# At wits end



## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

I am just at my wits end. 

Fight after fight after fight. 90% of the time they are about our son. His bio son, my adopted son. I'm too this or too that.

Yes, I am high strung. I don't like talk back and I don't like attitude. And I don't stand for it. Period. H does. Fine. But don't critisize me in front of S. I hate that!

But every time without fail, we have an argument and then he holds a grudge for x amount of time. It varies. He is passive aggressive, in my opinion. Polite but chilly. And he's quicker to blow up at me the next time. It's getting old.

I cannot change him. I can only change me. I know my high strung nature is a HUGE cause of this. I want to change me and stop being so high strung but my GOD is it hard. I just don't know what to do anymore. I ignore and I leave the room sometimes if I feel things are getting to the point I'm being unresonable and high strung.

But I mess up. And every time I hear about it. But goodness, what about the times I bit my tongue. Do I hear about that? Nope.

Right now this is the chilliest longest stretch every. I'm ready to explode. I did a small bit last night. Telling him if he's checked out of the marriage emotionally just let me know so I can do the same.

"I'm fine" is all I ever get. I don't know who he thinks he's kidding. It's not fine. He hasn't touched me (not a kiss, not a slight touch, nothing) since Thursday.

Yes, it was a great valentine's day. Didn't even go out for family weekly dinner cause he was "moping" (my word). 

AAARRGGHHH!!!!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

The main reason things have got to this state is that your sex life has gone down a black hole. Unless you fix it, you will end up completely frozen.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> I think that is the exact case in my house. Hubby wants it 3-4 times a week. I'm good with once a month. But when we were dating it was 7 times a week.
> 
> What happened to me? Well life took over. That is normal. But I do want that intimacy back.
> 
> ...


The reason you're not horny towards him is partly his own fault. Read this, and see if anything applies: Sexless Marraige?


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Thanks, you have been a great help! Gonna read that link now.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Ok I fall into the resentment and lack of romance category. But I don't see where there might be a solution. What is it that _I_ can do to better this?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

First we need more information... explain this:



Margaret said:


> *I get turned down... *but I never turn down.... (though I will yawn a lot if I can tell he's feeling in the mood and I'm not).


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

He turns me down sometimes. I never hold it against him.

I pushed away some flirting he was doing last week and 2 days later flirted with him and was told "I tried that already" which was a slap in the face for not being in the mood.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> Ok I fall into the resentment and lack of romance category. But I don't see where there might be a solution. What is it that _I_ can do to better this?


The resentment is key... the romance is important too, but we can come back to that.

List your main resentments, worst first.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

My main resentment feeling like a maid. He complains that our house is cluttered. Yet it's his crap all over the place. He won't rinse food off dishes so I have to do it. He drops crumbs on the floor and leaves it there. 

The maid will do it.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margret -

By the way... you read and write at ferocious speed!

You are not going deep enough with the resentments. Give me the dirt. What's really pissing you off about him? Hit me with it!


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

HA, yes I do. 

Deeper?

Hmm...... It's just that. I can't sit in my favorite chair becasue his coats are piled in there. I stub my toe in the bedroom all the time cause his shoes are in the doorway to the closet (I keep most lights off so I don't wake him). 

He drops food on the floor doesn't pick it up. Doesn't put plates in the dishwasher or does but doesn't rinse off food.

He treats me like a maid.

Next: kid. He treats kid like a king. It's his bio and I adopted the kid. I get a very routine hello. He alwasy sounds excited to see kid. Totally different SINCERE tone of voice. When I make dinner, I get a very insincere sounding THANKS. He comes home and I get the routine hello how was your day. Yet he doesn't hear the answer. Kid gets H sounding darn excited to see him.

Next: If H is watching TV or on the computer it's pointless to talk to him. I told him last week "i have to go to accountant before work". Later "oh I didn't know you were doing that before work". He's actually cranked the volume of the tv before because I came in chatting and he was watching something. But he's ALWAYS watching something. When he's on the computer, I get tired of talking to the back of his head. He's getting better about that one, but it's part of the restentment. I feel like a stupid child for having to say "can i talk to you" if he has the tv on. 

Deep enough?


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

adding this latest one

He want lunch at any hour of the day on weekends. So I was frustrated that I felt like a cook. Alwasy in the kitchen. Breakfast for him. Coffees for us. Lunch for kid. Lunch 1 -2 hours later for H. 

He got mad at me saying I was being selfish askinghim to conform and he should be able to eat what he wants when he wants.

Fine. I don't want him cooking in my ktichen. He won't clean and I'll feel like a maid again. So just give me some notice, I'll cook you something. We have not talked yet about the notice thing.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> Deep enough?


That's getting more like it. Is there any more - the real evil stuff? So fare the middle one is sounding worse - the kid versus you. I want you to render it all down and give me the most gut wrenching account of the resentment. 

Then... we can talk about sex.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Hmm I don't think there is anything really evil. He picks on me and sometimes I think he's verbally abusive. We have a new kitten and she has given us a heck of a time with the sleeping. One night I felt really bad neither one of us were sleeping. So I went on the couch (kitten went with me) so he colud sleep.

He got pissed as all get out and told me not to bother coming back to the bedroom I might as well start sleeping in the spare room.

He complains that we have tho same foods all the time. I learned new recipes. I work full time plus for our side job which i do 90% of the work. I ask for dinner requests for the week and get "nothing" but then complains "that doesn't sound good". He's very hard to please in the stomach. So I cringe every night before dinner hoping he'll want what I serve.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

How old are you, and how long have you been together?


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

He used to want to play in the bedroom. We did a fair amount when we were first married. When we were first married the kid was with his mother on weekends.

Then kid with us 100% of the time. We joined a website and made "money" off sexy pictures of me. I grew to not like it anymore.

He resents that I resent ever letting it get started in the first place. It was fun for a while but he liked raunchier pictures than I was willing to take.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

I am 35 and we just passed our 7th anniversary. He is 43.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> What happened to me? Well life took over. That is normal. But I do want that intimacy back.


Wait... the computer is whirring...
Fizzle pop! $£"%$£^!

OK here is the verdict:
Your lack of desire for him has nothing to do with "life taking over" or the age of the relationship. You are simply fed up of:

a)Being under-appreciated.
b)Being treated like dirt.

Have a chat with him and say if he wants a better sex life, you'll swap sex for better treatment.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Wait... the computer is whirring...
> Fizzle pop! $£"%$£^!
> 
> OK here is the verdict:
> ...


But really how can I treat him any better? I do EVERYTHING inside the house and sometimes help with outside stuff. How can I force myself to have sex? I know I'll enjoy it again when the marriage gets happier from him being happier from more sex, but what about in the mean time? 

and right now he's still cold from our fight so how the heck do I get him past that? Sleep naked? Brrrr!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> But really how can I treat him any better? I do EVERYTHING inside the house and sometimes help with outside stuff. How can I force myself to have sex? I know I'll enjoy it again when the marriage gets happier from him being happier from more sex, but what about in the mean time?
> 
> and right now he's still cold from our fight so how the heck do I get him past that? Sleep naked? Brrrr!


It's interesting how you misunderstood me... I wonder if you have low self esteem?

I meant he must treat *you *better, in exchange for high quality sex from you.

If he treated you better, you would *want *more sex with him. Make him read this: Romance for Men


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

OMG I totally did misread that.

Sure I have low self esteem. Who else would do EVERYTHING and demand nothing in return.

So I go to bed in something slinky and tell him "I'll give you some rocking sex if you clean up afterself if you drop/spill something".

Hmm... trying to picture his reaction...

I just read on your forum on your site that if he prevented himself from the final deed, then he might DO something about his frustrations. Yeah, stop waiting on me!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> So I go to bed in something slinky and tell him "I'll give you some rocking sex if you clean up afterself if you drop/spill something".


Now that the self esteem issue has been raised, I'm not sure if we are at this stage yet. 

You need to get out of the role of being the maid in the first place.

But by all means make a deal with him. But first... *decide who you are*.

You are clever, so you could probably have this licked in 2 or 3 days. His head will be spinning


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Oh great, I already sent him a fun light hearted email with the proposal!!!!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I dare you to give him this thread to read.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

I do not have a death wish! No one likes to read themselves complained about.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> I do not have a death wish! No one likes to read themselves complained about.


But half the men on here would kill to know why their wife will not have more and better sex with them. And when I tell them they don't believe me.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

I have told him why I'm disinterested. He just gets mad and defensive. He doesn't want to read it too. LOL


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> He doesn't want to read it too. LOL


What do you mean by that? This thread, or in general?


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

This thread.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Don't ask him, tell him!
Email him a link to this thread.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

No way on the emailing him a link to this thread. I don't want to tick him off. He hates when I get outside advice. 

In reality it's good for me... chills me out. 

But he's not responding to my email. =(


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

This is a turning point in you life.
The choices are:


You will go deeper into self-abuse, and finding people to abuse you.
You will stay the same.
You will start loving yourself more, and chose people who reflect that back to you.

I hope you keep us posted.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Ugh I have started and deleted replies to this 3 times now.

I am a good person with a good heart. My heart is always in the right place.

I think H is unhappy and taking it out on me. All I can do is work on the issues I KNOW are a sore point 

I don't like to be told I'm wrong. I can handle saying I'm wrong if I'm the one to discover I'm wrong. Being told I'm wrong sets me off. I can work on that and give him less fuel. 

I can jump his bones and make him happier. Sex fixes a lot.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I agree with all that. But don't forget to scale the heights.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Case in point. H just came home. I get a "you know I have a job right" in reply to my emailing him about the trade/sex stuff. 

Kiddo gets "hey! how was your day! why don't you go out for a bike ride. I'll get your bike! here i'll move mom's car too" 

I get a sarcastic comment... kiddo gets prince treatment... it's flat out annoying and I have no plans to follow through with any lovin.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> I agree with all that. But don't forget to scale the heights.


What do you mean?


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

I'll join in, perhaps another point of view is necessary.

From what you describe, it sounds impossible to side against you. If you really cook on demand, clean on demand, and were willing to take/post sexy pictures, you sound like quite a keeper.

I'm going to focus on a different part of this thread. A lot of times I see you presented with good advice from Mark, but you cite your husbands reaction as resistance. Why do you allow him to treat you that way?

I'll continue this shortly...


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

Sorry, got pulled away and never got to return.

Finishing the point I started, it takes two to tango, and you both played your parts. Every time you let him get away with his bad treatment just reinforced to him what was acceptable. If you avoid trying the things that are being suggested to you out of fear that "your husband won't like it", well then you are just going to be pushed further and further away from the life you want.

I also have to speculate that your husband, to some degree, has his own issues that he is upset about. No matter how good one spouse thinks he/she is being, there is almost always a gripe or two from the other side.

So just as we are going to ask him to focus on all the things you wish he did, you ALSO need to think back over times that he was upset and why. Does he, perhaps, feel that he works very hard only to come home to hostile treatment (even though from your point of view, you are nowhere near hostile?)

Could you detail for us, anything you can think of that perhaps, just maybe perhaps your husband wishes was different about you? Delve deep like you did for Mark. Don't just post stuff that you want to blame him for (ie: of course he'd like more sex but that won't happen cuz he treats me like garbage).

Also, the stuff about him telling you that you are wrong... well of course everyone hates being put down. But this is something you can control your reaction to. I'm not saying you have to lie down and take it... quite the opposite. But if you instantly blow up the moment he suggests you are wrong, then BOTH of you will stop listening and just go on the offensive, and nothing will get done.

When he tells you that you are wrong, does he have any actual substance, or is he just pulling an "I'm the man, therefore I'm right" attitude? Knowing how these conflicts start can help provide a way to stop them or even prevent them.

I hope you keep posting, I think we can make some progress.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Hello Chopblock, thanks for your comments.

I know a lot of the issues hubby has with me. I am very high strung. Little things make me tense. 

Ok so son has issue with these sports goggles. Runs to me whining again that they are fogged. I grumble and sigh and clean them yet again. Hubby gets all mad at me for being annoyed. Well I'm sick of the darn things. 

But fine I could handle that better. I agree. And yes, I can control my reaction. But I can't figure out how. It sounds so easy. Just don't blow up. 

But goodness my heart beats faster and I just get stressed FAST and I have no clue how to control it. I don't even recognize that I NEED to. Does that make sense?

His biggest complaint is that I can't be told that I'm wrong. He says it's impossible to talk to me because I don't like to be told I'm doing something wrong.

Here is how one started: son asks me why I feel a certain way about something. I explain, he interrupts to tell me his way. I put my hands up in the air after a few back and forts saying "never mind, I was just explaining". H then said IN FRONT OF SON "ok you two no reason to get tense". I felt that put me on son's level and not on the adult level and I got instantly mad. 

I NEVER question him in front of our son. That is WRONG!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> What do you mean?


Scale the heights: You aim low, and don't realise you are as important a human being as he is. Aim high - you are worth it.


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## daycaremom (Sep 8, 2008)

You adopted your son? He is your husbands biological son from another woman? Do you have any other kids or are you planning any? Do you feel that your husband takes away your rights with your son? 
I helped raise my ex's son for 6 years. He called me mom and rarely saw his biological mom until one day they decided without my input to let him move back in with her. I was crushed... But when I look back on the time he was with us it was all me. I took him to daycare and did home work and cooked the meals and did all of the day to day stuff because neighter "mom or dad" were there. I did it willingly and I love that kid who is now 18 but they always pulled the "he's not your kid card" when they wanted to make decisions without me. Even the ex's family did that to me. They gave me this child but in the end they took him from me.
I was resentful for that. So the reason I say all of this is do you resent the child? If your fighting about the child you should ask yourself why. Do you think that maybe you react a certain way with your son to provoke a response from your husband? Or do you resent your son because you feel he is treated better then you? 
I think if you can get to the root of that then the rest will fall into place.
Good Luck!


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

daycaremom said:


> You adopted your son? He is your husbands biological son from another woman? Do you have any other kids or are you planning any? Do you feel that your husband takes away your rights with your son?
> I helped raise my ex's son for 6 years. He called me mom and rarely saw his biological mom until one day they decided without my input to let him move back in with her. I was crushed... But when I look back on the time he was with us it was all me. I took him to daycare and did home work and cooked the meals and did all of the day to day stuff because neighter "mom or dad" were there. I did it willingly and I love that kid who is now 18 but they always pulled the "he's not your kid card" when they wanted to make decisions without me. Even the ex's family did that to me. They gave me this child but in the end they took him from me.
> I was resentful for that. So the reason I say all of this is do you resent the child? If your fighting about the child you should ask yourself why. Do you think that maybe you react a certain way with your son to provoke a response from your husband? Or do you resent your son because you feel he is treated better then you?
> I think if you can get to the root of that then the rest will fall into place.
> Good Luck!


H is pretty good about me helping to raise our son. But yes, his voice rules when he wants it to. I decided no kids between us because well I don't know that I'm strong enough to not treat the adopted son differently. I can only assume I'm not as loving with S as I would be with a bio child. I say that because I'm short tempered with S. In some ways I resent him for how well his dad treats him and how his dad puts him above me sometimes.

So I'm aware I resent son, but I don't know how to get past it. I know what would make my marriage fall back into place, but I'm unaware how to get there.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Scale the heights: You aim low, and don't realise you are as important a human being as he is. Aim high - you are worth it.


Any suggestions on how I can get more respect from him and how I can get more love from him rather than sarcasm and picking? No I can't ask him, I want to guide him that way. Lead him. Without him knowing it.

I've been sweet and kind and loving but that just makes me feel like a dormat cause it doesn't lead him.

Yup, he gets better when we have sex. Last night I approached him for sex and he told me no. Said that he doesn't like when I ask him "do you want to fool around". I asked for advice on howw to approach him and he didn't want to talk about it. 

I dress nice to work because he said he liked it. I dressed in a rather hot shirt earlier in the week.... showed some cleavage (well not really but as close as I'm willing to get)... nothing.

Ugh.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

He is treating you like a doormat because you are behaving like one. 



Margaret said:


> Last night I approached him for sex and he told me no. Said that he doesn't like when I ask him "do you want to fool around". I asked for advice on howw to approach him and he didn't want to talk about it.


You should let him know that you were really hurt by that interaction, and don't let him of the hook until you get his acknowledgement.

I don't understand why you think so little of yourself that you think you have to put up with his treatment. So to answer your question, you should decide what is acceptable treatment, and if he crosses the line, you should let him know firmly but without nagging or starting an argument.

But you're not there yet. You are still willing to put up with his behaviour - though not as willing as you were which is why you stated this thread. The process clearly has further to run. Good luck.

​


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Actually, I know a really sneaky way to change this, but it depends on how often you have sex...

How often is it, and is it always him who initiates?


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

I'm high strung too, and I know its not easy to deal with people like us. The smallest thing sets us off, which then just angers the other person and neither can get past it. 

There is no trick to controlling your reaction, it comes with practice. You have to identify when you are getting upset, maybe ask if the catalyst is really worth the reaction, and then just do your best to stay calm. I understand getting frustrated about irritating things like the goggles.

What sets me off is getting cut off like you said. I hate when I'm trying to do something, or say something, and I get cut off. It makes me feel unimportant, and I always try to keep talking no matter what. Either that or I erupt with a "LET ME FINISH".

We are better than that. You probably have low self-esteem and are used to that treatment because its been going on for so long. But in a REAL power game, I mean if it really came to a stand-off, are you really as bad off as you think?

Sure your husband rejects sex now, but how often does he get it? A few weeks or even a few months of withholding will change that tune real fast. People do not value that which comes too easy. Make him work harder for things.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Chopblock said:


> I'm high strung too, and I know its not easy to deal with people like us. The smallest thing sets us off, which then just angers the other person and neither can get past it.
> 
> There is no trick to controlling your reaction, it comes with practice. You have to identify when you are getting upset, maybe ask if the catalyst is really worth the reaction, and then just do your best to stay calm. I understand getting frustrated about irritating things like the goggles.
> 
> ...


You sound a lot like me. I hate being interrupted and I erupt too. Happened in the freaking shoe store tonight. How do you start to practice to stop it and let it get out of hand? I could have taped my son's mouth shut when he did that in the store.

I do have low self-esteem. I had to wear a patch as a kid and I got picked on a lot because I have goofy eyes. Talk about self image problem. To this day, in my mid 30s, I worry about my eyes.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> He is treating you like a doormat because you are behaving like one.
> 
> 
> You should let him know that you were really hurt by that interaction, and don't let him of the hook until you get his acknowledgement.
> ...


So what do you suggest I can let him know firmly that I don't want to put up with it?


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Actually, I know a really sneaky way to change this, but it depends on how often you have sex...
> 
> How often is it, and is it always him who initiates?



Right now it's been a week and a day since we had sex. Once a week is about on target for us.

It's usually him say 75% of the time becasue it seems I can't have it unless i dress sexy (but it's COLD right now) .... do share!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Well...
If you keep initiating every day... he will eventually have to say yes - which will shift the balance of power.

But you probably need to work on your self esteme first, I don't think you think highly enough of yourself.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Margaret said:


> So what do you suggest I can let him know firmly that I don't want to put up with it?


First you need to become clear in your own mind. Clear about your own self worth. Nobody will love or appreciate you more than you love and appreciate yourself.


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

You know, I do like me. I do love me. I feel that I let him walk on me. I'm not really sure why that is really. I've been standing up for me a bit more... in a way I think he can take it. I joke. He jokes. Ok.

But 2 nights ago again I get "when are you going to start wearing nighties to bed" ... ugh... come on they are uncomfortable! What I said was it's been too cold. Guess I have to do this or what?


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## Margaret (Mar 31, 2008)

Oh and I forgot to add if I initiate and he turns me down, it's his turn. In a way I view it as a reprieve from having to approach him. 

I can't approach him night after night and be rejected.


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