# losing hope



## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

My wife and I's sex life is like a roller coaster. There is times when its fairly good, maybe around once a week (which is acceptable to me), and she throws in enough non-vanilla stuff to keep me begging for more. But this 'up-tick' in sex usually happens we have 'the talk' and I tell her I'm getting frustrated with the lack of sex, etc. And the down times are much more frequent.
FYI, we've been married for over 10 years, both in mid-thirties, have two kids, 7 and 4, and we both work full-time.
Its the downturns that I find so frustrating. It comes across to me that any excuse is a good one. And the boxes that have to be checked before she entertains the idea of sex - its a large checklist. I attempt to be romantic, flowers, compliments, etc - nothing. I help out around the house - nothing. Over the weekend, I gave her a full body massage, the kinds I use to give BC (before children) - nothing. Now let me say, massages to us aren't a pre-cursor to foreplay, a massage is just a massage. Now I give them because she loves them, so I don't expect an immediate return, but hope maybe later she reciprocates in another way , nothing. I asked her later, if she got a little horny from the massage, she responded 'not even a little bit'. 
I workout, so I'm in good shape. She tells me I'm just as physically attractive to her when we first met. I try to dress well. Take her on dates. I even try and not be too 'beta' and be this spineless doter. I am naturally passive, and she's more of a control freak, but I do assert myself when I need to. 
She's told me when we do talk about sex, that she probably hasn't been horny in a couple of years, but once we do get going and we get 'hot and heavy' she does get in the mood, and orgasms almost every time. She tells me she's not in the mood, *like ever* (no exaggeration), because she's too tired. That I don't comprehend how exhausted she is. Even though I sleep alot less than she does . 
If you ask how sex does get initiated between us. I gave up asking or trying to seduce her. Its a no-go. We have sex when her personal checklist is completed and/or she feels guilty because we've gone too long without it. It never EVER is because she wants to be with me, strictly out of duty. No matter how many ways, hows, etc I try to communicate that I need to be intimate with her to feel loved, its like talking to a brick wall.
She's manages our home well, is great about being wise with our money, she tries to be affectionate, pay the occasional compliment, etc. She makes and packs my lunch everyday, serves me dinner when I get home. Point being, she's a good wife. We have our standard arguments over raising the kids, money, etc., but that's normal. She's just a indifferent lover. She wasn't always like this. She was the first person in my life that ever made me feel intrinsically worthy. She was love-personified to me. But she has let all the little worries and details of life get in the way of us. She can't see the forest for the trees. She was the most amazing woman I ever met, and I feel she was placed on this Earth for me, my own personal Eve. She's just not that woman anymore. She's completely preoccupied with all the minutia of life. And no matter how I try to alleviate those burdens, there's always something to preoccupy her from me. 
And yes, I've told her all of this a million times.
Its getting so old - I'm becoming more disenfranchised with our marriage.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

My husband felt like this once and was ready to seek it elsewhere....we went to mc, the mc ad to me after we both spoke our sides that she just heard from him that sex was first on his list instead of quality time and from me that my husband was last on my list, stuck with me, we learned tools to make our marriage a priority, which included making sex a priority and for a woman means taking her mind and her sexuality into her own hands to ensure she keeps the drive up....just a thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

My wife finds she has to prepare herself for about 20-30 minutes in advance. She uses this time to clear her mind of daily matters and focus on me. So perhaps try and schedule sex a few times a week and ask her to try and focus on you. 

If she doesn't have any objections, offer to just have foreplay and tell her you're not going to initiate intercourse. She may ask you for sex after a while, or she may not... either way you two will really enjoy each other.

For my wife, I know that timing is key. If I try when she's really tired odds are there she really won't be up to doing anything.

Don't take it personally though, it's not that she doesn't love you.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

My wife takes twenty to thirty minutes Before bed anyway w her bath. The scheduled time for sex would never happen she finds it too regimented. Anyway we usually only have sex on weekend nights. So the the scheduled time already is indirectly in effect. I've offered the foreplay instead intercourse option before - she actually prefers intercourse. That doesn't make an iota of difference to her she still has to get in the mood when she's too tired.

The fact is she says she loves but her actions say I've got more important things to do and worry about. Myself and my needs aren't a priority just another burden.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If your needs are put consistently on her back burner, that aint love. Not sure what you'd call it. When she ignores your needs, you respond by blowing increasing quantities of powder sugar up her backside. If every time you screwed up at work, your boss responded by showering you with raises, perks, and lavish praise, you wouldn't make much effort to improve or to please your boss.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

unbelievable said:


> If your needs are put consistently on her back burner, that aint love. Not sure what you'd call it. When she ignores your needs, you respond by blowing increasing quantities of powder sugar up her backside. If every time you screwed up at work, your boss responded by showering you with raises, perks, and lavish praise, you wouldn't make much effort to improve or to please your boss.


When the sex dries up I tend to withdraw emotionally and be distant. She knows something is up but as she tells me when I get moody and distant cause of no sex she has even less will to be intimate with me. So my options are pretend nothing is wrong and be patient w her until the next "up-tick" in sex, sit down with her and explain calmly (for the hundredth time) that it's been too long AGAIN or emotionally withdraw. Any of my options are exhautlsting and I have less and less will to carry them out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DesertRat (May 1, 2012)

effess said:


> When the sex dries up I tend to withdraw emotionally and be distant. She knows something is up but as she tells me when I get moody and distant cause of no sex she has even less will to be intimate with me. So my options are pretend nothing is wrong and be patient w her until the next "up-tick" in sex, sit down with her and explain calmly (for the hundredth time) that it's been too long AGAIN or emotionally withdraw. Any of my options are exhautlsting and I have less and less will to carry them out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I registered on this forum simply to reply to this post. Dude, YOU ARE ME, and your wife is a clone of mine. I'm at my wit's end. I'm hoping some women in here will have more ideas. I've reached the point where I have decided my wife is probably just not into sex much in general and things will probably never turn back around. I also don't think she understands the emotional toll it takes on me, and how much it impacts our marriage even though i try to explain it.

The worst part is in the past several years a couple times she's said "YOu're not going to go have sex with someone else, right? I know that's what happens to guys when they don't get any." So she knows she is doing our marriage harm...but doesn't seem all that dedicated to fixing it.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

it is frustrating. i know my wife takes every other problem she encounters head on and throws all her being into solving it. many of them i have no interest in, and i really dont care. i have seen her crawl over broken glass to solve certain issues, but she wont even glance in the direction of our intimacy issues. its difficult to admit but i finally realized it really speaks volumes as to her priorities. our sex life isnt one of them.

i have really backed off of giving two s--ts about whats important to her. we basically live our lives doing our own thing, although all of what we do goes into raising our kids and maintaining our family unit and home.


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## Bluemoon1 (Mar 29, 2012)

I hate to tell you this, but never ever, ever, and I mean ever ask a woman for advice in these situations, because what you will get is advice that is bound not to work, like "have a talk about it" "do more about the house" which will result in even less sex

It's not their fault, because most of them beleive that, and have convinced loads of men that this is the way to solve the problem, but the problem in most cases is pretty basic (as I have found out) and it's she does not desire you, for whatever reason, sure you might get the odd scrap of sex to keep you in line (and keep the good things flowing).

Sexual desire is instinct, the only way she will desire you, is if you become the best you can be 

Try this thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read Athol Kay 



DesertRat said:


> I registered on this forum simply to reply to this post. Dude, YOU ARE ME, and your wife is a clone of mine. I'm at my wit's end. I'm hoping some women in here will have more ideas. I've reached the point where I have decided my wife is probably just not into sex much in general and things will probably never turn back around. I also don't think she understands the emotional toll it takes on me, and how much it impacts our marriage even though i try to explain it.
> 
> The worst part is in the past several years a couple times she's said "YOu're not going to go have sex with someone else, right? I know that's what happens to guys when they don't get any." So she knows she is doing our marriage harm...but doesn't seem all that dedicated to fixing it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DesertRat said:


> The worst part is in the past several years a couple times she's said "YOu're not going to go have sex with someone else, right? I know that's what happens to guys when they don't get any." So she knows she is doing our marriage harm...but doesn't seem all that dedicated to fixing it.


Umm, I'm not sure I would interpret your wife's words in this manner. Another possibility is that she feels a slowdown in the sex life is appropriate at this stage in marriage, those "guys" to whom she refers are selfish and immature for getting their sexual needs met outside of marriage, and she expects "better" from you.

Your response should be that as she is not providing (and does not intend to provide) for your sexual satisfaction then she has no right to fidelity. However, you intend to adhere to your vow of fidelity as a sign of self-respect and a sacrifice to her, in the hope that she will treat you in a manner deserving of that fidelity at some point in the future.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Efess - she needs to understand what sex means. Does she understand that it is an emotional more than physical need? You W seems typical, many women do think about sex and are not into it until it is underway. She and you need to understand that - it may make her willing to start. 

Read sex-starved marriage. First chapter is free on amazon. Have your W read it. My W is in the same place, but is coming around (slowly). But, now she understands. For the first 6 months of this fight, regardless of what I said, she thought of sex as just the physical release and a selfish want on my behalf (although I am not selfish in that regard). That is not what sex is and she now understands it.

Also, making a concerted effort to not care about things and to explain your position to her in an unemotional way (explain emotions unemotionally) can help. E.g., sex is an expected part of a relationship, it is a significant element of how I understand you love me, without it (when you are able, just not willing), all I hear is how unimportant I am, because that is what you are saying.


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## photomom (May 1, 2012)

as a woman, there have been very few times that I have refused to have sex with my husband. even if I wasn't "in the mood". because It doesnt have to be crazy stuff, just a little something to remind each other that you still feel that spark. I would be fine with once a week! but once a month? or three? big blow to the ego. It really hurts.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

okeydokie said:


> i have really backed off of giving two s--ts about whats important to her. we basically live our lives doing our own thing, although all of what we do goes into raising our kids and maintaining our family unit and home.


See this last part is exactly the problem. She is perfectly happy having your focus being the home and family, because this is where her priorities are (they obviously are not with you). She gets her way, albeit indirectly, with you. You, at the end of the day, put forth a ton of effort for insufficient return.

Are time and resources really so strained that you cannot scrape out a bit for yourself? Will the sky really fall if the lawn gets mowed every other week, instead of every week, or if your wife simply has to wait to have the house freshly painted, etc.?

Try this: do more for yourself. Go out with your friends from work and let her take care of things herself for a few hours. Then, take yourself and the kids somewhere and let her stay at home and reflect on the solitude. I all but guarantee she will take notice and stop taking you for granted, even if there is no overall improvement in the relationship.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

SprucHub said:


> Efess - she needs to understand what sex means. Does she understand that it is an emotional more than physical need? You W seems typical, many women do think about sex and are not into it until it is underway. She and you need to understand that - it may make her willing to start.
> 
> Read sex-starved marriage. First chapter is free on amazon. Have your W read it. My W is in the same place, but is coming around (slowly). But, now she understands. For the first 6 months of this fight, regardless of what I said, she thought of sex as just the physical release and a selfish want on my behalf (although I am not selfish in that regard). That is not what sex is and she now understands it.
> 
> Also, making a concerted effort to not care about things and to explain your position to her in an unemotional way (explain emotions unemotionally) can help. E.g., sex is an expected part of a relationship, it is a significant element of how I understand you love me, without it (when you are able, just not willing), all I hear is how unimportant I am, because that is what you are saying.


I've done all this. I've talked to her a hundred ways trying to explain that I appreciate her managing our money well, and cooking for me, but I can pay for an accountant, or move back in with my mom to get the cooking! But I feel loved, I feel wanted and desired when we have a regular and exciting sex life. Nothing - she just sits there with nothing to say. But you better believe if I was talking about buying something she thought was pointless, she would be _very_ engaged in the conversation. 
I even read this exact book cover to cover, Sex-Starved Marriage. I put it by her bath where she keeps all her other books and magazines. She perused it a few times, and says she got the gist of it. She even told me she 'understood' that the HD spouse feels rejected, alone and unwanted - but to "not feel like that, those aren't her intentions"  - gee thanks . Which proved to me, 1) she barely gave the book a chance, and 2), she still doesn't get it. 
In her eyes, if I take what she tells me at face-value; "okay husband, I get what your saying, but I have so much on my plate and I'm so overwhelmed and tired, I can honestly care less about sex - my own needs are not being met!". Which I understand. So I try and help more around the house, to go out on weekends (which she never does) to blow off steam, sleep in, go to bed earlier, etc. Point being I try to address her concerns - nothing changes, its only gotten worse. 
As I wrote before, whenever I talk about our relationship, or our sex life, she just sits there and barely says anything. But one very enlightening comment she made was during one of our sex talks was, and I'm paraphrasing - "I don't even know how you have time to think about yourself like this when I have real stuff to worry about".................. I think that comment says it all. Sometimes I'm a convenience, sometimes a annoyance, but definitely not a priority anymore.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I'd agree with Bluemoon's comment; beware of advice about talking about it and "doing more around the house."


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## mompres (May 1, 2012)

I am a woman but have had the same problem with my husband for years. He just wasn't interested in sex it seems. I don't have much advice other than that it won't get better on it's own. State your needs clearly so there is no misunderstanding. Explain to her what you need and why it's important to you and the toll you feel it takes on the relationship when you aren't intimate. Don't play the games where you do everything for her in hopes it will get better. That's just using you. I would keep talking to her about it because when one person gives up something so important it only leads to resentment in the end.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

DTO said:


> See this last part is exactly the problem. She is perfectly happy having your focus being the home and family, because this is where her priorities are (they obviously are not with you). She gets her way, albeit indirectly, with you. You, at the end of the day, put forth a ton of effort for insufficient return.
> 
> Are time and resources really so strained that you cannot scrape out a bit for yourself? Will the sky really fall if the lawn gets mowed every other week, instead of every week, or if your wife simply has to wait to have the house freshly painted, etc.?
> 
> Try this: do more for yourself. Go out with your friends from work and let her take care of things herself for a few hours. Then, take yourself and the kids somewhere and let her stay at home and reflect on the solitude. I all but guarantee she will take notice and stop taking you for granted, even if there is no overall improvement in the relationship.


i think we are on the same wavelength here. my kids all have incredible schedules and i enjoy taking them to their tournaments every weekend. i also take them to several pro sports events because we only have 4 tickets and she stays home. i also do what i want (when i can) and travel for work so we just dont spend much time together anymore and i frankly dont miss it much. when things were better i would focus more on her, but now not so much


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

> She perused it a few times, and says she got the gist of it. She even told me she 'understood' that the HD spouse feels rejected, alone and unwanted - but to "not feel like that, those aren't her intentions" - gee thanks . Which proved to me, 1) she barely gave the book a chance, and 2), she still doesn't get it.


She's not putting forward any effort for two reasons....One, she doesn't HAVE to. You leaving her over this is not now a fear of hers. Two, she has lost attraction for you.

My wife is an example. In her previous marriage, sex was infrequent, and in the last 5 years, completely non-existent. She thought there was something wrong with her, and also simply was just not attracted to him. He was an okay looking guy, but there was so much anxiety between them over him being inconsiderate, a drunk, etc., that it just shut her sex drive down. They divorced. She met me. Her non-existent sex drive skyrocketed, and has stayed that way. But, there was a short period of time where it was not so. I tried to talk about it, and she dismissed it. And did it again when I brought it up. Okay, I've been down this road, and knew what not to do. I was not going to be kissing her butt, doing more around the house and trying to romance the unromantic. Instead I put the foot down. Told her I was not happy about it, and if this was the beginning of something worse, we may as well end it now, because I would not live like that again (did so with my ex, and she knew the story). I stayed polite, but stopped kissing her azz. I continued to do things for me, and not once did I ever beg, plead, or kiss her butt. I knew she'd be horny eventually. When she was, I rocked her world. Next time, same thing. She got her drive back real quick! And I went back to treating her as she was again treating me...a loving partner.

We are both busy as can be. Yet, we still have plenty of time for sex. So the dishes don't get done. So the garage is a mess for another weekend. That does not stop us. All this crap about "do more for her around the house" is just that...crap. If you've been doing your share around the house, you should not increase that. If you haven't, then yes, you should start. But don't expect anything to change over just that. And when it doesn't, it is time to start acting like a man who can walk away from a loveless marriage because you won't put up with it, right? Don't wine to her that "Hey, I've BEEN helping around the house like you asked...why aren't we having sex yet?" Don't wine, don't ask. She needs to come to you when she's feeling the attraction come back. That won't be because you're wearing a freakin' apron and doing dishes....(But yes, you should still carry your share around the house. Just don't expect anything from it, you were supposed to be doing that in the first place).


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Some people I've discovered, would rather watch you burn the house down than pick up a fire extinguisher. Some people who would rather force you to force them to do something they want to do anyway but don't want to own it. 

In all honestly I sincerely believe that women are programmed from an early age to wield sex like a weapon when it suits them. And doing without is better than losing an argument or a power struggle and I don't honestly believe that their own withholding is any significant sacrifice on their part. They don't want sex, they want victory. 

Maybe that's a harsh word, but it seems to me that from teenager hood onward, girls are taught that controlling sex is controlling men, and it is, and as they mature that becomes their hardwired behavior. The go-to switch is "NO". I don't think there's a magic bullet or a solution or a set of activities or suchlike that fixes that, because men are trying to figure how to get women to stop saying "NO" and women are trying to figure out how to leverage "NO" into more victories. So men spend their lives being lead around by their 'nads and women are perfectly content to wait them out. Because "YES" to them means giving in, surrender, losing. It's a lose-lose proposition where the only winning move is not to play. My wife said point blank one day "NO, no more, I'm done" perhaps thinking that if she didn't own that problem long enough then I would. That if she hung on the cross long enough she could declare a bitter victory. Because inside every martyr beats the heart of tyrant. So my response has been "Ok, suits me fine, bang your head on the wall. I respect and cherish you that much less."


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

effess said:


> I even read this exact book cover to cover, Sex-Starved Marriage. I put it by her bath where she keeps all her other books and magazines. She perused it a few times, and says she got the gist of it. She even told me she 'understood' that the HD spouse feels rejected, alone and unwanted - but to "not feel like that, those aren't her intentions"  - gee thanks . Which proved to me, 1) she barely gave the book a chance, and 2), she still doesn't get it.


Does she understand the depth of pain this causes you?

Does she see the resentment and/or anger building within you over this issues?

Does she know the hopelessness you feel over the situation?

Does she understand that it would be the same as if you didn't talk, look or touch her... for years on end?

Does she understand that if this continues, no matter how strong of a man you are, this path you two are on only leads to one or more of the following:

1.) You will become more callous, resentful, distant, bitter and angry

2.) You will cheat on her

3.) You will leave her

This constant rejection and lack of love will grind on your soul day after day, year after year, decade after decade. It will continue to grow and worsen... and it WILL change you for the worse. Does she understand that, that it is inevitable given your current path?

She needs to understand that it's not just sex, but it's desire for you you need as well.


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

donny64 said:


> Just don't expect anything from it, you were supposed to be doing that in the first place).


People, quit making this so complicated. Donny has it right.

Stop with the sermons to your wife. 

Get busy fixing yourself. 

To quote Toby Keith, let's see "a little less talk and a lot more action". 

Make that a LOT less talk.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

FormerNiceGuy said:


> People, quit making this so complicated. Donny has it right.
> 
> Stop with the sermons to your wife.
> 
> ...


The problem is that that doesn't always fix things. If your SO has lost all desire, you can wait... and wait... and wait...

Trust me I did and waiting NEVER availed any change whatsoever (except a total lack of any sexual activity for 6+ months). I know in many cases it does, but not all cases.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

effess and DesertRat,

We are definitely kindered souls! What say we get together this weekend for some drinks and a b*tch session?

Short version of my story is very much like effess. Wife does so much for me including the lunches and dinner parts. DShe definitely takes care of me, making sure I eat right, have clothes ready for work and has done a great job raising our kids (13, 18 &20)

She works part time but also does alot of volunteer type work (Girl scouts, booster club for HS sports) and things along these lines that give her some sort of validation. Many times in these volunteer roles she winds up doing it all. People who were supposed to help don't. 

What this leads to is me being very angry at other people and her since she can't seem to find the time for us to be intimate, except maybe on weekends.

As I've told my stories before, I've pulled back a bit from what i do for and with her and I know she's noticed. I am still polite and outgoing around her and do my share of the common work but I no longer suggest that we go out and do something, I no longer come up behind her and give her a hug and a kiss or a pat on the fanny

I do more stuff for just me, go out with friends (of course I let her know in advance that I won'y be home for dinner), go fishing, and leave more of the dishes for her to do (I used to do pretty much all of them when I got home at night)

I could go on but won't bore you with details. It seems that she'll have sex with me when she feels I've drifted too far out. That tends to suck me back into her gravitational pull for a while and then it's back to the same old same old.

It's truly a shame because other than this issue (ok, and maybe my in-laws to a degree) she's perfect! Unfortunately, this pull back has started to make me feel even more distant towards her although it has made me feel better about myself. Don't know what the long term holds but I am planning on one last ditch discussion in June and then I'll have a hard choice to make. I don't know how much time I have left (I'm 50) on this palnet but I know I don't want it to be lacking in the sex department if there's anything I can do about it!


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Toffer said:


> effess and DesertRat,
> 
> We are definitely kindered souls! What say we get together this weekend for some drinks and a b*tch session?
> 
> ...


Toffer count me in too, I'll buy a round or two, sounds like were in the same lake.lol..I'm so low on her priority list, she knows what physical affection means to me (I'm not just talking sex) I would move mountains, walk thru hell and smile about it, if she would WANT to kiss me, hug me, give a back rub. I'm a damn good man, and shes a great woman, the most beautiful,sexy, woman I have ever seen,and the most intelligent..
she will always look like the 23yr old I first met, even now 15yrs later, she still takes my breath away with a smile...the 1st and only woman I ever wrote poetry for, I could go on and on...

I'm done talking about my feelings regarding it, since she's not interested in meeting my needs I am..made some new friends, lifting weights, awesome shape now, havent been like this since early 30's, got women at the gym checking me out, flirty with me. I'm doing things for me, got into a new hobby with the new friends.. having a blast, takes a lot of my time up,tinkering in the garage doing man stuff, still being very nice to her, I was always the one to say ILY first, the hugs, cuddeling in bed etc, dont know if I seemed needy by that, so I quit and am trying to give her space to love me...

I'm not pissed or upset about any of it anymore, its not a matter of I will show her/testing of wills, manulipuation or anything remotley close to it..just making myself self less available...I guess you could say I'm deataching myself from the marriage somewhat..and for now I'm pretty happy


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

> Trust me I did and waiting NEVER availed any change whatsoever (except a total lack of any sexual activity for 6+ months). I know in many cases it does, but not all cases.


You are correct. In not all cases does this work. But here's the beauty of it: While he's putting his foot down, showing her he's not going to take it, he's also working on himself. Going to the gym. Getting interests outside the house. Take an interest in something. Something new and interesting she is not and will not be a part of (I believe ALL couples NEED this type of thing..."me time" and a constructive interest away from the spouse, regardless of circumstances). Start golfing. Start training for a marathon. Meet new people through this. You are doing several things here. Showing her you're not someone who's just going to wait around for her to enjoy your life. You are also improving yourself. You are also getting that little twinge going in the back of her brain that is asking herself...."Hmmm, he's looking better, he's spending time on this activity I know nothing about with people I do not know. Is he up to something?" She'll start to feel a little threatened or sense of loss, or at least knowledge that your world doesn't revolve around her and she could lose you. Feeling threatened (the threat that someone else could find their mate interesting) is a great motivator to keep someone on their toes and making sure you're so happy in the relationship that you do not want to stray or have anyone else interested in you.

I guess what I was saying is no, it may not work to get her to come around, but the absolute beauty of all this is he is showing both himself and her he can have his own life. AND he is preparing himself NOW for his NEXT life if she chooses not to move on with him from where they are. That is why this CANNOT be just an act or a ploy to change her. That can't be his entire motivation, otherwise he'll lose motivation to keep it up when it does not change her. And he'll be waiting for results from her and getting frustrated. The results he should be looking for is to make himself a better, more interesting man, regardless of how she responds...because she may not. My bet, however, is that she will respond. Quite favorably when that nagging little doubt starts to creep into her brain. Right now, there is none. She has no reason to change.

If she does change, even if out of a little fear at first, I'll also bet she starts to feel some attraction and desire for him. And then, the snowball starts rolling down another hill and gaining speed, just like it did before, even though it was the wrong hill.


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## mompres (May 1, 2012)

donny64 said:


> I guess what I was saying is no, it may not work to get her to come around, but the absolute beauty of all this is he is showing both himself and her he can have his own life. AND he is preparing himself NOW for his NEXT life if she chooses not to move on with him from where they are.



I agree that working on yourself and preparing either way is a good thing. Finding other ways to make yourself happy and confident is so important. But it could make things worse so be prepared for that. She could come around or she could get angry and jealous and wonder what's going on and dig in her heels more. That's what happened with my husband. In my case I did lose 50 pounds and have started focusing on me more. My husband hates this. Not enough to come around and work on things. It's made him angry. Good luck with this. It takes a toll I know.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

I agree totally donny64. Definitely working on yourself when the relationship isn't giving you the connection you want/need is important. If for no other reason than taking hours you would spend brooding over the situation you don't like and putting those hours to use doing something you love.

Personally I've done just that as of late, I've been working out like I've not done since I was in college. It feels freaking great!  I love my shrinking waistline and definition coming back to my chest/leg muscles (still working on those abs ).

Just think that it's important while doing all that... to not loose sight of continuing to communicate with your SO about what you feel is missing in the relationship.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Struglinghusnand said:

"I'm not pissed or upset about any of it anymore, its not a matter of I will show her/testing of wills, manulipuation or anything remotley close to it..just making myself self less available...I guess you could say I'm deataching myself from the marriage somewhat..and for now I'm pretty happy"

You nailed it with this statement, especyially about how you feel you're detaching from the marriage. 

I think i was too available and doing so mant things that she liked and loved and that was the reason I did them. When I finally couldn't reason away why I was unhappy and felt disconnected, I started to do a lot of reading and came across the section that discussed how men bond through the intimacy of sex and the light bulb went off in my head. That was what was missing and causing me to feel like less of a man!

I've posted stories before about how, after a particualrly good day or event my wife would look me in the eyes and say "I am going to give you some great sex tonight" and by the time it rolled around to that magic hour, she'd fall asleep or there'd be another reason not to (had too much to drink (referece "fall asleep") etc). Sure, there were times I woke her up and we had fun but after a while, that just didn't feel right anymore.


On Valentines, she actually gave me a pair of her sexy underwear (thong) in an envelope. Boy was I pumped! Nothing that night but I was OK with that afterall, it was a weekday and I uess I could wait for the weekend. 

Well, three weeks came and went and I finally removed the thong from the envelope, threw the envelope in the trashcan in our room (where I hoped she see it) and put the thong back in her underwear drawer. She did see it a day or two later and asked why I threw it out and what I did with the thong. I told her (without any emotion) that since it seemed it wasn't going to happen, I thought I should put her underwear back. Finally got to see her in it 11 weeks later.

We've had the talks, done the worksheets and seen the counselors over the years. I have the T-Shirts and the hats.


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## Bluemoon1 (Mar 29, 2012)

All men have a few options in low sex marriages

1. Put up with it, and live the rest of their lives with the constant hurt of rejection and broken trust, and live with the resentment, until their own sex drive starts to dwindle if it ever does

2. Become the best man you can be, get fit and healthy, get some outside interests (you find out what to do on here) may be at the end she will desire you, may be she won't but you will be in a much better position to find someone else who will meet your needs

3. Divorce her right now

Nothing else is going to work I am afraid, I have done it all, got the books (she never read them) tried the long talks (I should have got the message when she was looking the other way when I was talking about it) tried to be extra loving, did more around the house, gave her more money, begged and pleaded. 

What is starting to work is me getting off my backside and doing something about myself, sure things are still not as they should be, but I feel a lot better about myself, she is getting confused and insecure, we still get on but I am not prepared to live as a room-mate nor should anyone.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

I agree with Bluemoon. 

Getting the outside interests and doing more for myself.

Unfortunately, I do feel a little detached from the relationship and that's kind of sad for me but I'm getting past it

What complicates it for me is that every now and then, she really seems into me and enjoying it and then it just dries up again!

This summer ought to be interesting! Think I'll finally make a decision before the school year starts again


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## Bluemoon1 (Mar 29, 2012)

Toffer said:


> I agree with Bluemoon.
> 
> Getting the outside interests and doing more for myself.
> 
> ...


Speaking for myself the path I have chosen has not been easy, my nice guy tendencies are all still there, only tonight I was fretting about going tot he gym again, then I thought hang about did she ever fret about rejecting me? No she was happy with the status que. 

But there is really no alternative, like I said I tried everything, I even got her some libido enhancing supplement (one that got rave reviews from other women) it's still in it's box LOL :rofl:


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## inmygut (Apr 2, 2011)

Bluemoon1 said:


> I hate to tell you this, but never ever, ever, and I mean ever ask a woman for advice in these situations, because what you will get is advice that is bound not to work, like "have a talk about it" "do more about the house" which will result in even less sex
> 
> It's not their fault, because most of them beleive that, and have convinced loads of men that this is the way to solve the problem, but the problem in most cases is pretty basic (as I have found out) and it's she does not desire you, for whatever reason, sure you might get the odd scrap of sex to keep you in line (and keep the good things flowing).
> 
> ...


Agree with the Athol Kay suggestion. His MMSL book is a must read. And no, I am not him. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

Well funny enough we had sex last night. It turned out to be not very good, shes been struggling with some yeast infection so she never got in the mood. But i still appreciAted the effort - especially on a weekday. But I'm glad she cared enough to try. 
Thanks for all the advice to everyone. 
I'm definitely going to try and incorporate all this. I've been much less beta in general the past year. But no more 'talks' that's for sure. This summer I'm going to try and do more things myself go out for beers after work more often etc. Much less asking for permission to do things and buy things - I'm just doing it. 
And the next time the 'drought' gets too long - she's getting an ultimatum. Things change or were done. I've never ever put that out out there. 
If anyone can add to that let me know. 
And to any of the guys on here who identified w my story feel free to hit me up if they want to vent or brag!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

effes,

Good luck guy! If you ever do anymore talking, it's best to throw in that "A change to our frequency is not a two or three month deal. It's a "forever after" deal just like this marriage!"


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

She will string you along just as long as it takes for you to threaten her again.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Good for you! just make sure that you are being the best you possible, a man with confidence about himself attracts women. 

Just make sure if you get to the ultimatum stage and you throw it out there, you better be able to back it up. IE: not being angry.. you are calm and rash...your mind is in the right place ,you accept her for who she is and understand it but actually see yourself happier without her and honestly know you will be..........

I honest to god hope my wife sees that I'm heading in that direction and stops me 1st....really stops me for the right reasons............


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

effess said:


> This summer I'm going to try and do more things myself go out for beers after work more often etc. Much less asking for permission to do things and buy things - I'm just doing it.
> And the next time the 'drought' gets too long - she's getting an ultimatum. Things change or were done. I've never ever put that out out there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you!

LOL just watch the waistline, don't need to get a beer belly. 

It is important to make clear what you expect out of your marriage. Don't be dogmatic to the point where you've lost sight of reasonable compromise. Don't compromise too much. There's a line you want to strive for between these two extremes.

I for one have great confidence that you are on your way to getting there to that happy balance.


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