# so lost



## chisox05 (Jun 3, 2011)

Hey, I don't know where else to go for advice, but I need some outside opinions on my dilemma...here is is...its a very long story, so I'll try to condense it as much as I can. Hopefully some of you will read the whole thing...
My wife and I have been married for just about 9 years now, and things have been good for the most part until a couple months ago. We live in Chicago at the moment and have had a very rough year financially. I have two jobs (one a state job) and she had one and we were still struggling. This is mainly due to the fact that we filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy a year and a half ago. Under the plan, the court sets up a monthly payment to pay off your debt, and this payment was too high and we couldn't pay/catch up on our other bills. We do make enough to live here...more than enough, but we would have to convert the chapter 13 to a chapter 7.
Then three months ago, she confessed she was flirting with a guy in California over the phone and said that it was because she was unhappy with our situation and that we needed to move...the three options were Kentucky(by her parents), Iowa(by her brother), or North Dakota(by her other brothers). I was still taken aback by the confession, so I really didn't say anything, but she started the process anyway and took a detailed list of our bills to her parents for advice.
Heres what they came up with:
We move in with them in Kentucky, rent free, for a few months, they would rent a storage unit for our stuff, and change our chapter 13 to a chapter 7. Thats the one that they just eliminate all our debt, but they will take the car we have. 
I know many of you are thinking, "ok, it sounds pretty good." and I totally do agree that it is generous for them to offer that. The problem is my job...like i said, one of my jobs is a state job...its very secure, state benefits, and a state pension. This pension is the only type of savings we have whatsoever for retirement, and under this plan of theirs, I would cash that out (with a 30% penalty), pay them back for the storage unit, and buy 2 used cars...basically use all of it. The cars would be needed because there's really no public transportation where we would be living.
I find this plan...quite frankly, very risky and foolish. It would definitely help to be rent free for a few months to get on our feet, but I really don't know if leaving a state job in the current economy is a good idea, and then blowing all of our retirement savings on top of it. I have tried numerous times to try and express my opinion and my concerns, which always result in her calling me names and just being vicious...and huge arguments have resulted...the worst of our marriage.
About a month ago, she said after the biggest argument to date, that she didn't want to lose me, so we would figure something out to stay in Chicago and do whatever it takes. I feel that this was all smoke and mirrors, because 2 days later, she got a call for an interview for a job in Kentucky and she took it almost immediately for a $2 an hour pay cut. Shes been living out there for 2 weeks now, while I pack here and wait out the end of the lease, June 30th., at which I have no choice and must move down there with no job, no nothing...
So, in a nutshell, i have 2 options...keep my wife and lose my job, pension, etc., or keep my job and lose my wife. I have to be honest and say that it has been an extremely tough decision to make, and I still havent decided anything. This makes me feel so guilty, because I would think that any good husband would keep his wife, I just am having real doubts and issues with commiting to this plan and uprooting the rest of my life in the process.
Thank you to all who stuck around to read the whole thing...believe it or not, thats still not everything...told you it was long! lol I hope to hear anyones thoughts on this and welcome all outside advice! thanks!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Skipping by the financial issues for now. Where is the "Other Guy" in all of this now? Is she still in contact?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your basic problem isn't the Chapter 13 cause your finances were in obviously poor shape before the Chap 13 or you wouldn't have filed. How old are you? How much money are we talking about in your retirement account? Spending your pension savings at 30 is a lot different than spending it at age 50. What would be the odds of transfering your state job to a less expensive area of Illinois? You'd get a lower cost of living but you'd keep building your state pension.
I've got 17 years at my city police department. It'd take an awful lot for me to split when I'm so close to retirement. I sure wouldn't do it for a woman who chats up other guys. As tempting as it might sound to live rent-free for a few months, I'd avoid it if possible. I believe couples tend to do best when they're on their own turf and extended family members don't get involved in their business. It makes Thanksgiving and Christmas a lot more pleasant. You haven't set foot in Kentucky and they're already helping dictate your pension disposition, car purchases, and presumably employment decisions. You said "they" came up with the plan. That means you weren't involved.  I think there are 49 other states I would try before Kentucky.


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## chisox05 (Jun 3, 2011)

hey, thanks for responding...
answering the questions:

amp: the "other guy" she claimed to have met through work. She said he was the "light bulb rep" for the store she worked. I really don't believe that al all. Right after it happened, she did text/speak to him a couple times, and confessed that it was it was because there was a problem with her light bulb order...when I asked why he called her personal cell phone instead of the store number, she said that he didn't have the number?? Come on...what kind of rep doesnt have the phone number to one of his customers?? Anyways...I told her to text him right then and there and tell him she was married. After arguing for a minute and calling me irrational, she finally did, and I made her show me his response so I could make sure he got it. He did, and as far as I know, that was it. I have gone on periodically to look at her cell phone activity, and theres no evidence. I know that may make me sound like a jealous *******, but I'm sorry, I'm not about to turn my life upside if she's gonna continue to disrespect our marriage like that.


and, unbelievable...as far as my pension, it's not a huge amount...about 6500, so thats why i said it would all be blown by buying 2 cars, etc. I'm 33, and I've been a full time state employee for 3 years now, hence the low amount. I know its a menial amount in the broad prospective of ones life, but the fact still remains that at the moment, it is truly all we have for retirement. Not only that, but thats all my money in there (+interest). At 5 years, the state matches my contribution DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR! I may get extremely lucky to get that somewhere else, but I highly doubt it. I work at a state university, and I did suggest that we move downstate to lower the cost of living. She said that wouldnt help because we wouldn't have the support system from our family...so I really don't think this move is totally because of finances, shes just hiding behind it as an excuse. Regardless unbelievable, you are absolutely correct...I have had no say in this decision whatsoever. If I raise any concern about it, basically I'm called lazy and that I should "get on board". I am being forced into doing something I'm 100% against in order to keep my wife. Our finances are totally messed up...but I truly believe that relocating and getting new jobs is not the key to us getting out of this. I feel the key is the chapter 7. She was very unhappy at her job here, and wanted a new one. She had to drive to the suburbs for it. My suggestion was that she gets a job somewhere in the city where she could use public transportation to get there, since she wanted a new job anyway...then, we file ch 7 here...we wouldn't have the ch 13 payment, have to pay for full coverage for a 2005 kia, etc. We would have been fine...I totally believe that. but that was stupid...so whatever...


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

I agree with Unbelievable. Kentucky is the last place I would want to move to. Your W abandoned you by packing up and leaving without your agreeing to it. If you follow her, she will hold all the cards. All of her family will support her, not you. Indeed, they've already figured out how to spend your $6,000 the day you arrive. On top of that, you'll be out of a job, making you look even weaker to your W. If she doesn't think highly enough of you to stay with you now, it won't improve things for her to see you unemployed, Chisox. Finally, the March 2011 unemployment figures show that Kentucky is the 6th worst state in the nation because its unemployment rate (10.5%) is so high. And, because Kentucky was 10th worst a year earlier, Kentucky apparently has been slower than other states in coming out of the recession. You can check the state rankings at NM Department of Workforce Solutions.


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## chisox05 (Jun 3, 2011)

and thats my biggest fear uptown! She knows that I'm not staying there the rest of my life (if I do go to KY), and I'm just so scared that when that time comes, she'll tell me to go alone...then I would have absolutely nothing! I don't know if I want to put myself in that situation..I believe that figure on KY unemployment, thats why I really don't want to go and just roll the dice! for whatever the reason, she and her parents for whatever reason make it sound like i'm just going to get a job once I get there...no big deal! I didn't realize it was 10.5...thats even higher than Illinois!


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree with "unbelievable" that your problem is not Chapter 13 filing, but spending beyond your means. Chapter 13 bankruptcy provides for a court approved budget designed to allow repaying of debt at a reduced amount while you maintain your ability to work. If you are filing for Chapter 7 (liquidation of assets) it means that you didn't keep up with the budget you agreed to under the Chapter 13 action and spent the money elsewhere.

Having said that, I do not believe leaving your current job and moving to KY makes FINANCIAL sense. However, I think you are not expressing the reasons for keeping your job and staying in Chicago very well which is why you likely end up in arguments with your wife over it.

State Job, State Benefits, Very Secure.
Don't kid yourself. NO job is secure these days, not even state jobs. Trust me, I spent many years as an elected official in my local government and we cut many jobs over those years. The same goes for benefits which are always being reduced, or at risk of being reduced by government officials. I'm not saying this isn't a good reason to stay in Chicago, just don't present it to your wife or her parents as a "guarantee" that can't be passed up.

Pension.
You are 33 with no savings and facing bankruptcy and therefore are already behind the "eight-ball" in terms of retirement planning. Retirement planning should have started when you were in your 20's. From that perspective, your supposition that losing the $6500 currently in your pension plan if you quit your job is going to hurt you financially is nonsensical. By the time you retire that $6500 probably won't buy you a cup of coffee. In the context of a retirement fund it is a trivial amount and not worth thinking twice about. Your wife and her parents probably recognize this. Instead of emphasizing the dollar amount, emphasize the fact that you HAVE a pension plan the city contributes to for you (assuming they do). THAT is the value of retaining your job there, not the $6500 currently in the account.

Chapter 7.
If you are going to file Chapter 7 to move to KY then you might as well file Chapter 7 and stay in Chicago. Chap-7 liquidates your assets but also gets you out of debt completely, except for some exempt items which I suspect you are not affected by anyway. You have already said that your jobs provide you with more than enough money to live in Chicago, therefore it is your discretionary spending habits which have put you into your financial predicament and not a lack of income. Assuming you are successful with a Chap-7 individual bankruptcy (and with three good paying jobs I'm not sure you would be), there would be no reason to leave Chicago because you would be debt free and therefore no logical reason to leave your current jobs in Chicago. With your current state job, pension, and benefits there is ample evidence to suggest that after a Chap-7 filing you would be financially worse off in KY.

Having addressed the financial issues, let's move to the relationship issue. If you cannot convince your wife that staying in Chicago is the right thing to do, FOLLOW YOUR WIFE. She has every right to be unhappy with your current financial situation except to the extent that she contributed to it. It sounds to me that she anticipates a new start will hopefully lead to a new outcome, and she may not be wrong about that. It seems clear that she definitely feels bad "mojo" with Chicago. I would certainly make my best argument to stay in Chicago, but wouldn't give up my wife to keep a job.

No matter what you decide, get your spending under control. That's what got you into this problem to begin with.


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