# Different priorities: spending & saving



## Sabariel (Jun 14, 2011)

Warning: "first world problem" and privilege-aware poster.

I'm a saver, hubby is a spender.

His philosophy is that he could die tomorrow (he works for the railroad, so it's not an irrational fear), and then what good does it do you to have a ton of money saved up and then die without having the fun of spending it?

My philosophy is that I most likely won't die tomorrow, and I really like the security that comes from a healthy savings account, as well as the idea of paying down the mortgage years faster, being able to pay cash for a car (even if we choose financing in order to get better returns on that cash), etc.

For the most part, he allows me to manage the money, and I put most of the surplus in savings. But once in a while, he gets a bit grumpy that he works really hard and then feels like he never gets to spend any of it. The thing is, he spends quite a bit of it, he just doesn't keep track. Because I know he feels this way, I don't try to stop him from spending when he wants to.

So I'm looking for two things:

1. How I can "let go?" At present, I'm in grad school and he makes most of the money, and he does allow me to save quite a bit of it. But the penny-pincher in me wants to SAVE ALL THE MONIES! So how do I get over it and find some balance?

2. Is there any way to show him how much he spends without "holding it against him?" i.e. I don't want him to take it as "See! You spent so much money, you terrible spendy person you!" ... I just want to be able to say "See! It's completely false that you 'never' get to spend your money!"


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## hopelessromantic1 (Feb 16, 2012)

Set up a separate checking account for "spending" and give him a card. Put a little more money in there than you think is fair, so he doesn't feel like a kid with a tiny allowance. Then show him the statement and he'll see how much he's spent where. I'm a spender, and this worked for me...H and I (he's a saver) got separate spending accounts and that's our blow money. No guilt about spending it, and when it's gone you have to wait until payday


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## Sabariel (Jun 14, 2011)

That's basically how we've been doing it all along. But somehow, it still didn't work.

One problem is that he gets torn. Intellectually, he sees the value of saving money, and sees unnecessary spending as wasteful. Emotionally, it's fun to spend money, and feels it's wasteful to have money sitting around in an account, not being fun. With me in the wings urging "save! save!" he would usually tip towards the intellectual side. But then emotionally, he would feel ripped off.

When he would feel guilty for wasting money, he would take a smaller allowance, usually less than he was really comfortable with. When it was gone, he'd feel ripped off because all the money he worked so hard for was just sitting around in savings, not being fun.

For me, it's not about "don't spend any money," it's about "money in savings stays in savings" unless it's an emergency or a long-term goal. Going to the bar or getting a massage doesn't qualify as an emergency.

So I'd suggest increasing the allowance to something he was comfortable with. He rejected that idea because he knew he would just waste it. I tried to tell him, I'd rather waste the money than have you feel resentful and then feel this need to take money out of savings to "have fun." Especially because the amount he would need to "make up" for not having fun was usually more than he actually would have spent.

It was like yo-yo dieting, but with money. If you always eat the right amount, you'll maintain your body weight. If you diet, you'll lose weight for a while, but then you'll feel denied, so you'll overeat and end up gaining more weight than where you started. He did the same thing with spending.

Also, all our previous allowances had been a "fixed" amount, e.g. same dollar amount each pay cheque. That's how I do my own allowances, because I like routine and predictability. But he didn't like that because it meant that if he worked a lot of overtime one month, more money would go into savings, but he wouldn't really "see" any of it for himself.

So we've now agreed on a strategy that he'll take 10% of whatever's left after the bills are paid, and the rest goes into savings. That way, if he works more, he gets to keep more for himself. The condition is that when it's gone, it's gone. Too bad, so sad.

By his request, I'll hold on to the money so he doesn't spend it mindlessly, and he doesn't want to know how much is in there because it will burn a hole in his pocket. When he wants to spend some of it, I'll transfer it to his chequing account. When it's gone, I'll tell him it's gone, and he'll just have to cope.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

How about have one fund for retirement, one liquid account for unexpected expenses (car repair, home repair, etc.) and a FUN account. Focus on the FUN you'll have with what is in that account. Ask him what he feels he's missing out on with it just sitting there. Choose a vacation, extravagant night out, an adventure - something to save toward that is FUN. 

Also, do you have elders you can ask for anecdotal stories about finances? i.e. My grandmother raised 5 kids during/after WWII on a secretaries' salary - my grandfather died of pneumonia when my mother (next to youngest) was 3 and the youngest was not quite 2.

Someone taking about the struggles they faced in retirement (hers was a tight budget all of her life and when she retired she had to be very cautious with money - closed off the upstairs so she didn't have to pay to heat it, etc.) might remind him that some of what you earn needs to be for fun because life is to be enjoyed; but how NOT fun would it be to struggle for survival when you are a senior citizen?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I already posted in your other thread, and this one confirmed for me that your approach is similar to my ex-husband's, while your husband's approach is similar to mine. I came around to his thinking, as it seems your husband is trying to do with you. However, like your husband, sometimes I felt that there was too little flexibility for certain things. 

Is there any reason he can't keep more of his overtime pay? For instance, if you guys agreed that "25% of your net overtime pay is your spending bonus for working so hard," then maybe both of your needs would be met and minimize resentments.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Not enough information to give a proper reply!! 

It's all relative imo. If retirement calculators put you well in the range you want to be by whatever desired age you want to retire then why not spend more of the excess?

I'm very much like your husband!! We max out our 401k and have 2 months worth of bills on hand, but other than that we spend!! 

You aren't going to be blowing money at 70-90 on fun things to do. When you are older will you say "Boy I wish I had even more money to leave the kids? That would be so much better than that European vacation, cruise, car, etc that we took or bought?"

You tell me are you setup for retirement? Do the calculators say you will be okay? 

Do you have 2-3 months in case of emergencies?

If so, why keep saving? Go live a little!!

**As far as buying a car cash? Or paying down a mortgage? Why? Car loans are 1-2% interest all day every day and mortages are under 5%. You can do far better with that money in the market than paying cash. In the longterm you are losing money doing it that way!!

My 401k has average 19.6% over the last 4 years!


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## Sabariel (Jun 14, 2011)

We actually don't have our retirement set up. We thought we did, but now the Gov't is talking about the Canada Pension Plan fund going bankrupt, and that my (our) generation won't get any of what we're currently paying into. He's only been with his company for a few years, so he hasn't built up much of a pension there either. Before that, he switched jobs all the time and none of them had any pensions. I've been a student most my life, so needless to say no pension there either.

We do have six months expenses saved up, so that's comforting. He's high-level in a unionized job with the railroad, and transcontinental transport will never go out of business. No matter how bad the economy gets, they still have to get lumber and oil across the country.

So all in all, our savings goals are not there yet. He's 42, so retirement isn't THAT far off. Not when you're starting from scratch. He's also at the peak of his earning potential. As he gets older, he just won't be able to keep up the hours he's putting in now. He works on the road because the overtime is better, but eventually I would like to be able to afford for him to work at home. Or, possibly for us to live a year abroad while I do a postdoc and he takes it easy.

That said, once we reach that point, I'm inclined to agree. I don't need to save all the money _forever_, I just don't feel like I'm at "enough" yet. We certainly couldn't retire on our 6 month emergency fund.



OhGeesh said:


> As far as buying a car cash? Or paying down a mortgage? Why? Car loans are 1-2% interest all day every day and mortages are under 5%. You can do far better with that money in the market than paying cash. In the longterm you are losing money doing it that way!!


Oh, completely agree. Much better to invest the cash. But what I meant is that I wouldn't buy a car new if I "couldn't afford" to pay cash. It's one thing to "choose" to make payments because it's the better financial gain. It's another thing entirely to get payments because it's the only way you "can" buy a car, which really means you can't afford it.

As for the mortgage, I'm inclined to agree but I've received mixed reviews. Some analysts are predicting the next decade's market to be pretty bad, possibly losses, so then it makes more sense to pay down the mortgage. Of course, it's a "where's my crystal ball when I need it" problem. I'm considering putting the cash in secured principal investments until the mortgage comes up for renewal (2 yrs), and then re-evaluate based on the new interest rate. But that's a 2.45% lower return on that money. However, if I invest it and it drops, then I won't want to pull it out for a lump sum payment. Then AGAIN if the markets drop again, my mortgage will renew at a lower rate. *sigh* So many options.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Sabariel said:


> We actually don't have our retirement set up. We thought we did, but now the Gov't is talking about the Canada Pension Plan fund going bankrupt, and that my (our) generation won't get any of what we're currently paying into. He's only been with his company for a few years, so he hasn't built up much of a pension there either. Before that, he switched jobs all the time and none of them had any pensions. I've been a student most my life, so needless to say no pension there either.
> 
> We do have six months expenses saved up, so that's comforting. He's high-level in a unionized job with the railroad, and transcontinental transport will never go out of business. No matter how bad the economy gets, they still have to get lumber and oil across the country.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you guys need to save alot if you are starting from scratch!! I guess save away, but get that money in investments not sitting in a bank.

As far as buying a car...........I pretty much disagree. Who saves that much in cash? Then makes a choice to buy cash or get a loan? 

Currently in the US there are tons of manufacturers offering even 0% intereste!! That means the bank just bought that car for you for free!! 

Either or you guys have some tough decisions to make. I hope you are alot younger than him 40's and still in school, why? I hope it's a dream or a a passion because starting a career at 40 regardless of the amount of school you have is rough. In fact, you will usually just get a job teaching what you just learned.

Best of luck!!  just keep talking I'm sure you guys will figure something out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sabariel said:


> 2. Is there any way to show him how much he spends without "holding it against him?" i.e. I don't want him to take it as "See! You spent so much money, you terrible spendy person you!" ... I just want to be able to say "See! It's completely false that you 'never' get to spend your money!"


I would keep a spreadsheet that you 'keep' for tax purposes. In case some of those things he buys can be used as tax writeoffs. Then, once a year, you add them all up and show it to him. Keep one for yourself as well. Show him both of them. Might also want to keep a tab on what your savings has earned you and will earn in the future. He probably just doesn't 'see' it cos it isn't real.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Someone has already posted the idea of having separate accounts for different purposes (long / short term savings, living expenses and FUN).

I think that as long as your household is running a surplus you should both be rewarded with a proportion of the combined income for FUN.

One of my daughters has just started an apprenticeships so does not earn a great deal but I have told her she should get into the habit of splitting her take home pay into 4, Something for her Mum towards her keep, daily expenses, long term savings and importantly FUN.

IMHO people (youngsters in particular) need to see a reward for hard work. All work and no Play etc.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wiltshireman, don't forget charity.


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## Sabariel (Jun 14, 2011)

My own "pocket money" budget is built in to my "bills" umbrella. The amount I receive is more than enough, as I always seem able to do whatever I want, and still build up enough surplus that I can buy a new electronic gadget at least once a year.

I'm a quiet homebody, so most of my "fun" is free. When I do go out, I don't enjoy myself if it costs too much. For me, spending copious amounts of money actually detracts from the fun.

We have a small "travel" budget that's mainly for me to visit family at xmas and summer. If we go on any trips together, we just take it out of savings. Because we don't get carried away, I haven't felt a need to budget for them. If I didn't believe we could afford a big trip, we just wouldn't go.

I actually don't believe in the value of using punishment & reward systems. These systems are features of domination tactics used by so-called authority figures to control populations, manipulating them into doing things they don't really want to do. Instead, I believe that people are happier when they make contributions to the well-being of others for the sake of enriching life, when they work hard because they enjoy their jobs and see it as play, and when they do fun things because it enriches their own lives.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why is the travel budget mainly for YOU? Does he go away on trips, too?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sabariel said:


> Instead, I believe that people are happier when they make contributions to the well-being of others for the sake of enriching life, when they work hard because they enjoy their jobs and see it as play, and when they do fun things because it enriches their own lives.


That's great that you believe that.

But what does your husband believe?

And are you implying - to us AND to him - that what he believes is wrong?


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## Sabariel (Jun 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> Why is the travel budget mainly for YOU? Does he go away on trips, too?


That's a valid question.

The budgets, my "envelopes," represent spending we were already doing, and just a way to keep track of them. In other words, I travel to see my family every summer and some Christmases, about 9 hours drive away so substantial cost in fuel. He also visits his family, about 1.5-4 hours away a few times per year (less now that his grandma has passed on), and this fuel is also covered by that budget.

These types of trips are somewhat predictable and can be budgeted for. Rather than say to myself "I'm just going on these trips anyway, so I'll take it out of savings" I say "I'm going to budget for these so I can have an idea of what they cost." In other words, more about tracking than real budgeting. If the cost of these trips goes over, it goes over. That goes for his travel as well as mine.

He also goes on a big vacation every 1-2 years, usually a cruise, multi-thousand dollar affairs once you factor all the costs and spending money. These we've just taken out of savings because it made sense at the time. Now I'm finding I'd like more predictability even in these major expenditures, so now he has a budget for FUN, and it's up to him to decide whether that's going to a year's worth of heavy drinking and massages, or a big expensive cruise, or a combination of the two.

I think that's fair. Otherwise, I feel like my options are either to give him free reign over the savings or else to overlord and decide which expenditures are "valid" from savings. Neither option appeals to me. This way, he still gets to have his fun and he gets some free reign, but within a limited scope that we're both comfortable with.

This also lets him see how much he's spending. Otherwise, I'm not keeping track of $120 here, $80 there, and it all adds up, but he doesn't see it add up and so he feels like he "never" gets to spend anything. He thinks much better in terms of "I have this much left to spend" rather than "I've already spent this much." In other words, "why does it matter how much I've spent, when there's still x left?" Whether his spending represents 10%, 20%, or 50% of what used to be there doesn't seem to register. And what do you use as "used to?" Any reference point is arbitrary.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Sabariel said:


> This also lets him see how much he's spending. Otherwise, I'm not keeping track of $120 here, $80 there, and it all adds up, but he doesn't see it add up and so he feels like he "never" gets to spend anything. He thinks much better in terms of "I have this much left to spend" rather than "I've already spent this much." In other words, "why does it matter how much I've spent, when there's still x left?" Whether his spending represents 10%, 20%, or 50% of what used to be there doesn't seem to register. And what do you use as "used to?" Any reference point is arbitrary.


Which is exactly how I am!!! The only difference between you guys and us (wife and I) is we will be retired by 55. 

Get your retirement squared away and spend away!!


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## Boricha (Sep 29, 2013)

It would really depend on your ages. If you're young and still in school, and intend to work as soon as you graduate, your financial goal makes sense. If you're in your 40s and still in school, you should have less say in what happens financially.

If you're so concerned about retirement, why are you not working, even part time?


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