# Would you NOT marry someone who is religious?



## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

I often hear of religious singles being worried about finding someone who agrees with them on religious topics (Jews looking for other Jews, Muslims for other Muslims and so on). Some take it very seriously (likes most Muslims I know) while others (most Christians who maybe go to church a few times a year) don't.

But what about avoiding any religion because you don't believe? What level of religious practice would you tolerate in a spouse? Would going to church more than twice a year be too much or would you wait for someone who won't have sex outside marriage? 

I've heard horror stories of spouses "discovering" religion after marriage and then going kind of crazy (complete lifestyle change) followed usually by divorce.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I am Agnostic (almost Atheist) and would not be with a religious partner. It just doesn't fit with my life. Big no to waiting until marriage for sex but I might be ok with them going to church once a year as a tradition with their family. As long as their belief system was in line with mine.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

I'm ok with somebody who believes in a creator, or higher being.

I'm not ok with anyone with rigid rules that they must follow, especially anything dealing with women being secondary or inferior.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

I am Agnostic (almost Atheist) as well. Although I respect others who believe in a higher power, I find that they don't respect the fact I don't. So I'd prefer a partner who wasn't religious.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

I live with someone who thinks space aliens live amongst us and are here to make our lives all better for us by running our governments from behind the scenes.. 

Religious beliefs don't seem too much further off from that for me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dh and I grew up Catholic, but I told him I didn't want to raise our kids with religion. 

I don't really believe in religion. I believe in God, though. I think God is the spirit of Love in the world.

I could not have married someone who insisted I practice religion. He would have been free to do as he wished. I couldn't have gone for a fundamentalist because that would have been too contradictory to my liberal beliefs.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

The H & I are both Agnostic, almost Atheists, there is no way I could have married someone who is religious. It's like the difference of dogma and free thought. From my personal experience, people who label themselves as being religious, their religion is so fundamentally a part of who they are, they cannot separate religion from who they are.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

I wouldn't accept it outside a cultural level. If they were a true believer I wouldn't be compatible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I would marry someone who has strong moral standards. Where do you find a man who has strong moral standard? Probably someone who had a religious background. 

But if you are not applying what you have learned from your religion into your life, that means nothing. 

I wouldn't want to marry someone who is too religious. For example, if he will only eat his meal at a certain time because his religion tells him so, that's ridiculous to me. People who are too religious can be narrow minded too. If they think their religion is the best among all, then this person is arrogant, condescending, judgemental, and boring. 

Some people are lost because they don't have moral guidance. Some people are lost because they let "their god" control their life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I married a Christian woman And I was the farthest thing from religious at the time. I married her because I love her. I became a Christian About six or seven years into our relationship, My choice she didn't push me. 

She is still more religious than I am. Sometimes its a pain in the butt, However, Everything else is pretty darn good. There are definitely a lot worse things I can think of That could be going wrong with us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I'm married to a believer. I'm an atheist. I tolerate her belief, although she doesn't go to church at all. Her family prays before meals and I sit quietly and respect their tradition. I'd be ok if she wanted to go to church once in a while, so long as she didn't try to talk to me about it or ever use it as a basis for her position in an argument. 

If I'm ever single again, I can't really imagine considering a religious person seriously for any kind of long term relationship.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

When we met ....I was the Christian and for the most part my husband respected my beliefs (though he could have cared less)...he always went to church with me, to every function, if he was around, even the Bible studies...It's funny the Pastor called him up to the Alter to get "saved" one day feeling - He wanted to do that.. he just went along.. we did get baptized together and all of that..

It was a large part of my life at one time... we made wonderful friends throughout the yrs through our church..that we still have today....

I did loose my religion so many yrs ago... the truth is.. I was always a doubting Thomas anyway... getting the internet and reading about church history opened up my eyes to realize I was on the side of the Heretics... Now I call myself a "Deist"...at the very least a "free thinker".. 

Looking back , I'd have to say I enjoyed the fellowship more than "going there to serve God" anyway...since I was such a questioner the whole time...the music was great though...I found it moving at times....

Yet....I have thanked the Heavens above my husband was never religious.. just a decent Good Hearted man...cause Yeah...it would driven me half Crazy when I started liking some Porn.... I think we would have had massive fights over that if he wanted to condemn me .... so it's good.... now we watch it together...


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

greenpearl said:


> I would marry someone who has strong moral standards. Where do you find a man who has strong moral standard? Probably someone who had a religious background.


I think strong morals have less to do with religious background and more to do with the person.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

anonim said:


> *I think strong morals have less to do with religious background and more to do with the person.*


I think it has a tremendous amount to do with upbringing ... what we are taught...to be honest...even when it might hurt, get us in trouble... to treat others with respect, to keep our word, not damage others property, all that stuff that goes along with integrity..... religion is not necessary but I do believe* for some*... it does give inspiration and encouragement in their lives....

There are many who have no hope in this life..even if Faith / God/ isn't Real ....the Bible written by a bunch of fallible men trying to control society.... even if we reject some of it's tenants... Still I would argue...having the support of a church family CAN and does help * SOME people*...( I did not say all )... I've seen lives changed, due to the influence of others caring about them..and standing with them through their trails...'the fellowship of believers"... .

I often wish we could have this sort of set up without the stringent beliefs.. ..that so often divide ....but there doesn't seem to be that sort of thing alive in this world today.. we all seem to gravitate to one body of people or another...I do feel it matters who our friends are.

I find I have more in common with believers over the secular world but they would reject me too...so I am simply left as a "square peg trying to fit into a round hole"...and it sucks sometimes.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I would not marry or get into a serious relationship with a man that was religious, I could not respect him and his beliefs.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

I, too, am Agnostic (swear there ain't no heaven-pray their ain't no hell), and my W is as well. If I would have gotten married to a "religious" type, I'm sure her and I could have lived with each other...but what about the kids? How do you do that? I'm afraid that I wouldn't have an answer.

Incidentally, I've found that I'm suspicious of overly religious types (particularly bible-thumpers). They preach the good word of tolerance, but they are very intolerant of others who don't agree with them. I think that they preach tolerance...

...because they have much to tolerate in themselves.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

If my DH had needed a religion, I'd have not considered him evolved enough in his thinking to be compatible with me. That probably sounds terrible to someone who is religious, lol.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I wouldn't marry someone who was very religious. I'm much more compatible with a man who is an agnostic or atheist. One doesn't need a religious book to have morals. Morals come from empathy and kindness. True morality is doing good because you want to not because of divine reward or divine punishment.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

I am religious but would not marry a person who is too legalistic. I would rather marry an atheist.
I can not understand why some women marry religious men who do not believe in women's rights.
While homosexuality is nothing I would engage in I am happy that it is not punished in a cruel way. I am happy that people can choose to be atheist without having to fear persecution. I could not be with a man who does not believe in civil liberties for others - be it atheists, homosexuals or whoever.



> Morals come from empathy and kindness. True morality is doing good because you want to not because of divine reward or divine punishment.


I agree. Sometimes religion makes people nasty.



Steven Weinberg said:


> With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion


 or another ideology I'd like to add.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Religion and Atheism are different sides of the same coin.

There are devout , religious people who are inherently evil and intolerant towards anybody who they perceive as different to them in any way. The think their religious beliefs make them superior.

There are self proclaimed Atheist who are an empty , soulless void and hide their emptiness underneath a beautifully layered ,thin veneer of self righteousness . They think their beliefs make them intellectually superior to those who so much as wonder if there is a god.

The first set think that their god makes them superior.
The second set think that their intellect superior.

To me it doesn't matter what a person believes , what matters is _who_ that person really is , underneath all of those beliefs. 
If a person is intolerant of other people because of their beliefs, then bet your money that sooner rather than later , they become intolerant of something you do in that relationship and view you as inferior to them.

I will NOT marry an intolerant , bigoted woman , whether Atheist or Religious.
Show me a down to earth woman who loves life and genuinely loves people irregardless of religion and that is the woman I will marry and have been married to for the almost two decades.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

CM, I agree with your decision not to marry a bigot, as marriage is already a challenge, and we don't want to make it too impossibly hard on ourselves.

But what do we do about bigots? 

They are scared people, right? So how can we reassure them, in order to cure their bigotry?

No one wants to be left out. People who are left out are going to go to extremes. I think we need to find a way to include everyone.

How can we do this?


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

I am a Catholic but frankly, as a young man, was not concerned whether I married someone who was religious. The important thing was that she was the right woman for me.

As it happened, she was a Christian and joined the Catholic church before we got married.

It was a good, humbling experience for me to be told that she did not convert because of me. Her explanation was that she had met my uncle and wanted to follow his example. He was a Bishop and the most Christ-like, loving person I have ever had the good fortune to meet. A lot of other people converted as a result of meeting him. We could do with more Bishops like him.

However, I can see, looking back, that my wife becoming a Catholic simplified our lives as we did not have to reconcile any significant differences with our daughters' upbringing.

But everyone's experience is different to some degree.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jld said:


> CM, I agree with your decision not to marry a bigot, as marriage is already a challenge, and we don't want to make it too impossibly hard on ourselves.
> 
> But what do we do about bigots?
> 
> ...


We can help them by showing them how to love.

Our lives and our dealings mus be honest , pure motives and based in love and respect for all.

In our marriage,
My wife was from a Hindu background , she became a Christian and married me, a man who hasn't been inside a church in decades.
We still attend Hindu religious functions together and observe auspicious days and celebrate festivals with her family. 
It is a mark of respect.
I have Muslim acquaintances , I also attend and appreciate their functions when invited.
They are good people.

You can find good people in every walk of life whether religious , or atheists.

The bigots are the ones I fear.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Off topic, I know. But do religious people think it's better
for a person to say they believe in an afterlife when they don't 
than it would be to just say they don't believe or at the least are skeptical ?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I wouldn't marry a religious man.I want badly to believe I'll exist as myself somehow after death and get to be with my husband,my dogs,and my son for eternity in whatever place we create. 

But I can't make myself believe it. It would be such a challenge for me to be with someone who believes in the God that Catholics believe in with all their hearts.

I could be with someone who believes something out there created everything but if they try to further define it using any bible as their source of knowledge I would immediately shut down on them.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

hookares said:


> Off topic, I know. But do religious people think it's better
> for a person to say they believe in an afterlife when they don't
> than it would be to just say they don't believe or at the least are skeptical ?


I can't speak for all other religious people, but I don't believe it is better to say you believe when you don't. Presenting yourself as something you are not only causes more problems down the line. 

When I met my husband, he was Jewish. He chose to become a Christian... I didn't push him into it. But, had he been atheist, and had he been adamant that he wasn't going to change that belief, then no, we would not have married. I've seen more problems than I can count, from couples who were married, but had such vastly different views on religion.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Wow. I'm kind of relieved so many people are in my boat - agnostic, not quite atheist. It seems on dating sites under the question "What 5 things can you not live without?" that a LOT of men (and granted I'm in the bible belt) list God as the #1 answer. And a lot of men mention God as being important in their lives. I let these go to the wayside.

I am a good person. I have good morals and I didn't get them from religion. I have taught my daughter what I know about Christian holidays and let her decide as she grows more curious. And she was baptized, which was more of a ritual and consideration for my family. Ex and I were raised (loosely lol) in the same protestant denomination and my uncle baptized me so we had him come to ex's church to baptize our daughter in the baptism gown I wore. I know what it is supposed to mean, that i promised to bring her up in the church but really, it was a ritual that was special to my family and I was very happy to do that for them. It takes nothing from me to let them have that.

Same thing with praying. I bow my head - I don't actually pray but I'm happy to go with the flow. Believing doesn't hurt, I just find it impractical.

I did date a very religious man - very active in his church - and we discussed if it would be a problem. He didn't mind going to church alone; I didn't mind going with him on occasion and we were both fine with that.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

I am a Protestant (CofE) married for nearly 20 years to a Catholic so we have faced a few “issues” along the way.

Couples (or prospective couples) who have different belief structures do face additional hurdles to a successful long term relationship. That being said as long as they are both prepared to be open, honest and accepting there is no reason it can’t work.

IMHO you are guaranteed problems only when one or both is so ingrained in “dogma” that they have lost all compassion.

BTW I did not feel the need to limit my dating pool to only those with whom I shared religious, political and social beliefs with. As long as no one is trying to force their opinions onto another or is intolerant of others beliefs then that is OK with me.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

hookares said:


> Off topic, I know. But do religious people think it's better
> for a person to say they believe in an afterlife when they don't
> than it would be to just say they don't believe or at the least are skeptical ?


Personally I prefer people to be honest and open in their dealings with me. In return I give them the same respect. For example we have been to weddings / confirmations with my wife’s family but I do not take communion anymore than I would “swear allegiance to the flag” as I am neither Catholic nor American.

As long as people are polite and tolerant a true friendship can supersede other differences but surviving dishonesty is HARD.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Also agnostic. I can respect others beliefs so long as they respect mine. That said anyone who goes to church as a "get out of jail free card" for all the wrong they do during the week are not people I would associate with ever again.

Wolf


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Wiltshireman said:


> BTW I did not feel the need to limit my dating pool to only those with whom I shared religious, political and social beliefs with. As long as no one is trying to force their opinions onto another or is intolerant of others beliefs then that is OK with me.


:iagree:

What I've learned is that in life, there is always some legitimate reason we could dislike someone for.

Their religious beliefs.
Their political convictions.
Their socioeconomic background.
Their ethnicity.

And the list could go on and on.

However , don't we realize the same things we're intolerant about in other people , someone else is looking at us and disliking it?
I think respect goes a long way in understanding.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*Would you NOT marry someone who is religious?*

First of all, I probably would not get married at all.

LOL.

Second of all, I am not a religious person so it would not bother me if someone else wasn't.

With that said, I do believe.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> That said anyone who goes to church as a "get out of jail free card" for all the wrong they do during the week are not people I would associate with ever again.


That has always been one of the largest personal conflicts I have had with going to church in general. 

Every church I have visited has had way to many people I know of from around the community that are some of the worst offenders being holier than thou on Sunday and lying cheating crooked and dishonest scum the rest of the week.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I think there is a big difference between being "religious" and being "spiritual." I am Catholic, my SO is Protestant, but neither of us are overly "religious." We both have the same core beliefs, faith, but neither of us goes to church and we are both extremely open to expanding our knowledge of life, life after death, the universe, our origins, etc.

I could not be involved with a "Bible-beater" fundamentalist, if that's what you mean by religious.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Wow. I'm kind of relieved so many people are in my boat - agnostic, not quite atheist. It seems on dating sites under the question "What 5 things can you not live without?" that a LOT of men (and granted I'm in the bible belt) list God as the #1 answer. And a lot of men mention God as being important in their lives. I let these go to the wayside.
> 
> I am a good person. I have good morals and I didn't get them from religion. I have taught my daughter what I know about Christian holidays and let her decide as she grows more curious. And she was baptized, which was more of a ritual and consideration for my family. Ex and I were raised (loosely lol) in the same protestant denomination and my uncle baptized me so we had him come to ex's church to baptize our daughter in the baptism gown I wore. I know what it is supposed to mean, that i promised to bring her up in the church but really, it was a ritual that was special to my family and I was very happy to do that for them. It takes nothing from me to let them have that.
> 
> ...


God is the #1 answer? They just wanna get into a bible-thumpers pants!


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Yup, the usually put God first and kids second. Beer is third.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I think it makes life a lot easier when you marry someone with similar beliefs. 

My husband and I both share the same religious beliefs, which makes life easier for us in many aspects. I don't have to ask him to come along to church(not fun to go alone), ask him about how we'll raise our son in regards to religion, and so on. We have those same beliefs, even though he is a bit more "old school" in his thought process(I'm more of a "cafeteria Catholic"). 

I've dated guys who were atheist, Mormon, and other religions, and it was okay, but I doubt we would have ever worked long term. It creates more challenges that don't have to be there.


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

If I were ever to remarry, I would prefer a woman who is as religious as I am or a little less so. I grew up Catholic and go to church on Christmas and Easter, I believe in God, but I also believe that the gods of other religions are just as real. There is no way to prove they aren't and there is no way to prove they are. I'm ok with baptizing my children. Seeing as I will be divorcing my wife soon, I'm also ok with not marrying in the church if I'm not granted an annulment (hopefully this new Pope of ours will work towards changing this backwards stance the church has on divorce).

I would NEVER date or marry a fundamentalist or extremist - they are way too close-minded. I couldn't be with someone who actually believes that the only way to heaven (if there is such as place) is through belief in Jesus Christ - many people of other religions do a lot of good in the world so it's very difficult for me to believe that they would be relegated to hell because they didn't "accept Jesus Christ." I also loathe their stance on homosexuality - which is a biological tendency and not a choice (studies prove that a percentage of animals are homosexual, so it's not just a human thing). Finally, the idea of creationism is completely bizarre to me - we have proven the age of the universe, we have proven that life has been on Earth for roughly 3.5 billion years and we have proven that all animals, including humans, can be traced through a "family tree" to have certain ancestors in common. When the Catholic Church comes out an endorses evolution, you know that this theory has some strength to it. The idea that someone could be so close-minded as to believe that these aren't truths and that the Bible is the only truth is strange to me and not someone I would choose to spend my time with. So, no I would not be with someone who is religious to the point of fundamentalism or extremism.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

anonim said:


> I think strong morals have less to do with religious background and more to do with the person.


Agreed, some of the most religious people I personally know also have the lowest morals. Now, I'm fine with someone having low morals,  what gets me is when they use religion as an excuse for their intolerance and to "wipe away" the sin of their loose morals. Nope, not gonna buy it, to me going to church to absolve you of your sins is hypocrisy, instead live your life in a righteous manner everyday, without committing the sins in the first place. To me it's like a "Get out of Jail" card and that is just one of the many reasons why I don't go to church. It's not God who keeps me away, it's the people. (I know, not every religious person is this way, just my own experiences talked about here.)


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I've dated, and would have considered marrying someone who was mildly religious, as long as they were open-minded and tolerant and did not try to convert me to their beliefs. I can respect theirs. However, I found many agnostics, atheists, and Buddhists to date who had no deistic beliefs, so that worked out well and avoided any potential problems. (Likewise with other views and ideologies - it was easier to find someone who was similar than work with someone who was not.)


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

I would not be able to marry someone very religious. It's about needing to have similar core beliefs and world views.


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## bild-a-loco (Jan 22, 2014)

If I weren't already married, no, I wouldn't do it. Unfortunately, I'm one of the "horror stories" mentioned in the original post. Been married 20 years to a beautiful woman I dearly love and who has been wonderfully kinky most of those years.

Easter of 2013 she "got religion" on me, went all evangelical, and everything's been a train wreck ever since. Sex life is dead, relationship is in trouble, we're in counseling, everything's a mess. Glory hallelujah.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I am agnostic and had this experience. My wife converted 8 or 9 years into our marriage. She then got involved with a very conservative church. Families with lots of kids, homeschooling to keep the children away from the temptations in public school, even arranged marriages. Completely changed not only her lifestyle but her expectations of me as a husband. I grew up in the church and my family is quite devout but this was something entirely different. She started homeschooling and while I tentatively agreed at first, it didn't take long before I regretted that decision. She spent ALL her spare time at church functions, bible study, etc. I was definitely a widower with her being away most of the weekend and many weeknights. Every week at church there was a prayer request that I be saved. 

She has backed off from that quite a bit but what a nightmare.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

I ask because I live (and was raised) in the Northeast so most people here are Catholic but the vast majority barely get to church once a year, if at all.

However, I've noticed that many people who haven't been to church in 15 years and completely ignore the church *insist* on baptizing their children with no intention of actually raising them Catholic.

I can't stand fundies but this kind of blind cultural adherence to something you clearly don't believe in is frustrating.

I've known since I was a kid that I could never even date a fundamentalist but I've wrestled with marrying a person who is "religious" by culture. Though now baptism seems off putting to me too. I know my parents don't care about sex outside marriage, regular church attendance or even marrying another Catholic (I'm not one but don't tell them to make their lives less stressful) BUT would FLIP OUT if I didn't baptize my children.

It's bizarre.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My first H was that type of relaxed Catholic you describe...I was fine with it. I can appreciate rituals and beautiful architecture and enjoyed the few times we went to mass together or a Catholic wedding. Our marriage didn't work out, but religion wasn't the reason.

The only type I could not marry would be the type who thinks I am going to hell...no matter their religion or the reasons, if they felt this way about me (or anyone), I couldn't be with them.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

I would find someone with the same values as myself. 

Lots of things can change in a marriage that causes a divorce.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

No. Thank God I live in a country where I don't even have to explain that answer. Pun intended.

I mean, yes, I would not marry a person who is religious.

What is the question?????


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Mrs. JA and I met at church. She just moved to my area and visited the church we attended. My father was the pastor. So, both our families were ecstatic when we got together. My father ended up performing our marriage ceremony. In reality, her religion had nothing to do with me dating her, I thought she was pretty and I liked her


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Religious people are the most godly people on earth - for an hour a week. Most religious people I know, including Christians are extremely judgemental, puritan and narrow minded. 

I couldn't be with someone who was seriously religious, I can't stand being preached at. I respect their beliefs but I don't want to have them rammed down my throat.

I was raised Catholic but haven't been to church in years and I can't stand organised religion. Neither can my hubby.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I AM a Christian. I go to church once a week and pray every day and look for one REAL thing to thank God for even if it is just, "Thank you for my really old car for starting."

My wife now goes 3 times a week, is getting hyper conservative and it is really starting to bug me. 

My father ironically is in the same boat except its 4 days a week.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Phenix70 said:


> Agreed, some of the most religious people I personally know also have the lowest morals. Now, I'm fine with someone having low morals,  what gets me is when they use religion as an excuse for their intolerance and to "wipe away" the sin of their loose morals. Nope, not gonna buy it, to me going to church to absolve you of your sins is hypocrisy, instead live your life in a righteous manner everyday, without committing the sins in the first place. To me it's like a "Get out of Jail" card and that is just one of the many reasons why I don't go to church. It's not God who keeps me away, it's the people. (I know, not every religious person is this way, just my own experiences talked about here.)


My experience with christians has been very opposite of this... I have found some of the most loving within the church, very giving/ kind hearted people... I always felt lessor in comparison to how they lived... which bugged me at times... I could never say I left the church over hypocrites ....(sure every church has them but they also have the sincere in those pews too).... it was more doctrinal beliefs I just couldn't hang with.

I seen something similar to this in the past month though.... not sure how many would feel ...

A high school student...threatened to bomb the school, put it on Facebook , he was breaking windows out , stole a TV that night, same night we had a tire slashed on our truck even... (we'll never know who did it)....the police arrest him at a party...(this was his 3rd run in with the law ...this time he will be put away till age 18).... 

His Mother did a rant on her FB page (which a friend told me to go read)...to all who were judging her son...how he was such a good person, we don't know him...and to just mind your own business..... a line taken from it was "if that makes u feel good about yourself but we will rise above this* because God is on our side".*

Now I am not sure how others may feel about something like this.... but I would be wholly ASHAMED if my son did something like that ...I would be cringing inside and be so angry at HIM /furious ....bowing my head before the community asking for forgiveness... and to pray for US.. not telling others off with an attitude like that...

Her bringing God into it.. definitely sickened ME.....and it is things like this that do make Christians look like A-holes...I've never had friends like this... her daughters page is filled with swear words and she too was defending her brother with an iron sword like he did nothing wrong ! 

Am I being judgmental on this one...if your kid did something like that... would you rant how he is such a good person /" you don't know him so shut your pie hole"..... it's not like others aren't going to be concerned ....or talking about a Boy out of control like this, when our kids go to that school...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi, SA. I think it is hard for us humans to be honest with ourselves. We are naturally defensive, I think. 

If we can become secure, we can look at ourselves more honestly. And if we are honest, we can solve problems.

But many of us can't face truth. We are too fragile, and if we are forced to be honest before we are truly ready, we might just crack.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

frusdil said:


> Religious people are the most godly people on earth - for an hour a week. Most religious people I know, including Christians are extremely judgemental, puritan and narrow minded.


I am sorry this has been your experience.

If a Christian is judgemental then they are not being very Christian as Christ said 'judge not that ye be not judged'.

I have been more fortunate, have known many religious, Christian people (including people in religious orders) who have been very caring, kindly, tolerant people. My uncle, the Bishop, was as close to the loving, perfect man as one could ever reasonably hope to meet.

Last thing in the evening he would go out with another priest, tour the street near the Cathedral to see if they could find anyone sleeping rough and try to help them find shelter.

He said he could not sleep in his own bed until he had done this. He did this every evening until he fell terminally ill in his late 70s. 

But I know this has not been everyone's experience.


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I ask because I live (and was raised) in the Northeast so most people here are Catholic but the vast majority barely get to church once a year, if at all.
> 
> However, I've noticed that many people who haven't been to church in 15 years and completely ignore the church *insist* on baptizing their children with no intention of actually raising them Catholic.
> 
> ...


It is frustrating. I'm married to this type of Catholic. And I do tell him he is a hypocrite. 

He was raised in a household with a very religious mother, family attended church every Sunday growing up. So the pressure from his family to baptize our kids was immense. He is not a wave maker though and just wants to please everyone. In doing so, you end up pleasing no one. My MIL cried when she heard that I had no intention of baptizing our kids. 

My H is not a religious person though. I could not have married him if he were. He dislikes the church. He believes in something, but he's not sure exactly what that something is. I'm agnostic.

So following some of the church rituals is totally tied to his struggle with wanting to please his family. And I think many other new parents might be feeling that same pressure. 
I'm not a pleaser though, so I have no problem speaking my mind and saying no.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Since I am religious I married a woman who is also religious.

I think if you follow a religion honestly and with an open mind it can really help you have a very good marriage. 

Honestly, one big thing that I love about being religious is that people are not supposed to go and sleep around with whoever before marriage. I wasn't very religious when I was younger but I was never comfortable thinking that I would marry a woman who had 5 or 6 partners before me or vice versa. Religion treats relationships between men and women as sacred and our society right now does the exact opposite, which kinda makes my skin crawl.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

tryingtobebetter said:


> I am sorry this has been your experience.
> 
> If a Christian is judgemental then they are not being very Christian as Christ said 'judge not that ye be not judged'.
> 
> ...


I've had both experiences. 

My uncle is a deacon and is the sweetest man. He always puts others before himself and if anyone ever has a problem, they always go to him. The priest who married my husband and I is an amazing man and another priest I know brought me to tears from the love he showed during a difficult time. I also know many others like them and I look to them as examples. 

Unfortunately though, I've met many other "religious" people who are very judgmental, close minded, etc. I was in a 'religious' club while earning my degree and a number of people in that group were, in my opinion, horrible people. Many walked around with a "holier than thou" mentality that really bugged me. They couldn't see past what the book said, with everything being very black and white. I ended up leaving the group because I just didn't want to deal with them. I think it's sad that they call themselves Catholics, yet don't act like it in any way. 

There are the good and the bad of any group of people, religious or not. I know many nice atheists, but just as many judgmental and close-minded ones as well.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

tryingtobebetter said:


> *If a Christian is judgemental then they are not being very Christian as Christ said 'judge not that ye be not judged'.
> *


 I really liked your post TryingToBeBetter... 
The meaning of Hypocrite is laid out in these scriptures...



> *Judging Others*
> Luke 6: 41...
> 
> “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you...
> ...


But that doesn't mean man never judges... we judge every day, when we see injustice / the innocent suffer... this grieves us, we speak against it -sometimes vehemently (the world would be chaos & mayhem without this!)... when our children do wrong, we correct them ... we are repulsed and repelled by evil behaviors ...in this way...we must judge.. to restore order and justice for all... 

Yet because none are perfect, how we appreciate the mercy of others when we screw up...and hopefully care to make it right.










Earlier today, kids friends hanging out...we had an Atheist in the room, me (the Deist) and oldest son (the Christian).. we all pulled up a chair...mentioned this thread...and the judging aspect...

We had a nice conversation....we asked , we shared, we listened.... we laughed ...and still learned of each other... none showed a rigidness -attempting to verbally brow beat ..it was all good.

On the subject of Judging...the Atheist said all of us "stereotype" to some degree....it's human nature to do this no matter who we are, we see things from our own viewpoint... Son brought up Jung...and "*the Shadow"* that to deny we do not have a darker side is to deny the truth.... 

Very similar to what jld said in her last post...(your words so JUNG !) ..."I think it is hard for us humans to be honest with ourselves. We are naturally defensive, I think. If we can become secure, we can look at ourselves more honestly. And if we are honest, we can solve problems. But many of us can't face truth. We are too fragile, and if we are forced to be honest before we are truly ready, we might just crack."











No matter our 1st impressions >> for instance if I see a man with many tattoos...I immediately think Motorcycles, Drinker Bad boy / cigarette hanging out his mouth/ playing Pool .... Now I KNOW this is not always true...seriously but it's my 1st thoughts... I mentally reign that in...reminding myself .."it's just some INK"....and I lay that down... everyone before me is a empty slate -to get to know... 

Just as I am sure many, upon hearing someone goes to a Pentecostal church ....some envision "Fundamentalist WACKO...RUN for the hills!".... (just as another example)

I think at the end of the day, religion or none...we all want to marry someone with Integrity...


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

ntamph said:


> I ask because I live (and was raised) in the Northeast so most people here are Catholic but the vast majority barely get to church once a year, if at all.
> 
> However, I've noticed that many people who haven't been to church in 15 years and completely ignore the church *insist* on baptizing their children with no intention of actually raising them Catholic.
> 
> ...


I've noticed that too & I think it's because they're hedging their bets. That even if they are not practicing, they want to make sure their children at least are cleansed of the original sin. 

My MIL, raised a Catholic, baptized my SIL, but did not baptize my H, I've asked her why & she said it was "because I never got around to it." I asked her if she was not worried about seeing my H in the afterlife since she never baptized him. (I'm agnostic & I don't believe in an afterlife, but that does not mean I don't respect others beliefs.) Interestingly, she just laughs & flits away my question, as if she's too dumb to answer. It's really odd to me.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Having very strong libertarian leanings; I would have no problem with it as long as she wasn't trying to drive me in that direction or allowing it to dictate how our relationship works. Her belief system is her business not mine.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> ...anyone who goes to church as a "get out of jail free card" for all the wrong they do during the week are not people I would associate with ever again.
> 
> Wolf


reminded me of this:

“A Christian is a man who feels repentance on a Sunday 
For what he did on Saturday and is going to do on Monday.”


*NOTE:* I do NOT believe all members of <insert religious affiliation here> are like this, only the hypocritical ones!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

This is a very interesting discussion. My estranged husband was raised Catholic, converted to Presbyterian (go figure), then became an agnostic. Fine by me.

Although there is debate on the authenticity or correct wording of a Gandhi quote, I've read it goes something like this:

A missionary asked Gandhi why he frequently quoted Christ but was not a follower (as in Christian, I suppose). Gandhi responded, "Oh, I don't reject Christ. I love Christ. It's just that so many of your Christians are so unlike Christ."

Would I marry an atheist? No, but then I have absolutely, positively no intention of ever wading into the waters of matrimony again. And THAT is written in indelible ink in the book of my life.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> reminded me of this:
> 
> “A Christian is a man who feels repentance on a Sunday
> For what he did on Saturday and is going to do on Monday.”
> ...


Because some of the church rules are so very stringent... it's kinda hard to not come off as a hypocrite for just enjoying ones life though...

People could call me a Hypocrite....I'm gonna say I did the best I could...I tried to be a christian/ wanted to do the right thing....but I also wanted to enjoy my life... I loved Rock music (a sin to many believers)....singing "*Highway to Hell"*..."*Welcome to the Jungle*" at full blast ..burned a Guns & Roses CD once in the fire thinking I was honoring God.....but really...why did I even bother....seems silly, as I still turned those songs up singing my heart out when they came on the radio... It was hopeless... (also loved soap operas/infidelity rampant & R rated movies/ swearing)

And how B O R I N G life would be if you couldn't touch your Boyfriend and have some frisky pleasure.. I had no desire under the sun to be as pure as the driven snow..or marry at age 16 because we couldn't keep our hands off each other...that would have been pure torment -- might as well join the Convent...... so we played the fence... felt good about that.. heck I was even honest about it with people..I didn't care if they judged me... 

Because really...

I knew in my heart...regarding these things ...*That if we ENJOYED on Saturday, it was a LIE to ask for repentance on SUNDAY for what I knew damn well we'd be enjoying on Monday*... very true!!... 

Truth is... I was probably never a christian ....I just enjoyed the fellowship with nice people...I agree with much in the Bible, but not all... . I don't care for stringent rules ...but I agree with the *Golden rule* very much..(the Platinum sounds pretty good too)......

I just can't see the world in all Black and white... I am not a Moral Absolutest.... but a Moral Realist.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I think if you are truly a person of faith then it is such a significant part of who you are that for me as someone who is agnostic (not atheist), it would present a problem because it would be something we couldn't share. It isn't that I can't accept that someone has a different belief system than I do or that we couldn't share a similar moral code or standard but that our higher level purpose would dissimilar enough to create a disconnect that would cause problems in a long term relationship. Being a person of faith isn't a hobby. It isn't the same as ... I like golf and she doesn't.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

ntamph said:


> What level of religious practice would you tolerate in a spouse?


I have a pretty high level of tolerance, but would absolutely draw the line at high control groups.

It would be a nightmare to be married to, let's say a Jehovah's Witness, whose faith forbids blood transfusion even in emergencies.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Would I marry an atheist? No, but then I have absolutely, positively no intention of ever wading into the waters of matrimony again. And THAT is written in indelible ink in the book of my life.


That's an interesting position, since you seem to have been fine being married to an agnostic, but not an atheist, even though the functional difference between the two is almost nonexistent. 

I have noticed the lengths to which several in this thread have gone to clarify that they are agnostic, but not atheist, as if they fear to get tarred with a scarlet "A".


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

This has been a learning experience for me. I don't think I've seen so many non-religious people in my life. I guess if i only went by my environment and didn't have a computer and watch tv, I'd think everybody was religious. There are 54 churches listed in my rural community's Chamber of Commerce, and that's probably not all of them. 

I am very sorry that the religious people most of you have been around have set such a bad example that it helped shape your views against religion to the point that a religious person would be a deal breaker for marriage. Very sad.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

southbound said:


> This has been a learning experience for me. I don't think I've seen so many non-religious people in my life. I guess if i only went by my environment and didn't have a computer and watch tv, I'd think everybody was religious. There are 54 churches listed in my rural community's Chamber of Commerce, and that's probably not all of them.
> 
> I am very sorry that the religious people most of you have been around have set such a bad example that it helped shape your views against religion to the point that a religious person would be a deal breaker for marriage. Very sad.


IMHO it is not that the religious people they have meet set a bad example it is more that those religious people who try and "ram their views down other’s throats" give the rest of us a bad name.

"Extremists and Vellots" (be it religion or politics) are no fun to be with and unless you whole heartedly share their viewpoint then a LTR is near impossible.

N.B. for myself I could no more have dated a Communist or a Nazi than I could have dated a Religious Fundamentalist.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Cletus said:


> That's an interesting position, since you seem to have been fine being married to an agnostic, but not an atheist, even though the functional difference between the two is almost nonexistent.
> 
> I have noticed the lengths to which several in this thread have gone to clarify that they are agnostic, but not atheist, as if they fear to get tarred with a scarlet "A".


Maybe they have militant atheists in mind? The sort who go on and on about how they know there is no God? They would be really tiresome to live with, I think. I have come across a few.

Is it possible to be a militant agnostic? To go on and on about how you do not know if there is a God or not? I have not met any.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Cletus said:


> That's an interesting position, since you seem to have been fine being married to an agnostic, but not an atheist, *even though the functional difference between the two is almost nonexistent. *


There is also no functional difference between agnosticism and theism.

Atheism is about belief, or specifically what you don't believe. Just like theism is about belief in a god. 
Agnosticism is about knowledge, or more accurately, about what we don't know. An atheist doesn't believe in any gods. An agnostic doesn't know for sure if any gods exist or not, neither does he think that we can know for sure given that conclusive evidence is lacking either way.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

tryingtobebetter said:


> Maybe they have militant atheists in mind? The sort who go on and on about how they know there is no God? They would be really tiresome to live with, I think. I have come across a few.
> 
> Is it possible to be a militant agnostic? To go on and on about how you do not know if there is a God or not? I have not met any.


This is a good point. I don't have much use for Evangelicals of any stripe, and some atheists can be among the worst.

Believe in God, don't believe in God, it's all the same to me really. Just don't be a nuisance about it.

I'm not very religious, and those religious views I do hold would be considered to be pretty damn D) heretical to your average Baptist on the street, but my wife is very devout. Luckily for me, she's not a nuisance about it, and she's certainly, and absolutely, entitled to her views.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> There is also no functional difference between agnosticism and theism.
> 
> Atheism is about belief, or specifically what you don't believe. Just like theism is about belief in a god.
> Agnosticism is about knowledge, or more accurately, about what we don't know. An atheist doesn't believe in any gods. An agnostic doesn't know for sure if any gods exist or not, neither does he think that we can know for sure given that conclusive evidence is lacking either way.


Thanks, I'm well and truly versed in the definitions. Which is why I posed the question. Operationally, an atheist is no different from an agnostic until you get down to the underpinnings of his position.

An atheist is simply an agnostic who takes the lack of evidence as a contingent position for "no god", subject to revision should that proof ever become available.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I have noticed the lengths to which several in this thread have gone to clarify that they are agnostic, but not atheist, as if they fear to get tarred with a scarlet "A".


I am "agnatheist". 

This means that I believe sheep are divine beings.

To me the difference is that one is more acceptable to religious people. If you were to admit atheism, you'd get more people hassling you.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Even a fundamentalist Christian is 99.999% atheist. They reject and disbelieve in the many thousands of gods - except one. I disbelieve in all the same gods plus one more - it's a small difference, but significant!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> I am "agnatheist".
> 
> This means that I believe sheep are divine beings.
> 
> To me the difference is that one is more acceptable to religious people. If you were to admit atheism, you'd get more people hassling you.


No doubt. My brother in law moved to Mississippi to become an OB/GYN. He was an atheist at the time who had to feign religion to remain solvent. No one was going to do business with or give the time of day to a god hatin' atheist.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> Even a fundamentalist Christian is 99.999% atheist. They reject and disbelieve in the many thousands of gods - except one. I disbelieve in all the same gods plus one more - it's a small difference, but significant!




I read much the same thing in a Jack Reacher novel last week.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Married but Happy said:


> *Even a fundamentalist Christian is 99.999% atheist. They reject and disbelieve in the many thousands of gods - except one. I disbelieve in all the same gods plus one more - it's a small difference, but significant*!


Just like this quote...









One could say I am a little mixed up... my favorite debater is an Atheist (Christopher Hitchens, rest his soul), I sometimes go to a Christian church... our son is a Worship Leader....my husband looks upon the scriptures as God is on a "Power trip" and he wants us all to live like Paupers...so he doesn't have much care of it -as it makes him only feel guilty for living his life...

I am somewhere in the middle.. I want to believe there is a God who actually cares about his Creation, that something created this beautiful force of LOVE in this world...as I think we have all felt the kindness of a stranger...and the Power of such things...and that justice will be served -if not in this life, in the next.. 

But just because I would LIKE for THIS to be true, does not make it true -any more than Mormons feel they will be married in the next life or an Islamist will be met with 72 virgins..










I treasure having an open mind.. to take that away -I think I would become ill.....I would feel caged...


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


>


:lol: *LOL*


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm an atheist. Have no issue identifying myself that way. I don't believe in any supernatural gods.

And no, I wouldn't marry someone religious. Maybe agnostic. But not someone who believed in any god and/or practiced religion.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I definitely agree with you about the importance of keeping an open mind, SA. I am very suspicious of censorship.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Lyris said:


> I'm an atheist. Have no issue identifying myself that way. I don't believe in any supernatural gods.
> 
> And no, I wouldn't marry someone religious. Maybe agnostic. But not someone who believed in any god and/or practiced religion.


So (just as a point of clarity) you are saying that you would not marry anyone who does not agree with you about religion!

That sounds a little "hard line" or even "fundamentalist" to me.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Wiltshireman said:


> So (just as a point of clarity) you are saying that you would not marry anyone who does not agree with you about religion!
> 
> That sounds a little "hard line" or even "fundamentalist" to me.


:iagree:

And that's why I said that Atheist and Religious people are just different sides of the same coin.

Both can be very judgmental and intolerant of each other and people in general.

What matters is what a person is on the inside and not belief system they identify themselves with.

A lot of times some people use religion to hide their imperfections and present a persona to others, especially for social acceptance and validation.

A lot of times some people use Atheism to hide their imperfections and present a persona to others , especially for social acceptance and validation.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And that's why I said that Atheist and Religious people are just different sides of the same coin.
> 
> ...


I disagree! Both atheist and religious people can be pretty judgemental, but I never heard that an atheist blew himself up in order to kill as many religious people as possible. There have been no atheist crusades, no witches have been burned in the name of atheism.

Atheist may believe that they are intelectually superior but as a rule they do not wish to persecute believers.

Religious people were and still are persecuted under communism, but that was something different because communism and not atheism is to blame.

While I am religious I unfortunately have to say that religion makes some people really really crazy. Just one example: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ers-43-children-Nigerian-boarding-school.html - Islamist group named ‘Western Education is Forbidden’ slaughters 43 boys in Nigerian school after storming the building with guns, machetes and firebombs.
Haram has been translated wrong, it means "sinful", "forbidden from a religious point of view" as far as I know. Their motives have been religious.

Did you ever hear of something like this being done in the name of atheism?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I have noticed the lengths to which several in this thread have gone to clarify that they are agnostic, but not atheist, as if they fear to get tarred with a scarlet "A".


Some may see me as wish-washy - I just really hate to be all black and white. _Could_ there be a higher power? Possibly. There are things that are unexplained - even haunting and miracles and while there may be logical explanations sometimes, other times there aren't. I just hate to absolutely say there is NO higher power. There is a spiritual energy of sorts in things that I cannot explain so while I remain ignorant, I will just say "agnostic". 

When I was raised Christian, I was 99% sure it was mostly a load of crap written by humans to explain stuff they didn't understand and to control people and give them a reason to behave. If I were to say I was an Atheist, I would be a 99% Atheist with a little "just maybe..." thought mixed in. Therefore "mostly agnostic" seems to fit best. Never say "never" as the saying goes.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Cletus said:


> An atheist is simply an agnostic who takes the lack of evidence as a contingent position for "no god", subject to revision should that proof ever become available.


The question of what constitutes evidence of the existence of God is interesting. 

Some say there is no evidence of the existence of God.

Others say that everything you can see, feel, touch, smell, taste, experience, think, feel, is evidence of God.

So maybe it comes down to perception.

There is a saying: 'Some say there is no such thing as a miracle. Others see everything as a miracle.'


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wiltshireman said:


> So (just as a point of clarity) you are saying that you would not marry anyone who does not agree with you about religion!


Nor would I marry a man. Or a Fox News watching right wing conservative. Or a woman who was into heavy S&M. Religion is one of those topics that can make or break a marriage. One can find religious and non-religious people alike to be perfectly good human beings while understanding that living with them for the rest of your life is not a good idea.

But then, you know this. You're just trying to provoke a fight.



> That sounds a little "hard line" or even "fundamentalist" to me.


Then one presumes you selected your mate by lottery?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

tryingtobebetter said:


> There is a saying: 'Some say there is no such thing as a miracle. Others see everything as a miracle.'


Ignoring the tautological implications of that statement, I agree that plenty of people see the world that way. But that is not evidence in the way a scientist defines the term. 

So if the Judeo-Christian god wishes for me to believe in his existence, it is well within his powers to do so. Until then, I will continue to not multiply entities beyond necessity. 

I could be married to a religious person, but only to one who understood than evangelizing me would be unwelcome and harmful to our relationship.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Ignoring the tautological implications of that statement, I agree that plenty of people see the world that way. But that is not evidence in the way a scientist defines the term.


I agree that it is not scientific evidence but rather guess the theologians would say that is because these are not scientific matters.

Blake expressed what I guess you could call an artist's perception of these things:

To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

But I am rather diverging from the original question posed in the thread, for which my apologies.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *I definitely agree with you about the importance of keeping an open mind, SA. I am very suspicious of censorship*.


Yeah, I don't like censorship either... (Freedom of the Press/ free speech )...though there are some who hatefully willfully push the bounds of decency... 










Should Westboro Baptist Church be allowed to protest funerals as free speech? | Debate.org..


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## frootloop (Dec 20, 2010)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Some may see me as wish-washy - I just really hate to be all black and white. _Could_ there be a higher power? Possibly. There are things that are unexplained - even haunting and miracles and while there may be logical explanations sometimes, other times there aren't. I just hate to absolutely say there is NO higher power. There is a spiritual energy of sorts in things that I cannot explain so while I remain ignorant, I will just say "agnostic".
> 
> When I was raised Christian, I was 99% sure it was mostly a load of crap written by humans to explain stuff they didn't understand and to control people and give them a reason to behave. If I were to say I was an Atheist, I would be a 99% Atheist with a little "just maybe..." thought mixed in. Therefore "mostly agnostic" seems to fit best. Never say "never" as the saying goes.


I see what you're saying, but from my point of view, you are currently an atheist. Perhaps as some future point if and when new evidence arises, you might have to admit you were wrong. 

A theist is someone who currently believe in god(s) - atheists are everyone else that's left. Agnostic seems to me to almost be a different scale - i.e., something like "how sure do you feel about it?"

Personally, I'm an atheist, I tried dating a born-again christian briefly, and it didn't work out. It was difficult for either of us to accept the other's position as rational.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Nor would I marry a man. Or a Fox News watching right wing conservative. Or a woman who was into heavy S&M. Religion is one of those topics that can make or break a marriage. One can find religious and non-religious people alike to be perfectly good human beings while understanding that living with them for the rest of your life is not a good idea.
> 
> But then, you know this. You're just trying to provoke a fight.
> 
> ...


Cletus,

I am not trying to provoke a "fight" just stimulate informative polite debate.

By drawing a parallel between those who hold strong opinions on either side of any debate I hope it is possible for us to realize we all have more in common than we at first think.

As for your presumption that I selected my wife by lottery I have already stated in this thread that I would not have considered a LTR with anyone who had "Extreme" views be they religious or political but nor did I not look solely for a woman whose beliefs “matched” mine completely. (As you would aware if you had read my first post on this thread I am a Protestant married for nearly 20 years to a Catholic).


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

Wiltshireman said:


> Cletus,
> By drawing a parallel between those who hold strong opinions on either side of any debate I hope it is possible for us to realize we all have more in common than we at first think.


Wiltshireman,

like you I do not want to start a fight  but I whole heartily disagree with your opinion.
I am Christian but not too Biblebelieving. I believe in a benevolent God, I believe in mercy and I am also a "cultural Christian", who takes part in religious celebrations. I do however not believe that the Bible or any other religious book is God's word. I believe that this kind of thinking is dangerous!
I often sympatize with atheists.

I think I have nothing in common with those who kill their daughters or sisters because they dated an "infidel", stone women to dead for being the *victim* of a rape or burn witches.

I also have nothing in common with people who want to deny civil rights like voting to women. Those are not only Muslims by the way. Some fundie Christians hold the same opinion because the man is described as the head of the household.

Do you really feel you have muich in common with those people?

People, who, have sop much sympathy for that: where is your compassion for the women?


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

I am not from Great Britain but the more I learn about it the sure I am that the most extreme religious world views are pandered there... 

I think it was Churchill who said "Appeasement is like feeding a crocodile, hoping that it will eat you last".


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

I’ll Make Tea,

It is (IMHO) just fine to disagree with some of the views / ideas of your friends / family as long as no one tries to force their views on to the other.

There are many things that people with extreme views do in the name of their religion, politics or culture that I find abhorrent. (I would be hard to tell the atrocities ordered by Hitler from those ordered by Stalin.) 

Where individuals inflict harm and suffering onto others I think they should be called to answer for it and where I have the opportunity to take part in that process then I am grateful. I would certainly never try and defend or protect those who spread discord and hatred.

The point about looking for and finding similarities is to try and put differences into perspective.

A Muslim fundamentalist may believe in polygamy but them so might a fundamentalist Mormon, a “free love” hippy (if there are any left) would scorn the very idea of marriage but they are all capable of having loving companionate relationships with members of the opposite sex. There are both “good & bad” individuals within all belief systems and I hope I only judge people on their words and action as to do otherwise would be prejudice on my part. 

I do not believe that anyone is “born bad” more our personalities are formed by a combination of our circumstances our upbringing and our choices.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

I'll make tea said:


> I am not from Great Britain but the more I learn about it the sure I am that the most extreme religious world views are pandered there...
> 
> I think it was Churchill who said "Appeasement is like feeding a crocodile, hoping that it will eat you last".


As a biased Englishman I think that the people of Great Britain have a tradition of tolerance & understanding combined with a loathing of extremism. It is just a pity IHMO that governments (In the western world) are so afraid of offending anyone minority group that they fail to maintain true equality of opportunity.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I'll make tea said:


> I disagree! Both atheist and religious people can be pretty judgemental, but I never heard that an atheist blew himself up in order to kill as many religious people as possible. There have been no atheist crusades, no witches have been burned in the name of atheism.
> 
> Atheist may believe that they are intelectually superior but as a rule they do not wish to persecute believers.
> 
> ...


1) Kim Jong II , leader of North Korea - Atheist.
Responsible for the death of four million Koreans , two hindered and fifty thousand Koreans in concentration camps. Not to mention threatening the rest of the free world with extinction via nuclear warheads.

2) Benito Mussolini , former Italian Prime Minister - Atheist .
Creator of Fascism. His thirst for blood , using chemical weapons to invade Ethopia , unprovoked , his philosophy of killing " inferior races ." No need for explanation.

3) Jeffery Dahmer , notorious US serial killer . Self confessed , proud Atheist.
Dahmer killed seventeen men and boys , torturing them , raping them, dismembering them , having sex with their dead corpses .
In his own words , Dahmer said :
" _if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?_"

Dahmer was sentenced to 900 years in jail.

4) Jim Jones <---( surprise !) 

" _By the spring of 1976, Jones began openly admitting even to outsiders that he was an atheist._ "
~See, e.g., Jones, Jim in conversation with John Maher, "Transcript of Recovered FBI tape Q 622." Alternative Considerations of Jonestown and Peoples Temple. Jonestown Project: San Diego State University.] 

5) Mao Zedung leader of the Communist Revolution in China and father of Communist China - Atheist.
Responsible for the deaths of estimated twenty million people.
Famous for banning / burning the Quran and stamping out Islam in China.

I can list many , many more.
These men didn't kill in the name of Atheism , but they killed lots of people , right?

Is there really a difference between the lives of those killed by killers who were Atheist and the lives of those who were killed by religious fanatics?

Did the fact that they were Atheist make them mass murderers or were they mass murderers in spite of their non belief Ina god ?
Do you think that even if they were religious , they would have still been mass murderers?

Some men kill their wives in the name of love.
Some women kill their husbands in the name of love.
Does that make love a bad thing?

A murderer doesn't need a religion or atheism to kill.
They kill in spite of what they profess to believe because it is who they are.
They are broken.
It is part of the human condition.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Wiltshireman said:


> So (just as a point of clarity) you are saying that you would not marry anyone who does not agree with you about religion!
> 
> That sounds a little "hard line" or even "fundamentalist" to me.


I never claimed otherwise. I have no problem being a fundamental atheist.

I don't care what people believe. I worked for a Christian organisation. I have friends of many different religions. I love and respect all of them

But I don't marry them. I wouldn't choose to share my life with someone I disagreed with on such a fundamental level. It's too important to me and I think it would make living together and raising children unpleasant and very difficult.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Lyris said:


> I never claimed otherwise. I have no problem being a fundamental atheist.
> 
> I don't care what people believe. I worked for a Christian organisation. I have friends of many different religions. I love and respect all of them
> 
> But I don't marry them. I wouldn't choose to share my life with someone I disagreed with on such a fundamental level. It's too important to me and I think it would make living together and raising children unpleasant and very difficult.



Good for you.

You know what you want in partner and have expressed it clearly and politely, if everyone was as open, honest and understanding life would be so much simpler.


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## Marriedand40 (Aug 19, 2013)

I was born a cradle Catholic, Mom and Dad sent us to church every week no matter what. Hangovers during teen years didn't matter.

I baptized my kids and it was important to me to have them blessed in the house of the Lord. I respect people that aren't baptized, don't treat them any different.

The reason I believe in God is I still believe that someone created us. I mean how can we come from clay? I am not going to debate it with somebody but this is what I feel.

Also, all of the sightings of the Virgin Mary and as well as people's near death experiences with the white light. There was even an atheist who converted after a near death experience. (not sure his name)

Do the Atheists and Agnostic's actually believe that every sighting was made up for attention? Really? It's like UFO's to me. People who saw them, are they always "Weather Balloons" or Navy Rockets being shot into space? Really?

If people believe than that's fine and if they don't that's fine too. I don't preach to you, you don't preach to me.

It did keep me more grounded. If I didn't believe in Judgement Day I would have slept with alot more women that I have.

The staunch right-wing fundamentalists (Westboro Church etc.) have tarnished religion's reputation as well as the cover ups in the Catholic Church. Alot of priests are gay if you ask me. Maybe not practising but gay.

I don't believe everything the church says but I try to take the good from it. Love every one like your neighbour, etc. It is unrealistic for people who get married in their 20's to be virgins anymore but I do think sex should be within a relationship. I would be disappointed if my sons had a lot of one night stands with strange girls. I would rather have them committed in a monogamous relationship.

I dated an atheist girl when I was younger but I am not sure if I would have married her, it never got that serious. She was the best lover I have ever had for sure.

This is just my opinion. I am sure some agree with me and some don't.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Marriedand40 said:


> I don't preach to you, you don't preach to me.


That was a pretty good sermon for a non-preacher.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

"Would you NOT marry someone who is religious?"

I don't like the word 'religious' because that could mean any god. I would NOT have married an atheist or any other persuasion except Christian. I consider myself to be a backsliding Christian who needs to do better. Sadly it's probably the reason there is so much hate for Christians in this world - we (Christians) need to do better.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> I consider myself to be a backsliding Christian who needs to do better.


If we are honest most of us (people in general) needs to do better. Regardless of Race, Religion or Creed

“Mankind needs to find its Humanity.”


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Wiltshireman said:


> If we are honest most of us (people in general) needs to do better. Regardless of Race, Religion or Creed
> 
> “Mankind needs to find its Humanity.”


Response deleted because what's the point.


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