# Guys, need your opinion....



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Ok, I haven't posted a question in a long time. I have commented plenty, so here it goes....
Last weekend my husband and I were talking and having a very deep conversation about our likes and dislikes, habits, fantasies, etc. You get the picture. 
We have been married for almost 17 years now and throughout our entire marriage he has always told me in essence, I only have eyes for you. I half believed him since I know men check out other women. I know I look and assumed he did too. No big deal, right?
So last weekend during our conversation he admitted that he did in fact check out other women but in addition he visually "undressed" them and imagined what they looked like naked. Huh? I asked him how long has that been happening and he said "since he was 14 years old". I asked if he did this while we were dating, "Yes", during my pregnancy, "Yes", has this happened throughout our marriage, "Yes". I was stunned and quite hurt to be honest. I am not insecure but I couldn't wrap my brain around why he would tell me for all these years he only had eyes for me but that wasn't the case. He said he didn't think it was a "big deal" so he didn't mention it. So why proactively tell me that I am the only one he looks at? I didn't ask, he volunteered that information for all these years. I then asked him if he has fantasies about these women and he said no. Doesn't masturbate to them, nothing. My BS meter is up on this one. Not sure what to believe at this point.
So my question is, why would he not be honest and upfront? Why say that he only looks at me (which I was suspect at from the beginning)? Why would he act this way if it wasn't for fantasy purposes? It's just so weird to me. Any insight from the guys would be much appreciated. :scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

*Re: Some advice from the guys...*

I wanted to add that I asked him the extent of "checking out" these women and he said if he sees an attractive woman he automatically thinks about what her butt, breasts and pubic area look like. Again, what? So why volunteer years ago that he doesn't look at other women. Again, I didn't ask, I just assumed he did but not to this extent. It's just so weird and this last week has me questioning all this. This is kind of a whopper of a lie, at least to me. Maybe I am overthinking this. Not sure. It does hurt though. 
Insight from the wonderful men on this site would be helpful.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I wanted to add that I asked him the extent of "checking out" these women and he said if he sees an attractive woman he automatically thinks about what her butt, breasts and pubic area look like. Again, what? So why volunteer years ago that he doesn't look at other women. Again, I didn't ask, I just assumed he did but not to this extent. It's just so weird and this last week has me questioning all this. This is kind of a whopper of a lie, at least to me. Maybe I am overthinking this. Not sure. It does hurt though. 
Insight from the wonderful men on this site would be helpful.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Brennan~

I'm not a guy but speaking as a lady I'd like to remind you of a few things: 

#1 He felt comfortable enough with you to open up and tell you the real truth. That is HUGE! Now if you freak out and grill him, he'll learn to never tell you the truth again. So tread carefully here. Don't work yourself into a frenzy where none may be. 

#2 "I only have eyes for you" and wondering what butt and breasts look like MAY be different things in his mind. They are in mind. "I only have eyes for you" does not mean I'm not able to look at the form of another being and appreciate beauty. It means, I look at YOU a certain way that is reserved just for you. Now I will admit that I rarely look at other men and think "Huh I wonder what his penis looks like" because I just don't--but I do think about butts a little! The thing is, even if I do think about a butt, what I am REALLY doing is imagining or making something up or just having a visual thought, or (depending on the clothing today which is so darn revealing) admiring a certain presentation for it's beauty. Hey, the fact is that some people are well put together and then enhance that with a certain outfit or color! But it's like look at a museum exhibit, a beautiful painting, or a perfect rose. 

Does that make sense? If there is a sexuality to it, it would be ME thinking or imagining something that I find pleasing...NOT what's really there or "having eyes for it." To my mind, "having eyes" for someone means you actually want to make the effort to pursue them.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Affaircare,
I totally can see your point of view. I agree that he was honest with me (now) and I respect that! Tremendously. I am just confused as to why keep this from me for all this time? There were times in our marriage that were really awful. I was ignored emotionally and sexually. Was this something he turned to? Don't know. Again, I am probably making a big deal but I am hurt. 
Also, I do find it a bit creepy. Checking out other women, no problem. I check out other guys. Undressing women with his eyes and imagining them naked and perhaps doing other things (although he says that is not the case)....kind of violating in my opinion. I am just confused. Very secure with myself but just don't understand this.

Any guys out there that could weigh in on this?


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Listen, I'm not sure what all you really want to know going on in the mind of a man, even a man totally committed and desiring his woman, and reserving his committment and devotion to only one woman out of billions of women on this planet.

In summary, your man is showing a TREMENDOUS amount of trust, to give you a glimpse into his innermost workings.

For a man, any man, that is going to be attracted to any woman, then it is a fact, that biology is biology.

And biology is not going to switch on and off like a switch, as much as sometimes it would cause so many less problems!

Know myself, married for over 20 years. I find my wife the most desirable woman I have ever known.

And yes, this is not a secret between my wife and myself, without any doubt I will notice any and every woman even if only remotely attractive, even if unattractive, especially if very attractive. I notice them on television, out and about, the women who are married and even our good friends. 

And yes, when I notice a woman, that means I am feeling what it would be as only imagined to size up some aspect of a sexual connection, even if you want to imagine this is "undressing", although to be fair most of the times there is not even so much thought put in it.

So imagine as easy as it would be for you, a happily married woman to a good man, to still have some interaction with some other man, who would be maybe very handsome and pleasant and polite, and imagine such a sharp wit and humor and entertaining. And maybe he is noticing you and paying you much attention, and seeming very interested in your conversation and thoughts and opinions on a number of things. So imagine with such a man, even if there was not even a hint of infidelity, how easy would it be to develop a repoir with such a man, and to desire to have conversation and over time to share even your problems or concerns, and have him listen so intently, and even so much in just listening, and not interupting, how after a while it would be easy to consider such a man a close friend, even without a thought of infidelity, to become an emotionally attached to such a man.

So imagine, if this same process, in the mind of a man was to happen instantly, and without thought, but instead of the emotoinal attachment it was a fury of physical sexual urges, that rush in from the primal and deepest parts of the brain, at even such a quick and instant glimpse of an attractive girl, dressed to the nines, with all the right curves, and the man with the heritage of a hunter, in his visual senses razor keen after a thousand generations of men before him, notices even a hint of attraction or a glimpse of such a woman noticing him (even if in just a man's imagination, this is not any difference!). And imagine all this in the course of just a second or two. And imagine this all the time, every time, there is some woman catching his eye!

So it is with a man, to contend with these urges, a thousand times a day, through media and work and day to day interactions, these urges he is feeling, even if he is very strongly not even looking for them.

For there is a reason men for thousands of years, to avoid temptation have locked themselves away in monastaries and temples on mountaintops far far far away from even any woman, so strong are these urges, and all men know these things.

So for your man to be testing the waters, so to speak, to open up the door even a crack, please do not read into this anything other than this.

That out of the billions of women on the earth, and the hundreds if not thousands of women catching the eye of your man, that you are his woman above ALL these other women.

He is putting a great trust in you. Relish and honor this trust, be courageous, and explore with your man in this trust.

Maybe he is wanting to open up about more and deeper things, such as his fantasies or deepest desires he is wanting to share with you!

I wish you well.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Big Bad Wolf,
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your honesty and candor. I understand SO much more now! 
May I ask another question though? Why hide it for so long? My hurt isn't that he looks (hell I do!) but rather that he lied about it. Early in our marriage I was totally honest in telling him I notice good looking guys. His response "I barely notice other women anymore". Why would he say he didn't do it from an early point in our marriage only to admit years later? That bothers me.
Also, is the "undressing" part what most men do? I really thought it was just looking. What would he get out of that? 
I do really respect him for opening up to me. I am just trying to wrap my brain around it all and as much as I don't want to admit it, it is kind of knawing at me for this last week. I am very secure in myself and now after many bad years, thankfully in our marriage. This just kind of hit me a little hard.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> Big Bad Wolf,
> I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your honesty and candor. I understand SO much more now!
> May I ask another question though? Why hide it for so long? My hurt isn't that he looks (hell I do!) but rather that he lied about it. Early in our marriage I was totally honest in telling him I notice good looking guys. His response "I barely notice other women anymore". Why would he say he didn't do it from an early point in our marriage only to admit years later? That bothers me.


I think that's where the disconnect is. You think that since he said he "only has eyes for you" or he "barely notices other women" that he lied all those years. I don't see it that way. I see is as he sees a human being walking down the road. In that fleeting moment, there is just enough time for his brain to say "Ah ha" and either move on to other things or not. In his single days he may have had the "Ah ha" and purposely allowed himself further moments to notice and look the woman up and down and really fantasize or start a bit of one. Now he sees her. He says "Ah ha a pretty woman. But I'm married and I love her so I'll just enjoy the beauty" and his eyes are for you and compared to single days he barely notices. It's "Ah ha" and "Wow pretty... Next" and he's on to the next thought. 



> Also, is the "undressing" part what most men do? I really thought it was just looking. What would he get out of that? I do really respect him for opening up to me. I am just trying to wrap my brain around it all and as much as I don't want to admit it, it is kind of knawing at me for this last week. I am very secure in myself and now after many bad years, thankfully in our marriage. This just kind of hit me a little hard.


Again I'm not a man, but I bet most men think something like, "Oh, nice curves. I bet she has a curvy hip" think on that a brief second, then move on. Is that undressing? Yeah sort of. Or "Oh look at those tits!" has a brief flash of larger breast, do they hang or stick out, etc. and then moves on. Here's the fact for a guy: nude is good. A woman's mind may not jump to "nude man" immediately due to some difference in wiring but a guy's mind would. 

So see what I mean? You are taking it as "lying all these years" and that may not be his perspective. Maybe it would help if you asked him directly to explain what he means by "I only have eyes for you" and "barely noticing other women"--and just explain that since it's not the way your brain is wired you're having trouble understanding his definitions.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Brennan said:


> Why hide it for so long?


Because it's inconsequential. There is no consequence, effect, or outcome of telling you that he did this. It has no bearing on the reality of his life, or relationship with you. But there is certainly the potential that you wouldn't see it that way. Telling you would only accomplish one thing - generate more questions, and possibly create more pitfalls.

Should he have told you? Maybe ... I would guess that he was concerned that you might question his commitment and devotion, or he just didn't want to invite a fight. You may be unaware of it, but believe it or not ... sometimes women will share with you that they do something for the sole reason of getting you to confess that you do it too .... 




> Also, is the "undressing" part what most men do? I really thought it was just looking. What would he get out of that?


Yup. Absolutely normal. We all do it. And importantly, it isn't something that has presence of mind. It isn't an 'actionable item'. This very thing is an exercise for men struggling with sexual intimacy. Their 'job' is to visually undress, and picture themselves being desired by, and having sex with any woman that catches their eye. 

I understand that this had an impact on you. But as others have already mentioned, you shouldn't give it any presence of mind either. Especially if you and your husband are making progress.

Any guy that posts to this thread telling you he is a pig, a liar, or is being disrespectful is full of beans.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Thank you all! 
Deejo,
I don't think he is a pig at all. Far from it. I just am a little shocked that he volunteered that he didn't look for all these years (again, I never asked nor needed that validation) but did and actually took it much further. I mean, in our conversation he actually admitted to me that he imagines what their "pussies" look like and their grooming habits. Um, yeah. It stung to say the least. 
You also mention that men do this and picture themselves being desired by and having sex with women that catch their eye. See, he says that wasn't his thing. He just saw and attractive woman, undressed her visually and moved on. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that. Not sure what to believe at this point. Maybe he is still protecting my feelings?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Big Bad Wolf,
> I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your honesty and candor. I understand SO much more now!
> May I ask another question though? Why hide it for so long? My hurt isn't that he looks (hell I do!) but rather that he lied about it. Early in our marriage I was totally honest in telling him I notice good looking guys. His response "I barely notice other women anymore". Why would he say he didn't do it from an early point in our marriage only to admit years later? That bothers me.
> Also, is the "undressing" part what most men do? I really thought it was just looking. What would he get out of that?
> I do really respect him for opening up to me. I am just trying to wrap my brain around it all and as much as I don't want to admit it, it is kind of knawing at me for this last week. I am very secure in myself and now after many bad years, thankfully in our marriage. This just kind of hit me a little hard.


Brennan,

Experience indicates that "barely noticing other women" means that he's so focused on you that you likely cannot breathe.

Needy, clingy, demanding men are far from masculine.

They're pains in the ass.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Brennan said:


> Thank you all!
> 
> You also mention that men do this and picture themselves being desired by and having sex with women that catch their eye. See, he says that wasn't his thing. He just saw and attractive woman, undressed her visually and moved on. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that. Not sure what to believe at this point. Maybe he is still protecting my feelings?


The sex piece I referenced, I read in an article a number of years ago. The exercise was two-fold. De-emphasize their focus on their partner. The idea was to let them know that fantasy is ok, necessary, and healthy. And secondly to increase their own sexual awareness. The guys referenced in the article generally had performance anxiety, thus the reason they were supposed to take the visual to the next level.

Commonly, I don't think most guys go to that level of detail.

As for having a hard time believing your husband, I'm trying to understand the focus of your concern? You are couching his disclosure as adversarial instead of being pleased that he took the step to be open and honest. With this knowledge, you can actually get closer to him, by making a game of it. Unless you are offended by the notion.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Of course he looks at other women. He's a man. Of course he told you he only has eyes for you. He's a man but he isn't completely stupid! The problem with peering into the stinking pot which is the male brain is that you might not like everything you see. Don't worry, you haven't latched onto a perv, but just an average, apparently healthy guy.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: Some advice from the guys...*

I don't know what made him come clean to you all of a sudden. That you'd have to ask him. I do think your feelings of anger and confusion are totally normal and expected but I'm not sure your husband intended to provoke them. Maybe he thought the two of you are secure enough in your relationship now where he could confide in you.

If he is lying and he has fantasies, I'm sure he won't share them with you now because he recognizes how much being honest about looking at other women hurt you.

I think almost all men look at other women and picture them naked and I think many faithful men also have had fantasies of other women at one time or another too. I'd even guess that a whole lot of men don't share these with their wives either for fear of causing the feelings your husband caused you.

My husband and I have been married for 14 years and he did something similar a few months ago. I was asking him if he thought any girls at his job were attractive (such a loaded question really) and he said yes. I was shocked because normally he's like your husband and says he only has eyes for me, etc. So I pushed him about it and it ended with me feeling hurt and being able to put faces to the other women he finds attractive-ick!! When I asked him why he suddenly was forthcoming he said it was because I kept telling him to be honest. Sigh.

I understand how you feel but understand where your husband was coming from as well. I think the key for you will be to find out why he was so forthcoming all of a sudden. Was he trying to hurt you purposely? Is he angry or was he really thinking he could be honest with you without hurting you? All legitimate questions he should be able to answer.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

*Re: Some advice from the guys...*

Let me explain it for you...

Guys are visual animals and have vivid imaginations. We all do this or something similar. 

Has he cheated on you? if not, I suggest you back off a little.

And understand that when you want a guy top be open and honest with you, he probably won't have an emergency shut-off valve for his mouth until his foot is in it.


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## 63Vino (Dec 23, 2009)

*Re: Some advice from the guys...*

Hi Brennon.

You're discovering (or your H is helping you understand) an honest truth about him (and men in general).

That is, It's really NOT realistic for any person to turn off the attraction mechanism simply because you may have found your husband or wife. Hope I dont get myself in trouble here but in my experience women are very insecure on this one. What i mean is that, lets say your H, in this case, has NEVER done anything against you even though he has seen other women that he found beautiful, hot whatever. That is the committment he pledged. 

In addition, the reason he never shared before is likely due to the exact reaction you're having. An unrealistic and imature one.
If I were you I'd be VERY happy that he is telling you things and I would focus on fostering MUCH more of that. At the end of the day, thats what is important... no matter what happens, you'll (or should be) happy for the truth.

Try to get your head on straight. Just because there may be other female forms that get a short term reaction from him means in NO way that you are not his one and only.

Seems to me you may be getting closer to him after all this time.
Thats sweet to me.... not something to be afraid of.


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## Chris H. (Jan 27, 2007)

[merged duplicate threads - please do not post a thread more than once]


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Chris H.,

That will not happen again. Sorry for that!

To others, as I mentioned, I look at other men. Always have, always will. I am NOT faulting him for looking. What I don't get is the years of lying. Again, I assumed he did but he said on his own accord that he didn't. I thought, wow, that's weird, most men/women do. He volunteered this information. I never asked, didn't care....just assumed it was so. 
Then when he tells me what he does and the extent of it I was a little shocked. I mean, why not say it upfront. He didn't "look" at other women, he imagined them naked to the extent of weather they shaved/waxed or not in his mind. 
Everybody has their "thing". His thing is to imagine what a chick looks like naked, my thing is to imagine what a good looking guy would look like dressed up in a Hugo Boss suit. To each their own. The thing is, I never lied about it. Ever. Why would he lie if I was totally on board with our own fantasies from the get go. THAT is what I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around. 
I am very happy he told me. NOTHING wrong with that. Nothing. Just hurt in a sense that all these years I thought I was weird for thinking about and feeling guilty about thoughts of others and yet he only "had thoughts of me", which is not the case.
Now he says that they are just thoughts and he does nothing with them. So he only masturbates to me? Wrong. I don't think that is possible nor would I want it to be. Not sure how to approach this. Any thoughts? It's like he feels guilty about it which is the last thing I want him to feel. I thought it was weird as hell that he said "only me" and insisted that was all. I want him to have fantasies and imagine. Hell, I do! Why not be open about it? I don't get this.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> ...What I don't get is the years of lying. Again, I assumed he did (look) but he said on his own accord that he didn't. I thought, wow, that's weird, most men/women do. He volunteered this information. I never asked, didn't care....just assumed it was so.
> Then when he tells me what he does and the extent of it I was a little shocked. I mean, why not say it upfront. He didn't "look" at other women, he imagined them naked to the extent of weather they shaved/waxed or not in his mind.


I am not positive why this is not getting through, other than that perhaps you do not *want* it to get through, but perhaps let me try another tactic. 

Are you aware of a site here on the internet called something like "Guess Her Muff"? I'm not trying to be indelicate but rather asking if you are aware of the existence of that site or sites like it. The idea of the site is a photo of a female person fully clothed as she might appear during a normal day, and then the person looking at the site can guess if the carpet matches the curtains, etc. 

I ask if you know of this site because as a female person, when we notice a guy, sometimes we will take a moment and actually have a little distraction. Maybe it's a very small, short fantasy like you said, envisioning how he might look in a tux or swimwear (as females often are more into fashion and "look" or "image") but after a brief foray into that thought, we stop and carry on right? I believe as a male person, it's more like rapid-fire thoughts within the span of a few nano-seconds: beauty--kind of free-spirited--guess her muff--back to what they're really thinking of. Now I'm not saying guys don't linger over a thought or have an image, but it's not like they have this longish, ongoing vision of her slowly stripping, then him admiring every curve and nude part, then hmmm eyes drift downward.... The world is out there and the world has stuff like "Guess her muff" plus we women are fun enough to do them different ways in different colors, shaves, and styles that make it a little fun for the guys! So it is reasonable to think they would have that as part of the background noise of what enters the mind. 

That does NOT mean that he dwells on it, contemplates it, lingers on it, and fantasizes undressing every woman. He probably didn't tell you anything because a) it's really NOT relevant to his life or his relationship with you and b) precisely because of this reaction you're having here!

Think of it this way. When someone asks you "What are you thinking about?" you can tell them the pervasive thought that you've been kind of dwelling and and contemplating... OR... the one hundred bits of background data that pop into your head and you decided to disregard about 99% of it. Would it be lying to say you never thought of leaving the marriage? Of course the thought popped into your head somewhere along the line! And within 1/2 a second you dismissed it and disregarded the thought. So have you been holding back a deep-seated lie from your husband all along--because you had it fleetingly pop into your head and just as fleetingly pop out? OR was it something that did not impact your real life or your relationship with him so why mention it? 

I'm just saying!


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## 63Vino (Dec 23, 2009)

Brennan said:


> Chris H.,
> 
> That will not happen again. Sorry for that!
> 
> ...



oh well then that is a bit different. BUT still... maybe he is mroe imature than you.. worried about your reaction. Dunno. 
I would have to say he does deserve a spanking for making YOU feel guilty. Take it for what it is.. forget the feeling of being "wronged" and pry for more!!!
hahah
If you're only miffed that he kept it to himself, maybe figure out why he didnt feel comfortable.


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## 63Vino (Dec 23, 2009)

Ha... neat site affair care!!! hahaha 
Very amusing.


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## lostinlove000 (Sep 8, 2010)

Hey, from a guy married 28 years & head over heels in love (& lust) with my wife - I think it was huge that your husband let you in on one of the "male secrets". We ALL do it - if I told my wife this I know she would react like you did - I keep it bottled up. You have a great guy, don't mess it up. You should sit him down, let him know this revelation shook you up but you are OK with it. There's no telling how deep & intimate your connection could go if he's ready to open up like that! All the best!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

63Vino,
I was totally upfront from the beginning of our relationship that I look at others, both men and women. Why not say "yeah, I do it to" years ago? I wasn't insecure then, nor am I today. I was open and honest so why hide this? Odd.
I did think about this a bit more and I think my direction has shifted a bit in that maybe he didn't admit to this because he was ashamed. We met for lunch today just to hang out so I asked him about this. He said no, he isn't ashamed and that "all guys do this" and that it isn't a big deal. Okay, then again, why lie about it? Now I am more confused.
Driving back to work I had a weird feeling and now kind of think this is a bit creepy. Lie to your wife that you are the only guy on the planet that doesn't notice hotness all the while using x-ray vision to check out unsuspecting women, imaging what their intimate parts look like. It kind of sounds a bit creepy. Am I off base here? Also, do all guys visually undress random women? Don't know. Any more insight would be appreciated.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I would never undress a woman in my mind and picture her naked body.

Never in a million years.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Alright Scanner, enough with the sarcasm, I realize it was a stupid question. LOL.  He undresses other women with his eyes. Cool. That's his thing. 
So here's the weird part that I found out today after our conversation earlier this evening. He doesn't like naked pictures of women (too staged as he put it) and doesn't like porn (too scripted and fake). He thinks it is ridiculous, lame and doesn't enjoy it. Weird to me. I enjoy porn. He doesn't. Doesn't that seem weird for a 39 year old healthy guy to feel that way?
Okay, now what? 
So it got me thinking (again), maybe he is a voyeur. It makes sense right? I mean porn isn't spying or seeing in to some secret world at all, it is out there on display. Looking at pictures of naked women isn't voyeurism. It is all out there, am I wrong? To the guys out there, wouldn't visually undressing women be voyeurism?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Unless he's gay, he likes looking at naked women. Porn is full of naked women. It's certainly not weird that he would deny this to his wife. Most guys in their right mind would. We like to see naked women but we like peace at home more. To save you some time, here are some honest responses that you likely will never hear.

Q. Do these jeans make my butt look fat?
Husband answer: Of course not, you're gorgeous!!
Real answer: You're a size 18. It's not the jeans' fault.

Q. If I died, would you remarry?
A. Husband answer: I could never replace you.
Real answer: You betcha.

Q. Did you see that woman? (referring to a 20 year old hottie showing lots of skin in public)
A. husband answer: You know I don't look at other women.
A. Real answer: Her image is imprinted permanently and perfectly in his memory bank. 

If guys didn't like looking at hot women, Hugh Hefner would be broke and the entire advertising industry would collapse.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

AC is right, the very reason you are dug into this thing like a tick is the very reason that he ISN'T up-front about it.

It's not healthy for either of you.

And yes, as unbelievable points out, he is simply following the "Program". We are programmed to spit out sh!t women want to hear. We are told women want to hear this ... by women. And then said women question why we ever said it all if it isn't how we really feel. It's a hoot.

There is one reason why this is an issue.

Because you have decided it's an issue.

This was never an issue in my marriage. Taking note of attractive individuals was never an issue. Porn was never an issue. Sounds great right? 

No. Sex. Intimacy, honesty, and communication were an issue.
We're divorcing.

You are focusing your energy in the absolute wrong direction.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Brennan said:


> May I ask another question though? Why hide it for so long? My hurt isn't that he looks (hell I do!) but rather that he lied about it. Early in our marriage I was totally honest in telling him I notice good looking guys. His response "I barely notice other women anymore". Why would he say he didn't do it from an early point in our marriage only to admit years later? That bothers me.
> Also, is the "undressing" part what most men do? I really thought it was just looking. What would he get out of that?
> I do really respect him for opening up to me. I am just trying to wrap my brain around it all and as much as I don't want to admit it, it is kind of knawing at me for this last week. I am very secure in myself and now after many bad years, thankfully in our marriage. This just kind of hit me a little hard.


 I just had an interesting experience over the weekend with this very subject. Me & husband took a small vacation. While in the adult Hot Tub, we couldnt help but notice this couple sitting in nearby chairs, she was visably upset, then I noticed he was crying, burying his head in the towel, his eyes were red, hers were red, then she moved away from him, he tried to console her, then he left. I had this overwhelming desire to talk to this young girl, see if she might want a listening ear. I told my husband to leave, then it was just me & her in the Hot tub. 

She was very friendly, I told her I couldn't help but notice the 2 of them & that he must love her very much. She started telling me it was "something he said" -- and wouldn't you know, it was this very subject!! I can't remember the exact comment that he made, but it was just "a comment" that started all of this drama! 

She admitted she was very jealous, she was only 19, they just started going out a few months ago. I tried to console her in helping her see this is truly a MAN thing - a testosterone curse if you will - that IF he is good to her in every other way (and it so sounded he was!), that she CAN get past this. And be thankful he was so "open" with her. How rare this is ! And to say to her -- just seeing him CRYING in public like that, that he hurt her that much, how sweet was that !! It was a WOW moment, that he really does care. And this is nothing to throw him away over. 

Heck, I am a woman & undress guys in my head if they are good looking- and I told this girl that! Asked her if she does, I had her laughing. I think the higher your sex drive, the more you do these things & most men are plaqued with this- enjoyed reading BBW's take on this one. 

Just like my husband used to hide his porn, he didnt want to hurt me, stir the pot, you know this is why men are not that honest with us. It is all about OUR REACTION. I bet this guy wont ever do THAT again. Maybe his 1st experience with honesty & see what happened - pretty much destroyed their vacation. I hope my words helped her see another side to a man's thinking. 

Now that I have gotten older, I think I have gotten wiser, also more openly receptive to the REAL truth of what lies in the dark recesses of men's minds. So long as our husbands are faithful, devoted to us, emotionally connected & all their releases are to us, the fact that they are looking/ noticing/ even a little undressing in the mind, it just states their hormones are "healthy" - and we WANT THAT. I tell my husband I hope he is a dirty old man when is 90 , if he lives that long.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Now that I have gotten older, I think I have gotten wiser, also more openly receptive to the REAL truth of what lies in the dark recesses of men's minds.


Who knows what evils lurk in the hearts of men?

The Shadow knows! LOL. You are a brave woman.

Another good book to read if you want to get inside men's heads is "MEN IN LOVE" by Nancy Friday - written in the 70's I think.

She collected men's fantasies and then theorized in a Freudian manner what they are thinking during women on women fantasies, older women/young man, others I can't remember, etc.

I was amazed how remarkably accurate she was (and the fantasies are hot so this is a trashy book to bring the beach, ladies - Women In Love is good too). I mean I didn't know why I liked watching 2 women going at it and now after I read that book, it was like "Oh yeah, that's what in the dark recesses of my mind!!!!" LOL.

Essentially, our mothers (you women, yes, you horrible women!  )tell us to put our ugly penis' away when we are little boys and of course, don't touch ourselves, no matter how fun it is. So, all of this gets repressed and it just wants to come out and comes out in weird ways in fantasies.

It was also illuminating that apparently (and I didn't know this about you women generally) all mothers think their little boys will just be good little boys, they won't be a pervert like the Dote Husband they married. Their sons are on a pedestal in that manner.

Of course, like SA notes, there's thing called testosterone.

And it's stronger than any mothering out there.

Eventually all guys become pigs just like Dad and there's not a damn thing a mother or a wife can do about it. The thing is, as a guy, you expect your mother to disapprove of your sexuality. 

You don't expect your wife to.

In other words, I use the famous words that any man in any marital spat has ever used:

"You are not my mother!!!"


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

SA and Scanner,
I guess my post got bumped up. Here is the issue for me today about what I posted a month or so ago. I feel totally ignored by him. Like we just exist. He is faithful but not devoted or emotionally connected as SA mentioned. So couple my now knowledge of his thoughts with being ignored emotionally and sexually and you see where I am at. It's gotten worse in the last month. I used to think I was confident and secure but now, not so sure. It didn't help that I turned 39 either. Grrr.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I tell my husband I hope he is a dirty old man when is 90 , if he lives that long.


This is good.

In fact I have often explained myself to my wife in this way, that I am simply a dirty old man in a young(er) man's body.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Brennan said:


> SA and Scanner,
> I guess my post got bumped up. Here is the issue for me today about what I posted a month or so ago. I feel totally ignored by him. Like we just exist. He is faithful but not devoted or emotionally connected as SA mentioned. So couple my now knowledge of his thoughts with being ignored emotionally and sexually and you see where I am at. It's gotten worse in the last month. I used to think I was confident and secure but now, not so sure. It didn't help that I turned 39 either. Grrr.


Happy Birthday?!

I've felt like you as well.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks, Trenton,
It's not a good feeling. I really could care less if he checked out others as long as he made me feel like the priority in his life. Telling me I am the most important person in his life yet barely looking at me while he is saying that, doesn't make me feel good. Now, he checks out others and I just feel like ****. It starts to wear at my confidence. Couple that with him saying that our sex life went to crap because we fought so often. He cannot or rather does not have a desire for sex when he is angry or sad. Yet he has no problem undressing others. Okay?! Not sure what to make of that.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

My ex didn't want to have sex with me. Sex with me = Very Very Bad. Because that is what her head told her.

The reality was, if we had sex it was just fine. But getting to the event was filled with roadblocks, and steamer trunks of baggage. What was supposed to be emotionally fulfilling, beneficial and invigorating, was associated with fear, pain and indifference. 

But ... replace me with a shorter, fat, version of me *snicker* and she can get her freaky deaky on screaming with her ankles behind her ears. (Is that TMI?)

This is how people's heads work. I love trying to make sense of it, but I accept that it generally doesn't make sense.

I had one of those 2x4 to the head moments regarding my wife after I moved out in 08. Feeding my resentment of her was pitifully easy as long as I continued to expect that she should do the things that she wasn't doing. 

Once I was out of the house, I really didn't have those expectations that she should be doing what she wasn't doing, and guess what? We began reconnecting.

Here's my point. I revisited all of your threads. All of the ones you started. There is a pervasive sense that you are clinging to the history that you told me about. You are holding onto it and using it as a basis both for staying in the relationship, and undermining it. I hear you describe the things that you want from your husband that you say aren't there - may never have been there.

So here is my over-arching advice ... you need to get out of your head.

Stop focusing on what you think he should be doing - and then of course doesn't. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You can't build anything good this way.

I really think you need to back away from this guy for a while. Find ways to fulfill yourself, that have nothing to do with him.

Go buy yourself a jackrabbit. Keep up the workouts. Start a women's group. Take pole-dancing.

I absolutely understand wanting to be in love with your partner. But it seems like you guys made progress earlier this year and then have gone into decline again. Is that fair to say?

If you back away from the expectations of what your marriage should be, it serves two purposes:

It helps you reevaluate what your marriage _can be_, based upon the reality of your lives, and resetting your expectations.

It helps you reground yourself. It enables you to fulfill yourself, exclusive of the expectation that someone else does it. It aids you in becoming more independent within your marriage, or should your marriage fail, you know you will be just fine on your own.

In rereading your stuff, you are chalk full of expectations. I'm not saying your expectations are bad, or wrong - but they just aren't serving the greater interest of where your relationship is at right now.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo,
I know without a doubt you are right. I will take the steps to work on me first. I also think that now I feel like I "deserve" and "expect" certain things. I think sometimes he feels he can't come up for air because of it. A roadblock if you will. Thank you again for all of your input. Having somebody else reflect back their thoughts about my behavior has been a wakeup call.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Deejo,
> I know without a doubt you are right. I will take the steps to work on me first. I also think that now I feel like I "deserve" and "expect" certain things. I think sometimes he feels he can't come up for air because of it. A roadblock if you will. Thank you again for all of your input. Having somebody else reflect back their thoughts about my behavior has been a wakeup call.


Richard Schwartz has many of the answers you seek.

You will be really surprised at the level of tranquility in your life once you read what he has to say.

Right now, you're engaged in what he refers to as "Head Above Water Happiness", where your outlook and virtually your entire being hinges on the next emotional interaction with him.

No matter what he does, it won't satisfy. Something will be wrong.

Once you are right with yourself, it will be "relatively" easy to see what to do.

The title of his book will turn you off. It's called, "You are the one you've been waiting for".

Best book I've ever read.


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