# Spouse's female friend



## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi All. New to the forum, and looking for help. I will try to be brief and to the point. Married 17 years. Not only issue in marriage, but major one right now. Husband has hobby, and in that hobby he meet a woman (married) who has the same interest. They became friends, and I had no idea how much they spoke. Went on his email in March (totally innocent) to check his email settings because my email wasn't working. Surprised and shocked to see emails between the two of them, with sexual banter. I didn't think then, nor do I think now, that they were having an affair. Told H I didn't like it, and thought we dealt with it. Now, in Aug, I checked his email (I don't want to be this type of wife, but something must have triggered me to check. Not to say it was okay...). He had deleted every single contact between him and her! He said he deleted them because he knew I would check. I told him he wouldn't need to delete if they were appropriate.

Anyway...in January I finally meet her (due to my action, not my H. I think if they were friends, this should have happened a lot sooner). Felt more comfortable. Now I saw his emails, and know that he was getting her a item that she wanted that was related to their hobby (which I have zero interest in), and he was going to deliver it to her. He never told me a word about the whole thing, and deleted the emails. I have no problem with him having a friend, but don't like the "flirting" and "bantering" or the secretiveness. He also has had dinner with her alone after events related to the hobby, and I think this is a date. Where was the rest of the group? He says they both have to eat...no big deal.

So, this is a real issue now. I have read tons on the internet, and still don't know what to do. He has never had a female friend. He thinks I am controling, and he doesn't have to tell me his every move, I am not his mother. I think he should be an open book when it comes to her. Problem is, I can't change him. He refuses to "give her up" because he says we will be fighting about something different in a week. I can't live like this for another 40 years. I am sure it is worse in my head, but I see that as his fault for not sharing. I don't want to divorce over this. What can I do? I see it as 2 choices for me. Accept or divorce. Not sure what other advise I can get. I want honest opinions, but please don't slaughter me. I know that this type of relationship would be totally acceptable is some marriages, but I personally don't like it.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Does the OW have a husband or boyfriend?

If ahe does ending your husbands contact with her would be as easy as giving her SO copies of those emails.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Married people might come into contact with members of the opposite sex through some hobby or another, but it isn't appropriate for them to continue the 'relationship' outside of the shared hobby, by emailing one another, exchanging flirty banter of a sexual nature and going out to dinner with one another. Your H knows this because he felt guilty enough to delete this woman's emails to him...

IMO, your H's actions fit the criteria for an emotional affair, and all contact with this woman needs to stop immediately.

OP, you might consider asking a moderator to move this thread to the Infidelity thread, because it will receive more attention there from people who have been in the same position you are now in.


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Does the OW have a husband or boyfriend?
> 
> If ahe does ending your husbands contact with her would be as easy as giving her SO copies of those emails.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is married, and apparently her spouse doesn't care. He has meet my husband. Maybe he has female friends, and they are okay with opposite sex friends in the marriage. Her spouse has no interest in the hobby either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Married people might come into contact with members of the opposite sex through some hobby or another, but it isn't appropriate for them to continue the 'relationship' outside of the shared hobby, by emailing one another, exchanging flirty banter of a sexual nature and going out to dinner with one another. Your H knows this because he felt guilty enough to delete this woman's emails to him...
> 
> IMO, your H's actions fit the criteria for an emotional affair, and all contact with this woman needs to stop immediately.
> 
> OP, you might consider asking a moderator to move this thread to the Infidelity thread, because it will receive more attention there from people who have been in the same position you are now in.


Okay, I'll do that. I don't want to think it's infidelity... Ugh, I hate this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

twin said:


> She is married, and apparently her spouse doesn't care. He has meet my husband. Maybe he has female friends, and they are okay with opposite sex friends in the marriage. Her spouse has no interest in the hobby either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you believe her spouse doesn't care because yours told you he doesn't you've just fallen for another lie.

If her spouse dosn't care then him seeing a stack of printed emails with their EA on display won't matter.

I'm betting it will matter a great deal.

Get the evidence of their affair into her husbands hands and she'll dump your man faster than you could imagine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

twin said:


> Okay, I'll do that. I don't want to think it's infidelity... Ugh, I hate this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Twin, it isn't nice to have to think of it that way, but emotional infidelity is just as damaging to a marriage (sometimes more so) as physical infidelity.

The reason I first came to TAM was because I was rather uncomfortable with the fact that I'd have to give my SO an ultimatum regarding his contact with female friends. Deep down I knew that it was because he was a little clueless about relationships, rather than being a player, but I wasn't comfortable with things. The TAM crew put me right about the dangers of emotional affairs and, I'm glad to say, my SO saw the light, too!

I hope things come right for you, Twin, but your situation really does need tackling sooner rather than later.


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

tacoma said:


> If you believe her spouse doesn't care because yours told you he doesn't you've just fallen for another lie.
> 
> If her spouse dosn't care then being seeing a stack of printed emails with their EA on display won't matter.
> 
> ...


You're probably right, but now they are all deleted. I guess I wasn't smart about how I dealt with this, but came from left field. I haven't even seen most of the emails myself, but hated what I did see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> Twin, it isn't nice to have to think of it that way, but emotional infidelity is just as damaging to a marriage (sometimes more so) as physical infidelity.
> 
> The reason I first came to TAM was because I was rather uncomfortable with the fact that I'd have to give my SO an ultimatum regarding his contact with female friends. Deep down I knew that it was because he was a little clueless about relationships, rather than being a player, but I wasn't comfortable with things. The TAM crew put me right about the dangers of emotional affairs and, I'm glad to say, my SO saw the light, too!
> 
> I hope things come right for you, Twin, but your situation really does need tackling sooner rather than later.


How did you get SO to see the light? That is where I am stuck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

twin said:


> You're probably right, but now they are all deleted. I guess I wasn't smart about how I dealt with this, but came from left field. I haven't even seen most of the emails myself, but hated what I did see.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sure he's still actively chatting her up.
You might consider a keylogger to get any new messages between them.

It's my experience that convincing the OW's husband that his wife is fooling around is the best fastest way to end any affair.
Especially in your situation where the other betrayed spouse is a man
Men generally don't take this stuff for even a milisecond.
They will reel in a cheating wife in a heartbeat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

twin said:


> How did you get SO to see the light? That is where I am stuck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I told him that these are my boundaries in a relationship. If you can't respect them, we'll have to part company. 

I also showed him information on the subject of EAs, such as:- http://www.shirleyglass.com/

Fortunately, my SO was open to discussing things and was able to see for himself that carrying on emotional relationships (mainly flirty texting, emailing etc) with other women was a form of infidelity - emotional infidelity - and he stopped it altogether.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

twin said:


> You're probably right, but now they are all deleted. I guess I wasn't smart about how I dealt with this, but came from left field. I haven't even seen most of the emails myself, but hated what I did see.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


COMPLETELY deleted? As in even the trash was emptied?

Also, if there wasn't something inappropriate to be found, then there would be no reason to delete the messages.

My husband and I were both involved in a hobby, of sorts. In our case, it was gaming. Long story short, we both had emotional affairs (EAs) and ended them. My husband was more reluctant, I think, because he didn't see how he was headed down that path...I caught it in the very early stages. He tried giving me the BS of "I guess I can't have any friends"... and my response to that was "Yes you can. You absolutely can... just not THAT friend." It has been almost one year since that discussion. But the point is, he (and I as well) realized that our marriage is much more important that some friend, or even more important than a hobby. 

There are plenty of people in this hobby, I would guess, who he could be talking to. Your husband and this woman have already crossed one line that you know of, with their sexual banter/flirting. My personal opinion is that when that stuff starts, the friendship ends. I know all too well how easily it can cross over, and it's not worth it.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Seen the red flags you have to take it to the infidelity forum. 

Give no signs of your worry now to him, you will have to investigate and any talk about this will cause further hiding if there is really something going on.

Good luck, you may be in time to catch this.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

This has gone on for a long time now and already fits the definition of an emotional affair. Are you sure it hasn't gone physical?

Read Shirley Glass' 'Not Just Friends' and do the checklist there. Start doing some checking with a keylogger and/or VAR.

And yes, this is serious enough to talk about divorce. Emotional affairs break up marriages. Your H is spending his mental energy focused quite happily on another woman. He looks forward to all their communications, has her on his mind while you are the background noise. He hides it because deep down he knows that he is crossing lines. They go out on dates. Just because he calls her a friend doesn't change the fact that the anticipation and excitement and feelings that he has for her are what he would feel if he was dating.

Don't let this go on any longer. Don't be afraid of his reaction. You have a chance to recover your marriage, but not if this keeps going, in my opinion.

(And I agree that it would be good to ask to have your thread moved to the infidelity forum, as the other poster suggested.)


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> COMPLETELY deleted? As in even the trash was emptied?
> 
> Also, if there wasn't something inappropriate to be found, then there would be no reason to delete the messages.
> 
> ...


Yep, completely deleted! He gave the the exact same BS about him not being able to have a friend!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> This has gone on for a long time now and already fits the definition of an emotional affair. Are you sure it hasn't gone physical?
> 
> Read Shirley Glass' 'Not Just Friends' and do the checklist there. Start doing some checking with a keylogger and/or VAR.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I have read parts of that book, but didn't think this was an EA, but that was months ago. I might need to read it again, and in full. Thanks to COSMOS, I have asked to move to the infidelity forum. I really hate going through this...never thought that my husband would do this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

twin said:


> Thanks. I have read parts of that book, but didn't think this was an EA, but that was months ago. I might need to read it again, and in full. Thanks to COSMOS, I have asked to move to the infidelity forum. I really hate going through this...never thought that my husband would do this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I observed my husband's behavior when he became involved in a physical affair (and also his behavior when he became involved in an emotional affair and I can tell you that very few of us would ever believe our husbands are capable of the things they do. 

I was the most shocked person on earth when both of those events happened. I remember telling a friend when I got married many years ago that my husband would never cheat on me. 

I was wrong.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Read the book "Not Just Friends" ASAP. Do this today. Your marraige is in great danger. Based on what you have said, after you have read the book "Not Just Friends" you will know that it is defiantly an emotional affair (EA) and that you must take action to end it. You will know that not wanting to divorce over this is no longer an option since divorce is already on the table, you just do not know it. For starters tell your husband that you want full transparency into his actions with this other woman (OW). Tell him that if he has nothing to hide, he should be OK with this; he will not be OK with this since he has something to hide. Full transparency includes that he gives you full access without complaint to all email, text, phone information, etc., and that he does not delete anything. You must demand this full transparency and be willing to take action if he does not fully comply.

Your best chance of saving your marraige is to be willing to end it and mean it. You do not, and should not, have to live like this for the rest of your marraige and you should use that fact to motivate you to take action now. His understanding that you are willing to end the marraige is the only thing that will possibly get him to end his EA as he will not want to do it on his own. Be warned, there is also the very real possibility that it is now also a physical affair (PA). Also be warned that you cannot believe anything that he says going forward as he is cheating and cheaters lie.

As for the OW's spouse being OK about this, it is right out of the cheaters handbook to say this to you so that you question yourself and your judgement. Chances are that he does not know the full extent of the relationship. On the off chance that he does know and does not care, then their marraige was not in a good place and should not be the standard for you to follow. Again, I doubt that the OW's spouse knows the full extent of it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

twin said:


> Okay, I'll do that. I don't want to think it's infidelity... Ugh, I hate this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is an EA of some variety. Worse thing to do is ignore it. Basically if it makes you uncomfortable he needs to go NC with her whether one wants to kibitz if it is an EA or not. It is at least inappropriate if not entirely unfaithful.

Then again EAs are not typically overtly sexual like you describe. What you describe is more flirtatious and sound more like a sexual attraction than emotional. This is more akin to pushing boundaries and cheating type stuff. Playing just the tip. Kill this relationship ASAP.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> It is an EA of some variety. Worse thing to do is ignore it. Basically if it makes you uncomfortable he needs to go NC with her whether one wants to kibitz if it is an EA or not. It is at least inappropriate if not entirely unfaithful.
> 
> Then again EAs are not typically overtly sexual like you describe. What you describe is more flirtatious and sound more like a sexual attraction than emotional. This is more akin to pushing boundaries and cheating type stuff. Playing just the tip. * Kill this relationship ASAP*.


you need to kill this relationship because what you will soon find is that your husband will overtly show concern about this woman's needs --whatever they are -- and to your detriment. 

and as I noticed with my exH, without ever offering to do anything for his friend's wife, he would get anxious that something was expected of him. It gets really crazy.


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

It is already "real crazy". I think I was downplaying it in my post to be fair to my H. I appreciate everyone's response, but I wanted to hear I was crazy. I know everyone is right, I have to do something. I have told him before it's me or her...and he says he picks himself. Hahaha...only thing funny about this...I call it he Beverly hills 91020 response. (showing my age). Finding hard to go to work this morning with all this going on. Hope everyone else has a good day. Thanks again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

twin said:


> It is already "real crazy". I think I was downplaying it in my post to be fair to my H. I appreciate everyone's response, but I wanted to hear I was crazy. I know everyone is right, I have to do something. I have told him before it's me or her...and he says he picks himself. Hahaha...only thing funny about this...*I call it he Beverly hills 91020 response. (showing my age). * Finding hard to go to work this morning with all this going on. Hope everyone else has a good day. Thanks again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Kelly wouldn't choose between the two because she was a wimp. She wanted THEM to make the choice so she wouldn't have to... Well, they MADE her choose. That's why she chose herself.

Now, you can give him the ultimatum, once again. This time, when he says "I pick myself", you say "well, if that's how you feel, start looking for a new place to live. I refuse to have to COMPETE with another woman"


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

twin said:


> It is already "real crazy". I think I was downplaying it in my post to be fair to my H. I appreciate everyone's response, but I wanted to hear I was crazy. I know everyone is right, I have to do something. I have told him before it's me or her...and he says he picks himself. Hahaha...only thing funny about this...I call it he Beverly hills 91020 response. (showing my age). Finding hard to go to work this morning with all this going on. Hope everyone else has a good day. Thanks again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only response to such selfish claptrap can be that he's left you no alternative but to make some choices of your own. They are between a life of distrust, insecurity and humiliation or _yourself_. I hope you pick yourself, Twin.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Install a keylogger on that computer, hardware or software.

They may have moved it underground, if they are smart, with new email addresses etc. If not, then he has probably changed his email pw or moved to a different venue such as texting apps, burner phones etc.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Tell him that you choose yourself and mean it. This is serious for your marriage.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Twin:
I come from the school of thought where you just tell him that you want this “friendship” to end, period … and if he says no, then you just tell him that he is risking the marriage because you refuse to live with this situation. If others haven’t said this, I will: You have to be willing to give up your marriage in order to save it. I do believe that he is looking to have "sexual relations" with his new friend and that it is only a matter of time before it happens, if it hasn’t happened already. The time has come to be assertive. You should gather evidence like everyone says, but you don’t need evidence to tell him to cut it out because you’re uncomfortable with this situation. Remember, a marriage is between two people, not three.

MM


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## Tryingtobreath (Jan 2, 2013)

Twin: 

Your husband is no doubt in an EA. That isn't debatable at this point. 

EA will lead to a PA (most cases) which will lead to the destruction of your marriage.

You are getting GREAT advice here. 

My advice: talk with your husband. Explain your fears about his relations with OW. If he decides to quit her, that's when you begin your stealth monitoring... to see if he really is axing her from his life and yours. 

Do NOT take his actions with this other women light. Had I known about the start of my exwifes 2 year EA I would've nipped that sucker in the bud asap. You cannot sit idle on this. Trust what other people are telling you on here, as we've all been thru this.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

twin said:


> I have told him before it's me or her...and he says he picks himself.


 The next time that he tells you that, tell him that that is the wrong answer because it puts the other woman (OW) on par in his life with you his wife. Tell him that in your wedding vows he swore to put you before all other and that does not mean on par with others, thus he is breaking his vows and disrespecting you and your marraige. BTW cheaters by definition are selfish cake eaters, and there is no more selfish caking eating response to your question than he picks himself. 

Talk is cheap. Reasoning and appealing to a cheaters sense of fair play does not work. As long as a cheater feels that they can get away with it, they will try to have both. The question is what are you going to do about it?


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## slainte (Feb 9, 2013)

twin said:


> It is already "real crazy". I think I was downplaying it in my post to be fair to my H. I appreciate everyone's response, but I wanted to hear I was crazy. I know everyone is right, I have to do something.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Twin, 
I also came to this site hoping I would be told I was crazy. No one said that. The more posts that I read, the more I believe that I am in trouble. The characteristics of the cheater mentioned on TAM describe my H to a tee. His phone is locked up like Fort Knox, texts are deleted and he lies about talking to her. He makes me seem crazy for any questions that I ask. Three to four months ago his phone went to silent and he started dressing up for work every day.
I have had a VAR in the house on his days off. No evidence yet. I did order a smaller one for his vehicle. Should be here this week. I want/need proof.
It is very hard to act like nothing is wrong. I can barely look him in the eye. At the very least, I know he lies. Being intimate is difficult but if I'm not somewhat receptive, that would scream something is up. I know the OW and she has been divorced for quite some time, with many men in and out of her life. What if they have moved to a PA?! It makes me physically ill sometimes. 
So, while I don't have any advice, I can say I know how you feel. I cannot believe I am here. It consumes so much of my thought process. 
Hang in there! I plan on getting to the other side of this thing and I know you will too. We deserve better.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

You made the comment that you think it might be worse in your head than it really is. I think a lot of people here will tell you it is usually worse than what is in your head. I don't know if that is true BUT the relationship he has is at the very least inappropriate and at the worst a physical affair. 

For me the sexual banter and the secrecy is the big red flag. The only reason for the sexual banter is to explore the boundaries of the relationship with the end result being a physical affair unless one or the other puts a stop to it. It is foreplay and seduction. I will guarantee that the thought of having sex with her has crossed his mind many times and he has let his boundaries down with her. She has likely also envisioned herself having sex with your husband and the thought certainly didn't make her see the light and stop the inappropriate relationship. 

The shared hobby is the bonding, the sexual banter is exploring boundaries and foreplay ... it is only a matter of time unless someone stops it.

For what it's worth, I have had friend relationships with females during my marriage. Fortunately I've had the presence of mind to stop them when they started becoming inappropriate. Some of them never got to that point and I'm still friends ... some of them did and they are no longer friends. In my view, the relationship your husband has with his friend has long past 'starting' to become inappropriate.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

There are programs to recover deleted emails, that might be the quickest way to get the goods. You should not feel guilty about looking at his email. There is a profound difference between privacy and secrecy. Privacy means you close the door when you use the toilet, secrecy means you hide things from your spouse. Privacy has its place, and is useful for preserving attraction for one another. Secrecy has no place in a marriage, and is a breeding ground for betrayal.

Ironically though, because he has been so secretive, it behooves you to investigate surreptitiously what it is he has been hiding. If and when you do find evidence of wrong doing, do not tell him how you know what you know. Never blow your sources of information.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I think back to my closest encounter with a female friend. I was young and engaged and a new girl joined my team at work. She was very beautiful and I was immediately attracted to her but that was the extent of it. She started dating one of the guys on the team and if I'm honest with myself I would say I was a little jealous. I DIDN'T have any illusion that I was going to drop my soon to be wife and start having a relationship with her. She was just someone I was attracted to and I never entertained the thought of it being more than that. She and her boyfriend attended my wedding and I didn't give her a thought. Of course, she worked on my team so I got to know her and we were friendly. She eventually broke up with her boyfriend and not long after she invited me to lunch. Ok, a little weird but I went and we talked about the same kind of things everybody else talks about ... except that the conversation towards the end turned to her breakup. I made the mistake of consoling her, telling her I thought he was making a mistake. Suddenly she wanted to talk to me more than usual. Again, nothing out of the ordinary was talked about except what was going on with her ex. She discovered that I had a paint ball excursion with a group of friends and she invited herself along. I told my wife I was taking her and she didn't protest ... I said, "she's just a friend" and I was convinced it was true. It was no big deal. Nothing was going to happen. It was a long drive and so we spent a lot of time talking. At no time prior to or during this trip has there been any sexual banter. When we got back, I dropped her off at her car and it was probably then that should have been my big wake up that boundaries were getting crossed. She was very slow to leave and talked about some things that I can't remember specifically but I remember thinking ... this is awkward. At that point in my life, I wasn't exactly sure what boundaries should be set with female friends. I always had female friends, many platonic ... but that was before marriage. Then came the big moment. 

I didn't realize until a certain point just how much I enjoyed talking with her. I heard some interesting news about her ex that I used as an excuse to talk with her (would I have called it an excuse then? No, but that is what it was.) This was at the office and we went outside to talk. I don't even remember the conversation. I just remember her standing in front of me very close. Too close. Suddenly my mouth went dry, my ears buzzed and I started feeling dizzy ... I couldn't focus and I couldn't make out what she was saying ... I just wanted her ... I WANTED her right then and there. I don't think at any point before or since have I been that attracted to a person, including my wife. To this day the suddenness and intensity of that feeling surprises me. The good news - I realized at that point exactly what was going on and instead of giving in to it, I backed away and made an excuse to get back to work. I actually went straight to the men's room, splashed water on my face and stared at myself in the mirror for a long time trying to make sense of it. A few days later she sent me an email inviting me to tag along on a bike ride with her cycling group. A trip that was going to take the whole day. I was an avid cyclist but I made an excuse not to go. She invited me to a few things after that and I kept declining. She had transferred to different team on the other side of the building and I stopped going over there to talk. Eventually, we stopped talking altogether. 

I now know that was an inappropriate relationship and it was inappropriate before my big awakening moment. The point of telling you this is that he has enough awareness to know you wouldn't like it (deleted emails) but he may think he can handle it. He may not even recognize it for what it is. I often wonder if me and my "friend" were in a different place ... say standing together talking after a dinner alone ... would my story have ended differently? I have been married for over 20 years and my wife has given me two beautiful daughters who mean more to me than anything. I don't want to think about the answer.


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

Thanks for all the wonderful help, I am so glad I posted.
So...this is what I have concluded:
1. I haven't been smart, and emotion has always lead my actions. Wish I laid low when I first found the emails. 
2. So many of your post are ringing alarm bells. JUSTSOMEGUYWHO, my husband has driven with this OW to hobby events ALONE that are often hours away. I have complained about this too. 
3. This is an EA!!
4. My H has had every excuse you have said you have heard/said. I tell them they are excuses, and not reasons.
5. I might try to get deleted emails (for I know EVERYTHING), but I don't know if I see the sense now. He is WRONG, and I don't need proof that he is not treating me with respect.

So, took our teenagers to an activity they go to on Mondays nights, and came back home to speak with H (after he surprisingly texted me saying he needed to talk to me). We have been fighting since Thursday because of him not being honest about talking/delivery item to OW. Told him he had to make a decision. (and meant it...I don't want to be divorced, but I know I would be okay.) He was saying he was going to move out, but now says he will have NC (which I don't entirely believe), but still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Does it matter if he sees it is wrong? Or is it good enough he is willing to have NC with OW? I wish he can see the difference between privacy and secrecy. I would never treat him like this, or tell him he couldn't see my email/text. Oh, and this "hobby" with the other women was kind of a extension of his original hobby. So, he can do his original hobby without seeing her, but the extended hobby was more "her thing". That extended hobby has to stop. Moving forward, I am going to be a lot smarter, and firmer. And I am looking into a VAR or keylogger.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Put a monitoring device on the computer so you can see what he is deleting. If he had nothing to hide he wouldn't be deleting. Then I would suggest going to marriage counseling and voicing your concerns with the counselor and getting him/her to back you up as you set some boundaries with your husband.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

I think he needs to see what he did was wrong. Having NC is not enough. Get some marriage counseling.


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## twin (Feb 24, 2013)

Agreed. Suggested MC, and he said the therapist would probably be a women and side with me. I still will push the issue, this whole week has been exhausting. Seems like a glimmer of hope when he said he will have NC, but I don't believe anything after one conversation. Actions speak louder than words.. I would really like to see the deleted items.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

twin said:


> Agreed. Suggested MC, and he said the therapist would probably be a women and side with me. I still will push the issue, this whole week has been exhausting. Seems like a glimmer of hope when he said he will have NC, but I don't believe anything after one conversation. Actions speak louder than words.. I would really like to see the deleted items.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to keep on this. The opposite sex friend (OSF) thing is a hot button for me. My W had a platonic OSF for 20 years, and when things got to a bad point in our marriage, guess who she turned to. That platonic thing turned into "i love you" and "I wish we could be together". It's good you are taking a stand. Do not waver or this will snowball.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

twin said:


> Agreed. Suggested MC, and he said the therapist would probably be a women and side with me. I still will push the issue, this whole week has been exhausting. Seems like a glimmer of hope when he said he will have NC, but I don't believe anything after one conversation. Actions speak louder than words.. I would really like to see the deleted items.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As I said in my earlier post ... in situations like this one ... you need to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it. What we mean by that is that your husband has to truly believe that you will walk away from him and the marriage (and take him to the cleaners) if he doesn't change his behavior. You have to mean it and he has to believe it.

Also, if he doesn't see that what he did was wrong, he will just take this relationship underground ... which means you are going to have to be Sherlock Holmes in your marriage for the foreseeable future ... certainly not a good way to live.

One thing I suggest is that if you find anything that is "incriminating" between your H and the OW, share it with the OW's husband immediately. That will surely put an end to things. You might even want to let the OW's husband know you have insisted on NC and he can be another set of eyes and ears for you.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

twin said:


> Thanks for all the wonderful help, I am so glad I posted.
> So...this is what I have concluded:
> 1. I haven't been smart, and emotion has always lead my actions. Wish I laid low when I first found the emails.
> 2. So many of your post are ringing alarm bells. JUSTSOMEGUYWHO, my husband has driven with this OW to hobby events ALONE that are often hours away. I have complained about this too.
> ...


 You are correct, you don't need proof, the disrespect alone is enough to act on. However recovering the emails would serve 2 purposes. 1 you get to see just exactly what it is you have to deal with. 2 you get hard evidence, that can be used to shut his denials and gaslighting attempts cold, and you can share it with the OWH, and make it very costly for them to continue their relationship.

NC is a good start. He won't see he is wrong until he gets out of the fog he has been in. He has constructed rationalizations that perfectly justify everything to him. In his mind's eye, he hasn't done anything wrong. If they maintain NC, and he gets through the withdrawal (make no mistake, he is addicted to the chemicals in his brain, he is an addict) he may begin to see the truth.

Do not trust his words, you have to judge by his actions. Extend some trust, but verify independently (keylogger on the computer, spyware on the phone). He should be willing to make himself at least superficially transparent, sharing passwords to all accounts, not deleting any communications without your consent, accounting for his where abouts, etc.

His change of heart seems suspicious, as it came before you really issued an ultimatum. I suspect he will try to pull the wool over your eyes. VAR in the car for sure. It sucks, but you'll need to police him for a few months. Good luck.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Originally Posted by twin
> Agreed. Suggested MC, and he said the therapist would probably be a women and side with me. I still will push the issue, this whole week has been exhausting.


And if it's a male therapist, he would probably side with him? I very much doubt that he would! Besides, a good therapist does not take sides. They are trained to remain impartial and help people to find logical solutions to their problems, not exacerbate them with their own personal views.

Your H's attitude is all wrong here, Twin, because he doesn't appear to sound at all remorseful that he's hurt you, nor does he sound as though he thinks he's done anything wrong. That HAS to change or there's really no way forward with this...


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

TWIN: STEEL YOURSELF!!! That post #37 is a massive red flag.

This one has a fair chance of following "The script" Something I have seen 20 times. Others here a hundred times.

Boardies. Whose threads should she look at? Thorburns? Gutpunch? Both are kinda long. Maybe several other threads that started "Its just and EA"?

Def follow up on your info discovery and remember NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES!!!!!!!

I have ~5 female friends at work and even when some say "Your wife is very mean to you" I NEVER go down that path! Its called boundaries. Your husband has crossed multiple boundaries and possibly more than you know.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> As I said in my earlier post ... in situations like this one ... you need to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it. What we mean by that is that your husband has to truly believe that you will walk away from him and the marriage (and take him to the cleaners) if he doesn't change his behavior. You have to mean it and he has to believe it.


I'm afraid I have to agree with the above. In order to save your marriage you have have to be prepared to erect healthy boundaries and insist that they are adhered to.

I mentioned earlier about my SO having opposite sex friends in the early stages of our relationship, and him eventually seeing the light. However, this didn't actually happen until I gave him an ultimatum. There was one friendship in particular that he wasn't prepared to lose (a full on EA if ever there was one!), so I dumped him. When we got back together, he'd changed his views considerably - particularly about what constitutes an EA.


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