# Cultural differences in marriage



## ellsie (May 19, 2017)

Troll -Amp


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Unfortunately, cultural differences are real. They aren't always so extreme as in your case but they're real. 

The question is, what can you do about it? Is the legal system in the UK able to handle this? Do you have the financial and human resources to pull it off? 

Can you document abuse and put him away? Get a restraining order? Things like those.


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## gemmy (May 19, 2017)

I am a Canadian, married to an African. 

I completely relate to what your going through. I also feel my husband pulled a "bait and switch" on me. I am starting to post here to get some courage to do what I feel like I should do. 

Today is one of the last straws on the proverbial camel. I didn't sleep well last night, had a 12 hour shift where one kid was acting up all morning, the other kid was crying for an hour straight in the evening, my coworker -- who I met for the first time yesterday -- was infinitely more appreciative and helpful to me than my husband is. I came home, vacuumed for reasons (yeah I had to). He came home from tree planting so I get he's wiped as well, but I asked him to at least appreciate everything I've been doing (there's more than what I'm posting here) and show me that he cares about me and his replies were: "why don't you marry your coworker?" "**** you" and "next week I'm not coming back." 

Feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to talk with you and if you'd be willing to listen to me, as well. :'(


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## ellsie (May 19, 2017)

I don't know if there is anything I can/should do about it. I chose to marry him. I agreed to marry him. I have innocent kids who are dependent on a family. From what I have read I could divorce him on grounds of unreasonable behaviour, not adultery because I continue living with him. I don't think I could do it. There is too much at risk. As long as I am making him happy he will stay with me and our kids are ok. I don't trust him to parent them alone. I want them to be ok and right now I'm the main caregiver. If he takes them out of the country back to his native country I could easily never see them again.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ellsie said:


> My husband and I have been married for 6 years. I met my husband in year 9. He is originally from Saudi Arabia (mum from Afghanistan) but moved to the UK when he was 7. (And we have stayed in the UK. Travelled back once but live here.)
> 
> We were friends throughout secondary but we didn't date because his family was against him dating a "white non-religious mutt". I met his family a few times (introduced as a friend) and I was a bit intimidated by the culture differences. He was a really great friend and guy. We started dating at 19. He was an amazing boyfriend. Incredibly sweet, caring, there was no jealousy, we went out on dates often and did a variety of things, travelled, my friends loved him, he was always doing romantic notions. His family was not supportive, because I am non-religious and he was not allowed to marry me. They also said I would be a bad wife. My family liked him but was not supportive for similar reasons, cultural differences and worries and didn’t want me to marry him. I loved him, he was an amazing partner and we had an us against the world complex. He was perfect and everything I wanted, I thought I was so lucky.
> 
> ...


This is one of the key reasons I would be totally against my children marrying anyone from any of those countries. I myself am from a mixed marriage but my H is from further East, we have struggled with cultural differences, in law interference, etc. His faith however, is one which treats women equally and since he has converted to mine of his own volition, which has reduced differences there.

My daughter dated someone from the same type of background as your H and he started telling her what to wear, putting her down, etc. I told her to dump him asap, and she did. She was only 20.

However, when you throw a certain religion into the mix, one which is practiced strictly and women are regarded as second class citizens then you have this. He may have grown up in the West but if his family are there you can bet he will start to practice what they do. In fact many of those that move to Western countries are so much more strict as they try and ensure their children are not 'corrupted' by the western values. It's ok to have the benefits of the country but not its culture apparently. I have seen this happen time and time again. The kids grow up and many become more strict than the parents themselves. All of the things you mention are classic. He is allowed to marry 4 times too, so you have no rights with regard to him flirting, etc. The only good thing is that you are in the West, get away from him as soon as you can. Seek help from a woman's organisation and the steps you need to take.

What he is doing is abusive, he probably thinks it is his right. To hit your wife to discipline her is also his right according to his faith, you are basically his property. However, the country you live in has laws about this kind of thing, which supersede his tribal/religious mores. 
Use the law of your country and get away from him. What will you do when he takes another 'wife.'? Leave now before things get worse. Do you have any close friends you can talk to and rely on? 
You are still young, time to get out and go. If you stay too long you will become like the frog in the boiling pot of water, unaware that you are being abused.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Unfortunately, what you are experiencing is not uncommon. Not all Muslims live their lives this way. But some do. 

From what you have said, you did not sign up for what you have now. You signed up for the guy you were dating. I'm pretty sure that if you knew what your marriage would turn into you would have run. Don't let this idea you have in your head that this is what you signed up for twist you in knots. Again, this is not what you signed up for. Your husband pulled a bait and switch on you.

Can you make phone calls from work? Here is a hotline for those who are experiencing domestic abuse. Please contact them and find out what help you can get.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/helpline/

You are also going to need to talk to a solicitor. The abuse hotline should put you in touch with a local organization that can provide you with counseling. They will most likely also have a list of solicitors that handle cases like your pro bono. You need to find out how to prevent your husband running off to Saudi Arabia with your children if and when you leave him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

By the way, Islam does not view marriage in the same way that Christianity and Judaism does. It's not a sacrament in Islam. It's only a contract between a man and the woman's father. (Note that a woman does not even sign her own marriage contract under Islam). 

Under Islam a man can have 4 wives. He can also easily divorce a wife. Under strict Islam a woman can also divorce easily. However, the culture in most Islamic countries does not usually allow women easy divorce. So divorcing under Islam is not all that big a deal. However, under Islam, the children belong to the father and he always gets 100% custody and the mother gets nothing. She would only get the children if the father did not want them.

So be careful. Do not allow him to take your children out of the UK.

I have a niece who married a Muslim man. He's no where near as bad as your husband. But she will not allow him to take both of their son's to his home country at one time. He can only take one at a time. That way she knows he will always come back with the one child. Sad way to have to live.

And he did the same thing. Before they married he was educated in the UK and USA. He was very western. Once they were married, he completely changed. Though I don't think he's as scary as your husband.


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## rsexton (Jul 27, 2016)

I understand what you are going through. My husband is also arab. I am plan jane american. So it is similar. Although my husband doesn't treat me that way your story is familiar.


I can tell you that the right hand thing is religious. In America some say left handed people are closer to God but in islam it is the opposite. But most muslims will tell you that if you cant help it than its ok. Especially you being an adult but the kids will be expected to learn to favor their right hand

The washing after sex is always required in islam because you never know when you will die and you want to meet your maker clean and pure. Plus you cant pray with the "stuff" on you. Islam goes by the traditional "cleanliness is next to godliness" thing. 

The washing during sex is weird never heard of that. 

Your husband seems to be off on alot of things like alcohol is forbidden in islam. And from your text you kinda hint at anal sex that is also forbidden in islam. 

Hitting you is a big no no and is not tolerated in islam. 

In islam divorce is legal and advised incases where people just cant be together. 

Sex during menstration is forbidden but treating you like an outcast isnt. 

Sex outside the marriage is forbidden as is flirting with the opposite sex as it leads to unpure thoughts and affairs

You will hear that in some countries divorce is very frowned upon and it is but that is a cultural thing with that country .. it is allowed in islam. 

I dont know what advice i can offer you except maybe try to speak with him more on this. He sounds like a real jerk to be honest but maybe he just needs to be awakened. You might also want to learn about his religion more as this will help you understand some of the things he does. Hope this helps 


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## rsexton (Jul 27, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> By the way, Islam does not view marriage in the same way that Christianity and Judaism does. It's not a sacrament in Islam. It's only a contract between a man and the woman's father. (Note that a woman does not even sign her own marriage contract under Islam).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You are very wrong about marriage not being sacred in Islam. Just because a man can marry 4 wives. You do know that in early Christianity and Judism this was also allowed. The reason because men have one thing in mind and that is to procreate. Marry more than one prevents sins etc. And they do not have to have 4 wives. That is only if they can afford it and each wife has to have her own house and under islamic law she can choose not to work and he will have to provide for all her needs. Dont get islam confused with cultural stigmas. Just because a country allows 50 wives doesn't mean that is islam. 

I have been married to a muslim man for 14 years and he has never hit me, scared me or forced himself on me. There are differences in culture but it is very much like the culture in Europe. 

I also know many women who have married arabs and their husbands are also kind and caring. 

Islam doesnt mean that the man is gonna be a jerk. In fact he is suppose to be kind and trusting to his wife. 

In Iran the children belong to the father. Shia muslims believe this. The rest they stay with the mother. There is a friend of outs who is muslim and married a muslim woman from his own country they stayed married for 2 yrs and divorced. Their son lives with her in her country bc she wanted to go back home. He flys every 2 months to see him. He didn't even try to take the kid from her. He just accepted their divorce and still does visitation with him. 




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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

rsexton said:


> You are very wrong about marriage not being sacred in Islam. Just because a man can marry 4 wives. You do know that in early Christianity and Judism this was also allowed. The reason because men have one thing in mind and that is to procreate. Marry more than one prevents sins etc. And they do not have to have 4 wives. That is only if they can afford it and each wife has to have her own house and under islamic law she can choose not to work and he will have to provide for all her needs. Dont get islam confused with cultural stigmas. Just because a country allows 50 wives doesn't mean that is islam.


I disagree with you that in Islam marriage is sacred in the same way that it is in Christianity. I have studied Islam extensively with Imam as instructors. I have lived in Islamic countries. I have Muslim family members. Basically, I have a clue. But we will have to drop this discussion here because this thread is not about the tenets of religions. If you want to debate/discuss religion, please open a thread in the Politics and Religion Forum.



rsexton said:


> I have been married to a muslim man for 14 years and he has never hit me, scared me or forced himself on me. There are differences in culture but it is very much like the culture in Europe.
> 
> I also know many women who have married arabs and their husbands are also kind and caring.
> 
> Islam doesnt mean that the man is gonna be a jerk. In fact he is suppose to be kind and trusting to his wife.


Surely you are not addressing me here since I never even suggested that Islam means that a man is gonna be a jerk.


rsexton said:


> In Iran the children belong to the father. Shia muslims believe this. The rest they stay with the mother. There is a friend of outs who is muslim and married a muslim woman from his own country they stayed married for 2 yrs and divorced. Their son lives with her in her country bc she wanted to go back home. He flys every 2 months to see him. He didn't even try to take the kid from her. He just accepted their divorce and still does visitation with him.


ellsie, can look up the custody laws in the country her husband is fro

_In Saudi Arabia, child custody is based on Islamic law. The primary concern of Saudi courts in deciding child custody cases is that the child be raised in accordance with the Islamic faith. ...

Saudi courts generally do not award custody of children to non-Saudi women. If the mother is an Arab Muslim, judges will usually not grant her custody of children unless she is residing in Saudi Arabia, or the father is not a Muslim. ...
...
Normally, under Shari'a law, a mother can maintain custody of her male children until the age of nine, and female children until the age of seven. In practice the courts favor keeping children within a strict Islamic environment. Shari'a court judges have broad discretion in custody cases and often make exceptions to these general guidelines.

Even when a mother who is residing in Saudi Arabia is granted physical custody of children, the father maintains legal custody and has the right to determine where the children live and travel. In many cases, the father has been able to assume legal custody of children against the wishes of the mother when she is unable or unwilling to meet certain conditions set by law for her to maintain her custodial rights. For example, if the mother moves to another country, the father is entitled to have custody. A court can sever a mother's custody if it determines that the mother is incapable of safeguarding the child or of bringing the child up in accordance with the appropriate religious standards. The mother can lose custody by re-marrying a non-Muslim, or by residing in a home with non-relatives. Shari'a law allows custody of children to be awarded to the closest male relative of a Saudi father in the case of death or imprisonment of the father, even if the Saudi father has made clear his wish that the children's mother have full custody (Jan. 2002).


Refworld | Saudi Arabia: Whether Saudi Arabian laws concerning child custody are applicable to Palestinians in Saudi Arabia, and whether Islamic Law provides that following a divorce a child must live with his or her mother for a period of seven year 
_​


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## Yag-Kosha (Sep 8, 2016)

My advice: Don't leave the UK at any cost. Drop this excuse for a human being like a hot potato. 

And don't buy into the whole 'moderate Islam' as people are are trying to sell wholesale and I am sure many will do in the thread. To believe any of that toilet-paper rubbish, you have to be at least radical in thought. I am Agnostic and wouldn't even date a Muslim. Just asking for trouble.


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## ellsie (May 19, 2017)

I should have listened to my parents when they told me not marry him. They didn't think - or didn't express - that it would turn out like this but they thought we would struggle too much. Now my mum isn't here and I have no one to lean on. This last year has been horrible with my mum passing and marriage problems. I don't have any friends that I can talk to about this. My husband only lets me have friends that he approves of. They are all more his friends than mine. He checks my phone every day to see who I call or message and what I search for. I can make calls at work and it's private but I work with a friend, who is married to my a friend of my husband. I don't work directly with her. 

He has said that he doesn't want our children to be corrupted and wants to be firmer to put good values in them before they are corrupted. He has expressed interest in moving back to Saudi Arabia but I'm not onboard with that and never will be. He has threatened that if I divorce him he will take our kids back and I won't see them again. That could be bluff, but I don't want to risk it. He doesn't think he is doing anything wrong. That makes it hard for me to say that he is doing anything wrong. Who am I to say that his beliefs are wrong... I married into it. 

He does pick and choose what rules he follows. I have no religion and have not converted, he wasn't suppose to marry me. I try to learn about his beliefs but I find it overwhelming and find contradicting information. My husband has never encouraged me to learn about it, but rather go along with it and "learn along the way" as he puts it. 

Starting at our wedding my husband implemented right hand/left hand for eating or cleaning. I thought it was because his family was there and I tried to be respectful. It stuck and every time that I use the wrong hand he corrects it. Still to this day it’s not natural for me to eat with my right hand. He does make our kids do it and is very strict about that. Left hand has to be used to remove impurities. Have to enter the bathroom with left foot, leave right right foot. 

Sex is something that I don’t talk about with anyone so this bit is going to be very uncomfortable for me to write - probably no biggie for someone else. I might get the terms mixed up. We haven’t had anal sex/penetration, because it’s prohibited/haram. He does not totally omit it though. The washing during sex is after coming into contact with bodily fluids, because they are impure. It’s not the full ritual/ghusl. We are allowed to touch each other’s genitals if it is for arousal. I have to give my husband oral sex but it has to be before vaginal penetration and he cannot ejaculate, but after that I have to wash my hands, arms, mouth and face. He has a term for it, it’s not coming to mind (something with a ‘g’ maybe, or ‘m’). If he does ejaculate in my mouth, which is frowned upon but not forbidden, then the whole cleaning ritual is required. He can’t perform oral sex on me because it is impure. 

There are two other women that my husband spends time with. Only when I am menstruating or if I do something wrong. If I understand correctly he can see other women but he has to spend equal time and resources on each which he does not do. He says that he is allowed to see other women, but will not bump them up in status unless I give him reason to. He is intimate with them, and tells me about it. I am not allowed to have male friends unless he has chosen them, because it will lead to impure thoughts and actions. 

In the last year I have had 4 miscarriages. They all happened before 81 days so sex was still required, unlike the 40(?) days or when the postnatal bleeding stopped after childbirth. My husband has been saying that if I cannot give him another child (a son) he will go elsewhere. 

I could probably go on.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

ellsie said:


> I don't know if there is anything I can/should do about it. I chose to marry him. I agreed to marry him. I have innocent kids who are dependent on a family. From what I have read I could divorce him on grounds of unreasonable behaviour, not adultery because I continue living with him. I don't think I could do it. There is too much at risk. As long as I am making him happy he will stay with me and our kids are ok. I don't trust him to parent them alone. I want them to be ok and right now I'm the main caregiver. If he takes them out of the country back to his native country I could easily never see them again.


OMG woman listen to what you are saying... basically you are staying and continue to allow him abuse you because (you fear) he holds your children as hostages.

On a more general note, this whole thing reminds me why I am not a great fan of religion. Islam, nor any other religion, is an excuse for being a jerk. Men are good or bad and will treat others accordingly. Problem is, if they are bad and religious, they will cherry pick in their religion to justify bad behaviour, making it all the harder to reason with.

Anyway, OP, get out of there fast and go for full custody... otherwise your son will also grow up to be an abusing jerk and your daughter will also be abused in the same or worse manner.


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## Celtic (Apr 7, 2017)

OP this sounds a lot more like abuse than just 'cultural differences' to me. 

One question to ask is can you ever see your marriage getting better to the point where you and he are happy again? It really doesn't sound like the case so now would be the time to leave before things get even worse. You've done all you can, at this stage he seems to be using his religion as a mask for some truly spiteful behaviour and that's not right at all.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I was born in the Middle East as an ex-pat (British Army).

I know the cultures there extremely well. Of all the middle easterners, Saudis and the gulf/desert Arabs are true Arabs and many of the Islamic customs that you see now are actually Arab customs and behaviours. I say this because other countries only spoke Arabic after being conquered by Arabs who had nothing to lose (nomads) and everything to gain and were raiding groups of bandits. For example, modern day Iraq spoke Akkadian languages like Babylonian and Assyrian, Syria spoke Syriac and Aramaic, Lebanon spoke Phoenecian, Palestine spoke Hebrew and Aramaic etc etc. Arabic was invented by the nomadic tribes (like the Bedouin). All these are Semites and the languages sound the same but are different as are the cultures. By the way, Iranians, Afghans, (some) Indians, Pakistanis etc are not Semitic but follow Islam when it was brought into their countries. They are Indo-Aryans and have a different culture.

Saudis marry Afghans for their looks (the Afghans are known to be good looking) not because of cultural similarities.

And the word Arab means nomad (the word for four is Arba and anything with four limbs that moves around, theoretically is an Arab - taxis with four wheels are called Arabanas).

Now for what I need to say: 

Most (not some like Ele says) Arabs behave this way (remember my definition of Arab). Many of the other Islamic Middle Easterners (Muslims) also behave this way. No matter where they were educated. The behaviour normally manifests itself after marriage particularly when one of the following occurs - a parent dies or a baby is born. That is when the need to implement the "old" ways raises its head. This is when an Arab man has every intention at the start of behaving Western when marrying a Western girl.

In your case, he had no intention of ever abandoning this behaviour (because he is Saudi). He most certainly lied to you and deceived you. He got residency in the UK as a result. And it will get worse when your kids are older - by then they will have been slightly brain-washed into believing that this is the right way and will be forced into marriages too that are not good for them.

The good news is that you have the power at the moment - not him. He will have almost certainly worked hard to make you as dependent on him as possible. He will have introduced you to some fake idea of living lavishly yet as a slave. And you might believe that without him you will have no money etc etc.

The worst thing that you can do is to believe this and rely on it. You need to start distancing yourself from him and his behaviour. You need to focus on educating your kids (especially the girls) never to accept any of this [email protected] and make them fiercely independent. You need to show them how to be strong good people. And NEVER allow him to be alone with them or take them anywhere alone - it doesn't take much for him to get them out of the country if he has possession of their passports (never give him this and even take advice on how to prevent this) - the UK is very aware of this problem and there is a lot of advice available to help you.

You need to get away from this man asap. Start putting money aside and saving up for the break up. He is evil and there is no reason to sacrifice the rest of your life (and more importantly the lives of your kids) due to one mistake you made in marrying him.

Start getting help, protecting yourself and your kids and make a move as soon as possible.

Take care.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Aside from extricating myself from this POS, I'd get on birth control immediately since you still allow yourself to be touched by this pig.

There's a reason I avoided middle eastern men when I was dating. This is one of them.


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## ellsie (May 19, 2017)

He believes that if I disobey him he is allowed to hit me as long as it doesn’t injure me. My husbands parents saw a bruise on me once. His mum said he isn’t allowed to hit hard enough to leave a bruise, only enough for me to feel it. His dad said it needs to be inconspicuous. As long as I do what I’m suppose to it’s fine. He doesn’t go to physical discipline immediately. He first reminds me of my role and duties, and his rights. If he still thinks I’m disobeying him he won’t give me any attention and I sleep on the floor. Physical discipline is his last resort when I don’t behave. With each child he becomes more strict with me, not so much them - yet.

Before we married and had kids we agreed that we were not going to raise our children in a specific religion. That they would be taught about religion and would see it through my husband and his family but would not be forced to practise. That went out the window and he does make our two oldest participate fully. I hate it. 

My husband won’t let me use birth control. He said it is allowed but only if he gives me permission - and he won’t until I give him a son. For a year he thought I was secretly taking birth control pills because it took me 27 months to conceive. I meant nothing to him until I conceived. I couldn’t go anywhere, had to quit working, had no privileges, had no privacy, sex was solely to procreate, no affection. I did my duties and was otherwise useless. He threatened that if I didn’t get pregnant by the end of the year he would find another woman to create a family with him and I would be worthless but still his. As of right now I have had 4 miscarriages in 16 months. He’s starting to get mad again. 

My husband has our kids passports, and mine. He uses it against me. I could maybe have them cancelled if I can report them as stolen or lost. He may easily find out. He completely control the finances. If I have to go to the store I am not allowed to take the children so I have to come back and will hurry back. He looks at every receipt after purchases. I can’t leave. As long as I stay we are comfortable, in a sense, and he takes care of us. 

If he would go back to the man that I married, or even somewhat resemble that man, maybe our marriage and family would be ok. If he would stop controlling everything and intimidating me. If he would go back to our original agreement of not forcing religion on me or our kids. 

Maybe I’m overreacting and being stupid. If you marry a different culture then you need to respect that culture. This is what I agreed to, whether I knew it or not. Had I done more research and been more observant maybe I wouldn’t have been so naive. When I married him I, quite literally, agreed to this. I'm just being stupid and wasting people's time.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

rsexton said:


> Hitting you is a big no no and is not tolerated in islam.


What? A Muslim husband hitting his wife (Muslim or not) is very common. Muslim men often treat their women like animals. Islamic culture almost prides itself on inequality between man and woman.

Fortunate for you if your marriage has been free from physical abuse, after marrying Muslim.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ellsie said:


> He believes that if I disobey him he is allowed to hit me as long as it doesn’t injure me. My husbands parents saw a bruise on me once. His mum said he isn’t allowed to hit hard enough to leave a bruise, only enough for me to feel it. His dad said it needs to be inconspicuous. As long as I do what I’m suppose to it’s fine. He doesn’t go to physical discipline immediately. He first reminds me of my role and duties, and his rights. If he still thinks I’m disobeying him he won’t give me any attention and I sleep on the floor. Physical discipline is his last resort when I don’t behave. With each child he becomes more strict with me, not so much them - yet.


Yes, the Quran gives men the right to beat their wives if they do not obey. It is generally accepted that if he does not leave bruises and broken bones, it’s ok. Though when it comes to the law in most Muslim countries, a woman has to be beaten to near death before anyone will intervene.


_
Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.



Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

https://quran.com/4/34​_
You made the mistake of not finding out about his culture/religion before you married him. But you live in the UK so you do not have to put up with this. You have the legal rights to get out of this marriage.

You can also take legal steps to prevent him from taking your children out of the UK. Now he can always use false documents to get them out. But if he grew up in the UK, he may not want to leave.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ellsie said:


> Before we married and had kids we agreed that we were not going to raise our children in a specific religion. That they would be taught about religion and would see it through my husband and his family but would not be forced to practise. That went out the window and he does make our two oldest participate fully. I hate it.
> 
> My husband won’t let me use birth control. He said it is allowed but only if he gives me permission - and he won’t until I give him a son. For a year he thought I was secretly taking birth control pills because it took me 27 months to conceive. I meant nothing to him until I conceived. I couldn’t go anywhere, had to quit working, had no privileges, had no privacy, sex was solely to procreate, no affection. I did my duties and was otherwise useless. He threatened that if I didn’t get pregnant by the end of the year he would find another woman to create a family with him and I would be worthless but still his. As of right now I have had 4 miscarriages in 16 months. He’s starting to get mad again.
> 
> ...


You are wrong that you cannot leave. There are people who will help you leave. You just need to reach out to them. You are so beaten down emotionally that you don’t see the path out of this marriage. But it is there. 
What kind of work do you do? I’m asking because I’m trying to think of something that you can do at work that will let someone know that you need help and you can get that help.

You have had a lot of miscarriages. Could you tell him that you need to see a doctor? Then when you are at the doctor’s you can tell them that he is basically holding you hostage and is both physically and emotionally abusive. They will call the police, social workers and get you help.

He tells you that if you do not produce a son that he will get another wife and then you will still be his but you will be useless. Why do you believe this nonsense? If he gets another wife, you divorce him. I have to be honest, if he gets another wife, it might be the best thing for you. He will be spending a lot of time at her place and not paying much attention to you. So, you will be even more capable of leaving him.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

ellsie said:


> My husband and I have been married for 6 years. I met my husband in year 9. He is originally from Saudi Arabia (mum from Afghanistan) but moved to the UK when he was 7. (And we have stayed in the UK. Travelled back once but live here.)
> 
> We were friends throughout secondary but we didn't date because his family was against him dating a "white non-religious mutt". I met his family a few times (introduced as a friend) and I was a bit intimidated by the culture differences. He was a really great friend and guy. We started dating at 19. He was an amazing boyfriend. Incredibly sweet, caring, there was no jealousy, we went out on dates often and did a variety of things, travelled, my friends loved him, he was always doing romantic notions. His family was not supportive, because I am non-religious and he was not allowed to marry me. They also said I would be a bad wife. My family liked him but was not supportive for similar reasons, cultural differences and worries and didn’t want me to marry him. I loved him, he was an amazing partner and we had an us against the world complex. He was perfect and everything I wanted, I thought I was so lucky.
> 
> ...


I saw a lot of this growing up, you did not sign up for it as you put here *we are 6 years into our marriage and he has done a total 180 from the man I married. * he is not the same man you married and you are not respected or loved, you are a possession and nothing more that is how it works in those cultures, sounds like you have been brain washed into believing he does not know he is doing wrong!!!! He knows he just doesn't care as you are not an equal.

Cultural differences are an excuse you are making to yourself, sure they exist in food choices, holidays you celebrate, how the children are raised and peoples position and expectations in the family but it is not a hard and fast rule, what you are experiencing is Physical abuse, mental abuse, marital rape and adultery.

I would take the threats very serious seen this happen many times also you need to make a plan, get cash together(sell items he wont notice missing) find legal support, make a list of all assets and all your rights and when the time is right leave, start Divorce and report threats to Law enforcement to ensure they are aware and you are protected.

This is no life to live and if you were my Daughter your POS husband would be in a world of pain and terrified to look at you again.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

ellsie said:


> He believes that if I disobey him he is allowed to hit me as long as it doesn’t injure me. My husbands parents saw a bruise on me once. His mum said he isn’t allowed to hit hard enough to leave a bruise, only enough for me to feel it. His dad said it needs to be inconspicuous. As long as I do what I’m suppose to it’s fine. He doesn’t go to physical discipline immediately. He first reminds me of my role and duties, and his rights. If he still thinks I’m disobeying him he won’t give me any attention and I sleep on the floor. Physical discipline is his last resort when I don’t behave. With each child he becomes more strict with me, not so much them - yet.
> 
> Before we married and had kids we agreed that we were not going to raise our children in a specific religion. That they would be taught about religion and would see it through my husband and his family but would not be forced to practise. That went out the window and he does make our two oldest participate fully. I hate it.
> 
> ...


Way too much he believes they believe, who gives a crap what he believes, him and his family sound like POC.

You are in the UK which is where I grew up and I lived in a town with a very large percentage of Muslims, they always pick and choose what rules they want to follow and bend them at will, you did not need to do more research as your Husband was living a western lifestyle when you dated, the UK actually still has a state religion and it is Christianity, you live in the UK and are not a practicing or converted Muslim so you did not agree to this, no one agrees to give up there free will, safety and life to be abused, physically, emotionally, mentally and sexually. It is your Husband who is Naive to believe that is acceptable in the UK. 

Trust me if i went to Saudi Arabia and made bacon sandwiches on a street corner while serving alcohol and in the company of a stripper wearing nothing but a thong no one would accept or care about my cultural differences because that's just how I am, You respect the culture of the country you are in.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

ellsie said:


> Maybe I’m overreacting and being stupid. If you marry a different culture then you need to respect that culture. This is what I agreed to, whether I knew it or not. Had I done more research and been more observant maybe I wouldn’t have been so naive. When I married him I, quite literally, agreed to this. I'm just being stupid and wasting people's time.


Find a place to helps abused women, then pack your bags and get out of there with your kids. If you don't care enough about yourself, then at least do it for your children.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You can certainly leave and there is much help available. You can have him put in jail for "hitting" you. Apart from it being a cowardly thing to do, it is illegal.

Do you mind sharing where in the UK you live - is it in a predominantly Muslim area ? You can buy or get on prescription contraception. He would never know you are taking it. You need to report him to the police. He will be arrested and also forced to stay away from you and the home while still having to make child and support payments.

I cannot believe that you don't understand the there is this protection readily available for you. Do you also mind sharing your own ethnic roots as this may have something to do with putting up with this [email protected]


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

This happens all the time and sadly you have also fallen for the lies. 

You are married to a controlling violent rapist, also an adulterer, is that the home you want your children to grow up in? Do you want your son to end up like him?To think its ok to rape and beat his wife? Your daughter to have to put up with being raped and hit by her future husband? You need to get away. There are organisations set up in the UK to help women in your position, do some research. 

I would also get some good legal advice for women in your position. Also look up battered women's refuge's, you may well need them.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

ellsie said:


> I should have listened to my parents when they told me not marry him. They didn't think - or didn't express - that it would turn out like this but they thought we would struggle too much. Now my mum isn't here and I have no one to lean on. This last year has been horrible with my mum passing and marriage problems. I don't have any friends that I can talk to about this. My husband only lets me have friends that he approves of. They are all more his friends than mine. He checks my phone every day to see who I call or message and what I search for. I can make calls at work and it's private but I work with a friend, who is married to my a friend of my husband. I don't work directly with her.
> 
> He has said that he doesn't want our children to be corrupted and wants to be firmer to put good values in them before they are corrupted. He has expressed interest in moving back to Saudi Arabia but I'm not onboard with that and never will be. He has threatened that if I divorce him he will take our kids back and I won't see them again. That could be bluff, but I don't want to risk it. He doesn't think he is doing anything wrong. That makes it hard for me to say that he is doing anything wrong. Who am I to say that his beliefs are wrong... I married into it.
> 
> He does pick and choose what rules he follows. I have no religion and have not converted, he wasn't suppose to marry me. I try to learn about his beliefs but I find it overwhelming and find contradicting information. My husband has never encouraged me to learn about it, but rather go along with it and "learn along the way" as he puts it.


OP There are people who can help you. You MUST get out of this, for your and your children's sake.

There is help. If you want, I am sure that some of the UK members could offer you advice and numbers of shelters. Some of the people like @EleGirl have extensive experience with Islam, and with abusive husbands. 

Will your parents take you in?


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

manfromlamancha said:


> You can certainly leave and there is much help available. You can have him put in jail for "hitting" you. Apart from it being a cowardly thing to do, it is illegal.
> 
> Do you mind sharing where in the UK you live - is it in a predominantly Muslim area ? You can buy or get on prescription contraception. He would never know you are taking it. You need to report him to the police. He will be arrested and also forced to stay away from you and the home while still having to make child and support payments.
> 
> I cannot believe that you don't understand the there is this protection readily available for you. Do you also mind sharing your own ethnic roots as this may have something to do with putting up with this [email protected]


To be clear, she should not rely on the police for help. Rotherham has displayed exactly what the police will do. They may just send her back to her H, and ignore her plight, for fear of being called racist. If you're not familiar with this problem, google it. 

There are other solutions. The police should be contacted after she has already escaped, and they can't screw her over.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

ellsie said:


> I don't know if there is anything I can/should do about it. I chose to marry him. I agreed to marry him. I have innocent kids who are dependent on a family. From what I have read I could divorce him on grounds of unreasonable behaviour, not adultery because I continue living with him. I don't think I could do it. There is too much at risk. As long as I am making him happy he will stay with me and our kids are ok. I don't trust him to parent them alone. I want them to be ok and right now I'm the main caregiver. If he takes them out of the country back to his native country I could easily never see them again.


Aside from the other excellent advice regarding Abuse hotline and seeing a solicitor you need to find your children's passports and hide them somewhere.

I don't know who gave you the idea that he is free to go with other women during your period but that is total BS and is clearly adultery.

The laws of marriage in Islam are all but irrelevant in your case as you are under UK law and not Islamic law.

Whatever you do don't be tempted to go to Saudi. Once you go there voluntarily there is nothing the UK can do to help you.

Good luck.


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## ellsie (May 19, 2017)

Making this forum post was very disrespectful towards my husband. I need him. I love him. He isn’t perfect but he takes care of me and loves me. He gave me my kids. I shouldn’t have posted this. It’s disrespectful and will encourage incorrect thoughts about Islam. I’m a white woman raised non-religious, I can’t comprehend religion or culture when I have none. He doesn’t know about this and he won’t know about it, but it was wrong to do because I feel the need to hide it from him. Anything that I feel I need to keep hidden from my husband I cannot do. I have to make it up to him. 

If I try to put myself in a position to understand and agree with his beliefs and views then life is easier. If I go along with it long enough it will be more normal to me. As long as I stay in that mentality, it is easier to keep him content. If he’s happy he allows me more freedom and affection. 

I don’t want to say exactly where but I live in England in a predominantly Muslim area. I often feel very out of place. I need to follow suit and act more appropriately. I have the people around me to learn from. 

He doesn’t beat (strike repeatedly and violently to injure) me anymore. If he does hit me, and it’s not hard or abusive, I deserve it. He is not a rapist , we are married and sexual satisfaction is his right. When I married him I agreed to that. If I can give him a son and follow his commands he will be happy with me. It is for the best, he knows better than I do. I am not being a good wife and that is wrong of me.

I am a European mutt (Swiss, French, Irish, Canadian; some combo of Czech, Slovak, German, Polish) raised without religion or culture. My kids will grow up with culture and religion and fair better than I have. My husband is looking out for their best interests and I should be thankful for that. 

Coming to this website and posting this was disrespectful and wrong of me. I wasted your time and I’m sorry. This never should have been discussed outside of my marriage.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

About half of my wife's family are Muslims, from a rather obscure Central Asian​ country not exactly known for its liberal views towards women. Nearly every action your husband has taken against you is illegal there. 

It will only get better for you if you convince yourself he's a good father and husband and he does it all​ for your benefit. Then you'll check out of life altogether, become an empty shell, and meekly follow the party line.

You'll likely convert to his religion and move back, and deal with him bringing another woman home, legally. 

I don't need to continue with the mind movie. To echo the other poster's sentiment, I have young daughters of marrying age. If anyone as much as laid a finger on them he would regret it really quickly. 

The more you stay the deeper the hole you dig yourself in.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ellsie said:


> Making this forum post was very disrespectful towards my husband. I need him. I love him. He isn’t perfect but he takes care of me and loves me. He gave me my kids. I shouldn’t have posted this. It’s disrespectful and will encourage incorrect thoughts about Islam. I’m a white woman raised non-religious, I can’t comprehend religion or culture when I have none. He doesn’t know about this and he won’t know about it, but it was wrong to do because I feel the need to hide it from him. Anything that I feel I need to keep hidden from my husband I cannot do. I have to make it up to him.
> 
> If I try to put myself in a position to understand and agree with his beliefs and views then life is easier. If I go along with it long enough it will be more normal to me. As long as I stay in that mentality, it is easier to keep him content. If he’s happy he allows me more freedom and affection.
> 
> ...


Did he find this and force you to write the above nonsense?

You are not a mutt. What horrible, denigrating way for him to refer to you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Did he find this and force you to write the above nonsense?
> 
> You are not a mutt. What horrible, denigrating way for him to refer to you.


You are the victim of abuse, Islam does not tell husbands to abuse their wives and do what he is doing.
I live in a country where Islam is the dominant religion. Women are free to dress the way they choose (within reason,some don't even wear head scarves), have jobs, go out together (without men) etc. The form of Islam your H is now trying to impose on you is wahabbism, (a very strict and unforgiving ritualistic Islam).

You really need help, you are slowly being brainwashed into believing that what is happening to you is justified, no it is not. At least if you don't want to do something for yourself, do you think it is right that your daughters will be treated like this. They will never be fully accepted because they are half mutts too.

You are in the UK, there are lots of organisations that will help you get away and start afresh from this man.
it is appalling that a man brought up in the UK could ever act like this towards his wife and impose these ridiculous rules when he himself is breaking every one of them. 

If he is reading this, he should be ashamed of himself, abusing somebody in the name of religion. However, that is exactly how they operate.

Incidentally you cannot 'give' your H a son. Scientifically, he is the one who decides the gender of the baby with his sperm. You only carry X chromosomes, he carries in his sperm either X or Y and it will be the latter that determines the gender of the baby. So if you cannot 'give' him a boy, it is totally on him not you. I bet he doesn't know that and blames you for the genders of his children.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does your husband take the money that you earn? It sounds like he does from what you have said.

Do you know that is not allowed in Islam? In Islam what a woman inherits and earns is her own money. Her husband is not supposed to touch it. I'll bet there is a good reason that he does not want to you do a fast study of Islam. Because if you did, you would find out that what he is telling you is not supported by Islam. For example this idea that he has complete control over what you do and where you go. That does not exist in the Qur'an and religious writings. That's the culture in his repressive country of origin. It has nothing to do with Islam.

Women in Islam have been given more financial security, as compared to the men.* They are entitled to receive marital gifts, to keep present and future properties and income for their own security. No married woman is required to spend a penny from her property and income on the household. She is entitled to full financial support during marriage and during her 'Iddah (waiting period after divorce) in case of divorce- and if she has children, she is also entitled for child support.

*No Financial Responsibility:*

A woman in Islam does not shoulder any financial obligations; it is the man who shoulders this responsibility in the family. It is* the duty of the father or the brother, before she is* married to look after her lodging, boarding, clothing and* financial aspects, and*it becomes the duty of her husband or her son, after she is married.

If a Woman works, which she is not forced to – all earnings she makes are absolutely her property.**She is not obliged to spend from it on the household, unless she wants to do so with her free will. Irrespective how rich the wife is, the duty to give lodging, boarding, clothing and look after the financial aspects of the wife remains that of the husband.

Did your husband give you a bride gift when you married? The amount given depends on the wealth of his family: $40K, $100k... for the very wealthy it can be in the millions. I'll bet he forgot to give you that. He still owes it to you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahr


Financial Rights of Women

Her property as a Wife:*

Since its advent, Islam has granted married women the independent personality. In Islam, the bride and her family are under no obligation whatsoever to present a gift to the groom. It is the groom who must present the bride with a marriage gift. This gift is considered her property and neither the groom nor the bride's family have any share in or control over it. The bride retains her marriage gifts even if she is later divorced. The husband is not allowed any share in his wife's property except what she offers him with her free consent. The Quran has stated the Islamic position on this issue quite clearly in the verse (which means): "And give the women [upon marriage] their [bridal] gifts graciously. But if they give up willingly to you anything of it, then take it in satisfaction and ease" [Quran 4:4] 
*
The wife's property and earnings are under her full control and for her use alone since her, and the children's, maintenance is her husband's responsibility. No matter how rich the wife might be, she is not obliged to act as a co-provider for the family unless she herself voluntarily chooses to do so. Spouses do inherit from one another. Moreover, a married woman in Islam retains her independent legal personality and her family name.

Read more at this link: Financial Rights of Women


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

ellsie said:


> Making this forum post was very disrespectful towards my husband. I need him. I love him. He isn’t perfect but he takes care of me and loves me. He gave me my kids. I shouldn’t have posted this. It’s disrespectful and will encourage incorrect thoughts about Islam. I’m a white woman raised non-religious, I can’t comprehend religion or culture when I have none. He doesn’t know about this and he won’t know about it, but it was wrong to do because I feel the need to hide it from him. Anything that I feel I need to keep hidden from my husband I cannot do. I have to make it up to him.
> 
> If I try to put myself in a position to understand and agree with his beliefs and views then life is easier. If I go along with it long enough it will be more normal to me. As long as I stay in that mentality, it is easier to keep him content. If he’s happy he allows me more freedom and affection.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry your husband found out you were posting and is now posting for you. If you do come back please leave and disappear with the kids as soon as possible.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

By the way, if he is calling you a European mutt.... then what is he doing having children with you. Now his children are half European mutt.

The fact that he is willing to have his children be 50% whatever you are shows that he really does not have a problem with your genetic makeup. 


He only calls you that as yet another way to insult you and emotionally abuse you. That is probably how you parents have been referring to you and other Europeans from the time he was young. He is apparently very racist.

I'll bet that if he were to ever run his own DNA he would find out that he's a "mutt" too as there are very few humans on earth today that carry only the DNA of the area where they were born.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Actually I do 😎. But I'm from a European country that everyone likes to invade but doesn't bother mixing with the locals.

The op needs to start networking with the appropriate social services agencies, law enforcement, and her own relatives. Make an exit plan and carry it out. 

The more she stays the harder it is going to be.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Your last post certainly seems to have been written by your husband. He is a coward. He is not supposed to lay a finger on you. You may be a European mutt but so are we all. And more importantly you are our European mutt whereas he is some one who came here. OP if you really get to see this - get help! Asap! Get to a shelter.


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## AlastairfromSupernatural (May 20, 2017)

You need to leave that relationship now. You need to get your kids out of there now, while you still can. I guess I am "Islamophobic," but generally abuse happens more/or is more likely to occur in Islamic relationships than in modern Christian or atheistic relationships.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> To be clear, she should not rely on the police for help. Rotherham has displayed exactly what the police will do. They may just send her back to her H, and ignore her plight, for fear of being called racist. If you're not familiar with this problem, google it.
> 
> There are other solutions. The police should be contacted after she has already escaped, and they can't screw her over.


The police will help because she is being raped and abused. They wont screw her over.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ellsie said:


> Making this forum post was very disrespectful towards my husband. I need him. I love him. He isn’t perfect but he takes care of me and loves me. He gave me my kids. I shouldn’t have posted this. It’s disrespectful and will encourage incorrect thoughts about Islam. I’m a white woman raised non-religious, I can’t comprehend religion or culture when I have none. He doesn’t know about this and he won’t know about it, but it was wrong to do because I feel the need to hide it from him. Anything that I feel I need to keep hidden from my husband I cannot do. I have to make it up to him.
> 
> If I try to put myself in a position to understand and agree with his beliefs and views then life is easier. If I go along with it long enough it will be more normal to me. As long as I stay in that mentality, it is easier to keep him content. If he’s happy he allows me more freedom and affection.
> 
> ...


Whoever wrote this or made you write this is completely sick. He is an abusive adulterous rapist. I hope that you manage to get away from this awful man. I am a Christian and women in my faith are treated with love and respect.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

ellsie said:


> Making this forum post was very disrespectful towards my husband. I need him. I love him. He isn’t perfect but he takes care of me and loves me. He gave me my kids. I shouldn’t have posted this. It’s disrespectful and will encourage incorrect thoughts about Islam. I’m a white woman raised non-religious, I can’t comprehend religion or culture when I have none. He doesn’t know about this and he won’t know about it, but it was wrong to do because I feel the need to hide it from him. Anything that I feel I need to keep hidden from my husband I cannot do. I have to make it up to him.
> 
> If I try to put myself in a position to understand and agree with his beliefs and views then life is easier. If I go along with it long enough it will be more normal to me. As long as I stay in that mentality, it is easier to keep him content. If he’s happy he allows me more freedom and affection.
> 
> ...


Take this page you wrote and I quoted, print it out, and show it to your father. See what he says. There are solutions to your problem.I hope you find a way out of this. That you get your kids out of it. English culture is a superior culture to the filth that is Islam and the unnoticeable blip that is Saudi Arabia.

Ellsie, you hail from Great Britain, the longest standing existing government and the most influential nation in the history of man. There was a time, not so long ago, that the Sun itself never set upon your people. A time when your tiny island fought and succeeded at ending the slave trade across the entire world. A time when you founded the Enlightenment and fostered a new era of freedom for mankind. A time when you rose up to the challenge and stood alone against the might of the Nazi war machine in WW2!

Great Britain, an Empire so great that even America does not challenge its size today. That is not ancient history. Your legacy, even in your Empire's twilight today, lives on through your nation's colony, the United States, the inheritor of your position as the greatest power of the world.

Yours is the people of Richard the Lionheart. Edward the Confessor. William the Conqueror. Henry V. Queen Victoria. Your people are outshined by none, even now. Your language, the English language, is the most widely spoken language in the entire world, completely due to your people, your little island. 

What does Saudi Arabia's legacy hold? Sand and bestiality!?

Close your eyes Ellsie, and dig deep. Dig deep into your soul, reach down into the soil your forefathers tilled, bled, and died for, and feel the history that flows beneath your feet and in the air you breathe. A strength that flows through your veins and the veins of your children. Let that strength fill you. Do not submit, for submission is not the way of the British. You are a daughter of Runymede, and your forefathers did not submit there, but forged the Magna Carta, the Great Charter. Rise up and fulfill their legacy. Protect your children and yourself.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Take this page you wrote and I quoted, print it out, and show it to your father. See what he says. There are solutions to your problem.I hope you find a way out of this. That you get your kids out of it. English culture is a superior culture to the filth that is Islam and the unnoticeable blip that is Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Ellsie, you hail from Great Britain, the longest standing existing government and the most influential nation in the history of man. There was a time, not so long ago, that the Sun itself never set upon your people. A time when your tiny island fought and succeeded at ending the slave trade across the entire world. A time when you founded the Enlightenment and fostered a new era of freedom for mankind. A time when you rose up to the challenge and stood alone against the might of the Nazi war machine in WW2!
> 
> ...


Wow, if I wasn't already proud to be British I would be after that. I hope that the op gets to read it but I suspect she won't be allowed to. I feel for her and her children so much.:frown2:


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Troll thread, locked.


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