# Should an ex stepfather have to pay child support?



## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

I am in the process of being divorced by my 2nd husband, who has gotten back together with his ex-wife who he tells me he wishes he had never left to begin with. We were together for 7 years. I brought my 3 year old son into our marriage,he is now 10 and my STBX is the only father he has ever known. However my STBX never adopted him. He is now telling me that he is going to petition the court to not have to pay child support even though he is the only father my son has had and our only financial provider as I am disabled and haven't been able to work since 2016. However, I am not here to ask about this for financial or legal reasons. I am wondering about the ethics of me asking him for child support and him refusing to pay it. Is it wrong to ask a man who is not the biological father but who is the child's primary financial provider to pay support? He also has no interest in custody or even visitation which has really hurt my son and is breaking my heart because my son really misses him. I don't know how he can just walk away from the child he's been raising as his own for the last 7 years.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

2ndTimeDown said:


> I am in the process of being divorced by my 2nd husband, who has gotten back together with his ex-wife who he tells me he wishes he had never left to begin with. We were together for 7 years. I brought my 3 year old son into our marriage,he is now 10 and my STBX is the only father he has ever known. However my STBX never adopted him. He is now telling me that he is going to petition the court to not have to pay child support even though he is the only father my son has had and our only financial provider as I am disabled and haven't been able to work since 2016. However, I am not here to ask about this for financial or legal reasons. I am wondering about the ethics of me asking him for child support and him refusing to pay it. Is it wrong to ask a man who is not the biological father but who is the child's primary financial provider to pay support? He also has no interest in custody or even visitation which has really hurt my son and is breaking my heart because my son really misses him. I don't know how he can just walk away from the child he's been raising as his own for the last 7 years.


Hi!
I think he does not have to pay for your sons child support. He is not his biological father, and frankly, I wouldn't want any attachment to any man who leaves you to go back to his ex-wife, and alludes to this idea that he should never have been with you (as if you hold no value). Forget that, you're better than that...I wouldn't take a dime from him for your son. If you're really struggling, ask his biological father for support if possible.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

If I were in your husband's shoes and my exH had a child I had helped to raise since infancy I'd automatically act as if that child were mine and not only pay support but ask for visitation. Unfortunately, you can't force him to be your son's father. He has no legal obligation to him at all and that's what he's choosing to follow. I'd get your son into some therapy to help with this transition. I'd also find your son's biological father and tell him that it's time to pay up. If he can't be found you may need some government services to help you, welfare, food stamps, etc. Does your state allow for alimony? You may be entitled to that at least.

I'm sorry you're going through this. _hugs_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I have read that some US states require CS from stepparents.

Regarding the ethics of it all, it's very sad. Not too many people have memories before the age of 3. And particularly, if detected a warm relationship between your son and him, words can't express.

As far as "we never should have married" line, I hear it quite often. My sister said it of her first husband. My ex said it about our marriage. Whatever.....


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> I'd also find your son's biological father and tell him that it's time to pay up.


Did this STBX complain or make any kind of remarks about the fact that bio dad was not involved in your son's life.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

NextTimeAround said:


> Did this STBX complain or make any kind of remarks about the fact that bio dad was not involved in your son's life.


My first husband died suddenly and unexpectedly when my son was only 3 months old. He was only 27 and we had been married for 3 years. I do get his social security death benefits for my son but it's not much and my death benefits ended when I remarried.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

GC1234 said:


> Hi!
> I think he does not have to pay for your sons child support. He is not his biological father, and frankly, I wouldn't want any attachment to any man who leaves you to go back to his ex-wife, and alludes to this idea that he should never have been with you (as if you hold no value). Forget that, you're better than that...I wouldn't take a dime from him for your son. If you're really struggling, ask his biological father for support if possible.


His bio dad (my first husband) died when my son was only 3 months old.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> If I were in your husband's shoes and my exH had a child I had helped to raise since infancy I'd automatically act as if that child were mine and not only pay support but ask for visitation. Unfortunately, you can't force him to be your son's father. He has no legal obligation to him at all and that's what he's choosing to follow. I'd get your son into some therapy to help with this transition. I'd also find your son's biological father and tell him that it's time to pay up. If he can't be found you may need some government services to help you, welfare, food stamps, etc. Does your state allow for alimony? You may be entitled to that at least.
> 
> I'm sorry you're going through this. _hugs_


My first husband died when my son was 3 months old. My son does get survivor death benefits until he is 18.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Your soon to be ex is a sad excuse of a human. Put all his stuff on the curb and find a way to support you and your son. There are many jobs online now as well as training services available to help you get back into the workforce. Your Ex will need to pay you alimony so you need to pursue that. Local women's centers, other social services can provide legal advice for free or a reduced cost. 
Do you have family that can help?


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

NextTimeAround said:


> I have read that some US states require CS from stepparents.
> 
> Regarding the ethics of it all, it's very sad. Not too many people have memories before the age of 3. And particularly, if detected a warm relationship between your son and him, words can't express.
> 
> As far as "we never should have married" line, I hear it quite often. My sister said it of her first husband. My ex said it about our marriage. Whatever.....


Strangely enough he never said he should never have married me. He said he should never have left her to begin with because she was his "soul mate."


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

2ndTimeDown said:


> His bio dad (my first husband) died when my son was only 3 months old.


Oh, I'm so sorry about that. That's so sad! But, I would agree with the others on here, to get him therapy to work all of this out.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You weren't married long enough to qualify for alimony in many states (you may get temporary support, however). As for your son, IMO your soon to be ex should not be liable for child support since he is not the biological father and did not adopt him. How much does the survivor benefit pay? Is it comparable to what child support would be? Trying to extract child support seems like double-dipping.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I'm sorry to hear about your first husband. That's a tragic loss. I think the most you'll get is some type of short term support from your STBX and that might give you some time to figure out what you are going to do once that runs out. I agree with the comment above that it's time to look at all different types of employment opportunities. Maybe you could use that time to acquire a certificate or something to earn money at home. Medical coding is a good example of this.

I think it's also tragic that your STBX wants to just drop your son like a hot potato. It might be that he is in some fog about being back with his exwife and wants no ties to his current life. That will back up on him at some point. They got divorced for a reason and that reason will rear it's ugly head again. When he comes back saying you're the one he truly never should have left tell him to take a hike.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Dude sounds like a complete jerk. Unfortunately, unless your state has some crazy laws, a step parent can't be forced to pay child support. I would cut your losses and never contact him again. Count yourself lucky too.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

The child is not his, and when you split he has no responsibility. 

I am not sure why you do not understand that, or expect anything different????


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

Married but Happy said:


> You weren't married long enough to qualify for alimony in many states (you may get temporary support, however). As for your son, IMO your soon to be ex should not be liable for child support since he is not the biological father and did not adopt him. How much does the survivor benefit pay? Is it comparable to what child support would be? Trying to extract child support seems like double-dipping.


My first husband did not work long enough to have a lot of money in social security, he was only 27 when he died and he'd only been out of college 3 years. So the death benefit is only $300/month. I get $900/month disability. My STBX has a PhD, he's a full professor at a major private university, he has tenure and he makes damn good money. He also makes brings in quite a bit of extra income doing online symposiums. He never adopted my son by his own choice. I would happily have let him. I wonder now if he refused specifically because he didn't plan to stick around long term.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

BluesPower said:


> The child is not his, and when you split he has no responsibility.
> 
> I am not sure why you do not understand that, or expect anything different????


I do understand it. I'm asking about the ethics, not the legality. You would think a man would want to make sure the child he had raised as his own for the last 7 years would want to make sure that child would not end up in poverty when he left the child's mother. Especially since he always said how much he loved my son and was always glad I had a child from my previous marriage since he couldn't father children of his own.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

2ndTimeDown said:


> I do understand it. I'm asking about the ethics, not the legality. You would think a man would want to make sure the child he had raised as his own for the last 7 years would want to make sure that child would not end up in poverty when he left the child's mother. Especially since he always said how much he loved my son and was always glad I had a child from my previous marriage since he couldn't father children of his own.


Hate to say it, but he wants to go back to his old life and have zero memories of you. And I’m sure his ex wife or whatever you can call her wants him to also have no contact with you and your son. 
I’m going through a 2nd divorce now too. And although her kids have a father that provides for them, I can’t imagine not wanting to still have contact with them. I spent 6 years with them and they will always be a part of me


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

OP, if you don't mind answering, what state are you in?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@2ndTimeDown

The first thing you're going to want to do is to look up the laws in your state. State Divorce Laws - Divorce Source

Here is a good summary of each state's child support laws: Summaries of State Child Support Laws - FindLaw

Since we don't know where you live, we can't really give a specific answer, but in a very general way, it is usually the responsibility of the biological parents to provide for a child--not the step-parent and certainly not the step-parent after divorce is final. However, since the biological father is dead, I think you might have a case to claim Paternity by Estoppel Doctrine. There are 3 conditions that have to be met for the Estoppel Doctrine to apply: 1) Representation (did step-parent assume the role of parent and provide financial support), 2) Detriment (the step-parent acting as parent severs the biological parent from supporting the child), and 3) Reliance (child relies on the financial support of the step-parent). In essence, Paternity by Estoppel is when a step-parent "holds out" a child as if it were his/her own ... by spending time with the child, by the child calling the parent Father or Mother, by signing school permission slips as the child's father, by providing for the child, by promoting a relationship with the child... in other words, acting like the parent and saying they are the parent in the community! 

However, note to self: if you want to claim Paternity by Estoppel Doctrine, you'll probably need an attorney to do that, and since your STBX doesn't sound like a real prince, you may not see any child support money until a judge FORCES him to pay (if the judge so orders!). In other words, I think it sucks but it would probably be wisest of you to figure out how you are going to provide for yourself and your son ON YOUR OWN, because this is a long shot and even it if does happen it could be a year or more before it's ordered.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

2ndTimeDown said:


> I do understand it. I'm asking about the ethics, not the legality. You would think a man would want to make sure the child he had raised as his own for the last 7 years would want to make sure that child would not end up in poverty when he left the child's mother. Especially since he always said how much he loved my son and was always glad I had a child from my previous marriage since he couldn't father children of his own.


Then why should we expect fathers that have no relationship with their bio child be expected to pay child support?

Are you willing to share custody with the stepfather if he wanted it? My guess is no.

I think if the step father wants to remain in his life then it seems he should pay some amount to ensure the child's wellbeing. Otherwise, I don't think it makes sense legally or ethically.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your first husband. That's a tragic loss. I think the most you'll get is some type of short term support from your STBX and that might give you some time to figure out what you are going to do once that runs out. I agree with the comment above that it's time to look at all different types of employment opportunities. Maybe you could use that time to acquire a certificate or something to earn money at home. Medical coding is a good example of this.
> 
> I think it's also tragic that your STBX wants to just drop your son like a hot potato. It might be that he is in some fog about being back with his exwife and wants no ties to his current life. That will back up on him at some point. They got divorced for a reason and that reason will rear it's ugly head again. When he comes back saying you're the one he truly never should have left tell him to take a hike.


That's an interesting point. I've never met his ex, she was out of his life years before I met him (he's quite a bit older than me). He always told me they got married too young and it just didn't work out because they realized they wanted different things. They were only married for a few years and he admitted to me that it was his fault they split up - she matured, got a job, wanted to settle down and be an adult. He wanted to be an immature college student for as long as he could with her supporting him. Now they're both in their mid 40s with good stable jobs. So who knows? I know he was really unhappy with me after I became disabled and dependent on him as much as I have been these last few years.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

2ndTimeDown said:


> That's an interesting point. I've never met his ex, she was out of his life years before I met him (he's quite a bit older than me). He always told me they got married too young and it just didn't work out because they realized they wanted different things. They were only married for a few years and he admitted to me that it was his fault they split up - she matured, got a job, wanted to settle down and be an adult. He wanted to be an immature college student for as long as he could with her supporting him. Now they're both in their mid 40s with good stable jobs. So who knows? I know he was really unhappy with me after I became disabled and dependent on him as much as I have been these last few years.


What's the disability?


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Then why should we expect fathers that have no relationship with their bio child be expected to pay child support?
> 
> Are you willing to share custody with the stepfather if he wanted it? My guess is no.
> 
> I think if the step father wants to remain in his life then it seems he should pay some amount to ensure the child's wellbeing. Otherwise, I don't think it makes sense legally or ethically.


Actually I would be more than happy to share custody. I would be thrilled. My son is absolutely heartbroken that the man he knows as his father has basically abandoned him. I hate it for him. I have BEGGED my STBX-husband to remain a part of my son's life and he has outright refused. He seems to want no reminder whatsoever of the years we have spent together.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

2ndTimeDown said:


> Actually I would be more than happy to share custody. I would be thrilled. My son is absolutely heartbroken that the man he knows as his father has basically abandoned him. I hate it for him. I have BEGGED my STBX-husband to remain a part of my son's life and he has outright refused. He seems to want no reminder whatsoever of the years we have spent together.


This breaks my heart.!. Your son doesn't deserve this treatment, and neither do you.!.

I'm so sorry you both have to endure this abandonment.!.

I wish I could make things all better for the two of you.!.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

If you're asking regarding the ethics of it, I would say it's unethical. And if I was the guy in that situation, I would probably hate the woman who tried to get me to pay child support (whether it was successful or not) and I would cut everything from that relationship out from my life. 

But I feel like the REAL question you're asking is HOW and WHY can a man do this. 
Well, my dad did it to me. Granted, relationship was very different, I was significantly older, and...our relationship was strained. And it was also past the child-support age, so my mom won the con-game. 

As for why your STBX is doing it, could be any number of reasons. 
He never liked your child as much as you think he did (though I'd be surprised if he faked it for 7 years) 
The marriage was bad to him for whatever reasons, and he wants to cut loose everything. You, kid, everything. 
His wife told him to, or said she wouldn't accept another kid into their new marriage or relationship. 
Maybe you live in a state (or country) that is very aggressive when it comes to collecting child support, so he taking this very cold approach to distance himself in-case that comes up. 
Maybe his wife is guiltting him after he spent however many years and however much money on your son instead of his biological kids. 

Without more facts, I'm pretty much grasping at straws for reasons why.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What's the disability?


I am legally blind and have rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and damage from a severe heart attack caused by the lupus 4 years ago. I also have issues with short term memory. I have a home health aide who comes in every day and honestly I don't know what I would do without her.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

Broken at 20 said:


> If you're asking regarding the ethics of it, I would say it's unethical. And if I was the guy in that situation, I would probably hate the woman who tried to get me to pay child support (whether it was successful or not) and I would cut everything from that relationship out from my life.
> 
> But I feel like the REAL question you're asking is HOW and WHY can a man do this.
> Well, my dad did it to me. Granted, relationship was very different, I was significantly older, and...our relationship was strained. And it was also past the child-support age, so my mom won the con-game.
> ...


I am guessing his first wife may be part of it, but since I've never met her I honestly don't know her well enough to say. They didn't have kids together, though. He's sterile and as far as he knows he always has been. She never remarried after him and has no kids either. Maybe they just want to be alone to make up for the time together he seems to think they missed out on all these years. I'll probably never know since he won't even speak to me anymore.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Maybe he initially felt he wanted to be a parent — his idea of one anyway — but then discovered he didn’t. Unfortunately, your son will pay the price for that. Many people do what benefits them and they don’t care who gets burned in the process.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

2ndTimeDown said:


> Actually I would be more than happy to share custody. I would be thrilled. My son is absolutely heartbroken that the man he knows as his father has basically abandoned him. I hate it for him. I have BEGGED my STBX-husband to remain a part of my son's life and he has outright refused. He seems to want no reminder whatsoever of the years we have spent together.


If STBX is that big of a jerk to not care about your son, then in reality you do NOT WANT HIM around your son. He doesn't need the example of an awful person as a male role model.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. It is unfathomable to me how he can just turn his back on a boy he spent that many years with who regards him as a father. Not so much the money I guess but just how someone can be so cold-blooded that they don't still want to see a child they helped raise. 

I guess everything will depend on the laws in your state so you ought to start googling and see if you can find anything specifically about it. I realize you probably don't have much money to hire an attorney but to get this done you would probably have to. I know judges do take into account who has been raising the child because the first priority is the child's welfare and well-being. There is such a thing as common law marriage so I don't see why there couldn't be a similar thing to make people be held accountable for children who depended on them. But that said I can't think of an instance where I've seen that happen. Start looking into the laws in your state and if you have to get an attorney at least do a consultation with a family law attorney and just ask that basic question to see if there's even any point in trying to take it any further. 

It's likely his ex-wife who would resent him spending any money on the boy. If you are disabled and I'm assuming you are entitled to a certain amount of disability and on top of that welfare for the child and it might amount to more than whatever the court might make him contribute. so you need to look into all that as well and find out if you qualify for disability benefits.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Basically you are asking if your stbxh is a ****? Yes he is! Ethically he should contribute as he chose to join a family and has now chosen to leave it. There is a lot of personal satisfaction and enjoyment to be had in being a dad - he got a chance to be this and now has chosen to just let it go because it suits him.

As others are saying he probably does not have a legal obligation although I would investigate this with lawyers. He chose to be part of a family and all that it entails and then he chose to just drop that family like a hot potato. There must be some legal recourse to him paying for this.

So easy answer to your question - ethically he is in the wrong and there just might be a way to make him pay.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> So easy answer to your question - *ethically he is in the wrong* *and there just might be a way to make him pay.*


So are you saying he should pay child support to punish him for stepping away from the relationship? 

Also, from a quick google search, I don't think there will be much success here. He has cut off the child from all support so he is no longer acting like a father figure, and he never adopted the child. Courts are pretty clear that he would owe no child support. Unless OP lives in some state that goes crazy with collecting child support. 

And ethically speaking, I would argue he is not in the wrong or the right. He is just doing what HE wants to do. And it sounds like he doesn't want to play step-dad anymore. He is walking away from the marriage, and the child. 

Now, MORALLY, is another argument. 
We could argue he has an moral obligation to stay in this child's life, who he has known (and presumably) helped raised for the last 7 (?) years. That he knew what he was getting into when he married OP, and that this was going to be his life. 
But it looks like he kept the situation very clear. He never adopted the child, so while he may have helped raising the child, maybe he felt more like an uncle, than a father. So now he wants to leave this part of his life behind and go back to his XW. So, you could argue that morally, maybe he never misled the child. Yes, he did marry OP and could be called step-father. 

But, at the end of the day, this man is not biologically created to the child. He did not create the child. If he wants to leave the child's life, and never talk to him again, that's his choice. 
And sure, I'll say that's probably not a great thing to do, and I would pre-judge him to be kind of a jerk. But I don't know all the details, so I won't say he is a terrible human being. 

But he should have the right to do this. 
Not saying this is right. But he can do it,


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

2ndTimeDown said:


> Actually I would be more than happy to share custody. I would be thrilled. My son is absolutely heartbroken that the man he knows as his father has basically abandoned him. I hate it for him. I have BEGGED my STBX-husband to remain a part of my son's life and he has outright refused. He seems to want no reminder whatsoever of the years we have spent together.


Separating the ethicality from the legality when it involves money is not easy since ethics doesn't involve money. I would think he should have some moral obligation to care for the kid he has brought up as his son, but once you get into money, it becomes a clear legal call. And I honestly don't think so. He was married to you, the contract was between him and you. Once the marriage dissolves the property you came into the marriage goes back to the original owner (less the contributions made during marriage). Since he helped out financially with the child during his marriage, it seems his committment ends there and goes back to you. If not, he could have some entitlement to the child like custody which would be a nightmare for anyone that remarries with children.

But morally, I think he would want to see to the childs well being, but that would be voluntary support.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I thin he feels as though he did not sign up to be the sole financial and caring person in your marriage. So looking forward to his fate, he found that all he wanted was out.

So he escaped to another woman, has the capacity to abandon you and your kid.

I'm positive that he never was attached to the boy as much as you believe him to be.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Are you able to get back your spousal benefits after your deceased husband since you are now divorced? 
You married him and lost your benefits. Now he is divorcing you and you ate left with hardly any income.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

notmyjamie said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your first husband. That's a tragic loss. I think the most you'll get is some type of short term support from your STBX and that might give you some time to figure out what you are going to do once that runs out. I agree with the comment above that it's time to look at all different types of employment opportunities. Maybe you could use that time to acquire a certificate or something to earn money at home. Medical coding is a good example of this.
> 
> I think it's also tragic that your STBX wants to just drop your son like a hot potato. It might be that he is in some fog about being back with his exwife and wants no ties to his current life. That will back up on him at some point. They got divorced for a reason and that reason will rear it's ugly head again. When he comes back saying you're the one he truly never should have left tell him to take a hike.


It could be that his ex wife has said she doesnt want him to have any ties to her or the boy. Poor child he has lost two fathers now.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Or he is just a prick who doesn’t want any baggage. Had two marriages, decides he like child free option better and went back there.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

blahfridge said:


> OP, if you don't mind answering, what state are you in?


I am currently in Massachusetts, not far outside of Boston which is where my STBXH works. However I am an Irish citizen. I came here for college, met my first husband, got married, and never went back. I seriously considered it after he died but I had a good job by that point that I didn't want to leave. I have dual citizenship and so does my son through me. Since my STBXH is obviously not interested in remaining in my son's life, I fully expect that once my divorce is final and the Covid lockdown ends, we will move back to Ireland and probably stay with my parents.


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## Imagirl (Aug 17, 2020)

Prayers that you'll find your way, I have no doubt you will. Your son does not deserve this but I'm telling you, if a man (or woman) can walk away from a child they raised you and any kids involved are better off without them. Apply for food stamps, reach out to local churches, accept help until you can sort it all out. Sending hugs ♥


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## Oldtimer (May 25, 2018)

As a man, I find this appalling. I’m in a marriage now with a blended family of 8 kids. When I first married, my then wife brought two boys into the marriage. When my first wife decided to go find herself, she left the two boys she originally had. They were asked by me if they wanted to be with their mother. The answer “ no DAD, we want to stay with you.

My sons are now grown and on their own. Had they gone with their mother who knows where they would be now. I know the feeling of abandonment is screwing with their heads at times, but as the man I am, I’ve been the force behind them.

Your ex may not have a legal financial obligation to your son, but wow!
i would also imagine that when you we’re together your child was Introduced as his son. I feel bad for you.
wishing you well.

OT

btw, all 8 refer to themselves as my kids and I reciprocate those feelings.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

us telling you what is the right thing to do is worthless advice

you need legal advice from an attorney


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> So are you saying he should pay child support to punish him for stepping away from the relationship?
> 
> Also, from a quick google search, I don't think there will be much success here. He has cut off the child from all support so he is no longer acting like a father figure, and he never adopted the child. Courts are pretty clear that he would owe no child support. Unless OP lives in some state that goes crazy with collecting child support.
> 
> ...


Whether you run with the Greek "ethics" vs the Roman "morals" is really pedantic - ethics is the understanding (individually) of what is right and wrong and morals are more to do with the general ethos or public acceptance - its wrong in both cases.

Yes I understand that he is walking away from the family he chose to be part of (you could argue this is similar to alimony when one walks away from a marriage). Whether he "really" liked the kids or not, wanted to be viewed as an uncle or a grandpappy, he chose to be part of this family by marrying their mother and be involved in their lives - walking away because he suddenly decides he doesn't want to be is ethically, morally and socially wrong! 

I was lucky enough to go to an old established all-boys Catholic school that claimed to be "makers of men" - they were not perfect but they did instil a moral code in us to do with not only doing things right, but mainly doing the right things. I do not believe that he is doing the right thing here. Hence me calling him a ****!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

IMO, your STBXH has no legal or moral obligation to support your child. Not only is he not biologically the father, he also chose not to adopt the boy during the (short) marriage when the birth father is deceased and adoption would more or less have been a rubber stamp process. He acted as step-father in the context of his marriage to you. Now the marriage is ending, so that context no longer exists. He has never had any legal rights or obligations to your child. Whatever personal and financial assistance he gave was purely voluntary and he's no longer a volunteer.

It is sad and tragic your first husband and father of your child is deceased. However, you are already receiving $300 per month in death benefits that are intended to act as child support for the children of deceased parents. Asking your ex to also pay would be, as someone else stated, double dipping.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> IMO, your STBXH has no legal or moral obligation to support your child. Not only is he not biologically the father, he also chose not to adopt the boy during the (short) marriage when the birth father is deceased and adoption would more or less have been a rubber stamp process. He acted as step-father in the context of his marriage to you. Now the marriage is ending, so that context no longer exists. He has never had any legal rights or obligations to your child. Whatever personal and financial assistance he gave was purely voluntary and he's no longer a volunteer.
> 
> It is sad and tragic your first husband and father of your child is deceased. However, you are already receiving $300 per month in death benefits that are intended to act as child support for the children of deceased parents. Asking your ex to also pay would be, as someone else stated, double dipping.


I agree. Did you make clear to him when you married him that you expected him to support your son financially even if the marriage ended? If he'd known that he may not have married you....his decision not to adopt your son is basically him refusing to commit to being financially responsible for him.

Stepparents are not responsible for their stepkids once the marriage ends. If they were single parents would have a much harder time remarrying.

Are you getting maximum disability? Can you not work at all? 

Do you have any family that can help?

I do think its unfortunate that he doesn't at least want to spend some with your son but you can't force that. Even bio parents sometimes skip out of their kids.

As for asking you can ask for anything you want, but it's unlikely he will agree and a court will likely not force it.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I see that the issue of precedent has come up. if one stepfather is ethically responsible for the financial and emotional support of step children, then it follows that all step parents are. 
Now I come from an adopting family that came from a fostering family. Looking at my father, and my grandfather, I have a series of fine examples. The fosterlings and step children were never treated as lesser than the children of the first marriage. Grandfather could not have afforded to pay child support for foster children that were returned to the state (I don't know the circumstances) but had one showed up on the doorstep, they would have been welcomed home like the prodigal son. My grandmother died when the oldest grandchild was 12 So there were step children in following marriages. There was little left when he died but every child and grandchild was offered an equal choice by his decree. Mine is a painting. 
So to return to precedent. Regardless of the fine examples i have had and known, supporting the idea that a general, applies to all, ethic that any man who served as a father (or father figure) to any child id ethically responsible for that child's support is at least impractical.
In this specific case, There is a man who is making a serious mistake (returning to a ex who was divorced for a good reason). He is compounding that mistake by abandoning a child that needs support (more emotional than financial IMHO). My prediction is that he will regret both of those decisions much sooner than 7 years.
One other thing. I know, I'm rambling. But in the United States, there is a common legal theory that every child deserves the financial support of one man. It really doesn't matter to the average judge who that man is. We haven't quite got to the point of assigning support by lottery, but in some jurisdictions it is very close. This seems a bit off to me, ethically. Especially in a Nanny State, where the government is the only entity trusted to make care decisions. Assigning the support of a child based on nothing more than the unsupported claim of one person seems capricious. 
Children have needs of financial and emotional support. Quite often the people providing that support are not very good at it. If the needs of the child are preemptive, then this particular step dad is not the ideal provider.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> IMO, your STBXH has no legal or moral obligation to support your child. Not only is he not biologically the father, he also chose not to adopt the boy during the (short) marriage when the birth father is deceased and adoption would more or less have been a rubber stamp process. He acted as step-father in the context of his marriage to you. Now the marriage is ending, so that context no longer exists. He has never had any legal rights or obligations to your child. Whatever personal and financial assistance he gave was purely voluntary and he's no longer a volunteer.
> 
> It is sad and tragic your first husband and father of your child is deceased. However, you are already receiving $300 per month in death benefits that are intended to act as child support for the children of deceased parents. Asking your ex to also pay would be, as someone else stated, double dipping.


As much as I agree with the rest if your post, you must be kidding about double dipping part, right? $300 a month is nothing.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> As much as I agree with the rest if your post, you must be kidding about double dipping part, right? $300 a month is nothing.


I agree with MJ. The amount of what she is getting has no bearing. It’s not asshat’s fault that the bio dad has passed. We all know it’s not enough but it’s up to her to come up with alternate means of support. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Also...I have 2 bio dads that paid little to no ordered support. One owes me over 180k to this day. 

I had to find another way. She does too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I understand that he can get away with this legally - but I do question the "morally" part of some of the comments being made. Unless he got into a marriage contract for company and sex but nothing else, you do not marry a mother of young kids and expect to have that "baggage" kept separate from the contract. Why get married ? Why not just pay her for sex ? Seems kind of "douchebaggy" (another one for Oxford and Webster).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your plan to go back home to Ireland and your family as soon as you can is a good idea.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

WandaJ said:


> As much as I agree with the rest if your post, you must be kidding about double dipping part, right? $300 a month is nothing.


The point wasn't the amount. The point was that she mentioned she is already receiving child support for the child in the form of $300 per month in death benefits paid by the government. Receiving child support for the same child from two sources would, indeed, be double dipping. 

But, since we're already talking amount, the average child support payment is $430 a month in the US. As an average, that means some receive more and some receive less. OP's already not far off from the average. And yet she is thinking about asking for more money from someone who is in no way related or obligated to her child.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> I understand that he can get away with this legally - but I do question the "morally" part of some of the comments being made. Unless he got into a marriage contract for company and sex but nothing else, you do not marry a mother of young kids and expect to have that "baggage" kept separate from the contract. Why get married ? Why not just pay her for sex ? Seems kind of "douchebaggy" (another one for Oxford and Webster).


In the US, at least, step parents have no legal rights to step children. Should the marriage end, whether or not the step parent stays in the life of the children is up to the biological parent(s) and those decisions are subject to change on a whim.

Not to mention people get their panties in a twist when it comes to step parents actually parenting. It's generally seen as crossing a line for a step parent to, say, discipline a step child.

And, of course, 2nd marriages have a higher failure rate statistically.

Being a step parent is a strange thing. You are expected to invest in the rearing of a child, be a guiding force and adult role model, yet you must do so within the bounds established by the bio parent(s) knowing that you could be removed from the child's life permanently at any time and for any reason through fault or no fault of your own.

For example, let's say a mother meets her 2nd husband and he acts as father to her children. 5 years later, they divorce. She swears she will never keep the kids from seeing him. He gives financial assistance and hangs out with the kids on weekends. It's great for a couple years until the mother meets husband #3, who does not want #2 hanging around. At that point, #2 is given his walking papers, is heartbroken, and is out who knows how much money with no legal recourse.

So, yes, a lot of people marry someone with kids and maintain more of an Uncle-Niece/Nephew relationship than a parent-child relationship because, at the end of the day, they aren't the child's parent and they are aware of that reality.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

Openminded said:


> Your plan to go back home to Ireland and your family as soon as you can is a good idea.


Except that despite the national healthcare system, healthcare sucks in Ireland, and I have serious medical issues. I hate the thought of losing my medical team, my cardiologist literally saved my life. Also, my family in Ireland is what Americans would call "dirt poor." My parents are retired and have a small subsistence farm that barely supports the 2 of them. They don't even have broadband internet where they live. My sister already has 4 kids in a small house. There's no way I can move in with her. The only real reason to go back home is that I'm lonely. And if I go back, my in-laws from my first marriage will lose access to my son, who is their only grandchild, and they adore him, he's all they have left of my first husband who was their only child. They live in senior housing and don't get out much anymore (my father in law has lung cancer and my mother in law has dementia), and my son and I are literally the only visitors they EVER have. My son is very close to them, and he's only ever spent one summer with my parents when I was between husbands. He doesn't even remember them. So I have a lot to think about before I make a decision.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

@2ndTimeDown, it sounds like you and your son would be happier, better off, staying where you are. I would take your time in making any major decision. You may not be able to get much alimony, but you should be entitled to some share in joint assets, such as the house, that can tide you over until you find a job that you can do from home. 
Have you spoken to a lawyer yet?


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## I.T. Guy (Oct 7, 2012)

2ndTimeDown said:


> <snip>
> I don't know how he can just walk away from the child he's been raising as his own for the last 7 years.


Because it isn't his child.

Women do this all the time to stepfathers. They divorce him, and they want to keep in contact with the kids they THINK of as theirs, but they get no access.

Women will do this frequently to the ACTUAL fathers.

If he doesn't pay a dime, will you still want him to see the child. Forever? Or is his access conditional upon you getting the cash from him?


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

When you were married, the law stated that he would not be responsible for child support. You both knew what you were getting into. You can't go back now and expect something different.

Imagine if a step parent was made responsible for supporting a child after divorce. How would a single mother find anyone to marry? What man would be stupid enough to marry a woman with children, knowing that he would be responsible for paying for the child if they got divorced?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ndTimeDown said:


> My first husband died suddenly and unexpectedly when my son was only 3 months old. He was only 27 and we had been married for 3 years. I do get his social security death benefits for my son but it's not much and my death benefits ended when I remarried.


Once you are divorced, you can haver your death benefits reinstated.


SSDI for Widows Widowers and Divorced Spouses



*"What happens if you remarry?*​_Generally, a widow(er) or surviving divorced spouse must be unmarried to qualify for DWB. However, if the subsequent marriage ends (by death or divorce), eligibility can be reinstated."_​
Is your husband still living with you? Is he still supporting you and your son?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ndTimeDown said:


> I do understand it. I'm asking about the ethics, not the legality. You would think a man would want to make sure the child he had raised as his own for the last 7 years would want to make sure that child would not end up in poverty when he left the child's mother. Especially since he always said how much he loved my son and was always glad I had a child from my previous marriage since he couldn't father children of his own.


I agree with you that a guy who raised a child for 7 years should, in most cases, want to continue his relationship with the child and even pay some child support in a situation like yours. But some people are wired differently and never really form that bond with child(ren). 

I have heard of some states that will require a step father to pay child support? Is it ethical? Well, if you look at it from the standpoint of what's bets for the child, it could easily be considered ethical. But your son receives SS death benefits. So essentially his father is already supporting him.

You can get your SS death benefits reinstated. You might qualify for EBT, Medicaid or Medicare, etc. 

And as someone else suggested, there are job training programs that might be able to help you find a job that you can work at. One of my sisters used to work for a program that helped disabled people get jobs. She worked with her clients on on one. She even went to their job for as long as it took (days, weeks) to help train them and make sure that the job worked out.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ndTimeDown said:


> I am legally blind and have rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and damage from a severe heart attack caused by the lupus 4 years ago. I also have issues with short term memory. I have a home health aide who comes in every day and honestly I don't know what I would do without her.


Did you become blind 4 years ago, or do the blindness pre-date your more recent health issues?

It's sad, but a lot of people cannot handle it when their spouse becomes disabled. 

Do you have any family near you that can help? Is your deceased husband's family involved with your son at all?


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

blahfridge said:


> @2ndTimeDown, it sounds like you and your son would be happier, better off, staying where you are. I would take your time in making any major decision. You may not be able to get much alimony, but you should be entitled to some share in joint assets, such as the house, that can tide you over until you find a job that you can do from home.
> Have you spoken to a lawyer yet?


I've been using free legal aid through Harvard Law School. My STBX kicked us out several weeks before the lockdowns started. Unfortunately due to Covid most of the courts are still closed down or at the very least seriously backlogged. As far as joint assets, there weren't any. I don't drive so no car, and we rent a condo that was in his name so he made us move out. My son and I are currently living in low income housing for battered women and displaced homemakers. He refuses to give me anything until the courts force the issue. He wouldn't let me take anything I didn't bring into the marriage with me. If he bought it, he kept it - even our clothes and my son's games and toys. I don't even have a computer anymore, just an older model iPhone and a dying Kindle. However, he did tell me that if I chose to go back to Ireland and get out of his life completely and never contact him again, he would give me a $10,000 settlement up front that would cover the cost of airfare and getting settled over there. But he said I would have to waive any rights to get anything more than that from him in the divorce. He even asked me to sign off on giving up his employer based health insurance and removing myself as beneficiary on his life insurance so he can put HER on it instead before he remarries her. Which legally he can't remove me from either as long as I am still his wife.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

I.T. Guy said:


> Because it isn't his child.
> 
> Women do this all the time to stepfathers. They divorce him, and they want to keep in contact with the kids they THINK of as theirs, but they get no access.
> 
> ...


Yes, I would still want him to see my son, because my son is hurting badly and what is best for him is the ONLY thing that matters to me. I would want him to be a part of my son's life permanently for my son's sake! My son loves him, he's the only father he's ever known, and he's absolutely heartbroken that daddy doesn't want him anymore. It's just about killing me.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Once you are divorced, you can haver your death benefits reinstated.
> 
> 
> SSDI for Widows Widowers and Divorced Spouses
> ...


No. He kicked us out several weeks before the Covid lockdowns started. We are living in housing for battered women and displaced homemakers. He is giving us NOTHING. He wouldn't even let us take our stuff with us except for the items I owned before our marriage.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Did you become blind 4 years ago, or do the blindness pre-date your more recent health issues?
> 
> It's sad, but a lot of people cannot handle it when their spouse becomes disabled.
> 
> Do you have any family near you that can help? Is your deceased husband's family involved with your son at all?


I have had a degenerative vision issue called retinitis pigmentosa since childhood and it has gotten worse as I've aged. I will most likely be completely blind before I am 50. Right now I have no peripheral vision and poor depth perception, and I am night blind.
My family is ALL in Ireland - my parents and my sister. My in laws from my first marriage live in a residential care center. My father in law has lung cancer and my mother in law has Alzheimer's. So they can't help me. They've already told me they wish they could but their medical care expenses are so high they have nothing left. They've already completely blown through their retirement and even had to sell their home which they had planned to leave to me. My first husband was an only child so there is no other family. My father in law's siblings are all deceased and my mother in law has been estranged from her family since she was only a teen.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The law mostly has little interest in the _big_ picture of ethics, and morality, only in the _fine_ print of written law.

While, it may be in the Holy Book, it matters not if it is not in an accepted case-law book.

I am so sorry for your terrible predicament.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Also...*I have 2 bio dads *that paid little to no ordered support. One owes me over 180k to this day.
> 
> I had to find another way. She does too.
> 
> ...


You mean one bio dad, and one legally obliged (adoptive) dad?
Right?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

michzz said:


> I thin he feels as though he did not sign up to be the sole financial and caring person in your marriage. So looking forward to his fate, he found that all he wanted was out.
> 
> So he escaped to another woman, has the capacity to abandon you and your kid.
> 
> I'm positive that he never was attached to the boy as much as you believe him to be.


I agree with this. My ex was in my kids lives for 13 years.....starting when they were 2 and 5. He'd tell you how much he loves them but the reality is he never bonded with them.

Our divorce was final during my older son's senior year and he didn't even acknowledge his graduation. No card, no text, no nothing.

That's how much he cared. He put up with them while with me but didn't care for them all that much.

I think that's what is going on here.

Fortunately in my case I make plenty of money and my kids have their father. They could care less about the ex and never bring him up.

OP, how long did you guys date before marriage? How did you meet? You mentioned that he is quite a bit older....did you marry him for financial support? Were you working when you married?

I'm trying to get a feel for the circumstances of your marriage and what kind of relationship you guys had. It has a business feel to it as it sounds like he pretty much kept all finances separate. Did you discuss finances before you got married? It seems weird that he didn't even have your name on a condo you rented together.

This is a guy who married you but didn't trust you and didn't want any financial obligations to you. In fact, one possible reason for him walking when he did was that the longer he supported you the more alimony he'd owe you, and it appears you're pretty much going to need lifelong support.

Is there absolutely nothing you can do for work?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> You mean one bio dad, and one legally obliged (adoptive) dad?
> Right?


I believe she means she has two ex-husbands who fathered children with her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> It could be that his ex wife has said she doesnt want him to have any ties to her or the boy. Poor child he has lost two fathers now.


Yes, his ex and now current might be pressuring him to not have anything to do with her son. However, 100% of the responsibility for having nothing further to do with his stepson is squarely on the shoulders of this man.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ndTimeDown,

Since you are still married, you can petition the court of get interim spousal support (or alimony) until the divorce if final. Also, become you have very little income, you can petition the court to order him to pay your legal fees for the divorce.

Maine is an equitable distribution state which means that the court does not just split assets and debt 50/50, they split them in what is called an 'equitable' fashion. This means that due to your health issues, you could end up with more than half of any assets .. such as any thing in bank accounts, savings, and even perhaps retirement accounts. My understanding is that in equitable distribution states the court can even dip into the sole property such as inheritance of the spouse who as more assets and/or higher income. I'm not suggesting that the courts should take him to the cleaners, however, it's beyond horrible that he threw you and your son out and would not even let you both take your personal belongings. You can get all of those through the courts too.. and if he no longer has them the value of them so you can replace them.

Your husband offering you $10,000 is a clear indicator that he knows that he can be hit pretty hard in a divorce. He's trying to get you to settle to save himself. The man sounds like a lousy piece of work.

You need to find a lawyer that will fight for you and your son. Many lawyers will give a free 30 - 60 minute consultation in hopes that you hire them. Interview a few of them and see if you can find one that will take your case with the understanding that they will petition the court to have him pay your legal fees. Some women's shelters have pro bono attorneys who will do this as well.

Here's some info about divorce law in your state:








Maine Marital Property Laws - FindLaw


Chart providing details of Maine Marital Property Laws




statelaws.findlaw.com


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Is there absolutely nothing you can do for work?


*The American Foundation for the Blind*, has a website that is helpful and has some employment links. 





__





Home


Since 1921, The American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) has been a leader in expanding possibilities for the millions of Americans living with vision loss.




www.afb.org






I also cite below a trade school website that talks about this.

Do your homework, do not sign up for training that might end-up being costly and worthless.









Here Are 15 Great Jobs for the Visually Impaired


You may be surprised at all of these good career possibilities for blind people.



www.trade-schools.net


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You have no one where you are now except for your son’s elderly paternal grandparents who are in a care home? Who would there be to help you with your son if you needed it? Would your current disability payments end if you returned to Ireland where your family is and, if so, could you get disability payments there?


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

2ndTimeDown said:


> I've been using free legal aid through Harvard Law School. My STBX kicked us out several weeks before the lockdowns started. Unfortunately due to Covid most of the courts are still closed down or at the very least seriously backlogged. As far as joint assets, there weren't any. I don't drive so no car, and we rent a condo that was in his name so he made us move out. My son and I are currently living in low income housing for battered women and displaced homemakers. He refuses to give me anything until the courts force the issue. He wouldn't let me take anything I didn't bring into the marriage with me. If he bought it, he kept it - even our clothes and my son's games and toys. I don't even have a computer anymore, just an older model iPhone and a dying Kindle. However, he did tell me that if I chose to go back to Ireland and get out of his life completely and never contact him again, he would give me a $10,000 settlement up front that would cover the cost of airfare and getting settled over there. But he said I would have to waive any rights to get anything more than that from him in the divorce. He even asked me to sign off on giving up his employer based health insurance and removing myself as beneficiary on his life insurance so he can put HER on it instead before he remarries her. Which legally he can't remove me from either as long as I am still his wife.


His behavior is beyond appalling. As @EleGirl just wrote, do not take his settlement. His refusal to allow you to take anything and the pittance he is offering you are designed to put the squeeze on you so you'll disappear from his life completely and at the least cost to him. Print out what EleGirl wrote and take it to whoever is helping you at Harvard. Your H is a snake to treat you and your son this way, you need to get everything you can from him.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree with this. My ex was in my kids lives for 13 years.....starting when they were 2 and 5. He'd tell you how much he loves them but the reality is he never bonded with them.
> 
> Our divorce was final during my older son's senior year and he didn't even acknowledge his graduation. No card, no text, no nothing.
> 
> ...


We met while I was in college doing graduate work, he was working on his PhD at the time and was a senior grad assistant to one of my professors while I was a junior grad assistant. He was assigned to me as my mentor. We dated for about a year. Neither one of us was earning any significant income at the time other than a small stipend from the college. I definitely didn't marry him for money, I was actually making more money than he was when I became disabled because he was a college professor and I was a server admin at a fairly large financial institution in Boston. We had some savings put aside but it was pretty much blown through on medical costs not covered by insurance, such as the live-in home nursing care I needed 24/7 for over 6 months. And I actually think he wasn't so much upset that he had to support me, as he was that I was no longer working so we could no longer afford the fancy lifestyle we had become accustomed to. It was several years later before he got full tenure and the much higher salary that goes with it. The condo was in his name because he was already living there before we got married, with several roommates to share the rent with.
Right at the moment there is no way I can work. We are living in what is basically a shelter with small individual units for women with children. No computer, just a phone and a really old Kindle. Barely even any furniture. Fortunately for me the building provides free wi-fi. I can't drive due to my vision issues. There are days when I literally am so weak and tired I can't even get out of bed. If we move back to Ireland, more than likely I will end up doing what we call going "on the dole," which is their equivalent of welfare. If I stay here, I'll end up doing the same. I'd rather do it with my family nearby if I need them. I just feel bad about the idea of deserting my in laws and losing the absolutely fantastic cardiologist who saved my life and has been my primary doctor ever since.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> 2ndTimeDown,
> 
> Since you are still married, you can petition the court of get interim spousal support (or alimony) until the divorce if final. Also, become you have very little income, you can petition the court to order him to pay your legal fees for the divorce.
> 
> ...


Massachusetts not Maine. I already have a lawyer through Harvard Law School's free legal aid program. They've been very good so far but thanks to Covid everything is kind of on hold right now because they closed down for several months. Hopefully we'll be able to get things going again soon.
I'm not sure how much I can get from him if I fight him on the finances. He makes good money for someone in his position, but it's not much compared to what he could make in the business world. I think his salary was around $80,000 last year. He doesn't own property, and he drives a 10 year old Ford Explorer. Most of his money is in investments and his 401k but I don't know what the numbers are. I know at some point my legal assistant will have to do financial discovery but it hasn't happened yet.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> *The American Foundation for the Blind*, has a website that is helpful and has some employment links.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My vision is not the reason I can't work. I have multiple health conditions that keep me so exhausted there is no way I can work outside the home. There are days I can't even get out of bed. And because we are currently living in what is basically a shelter (although a really nice one with small apartments for families with children), I don't have access to a computer to work from home. All I have is my phone. My STBX threw us out with almost nothing, so I don't even have any personal possessions I can sell. I have applied for public assistance, but it hasn't been approved yet. At this point we are living on my disability benefits and my son's death benefits from his bio father.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

Openminded said:


> You have no one where you are now except for your son’s elderly paternal grandparents who are in a care home? Who would there be to help you with your son if you needed it? Would your current disability payments end if you returned to Ireland where your family is and, if so, could you get disability payments there?


American disability and death benefits continue if you leave the country if you've paid into the system long enough, as long as you are a US citizen. And I have dual citizenship, as does my son. My son and I are living in extremely low income temporary housing for battered women and displaced homemakers, and I can get help from the staff if I need it. They've actually been great about helping me out with my medical issues and making sure my son had what he needed to do the virtual learning last semester.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

2ndTimeDown said:


> My vision is not the reason I can't work. I have multiple health conditions that keep me so exhausted there is no way I can work outside the home. There are days I can't even get out of bed. And because we are currently living in what is basically a shelter (although a really nice one with small apartments for families with children), I don't have access to a computer to work from home. All I have is my phone. My STBX threw us out with almost nothing, so I don't even have any personal possessions I can sell. I have applied for public assistance, but it hasn't been approved yet. At this point we are living on my disability benefits and my son's death benefits from his bio father.


Remote work is booming right now. 

I've been looking for something on the side and I've found sub-forums on reddit with a ton of info about jobs from home. Facebook has work from home pages with a lot of info too. Some employers provide all the equipment you need, including internet, laptops, software, etc. One of them is Kelly connect. I'm amazed at the amount of companies offering remote work. They offer full time positions and benefits. Some jobs are simply customer service jobs but depending on your knowledge you can get better jobs.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I am a complete stranger, an internet ghost.

And, let me be brutally honest, though I hate doing this.

You were delivered a brutally unkind hand of cards.

Outside of your son you have no one close to cling to.

Life seems to have abandoned you.

Thank god for public services.
As meager as they are.
..............................................................................................

Now, bear with me on the following stab in the heart.
There is a reason that I am working through the following......

You eventually became a burden to your husband (in his selfish mind).
You have now become a burden to society.

Where you not_ also_ a emotional burden to him, such that he basically dumped you and your son on the street?
Did you, so piss him off, that he could not get rid of you fast enough?

Answer this honestly.

Yes, I agree, your husband is a jerk and a (expletive).

Then again, what man or woman wants to take care of a handicapped person (for life) who gives nothing in return?
Is this you?

I am not talking about income.

When a person is at the total mercy of another, the person in the compromised (weaker position) must adapt or be rejected.

Life is brutal.

...............................................................................

Going forward you must seek out an angel of a person, a male or a female that will take you in.
In return, you must be the best person that you can be.
Let them enjoy your company, not dread it.

That, is your only hope.

..........................................................................

Forgive me for my bluntness.
I admit, I may be totally wrong in what I wrote.
You too, may be an angel.

I am far from being an _aingeal__. _

..................................................................................

This ghost now returns to the shadows.


_Harken O'Ryan-_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

2ndTimeDown said:


> American disability and death benefits continue if you leave the country if you've paid into the system long enough, as long as you are a US citizen. And I have dual citizenship, as does my son. My son and I are living in extremely low income temporary housing for battered women and displaced homemakers, and I can get help from the staff if I need it. They've actually been great about helping me out with my medical issues and making sure my son had what he needed to do the virtual learning last semester.


But how would long-term help work once you are out of temporary housing? Are there social safety nets that cover that?


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

Openminded said:


> But how would long-term help work once you are out of temporary housing? Are there social safety nets that cover that?


In America, no. In Europe, yes. Which is why, as soon as the travel bans lift, I will probably go home. I hate to leave my in laws with no family to visit them, but I'm starting to think I have no choice. My father in law probably doesn't have much longer to live, and half the time we visit, my mother in law doesn't recognize us anyway. On top of which because they are in a senior home, we haven't been able to see them since March anyway. My parents are poor, but they are quite a bit younger than my in laws who married and had their one child when they were in their late 30s and they are now in their 80s. They are also healthy still. And, even though they don't have much money, they do have a good sized farmhouse and land. They have told me they would be thrilled to have us come back there to live with them. The last time they saw us my son was only 3! I have been told we can stay in this housing until the lockdowns lift to travel internationally, and I'm going to talk to my lawyer next week about whether or not we can get permission to go back despite the lockdowns since I AM an Irish citizen. I'm also going to talk to my cardiologist about locating the very best doctor in all of Ireland to deal with my particular condition, which is pretty unusual. Honestly, the thought of being able to have the very best doctors and treatment available without worrying about paying - it's a big deal to me. Medicaid really isn't very good, at least that has been my experience. I had quite a bit of savings before I got sick and American healthcare wasn't there for me or I'd still have quite a bit of savings.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

SunCMars said:


> You eventually became a burden to your husband (in his selfish mind).
> You have now become a burden to society.
> 
> Where you not_ also_ a emotional burden to him, such that he basically dumped you and your son on the street?
> ...


Wow. That's pretty harsh. I would definitely not consider that I was a burden to him emotionally, although I might have been financially, although I did bring in $1200 a month between disability and death benefits. And he made enough we didn't need my income at all. In fact, when I was working, I often got the impression that he resented the fact that I made significantly more than he did, even though he certainly liked being able to spend my earnings! But after I recovered enough to not be on 100% bed rest, I resumed being his cook, his house cleaner, and mother to my child to the greatest extent that I could, with some help from the home health aides who came in for a few hours each day. Not to mention his sex partner even though my cardiologist said I shouldn't have sex anymore due to the way it increases heart rate. I do not believe that he left me because of anything I did (or didn't do). He left me because his ex walked back into his life after years of the two of them not seeing each other, and from what he freely admitted to me, he realized he still had a stronger connection to her, both emotionally and physically, than he had ever had with me. I also believe she had what I will call a "nostalgic" appeal because they were high school sweethearts. Maybe she made him feel young again or maybe he just liked being back with someone his own age instead of someone half a generation younger than him with a child almost young enough to be his grandchild. But honestly, I truly believe he "dumped me" as completely as he did because she wanted him to do so, not because of anything I did. It also doesn't help that even though she's 10 years older than me, she looks younger and much prettier, because my health issues have really aged me.

At this point, I have pretty much decided I will go home to my parents and make the best of things that I can. I think I very well may find that I am a lot happier back on the farm than I have ever been living in the big city. At the very least there's a lot less stress. And they seem really thrilled at the idea of us moving back home. My son is the only one who doesn't want to go, and that's because he's still convinced my STBX is going to come back to us.

I know I perhaps come across as being somewhat defeatist, but that's a pretty recent thing. I only started being this way after he threw me out and I ended up living with my child in housing little more than a homeless shelter. It's pretty damn depressing to find oneself even poorer in middle age than one was as a child (and I was a really poor child). Up until the mess that has been 2020 hit the entire bloody planet, I was actually a pretty positive person. Tried to find the good in everything, tried to thank God despite my circumstances, tried to accomplish as much in any given day as my body would let me. But with everything that has gone wrong this year, both for me personally and for humanity in general, it's been really hard to stay positive, especially when I don't even dare go anywhere because I'm so high risk, so I'm stuck in this tiny apartment all the time, with a bored child, without even a TV or computer. But it seems like every time we turn around something else is going wrong in America or in the world. Another reason I want to go back to Ireland. America is so divided it scares me, and I really just want to get away from all the anger and hate that seems to have taken over this country in the last few months.

Although without getting into politics, that WAS one issue my STBX and I have had lately. We have been SO divided politically because he's a Trump supporter and I'm a Bernie supporter. In some ways I am almost glad we split up when we did, because I can't imagine how badly we'd be fighting now. My STBX was always a closet racist and homophobe and even though I put up with it I never liked it. Some of the things he used to say about some of his students horrified me but I learned very quickly not to call him out on it because it made him furiously angry if I did so (no, he was never physically abusive, but he did have a tendency to treat me like I was stupid). I'm guessing he'd probably be open about it now if it weren't for the fact that he works on a liberal college campus where such beliefs could get him fired in a heartbeat if he ever said the wrong thing.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds like you would have a better life in Ireland.

i hope it all works out well for you and your son.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

2ndTimeDown said:


> You would think a man would want to make sure the child he had raised as his own for the last 7 years would want to make sure that child would not end up in poverty when he left the child's mother.


You might think it but not everyone else would. In the scheme of things 7 years isn't all that long. He wants to cut ties and move on with his life. Might not be good for your son but ethically I don't see an issue with it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

2ndTimeDown said:


> Wow. That's pretty harsh. I would definitely not consider that I was a burden to him emotionally, although I might have been financially, although I did bring in $1200 a month between disability and death benefits. And he made enough we didn't need my income at all. In fact, when I was working, I often got the impression that he resented the fact that I made significantly more than he did, even though he certainly liked being able to spend my earnings! But after I recovered enough to not be on 100% bed rest, I resumed being his cook, his house cleaner, and mother to my child to the greatest extent that I could, with some help from the home health aides who came in for a few hours each day. Not to mention his sex partner even though my cardiologist said I shouldn't have sex anymore due to the way it increases heart rate. I do not believe that he left me because of anything I did (or didn't do). He left me because his ex walked back into his life after years of the two of them not seeing each other, and from what he freely admitted to me, he realized he still had a stronger connection to her, both emotionally and physically, than he had ever had with me. I also believe she had what I will call a "nostalgic" appeal because they were high school sweethearts. Maybe she made him feel young again or maybe he just liked being back with someone his own age instead of someone half a generation younger than him with a child almost young enough to be his grandchild. But honestly, I truly believe he "dumped me" as completely as he did because she wanted him to do so, not because of anything I did. It also doesn't help that even though she's 10 years older than me, she looks younger and much prettier, because my health issues have really aged me.
> 
> At this point, I have pretty much decided I will go home to my parents and make the best of things that I can. I think I very well may find that I am a lot happier back on the farm than I have ever been living in the big city. At the very least there's a lot less stress. And they seem really thrilled at the idea of us moving back home. My son is the only one who doesn't want to go, and that's because he's still convinced my STBX is going to come back to us.
> 
> ...


I admit I was very, very harsh with you.

If you remember, I also added that I could be wrong about _'the way things were and are'._

And, from your accounting, I sure sound like it.

Take to heart my better words about being a good companion to any angels that 'help' you out.

I wish you the best of luck-------->>>> _going forward_------->>>>


_THRD-_


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Why do you think you would have access to the best cardiologist in Ireland?









Waiting times for healthcare in Ireland ‘among worst in Europe’


Think-tank rates Netherlands top for health among 35 countries in Europe




www.irishtimes.com












Hospital waiting lists for outpatient appointments reach new high


Since the start of 2019 an additional 48,660 have joined the waiting list




www.irishtimes.com












Either side of the border, hospital waiting times in Ireland are the longest in Europe


The crisis with Northern Ireland’s hospital waiting times has highlighted the vast disparity between waiting times in Northern Ireland compared with those in Great Britain. However, the waiting times in Northern Ireland aren’t just atrocious in a UK context, but in an international context as...




sluggerotoole.com












Record high number of patients waiting for hospital appointments in Ireland


The number of patients waiting for a hospital appointment has jumped by more than 40,000 people in 2019.




www.thejournal.ie





Medically, you'd be better off in the US.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ndTimeDown said:


> I would definitely not consider that I was a burden to him emotionally, although I might have been financially, although I did bring in $1200 a month between disability and death benefits. And he made enough we didn't need my income at all. In fact, when I was working, I often got the impression that he resented the fact that I made significantly more than he did, even though he certainly liked being able to spend my earnings!


If you earned a good income, shouldn't you now be able to get Social Security Disability? You can also get interim spousal support until your divorce is final.



2ndTimeDown said:


> Honestly, the thought of being able to have the very best doctors and treatment available without worrying about paying - it's a big deal to me. Medicaid really isn't very good, at least that has been my experience. I had quite a bit of savings before I got sick and American healthcare wasn't there for me or I'd still have quite a bit of savings.


How long have you been on Medicaid? How did you qualify for Medicaid if your husband has a good paying job? Doesn’t your husband have medical insurance through his job?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@2ndTimeDown Your soon to be ex is probably a narcissist. They care about one thing. Themselves. Nobody else really matters.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Galabar01 said:


> Why do you think you would have access to the best cardiologist in Ireland?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She said that she has the best cardiologist here and hates to lose him/her


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

All other things aside, can the lawyers arrange for police escort so you can take your things and your child’s? This is really petty on on stbx part, to tatger throw away things than let you have it.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

Galabar01 said:


> Why do you think you would have access to the best cardiologist in Ireland?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My current cardiologist is one of the best known in the world for my particular condition, and if he refers me to someone in Ireland, that referral will get me in both quickly and easily. And I'm not better off in the US when my copays are so high I can't afford to go to the doctor at all. And once my divorce is final, I'll ONLY have Medicaid, which sucks in my experience.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> All other things aside, can the lawyers arrange for police escort so you can take your things and your child’s? This is really petty on on stbx part, to tatger throw away things than let you have it.


He threw us out several months ago (pre Covid). I doubt he has any of our stuff anymore.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> If you earned a good income, shouldn't you now be able to get Social Security Disability? You can also get interim spousal support until your divorce is final.
> 
> 
> 
> How long have you been on Medicaid? How did you qualify for Medicaid if your husband has a good paying job? Doesn’t your husband have medical insurance through his job?


I do get SSD, I have since 2017. I can't get any support from STBX until we go to court, and due to Covid, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
I was on temporary SSDI and Medicaid and then Family Health Plus for more than 2 years between my marriages, it ended when I remarried. My STBX does have us on his insurance but is trying to get us removed prior to the divorce being final. My legal aid is working to stop him from doing so.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

2ndTimeDown said:


> My current cardiologist is one of the best known in the world for my particular condition, and if he refers me to someone in Ireland, that referral will get me in both quickly and easily. And I'm not better off in the US when my copays are so high I can't afford to go to the doctor at all. And once my divorce is final, I'll ONLY have Medicaid, which sucks in my experience.


Why would you get priority on the current waiting list?


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

2ndTimeDown said:


> My STBX does have us on his insurance but is trying to get us removed prior to the divorce being final. My legal aid is working to stop him from doing so.


He can't do this -- make sure your legal aid stops him...


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

Galabar01 said:


> Why would you get priority on the current waiting list?


Because the best cardiologist in Ireland for my condition studied under my doctor at Harvard Med 20 years ago and they are still friends and in close contact. My doctor has already told me that if I go back he will make sure there is no gap in my treatment. Cardiologists WANT to work with me. My condition is very rare and it's even more rare that I have survived this long without surgical intervention. I've literally had papers written about me in medical journals because I am a medical anomaly.


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## 2ndTimeDown (Aug 19, 2020)

Galabar01 said:


> He can't do this -- make sure your legal aid stops him...


I'm sure they will have no problem stopping him. He has no legal way to remove me from the insurance. My legal aid is through Harvard Law School, and they've already told me if he does remove me, they'll go to the HR department and let them know it was illegal for him to do so. He's a tenured professor, so he's unlikely to get fired, but he could still get in a lot of trouble.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In reading your posts, I have been concerned about what has sounded like the Massachusetts legal/court system leaving you out to dry in what is basically an emergency since you have extremely low income and were basically thrown out on the street with your son. So I've been doing some googling about what's going on in the Massachusetts court system and also spoke on the phone with someone in the Massachusetts court system. Something seems off in the legal advice you seem to be getting.

About 95% of divorces don't require a court hearing and the terms of the divorce and settlement are reached through the couple's lawyers. The courts making some COVID-19 modifications to their operations should have no effect on you filing for divorce.

Perhaps you need to have a stern talk with the legal aid group and let them know that you need to file for divorce NOW and you want them to file for divorce and serve your husband. You want the divorce filing to stipulate that you get interim spousal support starting now and retroactive back to when he kicked you out, a set amount of funds so that you can get a place to live, you want all of your and your son's belongings, and that he will not remove you from his health insurance until after the divorce is final. And if they will not do it, then you would do well to find an attorney or a more proactive legal aid group. This one might be helpful... MassLegalHelp

Here's some info I found....

Many court employees, judges, etc. have been working remotely, but they have been working. While some court hearings have been postponed, many have been help with some of them being done with remote communications, telephonically, etc.

-------------------------------------------
_Court *buildings* began to allow some in-person business July 13. They plan to open more August 10. _

-------------------------------------------
"If your case is not an emergency you can file by mail or e-file, if e-filing is available."

-------------------------------------------
*How the Coronavirus May Impact Your Divorce and Family Finances in Massachusetts*

"On May 4, 2020, Massachusetts courts were temporarily closed in response to the COVID-19 crisis. The courts were accepting emergency matters, but they were closed to the public. As of June 1, 2020, a new order is effective that opens the courts for emergency and non-emergency case filings, but the physical buildings will still be closed to the public until further notice.

Courts will conduct business virtually, as they have been since the May 4 order, and will continue to do so until at least July 1, 2020. Virtual business may mean handling matters over phone, videoconference, email or similar means. When court personnel are physically present in a courtroom in order to carry out these virtual hearings, no one else is allowed to be present in the courtroom without the judge or clerk-magistrate’s permission."


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Great job Ele 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@2ndTimeDown Which part of Ireland do your parents live in? I'm just being nosy, as I have some distant relatives living in Ireland.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Hell no. No man should ever pay child support for a child that isn't biologically his. Not his seed not his problem or obligation.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

2ndTimeDown said:


> Because the best cardiologist in Ireland for my condition studied under my doctor at Harvard Med 20 years ago and they are still friends and in close contact. My doctor has already told me that if I go back he will make sure there is no gap in my treatment. Cardiologists WANT to work with me. My condition is very rare and it's even more rare that I have survived this long without surgical intervention. I've literally had papers written about me in medical journals because I am a medical anomaly.











Irish doctor suspended by UK hospital after helping injured wife jump queue at busy A&E department | The Irish Post


AN Irish hospital consultant arranged for his injured wife to jump the queue of a busy A&E de...




www.irishpost.com





Good luck with that...

Also, what happens if you or your child get sick with some other illness? Are you prepared to wait more than 18 months for treatment? You will get immediate and top notch treatment on Medicaid here in the US.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

BruceBanner said:


> Hell no. No man should ever pay child support for a child that isn't biologically his. Not his seed not his problem or obligation.


Yup. Not to sound like a broken record, but this was the agreement when he married you. He *would not have married you* if he were then to be legally financially responsible for your child.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Galabar01 said:


> Irish doctor suspended by UK hospital after helping injured wife jump queue at busy A&E department | The Irish Post
> 
> 
> AN Irish hospital consultant arranged for his injured wife to jump the queue of a busy A&E de...
> ...


As someone who works daily with doctors and nurses, I would say that in most states, that's simply not true.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Galabar01 said:


> Why do you think you would have access to the best cardiologist in Ireland?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is not entirely relevant as Ireland isn't a part of the UK.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> This is not entirely relevant as Ireland isn't a part of the UK.


Depends on which part...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

That's true.


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## UndecidedinNY (Jul 11, 2013)

No. I don't think a man has the responsibility to pay child support for ANY children he didn't participate in bringing into the world. Instead of going after him for child support, you can probably get alimony to help you out, and start finding other ways to support yourself. The fact that he wants NOTHING to do with your son makes me think it's best if you cut him out otherwise, because you should want better for your child. I wouldn't want my child to spend a second with anyone who didn't care about him. 

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Can you look for remote work online? That is how most people are working now.


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