# Overly focused on money



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

My husband is obsessed with money; not necessarily making it, but with living with high anxiety about it. Since he makes more and I do depend on him the prevailing atmosphere is always fearful. He seems incapable of relaxing about it. We have been over it together many, many times and I'm worn out. I made the mistake of giving up my power and relying on his decisions and frame of mind. I want my self back! I enjoyed life and did not always make it about money. In addition, he doesn't smell the roses or look for the silver lining. I seem to live a separate compartmentalized lifestyle within the marriage and always look for ways to stay happy, feel good and make life about people, relationships, love etc. while he is focusing on bills and expenses.
I think he has Aspergers or is a Narcissist or both! Help me think straight and not feel guilty for being low-income. He resents I don't make enough money.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Do you have children?




TryingTilda said:


> My husband is obsessed with money; not necessarily making it, but with living with high anxiety about it. Since he makes more and I do depend on him the prevailing atmosphere is always fearful. He seems incapable of relaxing about it. We have been over it together many, many times and I'm worn out. I made the mistake of giving up my power and relying on his decisions and frame of mind. I want my self back! I enjoyed life and did not always make it about money. In addition, he doesn't smell the roses or look for the silver lining. I seem to live a separate compartmentalized lifestyle within the marriage and always look for ways to stay happy, feel good and make life about people, relationships, love etc. while he is focusing on bills and expenses.
> I think he has Aspergers or is a Narcissist or both! Help me think straight and not feel guilty for being low-income. He resents I don't make enough money.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

No kids. I work but just don't make as much as he does. He makes about 60,000.00. He puts $200.00 a month into a joint account. He pays the majority of the bills. I live on my income and never ask for money. It's sick.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Trying,

He has a serious anxiety disorder. If he is willing to see a therapist, he should try that. If he isn't, you have to decide if you want to live like this the rest of your life. 



[/B]


TryingTilda said:


> No kids. I work but just don't make as much as he does. He makes about 60,000.00. He puts $200.00 a month into a joint account. He pays the majority of the bills. I live on my income and never ask for money. It's sick.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

You're exactly right! If it wasn't such a major, day-to-day part of our daily life I could ignore it more. Just to cope, I've been creating my own accounts and going about my business without him as much. He does go to therapy about twice a year and was diagnosed with major anxiety. I don't know why I let him guilt me so much.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

A man and his money, I'd just get on with things. If he's so much in love with it, more fool him, never known anyone who's last dying words were 'I wished I'd saved more'. Laugh and enjoy, life is over in a blip xxx


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Does he have debts, housing expenses etc that are using up the majority of his income? It is possible to have an OK income, but to have committed yourself to more than you can easily afford.

If he doesn't have large ongoing expenses, how does he spend the money?


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

You haven't really said what your financial picture is like. Income is only half the picture. It is possible to make double what you guys make and still be in a precarious position financially. 

My wife isn't a big spender, but she is an over-spender and her reasons for it are like yours. Growing up, her family had to do without many things because the budget didn't allow for them. She took the exact wrong lesson from that experience, namely that budgets are bad. So she doesn't like to think in terms of necessities and luxuries. If she wants something she feels like she needs it. When she doesn't get it she feels deprived. She likes her credit cards. 

I don't know what your overall approach to money is. Your husband may be over the top. I don't know. Why does he get anxious about it? Was he close to bankruptcy at one point? Did his family have money trouble when he was young? Did you two have problems with money at one point?


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

I dunno said:


> A man and his money, I'd just get on with things. If he's so much in love with it, more fool him, never known anyone who's last dying words were 'I wished I'd saved more'. Laugh and enjoy, life is over in a blip xxx


Of course you can laugh and enjoy life and still make wise money decisions. Or you can open a bunch of credit cards, carry a balance on each, and enjoy life too. This isn't a man issue. It's a money and security issue. 

The people who like to spend without looking at the big picture and the people who are able to look at the big picture are like oil and water. Having fun is only part of the big picture. Having enough money to live on is only part of it.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Charge him for sex, he won't like it, especially if it's on a metre. Double the rate at weekends and public holidays. I'd also look into taking in a lodger, save enough money and go on holiday with him. My advice would be not to take things sitting down, but in this case I'd make an exception. I'm guessing he'll be oblivious to it all, in which case really go to town with the lodger. Be Good xxx


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

VermisciousKnid said:


> You haven't really said what your financial picture is like. Income is only half the picture. It is possible to make double what you guys make and still be in a precarious position financially.
> 
> My wife isn't a big spender, but she is an over-spender and her reasons for it are like yours. Growing up, her family had to do without many things because the budget didn't allow for them. She took the exact wrong lesson from that experience, namely that budgets are bad. So she doesn't like to think in terms of necessities and luxuries. If she wants something she feels like she needs it. When she doesn't get it she feels deprived. She likes her credit cards.
> 
> I don't know what your overall approach to money is. Your husband may be over the top. I don't know. Why does he get anxious about it? Was he close to bankruptcy at one point? Did his family have money trouble when he was young? Did you two have problems with money at one point?


This. A little hard to figure out what's "really going on" without more info here. In my marriage, I'm the one who does the budgets and generally has a better money/numbers sense. My wife is the kind of person who sometimes tends to think there's just some objective idea of "need" and "reasonable" regardless of your financial situation -- we need x, so we should buy it. She's not outrageous, she's not out buying expensive handbags all the time or anything, but at the same time she's full of rationalizations for why any number of purchases or decisions are ok, and she gets "stressed out" if I start actually bringing up our financial picture or what we can afford.

OP, you blame your husband for always "stressing" and "worrying" about money while you just want to "enjoy life." But at the same time, you admit you gave him all the "power" (read: responsibility) over financial decisions and bills. Sounds to me like you just did not want to be bothered with that stuff, and under the circumstances your complaint sounds a little bit whiny to me. It's easy to criticize your husband when you don't actually know what the total financial picture is. At the same time, it's also possible that he's overly anxious.

No matter what your financial picture is, the goal should be to create a rough budget that is easy to follow and liveable so that you aren't constantly bumping against its limits. Doing that leaves you more free to live your life -- for example, if you know "I can afford to spend $x per month on clothing" then you don't have to have a big to-do every time you want to buy something, it's either in the budget or not. If you budget a realistic amount for going out, then when you go out you don't have to overthink how much you're spending, because you already planned for it.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

TryingTilda said:


> No kids. I work but just don't make as much as he does. He makes about 60,000.00. He puts $200.00 a month into a joint account. He pays the majority of the bills. I live on my income and never ask for money. It's sick.


That sounds like a good deal to me. Is he spending a lot of money on dumb things? Is he running up credit cards? 

No kids.....Get another job, go back to school. Most women these days don't get to keep the money they make. They have to contribute to the big picture as well. He may have a problem, I can't tell but you do come off as a little entitled.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

The thing is, I don't know your finances, but it sounds like neither do you. The chances are that if he's making $60K before tax (so maybe $40K after depending on where you live) and paying "most of the bills" (I take that to mean housing, utilities, putting away for savings, etc.), and then additionally putting $2400 a year ($200/month) into a discretionary account for the two of you, and then you're keeping all of your salary, you might actually be winding up with more money to spend freely than you would if you pooled all of your money and paid bills out of it. You probably have a pretty nice arrangement considering the total income there.

You want us to help you not feel guilty for not making more money, but you don't want to take any responsibility for the finances of your marriage. The reality is that your husband's salary is 3/4 of what's making your lifestyle possible, and instead of appreciating that, you are demeaning him for it and asking people to help you feel even less responsibility for your own financial situation.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

I do know the financial picture. We are not lacking for anything! House is paid off, enough retirement and a cabin in Wisconsin. Yet he acts like we're struggling. I try not to adapt that attitude. I take that back, he acts like we're struggling unless he wants something. He's actually frugal, but spends a lot on eating out and groceries.
I feel like he just wants to control it and not let me make any decisions. It's always a sour subject.
When he was in high school a counselor told him to find a job and support himself, and that he could not learn and certainly was not college material. His parents helped him get a good start and he's been doing the same thing for 30 years. He's terrified of losing his job because he couldn't do anything else.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Have you tried couples counseling? Has he tried medication for his anxiety disorder?

My ex would not get help for his obvious anxiety disorder, and it contributed greatly to the break down of our marriage. 

If your h says counseling/meds are "too expensive," ask him if going through a divorce sounds less expensive. It's silly to "save" money by endangering your marriage. 

If he won't accept more help, then think about improving your career options so you can support yourself. He may feel "safe" (like he does not need to change) if he thinks you "can't" leave him. My ex did, b/c in his view, no one can afford to live alone--it's financial suicide. I didn't see it that way. If your h realizes you are prepared to go it alone, he might be more willing to compromise.

Anyone exerting excessive control over any part of the marriage is putting the marriage at risk. If you value the marriage, insist that finances be handled jointly, and insist also on therapy for the two of you. Good luck.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

TT,

You've had other threads here. What is the "real" root of your problems?? Fill us in so we can give you meaningful advice. Money and finances are not your real problem.

Just sayin'...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

VermisciousKnid said:


> You haven't really said what your financial picture is like. Income is only half the picture. It is possible to make double what you guys make and still be in a precarious position financially.
> 
> I don't know what your overall approach to money is. Your husband may be over the top. I don't know. Why does he get anxious about it? Was he close to bankruptcy at one point? Did his family have money trouble when he was young? Did you two have problems with money at one point?


It's important to note that $60k is just not much money in some parts. I live in SoCal and make $75k, and the only reason my future is secure is I own a home (mortgage is less than most apartment rent) and work close-by (minimal commute cost).

He probably is going about it the wrong way, but maybe he's just trying to get you to take your futures seriously. He probably does not want to greet customers at Wal-Mart or Home Depot in his later years. 

Being the bread-winner is a tough responsibility. Unless you've done it, it's hard to appreciate how it feels knowing the family relies on you and the economy goes bad, or your company has layoffs, or everything is more expensive yet your company is not giving raises because so many still don't have jobs.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

Thank you all for the feedback, constructive criticism included. And you are right on Sisters359. We have tried (and failed) counseling together. He IS on medication for anxiety, but not enough. He does have serious anxiety issues and perhaps other underlying issues. I care about him, but I cannot fix him. It is up to him to get help for himself.
BTW, I have been improving my financial status.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

If the house is paid off and you have nothing to worry about, what does he claim is the financial issue he's worried about? Sometimes with an anxious person it's important to not be completely dismissive of their worries. I can't tell from your posts if he really is worried about "nothing" or if there's something that actually concerns him, but either way, it can be helpful to acknowledge his concerns and try to show him you at least are taking them seriously instead of brushing them off, which sometimes makes an anxious person more anxious.


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Your first post said that he's a narcissist or has Aspergers. I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion or if it is correct, but if it is, then his money issues are secondary to his personality issues. 

And you describe your situation as being financially secure, but that's a relative thing. You should ask him how secure he feels. Imagine if he got laid off and couldn't find a job. How many lifestyle changes would be needed? How quickly would you burn through your cash reserves? 

As far as the way he treats your spending on extras versus his spending on extras, that sounds out of line. In my book, they should be treated the same. He shouldn't be buying frivolous fun stuff and denying you the same.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

VermisciousKnid said:


> Your first post said that he's a narcissist or has Aspergers. I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion or if it is correct, but if it is, then his money issues are secondary to his personality issues.
> 
> And you describe your situation as being financially secure, but that's a relative thing. You should ask him how secure he feels. Imagine if he got laid off and couldn't find a job. How many lifestyle changes would be needed? How quickly would you burn through your cash reserves?
> 
> As far as the way he treats your spending on extras versus his spending on extras, that sounds out of line. In my book, they should be treated the same. He shouldn't be buying frivolous fun stuff and denying you the same.


I agree.....If you married a true narcissist, then you got bigger problems than money.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Asperger's and narcissism are such different conditions that I'm not sure the OP has a clear grasp on what they are.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

I don't know how to cut and paste a quote so I will try and answer thoughtfully here.
He has had 2 neuropsychological tests that showed a lot of issues: one possibly a little Aspergers. Definitely personality issues, learning disabilities and the main diagnosis was severe anxiety. I've read a lot on Aspergers online.
Why I'm confused is that Asperger's and Narcissism are similar. I'm trying to stay focused on myself, but it would be a relief to really know where he's coming from.
The biggest problem is that he dialogues (talks) a lot like we're broke! His conversations, which are minimal, are always about how to save money and getting a deal. I think we are doing fabulous financially! I'm not sure what he actually fears, but I think it's being unemployed because his high school counselor said he "couldn't learn".
I went back to school and got a Master's and paid for it by myself as much as I could..so I am starting over. I thought he would change and drop some of the money fear and obsession, but he has not. I love my job! He said: "The MS didn't pay off" and "Half that degree is mine"!!
He also promised to do something after I graduated to improve his income but he hasn't and when I bring it up he ignores me.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

TryingTilda said:


> No kids. I work but just don't make as much as he does. He makes about 60,000.00. He puts $200.00 a month into a joint account. He pays the majority of the bills. I live on my income and never ask for money. It's sick.


If he pays the majority of bills, how are you living on your own money? He puts $200 a month in an account you have free access to, so you're getting the value of whatever he pays for bills plus $200 a month, whether you ask for it or not. My wife rarely asks me for money, either, but the mortgage gets paid, car insurance, life insurance, health insurance, taxes, gas in the car, food on the table, the electric, gas, water, cable, internet, all gets magically paid. 
I'm not sure what "majority" of bills means at your house. I pay 100% of them at mine. If your husband is paying 70%, he is carrying 70% of the responsibility and it'd be logical for him to feel at least twice the anxiety about bills as you feel.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

I pay for my car and all it's related expenses. My school loan, my phone, clothes and household items and groceries that I share. I make $1,600.00 a month-2 pt. jobs. I also pay for our pets.

He pays utilities, insurance and the cabin which is $800.00 a month. He brings home about $850.00 a week. He also buys groceries. The $200.00 is his way of sharing his income. I really don't know if this is fair or what. If something bothers him I wish he would just say or fix it.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

TryingTilda said:


> I went back to school and got a Master's and paid for it by myself as much as I could..so I am starting over. I thought he would change and drop some of the money fear and obsession, but he has not. I love my job! He said: "The MS didn't pay off" and "Half that degree is mine"!!
> He also promised to do something after I graduated to improve his income but he hasn't and when I bring it up he ignores me.


Here I feel like you're having a bit of an unfair double standard. On one hand, you PAID money to get a master's degree that did not improve your income, as far as I can tell. Now you actually have money going out the door every month to pay off the debt, and yet you're only bringing home $1600/mo. But you think that's ok as long as you "love your job." Meanwhile, you think he ought to be doing something to improve HIS income -- don't you think that seems a bit unfair?

I have to also wonder if you are really "fine" for retirement -- what are you basing that on? How do you know? And if so, what is he worrying about?


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Ultimately, if the issue is that you feel like you don't have enough money to spend, you should talk to him about it. If he insists that's all you two can afford, get him to show you the budget and exactly why the numbers don't permit more discretionary income. That's really the only answer to that problem.

I can't tell from your post if it's the "anxiety" that bothers you or the fact that you think he's tight with the money. If you could actually look at the full numbers it might help you figure out whether he's really being a miser or not.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

What bothers me is that because of his anxiety about money the marriage is almost joyless. And because he doesn't acknowledge my contribution very often. I've spent 20 years figuring it out and trying to fix it. I grew up very poor but overcame a lot. I wish I would get a crumb of respect for that instead of what feels like resentment for trying to take his money.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

TryingTilda said:


> What bothers me is that because of his anxiety about money the marriage is almost joyless. And because he doesn't acknowledge my contribution very often. I've spent 20 years figuring it out and trying to fix it. I grew up very poor but overcame a lot. I wish I would get a crumb of respect for that instead of what feels like resentment for trying to take his money.


I'm not doubting any of that. But marriages are a two-way street. It sounds like you also feel resentment for what you perceive as being tight with money, and also for not earning more. You have a lot of history behind the two of you. I'm guessing this is more complicated than you are making it out to be, that you have some history of issues between the two of you about money, about the degree, etc. 

If your marriage is "joyless" that also goes beyond money. But it sounds like you are getting into kind of an "I'm right, he's wrong" mentality. Whatever is wrong with your marriage is clearly only his fault in your mind, because he's "overly focused on money" and maybe a "narcissist" (which you haven't presented ANY evidence of, by the way). I'm guessing if your husband were here, he'd have a bone or two to pick with you too. Nothing can get resolved in a marriage when we don't recognize how both partners contribute to the problem, and that both sides have feelings and grievances (even if some of them are "wrong"). Obviously there are exceptions -- cheating, drug addiction, abuse, but short of those things, most problems are contributed to by both people. 

Maybe your husband would say "She takes no responsibility for our financial situation, and she's perfectly happy to earn a small salary in spite of all this money we paid for her degree. All the pressure is on me to make sure we're ok and to manage our money. Yet she wants to spend more, and resents me over it." Maybe he gets even more anxious because he doesn't feel like you acknowledge his concerns at all. See what I mean?


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

In my experience dealing with a spouse who suffers from anxiety, the WORST things you can say are "Come on, you're being ridiculous" or "get over it" or "stop worrying so much" or "you're making a big deal out of nothing." This only feeds the anxiety. Often the anxious person is really hungry to be acknowledged and taken seriously, and brushing them off just makes it worse.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

John, I do see what you mean. You've given me some good things to consider and think about.
There is a lot of history and we haven't resolved things along the way. I'm not always patient about his anxiety because I think he should get more help for it.
I think he does resent I don't make more money, but it's not for a lack of trying. I never expected that kind of resentment. I guess I thought in marriage you help heal the other person's wounds and help make their life better and that the pot of money was for the relationship. I don't think he sees it that way. If I knew for sure I would accept that.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

TryingTilda said:


> John, I do see what you mean. You've given me some good things to consider and think about.
> There is a lot of history and we haven't resolved things along the way. I'm not always patient about his anxiety because I think he should get more help for it.
> I think he does resent I don't make more money, but it's not for a lack of trying. I never expected that kind of resentment. I guess I thought in marriage you help heal the other person's wounds and help make their life better and that the pot of money was for the relationship. I don't think he sees it that way. If I knew for sure I would accept that.


I see it that way too, it's one pot. We have joint accounts for everything. Is there a reason you don't? Was that solely his idea? Did you want it that way? 

At the same time, this goes both ways too -- it's one pot means you're both responsible for it. You admit that you didn't really want to take on the responsibility, so that fell on him. If you want equal sharing, you have to take both the good and the bad of it.

I don't know how hard you tried or didn't try to earn more money, but, again, you do seem to think he should earn more money, even at the same time as you don't think it's fair for him to want you to earn more money. I could see this disparity making sense maybe if you had kids at home and you were shouldering more of the childcare or home duties, but it doesn't seem like that's what's going on (you haven't mentioned kids being at home). In our marriage, for example, I earn significantly more money, but her shorter hours give her time to do more of the cooking and childcare. I wouldn't ask her to earn more because this already works very well for us.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Let's see: you have the MS and bring in a paltry $1600/mo which basically goes to your needs alone. He has a high school diploma and is earning decent money and paying all the bills, but you resent he isn't trying to make more? While stating you have an easy going attitude around money?

No wonder he has anxiety. He's trying to wrap his head around the incongruities.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Ok, I went and read OP's other thread -- hoo boy, this is a mess.


----------



## Mr.D.E.B.T. (Jul 19, 2012)

It sounds like both of you need to work on ways to validate each other. The financial differences sound more like symptoms than the actual problem. If you both are at the point where you view each other as an obstacle, try to work on that first.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

There are valid reasons why I don't make more right now, but I don't want to get into it. It's really irrelevant. Like I said it wasn't for the lack of trying. I do pick up the slack since he makes more right now. I do expect him to pay more because he makes more. I don't put any additional strain on him and I appreciate it. 
Just today he said, in his usual dark-cloud demeanor, "things have never been tighter". See, I don't know how he can say that. And it was directed at me, somewhat. House is paid, more retirement than we need. He bummed out my day!
I think it's the only way he knows how to feel. His family owned a business and I think his parents always made him feel worried. He just does not know how to find inner joy.
I've separated my soul from his because I can't live like that and feel his feelings. I was feeling joyful because I went to a gardening seminar yesterday and was thinking about gardens, but he killed that for me.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TT, 

In a previous thread you said that your husband was born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and that he has also been diagnosed with some aspects of Asperger. 

You are dealing with a guy who has some difficult issues and have been doing it for some time. I'm sure it's hard to separate out what of all this is related to his mental health issues and what of it is related to other things.

Your best bet would be to do whatever you can to increase your income. You don't say what you got your MS in, but at least at this point, I agree with your husband. You used your inheritance to pay for part of it. He supported you through it. And you are still paying student loans. That sounds like a HUGE expenditure on a degree that is not returning anything enough to pay for itself. I think that instead of you being defensive about it, it might help if you acknowledge to him that at least at this point, that MS is not paying off.

I get the impression that you going back for this MS was a unilateral decision that you made. Was he against it? Did he agree with you doing it?

One thing that might help is for you to start getting more involved in your finances. It might be hard to do since you have allowed him to have complete control for 22 years. So you would need to take small steps with the goal of eventually having everything out in the open with you knowing what your situation is.

You say that you two have plenty for retirement. How is that held? Is it in his 401k? his savings? joint savings? etc? 

Do you know what your bills are.. I mean "your" as in all of the bills the two of you have?


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Money can be a terrible curse, sure, it buys you lots of bling but you have to ask yourself...am I a better person for it? Go forth in the knowledge you don't have the headache of counting the stuff out. Where's that cup of tea? Heaven xxx


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

Ele...good stuff, good feedback.
Answers: My MS was in technical writing, 3.3 gpa. I did 2 internships and am now working as a technology rep and part time test scorer. Love it. Also, newspaper delivery job.
3 401ks in his name, about $600,000.00. I have a Roth and just started 401k. My retirement - $21,000.00. We acquired all of these during our marriage.
I am 5 years older. Yesterday when talking about my retirement (because I am older) he got upset when I suggested we could roll over from the "big" account to my account when the time came, mostly likely he will still be working when I retire. 
Toda, I think I will try and just "take over" some bills; when I've tried to work "with" him, he will not let me. He has a hard time working together. He sees things black/white. I think Aspies struggle with gray areas.
He is very remorseful today about 401k comment. Yesterday, he said I could not roll-over any of the retirement if there were fees. I was hoping he/we would find some joy in my ability to retire some day. I am 59.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

As far as the expense for the MS. He probably didn't understand the full expense, nor did I totally. To me it was worth it. I was not employable with my old degree. I tried not to inconvenience him financially while in school, I worked at Subway and a newspaper route and the airport. He did pay the bills. Basically we have different ideas about what is considered poor. I did take out a loan and owe $19,000.00, $260.00 a month. Again, worth it to me and totally manageable. I don't concern him at all and his name is not on it. Whenever I try to talk to him about his discomfort with money he gets anxious and backtracks.
We went to a free financial planner (I arranged) she gave us a great plan--he didn't keep up. He puts almost everything on one Visa card and hopes he has the money at the end of the month to pay it. Lots of times he carries a balance he can't pay. I've suggested using cash for groceries and eating out - sometimes he uses cash.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Tilda, I think the advice of trying to find a way to earn more money yourself is good. $20,000/year is a pretty small amount of money for someone with a college degree, let alone a master's (wasn't clear if that was before or after tax, but even after tax it's not a lot).

The thing is, if you stay, this could improve your marriage, and if you leave, it will make you more able to be independent, so it's a win-win. The downside is it might mean that you don't "love" your job as much, but sometimes you can't have everything. If you want out of your marriage, you will need to be financially independent, and if you want to stay, it might help ease the tension if you were earning more. I know the economy is bad, but it's hard for me to see an excuse for why you can't bring in more money unless it's a health issue or something.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

John-thanks. I had health issues in the past that affected my employment. They are cleared up now and I am on a positive forward track. He doesn't see that I started over for the both of us..and how things can be better! Maybe I should give him more time to grasp that. I got the degree 3 years ago.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

TryingTilda said:


> John-thanks. I had health issues in the past that affected my employment. They are cleared up now and I am on a positive forward track. He doesn't see that I started over for the both of us..and how things can be better! Maybe I should give him more time to grasp that. I got the degree 3 years ago.


Tilda, I'm sorry to keep hammering this point, but I'm really with your husband on this one. At the moment, you have only set yourself back financially with this degree, and it's been three years now and you're still earning very little. Claims that you did this "for both of us" are meaningless right now -- the proof is in the pudding. I don't blame him for being resentful, and I think it's not fair of you to expect him to be happy about the situation. What you're telling me is that you work part time, make little money, and love your job. That's not for both of you, that's just for you. If you want to do something for both of you, go earn more money.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

I still job search. I took the first job that was offered to me so I didn't get further behind. There was hope of going FT with this company. But you make good points. How much should I be making at 59?


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

TryingTilda said:


> I still job search. I took the first job that was offered to me so I didn't get further behind. There was hope of going FT with this company. But you make good points. How much should I be making at 59?


I really can't tell you that, especially without knowing your field, but google tells me that the median income (i.e. 50% make more, 50% make less) for people with a bachelor's degree is about $47,000/year, and the median for a master's degree is about $62,000/year. At a minimum, I would think your goal should be to earn more than you did before the master's, or else what was the point? I realize that starting in a field in your mid-50s has its disadvantages with regard to job searching, but then again, isn't that something you considered when you decided to do the master's? It just sounds like there was a slight lack of realistic planning and thinking on your part, although I'm reading between the lines and assuming a lot.

I can't tell you exactly how to improve your career, but I can tell you that, as long as you are with your husband, maybe you should change your attitude about this subject. You seem to resent HIM for not "appreciating" that you did this degree, when it has actually not produced any benefit so far and may have even worsened your financial situation. 

Imagine if your husband left his job to start a business, took out a big loan to start the business, and then his business brought in less income than his job, plus you had to pay back the debt. And let's say that he wasn't exactly hustling to make his business work either. Let's say that meant you had to give up the cabin, or buy cheaper food, or not take a vacation, or you were in worse shape for retirement. Would you "appreciate" that, or would you feel stressed out about the cuts you would have to make to your lifestyle?


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

If your husband truly loves you then he should stand by you. Regardless of your degree, it's a piece of paper. If he's looking for financial reward and only sees the $$$ signs, then perhaps you need to talk things through. People change, sometimes for the worst and become focused on things which don't necessarily enrich the relationship. Celebrate your achievements and leave the negativeness with him. The Very Best, keep warm xxx


----------



## BeautyBeast (Feb 3, 2015)

I am 40, making 90K, and I don't mind taking your husband over with all his "disorders" and "negative" thinking. You can take mine instead- a 51 y. o. guy is making 140K, spends them all, because he likes "enjoying life", not capable of saving or anything. I am the one having pension plan, savings etc. Paying my bills, never asking hubby for money. Trade?  I guess if this ever happened, you would have learned a lot


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

BeautyBeast said:


> I am 40, making 90K, and I don't mind taking your husband over with all his "disorders" and "negative" thinking. You can take mine instead- a 51 y. o. guy is making 140K, spends them all, because he likes "enjoying life",


Actually, no thanks. I like the enjoys life part though. We went to a financial planner and it was a really helpful plan she set up for us. I still do it with my own income. Husband reverted back to his old ways.

Got my W2's yesterday...I believe I could survive on my own now. Great feeling!

I highly, highly suggest going to a financial planner to show you how to set up a budget. Even though I do it myself it gives me a lot of security and a feeling of control over my life. It's amazing how much you can do without if you have to. And having some money saved is a good feeling.


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

[QUOTE

I can't tell you exactly how to improve your career, but I can tell you that, as long as you are with your husband, maybe you should change your attitude about this subject. [/QUOTE]

I know I have to change my attitude. The truth is, now I see, I expected him to understand and have compassion for my background and the unusual life I lead. Basically I had a teenage mother that left when I was 13 and I was on my own thereafter it was hard. And a health issue...the odds were against me. I think he should've taken into consideration. I don't want to answer any questions about my childhood or dwell on it, but I think I thought he fully understood why I was lower income. I thought I tried to explain it to him, but it is hard for people to relate. It might sound like I didn't take responsibility along the way, but I have. As far as this being a mess, perhaps, but now I am very clear headed and on the mend.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Money is fleeting, love isn't. If I could choose between the two, it would be love every time. The thirst for money is never satisfied, people mistake it for love, admiration, belonging. They are sadly misguided and will inevitably pay the price. Be true to yourself, always xxx


----------



## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Tilda, change your perspective on your husband. He is five years younger than you and have a much lesser degree of education. That makes you a cougar. He is taking care of you instead of you taking care of him. Most women who I worked with will trade places with you anytime.

My husband is the same age as you and takes care of all the bookkeeping and payment of bills. Our accounts are all joint. We have no debts and no mortgage. Valentines is coming and I don't want anything. I'm 57 years of age and have too much stuff already. He asked: "what's the matter, am I not too cheap for you"? His statement made me laugh so hard.

Enjoying life and be reckless with your finances can be very disastrous to your retirement plans. At least, your husband is responsible to save for your retirement. You can do worse for a husband. Be grateful for his efforts.


----------



## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

I dunno said:


> Money is fleeting, love isn't. If I could choose between the two, it would be love every time. The thirst for money is never satisfied, people mistake it for love, admiration, belonging. They are sadly misguided and will inevitably pay the price. Be true to yourself, always xxx


Marriages can be destroyed over financial problems that destroy the trust between spouses. You can pick love and then destroy it by ignoring money issues. 

It isn't an either/or proposition. Pick love and then behave responsibly. Don't act like money is there solely for your pleasure "because you can't take it with you".

Of course everyone agrees that money isn't a substitute for love, but that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about the security and peace of mind that comes from knowing that you will be able to keep a roof over your head, buy food, and keep your family clothed even if some unforeseen circumstance rendered me unable to work. 

Maybe this mind set is foreign to some people? I've never been on any kind of public assistance since I entered the workforce thirty years ago. I've supported my family of five and saved along the way. I don't thirst for money. I plan with it.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Love is the truth, Love is eternal......anything else is secondary. Be Good xxx


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

TryingTilda said:


> I know I have to change my attitude. The truth is, now I see, I expected him to understand and have compassion for my background and the unusual life I lead. Basically I had a teenage mother that left when I was 13 and I was on my own thereafter it was hard. And a health issue...the odds were against me. I think he should've taken into consideration. I don't want to answer any questions about my childhood or dwell on it, but I think I thought he fully understood why I was lower income. I thought I tried to explain it to him, but it is hard for people to relate.


I know it sounds harsh, but the truth likely is your H expected you to bring a healthy self to marriage. IOW, he did not expect to pay a price for stuff that happened before him. Did you tell your H before marriage you expected to be handled with kid gloves to a certain extent?

My ex pulled something similar. She had promised to meet my needs as my wife, then after marriage was "XYZ happened to me when I was a kid. I have issues and it's not fair to expect me to do ABC. I deserve a free pass". My thoughts were "that did not happen while we were together and you did not tell me. You don't get a free pass."

Another consideration is you seem perfectly capable of significant financial contribution. If you can earn an advanced degree then you can learn a marketable skill and get a good job. You chose to either get that degree in something not lucrative or to just sit on it.

You really should apply the Golden Rule to your home situation. Treat him the same way you expect to be treated. Do not demand something for yourself he cannot do at the same time. Where would your family be if he was as passive at bringing home an income as you?

Are you starting to see why he's so stressed sometimes? He knows that if his job goes away his earnings will take a permanent hit, and he knows that he needs to support both of you since you don't intend to make enough to contribute meaningfully to the family.


----------



## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

TryingTilda said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> I can't tell you exactly how to improve your career, but I can tell you that, as long as you are with your husband, maybe you should change your attitude about this subject.


I know I have to change my attitude. The truth is, now I see, I expected him to understand and have compassion for my background and the unusual life I lead. Basically I had a teenage mother that left when I was 13 and I was on my own thereafter it was hard. And a health issue...the odds were against me. I think he should've taken into consideration. I don't want to answer any questions about my childhood or dwell on it, but I think I thought he fully understood why I was lower income. I thought I tried to explain it to him, but it is hard for people to relate. It might sound like I didn't take responsibility along the way, but I have. As far as this being a mess, perhaps, but now I am very clear headed and on the mend.[/QUOTE]

Agree with the poster above me. Adults don't generally get special consideration in life, work or marriage, no matter what their childhood was like. Don't make excuses.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Just tell him you love him, again and again and again. Embarrassing, I know, but you have to fight it with LOVE, it's the only way. LOVE, such a lovely word don't you think? Put the kettle on xxx


----------



## TryingTilda (Apr 21, 2014)

Before we got married it was full disclosure about my background. Looking back, I don't think he really understood though. I'm not financially irresponsible at all. I don't know why people misinterpret that. Going forward, if I abide by these guidelines I know he is much more comfortable: don't use the joint Visa that he pays, (I haven't for a year anyway), don't ask him for money, don't use the account he deposits 200 hundred dollars in, don't remark about him eating out all the time, support him when he worries about bills, don't remind him we are joint - he likes it separate, expect him to say no when I offer to take over a bill, but to come back and express worry to me about it.
The problem is when there is all this effort put into his money\my money it interferes with a close relationship.
I admit I thought it was joint from the get-go; it's not. I'm glad I figured it out.


----------



## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

You have to abide by your own rules, I'd try and get on with your life. You can't be accountable to everyone, it sounds like you're trying to please too many people and getting very little for it, it'll send you nuts. Just be as nice as you possibly can without sacrificing too much. Love and Hugs xxx


----------

