# Pulling the plug on this marriage



## jerry123

Hi friends...

Well I'm meeting with a few lawyers next week to see what my options and rights are. Been a SAHD for almost 10 years while my wife was able to move up the corporate ladder. This past week has opened my eyes to the type of person she is. Unloving, uncaring, manipulative person. Big fight on Sunday after a party we attended where she basically treated me like crap in front of everyone. I stood up for my self and actually embarrassed her. 

Got home and all heck broke loose. Silent treatment for 5 days until last night when I told her I have no more desire to be in this marriage. She blame shifted everything to me. She cried. Says I am not a man if I abandon her. Says she won't sign anything. Said she will make up stories about me like child sex abuse. 

Also said I won't get anything from divorce. But I did my homework and came out with facts which pretty much shut her down. She tried to keep a strong attitude like she don't care. But then the tears came. I stayed strong and gave her reasons why it's just not working out. She can't communicate with me, no empathy what so ever. No respect for me at all. How can someone be so cold hearted. 

Married 17 years with two kids 6-12. Tons of equity in house and we have $55,000 in equity fund and she has $100,000 in her 401k. She makes $200,000+ per year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

well Jerry while you never did find out if she cheated at least you can divorce knowing you tried and can move on to a better life

be strong


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## Gabriel

Make up stories about sex abuse? What?

Other than that, her reaction seems pretty "normal", or at least what I would expect.

I wonder if her tears are over losing you or over what people will think, or, what it means for her going forward.

Do you feel the tears were geniune?

Jerry, you do need to ask yourself one question. If your W gets desparate and starts to completely change as a result of this, will you keep her? It's okay if you would. That was the point, wasn't it?


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## tom67

Sorry to hear that Jerry I'm glad you stuck up for yourself. Keep the VAR on you but you know this. You tried and she didn't basically. Get a good lawyer and good luck.


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## Acabado

Gabriel said:


> Make up stories about sex abuse? What?


Hope you carry a VAR with you everywhere from now on. She's an entitled, bully woman, the tears will dry very soon, specially as she sees you going forward with the divorce, the financial repercusions...
VAr, huge stack of batteries.

Sorry friend, I saw it coming.
Peace.


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## happyman64

I too was going to add that you need to keep a VAR on you.

Her telling you she will make false allegations just verifies to you where her head is.

Sad to see it go this way in any marriage.

Good Luck and keep us posted.

HM64


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## tom67

Keep conversations about what you are doing regarding the d to a minimum now, any talk with her should be about the kids. If you go through with this she will be paying you alimony plus child support but you'll find out for sure next week.


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## Shaggy

So sorry that its come to this. Keep the var on you at all times!


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## Shaggy

Wanted to add, she's used to being the one in control and setting the game plan. The little bits of independence by you that she has tolerated have only been when she feels like letting you be the boss during sex.

You finally standing up for yourself is going to really shake her up, and she will be desperate to regain control. Be wary of her because the more she fails to curb you the more desperate she will get, and desperate people can do stupid and nasty things.


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## tom67

Shaggy said:


> Wanted to add, she's used to being the one in control and setting the game plan. The little bits of independence by you that she has tolerated have only been when she feels like letting you be the boss during sex.
> 
> You finally standing up for yourself is going to really shake her up, and she will be desperate to regain control. Be wary of her because the more she fails to curb you the more desperate she will get, and desperate people can do stupid and nasty things.


Maybe a VAR in her car to get a jump on her plans.


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## jh52

Was just thinking about you and your situtaion. You tried to get her to go to IC, MC -- you told her numerous times.

I think your wife doesn't know how to love -- per her parents being her role models.

That's not saying she is right on treating you like sh!t all the time in front of people.

You were like a pressure cooker -- and last week at the party -- you finally had enough.

Take care of yourself and kids.

One last thing -- you drew a line in the sand for divorce. Now you have to follow through, otherwise she will never change. Just becuase you start the divorce -- doesn't mean anything till the papers are signed. You have to show her you mean business -- your sick of getting walked on -- it's time for her to change -- or be a single mom with 2 kids.


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## jerry123

I have been using the var and pen recorder for a long time. Nothing coming up. But have noticed her looking at men and her trying to get attention from them many times. 

The tears were genuine. I think mostly from the impact of kids and how they will take it. 

I've done my share of trying to make this work. She made fun of me going to IC. 

She even admitted to me that her upbringing has turned her into an uncaring person but has no desire to change.


And yes, she knows I have an appt to see lawyer next week. I will follow through. She is not used to me standing up for myself. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

the VAR is to keep on yourself for whenever you have contact with her
if she's threatening to make false accusations, the VAR can help prove she is lying


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## jerry123

Gabriel said:


> Make up stories about sex abuse? What?
> 
> Other than that, her reaction seems pretty "normal", or at least what I would expect.
> 
> I wonder if her tears are over losing you or over what people will think, or, what it means for her going forward.
> 
> Do you feel the tears were geniune?
> 
> Jerry, you do need to ask yourself one question. If your W gets desparate and starts to completely change as a result of this, will you keep her? It's okay if you would. That was the point, wasn't it?



Well actions speak louder than words at this point. She will have to show me a lot for me to stay. But to do that, she will be giving up control and that will be very hard for her to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Almostrecovered said:


> the VAR is to keep on yourself for whenever you have contact with her
> if she's threatening to make false accusations, the VAR can help prove she is lying


You backed her into a corner now be careful no yelling cold and calm. Go out with friends this weekend just get out of the house you're p!ssed and you should be. Eh I would buy 2 or 3 more VARs the good sony brand that RDMU used with lithium batteries and stick them in strategic places around the house jmo. You can't be too careful right now.


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## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> I have been using the var and pen recorder for a long time. Nothing coming up. But have noticed her looking at men and her trying to get attention from them many times.
> 
> The tears were genuine. I think mostly from the impact of kids and how they will take it.
> 
> I've done my share of trying to make this work. She made fun of me going to IC.
> 
> She even admitted to me that her upbringing has turned her into an uncaring person but has no desire to change.
> 
> 
> And yes, she knows I have an appt to see lawyer next week. I will follow through. She is not used to me standing up for myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





> She made fun of me going to IC


. Was this in front of your friends???



> She even admitted to me that her upbringing has turned her into an uncaring person but has no desire to change.


Can you spell narcissistic? If she does not want to work on herself then she is virutally pushing you out of the relationship.

And her checking out OM in front of you is actually what she wants you to see her doing.....

Keep moving forward and do not settle for a crappy wife/life/marriage.

HM64


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## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> . Was this in front of your friends???
> 
> 
> 
> Can you spell narcissistic? If she does not want to work on herself then she is virutally pushing you out of the relationship.
> 
> And her checking out OM in front of you is actually what she wants you to see her doing.....
> 
> Keep moving forward and do not settle for a crappy wife/life/marriage.
> 
> HM64



Oh no, not in front of anyone. 

Narcassitic to the core...even mentioned that last night but she laughed that off. 


I told her how cold she is toward me. No affection, used to just give pecks on cheek. Said how married couples are not that way. She then said well show me one couple that does give affection all the time. I said all happily married couples I assume.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

tom67 said:


> You backed her into a corner now be careful no yelling cold and calm. Go out with friends this weekend just get out of the house you're p!ssed and you should be. Eh I would buy 2 or 3 more VARs the good sony brand that RDMU used with lithium batteries and stick them in strategic places around the house jmo. You can't be too careful right now.


Yeah, coaching my daughters softball team then golfing. 

Damn, just to think in the past I was worried to tell her I'm going golfing or out with friends. She would get all pissy and cop an attitude. Feels good now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

What actually happened at the party ?

I am surprised that she cried and was scared about losing you


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## Acabado

jerry123 said:


> I've done my share of trying to make this work. She made fun of me going to IC.
> She even admitted to me that her upbringing has turned her into an uncaring person but *has no desire to change*.


Here you have. The key points. If she's just fine under her own skin after admiting she's wrong... what else is there?
Its your closure.
The way she uses to disrespect you in front of others is old news, it's no wonder you just had enough.
Carry that VAr for selfprotection, taylor the 180 to ride the D process; NC except dayly necessities, kids, finances... you can even avoid the last piece and let it to the lawyer.


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## jerry123

warlock07 said:


> What actually happened at the party ?
> 
> I am surprised that she cried and was scared about losing you



Complained how her burger was too well done and I should have told the guy to cook it medium rare. So it was my fault...i handed a girl a drink before handing wife one, bittched at me about that. 

We were playing a card game guys against girls. (Setback) The girls started winning so she had to start whoo whoo at me and point her finger in my face. One of guys grabbed a salt shaker and said just add this to the wound. So she put some salt on her hand and looked like she was going to blow it on me so I put my hand up and hit hers then salt went all over her. Everyone laughed. She got pissed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

Acabado said:


> Here you have. The key points. If she's just fine under her own skin after admiting she's wrong... what else is there?
> Its your closure.
> The way she uses to disrespect you in front of others is old news, it's no wonder you just had enough.
> Carry that VAr for selfprotection, taylor the 180 to ride the D process; NC except dayly necessities, kids, finances... you can even avoid the last piece and let it to the lawyer.


Yes, been doing 180 for a few days. Pretty easy at this point. 

She told me not to take any money out of her account for bills. We both have joint checking account in both names so her account is basically mine. I do have a bank account just in my name she knows nothing about. I have about $1,500 in cash stashed away. 

She says she will pay bills and is trying to leave me with no money. Attorney fees most likely will have to be paid by her if I did my research correct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

wait a second, you didn't tell us your wife was 8 years old!


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## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> wait a second, you didn't tell us your wife was 8 years old!


Ha,ha...yeah I think my daughter is more mature than the wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

jerry123 said:


> Yes, been doing 180 for a few days. Pretty easy at this point.
> 
> She told me not to take any money out of her account for bills. We both have joint checking account in both names so her account is basically mine. I do have a bank account just in my name she knows nothing about. I have about $1,500 in cash stashed away.
> 
> She says she will pay bills and is trying to leave me with no money. Attorney fees most likely will have to be paid by her if I did my research correct.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take some more out before she cleans it out.


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## iheartlife

Just writing to second the motion to make sure and document, document, document. For her to threaten to possibly get you to lose custody of your daughters, or even get arrested for a crime--that is pretty low but also very serious. On the one hand, she might have been trying to scare or hurt you, and nothing more; on the other hand, in light of how cold she has consistently been, maybe it's a threat she will try to carry out.

Remember, call the police first if arguments get out of hand. Stay calm and emotionally detached. Keep your hands to yourself, etc., don't give her any opening to try to claim abuse. She just told you she's going to take the girls away after you've been the primary caregiver for a very long time--she realizes herself what it would take to accomplish that.


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## Acabado

jerry123 said:


> She told me not to take any money out of her account for bills. We both have joint checking account in both names so her account is basically mine. I do have a bank account just in my name she knows nothing about. I have about $1,500 in cash stashed away.
> She says she will pay bills and *is trying to leave me with no money.* Attorney fees most likely will have to be paid by her if I did my research correct.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's good good for the goose good for the gander.
I say get a shark, no prisoners, female ugly lawyer and nail her to the wall. Stop telling her your plans, play dumb, act as if you are cooling down, backing off once again, let her get her usual false sense of power and control.
Plan ahead and go fo the yugular. And do it quickly.


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## jerry123

Acabado said:


> What's good good for the goose good for the gander.
> I say get a shark, no prisoners, female ugly lawyer and nail her to the wall. Stop telling her your plans, play dumb, act as if you are cooling down, backing off once again, let her get her usual false sense of power and control.
> Plan ahead and go fo the yugular. And do it quickly.



Yeah, i showed no emotion and I was direct. I have full access to all her accounts so I can see what she does. 

She will be pissed to pay alimony. It will be interesting to see if she called any attorneys today. Actually, come to think of it I really don't care if she did. I have 3 lined up next week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

She left you no choice she said she was not going to change.


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## Gabriel

jerry123 said:


> Yeah, i showed no emotion and I was direct. I have full access to all her accounts so I can see what she does.
> 
> She will be pissed to pay alimony. It will be interesting to see if she called any attorneys today. Actually, come to think of it I really don't care if she did. I have 3 lined up next week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She might succeed in not leaving you any cash money in the bank, but guess what, with you being a SAHD and her making $200K+/year, she is going to pay you SERIOUS alimony. Like, you could get $75K/year or something. No "unwillingness" will stop it. It will be court ordered. You may want to slow down your job search until you get your divorce.

What works for the geese, works for ganders too. Stay-at-home moms get lots of money in divorce cases, why wouldn't you?

I am so glad you are divorcing this woman. She is such a B.


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## tom67

Gabriel said:


> She might succeed in not leaving you any cash money in the bank, but guess what, with you being a SAHD and her making $200K+/year, she is going to pay you SERIOUS alimony. Like, you could get $75K/year or something. No "unwillingness" will stop it. It will be court ordered. You may want to slow down your job search until you get your divorce.
> 
> What works for the geese, works for ganders too. Stay-at-home moms get lots of money in divorce cases, why wouldn't you?
> 
> I am so glad you are divorcing this woman. She is such a B.


True she will end up paying for your attorney.


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## jerry123

Well, she just hit me 30 minutes ago. She was slamming doors and I went up to tell her to calm down and she went crazy on me screaming and yelling. I was very calm. She tells me she will make this horrible for me and slammed both her hands on my chest. I told her if she hits me again I will call cops. She says I'm a man and should take it. I said I'm a man for not hitting her back.

She says she will tell kids that it was me who wanted this and blame it on me. She also says there is no way she will sign any papers or sell the house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

jerry123 said:


> Well, she just hit me 30 minutes ago. She was slamming doors and I went up to tell her to calm down and she went crazy on me screaming and yelling. I was very calm. She tells me she will make this horrible for me and slammed both her hands on my chest. I told her if she hits me again I will call cops. She says I'm a man and should take it. I said I'm a man for not hitting her back.


That's what the VAR was for!!!
Document, everything. Date/hour/event.
I woulnd't wait to see a lawyer like yesterday.


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## tom67

jerry123 said:


> Well, she just hit me 30 minutes ago. She was slamming doors and I went up to tell her to calm down and she went crazy on me screaming and yelling. I was very calm. She tells me she will make this horrible for me and slammed both her hands on my chest. I told her if she hits me again I will call cops. She says I'm a man and should take it. I said I'm a man for not hitting her back.
> 
> She says she will tell kids that it was me who wanted this and blame it on me. She also says there is no way she will sign any papers or sell the house.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell her it doesn't matter when a judge signs an order to sell the house, what a biotch.


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## Shaggy

That is why you carry the VAR on you, when she pulls stuff like that you clearly say what she did like a narrator so it's on the recording,


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## Thor

Jerry, thanks for the update.

Everything from now on is in the bright lights of a courtroom. Don't give her any ammunition to use against you.

VAR VAR VAR 24/7. You don't want to take a ride to the jail in handcuffs when she lies that you hit her. You don't want to be booked for child sex abuse. That sh1t really truly is on your permanent record now with computerized arrest records.

Similarly, be strategic with money and assets. Ask yourself how your actions might look to a judge. For example the secret account you have. You have to disclose it whenever your lawyer asks for a list of accounts you two have.

Ask your lawyer about this, but I think you would be smart to take half of all cash in all of the accounts and move it to an account in just your name. But you cannot make it secret. You are simply safeguarding it. This would be your war chest to fund your lawyer and any new expenses (maybe an apartment if you are forced to move out). On the other hand, if your stbxw takes all the cash and hides it, she will have to pony up 50% of it in the settlement somehow. It will be accounted for, so you don't have to fear never getting it if you don't take it today.

Get copies of all the financials asap. Download as much history from every account you can. Stash copies in a safe place, like on a thumb drive in a new safe deposit box in your name, or on a data DVD given to a very trusted friend. This way you can prove what the joint assets are as of today in case she tries to hide a bunch of it.


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## Gabriel

Jerry, just lawyer up - use your joint money to pay for it. And let the attorney take care of things.

Don't talk to her anymore except for logistics with your children. Stay calm and don't let her get to you. Her words don't carry a lot of weight. She's used to getting her way, but attorneys have a way of setting it straight. She will eventually calm down.

You may want to talk to your family and hers to let them know what is happening, or else she may spin inaccurate stories.

At least you know now just how right you are in this decision.


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## iheartlife

Jerry, I'm very concerned she's going to falsely claim abuse against you. On this forum there are at least 2 or 3 members, and likely several more, who had to spend the night in jail (or the weekend if arrested on a Friday evening) because their wife falsely accused them of abuse. In one case, the H was trying to shut a door of a bedroom to get away from his wife, he yanked the handle and she fell down--it's that simple. 

You truly need to be prepared to call the cops FIRST--that is who gets believed most of the time, whether it's morally right, or not. She will twist this and lie about it--and this isn't theoretical--she's already told you that she would do it.

The only way she is getting primary custody now is by lying. The only way.

As you can also see, she's using a common tactic of trying to get an emotional reaction out of you, trying to provoke something. You need to exercise control over your emotions. Never raise your voice. Avoid arguing with her--what's the point? But never give her any opening.

Sorry I haven't read your thread all the way through again, I assume someone already directed you here:
Divorce Information for Men and Fathers | Cordell and Cordell | DadsDivorce.com


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## happyman64

Jeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyy

You out there my friend???

Just let us know that you are ok and your wife has calmed down.

HM64


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## warlock07

How are you jerry?


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## jerry123

Hi everyone...

Just taking the week to process all the info I got from lawyers. I'd be looking good if I went D route. Being a SAHD for so long and her huge salary would be no difference like if roles were reversed. They look at what is best for kids. I take care of all the kid stuff. I coach my daughters softball, I take my daughter to dance. I am fully involved in both kids school activity. 

My wife knows this, she knows I spoke to attorney. But I did not let her know what was discussed. She is a totally different person these past few days. She has not laid a hand on me. I am in control and show independence. She is not used to that. 

Had a 2 hour talk with her the other night and it gave me an insight to why she acts like she does. She tells me it has to do with her up bringing. She also says the way she acted at party was because of how things were going there and it was just thrown together. 

She has serious issues when it comes to things. She thinks everyone should be like her. She knows things have to change in her attitude. I don't expect an overnight switch in her but I do expect her to realize her actions and failure to fix these things will result in a divorce. 

I can sit there and talk about all things wrong in this marriage till I'm blue in the face. The fact is she needs to change on her own and more importantly want to change. 


Her hitting me was a result of me not backing down and taking the control away from her. I was calm and she was the one losing control. 

I know for a fact being a SAHD is part of the reason she is how she is. She does have the time to do the things I do with the kids since she works. She probably resents me in that aspect and feels the pressure of being the breadwinner. I get that but still it gives her no right to disrespect me at home or in front of people. In the past I would not make waves but now I am a totally different person and call her out on those things. 

Hey I'm no saint either, as a defensive measure I most likely were treating her like **** just to show her how it feels. Instead I need to stand up for myself and show control of the situation. No yelling or screaming by me. 

I read the MMSG blog and there are countless stories of working men who are going through the same crap I am. It seems the answer is to keep up the MAP which shows confidence and attractiveness. In my case it takes harder work being a SAHD. 

One of the solutions to the work thing is something I've been thinking of for a while. To buy an established business and take classes this fall. We have the money to do this and I've already stated my intentions with my wife. 

So all in all I am in wait and see mode. She is sorry for the hitting part and promised never to do that again. She is sorry for the way she acted at party. Tells me to pull her aside if she does anything like that again. Realizes the things she said the other night were in anger. Is willing to change but actions speak louder than words in my book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Well at least she has some realization with her issues. If she agrees to ic you guys have a chance. She is on your timetable now.


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## caladan

tom67 said:


> Well at least she has some realization with her issues. If she agrees to ic you guys have a chance. She is on your timetable now.


Yeah, she appears willing to change. I must admit feeling some.... empathy for her.


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## LongWalk

Hi Jerry,

You switched threads, so I never knew you had taken this step. I just happened to be curious about what happened to you, and discovered you hadn't left TAM. 

There were so many things that screamed affair. The urinary tract infections pills, for example. And all the strange behavior. For example:



jerry123 said:


> Yes, I have a lot to figure out. Just so strange for her to put phone in drawer knowing I would be home soon waiting for her to be in sexy underwear. I was about 10-15 minutes late since session went over and I could tell by timeline of VAR and her constantly checking her phone for text and slipping it back in drawer. BTW, she was attached to phone today, all day!!! And it was supposed to be a day off....way to many red flags. The only path I have is BB spy software.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Didn't the neighbor says that your wife looked good for woman who didn't workout or some shı† like that?

Pushing for divorce without firm proof of infidelity was a tough step to take. Ultimately, she burned herself, though, since she destroyed your trust.

I can't remember how old you guys are but I guess in your early 40s. Her reproductive life span is now in rapid decline. Machiavelli would have explained her cheating in terms of biology. She itched for strange because that is the limbic brain driving the agenda of her life.

But now when you reject her, intuitively she knows her chances of finding another good mate are limited. Hence, her violent behavior. That was the same part of her brain in action.

There was a period in your old thread when you felt like you have reconnected but now it seems that she was not really committed and you felt that she was being insincere. Now you seem to be going back and forth again, leaving open the possibility of R. Obviously this your decision.

I wonder if you wouldn't feel more comfortable making decision if she came clean about the cheating? If she came up with a timeline, detailing how many times she was with the neighbor and maybe there could have others, would you then feel better about her. Would it restore some balance if you got her to meet your neighbor's wife and apologize to her for cheating with her husband? (I must admit I can't remember if he was married).

Failing to get some resolution, won't you always have this feeling of being burned eating away at you? If you get her to confess, you'll have the power to forgive, otherwise how will feel when you're 60?

Are there more industrial jobs available now? You're a tool and die maker, right?


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## Gabriel

LongWalk said:


> Hi Jerry,
> 
> You switched threads, so I never knew you had taken this step. I just happened to be curious about what happened to you, and discovered you hadn't left TAM.
> 
> There were so many things that screamed affair. The urinary tract infections pills, for example. And all the strange behavior. For example:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't the neighbor says that your wife looked good for woman who didn't workout or some shı† like that?
> 
> Pushing for divorce without firm proof of infidelity was a tough step to take. Ultimately, she burned herself, though, since she destroyed your trust.
> 
> I can't remember how old you guys are but I guess in your early 40s. Her reproductive life span is now in rapid decline. Machiavelli would have explained her cheating in terms of biology. She itched for strange because that is the limbic brain driving the agenda of her life.
> 
> But now when you reject her, intuitively she knows her chances of finding another good mate are limited. Hence, her violent behavior. That was the same part of her brain in action.
> 
> There was a period in your old thread when you felt like you have reconnected but now it seems that she was not really committed and you felt that she was being insincere. Now you seem to be going back and forth again, leaving open the possibility of R. Obviously this your decision.
> 
> I wonder if you wouldn't feel more comfortable making decision if she came clean about the cheating? If she came up with a timeline, detailing how many times she was with the neighbor and maybe there could have others, would you then feel better about her. Would it restore some balance if you got her to meet your neighbor's wife and apologize to her for cheating with her husband? (I must admit I can't remember if he was married).
> 
> Failing to get some resolution, won't you always have this feeling of being burned eating away at you? If you get her to confess, you'll have the power to forgive, otherwise how will feel when you're 60?
> 
> Are there more industrial jobs available now? You're a tool and die maker, right?


Longwalk, you are an awesome poster, but I disagree with the tree you are barking up here. You are very new to this forum - Jerrys' story goes way back.

This isn't about infidelity anymore. Hasn't been for awhile. This is about her as a human being, and her ability to love and respect her husband.

She has shown to be a cold, biting, attention-craving, power-hungry narcissist. Jerry has stood up to her, and isn't taking her sh*t anymore. His desire to bring up D is due to her attitude and treatment of him, not from the infidelity suspicions. Jerry has found absolutely no proof, despite extensive VAR use.

She lashed back immediately, but when she realized Jerry wasn't the old overly-beta Jerry and was serious, she began to fall back. This was the only way Jerry was going to make any headway with her. He scared her. She's very smart. She probably has figured out what will happen to her financially if they D.

Jerry, if you want to get a job, do that for your own self worth. But don't do it for her, or to get respect from her. If I were you, given this new situation you are in, I would hold off and see if your wife can really respect you for YOU, first. Then if you feel you've gotten over the hump you can start finding a job. Otherwise, if she fails and can't respect you or act better, or show you a lot of love (not sex, but LOVE), then you are better off going for D and not getting a job, because getting a job will hurt you in the D process.


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## LongWalk

Hi Gabriel,

I agree that at the end of the day marriage is about two people both feeling respected and valued. Jerry made his decision based on his how his wife treated him.

If I remember correctly, and this is an irony, his wife makes over 200,000 dollars annually because she has an HR job in a major insurance company. She reviews the CVs of actuaries, although she herself is not an actuary, to make hiring decsions. She is not even a computer person. Jerry knows more about Windows that she does. So what is her talent?

To put it another way, she is grading people, mostly men, who are good at math. Maybe Jerry can tell us more about her function. Is it her job to detect lies in CVs? Is she interviewing them in person? Is her job to raise the pay offer to bring in the most talented.

I gather that her skills and experience have gotten her used to measuring the balls and brains of men. She is proud of her abilities. She must be used to attention. People want to work for this company and she is an executive who figures out what makes people tick. Isn't this a very alpha job? Interesting that she is female.

Is part of the point that partly she is even allowed to employ her female limbic brain to say some potential employee is not right or is worth extra?

One hazard of her profession is that she makes "gut" decisions about a big event people's lives. She is used to being hard. Jerry has, I am afraid, been on the receiving end.

Jerry is a tool and die guy. Once it was a masculine profession. The tool and die guy has skill that would have made a good hunter in the prehistory stage of human development. He is guy who would have been good making weapons and setting traps. He would have known where to set fires to drive the animals, etc. But his profession has been computerized and exported.

There is probably still money to be made even in his state but he needs to be master of CAD/CAM which has taken over eye hand coordination. Jerry thought about his prospects but still deemed them poor.

If I remember correctly, he considered real estate and healthcare as alternative positions. I don't think those will up his alpha ranking. I don't remember if Jerry read books about upping his sex ranking, but he certain was aware that by going back to work he would be changing the dynamic.

I suspect that if you go back and read the old thread, you will still think his wife was cheating. Jerry picked up on a lot of circumstantial evidence. That is still a major factor in his disenchantment.

I am sure he will comment.

Has she reached the age that she desires sex more? Is that a frustration now in her life? If Jerry cannot be the man to satisfy her, why is that?

re: the wealth they accumulated (including her future earnings)
That is for sure a major part of her thinking and disrespect. Somewhere she accuses Jerry of just considering her a good paycheck.


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## Gabriel

Longwalk, that all makes sense, but there is one thing I need to address. 

Why do you think actuaries are men? There are about as many female actuaries and male ones. So she is hiring and evaluating both sexes pretty equally. The actual job of an actuary is not alpha, but the pay is quite good, and most actuaries are very competitive people, and both of those are alpha qualities. So she's recruiting and dealing with folks that are typically very smart, competitive, and make good money. This could exacerbate the problem with Jerry's SAHD status.

Trust my knowledge on this. Jerry's wife may have even recruited me at one point....


One thing that amazes me is that she still makes this kind of money doing that. She must be doing more than just hiring and evaluating actuaries. The economy just flat out won't support someone doing a $200K+ job of just that. VERY few recruiters make that kind of money in this field. Since she is an internal recruiter of some sort, she must have other staffing functions, etc.

I do think her job has shaped who she is, for the most part. She's an alpha dog with a SAHD husband. It's a major reason for their problems. I am one of the people that has been convinced that she hasn't had a full on affair. Because of her confidence and position in her marriage, she has played the game a little bit. Frankly, I see her kind of like a guy who flirted a little too much with a couple of people. Played with them a little bit. Loved the response. Likes to talk smack about young hot recruits. (remember the VAR result?) Grab assin' and the like. Bravado. Almost chauvanistic. But I don't think she's actually physically cheated, or had a real EA. Maybe some inappropriate stuff, but nothing of significance.

My 2 cents.


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## LongWalk

Hi Gab,

I was aware that it might sound sexist to assume that actuaries are mostly men. My guess was the majority are, but you picked up on the central point anyway, the dynamics of what she is doing has lifted her ego. She has become adept at reading people in a certain way. That is something that comes with professions. Police read things, journalists, lawyers, and so on. They all capture some truths about human character but risk losing some perspective.

I think TAM, in the short time I have been here, has taught me a great deal. I can see that some posters have both exceptional insight but also the ability to hold off on judgment. Wiserforit, for example. 

I admire Machiavelli's intellectual grasp of the psychology of reproductive behavior. But he doesn't spend time getting into situations but rather goes in surgically.

You may be right about Jerry's wife, maybe she did not cheat, but the hairs on Jerry's neck went up and he was no insecure guy. His wife cut off sex and flirted with other men.

Let's see what he says about it today.


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## jerry123

I have read through post but have a ton of manly things to do today. Ha,ha...yard work, golfing, shooting range. 


You guys are spot on about her. Also, Actuarial seem to be split 50/50 male- female from what I hear from her. But yes, her job is to read and weed people out. 

I was a tool and die guy. Could make a $70,000 die set from blue prints in about 1 week by myself. But the manufacturing in my state has dried up. Cheaper to make stuff in Mexico and china. 


I will write more when I have time....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

Looking forward to it Jerry. I'll leave you with this.

If I'm you, I would attempt to get your wife's love and respect BEFORE finding a job. If you get it, great, your marriage is back on track and you feel better. Then, if you want to find work, great, do it. For you. Not her.

But, if you are unable to get your wife's love and respect, and you don't see hope there, then D first, before looking for work. You will have a better position in the D case for child custody and alimony.


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## happyman64

While Jerry has some work to o so does his wife.

Jerry you are right. Talk is cheap. So she took some ownership of her issues and the marriage issues.

Now watch to see if her actions match her words.

You can continue the MAP.

You can continue to work on your work solution.

Hopefully between the two of you a plan can be worked out and your futures look brighter.

And maybe that future vision will be shared by both of you together.

Never settle for less Jerry........

HM


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## jerry123

Good weekend... 

Had some time by myself and time with kids and wife. 


Wife and I had sex 3 nights straight. Helped with bonding again and she opened up more. 

Has a lot to do with her upbringing. She told me all the years off little to no affection by her parents and the way her mom treats her dad has wired her to act this way. She is trying and caught herself putting me down in front of kids. It was something small but still everything she says to me is affecting me right now. She apologized for it and just moved on. 

I think she needs IC but most likely won't go. 

Growing up she had never seen her parents kiss or hug each other. A lot of fighting. They are stil married, 44 years as of last week. Her dad is 93 and her mom 68. He only has a few years left. Alzheimer's and dimentia have taken its toll on him. 

I am trying to see the big picture here, heck I grew up with just my mom and two sisters and there was not a lot of affection either. My dad was rarely around. And look at me, I have up my career to stay with kids and I show tons of affection to kids and wife. 

But I realize everyone is different. 


One of the posts had mentioned about infidelity on wife's part, I have never found proof but the signs were there. She does like attention by men. And thinking back about neighbor and how they acted around each other is what first got my radar going. Neighbor was always talking about sex or saying sex jokes around my wife. And yes, he had asked if my wife worked out but that was not in front of her. I'm sure he was testing my wife's level of comfort talking like that. If she shut him down on the sex talk he would have stopped but she did not. She laughed at his actions. He fed off that and kept the chit chat up. Trying to take it further each time. He is a loser, I feel bad for his wife. 

She works with a 50/50 mix of men and woman at work. I thought about it a lot in the past and she would most likely not risk a well paying job she's been at for 16 years to have an affair with someone at work. People there are not dumb, they would see something was up and would report it. 

Most likely my gut was telling me some kind of infidelity was possible by the way she likes the attention and all the sex talk by neighbor. By the way, the neighbor is out of my life. He has not been over or talked to us in a long time. 


So all in all, we have issues to deal with. I have to trust but verify no infidelity. Having been treated this way by her for a long time has taken its toll on me but made me stronger. I won't put up with it anymore and she knows this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

So you agree that your wife might have turned her hypercritical work methodology on you and allowed that to color her expectations.

The UTI pills were disturbing when considered in the context of her distain. At the end of the day she has realized you can divorce her regardless of whether you have proof of infidelity. You have called her bluff. Hopefully, she prefers life with boundaries. Do you think she could fall in love with you again? 

Hope you find employment or school. Maybe you can research CAD/CAM and one particular modern metal cutting machine, take a course and become a specialist. Some companies may be competitive through innovation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

HI Jerry:

Hope you had a great father's day.

Did wife do anything special for you with the kids ---- how is the situtaion at home ??

Take care !!


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## jerry123

jh52 said:


> HI Jerry:
> 
> Hope you had a great father's day.
> 
> Did wife do anything special for you with the kids ---- how is the situtaion at home ??
> 
> Take care !!



Hi JH52!!!

My MIL took kids Saturday night and wife brought me to a concert and great dinner. Even got a BJ in car on way home then continued at home with a back rub and a 2 hour romp in sack. We had sex 4 times this weekend. I've been Map'ing it up since our blow up weeks ago. Been keeping up with squashing down [email protected] test. Yes, she still try's to test me but way less than just a month ago. She said to me Sunday night "Hope you had a great Father's Day" and referring to all the sex said "you think you're 18 again". I reply with "I'm not 18 but I sure do feel like it" and "I hope you can keep up with me". 

I've been showing confidence and OI. She has been catching herself with a few remarks and actually apoligized before I could even say a word. 



She seems to like my Alpha side a lot. I was rough with her in bed and she ate it up. I need to be dominate outside the bedroom also. I made most if not all of decisions this weekend. 

Been doing more reading other than MMSG. Like "being a strong man a woman wants" and Alpha moves.

After reading these books I started Looking back at what neighbor was doing with his sex talk in front of her and sex jokes. He was priming her, she fell for it and was reacting to that. Thinking back I most likely stopped anything before it happened. I'm sure if I sat back and let it continue he most likely would have tried to take it to next level. He is a scum and now I see the type of person he is. We have not seen or talked to him in a long time. 


So my plan is to trust but verify, keep up the MAPing. Show dominance in and out of bed. Show independence. Golfing with friends. Look into buying a business this year. 

She's up for a promotion in July with a big increase in pay and bonus so that's the one thing I can't control. I can only try and get some kind of income.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Good update Jerry.
Happy Fathers Day.

Keep it up.


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## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> Good update Jerry.
> Happy Fathers Day.
> 
> Keep it up.


Thanks!!

Yeah, I don't know where I would be if I did not find TAM and read the suggested books MMSG and NMMNG. 

Also, I have to set boundaries for things so next time a guy starts talking like that in front of her it needs to be squashed. I did not do that years ago with neighbor. Come to think of it, no other friends or neighbors act like that around her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

so I take it that the divorce is on hold?


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## jerry123

Almostrecovered said:


> so I take it that the divorce is on hold?



I went to a few lawyers and I know what my rights are. She knows I went but I did not talk about what lawyer discussed. 

She is defiantly trying to change her attitude. With me showing I am not putting up with her crap and her acknowledging she has issues I am trying to make it work. I don't want and divorce, but she knows I will go that route if needed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

jerry123 said:


> I went to a few lawyers and I know what my rights are. She knows I went but I did not talk about what lawyer discussed.
> 
> She is defiantly trying to change her attitude. With me showing I am not putting up with her crap and her acknowledging she has issues I am trying to make it work. I don't want and divorce, but she knows I will go that route if needed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





> "I hope you can keep up with me".


:lol:

Amazing, Jerry, and the mind fvcker is you could have figured it out earlier or never. 

Good if you can get a job with good pay, but if you are a sports coach that is alpha. The soccer coaches are always scoring.

Did you check and see if there is any kind of machine tooling CAD/CAM training? Be a sales rep?


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## jerry123

LongWalk said:


> :lol:
> 
> Amazing, Jerry, and the mind fvcker is you could have figured it out earlier or never.
> 
> Good if you can get a job with good pay, but if you are a sports coach that is alpha. The soccer coaches are always scoring.
> 
> Did you check and see if there is any kind of machine tooling CAD/CAM training? Be a sales rep?



I've been busy with coaching and looking up businesses for sale. I have experience with CAD/CAM but that was 8 years ago. New programming software comes out all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

You could also become a shop teacher. That could be fun. Some teachers are hired as coaches as well.

Keeping up with technology is a struggle. Depends how much geek there is in you. Are there small independent tool and die places that do limited work?


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## jerry123

Yeah, not much of a geek when it comes to keeping up with software. 

The shops around here are drying up. Taxes and expensive labor are taking its toll on Small factories. I was making $22 an hour 8 years ago. The pay is probably $27-$28 now. 

I love working with kids at my daughters school. Pretty much need a masters degree to even get your foot in the door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

You have technical skills. There are always jobs for people can work with their hand, eyes and brains.

You could probably do skilled carpentry and fix up homes and sell them at a profit.

You could always go back to college.


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## Subi

Wow, Wow, Jerry. I remember all those many years ago when you thought she was cheating. You tried so many things to get her to respect you. I am really sorry it did not get too far. 
She is never going to respect you may be. She just needs you around to feel the void but I hardly doubt she feels anything for you. 
Ooooh hard position to be in. May be sometimes you just have to avoid the embarrassing situations. Oh I dont know. May be you could stay for the kids sake. It is really hard sometimes.


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## weightlifter

Arent you the guy with 999 red flags who never could find the smoking gun?

Ever find anything else?


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## LongWalk

Jerry has turned things around, even if things are not perfect. He posted on another thread.


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## jerry123

weightlifter said:


> Arent you the guy with 999 red flags who never could find the smoking gun?
> 
> Ever find anything else?


Maybe not 999 red flags but there were many....


I think with the neighbor guy he was trying to set things up with my wife. I may have squashed it before it got too far. But i think back and sensed how he would always get into a conversation with my wife and it would turn to sex. He knew the right things to say as not to offend my wife. He would start it out as general talk and once she was comfortable and laughing it would always go to something about sex. And this was always in front of me...

I feel bad for the neighbors wife, how many other women has he talked to like this. She is the classic sub wife. SAHM...she was always hearing how he talked like this in front of women but never did she complain or say something. 

The other red flags were how my wife treated me. Put me down in front of others. In the past i would just let it go. Now before parties she tells me if she says something to upset me to pull her aside and let her know. She does have issues on how she was brought up and i think that translates into how she treats me. 

Sex in the past (2 years ago) was maybe 2X a month. Now its progressed to 2-3X a week. July 4th week it was 8X in four days.

Plus i think she is a bit Narcissistic, always has to look good whether she is going to work or going to store to get milk. No empathy what so ever...does not take criticism very good.


Yeah, things are much better now. But i can't let my guard down with her at all.


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## GTdad

jerry123 said:


> Yeah, things are much better now. But i can't let my guard down with her at all.


No, not at all. Besides whatever else has happened, this is the same woman who threatened you with false child abuse allegations. That would be an absolute deal breaker for me (though admittedly I've been tottering on the fence in my own marriage for some time, and it wouldn't take anything this drastic to tip me over the edge). At an absolute minimum, though, this sort of thing makes her a woman to be very wary of.


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## ChargingCharlie

Hi, Jerry.

Thanks for posting this. My wife has a few of the same issues, and I know that I need to man up and confront her on these.  The other day, we were driving somewhere, and she blew a gasket because I wasn't finding a parking spot (it goes a little deeper than that, but suffice to say, her attitude was way out of line for something of this nature, but this is a regular occurance). I didn't want to confront her in front of the kids, and the place we were at was public, so I decided not to. She calmed down later, but she's the type that if I don't do things the way she wants me to, she'll nag me and even blow up. Like you, I try to stay calm and be the mature one, although it does build up inside me to where I want to blow. 

Also has issues with immaturity (acts like a 12 year old a lot of the time, and her sense of humor is very juvenile), and I think this has something to do with her nagging issues. In our case, she is also very insecure and wants to be liked, so with everyone else, she'll be nice and want to get along (living here in semi-rural Nebraska, we do have a lot of friends), but with me she'll pick and nag every little thing (she gets mad if I don't load the dishwasher correctly in her view).

You mentioned that the two of you had a lot of sex recently. Do you think this helped with her issues? We have no sex, and I don't even try to initiate as she'll complain that she's tired, and will just go through the motions. 

Sorry for hijacking your thread. Reading your posts and the responses woke me up a bit, and I felt like I had to put my .02 in. I know that I'm far, far from perfect (I know she has some issues with me that I won't go into here, but nothing unusual in a relationship), but I'm one that doesn't like conflict, so I don't say much about it, but try to stay calm and quiet, which befits my personality, but doesn't work in showing her how an adult should act.


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## weightlifter

Its amazing how many things are common to all this. 

Some of Jerrys. Some of Chargings. Some of 999 others.

Tho Im the one with the juvenile sense of humor. Well as long as crude=juvenile. Then again. I have fun with my friends.


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## temperance

Too bad you didn't tape her on her attempt to make false accusation on you. That's why she claimed her corporate ladder. Seems that she has found success in corporate politics behaving the way she did, and she thinks that should also work with the marriage. I am sorry you need to go through with this.


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## jerry123

ChargingCharlie said:


> Hi, Jerry.
> 
> Thanks for posting this. My wife has a few of the same issues, and I know that I need to man up and confront her on these. The other day, we were driving somewhere, and she blew a gasket because I wasn't finding a parking spot (it goes a little deeper than that, but suffice to say, her attitude was way out of line for something of this nature, but this is a regular occurance). I didn't want to confront her in front of the kids, and the place we were at was public, so I decided not to. She calmed down later, but she's the type that if I don't do things the way she wants me to, she'll nag me and even blow up. Like you, I try to stay calm and be the mature one, although it does build up inside me to where I want to blow.
> 
> Also has issues with immaturity (acts like a 12 year old a lot of the time, and her sense of humor is very juvenile), and I think this has something to do with her nagging issues. In our case, she is also very insecure and wants to be liked, so with everyone else, she'll be nice and want to get along (living here in semi-rural Nebraska, we do have a lot of friends), but with me she'll pick and nag every little thing (she gets mad if I don't load the dishwasher correctly in her view).
> 
> You mentioned that the two of you had a lot of sex recently. Do you think this helped with her issues? We have no sex, and I don't even try to initiate as she'll complain that she's tired, and will just go through the motions.
> 
> Sorry for hijacking your thread. Reading your posts and the responses woke me up a bit, and I felt like I had to put my .02 in. I know that I'm far, far from perfect (I know she has some issues with me that I won't go into here, but nothing unusual in a relationship), but I'm one that doesn't like conflict, so I don't say much about it, but try to stay calm and quiet, which befits my personality, but doesn't work in showing her how an adult should act.



Ha!! Just read this...Yeah, they must be sisters. 

My wife's answer to her biachy-ness in the past was...that's my way of venting so just sit there and deal with it. 

Not anymore. She wants me to call her out on it now. Which is like night and day from before but I just keep thinking, don't even biach in the first place. Which would be nice but she's an Alpha woman unfortunately. 

We had tons of sex on vaca which is usually the case. We are going to Vegas Saturday just the two of us, and I've already planted the seed that sex will be multiple times a day. 

Our average is 2x a week (not on vaca) with plenty of BJ's as foreplay. She has said in the past I "make" her give me BJ's all the time but she does not complain while doing it. She responds to me being forceful in bed and likes it rough. 

My wife is an introvert big time. No girlfriends at all. Does not like having parties. She even got passed when I invited some SAHM to my daughters party. Started up with me at party but I just ignored her and drank with the moms. In the past I would cower up and give in. 

I really think wives like ours need to be re-trained how to act with us. We let it go on for so long they think its status quo. 

You guys really should be having sex a lot. It may help with her attitude. Sex does wonders for men and women. Make her O a lot and cum inside her. 

Have you read the "books"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Ha!! Just read this...Yeah, they must be sisters.
> 
> My wife's answer to her biachy-ness in the past was...that's my way of venting so just sit there and deal with it.
> 
> Not anymore. She wants me to call her out on it now. Which is like night and day from before but I just keep thinking, don't even biach in the first place. Which would be nice but she's an Alpha woman unfortunately.
> 
> We had tons of sex on vaca which is usually the case. We are going to Vegas Saturday just the two of us, and I've already planted the seed that sex will be multiple times a day.
> 
> Our average is 2x a week (not on vaca) with plenty of BJ's as foreplay. She has said in the past I "make" her give me BJ's all the time but she does not complain while doing it. She responds to me being forceful in bed and likes it rough.
> 
> My wife is an introvert big time. No girlfriends at all. Does not like having parties. She even got passed when I invited some SAHM to my daughters party. Started up with me at party but I just ignored her and drank with the moms. In the past I would cower up and give in.
> 
> I really think wives like ours need to be re-trained how to act with us. We let it go on for so long they think its status quo.
> 
> You guys really should be having sex a lot. It may help with her attitude. Sex does wonders for men and women. Make her O a lot and cum inside her.
> 
> Have you read the "books"?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Who's the Alpha now Jerry!*

Keep moving her forward and supplying those orgasms.

That is one way to many women's brains......


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## jerry123

happyman64 said:


> *Who's the Alpha now Jerry!*
> 
> Keep moving her forward and supplying those orgasms.
> 
> That is one way to many women's brains......



Ha,ha!! 

Yeah, just last night I was not really that horny but wanted to test something. She put kids to bed, washed up....I then told her to lock our door and undress. I can tell she was tired since it was around 11pm but she complied. 

I oiled her back up a bit then went to town on her. For a good 45 minutes. I finished then laid with her for a bit then fell asleep. Mostly thought about what I wanted, she had an O but I was not overly thinking of trying to get her off. 

In the past I would try and make sure she would get off before me. After reading MMSG I learned to take charge of what I wanted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

jerry123 said:


> Ha,ha!!
> 
> Yeah, just last night I was not really that horny but wanted to test something. She put kids to bed, washed up....I then told her to lock our door and undress. I can tell she was tired since it was around 11pm but she complied.
> 
> I oiled her back up a bit then went to town on her. For a good 45 minutes. I finished then laid with her for a bit then fell asleep. Mostly thought about what I wanted, she had an O but I was not overly thinking of trying to get her off.
> 
> In the past I would try and make sure she would get off before me. After reading MMSG I learned to take charge of what I wanted.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nice test!

Keep taking charge. She obviously needs that.

HM


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## LongWalk

Happy New Year, Jerry!


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## weightlifter

He has been back today. Wonder how it is all going.


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