# I told him everything. Please can someone help I need it more than ever



## Un_Amor_Perdido

I posted before and now I need more help then ever 

Last night was crazy and I don’t know what to do or what’s going to happen now.

I asked my parents if they could pick up the twins from school. So my husband and I could be alone. I was scared I wasn’t going to be able to tell him everything and I thought it would be easier if I wrote him a letter telling everything that happened between me and my AP. I put everything in the letter and I tried to remember everything from that night. I know it might have been the cowardly way out but I didn’t know if I was going to able to verbally. Writing him a letter seemed like the best way to do it.

Hubby came home around 5. The house was empty since the twins were with my parents. I sat him down in the living room and asked if we could talk. We sat there for a few minutes saying nothing. I showed him the letter I wrote before I handed him the letter. Before he even stared reading I began crying and begging him for another chance. He didn’t know why I was crying and asked what happened but I couldn’t stop crying to answer his question and I asked him to read the letter. As he stared to read the letter I could tell when he started reading about what I done by his facial expression. When he was done reading the letter he just looked at me with sad eyes. A face of completely sadness, hurt and disappointment I never saw him like that. He stayed like for a few minutes then I stared asking him to say something anything but he said nothing. He went to set on the couch we stayed there for about an hour and then he got up and went into his little man cave room. I tried to follow him but he locked himself in his room. He didn’t leave the room until today so he could go to work. At least that’s where I think he went. I tried calling cell and his office but he didn’t answer. Sent emails and texts no answer I haven’t been able to him all day or even get a hold of him. I don’t even know if he’s coming home day since it’s already almost 7 and he isn’t home yet. 

I really need help now. I can’t stop crying and shacking I really don’t know what to do. I keep trying to find ways for him to contact him so I can talk to him. I would do anything he wants if it means saving our marriage. I love him so much and I don’t want to lose him and I want to help him any way I can but I don’t know how. I never wanted to hurt him I always tried to be the best wife for him and to make him happy. I don’t what to say of how to fix everything I have done. I destroyed everything I ever wanted. Some please help me.


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## Lift326

Give him a minute ... You kicked his soul out..... Nothing hurts more than opening up to a woman ..... Besides death usually you ladies are the only thing we open ourselves up to feel with.

When a man marries a woman a lot of time that woman has touched his emotional being. Even if he has slept with 100 women only his chosen wife can hurt him.

That's a pain I hope I never feel.

As a hubby you ladies are angels to us and for your figurine angel to fall and allow another man to soil her is unthinkable to most men.

Right now he is questioning every decision he has ever made regarding you.....

I pray for you and if you had posted on here that it was a one time thing that would not happen again, I would have said do not tell him and take it to the grave if a child or std was not involved.


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## PhillyGuy13

You did the right thing and I know it was difficult to do- I am glad you came clean with him. 

He is in shock right now. Give him time. It is not something that will fix itself in 24 hours. What the future holds we cannot say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13

Lift326- No - it was at a party, others were around. The secret would have come out one way or the other. MUCH better he heard it from her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

First, you did the right thing by telling him. I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice but I think you should leave him alone and let him process it. If anything leave him a note saying that you'll let him be and when he's ready to talk you'll be ready, and it'll be on his terms. He's in shock right now and you blowing up his phone is not for him, it's for you. This must be about him. Eventually he will be ready to talk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2

This might help.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/70821-things-wayward-spouses-do-wrong.html


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## Chris989

Stay strong. He needs you now more than ever. Whatever he says, keep telling him you want him. 

He will come back. When he does be prepared. You might lose him but you have given the best chance of building a future.


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## joe kidd

It's going to get worse before it gets better. You want him to stay? Be ready for a rough ride. 
I hope you are strong enough to take it.


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## verpin zal

I certainly hope you didn't refer to your AP as a "friend" in your letter, like you kept on doing in your previous thread.


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## manticore

Hi UAP, please understand that your husband need sometime to assimilate what you just tell him if pressure him o chase him the effect could be negative, his reaction is not uncommon many BS have reacted just like him.

there are many opions of what to do inmediatly after the confession, what I have seen in many forums is that remorseful WW, call the imediate family (his parents, your parents) and explain the situation, they also apologize to the parents of the BS and ask for their support to mantain the family together assuring the the love you have for their son (yes not an easy task).

However, your user name tell me that you may be citizen of a latin country where the tolerace to indifelity is lower when it comes to women, if that is your case maybe letting your husband to take the decission to inform or not inform his partents is not a bad idea (in case he wants reconcilation). 

In the end is your choice if you want to inform all family right now and apologize for your bahaviour and also request for their support.

also please read this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

specially post number 3

*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.*

this is a little guide that will help you to understand the emotinally state that your husband is experimenting right now, and also gives you perpective of what you may have to do if he decides to reconcile.

also, next time you talk with your husband let him know clearly that you alredy cut any kind of communication with OM, that you have not contacted him since the encounter and that you want nothing to do with him.

that your loyalty is 100% with him and you support any decission he takes regarding OM (if he has a GF expose him or if he wants to review your old messages allow him)

offer him to send a NC letter to OM and offer him the 100% transparency policy

- acces to your phone to check your messages and calls
- acces to social media communications (FB, skype, tweeter).
- GPS in your car if necessary to confirm where you are.

he have to see that you already thought of all the possible ways to regain his trust.

offer him MC.

be prepared for the name calling, after the depression of the betrayal will come the rage, this does not mean he hates you, it means that he is hurt and is his way to confront that pain, remember that he would not feel pain or rage if you were not important to him.

also, give you time to visit this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html

in this thread hang out a lot of couples in process of reconcilation taht may help you to obtain useful advices.

good luck.


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## Pinkpetal

Maybe you didn't want to hurt your husband, but the fact is you have. An incredible hurt that has changed his world. As others have stated, right now he needs time to process his thoughts and feelings. I know you're frightened by his silence but really the best thing you can do right now is give him space. 

I applaud your honesty in telling him the truth, but now it's out of your hands. Hubby will come to you when he's ready.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

verpin zal said:


> I certainly hope you didn't refer to your AP as a "friend" in your letter, like you kept on doing in your previous thread.


I used his full name in the letter. My husband met him once so he knew who he was


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## 6301

Try putting yourself in his shoes and he was the one who handed you a letter stating that he cheated on you with another woman. You would be doing the same thing. 

He's hurting and the kind of hurt he's going through is worse than any kind of physical pain. Sooner or later he's going to come home and when he does, be prepared for a ton of questions and if your smart, you'll answer them with complete honesty. 

He's going to need a lot of space and smothering him will make it worse. In his eyes he's seeing a woman that he doesn't know. Right now your a complete stranger to him and by pushing yourself on him might make him even more angry.

He needs time because it's the only way he can figure out what he wants and whatever he decides to do, then you'll have to accept it. You own the affair and you can't undo what has already happened.


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## verpin zal

He'll ask you questions.

If you want your husband to remain as your husband, answer them.

Whatever the question is.

Those questions might make you angry. Might break your heart. Might disgust you.

Might as well.

Don't forget to answer them.


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## Philat

verpin zal said:


> He'll ask you questions.
> 
> If you want your husband to remain as your husband, answer them.
> 
> Whatever the question is.
> 
> Those questions might make you angry. Might break your heart. Might disgust you.
> 
> Might as well.
> 
> Don't forget to answer them.


:iagree: This is your best policy. Do not think about "sparing" him by dodging his questions or lying. That will only prolong the agony.


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## MattMatt

Invite him here.

You did the right thing. Because, eventually, he would have found out from someone else.


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## xakulax

OP give him time right now his world is crashing down around him and he will need time assimilate this you need to be prepared he may come with a lot of question about what happen don't be surprise if he does be completely transparent with passwords, social media and location you are going give him your complete itinerary leave nothing out.. 


You did the right thing telling him the truth I know it hurts yes but this will give you the best foundation to repair the marriage


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

I know I need to give him space and me continuing blow up his phone isn’t help that cause but the not knowing is killing. I don’t know where he is or if he’s ok. I just need to know something anything at this point. I can’t sleep not knowing if he’s ok or not. I tried calling his parents, brother, sisters and even some of his friend and none of them know anything about where he could be. I know I hurt him the worst way possible and I will never be able to understand just how badly he’s hurting.


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## Thorburn

From my old friend Beowulf's post in 2012:

Understanding the pain
I know this post is not going to sit well with most WS here but in my opinion there seems to be a lot of difficulty understanding the pain the BS goes through after an affair is discovered. I know the WS is dealing with a lot of intense emotions such as guilt, shame, remorse, regret. But there seems to be a definite disconnect that I thought I'd address. While I am not the most intelligent or articulate person here on TAM I thought I’d try to describe the way my wife and I have come to understand the difference and how we related it to each other.

A person who has an affair does indeed have to deal with a lot of pain in the aftermath. They have to reevaluate their own identity and who they really are and their willingness to cause so much suffering to their loved ones. The statements “it’s just not in me to cheat” and “I could never do that” are in direct conflict with their actions. They have to come to the painful conclusion that they indeed are not the absolute good person they thought they were. They have to realize that there was something in them that allowed them to be selfish and cruel to the person or people they most cherished. And the scariest part is that they have to realize that since they’ve done it once they can do it again. Those self examinations are extremely difficult but necessary if the WS wants to become the person they always thought they already were and hope to actually become.

Here is where it gets hard for as much difficulty the WS has to go through they truly cannot comprehend the pain and anguish the BS has to endure. I want you to understand and remember two words. These are two very important words and it will help you to understand what your spouse is probably feeling even if they can’t express it. When they discovered your affair…YOU DIED! Let me say it again…YOU DIED! The person that your husband/wife married is gone forever. Think about a time when you lost someone really close to you. A father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter, or spouse. Think of the grief that you had to deal with. That is the same grief that your spouse has to deal with each and every day. Every day that they wake up after D-Day you die again and they feel it again and it's just as intense. The feelings of loneliness, hopelessness, yes…anger (why did you leave me?) Can you even imagine the pain that he/she is going through? Probably not. Because you are the one that had died and they are the one that is left to pick up the pieces of a shattered life that was taken from. They are the ones that are left to deal with the loss of a loved one.

But here is the sick part. You are still here; but you aren’t! You are a doppelganger, a clone, an evil twin. You are the one that killed your spouse’s cherished love. You took the love of his/her life away forever violently and without mercy. You stabbed them, mutilated them, burned them and ultimately buried them. You are the monster that has torn up a family. You are the monster that has committed such a senseless heinous act. You are a murderer! And here's the part that most WS miss. You were aware of your actions. You stalked your husband/wife's spouse. You planned how to do it. You conspired with another murderer (the OM/OW) and you finally struck without warning and without honor. The BS was left in shock and dismay watching their cherished lover, friend, partner, confidant bleed to death in the street. They felt hopeless and helpless as the person they loved most in the world was taken from them. Their world...you...died that day.

And you want the grieving person to forgive you. Love you. Stay with you. Think about that for a minute. You, the pod person, the evil clone, the look alike murderer that destroyed the one person in life that your spouse cherished beyond all time and space want the sorrow filled, grief stricken, angry and injured beyond belief person to LOVE YOU? They had this involuntarily inflicted upon them. They had no choice. Only pain. And now you want them to choose to love you. Can you imagine going up to the person that murdered your loved one and choosing to love them?

Now you have a little glimpse into the psyche of your betrayed spouse. You also know why I always tell people that the old marriage is dead and the couple must learn to love each other as new…if they can. It is also why I recommend the betrayed spouse read “Just Let Them Go” even if they want to reconcile. Because you truly have to let the cheating spouse go in order to learn to hopefully love the new version of your husband/wife. It’s hard and it’s painful and it can only be done if the WS does everything to make the BS fall in love with them again.


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## xakulax

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I know I need to give him space and me continuing blow up his phone isn’t help that cause but the not knowing is killing. I don’t know where he is or if he’s ok. I just need to know something anything at this point. I can’t sleep not knowing if he’s ok or not. I tried calling his parents, brother, sisters and even some of his friend and none of them know anything about where he could be. I know I hurt him the worst way possible and I will never be able to understand just how badly he’s hurting.



All you can do now is prepare yourself for the challenges that are coming next he will come back he my be angry,sad or ambivalent you need to be ready for this...


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## Thorburn

PLEASE READ THIS AND UNDERSTAND IT:

I have thought about posting this for some time now. It is not original to me, and chances are that many here have already seen this. It is from another forum (that can be found by searching on the title of this thread). If you go to that forum/thread, the person posting this says that they do not know its origin - but deep within the tread the original author/poster who put this together comes forth and says that they have no problem with it being distributed. I presume that to be true.

This is for the wayward spouse (particularly in the early stages of trying to understand) - and perhaps would be something useful for any betrayed spouse to share with their wayward spouse...

The only reason i am posting this here is in hopes that it might help others the way it did my wife and I.

*****

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand. YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.

Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

verpin zal said:


> He'll ask you questions.
> 
> If you want your husband to remain as your husband, answer them.
> 
> Whatever the question is.
> 
> Those questions might make you angry. Might break your heart. Might disgust you.
> 
> Might as well.
> 
> Don't forget to answer them.


In the letter I told him I would answer any and all question he had. I won’t lie to him anymore any question he will get the truth regardless how it makes me. The last thing I want to do is make things worse between us.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

joe kidd said:


> It's going to get worse before it gets better. You want him to stay? Be ready for a rough ride.
> I hope you are strong enough to take it.


I don’t care how long or how hard it gets I don’t want to be without him. I will spend the rest of my live making up to him if he gives me the chance too.


----------



## WyshIknew

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I don’t care how long or how hard it gets I don’t want to be without him. I will spend the rest of my live making up to him if he gives me the chance too.


UAP.

I may have missed it but I think you haven't indicated the marital status of OM.

Is he married, single, engaged, LTR?

What if hubby wants to get revenge on OM?

Punches him out, police get involved?

Wants to post OM on Cheaterville?

Exposes the affair to his SO?

What if he says he would like a revenge affair?

What if he just says he's done? Are you going to take him to the cleaners?


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## nuclearnightmare

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I know I need to give him space and me continuing blow up his phone isn’t help that cause but the not knowing is killing. I don’t know where he is or if he’s ok. I just need to know something anything at this point. I can’t sleep not knowing if he’s ok or not. I tried calling his parents, brother, sisters and even some of his friend and none of them know anything about where he could be. I know I hurt him the worst way possible and I will never be able to understand just how badly he’s hurting.


I think the reason you can't sleep is that you don't know whether YOU are ok/will be ok, or not. You're concerned you'll lose him, be alone etc. Isn't that really what concerns you? Your main concern is you, which may have contributed to why you did what you did.


----------



## MattMatt

nuclearnightmare said:


> I think the reason you can't sleep is that you don't know whether YOU are ok/will be ok, or not. You're concerned you'll lose him, be alone etc. Isn't that really what concerns you? Your main concern is you, which may have contributed to why you did what you did.


*Probably not.* When I confessed my stupid revenge affair to my wife, believe it or believe it not, my main concern was how badly I was hurting her.


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## xakulax

Since the OP hasn't responded I guess her husband might have come home. hopefully they can talk and start the long process trowed reconciliation


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## adv

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I know I need to give him space and me continuing blow up his phone isn’t help that cause but the not knowing is killing. I don’t know where he is or if he’s ok. I just need to know something anything at this point. I can’t sleep not knowing if he’s ok or not. I tried calling his parents, brother, sisters and even some of his friend and none of them know anything about where he could be. I know I hurt him the worst way possible and I will never be able to understand just how badly he’s hurting.


My advice is to stop. Stop calling his friends, stop calling his parents, stop calling his siblings, stop calling him. You don't even know if he wanted them to know yet but in your fear and desperation, now he can't even try to process what you've done without others trying to help when all he might want is some time to himself.


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## turnera

Let us know.


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## sidney2718

nuclearnightmare said:


> I think the reason you can't sleep is that you don't know whether YOU are ok/will be ok, or not. You're concerned you'll lose him, be alone etc. Isn't that really what concerns you? Your main concern is you, which may have contributed to why you did what you did.


I have a different view. The pain is something like what her husband is going through. He's vanished. She doesn't know if he's gone off to a motel somewhere to be alone or if he's in a bar getting totally wasted, or is about to attempt to drive his car up a tree.

By this time everyone, family, friends, etc., is also worried about him. So sure, she can't sleep. Nobody is sleeping.

Here's what she said:


> Originally Posted by Un_Amor_Perdido
> I know I need to give him space and me continuing blow up his phone isn’t help that cause but the not knowing is killing. I don’t know where he is or if he’s ok. I just need to know something anything at this point. I can’t sleep not knowing if he’s ok or not. I tried calling his parents, brother, sisters and even some of his friend and none of them know anything about where he could be. I know I hurt him the worst way possible and I will never be able to understand just how badly he’s hurting.


----------



## jim123

Let everyone know there is a serious issue and you are not just checking up. 

You need to be proactive.

1) Get an appointment with an IC for you. Let him know.

2) Get a name of an MC and let him know you will make an appointment if he would like.

3) Prepare a no contact letter for the OM and give it to you BS for review.

4) Any friends who know OM must go too.

5) You may need to switch schools. Start researching.

6) Do as much research on affairs, how to prevent affairs and how to help you spouse recover that you can.

7) Show you are committed to him and you choose him


----------



## nickgtg

The advice I gave you before still applies. You tell him and you might save your marriage. He finds out on his own he's probably gone.

You think it was hard telling him, well that's nothing compared to the pain he's in right now.

I personally wouldn't take you back, but obviously I'm not him. I hate hearing " I love him so much and I care about him."
Where were those feelings when you cheated?

You sound very sorry about everything, which is something most don't in your position.

I genuinely hope you're sincere and give your husband whatever he needs to get through your betrayal.

I know nobody is perfect, but some sins are harder to get over than others.

Good luck.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


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## OptimisticPessimist

Un_Amor_Perdido,

Im sure it sucks for you right now, but letting him know was the right thing to do. All you can do is wait and be there the second he wishes to speak with you. Show unswerving dedication in every way to ANY possibility that you two might have at moving forward together.

Either way, you need to figure out WHY you cheated, and dont blame him for it. You need to evaluate the boundaries you have with others (especially men), and you need to make them more stringent.

Any pain you feel right now is a mere shadow of what he feels; you have crushed his trust, pride, and his heart all in one move. He needs time at the very least, and you must be willing to accept whatever choice he makes... even if he chooses to leave.


----------



## Headspin

Wow, this is the closest thing to 'tears' our TAM wayward 'legend' that I have seen on here

She has everything 
Has never stepped 'outside'
She uncharacteristically crumbles under the allure of temptation the once 
Instantly regrets it knowing the gravity of her transgression
She wrestles with telling or not knowing she should but, could lose everything she cherishes the most
She confesses 

In tears' case he was gone without a second glance back 

The responses are very similar to tears thread too. 

She's getting poleaxed but she finds the courage to withstand that and stays and I / some of you can sense this is real - it IS genuine remorse. 

This really is a woman who does not know why she has done this and would just wish the ground would open up and take it all back 

That's what I sense about it. I think her 'friend' remarks are nothing that is what she saw him as and slipped into a light EA without knowing it. I believe her 

As in tears case there is a sense of genuine naivety in her that I am picking up on here 

I could be wrong .

__________

Un_Amor_Perdido

What you have done is terrible, you will never do anything worse in your whole life.

You have few choices here and many risks. 

You will be forever defined as a person in how you tackle this. Now

Like tears you have to understand the power the choices are now out of your hands and you simply await your fate 

Right now you have to leave him alone. You have just thrown a bomb into his life 
The fall out will be huge husband your children family friends. You will have to tell all to everybody to really let your husband know the full depth of your embarrassment and remorse. Sadly this is the start of all the clearing up you will need to embark upon.

___________ 

I would suggest you spend a whole day reading every single post in the tears thread which is the only one I have ever seen that parallels your dilemma 

After the same opening exchanges she became an iconic figure on here, a tragi-hero if you like. Why ?
Because she opened herself up to any scrutiny, without any come back, to any truths, to any criticism.
Abject remorse poured out from her with every post. Indeed she could never quite get to grips about the why of her infidelity, probably still to this day cannot 

Many of us here thought she had done enough to warrant some 'time' from her betrayed husband and it almost seemed like a natural thing that he would make her do whatever heavy lifting to gain some respect remorse repentance from her and give reconciliation a shot

She did all that 

*BUT* his response although completely justified was still shocking 

Within days he was gone

*.........and never returned* 

It was the one thing for him that broke everything. There was never a 'happy princess in fairyland' ending to the story 

Which kind of in its own way tell you just how destructive infidelity, even of a one night stand nature can be, let alone any of the more regular cheating scenarios we often see on here. 

Try to stay here lady, maybe there's a chance for you, maybe not. I sense you are one of the very few has unknowingly almost 'innocently' (bad choice of word) put everything they love and cherish on the line

This place can help you it really can so don't be put off by the avalanche that may come your way


----------



## weightlifter

Understand there are two kinds of men. Men who can get past it and men who cant. Note I say get past not get over. Pray for all you are worth he is a get past it guy.
ONE piece of advice.
Who I am: I am the guy who spends a fair amount of time destroying affairs. I have taken two calls from men here on the verge of a breakdown and talked them back. I have cleaned up / listened to vars the betrayed was afraid to listen to and provided transcripts. I know who some posters are IRL. I know the side of the BS. My own wife had an EA tho thankfully not a PA...

Your most likely path to reconcile is to surrender. Completely and utterly. Lie once and you drastically reduce your chances. 

SOME men need every detail because their imagination at this point is running wild with BDSM midget farm porno sex. Even if he asks "Where did he cum?" simply reply, "I will tell you but you can not unhear it." If he asks again, tell him. If he asks full brutal details, give them, FULLY and honestly.

Never even indirectly blame him. Just own it completely. IE When blaming the drunk blame yourself for getting drunk and still own it.

Let me post the most powerful thing I have ever read here from a poster named Doubletrouble. I posted about how much a betrayed spouse hurts. He came in and put into excruciating words. One light of hope for you. He IS still with her.

Doubletrouble's post

doubletrouble http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/86481-trying-save-whats-left-3.html#post2466177

I can tell you a few things about that from a male BS standpoint. 

Echoing what wl just said, you cannot say you're sorry often enough. Keep saying it. AND follow up with real change, real actions. 

The mind movies of her being with another man are something that runs through my head EVERY DAY. Every day when I see the same model car, hear his name randomly on the radio or during my business day, and other triggers I won't go into for various reasons... they all put my mind back in that bed, with her naked and wet, him naked and hard, taking what was supposed to be mine. She gave it willingly, thoroughly, completely, and then wrote to him what it was like to be in such a realtionship where she loved him so much. 

At that point with her I had NOTHING of what I thought I did. I was oblivious at the time, and she never told me. I had to find out. They did it in OUR bed, and since I was traveling at the time, I arrived the next day. His sperm wasn't even dead inside her before she accepted mine as well. That bites, in ways I can't even describe. It's the biggest betrayal, the biggest hit on my manhood and sexuality, as a provider and ALL the roles I take on as head of the family. That guy came in and stole it all... no, she gave it all to him in those moments. 

And it's not just the moments of sex, which are bad enough. To know what was being said between the two of them, and knowing he was married anyway, so just grabbing a free piece of ass at MY expense -- it's utter destruction of my heart. 

I could write on and on, because it goes on and on, but maybe that can give you a flavor of what you've done to your husband in those moments of gonad-driven stupidity and utter irresponsibility. You should be ashamed, you should be contrite, you should apologize over and over, and you must do all the heavy lifting because it was your CHOICE to spread 'em for some strange. 

And I tell her: I hope it was worth it.


----------



## 2asdf2

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I don’t care how long or how hard it gets I don’t want to be without him. I will spend the rest of my live making up to him if he gives me the chance too.


Today is a rough day for both of you. He is hurting too much, and thinking too much to want to be distracted. He is bewildered, and searching within himself for reasons for your conduct, but, more pointedly, for how his own behavior led to yours.

On top of all that introspection, he is mad at himself for not having figured out this drunken stuff happened, and mad at himself for not knowing how to react.

Give him time, but punctuate it with expressions of love: a loving text here, a cup of coffee at his door there when he returns, and persist in your affirmation of remorse.

Above all, and regardless of the reception your letter got, you have done the right thing.

You have done the right thing.

You have done the right thing.

You have done the right thing.

That is your reward. You have done the right thing in providing your husband with the information he must have to continue living the same way as before: free from deceit.

The arguments for coming clean have been made repeatedly and effectively throughout your thread. Effectively enough that you decided to acknowledge to your husband your bad behavior. 

Reread the posts in your other thread, it all still applies. You have done right by your husband. Be proud of that, you took the path of truthfulness, and eschewed the path of deceit and prevarication. Be proud of that.

As you should be proud of yourself, I am proud of you. I can assure you that 99% of posters here are also proud of you.

Now, hold your head high, you have regained your moral authority, and prepare to be the lovingest wife a husband ever had. If he does not appreciate that -and love you for it- it is because he is still raw, and has not had time to think things through.

Be strong!


----------



## Philat

The other side of the coin wrt Tears is, IMO, the Adamses' story. There are many similarities between what Tears did and what Mrs JA did. Tears' husband reacted one way, Mr. Adams another. And UAP's H could react yet a different way. The only thing UAP can do is be completely honest, truthful and remorseful (as both Tears and Mrs. JA were) and hope for the best. No one can say that any particular reaction by her BH is better or worse--it will be what it will be.


----------



## convert

The way OP wrote about her husband facial expressions, it was like i was there. I know that pain all so well. I got sick to my stomach just reading her post.

I do not know if it would have been right, but I am one of the few that if this was just a one time thing and he would have not found out any other way...... well i know i am wrong, but that god dam pain.


I triggered bad


she has not posted so i hope they are talking and I hope nothing bad has happened


----------



## 2asdf2

convert said:


> The way OP wrote about her husband facial expressions, it was like i was there. I know that pain all so well. I got sick to my stomach just reading her post.
> 
> I do not know if it would have been right, but I am one of the few that if this was just a one time thing and *he would have not found out any other way......* well i know i am wrong, but that god dam pain.
> 
> 
> I triggered bad
> 
> 
> she has not posted so i hope they are talking and I hope nothing bad has happened


Didn't it happen at a party? After she had left another party with OM?

Plenty of people had the potential opportunity to tell BH. They might have done that or not. That is not the point. UAP chose to do the right thing, and face the consequences. That -her rejection of her own hurtful conduct- is proof -to me- of her high character and moral fiber.


----------



## convert

2sdf2, yes you are right


----------



## Wolf1974

Least you care OP. When I confronted my x wife on her affair she was complete nonchalant about the whole thing. Just stood there saying yep yep yep to everything. Coldest ***** I have ever known. 

You came clean and showed your pain...it was the right thing....you will need to give him time to process.


----------



## turnera

perdido, did he show up?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

2asdf2 said:


> Today is a rough day for both of you. He is hurting too much, and thinking too much to want to be distracted. He is bewildered, and searching within himself for reasons for your conduct, but, more pointedly, for how his own behavior led to yours.
> 
> On top of all that introspection, he is mad at himself for not having figured out this drunken stuff happened, and mad at himself for not knowing how to react.
> 
> Give him time, but punctuate it with expressions of love: a loving text here, a cup of coffee at his door there when he returns, and persist in your affirmation of remorse.
> 
> Above all, and regardless of the reception your letter got, you have done the right thing.
> 
> You have done the right thing.
> 
> You have done the right thing.
> 
> You have done the right thing.
> 
> That is your reward. You have done the right thing in providing your husband with the information he must have to continue living the same way as before: free from deceit.
> 
> The arguments for coming clean have been made repeatedly and effectively throughout your thread. Effectively enough that you decided to acknowledge to your husband your bad behavior.
> 
> Reread the posts in your other thread, it all still applies. You have done right by your husband. Be proud of that, you took the path of truthfulness, and eschewed the path of deceit and prevarication. Be proud of that.
> 
> As you should be proud of yourself, I am proud of you. I can assure you that 99% of posters here are also proud of you.
> 
> Now, hold your head high, you have regained your moral authority, and prepare to be the lovingest wife a husband ever had. If he does not appreciate that -and love you for it- it is because he is still raw, and has not had time to think things through.
> 
> Be strong!


I agree that telling him was the right thing to do, but I'm wondering how he would react to "expressions of love." nonverbal might be OK, but if I were him I would absolutely explode at this point if she were to say she loved me. Her actions simply prove otherwise. She might not be a mean person, but if that's the case I think its more accyurate to say that she _tried_ to love him, but failed. I suppose someone that fails at something can try again, maybe succeed the 2nd time. That's where IC or MC might help.


----------



## 2asdf2

nuclearnightmare said:


> I agree that telling him was the right thing to do, but I'm wondering how he would react to "expressions of love." nonverbal might be OK, but if I were him I would absolutely explode at this point if she were to say she loved me. Her actions simply prove otherwise. She might not be a mean person, but if that's the case I think its more accyurate to say that she _tried_ to love him, but failed. I suppose someone that fails at something can try again, maybe succeed the 2nd time. That's where IC or MC might help.


We're talking here about one drunken one-night-stand. And a very remorseful WW...


----------



## sidney2718

Headspin: I generally agree with you, except for this:



Headspin said:


> Un_Amor_Perdido
> What you have done is terrible, you will never do anything worse in your whole life.


This is simply untrue. I know that many of us here have been deeply hurt by infidelity and as a result believe this. I believe that this falsehood delays reconciliation, complicates divorce, and leads to general unhappiness.

There are thousands of things worse than being unfaithful. One is being an ax murderer. Another is being a pedophile. A third is having an often fatal and transmissible disease such as AIDS and not caring who you infect. Another is to find it amusing to beat defenseless people, sometimes to death. 

I could go on and on. I've not even talked about people who have KILLED their children to hurt a spouse. And I could get even more graphic.

Committing infidelity is bad. Very bad. And very hurtful. But it is NOT The worst thing a person could do. Indeed, in some societies it is not unheard of for a man to simply kill his wife because he is angry with her.

I apologize for this rant being a comment to Headspin's post. I am not picking on Headspin. The statement made (quoted above) is common enough around here. And shouldn't be.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

sidney2718 said:


> Headspin: I generally agree with you, except for this:
> 
> 
> 
> This is simply untrue. I know that many of us here have been deeply hurt by infidelity and as a result believe this. I believe that this falsehood delays reconciliation, complicates divorce, and leads to general unhappiness.
> 
> There are thousands of things worse than being unfaithful. One is being an ax murderer. Another is being a pedophile. A third is having an often fatal and transmissible disease such as AIDS and not caring who you infect. Another is to find it amusing to beat defenseless people, sometimes to death.
> 
> I could go on and on. I've not even talked about people who have KILLED their children to hurt a spouse. And I could get even more graphic.
> 
> Committing infidelity is bad. Very bad. And very hurtful. But it is NOT The worst thing a person could do. Indeed, in some societies it is not unheard of for a man to simply kill his wife because he is angry with her.
> 
> I apologize for this rant being a comment to Headspin's post. I am not picking on Headspin. The statement made (quoted above) is common enough around here. And shouldn't be.


I agree with you, but I believe he was giving Un_Amor_Perdido the benefit of the doubt in assuming she wouldnt become an ax murderer or the like...


----------



## sidney2718

turnera said:


> perdido, did he show up?


Right now this is the main question in this thread, at least in my opinion.


----------



## sidney2718

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I agree with you, but I believe he was giving Un_Amor_Perdido the benefit of the doubt in assuming she wouldnt become an ax murderer or the like...


Quite likely. I tried to emphasize that I was not picking on Headspin. It is a general TAM attitude that I was calling out.

Infidelity is bad. But it is NOT the worst thing in the world.


----------



## verpin zal

Let us realize that OP's hubby has the only say on "what's worst and what's not list" of his own, and leave it at that, shall we?

Logic says that open marriage is an awesome lifestyle too, from a certain point of view.

From a certain point of view.


----------



## 2asdf2

sidney2718 said:


> Right now this is the main question in this thread, at least in my opinion.


The main question in this thread now is that UAP followed our advice, and she is now hurting and needs support for her decision to come clean.

I don't see much support, so far.


----------



## MattMatt

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I posted here in support of her decision. I am not going to come here and coddle her; this is after all entirely her doing in the first place.


And you think she doesn't already understand that?:scratchhead:


----------



## 2asdf2

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I posted here in support of her decision. I am not going to come here and coddle her; this is after all entirely her doing in the first place.


We all supported her decision.

Now we need to support her, who is hurting.


----------



## LongWalk

This why I suggested that she carefully consider how she confessed. She should have had a safety net in place. Family to mediate. He should have been told on Saturday morning. Not a weekday night.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Despite what she did, the OP has shown courage, true remorse and empathy and deserves all the support we can give her.

OP please do come back and update us and maybe we can help.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

MattMatt said:


> I have a different view from yours. That's true. Why? Because I have been where her husband has been, on the receiving end of a confession you really don't want to hear, but must hear.
> 
> And I have also been where UAP has been, having to confess to your spouse that you cheated. (Mine stopped short of Intercourse, but even so...)
> 
> And you know something? My confession hurt me more than my being cheated on hurt me.


Yeah, but thats YOU. Perhaps you have empathy that exceeds Un_Amor, and perhaps you dont. Its hard to say when you are not in someones head..

I dont doubt you felt worse. I cant imagine how I would feel in that situation. I guess I feel that until it becomes apparent over a long period of time, talk is cheap. Look at El- she tortures herself over it- I have no doubt she feels remorse, to the point she needs to forgive herself. Un_Amor? Probably, but much has yet to be played out, you know? I dont want to get in a kerfuffle over this, but I think its important everyone gives UAP their views and that we let her determine where she stands and prove it through action.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Sorry for disappearing on you guys. Sadly things seem to be getting worse as the days pass. My husband still hasn’t come home yet. I tried calling every that knew him hoping someone could tell me where he could be but I got nothing. I even tried going to his parent’s house and his brother’s house hoping he would be there but he wasn’t there. I even went to his dads firm he works with his dad but he wasn’t there either. I did get a text from him telling me to leave him alone. I haven’t heard from him since. I still tried contacting after that text but he wasn’t answering. So stopped for now

I will try to post more tomorrow if I can. I don’t really have the energy to do anything right now. I haven’t really been eating or getting that’s much sleep before I confessed since then I haven’t eaten anything and then only sleep I was able to get was with the help of a sleeping pill. I am trying to stay positive and hoping for the best but everything seems like a lost cause.

I will try to answer all the questions tomorrow


----------



## xakulax

I wouldn't be surprised OP if he is with someone you already ask trying to lay low give him time.


----------



## xakulax

The question now OP is what is your plan when he comes back do you have one?


----------



## bandit.45

Mi Amiga don't worry about a plan right now. Give him his space and let him be. He will come home when he's ready. Get some rest. Eat something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Mi Amiga don't worry about a plan right now. Give him his space and let him be. He will come home when he's ready. Get some rest. Eat something.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Coehe tu tiempo.
Take your time not sure if it's correct but Bandit is right he has the high ground here.
But on a lighter note Bandit and I can hack up spanish just like johnny barone in johnny dangerously.
End threadjack.
Give him time!


----------



## bandit.45

Ta bueno.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Ta bueno.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


muy chingun guahalote


----------



## xakulax

caballero, creo que saliendo del tema


----------



## Miss Taken

UAP, 

Regardless of how harsh I came across in your other thread; please know that I am on your side. Whatever comes from your confession - please know that you did do the right thing by telling him the truth. I applaud you for that one-hundred percent. That took courage and it shows that you can act unselfishly because you knew what you stood to lose by telling but took that risk anyway.

I can understand that this is a very scary time for you but please don’t lose hope. Your husband’s immediate actions post-confession do not determine the outcome of what is to be or not to be in your relationship. Although it feels like hope is lost, it doesn’t signify “the end” for the two of you either. 

It probably does feel like the ball is in your husband’s court. However, that doesn’t mean that you don’t have any power in this situation over how things go. Your husband’s immediate reaction - to shut you out also doesn’t necessarily mean for forever. When I found out about my spouse’s betrayal, kicking him out and shutting him out was my immediate reaction too but it wasn’t a permanent one. Time and consistent actions can bring forth change for better and for worse. 

I do empathize with your husband as a betrayed spouse but I also do know that you are hurting too and scared of what’s to be. As a mom to another mom, you need to make sure to eat and get some sleep so you can be there for your kiddos. As a betrayed to a wayward, I will hint that wanting to be left alone isn’t always true and even if it’s true it’s not always forever. The biggest messed up thing about infidelity is that the one who hurt us the most is also the person that can do the most to help us to heal. 

So even though rejection totally sucks, when he asks you for time alone, I would try again. Depending on the circumstances – you can be the judge of when to try again. Obviously, leave him alone if he wants absolutely nothing to do with you but verify first that he means it. He may mean it for today, for a week or even a month. However, he may also change his mind and be even more hurt when you aren’t there. That’s why it’s important to try again.


----------



## Graywolf2

You have many qualities that make it obvious that you’re a good person. You have a well-developed conscious. You respected your husband so much that you couldn’t lie to him no matter how much it might cost you. You’re worried sick about his welfare. 

With the exception of the single one night stand, you sound like the type of woman a man would be lucky to have for a wife.

Being an otherwise good wife is working against you. Your husband had you on a pedestal. It wouldn’t have been such a shock for him if he had considered you average.

That’s what drives me crazy. What you did was totally out of character and you have company. An example is a poster called “Tears” in the private section. Tears and others are just like you. 

They loved their husband and had no intention of ever cheating. Out of the blue a cute guy peruses them and they have sex. These women had children and the sex was a one time thing. It’s as if they said “What the hell” and just went with the flow of what the OM wanted. None of them know why they did it. They soon regret what they did (sometimes during the sex) and wind up telling their husband.

This is my theory: These good wives never flirt and are surprised when this cute guy is after them, a married woman. They enjoy the attention but think they are safe because they’re married and have never even considered cheating. The blatant pursuit captivates them and lets them know that they still have it. They are now in a bad position. Have they lead the OM on? Then having sex is what I can’t figure out. 

Some women describe it as an out of body experience where they were just watching themselves do it. 

Your husband will want to know why. Think about your answer. The reason he ran was because he can’t face the new world that was thrust upon him. His opinion of you and your marriage validated the choices he made in life and made him proud. Now he’s thinking that those choices may have been a mistake and he feels like a fool. As others have said, he needs time to adjust.

Get full credit for telling him. Tell him that you know full well how terrible what you did was and that’s why you couldn’t live with yourself.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Miss Taken said:


> UAP,
> 
> Regardless of how harsh I came across in your other thread; please know that I am on your side. Whatever comes from your confession - please know that you did do the right thing by telling him the truth. I applaud you for that one-hundred percent. That took courage and it shows that you can act unselfishly because you knew what you stood to lose by telling but took that risk anyway.
> 
> I can understand that this is a very scary time for you but please don’t lose hope. Your husband’s immediate actions post-confession do not determine the outcome of what is to be or not to be in your relationship. Although it feels like hope is lost, it doesn’t signify “the end” for the two of you either.
> 
> It probably does feel like the ball is in your husband’s court. However, that doesn’t mean that you don’t have any power in this situation over how things go. Your husband’s immediate reaction - to shut you out also doesn’t necessarily mean for forever. When I found out about my spouse’s betrayal, kicking him out and shutting him out was my immediate reaction too but it wasn’t a permanent one. Time and consistent actions can bring forth change for better and for worse.
> 
> I do empathize with your husband as a betrayed spouse but I also do know that you are hurting too and scared of what’s to be. As a mom to another mom, you need to make sure to eat and get some sleep so you can be there for your kiddos. As a betrayed to a wayward, I will hint that wanting to be left alone isn’t always true and even if it’s true it’s not always forever. The biggest messed up thing about infidelity is that the one who hurt us the most is also the person that can do the most to help us to heal.
> 
> So even though rejection totally sucks, when he asks you for time alone, I would try again. Depending on the circumstances – you can be the judge of when to try again. Obviously, leave him alone if he wants absolutely nothing to do with you but verify first that he means it. He may mean it for today, for a week or even a month. However, he may also change his mind and be even more hurt when you aren’t there. That’s why it’s important to try again.


I agree. Us, the BS's can be hard on new WS's that come here. It usually centers around what the WS wrote in their first post. Things like "I made a mistake", "The reason(s) I cheated were" and in some, or all, ways trying to blame the BS for them having to cheat to begin with.

The get corrected HARD and FAST around here.

I know you are going through hell right now, but just remember you're husband's going through a different hell also. Not one that he decided to enter himself. You've also know about your since it started. Your Husband just found out.

Hopefully he starts talking to you soon, but you just have to give him the time and space for now.


----------



## MattMatt

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I agree. Us, the BS's can be hard on new WS's that come here. It usually centers around what the WS wrote in their first post. Things like "I made a mistake", "The reason(s) I cheated were" and in some, or all, ways trying to blame the BS for them having to cheat to begin with.
> 
> The get corrected HARD and FAST around here.
> 
> I know you are going through hell right now, but just remember you're husband's going through a different hell also. Not one that he decided to enter himself. You've also know about your since it started. Your Husband just found out.
> 
> Hopefully he starts talking to you soon, but you just have to give him the time and space for now.


The trouble is that some BS' just read: "I cheated and..." they then think: "You cheated? So you are just like my evil, cheating X! Boy, if my X was here, this is what I'd say to her!" Then they say it. to someone else's WS!

There have been occasions when a BS has stepped in on TAM and said: "Excuse me, but that's *my* wife you are talking to!"


----------



## Miss Taken

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I agree. Us, the BS's can be hard on new WS's that come here. It usually centers around what the WS wrote in their first post. Things like "I made a mistake", "The reason(s) I cheated were" and in some, or all, ways trying to blame the BS for them having to cheat to begin with.


Yes, I agree. _Usually_. Unfortunately, there is also lashing out and projection one's hurt over their own spouse at WS's as well. It's counter-productive because us BS's can benefit from hearing both sides to better understand our own situations. Although painful to hear the other side, it's helpful to hear it even when we can't agree. There is a difference between correcting, guiding and hitting someone with the proverbial 2x4 because you want to help, as in your example and the former. When it's the former, it discourages a lot of WS's from posting here.... but that's another thread for another time.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I agree. Us, the BS's can be hard on new WS's that come here. It usually centers around what the WS wrote in their first post. Things like "I made a mistake", "The reason(s) I cheated were" and in some, or all, ways trying to blame the BS for them having to cheat to begin with.
> 
> The get corrected HARD and FAST around here.
> 
> I know you are going through hell right now, but just remember you're husband's going through a different hell also. Not one that he decided to enter himself. You've also know about your since it started. Your Husband just found out.
> 
> Hopefully he starts talking to you soon, but you just have to give him the time and space for now.


Let me state for a second time that I dont wish to dismiss or demean anyone elses opinion; I thoroughly believe that each of us should believe what passes our filters of logic, not what we might want to or what the majority believes. Please understand I offer my perspectives with respect- if we agree on nothing else fellas/gals, lets at least agree that we are all in our own ways trying to see a better future come about with our advice. I believe nothing is served by being at emotional odds with one another, if any of us feel that way.

With that said, I have questions regarding our choice to offer coddling support to a WS (I use coddling without the negative connotations associated with relating an adult to infancy- cant think of a better word). What is the fundamental difference between a BS and all of us here? Why is it the dominant narrative of this social sphere suggests we should offer emotional support beyond acknowledgment while simultaneously understanding _and supporting_ the BS's desire to do exactly the opposite? What is the fundamental difference between _why_ we might _feel_ a desire to coddle a WS and _why_ a BS might _feel_ a totally different desire? Self-interest? Desire for the self to contribute advice that is accepted and proves useful? I cant help but think how different the comments might be if the BS had his own thread on this very forum.

One talks of empathy, and I understand. But for whom is our empathy most deserved? The one who chose to betray another, or the one who feels the pain of being subjected to the betrayal? If the BS chose a path of completely ending the relationship, would we all feel that was the best course of action to take, and why would we feel that way? 

Often in war, support is garnered for engagement by _dehumanizing_ the opponent- we are much more likely to side with the emotional outpouring of one who we can see, hear, or touch. I cant help but wonder- is that what is happening here? We cannot see, hear, touch, or even conceptually embody beyond generality the BS in this situation; what if support beyond acknowledgment leaves the WS with MORE support than the BS? Is that something willing to be accepted by the masses of this forum?

What of other threads in this forum where the BS is the original poster? "Dont believe anything that comes out of their mouth. Its all lies." Does that only apply to hurtful comments, or does it also apply to apologies and signs of remorse for cheating? I have heard many suggest it applies to the former and the latter; are we certain this situation is any different due to a context that is only different by a shade of gray? I have seen myself threads where the BS relays a conversation where the WS profusely apologizes- 2 weeks later, he/she is cold as a fish again. "A real alpha can do better than your cheating wife- there are plenty of good women out there ready to find someone like you" (paraphrased from memory); would all of us offer such a statement to the BS in this situation despite what we know of Un_Amor_Perdido's remorse?

I dont have the answers to my questions above. I might have subjective opinions, but certainly not answers. Is it wrong for me to contemplate them? And all of these questions above- certainly different iterations are being run over constantly in a swirl of pain and confusion around the BS's head. 

What drives anyone to post here? A desire to be socially accepted (which is why many cheaters come here looking for us to accept their cheating as their spouses fault due to "neglect" etc). A desire to change the present into a more desirable future. It is inherently self-interest motivated, and is thus justification for suspicion on our parts, especially when coupled with a track record of betrayal (even though in this case, the track record is only one race)...

If the OP stays the course, submits herself to the pain she has caused, and repeatedly demonstrates she indeed focuses more on the empathetic realization of her BS's pain than she does her own self-interest, I will be glad to offer coddling support. But these things take time, and I feel that any kind of haste makes waste in terms of judgement (which, socially correct or not, we all do a lot of here..).

These are just my opinions. I feel the above important to say for all the betrayed spouses who never found this forum, and for all the betrayers who make themselves feel better through the support of biased individuals (family, lifelong friends, etc), blame-shifting and marginalization.


----------



## WhiteRaven

BadKarma, if you keep hating bad people there won't be anyone to love because everyone is bad in someway or the other.


----------



## WhiteRaven

BK, confession doesn't absolve the sin. What confession does is put you on the road to make yourself a better person worthy on trust. People change- for better or worse. If they change for the better, why shouldn't they be forgiven. 

In case of Perdido, I don't think this would be her only affair. She would have another one somewhere along the way, my gut feeling. Her confession has minimized further chances.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

WhiteRaven said:


> BK, confession doesn't absolve the sin. What confession does is put you on the road to make yourself a better person worthy on trust. People change- for better or worse. If they change for the better, why shouldn't they be forgiven.
> 
> In case of Perdido, I don't think this would be her only affair. She would have another one somewhere along the way, my gut feeling.


I really like the first paragraph. That is really what I was trying to say in a much less concise way on the earlier page. In my case, she has earned enough respect by her confession to where I am open to the possibility that she might grow into a person never again capable of the betrayal she has committed on her husband. 

In terms of the second paragraph, might I ask what you mean exactly? Do you feel she is innately prone to affairs (no pun intended), or just that she would have done it again if she hadnt confessed :scratchhead:


----------



## Philat

badkarma2013 said:


> I cannot get my head around people thinking this type of behavior
> is anywhere is sort of ok if you confess or admit it as my ww did.


BH here. Where on this thread (or anywhere on TAM, for that matter) has anyone said or even implied that cheating behavior is any kind of OK as long as you confess? The positive of confessing is making R easier if the BS wishes it, not absolving the infidelity itself.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

WhiteRaven said:


> She would have done it again if she didn't confess. I forgot to add this line. Thanks for highlighting the mistake.


Ahh. I agree. I didnt understand what you meant; I wasnt trying to highlight anything 

On standby for updates before any further judgement...


----------



## Philat

badkarma2013 said:


> As marriage counselor told my wife when i served her with D papers. do not confuse Forgiveness with Reconciliation ..they are not the same thing.


This I think we can all agree with.


----------



## xakulax

OptimisticPessimist said:


> Ahh. I agree. I didnt understand what you meant; I wasnt trying to highlight anything
> 
> *On standby for updates before any further judgement*...



I think we all are at this point.


----------



## m0nk

Philat said:


> BH here. Where on this thread (or anywhere on TAM, for that matter) has anyone said or even implied that cheating behavior is any kind of OK as long as you confess? The positive of confessing is making R easier if the BS wishes it, not absolving the infidelity itself.


+1
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## harrybrown

OP-

If you put yourself in your H's place, how would you feel if he had an affair?

If you want to help your H, you could try talking to his Dad. I thought you said he worked with his Dad. You could out yourself to your father-in-law, but he may already know. Maybe his Dad could try to see that your H gets some help with his pain.

If he will not go to counseling, maybe you could direct him to TAM.

It was a good thing that you did in telling him. Good luck, but keep trying. You are making better decisions than when you cheated. I do hope your can figure out how you felt it would be okay to cheat. If you go to counseling, maybe you can figure out why.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

harrybrown said:


> OP-
> 
> If you put yourself in your H's place, how would you feel if he had an affair?
> 
> If you want to help your H, you could try talking to his Dad. I thought you said he worked with his Dad. You could out yourself to your father-in-law, but he may already know. Maybe his Dad could try to see that your H gets some help with his pain.
> 
> If he will not go to counseling, maybe you could direct him to TAM.
> 
> It was a good thing that you did in telling him. Good luck, but keep trying. You are making better decisions than when you cheated. I do hope your can figure out how you felt it would be okay to cheat. If you go to counseling, maybe you can figure out why.


I have to say I disagree with the idea of talking with the father- the father is understandably biased and no good can come from that.

Leave it alone OP! Leave him to himself until he chooses to come along on his own...


----------



## 3putt

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I have to say I disagree with the idea of talking with the father- the father is understandably biased and no good can come from that.
> 
> Leave it alone OP! Leave him to himself until he chooses to come along on his own...


That not true at all. You never have any idea just how an inlaw or relative is going to react to infidelity. While it's true that support may not last forever or even for very long, it's been true in many cases that the inlaws put tremendous pressure on their son or daughter to end the adultery and start to work on repairing their marriage.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

3putt said:


> That not true at all. You never have any idea just how an inlaw or relative is going to react to infidelity. While it's true that support may not last forever or even for very long, it's been true in many cases that the inlaws put tremendous pressure on their son or daughter to end the adultery and start to work on repairing their marriage.


Yeah, but in this case the husband doesnt need any pressure to quit an affair- he isnt the one who had one. Does he deserve additional pressure, and can it even be morally justified?

Shouldnt he have the right to determine when his family finds out about his wife cheating? If he so wishes, then she could talk to the father.

Idk- some of us want time alone and in the shelter of our own thoughts; I know I would be upset if my WS contacted my family in an effort to facilitate her own desires to reconcile- it would seem more of the same selfish that led her to the affair in the first place.


----------



## 3putt

OptimisticPessimist said:


> Yeah, but in this case the husband doesnt need any pressure to quit an affair- he isnt the one who had one. Does he deserve additional pressure, and can it even be morally justified?
> 
> Shouldnt he have the right to determine when his family finds out about his wife cheating? If he so wishes, then she could talk to the father.
> 
> Idk- some of us want time alone and in the shelter of our own thoughts; I know I would be upset if my WS contacted my family in an effort to facilitate her own desires to reconcile- it would seem more of the same selfish that led her to the affair in the first place.


By bad. As many left turns as this thread has taken today I assumed we were now speaking in generalities. Hard to tell with all the thread-jacking going on around here these days.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

3putt said:


> By bad. As many left turns as this thread has taken today I assumed we were now speaking in generalities. Hard to tell with all the thread-jacking going on around here these days.


No worries- I wasnt clear enough 

Tensions run high here and I suppose though with the best intentions I have fueled them here today 

As I said before, on standby!


----------



## badkarma2013

xakulax said:


> NO where have I ever said I accept her actions or behavior you should read her last thread and see what it took just to get her to this point to confess.


my comment was Not directed at you or anyone in particular ....if it seemed that way .....My Apologies


----------



## loveforfamily

badkarma2013 said:


> Thank You White Raven.....Point well taken.
> 
> I cannot get my head around people thinking this type of behavior
> is anywhere is sort of ok if you confess or admit it as my ww did.
> 
> It is almost unforgivable and I for one will never forget the details of her A, NEVER.
> 
> As a BH let me say this ....Let This Happen To You...Then you can judge me. Until then Do Not Get on this forum and pretend to advise anyone under these circumstances.
> 
> You have no idea what you are talking about.


Last I read, there are all types that have stood on both sides of this advising. You seem to hold a lot of anger and I hope you free yourself from that soon.


----------



## badkarma2013

loveforfamily...I appreciate your comments as i have found happiness with a beautiful caring woman since my divorce.. but..i fear i will carry the pain of the betrayal and deception all of my days.

MC says it will lessen in time...I truly hope so.


----------



## xakulax

badkarma2013 Will you be posting your story here? some times the act of withing it out can be a big help releasing some of the anger.


----------



## DarkHoly

MattMatt said:


> The trouble is that some BS' just read: "I cheated and..." they then think: "You cheated? So you are just like my evil, cheating X! Boy, if my X was here, this is what I'd say to her!" Then they say it. to someone else's WS!
> 
> There have been occasions when a BS has stepped in on TAM and said: "Excuse me, but that's *my* wife you are talking to!"


I call those guys doormats.


----------



## DarkHoly

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Sorry for disappearing on you guys. Sadly things seem to be getting worse as the days pass. My husband still hasn’t come home yet. I tried calling every that knew him hoping someone could tell me where he could be but I got nothing. I even tried going to his parent’s house and his brother’s house hoping he would be there but he wasn’t there. I even went to his dads firm he works with his dad but he wasn’t there either. I did get a text from him telling me to leave him alone. I haven’t heard from him since. I still tried contacting after that text but he wasn’t answering. So stopped for now
> 
> I will try to post more tomorrow if I can. I don’t really have the energy to do anything right now. I haven’t really been eating or getting that’s much sleep before I confessed since then I haven’t eaten anything and then only sleep I was able to get was with the help of a sleeping pill. *I am trying to stay positive and hoping for the best* but everything seems like a lost cause.
> 
> I will try to answer all the questions tomorrow


I'm going to be as clear and yet as sympathetic as I can be. Stay positive for what? Hoping for the best? 

What do you believe to be the best? Best for who? You or him? This is a good time to reflect upon yourself rather than blow up his phone with desperation. I think the situation would be best served with you determining, for yourself and by yourself, why exactly you want him back so badly. I know that seems to be what's best for you, especially right now, but ask yourself these two questions:

1) Why is it clear now, and why was it not before? 

2) Which do you want more? What is best for him, or what is best for you? Because I can guarantee those are two different things. 

You may also want to consider the very possible reality that you don't really want him back, you are simply feeling the sting of loss; and that, were he to return, you would eventually do it again. Most cheaters are like that.

I am truly sorry you are in this situation, but this really is your mess. If you love him, I mean really love him, you will not try to manipulate or steer him to come back to you. You will tell him (once, and if he decides to speak to you again), genuinely, with no ulterior motive, that you want what is best for *him*, and that your fate is incidental in that endeavor. Truly, fully throw yourself at his feet and beg not for mercy, but for his fullest wellbeing. And if he decides to leave you as you deserve to be left, support him in that.

This is an attitude, not a string of actions. If you can really feel these things then your practice of them will be perceived as genuine because they will be just that. 

This is ironically the pattern of behavior that has the highest chance of winning back a betrayed spouse. It's ironic because most cheaters are ill-equipped to be genuine, and even less inclined to be selfless. 

Like I said. You're gonna carry that weight.


----------



## thummper

Well, she's dealt with her guilt, now she's dealing with the crushing response to her honesty. I'm sure most of the folks on this forum as just as pleased as can be that she's going through this hell. Hope all of you who kept dinging on her to fess up are happy with the results. Honesty is NOT always the best policy, as she has woefully discovered.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

verpin zal said:


> It would appear as I'm not able to see Kendall's and Un_amor's latest posts in the thread. I don't think I'm THAT drunk, yet.
> 
> Thread broken? What the- ?


Me either. Moderated perhaps? Dunno :scratchhead:


----------



## 3putt

verpin zal said:


> It would appear as I'm not able to see Kendall's and Un_amor's latest posts in the thread. I don't think I'm THAT drunk, yet.
> 
> Thread broken? What the- ?


Kendall deleted her post either during my response to her or shortly thereafter. But what she wrote is captured in mine.


----------



## 3putt

thummper said:


> And here's a perfect example of what I just said. Your joy at her misery is disgusting. Go ahead and rub her nose in it just a little more. And Kendall, I'm so disappointed in your attitude. You came dangerously close to an EA yourself. Your holier-than-thou attitude is disturbing.


One very minor correction here. She was already in an EA, she just didn't know how to identify it. What she WAS dangerously close to was a PA, and that's what I found offensive and arrogant about her comments.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Well my husband came home around 5. I tried to talk to him but he wasn’t having it he just ignored me and went into his room. I was in front of his door crying and begging him to let me in so we could talk. After a while he got tired of it and came out scheming telling me to leave him alone and calling me a few not so nice names. So I did I went upstairs to our room to leave him alone


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

WyshIknew said:


> UAP.
> 
> I may have missed it but I think you haven't indicated the marital status of OM.
> 
> Is he married, single, engaged, LTR?
> 
> What if hubby wants to get revenge on OM?
> 
> Punches him out, police get involved?
> 
> Wants to post OM on Cheaterville?
> 
> Exposes the affair to his SO?
> 
> What if he says he would like a revenge affair?
> 
> What if he just says he's done? Are you going to take him to the cleaners?



My AP is single well at least that’s what he has told me. He could have been lying and what I have read about affairs the OM usually does lie so who knows. I don’t really care he’s not my concern. As for my husband getting revenge on my AP I don’t really care what he does to him as long as it won’t land him in any kind of legal trouble or any kind trouble for that matter. Last thing I want is for my husband jeopardize his future and his career because of what I did. If my husband wants to do something with someone else then I can’t really stop him although I would rather he not do anything like that just the thought of it hurts like crazy’s. I know that’s hypocritical of me but that’s how I really feel. If my husband does go the divorce route then I want it to be easy as possible for the both of us. I would like to make it as fair as possible for me, kids and him. I never understood why anybody would want to take their spouses to the cleaners it usually always the kids that suffer because of it.


----------



## jim123

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Well my husband came home around 5. I tried to talk to him but he wasn’t having it he just ignored me and went into his room. I was in front of his door crying and begging him to let me in so we could talk. After a while he got tired of it and came out scheming telling me to leave him alone and calling me a few not so nice names. So I did I went upstairs to our room to leave him alone


He is home and that is the most important. 

Start the process of healing.

Get to an IC and let him know you are fixing you.

Get a name of an MC.

Write a no contact letter for the OM.

Do a timeline of the affair and have it ready.

If you are still in school with OM, you need to look at changing schools.

All friends that knew OM have to go.


----------



## 3putt

Anonymous Person said:


> I actually agree with him. I think she needs to step back and reevaluate her priorities.
> 
> Perhaps deep down she doesn't really want to stay married, it would be good for her to find out. On the other end, perhaps she should focus on putting her husband first at the moment, and that might exclude her from his life if he wants some alone time or he eventually decides to divorce her.


Me thinks you may have left out the part that I was referring to. 

I agree with a lot of what he said...most actually. It's the constant head stomping I have a problem with.


----------



## loveforfamily

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Well my husband came home around 5. I tried to talk to him but he wasn’t having it he just ignored me and went into his room. I was in front of his door crying and begging him to let me in so we could talk. After a while he got tired of it and came out scheming telling me to leave him alone and calling me a few not so nice names. So I did I went upstairs to our room to leave him alone


I am glad to hear he came home. Give him his space. You begging at his door to come out is to ease your pain, not his. Have patience. He deserves that from you. You don't have to be stoic and unfeeling. You don't have to deny your pain, however, right now is about acknowledge his first. no blame game from you, okay. Don't let your own headspace take you there. If you have never known true humility and to be humble, now is the time to a start understanding that. Pride goes before the fall. Pride got you where you are now. Lose the pride. Again, I am glad that everyone is home safe. Let that be your relief for now. It's about him right now, because you made it about you. Get some sleep. You will need it. Let him know you are ready to talk when HE is. Be prepared, because it can come at anytime. Say if he wakes up middle of the night, comes to you...Be prepared. So rest now so you can be strong and be there for him.


----------



## turnera

It's going to take time before you'll know if he will consider staying with you. Obviously, he's taking it really really hard, so it will likely take more than just a few days before he can even be in the same room as you. Remember that if you do get to R, you'll have an open honest relationship because of you telling him. Much better than living a lie and him finding out some other way.


----------



## DarkHoly

3putt said:


> _That could be_, but what you seem to not acknowledge is just how much she has already been beaten half to death here (hence, me asking if you've read before you post).
> 
> When is enough, enough? This continuation of this badgering of her colossal piss poor choice has run it's course. We're not trying to run people off here, but give them a safe haven for advice and support.
> 
> I can see I'm not conveying what I'm trying to, so I'll just let it be.
> 
> Hell, crucify her. Have fun.


I assure you vehemently. It could be. And it be. I understand perfectly what you're conveying. I just don't think it's applicable. I don't read every response but I would say it's at best inconsequential. I don't believe in diluting a truth just because others have abused the pointy end of it. Chemo is chemo. It's pain to kill a greater sickness and you don't stop or lessen therapy just because you had improper doses or gamma rays before. 

I don't know who you are, but it's clear to me that you are perceptive, and you are also compassionate. These are good qualities. I mean no disrespect when I tell you most assuredly that such compassion must be paired with iron clad resolve. Erroneously channeled compassion has given us terrible, terrible things like postmodernism, Hitler, Obamacare and the Kardashians. 

The most difficult compassion we can muster is when we snap unwarranted relief, which wayward spouses are commonly seeking. The person is a junkie who has just had their stash removed, and giving them a hit to help them bury it all for just a little longer is not helpful. The impulse to give them that validation they seek needs to be squelched. We don't (rather we shouldn't) do this to revel in the screams we hear but rather because emerging from the pain honestly (by coming to terms with it and its source) is the birthright of a new and more wholesome person.

Comparing someone who has committed adultery to Jesus on the cross is a highly inadvisable course of thought.


----------



## DarkHoly

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My AP is single well at least that’s what he has told me. He could have been lying and what I have read about affairs the OM usually does lie so who knows. I don’t really care he’s not my concern. As for my husband getting revenge on my AP I don’t really care what he does to him as long as it won’t land him in any kind of legal trouble or any kind trouble for that matter. Last thing I want is for my husband jeopardize his future and his career because of what I did. If my husband wants to do something with someone else then I can’t really stop him although I would rather he not do anything like that just the thought of it hurts like crazy’s. I know that’s hypocritical of me but that’s how I really feel. If my husband does go the divorce route then I want it to be easy as possible for the both of us. I would like to make it as fair as possible for me, kids and him. I never understood why anybody would want to take their spouses to the cleaners it usually always the kids that suffer because of it.


UAP have you given any thought to the suggestion that all things being equal you really don't want to be married? Is it possible that you actually prefer a single lifestyle, but find yourself strongly attached to the companionship of having a husband? Sometimes when we have that person taken away from us, even if we don't want them, even if it's best not to have them, we still pine for them simply because we've lost them. I don't know if that is the case for you but it is something I'd highly recommend you contemplate. 

I must point out (likely to others' chagrin) that an affair is much more destructive to children than a messy divorce. Your raising the point of your children's wellbeing is eclipsed by a larger issue, and thusly moot I fear.


----------



## Decorum

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My AP is single well at least that’s what he has told me. He could have been lying and what I have read about affairs the OM usually does lie so who knows. I don’t really care he’s not my concern. As for my husband getting revenge on my AP I don’t really care what he does to him as long as it won’t land him in any kind of legal trouble or any kind trouble for that matter. Last thing I want is for my husband jeopardize his future and his career because of what I did. If my husband wants to do something with someone else then I can’t really stop him although I would rather he not do anything like that just the thought of it hurts like crazy’s. I know that’s hypocritical of me but that’s how I really feel. If my husband does go the divorce route then I want it to be easy as possible for the both of us. I would like to make it as fair as possible for me, kids and him. I never understood why anybody would want to take their spouses to the cleaners it usually always the kids that suffer because of it.


UAP,

Thank you for the update. 
Believe what the people here are telling you, it will be some time before even he will know what he really wants to do.

The specter of your AP has become a third person in the marriage to him.

You choice of him (your AP) strikes at the very core of his manhood, not to mention his respect, and trust for you.

He will be questioning everything about himself, his sexuality, how he could have been so wrong about you, can he ever get pasted this, etc etc.



The one person he could turn to and be honest about his insecurities has betrayed and publically humiliated him.

Don't push yourself on him, he will ask you and that is how you will know what he needs and WHEN he needs it. Probably repeatedly.

I will tell you this, don't tell him "I understand if you divorce me, I will be ok" that is usually insulting to a man in this situation.

It does not matter if he files for divorce to start with, stay the course, be honest, be RESPECTFUL, be remorseful as he shows he needs it.

That is all you can do and all you should do.

You chose this devastation and pain for him, he will make his choices in his time.



Having considered your posts up to this point I am going to suggest the following, because it reflects what I see as true in your situation.

When he asks "How you could do this" or "Why did you do this?" I suggest you say something like this...

Foolishly I followed a selfish desire for excitement in being courted by another man and traded the treasure I had for the passing feelings of attention from a person that was not and could never be the right man for me.

I knew I had traded all that mattered for nothing, there is no good reason, I hurt you beyond words for no good reason.

I did not fully consider the consequences of my choices, I was so wrong and I am so sorry. 
("How could you not consider it?"... "I put it out of my mind, that's why it was so foolish")

Stay with this and repeat what is needed as often as he asks.



If he decides to reconcile with you it will be a great gift on his part, but it would be unusual for him to even be sure he even wants to within the first 6 months. It will likely go back and forth.

He will go through the stages of grief, the anger stage will be hard to get through if the two of you are still together.

I read a post today by a man who a year out from his decision to reconcile was starting to feel like he could enjoy his life again, that is unusual for what I have seen here, it often takes longer.
If he does agree to reconcile it will take time.

The last thing he needs from you is pressure to decide, you made it hard on him and yourself.

I repeat, be there for him, be honest, be RESPECTFUL, be remorseful as he shows he needs it.

Some men disconnect, divorce and move on.
If he does that there is nothing you can do but respect it.

I wish you well,
Take care!


----------



## rustytheboyrobot

UAP, I only have one thing to say to you. Only one thing.

I wish my ex was more like you. But wishes are gusts of wind. You can feel them fluttering around but you can't hug them tight.

*hugs*


----------



## Chris989

Hi again Un Amor Perdido.

My now ex wife and I went through some crazy stuff after I discovered her affair. What she did was on the bad end of awful, but she never gave up,

She still hasn't and, without her constant desperation to keep me around I would not still be living with her.

Sometimes the guy sitting behind the door telling you to go away really doesn't want you to. Sometimes he might need you to beg forgiveness through the door as he truly believes you don't really want him and maybe, never did.

I am not suggesting you pester or hound him, but don't be put off.

You did the right thing telling him. You are doing the right thing now.

The best time to plant a seed is 10 years ago. Well that time has gone. The second best time? Today.

All you can do is your best from now onwards. Keep it up.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Honesty is NOT always the best policy, as she has woefully discovered."

Cannot disagree more on this point.

I agree with you that several people have been a bit over the line on demeaning and hurtful comments towards OP, primarily because I think she truly is remorseful and 'gets' how bad she had F'd up to a large extent.

I don't see the point of rude bluntness with a WS who is so obviously not wallowing in the 'fog', Fantasy Land, whatever you want to call it.

But that has NOTHING to to with whether a WS owes honesty at last to their BS after already engaging in disgusting betrayals of their vows.

I do not think their is any justification for adding lying and deception on top of those s****y actions. In fact, in some ways I think it is an even more heinous betrayal.

After all, it essentially involves robbing a BS of their basic human right to control their own lives and destiny in this world by withholding vital information from them like they are some F'ing child.


----------



## adriana

3putt said:


> Um, say what? So you don't believe in reconciliation under any circumstances?
> 
> If I recall correctly, you came pretty damned close very recently to breaking your own vows as well. So, just because you didn't cross that line it's now unforgivable for those that do?
> 
> What if an EA was your husband's line in the sand, and THAT was unforgivable or unrecoverable?
> 
> What would you say to yourself?



EXACTLY.... what a complete metamorphosis! Just a few short weeks ago Kendall, behind her husband's back, was sharing this amazing, Universe granted, metaphysical connection with Lee but it didn't stop her from casting the first stone today.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Un_Amor_Perdido, if you're reading this thread, don't let our infighting deter you from posting. Many of use here do want to genuinely help you.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

UAP- your husband is home. Give him his space, do not badger him. Let him know if/when he is ready to talk that you are available, anytime anyplace. Answer any and all questions he may have fully and truthfully.

You should also begin therapy for yourself. Get to the root of how and why you succumbed to a ONS so quickly. A young mother should not be consuming so much alcohol. And certainly not so much where you have no inhibitions. Use therapy to get to the root of these actions. Work on you. This will help show your husband your remorse, more than tears and begging will. 

You will also need to cut yourself off from the other man, and any friends that enabled this situation. If you have classes with the OM, you will need to withdraw from those classes. Check with an academic advisor to see how a withdrawal affects your academic progress and /or any financial aid you receive. If it has an adverse affect, be honest with the academics advisor. It could be possible to take incompletes and finish over the summer. Depends on if your school takes attendance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

Chris989 said:


> Hi again Un Amor Perdido.
> 
> My now ex wife and I went through some crazy stuff after I discovered her affair. What she did was on the bad end of awful, but she never gave up,
> 
> She still hasn't and, without her constant desperation to keep me around I would not still be living with her.
> 
> Sometimes the guy sitting behind the door telling you to go away really doesn't want you to. Sometimes he might need you to beg forgiveness through the door as he truly believes you don't really want him and maybe, never did.
> 
> I am not suggesting you pester or hound him, but don't be put off.
> 
> You did the right thing telling him. You are doing the right thing now.
> 
> The best time to plant a seed is 10 years ago. Well that time has gone. The second best time? Today.
> 
> All you can do is your best from now onwards. Keep it up.


This is great advice. He does not think you love him. He feels he is not enough for you. His self respect is gone.

Fight to save your marriage. Keep going to him and if he pushes you away, respect that. Do not beg or cry. Tell him you respect his wishes but you are not letting go and will not go away without a fight. Tell him you are sorry every time you talk to him.

Start working on you but let him know you are working on you for him and your family.

It is a very good sign he came back. Become the wife he will regret giving up.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

jim123 said:


> This is great advice. He does not think you love him. He feels he is not enough for you. His self respect is gone.
> 
> Fight to save your marriage. Keep going to him and if he pushes you away, respect that. Do not beg or cry. Tell him you respect his wishes but you are not letting go and will not go away without a fight. Tell him you are sorry every time you talk to him.
> 
> Start working on you but let him know you are working on you for him and your family.
> 
> It is a very good sign he came back. Become the wife he will regret giving up.


Better advise than what I posted. Keep at it UAP
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

jim123 said:


> Become the wife he will regret giving up.


Become the wife he can trust. He still loves you. That's why he is hurting so much. What became the casualty of your affair was TRUST. He doesn't trust you anymore. He doesn't have a reason to. A marriage is built on 20% love and 80% trust. Only 20% of your marriage is left. Work on restoring the 80% of your marriage.


----------



## jim123

WhiteRaven said:


> Become the wife he can trust. He still loves you. That's why he is hurting so much. What became the casualty of your affair was TRUST. He doesn't trust you anymore. He doesn't have a reason to. A marriage is built on 20% love and 80% trust. Only 20% of your marriage is left. Work on restoring the 80% of your marriage.


Great post!


----------



## WhiteRaven

jim123 said:


> Great post!


Thanks.


----------



## jim123

WhiteRaven said:


> Thanks.


Anyone who is going through what you are going through and makes a post of compassion is a great person.

Good luck to you and I know it will work out because of the type of person you are.


----------



## Cynthia

Many people have told you to give your husband space.
You did the right thing in telling him. You knew he might divorce you over it. Now it is time for you to work on you. You cannot do anything about your husband, except be available when/if he wants to talk. Making life hard for him at home, by crying and carrying on is going to make things worse. You are expecting something from him to meet your emotional needs, but you have lost that from him. He cannot meet your emotional needs due to your choice. However, there are things you can do. 
You can immediately get into individual counseling.
Do you have a girlfriend or a close relative that you can confide in who will help you through this hellacious time?
You can join a support group or a Celebrate Recovery group.
Attend to your spiritual needs. Pray, read the Bible, and if you have thought about attending church, now would be a good time to find a church and begin attending regularly.
Read books on subjects that speak into your life in a positive way.
Exercise regularly
Make sure you are eating a healthy diet
Draw close to your children to nurture them and help them through this difficult time they are experiencing. Tell them what they need to know according to their age level. Letting them know that you did something bad that hurt daddy and you are very sorry will help give them context to what is going on.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

PhillyGuy13 said:


> UAP- your husband is home. Give him his space, do not badger him. Let him know if/when he is ready to talk that you are available, anytime anyplace. Answer any and all questions he may have fully and truthfully.
> 
> You should also begin therapy for yourself. Get to the root of how and why you succumbed to a ONS so quickly. A young mother should not be consuming so much alcohol. And certainly not so much where you have no inhibitions. Use therapy to get to the root of these actions. Work on you. This will help show your husband your remorse, more than tears and begging will.
> 
> You will also need to cut yourself off from the other man, and any friends that enabled this situation. If you have classes with the OM, you will need to withdraw from those classes. Check with an academic advisor to see how a withdrawal affects your academic progress and /or any financial aid you receive. If it has an adverse affect, be honest with the academics advisor. It could be possible to take incompletes and finish over the summer. Depends on if your school takes attendance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hubby was home but left a few hours ago. I tried asking him where he was going but he’s not talking to him. I have started to give him his space. I sent him a text saying whenever he was ready to talk I would be here to answer any question he had. 

I would like to clear something up. A lot of posters think I might be some kind of a party girl, which is a fair assumption given what happened. But I’m really not that much a party girl. I usually never go to any clubs or parties without hubby and the times I do go it usually with my sister, SIL’s for most I don’t drink because I play to role of DD. That night I was with another group of friends that I meet on campus. In all honesty the way that night played out was very out of character for me it really was a weird not for me. As for the IC I will start this Monday. I already talk to the counselor over the phone. She had a lot of good recommendations.

I haven’t talked to My AP since that night and I won’t talk to him again. I only have one class with my AP this semester. I might have to withdrawal from the class anyway since I didn’t take my midterm exam. Same goes for the other class. I missed most of my classes the week that followed what happened with other man and the classes I did go to the week to take the exam I’m pretty sure I filed them. I plan to talk to my advisor tomorrow and see what my options are. That night mess everything up and only my marriage


----------



## m0nk

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My AP is single well at least that’s what he has told me. He could have been lying and what I have read about affairs the OM usually does lie so who knows. I don’t really care he’s not my concern. As for my husband getting revenge on my AP I don’t really care what he does to him as long as it won’t land him in any kind of legal trouble or any kind trouble for that matter. Last thing I want is for my husband jeopardize his future and his career because of what I did. If my husband wants to do something with someone else then I can’t really stop him although I would rather he not do anything like that just the thought of it hurts like crazy’s. I know that’s hypocritical of me but that’s how I really feel. If my husband does go the divorce route then I want it to be easy as possible for the both of us. I would like to make it as fair as possible for me, kids and him. I never understood why anybody would want to take their spouses to the cleaners it usually always the kids that suffer because of it.


I'm glad you mentioned the children and his career. I think the best course of action is to project ourwards; you know what you did is WRONG, so surround yourself with what is RIGHT: your family and your health. Focus on being a good mom and keeping the dwelling a comfortable place for your entire family. Be ready at any moment to talk with your BS and show him you care by being PRESENT, but give him his space. He deserves that. Your children also deserve for their mom to be PRESENT in their lives too; they're not simply byproducts. 

Do your best and keep us posted, please. 

To the other posters who argue with one another, it's ANNOYING reading through all the sh!t to TRY to get to the point of the matter when everyone is muckraking. The point of the matter is the OP and her family. Isn't that why everyone's here? Seems to me the focus is in danger of being lost...just my opinion.


----------



## m0nk

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Hubby was home but left a few hours ago. I tried asking him where he was going but he’s not talking to him. I have started to give him his space. I sent him a text saying whenever he was ready to talk I would be here to answer any question he had.
> 
> I would like to clear something up. A lot of posters think I might be some kind of a party girl, which is a fair assumption given what happened. But I’m really not that much a party girl. I usually never go to any clubs or parties without hubby and the times I do go it usually with my sister, SIL’s for most I don’t drink because I play to role of DD. That night I was with another group of friends that I meet on campus. In all honesty the way that night played out was very out of character for me it really was a weird not for me. As for the IC I will start this Monday. I already talk to the counselor over the phone. She had a lot of good recommendations.
> 
> I haven’t talked to My AP since that night and I won’t talk to him again. I only have one class with my AP this semester. I might have to withdrawal from the class anyway since I didn’t take my midterm exam. Same goes for the other class. I missed most of my classes the week that followed what happened with other man and the classes I did go to the week to take the exam I’m pretty sure I filed them. I plan to talk to my advisor tomorrow and see what my options are. That night mess everything up and only my marriage


I support you withdrawing from the class your AP is in--that is a smart decision. I would talk with the professors FIRST and see what can be arranged. Don't give up on your education before contacting your professors and seeing how they might be flexible. Talk with them in person, not via email. See if they have office hours, and be open with them about family problems. Don't spill all your feelings, but explain things have been difficult and that you have children, and that you are willing to come in to make up exams or ask for extra credit. Professors know people are human and sometimes LIFE happens. It can't hurt. I'd talk with the professors first, and I would drop that class. You could try asking the professor of the class your AP is in if there is a distance learning class. Just a few thoughts. 

I think that SINGLE text to your BS is fine, but no more until he contacts you. I'm glad you're giving him space. It probably took a lot of courage for him to come home. Keep us posted...


----------



## Cynthia

I agree that speaking to your instructors might help you keep in class. You may also be able to change your schedule so you are taking the same classes at different times so you are no longer class with the AP. If you tell your instructors (without naming him) that you have a serious personal problem with one of the other students that you cannot discuss, they might help you. Talking to an adviser first might be help.
This has not ruined your whole life. It has certainly ruined some things and changed your life as you know it, but every day is a new day. Make every day better.


----------



## jim123

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Hubby was home but left a few hours ago. I tried asking him where he was going but he’s not talking to him. I have started to give him his space. I sent him a text saying whenever he was ready to talk I would be here to answer any question he had.
> 
> I would like to clear something up. A lot of posters think I might be some kind of a party girl, which is a fair assumption given what happened. But I’m really not that much a party girl. I usually never go to any clubs or parties without hubby and the times I do go it usually with my sister, SIL’s for most I don’t drink because I play to role of DD. That night I was with another group of friends that I meet on campus. In all honesty the way that night played out was very out of character for me it really was a weird not for me. As for the IC I will start this Monday. I already talk to the counselor over the phone. She had a lot of good recommendations.
> 
> I haven’t talked to My AP since that night and I won’t talk to him again. I only have one class with my AP this semester. I might have to withdrawal from the class anyway since I didn’t take my midterm exam. Same goes for the other class. I missed most of my classes the week that followed what happened with other man and the classes I did go to the week to take the exam I’m pretty sure I filed them. I plan to talk to my advisor tomorrow and see what my options are. That night mess everything up and only my marriage


Do not continue to focus on the A with him. Text that you love him and you want a future. Text that you are dropping the class. Text that you are going to an IC.

Realize that this may be what you consider out of character but the fact is the first chance you had to cheat you did. What happened is what you wanted to happen.

You may have throw away your marriage for some one you do not love nor have a future with. There is something within you that did all of this. Find that something.


----------



## manfromlamancha

UAP, you have done all the right things so far. Here is my take on this:

He is only just starting to go through his own personal hell so absolutely you have to give him space. You cannot drive, control or really change his process - only he can.

I did not think that you were a party girl - some party girls are very street wise and scheming/planning - I actually think that you were very misguided and gave into these urges too easily. And are now paying the price for your actions.

I have been reading a very similar story on a different board and can say that I was impressed with the way that lady is handling it. You are starting to demonstrate the same traits which is a good sign. She has been divorced now but is still working on getting her family back together again (so thats how far this can go just so that you are prepared).

I agree with others telling you that while you should be available to tell him anything he wants to know, you should stay off the affair topic unless he brings it up. However, in actions, nothing works better than showing him that you are remorseful. It is one thing to say you are but a whole different ball game to show him through actions without being told to: stuff like quitting the classes where the AP is, writing NC letters and including your husband in the process if he would like, giving him all your passwords and access to your communications, calling/texting him from wherever you are everyday/all the time to show him that you mean to be transparent (even if he doesn't ask for it), reminding him that you love him and doing things for him to show him this: these are all powerful things that you can do.

And never justify the affair, never take up for the AP in any way (direct or indirect) - just own it and show the remorse. Make sure that he understands that you are there for him and will try and make life comfortable for him whatever his decision and that you understand that it is his decision not yours.

Good luck!


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Hubby was home but left a few hours ago. I tried asking him where he was going but he’s not talking to him. I have started to give him his space. I sent him a text saying whenever he was ready to talk I would be here to answer any question he had.
> 
> I would like to clear something up. A lot of posters think I might be some kind of a party girl, which is a fair assumption given what happened. But I’m really not that much a party girl. I usually never go to any clubs or parties without hubby and the times I do go it usually with my sister, SIL’s for most I don’t drink because I play to role of DD. That night I was with another group of friends that I meet on campus. In all honesty the way that night played out was very out of character for me it really was a weird not for me. As for the IC I will start this Monday. I already talk to the counselor over the phone. She had a lot of good recommendations.
> 
> I haven’t talked to My AP since that night and I won’t talk to him again. I only have one class with my AP this semester. I might have to withdrawal from the class anyway since I didn’t take my midterm exam. Same goes for the other class. I missed most of my classes the week that followed what happened with other man and the classes I did go to the week to take the exam I’m pretty sure I filed them. I plan to talk to my advisor tomorrow and see what my options are. That night mess everything up and only my marriage


OP; you need to prepare yourself- your husband might just need space, but his actions are also that of a man who is planning to divorce. If this happens, understand you owe him a fair and respectful divorce. Every man has a different threshold of what he can handle, and you would need to treat him with respect should he choose to divorce- he has done nothing wrong.

For the sake of cultural understanding, what country are you from? I apologize if Ive misinterpreted as you might just be upset, but I see patterns in your English that suggest it is your second language. Dont worry, its much better than my Spanish... Latin American countries are usually much less forgiving of infidelity (by women) than in the "West" (which encompasses Europe, Canada, US, Australia, etc); we could probably give you much more accurate advice if we knew where you were from. Disclosing this is of course your choice... **EDIT** Consider that the VAST majority of posters here are from the US, Europe, Britain, and Canada; if you are not from one of those countries, you would do well to frame our advice in the context of your culture.

If his disposition is still cold, get ready...


----------



## carmen ohio

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My AP is single well at least that’s what he has told me. He could have been lying and what I have read about affairs the OM usually does lie so who knows. I don’t really care he’s not my concern. As for my husband getting revenge on my AP I don’t really care what he does to him as long as it won’t land him in any kind of legal trouble or any kind trouble for that matter. Last thing I want is for my husband jeopardize his future and his career because of what I did. If my husband wants to do something with someone else then I can’t really stop him although I would rather he not do anything like that just the thought of it hurts like crazy’s. I know that’s hypocritical of me but that’s how I really feel. *If my husband does go the divorce route then I want it to be easy as possible for the both of us. I would like to make it as fair as possible for me, kids and him. I never understood why anybody would want to take their spouses to the cleaners it usually always the kids that suffer because of it.*



Dear UAP,

I do not have much sympathy for you, given that it is you who made the conscious decision to cheat on your husband, but neither do I wish you ill. What I hope is that your poor husband, who by your own admission does not deserve in any way the pain, anguish and mental trauma you have inflicted on him, goes on to have a happy life, be it with our without you as he chooses.

I am intrigued, however, by the *(bolded)* statement above from your previous post. First, I find it fascinating -- and perhaps revealing of your true priorities in life -- that you list yourself first and your husband last in expressing your desire that a divorce be "fair." I presume you realize that "fairness" is in the eye of the beholder and that, if your husband decides to end your marriage, what you and he want with respect to the distribution of property, child custody and alimony/maintenance will likely differ. Do I take from the ordering of your list that, if your husband were to offer you a divorce settlement that he considered fair but that you did not, you would fight for a better settlement and, if this is the case, wouldn't that mean that you had decided to "take him to the cleaners" (or at least closer to the cleaners than he would like to be) despite your protest to the contrary?

IMO, the only '"fair" divorce in a situation such as yours (where the BS was blameless and the WS had no excuse for having cheated) would we one in which the terms of the divorce were determined by the BS. Would you agree that this would be a fair outcome, or do you feel that the WS is entitled to get what he or she considers fair, even if this requires taking the BS to court?

I think your answer to the foregoing question, should you decide to provide it, will be highly indicative of the degree to which you are truly remorseful for your adulterous behavior.

Looking forward to reading your answer.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

carmen ohio said:


> Dear UAP,
> 
> I do not have much sympathy for you, given that it is you who made the conscious decision to cheat on your husband, but neither do I wish you ill. What I hope is that your poor husband, who by your own admission does not deserve in any way the pain, anguish and mental trauma you have inflicted on him, goes on to have a happy life, be it with our without you as he chooses.
> 
> I am intrigued, however, by the *(bolded)* statement above from your previous post. First, I find it fascinating -- and perhaps revealing of your true priorities in life -- that you list yourself first and your husband last in expressing your desire that a divorce be "fair." I presume you realize that "fairness" is in the eye of the beholder and that, if your husband decides to end your marriage, what you want with respect to the distribution of property, child custody and alimony/maintenance will likely differ. Do I take from the ordering of your list that, if your husband were to offer you a divorce settlement that he considered fair but that you did not, you would fight for a better settlement and, if this is the case, wouldn't that mean that you had decided to "take him to the cleaners" (or at least closer to the cleaners than he would like to be) despite your protest to the contrary?
> 
> IMO, the only '"fair" divorce in a situation such as yours (where the BS was blameless and the WS had no excuse for having cheated) would we one in which the terms of the divorce were determined by the BS. Would you agree that this would be a fair outcome, or do you feel that the WS is entitled to get what he or she considers fair, even if this requires taking the BS to court?
> 
> I think your answer to the foregoing question, should you decide to provide it, will be highly indicative of the degree to which you are truly remorseful for your adulterous behavior.
> 
> Looking forward to reading your answer.


I noticed this too, but I am trying to give her the benefit of the doubt; I believe English is her second language. Despite moments of good flow on her part, her English has patterns that at times suggest shes not entirely mastered the language. For example, I might very well make the same mistake if I was trying to explain such a concept on a Spanish forum...

I took a different path than you in my attempt to ascertain aspects of her character, but I think her answering both of our questions would help to clear a lot up. 

For right now, I will try to reserve judgment and assume it is merely missed English semantics on her part, but I too am concerned with her wording..


----------



## Deejo

This thread has been moderated.

Heavily.

If you think that what you have to say is important, and you have a right to say it, while making veiled attacks at the OP, let me assure you ...

It isn't important, and you don't have the right to say it. The post will be removed and you will be banned.

Choose to reply to THIS post in-thread, and your post will be removed and you will be banned.

Thanks


----------



## Cynthia

I think texting your husband anything at all is going to create further conflict. He has told you to leave him alone. If you don't, he will likely see this as you not respecting him at all. Do what he asks. Leave him alone. If and when he is ready, he will come to you. He needs time to process the bomb. Anything else is just irritating and making you look like you are needy and asking something of him. That is the last place you need to be.
The place you need to be is in a position to give him everything that he asks for and to be there when/if he needs you. Anything you need should come from outside sources like the list I gave you earlier about how to have your needs met.
You can do this. It's hard, but it will only make you a better person.
Edit to add: Texting him about what you are doing to make things better will likely seem like begging and trying to get him to influence him in a way that he does not want to be influenced right now.


----------



## carmen ohio

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I noticed this too, but I am trying to give her the benefit of the doubt; I believe English is her second language. Despite moments of good flow on her part, her English has patterns that at times suggest shes not entirely mastered the language. For example, I might very well make the same mistake if I was trying to explain such a concept on a Spanish forum...
> 
> I took a different path than you in my attempt to ascertain aspects of her character, but I think her answering both of our questions would help to clear a lot up.
> 
> For right now, I will try to reserve judgment and assume it is merely missed English semantics on her part, but I too am concerned with her wording..


OptimisticPessimist,

Thanks for your comment but I believe that this is more than a matter of semantics or language skills. IMO, a cheating spouse who was genuinely remorseful would feel that he or she only deserved what the betrayed spouse was prepared to give. The mere fact that the OP threw her desires into the equation (regardless of the order) says to me that she feels some degree of entitlement and, if this is the case, then I would likely judge her to be "sorry" for the consequences of her actions rather than remorseful for hurting her husband.

Of course, no one can look into another's soul to see what the other truly feels. Therefore, we have to base our judgments on what others say and do. If a thief were to say he was willing to return some of the money he stole, as opposed to all of it and more, I would not judge him genuinely remorseful. Likewise, I am skeptical of the degree of remorse of a WS who fights for a better divorce settlement than his or her BS offers.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

carmen ohio said:


> OptimisticPessimist,
> 
> Thanks for your comment but I believe that this is more than a matter of semantics or language skills. IMO, a cheating spouse who was genuinely remorseful would feel that he or she only deserved what the betrayed spouse was prepared to give. The mere fact that the OP threw her desires into the equation (regardless of the order) says to me that she feels some degree of entitlement and, if this is the case, then I would likely judge her to be "sorry" for the consequences of her actions rather than remorseful for hurting her husband.
> 
> Of course, no one can look into another's soul to see what the other truly feels. Therefore, we have to base our judgments on what others say and do. If a thief were to say he was willing to return some of the money he stole, as opposed to all of it and more, I would not judge him genuinely remorseful. Likewise, I am skeptical of the degree of remorse of a WS who fights for a better divorce settlement than his or her BS offers.


Agree to disagree 

If in fact that is what she means (that she would fight for beyond what he gave her in divorce), I agree with you 100% that it is not genuine remorse and thus requires more work on her part in terms of perspective modification. I should acknowledge that depending on whether the kids go with her, him, or shared between both (of which I am not sure as I believe she lives in Latin America), they have to be taken care of.

However, and perhaps im being naive, I await clarification from the OP (and a demonstration in the future to prove it isnt just words) before I come to any conclusion on her mentality.


----------



## thummper

Seems like we should be offering possibilities and at least some encouragement to this lady who, knowing she was going to get excoriated by a large number of people, came to us for help and advice. Now it seems as though a few folks here are pouring over her posts and reading all kinds of translations into what this admittedly non-English-speaking person is saying. Semantics aside, what are we doing to help her, or do we just keep on pouring more coals on her head. I just don't understand the depth of negativity I'm seeing here.


----------



## MattMatt

They are both hurting. I think that marriage counselling/guidance could be of benefit.

My best wishes to both UAP and her husband. It sucks, badly, to be either of them at the moment.


----------



## Hurtin_Still

*Re: Re: I told him everything. Please can someone help I need it more than ever*



MattMatt said:


> They are both hurting. I think that marriage counselling/guidance could be of benefit.
> 
> My best wishes to both UAP and her husband. It sucks, badly, to be either of them at the moment.


......the pain that permeates this thread ....both of the OP ....and that of her spouse ....is agonizing to reflect upon.


----------



## MattMatt

Hurtin_Still said:


> ......the pain that permeates this thread ....both of the OP ....and that of her spouse ....is agonizing to reflect upon.


As I mentioned before, I have been in both positions. Not good places to be.


----------



## carmen ohio

thummper said:


> Seems like we should be offering possibilities and at least some encouragement to this lady who, knowing she was going to get excoriated by a large number of people, came to us for help and advice. Now it seems as though a few folks here are pouring over her posts and reading all kinds of translations into what this admittedly non-English-speaking person is saying. Semantics aside, what are we doing to help her, or do we just keep on pouring more coals on her head. I just don't understand the depth of negativity I'm seeing here.


thummper,

I do not wish to offer "encouragement" to the OP, nor do I accept that it is my obligation as a poster on TAM/CWI to do so. At the same time, I wish the OP no harm and therefore have not criticized her for what she did. I am interested in learning what she actually feels about what she did (whether genuine remorse for betraying her husband or apoplexy over the injury she has done to her own and her children's futures) because, IMO, one needs to know this in order to give her the proper advice.

Posters on TAM/CWI tend to respond to WSs, and the men especially tend to respond to WWs, in one of two (extreme) ways, they either excoriate them for their adultery or they fall all over themselves trying to help them save their marriages. IMO, neither is the correct response. Rather, one should try to uncover the flaws in the WS's character that led to the infidelity and then give the WS advice on how to correct it.

Whether the OP and her BH remain married or not is, by my way of thinking, a matter for the BH alone to decide. Without knowing more about what actually happened (we have only the OP's account) and how the BS feels, I am not comfortable helping her save her marriage because it may not be in the best interest of her BH. If I knew more about the two of them, and in particular that the BH wished to remain married to the OP, I would be inclined to help her (as I have tried to help other couples who are striving to overcome adultery).

In the end, my sympathies lie with the OP's BH. Unfortunately, we do not have the opportunity to help him because, apparently and or whatever reason, the OP has chosen not to direct him to this site. I wish she would.


----------



## Chris989

carmen ohio said:


> thummper,
> 
> I do not wish to offer "encouragement" to the OP, nor do I accept that it is my obligation as a poster on TAM/CWI to do so. At the same time, I wish the OP no harm and therefore have not criticized her for what she did. I am interested in learning what she actually feels about what she did (whether genuine remorse for betraying her husband or apoplexy over the injury she has done to her own and her children's futures) because, IMO, one needs to know this in order to give her the proper advice.
> 
> Posters on TAM/CWI tend to respond to WSs, and the men especially tend to respond to WWs, in one of two (extreme) ways, they either excoriate them for their adultery or they fall all over themselves trying to help them save their marriages. IMO, neither is the correct response. Rather, one should try to uncover the flaws in the WS's character that led to the infidelity and then give the WS advice on how to correct it.
> 
> Whether the OP and her BH remain married or not is, by my way of thinking, a matter for the BH alone to decide. Without knowing more about what actually happened (we have only the OP's account) and how the BS feels, I am not comfortable helping her save her marriage because it may not be in the best interest of her BH. If I knew more about the two of them, and in particular that the BH wished to remain married to the OP, I would be inclined to help her (as I have tried to help other couples who are striving to overcome adultery).
> 
> In the end, my sympathies lie with the OP's BH. Unfortunately, we do not have the opportunity to help him because, apparently and or whatever reason, the OP has chosen not to direct him to this site. I wish she would.


Perhaps she has. Perhaps, like many people, using an internet forum is not part of his coping mechanism.

I am guessing that, by far the majority of people on here found it under their own steam.

Apart from anything else, a betrayed spouse will be (rightly) very suspicious of an internet site that his or her cheating spouse tells them about.

As far as the rest goes; my belief is that we should:

- take people at face value (what the heck else can you do)
- support marriage where we can
- help those that ask for help

Everyone has done bad things in their past. Who are we to say who is "deserving" of "our help".

Seriously, I am not religious but that bloke Jesus had a lot of very relevant stuff to say about these situations and it would do no harm to follow his teachings in the absence of any others.


----------



## MattMatt

Chris989 said:


> Perhaps she has. Perhaps, like many people, using an internet forum is not part of his coping mechanism.
> 
> I am guessing that, by far the majority of people on here found it under their own steam.
> 
> Apart from anything else, a betrayed spouse will be (rightly) very suspicious of an internet site that his or her cheating spouse tells them about.
> 
> As far as the rest goes; my belief is that we should:
> 
> - take people at face value (what the heck else can you do)
> - support marriage where we can
> - help those that ask for help
> 
> Everyone has done bad things in their past. Who are we to say who is "deserving" of "our help".
> 
> Seriously, I am not religious but that bloke Jesus had a lot of very relevant stuff to say about these situations and it would do no harm to follow his teachings in the absence of any others.


:iagree:


----------



## Decorum

Dyokemm said:


> "Honesty is NOT always the best policy, as she has woefully discovered."
> 
> Cannot disagree more on this point.


:iagree:

Yep its a little early to chalk this one up to "see I told you so".


UAP I think Chris and others make a valuable point to show an earnestness to be there for him without crowding him, and showing remorsefulness, taking responsibility.

Be there, he will see it on your face and in your eyes. Whatever it takes, good for you for going to IC.

Take care!


----------



## Csquare

UAP,

How are your twins doing? They must be picking up that things are not right with you and their dad, with his absences and maybe not talking with you. This is probably a scary time for them.

Please focus on tending them, especially since your h is needing space right now. Let them know that you and their dad love them and that they will be okay.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

carmen ohio said:


> Dear UAP,
> 
> I do not have much sympathy for you, given that it is you who made the conscious decision to cheat on your husband, but neither do I wish you ill. What I hope is that your poor husband, who by your own admission does not deserve in any way the pain, anguish and mental trauma you have inflicted on him, goes on to have a happy life, be it with our without you as he chooses.
> 
> I am intrigued, however, by the *(bolded)* statement above from your previous post. First, I find it fascinating -- and perhaps revealing of your true priorities in life -- that you list yourself first and your husband last in expressing your desire that a divorce be "fair." I presume you realize that "fairness" is in the eye of the beholder and that, if your husband decides to end your marriage, what you and he want with respect to the distribution of property, child custody and alimony/maintenance will likely differ. Do I take from the ordering of your list that, if your husband were to offer you a divorce settlement that he considered fair but that you did not, you would fight for a better settlement and, if this is the case, wouldn't that mean that you had decided to "take him to the cleaners" (or at least closer to the cleaners than he would like to be) despite your protest to the contrary?
> 
> IMO, the only '"fair" divorce in a situation such as yours (where the BS was blameless and the WS had no excuse for having cheated) would we one in which the terms of the divorce were determined by the BS. Would you agree that this would be a fair outcome, or do you feel that the WS is entitled to get what he or she considers fair, even if this requires taking the BS to court?
> 
> I think your answer to the foregoing question, should you decide to provide it, will be highly indicative of the degree to which you are truly remorseful for your adulterous behavior.
> 
> Looking forward to reading your answer.


 Well first off I think you might be reading too much into how I put thing in the statement above. 

If my husband does decides to divorce over this then that’s his choice and he has every right to do so if that’s what he wants. What meant by fair had nothing to with anything financial as in alimony, property or anything like that. What I meant by fair was how we would share custody. I want our kids to see us equally so I would want 50/50 custody. If my husband doesn’t see that as fair then yes I would fight. That does not mean I would take him to the cleaners. When it comes to alimony or any other kind of support I don’t want. My husband has done more than enough for me when it comes to anything like that. I wouldn’t ask for more. 

To answer your last question yes I do agree with you to a certain degree. In a case similar to mine I do believe the BS should be the one to determine what’s fair as along as it does not affect the children in a negative way or the ability of WS to be a good parent.


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## Gabriel

I don't have the energy to read through it all to see if this has already been said, but this sounds like Tears' story, part 2. I hope the result is different, but it seems like it won't be. 

He has gone dark and that usually doesn't mean R. 

OP, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

OptimisticPessimist 

To answers your questions. Yes Spanish is my first language. I was born in the states but I moved to Spain when I was 5. Parents moved back to the states when I was 14. My mom is originally from South America and my dad is originally from Spain. Both of my parents speak Spanish as their first language but they both can speak English they just choose not unless they need too.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Csquare

Thankful my parents where nice enough to watch them for the last few days. They haven’t been around to see what’s been going on so far. Although I do think them do know something’s wrong. And to make things worse my husband still hasn’t come home yet I have been waiting for him but I doubt he coming home tonight.


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## Pepper123

UAP- deseo que tu puedes encontrar el amor que has perdido. Yo soy pensando de ti. Mucho gusto.


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## manfromlamancha

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> OptimisticPessimist
> 
> To answers your questions. Yes Spanish is my first language. I was born in the states but I moved to Spain when I was 5. Parents moved back to the states when I was 14. My mom is originally from South America and my dad is originally from Spain. Both of my parents speak Spanish as their first language but they both can speak English they just choose not unless they need too.


Is your husband Spanish/Hispanic too?


----------



## DarkHoly

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Well first off I think you might be reading too much into how I put thing in the statement above.
> 
> If my husband does decides to divorce over this then that’s his choice and he has every right to do so if that’s what he wants. What meant by fair had nothing to with anything financial as in alimony, property or anything like that. What I meant by fair was how we would share custody. I want our kids to see us equally so I would want 50/50 custody. If my husband doesn’t see that as fair then yes I would fight. That does not mean I would take him to the cleaners. When it comes to alimony or any other kind of support I don’t want. My husband has done more than enough for me when it comes to anything like that. I wouldn’t ask for more.
> 
> To answer your last question yes I do agree with you to a certain degree. In a case similar to mine I do believe the BS should be the one to determine what’s fair as along as it does not affect the children in a negative way or the ability of WS to be a good parent.


I don't think anyone can blame you for these feelings. The bond between parent and child is an exceedingly thick cord. May I gently ask what you believe about the relationship between being a good spouse and a good parent? Do you believe they go hand in hand, or do you believe they can be separate and compartmentalized?


----------



## carmen ohio

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Well first off I think you might be reading too much into how I put thing in the statement above.
> 
> If my husband does decides to divorce over this then that’s his choice and he has every right to do so if that’s what he wants. What meant by fair had nothing to with anything financial as in alimony, property or anything like that. What I meant by fair was how we would share custody. I want our kids to see us equally so I would want 50/50 custody. If my husband doesn’t see that as fair then yes I would fight. That does not mean I would take him to the cleaners. When it comes to alimony or any other kind of support I don’t want. My husband has done more than enough for me when it comes to anything like that. I wouldn’t ask for more.
> 
> To answer your last question yes I do agree with you to a certain degree. In a case similar to mine I do believe the BS should be the one to determine what’s fair as along as it does not affect the children in a negative way or the ability of WS to be a good parent.


Dear UAP,

Thanks for answering my question; that took courage. Your answer (that, despite what you have done, your children still need you in their lives and that you would fight for this, while allowing your husband to determine the other terms of a divorce) is solomon-like. I couldn't agree with it more.

I believe that you are confronted with two challenges as a result of your infidelity: what to do for your husband and what to do for yourself. Let me speak to them in turn.

You have received good advice as to what your husband is going through at the moment and I believe you understand that it will take a long time, years even, for him to recover from this. With respect to your husband, you should make it your goal to help him heal as quickly as possible. You should not make it your goal to restore your marriage (although, by concentrating on doing what is best for him, it is my opinion that you will have the best chance of saving your marriage). I believe the best way to help him is the following:

- respecting his desire at the moment for privacy by not pestering him when he is home to speak with your or badgering him with texts and phone calls when he is away from you while, at the same time, letting him know that you are willing to speak to him whenever he wishes;

- doing whatever you can to remove burdens from him, such as in regard to caring for your children and attending to matters around the home;

- letting him know that you are sorry for what you have done and that, while it is your fervent desire to save your marriage, you are prepared to do whatever he decides with respect making things right, even if this means a divorce (I would consider writing him a letter to this effect);

- when he starts to speak to you again, remaining calm and composed, being completely truthful about what you did, answering all of his questions, acknowledging that there is no excuse for what you did, telling him you are sorry without over-dramatizing your apology and reiterating that you will do whatever he needs you to do to make things right; and, most importantly

- being prepared to answer the ultimate question: why did you do it?

I believe that your answer to that question is extremely important and that the response that wayward spouses often give ("I don't know") is inadequate. You need to think hard about this and to be honest with yourself about what happened in order to be able to answer the question truthfully. Based on what you have told us about that night, you had many opportunities to avoid doing what you did but, instead, at every turn, you escalated the encounter from something casual to something increasingly intimate. If you are honest with yourself, I believe you will realize that what happened is what you, on that evening, chose to give in to your desires rather than to honor your marriage vow. If this is what happened, then you need to be willing to admit it to both yourself and your husband.

Now let me turn to what you need to do for yourself.

- First and foremost, you need to maintain your health by eating properly and getting rest, since you need to be physically strong to get through this.

- Second, you need to be the best mother you can be since, for now anyway, your husband will likely not be as good a father as he was. This means not only attending to your children's physical needs but also providing them with an honest and age-appropriate explanation for what is happening between their mother and father.

- Third, you need to control your emotions and maintain your appearance, not only for your children's and husband's sake but for yourself. Yes, you have done something wrong, but you must not allow it to destroy your sense of value and purpose. It is important, therefore, for you to continue to respect yourself and one way to do this is to present yourself to the world in a dignified and responsible manner.

- Fourth, you need to admit to yourself that you have a problem (perhaps a dgree of immaturity or a character flaw) that enabled you to cheat on your husband, you need to identify the problem, and then you need to overcome it. I understand that you have arranged counseling for yourself and this is a good first step.

- Fifth, if you are truly sorry for what you have done (as I believe you are), you need to seek forgiveness, including forgiving yourself. If you are a Christian, this means asking for and accepting God's forgiveness, doing all that you can to help those whom you have wronged and avoiding whatever it was that led you to do wrong.

As I said in one of my previous posts, it is not my wish that you save your marriage because, IMO, that is something your husband needs to decide for himself. But it is my wish that, whatever he decides, both he and you go on to have happy, healthy and fulfilling lives and therefore I hope my advice is of some help to you.

Finally, if you haven't already, I would urge you to let your husband know about this site so that we can give him help and support. There are a number of threads on TAM/CWI involving both the WS and the BS who are trying to reconcile and, from what I have seen, the support they have received here has benefited their efforts to rebuild their marriages.


----------



## Decorum

UAP,
I can tell that in the face of the reality of the situation you have been forced to become more objective and some of the panic is gone.

Thats ok, you will be more able to face the truth and take good decisions.

One of the things I think you need to face is this, I know you genuinely care for him, but for some time leading up to your affair you have lost your love and respect for your husband.

You could have kept it alive but you undervalued it and let it lapse. 

Right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cynthia

Decorum said:


> UAP,
> One of the things I think you need to face is this, I know you genuinely care for him, but for some time leading up to your affair you have lost your love and respect for your husband.
> 
> You could have kept it alive but you undervalued it and let it lapse.
> 
> Right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a common issue that people do not notice and when confronted with the cold reality have a hard time admitting it. Take a good hard look and admit to the truth. If a spouse is willing to cheat, it is a complete lack of love and respect for her spouse. Acknowledging and dealing with that fact will help you to overcome whatever got you to that place.


----------



## EI

CynthiaDe said:


> This is a common issue that people do not notice and when confronted with the cold reality have a hard time admitting it. Take a good hard look and admit to the truth.* If a spouse is willing to cheat, it is a complete lack of love and respect for her spouse.* Acknowledging and dealing with that fact will help you to overcome whatever got you to that place.


As a former WS, I couldn't agree with you more. For quite some time before my 15 month EA/PA, I had lost all respect and all "in love" feelings for my husband. I had made my husband very aware of that prior to and during my A. Those 15 months were filled with lies, deception, and betrayal. But, not with regard to my feelings for my BS. I wasn't professing my love to and sleeping with my xAP, then coming home and professing my love to and sleeping with my BS. The moment I stopped initiating any kind of intimacy with my husband, there was no longer any intimacy. That happened long before my A began. We hadn't even shared a bedroom for quite some time prior to my EA/PA. 

We are now 22 months into reconciliation. My BS, actually, says that it has helped him in our reconciliation to know that I wasn't "pretending" to love him and pretending to be happy in our marriage before and during my A. So, now, when I tell him that I love him, he can more easily trust that I do. When we share emotional and physical intimacy, he trusts that he is the only man who I am sharing intimacy with.


----------



## Paladin

Decorum said:


> One of the things I think you need to face is this, I know you genuinely care for him, but for some time leading up to your affair you have lost your love and respect for your husband.
> 
> You could have kept it alive but you undervalued it and let it lapse.
> 
> Right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





CynthiaDe said:


> This is a common issue that people do not notice and when confronted with the cold reality have a hard time admitting it.... ...If a spouse is willing to cheat, it is a complete lack of love and respect for her spouse.


These statements represent a very binary outlook on a multifaceted issue. However, since the attempts to discuss alternative points of view about the motivation for committing infidelity essentially derailed the thread and required intervention, I'll try and re-frame the points in a more clinical fashion.

Affairs and drug addiction have some very striking similarities, primarily in how both influence the release and re-uptake of dopamine, and the significant physiological changes that take place in the pleasure/reward systems of the brain when all the release, re-uptake, and eventually down regulation of dopamine occur. 

Anyone who has ever intimately dealt with a person suffering from major addiction can tell you that the personality changes, and more significantly for our example, the compartmentalization that occurs in the mind of the addict is incredibly difficult to understand by a person that is thinking rationally. 

In many cases while an addict is trying to rationalize getting another fix, his/her mind can convince them that they are in fact acting in a rational and socially acceptable way. Its almost like the doublespeak discussed in the book 1984.

In more than a few cases of infidelity, the WSs mind compartmentalizes to such an intense degree, that they actually believe that their actions will not harm their spouse or marriage. Some of them are incredibly shocked when the fog lifts and they reassess what has been happening, and actually see the devastation left in the wake of the dysfunction.

Sadly, the spouse may not have been a variable that was even considered or consciously thought about in any meaningful way when the choice to have the A is made.

It complicates the situation when a person can no longer point the finger and say "see you lost all love and respect for your spouse, thats why you cheated." The fact that the OPs brain could have easily compartmentalized everything around her to justify getting a "fix" should be enough of a reason to consider the motivations for having an A in more than binary or black/white terms.


----------



## weightlifter

OP. Ill just say this.

You are one of VERY few WW I have pulled for a good outcome.


----------



## Cynthia

The loss of love and respect is not why the person cheats. I agree that there can be an addictive aspect to adultery, but the activity is completely self-centered. There is no love or respect for the spouse when someone does that. I think that is an important factor to consider when working through this issues that led to the adulterous behavior and working through the aftermath.
The lack of love and respect does not cause the behavior, but had to be absent for the person to behave in that manner.


----------



## Cynthia

Yes, I don't want to take this thread off topic either.
There are different ways of looking at it, but either way, the act of adultery of lacking of any love or respect for the LS while they are engaged in that kind of activity and that has to be acknowledged in order to deal with it effectively.


----------



## 2asdf2

EI said:


> As a former WS, I couldn't agree with you more. For quite some time before my *15 month EA/PA*, I had lost all respect and all "in love" feelings for my husband. I had made my husband very aware of that prior to and during my A. Those 15 months were filled with lies, deception, and betrayal. But, not with regard to my feelings for my BS. I wasn't professing my love to and sleeping with my xAP, then coming home and professing my love to and sleeping with my BS. The moment I stopped initiating any kind of intimacy with my husband, there was no longer any intimacy. That happened long before my A began. We hadn't even shared a bedroom for quite some time prior to my EA/PA.
> 
> We are now 22 months into reconciliation. My BS, actually, says that it has helped him in our reconciliation to know that I wasn't "pretending" to love him and pretending to be happy in our marriage before and during my A. So, now, when I tell him that I love him, he can more easily trust that I do. When we share emotional and physical intimacy, he trusts that he is the only man who I am sharing intimacy with.


EI:

You know I like you immensely.

Do you see a difference between your fifteen months and UAP's one instance?


----------



## 2asdf2

CynthiaDe said:


> This is a common issue that people do not notice and when confronted with the cold reality have a hard time admitting it. Take a good hard look and admit to the truth. If a spouse is willing to cheat, it is a *complete lack of love and respect* for her spouse. Acknowledging and dealing with that fact will help you to overcome whatever got you to that place.


This was a drunken one-night affair.

Let's keep some perspective here.


----------



## Cynthia

2asdf2 said:


> This was a drunken one-night affair.
> 
> Let's keep some perspective here.


I won't take this off on a tangent. Suffice it to say that getting drunk is no excuse and I could say a lot about why not.


----------



## convert

^^ I believe op said he was friend for what at least one class.., one semester or more so there was EA before it went PA


----------



## Decorum

2asdf2 said:


> This was a drunken one-night affair.
> Let's keep some perspective here.


_Posted via Mobile Device_

No it was an on going EA that culminated in a DONS.


----------



## 2asdf2

CynthiaDe said:


> I won't take this off on a tangent. Suffice it to say that *getting drunk is no excuse* and I could say a lot about why not.


On this I agree. I am not excusing any of it.

I am saying is that there are degrees of betrayal, and this one is rather minimal.


----------



## 2asdf2

Decorum said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> No it was an on going EA that culminated in a DONS.


I must have missed that.


----------



## EI

Paladin said:


> These statements represent a very binary outlook on a multifaceted issue. However, since the attempts to discuss alternative points of view about the motivation for committing infidelity essentially derailed the thread and required intervention, I'll try and re-frame the points in a more clinical fashion.
> 
> 
> It complicates the situation when a person can no longer point the finger and say "see you lost all love and respect for your spouse, thats why you cheated." The fact that the OPs brain could have easily compartmentalized everything around her to justify getting a "fix" should be enough of a reason to consider the motivations for having an A in more than binary or black/white terms.


Small thread jack......

I'm glad that you shared this, Paladin, because it represents another very real side of this complex issue. I believe that there are many varying factors that are important to consider when trying to understand infidelity. But, on TAM, there are so many members who are insistent that every situation of infidelity goes according to one, and only one, very specific script. Any attempt to deviate from that script or to provide additional background information is quickly brushed aside as rationalizing, blame-shifting, history rewriting, denial, fog, etc. Of course, if an OP doesn't provide sufficient details to satisfy the TAMers, they are then asked to do so. As soon as they do, the vitriol starts flying. Many, whether BS's or WS's, often tire of this emotionally draining process and choose instead to invest the lion's share of their energies into attempting to repair their lives and relationships rather than constantly having to defend their methods. 

While B1 and I have shared the facts surrounding our marriage, and my infidelity, you and your wife have shared your story, here, as well. They represent two vastly different scenarios, but two very real scenarios, nonetheless. I believe there are as many different scenarios as there are individuals. There may be certain similarities in each "script." But, to deny that "the facts matter" when trying to heal and move forward, whether in R, or as healthy individuals, does a huge disservice to those who are here trying to learn, and heal, themselves.

So, Paladin, thank you for sharing your story. I think it has been beneficial to more people than any of us will ever really know.


----------



## 2asdf2

EI said:


> Small thread jack......
> 
> I'm glad that you shared this, Paladin, because it represents another very real side of this complex issue. I believe that there are many varying factors that are important to consider when trying to understand infidelity. *But, on TAM, there are so many members who are insistent that every situation of infidelity goes according to one, and only one, very specific script.* Any attempt to deviate from that script or to provide additional background information is quickly brushed aside as rationalizing, blame-shifting, history rewriting, denial, fog, etc. Of course, if an OP doesn't provide sufficient details to satisfy the TAMers, they are then asked to do so. As soon as they do, the vitriol starts flying. Many, whether BS's or WS's, often tire of this emotionally draining process and choose instead to invest the lion's share of their energies into attempting to repair their lives and relationships rather than constantly having to defend their methods.
> 
> While B1 and I have shared the facts surrounding our marriage, and my infidelity, you and your wife have shared your story, here, as well. They represent two vastly different scenarios, but two very real scenarios, nonetheless. I believe there are as many different scenarios as there are individuals. There may be certain similarities in each "script." But, to deny that "the facts matter" when trying to heal and move forward, whether in R, or as healthy individuals, does a huge disservice to those who are here trying to learn, and heal, themselves.
> 
> So, Paladin, thank you for sharing your story. I think it has been beneficial to more people than any of us will ever really know.


That's precisely why I posted my little note to you. To which no reply is needed or expected.

I feel the same hyperbolic response to UAP's transgression was given, as it is given to all WS, regardless of the circumstances.

There are shades of gray!


----------



## Decorum

Paladin said:


> These statements represent a very binary outlook on a multifaceted issue. However, since the attempts to discuss alternative points of view about the motivation for committing infidelity essentially derailed the thread and required intervention, I'll try and re-frame the points in a more clinical fashion.
> 
> Affairs and drug addiction have some very striking similarities, primarily in how both influence the release and re-uptake of dopamine, and the significant physiological changes that take place in the pleasure/reward systems of the brain when all the release, re-uptake, and eventually down regulation of dopamine occur.
> 
> Anyone who has ever intimately dealt with a person suffering from major addiction can tell you that the personality changes, and more significantly for our example, the compartmentalization that occurs in the mind of the addict is incredibly difficult to understand by a person that is thinking rationally.
> 
> In many cases while an addict is trying to rationalize getting another fix, his/her mind can convince them that they are in fact acting in a rational and socially acceptable way. Its almost like the doublespeak discussed in the book 1984.
> 
> In more than a few cases of infidelity, the WSs mind compartmentalizes to such an intense degree, that they actually believe that their actions will not harm their spouse or marriage. Some of them are incredibly shocked when the fog lifts and they reassess what has been happening, and actually see the devastation left in the wake of the dysfunction.
> 
> Sadly, the spouse may not have been a variable that was even considered or consciously thought about in any meaningful way when the choice to have the A is made.
> 
> It complicates the situation when a person can no longer point the finger and say "see you lost all love and respect for your spouse, thats why you cheated." The fact that the OPs brain could have easily compartmentalized everything around her to justify getting a "fix" should be enough of a reason to consider the motivations for having an A in more than binary or black/white terms.


She lost her love and respect BEFORE she got her first "hit" of OM.

The fractal nature of an addictive personality not withstanding.

There is a life skill to keeping love alive, and often it needs to be more intentional than accential and is unlikely to be attributable to biology.

That is why no one writes love and marriage books for dogs and cats.

Good boundaries are often intentional and are usually quite compatible with "binary" thinking ha ha.

She could have used a good dose of life skills and good solid boundaries before she ruined her life.

I suspect she will incorporate them more easily now after the fact.

Unless of course someone ( not you I think Paladin) wants to argure that she was biologically predestined to cheat.

Small steps of understanding is what I am hoping to see, none of this approaches the "why" question, but the "what" issue.

That involves "should haves and should not haves".

To black and white? I doubt it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2asdf2

2asdf2 said:


> That's precisely why I posted my little note to you. To which no reply is needed or expected.
> 
> I feel the same hyperbolic response to UAP's transgression was given, as it is given to all WS, regardless of the circumstances.
> 
> There are shades of gray!


50!!!


----------



## EI

2asdf2 said:


> EI:
> 
> You know I like you immensely.
> 
> Do you see a difference between your fifteen months and UAP's one instance?


And, I like you, immensely, as well.  But, is this a trick question? :scratchhead: LOL..... Because, my brain is tired and I'm not sure that I have the mental capacity, right now, to delve very deeply into this. So, I will give you a quick answer without going into any explanation. Yes, I think that there is a *HUGE* difference between my 15 month EA/PA and what UAP did. 

With that having been said, I don't necessarily believe that it makes her BS hurt any less than mine because it was "only" a ONS. Just as my BS has so lovingly helped me to comprehend; even though he understands what my "reasons" were for having the A, and he knows what his contribution was in the breakdown of our marriage, it doesn't make the fact that I betrayed him any less painful. I was unfaithful to him. That hurt him. And, it hurts me, too. If only I could turn back time. But, I cannot.


----------



## EI

2asdf2 said:


> That's precisely why I posted my little note to you. To which no reply is needed or expected.
> 
> I feel the same hyperbolic response to UAP's transgression was given, as it is given to all WS, regardless of the circumstances.
> 
> There are shades of gray!



See, I was already responding to you before I read your response to me! Oh boy, I feel so much better.  I thought you didn't like my post and you were trying to set me up.......  LOL


----------



## 2asdf2

EI said:


> And, I like you, immensely, as well.  But, is this a trick question? :scratchhead: LOL..... Because, my brain is tired and I'm not sure that I have the mental capacity, right now, to delve very deeply into this. So, I will give you a quick answer without going into any explanation. Yes, I think that there is a *HUGE* difference between my 15 month EA/PA and what UAP did.
> 
> With that having been said, I don't necessarily believe that it makes her BS hurt any less than mine because it was "only" a ONS. Just as my BS has so lovingly helped me to comprehend; even though he understands what my "reasons" were for having the A, and he knows what his contribution was in the breakdown of our marriage, it doesn't make the fact that I betrayed him any less painful. I was unfaithful to him. That hurt him. And, it hurts me, too. If only I could turn back time. But, I cannot.


I was -certainly- hurt much less by my WW one-time foursome, than I was by her eighteen-month-long PA.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

2asdf2 said:


> On this I agree. I am not excusing any of it.
> 
> I am saying is that there are degrees of betrayal, and *this one is rather minimal*.


Not to her husband it isn't.

I agree it pales in comparison to most of the PA stories we get here, but this, even one time, is most likely monumental to her BS. He left and when he has come to see the kids, he doesn't let the OP say much before he locks himself in his room, or leaves.

We've seen BS's leave and D for less than a ONS.


----------



## 12345Person

2asdf2 said:


> I was -certainly- hurt much less by my WW one-time foursome, than I was by her eighteen-month-long PA.


Knew a BS who's husband cheated on her with swingers. Always wondered if she would ever be able to satisfy him. He told her that it was just "different". But she never believed him.

Should've divorced him. Oh, well.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

manfromlamancha said:


> Is your husband Spanish/Hispanic too?


He is on his mom side. My MIL is part Spanish (Spain) and Venezuelan/Colombian. My MIL and me had similar upbringing and share a lot of things in common. My FIL is American.


----------



## jim123

EI said:


> Small thread jack......
> 
> I'm glad that you shared this, Paladin, because it represents another very real side of this complex issue. I believe that there are many varying factors that are important to consider when trying to understand infidelity. But, on TAM, there are so many members who are insistent that every situation of infidelity goes according to one, and only one, very specific script. Any attempt to deviate from that script or to provide additional background information is quickly brushed aside as rationalizing, blame-shifting, history rewriting, denial, fog, etc. Of course, if an OP doesn't provide sufficient details to satisfy the TAMers, they are then asked to do so. As soon as they do, the vitriol starts flying. Many, whether BS's or WS's, often tire of this emotionally draining process and choose instead to invest the lion's share of their energies into attempting to repair their lives and relationships rather than constantly having to defend their methods.
> 
> While B1 and I have shared the facts surrounding our marriage, and my infidelity, you and your wife have shared your story, here, as well. They represent two vastly different scenarios, but two very real scenarios, nonetheless. I believe there are as many different scenarios as there are individuals. There may be certain similarities in each "script." But, to deny that "the facts matter" when trying to heal and move forward, whether in R, or as healthy individuals, does a huge disservice to those who are here trying to learn, and heal, themselves.
> 
> So, Paladin, thank you for sharing your story. I think it has been beneficial to more people than any of us will ever really know.


The problem is that the issue has become a good versus evil where there can be no middle ground nor can one become the other or have a little of both.

It is about behavior and we must all find a way to understand. We all do a disservice when we do not try to learn and heal ourselves. Anger and hate never bring a good result in the long run.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

DarkHoly said:


> I don't think anyone can blame you for these feelings. The bond between parent and child is an exceedingly thick cord. May I gently ask what you believe about the relationship between being a good spouse and a good parent? Do you believe they go hand in hand, or do you believe they can be separate and compartmentalized?


Honesty Before my affair I would yes. You could be a good mother and not a good wife. Now I don’t really see it that way. My mom used to tell me to be a great mother you had to be a great wife first. At the time I didn’t really understand or maybe I just didn’t get then. After hurting my husband the way I have and seeing how it’s going to affect my kids and hurt them too. I do believe they go hand in hand. My boys don’t even know what going on and yet you could tell they know something isn’t right. It’s sad I never really realized just how much my kids are going to lose because of something stupid I did.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Decorum said:


> UAP,
> I can tell that in the face of the reality of the situation you have been forced to become more objective and some of the panic is gone.
> 
> Thats ok, you will be more able to face the truth and take good decisions.
> 
> One of the things I think you need to face is this, I know you genuinely care for him, but for some time leading up to your affair you have lost your love and respect for your husband.
> 
> You could have kept it alive but you undervalued it and let it lapse.
> 
> Right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don’t know how to answer this yet because I don’t really know why I had an affair. But I don’t think I ever lost any love or respect for my husband. This might come off a little wrong but I don’t think my feelings for my husband or anything involving my husband had anything to do with what happened. I didn’t really think of him at all he was a second thought. I only stared thinking of him after I already did it


----------



## jim123

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I don’t know how to answer this yet because I don’t really know why I had an affair. But I don’t think I ever lost any love or respect for my husband. This might come off a little wrong but I don’t think my feelings for my husband or anything involving my husband had anything to do with what happened. I didn’t really think of him at all he was a second thought. I only stared thinking of him after I already did it


This is normal but also says a lot. Your AP replaced your husband for at least a short while.


----------



## Paladin

CynthiaDe said:


> The loss of love and respect is not why the person cheats. I agree that there can be an addictive aspect to adultery, but the activity is completely self-centered.


I agree with you about affairs being completely self centered/serving, that is exactly why I am drawing the correlation between major addiction, and affair behavior. The reward/pleasure centers of the brain are in overdrive in both cases, and completely change the way a person processes and perceives reality. 

There are other examples too, for instance, people with undiagnosed bipolar disorder and are experiencing a major manic episode act in a way consistent with addicts, and people in affairs. That part of the brain is one of the most powerful, and can literally make it impossible for a person to act in a reasonable and rational way. 

Any logical counter point that the person tries to raise is immediately deconstructed and compartmentalized so that whatever is keeping the reward center firing and in over drive can continue to happen.




CynthiaDe said:


> There is no love or respect for the spouse when someone does that. I think that is an important factor to consider when working through this issues that led to the adulterous behavior and working through the aftermath.
> The lack of love and respect does not cause the behavior, but had to be absent for the person to behave in that manner.


You seem to be saying that if love and respect for the spouse are present, it is impossible to commit adultery, and equally as impossible for someone committing adultery to love and respect their spouse. I disagree, those issues are only mutually exclusive to rational people, and affairs/addiction are not rational. That is why I mention compartmentalization, and how incredibly powerful it actually is. The pleasure/reward centers of the brain will stop at nothing to ensure that whatever is feeding it, continues to do so. 

The person engulfed by this kind of dysfunction may quite literally be living two (or more) separate and co-occurring versions of reality. One that is a reflection of the marital and relationship history they have with their spouse, including love, and respect, and excluding pain and suffering. 

That version of reality does not contain any of the broken thinking that is present when that same person switches gears and goes into self/service mode. When they are manic/self serving/addicted/adulterous they may not even be aware of their spouse's existence beyond objectifying them and applying whatever delusion they need to apply in order to act without guilt or empathy. 



CynthiaDe said:


> Yes, I don't want to take this thread off topic either.
> There are different ways of looking at it, but either way, the act of adultery of lacking of any love or respect for the LS while they are engaged in that kind of activity and that has to be acknowledged in order to deal with it effectively.


I think I addressed this point in my reply to Cynthia, the love and respect may actually be present, but in a disconnected, sorted, and compartmentalized version of reality. It is almost impossible for a rational person with normal brain chemistry to conceptualize how that happens, but if you read enough books/papers on major drug addiction, extreme mania in bipolar disorder cases, and various other issues that deal with mental health, specifically dysfunctional pleasure/reward seeking and pain avoidance 



2asdf2 said:


> I feel the same hyperbolic response to UAP's transgression was given, as it is given to all WS, regardless of the circumstances.
> 
> There are shades of gray!


I took great issue with that as well, since the OP was conducting herself in a way advocated by this community, yet still getting hammered as if she somehow forgot who was responsible for her adultery. 



Decorum said:


> She lost her love and respect BEFORE she got her first "hit" of OM.
> 
> The fractal nature of an addictive personality not withstanding.


Other than having a DONS, what can you point out in her behavior that supports the point of view that she lost love and respect for him? If she did not love and respect him, why bother with the confession and pledges of helping him heal regardless of the work involved, or his choice to stay 



Decorum said:


> There is a life skill to keeping love alive, and often it needs to be more intentional than accential and is unlikely to be attributable to biology.
> 
> That is why no one writes love and marriage books for dogs and cats.


Even though I can actually name animals that mate/pair up for life, I still think you made a great point about what is necessary for keeping love/relationship/marriage alive. It is not accidental and requires present, willful and engaged action.



Decorum said:


> Good boundaries are often intentional and are usually quite compatible with "binary" thinking ha ha.
> 
> She could have used a good dose of life skills and good solid boundaries before she ruined her life.
> 
> I suspect she will incorporate them more easily now after the fact.
> 
> Unless of course someone ( not you I think Paladin) wants to argure that she was biologically predestined to cheat.
> 
> Small steps of understanding is what I am hoping to see, none of this approaches the "why" question, but the "what" issue.
> 
> That involves "should haves and should not haves".
> 
> To black and white? I doubt it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Healthy boundaries are absolutely vital to the success of a marriage. They do tend to look a bit binary at first glance, but thats because they have to sound clear and unambiguous in order to be effective. Deeper examination reveals quite a few facets to most boundaries that are in place to protect a relationship.

Im sure she could have used more developed life/coping skills, can anyone say they couldn't? One of the major conclusions my partner and I came to while working on our reconciliation was just how lacking our own coping skills were. It was easy to play the role of the "perfect couple" without putting in the necessary work to actually deserve that title (not that perfection is attainable anyway)

You say she ruined her life, I'm assuming you meant by having an affair, I'm not sure thats a fair assessment. People are more than the sum of their actions. She did massive damage to her marriage, caused her husband some major strife, and will eventually come to understand that she hurt herself pretty badly as well. Hope springs eternal, or so I hear. If there was no way to make things right after screwing up, TAM wouldnt exist.

I know people sometimes fixate on the "why" of things, and have a hard time moving forward without really having the answer galvanized in their mind, but sometimes its ok to just move forward and dive into the work of sorting through the mess, discarding the dysfunctional stuff, fixing the stuff that can be fixed, and polishing the shiny stuff that was working well to begin with.


----------



## 2asdf2

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I don’t know how to answer this yet because I don’t really know why I had an affair. But I don’t think I ever lost any love or respect for my husband. This might come off a little wrong but I don’t think my feelings for my husband or anything involving my husband had anything to do with what happened. I didn’t really think of him at all he was a second thought. I only stared thinking of him after I already did it


This is the point I was addressing in my last few posts. Statements about "complete lack of love and respect" may well describe some affairs but not others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mahike

Yes you did lose love and respect for your husband! Do not delude yourself. You did the right thing to tell him. He now needs to decide what he wants to do now.

Remember these were your choices. I would only try to engage him to discuss the kids and the bills at this point. Let him know that you are willing to answer any of his questions when HE is ready.

Get your self into MC right away even if he does not go. Start working on the why's.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I don’t know how to answer this yet because I don’t really know why I had an affair. But I don’t think I ever lost any love or respect for my husband. This might come off a little wrong but I don’t think my feelings for my husband or anything involving my husband had anything to do with what happened. I didn’t really think of him at all he was a second thought. I only stared thinking of him after I already did it


I actually understand this - its honest. I don't condone it but I do understand that you weren't thinking of anything other than your own gratification at the time.


----------



## Philat

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> *Not to her husband it isn't.*
> 
> I agree it pales in comparison to most of the PA stories we get here, but this, even one time, is most likely monumental to her BS. He left and when he has come to see the kids, he doesn't let the OP say much before he locks himself in his room, or leaves.
> 
> *We've seen BS's leave and D for less than a ONS.*


:iagree: To talk about "degrees" of betrayal is to leave out the absolutely crucial aspect of what the relationship was like before vs. after, and how traumatic this change was for the BS. JohnAdams was still looking for answers 30 years after a one-time infidelity. Tears' husband absolutely could not swallow a one-time betrayal.


----------



## Decorum

Decorum said:


> UAP,
> I can tell that in the face of the reality of the situation you have been forced to become more objective and some of the panic is gone.
> 
> Thats ok, you will be more able to face the truth and take good decisions.
> 
> One of the things I think you need to face is this, I know you genuinely care for him, but for some time leading up to your affair you have lost your love and respect for your husband.
> 
> You could have kept it alive but you undervalued it and let it lapse.
> 
> Right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_






2asdf2 said:


> This is the point I was addressing in my last few posts. Statements about "complete lack of love and respect" may well describe some affairs but not others.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did not intend to be understood as saying that she had a "complete lack of love and respect" for her husband, I have never felt that way about her, that would be extreme since I don't see that in her story, I tried to make it clear that I believed that she "genuinely care for him".

If my statement reads that way then I did not make myself clear.

I hope to reply to op when I have more time later tonight and I will try to clarify that.

Thanks all.


----------



## SF-FAN

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Honesty Before my affair I would yes. You could be a good mother and not a good wife. Now I don’t really see it that way. My mom used to tell me to be a great mother you had to be a great wife first. At the time I didn’t really understand or maybe I just didn’t get then. After hurting my husband the way I have and seeing how it’s going to affect my kids and hurt them too. I do believe they go hand in hand. My boys don’t even know what going on and yet you could tell they know something isn’t right. It’s sad I never really realized just how much my kids are going to lose because of something stupid I did.


Ha! Wish my WW thought like you. My WW thinks she's mom of the year even though she had an affair. She thinks by spending time with the kids, buying them things, taking them places, it erases her cheating or somehow guards them from it....

In my eyes, she is a POS wife and mother.


----------



## vellocet

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I don’t know how to answer this yet because I don’t really know why I had an affair. But I don’t think I ever lost any love or respect for my husband. This might come off a little wrong but I don’t think my feelings for my husband or anything involving my husband had anything to do with what happened. I didn’t really think of him at all he was a second thought. I only stared thinking of him after I already did it


If you two do get back together and try to reconcile, then, if you want to respect him, then its safe to say your partying days are over.



> A lot of posters think I might be some kind of a party girl, which is a fair assumption given what happened. But I’m really not that much a party girl.


Well that's good, because you did cheat while partying. So hopefully it won't be that big of a sacrifice for you.


----------



## hospitality

I've never been fond of the WS confessing without the BS insisting or being caught. I've always felt that the A was selfish and the confession to feel better is even more selfish. Here, OP has a one night stand essentially but was willing to ruin her husband and family to get rid of that guilt. 

Does the WS OP really feel better after the confession? There was a very real foreseeable outcome that typically doesn't end well. Given this mess does the WS still feel the confession was worth it?

My theory, especially with couples who marry early, is that the WS spouse confesses because they are to scared to end the marriage or ask for real change. Essentially, the confession is approval of the affair if the WS is taken back or the blame is shifted to the BS for ending the married because of infidelity. It still all boils down to the fact that desire for another sex partner exceeds the value of the current relationship/family dynamic. 

Here, OP was willing to blow up her entire family for feel better which just doesn't make sense for a one night stand. There is something much greater going on that led to the one night stand.


----------



## Cynthia

hospitality said:


> I've never been fond of the WS confessing without the BS insisting or being caught. I've always felt that the A was selfish and the confession to feel better is even more selfish. Here, OP has a one night stand essentially but was willing to ruin her husband and family to get rid of that guilt.
> 
> Does the WS OP really feel better after the confession? There was a very real foreseeable outcome that typically doesn't end well. Given this mess does the WS still feel the confession was worth it?
> 
> My theory, especially with couples who marry early, is that the WS spouse confesses because they are to scared to end the marriage or ask for real change. Essentially, the confession is approval of the affair if the WS is taken back or the blame is shifted to the BS for ending the married because of infidelity. It still all boils down to the fact that desire for another sex partner exceeds the value of the current relationship/family dynamic.
> 
> Here, OP was willing to blow up her entire family for feel better which just doesn't make sense for a one night stand. There is something much greater going on that led to the one night stand.


Most of the people here would strongly disagree with you on this matter for the simple reason that a person needs to know their own life. When a spouse cheats and withholds that information from their spouse, the spouse is not making decisions based on truth and reality, but on the lie. Most people do not want to live a lie. The reason a person feels they need to tell is that they are withholding vital information from someone they know needs all the information about their own life. Some people would rather live a lie. I know of a man whose wife told him of a one night stand and it blew up their marriage. The whole family got wind of it and he was encouraged to divorce her. He said he thinks people should "take it to the grave." Clearly he wished he never knew. They would probably still be together if she hadn't told. It is a sad story, but I still think he had a right to know and it could have eventually come out.
Maybe a better approach would be to ask your spouse what he thinks about it and go with his decision. Hey, I was reading about Jim and Sue. Jim got drunk and had sex with a woman from work. Jim is all upset and doesn't know whether to tell his wife or not, what do you think, Honey? Should he tell her or not?


----------



## m0nk

hospitality said:


> I've never been fond of the WS confessing without the BS insisting or being caught. I've always felt that the A was selfish and the confession to feel better is even more selfish. Here, OP has a one night stand essentially but was willing to ruin her husband and family to get rid of that guilt.
> 
> Does the WS OP really feel better after the confession? There was a very real foreseeable outcome that typically doesn't end well. Given this mess does the WS still feel the confession was worth it?
> 
> My theory, especially with couples who marry early, is that the WS spouse confesses because they are to scared to end the marriage or ask for real change. Essentially, the confession is approval of the affair if the WS is taken back or the blame is shifted to the BS for ending the married because of infidelity. It still all boils down to the fact that desire for another sex partner exceeds the value of the current relationship/family dynamic.
> 
> Here, OP was willing to blow up her entire family for feel better which just doesn't make sense for a one night stand. There is something much greater going on that led to the one night stand.


While I agree with your point of not ruining someone else's life to rid yourself of guilt, I DO think she owed it to her BS if for no other reason than his health. The BS deserves to know he needs to get tested and hear results. Keeping that information is both dangerous and selfish...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Taken

hospitality said:


> I've never been fond of the WS confessing without the BS insisting or being caught. I've always felt that the A was selfish and the confession to feel better is even more selfish. Here, OP has a one night stand essentially but was willing to ruin her husband and family to get rid of that guilt.
> 
> Does the WS OP really feel better after the confession? There was a very real foreseeable outcome that typically doesn't end well. Given this mess does the WS still feel the confession was worth it?
> 
> My theory, especially with couples who marry early, is that the WS spouse confesses because they are to scared to end the marriage or ask for real change. Essentially, the confession is approval of the affair if the WS is taken back or the blame is shifted to the BS for ending the married because of infidelity. It still all boils down to the fact that desire for another sex partner exceeds the value of the current relationship/family dynamic.
> 
> Here, OP was willing to blow up her entire family for feel better which just doesn't make sense for a one night stand. There is something much greater going on that led to the one night stand.


Personally, I've never been fond of living a lie or being gaslighted or having to play detective and police my spouse into being honest. 

My theory, with all couples regardless of when they marry or how long they've been married is, that it's always better to confess and live an honest life after a misdeed than it is to live a life based on deceit and secrets. 

Here, the OP had bad boundaries and was flirting and became friends with her AP. They were having an EA and then consummated it at a party after she had too much to drink in a drunken ONS. The OP confessed because she did feel guilty but like it or not - all confessions stem from guilt. Remorse is what follows or sometimes never comes but in order for it to come, one must first be capable of feeling guilty.

It matters not how you get to the confession. Whether someone is badgered into confessing, or does so on their own it could be argued that it's self-serving either way. Whether it's to release guilt or it's just to stop the nagging and accusations and having to continue to lie part of their confession is serving their own purpose. So I just don't get your point.


----------



## Decorum

Decorum said:


> UAP,
> I can tell that in the face of the reality of the situation you have been forced to become more objective and some of the panic is gone.
> 
> Thats ok, you will be more able to face the truth and take good decisions.
> 
> One of the things I think you need to face is this, I know you genuinely care for him, but for some time leading up to your affair you have lost your love and respect for your husband.
> 
> You could have kept it alive but you undervalued it and let it lapse.
> 
> Right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_







Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I don’t know how to answer this yet because I don’t really know why I had an affair. But I don’t think I ever lost any love or respect for my husband. This might come off a little wrong but I don’t think my feelings for my husband or anything involving my husband had anything to do with what happened. I didn’t really think of him at all he was a second thought. I only stared thinking of him after I already did it



Thank you UAP for your reply.

I feel like you are an honest and sincere person and I have no reason to doubt what you say. 

I asked a direct question and you gave me a straightforward answer. I respect that, thanks again.

To be clear I was thinking your “first love” for your husband had diminished, and if your "friend" had replaced your husband in meeting your emotional needs, but not that you had lost everything for you husband.

With your answer I understand that was not the case.

I am sure your husband feels like he was doing everything he should to deserve your love and devotion and may now feel like if that was not enough he has nothing left to offer. I feel very bad for him. I wish there was some way he could know that he was not the issue.

I had a couple things I wanted to ask after this last question, but I think I will just put a couple of thoughts out there and leave it at that.

I think men and woman are designed to move fairly quickly from "Boy meets girl" to sexual intimacy given the right variables.

The fact that you and your friend had a lot of contact and formed a strong bond which led to a desire for further intimacy is normal and good between a man and a woman.
Of course since you are married it was not normal or good for this to happen.

As an example,
Sometimes when I am sharing something with my wife from an area of interest of mine (say something historical) she will listen for a bit then tell me she wants to jump my bones.

She cant tell me why it happens, but it does. (Yeah I know) When she is outright randy sometimes she will use it as a Que "I could use a little history lesson wink wink" ha ha.


I really feel like when all is said and done, yours was just a case of some excitement seeking, immaturity and poor boundaries, that led to your actions. (I have a harder time thinking this of the om to be honest)

The interaction between a man and a women (not saying every man and woman) triggers a desire. It is not a cognitive response, it is a desire, add some alcohol and you were able to act on the desire.

BTW someone corrected me earlier when I said you ruined your life, I thought it was accurate enough at the time, but I do believe you can move on from this regardless of the outcome.
I know you are hurting for your children also, I hope for the best for you and your family.

I will leave it at that, I really do wish you well.
Take care!


----------



## sidney2718

hospitality said:


> I've never been fond of the WS confessing without the BS insisting or being caught. I've always felt that the A was selfish and the confession to feel better is even more selfish. Here, OP has a one night stand essentially but was willing to ruin her husband and family to get rid of that guilt.
> 
> Does the WS OP really feel better after the confession? There was a very real foreseeable outcome that typically doesn't end well. Given this mess does the WS still feel the confession was worth it?
> 
> My theory, especially with couples who marry early, is that the WS spouse confesses because they are to scared to end the marriage or ask for real change. Essentially, the confession is approval of the affair if the WS is taken back or the blame is shifted to the BS for ending the married because of infidelity. It still all boils down to the fact that desire for another sex partner exceeds the value of the current relationship/family dynamic.
> 
> Here, OP was willing to blow up her entire family for feel better which just doesn't make sense for a one night stand. There is something much greater going on that led to the one night stand.


I don't think that's quite fair to the OP. She was under very heavy pressure from us, the TAM army, to confess. She was not sure it was a good idea. But we convinced her.

But beyond that I agree with you.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Well my husband left again Sunday in the after noon and still hasn’t come back home yet. I only called him once since he left. I’m trying to give him space and not pressure him to do anything. Although the waiting and not knowing is killing me. I keep remained myself I need to give him space since I know he’s hurting way more then I am.



I do plan to tell my parents about what’s going on later this week. I didn’t want to tell them because I was and still am scared how they will react but right now I need them. I don’t really have anyone to talk to in real life. Although you guys have been great support so far.


I did decide to withdrawal from school this semester. I talked to all of my professors and they all where very understanding and agreed to approve my withdrawal from there classes.


----------



## jim123

It is good you dropped out.

Keep attempting to contact your husband to show him you care. Maybe just little Sorry or I am thinking of you.

Otherwise he thinks you do not care or are thinking of OM or with OM.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

Usually by this point, the man has said something.

I dont know for sure, but I would definitely mentally prepare myself for divorce OP. This is not the way a man responds when he wishes to reconcile (or is considering it), at least in most cases...

This is exactly what tears husband did...


----------



## Granny7

Decorum said:


> Thank you UAP for your reply.
> 
> I feel like you are an honest and sincere person and I have no reason to doubt what you say.
> 
> I asked a direct question and you gave me a straightforward answer. I respect that, thanks again.
> 
> To be clear I was thinking your “first love” for your husband had diminished, and if your "friend" had replaced your husband in meeting your emotional needs, but not that you had lost everything for you husband.
> 
> With your answer I understand that was not the case.
> 
> I am sure your husband feels like he was doing everything he should to deserve your love and devotion and may now feel like if that was not enough he has nothing left to offer. I feel very bad for him. I wish there was some way he could know that he was not the issue.
> 
> I had a couple things I wanted to ask after this last question, but I think I will just put a couple of thoughts out there and leave it at that.
> 
> I think men and woman are designed to move fairly quickly from "Boy meets girl" to sexual intimacy given the right variables.
> 
> The fact that you and your friend had a lot of contact and formed a strong bond which led to a desire for further intimacy is normal and good between a man and a woman.
> Of course since you are married it was not normal or good for this to happen.
> 
> As an example,
> Sometimes when I am sharing something with my wife from an area of interest of mine (say something historical) she will listen for a bit then tell me she wants to jump my bones.
> 
> She cant tell me why it happens, but it does. (Yeah I know) When she is outright randy sometimes she will use it as a Que "I could use a little history lesson wink wink" ha ha.
> 
> 
> I really feel like when all is said and done, yours was just a case of some excitement seeking, immaturity and poor boundaries, that led to your actions. (I have a harder time thinking this of the om to be honest)
> 
> The interaction between a man and a women (not saying every man and woman) triggers a desire. It is not a cognitive response, it is a desire, add some alcohol and you were able to act on the desire.
> 
> BTW someone corrected me earlier when I said you ruined your life, I thought it was accurate enough at the time, but I do believe you can move on from this regardless of the outcome.
> I know you are hurting for your children also, I hope for the best for you and your family.
> 
> I will leave it at that, I really do wish you well.
> Take care!


Decorum,
I don't think you could have made a better response to Un_Amor_Perdido than you did. So many things can start from drinking, a person flirting and the other person, my my case my CH enjoying the extra and different attention to his ego. It seems like this situation is exactly what happened to my CH. The OW knew what she was after, knew he was married, but wanted to better her status in life and in front of her peers. She was married also, with 2 little girls. This encounter ended up being a 3 yr. E/A with them ending up in bed on two separate weekends, but no sex. I had 2 very qualified detective's give him Polygraph test to prove it and he passed the "No Sex" but even with that, it's still so hard for me to live with the fact that he lied and betrayed me for 3 yrs. We had always had an exclusive relationship, I thought a very good marriage as I loved him so much. No problems in the bedroom and if I had built him up any higher, he would have had a nosebleed.

Looking back on those first 23 yrs. before the A, I realized that I was doing all the giving in the relationship, not him. Maybe this was the case in this relationship that you were speaking about. 

When I asked my H why, he said, "It wasn't anything that I didn't do, she was something extra, it was fun, he enjoyed the drinks, dancing, etc." Of course, he could have taken me out once a week and did the same thing.

I know that a lot of people on here encouraged her to tell her H and I agree with that. My CH would have never told me, as a year had went by after the OW ended the A before I received a letter with the love letter's in it from the OWH who was divorcing his wife, but he wanted me to know as he was angry and I guess that was his way of getting even with my H. He couldn't decide if he wanted to go to my H place of work and punch him out, or mail me the love letters and telling me about the A. Probably the latter was the best, as my H would have gotten fired and I would have found out that way. At least he still had a job. But if he hadn't told me about it in a year and I asked him if he ever would have, he said, "Probably not, as it was over and then I would have been hurt." What he probably was thinking of was himself and that I would divorce him, which is more the truth. I so wish I had did that, but it took almost a yr. to find out the truth and I know 25 yrs. later that I probably still don't know everything. It still bother's me to this day, so I can understand where her H is coming from. It's so hard to accept, when you love someone so much and are stabbed in the heart. Even though, to this day, my H says the same thing. He never stopped loving me, but he never gave what he was doing much thought. He never thought that it was a lack of respect for me, never thought of her husband and children, nor ours. He just thought of himself, loved her (in a fantasy way) enjoyed all the fun that came with it and felt guilty sometimes, but never enough to give her up. 

So, I just wanted to share my thoughts on what you said, didn't mean to write a book, but things you said made so much sense. 

I'm not sure how Un_Amor_Perdido story is going to end. She did the right thing in telling him, but unfortunately he could be like me and it's just something he can't handle. I wish I had got out now when I was 40, not living the life that I am now, not knowing what to do at the age of 70.

I wish her the best of luck and I hope that she shows a lot of remorse, that means a lot and gives him his space. My H didn't show much remorse, he felt the less said, the better. Shove it under the rug and it will go away, but this proves, that's not the case.

Granny7


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

Granny7,

No time spent in love is ever wasted, no matter how it ends.


----------



## Granny7

OptimisticPessimist,
I guess I'll have to dis-agree on that one, at least for me. I had such wonderful visions of what our life was going to be like for the rest of our life. 

You start out with nothing, but love and that's the best part. You work together to get where your at, both emotionally (which now I realize he didn't do enough of) and money wise. Have & raise your children and then grandchildren and sit on the porch in your rocking chairs as you look at the stars and look back on your life. Yes, their are ups and downs and we had a lot, due to his social drinking after 10 yrs. of marriage, but infidelity wasn't in the cards for me. I couldn't do it and never thought he would. I thought he loved me to much and valued our life together. We had a very small wedding, me making my dress, small in house family reception and went off to the military base for his 3 yr. stint that his Mother suggest that he do. I had visions of having a honeymoon on our 25th. Anniversary, since we didn't have one when we got married (we only had $90). We did go to the Virgin Islands for that on our 25th. but the A had just ended, supposedly 2 months before, but he still saw her for a couple of drinks and he wasn't really into our Anniversary, so that wasn't what I thought it would be and didn't know why? Along came our 50th., I had forgiven him for the A 20 yrs. before that time and was going to have us renew our vows, have a nice dress and reception with our children and 7 grandchildren and family and friends. But unfortunately we were in a very bad period of our life as I thought he might be having another A, he wasn't, but he wasn't paying any attention to me for about 3 yrs. This was during the stock market crash about 4 yrs. ago. Daughter owing us $10,000, not paying it bad, he's mad about everything. I think he was depressed. I was having serious back issues and dealing with pain, so traveling was hard and this wasn't how he thought his retirement years were going to be, so he drank more, hardly ever wanted to make love, even though I tried, so it brought the whole A back to me. Why did I stay to only be going through this kind of life? This all lead up to the 50th. Anniversary that I thought was going to be so special. We spent the day apart, didn't even speak and I was so sad and hurt for all that was lost. The 25th. Anniversary he was having ending the A. Our first daughter's wedding, I was ignored again, he was in the midst of the A and now we have the 50th. and our life is falling apart. 

I guess I can't look at it like you do. Love to me, with him was so special and it got tarnished and was never quite the same. The specialness that only 2 people share was broken by a 3rd. person. The life I expected that started out with love wasn't to end that way and as hard as I am trying to get it back, it's changed me so much that I don't know if I'll ever find it with him again. So, the whole thing leaves me very sad.

Thanks for listening to me. I'm up late as I couldn't get the picture of the two of them in bed together tonight as he was holding me.
Sometimes, I wish I didn't have such a good memory.
Granny7


----------



## Philat

OptimisticPessimist said:


> Granny7,
> 
> No time spent in love is ever wasted, no matter how it ends.


That's what granny7's H thought about his AP.


----------



## loveforfamily

In his absences since advising him of the affair, has he some how checked in on the children? The absence from being a parent still is disturbing. Imo


----------



## Miss Taken

Paladin said:


> Who are these people? Lets see here.... umm... people. Fallible creatures (except for you it sounds like) that are primarily driven by pain avoidance and pleasure seeking. People that can, and often do, screw up and have to deal with the consequences.
> 
> you say "if I can do it, why cant you?"
> 
> I think the OP lost the keys to her time machine, so her plan is to try and fix the problems her actions have created and do everything in her power to become a better person moving forward.
> 
> Confessing to her husband is pretty much the definition of "laying in the bed she made" and she is, and will continue to, learn from her mistakes.


I could be wrong, but I think that his "Who are these people?" post was directed to the several posts that told her not to tell, or said "I told you so. Honesty isn't always the best policy." I don't think it was directed at OP.

I do sympathize with UAP because it's obvious that she's remorseful. Also, still think that telling was the right thing to do regardless of the consequences, which can be tremendous. Hiding infidelity is just not an option in my narrow-minded opinion. I just can't make secrecy about it right in my head despite trying to. 

I also don't think all hope is lost in terms of your husband UAP. I went dark on mine when he cheated on me and nineteen months later, am getting more open about reconciling. It's too early to know what he will do long term but right now he's just trying to deal.

He's in a tremendous amount of pain right now so does need his space but I don't think that you ought to stop trying and doing things to work on yourself if you want the marriage to work. 

The counseling is a fabulous idea. I'm sorry you had to drop out of school but I think it's best for the marriage if it can be saved. Reaching out to your parents is a good idea. They probably won't take it well but their love should be unconditional and they should support you where you are but not the infidelity.

I also don't think because you cheated means you're a bad mom. Cheating is a bad act for sure, it risks your marriage and your kid's security and modeling appropriate, loving adult relationships to your kids is part of good parenting so you can look at it that way. Also when spouses are cheating and in the "fog" their time and energy goes into AP instead of their kids. 

However, I think that it's a stretch to say that because someone cheated they're a bad mom. To use the "c" word, it can be compartmentalized IMO. Everything else you do consistently as a mom to love, care for, nurture and provide for your kids is what determines whether you're a good mom or not. 

When my spouse was cheating, he wasn't acting like a good dad, but I look at everything he did as a father before cheating and afterwards and he is a good dad; despite a temporary stint of being a behaving like a bad one. He was a great dad for eight years, a crappy one for eleven months and is back to being the dad he was before. I just can't demonize him as a parent because his track record for behaving like a good father is much longer than being a bad one.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

Granny7 said:


> OptimisticPessimist,
> I guess I'll have to dis-agree on that one, at least for me. I had such wonderful visions of what our life was going to be like for the rest of our life.
> 
> You start out with nothing, but love and that's the best part. You work together to get where your at, both emotionally (which now I realize he didn't do enough of) and money wise. Have & raise your children and then grandchildren and sit on the porch in your rocking chairs as you look at the stars and look back on your life. Yes, their are ups and downs and we had a lot, due to his social drinking after 10 yrs. of marriage, but infidelity wasn't in the cards for me. I couldn't do it and never thought he would. I thought he loved me to much and valued our life together. We had a very small wedding, me making my dress, small in house family reception and went off to the military base for his 3 yr. stint that his Mother suggest that he do. I had visions of having a honeymoon on our 25th. Anniversary, since we didn't have one when we got married (we only had $90). We did go to the Virgin Islands for that on our 25th. but the A had just ended, supposedly 2 months before, but he still saw her for a couple of drinks and he wasn't really into our Anniversary, so that wasn't what I thought it would be and didn't know why? Along came our 50th., I had forgiven him for the A 20 yrs. before that time and was going to have us renew our vows, have a nice dress and reception with our children and 7 grandchildren and family and friends. But unfortunately we were in a very bad period of our life as I thought he might be having another A, he wasn't, but he wasn't paying any attention to me for about 3 yrs. This was during the stock market crash about 4 yrs. ago. Daughter owing us $10,000, not paying it bad, he's mad about everything. I think he was depressed. I was having serious back issues and dealing with pain, so traveling was hard and this wasn't how he thought his retirement years were going to be, so he drank more, hardly ever wanted to make love, even though I tried, so it brought the whole A back to me. Why did I stay to only be going through this kind of life? This all lead up to the 50th. Anniversary that I thought was going to be so special. We spent the day apart, didn't even speak and I was so sad and hurt for all that was lost. The 25th. Anniversary he was having ending the A. Our first daughter's wedding, I was ignored again, he was in the midst of the A and now we have the 50th. and our life is falling apart.
> 
> I guess I can't look at it like you do. Love to me, with him was so special and it got tarnished and was never quite the same. The specialness that only 2 people share was broken by a 3rd. person. The life I expected that started out with love wasn't to end that way and as hard as I am trying to get it back, it's changed me so much that I don't know if I'll ever find it with him again. So, the whole thing leaves me very sad.
> 
> Thanks for listening to me. I'm up late as I couldn't get the picture of the two of them in bed together tonight as he was holding me.
> Sometimes, I wish I didn't have such a good memory.
> Granny7





Philat said:


> That's what granny7's H thought about his AP.


"There is no life of tomorrow now, and yesterday is the portrait of who will live today. My scarred portrait is beautiful, for it wears a smile wrought of living within each day passed. I would have no change, and I would have no fewer scars, for the beauty of today is worth its price. 

Show me no pity. Scar me; for it is within all emotions I find life worthwhile: even in pain. 

My greatest fear of today is that it might be empty, or nothing. So take from me, give to me, or share with me whatever you will; just don’t leave me alone.

I want to live."
-GEU (my dad); 1934-1999


----------



## Granny7

Philat said:


> That's what granny7's H thought about his AP.


Philat,
I totally agree with you. She meant enough to him to forget he had a loving wife at home. He never planned on leaving me for her, but thought he had all his bases cover (as he thought he was so smart at the time) and I would never find out. He knew my feelings very well on A's, but chose her over me and his own selfish entitlement to what he wanted, with no thought that if I did find out that I would divorce him. I so wish I had, but after almost a yr. of lies about the A, my emotional condition was thinking very clearly. I was just trying to get by each day without taking my life. I felt that he had killed me inside and I didn't want to live anymore as the pain was so great. Twenty-five yrs. later, somedays it's so hard to think or believe that he screwed up our marriage and took away the specialness that I thought we had. I was put in a box, he lead 2 separate lives for 3 yrs. and for the life of me, I'll never understand how someone can do that for three yrs. and look their wife or spouse in the face. How can they even look at themselves in the mirror, knowing what they are doing. It's just plain selfishness, with no thought of the pain they may cause to the person they are suppose to love that they married.

Granny7


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

Granny7 said:


> Philat,
> I totally agree with you. She meant enough to him to forget he had a loving wife at home. He never planned on leaving me for her, but thought he had all his bases cover (as he thought he was so smart at the time) and I would never find out. He knew my feelings very well on A's, but chose her over me and his own selfish entitlement to what he wanted, with no thought that if I did find out that I would divorce him. I so wish I had, but after almost a yr. of lies about the A, my emotional condition was thinking very clearly. I was just trying to get by each day without taking my life. I felt that he had killed me inside and I didn't want to live anymore as the pain was so great. Twenty-five yrs. later, somedays it's so hard to think or believe that he screwed up our marriage and took away the specialness that I thought we had. I was put in a box, he lead 2 separate lives for 3 yrs. and for the life of me, I'll never understand how someone can do that for three yrs. and look their wife or spouse in the face. How can they even look at themselves in the mirror, knowing what they are doing. It's just plain selfishness, with no thought of the pain they may cause to the person they are suppose to love that they married.
> 
> Granny7


I do know what you are saying, and I do think it sucks you had to deal with that, especially for such a long period of time  I am not an affair apologist (at ALL) nor do I seek to minimize the impact of an affair; I simply choose to look at every experience of one's life as a necessary component to who they become. We learn from pain just as we do from the opposite. We need the lows to understand and appreciate the highs (though the low being an affair is REALLY low and REALLY sucks). I tend to look at life in accordance with the words I quoted above, so please understand it in that context and not as a dismissal of your plight/feelings. 

Infidelity is a life-wrecker hands down no questions asked.


----------



## Granny7

OptimisticPessimist said:


> "There is no life of tomorrow now, and yesterday is the portrait of who will live today. My scarred portrait is beautiful, for it wears a smile wrought of living within each day passed. I would have no change, and I would have no fewer scars, for the beauty of today is worth its price.
> 
> Show me no pity. Scar me; for it is within all emotions I find life worthwhile: even in pain.
> 
> My greatest fear of today is that it might be empty, or nothing. So take from me, give to me, or share with me whatever you will; just don’t leave me alone.
> 
> I want to live."
> -GEU (my dad); 1934-1999


Philiat,
Please explain better what your saying meant at the end of your message. I know that I am trying to settle, now that it's all come back to my mind again, but not sure if I can. The betrayal is to great, not sure if their is any love left and the scars are to deep. So my decision on my life of 70 yrs. isn't made up yet. I'm going to give counciling and medication for PTSD one more try before I decide if I'm going to stay or go.

Granny7


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

Granny7 said:


> Philiat,
> Please explain better what your saying meant at the end of your message. I know that I am trying to settle, now that it's all come back to my mind again, but not sure if I can. The betrayal is to great, not sure if their is any love left and the scars are to deep. So my decision on my life of 70 yrs. isn't made up yet. I'm going to give counciling and medication for PTSD one more try before I decide if I'm going to stay or go.
> 
> Granny7


I assume you mean me, as you are referring to a saying and quoting it 

First off, I didnt write it- my dad did. You could summarize what the last section covered by saying "to feel is to live." Humans are social creatures; the pain you feel now is due to your social nature. While this affair has caused pain in you for a long time, it is better than the alternative- feeling nothing at all. Humans need other humans; thats why this forum exists, and why much of our technology is devoted to communication, communicating sexual value, etc.

I like to think of that prose as my dad accepting who he was and the hard times he had, while also showing the heart that admits he cant be happy in total isolation indefinitely.

Good luck in your case; you are certainly dealing with a nasty skeleton in the closet


----------



## Granny7

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I do know what you are saying, and I do think it sucks you had to deal with that, especially for such a long period of time  I am not an affair apologist (at ALL) nor do I seek to minimize the impact of an affair; I simply choose to look at every experience of one's life as a necessary component to who they become. We learn from pain just as we do from the opposite. We need the lows to understand and appreciate the highs (though the low being an affair is REALLY low and REALLY sucks). I tend to look at life in accordance with the words I quoted above, so please understand it in that context and not as a dismissal of your plight/feelings.
> 
> Infidelity is a life-wrecker hands down no questions asked.


OptimisticPessimist,
I know you meant no wrong. Life isn't perfect, but I had forgiven so much of our marriage, his drinking, not being a good Father and supporting his children emotionally. I don't know if he knows what that word means. So, I had already had a lot of highs, my love for him and proud of what he had accomplished with his job, our children. The lows, I mentioned in addition to how hard I worked to save every penny and do all the work around the house for that to happen. He just took me for granted and I didn't realize it. No special lunch's on my birthday, but he always made a huge deal for hers. Special messages on her birthday cards, hand written, but never on mine. So, I know that life and marriage isn't perfect, but he had always known that I detected infidelity, but he didn't love me enough not to do that to me. I didn't need that pain for his A to understand about life and marriage. I came from a very poor family, so I know a lot about life and thought I had married the right person and that we were going to have a happy life, for the most part. It started out good, but once he moved higher up the corporate ladder, the drinking, selfishness and attention to me changed. I was so proud of him and what he had done, but I had worked along side of him to accomplish it also. 

I still can't believe that I didn't matter more to him, like he did to me. He had so many warnings, the first letter from the OWH telling me of the A, that he explained away very well. The OWH finding birthday cards, but they continued anyway for another 2 yrs., just tried to be more careful. The last letter sent to me with the love letters and he lied about the severity of the A to me, he wouldn't leave that night when I threw the letters at him as he slept in bed after I got them. He lied so well and I handled it so wrong. I was so hurt and in shock, that I didn't get in touch with the OWH to talk to him about what he wrote in the letter. I even had to meet with her as I couldn't get any information from my lying and un-remorseful CH. That was awful, to sit next to her in a car and ask questions about the A? I still don't know if she was lying or not, but if he had answered my questions, it wouldn't have come to that. It was cruelty, plain & simple! But I could have still told him to leave a yr. later when I did know the truth, but I had been through so much, surgeries, emotional scars that I had basically given up. The pain, even with therapy and medication was more than I could handle. I always thought I was a strong person, confident, etc., but this was the one thing that I had told myself, I wouldn't live with and never expected to happen and it did. I so wish I had made different decisions back then, but I didn't have TAM and my therapist was one that thought you didn't need to know all the details, so she never pushed my H for answers as to why he did it, what this person meant to him. So many questions 25 yrs. ago that were never dealt with and now their all back, but he doesn't want to talk about it and claims to have forgotten so much, supposedly. I feel that he is avoiding it as it's painful for him to remember and he wants to move on with life. Anyway, infidelity is a life-wrecker and their is no going back to the way your life was before it happened. That's the sad part! 

Yet, she's good enough to have fun with, no thought of marriage, no thought of the consequences and the disrespect of not only himself, but your wife, which he said, "I never thought I was dis-respecting you!" I could write a book about my feelings, but I've rambled enough and I'm sorry. I'm just not in a good place now. Thanks for your concern.
Granny7


----------



## Granny7

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I assume you mean me, as you are referring to a saying and quoting it
> 
> First off, I didnt write it- my dad did. You could summarize what the last section covered by saying "to feel is to live." Humans are social creatures; the pain you feel now is due to your social nature. While this affair has caused pain in you for a long time, it is better than the alternative- feeling nothing at all. Humans need other humans; thats why this forum exists, and why much of our technology is devoted to communication, communicating sexual value, etc.
> 
> I like to think of that prose as my dad accepting who he was and the hard times he had, while also showing the heart that admits he cant be happy in total isolation indefinitely.
> 
> Good luck in your case; you are certainly dealing with a nasty skeleton in the closet


You are so right, i am dealing with a lot in my closet. Not sure if I can live my life like your Dad. I don't have to have another person to feel love and be happy. I just mourn for the beautiful love that I use to have before the A.
Granny 7


----------



## Decorum

Hi Granny its good to hear from you again.

"I wish I had got out now when I was 40, not living the life that I am now, not knowing what to do at the age of 70."

I do think that is one of the saddest things I have ever heard on TAM. Its something anyone who is thinking about reconciling needs to hear. Thank you for sharing it.

Its amazing you should post the following...




Granny7 said:


> Looking back on those first 23 yrs. before the A, I realized that I was doing all the giving in the relationship, not him. Maybe this was the case in this relationship that you were speaking about.
> 
> When I asked my H why, he said, "It wasn't anything that I didn't do, she was something extra, it was fun, he enjoyed the drinks, dancing, etc." Of course, he could have taken me out once a week and did the same thing.


I was going to suggest the same thing to UAP but I thought I would just stay away from anymore controversy on this thread.


But since you did, I will say, UAP sometimes relationships are not equal in terms of what each partner contributes.

This is not to say you are somehow selfish or anything.

But is it possible that your husband put a lot more into the relationship than you, again not that you did nothing nor even that he was unhappy with it.

This is in part what I had in mind when I used the term "immaturity".

Is it possible that you easily accepted the contributions to your life from your parents, your husband and maybe your "friend", because you a bit of a follower, and somewhat dependent, even people like to engage you because they find you receptive and fun?

Could you have formed a bit of a dependency on your friend because its just how you are wired?

No offense just asking.


Granny your are a Gem, God bless you!


----------



## Granny7

Granny7 said:


> Philiat,
> Please explain better what your saying meant at the end of your message. I know that I am trying to settle, now that it's all come back to my mind again, but not sure if I can. The betrayal is to great, not sure if their is any love left and the scars are to deep. So my decision on my life of 70 yrs. isn't made up yet. I'm going to give counciling and medication for PTSD one more try before I decide if I'm going to stay or go.
> 
> Granny7


OptimisticPessimist,
Sorry, I asked the wrong person the question in regards to your Dad's quote. I understand what he meant and it's good that he could live his life that way. Sometimes, however, peace within yourself and happiness without the stress of looking at the person you loved, that hurt you the most, is worth living life alone. If that's what it takes. Either way, it's a life changing decision.
Granny7


----------



## Granny7

Decorum said:


> Hi Granny its good to hear from you again.
> 
> "I wish I had got out now when I was 40, not living the life that I am now, not knowing what to do at the age of 70."
> 
> I do think that is one of the saddest things I have ever heard on TAM. Its something anyone who is thinking about reconciling needs to hear. Thank you for sharing it.
> 
> Its amazing you should post the following...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to suggest the same thing to UAP but I thought I would just stay away from anymore controversy on this thread.
> 
> 
> But since you did, I will say, UAP sometimes relationships are not equal in terms of what each partner contributes.
> 
> This is not to say you are somehow selfish or anything.
> 
> But is it possible that your husband put a lot more into the relationship than you, again not that you did nothing nor even that he was unhappy with it.
> 
> This is in part what I had in mind when I used the term "immaturity".
> 
> Is it possible that you easily accepted the contributions to your life from your parents, your husband and maybe your "friend", because you a bit of a follower, and somewhat dependent, even people like to engage you because they find you receptive and fun?
> 
> Could you have formed a bit of a dependency on your friend because its just how you are wired?
> 
> No offense just asking.
> 
> 
> Granny your are a Gem, God bless you!


Decorum,
I hope I helped someone. If I could spare anyone not making the mistakes that I did, it's worth it to take the time to write it. I sure wished that TAM had been available for me as it is for those on here now. 

I wouldn't hesitate to write what you were thinking to UAP, in regards to what you did say. None of us always say the right thing, we don't have to agree with each other. If I don't agree, I give my opinion as you know. 

Marriage is a 2 way partnership and I was so in love that I didn't realize that my H after a few yrs. wasn't giving any emotional support to me. I knew he loved me, as we were both very affectionate and our sex life was good. But, looking back on it now, it was a selfish love on his part. He didn't know the joy of giving when someone was sick or getting up with the children to help out. With me not working for 95% of our married life, I tried to take a lot of the burden's off of him so he could focus on his job and move up the ladder as he did. I complimented him all the time for his success's, but now when I think of my accomplishments, like winning tennis tournaments, singing, etc., he never made a big deal of it, especially if I beat him and he was on the other side of the court. He actually got mad about it. Just a little humor in here! 

The therapist told me during one of our MC sessions, that she felt he had an A because he was insecure within himself and always needed approval and I believe her. I think that's where the drinking came in play. Before meetings at work during a conference, he would always have to have a drink before socializing with others and would continue during the conference and even afterwards in the lounge. During those times, he was so busy trying to impress other's that he would forget me. He needed to be recognized by everyone and I feel that when the OW came on to him, it was a first for him, he always liked what he wanted and that lead him right into going for her also. 

Not sure if UAP was the same kind of person, needy and insecure. I also feel that my CH felt that he was entitled to everything, like getting the attention from all the people who worked for him, men and women alike. He was so well liked at work and thought to be "The Southern Gentleman!" That's how he came across to everyone.

He would also knock me down sometimes, as he though it was a joke and then everyone would laugh, like at our parties. I recall now that he wasn't always asking me to dance, he was dancing with the other women. I would have to go up and ask him. He was the social butterfly when he drank and no matter how many times I mentioned it and tried to talk to him about how I felt, he never changed for me. 

I should have done what Laura Bush did to her H. It's either me or the bottle and President Bush did quit drinking. That was my mistake, no consequences, except many years after the A when I left him twice for drinking, but just not long enough. That's why I disagree with what UAP's husband did. He made a drastic statement when he found out, he just left. Now she knows what she might have lost for what she did. I'm not saying that to punish her, it's just a fact of life. My CH, even though I tried to make him leave the night I found out, he wouldn't go. I should have called the police or packed his bag the next door or left myself. He lied so well, even as to calling our 2 daughters who had seen the letter that I had received about the A, the next morning and held our hands, prayed and apologized for the A that he lied to all of us about. It was only a few times that he had lunch with her and he was so sorry about that. He was so convincing and I was in so much shock that I couldn't read the love letters again right then or I would have figured that it was more than that.

Anyway, enough about my mistakes and his. This is suppose to be about UAP and what is going to come about in her life. I hope that she takes some of the good advice that has been given to her and can move forward with it. I don't want anyone on here to be in the place that I am right now.

Granny7


----------



## Decorum

Granny7 said:


> Decorum,
> I hope I helped someone. If I could spare anyone not making the mistakes that I did, it's worth it to take the time to write it. I sure wished that TAM had been available for me as it is for those on here now.
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to write what you were thinking to UAP, in regards to what you did say. None of us always say the right thing, we don't have to agree with each other. If I don't agree, I give my opinion as you know.
> 
> Marriage is a 2 way partnership and I was so in love that I didn't realize that my H after a few yrs. wasn't giving any emotional support to me. I knew he loved me, as we were both very affectionate and our sex life was good. But, looking back on it now, it was a selfish love on his part. He didn't know the joy of giving when someone was sick or getting up with the children to help out. With me not working for 95% of our married life, I tried to take a lot of the burden's off of him so he could focus on his job and move up the ladder as he did. I complimented him all the time for his success's, but now when I think of my accomplishments, like winning tennis tournaments, singing, etc., he never made a big deal of it, especially if I beat him and he was on the other side of the court. He actually got mad about it. Just a little humor in here!
> 
> The therapist told me during one of our MC sessions, that she felt he had an A because he was insecure within himself and always needed approval and I believe her. I think that's where the drinking came in play. Before meetings at work during a conference, he would always have to have a drink before socializing with others and would continue during the conference and even afterwards in the lounge. During those times, he was so busy trying to impress other's that he would forget me. He needed to be recognized by everyone and I feel that when the OW came on to him, it was a first for him, he always liked what he wanted and that lead him right into going for her also.
> 
> Not sure if UAP was the same kind of person, needy and insecure. I also feel that my CH felt that he was entitled to everything, like getting the attention from all the people who worked for him, men and women alike. He was so well liked at work and thought to be "The Southern Gentleman!" That's how he came across to everyone.
> 
> He would also knock me down sometimes, as he though it was a joke and then everyone would laugh, like at our parties. I recall now that he wasn't always asking me to dance, he was dancing with the other women. I would have to go up and ask him. He was the social butterfly when he drank and no matter how many times I mentioned it and tried to talk to him about how I felt, he never changed for me.
> 
> I should have done what Laura Bush did to her H. It's either me or the bottle and President Bush did quit drinking. That was my mistake, no consequences, except many years after the A when I left him twice for drinking, but just not long enough. That's why I disagree with what UAP's husband did. He made a drastic statement when he found out, he just left. Now she knows what she might have lost for what she did. I'm not saying that to punish her, it's just a fact of life. My CH, even though I tried to make him leave the night I found out, he wouldn't go. I should have called the police or packed his bag the next door or left myself. He lied so well, even as to calling our 2 daughters who had seen the letter that I had received about the A, the next morning and held our hands, prayed and apologized for the A that he lied to all of us about. It was only a few times that he had lunch with her and he was so sorry about that. He was so convincing and I was in so much shock that I couldn't read the love letters again right then or I would have figured that it was more than that.
> 
> Anyway, enough about my mistakes and his. This is suppose to be about UAP and what is going to come about in her life. I hope that she takes some of the good advice that has been given to her and can move forward with it. I don't want anyone on here to be in the place that I am right now.
> 
> Granny7





Granny7 said:


> OptimisticPessimist,
> I know you meant no wrong. Life isn't perfect, but I had forgiven so much of our marriage, his drinking, not being a good Father and supporting his children emotionally. I don't know if he knows what that word means. So, I had already had a lot of highs, my love for him and proud of what he had accomplished with his job, our children. The lows, I mentioned in addition to how hard I worked to save every penny and do all the work around the house for that to happen. He just took me for granted and I didn't realize it. No special lunch's on my birthday, but he always made a huge deal for hers. Special messages on her birthday cards, hand written, but never on mine. So, I know that life and marriage isn't perfect, but he had always known that I detected infidelity, but he didn't love me enough not to do that to me. I didn't need that pain for his A to understand about life and marriage. I came from a very poor family, so I know a lot about life and thought I had married the right person and that we were going to have a happy life, for the most part. It started out good, but once he moved higher up the corporate ladder, the drinking, selfishness and attention to me changed. I was so proud of him and what he had done, but I had worked along side of him to accomplish it also.
> 
> I still can't believe that I didn't matter more to him, like he did to me. He had so many warnings, the first letter from the OWH telling me of the A, that he explained away very well. The OWH finding birthday cards, but they continued anyway for another 2 yrs., just tried to be more careful. The last letter sent to me with the love letters and he lied about the severity of the A to me, he wouldn't leave that night when I threw the letters at him as he slept in bed after I got them. He lied so well and I handled it so wrong. I was so hurt and in shock, that I didn't get in touch with the OWH to talk to him about what he wrote in the letter. I even had to meet with her as I couldn't get any information from my lying and un-remorseful CH. That was awful, to sit next to her in a car and ask questions about the A? I still don't know if she was lying or not, but if he had answered my questions, it wouldn't have come to that. It was cruelty, plain & simple! But I could have still told him to leave a yr. later when I did know the truth, but I had been through so much, surgeries, emotional scars that I had basically given up. The pain, even with therapy and medication was more than I could handle. I always thought I was a strong person, confident, etc., but this was the one thing that I had told myself, I wouldn't live with and never expected to happen and it did. I so wish I had made different decisions back then, but I didn't have TAM and my therapist was one that thought you didn't need to know all the details, so she never pushed my H for answers as to why he did it, what this person meant to him. So many questions 25 yrs. ago that were never dealt with and now their all back, but he doesn't want to talk about it and claims to have forgotten so much, supposedly. I feel that he is avoiding it as it's painful for him to remember and he wants to move on with life. Anyway, infidelity is a life-wrecker and their is no going back to the way your life was before it happened. That's the sad part!
> 
> Yet, she's good enough to have fun with, no thought of marriage, no thought of the consequences and the disrespect of not only himself, but your wife, which he said, "I never thought I was dis-respecting you!" I could write a book about my feelings, but I've rambled enough and I'm sorry. I'm just not in a good place now. Thanks for your concern.
> Granny7





Your story is strong medicine Granny. Sobering!
Hope you dont mind I sent a friend request.

Take care!


----------



## Imstrong123

Yes, give him time and space. He needs it. By not giving it to him you are telling him your feelings are more important than his, not good at this point. I don't know how he will react later on. My husband cheated on me in the most horrible way, for years. When I found out I felt EXACTLY as you describe your husband felt. That sadness, disappointment.....is truly overwhelming...your husband is lost, and doesn't know what to do with his feelings...

If I were you, I would try calling his best friend or family member, the one he is the closest to and tell him what happened, be honest. Then tell them to go find him and make sure he is OK. Tell them he doesn't need to come home if he wants his space but that you are there waiting for him, to talk to him about this, whenever he is ready. That you love him more than anything and will wait for him to be ready to talk.

You confessed and that's huge. He will realize that and that's a good place to start. It tells him you have remorse, you are not a sociopath and didn't, couldn't live with this secret. I think he will eventually come over and at least talk to you. I think for men is really difficult, more so than for women, to forgive. But if I were you, I would go to a Therapist to get some pointers on how to talk to him when he is ready, what to say (if he demands details, I think that's not a good thing)...so make sure you are ready to talk, without hurting him even more. You will need counseling, for a long time, and well, maybe this will even make your marriage stronger..is possible.
Good luck!


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

My husband came home today after been gone since Sunday. I am very confused right now after having him avoid and ignore me for the past weeks he’s acting very strange. It’s hard to explain he’s still not talking to me but he came home the same time he usually does played with the kids for a bit. Then we all eat dinner together as a family. After dinner we both help our kid’s with there homework and after that he help me put them to bed. We really didn’t talk much during but it was somewhat of a normal night. The tension was still there.



He’s down stairs right now watching the game. I kind of want to see if he wants to talk but he hasn’t really given me any signs so maybe he does want his space. He doesn’t look angry right now and he seemed ok. I don’t know acting pretty weird given the way he has been acting for the last few weeks.


----------



## Cynthia

Do not pester him. Be patient and let him settle in. Keep up with your counseling.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Baby steps. Let him enjoy his game. He is falling back into his routine, with the kids, after work. His heart rate has been 150 BPM for the past week or so. It's leveling off. Give him his space, but be available.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Decorum said:


> Hi Granny its good to hear from you again.
> 
> "I wish I had got out now when I was 40, not living the life that I am now, not knowing what to do at the age of 70."
> 
> I do think that is one of the saddest things I have ever heard on TAM. Its something anyone who is thinking about reconciling needs to hear. Thank you for sharing it.
> 
> Its amazing you should post the following...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to suggest the same thing to UAP but I thought I would just stay away from anymore controversy on this thread.
> 
> 
> But since you did, I will say, UAP sometimes relationships are not equal in terms of what each partner contributes.
> 
> This is not to say you are somehow selfish or anything.
> 
> But is it possible that your husband put a lot more into the relationship than you, again not that you did nothing nor even that he was unhappy with it.
> 
> This is in part what I had in mind when I used the term "immaturity".
> 
> Is it possible that you easily accepted the contributions to your life from your parents, your husband and maybe your "friend", because you a bit of a follower, and somewhat dependent, even people like to engage you because they find you receptive and fun?
> 
> Could you have formed a bit of a dependency on your friend because its just how you are wired?
> 
> No offense just asking.
> 
> 
> Granny your are a Gem, God bless you!




I believe we both contribute an equal amount into the relationship. We could say he as put more into the family then I have. This is something that has always bothered me. He brings so much to the table and I don’t really bring anything. I always tried to do something special for him when I could just to let him how much appreciate, care and love him. It never ever felt like it was enough.


I have become somewhat dependent on husband and passive with him. Outside of that I would say no. I have never been a follower and I never cared what other people would talk or say about me unless it was someone I was close to. 


I will say this, my husband and I both have very weak boundaries and that’s where I think all has stared from.


----------



## rustytheboyrobot

Hello UAP,

So glad he actually came home. Did he ever look at you?

Also you really do need to think and think long and hard about why you did what you did. For two reasons;

1) You need to take this as a learning experience. It's the only thing you have any control over anymore. Figure out why you acted that way and if you do want to change those parts of yourself grab the rod and start on that path.

2) If he wants to R he is going to ask you and "I don't know" is not an acceptable answer.

Good luck!


----------



## Granny7

Decorum said:


> Your story is strong medicine Granny. Sobering!
> Hope you dont mind I sent a friend request.
> 
> Take care!


Decorum,
Not sure who is sending me the friend request, yourself or OptimisticPessimist, but I wouldn't mind having either of you as a friend. I need all the ones that I can get tonight. It's been a bad night. 

So many trigger's on TV, no matter how you try and not watch some shows and I just blew up tonight as I saw an A and my H never says a thing. The injured party had just found out and he almost punched the other guy that had slept with his wife in the face, but he hit the wall instead. I told him, "Didn't you ever think that the OWH could have come to our house and did that to you, in front of me and our children?" He said, "No, I didn't think about it, so I told him. "How could you call that loving us, putting us in danger, than he got upset and yelled at me, "Your never going to get past this!" I told him that all he has to do is acknowledge it when he see's me getting upset, as my blood pressure was starting to rise. I felt like I was going to explode! How come a person thinks he is so perfect in carrying on an A and that he'll never get caught and he believes the OW's cheating lies, when she says, he H doesn't really care anymore. I met the man and I never got that impression, but that was before he and I knew the A was going on. I'm so sick of all of this and the up's and downs and trying to stay together. Trying to find a psychiatrist to stop the PTSD and compulsive thoughts. A new psychologist to talk to about this and him coming in for MC also. It all never ends after an A. That is what I have tried to get across to anyone that is trying to decide what to do. Read my story, learn from my mistakes, please! Life shouldn't be like this!

Granny7


----------



## Wolf1974

Granny7 said:


> Decorum,
> Not sure who is sending me the friend request, yourself or OptimisticPessimist, but I wouldn't mind having either of you as a friend. I need all the ones that I can get tonight. It's been a bad night.
> 
> So many trigger's on TV, no matter how you try and not watch some shows and I just blew up tonight as I saw an A and my H never says a thing. The injured party had just found out and he almost punched the other guy that had slept with his wife in the face, but he hit the wall instead. I told him, "Didn't you ever think that the OWH could have come to our house and did that to you, in front of me and our children?" He said, "No, I didn't think about it, so I told him. "How could you call that loving us, putting us in danger, than he got upset and yelled at me, "Your never going to get past this!" I told him that all he has to do is acknowledge it when he see's me getting upset, as my blood pressure was starting to rise. I felt like I was going to explode! How come a person thinks he is so perfect in carrying on an A and that he'll never get caught and he believes the OW's cheating lies, when she says, he H doesn't really care anymore. I met the man and I never got that impression, but that was before he and I knew the A was going on. I'm so sick of all of this and the up's and downs and trying to stay together. Trying to find a psychiatrist to stop the PTSD and compulsive thoughts. A new psychologist to talk to about this and him coming in for MC also.* It all never ends after an A*. That is what I have tried to get across to anyone that is trying to decide what to do. Read my story, learn from my mistakes, please! Life shouldn't be like this!
> 
> Granny7


Exactly :iagree:

How anyone can move on after an affair and reestablish a new healthy relationship is beyond my comprehension. I applaud people who can...they are certainly strong than I could be. I would never be able to get it out of my head.


----------



## Granny7

Wolf1974 said:


> Exactly :iagree:
> 
> How anyone can move on after an affair and reestablish a new healthy relationship is beyond my comprehension. I applaud people who can...they are certainly strong than I could be. I would never be able to get it out of my head.


Wolf1974,
I think you are right, i am living prove of it. If I had known the total truth from the very beginning, I would have divorced him at 40, now I'm 70 and it's harder. I tried to make it work for over 25 yrs., he's only trying in the past year to be a better person, not drink for the past 2 yrs. Even now, like after our blow up tonight over a trigger on TV, he still doesn't react right to my reaction and hurt. I had always said to him and others that were around, when we had heard of someone cheating on their spouse, that I would leave that person in a "heart beat" and I meant it. Never thinking it would ever happen to me, we loved each other, or so I thought. I am so angry at myself for not making him leave, not separating or divorcing him 25 yrs. ago. Now if I do it, it's all going to be harder. The grandchildren are mostly, 6 of them in their 20's and do not know of any of this. It will tear the whole family apart and I love my grandchildren so much. I will be embarrassed when they find out that their grandfather cheated on me. I shouldn't be, but I will feel humiliated. It's just all a mess.

I'm like you, I admire the one's that can do it. I tried, but I don't know if I am able to. If I knew that he had sex with her, I'm liable to really make him pay, I would be livid. At this point, the 2 Polygraph tests done by leading detectives showed he didn't do anything sexual with her on those two weekends that they went on during a 3 yr. period. I can find no other evidence to prove that their were other's and he would be to cheap to pay for a room. He got them free due to the job he was in. I found the two weekends after scouring through 3 yrs. of credit card receipts and that's how I found out that he had slept with her. That was 8 months after I found out about the A from the OWH. I hate lies and he had lived one for 3 yrs. and continued to lie to me for a yr. after I found out. Even now, it's hard for him to relive it and remember all that he did 25 yrs. ago. I'd love to stick him with truth serum and get what actually happened during those 3 yrs. of the A.

You can tell how angry it still makes me, now that it's come back again.

Take care,
Granny7


----------



## rustytheboyrobot

//thread hijack





Granny7 said:


> Wolf1974,
> I think you are right, i am living prove of it. If I had known the total truth from the very beginning, I would have divorced him at 40, now I'm 70 and it's harder. I tried to make it work for over 25 yrs., he's only trying in the past year to be a better person, not drink for the past 2 yrs. Even now, like after our blow up tonight over a trigger on TV, he still doesn't react right to my reaction and hurt. I had always said to him and others that were around, when we had heard of someone cheating on their spouse, that I would leave that person in a "heart beat" and I meant it. Never thinking it would ever happen to me, we loved each other, or so I thought. I am so angry at myself for not making him leave, not separating or divorcing him 25 yrs. ago. Now if I do it, it's all going to be harder. The grandchildren are mostly, 6 of them in their 20's and do not know of any of this. It will tear the whole family apart and I love my grandchildren so much. I will be embarrassed when they find out that their grandfather cheated on me. I shouldn't be, but I will feel humiliated. It's just all a mess.
> 
> I'm like you, I admire the one's that can do it. I tried, but I don't know if I am able to. If I knew that he had sex with her, I'm liable to really make him pay, I would be livid. At this point, the 2 Polygraph tests done by leading detectives showed he didn't do anything sexual with her on those two weekends that they went on during a 3 yr. period. I can find no other evidence to prove that their were other's and he would be to cheap to pay for a room. He got them free due to the job he was in. I found the two weekends after scouring through 3 yrs. of credit card receipts and that's how I found out that he had slept with her. That was 8 months after I found out about the A from the OWH. I hate lies and he had lived one for 3 yrs. and continued to lie to me for a yr. after I found out. Even now, it's hard for him to relive it and remember all that he did 25 yrs. ago. I'd love to stick him with truth serum and get what actually happened during those 3 yrs. of the A.
> 
> You can tell how angry it still makes me, now that it's come back again.
> 
> Take care,
> Granny7


You went through all of that by yourself? Because it sounds like you went through all of that by yourself.

Scouring records. Looking up every phone number... Making spreadsheets of everything. Checking every purchase and looking up addresses when things seem even the smallest bit out of place... and I did this after I knew everything was over.

Can't imagine doing all of that and then seeing that person every day and every night. Laying next to them just trying to breathe...



There is great strength in being alone though. Only you can make yourself happy. I mean he can't make you happy. Even if he was perfect and everything was always perfect that can't make you happy. You are the only person who can be responsible for that.

You still have a choice. I mean if you're not happy then you can make choices to be more happy.

Maybe start with no more zero days. Every day do something, anything, because doing nothing is terrible. Go on a walk and watch the leaves flutter, the birds eat garbage, maybe see a cat running around, and smile and say hi to people. Smiling is very important because it causes endorphins to be released in your brain and it will absolutely cheer you up! And when you smile at people it cheers them up! And then people smile back.

And every day you can go on that walk. As slow as you like. And you'll start to see the same people and they will smile first and you can't help but smile back.

Every little thing helps.


----------



## Granny7

rustytheboyrobot said:


> //thread hijack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You went through all of that by yourself? Because it sounds like you went through all of that by yourself.
> 
> <<First came the shock, hurt and the anger came later. Oh, then I went through the "hysterical bonding." You know the part about trying to prove to your spouse that he has the best person in the marriage and so you have sex and go dancing, everything you can to show him what he had at home. Stupid, but a lot of people do it at one time, before the anger sets in.>>
> 
> << If you mean, "Did I get any help from my cheating husband 25 yrs. ago, yes I did. I even met with the OW twice, spoke to her on the phone to find out information, as my H wouldn't tell me anything. I had 4 D-days of discovering new things about his A. I did finally go to a counselor and psychiatrist eventually as I had gotten suicidal after the first yr. I couldn't deal with what he had done and the lies and arguing all the time. I also had some serious surgery twice in 18 months, while dealing with his A. >>
> 
> Scouring records. Looking up every phone number... Making spreadsheets of everything. Checking every purchase and looking up addresses when things seem even the smallest bit out of place... and I did this after I knew everything was over.
> 
> <<I had to do it to find out what really happened. After the shock of finding out about the A and melanoma surgery with 300 stitches 6 weeks after the letter came, I was to weak to do much of anything. Then I read the love letter's again, that he lied about and things didn't add up to what he was telling me. So, I needed to know the truth, because he sure wasn't telling it to me. So I checked the records, called her to verify things and that's how I got my answer's. But unfortunately it took a while and I didn't find it all at one time. So, I would confront him with the truth, ask if their was anything else and he would say No! It wasn't easy, but no one wants to be made a fool of. But in hindsight, after I found out about the first weekend, I should have told him to get out. I wouldn't have been satisfied after he left, I still would have wanted the truth about those 3 yrs., so yes that's what I did. Stupid, right? >>
> 
> Can't imagine doing all of that and then seeing that person every day and every night. Laying next to them just trying to breathe...
> 
> <<It was hell, I couldn't sleep at night, usually ended up on the couch just laying there staring into the darkness or reading the bible or a book to get my mind off my racing thoughts. I would always sleep hanging off the bed. I don't know why I didn't sleep in the other room or tell him to. Probably some nights I did, but I was trying to keep the stress away from our 15 yr. old daughter. She eventually moved out when she was 16 as she couldn't stand the tension she felt in the house anymore. She moved in with her boyfriend, who she eventually married, had a child and left him when she was 3 months pregnant to be with the guy that she really loved. She was so messed up after what her Dad did. She was a Daddy's girl and he neglected her during the A. She begged me to leave him during the time before she moved out as she saw me looking through phone and credit receipts. >>
> 
> 
> 
> There is great strength in being alone though. Only you can make yourself happy. I mean he can't make you happy. Even if he was perfect and everything was always perfect that can't make you happy. You are the only person who can be responsible for that.
> 
> << If he had been remorseful after the A 25 yrs. ago, told me what happened when I asked the questions, participated in therapy and also went to IC to see why he did it, things could have been so different, but he didn't. Of course, I'm off the subject matter. Yes, I can be alone, it's just hard when my daughter's are against me bringing this up and destroying the family unit. I know the old saying, that only I can make myself happy, but I don't totally agree with that. If he had been a better husband for all these past 25 yrs., not just the past yr. I could be happier. I did it pretty well for 20 yrs. after the A. It only started about 5 yrs. ago, with the stock market loss, no libedo on his part, daughter not paying her debt back. He ignored me, drank way to much, I left him once for being so drunk and our life was miserable. I thought he was having another A, but he wasn't. But it just made me think about everything again and I felt like it had just happened. If he had cooperated then, answered my questions as to why, how, where, etc. things he had never answered 25 yrs. ago, we wouldn't be where we are right now. So, I could have been happy again, maybe not like before the A, but I would have still loved him. >>
> 
> You still have a choice. I mean if you're not happy then you can make choices to be more happy.
> 
> <<I am so depressed that most days I don't even get dressed. No one realizes how down I am and the obsessive thoughts and triggers that I go through. I've been through depression before and this time it's really bad again. I have to get out of this bottomless pit first, then their can be hope for happiness.>>
> 
> Maybe start with no more zero days. Every day do something, anything, because doing nothing is terrible. Go on a walk and watch the leaves flutter, the birds eat garbage, maybe see a cat running around, and smile and say hi to people. Smiling is very important because it causes endorphins to be released in your brain and it will absolutely cheer you up! And when you smile at people it cheers them up! And then people smile back.
> 
> << You are so right and it takes all I can do to walk out of the front door. I don't even smile, unless I am around my grandchildren or other people. I don't smile when I am around him as I hate what he has done to me. But I know you are right in what you are saying and I hope to get there soon.>>
> 
> And every day you can go on that walk. As slow as you like. And you'll start to see the same people and they will smile first and you can't help but smile back.
> 
> << Let me get my medications and psychologist first, their is so much going on in my head that I can't even sleep at night. But I sure appreciate your advice and I know your right. >>
> 
> Every little thing helps.


<<I know, thanks for thinking about me.>>

Granny7


----------



## snerg

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> *He brings so much to the table and I don’t really bring anything. *
> 
> I always tried to do something special for him when I could just to let him how much appreciate, care and love him.*It never ever felt like it was enough.*
> 
> 
> *I have become somewhat dependent on husband and passive with him.*


These are major items which can make a person subconsciously be angry with or even hate someone. Something to bring up in IC




Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I will say this, my husband and I both have very weak boundaries and that’s where I think all has stared from.


Sorry to state the blindingly obvious, but you know you have weak boundaries. What weak boundaries does you husband have? Is this an attempt at a blame shift?

This could also be something to bring up in IC. This way you don't get stuck in a cognitive loop about "what he has done and what weak boundaries he has".

I had a friend who had an affair and she kept looping on all the bad things her husband did. It took her many months before she realized she was just stuck blaming him (thus justifying her affair).


----------



## Miss Taken

"Not feeling like he was good enough or what he did was ever enough." is one of the reasons my spouse cheated. The problem though, lies within himself. He had tremendously low self-esteem but hid it well by doing otherwise "manly" things and with false bravado.

What was real is that he was/is wounded inside from being cut down and ostracized by his mom who always regarded him as the black sheep or the "other son". He has never measured up to her the way his siblings do.

I think it's a good thing to explore in counseling. I'm glad your husband has come home.


----------



## BetrayedAgain7

OptimisticPessimist said:


> "There is no life of tomorrow now, and yesterday is the portrait of who will live today. My scarred portrait is beautiful, for it wears a smile wrought of living within each day passed. I would have no change, and I would have no fewer scars, for the beauty of today is worth its price.
> 
> Show me no pity. Scar me; for it is within all emotions I find life worthwhile: even in pain.
> 
> My greatest fear of today is that it might be empty, or nothing. So take from me, give to me, or share with me whatever you will; just don’t leave me alone.
> 
> I want to live."
> -GEU (my dad); 1934-1999


Beautiful! Thank you for sharing.


----------



## turnera

IMO, be prepared to just 'be' there for the next few weeks. No questions, no talk, no offers. Just be there, be silent, make his meals if he lets you, show him you're still the same woman and you're not going anywhere. Wouldn't hurt to let him see you crying, too.


----------



## Granny7

Granny7 said:


> <<I know, thanks for thinking about me.>>
> 
> Granny7


PS: I don't know how to post with it showing the quotes in pink. I have tried several times and no matter what I do, it doesn't work. I'm sorry it might be hard to read for everyone, I just use the inverted V's to separate the question's from my answer's.
If anyone can enlighten me, please feel free to do so.
Granny7


----------



## Imstrong123

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My husband came home today after been gone since Sunday. I am very confused right now after having him avoid and ignore me for the past weeks he’s acting very strange. It’s hard to explain he’s still not talking to me but he came home the same time he usually does played with the kids for a bit. Then we all eat dinner together as a family. After dinner we both help our kid’s with there homework and after that he help me put them to bed. We really didn’t talk much during but it was somewhat of a normal night. The tension was still there.
> 
> 
> 
> He’s down stairs right now watching the game. I kind of want to see if he wants to talk but he hasn’t really given me any signs so maybe he does want his space. He doesn’t look angry right now and he seemed ok. I don’t know acting pretty weird given the way he has been acting for the last few weeks.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Imstrong123

I agree, let him BE. He is in shock and trying to find out WTF to do with his emotions. At least he is there for the children, that tells you he is thinking about them and not only about his pain, he is a really great guy. Remember your need to explain, tell him, your need for his forgiveness...is NOT what's important here. Right now stop thinking about yourself and think about him your kids and the pain your actions inflicted. So, wait for him to be ready to talk. He will when he is ready. Give him that gift of peace, space and time. Try to act normal but not as if nothing's happened. Be completely open with him when he is ready to talk but I'd avoid giving out "details". If he absolutely needs them, then I suggest you do that in couples counseling. Just reinforce how you feel about him and the kids. As many times and as often he needs you to reinforce it.
Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vellocet

hospitality said:


> I've never been fond of the WS confessing without the BS insisting or being caught. I've always felt that the A was selfish and the confession to feel better is even more selfish. Here, OP has a one night stand essentially but was willing to ruin her husband and family to get rid of that guilt.
> 
> Does the WS OP really feel better after the confession?



Its not about the WS feeling better. Confessing isn't for the WS. Its for the BS. I would want to know the kind of person I am with, and as an x-BS, I can tell you too many years of my life were wasted because my x-wife decide it was better not to tell. She did so for her, not for me. She made the decision for me how my life will turn out. That decision should have been mine, not hers.





> Here, OP was willing to blow up her entire family for feel better which just doesn't make sense for a one night stand. There is something much greater going on that led to the one night stand.


The minute she strayed she blew up the family. Not her confession of it.


----------



## 2asdf2

Imstrong123 said:


> I agree, let him BE. -------------snip for brevity---------------------
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Don't let him be so much that he thinks you don't give a zhyt.




Imstrong123 said:


> -----------snip for brevity---------
> 
> Try to act normal but not as if nothing's happened. Be completely open with him when he is ready to talk but I'd avoid giving out "details". *If he absolutely needs them, then I suggest you do that in couples counseling.* Just reinforce how you feel about him and the kids. As many times and as often he needs you to reinforce it.
> Good luck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he asks, don't put him off. Doing it in counseling entails delay, and interposes a third party. 
I'd be pissed at that. 
I'd want to chase the answers right away and without outside interference.


----------



## mahike

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My husband came home today after been gone since Sunday. I am very confused right now after having him avoid and ignore me for the past weeks he’s acting very strange. It’s hard to explain he’s still not talking to me but he came home the same time he usually does played with the kids for a bit. Then we all eat dinner together as a family. After dinner we both help our kid’s with there homework and after that he help me put them to bed. We really didn’t talk much during but it was somewhat of a normal night. The tension was still there.
> 
> 
> 
> He’s down stairs right now watching the game. I kind of want to see if he wants to talk but he hasn’t really given me any signs so maybe he does want his space. He doesn’t look angry right now and he seemed ok. I don’t know acting pretty weird given the way he has been acting for the last few weeks.


I am glad to hear he came home but that does not mean he wants to R. He most likely came home for the kids. Allowing him his space is a good thing. Have you let him know that you have dropped school for now?

Getting yourself into MC also would be a good start. Does not matter if he goes or not, you need to start working on your issues.

When he sits and watches TV watch with him, keep the house up. If you go somewhere let him know when you go and return. leave your phone in plain sight and stay off of it as much as you can.


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## OptimisticPessimist

My advice: walk up to him and say "I will say this and then go away. I f***ed up. I know you need your space. I will give you as much as you need. If you wish to talk about it, or about anything, I am available. I will honor any choice you make, even if it is divorce. Know that I dont want that at all, but I am trying to accommodate you and be the wife I should have been. Im sorry. Your feelings are far more important than mine, so do not hesitate to ask or exclaim whatever you will whenever you need to."

Write it on a note if you dont feel you will have the time without him shutting you down, then hand it to him. He needs to know you are there for HIM and not for YOU. At the same time, he needs to know you are NOT pressuring him. Just IMO


----------



## Racer

If he is like me, just your physical presence changes me. My WW didn’t have to say a word. Just being in the same room, docile and non-confrontational helped me decide to reconcile. It was hardest when she wasn’t present or around. It was emotionally hard when she opened her mouth and spoke. Just be there so he knows that when he is ready, you are willing and really wanting to help him understand the unexplainable that is now his reality.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

snerg said:


> These are major items which can make a person subconsciously be angry with or even hate someone. Something to bring up in IC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to state the blindingly obvious, but you know you have weak boundaries. What weak boundaries does you husband have? Is this an attempt at a blame shift?
> 
> This could also be something to bring up in IC. This way you don't get stuck in a cognitive loop about "what he has done and what weak boundaries he has".
> 
> I had a friend who had an affair and she kept looping on all the bad things her husband did. It took her many months before she realized she was just stuck blaming him (thus justifying her affair).





It does bother me but I don’t hate or angry with him because of it.


My husband and I both have the same weak boundaries. We both like to flirt and the both of us do. We both always saw it as just having fun nothing really wrong with it. Now I see it can lead to serious problems and makes crossing other boundaries easier. I don’t think its blame shifting if it’s true and just because you have weak boundaries doesn’t mean you are going to cheat. I do it to so I don’t put the blame on him for what I did. That was all me.


----------



## F-102

Though I followed it from the beginning, I've been a silent lurker here... until now.

It sounds like you are beginning to blameshift, beginning to justify your ONS.

It's only a very, VERY short step until you start re-writing your marital history and start thinking:

"You know what? He is just as guilty as I am. He did some pretty bad things to me, too. Maybe I had the affair because subconsciously, I was getting back at him for the terrible way he treated me. Maybe he wasn't so innocent after all. Maybe I'm not such a bad wife after all. Come to think of it, I was just trying to get the attention that I wanted from him, the attention that he refused to give me. You know what? Maybe he DESERVED to have this happen to him. If he would have been a better husband, maybe I wouldn't have cheated..."


----------



## Paladin

F-102 said:


> Though I followed it from the beginning, I've been a silent lurker here... until now.
> 
> It sounds like you are beginning to blameshift, beginning to justify your ONS.
> 
> It's only a very, VERY short step until you start re-writing your marital history and start thinking:
> 
> "You know what? He is just as guilty as I am. He did some pretty bad things to me, too. Maybe I had the affair because subconsciously, I was getting back at him for the terrible way he treated me. Maybe he wasn't so innocent after all. Maybe I'm not such a bad wife after all. Come to think of it, I was just trying to get the attention that I wanted from him, the attention that he refused to give me. You know what? Maybe he DESERVED to have this happen to him. If he would have been a better husband, maybe I wouldn't have cheated..."


All successful true R eventually requires both spouses to examine their relationship as a whole, including the infidelity. They must identify and discard the dysfunctional parts, repair the parts that can be fixed, and nurture the parts that worked well. That requires reflection, and while I understand where you are coming from, examining what contributed to the breakdown of the relationship is not the same as blame shifting.

In some cases, one of the most difficult things for a WS/fWS to do is hold their spouse to account for maintaining healthy marital boundaries. Because of the guilt they feel, WS/fWS sometimes allow their spouses to behave in the exact ways we here on TAM say are bad. The worst examples are probably the ones where the fWS saw that there was behavior that indicated the possibility of a RA but did nothing to call it out or stop it. Reconciling after double damage is done is much harder. 

Even at the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, if the WS/fWS notices problematic behavior in their spouse they have to point it out, and come to an understanding about how to fix it. This task also requires the examination of the past, to identify what was dysfunctional.

Condoning flirting with anyone other than your spouse is a weak boundary and should most definitely be addressed in the future. Pointing out that it was wrong for both of them to accept weak boundaries as the status quo is far from pointing a finger at it and saying "see thats why I had an affair" and nothing in the language used by the OP so far even hints at wanting to justify her actions or blame anyone but herself.

Its almost a mantra here on TAM, the breakdown in the marriage is 50/50 the affair is 100% on the one that cheats. Well that first part is just as important as the last. In most successful R stories on TAM (ours included) both spouses are willing to examine everything without attacking each other, shifting blame, or looking for points to score.


----------



## Chris989

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> It does bother me but I don’t hate or angry with him because of it.
> 
> 
> My husband and I both have the same weak boundaries. We both like to flirt and the both of us do. We both always saw it as just having fun nothing really wrong with it. Now I see it can lead to serious problems and makes crossing other boundaries easier. I don’t think its blame shifting if it’s true and just because you have weak boundaries doesn’t mean you are going to cheat. I do it to so I don’t put the blame on him for what I did. That was all me.


Keep up being supportive with your husband. I have to say, no matter what you have done this has to be sorted. He isn't achieving anything by acting like a big kid.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

F-102 said:


> Though I followed it from the beginning, I've been a silent lurker here... until now.
> 
> It sounds like you are beginning to blameshift, beginning to justify your ONS.
> 
> It's only a very, VERY short step until you start re-writing your marital history and start thinking:
> 
> "You know what? He is just as guilty as I am. He did some pretty bad things to me, too. Maybe I had the affair because subconsciously, I was getting back at him for the terrible way he treated me. Maybe he wasn't so innocent after all. Maybe I'm not such a bad wife after all. Come to think of it, I was just trying to get the attention that I wanted from him, the attention that he refused to give me. You know what? Maybe he DESERVED to have this happen to him. If he would have been a better husband, maybe I wouldn't have cheated..."




No blame shifting or justification for what happened that was all on me. We both have weak boundaries but that doesn’t make you cheat. At the end of it you still have a choice. 


My husband isn’t prefect and he has made his share of mistakes in the past like I have were human it happens. With that being said my husband hasn’t done anything to make me want to cheat on him. He has been a great husband. I feel many posters are trying to find a way to connect why I did it with my husband when feel the reason why really doesn’t have anything to do with him


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Chris989 said:


> Keep up being supportive with your husband. I have to say, no matter what you have done this has to be sorted. He isn't achieving anything by acting like a big kid.


 Keep up being supportive with your husband. I have to say, no matter what you have done this has to be sorted. He isn't achieving anything by acting like a big kid.


I think your being a little too hard on him. It only has been a little over a week since I confessed. I think it’s unfair to say he’s acting like a big kid given the amount of time he has had to think about everything that has happened. Again my husband only in his mid 20’s cut him some slack


----------



## MattMatt

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> It does bother me but I don’t hate or angry with him because of it.
> 
> 
> My husband and I both have the same weak boundaries. We both like to flirt and the both of us do. We both always saw it as just having fun nothing really wrong with it. Now I see it can lead to serious problems and makes crossing other boundaries easier. I don’t think its blame shifting if it’s true and just because you have weak boundaries doesn’t mean you are going to cheat. I do it to so I don’t put the blame on him for what I did. That was all me.


So you are saying either one of you could have cheated?

But! Only one of you did. And it wasn't your husband.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

MattMatt said:


> So you are saying either one of you could have cheated?
> 
> But! Only one of you did. And it wasn't your husband.


Anyone can cheat on anyone if you choose to. Cheating a choice it just doesn’t happen out of nowhere.



I know I cheated and my husband hasn’t cheated. I was just answering a question someone asked


----------



## Mr Blunt

Un_Amor_Perdido


Things that I think may help:

You will have to treat him like a king and cater to his emotions in a very positive way. Understand and prepare yourself for him to treat you like a betrayer. This may seem unfair but it is the reality of cheating.


Build yourself up in every possible way so that you can take the emotional damage that you have done to yourself and his possible put downs of you he may show in his actions and words 


Prepare yourself as much as possible for this damage to be lived with with for years; it is not going away in months no matter you do.


If you are lucky enough for him to show you some nurturing and affection do not think that it will last; there will be times that he will distance himself from you; he will protect his emotions from you getting into them in a deep way.



If you two had a very strong bond, he is willing to work on the marriage, and you both can take emotional hell for a very long time then you can rebuild your marriage. You also, when able, should prepare yourself for your relationship to be so damaged that you will never have his complete trust and affections.


----------



## 2asdf2

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Keep up being supportive with your husband. I have to say, no matter what you have done this has to be sorted. He isn't achieving anything by acting like a big kid.
> 
> 
> I think your being a little too hard on him. It only has been a little over a week since I confessed. I think it’s unfair to say he’s acting like a big kid given the amount of time he has had to think about everything that has happened. Again my husband only in his mid 20’s cut him some slack


So, you think going for days without talking is a problem-solving technique?

Is he doling out punishment to you?

I guess the stop-talking routine is not new to you, or is it?

Is he accepting your little gifts of service? (cup of coffee, bring the paper, etc.)


----------



## Headspin

I still find this odd this 

This clearly is a woman like tears, different to rest of them, but I get the feeling people are trying almost to trip her up 

It seems some of us cannot cope when, albeit rarely, a wayward doesn't try to skip past the questions, doesn't blind side us.

She's really doing everything we would ask, demand and yet people almost cannot accept that

Seemed pretty clear at the start that was what it is, a woman who is on her knees doing everything she can to find her way back 

If she talks she's damned if she doesn't she's damned!

I s'pose from a betrayed point of view it's really as long as she's damned any way that's alright then ( and sure she does deserve some of that) but really I don't think she can do more than she is 

imo


----------



## The Middleman

I'm sorry Headspin, but I don't find the OP to be really different than any of the other WS's other than the fact she confessed vs. got caught. The similarities with Tears are striking. In Tears case, her husband did what I would do under the circumstances, he preserved his self respect and left the marriage. It does seem like the OP's husband is headed in the same direction. Just because someone is sorry for their crime doesn't mean you have to live with them. Anyway, the rough time the OP is getting is understandable.


----------



## Headspin

The Middleman said:


> I'm sorry Headspin, but I don't find the OP to be really different than any of the other WS's other than the fact she confessed vs. got caught. The similarities with Tears are striking. In Tears case, her husband did what I would do under the circumstances, he preserved his self respect and left the marriage. It does seem like the OP's husband is headed in the same direction. Just because someone is sorry for their crime doesn't mean you have to live with them. Anyway, the rough time the OP is getting is understandable.


No no I get it 

I'm as harsh as anybody on the regulation wayward drivel we usually see but those little facts you mention, confessing rather than being caught for example, in terms of reconciliation do make a huge difference imo.

I just feel people are being harsh for the 'usual' reasons which frankly here do not apply so readily


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Well, after a while, if we keep slamming her with the same things over and over, she's going to stop posting here.

I remember in Tear's thread, a bunch of newbie posters started accusing her of having a gang bang, and the like. They were banned, but Tear's had to of had second thoughts about posting here anymore. This OP now only posts a few times a day...

Is it because she has nothing new to add, or is she getting gun shy from the tone of some of our responses?

No one here has been that harsh, but I have to wonder when she'll have had enough of us constantly hitting her with the same 2x4s.

From what I can tell, she was undecided about confessing. Yes, I believe reading our post help sway her to tell her BS. But she was showing signs of how the guilt was already weighing on her. I think even with out us, she wouldn't have been able too live with the guilt for long and told him anyway.

She knows what she did. She knows how wrong it was. She's trying to deal with as best she can. If she says something that doesn't sound right to us, or is "out of line" with "our" general thinking - Of course we should let her know.

There's time's when it's better to hold a hand then to slap it.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

Headspin said:


> I still find this odd this
> 
> This clearly is a woman like tears, different to rest of them, but I get the feeling people are trying almost to trip her up
> 
> It seems some of us cannot cope when, albeit rarely, a wayward doesn't try to skip past the questions, doesn't blind side us.
> 
> She's really doing everything we would ask, demand and yet people almost cannot accept that
> 
> Seemed pretty clear at the start that was what it is, a woman who is on her knees doing everything she can to find her way back
> 
> If she talks she's damned if she doesn't she's damned!
> 
> I s'pose from a betrayed point of view it's really as long as she's damned any way that's alright then ( and sure she does deserve some of that) but really I don't think she can do more than she is
> 
> imo


Ive said it before and ill say it again- I feel many misconceptions have been born because she lacks the ability to subtly articulate specifics in terms of how she thinks or feels with the English language. English is her second language, and some people with the best intentions to "right" her thinking and have her take full responsibility are considering the semantics of how she writes and jumping on what would normally be blame-shifting, etc.. I am honestly surprised she hasn't disappeared from the forums yet... 

That said, I dont think anyone owes her anything. If I was the BS, I would have already filed for divorce and informed her of such. I would inform her that I will not bad mouth her to the kids, but that when they ask what happened, she will need to explain her infidelity in a way they can understand. I would inform her I will not be assigned blame for her actions. 

Gear up OP- your husband sounds like he's checked out and he's just waiting for the formalities to be finished before moving on. Also, be prepared to find a new place to live, new furniture, etc. 

I would like to note everyone handles things different- he could very well decide to reconcile and I could be very wrong- things like this are hard to predict. I hope for your sake he decides to R..


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Well, after a while, if we keep slamming her with the same things over and over, she's going to stop posting here.
> 
> I remember in Tear's thread, a bunch of newbie posters started accusing her of having a gang bang, and the like. They were banned, but Tear's had to of had second thoughts about posting here anymore. This OP now only posts a few times a day...
> 
> Is it because she has nothing new to add, or is she getting gun shy from the tone of some of our responses?
> 
> No one here has been that harsh, but I have to wonder when she'll have had enough of us constantly hitting her with the same 2x4s.
> 
> From what I can tell, she was undecided about confessing. Yes, I believe reading our post help sway her to tell her BS. But she was showing signs of how the guilt was already weighing on her. I think even with out us, she wouldn't have been able too live with the guilt for long and told him anyway.
> 
> She knows what she did. She knows how wrong it was. She's trying to deal with as best she can. If she says something that doesn't sound right to us, or is "out of line" with "our" general thinking - Of course we should let her know.
> 
> There's time's when it's better to hold a hand then to slap it.


I agree. Un_Amor_Perdido, stick with us here... the ultimate goal is to promote the ideals of a good marriage. While your husband may choose to move on, we are here to help you frame your perspective in a way that will make your next marriage/relationship one without the factors that destroyed this one.

Please try to understand the overtly brutal hits you've received here are often from people trying to deal with demons of their past; infidelity creates a lot of anger, and it leads the betrayed to feel utterly powerless- you have had that angst thrown against you. Again, I feel your language has fed the frenzy, so try to have compassion for our faults and we will do the same.

Keep us up to date, and hopefully for you if he's willing to R, we can help you show him without mixed signals what he needs to feel comfortable with you again.


----------



## Paladin

Headspin said:


> ...... different to rest of them, but I get the feeling people are trying almost to trip her up...
> ......She's really doing everything we would ask, demand and yet people almost cannot accept that......
> 
> .......from a betrayed point of view it's really as long as she's damned any way that's alright then.....


This exact topic was the reason this thread was 'heavily moderated' early on. There were baseless, overt and veiled attacks levied against the OP. From the opening post, the OP demonstrated that she understood the fundamental concepts people were attempting to beat her over the head with. Her behavior (self reported) has been in line with the requirements for R as typically discussed here on TAM.

Even after repeatedly being dragged though the mud across multiple posts on almost every page of this thread, she makes a conscious effort to ensure she doesnt seem defensive in her replies, or blame anyone other than herself for the affair.

Your observation about certain people simply being unable to accept anything short of abject failure by the WS has merit. Some are simply incapable of accepting the fact that not all WS/fWS are the same and some of them can actually do the right thing. 



The Middleman said:


> I'm sorry Headspin, but I don't find the OP to be really different than any of the other WS's other than the fact she confessed vs. got caught.


If you are truly incapable of seeing the difference between the way the OP has handled the situation so far vs the way "typical" WS do, I understand why you always claim that you would walk away without attempting to reconcile in order to preserve your "self respect," and please pardon me if ive made any assumptions, but you wont know what you will or will not do until you are facing the situation on your own. Many take a hard line stance and reevaluate their positions when they are faced with infidelity. 

Having a WS confess, without requiring the BS to suffer weeks/months of dysfunctional behavior as they get suspicious, investigate, and face Dday, is one of the biggest and most useful actions a WS can take early in the process to increase the chances for R. So much self doubt and second guessing are removed from the BS by the simple act of being told the truth without first asking for it, allowing for progress and healing to take their place. 

My wife came to me and confessed. It was a rough couple days, but getting suspicious and discovering it on my own would have been exponentially worse. Her willingness to confess and put herself out there for me to examine and pick apart was one of the biggest contributing factors in helping me decide on R. We are almost three years into R, and the same attitude and willingness for accountability that made her confess in the first place, has helped us pave the way to a better relationship than either one of us knew was possible. 



The Middleman said:


> The similarities with Tears are striking. In Tears case, her husband did what I would do under the circumstances, he preserved his self respect and left the marriage. It does seem like the OP's husband is headed in the same direction. Just because someone is sorry for their crime doesn't mean you have to live with them. Anyway, the rough time the OP is getting is understandable.


I've generally kept quiet about my opinions on Tear's story, but since it is drawing constant comparison, I wanted to share this.

Tear's thread describes a very particular situation. Her husband was an athlete and for all intents and purposes, a "player," when he and Tears met. She was a virgin, and he swept her off her feet. In my personal opinion, he was under some pressure from his family to settle down with the right woman, and decided that Tear's was it.

She was in love with him, deeply. He was her world. She got pregnant fairly early into their relationship, and subsequently became a mother. She describes motherhood as the most fulfilling thing she has ever experienced. He saw how much of her needs were met by being a mother, he was happy to go through the motions with her without putting in much effort into satisfying her needs. 

The ONLY fight they ever had in their relationship was when she wanted a third child, and he did not, about 6 months before her A. There is a large part of me that thinks this was intentionally done by him in the hopes of having her do exactly what she did, try to hurt him out of resentment by having a ONS with a POSOM. 

The second she came home and told him, he had his "get out of jail free and with the moral high ground card," the door couldnt open fast enough for him to walk out without so much as a glance back toward her or his kids. 

Is it that far of a stretch to think that a man who viewed himself as an athlete and a ladies man, would get bored after a while always having the same woman? (with no prior sexual experience) So I dont know if his exit could entirely be attributed to saving his "Self respect," or if it was multifaceted.

For the umpteenth time, humans a fallible creatures, they can, and usually do, learn from their mistakes. There are exceptions to this as well, and if you are dealing with a repeat offender, or serial cheater, then by all means, salvage your self respect and walk, but if you have a shot at examining the issues and working on the problem because there is a remorseful fWS, whats the harm in trying? Most wedding vows include for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, till death etc.. I don recall ever hearing "till one of you screws up in a bad way, and the other is tired of working on stuff."

None of what I say here condones infidelity in any way shape or form. So if some of you fell the need for swinging lumber, please do it without putting words in my mouth.


----------



## Headspin

OptimisticPessimist said:


> Ive said it before and ill say it again- I feel many misconceptions have been born because she lacks the ability to subtly articulate specifics in terms of how she thinks or feels with the English language. English is her second language, and some people with the best intentions to "right" her thinking and have her take full responsibility are considering the semantics of how she writes and jumping on what would normally be blame-shifting, etc.. I am honestly surprised she hasn't disappeared from the forums yet...
> 
> That said, I dont think anyone owes her anything. If I was the BS, I would have already filed for divorce and informed her of such. I would inform her that I will not bad mouth her to the kids,.......
> 
> Gear up OP- your husband sounds like he's checked out and he's just waiting for the formalities to be finished before moving on. Also, be prepared to find a new place to live, new furniture, etc.
> 
> I would like to note everyone handles things different- he could very well decide to reconcile and I could be very wrong- things like this are hard to predict. I hope for your sake he decides to R..


Quite, thing is I absolutely know in my bones when I'm reading on here, who is genuine, who is a troll who is hiding, who is trickling gaslighting etc etc. I could be wrong but to be perfectly honest I haven't been, as far as I know, in the years I've been on here. Even with her second language it's perfectly clear how she has dealt with this and what her intentions are and always were 



OptimisticPessimist said:


> but that when they ask what happened, she will need to explain her infidelity in a way they can understand. I would inform her I will not be assigned blame for her actions.


Exactly what I did with my situation, if my kids ask anything about it I have never not told them the truth albeit in a diluted, child friendly way as I will never be held up for what she has put us through especially as deflecting any of it always ends up as a defence of her ....uuuurgh


----------



## Headspin

Paladin said:


> This exact topic was the reason this thread was 'heavily moderated' early on. ...........
> 
> Your observation about certain people simply being unable to accept anything short of abject failure by the WS has merit. Some are simply incapable of accepting the fact that not all WS/fWS are the same and some of them can actually do the right thing.
> ........
> If you are truly incapable of seeing the difference between the way the OP has handled the situation so far vs the way "typical" WS do, I understand why you always claim that you would walk away w.........
> 
> My wife came to me and confessed. It was a rough couple days, but getting suspicious and discovering it on my own would have been exponentially worse. Her willingness to confess and put herself out there for me to examine and pick apart was one of the biggest contributing factors in helping me decide on R. ..........
> 
> I've generally kept quiet about my opinions on Tear's story, but since it is drawing constant comparison, I wanted to share this.
> 
> Tear's thread describes a very particular situation. Her husband was an athlete and for all intents and purposes, a "player," when he and Tears met. She was a virgin, and he swept her off her feet. In my personal opinion, he was under some pressure from his family to settle down with the right woman, and decided that Tear's was it.
> 
> She was in love with him, deeply. He was her world. She got pregnant fairly early into their relationship, and subsequently became a mother. She describes motherhood as the most fulfilling thing she has ever experienced. He saw how much of her needs were met by being a mother, he was happy to go through the motions with her without putting in much effort into satisfying her needs.
> 
> The ONLY fight they ever had in their relationship was when she wanted a third child, and he did not, about 6 months before her A. There is a large part of me that thinks this was intentionally done by him in the hopes of having her do exactly what she did, try to hurt him out of resentment by having a ONS with a POSOM.
> 
> The second she came home and told him, he had his "get out of jail free and with the moral high ground card," the door couldnt open fast enough for him to walk out without so much as a glance back toward her or his kids.
> 
> Is it that far of a stretch to think that a man who viewed himself as an athlete and a ladies man, would get bored after a while always having the same woman? (with no prior sexual experience) So I dont know if his exit could entirely be attributed to saving his "Self respect," or if it was multifaceted.
> 
> For the umpteenth time, humans a fallible creatures, they can, and usually do, learn from their mistakes. There are exceptions to this as well, and if you are dealing with a repeat offender, or serial cheater, then by all means, salvage your self respect and walk, but if you have a shot at examining the issues and working on the problem because there is a remorseful fWS, whats the harm in trying? Most wedding vows include for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, till death etc.. I don recall ever hearing "till one of you screws up in a bad way, and the other is tired of working on stuff."
> 
> None of what I say here condones infidelity in any way shape or form. So if some of you fell the need for swinging lumber, please do it without putting words in my mouth.


Good points Pal although I think you are being a bit harsh on tears' husband in that conclusion.

I think he highlighted what many of us thought we all would do but never have the courage to do - one strike and you're out 
Takes a particular type of strength to react and follow through like he did. 

For some people the 'once' is the deal breaker and they are gone 

I wish I had done as he did although again to be fair he was not dealing with a serial cheat and just as UAP has done here, tears instant confession and atonement I felt deserved maybe another look at it from his perspective but again you can never blame him for walking away.

Have to say it would be interesting to get an update from tears in her thread but looks like she is keeping it to herself. Fair enough


----------



## Dyokemm

Headspin,

I agree completely.

A BS can never be faulted for refusing to R and standing for their own pride and dignity to NEVER accept such a betrayal, no matter how remorseful the WS is and willing to help the BS heal.

Anyone who judges a BS who acts thus as harsh or wrong is very mistaken and doing a great disservice to a person already dealing with the worst betrayal possible.

No one 'deserves' a second chance...it is a gift,,,and the BS is under no obligation, no matter the positive attitude and demeanor of the WS, to give it.


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## warlock07

> The ONLY fight they ever had in their relationship was when she wanted a third child, and he did not, about 6 months before her A. There is a large part of me that thinks this was intentionally done by him in the hopes of having her do exactly what she did, try to hurt him out of resentment by having a ONS with a POSOM.
> 
> The second she came home and told him, he had his "get out of jail free and with the moral high ground card," the door couldnt open fast enough for him to walk out without so much as a glance back toward her or his kids.


Wow!! Seriously ?


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## OptimisticPessimist

Headspin said:


> Quite, thing is I absolutely know in my bones when I'm reading on here, who is genuine, who is a troll who is hiding, who is trickling gaslighting etc etc. I could be wrong but to be perfectly honest I haven't been, as far as I know, in the years I've been on here. Even with her second language it's perfectly clear how she has dealt with this and what her intentions are and always were


Agree to disagree  I really think language is a barrier here. She is good with English no doubt, but its the subtleties that I think lead people to misinterpret at times. 




Headspin said:


> Exactly what I did with my situation, if my kids ask anything about it I have never not told them the truth albeit in a diluted, child friendly way as I will never be held up for what she has put us through especially as deflecting any of it always ends up as a defence of her ....uuuurgh


Kudos to you for this. So many times does mud get slung both directions; it is so much better for your kids that you've taken the high road.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Things haven’t gotten any better. My husband finally asked to talk to me. It wasn’t the kind of conversation I wanted to have with him. We talked yesterday after we put the kids to sleep. We meet in the living room. He eventually came to and sat me down and said we needed to talk. We meet in the living room. I was so nervous because I thought he was going to present me with divorce papers or something. He said he did a lot of thinking and he stared off by saying he didn’t know what if he wanted if he wanted to stay or to file for divorce. After thinking about he came up with the idea of having a 3-6 month separation. So he could have a chance to think about what he really wants and he also wants to move out during the separation. He also already plans to move out by the end of the month. I told him didn’t want any kind of separation .I begged and pleaded with him to reconsider and I would anything he wanted if he stayed with me. He just looked at me and told me if I didn’t agree with separation then he would just go straight to divorce he got up and went to his room.

I don't know what to do, my heart is breaking, it seems I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I agree to the separation then it will just crush me, I love this man so much even though I know I did something stupid and it kills me. I just don’t know what to do, I keep begging him to think of another way to solve this and that I need him. He says I should have thought of that before I screwed another man and that this is all my doing. I know I have caused him unbelievable amount of pain and I know if I agree to this separation they’re a very good chance we won’t end up back together. I really want to let him also know I miss him so terribly and my heart is broken. We still live together, but I feel so far away from him now. I miss the little things he used, the way he would kiss me I miss his touch. I miss the way he used to look at me. I just can't stop crying. We don't sleep in the same bed anymore. I turn over during the middle of the night and I’m so used to him being there and now all I feel is just empty space and it just kills me inside. I see the pain in his face and it feels and it breaks my heart to know I’m the reason why, and then it feels worse when I realize he is probably hurting a lot more then I am and just the very idea of that kills me because what I'm feeling now is unbearable so I know I'm putting him through something that much worse then what i am feeling


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## bandit.45

You need to let him go. You need to give him the space he wants. Not really much else you can do. He's in the driver's seat.


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## Decorum

That is so hard to read, the pain that is filling both hearts, a possible broken family.

I am so sorry for all of you.

He has no choice in this, he can only let the pain run it course and manage it. Even if the two of you ultimately stay together he may always have to manage some pain.

You are right that a separation makes reconciliation less likely (not impossible though).

He does not want to hurt you, he must be a good man. It could be that he wants to separate to let his demons out without making you the target of his anger.

He may feel that he can be more objective then without having damaged you and the marriage even more during the process.

I don't know.


You have to work through your pain and responsibility as well, only after the smoke clears will you know what is left standing.

I really wish you well.
Take care!


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## jack.c

I WANT TO BE OPTIMISTIC about all this.... 
I sincerly beleive that your H. truly loves you. And i do beleive he will eventualy come back to you, but all this needs to happen 

I know.... its really hard, for both of you. But you need to undestand that for him its impossible to think for a R. if he is'nt truly convinced.
All you can do is make him happy telling him wants neede but also making sure that you are always ther for him... acepting the seperation will make him understand that although you dont agree, you are respecting his wishes.... and he will have time to manage to forgive you


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## rustytheboyrobot

UAP your old relationship is dead. Grieve for it. It's never coming back. You killed it and now it's gone from the Earth forever. But start that grieving process. It's not quick, it's not easy, but it is happening right now to you and your husband.

Maybe you can build a new relationship but it's going to be a hundred times harder. You'll have to do it while you are both suffering horribly. Your old relationship is forever gone though. It no longer exists.

So many are suffering that grief.


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## karole

I don't really have any advice, but I just want to say that I am so sorry for your husband, you and your kids. You sound like you deeply regret your decision. I hope things work out for you and your family.


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## Cynthia

If he wants to leave, let him leave. Respect him. Your husband needs your respect very much right now. You being needy and begging is only going to drive him further away. Tell him that you understand and will abide by his decision. Ask him if there is anything else you can do to help him. You two do need to talk about how you are going to financially deal with him moving out.


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## mahike

If your husband had come her telling us that he caught you in a PA. We would have told him to file for D right away and then decide if he really wanted a D or an R.

Have you started any type of MC yet? If not go let him know so if he wants to go he can if he does not want to go that is OK for now.

I wish you the best. Have you told your husband you have posted here? if so has he read your posts?


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

I'm not surprised, but it doesn't mean that he won't be back.

Just tell him that you understand why he's leaving. Remind him of how sorry you are every time you hang up the phone, or he leaves to go. Short and simple. After a while, he's either going to decide to stay apart, or come home.

If he comes home, you know what you need to do.

I'm really, REALLY hoping that your Husband will give you another chance. I've got my fingers crossed.


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## Tall Average Guy

CynthiaDe said:


> If he wants to leave, let him leave. Respect him. Your husband needs your respect very much right now. You being needy and begging is only going to drive him further away. Tell him that you understand and will abide by his decision. Ask him if there is anything else you can do to help him. You two do need to talk about how you are going to financially deal with him moving out.


I think you have to walk a fine line between defering to him and not being a doormat. I would apologize and tell him you will accept a separation, even though it is not what you want. 

But then have a real discussion about what separation means. How will finances be handled. Do you have access to his new place? Will he keep his key to your place? Will there be regular contact? If so, how and when? How will you handle the kids? What type of schedule does he envision? What about counseling? Will he be dating other women? Having sex with them? It will be painful, but much better to have everything out in the open so you both know where you stand.


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## terrence4159

i really believe you are sorry and remourseful.....but you cant say i love this guy when you cheated on him (thats how he is looking at it) your words mean nothing to him...your actions will do the speaking. 

if you loved him like you said you would not have started a ea that lead to a pa. i hope for him and you that he can come to a conclusion quickly.

right now you are screwed you have to do it his way. you have no control over this. do i agree a seperation is the wrong way to go if you want to R absolutley but im not him.


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## Cynthia

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think you have to walk a fine line between defering to him and not being a doormat. I would apologize and tell him you will accept a separation, even though it is not what you want.
> 
> But then have a real discussion about what separation means. How will finances be handled. Do you have access to his new place? Will he keep his key to your place? Will there be regular contact? If so, how and when? How will you handle the kids? What type of schedule does he envision? What about counseling? Will he be dating other women? Having sex with them? It will be painful, but much better to have everything out in the open so you both know where you stand.


Yes. I agree. You messed up, but that should not define you. You also have to be responsible for your life and know what is happening in it. That, after all, is why you confessed to your husband when he didn't have a clue what happened, because you honored him enough to tell him the truth about his life, so he could make decisions, now it is time for you to also honor yourself enough to know what is going on in your life to make good decisions for yourself and your children.
It is also important to consider what is and is not acceptable to you. You said that neither of you have good boundaries. Now is the time to start making some and sticking to them.


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## lovelygirl

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I told him *didn’t want* any kind of separation .I begged and pleaded with him to reconsider and I would anything he wanted if he stayed with me.


As much as this hurts, this is not about you and what you want, this is about HIM. 
Set your wishes/needs aside. They don't matter at the moment..

You don't have the luxury of choosing what to do and what not. You lost it the moment you decided to cheat. Now it's up to him. 

I hope things work out between you though. We can feel your remorse.


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## OptimisticPessimist

I have to say I disagree with most of the advice in regards to the seperation. My first thought was:
"Noooooooo Un_Amor.... nooo.. hes going to take that as you being selfish AGAIN, even if you have the best intentions! You should have TAKEN the seperation! Its better than nothing or better than coming off as selfish." **EDIT** I want to stress it is NOT my intention to implicitly insult anyone by saying I disagree with their advice. Sometimes I agree with part of what someone says, and I would venture to guess the same applies to others in relation to me. 

I think she should have immediately agreed to the separation and said something along the lines of "I really dont want this at all, but if its the only chance I have to make this up to you, then I accept... I want you to know I know I f*cked up and I love you." 

I had him pegged as a man who was going to walk in one day and say "here's the papers- we need to figure out custody and you need to move out." 

Instead, he actually talked to her and told her he wasn't sure if he could accept it. I feel her reaction only further convinced him she cares more about herself than she does him, even if thats not the case. I do understand that separation is not a good chance (and we strive to avoid it here on TAM), but in this case it was the ONLY chance.

Un_Amor_Perdido, here's my advice- write him a note NOW that says in spanish something like this: "I heard what you had to say earlier. I reacted poorly because I dont want to lose you, but this isn't about my emotional wants- its about you finding happiness again after my f*ck up. I will grant the separation if that's what you need. I am open to talk about anything whenever you want. I hope you come back to "us," but I support whatever decision you make."

This gives him something to LOOK AT. He can see over and over your willingness to put him first.

That's all I got. I wish your husband the best. I do feel really bad for you- I think despite it all you are remorseful. If it doesn't work, focus on staying cordial for what you owe him and especially for your kids. Best of luck...


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## Cynthia

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I have to say I disagree with most of the advice in regards to the seperation. My first thought was:


I don't see where the disagreement is. Everyone agrees that she should take the separation.
One thing should be clarified, when a person making such a colossal mistake that does not mean they no longer have a right to participate in making choices for their own life. In fact, it means they need to take their choices very seriously to ensure a better future.


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## OptimisticPessimist

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't see where the disagreement is. Everyone agrees that she should take the separation.
> One thing should be clarified, when a person making such a colossal mistake that does not mean they no longer have a right to participate in making choices for their own life. In fact, it means they need to take their choices very seriously to ensure a better future.


Thank you. I worded it very poorly, and honestly what I said in regards to your quoted sentence makes no sense. Ill leave it as it is above to illustrate why my stupidity caused your response 

I meant to note that it seems noone jumped on the fact that rather than immediately accepting the separation, she defaulted to begging for what she wanted- him not to leave. Going back now and accepting it has INFINITELY less value than if she had accepted it on the spot and coupled it with the statement "I dont want this to happen, but..." 

I understand she is in a really emotional spot right now, but the subtleties are KILLING her chances even though she is one of the very FEW that are truly remorseful. She keeps reacting in the moment instead of having a thought out plan for what he might do (of which we told her prior this was a possibility), and it results in her husband having an image of her being unable to rise above being a "cheater" because her default is to consider herself first. I know this isnt the case- her pain is clear as day above. This is exactly in line with what you mentioned by saying "In fact, it means they need to take their choices very seriously to ensure a better future," which I agree with 105%. 

In terms of the making choices part, I agree, but right now it has to be about him right? Im open to discussion here...


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## Shoshannah

CynthiaDe said:


> If he wants to leave, let him leave. Respect him. Your husband needs your respect very much right now. You being needy and begging is only going to drive him further away. Tell him that you understand and will abide by his decision. Ask him if there is anything else you can do to help him. You two do need to talk about how you are going to financially deal with him moving out.


 I agree. He needs your respect more than anything now. And to know you love him enough to let him figure this out. He probably sees you as selfish for begging when he is hurting so much. You must give him space! Every day that you beg and hang onto him drives him that much further away.

I feel very badly for you and see genuine remorse. That will be your best ally. But please, please let him see you as giving and self sacrificing at least a little right now. He does stand to lose something by losing his family. That will sink in if he's allowed to grieve on his own. Whether or not that is enough to bring him back remains to be seen, but its your best chance. Let him think.

I want to see this have a happy ending for both of you. Please think of him first always. If you truly love him, you will put him first. Stop begging.


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## Forest

Funny how the word "fair" comes up so much during the breakup of relationships caused by adultery.


----------



## jim123

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Things haven’t gotten any better. My husband finally asked to talk to me. It wasn’t the kind of conversation I wanted to have with him. We talked yesterday after we put the kids to sleep. We meet in the living room. He eventually came to and sat me down and said we needed to talk. We meet in the living room. I was so nervous because I thought he was going to present me with divorce papers or something. He said he did a lot of thinking and he stared off by saying he didn’t know what if he wanted if he wanted to stay or to file for divorce. After thinking about he came up with the idea of having a 3-6 month separation. So he could have a chance to think about what he really wants and he also wants to move out during the separation. He also already plans to move out by the end of the month. I told him didn’t want any kind of separation .I begged and pleaded with him to reconsider and I would anything he wanted if he stayed with me. He just looked at me and told me if I didn’t agree with separation then he would just go straight to divorce he got up and went to his room.
> 
> I don't know what to do, my heart is breaking, it seems I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I agree to the separation then it will just crush me, I love this man so much even though I know I did something stupid and it kills me. I just don’t know what to do, I keep begging him to think of another way to solve this and that I need him. He says I should have thought of that before I screwed another man and that this is all my doing. I know I have caused him unbelievable amount of pain and I know if I agree to this separation they’re a very good chance we won’t end up back together. I really want to let him also know I miss him so terribly and my heart is broken. We still live together, but I feel so far away from him now. I miss the little things he used, the way he would kiss me I miss his touch. I miss the way he used to look at me. I just can't stop crying. We don't sleep in the same bed anymore. I turn over during the middle of the night and I’m so used to him being there and now all I feel is just empty space and it just kills me inside. I see the pain in his face and it feels and it breaks my heart to know I’m the reason why, and then it feels worse when I realize he is probably hurting a lot more then I am and just the very idea of that kills me because what I'm feeling now is unbearable so I know I'm putting him through something that much worse then what i am feeling


A Lost Love,

Do not give up. Keep fighting. Do not do what Tears thing which was not to fight.


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## turnera

More than anything right now, he needs to see you not giving up. Doing as he asks, but not leaving.


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## loveforfamily

I am sorry you are both hurting. Right now you will have to fight for him. You won't be able to tell him to come up with something. You have to do a lot of the work. Search for ways to save the marriage. Offer ideas to him. The load of work is on you. You have to process your hurt because in reality your hurt for what you did to him is not his business. He has his own to process. I wish you both the best of luck and a possible R.


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## LongWalk

OP,

Do you speak in Spanish with him at all?

If he moves out, will you propose that you share an apartment and shuttle back and forth to be with your children?


----------



## m0nk

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Things haven’t gotten any better. My husband finally asked to talk to me. It wasn’t the kind of conversation I wanted to have with him. We talked yesterday after we put the kids to sleep. We meet in the living room. He eventually came to and sat me down and said we needed to talk. We meet in the living room. I was so nervous because I thought he was going to present me with divorce papers or something. He said he did a lot of thinking and he stared off by saying he didn’t know what if he wanted if he wanted to stay or to file for divorce. After thinking about he came up with the idea of having a 3-6 month separation. So he could have a chance to think about what he really wants and he also wants to move out during the separation. He also already plans to move out by the end of the month. I told him didn’t want any kind of separation .I begged and pleaded with him to reconsider and I would anything he wanted if he stayed with me. He just looked at me and told me if I didn’t agree with separation then he would just go straight to divorce he got up and went to his room.
> 
> I don't know what to do, my heart is breaking, it seems I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I agree to the separation then it will just crush me, I love this man so much even though I know I did something stupid and it kills me. I just don’t know what to do, I keep begging him to think of another way to solve this and that I need him. He says I should have thought of that before I screwed another man and that this is all my doing. I know I have caused him unbelievable amount of pain and I know if I agree to this separation they’re a very good chance we won’t end up back together. I really want to let him also know I miss him so terribly and my heart is broken. We still live together, but I feel so far away from him now. I miss the little things he used, the way he would kiss me I miss his touch. I miss the way he used to look at me. I just can't stop crying. We don't sleep in the same bed anymore. I turn over during the middle of the night and I’m so used to him being there and now all I feel is just empty space and it just kills me inside. I see the pain in his face and it feels and it breaks my heart to know I’m the reason why, and then it feels worse when I realize he is probably hurting a lot more then I am and just the very idea of that kills me because what I'm feeling now is unbearable so I know I'm putting him through something that much worse then what i am feeling


I agree that he needs his space right now to process. Be available for him mentally and physically, but most of all, be available for your children. Kids are perceptive and can pick up on all these emotions. While he decides, envelop yourself in THEM to ground yourself when things seem lost. Put yourself in their shoes and in your husband's shoes; empathy goes a long way. Best of luck to your family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

mahike said:


> If your husband had come her telling us that he caught you in a PA. We would have told him to file for D right away and then decide if he really wanted a D or an R.
> 
> Have you started any type of MC yet? If not go let him know so if he wants to go he can if he does not want to go that is OK for now.
> 
> I wish you the best. Have you told your husband you have posted here? if so has he read your posts?


I haven’t stared MC yet I have been going to IC although I did miss this week’s appointment. I think of asking him tonight if he would be willing to attend counselling with me I was going to do it a few days ago but the talk we had set me back.

I have told my husband about this site and sent him a link via email. Although he doesn’t know I’m posting so if he has found my thread then yeah I guess he could have read my post but I don’t think he has.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think you have to walk a fine line between defering to him and not being a doormat. I would apologize and tell him you will accept a separation, even though it is not what you want.
> 
> But then have a real discussion about what separation means. How will finances be handled. Do you have access to his new place? Will he keep his key to your place? Will there be regular contact? If so, how and when? How will you handle the kids? What type of schedule does he envision? What about counseling? Will he be dating other women? Having sex with them? It will be painful, but much better to have everything out in the open so you both know where you stand.



We haven’t had any discussion about the separation. We have been kind of avoiding each other since the talk. So don’t know how will handle finances or how the schedule with the kids. Same goes for new place I don’t know where he’s moving too I believe it could be with his brother but I’m not sure and where ever he moves to I doubt I will have any access to his new places why would I. He will have access to our house since it’s still his house as well as mine. I believe the reason for him wanting a separation is to see what’s out there and probably will date other women and that scares me. I know I still have to have another talk about this I’m hoping we have a chance to talk tonight


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

LongWalk said:


> OP,
> 
> Do you speak in Spanish with him at all?
> 
> If he moves out, will you propose that you share an apartment and shuttle back and forth to be with your children?



We do speak to each other in Spanish but most of the time it’s in English since our kids only speak English.

I don’t know how we will share the kids during the separation yet we haven’t talked about it yet.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> We haven’t had any discussion about the separation. We have been kind of avoiding each other since the talk. So don’t know how will handle finances or how the schedule with the kids. Same goes for new place I don’t know where he’s moving too I believe it could be with his brother but I’m not sure and where ever he moves to I doubt I will have any access to his new places why would I. He will have access to our house since it’s still his house as well as mine. I believe the reason for him wanting a separation is to see what’s out there and probably will date other women and that scares me. I know I still have to have another talk about this I’m hoping we have a chance to talk tonight


I won't pretend that you will have fun discussing these issues. But they need to be addressed. You both have a kid to take care of. You screwed up big time, but now is where you start being an adult. Part of that is enforcing your boundaries and urging him to enforce his.



> I haven’t stared MC yet I have been going to IC although I did miss this week’s appointment. I think of asking him tonight if he would be willing to attend counselling with me I was going to do it a few days ago but the talk we had set me back.


I see no harm in asking. It tells him you are working to fix yourself.


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## Cynthia

Giving him space and respecting him doesn't mean living in darkness. It is important for you to know what your life looks like and what the boundaries are. If he goes out and has sex with another woman, that would be just as bad as what you did. How would you feel about that? 
This is not as much about what is fair as about what your responsibilities are to yourself and to your family.


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## hospitality

CynthiaDe said:


> Giving him space and respecting him doesn't mean living in darkness. It is important for you to know what your life looks like and what the boundaries are. If he goes out and has sex with another woman, that would be just as bad as what you did. How would you feel about that?
> This is not as much about what is fair as about what your responsibilities are to yourself and to your family.


These are all very real questions that with either make or break you relationship. Try to lay out ground rules best you can.

I got married fairly early and when I was young all my friends had money because they were single, no kids and went out seven nights a week. I put 100% into my wife and our relationship. I took a career path that I hated because it paid well enough to put my wife through graduate school and buy a house. I would hear all the wild sex stories my friends had, the amazing vacations they just had with single girls and while I was home painting our house. 

I don't reset those years at all and what I did at that age. But had my wife come to me at that age with the info you laid down on your husband I can guarantee you that I would have made up for serious lost time when it came to women, play time and being irresponsible. That's why I though it was such lousy advice to to tell your husband.

Fast forward 15 years I probably would be really pissed off for several months but we have to much history to let a stupid mistake ruin our life together. Your husband at his age has really stepped up to the plate being a husband and father but now he has to deal with this compared to what most guys his age are dealing with and getting. 

I'm sure he will have an f-it attitude for sure for sometime. So the more precise your separation is the better your chances are to make it.


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## Cynthia

hospitality said:


> I don't reset those years at all and what I did at that age. But had my wife come to me at that age with the info you laid down on your husband I can guarantee you that I would have made up for serious lost time when it came to women, play time and being irresponsible. That's why I though it was such lousy advice to to tell your husband.


If we make our decisions based on controlling other people's behavior, that's not right. People need to know the truth about their lives. She did the right thing. She knew he might leave her over it, but her action was not in order to relieve her guilt or to control her husband, it was to give him the right to know about his life and to decide what he wants to do based on reality.
Now that the whole thing has blown up, it is time for the OP to talk to her husband about the boundaries they will have, whether he wants to talk about them or not. There are children involved and ignoring the situation is not good for them. The husband has had time to think and calm down, now it's time to discuss how to handle this new reality in a way that is healthy for all.


----------



## larry.gray

CynthiaDe said:


> Now that the whole thing has blown up, it is time for the OP to talk to her husband about the boundaries they will have, whether he wants to talk about them or not. There are children involved and ignoring the situation is not good for them. The husband has had time to think and calm down, now it's time to discuss how to handle this new reality in a way that is healthy for all.


I won't try to dissuade her from attempting the talk. It's worth a shot. But don't be surprised if he responds with anger. I'd also suggest to be prepared for him to answer with things you don't want to hear.

Decide before you ask how you'll respond if he informs you that he does indeed intend to fool around.


----------



## F-102

You have to let him deal with this in his own time. Again, he will talk when he's ready.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

F-102 said:


> You have to let him deal with this in his own time. Again, he will talk when he's ready.


While I understand this advise from the view of a betrayed spouse, he is also a father. He has to talk, at least about arrangements for the near future if he moves out. She needs to start the discussion and figure out logistics until he makes a more concrete decision. She does not need to push on R, but does need to set up how they are going to interact, how he can see the children and what are each others expectations.


----------



## 86857

The Middleman said:


> I'm sorry Headspin, but I don't find the OP to be really different than any of the other WS's other than the fact she confessed vs. got caught.


I disagree and here's why 
- The fact that she confessed rather than got caught makes her different from almost every WS on TAM. 

- She wrote a letter detailing everything that happened. No trickle truth. Rare. 

- She stopped seeing OM immediately. 

- She was 100% remorseful from her very first post. She took the advice and confessed and pretty quickly. 

- She has felt 110% guilty since it happened, the PA part that is because that leads to the negative. 

OK, on the negative side. This was more than a ONS because she was having an EA with OM. Deep down she knew it was wrong but dismissed it because she wanted to stay friends with him and it hadn't gone PA - happens in all EAs. So it went PA which woke her up to herself. She came on here, was urged to confess and she did. 

A WS is a WS but as it goes with NC, full confession, no trickle truth, 100% remorse, 100% guilt, no blameshifting, rugsweeping and all those other things, she's got to be one of the 'better' WS on TAM.

So OP for what it's worth, it's only a couple of weeks since D-day. He is still in shock and his first reaction will be to run away. All you can do is gently and insistently, ask him not to leave. But if he leaves, you can't stop him. Stay calm and loving as he leaves while telling him you want him to stay. Stay calm & loving when he comes to see the kids and just tell him gently all you want is for him to come home. You must fight for him but crying may not be effective. When people instead talk in a low calm voice, they are much more likely to be listened to. 

If he does move out he may date others. Again there is nothing you can do. He may not date, or he may date for a while or he may meet someone. . . it's impossible to say. There is no easy way around that for you but when he comes to visit the twins I think it would be better not to bring it up in case he hasn't. If he hasn't, he will throw it back at you and say he's not like you.

But if he does move out, he will also miss the twins, and his home and you. This is the hope you must hang on to. 

I have a few Latin friends and as another poster said, it seems far more accepted for a man to stray than for a woman. BUT, my opinion is that a Latin man would NOT like if you were living with your twins and a new husband which may happen if he divorces you. You are both young. If you divorce both of you will almost certainly remarry.

Tell him if you divorce, you will be dropping the twins to his house where he lives with his new wife and he will be returning them to your house where you live with your new husband as you are both so young it will probably happen. Tell him it's the last thing you want. Tell him you want to stay with him forever and bring up your beautiful children. 

You both got married so young. You were still children yourselves. Yet you have done so well bringing up your twins having become parents when most college 'kids' were heading into 5-10 years of partying. So kudos to both of you for that. 

Just keep telling him gently you want him to stay, you will never ever repeat your mistake and you will do anything to help him to get past this. Also remember that R will require endless patience from you because it usually takes a very long time.


----------



## tulsy

********** said:


> ....
> A WS is a WS but as it goes with NC, full confession, no trickle truth, 100% remorse, 100% guilt, no blameshifting, rugsweeping and all those other things, she's got to be one of the 'better' WS on TAM.....


:iagree:


----------



## cpacan

********** said:


> ... snip from a good post ...
> ... Just keep telling him gently you want him to stay, you will never ever repeat your mistake and you will do anything to help him to get past this. Also remember that R will require endless patience from you because it usually takes a very long time.


One thing about this is though. Saying "I will never do it again...." sounds hollow, and even more so, if you can't provide the reasons why it couldn't happen again to back it up.

I know an MC who once said: "If only more people thought it could happen to them, there wouldn't be so much infidelity"


----------



## Granny7

CynthiaDe said:


> If we make our decisions based on controlling other people's behavior, that's not right. People need to know the truth about their lives. She did the right thing. She knew he might leave her over it, but her action was not in order to relieve her guilt or to control her husband, it was to give him the right to know about his life and to decide what he wants to do based on reality.
> Now that the whole thing has blown up, it is time for the OP to talk to her husband about the boundaries they will have, whether he wants to talk about them or not. There are children involved and ignoring the situation is not good for them. The husband has had time to think and calm down, now it's time to discuss how to handle this new reality in a way that is healthy for all.


CynthiaDe,
I agree with you so much on your comment. People should always deserve the truth, if it involves them and their lives. It's so unfair to lie to them, when it's their life and they have a right to decide how they want to live it and whom they want to live it with!

I hate "trickle truth" as it just puts you through everything again and that's so unfair! You just hurt over and over again. My CS did that to me and he did it so I wouldn't leave him. Again, selfishness of the part of the cheater, along with more lies. It still amazes me 25 yrs. later how the person that is suppose to love you, can look you in the face and directly lie to you? You took your vows with that person and now you don't even know who that person is. Very sad!

I think the BS should always be told the truth. Stand up for your mistake and for once, think of what you have done to totally destroy the lives that you have hurt. I'm not directing this to one particular person, but to anyone on here that is going through telling someone about an A.

I also meant to say, if you haven't told someone the whole truth and I mean everything that they want to know, or the questions that they are asking, no matter how small, TELL THEM, PLEASE! You know what happened during the A or UNS, but they know nothing! I would have like to have been a "Fly On The Wall" not that it would be pleasant, but at least I would have known everything my CH did with the OW. Even as I tried to sleep tonight the thoughts were racing through my mind. Did you hold her this way, did he kiss the back of her neck, how often did he tell her he loved her? So many questions, yet he would never tell me. I asked over 25 yrs. ago and still couldn't get the answer's, he would lie. I'd get 3 different answer's for the same question, according to when I would ask it. Now 25 yrs. later, he claims to have put it out of his mind and really doesn't remember what they did in the motel room or in bed? I don't buy it! So, that's why anyone who has been responsible for an A, the least you can do is answer any questions that they ask. If they don't want to talk to you, leave them alone. Do what ever they ask and do it nicely, you owe them everything as you have hurt them more than you will ever know. Unless it's done to you, you'll never know the pain of betrayal. So keep that in mind, your pain is 1/10 of what they are going through and you had a choice and you made it. They had no say so in what you did, didn't deserve it and now they are faced with a choice that affects their whole life and it's the hardest one they will ever have to make. Even if they choose to stay, things are never the same and the marriage will never be like they thought it would when they married you. So you will have to have a lot of patience, as it's going to be a long, painful road ahead for everyone.

Granny7


----------



## Headspin

Difficult for all in this 

One thing you UAP will not 'get' is the element of 'time' and how that works 

This is super raw just a couple of weeks. I know that in your eyes a minute seems like a day and a day a week a week a year etc etc and that you want to right the wrong *now* - yesterday

You simply have to accept this pain. Sure you've caused it and effectively deserve it and I know you accept that - but it is still pain and it hurts and you want it to end NOW 

You have to understand it will take much longer than this.

You can see from some people here that they are still dealing with this stuff 20 years later.

It's a waiting game I'm afraid and as difficult as it is just try to get on with the normal things of your life the kids takes full focus and leave your husband to himself. Be there when he needs and hopefully in time when he wants to really open up about it all you can be there and be ready 

This hurts like you will never believe but maybe all I can say is just try to maintain some dignity and know there are some people who do empathize with your plight


----------



## Granny7

Headspin said:


> Difficult for all in this
> 
> One thing you UAP will not 'get' is the element of 'time' and how that works
> 
> This is super raw just a couple of weeks. I know that in your eyes a minute seems like a day and a day a week a week a year etc etc and that you want to right the wrong *now* - yesterday
> 
> You simply have to accept this pain. Sure you've caused it and effectively deserve it and I know you accept that - but it is still pain and it hurts and you want it to end NOW
> 
> You have to understand it will take much longer than this.
> 
> You can see from some people here that they are still dealing with this stuff 20 years later.
> 
> It's a waiting game I'm afraid and as difficult as it is just try to get on with the normal things of your life the kids takes full focus and leave your husband to himself. Be there when he needs and hopefully in time when he wants to really open up about it all you can be there and be ready
> 
> This hurts like you will never believe but maybe all I can say is just try to maintain some dignity and know there are some people who do empathize with your plight


Headspin,
You couldn't have said it any better. Even if it's a ONS, it hurts as bad as a 3 yr. E/A. Any betrayal is like stabbing someone in the heart with a knife. It never totally heals, their are always triggers that bring it back. If you make it through and both are willing to work on the marriage, their are always going to be setbacks for a long time. I mean years, not months.

UAP, I know you have been honest and you are to be commended for that. I wish my CH had told me, not getting the love letter's from the OWH, that was rough. I would have had more respect for my CH if he had the guts to tell me, like a man, not hear it from someone else. On that note, UAP, your Husbands life has been shattered by just one mistake, but he is in such pain now. For him to just walk out the door without even saying anything, speaks volumn's. I think you are lucky that he even came back, so count your blessings and give him space or whatever he wants. That is the least you can do right now. I wish the both for both of you.

Granny7


----------



## LongWalk

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> We do speak to each other in Spanish but most of the time it’s in English since our kids only speak English.
> 
> I don’t know how we will share the kids during the separation yet we haven’t talked about it yet.


Can you delivery any of your thoughts or messages differently in one language or the other?


----------



## Fenix

Headspin said:


> Difficult for all in this
> 
> One thing you UAP will not 'get' is the element of 'time' and how that works
> 
> This is super raw just a couple of weeks. I know that in your eyes a minute seems like a day and a day a week a week a year etc etc and that you want to right the wrong *now* - yesterday
> 
> You simply have to accept this pain. Sure you've caused it and effectively deserve it and I know you accept that - but it is still pain and it hurts and you want it to end NOW
> 
> You have to understand it will take much longer than this.
> 
> You can see from some people here that they are still dealing with this stuff 20 years later.
> 
> It's a waiting game I'm afraid and as difficult as it is just try to get on with the normal things of your life the kids takes full focus and leave your husband to himself. Be there when he needs and hopefully in time when he wants to really open up about it all you can be there and be ready
> 
> This hurts like you will never believe but maybe all I can say is just try to maintain some dignity and know there are some people who do empathize with your plight


Yes. There is a new normal now. You will have to WORK every day on this and tell him that you will work to make sure it never happens again.

I am sorry you made the choice you did. These are the consequences. Having said that, I really hope you get a second chance.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

My husband and I still haven’t talked about how the separation will work. We both plan to have this conversation tonight. He has told me where he will be moving to. He plans to move in with his brother. That’s pretty much all I know right now. I have told I would rather he still here with me and the kids and try to rebuild our marriage he has never actually said no but he isn’t sure if that’s what he want. I fear when he actually moves out things might change and may follow through with the divorce. 

I made a list of different marriage counselors I would like us to go see. I give him the yesterday and asked him if he was willing to go with me. He did say no but he took the list and I wrote a letter go with it so I hoping he read it. I wanted to set my appointment with a MC but our insurance will only cover counseling for the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. And I can’t afford to pay for both IC and MC on my own. I’m going to ask my parents if they would be willing to help me cover it and I will promise to pay them back.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

LongWalk said:


> Can you delivery any of your thoughts or messages differently in one language or the other?


Its weird at time prefer to speak English over Spanish. And at times I feel it comes easier. I think it’s mostly because I don’t really speak Spanish only with my parents besides that I mostly speak English. Although I do write Spanish better than English.


----------



## Headspin

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My husband and I still haven’t talked about how the separation will work. We both plan to have this conversation tonight. *He has told me where he will be moving to. He plans to move in with his brother. That’s pretty much all I know right now.* I have told I would rather he still here with me and the kids and try to rebuild our marriage he has never actually said no but he isn’t sure if that’s what he want. I fear when he actually moves out things might change and may follow through with the divorce.
> 
> I made a list of different marriage counselors I would like us to go see. I give him the yesterday and asked him if he was willing to go with me. He did say no but he took the list and I wrote a letter go with it so I hoping he read it. I wanted to set my appointment with a MC but our insurance will only cover counseling for the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. And I can’t afford to pay for both IC and MC on my own. I’m going to ask my parents if they would be willing to help me cover it and I will promise to pay them back.


My God! that is the same as tears I think. I think her BS moved to his brothers.

Look it's hard but you can only do as you do. Understanding you will be towed in the 'wake' of 
the infidelity is important. You will obviously feel helpless and it'll be like being pulled behind a F1 racing car in the slipstream but sadly there are no alternative responses open to you. 

Just hang on and see where it leads. 

__________

May I ask 

What's happened in terms of your parents, his parents family friends ? Do they all know what's happened? 

What's the feedback you get from everybody close to you who knows you both well ? Can you gauge from their reactions how your husband will proceed?

How well do you know his brother ? etc etc


----------



## Racer

Ok, probably not advice many here will agree with since they are too close to that pain as a betrayed. But you need to fight to increase your chances that the marriage will survive. By this I mean you don’t want to give him space. You don’t want him alone with his thoughts. You don’t want him out there window shopping his options. So you are going to have to in his face all the time. 

It’s going to be rough, but don’t let him run. Your default because you do feel remorse and do somewhat see this as what you deserve for what you did, is to give up all control and do what he thinks he needs to do. It allows so much distance and demonizing of you and your actions to the point where they define who you are as a person. Don’t allow specific things to define you as a whole. What you need to do is trigger those other times so he remembers ALL of you; not just the bad things. You can’t do that if you aren’t in the picture. That’s why he is going… as long as you can keep him split and on the fence, you have a chance.

So, you need to also start thinking in terms of “what is best for the relationship?”; Living apart, dividing stuff, etc. are never in the best interest of rebuilding. Would that ever be the advice you’d give to a friend struggling with a marriage issue? “Move out and create a parenting plan?” Nope. That’s the advice you’d give someone to end a relationship and divorce or how to break up. Or for the really shallow, some delusional fantasy that you should do it to force that other person to miss you and come pursuing… The reality is it seldom works like that; both of you discover that while you do miss each other, there are others out there that you can bond with too. You really don’t “need” each other. You have to “want” each other and what that person adds to your life. Distance creates that space between you when what you want is more closeness and bonding; how are they going to add to your life if they aren’t in it?

You need to create a game plan.


----------



## LongWalk

Agree with Racer. Reach out. You honestly spilled your guts to him. That is indisputable evidence of your conscience.

Who does the cooking in your home? No matter, tell me you are making his favorite meal. Tell him the time to come. If he doesn't come. Repeat it. 

Send him a picture of the two of you earlier in your relationship.


----------



## 86857

Racer said:


> Ok, probably not advice many here will agree with since they are too close to that pain as a betrayed. But you need to fight to increase your chances that the marriage will survive. By this I mean you don’t want to give him space. You don’t want him alone with his thoughts. You don’t want him out there window shopping his options. So you are going to have to in his face all the time.
> 
> You need to create a game plan.


I agree too though I said the opposite because it seems as if he is hell bent on moving out for now. I really couldn't think of a gameplan. I also thought perhaps he has a hotheaded Mediterranean temperament and might cool down after a couple of days and come back. If he goes at least he's going to his brother so hopefully his brother would keep him on the straight and narrow because he is a married man with twins still, no matter what.

I know for me if my H kept pleading, insisting, cooking me dinner, showing all those acts of kindness, I'd find it hard to walk out. 

But I think it may be different for men. He sounds like an intensely proud man who won't be talked into staying that easily. 

Guys, what would make you *not* move out in this scenario. What could OP's game plan be?


----------



## Chris989

********** said:


> I agree too though I said the opposite because it seems as if he is hell bent on moving out for now. I really couldn't think of a gameplan. I also thought perhaps he has a hotheaded Mediterranean temperament and might cool down after a couple of days and come back. If he goes at least he's going to his brother so hopefully his brother would keep him on the straight and narrow because he is a married man with twins still, no matter what.
> 
> I know for me if my H kept pleading, insisting, cooking me dinner, showing all those acts of kindness, I'd find it hard to walk out.
> 
> But I think it may be different for men. He sounds like an intensely proud man who won't be talked into staying that easily.
> 
> Guys, what would make you *not* move out in this scenario. What could OP's game plan be?


Seriously?

Lots of sex. It is a very powerful thing; physically and emotionally ticks every box.

This is where there is a big problem if there is no hysterical bonding.


----------



## Jambri

********** said:


> I agree too though I said the opposite because it seems as if he is hell bent on moving out for now. I really couldn't think of a gameplan. I also thought perhaps he has a hotheaded Mediterranean temperament and might cool down after a couple of days and come back. If he goes at least he's going to his brother so hopefully his brother would keep him on the straight and narrow because he is a married man with twins still, no matter what.
> 
> I know for me if my H kept pleading, insisting, cooking me dinner, showing all those acts of kindness, I'd find it hard to walk out.
> 
> But I think it may be different for men. He sounds like an intensely proud man who won't be talked into staying that easily.
> 
> Guys, what would make you *not* move out in this scenario. What could OP's game plan be?


There is nothing that could prevent me from moving out and filing for divorce. Extra-marital affairs is simply a deal breaker for me that could not be reconciled regardless of what actions were taken. Trust is broken forever not to mention I would always have the picture of my wife on my wedding day holding my hand and saying her vows contrasted with my wife in bed with another man. That is something I could never get past. Not to say I couldn't forgive her, I just couldn't move on with her.

That being said the fact that he hasn't filed yet could still provide hope. I think the best thing she could do is be there for him but also stay in the background for a while. Let him figure out where he wants to go from her on...


----------



## smileandlaugh

cpacan said:


> One thing about this is though. Saying "I will never do it again...." sounds hollow, and even more so, if you can't provide the reasons why it couldn't happen again to back it up.
> 
> I know an MC who once said: *"If only more people thought it could happen to them, there wouldn't be so much infidelity"*


That's a great quote. It rings so true for me. I took my wife for granted for so many years. It's not right what she did but I was a dummy for thinking that couldn't happen.


----------



## Chris989

Jambri said:


> There is nothing that could prevent me from moving out and filing for divorce. Extra-marital affairs is simply a deal breaker for me that could not be reconciled regardless of what actions were taken. Trust is broken forever not to mention I would always have the picture of my wife on my wedding day holding my hand and saying her vows contrasted with my wife in bed with another man. That is something I could never get past. Not to say I couldn't forgive her, I just couldn't move on with her.
> 
> That being said the fact that he hasn't filed yet could still provide hope. I think the best thing she could do is be there for him but also stay in the background for a while. Let him figure out where he wants to go from her on...


Has this happened to you?


----------



## Lordhavok

Chris989 said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Lots of sex. It is a very powerful thing; physically and emotionally ticks every box.
> 
> This is where there is a big problem if there is no hysterical bonding.


I dont know chris, he's probably disgusted with her right now. Would probably be worth a shot though.


----------



## Chris989

Lordhavok said:


> I dont know chris, he's probably disgusted with her right now. Would probably be worth a shot though.


It worked for me. It would be interesting to see if there is a connection between hysterical bonding occurring and a couple staying together.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Headspin said:


> My God! that is the same as tears I think. I think her BS moved to his brothers.
> 
> Look it's hard but you can only do as you do. Understanding you will be towed in the 'wake' of
> the infidelity is important. You will obviously feel helpless and it'll be like being pulled behind a F1 racing car in the slipstream but sadly there are no alternative responses open to you.
> 
> Just hang on and see where it leads.
> 
> __________
> 
> May I ask
> 
> What's happened in terms of your parents, his parents family friends ? Do they all know what's happened?
> 
> What's the feedback you get from everybody close to you who knows you both well ? Can you gauge from their reactions how your husband will proceed?
> 
> How well do you know his brother ? etc etc


I haven’t told any of his family or any of our friends. I have told my family almost all of them anyway. Besides the people here my mother was the first person I told and she helped tell my sisters. My father and brother don’t know yet. My dad away on business I plan to tell him and my brother when he returns.

My Mother was angry, disappointed and a shamed of me. Although she has been very supportive so far and a big help. My sister’s had a similar reaction to my mother. I don’t know how his parents would react. I do believe they might know or at least his brother.

His brother and I share a good relationship I consider him a really brother. He has help us a lot when we were younger and staring out. He also comes over regularly to have dinner with us.


Can I ask something, who’s tears I have heard that name pop up a few times.


----------



## Chris989

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I haven’t told any of his family or any of our friends. I have told my family almost all of them anyway. Besides the people here my mother was the first person I told and she helped tell my sisters. My father and brother don’t know yet. My dad away on business I plan to tell him and my brother when he returns.
> 
> My Mother was angry, disappointed and a shamed of me. Although she has been very supportive so far and a big help. My sister’s had a similar reaction to my mother. I don’t know how his parents would react. I do believe they might know or at least his brother.
> 
> His brother and I share a good relationship I consider him a really brother. He has help us a lot when we were younger and staring out. He also comes over regularly to have dinner with us.
> 
> 
> Can I ask something, who’s tears I have heard that name pop up a few times.


Tears made a post a while back very like yours.

She told her husband and he left.

She ended up alone and unhappy.

As it is a story which "ends" with an unfaithful wife that was remorseful but without redemption, it appeals to many on here.

I would ignore the story of Tears and try to make your own.

Keep being positive. Don't give up. Remember why you fell in love with your husband and keep telling him you love him and that you are sorry.

Good luck. I hope you make it.


----------



## Cynthia

Tears thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/52532-i-cheated-my-husband-left.html


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

I wanted to post this early but I end needing to do something and didn’t have enough time.

My husband and I were able to have a short conversation about the separation and how it would work. My husband said he wanted to maintain everything as normal as possible and didn’t want us to make a life changing yet. We did talk about how we would share the kids we both weren’t able to find a way we both would like. We both don’t want the boys to hop around from places to places so we will have to find a way to work that out. We also talked about the finances. He wants to keep the finances as they are. For most of the conversation my husband was somewhat clam and didn’t really show any anger. I also told him about my school situation and why I had to withdrawal from school. When I told him it didn’t anger him. My husband pays for most of my schooling and I withdrawing did cause to lose some money. He called me few and a few comments about me. I know he said them out of anger and with everything I have done has hurt a great deal. So I know he didn’t mean them but they still hurt. We end the conversation we still have a lot figure out if he does decided to separate.

I also wrote him another telling him how sorry was and how I would do anything he asks of me if it meant fix the damage I caused to our marriage. I also attached a list of marriage counselors and told I hoped we could go see one for at least a few sessions before a separate. I wanted to tell him during out talk but the way it end and how angry he was after. He didn’t want to talk to me so I to do the letter. I just hoped he reads it


----------



## Cynthia

He probably will read your letter. He was angry, but he needed to hear that you wanted to cut all ties to the OM. That is a good thing.



Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I also wrote him another telling him how sorry was and how I would do anything he asks of me if it meant fix the damage I caused to our marriage. I also attached a list of marriage counselors and told I hoped we could go see one for at least a few sessions before a separate. I wanted to tell him during out talk but the way it end and how angry he was after. He didn’t want to talk to me so I to do the letter. I just hoped he reads it


The word "if" concerns me. You should be willing to do whatever it takes to bring him healing over what you have done, whether it restores your marriage or not. Be careful how you phrase things to him. He needs to see that you will do whatever it takes to bring him healing and you will do whatever it takes to heal your marriage if he gives you that chance. No ifs ans or buts about it.


----------



## Tron

Keep trying.


----------



## Headspin

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I haven’t told any of his family or any of our friends. I have told my family almost all of them anyway. Besides the people here my mother was the first person I told and she helped tell my sisters. My father and brother don’t know yet. My dad away on business I plan to tell him and my brother when he returns.
> 
> My Mother was angry, disappointed and a shamed of me. Although she has been very supportive so far and a big help. My sister’s had a similar reaction to my mother. I don’t know how his parents would react. I do believe they might know or at least his brother.
> 
> His brother and I share a good relationship I consider him a really brother. He has help us a lot when we were younger and staring out. He also comes over regularly to have dinner with us.
> 
> 
> Can I ask something, who’s tears I have heard that name pop up a few times.


'Tears' has been partially explained

*I think it is important you read that thread from start to finish. Absolutely*
Briefly from it you will understand that you are not alone, although you are as you will ascertain quite unique in how you have dealt with your adultery

It will take the best part of a day bit I would urge you to do it 

You will understand that you are dealing with it better than 98% of wayward spouses. That is something positive for you to hang on to.

Reading about 'tears' you will realize that most waywards deal it with a lot worse than you and _still_ get that chance to reconcile they hardly deserve so that is a positive for you UAP. For miost of us tears 's husband was also unique in his reaction and ultimate long term response. That is also very very rare, again something you can take heart from.

( UAP, I'd also say this too and I don't think I am being out of line but if I were you, if you felt like getting a unique supportive perspective I'd message her privately through here. She is I recall, a lovely person and and I'm sure she'd probably help you in a way none of us could? She was on here for a post about a month ago so obviously is still about. I would never advocate this usually as I value the privacy we all have on here but I think this case is unique and I have no hesitation in encouraging it )

___________

I would also tell all the close family from you both as I think that also helps get in first with your admission of fault and would also show your husband just how far you are prepared to go about this. You are going to look bad in the eyes of them all but again you need to take that on the chin and understand it is a major part of remorse and atonement in my opinion.

I am surprised his family still maybe does not know? I'd say this is important for any reconciliation aspect

I know it's early days and there is so much to think about, be open, be honest, be informative, be aware - all is not lost imo


----------



## cool12

i'm sorry i don't have any advice for you, just wanted to let you know there is another person out there hoping for the best outcome for your situation. i know the pain you are in. 

please take care of yourself.


----------



## WallaceBea

verpin zal said:


> I certainly hope you didn't refer to your AP as a "friend" in your letter, like you kept on doing in your previous thread.


I concur.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Headspin said:


> ___________
> 
> I would also tell all the close family from you both as I think that also helps get in first with your admission of fault and would also show your husband just how far you are prepared to go about this. You are going to look bad in the eyes of them all but again you need to take that on the chin and understand it is a major part of remorse and atonement in my opinion.
> 
> I am surprised his family still maybe does not know? I'd say this is important for any reconciliation aspect
> 
> I know it's early days and there is so much to think about, be open, be honest, be informative, be aware - all is not lost imo





I’m kind scared when it comes to telling his parents and I don’t really know if my husband would want me to tell them. I don’t really know how they would react I have good relationship with most of his family most really do love me. Me and MIL have a great relationship I see her like a second mother and she has always treated me like her own daughter. I also share a great friendship with his sisters I consider them my best friends and I’m also friends with his oldest brother. I don’t his second oldest brother or his dad never liked me. I don’t know why. So I am scared of telling and what could happen to the relationship but if I have to be the one to tell them then I will do it.

They might know but I don’t think they do. I’m pretty sure I would have heard something from them by now well at least that’s what I think.


----------



## bandit.45

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I’m kind scared when it comes to telling his parents and I don’t really know if my husband would want me to tell them. I don’t really know how they would react I have good relationship with most of his family most really do love me. Me and MIL have a great relationship I see her like a second mother and she has always treated me like her own daughter. I also share a great friendship with his sisters I consider them my best friends and I’m also friends with his oldest brother. I don’t his second oldest brother or his dad never liked me. I don’t know why. So I am scared of telling and what could happen to the relationship but if I have to be the one to tell them then I will do it.
> 
> They might know but I don’t think they do. I’m pretty sure I would have heard something from them by now well at least that’s what I think.


Do what you need to do for him. Will you lose some relationships? Yes. Will you make some enemies? Yes. 

It is all part of paying the Mariachis.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

CynthiaDe said:


> He probably will read your letter. He was angry, but he needed to hear that you wanted to cut all ties to the OM. That is a good thing.
> 
> 
> The word "if" concerns me. You should be willing to do whatever it takes to bring him healing over what you have done, whether it restores your marriage or not. Be careful how you phrase things to him. He needs to see that you will do whatever it takes to bring him healing and you will do whatever it takes to heal your marriage if he gives you that chance. No ifs ans or buts about it.


I'm willing to do everything anything to help him heal. I love my husband and I want him to be happy. I’m learning to be very careful in whatever I write or say to him. I didn't think too much about until now. Any little thing can cause him to trigger. Kind of had to learn that the hard way


----------



## OhGeesh

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I posted before and now I need more help then ever
> 
> Last night was crazy and I don’t know what to do or what’s going to happen now.
> 
> I asked my parents if they could pick up the twins from school. So my husband and I could be alone. I was scared I wasn’t going to be able to tell him everything and I thought it would be easier if I wrote him a letter telling everything that happened between me and my AP. I put everything in the letter and I tried to remember everything from that night. I know it might have been the cowardly way out but I didn’t know if I was going to able to verbally. Writing him a letter seemed like the best way to do it.
> 
> Hubby came home around 5. The house was empty since the twins were with my parents. I sat him down in the living room and asked if we could talk. We sat there for a few minutes saying nothing. I showed him the letter I wrote before I handed him the letter. Before he even stared reading I began crying and begging him for another chance. He didn’t know why I was crying and asked what happened but I couldn’t stop crying to answer his question and I asked him to read the letter. As he stared to read the letter I could tell when he started reading about what I done by his facial expression. When he was done reading the letter he just looked at me with sad eyes. A face of completely sadness, hurt and disappointment I never saw him like that. He stayed like for a few minutes then I stared asking him to say something anything but he said nothing. He went to set on the couch we stayed there for about an hour and then he got up and went into his little man cave room. I tried to follow him but he locked himself in his room. He didn’t leave the room until today so he could go to work. At least that’s where I think he went. I tried calling cell and his office but he didn’t answer. Sent emails and texts no answer I haven’t been able to him all day or even get a hold of him. I don’t even know if he’s coming home day since it’s already almost 7 and he isn’t home yet.
> 
> I really need help now. I can’t stop crying and shacking I really don’t know what to do. I keep trying to find ways for him to contact him so I can talk to him. I would do anything he wants if it means saving our marriage. I love him so much and I don’t want to lose him and I want to help him any way I can but I don’t know how. I never wanted to hurt him I always tried to be the best wife for him and to make him happy. I don’t what to say of how to fix everything I have done. I destroyed everything I ever wanted. Some please help me.


JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY YOU DON'T TELL!! You should have taken it to the grave, refocused on the marriage, and forgive yourself. 

Instead you tore his soul out............there is no fixing this jus time and it very well may end in divorce!!


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

cool12 said:


> i'm sorry i don't have any advice for you, just wanted to let you know there is another person out there hoping for the best outcome for your situation. i know the pain you are in.
> 
> please take care of yourself.


I am trying to take care of myself. Sleep and eating have been a major problem. I haven’t been doing too much of either. I have been using a natural sleeping aid which has help but I’m still not eating that much. My mom has been coming over to help me with the kids and everything else so that has help. Having her around is a big plus.


----------



## Oldfaithful

I'm wondering, when you were having sex with OM did you think about your husband at all?


----------



## F-102

Oldfaithful said:


> I'm wondering, when you were having sex with OM did you think about your husband at all?


If you were, PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT TO HIM!


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## GusPolinski

OhGeesh said:


> JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY YOU DON'T TELL!! You should have taken it to the grave, refocused on the marriage, and forgive yourself.
> 
> Instead you tore his soul out............there is no fixing this jus time and it very well may end in divorce!!


What a load of crap. He deserved to know.


----------



## 2asdf2

OhGeesh said:


> JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY YOU DON'T TELL!! You should have taken it to the grave, refocused on the marriage, and forgive yourself.
> 
> Instead you tore his soul out............there is no fixing this jus time and it very well may end in divorce!!


She did the right thing.

In any case, a whole bunch of people knew, and any of them could have been a source for her husband to find out.

Besides, she did the right thing. (Did I already say that?)

I wish my WW had had the rectitude to tell me herself.


----------



## sidney2718

GusPolinski said:


> What a load of crap. He deserved to know.


That's probably right. But it isn't always. It depends on the people and we can't tell easily. Sometimes a marriage is destroyed by telling and both partners regret it. We read about those situations here all the time.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Oldfaithful said:


> I'm wondering, when you were having sex with OM did you think about your husband at all?





F-102 said:


> If you were, PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT TO HIM!


I already answered a similar question. No I didn’t think about my husband. I don’t really know what I was thinking. I only started thinking about him after it was already over and that’s when things became really I guess you could say.


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## 3putt

OhGeesh said:


> JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY YOU DON'T TELL!! You should have taken it to the grave, refocused on the marriage, and forgive yourself.
> 
> Instead you tore his soul out............there is no fixing this jus time and it very well may end in divorce!!


----------



## turnera

Ask your husband if he wants you to admit to everyone what happened. Do whatever he asks.


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## Headspin

OhGeesh said:


> JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY YOU DON'T TELL!! You should have taken it to the grave, refocused on the marriage, and forgive yourself.
> 
> Instead you tore his soul out............there is no fixing this jus time and it very well may end in divorce!!


:scratchhead:

Well no If you are the kind of person 
who cannot live with such a terrible grave secret 
who cannot look at themselves in the mirror 
cannot look at your husband when he tells you how much he loves you and says "don't ever change darling, I love you just as your are " without feeling sick at yourself 

THEN (to use your caps) OF COURSE YOU TELL 

Put it this way when you, as the betrayed, do find out say 15 years later and as sure as hell you will in some way find out, then you will be so gutted. To know you have lived with a lie for all that time.

There's a current thread highlighting this very fact 

The denials the trickle truth gaslighting ...It doesn't change any of that keeping it all to yourself - does it?


----------



## Headspin

turnera said:


> Ask your husband if he wants you to admit to everyone what happened. Do whatever he asks.


To be honest I'm surprised three weeks or so later they already do not know something is terribly wrong. Surely they must do but sure agreed, it must go past him first


----------



## GusPolinski

Headspin said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> Well no If you are the kind of person
> who cannot live with such a terrible grave secret
> who cannot look at themselves in the mirror
> cannot look at your husband when he tells you how much he loves you and says "don't ever change darling, I love you just as your are " without feeling sick at yourself
> 
> THEN (to use your caps) OF COURSE YOU TELL
> 
> Put it this way when you, as the betrayed, do find out say 15 years later and as sure as hell you will in some way find out, then you will be so gutted. To know you have lived with a lie for all that time.
> 
> There's a current thread highlighting this very fact
> 
> The denials the trickle truth gaslighting ...It doesn't change any of that keeping it all to yourself - does it?


On the flipside, if you are the type of person who can betray your spouse and live with it, look at yourself in the mirror, are able to look at your spouse w/o feeling absolute guilt and remorse, and without being sick w/ yourself, then it's very possible that you're a horrible person, in which case your spouse deserves better.

Again, SHE DID THE RIGHT THING BY TELLING HIM. HE DESERVED TO KNOW. It's called accountability...

One way or another, they'll get through it (though maybe not together), and she'll at least be able to take some small comfort in the knowledge that she came clean. And of her own accord to boot.

Edit: Headspin, just re-read my post and realized that it could come off as somewhat argumentative to your quoted post above. I meant the former half of my reply to be complementary to your post and for the latter half of it to expand upon the former.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

3putt said:


>


Not as good as your Tom Hanks photobomb, but good nonetheless :smthumbup:

I concur with everyone who stated she did the right thing. Yes Un_Amor_Perdido, you will have to pick your words very carefully. There can't be any hint of selfishness or entitlement in anything you say, or it will set him off..

Good luck!


----------



## Headspin

GusPolinski said:


> On the flipside, if you are the type of person who can betray your spouse and live with it, look at yourself in the mirror, are able to look at your spouse w/o feeling absolute guilt and remorse, and without being sick w/ yourself, then it's very possible that you're a horrible person, in which case your spouse deserves better.
> 
> Again, SHE DID THE RIGHT THING BY TELLING HIM. HE DESERVED TO KNOW. It's called accountability...
> 
> One way or another, they'll get through it (though maybe not together), and she'll at least be able to take some small comfort in the knowledge that she came clean. And of her own accord to boot.
> 
> Edit: Headspin, just re-read my post and realized that it could come off as somewhat argumentative to your quoted post above. I meant the former half of my reply to be complementary to your post and for the latter half of it to expand upon the former.


I get it, no worries 

And again your point I relate to is in that other thread, (I think his name is Forest) his wife confirmed 
after 20 years she was in fact cheating way back all along when in his bones he knew that - he questioned / argued - she'd denied, trickle truthed him gaslighted him rug swept the whole thing and now 20 years later he's pulling his hair out knowing he's lived a lie trying desperately to hang on to any crumbs of trust he has left for her

My point in that thread is what kind of person can actually sit on that information look at themselves in the mirror and behave perfectly normal, knowing the depths of deceit treachery and betrayal they have sunk to

I know UAP has done the right thing here, even if it costs her her marriage she will at least know in her heart she has been forthcoming with the truth. She will keep her dignity and here's the crux - be able to sleep at night. She may lose sleep over her stupidity and the cost of it but she will feel absolutely good within herself that having done the deed, bad as it was, she instantly confessed her guilt and left herself bare to the response of the man she clearly loves.

As in tears thread I will never criticize him for 'walking' but I would say it takes a special kind of strength / hardness in the face of such honesty after the event to walk away.

I can only dream about my stbx being this up front and honest about her misdeeds. The actual fact of confessing is a huge sign of contrition for me and one hopefully that will not be lost on her husband


----------



## SailBadTheSinner

Where the hell are the real men here? The minute she mixed bodily fluids with another man, she set an uncontrollable sequence in action. She did it. 

I'd kick her to the curb. Hell with my failings. She did the unforgivable. Regardless of alcohol, swagger or loneliness. It was and is unforgivable. And, it's why in a desperately unhappy marriage of 25 years, I never cheated.

So, to the OP...if you love him, let him go and let him find someone who won't disrespect, f%ck other men and then tell him about it. If he's Plan B, then you're a soulless skank beneath contempt.


----------



## Headspin

SailBadTheSinner said:


> Where the hell are the real men here? The minute she mixed bodily fluids with another man, she set an uncontrollable sequence in action. She did it.
> 
> I'd kick her to the curb. Hell with my failings. She did the unforgivable. Regardless of alcohol, swagger or loneliness. It was and is unforgivable. And, it's why in a desperately unhappy marriage of 25 years, I never cheated.
> 
> So, to the OP...if you love him, let him go and let him find someone who won't disrespect, f%ck other men and then tell him about it. If he's Plan B, then you're a soulless skank beneath contempt.


The 'real' men are actually few 

All of us 'real' men strut around for years proclaiming if she did this or that "I'd string her up" "I'd be out take the kids and the cheating ***** will die a slow delightful death"

In the real world 'real' men actually, when the **** hits the fan and the woman they love has done this terrible thing, are hurt terribly, precisely because they love this person so deeply and the thought of losing them is not so easy to come to terms with

Big events in people's lives are not black and white when it comes to dealing with them 

....a .....er 'real' man


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

turnera said:


> Ask your husband if he wants you to admit to everyone what happened. Do whatever he asks.


I will ask him before I do anything involving his side of the family. It’s his side of the family and it’s his choose how he wants to handle it. Whatever he want me to do I will do it might not be what I want but I will do it


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Headspin said:


> To be honest I'm surprised three weeks or so later they already do not know something is terribly wrong. Surely they must do but sure agreed, it must go past him first




Oh they know something up. The way I acted after I confessed and hubby left pretty much give it away. So they know something going on they just don’t know what. I will learn the truth sooner or later.


----------



## Mr Blunt

Un Amor perdido


First I want to say thank you for posting your story of betrayal. *With your post it is possible that someone will see how stupid, immature and weak it is to be hanging around a person from the opposite sex without your husband present and then getting DRUNK!!!*


Immature teenagers do this and then they get themselves into so much trouble that they have depend on others to get them out of their situation. Un Amor you have no excuse you are at least in your mid to late twenties and you have two CHILDREN! What you did will cost you for years and maybe the rest of your life to some degree. Hopefully you will be one of those that after some time will minimize the destruction that you have done. and gain in other areas.


Any one out there that rationalizes getting drunk should at least call it what it is.* Getting drunk is either a very immature stupid thing to do or is something that you do because you want to impress someone else or it is just a person proving their weakness.*

Un Amor, many of us feel lot of sympathy for you but that sympathy will not stop the consequences that you are going to pay for years. I hope you remember your thoughts and choices before the betrayal and connect them to your pain. This will help you in the future should you ever be tempted again. What a cost you will pay for a few days of cheap thrills and one day of drunkenness and then the sexual betrayal!

Of the betrayals that I have read on this forum yours is damaging but not like some others. You had a one timer and you were immediatly stricken with the terror that you now have and you seem to be suffering the full affect of your consequences. That tells me that you had a good sense of right and wrong (Usted tenía vergüenza) and knew immediately that you committed a horrible act. You did not feel that you had some good reason to betray or try to defend yourself. Furthermore, you did not have a multi month affair and you have suffered immediately after the affair. If a spouse is going to choose to R then your betrayal would have fewer obstacles to overcome than an affair that went on for many months and developed a very strong attachment to the affair partner and the WS felt some justification or rationalization.


I am not trying to make light of your betrayal but there is room for a little hope in the event that your husband decides to R. Of course your husband is well within his right to divorce you but there does not seem to be a strong indication of that right now.



*I think that the best thing you can do right now is to use the motivation that you have to improve yourself in a way that would be appealing to your husband and yourself.* If your husband decides to R then you having improved yourself will give you a better chance of a successful R.

Do not spend your time compromising your integrity just because you have had such a huge failure or feel that you cannot regain some of your integrity.


----------



## Granny7

Headspin said:


> I get it, no worries
> 
> And again your point I relate to is in that other thread, (I think his name is Forest) his wife confirmed
> after 20 years she was in fact cheating way back all along when in his bones he knew that - he questioned / argued - she'd denied, trickle truthed him gaslighted him rug swept the whole thing and now 20 years later he's pulling his hair out knowing he's lived a lie trying desperately to hang on to any crumbs of trust he has left for her
> 
> My point in that thread is what kind of person can actually sit on that information look at themselves in the mirror and behave perfectly normal, knowing the depths of deceit treachery and betrayal they have sunk to
> 
> I know UAP has done the right thing here, even if it costs her her marriage she will at least know in her heart she has been forthcoming with the truth. She will keep her dignity and here's the crux - be able to sleep at night. She may lose sleep over her stupidity and the cost of it but she will feel absolutely good within herself that having done the deed, bad as it was, she instantly confessed her guilt and left herself bare to the response of the man she clearly loves.
> 
> As in tears thread I will never criticize him for 'walking' but I would say it takes a special kind of strength / hardness in the face of such honesty after the event to walk away.
> 
> I can only dream about my stbx being this up front and honest about her misdeeds. The actual fact of confessing is a huge sign of contrition for me and one hopefully that will not be lost on her husband


Headspin,
You can look at my thread, Granny7 and also see where not knowing the total truth will destroy you. It sure has me 25 yrs. later. She did the right thing in telling him. I found out about my CH affair from the OWH one year after it ended. I asked my husband if he would have ever told me if I hadn't found out and he said NO, as then I would have been hurt and it was over with????

I looked at him and asked, "So you were going to live with me for whatever life we had left (I thought we had a very good marriage) and never tell me and live our life without me ever knowing that you lived a lie with another woman for 3 yrs.?" He didn't say anything, but I know he would have never told me. Now that I know, I really don't know what is worse? The knowledge of what he did has destroyed the special love I had for him, our life is now a mess again, due to him "rug sweeping it" for 25 yrs. So, I guess there are two sides to everything as sometimes I wish I had never found out as the pain of knowing is so great.

Granny7


----------



## Headspin

Granny7 said:


> Headspin,
> You can look at my thread, Granny7 and also see where not knowing the total truth will destroy you. It sure has me 25 yrs. later. She did the right thing in telling him. I found out about my CH affair from the OWH one year after it ended. I asked my husband if he would have ever told me if I hadn't found out and he said NO, as then I would have been hurt and it was over with????
> 
> I looked at him and asked, "So you were going to live with me for whatever life we had left (I thought we had a very good marriage) and never tell me and live our life without me ever knowing that you lived a lie with another woman for 3 yrs.?" He didn't say anything, but I know he would have never told me. Now that I know, I really don't know what is worse? The knowledge of what he did has destroyed the special love I had for him, our life is now a mess again, due to him "rug sweeping it" for 25 yrs. So, I guess there are two sides to everything as sometimes I wish I had never found out as the pain of knowing is so great.
> 
> Granny7


Yeah I know your story Gran.

I s'pose its a double edged thing isn't it . Memory is the key isn't it 

If you _really don't know_ anything happened way way back. There's is no suspicion about any adultery and betrayal then what you do not know will never get to you - if it was a clean cut as that! 

BUT 

the truth is like here, like Forest, like yourself, when there is a sniff of treachery and you always know deep down something has happened but are cheated gaslighted trickle truthed out of the truth then although you can 'hope' nothing happened, get your head in a place where 'hopefully' nothing did, you can to a large extent 'enjoy' your life BUT when that closet finally lets out the beast you always believed was lurking, right then, right at that moment, your whole marital history is re written - you KNOW everything has effectively been a lie.

Of course at that moment as you know everything starts to be as if the affair happened last week. 20 years changes nothing under those circumstances and as now this debate has turned into for me, what type of person is capable of keeping such a huge secret every day of their waking life.

I don't have / never did have, affairs or even look at another woman so I already know I could not keep this stuff under my hat for a day let alone a lifetime. I have worked in an industry (performing musician) where men and woman easily mix as part of the job and infidelity is high and there have been instances where my wife has seen woman flirting heavily with me and found it difficult to trust that nothing would ever happen especially if I were away for a short time and even a couple of those times have caused rifts where she thought something could have 'happened' but of course she had / has the mindset of somebody who is a cheat so would assume that ! 

I learned a long time ago secrets *always* 'out' in the end - be it later today or 10 years time and there was never a positive result from any of them so keeping a secret as severe in effect as adultery, will only eat away till in the end there's very little left, other than mistrust, loss of love, loss of respect etc etc

Personally, my own wife only after two years separated and years of 'assuming' 'believing' she had 'confessed' finally only a few months ago realized /admitted she had never once done that, but the need for her to get her head into thinking she tried to make it better by confessing was staggering - she actually believed until I proved beyond all doubt irrefutably she had never actually done that, until I had the evidence right between her eyes that could not be doubted - she needed to believe she had confessed rather than be caught to help her feel better and less guilty about it all !! 

Interesting that even in her head, in short windows of honesty, she felt the need to feel like she confessed rather than the usual cheater script guilt laden truth where she endlessly denied everything 

Conclusions? for me at any rate - 

you've fked up ?
it's embarrassing ? 
it's painful ?
you've hurt others close to you ?
you've hurt others who are innocent ?

There is only one way back from all of that and that is *tell it* 

TODAY NOW and because we humans are intrinsically forgiving creatures you will in truth often be given another chance, 

The more you deny/hide it the bigger the hole you're digging gets, until you are so far so deep down you have no chance of getting out of it - 

The cheaters grave - self dug and filling up with more sh!t the deeper you choose to go !!


----------



## seasalt

There is no need for you to familiarize yourself with the thread started by Tears because as you are by now aware, her marriage did not survive her faithlessness and despite the similarities in your stories and postings everyone is different.

I'm going to suggest something for you to do that I did suggest to Tears because perhaps it might be something you could do that I think she was unable to. In my observations about her posts I thought she was lacking emotion and felt that she was unable to convey to her husband her need and desire to reconcile her marriage whatever it would require. I suggested she go outside her comfort level and make some kind of grand gesture or declaration. Some might call it manipulative, and perhaps it is, but if you are serious about doing whatever it takes to keep your family together, perhaps my suggestions to Tears will work for you.

I told Tears that she must tell her husband that he and he alone has the ability to save his family. I suggested that she ask him to think about what he would do if he walked past a house on fire with his wife and children trapped on the top floor. Would he risk his life to save them? That's what he will have to do to save his family's life now. Of course it would be an easier question for him to answer if he felt safe in your company. That's where your demonstrable and palpable remorse must be conveyed. Ask him to think about which is the better choice. A wife who is 100% remorseful and committed to proving herself for a lifetime with 100% of the family intact, or a future with some other woman who, when all is said and done, is a gamble and only a 50% involvement with his children.

I know that I can and may be criticized for loading you up with things to perhaps unfairly jerk your husband strings and such questions and observations coming from a faithless spouse are hypocritical but I think people deserve to be happy and families should be preserved. You must acknowledge and remember however that this approach still may be fruitless and certainly will be unsuccessful if you can't convince him of your sincerity.

Good luck to you and your family,

Seasalt

P.S. I never send or receive Personal Messages and only respond to the original poster so when or if I am flamed for this post you will only have my words above to reflect upon unless you direct a thought about them to me.


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## carpenoctem

Just a few counterpoints (please don’t view this as effrontery):




seasalt said:


> Ask him to think about which is the better choice. A wife who is 100% remorseful and committed to proving herself for a lifetime with 100% of the family intact, or a future with some other woman who, when all is said and done, is a gamble and only a 50% involvement with his children.



Converse POV:

He has a wife who has 100% proven to be able to cheat on him (though only once), vs a future SO who has 100% NOT cheated on HIM (yet). Depends on how he looks at it.

But yes, she will definitely be more invested in the child than any other woman.




seasalt said:


> I suggested that *she ask him to think about what he would do if he walked past a house on fire with his wife and children trapped on the top floor. Would he risk his life to save them?* That's what he will have to do to save his family's life now.



Converse POV:

He probably (I presume DEFINITELY, like any man who loves his wife and child) would have risked his life to save them, before. Now, this question perhaps should be asked separately for the wife, and the son. *To use the son as collateral damage, is not fair.*

Suppose he stays to 'save his family' thus, but* exists as an emotionally imprisoned man, *would that be a 'saved family'? Wouldn't it be presumptuous of her to think that she could positively ensure his revival from that state, once he is thus stopped from walking? Shouldn't it be up to him to decide to give her that opportunity, out of free will?

Let’s concede that *if her husband wants to walk, that does not make him an unforgiving egomaniac.* It could simply mean he just cannot live with it. Because other men have forgiven and reconciled with much worse transgressions, it does not mean he essentially has to reconcile with this comparatively lesser betrayal.

He at least deserves to get to choose. He didn’t choose to be a betrayed husband. Shouldn't he be allowed to choose whether to be a reconciled husband, or a divorced man, *at his own will?*

Offering remorse, promising future loyalty, etc., seem apropos. *But manipulation is manipulation, whatever other name we call it by,* or whatever positive intention / rationale it might have. And what was suggested here does sound as emotional manipulation.

*Suppose a WS pretends angina everytime the BS asks a difficult question about his/her affair, to avoid having to answer? *This approach somehow sounds similar.



That said, if there should be a comparison, she seems sooooooooooo much better a candidate for Reconciliation than many other WWs portrayed on TAM.


P.S.:
My guess is, UAP would not try to manipulate him thus, even if she is guaranteed a positive result. Her overall integrity (as evident in her posts here) would not permit it.


----------



## Headspin

seasalt said:


> There is no need for you to familiarize yourself with the thread started by Tears because as you are by now aware, her marriage did not survive her faithlessness


 That does not mean UAP cannot get a feel for how somebody else in her current predicament felt 



seasalt said:


> In my observations about her posts I thought she was lacking emotion and felt that she was unable to convey to her husband her need and desire to reconcile her marriage whatever it would require.


 How on earth do you come to that conclusion about tears ? How? Please, link me to a passage where you think she illustrated that? 



seasalt said:


> I told Tears that she must tell her husband that he and he alone has the ability to save his family. I suggested that she ask him to think about what he would do if he walked past a house on fire with his wife and children trapped on the top floor. Would he risk his life to save them? That's what he will have to do to save his family's life now. Of course it would be an easier question for him to answer if he felt safe in your company. That's where your demonstrable and palpable remorse must be conveyed. Ask him to think about which is the better choice. A wife who is 100% remorseful and committed to proving herself for a lifetime with 100% of the family intact, or a future with some other woman who, when all is said and done, is a gamble and only a 50% involvement with his children.
> 
> I know that I can and may be criticized for loading you up with things to perhaps unfairly jerk your husband strings and such questions and observations coming from a faithless spouse are hypocritical but I think people deserve to be happy and families should be preserved. You must acknowledge and remember however that this approach still may be fruitless and certainly will be unsuccessful if you can't convince him of your sincerity.


This completely bamboozles me! Do explain to me (briefly) how UAP can in any way find that useful ? 



seasalt said:


> if I am flamed for this post you will only have my words above to reflect upon unless you direct a thought about them to me.


I'm directing a thought to you about your comments so don't please run off and hide ! (like I think you will!)


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## OptimisticPessimist

SailBadTheSinner said:


> Where the hell are the real men here? The minute she mixed bodily fluids with another man, she set an uncontrollable sequence in action. She did it.
> 
> I'd kick her to the curb. Hell with my failings. She did the unforgivable. Regardless of alcohol, swagger or loneliness. It was and is unforgivable. And, it's why in a desperately unhappy marriage of 25 years, I never cheated.
> 
> So, to the OP...if you love him, let him go and let him find someone who won't disrespect, f%ck other men and then tell him about it. If he's Plan B, then you're a soulless skank beneath contempt.


If it were me, I would walk. But this isn't my choice, or yours...

Ultimately we aim to be happy; "happy" is a label that roughly denotes an electrochemical state of the mind that occurs when the environment around us (people, our relationship to people, material assets, housing, job, etc) is favorable to our survival and ability to contribute to society.

If Un_Amor_Perdido's husband can find happiness with her despite her infidelity, why shouldn't they stay together? If he can't, then he should walk and Un_Amor_Perdido will have to deal with the loss. 

The ultimate goal is for the two of them to come out of this as happy as possible, with an emphasis on him since he was wronged. If that means they stay married, great. If it doesn't, we can still feel empathy for Un_Amor_Perdido's regret.


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## vellocet

OhGeesh said:


> JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY YOU DON'T TELL!! You should have taken it to the grave, refocused on the marriage, and forgive yourself.
> 
> Instead you tore his soul out............there is no fixing this jus time and it very well may end in divorce!!


I agree. A great marriage is built on lies, deceit and betrayal


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

I thought I would give you guys a little update. Things have gotten a little bit better. We have talked a little more. I have brought up going to marriage counseling and if we could go to at least one session together. He never no but he did tell me he would think about it. To me it’s pretty big since I never thought he would ever think about. I have also give him a list of all my passwords to my emails and any social media sites I use. I haven’t told his family about my A and I’m going to wait for him to give me the cue to tell them id that’s what he wants.


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## DoktorFun

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I thought I would give you guys a little update. Things have gotten a little bit better. We have talked a little more. I have brought up going to marriage counseling and if we could go to at least one session together. He never no but he did tell me he would think about it. To me it’s pretty big since I never thought he would ever think about. I have also give him a list of all my passwords to my emails and any social media sites I use. I haven’t told his family about my A and I’m going to wait for him to give me the cue to tell them id that’s what he wants.


Good. Stay the course. GL.


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## vellocet

Perdido, right now that is all you can do.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I thought I would give you guys a little update. Things have gotten a little bit better. We have talked a little more. I have brought up going to marriage counseling and if we could go to at least one session together. He never no but he did tell me he would think about it. *To me it’s pretty big since I never thought he would ever think about.* I have also give him a list of all my passwords to my emails and any social media sites I use. I haven’t told his family about my A and I’m going to wait for him to give me the cue to tell them id that’s what he wants.


Small steps can still get you to to where you want to go.

Don't ever show that you're getting impatient, or push him to do more than he wants to. Eventually if he wants to talk about what happened, or go to counseling, he will tell you. The fact that he even said he would think about it is a good sign.

Offer him anything and everything(which I'm sure you already have). Waiting for him to decide may get tough on you, but he needs to go at his own pace.


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## missthelove2013

HANG IN THERE UAP
I usually pray for the complete and utter destruction of cheaters anf their lives, but I am rooting for you guys to work it out.
You sound sincerely remorseful and willing to do what it takes, I hope your husband sees that and gives R a shot, your one of the very few WS posters Ive read here that sound worth the work to R...stay strong!


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## Mr Blunt

*Un Amor

Did you tell your husband that ypu want to go to couseling because you need help?

DO NOT say that he needs to get couseling because he needs help!*


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Mr Blunt said:


> *Un Amor
> 
> Did you tell your husband that ypu want to go to couseling because you need help?
> 
> DO NOT say that he needs to get couseling because he needs help!*


My husband knows I stared seeing a counselor because I do need help answering all the questions I have. Finding why I could do something so stupid. 

I haven’t told my husband he needs counseling. I have told him MC could help so fix the problems I created. I have given my husband list IC counselors he could see if he wanted. I don’t think my husband needs any kind of help but I do think IC could help work out his feeling and find out what’s best for him.


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## manfromlamancha

This is major progress UAP - don't screw it up now! Well done - you seem to know what is needed.


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## Mr Blunt

> I haven’t told my husband he needs counseling. I have told him MC could help so fix the problems I created. I have given my husband list IC counselors he could see if he wanted. I don’t think my husband needs any kind of help but I do think IC could help work out his feeling and find out what’s best for him.



You did not say how he reacted to your giving him a list of IC. I assume he took it that you were concerned about the damage that you affair did to him. That being the case then I do hope that he gets some IC and am glad that 

I was trying to caution you on saying anything that he would interpret as you saying he had a part, even a small part, in pushing you into an affair. *Even if it is true that he did some things that hurt you, it is not wise right now to bring up anything that he would interpret that he had any part of your affair.*


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## 86857

So glad to hear that Un-Amor. 

You will need lots of patience and things won't happen quickly. Keep doing whatever it is you are doing because it's working. 

*You are a textbook example of how a remorseful WS should feel and what they should be doing. 
*
Kudos.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Mr Blunt said:


> You did not say how he reacted to your giving him a list of IC. I assume he took it that you were concerned about the damage that you affair did to him. That being the case then I do hope that he gets some IC and am glad that
> 
> I was trying to caution you on saying anything that he would interpret as you saying he had a part, even a small part, in pushing you into an affair. *Even if it is true that he did some things that hurt you, it is not wise right now to bring up anything that he would interpret that he had any part of your affair.*



He really didn’t show any kind of reaction. I handed him the list and he asked what it was I told him. He just nodded his head.

My husband hasn’t done anything to hurt ever. I didn’t have A to get back at him or anything like that. I still don’t know why I did what I did but I am working on it.


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## ConanHub

I am mortified at how you treated your family, but I am very impressed with what you have done since then. Best wishes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Everything seems to be going better. Yesterday we had a great family day we went to go watch the boys’ soccer game together and afterwards I planned so we could go the aquarium that was close by after the game. He even held my hand as we walked through the aquarium as we visited the different exhibits. I also think I made some kind of break through yesterday. After we got home hubby help me around with the kids and get ready for bed afterwards we down stairs I followed hm. He was watching the knicks game after the game he asked if we could talk of course I said yes. He stared asking different questions about the affair. I give him many of the answers to his questions in the first letter I wrote him about this, I answered all his questions. Most of questions he asked last night where the easy ones for me anyway. He didn’t ask the “why” question yet which I don’t really know do when he does ask that question because I really don’t know yet and I don’t know how to answer those kinds of questions. After the talk we kind we even cuddled on the couch for a bit I wanted a little more but that’s ok.

I do have another question what exactly is hysterical bonding. What I gotten so far it’s a increase in sex in which becomes very passionate, intimate overall just. If someone could explain it better that would be great. Last how does a BS feel about it? I can see a WS would want but not so much a BS you’d think that would be the last thing on their mind right. So if a BS could tell me how they felt during hysterical bonding. I just want to get a better understanding that’s all.


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## carpenoctem

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My husband hasn’t done anything to hurt ever. I didn’t have A to get back at him or anything like that. I still don’t know why I did what I did but I am working on it.



Salute', Lady, for having the strength of character to say that so straight.

I wouldn't have.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

ConanHub said:


> I am mortified at how you treated your family, but I am very impressed with what you have done since then. Best wishes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I feel the same way i don't wth i was think. I just hope i can get a second chance


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## turnera

AFAIK, hysterical bonding when it's a BH and a WW has a little bit of the man subconsciously doing the 'she's mine, no other man should ever have touched her, I'm the best and I'm gonna prove it - to MYSELF.' Because in reality, it's himself that he doubts, not you. If only he were better in bed (IMO, that's how guys think, while the women thing if only I'd been a better wife) you wouldn't have strayed. So for him, the HB is him reasserting himself that he 'has it' and 'you want him.' I may be wrong, but that's how I always assumed it.


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## Forest

On the H. Bonding thing, from the awful, heartbreaking, humiliated view of a BH - its was a type of "taking back" or "marking territory" thing. That may sound coarse, but I felt like I had to assert my ownership and power or something.

From her side, it seemed like she was trying to convey that she desired me, had made (years ago) her decision, wanted to show/prove something, etc, etc. At first, she was the initiator, then it switched to me, then I don't know.

Kind of depressing to talk of right now. That it had to happen.


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## carpenoctem

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I do have another question what exactly is hysterical bonding. What I gotten so far it’s a increase in sex in which becomes very passionate, intimate overall just. If someone could explain it better that would be great. Last how does a BS feel about it? I can see a WS would want but not so much a BS you’d think that would be the last thing on their mind right. So if a BS could tell me how they felt during hysterical bonding. I just want to get a better understanding that’s all.



Hysterical Bonding:

The BS and the WS have sex as if it’s going to be banned from the next week. The BS tries to ‘reclaim’ what is his by way of marriage (and what he had lost to the OM during the affair), and the WS tries to reassure the BS that it is indeed (still) his, by right and choice.

*Basically, just Latin for a compensatory sexfest. But the bonding soon ebbs, often leaving behind hysteria.*

But they say it’s great while it lasts. Do enjoy.


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## Chris989

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Everything seems to be going better. Yesterday we had a great family day we went to go watch the boys’ soccer game together and afterwards I planned so we could go the aquarium that was close by after the game. He even held my hand as we walked through the aquarium as we visited the different exhibits. I also think I made some kind of break through yesterday. After we got home hubby help me around with the kids and get ready for bed afterwards we down stairs I followed hm. He was watching the knicks game after the game he asked if we could talk of course I said yes. He stared asking different questions about the affair. I give him many of the answers to his questions in the first letter I wrote him about this, I answered all his questions. Most of questions he asked last night where the easy ones for me anyway. He didn’t ask the “why” question yet which I don’t really know do when he does ask that question because I really don’t know yet and I don’t know how to answer those kinds of questions. After the talk we kind we even cuddled on the couch for a bit I wanted a little more but that’s ok.
> 
> I do have another question what exactly is hysterical bonding. What I gotten so far it’s a increase in sex in which becomes very passionate, intimate overall just. If someone could explain it better that would be great. Last how does a BS feel about it? I can see a WS would want but not so much a BS you’d think that would be the last thing on their mind right. So if a BS could tell me how they felt during hysterical bonding. I just want to get a better understanding that’s all.


We had several months of hysterical bonding. From the day after I found out, through failed marriage guidance, through doubts and arguments and raging fights.

It was a very physical urge that could not be ignored. For me, there was little emotion behind it beyond an unstoppable desire. For my ex it seemed to give her comfort that I wouldn't leave and I have no doubt whatsoever that, without it, we would not have stayed together (although that is by no means a permanent state for us).

It wasn't the best sex we had ever had as it was purely physical, but I can imagine if it had been casual sex it would have been awesome beyond words.

Our sex life hadn't slowed during her affair, however and I do understand that everyone is very different. 

I asked my errant work colleague - who is still in the throes of ending her affair - and she has certainly not had hysterical bonding, but then again her husband is doing every single thing wrong that he could...


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## Cynthia

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Everything seems to be going better. Yesterday we had a great family day we went to go watch the boys’ soccer game together and afterwards I planned so we could go the aquarium that was close by after the game. He even held my hand as we walked through the aquarium as we visited the different exhibits. I also think I made some kind of break through yesterday. After we got home hubby help me around with the kids and get ready for bed afterwards we down stairs I followed hm. He was watching the knicks game after the game he asked if we could talk of course I said yes. He stared asking different questions about the affair. I give him many of the answers to his questions in the first letter I wrote him about this, I answered all his questions. Most of questions he asked last night where the easy ones for me anyway. He didn’t ask the “why” question yet which I don’t really know do when he does ask that question because I really don’t know yet and I don’t know how to answer those kinds of questions. After the talk we kind we even cuddled on the couch for a bit I wanted a little more but that’s ok.
> 
> I do have another question what exactly is hysterical bonding. What I gotten so far it’s a increase in sex in which becomes very passionate, intimate overall just. If someone could explain it better that would be great. Last how does a BS feel about it? I can see a WS would want but not so much a BS you’d think that would be the last thing on their mind right. So if a BS could tell me how they felt during hysterical bonding. I just want to get a better understanding that’s all.


This is extremely positive. Stay calm and patient. Keep doing what you've been doing. Keep seeking to understand the why.
When he does ask you why, you can simply tell him what you have told us, that he is a wonderful husband, father, lover, friend and everything you ever wanted in a man. Whatever caused you to do such a thing is only due to a character flaw within yourself that you are working with a therapist to uncover and resolve, because you never, never want to do anything even remotely like that again.


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## OptimisticPessimist

Excellent news! I cant add anything of value word-wise, but I just want to say good luck!


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## Mr Blunt

> *Un Amor Perdido*
> I do have another question what exactly is hysterical bonding.



IMO, Hysterical bonding is when you so desperately want things to go back like they were. *You are so very desperate to fill the void, hurt, and the fear in your emotions that you are hysterical (desperate) about bonding.* Not hysterical like in yelling and turning flips but your emotions are so rattled that any type bonding is exaggerated. Hysterical bonding is kind of like a hungry man that has not eaten in days then gets a great steak but it is more intense.


Hysterical bonding can last weeks or even months in some cases but not years for most people.


At this time with what you have said I agree with many others here in that the recent developments are positive. I do not like to rain on your parade but prepare yourself for an emotional roller coaster ride. Hopefully the great days will far outnumber the rough days.


Speaking of hysterical I would advice that you be hysterical about showing your dedication to him and your loathing for what you did. *At the same time get all the information that you can about you forgiving yourself then take actions according to the information that you got.*


You are in the very early stages but there seems to be a lot of hope.


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## m0nk

Stay patient and be mindful of his clues. Now is not the time to revert to selfish behaviors. I am happy for you, your husband, and your children. Keep us posted!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tears

You have been given sound advice and I'm not sure I can add anything of value but I'm rooting for you. 

I was in your shoes not too long ago, so please don't hesitate to send me a pm.

Please read this book: How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Amazon.co.uk: Linda J. MacDonald M.S.: Books


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## LongWalk

Tears! You're back.



> If you are ambivalent about divorce and your significant other is remorseful I think its well worth the effort to at least give it a chance. Then divorce and remarriage becomes purely symbolic and entirely up to the two of you.
> 
> Its much harder trying to reconcile after a divorce unless you're already on the path, its an uphill task and *in the end it can often get you nowhere.*


As you well know most of TAM hoped that you and your ex would reconcile and find happiness.


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## LongWalk

Tears! You're back. You once wrote:



> If you are ambivalent about divorce and your significant other is remorseful I think its well worth the effort to at least give it a chance. Then divorce and remarriage becomes purely symbolic and entirely up to the two of you.
> 
> Its much harder trying to reconcile after a divorce unless you're already on the path, its an uphill task and *in the end it can often get you nowhere.*


As you well know many of us on TAM were also rooting for you and your ex to reconcile and find happiness in a new beginning. You children have grown so much since you stopped posting.


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## Granny7

Un Amor Perdido,

I know I might be a little late in responding to your question, "What is hysterical bonding?" I remember vividly doing the same thing, even the first night after finding out about the A. Of course, if I had known the total truth that night we wouldn't have even been in bed together. One thing led to another, I just needed to feel comfort as I was so torn up, he held me and one thing led to another. I so regret it now, as he had done so much more than he told me.

I remember during the next month or so that I did have this urge to prove to him that I was better than she was and I was going to prove that to him by having sex in different places, whenever the mood struck, it didn't matter. I had always been very sexual anyway, but I turned it up even more as I was out to prove, this was what he almost lost by cheating on me. It was an urge that just seemed to take over and it was more sexual than making love would have been. 

I also remember going dancing more, ****tail lounges for drinks, all the things he did with her. I guess I figured if he felt the need to do these things that people do more when they first get married or are very young and single, I was going to prove that I was more than capable of doing the same thing he did with her. If he had asked me to meet him after work, even before the A once in a while I would have met him, but he didn't ask me. But obviously he was in his second childhood and felt the need to act like one. That's why I say, "No one should get married at 18, you haven't experienced life enough, had many partners to have fun with before you settle down." I didn't need it, but it sure tells me that he did.

Sorry, I got off track. But enjoy the hysterical bonding and I wish you all the luck in the world. You made one mistake and yes it was a big one. I do feel you do need to find out why, as I wish my H had went to IC after I found out about the A but he wouldn't go. Now over 25 yrs. later as all this is coming back to me, he doesn't know why he didn't think about why he did what he did. You have a second chance and it will definitely help you to understand yourself, which will help your marriage. I'm so glad that you were honest enough to tell your H the truth, mine wasn't. The OMH was the one to tell me a yr. after the A was over. He says it was still going on, but I can't find any prove and I sure can't believe my H. 

Take care,
Granny7


----------



## Headspin

tears said:


> You have been given sound advice and I'm not sure I can add anything of value but I'm rooting for you.
> 
> I was in your shoes not too long ago, so please don't hesitate to send me a pm.
> 
> Please read this book: How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful: Amazon.co.uk: Linda J. MacDonald M.S.: Books


Well done tears, she is in that terrible place you were and hopefully she can get something some support from your good self :smthumbup:


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Things are going better. We have finally stared HB last Saturday and we are still going strong. It all started Friday. The boys had a sleepover so we had the house to ourselves and I took complete advantage of it. I had had a romantic dinner made for us that Friday which was a surprise for him. The dinner went great and we end sleeping in the same bed that night but we didn’t have sex that night. Although it was still a very intimate night we did a lot cuddling and holding each other. That Saturday was when we stared HB. He has become more affectionate towards me again and I’m so glad he has I so missed the way he would hug, hold and kiss and just being able the share the same bed again has been a huge relief. At one point I was going to bed with his t-shirt on just so I could feel close to him. 

On the other hand he still hasn’t said what he wants. So I don’t really know yet I hope since we stared acting like a couple again means he wants to try to R but I really know yet. We really haven’t talked about us or the A in the last few days. I don’t really want to bring it up since part of me is scared of what could happen. Overall I think everything is going ok given how thing were a few weeks back. 

Btw, HB is so much fun it’s definitely some of the best sex we have ever had :smthumbup:


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## turnera

It's a marathon, not a sprint.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Things are going better. We have finally stared HB last Saturday and we are still going strong. It all started Friday. The boys had a sleepover so we had the house to ourselves and I took complete advantage of it. I had had a romantic dinner made for us that Friday which was a surprise for him. The dinner went great and we end sleeping in the same bed that night but we didn’t have sex that night. Although it was still a very intimate night we did a lot cuddling and holding each other. That Saturday was when we stared HB. He has become more affectionate towards me again and I’m so glad he has I so missed the way he would hug, hold and kiss and just being able the share the same bed again has been a huge relief. At one point I was going to bed with his t-shirt on just so I could feel close to him.
> 
> On the other hand he still hasn’t said what he wants. So I don’t really know yet I hope since we stared acting like a couple again means he wants to try to R but I really know yet. We really haven’t talked about us or the A in the last few days. I don’t really want to bring it up since part of me is scared of what could happen. Overall I think everything is going ok given how thing were a few weeks back.
> 
> Btw, HB is so much fun *it’s definitely some of the best sex we have ever had* :smthumbup:


That's great! I hope it all continues to move in the right direction.

Btw, I wouldn't mention that you think it was the best sex you ever had. In light of why you're HBing. I'd be worried that he would start associating you're great night(s) of passion with HB, then in turn the ONS.

I've got my fingers crossed for you.


----------



## tom67

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> That's great! I hope it all continues to move in the right direction.
> 
> Btw, I wouldn't mention that you think it was the best sex you ever had. In light of why you're HBing. I'd be worried that he would start associating you're great night(s) of passion with HB, then in turn the ONS.
> 
> I've got my fingers crossed for you.


Geez good point Gp.


----------



## GusPolinski

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Btw, HB is so much fun it’s definitely some of the best sex we have ever had :smthumbup:


That was certainly my experience as well. In fact, for quite some time, I entertained the thought of picking fights just so I could enjoy the fallout. In fact, some of our discussions since have yielded similar results. 

Either way, congrats! I hope you guys will be able to work things out. His silence is a bit curious, though. I have to believe that, at some point, he's gonna want to talk about the 10,000 elephant sitting not-so-meekly in the corner.


----------



## GusPolinski

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> That's great! I hope it all continues to move in the right direction.
> 
> *Btw, I wouldn't mention that you think it was the best sex you ever had. *In light of why you're HBing. I'd be worried that he would start associating you're great night(s) of passion with HB, then in turn the ONS.
> 
> I've got my fingers crossed for you.


There's probably no need to explicitly mention it. Depending on how "vocal" she is, he's probably acutely aware of it. And he's enjoying it.


----------



## Headspin

This is great BUT 

...be careful

Hysterical bonding is not an expression of "I want you tenderly my life long love" it is what it says on the tin - it is an act of relief of outing high tension

Be aware - it's great fun 

....but it's almost not 'real life' as such
It will not go on forever - there is a shelf life to it 

'real life' will begin when hb drops off - like it will


----------



## Granny7

Headspin said:


> This is great BUT
> 
> ...be careful
> 
> Hysterical bonding is not an expression of "I want you tenderly my life long love" it is what it says on the tin - it is an act of relief of outing high tension
> 
> Be aware - it's great fun
> 
> ....but it's almost not 'real life' as such
> It will not go on forever - there is a shelf life to it
> 
> 'real life' will begin when hb drops off - like it will


Headspin,
I totally agree. It sure did for me, a few months of it and then the questions from me to my CS started up again and then his defensiveness and anger started again. Lots of fights and not much sex. I totally agree, it was just sex, not a signal of a profound love for each other. I hope she makes it though.
Granny7


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

GusPolinski said:


> That was certainly my experience as well. In fact, for quite some time, I entertained the thought of picking fights just so I could enjoy the fallout. In fact, some of our discussions since have yielded similar results.
> 
> Either way, congrats! I hope you guys will be able to work things out. His silence is a bit curious, though. I have to believe that, at some point, he's gonna want to talk about the 10,000 elephant sitting not-so-meekly in the corner.


It’s not that we have talked about because we have just not recently. Last time we talked about it he wanted a separation and he was still on the fence about MC. I do think he’s going to bring it soon since he said his plan was to move out by the end of the month which is coming up soon. So yeah at some point we are going to need talk about what’s going to happen. Kind of scared because I really don’t want him to move out that’s my worst fear right now.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

turnera said:


> It's a marathon, not a sprint.


I know I know, It’s kind of hard for me given I never been a patient person


----------



## LongWalk

Well, what do you say when you are making love? And afterwards?

Do not beg him.

Tell him that you don't want him to leave. Tell him you will wait.

Do not repeat yourself. Say these important things once while looking him in the eye.

Do you think he will seek revenge affairs to restore his masculinity?

You can tell him that he does not need to for your sake.


----------



## turnera

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I know I know, It’s kind of hard for me given I never been a patient person


Well, then, this whole experience has a purpose, right? To guide you along the path of enlightenment and growth.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

If it were me, I would say something like: "Things have seemed more hopeful for us lately, but I want you to know whenever you want or need to talk about anything relating to my mistake, I am ready."

Or maybe something like that. You dont want him to think you are trying to rug-sweep the situation at all. You want your words to be totally accountable, and you want to make sure HE is still the primary focus in this situation. He needs to be reminded of your commitment to him through words and action. Do be ready for the harsh words and low-times...

Good luck!


----------



## Divinely Favored

To me it is an insult when people say "mistake". A mistake is a doing something wrong by overlooking something or not knowing the right moral thing to do. In the case of an adultrous spouse, they intentionally went to where the OM/OW was and intentionally and W/O reguard for betrayed and wounded spouse by actively participating in the affair/ONS. The adulterer wanted to spread there legs and take another man in them or chose to enter another woman. IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE! It was a conscious decision they WANTED AND CHOSE TO DO. BY SAYING IT WAS A MISTAKE, ACTIVELY DISPLACES SOME OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITY AND BLAME FROM THE ACTIONS AND CHOICES OF THE ADULTROUS SPOUSE.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris989

Fantastic News! I was so pleased to read this.

Good luck


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## OptimisticPessimist

Divinely Favored said:


> To me it is an insult when people say "mistake". A mistake is a doing something wrong by overlooking something or not knowing the right moral thing to do. In the case of an adultrous spouse, they intentionally went to where the OM/OW was and intentionally and W/O reguard for betrayed and wounded spouse by actively participating in the affair/ONS. The adulterer wanted to spread there legs and take another man in them or chose to enter another woman. IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE! It was a conscious decision they WANTED AND CHOSE TO DO. BY SAYING IT WAS A MISTAKE, ACTIVELY DISPLACES SOME OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITY AND BLAME FROM THE ACTIONS AND CHOICES OF THE ADULTROUS SPOUSE.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im glad you brought this up. When I wrote this, I had the word "transgression" in my head, but went with mistake as I reasoned transgression would seem wordy. Considering your point, and even further that Un_Amor would likely use spanish terminology anyways, in retrospect I should have just used transgression as it is more accurate.

Mistake implies that the intention was good, but the result was not good due to miscalculation of effects or an error in judgement. Indeed, Un_Amor_Perdido did NOT have a good intention _for her husband_ when she cheated on him; her "intent" was the satiation of her lust, and not the honoring of her husband or her marriage.

Its actually ironic I poorly used this word considering the entire purpose of my post was to encourage Un_Amor to stress to her husband her willingness to meet his needs and her willingness to remain accountable for her transgression. I certainly hope my colloquial use of "mistake" doesnt result in the opposite 

Actually, the best word to use would have been "f*ck up", but as its slang Im not sure Spanish has any direct translation that carries with it the negative connotations associated with "f*ck" used in such a way. 

I think one of the trickiest aspects of this situation is the language barrier that exists; I have mentioned this many times. Just like we tend to "humanize" animals by thinking our dog "loves" or "is mad" or whatever, we tend to think in the way our native language enables us to think; different languages approach the communication of energy-states in different ways however. 

Anyways, thanks for your post and your correction- I agree 100%


----------



## mahike

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I know I know, It’s kind of hard for me given I never been a patient person


You are going to have to learn to be patient. This is based on his schedule and not yours. Up to know all the choices that were made were yours.

He is processing all of this and he is not sure of himself or you right now


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## ifweonly

I have read many references that "you married early and are only a kid yourself". WOW That is soooo narrow and I cannot believe that "maturity" only starts at 30???, 40??? or older. Please, consider that there are many folks at 30 and beyond that are not mature.

My wife was only 19 and I 21 when we got married and that was ---- over 52 years ago. Neither of us experienced sex with others and we are very much in Love today.

So I believe maturity is more a mindset than age. Please stop badgering Un_Amor_Perdido about her young age at marriage. It is so unfortunate what happened but the mistake is a mistake and does not necessarily reflect her youth. She has come clean with her husband and I for one applaud her honesty. I love that she has come to grips with this marriage breach and wish her the very best in the future.


----------



## ifweonly

If my wife had violated our vows and had sex with another man as Un_Amor_Perdido did, the first reasonable thing that I would do is step back and try to envision what my contribution was that drove her to the incident. I firmly believe that there are two causations for infidelity; first the adulterous spouse and his/her spouse. More often than not there is something or some event that the non-adulterous spouse did that may have helped make the adultery situation convenient for the other spouse.

This certainly is not true in every case but I have seen many married couples who's actions that could have set the stage for adultery. I am not an expert at this by no means but upon close examination, I am sure Un_Amor_Perdido's husband is not guiltless in her adultery. NO I am not blaming her husband but he certainly needs to perform some sole searching of his own. In any event, if the marriage survives, they will both be better partners if they are honest with each other.

My heart still goes out to both Un_Amor_Perdido and her husband and however this situation plays out, I trust this will be a real learning experience for both of them.


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## Dyokemm

"I am sure Un_Amor_Perdido's husband is not guiltless in her adultery."

Sorry, my friend, I have to disagree.

The betrayed spouse is NEVER responsible for the cheating.

They are responsible for at least half of the problems pre-A in the M, but the choice to break vows and go outside the M is ENTIRELY on the WS.

The WS had many other options on how to deal with any issues in the M.

Confrontation/demanding change, counseling, even D.

Choosing to betray the M is not even a solution....it just takes a situation that has problems and magnifies those to immense proportions, with a nice helping of infidelity added on top.

It is not a solution for fixing an M, but rather a weapon for blowing it up.


----------



## bandit.45

Start a new thread ifweonly, of you have an axe to grind. Don't threadjack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhillyGuy13

UAP I am very pleased at the progress that you and your husband have made. You have a long way to go for sure. If there was a textbook case of a wayward spouse owning what she did and taking 100% responsibility yours is it.

Keep up the good work.


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## notadoormat

hello. i generally dont post in general cwi due to my situation. im a bs. i see a lot of posts where the ws didnt meet needs of ws. while this is true in some cases it is not in all. 

first, the ws may be getting needs met by bs but ..due to personality factors require a lot of attention. the more *attention* the more the ego gets boosted. secondly, some young marrieds want to explore later in life. some dont. mine did. he wanted to explore different women of ethnic groups. third..my ws became resentful of me for a life choice i made that he knew i was right but negative impact on him and became angry rezentful. even though i met his needs kind of hard to make love to a wife you resent. conflict...want to find someone you dont resent vs leaving your children and breaking up home. 

most affairs happen when the adult become conflicted with wanting someone else vs staying together for kids..hence cake eating. to be honest the ones i know who divorced made enough to afford two homes..and kids were hs before divorce and relationships w others. lets be honest .. not everyone makes 6 figures. 

to address op. if you truly love your spouse...you put them before yourself. replace selfishness and deceit with compassion. caring. ask everyday how he is doing. b.s. are powerless during affairs. give him control. say you will be avail as he needs and will go away when he wants you to..to another room friends or family. its hard being in the same room at times looking at your spouse knowing.. but sometimes we need them present for a reassuring hug..ask a question. this was what i needed anyway and did not get so we did not reconcile. he recently adm he did not regret affair only hurting me. which admits if i did not want him as he falsly claimed he would not of hurt me.

if this is the man you want for life it will be worth the wait.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## owl6118

UAP, it seems time to take a moment to think of you. I hope you are finding a way to connect with your husband and begin to help him. I wish you well.


----------



## Stevenj

Granny7 said:


> Headspin,
> I totally agree. It sure did for me, a few months of it and then the questions from me to my CS started up again and then his defensiveness and anger started again. Lots of fights and not much sex. I totally agree, it was just sex, not a signal of a profound love for each other. I hope she makes it though.
> Granny7


Still in his mind the trust may never come back. It will never quite be the same but glad to hear the progress.


----------



## Paladin

Looks like the thread got some much needed Moderator attention and trimming. Well done! 

Keep up the good work OP, the road to Reconciliation is sometimes rough, but those that have traveled it to its end, can certainly tell you it is worth the effort. Do your best to get into Individual Counseling, working on yourself will set an example for your husband, help you develop self examination tools and lay the foundation for open and honest communication. Counseling will also allow you to bounce all the advice you need to sort through off of an objective observer, helping you embrace good advice that works for you, and dismiss the bad.

Eventually couples counseling will be extremely helpful, and pretty much necessary. While it is possible to develop the communication skills necessary for working on the relationship long term without CC, having it makes it much easier to do.

In our case, the individual counseling we both did helped us identify relevant personal issues that needed work, and the couples counseling helped us develop a working language/system for dealing with joint issues in a positive way.

As mot people say, there really is no clock or standard time frame for how long the process takes. In our case with me being the fBS and her being the fWS, I started to really hit my stride at the 8-15 month mark in terms of moving forward and hardly ever triggering, an by about the 1.5/2 year mark was fully in rebuild/strengthen relationship mode.

These days, if I dont visit this section of TAM, I can go months without ever even thinking of the A, and I dont remember the last time I had major intrusive thoughts about the situation. So there is definitely an "end" when it comes to dealing with this issue, but never an end to working on yourself, your husband, and your relationship, with the expectation that he does the same. Good luck to you and I wish for quick healing for you both.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

April 25th was Un_Amor_Perdido's last post; hopefully all is moving along well. Im sure most of us would like an update if/when she gets the chance 

Any news UAP?


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

Sorry for going cold on you guys for bit I just wanted to take some time away from this site

My husband and me are doing a separation right now. So we are separated right we’ve been separated for a little more than a week right now. He says he just needs space and doesn’t want a divorce yet. I hope that’s true. I’m just trying to keep together but it’s so hard when I miss him so much. We haven’t really talked much since we stared the separation the only time we do talk is when it’s about the kids besides that we don’t talk. The boys haven’t been doing too well either hurting just as much as I am. I don’t really know what to do anymore.


----------



## LongWalk

Un_Amor_Perdido,

I think separation is not good in the long run.

Did you ever have hysterical bonding?

Has your husband had many questions for you?

You have given a timeline of the affair, correct?

You have document NC, correct?

Has you husband asked you not to contact him or speak with him? 

Tell him you will not date and you are waiting for reconciliation?

One thing might help you. Think of what you want to say to him in English. Write it down. Then go over it in Spanish and translate it. In that process you may find little subtleties and nuances that will increase your understanding and strength. 

Do not give up and do not despair. How is the support from your in-laws?


----------



## MattMatt

Stevenj said:


> Still in his mind the trust may never come back. It will never quite be the same but glad to hear the progress.


It takes a while and whilst the trust may never be 100% again, it can still be pretty high, eventually.


----------



## Gert B Frobe

*Re: Re: I told him everything. Please can someone help I need it more than ever*



LongWalk said:


> Un_Amor_Perdido,
> 
> I think separation is not good in the long run.
> 
> Did you ever have hysterical bonding?
> 
> Has your husband had many questions for you?
> 
> You have given a timeline of the affair, correct?
> 
> You have document NC, correct?
> 
> Has you husband asked you not to contact him or speak with him?
> 
> Tell him you will not date and you are waiting for reconciliation?
> 
> One thing might help you. Think of what you want to say to him in English. Write it down. Then go over it in Spanish and translate it. In that process you may find little subtleties and nuances that will increase your understanding and strength.
> 
> Do not give up and do not despair. How is the support from your in-laws?


What is hysterical bonding? You have no idea how afraid I am to ask that.


----------



## cool12

thanks for checking in. 
i'm sorry you are hurting so much, i know you both are, but you did the right thing by being honest with him. 

take care.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Sorry for going cold on you guys for bit I just wanted to take some time away from this site
> 
> My husband and me are doing a separation right now. So we are separated right we’ve been separated for a little more than a week right now. He says he just needs space and doesn’t want a divorce yet. I hope that’s true. I’m just trying to keep together but it’s so hard when I miss him so much. We haven’t really talked much since we stared the separation the only time we do talk is when it’s about the kids besides that we don’t talk. The boys haven’t been doing too well either hurting just as much as I am. I don’t really know what to do anymore.


He should have some time to think and feel. "You can't see the forest through all the trees" kind of thing.

It would be better for both of you if he "truly" knows whether he should D, or try to R, before he decides. Choosing one, then second guessing afterwards would be painful.

Just try not to get impatient if he seems to be waffling. It's a big decision. You've been together for years and have kids. This is a tough decision to be pondering.

From where I stand, I wonder if he had decided to D when he found out. Then, as days turned into weeks, he realized that it wasn't a decision that he could make in hast. The lives of everyone in his family will be effected by what he chooses to do.

It's a very tough decision to have to make. I feel for him. I feel for you also. I'm hoping for the best.

Thank you for the update. I have been wondering about you and you Husband.


----------



## Un_Amor_Perdido

LongWalk said:


> Un_Amor_Perdido,
> 
> I think separation is not good in the long run.
> 
> Did you ever have hysterical bonding?
> 
> Has your husband had many questions for you?
> 
> You have given a timeline of the affair, correct?
> 
> You have document NC, correct?
> 
> Has you husband asked you not to contact him or speak with him?
> 
> Tell him you will not date and you are waiting for reconciliation?
> 
> One thing might help you. Think of what you want to say to him in English. Write it down. Then go over it in Spanish and translate it. In that process you may find little subtleties and nuances that will increase your understanding and strength.
> 
> Do not give up and do not despair. How is the support from your in-laws?



I know a separation isn’t a good sign either. I always though a separation always meant things are pretty much done I hope it isn’t true in our case. My husband and I did share a few weeks of HB which was really great. I kind wish we could go back to that. He asked a few questions most of the obvious ones most BS asks and I have answered all of those questions. Yea I wrote out a timeline of everything from the first day we meet in class to the last time we saw each other. I never wrote a NC letter mostly because I already went NC with my AP and sending him a NC letter would be kind of like breaking NC so I didn’t do it. My husband has never came out and said never contact him again but that’s pretty much a given I know what would happen if I ever talked to my Ap again. My husband knows I want to reconcile and I am planning on waiting for him to make up his mind. My side of the family knows I have told. I haven’t told my inlwas yet my husband told he didn’t want them to know just yet. I was willing to tell them he would rather wait.


----------



## Acabado

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> My side of the family knows I have told. I haven’t told my inlwas yet my husband told he didn’t want them to know just yet. I was willing to tell them he would rather wait.


I do believe it's actualy goods news. It means he's not done actually and still consider R. He fears his parents won't aprove his decision to R if he finnaly decides it, he also doesn't want them to look at your diferently at family gatherings and he doesn't need their pressure any way or the other. He senses they won't be "friends of the marriage" in case R is the path.


----------



## xakulax

Acabado said:


> I do believe it's actualy goods news. It means he's not done actually and still consider R. He fears his parents won't aprove his decision to R if he finnaly decides it, he also doesn't want them to look at your diferently at family gatherings and he doesn't need their pressure any way or the other. He senses they won't be "friends of the marriage" in case R is the path.




:iagree:


I would consider that a good sign wile in limbo/separation


----------



## PhillyGuy13

hang in there UAP. Hoping for the best for you.


----------



## Cynthia

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I know a separation isn’t a good sign either.


True, but he hasn't asked for a divorce. I recommend that you learn how to make him feel good while he is around you. He should feel safe and respected around you. As you focus on doing that, he will be much more likely to draw back to you.
Do not grovel or beg or make it look like you are trying to win him back. Be confident and build him as the man you love. Share with him what you love about him and encourage him in doing the things he does right. This is the most likely way to win back his heart.


----------



## Paladin

I totally understand you when you say you needed a break from CWI, but you might want to branch out into some of the other sections here on TAM that don't deal directly with the avalanche of pain/anger that seem to be the norm in here(cwi) There is decent relationship advice sprinkled throughout TAM. 

I have not reviewed the thread in a while, but are you seeing a counselor regularly? Counseling is pretty much a requirement regardless of how things turn out, and may in fact help you/him get the results you actually want after the dust settles.

I personally dislike the concept of separation if there is even a glimmer of hope for R. People can't work on an issue together if they are apart. The deeper issue here, and the more difficult one for most remorseful fWS to deal with, is making sure that while you two are still officially married, the marriage is respected, defended, and treated as properly as possible under the circumstances.

Most remorseful fWS have a hard time recognizing and addressing toxic behavior the fBS might be engaging in early in the process. The feelings of guilt, regret, and shame often make a fWS think they will be seen as a hypocrite if they point out such behavior and lay down proper marital boundaries. 

It doesn't stop being a marriage just because one person screwed up. It stops being a marriage when divorce is finalized. It is never too late to embrace healthy marital boundaries regardless of what side of the mess one finds themselves on.

If you suspect that he is using the separation for anything other than soul searching, you have to openly address it. Its hard enough rebuilding when one person is dealing with the guilt and shame and the other is dealing with pain and insecurity. It becomes a monumentally difficult task if both spouses are hurting and guilty. That is really the only outcome from revenge affairs (not saying he is having a revenge affair, but cautioning you to make sure things stay as healthy as possible right now)

Do you two have a concrete end date to this separation? Did you guys discuss and agree on the rules before it started? Is he totally by himself, or is there someone who can help him be grounded/accountable at the present moment? What is his sated reason for not telling his side of the family about the issue? Is he getting any support from your side of the family? Has he said when/if he will be telling his folks?

In my personal experience, the family usually ends up backing the choice made by their child about the issue, mine did, and my family still loves my wife as do I. If he tells his family and chooses to reconcile, I doubt anyone from his side of it would look differently on her during family functions. He might be questioned about his choice, but if he seems to be of sound mind to his folks, they will respect what he wants to do. If they don't, they are toxic anyway and would be bad for the relationship in any case.


----------



## cpacan

Paladin said:


> I totally understand you when you say you needed a break from CWI, but you might want to branch out into some of the other sections here on TAM that don't deal directly with the avalanche of pain/anger that seem to be the norm in here(cwi) There is decent relationship advice sprinkled throughout TAM.
> 
> I have not reviewed the thread in a while, but are you seeing a counselor regularly? Counseling is pretty much a requirement regardless of how things turn out, and may in fact help you/him get the results you actually want after the dust settles.
> 
> I personally dislike the concept of separation if there is even a glimmer of hope for R. People can't work on an issue together if they are apart. The deeper issue here, and the more difficult one for most remorseful fWS to deal with, is making sure that while you two are still officially married, the marriage is respected, defended, and treated as properly as possible under the circumstances.
> 
> Most remorseful fWS have a hard time recognizing and addressing toxic behavior the fBS might be engaging in early in the process. The feelings of guilt, regret, and shame often make a fWS think they will be seen as a hypocrite if they point out such behavior and lay down proper marital boundaries.
> 
> It doesn't stop being a marriage just because one person screwed up. It stops being a marriage when divorce is finalized. It is never too late to embrace healthy marital boundaries regardless of what side of the mess one finds themselves on.
> 
> If you suspect that he is using the separation for anything other than soul searching, you have to openly address it. Its hard enough rebuilding when one person is dealing with the guilt and shame and the other is dealing with pain and insecurity. It becomes a monumentally difficult task if both spouses are hurting and guilty. That is really the only outcome from revenge affairs (not saying he is having a revenge affair, but cautioning you to make sure things stay as healthy as possible right now)
> 
> Do you two have a concrete end date to this separation? Did you guys discuss and agree on the rules before it started? Is he totally by himself, or is there someone who can help him be grounded/accountable at the present moment? What is his sated reason for not telling his side of the family about the issue? Is he getting any support from your side of the family? Has he said when/if he will be telling his folks?
> 
> In my personal experience, the family usually ends up backing the choice made by their child about the issue, mine did, and my family still loves my wife as do I. If he tells his family and chooses to reconcile, I doubt anyone from his side of it would look differently on her during family functions. He might be questioned about his choice, but if he seems to be of sound mind to his folks, they will respect what he wants to do. If they don't, they are toxic anyway and would be bad for the relationship in any case.


I smell danger in this advice. Had my wife had this attitude, we wouldn't have tried to mend things for so long - I would simply have walked.

You say the WS is often afraid to be seen as hypocrites if they enforce boundaries? Well, in my book it IS hypocrisy. To state openly that I can break the contract and screw whoever I like, whenever I like, but you must keep your end of the bargain just doesn't sound right, does it.

As for the statement that the marriage is still a marriage even if one partner has shredded the paper to pieces and violated the very core of the intend of the contract - I don't feel bound by the contract as such (I don't pay the carpenter either if he fails to deliver what we've agreed upon). Why do you think so many BS find it hard to look at the wedding pictures and to wear the ring again? (lots of threads on TAM and other boards as well about this). Personally, I don't wear my ring, I trigger from the photos of the wedding role play. It's because the contract and the symbols are void. Not because I don't care for her, I do, she just demonstrated to me that she doesn't care about the contract and the intentions behind it. If I choose not to cheat on her, it's not because of the marriage or the contract, it's because I don't want to and because I'm not that kind of guy.

If I could have had it my way, I wish she would have humbled herself, just a bit, shown in word as well as action, that she was sorry about what happened. She couldn't swallow her pride, and she couln't accept that her outward attitude had to change which has made the process very difficult - had she added the attitude that she would keep an extra eye on me, just to make sure that I didn't flirt or cheat, just to make sure that I wouldn't regain my confidence or sense of self worth, or because it's part of the contract, I would've felt insulted and left her within a second.

My advice is to hold back on demands and ultimatums untill there's a stronger foundation for negotiations and re-establishing some sort of new agreement. For many BS, the marriage contract can't be the same or viewed the same again ever. I don't know about Mr. UAP, he may be different - she knows him best.

Work on yourself, acknowledge your betrayal, adjust your thoughts, values and behaviour - figure out how to show your husband respect (key), and be consistant, that'll be your best bet IMO.

Still wish you luck, UAP, you've done good things since disclosure.


----------



## LongWalk

Did you read Tears's thread? Did you get any advice from her via PM?


----------



## Paladin

cpacan said:


> I smell danger in this advice. Had my wife had this attitude, we wouldn't have tried to mend things for so long - I would simply have walked.


What does this have to do with you and your wife? What exactly do you mean by "this" attitude? Do you mean an attitude of respecting, strengthening, and defending the marriage by adopting healthy boundaries, or at the very least signaling to your spouse that you understand what that means and why it is necessary to do so? Yes why would anyone want to reconcile with a person like that, right?



cpacan said:


> You say the WS is often afraid to be seen as hypocrites if they enforce boundaries? Well, in my book it IS hypocrisy. To state openly that I can break the contract and screw whoever I like, whenever I like, but you must keep your end of the bargain just doesn't sound right, does it.


The word "remorseful" is used repeatedly in my post. I cant think of a single instance when a fWS was remorseful and still "stated openly" to use your words, that they wanted to keep screwing around and expected the fBS to still adhere to marital boundaries. I am very curious to hear how you made this leap in logic based on what I wrote. 



cpacan said:


> As for the statement that the marriage is still a marriage even if one partner has shredded the paper to pieces and violated the very core of the intend of the contract - I don't feel bound by the contract as such (I don't pay the carpenter either if he fails to deliver what we've agreed upon). Why do you think so many BS find it hard to look at the wedding pictures and to wear the ring again? (lots of threads on TAM and other boards as well about this). Personally, I don't wear my ring, I trigger from the photos of the wedding role play. It's because the contract and the symbols are void. Not because I don't care for her, I do, she just demonstrated to me that she doesn't care about the contract and the intentions behind it. If I choose not to cheat on her, it's not because of the marriage or the contract, it's because I don't want to and because I'm not that kind of guy.


There is just so much to address in this quote, I will try to be brief and if you need further explanation feel free to ask. A marriage is a contract recognized by the state, there are a specific set of steps a person needs to take to officially and legally break/dissolve that contract. Infidelity does not end a marriage, neither does financial stress, illness, or any other dysfunctional thing that could occur while two people are living their lives together. 

Divorce ends a marriage, and if you truly felt like the contract was null and void because of her actions, and you were free to do as you please, did that apply in reverse as well? Was your spouse then free as well, or is there a double standard being presented here?

Again, the OP is not your fWS, and while your fWS may have demonstrated that she did/does not care about the marriage, it is certainly not the case with the OP. You also say that you would not cheat on your spouse because you are "not that kind of guy" and not because of the commitment you made when you took your vows. In your opinion, what is the difference then between marriage and casual monogamous relationships? 

[BTW you still have to pay the contractor, you can then sue his/her insurance to recoup your damages based on whatever claim you were making. If you don't pay, you are breaking the contract/law and could potentially face a mechanics lean on any secured property you own for the money you were supposed to pay] 




cpacan said:


> If I could have had it my way, I wish she would have humbled herself, just a bit, shown in word as well as action, that she was sorry about what happened. She couldn't swallow her pride, and she couln't accept that her outward attitude had to change which has made the process very difficult - had she added the attitude that she would keep an extra eye on me, just to make sure that I didn't flirt or cheat, just to make sure that I wouldn't regain my confidence or sense of self worth, or because it's part of the contract, I would've felt insulted and left her within a second.


Marriages do not break down in a vacuum, nor are they broken by one person alone. The mantra of "problems leading up to the collapse of a marriage and infidelity are generally 50/50, while the actual act of infidelity itself is squarely on the shoulders of the WS" is used very often here on TAM, and has been mentioned in this thread a few times. 

In almost every successful true reconciliation story posted here, both spouses make changes to their outward attitudes to forge a way forward that embraces a healthy and functional relationship. If the responsibility of making all the changes and corrections to the relationship is dumped solely in the lap of one of the spouses (either fBS or fWS) there really isn't a chance to rebuild and reconcile. 

People tend to have a very hard time accepting and working on their flaws, if those flaws are constantly pointed out to them by a person who is taking the moral high ground and shows no interest in making any changes. 




cpacan said:


> My advice is to hold back on demands and ultimatums untill there's a stronger foundation for negotiations and re-establishing some sort of new agreement. For many BS, the marriage contract can't be the same or viewed the same again ever. I don't know about Mr. UAP, he may be different - she knows him best.


A person does not need to issue ultimatums to express their understanding of what a proper marriage and relationship should and should not include. No one is telling the OP (or you) that there has to be a return to the status quo of the past. One of the points of my post was to bring attention to the fact that it is the responsibility of both spouses to ensure that a relationship is healthy and heading in the right direction. 

Even though it may be tempting for the OP to allow/accept dysfunctional/toxic behavior from her spouse because of her remorse, shame, and guilt, if she truly wants Reconciliation and a healthy and functional relationship moving forward, she has to understand and defend proper marital boundaries at all times. Anything short of that will just put doubt in her spouse's mind about her ability to understand what a proper marriage should look like. 




cpacan said:


> Work on yourself, acknowledge your betrayal, adjust your thoughts, values and behaviour - figure out how to show your husband respect (key), and be consistant, that'll be your best bet IMO.
> 
> Still wish you luck, UAP, you've done good things since disclosure.


The OP has been doing the things you mention here. Consistency is extremely important, especially when it comes to laying down and defending proper marital boundaries. In my personal opinion, doing what I mention is the absolute best way for her to show her husband the respect you point out as being key. 

From my own experience, one of the things that truly galvanized reconciliation for me was my spouse's ability to express dissatisfaction (while still maintaining love, compassion, kindness and charity) with any dysfunctional behaviors she noticed in me or herself, and her willingness to do the hard work necessary to resolve those issues while expecting the same in return from me. 

That clearly signaled to me that she would not be content with the status quo and that she was truly invested in a functional, happy future with me. We always call it the "commitment to the commitment," and it has been one of the best tools to help us prevent any type of resentment from taking root and poisoning our efforts.


TLDR: Humans are fallible creatures. Two wrongs never make a right. Adult love is conditional, and one of those conditions should be an unwavering commitment to a healthy and happy relationship with proper communication and boundaries. 

Sometimes means doing the hard thing by talking about uncomfortable stuff and having expectations from each other without taking the moral high-ground, becoming defensive or hostile, and without keeping a "tit for tat" scorecard of slights committed against each other. 

Every single moment of every single day is a chance to do the right thing and improve our situations regardless of how wrong we might have been in the past about the issues, especially marriage.

Being a BS/fBS does not give you the right to neglect your responsibilities in making a marriage work. If you do not want to do the work because you are unable to let go of the pain you felt/feel, divorce, but until you are divorced, or legally separated, you do not have the right to "check out" on your marriage or spouse. 

Expecting your fWS to be a supplicant by complying with a double standard in the relationship is wrong and will simply expedite the destruction of that relationship and reconciliation efforts.


----------



## LongWalk

Un_Amor_Perdido,

It is spinning round and round in your husband's head: a wife who could cheat. If you divorce, he may on to marry another woman. She may be a woman who would never cheat or a woman who would cheat and never tell. You fall into another, probably rarer category, a person who lost her integrity and took a risk to regain it.

Your husband ought to ask himself about the difference between you and the other theoretical women in his life.

When you cheated you took a risk. When you confessed you took another risk. Perhaps a good one despite the cost. Now your husband must decide on what risks he wants to take.


----------



## cpacan

Paladin said:


> What does this have to do with you and your wife? What exactly do you mean by "this" attitude? Do you mean an attitude of respecting, strengthening, and defending the marriage by adopting healthy boundaries, or at the very least signaling to your spouse that you understand what that means and why it is necessary to do so? Yes why would anyone want to reconcile with a person like that, right?
> 
> The word "remorseful" is used repeatedly in my post. I cant think of a single instance when a fWS was remorseful and still "stated openly" to use your words, that they wanted to keep screwing around and expected the fBS to still adhere to marital boundaries. I am very curious to hear how you made this leap in logic based on what I wrote.
> 
> ... snip for brevity...
> 
> Being a BS/fBS does not give you the right to neglect your responsibilities in making a marriage work. If you do not want to do the work because you are unable to let go of the pain you felt/feel, divorce, but until you are divorced, or legally separated, you do not have the right to "check out" on your marriage or spouse *[well, this is what happened nonetheless, no?]*.
> 
> Expecting your fWS to be a supplicant by complying with a double standard in the relationship is wrong and will simply expedite the destruction of that relationship and reconciliation efforts.


I will answer this in short terms. I cross my fingers for UAP, I really do, I think she has done many things right, also many things I would have wished for in our fallout.

I agree on some of the things you describe in your post, the only thing I really wanted to point out is that IMO, you're the one having double standards.

My definition of hypocrisy is (also supported in some dictionaries) when you expect other people to follow a standard you can't or won't follow yourself.

Untill proven otherwise, OP has demonstrated that she can't keep her promisses, and you say it's perfectly OK for her to pick on her husband in order to make him follow the rules (previous rules, that is). You think it's OK, I would take offense - we don't need to agree on this, I'm only advising OP to be carefull here.

As for paying a contractor; I guess the rules are different in our respective countries. Where I live, you don't need to pay for services you don't receive. You can hold back the payment, within reasonable time make a complaint/claim with the contractor making him aware that he has broken the contract. He can disagree and take the case to court or fullfill his part of the deal. If he takes it to court, the judge will decidee whether you need to pay, in whole, in part or nothing at all. 

I'm well aware that you need to file for divorce to get rid of each other _technically_ in terms of the law. But in my opinion, a contract that one partner by choice doesn't comply with, is nothing but a piece of paper. I don't know if OP's husband share this view, I admit, I will just advice caution. 

I think her energy is much better spend in making sure that she stays within boundaries herself than pointing fingers at her husband (and don't even get me started on the 50/50 thing).


----------



## mahike

UAP I know that separation seems like a road you are heading down but that fact that he does not want to tell his parents at least yet may have to do with making up his own mind and he has not given up on the marriage.

Our you in IC or MC? I hope so and keep going. 

I hope he sees that you made a terrible mistake and are willing to spend the rest of your life to repair things. I always hope for R. When he is ready to really talk hold nothing back


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## Paladin

cpacan said:


> I agree on some of the things you describe in your post, the only thing I really wanted to point out is that IMO, you're the one having double standards.


Im always willing to reevaluate a position when presented with a valid reason to do so. The reason can be something as simple as a point of view I overlooked or an opinion I had not considered. If you can be a bit more specific and help me understand where you think I put forward a double standard, I would certainly hear you out.

My issue with what you said above revolved around the notion that a fWS by default can not and should not have any expectations from the fBS about maintaining proper and healthy marital boundaries. I think that idea and advice is far more toxic and dangerous than anything I actually posted, because of the potential for the fBS to perceive the fWS as "checked out" or "not invested" in the relationship/marriage/reconciliation by accepting dysfunctional behavior as the status quo. 

If early in the reconciliation process I started to delete my texts, browsing history and began spending lots of time apart from my spouse and she did not bring attention to it as a concern, I would have felt like she didnt actually care about the relationship or a future, and was simply hanging around to do penance to absolve herself of guilt. 




cpacan said:


> My definition of hypocrisy is (also supported in some dictionaries) when you expect other people to follow a standard you can't or won't follow yourself.
> 
> Untill proven otherwise, OP has demonstrated that she can't keep her promisses, and you say it's perfectly OK for her to pick on her husband in order to make him follow the rules (previous rules, that is). You think it's OK, I would take offense - we don't need to agree on this, I'm only advising OP to be carefull here.


What about all the time she spent with her husband as a loving and faithful wife? Does the past just get erased when a person screws up, or can we actually embrace the idea that people are more than the sum of their actions?

Why is there a need to place such disproportional weight on such a short sample size of time(her ONS), when you have the entire marital history to draw on for examples of her fidelity and ability to keep promises?

I also dont understand how identifying potentially dysfunctional behavior and expressing concern about it can be equated with "picking" on her husband and "making" him follow some arbitrary rules? (she can only control her actions anyway, she cant control his) In addition to that, what makes you think that she can't or won't adhere to these standards herself? 

I dont see her using any language or see her describing any behavior that suggests she is unwilling to adhere to these boundaries while expecting him to do so. 

The reason I initially chimed in was to make sure she knew it was ok to have these expectations if she is truly committed to reconciliation. That having these expectations, and expecting him to have these expectations of her, is probably the most constructive way forward, and failing to speak up because she is guilty may be way more damaging than facing some potentially uncomfortable conversations.



cpacan said:


> I'm well aware that you need to file for divorce to get rid of each other _technically_ in terms of the law. But in my opinion, a contract that one partner by choice doesn't comply with, is nothing but a piece of paper. I don't know if OP's husband share this view, I admit, I will just advice caution.
> 
> I think her energy is much better spend in making sure that she stays within boundaries herself than pointing fingers at her husband (and don't even get me started on the 50/50 thing).


I know you are aware about the legality of divorce, and I understood what you meant when you said that you feel once a marital contract is broken by one spouse, the other should no longer feel obligated to follow it. I simply disagree with you. 

I dont know if your vows included "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad, till death do us part," ours did, and even though some people here on TAM said that I should no longer uphold those vows, and even my lawyer tried to tell me to go get laid while figuring out how I wanted to proceed, I never felt like my spouses dysfunction at the time invalidated the promises/vows *I* made when we got married.

In fact, it was my desire to uphold, respect, and protect the "elevated" status that a marriage should have, that actually helped convince me to speak to the attorney in the first place. I knew that accepting the status quo was horribly disrespectful to the idea of marriage, and if my spouse could not or would not end her A, I could not continue to be her "husband" and would need to file for D. 

She committed to NC and R without me ever mentioning that I got legal counsel, even though it was one of the hardest things I ever had to do in my life. Harder than telling my parents and hers about the A, harder than any emotional or stressful conversation we've had since then too. Mainly because for the first time since meeting her in high school I had to accept the possibility of not having her by my side for the rest of my life.

A bit of a tangent, but informs this discussion a bit by illustrating that doing the right thing is sometimes way harder than doing the dysfunctional thing, but is absolutely necessary for moving forward in a healthy and functional way.


----------



## Philat

Gert B Frobe said:


> What is hysterical bonding? You have no idea how afraid I am to ask that.


Gert: In case no one's answered this yet (the following is from Marriage Advocates):

_While the steps of progression are not universal or the same for everyone, initially when you first enter into recovery, your primary emotion is going to be relief. Relief that it is finally 'all over'. Relief that things can 'get back to normal'. There may be a period of of what is termed 'hysterical bonding' between you and your WS. Often this is manifested in the form of frequent sex, far in excess of what may have been 'normal' pre infidelity. There is very little information on this phenomenon, but it appears to be a primal, instinctual way for the partners to reconnect and reclaim each other. While it may feel counter-intuitive to the BS; as if they are 'rewarding' the WS for the affair, hysterical bonding can be a stepping stone to reconciliation. The intimacy encourages communication and a closeness that may otherwise take some time to re-build. For some BS's it is a way of 'reclaiming' the WS, or 'overwriting' the OP from the WS's memories. Hysterical bonding may not happen for you, some BS's find it takes time before they desire intimacy with their WS. This is completely normal and has no relation as to the possible success or failure of your recovery. As far as how long hysterical bonding will last - again it will rely on many factors. Our advice is if you are enjoying it, enjoy it. If you are not, talk about it with your spouse. Communication is a strong factor in a successful relationship._


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## GusPolinski

I didn't answer because hey, Google. Here is the condensed version, though...

HB is some of the most emotionally intense, mentally confusing, and physically aggressive sex that you'll ever have. If only there were a way -- short of infidelity -- to tap into the brain chemicals that bring HB about... 

OH BOY!!!


----------



## Paladin

GusPolinski said:


> I didn't answer because hey, Google. Here is the condensed version, though...
> 
> HB is some of the most emotionally intense, mentally confusing, and physically aggressive sex that you'll ever have. If only there were a way -- short of infidelity -- to tap into the brain chemicals that bring HB about...
> 
> OH BOY!!!


Various illicit substances can cause the release and prevent the re-uptake of dopamine. Certain combinations can cause the release of oxytocin, as well as lower inhibition, and interfere with normative decision making skills. 

I can certainly see combinations that include stimulation, release the chemicals I mention, and act on the GABA receptor sites as coming very close to causing the states of "emotionally intense, confusing, aggressive sex." Combine that with elevated tactile sensation and you are as close as you can get to HB without the precursor of infidelity. 

The obvious down side is severe risk of addiction as well as some possible neurotoxicity that may occur if dopamine uptake is forced to take place through receptors that do not usually handle it. Although at the end of the day, I cant really say what has a higher potential for damage. The ****tail I mention, or hitting HB through "traditional" means.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

It’s been awhile since I last posted so I thought I would give you an update I know a lot of posters have been following my thread

My husband and I are still going through a separation. Although things have started to get a little better between us. We stared talking again which I feel like its pretty big since he hasn’t really wanted any kind of contact with or tried talking to me for almost a month. He’s been kind of cold towards me for the most part until now where he has started talking to me again. We also stared spending some time together most of the time it’s with the kids we haven’t really done anything without them. Most of the times it’s us four watching a few world cup games together. It’s at least start from where I was a month ago. I hope it continues to get better. 

Overall I have been feeling a lot better about myself. I fell IC has been reason why. My counselor has been great and a huge help. I feel like am doing much better now I’m at least able to function and I have started eating better too. I still have those days where I just break down and cry but overall I feel like I’m doing better. Sleep can still be a problem some nights. It’s hard getting used to be alone at night. I wish I could say the boys have been doing better but I can tell their having a hard time with everything. I wish there was something to all of this easier on them. 

I promise to keep you guys updated if anything else happens


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## sidney2718

Thank you for the update. Things do sound a bit better. Just remember that you have friends here.


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## Cynthia

I'm so glad you are in counseling and it's helping you.
Hopefully this family time will grow and your husband will miss you and want to work through this. I hope he can heal and be able to trust you again. And I hope that you will do whatever it takes to be the trustworthy person that you obviously want to be. Blessings to you.


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## manticore

you could try to program fun activities for the kids including him (asking him to come to spend time with the kids), having good time with his kids and you may reamind him the good feeling of family unity and motivate him more to try R fully commited,

remember to have a program already structured for R (MC, IC, helpful books, 100% transparency policy with mails, social media, phones messages and calls and also the posibility of shut them donw if he wants) he have to see that you have already thought of all the ways to heal him and assure him that this will never happend again he seeing that you want reconcilation is not enough he have to feel taht you desire it with all your soul.


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## PhillyGuy13

Hang in there! Don't be afraid to vent here, cry, get upset. You are a good person UAP And I hope everything was out in the end.


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## Suspecting2014

Hope you are well

Any update?


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Suspecting2014 said:


> Hope you are well
> 
> Any update?


I actually do I have a good update

My husband and I are still talking. We stared talking a lot more lately. We also stared spending more time together as a family. So things have been going good. Yesterday awhile we were texting each other. He stared talking about a viewing party he was going to go watch the world cup final. He asked me if I would like to go with him of course I said yes. So we both are going together and it will be the first time since the separation stared that we will do something together without the kids. I’m happy and super excited.


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## manticore

sounds like a date, so prettier yourself, and don't bring R as subject, give him the time of his life and let him with a good feeling of your date, if he brings the subject then talk about it, but if not then just let him enjoy a good sunday watching the final match with his friends and "date"

there will be a time to talk about R, but now he is probably testing waters to see how he feel about you, so avoid things that you could think that may end in him triggering (clothes, comments, topics, think of everything before hand).


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## OptimisticPessimist

manticore said:


> sounds like a date, so prettier yourself, and don't bring R as subject, give him the time of his life and let him with a good feeling of your date, if he brings the subject then talk about it, but if not then just let him enjoy a good sunday watching the final match with his friends and "date"
> 
> there will be a time to talk about R, but now he is probably testing waters to see how he feel about you, so avoid things that you could think that may end in him triggering (clothes, comments, topics, think of everything before hand).


I agree with this advice 100%. Dont bring it up! Be normal and enjoy the game with him. If he brings it up, talk with him about it and answer any questions he has.


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## MattMatt

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> It’s been awhile since I last posted so I thought I would give you an update I know a lot of posters have been following my thread
> 
> My husband and I are still going through a separation. Although things have started to get a little better between us. We stared talking again which I feel like its pretty big since he hasn’t really wanted any kind of contact with or tried talking to me for almost a month. He’s been kind of cold towards me for the most part until now where he has started talking to me again. We also stared spending some time together most of the time it’s with the kids we haven’t really done anything without them. Most of the times it’s us four watching a few world cup games together. It’s at least start from where I was a month ago. I hope it continues to get better.
> 
> Overall I have been feeling a lot better about myself. I fell IC has been reason why. My counselor has been great and a huge help. I feel like am doing much better now I’m at least able to function and I have started eating better too. I still have those days where I just break down and cry but overall I feel like I’m doing better. Sleep can still be a problem some nights. It’s hard getting used to be alone at night. I wish I could say the boys have been doing better but I can tell their having a hard time with everything. I wish there was something to all of this easier on them.
> 
> I promise to keep you guys updated if anything else happens


Rescue Remedy Sleep version is very helpful, I find. BTW, in case anyone wonders, there's no alcohol in it.


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## PhillyGuy13

Nice update UAP!!

Play it cool... Pretend he's a boy you like and he asked you to come over and hang out 

Cheer for whoever he is cheering for... Regardless of who you like (if anyone). guys eat that up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Happy you are communicating.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Q tip

UAP,

How are you doing.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Q tip said:


> UAP,
> 
> How are you doing.


I’m doing pretty good. Things between me and hubby are also getting better. We have been spending more with each other and as a family so that’s. Both me and him plan to spend today together I invited him to go with me to Ezoo and he said say. He’s actually going pick me up soon I’m really excited about it since we haven’t really spent a whole day together since he moved out. We are still going through the separation though but we are talking more and we see each other more too. I’m still hoping to be able reconcile with at some point and now I feel like that really want happen. It’s just going take a while and I’m fine with that i just really want him home again.


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## LongWalk

You are brave and determined.

We all wish you the best of luck.

Will you dare to kiss him or wait for him to make the first move?

Whatever works works.


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## LongWalk

How did it go? Does your husband see you as committed and faithful?


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Since the last time I posted thing have started to take a turn for the better. Labor Day weekend is where everything really started getting better. We were intimate for the first time during the separation during that weekend. From there we slow stared spending more time together just us without the kids and we stared sleeping together more regularly. Some nights he would actually stay the night. Around this time he brought up marriage counseling. I jumped at that chance and agreed to try marriage counseling. We have already been to two sessions already and its seems to be going good. He also agreed to move in but on grounds we stay in separate rooms. Someone on this site give me the idea and hubby seemed to like it. So he is moved in with us me and the kids but sleeps in the guest room downstairs, although I have been going to sleep in the guest room with him. He hasn’t told me no or anything so I plan to continue to do until he says something. Plus I missed not being able to sleep next to him. He’s been here since the first of October so he’s only been her fora few days a week yesterday. He hasn’t agreed to reconcile just yet but with everything going on it looks like we will well that’s what I hope and I’m supper happy about that. This whole thing has been like a living hell for me and for him to. I just hope we can put this behind us and start working on us. Although part me feels like this is only the being and it’s going to get a lot harder but that’s all right I am just glad he’s home. It’s also great since the holidays are right around the corner and having us altogether is great at one point I didn’t think we would ever be together again.

I promise to keep all you guys updated. I am really happy I found this forum you guys have help me so much and I don’t know what I would have done if it wasn’t for all you guys. A lot of you guys are the reason I was able to pull through this so thank you. I really mean that you guys are awesome.


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## happy as a clam

UAP... I'm Sooooo happy for you -- things seem to be working out very well. When this is all behind you both, you will never regret for a moment telling him the truth. I know it's been awful, but imagine trying to live the rest of your life keeping that secret 

I know EXACTLY how you feel about wanting to sleep near your man (glad you're crawling in to the guest room :smthumbup

I can hardly breathe at night (probably some kind of crazy panic attack!) at the thought of not being able to snuggle against my Honey. I don't sleep well when he's not there.

So glad that things are looking up for your whole family


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## rustytheboyrobot

I'm so happy to hear this update! I've read that it takes roughly two years to actually rebuild some trust. Might take longer. Your perserverence has been very good for me to read over the last eight months.

How are your kids handling all of this? Can I ask how old they are?


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## Cynthia

This is encouraging news. I agree that it is best that you told him and don't have a terrible secret all your life. You two will be living the truth together. I'm happy for you and your family. Keep up the good work and God bless you.


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## Mr Blunt

I responded to your thread about a month after you posted in March 2014 and said the following:



> “You are in the very early stages but there seems to be a lot of hope.”


Your latest post below tells me that there is now even more hope.



> Around this time he brought up marriage counseling
> He also agreed to move in but on grounds we stay in separate rooms.
> 
> Although part me feels like this is only the beginning and it’s going to get a lot harder but that’s all right I am just glad he’s home.



I am glad to read this post because you are mostly right there will be more hard times. I am not sure that there will be a lot more of “Lot harder” as the shock is starting to wind down for him.

I am also glad to read where you understand and are willing to go through more pain. That will happen.
I am not trying to discourage you but tell you what I think will be your reality. Six months is not nearly enough time to think that this crisis is over or even half ever. 

If your husband thought that your were 100% dedicated to him and would never betray him then that will probably never return. That is the permanent loss of infidelity. However, you both can gain in so many other areas that you can possibly wind up better off than you were before. I have headed a few BS-WS say that on this TAM forum.


Because I think that you have a better than 50/50 chance of putting your family back together I will repeat below what I told you back in April and May.

*



I would advise that you be hysterical about showing your dedication to him and your loathing for what you did. At the same time get all the information that you can about you forgiving yourself then take actions according to the information that you got.

I think that the best thing you can do right now is to use the motivation that you have to improve yourself in a way that would be appealing to your husband and yourself.

Click to expand...

*

I hope that you and your husband work hard at keeping the affections going and the actions that prove that you both are 100% dedicated because that is what is so desperately needed now and it will be very important in the years ahead because after the first few years both of you can very easily fall back into taking each other for granted.

*
Right now it appears that there is reason to be optimistic*


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## Squeakr

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> I just hope we can put this behind us and start working on us.


I am happy that things are better and looking up.

The statement I quoted is the one that stuck out to me. You need to discuss this with your MC, as I don't think this will ever happen. It will always be the elephant in the room and is something that you need to work on "living with and moving beyond the sole focus in your marriage" and not putting it behind you. It might seem to be the same thing (semantics), but your statement sounds like you just want more o forget it ever happened than fix it, which is something that will never happen as it will forever be a part of you. It wiil not be something that defines you, but will forever be there wherever you go and in everything you do so you need to learn to live with it.

Good luck.


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## Jasel

Glad things are looking up for you guys. Thanks for the update


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## PhillyGuy13

Two thumbs up UAP!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Do you think confession was the right path?

Does the fact that you confessed win you points with your husband?

When you were at last intimate did you feel very anxious that it had to be great sex?

Can your husband say that he loves you?


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

happy as a clam said:


> UAP... I'm Sooooo happy for you -- things seem to be working out very well. When this is all behind you both, you will never regret for a moment telling him the truth. I know it's been awful, but imagine trying to live the rest of your life keeping that secret
> 
> I know EXACTLY how you feel about wanting to sleep near your man (glad you're crawling in to the guest room :smthumbup
> 
> I can hardly breathe at night (probably some kind of crazy panic attack!) at the thought of not being able to snuggle against my Honey. I don't sleep well when he's not there.
> 
> So glad that things are looking up for your whole family


I know I wouldn’t be able to live with something like that. I’m not going to lie I thought about maybe telling me wasn’t the right thing to do and maybe I should have just kept my secret to myself. Honesty I don’t think I could have and I don’t believe my marriage would have lasted that much more with that kind of secret over your heads. The lies would have it killed sooner or later and I probably wouldn’t have been giving the chance I have now to make things right

I hated not being able to sleep next to him, I hated it. I don’t think I can or will ever be used to not sleep next to him. The nights have been the hardest part of this whole situation. I felt so lonely and alone. At first I felt kind of bad for going into his room since it wasn’t what we agreed on but I just couldn’t go another night without him knowing he just down stairs. I guess it was the right move since he doesn’t seem mind one bit.


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## PhillyGuy13

Lol if he didn't want you in there with him he would have told you.

It's a great move on your part, going to him, shows him that you want him and desire him. He needs to know that.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

rustytheboyrobot said:


> I'm so happy to hear this update! I've read that it takes roughly two years to actually rebuild some trust. Might take longer. Your perserverence has been very good for me to read over the last eight months.
> 
> How are your kids handling all of this? Can I ask how old they are?


We have 8 year old twins. Well now that he’s home again their happy as can be. At first the separation was really hard on them. My husband and my boys didn’t really spend that much time with each other growing up and during their first few years something my husband felt really guilt about mostly because of school and work he was only really around the weekend. But for the last two years he really tried to make up for the time he lost and the 3 of them became really close. Then what I did caused the separation. So not being able to see their dad everyday was the hardest thing for them.


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## LongWalk

I PM'd tears to let her know of your update?

Is your husband passionate now?


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## 2asdf2

Felicidades.

Sigue como vás y todo acabará como diós manda.


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## Q tip

Hi, UAP

How are things going. We are thinking of you, always.


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## Q tip

UAP?


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Hey sorry I disappeared on you guys. I always tell myself I’m going to give you guys an update but I never seem to have the time. It’s crazy with everything going on between school, kids and my marriage. Over all my husband and I have been doing ok for the most part. We still have days where all he thinks about is the affair and has pretty bad triggers. I think the triggers are the hardest things for him almost anything can cause him to trigger. Usually when they happen he doesn’t want me around. I try my best to give him his space when it happens. But those days are happening less and less and they don’t last as long anymore. The biggest problem I’m having is he just doesn’t want talk about the affair anymore and isn’t really big on continuing go to MC but he still goes with me. Besides that I think everything is going really good. We actually just came back from a mini trip to Atlantic City we went for the weekend we got back on Monday. We both had a lot of fun. Our boys are doing great too both of them are a lot happier having us both around. We still have a lot of work to do but we’re getting there. Slowly but we’re getting there.


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## Cynthia

You have taken full responsibility for your actions and that you have done whatever you can to help your husband heal. These things are the reason why things continue to improve.


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## Mr Blunt

> By Un Amor
> Over all my husband and I have been doing ok for the most part.
> The biggest problem I’m having is he just doesn’t want talk about the affair anymore and isn’t really big on continuing go to MC but he still goes with me. Besides that I think everything is going really good.


For the first year that is good! He is back home and is going to MC so I see more positive than negative. There maybe some areas in your relationship that will not improve much but there can be a lot of other areas that you BOTH can gain a LOT in. *Are you both doing that?
*


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## G.J.

Thanks for the update
Treat him like gold and grow old together
Happy future for you both


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## Q tip

And you surely know to never place yourself in a situation like this ever again. Understand that when guys try to "friend" you as a danger. They did not make vows to your H. You did.


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## LongWalk

You're an inspiration.

Wonder how Tears is doing.


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## ConanHub

Good work woman! Love him without holding back for the rest of your life! Very happy for your second chance.&#55357;&#56842;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

Mr Blunt said:


> For the first year that is good! He is back home and is going to MC so I see more positive than negative. There maybe some areas in your relationship that will not improve much but there can be a lot of other areas that you BOTH can gain a LOT in. *Are you both doing that?
> *


Well we are trying to build a stronger relationship as a whole. They are certain aspects of our relationship that won’t ever be the same. I used before the affair we both had a good relationship I guess we both thought that. When we stared MC we stared to learn that our relationship wasn’t as great and we did have a lot of room for improvement in all areas. We both realized we did not nearly spend that much time together I mean really together as we really should. So that’s something we been working on that a lot lately just trying to reconnect. We both have some resentment on both sides we have to work through as well. I really want us to build a stronger relationship were we both can happy. Honesty I think we have a great shot at doing it.


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## Un_Amor_Perdido

LongWalk said:


> You're an inspiration.
> 
> Wonder how Tears is doing.



Thank but you guys are the really inspiration. I couldn’t have done this without you guys. I was ready to give up a few times and if it wasn’t for some of the poster on here I probably would have.


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## loveisforever

Un_Amor_Perdido said:


> Thank but you guys are the really inspiration. I couldn’t have done this without you guys. I was ready to give up a few times and if it wasn’t for some of the poster on here I probably would have.


I do wish you two have a stronger relationship after this. One thing what I wish not to happen is the possible hidden resentment on your husband side. Only time will tell.


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## MattMatt

Thank you for the update.

My best wishes for all of you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## seasalt

With an anniversary coming in the next few weeks you should be prepared for more triggers and perhaps address them before they happen.

He maybe isn't talking about what you did but for sure he thinks about it. Make sure he knows you haven't tried to forget about it for your own benefit. Him knowing that you know what you put at risk for no good reason will go a long way to making the month of March easier to handle for the both of you.

Just sayin',

Seasalt


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## Wolfman1968

Glad to hear that things are moving positively for you both.


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## Mr Blunt

> By Una Amor
> Well we are trying to build a stronger relationship as a whole. They are certain aspects of our relationship that won’t ever be the same. I used before the affair we both had a good relationship I guess we both thought that. When we stared MC we stared to learn that our relationship wasn’t as great and we did have a lot of room for improvement in all areas. We both realized we did not nearly spend that much time together I mean really together as we really should. So that’s something we been working on that a lot lately just trying to reconnect. We both have some resentment on both sides we have to work through as well. I really want us to build a stronger relationship were we both can happy. Honesty I think we have a great shot at doing it.


I am sure that you know that resentment is a real powerful relationship killer. I am glad that you know that you BOTH have resentments and that “There are certain aspects of our relationship that won’t ever be the same.” . You seem to be very level headed and understanding of the situation. I also think you have a “…great shot” at building a stronger relationship.

As you probably already know, communication, understanding, a plan to avoid things that cause resentment, and forgiveness are very important!


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