# Marriage Advice - Am I Justified Feeling Like This



## Smithy (Mar 14, 2019)

Hi all,

Sorry, but this is going to be a long post. I hope you can all read it and give objective thoughts and advice. So, I’ve never done anything like this before but I need to reach out to someone.

I’ve been with my wife for 12 years now, 9 of those years married. We have two kids under 8. Recently I found messages on my wifes phone to a male work colleague of hers. These messages contained rants about her work day (fair enough), jokes about how one creepy guy fancies her (I took that as office joking) but there was also messages of a very sexual nature from my wife and personal messages about our marriage and my health. These weren’t the occasional messages, they were almost every day.

The messages of a sexual nature mostly started from my wife, she talk about her sexual preferences, when we’d last had sex, her past sexual experiences, how good she was with her tongue, about fantasies I may have…. I’m sure you get the picture. There were messages from him asking questions about them and he’d push for info on whether she’d had a threesome and whether she’s been with another woman.

The messages about me were mostly putting me down, things like, oh he’s in a mood again (when actually I wasn’t), she told him I was on antidepressants and called me broken! Yeah, seriously! 

Now I feel it difficult to talk and hands up, I never told her I went on antidepressants but I’m a private person and the normal solution of just dealing with my issues myself wasn’t working, so I reached out to my doctor and they put me on the meds. I was never suicidal or anything, just, life got a bit crap. So I know it wasn’t nice to not tell my wife, but I told nobody.

My wife had been on her phone a lot and to make a point of this I casually started asking her “who’s that?” and she’d tell me a name but she never mentioned this guy.
When I mentioned that I’d seen some of the messages from this guy she just brushed it off as he’s a friend and it was just banter. I asked her what she thought constituted banter and she handed over her phone for me to read all the messages. As I read more and more out to her, I could see the look on her face of “oh crap” and she went, that’s enough and took the phone back. I said I was uncomfortable with the messages she’s sending and asked her to stop. She said she would.

Roll on a month, guess what, she was still sending those kind of messages, so she lied to me (she didn’t know I knew at this point I’d seen the recent messages). We had a chat, I asked her why she’s spending so much time messaging and did she still message that guy, she said she did. I asked her what the content of the text were and she said just rants about work. I asked her to show me and she flat out refused. I asked her how often they messaged, she said occasionally, I said every day isn’t occasionally. So I felt she lied and was hiding something.

When I walked behind her at one time, she minimised the screen on her phone and she saw I saw, couldn’t help myself, so I maximised the screen and she was messaging him. Again, if there is nothing to hide, why the lies and secrecy?

At this point, I asked her to stop messaging him completely, I was uncomfortable with it. She was not happy but told me she had. Two days later, she admitted she’d been messaging him again! I said, again, she needs to stop and the next day she said she’s told him that I’d said she couldn’t message him anymore and they’d only speak at work about work. She told me she’d deleted him.

What would you know, she hadn’t deleted him, only the previous messages, she’d kept his number.

Now, I feel lied to, I feel betrayed, I feel hurt and I feel I can’t trust her. I’ve never had an issue with her going out, speaking to work colleagues until this.

I guess, if you’re still reading  - am I…

Justified in feeling lied to?
Justified in feeling hurt?
Justified in being mistrustful and asking her to stop messaging him?

She says they’re just friends and I’m being controlling but I don’t understand why she would lie about it all, be secretive and deceptive. I feel she's had an emotional affair and crossed the line.

She says she understands that she shared too much information but on the other hand, she doesn’t see what she’s done wrong! She feels it’s ok to share information, it’s ok to slag me off to her friends and discuss our marriage problems and my health. I say it’s not.

Sorry for the long post but even just typing this out has helped calm me down a bit.

Any thoughts or questions?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Yes, this is very wrong. She has no respect for you. And whats worse, I don't blame her. You keep moving your red line, dude. Time to make a statement. Words are cheap. Pack her stuff and tell her she can stay at her friend/parents house until she gets serious about your marriage. You need to show her you have a backbone. Or you can keep moving your line, eventually (if not yet) it will be too late.

The 7 year itch is real. You are is dangerous territory.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Smithy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry, but this is going to be a long post. I hope you can all read it and give objective thoughts and advice. So, I’ve never done anything like this before but I need to reach out to someone.
> 
> ...


Because you were.



> I feel betrayed,


Because you were.



> I feel hurt and I feel I can’t trust her.


Because you can't. 



> I’ve never had an issue with her going out, speaking to work colleagues until this.
> 
> I guess, if you’re still reading  - am I…
> 
> ...


Asking her to stop messaging him is not enough.




> She says they’re just friends and I’m being controlling but I don’t understand why she would lie about it all, be secretive and deceptive. I feel she's had an emotional affair and crossed the line.


Get over the coping with infidelity forum. She lied because she wants her cake and to eat it too. Don't let her.



> She says she understands that she shared too much information but on the other hand, she doesn’t see what she’s done wrong!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why would she stop?

To this point, you've shown her you won't do anything about it.

If you want to see a change, start taking action rather than just talking about it.

Is the OM married?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Your wife is cheating, and there is no excuse for it. I think you should keep snooping.

I'd be tempted to tell the guy to back off. Is he her supervisor?


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I am married 47 years and our thing is that if one of us does something that the other does not like or makes them suspicious, we stop doing it, period. I have full access to my wife’s electronic devices. We share passwords. There should be nothing that you have to hide from your spouse, especially in this day and age when so many men and women are carrying on romances online sharing feelings with others that they should share with their spouses. Guys especially know how to worm their way into a girl’s heart. They listen to their problems and agree with them all the time. Yes, your husband is a jerk for doing this or that. Yes, you were right. No, it is not your fault, etc.. 

That leads to developing feelings and sharing even more and next thing you know, you are just her paycheck and she has a whole other life online with another guy who is looking for a chance have sex with her and believe me, guys do not usually have female friends without thinking of having sex with a woman. It is in our genes to view women as. potential mates. I also know because I lost a fiancé and a girlfriend to secret admirers. In one can a good friend of mine who lent a sympathetic ear to my wife and then his penis.

So I would confront her and remind her that married people do not hide things from each other unless they are doing something they are not supposed to do. That is what she is doing after all; hiding stuff that she is not supposed to be doing. If you do not nip these things in the bud, they turn into something worse. I know because I once was naive and thought nothing of it until too late. I know where m wife is every time using my iPhone. I know her friends and we only go out as a couple. When she goes out without me it is to a friend’s house to play cards or bingo and I know for a fact she is there because there are lots of witnesses and her girlfriend’s husband who can confirm it to me if I asked. However, as bad as this sounds, I do not look through her phone searching for things. I am a retired IT guy so I maintain all of her electronic devices and have passwords. Plus she seldom deletes anything and has had opportunities to have sex with other men with my OK and refused every time. Sometimes when you take away the taboo, it is no longer exciting to do,. 

Confront her and tell her that her behavior makes you feel like she is having an emotional affair with a guy and those can turn into physical affairs even if she does not think so. The fact that it bothers you should be reason enough for her to stop doing what she is doing and you will give her full access to your computer and phone and expect the same from her. If not then she has something to hide from you and that is unacceptable and you take that as permission to date other women since she sees no harm in confiding or talking to men. See what happens.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Your wife is cheating, and there is no excuse for it. I think you should keep snooping.
> 
> I'd be tempted to tell the guy to back off. Is he her supervisor?


No, don't do that. Thats just kicking the can down the road. He isn't his problem. She needs to end it, figure out that she is wrong. 

Problem is his words mean nothing to her. Obviously anything he says she is gonna scoff at. Time for action. Kick her out. 

There is also the chance she is already screwing this dude since he is easily accessible. Start snooping.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Smithy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry, but this is going to be a long post. I hope you can all read it and give objective thoughts and advice. So, I’ve never done anything like this before but I need to reach out to someone.
> 
> ...


Your W is in a EA and on her way to an PA. You have every right to feel betrayed. Beside the sexual flirting, talk of your marriage in a negative light with OM is a huge NO NO. Your W is to come to you to sort things out. 

Your W has definitely crossed the line. Does not appear physically from what I gather from your post. However, its working towards it.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

If I may ask:

Why do you allow her to treat you like this?
Why do you allow yourself to be treated like this?

What justifications do you tell yourself to not blow this up? 
If this was a friend doing this to you, what would you do?

I get that I am an armchair quarterback here and things are easier said than done. 
Why do we allow such behaviors from those that "love us"?

Your wife has no respect for you.
Your wife has no respect for your feelings.

Your wife is in an EA and won't stop.

Why stay/deal with/have anything more to do with a cheater?
Why not contact a lawyer and find out your rights?
Why not step up and show that her poor choices are ripping the marriage apart?
Why not show her that cheating has consequences?


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Yeswecan said:


> Your W is in a EA and on her way to an PA. You have every right to feel betrayed. Beside the sexual flirting, talk of your marriage in a negative light with OM is a huge NO NO. Your W is to come to you to sort things out.
> 
> Your W has definitely crossed the line. Does not appear physically from what I gather from your post. However, its working towards it.


:iagree:


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you're justified. She's enjoying the attention of a new man and she doesn't want to stop. This is how affairs begin.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You've gotten good advice here.

I am curious as to why you wouldn't tell your wife that you're on antidepressants? Were there other things going on that made you uncomfortable sharing?


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## Smithy (Mar 14, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> You've gotten good advice here.
> 
> I am curious as to why you wouldn't tell your wife that you're on antidepressants? Were there other things going on that made you uncomfortable sharing?


I just dont talk about that sort of stuff, just tend to deal with it on my own. I know i should have told her.

I dont believe anything physical has happened but i'm 100% in agreement that she's had an emotional affair. I've told her this but she denies it, it's just banter to her.

I do snoop and i've seen messages to her other close friends where she's confused about my reactions to whats happened, she's said to them that absolutely nothing has happened and she loves me.

We are going to counselling but i just dont understand how she thinks what she's done isnt wrong. Can someone really be that naive?


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## Smithy (Mar 14, 2019)

Thanks for all the replies.



lifeistooshort said:


> You've gotten good advice here.
> 
> I am curious as to why you wouldn't tell your wife that you're on antidepressants? Were there other things going on that made you uncomfortable sharing?


I just dont talk about that sort of stuff, just tend to deal with it on my own. I know i should have told her.

I dont believe anything physical has happened but i'm 100% in agreement that she's had an emotional affair. I've told her this but she denies it, it's just banter to her.

I do snoop and i've seen messages to her other close friends where she's confused about my reactions to whats happened, she's said to them that absolutely nothing has happened and she loves me.

We are going to counselling but i just dont understand how she thinks what she's done isnt wrong. Can someone really be that naive?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Smithy said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, its called gaslighting. She can't deny the obvious so she questions your sanity and/or plays dumb. She knows exactly what she is doing and she's playing you. Counseling is a 50/50 shot, depending on who you get. If you get an affair apologist, then you will be backpeddling the whole time. I'd interview them first and check what their views on infidelity are and what they typically discuss. 

I still think the only way you are going to get her attention is going nuclear. Counselling just screams, okay you sucker punched me but instead of consequences, we are gonna talk this out cause I am soooo afraid to lose you. Its a display of lower value. Kick her ass out for a few days until she comes grovelling back begging for forgiveness is a show of higher value.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She's not naive.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Infidelity forum here you come.

She is cheating on you.

Your marriage needs help to survive. I believe you have contributed to the damage just from a couple things you have revealed but the infidelity needs addressed first before other issues can be resolved.

The OM needs to go before your marriage has a chance.

Your wife won't listen right now. You are going to probably have to take decisive actions to wake her up and you have to be willing to lose her to save your marriage.

At this point, she isn't much of a wife to you anyway as she is to busy being the OM's girlfriend.

Do you have a good support network? Family and friends that trust you and will support you?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Ask her if it would be okay to talk to a woman the same way you talk to him.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Not to be overly critical but you have already shown her that you aren't going to really do anything about it.
Every time you only talk about it with her and don't "do" anything about it.... you are only reinforcing the fact that she doesn't have to stop.
She is basically saying straight to your face "I'm busy having an emotional affair....please stop bothering me about it."


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Smithy said:


> I just dont talk about that sort of stuff, just tend to deal with it on my own. I know i should have told her.
> 
> I dont believe anything physical has happened but i'm 100% in agreement that she's had an emotional affair. I've told her this but she denies it, it's just banter to her.
> 
> ...


Your W needs to see your side. Ask your W how she would feel if you and Mary Jane Rottencrotch from the officer were text flirt messages and discussed how bad your marriage is. I suspect your W would see this differently. 

Get your W "Not Just Friends" Shirley Glass.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ask your W to hand you her phone. If she says no, walk away.

Ask her again in an hour. If she says no again..... (during that hour you will print and fill out

your part on your state's DIY divorce), drop the D papers in her lap.

Walk away....

You will get a reaction.....and it will tell you a great deal "where you stand" in this EA


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## Smithy (Mar 14, 2019)

Hi all - so she openly offered her phone and said i can read anything on it..... i have been anyway.

Regarding if it were the other way round, she says she'd be ok with it because she trusts me and because it was her i am coming home to.

It was her idea to start counselling but the fact she just doesnt want to stop messaging this guy is a total lack of respect. She says she's committed to our marriage and loves me but wants to be able to talk to friends as well.

I will tell her tonight that this will be the last time i'm going to ask, she must stop messaging him and she must delete his number. We'll see what her reaction is.

When all this started, i barely spoke to her for two weeks and told her exactly what i thought, and when she brought up counselling i said it'd be best to go straight to the divorce lawyers. She was upset by that but lets see if she agrees to cut all comms with him.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Smithy said:


> Hi all - so she openly offered her phone and said i can read anything on it..... i have been anyway.
> 
> Regarding if it were the other way round, she says she'd be ok with it because she trusts me and because it was her i am coming home to.
> 
> ...


Pay attention to what she DOES, not what she SAYS. If it's "nothing" with her male co-worker,

then she shouldn't mind ceasing communication.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Smithy said:


> Hi all - so she openly offered her phone and said i can read anything on it..... i have been anyway.
> 
> Regarding if it were the other way round, she says she'd be ok with it because she trusts me and because it was her i am coming home to.
> 
> ...


If your W truly cared she would see this communication with OM upsets you and she needs to curtail it. Your request is not out of line. Your W should not talk marriage difficulties with OM. Between women is ok IMO.

Get the book Not Just Friends.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Pay attention to what she DOES, not what she SAYS. If it's "nothing" with her male co-worker,
> 
> 
> 
> then she shouldn't mind ceasing communication.


Read this repeatedly until it sinks in, @Smithy.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> Pay attention to what she DOES, not what she SAYS. If it's "nothing" with her male co-worker,
> 
> then she shouldn't mind ceasing communication.




Very good chance this one will take it underground. She is fighting it to much.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Smithy said:


> Hi all - so she openly offered her phone and said i can read anything on it..... i have been anyway.
> 
> Regarding if it were the other way round, she says she'd be ok with it because she trusts me and because it was her i am coming home to.
> 
> ...


Well done, stick to your guns. If she chooses not to delete him then you will know where you stand.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Prepare yourself... she works with him.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Is the other guy married? If he is, I wonder if his wife is as big a fan of these conversations as he is?

I think that would be a good thing to find out about. Also, if he is married, since they are such good friends, why don't they arrange a double date so you guys can all be friends?

It is pretty normal for people I am friends with to go out to dinner with my wife and I so we can get to know the families, etc.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Screw counseling. She is refusing to stop contact, so the counseling isnt going to do one damn bit of good. File for divorce. If she thinks your marriage is so bad, then its divorce she gets. THAT should get her attention. Because as it stands, that other man is her priority, not you, not your marriage. Now just because you file doesnt mean you actually HAVE to get divorced of course, you can stop it at any time if she pulls her head out of her ass. This is what its going to take to make her stop. (if she will) Tell her if she wants to continue with texting this idiot, by all means carry on, you dont control her... but she will do it without you as her husband.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Smithy said:


> Hi all - so she openly offered her phone and said i can read anything on it..... i have been anyway.
> 
> Regarding if it were the other way round, she says she'd be ok with it because she trusts me and because it was her i am coming home to.
> 
> ...


Take her up on the counseling. You have some stuff to sort out for yourself as well as her.

With the caveat that she needs to go no contact with her boyfriend first.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TBT said:


> Prepare yourself... she works with him.


This as well OP.

She can easily take this underground with them working together.

Do you know anything about this man?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Smithy said:


> Now, I feel lied to, I feel betrayed, I feel hurt and I feel I can’t trust her.
> 
> ...
> 
> She says they’re just friends and I’m being controlling but I don’t understand why she would lie about it all, be secretive and deceptive. I feel she's had an emotional affair and crossed the line.


You feel this way because all of the above has happened to you. She has lied to, betrayed and hurt you. She's shown you that you cannot trust her.

All cheaters come back with old "you're being controlling" chestnut. It's on page 4, chapter 2 of the Cheaters Handbook. 

I'd go further than just insisting the messaging stop. I'd be insisting my husband change jobs. That's if I wanted to save the marriage of course. If I were in your shoes, I'd honestly be wondering what the heck there is left to save.


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## Smithy (Mar 14, 2019)

hi all - so i told her i'm done with the lies and the BS over this. Her words mean nothing so i want action. i said we cannot move forward until she proves she's committed so she needs to delete his messages and delete his number. She said thats harsh and again i'm being controlling.

Problem is, she is stubborn and has always got her way so me telling her to do something isnt going down well.

I know this other guys name, i know he has a partner and a young kid. Thing is, my wife cant tell me much about him because..... he hasnt shared that much with him. either he was savvy enough not to or she's lying again.

I've said to her on a few occasions, let me know his partners name, i'd love to know what she thinks of this. Just silence.

Well the balls in her court now, i'm not backing down, she deletes him or we dont move forward.

Has any one been to marriage counselling? What do they talk about and if the counsellor sees that it's clearly one person at fault or obstructing the path to moving forward, do they say something to that person?

I guess i'm hoping they'll see what she's done is completely wrong and they'll tell her that.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Define what you mean by “we don’t move forward”... unless you mean divorce, you are spinning your wheels. 

Calling you controlling is classic cheater script. You should be really disturbed by the fact that she does NOT want to give up talking to this man. She is making him priority over you and she isn’t taking you seriously. Show her that is a mistake. 

Best of luck over the next day or so. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Smithy said:


> hi all - so i told her i'm done with the lies and the BS over this. Her words mean nothing so i want action. i said we cannot move forward until she proves she's committed so she needs to delete his messages and delete his number. She said thats harsh and again i'm being controlling.
> 
> Problem is, she is stubborn and has always got her way so me telling her to do something isnt going down well.
> 
> ...


Take the guys number off her cell phone, and give it to a private investigator. They'll tell you who's number it is for $25 or so.

At which point you could stop by his house, introduce yourself, and let that sink in. Then hand him a copy of the obituary section, get back in your car, and go home.


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## Smithy (Mar 14, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> Define what you mean by “we don’t move forward”... unless you mean divorce, you are spinning your wheels.
> 
> Calling you controlling is classic cheater script. You should be really disturbed by the fact that she does NOT want to give up talking to this man. She is making him priority over you and she isn’t taking you seriously. Show her that is a mistake.
> 
> ...


I guess, it means divorce. I am disturbed by it and she knows this. Am i pinning my hopes too much on counselling and them pointing out she's wrong and needs to sort her crap out?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Smithy said:


> I just dont talk about that sort of stuff, just tend to deal with it on my own. I know i should have told her.
> 
> I dont believe anything physical has happened but i'm 100% in agreement that she's had an emotional affair. I've told her this but she denies it, it's just banter to her.
> 
> ...


First, I hope you got copies of these texts and sent them to yourself out of the house so she can't delete them.
Second, she is telling her friends that so that SHE doesn't look bad and is starting to re-write your marital history -- YOU have issues, YOU are depressed, SHE is in love with you but YOU are .... Etc..
Typical Cheater BULL****. You need to find out if this guy is married, and you need to expose this to his wife/gf AND DO NOT tell your wife you are doing this (you need copies of the texts as proof). Your wife needs a serious wake up. Going to a lawyer and finding out what will happen if you D will allow you to plan ahead -- figure out financials, child support/custody (if you have kids), etc.. Handing her D papers will certainly wake her up as will then exposing the texts of what she is doing to your family, HER family, friends, etc..
I would do NO counseling unless she stops talking to him. SHE should be going to counseling to find out WHY she is willing to through away your marriage over this.
She obviously thinks she isn't -- that you won't do anything.

The problem is she WORKS with him and can talk to him there, so how will you know? 
Get a PI and get his information including his partner and LET HER KNOW what he is texting (please get those copies for this reason if nothing else).

Her reaction should ALREADY tell you all you need -- she is unwilling to stop as you are "controlling". Just tell her this. I will not be controlling -- you can choose to talk to who you want to -- and I can choose to react any way I deem appropriate. Do NOT bluff with a D -- if you say it, FOLLOW THROUGH and give her the papers. You can always stop the D, but showing her that you took the effort to go to a lawyer and do the work towards that will show you are serious. DO NOT back off on this, or she will realize there are no real consequences to this. 

PLEASE take a hard line here and do NOT do the pick me dance. It won't work.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Smithy said:


> I guess, it means divorce. I am disturbed by it and she knows this. Am i pinning my hopes too much on counselling and them pointing out she's wrong and needs to sort her crap out?


Smithy......if she is willing to continue to do an action which was said to be a deal breaker.....she

is obviously already checked out. But.....she wants to attend MC..... Not the usual script seen here.

I think she is calling your bluff. You stated...."she is stubborn and has always got her way so me telling her to do something isnt going down well."

If you have always caved before, let this be your stand. Consequences after an action 

is meaningless until it is executed as stated. So let her call your bluff.... and drop those papers

in her lap. Watch those eyes get huge.....see the panic envelop her......Why?

You just made things "real" ...... She is in a "teen-age fairy tale" with this guy. Her thinking

is impulsive. Again.... if you choose to take action...... I still say her re-action will tell you

a great deal on how she feels about you and how deep she is with this guy.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Bud a marriage councilor isnt going to fix your problem here. You're the only one that can do that. Right now you have accepted living in Infidelty by your lack of actions.

Youve got another man deep in your marriage. So far you're accepting it.

Your wife is in an emotional affair with another man. EA's with contact become sexual affairs if it hasn't already.

As you've found talking gets you nothing in these situations. She's blowing you off. 

If you can't pull the trigger then find his partner and send her some of the messages. If you saved any which you should have.

The thing is if they have contact it won't stop. She needs a new job.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Smithy said:


> I guess, it means divorce. I am disturbed by it and she knows this. Am i pinning my hopes too much on counselling and them pointing out she's wrong and needs to sort her crap out?



You want a councilor to fix this Because you aren't willing to?

Good luck with that.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Oh so she is stubborn and obtuse...Welcome to the grandious world of a wayward. I'm telling you, MC is a waste of time...if you have to hire someone to tell your wife shes wrong then you have problems. No MC until she goes No Contact... Don't worry about him, don't pay him a visit and try to be a tough guy...the problem is with your wife and her ****ty bounderies, not him. If she refuses to delete his number, then drop D papers in her lap like a badass.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> You want a councilor to fix this Because you aren't willing to?
> 
> Good luck with that.


Not at all. I think all that @Smithy is thinking is that maybe if a relationship expert says: "Mrs Smithy, you don't need to exchange bodily fluids to be a cheater. And you, madam, are a cheater."

He wants to make sure he has covered all avenues so that his wife can't say: "But I didn't realise it was so serious!" after he files for divorce.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Smithy said:


> I guess, it means divorce. I am disturbed by it and she knows this. Am i pinning my hopes too much on counselling and them pointing out she's wrong and needs to sort her crap out?


show her you mean business by at least talking to a lawyer and get their business card and leave where she will find it...this will really mean it too her...otherwise the rest are just words.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Not at all. I think all that @Smithy is thinking is that maybe if a relationship expert says: "Mrs Smithy, you don't need to exchange bodily fluids to be a cheater. And you, madam, are a cheater."
> 
> He wants to make sure he has covered all avenues so that his wife can't say: "But I didn't realise it was so serious!" after he files for divorce.


I get that but the chance of getting a decent MC IMO are less than 50/50


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> I get that but the chance of getting a decent MC IMO are less than 50/50


And I suspect that as @Smithy spells counselling like I do, that he is probably in the UK. Which, if so, means that he can file for adultery.

Plus he used the term "slag off" which is as Brit as they come.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> And I suspect that as @Smithy spells counselling like I do, that he is probably in the UK. Which, if so, means that he can file for adultery.
> 
> Plus he used the term "slag off" which is as Brit as they come.


Probably drinks Guinness too >


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

I think you two need counseling, and you should try. You wrote, 

"Has any one been to marriage counselling? What do they talk about and if the counsellor sees that it's clearly one person at fault or 
obstructing the path to moving forward, do they say something to that person? I guess i'm hoping they'll see what she's done is completely wrong and they'll tell her that." I think that is unlikely, and that there are things bothering her that you need to address. 

I can agree with the people who complain about cheating but frequently there is mutual fault or issues, and that needs to be discussed. 
I know a friend or family who had a short-term affair because her husband was dominant and controlling and he failed to address that.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"I know a friend or family who had a short-term affair because her husband was dominant and controlling and he failed to address that."
NOPE -- she had an affair because she wanted to. If her husband was that bad, she should have divorced him, period.

DOESN'T mean that the marriage didn't have problems, but cheating is not an acceptable solution.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Smithy, you are being played. It's hard to admit, but it looks like she's had a lot of practice in conning you. Of course, you want to believe her. But, nope! It's an affair, and its been going on for some time.


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## Smithy (Mar 14, 2019)

Hi all - thank you for the replies.

I told her, deleting him is non-negotiable, is the blocker thats stopping us moving forward and repairing this. If she couldnt do that then we skip the counsellor and go straight to the lawyers.

She has now agreed to delete him! I will make it clear that if i find she has saved his number elsewhere or relies on him to text first so she can reply and delete messages, then there is no going back, she's out and we are done.

I've also made it clear that by continually refusing to delete him, by seemingly putting her friendship first, she's put the rebuilding of the marriage back quite a few steps. Lets see what happens.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Smithy said:


> Hi all - thank you for the replies.
> 
> I told her, deleting him is non-negotiable, is the blocker thats stopping us moving forward and repairing this. If she couldnt do that then we skip the counsellor and go straight to the lawyers.
> 
> ...


Stick to your guns in this. Be vigilant. And your W is not seemingly...she is putting OM first.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Smithy said:


> Hi all - thank you for the replies.
> 
> I told her, deleting him is non-negotiable, is the blocker thats stopping us moving forward and repairing this. If she couldnt do that then we skip the counsellor and go straight to the lawyers.
> 
> ...


How do they interact at work? What job functions do they have to perform together?

Does she take breaks and lunches with him?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> How do they interact at work? What job functions do they have to perform together?
> 
> Does she take breaks and lunches with him?


Yes, this... just deleting him from her phone isnt making him go away. She needs to be clear that lunching with him at work or any other one on one time is NOT ok as well. In fact, she likely needs to find another job.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Hope this works, but she is stubborn and sees you as controlling. I see both as likely the same thing in your marriage--although she may be just turning the tables on you. She seems to want freedom. NOPE>>> There is a chasm and an intruder, the OM, has crept in. Your relationship is in big trouble. You both have to agree to want to repair the illness. Other OM will likely creep in if the divide is not fixed.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Smithy said:


> Hi all - thank you for the replies.
> 
> I told her, deleting him is non-negotiable, is the blocker thats stopping us moving forward and repairing this. If she couldnt do that then we skip the counsellor and go straight to the lawyers.
> 
> ...


The problem is they WORK together -- how can you make sure they don't talk at work? You can't.
Also, I think you need to have her go to counseling by herself to figure out why she could so easily break the boundaries of marriage and not care about your feelings at all.

This is a good first step, but nowhere near complete enough.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Smithy said:


> She has now agreed to delete him! I will make it clear that if i find she has saved his number elsewhere or relies on him to text first so she can reply and delete messages, then there is no going back, she's out and we are done.


 She has already made multiple promises to you concerning this other man (OM) that she had no intent of keeping. She does not really even apologize to you for lying, and having broken her past promises to you. Sorry but odds are that she is going to break her promises to you again. At best she will cool it down for a bit, but I doubt that it will last. She is in at lest an emotional affair (AE) with this OM, and she will not be able to resist, especially when she does not believe that you will actually divorce her in the end. She believes that even if you get an attorney and file, that she can always call it off at the last minute after she has had a chance to see where her relationship with the OM is heading. As far as her deleting him so that she cannot text him anymore, does she have Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, WeChat, Houseparty, Word With Friends, or a host of other chat enabled apps? Does she have a burner phone that you do not know about? When there is an affair, there is always a way. If she is smart about her cheating, it will take valuable time for you to have irrefutable proof of her cheating.

I do not mean to be a downer, but if you read other threads in the Infedialty section, you will see women like your wife many times. If she had stopped after the first or even second time that you made an issue of it, it would be different, but she did not. The very fact that you are posting here, means that deep down inside you know this to be true. I am not saying to give up just yet, but approach this matter with that point of view.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

TRy said:


> As far as her deleting him so that she cannot text him anymore, does she have Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, WeChat, Houseparty, Word With Friends, or a host of other chat enabled apps? Does she have a burner phone that you do not know about? When there is an affair, there is always a way. If she is smart about her cheating, it will take valuable time for you to have irrefutable proof of her cheating.


Saving the number under a different name is another cheater favorite, she would probably put him under a woman's name, or just initials.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I'm sorry to say, but this ain't over by a longshot. They were talking about threesomes and if she had ever been with a woman! Hardly "flirty" inane banter. They WILL be taking this deep deep underground. It's easy when they work together.

Be ever vigilant. Your wife should give you her phone any time you request it. Be alert to new apps in which there is a messaging feature.

Next time you find her communicating with him, if I were you, I wouldn't even entertain anything but a divorce. No more chances, no counseling, she's an adult and she knows this was wrong. Has she even apologised to you for betraying the vows of your marriage?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Smithy, your WW and the POSOM work together. Watch out for nooners.


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