# You're a BS, you're divorcing...do you want to know everything?



## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

My WW admitted to one EA/PA. Swore up and down that was it..."why would I lie now? What do I have to gain?. Of course I discover another EA (during our attempted but failed R). Facebook convos - utterly disgusting.

I am divorcing her and will never, ever attempt another R at any point - we are through. I can see if you are in R you would want to, HAVE to know everything - all of the A's, whether PA's or EA's. But I know there is more - I know she TT'd me - and there's WAY more to the story. Is it best to just not think about it and never find out the whole truth? Do you need the whole truth to know what your life REALLY was? For closure? For the sake of truth? To know that it really ALL was a lie? Is part of detaching and moving on accepting there was more but never finding out?

I reread some Facebook convos and emails between her PA AP and EA AP this morning. Not sure why - maybe to solidify my decision to divorce. It was utterly wrenching. But it did what it was intended to do.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I am of the camp that I would want to know everything. Depending o the state it can mean quite a bit difference in the D and custody hearings as well. I am a detailed oriented person and want to be able to put things into perspective to be able to finally put closure to the issues. I would try to just move on, but at the same time, if I had kids involved and found that she was re-writing the history of the M the entire time for herself and everyone around, I would want to know to be able to set the record straight and clear my name.

Everyone is different, but this is the way I operate and would need to know to have full closure and move on, especially if their were kids involved and I had to share parenting responsibilities for the future.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Ya, I think it's normal to WANT to know everything. I felt like I was obsessing about it for a while. Even the act of going into "PI mode" can get addictive...it's self-fueling, since every time you find out something new, it drives you to think "there must be more I don't know...".

You'll never know everything. Accept that and move on. Anything she tells you can be taken with a grain of salt...she cannot be trusted. Don't waste your time trying to get all the truth...even if you heard the whole truth, you would never know that it was the whole truth because you would always question if there was something else she wasn't telling you.

Best thing I did was focus on my health and exercise routine, spending time with my kids, dating, going out with friends, going to hot yoga (lots of beautiful women there!), take a chef's class (lots of beautiful women there!), going dancing (lots of beautiful women there!), going on vacation (lots of beautiful women there!), etc.

The false R is over...it's go time! 

As a good friend once told me, "Grab life by the waste(or waist  ) and fawk it"


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I am of the camp that I would want to know everything. Depending o the state it can mean quite a bit difference in the D and custody hearings as well. I am a detailed oriented person and want to be able to put things into perspective to be able to finally put closure to the issues. I would try to just move on, but at the same time, if I had kids involved and found that she was re-writing the history of the M the entire time for herself and everyone around, I would want to know to be able to set the record straight and clear my name.
> 
> Everyone is different, but this is the way I operate and would need to know to have full closure and move on, especially if their were kids involved and I had to share parenting responsibilities for the future.


I hear that. Yes, we have kids. She such a bald faced liar though, that even with the evidence of her EA right there ("I love you so much baby, you're everything, the most important thing to me"...over and over for months on end) she still says "just friends". I said in a text the other day "I know there's more than what you've admitted" she didn't deny it this time around. Just didn't say anything. It's horrible - HORRIBLE to think of all the other **** that went on that I don't know about, for God knows how many years. Makes you question reality.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I stupidly _thought_ that I knew everything while we were in our first false R following discovery of his LT EA with one of my friends. Then, after he admitted to a one night stand with another OW and sexting with yet another OW, I foolishly _hoped_ I knew everything. Later, he eventually trickle truthed about two additional ONS's and a couple other women he was "talking to" and I began to realize that I would probably never know everything. 

Since I filed for divorce, he's repeatedly asked if I was sure about it, wanted to talk about possibly getting back together, etc. So, I began monitoring his phone again briefly. That recently resulted in an interesting experience. One night he was crying and begging me for another chance, and the next morning he was texting yet another OW I hadn't known about previously regarding the certain delights of their earlier encounters and anticipating their next meeting. I've also learned that at least one of his ONS's was, in fact, a months-long affair, complete with joint mini-vacations and introductions to a number of our supposed friends. 

I am now fully confident that I will never ever know everything. At one point, I thought I needed to know it all. Now, however, I realize that what I do know is enough for me to call it quits with this man - 10 times over. And my entire adult life has been entirely a figment of my imagination. None of what I "knew", believed, counted on, trusted, had faith in or loved ever exited. At all. Once I really realized that and absorbed the truth of it, I no longer feel a burning need to know. Would it be helpful? Yes. I hate unanswered questions. But would it make a difference in my life going forward? Would it change anything? Is it worth the extra humiliation to me? No.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I stupidly _thought_ that I knew everything while we were in our first false R following discovery of his LT EA with one of my friends. Then, after he admitted to a one night stand with another OW and sexting with yet another OW, I foolishly _hoped_ I knew everything. Later, he eventually trickle truthed about two additional ONS's and a couple other women he was "talking to" and I began to realize that I would probably never know everything.
> 
> Since I filed for divorce, he's repeatedly asked if I was sure about it, wanted to talk about possibly getting back together, etc. So, I began monitoring his phone again briefly. That recently resulted in an interesting experience. One night he was crying and begging me for another chance, and the next morning he was texting yet another OW I hadn't known about previously regarding the certain delights of their earlier encounters and anticipating their next meeting. I've also learned that at least one of his ONS's was, in fact, a months-long affair, complete with joint mini-vacations and introductions to a number of our supposed friends.
> 
> I am now fully confident that I will never ever know everything. At one point, I thought I needed to know it all. Now, however, I realize that what I do know is enough for me to call it quits with this man - 10 times over. And my entire adult life has been entirely a figment of my imagination. None of what I "knew", believed, counted on, trusted, had faith in or loved ever exited. At all. Once I really realized that and absorbed the truth of it, I no longer feel a burning need to know. Would it be helpful? Yes. I hate unanswered questions. But would it make a difference in my life going forward? Would it change anything? Is it worth the extra humiliation to me? No.


I'm so sorry for your pain. Astonishing how cruel the one that you married can be, isn't it? I mean just utterly astounding.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

In my opinion,(and opinions are the middle ground between knowledge and ignorance) its a mistake to want to know the "truth". The more they tell you the "truth" the more disappointment will have and the more you will be nagged by suspicion you still don't have it all.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

I think the more you know, the more knowledge you have, thus leading to clarity (and pain/sadness).


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## Silvr Surfer (Sep 25, 2013)

Curious if any WS have shared everything and as a result their BS shut down an attempted R. You read differing advice to both parties on this one.

I honestly don't know if I'd be able to resist knowing...but I'm pretty sure it isn't always healthy. Hope I never have to find out.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I realized I'd never know everything. This woman had manipulated, lied and disrepected me for so long, there would be NO WAY, I'd learn everything. So I ignored the white rabbit.

The moment I "let it go" was the moment my pain, anger and embarrassment took a drastic reduction.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

As part of R I would want to know everything. Someone said on the forum that you can't forgive if you don't know what you're forgiving, and I subscribe to this. I also consider it a form of disrespect to be kept in the dark/deceived, either through outright lie or lie of omission.

If R has failed, however, then I would just move on--what would be the point?

Finally, wrt to Dad&Hubby:

_I realized I'd never know everything. This woman had manipulated, lied and disrepected me for so long, there would be NO WAY, I'd learn everything. So I ignored the white rabbit.

The moment I "let it go" was the moment my pain, anger and embarrassment took a drastic reduction._

I agree here too. In my case (a successful R) I know I still don't know everything, and for years it ate at me. Then I realized that whatever she might say I wouldn't believe anyway, so I let it go.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I am now fully confident that I will never ever know everything. At one point, I thought I needed to know it all. Now, however, *I realize that what I do know is enough for me to call it quits *with this man - 10 times over.


:iagree: 

What I've bolded is basically 'it', in a nutshell. Hours after my ex told me he had been having an EA, he said, "There's a lot about me you don't know." At first, I wondered about it. Did he have PA' in addition to the EA? Was he engaging in cybersex, sexting, etc? Was he doing this with other women BEFORE he had this EA? 

After a while, the answers to those questions didn't really matter. I realized that I knew "enough" not to want to be with him. Period.

Vega


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## angrybuttrying (Jun 17, 2013)

My situation is that I do not know everything, nor do I care to. I simply know enough to recognize the EA for what it was. My question to myself is "why do I need to know every word that was said?" What I read in a few short emails was enough, and subsequent conversations have confirmed to me that it wasn't more than what I read in the emails. How do I know this for sure?

Guess I don't, other than to trust her and her reactions to the questions I asked. 

For me, I'm trying to R and move on, having some success thus far, and while I do indeed want to meet this a--hole one day (unlikely since he's overseas), knowing more than I know now is just not important to me.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

angrybuttrying said:


> My situation is that I do not know everything, nor do I care to. I simply know enough to recognize the EA for what it was. My question to myself is "why do I need to know every word that was said?" What I read in a few short emails was enough, and subsequent conversations have confirmed to me that it wasn't more than what I read in the emails. How do I know this for sure?
> 
> Guess I don't, other than to trust her and her reactions to the questions I asked.
> 
> For me, I'm trying to R and move on, having some success thus far, and while I do indeed want to meet this a--hole one day (unlikely since he's overseas), knowing more than I know now is just not important to me.


I can understand and respect this stance, but don't you want to know that it was not more than an EA, or that this wasn't the only one? What would you do if you found out that you were trying to R and then found out after months that the lying had continued and it was actually more a's than you thought and more people than you thought? Months of wasted R for what? How can one build a foundation for R not knowing everything (as it is just rugsweeping and setting up for failure if the future in my mind).


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Healer, based on what you've already told us about your WW, along with the fact that you're divorcing, I can virtually guarantee you that you will NEVER get the whole truth from her, anyway. I just don't see it happening. Your wife's lies and deceptions go far beyond the span of almost any WS that I've read about or am familiar with. And, even with the two of you being separated and headed for divorce she still doesn't seem to comprehend that SHE is NOT the victim. She continues to manipulate you and your children whenever it suits her own needs and desires. 

Having been the WS in my own, now 29 year, marriage, I likely know all of the reasons that WS's trickle truth, both, those that we know are 100% purely for selfish reasons (self-preservation) and those that we convince ourselves are to protect our spouses, children or other loved ones. My husband and I have been working on reconciliation for the last 16 months. I deeply regret betraying my husband and my children (and, myself,) but I know that had we not chose to reconcile there is no way that I would have put my husband, or myself, through the gut wrenching task of reliving every sordid detail of my betrayal. After D-Day, had we chosen to divorce, I would not have continued deceiving him, but I would have told him that "the details" were not going to serve any purpose other than causing him more pain. For me, the details that I withheld the longest were the ones about having met the xOM's parents and children, as well as his closest friends, and even his neighbors. To me, I felt that the physical aspects of the "A" were self-explanatory (I have since learned that most men, my husband included, do not view it that way..... they want detailed explanations.) 

My greatest fear, in reconciling, was in having my husband realize the depth of the emotional connection I shared, at that point, with the xOM, because I knew that that was going to be the biggest obstacle for me to overcome. It was only after, months and months, of hours long, face-to-face conversations, emails, texts, and numerous phone calls, scattered throughout the day, while my husband was working, that the switch flipped for him and he finally realized that while he was trying to "overcome" the hurt, the fears and the anxiety associated with the sexual aspects of my affair, that I was struggling more with the emotional loss I was feeling as a result. I was being honest about it, but I tried to follow his lead as far as what information I shared with the greatest detail. This was a daily process for nearly a year. It isn't as intense, now, as it was even a few months ago, but it is always with us. It is just too painful, too draining and takes too great of a physical and emotional toll on both parties to go through this unless reconciliation is the goal. And, if it is, I believe that the WS must be willing to do whatever is necessary to help their BS heal. With that having been said, I would not have chosen to attempt reconciliation had my husband's intentions been only punitive, in nature, rather than healing. Our pre-A marriage had been punishing enough for both of us for several years. We were going to need to do the hard work of healing ourselves and our marriage or go our separate ways. We chose to reconcile.

It's a very challenging and difficult journey. This is why I cannot comprehend anyone going through this that was not attempting to reconcile. I don't think your wife appears to be reconciliation material. I can not imagine her giving you what you would need to even try to heal at this point. I've told you before, it's my firm belief that you must find a way to detach. But, I wouldn't expect any "help" from your WS.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Man oh man. Went through over a year of false R. My wife had sex with the XOM several times in 2011. I knew of 6 times for sure, had proof, and suspected 8. I did not have proof of the other two and let it go. She admitted to 4. I kept asking her about the other two. She kept denying. I showed her the proof over and over again. She denied it.

When she came clean in May and repented, she admitted not just to those two dates but to the other two dates that I suspected but had no proof.

If I had pursued D I would have wanted to know everything but I would have never gotten it if she had kept up her fog headed mindset. 

I had a recording of my wife having sex. I went back several times and listened to it. When i was pursuing D I would have doubts and that recording would bring me back to reality.

By you rereading those emails, it brings you right back to why you are following through with D. It makes the unbelievable believeable.

I look at this way. On 911 there were folks that were vaporized. There is no evidence that they died. No body. The folks who lost loved ones have nothing to bury. Yet their loved one is gone. It is difficult to have closure.

Or it is like where is the missing sock?

Some folks will never get the answers they want.

Move on and let this crap go.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I realized I'd never know everything. This woman had manipulated, lied and disrepected me for so long, there would be NO WAY, I'd learn everything. So I ignored the white rabbit.
> 
> The moment I "let it go" was the moment my pain, anger and embarrassment took a drastic reduction.


Working on this....


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Philat said:


> As part of R I would want to know everything. Someone said on the forum that you can't forgive if you don't know what you're forgiving, and I subscribe to this. I also consider it a form of disrespect to be kept in the dark/deceived, either through outright lie or lie of omission.
> 
> If R has failed, however, then I would just move on--what would be the point?
> 
> ...


You are in a "successful" R but don't know everything and have no trust for your WW's word?

Sounds like "successful" should be removed from R. My opinion only of course.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

michzz said:


> i still want to know all if it. and not just for risk of STDs.
> 
> It's a kind of morbid curiosity, like slowing down to look at a car wreck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Only it's YOUR mangled body strewn across the freeway.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

EI said:


> Healer, based on what you've already told us about your WW, along with the fact that you're divorcing, I can virtually guarantee you that you will NEVER get the whole truth from her, anyway. I just don't see it happening. Your wife's lies and deceptions go far beyond the span of almost any WS that I've read about or am familiar with. And, even with the two of you being separated and headed for divorce she still doesn't seem to comprehend that SHE is NOT the victim. She continues to manipulate you and your children whenever it suits her own needs and desires.
> 
> Having been the WS in my own, now 29 year, marriage, I likely know all of the reasons that WS's trickle truth, both, those that we know are 100% purely for selfish reasons (self-preservation) and those that we convince ourselves are to protect our spouses, children or other loved ones. My husband and I have been working on reconciliation for the last 16 months. I deeply regret betraying my husband and my children (and, myself,) but I know that had we not chose to reconcile there is no way that I would have put my husband, or myself, through the gut wrenching task of reliving every sordid detail of my betrayal. After D-Day, had we chosen to divorce, I would not have continued deceiving him, but I would have told him that "the details" were not going to serve any purpose other than causing him more pain. For me, the details that I withheld the longest were the ones about having met the xOM's parents and children, as well as his closest friends, and even his neighbors. To me, I felt that the physical aspects of the "A" were self-explanatory (I have since learned that most men, my husband included, do not view it that way..... they want detailed explanations.)
> 
> ...


Difficult for me to read, but as usual, very insightful and more than likely on the money. Deep sigh.

After a flurry of her manipulative texts yesterday gave me a full day anxiety attack, I made a conscious decision to really work on detachment. I answered no texts and did not enter her house when I went to get my kids (she always wants me to come in for a beer and chat). I was polite and left immediately. This is my only course of action now. I must let go of the hate, and at the same time, detach and not worry about her feelings or let myself fall prey to her manipulation. Man it's hard.

I'm so utterly bewildered, confused and baffled by the fact that our entire life was a lie - all the while me being blamed for committing the acts SHE was herself guilty of...I'm a smart guy, but I cannot wrap my head around this. 

I know I am so much healthier and happier without her - but realizing your truth was in fact all an illusion is one motherf*cker of a pill to swallow.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

You can answer all of your own questions on what she did with how many people and what she said to them and what she did sexually with them, and that will be the truth.

In the end, you will understand that she is the screwed up one and not you. Start your new life and enjoy the good person that you are and stop worrying about rotten person she is, that is her cross to bear, that is her history, not yours.

Just my 2 cents David


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

I did not need to know more. And if you are leaving anyway, neither do you. Why feed the triggers. And congrats on having the strength and clarity to leave. It's possibly the hardest thing you'll ever do. Happy healing.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

illwill said:


> I did not need to know more. And if you are leaving anyway, neither do you. Why feed the triggers. And congrats on having the strength and clarity to leave. It's possibly the hardest thing you'll ever do. Happy healing.


Thanks illwill, right back at ya.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Healer said:


> My WW admitted to one EA/PA. Swore up and down that was it..."why would I lie now? What do I have to gain?. Of course I discover another EA (during our attempted but failed R). Facebook convos - utterly disgusting.
> 
> I am divorcing her and will never, ever attempt another R at any point - we are through. I can see if you are in R you would want to, HAVE to know everything - all of the A's, whether PA's or EA's. But I know there is more - I know she TT'd me - and there's WAY more to the story. Is it best to just not think about it and never find out the whole truth? Do you need the whole truth to know what your life REALLY was? For closure? For the sake of truth? To know that it really ALL was a lie? Is part of detaching and moving on accepting there was more but never finding out?
> 
> I reread some Facebook convos and emails between her PA AP and EA AP this morning. Not sure why - maybe to solidify my decision to divorce. It was utterly wrenching. But it did what it was intended to do.


You answered your own question. You went and re examined your own evidence. You needed to make sure you did not miss something.

Normal for BH to want to know the whole truth. However BH's do vary into the level of detail they need.

Getting divorced or not the BH wants to know the damage.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

EI said:


> I know that had we not chose to reconcile there is no way that I would have put my husband, or myself, through the gut wrenching task of reliving every sordid detail of my betrayal. After D-Day, had we chosen to divorce, I would not have continued deceiving him, but I would have told him that "the details" were not going to serve any purpose other than causing him more pain. For me, the details that I withheld the longest were the ones about having met the xOM's parents and children, as well as his closest friends, and even his neighbors. To me, I felt that the physical aspects of the "A" were self-explanatory (I have since learned that most men, my husband included, do not view it that way..... they want detailed explanations.)
> 
> My greatest fear, in reconciling, was in having my husband realize the depth of the emotional connection I shared, at that point, with the xOM, because I knew that that was going to be the biggest obstacle for me to overcome. It was only after, months and months, of hours long, face-to-face conversations, emails, texts, and numerous phone calls, scattered throughout the day, while my husband was working, that the switch flipped for him and he finally realized that while he was trying to "overcome" the hurt, the fears and the anxiety associated with the sexual aspects of my affair, that I was struggling more with the emotional loss I was feeling as a result. I was being honest about it, but I tried to follow his lead as far as what information I shared with the greatest detail. This was a daily process for nearly a year. It isn't as intense, now, as it was even a few months ago, but it is always with us. It is just too painful, too draining and takes too great of a physical and emotional toll on both parties to go through this unless reconciliation is the goal. And, if it is, I believe that the WS must be willing to do whatever is necessary to help their BS heal. With that having been said, I would not have chosen to attempt reconciliation had my husband's intentions been only punitive, in nature, rather than healing. Our pre-A marriage had been punishing enough for both of us for several years. We were going to need to do the hard work of healing ourselves and our marriage or go our separate ways. We chose to reconcile.


To withhold hold the details because you would be divorcing instead of recovering would still be making you deceptive because you would be denying your BH the truth that he wanted.

Only the BH should control what he gets to hear. Because only the BH knows what he needs to hear.


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## TOMTEFAR (Feb 23, 2013)

I differ a bit to the others here. Since you have already decided to D why take more damage? You wont feel any better and whatever you WS would tell you would only add more hurt. Just go NC on your WS and get away from it all would be my approach. You're hurt enough as it is already.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

TOMTEFAR said:


> I differ a bit to the others here. Since you have already decided to D why take more damage? You wont feel any better and whatever you WS would tell you would only add more hurt. Just go NC on your WS and get away from it all would be my approach. You're hurt enough as it is already.


Yeah, that's my plan. And the kids are at their grandparents for a few days now, so I don't have to engage with her at all. Looking forward to that.


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