# The Weeds of Codependence



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Common themes in many threads....

"I'll never be able to trust anyone else ever again... after what this person did to me.... "

"I'm in a new relationship, but I'm not certain whether I should invest in it or not..."

I read these things and it worries me.

Many of us are working through codependent dysfunctional behavior. We've disciplined ourselves to stay @50k and observe the (often abusive) behavior of our (sometimes former) partners. We observe their behavior and our reactions. We choose our response. And, we start feeling better.

Am I really to believe that if we think we've found the "right" person that we're going to drop from 50k back into the weeds and become (co)dependent on this new person for our happiness?

Does anyone really think this should be the goal?

If so, why?


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Am I really to believe that if we think we've found the "right" person that we're going to drop from 50k back into the weeds and become (co)dependent on this new person for our happiness?
> 
> Does anyone really think this should be the goal?
> 
> If so, why?


Chip, 

It's going to take me some heavy practicing. 

I know that once I get comfortable w/ Mrs. RG 2.0 I am going to be susceptible to descending under 50K.

It's why I am paying close attention to my buddies Ceegee and zillard to see how they're managing w/ S and Tiger.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

This: "We *choose *our response. And, we start feeling better"

This is going to sound stupid, but if it maybe helps someone, then so be it.

How to get control of your thoughts and feelings:

-by not trying to wrench control. You can't control when you fall asleep. Try and you'll stay awake - sleep is under the control of the subconscious, just as feelings and the semi-logical 'reflex' dialogues in your mind are.

They disappear by becoming more aware of yourself.

By just watching and becoming aware of it all till they fade away by themselves, concentrate on the air coming in and out of your lungs...

Allow yourself to feel what you are feeling, but recognise it as something that happens to your body, that it's chemicals and reflex-thoughts, and not the real permanent 'you'...

be aware of the fact that emotions come and go, that the real you is not your temporary feelings, or fleeting half-thoughts

You are not the dialogue going through your head and you can choose not to participate in unhelpful inner dialogues. 

You don't try to suppress, just let it carry on by itself without getting involved in the dialogue.

Like an advert on TV you say: that's interesting, but I'm not buying today.

Then all the negative feelings and thoughts float on by, like a cloud floats by...

_Suppressing _them is the road to disaster. They sink into your subconscious, they will affect your behaviour against your will - "why the heck did I react like that?" , transform into phobias "What am I afraid of?", make you ill "Why do I feel so low?" - signs your subconscious is in charge of you.

Recognise and allow yourself to consciously feel them, yet refuse to be drawn into them, and they pass. With practice you will focus more and more on the outside world ... and as you do, you are less often caught off guard, say the wrong thing, let your emotions get the better of you, you can control your body language naturally to make it fit your goals and not your immediate reactive feelings ... etc

That's my interpretation of 50 k - detachment, without suppression. Recognition of your temporary emotions, but being able to *choose *not to (re)act on them.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Today, 10:44 AM
Remove user from ignore listSandfly
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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ReGroup said:


> Chip,
> 
> It's going to take me some heavy practicing.
> 
> ...


The Tiger appears to be on message.

S worries me somewhat.


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## littlejaz (Oct 17, 2013)

What is 50K?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

littlejaz said:


> What is 50K?


It's using your mind to see yourself hovering above your current situation. You then observe what your partner does and says - and take note of the internal reactions/emotions that generates.

Instead of doing the "same old dance" time and again, this gives you the personal power to choose your battles - if any.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Common themes in many threads....
> 
> "I'll never be able to trust anyone else ever again... after what this person did to me.... "
> 
> ...


Why do these things worry *you*?

I think that a lot of co-dependent tendencies can be neutralized by watching actions and ignoring words (50K), and not depending on another person to be happy.

Be happy with yourself. Be happy with solitude. Don't let another person, or your relationships, define you.

Live in the present.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Why do these things worry *you*?
> 
> I think that a lot of co-dependent tendencies can be neutralized by watching actions and ignoring words (50K), and not depending on another person to be happy.
> 
> ...


It worries "me" because many good hearted folks seem to think that they still only need to find the "right person" before it's safe to jump in with blinders.

IMO, that will never be true.

That's never a safe thing to do as long as you believe that you are an ass and everyone else is one also.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

I agree.

Was just jazzing with ya

I don't believe in the "right" person, either. People are people.

It's our relationships with these people that matter. Which brings us to the crux of the matter.

Boundary setting. What are we ok with? 

and

How do we act (react) when someone obliterates one of our boundaries.

Co-dependents are terrible at setting boundaries.

It is definitely a mistake to think someone is the "right person" for us because we cannot set boundaries. Or because they overlook it when we overstep their boundaries.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Gosh.....
maybe that is why I am a recovering codependent...

I believe in true love. But I am learning to love myself and have always enjoyed solitude. Being alone does not bother me.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

I think once you learn how to do it it stays with you. It becomes second nature. It's not a choice anymore, you just find yourself doing it. 

We may not always like what we see and in that case may CHOOSE to ignore it but we know deep in our hearts what the truth is. 

If a problem is seen and not addressed then it's on us. We have no one to blame but ourselves.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

smallsteps said:


> I think once you learn how to do it it stays with you. It becomes second nature. It's not a choice anymore, you just find yourself doing it.
> 
> We may not always like what we see and in that case may CHOOSE to ignore it but we know deep in our hearts what the truth is.
> 
> If a problem is seen and not addressed then it's on us. We have no one to blame but ourselves.


Been quite a year, hasn't it?


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## Wanttoliveagain (Nov 2, 2013)

I think I've been seen as 'hard' by my H, because I'm not codependent. Also my alcoholic mother. I'm not mean, I just don't believe it's my duty to sugar-coat, lie, hide the truth when I do or don't want to do something.

But OTOH I did get very dependant on H for encouragement, and company when we lived far from family and I was SAHM. It may have been codependent.

Agreed, there is no 'right' person that we'll magically meld with and live happily ever after with fairy dust and pixie unicorns. Anyone want to have a beer and explain this to my H? or STBX when I wake up from denial considering how things are going?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Conrad said:


> Been quite a year, hasn't it?


Oh yes it has - quite an eye opening one to say the least. 

I've come a long way but I believe there is still more to learn.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ThreeStrikes said:


> I agree.
> 
> Was just jazzing with ya
> 
> ...


Your last sentence becomes most important after recovering from codependency. 

It's now harder to respect those who don't respect themselves. 

It's true there is no "right" person but there are right-er persons than others. In order to find out who they are you have to find out who you are. 

Enough cliches in there?


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

I think that the goal is to be inter-dependent rather than co-dependent. Why get married or be in a LTR if you don't want to share your life with someone else? 

The key is to find someone who is emotionally balanced, and who will not take advantage of your desire to please them. They should want to please you as well.

Your happiness should never completely depend on another person. If nothing else, one day they will die, and you need to go on with your life without them.

I do believe that choosing the right person is crucial. Not that there are "soul mates," or only one person for each of us, but that you choose someone who wants to meet your needs, as you want to meet theirs.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

skype said:


> I think that the goal is to be inter-dependent rather than co-dependent. Why get married or be in a LTR if you don't want to share your life with someone else?
> 
> The key is to find someone who is emotionally balanced, and who will not take advantage of your desire to please them. They should want to please you as well.
> 
> ...


There are many facets to attractiveness.

Someone who would take advantage of you if given the chance actually gives you the opportunity to love yourself enough not to let them.

And, guess what?

They "may" find that attractive.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

2ntnuf said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It's a tough concept for me to grasp when put this way, but it's true.


It's my story.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

Conrad said:


> There are many facets to attractiveness.
> 
> Someone who would take advantage of you if given the chance actually gives you the opportunity to love yourself enough not to let them.
> 
> ...


But do you find that attractive? You enjoy living with someone who tries to take advantage of you, who uses your kindness as a fitness test to prove that you can stand up to them?

I guess that everyone is different, and wants different things from their relationship. Wouldn't work for me.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

skype said:


> But do you find that attractive? You enjoy living with someone who tries to take advantage of you, who uses your kindness as a fitness test to prove that you can stand up to them?
> 
> I guess that everyone is different, and wants different things from their relationship. Wouldn't work for me.


He finds her attractive in other ways.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Ceegee said:


> He finds her attractive in other ways.


These are Racer's words, but they spoke to me. I'm sure you'll understand this Ceegee....

It’s hard to write this out. Because it’s describing the emotions I feel towards her. It’s easy as hell to write about and bash character traits, appearance, and factual descriptions. But I do struggle describing that emotional change she has in me just with her presence.

I know I can come here, get worked up, etc. But when I go home, and she walks in the door, the world is a little better for me. Real or illusion doesn’t really matter all that much. I just simply unexplainably feel better with her there. 

Do you remember when you first met your wife? That ‘wow’ feeling about her? Then that pull, that need to be with her because it was great. You met someone with such a similar wicked mind that they seem to share your thoughts; particularly the crap you really think but don’t say. Everything else just sort of becomes secondary or not as important as just sharing this moment with this beautiful woman. And you continue to have years of those wonderful moments that words fail to describe.

That’s what I still get. All the f’n time no matter what I seem to do or what she does. 

That pull toward her does play a part in (male attention). I’m am not the only one who feels this. A lot of guys want to be with her. Always have. It’s not just being attractive, it’s that she radiates ‘fun’, ‘cool’, etc. She will dominate a room. And she’s also successful in her career and (has an incredibly active mind)

It's always been this way.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

2ntnuf said:


> Yes, and not only that, but because he shows her that he does have and will take advantage of other opportunities, thereby showing courage and conviction, he becomes more attractive to, not just her, but others, as well. When others are looking at him as an attractive man, she, because of nature, wants to know what's so attractive and gets, just a little, protective and possessive of what is, "her's".
> 
> At least, that's my take.


Your take is spot on accurate.

The 180 for me is literal.

I went from the disrespected bottom of the pile to the pursued.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

This has been a year for me that has changed my life.
It's nice to come here and still see some threads talking about self awareness, boundaries, 50K, and reality.

Anyone else "find themselves" and look around to see that almost ALL the people in their lives are not self aware?
I know it's to be expected... and I'm suddenly meeting people that DO get these things (yea hoo)

But it's like the twilight zone.... where have I been for 30 years??? LOL!


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

It's certainly made talking to my mom friends difficult. I have one who keeps insisting that I'm not happy because of the way things are between me and H. I told her I am quite happy! But she just keeps going on about how it's impossible to be happy without a crazy in lust relationship with a man. Sigh... I just try to steer the conversation elsewhere now.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> This has been a year for me that has changed my life.
> It's nice to come here and still see some threads talking about self awareness, boundaries, 50K, and reality.
> 
> Anyone else "find themselves" and look around to see that almost ALL the people in their lives are not self aware?
> ...


Once you crack the code, it's tempting to become a hermit.

I wonder to the aware people drink as much - or more - than the unaware?


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Northern, I'm not able to filter myself very well in those situations. 
I love to respond with a "that's YOUR personal situation. That's perfectly okay. But it's not MY belief". Not sure they understand there can be more than one way to look at something... but I refuse to be bowled over anymore. I will stand up for what I believe in, no matter what. With kindness, if possible LOL

Means my friends will change. Goody!!


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Once you crack the code, it's tempting to become a hermit.
> 
> I wonder to the aware people drink as much - or more - than the unaware?


I have stopped drinking, even though it was minimal. I don't want to be numb... I love the energy I feel. 

The transition to new people in my life takes patience. But it is happening. 

I do realise that being in another head space attracts dysfunctional people.... so we put ourselves in a position of "keeping" ourselves dysfunctional. Gawd.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> Northern, I'm not able to filter myself very well in those situations.
> I love to respond with a "that's YOUR personal situation. That's perfectly okay. But it's not MY belief". Not sure they understand there can be more than one way to look at something... but I refuse to be bowled over anymore. I will stand up for what I believe in, no matter what. With kindness, if possible LOL
> 
> Means my friends will change. Goody!!


I think about the War Stories analogy often.

Let's just put it this way. I realize that my wife and I didn't create a stable home for her kids.

I find it interesting that "we" defined that goal after the bloodletting ended.

My daughter was there too.

But, when the recitation of sins begins, I will not take part in it - either as the dumper or the dumpee.

Dumping anger is not ok. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not anyday. And, that includes blame and all the bullshix rationalizations that go with it.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Conrad,
I think some people are "keyed in" to the mind mess. Meaning their mind controls them. Their brains are constantly rehashing things that happened, and imagining things for the future. Their minds demand that justice be served, punishment, revenge, "fix the past".

I believe all of this is related to judgment. Something didn't go along with their belief of "how" things should have gone.

From 50K, all you can offer is compassion or understanding. They are stuck in the mind warp of making their world behave according to their beliefs. No wonder people are so tired!

And you are totally right. Sinking to their level is not productive. It takes a lot of courage to go forward on your path, and be a loving and compassionate human being. No matter what other people do to you. 

I can't change the past, but I can be better today and tomorrow. That's all I can offer.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

deejov said:


> I think some people are "keyed in" to the mind mess. Meaning their mind controls them. *Their brains are constantly rehashing things that happened, and imagining things for the future. Their minds demand that justice be served, punishment, revenge, "fix the past".*


Which is why I emphasize _living in the present._

It's not easy. Especially when there are other people involved. LOL

Conrad and Mav have mentioned the 'hermit' life. The less people there are in your life, the easier it is to live in the present.

At least that's what I am experiencing now. Perhaps others manage it better than I do.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Which is why I emphasize _living in the present._
> 
> It's not easy. Especially when there are other people involved. LOL
> 
> ...


As soon as you decide to do something, you encounter the agenda of other people.

A young man died of a drug overdose recently. He wasn't my son-in-law, but he is the father of my grandson.

His father is a mensch. And, this was his only child.

I am going to the visitation. I was informed that some people (my stepchildren) at the visitation would not approve of me attending.

Tough toenails.

Time to grow up.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Which is why I emphasize _living in the present._
> 
> It's not easy. Especially when there are other people involved. LOL
> 
> ...


 I constantly tell myself "Attention. Here and Now". It's gotten MUCH better. Except now I notice other people doing it LOL
The right people in your life just naturally encourage the behavior. The keyed in ones drag you down with them.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

deejov said:


> I constantly tell myself "Attention. Here and Now". It's gotten MUCH better. Except now I notice other people doing it LOL
> The right people in your life just naturally encourage the behavior. The keyed in ones drag you down with them.


So easy to get sucked in when you pride yourself in fixing.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Conrad said:


> So easy to get sucked in when you pride yourself in fixing.


I'm lucky enough that there are enough objects in my life that need fixing that I can indulge this compulsion to my heart's content! 

Take it from Northernlights: when you feel the compulsion to fix, dive into your mending pile and start patching and darning. _That's_ a feeling of accomplishment!


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Strangely, this urge to"fix" for me is being replaced with a "let it flow" attitude. Across my entire life.
Acceptance of what is in front of me. 

I can't even describe how "freeing" this is. To just let things be. 
No fighting the universe anymore. It's like I took a blind leap. What I truly NEED is what is in front of me. Stop looking for it elsewhere.

I still "prefer" that certain things were different. But it's perfectly okay the way it is. It's a preference, not a need. If it's not in my control to change it, why oh why was I spending all my energy trying to change it (or them?). 

It's why the ocean is so moving for me. It's like I "am" the ocean, in it's whole. And I was trying to make ONE wave behave a certain way. There is no peace in that. I go deeper, and let it flow. It's only then that I see the WHOLE ocean! 

I didn't always understand 50K. For me, it wasn't going "external" but going internal. For me, it is truly that peace and happiness isn't "up" there or out there, but deep inside, of ME. I even get a tingling feeling in my stomach when I go "there". Thinking about the hurtful things people have done always gave me a feeling of pressure(?) that I felt in my chest. 

This is.... different.


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