# Can the BS ever fully heal?



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

I have been lurking on these boards for quite sometime. I see people still writing about and disscussing their spouses affairs some as long as 20-30 years out. Can a BS ever fully heal? Those who have healed - how did you do it?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Of course they can heal. I guess the most restorations or improvement over the original norm are found in a completely different situation.

I was wanting to add to this thread. I wanted to have the physical pain, mental anguish and thoughts that occur as to being betrayed in this fashion. Male or female.

I did learn on TAM that females can also have a reduced sex drive due to repeated rejections, I didn't know it affected them like this. A husband being rejected, denied intimacy or shutdown will decrease his sex drive and can even result in ED due to a lack of confidence...

I wanted some of the physical pains described.

Part of our solution could involve mentality and dealing with the pain, stress and anger.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

But is it full? Or does a residue from their spouses affair remain on them - perhaps for the rest of their lives?


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

oh i'm glad you asked this because i'm wondering the same thing now! it's only a yr for me and i can say it is soooo much better than it was at first, but it would be nice to be able to wash my hands of it for good some day. i'd really like to!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> But is it full? Or does a residue from their spouses affair remain on them - perhaps for the rest of their lives?


I don't know mate! Not lived for the rest of my life, yet!:smthumbup:

I think it's fair to say we BS are never 100% what we were. We are good. But as good? Not certain.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I don't know mate! Not lived for the rest of my life, yet!:smthumbup:
> 
> I think it's fair to say we BS are never 100% what we were. We are good. But as good? Not certain.


I've been reading these boards for awhile and from personal experience - it is like a light goes out or dims in the BS and it never comes back fully - even if they move onto another relationship. Infidelity is a brutal blow to someones soul.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

I dont know guys if its that dire.. i think its gotta depend too on the couple and the circumstances and everything else. there's so much that goes into this i don't see why it should be the same for everyone.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think it's a matter of perspective and definition.

Do we 'heal' when a loved one dies? Or when we experience the horror of war?

Or do we develop and mature, become wiser or sadder or kinder?

I think the wonderful and terrible experiences in life change us and make us the people we become as we age. People who experience the pain of infidelity may be less trusting or more cynical or just wiser to the ways of human nature.

So, to me it's not healing per se. It's really just living.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Infidelity seems to be a particularly cruel blow....


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Yes you heal, but your thoughts, expectations and, perspectives are forever changed. Thoughts, ideas and perspectives are what make up you as a person, so you cannot be the person you were. You become a new person. The old you is effectively dead. You have to let go of the old you. The new you will be stronger, less naive and wiser. You will also be less trusting and innocent. You finally heal when you let go of what was and learn to live with the new you.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

it's tough.. sometimes i wonder what he could have done that would be worse. If he murdered someone and ended up in prison that would be worse lol, if he was a serial killer.. i can think of things, if he were abusive to our children that would be worse... he's a loving and devoted father and i'd prefer that i guess.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

There will always be a scar - acceptance, survival mechanisms kickin, but the details will remain forever fresh in your memory bank. That's life, you go on, life never stops to wait for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

I know everyone is different but in general does reconciling make the healing faster or does it hinder it?


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I know everyone is different but in general does reconciling make the healing faster or does it hinder it?


I bet it prolongs it but it's less intense probably at a certain pt.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

23 year survivor.

I started reading TAM to increase my understanding of what happened. Started posting cos I though I could help others get through it all faster than I did. Not everything I did was all that smart.

As to how I feel....well never 100% healed in as much as it still hurts and I will never 100% trust again. Not sure that is a bad thing though. I think my approach to marriage is more realistic and healthy,name my expectations are more realistic.

How did I heal? Kept working at the marriage, kept working in myself, confronted everything that hurt me and dealt with it. Talked to her. Dunno...with time I got to a place of peace.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> 23 year survivor.
> 
> I started reading TAM to increase my understanding of what happened. Started posting cos I though I could help others get through it all faster than I did. Not everything I did was all that smart.
> 
> ...


Do you love her as much as you did pre-affair?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Do you love her as much as you did pre-affair?


More. 

Took a long time though. And it's a different flavour of love...a bit more cerebral.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Was she remorseful? If you don't mind me asking was it a LTA? ONS? Does it even matter?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MY ex's 3 betrayals ended 13 years ago before I left for good. I have since remarried someone whom we love each other very much and I am quite content. 

But for me, it has not ended. I still have some video of her with her first lover in my head every so often. I have become a tad paranoid and snoopy with little reason to my current wife and am far less quick to completely commit myself. And to be perfectly honest, there are times I wish so much my first marriage could have worked out. I WAS a good and faithful husband and she just liked men. I still feel like a bit of a loser over it all and I know there is no reason to.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> MY ex's 3 betrayals ended 13 years ago before I left for good. I have since remarried someone whom we love each other very much and I am quite content.
> 
> But for me, it has not ended. I still have some video of her with her first lover in my head every so often. I have become a tad paranoid and snoopy with little reason to my current wife and am far less quick to completely commit myself. And to be perfectly honest, there are times I wish so much my first marriage could have worked out. I WAS a good and faithful husband and she just liked men. I still feel like a bit of a loser over it all and I know there is no reason to.


BP - it was not you it was her. Don't feel like a loser.The WS's infidelity is on them - people can't make you cheat no matter what you do. I always thought that excuse was flimsy myself. There are plenty of people in problematic marriages who do not cheat.

Oh and I know what it is like to still love someone who totally screwed you over - love makes no sense sometimes.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Was she remorseful? If you don't mind me asking was it a LTA? ONS? Does it even matter?


Don't mind you asking.

Six month approx affair...lots of lies, trickle truth and hurtful words. She contemplated leaving me for him. in retrospect i think she realises she was used. i stayed for the kids. Over years we rebuilt the friendship. Then love.

I have what she claims was the full story, but it came a long time after the fact and I have no way to verify it. That uses to bug me. It doesn't so much now.

There is no doubt in my mind that she is incredibly ashamed at what she did.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> BP - it was not you it was her. Don't feel like a loser.The WS's infidelity is on them - people can't make you cheat no matter what you do. I always thought that excuse was flimsy myself. There are plenty of people in problematic marriages who do not cheat.
> 
> Oh and I know what it is like to still love someone who totally screwed you over - love makes no sense sometimes.


I guess the other thing is that we were so well matched. I loved her with all my heart and I wish you could have seen me when she met at the door and told me she had been having a betrayal ad was leaving. You, literally (and I do mean "literally") could have pushed me over with a feather.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Don't mind you asking.
> 
> Six month approx affair...lots of lies, trickle truth and hurtful words. She contemplated leaving me for him. in retrospect i think she realises she was used. i stayed for the kids. Over years we rebuilt the friendship. Then love.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your candor. Was it a 6 month PA or one of those EA/brief PA things? After reading these boards there seems to be a million combos...my head spins sometimes....LTAs seem the most devastating...do you think she would forgive you if you had the same transgression?.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I guess the other thing is that we were so well matched. I loved her with all my heart and I wish you could have seen me when she met at the door and told me she had been having a betrayal ad was leaving. You, literally (and I do mean "literally") could have pushed me over with a feather.


Do you have that kind of love with your second wife? Do you keep in touch with the first wife?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Thanks for your candor. Was it a 6 month PA or one of those EA/brief PA things? After reading these boards there seems to be a million combos...my head spins sometimes....LTAs seem the most devastating...do you think she would forgive you if you had the same transgression?.


Two admitted physical encounters. In one of the, she spent the night with him. Saw him two or three times a week during that six months in social situations to which I was not invited.

She thought I did have a revenge PA and forgave it without discussion. I found that out years after the event. Was able to tell her the truth..that it was offered and I was tempted but declined.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thank you for your honestly - it is very informative. Here is a controversial question - do you think a RA would have made you heal quicker?


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

I am not sure if I can ever heal from it. It is the worse pain ever. I may forgive and try to move to R, but will never heal. It will always be there I am afraid.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> I am not sure if I can ever heal from it. It is the worse pain ever. I may forgive and try to move to R, but will never heal. It will always be there I am afraid.


Do you feel it had jaded you towards other people?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Thank you for your honestly - it is very informative. Here is a controversial question - do you think a RA would have made you heal quicker?


No. For me it would have done further damage. No question.

One caveat...some years after my wife's affair, while I was only there out of duty, I developed feelings for another women. I believe I handled it appropriately, but developing those feelings and working to manage the situation did help understand how my wife had messed up.

But had I allowed an affair to grow I can see only bad that would have come from it. It would be like my wife crashed the car so I crashed it as well to balance things. The second crash does not fix the damage caused by the first.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Comment, in my experience a remorseful wayward never fully heals either.

I love my wife. We do what we can to help each other get over what she did.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Comment, in my experience a remorseful wayward never fully heals either.
> 
> I love my wife. We do what we can to help each other get over what she did.


I really appreciate your willingness to share.

Do you think that generally the WS carries as heavy a burden as the BS? I'm not so sure form what I have seen. But everyone is different.

Are you both still working to get over her infidelit 23 years later?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I really appreciate your willingness to share.
> 
> Do you think that generally the WS carries as heavy a burden as the BS? I'm not so sure form what I have seen. But everyone is different.
> 
> Are you both still working to get over her infidelit 23 years later?


I don't know how to measure who carries the greater burden. I suspect it is case by case, but don't know.

I wouldn't say we were working to get over the infidelity now. We work on the marriage, but that is not the same thing.

Thing is, I don't think about keeping score or getting even. Once you let those things go the world changes.

I work on having the best marriage I can. As part if that I work on my imperfections and my wife's. I keep an eye out for signs of cheating. If it happens again, she's gone, but I will not regret the intervening years.

Why would I want someone I love to suffer through "he had a revenge affair but I deserve it". I'd rather give her flowers. Sorry if this seems dumb, but point is, letting go of negatives is the path to happiness.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I don't know how to measure who carries the greater burden. I suspect it is case by case, but don't know.
> 
> I wouldn't say we were working to get over the infidelity now. We work on the marriage, but that is not the same thing.
> 
> ...


Wazza this was your path to happiness and you found it with your wife. I would never call you dumb. Nor would I I judge you if you left or had an RA or whatever - it's YOU'RE path.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Wazza said:


> 23 year survivor.
> 
> I started reading TAM to increase my understanding of what happened. Started posting cos I though I could help others get through it all faster than I did. Not everything I did was all that smart.
> 
> ...


Hi Wazza, I'm glad you were able to find a path - such a long time. You say you confronted everything that hurt you and dealt with it. This includes the idea that there is stuff you will never get an answer to right? How were you able to let that go?

Even at 14 weeks it's early days for me and to be honest it is a false Recon anyway but one thing my WS said to the POSOM - "If only we got to do the things we planned to do, oh well it was not to be...." has always bugged me. She simply refuses to give this remark the light of day other than it was fantasy.

Funny how some things in particular reverberate. Perhaps it is the idea that this quote from her suggested planning a future with the POSOM. It goes on and on....


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Horizon said:


> Hi Wazza, I'm glad you were able to find a path - such a long time. You say you confronted everything that hurt you and dealt with it. This includes the idea that there is stuff you will never get an answer to right? How were you able to let that go?
> 
> Even at 14 weeks it's early days for me and to be honest it is a false Recon anyway but one thing my WS said to the POSOM - "If only we got to do the things we planned to do, oh well it was not to be...." has always bugged me. She simply refuses to give this remark the light of day other than it was fantasy.
> 
> Funny how some things in particular reverberate. Perhaps it is the idea that this quote from her suggested planning a future with the POSOM. It goes on and on....


Hey Horizon, haven't followed your thread for a while. I did a prune and from memory it had been quiet. How are you doing? What is the latest in your story?

Letting go........that is a good question. Look, in theory I have complete answers now....I just would never totally trust what I can't verify. But I am also pragmatic. It that stuff is the past, then I don't let it affect the future. So really the answer is partly that it is just me. I have a temper, but when not angry I am pretty calm.

Totally get you about that quote...there are a couple of such things from my wife's affair, and they hurt more than the physical stuff to me.

I got over it with time. We build happy memories and crowd the sad ones out. I'm human, I get maudlin on occasion. But not that often.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wazza this was your path to happiness and you found it with your wife. I would never call you dumb. Nor would I I judge you if you left or had an RA or whatever - it's YOU'RE path.


Thanks.

Others have....


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Its appropriate that someone mentioned other traumatic experiences such as death of a loved one or combat in war, because I believe when we look for evidence across such a range of tragic episodes, I think we can see that recovery is very much an individual thing.

I had many great uncles and my grandfather who fought in WWII. Just amongst my relatives, I saw a wide range of recovering from the horrors they had experienced as young men.

Some had almost no noticeable effects from the war. Others had nearly destroyed themselves with alcoholism until finally coming to some type of peace with it. A couple never really recovered, one essentially drinking himself to death.

I guess this would lead me to believe a similar thing would be expected from infidelity. It will all depend on how that individual processes the trauma of the experience.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Yes you can heal. Completely. But you have to decide to.

My 20's were all about my love for a selfish serial cheater who broke his promises to me every single time. I loved him, so I keep taking him back. Until one day, when I said enough. I have decided not to be heartbroken anymore. I have decided to find a worthy man. I have decided I deserve better.

Now should I have allowed the pain of this guy's betrayal define the rest of my life? Should I have allowed him to mark me permanently, to shut me down ? Hell no ! Why would you give anyone such a power over your lives, BS-es? 

I REFUSED to allow one man's depreciation of me make me feel unworthy. I AM worthy- he was not the ONE for me and I was not the ONE for him. I REFUSED to adopt beliefs like " All men are cheaters" and "I can never trust anyone anymore". Again, what's this total nonsense? Just because someone is a cheater a$$ doesn't mean everybody in the whole wide world is ! You may meet a great person and miss out an awesome partnership- for what? Because a jerk hurt you? Why do you give them power to CONTINUE to hurt you?

Yes, their cheating is on them. Healing is on YOU. Wether you decide to R or D. When I read comments like "it takes you years to heal", or "you may never completely heal", I boil with indignation. Why do you focus on such awful thoughts? Why would you adopt such beliefs? Why not say instead: "I REFUSE to allow this person's actions ruin my life. I DECIDED I'm partially healed right now, and with every single moment, I'M HEALING more and more. I DECIDED not to focus on them and their lover, for they are not worth my thoughts! I'm focusing on my healing. I'm focusing on my children. On ..."insert here". Just please, please, stop focusing on them and on the feeling of being hurt! It is not worth it !! Don't live your life like this.

Nobody can be responsible for anybody else's happiness. Nobody can break you. Nobody can dim your light for good. Unless you allow them. Do not !
Your happiness is on YOU. It is YOUR task. It is YOU to decide how you want to live your life - not your spouse, not anyone. You had a life before they came into picture. You'll have a life after they're gone. Your life is not about THIS ONE person. Your life is for you to live it, and make the most of it. Why on Earth we put our happiness in someone else's hands? Why do we give them this burden, and this power upon us altogether?

Until you decide to think this way, and REFUSE to live in pain for another minute of your life, you shall not heal. The instant you decide you want to be healed, you decide not to hang on to the pain, then you will start healing. It's all in your mind !

Look at me: I could be a 30 something maid, crying about how men are pigs and how my boyfriend didn't appreciate me, cheated on me, 
how I am unworthy, broken, can't find someone, etc. Well, the moment I said " ENOUGH" I haven't spared one more thought on his cheating.I shrugged off all this bullsheet ideas. And today, I'm happy with a man worthy of my trust, and of my loyalty. 
Head up, life goes on!


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

For myself and maybe in a simplistic way

You never completely heal and _it is absolutely right that you don't_ - *it's a scar* isn't it, you have been torn to shreds, betrayed, proverbially stabbed in the heart and of course you will never completely heal - it's the brains way of saying you got burned and this will be in the back of your mind to ensure to hope you don't get burned again 

Just because it's based upon mentality rather than physical injury makes no difference in my opinion 

Never completely healing is the protection, self preservation we as animals have embedded in the dna 

Obviously one does not want or need it at the forefront of ones mind every single day but I'd say we are quite good at compartmentalizing things as we truck merrily along
I don't want to forget a single thing about what my stbxw did in our 15 years. I don't want it to adversely effect my next relationship but I certainly wont be forgetting and I don't want to either.

It is overall a sad state of affairs but one we actually need imo


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

It has been seven years since the betrayal nightmare began for me. Not only did my spouse cheat, but he drained all our money, destroyed a business, and we lost our dream house. I've also had to watch our children struggle because of what their father chose to do. The stress has been unbearable at times. Unfortunately the stress has done a lot of damage to my body and mind. So to answer your question....No (at least in my case).


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

johnAdams said:


> No, I do not feel most betrayed spouses ever heal. Like a lot of bad things in life you learn to live with it. You can divorce but I think you still carry the pain with you. You can reconcile and probably even live a pretty happy life. It is a strange feeling though, you love your spouse but she/he is the one that did this too you. She/He is the one that murdered the person you love. In the over two decades since my wife betrayed me I have had many happy times with her but the pain never goes away. There has never been a day in my life go by that I did not give it some thought. I go through a deep depression probably once a year that may last a few weeks before I can snap out of it. We are all different and cope with things differently, but no you never fully recover.


John, do you think its because she was not truly remorseful? Have you considered counseling? You situation seems really sad. you don't deserve a life sentence of misery like this.


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## ASummersDay (Mar 4, 2013)

Truthseeker, I know that I have not fully healed. I have forgiven him and moved on, but I have definitely changed in a fundamental way. I don't think I'll ever be the person I was before ever again. The damage has been done.

That said, I am capable of having a healthy and happy marriage. In some ways, what my POSX did made me a better partner. So I don't look at it as an experience that doomed me.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I don't think that 'heal' is the right word for the place that you strive for after being betrayed. Like others have said, life experiences mould you. They don't unhappen - they affect you to a greater or lesser degree forever. The way someone handles the pain of betrayal will differ from person to person, but I hesitate to say that anyone truly 'heals' from it, if that is supposed to mean that they get back to the state they were in before the betrayal. That's impossible unless we develop technology to erase memories.

If, by 'heal', you mean come to peace with themselves, then yes, people can and do do so after betrayal. People do so after all kinds of horrific incidents in their lives. Like invasive surgery, you'll always have that scar. But the scar, to me anyways, represents something that was taken out that was bad for me. I'm better off now than I was before, because we address the issues in our marriage head on now, and he is getting help for his sex addiction. There were other paths that could have led to the same result that wouldn't have been so devastating, and I wish we had gone down one of them instead, but we didn't, and we're at the place we are today anyway, and I am glad.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I don't think that 'heal' is the right word for the place that you strive for after being betrayed. Like others have said, life experiences mould you. They don't unhappen - they affect you to a greater or lesser degree forever. The way someone handles the pain of betrayal will differ from person to person, but I hesitate to say that anyone truly 'heals' from it, if that is supposed to mean that they get back to the state they were in before the betrayal. That's impossible unless we develop technology to erase memories.
> 
> If, by 'heal', you mean come to peace with themselves, then yes, people can and do do so after betrayal. People do so after all kinds of horrific incidents in their lives. Like invasive surgery, you'll always have that scar. But the scar, to me anyways, represents something that was taken out that was bad for me. I'm better off now than I was before, because we address the issues in our marriage head on now, and he is getting help for his sex addiction. There were other paths that could have led to the same result that wouldn't have been so devastating, and I wish we had gone down one of them instead, but we didn't, and we're at the place we are today anyway, and I am glad.


Perfect explanation of it.:iagree:


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. It seems to me the WS - whether remorseful or not - has permanently damaged another human being - one they vowed to be faithful to. 

But i see now that being a BS is like being a victim of a trauma -a wicked form of emotional abuse - and the scars will always be with them. It is about dealing with the abuse and its aftereffects. Very sad indeed.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You're only sad and damaged if you allow yourself to be  Figuring out how to NOT be sad and damaged is the hard part.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Four years out now... And it’s so much different. I really don’t think about the affairs directly or ‘back then’. Sort of like I’ve had all those thoughts, looked at it from every angle, and digested it. Nothing new to think about as far as those relationship went. (And I don’t know everything... it just doesn’t tear me up like it used to)

So it’s about watching her an her approach on life in general. When I see things that concern me, I confront... heavy and hard. And when I say “concerning things” I’m not talking about adulterous behavior or wondering if she’s cheating. Something I learned; By the time it gets there, her mind has already been thinking it for a long time. So I’m talking about stuff like our last argument.

She got it in her head that she knew what I was thinking; Of coarse not in glowing terms. That was part of her old process so eventually who she thought I was and how I really saw things was a complete fabrication of her own mind. So... I ripped her apart when she finally verified that she did indeed think she ‘knew what I really thought’ and set her straight on how I saw this stuff (death in her family).

And well... things are completely different now with both of us. Rekindling a new relationship where the link to the past is more ‘that is where I f’d it up’. We learned. And we aren’t afraid to rock the boat when we see some of those old problems creeping out. She calls me out too but it’s different than before. 

Not quite Hallmark yet. But a strong relationship that is growing again. And like Wazza said, 


Wazza said:


> I wouldn't say we were working to get over the infidelity now. We work on the marriage, but that is not the same thing.
> 
> Thing is, I don't think about keeping score or getting even. Once you let those things go the world changes. _*(I’d add that I don’t feel I owe her anything or need to live up to her standards... So I give freely without expecting ‘payment’ and she doesn’t expect anything from me either and see’s whatever I give as a gift rather than a duty to her. And visa-versa)*_
> 
> I work on having the best marriage I can. _*(I work on achieving the ideals of marriage as best I can so one day it will feel like a real marriage)*_ As part if that I work on my imperfections and my wife's. I keep an eye out for signs of cheating. If it happens again, she's gone, but I will not regret the intervening years..


I think we are just separated by time, but on that same path of R.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Oh... and I wouldn't say "making peace"... It's more "finding peace" within yourself so you can move forward without regret.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I have been lurking on these boards for quite sometime. I see people still writing about and disscussing their spouses affairs some as long as 20-30 years out. *Can a BS ever fully heal?* Those who have healed - how did you do it?


IMHO, not completely.

Consider "fully healed" as a speed of light equation. At best, the BS can approach it, might get close to it, but will never reach that speed. 

Short of amnesia, the betrayal can't be erased from the mind. It will always be there. Either consciously or subconsciously. That's why they are so devastating.

But that doesn't mean the marriage can't be better. Despite the lingering memory of the betrayal, a new and better relationship can happen, if the CS demonstrates remorse and both partners work at it. That has to be the goal for R.

Easier said than done.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks. The info I have gotten from these boards and these replies is not only helpful to me but to someone else who is going through a terrible time right now. He's not a computer person and would never come to boards like this but I can pass along your wisdom. It has also helped me with my own situation. I felt shame for not picking up the signs sooner and put it all together when it was too late. It shook my confidence to the core. Thank you all so much.


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Do you feel it had jaded you towards other people?


Not yet, but I have no desire at this point to become involved with anyone else. Not really sure I can reconcile with WS yet.


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Thirteen and a half months out, he stayed in "the fog" until January, so R since then and is now doing all but standing on his head stacking greased ball bearings to make things right. Until only a month or so ago, if he said, "The sky is blue", for instance, I would walk outside and verify that the sky was indeed, blue. Only recently have I caught myself once or twice when he said "The sky is blue", I thought, "Yes, the sky must be blue", and was surprised even at myself that I hadn't run outside to check. 
I'm not sure how much of that is due to his continued support/remorse/transparency, or that we made it past the one year mark, or some combination. I had admitted to him on the weekend of our one year Dday, that I had given myself until that date (would have been a Sunday) to decide whether or not this life was worth living or not. At that moment, he stood up, hugged my hard, and said (in a crowded restaurant) "I'm your goddamned Monday, Angel!"
I still wait for the day that I can believe the sky is blue each time without verifying. But, with each truth, there is a little more healing.


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## Flygirl (Apr 9, 2013)

For me, the lying and trickle truth did most of the damage. I wish he would have just come clean as soon as he was caught. I have forgiven him for what he did but I do not trust him. I don't feel safe with him. I keep thinking about how easy it was for him to lie to me over and over, see my pain, and watch me fall apart just so he could protect himself. Every time I discovered a new lie it was like ripping a scab off. 

I lost my sister 2 years ago. Everyone told me it would get easier with time. It doesn't get easier, you just get use to living with the pain and loss. You develop a new normal. I hold on to that hope of developing a new normal in my marriage too.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Flygirl said:


> For me, the lying and trickle truth did most of the damage. I wish he would have just come clean as soon as he was caught. I have forgiven him for what he did but I do not trust him. I don't feel safe with him. I keep thinking about how easy it was for him to lie to me over and over, see my pain, and watch me fall apart just so he could protect himself. Every time I discovered a new lie it was like ripping a scab off.
> 
> I lost my sister 2 years ago. Everyone told me it would get easier with time. It doesn't get easier, you just get use to living with the pain and loss. You develop a new normal. I hold on to that hope of developing a new normal in my marriage too.


You got someone who has broken your trust. When they behave in non-transparent ways, or hide and sneak at this point, or take you for granted, or speak or act condenscending, it hurts even more...


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

treyvion said:


> A husband being rejected, denied intimacy or shutdown will decrease his sex drive and can even result in ED due to a lack of confidence...


That was me. Still affects me sometimes. Sux.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> That was me. Still affects me sometimes. Sux.


You can get over it for good if you get into a new situation and put your past behind you for good.

If you are still sexxing your situation which cheated on you, your going to have to do the hysterical bonding bit. I'd do a bunch of sessions where I'm not rejected and really your going to have to put it to her like it's never been done before.

A bunch of good experiences and you can get past it.

Some of it is HER if you are still screwing with her, and her perception of you due to her cheating on you.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Yes, we're still together and we've bonded.. and I have fogiven her to the best of my human ability (God gets the rest, thank you Lord), but the triggers and mind movies still come. It was only February I found out about the PA part of her affair. She brought him to our bed. Thankfully, we're not even in the same state any more.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am sure you never fully heal. It is scar tissue that builds up over the wound. How quickly does that happen that depends on the BS and the WS.

It seems to me that just when I get to a place I am feeling safe again something comes up and tears off the scab.

I have also become a different person. I know I address things hard and fast when it comes to how someone is treating me


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Yes, we're still together and we've bonded.. and I have fogiven her to the best of my human ability (God gets the rest, thank you Lord), but the triggers and mind movies still come. It was only February I found out about the PA part of her affair. She brought him to our bed. Thankfully, we're not even in the same state any more.


You need more time. You will get past it if she stays the course. If she gives you any reason to doubt her your going to have problems with that issue.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

treyvion said:


> You can get over it for good if you get into a new situation and put your past behind you for good.
> 
> If you are still sexxing your situation which cheated on you, your going to have to do the hysterical bonding bit. I'd do a bunch of sessions where I'm not rejected and really your going to have to put it to her like it's never been done before.
> 
> ...


Thinking about this.

Think you mean changing partners? That wouldn't work for me.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I don't know how to measure who carries the greater burden. I suspect it is case by case, but don't know.
> 
> I wouldn't say we were working to get over the infidelity now. We work on the marriage, but that is not the same thing.
> 
> ...


Not dumb.. it's the better path, understanding and compassion over bitterness and hatred. It shows how much you care about your wife. I think it's a wonderful attitude.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Thinking about this.
> 
> Think you mean changing partners? That wouldn't work for me.


I think each person has their own path to accepting and moving on - perhaps the word healing is not a good word - because it seems most people deal with the fallout for the rest of their lives. Equating it to a death(like others have suggested) seems appropriate - there is a loss that can NEVER be replaced. BS are the victims of a cruel emotional abuse that takes something from them that can't be returned. I guess the best case scenario is it makes them a stronger person and more confident in their abilities to deal with life's adversities.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think each person has their own path to accepting and moving on - perhaps the word healing is not a good word - because it seems most people deal with the fallout for the rest of their lives. Equating it to a death(like others have suggested) seems appropriate - there is a loss that can NEVER be replaced. BS are the victims of a cruel emotional abuse that takes something from them that can't be returned. I guess the best case scenario is it makes them a stronger person and more confident in their abilities to deal with life's adversities.


I agree.

It is very hard to rebuild with someone who has done that to you, and the affair remains the single most traumatic event of my adult life. It was more painful than the death of a parent for example.

I can understand someone leaving the marriage because being with their cheating spouse is just too painful. I have not forgotten how hard it was just to walk through the front door at night. How much the affair intruded into everything. How much harder it made it to work on the problems that had weakened the marriage.

I have something great now, but I paid a hell of a price for it. I can well understand someone starting over.

But the innocence...the notion that you can find someone who will oever betray you...is gone. It would not come back from another partner.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I agree.
> 
> It is very hard to rebuild with someone who has done that to you, and the affair remains the single most traumatic event of my adult life. It was more painful than the death of a parent for example.
> 
> ...


Great insights thanks Wazza.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

My STBXH's affair and resulting getting the OM pregnant has left a scar on my soul I'm not sure will ever heal. He broke his commitment to me, our family and our marriage. I trusted him completely and he lied and had an entire secret life I knew nothing about. 

I had lunch with a friend yesterday and she asked me "I don't know how anyone could ever get past this and stay with that person".

She also said "there are too many good men in the world who want to be committed and be a loving husband to stay with a man you could never trust again". I completely agree with her.

Reason we were having this conversation was STBXH has been talking about R. I cannot and will not do it. I can't get past what he has done, no matter how much he apologizes, says he made huge mistakes, tells me none of it was my fault, etc. I can't face our mutual friends and his family, he publicly humiliated me by flaunting his affair all over facebook. I just want to leave them and all of this pain in the past and move on.

I truly don't understand these women who forgive and stay with men who have done what my ex has done, I often wonder do they have no self respect? But that's just me.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

brokenbythis said:


> My STBXH's affair and resulting getting the OM pregnant has left a scar on my soul I'm not sure will ever heal. He broke his commitment to me, our family and our marriage. I trusted him completely and he lied and had an entire secret life I knew nothing about.
> 
> I had lunch with a friend yesterday and she asked me "I don't know how anyone could ever get past this and stay with that person".
> 
> ...


I'm truly sorry abou your situation. Your friend is right - there are too many good people in the world to have a relationship with- that you can move on and find someone new.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

After my first wife cheated on me and I split up with her, I never sought any outside help or counseling. I wish I had because I carried alot of anger and mistrust into my second marriage which, looking back, caused me to neglect my second wife in many fundemental ways. I'm not saying she was a complete victim, because she brought alot of her own unresolved issues from her childhood into the marriage and the end result was we never learned to open up and communicate our needs to each other. The marriage ended up dying on the vine. There was no infidelity, but there most likely would have been had we not ended it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LostViking said:


> After my first wife cheated on me and I split up with her, I never sought any outside help or counseling. I wish I had because I carried alot of anger and mistrust into my second marriage which, looking back, caused me to neglect my second wife in many fundemental ways. I'm not saying she was a complete victim, because she brought alot of her own unresolved issues from her childhood into the marriage and the end result was we never learned to open up and communicate our needs to each other. The marriage ended up dying on the vine. There was no infidelity, but there most likely would have been had we not ended it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LV, have you worked on those issues?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

I am in IC, finally. I refused for years but I learned a lot fromTAM and decided to work on my issues. And boy do I have a lot of them!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LostViking said:


> I am in IC, finally. I refused for years but I learned a lot fromTAM and decided to work on my issues. And boy do I have a lot of them!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Whatever became of your first wife?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Or it breaks them completely and they never recover enough to have another relationship.
> 
> It's a roll of the dice whether a marriage will even make it today. Let alone from infidelity.


Strongly agree with this. Think a lot depends on your expectations of relationship in the first place. Freely admit than when I got married my expectations were unrealistic.

I think for some people it takes a lot of work to recover from infidelity, and for others it is just impossible.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Whatever became of your first wife?


She traveled down a dark dismal road for many years jumping fro man to man until she got married again. That marriage was full of abuse and her husband cheated on her. I think she came to herself and got help. She went through years of counseling to get to the root of her problem. She and I got back together earlier this year after more than 20 years apart and she finally gave me the most complete apology a BS could ever get. She had finally gotten to a place of true empathy, but it took her years of swimming through hell to get there. We hooked up and talked about getting back together but I called it off. 

In her professional life she has done well for herself and is successful in her career. But she is still single and last I heard from her a couple of weeks ago she is not dating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LostViking said:


> She traveled down a dark dismal road for many years jumping fro man to man until she got married again. That marriage was full of abuse and her husband cheated on her. I think she came to herself and got help. She went through years of counseling to get to the root of her problem. She and I got back together earlier this year after more than 20 years apart and she finally gave me the most complete apology a BS could ever get. She had finally gotten to a place of true empathy, but it took her years of swimming through hell to get there. We hooked up and talked about getting back together but I called it off.
> 
> In her professional life she has done well for herself and is successful in her career. But she is still single and last I heard from her a couple of weeks ago she is not dating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think it is good that you two made peace and are on friendlier terms. She sounds like she suffered a great deal because of her choices - a successful career means nothing if your personal life is in shambles. Do you think you two will ever date again?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think it is good that you two made peace and are on friendlier terms. She sounds like she suffered a great deal because of her choices - a successful career means nothing if your personal life is in shambles. Do you think you two will ever date again?


She was going to travel out here to the West coast where I live to stay with me a week and rekindle our relationship, but I felt there was too much risk. We have settled into a cordial friendship, like pen pals. But no, we won't get back together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

I will never completely "heal" if that is the word to use, which I think it is not. This has opened old wounds that had already shaped me. As it is we will never have a great marriage or the one I had dreamed of, or the one that could have been. It can be a good marriage but there will also never be the trust that we had once, I don't feel that I will ever support the things he wants to do with complete faith or energy either. Somehow I have become bitter, and more selfish. It is now about me and what I want what makes me happy or not. There is no more self sacrificing by me for his happiness he got his way he won't have the ability to do it again. He says he has leaned about himself and grown up at my expense and that sums it up. Nothing will be at my expense again. How do you forgive? I have to a certain degree I understand what he was thinking and doing but it is not an acceptable excuse ever again. He knows if it ever happens again even flirting any lying or false directed statements will break this. He has already told the MC that it has been through me he has learned what love is (yeah right ) and if it wasn't for me he would most likely be dead or in prison. Whoppee! I should could have lived another life time without this.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

jupiter13 said:


> I will never completely "heal" if that is the word to use, which I think it is not. This has opened old wounds that had already shaped me. As it is we will never have a great marriage or the one I had dreamed of, or the one that could have been. It can be a good marriage but there will also never be the trust that we had once, I don't feel that I will ever support the things he wants to do with complete faith or energy either. Somehow I have become bitter, and more selfish. It is now about me and what I want what makes me happy or not. There is no more self sacrificing by me for his happiness he got his way he won't have the ability to do it again. He says he has leaned about himself and grown up at my expense and that sums it up. Nothing will be at my expense again. How do you forgive? I have to a certain degree I understand what he was thinking and doing but it is not an acceptable excuse ever again. He knows if it ever happens again even flirting any lying or false directed statements will break this. He has already told the MC that it has been through me he has learned what love is (yeah right ) and if it wasn't for me he would most likely be dead or in prison. Whoppee! I should could have lived another life time without this.


Have you done IC - soyou can come to a place of happiness and eace - for yourself and not him?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LostViking said:


> She was going to travel out here to the West coast where I live to stay with me a week and rekindle our relationship, but I felt there was too much risk. We have settled into a cordial friendship, like pen pals. But no, we won't get back together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How about your second wife?


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## sang-froid (May 2, 2013)

My first marriage was a bad relationship that ended not long after I found out he cheated on me. It took me a long time but I was able to mostly recover from it. I can honestly say that I loved and trusted my current H wholeheartedly until I found out about his infidelity. I don't think my trust level in other people is going to make as much of a recovery this time.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

sang-froid said:


> My first marriage was a bad relationship that ended not long after I found out he cheated on me. It took me a long time but I was able to mostly recover from it. I can honestly say that I loved and trusted my current H wholeheartedly until I found out about his infidelity. I don't think my trust level in other people is going to make as much of a recovery this time.


Are you doing IC to help you through this?


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I think you can heal like from a surgery where they removed a body part. You can heal but you now have to adapt to missing that body part and will never be the same and a scar will be there to remind you of what happened. While at first you hate the scar and it seems to stand out, you get used to the scar and with time it becomes part of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

mablenc said:


> I think you can heal like from a surgery where they removed a body part. You can heal but you now have to adapt to missing that body part and will never be the same and a scar will be there to remind you of what happened. While at first you hate the scar and it seems to stand out, you get used to the scar and with time it becomes part of you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: Yeah that seems ot be the case.....


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How about your second wife?


. 

That marriage was plagued with alot of problems, primarily having to do with our inability to have children. It's a long drawn out story, but in the end we just shut down towards each other. We divorced last year. I think we have spoken a total of five times since. In a way I felt worse with this divorce because it was obviously a product of my failings as well as hers. It was not acrimonious, just sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lmodel (Jun 1, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Others have....


Wazza, you speak some very wise and words. From reading your story my path seems very similar to yours although I'm only about 18 months from DD. If I can ask you one question, do you think you would have recovered quicker and be more happy and content now had you moved on and met someone else, essentially started a fresh without wanting to sound too clinical. 

I too have given a commitment to stay until the kids finish school (3 years) and work on the relationship in that time, I honestly hope we can work it out. I am however mindful that if we do work it out there will always be that nagging doubt, that small amount of resentment, always second guessing and honestly I can live without that.


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## life101 (Nov 18, 2012)

Almost 10 months since DD and 7 months since filing for divorce, I can say that the pain gets lessened little by little everyday and that wound starts to heal too. However, the thing I miss most is the loss of innocence and the ability to trust another person completely and unconditionally. I have always been a very trusting person, whom my friends have often called too naïve. Even after being backstabbed and cheated repeatedly I didn't change my faith on humanity. But my STBXW's cheating has effectively changed me fundamentally. I wish I could get my innocence back again. If I don't, then the bad person in my previous relationship wins and I don't want that to happen.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

truthseeker1, I went into IC immediately after D-Day. I am currently only doing MC. I just bought the books The Trauma Response: Treatment for Emotional Injury and The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. All ready read After the Affair, His needs her needs, love Busters, Not just Friends and a few other suggested readings. The problem as I see it is the betrayal is from someone I was totally committed too, love without reservations or doubt. My have previous abuse issues that I had taken care of before the marriage. I never intended to be in a relationship again and then he came into my life. No one had touched me as he did. I listened to his words his promises and all the things he had to say. It is one thing to suffer betrayal and abuse from a stranger but it is something else when it is from someone you love. My WH was also violent with me on D-Day and I sent him he to jail. This has awaken the old wounds. Yes I will find a space where I can come to some terms of peace but the expectations or happiness I had thought I could have in a relationship will never be. You can not fix this or repair to have it be as good as new. These are things I wanted from my marriage that have been shattered. As of now I have nothing to replace them with, there is nothing more I wanted. Anything new will be built on the back of something broken how can that be all that great? Good maybe but not great.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

jupiter13 said:


> truthseeker1, I went into IC immediately after D-Day. I am currently only doing MC. I just bought the books The Trauma Response: Treatment for Emotional Injury and The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. All ready read After the Affair, His needs her needs, love Busters, Not just Friends and a few other suggested readings. The problem as I see it is the betrayal is from someone I was totally committed too, love without reservations or doubt. My have previous abuse issues that I had taken care of before the marriage. I never intended to be in a relationship again and then he came into my life. No one had touched me as he did. I listened to his words his promises and all the things he had to say. It is one thing to suffer betrayal and abuse from a stranger but it is something else when it is from someone you love. My WH was also violent with me on D-Day and I sent him he to jail. This has awaken the old wounds. Yes I will find a space where I can come to some terms of peace but the expectations or happiness I had thought I could have in a relationship will never be. You can not fix this or repair to have it be as good as new. These are things I wanted from my marriage that have been shattered. As of now I have nothing to replace them with, there is nothing more I wanted. Anything new will be built on the back of something broken how can that be all that great? Good maybe but not great.


The damage done to the BS and the marriage seems irreparable in most cases. I have been doing some general self-help reading and a common theme seems to be to look for happiness within yourself - that when it comes from another human being it is fleeting and dangerous. - since you are dependent on things you can not control. This is also a good message for WSs since they went outside the marriage to look for the validation they thought they needed - they destroyed many lives in the process. If they were able to look inside themselves, improve themselves first - then perhaps they would have had the strength to say no to an affair - out of respect for themselves and others. 

At the end of the day no good comes from affairs but damage - permanent damage - to innocent people.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Lmodel said:


> Wazza, you speak some very wise and words. From reading your story my path seems very similar to yours although I'm only about 18 months from DD. If I can ask you one question, do you think you would have recovered quicker and be more happy and content now had you moved on and met someone else, essentially started a fresh without wanting to sound too clinical.
> 
> I too have given a commitment to stay until the kids finish school (3 years) and work on the relationship in that time, I honestly hope we can work it out. I am however mindful that if we do work it out there will always be that nagging doubt, that small amount of resentment, always second guessing and honestly I can live without that.


Dunno, but I don't think so. 

Firstly, I did a lot of rethinking of relationships. Without that I think I would have just repeated many mistakes from the first marriage. 

Secondly, my wife really is a very good match for me. Very happy, now.

Thirdly, I am very glad I was there for my kids.

Fourthly. I would second guess with someone else as well. Once bitten twice shy.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Dunno, but I don't think so.
> 
> Firstly, I did a lot of rethinking of relationships. Without that I think I would have just repeated many mistakes from the first marriage.
> 
> ...


Wazza do you think your wife's affair effected how much you trust people in general?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wazza do you think your wife's affair effected how much you trust people in general?


Yes, in as much as I rethought the whole nature of trust. It was certainly one factor, and it was the factor that made me decide no one is worthy of absolute trust.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Yes, in as much as I rethought the whole nature of trust. It was certainly one factor, and it was the factor that made me decide no one is worthy of absolute trust.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

I'd wager no, if someone resides in the grasp of the one who wounded them. 

I think it's usually more likely for someone to heal completely and healthily if they leave the betrayer. Doesn't mean they can't meet them again one day, but you can't really expect to heal when the source of your agony is staring at you every day.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think it is good that you two made peace and are on friendlier terms. She sounds like she suffered a great deal because of her choices - a successful career means nothing if your personal life is in shambles. Do you think you two will ever date again?


If you have a successful career, financial stability, bills paid and roof ovwe your head thats more important than having all good situations in your social life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Vanguard said:


> I'd wager no, if someone resides in the grasp of the one who wounded them.
> 
> I think it's usually more likely for someone to heal completely and healthily if they leave the betrayer. Doesn't mean they can't meet them again one day, but you can't really expect to heal when the source of your agony is staring at you every day.


Over time you get used to it. But yes at first this was a nightmare. There were days I would walk into the house after work and the emotions would be so overpowering I would have to turn around and leave. I can respect anyone who chooses to leave because of this.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Over time you get used to it. But yes at first this was a nightmare. There were days I would walk into the house after work and the emotions would be so overpowering I would have to turn around and leave. I can respect anyone who chooses to leave because of this.


I wonder what percent of BS do leave?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

I like Wazza's approach. Somewhat aside, I think in time we all can remember a time before marriage. I did not look back to it until a year or so after the whatever it was that we do not speak of. I was happy, content, relatively carefree. Today I have kids and mortgages, country clubs, yacht clubs, camps, dentists, and the rest. And yet, in an odd sense, after a year or so, I have been able to remember the time before. For its simplicity. Like Camus's Meursault. The sunsets are mesmerizing and the sunrises sublime. And I am hitting the ball well.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

I guess what I mean to say is that we carry the wounds we chose to carry.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> I guess what I mean to say is that we carry the wounds we chose to carry.


Have you gone to IC to help drop some of the baggage?


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

I am not sure I can fully heal. I suspect every thing he does and when I ask a question, he says I accuse him of stuff. I cannot heal if cannot question.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> I am not sure I can fully heal. I suspect every thing he does and when I ask a question, he says I accuse him of stuff. I cannot heal if cannot question.


Is he truly committed to reconciling or does he want to rug-sweep?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Have you gone to IC to help drop some of the baggage?


I have been to IC. And MC. I don't think any counseling I hace had to date has done anything to help me drop baggage. For a period, I just needed someone to talk to. And it has been a bit therapeutic, I think, talking things out and seeing expelled some stuff that was inside me. A bit like a vomitorium. But healing I think is something else. Embracing life.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> I have been to IC. And MC. I don't think any counseling I hace had to date has done anything to help me drop baggage. For a period, I just needed someone to talk to. And it has been a bit therapeutic, I think, talking things out and seeing expelled some stuff that was inside me. A bit like a vomitorium. But healing I think is something else. Embracing life.


I wrote this somewhere earlier that the key is finding happiness in ourselves and nopt from the validation of others. That's a tough one...


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is he truly committed to reconciling or does he want to rug-sweep?


Rug sweep I think. He says he is committed to me and our marriage, but I don't have the warm fuzzies about it just yet. If I ask a question then I am accusing him of something.

Also he seems to care more about how hurt she is over him dumping her than the pain he caused his wife for 5 months, go figure.

I can pretty much see the writing on the wall, so I will go about my days trying to work on the marriage, but I just don't think he is 100% invested in doing much more than he has done the past couple weeks. I could be wrong, he talks about our future plans, retirement, traveling etc., but on the other hand I know he is still pining for her and possible talking with her if she calls him at work. She has also emailed a few times whining and moaning about how can she live yada yada, but to my knowledge no response unless he answers from work then deletes.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

pollywog said:


> Rug sweep I think. He says he is committed to me and our marriage, but I don't have the warm fuzzies about it just yet. If I ask a question then I am accusing him of something.
> 
> Also he seems to care more about how hurt she is over him dumping her than the pain he caused his wife for 5 months, go figure.
> 
> I can pretty much see the writing on the wall, so I will go about my days trying to work on the marriage, but I just don't think he is 100% invested in doing much more than he has done the past couple weeks. I could be wrong, he talks about our future plans, retirement, traveling etc., but on the other hand I know he is still pining for her and possible talking with her if she calls him at work. She has also emailed a few times whining and moaning about how can she live yada yada, but to my knowledge no response unless he answers from work then deletes.


If he's not 100% should you even been attempting an R? Could it be a false R? It sounds like he is not doing the heavy lifting....


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

When I was 17, I spent a lot of time rollerblading. I got pretty good on stairs, railings, jumps etc. I used to be fearless, willing to try almost anything.

Then one day I had a really nasty spill, severely dislocating my left knee. After an ambulance ride to the ER to relocate it, I ended up needing a follow up surgery to repair some significant ligament damage I had caused. Then it was many months of physical rehab. 

Today, 20 years later, I am fully healed. But I still have the scar on my knee cap from the surgery. And I don't approach rollerblading (or any other sport) with the same fearless mindset. I remember the fall, the pain and all the work to get back on my feet. 

So I am fully healed, but also forever changed.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Another grat post NH2


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## sang-froid (May 2, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Are you doing IC to help you through this?


No, so far I've been doing the self-help route. I think I've been putting it off because I'm not sure what I want the end result to be. I keep procrastinating putting my "here's my story" message on here for the same reason.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Can a BS ever fully heal? Those who have healed - how did you do it?


My situation: 25 years of R

My emotions were shattered in the first year so I divorced her but allowed her to stay in the home. She was broken and remorseful. I watched for 4 years and was convinced that her remorse and change was real.

I remarried her after 4 years but it was mostly prompted by my spiritual beliefs and children. My decision to remarry did in fact improve both my relationships to my children and faith. I did lose something with my relationship with my wife but what I lost was mostly an unreal expectation and fantasy about her never thinking of infidelity and her never betraying me. In other words I got a better realization of trust and human capabilities and expectations. No one is capable of 100% trust all the time. That is a truth for me and serves me well.

My marriage and life is a lot more good than bad. My wife has a lot of good points and fits me quite well. I still have affection for her. We do not have many friends because we are so close as a family and almost all of our social needs are met with our children, my parents, and sister and her family.

Here is what healed in me. I never think of the infidelity and my emotions are not affected at all unless I read stuff like some of the posts on TAM and other places. I am around 98% sure that my wife will not commit infidelity again. If she did she would not devastate me like the first time. Like I said our marriage is a LOT more good than bad but when she does something selfish it still affects me. Her selfishness does not drive me back to her infidelity so much that that issue comes alive but the current selfishness is magnified because it is another layer of a violation of love.

Back to what healed in me. I can laugh with her and others, I am not bitter, I like to do things for her, I really enjoy my children and life, I have self respect, and I am stronger spiritually. In short I am fairly contented with my life.

*How did you do it?*
I got a lot of help from family, spiritual truths, and my following those spiritual truths most of the time. Probably the biggest factor as to how I did it was that I was of the mind set that I need to *forget as much as possible about the injustice and make the best of it* (when you have been given lemons make lemonade) . One very important way that I made the best of it was that I did a lot of things to improve me. I reached out more to my loved ones, I followed my spiritual path most of the time, I went back and finished my community college degree that I started many years ago, I got better at my work and worked on my financial future. In short, I concentrated on improving myself.* I think that me making myself as self reliant (mental, emotionally, spiritually, physically) as possible was by far the major reason that I have the significant healing that I have.*

Also, I am convinced my wife has been faithful and not committed any more infidelity for 25 years. In addition, my children and other family members and I are very close, my health and financial situation is good, and I have done fairly well in following my spiritual truths. I realize that the many positive things in my life come mostly from God and that I have to do my part.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> My situation: 25 years of R
> 
> My emotions were shattered in the first year so I divorced her but allowed her to stay in the home. She was broken and remorseful. I watched for 4 years and was convinced that her remorse and change was real.
> 
> ...


Good post Blunt...did you see other women in those 4 years you were divorced?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Good post Blunt...did you see other women in those 4 years you were divorced?





No I did not see any other women nor did I want to. Probably because the sting of infidelity has the power to make cheating very unattractive.

I had one offer that I did not seek but it lacked the excitement that I thought that it would.


Blunt


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> No I did not see any other women nor did I want to. Probably because the sting of infidelity has the power to make cheating very unattractive.
> 
> I had one offer that I did not seek but it lacked the excitement that I thought that it would.
> 
> ...


As long as you are content in your choices..good for you Blunt...


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> No I did not see any other women nor did I want to. Probably because the sting of infidelity has the power to make cheating very unattractive.
> 
> I had one offer that I did not seek but it lacked the excitement that I thought that it would.
> 
> ...


It would not have been cheating.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> It would not have been cheating.


Agreed..some BS need to go out and see other people and some don't..I think it's a personality driven thing...I don't judge either path...the key is whatever gets the BS to a better place....


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

If I read that right, he was divorced for 4 years and that was the period referenced. Seems to me that if you have divorced or otherwise separated your lives or severed the promise of monogamy, it's not cheating. It's the new paradigm, even though you may not have asked for it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> If I read that right, he was divorced for 4 years and that was the period referenced. Seems to me that if you have divorced or otherwise separated your lives or severed the promise of monogamy, it's not cheating. It's the new paradigm, even though you may not have asked for it.


Yes he was....but even those who separate and date or have a RA some people need to strike back to move forward...I just think it's based on a person's personality...


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Yes he was....but even those who separate and date or have a RA some people need to strike back to move forward...I just think it's based on a person's personality...


Understood. And if Mr. Blunt felt like it would have been betrayal, then maybe it would have been. Or maybe not. I am agnostic.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Harken Banks said:


> Understood. And if Mr. Blunt felt like it would have been betrayal, then maybe it would have been. Or maybe not. I am agnostic.


I agree with you 100% it would not have been a betrayal...since they were divorced he was free to see who he wanted...


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

With my head and heart where they were during the days after DDay, and had we separated as a couple, although I could go out and get laid, my spirit would not be into it. And frankly, I need that in a relationship. Wasn't always that way. But I get Blunt's attitude about it. If you really do want to work things out with WS, you have to do things for yourself, not your genitals. Some of us are just getting too old for that crap.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> With my head and heart where they were during the days after DDay, and had we separated as a couple, although I could go out and get laid, my spirit would not be into it. And frankly, I need that in a relationship. Wasn't always that way. But I get Blunt's attitude about it. If you really do want to work things out with WS, you have to do things for yourself, not your genitals. Some of us are just getting too old for that crap.


Fair enough, but we are talking about a time when he was not only not married but divorced.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> With my head and heart where they were during the days after DDay, and had we separated as a couple, although I could go out and get laid, my spirit would not be into it. And frankly, I need that in a relationship. Wasn't always that way. But I get Blunt's attitude about it. If you really do want to work things out with WS, you have to do things for yourself, not your genitals. Some of us are just getting too old for that crap.


I can see your point...it all depends on the BS and what they need to move forward


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by doubletrouble
> With my head and heart where they were during the days after DDay, and had we separated as a couple, although I could go out and get laid, *my spirit would not be into it*. And frankly, I need that in a relationship. Wasn't always that way. But I get Blunt's attitude about it. If you really do want to work things out with WS, *you have to do things for yourself,* not your genitals. Some of us are just getting too old for that crap.



By Truthseeker
I can see your point...it all depends on the BS and what they *need to move forward*


*Like DoubleTrouble, my spirit was not into it. I am no great moral guy it was just that I had no desire for having sex. I do not take the credit for that.

In addition to having no desire, I believed that keeping myself from having sex would benefit me in the long haul.

This is what I needed to move forward. That in fact did move me forward.*


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> By Truthseeker
> I can see your point...it all depends on the BS and what they *need to move forward*
> 
> 
> ...


*Then you did the right thing.*...you need to do what will move you forward..the objective is peace and happiness and how we get there is dependent upon our personalities...:smthumbup:


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I have been lurking on these boards for quite sometime. I see people still writing about and disscussing their spouses affairs some as long as 20-30 years out. Can a BS ever fully heal? Those who have healed - how did you do it?


Different for each. I say no. Most had unconditional trust taken away and they will never give that level of trust to anyone again. IMO.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

jupiter13 said:


> I will never completely "heal" if that is the word to use, which I think it is not. This has opened old wounds that had already shaped me. As it is we will never have a great marriage or the one I had dreamed of, or the one that could have been. It can be a good marriage but there will also never be the trust that we had once, I don't feel that I will ever support the things he wants to do with complete faith or energy either. Somehow I have become bitter, and more selfish. It is now about me and what I want what makes me happy or not. There is no more self sacrificing by me for his happiness he got his way he won't have the ability to do it again. He says he has leaned about himself and grown up at my expense and that sums it up. Nothing will be at my expense again. How do you forgive? I have to a certain degree I understand what he was thinking and doing but it is not an acceptable excuse ever again. He knows if it ever happens again even flirting any lying or false directed statements will break this. He has already told the MC that it has been through me he has learned what love is (yeah right ) and if it wasn't for me he would most likely be dead or in prison. Whoppee! I should could have lived another life time without this.


So in fact then what you’re saying is your H set up your marriage to fail by his actions and now you’re setting it up to fail by your lack of being willing to invest in it again? Both selfish behaviors for a marriage and it will ether result in the total annihilation of the marriage or you both living in misery for the rest of your lives. If that is your thought, then why not end it now?

Please do not think that I lack empathy with your situation, it’s because I totally understand your feelings that Im asking you that question. I had a couple reconciliations with my XH and would have had another one again if he could have had his way. I went into one reconciliation with the belief that I had to forgive and for the sake of a happy marriage, put it and the emotional baggage that comes with being a BS behind me. It took IC and MC for me to be able to do it but I succeeded! I loved my H more than ever gave him 110% (because he said all the things yours is saying right now, I made him a better person, he would have been dead without me... ect.... ) I was determined that we were going to succeed and have a happy and good life!

Then when the next affair happened I eventually let him come back because of his health, congestive heart failure. He eventually weaseled his way back into all aspects of a married life with me but did not get my trust, or my love. I sounded very much like your post above. I protected my heart with an iron shield, guess what it doesn’t work. 
When this last affair happened It was not even a question for me as to ending my marriage. I didn’t even hesitate. Yet it hurt more than words can describe. So why didn’t I end it the last time? 
That last shard of hope maybe that he would end up being a different man, an honorable man? Are you deep down hoping for that? If not then why put either of you through more years of mediocrity?

I don’t regret the years I gave it my all because I was fighting for something that could have been great. I do regret giving any more time when I knew that it was only a dream and would never be a reality. If you believe it can be a reality, and then strive for it! Fight for it! If not and you believe it’s hopeless then get out…


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

doureallycare2 said:


> So in fact then what you’re saying is your H set up your marriage to fail by his actions and now you’re setting it up to fail by your lack of being willing to invest in it again? Both selfish behaviors for a marriage and it will ether result in the total annihilation of the marriage or you both living in misery for the rest of your lives. If that is your thought, then why not end it now?
> 
> Please do not think that I lack empathy with your situation, it’s because I totally understand your feelings that Im asking you that question. I had a couple reconciliations with my XH and would have had another one again if he could have had his way. I went into one reconciliation with the belief that I had to forgive and for the sake of a happy marriage, put it and the emotional baggage that comes with being a BS behind me. It took IC and MC for me to be able to do it but I succeeded! I loved my H more than ever gave him 110% (because he said all the things yours is saying right now, I made him a better person, he would have been dead without me... ect.... ) I was determined that we were going to succeed and have a happy and good life!
> 
> ...


Sorry for your situation..has your ex effected your current view of men and relationships?


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

thank you TruthSeeker,

I would like to say no, I have some wonderful male friends that I would say are honerable and honest. I have a great life and am learning to treasure all the oppertunities its bringing me. (that took a while)

We all have failings but if a person "man" is willing to communicate and address the weaknesses, to be hoenst with especially their spouce then they have a great oppertunity ahead of them for happiness. 

So I would not rule out finding the "right" man for me.

Saying that though, I am sceptical when meeting a new man that he is being forthright and honest. There is almost a "prove-it-to-me mentality". I need to be "coaxed" into trusting a new person, my guard is definitly up.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

doureallycare2 said:


> thank you TruthSeeker,
> 
> I would like to say no, I have some wonderful male friends that I would say are honerable and honest. I have a great life and am learning to treasure all the oppertunities its bringing me. (that took a while)
> 
> ...


Do you think your XH's infidelity has changed your outlook on relationships permanently?


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Do you think your XH's infidelity has changed your outlook on relationships permanently?




LOL...that is such a hard question, I have lived with his infidelity for 25 years (from when the first of many affairs happened) it probably did change my perspective permanently back then (no longer wearing rose colored glasses). But now? I would say no. 

Relationships are made of individuals, some can and will make it work, and others won’t for whatever reasons. Either way I think it takes hard work and "commitment" as well as love, friendship and passion.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

doureallycare2 said:


> LOL...that is such a hard question, I have lived with his infidelity for 25 years (from when the first of many affairs happened) it probably did change my perspective permanently back then (no longer wearing rose colored glasses). But now? I would say no.
> 
> Relationships are made of individuals, some can and will make it work, and others won’t for whatever reasons. Either way I think it takes hard work and "commitment" as well as love, friendship and passion.


Awesome! :smthumbup: I ask these questions because i'm trying to get to the bottom of how far and wide the destruction from infidelity goes. Never fully healing seems to be the norm..and WS, even those who reconcile, hold on to their excuses for doing what they did....even if they are sorry for doing it...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Awesome! :smthumbup: I ask these questions because i'm trying to get to the bottom of how far and wide the destruction from infidelity goes. Never fully healing seems to be the norm..and WS, even those who reconcile, hold on to their excuses for doing what they did....even if they are sorry for doing it...


They CAN'T even be truly sorry for doing it, because they haven't felt any significant pain unless the BS released their butt and let them hit the blunt corners and sharp edges themself. It takes years to realize the pain and devistation that you caused, and this is if you come out of cake-eating land. If you have alot of support in cake-eating land, you will be crapping on alot of people who care for like lilly pads as a frog hops from one to the next.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Awesome! :smthumbup: I ask these questions because i'm trying to get to the bottom of how far and wide the destruction from infidelity goes. Never fully healing seems to be the norm..and WS, even those who reconcile, hold on to their excuses for doing what they did....even if they are sorry for doing it...


Excuses? Reasons? 

Without defending infidelity, I think it is important for the wayward to understand how and why they did it. 

An excuse is a justification and has a ring of untruth to me. A reason is a valid fact that could have caused things.

Part of what helped me get my wife's affair into perspective was understanding the reasons it happened. That was a key factor in my ability to reconcile. A different set of reasons on her part may have triggered a different outcome from me.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Excuses? Reasons?
> 
> Without defending infidelity, I think it is important for the wayward to understand how and why they did it.
> 
> ...


People choose to cheat Wazza.....whatever excuses they give for doing it...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> People choose to cheat Wazza.....whatever excuses they give for doing it...


When they cross that hurdle into cheating land what keeps it going is entitlement, lust, also dopamine hits are registered with each phone conversation or secret meeting or the sex. It's hard to break away unless you've been there before!


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> People choose to cheat Wazza.....whatever excuses they give for doing it...


I agree. I don't think that changes the point I was making. The question of why they make such a choice is key to me. In particular, how in or out of character is it? Because that goes straight to the likelihood of a repetition.

An excuse is an attempt to justify. A reason is an attempt to explain. In my thinking anyway.

"Because they are dirty cheaters" is not explanation enough for me.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I agree. I don't think that changes the point I was making. The question of why they make such a choice is key to me. In particular, how in or of of character is it? Because that goes straight to the likelihood of a repetition.
> 
> An excuse is an attempt to justify. A reason is an attempt to explain. In my thinking anyway.
> 
> "Because they are dirty cheaters" is not explanation enough for me.


Sometimes that IS the answer and they have accepted that.

Other times it's not so clear. They may not have cheated, but got onto a path in which it became more attractive.

A normal path: married guy, hanging with single friends in the bars for fun. Part of his fun is he flirts with and looks at females while his friends occasionally do hookups. Alcohol and music is mixed. The constant party appears more "fun" than his predictable and stable marriage. The single babes are dressed to attract, and his wife is dependable nearly like clockwork, he loves his wife.

Time goes on and on, and then a couple of bachelors parties with strippers, etc, etc. He's whispering into ears, getting girls on his lap, grabbing him, phone numbers, snuck in phone conversations...

A lady knows he's married but handsome, she flatters him. Gets her over to her house asks if he'd like to have sex with her. He figures he can do it one time and go home, it really doesn't matter.

Kinda like that.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I agree. I don't think that changes the point I was making. The question of why they make such a choice is key to me. In particular, how in or of of character is it? Because that goes straight to the likelihood of a repetition.
> 
> An excuse is an attempt to justify. A reason is an attempt to explain. In my thinking anyway.
> 
> "Because they are dirty cheaters" is not explanation enough for me.


Thanks for clarifying......


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Sometimes that IS the answer and they have accepted that.
> 
> Other times it's not so clear. They may not have cheated, but got onto a path in which it became more attractive.
> 
> ...


I agree. Sometimes it is like that, and that is someone I would not try to reconcile with. The start of this path you describe was an enabling crowd. If my wife were still with the enabling crowd from the first affair, I would not be with her. That is an example of what I am talking about.

I am darn sure that if I followed the path you describe I would end up cheating. So I don't do it. But sadly, I know about this and have thought through it because my wife's affair has been the start if a master class in infidelity.

Likewise I am sure that if my wife starts down the same path she did before cheating again is a high possibility. Some aspects of what happened last time cannot happen again, but you better believe I watch for the others!!!! My guard will never totally be down again.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wazza said:


> I agree. Sometimes it is like that, and that is someone I would not try to reconcile with. The start of this path you describe was an enabling crowd. If my wife were still with the enabling crowd from the first affair, I would not be with her. That is an example of what I am talking about.
> 
> I am darn sure that if I followed the path you describe I would end up cheating. So I don't do it. But sadly, I know about this and have thought through it because my wife's affair has been the start if a master class in infidelity.
> 
> Likewise I am sure that if my wife starts down the same path she did before cheating again is a high possibility. Some aspects of what happened last time cannot happen again, but you better believe I watch for the others!!!! My guard will never totally be down again.


Each story is unique in some way....the common denominator is choice and selfishness


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> It seems to me it is also about how important the acts of sex are to that person. How deeply personal do they feel the act is for them. The less personal, the less likely they are, in my opinion, to see the act of betrayal as hurtful as it is to their spouse. I also think that is why the bs is more or less affected by the physical affair.
> 
> If you have been around her long enough and have read enough on the subject, you begin to see patterns forming that seem to back my points.
> 
> Men seem to be harmed more by a wife in a physical affair and women seem to be harmed more by a husband in an emotional affair.


Agree 100% not to diminish anyones pain but when I hear of a wife's EA I almost breathe a sigh of relief and think "is that all" - I KNOW EAs can be destructive (before anyone flames me) but I don't view them in the same vein as a LT PA...


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I wonder why that is? So it’s better that your wife fall in love but not have sex, rather than to have sex without being in love? 

Do you think that maybe a woman’s affections are fickle and she will get over it? If a woman gives her "love" to someone else there is a piece of her you will never get back. It’s a part of her soul and her reason for living, sex without love is just a physical release. 
If she gives her love away, she will never think of you the same way she did.
Interesting.........


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

doureallycare2 said:


> I wonder why that is? So it’s better that your wife fall in love but not have sex, rather than to have sex without being in love?
> 
> Do you think that maybe a woman’s affections are fickle and she will get over it? If a woman gives her "love" to someone else there is a piece of her you will never get back. It’s a part of her soul and her reason for living, sex without love is just a physical release.
> If she gives her love away, she will never think of you the same way she did.
> Interesting.........


I'm sure for some men an EA is just as devastating..but for some reason the thought of her naked in bed with another man and all that entails is HARD to deal with....maybe its because an EA could be just a fantasy which would be spoiled by the reality of being in a relationship with the person...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Just a guess here. I know I used to think of sex with other women all the time. Single or married, if I was attracted, I was attracted. I could do nothing about the feeling or thoughts when I saw a beautiful woman. I may even have a slight crush. It was normal. It was not something I could control. It was a part of life. I don't know why it happens. It just is.
> 
> The thing is, I could feel that way as in a desire for sex and even a crush, but as long as I did not do the deed, it was okay somehow. I did not talk about it because I did not want to hurt any feelings or the relationship and I knew those feelings would pass. *It was the act that sealed those feelings for me. The act put the stamp on the feelings and closed the deal.*
> 
> I have no idea if anyone else is like that. I know I was and I suppose I still am. I haven't really checked. I have been so out of it, I don't want to involve someone else in my life. I am too afraid of fouling everything up. I still want to know about relationships, though. I think it is important to know where and how I went wrong and address those things and live better. If I can.


:iagree:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Just a guess here. I know I used to think of sex with other women all the time. Single or married, if I was attracted, I was attracted. I could do nothing about the feeling or thoughts when I saw a beautiful woman. I may even have a slight crush. It was normal. It was not something I could control. It was a part of life. I don't know why it happens. It just is.
> 
> The thing is, I could feel that way as in a desire for sex and even a crush, but as long as I did not do the deed, it was okay somehow. I did not talk about it because I did not want to hurt any feelings or the relationship and I knew those feelings would pass. It was the act that sealed those feelings for me. The act put the stamp on the feelings and closed the deal.
> 
> I have no idea if anyone else is like that. I know I was and I suppose I still am. I haven't really checked. I have been so out of it, I don't want to involve someone else in my life. I am too afraid of fouling everything up. I still want to know about relationships, though. I think it is important to know where and how I went wrong and address those things and live better. If I can.


I used to be like that too.

So you don't feel like this anymore? How is your sex drive and sex life? Has the rest of it diminished with this change in view, or has it honed your focus on your signicant other?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Used to? I believe I still am. Sex life? What's that? I haven't had sex since June 3, 2011. That's the last time my x2 had sex with me. I came home from work on the 6th and she told me she was leaving. My life will not be the same. I have no trust in anyone. I have terrible anxiety attacks. I can barely get through a day. When I go outside, I get exhausted from emotion and thoughts. I don't know if I will ever be in another relationship. I am trying to work through it, but it's very slow.
> 
> Sex drive is not great, but getting a little better. I cannot think long about anyone else. I was not even aware that other women were attractive for a long, long time. I am only just starting to look at women. Yes, just look at them. For two plus years I've lowered my head when out. I looked at few people. Oh yes, I am hurt that badly. I have no significant other. I am still recovering. I am still learning about myself. I am still trying to put the pieces of my life back together. I don't suspect I will ever find them all. I am working on it the best I can.


Is your XW with the POSOM? How are the kids reacting to this?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Used to? I believe I still am. Sex life? What's that? I haven't had sex since June 3, 2011. That's the last time my x2 had sex with me. I came home from work on the 6th and she told me she was leaving. My life will not be the same. I have no trust in anyone. I have terrible anxiety attacks. I can barely get through a day. When I go outside, I get exhausted from emotion and thoughts. I don't know if I will ever be in another relationship. I am trying to work through it, but it's very slow.
> 
> Sex drive is not great, but getting a little better. I cannot think long about anyone else. I was not even aware that other women were attractive for a long, long time. I am only just starting to look at women. Yes, just look at them. For two plus years I've lowered my head when out. I looked at few people. Oh yes, I am hurt that badly. I have no significant other. I am still recovering. I am still learning about myself. I am still trying to put the pieces of my life back together. I don't suspect I will ever find them all. I am working on it the best I can.


Go have sex with someone, put this in your mind and itll happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't know if I can. That part of me is dead right now. I don't know if I will ever get it back. That last day of sex with x2 was immediately after she had sex with someone else. I knew soon as we started. A day or two after she left, she called while she was making sounds like she was giving some guy a bj. He may have used her phone to dial me. I went to the hospital the next day when I found that my dear mother was being moved into the home. Two ambulances came to mum's apartment that day; one for mum and one for me. Mum died earlier this year. I miss her. She suffered and there was nothing I could do. I was so out of it........I pray I will be forgiven for not having the strength I needed at the time. It's all I can do. I speak only to my sister, now. I have no family. There is no price too high for all those who hurt me to pay. None. I won't exact the toll. Life has a funny way of doing that all on it's own.


God will take care of your 2x don't worry. Its a tough story to read just know you're not alone, find your own peace and go for it. Someone out there is looking for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't know if I can. That part of me is dead right now. I don't know if I will ever get it back.


You think it's dead. It's like a former athelete that's sat on their butt for 10 years, drinking beers, eating cakes... Get off the couch and workout and changeup the diet the lard will come off.

Your sex side is not dead. You feed it by thinking about it first, and using it. You have to use it, it has to be talked to, communmicated to and it will come back to live.



2ntnuf said:


> That last day of sex with x2 was immediately after she had sex with someone else. I knew soon as we started. A day or two after she left, she called while she was making sounds like she was giving some guy a bj.


That would break most peoples ego, if she was the only one. However there are 3 billion women on the face of the earth. Pick another, move on. You will laugh at yourself for not detaching from this one and allowing her to hurt you like this.



2ntnuf said:


> He may have used her phone to dial me. I went to the hospital the next day when I found that my dear mother was being moved into the home. Two ambulances came to mum's apartment that day; one for mum and one for me. Mum died earlier this year. I miss her.


So much emotional burden and pain and you are focused ont he negative aspects of it. What are the positive aspects of your life and if there are not any, what ones do you need to be creating?



2ntnuf said:


> She suffered and there was nothing I could do. I was so out of it........I pray I will be forgiven for not having the strength I needed at the time. It's all I can do. I speak only to my sister, now. I have no family.


You have you... You are staying focused on the negative, yes there is plenty of it to focus on. Why not focus on you and what you want and what you need to do!



2ntnuf said:


> There is no price too high for all those who hurt me to pay. None. I won't exact the toll. Life has a funny way of doing that all on it's own.


Let it go and move onto greener pastures.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I wasn't there for them when they needed me. I was with x2. Son wanted me to give him money and I didn't have it. He needed it for college. Daughter, not sure. I know, when I read in some threads that Kathy Batesel writes about how the mother will pull the children away from the biological father and make them the children of the step father, that's what happened. I don't remember what she calls it. I haven't read up on it because it's no longer an issue. They are grown. I worked hard while I was married with x2 to try and get to know them again. I just could not pull it all off.


Are yourt kids close to their mom and stepfather?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Emotionally? Yes as far as I know.
> 
> I have accepted it as much as I can.


did she marry her AP?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> First wife? Yes.


Sheesh..sorry man...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

These stories would drive any single person far away from marriage...far away...


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I'm sure for some men an EA is just as devastating..but for some reason the thought of her naked in bed with another man and all that entails is HARD to deal with....maybe its because an EA could be just a fantasy which would be spoiled by the reality of being in a relationship with the person...


It's not just the fantasy part...My FWH's A was EA long before it went PA. They talked...every day. It started with her stealing his phone # out of my SIL's phone after she saw him at my MIL's house. She would find excuses to call him, ask about my MIL, question about her car making a noise...eventually led to her complaining about her alcoholic, abusive relationship with her husband. He became her KISA, then he started talking to her. Not just about her stuff, but about me. MY LIFE. Secrets I thought were safe with him that I had never told another soul, he told her. He also talked to her about MY son, MY job(s). He became emotionally attached to her, and detached from me. I believe if it had never gone PA I would still be just as devastated. He had developed a secret friendship and an emotional bond with someone else. It was VERY hard for him to put her down. I found out everything I could about her. She's not prettier than I am, although she's eight years younger. My WH told me there was "no comparison" physically. I thought he was just being nice, until I saw the cow. EA's that never go PA, in my opinion, do just as much damage to the BS's soul. Do I wish my H's A had never gone PA? Sure. But I would still be here. With all of you.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm not sure if I ever posted in this thread, but it's been about 7 1/2 months for me.

Yes, people can heal. I feel like now I can really see the other side of this. It's still some ways off. But i'm getting there. It's not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning (as so famously said.) 

The further out i've gotten, the triggers become less and less. Some days the affair doesn't even occur to me anymore. 

What was once a fixture of my life and the sole focus of most my waking time has slowly been replaced with a relentless determination to replace all I lost with better. 

From my experience, it's better if your FWS doesn't help you at all. It makes you rely more on yourself. You begin to trust your own judgement again and regain a sense of self lost in years of marriage.

I think if FWW had helped me then I wouldn't have become so detached. I moved through this, and still do, on my own. With my own feet putting one in front of the other. 

That inspires a sense of power I haven't felt in more than a decade. 

I used to tell myself in the beginning, bold faced lying to myself "You're capable, you can do it." I wanted to believe it, but it felt like a lie. Something your friend says to puff you up, even though you both know better. 

Just like any other lie, say it long enough and it becomes true. I believe it now, but shortened to the most fundamental equation I have seen. I = CAN. 

May sound like hooey to some, but I believe it now. I've done a lot, saw enough to know I was too easy on myself. I had these built in safety limits to my life, not knowing how far I could relax them. I know my future can be better than my past. 

Fake it till you make it seems to work pretty darn well.

I've learned when you see yourself doing things. Taking care of yourself, moving forward, whatever it is. Your opinion of yourself changes. For me it was originally "I dont take care of myself. I don't socialize or have friends." You start going out, taking care of yourself, having new friends and suddenly your opinion of yourself changes because you see a reality that doesn't fit with old opinions. You can't think "Oh i'm worthless" because a worthless person doesn't take care of themselves. Or "I can never get another woman" because you see women interested all the time. 

I hope i explained it well enough.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I don't know if I can. That part of me is dead right now. I don't know if I will ever get it back. That last day of sex with x2 was immediately after she had sex with someone else. I knew soon as we started. A day or two after she left, she called while she was making sounds like she was giving some guy a bj. He may have used her phone to dial me. I went to the hospital the next day when I found that my dear mother was being moved into the home. Two ambulances came to mum's apartment that day; one for mum and one for me. Mum died earlier this year. I miss her. She suffered and there was nothing I could do. I was so out of it........I pray I will be forgiven for not having the strength I needed at the time. It's all I can do. I speak only to my sister, now. I have no family. There is no price too high for all those who hurt me to pay. None. I won't exact the toll. Life has a funny way of doing that all on it's own.



2ntnuf:

have you ever enertained the notion that your x2 was/is, at the fundamental level, garbage? if you think of her in that way now, it could help you let go of whatever judgements she made about you.

I mean you no disrespect in this, because I know at one time you loved her and thought very highly of her. that's when she was fooling you on what her true character really was. On the other hand you were not being a fool yourself - becauase these kinds of people often come wrapped in the most beautiful "paper" one could imagine. fun to be with, attractive, good career, maybe even active in charities or their church and any number of (seeming) good qualities. but for them creating such a beautiful package is second nature - it is how they survive in the world - ingrained, literally part of their personality.
I have been "fooled" like this before.

But marrriage necessarily removes their wrapping, eventually; their partners may then go into a period of drawn out denial on just how rotten the person on the inside truly is. I think for many BS I see post here, "R" is nothing more than this period of drawn out denial.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> 2ntnuf:
> 
> 
> But marrriage necessarily removes their wrapping, eventually; their partners may then go into a period of drawn out denial on just how rotten the person on the inside truly is. I think for many BS I see post here, "R" is nothing more than this period of drawn out denial.


I think there is a fundamental truth to this. 

Personally, I also think checking on the FWS is another form of denial.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Yes, you pretty much covered it in a nutshell. No, I'm not angry with your post, at all. It is what I have been trying to convince myself. It is also difficult because I thought I chose well. It caused me to question all that I was and am now.
> 
> Starting over is so difficult. I am at a loss to describe my feelings. Thank you for your comments.


We all think we have the right person. That we got lucky with the 1 of 1000 that is perfect for us. 

I think those of us who believe that most are the ones most let down by the cheating. 

I think the fear of starting over comes from a lack of faith in your own self. 

For me, when I found out my wife cheated, and even before that my self esteem was shattered. I had been run into the ground by everyone for years on end. My family, her family, FWW, life, customers. I didn't care about myself. 

Those keep coming like hammer blows. The good news is, it's all about you. The bad news is, its all about you. No one can make you what you want to be, and they can't put you where you want to go. 

The pain now can be new strength tomorrow, but only if you make it happen.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

awake1 said:


> We all think we have the right person. That we got lucky with the 1 of 1000 that is perfect for us.
> 
> I think those of us who believe that most are the ones most let down by the cheating.
> 
> ...


So being cheated on can start a negative chain reaction where you are taking it from all sides?


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

I personally, have no intention of ever getting married again. I bought into the whole "love forever" and "trust and loyalty".

Was sorely disappointed. The things my ex did to me I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I may, however, get involved with someone again, eventually. I may consider living with someone.

But I won't buy into it like I did with my ex. Never again. 

Funny... my boss's daughter got engaged this past week. She was telling us all about it - the big wedding, all the romance and hopes and dreams. I nearly laughed. My boss and her husband are forking out a fortune for the wedding and I felt like saying - don't do it - tell them to go to Vegas!!!!

BTW I should ask my ex to repay my father the small fortune he spent on our wedding. I wanted to go to the courthouse, my ex wanted the big dream wedding. My dad footed the bill as my ex was broke back then too.

I feel SO guilty about my parents forking out all that money for this disaster. I feel like I want to pay my dad back myself. What a complete and utter waste of cash!


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Good Question Btw!

It has been about five years and as of this year I just now got to a peaceful place of not only forgiveness, anger, rejection, hurt, and pain I got to a better place indifference, but happy. 
It was bad I use to wish ill will toward my ex I wanted him to feel the pain and embarrassment he caused me for the seven years I spent with him. And I had to except my mistakes, my faults, and my short comings as well. Oh trust me I know full well that it is was not my fault but I didn't exactly help things either. Part of it was age and experience, I made every single mistake you can think of. I really wish I knew about TAM when I was younger, but in a way it was a blessing in disguise because I knew what I wanted and I knew what I didn't want in a relationship.


I can't answer for all BS because I can't. I can say though if we were married with kids, and had the house etc, I can see why a lot of BS are so angry, I can see why some can't nor won't forgive, and I can understand to a certain degree why some would want to reconcile. I'm a firm believer that people have just as much power as you let them to have. For me forgiveness is not forgetting, but moving on emotionally where your not tied to the pain that caused it. It's not enough to just be the bigger person, I think that is BS. 

It takes a hell of a lot to forgive someone who cheats on you it is one of the worst kind of betrayal. One thing I learned form my experience with a serial cheater was that I didn't want to admit that I didn't have what it took to leave not at first. I did the trust but verify, but that didn't help it made things worse because deep down at least for me I couldn't live that way. Even if my ex didn't cheat again and he was clean I knew I couldn't forget about it. And that drove me nuts. 

It wasn't just my ex cheated several times, it was the fact that he cheated and I couldn't deal with that it took me years to figure it out it took me a long time to realize that I couldn't make someone love me or stop cheating, and in order for me to be happy I had to step up for myself and walk away. The triggers were too much, the lying was overwhelming, and my conscious wasn't clear. It was muddled, fragmented, broken, and hurt.

I can't answer for other BS but I can say this you have to be happy and make the right choices for you, and I don't mean the fake a** for keeping appearances, or staying for the kids because that is crutch. I mean true peace and happiness with the choices we make, no regrets, and although there might be some bumps here and there you especially know your self worth and what it takes to move forward.


It took me years to figure out that I wasn't with the right person
and just because some reconcile it doesn't mean they should have. It just means they made a choice. And with that choice will bear consequences, or happiness. And just because you leave it doesn't make you a bad person, or weak because you have to be honest with yourself and your life. 

The weird thing about triggers is you could be perfectly fine and BAM something so small could bring you to tears or make you upset. But we have to remember that we have the power, we have the control, we decide what makes us or breaks us. (And I'm not talking about BS situations where DD just happened because that is natural.) And I could be wrong but I also think for those that did R, the triggers are not only more frequent but also seems to last a bit longer because in all your still with the person that cheated on you behind your back. 


Sorry about the long winded answer, your question was how did you get to that point? For me I had to experience every emotion, every tear every single thought about our relationship, I had to keep picking at it until I was done picking at it. I realize where my faults were and what my strengths were, and most importantly I know this sounds so cliche but I really really had to forgive myself, I was so angry at myself for letting me stay with him for as long as I did. I had to let it go and I had to be ready to let it go, I felt that my anger was the only thing I had control over it was the only thing I had that he didn't take away from me, or so I thought. I felt I had the right to stay mad at him for all these years because in truth I felt powerless. 

And going through all of that of course I was wrong!!!
I made a choice to love and live my life and to move forward I didn't want to be victim but a survivor. We get one shot one chance in life and it is incredibly short. Life is to damn short to wallow in pain and suffering off of someone else mistakes. The moment I realized that not only did I not want to be angry anymore and I wanted him to suffer, the moment I really felt free, life is a long time and I believe in karma.  


The only thing we can control are ourselves and that is handful in itself. The road to happiness and acceptance is a rocky one a very rocky one but you can get there if you want it that bad enough, if you chose to let it go and move forward. Because if you don't you will stay stuck and angry and a victim. I refuse to let anyone do that to me life is a long time and I'm not leaving this world like that.
And besides if I let my ex then I would have never ever ever ever would have let my husband in to help me see that.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

calmwinds said:


> It's not just the fantasy part...My FWH's A was EA long before it went PA. They talked...every day. It started with her stealing his phone # out of my SIL's phone after she saw him at my MIL's house. She would find excuses to call him, ask about my MIL, question about her car making a noise...eventually led to her complaining about her alcoholic, abusive relationship with her husband. He became her KISA, then he started talking to her. Not just about her stuff, but about me. MY LIFE.* Secrets I thought were safe with him that I had never told another soul, he told her. He also talked to her about MY son, MY job(s). * He became emotionally attached to her, and detached from me. I believe if it had never gone PA I would still be just as devastated. He had developed a secret friendship and an emotional bond with someone else. It was VERY hard for him to put her down. I found out everything I could about her. She's not prettier than I am, although she's eight years younger. My WH told me there was "no comparison" physically. I thought he was just being nice, until I saw the cow. EA's that never go PA, in my opinion, do just as much damage to the BS's soul. Do I wish my H's A had never gone PA? Sure. But I would still be here. With all of you.


I see your point that is a DEEP betrayal, how is your R going? Could you ever trust him again given the fact that he not only cheated but divulged secrets?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

awake1 said:


> I'm not sure if I ever posted in this thread, but it's been about 7 1/2 months for me.
> 
> Yes, people can heal. I feel like now I can really see the other side of this. It's still some ways off. But i'm getting there. It's not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning (as so famously said.)
> 
> ...


I'm glad you are mking through this mess Awake...


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

It's like a ugly wound. It will heal but there is always going to be an ugly scar for the rest of your life.

It's healed but every day you'll be looking at that scar and go hmmm. But with all things, once it's been a part of you for so long, eventually you either get used to it and life goes on or you decide to get plastic surgery (in other words kick them to the curb) and get the scar removed forever and start over new.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

krismimo said:


> Good Question Btw!
> 
> *I realized that not only did I not want to be angry anymore and I wanted him to suffer, the moment I really felt free, life is a long time and I believe in karma.
> 
> ...


Great post thanks for the insights...so you are happily married now?


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Great post thanks for the insights...so you are happily married now?


Yes happily married  I never thought I would have that and I for a long time I felt as though I didn't deserve it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

CH said:


> It's like a ugly wound. It will heal but there is always going to be an ugly scar for the rest of your life.
> 
> It's healed but every day you'll be looking at that scar and go hmmm. But with all things, once it's been a part of you for so long, eventually you either get used to it and life goes on or you decide to get plastic surgery (in other words kick them to the curb) and *get the scar removed forever and start over new*.


Do you think the scar can ever be removed even with a new relationship?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Do you think the scar can ever be removed even with a new relationship?


Oh... You can end up MUCH better off in a new relationship if the old one was bad, and you forgave and move on, and didn't carry any baggage into the new one.

The relative difference can be huge.

Someone or something that appreciates you and takes care of you is so much more than someone or something that doesn't.

You cannot carry the pain from the old one or hold your guard, causing the new person to also hold their guard.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Oh... You can end up MUCH better off in a new relationship if the old one was bad, and you forgave and move on, and didn't carry any baggage into the new one.
> 
> The relative difference can be huge.
> 
> ...



Good point..I guess some BS seem so damaged by their WS infidelity they close themselves off to the prospect of a new love..a BETTER FAITHFUL love....


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Good point..I guess some BS seem so damaged by their WS infidelity they close themselves off to the prospect of a new love..a BETTER FAITHFUL love....


Sometimes we make the new one into the old... Because we have been "molded"... our expectation, our response, our body languages and assumptions, can inject the old viewpoint into the new one...

But I'm with you for a better and faithful love, they are out there just like we are on TAM...


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I see your point that is a DEEP betrayal, how is your R going? Could you ever trust him again given the fact that he not only cheated but divulged secrets?


Our R is progressing day-by-day. Trust is hard. He calls me and texts me frequently throughout the day. He has really stepped up. I haven't posted my entire story but have put some pieces out there. He had an "aha moment" that jolted him out of the fog and made him realize the pain he had caused me, and works every day to try to restore my faith in him. That said, I still think about it every day. I still monitor him, and her, even though she is now cheating with some other MM. Some days go so well that it seems as if it was all just a horrible dream. Other days, through no fault of his doing anything CURRENTLY- I hate him. I have said before that "we" will be ok, but that "I" may never be. Triggers are frequent and they suck! But, I love him and cannot imagine a life without him in it. If he had chosen her, I doubt I would have ever had another serious relationship. The day I told him that if he needed or wanted her in his life in any capacity, then I didn't need or want him in mine, I was serious and he knew it. He tells me now that he doesn't deserve me, but that he will, just watch and see.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

calmwinds said:


> Our R is progressing day-by-day. Trust is hard. He calls me and texts me frequently throughout the day. He has really stepped up. I haven't posted my entire story but have put some pieces out there. He had an "aha moment" that jolted him out of the fog and made him realize the pain he had caused me, and works every day to try to restore my faith in him. That said, I still think about it every day. I still monitor him, and her, even though she is now cheating with some other MM. Some days go so well that it seems as if it was all just a horrible dream. Other days, through no fault of his doing anything CURRENTLY- I hate him. *I have said before that "we" will be ok, but that "I" may never be. Triggers are frequent and they suck!* *But, I love him and cannot imagine a life without him in it. * If he had chosen her, I doubt I would have ever had another serious relationship. The day I told him that if he needed or wanted her in his life in any capacity, then I didn't need or want him in mine, I was serious and he knew it. He tells me now that he doesn't deserve me, but that he will, just watch and see.


I hope you can find that place of peace and happiness for yourself..I really do


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

One more thing...on the divulging secrets thing. I think in many EA/PA relationships, this is not the exception. Just after Dday, he told me, "She knows you better than you know yourself". That really stung. He now realizes she is one of those Jerry Springer types that puts her "stuff" out for everyone to see just to get attention, and that she is nothing special. And that she is a serial cheater-cheating on not just her husband, but her other AP when she first took interest in J. He had initially thought their friendship was so special because she was so open and "honest", when actually, she was just like that girl in school with such low self-esteem that she tells everyone her tales of woe for attention while sleeping with the entire football team in hopes one of them will save her


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

calmwinds said:


> One more thing...on the divulging secrets thing. I think in many EA/PA relationships, this is not the exception. Just after Dday, he told me, "She knows you better than you know yourself". That really stung. He now realizes she is one of those Jerry Springer types that puts her "stuff" out for everyone to see just to get attention, and that she is nothing special. And that she is a serial cheater-cheating on not just her husband, but her other AP when she first took interest in J. He had initially thought their friendship was so special because she was so open and "honest", when actually, she was just like that girl in school with such low self-esteem that she tells everyone her tales of woe for attention while sleeping with the entire football team in hopes one of them will save her


Did you expose the affair to her husband?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

calmwinds said:


> One more thing...on the divulging secrets thing. I think in many EA/PA relationships, this is not the exception. Just after Dday, he told me, *"She knows you better than you know yourself". * That really stung. He now realizes she is one of those Jerry Springer types that puts her "stuff" out for everyone to see just to get attention, and that she is nothing special. And that she is a serial cheater-cheating on not just her husband, but her other AP when she first took interest in J. He had initially thought their friendship was so special because she was so open and "honest", when actually, she was just like that girl in school with such low self-esteem that she tells everyone her tales of woe for attention while sleeping with the entire football team in hopes one of them will save her


Were you and her close? If not.. I'd remind him that most of the stuff she 'knows' about you, probably came from his lies and crap he's fed her to justify cheating...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

russell28 said:


> Were you and her close? If not.. I'd remind him that most of the stuff she 'knows' about you, probably came from his lies and crap he's fed her to justify cheating...


:iagree:


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## calmwinds (Dec 10, 2012)

No, she and I were not close. She WAS my SIL's best friend when she met my H, and her daughter is still my granddaughter's BFF 
She is a former employee of the NP I see for my asthma (he is also a close friend of mine, and my former BIL, and both of us being in the same profession we talk a lot) and he (and others) told me that her husband knows very well what she does. They have attended black tie events where she openly hit on other men right in front of her H. The general consensus is that he accepts what she does and doesn't care. He is former USMC and head of security at a VERY LARGE corporation, has enough clearance to be on the local team when US President comes for a visit, and access to more surveillance than most folks even know exists. She did leave him and filed for D believing my FWH would leave me and they would ride off into the sunset together on a unicorn, and HE (her H) had RA with his attorney:rofl: 
I have seen him a couple of times, the last only a week or so ago. They say my car at the grocery and she wouldn't get out of their car...she sent him in. He saw me in the checkokut line and quickly went the other way. He knows very well who I am, AND who my H is. She had even introduced them so they could all hang out together (on the weekends I worked, of course), go camping and boating. He's an alcoholic, and drinks until he passes out, leaving her all the "proof" shee needs to show everyone how Fvcked up her life is.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

calmwinds said:


> No, she and I were not close. She WAS my SIL's best friend when she met my H, and her daughter is still my granddaughter's BFF
> She is a former employee of the NP I see for my asthma (he is also a close friend of mine, and my former BIL, and both of us being in the same profession we talk a lot) and he (and others) told me that her husband knows very well what she does. They have attended black tie events where she openly hit on other men right in front of her H. The general consensus is that he accepts what she does and doesn't care. He is former USMC and head of security at a VERY LARGE corporation, has enough clearance to be on the local team when US President comes for a visit, and access to more surveillance than most folks even know exists. She did leave him and filed for D believing my FWH would leave me and they would ride off into the sunset together on a unicorn, and HE (her H) had RA with his attorney:rofl:
> I have seen him a couple of times, the last only a week or so ago. They say my car at the grocery and she wouldn't get out of their car...she sent him in. He saw me in the checkokut line and quickly went the other way. He knows very well who I am, AND who my H is. She had even introduced them so they could all hang out together (on the weekends I worked, of course), go camping and boating. He's an alcoholic, and drinks until he passes out, leaving her all the "proof" shee needs to show everyone how Fvcked up her life is.


Their marriage sounds twisted...


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

treyvion said:


> So being cheated on can start a negative chain reaction where you are taking it from all sides?



I probably didn't explain it well enough. FWWs betrayal was almost like the culmination of disrespect I allowed to happen. 

Not just by her, but I felt torn down by life in general. 

I don't know why those months after I found out caused me to reexamine my life. But I turned it to a concerted effort of self improvement. 

And I can say as soon as I made that effort, it became almost effortless. It's hard to tell yourself you're worthless when you're taking care of yourself. 

It just snowballs. 

Making myself a priority feels good. I don't have to sacrifice for someone else and hope that they return the favor. I can cut out the middleman and just do it for myself.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

awake1 said:


> I probably didn't explain it well enough. FWWs betrayal was almost like the culmination of disrespect I allowed to happen.
> 
> Not just by her, but I felt torn down by life in general.
> 
> ...


Keep pushing forward....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> No. It's always there. I was married twice. I brought some things with me to the new relationship. I knew it. I did my best to put things behind me. Some things changed my boundaries and they got stricter and others became looser. I went too far each way, I think.
> 
> The point is, they are always there. They will never leave. I had to just pay attention at times to the old scars from my first marriage and check to see if what was going on was triggering me or was it reality. Then go from there. Now, there are new on top of the old. More things to deal with. More things trigger me. I think there are too many at some point. We cannot heal well enough to have a good relationship any more. I'm not sure.


Perhaps you need to figure out why you picked the 2 wives you did? Maybe that could be a launching point for the next phase of your life....


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Scars never completely heal back. They can heal to a point where, unless you know to look for it, you can't see it, but it is still there. It never truly goes away.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Juicer said:


> Scars never completely heal back. They can heal to a point where, unless you know to look for it, you can't see it, but it is still there. It never truly goes away.


:iagree: Yeah that seems to be the general consensus among BS.....


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> :iagree: Yeah that seems to be the general consensus among BS.....


It does seem true. However if you can find yourself in an outstanding situation... That looking back is no longer desireable, you will learn that you can be so much better and you won't repeat that last episode ever again.

The key is we have to get over it and beyond it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> It does seem true. However if you can find yourself in an outstanding situation... That looking back is no longer desireable, you will learn that you can be so much better and you won't repeat that last episode ever again.
> 
> The key is we have to get over it and beyond it.


Agreed but so many people struggle getting "over the wall" so to speak...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed but so many people struggle getting "over the wall" so to speak...


Visual image of a dude trying to old school high jump the wall, almost clearing it and sliding back down...

The wall may just be your own mind, or the wall may be the type of people who will do you just like your ex did.

It all starts in our mind.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Visual image of a dude trying to old school high jump the wall, almost clearing it and sliding back down...
> 
> The wall may just be your own mind, or the wall may be the type of people who will do you just like your ex did.
> 
> *It all starts in our mind.*


This is true with a lot of life's hurdles...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I have been lurking on these boards for quite sometime. I see people still writing about and disscussing their spouses affairs some as long as 20-30 years out. Can a BS ever fully heal? Those who have healed - how did you do it?


The BH will never heal without the full truth. Every question that he wants answered must be answered.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> This is true with a lot of life's hurdles...


I plan on making it over that wall and staying over there.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

It is about full disclosure. Can't move forward if you don't know what really happened and what was going on. Since WH is already a lye and cheat what makes you think when they say it "was nothing" or "They didn't mean anything to me" or "I always loved you" they are telling the truth. To move forward without knowing will only result in repeated problems. Leaving the BS to always have questions and wonder. How can you forgive WH for something you don't know about or know what all they did that you need to forgive? ? How are you to know they are ever as committed to rebuilding your marriage? 
And lastly to tell me or even suggest that "I get over it," is not going to happen. I can move forward but only when my questions are answered.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

jupiter13 said:


> It is about full disclosure. Can't move forward if you don't know what really happened and what was going on. Since WH is already a lye and cheat what makes you think when they say it "was nothing" or "They didn't mean anything to me" or "I always loved you" they are telling the truth. To move forward without knowing will only result in repeated problems. Leaving the BS to always have questions and wonder. How can you forgive WH for something you don't know about or know what all they did that you need to forgive? ? How are you to know they are ever as committed to rebuilding your marriage?
> *And lastly to tell me or even suggest that "I get over it," is not going to happen. I can move forward but only when my questions are answered*.


That line "get over it" is infurtiating..when you have been betrayed on this level there is no simple "getting over it" - it is a process...it is an "emotional compound fracture"


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> That line "get over it" is infurtiating..when you have been betrayed on this level there is no simple "getting over it" - it is a process...it is an "emotional compound fracture"


Usually the betrayers or supporters of the betrayers use that line...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Usually the betrayers or supporters of the betrayers use that line...


Then it is no wonder most marriages that experience infidelity end up doomed...without true remorse there can be no real reconciliation..


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Then it is no wonder most marriages that experience infidelity end up doomed...without true remorse there can be no real reconciliation..


That's what I was saying.

A true cheater is not going to want to feel guilt or feel bad, when it's time to "come home", so they will rug sweep and minimize, never killing that cheating side of themself.

It's hard!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> That's what I was saying.
> 
> A true cheater is not going to want to feel guilt or feel bad, when it's time to "come home", so they will rug sweep and minimize, never killing that cheating side of themself.
> 
> It's hard!


TRULY remorseful WS are few and far between...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> TRULY remorseful WS are few and far between...


They have to get the life of bejeezus scared into them. And even then, many continue on their path because they don't want to look like they made a mistake.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> They have to get the life of bejeezus scared into them. And even then, many continue on their path because they don't want to look like they made a mistake.


So you think pride interferes with R for a lot of WS?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> So you think pride interferes with R for a lot of WS?


It's pride and Ego. Much of the ego was built off of knowing they could have two or more partners at the same time. That no one was going to go anywhere.

It's a huge amount of control for a long period of time. The responses and reactions of the LBS solidifies this self image of the WS. It was going on for along time and accumulating "counters" in their brain that raise the ego up.

It is very hard and painful to undo an ego that was built up in this way. No one wants to release it. It hurts at every stage.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> It's pride and Ego. Much of the ego was built off of knowing they could have two or more partners at the same time. That no one was going to go anywhere.
> 
> It's a huge amount of control for a long period of time. The responses and reactions of the LBS solidifies this self image of the WS. It was going on for along time and accumulating "counters" in their brain that raise the ego up.
> 
> It is very hard and painful to undo an ego that was built up in this way. No one wants to release it. It hurts at every stage.


What effect do you think revenge affairs have on a cheater in a LTA?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What effect do you think revenge affairs have on a cheater in a LTA?


I was never a tit-for-tatter...

But if your going to be together, if someone betrays you horribly as such... If you do the same to them, it should level out their viewpoint.

Their viewpoint had diminished you and look at you as serving over time...

Now it shows equality. It will reduce some of these feelings of superiority or perhaps you will not leave.

You probably don't want to be a swinger, but it's the only way they can understand.

Very few people are capable of the remorse, and like I said, if they do get it, it would be a white ghost moment or near death experience.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> I was never a tit-for-tatter...
> 
> But if your going to be together, if someone betrays you horribly as such... If you do the same to them, it should level out their viewpoint.
> 
> ...


I've become an agnostic on RAs - some WS's egos are so out of control they need to be knocked down to reality...that they too can be cheated on...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I've become an agnostic on RAs - some WS's egos are so out of control they need to be knocked down to reality...that they too can be cheated on...


They should be cheated on and much more. Usually when we have affairs for self pleasure and lust, you have OM's and OW's involved in drugs, crimes and generally being on the edge with their taxes, working hours, external drug useage.

So many ways to bust them back on. Plus they should be cheated on too.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

treyvion said:


> They should be cheated on and much more. Usually when we have affairs for self pleasure and lust, you have OM's and OW's involved in drugs, crimes and generally being on the edge with their taxes, working hours, external drug useage.
> 
> So many ways to bust them back on. Plus they should be cheated on too.


I do think the WS's ego needs to be put in check for sure....


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

RAs only bring you down to their level.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> RAs only bring you down to their level.


It sucks either way. It's not good when they thought they got away with it, and if you love them they will. Almost no repurcussion will be great enough. However if you cheat on them, it will show you it's nothing special. Also that ego built up on the affairs needs to be undone, it may be thick and very slippery, and need to be broken and chipped away until you have a chance for a fair shot with that person.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I've become an agnostic on RAs - some WS's egos are so out of control they need to be knocked down to reality...that they too can be cheated on...


My fear is that where I've always felt the need to have my wifes back in situations where I was tempted to cheat.. I may now be like "where are the condoms.." Then I think, "you won't cheat, because you're worried about condoms... everyone knows cheaters don't use protection"... so yea, my boundaries are probably still going to be there...


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## darkdays (Jul 31, 2013)

i just found out about my wife 3 or 4 months ago. i feel rage and numbness as she had these mental plans of sleeping with her boss to "make" him have feelings for her and to end our relationship of 20 years, 14 married with 2 kids. the boss is married. she says i stopped it before it got physical within days. That doesnt make me feel much better about it. I loved her so much, was devoted to her, treated her like gold. i can't get the things she said to me out of my head. all the love i felt is just gone. when i look at her i just feel rage. NOW she wants to be the "wife i deserve" but everything is broken. I question this healing process as well. its just decimated me like nothing else. baking cookies for this POS, buying birthday presents 6 months before his b day, staying late just to talk so she says, the obssesion was sick and he is a middle age fat bald guy. i don't fing get it. i am hear trying to find hope but these articles make it seem these feelings will never go away.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

darkdays said:


> i just found out about my wife 3 or 4 months ago. i feel rage and numbness as she had these mental plans of sleeping with her boss to "make" him have feelings for her and to end our relationship of 20 years, 14 married with 2 kids. the boss is married. she says i stopped it before it got physical within days. That doesnt make me feel much better about it. I loved her so much, was devoted to her, treated her like gold. i can't get the things she said to me out of my head. all the love i felt is just gone. when i look at her i just feel rage. NOW she wants to be the "wife i deserve" but everything is broken. I question this healing process as well. its just decimated me like nothing else. baking cookies for this POS, buying birthday presents 6 months before his b day, staying late just to talk so she says, the obssesion was sick and he is a middle age fat bald guy. i don't fing get it. i am hear trying to find hope but these articles make it seem these feelings will never go away.


Sorry you are here...firstly are you sure you have all the facts? If she is truly remorseful she has to come clean...

You also need IC to sort through these emotions...your wife wants this to "go away" but that is not going to happen it is not healthy for you or the long term prospects of the marriage..her fantasy world has come crashing down and now she as to deal with reality..

Send her to TAM and have her talk with other fWS here - they will set her straight. The remorseful fWS on these boards are a treasure trove of good information and direction.

Good luck and remember use this community to help you through this - there is an aamzing amount of information here and the people here are fantastic...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Darkdays also read this thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...tional-monsters-why-control-doesn-t-work.html


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

darkdays said:


> i just found out about my wife 3 or 4 months ago. i feel rage and numbness as she had these mental plans of sleeping with her boss to "make" him have feelings for her and to end our relationship of 20 years, 14 married with 2 kids. the boss is married. she says i stopped it before it got physical within days. That doesnt make me feel much better about it. I loved her so much, was devoted to her, treated her like gold. i can't get the things she said to me out of my head. all the love i felt is just gone. when i look at her i just feel rage. NOW she wants to be the "wife i deserve" but everything is broken. I question this healing process as well. its just decimated me like nothing else. baking cookies for this POS, buying birthday presents 6 months before his b day, staying late just to talk so she says, the obssesion was sick and he is a middle age fat bald guy. i don't fing get it. i am hear trying to find hope but these articles make it seem these feelings will never go away.


Hey darkdays how are you doing?


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

My take on the original question, we never fully heal we just move on with our lives, some like to be the victim other want to be set free from the shackles of their SOs infidelities, I don't care anymore, I found myself in the midst of saving my a$$ a couple weeks ago and I now realize a few things

1) Trust only myself

2) believe only what you can verify in anyone

3) Look for the fun in life and forget the rubbish

4) Life goes on

People come and go, look out for #1 and make sure you are always financially and emotionally secure enough to walk at a moments notice.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> My take on the original question, we never fully heal we just move on with our lives, some like to be the victim other want to be set free from the shackles of their SOs infidelities, I don't care anymore, I found myself in the midst of saving my a$$ a couple weeks ago and I now realize a few things
> 
> 1) Trust only myself
> 
> ...


How is your marriage doing these days wranglerman? Is your wife sitll doing the heavy lfiting?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> My take on the original question, we never fully heal we just move on with our lives, some like to be the victim other want to be set free from the shackles of their SOs infidelities, I don't care anymore, I found myself in the midst of saving my a$$ a couple weeks ago and I now realize a few things
> 
> 1) Trust only myself
> 
> ...


I agree totally with this. Even though my first wife's affairs happened early in the marriage and when I was still young, her infidelity and the impact of it changed me in fundamental ways. I was never the same. Some part of my soul was amputated and I walk around with the scars. I was never the same person again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LostViking said:


> I agree totally with this. Even though my first wife's affairs happened early in the marriage and when I was still young, her infidelity and the impact of it changed me in fundamental ways. I was never the same. Some part of my soul was amputated and I walk around with the scars. I was never the same person again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That sums up infidelity nicely....the BS is never the same. WS should realize this - no matter what happens post-affair (R or D) there is serious, serious damage that can never fully be repaired.


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## jupiter13 (Jun 8, 2012)

I agree completely. The fool thing is they can be sorry as heck but it will not make one bit of difference damage done. Life goes on..


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

jupiter13 said:


> I agree completely. The fool thing is they can be sorry as heck but it will not make one bit of difference damage done. Life goes on..


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

That is the thing about sin - we can repent and be forgiven but the ripples go on and on and on....


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