# Abusive, controlling and then is happy...



## District89 (Nov 19, 2018)

To cut a long story short - I have been married for 10 months (couple for 5 years) we moved in together after we got married (our culture didn’t allow us to live together prior to marriage) we had a few issues from my side of the family shortly after we got married and my wife felt disrespected and not welcome to my family - which I understand from her stance. 

Since then her guard was always up, always nervous and didn’t want to come with me to visit my parents and family - she would take any, what I would consider minor comments as I know what my family is like, she takes them to heart and when I tried to explain to her you have taken it in the wrong way she would say that I always defend them and I do not support her.

A couple of scenarios transpired - we would argue and she would physically lash out and strike me in her rage, punch/slaps/kicks...I would think that she is angry and it is my fault so I never thought it was wrong that she gets violent. 

As well as that, she uses some of the most vulgar terms and insults against my family, parents and siblings including name calling, wishing they were dead etc...again if I were to tell her to stop she would again say I’m always defending them.

One time we were arguing I was driving on the motorway and she was hitting me whilst I’m trying to drive safely, she grabbed the steering wheel and threatened to swerve the car off the road, so putting not only us but other people in danger.

As the root cause of our arguments tend to stem from my family “issues” she has given me an ultimatum: “you have to choose me or them”.

We could have a lively argument (me sat quietly and her screaming/smashing things) and a couple of days would pass and she is back to being a loving wife, until of course the next argument.

She has stated on numerous occasions that marrying me was her biggest regret and she has also said that she doesn’t see us lasting long and that we should consider separating.

I don’t want to give up on it but I am also now reaching the end of my tether as her violent outbursts has happened on multiple occasions and I will not take it anymore. 

I have been seeing a counsellor which initially started off with the stance to help give me a voice and improve my self worth and confidence - since I have been seeing them I have told them what has been going on in my marriage and where I feel I have gone wrong to create this environment for my marriage - they ultimately determined that the issue is not with me but with my wife, when I told him that she hits me he was ultimately concerned and told me that it’s not okay to let her do that under any circumstances. 

I feel that I am constantly on edge with my wife, I would do anything to make sure we are happy together as I don’t know what will trigger her off again, I am dancing to her tune, I can never be free around her and she gets upset as and when she feels like - I am expected to just ride the wave or else I am accused of not respecting her feelings.

My counsellor said that it seems like the violence is getting worse and that chances are she will not change for the better. She has told me this all happens because of me and I have believed it and take full responsibility as a result.

I have never retaliated to her physical or verbal abuse as it is not in my nature to get angry or respond in the same way - I couldn’t bring myself to do it. 

Has anyone else (preferably male) been in a similar situation with their wife? Abuse? Controlling? Any advice would be great.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

You've been together for 5 years (married 10 months).

Has she been to see a doctor for treatment?
Has she always been like this? 
Do you have kids?

I suggest carrying a VAR to record evidence of her abuse and it also protects you in case she accuses you of DV.

I suspect that it's not really about your family - but rather she has mental issues.

Has your therapist recommended protecting yourself by divorce?


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## District89 (Nov 19, 2018)

Robert22205 said:


> You've been together for 5 years (married 10 months).
> 
> Has she been to see a doctor for treatment?
> Has she always been like this?
> ...


It hasn’t occurred before but we didn’t live together before. The first bout of physical abuse was 3/4 months in to living with each other. She hasn’t seen a doctor nor will she see a counsellor herself as I feel she does not want to get told that she could be in the wrong. I have made audio recordings of her verbal abuse and I have taken pictures of bruising which occurred from she pinched me really hard when I was driving, mid-argument. My therapist has not advised me to do anything as he says he’s not allowed to - but he has gone over the scenarios and ultimatums she has laid out which is: 

Me separating from my family - I resent her for this and me not being happy, also no guarantee the abuse will stop. 

Me not separating from my family would mean she’ll be unhappy = me unhappy. 

We both separate and go our own ways which would mean no further abuse for me and her not feeling the way she does.


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## District89 (Nov 19, 2018)

Robert22205 said:


> You've been together for 5 years (married 10 months).
> 
> Has she been to see a doctor for treatment?
> Has she always been like this?
> ...


Oh sorry, we don’t have any kids.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

District89 said:


> My counsellor said that it seems like the violence is getting worse and that chances are she will not change for the better.


Sir, unless your wife submits herself to a professional program aimed at no longer being abusive, and takes full, 100%, responsibility for her behavior choices upon herself, there are no "chances" here. Your wife has about the same "chance" at becoming nonabusive as she does of winning the million-dollar lottery.



District89 said:


> She has told me this all happens because of me and I have believed it and take full responsibility as a result.


The FACTS are these. NONE of this happens because of you, you have believed a LIE, and the complete, total responsibility for this behavior is your wife's.



District89 said:


> I resent her for this and me not being happy, also no guarantee the abuse will stop.


Sir, the abuse will not stop..... this is guaranteed, her abuse will not stop, unless, and until, she submits herself as afore described. This has nothing to do with you. Not with where you live, not with your resentment, not with leaving your parents. You do not control this, SHE DOES.



District89 said:


> We both separate and go our own ways which would mean no further abuse for me and her not feeling the way she does.


This. Get out. Now. Don't come back. Ever. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Only one small modification..... her feelings are wholly irrelevant. Consider YOU and YOUR feelings. Assume this thought...... I don't give a recruit sailor's damn about her or her feelings. I am getting loose from her, forever.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Wow....there was another post on here where the man was in the same situation as you (absent the physical abuse). They had 1 child so the man tried very hard to keep the peace and avoid divorce. In that case the wife focused on the man's mother. As time went on the wife's level of anger grew and was disproportionate to anything the mother did.

I think the wife was diagnosed with being bi-polar. There was no middle ground and they eventually divorced. 

He finally realized it was not about his mother - the mother was just a convenient target for his wife's mental illness.

I'll try to find the post.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Here's the post that may be on point with your situation.
I only found it because he updated recently in the last few days.

If you post enough (I don't know how many messages makes you eligible) you can message Tom directly and maybe arrange to speak with him.
I'm not sure how active he is on here.

Is this controlling behavior or is it just me?
by TomNebraska


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I hope your culture allows for divorce, because you need out of this NOW. Something is very wrong with your wife! DO NOT alienate your family for this woman, it wont help anyway. Please get yourself out of this!


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

I urge you to read @TomNebraska’s thread. It is the seventh or eighth thread in the general relationship forum.

Your wife has all the characteristics of a person with borderline personality disorder (BPD). A person with BPD rarely if ever gets better. There is a poster on TAM that can help you.

Shout out to @Uptown.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

@*Absurdist*, thanks so much for the call-out!


> *My counselor said that it seems like the violence is getting worse and that chances are she will not change for the better.*


District, I agree with your counselor, *TJW*, and *3X* -- all of whom told you that this behavior almost certainly will get worse. I also agree with *Absurdist* that you are describing red flags for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

The behaviors you describe -- i.e., verbal and physical abuse, controlling demands, temper tantrums, great fear of abandonment (trying to isolate you from your family), black-white thinking, always being "The Victim" (blaming you for every misfortune), and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (hating you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD.

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD. Only a professional can determine that. Instead, I'm suggesting you consider whether she may be exhibiting a strong pattern of BPD symptoms (i.e., is a "pwBPD").


> *She would physically lash out and strike me in her rage, punch/slaps/kicks*.


Physical abuse and/or strong anger issues are associated with having strong traits of a personality disorder, particularly BPD. This is why _"Intense, inappropriate anger"_ is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. Indeed, the terms _"anger," "dangerous behavior,"_ and _"unstable"_ appear in 4 of the 9 symptoms for BPD. See 9 Traits at BPDdemystified.

For these reasons, the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are pwBPD.


> *I feel that I am constantly on edge with my wife*


If your W is a pwBPD, she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of anger that is already there. A pwBPD has very weak control over her emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

This is why a pwBPD can burst into a rage in only ten seconds. And this is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused loved ones) is titled _Stop Walking on Eggshells_. It is published in 8 languages.



> *A couple of days would pass and she is back to being a loving wife.*


A pwBPD is capable of loving you very intensely but it is the very immature type of love you see in young children. This means she will occasionally flip -- in only ten seconds -- from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (devaluing or hating you). And a few hours or days later, she can flip back again just as quickly. These rapid flips arise from a childish behavior called _"black-white thinking."_

Like a young child, a pwBPD is too emotionally immature to be able to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate). This means she has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships.

She thus will subconsciously split off the conflicting feeling, putting it far out of reach of her conscious mind. With young children, this "splitting" is evident when the child will adore Daddy while he's bringing out the toys but, in only ten seconds, will flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away.

Importantly, this behavior does not mean that the child has stopped loving Daddy. Rather, it means that her conscious mind is temporarily out of touch with those loving feelings.

Similarly, a pwBPD will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

This B-W thinking also will be evident in her frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." Because her close friends eventually will be "split black," it is unusual for a BPDer to have any really close _long-term_ friends (unless they live a long distance away).



> *She would take any, what I would consider minor comments as I know what my family is like, she takes them to heart... taken it in the wrong way.*


The human condition is that, whenever we experience very intense feelings, our perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations is distorted. This is true for ALL of us. This distortion is far more frequent and severe for a pwBPD because, given her inability to regulate her own emotions, she experiences intense feelings far more frequently that other people do.



> *I don’t know what will trigger her off again... she gets upset as and when she feels like.*


If your W is a pwBPD, it will be impossible to avoid triggering her two fears. She will perceive you as wrong if you DO and wrong if you DON'T.

This conundrum is due to the position of her two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at opposite ends of the _very same spectrum_. This means you often find yourselves in a lose/lose situation because, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will start triggering the fear at the other end of that same spectrum.

Your predicament is that the solution to calming her _abandonment_ fear (drawing close and being intimate) is the very action that triggers her engulfment fear. Likewise, the solution to calming her _engulfment_ fear (moving back away to give her breathing space) is the very action that triggers her abandonment fear.

Hence, as you move close to comfort her and assure her of your love, you eventually will start triggering her engulfment fear, making her feel like she's being suffocated and controlled by you. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you will find that you've started triggering her abandonment fear.

In my 15 years of experience with my BPD exW, I found that there is no midpoints solution (between "too close" and "too far away") where you can safely stand to avoid triggering those two fears. Until a pwBPD learns how to better regulate her own emotions and tame her two fears, that Goldilocks position will not exist. This is why a relationship with an untreated pwBPD typically is characterized by a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back.

Indeed, even if you are sitting perfectly still and not saying a word, a pwBPD who is experiencing hurtful feelings will project those feelings onto YOU. Her subconscious does this to protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality -- and to externalize the pain, getting it outside her body. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she will consciously be convinced that the painful feeling or hurtful thought is coming from YOU.

Hence, as long as you remain in a relationship with an untreated pwBPD, you will often find yourself hurting her -- i.e., triggering her engulfment fear as you draw near, triggering her abandonment fear as you draw back, and triggering her anger even when you are sitting still in a room saying absolutely nothing.



> *It hasn’t occurred before but we didn’t live together before. The first bout of physical abuse was 3/4 months in to living with each other.*


If your partner is a pwBPD, her infatuation during the courtship convinced her that you were the nearly perfect man who had arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. In that way, the infatuation held her two fears at bay. About 4 to 6 months into the relationship, however, her infatuation would have started fading and both fears would have returned in full force. Hence, during this honeymoon period, she very likely was sincere about adoring you.



> *Any advice would be great.*


Of course, learning to spot BPD warning signs will not enable you to diagnose her issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe and persistent as to constitute a full-blown disorder.

Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., remaining in a toxic relationship or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Learning the red flags also can help you decide when professional guidance is needed.

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so and you have questions, I would be glad to join* Absurdist, TJW, 3X, FarSide, Robert, Tom*, and the other respondents in discussing them with you.


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## District89 (Nov 19, 2018)

Thank you all so much for taking the time to help and provide your inputs. I will read the BPD literature and see where my scenario relates. 

As of right now, she is being very loving and caring (a normal wife, one might say) and I automatically can’t help but feel guilty about asking for this help when we aren’t in a fight. 

The other issue was that she has told her family and friends about what she goes through with me and my family and I haven’t told anyone except my counsellor - I did ask her if she has told them the FULL story, as in; the physical/verbal abuse and her response was simply “what do you mean? I’ve never hit you. Prove it” - I guess I was naive to assume she would tell them how it makes her react, they only know one side as in their eyes she’s does nothing wrong.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

1. Do NOT get her pregnant. 
2. Tell your family what is going on. 
3. Consult an attorney, and then file for divorce. 

Physical abuse is NEVER ok and NEVER the victims fault.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

District89 said:


> “what do you mean? I’ve never hit you. Prove it”


This is abuser 101. Deny the truth, that if accepted, would necessitate change. They simply want to believe it's your fault. If only you wouldn't make them so mad......

If abuser 101 script is followed (which, it usually always is) your wife will not admit to her family that she is abusive and violent toward you.

I'm not a shrink, I'm just a country boy. I don't know about BPD or any of that. But, what I do know are these three things:

1) the way your wife treats you is WRONG (yeah, that's right, I said WRONG.....)

2) the way your wife treats you is NOT YOUR FAULT. It is her own choice, made under her own control.

3) you cannot solve your wife's problem. She has to do that, and it will require that she admit to herself, and others, that she is violent and abusive.

Please don't stay there. This is not going to get better. This is not going to change.

Dr. Phil says "...you can't change what you don't acknowledge....". Even when, if ever, your wife acknowledges the truth about herself, then a very LONG period of professional psychotherapy, advice, medication, etc. can begin. YEARS will be required for satisfactory results......

Your wife is not a "normal wife". She can live with the "mask" on for a time, but sooner or later (and passage of time usually means sooner and more violent) the mask comes off, and the REAL HER is exposed.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Spicy said:


> 1. Do NOT get her pregnant.
> 2. Tell your family what is going on.
> 3. Consult an attorney, and then file for divorce.
> 
> Physical abuse is NEVER ok and NEVER the victims fault.


 The above advice is exactly right. Your wife is an abuser. Nothing it you are doing is causing her to abuse you. She is abusing you because that is who she is.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You can either waste years trying to "fix" this or you can accept this is who she is and move on. Fortunately for you there are no children to tie you to her. Make sure there never are.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

District89 said:


> Thank you all so much for taking the time to help and provide your inputs. I will read the BPD literature and see where my scenario relates.
> 
> As of right now, she is being very loving and caring (a normal wife, one might say) and I automatically can’t help but feel guilty about asking for this help when we aren’t in a fight.
> 
> The other issue was that she has told her family and friends about what she goes through with me and my family and I haven’t told anyone except my counsellor - I did ask her if she has told them the FULL story, as in; the physical/verbal abuse and her response was simply “what do you mean? I’ve never hit you. Prove it” - I guess I was naive to assume she would tell them how it makes her react, they only know one side as in their eyes she’s does nothing wrong.


I almost married a guy with BPD. We didn't know what the problem was at the time but years later, when his marriage blew apart he was finally diagnosed. 

Those periods of happiness and tranquility that make you feel guilty for wanting to leave will become shorter and shorter. And the outbursts will become more and more angry and violent. I was lucky, my ex never hit me, the worst he did physically was punch the wall right next to my head. But the words he used were more powerful than any fist by far. To this day I can't handle being called a ***** or worse. It's not pretty if that happens, which thankfully, my STBX always respected me enough not to ever call me names or scream "**** you!!" to me, ever. We wouldn't have married if he had. That kind of stuff stays with you. 

And her acting like the physical abuse never happened is because in her mind it doesn't. She flies off the handle in a rage and doesn't even remember what she's done. Or if she does, she downplays it so much that it doesn't matter. I used to ask my ex not to call me a **** all the time and he was always like "I don't do that!" Um...yes you did, about 5 times in one conversation the last time you got angry. But he would swear he never did. 

It won't get better, it will only get worse. You only have one life to life, you should make it count. And staying with her will only make it miserable. 

I'm sorry.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She will never change. She will only get worse.

Please leave her now.

See a lawyer for a dissolution of marriage; get that going. Start moving your stuff out piece by piece so she doesn't notice, and store it at a friend's house. When you're down to your last suitcase or two, put them in your car and leave her a note and just leave. And as you're leaving, call her parents and your parents and explain about the abuse and that you're leaving so nobody gets hurt. First person to tell the story gets believed.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

District89 said:


> Thank you all so much for taking the time to help and provide your inputs. I will read the BPD literature and see where my scenario relates.
> 
> As of right now, she is being very loving and caring (a normal wife, one might say) and I automatically can’t help but feel guilty about asking for this help when we aren’t in a fight.
> 
> The other issue was that she has told her family and friends about what she goes through with me and my family and I haven’t told anyone except my counsellor - I did ask her if she has told them the FULL story, as in; the physical/verbal abuse and her response was simply “what do you mean? I’ve never hit you. Prove it” - I guess I was naive to assume she would tell them how it makes her react, they only know one side as in their eyes she’s does nothing wrong.


This behavior rarely get better in time and in almost always escalates. She's made your family an issue because she wants to isolate you and it will at some point also become friends or coworkers etc., anyone she perceive's as a threat to her control over you. Over time the loving/caring wife periods will become less and less. You simply can't avoid disagreements in marriage. 

You've only been married a very short time, you really should strongly consider divorce and get out while the gettings good. It only get more complicated as time goes on.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your wife is mentally ill. She will not get better.

In fact she will get worse.

If she will not get treatment you need to leave her and get a divorce.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The only one that can keep you in this is you. Everyone is correct this will get worse.

Better get moving before she breaks your nose.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

You are living with far worse than just abuse and control my friend - you are living in a domestic violence situation. These situations almost always escalate to one or both parties being killed.

Get out NOW.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

I feel like I've been paged...

Yes, @District89, I endured much of this same sort of treatment; except I had a kid with her before it really got extreme.

Also, my (now ex) wife was never physically abusive; but as @notmyjamie says, verbal and mental abuse can be just as damaging, and it sounds like your wife engages in all three. At least consider yourself lucky you don't already have a kid, and also lucky that you're wife has made your decision a bit clearer, with the "choose them or me" ultimatum.

If I could make a checklist for all the things you should be doing right now, the first thing would be to reiterate what others have said: 

1) *DO NOT GET HER PREGNANT*. Do not take ANY chances either.

2) Privacy. Keep any personal planning around coping , learning about BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), *completely private*. Do not leave this site open, keep your browser history private, password protect everything, and do not leave any books or papers related to the foregoing around the house. You may get some blowback from this, if she questions why you did something private... just lie... say you were picking a present for her or something.

I kept my copy of _Walking On Eggshells_ hidden in my office, and would read it in my car at lunch.

A personal anecdote: After a couple incidents where she'd ask to "borrow" my phone on some absurd pretext, and then preceded to go through it until she found something - no matter how ridiculous - to blow up over, I made my phone password protected, and didn't give her the number. She HATED this, but had painted herself into a corner over it, and didn't really do much more than complain about it. 

When I say "no matter how ridiculous"... I mean it. She once went apoplectic because I hadn't texted any pictures of her to my mom recently, which meant I was "on my mom's side" because my mom hated her... and later she complained I didn't send good pictures of her to my mom. 

But remember: it's never what they say; all this is intended solely to create and perpetuate conflict & control you. They use conflict as a coping mechanism. You cannot make it stop by addressing their complaints or going along with their demands; they will simply find something else to challenge you over​
3) Support. You may want to confide in family members you trust what you're going through. It may be necessary to rely on them for support down the road, and it's easier to do this if you're not having to explain everything you went through, or they're questioning your motives and thinking you're overreacting to a typical marital fight, or lover's quarrel.

The key point is to make sure the person or people you talk to will keep this confidential. You don't want them to start to gossip about what you're going through, or try to call your wife and talk to her... that will only blow up in your face.

4) Cultural bias? You mentioned your culture as a reason why you didn't live together before marriage. I don't know if this extends to making it difficult to divorce... so it's important to get your family on your side and understanding where you're coming from.

5) get a voice activated recorder (VAR), and wear it in your shirt pocket if you expect conflict. 

6) start taking precautions to get ready to leave (possibly permanently) if you have to... 

6a) move personal effects to storage, or give to family members for safekeeping. 

6b) Stash away some emergency funds. 

6c) Don't put her name on any accounts other than the bare minimum of things you've had to give her access to.

6d) Get references for a family law attorney, and maybe even call them and schedule an appointment to understand the process, amount you need for the retainer, etc.​
7) Guilt? Don't feel guilty for doing any of the above. In my opinion, when a person is willing to abuse their spouse, and their spouse's trust, they've forfeited the right to receive the same in return. 

***It is again, very important to keep all this *private*, as any indication you're attempting to leave, or even keeping some modicum of privacy from her will provoke an extreme reaction, and much more scrutiny from her.

I feel for you, having to endure physical abuse. That was something I never had to go through. 

So above all else... be safe. I have to qualify all my advice based on that. If you think something is going to provoke a physical response, and you're not ready to leave the situation, put it off for another occasion.

I can't imagine being able to sleep, knowing the person next to me was capable of physically attacking me, and mentally unstable. 

Also, don't listen to anyone who wants to blame you for this situation; there are posters here who have their own issues, and their own axes to grind, and will want to take the piss out of you for _doing XYZ_, or _not doing XYZ_... ignore them.

This isn't your fault, and there's nothing you could've done better to prevent it or avoid it. Get out, get help if you feel you need it, and move on with your life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tom's post is gold. I would only add one thing - she's a woman so she WILL at some point try to use the police card on you. Be aware, be forewarned, keep that VAR in your pocket at all times, and consider filing a report with the police about her abuse. If you establish a pattern of abuse that's already in the cops' hands, they will/should be less likely to believe her when she tries to pull the he hit me card.

Oh, and be prepared for her to hurt HERSELF so she can blame it on you.


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## District89 (Nov 19, 2018)

TomNebraska said:


> I feel like I've been paged...
> 
> Yes, @District89, I endured much of this same sort of treatment; except I had a kid with her before it really got extreme.
> 
> ...


Tom, thanks for taking the time out for giving your input - being someone on the receiving end of similar abuse it couldn’t have been easy rehashing all your old experiences, so thanks again. 

I have definitely kept everything private - this forum is only ever opened via an email link; I don’t gave any saved cookies or web history on my phone where she can find it so I think I’m ok there. Although she does regularly ask to see my phone to have a browse through my social media - she’s said she doesn’t trust me. 

I have confided in a close friend about what is going on, but I haven’t told him about the physical abuse side of things, I feel held back giving that information - not sure how to say it to be honest! 

Yes due to our culture we weren’t allowed to stay together before we got married (which is sad because I would’ve saved a shedload of money that I spent on our wedding if I knew all of this would happen before) divorce was taboo in the past but more recently it is something that happens fairly often, having said that I would still like to avoid it if I can, I’m forever an optimist - in fact both of our siblings have separated from previous marriages before. 

I have recorded evidence and sent all of it to my counsellor - he asked me to do this because he knows she goes through my phone. If I ever need it he will send it back to me, so nothing is saved on my phone. 

I miss my family - I have been made to feel like I can’t have a relationship with them, I don’t like to answer my phone from them when she’s around. I sometimes pray they don’t call on evenings because I know she will get angry and after the conversation is done she’ll give me the silent treatment.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So basically, you are acting just like an abuse victim - you are isolating yourself from your family just to avoid her wrath. You are hiding things from her. You are changing your actions.

And you want to save this marriage?

There's another woman out there for you, District, one who isn't mentally ill.

Another point: If she WERE to get help and get better, it will never happen while you are there. It will only happen if you leave and give her a reason to get better.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

District89 said:


> ...
> 
> I have definitely kept everything private - this forum is only ever opened via an email link; I don’t gave any saved cookies or web history on my phone where she can find it so I think I’m ok there. Although she does regularly ask to see my phone to have a browse through my social media - she’s said she doesn’t trust me.


Good. 

Isn't it ridiculous though for her to do that? If one was going to cheat, and knew their partner regularly inspected their phone & social media, they simply would make sure not to cheat via this method, or make fake profiles, cover their tracks, use a burner phone, etc. So, logically, one would realize it's not possible to catch your partner by openly snooping, and learn to trust them, or otherwise keep their snooping on the DL...

But of course, her demanding to go through your phone isn't about that, just like it wasn't when my XW would demand to borrow/see mine: it's about them finding something - _ANYTHING _- to attack you over, to deal with their own anxiety in an unhealthy way. 

Instead of getting help for their own anxiety, paranoia, and insecurity, they attack their partner or spouse, changing the dynamic from a feeling of weakness, to one of aggression and control. 

They get you on your heels being defensive, and they no longer feel these feelings of anxiety/insecurity; and in a sick way, it can help them cope with the paranoia as well: if you're being defensive they reason, you MUST have done SOMETHING wrong.



District89 said:


> Yes due to our culture we weren’t allowed to stay together before we got married (which is sad because I would’ve saved a shedload of money that I spent on our wedding if I knew all of this would happen before) divorce was taboo in the past but more recently it is something that happens fairly often, having said that I would still like to avoid it if I can, I’m forever an optimist - in fact both of our siblings have separated from previous marriages before.


Well, you can be an optimist, but in this case, do not expect any improvement in your partner's behavior, attitude toward you, or treatment of you. 

I'm not trying to be harsh; I went through this same realization a few years ago. 

If you decide you want to stay in this relationship, you're going to need to learn better skills to cope with her continuous outbursts and attacks. Also, say "*goodbye*" to *any other personal relationship*s: friends, coworkers, family, etc. Your spouse will view all these as a threat, and attack you over them. And she's already seen that her attacks "work" on you and have gotten you to conform your behavior, so she will certainly continue to act in this manner.

My XW would try _anything _to attack my personal relationships - _even friendships with other men_. She would attack their character and question why I, as a married man, still valued friends like that. Or if they were new relationships - even a coworker who was married and had kids as well - she would claim he was "probably gay" and hitting on me (!!!). And of course, she would later say I needed to meet more friends, find other guys to do things with, play a sport again... all to undermine my confidence. Of course, when I played softball and volleyball in a work league, after the games I would get grief for going out for beers with my teammates, endless questions about girls on the teams, questions about whether I "liked" any of those girls, etc. 

This is/was all insane, but it shows the how far pwBPD are willing to take things due to their own personal issues.

There are websites more suited toward coping with a relationship like this (BPDfamily.com; The Nicola Method has some interesting coping strategies for high conflict relationships). I would check those out if you really think you want to stick it out. 

People here will just tell you to leave; and they have a point. 

But there are no "right" or "wrong" answers here; it's just a matter of how much abuse you're willing to tolerate. 



District89 said:


> I have recorded evidence and sent all of it to my counsellor - he asked me to do this because he knows she goes through my phone. If I ever need it he will send it back to me, so nothing is saved on my phone.


Good. 



District89 said:


> I miss my family - I have been made to feel like I can’t have a relationship with them, I don’t like to answer my phone from them when she’s around. I sometimes pray they don’t call on evenings because I know she will get angry and after the conversation is done she’ll give me the silent treatment.


I went through this as well. MY XW never presented it as an ultimatum though. I think because I made clear the "choose me or them" meant I'd leave her, and our first marital counselor said the same thing: no spouse should be in that position of having to cut family out of their lives. 

So instead of the "frontal assault" she tried other nefarious means of sabotaging my relationship with my family.

She would:
- Question why I talked to any family members in private, and asked that I include her in all conversations

- When I complied, or tried to, she would question WHY I wanted to talk to my mom, dad, grandpa, aunt, etc.

- If I insisted and made the call with her present, she would make all sorts of snide comments on the side, demand to know why I said this or that, etc., and in general make the whole process such a nightmare that I realized she was not acting in good faith, and went back to calling family & friends on the DL.

- Get enraged if I mentioned "My family" and insist that the family I had was her and our daughter, not everyone else.

- pick fights with my family members via text or email, and then try to wrangle me into them

- put so many qualifications on family member's visits that they would call me and back out of visiting

- if I didn't take her side - and "her side" was not ever exactly clear - I was in for shouting matches, door slammings, sleepless nights, days of silent treatment. 

_YUCK! _

Glad I'm done with it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

turnera said:


> If she WERE to get help and get better, it will never happen while you are there.


This is correct. Abusers do not see themselves as "the problem" until their victim can no longer possibly be blamed. Until a person acknowledges his culpability, and has no one else, or no other circumstance to blame, there can be no effective help.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Leave her, she will never change. Stop blaming yourself for her actions. She is a violent person because she can’t control herself, nothing to do with you or you family. Let her be someone’s else drama.


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