# DH Too Tough on Toddler



## EAP14 (Nov 4, 2015)

Hi, everyone. I'm having a hard time with how my husband deals with our 17 month old son. I feel he's much too hard on him and it's causing a riff in our marriage.

Scenario: Toddler gets into something he shouldn't (video games, drawers, etc).
Husband: Loud "NO!" and a smack on the hand, arm, bottom.
Toddler: Typical toddler reaction. Mad, starts crying, etc.
Husband: Now yelling at toddler for being a bad boy and picks him up.
Toddler: Too mad to want to be held, screams and tries to get away while still crying
Husband: Refuses to put down toddler, yells at him to stop crying, might give him another smack or two and says he's going to hold him no matter what

Naturally, our son now wants Mom (me). Depending on the situation (cooking dinner, etc), I'm within sight, which makes it harder for my son because he just wants me. When I DO step out, he still wants down and away from my husband, who somehow takes offense to this. All I hear in the distance is uncontrollable sobbing with my husband occasionally yelling "STOP IT!" to him, while still calling him a bad boy. 

Eventually, after what can turn to be up to a half hour or longer, my husband puts him down and is angry and stressed, talking about how he's going to be a spoiled brat because of me. Other times, I'll go in and distract my son to help him calm down, eventually taking him.

From this, my husband accuses me of "saving him" from dad, and how our son is going to have behavior problems because of it. He also accuses me of how I'm not strict enough and how I don't discipline at all. 

Of course I discipline. But I believe my husband has a very wrong idea of what discipline is. In my situation, if my son gets into something he shouldn't, or throws a fit because he doesn't want to leave a certain place, or whatever may cause the meltdown, I understand he's doing what a healthy baby does at that age- and instead of yelling at him and punishing him for having a meltdown, I distract him to get his mind off of it. Whether we physically play (I tickle him, kiss him), have him help me clean up his mess, or give him a different toy, etc., I still don't let him have what he wants. And yes, I will give him a firm "no" when he's into something he shouldn't. Every now and then I might give him a light smack on the bottom.

The problem is, my husband is at work all day, so he doesn't see how I interact with our boy. He assumes I let him do whatever he wants and I always let him get his way. This is not the case. Just because I don't react the way he does, he thinks I spoil him. And yes, I am more flexible than him because he's 17 months! So what if I DO spoil him a little at times? He needs to explore his environment (safely), and learn from his own actions (again, safely). Toddlers can learn without the firm, mean, controlling approach. In fact, I try and explain to my husband trying to control our son and "force" him to behave is not going to work very well. Only push him away.

Anyway, I really don't know what to do at this point. No matter how I bring up the situation, he takes any sort of advice as an insult and refuses to listen. I try the "I" approach when talking to him. I try and pick times we're getting along great to bring it up. I just can't seem to talk to him or get any message across. 

Let me add, I worked as a behavior interventionist with kids for years (stay at home now). Kids with REAL behavioral problems. Kids and teenagers from rough backgrounds. Kids and teens (and even some adults) with disabilities, whether mild or severe. Maybe he feels threatened when I try and give suggestions? 

Okay, that was long. Any advice? Suggestions? Thank you.


----------



## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

At that age distraction works best coupled with time outs which should be 1 minute per year of age.

My ex was like that but couldn't be reasoned with so i eventually left. If your H will listen and isn't abusive, then I suggest buying the book Caring for Your Baby and Young Child by the American Academy of Pediatrics. My mom (a nurse) gave me a copy and her practice gave these out free to all expecting mothers. Wonderful advice for everything from sleeping to teething to discipline and what to expect at every age up to 5.

I would read a chapter or two ahead of where my child was to make sure she was on track developmentally, to see what I could being to expect from her and learn ways to cope with child-rearing issues. I would read excerpts to H and tell him you two need to be on the same page because consistency in expectations and in discipline are very important right now. You are setting expectations for how the future 4-year-old will listen/behave. It really helps to understand what they are capable of - attention span, comprehension, chores, etc. Maybe having such a reliable reference will convince H that his approach isn't the best.

At that age they can help unload a dishwasher by handing you things, pick up toys at the end of every day and even fold some dish clothes or hand towels. They can learn what is off-limits with reminding and the best punishments do NOT include fear. 

http://www.amazon.com/Caring-Your-Young-Child-Edition/dp/0553386301


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

The person who needs help is your DH. Can you ask the pediatrician for advice? What your DH is doing is not good for your son and will make his behavior worse, escalating your husband's "response". Rinse. Repeat.


----------



## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> The person who needs help is your DH. .


Parents usually treat their children the way they were treated at the same age, whether they realize it or not. I assume your H was smacked around and disrespected as a child (because that's what it is -- you don't tell a toddler they ARE something bad you say that what they DID is wrong and you try to explain WHY).

It may be difficult for you get your H to realize this. Men, in my experience, have trouble thinking about emotions and why they do things.

I'd suggest that you simply ask him not to smack your son because that's just way too harsh, and step in as much as possible to discipline the child yourself. Ask you H to do low-stress things like read the bedtime story or something which most likely won't create conflict.

If it continues this way, your baby will continue to seek 'junk' attention from his father by misbehaving, then try to 'punish' him by wanting mom all of the time. It's not a healthy relationship. 

Just take over as much as possible until the child gets older. If you are able to, suggest to your H that his behavior may not be appropriate -- without getting into a fight about it in front of the child. As your toddler gets older you can also explain that 'Daddy doesn't have much patience, so don't do such and such a thing...'


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

See if you can find a parenting class to attend together. Together because it might not go over very well with your husband if you tell him just he needs to go. You can frame it like both of you will learn how to parent better. Don't bring up anything about his current parenting.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Omego said:


> Parents usually treat their children the way they were treated at the same age, whether they realize it or not. I assume your H was smacked around and disrespected as a child (because that's what it is -- you don't tell a toddler they ARE something bad you say that what they DID is wrong and you try to explain WHY).


I agree that is where parents should be trying to get here. But often toddlers are too young to get it. OP one good resource is

Amazon.com: how to talk so kids will listen & listen so kids will talk


----------



## EAP14 (Nov 4, 2015)

EnjoliWoman said:


> At that age distraction works best coupled with time outs which should be 1 minute per year of age.
> 
> My ex was like that but couldn't be reasoned with so i eventually left. If your H will listen and isn't abusive, then I suggest buying the book Caring for Your Baby and Young Child by the American Academy of Pediatrics. My mom (a nurse) gave me a copy and her practice gave these out free to all expecting mothers. Wonderful advice for everything from sleeping to teething to discipline and what to expect at every age up to 5.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this advice and the book suggestion. I agree it may help if he read it from a source other than myself. 





soccermom2three said:


> See if you can find a parenting class to attend together. Together because it might not go over very well with your husband if you tell him just he needs to go. You can frame it like both of you will learn how to parent better. Don't bring up anything about his current parenting.


I like this! I think it would be a great idea to do this together. Thanks!



NobodySpecial said:


> I agree that is where parents should be trying to get here. But often toddlers are too young to get it. OP one good resource is
> 
> Amazon.com: how to talk so kids will listen & listen so kids will talk


Thank you!

I appreciate the advice. As for how my husband was raised as a kid, I have no idea. When I met his father for the first time, he was the sweetest, kindest, most gentle and loving man with a big heart. He had been battling cancer and other illnesses since my husband was about 12. According to my husband and his mother, this really changed and humbled him. Before that, my husband did say he was strict. He also mentioned how his mother was ridiculously passive, so his father was the typical "head of the household" who set all the rules and laid out the discipline. I myself was spanked- a lot. Belts, paddles, hands, etc. I was slapped and hit around too. I never had marks or injuries on me, and eventually my dad stopped spanking completely when I was probably in upper grade school (can't remember). He said he hated the lack of control he felt and it reminded him out how terrible he felt when his parents hit him (his mom was more of an abuser). So, he stopped with all of that. I wouldn't say he abused me, of course, as he never hit hard enough for serious injury, but still. 

Anyway, I am adding those resources to my Amazon cart. Thanks again!


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

I have first hand experience with a young woman who grew up with a very over bearing father. this was 5-7 years ago now.

she described the strict discipline, the harsh punishments for breaking THE RULES. She described the "its my way or the highway" mentality her father lived by. she told me how being basically a typical rebellious teen, she was thrown out of the house at 17. i have heard stories that make me sad and feel really bad for her.

oh did i mention she carried awesome grades? knocked out two years of college before finishing high school? was accepted by an "ivy league" institution but opted not to go. finished college, while working her way through it with NO college debt. now holds down a 100K a year job at 24 and has other impressive accomplishments as well. 

in a nutshell.... a parents dream come true of a successful, motivated productive member of society.

soooo....keep undermining and chastising your husband. you may bring up another spoiled self entitled wuss of todays generation.


----------



## thebirdman (Apr 5, 2014)

x598 said:


> I have first hand experience with a young woman who grew up with a very over bearing father. this was 5-7 years ago now.
> 
> she described the strict discipline, the harsh punishments for breaking THE RULES. She described the "its my way or the highway" mentality her father lived by. she told me how being basically a typical rebellious teen, she was thrown out of the house at 17. i have heard stories that make me sad and feel really bad for her.
> 
> ...


I spent many years getting screamed at and clobbered with a 2x4 or whatever object was most convenient when I was younger. I am in my mid 20's, never went to college, very successful, owned a business and sold it before I was 24, served (serve) in numerous executive positions, and have a resume rivaling or exceeding most of my much older peers.

My therapist says this has been made easy on account of I have zero fear, am emotionally detached, and I have voracious ambition driven by my need to feel valued, all of which I believe to be accurate. 

I'm just saying, there is good discipline, and then there is excess. 
I don't know what kind of upbringing the woman you reference had so I can't comment on that. While I value many of my abilities, I suffer from from the side effects and I would not wish a childhood filled with abuse on anyone. A toddler does not understand being hit repeatedly. It teaches him nothing, or at least nothing good.


----------



## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

It's interesting what becomes the norm. I was spanked as a child but I remember there came a time when my parents felt I was of an age where reasoning with me and grounding/other forms of punishment were used. Also I remember Mom saying that she was too angry and sent me to my room so she could cool down - she didn't want to spank when she was angry. Spanking was when I was younger. I think it was pretty effective and I didn't need one often. It was never done when angry. 

I admit I swatted my toddler to get her attention when she didn't listen and was getting into something, but when I saw how ROUGH my ex was with it, I looked up discipline and all about her age at the time and what she could comprehend and how long she could be expected to sit still or pay attention... I read that to ex and often had to remind him when he got ugly with her. Eventually, I had a "no corporal punishment" clause put into the custody agreement when I left.


----------



## EAP14 (Nov 4, 2015)

I just want to mention we started the time out method and it has made a huge difference. My husband jumped right on board. Now, instead of holding him down and being angry with him, he simply puts him in timeout and walks away. It gives HIM a break too. After, he's able to talk to him about what he did wrong or send him to me (if it was something he wasn't supposed to get into, he helps us clean it up). So, I appreciate the time out suggestion. We did read together some ideas, and having my husband read from other sources instead of always hearing it from me helped tremendously. 

x598, I'm all for discipline, I am. But I feel there should be an appropriate approach for each age and stage of life. Toddlers have underdeveloped brains (they are not just small children as children's brains are much more developed) and the impulse control aspect of their brain has not fully developed- meaning it's very difficult for them to walk away from something they really want. At this age, they should be guided, not controlled. Teach by being consistent with them, not forceful. Take the fear out of discipline as they are fully capable of learning what they shouldn't do in other ways. If a six year old was repeatedly not listening, acting up, getting into things he shouldn't, and using tantrums as a way to manipulate, then it's appropriate to be more firm. When you're completely controlling, unwilling to compromise, and using fear and power as an approach to punishment, I guarantee your child will lose trust in you. The last thing I want is for my children to go to other sources for comfort because they're too afraid of me and/or can't trust me.


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

EAP14 said:


> Hi, everyone. I'm having a hard time with how my husband deals with our 17 month old son. I feel he's much too hard on him and it's causing a riff in our marriage.
> 
> Scenario: Toddler gets into something he shouldn't (video games, drawers, etc).
> Husband: Loud "NO!" and a smack on the hand, arm, bottom.
> ...


OMG, this is just heartbreaking to read. I have never raised a toddler but your husband sounds like my husband with our energetic new dog before he (hubby) got on anti-depressants. 

I swear you could almost swap out the scenario 100% except my husband didn't try to hold the dog after. But he did get all hurt and pissy when the dog(s) clearly favored me over him, and obeyed me but not him. 

So.... I'm not a child expert but it seems to me your husband has the good intention of not wanting to spoil the toddler but he's not thinking about how a toddler's brain works. I don't imagine toddler's deliberately do things they know are wrong. They're just curious and energetic and bumbling about grabbing at things... 

I would imagine you need to:
1) child proof or remove as many things as possible that they're not supposed to access from their reach to eliminate most of the problem.

2) Redirect them CALMLY when they get into the wrong thing. This is not a "bad" act that needs to be punished. They need to LEARN, over time, and they can't LEARN if they are mentally shut down and afraid because the big scary dad just smacked their hand out of the blue when they had no idea they were doing anything wrong.

3) Devise a plan for how you will handle things. Being prepared is half the battle. Your husband comes home tired and probably irritable, the kid does something, and he *reacts*. Then the child reacts to that and pandemonium ensues.

If you can get your husband to go over a few scenarios and decide exactly how you two will handle them with methods you both agree too, then he will be prepared with a plan of action. Just being prepared may solve 90% of the problem. It did for us with the dogs - and everyone is happier. (Well, being prepared and a nice dose of Cymbalta for hubby, but he has medical issues that cause pain and depression, your husband probably doesn't need that.)

ALSO, have you and/or your husband read any books on parenting with strategies for toddlers? He's probably "old school" (which I am too) and doesn't want to raise a sniveling brat, of which there are plenty these days, but I think he has very unrealistic expectations of toddlers and he is inadvertently causing most of the bad behavior - plus making his own child afraid of him. 

Discipline is teaching, and if you have leadership skills, your child will follow your lead and want to please you to the best of their ability/temperament. You don't have to coddle *or *terrorize to discipline. Maybe a good book will reassure H that the child is quite normal and on track, and not destined to grow up a sociopath just because he's crying or lying or trying to get into things H doesn't want him to mess with at a certain age.

My father was a very calm, reassuring person. He was also very strict. I remember if we were in public and my father snapped his fingers, my brother and I knew to calm down and go quietly stand by his side. If my brother and I bickered he would say "Be silent" - and we were. Until he "released" us to speak again. 

Yet I have never heard him cuss or raise his voice in my life. And while we did get spanking, they were scarce and also very controlled (1 swat). And we did not pull or twist to get away. My mother on the other hand? Plenty of screaming, smacking, hair pulling, hysteria going on there. My father was just a LEADER in our household. You didn't question it, you just knew it, and to chldren it was reassuring and calming.

It sounds like that is what your husband wants, he just needs to be smarter than a 17 month old and prepare himself in advance for what is and is not an infraction that requires correcting - and for how he can calmly correct without pouring gasoline on a fire. Toddlers want to please. But if they don't understand what they're doing wrong - well, good luck with that.


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

EAP14 said:


> I'm all for discipline, I am. But I feel there should be an appropriate approach for each age and stage of life. Toddlers have underdeveloped brains (they are not just small children as children's brains are much more developed) and the impulse control aspect of their brain has not fully developed- meaning it's very difficult for them to walk away from something they really want.


I am a big disciplinarian myself, but it never ceases to amaze me how many adults epxect a level of impulse control and emotional maturity from small children that they themselves at over 40 years old do not yet posses!


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I have no problem with a swat on the hand or ass to correct behavior. Where I see parents get it wrong is the motivation. Are you hitting a child because you're angry or because you are giving a consequence to an action. You shouldn't hit because your angry, that's only making you feel better and does nothing. OP sounds like he was hitting out of anger and frustration that has to stop. I do understand how I happens out of frustration that's where you can step in and say hey your upset take a walk I got this.

I have never spanked my oldest child. Never had to cause time outs work great with her. My youngest is whole other story. Could care less about time outs or things taken away so I have had to give her some swats


----------



## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Have you tried 123 Magic as well, another tool in the tool box.

How it works:

When a child misbehaves, state the misbehaviour, explain simply the consequences and say that's one.

If it reoccurs, that's 2

Reoccurs again, that's three and state the unaccepted behaviour and consequences and follow through with them.

This works well up to about pre-teens in my experience. It is about being consistent, and calm technique as well as follow through.

At first it will take persistence on your part and patience but the little bean will get the idea pretty quickly after a fairly short time. I've been using this technique for nearly 15 years with great results.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

spoiling him now will give you disruptive behavior in the future.

more important than either of your or husbands methods, is consistency - consistent rules, consistent discipline technique.

if you're soft or inconsistant of course the child will run from Dad, and as you are clearly planning setting him up to be an excluded monster in their relationship - you know by not disciplining you child will prefer you, and seek to avoid communication with other parent, and having two stes of rules of what is acceptable you set your child to have negative experiences from its father.


----------



## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

EAP14 said:


> Hi, everyone. I'm having a hard time with how my husband deals with our 17 month old son. I feel he's much too hard on him and it's causing a riff in our marriage.
> 
> Scenario: Toddler gets into something he shouldn't (video games, drawers, etc).
> Husband: Loud "NO!" and a smack on the hand, arm, bottom.
> ...


Oh, boy, does this sound like my husband. He wasn't so strict when the kids were that age, but my H also reacted to my parenting like yours is. In my view, your husband is confusing punishment with discipline. He is not parenting with you. He isn't listening and instead gets angry and defensive at you. All very bad signs; signs of a man who expects everything to be done as he expects, even the 17 month old. The holding thing is particularly bad. If holding is a punishment, your child will grow up feeling that physical contact is feels bad emotionally. I know - my parents did something similar and it messed me up good. Even hugs felt abnormal until well into adulthood for me. 

As for what to do, I don't have any words of wisdom. My H and I went to numerous parenting classes, therapists, and child psychologists. My H acted like he agreed with what the professionals recommended, but he really didn't. Our biggest issue, in my view, was how we handled the kids. It took years, but I finally gave up. I moved out about a week ago and haven't looked back once. I will be divorcing him when the year is out. If you want your marriage, this needs to get resolved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mussi (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm sorry if I'm bursting anyone's bubble here but your husband is not being too tough, he's being abusive.
He seems incapable of understanding the developmental level and the expectations and functioning of a child and also seems incapable of self reflection and maybe even of change. If he is indeed incapable of changing I recommend you leave him and make sure he is not alone with your child. 

You talked about his mom being passive, but you standing by watching the scenario you described for half an hour without butting in is to me extremely passive so you are cast in the same role his mother was, and he is taking on the role of his dad. Furthermore it sounds like you yourself were abused, but that you are unwilling to admit this to yourself and this might explain why you only see his abuse of a 17-month old as being too harsh. Coming from a home with an abusive dad and a mom to scared and passive to do anything real to keep her 3 kids from harm it seems to me like you have the perfect recipe for disaster here, it sounds very recognizable.

My mom also tried talking to my dad, but guess what, it never worked and we were hit and beaten throughout our childhoods for the tiniest infractions by a man incapable of understanding, like someone else posted here that you cannot expect children to act like rational adults. Then again it takes a rational adult to acknowledge that fact, and I don't know if your husband is. 

I know I'm coming across harsh, but I'd rather you hear it from a stranger on a forum now than from your own child when he grows up and resents you for not protecting him, for not keeping him safe and taking him away from that situation because I doubt your husbands behaviour will change unless he agrees to anger management, parenting classes and probably also individual therapy. And it will only get worse as your child ages. 

That being said I am extremely proud of you that you are posting in this forum and that you are seeking help. I wish the internet was around when I was a kid, and my mom would have found a forum where she could get anonymous advice as she was too ashamed to talk to friends and family about it, causing the whole situation to become much more toxic and to last for much longer than it should have. 

Given my history and my current resentment of my mom whom I otherwise love dearly, for not having kept me and my siblings safe, if I were you I would pack my things, take my kid and leave. And if my husband ever smacked or scared my kid again I would beat the living daylights out of his abusive ass. However you may be more tolerant, so an alternative would be intensive therapy for your husvband, clear rules that are non- negotiable and a promise that if he ever uses these methods to discipline your child again you will leave hima dn he will never be alone with his child again. 

To SurpriseMyself: I am incredibly proud of you for leaving and I hope your kids will be as grateful and proud of you as they ought to be for having the strength and resolution to do so.


----------



## Mussi (Dec 7, 2015)

Also I agree with Spotthedeaddog that having one parent set no boundaries and the other set ALL the boundaries but in a totally confusing and non-consistent way is the ideal way to make young children idealize one parent and fear the other. But this will turn on you when the child becomes old enough to recognize this pattern and they will resetn you for it. That being said you seem to want to try to change your husbands ways of disciplining your child, but you need to know when to give up if it isn't working, before your kid is too traumatized.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

EAP14 said:


> Hi, everyone. I'm having a hard time with how my husband deals with our 17 month old son. I feel he's much too hard on him and it's causing a riff in our marriage.
> 
> Scenario: Toddler gets into something he shouldn't (video games, drawers, etc).
> Husband: Loud "NO!" and a smack on the hand, arm, bottom.
> ...


He shouldn't be smacking at all, let alone a 17 month old. Imagine how confusing that is for a baby? Do you want your kid to be the one beating up other kids at the playground? Have you sat down with your husband and actually planned out a consistent way to discipline your son? Like timeout? Kids hate that sh!t and it has a big influence on their behavior. Spanking or smacking will lose its affect if he's doing it all the time too. You are the mother of this child, chosen by God and Nature to protect him. Grow a pair and do it.


----------

