# Is my wife being selfish?



## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

Greetings.
I'd like to get other people's feedback on a nagging question I have. My wife recently had an EA (2) months ago. She has slowly been telling me the story as it goes on, and each time she adds a new hurtful detail like kissing the guy a 2nd time, or a 3rd meeting somewhere, etc... It feels like each time she does that, I have to mentally start over on dealing with the EA.

During our talks I told her that I absolutely had to feel like I was #1 in her life and we needed to spend a lot of time together on 'us' in order to work through things. She agreed. Things had been improving greatly the past few weeks. A family member asked if she wanted to come visit, which she asked me and I said 'OK' to, so she booked the trip.

Fast forward to this past week. The night before she was to fly out, we had another talk about the EA and she admitted to more details which tore me apart. I was very hurt and started to feel angry & frustrated. We talked for hours and I felt 'alright' after the talk and we went to bed. I dropped her off at the airport and went back home with the kids.

As I got home and the more I thought about it, I started to feel hurt that she left. She caused all this hurt, we're still trying to reconcile, I'm left with the kids/house/job - and she flies out to see family (no emergencies or anything). She claimed she was torn leaving at the airport, but decided to go anyway as a time of reflection.

Here's my question:
Do you think it is fair that she took off, leaving me with the kids & responsibilities - along with no one to talk to - while she goes and 'figures things out'?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Does the OM live in the same area as her family?

Did you check her ticket to see if she really was flying where she told you she was going?

Yes, I do think it was wrong fo her to take off, but not surprising. I think she left because you were digging the truth out of her and she was afraid of revealing more to you. 

You need to prepare yourself for the possibilty that this EA went physical.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

*The night before she was to fly out, we had another talk about the EA and she admitted to more details which tore me apart. I was very hurt and started to feel angry & frustrated.*

She trickle truthing you obviously. Did she tell you that it was more physical than you believed? I think Bandit is right. There's more to come . . . .

My wife's EA didn't go physical (I'm almost certain) but I had to ask a lot of questions to get the details that I got.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Doesn't look like there is any doubt it is a physical affair. Have you read her texts, emails? What kind of phone does she have?


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

The OM was here locally.
I've chatted with him & their stories do line up. I've already got copies of emails, TXTs, etc.. I do believe nothing sexual happened.

I have confirmed via GPS that she did go where she said & has been at the relative's home.

It just gets tiring to feel like she doesn't consider anyone else's feelings. We had a talk last night how I felt this was a selfish decision to leave, which she thinks I'm being selfish for wanting her to stay. Thought I'd bounce it off others that have in a similar situation


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

yes, please believe the 2 people who were lying and having an affair behind your back. I mean, 

they are trustworthy, 

they couldn't have verified their stories with one another so that they match before you confronted him and

physical affairs always happen with text evidence.

Yes, she could have been honest but it is very unlikely. keep your guard up.


How long will she be staying at that place and is there a chance that the OM could fly there?


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

The problem is that you told her it was OK and now you realize maybe it was a bad choice.

I absolutely think she should not be taking the trip--but she asked and you said yes.

Though spot to be in, you might have to suck up and take this one. You really should have said no initially.... really too bad cuz you were in the right...


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

EA aside, you have a lot of communication skills to work on. You are not a mind reader and neither is she.

She asked if you are OK with the trip and you said you were when obviously you were not OK with it. Even though you both agreed to the trip before hand, now you are thinking "How could she do this now!". You are blaming her for doing what she got your approval to do.

If you had reservations about her leaving at this critical time in your marriage you should have said so! You should say what you think! Total truth is the only way to avoid future conflict.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

Warlock,
It is a hard place to be in. I haven't found any evidence showing more than what we have discussed. She doesn't know about the TXT's I've seen & such. I pulled those off her iPhone (finally).

I'm definitely not trusting her fully, but I am giving her a chance.
Good question on the OM flying out. I don't believe that is a possibility since this relative is a friend of ours & is defensive of my situation.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

LostWifeCrushed,

I agree with you - I did say 'yes' initially, but that's before I got more details trickle in. Looking back, I should have bluntly asked her not to go and cancel the flight.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Pack her bags with the rest of her clothes and toiletries and have them waiting on the front porch when she gets home. Change the locks. Tell her before she gets there that since she chose to abandon you and the kids you will be filing for divorce.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

TDSC60,

You are right.
I guess it's easier to feel like pinning everything on her right now due to the situation. Communication is definitely a stumbling block for us. I need to be better at asking exactly what I need.

Thanks for the reminder!


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Pack her bags with the rest of her clothes and toiletries and have them waiting on the front porch when she gets home. Change the locks. Tell her before she gets there that since she chose to abandon you and the kids you will be filing for divorce.


There would be a certain 'payback' or revengeful spirit in me that would like to do that. I just don't know how productive it would be & I think is a much bigger reaction/response than her leaving. I guess the other option is I'm being a total doormat.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Print this off and read/study it with your wife. She doesn't get it yet.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> There would be a certain 'payback' or revengeful spirit in me that would like to do that. I just don't know how productive it would be & I think is a much bigger reaction/response than her leaving. I guess the other option is I'm being a total doormat.


What has your peace-making, equivocating spirit gotten you so far? 

Your wife is nowhere near being contrite or remorseful for what she has done. For all you know the OM could have flown to the same place to be with her. 

You are being a doormat.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> Greetings.
> I'd like to get other people's feedback on a nagging question I have. My wife recently had an EA (2) months ago. She has slowly been telling me the story as it goes on, and each time she adds a new hurtful detail like kissing the guy a 2nd time, or a 3rd meeting somewhere, etc... It feels like each time she does that, I have to mentally start over on dealing with the EA.
> 
> During our talks I told her that I absolutely had to feel like I was #1 in her life and we needed to spend a lot of time together on 'us' in order to work through things. She agreed. Things had been improving greatly the past few weeks. A family member asked if she wanted to come visit, which she asked me and I said 'OK' to, so she booked the trip.
> ...


In reply to your original question above, no, it's not fair that she took off like she did. If anyone needs time to think things through, surely it's you. 

Does she see you as a door mat that she can walk on when she wants?


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
I'm reading through and thinking of my next-steps.


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback.
> I'm reading through and thinking of my next-steps.


You'll get lots of support and advice here. I wish I'd found TAM years ago.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Pack her bags with the rest of her clothes and toiletries and have them waiting on the front porch when she gets home. Change the locks. Tell her before she gets there that since she chose to abandon you and the kids you will be filing for divorce.


C'mon bandit...he TOLD HER SHE SHOULD GO! That has go to count for something....


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

The constant tricke truthing is crushing your recovery. How come she does not get it? If I were you I would demand a polygraph and get all of it out on the table. She continues not to fully tell you the whole truth at one time. If the roles were reversed would she be so accepting as you have been of this situation?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Doesn't look like there is any doubt it is a physical affair. Have you read her texts, emails? What kind of phone does she have?


:iagree:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You told her that she can go on the trip so you really cannot complain now that she went.

If it's a long trip perhaps you could call her and ask that she cut it short as you really need her to be home.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You told her that she can go on the trip so you really cannot complain now that she went.
> 
> If it's a long trip perhaps you could call her and ask that she cut it short as you really need her to be home.


As the BS he can simply explain that he did not realize how damaging her leaving would be on their marriage. He can simply say that if she wants to continue to stay married she needs to return or he may find his feelings have changed regarding reconciliation. We all know that the BS has understandable emotional swings. She needs to understand this as well and get her a$$ home.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You haven't said how deep or how long the EA was (were any "I love you's" exchanged). You haven't said how you caught them.

With trickle truth being dragged out of her and it gets worse each time, I am afraid she felt she needed time alone to decide if she would tell you exactly how far she took the physical side. Do not be surprised if you find out they had sex at least once.

You need to tell her that each time another detail is revealed that it tears you apart all over again. You need to let her know that, if you are to move forward with her, she has to be totally truthful and answer all your questions. If she agrees, let her know that anything you find out later that she lies about now will be the end. If she gives you some stupid reason like "she does not want to hurt you any more" or "she is afraid that you will be more upset" if she tells you everything, then you can assume the worst and they had sex.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

We talked and she agreed that the trip was a mistake. She's on the next flight home tomorrow. She's been a wreck and the relative (even though is being nice/supportive) is ready for her to go home too it sounds.

I agree I should have said something - but I honestly didn't really think about it heavily until she was gone. I guess her being absent was some sort of trigger?


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

Details of the EA:

It lasted roughly 2.5 weeks.
Coworker was giving her attention, she was flirty back. She says he initiated the kissing, but she didn't fight back. They met up after work at a park 2 times and 1 time in the parking lot after work. She says she tried to reiterate they were "just friends" and he kept giving her the attention she craved & kept letting her guard down. Everything I have found in my own research pretty much matches all this. 

The ONLY thing I don't have is the last week worth of TXT messages. She says they exchanged some flirty/risque messages back and forth that she is extremely embarrassed of, but was scared of him telling me that she 'played along'.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Adults don't stop at kissing...

Best case scenario -Oral

Worst case scenario - Full blown PA


What kind of phone does she have? You can recover the texts.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

It's an iphone 4.
I've used a bunch of the backup extraction tools, and the last week never shows up.
I even done a raw look of the sqlite database using 'strings' on the sms.db, with no results.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

make a back up when she gets back and try again.(her last backup might be before this week). I am not sure if there are other ways to recover, I dont have an Iphone.

Does the OM have a wife/gf? Tell her.

And as a last resort(Very important!!!! only as a last resort), you can try to bluff her about extracting her old messages using some tools and if you find more, you will expose her at work and family and it would be better if she came clean.


The whole things makes me think that you are being set up for a heart break when you get the complete truth. Don't close your eyes. Don't be in denial. You think they kissed in the car? Keep pushing and pushing until you get the whole truth.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

The first backup I got was 8 days after I suspected something and she confirmed. I wish I had one closer to the time, but I do not. I fear they are gone.

No - he's single.
That was the last admission - they kissed for the first time in her car. Before she said it was at the park.

I have told her that I was planning to an attorney to request the records from AT&T (bluff) and she needs to tell me before I see them myself as it'll be 100x worse. She stuck to her guns and said there is only embarrassing messages there & nothing more. Her concern is if I do see the messages, I will dwell on it & they will permanently be etched into my mind. 

What are your thoughts on that? Is it really best to know every detail?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Oh boy, time again for another trickle truth translation.

If she says they talked about work they talked about sex.

If she says they met for coffee they went on a date.

If she says they kissed she gave him a blow job.

If she says they cuddled they had sex.


Open your eyes. A blind man can't see what's coming until it hits him.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I would rather have too much information than not enough. Her comments are very self-serving. She does not want you to see what kind of a wife she really is.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

What options are there for getting the whole story?
I've threatened, I can't get any more data on my own.
More importantly - how do you know "that's all"? When can I be satisfied with enough info


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> yes, please believe the 2 people who were lying and having an affair behind your back. I mean,
> 
> they are trustworthy,
> 
> ...



Agreed TS needs to divorce his wife she is beyond saving. He can still manage to find a good woman however that all depends if he feel he is worthy of a good woman. I feel TS is worthy but that is up to him to decide.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

She's trickle truthing you, and when there's trickle truth, there is usually much, MUCH MORE than she has told you. She's only giving you bits and pieces, hoping that the next tidbit she gives you will be the one where you finally decide that you are satisfied and get off her case.

As I've seen way too many times in these threads, the WS goes through the motions of appearing remorseful, and then 1-2 months later, the OP is back here telling us that the WS was secretly seeing the AP the entire time, that the affair has indeed gone all the way, etc...

And ask her if she would be willing to take a polygraph. See how she reacts. If she agrees, even a little reluctantly, then she is probably indeed remorseful and being truthful. But if she vehemently refuses, comes up with every excuse as to why she can't, starts trying to make you the bad guy for even suggesting such a thing, well, you know what that means.

Oh, and you may want to find out the "real" reason that she went on this little trip...

...she may very well have planned to visit a certain "clinic".


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> What options are there for getting the whole story?
> I've threatened, I can't get any more data on my own.
> More importantly - how do you know "that's all"? When can I be satisfied with enough info


Two words. Polygraph test.

Tell her you want to trust her again so you need to set your mind at ease that you have the entire truth. Ask her if she would be willing to take a polygraph test. If she agrees tell her you'll start looking into scheduling one. You should already have complete access to her computer as part of the transparency agreement. Monitor the web sites she goes to. If she visits websites that tell you how to beat a polygraph test you know she's not telling you everything. Do not tell her when the polygraph test is. Get her in the car under the guise of doing something else. Only reveal the reason for the trip when you are literally standing on the steps to the testing office building. More often than not you will get the truth at that point if she's still holding back.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> What options are there for getting the whole story?
> I've threatened, I can't get any more data on my own.
> More importantly - how do you know "that's all"? When can I be satisfied with enough info


Alot of the posters here recommend VARs. Buy one and velcro it underneath the front seat of her car so you can record her when she makes phone calls. Cheaters call each other while driving: they think the car is a safe place for communcation.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

Just TXT'd if she would agree to a polygraph when she gets back. Awaiting response.

I know it wasn't an abortion clinic - she just had her period & I've been with her pretty much all day everyday since.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

F-102 said:


> She's trickle truthing you, and when there's trickle truth, there is usually much, MUCH MORE than she has told you. She's only giving you bits and pieces, hoping that the next tidbit she gives you will be the one where you finally decide that you are satisfied and get off her case.
> 
> As I've seen way too many times in these threads, the WS goes through the motions of appearing remorseful, and then 1-2 months later, the OP is back here telling us that the WS was secretly seeing the AP the entire time, that the affair has indeed gone all the way, etc...
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. Wasn't there a thread a while back where the cheating wife went to "visit relatives" only to find out that she was really getting an affair pregnancy terminated?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

F-102 said:


> Oh, and you may want to find out the "real" reason that she went on this little trip...
> 
> ...she may very well have planned to visit a certain "clinic".


Hey I hadn't thought of that. Good possibility she got knocked up. OP needs to check her credit card statements for visit to a "clinic".


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

*and each time she adds a new hurtful detail like kissing the guy a 2nd time, or a 3rd meeting somewhere, etc...*

Rarely wrong on this as many on here will attest. 

Cheater's handbook 101. Kissing is code for *******. Meeting somewhere is definite code for hotel, OM's house, etc and code for more sex.

Flying off for reflection is code for "I do not know which one I want, the OM or my husband".

All this has been said but I want to reinforce it that you are getting trickle truth. Getting most of the entire truth is coming (at least I think it is), be prepared for the worst. In my case I heard it but could not believe it from the posters here. I was told to prepare but there is no way you can. When you hear, "WE HAD SEX", it will hit you like a ton of bricks.

About 1/3 of EA's end up going PA in the case of women. One factor has to do with once there is an emotional attachment they want to go physical. A way of connecting their inner feelings with the physical.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

As hard as this is, its time to stop and look at the fact that you need to start giving your WW the taste of indifference, along with a strone dose of confidence.

No matter how hard it is, now is the time to show your WW the perception of strength in being able to move on with out her. If she had any second though about you bailing on her she would have stay home and focused on a already fragile marriage.

She has your number and knows you aren't going any were, or why else would she leave? If she was concerned for her marriage she would stick around. She is not nearly concerned for her marriage as much as you are concerned for your marriage. Which leads to a one sided marriage. You can change this.

I strongly suggest you get her to think twice and make her second guess her choices by showing her a new man that is willing to let her go, and is confident enough to move on and find some one that will make you a priority in a relationship.

Sure she could call your bluff, but having the additude of just letting her go will serve you well. She knows she has you, until then she will engage you under her terms. In order to change this around she must truely believe you are moving on. In order to give her this perception you may want to show her a degree of indifference, confindence if you will in being able to find someone else.

Bottom line she will string you along as long as she believe you will always be there for her. Thats why divorce papers are so powerful, just like asking them to move out.....it shows a sign of confidence in moving on with out them, the statement alone scares the crap out of the them, just like saying/doing something to this degree is also scary for the betrayed.

Again with this kind of finality it makes one think twice about the choice in how they treat others.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> More importantly - how do you know "that's all"? When can I be satisfied with enough info


You will never know is you got the whole store. At the end of the day, one or two things happened in respect to it going physical:

A. They had sex

B. They would have had sex if they didn't get caught.

Only you can decide when you're satisfied. In your situation, a polygraph is probably the minimum you need to mollify your doubts.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Figure the worst, and assume she had alot of sex with this guy. Then move on. then let her do the heavy lifting to be back in your life.

Or they never had sex and you will do what ever it takes to work on this marriage.

I think you should figure they had sex, it will help you move on with out her. Once she gets this sence of losing you maybe then she will rethink her approach on saving her marriage?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You and only you are the one to decide how much detail you need. I would require her to tell me the exact nature of the texts she deleted.

She admits to allowing him to kiss her. One kiss for each time or a full blown make-out session with accompanying heavy petting? You get a little more truth each time and get blind sided more and more. Plus she admits to holding back more about the texts. A Polygraph may be your only option to get the whole truth. One poster already said, even though you expect the worst - when it is confirmed it will hit you like a ton of bricks.

Hope for the best - prepare for the worst.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks guys.
She is very reluctant for the polygraph. She is more concerned with coming home & finding a marriage counselor for us first.
She is about to call. I'm pushing for an answer on the poly tonight or we're packing.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Do not leave your house!! Do not even think about it. She is the one who needs to leave. If you leave you will regret it later on. She could cite abandonment in a divorce action if you leave and get full custody of the kids.

Tell her to pack her bags and git if it comes to it.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> Thanks guys.
> She is very reluctant for the polygraph. She is more concerned with coming home & finding a marriage counselor for us first.
> She is about to call. I'm pushing for an answer on the poly tonight or we're packing.


Tell her that because she has hid the total truth from you and is still hiding something, then you feel at this point that a Poly is the only way you can be sure you are getting the entire truth. Tell her at this point you have to have this to move forward.

The fact that she is hesitant about the Poly shows she is still hiding some BIG details (sex, BJ, something) maybe they planned to have sex and you caught them before they could do it - that might be what the deleted texts where - the planning and what they intended to do to each other.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Is it true that you told your wife, "If you think you can find someone better, go for it!"? And then your wife gave you an ultimatum, "Fix it or I'm gone - and I mean it"? This is from another thread in late January:

From another poster:

_"I guess I can't give you what you need"
and
*"If you think you can find someone better, go for it!"*_

From you:

_Last week my wife told me she had enough and didn't know if she could take it anymore. I was oblivious things were that bad.

*I sadly recalled saying these same phrases to my wife*. It's odd how you don't remember saying these things until you really look at yourself. I was not confident. I felt like I wasn't worth loving, so I would say those things to hear her say back "No, I want you"' or "I'd never leave", etc.. It was re-assuring and made me feel better, but little did I know I was draining her and causing her to begin resenting me by doing that. I regret it & never should have done it.

What's sad is I knew it wasn't right deep down, but it had always worked before so, rinse & repeat. I'd feel bad later & try to make up (salt in the wound). It's a vicious cycle and only something dramatic & life-changing is the only way to lift the fog.

For me at least, this ultimatum of 'fix it or I'm gone - and I mean it' has woken me up & in a big way._


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> Thanks guys.
> *She is very reluctant for the polygraph.* She is more concerned with coming home & finding a marriage counselor for us first.
> She is about to call. *I'm pushing for an answer on the poly tonight or we're packing*.


Obviously you've had a very steep learning curve over the last few hours and I'm very sorry that you had to go through all this. 

I'm glad that you're taking all the advice you're getting here on board. 

Unfortunately, the fact that she's reluctant to take the Polygraph means that she's only told you what she felt she'd get away with telling you. 

As others have said, prepare yourself for the worst. I think it's dawned on you already, anyway.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> Thanks guys.
> She is very reluctant for the polygraph. She is more concerned with coming home & finding a marriage counselor for us first.
> She is about to call. I'm pushing for an answer on the poly tonight or we're packing.


I would think twice about the polygraph test. They are wrong 20% of the time. That means she could tell the truth but it says she is lying. It means that she coudl tell a lie but it says that it's a truth. Where would this level you? Right back where you are now. This is one of the reasons that their results are not used in court.

If you want her to tell you all of what happened you need to make it safe for her to tell you. If every time she tells you, she is punished, yelled at, etc. she will close down.

I know that everyone here is cheering that she had sex, etc. It is completely possible that she did not. How could she ever prove to you that there was no sex? She cannot.

She has already told you that the missing texts are pretty bad. 

So just assume that the afair went pretty far and that unless she proves otherwise to you that there was sex, or something close to sex. It's all bad. Tell her that your imagination is most likely worse than reality so she needs to tell you the entire truth in one setting... or you will assume that it was a full blown affair and act accordingly.

And then the two of you decide what she will do to to prove to you that she can be trusted... total transparency, etc.

I think you made a mistake here. First you tell her that it's ok to go. Then you get upset that she goes. So you call her and she decides to come home. Before she leaves to come home you tell her that if she does not do a polygraph test she's out. If this is the case why did you bother to ask her to cut her vacation short?

You are on the BS emotional rollercoaster and it's showing big time.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

No more feline footing around! Dump her and get on with your life!!

Want to know how you can trust women? Don't marry them and try to limit dating to less than ten times for each one.
They can flutter those baby blues and make you believe anything they say.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I would think twice about the polygraph test. They are wrong 20% of the time. That means she could tell the truth but it says she is lying. It means that she coudl tell a lie but it says that it's a truth. Where would this level you? Right back where you are now. This is one of the reasons that their results are not used in court.
> 
> If you want her to tell you all of what happened you need to make it safe for her to tell you. If every time she tells you, she is punished, yelled at, etc. she will close down.
> 
> ...


It is expected that he is going to be on an emotional rollercoaster. She had an affair and is trickle truthing him. The point of the polygraph is not necessarily a pass or fail grade. It is to demonstrate to her that he knows he isn't getting the entire truth and can't rebuild trust with her until he has full disclosure. For her part if she does not come completely clean about what happened she can never put it behind her. She will always be living with a lie and a marriage built or rebuilt on a lie will not stand the test of time. He needs to communicate to her that their relationship cannot continue until she has been honest with him. It may be that once he hears everything that went on he may decide the marriage is over anyway. But the marriage has some chance if she's honest, no chance if she's not.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> It is expected that he is going to be on an emotional rollercoaster. She had an affair and is trickle truthing him. *The point of the polygraph is not necessarily a pass or fail grade. It is to demonstrate to her that he knows he isn't getting the entire truth and can't rebuild trust with her until he has full disclosure.* For her part if she does not come completely clean about what happened she can never put it behind her. She will always be living with a lie and a marriage built or rebuilt on a lie will not stand the test of time. He needs to communicate to her that their relationship cannot continue until she has been honest with him. It may be that once he hears everything that went on he may decide the marriage is over anyway. But the marriage has some chance if she's honest, no chance if she's not.


I understand what you are saying and somehow he needs to get that across to her. But I do believe that if the polygraph comes up with false results the outcome could be horrible. It's my personal opinion on the topic.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I understand what you are saying and somehow he needs to get that across to her. But I do believe that if the polygraph comes up with false results the outcome could be horrible. It's my personal opinion on the topic.


True but 99% of the time the truth comes out long before the polygraph test is administered. Its simply a way to get the spouse to realize the seriousness of the truth issue. In fact I can only recall one or two threads where the poly was actually administered.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

OP is a classic "Mr. Nice Guy".

Buddy, cant your wife understand your feelings? Ok, you approved verbally for her flying to go home. As a wife, she should understand this.

Did she talk to you from her home about how you are doing?
How do you trust the OM and WW sayings? All that you have is text messages. Affairs happen physically and emotionally dear.

Wake up.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah they had sex. He wouldn't have met up again if they didn't.

Polygraph is a good start, so is a VAR in her car. If they met up in her car try an unltra violet light on the seats , waste bins since in the dark semen will fluoresce/glow under UV, do will some fabrics but of you see streaks you know it was semen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> The OM was here locally.
> I've chatted with him & their stories do line up. I've already got copies of emails, TXTs, etc.. I do believe nothing sexual happened.
> 
> I have confirmed via GPS that she did go where she said & has been at the relative's home.
> ...


Kissing is sexual. Actually very sexual. They were not kissing the cheel with no touching either. This would particularly heinous if there was klittl passionate kissing in the marriage. There was touching. There likely was a lot more than this. You are getting trickle truth. There may or may not have been penetration, but for sure there was a significant sexual / physical element. This is not just an EA. It is physical. Do not be shocked it they have been having fll blown sex including oral and penetration.

No she should not have left. But you should not have been fine with it either. You should have told her that she needed to work on the marriage with you and not bail on you. She is has isolated you now. She is free to carry on an affair. You are out of the picture now.

Update: Glad she is coming back.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> Warlock,
> It is a hard place to be in. I haven't found any evidence showing more than what we have discussed. She doesn't know about the TXT's I've seen & such. I pulled those off her iPhone (finally).
> 
> I'm definitely not trusting her fully, but I am giving her a chance.
> Good question on the OM flying out. I don't believe that is a possibility since this relative is a friend of ours & is defensive of my situation.


If it is her realtive they will support her. Get real.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave said:


> Details of the EA:
> 
> It lasted roughly 2.5 weeks.
> Coworker was giving her attention, she was flirty back. She says he initiated the kissing, but she didn't fight back. They met up after work at a park 2 times and 1 time in the parking lot after work. She says she tried to reiterate they were "just friends" and he kept giving her the attention she craved & kept letting her guard down. Everything I have found in my own research pretty much matches all this.
> ...


Coworker. So which one of them quite their job. They have to be complete NC, she has to go through withdrawal and any contact at all starts it over.

If she has quite her job over this, that is going a long way towards her priorities. If she has not that is a huge question mark on her part. More importantly this will enable the affair further.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ask her questions to the face. When you text or call, she can plan her responses.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Oh, and find someone who knows the OM and see if he's left on any "short getaways" in the recent past.

But one poster brought up an interesting point: Male predators would not be hovering around a woman they knew they had no chance of getting past 3rd base with. They'll move on to happier hunting grounds.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

That's correct F102. Bear in mind though, they wouldn't pursue someone who didn't give clear signs they are available for extra-curricular activities.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Why one TT, when something worst happened and they don't want BS to know that. What else other than full blown sex is worst in this case. so you can easily assume they had sex.

Are you sure with the length of the affair? was it only for 2.5 weeks? Did they stop their affair? Are you sure that they didn't took it underground?
Are they still working together? 

Dont buy her lies any more ask her for polygraph, don't settle for anything less.

I don't think that she is truly remorseful, she is in damage control mode in the hope that when the dust is settled they can continue it. If she was remorseful she never would have gone, leaving her husband when her marriage is in threat. Why she want space? to figure out what she want OM or you? Dont remain as her second choice.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2011)

any update?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Are you still with us----if you are---what do you call climbing into another man's car with him, or her own car with him----going wherever, kissing him---that seems kind of physical, don't you think

And if they are kissing do you honestly think they sat on their hands

You do not offer suggestions at this point you TELL your wife what is going to happen, and then she gets a choice---either do what is required of her, to help you heal, and for her to get back in the mge---or she has the option to leave.

Also, why hasn't she quit her job yet---she had an A., with a co-worker---if she continues to go to work---they continue with contact

How is she showing remorse, contriteness, what heavy lifting is she doing----also stay fairly harsh at this point---NO mr. nice--guy----NO lovey--dovey---she has to be accountable, and she has to know there are consequences that go along with her A.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

Update:

After a very confrontational and upsetting weekend, we talked & she gave me the rest of the details. I explained I had to know all the details of everything and giving a little bit at a time was torturing & preventing the healing process.

She agreed and explained she was very embarrassed and wanted to tell me, but chocked when I asked. No more lies & she told me everything, all details.

She has quit her job, she did agree to the poly & also swore on the Bible. She has cried, said she's sorry a gazillion times & is very embarrassed. You can tell when you have a heart-felt discussion, that's why I knew she wasn't giving me all the details before. After laying it all out, she was very engaging almost like she wanted to talk about it & get it all out, which I'm sure she did. 

The situation was not as bad as the paranoid on here made me panic about. Elegirl was the only sensible one here & was pretty much spot-on: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/625029-post51.html


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

It sounds like she is torturing you SLOWLY with trickle truths which in her mind might clear her conscience, but in doing so, she dumped a load of toxic waste on YOU and then she takes off. 

If she doesn't watch out, you are going to get very very angry, let this stuff eat away at you, and you may leave. What usually happens is that the partner who caused the other such pain has the gall to be surprised when the hurt spouse leaves. 

Use this time alone to do tons of soul searching and figure out what is best for you and your children. She has already shown you that your feelings are not first and foremost in her mind.

Members of TAM, do you think he should do the 180? The change in your behavior may wake her up. She sounds like she craves attention and even negative attention (you arguing with her, calling her on her lies, voicing your hurt, etc.) is still attention. If you do the 180 and show her that you can live just fine without her and stop giving her the attention she craves, she may be forced to face what she is about to lose. 

I hope things get better for you and I am sorry you have to feel this pain.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

The main point of this thread was to ask if her trip was a selfish act considering everything going on. She did admit it was, but we both didn't really speak up - typically communication issues.

I let too many people fill my head with paranoid thoughts & almost erased all the positive work we had done for the past 4-5 weeks. It's hard not to think the worst sometimes when you are fearful/scared, but the fact is - she screwed up & she has fessed up. She wanted to get caught, she didn't want it - but was too weak/scared to talk. She puked her guts out for 2 weeks among other physical guilt/stress reactions.

I got the closure from what happened a few days ago. She has been an open book ever since. Gives me her phone, all passwords, calls a dozen times a day, etc... She said a huge weight is now off her shoulders by finally feeling like she could talk about what happened.

Things are good & I'm focusing on the future. We're setting up more boundaries/rules to prevent anything like this in the future & talking about stuff that we should have done years ago.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

My prayers are with you and your wife and I hope you will get over this hump and be very happy. You deserve it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> I let too many people fill my head with paranoid thoughts & almost erased all the positive work we had done for the past 4-5 weeks.


No one filled your head with anything.

You came on this board and asked for our imput and advice. What you let into your head is your's to own, not ours.

You should feel lucky you have an outlet like TAM to go to. A counselor would have just buttered your a*s and taken your money.


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## UnHappyWife_WantsToLeave (Jan 20, 2012)

That's funny you say that.
We went to counseling for 6 weeks and that's pretty much what the guy done. No cohesion between sessions, and really no substance or plans - just empty talks & childhood stuff. Very unsatisfying for the money. Not saying we won't go to counseling again, but definitely will be pickier.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What phone does she have? And you are giving up on the poly?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I could easily swear on the Bible. lol. It's just a book.

Glad you got closure and your wife is being more open. I hope there's nothing else to spew.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

I truly hope you have all the information you need to move forward. The advice you received from people here is based on experience. The fact is that most wayward spouses trickle truth until the bitter end. Some never completely come clean. My wife told me everything on the night she ended her affair. I confirmed every detail so I knew it was the truth. If she hadn't been honest we wouldn't have stayed married. I know I was very fortunate and it seems you were as well. If you have the entire truth then you and I both have wives that are the exception and definitely not the rule. Good luck. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Actually if your in the infidelity section you can't help but be paranoid, it comes with the territory. Its up to you to verify so you can trust. If you have read other threads you can see that just about anything can turn out worse and uasually does. You won't find a lot of optimism here.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

See it through to closure. Do the polygraph. If there is nothing it really will help her by giving her solid proof.


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