# A Slippery Slope - Sexual "Demands" vs. Communicating Sexual Desires???



## SecondTimesTheCharm (Dec 30, 2011)

Often, I seem to get in trouble for being very sexually demanding with my wife. Personally, I don't think I am very demanding but I am not shy about asking for what I want.

The last thing I would ever want is to find myself in a sexless marriage and I do not find sex 5 days a week to be excessive given that we had sex daily in the first year of our relationship.

So, I ask the forum, when does it stop being "communicating sexual desire and expectations" and start just being an overwhelming "sexual demand"? 

Also, just to be clear, more often than not, I do still try to set the mood as much as possible, rather than just expect her to drop everything and service me, typically when we are already in bed for the evening.

Maybe I am reading too much between the lines, but I think with some of the sexless marriages I read about on this forum it is because there is just a complete breakdown in communication. So, my idea is to always make my communications about my needs and expectations CRYSTAL clear. 

I would rather get in trouble for being sexual demanding and still be having sex 5 nights a week rather than to be passive-aggressive and be having sex once or twice a week. I am passive-aggressive about a few things but not when it comes to my libido!


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

SecondTimesTheCharm said:


> So, I ask the forum, when does it stop being "communicating sexual desire and expectations" and start just being an overwhelming "sexual demand"?


Good communication works best not only when you talk, but when you actively LISTEN as well (and sometimes that involves more than just using your ears, but using your eyes to observe her.)

So, it would start to be an overwhelming demand if you don't actively listen to your spouse's needs/issues and/or you don't try and take her concerns and needs into consideration.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I read that 80 % of all comunication is done through body language.

I think you need less talking and more paying attention.

read up on body language.very interesting.


----------



## SecondTimesTheCharm (Dec 30, 2011)

So if by expressing verbally my sexual needs leads to sex 5 days a week then that means if I was completely fluent in body language that I could be having sex 20 more times a week?! 20% = 5x, therefore 80% = 20x and 100% = 25x. Seriously, I think my weenie would fall off if I mastered body language and had to have sex about 4x a day. I am a horny guy but even I am not THAT horny. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

If it's something you want, you're communicating a desire when you ask.

If it's something (anything) the other person doesn't want to do, it's a demand when you ask.

Especially if you keep asking after being told "no".

Sex, emotional contact, chores, visits - all the same.


----------



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

5 times a week is too much, and you cannot expect the same amount this as when you were dating. About twice a week is reasonable and around the average. Staistically the numbers were a little higher when women weren't working. When they are busy, stressed, or feeling overwhelmed, their desire dramatically decreases, while men's stay the same or increase in these circumstances.


----------



## LovingW (Nov 14, 2011)

Bobby5000 said:


> 5 times a week is too much, and you cannot expect the same amount this as when you were dating. About twice a week is reasonable and around the average. Staistically the numbers were a little higher when women weren't working. When they are busy, stressed, or feeling overwhelmed, their desire dramatically decreases, while men's stay the same or increase in these circumstances.


I agree with you 100%!
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## FrankKissel (Nov 14, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> If it's something you want, you're communicating a desire when you ask.
> 
> If it's something (anything) the other person doesn't want to do, it's a demand when you ask.
> 
> ...


What he said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Flower25 (Jan 9, 2012)

SecondTimesTheCharm said:


> Often, I seem to get in trouble for being very sexually demanding with my wife.


With whom do you get in trouble?

If your wife gets upset with you because you are being "demanding" - then you are not "communicating".


----------



## LovingW (Nov 14, 2011)

Flower25 said:


> With whom do you get in trouble?
> 
> If your wife gets upset with you because you are being "demanding" - then you are not "communicating".


Flower, he get's in trouble w/ me (DW).


----------



## SoCalHubby (Jan 7, 2012)

When does it stop being "communicating sexual desire and expectations" and start just being an overwhelming "sexual demand"?

I think the answer depends on the way you communicate your desires and also how far apart you and your wife are in terms of your needs/desires. I think it's common for husband and wife to have different appetites in terms of sexual frequency -- the long term health of the marriage depends a lot on how this difference is handled or "negotiated". If the higher appetite spouse is demanding in an obnoxious way, this can lead to resentment. On the other hand, if the lower appetite spouse seems unconcerned with the sexual needs of his/her partner, this can be a real morale buster, and can lead to infidelity and/or other problems. Hopefully there's a middle ground, where both spouses feel respected and fulfilled. Five times per week sounds like a high number to me -- how does your wife feel about this frequency?


----------



## LovingW (Nov 14, 2011)

SoCalHubby said:


> When does it stop being "communicating sexual desire and expectations" and start just being an overwhelming "sexual demand"?
> 
> I think the answer depends on the way you communicate your desires and also how far apart you and your wife are in terms of your needs/desires. I think it's common for husband and wife to have different appetites in terms of sexual frequency -- the long term health of the marriage depends a lot on how this difference is handled or "negotiated". If the higher appetite spouse is demanding in an obnoxious way, this can lead to resentment. On the other hand, if the lower appetite spouse seems unconcerned with the sexual needs of his/her partner, this can be a real morale buster, and can lead to infidelity and/or other problems. Hopefully there's a middle ground, where both spouses feel respected and fulfilled. Five times per week sounds like a high number to me -- how does your wife feel about this frequency?


:scratchhead:

The wife is exhausted and tired of having the same conversation over and over. It is no longer communication, it's become annoyance! DH complaining about us not having enough sex/intimacy or always saving him for last when I am tired at the end of the day. Always the same complaint, same arguments, same results. 

Same results because he does not wanna settle for anything less. He throws tantrums and likes to remind me of how things "USED TO BE" and calls it Bait and switch! Really, Bait & Switch?? Believe me when I say I have given him plenty of sex, even when I have been sick in bed and not in the mood. I have come to realize that it only feels like a chore and not a very pleasant chore so why should I perform while sick like a dog, eight days after having plastic surgery or when I do not have the desire to perform  This is my body!

Obviously, when it is shoved in my face 5 or 6 days a week, I have no appetite for it. I do not have the same sex drive as he does. Also, a lot has changed in the last couple of years and for that I no longer have the same sex drive as I did when we first met, got engaged/married. What happened?? Life happens!!

My husband does not give me a chance to miss his penis.....I wanna be able to have GREAT sex when we do but at his pace, I can no longer keep up and only thing comes out of his 5X a week request is fighting/not talking 4X a week and awful sex when we are intimate on those few days during the week. 

The resentment has been building up, so has the exhaustion....

So I wish he would change his way of thinking.....cause if he continues to think we are gonna have sex 5 days a week with all the stress, a full time day job, and everything else that is going on in our lives, this marriage will not last much longer. With no children in the picture, I am at a point were I have had enough of his sexual demands. And if I can't have a partner that can't accept GREAT SEX 2 or 3 times a week, well, I don't know what to say, except, it won't be long till our marriage comes to an end. 

I am tired of our fights over the lack of sex in our marriage. I no longer have tolerance for a partner who only thinks of sex, food and traveling...oh, and running! Honestly, the REST OF MY LIFE is TOO long of a time to be wasted over the same argument. There is definitely more too life! 
I need a partner who is on the same page as me and if it can't be you, well, let's find a partner that is more suitable for each of us so we can move forward in our lives. At 33, my biological clock is ticking and I don't wanna waste any precious time.

I'd like to add that in the beginning of every relationship there is more excitement, and there will be more action in the bedroom but once things settle, there will be changes, whether you like it or not, even with wife # 3! So pick your battles wisely!


----------



## SoCalHubby (Jan 7, 2012)

Sorry if I'm slow here, but is LovingW actually the wife of the OP? If so, it's obvious there are major problems in your marriage. Sorry OP, but I have to take your wife's side here -- sounds like you've crossed the line from "communicating your needs" to being unreasonable and demanding and by the way, also VERY immature. Dude, it's time to grow up and BE A MAN. A big part of being a man is putting your wife's needs and desires AHEAD OF YOUR OWN. Insisting on your 5+ times per week makes you look like a child, no wonder she doesn't seem to want you. Show her that you're worthy of respect and desire. And by the way, it's time for some professional counseling. Jeez.


----------



## LovingW (Nov 14, 2011)

SoCalHubby said:


> Sorry if I'm slow here, but is LovingW actually the wife of the OP? If so, it's obvious there are major problems in your marriage. Sorry OP, but I have to take your wife's side here -- sounds like you've crossed the line from "communicating your needs" to being unreasonable and demanding and by the way, also VERY immature. Dude, it's time to grow up and BE A MAN. A big part of being a man is putting your wife's needs and desires AHEAD OF YOUR OWN. Insisting on your 5+ times per week makes you look like a child, no wonder she doesn't seem to want you. Show her that you're worthy of respect and desire. And by the way, it's time for some professional counseling. Jeez.


Yup, I am the wife. A few months ago, I found this link on his phone and learned that he was posting on here daily. Now I read what he has to say and lately, I have been putting in my two cents. I just need to get through to him..........so here I am...........we have tried professional counseling and wasted $$$$$$.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

LovingW said:


> Obviously, when it is shoved in my face 5 or 6 days a week, I have no appetite for it. I do not have the same sex drive as he does. Also, a lot has changed in the last couple of years and for that I no longer have the same sex drive as I did when we first met, got engaged/married. What happened?? Life happens!!


What kind of sex are we talking about? Does it always have to be PIV for him? Could you have PIV 2 - 3 times a week and then do other intimate things - manual/oral- the other times?

My H used to be very much the same way as yours when we were younger, except that he did not get ticked off about it and act out. I was a lot more motivated to try and figure out a way to meet him more in the middle because of that and he was happy with that. We would do PIV based upon what I felt comfortable with, and then we would do other things - lots of manual, some oral, body massages, mutual masturbation, solo masturbation while watching, etc. - during the other times.

Have you sat down, tried to come up with kind of a rough schedule, and then over the next few weeks just try it? See if you both can compromise - maybe him compromise down on the amount of actual PIV and you compromise up on the amount of non-PIV intimacy, and BOTH making an effort to include more non-sexual touching, affection, and talking.

Best wishes.


----------



## SoCalHubby (Jan 7, 2012)

LovingW said:


> Yup, I am the wife. A few months ago, I found this link on his phone and learned that he was posting on here daily. Now I read what he has to say and lately, I have been putting in my two cents. I just need to get through to him..........so here I am...........we have tried professional counseling and wasted $$$$$$.


Oh boy. Would OP be willing to compromise?
I would suggest a sex schedule, maybe every other night versus three nights per week, but agree on which three nights, and if he agrees to this LovingW should be sure to rock his world, ie show him you appreciate his wlingness to meet you halfway, etc. A schedule is good because then you both know what to expect and this should short circuit the drama and arguing. Also, one has to wonder what is beneath OP's insistence and pushiness--is it just immaturity, or also insecurity? Please don't make babies unless you solve this issue!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LovingW (Nov 14, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> What kind of sex are we talking about? Does it always have to be PIV for him? Could you have PIV 2 - 3 times a week and then do other intimate things - manual/oral- the other times?
> Best wishes.



I am sorry but what does PIV mean?? :scratchhead:


----------



## Early Grayce (Jan 19, 2012)

There is some good information here, that's why I joined this group. My wife and I have been married 20 years and we might have sex once every three month's. My involuntary celabacy has me eyeing the priesthood. (I kid of course). 
Please keep the conversation going, I'm learning here.


----------



## SoCalHubby (Jan 7, 2012)

I believe PIV means penis in vagina.
Personally I prefer the term f*****g
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## seriously_yours (Apr 16, 2012)

Poor Dude
I feel you.
Went from at least daily when we first moved in together ( and that was only 7 months ago) to maybe 3x week now and even that has to be scheduled around coffee and cigarettes. SHe keeps telling me I should be thankful , that according to this board I am a lucky one. I certainly seems that way . 

The good thing about it all though is she is the most Beautiful amazing lover in the world and every time with her is the best of my life. When she walks in the bedroom, or anyroom, and looks at me with those sexy blue eyes, I KNOW I am the lucky one. She could have any man and chooses me ( and we both agree, I'm not easy to live with, but she does it, and I thank the Lord every day she does ... but I digress.....)

My advice ( and believe me I have lived your exact circumstance and flipped over tables in frustration at being turned down) Try and embrace the times you are together, immerse yourself in every intimate moment, feel her desire and passion in those times you are together and dream about it during those times you are not. Recognize you are blessed and show her in every touch, kiss, caress and word she is your ultimate desire and she will respond

I tried the angry demanding fighting route and it only made the times we were together worse. Im not saying I am always successful, dude wants what a dude wants, but by changing my demands on her body to a discussion of my desire for her whole being, has gone a long way to achieving what we both need. 

Now to the Dear Loving Wife...
Its clear you dont want it as much, and the demands are making you feel devalued and angry. HAve you considered that your H is just miscommuncating his desire for you. Perhaps his need for XXX so often is really a cry for more intimacy. Dudes suck and often dont know how to express such desires. " I cherish you, need you and want to be close and connected with you" often comes out as "Lets XXX more" As much as he needs to calm down and compromise, would it help for you to listen to the underlying message in his "demands" . To FEEL what he is saying and not just listen to the words. From what I am reading it certainly can not hurt

Alternately, I have just missed the boat here and he just wants to XXX you more... really..... that must so suck for you. A man you love cant keep his hands off you, shows his desire everyday, and is both willing and capable. Gurl you gotta ride that train as long as it lasts !!
Good Luck !!


----------



## LoveaCanadian (Apr 16, 2012)

Yes, seriously yours is correct. When he went from throwing things in the yard because he didn't get sex to showing me his sad eyes telling me "he needed me", needed the closeness, the connection .....I got it. We even had sex on an unscheduled day (had my cig and coffee afterwards grrrrrr)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Flower25 said:


> If your wife gets upset with you because you are being "demanding" - then you are not "communicating".


Completely disagree. Consider this hypothetical discussion which (sadly) probably hits close to home for many of us:

_HD Spouse: I've noticed a steady degradation in our sex life. There used to be so much promise for our sexual future; now it feels like more of an afterthought to you. I think we need to up the frequency; I'd also like to experiment with variety by adding OS and maybe other things to the mix.

LD Spouse: I'm sorry you are unhappy with our sex life. But, I do not empathize. I am not that into sex. What we have is more than enough for me and takes limited free time and energy from the other things I have going on. What we do now is best given my preferences and the demands on my time.

HD Spouse: I hear you. But, you just admitted that your sexual engagement is based on your preferences, life priorities, and what you think should be sufficient for me. This thought process does not consider my perspective and is thus unfair. I don't have to get my way every time, but I insist we rate my needs equal to yours and negotiate from that perspective.

LD Spouse: No Way! Sex is not a negotiation like what to have for dinner or how to decorate. I am a lady / gentleman and don't have "getting off" as a priority. I have known that you are for some time but am simply uninterested. Since we're on the subject, I am tired of constant pressure from you asking and "paying me back" when you don't get your way. You need to appreciate what you get and give me your 100% best._

See - communication is good; there is clarity of expectation on both parts. This is exactly why we have escalation from expression of desire to demands. Each knows exactly how the other intends to act and is taking a strong position in response (the merits of each position are unimportant for this discussion).

I see quite a bit of "you guys are only having problems because you don't get each other's position" and the derivative "if only he (or she) really understood my side they would not even push the issue". While this may be true for some, I think precisely the opposite is also true many times.

Conflict can happen exactly because both partners clearly see each others' position. When one or both refuse to compromise, they anticipate the "showdown" and react accordingly. I believe this is what Schnarch refers to as the "crucible" in _Passionate Marriage_ - that critical point where the unaccomodating partner knows change is inevitable and has to choose between a more mature sexual outlook or moving on.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

DTO,
It took me a long time to reach this conclusion. It is not "nice", it is however practical. First I am going to start with a "self awareness" thing. I view our sex life as the ultimate "grade" on my report card. Whether or not she thinks this way consciously, this is the area where my wifes core feelings for me are most accurately reflected. 

For a HD partner, their "own" report card for sex ranges from an A when things are great, to an F when sexless. 

There are many loving, kind LD spouses. I know as I am married to one. 

There are also many badly behaved LD partners. And those people actually do have a "self" rating for sex. They don't think about it often, but they have it. And it is a Pass/Fail rating. Turns out that even being totally sexless is still a "Pass" for them. For a badly behaved LD spouse, the only situation that creates a sexual "Fail" grade is if you:
- Divorce them
- Threaten to divorce them and they believe you or
- Open the marriage to other sexual partners

I think we are too quick to tell folks to divorce/threaten divorce. I don't have it in me to say "fvck me" or I will file. I do think it is perfectly fair to go into the crucible with:
- Clearly you don't like doing this with me
- Just as I love you too much to divorce you over this, I know you are not so cold as to expect celibacy from me
- Sex is now off the table for us unless at some far future date you want to revisit it
- I am still committed to the marriage
- I will get my needs filled discreetly, please don't ask questions. I have no more desire to discuss this with you, than you do to discuss why we are in this situation to begin with

The badly behaved LD partner typically reacts to an "F" with the same intensity the HD partner responds to it. "Holy crow this is making me intensely anxious, what can I do to fix it."





DTO said:


> Completely disagree. Consider this hypothetical discussion which (sadly) probably hits close to home for many of us:
> 
> _HD Spouse: I've noticed a steady degradation in our sex life. There used to be so much promise for our sexual future; now it feels like more of an afterthought to you. I think we need to up the frequency; I'd also like to experiment with variety by adding OS and maybe other things to the mix.
> 
> ...


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

SoCalHubby said:


> Sorry if I'm slow here, but is LovingW actually the wife of the OP? If so, it's obvious there are major problems in your marriage. Sorry OP, but I have to take your wife's side here -- sounds like you've crossed the line from "communicating your needs" to being unreasonable and demanding and by the way, also VERY immature. Dude, it's time to grow up and BE A MAN. A big part of being a man is putting your wife's needs and desires AHEAD OF YOUR OWN.


Not trying to be difficult, but (generally speaking, not just on this topic) shouldn't the husband and wife BOTH be esteeming each other better than themselves? I'm all for the man pulling his weight and initially putting his wife's needs first and delay his own gratification.

But, what is the rationale for the husband taking a permanent back seat to his wife? It seems that if either spouse is the one to always give in first and sacrifice, then pretty soon you have resentment and marital crisis. It's much better to work out a reasonable, 50/50 compromise up front.

Again, I'm saying this because it seems you were putting forth a general rule and not speaking to this guy in particular. If I am wrong, then I apologize.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

DTO said:


> Completely disagree. Consider this hypothetical discussion which (sadly) probably hits close to home for many of us:
> 
> _HD Spouse: I've noticed a steady degradation in our sex life. There used to be so much promise for our sexual future; now it feels like more of an afterthought to you. I think we need to up the frequency; I'd also like to experiment with variety by adding OS and maybe other things to the mix.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Whilst I am sure that there are many cases where both partners' needs have never been discussed (and each expects the other to know by osmosis or black magic), and others where one partner genuinely had no idea that their partner had sexual needs, I suspect that the majority of cases this is not the problem.

Both partners have made their needs clear. Both partners fully understand each others' needs. Both know what they ought to do to meet those needs.

And one partner has no intention whatsoever of doing even one thing to meet their partner's needs. Whilst at the same time expecting the other to meet their needs without demur.



MEM11363 said:


> DTO,
> It took me a long time to reach this conclusion. It is not "nice", it is however practical. First I am going to start with a "self awareness" thing. I view our sex life as the ultimate "grade" on my report card. Whether or not she thinks this way consciously, this is the area where my wifes core feelings for me are most accurately reflected.
> 
> For a HD partner, their "own" report card for sex ranges from an A when things are great, to an F when sexless.
> ...



Mem,

my feeling is that "... J_ust as I love you too much to divorce you over this, I know you are not so cold as to expect celibacy from me..." _won't fly. I suspect a person like you describe WOULD think celibacy was a reasonable expectation of their partner. After all, they've as good as said that's what they expect.

Further, I think that if you are looking for an alternative to "f*ck me or divorce me", then "..._I will get my needs filled discreetly, please don't ask questions. I have no more desire to discuss this with you, than you do to discuss why we are in this situation to begin with..._" ain't it. If they are willing to make you celibate, then they _want_ you celibate. Not getting it on the side...

I see three scenarios from this:

They change / improve;
They leave you in no doubt that if you 'get your needs met', THEY will file;
They let you 'get your needs met' and make the rest of married life so miserable you file for divorce anyway.

As a gamble, it's probably worth a punt. As a business strategy, it's throwing good money after bad. Also, it leaves the initiative with them - gives them the opportunity to ratchet up the stakes to no advantage to you.


----------



## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

SecondTimesTheCharm said:


> Often, I seem to get in trouble for being very sexually demanding with my wife.


I don't really understand the concept of "sexual demand". What is that exactly? I understand his needs, her needs and whether or not both people are meeting the needs of their partner. The only way I could really think of it as a "demand" is if it came backed with an "or else". Otherwise, it's just talk.

If my wife said that I was "too demanding", I would interpret it this way (just my own interpretation and not meant to be prescriptive).

_"I don't care about you and your needs. I don't love you. I'm fine with you suffering."_

Then I would act accordingly. There are lots and lots of productive ways to work out incompatibilities in a marriage. But rejecting the validity of the other person's needs is not one of them. I can't honestly imagine myself marrying a woman who would even think in that way. I like teams.


----------



## so now what? (Apr 13, 2012)

no way you will continue to get sex 5 times a week....unless you pay for it...


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

*Dean* said:


> Sawney,
> 
> Don't you think in that last scenario most men would leave anyway.
> 
> ...


Yep. I can't see it as being anything other than a way to get the other person to make the "declaration of war".


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Jeff/BC said:


> I don't really understand the concept of "sexual demand". What is that exactly? I understand his needs, her needs and whether or not both people are meeting the needs of their partner. The only way I could really think of it as a "demand" is if it came backed with an "or else". Otherwise, it's just talk.
> 
> If my wife said that I was "too demanding", I would interpret it this way (just my own interpretation and not meant to be prescriptive).
> 
> ...


Right back at the beginning I said:

"...If it's something (anything) the other person doesn't want to do, it's a demand when you ask."

This was very slightly tongue in cheek, but I think it's accurate. Anything the other person doesn't want to do is perceived as a "demand".


----------



## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> "...If it's something (anything) the other person doesn't want to do, it's a demand when you ask."


Wow, really? The only thing I can say to that is "not in my marriage". You mean seriously? Every time Carol wants to talk and I don't I'm supposed to think that she is _demanding_ that of me?

For us, there is a *distinct* difference between these three sentences:

Do you have the attention to talk right now?
I really need to talk.
Sit down. We're having a conversation right now.

Only the last would be perceived as a demand and her saying that would absolutely be backed up with very serious consequences if I ... uh ... declined the offer. I can't really imagine her saying that though for just that reason.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Jeff/BC said:


> Wow, really? The only thing I can say to that is "not in my marriage". You mean seriously? Every time Carol wants to talk and I don't I'm supposed to think that she is _demanding_ that of me?


Clue: the difference between you and the people I'm talking about is that you WILL do something that isn't to your taste out of love for you wife.

The people I'm talking feel that being asked to do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER that they don't actively _want_ to do is a demand, and hence unpleasant. Note this is not just about sex or emotional availability in marriage. These are the sort of people who if you tell them to stop gossiping / p*ssing about on the internet and do some work feel that you are an entirely unreasonable, demanding manager. And they come in both sexes - neither men nor women hold the monopoly on "Oh bloody hell, do I HAVE to?"


----------



## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

So then what you're saying is that this "implied demand" is really just an weak partner playing games with the person they claim to love? Yeah, I know such people exist. I don't marry them.

And by the way, you might want to be more careful when you're cluing people in on their own marriages. Your statement was incorrect regarding my really important reason those three are so clearly different for us.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Jeff/BC said:


> So then what you're saying is that this "implied demand" is really just an weak partner playing games with the person they claim to love? Yeah, I know such people exist. I don't marry them.
> 
> And by the way, you might want to be more careful when you're cluing people in on their own marriages. Your statement was incorrect regarding my really important reason those three are so clearly different for us.


I'm not sure what you're saying - are you suggesting that unless what I say applies exactly to you I should say nothing?:scratchhead:


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Bobby5000 said:


> 5 times a week is too much, and you cannot expect the same amount this as when you were dating. About twice a week is reasonable and around the average. Staistically the numbers were a little higher when women weren't working. When they are busy, stressed, or feeling overwhelmed, their desire dramatically decreases, while men's stay the same or increase in these circumstances.


Me & mine never had that wild 5 times a week in our younger years, I greatly regret this. So in our 40's we are recapturing it. We are more led by the emotional connection though... sometimes it is 6 times even ... but rarely 7. 

If we could manage to do it twice a day, we both would want too though. Sex never gets old.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> The people I'm talking feel that being asked to do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER that they don't actively _want_ to do is a demand, and hence unpleasant. Note this is not just about sex or emotional availability in marriage. These are the sort of people who if you tell them to stop gossiping / p*ssing about on the internet and do some work feel that you are an entirely unreasonable, demanding manager. And they come in both sexes - neither men nor women hold the monopoly on "Oh bloody hell, do I HAVE to?"


IOW, narcissists.

Ever notice how the people who say that are exactly the ones who complain if the tables are turned? It's like they cannot believe they are being held to the same standards. Or, maybe they are so out of touch they cannot believe someone would not be happy to serve them or be in their presence?


----------

