# Control vs. freedom: which more effectively prevents affairs?



## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I dont think its right to impose boundaries on our spouse.Far better to recognise our own need to carefully and sensibly decide what our own boundaries are.

With your past I would have thought you needed clear sensible boundaries with the opposite sex and also with drink, the internet etc. 

I have seen so many marriages destroyed through people getting too close to someone of the opposite sex, some of them in my own family, so I do have boundaries. One of them is that I would never go out for a meal or spend time alone in that way with a man who wasn't in my family. 
Nor would I have a long car journey alone with a man. 
I wouldn't have a close friend of the opposite sex period. I have friends who are men, mainly the husbands of the women I know, but I would never spend time alone with them or any other man apart from family. 

My husband has never told me what boundaries I need to have, because he is very laid back and knows that I am sensible in this. He has his own boundaries and if a situation comes up that we are not sure about we will discuss it and decide what is appropriate.

We are the last people who would cheat. We both had long first marriages(23 and 25 years) and have been married to each other for 12 years and neither of us has ever cheated but I just see it as wise to be careful. As the saying goes, its no good shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Please remember that many who cheat didn't set out to do so. They did it because they got too emotionally close to someone of the opposite sex. 
If someone is intent on cheating they will do it anyway, but many don't and many affairs could have been prevented by each spouse having good sensible boundaries.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Well communication about anything with safety is certainly a great affair killer.

I have found being someone that doesn't tolerate unfaithfulness at all helps as well.

Toss in the fact that I am capable and willing to physically decimate any idiot stupid enough to impose on my marriage and we are pretty secure.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Machjo said:


> I agree. In fact, I impose boundaries on myself that many would probably find to be quite extreme; but these are boundaries that I impose on myself and that my wife respects and supports but are not boundaries that my wife imposes on me. I find that my wife imposes stricter boundaries on herself that i do on her too.


But you both think its ok to go out alone with a member of the opposite sex, so what are your boundaries? That for me is a very basic boundary, no trips out alone with a member of the opposite sex. No close friendships with a member of the opposite sex. Any male friend I have is also a friend of my husbands.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I prefer trust to control. But when trust is broken, there is no going back, its over.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Machjo said:


> Interesting. Yes, my friends are her friends and hers are mine too. As for meeting a person of the opposite sex alone, at least in our marriage, that's not really a boundary that we've explicitly imposed on one another. In spite of that though, I actually can't remember any specific occasion when I have been alone with another woman since I'd married my wife. I've been with other women without my wife present I suppose, but never alone with another woman other than maybe my mother. But again, that's not really a rule that my wife has imposed on me but rather one that I've imposed on myself. As for my wife, again, though I've never imposed such a rule on her, all but one of her male friends have wives who are also her friends and the one who's not married usually hangs out with us or, if I'm not present, with my wife and her other friends.
> 
> I suppose that if I learnt that my wife was alone with another man, I might be curious to know why but would probably tend to give her the benefit of any doubt if she should give a reasonable explanation for the purpose of the meeting and not appear to be lying about anything or trying to hide anything from me. In all honesty, I think my wife would probably give me the benefit of the doubt too. That said, I suppose there is an unwritten rule with unclear boundaries if either of us really started to act suspiciously, such as by meeting up with someone alone at odd hours of the night for example; but I certainly would be far less suspicious of a daytime encounter with a valid reason.
> 
> But for the most part, I think we both impose stricter rules on ourselves than on one another.


OK but in your first post you said "My wife has male friends and feels quite comfortable meeting with them. She invites me when she can but will still meet them when she can't and I'm busy for example." 
That implies that it happens a fair amount. Where does she meet these men and what do they do together without you?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I prefer trust to control. But when trust is broken, there is no going back, its over.


Indeed and trust is very hard to rebuild. Not sure it ever can 100%. I am by nature a trusting person, but there are limits.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Freedom, hands down.

If the trust is so rotten better to cut it out. Others who try to reconcile after an affair always struggle with it.

Once the trust is there, it's there to stay, but once it's gone it's gone for good.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Well communication about anything with safety is certainly a great affair killer.
> 
> I have found being someone that doesn't tolerate unfaithfulness at all helps as well.
> 
> Toss in the fact that I am capable and willing to physically decimate any idiot stupid enough to impose on my marriage and we are pretty secure.


You know.....

I like this, this imposing, straight way of going after those that go after yours'.

The big move, the open moves are easy to block.

It is the subtle ones, by lesser men, sneaky men, magnetic men, that get through your defenses.

The strongest man can be taken down by the bite of a weasel. A weasel with a filthy bite, filthy mind.
A mind determined to hold close and touch and caress that which you hold dear.

Beware, large fellow. Physical strength is no match for guile and underhanded gooses. 
Especially those that have gusto. Those that will tip the balance in a flash.

I remember this from High School wrestling. I could manage those larger and slower men.
The little and lightning fast little dudes can tie you in knots, before you can say uncle.

Nowadays, size means nothing. Element (Pb), Group 14, Atomic Number 82, p-block, Mass 207.2. fired by a Pistolero, travels faster and harder than the biggest fist.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Machjo said:


> Usually with their wives or other friends, and usually either at a friend's place or at a restaurant.
> 
> As I think about it, we might have imposed so few rules on one another precisely since we impose strict rules on ourselves. But I guess that still validates the point of the thread that trying to impose rules on a recalcitrant spouse would probably not yield any positive results. Either a person imposes such strict rules on himself or his spouse can do nothing about it other than decide whether to stay, separate, or divorce.


 Oh Ok what you said implied that she was meeting them alone.
I don't think we can or should force anyone to accept our own boundaries, but its wise to have good communication and discuss together what boundaries are sensible and wise. 

If one has cheated, then boundaries are needed more than usual.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I prefer trust to control. I don't want to control, and if I feel that I need to, I'll leave.

I like communication, and establishing what is and is not acceptable to me, and vice versa. We agree on boundaries that we will observe for ourselves, without needing the other to monitor. We both have opposite sex friends, and we can hang out with them alone if we wish. We know which will behave themselves, and which may not - and avoid being alone with those who lack self-control. We can trust ourselves with them, of course, but it's easier to avoid problems when they can be anticipated. With those who have their own good boundaries, we can spend an evening with them alone, watching movies and drinking wine - and there will be no problems and no worries for either of us.

We also have an open marriage, as many of you know. Our boundaries can be very different than most here, but they are specific to individual people (and generic boundaries for those we don't know well). Again, we discuss and agree on who those people are that we wish the other to avoid, and which people we are free to pursue, and under what conditions. It's not always easy, but having freedom _and_ trust is wonderful.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

That's like asking what wins football games - offense or defense? You need some of both. You surely aren't going to live with no boundaries at all. Even if you didn't touch someone or say anything inappropriate with them, laying in bed naked together would be beyond virtually any monogamous couple's boundaries (spoken or unspoken). You cannot rely completely on control either. Nobody could live with the level of control that it would require.

So the answer is balance and what balance works varies from couple to couple and even at different times in their relationship.

In our relationship, we don't have many boundaries beside the extremely obvious. We are both comfortable with each other having opposite gender friends. One of my personal constraints is that I never criticize my wife in any meaningful way to any of my friends. My female friends all know that I idolize my wife, so if they had any inclination towards something beyond friendship, they'd know that it wasn't going to happen. To be honest, though, I'm not the kind of guy any of my female friends would want to have an affair with anyway.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

@SunCMars

The muscles are just a hobby, for health, fun and looks mostly.😊


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Trying to control you spouse is foolhardy, and generally pretty ineffective in the long-term. You can't really control another person. You can, however, control yourself and what you're willing to accept from the people in your life. Your mate is entirely free to choose their own actions. You get to choose how you respond to those actions. Boundaries are for you, they govern how you will act or react. You can tell your mate your boundaries, but you cannot create and maintain boundaries for them. That would be an attempt at controlling their behavior, which isn't healthy or conducive to a solid relationship.

As an example, I would never dream of telling my SO that he's 'not allowed' to have a social evening of dinner and cocktails out with a female friend. He is aware, however, that I'm not going to stay in a relationship with someone who does that. My boundary is that I won't stay in a relationship with a man who's dating other women. He can make his own choices, he's just aware that choosing to do things like that will result in me ending our relationship. Similarly, he would never think to tell me I'm 'not allowed' to flirtatiously text with random guys. But I'm very aware that he would not stay in a relationship with a woman who is chatting up other men. I can, obviously, choose to do it anyway. But I would be making that choice in full awareness that it could cost me my relationship with my SO. 

Be clear about your own boundaries, that is, what you will and will not accept in a relationship. Find a partner who has similar boundaries and/or accepts your stated boundaries. Then, be prepared to enforce your own boundaries - not by making your partner do or not do certain things, but by leaving the relationship if your partner chooses to do things you're not okay with.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rowan said:


> Trying to control you spouse is foolhardy, and generally pretty ineffective in the long-term. You can't really control another person. You can, however, control yourself and what you're willing to accept from the people in your life. Your mate is entirely free to choose their own actions. You get to choose how you respond to those actions. Boundaries are for you, they govern how you will act or react. You can tell your mate your boundaries, but you cannot create and maintain boundaries for them. That would be an attempt at controlling their behavior, which isn't healthy or conducive to a solid relationship.
> 
> As an example, I would never dream of telling my SO that he's 'not allowed' to have a social evening of dinner and cocktails out with a female friend. He is aware, however, that I'm not going to stay in a relationship with someone who does that. My boundary is that I won't stay in a relationship with a man who's dating other women. He can make his own choices, he's just aware that choosing to do things like that will result in me ending our relationship. Similarly, he would never think to tell me I'm 'not allowed' to flirtatiously text with random guys. But I'm very aware that he would not stay in a relationship with a woman who is chatting up other men. I can, obviously, choose to do it anyway. But I would be making that choice in full awareness that it could cost me my relationship with my SO.
> 
> Be clear about your own boundaries, that is, what you will and will not accept in a relationship. Find a partner who has similar boundaries and/or accepts your stated boundaries. Then, be prepared to enforce your own boundaries - not by making your partner do or not do certain things, but by leaving the relationship if your partner chooses to do things you're not okay with.


Agreed, and again that's why good communication is so important before and during marriage. If we talk about boundaries together and what we find acceptable or not acceptable then there is no excuse later for one to deny knowing how we each feel. 

Trouble is that leaving a marriage is far harder than leaving when you are just dating, so communicate then is my advise.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Rowan said:


> Then, be prepared to enforce your own boundaries - not by making your partner do or not do certain things, but by leaving the relationship if your partner chooses to do things you're not okay with.


I agree with what you said here.

But I did want to add that marriage is not a zero tolerance, one and out game (and you didn't imply that it was). Life is full of gray areas, and you may find that you have to be a little flexible in negotiating those boundaries until everyone is in agreement as to where they lie. Accidents, communication mistakes, misunderstandings - these need to be handled with the expectation that your spouse is not trying to actively hurt you or your marriage.

As the saying goes, never attribute to malice that which can be explained through ignorance.


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## Machjo (Feb 2, 2018)

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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Rowan said:


> Trying to control you spouse is foolhardy, and generally pretty ineffective in the long-term. You can't really control another person. You can, however, control yourself and what you're willing to accept from the people in your life. Your mate is entirely free to choose their own actions. You get to choose how you respond to those actions. Boundaries are for you, they govern how you will act or react. You can tell your mate your boundaries, but you cannot create and maintain boundaries for them. That would be an attempt at controlling their behavior, which isn't healthy or conducive to a solid relationship.
> 
> As an example, I would never dream of telling my SO that he's 'not allowed' to have a social evening of dinner and cocktails out with a female friend. He is aware, however, that I'm not going to stay in a relationship with someone who does that. My boundary is that I won't stay in a relationship with a man who's dating other women. He can make his own choices, he's just aware that choosing to do things like that will result in me ending our relationship. Similarly, he would never think to tell me I'm 'not allowed' to flirtatiously text with random guys. But I'm very aware that he would not stay in a relationship with a woman who is chatting up other men. I can, obviously, choose to do it anyway. But I would be making that choice in full awareness that it could cost me my relationship with my SO.
> 
> Be clear about your own boundaries, that is, what you will and will not accept in a relationship. Find a partner who has similar boundaries and/or accepts your stated boundaries. Then, be prepared to enforce your own boundaries - not by making your partner do or not do certain things, but by leaving the relationship if your partner chooses to do things you're not okay with.


I agree. But, you can also negotiate with your spouse boundaries. The key is that you discuss the boundaries and make them known rather than playing a game of 20 questions.

Wish the OP had stuck around. Oh, well.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Trust and Boundaries or more like mutual respect and boundaries. 

If you respect your partner you would not put yourself in positions that could look bad or lead to inappropriate behavior. My XW ended up having an affair because of lack of boundaries and me trusting too much.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Freedom, no one finds insecurity attractive. A controlling people at their root are insecure. In my mind having mutually agreed upon boundaries is not controlling someone. I see "control" as the guy who demands to know wherever his wife goes who she is with what they are doing, checks all their forms of communication drops in on where they are for no reason to check up on them.... Thats what I view as controlling. Just to be clear. 

As far as boundaries, I would think if two people have strong communication by the time they are married they fully understand each others boundaries.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

I'm not doing marriage w/o trust, if that answers the question.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I am capable and willing to physically decimate any idiot stupid enough to impose on my marriage and we are pretty secure.


Cool that we have the UFC Heavyweight Champion on our message board. But you should better preserve your anonymity, Mr. Miocic.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

@;


SpinyNorman said:


> Cool that we have the UFC Heavyweight Champion on our message board. But you should better preserve your anonymity, Mr. Miocic.


Not to mention after he's goes to jail for aggravated assault there will be nothing to stop the A. 

I like the story of the young guy and the old guy standing on top of a hill when a beautiful girl they were both pursuing appeared below. The young bull said I'll get her first old man and the old man said but I will get her for good. The young man took off running to her and the old man began calmly strolling to the beauty. As the young man got closer he was running faster and faster loosing control. The young man shouted to her as he wildly ran past and the old man kept calmly walking. The young man could not stop himself and went hurling off the cliff. The girl was shocked and rushed to the edge of the cliff to see his fate. As she stared at his lifeless body on the rocks below the old man calmly approached, placed his arm around her and said it's so sad he was such an energetic young man, and then he took the beauty's hand and led her away.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

happyhusband0005 said:


> @;
> 
> Not to mention after he's goes to jail for aggravated assault there will be nothing to stop the A.


 @SpinyNorman was funny and made a joke at my expense. 

You're just being dismissive and killing the mood.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

MovingForward said:


> My XW ended up having an affair because of lack of boundaries and me trusting too much.


That may be true, I didn't know your XW. 

But I think there are a lot of people who you can give no boundaries and infinite trust and they won't cheat. Then there are other people who are like a dog and meat loaf- opportunity is always going to end one way. Then there are a lot of people who if things are good, won't cheat, and if certain things are wrong, might feel tempted.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> @SpinyNorman was funny and made a joke at my expense.
> 
> You're just being dismissive and killing the mood.


I wasn't being dismissive, I actually thought that line in your original posts was actually a you making a joke. Given you started out with communication being an affair killer I assumed the rest was a joke related to that attitude. My bad.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I wasn't being dismissive, I actually thought that line in your original posts was actually a you making a joke. Given you started out with communication being an affair killer I assumed the rest was a joke related to that attitude. My bad.


My bad too.

I grew up pretty rough and give my slice of experience as another way to view things.

That part of my post wasn't a joke. Where I came from, I had to crush some people to make a point they understood.

Barbaric but true nonetheless.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

SpinyNorman said:


> That may be true, I didn't know your XW.
> 
> *But I think there are a lot of people who you can give no boundaries and infinite trust and they won't cheat. Then there are other people who are like a dog and meat loaf- opportunity is always going to end one way. Then there are a lot of people who if things are good, won't cheat, and if certain things are wrong, might feel tempted.*


 Figuring out which type of person your dealing, that's the rub.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Figuring out which type of person your dealing, that's the rub.


Agreed.

As for the never-cheat, I expect that and unless presented w/ some pretty strong evidence assume I'm getting it. What I consider evidence is not meeting someone for lunch or maintaining a friendship, I consider that healthy and normal. I understand some others don't.

Regarding the will-cheat-if-given-opportunity, dump and move on.

If I thought my spouse was tempted I'd try to deal w/ what the problem was. I wouldn't check up on her, to me that isn't compatible w/ love.


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## Bear hug (May 15, 2018)

contriol is a sign of abuse. Freedom is is sign of love


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Machjo said:


> ...


Control is an illusion you can only control yourself. You also can't prevent affairs, you can make good choices in a partner. The best way to do that is to study human nature. Human nature follows patterns. Also you can have hard standards and hard boundaries where when they are pushed too far you stick with the consequences. Finally you can be confident enough that you know YOU are the catch and you will be fine if any relationship ends. Maybe sad but fine. That will help you with the fear. This allows you to operate out of a position of strength.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Bear hug said:


> contriol is a sign of abuse. Freedom is is sign of love


 The question of "Control vs. freedom" is not a good question when it comes to marraige. Mutually agreed upon boundaries is not control by one party over the other, it is an understanding between the parties. Also, marriage for most people is an agreement to make your spouse your primary relationship as you both freely agree to give up some types of relationships with others. If you do not want to be bound by your marriage vows, you are free to end the marriage.


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