# How do so many end up at this point?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Observing the pattern of the threads here and in other sections of this forum... it seems to me that people are undergoing some issues in terms of attraction/keeping the missus from fallin' out of love etc etc.

My own marriage is only young, yet I have to admit that sometimes reading about these issues do make me worry for the future. Just curious if I may just ask a few questions if you are willing to answer... for those of you in difficult situations. They aren't right/wrong btw...

- Do you flirt with her regularly?
- Do you ask for sex or simply seduce her without asking?
- Do you touch her non-sexually?
- Do you play games with her?
- Do you give her everything she asks for?
- Do you spend time with her regularly?
- Do you tease her? And/or surprise her?
- Are you controlling, or does she have a lot of space?
- Are you in a routine lifestyle?
- When was your last memorable time spent together?
- Do you fight often at all?
- Do you two communicate a lot?


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I will answer for my husband! 

- Do you flirt with her regularly? Yes
- Do you ask for sex or simply seduce her without asking? Seduce her all the time, do her at any time I want to, she loves it! 
- Do you touch her non-sexually? Yes!
- Do you play games with her? No! 
- Do you give her everything she asks for? She gets what she needs!
- Do you spend time with her regularly? A lot of time!
- Do you tease her? And/or surprise her? Always! Love to make her laugh! 
- Are you controlling, or does she have a lot of space? Not controlling, but with strict boundaries, she has a lot of space!
- Are you in a routine lifestyle? Yes! But enjoyable! 
- When was your last memorable time spent together? Everyday is almost the same! Peaceful and enjoyable! 
- Do you fight often at all? Had a small argument once last year! And the argument dissolved in one hour! 
- Do you two communicate a lot? A lot!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh thanks GP

I'm more curious about those in troubles however... therefore asking these questions to make sure I'm on the right track with my marriage. I've grown incredibly interdependent so far, and when you have more to lose, the more you fear. Makes it harder for me too as I don't believe in fate/hope/karma/gods as I'm a complete and utter realist.

I'm very curious whether someone could still be doing exactly what I'm doing, have a passionate marriage, yet suddenly... BOOM!!! =/

I definitely won't see that coming...


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Heh thanks GP
> 
> I'm more curious about those in troubles however... therefore asking these questions to make sure I'm on the right track with my marriage. I've grown incredibly interdependent so far, and when you have more to lose, the more you fear. Makes it harder for me too as I don't believe in fate/hope/karma/gods as I'm a complete and utter realist.
> 
> ...


The answer to your question is yes, you can be doing everything you're doing, have a passionate marriage and yet suddenly...BOOM!!!

I'm living proof; however, the boom turns out to be something underneath that was not addressed or seen for whatever reason. 

If you are a realist then you need to accept that certainty is foolish.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Aye that is true, but reducing the chances of the boom happening, and learning of ways to prevent it from happening... why not yes?

Same reason one keeps the door locked, or keep to the speed limit, or have the car stereo taken out and put in the box before leaving the car unattended etc.

Or maybe I've just been thinking too much... once again


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Of course, great advice but I think at times situations occur that you can't plan for.

Perhaps I'm not a preparer as my doors are usually unlocked, I often speed and I'd never think to do anything with my car stereo besides leave it in my unlocked car?

Durrrrr


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Rd, 

It is true, when we have something wonderful, we are even more concerned about it! We have more to lose. 

But sitting there worrying about unknown future is only bringing you unnecessary stress. It doesn't help you mentally at all. If we have something wonderful, just do our best to maintain what we are doing, do what works right for us, don't do anything to ruin it! 

Be more positive, don't let pessimistic attitude affect your life! 

It doesn't just BOOM, it starts with traits. Some people just ignore the traits and don't fix it right away!

For sure we will meet challenges and face difficulties, only naive people think gifts drop from the heaven, and they deserve whatever they want! 

Be cautious, but don't be paranoid!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh reminds me of a saying in the army really; preparation prevents piss poor performance... 

I guess I like to give my best, so if I fail I won't kick myself up my own butt too hard etc


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

If the divorce rate is 50/50, why don't you think that you are among the 50% who grow old together?


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

My point was that things happen, deaths in the family, financial crisis, environmental crisis, mid-life crisis etc. and it's impossible to know how we and our SO's will react.

There is a lot that is out of our control but not enjoying what you have now for fear of something you can't predict is pointless. Working on your relationship and doing things to keep you both close is obviously a good thing always.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Trenton said:


> My point was that things happen, deaths in the family, financial crisis, environmental crisis, mid-life crisis etc. and it's impossible to know how we and our SO's will react.
> 
> There is a lot that is out of our control but not enjoying what you have now for fear of something you can't predict is pointless. Working on your relationship and doing things to keep you both close is obviously a good thing always.


ZEN teaches life is always changing, we are not sure what's going to happen for the next moment. Natural disasters, diseases, and accidents happen often, they are not in our control! 

When those things happen, there is nothing we can do but accepting the fact, and figure out what we should do next! Many people sit their pointing fingers, blaming, or regretting doesn't help the situation, it doesn't make what happened disappear like magic.


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## bill2011 (Feb 5, 2011)

For me, I can answer yes to almost all of those, and before things got really bad I wasn't controlling at all. Since then I've been manning-up. My W would be a No on all fronts. This has cause a serious unbalance in our relationship. Since I'll pulled back we are in a dead status quo. Not sure where I will end up but it sure does seem like the end here.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Many years ago, Margaret Meade advocated marriages that were contractually limited to ten years. After than, if you both wanted to continue, you had to re-up. That's a pretty good idea. Marriage the way we view it, made sense in the middle ages when women had babies at 13 or 14 and if you lived to 30 you were old. You could be married for 14 years if you were a man, far less if you were one of the many women who died in childbirth. So it was easy back then to proclaim till death do you part. Now though that could be 50 or 60 years. No one is built to be compatible with anyone that long.


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## ddrh (Mar 20, 2011)

It takes TWO... and sometimes it seems as if the two are not exactly the same but opposites in some areas that can later bring conflict.

SELFISHNESS is a relationship killer... only thinking about yourself... and no regard for the other. You can try to always think about your spouse and love up on her, meet her needs... but for a successful relationship, she must be the same... thinking about you and your needs. 

Someone who is not so selfish may start to become selfish if they get tired of the other's selfishness... and down the drain it goes.

But I notice that some of the best relationships is when 
1) there's a lot in common between you (in regards to beliefs and how to treat each other)
2) there's GREAT COMMUNICATION! If one likes to talk and the other doesn't care... uh-oh! If one likes to talk and the other doesn't care BUT makes sure to still listen because they care for the other and to be unselfish... JOY!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Heh, at work... this new song "Impossible" by Shontelle really drives in deep, it's the fear I have, because these "impossible" breakups happened in the past before marriage, and the missus and I got very close to it last year.

Meh


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## kirby32 (Feb 21, 2011)

First to your questions, then some comments.

- Do you flirt with her regularly? Now, yes. The last few years not much.
- Do you ask for sex or simply seduce her without asking? I have asked directly and seduced more in the last few months then the last few years. 
- Do you touch her non-sexually? Yes, although she has never been as touchy towards me and I've resented it in the past.
- Do you play games with her? Not sure what kind of games you mean. We got new phones for Xmas and play scrabble. Funny how a little game like that keeps us going back and forth. Probably an area I could improve on in other aspects.
- Do you give her everything she asks for? I would, within reason. She doesn't ask for much and is pretty low maintenance. 
- Do you spend time with her regularly? We've always spent time as a family together. We are spending more time as just us recently.
- Do you tease her? And/or surprise her? Sometimes. Could do with more of this.
- Are you controlling, or does she have a lot of space? I am not controlling. She can have as much space as she wants, but doesnt ask for much. Occasional night out with the girls is about it. I get the feeling lately she could use more time away from the kids and household duties.
- Are you in a routine lifestyle? Yes. Finding ways to break out now, but it has been routine for years.
- When was your last memorable time spent together? We've been spending 2-3 nights a week sitting on the couch watching TV and talking lately. Honestly I like this. The old way was here in the LR and me in the basement doing our own thing. Not sure if that counts as memorable, but it's good time together.
- Do you fight often at all? We've never fought much. I have always bottled things up and when I did start a fight I would always stop when she started crying. We have more disagreements now that I speak my mind better, but still no fights.
- Do you two communicate a lot? We talk a lot, but most of it is family and kids stuff. Deep communication doesn't happen as often as it should.

My wife and I have been together for 18 years, married over half that. The first many years were great. Eventually things get into a familiar routine. House, kids, dog, work, schedules, family, etc. all blend together until it felt like I was running on cruise control. We were together, but the last few years it was more utility and co-worker than husband and wife. 

I've been trying to improve things the last few months and she has joined in making it a happy marriage again. I think it's mostly a matter of putting in the effort to keep yourself and your marriage fresh and exciting. If left to itself it will grow grey and dull.

Your questions reminded me of something I found this morning. I was looking though some boxes marked "Garage Sale". In one I found a book from when we were dating labelled "1001 ways to be romantic". She had gone through years ago and put paperclips on the ones she liked. I read through it and realized it had been a long time since either of us had done many of those things. I took the book out of the box and plan to go through it with her soon.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

- Do you flirt with her regularly?

yes

- Do you ask for sex or simply seduce her without asking?

Both. "You ready for a triple-O?" or other corny stuff like that

- Do you touch her non-sexually?

Yes

- Do you play games with her?

Yes

- Do you give her everything she asks for?

No

- Do you spend time with her regularly?

Yes

- Do you tease her? And/or surprise her?

Yes

- Are you controlling, or does she have a lot of space?

She has space. Don't know about "Lots of space"

- Are you in a routine lifestyle?

Yes. but we switch it up when we can

- When was your last memorable time spent together?

The effort she put into my birthday

- Do you fight often at all?

Not very much

- Do you two communicate a lot?

yes


I would say that a major cause of issues is that we begin to take each other for granted. I suggest that you try to keep your wife at the front of your mind and she you. Its when we let everything else grab our attention (including kids) that disconnect can creep in. What you see on this board a lot of times are the symptoms that arise from the weakening of the connection.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Runs,
You are a free man who acts like he has a life sentence in a maximum security prison. Kind of sad really, my guess is if you were single you would find plenty of women who would enjoy your company. Clearly you have "book smarts". And you seem quite nice. 





Runs like Dog said:


> Many years ago, Margaret Meade advocated marriages that were contractually limited to ten years. After than, if you both wanted to continue, you had to re-up. That's a pretty good idea. Marriage the way we view it, made sense in the middle ages when women had babies at 13 or 14 and if you lived to 30 you were old. You could be married for 14 years if you were a man, far less if you were one of the many women who died in childbirth. So it was easy back then to proclaim till death do you part. Now though that could be 50 or 60 years. No one is built to be compatible with anyone that long.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh I'm not all sweetness and light. Trust me. I am sarcastic, cynical with a dark dark DARK sense of humor. I am fairly rigid in the things I like and do. I don't suffer fools. And I am painfully direct with the people in my life. And by no means unwilling to cut them off at the knees forever. 

All I want from a woman is complete and total blind love. I give myself to you utterly and you me. And I will tend to you when we are old and sick and beyond. 

Doesn't seem like an extraordinary demand.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> Oh I'm not all sweetness and light. Trust me. I am sarcastic, cynical with a dark dark DARK sense of humor. I am fairly rigid in the things I like and do. I don't suffer fools. And I am painfully direct with the people in my life. And by no means unwilling to cut them off at the knees forever.
> 
> All I want from a woman is complete and total blind love. I give myself to you utterly and you me. And I will tend to you when we are old and sick and beyond.
> 
> Doesn't seem like an extraordinary demand.


Are you kidding?

"It depends"


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Giving her 'everything she asks for' is classic doormat behavior. Many/most women get turned OFF by that in a big way. 

Being "controlling" is a sign of fear. Another major turn off. 




RandomDude said:


> Observing the pattern of the threads here and in other sections of this forum... it seems to me that people are undergoing some issues in terms of attraction/keeping the missus from fallin' out of love etc etc.
> 
> My own marriage is only young, yet I have to admit that sometimes reading about these issues do make me worry for the future. Just curious if I may just ask a few questions if you are willing to answer... for those of you in difficult situations. They aren't right/wrong btw...
> 
> ...


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

- Do you flirt with her regularly? I did but usualy she just look bothered not amused not hot and bothered more you are annoying me go away 
- Do you ask for sex or simply seduce her without asking? done both no effect either way
- Do you touch her non-sexually? All the time
- Do you play games with her? Not board games or mind games but yes weboth like to play co-op video games together
- Do you give her everything she asks for? That she verbaly asks for yes
- Do you spend time with her regularly? Yes both as a family and when able to manage just us two whether it be a date night at home watching a movie eating popcorn or an actual date night
- Do you tease her? And/or surprise her? Yes
- Are you controlling, or does she have a lot of space? Tough one to answer she says I was controlling and in some ways she was right but it was more a refusal on her part to carry her half (see did you do everything she asks for) I have no problem with giving her space it was her need for secrecey with that space that caused the past six months and the D
- Are you in a routine lifestyle? Well going through a D now but yes we were
- When was your last memorable time spent together? Sitting down and playing lego star wars with her like well we weren't getting divorced, before that would have to say taking the children to the forest park to see the butterfly exhibit
- Do you fight often at all? We have heated discuscions a lot not quite fighting but more then just talking some mean things said but never with the intention (at least by myself) to be cruel
- Do you two communicate a lot? Use to but she stopped

*edit
How I see my DW treating me with the same questions

- Do you flirt with her regularly? Use to but its to easy now
- Do you ask for sex or simply seduce her without asking? never have never will
- Do you touch her non-sexually? All the time
- Do you play games with her? mind games aplenty with lots of no-win situations but yes weboth like to play co-op video games together
- Do you give her everything she asks for? no I deflect to his problems
- Do you spend time with her regularly? Yes both as a family and when able to manage just us two whether it be a date night at home watching a movie eating popcorn or an actual date night
- Do you tease her? And/or surprise her?occascionaly but not as much as I use to
- Are you controlling, or does she have a lot of space? All he cares about is the family unit so he doesn't allow himself space
- Are you in a routine lifestyle? No I am divorcing him, I am finaly doing what I want and screw everyone else
- When was your last memorable time spent together? ..I have been unhappy for years
- Do you fight often at all? all the time
- Do you two communicate a lot? no I try to avoid conflict

Some of this is stuff she has directly toldme and I know to be true. She is very verypassive aggresive others are just how I feel(and probaly are true) like the mind games. Anyways wanted to answer how I would answer for her as a thereputic exercise.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Mr.G teases me, seduces me and communicates well. The teasing is something I've gotten used to, because he wants me to relax and not be uptight. I am just oversensitive. The seduction goes both ways and the sex has been hot since we met four years ago. Communication has been a mountain climb, due to my temper and his extreme introversion. I have become sweeter and shout less, while he talks more about how he feels.
I once labeled normal concerns as controlling. Now I have matured enough to know that not wanting his wife on city streets late at night is just love. 
We are in a routine. We shake things up with racy phone calls, romantic emails and getaways when we can. Mr.G sets firm boundaries, which I appreciate since I was a bit wild before he came along and anchored me a bit. He does NOT put up with my bossy bratty ways, unlike most men. It's sexy that I met my match. If he gave me all that I wanted, I would stomp all over him.
While we do not play games, we have our favorite shows that we cuddle up and watch together.
Our most memorable time was the night we met, as well as our trip to a drama festival in honor of the Bard...I wanted to go all my life to that little theatre town with swans. *sigh*
I maintain a healthy cynicism about relationships. Marriage is a leap of faith; sometimes we land alone and bitter. Life happens and people divorce. I hope that we will spend the rest of our days together, though. I wish the same for any married couple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>He does NOT put up with my bossy bratty ways, unlike most men. It's sexy that I met my match. If he gave me all that I wanted, I would stomp all over him. While we do not play games, we have our favorite shows that we cuddle up and watch together<<

All good men should read this heartfelt paragraph from Mrs. G.

She is content to cuddle up and watch her favorite shows with him, but FIRST he had to show he would not put up with her bossy bratty ways.

These are her words.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Conrad said:


> >>He does NOT put up with my bossy bratty ways, unlike most men. It's sexy that I met my match. If he gave me all that I wanted, I would stomp all over him. While we do not play games, we have our favorite shows that we cuddle up and watch together<<
> 
> All good men should read this heartfelt paragraph from Mrs. G.
> 
> ...


Yes they are! :smthumbup: 

Some of the men on TAM confuse "manning up" as being mean and hateful. Not so.

I could scream insults at my exes, laugh when they tried to parent me and did not respect their whining for more sex. 

Mr.G is very calm, yet firm. "You can speak to me politely, but you cannot scream at me. Would you like to discuss this when you are calm?" My favorite curse is "Eff you!" My husband will laugh and say "You can eff me as much as you want, but you cannot disrespect me." :rofl::rofl: That usually makes me laugh, which ends the flare up.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mrs.G said:


> Yes they are! :smthumbup:
> 
> Some of the men on TAM confuse "manning up" as being mean and hateful. Not so.
> 
> ...


QFT

Notice that Mr. G. does not simply ignore the situation - nor does he try to "solve it".

He holds Mrs. G. responsible for her behavior.


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

50% marriage/divorce? I've heard it's closer to 20/80. A review of my parents' friends' marriages support this, anecdotally.

I'm hoping my numbers will be closer to the 50/50.


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## fallingappart (Sep 29, 2012)

marrige is the hardest and can be the most rewarding. its a long road with many bumps. just enjoy the time and make the best of it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Giving her 'everything she asks for' is classic doormat behavior. Many/most women get turned OFF by that in a big way.
> 
> Being "controlling" is a sign of fear. Another major turn off.


Exactly 
That's why it's an important question to ask


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## KhienHan (Sep 30, 2012)

Yes, this is my answers :smthumbup:

- Do you flirt with her regularly? Yes
- Do you ask for sex or simply seduce her without asking? Ask for Sex of cause (to respect)
- Do you touch her non-sexually? Yes
- Do you play games with her? Seldom
- Do you give her everything she asks for? Yes
- Do you spend time with her regularly? Yes
- Do you tease her? And/or surprise her? Occasionally
- Are you controlling, or does she have a lot of space? She has a lot of freedom
- Are you in a routine lifestyle? Yes
- When was your last memorable time spent together? Last Year at Bukit Tinggi
- Do you fight often at all? Seldom
- Do you two communicate a lot? Yes, She talks more to me :smthumbup:


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Observing the pattern of the threads here and in other sections of this forum... it seems to me that people are undergoing some issues in terms of attraction/keeping the missus from fallin' out of love etc etc.
> 
> My own marriage is only young, yet I have to admit that sometimes reading about these issues do make me worry for the future. Just curious if I may just ask a few questions if you are willing to answer... for those of you in difficult situations. They aren't right/wrong btw...
> 
> ...


She comes home, I listen to her day in a respectful, cheerful way and keep my answers short.


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## KhienHan (Sep 30, 2012)

CanadianGuy said:


> She comes home, I listen to her day in a respectful, cheerful way and keep my answers short.


I notice that, most of the women like to share her daily life with us...they type of sharing... :smthumbup:

Yes, you are right, last week, she was angry because I didn't listen to her (but instead focus onto my laptop) ... then I have to stopped my work, but, she also stop talking...


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## MYM1430 (Nov 7, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> Observing the pattern of the threads here and in other sections of this forum... it seems to me that people are undergoing some issues in terms of attraction/keeping the missus from fallin' out of love etc etc.
> 
> My own marriage is only young, yet I have to admit that sometimes reading about these issues do make me worry for the future. Just curious if I may just ask a few questions if you are willing to answer... for those of you in difficult situations. They aren't right/wrong btw...
> 
> ...


 Surface level - extensive communication. Deep feelings/emotions - not so much.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Observing the pattern of the threads here and in other sections of this forum... it seems to me that people are undergoing some issues in terms of attraction/keeping the missus from fallin' out of love etc etc.
> 
> My own marriage is only young, yet I have to admit that sometimes reading about these issues do make me worry for the future. Just curious if I may just ask a few questions if you are willing to answer... for those of you in difficult situations. They aren't right/wrong btw...
> 
> ...


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

Greenpearl, you are an inspiration to us all! I love your attitude.



greenpearl said:


> I will answer for my husband!
> 
> - Do you flirt with her regularly? Yes
> - Do you ask for sex or simply seduce her without asking? Seduce her all the time, do her at any time I want to, she loves it!
> ...


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