# Am I in for a lifetime of resentment?



## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

I’m in a no-win situation here and don’t expect anyone to have a solution but maybe there are some people with advice or similar experiences they could share. Me and my wife met in college and married young 7 years ago. I was young (22) and she was even younger (20). I know that is really young to get married but we had been dating since our first year of college and were already living together and were in love so we figured we might as well be married. Our bigger mistake was talking about the future in pretty vague terms. She certainly did ask if I wanted kids and I said “yes of course” because I was sure I would have the desire to later on like I thought every guy did but it was hard to even fathom at the moment being so young and still in college. We didn’t discuss a timeframe AT ALL before marriage which I think was certainly our biggest mistake. Two years into the marriage I had graduated with a business degree and was getting my foot into the door of my new career, enjoying making money for the first time and our life together and she was getting close to graduating and started asking about when I wanted to have kids. I still didn’t feel any more desire than when I was in college and said I definitely wanted to wait a while and she agreed. Another three years passed she had been bringing up the kids issue every so often with me always saying “definitely not ready for that yet” until I finally spent a lot of time reflecting on the issue, talking to friends and family with and without kids, reading articles, weighing the pros and cons of having kids enter into our life and realizing that I loved living this childfree life and I was beginning to doubt if I would ever want to give it up and doubting that I would be a good father anyways since I grew up without a dad and didn’t have any kind of example to guide me. I worked up the courage to tell my wife that I wasn’t sure if I ever wanted children and she took it extremely hard. It led to months of conflict that ended in us separating and her moving out. 

During that time we missed each other so much that I began visiting her at her apartment almost every night and she asked to move back in with me after 3 months and I relented without us actually resolving this issue (another big mistake). Within a year the issue of course came up again and we recently decided to try therapy together. The therapist basically told my wife that she was in a difficult situation and if she wanted to stay with me than she would have to do it knowing that we may never have children because I made it clear that I wasn’t sure if I would ever want them. She said she wasn’t sure what she would decide but would probably choose me because she couldn’t imagine life without me.

That leads us to today. Some days she tells me she thinks she will be okay not having kids but on days when she has gotten together with friends that have had kids or are pregnant, she comes home and cries and it breaks my heart. Some days she seems really happy and others she seems really depressed and wants to show me baby pictures and tell me what a great father I would be and then gets upset when I don’t show enthusiasm. It’s really hard not knowing whether I will find the cheerful wife or the depressed wife when I get home from work, it really depends on if she was around people with children that day. I’m afraid that even though she is choosing me she is going to resent me forever for not giving her a kid but I’m not willing to bring an unwanted child into the world. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but not if she will resent me forever and I have to feel guilty for the rest of my life that I took her dream of kids away. She is only 27 and I can only imagine how much worse this could get when she’s in her 30s. It seems like she should be the one to leave because she is the one that has to make this decision and I am the one that is happy with things as they are so it makes no sense for me to leave. And she doesn’t seem willing to leave yet keeps bringing up her desire for kids all the time so I have no idea what to do. It is an impossible situation. I hope people here don’t think I’m a bad person for marrying her without telling her I didn’t want kids because I honestly didn’t know that back then. Anyone have any similar experiences or advice?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Much better to have no kids than to have unwanted kids.

This one is something only your wife can resolve. She has to decide whether to stay with you or move on. You started off saying that you were undecided, but I'm gathering that along the way, you've decided that no, you don't want any children. And that's fine. But you have to tell her that honestly, and let her leave if she needs to.

It's a tough one. The only thing I can recommend is to be scrupulously honest. Don't hold out hope for her if you know you don't ever want to give her a child.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> It seems like she should be the one to leave because she is the one that has to make this decision and I am the one that is happy with things as they are so it makes no sense for me to leave. And she doesn’t seem willing to leave yet keeps bringing up her desire for kids all the time so I have no idea what to do. It is an impossible situation.


Well I don't think you're a bad person. In a perfect world, you two would have talked this all out before getting married, and you would have known what you wanted back then, but this isn't a perfect world. You are still ever growing and changing as a person, ESPECIALLY in your 20's. Your decision is yours, and you are to be commended for being honest about it. She has that much from you.

The way I see it? This is her monkey. She needs to make the choice. Your mind is made up, and it's not likely to change... either she accepts you for who you are or she walks. That's the nitty gritty. It sucks, it hurts, but it is what it is. You aren't responsible for her resentment. She's doing that to herself. 

You probably do need to have a sit down with her and lay it all out, once and for all. Tell her how you feel, and that you can respect her feelings and would hope she respects yours. Either you live together in harmony or you split because you just cannot agree to disagree.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Thank you that is great advice from both of you. I'm glad you guys confirmed that the ball is in her court here because sometimes I feel so guilty I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. The thing is she just WILL NOT make up her mind, she has been going back and forth on this decision for months. She's said she will probably be okay not having kids and then flips back to talking about how she wants to start a family every other week but she has given no indications that she is serious about leaving.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

ThatOneGuy said:


> Thank you that is great advice from both of you. I'm glad you guys confirmed that the ball is in her court here because sometimes I feel so guilty I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. The thing is she just WILL NOT make up her mind, she has been going back and forth on this decision for months. She's said she will probably be okay not having kids and then flips back to talking about how she wants to start a family every other week but she has given no indications that she is serious about leaving.


She can go back and forth, just not take that out on you. It's her demon to fight. IF she wants you, this is what she's got. Period. I wouldn't let her get away with making you out to be some sort of monster or playing the guilt trip to get you to change your mind. This isn't a game.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Here's one thing I would like you to seriously consider and ponder for awhile. From your post, I assume you are 29 and your wife is 27. THERE IS STILL PLENTY OF TIME TO HAVE KIDS.

My best friends did not feel ready for children until they were in their 30's. Then they fired out four kids.

True, some people never want children. But let me offer you the perspective as someone who is about your mother's age (give or take a few years). Children are a sacrifice. They change the focus of a marriage. They require tons of attention. Both parents need to be good role models. The result is you want to bring decent human beings into this world who will model your sense of morality, responsibility, and love.

Easier said than done.

But I am going to say this to those who are not into kids, and I mean this. Frankly, I don't give a good cahoot who disagrees with me, because I feel this from the bottom of my heart. Until I was 31, I had NO DESIRE WHATSOEVER for children. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Then I wanted children. Ex-husband - who had one foot emotionally out the door for our entire marriage - didn't want kids. WRONG. He didn't want kids WITH ME.

I got remarried, and found out I couldn't get pregnant. Sure, I could have gone the in vitro route, but that is very expensive and doesn't always work.

I look at my friends today who used to raise he!! with me and party. Their kids are young adults. Responsible, decent people. And many of my friends are grandparents.

If I had it to do over again, heck yeah. I would have made the sacrifice. But hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it? And I cannot play Monday morning quarterback.

All I can tell you is, by the time we turn 40, most of us are really getting settled in. Children are miracles. When we die, our DNA lives on through them. 

If I had it to do all over again, I would have gone to any lengths to have at least one child. And I'm speaking as someone who has an AARP card.

Still, you may find that you are never ready. I respect that. I just know that you are married to a woman who wants children. We had a guy on here several months ago who was very bummed that his wife was so into their kids, and he missed the "good ole' days" when they were just a couple. He simply wasn't that into kids.

Maybe you are the same way. Compromising your core beliefs is wrong. Your wife compromising her core beliefs is wrong. Don't let this end in an empasse.

I had a couple of friends back in my early 30's who were to the point that the wife really wanted a baby, the husband did not. In fact, he had a vasectomy. Now THAT is making a definitive statement! They divorced, she remarried, and gave birth to a beautiful daughter - at the age of 38.

Something's gotta give. This is a huge issue. One that, IMO, cannot be negotiated. Time for a very serious sit-down discussion.


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## alwaysoverwhelmed (Apr 24, 2012)

Considering this is something that you thought out and came to a conclusion on over time, I don't see you being the bad guy in any way. It's not like you did what she's doing now (the flip-flopping). I'm definitely in agreement with every else. She needs to make up her mind without making it seem as though you're the one with the problem.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

alwaysoverwhelmed said:


> Considering this is something that you thought out and came to a conclusion on over time, I don't see you being the bad guy in any way. It's not like you did what she's doing now (the flip-flopping). I'm definitely in agreement with every else. She needs to make up her mind without making it seem as though you're the one with the problem.


I agree he is not the problem, but she is not either. He did originally say he wanted kids. That he honestly came around to a different conclusion is not wrong, but it certainly puts her in a difficult position - kids or the man she loves. I think she deserves some patience for having to make a very difficult decision.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

"The therapist basically told my wife that she was in a difficult situation and if she wanted to stay with me than she would have to do it knowing that we may never have children because I made it clear that I wasn’t sure if I would ever want them."
It seems to me that she isn't the only one who needs to make a serious decision here- either you do not want kids, or you do. The only reason she may still be with you (apart from loving you) is because you are not giving her a definate. You keep indicating to her you are not SURE if you want children. There in giving her hope that you might change your mind.
You need to sit down with her and say something along the lines of "I do not see children in our futre, at all. 100%" Maybe then she can finally make an informed decision about her future with you.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I agree he is not the problem, but she is not either. He did originally say he wanted kids. That he honestly came around to a different conclusion is not wrong, but it certainly puts her in a difficult position - kids or the man she loves. I think she deserves some patience for having to make a very difficult decision.


:iagree:

She needs a definate from him, instead of (quote) " I made it clear that I wasn’t sure if I would ever want them."
That isn't a clear decision


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Thanks for the newest responses. I'm glad to see that this forum has some great, unbiased people in it.



Tall Average Guy said:


> I agree he is not the problem, but she is not either. He did originally say he wanted kids. That he honestly came around to a different conclusion is not wrong, but it certainly puts her in a difficult position - kids or the man she loves. I think she deserves some patience for having to make a very difficult decision.


Absolutely! I don't blame her for having to make this horrible decision and wish I didn't have to put her through it but in my heart I know I don't want kids and don't know if I ever will. Like Prodigal said, I also can't say with 100% certainty that I will never want kids. There could come a time in my life where the free time, spontanaity, and extra disposable income of being childfree is not as important to me anymore but I'm in my last year of my 20s and I have yet to have any desire for children.

I will give her all the time she needs, I just hope that she doesn't choose to stay with me and then make me miserable for the next 15 years with constantly nagging me about the issue as her body tells her to make babies before it is too late followed by regret and resentment.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

ThatOneGuy said:


> I will give her all the time she needs, I just hope that she doesn't choose to stay with me and then make me miserable for the next 15 years with constantly nagging me about the issue as her body tells her to make babies before it is too late followed by regret and resentment.


I can see the tough position you are in. 
Maybe this is one of those situations where if you really love her, you might have to let her go if she has her heart set on having kids. She also needs to decide what is best for her, and you. If she wants to stay with you, she cannot then be entitled to be angry at you years down the track for what ultimatly became her choice.
I wish you the best of luck with this


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

ThatOneGuy? You've already decided. When you describe your wife's ambivalence about your child-raising decisions as "nagging", you've already decided. And that's cool. I don't have children either. But please be honest with her. You don't want to have children with her, do you?

So tell her.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Kind of sounds like it's your way or the highway. It's not a relationship that I would want to stay in, but we each make our choices.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Whew, Dear God man. I was expecting you to say you relented and had kids anyway.

It sucks, but you're in a "good" position. Relatively speaking of course. You're going to break her heart, but at least it's before kids are involved. Kids are one of those deal breakers, much like religion. There's no compromising on it.

If you don't want them, all the therapy and counseling in the world won't solve that. You two need to sit down and have honest discussions on this and it may very well mean calling it quits. Sorry there's not a happier answer, but the last thing you want to do is subject you BOTH to a life of misery by having kids just to keep the peace. There's no peace to be found unless you both are on the same page with this.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

ThatOneGuy said:


> I’m in a no-win situation here and don’t expect anyone to have a solution but maybe there are some people with advice or similar experiences they could share. Me and my wife met in college and married young 7 years ago. I was young (22) and she was even younger (20). I know that is really young to get married but we had been dating since our first year of college and were already living together and were in love so we figured we might as well be married. Our bigger mistake was talking about the future in pretty vague terms.* She certainly did ask if I wanted kids and I said “yes of course” because I was sure I would have the desire to later on like I thought every guy did *but it was hard to even fathom at the moment being so young and still in college. We didn’t discuss a timeframe AT ALL before marriage which I think was certainly our biggest mistake.


ThatOneGuy
You changed the game, not her. Together you both thought children would be part of your lives. I won't say you played bait and switch, but you did lead her on, by your indecision. She thought you both had an agreement. Then you changed your mind. That was an independent decision on your part, not a joint agreement. You see what heart break that caused both of you. Yes this may be a deal breaker for her. Yes even if she stays with you, this will always be the elephant in the room. That is what happens when life changing decisions are decided by one party. I agree with you there is no solution. She will resent that you made this decision on you own. 

By the way, we married at the same ages as you two, both leaned toward not wanting children, went for it in our mid thirties. Had a DS. Happily married 37 years.

Good luck to both of you.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ThatOneGuy said:


> I just hope that she doesn't choose to stay with me and then make me miserable for the next 15 years with constantly nagging me about the issue as her body tells her to make babies before it is too late followed by regret and resentment.


No, this is not a situation in which you can "hope." I'm sorry. This is too big for mere hoping. You have every right to how you feel, and you should not be made to feel miserable for your decision. The same goes for your wife.

Why, oh, why do people stay together when they cannot agree on fundamental issues? Sure, you love her, and I bet she loves you.

But this boils down to WHAT IS, not WHAT IF. What is: you don't want children now. You may never want children. That is fine. Your wife is starting to sound like she really feels otherwise. Nobody should martyr themselves or play victim forever to accommodate the other partner.

I know this stinks, but we all have to be true to ourselves. If she really, truly wants kids somewhere in the course of your marriage, and is starting to feel that need, then someone has to be proactive.

To do less than that is unfair to both of you.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well said, Prodigal. It's no one's fault, but it has to be faced.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I feel this was a horrendous mistake to not talk about THOROUGHLY before getting married, now she is pathetically in love with you.....AND she is facing a lifetime of pent up resentment and sacrifice if she stays.... 

I would tell her to leave you..move on.... I know that feeling of wanting children, and I would never stay with a man who didn't understand that NEED within a woman's heart, or wanted none, it was a part of MY package and many women's. This is normal. 

It was so unfair to give her hope while dating, then take it away, or say things you half meant. 

Oh the wasted years... let her loose. Find a woman who wants a child-free life.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Please don't refer to your wife wanting kids and being sad about not having them with the man she loves as "nagging". YOU came into this marriage under some form of false representation. You said yes and then changed YOUR mind. She never did. She always wanted the family. You seem to be te flip flopper here...not her. 

She is the one making the sacrifice by being with you. Do her a favor and let her go and leave. You changed your mind and in essence changed the course of her life just by simply being with you. Stop putting this all on her.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

You can't stay with her. You can't. She really wants to have children and that's not a desire that just goes away. I am finding it hard enough to come to terms with only having two children, as my husband is adamant he doesn't want any more.

It's not going to get any better. Since you are the one who doesn't want children you need to step up, be strong and let her go. If you stay together and you are the reason she doesn't get to have the children she wants I give you 0% chance of staying together long-term anyway, as the resentment will kill all the love she has for you.

Let her go. Or agree to have a baby. Anything else is cruel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tiberius (Mar 22, 2012)

OP, how about this possible scenario?

-you tell her that you do not want kids, full stop and she has to decide whether she accepts not becoming a mother ever and stays with you or moves on.

-my bet is she will move on, women have an inbuilt urge to become mothers and many do not feel fulfilled unless they have a child

-she meets someone else and has a family with him

-you move on and meet someone else. Great woman, loving relationship, but she wants a child too. What do you do? Same as before and move to the next woman?

-or maybe a child is born without you wanting it and when that child says 'daddy' and shows you unconditional love you wake up and realize what this is all about. You realize what you have lost with your wife.


Life is tough and we need to make choices. Your wife will feel worse the older she gets and I do not see your marriage surviving if she stays with you without a child.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

You need to tell your wife that you _do not _want children. 

Saying that you "may" never or "might not" ever want kids is just leading her on. She's staying because she mistakenly thinks that you haven't actually made a final decision. But you have. So tell her that. 

She hasn't done anything wrong and neither have you. There's no moral high-ground for you to occupy here, so saying it's on her to leave isn't productive. One of you needs to leave, but there is nothing to be gained by trying to wait her out and force her to be the one to do it.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

I think us guys sometime overlook how really important it is for woman to have children. As we are past that age now I can see that her not being able to have children was one of the most painful things she had to face as she aged. While watching our friends and families kids be the biggest parts of their lives.

Hindsight is 20 20.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

"Am I in for a lifetime of resentment?"

Resentment is the most damaging thing to have in a marriage. The biggest cure for resentment is forgiveness. Forgiveness is the biggest gift to give yourself, as you carry the burden if you do not forgive.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The ball is not in your wife's court. That is astonishingly bad advice.
Your wife will be in pain, and in conflict for the rest of her life if she stays with you. Yes, she may decide to stay, but she will never be complete. The biological drive is too strong. She will continue to flip flop forever. I would say without much doubt that she will grow to hate and resent you over this. She may be happy one day but women's moods and feelings change constantly. Now before you decide never to give her a child, the only thing I can say is you may have a hard time finding a woman at your age who is not focused on having a child... Food for thought, because all of us must do what-if trade offs when deciding to stick with a current marriage or not...


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Well, dayummm. Guess I'll be going against the grain a bit. Please bear with me.

Whether to have children or not is a big decision, of course. You say you don't want to bring an "unwanted" child into the world, but the truth is, you're incapable of doing so. Your child would most definitely be wanted by at least one of you. 

It's also important to recognize where each other is coming from. For some people, having a child is a HUGE validation that they're where they are "supposed to be" in their lives. Sometimes it's a way of celebrating themselves and their relationship by creating something "bigger," a legacy that they hope will leave a mark on the world and their own way of leaving a mark upon the world. I don't know what your wife hopes to achieve by having a child, but whatever it is, you'll discover it's a very deep need that is currently not being met. 

Your own desire to not have a child also involves some deep needs. Are you afraid it will hurt you financially, cost you your independence, or something else? 

The two of you need to get to the bottom of those needs and what they mean. I recommend asking yourselves, "What's important about that?" at least five levels deep: 

"What's important about having / not having a child?" 
"It's a way to make my mark on the world." "I want to keep my freedom." 

What's important about making your mark on the world? What's important to you about keeping your freedom? Then answer the "what's important about" question for these answers, and so on. As you reach the fourth of fifth level, you'll come to understand exactly what needs are suffering. You'll have an opportunity to consider if there may be other solutions, or to recognize that you have a means to help each other find a deep level of contentment. 

You said you were interested in similar stories, and I have two for you to consider. One is my own, and another is my friend's. 

My close friend wanted a child with her new husband. She had three children from her first marriage, and her new hubby, a military guy, had one that he hardly ever got to see and when he did, it often meant an unpleasant experience with his ex. 

She asked me for advice because she was thinking about ending their marriage even though she adored her husband in every other way. When I asked her what was important to her, she said that she felt she had more love to give, and that she wanted to have a baby that was a mix of him and her. 

As we got deeper into both of their reasons, I gave her my opinion, which was that she was going to sacrifice something great in her life to do more of the same thing - raising her children - when she could give them all that extra love just as easily. 

She ultimately decided to be happy without having more children, and I haven't heard her complain in the five years since. 

My own experience was when I was very young. I'd gotten pregnant while taking birth control pills. The doctor hadn't warned me that antibiotics could counteract the pill's effectiveness, and BAM! There I was, 17 and pregnant by an older man who said he wanted to have kids "someday" but who, at 27, had paid for several abortions and showed no signs of being ready anytime soon. He wanted me to have an abortion, which I refused to do. 

I let him know that he was free to leave and I wouldn't seek child support, but I also wouldn't let him come strolling back into the baby's life some years down the road, either. To his credit, he decided to stick around. We felt ready when I got pregnant with my second child, and our relationship was in bad shape when I got pregnant for the third time. Yes, the guy who didn't want children now had three of them. 

We split up, and although I have many things I wish had been different, he found himself in love with being a dad. Our children are now grown, and he has been an active and loving influence in their life for over two decades, and doesn't know what he'd do without them. 

As you said, there aren't any easy answers, but I hope you and your wife will find a happy answer because it sounds like your love for each other is genuine and enduring. It sucks to think that it could be destroyed over something like this. This may be a time you both must decide to look at what's best for the relationship instead of what's best for the individuals in it.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

This is me said:


> I think us guys sometime overlook how really important it is for woman to have children. As we are past that age now I can see that her not being able to have children was one of the most painful things she had to face as she aged. While watching our friends and families kids be the biggest parts of their lives.
> 
> Hindsight is 20 20.


This is true. At the same time he has to reconcile with himself if it's what he wants. Unfortunately, he may not want kids now but could change his mind 10 years from now. One of those things, I guess.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ThatOneGuy said:


> Thank you that is great advice from both of you. I'm glad you guys confirmed that the ball is in her court here because sometimes I feel so guilty I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. The thing is she just WILL NOT make up her mind, she has been going back and forth on this decision for months. She's said she will probably be okay not having kids and then flips back to talking about how she wants to start a family every other week but she has given no indications that she is serious about leaving.


You did do something wrong.

You let her marry you with the idea that you would "someday"

She filled in the blanks and took you at your word.

The ball "is" in her court now.

But, if I were you, I wouldn't feel much relief as a result.

I think she'll bolt.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

OP. Marriage is tough. Married with kids is tougher. You need to be true to your own needs and desires. If you are not whole heartedly behind having kids, then don't! If she continues to vacillate, let her find her happiness with someone else. Don't accept resentment and guilt for making an honest decision. This is not a negotiate kind of thing and do not accept the idea you have done anything "wrong". Given what you have written, I think you need to move on if the on again off again issue persists. 

Good luck.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

I think the answer is yes. For most women its a biological imperative to have children. I don't believe she is waffling on the idea of having children. She is waffling on the idea of losing you so she can have children with someone else.

Peace


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I feel this was a horrendous mistake to not talk about THOROUGHLY before getting married, now she is pathetically in love with you.....AND she is facing a lifetime of pent up resentment and sacrifice if she stays....
> 
> I would tell her to leave you..move on.... I know that feeling of wanting children, and I would never stay with a man who didn't understand that NEED within a woman's heart, or wanted none, it was a part of MY package and many women's. This is normal.
> 
> ...


You speak the truth. Getting married without a certainty of agreeing on children was the worst mistake I made in my life and has caused us both so much pain that hasn't ended yet. In the end I'm probably going to have to let her go, I just don't know how to do it.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Lyris said:


> You can't stay with her. You can't. She really wants to have children and that's not a desire that just goes away. I am finding it hard enough to come to terms with only having two children, as my husband is adamant he doesn't want any more.
> 
> It's not going to get any better. Since you are the one who doesn't want children you need to step up, be strong and let her go. If you stay together and you are the reason she doesn't get to have the children she wants I give you 0% chance of staying together long-term anyway, as the resentment will kill all the love she has for you.
> 
> ...


Your advice is not one that is easy to swallow but I don't doubt the truth. In my heart I know that she isn't going to shake the biological need for children if it is this strong already and will probably lead to bottomless well of resentment. I guess I'm going to have to find a way to let her go. I hope I have the strength. I'm afraid to be on my own again but the thought of her growing to hate me is worse.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Tiberius said:


> OP, how about this possible scenario?
> 
> -you tell her that you do not want kids, full stop and she has to decide whether she accepts not becoming a mother ever and stays with you or moves on.
> 
> ...


That first step you laid out is the only way I can think of to address this. I do think there will be a lot of resistance to leaving me as she has had 3 years to do it and even moved back in after a separation. I have to make it clear that if she is going to stay, she can't make me feel bad about not having children. I don't know if that is realistic though.

Believe me if this marriage ends, I will never marry another woman without being agreed on this. I've learned my lesson.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Rowan said:


> You need to tell your wife that you _do not _want children.
> 
> Saying that you "may" never or "might not" ever want kids is just leading her on. She's staying because she mistakenly thinks that you haven't actually made a final decision. But you have. So tell her that.
> 
> She hasn't done anything wrong and neither have you. There's no moral high-ground for you to occupy here, so saying it's on her to leave isn't productive. One of you needs to leave, but there is nothing to be gained by trying to wait her out and force her to be the one to do it.


I agree that I have to tell her it's a 100% certainty we won't have them because maybe this will make her decision more clear. We've honestly been waiting each other out for years and it has to stop at some point.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Make an appointment to get snipped. Anything less and she'll still hold out hope.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Hicks said:


> The ball is not in your wife's court. That is astonishingly bad advice.
> Your wife will be in pain, and in conflict for the rest of her life if she stays with you. Yes, she may decide to stay, but she will never be complete. The biological drive is too strong. She will continue to flip flop forever. I would say without much doubt that she will grow to hate and resent you over this. She may be happy one day but women's moods and feelings change constantly. Now before you decide never to give her a child, the only thing I can say is you may have a hard time finding a woman at your age who is not focused on having a child... Food for thought, because all of us must do what-if trade offs when deciding to stick with a current marriage or not...


I agree and have mostly addressed all your points in other posts but even with the scary scenario of being on my own again I don't agree that there are no women that don't want children. I think I would want to be single for quite a while anyway so I can figure out what it is I want out of life. I know it isn't to settle down and have kids. At least not anytime in the near future.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

ThatOneGuy said:


> I agree that I have to tell her it's a 100% certainty we won't have them because maybe this will make her decision more clear. We've honestly been waiting each other out for years and it has to stop at some point.


A vasectomy can do that too. Not saying its the best route to take, but it definitely makes the point. Not only that, but no chance of any trickery in the near future.

I do know someone that did this. She got the message.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

ThatOneGuy said:


> I know it isn't to settle down and have kids. At least not anytime in the near future.


See you keep saying **** like that. You're leading her on. Grow up.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Vasectomies freak me out. I read on Wikipedia that some men have been known to have chronic pain after having them. It also isn't certain that they will be reversable and if I suddenly had the urge for kids when I am like 50, I don't want to lock that door permanently. I sure wish they would get the male birth control pill invented.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

ThatOneGuy said:


> Vasectomies freak me out. I read on Wikipedia that some men have been known to have chronic pain after having them. It also isn't certain that they will be reversable and if I suddenly had the urge for kids when I am like 50, I don't want to lock that door permanently. I sure wish they would get the male birth control pill invented.


It truly sounds like you don't know WHAT you want. This is why your wife is going back and forth. You do it right along with her. The I don't want them, I may want them when I'm old has got to be unnerving to her.

You're unsure, she is very sure. This can go on for a long time, and honestly if at the end... 25 yrs down the road you firmly say NOPE don't want it, it's hard to imagine she wouldn't be pretty darn pissed at you and herself for wasting her time with you.

If you leave her you'll be doing her a favor. Save her from hating herself. This is about a lot more than just you ya know.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> See you keep saying **** like that. You're leading her on. Grow up.


I don't believe anyone's life is set in stone in their 20s and that no one has the right to change their mind about life decisions. I don't see that as a grown up point of view. I'm not telling her that I could one day change my mind though because that would be completely counterproductive. If thinking I'm 100% never going to want kids makes her decision easier than that is my story.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

ThatOneGuy said:


> Vasectomies freak me out. I read on Wikipedia that some men have been known to have chronic pain after having them. It also isn't certain that they will be reversable and if I suddenly had the urge for kids when I am like 50, I don't want to lock that door permanently. I sure wish they would get the male birth control pill invented.


I agree with WorkingOnMe. It's all about you. Isn't it? You're dragging this out. GROW UP!!! Stop causing her pain. Let her move on with her life and dreams. Do it quickly before she gets any older and can't have her dream.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Good heavens, Hicks, welcome to the 21st century. Many women don't want children, we somehow have overcome our "biological imperative".

Sheesh.

This guy seems to want to do the right thing. I think he does need to give her complete information and then let her make the decision. The idea that she is incapable of making that decision because of her ladyparts is not only ludicrous, it's offensive.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> I agree with WorkingOnMe. It's all about you. Isn't it? You're dragging this out. GROW UP!!! Stop causing her pain. Let her move on with her life and dreams. Do it quickly before she gets any older and can't have her dream.


You could learn from some of the other posters who know how to present respectful advice even when they are critical of me and have the opinion that I am wrong about certain things. Do you honestly think anyone is going to take you seriously if your posts are full of condescension? Instead of telling me to grow up how about learning to have a grown up discussion.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I don't have to agree with the other posters, that is what a public forum brings, diversity of thoughts. Take or leave what you want. You, on the other hand make my point. You can't take a view other than your own. That is what I see you did in your marriage. 
Point, rebutted, done.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Okay, ThatOne, I am back to throw my 2 cents into the pot, for what it is worth. You are in a crappy situation. I have no doubt you love your wife. You do not want to hurt her, and I do not think you sound like the world's most selfish guy.

Why?

Because the world's most selfish guy would go ahead, let his wife have a couple kids, then b!tch here, ad nauseum, about how he feels ripped off that his wife isn't solely into him any longer.

BTW, I don't know where the post is from several month's ago, but we had a guy on here in your position. He relented, and his wife had two children.

Then he was bummed that the life they once had was no more due to his wife really getting into being a mom. 

Do I blame the guy? No. He didn't want kids. Do I blame the guy for balking and giving in, with the hope that things would work out in his favor? He!! yeah.

You are sitting on the fence. Your wife is at the point I was at her age. I had a biological drive to have children. Seriously. I wanted nothing more than to hold a newborn child in my arms. I was married to a man who did not share my enthusiasm.

We divorced.

I remarried, tried to get pregnant for years and could not conceive, although I miscarried once.

So, I am speaking from the perspective of a woman whose hormones kicked in at some point and told me to go build a nest and have babies.

Yes, it sucks major, big-time that you may have to give up the woman you love. But you don't want her nagging at you. You don't want to disappoint her.

How about this? Go to a therapist; a GOOD therapist (there's a lot of junk out there) and discuss your feelings as to why you really want to wait, or not have children at all.

I'm not here to judge you. I am not going to advocate divorce-her-tomorrow. 

But I think you two need to get into some very serious discussions about this, because having children is an extremely fundamental part of marriage. Not for everyone. But it sounds like it is for your wife.

I wish you both the very best.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> I don't have to agree with the other posters, that is what a public forum brings, diversity of thoughts. Take or leave what you want. You, on the other hand make my point. You can't take a view other than your own. That is what I see you did in your marriage.
> Point, rebutted, done.


I've been taking in all of the viewpoints of three pages of people now and have agreed with many of the criticisms if you took a moment to look at the thread. But I don't take posters that try to get me riled up by being insulting seriously so you might as well give up. You're right, I can take or leave what I want. Guess who's posts I'll be leaving?


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## NeedTLC (May 2, 2012)

ThatOneGuy said:


> ...if I suddenly had the urge for kids when I am like 50...


Seriously? I find it naive for you to think you'd want to be a new parent at 50 years old.

Own your feelings. They're not right or wrong, they're simply yours.

Man up and let her go. Today.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Okay, ThatOne, I am back to throw my 2 cents into the pot, for what it is worth. You are in a crappy situation. I have no doubt you love your wife. You do not want to hurt her, and I do not think you sound like the world's most selfish guy.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


Thank you Prodigal, it's great to hear from someone who has been in reverse roles of the same situation. I have done both individual and couples therapy. I've explained my hesitation about kids with them both and they both conclude that I definitely shouldn't have kids because I don't have a desire for them. The problem is that therapists don't really tell you to divorce unless it is an extreme situation. They give vague guidance such as "you have a difficult decision to make" and "if you knew nothing was going to change in your life, are you okay with that?" Both therapists did state that the decision of whether to stay or go was my wife's responsibility to make though. Overall, therapy helped get things out into the open but didn't really lead to any conclusions.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

NeedTLC said:


> Seriously? I find it naive for you to think you'd want to be a new parent at 50 years old.
> 
> Own your feelings. They're not right or wrong, they're simply yours.
> 
> Man up and let her go. Today.


Does anyone really know what will be going through their mind decades later? If you do I consider you lucky. I definitely don't think I will want to be a parent that old but I just don't know where I will be at that point. I really just have to deal with how I feel right now I guess.


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## vickieleigh (May 24, 2012)

You are in for a lifetime of fesentment, I read your post carefully, and it was clear that when you were in college, and talked about kids, you told her you wanted them, but didn't give her a timeframe. later on, you told her you didn't want kids, and now it seems as if you are worried about who gets the house. Although you seem to be caring toward her, you seem to me to be self centered. example: why don't you want kids: you didn't have a dad, Why don't you think you would be a good dad: you didn't have a dad as an example. She was under the impression that you wanted kids when she married you, now she is constantly broken hearted because of your decision, or lack there of, and you are worrried about who should leave! If you own a home, you are wondering this for selfish reasons. You told her you wanted kids someday, so, give her the home, so she can find another man, and have a home to raise the kids you gave her the hopes of having one day.


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## vickieleigh (May 24, 2012)

I meant resentment


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

ThatOneGuy said:


> I've explained my hesitation about kids with them both and they both conclude that I definitely shouldn't have kids because I don't have a desire for them. The problem is that therapists don't really tell you to divorce unless it is an extreme situation. They give vague guidance such as "you have a difficult decision to make" and "if you knew nothing was going to change in your life, are you okay with that?" Both therapists did state that the decision of whether to stay or go was my wife's responsibility to make though. Overall, therapy helped get things out into the open but didn't really lead to any conclusions.


I hear ya, and then some. Really, I honestly do. Therapists are doing what they are hired to do, and that is to act as an impartial referee.

But you need answers. I must have lucked out, for some reason, with a therapist who gave me a set of answers from which I could choose. It wasn't a long list, but it was one from which I had to make a major life decision.

You are now 29. I do not see anything wrong with being uncertain at 29. Believe me, when I tell you I was UNCERTAIN about almost everything at 29! But your wife is getting ready. You two are not in sync.

Let's just try this, to see how it goes. How about babysitting for friends? How about you go visit friends right after the birth of their baby and hold that newborn in your arms? Hey, you may still feel squat. Then again, you may feel something else.

I am only leaning towards the side of having children, while trying my best to respect your stance, because it boils down to something that is so fundamental to all animals: the need to have our DNA live on after we are gone. We want to imbue our offspring with good qualities. We want to nuture a rebellious 15-year-old, who is driving us up the wall.

Do I think that is in all of us? Obviously, no. But, in hindsight from where I am now in life, I have to be honest: most of us - even the "rebels" who held the line on NO KIDS - we look back with that hint of doubt ...

I cannot go back and rewrite history. I wish I had my 25-year-old body with my 50-something wisdom. 

Let me give you a little postscript to this diatribe. My best friend found herself unmarried and pregnant at 31. She did not want to marry the baby's father. She had the child. She married a guy who had been in love with her since grad school. And it only took her about 15 years to realize her best friend was going to be her best husband.

That potentially-aborted child? He is a Captain in the Army today, happily married, and a man who would not give it a second thought to lay down his life for his country. Heck, raising kids stinks (literally - dirty diapers!), takes tons of patience, and requires one sacrifice their own desires and the original dynamic of their marriage.

How about you give this more thought? Quit arguing here. Come back when you have talked to your friends with kids. It isn't a little slice of heaven. But down the road ... yeah, you can have a great conversation with your 20-something son or daughter and laugh with them while sharing a beer.

Just something to consider ...


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## vickieleigh (May 24, 2012)

And I went back and read the other posts, your just scared, I can see that you are a caring person. Noone can see into the future. And to be a good father does not take that much, you and your wife both have an education, so financially you should be ok, thats the hardest part. The rest is just love them, and raise them to be good people. you sure you don't want kids,,,,EVER??


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

We make decisions every day without knowing the future, without knowing how we'll feel later down the road. We make the decisions and then we deal with them.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Stop with the idea that it is your wifes responsibility to leave. Again...YOU CHANGED. Not her. 

Lay it down for her, pack your bags and leave. Pay for the divorce and let her get on with her life. Don't you dare make her do the dirty work and the heavy lifting of ending the marriage because you decided you wanted to keep your disposable income all to yourself.


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

Gosh, there is just no way whatsoever to win this. This is a lose lose all around situation. Relationships no matter with whom require some form of sacrifice. That's life. If you really don't want a baby and truly love your wife you will make the selfless decision to do what is right. You know within yourself that she will not be able to live without having a child. Your wife separated from you for awhile due to this which tells me that this is very important to her. She will be angry and will not understand why you just could not relent but you'll be doing her a favor and in the end she'll realize this and thank you. Good luck


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## kidsdad (May 25, 2012)

Every once in a while our inner voice tells us what to do. Yours is saying no kids. Unlike some people, I know that realizing your inability at being the best dad at this point in your life, is the most mature and selfless act you can do. Raising kids is a blessing, but any honest good parent will also tell you it is darn hard, it's hard physically, emotionally, and financially. The worst part is there is no end point. Having a baby is not about her feelings and your willingness, its about bringing a small innocent human being into this world. 
Also the 800 pound guerrilla, I know no one wants to talk about. There is also the possibility of having a child with a disability. As a father of a child with a special need, I know it is a life long commitment on my part. My daughter is only 5 months and I've already spent a total of 1 month sleeping in hospitals in 3 states, getting the proper care for her. I'm 40 now and even though its only a 11 year difference with 29. I know I would not have had the emotional maturity to be able to properly care for her, like I do now. 
Look your obviously a kind decent young man, and in a fair world since you have been so honest, the decision should be hers. Rightfully, no one can be blamed for this difficult predicament. Even though the therapist wont or can't say it. I will, you must leave. Simply put, life's not fair. Even though she may hate you, and her family and friends will despise you. I will know and you will know your leaving, because you love her so much. 
Today we believe that science can over come evolution. Unfortunately the longer she waits the higher her chances of giving birth to a child with a disability increases. As a healthcare professional who has worked in a lot of NICUs and PICUs, I have seen technology improve dramatically in the past 10-15 years. Unfortunately we hear the success stories of parents who walk out the front door, but we never hear of the parents who leave out the back door. That's because the baby must have a vent, feeding pump, oxygen machine, suction machine... The longer you wait the worse its going to be for both of you. Good luck.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

kidsdad said:


> Every once in a while our inner voice tells us what to do. Yours is saying no kids. Unlike some people, I know that realizing your inability at being the best dad at this point in your life, is the most mature and selfless act you can do. Raising kids is a blessing, but any honest good parent will also tell you it is darn hard, it's hard physically, emotionally, and financially. The worst part is there is no end point. Having a baby is not about her feelings and your willingness, its about bringing a small innocent human being into this world.
> Also the 800 pound guerrilla, I know no one wants to talk about. There is also the possibility of having a child with a disability. As a father of a child with a special need, I know it is a life long commitment on my part. My daughter is only 5 months and I've already spent a total of 1 month sleeping in hospitals in 3 states, getting the proper care for her. I'm 40 now and even though its only a 11 year difference with 29. I know I would not have had the emotional maturity to be able to properly care for her, like I do now.
> Look your obviously a kind decent young man, and in a fair world since you have been so honest, the decision should be hers. Rightfully, no one can be blamed for this difficult predicament. Even though the therapist wont or can't say it. I will, you must leave. Simply put, life's not fair. Even though she may hate you, and her family and friends will despise you. I will know and you will know your leaving, because you love her so much.
> Today we believe that science can over come evolution. Unfortunately the longer she waits the higher her chances of giving birth to a child with a disability increases. As a healthcare professional who has worked in a lot of NICUs and PICUs, I have seen technology improve dramatically in the past 10-15 years. Unfortunately we hear the success stories of parents who walk out the front door, but we never hear of the parents who leave out the back door. That's because the baby must have a vent, feeding pump, oxygen machine, suction machine... The longer you wait the worse its going to be for both of you. Good luck.


Prodigal- I can tell experience has made you very wise about this sort of thing. I actually have spent time testing myself around babies/kids although my experience around kids has been very limited my whole life. One thing you have to understand is that my grandparents only have 3 grandchildren, one from my mom, two from my aunt and zero from my uncle, who made the conscious decision to never have children, seems happy and content about his choice, and I must say I've always admired that about him! So I've NEVER been around closely related babies in my life until recently when my cousin had a baby last year and we immediately offered to babysit whenever they would like to "test the waters". Now this baby is really cute, I get that. I do like babies and think they are cute and I enjoyed watching the little guy for a night but I felt very awkward holding him and was doing it all wrong because I'd never really done it before. We have babysitted this kid a few times over the last year and I do find some pleasure in it but also am relieved that I don't have to do it every night and really didn't feel the desire for my own. I do like babies and kids but I also like that I don't have to be responsible for any if that makes sense.

Kidsdad- I just want to say that there is no one I appreciate more than a parent with a child with a disability that makes all the sacrifices it will take to give that kid a good life. I think it is the most selfless type of person their is. Thanks for your post!


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Okay, so I was inspired by many of you to have a serious discussion with my wife last night. She saw her therapist yesterday and is always in a pretty good mood after that so I figured it would be a good day to do it. I ordered dinner so it would be there when she got home and then I laid it all out on the line. I told her that we have a recurring problem in our marriage that we need to get solved if we are to make it work. I said that I 100% do not want kids and am very worried that if she stays with me and I don't give her children, she will resent me for the rest of her life. I told her if having kids is really important to her than it is best that she leave and find someone who shares that goal.

She said she knows I don't ever want kids and that I am more important to her than having kids is and she wants her life to be with me more than with anyone else with or without kids. She said that if we aren't going to have kids she would like me to be open to one day moving closer to her family (they currently live about 12 hours away) so she can get that sense of family from her own if we aren't going to start our own (a fair compromise I think) and that she would like to live a life of adventure, where we spend that time and money traveling the world and expanding our social network. 

I kept going back to the fact that she had seemed especially depressed about her friends with kids recently and my fear of her being resentful. She said that she had good days and bad days and agreed that since her decision was to stay with me that she was going to work on not making me feel bad. 

She couldn't promise that she wasn't going to feel any resentment about it but promised to let me know if it became a problem that was going to hurt our marriage.

It was a good conversation. Did it make me 100% confident that our problems are resolved? Of course not. I am going to be watching her closely and every time she starts to make me feel guilty again I'm going to bring up this conversation and remind her that she has my support to leave if the desire to start a family becomes more important to her. If I see resentment building then I will do what I have to do but for now I feel like I have sent the clearest message I can about where we stand so we'll have to see how it goes.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

ThatOneGuy -- Yay! that sounds very good, and very promising. Do keep touching base with her, not in a "but you said!" way, but in a touching base kind of way, every year or so -- this is the kind of thing that can wax or wane with time.

Good luck to you both!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm glad you were able to talk about this and yes, you need to keep this conversation going so that you both stay on the same page. 

I wish you luck as well.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

Well bully for you...all it does is sound like you are still putting all the pressure on her. Leaving the ball in her court...making her leave if she can't get over it. Talk about passive aggressive. 

Newsflash, you solved nothing!!!


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

lamaga and a bit much- Thank you! I'm sure we still have a rocky road ahead of us but at least we are communicating better.

lisab0105- I get the feeling you have been burned badly by a man in your past to make you so angry? I don't think that anything I could do would please you.


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## lisab0105 (Oct 26, 2011)

lol...it is always the woman's problem with you isn't it???

You don't have to please me...just do right by your wife and stop being passive aggressive. 

You leave. Not her!


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

lisab0105 said:


> lol...it is always the woman's problem with you isn't it???
> 
> You don't have to please me...just do right by your wife and stop being passive aggressive.
> 
> You leave. Not her!


Yeah it's easy to tell someone else to throw their 7 year marriage away from your keyboard. Divorce is a last resort for me as it should be. And please look up the definition of passive-aggressive before you throw that term around so loosely.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I think you've done as much as you can. Maybe a bit less emphasis on her 'making' you feel bad with her feelings would be good. You've said that a few times and I think if you could look at it as her coming to terms with her own grief and loss, not that she is somehow deliberately feeling sad to manipulate you into changing your mind, that would be helpful.

To be frank, I don't really give you as a couple a great chance of success. As you said in your first post, she is only 27, and these feelings will only intensify during her 30s. It might be a good idea for you to look up some infertility blogs (there are 1000s) and read about the intense pain and longing for children women who want them and can't have them feel. Your wife will be dealing with those feelings and it won't be her body stopping her, or yours through no fault of your own, it will be your choice.

I think it would take almost superhuman powers of empathy and understanding for her not to grow increasingly resentful, all the while still loving you. I actually have a friend in your wife's exact situation, and it is tearing her apart. She is 38, so her time to find so someone else to have children with is running out. And it is more complicated than that because she doesn't just want children, she wants children *with her husband*, the love of her life. 

You're really in a no-win situation here. I don't think it's fair to expect you to break up with your wife; you've laid it all out for her and she's a grown woman who needs to take responsibility for her own life. But I think she is overestimating her ability to get over wanting children. It actually breaks my heart to read about your conversation where it sounds like she is trying so hard to make plans for a life without children. I can read so much love and hope between the lines, I feel sad for both of you.

I wish you both all the best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm glad you guys have come to a temporary agreement. I don't really have anything to add except this: Babysitting is not even remotely going to let you experience the kind of bond that comes with holding your *own* child in your arms and being the whole world to that tiny little person. 

If you really want to "test the waters" and give yourself a fair shot at understanding what her desire really is all about, may I recommend becoming a foster parent for a year or two?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

OP, read this

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family-parenting-forums/46770-will-wanting-child-ever-stop.html

This is very similar post where a woman agreed not to have a baby, and now at age 35 hates her husband while admitting she doesn't even want a baby.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

ThatOneGuy,

Oh, wow, I have to admit that when I married, so many of my thoughts conerning children were just like yours. I'm going to try to avoid turning this response into a discussion of how your feelings may change if you actually had children, but I do think your post almost begs the question of whether you should have another thread asking men in your situation how they rationalized, coped or possibly changed their mind. In other words, did you arrive at your decision regarding children using sound reasoning? I mean this with all respect. A couple of the things you list as reasons for not wanting to have children only suggest to me that you would be a great father. Other examples you cite might not really be comparing apples to apples.

You see, since you mention not having a father, my own experience with father figures, what little their was, was absolutely horrible. I did have a grandmother who I lived with for a while who made sure that I sat at the feet of respected elders in her tribe (although I am only half indian). But it was really the absence of father figures that made me really think about fathering, and make it more deliberate than most men I knew. 

My wife knew of my reluctance, but in my case, I told her that I would be open to it. Then, we found out that she could not have children, or so we thought. I felt releaved ... for a while (see below). A year later, she got pregnant without even trying the fertility options suggested. Then, we had another child. Then, snip, snip for me.

For me, even though holding someone else's critter only proved that this fatherhood thing was highly overrated, my daughter began to slowly transform my heart. That said, you have a really good head on your shoulders, it appears, and your own decision process is sound. I just think that some of the assumptions you made in arriving at your decision might be biased by not having children. And some of the things you've done to "try out" the idea, like babysitting, aren't really even very close to how you would slowly change over time if that child was your own. It may be worth looking at this decision process with a different, balanced set of assumptions. 

One of the things that made me realize that my own assumptions were possibly flawed was through having to care for a young neice for several months. She was past the toddler stage, and my sister needed someone to care for her for a few months. It was the day she left that I made my own decision. For the first time in my life, I understood my wife's desire to have children, and how it isn't this biological mumbo-jumbo that others are proposing. My neice left us as a child who could now smile, instead of fearing the chaos in her life. My wife wanted something beautiful in her life, something to love, shape, nurture, and leave a legacy, and answered a question in her mind as to whether we even have purpose.

As you continue to convey your thoughts and feelings about children with honesty to your wife, that doesn't mean that you can't be secretly re-assessing the decision making process itself.


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

Lyris- Thanks, you're right about not emphasizing her making me feel bad about it. I definitely don't think she makes me feel bad as a manipulation tactic but I think she also wants me to know how much it hurts her so that I might be pursuaded to change my mind. However, since that conversation last week she has been cheerful and hasn't brought the issue up once so we'll see.

KathyBatesel- Fostering is an interesting thought and one I have considered. What I fear is that she would probably get so attached to the kid that she would refuse to give them back even if I don't want to be a permanent father and we would end up in a situation where we might as well have had a baby.

Hicks- I read the thread. I can only hope that doesn't become us. I couldn't stay with a woman that hated me and started fights just fight anyways though so I'm sure it would be over way before she turned 35.

Halien and Angel5112- I know a lot of men change their mind about fatherhood but I have serious concerns about being a father. Growing up a single child without a dad and a mom who had to work a lot, I spent a lot of time alone growing up and when I was old enough to not need a babysitter anymore I spent most of my time outside school alone with my own solitary hobbies. My mom's work moved her around a lot and I ended up having less and less friends in each new place we went. I am not anti-social or anything but I really enjoy being by myself in my free time and would sadly rather be by myself than say, going to a family get together. I certainly make an effort to spend plenty of time with my wife but I feel like having more that her to divide my time with would be a struggle for me and that I might end up neglecting and avoiding my children if I had them.


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## firebelly (May 24, 2012)

gr8m8 said:


> "The therapist basically told my wife that she was in a difficult situation and if she wanted to stay with me than she would have to do it knowing that we may never have children because I made it clear that I wasn’t sure if I would ever want them."
> It seems to me that she isn't the only one who needs to make a serious decision here- either you do not want kids, or you do. The only reason she may still be with you (apart from loving you) is because you are not giving her a definate. You keep indicating to her you are not SURE if you want children. There in giving her hope that you might change your mind.
> You need to sit down with her and say something along the lines of "I do not see children in our futre, at all. 100%" Maybe then she can finally make an informed decision about her future with you.


Yeah - we went into therapy with my husband saying he "wasn't sure" if he wanted to stay if he and I couldn't have a child. I had hope until he said "I"m sure I want a biological child and I don't want to stay with you if we can't have one." Game over.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

You are not a bad guy. Some women need mother hood. Whether you meant to or not you put her between a rock and a hard place. She can't imagine her life without you but she has to give up an instinct to be with you. I can honestly say even though it may not be right, I as a woman would probably resent you for making me give up a part of myself.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

ThatOneGuy said:


> I’m in a no-win situation here and don’t expect anyone to have a solution but maybe there are some people with advice or similar experiences they could share. Me and my wife met in college and married young 7 years ago. I was young (22) and she was even younger (20). I know that is really young to get married but we had been dating since our first year of college and were already living together and were in love so we figured we might as well be married. Our bigger mistake was talking about the future in pretty vague terms. She certainly did ask if I wanted kids and I said “yes of course” because I was sure I would have the desire to later on like I thought every guy did but it was hard to even fathom at the moment being so young and still in college. We didn’t discuss a timeframe AT ALL before marriage which I think was certainly our biggest mistake. Two years into the marriage I had graduated with a business degree and was getting my foot into the door of my new career, enjoying making money for the first time and our life together and she was getting close to graduating and started asking about when I wanted to have kids. I still didn’t feel any more desire than when I was in college and said I definitely wanted to wait a while and she agreed. Another three years passed she had been bringing up the kids issue every so often with me always saying “definitely not ready for that yet” until I finally spent a lot of time reflecting on the issue, talking to friends and family with and without kids, reading articles, weighing the pros and cons of having kids enter into our life and realizing that I loved living this childfree life and I was beginning to doubt if I would ever want to give it up and doubting that I would be a good father anyways since I grew up without a dad and didn’t have any kind of example to guide me. I worked up the courage to tell my wife that I wasn’t sure if I ever wanted children and she took it extremely hard. It led to months of conflict that ended in us separating and her moving out.
> 
> During that time we missed each other so much that I began visiting her at her apartment almost every night and she asked to move back in with me after 3 months and I relented without us actually resolving this issue (another big mistake). Within a year the issue of course came up again and we recently decided to try therapy together. The therapist basically told my wife that she was in a difficult situation and if she wanted to stay with me than she would have to do it knowing that we may never have children because I made it clear that I wasn’t sure if I would ever want them. She said she wasn’t sure what she would decide but would probably choose me because she couldn’t imagine life without me.
> 
> That leads us to today. Some days she tells me she thinks she will be okay not having kids but on days when she has gotten together with friends that have had kids or are pregnant, she comes home and cries and it breaks my heart. Some days she seems really happy and others she seems really depressed and wants to show me baby pictures and tell me what a great father I would be and then gets upset when I don’t show enthusiasm. It’s really hard not knowing whether I will find the cheerful wife or the depressed wife when I get home from work, it really depends on if she was around people with children that day. I’m afraid that even though she is choosing me she is going to resent me forever for not giving her a kid but I’m not willing to bring an unwanted child into the world. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but not if she will resent me forever and I have to feel guilty for the rest of my life that I took her dream of kids away. She is only 27 and I can only imagine how much worse this could get when she’s in her 30s. It seems like she should be the one to leave because she is the one that has to make this decision and I am the one that is happy with things as they are so it makes no sense for me to leave. And she doesn’t seem willing to leave yet keeps bringing up her desire for kids all the time so I have no idea what to do. It is an impossible situation. I hope people here don’t think I’m a bad person for marrying her without telling her I didn’t want kids because I honestly didn’t know that back then. Anyone have any similar experiences or advice?


THIS!!! Was my life... DONT...DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I MADE!!!!

GET OUT AND STAY OUT!!! OR...she may do what my...wife...did. Go off her pill and get pregnant on purpose and then expect you to roll over and accept it...

I even laid out the condition before we got married.. I told her children is a 100% deal breaker.. If she ever wanted kids, then she is with the wrong person..She agreed after weeks of thinking about it and we lived for 4 years without children, yet she still always asked about kids.. I reassured her everytime that if she ever wants kids, then she needs to leave now because my opinion is NOT changing..

every appointment I made to get snipped, she'd beg me not too and I would cave...

Well...she got pregnant on purpose and now she's gone,pregnant, lost her job and living with her parents...and I'M in for a life of hell and child support payments and a family of people looking to get even at me.. 

If you are both not in 100% total lockstep agreement on this issue, your going to have a bad time..


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

If this is your decision, get a vasectomy. Geek down's story is scary


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## ThatOneGuy (May 23, 2012)

geek down said:


> THIS!!! Was my life... DONT...DONT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I MADE!!!!
> 
> GET OUT AND STAY OUT!!! OR...she may do what my...wife...did. Go off her pill and get pregnant on purpose and then expect you to roll over and accept it...
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your story and it is indeed a scary thought. I know I can’t be 100% sure but I’ve never known my wife to lie to me about anything and sometimes I’ve even thought she was too honest and open about everything. In my paranoia about the situation you’ve described I’ve even told her that I couldn’t be with a woman who betrayed me in that way (indirectly saying I’d have to leave if she tried to trap me). The one thing that brings me a bit of security is that I know she is scared of being a single mom and that she knows if she did that she would be messing her own life up more than she would mine. I would owe child support of course but I saw my own mother go through single motherhood and it seemed really hard for her even though I was a really good kid. I don’t wish it on anyone.

Just curious, why does the family feel the need to get even with you when you are paying your child support? What exactly do they do to you? Do you have any contact with the kid?


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