# Nice Guy = 'Sex Fail'?



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jaquen said:


> This might catch me a ton of flack, but here goes:
> 
> I'm beginning to think that a lot of "Mr. Nice Guys" are just dudes who are super sh*tty in the sack.
> 
> Because, and let's be honest here; how many women are going to become unattracted to a man who is killing it in the bedroom, no matter how "nice" he is in real life?


I didn't want to jack the ladies thread ... wait that didn't come out right.

So, I read your post ... I laughed. A good-natured, humorous laugh, not an uncomfortable, indignant, laugh ... flick over to Yahoo and:

Suzy Favor Hamilton says she has worked as escort - Yahoo! News

I changed my mind. Jaquen, you are absolutely right. 
Her husband didn't approve? WTF?

This makes perfect sense of course, because God knows if we're pushing rope in the bedroom, first thing our women are going to do is be mean to us ... and then turn tricks.

Cripes, I still have PTSD from watching Alexandra's Project

Alexandra's Project (Official Trailer) - YouTube


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Deejo said:


> I didn't want to jack the ladies thread ... wait that didn't come out right.
> 
> So, I read your post ... I laughed. A good-natured, humorous laugh, not an uncomfortable, indignant, laugh ... flick over to Yahoo and:
> 
> ...


Maybe this is true for a guy who fits the entire package of the "Nice Guy", but not necessarily for those who are just part of it. And even then, there are always more issues than just sex. Maybe you satisfy her sexually but totally screw it up in other areas.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

No, no, no ...

This is not soul searching, looking for answers or commentary on the human condition post.

It's a lark.

Jaquen made a comment in another thread, and then I found that link and the synchronicity was too good to pass up.

I do not for one moment believe that Nice Guys are lousy at sex ... not that I've had sex with any.

I just found the link, and the fact her husband knew what she was doing ... just WOW.

And I did see Alexandra's Project. Every successful married dude thinking about screwing around on his wife should watch it.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Hands down I am a "nice guy". I have been identified as such for decades now. When I analyze it all I think guys become nice guys to compensate for their lack in having that "it" factor that women go bat sh!t crazy over. 

I work with a guy who is a complete and utter douche but I will tell you one thing. Whatever scent is on him women pick it up instantly. There are times when women are in the office with us and I am confident they are going to drop panties and assume the position on his desk. 

Whatever he has I absolutely do not have it. But hey I am a truly nice guy but I am quite good in the sack.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

At least that is what I tell myself!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Gotta see that movie. Maybe have a beer or two first and get someone to drive me there, but I gotta see that.

On another note. I wasn't attracted to that picture of her at all. All that muscle and sinew. Should I say sineeeeww? Anyway will she have to report her income now that she came clean? hahahaha

No seriously, my doc told me depression makes some people go crazy for sex and do really weird stuff. He didn't elaborate and I just went . I hope not. I mean I hope I don't. So, I believe that could have aided her.

Was she taking some supplement to her diet? Bet there is more to this.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

RClawson said:


> Hands down I am a "nice guy". I have been identified as such for decades now. When I analyze it all I think guys become nice guys to compensate for their lack in having that "it" factor that women go bat sh!t crazy over.
> 
> I work with a guy who is a complete and utter douche but I will tell you one thing. Whatever scent is on him women pick it up instantly. There are times when women are in the office with us and I am confident they are going to drop panties and assume the position on his desk.
> 
> Whatever he has I absolutely do not have it. But hey I am a truly nice guy but I am quite good in the sack.


I've read your posts for over a year now and you are a fool if you don't think you have it. The other guy puts off vibes of confidence more than you, that's all. He doesn't have a diamond d!ck, it is that he has the right attitude to make women go wild. I would bet my house however that he is an idiot but he still gets chicks. Why? For the same reason a car salesman is so good at closing the deal. Confidence. 

You're not a douche and you aren't a nice guy either. You are in limbo. A real nice guy doesn't even realize he is one. You have awareness and clarity, two traits nice guys don't have. 

2013 is coming up mighty fast. Instead of looking at some jerk at work who probably doesn't have enough brain power to fuel a light bulb, work on your confidence.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

For a classic 'Nice Guy', confidence can most certainly be an issue. I was never shy, or terribly reserved, and if you asked me, I would never say that I lacked confidence. But ... in practice, I believe that was probably how it looked. Didn't want to be a show-off, call attention to myself, rock the boat, or make anyone feel bad. 

I unreservedly do all of those things now, not with reckless abandon. Biggest impact in my personal journey has been on the career front. I have literally in 2.5 years gone from worker bee, to management and am perceived as a 'go to' guy. Confidence, calling attention to your hard work, rocking the boat, and unquestionably calling someone on their crap, or taking ownership of my own, have been instrumental in the shift of how I am seen in the office, or by my clients.

No problems with dates, no issues in the bedroom when I was a younger, 'Nicer' guy ... aside from restraining my appetites which in hindsight, who knows? Maybe I should not have presumed that women would run screaming for the hills if I was as forward, athletic, and aggressive as I would have liked.

There may indeed be elements of Nice Guy syndrome that can have an impact in the bedroom, but I do not believe that they are directly related to performance.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't think in Hamilton's case it was a sex fail. Let's face it... if you can have sex AND get paid for it, why would you have sex and NOT get paid for it??? Her husband didn't stand a chance.

Seriously, I think it depends on the woman. If she wants a guy who doesn't rock the boat and lets her get her way, assuming she has a decent sex drive he's going to get laid.

But if she wants an alpha guy and he isn't, yeah it leads to sex fail.

Now... where can I find myself an Olympian with some sinews?


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

I always thought it was the other way around. I see a hot girl with a schmuck nice guy....and I think he must be hung or somethin....

why else would they be with his weak a$$. but thats just how my mind works.


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## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> Now... where can I find myself an Olympian with some sinews?


vegas i guess


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Interesting

I read an article written by a woman recently and I wish I could find it right now. She basically said that if you want to judge a man's potential as a lover, watch him around animals.

If he's the kind of person who instinctively knows how to scratch a cat, pet a dog, etc. in ways that give the animal pleasure _and enjoys doing it_, then he has high potential as a lover. 

I don't know if that's true or not, but as someone who grew up on a working ranch, my observation is that the 'alphas' are more often than not, incredibly obtuse and unempathetic around animals.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

RClawson said:


> At least that is what I tell myself!


I've seen this happen in the work place, new guy started and within a minute, before he even opened his mouth the women were literally all swooning, there was no restraint and suddenly me and the other guys were invisible. He was plain looking, yet they all detected the it factor instantly, which as I learned in time was completely the reality of it. He wasnt even good looking, but European, came across as confident but was really an insecure ass hole who would also walk into a room and befriend the baddest thug right away I think he was on the run from hells angels. Yet ALL the apparently wholesome girls even my W at the time, seemed like they'd have been willing to shed their clothes and be his pincushion. I guess that is the kind of sex some people think of as successful.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> Interesting
> 
> I read an article written by a woman recently and I wish I could find it right now. She basically said that if you want to judge a man's potential as a lover, watch him around animals.
> 
> ...


I'm total alpha....and a cat person. I am very good with animals I like, but could care less about a horse or something like that. so not sure this is the case.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Can I step in here and be the 1st woman to speak...



> *ATC529R said*: I always thought it was the other way around. I see a hot girl with a schmuck nice guy....and I think he must be hung or somethin....
> 
> *why else would they be with his weak a$$.* but thats just how my mind works.


 I just want to say that it bothers ME a great deal when I hear other men talk LIKE THIS about the good guys... It's just so demeaning... 

I've seen your posts....your views on








... how casual you look upon it (at least in your past)...this is something I would SPIT UPON.... not all women want this type of man, some things are deal breakers - another's history with women / lifestyle speaks volumes to me. I agree the HOT casual sexed up Party girl, she wouldn't care - plenty of those to go around. 

And I am not some dog faced woman who is overweight by any means.. 

Just as your post rubs me the wrong way, it's the SUPERIOR attitude that repulses me from these types of men ..

*1. *...is how they view Sex. 

*2.*...I never cared about the social status of the man....or how many women were chasing his tail .....in my view that just = less Romantic & his c0ck has been all around town. 

*3.* Nice MEN are generally more emotionally affectionate, more the type that holds his girl as his







- that was very important to me... 

*4. *They are more likely to want children, be Family oriented, make excellent attentive Fathers. 

*5.* they are far more likely to enjoy getting out with their woman - choosing to be with her...over male bonding at the Bar/ Football nights with the guys, etc...

*6*. Also the Nice Guys - are more ROMANTIC at heart....those "one woman" type men...and statistically they have happier marriages too... less cheating, infidelity... less divorce. I could go on & on ...but I'll stop. 

This is why I'd prefer a tipped Beta male (so long as he is good looking) ...over the Alpha studs any day..


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

A few months in the direct sales industry (with commission only pay) can fix any confidence issue -> unless you want to starve or be evicted!!!


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Can I step in here and be the 1st woman to speak...
> 
> I just want to say that it bothers ME a great deal when I hear other men talk LIKE THIS about the good guys... It's just so demeaning...
> 
> ...


Sorry if I offended you, being PC is not my strong suit. but did you ever think for a moment that I may have been a "nice guy" at one point. My 1st love & fiance walked all over me.......was a complete b$%^h and my response was to learn how women worked...play the field and I guess be what some would call a womanizer. although I had several long term relationships before getting married. I am in sales, large ticket, straight commission kind of deal.....so I have hardened myself and mindset. I would say I am one of those that started out the nice guy....but what I am now, 20 years later, is more of a hardened A type through life experience. I wish I was a nice guy. I married a nice girl, my exact opposite. so I do value that mentallity as much as you do.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ATC529R said:


> Sorry if I offended you, being PC is not my strong suit. but did you ever think for a moment that I may have been a "nice guy" at one point. My 1st love & fiance walked all over me.......was a complete b$%^h and my response was to learn how women worked...play the field and I guess be what some would call a womanizer. although I had several long term relationships before getting married. I am in sales, large ticket, straight commission kind of deal.....so I have hardened myself and mindset. I would say I am one of those that started out the nice guy....but what I am now, 20 years later, is more of a hardened A type through life experience. I wish I was a nice guy. I married a nice girl, my exact opposite. so I do value that mentallity as much as you do.


Don't be sorry you offended me ....I WANT people to speak how they REALLY feel, I don't like sugar coating & I am not politically correct. I very much realize many feel as you spoke....

No I wouldn't have thought for a moment you are a former Nice Guy who let his GF beat him down. 

I may not like what others say/ their views at times ...but I enjoy the countering...after all....that's what makes forums interesting, isn't it. People can hear both sides. I wouldn't even want you to water down your thoughts .... 

Now you are saying you want to be a NICE Guy... interesting -that one is. 

You know my husband probably couldn't kick anyone's a$$ .. OK... he's not made of muscle, nor a 6 pack...he's told me it bothers him at work that some of the older men are physically stronger than him. 

But these men have strengths too... where you allowed women to change you... saying you became a womanizer because of them .....sorry ....I had to chuckle at that admission....as if you was not enjoying the benefits of that bad boy pastime....

Where men like mine didn't change who they were at their core for any woman...the fact he didn't allow society & the whims of common women to beat him down & sacrifice his morals & integrity...nor did he loose his SOFT side...ya know.. .there is something to be said for that. I feel it is a *strength* -one rarely discussed. 

I really appreciate the fact you can admit this though in your post....that in this process *you did become hardened.* With your saying you'd like be be a NICE guy again, I can only assume this means more sensitivity....maybe you struggle with the caring side, the vulnerable... I am only guessing. 

Anything that Numbs a part of who we really are or aspire to be...is this our answer - to be hardened. Sure we need our men to stand strong in the face of trouble, shield and protect us...holding back his fear (tough when it's called for)....but to hold on to the soft & tender side when those beautiful moments come his way also, so he can share that with his woman ~ How important this is also. 

If this makes sense. Of course we all value both of these... if you asked women which they miss MORE in their men ... I would think it would be this sensitive affectionate side that shows such emotions. But that is just my guess of course from reading many stories here.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm not the expert here and I'm not sure that I get this whole "Nice Guy" thing, but let me put this out there. I see the "Nice Guy" as being overly "good" in bed, spending too much time and effort and thought to making sure his wife is satisfied, and allowing himself to have way too much emotional vulnerability regarding how she feels about him and what she thinks about him, especially in bed.

The dysfunction plays out here in his thinking that in return for his being "good" in bed and over doing all this lovemaking for her, she will be drawn to desire more of the experience and step up her participation. The result here is unmet expectation, hurt feelings, passive aggression and (self inflicted) damage to the core self image.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

@Deejo ... I watched that movie on NetFlix this morning. Alexandra's Project. Wow. Messed up.
Yeah, not sure what to take away from it yet ... 

-------

The sale reference reminded me of this :

Always be closing


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Ocotillo said:* If he's the kind of person who instinctively knows how to scratch a cat, pet a dog, etc. in ways that give the animal pleasure and enjoys doing it, then he has high potential as a lover.


 I like this finding :smthumbup:.. our cat has always gravitated to the biggest man in the house, I've even joked about how that darn cat is always coming over to him...and she loudly purrs with his touch.....just like his wife.. 



Deejo said:


> For a classic 'Nice Guy', confidence can most certainly be an issue. I was never shy, or terribly reserved, and if you asked me, I would never say that I lacked confidence. But ... in practice, *I believe that was probably how it looked. Didn't want to be a show-off, call attention to myself, rock the boat, or make anyone feel bad*.


 This is exactly my husband... the way he THINKS and FEELS......It is just not in him to show off, brag, call attention to himself in any way shape or form ....and he doesn't enjoy getting angry & loosing it before others .. it doesn't make him feel good.. 

Example.... 



> *calling someone on their crap,* or taking ownership of my own, have been instrumental in the shift of how I am seen in the office, or by my clients.


 He blew a verbal gasket yesterday at work ...I probably shouldn't :rofl: but I loved it !! 

This certain co-worker just pushes & pushes...thinks he is BOSS, slacks on the job, trys to sleep half the time, wanted him to write something up that wasn't right, well.. he wouldn't have anything to do with that, did it HIS way... then hauled off and says to him.... "'You are as worthless as Ti*s on a bull"... ..

I was like ""Yahhh--- way to go, give it to him GOOD !!" ....He still dislikes that people are such A-holes to move him to this attitude... .... But ya know...He'll say what he thinks when he is issed: enough.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Don't be sorry you offended me ....I WANT people to speak how they REALLY feel, I don't like sugar coating & I am not politically correct. I very much realize many feel as you spoke....
> 
> No I wouldn't have thought for a moment you are a former Nice Guy who let his GF beat him down.
> 
> ...


not sure I am saying I want to be a nice guy, but I try to round myself out. i.e. more patience, empathy etc...

I think people think A type and think A hole. well life made me this way, and although I am very proud of what I have accomplished, I also wish I could get back some innocence.

when I say life made me this way I take responsibility as well. I just mean given where someone comes from and where they want to get...a LOT of changes need to be made for some people. some nice guys may have never had a big brother who was always jealous of them to the point where he said and did some things.......that I knew the next time I saw him I was gonna have to take him down. so you learn to fight. (and no we never did)

maybe the nice guy had a better education or financial backing 
I had to fight for everything career/money wise.... for the betterment of a child...and because I felt a moral obligation to my parents to go out and get what no one else in the family did or maybe cared about.

I've mostly chosen the hard road, with few regrets other than it has made me hard. Having a chip on your shoulder and being a nice guy did not work out...at least for me.

now, back to sex talk...


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> @Deejo ... I watched that movie on NetFlix this morning. Alexandra's Project. Wow. Messed up.
> Yeah, not sure what to take away from it yet ...
> 
> -------
> ...


LOL......that movie mixed with boiler room was like my old office. 15 guys, no holds barred.

"YOU COULDN'T CLOSE A WINDOW"....lol


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I've read your posts for over a year now and you are a fool if you don't think you have it. The other guy puts off vibes of confidence more than you, that's all. He doesn't have a diamond d!ck, it is that he has the right attitude to make women go wild. I would bet my house however that he is an idiot but he still gets chicks. Why? For the same reason a car salesman is so good at closing the deal. Confidence.
> 
> You're not a douche and you aren't a nice guy either. You are in limbo. A real nice guy doesn't even realize he is one. You have awareness and clarity, two traits nice guys don't have.
> 
> 2013 is coming up mighty fast. Instead of looking at some jerk at work who probably doesn't have enough brain power to fuel a light bulb, work on your confidence.



Woman, That is the best advice I have received on this site. I have been kicked a bit in the past four years and I have gained bit of my confidence back but have a ways to go as you have noted. A good resolution for 2013. 

I may hire you as my therapist as well.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Maybe Lon and Deejo would like to shed some light on the question in the first post?

Or like, I could do some research (which I think would be the less healthy option...)

Anyway, I realized that when it came to my brain-hemorrhage boyfriend initially I had no attraction to him physically, which is what let me get close to him emotionally, as a friend, and then I fell for him and that lasted 6 months before I was able to act on it. So there is a history of me being in a nice-guy relationship, just that it only lasted after that first year of friends, for 2 weeks (or less...) before he almost died. But, he almost died happy, and yes, the sex was very good. No complaints at all.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I don't remember seeing a question in the first post. In fact I found it cryptic and have only been replying to the replies.

Does being a ng mean being bad in bed? I don't think bad lovers, but probably much different than "alpha" guys. For me I'm certainly not selfish in the act, but I find I was reluctant if I didn't think i'd be able to perform at my best. Rarely was it about my O, but it was usually my intention that we both got there, and together. I think ng's are very concerned about inflicting any kind of pain or degradation. It wasnt until after my separation that it made any sense that sometimes a woman may enjoy being an object of her partners lust and desire, so it may very much seem that ng's lack passion, or have low sex drives, but I think its just that they are used to exercising self control, and not taking what they want when it comes at someone elses expense.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Gotta see that movie. Maybe have a beer or two first and get someone to drive me there, but I gotta see that.
> 
> On another note. I wasn't attracted to that picture of her at all. All that muscle and sinew. * Should I say sineeeeww?* Anyway will she have to report her income now that she came clean? *hahahaha*
> 
> ...


I aplogize to those I offended with my insensitive comments here. I misunderstood what the op was saying and took the post with lighthearted abandonment. My comment about her taking responsibility for her taxes stands. The only reason I apologize for that is because it is not in keeping with the theme of this forum.

The rest is honest opinion, life experience and conclusion based upon articles and threads I've read which I felt contributed to the subject matter and tone of the original post. Thanks for your attention.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Lon said:


> I've seen this happen in the work place, new guy started and within a minute, before he even opened his mouth the women were literally all swooning, there was no restraint and suddenly me and the other guys were invisible. He was plain looking, yet they all detected the it factor instantly, which as I learned in time was completely the reality of it. He wasnt even good looking, but European, came across as confident but was really an insecure ass hole who would also walk into a room and befriend the baddest thug right away I think he was on the run from hells angels. Yet ALL the apparently wholesome girls even my W at the time, seemed like they'd have been willing to shed their clothes and be his pincushion. I guess that is the kind of sex some people think of as successful.


That's just "it" factor at work; it's irrespective of temperament, attitude, and sometimes even looks. Some people have it, most people don't. 

I recall a teacher I had in college. She was in her late 20's, and physically she was not very attractive at all. I remember all us young guys though, at some point, admitting that we had a crush on this woman, while also acknowledging that she was far from what we considered beautiful. But there was just that _something_ about her that drew you in. She managed to be incredibly hot, without the aide of a killer body, or a pretty face.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I'm not the expert here and I'm not sure that I get this whole "Nice Guy" thing, but let me put this out there. I see the "Nice Guy" as being overly "good" in bed, spending too much time and effort and thought to making sure his wife is satisfied, and allowing himself to have way too much emotional vulnerability regarding how she feels about him and what she thinks about him, especially in bed.
> 
> The dysfunction plays out here in his thinking that in return for his being "good" in bed and over doing all this lovemaking for her, she will be drawn to desire more of the experience and step up her participation. The result here is unmet expectation, hurt feelings, passive aggression and (self inflicted) damage to the core self image.


That doesn't sound like a good lover. That sounds like a people pleaser's idea about what a good lover is.

There is a difference.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, I don't know about this nice guy thing really either. People are people, and balance is key, just don't be too nice, don't be too much of an ass, etc etc... and I reckon folks should be fine.

The one thing that I have noticed though about typical "nice guys" (which in my early 20s I noticed they had relationship problems) is that they would bend over backwards for their gfs/dates. Everyone knows the saying "Love yourself first, only then will you be able to love someone else", and that's the main thing for me that makes any sense when it comes to this whole nice guy thing. No man should be on their knees, especially not for a woman. They should love and respect themselves first and foremost.

Same thing applies to their looks/weight/etc etc. Get the body one wants, and the confidence will come naturally. Once again - loving yourself first.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

After reading all this I realized that I am both a 'nice woman' and a 'good lover'. Can't speak for the guy's side but it makes sense that if a woman can do it, it should be a gender-neutral thing. Not be a pushover but be confident and a good giver (and ummmmmm to the right person...ooops.) I am always enthusiastic (if I'm not there's something wrong going on in my head) and very in touch with what's going on.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Lon said*:
> It wasnt until after my separation that it made any sense that sometimes *a woman may enjoy being an object of her partners lust and desire,* so it may very much seem that ng's lack passion, or have low sex drives, but I think its just that they are used to exercising self control, and not taking what they want when it comes at someone elses expense.


Yes, we Do want this! It is common for women to have what Sex therapists call Rape fantasies...



> Women's Rape Fantasies: How Common? What Do They Mean?
> 
> Rape or near-rape fantasies are central to romance novels, one of the perennial best-selling categories in fiction. These books are often called "bodice-rippers" and have titles like Love's Sweet Savage Fury, which imply at least some degree of force. In them, a handsome cad becomes so overwhelmed by his attraction to the heroine that he loses all control and must have her, even if she refuses--which she does initially, but then eventually melts into submission, desire, and ultimately fulfillment.
> 
> Romance novels are often called "porn for women." Porn is all about sexual fantasies. In porn for men, the fantasy is sexual abundance--eager women who can't get enough and have no interest in a relationship. In porn for women as depicted in romance novels, *the fantasy is to be desired so much that the man loses all control, though he never actually hurts the woman, and in the end, marries her.*


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> I've read your posts for over a year now and you are a fool if you don't think you have it. The other guy puts off vibes of confidence more than you, that's all. He doesn't have a diamond d!ck, it is that he has the right attitude to make women go wild. I would bet my house however that he is an idiot but he still gets chicks. Why? For the same reason a car salesman is so good at closing the deal. Confidence.
> 
> *You're not a douche and you aren't a nice guy either. You are in limbo. A real nice guy doesn't even realize he is one. You have awareness and clarity, two traits nice guys don't have. *
> 
> 2013 is coming up mighty fast. Instead of looking at some jerk at work who probably doesn't have enough brain power to fuel a light bulb, work on your confidence.


The best, most honest post I have EVER seen on TAM.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Yes, we Do want this! It is common for women to have what Sex therapists call Rape fantasies...


Yes this reminds me of a thread that I got alot of flak about - because there have been times when I just manhandle my wife despite her saying no and after about 5 minutes she starts loving it but that is a breach of personal boundaries and hence contributed to her disrespecting my sexual boundaries as well. We need safewords...


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

RClawson said:


> Woman, That is the best advice I have received on this site. I have been kicked a bit in the past four years and I have gained bit of my confidence back but have a ways to go as you have noted. A good resolution for 2013.
> 
> I may hire you as my therapist as well.


PM me anytime. I don't sugar coat anything though.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> *Yes this reminds me of a thread that I got alot of flak about - because there have been times when I just manhandle my wife despite her saying no and after about 5 minutes she starts loving it* but that is a breach of personal boundaries and hence contributed to her disrespecting my sexual boundaries as well. We need safewords...


 I probably enjoyed that thread...but I'm sure that's cause I can only imagine what that would be like - and yeah, I think I might LIKE it ! Mine would NEVER NEVER dare go there...one of those cases of ....Yes... "he's too darn NICE" ~ he wouldn't even be able to ACT IT OUT...... but what ya gonna do... 

I've actually started a fight with him one time telling him to be more of a "Son of B" in Bed... then suddenly realized how ridiculous I was sounding and started laughing like mad.









When I say our conflicts are stupid... I really mean that. 

My "Rape fantasies" (don't care for that word though!) ... well.. they'll just have to linger in my head... It's not going to happen. In Real life... I'm more aggressive than him......every now & then ...and he's just joking, he'll say "Rape! ~ Rape!"....but I know he's lovin' it.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I probably enjoyed that thread...but I'm sure that's cause I can only imagine what that would be like - and yeah, I think I might LIKE it ! Mine would NEVER NEVER dare go there...one of those cases of ....Yes... "he's too darn NICE" ~ he wouldn't even be able to ACT IT OUT...... but what ya gonna do...
> 
> I've actually started a fight with him one time telling him to be more of a "Son of B" in Bed... then suddenly realized how ridiculous I was sounding and started laughing like mad.
> 
> ...


Well I don't know if this is common practise amongst couples but I will on rare occasion just, for want of a better word, 'take' her. I'm not brutal or anything like that just a little more 'forceful' and it is all about my pleasure. I tell her that she made me so randy I couldn't help myself. And to be honest (if she reads this I am so busted) I am sometimes pretending. To me it is all part of (I think) our normal healthy sex play.

She seems to quite like the fact that she can still 'send me over the top' after all those years.
Am I alone in doing this?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I probably enjoyed that thread...but I'm sure that's cause I can only imagine what that would be like - and yeah, I think I might LIKE it ! Mine would NEVER NEVER dare go there...one of those cases of ....Yes... "he's too darn NICE" ~ he wouldn't even be able to ACT IT OUT...... but what ya gonna do...
> 
> I've actually started a fight with him one time telling him to be more of a "Son of B" in Bed... then suddenly realized how ridiculous I was sounding and started laughing like mad.
> 
> ...



Interesting.

My wife likes that kind of stuff. We never really spoke about it because i know that she had some issues from the past.
But she actually likes when we " wrestle" and I forcefully restrain her on the wall or bed or couch.
She gets super horny.
But its a delicate , balancing act. Can't be too forcefull, and it works best if she's pissed or irritated at something.

But we have no " safe words," I get my cue from the way her body responds or the look in her eyes.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> Am I alone in doing this?


Nope.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Mine would NEVER NEVER dare go there...one of those cases of ....Yes... "he's too darn NICE" ~ he wouldn't even be able to ACT IT OUT...... but what ya gonna do...


LOL -- Some of us are wolves and some of us are sheepdogs.... It can be really hard to shift gears between protector and lover.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ocotillo said:


> LOL -- Some of us are wolves and some of us are sheepdogs.... It can be really hard to shift gears between protector and lover.


Yes my husband is a Sheepdog - All I have in response to this is ...his other attributes make up for this lack, because frankly... a wolf and me likely wouldn't get along very well. I've read far too much about the man that appear Alpha on this forum to know this. 



> *WyshIknew said*: I will on rare occasion just, for want of a better word, *'take' her*. I'm not brutal or anything like that just a little more 'forceful' *and it is all about my pleasure*. I tell her that she made me so *randy* I couldn't help myself. And to be honest (if she reads this I am so busted) I am sometimes pretending. To me it is all part of (I think) our normal healthy sex play.


 Sounds







and in this way, I envy all such wives... but you see... this is the problem with US... and let me just say... this is the closest I have ever come to* resenting *my husband... When he FELT LIKE THAT In our past - that HIGHER Sex drive stirring him up & those sweet erections were 5 times a day....he could have easily done what you just described here.... 

BUT *he didn't go for it* - thinking I wouldn't have wanted him to do that, or fear of rejection. We never talked about these things.... :banghead:

I feel I/we missed his best years... sometimes this has really gotten me down...... I've had to let it go. These days, his drive is not like that.. if he did put on an act (which I suppose he could as you just admitted)... I don't know... he isn't very good at Role playing..and he feels pressured when I bring this up...

I'd have to starve him for a week or so for him to feel erotically RANDY like that...and it to be REAL - meaning him coming on to ME like a freight train. And I just don't have the patience for that. So I work him up a lot. It's still good once I get him going. There are times he will grow one on his own... nothing thrills me more....but these are fewer & far between. 

I can't take this personal... it's his Test levels. 



> *Caribbean Man said*: But she actually likes when we "* wrestle*" and I forcefully restrain her on the wall or bed or couch. She gets super horny.
> But its a delicate , balancing act. Can't be too forcefull, and it works best if she's pissed or irritated at something.


 Reading this type of stuff is what I ENVY .... This is another thing I made a contention over -about our past, he never ONCE did this... the wrestling.... True, back then I just wasn't thinking like this... but why not him.. he's a GUY....

I think this could have changed everything, and really spiced it up for us, no wonder I was so damn inhibited, he really didn't TRY to forcefully show me how badly he wanted it...

He's told me .. so many days he would be horny as hell on the way home from work...then I would have some "attitude".... who knows what, not getting pregnant or worried over some stupid project...so he just passed up what he wanted... well you know what... I probably was grouchy cause I freaking needed laid !! 

Seriously... it's not like us women really know what we need, is it. So yeah... we missed alot of damn FUN in our past... when he was that Lusty stud. 

Nice guys need to come out of their shell and take control.. So true.... Learn from our mistakes, what I often feel we never lived in our youth.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Yes my husband is a Sheepdog - All I have in response to this is ...his other attributes make up for this lack, because frankly... a wolf and me likely wouldn't get along very well. I've read far too much about the man that appear Alpha on this forum to know this.
> 
> Sounds
> 
> ...


I am no relations expert SA but I suspect your experience is not unique. I think I am closer to your hubbie than the big bad alphas on this forum, but I get 'laid like tile' and so does your hubby.
We had a similar situation to you and your hubby. Lets face it, work, kids, cleaning, work, kids, cleaning, work, kids, cleaning. It takes it out of you and leaves very little you time.
It's hard to feel amorous )) when you are knee deep in nappies (diapers?), crying babies, working all hours and almost permanently tired.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Interesting really, considering the flak I got for doing it, yet it seems what I've been doing from time to time (forceful rough sex) is actually quite healthy. Think we'll do it again once sexual boundaries are established properly - aka safewords.

Find it funny really, her favorite positions are when she's held down and I'm drilling her. Makeup sex for us is a way to get there as well, unfortunately we both ended up starting fights just to have makeup sex - when it's fun fights its great but serious fights... ack. Still remember the time when she tried to cuff me - without my consent, but we wrestled for a bit then I ended up cuffing her. Then she was in for it... and she loved it :scratchhead:

That time I was REALLY p-ssed off at her because I had banned restraints and then she tried to cuff me without my consent, yet she loved everything I did to her when she was helpless... oh well, I still left her cuffed after a while and didn't free her after I was finished because it was obvious she was enjoying it too much and NOT learning her lesson.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

WyshIknew said:


> I am no relations expert SA but I suspect your experience is not unique. I think I am closer to your hubbie than the big bad alphas on this forum, but I get 'laid like tile' and so does your hubby.


 Yeah, *NOW*... cause it's my Cougar time.. and well.. he's my husband... I am the stark opposite of him....when I want something, I go after it.... 

Him.. he stuffed his feelings ...in this way... I don't feel this is the common story ....he was a Sheepdog (not a Wolf).... A Hedgehog (not a Rhino)...a Nice Guy... not assertive with his needs, or wants (let's say). We had it faithfully at least once a week (but really, that was NOT enough -in his younger years -at all- so shame on US).

You know us women are like "Slow cookers"...we need heated up. When he tried, he GOT me every single time. 

It started with feeling rejected when I couldn't conceive. *I know the root*, but still...what a shame. 

I could have never walked in his shoes, I would have been a wrestling seductive flirty octopus. Ha ha 



> We had a similar situation to you and your hubby. Lets face it, work, kids, cleaning, work, kids, cleaning, work, kids, cleaning. It takes it out of you and leaves very little you time.
> It's hard to feel amorous )) when you are knee deep in nappies (diapers?), crying babies, working all hours and almost permanently tired.


 Alot of cleaning in your post there Wysh..... I take it your wife is "Acts of Service" and she LIKED You helping her clean. 

*I was never TIRED.*..seriously... I know this is the common complaint by husbands with babies at home, or the whole headache excuse... NOPE.. never did either one.... 

So many wasted opportunities. Just saying, I know we all make mistakes.. ours just seems dumber than the average... in hindsight.


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