present.
> 
> She has not been acting like herself, she said she "would not let anyone control her"
> 
> I am annoyed and disappointed that she is traveling for the conferance, as it is a party for 3 nights with a concert.
> 
> I have no idea if any of this makes sense.
> 
> The only thing we fight about is when she "has" to travel internationally.
> 
> I know I might seem like a total jerk, but I just want to remove the travel, its the biggest problem other than my insecurity.
> 
> I am at a total loss of what to do. I feel trapped and like the marriage is falling apart for no real reason.



I think its clear where the problem lies, and he is (sort of) following the advice as if this were infidelity. This is why I am saying that this marriage should be no where near "being over with".

By his own admission its his own insecurities not infidelity that are driving this.

I think he needs to establish his male leadership in the relationship. Guess what? The fear of loss that comes from obsessive, intrusive insecurities makes that almost impossible.

I know some may object to the term "male leadership", I don't mean the "calling the shots" type control model", be a strong man, not control but respect (self and spouse and vice versa), speak the truth in love, and listen, communicate, work it out type model. What else makes sense?






synthetic said:


> Man this thread just became a source of anguish for me. A lot of bad analysis and advice. Perhaps I should back out of this one. I have no doubt there will be a follow up thread in the very near future. It'll probably be titled *"HELP! Wife is leaving with her new boyfriend. Wants to take son"*
> 
> Bubba, I stand by my opinion. Your wife will eventually break your heart even more and most likely cheat (if she hasn't already which I seriously doubt). At best, she will put together a plan to leave you and get custody. That much is obvious to me.
> 
> The only way you can gain your respect and individuality back is by showing her (and yourself) you are willing to end the marriage and fight for your son, hence my repeated suggestions to file for divorce immediately.
> 
> At the end of the day, I don't find your wife 'motherly' and 'loving' enough for my personal taste. I don't think you do either. No one can force you to change how you feel about this situation. It's how you feel and it's valid in my book.


I am not minimizing this, I think it is a real danger under the specific circumstances here, she is not using good judgment in my opinion, and is further alienating her husband by doing this. Don't exacerbate the situation, work on it with him.

I have traveled and been away for extended periods of time, my wife and I are like minded about this. I am social but with respect for my wife's concerns. I am not chasing happiness.


----------



## synthetic

I have no idea when it became okay for a mother of a 2 year old to travel for work or leisure or whatever. It's NOT okay. It might be required under severe financial pressure and justified due to certain circumstances, but it's definitely NOT okay.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.


----------



## TRy

synthetic said:


> I have no idea when it became okay for a mother of a 2 year old to travel for work or leisure or whatever. It's NOT okay. It might be required under severe financial pressure and justified due to certain circumstances, but it's definitely NOT okay.


 This post is on topic as the OP started out this thread by titling it "Wife traveling for work, wants to have another kid?", and with him not being OK with having another child with her as long as she was traveling so much. This is a logical point of view. She makes the same money that he does and was unwilling to give up non-essential trips. 

Later the issue became her purposely waiting until the last minute to tell him about an optional non-work required trip to a conference, that he would have gladly gone to with her if she told him in time (she planned it with others months in advance), because she did not want him to go so that she could get drunk and secretly "party" (her word) until the wee hours with other men from her past without him, or that she lied to him about it until he caught her in a number of lies. This was a planned trip that had less to do with her career and more to do with her partying without her husband. Yes he is insecure, but that is what most people are called prior to discovering that their spouse is cheating on them, and being insecure does not give your spouse the right to cheat. I am the one that travels for business in my marriage, and according to my martial boundaries with my wife, what the OP's wife did on that trip was cheating.


----------



## synthetic

And by the way:

The slight amount of 'understanding' or sympathy she's showing these days in response to Bubba voicing his concern is precisely BECAUSE of her 2 year old, otherwise, she would disregard Bubba like a piece of used cloth.

That's what's awaiting him in the future when their son grows up.

I have no doubt.

Also, she has already cheated. I'm almost sure of that as well.


----------



## Decorum

synthetic said:


> I have no idea when it became okay for a mother of a 2 year old to travel for work or leisure or whatever. It's NOT okay. It might be required under severe financial pressure and justified due to certain circumstances, but it's definitely NOT okay.
> 
> That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.


With the qualifications you have included I am comfortable with your position. Where we might disagree is if her job required some travel I would think the parents would have to weight it as to whether it was to much or not.

I will tell you this, my wife and I have 4 children (all in college now). She would never have chosen to be away from them for an extended period of time, unless it was necessary.

That is what disturbed me about op's wife.

I question her core motivations. Something is overriding her mothering instinct.

Of course women vary here, I get that, but she is "not right".

Sometime after our youngest was born my wife was diagnosed with MS, this changed our life significantly, but it never changed my wife's drive as a mother.

I regularly took our children camping. shopping, to summer camps, their games etc, things that she was unable to go to, it was hard on her, she spent many many period in the hospital. I have turned down tens of thousands of dollars of work/year to be there. We lived on less. No regrets. She has been amazing in her efforts as a mom even facing what she has.

My simple motto "whatever it takes", IRL I don't get someone who would have a different attitude. Male/ female/ mother or father.

The travel here is a symptom as is his frustration, don't blow up the marriage before it is intelligently addressed.


----------



## turnera

Bubbagumps said:


> I will do my best.
> My marrige is threatened by something she refuses to admit. its simple at this point. *She chooses Travel over Family*.


Before you go there, and please try to admit that you ARE very reactionary, you build up a lot in your head, try to see what it's like from her side. YOU had the problem with travel in the beginning, not her. You expected her to work around YOUR dysfunction and YOUR anxiety, and for the most part the two of you were able to live on YOUR terms, not her terms. 

Until you weren't.

We always paint ourselves in the best possible light, so I'm going to guess that your anxiety has come up more than a few times in your marriage. I'm going to guess there have been some arguments about her traveling that lessened her feelings for you. I'm going to guess she's been feeling micromanaged, more than a little ticked off about your anxiety and her having to move her world around it (thus her insistence on you getting checked out). And that then, when you started going into anxiety overdrive on her trip, she'd had enough, and started biting back, turning off the spying technology.

Something to remember is that a person may be enjoying going on business trips because it gives her a different part of her identity apart from wife/mom. I've seen many times that that becomes vital to women, who basically never get to 'turn off' taking care of the husband and the kids. Business trips can become psychologically important to women, in terms of her feeling like a viable human being in and of herself - a valued employee, a grownup woman who can hold her own and doesn't have to be thought of as just your wife or their mother, and a person free to make her own decisions, and someone who can go on a business trip being treated with respect, without having to be hunted down, SPIED on, checked up on (does your hotel have a bar?), and probably embarrassed in front of her coworkers. 

Now, I'm not saying she's acted admirably, not at all. And if it turns out she's cheating and has been doing this to you all along, I apologize, 

But I AM trying to say she's not coming across as a conniving b*tch who wants to work you over. I think it's more likely that she's tried to live by your terms and now it's being ratcheted up with your anxiety, and y'all's lack of attention to your marriage. You've been together long enough that the PEA chemicals are gone from your bodies so there's no lust left. You've been together long enough that you've stopped putting on your best behavior for each other. Your anxiety, etc. - and whatever about her that bothers you - has put a damper on your feelings for each other. And to have it go to the extremes it has since you came here - the accusations, the checking up, all the riling up we contributed to (40 pages in 2-3 days!), going to the ER - which to the person having to live with the anxiety-ridden person can either bond you to them or turn you off...I'm just trying to say that BOTH of you owe it to yourselves to step back and do a little reckoning of the situation.

I've seen a LOT of assumptions on your part and a LOT of accusations and a LOT of posturing and a LOT of blaming her (let alone basically questioning her morality/decency) - over ONE night on a trip, and I have to be honest - I'm surprised SHE hasn't left YOU. She told you ahead of time you're being too controlling. And what did you do? You ramped it up. Think about it.


----------



## Decorum

synthetic said:


> And by the way:
> 
> The slight amount of 'understanding' or sympathy she's showing these days in response to Bubba voicing his concern is precisely BECAUSE of her 2 year old, otherwise, she would disregard Bubba like a piece of used cloth.
> 
> That's what's awaiting him in the future when their son grows up.
> 
> I have no doubt.
> 
> Also, she has already cheated. I'm almost sure of that as well.


The fish rots from the inside out.

I am afraid this may all be true as well, but we all know what happens trying to confront without evidence.

.


----------



## tom67

synthetic said:


> And by the way:
> 
> The slight amount of 'understanding' or sympathy she's showing these days in response to Bubba voicing his concern is precisely BECAUSE of her 2 year old, otherwise, she would disregard Bubba like a piece of used cloth.
> 
> That's what's awaiting him in the future when their son grows up.
> 
> I have no doubt.
> 
> Also, she has already cheated. I'm almost sure of that as well.


Cheating or not, the level of disrespect and the lies and the late night partying would make most guys insecure but for me and some others here would spell the end of this marriage.
Bubba just go see some lawyers.
Knowledge is power.


----------



## synthetic

turnera said:


> Now, I'm not saying she's acted admirably, not at all. And if it turns out she's cheating and has been doing this to you all along, I apologize,


Go back and read. She's already cheated. YOU of all people should and would figure it out right away Turnera.


----------



## azteca1986

TRy said:


> Later the issue became her purposely waiting until the last minute to tell him about an optional non-work required trip to a conference, that he would have gladly gone to with her if she told him in time (she planned it with others months in advance), because she did not want him to go so that she could get drunk and secretly "party" (her word) until the wee hours with other men from her past without him, or that she lied to him about it until he caught her in a number of lies.


We've had some amazing (and erroneous) lectures on boundaries in this thread, but my biggest problem with her is that she is an abysmal co-parent. See, you're allowed to take unilateral parenting decisions when you're the one that takes on the extra work, eg. "I'm taking him to the park". Nobody's business but me and the boy.

What is wholly unacceptable is that she chose to go on a non-essential 'work' trip and just dumped the kid on OP to go partying.


----------



## TRy

azteca1986 said:


> What is wholly unacceptable is that she chose to go on a non-essential 'work' trip and just dumped the kid on OP to go partying.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Marduk

synthetic said:


> Go back and read. She's already cheated. YOU of all people should and would figure it out right away Turnera.


I actually don't think she has.

Various reasons, some disclosed here, some not.

But I don't think she actually has.

At least, not yet.


----------



## turnera

> Just because you file it does not mean instant divorce.





Bubbagumps said:


> To her, it is.


This is what Dr. Harley calls a Disrespectful Judgment. It is you assuming YOU know what SHE thinks based on past words or actions. I've lost count of the people who've come here with cheating spouses and said if he's/she's cheating, I'm gone. And then they're not. Because they may SAY they're gone, but they're not ready to give up.

You have have a serious lack of real communication going on and a TON of sparring/barbs going back and forth. 

This whole thing has ratcheted up in 2-3 weeks out of almost nothing, BOTH of you backed into a corner and just spitting out whatever hurts the other person. 

You started out this thread loving your wife more than anything and, two weeks later, you're done with her? When all she's done is hide her activities one night, when she wanted to go out with her friends without you hounding her like a child (she DID say you were controlling before this all started) and then it all spiraled out of control over BOTH of you just reacting to the other one and NEITHER of you listening to each other. 

You're going to throw away a fairly good marriage and break up a family over THIS?


----------



## turnera

Bubbagumps said:


> Well the reading material was dismissed instantly.
> From her: "The links/ articles were fine. But I'm failing to draw parallels to our situation. I know you don't like me justifying the duration, but all of those sources talk about being gone consistently every week of the year for 4+ days. That's not me. That's not us. This month has been atypical... i will agree to that... but I am NOT gone every week of the year.... or even 1 week every month. "


And she's right.

You've been treating her like a child this entire month. What did you expect her to do? You've been trying to control her since you got married, because of your anxiety and insecurity. And she's mostly complied. And because THIS month, she did the unspeakable and dared to leave you in charge of the kids 50% of the - oh the horror, the man having to be 50% responsible. And you swiftly started taking her down a few pegs, checking up in her, humiliating her because of ONE night on ONE atypical trip. 

And because she didn't kiss your ass ENOUGH - how many times was she supposed to apologize for getting ticked off at your accusations and spiting you? - and because she tried to get YOU back down a peg or two to get back to equal status with you, you feel you deserve to divorce her?

I think you BOTH need to cool your heels and stop spitting at each other and just take a breather. You're both being ridiculous.


----------



## turnera

Nucking Futs said:


> A wife suddenly talking about having another child can be a red flag for an affair. Taken by itself, no, but if you have other signs of an affair this frequently


This frequently? She rarely travels. She AND he said it was an anomaly for her to be gone twice in one month. And the one month she did it, he pouted about it like a little baby. And tracked her down, egged on by us.

And a wife suddenly talking about having another child is ALSO a red flag for women who are unhappy in their marriage and think another child will bring them closer together.

I've seen three women in my own circle do this. And none of them was cheating.


----------



## farsidejunky

Turnera, I agree with about 90 percent of what you said. 

The only fly in the ointment is that the marriage counselor called her out, and she stopped going back. 

I see that as a red flag. And not necessarily for cheating, but definitely for not wanting to be held accountable for her actions.


----------



## turnera

synthetic said:


> Your boundaries have been crossed over and over without any action on your part.


Over and over? In a five-day period?


----------



## TRy

turnera said:


> When all she's done is hide her activities one night, when she wanted to go out with her friends without you hounding her like a child


 You left out that she "hide her activities" from her husband for months as she secretly planned the trip with others, because she specially did not want him to go. That the trip was for more than just one night. That these "friends" were other men that she knew from her past. And that she admitted that her intent was to get drunk and "party" with these other men behind the OP's back.

I ask you a question. Do you know which came first, his insecurities about her travel, or her getting drunk and partying until the wee hours with other men while on these trips? If you do not know the answer to that question, it is unfair to say that he "hounds her like a child".


----------



## turnera

yeah_right said:


> The travel itself is not so bad. People sometimes have to travel for work. It's how you behave that makes a HUGE difference.
> 
> Waiting until the last minute to tell H about non-mandatory trip so he can't come is not cool. Even if you just want to get away from an over-dramatic spouse.


Now, see, I have learned over the years just HOW to avoid my H's paranoia and nonstop badgering me to get me to agree to do things HIS way. And it is exactly what his wife did - not tell him until just before, so she didn't have to endure days or weeks of him trying to control the situation. 

And guess what else? I DO want to go on trips alone, because he IS over-dramatic. If he was the kind of husband who treated me like an equal and not something to be controlled to make himself feel better (sound familiar?), I'd love nothing else than for him to go with me, so I could have fun with him like you see in the movies. Instead, when he does go with me, when our family goes on trips, he makes us all miserable with his anxiety and need to be in the spotlight and need to control and...stuff.

I'm just saying there are reasons why people do things. We at TAM have somehow become some sort of vigilante group who, at the first sign of a recalcitrant spouse, scream burn her at the stake, she's no good, she's cheating. I'm ashamed to say I've participated. But I'm trying really hard these days to NOT ruin a marriage and family so quickly, to urge people to step back and just LISTEN to each other, and even to start trying to validate each other like they did when they were dating.

Communication is the key to everything and these two are NOT COMMUNICATING.


----------



## Nucking Futs

turnera said:


> This frequently? She rarely travels. She AND he said it was an anomaly for her to be gone twice in one month. And the one month she did it, he pouted about it like a little baby. And tracked her down, egged on by us.
> 
> And a wife suddenly talking about having another child is ALSO a red flag for women who are unhappy in their marriage and think another child will bring them closer together.
> 
> I've seen three women in my own circle do this. And none of them was cheating.


I expect better of you than to take a sentence fragment out of context and use it to make a false point. I've quoted the whole sentence below. 

It's insulting to be used in this manner.



Nucking Futs said:


> Dead wrong. A wife suddenly talking about having another child can be a red flag for an affair. Taken by itself, no, but if you have other signs of an affair *this frequently means that she got pregnant by her affair partner and is planning to commit paternity fraud. *


----------



## turnera

Chaparral said:


> It seems you are ignoring the lies, drinking and partying with other men and lying about her whereabouts.


Which happened ONE night, and AFTER he called her and said he'd checked up on her by calling the hotel to see if she was lying, correct?


----------



## azteca1986

turnera said:


> And she's right.
> 
> You've been treating her like a child this entire month. What did you expect her to do? You've been trying to control her since you got married, because of your anxiety and insecurity. And she's mostly complied. And because THIS month, she did the unspeakable and dared to leave you in charge of the kids 50% of the - oh the horror, the man having to be 50% responsible. And you swiftly started taking her down a few pegs, checking up in her, humiliating her because of ONE night on ONE atypical trip.


I'm sure this would be your response if the genders were reversed 

She needs to start to behave like a married mother of a toddler.


----------



## turnera

synthetic said:


> I have no idea when it became okay for a mother of a 2 year old to travel for work or leisure or whatever. It's NOT okay.


You've got to be kidding. 

I take it that it's ok for the FATHER to travel, though?


----------



## chaos

Unless BOTH the OP and his wife are willing to admit their shortcomings and seek out common ground, their marriage is on borrowed time.


----------



## turnera

synthetic said:


> Go back and read. She's already cheated. YOU of all people should and would figure it out right away Turnera.


Nope. Didn't see it. 

I saw her go out with friends, including - gasp! - male friends. And get back to her hotel at 1am.


----------



## turnera

farsidejunky said:


> Turnera, I agree with about 90 percent of what you said.
> 
> The only fly in the ointment is that the marriage counselor called her out, and she stopped going back.
> 
> I see that as a red flag. And not necessarily for cheating, but definitely for not wanting to be held accountable for her actions.


I agree, and I have SAID that she's behaved badly. But not wanting to go back to therapy she was PUSHED into going to via threat and at which she was resoundly called out in...I'd say that was a fairly normal reaction.

Does she need work? Obviously. Does that make her some sort of villain in all this? Hardly.


----------



## TRy

turnera said:


> Which happened ONE night, and AFTER he called her and said he'd checked up on her by calling the hotel to see if she was lying, correct?


 Not correct. She went out every night on that trip with at least one other night where she stayed out until late at night. Also, he did not call to tell her that he had confirmed with the hotel that she was lying until AFTER she lied about getting drunk and partying until the wee hours with these other men. 

I am amazed that you feel that it is OK to lie to your spouse about secretly planned non-required work trips with the intent to get drunk and party with other men from your past. If she does not respect her husband enough to tell him the truth or to want him to go on some of the more fun trips with her, why is she asking for another child with him?


----------



## Marduk

Need more from Bubba.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

TRy said:


> You left out that she "hide her activities" from her husband for months as she secretly planned the trip with others, because she specially did not want him to go. That the trip was for more than just one night. That these "friends" were other men that she knew from her past. And that she admitted that her intent was to get drunk and "party" with these other men behind the OP's back.
> 
> I ask you a question. Do you know which came first, his insecurities about her travel, or her getting drunk and partying until the wee hours with other men while on these trips? If you do not know the answer to that question, it is unfair to say that he "hounds her like a child".


Give me a break. She 'secretly' planned what you make out to be an orgy or something? Get real. She made plans to go to a conference. She likely called up old friends and said she'd be in their town, did they want to meet up.

Please find me the post where OP said she admitted that she planned for months to get drunk and party with other men. I must have missed it.

She met her FRIENDS all of ONE night, of ONE trip, and was back in her hotel by 1am. Wee hours? Please.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> Which happened ONE night, and AFTER he called her and said he'd checked up on her by calling the hotel to see if she was lying, correct?


Not sure what your point is here. She lied about what she was going to do, where she was going to be and who she was going to be with if I remember correctly. He became suspicious and found out the hotel did not have a bar. Then she admitted what she had done when he called her out.

People have different boundaries. Under no circumstances would I tolerate partying with other men till the wee hours.


----------



## turnera

Nucking Futs said:


> I expect better of you than to take a sentence fragment out of context and use it to make a false point. I've quoted the whole sentence below.
> 
> It's insulting to be used in this manner.


Ouch, NF, my apologies, I DID misread this. Please ignore my post, y'all.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> Give me a break. She 'secretly' planned what you make out to be an orgy or something? Get real. She made plans to go to a conference. She likely called up old friends and said she'd be in their town, did they want to meet up.
> 
> Please find me the post where OP said she admitted that she planned for months to get drunk and party with other men. I must have missed it.
> 
> She met her FRIENDS all of ONE night, of ONE trip, and was back in her hotel by 1am. Wee hours? Please.


She also partied with them the next night.


----------



## turnera

azteca1986 said:


> I'm sure this would be your response if the genders were reversed
> 
> She needs to start to behave like a married mother of a toddler.


Dude, she went out ONE night of ONE trip, of which she goes 4 times a year tops, normally. She's hardly Lady Madonna.


----------



## EleGirl

synthetic said:


> I have no idea when it became okay for a mother of a 2 year old to travel for work or leisure or whatever. It's NOT okay. It might be required under severe financial pressure and justified due to certain circumstances, but it's definitely NOT okay.
> 
> That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.


Are you saying that a father is not capable of taking care of a 2 year old child?

I have more faith in men, to include Bubba. 

Men travel for work all the time, no matter the age of their children. There is no reason that women cannot do the same thing.


----------



## Marduk

All you guys have valid points, but the data is partial. 

There's more here happening, fouls on both sides. 

Need more data, arguing with each other is pointless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## azteca1986

turnera said:


> Dude, she went out ONE night of ONE trip, of which she goes 4 times a year tops, normally. She's hardly Lady Madonna.


In her own words she went out "partying". If everything was above board why did she have to lie to put herself in that position.

Even she didn't try and defend her lying or her conduct. Why are you?


----------



## turnera

Chaparral said:


> Not sure what your point is here. She lied about what she was going to do, where she was going to be and who she was going to be with if I remember correctly. He became suspicious and found out the hotel did not have a bar. Then she admitted what she had done when he called her out.


Married to an anxiety-ridden man who has tried to mold her to HIS neurotic standards, she has obviously learned how to have SOME semblance of normalcy by not telling him everything up front. I know many people who do this. And when everyone wanted to go out, she did what I also have done - told white lies about WHERE she was going so that her husband wouldn't blow a gasket, guilt her, demand she come home or 'go to her room' (like a child), or find some way to humiliate her (which I'm sure has happened), she tried to be seen as a normal adult who could go out for drinks with other adults without having to ask permission.

And it backfired. AND SHE APOLOGIZED. PROFUSELY. OVER AND OVER. And he refused to accept that, goaded by us, and took it further. To the brink of divorce.

If I had to guess, I'd bet she thought she would get to act like a grownup for a few days, socialize - which she obviously doesn't do when she's at home since she says she takes care of the kid 90% of the time, meet up with old friends, and - yes, oh no! - drink real alcohol like real grownups do. While the OP drinks about 2 drinks a night, EVERY night.

She just didn't count on her husband having yet another nervous breakdown, which he has every year or two, and then getting so worked up he ends up in the ER.


----------



## azteca1986

Stop digging turnera


----------



## turnera

azteca1986 said:


> In her own words she went out "partying". If everything was above board why did she have to lie to put herself in that position.
> 
> Even she didn't try and defend her lying or her conduct. Why are you?


Because you guys have gone on a witch hunt and pushed this clearly unstable guy into demanding a divorce, and I want him to back the hell down. I'm angry that this ONE situation is being turned into a crucifixion of a person who does NOT have a marriage-long habit of being a horrible person, just because of the mindset here at TAM for stringing up women who dare step outside the box they 'belong' in.


----------



## EleGirl

turnera said:


> Married to an anxiety-ridden man who has tried to mold her to HIS neurotic standards, she has obviously learned how to have SOME semblance of normalcy by not telling him everything up front. I know many people who do this. And when everyone wanted to go out, she did what I also have done - told white lies about WHERE she was going so that her husband wouldn't blow a gasket, guilt her, demand she come home or 'go to her room' (like a child), or find some way to humiliate her (which I'm sure has happened), she tried to be seen as a normal adult who could go out for drinks with other adults without having to ask permission.
> 
> And it backfired. AND SHE APOLOGIZED. PROFUSELY. OVER AND OVER. And he refused to accept that, goaded by us, and took it further. To the brink of divorce.
> 
> If I had to guess, I'd bet she thought she would get to act like a grownup for a few days, socialize - which she obviously doesn't do when she's at home since she says she takes care of the kid 90% of the time, meet up with old friends, and - yes, oh no! - drink real alcohol like real grownups do. While the OP drinks about 2 drinks a night, EVERY night.
> 
> She just didn't count on her husband having yet another nervous breakdown, which he has every year or two, and then getting so worked up he ends up in the ER.


If I recall, there is all the 'man up' stuff that men on here are pushed to read and do. One of the things they are told to do is to just go out and start doing the things you want to do. Go out and give no explanation...do not be a beta and tell her everything you are doing. There is a thread I can point to at this time where the husband did just that because he was told to do it. He went to a sports game. When his wife asked where he is going.. he refused to tell her. Then he left. 

This is a lot like that, isn't it?


----------



## yeah_right

turnera said:


> Now, see, I have learned over the years just HOW to avoid my H's paranoia and nonstop badgering me to get me to agree to do things HIS way. And it is exactly what his wife did - not tell him until just before, so she didn't have to endure days or weeks of him trying to control the situation.
> 
> And guess what else? I DO want to go on trips alone, because he IS over-dramatic. If he was the kind of husband who treated me like an equal and not something to be controlled to make himself feel better (sound familiar?), I'd love nothing else than for him to go with me, so I could have fun with him like you see in the movies. Instead, when he does go with me, when our family goes on trips, he makes us all miserable with his anxiety and need to be in the spotlight and need to control and...stuff.
> 
> I'm just saying there are reasons why people do things. We at TAM have somehow become some sort of vigilante group who, at the first sign of a recalcitrant spouse, scream burn her at the stake, she's no good, she's cheating. I'm ashamed to say I've participated. But I'm trying really hard these days to NOT ruin a marriage and family so quickly, to urge people to step back and just LISTEN to each other, and even to start trying to validate each other like they did when they were dating.
> 
> Communication is the key to everything and these two are NOT COMMUNICATING.



95% of the time I agree with your posts. In this case, I'll have to disagree. I had several points in my post including the drinking with man or men (still have no confirmation on that), gaslighting and refusing to continue MC.

If this was reversed and it was me on here complaining about my H who decided on his own to leave me at home with the kiddo to go to Europe, would you tell me not to be mad? If he went out bar hopping and got drunk with a woman or women, that have no affiliation with the work trip...until 1am, should I be understanding when he calls me drunk when he had told me earlier he was going to bed? If my H went to MC with me and then quit when the counselor called him out on his behavior, is that ok?

I'm sorry that you would hide a trip from your H because you'd enjoy it more without him. If my H felt that way about me, we would most likely be divorced. We have both gone on trips for work without each other, and had separate trips for activities, but we plan ahead and the invitation to tag along is always on the table. 

I guess I don't know your story, but it makes me sad that your husband doesn't treat you well. I think the way the folks on TAM approach these issues is from our own individual marriages. I know people don't agree with me on my views on OSF and partying without the spouse. It is what it is.


----------



## Decorum

marduk said:


> All you guys have valid points, but the data is partial.
> 
> There's more here happening, fouls on both sides.
> 
> Need more data, arguing with each other is pointless.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Marduk you have walked the line on this as well as any man could, seen both sides, the man up side and the supportive side.

Its an uneasy balance for a balanced guy.

But yeah, need more info.


----------



## happy as a clam

turnera said:


> Married to an anxiety-ridden man who has tried to mold her to *HIS neurotic standards,* she has obviously learned how to have SOME semblance of normalcy by not telling him everything up front. I know many people who do this. And when everyone wanted to go out, she did what I also have done - *told white lies about WHERE she was going so that her husband wouldn't blow a gasket*, guilt her, demand she come home or 'go to her room' (like a child), or find some way to *humiliate* her (which I'm sure has happened), she tried to be seen as a normal adult who could go out for drinks with other adults without having to ask permission.
> 
> And it backfired. *AND SHE APOLOGIZED. PROFUSELY. OVER AND OVER.* And he refused to accept that, goaded by us, and took it further. To the brink of divorce.
> 
> If I had to guess, *I'd bet she thought she would get to act like a grownup for a few days*, socialize - which she obviously doesn't do when she's at home since she says she takes care of the kid 90% of the time, meet up with old friends, and - yes, oh no! - drink real alcohol like real grownups do. While the OP drinks about 2 drinks a night, EVERY night.
> 
> She just didn't count on her husband having yet another nervous breakdown, which he has every year or two, and then getting so worked up he ends up in the ER.


:iagree: :iagree:

*FWIW, I'm totally inclined to agree with turnera, as evidenced by my earlier posts in this thread...
*


happy as a clam said:


> *Ok, I know I'm probably gonna get 2x4'd with this response,* but I just got caught up on this thread and I am simply amazed at how quickly OP is ready to file for divorce.
> 
> *Filing for divorce on Monday? Because she lied about having some drinks with old friends?*
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I don't condone the lying AT ALL, but there isn't a shred of evidence that OPs wife is cheating on him! Sure, there's some shadiness and the lying IS terrible -- but why not have a heart-to-heart when she gets back and schedule some marriage counseling? Why file for divorce on Monday?
> 
> Plus, women who are cheating and living up the party girl life generally don't want to be pregnant. Maybe I'm missing something here that the rest of you all are seeing... :scratchhead:
> 
> Your original issue when you posted is that you hate the fact that your wife travels for work. And you realize now (through this thread) that it's not the traveling that you hate -- it's your wife's BEHAVIOR when traveling that you hate. Why not try to work this out -- she can switch jobs, find a different career, request for no more travel, or take you along on the trips -- before you file for divorce.
> 
> *This freight train is moving at warp speed. Holy Smokes!!* Something doesn't seem right here...





happy as a clam said:


> Ok, but *why not consider exploring treatment for your anxiety, your insecurity, and feeling trapped -- before you make such a huge decision like divorcing your wife: *
> 
> Anxiety and insecurity can cause false beliefs about issues and you may be way off the mark because you aren't seeing them clearly. Perhaps counseling would be helpful *before you chuck it all.*





happy as a clam said:


> *Filing for divorce on Monday seems HUGELY out of proportion to the "crime" of telling a lie and getting drunk*. If that's your line in the sand, fine. You're entitled to remain married or get divorced as you wish. But consider that you have a child involved too before pulling the plug over something that could probably be resolved through a face-to-face conversation. And some therapy thrown in there too.


----------



## azteca1986

turnera said:


> Because you guys have gone on a witch hunt and pushed this clearly unstable guy into demanding a divorce, and I want him to back the hell down.


I'm sorry tunera, I'm not "guys". All my posts in this thread have pointed out what a sh!t mother she is. So, leave your generalisations at the door. 

FYI, I have been the sole parent and guardian of our son since October. In that time my wife has:

Gone out partying = zero
Spent time with "old friends" = zero
Been unavailable 24/7 = zero
Lied to me about her whereabouts = zero

When I suggested my wife have lunch with my business partner, whom I trust implicitly, she declined "It wouldn't look right. I don't want to". So, I know a sh!tty mother from a good one. Thanks .


> I'm angry that this ONE situation is being turned into a crucifixion of a person who does NOT have a marriage-long habit of being a horrible person, just because of the mindset here at TAM for stringing up women who dare step outside the box they 'belong' in.


If you're angry you're fighting a "TAM" battle that has no business in this specific thread. 

Married women partying are put in the box of "massively unprofessional" and " Easy lay". That's society for you. It's nothing to do with TAM. The first step is: disregarding your own offspring. She's an easy mark for the wrong kinda guy.


----------



## tom67

Decorum said:


> Marduk you have walked the line on this as well as any man could, seen both sides, the man up side and the supportive side.
> 
> Its an uneasy balance for a balanced guy.
> 
> But yeah, need more info.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Yes more info.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

OP is notably absent from his thread....


----------



## chaos

bubbagumps,

I'm not excusing your wife's behavior - lies - but since she is not here, the only person I can convey my observations to is you. Your insecurity is contributing to the sinking of your marriage. It is tied to your aversion to uncertainty. But uncertainty is a part of life and how we deal with it determines our level of maturity and the success or failure of our relationships.

If you want to save your marriage then stop expressing to your wife her shortcomings and start working on resolving yours. Your insecurity should be at the top of your list.


----------



## TRy

turnera said:


> Please find me the post where OP said she admitted that she planned for months to get drunk and party with other men. I must have missed it.


 You did miss it, because the OP specifically stated that his wife "said she lied because she felt bad because she went there to party". As for her friends being other men, the OP stated that "She has no friends that are girls". Thus she "went their to party" with her friends which are all other men.


----------



## tom67

Guys I think they both need ic bad.
Bubba or his wife I forget who set up an MC appt.
His wife when called out said we don't need to go anymore.

Let's keep it simple...
If one spouse is the only person working on the marriage I would think we can agree what's the point?

Bubba good luck with whatever you decide I'm done until you come back.


----------



## TRy

turnera said:


> Dude, she went out ONE night of ONE trip, of which she goes 4 times a year tops, normally. She's hardly Lady Madonna.


 We are talking about more than one night. She was also out late the very next night. She turned off her GPS the next night, and when he asked her to text her a photo of her luggage in her room after she texted him that she was back in her room, she did not respond for a long time. Also, considering that the OP has stated that all of her friends are male, she was spending her time with her male friends the other nights too.


----------



## azteca1986

turnera said:


> She just didn't count on her husband having yet another nervous breakdown, *which he has every year or two*, and then getting so worked up he ends up in the ER.


So her best choice was tuning off her GPS? 

You are trying to defend the indefensible.


----------



## happy as a clam

azteca1986 said:


> Married women partying are put in the box of "massively unprofessional" and " Easy lay". That's society for you. It's nothing to do with TAM. The first step is: disregarding your own offspring. She's an easy mark for the wrong kinda guy.


All due respect azteca, but unless I'm mistaken, turnera is pointing out the husband's insecurities as driving much of the problems. Not blaming the wife on being an "easy lay."

Sorry if I've misinterpreted your meaning... :scratchhead:

I think it's time for me to call it a night; I'm clearly not hitting on all eight.


----------



## Marduk

I think the man up stuff is the same as the supportive stuff.

It just includes self-support, so it has a bit of an edge to it.

I think of it more like when the oxygen masks come down on a plane. You put your own one on first before you help anyone else.

So you don't pass out first.


----------



## turnera

yeah_right said:


> If this was reversed and it was me on here complaining about my H who decided on his own to leave me at home with the kiddo to go to Europe, would you tell me not to be mad? If he went out bar hopping and got drunk with a woman or women, that have no affiliation with the work trip...until 1am, should I be understanding when he calls me drunk when he had told me earlier he was going to bed? If my H went to MC with me and then quit when the counselor called him out on his behavior, is that ok?


My H goes on such trips all.the.time. He goes out and drinks. He tells me all about them. Hell, he takes his clients to strip clubs because that's where they want him to spend his company money on them. And we trust each other not to cheat. Just like OP does. Did, until you guys got hold of him.

As OP has repeatedly said, he has always trusted her until this.one.time. Which was blown way out of proportion by the men here and which dragged him all the way to the lawyer without getting ANY real conversation between OP and his wife. Just barbs back and forth egged on by us.

They need to stop this madness, quit texting, and vow to work this out once she gets home.


----------



## synthetic

turnera said:


> You've got to be kidding.
> 
> I take it that it's ok for the FATHER to travel, though?


Not entirely, but definitely more justified (only if it serves a purpose related to the offspring - for example financials). I'm one of those who actually believes there is a difference between a mother and a father's role when it comes to young (in this case a 2 year old) children. The mother's constant physical presence is absolutely vital, while the father's is not. 

That's the case in almost all mammals (certainly those we are related to) I don't know why we humans want to challenge our own nature!


----------



## tom67

synthetic said:


> Not entirely, but definitely more justified (only if it serves a purpose related to the offspring - for example financials). I'm one of those who actually believes there is a difference between a mother and a father's role when it comes to young (in this case a 2 year old) children. The mother's constant physical presence is absolutely vital, while the father's is not.
> 
> That's the case in almost all mammals (certainly those we are related to) I don't know why we humans want to challenge our own nature!


synthetic they need BOTH.
I think extensive travel for EITHER with young kids will hurt them.

I respect your opinion and what you went through though.


----------



## synthetic

tom67 said:


> synthetic they need BOTH.
> I think extensive travel for EITHER with young kids will hurt them.
> 
> I respect your opinion and what you went through though.


I don't disagree, but it's proven science that a baby's immediate yearning is always for 'mother' not 'father'. That accounts for something. 

Of course the absence of the father can hurt, but definitely not as much as the absence of the mother. 

Anyway, turnera and a few others are defending the indefensible as someone said, and I hope Bubba is smart enough to realize that.

His wife is a sh1tty mother and even sh1ttier lover. There's no doubt about that in my mind.

The infidelity is coming (though I believe it already has)


----------



## EleGirl

azteca1986 said:


> I'm sorry tunera, I'm not "guys". All my posts in this thread have pointed out what a sh!t mother she is. So, leave your generalisations at the door.
> 
> FYI, I have been the sole parent and guardian of our son since October. In that time my wife has:
> 
> Gone out partying = zero
> Spent time with "old friends" = zero
> Been unavailable 24/7 = zero


Really? You think that a mother who travels once every few months for a few day and visits with old friends is a sh!t mother? 

you really think that a mother must be available to her child 24/7? How can a woman work a job if she is available 24/7?


Is a man who travels for work a sh!t father? His is a sh!t father if he has a job and thus is not available 24/7?

Or does this only apply to woman?




azteca1986 said:


> Lied to me about her whereabouts = zero


This is the only thing that I see wrong at all in what she has done. And I think that Tunera is right about what's going on. 




azteca1986 said:


> When I suggested my wife have lunch with my business partner, whom I trust implicitly, she declined "It wouldn't look right. I don't want to". So, I know a sh!tty mother from a good one. Thanks .


Unbelievable comment.




azteca1986 said:


> If you're angry you're fighting a "TAM" battle that has no business in this specific thread.
> 
> Married women partying are put in the box of "massively unprofessional" and " Easy lay". That's society for you. It's nothing to do with TAM. The first step is: disregarding your own offspring. She's an easy mark for the wrong kinda guy.


How is she disregarding her own offspring? The child is in the father's care. When a man travels, the child is in the mother's care. How is that "disregarding your own offspring"?

You have little to no idea what went on when she went out to 'party'. Yet that does not stop you from calling her all kinds of names.


----------



## TRy

turnera said:


> As OP has repeatedly said, he has always trusted her until this.one.time. Which was blown way out of proportion by the men here and which dragged him all the way to the lawyer without getting ANY real conversation between OP and his wife.


 You posted in post #729 of this thread that the OP "had the problem with travel in the beginning, not her" and now you post "he has always trusted her until this.one.time". Make up you mind which is it, we drove him to it, or he had a problem with her travel from the beginning? 

Also, the fact that "he has always trusted her until this.one.time", shows that his issue with this trip are not because of his insecurities, but because of her actions concerning this specific trip. 

When you earlier asked me "Please find me the post where OP said she admitted that she planned for months to get drunk and party with other men. I must have missed it." I posted back "You did miss it, because the OP specifically stated that his wife "said she lied because she felt bad because she went there to party". As for her friends being other men, the OP stated that "She has no friends that are girls". Thus she "went their to party" with her friends which are all other men." Why is it OK with you even "this.one.time" for a married woman to secretly plan a non-required trip where "she went there to party" with her male friends, without her husband that would have liked to have gone with her, and then lie about it? Remmber, now that you have argued that "he has always trusted her until this.one.time", you cannot fall back on the he drove her to lie because of his trust issues false excuse.


----------



## tom67

synthetic said:


> I don't disagree, but it's proven science that a baby's immediate yearning is always for 'mother' not 'father'. That accounts for something.
> 
> Of course the absence of the father can hurt, but definitely not as much as the absence of the mother.
> 
> Anyway, turnera and a few others are defending the indefensible as someone said, and I hope Bubba is smart enough to realize that.
> 
> His wife is a sh1tty mother and even sh1ttier lover. There's no doubt about that in my mind.
> 
> The infidelity is coming (though I believe it already has)


I think your avatar is scaring away Bubba.
I'm kidding but then again.
Hope he comes back.


----------



## turnera

TRy said:


> You posted in post #729 of this thread that the OP "had the problem with travel in the beginning, not her" and now you post "he has always trusted her until this.one.time". Make up you mind which is it, we drove him to it, or he had a problem with her travel from the beginning?


IIRC, what he said was HE had a problem with traveling, that she only traveled 3-4 times a year and that was what they had agreed upon, that up to THIS trip he never suspected anything of her, and that he was just pissed because she was going on two trips this month, one of which she didn't have to go to, and that he was having to take care of the kids 50% of the time this month.


----------



## Tubbalard

If an internet forum about strangers lives causes you to get angry, you need to reevaluate your life's priorities. Woo-sah from the 
monitor and take a few chill pills. It amazes me how people get so emotionally wrapped up in the lives of people they dont know.


If he wants a divorce because of his wife's shady behavior, how is he not justified? One time is PLENTY enough. Vice Versa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chris H.

Hi, please keep this thread on track. Any responses not directed at the OP may be be deleted from here on out.


----------



## BradWesley

Bubba

I don't know if you're gone or just lurking. Just a few closing comments, for you to take under advisement.

Because of the issues you have admitted to, insecurity, jealousy, anxiety, all leading to the paranoia you are suffering from, you really need to seek help from a medical doctor (psychiatrist), who can dispense meds, in addition to helping to resolve your issues.

This paranoia is causing great stress in your marriage, and your not to blame. The problem is you're not thinking clearly.

A number of reactions by your wife have been ill advised. However, how would you feel, if she was constantly checking on you, constantly calling the front desk to see where you are, having you take pictures of luggage in your room. I ask you, are these the acts of a rational person?

At this point in time, you don't need the services of a lawyer. Call the doctor.

Whatever you and your wife decide to do, I wish you the best.


----------



## Row Jimmy

I'm with Elegirl and Turnera on this one. 

This thread is so loaded with bad advice, over-reaction, projection and sexist views on what a woman "should" be doing with her life. 

Bubba - You need to learn to deal with your anxiety in a healthier way. It is causing you to make bad judgements that are affecting your health and will crush your marriage. I suggest IC and perhaps meds to stabilize your emotions. 

You also need to have fun with your wife and be a man she wants to be around instead of acting like a distrustful policeman. 

Calm down and get some help.


----------



## Satya

I encourage we all sit on our hands until the OP returns. I think everyone has had his/her input by now.


----------



## TRy

The Cro-Magnon said:


> If a Man planned a secret drunken party holiday with a bunch of other women and lied to his wife about it, and then told her she was a psycho control freak for having a problem about it, jesus wept, imagine the outrage, and rightfully so, it would be despicable conduct.


 :iagree: Quoted for truth.


----------



## TRy

Row Jimmy said:


> You also need to have fun with your wife and be a man she wants to be around instead of acting like a distrustful policeman.


 The OP would have liked to have gone on this trip to have fun with her, but the OP's wife did not want him to go on this trip because she wanted to party and have fun with other men instead. Enforcing and verifying normal marital boundaries does not make you "a distrustful policeman" especially if you never had trust issues about any other prior trips; you cannot enforce and verify marital boundaries with your head in the sand. 

Facts:

* The OP first posted to this thread not because of trust issues, but because the OP's wife wants more children, and the OP told her that he did not want to have any more children with her until she stopped her travelling. This is a rational point of view.
* The OP never had trust issues about her travel until this last trip because of her secrecy in planning it, and the OP only checked to see if there was even a bar at the hotel, because of this. It turns out that his gut was right.
* The OP's wife secretly planned a non-required trip where she later admitted that "she went there to party" with her male friends, without her husband that would have liked to have gone with her, and then lied to him about about it. He had a right to be distrustful and to take issue with this.
* The OP only asked her to take a photo of her room to prove that she was there, because he had already caught her lying about this trip, and her GPS was turned off. Guess what, she did not take the picture when asked.

Bottom line: The OP is who she married, Mr. no fun and all. She either wants to be his wife or she does not. She does not get to use him a Beta male provider (he makes what she does), as she saves her fun secret party times for other men. If she does not want to be the OP's wife enough to stop acting single with other men, then she should stop asking him to have other children with her and divorce him. Just because he may have emotional issues does not give her the right to cake eat and disrespect normal marital boundaries. I say that he may have issues, because when my father was gas-lighting my mother as he cheated on her, she did start acting irrational and insecure until she proved that he was in fact cheating. It was amazing how she went from the crazy person that my father had pushed her into becoming, to the normal person that she was before, once the affair was confirmed and the gas-lighting was exposed to friends and family for what it was. I cannot say that I know that the OP's wife is having sex with other men on her trips, but because of this last trip, he is not crazy for being concerned.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

TRy said:


> :iagree: Quoted for truth.


LOL the sistahood complained about my non compliant noises and had my post thrown down the memory chute it seems. I am glad they are exposing themselves here like this, many male lurkers will read their writing and will see them for what they are.

If I stab someone, they will bleed. Cause and effect. Blaming the victim's bleeding for causing the stabbing is demented mental gymnastics.

Seems modern women in marriage want the right to also have drunken holiday parties with other men any time they like without informing their husbands.

Awesome, sounds like a great deal, me and all the other single men just CANNOT WAIT to hitch ourselves legally and emotionally to such women who cannot comprehend even distantly our own needs, and the premise of basic boundaries of behaviour in a marriage.

BTW, splitting the thread would be the decent thing to do admin, not deleting the legitimate opinions of people who actually think marriage should have at least SOME basic meaning and have some normal boundaries of acceptable behaviour. These highly established female members are exposing views which seem completely counter intuitive to the basic premise of marriage, perhaps they should explain precisely what obligations, if any, they feel modern women have to their husbands and families? It seems the marital contract is a limitation upon a female's freedom in their eyes, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You cannot be married and single at the same time.

Again, if he did this to her, and thus reduced her to a quivering nervous wreck, I would be the first person to call him out. But 'cause it is a woman.....

BTW, would ANY man marry a woman who stated openly, upon proprosal, that she agreed to marriage, but retained the right to travel and party without notice with other men, even internationally? Just LOL! Any man with functioning testicles would laugh and walk away!

I wonder, is this a pro marriage forum or not? The things OP's wife has done I could never conceive of doing to a woman, if my wife was hurt and a nervous wreck, I would be beside myself trying to console and reassure her, OP's wife just turned off the maps, turned off the phone, and kept on partying. And apparently that is OK. I find it uncomfortable even trying to IMAGINE flying out at short notice to some distant location to party with a bunch of other women, I'd feel sick just leaving my kids, let alone my wife.

They are the actions of someone who in their mind feels they are single. That's it in a nutshell.

We will be seeing OP in "coping with infidelity" soon enough assuming he is a real poster, and even then, our fine misandrist friends will be there in force to tell him he drove her to it.

What next? Bringing other men home to the marital bed, and the husband better not get upset because "it is only sex, it means nothing, I married YOU afterall didn't I?"

I can not imagine wanting my son to get married to any woman if the institution has been reduced to the level that OP is experiencing.


----------



## azteca1986

EleGirl said:


> This is the only thing that I see wrong at all in what she has done. And I think that Tunera is right about what's going on.


Well, both your views are at odds with the marriage counsellor they both told their sides of the story to:



Bubbagumps said:


> Long update pt2. We were at the marriage counselor and after about 1 hr, something happened.The consiler said to her " Stop saying BUT!" Then she said something that I did not expect.
> " you realize you started coming here for his irrational thoughts, correct?"
> "Do you realize that when irrational thoughts happen, they become reality?"
> 
> *"You built the powderkeg, filled it, put the fuse in it and lit it, flew out of town, and made irrational thoughts into rational thoughts. You caused this, no him, he does not need Psych evaluations, you hurt him on many levels. He is now injured. You own that." *
> 
> I was shocked. I disclosed everything to her too. When irrational and rational blur, that is when you do not know up from down. I was so relieved that I was not crazy, but was being made to belive I was.
> The wife left " humbled"


Your attempts to misrepresent the situation and blame-shift this back to OP is at odds with the evidence and the opinions of professionals.



> you really think that a mother must be available to her child 24/7? How can a woman work a job if she is available 24/7?
> 
> Is a man who travels for work a sh!t father? His is a sh!t father if he has a job and thus is not available 24/7?


How can I explain this? 

Here in the twenty-first century we have these things called mobile phones. They work by a kind of magic that allows two people to talk to each other, even if they are separated by large distances. You can even see each other.

Using two of these magical "devices" allow either parent, whichever one is travelling, to *be available* 24/7 for their child.

If however, one parent whilst travelling for work, manipulates the situation so their spouse can't travel with them, lies about their whereabouts behaves like a single person, turns off their GPS so they can't be 'tracked', causing their spouse's anxiety to spike when they are in sole charge of your offspring... you are indeed a sh!tty parent. Switch the genders and the answer is still the same.


> You have little to no idea what went on when she went out to 'party'.


Neither do you. Neither does anyone on here. Only the wife and whomever she was partying with know what happened. Which is something she has to own (see verdict of marriage counsellor).


----------



## azteca1986

Row Jimmy said:


> I'm with Elegirl and Turnera on this one.


For some reason I'm "with" the doctor, psychiatrist and marriage counsellor that his wife insisted he see after her return.

They appear to conclude that it's her shady behaviour before and during this non-essential work/partying escapade that is the cause of his anxiety.

If you want to throw your hat in with two women on the internet with a bizarre axe to grind, it's entirely up to you. Each to their own. 

I'm "with" the real-life professionals. And the OP, of course.


----------



## TRy

EleGirl said:


> This is the only thing that I see wrong at all in what she has done.


 In response to azteca1986 posting "Lied to me about her whereabouts = zero", you actually post that "This is the only thing that I see wrong at all in what she has done", as if it was only her lying that was wrong. Do you really believe that if the OP's wife had not lied about her whereabouts, that her secretly planned a non-required trip where she later admitted that "she went there to party" until 1:00 am with her non-coworker male friends, without her husband that would have liked to have gone with her, that she would have done nothing wrong? :scratchhead:



EleGirl said:


> You have little to no idea what went on when she went out to 'party'


 So since we or the husband cannot prove what she did while parting out of town with these other men, we must treat her party girl actions as if it is allowable under normal martial boundaries? Using this false logic, a wife dating other men while married is an allowable action, just as long as the husband has no idea what went on whiles the wife was out on these dates.

Sorry, but your anti-male bias is showing again.


----------



## ZOV

The Cro-Magnon said:


> If a Man planned a secret drunken party holiday with a bunch of other women and lied to his wife about it, and then told her she was a psycho control freak for having a problem about it, jesus wept, imagine the outrage, and rightfully so, it would be despicable conduct.


bubba, be honest. If you had done to your wife what she did to you (read quote above), would she have acted like it was no big deal?

If you are not willing to show any consequences when she breaks marital boundaries, then she will not take you seriously and you'll be just confirming to her that she can do anything and you will not leave her.


----------



## Chaparral

I hope this latest trip hasn't put bubba in the hospital or worse. Treating a spouse with a heart condition like this seems stupid or intentional. She doesn't sound stupid.

If my spouse had done this, I would have sent her pictures of new door locks, her stuff laying out in the blowing snow and told her to take all the time she wants partying with whoever she wants to party with. Just as soon as I found out she lied and what she was really doing. Then block her phone and let her wonder if everything was all right at home.

I'm still confused as to how gender has anything to do with this thread.


----------



## yeah_right

Gentlemen,

For the record, I am female. I do not agree with some of the ladies on here on this particular discussion, so please stop trying to make this a gender issue...or thinking there is some "sisterhood" conspiracy going on. I consider myself a feminist, and as far as TAM goes, to be held to the same standards of marital loyalty. From day one I have not liked the wife's behavior. My opinions would have been the same even if Bubba was a woman discussing her H's behavior on trips.

We all bring our baggage to this forum that shapes our ideas on these threads. Me? I'm in my third decade of marriage to the same man. For most of that time, we have been best friends and love each other. He did have an EA that nearly ended in divorce but we are in a good R and I love this man dearly. However, if today he did what OP's wife did, I would have filed divorce papers before he got home. Lying about trips, partying with OSF's and gaslighting? Nope. Sorry. That's a no-no in our marriage now. That's because of what I have been through. Not because I have a vagina.

Can we please stop turning this thread into a gender pi$$ing match? I see this so much on TAM and stop posting on threads that devolve this way. It's exhausting.


----------



## azteca1986

It's a shame you couldn't manage a gender-neutral opening to your post


----------



## tom67

Sigh...
Looks like Elvis has left the building.


----------



## Chaparral

tom67 said:


> Sigh...
> Looks like Elvis has left the building.


I'm concerned about his heart issues. I believe his wife has come home and it's all hit the fan.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> I'm concerned about his heart issues. I believe his wife has come home and it's all hit the fan.



I hope not.


----------

