# Attentionless and sexless marriage



## JST (Oct 24, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum and have recently just stumbled across this site by luck after searching online for marriage support groups. I have read a few threads and only hope I can find the answers to what is tearing my marriage apart.

Let me start by saying that in no means am I a needy person or co depended on my wife to carry me through life. I'm a confident middle aged man that loves his wife more then life it self, we have 3 beautiful daughters together ranging from 6 years of age to 2 months old. We started having problems about 3-4 years ago after our 2nd daughter was born, her sex drive became non exsiting, I have a great deal of patiences and put up with it for almost 2 years without complaining, after that I started to become frustrated and bitter toward her all the time wondering why this is happening, our closeness and bond we once had is all but dried up. I have talked to her on many occasions and tried to find out what the problem is so we can address it and fix it, I get the "I dont know what it is" answer all the time. We dont make time for each other, we dont go out together and we dont have any intimacy in our life. I've express my concerns many many of times only to have my feelings and frustration regarded as Bi Polar. I find my wife to be very attractive, sexy and desirable in everyway even after having 3 kids, its very hard for me to deal with the fact that I cant touch her or anything and when she is in my site all I want to do is grab her and love her like a couple should. My anger and frustration has gotten to a point where we do not talk any more and I find myself leaving quite often. 

My question is am I being unreasonable and expecting to much from her. I mean all i ask for is to make some time for us once a week so we can have us time with out the kids around or any outside interference and rekindle the flame that once was 8 years ago. My life should be perfect right now with a stable and great career, a small but beautiful home right on a lake, 3 beautiful kids, 2 dogs and my health but yet I feel so empty with the emotional connection with my wife. I never refuse to do things for her and always try to help as much as I can with household chores to ease the stress on her. She rejects me and denys me any sort of intimacy with her unless she wants it (which is very few and far between) if I initiate anything I get turned down. 

How do I cope with my frustration and hurt when my partner refuses to understand my feelings. Any all help suggestions welcomed, my marriage is just hanging by a thread and wont last much longer.

Sincerely 
Me


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Welcome JST. 

Start here. - 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Read that. All is not lost. A lot of men on this forum have or are experiencing what you are talking about. You are not being unreasonable. You are not expecting too much. Coping with the frustration is one of the hardest things especially if it's been going on for years. Leaving quite often is usual. She has no interest in dealing with what she considers to be your issue. She is not respecting your needs but expects you to respect hers as she controls the cookies in the cookie jar. On the other hand you feel like you're doing all you can to work on the problem? Could be you're doing all the wrong things. I was for sure. 

Have you asked your wife to go to Marriage Counseling ( MC ) with you?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

JST,

I think your problem starts right here:

"we have 3 beautiful daughters together ranging from 6 years of age to 2 months old"

As a father of 3 (now 21, 19 and 14) I know that this is a very busy time in life for your wife. I assume she's a SAHM? 

What support do you lend her around the home when you're not working? Who gets up in the middle of the night with the baby? Is your wife on birth control? how is her self image after having 3 kids?

While I understand your frustration level and agree that it needs to be worked on, you also need to understand where she's coming from


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

Seems this is a pretty common theme. Exact same thing happened to me when we had our kids. She hyper-focused on the children and let our relationship suffer. I wish I had the magic answer for you but all you can do is keep trying. Try and get her to go to counseling with you. Try and make her understand how serious this is. Because it is very serious.

Good luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

JST,
These are all inferences based on your post:

Sexual attraction was a very big factor in your choice of her for a mate, than in her choice of you. 

She desired the financial stability to:
- Have the children she very much wanted while
- Being able to be a stay at home wife and
- Enjoy a friendship with a nice guy partner who would make a good co-parent and come home from a long work day and still do more than his share of the housework

In the first 2 years her desire was driven by:
- The novelty of a relationship with someone who could afford nice things
- The newness of things which always layers a glow on a partner
- The subconscious driver that all this sex was creating the bond that would lead to a great life for her

The first child gave her a break from sex and she made a mental note that you were ok with the "new baby" overwhelmed mom thing to some degree. 

The second child became the basis for mostly ending the sexual relationship. When you simply waited for it to get better while she made up excuses, she came to believe you were ok with it even though you didn't like it. 

At that point the main way to convey you really were not ok with it was to be very deliberate about your use of birth control like condoms. Or a vasectomy. Having a third child conveyed that you were accepting that the new norm - was ok. 

You may have done other things to reinforce that you were ok with it. 

You two made sure that your unhappiness did not adversely impact her comfort level in a meaningful way. 

You two thereby filled the home with a powerful subtext. Her needs matter. Your needs don't. This erodes respect, which erodes one of her primary desire drivers. 

If when you two disagree it is mostly your responsibility to make things, that reinforces the theme of who is more important. 

Doing more baby/house work than is fair given your work schedule is yet one more contributor to this theme. It will lessen her desire, not increase it. 

Did you ever meet any of her prior boy friends? Were they kind of bad boy types?



JST said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am new to this forum and have recently just stumbled across this site by luck after searching online for marriage support groups. I have read a few threads and only hope I can find the answers to what is tearing my marriage apart.
> 
> ...


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

JST said:


> ...her sex drive became non exsiting, I have a great deal of patiences and put up with it for almost 2 years without complaining


Problem #1... you didn't complain so your wife viewed that as acceptance. Why should she change when you gave "approval" to the sexless marriage?

[/QUOTE], after that I started to become frustrated and bitter toward her all the time wondering why this is happening, our closeness and bond we once had is all but dried up. I have talked to her on many occasions and tried to find out what the problem is so we can address it and fix it, I get the "I dont know what it is" answer all the time. We dont make time for each other, we dont go out together and we dont have any intimacy in our life.[/QUOTE]

You aren't going to get laid without making time for each other, going out or non-sexual intimacy. BUT... you're not going to do any of those things unless you get sex, right?

I think you need to tell her that you expect an intimate, fulfilling sexual relationship as part of the marriage in order for the marriage to work and you're willing to do your part by providing the time for each other (non-sexual), the non-sexual intimacy and dates. Tell her you are doing these things to rekindle the closeness between the two of you.

If she isn't interested, then you can read MMSL or do the 180 but many times the answer is right there in front of you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Going forward, she needs to have consequences for her actions. Or inactions. This business of you bending over backwards so that she doesn't have to feel any consequence when she treats you badly has got to end.


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## JST (Oct 24, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your input, I would like to start by saying my wife ( not technically, common law for 8 years) is one of the most caring persons you wil ever meet and would bend over backwards to help you out, now having said that this implicates the outside world and not the inner circle world (our family of 5) my wife is an excellent mom and would die for our girls, she is beautiful and very attractive (in my eyes) but she is hard on herself because of the little bit of extra baby weight. I compliment her and tell her how beautiful she really is and there is no need to feel bad about herself because in a nut shell I'm not any better> I mean I'm 6'2 at 195 lbs and could stand to hit the gym some more but that will come soon. I usually leave for work around 6 am and get home around 6 pm, once at home I start by helping out with the kids, I take the 2 oldest off her hands and play with them for hours (2 girls are in full day school) so she has about 6 hrs in a day with just the newborn, I help around the house by cleaning, doing laundry, taking the dogs out for walks, looking after my girls + doing 1-2 hrs of paper work to complete my day, if there is still enough time I offer her massages to help reveal the tension from the day, she's very accepting when it comes to that. as far as who gets up in the middle of the night, I try to do my best when it comes to that understanding that my job has a very high responsibility level and I need to be focused. I usually get up at 330 am and stay up from that point on, after the 3 am feeding is done I get ready for work and off I go. She is a stay at home mom by choice, I have a career that gives her that option. Its not so much the sex anymore as it is just spending quality time together, her parent come up to visit up every so often and try to give up our time but she would perfer to spend it with them instead of taking advantage of the situation and doing something for us. I have on many occasions spontaneously just surprised her with going out and cooking dinner or giving her the massages that she loves. I have bent over back wards for her only to be neglected time in time out. I left on saturday night to give her some space and my self because she bailed on me again, her parents came up and we were suppose to do something together that afternoon, I worked in the morning, came home at noon only to find out that shes going out to the movies with them and the girls, I was invited but didnt go but I was floored on how she bailed on us again. 

I hate this feeling so much and just cant for the life of me figure out why she doesnt understand my feeling. Its not like we are fighting about me wanting to buy something expensive or having no money etc. this is about a partners emotional needs and she down plays it. what to do oh what to do


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## JST (Oct 24, 2012)

So she got a new hair doo today, something she never really cared about before, do I compliment her on it or do I just ignore it? She likes to ignore my feelings right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You spend close to 100 percent of your effort trying to get your wife's approval. 

Women hate being around approval seeking males. Your wife feels so suffocated by your neediness that she is now actively avoiding the possibility of alone time with you. 

You talk about how wonderful she is. I bet you would be utterly stunned if you listened in on her conversations with her friends.

Is middle aged code for - much older than my wife?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Toffer said:


> JST,
> 
> I think your problem starts right here:
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## JST (Oct 24, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> You spend close to 100 percent of your effort trying to get your wife's approval.
> 
> Women hate being around approval seeking males. Your wife feels so suffocated by your neediness that she is now actively avoiding the possibility of alone time with you.
> 
> ...


I dont know where i said anything about spending 100% of my efforts trying to get my wifes approval, by no means am i a needie person and can manage just fine alone if I had too. I give my wife lots of space and make every effort to make sure I am not suffocating her in any way possible, sometime when we are to much around eachother I will tell her to go visit her family or I will take off for a night with friends, everyone needs space sometimes to refresh. What Im not in acceptence with is how i have been taken right off the radar scope for anything now a days. I work hard, support my family, I have dedicated my life to my kids so that when they get older they will have a proper start to life, I have made my sacrifies as a husband/partner why cant she. Its very unfair to commit to someone and have kids with them then change and seperate themselves from you. I didnt abandon her, she did it to me.


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## Michael A. Brown (Oct 16, 2012)

Try to talk to her and explain your side. I'm sure she will gonna understand it.


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## JST (Oct 24, 2012)

Michael A. Brown said:


> Try to talk to her and explain your side. I'm sure she will gonna understand it.


Thanks Michael, but I have tried that on many many occasions, the heart to heart talk, the stern talk, the mean talk and finally the agrumental talk but nothing seems to phase her. I can handle the fact that she is not in the mood for sex right now and whatever sex there is is pity sex but what i cant handle is how everyone else and everything else is more important then us, she cant make time in her so called busy day for us to have an intellectual conversation or to go out for dinner or just be romantic but she sure as hell finds the time for friends / family and even trying to help others in their relationships. Do you understand how it feels to she her put lots of effort into other people but nothing into us, thats a kick in the nutts to me. People say that I should understand her a bit more and the busy days that she has, well let me tell you something, shes a stay home mom with only a newborn to deal with for 6 hrs of the day, our other 2 girls are in school ful time so she has the house to her self, she doesnt cook but she will clean, she spends 2-3 hrs on that damn facebook everyday trying to solve other peoples problems and refuses to acknowledge ours, I work hard so that she has the option of raising our kids and not missing out on things that I may not be around for. I come home and continue to fulfill my duties as a partner/ husband by looking after the girls / clean/ and talking care of our finacial obligations. All i ever ask for is if we can start making time for each other and not head down the wrong track. Her reply to that is I'm Bi Polar and get angry way to fast. Well its been 4 years now of expressing myself so its about time i start showing frustration. I sometimes express myself on social networks just trying to find answer and its a kick to the chops when her friend tell her I'm looking for pity from the world, sad to pon off emotional feels on pity to the world. I think I have almost made my mind up about the outcome of our relationship.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

JST,

Before you throw the whole thing away, why don't you ask her what SHE wants?

While I'm pretty sure that you won't get the answers that you want, it will be the opening you two need to discuss the future.

After you hear the bad answers from her, you can segway into the talk about seperation and child support. That may very well jolt her to think about what she really wants


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## BookOfJob (Jul 6, 2012)

JST said:


> ...... shes a stay home mom with only a newborn to deal with for 6 hrs of the day, our other 2 girls are in school full time so she has the house to her self, she doesnt cook but she will clean, she spends 2-3 hrs on that damn facebook everyday ......


This above.

I *really think* that your wife is not doing enough her share (mine was like that too). I think the saying in this forum is like this, when a woman isn't doing (or compelled to do) her female duties, her "wifey engine" shuts down. She could turn into a walk away wife, or have an affair and dump you. Really a big red flag and you're now in a pretty good shape since you may be able to catch this early.

You do show nice guy traits. What do you think of the "man up" link above? Have you read it?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

People find the time to do the things that are important to them.

My wife is the same way, started after the birth of number 1. Our relationship is no longer a priority.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Toffer said:


> JST,
> 
> I think your problem starts right here:
> 
> ...


I partially agree with this. 

I had the same issue starting after the birth of our first child. My wife had no desire for sex or intimacy and "could live the rest of her life without it." Very frustrating. To really get down to it, you need to understand what is happening _within_ your wife. I read a great book that helped me to understand women called the "The Female Brain" written by a lady doctor.

Women are driven by hormones in thier body and that has direct control on their emotions and feelings. Starts just after they are born until menopause. In a nutshell right now, when she is spending time with your children, it releases hormones into her system that are very similar to the hormones released when you have sex. So in essence, when she is bonding with your baby, especially if she breast feeds, she is getting the same rush as if she was having sex with you. Hormonally she is satisfied, therefore the decreased need for sex.

A lot of women are also constantly analyzing and working things through their mind. Taking care of the kids, the house, bills, keeping up a good appearance of marriage, maintaining friends, ect. They get so burdened down with all this stuff going through their head, they let some stuff less important stuff fall through the cracks. You are always there and dependable, therefore they don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. That equates to less time devoted to you and the relationship.

Unfortunately you cannot control the hormones at all, that is nature at work. 

You can affect what is going on in her head. This is where some of the books suggested can be of assistance. Learn how to affect where she channels her energy, preferably towards you.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The particular book referenced below contains a lot of male bashing and asserts a set of facts that are total fabrications. The author has been outed for her pseudo science by a number of reviewers.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jst, 
In your initial posts:
- I will do anything she asks 
- I leave for work 6 am - home 6 pm at which point I take care of the older kids and help out for many hours 

If it was me I would stop at the gym on the way home. And arrive just in time to read a good night story or play with the older kids for a half hour. 

After that I would go do my own thing. 

When your wife asks you to do more, be friendly but decline. Put it back on her with a smile: I am sure that you can handle that yourself sometime in the next few days. 

She has been neglecting and you have been chasing. She is perfectly ok with you being angry at her. Stop showing anger. 

When you do this, she is going to get angry at you. She may threaten you with a divorce much faster than you expect. 

You opened this with 'I love my wife more than life itself'. I knew what was coming after that. Most guys in that mode get terribly taken advantage of. 

Your wife is polite and friendly to you. But what are the substantive efforts she makes to put you and your needs first? 

My guess is that when you talk about this, you spend a lot of time on how unhappy you are and she says as little as possible. 

You did all this helpful stuff to be nice. But she perceived it as weakness and lost respect. You may think you have had some hard/tough conversations with her. But to her those are just you being needy and angry and if she ignores you, you go right back to work and to parenting the older kids while she does nothing different. 

For the moment accept the truth of your situation:
- your wife doesn't respect you
- she is actively avoiding sex with you

The recovery of your marriage is entirely based on one thing. Can you tolerate her overt anger, and let her walk away if she has a strong negative reaction to being deprioritized? 

If as the tension rises you keep showing her your weak underside - it is all over. 

If you say: I love you more than life itself
- she hears - he is sort of ok with being treated like dirt


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> I think I have almost made my mind up about the outcome of our relationship


This brings you to the important place where you are COMMITTED to make a change and pursue what you know your marriage can be. If you are willing to put it all on the line and have enough faith to live with the consequences, everything is possible. 

Keep reading...it is all here. MEM has this and is pointing you in the right direction. She's got you, she'll always have you. Nothing she asks is more than you can accept. That's too easy. You need some tension...a bit of mystery...a show of masculine strength...and a re-allocation of pursuit.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

J, 
one thing I can say with 100 percent certainty. 

It is unwise and unfair to discuss your marital woes or make major decisions while in nicotine withdrawal.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ignore nicotine comment wrong thread my mistake.


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## JST (Oct 24, 2012)

Alright guys I have to be straight up and honest if I want to receieve the proper guidence to repart my marriage/ commonlaw relationship. I know I have been saying a lot of negatives about my partner and how she neglects me and so on, easy to spill the beans about the wrong she has done but not so ease to admitt the wrongs I have made. Its a very frustrating time right now in my life as this same problem has been with us for about 5-6 years now, the anger I have built up over the course has been horrible, I have made some pretty bad decision with regards to how I feel, human emotions are a very powerful thing and sometime lead you in the wrong direction, I have total control over the out come of how I deal with it but I do not have control over my inter emotions, they are natural and with us to stay. I have become violent with my reactions and have grabbed her on many occasions , I have never punched her nor pushed her down but I have grabbed her arm out of frustration and I'm tried of doing that. The last time that happened I made a sole promise to myself never to lay a finger on her again. 6 years of trying to express myself on how I feel, 6 years of dedicating my time and efforts into this relationship to make it work but yet we still havent grown up enough to come to grips with our faults, I blame her, she blames me and the story goes on. The past year has been really bad, we got pregnant in Janurary, she miscarried (our2nd) feb. with twins, one was lost the other survived, the surviving twin was delievered pre mature at 29 weeks, it was a long struggle for 3 months, at the time I never left my wife side up until the last month when everything was about her and our newborn and she completely disowned the whole family. Our precious lil baby emma is now home and has been for past 7 weeks and the same continues, I feel very over whelmed with hate but yet at the same time I love her with all my heart. We make absolutely no time for each other even though she hers it from so many people thats its important to do so. last night was the first time her and I went on a date to the movies, her parents looked after the kids and we went out. Its was fun and all but I had to hold most of the conversation, the movie itself was funny and made her laugh and talk abit more but once aloan it was quiet on her behalf. I want to make a sole commitment to honestly try this time to salvage what we have and do the adult mature thing instead of the highschool drama crap. Any and all advice is completely welcomed as this is our last attempted to saving our relationship. 

Might I add that she says one thing to me but talks differently to her friends and I have 100% proof of that. She will tell me that she is willing to try counseling and work on the areas that need be addressed but tells her friends that she see's nothing changing and that she needs to start things about different plans, how is one to accept that with out her knowing I know.

Thanks guys


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jst, 
There is nothing surprising in your post. 

If you understand a little bit of what we have posted - answer this question. Why is your wife so quiet around you? 

I already know a few reasons - but it doesn't matter what I know. What do you understand about the current situation?


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

A woman needs to feel SECURE in her relationship and to implicitly TRUST her man. These may be at the very top of her list of needs.

See if this link is thought provoking:

How to Be a Man


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

If I had suffered through a miscarriage, given birth to a very premature infant and recently brought that infant home I wouldn't want to leave her side. Not for an instant. Certainly not to go to the movies.

Look, your relationship is obviously in all kinds of trouble, but I don't think now, two months after the premature birth of a baby, is the time to be trying to fix it, or to be making any kind of big decision.

Just get through the first twelve months and then see where you are. 

Best wishes to your baby. I hope all is well with her.


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

JST, you and me seem to be in a very similar situation. I've just recently starting trying to address it. It sucks, I know buddy.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

JST said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am new to this forum and have recently just stumbled across this site by luck after searching online for marriage support groups. I have read a few threads and only hope I can find the answers to what is tearing my marriage apart.
> 
> ...



You sound like a "Mr Nice Guy". Have you ever considered reading No Mr Nice Guy? That book is an eye opener!


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I agree with the posters that have said the baby is very young and you need to give it time.

It is bad for your marriage to be a pushover it is not bad for your marraige to be compassionate and understanding. I often tell people to leave sexless marraiges but that's not exactly what's going on here. A two month old premature baby is very very young. 
I personally did not leave my babies to go to the movies untill 6 months plus. And I highly value intimate connection and sexual connection. But after the birth of a baby there is a period of adjusment. I also doubt that your wife is getting g any real time to herself every say. Often when they are that age it's hard to even get a shower. 

I disagree that you are doing too much. Do not make her resent you and see you as a jerk. 

Give it 6 months a d then revisit the issue. In no way fo I advocate staying in a sexless marraige but this isn't exactly the case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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