# Weird Stains..cheating with another man?



## curious_gal

Howdie! I have a quick question about white stains on the back inside of husbands underwear. There are a lot and they show up white on black underwear. Is this normal? He’s been more interested in anal lately and fingering my bottom. Am I crazy to think that he could be bi-sexual or perhaps going the other route with men and these are stains from that? 

Gosh, I’m clueless and am just wondering if it could be medical? I know that skid marks are normally brown on white underwear but these are white on black underwear and a lot of them. 

I’m laughing at how silly this may sound but I’m afraid to confront him because I don’t want him to be offended if there is some issue he doesn’t want me to know about. 

Thanks ahead for your input!


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## Almostrecovered

aside from mysterious stains any reason to think he's cheating with men?


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## Unsure in Seattle

Being interested in your bottom doesn't mean that he's suddenly bi.


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## Almostrecovered

Unsure in Seattle said:


> Being interested in your bottom doesn't mean that he's suddenly bi.



My wife would've thought I was gay a decade ago


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## curious_gal

Excuse me but this is not a troll post at all. It's legit and I'm curious as to what these stains could be. He has been extra distant and extremely moody. Also wanting me to try and take care of him in the behind area. He's been taking better care of himself looks wise, etc. There are a few odd things.


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## Unsure in Seattle

Again, doesn't mean he's bi. Anal play WITH A WOMAN doesn't make a man a homosexual.


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## Hope1964

My hubby gets really bad excema back there and uses cream on it. I had NO idea till a couple of weeks ago when we were lotioning each other up after a tan and he had a flare up going on. And I have been seeing him naked for over 15 years. When I asked about it he said he's had it for years too, he just saw no reason to tell me and I of course had never asked "do you ever use cream in your butt crack?"


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## Almostrecovered

well if you feel you have legitimate red flags then start investigating

keylogger would catch him if he's using sites like craigslist to hook up
gps would tell where he actually goes
VAR in the car will tell you if makes secret calls there
text extraction may yied results


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## Shooboomafoo

Its deoderant.


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## curious_gal

Ok, they are weird stains like a ton of something dripping back there and they are high up, not where his "hole" is. Again, I feel so weird for even asking!


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## EleGirl

There are places you can get the stain tested. You might want to do that to satisfy your question.

It is not unusual for gay or bi men to be married. Nor it it unusual for them to start acting out sexually with men at some point in the marriage.

Don't know why some posters are hassling you about this. We have had quite a few women who post here after they find out that their husband is meeting up with men for sex.


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## EleGirl

Shooboomafoo said:


> Its deoderant.


On the butt?


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## frustr8dhubby

Not to be gross but does it smell like anything? I sometimes get sores from sweat I think in the high crack of my arse that I have to use AD ointment or hydrocortisone on sometimes..


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## Almostrecovered

curious_gal said:


> Ok, they are weird stains like a ton of something dripping back there and they are high up, not where his "hole" is. Again, I feel so weird for even asking!


well that's just weird, if he had uhhh.. received anal sex, the semen would have seeped out the anus and collected at the bottom of the underwear


if you really want to knock yourself out, you can grab a pair the next time you see a stain, send that and a hair of his to a lab

ask the lab to run a semen test, if it comes up as semen then compare the dna to the hair to rule it out for being his semen


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## Almostrecovered

in all honesty he could have an oozy boil, or hemhorroid cream or any number of good reasons


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## Shooboomafoo

I know sometimes you sit down too fast on the toilet and it splits the skin on the area right under your tailbone. Usually a small fissure that hurts like a SOB, and requires some kind of medicated ointment...

Ointment... I like that word...


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## Unsure in Seattle

Yeah, it could certainly be hydrocortisone or something. Could be talcum powder, could be a number of things. If it's semen, I would think it'd be pretty distinguishable from anything else. 

Why not ask? "Honey, is there something wrong back there?" It's not a big deal.

As Almost said, if there are legitimate red flags, by all means, protect yourself and investigate.


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## CandieGirl

Preparation H.


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## Thorburn

Maybe TMI. But years ago I wanted to go to the dark side with my wife and explore, but she said no. She accused me of being gay. I am not gay or bi, just wanted to try something different. Many folks engage in this and it is normal. I never got lucky. In your case I am not sure what is going on. You can get a black light or a test kit for semen. If you get black light make sure it says it is made for this. Test kits and black lights will cost under $50.00.

Yea, some of us become experts in this crap because of what we are going through, so you came to the right place.


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## curious_gal

Thanks! You guys and gals all have some pretty good tips. It could be some sort of cream.

Eli girl it's on the top back inside of his boxers. Like if someone dripped a ton of white glue down the back. It's a few streaks from top to middle of his back inside underwear. 

Weird, huh? lol


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## Almostrecovered

semen ain't streaky either, it's gloppy


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## EleGirl

curious_gal said:


> Thanks! You guys and gals all have some pretty good tips. It could be some sort of cream.
> 
> Eli girl it's on the top back inside of his boxers. Like if someone dripped a ton of white glue down the back. It's a few streaks from top to middle of his back inside underwear.
> 
> Weird, huh? lol


Sometimes people get cysts on their spine down there. My son had one when he was in high school. He did not even tell me about it. I found the dried puss/secretions on his clothing back there. So I asked him and after much resistance he showed it to me. After some rounds on antibiotics it did not go away. He eventually had to have surgery to remove it. It was pretty big and nasty. 

Check him for a sore back there. If there is not one, I’d have the underwear tested for semen. At least that way you will know for sure whether or not that’s what it is.

If it’s from sexual activity, he could be using the back of his underwear to wipe up after sexual activity. I can think of ways that a fare amount of semen can get on his underwear at the place you describe.


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## curious_gal

Hmmm..ok! You guys know best! I have noticed stains from him and I after we're intimate. They are stains from me on him, not him. You know what I mean? So I'm familiar with what his cum stains look like and mine on him. Just so weird! Aaaah!


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## curious_gal

Ele girl so you think it could be sexual with another woman and he's using the back of his underwear to wipe vs. the front?


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## Almostrecovered

curious_gal said:


> Ele girl so you think it could be sexual with another woman and he's using the back of his underwear to wipe vs. the front?


possible but pretty weird scenario


stop focusing on the undies


focus on behavior
focus on his willingness to be transparent
focus on his whereabouts
focus on his cell activities
focus on his computer activities


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## Kobo

Mud butt


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## curious_gal

You guys, now I'm thinking it could be another woman? What Eli girl said makes sense. Not sure why he'd use the back though? I'm sort of nauseous now.


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## curious_gal

What is mudd butt Kobo?


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## Almostrecovered

RELAX

slow down

It's funny because I'm one to usually state that a person is cheating before the betrayed spouse does

but other than weird stains and the fact he likes butt play you haven't told us if anything else is amiss or off kilter


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## Almostrecovered

curious_gal said:


> What is mudd butt Kobo?


it's a joke from the Dave Chappelle show


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## norajane

curious_gal said:


> I’m laughing at how silly this may sound but I’m afraid to confront him because I don’t want him to be offended if there is some issue he doesn’t want me to know about.
> 
> Thanks ahead for your input!


He's your husband. And you're doing his laundry. If he really wanted to keep something secret, I doubt he'd be so obvious about it. He'd hide it. 

And if it's a medical thing he's embarrassed about, well, talking about it might make him feel less embarrassed if you are matter-of-fact about it. It might ease his embarrassment if he knows he doesn't have to worry about you "finding out" since you already know.

Just ask him. It's probably nothing. To me, it sounds like sweat stains that are reacting with the dye of his clothing, or sweat stains mixed with whatever lotions he might use on his body. Sweat stains would be "drippy" back there the way you describe.


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## curious_gal

Ok guys, I will keep an eye out for other signs. I appreciate the input! It helped!


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## EleGirl

curious_gal said:


> Thanks! You guys and gals all have some pretty good tips. It could be some sort of cream.
> 
> Eli girl it's on the top back inside of his boxers. Like if someone dripped a ton of white glue down the back. It's a few streaks from top to middle of his back inside underwear.
> 
> Weird, huh? lol


There is not telling what it could be..... it could be a sexual with either male or female. Or it could be a sore of some kind.

It sounds like this is something new that you had not seen before. It's worth checking out.


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## that_girl

I would say hemmorhoid cream (or however you spell it).

It's not something most people talk about with anyone. lol.

Smell it next time.


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## bandit.45

Dried sweat is white and powdery. He may just be a sweater. Semen usually dries clear. You have to use UV light to see it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curious_gal

Could it be vaginal fluid dried off of his junk? Ugh..the thought of it makes me queezy! I can't believe I'm even asking.


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## bandit.45

I think you're overreacting. Why not just ask him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## johnnycomelately

Sweat? Does he drive a lot? Ask him.


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## curious_gal

Yep, I'll ask him after giving him a bit more time. Hopefully I don't even have to, lol. Thanks for all of the advice guys!


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## sinnister

LOL. I'm only laughing cause it's kind of cute that you're so scared.

He's not gay/bi or having an affair. It sounds like sweat or cream. Seat dries white on black cloth.


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## johnnycomelately

I am going to have to look at pictures of hot, smooth, sweatless girls in lingerie, because I can't get the image of your husband's sweaty, hairy, haemorrhoid riddled crack out of my head.


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## Unsure in Seattle

I think you'd feel a lot better if you quit jumping to conclusions. Could something be amiss? Maybe. But your evidence is... uh... let's say less than stellar. 

If he's up to no good, document and investigate. But imagining every terrible scenario that "stained boxers" could conceivably be a part of isn't going to help you.

You do his laundry. Be an adult and ask him if something is the matter downstairs. 

And relax a little.


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## SprucHub

Have you tasted it to check what it is?  Sorry, I could not resist.


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## bandit.45

Ick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964

Ew. I just puked a bit in my mouth.


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## NaturalHeart

curious_gal said:


> Howdie! I have a quick question about white stains on the back inside of husbands underwear. There are a lot and they show up white on black underwear. Is this normal? He’s been more interested in anal lately and fingering my bottom. Am I crazy to think that he could be bi-sexual or perhaps going the other route with men and these are stains from that?
> 
> Gosh, I’m clueless and am just wondering if it could be medical? I know that skid marks are normally brown on white underwear but these are white on black underwear and a lot of them.
> 
> I’m laughing at how silly this may sound but I’m afraid to confront him because I don’t want him to be offended if there is some issue he doesn’t want me to know about.
> 
> Thanks ahead for your input!





Unsure in Seattle said:


> Being interested in your bottom doesn't mean that he's suddenly bi.[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> You must have missed all that in the blue she said before replying. I read where she said more than he was interested in her bottom.:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## lordmayhem

If you suspect he might be having relations with other men, you can try the Checkmate Semen detection kit. You can order it online for about $49 I think. Or it might be sweat stains.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy

Am I the only one who noticed he's asking her to play with HIS butt more?

Call me a stereotypical dude, but that doesn't sound right. Husband starts acting more annoyed and frustrated, being more interested in her butt and wanting her to stick stuff in his, and then he's got white crap in the back of his undies....

Yeah, I'd pay the $49 for the kit and definitely check his computer and phone usage.


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## curious_gal

Well good morning all! Some of your comments are pretty gross but I'm laughing so thank you!

As far as creams go I would know..I see what he has in his bags and obviously I clean the house constantly and I haven't noticed anything?

I guess it could be sweat like some of you have said.

As far as semen detection kits if there were semen how would I be able to tell if it was his or some other males? Gosh, again I can't believe I'm talking about this!

COguy I think you are the only one that noticed that he's open to me playing with his more. Does anyone else find that odd?


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## that_girl

Yea. My husband is very sexually adventurous but he won't let me near his rear. lol.

Some guys like it though...


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## COguy

that_girl said:


> Yea. My husband is very sexually adventurous but he won't let me near his rear. lol.
> 
> Some guys like it though...


It's not that he likes it, it's that it's a departure from the norm. He's acting differently, suddenly taking more of an interest in it.

If the dude grew up shoving things in his a$$ I would call him weird but not question his sexuality (OK I still would but would think it less weird). Having normal sex, and then all of a sudden wanting things stuck in there says that he discovered this new erotic sensation somehow and enjoys it. Like an anal awakening.


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## curious_gal

COguy that's what I was thinking. Like he even let me lick that certain area..was totally new. I hope I'm not grossing you guys out. Just trying to figure things out.


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## sinnister

Curious_gal what you described (while not for everyone) is one of the single most pleasurable experiences for a man. 

The prostate gland is also said to be the males G. I still don't see this as gay at all.


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## EleGirl

curious_gal said:


> As far as semen detection kits if there were semen how would I be able to tell if it was his or some other males? Gosh, again I can't believe I'm talking about this!
> 
> COguy I think you are the only one that noticed that he's open to me playing with his more. Does anyone else find that odd?


I noticed it but did not bring it up. You bring up a few things that raise an eyebrow. That's why I suggested that you have it tested.

You can use the semen detection kit to first determine if it is semen. Then if it tests positive for semen, then send it in for DNA testing.

Keep a couple of his dirty undies in ziplock bags so you have enough to work with until this is resolved.


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## EleGirl

COguy said:


> It's not that he likes it, it's that it's a departure from the norm. He's acting differently, suddenly taking more of an interest in it.
> 
> If the dude grew up shoving things in his a$$ I would call him weird but not question his sexuality (OK I still would but would think it less weird). Having normal sex, and then all of a sudden wanting things stuck in there says that he discovered this new erotic sensation somehow and enjoys it. Like an anal awakening.


I agree with this. He experienced it, liked it and now wants you do it. 

So the question is who did he experience it with.


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## YinPrincess

"Anal Awakening" :rofl:

Sorry, but that made my day! LoL!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

COguy said:


> It's not that he likes it, it's that it's a departure from the norm. He's acting differently, suddenly taking more of an interest in it.
> 
> If the dude grew up shoving things in his a$$ I would call him weird but not question his sexuality (OK I still would but would think it less weird). Having normal sex, and then all of a sudden wanting things stuck in there says that he discovered this new erotic sensation somehow and enjoys it. Like an anal awakening.


I'd have to disagree with you there Coguy. I don't care if I'd get the greatest erotic sensation, nothing is going any where near there. 

This is definitely suspect imo.


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## working_together

Wow, this thread got so much attention, some of it really made me ewwww.

What I don't understand is the fact that if this "white stuff" is semen, who the hell doesn't wipe before they put their briefs on?, and wouldn't he notice it when he took them off, and want to hide them?


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## Almostrecovered

Complexity said:


> I'd have to disagree with you there Coguy. I don't care if I'd get the greatest erotic sensation, nothing is going any where near there.
> 
> This is definitely suspect imo.


I'm not a fan of having my butt probed either but if a man likes his butt probed by a* woman* it is not gay in any way


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## Complexity

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm not a fan of having my butt probed either but if a man likes his butt probed by a* woman* it is not gay in any way


I understand the rationale in that but I disagree with it. A man who enjoys that stuff certainly has homosexual _tendencies_ and by all standards enjoys to be emasculated. Maybe it's my upbringing but I don't see anything heterosexual in that sort of that stuff. That being said if his wife sees no problem with it, all the best to him.


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## Almostrecovered

then show me proof of the correlation

you might as well say-
gay men like BJ's
I like BJ's
I must have gay tendencies


also I have on occasion have anal sex with my wife, am I gay or have gay tendencies?


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## Complexity

Almostrecovered said:


> then show me proof of the correlation
> 
> you might as well say-
> gay men like BJ's
> I like BJ's
> I must have gay tendencies


You're comparing apples and oranges


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## Almostrecovered

Complexity said:


> You're comparing apples and oranges



how so?

your making the assumption that anal play is strictly a male homosexual activity- it's not

getting a BJ feels good
having your prostrate massaged feels good 

the only way either of those activities is strictly gay is if it is performed man on man


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## Almostrecovered

btw- I should add that not all gay men like anal sex

so are they not gay because they don't like or engage in anal?


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## Complexity

Almostrecovered said:


> how so?


Oral sex falls in the over arching category of sex but it isn't the same as penetrative sex, not certainly anal sex which isn't even a sexual organ.

Hence-comparing apples and oranges. 



> your making the assumption that anal play is strictly a male homosexual activity- it's not


No, I'm making an assumption that a heterosexual male who enjoys anal play _to be preformed on him_ has homosexual tendencies. 



> having your prostrate massaged feels good


Hey live and let live right?

Does nothing for me though


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## Almostrecovered

does nothing for me either 

but enjoying being penetrated by a woman isn't gay, you're getting hung up on the acts instead of the performers


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## Complexity

Almostrecovered said:


> does nothing for me either
> 
> but enjoying being penetrated by a woman isn't gay, you're getting hung up on the acts instead of the performers


I'm not getting hung up over anything it's just that when I hear of a heterosexual male who enjoys to be penetrated well..... it doesn't sound very heterosexual to me


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## Chelle D

I skipped some pages... 

Does your hubby use powder to control sweating?? If he is starting to sweat a lot, it could be causing a skin yeast irritation back there. Sometimes people will try to deal with it (themselves instead of a doctor) with the wrong medicine or no medicine...hence the powder question.

If it is powder, then the sweating will just make the powder wet & hold in moisture more & the yeast could grow out of control & ...etc, etc etc.

But I agree that other activites would warrant some investigative steps on your part. But, I don't think its a guy cheating thing.


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## Chelle D

it does NOT make him gay.


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## Complexity

Chelle D said:


> Homophobes... read what you want into that!


Is that a swipe at me? 

If it is then it's pretty sad that people scream homophobia without ascertaining what it actually means and coincidentally does alot of harm to those who are supportive of gay rights when you dilute the word so much. That being said, for one to argue that someone has homosexual tendencies because they enjoy being penetrated doesn't make them homophobic, if they enjoy that stuff then so be it, but let's be clear here, it's not exactly a heterosexual act especially for a male to be penetrated. How you interlock that opinion with homophobia is up to you to be honest.


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## Chelle D

Complexity said:


> Is that a swipe at me?


No.... 
Honestly, some of the posts do seem like you have issues with gay people. might be a religious belief driving some of the posts?
j


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## Almostrecovered

I dont think you are a homophobe Compy as you likely don't fear homosexuals or wish them harm. I just think you are applying your preferences towards a definition/status.


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## Complexity

Chelle D said:


> No.... well, not unless the shoe fits. (jk lol)
> 
> Honestly, some of the posts do seem like you have issues with gay people. Not saying you are gay, just that maybe you don't approve of the lifestyle. might be a religious belief driving some of the posts?


Well I was brought up by an atheist communist and I live in the most liberal country in Europe so we can pretty much rule out anything cultural or religious. I have no problem whatsoever with people who enjoy that stuff as I've made it clear in my post. 

If I've offended anyone or if my posts came across as even remotely homophobic then I apologize, I'm not that sort of person, I was just making an opinion


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## Chelle D

Okay, lets agree to disagree.
j


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## curious_gal

Hello all! I’m back. It was very interesting to read all of your insight on this. I do appreciate it! I haven’t been around for a bit. Have been keeping an eye out for other suspicious behavior and I now noticed that a pair of his underwear are missing altogether. I normally do the laundry and now that I’m more “aware” of possible things I’m paying attention more closely to him. Yesterday he came home and took a shower and the underwear that he was wearing during the day were not thrown in the laundry so I’m wondering where he could have left them (I know he didn’t put the same underwear on because he’s anal about cleanliness). Is it possible he had an “accident” and threw them away or more possible that he is cheating and left them at the other woman’s/man’s house? 

He did this about a year ago. He threw them away and when he asked why he said because he was getting rid of old underwear but these weren’t a pair of old underwear so this isn’t the first time I’ve noticed.

Is this a cause for concern along with the other stains?

P.S. He’s been taking extra special care of himself. Brought new clothes, has been taking better care of his skin, etc. He’s always been ridiculously anal about his looks and cleanliness but drifted from that for awhile and is not back to being anal. I’m wondering if this is more of a new habit for him because he’s trying to impress someone else.

P.S.S. He’s been showering more frequently when he gets home which isn’t something he has always done. He gets home 2 ½ hours before I do every day and someday he showers and some not.

P.S.S.S. If he’s having an affair it has to be at work or during lunch break at work or this person lives close to our home because he’s always home at the same time everyday because he calls and checks in. Is it possible for someone to have an affair and they only see each other for an hour here and there? Like is that the norm? Gosh I’m so naïve.

Am I being paranoid? Or is there a cause for concern? 

I’m afraid to bring up the underwear because I don’t want him to think that I’m playing investigator.

Thanks again for all of your input!


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## COguy

Stop screwing around and get a GPS tracker. The money you'll spend will pay off in peace of mind.

Did you get a lab kit? Check email / phone records?


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## river rat

Your husband's behavior is definitely suspicious. Go into full stealth mode- keylogger, VAR, GPS. Your physical and mental health are at stake here.


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## curious_gal

So I'm not being paranoid? Are there other reasons for this? If he's cheating why doesn't he just leave me? Are people this hideous to other people?!?! I'm a tad nauseous right now.


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## sinnister

Take a deep breath in...now slowly breathe out.

Lost time is one of THE most important factors in an affair...which does not apply in your case.

The only advice I would give you is to try to find out what goes on during his lunch break. There's no good reason to leave with undies and return with none on.


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## curious_gal

I hear all of you but what are possible reasons? I mean, would he leave underwear at someones house? Why?


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## Thorburn

curious_gal said:


> I hear all of you but what are possible reasons? I mean, would he leave underwear at someones house? Why?


Maybe TMI but over the years I have had accidents. Back in the 80's I was in grad school and had a PT job at a Jewish Temple. I ate something came down quickly with food poisening had an accident. I called my brother in law and asked him to bring some clothes over for me. I never discussed this with him or anyone else.

I have been following your story and I find it ironic that you are suspicious. If you go on many websites that talk about infidelity and they say that if a spouse suspects something (in your gut) then you need to look into it. I would put a VAR in his car. Most cheaters talk in their car. Put a GPS on his car. Keep in mind if the car is in his name only you could get into legal problems.

Again it could be nothing but you are here and I ask WHAT IS YOUR GUT TELLING YOU?


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## MrK

He did not accidentally leave his underwear at someone else's house. I'm guessing he's not a button up guy since that fad (thank god) was short lived and long ago. Any time I have had to put on pants without my underwear on I am EXTREMELY careful during the zip-up stage, if you know what I mean (I will NEVER forget my brothers accident some 40 years ago. NEVER!). You don't accidentally forget to put underwear back on.

That's all I've got, except to say that NOBODY goes near my Anus (except maybe Rhianna if she wants to).


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## curious_gal

Thanks MRK - What do you mean exactly? I'm lost with your post..lol!

So you think that he threw them away?


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## curious_gal

Also, I want to talk to him about this without offending him. Do you have any recommendations on how to bring up the white stains and missing underwear? He has a tendency to get defensive because he knows I have trust issues. The trust issues are from him texting an ex at the beginning of our relationship behind my back. I forgave and moved on.


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## Baffled01

My wife has a great butt and I have no shame in going to chinatown every now and then if she'll let me. She told me the same thing about that being for gays, but lots of heterosexual couples do it. Hell, thats the highlight of a lot of heterosexual porn flicks.


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## WeDoExist

Without giving TMI...I had a medical problem that resulted in similar situations. This may sound weird but you may need to "look around" down there. You may see something abnormal that could explain it. (bad hemorrhoids maybe?) But don't blow off your suspicions either. 
Keep searching and investigating until you either confirm or dispel your suspicions. In my opinion, you only have "reasonable suspicion" at this point. You are able to articulate your suspicion and have evidence that may however be circumstancial. I hope you don't find "probable cause", or even worse, "proof beyond a reasonable doubt", but you will never know unless you continue the investigation. Remember...your suspicions need to either be confirmed or dispelled. You owe that to yourself and your sanity.


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## curious_gal

WeDoExist..thanks! Similar situations as in what? Where you've had to throw underwear away?


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## norajane

curious_gal said:


> Also, I want to talk to him about this without offending him. Do you have any recommendations on how to bring up the white stains and missing underwear? He has a tendency to get defensive because he knows I have trust issues. The trust issues are from him texting an ex at the beginning of our relationship behind my back. I forgave and moved on.


It's easy enough to ask about the stains...one day when you're doing laundry, just ask him what the stains are from (so that you know what to use on them to clean them, maybe).

The missing underwear could be tougher to ask about.


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## KanDo

Ok, Truth be told, I have had an accident where I through away underwear. Had an external hemorrhoid that made it hard to clean myself easily and had a problem. I threw those undies away! Also ripped an old pair steping into them afetr using the restroom at work. (although I wore them until I got home). 

Your suspicions are going to derive you crazy. Get a variable recorder, check the phone bills, etc.

Maybe ask him nonchalantly whether you need to buy him some more underwear because you have noticed he only seems to have 6 pair, or whatever. 

Nothing we say heer is likely to assuage your concerns. Don't go crazy; but, start to investigate. Don't confront until you have info.

How's you sex life?


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## curious_gal

Hi KanDo - The sex life is good. We're still at that. He's a stallion though and sometimes takes forever to finish or doesn't finish and sometimes I wonder if it's because his head is elsewhere and he's only doing ti because he has to? Sometimes I'll go down and it'll take forever for him to get hard, etc. Not all of the time though.

How do I install spyware on his android phone?


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## WeDoExist

curious_gal said:


> WeDoExist..thanks! Similar situations as in what? Where you've had to throw underwear away?


I'll PM you CG.


----------



## PhoenixHiker

This is silly.
First, CG, it sounds like you are fairly young, or newly married.

Have you bothered to LOOK at the area which may be causing the stains? Do you see a sore anywhere? If so, that could answer your question pretty quickly.
Did the stains start showing up at the same time as an increase in the outside temperature? Does your Husband drive a lot? Is he athletic? Did he change his gym routine or something?
If my wife asked me where white stains could have come from and I had nothing to hide (I have nothing to hide) I would fess up and move on. If I had something to hide, I suspect I would do my best to come up with a plausible excuse or say 'I dunno HOW that got there'. Either way, you will cause your husband only a fraction of the discomfort you've already put yourself through or the discomfort he deserves. Just take the short time it takes to say 'I noticed an unusual white mark on the top of your pants. What do you think could cause that?' and get it over!


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## livnlearn

I think you need to take a deep breath and think rationally. If YOU were cheating OP, would you just wipe the evidence on your underwear, continue to wear them throughout the day and then nonchalantly toss them into the dirty clothes pile where they will be seen by your spouse?? The guy probably has some sort of issues for which he is using cream...or something back there is oozing. Maybe up 'til now he didn't notice the stains and but now saw the stains on the pair that is now gone. He may have tossed them because they were so stained and/or because he was embarrassed that you would see them. Put your mind at ease and just ASK.


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## EleGirl

If he's cheating and you ask, he'll make up a good story and get more careful with what he's doing.

Do his underware still get those stains? Is it every day or just some days?


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## curious_gal

EleGirl said:


> If he's cheating and you ask, he'll make up a good story and get more careful with what he's doing.
> 
> Do his underware still get those stains? Is it every day or just some days?


Elegirl- only some days...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

If it's only some days then it's mostly likely not something like a sore.

Does he use a computer at home?

Does he keep his cell with him all the time?


----------



## curious_gal

EleGirl said:


> If it's only some days then it's mostly likely not something like a sore.
> 
> Does he use a computer at home?
> 
> Does he keep his cell with him all the time?


He doesn't really use computer at home cause I just got him an android Phone with Internet and I could check cell records cause I am in charge of account and have access. Sort of afraid to see anything though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Remains

Ask him! 

His reaction will tell u if he is lying also. 

Hurry up and ask him. I am dying to know what these white stains are.


----------



## livnlearn

OP said he is "anal about cleanliness"..no pun intended I'm sure.  Is it really likely that he would go have sex with another man/woman, wipe all the "goo" off with his undies, step back into them and wear them the rest of the day??


----------



## curious_gal

Hi everyone. UPDATE:

Yesterday as we were doing laundry I mentioned jokingly that we have to start buying him more underwear and he said why? I told him because they’re going missing. He said no they’re not and got really upset with me. Said “thanks, I’m glad that this conversation is so fun”. Got defensive and actually into an argument with me and left home to his friends house. He said that he doesn’t want to live a life like that where I have questions like that. That the underwear are in the laundry and to let it go. I said they are not in there. I know that so please don’t make me feel like I’m crazy. I was really just joking with you. He refused to talk. 

Well, when I was folding laundry guess what I found? The underwear. I’m telling you guys. I SWEAR that I dug through that laundry when I sorted it in the morning and they WEREN’T there so he must have snuck them in. Anyway, I noticed that in the back there was a yellow’ish/brown’ish stain and I’m starting to think that he hid them because he’s having an “issue” down there and is embarrassed. I let the rear stains go and I felt bad for asking. Now, as far as the front that look like semen stains. I’m still trying to figure those out.

I can’t believe that I’m actually even investigating but I have to. I need to know once and for all if something is going on. I have access to our cell phone records and numbers but am absolutely terrified of knowing the truth. I’m so in love with him and would be absolutely traumatized should I need to leave him. I also don’t feel strong enough to move on yet so maybe I shouldn’t check? 

My self esteem has been diminished a ton because of my trust issues and the things that he has done in the past and I feel inferior. Like I can do no better. I’m very attractive (I’m told always), have a great job and am fun to be with, take care of the home, cook, clean, etc. a good woman to him, etc. So not sure why he would jeopardize that.

Any advice on how to get strong and lose the fear of losing a man that is probably cheating on me? He’s done it in the past and I’ve forgiven and forgiven. I keep thinking that my good “lovin” will make him change but not sure it’s possible. 

He gets upset when I need reassurance because of my trust issues and won’t talk. I feel like if I stayed with him after he cheated he should provide reassurance anytime I need it. To me that is a price to pay for cheating on me and me forgiving you. It’s not a huge price to pay either. Sometimes I just want/need reassurance and want to talk. He refuses. Says he won’t give into my “fantasies” in my head. I tell him that I’m trying to get over it and I’m a work in progress. I want him to help me move forward but he won’t.

It’s also gotten to the point where I’m obsessed with checking things. When he comes home I secretly sniff him to see if he smells of perfume, I check his boxers, give him the look over on his clothes to see if there are lipstick stains, etc. It’s crazy overboard and not sure how to stop that either as I know if I’m going to be with him I need to trust him but how do I trust and move forward if the cheating maybe hasn’t stopped and there are possible signs? It puts me in a bad place and my mind is in crazy fuzzy state. I don’t know what to think.

Once a cheat, always a cheat?

Semen stains in front of underwear? Still very odd.


----------



## joelmacdad

This is without a doubt one of the single most strange post I've seen on TAM in a quite a while...

Curious, you have built this up so much in your mind that you have already labeled your husband a cheater with not so much as a hint of real solid proof. You are freaking yourself out over something that may not be anything.

50 people have given you advice on what to do, but you haven't done any of them. You haven't tested the stains, you haven't put a voice activated recorder in his car, you haven't checked phone records, etc. You did ask him about underwear not being there and he got mad. But then you found them and he's instantly a cheater.

It is time for some hard core investigating and sit down at the table talking.

Sniffing his clothes and checking for lipsticks stains day in and day out probably will not get you the answers you are looking for.

Let's us know what you find out AFTER you take the advice of the 50 people on this post.


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## curious_gal

Wow Joel - I'm sorry if I set something off. You seem rather annoyed. I was simply updating you all to what happened. If you read my ENTIRE post you would see that I said I'm AFRAID to do what you suggested for certain reasons. Instead of making me feel like a moron for coming to the forum I came to for support maybe you can be a tad more understanding.


----------



## that_girl

Well, your husband blew up over something stupid and left the house.

That's a sign of an affair as well.

Why would he do that? Over underwear? yea, he's hiding something


----------



## EleGirl

curious_gal,

His reaction to you mentioning the underware is interesting.. not a good sign. He is defensive. Anger is a good way to deflect and end any questions. So don't ask him anything more. You know how he will respond.

You want to know how to be strong enough to check on things like the phone bill.... well you need to check the bill, get the stains tested, etc.

Since he's cheated before, you are very sensitive to this issue. I can relate.. been there done that (not about the stains.. but going on checking frenzies). 

You need to check for yourself. You need to find out what is going on for yourself. Hopefully you will find that there is nothing going on. Are you afraid to find out that something is going on? Or are you afraid to find out that nothing is going on?

There is a saying.. "The truth will set you free."

Either way... he's cheating, he's not cheating... you will find peace when you find the answer. And then you will know what to do.


----------



## morituri

Granted that there is no smoking gun that proves he's cheating, yet anyway, but his defensive reaction is very typical of those spouses who cheat and since has cheated in the past, it is very possible that he is doing it again.

Now he knows that you don't want to end the marriage so he behaves as he pleases. A truly remorseful former cheating husband would not only not reacted that way but would go out of his way to explain what those stains were all about.

Stop enabling his crappy behavior and if he threatens you again about not wanting to live like this, then say to him "Fine, I can't live this way either, so let's end this so-called marriage so I can move on with my life and hopefully one day find a man who truly loves me". Let's see how he reacts to your display of confidence.


----------



## PBear

Of course, we're only hearing her side of the story. And what's the back story on his cheating before?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## joelmacdad

Curious, okay, I came across abrasive. Apologies for that. I just read so much fear in your post rather than action. But you said it, you are afraid of action and its result. You have to get around the fear and "what if's" and gather the evidence and proof. And I think the strength grows as you start the action.

Yeah, his defensive action signals something out of whack, but there is no real clue as to what.

So many people have posted real "action" to take, but your questions continue to revolve around fear and "what if's".

We all look forward to the results of your "action".


----------



## vi_bride04

You will only drive yourself crazy with questions until you take action and try to find out for sure what is going on. Until then, you will just keep asking questions and being suspicious which will take an even greater toll on your emotional well being and self confidence.


----------



## sandc

Dig into the phone records. Install the key logger. Buy the gps tracker. Either confirm or deny his cheating. You already realize you are attractive, fun to be around, etc. You deserve a man who will be devoted to you. If you are as you describe yourself, you'll have no problem finding that man. But first things first.


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## sirdano

Wow I thought they were milk farts stains


----------



## curious_gal

Hi all and Happy Friday! The story with him and cheating is. When we first started dating he told me he had always cheated in past relationships. Then he got married, decided to be faithful and change his ways and his wife wound up cheating on him and leaving him so he learned his lesson and would NEVER cheat again. That I had nothing to worry about. We’ve been together going on 4 years. He was married and she left him. He started dating some woman and when he met me he left that woman for me. So here is when and where the sketchiness begins:

1. Six months into our relationship I found that he had called and texted the woman that he left for me(she was the rebound girl after his wife left him) a few times without me knowing. When I called her to confront her she lied and said that she was his boss’ wife. I knew it was a lie because I did a reverse cell look up. I sort of let it go thinking “maybe he’s afraid to tell me that they are just friends”. I mean, after all I’m still friends with some of my ex’s. Anyway, after that is when I became a “checker” once in awhile because the trust was broken a bit. 
2.	A year into the relationship on my birthday weekend I found out that he was texting another ex of his from years ago. He said that they were just friends but when I called her to confront her and ask who she was she said “none of your concern”. You would think if they were just friends she would have said so. He apologized and said never again. It was just catch up conversation. I let it go again. 
3.	Two years into the relationship I was working during the evening and got a text from a friend saying that he saw my guy out at a bar with some woman. My guy denied it. I did research and confirmed that the woman he was “seen” with works with him and my other friend. They all work for same company so I knew who she was. We moved into a new home and he went on a trip. When he went on a trip he left his personal email up and I of course snooped and found that the woman that he was said to be at a bar with him and her were emailing. She sent him an email saying that she’s not “messed” up over him like she was before and has moved on but that she would be a friend if he ever wanted to let her in.

At that point I moved out. I couldn’t take it anymore. I figured he had cheated because why would a woman say that to him? That she’s not “messed” up over him anymore if there wasn’t any sort of emotional connection. I, being the sucker I am and in love with him like I am took him back. We started working things out. This is the worst of the worst now.

4.	We hung out one night and he was acting really suspicious. Wanted for me to go home and said he needed alone time. I couldn’t understand why out of nowhere. He started an argument with me and said that I was crazy and to get out of his house. He actually grabbed me by the arm and physically threw me out. I fell down the stairs. That entire night I had the worst feeling in my stomach. I decided to drive by his place in the morning and walked in his house and found that he was there with his ex. The one after his wife and the one he left for me. He threw me out that morning. I was beyond devastated. He called immediately after I left and said that nothing happened. He ran into her at a bar and she needed a place to stay. I said, that explains the “bed” that was made on the living room floor and the fact that you made ME leave over HER. He said he made me leave because he didn’t want a scene and he didn’t want me to beat her up because he knows that they didn’t do anything inappropriate and that I was over reacting. He said he loved me and wanted to marry me. Never wanted to be without me.

Guess what? I decided to stay with him. Try and forgive but I can never forget. We moved back in together. 

5.	Back this past October he went to a Starbucks that I later confirmed is right next to where this woman works. It was bizarre because to get to the Starbucks he really had to drive out of his way and why would he do that? He can get coffee other places to right? Well, I asked him and he said that he didn’t even know she worked there and he’s never been there since. Well, not that I know of.

So there it is. There is his cheating history and this is why I’m extra scared and cautious and why I’m an extra obsessive checker. I feel that he could/would do it again. I mean, afterall, why wouldn’t he? I’ve forgiven him over and over again. He claims to love me and wants to get married but it’s going on 4 years and nothing. I take care of him, my daughter and his daughters when he has them. I’m such a good woman to him. When I need reassurance for the place that HE GOT ME TO he won’t give it to me. Says that I make things up in my head and that I have no reason to be traumatized by catching him with his ex because HE KNOWS what happened and it’s not what I think. That he is good to me and would never cheat. Makes me feel like I’m crazy and that I’m bringing him down. He said if I’d just be “normal” and be a normal girl that we wouldn’t have issues. Puts the blame on me and says that I question him too much. Yesterday he said that all I do is wallow in mud and am so negative and that no one will ever “grow” with me. Made me feel horrible. All because I asked you about a pair of underwear? Because I asked how your night was? He said he hates questions from me. That they are annoying because I knows that I have ulterior motives and am just playing investigator. He made me feel so bad. I feel like I am the crazy one.

Sometimes I wonder if he’s just using me because I’m attractive, cook, clean, am basically like a wife without the ring and if he could get away with having me and another side piece why not? I just don’t get with the insecurity that I have and the amount of questioning I give him why he hasn’t left me for her? I have went to him crying saying that if you can’t be good to me and give me what I need just let me go already. Be honest so I can move on with my life and he won’t. Gives me the same story. That everything is fine if I’d just be normal.

If he’s innocent you’d think that he would have left by now saying I’ve tried and you don’t trust so I’m out of here. I just keep praying that he’ll open his eyes and change. Maybe the stains I’m seeing are not from him being with another woman. I just don’t know what to think anymore. My mind is in so much confusion and I have no self esteem at all. Sometimes I feel like he wants to bring me down and make me feel crazy so he has all of the control and I’ll never leave. He has all power and control now. I’ll give him that much. I can’t even lie. I’ve lost myself because I’m so damaged. He doesn’t understand how traumatized I am. How am I supposed to think that the cheating has stopped and move forward when first of all he won’t admit that what he did was wrong and second of all there is still possible signs.

I start seeing a therapist on Monday. So this is where it all comes from. My craziness. I’m afraid to find out because I’m madly in love with him. He’s my best and only friend and I’d be lost without him. I keep praying for a change and that I’m possibly wrong. Am I wrong?


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## COguy

Informatio that would have been useful at the start of the post.

your husband is cheating on you. he's never stop cheating on you. you should never have taken him back. he's unapologetic and not remorseful. The only thing keeping you there is fear and insecurity.

You deserve to be in a healthy relationship, this is not it. divorce. Then go to IC to find out why you allowed yourself to get in and stay in this toxic relationship.


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## curious_gal

CO guy? Why do you think he cheats? I'm such a good woman! Do you think it will ever stop? I'm so hurt right now.


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## PBear

He won't stop cheating because there's no reason for him to stop. You said it yourself. +1 on the advice to start seeing a counselor for yourself to find out why you're willing to put up with this kind of behavior.

His current behavior (storming out in a huff after being accused of something) is just a continuation of his behavior in the past. Not sure why you seem confused on this at this point. 

You say you're "like a wife without a ring", and you've "been together going on 4 years" ... Are you married, or not? You have a child with him? What would it take you to be self-sufficient on your own?

C


----------



## reset button

I have had a past relationshiop that was similar.

He has no respect for you, leave him and move on.

I agree has has never stopped cheating because you get mad and take him back anyway, you may love him but he does not love you enough to stay faithful.

Wake up and smell the coffee and find a guy worth loving, you cannot "fix" him with love, I tried it and it doesn't work. He need to decide to fix himself first through IC.

Good Luck, go to your family and friend to get the strength to not go back as he will tell you anything you want to hear to have his cake and eat it too. He will become abusive.

Also, I have never regretted leaving that SOB, I am 16 years married to my soulmate and happier than ever.


----------



## curious_gal

So he's not in love with me? Or he's in love and has an addicition? He's always telling me he loves me, etc. etc.


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## Bandit

Seeing the most recent revelation I would agree that something is likely going on.. A past history of cheating and all..

Additionally read through some of the previous posts.. and I agree with those that think a dude getting diddled is a bit strange and effeminate.. Don't know if it would classify as **** tendencies but it's walking on the line and pretty unmanly. Also somebody brought up religion and gays and essentially bashed those that don't like gay people or posted anti gay posts and religious nuts. I'm not a religious nut and I don't like gay people, just think their fudged in the head and gross.. It's an opinion and nothing more.. and everybody is entitled to theirs without being labeled as a religious nut...


----------



## curious_gal

And he says that he gets frustrated and tired of questions and mistrust because he knows the life he's leading and he's not doing anthing behind my back. That he's a good man but what's the point of being a good man if I'm always thinking he's up to something. That I "make up things in my head". Are stains made up? Could they be he is just ejaculating by masturbating? Am I totally off? Or is it most likely cheating?

Because I feel like maybe I'm paranoid and if I just stopped then maybe things would be better?


----------



## joelmacdad

Uhhhh, are you officially married or not (see Bold below)? If you are not it is time to move on. If you are it is time for some serious counseling with him involved. If he won't, its time to move on. I haven't seen one positive thing posted about this man. I cannot comprehend why any woman still wants to remain in this kind of relationship.



curious_gal said:


> .............I’ve forgiven him over and over again. *He claims to love me and wants to get married but it’s going on 4 years and nothing.* I take care of him, my daughter and his daughters when he has them............
> *
> Sometimes I wonder if he’s just using me because I’m attractive, cook, clean, am basically like a wife without the ring and if he could get away with having me and another side piece why not? * I just don’t get with the insecurity that I have and the amount of ques...........


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## curious_gal

Oh yes, sorry guys. We are not married. I guess I feel like I'm so good of a person that he will change. Joel you think he's cheating as well huh?


----------



## that_girl

Wow. GET AWAY NOW.

you're not married, he is a CHEATER. What more do you need to know?

He even left some lady for you  CHEATER!

Seriously ...is this the life you want?! DO you not think you can do better?

He won't change. He knows you will do nothing about it. You aren't that special.. No one is.


----------



## kittykat09

Just because someone says they love you doesn't mean they do. He is cheating on you, he doesn't love you... and he is trying to make it about you not trusting him. Yeah, I wonder why that would be. :scratchhead:

Anyone who tells you "it's none of your business" when it comes to where they are, who they are with and/or who they talk to, what they think/feel, what they are doing, etc is hiding something. They won't tell you because they know they are in the wrong but they are trying to tell you it is somehow YOUR fault that they are "unable" to tell you or that you are deficient for wanting to know. That is *not* ok.

Get out of this toxic relationship. There are better guys out there who will treat you the way you deserve to be treated.


----------



## curious_gal

Ok guys but could it be that he loves but has a love addiction? I'm finding it so hard to wrap my head around the time he's been with me. The fact that he's home with me always. I'm so close with his family, daughters.

Also, he's also very jealous and protective with other men. Syas I'm so beautiful and he is afraid when I go out because he knows I' get hit on all of the time, and there are better opportunities, etc. Why if he doesn't care or love me?

Just trying to figure it out because he acts like he loves me so much sometimes. Making future plans to buy house, etc.


----------



## that_girl

Why can't you just accept he's a jerk? It's not an addiction, it's just who he is. GIVE him that responsibility.

Controlling you is not loving you. I think you need some professional therapy.


----------



## joelmacdad

This changes the whole ball game. Everyone on this post I'm sure thought you were talking about your husband, not a boyfriend.

You are with a guy who has told you he is a cheater. You are with a guy who constantly lies about where he has been, where he is and where he is going. You have caught him with an ex. He has physically abused you. You have been, are and will always be 2nd to him. Classic example of wanting his cake and eating it to. A long term pattern of a mentally abusive (and physical) treatment.

Emotionally cheating on you, yes. Sexually cheating on you, no proof, but probably.

There is something better for you out there. Cut ties, move on before the situation spins further and further out of control. You deserve better.


----------



## norajane

curious_gal said:


> Also, he's also very jealous and protective with other men. Syas I'm so beautiful and he is afraid when I go out because he knows I' get hit on all of the time, and there are better opportunities, etc. Why if he doesn't care or love me?


Because that's what HE is like - he is projecting. He is worried that you might leave him for a "better opportunity" because he knows that is what HE would do. 

In fact, that is something he already did in order to be with you. He did it once; he could do it again. He believes everyone and anyone would leave for a "better opportunity" including you. And him.


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## PBear

His only addiction is to being a self centered dumbass. You need to stop making excuses for him and his behavior, because it doesn't matter WHY he's doing what he's doing, if he doesn't see it as being a problem and isn't interested in changing it.

Just my $0.02

C


----------



## curious_gal

Joel and Norajane so why with me for so long? Why have me so involved with family if I'm 2nd best?

He was cheated on to so I think he's afraid to lose me to someone else because he feels I'll be vindictive maybe and cheat on him to? 

I don't know and I'm really sorry. This is the only place I have support right now. I know I'm coming across as naive but I'm trying to put all of the pieces together.


----------



## Bandit

Regardless, there is something unhealthy in the relationship.. You guys need to meet your issues head on and sit and talk.. or go your separate ways.. but letting it stew in your head and working yourself into a frenzy on this site accomplishes nothing for your relationship.. Ask him, talk to him, drop an ultimatum for a grown up conversation etc.. but the problem is not gonna fix itself.


----------



## that_girl

curious_gal said:


> Joel and Norajane so why with me for so long? Why have me so involved with family if I'm 2nd best?
> 
> He was cheated on to so I think he's afraid to lose me to someone else because he feels I'll be vindictive maybe and cheat on him to?
> 
> I don't know and I'm really sorry. This is the only place I have support right now. I know I'm coming across as naive but I'm trying to put all of the pieces together.


I think he knows you wouldn't suspect he cheated because he groomed you to trust him.

He brings you around family because you're 'ideal' gf/wife material.

Just my opinion, of course.


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## curious_gal

And of course the minute that he senses me pulling away he's the best person ever. Like just called and wants to take me to lunch because I was cold and distant the last few days. So is he afraid to lose me? lol..

This situation is so bizarro!


----------



## that_girl

joelmacdad said:


> This changes the whole ball game. Everyone on this post I'm sure thought you were talking about your husband, not a boyfriend.
> 
> 
> There is something better for you out there. Cut ties, move on before the situation spins further and further out of control. You deserve better.


Yea, when I heard it's a bf, and not a husband, it makes it just easier to say DROP THIS JERK!


----------



## kittykat09

curious_gal said:


> Joel and Norajane so why with me for so long? Why have me so involved with family if I'm 2nd best?
> 
> He was cheated on to so I think he's afraid to lose me to someone else because he feels I'll be vindictive maybe and cheat on him to?
> 
> I don't know and I'm really sorry. This is the only place I have support right now. I know I'm coming across as naive but I'm trying to put all of the pieces together.


He is with you because you are convenient. You do his laundry for him and whatever else, you meet his non-sexual needs, you are a comfortable roommate... but he will always look to other women for sex. It doesn't matter that he was cheated on. In fact, it is possible he made that up in the first place. 

If he loved you, he wouldn't cheat on you. It is that simple. Words don't mean anything in relationships if they are not true.

For example...

I love you, curious_gal. From the moment you started posting, I knew we shared a bond. You are the most beautiful woman, and I don't even need to see you to know it because your personality is the most important thing. I want to love you and take care of you forever.

If you don't believe what I wrote because they are just words, why would you believe what your boyfriend is saying when he is actually *actively going out of his way to hurt you*?


----------



## curious_gal

Kitty Kat - I hear you. His wife did cheat on him. Her and I are very cool because of the kids. That was not a lie. Did he cheat on her though? Not sure. They both claim not.

He helps with laundry and helps clean and cook. I don't do it all. Still think roomate? lol


----------



## joelmacdad

I love what Bandit said about it being time for a grown up conversation. The whole thing is like a high school boyfriend/girlfriend relationship except you guys are living together, I think.

Time for maturity here.

I'm afraid that is all I have.


----------



## kittykat09

curious_gal said:


> Kitty Kat - I hear you. His wife did cheat on him. Her and I are very cool because of the kids. That was not a lie. Did he cheat on her though? Not sure. They both claim not.
> 
> He helps with laundry and helps clean and cook. I don't do it all. Still think roomate? lol


Ok, so she cheated on him and he supposedly didn't cheat on her. Makes no difference in your relationship where he is cheating and lying.

And he's cheating on you, so yes, you are a convenient roommate. There's obviously *something* he is getting out of staying in the relationship with you or he would just be single. 

Look, if you want to stay with the arsewipe then do it. It doesn't negatively impact me or anyone else on this board. But don't come here asking for advice and then ignore it just because you don't want it to be true. :scratchhead:


----------



## reset button

curious_gal said:


> Ok guys but could it be that he loves but has a love addiction? I'm finding it so hard to wrap my head around the time he's been with me. The fact that he's home with me always. I'm so close with his family, daughters.
> 
> *He may care for you but he loves himself more and is always looking out for his selfish interestes. If he loved you he would be truly remorseful and not hurt you more, be honest etc.. not grab you by the arm and throw you out just to end up with his ex overnight!!!*
> 
> Also, he's also very jealous and protective with other men. Syas I'm so beautiful and he is afraid when I go out because he knows I' get hit on all of the time, and there are better opportunities, etc. Why if he doesn't care or love me?
> 
> *He is feeling guilty because he knows he would be hitting on other attractive women if he was in their shoes so he thinks you are a potential "target" for these other men. He know if you find a nice guy you won't take him back. He views you as property, and he is marking his territory.*
> 
> Just trying to figure it out because he acts like he loves me so much sometimes. Making future plans to buy house, etc.


*You are his stability and back up plan , you boost his ego because you love him. He knows you will always be there no matter how bad he treats you as long as he can keep you under his spell*

Sorry to sound so harsh, my ex fiance told me all these same things it was same situation, he wants a maid and a piece when he can't find it elswwhere. It is so appauling to you that you don't want to believe it, but you need a wake up call. You make excuse after excuse for him without really EVER holding him accountable for his actions. He blames stuff on you and you let him.

He is using you and you don't deserve it, it is not your fault, you can't change it, but you cannot ignore it!!


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## curious_gal

Using me for what? Is there any way to turn this around? What is the 180 about? Shouldn't waste my time huh? Gosh, I guess I have some sort of pride right now in still thinking he'll change. Does he sound like someone who will never change for anyone?


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## kittykat09

curious_gal said:


> Using me for what? Is there any way to turn this around? What is the 180 about? Shouldn't waste my time huh? Gosh, I guess I have some sort of pride right now in still thinking he'll change. Does he sound like someone who will never change for anyone?


You probably meet some emotional needs and give him comfort of some kind. 

The only way to turn it around is for him to stop being a cad, but that is highly unlikely. He doesn't feel bad enough about it, he has a pattern, and he has gotten away with it. He probably doesn't even understand what "love" means to most people.

People like that don't change for anyone, that is why I have my doubts he didn't cheat on his ex-wife. You can't change someone who is ok with being broken, it just doesn't work. Someday he *may* wake up and realize what he is doing, but it isn't anything that you can make him do.

It isn't about you.  That's the worst part. You could be perfect in every way, and this guy would *still* be doing this to you. He has problems and you deserve to be treated with love and respect, things he clearly doesn't understand and is unable to give you. 

Take that pride you have and realize that you should be insulted that the guy thinks you are so stupid you would never find out and that he cares so little about you that he would do this.


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## reset button

curious_gal said:


> Using me for what? Is there any way to turn this around? What is the 180 about? Shouldn't waste my time huh? Gosh, I guess I have some sort of pride right now in still thinking he'll change. Does he sound like someone who will never change for anyone?


Using me for what?.... You make him feel loved, EVERYONE wants to be loved, even if they are selfish at giving love. Cheating makes him feel like a stud, like he is in charge.

The only way he will ever change is if HE thinks the way he is is a problem, there really is nothing you can do. He probably needs to go to Individual Counseling to work on his issues with how he views relationships.

As said by others, NOT your fault, he is a product of his past experiences and most likely will remain that way as long as he is getting his way.

As for pride, I wouldn't consider it pride, you love him and when you love someone you want to help them be the best person they can be. But, he has to want to be that too for it to happen. He is controllign you not loving you, he has to see that as a problem to change.

My sincere best wishes to you. Sadly, I know how you feel (from past fiance, not current hubby) it is hard to imagine life without him but it WILL get better, and once you meet the right person it will not only be better it will be AWESOME.


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## happyman64

Curious,
You really should not marry this guy. He as been treating you like crap for so long that you now doubt your own gut feelings.

He has been mentally and physically abusive to you. And you keep coming back for more.

Don't you want to be happy in life? Don't you want to love and trust someone and have that love and trust returned to you?

Don't you want to be respected by that person instead of feeling like a doormat?

Check the damn cell bill and move on out. Find a real mature, faithful man.

Look up the word codependent on google. Look up the word narcissist on google.

Then pack your bags and run like Forrest Gump and never look back.

Good Luck,
HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

When he senses you pulling away, he moves in to keep you there (because you're easy to cheat on and you still act like a "wife" ) but when you get close, he'll pull away again.

But I sense you don't want to leave him. So don't. But this is your life.


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## curious_gal

that_girl said:


> When he senses you pulling away, he moves in to keep you there (because you're easy to cheat on and you still act like a "wife" ) but when you get close, he'll pull away again.
> 
> But I sense you don't want to leave him. So don't. But this is your life.


I thank you all so much for your input. You have no idea how much you're helping. I'm wondering if I should check cell or just tell him to get lost. If just get lost how do I approach? Should I give him an ultimatum first? Or no chance?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

No ultimatums. He will just grab your arm and throw you out again.

Take your time. Make your plans and get out.

It is time to take care of you.

Just keep reminding yourself that you deserve better.

You are too young to be wasting your time on such a schmuck.

*Move on for you not him!*


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## FormerNiceGuy

curious_gal said:


> I thank you all so much for your input. You have no idea how much you're helping. I'm wondering if I should check cell or just tell him to get lost. If just get lost how do I approach? Should I give him an ultimatum first? Or no chance?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


CG - this isn't a strategy game, it is your life.

Sit down with the man and tell him you need complete honesty. Get all of this out in the open and then make an informed decision. If he can't be open, then you are finished.


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## COguy

Curious, the fact that you can't realize for yourself why you need to be out of this situation shows that you have some really deep seated personal demons that need to be resolved. Please see a counselor ASAP. Do not start another relationship before this.

Make yourself whole.


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## curious_gal

COguy said:


> Curious, the fact that you can't realize for yourself why you need to be out of this situation shows that you have some really deep seated personal demons that need to be resolved. Please see a counselor ASAP. Do not start another relationship before this.
> 
> Make yourself whole.


Good morning all - I'm aware that I need help and am starting the path to that on Monday. I think I'm a bit of a wreck because of how I got here . He's got me to the point where I dont know whether I'm coming or going. I am in such a tricky state of mind. Perhaps afraid to know the truth. I'm nervous because I'm 37 years old and am afraid to be alone. He makes me feel like I have issues and will never find anyone to marry me. As I mentioned before, he said that no one will grow with me because I'm so negative and wallow in mud. Um, hello?! How can I be happy when I let this man THINK that I believe his lies?! 

I have on many times have wanted to sit down and explain to him why I'm so negative and concerned. He has let me question him once in detail about when I caught him with her and that was right after I caught him. Since then I'm not allowed to bring it up without him flipping out on me. He said we talked, I have my answers and nothing happenend. That I'm wasting our time and brain sPace on fantasies that I make up in my head. I've begged him and said Please let me explain why I am the way I am. In detail all That has haPpened to get me to this thinking. I want a heart to heart and he won't. Says its pointless. So I've tried to have that adult conversation but it blows up in my face and he makes me feel bad. He says all I do is question him all day on where he Is, what he's doIng, etc. and he's tired of it. He comes hOme to me everyday and is good to me so I need to stop because I'm pushing him away. Jus makes me feel horrible and that's when I start thinking "maybe it is me that is Paranoid and crazy and need to stop".

So here I am...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

curious_gal, 
The fact that he helps with laundry, cleaning and cooking does not mean that there is not a roommate element to his view of your relationship. Roommates do things around the house.
I do not think that you are a roommate for to him. 

You most likely fill the role of ‘wife’ (without a ring) for him. He most likely does love you in the way he can love. Habitual cheaters do not love a person in the way you do. They are not capable of that kind of love. But you fill the role of someone who takes care of him. You are good arm candy. You are a good, solid woman to introduce to people like his family. You are apparently good ‘wife’ material. So you fill his need for normalcy and someone to love him.

Habitual cheaters are narcissists. They are all about themselves and what feels good to them. They are users and often very good con men/women as well. What you describe is a ‘broken’ man. There is something broken in him emotionally. He’s not going to change. What you see is what you get. He’s a master manipulator and you are caught in his web.

Look, the guy physically pushed you out of his place so that another woman could come stay with him for the night. How do you go back to a man who does that to you? The fact that he had another woman in the house for the night is not the first issue. The first issue is that he treated you like dirt… he PHYSICALLY THREW YOU OUT. And all you can see is the other woman and his excuses for why it was ok.

Look back through your relationship with him and look at the times he mistreated you. This includes physically throwing you out of the house, physical abuse, cheating and lying about it, now lying about his underwear. There are others, I have no doubt. Start focusing on how he treats you. One of these incidents is enough to justify leaving him. The good times do not matter.. they exist only because you willingly cover up the bad.


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## EleGirl

curious_gal said:


> I thank you all so much for your input. You have no idea how much you're helping. I'm wondering if I should check cell or just tell him to get lost. If just get lost how do I approach? Should I give him an ultimatum first? Or no chance?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Check his cell. You need as much evidence as possible to gather for yourself. It will make you stronger.

Then tell him to get lost.

I agree with the other poster, no ultimatums. He's been physcially abusive before. So no ultimatums. 

Just tell him to get lost. No chances. He's had a chance to do the right thing many times. Instead he chose to do the wrong thing.


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## curious_gal

Elegirl and everyone else, again, THANK YOU! 

Yesterday was a DAY. He went from Friday and Saturday to kissing my butt and being a total lover to yesterday giving me silent treatment. When I asked what was wrong he said "nothing, you're not talking either". I asked him why the mood swings? Why can't he just stay on a normal level of consistency with how he treats me? Again, he was fine.

So on the way to take his daughters home I asked him a question about Easter weekend and he got frustrated. Said that I ask to many questions. That after being together for almost 4 years I should know how he is thinking, etc. 

At that point I got upset and annoyed because that comment along with the silent treatment ticked me off. I told him he was a nasty spirit and soul and he's just a mean person. He said "if you ever say anything like that in front of my kids again I'll knock your teeth out". I was horrified. I said don't ever talk to me like that again and he said next time it'll be worse. Ok guys, I understand that I probably shouldn't have said that in front of the kids. They were playing in the back seat of car and music was on so I didn't even think of it. I felt bad. I never said anything to the level that he said it though. 

On the way home I told him that he had no respect for me, etc., etc. and he started arguing with me about my phone. I normally always have my phone on me wherever I go. When I leave a room it's always with me, etc. etc. I've always been that way. He said I had secrets and that I text all day. Um, I'm ALLOWED to text who and when I want. Doesn't mean there are "secrets". I told him to not ever compare me to his ex wife (cheater) and his ex that I caught him with again (she's a cheater too). I told him that I've been nothing but a good and honest loving woman to him and for him to think that I'm keeping secrets is bull! I told him I'm not that woman. That I'm not the one that had a "sleep over" with his ex and was texting and emailing women behind my back. He got mad that I brough it up and I said I'm just making a point. I'm telling you that I'm NOT like YOU so don't ever put me down in that category again.

He was upset and we didn't talk for the rest of the night.

All of this is crazy to me. How he flips out. I know he has anger issues but to instill fear in me because he's gotten physical before makes things really bad.

Elegirl and everyone - I know you said to check the cell records and I am. I'm not ready to this week though. It's my daughters 18th birthday this week and Easter and I don't want my world crashing down on me and my mood ruining it for her or anyone else that I love.

I go to see my therapist tonight. I'm really looking forward to it. I wish I could see her more than once a week though. It seems like I'm going to need major MAJOR therapy because of who I've become.

I told him that I don't even know who I am anymore because of him and he says that he's not the cause of my issues. Everytime things have gotten overly violent whether an argument or anything else he always says that I'm not the victim. That I've brought it all on myself. He doesn't even think that what he has done is wrong. My questions, etc. and bad things that sometimes come out of my mouth in anger and reaction to him throw him in a crazy state but it's all my fault. I'm not the victim. I'm sorry, I don't care what someone says to you. A man should never resort to being physical in any way. That's not how you approach things.

I'm starting to really believe he's a total narcissist.


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## sandc

Sorry but this guy sounds dangerously unstable. If he has gotten "physical" in the past (whatever that means), then you can be sure he'll do it again. Make sure you know where the nearest women's shelter is. Be very careful here.


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## reset button

I agree, please be careful. when you are ready to discuss things again make sure a trusted friend knows you are having trouble so they can check on you.
Also, if you decide to confront him, have a safe place available for you to stay at for a few days should you need to leave with kids immediately.


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## sinnister

Okay...now that I have more facts I've completely changed my mind.

Dude is a cheat and downright bad person.

Knock your teeth out? I have a special kind of "love" for men like this. Jerk.

Leave this guy. There is no reason to stay in this relationship. There are so many men out there that are loyal, loving and honorable literally searching the globe for a good woman. And you're taken by a *********io.

Cut your loses. Leave the boy and find a man.


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## canttrustu

that_girl said:


> Well, your husband blew up over something stupid and left the house.
> 
> That's a sign of an affair as well.
> 
> Why would he do that? Over underwear? yea, he's hiding something


When my H was having an EA and I confronted him he had pretty much the SAME reaction.....turns out I was right on!! This is a dead give away.
However he did NOT threaten me w/violence. DEALBREAKER.


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## humanbecoming

My older sister was living with a guy like this. When she finally had enough, she had a friend go with her to help her get her stuff out. The guy shot the friend, then my sister. She made it out of the house and halfway down the block, with him following her and shooting her again and again. 

Don't screw with a guy like this, just leave.


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## Eli-Zor

Say little and take action. Lawyer up , tell the lawyer what he said , move out of the house and prepare for life without him. Today he threatens you tomorrow what will he do? Carry out his threat!

Your words reflect what he is and his response verifies your words.

Dump him fast.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nadine

hey.. hey..
maybe you are thinkin too quick and too far
it could be some lotion or cream he applies for some discomfort down there. why don you just pop the question to him casually as to wat these stains could be maybe while doin the laundry. there's a very good chance that he may answer it


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## curious_gal

Nadine - Not sure if you've read the other posts but I can't ask him. I asked him last week and he stormed off..


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## curious_gal

Morning again everyone – I hear what all of you are saying. I’m taking steps to move on starting with therapy because for some reason I’m not strong enough.

Yesterday we got into an argument and he made me feel horrible. I NEVER go out. I think I went out twice with my best friend in the last four years since we’ve been together. I told you he’s jealous and always says that guys are going to hit on me and I’ll see that there are better options so he’s never comfortable when I go out so to avoid drama with him I just don’t go out at all. 

Anyway, one of my great friends is getting married in a few weeks and I’m SO looking forward to it. I’m just looking forward to getting dressed up and dancing, seeing old friends, etc. Well, I told my boyfriend that I need to teach him to Spanish dance so he can dance with me at the wedding (I’m Spanish and he’s white). I said if not then I’m sure I can get a couple of dances in with friends. He got SOOOOO upset. Said that he doesn’t want to think about me dancing with some other guy. I told him they are friends and I’m saying IF that even happens. I mentioned one friend that would probably want to dance because his wife doesn’t like to and he lost it on me saying that I’m giving examples of things I want to do with other men before the wedding is even here and he doesn’t want to be the guy at the bar while his girl is dancing with another man. So he said he’s not going now. How crazy is that?!?!?

IF I were to dance it’s because he doesn’t want to and it’s ONLY a dance. Nothing else. I’ve NEVER had an issue with a man get jealous over something like that. He made me feel so bad like I did something wrong. Totally ignored me the rest of the night and withheld sex. When I asked why withholding sex he said because I turned him off with my mouth.

I didn’t even say anything that bad! Or bad at all! Do you see how he is?!? He can have damn sleep overs with ex’s and whatever else and I say I may dance at a friends wedding and that I’m excited because I have no life and get out and he threatens me that he’s not going! So am I supposed to go without a date? It’s like he wants me to live a sheltered life.

Why is he doing this? Where is the jealousy from and why if he’s doing his own thing on the side? I just don’t get it. What goes on in the mind of this man? :scratchhead:

Did I say or do something wrong?

Why jealous, controlling, etc.?


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## pidge70

It's called projection. He knows he is untrustworthy so he assumes you are too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhereAmI

Yes, go without a date. Tell him you'll be attending whether he decides to go or not. Don't make it sound like a threat or some childish game. Just state it as a fact and follow through. I know you're not ready to walk away yet, but you need to have healthy boundaries. Don't let him hold you back any longer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curious_gal

Thanks! I know if I go without him he'll flip out because then he'll THINK that I'm doing worse because he's not there, ya know? 

It's just not fair. Why does he try to hold me down? Not let me live and have fun? Enjoy myself?

He's allowed to go out with his friends. I don't hold him back!


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## iheartlife

curious_gal said:


> Thanks! I know if I go without him he'll flip out because then he'll THINK that I'm doing worse because he's not there, ya know?
> 
> It's just not fair. Why does he try to hold me down? Not let me live and have fun? Enjoy myself?
> 
> He's allowed to go out with his friends. I don't hold him back!


Listen, threats of serious physical violence + isolating behaviors = abuse. Is this really someone you WANT to be with? You should never be afraid of the person you love--they are the ones who are supposed to be your greatest shelter, not your worst danger.


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## COguy

Curious, don't take this the wrong way, but you need to get help ASAP.

Someone is threatening to be violent with you, while lying and cheating on you, you're not even married, and you're mad at him for withholding sex from you??????

Why in god's name would you want to have sex with this man? You should be putting a restraining order on him.


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## WhereAmI

curious_gal said:


> Thanks!* I know if I go without him he'll flip out because then he'll THINK that I'm doing worse because he's not there, ya know? *
> 
> It's just not fair. Why does he try to hold me down? Not let me live and have fun? Enjoy myself?
> 
> He's allowed to go out with his friends. I don't hold him back!


And if you don't go he'll find something else to flip out about. This man is abusive and it won't stop without some serious help. You need to rejoin the rest of the world. You are in an abusive relationship and need support. You will need the same support when you decide to walk away from this sorry excuse of a man. 

He has taught you that you are responsible for his emotions. You are NOT. He can choose to stay home and worry about what you're up to or he can go with you. You are giving him the choice! You aren't responsible for the emotions he feels due to *his* choice. Look into codependency. 

I know it's far easier for me to talk about the things you should do compared to you actually doing them. I understand you feel confused and trapped right now, but I hope you can find the strength to make a few changes. Hopefully those changes will snowball and you'll find yourself strong enough to move on before it's too late.


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## vi_bride04

There is no place in any relationship for abuse. Physical, mental or verbal. 

If you stay, you are condeming yourself to a life of unnecessary pain filled with resentment and bitterness. My mom stayed too long with my abusive father and now has no one in her life to love her b/c of her bitterness. She finally got away from my dad, but the damage was already done. Don't become that bitter old woman, and be a strong person for the kids. I totally blame my mom for not leaving my dad sooner. And if she did leave him sooner, maybe there would have been hope for me and my siblings to not be so screwed up when it came to intimate relationships.

You may think you are doing good for the kids by staying, but you are not. They see everything. They will get to the age when they know what is going on, and they will realize that their mom was too weak to leave. Then they will wonder and question if it was their fault that you stayed with such an abusive person...if you stayed b/c of them...then they will have deeper issues of committment and self hate thinking they were the cause of you staying in a horrible relationship.

As a the oldest child of a mother who was in an abusive marriage for 15 years, I see the damage it causes. Not only to me and my relationships, but to my younger siblings who really weren't old enough to understand at the time what was going on. They may not have completely understood, but the damage was still done to their psyche. 

*edited* It looks like he has kids but you two do not? Still, there are kids around and involved and they look to you as a parental figure. Don't let them down...


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## neglected

Wow, I'm not sure why you are so scared to check the phone? A little over a month ago I discovered my husband of 12+ years was essentially living a double life. He's been hanging out in the bars with his friend (a guy) while I thought he was at work. He worked evenings/nights so I was asleep before he came home. He had other facebook page to "friend" these people they hang out with.

I uncovered every password I could and started snooping. Not knowing and imagining is worse. He won't admit to anything and so I know I'm probably imagining worse than it really is. 

Like you, I wonder why does he want to stay? Maybe because it's easier? They don't want us with anyone else either? We have two kids so maybe that's part? 

I was allowing him to have it both ways. The day I discovered the facebook page I kicked him out. It's hard to think of being alone, like you I'm dependent on him. I've been with him since I was 18, but everyday has got easier since he's been gone. 

Like your husband, he would blow up or become silent of I ever mentioned his single guy friend. I just blew it off. 

Be careful though. My husband is not violent, but the fights got increasingly worse toward the end. 

I do believe though he will NEVER change if you don't get out. He'll just become better at hiding it. 

You deserve better and I'm right there in the pit with you so I know how you feel. You think your world won't go on, but it will. 

You can pray for him from a distance and pray that he will change and be the man you want. 

Good luck.


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## sandc

You said this is your boyfriend? Then he has no claim on you other than what you allow him. He sounds mentally unstable to me. I agree with others who are saying that he is projecting his cheating heart upon you. You are a fun, loving, happy, sexy Spanish lady. I imagine you would be in high demand. You can do better. You need to leave him and do better. There's plenty of non-jealous men out there. Time to live "la buena vida!"


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## Remains

He turns things round to make them all your fault. He gets angry, abusive, and defensive when u try to speak with him...therefore, it means that you don't question him, he can now do what he likes, and all problems are yours therefore he is infallible...and great, and good etc.

He doesn't like you going out, it causes a scene if u want to, he will get upset because you MAY get hit on by other men. You now never go out. You hit the nail on the head when u said is he trying to keep you sheltered....You now have no support network, are cut off from all your friends, and are now the 'good wife's at home. You are cut off, and therefore he has u trapped, secure. He has complete control over you. 

He doesn't want you to go out because he KNOWS you WILL EASILY find someone better than him, because he knows he is not a good catch. His behaviour comes from a place of deapseated insecurity and possibly total lack of self. There4 he has to force someone to stay with him because if he did not, they would leave. All very subtle, he is not aware of this himself, it is just his 'manly' reactions to his emotional needs and insecurities. He is immature, he is a child, and he will not ever change. Don't ever think he will.

As for the dance at the wedding, I guarantee if u say u are going whether likes it or not, he will be right there with you. If you dare to dance with another man he will silently seethe, and the moment u get away and on your way home he will blow his top. You will get huge accusations of how dare you, you have made me a laughing stock, you dance with another man right in front of me and make a fool of me. All your behaviour will be construed as attacking his sense of manhood, attacking his male pride, and to do that in front if others will be the most sinful thing u ever have done. I would be very very careful about following through with that if I was you. Not because you don't have a right to dance and have a good time, but because if anything will drive him to 'knock your teeth out', or worse, that will. 

And all of this, while he can go out when he likes, with who he likes, and f*ck around as much as he likes. Of course he can. He has you in control, exactly where he wants you. And if you start getting a little confident, he will knock you down again and charm you back in again. Another step in the right direction of keeping you exactly where he wants you.

You are slowly wising up while being on this site, do not show your hands to him. You know enough about his behaviour, if u cannot leave him now just gather evidence in order to strengthen yourself so you can leave. Make quiet plans and put things in place so that when the time comes you can get out. I wouldn't even bother telling him, or trying to talk with him. If u try to chat to sort, he will try to talk u round. Fill you with lies and charm. If you chat and intend to leave, he will probably get massively angry, another huge affront to his maleness, and who knows what he might do. Leave him a letter. That is your best bet. And inform him that you have informed people/police that if you get hurt, it will be him that has done it.


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## curious_gal

Remains said:


> He turns things round to make them all your fault. He gets angry, abusive, and defensive when u try to speak with him...therefore, it means that you don't question him, he can now do what he likes, and all problems are yours therefore he is infallible...and great, and good etc.
> 
> He doesn't like you going out, it causes a scene if u want to, he will get upset because you MAY get hit on by other men. You now never go out. You hit the nail on the head when u said is he trying to keep you sheltered....You now have no support network, are cut off from all your friends, and are now the 'good wife's at home. You are cut off, and therefore he has u trapped, secure. He has complete control over you.
> 
> He doesn't want you to go out because he KNOWS you WILL EASILY find someone better than him, because he knows he is not a good catch. His behaviour comes from a place of deapseated insecurity and possibly total lack of self. There4 he has to force someone to stay with him because if he did not, they would leave. All very subtle, he is not aware of this himself, it is just his 'manly' reactions to his emotional needs and insecurities. He is immature, he is a child, and he will not ever change. Don't ever think he will.
> 
> As for the dance at the wedding, I guarantee if u say u are going whether likes it or not, he will be right there with you. If you dare to dance with another man he will silently seethe, and the moment u get away and on your way home he will blow his top. You will get huge accusations of how dare you, you have made me a laughing stock, you dance with another man right in front of me and make a fool of me. All your behaviour will be construed as attacking his sense of manhood, attacking his male pride, and to do that in front if others will be the most sinful thing u ever have done. I would be very very careful about following through with that if I was you. Not because you don't have a right to dance and have a good time, but because if anything will drive him to 'knock your teeth out', or worse, that will.
> 
> And all of this, while he can go out when he likes, with who he likes, and f*ck around as much as he likes. Of course he can. He has you in control, exactly where he wants you. And if you start getting a little confident, he will knock you down again and charm you back in again. Another step in the right direction of keeping you exactly where he wants you.
> 
> You are slowly wising up while being on this site, do not show your hands to him. You know enough about his behaviour, if u cannot leave him now just gather evidence in order to strengthen yourself so you can leave. Make quiet plans and put things in place so that when the time comes you can get out. I wouldn't even bother telling him, or trying to talk with him. If u try to chat to sort, he will try to talk u round. Fill you with lies and charm. If you chat and intend to leave, he will probably get massively angry, another huge affront to his maleness, and who knows what he might do. Leave him a letter. That is your best bet. And inform him that you have informed people/police that if you get hurt, it will be him that has done it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curious_gal

Thank you all for the advice and support. I'm so happy to have found this forum. As I told my therapist on Monday, I'm aware of all that's going on and how this mans mind works. I feel stuck. Beyond afraid of being without him. I'm all alone today as he's out of town and my daughter is out for her birthday and I'm so overwhelmed with the feelings of sadness and loneliness. I'm realizing I really have no one other than him and I'm going to be so lonely without him. I don't even know how to have friends anymore. I'm just sad. I'm so in love with him. When he's good he's soooo good but when bad...we'll, you know. I need strength to move on. I've been praying for years and nothing. I know I'll get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains

You are a big girl. And I bet u have been through much worse than leaving a man who is bad for you. Get stuff in place to move out. Even if you don't do it, have it all there in place so you know what to do when you finally get to the end of the road. Do you work? Is there anyone you can go to until u find a place of your own? If not, find a housing agency, your means to a house, look into it and start putting in place. Please!


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## curious_gal

Remains said:


> You are a big girl. And I bet u have been through much worse than leaving a man who is bad for you. Get stuff in place to move out. Even if you don't do it, have it all there in place so you know what to do when you finally get to the end of the road. Do you work? Is there anyone you can go to until u find a place of your own? If not, find a housing agency, your means to a house, look into it and start putting in place. Please!


HOnestly have never had to leave a man like this. It's my apartment and everything here is mine. I'm just at a very sad place. Am 37 years old and feel worthless. Taken advantage of, crazy, etc. I just want to be confident, secure and happy again. Don't want to be afraid of losing someone who I know is bad for me. I'm terrified of being alone. I'll miss him more than anything. It's very hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

I am so glad you are in IC.

You can do so much better. Think of all the fun you are missing out on--all the isolating he has done, taking you away from things you enjoy, people you care about. Trampling on your self esteem--and if you let him, you won't have any left. You will never be lonelier than you are right now, in this "relationship" with him. Remember that when you are feeling weak.

Another suggestion if I may: if you do decide to leave him, don't jump into another relationship right away. Get to know yourself and love yourself again first. I really mean this: it is better to live and die an entire life alone than to be with someone so selfish.


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## curious_gal

iheartlife said:


> I am so glad you are in IC.
> 
> You can do so much better. Think of all the fun you are missing out on--all the isolating he has done, taking you away from things you enjoy, people you care about. Trampling on your self esteem--and if you let him, you won't have any left. You will never be lonelier than you are right now, in this "relationship" with him. Remember that when you are feeling weak.
> 
> Another suggestion if I may: if you do decide to leave him, don't jump into another relationship right away. Get to know yourself and love yourself again first. I really mean this: it is better to live and die an entire life alone than to be with someone so selfish.


I think Of all the fun I'm missing out On but have no one to have fun with. 

I'm also having a bad sleepless night. He's out of town with family for easter (about 2 1/2 hours away). I normally go with him but this time stayed back because daughters birthday and Easter tomorrow. Although my daughter went out and did her own thing today I figured I wanted to be around. Anyway, today I said maybe I'll go with you and his response wasn't what I normally would have expected. He's always more welcoming but today seemed annoyed. Just said "ok" and said " I could the help with taking care of mom so it won't be fun for you" I said it seems you're trying to deter me from going for some reason so never mind. He said he's not trying to deter but why am I changing plans last minute. That I should have Packed a bag this morning. I told him I just realized that I was going to be home alone so why not just go? But that he obviously doesn't want me to go for some reason. He said that me saying that was offensive. I said never mind. He didn't bring me up going and didn't ask. Just kissed me and left. 

I did notice that he packed two pairs of underwear. Not sure why cause only one night. 

Now I know he was with family because I talked to him at 11:00. He was going to hang with a good friend and said he'd call or text later. Asked if I was goin to bed. I said no but he didn't have to worry about calling and he said "no, I will" and I said ok then. Call and check in. 3:00 in the morning and nothing.

My stomach has been in knots because I'm wondering if he didn't want me to go because he had Plans of hooking up with o/w? I mean, is that possible and how affairs work? Like she would drive to where she is to see him and they stay at hotel for night? 

He normally has brunch At sisters house Sunday morning and always calls so is it possible o/w would drive that bit of a ways for a few hours to then leave?
I hate that he he has little respect for sticking to what he says he's going to do when he knows I wonder and dont trust? I've asked him nicely to not disappear cause it makes me uncomfortable. 

I know that it could be nothing and I'm Paranoid and maybe he got drunk and passed out but I have a knot in my stomach and I'm panicking. Can't sleep. I just feel like something bad is happening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curious_gal

curious_gal said:


> I think Of all the fun I'm missing out On but have no one to have fun with.
> 
> I'm also having a bad sleepless night. He's out of town with family for easter (about 2 1/2 hours away). I normally go with him but this time stayed back because daughters birthday and Easter tomorrow. Although my daughter went out and did her own thing today I figured I wanted to be around. Anyway, today I said maybe I'll go with you and his response wasn't what I normally would have expected. He's always more welcoming but today seemed annoyed. Just said "ok" and said " I could the help with taking care of mom so it won't be fun for you" I said it seems you're trying to deter me from going for some reason so never mind. He said he's not trying to deter but why am I changing plans last minute. That I should have Packed a bag this morning. I told him I just realized that I was going to be home alone so why not just go? But that he obviously doesn't want me to go for some reason. He said that me saying that was offensive. I said never mind. He didn't bring me up going and didn't ask. Just kissed me and left.
> 
> I did notice that he packed two pairs of underwear. Not sure why cause only one night.
> 
> Now I know he was with family because I talked to him at 11:00. He was going to hang with a good friend and said he'd call or text later. Asked if I was goin to bed. I said no but he didn't have to worry about calling and he said "no, I will" and I said ok then. Call and check in. 3:00 in the morning and nothing.
> 
> My stomach has been in knots because I'm wondering if he didn't want me to go because he had Plans of hooking up with o/w? I mean, is that possible and how affairs work? Like she would drive to where she is to see him and they stay at hotel for night?
> 
> He normally has brunch At sisters house Sunday morning and always calls so is it possible o/w would drive that bit of a ways for a few hours to then leave?
> I hate that he he has little respect for sticking to what he says he's going to do when he knows I wonder and dont trust? I've asked him nicely to not disappear cause it makes me uncomfortable.
> 
> I know that it could be nothing and I'm Paranoid and maybe he got drunk and passed out but I have a knot in my stomach and I'm panicking. Can't sleep. I just feel like something bad is happening.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Update: I just called and spoke with him. He's out at an old friends house and they are partying. There are girls in background but I need to not assume they are o/w. I don't think he'd take her to his families, right? I'm very close with his sisters and I don't see them allowing that. I hate being this paranoid. I just want to be a normal confident girl in a normal relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curious_gal

Hi everyone - I haven't heard back so thought I'd update on where I'm at:

My stomach has been in knots since yesterday morning because I didn’t hear from him yesterday until 2:00 and I normally hear from him before then. I called his sisters and she said that he was out with his nephew but when he finally texted me at 2:00 he said he was just waking up and that he was at his friends that he partied at. Why would his sister lie and cover for him? With that I'm wondering if he didn't want me to go because he had Plans of hooking up with o/w? I mean, is that possible and how affairs work? Like she would drive to where she is to see him and they stay at hotel for night? 

I know that it could be nothing and I'm Paranoid and maybe he got drunk and passed out (which is what he said happened) but I have a knot in my stomach and I'm panicking. 

His sister does know everything that has happened between us so maybe she wanted to protect us so we didn’t fight. I don’t know. I just hate feeling so paranoid.

P.S. I did ask him why his sister would lie and cover and he said he didn’t know but that she was obviously covering for him. I feel like I can trust no one.

P.S.S. I was crying hysterically all Sunday morning until I heard from him. Do you see how I go into major panic mode and assume the worst? It’s a horrible feeling.


I just am so parnoid and don't know how to stop. If I change and give him freedom and stop questioning and ACT confident will it change? I just don't want to walk away with him ever feeling that I was crazy.


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## Eli-Zor

He knows your so desperate to be with him he can do as he likes. He is not accountable to you nor does he care. Not to be rude to you but the only person on fantasy island is you. One would think that after his little "I'll knock your teeth out" comment you would have packed up and left .

Go to IC pronto I seriously think you have to regain your self respect before you humiliate yourself even more or he carries out his threat. You cannot change him , he does not want to change, why should he?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curious_gal

Thanks Eli-Zor..how do we get him to change? Me turning into a different person? Stronger and more confident?

Was is the 180?


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## happyman64

Curious Gal,

Why do you want to stay with him? All he is doing is making you crazy! And you are letting him!!!

If you keep this up you will be in deep therapy.

Detach from him. Pack his stuff and show him the door.

You deserve better. Do it while you are still young.

HM64


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## PBear

The only person you can change is yourself. That may cause a change in him, but that isn't the point.

Seriously. Get help for yourself. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

curious_gal said:


> Thanks Eli-Zor..how do we get him to change? Me turning into a different person? Stronger and more confident?
> 
> Was is the 180?


The 180 helps but in your case an effective kick him out and go dark may, it's a big may, cause him to have epiphany . You should be focusing on your life , one day when he learns what he is missing you might choose to date him . By then one hopes you have met a decent guy who loves and respects you for who you are.

I suspect he won't change, ever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## curious_gal

He seems like a narcissist...a crazy one...


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## EleGirl

curious_gal said:


> He seems like a narcissist...a crazy one...


So what are you going to do now?


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## curious_gal

Good morning everyone – I need advice please. My boyfriend sent me an email of some training session he is supposed to be attending for work tomorrow. Being the “detective” that I am I checked it out and did a search by zip code to see if the event was being hosted in his area and it’s not listed. I also called the place where it’s supposed to be hosted and the lady I spoke with said she knew nothing of it but she had to confirm with someone when they got into the office.

Now I know it’s scheduled for tomorrow so maybe the company hasn’t had a chance to register it yet but I’m sort of nauseous and wondering how I can find out if he’s lying. I suppose I could drive by there tomorrow as I know where it’s “supposed” to be held. Do you think I should? I’m just so afraid to find out that he’s been lying.

Is that a bad idea? Maybe I should ask him again? Say that I’m going to be in the area around the same time, maybe we could meet up for a drink? To see how he responds? 

Bad idea? Why would he send me the “link” to where he’s supposed to be if he’s not going to be there? I feel like I’m being paranoid. EXTRA paranoid.


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## that_girl

I would just go. He's your live-in boyfriend, not some guy you're stalking. If he's lying, catch him in it. 

The place should know if there is a seminar going on..

Then when you catch him, you can move on from this mess. seriously.


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## curious_gal

Oh I hear ya. I'm so afraid though.

The lady that I spoke with said that she had to double check on it. 

Why am I so scared?

Probably because I have no friends and no support system. I'm going to be so lonely.


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## that_girl

You're scared because you'd rather live in this hell than know the truth. Fact is, you already know the truth, you just don't want to believe. Just go to that place. Just go and ask for the seminar and see what happens. End this nonsense.


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## curious_gal

So I just confirmed that the seminar is happening next Wednesday. I just asked him and he said it's tomorrow. I said I checked online and it showed next Wednesday and he said he'd call the guy heading it up and check.

I feel bad for doubting him but I don’t know how to get better. Like I know he thinks I'm crazy. I don't trust. I know that he could have just misunderstood when it's being held.

Like I sometimes feel that I’m just being paranoid, etc. etc. Like obsessive paranoid. How do I get better on this? Any good reads? Should I get on medication? I don’t want to get on anything unnatural. Maybe you all have recommendations on vitamins and natural herbal supplements? I just want to feel better. I feel like once I stop being paranoid and obsessing that I’ll feel stronger to leave him and move on. I’m too afraid.


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## Just Tired Of It All

curious_gal said:


> Oh I hear ya. I'm so afraid though.
> 
> The lady that I spoke with said that she had to double check on it.
> 
> Why am I so scared?
> 
> Probably because I have no friends and no support system. I'm going to be so lonely.


YOU HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER!!!!! YOU ARE NOT ALONE... 
to be honest with you, and please take my word to heart you have to stop and think about her for a minute. Do you want to continue to be put thru this and allow your daughter to witness this, is this what you want her to THINK is appropriate behavior for a man to treat a women.. is this the type a man you would want your daughter to end up with.. NO!!

So find the strength and let him go, will it change him? Who knows, but you do not want your daughter to think this is "just how men are".. this is not how REAL MEN ARE!!


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## Eli-Zor

Run the 180, think the 180 , let the 180 become a habit and your life will change for the better.

A good example in the post below:





Affaircare said:


> Hey DownUnder~
> 
> I'm not sure if you've ever really, REALLY read the 180 list, and if not, just to be very clear, there is a link in my signature. It has the list right there in black and white, and reading it may be helpful for you.
> 
> In a summary though, the 180 is like making a 180 degree turn with your life. In case you didn't know--180 degrees means to make an "about face" and go in exactly the opposite direction! Usually the idea is like this: if you depended on your husband to "make" you happy and if he was "your world"...well look where that got you! You aren't able to live without him, you want to beg him to love you, and he's cheating!!!!
> 
> Sooooo... if it wasn't working for you, doing more of the same is going to get you more of the same. Do you want to continue begging someone to love you and continue having your heart crushed? Then that means YOU are going to have to change. So do the opposite of what you've been doing and let's see how that works.
> 
> Now, if you look at the 180 list closely, you'll notice that nowhere does it say to ignore each other. In fact there are some very specific things for you to do... like #13 says to look FABULOUS!! Next time he's coming over in the morning, look AMAZING and act as if you are rushing off to a coffee date. He doesn't need to know that you're going to coffee by yourself next door to work. Work it! When he's trying to come over so he can avoid you, just call out: "Oh thank you goodness you're here--I'm running late and just have to fly. Don't you just love how I look in this outfit? I think I will look awesome. Okay see ya bye!" and run out the door. That will also cover #12 and #14. In fact, for #14, join a women's support group--like DivorceCare or something at church--and then next time he acts like he's coming by to "ignore" you ask him: "Could you have the kids Thursday night and take them to school Friday morning? I have an event and I think it's going to run pretty late." He doesn't need to know it's all women! Or that it will be done at 9:30 followed by cookies and talking. Go out with the ladies to have coffee and pie afterward!
> 
> _{Edited to Add: This isn't meant to be a game or like you are deliberately trying to lie to him, but rather just to give him a taste of the "YOU" that you used to be when you were a free, vibrant, smart, beautiful, loving woman back in the day when you guys met...and to politely remind him that if he chooses to leave you, he no longer will be in control of you, who you're with, what you do, or even if you wear shoes in the living room! Lots of times people have their affair and think they'll be able to have their cake and eat it too--boss around their affair partner and also keep telling their spouse what to do! So I'm not advocating lying or deceiving here--I'm advocating letting him realize he can't tell you when or where to go...and I'm advocating ALWAYS looking like you are about to step out and meet George Clooney for a romantic wining and dining evening.}_
> 
> See #18? You aren't supposed to be childish or giving him the cold shoulder. Nope the cold shoulder is just trying to force him to behave a certain way by rewarding him or punishing him. #18 is more like this: "You know, I've realized that I really LIKE drinking grapejuice on the white carpet and now that you've moved out I can, so I'm actually okay with this. In fact I'm a little happy! I really like being in charge of my own life and not having to answer to anyone by myself!"
> 
> See #23-#26? Here's what that means. So after a couple days of YOU not being around for him to "ignore"...and after a couple days of you seeming to be happy and adjusting to the fact that he's not in charge of you anymore...and after a couple times of you being out on your own and he can't say "boo" about it.... one of these days he's going to say something like *"You know, I never, EVER felt like you loved me or gave a sh*t about me. All you cared about was money and your girlfriends!"*...something like that to goad you into a fight. The idea is that if he can get you to fight him, he can scream and yell, and then say to himself "See that's why I had an affair! She's crazy!" So instead of saying "NUH UH You're wrong!!!" you say "Hmmm...it sounds like you did not feel cared for and maybe like you thought I used you for your money. I bet that hurt to think that. Of course that is your opinion and mine just differs, but thanks for sharing your thoughts with me" * and turn and walk away!*
> 
> Hear that sound? Yeah me either. That's the wind blowing out of his sails! He's got nothing to fight with there! And you just mastered some more of the 180!!
> 
> So read that list. Re-read it. Read it again. Now write it down in your journal. Next to each one, write how you can do that one in your life. If you get stuck on one, come here and tell us which one you're stuck on, and we'll help ya! :smthumbup:


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

Have you checked his phone records yet? And as an FYI, his car not being there or not wouldn't be proof of anything. He might get a ride with a co-workers, might have parked somewhere you didn't happen to see... Or if his car IS there, he could just be shacked up in a hotel room after leaving his car there and driving off with someone.

What are you two doing to work through your issues? Are you doing counseling? Self-help books? Or just trying to ignore the issues and hope they go away?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains

This post seems odd to me. It doesn't seem real.


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## curious_gal

Remains, why would you say that this post doesn't seem real. My situation and what I'm going through is very real. Your comment makes me feel even better about it all,


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## all4her

Look i havent read this whole over hyped saga but his stains sound like a Pilonidal cyst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 


Not uncommon for lots of men to have it, I have it and i get stains like that when it pusses over, also it gushes blood. Im not ashamed to tell my gf but he probably is. I kept it from her for a while until the jig was up.


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## EleGirl

all4her said:


> Look i havent read this whole over hyped saga but his stains sound like a Pilonidal cyst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> Not uncommon for lots of men to have it, I have it and i get stains like that when it pusses over, also it gushes blood. Im not ashamed to tell my gf but he probably is. I kept it from her for a while until the jig was up.


She said that she looked for anything like that but there was nothing.


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## warlock07

Pink, start a new thread and repost it there.


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