# I don't know what to believe. Another emotional affair case:



## danielria (Jun 27, 2012)

About three weeks ago I caught my wife talking to a past boyfriend. I confronted her with this and she told me all about it. She said that she looked him up to talk about something that happened in the past. She admitted to having an emotional affair with this man. She also said that she visited with him once and that they did in fact kiss. She said that she got caught up in the moment because she told him about her desire to have a baby. He told her that he would be a donor for her if I didn't want to do it. 
She told me that she was sorry and would never contact this man again. She has cried on multiple occasions telling me that she is sorry. I stayed in bed for about three days because I could not believe what had happened. I know that she feels guilty about it and I really didn't think that she realized how much I love her. She knows this now and wants to make it work.
The problem is that my wife is going through menopause. She had approached me several months ago wanting to try and have a baby. My wife has never been able to have a child of her own and would require using an egg donor and IVF (me and another female's egg). 
Well, I feel that some of this is my fault because I would not listen to her. She shut me out and went looking for someone that would listen to her. She claims that nothing sexual happened between her and this guy, but I can’t get this thought out of my head. How do I know for sure if she’s telling me the truth?
I have never had to doubt this woman in the almost 20 years that we have been married. Is there anyone out there that can help me get past this? I had agreed to go to the IVF clinic with her and do this. But the very next day I caught her talking to this guy. I have not been an easy person to live with and we have not had time to spend with one another because of me being in school and her working too much.
I love this woman with all my heart! In fact, I have never loved any woman like I do her. We have two kids that we adopted and I don’t want to lose my family. Still, the thought of her having an emotional affair is bad enough, and the idea of her having had sex with this guy is still in my head.
I can’t sleep at night and I have lost 12 lbs in the past two weeks because I can’t even eat. Can anyone offer me some help? I feel like a ping pong ball and the match has no end. If I leave, I will lose her and my family. If I stay, then I am going to have to live with the thought that she might have had sex with this guy. I have never had to worry about her in the past. I know that she loves me and I know that I love her. Well, I hope that someone can be of some sort of help to me! Thanks!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Just reposting my previous answer.

To answer your question more directly, get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It's an excellent, excellent book that explains emotional affairs like no other because Glass was a nationally recognized researcher in infidelity and her book summarized her knowledge and learning.

What you are seeing is that your wife has become infatuated with her ex. She is experiencing it as "love" because the emotion is that sensation of falling in love. It is very powerful and she will continue to contact him unless you draw a line in the sand. 

You are saying you did not listen to her when she was expressing a deeply felt wish. That obviously is a tough thing and now she's gone (very inappropriately, in a very selfish way) to get that need fulfilled outside of marriage. There are likely things that you will need to do to improve the communications between you, and that will almost surely require good-quality pro-marriage counseling.

However, that cannot happen before she fully ends contact with this man. That would involve her writing a No Contact message that you supervise and oversee the sending (there are formats on the forum). That is creating a definitive break and ending ritual of their contact, an acknowledgment that it's inappropriate and it has to end FOREVER with no "but you'll always be in my heart"s or "I'm still thinking of you no matter what happens" etc. That just keeps the door open to contact him again and again.

Until she ends it with him (and you will need to continue to verify it for a bit, because infatuation is so strong), you have 3 people in the marriage and counseling and changing won't work.


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## 50shades (Jun 12, 2012)

I found my husband having an affair about a year ago. I understand the pain involved. It sounds to me like you will not get past this until you believe and have the whole truth one way or another. She may not have been physical..but you are going to continue to wonder. Have you checked phone records? Do you have skype? Do you know her passwords to check FB etc? I know it seems low to sneak around and check..but you need to know what you are dealing with to make good decisions. My husband lied and lied until I found proof. We are working on our marriage now.


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## danielria (Jun 27, 2012)

50shades said:


> I found my husband having an affair about a year ago. I understand the pain involved. It sounds to me like you will not get past this until you believe and have the whole truth one way or another. She may not have been physical..but you are going to continue to wonder. Have you checked phone records? Do you have skype? Do you know her passwords to check FB etc? I know it seems low to sneak around and check..but you need to know what you are dealing with to make good decisions. My husband lied and lied until I found proof. We are working on our marriage now.


No, I don't have access to the phone records. I have thought about asking for them, but I don't want her to get mad. My mom and mother-in-law both told me that my wife told them that she still loves me very much. She said that my attitude and the fact that I wouldn't listen to her hurt her a lot. I have never had to deal with the issue of trust before. She is a good woman, but this still hurts like hell. I have never in my life felt a pain like I have this past few weeks. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemies.


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## 50shades (Jun 12, 2012)

If its a cell phone..you should be able to check the records online. But you shouldnt be concerned about her getting mad. If she is being above board and honest with you..it wont matter. If she isnt..then she still isnt commited to your marriage.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Don't be so afraid of asking. This is your wife. What she does when you're not around isn't supposed to be secret.

You'd responded in my thread as your first post, this other guy my wife was texting... At first I read through the text messages on my wife's phone at night after she fell asleep, sometimes I'd ask about them, but my wife was never deleting them, never hid the phone.. She knew I could look online at our bill to see what text messages were incoming and outgoing. She never was bothered by me looking at her phone, she knew I did it and would talk about whatever I asked.

In your marriage it should be open and honest, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to see this stuff. If there's nothing to hide, then it'll help you be more trusting.

It's a seperate issue from when you weren't supportive of her desire to have a child.

What I don't get... An ex boyfriend? After you've been married 20 years? I can't help but suspect there's more to this story.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

be aware of trickle truth

when a cheater says it was just a kiss, often it was sex


please read the newbie link in my signature


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Here is what I'd do:

1. get the book Not Just Friends, read it through while everything else is going on because you need to get educated about emotional affairs, and FAST

2. Find any post by Almostrecovered and read his newbie link in his signature (post above mine)

3. research good marriage counselors in your area, find one that is pro-marriage and knowledgeable about infidelity. A good litmus test is if they know the book NJF, because of the level of expertise that went into writing it. Our excellent MC pulled it off his shelf and told my husband to read it. Such a counselor will NOT minimize the affair and the betrayal; many other counselors will ignore it as a minor transgression and zero in on the status of the marriage before counseling, which leads to "rugsweeping" (which doesn't lead to an understanding of WHY she thought it was appropriate to violate marital boundaries).

4. Get the books His Needs / Her Needs, Love Busters, and 5 Love Languages. These books will serve (especially the last short one) as jump starts to show her you're WILLING to work on the marriage. They help couples who love each other learn to express their love in a way that the partner PERCEIVES as love. But realize that until she ditches the OM entirely, you can work on the marriage until the cows come home and it will be for naught.

5. Find a sample NC letter on the forum


--------------------------------------------

Then, sit down with your wife and say:

--I love you very, very much, you mean the world to me and so does our family

--my eyes have been opened, I realize now that you felt we weren't communicating, I am more than willing to work on that and other things that have made our marriage less than ideal

--while I own up to 50% (or whatever you deem appropriate) of any problems we have in our marriage, I am tremendously hurt by your choice to contact this man and enter an inappropriate relationship with him, whatever form it took it was inappropriate.

--I've found a great marriage counselor for us and I've started reading these books, I'd like you to read them too (Not Just Friends, 5 Love Languages, His Needs / Her Needs, Love Busters.)

--I'd like you to take these questionnaires (free on the 5 Love, HN/HN, and LB websites).

--if you love me and want to work on our marriage together, which I definitely want to do, then you will not contact this man ever again. You have to decide, right now, him or me, because I will not tolerate a third person in our marriage. I know this is a leap of faith for you, that I will work hard to improve our marriage, but this is an even bigger leap of faith for me, because I have to learn to trust you again after what you've done to BOTH of us.

--you must write a message of No Contact to this man in this format (show it to her). You may want to say some last farewells to him but that is inappropriate and disrespectful to me and our marriage. The door on him is closing now so the message must be final.

--In order for our marriage to heal and improve and move forward, you must be completely transparent with me, because privacy is for the bathroom, we are heart and soul to each other and should not keep secrets from each other. To that end, while I stand next to you so that you cannot delete them first (so obviously, DON'T ASK FOR THIS until you are prepared to grab the phone out of her hand, etc), you will show me phone records, facebook messages, emails, texts, etc. and you will share all passwords with me. This will prove that you are loyal and you are willing to work on our marriage together.

-----------------------

You will know a lot more from her reaction concerning transparency and No Contact--if she readily agrees that is a good sign (although not definitive)!

Understand that this man was an escape from her reality and he is a compulsive fantasy, she gets "hits" from interacting with him that give her a boost, she will NOT want to magically stop that pleasant feeling she gets from his validation and affirmation. She must go cold turkey from him or your attempts to save things will NOT work.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

danielria said:


> About three weeks ago I caught my wife talking to a *past boyfriend*. I confronted her with this and she told me all about it. She said that she looked him up to talk about something that happened in the past. She admitted to having an emotional affair with this man. *She also said that she visited with him once and that they did in fact kiss.* *She said that she got caught up in the moment* because she told him about her desire to have a baby. He told her that he would be a donor for her if I didn't want to do it.




Yeah, I'm fairly sure she had sex with her old boyfriend.


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## danielria (Jun 27, 2012)

aug said:


> Yeah, I'm fairly sure she had sex with her old boyfriend.


How can you be so sure?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Most of us have been through this.

Sad that you are going through this.

I dont understand this: Her inability to have child of her own. And having EA/PA with her old BF.

Can you separate these two and see?

For the cheaters, EAs do not matter. So why should she be guilty when you confronted her first? Why should she contact him again?

Buddy, the A seems to be more than what you described.

Do some investigative work, confirm if it was only EA.

There is no reason why she should contact her BF.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

danielria said:


> About three weeks ago I caught my *wife talking to a past boyfriend*. I confronted her with this and she told me all about it. She said that she looked him up to talk about something that happened in the past. She admitted to having an emotional affair with this man. *She also said that she visited with him once and that they did in fact kiss*. She said that she got caught up in the moment because she told him about her desire to have a baby. He told her that he would be a donor for her if I didn't want to do it.


Sorry, reconnecting with an old flame is probably the fastest route to an affair...ever. If she has kissed him, then there is physical contact and this is no longer an EA, it's gone PA. You've been married 20 years, so this OM is from a long time ago. You can bet that a lot more happened than just a kiss....*THEY ALWAYS say it was just a kiss*, or just a hug. It's called Trickle Truth. Do you how many times we've read here in this forum where the WS admits to just a kiss or a hug? It ALWAYS ends up being more than that. Therefore, you're not getting full disclosure here.










And why is your WW so interested in having a baby at her age? She's going thru menopause for goodness sakes. Even if she did get pregnant, she would be risking her health and the health of the child. 

My wife was 37 when she gave birth to our youngest, but she had so many complications during the pregnancy that we were so thankful he was a normal child when born. A friend of ours gave birth in her 40s and the child had Downs syndrome. It's just such a risk to have a child later in life.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

danielria said:


> How can you be so sure?


There isn't a way to be sure. But here is why everyone is making that educated guess

--she told you the EA was about a desire to get pregnant
--she chose someone she knows extremely well and who was a sure thing in terms of being attracted to her
--she admits to inappropriate physical contact while alone with him

ie,she had motive, likely intent and opportunity

The real question when you read your set of facts is why stop at a kiss?

You may say, because she loves you or it was wrong. But neither of those issues were enough to stop her from contacting him. AGAIN.

It's more productive right now to deal a blow to the affair. It's far from over if she's still reaching out to him. Remember, actions NOT words are the measure of her desire to reconcile and recommit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

danielria said:


> About three weeks ago I caught my wife talking to a past boyfriend. I confronted her with this and she told me all about it. She said that she looked him up to talk about something that happened in the past. She admitted to having an emotional affair with this man. She also said that she visited with him once and that they did in fact kiss. She said that she got caught up in the moment because she told him about her desire to have a baby. He told her that he would be a donor for her if I didn't want to do it.


 You caught her or she was going to continue with her affair with this other man (OM) behind your back. Cheaters by definition are deceitful. When caught they always trickle truth. The more they show remorse, the more they lie. Their is a saying on all boards such as this that if the cheater said they kissed it means that they had sex. Read other threads on this and other boards and you will see this to be true. Phase one is for posters to tell the board that it was only just a kiss. In phase two the betrayed says that they believe their spouse that it was only just a kiss. In phase three they come back and tell us that we were right that it was more than just a kiss and that they had sex.

People in emotional affairs (EA) usually deny being in one until it crosses over to a physical affair (PA). Then they admit to the EA so as to cover up the PA. The fact that the OM offered to be her donor if you as her husband did not want to, means that if you did not want to raise this child with her, he was willing to; full translation, she talked to him about leaving you for him and he agreed.

You should not let her blame shift any of this to your actions or inaction. As a good person you are willing to try to do do better and are willing to accept blame. As a cheater she is following standard cheater script in using your goodness against you to blame shift. Following the cheaters script, the cheater set themselves up as the judge and jury and then hold you to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to. You cannot win this game because they make the rules and they do not want you to win. Blame shifting requires that you be wrong so that she does not have to accept full responsibility for her cheating. Stop buying into this bull. She is 100% responsible for her cheating, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. And do not accept menopause or bipolar or any other false excuse for her cheating. Cheating is fun. Studies show that most people want to cheat but do not cheat because of respect for their spouse and fear of getting caught. She wanted to cheat for the excitement of it all. Man up and make her take full and total responsibility for her action. The fact that she tracked him down and was the pursuer makes her even more at fault.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*About three weeks ago I caught my wife talking to a past boyfriend.

She told me that she was sorry and would never contact this man again.

I had agreed to go to the IVF clinic with her and do this. But the very next day I caught her talking to this guy.*

I want to be sure about what is going on with your wife: Did you catch her talking to the other man AFTER she had said she was sorry and would never contact this man again?


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

TRy said:


> You caught her or she was going to continue with her affair with this other man (OM) behind your back. Cheaters by definition are deceitful. When caught they always trickle truth. The more they show remorse, the more they lie. Their is a saying on all boards such as this that if the cheater said they kissed it means that they had sex. Read other threads on this and other boards and you will see this to be true. Phase one is for posters to tell the board that it was only just a kiss. In phase two the betrayed says that they believe their spouse that it was only just a kiss. In phase three they come back and tell us that we were right that it was more than just a kiss and that they had sex.
> 
> People in emotional affairs (EA) usually deny being in one until it crosses over to a physical affair (PA). Then they admit to the EA so as to cover up the PA. The fact that the OM offered to be her donor if you as her husband did not want to, means that if you did not want to raise this child with her, he was willing to; full translation, she talked to him about leaving you for him and he agreed.
> 
> You should not let her blame shift any of this to your actions or inaction. As a good person you are willing to try to do do better and are willing to accept blame. As a cheater she is following standard cheater script in using your goodness against you to blame shift. Following the cheaters script, the cheater set themselves up as the judge and jury and then hold you to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to. You cannot win this game because they make the rules and they do not want you to win. Blame shifting requires that you be wrong so that she does not have to accept full responsibility for her cheating. Stop buying into this bull. She is 100% responsible for her cheating, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. And do not accept menopause or bipolar or any other false excuse for her cheating. Cheating is fun. Studies show that most people want to cheat but do not cheat because of respect for their spouse and fear of getting caught. She wanted to cheat for the excitement of it all. Man up and make her take full and total responsibility for her action. The fact that she tracked him down and was the pursuer makes her even more at fault.


Excellent post, TRy. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Danielria, most of us BS's here have been trickle truthed to some degree, some more than others. I was lucky in that I managed to torpedo my wife's EM before she got a chance to meet him. Who knows what might have happened if she had............. 

I have a bad feeling though, about your wife's only kissing this guy. 

I reckon most of us here have that same bad feeling.................... I wish you the best.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

There area a lot of things in this story that don't make sense. When a story doesn't make sense, there's about a 100% chance it's a lie.

*About three weeks ago I caught my wife talking to a past boyfriend. I confronted her with this and she told me all about it. She said that she looked him up to talk about something that happened in the past.*

Did she say specifically what it was that she looked him up to talk about, or did she just leave it at that, "something that happened in the past" with no further elaboration?

*She admitted to having an emotional affair with this man. She also said that she visited with him once and that they did in fact kiss. She said that she got caught up in the moment because she told him about her desire to have a baby. He told her that he would be a donor for her if I didn't want to do it.*

She admitted to an emotional affair. Did she elaborate? What was said between her and the other man that made it an emotional affair? Did she tell him she loved him or vice versa? Did she send sexual messages to him or vice versa? How long had they been in contact before you found out? Do you have any information at all to verify your wife's story, such as the length of their contact or what was said between the two?

So, they had been exchanging "I love you's" and/or sexual messages, then they met up, he agreed to father her love child, and they sealed the deal with a kiss? Where did they meet? I am assuming they are no longer teenagers, if they were in love with each other or exchanging sexual messages, why would they stop with just a kiss? It's theoretically possible, but not believable.

If you look at the other threads on this forum, you will find that when a wife is caught and tells her husband they only met once and they only shared one kiss, that usually it ends up that they met 10 times and had sex every time.

Would your wife agree to submit to a polygraph test to verify the key points of her story?

*She told me that she was sorry and would never contact this man again. She has cried on multiple occasions telling me that she is sorry. I stayed in bed for about three days because I could not believe what had happened. I know that she feels guilty about it and I really didn't think that she realized how much I love her. She knows this now and wants to make it work. 

I don't have access to the phone records. I have thought about asking for them, but I don't want her to get mad. My mom and mother-in-law both told me that my wife told them that she still loves me very much.*

Let me get this straight: She is so sorry about the affair that she keeps crying about how sorry she is that she hurt you, but she will get mad at you and leave you if you ask to see the phone records to verify her story? She cheated on you, the only reason you know is that you caught her, she didn't come clean on her own, her story isn't all that believable, but she will be mad if you don't trust her by buying her story hook, line, and sinker? It's OK that she cheated on you, but you better not ask to see those phone records? Is that what you're telling us? Do you know how crazy that sounds?

*The problem is that my wife is going through menopause. She had approached me several months ago wanting to try and have a baby. My wife has never been able to have a child of her own and would require using an egg donor and IVF (me and another female's egg). Well, I feel that some of this is my fault because I would not listen to her. She shut me out and went looking for someone that would listen to her. She claims that nothing sexual happened between her and this guy, but I can’t get this thought out of my head. How do I know for sure if she’s telling me the truth?*

You can never know for sure if she had sex with this guy. You can ask her to take a polygraph. She probably still is in contact with him and she probably still is having sex with him. You have not done much to stop it. Get yourself a couple of voice-activated recorders and place one in her car and the other in a place in your house where she is likely to contact him?

Does she keep her phone with her at all times and guard it with her life?

*I have never had to doubt this woman in the almost 20 years that we have been married. *

Your story is not in any way unique. If you go back to the beginning of 2012 and look at the threads in this section of the forum, you will find a couple of dozen stories just like yours - married 20 years, multiple kids, can't believe wife would do this type of thing, she says it was only one time and it was only a kiss, etc. I don't remember a single story on this forum where that turned out to be the truth.

*Is there anyone out there that can help me get past this? I had agreed to go to the IVF clinic with her and do this. But the very next day I caught her talking to this guy.*

So, what was it, about a week before you caught her again? She did not confess the second time either, you had to catch her. What was she talking about this time, another thing that happened in the past? Or is she keeping you in the dark about the content of their communications?

*I have not been an easy person to live with and we have not had time to spend with one another because of me being in school and her working too much. I love this woman with all my heart! In fact, I have never loved any woman like I do her. We have two kids that we adopted and I don’t want to lose my family. Still, the thought of her having an emotional affair is bad enough, and the idea of her having had sex with this guy is still in my head. I can’t sleep at night and I have lost 12 lbs in the past two weeks because I can’t even eat. Can anyone offer me some help? I feel like a ping pong ball and the match has no end. *

That feeling you have is your "gut" telling you that your wife is full of bull. You know her story doesn't add up or make a bit of sense - a four-year-old wouldn't believe the story she's telling you. You WANT her story to be true, but that does not actually make it true. It is a lie.

Cheaters lie. That is the nature of cheating - hiding and lying and deception. Going forward, assume all of her words are lies. Believe only her actions.

*If I leave, I will lose her and my family. If I stay, then I am going to have to live with the thought that she might have had sex with this guy. I have never had to worry about her in the past. I know that she loves me and I know that I love her. Well, I hope that someone can be of some sort of help to me! Thanks! *

You are afraid of losing your family. Not so afraid that you will take off some time from work or school, though. You ARE losing your wife and your family. She is NOT ending contact with the other man. Don't be too busy to save your marriage.

In order to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it. You cannot accept her continuing her affair with the other man and just wish it to end. It will end on its own eventually, but that might be three years from now. It you want her affair to end, you are going to have to set boundaries for your wife and then enforce them.

*She said that my attitude and the fact that I wouldn't listen to her hurt her a lot.*

She feels justified that she cheated on you. She feels she can keep cheating until she gets over her hurt. She wanted to set the record straight with both of your families, YOU are the reason for the problems, SHE is just an innocent victim and her cheating on you is completely understandable. DO NOT buy into this nonsense. She could have let you know how serious the situation was to her. Her cheating is not justified.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

danielria said:


> No, I don't have access to the phone records. I have thought about asking for them, but I don't want her to get mad.


So, you have confirmation that your wife cheated on you, both emotionally and at least a measure of physically (just a kiss... yeah), and you're afraid she get mad? Seriously dude... What the hell... At this moment she has no right to get mad over nothing. She has the right to pack up and leave if she doesn't like it. You call the shots and make her dance. If she is unwilling, well, what does that tell you?



> My mom and mother-in-law both told me that my wife told them that she still loves me very much.


She loves you very much? Because getting it on with another dude is the ultimate proof of love right? How does your mother side with her on this? FFS... What the heck... 

How do they know she loves you? Because she told them perhaps while crying a bit? 



> She said that my attitude and the fact that I wouldn't listen to her hurt her a lot.


Oh, YOU hurt HER by not listening? :rofl:
You're surrounded by weird females man... 



> She is a good woman, but this still hurts like hell.


She is a good woman? Alright. How about a good wife. Is she a good wife? 

I'm sorry but your thread is the test case of a guy who has lost all sense of self worth and pride. You get cheated on and your main concerns is that you may be guilty too and you are hurting her and she may be mad now if you act like a hurt husband. Try to put yourself in the third person perspective here. Read what you wrote pretending it to be from a guy you don't know. Can you sense the WEAKNESS put in every sentence in that text?



> I had agreed to go to the IVF clinic with her and do this. But the very next day I caught her talking to this guy.


Let me be aggressively honest here. You do this, she gets your baby, and if this is going the way i think it is she will end up divorcing you and you'll have to pay for this kid (that you may end up seeing at weekends) for 18 years. This even if she gets with the other guy. So basically you'll partially be paying for their lifestyle. How great is that? How can you seriously consider getting this woman pregnant at this moment?


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