# H will go out with his guy friends but not me



## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Not related to my other thread from yesterday so have posted this seperately...

In November I found out a group of mine and H's friends were going out for beers for Christmas (on this Saturday just gone.) I thought this would be a great opportunity for me and H to go out together on a "date" of sorts and catch up with everyone as we do not get out often.

So I run it by him, he is like OK. Arrange for his mom to have the kids weeks in advance. I get new shoes, plan my outfit and am really looking forward to some grown up time with H and have a couple of drinks.

A couple of days before we are due to go out, I am speaking with his mom. She mentions she asked him in the week if we were still going out and that everything regarding plans was OK. He told her he didn't know what was happening. I am confused, we have had plans for weeks! I say it is all good and we are still going out.

Late in the afternoon of the day we are due to go out, we go to take the kids to his mom's house. We go in and sit and chat for a bit. Time passes and I say three or four times we need to get going to get ready. He says yeah then keeps asking mom if she needs a hand with bathing the youngest. She keeps saying no it's fine then 5 minutes later he will ask again. This keeps happening untill it is around 7:45 and I am itching to go get ready and we eventually leave.

We go back home and he asks how I am feeling, I say I am tired, he says what do you want to do? I say drown our sorrows with a few beers. He says he is not bothered about going out.

I could see it coming (no really?) Am disappointed. He says why don't I go out still any way but I say part of the reason I was looking forward to it was because we were going out together. 

So we stay in together like a normal Saturday night except with no kids.

Bit hurt and he says he feels guilty.

Last night he asks if I mind him going out for Christmas drinks tonight. I say no. Later I am thinking and realize... Damn. Friday night he is out with his friend for beers. Saturday night he is supposed to be out with me but bails. Sunday he goes out for beers with his friend. Then wants to go out tonight for beers with his friend. Spot the glaring omission of when he wants to go out...

To top it all off we were talking about his friend earlier and he said had his friend gone out on Saturday, *he* would have gone out too. Said the people going out were really *my* friends (not true, some were but many were mutual friends, but his two best friends, one his regular drinking buddy, were not out that night.)

So I feel pretty trashy about myself now. He claims he *is* happy to take me out and lists ideas, one of which he absolutely *hates* but I like and getting him to do it is like pulling teeth and he knows it! Thing is he never actually does take me out like he says.

So how do I feel better about this? Also what do I say to him?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You say, "Really? I'd love to do that tonight!" and make the plans for it.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> You say, "Really? I'd love to do that tonight!" and make the plans for it.


Ah I hear ya 

Trouble is in my mind that is calling his bluff. My feeling is that if he were really motivated to want to spend that time with me then he would make it happen.

My take was that those words saying he would like to take me out were pretty empty because fact is, he could have. The circumstances were perfect and do not happen often in being able to get a sitter. He knows that. To me they were compensatory words made to make him sound better, with no actual substance.

The last thing I want, like on Saturday, is to be out with him and know he doesn't really want to be there.

Plus it is looking like he only wants to go out with his friends.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

call his bluff and next time go through with going out and see how it goes.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Wow.

Well we talked about stuff earlier. We seemed to come to some sort of peace. I asked if he could understand why I felt upset about this. He told me it was not anything to do with me at all and talked through a couple reasons explaining why which made sense. One was the difficulty with finding a trusted sitter and another to do with a condition he has which I will not go in to here but makes it difficult to leave the house sometimes.

So I expressed some pretty deep feelings over my troubled esteem and difficulty trusting how he feels about me. It was pretty raw stuff and I felt very vulnerable but he listened and seemed to get it.

Half an hour later he was asking if I was OK with him going out tonight... Not even joking, he will have been out Friday, not Saturday with me, Sunday, Monday, yesterday not but then tonight.

I can tell you I feel pretty darn special right now. Not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

:scratchhead: Um. Are you sure he is going out with who he says he is ? This is really starting to sound strange.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Yeah he does. It all lines up plus it is way easy for me to check out if needed to. I am sure he is where he says, just that he does not want to do the same with me.

He is now saying he was kidding about going out later. Confusing much?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

I've had issues with this with both my ex and my H. He has no interest in going out to bars...until it's his friends going. Then suddenly he's interested.

If I go he acts all weird and uncomfortable, and it's as if I don't exist. I can barely get him to acknowledge me, almost like he's embarrassed to be with me (I'm attractive and not overweight, fyi). 

This is one of those things men like this insist is 'not a big deal' even though you are right there in their face telling them it makes you feel like dirt.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

It sounds to me like your H is behaving like a single man. How would he like it if you went on 3 GNOs in a space of 5 days? He's not playing fair, OP.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> Yeah he does. It all lines up plus it is way easy for me to check out if needed to. I am sure he is where he says, just that he does not want to do the same with me.
> 
> He is now saying he was kidding about going out later. Confusing much?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Next time he does what he did in your OP leave him at home and go out without him or leave him at his moms with the kids and go out without him. I am sure once or twice doing that, he will stop and actually go out with you.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

To be fair, his evenings out for a beer are not wild nights in the city. He goes to a local bar with his drinking buddy and there will be various other people he knows who are our parents' age. Some couples so it isn't a boys' night out.

An interesting sidenote... Last year I accompanied him on one of these evenings. We got to his regular bar and had a couple beers. A few days later he told me that one of the bartenders had been asking H's friend who was that with H? Friend said I was H's wife and apparently they were really surprised because they didn't know I existed! I mean H and his group regularly chat to the guys that work there and some socialize with them and I found it hurtfull that H just does not put me out there in conversation.

H is allways encouraging me to go out if I want and the night I wrote about, he did say for me to go out by myself to meet our friends. The point was that we were meant to be going TOGETHER. Date nights are hard to come by, thus organizing it a month in advance.

If I started going out by myself? I really do not think he would suddenly start making an effort to go out with me. I just don't.

He also made a huge point about basically how easy it is to go out for drinks locally, how difficult it is to go out on a date night with arranging a sitter. He asks me why *I* do not arrange stuff and I say because he stopped showing any enthusiasm for a date night and I could not deal with feeling I was "forcing" him into it. Despite this he says he *loves* spending time with me?

I should also say that we do have once a week maybe three hours where family have the kids, in the daytime, at the weekend. His feeling is that I should just be happy with that,then he goes on to complain how difficult it is, we have to rush around on that day, he feels so stressed afterwards with driving about to pick the kids up ( family live a half hour away) that often after he wonders what we are doing.

My feeling is that I need to deal with what I have in front of me. Appreciate the time we *do* have and stop wishing for more. A "bait and switch" of sorts I have said. I *know* life changes from when dating to being married and having kids. But I am made to feel greedy if I want couple time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

In that case, OP, you just need to talk to him and let him know that you need the occasional date night with him.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Cosmos, he knows this as I made sure to articulate it. I have also said it does not have to be going out for drinks like he does with his friends and staying out for hours. We could go see a movie. Go out for dinner. Go see a favorite comedian when they tour. Stuff like that.

I am just gonna start doing stuff like this on my own or with a friend. If he decides he wants to join then all the better. I am not going to nag, moan or make him feel pressured. For sure though the moment I stop reminding him he will think I am not bothered anymore. Cannot win either way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

I would just start going out without him. Have you ever gone out on your own, and left him with the kids? And has he always gone out without you, or did it start after marriage/kids/etc?

I would be really annoyed if my SO did what your husband does. You have tried talking to him about how much this hurts you, and even telling him straight out that you need a date night occasionally...and he still doesn't listen?

I also find it very strange that the people he hangs out with 2-3x/week didn't even know about you. It sounds to me like he is behaving like a single guy, which I feel is wrong in a marriage, especially one with kids. 

I don't begrudge the occasional outing alone with coworkers/friends/family, but the fact that he goes out with his friends more than he does with you (and it bothers you), is a big problem, IMO.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

galian84 said:


> I would just start going out without him. Have you ever gone out on your own, and left him with the kids? And has he always gone out without you, or did it start after marriage/kids/etc?
> 
> I would be really annoyed if my SO did what your husband does. You have tried talking to him about how much this hurts you, and even telling him straight out that you need a date night occasionally...and he still doesn't listen?
> 
> ...


I do not really go out much. I do get out once a week with the older two children in the evening, we go do sports which we all enjoy. But I do not socialize that much. We used to when dating. For me it slowed down when the kids came along. Mainly because I was/am tired come evening time. Plus I feel guilty leaving him to deal with three kids on his own.

He does encourage me to go out. So I could do if I so wanted. But it is him I would love to be coming out with me. I think he is trying to get me being more sociable so it takes the focus off him. I do think it would be quite enriching. But I would not forget that he still would not be making the effort for me

However he has broached the subject of us maybe going to see a movie this Saturday night. This is pending asking a sitter at short notice but it is nice to see him making an effort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I would be inviting myself along. Or just show up later while he is out. Really there is no excuse not to. After he leaves, call a sitter or mom or whatever. Get rid of the kids and show up. Don't let him think that he can go and leave you at home whenever he wants.

The other thing I would do is stop saying it's ok when he asks if he can go out for beers. At least half the time you should be saying no, you need to stay home with the kids because I have plans to go have a drink myself. And then go do it. Call up a girlfriend last minute and go buy her a drink.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

How does he have a condition that prevents him from leaving the house with you, but not to go out and get beer with his friends? 
That seems slightly suspect to me, that this serious condition only seems to be a problem sometimes and not others. 

I know you don't want to get into it, but - I'd question that.

Also - his drinking buddies not knowing he is married would also be a red flag - what reason does he have to not mention that he is married? Does he not wear a ring? Was it that they didn't know he is married or that they didn't know your name? In either case - why is that?

Sounds to me like he just can't be bothered as spending time with anyone but you is easier. Churches and the YMCA organize babysitting for couples night out once a month or so, it might be time to look into something other than just strictly family watching the youngsters for an evening. 

I wouldn't let this go, you'll just slip further and further apart the less "we" time you have.


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## kate542 (Jul 25, 2012)

I would be extremely suspicious and would take steps to find out what is going on.
Let him go off as usual with his friends but before hand arrange for someone to sit with the kids without him knowing after he's left 
Give it a good half hour then take yourself off to the place he is meeting his friends. then say you fancied going out with the gang and managed to get a sitter and see what he says and see also who is there.
If you don't get things sorted out when you are young when you are old it's too late.
Don't put up with crap life is too short.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

To be clear, his drinking buddies know all about me. It was the fact that the bartender did not know anything about me even existing. The group know this guy to chat to and some have even been on a vacation with him. A while ago H told me this guy was showing him pictures of his grown up daughter and asking him what he thought. I remember at the time thinking it was a bit odd that the guy did not ask anyone else except H, and in retrospect it appears as though the guy probably thought H was single whereas his good drinking buddy has his wife out with him sometimes.

I really do not think he is up to anything untoward. It really is more that he will make the effort to go out on his own but not with me. To hear how much of a hassle it is for him to think about arranging a sitter and to see how he does not bother is incredibly hurtful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

walkingwounded said:


> To be clear, his drinking buddies know all about me. It was the fact that the bartender did not know anything about me even existing. The group know this guy to chat to and some have even been on a vacation with him. A while ago H told me this guy was showing him pictures of his grown up daughter and asking him what he thought. I remember at the time thinking it was a bit odd that the guy did not ask anyone else except H, and in retrospect it appears as though the guy probably thought H was single whereas his good drinking buddy has his wife out with him sometimes.
> 
> I really do not think he is up to anything untoward. It really is more that he will make the effort to go out on his own but not with me. To hear how much of a hassle it is for him to think about arranging a sitter and to see how he does not bother is incredibly hurtful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Going out drinking 3 times a week is excessive even if he goes with you one night, with friends the next and a different group of friends the third. What are you going to do about it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ruiemichelo (Dec 28, 2012)

He told me it was not anything to do with me at all and talked through a couple reasons explaining why which made sense.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Most men, throughout human history, and still in many parts of the world, socially primarily with other men. It's a relatively modern, western concept that you should want to mix your male bonding time with the wife. Some men have adapted well to this, but many still don't like to mix the marriage with guy/friend time.

My wife and I have totally separate social circles. Couple time, date nights, etc, are for us, not our friends. We mingle socially together only on rare occasions. This was not done on purpose, but it still works very well for us in the end. 

Perhaps it's best that you concentrate on enjoying singular, dedicated couple time instead of being upset about his need for friend bonding. If he's spending way too much time out, vs with you, deal with that. But if this is about you not getting, or accepting, that your husband likes his bonding time with friends, you might want to try and understand him better.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> An interesting sidenote... Last year I accompanied him on one of these evenings. We got to his regular bar and had a couple beers. A few days later he told me that one of the bartenders had been asking H's friend who was that with H? Friend said I was H's wife and apparently they were really surprised because they didn't know I existed! I mean H and his group regularly chat to the guys that work there and some socialize with them and I found it hurtfull that H just does not put me out there in conversation.
> 
> H is allways encouraging me to go out if I want and the night I wrote about, he did say for me to go out by myself to meet our friends. The point was that we were meant to be going TOGETHER. Date nights are hard to come by, thus organizing it a month in advance.
> 
> ...



He doesn't mention you when out? That's a huge problem.

It sounds like your husband is using his nights out as a means to escape the whole married with kids burden. He's enjoying his separate social life.

Time to start asking him some tough questions about what he really feels about his life, being a dad, and a husband.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Most men, throughout human history, and still in many parts of the world, socially primarily with other men. It's a relatively modern, western concept that you should want to mix your male bonding time with the wife. Some men have adapted well to this, but many still don't like to mix the marriage with guy/friend time.
> 
> My wife and I have totally separate social circles. Couple time, date nights, etc, are for us, not our friends. We mingle socially together only on rare occasions. This was not done on purpose, but it still works very well for us in the end.
> 
> Perhaps it's best that you concentrate on enjoying singular, dedicated couple time instead of being upset about his need for friend bonding. If he's spending way too much time out, vs with you, deal with that. But if this is about you not getting, or accepting, that your husband likes his bonding time with friends, you might want to try and understand him better.


Thanks for the feedback jaquen. To clarify, I actually do not have a problem with him socializing with friends. It is not that which bothers me. It is that he makes an effort to socialize with them but rarely does so with me. I do feel envious when I see him going through his getting ready routine, showering, smelling nice, looking good. I watch, thinking why aren't I deserving of that effort? Even of an evening in, he says he is tired and sits around in his work clothes. *Every* time though it is time for him to go out, he is suddenly full of energy and ready to go! Even the evening we had arranged to go out together but did not make it, he said one of the many reasons he did not want to go was that he was feeling a little ill. Yet the next day, when he was still feeling ill, he could manage to make the effort to get ready and go out?

What I hear is that the effort required is too much effort, that is finding and arranging a sitter in advance. That sounds to me like *I* am too much effort. I keep saying that if we do not get time together, then in x number of years the kids will be grown up, will be leaving home and we won't have anything to talk about.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> Thanks for the feedback jaquen. To clarify, I actually do not have a problem with him socializing with friends. It is not that which bothers me. It is that he makes an effort to socialize with them but rarely does so with me. I do feel envious when I see him going through his getting ready routine, showering, smelling nice, looking good. I watch, thinking why aren't I deserving of that effort? Even of an evening in, he says he is tired and sits around in his work clothes. *Every* time though it is time for him to go out, he is suddenly full of energy and ready to go! Even the evening we had arranged to go out together but did not make it, he said one of the many reasons he did not want to go was that he was feeling a little ill. Yet the next day, when he was still feeling ill, he could manage to make the effort to get ready and go out?
> 
> What I hear is that the effort required is too much effort, that is finding and arranging a sitter in advance. That sounds to me like *I* am too much effort. I keep saying that if we do not get time together, then in x number of years the kids will be grown up, will be leaving home and we won't have anything to talk about.


Yep, if you're sure he's not having an affair, it sounds like the old "marriage = responsibility" routine. He doesn't see your marriage, or you, as "fun" anymore. He's created an entire social life without you, and he enjoys the freedom, and fun, that comes along with it.

Is this a new issue, or has it always been this way?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Gotta say, Wounded, I'm a woman and I'M CONFUSED by your position...I can only imagine how confused your H is.

You say you don't care that he goes out with his friends, but you b1tch about how many times he's gone out in the last 5-6 nights.

You say he encourages YOU to go out, but you have a million and one excuses NOT to.

You don't want to "burden" him with three children? WTH? How is THIS a burden...he's their FATHER! He's not 'babysitting' them, he's RAISING them!

He's enthusiastic about going out with his friends FREQUENTLY.
He gets all dressed up to go out with his friends.
He suddenly finds energy to go out with friends when he's home exhausted.
People (bartenders) he's known for YEARS have NO IDEA he's married and are trying to set him up with their daughters.
Bartenders meet YOU and want to know who the h3ll you are!

YOUR H is living the SINGLE LIFE!
He is BORED with being a husband.
He is BORED with being a father.
He is BORED with being responsible.
Of course he doesn't care if you go out by yourself sometimes, as long as YOU don't impinge on his SINGLE TIMES with his buds! YOU can go out alone w/your gf's AS LONG AS YOU DON'T try to go out in public at night with him.
This sounds like a guy who is interested in being perceived as SINGLE in your community.

You need to sit him down and have a SERIOUS discussion about his behavior.
If he is interested in BEING MARRIED to you, then he better START acting like it!
If he is interested in BEING SINGLE, then he better CLUE YOU IN!

...and don't think you're without FAULT in this mess. You give off TOTALLY CONTRADICTORY messages (at least from what *I've* read). When anyone (except YOU) criticizes his behavior, you're awfully quick to defend him and make excuses!

FIGURE OUT WHAT *YOU* WANT. Talk to H about it. Tell him SOMETHING needs to change (including the behavior of BOTH of you). Get some MC if necessary to learn to turn this around.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Most men, throughout human history, and still in many parts of the world, socially primarily with other men.


Uh, just to point out - this is generally due to religious rules or because of military duty where they were supposed to feel closer to their brothers-in-arms than their wives. Some of these cultures encouraged man-boy homosexuality to accomplish those goals. Throughout a lot of history, wives were seen as too fragile or delicate to handle "real" conversations, however prostitutes could handle them just fine. 

None of these things are acceptable and in some cases legal in modern Western society today, nor haven't been for quite some time. 

The issue, as OP has explained it, isn't her husband wanting male bonding time, its that he has little to no interest at all in spending time with her as a couple -nor- socially with others.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> Uh, just to point out - this is generally due to religious rules or because of military duty where they were supposed to feel closer to their brothers-in-arms than their wives. Some of these cultures encouraged man-boy homosexuality to accomplish those goals. Throughout a lot of history, wives were seen as too fragile or delicate to handle "real" conversations, however prostitutes could handle them just fine.
> 
> None of these things are acceptable and in some cases legal in modern Western society today, nor haven't been for quite some time.


Umm, no. This isn't the case whatsoever. Even in societies where men and women are buck naked nude, are grouped in small tribes, and live communally in close proximity, the men tend to socialize with the men, and women with women.

It is a relatively new social phenomenon in the history of human socialization that men are expected to spend their time primarily with women, namely one woman, their wife. It is completely against the grain of past western expectations, and present expectations on many non-western societies. 

We are in new, and not necessarily better, territory. Human beings have never been expected to lean on their spouses as their primary outlet for social connection before the last hundred or so years in the West.



Starstarfish said:


> The issue, as OP has explained it, isn't her husband wanting male bonding time, its that he has little to no interest at all in spending time with her as a couple -nor- socially with others.


Yes I am well aware of the issue, which I addressed in two later posts after the one you quoted.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Does your husband wear his wedding ring? It sounds like he is done with a partnership marriage and as long as you keeps the home fires burning and keep status quo and don't b!tch him out too much, he'll put up with occasional complaints, but he's done and doesn't want to be the bad guy in saying it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

golfergirl said:


> Does your husband wear his wedding ring? It sounds like he is done with a partnership marriage and as long as you keeps the home fires burning and keep status quo and don't b!tch him out too much, he'll put up with occasional complaints, but he's done and doesn't want to be the bad guy in saying it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I read your post just now and had to reply.

We arranged a sitter last night. H took me out to the bar where he usually goes. We walked into the bar area and it was pretty busy: and everyone in there were men. Went to the bar to get drinks and when we were waiting, I could see a few guys looking over at me. H must have noticed as well because he looked down and said, ah, I thought you weren't wearing your wedding ring then!

I was, and it made me smile a little.

We were joined by a couple of H's friends, older guys our parents' age. One who is a good friend of H, said it was nice to see me out and how they always tell him that he keeps me too hidden away...!

Had a lovely time, only wish we could do it more often.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

walkingwounded said:


> I read your post just now and had to reply.
> 
> We arranged a sitter last night. H took me out to the bar where he usually goes. We walked into the bar area and it was pretty busy: and everyone in there were men. Went to the bar to get drinks and when we were waiting, I could see a few guys looking over at me. H must have noticed as well because he looked down and said, ah, I thought you weren't wearing your wedding ring then!
> 
> ...


That is only one small part of the problem. It's like your arm is severed and you have a cut on the finger and you stitch the finger. Doesn't help the big picture. You husband is not engaged in you or the kids. What most men cherish in a family (time with kids, then alone time with wife) is something he suffers through to keep you quiet for awhile. He finds family time something to suffer through so he can go out for the fun stuff. It doesn't matter if he's cheating or not - he looks for any excuse to not be involved. The issue isn't him hanging with friends 3-4 nights a week. It's not him being lazy and sleeping in. It's not him staying up late to 'pursue' hobbies. He is showing he does not want to be there
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> That is only one small part of the problem. It's like your arm is severed and you have a cut on the finger and you stitch the finger. Doesn't help the big picture. You husband is not engaged in you or the kids. What most men cherish in a family (time with kids, then alone time with wife) is something he suffers through to keep you quiet for awhile. He finds family time something to suffer through so he can go out for the fun stuff. It doesn't matter if he's cheating or not - he looks for any excuse to not be involved. The issue isn't him hanging with friends 3-4 nights a week. It's not him being lazy and sleeping in. It's not him staying up late to 'pursue' hobbies. He is showing he does not want to be there
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Has he always been this way? Was this a shotgun marriage? Was preschooler a surprise pregnancy? Almost reminds me of Nicholas Cage movie, The Family Man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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