# Obesity and Marriage



## Buzz

I have exercised and kept my weight in control before and during our marriage. My wife has let herself go to the point of being morbidly obese. I'm embarrased to be seen with her. I have paid for gym memberships, weight control programs all without success. Is there anyone else experiencing this dilema?


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## BlueEyedBeauty

You, know you are suppose to​love your wife no matter what- and looks do not matter- it is what is in her heart that does matter... How, do you really know that your wife does not have something wrong with her that is making her gain all the weight she is gaining? Has she been having any or a lot of depression? Because that will do it for sure, is her health alright? like with her thyorid's? because that right there would be the reason on putting on a lot of weight...

I do though see why,​you are upset over this- you, did not meet her that way- you did not fall in love, with her like that. But still that is only her body though; it is not what makes her, who she is; her heart is what made her the person that she is; her heart is what gives her love to you, her devotion to you, her soul, her everything... I am sure there are also somethings your wife, does not like about you, but she is not out here posting bad things on you, saying how she cannot stand being seen with you; Love, is so precious, it is something that is rare to come by; not many people really do get the chande of having real true love and do not get to share the feeling of being in love. They all may think that they are but they aren't.

If the person is in love with that person;​they would be in love with the person insides not their looks. Looks is not what makes you who you are... Anyway, maybe if you were to go to the gym with your wife she would do this... Show her also you are working with her- loose weight with her, eat the good foods and workout with her. Make a game of it- show her how much you do love her, how much you do care for her, tell her that you will help her in everyway to lose her weight- and whatever you do, do not call her names for being over weight, nor say anything rude about it to her; it will make things so much worse and also will cause her to become ill and she will either eat even more, or stop eating all together...* *Do not say "Good she needs to stop eating, maybe then she will lose the weight** not very nice.... So you, can either be man and love her for the way she is- or you, can help your wife out by losing weight with her... 


Now, this is some good info given to you-​Even though you are not going to like what I was saying to you about true love. I also know how you, were saying 'Oh shut up you know nothing" Well, I do know things and I do know the meaning of true love and know what it feels like to be in love. You, will love that person for who and what they are- and what they have become... Point blank and I know others will say that I am right on that info given-


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## takris

My wife is not morbidly obese, but is almost as heavy as me. Frustrating part is that she has a high sex drive, and blames her obesity on negative feelings about herself and our marriage. I should mention that she has a personality disorder.

I have my own gym, and lift weights since childhood due to a mild form of arthritis, and have to stay active due to familial lipid disorder (caused angina at 26). I'm allergic to statins, so I keep levels low by aerobics and natural remedies. She's embarrassed to be seen with me in public. We've had to begin attending different churches because she will not go otherwise.

My approach has been to try to focus on acceptance and letting her know how much I love and admire her. My brother, on the other hand, is thin (runs marathons) and tells me that I should be more firm in expectations. I think that would be counterproductive.


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## Deejo

Although I appreciate your taking the time to respond to the poster, I respectfully submit that these are the same unrealistic attitudes and responses that most women submit when they see a post like Buzz's. It is always far more about making the guy feel guilty that he is no longer attracted to his fat wife, than it is about the fat wife assuming responsibility for her own appearance and well-being.

If she has no desire or inclination to want to change her lifestyle, either for herself or her family, than your options are pretty clear-cut. Accept it and deal with it, or leave.

I personally know a woman who was morbidly obese. She is a sweetheart, but she simply wasn't attractive. SHE didn't feel attractive. Her husband still loved her dearly. Over the last 15 months she has lost over 150 lbs.

Anybody can come up with a litany of excuses as to why they can't do what she did. They simply don't wash. Choose better. Choose being healthy and feeling better about yourself, over excuses why you can't, don't, or won't do something.

I personally don't have much tolerance for the excuse crowd. In no uncertain terms, I could not stay with someone whom I couldn't be physically attracted to when it comes to the issue of weight management.





BlueEyedBeauty said:


> You, know you are suppose to​love your wife no matter what- and looks do not matter- it is what is in her heart that does matter... How, do you really know that your wife does not have something wrong with her that is making her gain all the weight she is gaining? Has she been having any or a lot of depression? Because that will do it for sure, is her health alright? like with her thyorid's? because that right there would be the reason on putting on a lot of weight...
> 
> I do though see why,​you are upset over this- you, did not meet her that way- you did not fall in love, with her like that. But still that is only her body though; it is not what makes her, who she is; her heart is what made her the person that she is; her heart is what gives her love to you, her devotion to you, her soul, her everything... I am sure there are also somethings your wife, does not like about you, but she is not out here posting bad things on you, saying how she cannot stand being seen with you; Love, is so precious, it is something that is rare to come by; not many people really do get the chande of having real true love and do not get to share the feeling of being in love. They all may think that they are but they aren't.
> 
> If the person is in love with that person;​they would be in love with the person insides not their looks. Looks is not what makes you who you are... Anyway, maybe if you were to go to the gym with your wife she would do this... Show her also you are working with her- loose weight with her, eat the good foods and workout with her. Make a game of it- show her how much you do love her, how much you do care for her, tell her that you will help her in everyway to lose her weight- and whatever you do, do not call her names for being over weight, nor say anything rude about it to her; it will make things so much worse and also will cause her to become ill and she will either eat even more, or stop eating all together...* *Do not say "Good she needs to stop eating, maybe then she will lose the weight** not very nice.... So you, can either be man and love her for the way she is- or you, can help your wife out by losing weight with her...
> 
> 
> Now, this is some good info given to you-​Even though you are not going to like what I was saying to you about true love. I also know how you, were saying 'Oh shut up you know nothing" Well, I do know things and I do know the meaning of true love and know what it feels like to be in love. You, will love that person for who and what they are- and what they have become... Point blank and I know others will say that I am right on that info given-


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## MarriedWifeInLove

As someone who was grossly overweight at one time in the past (due to a medical condition), TRUST ME - she knows she's overweight - she knows what she sees in the mirror everyday, but she feels powerless to change it for some reason. There is a reason she is morbidly obese - until that reason is dealt with, she will continue to be so, whether its medical or psychological.

And I agree, its counterproductive to harp on anyone about their weight - they know that they are overweight and their loved ones pointing it out to them doesn't help (didn't work for me). 

Why not ask her to have an annual physical? You talk to her dr without her and get him/her involved. He is not as close to the problem so he might be able to help more than you and get her to see that this is a health issue that could lead to BP, diabetes and other medical problems.

Might work?


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## Deejo

Out of curiousity, how did you get beyond feeling powerless? I agree that probably describes a majority of women that find themselves in this all too common circumstance.



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> As someone who was grossly overweight at one time in the past (due to a medical condition), TRUST ME - she knows she's overweight - she knows what she sees in the mirror everyday, but she feels powerless to change it for some reason. There is a reason she is morbidly obese - until that reason is dealt with, she will continue to be so, whether its medical or psychological.
> 
> And I agree, its counterproductive to harp on anyone about their weight - they know that they are overweight and their loved ones pointing it out to them doesn't help (didn't work for me).
> 
> Why not ask her to have an annual physical? You talk to her dr without her and get him/her involved. He is not as close to the problem so he might be able to help more than you and get her to see that this is a health issue that could lead to BP, diabetes and other medical problems.
> 
> Might work?


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## takris

Deejo said:


> I personally don't have much tolerance for the excuse crowd. In no uncertain terms, I could not stay with someone whom I couldn't be physically attracted to when it comes to the issue of weight management.


Just to let you know, I only comment to your thoughts because they are similar to a (possibly) humorous discussion with my brother, who shares your feelings. 

For those who have been there, absolutes are hard to declare, knowing that fate has a way of turning things around. In my situation, my wife has serious mental health issues at times, but will always cycle out and become positive, and proactive about the weight loss. If we were to divorce, the weight won't be the reason. Just like I don't think she'll divorce me if my butt disappears with middle age, even though she jokingly declared that to be the reason she married me.


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## Deejo

Personality disorders and thyroid conditions aside, most people would rather b!tch about being fat than taking the overwhelmingly positive and beneficial steps to remedy the situation. I find that sad, and yes, it makes me angry at times.

My absolute is that I would have a difficult time having chosen a fit and healthy partner and then watching her let herself go, because she no longer feels like she has to 'try' to be attractive. I simply would not be ok with that. Illness in whatever form is different kettle of fish. But, when it comes down to it, you don't have a lot of control over the circumstances if your partner is no longer attractive to you. Beating yourself up over it doesn't do anyone any good.

I'm by no means a Narcissist. I like fried food, ice cream, salty snacks, butter, and bacon just as much as everyone else. But I think about what I'm putting in my mouth, and I exercise to keep ADD, asthma, and familial high cholesterol in check.


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## Buzz

Thanks for the input. She doesn't have any physical conditions that would cause weight gain. I,m a retired health care professional and she works at a high medical risk call center. She says she is an emotional eater but won't try counseling. She says she doesn't want it in her medical file. With our occupational backgrounds and familial histories we know the medical complications that result from obesity. I try to support her but she won't take responsibility for her actions


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## Trenton

Deejo said:


> Although I appreciate your taking the time to respond to the poster, I respectfully submit that these are the same unrealistic attitudes and responses that most women submit when they see a post like Buzz's. It is always far more about making the guy feel guilty that he is no longer attracted to his fat wife, than it is about the fat wife assuming responsibility for her own appearance and well-being.
> 
> If she has no desire or inclination to want to change her lifestyle, either for herself or her family, than your options are pretty clear-cut. Accept it and deal with it, or leave.
> 
> I personally know a woman who was morbidly obese. She is a sweetheart, but she simply wasn't attractive. SHE didn't feel attractive. Her husband still loved her dearly. Over the last 15 months she has lost over 150 lbs.
> 
> Anybody can come up with a litany of excuses as to why they can't do what she did. They simply don't wash. Choose better. Choose being healthy and feeling better about yourself, over excuses why you can't, don't, or won't do something.
> 
> I personally don't have much tolerance for the excuse crowd. In no uncertain terms, I could not stay with someone whom I couldn't be physically attracted to when it comes to the issue of weight management.


Perhaps it is the male's role in the marriage that has caused stress, or it could be a physical disorder. This is a common complaint of men but less so of women and there are plenty of fat men married to thinner wives. There are also a lot of bald ones and seriously, I would hate to have a bald husband. I wouldn't fall out of love with him if he went bald (thankfully has a full head of hair) but I'd find him less attractive. I'd get over it.

It's a big assumption to always say that the woman is lacking control and it's as simple as getting on a diet and sticking to it. I do agree that all women should stay in shape for their own health. Often times in a marriage weight is put on because of comfort, portion control and whatnot but I've also seen women get divorced and lose the 50 pounds they gained in months only to say that they were miserable in their marriage. 

I learned yesterday that I have hypothyroidism and I'm not overweight but have always had to work very hard to maintain my weight. Apparently, taking a pill once a day might change this along with other tolerable problems I had. My point is that it's possible there is an underlying medical condition as well.

My advice, talk to your wife with concern rather than judgement. Focus on why you fell in love with her and ask her if she feels anything is lacking in her life, express that you want her to live the life she dreams about.


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## takris

Buzz,
In the past, I've helped my wife lose up to 50 lbs. She considers herself an emotional eater, but its deeper. As one poster said, she knows she is overweight.

The approach I took that she credited with working was starting by walking with her. Also, we set aside some free times, where we planned a moderate treat. I suspected she was drawn to videos, so I went with her to pick out several. Daily affirmation was centered around letting her know that I saw beyond the issue to the beautiful her.

I stayed very connected to the routines instead of just leaving her to it. 

Eventually, when she began to feel the results, she took off.

Together, we took before pics, and reviewed her progress journal.

Her most succesful results are when she can find things to substitute for the emotional reliance on food. 

However, the borderline side of her is unable to live in gray areas, so she is always all or nothing, and falls out of the cycle.

I'm not suggesting that I treat her like a child - there are many areas where she picks me up when I fall behind.


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## cherrypie18

Deejo said:


> Personality disorders and thyroid conditions aside, most people would rather b!tch about being fat than taking the overwhelmingly positive and beneficial steps to remedy the situation. I find that sad, and yes, it makes me angry at times.


Exactly! Some people just enjoy being miserable like that. I had a friend from a dance class who kept telling our dance instructor that she wanted a belly like mine and the teacher told her very directly "then stop talking and do something about it instead".

If she's healthy physically and an emotional eater then possibly depression might be the cause of this. How is your marriage/relationship? 

Not trying to make this your fault but it could be a possible cause -- maybe she let herself go and doesn't care because she didn't get the attention she needed from you so she thinks it wouldn't make a difference anymore.

But also, if she doesn't want to go to counseling for the sake of her medical record then I would think she cares more about her record than her husband and marriage and more importantly herself? I had a similar situation but with my [x]husband choosing his credit record over family.

As much as you love a person, they need to keep themselves attractive for their partners. Call me shallow but it's the truth. Looks aren't everything, but they are something.


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## Zammo

The common wisdom states that a good marriage requires work.

Keeping in shape and staying healthy is _exactly _the type of work required to maintain a good marriage.

As well, maintaining one's health should really be completely independent of the current relationship. Not maintaining one's health as a reaction to not getting enough attention is childish.


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## Idontknownow

zammo said:


> keeping in shape and staying healthy is _exactly _the type of work required to maintain a good marriage.
> 
> As well, maintaining one's health should really be completely independent of the current relationship. Not maintaining one's health as a reaction to not getting enough attention is childish.


agreed!


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## Deejo

Trenton said:


> Perhaps it is the male's role in the marriage that has caused stress, or it could be a physical disorder.


Oh cripes ...


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## takris

cherrypie18 said:


> As much as you love a person, they need to keep themselves attractive for their partners. Call me shallow but it's the truth. Looks aren't everything, but they are something.


I think that when morbid obesity is involved, and it occurs after childhood, its often a symptom of something much more complex than feeling unloved or being irresponsible. And when we understand it, many are able to see it much like a woman sees a guy who loses his hair. Maybe I'm wrong. For others, its a dealbreaker.

I'm primarily confronted with it because of a career where the incomes are in the range where so many of my coworkers trade in their wives for younger, slimmer ones. In my case, I hear this with every argument, and its hard to convince her that I really grieve for the underlying issue.


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## Uptown

takris said:


> I think that when morbid obesity is involved, and it occurs after childhood, its often a symptom of something much more complex than feeling unloved or being irresponsible.


Takris, if your W was abused in childhood -- as is common for high functioning BPDers like her -- she may be (subconsciously) putting on weight to protect herself. That likely was the case with my exW -- also a high functioning BPDer -- who had been sexually molested for years by her father, until she got big enough to fight him off. 

I was amused that, in another thread, you said your W started showing her BPD traits the night of your marriage. I was more fortunate than you. My exW waited until the next morning (i.e., day after we were married on an island) and then started eating like a truck driver at breakfast -- and didn't stop. 

She had slimmed down to cinch the marriage deal and, before the ink was dry, was back to gaining weight. She put on at least 80 pounds until she persuaded me to pay for a lap band that cost $10,000. That helped some but then she defeated it by drinking sugared drinks.


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## OoiTsumi

I can understand that you may not be attracted to overweight/obese individuals and that certainly is your right. What I don't understand is the expectations you have on your wife. What did you expect? For her to look just like she did when you got married? To stay the closest to her appearance the day you were married with minimal change? What were you expecting? Were they reasonable not only to you but to her? You have a right to rate appearance as important to you as you wish but she does not have to agree or allow it dictate her life, eating habits, or weight by what you desire. Those are your priorities you live by them. If you do, that is a form of control you are trying to place on her. In our western society we have allowed beauty and weight to be one. The thinner, the more fit, the more attractive. Not everyone has to or chooses to adopted that kind of thinking. Some people find working out important some don't. Some count calories some don't. There is no right or wrong its just personal choice. You can't force her or guilt trip her in to understanding what you find important. I think if you had those expectations before you got married it defiantly should have been discussed. As I was saying it is a form of control. It's not about health. If it were attraction wouldn't be lost and sex wouldn't cease. Doctors visits would increase if concern for ones health were really the reason. 

My husband works at a convenience store. He tells me about the couples he sees enter the store and how many times a woman is made to feel bad and put down a candy bar with the man simply telling her "you don't need that." It's sad and controlling. I wish these women would see what they don't need is him and his ideas and attitudes about her eating choices and weight.

It's seems in American people have the freedom to be who they are.. married.. single.. single parents.. straight.. gay.. with acceptance. Only when it comes to weight do others think they have a right to say anything. All of a sudden people forget to respect others decisions and keep there judgements to themselves. 

I'm sorry but my husband knows that what my scale reads is my business, what I order is my choice and what I choose to weight is my right. He know this, as I respect him based on who he is and not what he consumes or how his waist may expand. This was what made me fall in love with this man. His heart, soul, and his non superficial view on love and myself. He gives me acceptance and respect deserving of me being his wife. I am free and happy not hindered at all by any kind of superficial request. He loves me for me and that is refreshing. Regardless how either of us may change with time and empty calories it does not have a bearing on how we feel for one another. In case anyone was curious, this is not the thoughts of an overweight/obese individual, just someone realistic and dedicated to loving my spouse for who he is and that just keeps the attraction strong and constantly growing.

As far as getting your wife to work out.. that is really her choice to make not yours. Work on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cherrypie18

OoiTsumi said:


> I can understand that you may not be attracted to overweight/obese individuals and that certainly is your right. What I don't understand is the expectations you have on your wife. What did you expect? For her to look just like she did when you got married? To stay the closest to her appearance the day you were married with minimal change? What were you expecting? Were they reasonable not only to you but to her? You have a right to rate appearance as important to you as you wish but she does not have to agree or allow it dictate her life, eating habits, or weight by what you desire. Those are your priorities you live by them. If you do, that is a form of control you are trying to place on her. In our western society we have allowed beauty and weight to be one. The thinner, the more fit, the more attractive. Not everyone has to or chooses to adopted that kind of thinking. Some people find working out important some don't. Some count calories some don't. There is no right or wrong its just personal choice. You can't force her or guilt trip her in to understanding what you find important. I think if you had those expectations before you got married it defiantly should have been discussed. As I was saying it is a form of control. It's not about health. If it were attraction wouldn't be lost and sex wouldn't cease. Doctors visits would increase if concern for ones health were really the reason.
> 
> My husband works at a convenience store. He tells me about the couples he sees enter the store and how many times a woman is made to feel bad and put down a candy bar with the man simply telling her "you don't need that." It's sad and controlling. I wish these women would see what they don't need is him and his ideas and attitudes about her eating choices and weight.
> 
> It's seems in American people have the freedom to be who they are.. married.. single.. single parents.. straight.. gay.. with acceptance. Only when it comes to weight do others think they have a right to say anything. All of a sudden people forget to respect others decisions and keep there judgements to themselves.
> 
> I'm sorry but my husband knows that what my scale reads is my business, what I order is my choice and what I choose to weight is my right. He know this, as I respect him based on who he is and not what he consumes or how his waist may expand. This was what made me fall in love with this man. His heart, soul, and his non superficial view on love and myself. He gives me acceptance and respect deserving of me being his wife. I am free and happy not hindered at all by any kind of superficial request. He loves me for me and that is refreshing. Regardless how either of us may change with time and empty calories it does not have a bearing on how we feel for one another. In case anyone was curious, this is not the thoughts of an overweight/obese individual, just someone realistic and dedicated to loving my spouse for who he is and that just keeps the attraction strong and constantly growing.
> 
> As far as getting your wife to work out.. that is really her choice to make not yours. Work on you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If weight is not important, since it's HER body, then why is hygiene? It's still the spouse's body right? They don't need to shower or brush their teeth for their wife/husband. It's their body and they can keep it dirty and smelling like crap and the spouse should love and accept them for their soul. 

I thought married people were supposed to care about each others opinions and concerns in every aspect including the physical appearance.

I also thought married people lived for _each other_ and not for only themselves...why should you change your bad habits, mental issues, make your spouse go to counseling because they have anger problems and many such things, but when it comes to weight, it means you're controlling and you need piss off because it's their body? 

Morbid obesity is a health problem and it could kill sex, and a marriage without sex doesn't last very long.

Does this look healthy or even attractive? The one on the far right is ok but the rest, not so much.


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## Deejo




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## OoiTsumi

cherrypie18 said:


> If weight is not important, since it's HER body, then why is hygiene? It's still the spouse's body right? They don't need to shower or brush their teeth for their wife/husband. It's their body and they can keep it dirty and smelling like crap and the spouse should love and accept them for their soul.
> 
> I thought married people were supposed to care about each others opinions and concerns in every aspect including the physical appearance.
> 
> I also thought married people lived for _each other_ and not for only themselves...why should you change your bad habits, mental issues, make your spouse go to counseling because they have anger problems and many such things, but when it comes to weight, it means you're controlling and you need piss off because it's their body?
> 
> Morbid obesity is a health problem and it could kill sex, and a marriage without sex doesn't last very long.
> 
> Does this look healthy or even attractive? The one on the far right is ok but the rest, not so much.


C'mon, in a relationship if someone requests no friends of the opposite sex, no drinking, no going out on weekends, dress sexier, don't cut your hair short, the majority of people would call that controlling. Not a matter of opinion or concern there, just plain ol' controlling followed by get over it or your insecure. Well, this is no different. You can't have it both ways. Make request and concerns and respect them all in a marriage since you live for the other and one another otherwise, you are just picking a choosing.

Obesity doesn't kill a sex life, getting married with the main and only important thing being appearance does. Look a little deeper and maybe you won't find yourself so disappointed next time. 

Not everyone finds thin attractive and believe it or not some people love for more the what's on the outside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trenton

OoiTsumi said:


> C'mon, in a relationship if someone requests no friends of the opposite sex, no drinking, no going out on weekends, dress sexier, don't cut your hair short, the majority of people would call that controlling. Not a matter of opinion or concern there, just plain ol' controlling followed by get over it or your insecure. Well, this is no different. You can't have it both ways. Make request and concerns and respect them all in a marriage since you live for the other and one another otherwise, you are just picking a choosing.
> 
> Obesity doesn't kill a sex life, getting married with the main and only important thing being appearance does. Look a little deeper and maybe you won't find yourself so disappointed next time.
> 
> Not everyone finds thin attractive and believe it or not some people love for more the what's on the outside.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Couldn't agree more :smthumbup:


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## greenpearl

Sorry, I didn't want to say anything in case I offend someone. 

But I find it very interesting looking at that picture.

If a woman or a man like this walks on the street in Asia. She or he will get A LOT OF attention. I MEAN A LOT! 

In Asia, women do put on weight after they have children, but never this interesting. Average women weigh 130 pounds maybe. I mean women who have children. 

What you eat really matters what you weigh. I read an article one day, it said that a lot of people eat a lot, that's why they are heavy, and the food they eat is very rich. 

In Asia, we eat rice, vegetables, and fruit, not much meat. We stay slim our whole life. 

I weigh 100 pounds. Yesterday read a post said that his wife gained 100 pounds after they get married. 

My husband really watches what I eat. He won't let me eat fattening food. He insists me eating fruit every day. I listen to him, and I am happy that he requests me to stay slim. I feel confident myself when I look at my slim body. 

I don't understand why people let go of themselves not in a good way, but in a bad way...........................

Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Trenton

greenpearl said:


> Sorry, I didn't want to say anything in case I offend someone.
> 
> But I find it very interesting looking at that picture.
> 
> If a woman or a man like this walks on the street in Asia. She or he will get A LOT OF attention. I MEAN A LOT!
> 
> In Asia, women do put on weight after they have children, but never this interesting. Average women weigh 130 pounds maybe. I mean women who have children.
> 
> What you eat really matters what you weigh. I read an article one day, it said that a lot of people eat a lot, that's why they are heavy, and the food they eat is very rich.
> 
> In Asia, we eat rice, vegetables, and fruit, not much meat. We stay slim our whole life.
> 
> I weigh 100 pounds. Yesterday read a post said that his wife gained 100 pounds after they get married.
> 
> My husband really watches what I eat. He won't let me eat fattening food. He insists me eating fruit every day. I listen to him, and I am happy that he requests me to stay slim. I feel confident myself when I look at my slim body.
> 
> I don't understand why people let go of themselves not in a good way, but in a bad way...........................
> 
> Interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think that picture was an extreme and not a reflection of the norm. Someone that heavy would get a lot of attention here as well. I think we're normally talking about 30 - 100 pounds overweight in marriage rather than 250 pounds overweight and there is a big difference.

Health is a choice like any other choice we make. My daughter weighs just under 100 lbs. but is 5 foot 1 inches so she's a normal weight. I weigh just over 130 but I'm 5 foot 6 inches and I'm a normal weight as well. I've had three children which is really a temporary weight gain but taking care of children and giving birth changes your body for sure and it definitely makes it harder to fit in time for yourself. 

My husband loved my shape every step of the way. Feeling secure in your love for one another beyond what you look like is a lot better than feeling you can never measure up to your partner's expectations. I wouldn't want to be with someone who told me there were conditions I needed to meet in order to be loved. 

There is a difference between genuinely caring about your loved one's health and selfishly expecting them to retain a sexually attractive form so that you can get off. I don't have time for those in the second category and fully realize and have experienced those who love their partner regardless.


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## greenpearl

I am 153cm. I gained a little bit of weight after We got married. I used to wear size M. Now I wear size S. My husband would never say anything disrespectful to me just because I gain a few pounds. But he does insist me eating fruit everyday since it is healthy. We seldom have colds. Money we spend on fruit is almost the same as money we spend on everything else( rice, meat, vegetables, eggs, bread, etc.)


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## cherrypie18

OoiTsumi said:


> C'mon, in a relationship if someone requests no friends of the opposite sex, no drinking, no going out on weekends, dress sexier, don't cut your hair short, the majority of people would call that controlling. Not a matter of opinion or concern there, just plain ol' controlling followed by get over it or your insecure. Well, this is no different. You can't have it both ways. Make request and concerns and respect them all in a marriage since you live for the other and one another otherwise, you are just picking a choosing.
> 
> Obesity doesn't kill a sex life, getting married with the main and only important thing being appearance does. Look a little deeper and maybe you won't find yourself so disappointed next time.
> 
> Not everyone finds thin attractive and believe it or not some people love for more the what's on the outside.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I think you're changing the subject a little. I did not say someone request how we inhale or exhale. 

Also the picture here is not an extreme, because the poster DID say his wife is morbidly obese and the women in the photo are exactly that!

Being overweight is not an issue, some men like meat on their wives, but *ooitsumi* I don't know if you're male or female but if you're male, would you be having sex with any of these women? Or do you even think it's physically possible to do that?

And if you're a woman, would you be attracted to your husband if he looked like that? His penis wouldn't even show under all these folds let alone enter you so yeah call me shallow but I'm sticking to my shallow opinion about this.


----------



## cherrypie18

Trenton said:


> There is a difference between genuinely caring about your loved one's health and selfishly expecting them to retain a sexually attractive form so that you can get off. I don't have time for those in the second category and fully realize and have experienced those who love their partner regardless.


I think this way too. My husband was a little overweight and it did not bother me at all. I did not care for six packs and bulging muscles. 

The only reason I wanted him to lose weight was because he had high cholesterol and all the docs said in order to lower it he needed to lose some weight. 

But I do think if he was morbidly obese, I would eventually be less attracted to him.


----------



## greenpearl

People who are over weight spend much more money on medical bills. A survey just said it is double of thin people!


A man with a big stomach like a big watermelon doesn't arouse me, honestly!


----------



## OoiTsumi

cherrypie18 said:


> I think you're changing the subject a little. I did not say someone request how we inhale or exhale.
> 
> Also the picture here is not an extreme, because the poster DID say his wife is morbidly obese and the women in the photo are exactly that!
> 
> Being overweight is not an issue, some men like meat on their wives, but *ooitsumi* I don't know if you're male or female but if you're male, would you be having sex with any of these women? Or do you even think it's physically possible to do that?
> 
> And if you're a woman, would you be attracted to your husband if he looked like that? His penis wouldn't even show under all these folds let alone enter you so yeah call me shallow but I'm sticking to my shallow opinion about this.


Inhale/exhale.. eat/don't eat.. don't see a difference there. All I'm saying is you can call it love all you want but it doesn't make it any less conditional. 

As for sleeping with someone who is obese and whether I would or not it should be pretty clear based on my PP. Again, some people even like morbidly obese otherwise, there wouldn't be a market for it. Since it is porn of the morbidly obese it's obviously only about visual attraction there. 

How can you be sure of the sexual ability and habits of the morbid obese/obese when you clearly would never go and have never been there?

I've heard plenty of men and women say that once they had a sexual experience with a morbidly obese/obese individual it was the best they ever had and now preferred it. Don't judge things from you own limited bubble view. Those are your opinions not facts treat them as such.

Greenpearl- I didn't know you paid the medical bills of the fat. If I'm wrong and you don't not sure how its your business anymore then a promiscuous individual or a smoker racking up the medical bills. I respect your preference to not find men with a belly as big as a watermelon attractive the same way you should respect that not everyone's preference is a 100 lbs female.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cherrypie18

OoiTsumi said:


> Inhale/exhale.. eat/don't eat.. don't see a difference there. All I'm saying is you can call it love all you want but it doesn't make it any less conditional.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Smoke/don't smoke. Do drugs/don't do drugs. Would you say this is also a form of control? Or maybe it's done out of love...

I just love how people think it's not a form of control when they forbid their spouse to smoke, but eating all kinds of crap is allowed and it's none of their business. 

Why should someone be concerned what their wife/husband puts into their lungs but not into their stomach? It IS just as much of an organ as the other, isn't it? 

Why are there anti smoking campaigns but not anti junk food/fattening food? Fat kills just as much as smoke. Oh wait, how would I possibly know that since I have a limited bubble view? 

If it's an individual choice to be fat then it's an individual choice to smoke, and next time a spouse decided to smoke, the wife or husband should shut up and piss off, because it doesn't concern them, since it's NOT their body. 

Anyway I'm done with this thread.

P.S. I never said everyone should be thin, just not morbidly obese.


----------



## greenpearl

I am just trying to tell people ways to lose weight. If you don't like it, that's fine. It is none of my business. Why do I care? I don't smoke, I don't drink alcohol, I only have sex with my husband. I would rather eat fruit than take medicine. I hate taking medicine.

Finished................................no fun.....................................


----------



## rsalsa

Buzz,

I wish I could give you he magic answer... Putting on a few pounds is one things, but a lot, of course a man isn't going to be attracted any longer. I mean do you blame him? 

I was morbidly obese for years, and miserable. It's a horrible place to be. You feel hopeless and disgusting. I wouldn't have blamed my husband if he left me as I was not very pleasant. In my situation I left a job I hated, and I was a different person. Started watching what I ate and excercising. That was a little over a year ago and I've lost 113 lbs so far. We didn't have sex for years, mainly because he wasn't attracted to me and frankly I was too busy feeling stuffed and didn't have the energy anyway. Even after a couple months of losing weight, I told him I needed to feel wanted from him. So he did what he could. Fast forward to now, and we can't keep our hands off each other. Our marriage is better now then ever.

Keep trying to be supportive of her, but the bottom line is she needs to want to make the change. No one can do it for her.


----------



## MEM2020

T,
For the vast majority of obese people in the US - there is not a medical cause such as a thyroid problem for their weight. For those people, what is the difference between managing their "weight" to be attractive to their partner, and managing the rest of their physiological lovebusters? Brief list below:

- Basic hygiene - brushing teeth, trimming nose hairs, showering, shaving etc.
- Avoidance of off putting personal habits: loudly burping, farting, nose picking, chewing with your mouth open
- Wearing context appropriate clothing - e.g. not wearing cutoff jeans to a holiday dinner. 

ALL of the above require some level of effort. I have NEVER seen a thread where a poster complains about those type behaviors and gets a smackdown from respondents. 

So why is brushing your teeth mandatory, and maintaining your weight optional? 






Trenton said:


> I think that picture was an extreme and not a reflection of the norm. Someone that heavy would get a lot of attention here as well. I think we're normally talking about 30 - 100 pounds overweight in marriage rather than 250 pounds overweight and there is a big difference.
> 
> Health is a choice like any other choice we make. My daughter weighs just under 100 lbs. but is 5 foot 1 inches so she's a normal weight. I weigh just over 130 but I'm 5 foot 6 inches and I'm a normal weight as well. I've had three children which is really a temporary weight gain but taking care of children and giving birth changes your body for sure and it definitely makes it harder to fit in time for yourself.
> 
> My husband loved my shape every step of the way. Feeling secure in your love for one another beyond what you look like is a lot better than feeling you can never measure up to your partner's expectations. I wouldn't want to be with someone who told me there were conditions I needed to meet in order to be loved.
> 
> There is a difference between genuinely caring about your loved one's health and selfishly expecting them to retain a sexually attractive form so that you can get off. I don't have time for those in the second category and fully realize and have experienced those who love their partner regardless.


----------



## cherrypie18

MEM11363 said:


> T,
> For the vast majority of obese people in the US - there is not a medical cause such as a thyroid problem for their weight. For those people, what is the difference between managing their "weight" to be attractive to their partner, and managing the rest of their physiological lovebusters? Brief list below:
> 
> - Basic hygiene - brushing teeth, trimming nose hairs, showering, shaving etc.
> - Avoidance of off putting personal habits: loudly burping, farting, nose picking, chewing with your mouth open
> - Wearing context appropriate clothing - e.g. not wearing cutoff jeans to a holiday dinner.
> 
> ALL of the above require some level of effort. I have NEVER seen a thread where a poster complains about those type behaviors and gets a smackdown from respondents.
> 
> So why is brushing your teeth mandatory, and maintaining your weight optional?


I know I said I was done with this thread but MEM do you realize that it's mostly the women who get really defensive about this? God forbid a man complains about his wife being this or that, he gets stoned to death lol including those who take his side.

Could this be one of those issues regarding modern men/women?


----------



## BigBadWolf

Anyone who has a notion that any "love" is unconditional should consider what they are saying.

This kind of thinking is not only dishonest, it is unhealthy on many many levels.


Regarding obesity, it is a health issue and the good man and woman is every right and responsibility to protect themselves and the ones they love within all their effort and influence and desires to do these absolute best for each other.

Marriage is commitment to each other, two individuals cease to be individual and radically commitment to be something together as one.


----------



## Buzz

I wholeheartedly agree. My main concern is the medical consequenses of her lifestyle. We will both have to endure the potential harm that is very likely if she doesn't take actions to loose weight. I think our culture puts too much empahsis on obtaining a model figure. I don't think their lifestyle is always healthy either. I'm not a control freak. She is free to buy and eat whatever she wants to. I have never told her she couldn't buy a candy bar in a store. It's not about control it is about concern for someone you have been married to for 23 years.


----------



## MEM2020

*Obesity - Marriage and crawling way out on a limb*

If this happened to us - yes ultimately it would ALSO be a health issue. But WAY before then it would be a desire, effort issue for me. 

Before going any further I will say I KNOW it feels bad when your spouse has an issue with your weight. Changing your weight is HARD. That said my W DID take issue with my weight when I got skinny. She hated it. She was patient and supportive for 2 years even though it was a turnoff for her. And yes she let me know that - in a nice way - during those 2 years. At the END of that 2 year period she bluntly told me that I needed to make more effort. So I spend 90 minutes at least once a week with weights. Some weeks I do two 90 minute workouts. It took about 18 months but I added almost 25 pounds of muscle and returned to pretty close to my weight/fitness level when she met me. And that had a BIG impact on her desire. I think the impact is twofold: 1. Just the raw physicality/appearance/feel of it and 2. The fact she knows I love her enough to make the effort.

Of course the side benefit to me is the extra muscle strength makes it much easier to overpower her and spank her when she is being naughty.  

And yes she has stayed fit for me as well as she knows that matters to me. 

If a fat spouse doesn't impact your desire - that is great. But if it does - you have a right to speak up - nicely. 




BigBadWolf said:


> Anyone who has a notion that any "love" is unconditional should consider what they are saying.
> 
> This kind of thinking is not only dishonest, it is unhealthy on many many levels.
> 
> 
> Regarding obesity, it is a health issue and the good man and woman is every right and responsibility to protect themselves and the ones they love within all their effort and influence and desires to do these absolute best for each other.
> 
> Marriage is commitment to each other, two individuals cease to be individual and radically commitment to be something together as one.


----------



## MEM2020

CP,
I think that modern society has created a lot of people who have a giant sense of entitlement. And one of those entitlements is this notion of unconditional love in marriage. 

I have never bought into that. I think we should be very loving and supportive when events BEYOND OUR CONTROL impact us. Sickness, accidents, bad luck in investments. And we should be patient with "one off" mistakes. But lack of effort is a "choice". A choice that is made every day. And the same people who talk about the religious basis for marriage being for life, and marital love being unconditional, seem to forget that the SAME bible that talks about the sanctity of marriage ALSO talks about the deadly sins of sloth and gluttony. 

Tomorrow morning I will shower, shave, dress nicely for work. Brush my teeth, put on deoderant and head off to work. I won't exhibit any disgusting personal habits in the office. Nor will I when I return home. I will ALSO eat healthy and try to get a run in. Or at least walk the dogs tomorrow night. I see ALL of that stuff as the same. 

End of rant. 



cherrypie18 said:


> I know I said I was done with this thread but MEM do you realize that it's mostly the women who get really defensive about this? God forbid a man complains about his wife being this or that, he gets stoned to death lol including those who take his side.
> 
> Could this be one of those issues regarding modern men/women?


----------



## greenpearl

Is there unconditional love? I doubt it? I only see it from parents to children. I don't even see it from children to parents.

Isn't a lot of love conditional? 

He has to work hard to provide for me a nice life style. He has to stay faithful. He has to be loving and caring. etc.etc.
She has to satisfy my sexual needs. She has to cook me meals. She has to be loving and pretty. etc. etc.

Why do people bicker when their needs are not meet? Why do people feel humiliated if their spouses have some expectation for them? 

Staying thin also means staying healthy. Heavy people tend to have diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, high blood sugar........


Staying healthy is being responsible. You don't put your spouse or your family into difficult situation. Who enjoys looking after paralyzed family members? We have to do it because we are family members. But isn't it our responsibility not to put our family members into this kind of burden? 

Love is conditional, love doesn't take others for granted. You get love only you give love.


----------



## MEM2020

GP,
Perfectly said. Your H is a lucky man. Some people have a lot of common sense. Some people have a lot of romance. Few have both. You do. My W does. It is a great and also a rare combination. 




greenpearl said:


> Is there unconditional love? I doubt it? I only see it from parents to children. I don't even see it from children to parents.
> 
> Isn't a lot of love conditional?
> 
> He has to work hard to provide for me a nice life style. He has to stay faithful. He has to be loving and caring. etc.etc.
> She has to satisfy my sexual needs. She has to cook me meals. She has to be loving and pretty. etc. etc.
> 
> Why do people bicker when their needs are not meet? Why do people feel humiliated if their spouses have some expectation for them?
> 
> Staying thin also means staying healthy. Heavy people tend to have diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, high blood sugar........
> 
> If I tell my husband: Honey, please drive carefully, your safety means a lot to me. Will my husband appreciate my concern? He will do it because he just needs to be careful.
> 
> Staying healthy is being responsible. You don't put your spouse or your family into difficult situation. Who enjoys looking after paralyzed family members? We have to do it because we are family members. But isn't it our responsibility not to put our family members into this kind burden?
> 
> Love is conditional, love doesn't take others for granted. You get love only you give love.


----------



## greenpearl

MEM11363 said:


> GP,
> Perfectly said. Your H is a lucky man. Some people have a lot of common sense. Some people have a lot of romance. Few have both. You do. My W does. It is a great and also a rare combination.




Just read a news article. Bill Clinton was requested to lose weight by his daughter since his heart condition was not good. He talked to two well known doctors in US. They suggested him The China Study. It is a book written by one of the doctors. The doctor studied the way Chinese and Taiwanese eat. The book suggests people eat more vegetables and fruit, more bean products, less meat and dairy products. He started adopting the method. Before his daughter's wedding, he lost 25 pounds. His daughter only asked him to lose 15 pounds. 

The way we eat is much healthier. We don't eat sweet creamy stuff for desserts. We eat fruit. We don't eat popcorn when we watch TV. Children eat seaweed for snacks. There are some heavy people in China and Taiwan. But yesterday we went to a department store, we paid attention, there are few women who are over 150 pounds. 90% of them are slim. And there are all kind of age group. 

I want to tell other people who are reading this post, I am not trying to brag, I am just telling you guys a fact! A study showed that some men in Taiwan are gaining weight because of their unhealthy diet.


----------



## greenpearl

::: THE CHINA STUDY :::


----------



## OoiTsumi

MEM11363 said:


> T,
> For the vast majority of obese people in the US - there is not a medical cause such as a thyroid problem for their weight. For those people, what is the difference between managing their "weight" to be attractive to their partner, and managing the rest of their physiological lovebusters? Brief list below:
> 
> - Basic hygiene - brushing teeth, trimming nose hairs, showering, shaving etc.
> - Avoidance of off putting personal habits: loudly burping, farting, nose picking, chewing with your mouth open
> - Wearing context appropriate clothing - e.g. not wearing cutoff jeans to a holiday dinner.
> 
> ALL of the above require some level of effort. I have NEVER seen a thread where a poster complains about those type behaviors and gets a smackdown from respondents.
> 
> So why is brushing your teeth mandatory, and maintaining your weight optional?





MEM11363 said:


> T,
> For the vast majority of obese people in the US - there is not a medical cause such as a thyroid problem for their weight. For those people, what is the difference between managing their "weight" to be attractive to their partner, and managing the rest of their physiological lovebusters? Brief list below:
> 
> - Basic hygiene - brushing teeth, trimming nose hairs, showering, shaving etc.
> - Avoidance of off putting personal habits: loudly burping, farting, nose picking, chewing with your mouth open
> - Wearing context appropriate clothing - e.g. not wearing cutoff jeans to a holiday dinner.
> 
> ALL of the above require some level of effort. I have NEVER seen a thread where a poster complains about those type behaviors and gets a smackdown from respondents.
> 
> So why is brushing your teeth mandatory, and maintaining your weight optional?


Those that smoke and are promiscuous(not married) also do not have a medical reason for their poor impulsive behavior. Again, that doesn't make it anyone's business. Weight and eating habits are no different. Trying in my marriage isn't defined by the cleanliness or attractiveness of my partner. It comes from the support, care, love and the friendship we share. Not by the farts he holds or doesn't, or his clothes options in the winter, or his decisions on his meal choices. Do I want my spouse healthy and happy? Yes, but it truly is about his health and not some underhanded way of getting someone to uphold my own personal standards of beauty. If I wanted to love myself more then him then maybe I should have stayed by myself. No one can please someone with such a high opinion of themselves that they look to your appearance to change until they are satisfied. Makes me wonder how attractive some people believe they truly are to complain about others physical appearance. Now, if it were truly about health, where does the sex go? The not wanting to stand by them in public, is that also doctors advice? It's clear to see that those individuals only want to reserve the right to complain because they'd rather try and fix your appearance instead of their believed given right to complain about something so shallow. Sound like they want the right to complain about weight and appearance since it "protects" them from having to be with some not so "hot" in their eyes. Look, if you going to be shallow then at the very least, admit it. That choice is yours to make, how about owning it? 

What someone put in themselves, food, random sex partners (not married), a cigarette it is their choice. Can't deal with it, then find some like you or be alone, or change your " I have a right to change you" attitude. If you feel smaked down by what I've posted that might be your conscious cause it sure wasn't me. 

Cherrypie18- When this topic is brought up, it may be women who get "defensive" but its also women who defend it. Case in point, you. 

I say unconditional love and I mean unconditional. When you get married you make vows for better or worse sickeness and in health to forsake all others. Now C'mon why say it if you don't mean it? I think the problem lies in wanting to be that in love but not really wanting to give up their own freedom to find better deals if you don't continue to make the cut. Like I've been saying that's your own personal choice. I don't care how you view or apply love in your life. Thats your life not mine. But it is what it is. You have a cap on what your love will endure that falls short of the vows of marriage and that is your choice and right. All I'm saying is not everyone does. Maybe your spouse agrees with you and will make the changes if not then all I can say is that is her right. These things could be avoided if people discussed these issues before marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## themrs

I've seen this issue discussed man times in many different forums and it's always the same. You rarely see women complaining about how their husband has a ginormous beer belly and refuses to buy new underwear, but men routinely complain about the weight their wives have gained. While I find it a legitamate complaint, it does make me wonder.

I wonder how a man would feel if he started making less money than he did on the day he was married and his wife stated that she wasn't attracted to a poor man? Wouldn't she be accused of being a gold digger? Why then are men not shallow when they request their wives stay physically fit for them? In my mind it seems to be the same in relation to what men and women seem to need. The sexual needs of a man seem to require his wife be attractive to him, and the security needs of a woman seem to require her husband make enough money to maintain a lifestyle to which she has become accustomed. Anything too far outside the starting off point is unexceptable it seems.

However, men generally make more money as they get older. So it would appear that women expect men to change while men expect women to stay the same. Neither one is a healthy expectation imo. Everyone changes in some ways and everyone stays the same in some ways. It's completely normal and natural for women to gain weight as she gets older. We gain weight at different stages of life (childbearing, menopause). Not only that, but our bodies are almost never going to look the same after giving birth regardless if the number on the scale stays the same. After having my first child, I actually wore a smaller size but I was 20 pounds heavier according to the scale! 

My point is, I think the crux of these discussions is not so much the size that a woman is or the amount of money a man makes but the amount of effort the person puts into maintaining some sort of standard for themselves and their spouse. I truly believe it has more to do with the spouse feeling like the overweight wife or lazy husband just doesn't CARE about them enough to put in any effort at making them happy. I think this above all else is the root of the problem in the marriage and that the weight is merely a symptom of a larger issue.


----------



## Deejo

OoiTsumi said:


> What someone put in themselves, food, random sex partners (not married), a cigarette it is their choice. Can't deal with it, then find some like you or be alone, or change your " I have a right to change you" attitude.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Cool. Then we agree. 
I wouldn't marry a smoker.
I wouldn't marry an obese woman.
They may be very nice, warm, wonderful people.
I find neither attractive. 

So I only become a shallow jerk if my 125 lb wife balloons up to 180 and starts smoking Pall Malls, and I am no longer attracted as a result? 

I can live with that ...

Then your input is that Buzz should accept that he is shallow and leave his wife rather than conveying that he would like to encourage, support, or cooperate in whatever fashion possible to assist his wife in losing weight?

Bottom line. I want to be attractive to my partner. I certainly want to know if my partner doesn't find me attractive. I would expect the same mindset in turn.

We can paint as many analogies into these circumstances as we choose. If Buzz took up smoking two packs a day or drinking like a fish, gambling, or getting tatooed up and buying motorcycles to the point where _it impacts the relationship_, then it's an issue, pure and simple. How the issue is addressed is up to the people involved. Odds are, if one partner simply chooses to overlook or ignore the concerns of the other ... well, most of us here knows exactly where that leads.


----------



## Trenton

First of all, I think women are more defensive on this issue because their weight is a bigger issue in our society. Our bodies, especially if having children with our partners, face more physical changes and there is a larger pressure to stay thin. 

Mem, I do see what you're saying and it does make sense. I understand that as part of my relationship I want to stay attractive for my husband and vice versa.

On the other hand, it's a leap to say that everyone has deal breakers or to think that weight is a deal breaker for everyone and since I've read posts on this board they seem to be deal breakers specifically for men which is why, again, more women are defensive.

Weight, unlike taking a shower, can easily become a psychological problem for men and women as well as be a physical problem. Society tells us to eat healthy and then makes all the unhealthy foods cheap and readily available. My point is, there are obstacles in-between good health and the individual and they are greater than the small walk to the shower to get clean.

Weight, unlike hygiene, becomes more difficult to maintain as we get older. In other words, the same woman you married twenty years ago would have to change her behaviors to maintain the same weight. So if you were actually hip to her behaving the same as she did 20 years ago you'd have a fatter wife today. Same goes for a husband obviously.

----

To those who spoke about unconditional love being an impossibility...this saddens me for you. It certainly is possible but you wouldn't recognize it because your wife or husband would gain 30 pounds and you'd still look at them and swoon. The sex life I have with my husband is the same as it was ten years ago and was the same even after babies and potato chip eating habits. Ironically, now I'm in better shape than I've ever been and it hasn't increased our sex life. We still enjoy it like we always did.

I love my husband unconditionally and vice versa. I can think of a million examples. I do feel lucky. I also love my children unconditionally as well. I walk around with these four hearts on the outside of my body (for my children and husband) always feeling vulnerable because I can't protect them like my body protects my own heart but I wouldn't trade it for the world. I cherish and adore these relationships with these people who regularly annoy, inspire, smother, ignore, praise, cut down, bore and thrill me. 

--I want the best things for all of them and so sure I tell them my opinion as they tell me theirs also, but at the end of the day when sitting around the dinner table...we all love one another without conditions because the love exists no matter what and that's what unconditional love is.--

---- 

_Lastly, I'm not attracted to men who are shallow and don't believe in unconditional love nor are capable of it. I find them repulsive and gross. If my husband slowly became like this I would really try to figure out what the heck happened to make him become such a butt...but I'd still love him._


----------



## BigBadWolf

"Unconditional love" "soul mates" "santa claus" "tooth fairy".

As interesting as these kind of things are for our imaginations and for our own entertainment, it is not good to base our reality and behavior and decision making on these notions.

If a man becomes physically abusive, or runs around with other women, or abuses the children, or is a danger to his woman or a danger to his family, there is not the time to be considering "unconditional love". On this any of us will agree.

Likewise, if the man becomes emotionally detached from his woman, and instead immerses himself in his work or in his hobbies or sports or is practically any and every way ignoring his woman, should he not have anything to worry about, much less some affair man or divorce, as long as his woman has declared at some point in time that she "unconditionally loves" him?

So what is unconditional love? Saying a woman is beholding and obligated and committed to her man with no regard to how her man behaves or treats or mistreats her or her children? 

I dare anyone to describe a healthy relationship where this could even be possible!

So we see this, that "unconditional love" is at best dishonest play words, and at worse a negligent, lazy, or naive point of view that does not promote due diligence to the relationship at hand.

Simply "unconditional love" may sell valentine cards and candy or be good for some pillow talk or something maybe.

But for relationship behavior there is not beneficial application for such notions.


----------



## Trenton

BigBadWolf said:


> "Unconditional love" "soul mates" "santa claus" "tooth fairy".
> 
> As interesting as these kind of things are for our imaginations and for our own entertainment, it is not good to base our reality and behavior and decision making on these notions.
> 
> If a man becomes physically abusive, or runs around with other women, or abuses the children, or is a danger to his woman or a danger to his family, there is not the time to be considering "unconditional love". On this any of us will agree.
> 
> Likewise, if the man becomes emotionally detached from his woman, and instead immerses himself in his work or in his hobbies or sports or is practically any and every way ignoring his woman, should he not have anything to worry about, much less some affair man or divorce, as long as his woman has declared at some point in time that she "unconditionally loves" him?
> 
> So what is unconditional love? Saying a woman is beholding and obligated and committed to her man with no regard to how her man behaves or treats or mistreats her or her children?
> 
> I dare anyone to describe a healthy relationship where this could even be possible!
> 
> So we see this, that "unconditional love" is at best dishonest play words, and at worse a negligent, lazy, or naive point of view that does not promote due diligence to the relationship at hand.
> 
> Simply "unconditional love" may sell valentine cards and candy or be good for some pillow talk or something maybe.
> 
> But for relationship behavior there is not beneficial application for such notions.


Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Big Bad Wolf...? No, I don't believe in these things 

You can love someone unconditionally and have to let them go. It happens with children all the time when they grow up or go off to school, etc. and certainly if my children or I were at risk it would happen physically with my husband as well. 

I don't think you can equate spousal/child abuse with gaining weight, however.


----------



## cherrypie18

BigBadWolf said:


> "Unconditional love" "soul mates" "santa claus" "tooth fairy".
> 
> As interesting as these kind of things are for our imaginations and for our own entertainment, it is not good to base our reality and behavior and decision making on these notions.
> 
> If a man becomes physically abusive, or runs around with other women, or abuses the children, or is a danger to his woman or a danger to his family, there is not the time to be considering "unconditional love". On this any of us will agree.
> 
> Likewise, if the man becomes emotionally detached from his woman, and instead immerses himself in his work or in his hobbies or sports or is practically any and every way ignoring his woman, should he not have anything to worry about, much less some affair man or divorce, as long as his woman has declared at some point in time that she "unconditionally loves" him?
> 
> So what is unconditional love? Saying a woman is beholding and obligated and committed to her man with no regard to how her man behaves or treats or mistreats her or her children?
> 
> I dare anyone to describe a healthy relationship where this could even be possible!
> 
> So we see this, that "unconditional love" is at best dishonest play words, and at worse a negligent, lazy, or naive point of view that does not promote due diligence to the relationship at hand.
> 
> Simply "unconditional love" may sell valentine cards and candy or be good for some pillow talk or something maybe.
> 
> But for relationship behavior there is not beneficial application for such notions.


I was actually wondering about this but you already posted. And I do agree to a great extent. 

I think it varies from person to person. Some people love their spouses even if they beat the hell out of them, and some stop loving them. Not everyone is capable of loving "unconditionally" while their spouse makes their life a living hell...literally.

Don't most people start do dislike and resent their spouse to the point where they fall out of love, stop being attracted to them and eventually just stop loving them? For many many many different reasons, including physical appearance. 

Letting go of children is not the same as letting go of a spouse. They're your own flesh and blood, and your love for them is not the same as for your spouse.

If your child was to gain weight you would still love them to death because you gave birth to them, you are programmed to love them actually. They're not the person who you kiss and make love to, they're not the ones to make you feel like a woman/man. They're not someone you feel sexually attracted to. You know, their job isn't to make you feel like a spouse would.

I think it has much more to do with getting attached to a person emotionally and physically, feeling comfortable around them and things like that rather than unconditional love.


----------



## themrs

I don't see what gaining weight and loving someone have to do with one another. A person could gain 100 pounds and still be just as lovable. A person could lose a significant amount of weight and turn into a jerk. The way a person looks shouldn't be considered in why you love them. Love and attraction are not the same thing.

Love is a choice, but attraction isn't. Love is an action, but attraction is a feeling. You can't really choose one way or another who you are attracted too. It is what it is. But we choose who we love and whom we will continue to love even after the initial attraction wanes. 

I agree with Trenton in that when you choose to love your spouse, you choose to love them without condition. That doesn't mean you won't leave them if they start to beat you. That doesn't mean you won't lose attraction to them if they start to get fat. 

I don't know why anyone would make the decision to marry someone to whom they felt limited love. I don't care if my husband gains 100 pounds, I'll still love him. I will still show him respect and kindness and treat him with all the compassion he deserves. I just may not be as sexually attracted to him as I once was. 

It's a sad fact about human nature that it is the precise moment when a person whom you claim to love needs your love the most is the exact moment you start to pull away. So sad.


----------



## takris

Sometimes, I've found that helping my wife explore exercise options outside the norm has been helpful to her. Recently, she tried treadmills in our local cummunity center, but as a nurse, she really struggles with the impact on her feet.

We talked about what she likes/dislikes in exercise. My solution: I ordered a treadmill with a reflex bed that reduces impact on the feet dramatically. On the wall before it, I installed a LCD flat panel monitor, and she can connect it to her laptop. She downloaded an assortment of videos to play.

Ok, I'll admit it was partially selfish. Bummed up my ankle with football 20 years ago, and had it fused, so I can't run. Still stay in shape, but now that I'm middle aged, it takes more to stay lean.

Regardless, she loves it and is now using it every day. My children and I make exercise a part of our lifestyle, so I'm trying to give her the bump in motivation, hoping that early results will kick in a long term committment.

Also, about 20 years ago, we committed to a lifestyle that allows almost no beef or pork. We avoid fast food like the plague. But in my case, my wife suffers from personality disorder, so she 'cheats' in recent years.


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## cherrypie18

themrs said:


> I don't see what gaining weight and loving someone have to do with one another. A person could gain 100 pounds and still be just as lovable. A person could lose a significant amount of weight and turn into a jerk. The way a person looks shouldn't be considered in why you love them. Love and attraction are not the same thing.
> 
> Love is a choice, but attraction isn't. Love is an action, but attraction is a feeling. You can't really choose one way or another who you are attracted too. It is what it is. But we choose who we love and whom we will continue to love even after the initial attraction wanes.
> 
> I agree with Trenton in that when you choose to love your spouse, you choose to love them without condition. That doesn't mean you won't leave them if they start to beat you. That doesn't mean you won't lose attraction to them if they start to get fat.
> 
> I don't know why anyone would make the decision to marry someone to whom they felt limited love. I don't care if my husband gains 100 pounds, I'll still love him. I will still show him respect and kindness and treat him with all the compassion he deserves. I just may not be as sexually attracted to him as I once was.
> 
> It's a sad fact about human nature that it is the precise moment when a person whom you claim to love needs your love the most is the exact moment you start to pull away. So sad.


when the sexual attraction is gone the love turns into a platonic love which is exactly like friendship. Im really not saying there is anything wrong with that because married people should also be friends, but most people need sex and if you read the threads here or generally talk to people in real life who have experienced a sexless marriage you will learn that it is like torture and they want to find someone who will satisfy them. Yeah they still love thei spouse because he or she are lovable and affectionate or even super fluffy lol but people need sex.

Bottom line is if someone has never felt unattracted to their spouse and been in a sexless marriage shouldnt say they would be ok with it unless theyre like in their 60s and are satisfied with having a very loving friend/roommate by their side. You wouldn't know what you would do or feel unless you felt it on your own skin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## themrs

cherrypie18 said:


> when the sexual attraction is gone the love turns into a platonic love which is exactly like friendship. Im really not saying there is anything wrong with that because married people should also be friends, but most people need sex and if you read the threads here or generally talk to people in real life who have experienced a sexless marriage you will learn that it is like torture and they want to find someone who will satisfy them. Yeah they still love thei spouse because he or she are lovable and affectionate and super fluffy lol but people need sex.
> 
> Bottom line is if someone has never felt unattracted to their spouse and been in a sexless marriage shouldnt say they would be ok with it unless theyre like in their 60s and are satisfied with having a very loving friend/roommated by their side.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Attraction comes and goes. It's not a constant. A person can be gorgeous and say something that totally turns their spouse off. 

And besides that, attraction is not 100% about an outward appearance. There are many more factors that have to do with attraction besides how one looks in the mirror. People have more senses than just sight. We're attracted to smell, touch, taste, etc. The way a man smells is a BIG factor in why a woman would be attracted to him.

My husband and I have never had a sexless marriage so I can't really comment on it. He won't let me go two weeks without sex (besides when I am pregnant), but I can honestly say that there are times when I'm not attracted to him at all. It's not because of the way he looks, but his attitude has completely turned me off. 

The bottom line for me is - in marriage - attraction is what gets you in the door, but commitment is what makes you stay.


----------



## cherrypie18

themrs said:


> Attraction comes and goes. It's not a constant. A person can be gorgeous and say something that totally turns their spouse off.
> 
> And besides that, attraction is not 100% about an outward appearance. There are many more factors that have to do with attraction besides how one looks in the mirror. People have more senses than just sight. We're attracted to smell, touch, taste, etc. The way a man smells is a BIG factor in why a woman would be attracted to him.
> 
> My husband and I have never had a sexless marriage so I can't really comment on it. He won't let me go two weeks without sex (besides when I am pregnant), but I can honestly say that there are times when I'm not attracted to him at all. It's not because of the way he looks, but his attitude has completely turned me off.
> 
> The bottom line for me is - in marriage - attraction is what gets you in the door, but commitment is what makes you stay.


Of course attraction is not only the appearance, but the fact that the spouse does not care that they look like, they don't put any effort to make themselves to at least look decent for you, it makes you feel that they don't really care about anything including your feelings.


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## themrs

cherrypie18 said:


> Of course attraction is not only the appearance, but the fact that the spouse does not care that they look like, they don't put any effort to make themselves to at least look decent for you, it makes you feel that they don't really care about anything including your feelings.


Yeah, but that's why we were having the conversation earlier about only having control over one's self. I think every married person has felt at one time or another that their spouse didn't care about their feelings. We've all heard the line, "If he/she loved me they would. . . " That's BS because if a person let's themselves go in such a drastic way, then they don't care about themself! It has nothing to do with you and your feelings and everything to do with how your spouse feels about themself.

If I put on weight, it's not a f*you to my husband. I'm not taking care of myself.  Period. If I want to lose weight, I can only do it because I want to improve myself. My husband can't change me. Only I have that control. Contrary to popular belief, I doubt most people gain weight to spite their partners.

The only successful way to work on a relationship is to work on yourself and hope that by doing that you can influence your spouse to change. As hard as it is, you have to stop taking what your spouse does personally and just do the right thing for you.


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## cherrypie18

Why do people work on themselves (physical and mental) before marriage but stop after then? 
Are they lying to their potential spouse then? Giving them a nicely wrapped gift for them to open after marriage and see the complete opposite? 
Why do people act polite and sweet and release the monster after the rings are on their fingers? 
Why not be 100% yourself then inside out? Why not show people your true colors while dating? How many people will stick around and how many will run away asap? 

Most (single or even married)people take care of themselves to look good for others in order to be liked. Not a lot of people take care of their looks or habits just for themselves, that's why they stop taking care of themselves after marriage because they got the fish with the nice shiny bait, now they can just put on the ugly sweats and stuff their faces. 

Whether you like it or not, as much as a person lives for him/herself, _especially married_ people live for themselves AND each other. It would be selfish to lure your spouse into you arms with your good looks and good presonality before marriage (I'm not saying be skinny, I'm saying decent looking at least) and then balloon up and tell them "so what I've changed, accept it, shut up and leave me alone"

Yeah... I'm just shallow like that.

Anyway my Q is...why do most people make an effort to look good for strangers but not for their loved one? 

Maybe we should look ourselves inside out for strangers and the person who likes or falls in love with us will marry us and we can then COMMIT to looking good only for them? But I see the opposite happening everywhere. Look good for random dates but look fat, hairy and what not for the person you're supposed to love "unconditionally" and make happy, pleased, satisfied etc etc.

Marriage is a union where people become "one" and you no longer live for yourself but for your spouse and children too. Believe it or not, even kids notice it when their parents don't look themselves and want their parents to look nice and be nice. They love you for who you are but they secretly wish you looked presentable at least.


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## themrs

I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't have to take care of myself before I got married. I was the size I was. I never exercised or ate like a rabbit. 

As a matter of fact, at one point I gained 35 pounds during college while DH (then fiance) were dating and he never treated me any different. I lost the weight because I just started eating healthier, but it was for myself not for him. He never made me feel like I was obligated to stay a certain size for him and that's part of the reason why I love him. He made me feel as if he loved me for me, not a number on a dress. I guess I lucked out in that respect.

And I have never seen my husband exercise a day in his life. And a diet? Forget about it! He wasn't trying to maintain a certain size to be more attractive, he just was the size he was. As he got older it became harder to maintain without some work, but prior to that he was just thin.

We got married young though. We were both 24 so I don't know if age had anything to do with it. Over the past almost 6 years we've been married we've both gained and lost weight. It's really no big deal to us and we've had sex every step of the way. 

I am not less attracted to him when he gains weight. Sometimes I don't even notice that he'd gained until he's lost weight. What turns me off more than anything is a bad attitude and I suspect it would be the same for him.

I'm currently pregnant with twins so of course I'm not my usual weight. I've gained 30 pounds during this pregnancy and he's gained 20 right along with me! It hasn't stopped him from wanting to have sex, let me tell you! He says from behind he can't tell I'm pregnant . We've already made a plan to get back in shape once I've had the babies and I'm sure we'll stick with it as we've done it before, but it doesn't have much to do with our attraction to one another and everything to do with health. My father has diabetes and cancer runs in both our families and we just want to get our health on track before it seriously starts to take a toll on us. 

I know attraction is important and a lot of people just can't be attracted to their spouse if they have gained a certain amount of weight, but I think this is one instance where you should treat your partner as a friend first and a lover second. They need a friend now more than ever.


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## Idontknownow

I have always eaten with long term health and weight in mind, been an active exercising person since before I knew what exercise was. Mom was a track and tennis star in HS and young adult hood and she raised me to be active. Was involved in horses, track, soccer and other school sports. ALWAYS been active, husband and I used to make dates to work out together. He used to body build.

I admit weight has fluctuated with pregnancies but I am 5'10 and usually maintain a 145-155 weight. I exercise and am active in general. H is in the MC and has no choice but to stay in shape.

I doubt my ability to stay with an obese man... I know, I'm shallow. I am not saying I wouldn't still love them but I absolutely would not be attracted so aside from staying with the kids what would be the point?? Sex wouldn't happen.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

As someone who once WAS overweight due to a medical condition (since resolved, back to normal weight again) - someone who has NEVER been overweight cannot EVER truly understand the struggle that overweight people have. You can empathize, but NEVER understand if you, yourself have never been overweight.

We know we're FAT, OVERWEIGHT and look bad. I don't think anyone who is or has been overweight has a sheet hanging over their bathroom mirror. But, for some of them, they haven't figured out why they are overeating and until they do - they can't solve it. While they can lose weight on a diet - it will just come back because they haven't fixed the underlying issue of what got them grossly overweight in the first place. The weight is the symptom - but not the problem. 

So they might feel powerless since they don't know why they overeat and also feel embarassed to let any other person (other than their spouse) see them that way, or they are too shy to reach out for help - could be a million reasons why.

But - me personally - if my husband found me disgusting - I would definitely want to know why so I could fix it - I don't want to blindly go about my marriage thinking everything is ok while my husband is thinking I look gross.

And to answer the question - when I was overweight before my medical problem was discovered, my husband did mention my weight and I KNEW he found it gross - there were no doubts. Did it hurt my feelings - sure it did - I'm human, but I knew and knew that when they found the problem it would go down and it did.

I'm at the weight now where I was when we married and have been for a while - but I've been there and it's a bad place to be, especially when you don't know why and how to fix it.

Maybe you need to be upfront and honest with her if the subtle approach isn't working - she has the right to know whether it hurts her or not. If subtle isn't cutting it (what I suggested first), then lay it on her...she does deserve to know.


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## DawnD

I just don't know what to say LOL. There is so much going on in this thread. I will just keep it small I think. My H and I met in the Army. I was AD and he was too. We go to the gym together for "our time" because I spent six years having to pass PT tests and do morning PT every morning. Its how I manage my stress. All my frustration gets taken out on the elliptical or treadmill and I really enjoy weights and the sauna. 

I have never been overweight, so I won't pretend to know the struggles, but I will say this: if my husband put on 20 pounds I wouldn't really notice. If he put on 100, I would have a problem being attracted to him. With that, I would also have the ability to express to him that he has put on too much weight, he's unhealthy and I want my kids to have healthy and happy parents. I don't see him being in shape just for me, but for our family. Being healthy so he can see my children get married and have their own babies. 

I wish you the best of luck Buzz. I hope that some solution can come out of all of this.


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## BigBadWolf

DawnD, thank you for sharing your perspective.

I consider your opinion to be very balanced and exactly correct.

I have not suggested that it is okay to dump a woman because she is gaining weight, nor would I.

A man that is responsible for himself and his family, who is not afraid to stand up for what he believes, will absolutely share if his woman is behaving in ways that are not healthy for her. 

For example in my own life:

Even back when my wife and I started dating, and she was a smoker in high school. I insisted that any girl I was in a relationship with would not be a smoker. 

Is this "controlling" or "conditional" love? I really could not care less.

She was free to enter a relationship with me, and free to leave the relationship!

Instead she realized my concerns for both her health and my own comfort, as I do not prefer to be surrounded by cigaratte smoke and she dropped the habit. It was certainly her own choosing.

As well, I am sexually attracted to my wife through all her pregnacies, and even times when she was injured and not able to exercise regularly and her weight went up, this was never even an issue for me. 

And be sure she was FAR more worried about her weight than I ever will be!  

As it is, I have not known a single overweight woman that was happy and content to be overweight.

So what would be the evil in a good man in a relationship with such a woman, to care for her enough to insist she take steps to prevent this?

This is an expression of concern, of caring, and honest desire!

As well in this thread I have noticed the confusion and switching between attraction and love words. They are not the same.

Attraction is very real, and is based on very predictible criteria.

Love is so much not even tangible, it is a word we use to describe so many things all over the map it is borderline even not even useful for an actual discussion! 

And "unconditional love", there is just nothing in this universe to put a hand on and say "here it is" or "there it is", it is smoke and mirrors.

Maybe the selfishiness a woman who is a good mother will display for the benefit of her own children, to protect them and see them succeed, this perhaps would be unconditional, but it is not 100 percent accurate or reliable.

As well mother/child bonding and relating is not the same as man/woman romantic (sexual) attraction.


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## Scannerguard

Good points by all but I think bad the way the direction of the thread often went.

I do agree with Trenton though that it is a bit pointed that this subject (maybe ironic) does come up in the Men's Clubhouse.

Speaking as one type of doctor (and all doctors deal with obesity). . .my female patients are usually much more conscious than my male patients about their weight. Females are just more health conscious.

I would also like to add another interesting point.

Even the Conservative CAtholic Church has said married couples aren't having sex enough and they blame the obesity partially for this trend.

The fact is when you are obese. . .blood doesn't get down there. 

Blood doesn't get down there, the marriage is at risk of not being consummated. No consummation ='s eventual annullment.

I would have liked the forum to explore the dimension of Obesity and Marriage on this thread vs. making this a Fat Beer Belly Male thing vs. a Female Bon-Bon thing (put away the bon-bons, ladies  )


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## greenpearl

I had been wearing size L for a few months, seeing my muffin-top was not a happy feeling. My husband was OK, he only joked at my muffin-top. I never had the feeling that he would stop loving me. Then I went back to M, could wear my sexy tight skirt again, happy happy happy. Now I am back to my weight in the university, I put on a tight shirt, you really see the curve. My husband said no limited budget if I stay size S. I know he is joking. But am I happy? YES YES YES!!! I am happy enjoying my sexy body. I walk naked a lot at home, I show off in front of my husband and fish for compliment. I AM HAPPY. I AM GOING TO EAT MORE FRUIT AND LESS MEAT. Plus, I don't become sick or tired often now. Eating a lot of fruit and vegetables is wonderful!


And my husband is lucky!!! I only lose weight, my bra still stays the same cup. YEAH YEAH YEAH..............................................sing....................................................


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## Scannerguard

> I walk naked a lot at home,


Can I come over for Naked Sundays?


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## greenpearl

Scannerguard said:


> Can I come over for Naked Sundays?


You are TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO far away!

And NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

But want you to find a pretty and kind woman SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!

Check this thread, maybe you have read it, it is about looking for a spouse!

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/17240-what-advise-tell-my-sons-about-marriage.html

I copied some good tips from a book!!!


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## Idontknownow

greenpearl said:


> I AM HAPPY. I AM GOING TO EAT MORE FRUIT AND LESS MEAT. Plus, I don't become sick or tired often now. Eating a lot of fruit and vegetables is wonderful!


:smthumbup:

Never had anything but a bit of chicken in my entire life. I don't know what I am missing. But I feel lucky, if I liked it I think I would eat it lol. My husband NEVER ate salads till meeting me and I made him one MINE. He has told me several times and tells other people "I never knew they could taste good or consist of more then prepackaged ice berg lettuce and nasty bottled ranch dressing". I'm pretty proud of that. He does still eat meat and I don't care but at least broadened his taste buds lol


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## greenpearl

Idontknownow said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> Never had anything but a bit of chicken in my entire life. I don't know what I am missing. But I feel lucky, if I liked it I think I would eat it lol. My husband NEVER ate salads till meeting me and I made him one MINE. He has told me several times and tells other people "I never knew they could taste good or consist of more then prepackaged ice berg lettuce and nasty bottled ranch dressing". I'm pretty proud of that. He does still eat meat and I don't care but at least broadened his taste buds lol




  
My husband told me a lot of North Americans don't like to eat vegetables, is that true???


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## Idontknownow

Not sure. I think it depends on where in the US you go. My Mother is from the south....they eat vegetables FRIED or boiled to death...they even boil peanuts EWW! She lives in a town in WA that is very health concious but my husband is from ID and I think most of the North West is very meat and potato's except for Seattle, WA 

I was raised on Monterey, CA which is hippyville and "organic" so I was raised pretty much vegan with some dairy products from time to time that came direct from the source. I used to ride my horse to the goat farm every few days to get fresh goat milk(I'm not as old as that makes me sound lol...I am 29). Only after I left home did I really start eating eggs, cheese and some chicken. But I will tell you the MAJORITY of homes I have eaten in they either do not eat lots of vegatables or they are cooked in beyond recognition lol My kids have free access to fruits and veggies as snacks. My daughter eats bell peppers like apples and my son will down a bowl of spinach like it's going outta style. Child obesity is a huge issue to me. We have snacks, and candy some times and fun stuff but there is fruit or veggies at every meal and thats what we snack on between meals.


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## greenpearl

Idontknownow said:


> Not sure. I think it depends on where in the US you go. My Mother is from the south....they eat vegetables FRIED or boiled to death...they even boil peanuts EWW! She lives in a town in WA that is very health concious but my husband is from ID and I think most of the North West is very meat and potato's except for Seattle, WA
> 
> I was raised on Monterey, CA which is hippyville and "organic" so I was raised pretty much vegan with some dairy products from time to time that came direct from the source. I used to ride my horse to the goat farm every few days to get fresh goat milk(I'm not as old as that makes me sound lol...I am 29). Only after I left home did I really start eating eggs, cheese and some chicken. But I will tell you the MAJORITY of homes I have eaten in they either do not eat lots of vegatables or they are cooked in beyond recognition lol My kids have free access to fruits and veggies as snacks. My daughter eats bell peppers like apples and my son will down a bowl of spinach like it's going outta style. Child obesity is a huge issue to me. We have snacks, and candy some times and fun stuff but there is fruit or veggies at every meal and thats what we snack on between meals.


I always find girls riding horses fascinating to me, since the place I grew up had no horses. I grew up on a mountain village.
When we were young, we only had vegetables to eat, little meat, once a month maybe. China was very poor at that time. I think the way I grew up makes it easy for me to be content. 

My husband grew up on a Canadian farm. His mother is a traditional housewife. She made sure that they had a lot of vegetables and fruit to eat every day. That's why my husband insists having fruit every day. At my hometown, fruit was luxury when I was at home. I only got to have oranges when I was sick. So I never had a habit of eating fruit until I got married to my husband. He would pout if I didn't buy fruit. Now I just make sure that we have all kinds of fruit in the refrigerator. When we go to the market, we buy at least five different kinds of fruit. There are a lot of fruit in Taiwan, that's one of the reason we love Taiwan. There are a lot of fresh vegetables and fruit in Taiwan.


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## Idontknownow

greenpearl said:


> I always find girls riding horses fascinating to me, since the place I grew up had no horses. I grew up on a mountain village.
> When we were young, we only had vegetables to eat, little meat, once a month maybe. China was very poor at that time. I think the way I grew up makes it easy for me to be content.
> 
> My husband grew up on a Canadian farm. His mother is a traditional housewife. She made sure that they had a lot of vegetables and fruit to eat every day. That's why my husband insists having fruit every day. At my hometown, fruit was luxury when I was at home. I only got to have oranges when I was sick. So I never had a habit of eating fruit until I got married to my husband. He would pout if I didn't buy fruit. Now I just make sure that we have all kinds of fruit in the refrigerator. When we go to the market, we buy at least five different kinds of fruit. There are a lot of fruit in Taiwan, that's one of the reason we love Taiwan. There are a lot of fresh vegetables and fruit in Taiwan.


I can't ever imagine not riding horses. I have since I could walk and still do, as do my kids. This is my son and I at his first show this past summer 


I feel very much like you do. That I am content and happy with how I eat even if people call me a bird or rabbit 

It's so interesting to hear about different cultures and upbringings. Thank you for sharing that information about places I have never been to!


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## greenpearl

Idontknownow said:


> I can't ever imagine not riding horses. I have since I could walk and still do, as do my kids. This is my son and I at his first show this past summer
> 
> 
> I feel very much like you do. That I am content and happy with how I eat even if people call me a bird or rabbit
> 
> It's so interesting to hear about different cultures and upbringings. Thank you for sharing that information about places I have never been to!


WOW WOW WOW

SO CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTE!!!!!

YOU look terrific TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I love pictures like this. 

SO SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BlueEyedBeauty

Deejo said:


> Although I appreciate your taking the time to respond to the poster, I respectfully submit that these are the same unrealistic attitudes and responses that most women submit when they see a post like Buzz's. It is always far more about making the guy feel guilty that he is no longer attracted to his fat wife, than it is about the fat wife assuming responsibility for her own appearance and well-being.
> 
> If she has no desire or inclination to want to change her lifestyle, either for herself or her family, than your options are pretty clear-cut. Accept it and deal with it, or leave.
> 
> I personally know a woman who was morbidly obese. She is a sweetheart, but she simply wasn't attractive. SHE didn't feel attractive. Her husband still loved her dearly. Over the last 15 months she has lost over 150 lbs.
> 
> Anybody can come up with a litany of excuses as to why they can't do what she did. They simply don't wash. Choose better. Choose being healthy and feeling better about yourself, over excuses why you can't, don't, or won't do something.
> 
> I personally don't have much tolerance for the excuse crowd. In no uncertain terms, I could not stay with someone whom I couldn't be physically attracted to when it comes to the issue of weight management.


Well, then you really do not even know what it means to be in love then... But you have a right to think what you want- as I do


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## DawnD

I don't think the last half of this discussion is on course. The problem isn't who is "right" or "wrong" about how they view true love. The problem is that this is effecting this man's marriage. True love is perceived in many ways, just like marital needs. If I don't need Words of Affection, does that make me a bad wife? No, it means that I recognize love in a different way then those who need words the most. Are they wrong? Nope. Everyone is just different. To pretend that we can tell someone they are wrong for having a different view of true love is ridiculous. As long as you and your spouse view it the same, that is all that matters. No two marriages are exactly the same. Similar, yes. I hope everyone can get back to the point of this post, which is to find a way to help this man with his particular problem instead of turning into a debate of sorts. 

Buzz -- If the weight is this big of an issue in your marriage, perhaps seeking counseling together could help you two find the root of her problems first, and then talk about seeing a dietician together. You seem willing to forge with her on diets and exercise, so now you just have to help her find out WHY


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## Trenton

DawnD said:


> I don't think the last half of this discussion is on course. The problem isn't who is "right" or "wrong" about how they view true love. The problem is that this is effecting this man's marriage. True love is perceived in many ways, just like marital needs. If I don't need Words of Affection, does that make me a bad wife? No, it means that I recognize love in a different way then those who need words the most. Are they wrong? Nope. Everyone is just different. To pretend that we can tell someone they are wrong for having a different view of true love is ridiculous. As long as you and your spouse view it the same, that is all that matters. No two marriages are exactly the same. Similar, yes. I hope everyone can get back to the point of this post, which is to find a way to help this man with his particular problem instead of turning into a debate of sorts.
> 
> Buzz -- If the weight is this big of an issue in your marriage, perhaps seeking counseling together could help you two find the root of her problems first, and then talk about seeing a dietician together. You seem willing to forge with her on diets and exercise, so now you just have to help her find out WHY


I disagree when this is an issue that specifically targets women. This is his side of things, we have no idea if she feels the same or if she's truly fat much like all posts on this board...you're only getting one side. If I think a post is poop I'll say it and I hope this helps the poster because maybe he'll recognize that he's half the problem here.

I take offense to posts like these on behalf of all women and roll my eyes at women who don't take offense because I see them as part of the problem (but women routinely side against one another for many reasons). Can you guess how many men are anorexic or bulimic or have issues with over eating compared to women? Just as can you guess how many women posted that their husbands got fat and are no longer attractive compared to men who posted the same on this board?

If we got into studies you'd find that men routinely believe that they are more fit than they are (on a bmi basis) and women routinely believe they are fatter and need to be thinner than the normal bmi for their height/weight.
Then let's look at why and instead of patting these posters on the back, we should be calling them out for the shallow, women bashers they are.


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## BigBadWolf

Trenton,

You don't speak for all women.

Stop insulting women by insinuating that they are unable to speak for themselves just because you don't agree. 

THat is a very arrogant position to attempt to place yourself.

Thank you.


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> I personally know a woman who was morbidly obese. She is a sweetheart, but she simply wasn't attractive. SHE didn't feel attractive. Her husband still loved her dearly. Over the last 15 months she has lost over 150 lbs.


Deejo, wanted to ask you about this too actually. Does the woman find the excess skin sagging from her body attractive? I mean let's get real here. Kudos to the woman for the major weight loss but her body is hardly the epitome of a fashion model nor will it ever be unless she gets plastic surgery. Self acceptance is something that has to come from within and is very hard to attain.


----------



## Trenton

BigBadWolf said:


> Trenton,
> 
> You don't speak for all women.
> 
> Stop insulting women by insinuating that they are unable to speak for themselves just because you don't agree.
> 
> THat is a very arrogant position to attempt to place yourself.
> 
> Thank you.


Big Bad Wolf,

You don't speak for all men.

Stop insulting men everywhere by pretending your 21 years of marriage makes you an expert and immediate alpha male that has all the answers.

It is very arrogant of you.

Actually, how about I recognize that you have a right to your opinion and disagree with you when I don't think what you say is right and you can do the same with me? 

Thank you,

Michele


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## DawnD

Obesity isn't only about women. I can think of at least 10 times my husband and I have looked at each other and went, "oh, look. Little pudgy around the midsection. Time to hit the treadmill!"

He has been told this by me at least 6 times. I don't ever berate my friends who are overweight. It is a personal choice at a certaint point. You either choose to try, or choose to be happy with what you have. I choose to be as fit as I can be, and to be as healthy as I can ( without having to give up chocolate) while some choose not to be. Obviously my husband and I both had expectations that the other wouldn't let themselves go after the wedding, and we stick to that. I am not afraid to tell him he's getting alittle mushy and he isn't afraid to tell me. 

Trenton, I roll my eyes back, because you don't speak for me. I do. And I can sympathize with the struggles a spouse has with attraction when the other puts on large amounts of weight. Do I tell them to leave? No. But do I encourage them to help their spouse get healthier? Yep. Am I woman bashing? No. I am a huge supporter of getting women together in groups and exercising so they feel more comfortable going into gyms and public exercising areas. I arrange groups to go three times a week. Because I want to see my kids have their own families and I want my friends to be around for a long time to see theirs.


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## Trenton

DawnD said:


> Obesity isn't only about women. I can think of at least 10 times my husband and I have looked at each other and went, "oh, look. Little pudgy around the midsection. Time to hit the treadmill!"
> 
> He has been told this by me at least 6 times. I don't ever berate my friends who are overweight. It is a personal choice at a certaint point. You either choose to try, or choose to be happy with what you have. I choose to be as fit as I can be, and to be as healthy as I can ( without having to give up chocolate) while some choose not to be. Obviously my husband and I both had expectations that the other wouldn't let themselves go after the wedding, and we stick to that. I am not afraid to tell him he's getting alittle mushy and he isn't afraid to tell me.
> 
> Trenton, I roll my eyes back, because you don't speak for me. I do. And I can sympathize with the struggles a spouse has with attraction when the other puts on large amounts of weight. Do I tell them to leave? No. But do I encourage them to help their spouse get healthier? Yep. Am I woman bashing? No. I am a huge supporter of getting women together in groups and exercising so they feel more comfortable going into gyms and public exercising areas. I arrange groups to go three times a week. Because I want to see my kids have their own families and I want my friends to be around for a long time to see theirs.


There's a lot of eye rolling going on around here. 

You're right that I don't speak for you and I do appreciate that and listen to what you have to say our own experiences (mine in this case) can get in the way. 

I just feel that if we look at this topic using data and reasoning we'll find that the underlining issue is more complex than one man thinking his wife is fat. I was involved with a campaign to end ana (pro anorexia) websites online and when I got into the research I was so shocked and alarmed. I'm also an advocate against the sex slave trade and sexual abuse of women in general. You'd be amazed how often a man's view of attractive will dictate what a woman should look like as well as excuse cruelty and abuse to women and girls. It is a sore spot for me and one that upsets me greatly.

How is obesity in marriage linked to these issues? For me it's the same thing on a smaller scale. Am I taking my personal experiences and perceptions and making assumptions...I admit that I am but, honestly, aren't we all?


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## Deejo

Trenton said:


> Deejo, wanted to ask you about this too actually. Does the woman find the excess skin sagging from her body attractive? I mean let's get real here. Kudos to the woman for the major weight loss but her body is hardly the epitome of a fashion model nor will it ever be unless she gets plastic surgery. Self acceptance is something that has to come from within and is very hard to attain.


Excess skin? Yep, she does. Don't really understand your point? Are you saying she was already unattractive so why bother? 

I think you are being a bit contrary.

She's happy. She made a decision based on the fact that she has two children under 10, and was already staring diabetes in the face with a litany of other health issues down the road. 

She hikes, she bikes, she runs around with her kids. She did none of those things previously.

By her account, her husband never waivered. Loved her when she was morbidly obese, loves her now. 

I think she is a wonderful woman. I liked her when she was morbidly obese, and I like her thin. She's proud of her accomplishment.


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## Trenton

Deejo said:


> Excess skin? Yep, she does. Don't really understand your point? Are you saying she was already unattractive so why bother?
> 
> I think you are being a bit contrary.
> 
> She's happy. She made a decision based on the fact that she has two children under 10, and was already staring diabetes in the face with a litany of other health issues down the road.
> 
> She hikes, she bikes, she runs around with her kids. She did none of those things previously.
> 
> By her account, her husband never waivered. Loved her when she was morbidly obese, loves her now.
> 
> I think she is a wonderful woman. I liked her when she was morbidly obese, and I like her thin. She's proud of her accomplishment.


I agree with everything you say here and think it sounds like a fabulous relationship and she an amazing woman.

-But- If the topic we're discussing is about how a man can find his wife unattractive and demand/request that she lose the weight because it's a deal breaker for him then we should look at the attraction factor after large amounts of weight is lost right? That's why I questioned this. I wanted to make the point that in real life people don't go from morbidly obese to super model in an aesthetic sense. 

Weight is a larger issue than attraction and taking care of oneself. It is a very dynamic issue.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

Some men see the inside and the outside and truly love both and some focus on the outside (women too).

This is where the problem comes in. So I think its more of a visual aspect than a love aspect. My husband loves me, but I also know he didn't think I was attractive for the short time when I was overweight - that was okay - I didn't either. Doesn't mean he didn't love me. 

He is now a few pounds overweight and while it's not attractive, I still love him and will continue to love him.

The original poster (I believe) isn't finding his wife "attractive" at her current weight, doesn't mean he doesn't love her, he is just not physically attracted to her while she is overweight - doesn't mean he's judgmental or a jerk or doesn't love her, etc., fat turns him off - but she needs to know and she can make the decision as to whether that is important to her or not.

Different strokes...we can all agree to disagree, right?


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## Trenton

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Some men see the inside and the outside and truly love both and some focus on the outside (women too).
> 
> This is where the problem comes in. So I think its more of a visual aspect than a love aspect. My husband loves me, but I also know he didn't think I was attractive for the short time when I was overweight - that was okay - I didn't either. Doesn't mean he didn't love me.
> 
> He is now a few pounds overweight and while it's not attractive, I still love him and will continue to love him.
> 
> The original poster (I believe) isn't finding his wife "attractive" at her current weight, doesn't mean he doesn't love her, he is just not physically attracted to her while she is overweight - doesn't mean he's judgmental or a jerk or doesn't love her, etc., fat turns him off - but she needs to know and she can make the decision as to whether that is important to her or not.
> 
> Different strokes...we can all agree to disagree, right?


Way to get back on topic! Seriously, you're right here so we don't even have to agree to disagree. I can admit that I was making leaps from personal experience and that it doesn't help the poster at all or make him a bad husband, etc.

I was way off topic and apologize for that.


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## Deejo

In the realm of "I can only be responsible for, and change myself."
I just don't see it as making demands upon someone. Maybe that is why I DO see this as pretty straightforward.

I'm not sexually attracted to over-weight women. Were I in a relationship with a woman to whom I was sexually attracted and she simply stopped being invested in her health and appearance, using 'no time' or worse 'no desire' as an excuse, I would reiterate that health, fitness, and appearance are important to me.

If her response is to nosh down another sleeve of Oreos, I take that as a rejection of what is important to me. If Oreos are important to her, fine. I'm out.

This has just never been an issue for me because as others mentioned, it has been openly discussed - and I have always partnered with like-minded women. None of them were shallow or vain, they simply put a premium on staying active and fit. That is who I will always choose.


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## Trenton

Deejo said:


> In the realm of "I can only be responsible for, and change myself."
> I just don't see it as making demands upon someone. Maybe that is why I DO see this as pretty straightforward.
> 
> I'm not sexually attracted to over-weight women. Were I in a relationship with a woman to whom I was sexually attracted and she simply stopped being invested in her health and appearance, using 'no time' or worse 'no desire' as an excuse, I would reiterate that health, fitness, and appearance are important to me.
> 
> If her response is to nosh down another sleeve of Oreos, I take that as a rejection of what is important to me. If Oreos are important to her, fine. I'm out.
> 
> This has just never been an issue for me because as others mentioned, it has been openly discussed - and I have always partnered with like-minded women. None of them were shallow or vain, they simply put a premium on staying active and fit. That is who I will always choose.


So you'd never let it get to the obese stage to begin with you'd be out earlier on. Get it. So would your advice be to men who have stayed and have wives who are obese to get out too or would you tell them it's okay to want your wife to look different knowing full well even if she changes he'll have body issues in regards to her weight loss as well because weight loss is not as simple as fat to slim?

I'm talking in a purely attractive scale as I know weight loss has major health benefits for everyone. I'm just trying to stay in context to this post where he finds his wife unattractive because of obesity.


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## Deejo

Well to me, the kicker is that obesity doesn't happen over night.

Odds are, Buzz found his spouse _less_ attractive long before she became obese.

There was a threshold ... and she hit it. Everybody wants to be compassionate and accepting. I actually believe that is what most husbands, or wives, would do in this case; overlook the issue with the hope that the partner becoming obese will see this and want to change course. It is deflating when they don't make that decision.

But equally, at some point the mindset kicks in that their partner simply doesn't care. They don't care about themselves, and they obviously don't care about the thoughts and feelings of the other person. I'm not saying it is either right, or appropriate - but simply that it happens.

Just as many slip into extreme weight gain over time. The other partner at some level slips into ambivalence - and that translates into a fundamental lack of attraction.


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## takris

There is an aspect of obesity that hasn't really been focused on as much in this discussion. To some, it's only an issue for visual appeal, but some struggle more with the stigma and what it might say about the personality. Sometimes, we gain weight because of a lack of discipline in our lives. Don't know if its true, but I've heard that many women find this aspect more bothersome than me.

Either way, I've always tried to keep in shape, but not all of it is for health reasons or sexual attraction. How many leaders do you see in companies who are overweight? It's sad, but it matters more often than we realize.

My wife struggles with obesity, but I think that if she found a range where she was happy, and content, then it wouldn't be as much of an issue.


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## greenpearl

Self-control is being mentioned. 

She or he let go of their weight, I mean really let go, become a person who weighs 200 pounds or 300 pounds. 

Is it good? 

Does it show self-control? 

We laugh at a man who loses control over alcohol, how about weight? It is not the same?

Let's not talk about appearance, how about health? Is being over weight healthy? 

Japan is a rich nation, but their people are thin and slim. You don't see over weight people on the street. They eat a lot of fish, bean products, vegetables and fruit. They also use small bowls. They don't use big plates. And they live longer. 

Sigh...................................

People can live whatever way they are happy with! They don't like to be told that what they are doing is not good for them.

Who cares.....................................? Their family members!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## greenpearl

I adore people who have will-power. They realize that they have problems, they set goals to correct their problems. A few weeks ago there was JD. Don't we all want him to correct his problem and become a better man? 

It is OK to have a problem, if we know that we have problems, we correct them. The sad part is that a lot of people don't want to admit that they have problems, they sit there bicker and complain, but it is all other people's fault. 

Sigh................................

You are your own enemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Therealbrighteyes

Trenton,
I think I love you! 

"I just feel that if we look at this topic using data and reasoning we'll find that the underlining issue is more complex than one man thinking his wife is fat. I was involved with a campaign to end ana (pro anorexia) websites online and when I got into the research I was so shocked and alarmed. I'm also an advocate against the sex slave trade and sexual abuse of women in general. You'd be amazed how often a man's view of attractive will dictate what a woman should look like as well as excuse cruelty and abuse to women and girls. It is a sore spot for me and one that upsets me greatly."

I think their is a total double standard when it comes to men and women regarding weight. A man is allowed to get overweight and nobody questions it. A man has "love handles" when a woman is just "fat". That isn't a level playing field at all. Women are viewed way more harshly by society for being overweight or rather 20 lbs over what a man deems as acceptable. With the exception of Men's Health, there aren't many magazines catered to men calling them out on their weight. Women? I can think of hundreds of them. We are supposed to be slim, young, long hair, attractive at all times, worry about body hair, stretch marks, our breasts, our butt, how long our eyelashes are and worry/deal with any wrinkle on our face. Any man who doesn't see this and realize the pressure women are under to do all these things is a fool. 
Why do men get a pass in this? They can gain weight, lose their hair, get wrinkles and they are considered "distinguished". If a woman has that happen she is in essence cast out as undesirable. It's ridiculous.
Having said that, I would never loose weight for anybody but myself. I woke up one day and took a long hard look in the mirror and didn't like the body staring back at me. I joined a gym that very day. I have lost 46 pounds and kept it off for 3 years now. It was through sheer grit and determination that I did it. Had my husband said anything negative about my weight, I wouldn't have been as motivated as I was when I found it on my own. I am 5' 11". The extra 46 pounds did not put me as obese, not even close. In fact it put me in normal BMI for my height. Had my husband come to me and said he cared about "health issues", I would have seen right through it. It would never have been about health issues but rather his desire to see me thinner. I think alot of men fall in to this category. They want the trophy.
Granted this original post started with a husband wanting advice about talking to his morbidly obese wife. I think at that point you just come right out and say it: "Honey, I am scared that you won't be around to spend the rest of our lives together. I am worried and concerned". That is a normal response and he has totally legitimate reasons to tell her that. I do think though that from some of these posts and reading on other websites that men often ***** about their wife "gaining weight" and present it as "health concerns" when in reality it isn't about health at all. It is about a man wanting his wife to look a certain way. If that's the case, why not come out and be honest about it? We women can read through the bull**** better than you men know.


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## Deejo

Brennan said:


> It is about a man wanting his wife to look a certain way. If that's the case, why not come out and be honest about it? We women can read through the bull**** better than you men know.


Bottom line ... do you want to know if your partner is _losing or has lost_ attraction to and desire for you? I do. I don't care if it's because I'm fat, I snore, I won't open up and communicate, or I sing poorly in the shower.

That's why I _agree_ with you. I don't think it should be couched at all. 

If I choose to be passive aggressive about my partner telling me they don't find me attractive because of my behavior, and ignore or avoid the issue, then I really don't have a great deal to be surprised about when my partner either cheats or decides to leave. There is a problem - and neither party is served by ignoring it.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Deejo,
I would want to know. But if he parsed it as some health issue rather than what it really was, I would be livid. For most men this isn't really a health issue....let's be honest. This is about a man wanting a good looking wife. The issue I take are the men who make it out to be care and concern when in reality it is about shallowness. Men are visual and want a certain vision. 
Now, having said that, I think men expect their wives to look a certain way and don't expect the same for themselves. I go back to the double standard I pointed out. Obviously, many of you work out and take care of your bodies but I cannot even tell you how many men I have encountered who ***** about their wife's weight and I look at them and just shudder. So they should have a super model wife yet they look like Ron Jeremy (and not the good parts) LOL. It is a complete double standard.


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## greenpearl

Brennan, 

I don't want to hurt you, but from your other posts I get the feeling that you are not happy, from posts here I get the feeling that you are argumentative. If I am offending you, I am sorry. If you think a woman trying to stay sexy to please her husband is shallow, or a man asking his wife to stay sexy looking is shallow, then I can really tell you why you are not happy. 
If a person only thinks he is right and doesn't want to listen to other people's advice, then he will not learn to become a better person. 

We all have to be observant and try to do things to make our partners happy. 

If we want our spouses to make us happy, we have to make them happy first.


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## BigBadWolf

What's not to love about how Ron Jeremy looks? :scratchhead: 

The man just oozes with style. 

The Crocs, they are just the perfect exlamation point to his obvious attraction.


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## MEM2020

*dirty little secret that needs to get addressed*

There are a LOT of sexually strained marriages where the H feels starved in terms of frequency and the spouses are:
Her - overweight but not FAT
Him - skinny - he typically runs but doesn't lift and eats healthy

She might casually mention the appeal of a guy with some real upper body muscle mass but she doesn't push it because:
1. she lives in a glass house sitting on a foundation of 20-30 pounds of excess weight
2. she doesn't want to seem shallow

FWIW - my W does not have issue number 1, and thinks a healthy relationship matters more than some abstract notion of shallowness - so she is NOT shy about her aversion to the "skinny" look. 

But often the wife in the situation above doesn't tell him that the "skinny" look is unsexy. And he doesn't ask because sadly - he is somewhat clueless and actually wouldn't think that being really "fit" could turn anyone off. 

So lets lighten up on the gender specific aspect of this. We are both inclined to hypocrisy. For every fat man with no tolerance for fat women, I can show you a woman who has selected a job/career that she likes and/or that is not overly stressful and yet complains that "they - meaning her husband" don't have enough money. Which is clearly a case of "it is YOUR job to go be the provider - and you aren't providing enough". 







Brennan said:


> Trenton,
> I think I love you!
> 
> "I just feel that if we look at this topic using data and reasoning we'll find that the underlining issue is more complex than one man thinking his wife is fat. I was involved with a campaign to end ana (pro anorexia) websites online and when I got into the research I was so shocked and alarmed. I'm also an advocate against the sex slave trade and sexual abuse of women in general. You'd be amazed how often a man's view of attractive will dictate what a woman should look like as well as excuse cruelty and abuse to women and girls. It is a sore spot for me and one that upsets me greatly."
> 
> I think their is a total double standard when it comes to men and women regarding weight. A man is allowed to get overweight and nobody questions it. A man has "love handles" when a woman is just "fat". That isn't a level playing field at all. Women are viewed way more harshly by society for being overweight or rather 20 lbs over what a man deems as acceptable. With the exception of Men's Health, there aren't many magazines catered to men calling them out on their weight. Women? I can think of hundreds of them. We are supposed to be slim, young, long hair, attractive at all times, worry about body hair, stretch marks, our breasts, our butt, how long our eyelashes are and worry/deal with any wrinkle on our face. Any man who doesn't see this and realize the pressure women are under to do all these things is a fool.
> Why do men get a pass in this? They can gain weight, lose their hair, get wrinkles and they are considered "distinguished". If a woman has that happen she is in essence cast out as undesirable. It's ridiculous.
> Having said that, I would never loose weight for anybody but myself. I woke up one day and took a long hard look in the mirror and didn't like the body staring back at me. I joined a gym that very day. I have lost 46 pounds and kept it off for 3 years now. It was through sheer grit and determination that I did it. Had my husband said anything negative about my weight, I wouldn't have been as motivated as I was when I found it on my own. I am 5' 11". The extra 46 pounds did not put me as obese, not even close. In fact it put me in normal BMI for my height. Had my husband come to me and said he cared about "health issues", I would have seen right through it. It would never have been about health issues but rather his desire to see me thinner. I think alot of men fall in to this category. They want the trophy.
> Granted this original post started with a husband wanting advice about talking to his morbidly obese wife. I think at that point you just come right out and say it: "Honey, I am scared that you won't be around to spend the rest of our lives together. I am worried and concerned". That is a normal response and he has totally legitimate reasons to tell her that. I do think though that from some of these posts and reading on other websites that men often ***** about their wife "gaining weight" and present it as "health concerns" when in reality it isn't about health at all. It is about a man wanting his wife to look a certain way. If that's the case, why not come out and be honest about it? We women can read through the bull**** better than you men know.


----------



## greenpearl

In Taiwan, there are a lot of beauty salons, hair salons, sexy clothing stores, high heel shoe stores. In department stores, the entire first floor is for makeup, lotion, cream, and perfume. 

Business people make the most money out of women. 

It is just in our nature to look feminine and attractive for our men and ourselves. If a woman thinks that she can be like men and look like men, then I shudder.


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## Therealbrighteyes

GP,
Aspects of my life make me unhappy. That is why so many of us are here. If my marriage was perfect, I wouldn't be here.
I am sorry if I came off as argumentative. I was trying to say that yes, we do need to look our best and I have an expectation of my husband to look a certain way, as he does with me. There is however a gross imbalance when it comes to other marriages. A woman is almost vilified for getting heavier but a man gets a pass. I don't think I am off with that statement. Again, this isn't all marriages but quite a few. I have seen it with friends, neighbors, etc.


----------



## greenpearl

Brennan said:


> GP,
> Aspects of my life make me unhappy. That is why so many of us are here. If my marriage was perfect, I wouldn't be here.
> I am sorry if I came off as argumentative. I was trying to say that yes, we do need to look our best and I have an expectation of my husband to look a certain way, as he does with me. There is however a gross imbalance when it comes to other marriages. A woman is almost vilified for getting heavier but a man gets a pass. I don't think I am off with that statement. Again, this isn't all marriages but quite a few. I have seen it with friends, neighbors, etc.


Brennan

It is true that the society has double standards considering men and women. Please don't think I am happy with it. 

There had been posts from women who complain their husbands become obese and they lost sexual attraction to them.

I don't like men who have big watermelons on their belly. I don't think I'll be happy if my husband has a lot of jelly on his stomach. We both remind each other not to walk hunch-backed. Maybe we care too much.

But one day I was asking my husband why a lot of men don't want to have sex with their wives anymore, he told me that the women stopped taking care of themselves physically. I know there are other reasons also. Men are visual animals, so appearance means more to them. We can forgo that because we focus on men's ability and affection. 

All of us are here for a purpose. Nobody's life is full of flowers. I want you to be happy, and the best way to achieve happiness is by examining ourselves actually.


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## Mom6547

Disclaimer: I have not read all the posts. One of the things about weight loss is that it seems so HARD. I remember my size 16 self looking at the prospect of a *lifestyle change* that seemed to mean no more mashed potatoes and a host of other things I loved. I had a bunch of uber health nut friends running marathons. I did not WANT to exercise that hard. That is not ME. I wanted to stay me. And it was SCARY thinking I was going to be overweight for the rest of my life or have to turn into someone else.

All of the changes in my life that I have made successfully have been made with baby steps. I am baby stepping my way back to flylady household routines. I am baby stepping my way through Total Money Makeover. Years ago I started baby stepping my way to better eating and health habits. When you baby step, you just look at doing THIS step. You don't even really need to focus on the effects. 

Could she be just plain scared that the process of losing weight is so overwhelming? Maybe baby steps would help her.

If she is an emotional eater, but does not want to go to counseling, perhaps you guys could do a self-study. I did a search in amazon. There are a bunch of books on the subject. Learning helps combat alzheimers. So anything you learned would be good for you too! And she could share experiences from the book that she associates with and ones she does not. Perhaps you could get to know each other better.

Baby step one might be a short daily walk. Baby step two might be substituting veggie sticks for one unhealthy snack a day. Baby step three might be meal planning. (For ME meal planning is key to having healthy food on hand to prevent emergency bad choices.)

Make sure you are showing her a lot of affection and affirmation. If you are having a hard time feeling sexual attraction, there is still room for hugs and cuddles. Changing is HARD. Focus on the process, not the outcome.

A couple of general weight loss tips that worked for me...

My husband was always supportive but would sometimes have to remind me that weight is a sensitive issue and that he was not trying to be denigrating. He told me he loved me a LOT.

I make up a lot of food in advance and freeze. I buy spinach and mushrooms, sautee the mushrooms, onion and wilt the spinach. Mix with one egg and egg beaters in a ziplock back and freeze. When I need a healthy breakfast, I take it out, stick it in warm water to thaw, then scramble. For example. 

I puree veggie soups because I find drinking veggies easier. You can get good flavor out of curry powders and whatnot. These help manage hunger.

I found exercise that *I* enjoy. I started with aerobic dance videos that I could do in my on home so no one would see how out of shape I was. Then I began finding other things I enjoyed like various dance exercise and yoga. 

We found things that were active to do together. We like to hike. We tame them down to MY level. DH runs with me because he enjoys my company though the pace for him is barely over a walk.

She has to be willing to start a baby stepping journey though. If not, then I think the only thing to do is to is to become kind of serious... demand counseling and whatnot.

Good luck!


----------



## Mom6547

OoiTsumi said:


> Inhale/exhale.. eat/don't eat.. don't see a difference there. All I'm saying is you can call it love all you want but it doesn't make it any less conditional.


This is an interesting point. I don't remember ever promising my husband *unconditional* love. Nor did he promise that to me either. There are always going to be something like conditions. We call them "deal breakers". Is someone cheats, deal breaker for some. 

I don't think I feel unconditional love for my husband. I feel a very, very strong commitment to him and thus a desire to work on the marriage and the love when it flags. But unconditional? Nope.


I have unconditional love for my children.


----------



## Mom6547

Trenton said:


> Weight, unlike hygiene, becomes more difficult to maintain as we get older.


I don't understand the expectation that things in life won't be difficult. Life IS difficult. Changing habits in life is a requirement. It makes not sense to me to use difficulty as a reason not to do something.



> To those who spoke about unconditional love being an impossibility...this saddens me for you. It certainly is possible but you wouldn't recognize it because your wife or husband would gain 30 pounds and you'd still look at them and swoon.


I don't find it sad at all! I find it exhilarating! Life offers us some wonderful challenges. And we get to meet them!


----------



## Mom6547

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> As someone who once WAS overweight due to a medical condition (since resolved, back to normal weight again) - someone who has NEVER been overweight cannot EVER truly understand the struggle that overweight people have. You can empathize, but NEVER understand if you, yourself have never been overweight.


Some of us who WERE fat don't understand this supposed horrible struggle. You learn to do things differently. At first, as with any habit changes, it is hard. For me the hard part was the first few weeks when I felt hungry a lot and had gas from the increase in vegetables.

But then the habit strengthens. And you get a bunch of benefits. I have more energy. I have more fun activities that I can do now that I am a little fitter....

It always seems weird to me that people think life isn't supposed to be hard.



> We know we're FAT, OVERWEIGHT and look bad. I don't think anyone who is or has been overweight has a sheet hanging over their bathroom mirror. But, for some of them, they haven't figured out why they are overeating and until they do - they can't solve it. While they can lose weight on a diet - it will just come back because they haven't fixed the underlying issue of what got them grossly overweight in the first place.


It is true that like anything it is a PROCESS. The main problem with most diets is you don't change your MIND. You suffer through the nonsense of the diet until you are "done." And then having deprived yourself, you treat yourself back to the place you were. Depressing.




> The weight is the symptom - but not the problem.


Not for everyone. Not everyone eats for comfort or for other reasons. When I was young, I just plain had a high metabolism. I could eat whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. I was RAIL thin. 5'8" I weighed 105 soaking wet. I HAD to eat those calories. I learned bad eating habits. Then 25 hit and POOOOF. I grew to enormous.

Weight was the only problem. Prior to that, I was as healthy as could be eating the calories my body needed.

Had to change my eating habits to match my new metabolic situation.


----------



## Trenton

Brennan, it's always great to find someone that agrees with you! You are obviously pro woman which is always refreshing.

Mem, I have never had a friend or seen in my life a woman who complained or was effected by her husband's/boyfriend's weight as much as I've seen men be affected by their wife's/girlfriend's weight. It could just be the different circles that we keep.

vthome, in the first part you took my quote out of context. I was referring to the argument that men believe women should stay the same weight as when they were first married. They often say you can't compare overweight to baldness or other natural processes and what I was saying was that gaining weight and changing shape is a natural part of age. I wasn't implying that you couldn't work hard to counter this, choose to eat better foods, or inject botox in your face, dye your hair or whatever. I was just saying it wasn't natural to stay the same exact weight/shape at 40 as you were at 20. If you ate the same things and maintained the same activities, you'd still be a different shape/look at 40.

The second part, I've thought about it some and agree that love between parent/child is unconditional for me but love between my husband and I is not. It was a naive, fairytale wish but unrealistic. I'm not sure how I find it on an emotional level honestly. It is what it is.


----------



## Trenton

greenpearl said:


> Brennan,
> 
> I don't want to hurt you, but from your other posts I get the feeling that you are not happy, from posts here I get the feeling that you are argumentative. If I am offending you, I am sorry. If you think a woman trying to stay sexy to please her husband is shallow, or a man asking his wife to stay sexy looking is shallow, then I can really tell you why you are not happy.
> If a person only thinks he is right and doesn't want to listen to other people's advice, then he will not learn to become a better person.
> 
> We all have to be observant and try to do things to make our partners happy.
> 
> If we want our spouses to make us happy, we have to make them happy first.


Hey GP, your posts drive me insane too. Maybe because you're so agreeable and feel the need to use excessive smilies. Besides, don't you think you are right in thinking she thinks she's right hence you are no better of a person? Anyway, I think Brennan comes across as intelligent, articulate and willing to stand up for what she believes. I find these traits admirable. You come off as agreeable, overly happy and wishing to please which I find less admirable. We view our worlds from our own rose colored glasses.


----------



## Mom6547

Trenton said:


> vthome, in the first part you took my quote out of context. I was referring to the argument that men believe women should stay the same weight as when they were first married.


Well first I don't think one can even assert that as generally true. But even then I don't see how that changes my comment. Yes it DOES get harder as you age. Life is hard.



> They often say you can't compare overweight to baldness or other natural processes and what I was saying was that gaining weight and changing shape is a natural part of age.


Ahhhhh I understand your point. I don't agree with it! But at least now I understand it. Or at least I don't agree that that makes a compelling argument for allowing yourself to remain fat. One CAN'T change baldness. One CAN change weight. I CAN'T change my freckles. So there is not much point to my busting my head against the wall. If DH doesn't find me attractive because I have freckles, we would need to learn to deal. 

Going one step further, I think the whole societal it's soooo HAAAAAARRRRD is actually detrimental in a lot of ways. USAians have become societally entitled wimps. I CANNNNNT step away from the Doritos because it is sooooooo HAAAAAARD to be sad and not eat Doritos!

Please.

The ONE factor I find makes it quite challenging is that the fresh foods found on the outside walls of the super market tend to be pricier than the crap on the inside aisles. Fresh produce, lean meat, fish... They are EXPENSIVE. We accommodate this by stocking up and freezing during sales. But lots of people don't have access or space for a second freezer like we do.

I would love to see some kind of accessibility program from the government to deal with skyrocketting food prices. We have a lot of farms around here since I live in a rural place. So we can buy local produce in season. But local healthy meats are EXPENSIVE. Vegetarianism is not an option for my DH since he is a weight lifter and needs a fair amount of protein. 



> I wasn't implying that you couldn't work hard to counter this, choose to eat better foods, or inject botox in your face, dye your hair or whatever. I was just saying it wasn't natural to stay the same exact weight/shape at 40 as you were at 20.


What, exactly, does it mean to be natural? And is it something that generally we think is important? Arsenic is "natural". I don't chose to consume it. I have a naturally aging uterus that is causing trouble. I am getting rid of it.

That said, I am not even sure it IS natural to be fat as we age. I read somewhere that your caloric needs go down as you age as an adaptation to the fact that we can move and capture less food as we age. So as our ability to acquire calories goes down, so too does our need for them. Maybe it IS natural to not be fat as we age.


----------



## Trenton

vthome, it's Biology. You can google it 

If we talk about weight from a health perspective I'm with you but here we're talking about appearance only, specifically making sure your body stays appealing to your husband.


----------



## greenpearl

Trenton said:


> Hey GP, your posts drive me insane too. Maybe because you're so agreeable and feel the need to use excessive smilies. Besides, don't you think you are right in thinking she thinks she's right hence you are no better of a person? Anyway, I think Brennan comes across as intelligent, articulate and willing to stand up for what she believes. I find these traits admirable. You come off as agreeable, overly happy and wishing to please which I find less admirable. We view our worlds from our own rose colored glasses.


You can think whatever you want. I agree with people if they are right. I am never popular among women, I know that clearly.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

To GP and Trenton,
My intent was not to upset anyone. I post from my heart and I speak my mind. Posting online doesn't always come out the way it was intended. I was in no way trying to antagonize anybody so I apologize if it came out that way. 
GP, I appreciate your insight. You seem to be in a good place in your marriage and I applaud that. You also bring to the table a different cultural perspective that while I don't always agree with, I can accept as being your own. 
Trenton, I really admire you and the things you are doing in your life to make this world a better place for us. I think both you and I come off a bit harsh but I think that is just because we speak our minds and don't mince words. 
I do think that we ALL agree that when it comes to issues of weight within marriage, it should be fair and balanced. I take care of myself, as does my husband. I should not expect him to look like David Beckham if I am overweight. Just like he shouldn't expect me to look like Angelina Jolie if he is packing a keg. I do stand by my original posts that many men fall back on the "visual" part. It's a pass for them, if you will. If you want something nice to look at, guess what? I do too. I don't think women are less visual. I think we are just able to see the other qualities in our men more.


----------



## BigBadWolf

While Men and women are similar needs regarding attraction (fit, healthy, balanced, which are simply primal breeding thoughts), men and women have very different needs concerning long term relationships.

Men require very much these same things throughout the relationshiops, visiual stimulation, the feelings of success by winning the attraction of a beautiful and desirable woman. To a man, these things basically remain the same throughout the relationship.

Womens needs are far different, and from the male she is needing not only visual appeal, but also the feeling of winning a man who is successful of being a protector and provider. These things, why a woman will care about jobs and career from even a somewhat less attractive man, or an older man.

So the lesson in all this, to pay attention to what roles are expected in a relationship, even if they are hard to face.

The womans role, to not just be a friend or buddy, but to maintain the appeal of sexual attraction to her man. This is why it is harsh for a woman to hear if she is not successful at attractivness.

And the mans role, to not just be a friend or buddy, but to be the proper protector and provider. This is why it is harsh to hear for a man that is is not succesful in his career providing.

Sure, these roles can be modified to whatever extent necessary for social beliefs, but in doing so, run the great risk of killing sexual attraction.

The utilitarian roles and structures of sexual attraction, there is only so much wiggle room to move the utilitarian roles around, and much less for sexual attraction.

Much like lading cargo on a ship, no matter what may look good to place all on one side or the other, or to put on top which needs to go underside, or to put underside what needs to go on top, too much unbalance on one side or the other, and the ship will capsize.

Be sure such a ship cares not one bit about politics or social wishes!


----------



## Deejo

Chick Fight! Awesome ...


----------



## greenpearl

Deejo said:


> Chick Fight! Awesome ...


BEAT YOU! PUNCH YOU! KICK YOUR ASS!

AWESOME!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Ha, ha...no chick fight. Nope. I was saying that I appreciate her input as I do Trenton's. Totally different perspectives and both appreciated by me. Since it appeared my post caused some rift, I wanted to post about my intent. We all have our own opinions about what works and does not work. I respect everybody on this board even the ones I don't agree with. Put away the popcorn, Deejo. LOL. And put away the movie Old School. We aren't "wrestling" in a vat of KY. Just healthy differences among us women.


----------



## Trenton

GP, of course I will think what I want as you will and I don't much care who you are popular with. I can get along with you and find your posting style irritating. I was pointing out that your perception is just that, your perception. I respect you for your opinions and thoughts even if I perceive them a certain way which could obviously be flawed especially in this setting.

Brennan I know I often come across far harsher than I am but this is an internet forum so I'm comfortable with that.

I'm sure I could have the both of you for a dinner party and all three of us would have an amazing time together :smthumbup:


----------



## greenpearl

Trenton said:


> GP, of course I will think what I want as you will and I don't much care who you are popular with. I can get along with you and find your posting style irritating. I was pointing out that your perception is just that, your perception. I respect you for your opinions and thoughts even if I perceive them a certain way which could obviously be flawed especially in this setting.
> 
> Brennan I know I often come across far harsher than I am but this is an internet forum so I'm comfortable with that.
> 
> I'm sure I could have the both of you for a dinner party and all three of us would have an amazing time together :smthumbup:


Drink tea or coffee?


----------



## Mom6547

Trenton said:


> vthome, it's Biology. You can google it


Yes! I spoke to that exactly. From an evolutionary standpoint! 


> If we talk about weight from a health perspective I'm with you but here we're talking about appearance only, specifically making sure your body stays appealing to your husband.


Yes I know. I guess I LIKE to do things to please my husband. I find the reciprocity that that engenders is pretty awesome too!


----------



## Deejo

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Yes I know. I guess I LIKE to do things to please my husband. I find the reciprocity that that engenders is pretty awesome too!


Funny how that works, huh?


----------



## Mom6547

BigBadWolf said:


> While Men and women are similar needs regarding attraction (fit, healthy, balanced, which are simply primal breeding thoughts), men and women have very different needs concerning long term relationships.
> 
> Men require very much these same things throughout the relationshiops, visiual stimulation, the feelings of success by winning the attraction of a beautiful and desirable woman. To a man, these things basically remain the same throughout the relationship.
> 
> Womens needs are far different, and from the male she is needing not only visual appeal, but also the feeling of winning a man who is successful of being a protector and provider. These things, why a woman will care about jobs and career from even a somewhat less attractive man, or an older man.
> 
> So the lesson in all this, to pay attention to what roles are expected in a relationship, even if they are hard to face.
> 
> The womans role, to not just be a friend or buddy, but to maintain the appeal of sexual attraction to her man. This is why it is harsh for a woman to hear if she is not successful at attractivness.
> 
> And the mans role, to not just be a friend or buddy, but to be the proper protector and provider. This is why it is harsh to hear for a man that is is not succesful in his career providing.


I almost started a different thread in general discussion about the usefulness of gender generalizations in understanding marriage. This post so perfectly brings this idea forth.

Many, many, many people don't see men and women's "roles" like this at all. I don't view my husband's role as provider at ALL. I came into this marriage perfectly capable of supporting myself and my family. 

My husband is happy that I remain attractive. But that is not the first strenght and value he sees in my. It is, in fact, my strength to which he refers most often.

My father-in-law can want for DH to make the decisions and hand them down to me with a benevolent iron fist. But that is just NEVER going to be us. 

I wonder how many troubled marriages have this gender generalization expectation versus attempting to understand the actual PARTNER's goals and desires rather than their gender role? I know that played a large part in my husband and my problems early on. I expected him to act the part of "husband" - "man." I expected him to pay the bills, this and that. He sucked at paying the bills. (Etcetera, that is just an example.)

I realized, finally, that I had not fallen in love with a role. I had stopped valuing the things in him that I had fallen in love with in the first things. The things that were DIFFERENT than me. The spontenaity. The fun loving, joyful, playful person. *I* can be the anal retentive payer of bills and organizer of things.

As the HDP in our relationship, if maintaining attractiveness if of more importance to one of us, it is me! 

By letting go of role expectations and starting to look at each others' actual strengths, desires, we were able to put together a scene that actually MEETS both our needs.





> Sure, these roles can be modified to whatever extent necessary for social beliefs, but in doing so, run the great risk of killing sexual attraction.
> 
> The utilitarian roles and structures of sexual attraction, there is only so much wiggle room to move the utilitarian roles around, and much less for sexual attraction.
> 
> Much like lading cargo on a ship, no matter what may look good to place all on one side or the other, or to put on top which needs to go underside, or to put underside what needs to go on top, too much unbalance on one side or the other, and the ship will capsize.
> 
> Be sure such a ship cares not one bit about politics or social wishes!


I don't really understand what you are saying here, but I am interested. Are you willing to take another stab?


----------



## Trenton

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Yes! I spoke to that exactly. From an evolutionary standpoint!
> 
> 
> Yes I know. I guess I LIKE to do things to please my husband. I find the reciprocity that that engenders is pretty awesome too!


So...then you do understand that your body evolves, your hormones change and the appearance will change as well? Great!

Again, Great! That doesn't make the fact that you will age and your body will change any different.


----------



## Trenton

greenpearl said:


> Drink tea or coffee?


Definitely tea!


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> Funny how that works, huh?


You're just bitter.


----------



## Mom6547

Trenton said:


> So...then you do understand that your body evolves, your hormones change and the appearance will change as well? Great!


You assume that nature intended for your body to change. I don't assume that. Your caloric needs change. You assume that nature intended for us to continue to take in the same amount of calories. I don't assume that.



> Again, Great! That doesn't make the fact that you will age and your body will change any different.


Already have the smile lines.


----------



## Deejo

Trenton said:


> You're just bitter.


No. I'm bitter-sweet.


----------



## Trenton

Deejo said:


> No. I'm bitter-sweet.


----------



## Buzz

cherrypie18 said:


> If weight is not important, since it's HER body, then why is hygiene? It's still the spouse's body right? They don't need to shower or brush their teeth for their wife/husband. It's their body and they can keep it dirty and smelling like crap and the spouse should love and accept them for their soul.
> 
> I thought married people were supposed to care about each others opinions and concerns in every aspect including the physical appearance.
> 
> I also thought married people lived for _each other_ and not for only themselves...why should you change your bad habits, mental issues, make your spouse go to counseling because they have anger problems and many such things, but when it comes to weight, it means you're controlling and you need piss off because it's their body?
> 
> Morbid obesity is a health problem and it could kill sex, and a marriage without sex doesn't last very long.
> 
> Does this look healthy or even attractive? The one on the far right is ok but the rest, not so much.


----------



## greenpearl

Buzz

What are you doing? I thought you posted something new, came to check, it is just the same picture. 

How about you posting some more pictures here and let us have a laugh!!




Check this, a bunch of big men!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aht7zdiN9k


----------



## Buzz

Sorry I guess the text didn't attach. I was merely agreeing with cherrypie18 about sex and marriage. I have no sexual attraction for her. I can't remember the last year we had sex. Loved the pictures.


----------



## greenpearl

Buzz said:


> Sorry I guess the text didn't attach. I was merely agreeing with cherrypie18 about sex and marriage. I have no sexual attraction for her. I can't remember the last year we had sex. Loved the pictures.


You mean your wife?

I will feel very bad for you if you wife looks like the women on the picture. I find it gross, too. 

I was very amused by watching the fat men. 

I run away from men like those! 

RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN! Gross!!!


----------



## Bloodymary

Call center....diabetes, and weight gain should be required disclosure when you start working at one. SURE...there are 6 foot 1 inch, 93lb. chicks working there...but they always run into the bathroom right after lunch. I'm fluctuating in weight right now but I've never gone over the weight I was when my husband laid eyes on me. If he starts b*tiching about my weight he can shut it, if he didn't like me then he shouldn't have called back.....


----------



## PolkaDottedJams

BlueEyedBeauty said:


> You, know you are suppose to​love your wife no matter what- and looks do not matter- it is what is in her heart that does matter... How, do you really know that your wife does not have something wrong with her that is making her gain all the weight she is gaining? Has she been having any or a lot of depression? Because that will do it for sure, is her health alright? like with her thyorid's? because that right there would be the reason on putting on a lot of weight...
> 
> I do though see why,​you are upset over this- you, did not meet her that way- you did not fall in love, with her like that. But still that is only her body though; it is not what makes her, who she is; her heart is what made her the person that she is; her heart is what gives her love to you, her devotion to you, her soul, her everything... I am sure there are also somethings your wife, does not like about you, but she is not out here posting bad things on you, saying how she cannot stand being seen with you; Love, is so precious, it is something that is rare to come by; not many people really do get the chande of having real true love and do not get to share the feeling of being in love.




I'm guessing the now-banned BEB was roughly 350 lbs when she wrote this? Pardon me, but looks DO matter! They are not--and _should _not be--at the top of the list, but they _*are *_on the list . . . and at some point can become a deal breaker. This is the basic mindset of people that are fit and trim and who refuse to pack on extra weight for reasons of appearance, health, social advancement, and psychological/spiritual well-being, like it or not. This is not shallow; this is _normal _. . . and fairly reasonable, if you ask me.

Besides, true love does not make a glutton of itself and then ask someone else to co-revel in its gluttony and enable/endorse its poor sense of self.


----------



## Lyris

Why are you resurrecting all these old 'take my wife, she's fat' threads?


----------



## PolkaDottedJams

Why do you ask?


----------



## Lyris

Because it's weird. I just looked at your post history and all your posts are in the same kinds of threads, some of which have been inactive since 2010. 

It's troll-type behaviour. Trying to stir up controversy for fun.


----------



## PolkaDottedJams

Lyris, you've been around for a while. I just jumped on board via a Google search about people gaining weight and their spouses suffering disappointment as a result, as I know people in this situation and the suffering it creates . . . not to mention the fact that it happened to me. I am not trying to stir up controversy for fun and I am no troll. I am merely registering my opinion as you have done on here some 454 times. I've only been on this forum for a number of hours and am streamlined in my interests as of yet until I have had a chance to branch out and investigate the forum at length. And the last thing I expected to encounter was someone like you refereeing me in my brand-new status on a "brand-new" forum and calling my behavior weird. 

Please . . . mind your manners.


----------



## PolkaDottedJams

Btw, you're off-topic--a breach of forum policy and officially listed as "hi-jacking" threads. Interesting you should call me a troll. They do have Inboxes around here, do they not?


----------



## anonim

EDIT: 2y/o thread ^^


----------



## Maricha75

anonim said:


> The only person you're speaking on behalf of is yourself. No one else.


Although I know this is a zombie thread, I was compelled to reply to this particular part of your post, anonim. Trenton DOES speak for me as well, although she wrote that post years before I even joined. I am so glad that my husband was concerned about me, my health, my weight when I got as big as one of the larger girls in that pic on this page. I am so glad he loved, and still loves me at over 300 pounds, after I only lost 200 pounds when I had weight loss surgery, but gained some of that weight back. 

I am so glad that my husband didn't throw me over for a new model when I gained all that weight. And, I didn't throw him over when he started gaining weight from his medications. There are reasons for everything, not just that someone is too lazy to get off their asses and move around or that they just need to cut back on how much they eat. Some eat too little, thinking the problem is that they have been eating too much. That does more harm than good. So, before people start making comments about these things, perhaps they should get the entire picture, not just what they THINK is going on.

Again, sorry for continuing the zombie thread.


----------



## PolkaDottedJamz

Is there something illegal about adding to a two-year old thread just because the OP is no longer around? I think the subject is still very relevant.


----------



## cloudwithleggs

Deejo said:


> Out of curiousity, how did you get beyond feeling powerless? I agree that probably describes a majority of women that find themselves in this all too common circumstance.


There are plenty of super morbid obese *MEN!*

Apparently Australia has taken over the obesity crown, presently watching Australia's biggest loser 




Deejo said:


> Personality disorders and thyroid conditions aside, most people would rather b!tch about being fat than taking the overwhelmingly positive and beneficial steps to remedy the situation. I find that sad, and yes, it makes me angry at times.
> 
> My absolute is that I would have a difficult time having chosen a fit and healthy partner and then watching her let herself go, because she no longer feels like she has to 'try' to be attractive. I simply would not be ok with that. Illness in whatever form is different kettle of fish. But, when it comes down to it, you don't have a lot of control over the circumstances if your partner is no longer attractive to you. Beating yourself up over it doesn't do anyone any good.
> 
> I'm by no means a Narcissist. I like fried food, ice cream, salty snacks, butter, and bacon just as much as everyone else. But I think about what I'm putting in my mouth, and I exercise to keep ADD, asthma, and familial high cholesterol in check.


He said the "N" word, plus i like salty snacks  i also consider carefully what i put in my mouth. I am with the belief you can eat anything within reason, no such thing as a diet.

waves i have a thyroid condition for over 15 years, sometimes i'm unwell, but i have never been fat or even overweight, BMI is either 19 or get's to 20 when thyroid goes out.

Fat men and sex do not mix :sleeping: only ripped men and sex mix


----------



## Deejo

This subject comes up pretty consistently.

There are those that believe that it does not and should not matter in matters of attraction.

My position is that it very much matters.

And that's the extent of it. I know that many people struggle with this issue.


----------



## oldgeezer

Buzz said:


> I have exercised and kept my weight in control before and during our marriage. My wife has let herself go to the point of being morbidly obese. I'm embarrased to be seen with her. I have paid for gym memberships, weight control programs all without success. Is there anyone else experiencing this dilema?


Just one word of advice... Having been (and am still, but not nearly so) obese, the business of trying to lose it is very difficult, because it is dealing with something that is easier to block out than deal with. 

If I were you... My advice would be to figure out the time when there is no other urgent distraction and say "I love you, and I want you to stay alive. And I want you to be happy and healthy, and this isn't working. And most important, I want you to get control of your own health for you. I am not demanding, I am not criticising, I am not pressuring... I want you to understand that I will do anything and everything in my power to support you, including eating your diet, giving you any amount of time and any level of support, including going with you and doing whatever you need to do."

You cannot make another person take care of themselves. The more you pressure them, the harder it is for them to do anything or take positive steps, because it is very difficult to face your worst demons and take on your worst failures. 

I know, I'm doing it, despite having animosity ( I'm just stunned at this ) from my wife for doing it without her controlling it in detail. I can only dream of having someone who would SUPPORT, not confront with anger and demands... Be that person. I'm going to lose 50 lbs this calendar year, maybe more. I'm now far more fit, as well. 

It's a heartache you cannot imagine to do this and then have your wife be angry because she's not controlling how you do it, despite endless lectures about how serious and deadly it is.


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## Lyris

How does your wife want to control it, OldGeezer?


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## oldgeezer

Lyris said:


> How does your wife want to control it, OldGeezer?


She wants me to ask her what to do and then do it, exclusive of my own opinions and anything else I read or find. 

If I read stuff, she starts in on me "why did I bother to go to school, and spend all these years learning, if your'e just going to ignore me and ..blah blah blah" 

And no matter what the topic or otherwise, this is how it goes. If she finds out about ANYTHING that's a problem or any issue, then she has to get her say, and if you don't follow her say, it's angry lashing out from her until you're so worn down you do it. And it's "you're not listening to me, you're shutting me out, nobody cares, I"m just a nobody, I"m stupid, why won't anyone listen, blah, blah blah" unless you follow her demands to the letter. 

It's all emotional blackmail to get her way. On the other hand, she's so demanding that I act and do things all the time to validate her feelings and make HER happy. But insists that nothing she can do should ever make me feel compelled or controlled. And goes into angry defiance if there's even a suggestion anything she does might anger or frustrate someone. It's the "you must make me happy, how dare you suggest my behavior makes you unhappy" mode.

Another part of this, is that she reads into anything I say, don't say, do, or don't do, anything she wants, and it's ALWAYS negative. So, her computer suddenly starts crashing. If I try to find and fix the problem, I get lashed out at in anger "what, you think I'm stupid and can't do fix things myself"? 

so, the next day when the same things happen, it's "You just sit there doing nothing, and I need to use this to get my stuff done, I'm so frustrated and YOU DON'T CARE." The "and YOU DON'T CARE!" gets thrown onto every complaint and frustration she has, no matter who or what, if anything, is the cause. 

She constantly creates situations where, no matter my action (or lack thereof), I'm instantly rebuked with her interpretation of my motives, which are, of course, always very, very bad. I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't, and I'm damned because I didn't know what to do, and I didn't know what to do because "you don't care".

I'm starting a thread on this. This is the most frustrating, impossible situation I have ever found myself in.


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## Therealbrighteyes

PolkaDottedJams said:


> I'm guessing the now-banned BEB was roughly 350 lbs when she wrote this? Pardon me, but looks DO matter! They are not--and _should _not be--at the top of the list, but they _*are *_on the list . . . and at some point can become a deal breaker. This is the basic mindset of people that are fit and trim and who refuse to pack on extra weight for reasons of appearance, health, social advancement, and psychological/spiritual well-being, like it or not. This is not shallow; this is _normal _. . . and fairly reasonable, if you ask me.
> 
> Besides, true love does not make a glutton of itself and then ask someone else to co-revel in its gluttony and enable/endorse its poor sense of self.


Others have asked so I'll say more bluntly, why are you here digging up the graves of 2+ year old threads instead of hitting the gym. Looks matter and despite your fat self and wife, complaining about it won't help. Notice I said you are fat too because out of the thousands of people I have met, never have a met a fit spouse with a fat spouse. NOT ONCE. Oh you might be thin but smoke/drink/not exercise/wheez your way to a city block while your wife is fat but no, you aren't fit. Thin can have a BMI of over 30%. I don't mean to pick on you, it's just a grand fable. I've heard it here plenty of times. Mr. Universe who "works out 6 times a week/3 hours a day, carbo loading for the next meet", who has a wife who is 400 lbs.............just doesn't happen. It's a tall tale. Go hit the gym and get a BMI worth bragging over and then your wife might join you. ;-).


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## lostsoul25

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Others have asked so I'll say more bluntly, why are you here digging up the graves of 2+ year old threads instead of hitting the gym. Looks matter and despite your fat self and wife, complaining about it won't help. Notice I said you are fat too because out of the thousands of people I have met, never have a met a fit spouse with a fat spouse. NOT ONCE. Oh you might be thin but smoke/drink/not exercise/wheez your way to a city block while your wife is fat but no, you aren't fit. Thin can have a BMI of over 30%. I don't mean to pick on you, it's just a grand fable. I've heard it here plenty of times. Mr. Universe who "works out 6 times a week/3 hours a day, carbo loading for the next meet", who has a wife who is 400 lbs.............just doesn't happen. It's a tall tale. Go hit the gym and get a BMI worth bragging over and then your wife might join you. ;-).


I have to say this is 100% not true, I am extremely healthy, 90% of my diet is fruits and veggies, I eat meat and dairy only once a week, I eat sweets extremely rarely only if it is raw dark chocolate, fried foots, white pasta, rice, anything like that I cant put it in my mouth, my husband was 270 pounds when I decided to start dating him, i wanted to genuinly help him, I asked him what he ate, the amount that he said was not that much in my opinion to how horrible his health was so all along he was lying, i became obsessed with his weight and the more I tried the less he was appreciative and the more he lied to me, he still managed to lose 50 pounds but he was never grateful, he used it to go out without me, trying to impress other girls and act like a douche bag, for that and other reasons I stopped giving a ****, he gained it all back, he even blamed him not caring about his weight on me, the f!cking nerve, I told him you were a disguisting fat pig when I lost my virginity to you so shut the f!ck up. anyhow this turned into a vent but in all seriousness this is a case where one person is a health nut and the other is 100% opposite, I also have never smoked, started drinking very rarely once I started dating my husband, never been a drinker though and I only like a glass of wine with some side dish once in a while


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