# My wife never told me about



## AngryTony

My wife and I got married a little over a year ago. We had a bit of a whirlwind romance but we both wanted to find the right person so when we met and instantly clicked, we realized pretty quickly that we were the ones for each other.

Now, I’m not so sure.

I was never a player and have only had three long term relationships before I met Becky. Becky, on the other hand, didn’t want to give me details of her past but did say that her total was higher than mine. I sometimes wondered if she was a party girl in the past but whenever I wanted to discuss things, she would change the topic.

Anyway, we got married and I was relieved to find out that our married life was good. She’s friends with a girl, “Sarah.” Sarah and her husband “Brad” are our neighbors. We get along well and we’re often at each other’s homes for parties and get-togethers.

Last week we were at Sarah and Brad’s at a party with a bunch of their friends. At one point I was having an umpteenth beer with a guy who was on his umpteenth beer when he said to me something along the lines of “you must be one hell of a confident dude.” When I asked why, he said, “well given Becky and Brad’s history.” I was blindsided but didn’t want to let on that Becky never told me. He added that Brad was one of his best friends and he knew all about his exploits with Becky “in the back door.” He added, “but hey you know all this and Becky is probably all sorts of crazy with you.” I didn’t know what to say so I probably laughed and went to get another beer.

In fact, Becky had never told me about her having any kind of relationship with Brad. I’ve really been stewing about this all week but don’t know how to proceed. I can’t believe our neighbor has had sex with Becky. To add injury to insult, Becky has never done anal with me even though I’ve wanted to and if Brad’s buddy is not lying she did it with Brad a lot.

What’s the best way to handle this situation? I’m angry, I’m confused, I’m embarrassed, I’m having negative thoughts.


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## Entropy3000

AngryTony said:


> My wife and I got married a little over a year ago. We had a bit of a whirlwind romance but we both wanted to find the right person so when we met and instantly clicked, we realized pretty quickly that we were the ones for each other.
> 
> Now, I’m not so sure.
> 
> I was never a player and have only had three long term relationships before I met Becky. Becky, on the other hand, didn’t want to give me details of her past but did say that her total was higher than mine. I sometimes wondered if she was a party girl in the past but whenever I wanted to discuss things, she would change the topic.*
> STOP*
> 
> Anyway, we got married
> 
> *I have not read the rest but it was incumbent on you to get the answers you needed BEFORE marriage on this*
> 
> and I was relieved to find out that our married life was good. She’s friends with a girl, “Sarah.” Sarah and her husband “Brad” are our neighbors. We get along well and we’re often at each other’s homes for parties and get-togethers.
> 
> Last week we were at Sarah and Brad’s at a party with a bunch of their friends. At one point I was having an umpteenth beer with a guy who was on his umpteenth beer when he said to me something along the lines of “you must be one hell of a confident dude.” When I asked why, he said, “well given Becky and Brad’s history.” I was blindsided but didn’t want to let on that Becky never told me. He added that Brad was one of his best friends and he knew all about his exploits with Becky “in the back door.” He added, “but hey you know all this and Becky is probably all sorts of crazy with you.” I didn’t know what to say so I probably laughed and went to get another beer.
> 
> In fact, Becky had never told me about her having any kind of relationship with Brad. I’ve really been stewing about this all week but don’t know how to proceed. I can’t believe our neighbor has had sex with Becky. To add injury to insult, Becky has never done anal with me even though I’ve wanted to and if Brad’s buddy is not lying she did it with Brad a lot.
> 
> What’s the best way to handle this situation? I’m angry, I’m confused, I’m embarrassed, I’m having negative thoughts.


Get into a time machine ....

This is hard to believe. And you know this same discussion has occured on TAM forever and pops up every couple of weeks.

So all I can say is that you messed up in not finding out about this before you married. But the biggest issue I see is that your wife lied to you by omission in not telling you about Brad. 

Now you will be inundated with post after post which says you have no right to know about her past or care. Of course you do. 

But what are you going to do about this relationship. Move? Yeah, that is what I would do. I would move and then as part of the move I would need to find out the odds of moving next door to another one of her guys. While you should have asked before marriage I suggest you guys become transparent and not let life trickle truth you any more. Then when you know, you can decide if it matters.

Good luck.


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## WorkingOnMe

#1, never trust a man named Brad. Seriously.

#2, it's time to confront the wife. Top of my list would be why she didn't tell you about the prior relationship. Next on my list would by why she settled for you, as she was obviously more into Brad if she was giving up the ass for him and not you. For the record, that would be a deal breaker for me. The marriage is young enough that without evening the score, I'd be gone. Obviously not everyone is like that....but I just can't play second fiddle.


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## Maneo

I'd ask Becky what the guy was talking about concerning her and Brad. And I would not let her change the subject.


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## Caribbean Man

You need to have "that talk" with Becky.
It's a bit late, but not too late.

Gentlemen!
The past always comes back to haunt you.
These things are better discussed_ " antes de "_, ie, before saying " I do."

Also that fraternising between Becky and he ex boyfriend Brad, needs to stop.


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## Cosmos

I'm afraid, OP, the time for finding out about your W's sexual history was before you got married, but me reminding you of this doesn't help your present situation...

I think at this stage the only thing you can do is to have a serious talk with your W about what the guy at the party told you, and how humiliated it made you feel. IMO, it was completely wrong of your W to take you into the company of someone she'd had wild sex with, and you (apparently) were the only person who didn't know about it.

Your W cannot undo her past, and you cannot undo the fact that you married her without insisting on knowing about something that was important to you. 

If you want your marriage to survive you're both going to have to find a way to move beyond this and, IMO, the only way to do that is by her being _completely honest_ with you. She also needs to realize that she cannot expect you to socialize with men she's got a history with...


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## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> You need to have "that talk" with Becky.
> It's a bit late, but not too late.
> 
> Gentlemen!
> The past always comes back to haunt you.
> These things are better discussed_ " antes de "_, ie, before saying " I do."
> 
> Also that fraternising between Becky and he ex boyfriend Brad, needs to stop.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000

Cosmos said:


> I'm afraid, OP, the time for finding out about your W's sexual history was before you got married, but me telling you this doesn't help your present situation...
> 
> I think at this stage the only thing you can do is to have a serious talk with your W about what the guy at the party told you, and how humiliated it made you feel. IMO, it was completely wrong of your W to take you into the company of someone she'd had wild sex with, and you (apparently) were the only person who didn't know about it.
> 
> Your W cannot undo her past, and you cannot undo the fact that you married her without insisting on knowing about something that was important to you.
> 
> If you want your marriage to survive you're both going to have to find a way to move beyond this and, IMO, the only way to do that is by her being _completely honest_ with you. She also needs to realize that she cannot expect you to socialize with men she's got a history with...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## WorkingOnMe

I just have to ask, because this seems bizarre to me, has anyone here ever just walked up to a stranger at a party and basically called his wife a slvt to his face? Even getting so specific as to mention how many times she did anal with the host of the party? I mean really, I don't care how many beers you've had, that's going to get your azz kicked. 

This scenario just seems way out there to me. Not that it's not an interesting question. It's still a deal breaker for me, and if I didn't dump my new wife I can guarantee that I'd be getting what she gave to him and that party would have been the last time she talked to him. But the scenario as described seems unlikely. If it happened, I have to say I question your judgement in the crowd that you hang out with.


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## richie33

What a douche that guy was to be talking about your wife like that also.
Your wife has some explaining to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos

Yes, I'd like to know what motive the guy at the party had, too. After all, that sort of thing doesn't normally just pop up in polite conversation, does it?


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## SimplyAmorous

IF this story is FOR REAL...I seriously felt SICK/ a pit in my stomach - for the husband reading it.... I agree with all the others above.


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## A++

Also, don't forget to share Becky and Brad’s history with Sarah, ASAP..


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## Entropy3000

WorkingOnMe said:


> I just have to ask, because this seems bizarre to me, has anyone here ever just walked up to a stranger at a party and basically called his wife a slvt to his face? Even getting so specific as to mention how many times she did anal with the host of the party? I mean really, I don't care how many beers you've had, that's going to get your azz kicked.
> 
> This scenario just seems way out there to me. Not that it's not an interesting question. It's still a deal breaker for me, and if I didn't dump my new wife I can guarantee that I'd be getting what she gave to him and that party would have been the last time she talked to him. But the scenario as described seems unlikely. If it happened, I have to say I question your judgement in the crowd that you hang out with.


I have seen it happen with people who live together. Not yet married.


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## AngryTony

It's not like it came out of the blue. We were sort of on topic. We'd been drinking and the guy was sort of commenting on the various women there at the party - who had nice boobs, who was with who and so on - until he brought up Becky. He wasn't being malicious he was just being a drunk idiot and unfortunately I kept listening


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## Entropy3000

Cosmos said:


> Yes, I'd like to know what motive the guy at the party had, too. After all, that sort of thing doesn't normally just pop up in polite conversation, does it?


A long long time ago in another part of my life this would not be so strange. Do not think about polite people. Think about people who were at one time into a partying life style and would shack up at each others places with FWBs and so on and might not bother being so private. I was on the periphery of that and decided that was not what I wanted out of life.

But if this is real the hubby was setup for humliation. Or this is another hotwifing thread. Idunno.


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## Caribbean Man

I've seen this type of scenario PERSONALLY and up close before, when I was single.

A group of us friends drinking and hanging out by another friend.
2.AM in the morning everybody's drunk & wasted and we all start poking fun at each other.
The host's wife's best friend then starts ribbing her husband, and he poked fun back at her.
Then she blurted out something about the size of his private that only his wife or someone who had sex with him would know.
Something the wife said she never told her.

Sensing danger., I left the party.


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## richie33

I have never been drunk enough to tell someone I just meet his wife loved it anally with the neighbor. That's a creep. 
But that's not why your here. Confront your wife. She has put you in a real bad situation.


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## Wiserforit

AngryTony said:


> My wife and I got married a little over a year ago. We had a bit of a whirlwind romance but we both wanted to find the right person so when we met and instantly clicked, we realized pretty quickly that we were the ones for each other.


The hallmark of a manipulative person is the whirlwind romance, being the perfect person that instantly clicks with you...



> Becky, on the other hand, didn’t want to give me details of her past but did say that her total was higher than mine. I sometimes wondered if she was a party girl in the past but whenever I wanted to discuss things, she would change the topic.


Except of course they actually concealed their past (ie, who they actually ARE) from you. 



> Anyway, we got married and I was relieved to find out that our married life was good. She’s friends with a girl, “Sarah.” Sarah and her husband “Brad” are our neighbors. We get along well and we’re often at each other’s homes for parties and get-togethers.
> 
> Last week we were at Sarah and Brad’s at a party with a bunch of their friends. At one point I was having an umpteenth beer with a guy who was on his umpteenth beer when he said to me something along the lines of “you must be one hell of a confident dude.” When I asked why, he said, “well given Becky and Brad’s history.” I was blindsided but didn’t want to let on that Becky never told me. He added that Brad was one of his best friends and he knew all about his exploits with Becky “in the back door.” He added, “but hey you know all this and Becky is probably all sorts of crazy with you.” I didn’t know what to say so I probably laughed and went to get another beer.
> .


How you end up being neighbors with the guy who was the anal champ with your wife is a major missing element in this story. 

One thing that bothers me is the statement that you "probably" laughed and went to get another beer. People don't guess about what happened in notable things they lived through. 

Regardless, the inability to talk to your wife about the past - this is a big red flag. So what if she changes the subject. You say "don't change the subject". 

Go ask. And not just about Brad. You don't seem to know this woman very well.


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## Faithful Wife

WOE said: "I just have to ask, because this seems bizarre to me, has anyone here ever just walked up to a stranger at a party and basically called his wife a slvt to his face?"

NOT to this degree at all, but there was a time when my husband (then boyfriend) was forced to meet some relatives of mine in a group setting where a guy I had dated before was also. The minute I went to the restroom, this guy told my husband...oh it doesn't matter what he told him, but it was crazy inappropriate. What he told him was true, but it had no bearing on my relationship with my husband...it was literally something from HIGH SCHOOL.

Thankfully, my husband could read this ex-idiot and knew he was just trying to stir up trouble, and he didn't take the bait. Now he just teases me about it constantly like "yeah, don't go to Faithful's home town, they still have billboards up with her face on them saying Home Town Sl*t!"

(Yep, that's my man's form of fun....constant sexual harassment of me).

Anyway....AngryTony...is there any chance the guy was just yanking your chain?


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## Shaggy

#1, I'd be asking Becky immediately about it, and I'd be saying to her that her telling the truth right here and now is very important, as in staying married important because if she lies to you, that is her choosing another man over you.

#2, if there has ever been any relationship at all with him, then he's out of your social circle. I'd even be suggesting moving away if they are neighbors of yours. Ex lovers have no place in a healthy marriage.

3, if true I think that the OMs wife should also be told.

4. And there house be nothing she was willing and eager to do with this other guy that she denies you. I can understand if she did something once or twice with him and hated it and stopped, but if it was an ongoing thing, then she should be trying it with you too!


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## zookeeper

While I agree that your wife should be confronted on this, I would suggest you not go in with the guns blazing. How exactly does this "friend" know the gritty details of their sex life like how much anal was going on? Unless he was in the room, his info comes from Brad. I suspect that Brad wouldn't be the first guy to exaggerate and even flat out lie about his sexcapades to his buddies. A controlled conversation will net you a lot more than being accusatory. You need to be on a fact finding mission before you blow up. You are much more likely to get the truth if you don't start off trying to shame her.

I would also love to know how exactly you ended up living next door to this guy. Did you move into her place?


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## Entropy3000

zookeeper said:


> While I agree that your wife should be confronted on this, I would suggest you not go in with the guns blazing. How exactly does this "friend" know the gritty details of their sex life like how much anal was going on? Unless he was in the room, his info comes from Brad. I suspect that Brad wouldn't be the first guy to exaggerate and even flat out lie about his sexcapades to his buddies. A controlled conversation will net you a lot more than being accusatory. You need to be on a fact finding mission before you blow up. You are much more likely to get the truth if you don't start off trying to shame her.
> 
> *I would also love to know how exactly you ended up living next door to this guy.* Did you move into her place?


Indeed


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## Machiavelli

Cosmos said:


> She also needs to realize that she cannot expect you to socialize with men she's got a history with...


In this case, "The past is not dead. It's not even past." She's living next door to the guy and I'd bet it was her idea to live there. How convenient.

Get the lube out. Tonight.


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## TRy

AngryTony said:


> In fact, Becky had never told me about her having any kind of relationship with Brad. I’ve really been stewing about this all week but don’t know how to proceed. I can’t believe our neighbor has had sex with Becky.


 Regardless about how you feel about a spouse's obligation to tell you of their past lovers, she has an obligation to tell you about past lovers that are in your social circle and that she see regularly. Even couples that are comfortable with their spouses having opposite sex friends usually have rules against staying in contact with past lovers. By keeping this a secret from you, you were not able to have the option to discuss such a rule concerning Brad. Also, the fact that she did not tell you, and that Brad also did not tell you, means that they together conspired to keep it a secret from you, thus you were played the fool where everyone else knows but you.

You need to evaluate if she really is good wife material. This indicates otherwise.


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## Catherine602

You have to talk to her. I don't think her past should be held against her or that she does not have the right to explore her sexuality. But that's me, you have a right to decide who you want to marry. 

You have a right transperency when dating. To me, deception and hiding oneself is a deal breaker. By hiding herself, she exposed you to the possibility of humiliation. She misrepresented the nature of her relationship with a men that you both socialize with. 

So now you are married to a woman you don't know. Well there are some things you know - she does not care enough about you to protect you from humiliation. She is deceptive. 

She maintained an inappropriate friendship with a past lover and did not give you a chance to chose if you wanted to socialize with her past lovers. 

Do you feel like the outsider, the only one in the dark? That's is not a position usually reserved for a special man in a woman's life. There should be a modicum of regard for your welfare, no? 

You have a lot to think about. Think in terms of where you are in her life and how it reveals what she feels for you.


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## Catherine602

Caribbean Man said:


> I've seen this type of scenario PERSONALLY and up close before, when I was single.
> 
> A group of us friends drinking and hanging out by another friend.
> 2.AM in the morning everybody's drunk & wasted and we all start poking fun at each other.
> The host's wife's best friend then starts ribbing her husband, and he poked fun back at her.
> Then she blurted out something about the size of his private that only his wife or someone who had sex with him would know.
> Something the wife said she never told her.
> 
> Sensing danger., I left the party.


Damn CM don't leave us hanging. What happened after you left??


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## happyman64

Tony

Your wife told you she was more experienced than you in her own way.

But the fact she left out her past history with Brad is deceitful.

Sit her down and let her know how you feel.

Also let her know what was said about her and how hurtful this felt.

I think you both need to clear the air so this issue does not fester.

And she also should let you know if you are walking into an Ex's house before it happens again.

HM64


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## RClawson

Sorry but this is a wound that will not heal. Been here done that. I of course knew my wife was with one other guy before we married. Just did not know he was one of my close friends until about 6 months after we were married. 

I am happy to say he did not live next door but to say it has caused issues in our marriage would be be an understatement. Find out the truth and if it matches up then move on. She is rubbing your face in it. Alpha Widow I suspect.


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## aug

The marriage is only about 1 year old. Still new.

Time to sit your wife down for a "Hail Mary" talk. Tell her she needs to tell you everything about her past now. No withholding of names or dates. 

She obviously does not mind humiliating you with her ex-lovers. She has no consideration for you. Not a good way to start a marriage.

Give her this one chance to come clean on everything about her past.

Get yourself and her tested for the full panel of STDs, Hep, HPV, etc...

Be prepared to shut this new marriage down quick. Better to divorce now than to continue a marriage this way and have your mind run wild wondering what she did and whether the next guy did anything with her. That's years of torture in your head to come.


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## Caribbean Man

Catherine602 said:


> You have to talk to her. I don't think her past should be held against her or that she does not have the right to explore her sexuality. But that's me, you have a right to decide who you want to marry.
> 
> You have a right transperency when dating. To me, deception and hiding oneself is a deal breaker. By hiding herself, she exposed you to the possibility of humiliation. She misrepresented the nature of her relationship with a men that you both socialize with.


Hi Catherine, 
Nice to see you back.
I think your analysis is a good , balanced one.
Yes, transparency is important on both sides of the fence before we get married. People should not hide themselves, or aspects of themselves that could be potentially cause the other partner embarrassment.
I think the especially applies to past financial dealings and past sexual exploits.
It should always be up to the person to decide whether or not they want to stay, and in so doing, they themselves have agreed not to bring it up or use it as a weapon against the said person later on , should they decide to stay and get married.


Anyway,
Regarding the aftermath of that " party" I mentioned earlier,
The lady's husband was a younger guy and she was a police officer. Her lady friend was also younger than her.
Undercover officers usually take home their weapons. That's why when things got " sticky" I immediately left. I didn't want to be a witness in any murder case.

But nothing violent happened. The usual confrontation , argument. They separated , and she quit her job and migrated. It hit her really hard.
That happened more than 20 years ago.
Her husband moved in with the girl and to this day,To the best of my knowledge, they are still living together....

Weird,I know!


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## MrK

This post I once read on TAM has nothing to do with Brad and Sarah, directly, but it matters her in that...

oh, heck. It doesn't matter here at all, but I love this story.

Boy/girl meet after graduating from separate colleges, starting their professional careers. They marry. Soon thereafter, girl gets invited to her 5 year graduation get-together of her sorority sisters. Guy has work obligations. Can't go. Girl is all "oh, that's SO too bad. I really wanted you to meet everyone".

Couple weeks later, his work plans change and he can go. "GREAT NEWS HONEY!!!"...

Only he could sense it wasn't great news. Her demeanor changed pretty quickly. Long story short, they go, and after the frozen daqueries are flowing for a while and tongues loosen up, it comes out that his innocent little new wifey was the BJ queen of the local chapter of the tri-delts, or whoever they were. Seems like it was her hobby, and she enjoyed it.

Guys (gals too), you have every right to know your woman's past before you marry her. Throw in lies, and it's a deal breaker. OP, if she can sit down in the same room with you and a man she'd take up the Hershey Highway, imagine what else there is.


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## Anon Pink

It was wrong of your wife to have her husband living next door to and socializing with an ex lover completely unaware. Monstrously wrong!

It was wrong of you to allow that guy to speak to you about your wife's past without calling him out. How dare he discuss your wife like that? Who the hell is he to make insinuations like that? AngryTony, you also blew it, big time!

However...

A persons past belongs to them, period. Double standard alive and well. Angry Tony, before you confront your wife, you must be able to honestly state exactly how much of her past sexual escapades are going to affect you. This is WHY women don't tell men exactly what sexual experiences lie in their past, most men don't dismiss it for being as insignificant as it is in present context.

You don't even know if what they guy insinuated is true. But if it is, put your house on the market and move. At this point you do need to know how likely it is that you are going to run into her ex lovers AND You need to be prepared to shut them down immediately should anyone be so stupid as to bring it up!

Then you can start a new thread about being threatened that your wife has had more sexual experience than you! Double standard, alive and well.


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## F-102

Add to this the knowledge that she is in close proximity to an EX...


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## Kobo

Dear Penthouse....


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## Wanting1

Anon Pink said:


> A persons past belongs to them, period. Double standard alive and well. Angry Tony, before you confront your wife, you must be able to honestly state exactly how much of her past sexual escapades are going to affect you. This is WHY women don't tell men exactly what sexual experiences lie in their past, most men don't dismiss it for being as insignificant as it is in present context.
> 
> You don't even know if what they guy insinuated is true. But if it is, put your house on the market and move. At this point you do need to know how likely it is that you are going to run into her ex lovers AND You need to be prepared to shut them down immediately should anyone be so stupid as to bring it up!
> 
> Then you can start a new thread about being threatened that your wife has had more sexual experience than you! Double standard, alive and well.


He does need to get to the bottom of this. While I agree that a person's sexual past shouldn't necessarily be held against them, if these allegations are true, the fact is the wife didn't really leave them in the past, did she? She brought them right up in to her present and allowed her husband to socialize with a man that she was more sexually adventurous with than him. *Without his knowledge.* It sounds like he was perfectly willing to let the past stay there, even if he was curious. But the fact is, he didn't go hunting for this info. He wasn't obsessing about it or ruining their relationship with constant questions and accusations about her past sexual exploits. This information fell right into his lap. And how did that happen, because his wife decided to invite a former lover into their social lives. That is a huge show of disrespect and dishonesty on her part. 

Now, if it turns out that this info isn't true at all. Well, you have another set of problems. Why is someone trying to stir up trouble? Is Brad telling lies, or is the other so called friend trying to stir the pot? Either way, it sounds like you need to re-evaluate your social circle (and maybe your marital status).


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## MrK

Anon Pink said:


> A persons past belongs to them, period.


DAMN!! You mean I DIDN'T NEED to tell my wife I used to sit across the street from the high school and pleasure myself, (in the privacy of my camper) to the girls in gym class? I mean, I only OCASSIONALLY get the urge to do it now from time to time...

My good friend married a gal who, from an EARLY age, was VERY comfortable walking into a bar and walking out with multiple men for sex. All innocent fun. No business of his, right?

Well, guess what she would do when she got bored in her marriage. Or better yet, pissed off at him, which happens a lot. MY wife gets ice cream. That's who she was. 

His x-wife isn't as heavy as mine now, if you know what I mean.

A person's past has nothing to do with who they are today? I don't even know what that MEANS.


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## Anon Pink

You're jumping to wild conclusions and making the leap based on extraordinary situations. I think it's a product of reading about extraordinary scenarios right here on TAM. How many other lovers did his wife have? 10? 30? 100's? How many is too many? What this guy KNOWS is that it is more than 3 AND that one of them lives next door. From that you jump to willing gangbangs and regularly stepping out on the marriage? Yeah... Totally reasonable, I can see where you don't understand what that means.


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## seasalt

There have been many previous posts about a spouse's past but to me that's not the real issue here. No spouse should be made to socialize with their loved one's previous sex partner either knowingly or unknowingly.

That in my estimation is a large sign of disrespect and uncaring.

Seasalt


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## Catherine602

I supose I should have expected it but it bothers me anyway. 

This woman's past is nothing she needs to be ashamed of. She explored her sexuality. It was her's to explore. The shaming and judgement implicitly or explicitly expressed is a big problem. The underlying notion is that a woman who enjoys sex just for because she does is somehow tainted. 

Anyone else see a problem with this? Can a woman enjoy her sexuality and pleasure without being shamed? According to a great majority of the posts that i read on TAM, the answer is no. Let me ask another way, can a wife enjoy her sexuality and pleasure withoiut being shamed? 

The problem here is deception. The comments on female sexuality is instructive but is that the base problem? This mans wife did a horrible thing to this man. What she did with or to herself may be a problem for her but she is not the sympathetic person in this sorry tale. 

I would like the men who express knee jerk negative attitudes about sexually active women to look at the effect that this has in their lives. Is it fair or reasonable to expect their wives to be the type of woman they so freely shame and curse within hearing of their wives?? 

Of course not. My advice, watch what you say and be consistent. You have a right to your code of ethics and to live your life according to them. But you have no right to judge others with different points of view. 

I am saying this because the judgement bothers me. But more than that is the lack of awareness of the effect of unguarded talk and inconsistant belief systems. If in principle you believe that women should suppress their sexual expression, so be it. Don't confuse the woman that you love by expecting her to violate your principles after she agrees to marry you. That is a bait and switch. 

If you want a rich and varied sex life with a woman who shares your values, then drop the sophomoric sexual negativity, judgement and shamming. For me and my emotional makeup, I chose to explore my sexuality in the safety of a committed relationship. That's me, I am not more principled than women who explored outside of marriage. I was true to my nature. I don't have any negative feelings about women who feel differently. 

If a man prefers a woman who makes the same choice then he has every right to find her. But if he is stupid enough to bad mouth women who are sexual, then he cannot expect his wife to feel sexually explorative with a man who cant control his tongue. Consideration and modulation of feelings and thoughts is an ongoing process of a thinking person in charge of themselves. Mass thinking is the opposite of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I wasn't seeing that kind of negative attitude toward women's sexuality. I know I don't have a problem with it. Now I do have a problem with the bad boy widow thing where a woman is sexually adventurous with every bad boy in town, then settles down with a nice guy and provides once a week duty missionary. I don't judge her past, I judge her present. I don't say her past is a bad thing. But it would certainly make me feel like a distant second place if she was open for others but closed for me. Add to that hiding it, then rubbing my nose in it without my knowledge and I'd just have to be gone.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Catherine602 said:


> I am saying this because the judgement bothers me. But more than that is the lack of awareness of the effect of unguarded talk and inconsistant belief systems. *If in principle you believe that women should suppress their sexual expression, so be it. Don't confuse the woman that you love by expecting her to violate your principles after she agrees to marry you. That is a bait and switch. *


I agree to this.
But would'nt the converse also be true?

Shouldn't a woman who believes in exploring her sexuality to the fullest outside of marriage simply just look for a man who has explored his sexuality to the fullest and they can both get married with no shaming of each other or " bait & switch?"

And isn't also a " bait & switch " situation when women who has explored her sexuality to the fullest outside of marriage, get married and suddenly no longer wants to
" explore her sexuality to the fullest ," but expects her husband to simply accept what ever she offers him ?

Clearly, issues of compatibility will arise, and either one starts feeling jealous of the other's past or another feels like she is being pressured to do things she may no longer be comfortable with, _because of her past_.

Absolutely nothing's wrong with living _" la vida voca. "_
But something is wrong with trying to force people who are not inclined in that way to accept your standard.

People are looked upon as old fashioned, dumb , low drive, asexual, freaks,and all sorts of negative descriptions assigned to them if they dont explore their sexuality fully before marriage, by people who did.
Half a dozen and six of the other.

No martyrs here.
To each his own.


----------



## richie33

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Catherine602 said:


> I supose I should have expected it but it bothers me anyway.
> 
> This woman's past is nothing she needs to be ashamed of. She explored her sexuality. It was her's to explore. The shaming and judgement implicitly or explicitly expressed is a big problem. The underlying notion is that a woman who enjoys sex just for because she does is somehow tainted.
> 
> Anyone else see a problem with this? Can a woman enjoy her sexuality and pleasure without being shamed? According to a great majority of the posts that i read on TAM, the answer is no. Let me ask another way, can a wife enjoy her sexuality and pleasure withoiut being shamed?


Absolutely. But if you are going to hold that position, you have to own it. Here, she did not. She actively hid it. She refused to discuss it. 



> The problem here is deception. The comments on female sexuality is instructive but is that the base problem? This mans wife did a horrible thing to this man. What she did with or to herself may be a problem for her but she is not the sympathetic person in this sorry tale.


I agree. Her deception in this whole thing is problematic. It causes doubts and lets the imagination go wild. 



> I would like the men who express knee jerk negative attitudes about sexually active women to look at the effect that this has in their lives. Is it fair or reasonable to expect their wives to be the type of woman they so freely shame and curse within hearing of their wives??
> 
> Of course not. My advice, watch what you say and be consistent. You have a right to your code of ethics and to live your life according to them. But you have no right to judge others with different points of view.


I agree that one should have a code of ethics and live by them. But one then needs to be honest about what that is. Be honest about how they got where they are and where their code comes from. 

Also, I do think you do have a right to that judgment when it comes to getting married. That is why honest on both sides is necessary. Expecting someone to love you for who you are, when you don't really tell them who you are, seems unfair. To hide something before marriage, then try to shame a person into accepting it, is no better. 



> I am saying this because the judgement bothers me. But more than that is the lack of awareness of the effect of unguarded talk and inconsistant belief systems. If in principle you believe that women should suppress their sexual expression, so be it. Don't confuse the woman that you love by expecting her to violate your principles after she agrees to marry you. That is a bait and switch.
> 
> If you want a rich and varied sex life with a woman who shares your values, then drop the sophomoric sexual negativity, judgement and shamming. For me and my emotional makeup, I chose to explore my sexuality in the safety of a committed relationship. That's me, I am not more principled than women who explored outside of marriage. I was true to my nature. I don't have any negative feelings about women who feel differently.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. One can think that sexual expression should be reserved for long term, serious relationships, and not merely one night stands. It is not either/or. There are gradations. Further, one can have no negative feelings for those women, and yet decide that their behavior is not one they want for a mate, just as with any behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a man prefers a woman who makes the same choice then he has every right to find her. But if he is stupid enough to bad mouth women who are sexual, then he cannot expect his wife to feel sexually explorative with a man who cant control his tongue. Consideration and modulation of feelings and thoughts is an ongoing process of a thinking person in charge of themselves. Mass thinking is the opposite of that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> If a woman is stupid enough to act in one way, then hide those actions, she cannot expect a man to them blindingly accept her.
> 
> On that, it seems that you want women to be able to explore their sexuality in any manner in which they chose, while hiding that exploration from their mate. I think this is a mistake, because if their mate is not able to accept her and what she did, it is far better to find that out before marriage.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## TBT

zookeeper said:


> While I agree that your wife should be confronted on this, I would suggest you not go in with the guns blazing. How exactly does this "friend" know the gritty details of their sex life like how much anal was going on? Unless he was in the room, his info comes from Brad. I suspect that Brad wouldn't be the first guy to exaggerate and even flat out lie about his sexcapades to his buddies. A controlled conversation will net you a lot more than being accusatory. You need to be on a fact finding mission before you blow up. You are much more likely to get the truth if you don't start off trying to shame her.
> 
> I would also love to know how exactly you ended up living next door to this guy. Did you move into her place?


:iagree: My experience is that stories are often embellished upon especially when told in a drunken atmosphere.You really need to get to the real truth.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Tall Average Guy said:


> One can think that sexual expression should be reserved for long term, serious relationships, and not merely one night stands. It is not either/or. There are gradations. *Further, one can have no negative feelings for those women, and yet decide that their behavior is not one they want for a mate, just as with any behavior.*


Exactly.
And even if he has negative feelings regarding that sort of behaviour, it is his right to feel that way, just like it is the woman's right to live her life in whatever way she sees fit.


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## Wanting1

I don't see this as a shaming situation. I agree with Catherine602 that the primary issue is about his wife's deception. But...I did just want to say that the way a person deals with their own sexual past can have a huge impact on a current relationship.

For example, my husband had more (let's just say a lot more) sexual experience than me. He became sexually active in his teens and I waited until my 20's, and while he wasn't my first, I was still very sexually inexperienced when we met. He had an attitude of "been there, done that" with so many sexual things. Things I was interested and excited to explore. But he just wasn't interested. Mostly things people try once and realize the reality is not as exciting as the idea of it. But I didn't get to make that choice. He made it for me, based on his past. He was over the experimental sexual phase. (And I wasn't asking him to do anything that made him uncomfortable. Just stuff he was bored with, apparently.) I mostly got over it and after a few years, I was able to explain my hurt at that and get a few of those experiences, so it's no longer an issue for me. But I have definitely been on the side of being denied your sexual curiosity because of a partner's past.

My point is, if he had brought an old girlfriend into our lives and helped me become her friend. Then at some point later, it was pointed out to me that this was the girl he licked the chocolate syrup off of and went skinny dipping with, I would be so upset at him. That he would keep a sexual experience "sacred" between them, and then bring her into our lives as a "friend" to our marriage, would damage our relationship immensely. Irreparably? Maybe not. That would depend on a lot of variables, but there would be consequences, no doubt. 

So, I think this particular situation is more about dishonesty and deception and less about female sexual shaming.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Frankly speaking the issue of a woman exploring her sexuality prior to marriage in her "past" and what it means for her and her husband when they marry, is too complex to discuss on a forum.

Each issue/perception/circumstance is multi-dimensional. For every woman who has had multitudes of partners to "explore her sexuality" and then brings a healthy and active attitude about sex into her marriage is also a woman who has "explored her sexuality" because of dysfunction growing up and brings in a VERY problematic attitude about sex in her marriage.

For every guy who is comfortable knowing about his wife's past, as long as he knows about it, there's also a guy who is insecure and wants to think of his wife a pure as the morning snow. 

There's no "rules" that work on this, it's literally a case by case situation. Lets move away from trying to discuss pasts in relationships. I have my opinions and they may not jive with others, but they're mine.

To the OP. Yes, you have every right to be mad about this. Not that your wife has a past (you messed up in not finding out her past and just took it on faith).

I had a similar situation happen, but I knew I was going into a situation with one of my wifes's ex lovers. We went on a vacation together with her and some college friends. One of the guys was an ex of my wife's. She had bought the tickets before finding out this guy was going and was EXTREMELY apologetic about it. It was very uncomfortable because the dude was one of those people who push buttons so he'd keep doing little subtle things. And her other friend was extremely "oblivious" to the situation. She knew about it but was inappropriate about a couple things said. My wife even slipped up a couple times falling back into sophomoric jokes that were "innocent" but still were disrespectful. Near the end of the trip I told her that I wasn't sure if I wanted to remain in this relationship because there's no way I'm going to continue to deal with crap like this. She can take her friends and shove them, after I pound the a$$hole first. She knew if the guy said one more thing I was going to seriously hurt him and also blow up at her friends. She begged to let her handle it and she "fixed" her actions. I know she struggled with trying to balance both sides (old college friends and me) but there's a reason ex's should stay in the past. She learned from that situation and I applaud her for how she's been since.

But OP, you need to correct some issues. Your wife's actions go beyond a "mistake". They're premeditated.


----------



## aug

Anon Pink said:


> It was wrong of your wife to have her husband living next door to and socializing with an ex lover completely unaware. Monstrously wrong!
> 
> It was wrong of you to allow that guy to speak to you about your wife's past without calling him out. How dare he discuss your wife like that? Who the hell is he to make insinuations like that? AngryTony, you also blew it, big time!
> 
> However...
> 
> A persons past belongs to them, period. Double standard alive and well. Angry Tony, before you confront your wife, you must be able to honestly state exactly how much of her past sexual escapades are going to affect you. This is WHY women don't tell men exactly what sexual experiences lie in their past, most men don't dismiss it for being as insignificant as it is in present context.
> 
> You don't even know if what they guy insinuated is true. But if it is, put your house on the market and move. At this point you do need to know how likely it is that you are going to run into her ex lovers AND You need to be prepared to shut them down immediately should anyone be so stupid as to bring it up!
> 
> Then you can start a new thread about being threatened that your wife has had more sexual experience than you! Double standard, alive and well.


I disagree.

A person's past has a bearing on the future. 

Without knowing her past, how did he know whether or not to call out that guy? If the guy spoke the truth, what's there to call out?

Most normal human being dont go around making up a ****ty past about other people.


----------



## Wing Man

richie33 said:


> What a douche that guy was to be talking about your wife like that also.
> Your wife has some explaining to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree, and we would definitely not be hanging out with those people anymore because eventually it would end up in a fist fight on my part. And whenever you have someone in the equation that has also had sex with your spouse - it's always a bit uncomfortable, unless it's maybe an ex that he or she shares child custody with.


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## Catherine602

WOM & TAG there is nothing in my post that can be construed as favoring her deception. That is quite clear if you read it again. There is a difference between principled beliefs and judgement. Your principals are yours to hold. They are only principals if they govern as many of your thoughts and actions as you can manage. That is difficult to do. We can easily excuse our violation of our own principles but are intoleratnt of anyone else who violates them. Funny huh. 

There is a reason that we should not judge. Take it from a judgmental person. The harshness of your judgement of others is directed at yourself when you make an error. So you have a vested interest in tempering this human tendency, as do I.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

I wish this didn't get turned into a shaming discussion every time it comes up on TAM.

Yes one or two out of hundred are by some guy who wanted to marry virgin.

However the rest of them are from a guy who's wife either lied about or deliberately hid her past choices.

And yes, it is entirely reasonable to evaluate the person you are going to marry based on their past. The woman or man is still perfectly empowered to explore their sexuality - BUT - that doesn't remove the need for them to respect their future spouse by telling the truth to them about what they did explore and who they explored it with.

Freedom to explore doesn't come at the expense of telling the full truth to your future spouse.

Just like you have to disclose if you've been married, gone to prison, were hooked on coke, served in the foreign legion, or voted for Regan.


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## EnjoliWoman

aug said:


> I disagree.
> 
> A person's past has a bearing on the future.
> 
> Without knowing her past, how did he know whether or not to call out that guy? If the guy spoke the truth, what's there to call out?
> 
> Most normal human being dont go around making up a ****ty past about other people.


Who says she's ****ty? Because of ONE guy/anal sex??? Judge much?

I agree any time you are in a social situation and an ex lover is going to be present, your SO should know. I really hope they live in apartments because owning a home near an ex would be weird but meeting and hitting it off with apartment neighbors is pretty common.


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## Tall Average Guy

Catherine602 said:


> WOM & TAG there is nothing in my post that can be construed as favoring her deception. That is quite clear if you read it again. There is a difference between principled beliefs and judgement. Your principals are yours to hold. They are only principals if they govern as many of your thoughts and actions as you can manage. That is difficult to do. We can easily excuse our violation of our own principles but are intoleratnt of anyone else who violates them. Funny huh.


I misinterpreted your points that she should not be shamed over her activities as indicating that she should not share them with a mate. 



> There is a reason that we should not judge. Take it from a judgmental person. The harshness of your judgement of others is directed at yourself when you make an error. So you have a vested interest in tempering this human tendency, as do I.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suspect this is a question over what "judging" constitutes. We all judge others. We approve or disapprove of actions. When then decide how that judgement alters the relationship. I too try to be careful to ensure that my decisions based on judgments is reasonable and measured.


----------



## Entropy3000

Anon Pink said:


> It was wrong of your wife to have her husband living next door to and socializing with an ex lover completely unaware. Monstrously wrong!
> 
> It was wrong of you to allow that guy to speak to you about your wife's past without calling him out. How dare he discuss your wife like that? Who the hell is he to make insinuations like that? AngryTony, you also blew it, big time!
> 
> *No indeed, he should not have done anything at that time. I get where you are coming from. But what was said was not something he should have punched the guy out for. If the guy said, oh I wish I had done this or that or I would do this or that then fine. Clean his clock.* *Realize that at this point the husband is stunned. In a real shock. He is feeling all sorts of things. Maybe anger to the messaenger. But for sure humliation and betrayal. Plus he is being told that Brad has been her lover. Then in a very contrived way this story throws in the old she did things with others she will not do with him. A whole other discussion that we have from time to time here.*
> 
> However...
> 
> A persons past belongs to them, period.
> 
> *When we are dedicating our life to each other we give ourselves completely to each other. Our past, our present and our future are all in play. It all matters. But the most important thing is transparency.*
> 
> Double standard alive and well.
> 
> *No double standard. My wife knew my past. I made sure of it. No surprises. She got to make her choice based on the truth. No lies. Starting a relationship based on a lie is very wrong. I can tell you at least two women who I was close with told me that they had dealbreakers with my past. Now the thing is that they were not compatible with me. Also this does not have to be a double standard. I entreat women to be choosier as well. But that is their business.*
> 
> Angry Tony, before you confront your wife, you must be able to honestly state exactly how much of her past sexual escapades are going to affect you. This is WHY women don't tell men exactly what sexual experiences lie in their past, most men don't dismiss it for being as insignificant as it is in present context.
> 
> *Again, if most women do this then most women are liars and most women have low self esteem. Surely most women have evolved past this. They need to. If one is ashamed of their past I get that. But the person you must be completely transparent with is the person you are giving yourself to. In no way am I saying most women are this way.
> 
> But the worst thing about this is not the truth, but the lie. If a woman cannot bare herself to her man then she is not ready for a commitment. I hope very much you are wrong about most women. But indeed one should never blame their own lie on someone else. Your past is part of who you are. If you feel that your new partner will not understand then they are the wrong person for you. This is how the so called good guys are trapped. You yourself have posted as much in the past. They find out in a few years that the reason that their wives are seeking attention from other men is that their wives were not truthful about their past. That the wife was only settling for him because he had a safe job but that the men that really stoked her fires were a completely different breed altogether.
> 
> But again bigger than this, while we all have flaws if a woman is contemplating not being transparent she needs to look inside herself and say, am I this broken, this ashamed of myself, this shallow as to not have a leap of faith to be honest with my future husband. I get the reason for the fear. I really do. But it is the height of selfishness to withhold from your partner. It will forever be a barrier. A secret.
> *
> You don't even know if what they guy insinuated is true.
> 
> *Agreed. So he needs to get transparency now. For me, especially with it being a year and no children, I would consider the marriage as being a lie if this is true. But the biggest issue is NOT her past. She lied by omission about Brad. Not telling someone something like this is a lie as well.*
> 
> But if it is, put your house on the market and move.
> 
> *He needs to decide whether he is going to stay in the marriage. He needs transparency. If this is true about Brad he has reason to divorce.* *But if he decides to stay I agree, they should move ASAP. he also needs to make sure that she has not been in an affair with Brad on the side.* *He has reason to believe she is a liar so he must be very skeptical.*
> 
> At this point you do need to know how likely it is that you are going to run into her ex lovers AND You need to be prepared to shut them down immediately should anyone be so stupid as to bring it up!
> 
> *I agree, but I do not see those people as being stupid at all. Asking othe people to be complicit in a lie is wrong as well. See how this lying stuff permeates things and poisons all.*
> 
> Then you can start a new thread about being threatened that your wife has had more sexual experience than you!
> 
> *This is very condescending I think. Bashing on him for feeling threatened. This is a sahaming technique. Sorry but a man can feel anyway he wants about a woman's sexual past. As women can about men's. To say that this is somehow an insecurity in the man is very demeaning. Sorry folks, I believe in compatibility. But some guys want a woman with self esteem. To many guys, sex is not just sex. They do not want to be on the end of a long chain of sexual partners. You do not have to accept this. What the long chain is lilely based on compatibility.
> 
> Personally I would look for this compatibility. I would want to see a maturing process in her history. I would also like to see that she values her sexual relationship to the point where she can live in a monogamous relationship. So I would need to see the whole picture. This is a practical matter. And as I have said many times in the past I am not interested in extreme party girls to marry unless they have long outgrown that. Like I did.
> *
> Double standard, alive and well.
> 
> *I have not seen a double standard here. I am fine with women having all the sex they desire. I do not think less of them. We can even be close friends. However I do not have to marry them either. And they do not have to marry me.
> *


*Anon, indeed your opinions here as as valid as anyone elses. You touched a number of key points and I leveraged your post to state my own point of view.*


----------



## Anon Pink

aug said:


> I disagree.
> 
> A person's past has a bearing on the future.
> 
> Without knowing her past, how did he know whether or not to call out that guy? If the guy spoke the truth, what's there to call out?
> 
> Most normal human being dont go around making up a ****ty past about other people.


What difference does her past make? lets assume it is true, she not only had lots of sex with the neighbor she had a gangbang with him too? The point is, *one simply does not discuss the sexual history of one spouse with the other spouse. *There is only one response from a husband, to a man who would do such a thing and it doesn't involve being polite or civil!


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> I supose I should have expected it but it bothers me anyway.
> 
> This woman's past is nothing she needs to be ashamed of. She explored her sexuality. It was her's to explore. The shaming and judgement implicitly or explicitly expressed is a big problem. The underlying notion is that a woman who enjoys sex just for because she does is somehow tainted.
> 
> Anyone else see a problem with this? Can a woman enjoy her sexuality and pleasure without being shamed? According to a great majority of the posts that i read on TAM, the answer is no. Let me ask another way, can a wife enjoy her sexuality and pleasure withoiut being shamed?
> 
> *The problem here is deception.* The comments on female sexuality is instructive but is that the base problem? This mans wife did a horrible thing to this man. What she did with or to herself may be a problem for her but she is not the sympathetic person in this sorry tale.
> 
> I would like the men who express knee jerk negative attitudes about sexually active women to look at the effect that this has in their lives. Is it fair or reasonable to expect their wives to be the type of woman they so freely shame and curse within hearing of their wives??
> 
> Of course not. My advice, watch what you say and be consistent. You have a right to your code of ethics and to live your life according to them. But you have no right to judge others with different points of view.
> 
> I am saying this because the judgement bothers me. But more than that is the lack of awareness of the effect of unguarded talk and inconsistant belief systems. If in principle you believe that women should suppress their sexual expression, so be it. Don't confuse the woman that you love by expecting her to violate your principles after she agrees to marry you. That is a bait and switch.
> 
> If you want a rich and varied sex life with a woman who shares your values, then drop the sophomoric sexual negativity, judgement and shamming. For me and my emotional makeup, I chose to explore my sexuality in the safety of a committed relationship. That's me, I am not more principled than women who explored outside of marriage. I was true to my nature. I don't have any negative feelings about women who feel differently.
> 
> If a man prefers a woman who makes the same choice then he has every right to find her. But if he is stupid enough to bad mouth women who are sexual, then he cannot expect his wife to feel sexually explorative with a man who cant control his tongue. Consideration and modulation of feelings and thoughts is an ongoing process of a thinking person in charge of themselves. Mass thinking is the opposite of that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The key here is the decpetion. But a spouse can choose or not choose of their own free will who they wish to marry and why. But we owe our spouse the truth. We do not want them choosing us from false information.

Consider that shaming goes boith ways. Let's not shame the woman, but equally let's not shame the man either. This is perhaps the most important decision a person can make in thier lives. It belongs to them. 

If you cannot bare all for me then I am not the right person for you.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Catherine,
Whether we like to admit or not, we all judge others based on our values.
With respect to allowing people into our personal lives, we judge people even more harshly.
Each of us have different criteria.
For some , it may be finance, sex , social status, religious beliefs , educational level, political affiliations and the list can go on idefinitely.
Not all judgements are bad, some can be neutral.
But we tend to see things through our very, own lenses.
It's a way of deciding how it will affect us, or self preservation.


----------



## treyvion

Anon Pink said:


> What difference does her past make? lets assume it is true, she not only had lots of sex with the neighbor she had a gangbang with him too? The point is, *one simply does not discuss the sexual history of one spouse with the other spouse. *There is only one response from a husband, to a man who would do such a thing and it doesn't involve being polite or civil!


So It should be the wife and other guys secret. Little hubby should be a blind sheep around them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Note : OP has not come back and elaborated on the specifics of just how Brad became their neighbor.

I do find this very contrived as in Dear Penthouse. However, it is very plausible as well. In fact to one degree or another I venture to say that this is very common. Where a spouse keeps secret their EX lovers and keeps them in their lives.

Also we hear that many women keep this information a secret for whatever reason. So you know what? The discussion itself is still worth having.

We all deserve our freedoms. But others deserve the same. They are free to judge us any way they wish. Everything we do in life has consequences. Some folks are ok with some level of drug use. Perhaps they want someone into this to marry. If my wife kept this a secret from me I would feel the same way. It is part of our history. My arrest record matters. My education matters. It is all fair game.


----------



## Anon Pink

Entropy, I think you make valid points regarding compatibility. In a perfect world no one would ever be ashamed of past behavior, no one would be threatened by a wife's experience. But the truth is, men are threatened. The truth is, women do stupid things they regret. The truth is, sometimes a woman knows that her past is going to cause a problem with this guy she really loves and really wants him to love her back. 

I'm not suggesting it's right, I'm saying that one causes the other. If the wife felt that revealing a sordid past would be met with acceptance and reasonable perspective, she most likely wouldn't have a problem admitting it. But too often it does create a problem.

Personally, I can't understand WANTING to be with a man who would take exception and make judgments about a woman's past sexual experience.

I can understand this husband was taken completely off guard by this guy at the party and wasn't prepared. Who could possibly be prepared for such a thing? Even if they had gone into detail about sexual histories, even if it was true and he knew about it...who would be prepared to call the guy out for those comments?

Entropy, some men are less judgmental than others. You are one of them. The double standard is the fact that there ARE men making absurd leaps and judgments in this thread and the fact that YOU don't call them out on it is allowing the double standard to exist.


----------



## Anon Pink

treyvion said:


> So It should be the wife and other guys secret. Little hubby should be a blind sheep around them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


not whatI said at all, read my whole post over again.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Anon Pink said:


> Personally, I can't understand WANTING to be with a man who would take exception and make judgments about a woman's past sexual experience.


Me neither.
And I've tried over and over to figure it out in my head.

It all boils down to self preservation in IMO.

The woman wants to preserve her dignity. But she must _think_ that the man would want to preserve his dignity too?

In the OP's situation he feels embarrassed.Had both of them spoken about it before he would not have been embarrassed, in fact he would have taken the necessary steps by avoiding her ex boyfriend's party and company.

If both parties had the same value system then the problem of a 
" past " cannot arise. The only way to figure out if they share the same value system is to talk about it.
Two people have different value system, then they are incompatible and problems WILL ARISE


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Anon Pink said:


> Entropy, I think you make valid points regarding compatibility. In a perfect world no one would ever be ashamed of past behavior, no one would be threatened by a wife's experience. But the truth is, men are threatened. The truth is, women do stupid things they regret. The truth is, sometimes a woman knows that her past is going to cause a problem with this guy she really loves and really wants him to love her back.
> 
> I'm not suggesting it's right, I'm saying that one causes the other. If the wife felt that revealing a sordid past would be met with acceptance and reasonable perspective, she most likely wouldn't have a problem admitting it. But too often it does create a problem.
> 
> Personally, I can't understand WANTING to be with a man who would take exception and make judgments about a woman's past sexual experience.


Exactly. Which is why hiding it is such a problem. It shows incompatibility (or at least the perception that the couple has incompatibility issues) right from the beginning.



> I can understand this husband was taken completely off guard by this guy at the party and wasn't prepared. Who could possibly be prepared for such a thing? Even if they had gone into detail about sexual histories, even if it was true and he knew about it...who would be prepared to call the guy out for those comments?


Add to it the drinking and being a stranger, and I can understand why he did not say anything.



> Entropy, some men are less judgmental than others. You are one of them. The double standard is the fact that there ARE men making absurd leaps and judgments in this thread and the fact that YOU don't call them out on it is allowing the double standard to exist.


Where are the absurd leaps and judgments in this thread? I reread the thread and have seen little or none in it.


----------



## doubletrouble

Such a deception would be unacceptable in my relationship. If I found out we were living next to any of my wife's exes, or vice versa, I'd move to a hotel room immediately and start looking for another house. 

And if I had to "find out" rather than her telling me up front, there would be hell to pay.


----------



## Entropy3000

Tall Average Guy said:


> Absolutely. But if you are going to hold that position, you have to own it. Here, she did not. She actively hid it. She refused to discuss it.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Her deception in this whole thing is problematic. It causes doubts and lets the imagination go wild.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that one should have a code of ethics and live by them. But one then needs to be honest about what that is. Be honest about how they got where they are and where their code comes from.
> 
> Also, I do think you do have a right to that judgment when it comes to getting married. That is why honest on both sides is necessary. Expecting someone to love you for who you are, when you don't really tell them who you are, seems unfair. To hide something before marriage, then try to shame a person into accepting it, is no better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am saying this because the judgement bothers me. But more than that is the lack of awareness of the effect of unguarded talk and inconsistant belief systems. If in principle you believe that women should suppress their sexual expression, so be it. Don't confuse the woman that you love by expecting her to violate your principles after she agrees to marry you. That is a bait and switch.
> 
> If you want a rich and varied sex life with a woman who shares your values, then drop the sophomoric sexual negativity, judgement and shamming. For me and my emotional makeup, I chose to explore my sexuality in the safety of a committed relationship. That's me, I am not more principled than women who explored outside of marriage. I was true to my nature. I don't have any negative feelings about women who feel differently.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. One can think that sexual expression should be reserved for long term, serious relationships, and not merely one night stands. It is not either/or. There are gradations. Further, one can have no negative feelings for those women, and yet decide that their behavior is not one they want for a mate, just as with any behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If a woman is stupid enough to act in one way, then hide those actions, she cannot expect a man to them blindingly accept her.
> 
> On that, it seems that you want women to be able to explore their sexuality in any manner in which they chose, while hiding that exploration from their mate. I think this is a mistake, because if their mate is not able to accept her and what she did, it is far better to find that out before marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> I agree. Some women are very sexual. However they get the most out ouf sex in the context of a monogamous relationship.
> 
> Married sex for me has been infinitley better that the sex I have had outside of marriage. Yes that was very nice. Part of me growing up and discovering I wanted more. So again for me sex is not just sex. A woman can indeed be HD and not be having a long string of ONSs.
> 
> I am not interested in a woman who was into group sex for example. Who for years just partied with a namelss crowd of men and women. I do not care if she learned to do all sorts of sexual things that many women are not involved in. I did not marry a sex toy. I am not that shallow. When I have sex with a woman I have sex with her. The person. I am not looking for a hooker. I am fine with my wife and I exploring our sexual relationship together based on a compatible past.
> 
> I actually think many very highly sexually active people are not truly highly sexual at all. They do it like they are going to McDonalds because it holds no great significance or value to them. A woman who has had some finite number of monogamous relationship should not be disrespected by saying she is not sexual. So to do so is shaming these women. What is up with that?
> 
> I frankly could care less what another persons sexual past is. That is their business. But if I am going to marry them I need to know what it is. My sexual past is mild by many standards and wild by others. I have seen enough to know what I think was good and what was F^cked up. I was getting pulled into some F^cked stuff and had the self esteem to say, wait a munite this is F^cked up. I want more. I was not into screwing one woman and then after she was done moving to the next and the next all in the same room at the same time. A fantasy? Whatever. It wears off pretty quick. I would not want a woman who did the same. BUT, I would listen and if she made a similar choice as I did then she and I were compatible. I have great compassion. I need the truth. That is what matters most. Lying to me is a deep betrayal.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## ClimbingTheWalls

I admit I have not read every reply to this thread in detail but am I the only one who finds it faintly distasteful that the OP found it necessary to mention that, in essence, it seems a large part of his annoyance is that his wife apparently did anal with Brad and has not done so with him? What's with the jealousy there?

Be that as it may I would take what the friend had to say with a pinch of salt. He may well be embellishing what Brad told him in the first place and Brad may well have been embellishing what actually happened. If that kind of drunken conversation is fair game in this particular social circle then I think it is quite likely that the people involved also exaggerate their conquests. Goes with the territory.

I think the OP would be well advised to keep his cool, not accuse his wife of anything, and simply report what the friend said. The wife may be appalled to find out what is being said about her behind her back.

As for discussion of past conquests in general, I personally don't get the moral outrage. I am entirely uninterested in who my husband may or may not have slept with prior to our marriage and, frankly, I would rather not know if he happened to have had a liaison with someone in our circle of friends. Nor is he interested in my past.


----------



## Wanting1

Catherine602 said:


> WOM & TAG there is nothing in my post that can be construed as favoring her deception. That is quite clear if you read it again. There is a difference between principled beliefs and judgement. Your principals are yours to hold. They are only principals if they govern as many of your thoughts and actions as you can manage. That is difficult to do. We can easily excuse our violation of our own principles but are intoleratnt of anyone else who violates them. Funny huh.
> 
> There is a reason that we should not judge. Take it from a judgmental person. The harshness of your judgement of others is directed at yourself when you make an error. So you have a vested interest in tempering this human tendency, as do I.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine, I actually agree with just about everything that you have said in this thread, except that this particular thread is full of female shaming. Although, I will readily admit to being disappointed at other threads that devolve into the double standard issues of female vs male sexuality. 



Anon Pink said:


> Entropy, I think you make valid points regarding compatibility. In a perfect world no one would ever be ashamed of past behavior, no one would be threatened by a wife's experience. But the truth is, men are threatened. The truth is, women do stupid things they regret. The truth is, sometimes a woman knows that her past is going to cause a problem with this guy she really loves and really wants him to love her back.
> 
> I'm not suggesting it's right, I'm saying that one causes the other. If the wife felt that revealing a sordid past would be met with acceptance and reasonable perspective, she most likely wouldn't have a problem admitting it. But too often it does create a problem.
> 
> Personally, I can't understand WANTING to be with a man who would take exception and make judgments about a woman's past sexual experience.
> 
> I can understand this husband was taken completely off guard by this guy at the party and wasn't prepared. Who could possibly be prepared for such a thing? Even if they had gone into detail about sexual histories, even if it was true and he knew about it...who would be prepared to call the guy out for those comments?
> 
> Entropy, some men are less judgmental than others. You are one of them. The double standard is the fact that there ARE men making absurd leaps and judgments in this thread and the fact that YOU don't call them out on it is allowing the double standard to exist.


You write as if to encompass all men and all women in your assumptions about why women lie about and why men have issues with female sexuality. And I guess that's what I personally have a problem with. I can definitely agree with you that *some* men and women react this way. This particular instance could likely fall into that category...probably does. I'll give you that. I think that any person (man or woman) who lies about their past to avoid a problem in the relationship, really needs to evaluate what they are afraid of. And also, how about having enough self-control to not do things that you will be ashamed of in the future. That probably requires a little more self-awareness than some people have, though.


----------



## Entropy3000

Anon Pink said:


> Entropy, I think you make valid points regarding compatibility. In a perfect world no one would ever be ashamed of past behavior, no one would be threatened by a wife's experience. But the truth is, men are threatened. The truth is, women do stupid things they regret. The truth is, sometimes a woman knows that her past is going to cause a problem with this guy she really loves and really wants him to love her back.
> 
> I'm not suggesting it's right, I'm saying that one causes the other. If the wife felt that revealing a sordid past would be met with acceptance and reasonable perspective, she most likely wouldn't have a problem admitting it. But too often it does create a problem.
> 
> Personally, I can't understand WANTING to be with a man who would take exception and make judgments about a woman's past sexual experience.
> 
> I can understand this husband was taken completely off guard by this guy at the party and wasn't prepared. Who could possibly be prepared for such a thing? Even if they had gone into detail about sexual histories, even if it was true and he knew about it...who would be prepared to call the guy out for those comments?
> 
> Entropy, some men are less judgmental than others. You are one of them. The double standard is the fact that there ARE men making absurd leaps and judgments in this thread and the fact that YOU don't call them out on it is allowing the double standard to exist.


Nice post. It pleases me much that you take my comments in the way I felt them. 

For whatever reason I have a real problem with being lied to. No doubt something in my past, but it really bugs me. I value very highly the intimacy that one can have with full disclosure like this. It is a very wonderful thing if one can attain it. And again, my wife chose me knowing what my past was about. Perhaps she saw past it. Or maybe she liked some of it. You know the I am going to make this bad boy love me thing. But maybe she just accepted me for who I was and what I was becoming.

And I will tell you some of the comments I have made here about myself make me feel ... not so great. But it is part of my past. I think I learned much from it all.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> t. I think that any person (man or woman) who lies about their past to avoid a problem in the relationship, really needs to evaluate what they are afraid of. *And also, how about having enough self-control to not do things that you will be ashamed of in the future. That probably requires a little more self-awareness than some people have, though.*


Everyone is responsible for their decisions and actions.
Squander your education, either you go through life broke or you go back to school part time to make up.
Be responsible and own your stuff.

Society owes you nothing.

You live your life how you see fit and that's your right, but chances are that you may very well be limiting your potential pool of marital partners later.
That's just the way things are.

Will it ever change?

I don't know , men in general are even more sceptical about marriage now than ever.
But humans are reward oriented, give them a good incentive to change,
and they will.
Shame them for their way of thinking and they will continue along the same path.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> I admit I have not read every reply to this thread in detail but am I the only one who finds it faintly distasteful that the OP found it necessary to mention that, in essence, it seems a large part of his annoyance is that his wife apparently did anal with Brad and has not done so with him? What's with the jealousy there?
> 
> Be that as it may I would take what the friend had to say with a pinch of salt. He may well be embellishing what Brad told him in the first place and Brad may well have been embellishing what actually happened. If that kind of drunken conversation is fair game in this particular social circle then I think it is quite likely that the people involved also exaggerate their conquests. Goes with the territory.
> 
> I think the OP would be well advised to keep his cool, not accuse his wife of anything, and simply report what the friend said. The wife may be appalled to find out what is being said about her behind her back.
> 
> As for discussion of past conquests in general, I personally don't get the moral outrage. I am entirely uninterested in who my husband may or may not have slept with prior to our marriage and, frankly, I would rather not know if he happened to have had a liaison with someone in our circle of friends. Nor is he interested in my past.


Speaking from my point of view, I can understand where the would be angry. It would be one thing if his wife tried anal once, twice or a handful of times and decided that she didn't enjoy it. But if she was an "anal queen" for a prior BF and now she can't bear to do the same thing with her husband - that's different. Now maybe she has a medical issue or the claims are simply not true. But if health is not an issue and it comes to simply a he said/she said situation, then how does the OP resolve that? Honestly, he couldn't. But one thing that makes no sense is why are they living next door to her long term lover? That was a terrible omission on the wife's part.


----------



## doubletrouble

I know quite a bit about my wife's sexual past. She knows quite a bit about mine. Not all of it though, and she doesn't want to. She knows I was a lot wilder than she was, and that's probably more than she wanted to know. But I didn't hide it from her. She knew when we first met I was a bit flirty, and that bothered her. 

But I'm completely devoted to her; I only flirt with her now! And she got over it


----------



## Entropy3000

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> I admit I have not read every reply to this thread in detail but am I the only one who finds it faintly distasteful that the OP found it necessary to mention that, in essence, it seems a large part of his annoyance is that his wife apparently did anal with Brad and has not done so with him? What's with the jealousy there?
> 
> Be that as it may I would take what the friend had to say with a pinch of salt. He may well be embellishing what Brad told him in the first place and Brad may well have been embellishing what actually happened. If that kind of drunken conversation is fair game in this particular social circle then I think it is quite likely that the people involved also exaggerate their conquests. Goes with the territory.
> 
> I think the OP would be well advised to keep his cool, not accuse his wife of anything, and simply report what the friend said. The wife may be appalled to find out what is being said about her behind her back.
> 
> As for discussion of past conquests in general, I personally don't get the moral outrage. I am entirely uninterested in who my husband may or may not have slept with prior to our marriage and, frankly, I would rather not know if he happened to have had a liaison with someone in our circle of friends. Nor is he interested in my past.


A husband wants to be THE guy in his wifes life. I get the jealousy that his wife was able to be sexual in a way with this guy she cannot be with her husband. Indeed this has been explained before as experimentation and that a woman can grow out of.

Now if you tell me there is no way a woman can think of her husband as THE guy because she has just had so many others and it is unrealistic ... I will say ... ahha!!

Most men's emotional needs are topped by :

1) Sexual Fullfilment
2) Respect / Admiration

A husband wants to be the woman's greatest lover. Can he be that? Sure. It does not require the wife being a virgin by any means. But a husband does not just want to be one of a big crowd. Even if she married him. Because marrying him does not mean he is her greatest lover.

But it smacks of being the non sexual husband. The duality where a woman can be very sexual with some men but not their husbands. Think of it as a female Madonna Wh0re complex. Pretty messed up.

See to me I need to be my wifes lover first. Being her best male friend is next and then and only then her husband. I married my wife to be in a life long affair with her. Many men are this way.

So if a wife was really into anal or oral or whatever and then decides she has outgrown it with her hubby I think it is normal for a husband to feel less.

I mean lets say a woman found out her husband loved giving oral to other women but for some reason decided he did not want to do this for his wife. And the wife craved this. And realized that she will never ever have this again with a man in her life.

I think this stuff has nothing to do with moral outrage. It has to do with values.


----------



## Catherine602

E and CM I totally agree with you. If I had to venture a guess, I would say she wanted to settle down and he was available but I don't know. Is that judgmental? Unfortunately, it happens all the time with men and women. 

There is no way that you can love a person that you have lied to, it does not compute. For me, intimacy and love grows from mutial revelations between two people. It's a relief to find someone who knows your faults, mistakes and misdeeds but loves and accepts you as you are. 

If you don't reveal yourself, you never get the validation that you are really alright and lovable even though you are not what you maybe should be. Dating is the venue of mutual revelation. If she hid things then it appears she did not really see him as a man she wanted to be close to but one that she found useful.

I feel bad about thread jacking but the OP didn't come back. If the story is true, I don't see how he could just walk away from the thread he started. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kobo

Entropy3000 said:


> Note : OP has not come back and elaborated on the specifics of just how Brad became their neighbor.
> 
> I do find this very contrived as in Dear Penthouse. However, it is very plausible as well. In fact to one degree or another I venture to say that this is very common. Where a spouse keeps secret their EX lovers and keeps them in their lives.
> 
> Also we hear that many women keep this information a secret for whatever reason. So you know what? The discussion itself is still worth having.
> 
> We all deserve our freedoms. But others deserve the same. They are free to judge us any way they wish. Everything we do in life has consequences. Some folks are ok with some level of drug use. Perhaps they want someone into this to marry. If my wife kept this a secret from me I would feel the same way. It is part of our history. My arrest record matters. My education matters. It is all fair game.


Women generally hate to be judged on their past when they allowed men of lesser stock to share their most valued possession. On the other hand most men who can't get over the fact that their wives had a past and were young, dumb, and full of c_m(just like they were) seem to be guys who look back on their younger days and wonder if they've missed out on some things. In general as a man I would not expect to know everything or everyone my wife had a relationship with. Sexual, almost sexual, non-sexual, whatever. I don't suspect many of the men who married the women I've slept with know about me. Of course you ask the question about how many partners they've had and then double it. If that number is something you can deal with then deal. Now if she says 3, you double to 6 and it turns out to be 75. Then that's a whole different ballgame.


----------



## talin

Don't tell her how you got the information.

Just sit down with her, look her in the eye and say "Tell me about Brad, I want all the history. I know a lot but I want to hear it from you".

Then report back with what she has to say and we'll advise you further.


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> E and CM I totally agree with you. If I had to venture a guess, I would say she wanted to settle down and he was available but I don't know. Is that judgmental? Unfortunately, it happens all the time with men and women.
> 
> *Yes it does. I fall into that category. I like to think I matured. But my wife knew what she was getting. I loved her too much to try to fake it.*
> 
> There is no way that you can love a person that you have lied to, it does not compute. For me, intimacy and love grows from mutial revelations between two people. It's a relief to find someone who knows your faults, mistakes and misdeeds but loves and accepts you as you are.
> 
> *We know this about you. We also see your compassion for others and you not wanting to see others shamed or abused. This is part of why you are so awesome. We recognize this in you.*
> 
> If you don't reveal yourself, you never get the validation that you are really alright and lovable even though you are not what you maybe should be. Dating is the venue of mutual revelation. If she hid things then it appears she did not really see him as a man she wanted to be close to but one that she found useful.
> 
> *Absolutely!! Dead on. This is the essence of things is it not?*
> 
> I feel bad about thread jacking but the OP didn't come back. If the story is true, I don't see how he could just walk away.
> 
> *He needs to seek the truth. It is very possible this can be resolved with them together but it might not. For sure this crowd has to go.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Kobo said:


> Women generally hate to be judged on their past when they allowed men of lesser stock to share their most valued possession. On the other hand most men who can't get over the fact that their wives had a past and were young, dumb, and full of c_m(just like they were) seem to be guys who look back on their younger days and wonder if they've missed out on some things. In general as a man I would not expect to know everything or everyone my wife had a relationship with. Sexual, almost sexual, non-sexual, whatever. I don't suspect many of the men who married the women I've slept with know about me. Of course you ask the question about how many partners they've had and then double it. If that number is something you can deal with then deal. Now if she says 3, you double to 6 and it turns out to be 75. Then that's a whole different ballgame.


The thing is that there is not much difference between 3 and 6 to me. I get it is to some folks.

But if they say 3 and then ... 3 more pop up, then all you know is that you cannot trust your wife. That sux.

Because if she will lie about this she will lie about a lot of other more important things. To assume I am not capable of handling the truth is judging me unfairly.


----------



## Starstarfish

But if your basic assumption is that your spouse is lying about the number anyway (hence why you need to double it) - isn't that in and of itself a problem? I mean, do you also double other information they tell you like how much they spent yesterday? Is it just about sex, or does everything they tell you need to be second guessed?


----------



## Catherine602

Kobo said:


> Women generally hate to be judged on their past when they allowed men of lesser stock to share their most valued possession. On the other hand most men who can't get over the fact that their wives had a past and were young, dumb, and full of c_m(just like they were) seem to be guys who look back on their younger days and wonder if they've missed out on some things. In general as a man I would not expect to know everything or everyone my wife had a relationship with. Sexual, almost sexual, non-sexual, whatever. I don't suspect many of the men who married the women I've slept with know about me. Of course you ask the question about how many partners they've had and then double it. If that number is something you can deal with then deal. Now if she says 3, you double to 6 and it turns out to be 75. Then that's a whole different ballgame.


Most valued possession? I dont want to jump all over every utterance. It shuts people down. I just wanted to let you know my reaction to this often held notion. maybe i am having a bad day but It pisses me off. 

Maybe it mildly annoys other woman? My husband said something like this many times. I didnt respond as i am here because i think he should express himself freely in his own house with out me reacting to every word. He is a good man so it's all good. I have no doubt that you are a good man but I am in a fighting mood today.  

I accept that these notions are part of the cultural fabric and are expressed unquestioned. Makes me feel like my ability or willingness to have sex is all I am. I have always thought of myself in more multifaceted terms and my value far beyond the sum total of sex parts. 

You probably had no idea I would take what you said that way because I am certain it is not what you meant. But that's what I think of when i see this. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

talin said:


> Don't tell her how you got the information.
> 
> Just sit down with her, look her in the eye and say "Tell me about Brad, I want all the history. I know a lot but I want to hear it from you".
> 
> Then report back with what she has to say and we'll advise you further.


Good idea. This way she has a chance to tell the truth.

If she knows it was from comments from this dude she may try to discredit him or limit things to trickle truth based on what she thinks this guys knows.

Indeed this guy may be lying. But it makes no sense to assume that yet.


----------



## Entropy3000

Starstarfish said:


> But if your basic assumption is that your spouse is lying about the number anyway (hence why you need to double it) - isn't that in and of itself a problem? I mean, do you also double other information they tell you like how much they spent yesterday? Is it just about sex, or does everything they tell you need to be second guessed?


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Cosmos

Has the OP been back?


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> Most valued possession? I dont want to jump all over every utterance. It shuts people down. I just wanted to let you know my reaction to this often held notion. maybe i am having a bad day but It pisses me off.
> 
> Maybe it mildly annoys other woman? My husband said something like this many times. I didnt respond as i am here because i think he should express himself freely in his own house with out me reacting to every word. He is a good man so it's all good. I have no doubt that you are a good man but I am in a fighting mood today.
> 
> I accept that these notions are part of the cultural fabric and are expressed unquestioned. Makes me feel like my ability or willingness to have sex is all I am. I have always thought of myself in more multifaceted terms and my value far beyond the sum total of sex parts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have no problem in saying that my wife giving herself to me completely means much to me. She was not a virgin mind you. In fact she had a child already.

But I place our sexual relationship very high. 

Many men want to feel special in this way. So like it or not it is important to many men. Remember sexual fullfilment is #1 for most men. They do not want to feel as just one of a 100 other guys, many of whom may be nameless. I am not ashamed by these feelings. many men want a wife who feels that sex is very special with them and not just a recreational event like dancing or having a drink. See if this is the case the wife may get bored. I mean was her sexual rush because it was sex with various people which can be very exciting, or was it because they had a deep bond with someone. I choose the deep bonding and understand a little bit of growing up.

friendship is important to me. A requirement. But in a marriage I want a lover first. I want that deep bond. Not just something we enjoy together like watching a movie.

Some men want something else. So back to compaibility.

I would expect women to be the same way frankly.
Many are not.

Yes. A sexual relationship to me from my wife is a gift. Hopefully a gift we give to each other but from a man's perspective it is very much part of the bond. I did not marry to just hang out with my best friend, though that is wonderful.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cosmos said:


> Has the OP been back?


No.

Do you think that indicates anything?


----------



## Cosmos

Catherine602 said:


> Most valued possession? I dont want to jump all over every utterance. It shuts people down. I just wanted to let you know my reaction to this often held notion. maybe i am having a bad day but It pisses me off.
> 
> Maybe it mildly annoys other woman? My husband said something like this many times. I didnt respond as i am here because i think he should express himself freely in his own house with out me reacting to every word. He is a good man so it's all good. I have no doubt that you are a good man but I am in a fighting mood today.
> 
> I accept that these notions are part of the cultural fabric and are expressed unquestioned. Makes me feel like my ability or willingness to have sex is all I am. I have always thought of myself in more multifaceted terms and my value far beyond the sum total of sex parts.
> 
> You probably had no idea I would take what you said that way because I am certain it is not what you meant. But that's what I think of when i see this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

I've always been _soooo _much more than a vagina. Remaining a virgin until marriage, then being highly selective in who I shared my body with post-divorce, had nothing to do with the value I placed on my vagina, but _everything_ to do with the value I placed on myself. Similarly, I only gravitated towards men who valued themselves and had been likewise selective...


----------



## Entropy3000

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I've always been _soooo _much more than a vagina. Remaining a virgin until marriage, then being highly selective in who I shared my body with post-divorce, had nothing to do with the value I placed on my vagina, but _everything_ to do with the value I placed on myself. Similarly, I only gravitated towards men who valued themselves and had been likewise selective...


And when I think of this it has nothing to do with a vagina and everything to do with what you are saying.

I of course would cherish any woman who I chose to be my wife. And sex would still be a gift.

However, let me say that the path you chose I would consider very much wonderful and when a woman does this and then shares herself with me I confess, I feel very very special. Does that make me a bad person? I think not. I appreciate the person for this.

I think as you say it goes both ways. 

Sex is not just about sexual organs. Our body is attached to our brains. They are part of us. 

You have great value for who you are. Your approach to how you deal with sexual relationships is very compatible with this.

This is not a put down to anyone else. It is merely saying I think you have a wonderful spirit. And when you give yourself to a man, you are giving so very much. Not just your body. You are giving of your self and whole spirit. Now that is sexy.

Also it may not be universal but many men are more devastated by a wifes PA than an EA for example. One can discuss the logic in this but this is how I would feel.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Catherine602 said:


> Most valued possession? I dont want to jump all over every utterance. It shuts people down. I just wanted to let you know my reaction to this often held notion. maybe i am having a bad day but It pisses me off.
> 
> Maybe it mildly annoys other woman? My husband said something like this many times. I didnt respond as i am here because i think he should express himself freely in his own house with out me reacting to every word. He is a good man so it's all good. I have no doubt that you are a good man but I am in a fighting mood today.
> 
> I accept that these notions are part of the cultural fabric and are expressed unquestioned. Makes me feel like my ability or willingness to have sex is all I am. I have always thought of myself in more multifaceted terms and my value far beyond the sum total of sex parts.
> 
> You probably had no idea I would take what you said that way because I am certain it is not what you meant. But that's what I think of when i see this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think what you are seeing is the extremely complicated interconnection between sex and love that many men have. Sex can be an isolated thing that is mainly physical. But for many men (and your husband sounds like he is one of them), sex in a long term relationship is the highest form of bonding. So his comments are likely not truly about your only value being your sexual organs, but rather about the importance and value of having sex with you within your relationship.

I know for me, I did not understand this until more recently. The importance of sex with my wife as a part of our bonding was not something I recognized right away, and even once I did, I had difficulty articulating it (still do, for that matter). But it is, to me, the most wonderful gift my wife can give me. Being my lover and sex partner are an incredible gift and perhaps the most important thing she does to show me how much she values me.

Once that realization occurs, it can be difficult to look back at past actions through that new lens without some judgment. I do try (with varying degrees of success) to recognize that just as I have changed, matured and grown through my experiences, so have others.


----------



## Entropy3000

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think what you are seeing is the extremely complicated interconnection between sex and love that many men have. Sex can be an isolated thing that is mainly physical. But for many men (and your husband sounds like he is one of them), sex in a long term relationship is the highest form of bonding. So his comments are likely not truly about your only value being your sexual organs, but rather about the importance and value of having sex with you within your relationship.
> 
> I know for me, I did not understand this until more recently. The importance of sex with my wife as a part of our bonding was not something I recognized right away, and even once I did, I had difficulty articulating it (still do, for that matter). But it is, to me, the most wonderful gift my wife can give me. Being my lover and sex partner are an incredible gift and perhaps the most important thing she does to show me how much she values me.
> 
> Once that realization occurs, it can be difficult to look back at past actions through that new lens without some judgment. I do try (with varying degrees of success) to recognize that just as I have changed, matured and grown through my experiences, so have others.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## talin

Cosmos said:


> Has the OP been back?





Entropy3000 said:


> No.
> 
> Do you think that indicates anything?


Some people have lives outside of their computers?


----------



## Hicks

A woman does not admit to her past, because she herself is ashamed of it. She is not afraid of being shamed, she is ashamed and therefore does not want to tell the man she values about it.

Society is actually telling her not to be ashamed of herself and to pursue as much sex as she wants prior to marriage. That's why women are having more premarital sex than in the past.

In the old days it was taboo... But why were the old rules around?

Were they so men could have pure women to marry?

Or were they based on the collective experience of humanity which knows that their marriages and ultimately their lives would be more fulfilling if they explore and develop their sexuality in the context of a loving, secure, committed marriage rather than a series of hookups with men who are receiving the ultimate gift yet giving nothing.


----------



## Entropy3000

talin said:


> Some people have lives outside of their computers?


But if one is asking for help with a critical marriage issue, what could be more important?

Nothing.


----------



## tulsy

AngryTony said:


> ...*got married a little over a year ago*....whirlwind romance....the ones for each other.
> 
> Now, I’m not so sure.


First problem, you jumped into marriage with someone you don't really know. Expect more "surprises" along the way.

She doesn't HAVE to reveal every detail of her past sexual exploits, HOWEVER, she should have told you about Brad. The fact that she didn't tell you this "neighbor" and her used to have a lot of anal....anyone would be upset to hear about this AFTER the fact, and from some drunk buddy of the guy at the party.

So he's been bragging to all his buddies about how he used to plow your wife's azz....some friend. 

He may have lied about how much they did or didn't do in the sack.

Still, your wife have a lot of explaining to do, and I probably wouldn't be comfortable hanging around these neighbors anymore.

Ask her how she would feel if one of the women in your circle used to ride you.

Smells like a troll.


----------



## talin

Entropy3000 said:


> But if one is asking for help with a critical marriage issue, what could be more important?
> 
> Nothing.


Nothing is more important to a person going through a critical marriage issue than immediately responding to a thread on a support message forum?

I can think of a few things.

- working (he last posted yesterday evening- entirely possible he has a day job)
- taking care of children
- consulting with legal professionals
- seeing a real life therapist
- getting out of the house and spending time with real life friends and family and getting their support and feedback


----------



## Caribbean Man

Catherine602 said:


> Most valued possession? I dont want to jump all over every utterance. It shuts people down. I just wanted to let you know my reaction to this often held notion. maybe i am having a bad day but It pisses me off.
> 
> Maybe it mildly annoys other woman? My husband said something like this many times. I didnt respond as i am here because i think he should express himself freely in his own house with out me reacting to every word. He is a good man so it's all good. I have no doubt that you are a good man but I am in a fighting mood today.
> 
> I accept that these notions are part of the cultural fabric and are expressed unquestioned. Makes me feel like my ability or willingness to have sex is all I am. I have always thought of myself in more multifaceted terms and my value far beyond the sum total of sex parts.
> 
> You probably had no idea I would take what you said that way because I am certain it is not what you meant. But that's what I think of when i see this.


Catherine, you always,
just make me smile...


----------



## norajane

Hicks said:


> In the old days it was taboo... But why were the old rules around?
> 
> Were they so men could have pure women to marry?


Yes. And so a man would feel confident that his new wife was having HIS baby.



> Or were they based on the collective experience of humanity which knows that their marriages and ultimately their lives would be more fulfilling if they explore and develop their sexuality in the context of a loving, secure, committed marriage rather than a series of hookups with men who are receiving the ultimate gift yet giving nothing.


If that were the case, the rules would have applied to men, too, not just women. But the rules only applied to women.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think what you are seeing is the extremely complicated interconnection between sex and love that many men have. Sex can be an isolated thing that is mainly physical. But for many men (and your husband sounds like he is one of them), sex in a long term relationship is the highest form of bonding. So his comments are likely not truly about your only value being your sexual organs, but rather about the importance and value of having sex with you within your relationship.
> 
> *I know for me, I did not understand this until more recently. The importance of sex with my wife as a part of our bonding was not something I recognized right away, and even once I did, I had difficulty articulating it (still do, for that matter). But it is, to me, the most wonderful gift my wife can give me. Being my lover and sex partner are an incredible gift and perhaps the most important thing she does to show me how much she values me.
> *
> Once that realization occurs, it can be difficult to look back at past actions through that new lens without some judgment. I do try (with varying degrees of success) to recognize that just as I have changed, matured and grown through my experiences, so have others.


:iagree:

I too , 
Only got that realization sometime after marriage..
That's why I always say here on TAM that sex whilst single and dating is vastly different from sex in marriage.
In fact, it can become so complicated sometimes that there is and entire sub forum on TAM dedicated to problems of sex in marriage.

Unlike what some people think, sex between committed people is not just a thing.
It is more than just a physical need.
It is a way they communicate on a deeper , intimate, level. The physical act in the past is not what worries men most, it is the bonding aspect that gives them jitters and makes them feel insecure.
They begin to question if what they feel with her is really * it*, and if they are _that_ special in her eyes.

Some couples are able to negotiate around those type of hurdles because he knows his wife loves him and will do anything to please him. She gives her all in every way to the marriage even though she may have been very sexually active in the past.
She owns her stuff and helps him move on by being the type of wife he dreamed of having.

But lying and having a false sense of entitlement messes everything up.


----------



## talin

Entropy3000 said:


> I did not call him a troll. You did.


No, I did not call him a troll. You are confusing me with another poster. Probably this one.



tulsy said:


> Smells like a troll.


I don't accuse people of being trolls like many others do on this forum. I find it to be counterproductive- if you think someone is trolling then don't add to it and feed the troll by posting to the thread. Make the moderators aware of your concerns and let them deal with it.


----------



## Kobo

Starstarfish said:


> But if your basic assumption is that your spouse is lying about the number anyway (hence why you need to double it) - isn't that in and of itself a problem? I mean, do you also double other information they tell you like how much they spent yesterday? Is it just about sex, or does everything they tell you need to be second guessed?


No, my assumption is that they omit not lie. LoL. Like I said not a big deal for me. I've climbed through too many windows to worry about a woman not telling me about the guy that got started but never finished or the friend that only got to lick it but not stick it.


----------



## Kobo

Entropy3000 said:


> The thing is that there is not much difference between 3 and 6 to me. I get it is to some folks.
> 
> But if they say 3 and then ... 3 more pop up, then all you know is that you cannot trust your wife. That sux.
> 
> Because if she will lie about this she will lie about a lot of other more important things. To assume I am not capable of handling the truth is judging me unfairly.


Sorry but too much social pressure is put on women in this area for me to be over judgmental if they hold back some truth. So yeah it sucks that she didn't give you the straight up truth but I highly doubt that my friend that gave me oral in her parents carport added me to her number.


----------



## treyvion

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> He does need to get to the bottom of this. While I agree that a person's sexual past shouldn't necessarily be held against them, if these allegations are true, the fact is the wife didn't really leave them in the past, did she? She brought them right up in to her present and allowed her husband to socialize with a man that she was more sexually adventurous with than him. *Without his knowledge.* It sounds like he was perfectly willing to let the past stay there, even if he was curious. But the fact is, he didn't go hunting for this info. He wasn't obsessing about it or ruining their relationship with constant questions and accusations about her past sexual exploits. This information fell right into his lap. And how did that happen, because his wife decided to invite a former lover into their social lives. That is a huge show of disrespect and dishonesty on her part.
> 
> Now, if it turns out that this info isn't true at all. Well, you have another set of problems. Why is someone trying to stir up trouble? Is Brad telling lies, or is the other so called friend trying to stir the pot? Either way, it sounds like you need to re-evaluate your social circle (and maybe your marital status).


She might not have known any better and looked at it as the guy from the past was her "friend". However it's never good practice to allow your significant other to be "triangulated", even if it is such a shared and shameful secret to the spouse. It's not shamed that she does it, it's shamed that the other guy "knows more" about his wife than he does, and he gets to look at the husband like "I f0cked her in the a$$" and the husband is sitting there like a blind sheep behind it all. Not good for him.

Now if the husband was alerted that someone from her past is in their vicinity, and that she did this thing with him - AND if the wife greeted the husband to the guy in the superior position and husband can be like "yeah, I know you did that - that was a long time ago, and she chose me".

But to play the husband as the fool is not good at all.


----------



## Entropy3000

Kobo said:


> Sorry but too much social pressure is put on women in this area for me to be over judgmental if they hold back some truth. So yeah it sucks that she didn't give you the straight up truth but I highly doubt that my friend that gave me oral in her parents carport added me to her number.


I am fine with you viewing this differently than I.

We are different on this.

As far as I know I have the straight up truth. No one really knows for sure. I just know she got the staright up truth from me. If I found out this was not the truth it would damage our relationship. The lying part. The rest I could give a flip about. But that is just me and what I value the most.


----------



## Entropy3000

treyvion said:


> She might not have known any better and looked at it as the guy from the past was her "friend". However it's never good practice to allow your significant other to be "triangulated", even if it is such a shared and shameful secret to the spouse. It's not shamed that she does it, it's shamed that the other guy "knows more" about his wife than he does, and he gets to look at the husband like "I f0cked her in the a$$" and the husband is sitting there like a blind sheep behind it all. Not good for him.
> 
> Now if the husband was alerted that someone from her past is in their vicinity, and that she did this thing with him - AND if the wife greeted the husband to the guy in the superior position and husband can be like "yeah, I know you did that - that was a long time ago, and she chose me".
> 
> *But to play the husband as the fool is not good at all.*


My wifes EX once said to me that my wife was used. This was over the phone or I would have put him in the hospital. But I calmly said, once you get past the used part she was all just mine. That pissed him off.

Crude? Sure but we are talking primal stuff here.


----------



## doubletrouble

It's kind of amusing to see TAMmers duke it out on a thread where the OP is AWOL.... 

Been there, done that......


----------



## doubletrouble

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> ...sex whilst single and dating is vastly different from sex in marriage.
> 
> Unlike what some people think, sex between committed people is not just a thing.
> It is more than just a physical need.
> It is a way they communicate on a deeper , intimate, level. The physical act in the past is not what worries men most, it is the bonding aspect that gives them jitters and makes them feel insecure.
> 
> Some couples are able to negotiate around those type of hurdles because he knows his wife loves him and will do anything to please him. She gives her all in every way to the marriage even though she may have been very sexually active in the past.
> She owns her stuff and helps him move on by being the type of wife he dreamed of having.
> 
> *But lying and having a false sense of entitlement messes everything up*.


:iagree: And for those reasons alone is why an affair screws up relationships as badly as it does.


----------



## talin

doubletrouble said:


> :iagree: And for those reasons alone is why an affair screws up relationships as badly as it does.


There's a lot more to it than that!


----------



## Catherine602

Entropy, Caribbean Man and Tall Average Guy i love what you said. It explains a lot to me. wish more people trying to deal with the same complexities of life could read the things you all and others shared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wiserforit

Hicks said:


> Were they so men could have pure women to marry?
> 
> Or were they based on the collective experience of humanity which knows that their marriages and ultimately their lives would be more fulfilling if they explore and develop their sexuality in the context of a loving, secure, committed marriage rather than a series of hookups with men who are receiving the ultimate gift yet giving nothing.


Oh Jesus H. Crickey what a load. Talk about putting the vagina on a pedestal. Our poor little lowly weiners... 

Historically, the lack of birth control, the horrific consequences of STD's prior to vaccinations/condoms, and the surety of who is the father were critical reasons for witholding sex until marriage.

But since marriage was occurring so close to puberty then, it wasn't much effort to be a virgin at marriage. Transferring that to modern times when marriages are occurring on average in their late 20's is absurd. It means something on the order of five or six times the number of years' a sexually mature person is retaining their virginity, ie marriage at 28 instead of 16. 

The irony of 14-16 year olds back then having all the sex they wanted and a woman roughly twice that age in modern times thinking herself "impure" if she has had any sex at all... what rubbish.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Catherine602 said:


> Entropy, Caribbean Man and Tall Average Guy i love what you said. It explains a lot to me. wish more people trying to deal with the same complexities of life could read the things you all and others shared.



Appreciate Catherine!

Like your posts today too!
I agreed with most of what you said anyway.


Take care!


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Well it's not about her past sexual history.
It's about you wanting to know who what when where and why so that you can function socially in your own community.
If she doesn't get this, then there is a serious issue with her PRESENT function with regards to a non-sexual aspect of the relationship, which is consideration for one's partner. 
You should be able to go to parties and so forth without having to be blindsided. Maybe she was just naive enough to think that what happened with her former partner/s was going to stay with her former partner/s. Personally I wouldn't have moved next to a former sex partner, or accepted an invite without discussing it with my H (if I had one, when I had one, etc.) But everyone's different...

But the current issue is that you feel uncomfortable and so now it's about how she's going to deal with that.


----------



## hambone

TRy said:


> Regardless about how you feel about a spouse's obligation to tell you of their past lovers, she has an obligation to tell you about past lovers that are in your social circle and that she see regularly. Even couples that are comfortable with their spouses having opposite sex friends usually have rules against staying in contact with past lovers. By keeping this a secret from you, you were not able to have the option to discuss such a rule concerning Brad. Also, the fact that she did not tell you, and that Brad also did not tell you, means that they together conspired to keep it a secret from you, thus you were played the fool where everyone else knows but you.
> 
> You need to evaluate if she really is good wife material. This indicates otherwise.


My wife has a rule.... When ever we are out... and I run into a girl I used to date. She want's to know immediately and exactly how far we went... She does NOT want to be blindsided by anyone.


----------



## Catherine602

Entropy3000 said:


> Note : OP has not come back and elaborated on the specifics of just how Brad became their neighbor.
> 
> I do find this very contrived as in Dear Penthouse. However, it is very plausible as well. In fact to one degree or another I venture to say that this is very common. Where a spouse keeps secret their EX lovers and keeps them in their lives.
> 
> Also we hear that many women keep this information a secret for whatever reason. So you know what? The discussion itself is still worth having.
> 
> We all deserve our freedoms. But others deserve the same. They are free to judge us any way they wish. Everything we do in life has consequences. Some folks are ok with some level of drug use. Perhaps they want someone into this to marry. If my wife kept this a secret from me I would feel the same way. It is part of our history. My arrest record matters. My education matters. It is all fair game.


You were a prisoner! I think your screen name should indicate your felonious past. 

I cannot imagine what lawless behavior got you thrown into the can. 

Of course I have no right to ask and you have no obligation to tell about your time on the chain gang. 

It's your business. But if you don't tell I am going to make up stuff and it won't be pretty. :2gunsfiring_v1:

Just kidding.


----------



## Catherine602

Wiserforit said:


> Oh Jesus H. Crickey what a load. Talk about putting the vagina on a pedestal. Our poor little lowly weiners...
> 
> Historically, the lack of birth control, the horrific consequences of STD's prior to vaccinations/condoms, and the surety of who is the father were critical reasons for witholding sex until marriage.
> 
> But since marriage was occurring so close to puberty then, it wasn't much effort to be a virgin at marriage. Transferring that to modern times when marriages are occurring on average in their late 20's is absurd. It means something on the order of five or six times the number of years' a sexually mature person is retaining their virginity, ie marriage at 28 instead of 16.
> 
> The irony of 14-16 year olds back then having all the sex they wanted and a woman roughly twice that age in modern times thinking herself "impure" if she has had any sex at all... what rubbish.


Now wait a minute. Let's not toss this truism away with the rest of the garbage.


----------



## Starstarfish

I've got to say - reading this thread makes me realize a formerly unrecognized perk to moving half way across the country. I had two partners before my husband (I regret both of them for various reasons, but the truth is what it is) - but, they live 12 hours away at this point. So - the chance of anyone seeing them again is likely exceedingly slim.


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> You were a prisoner! I think your screen name should indicate your felonious past.
> 
> I cannot imagine what lawless behavior got you thrown into the can.
> 
> Of course I have no right to ask and you have no obligation to tell about your time on the chain gang.
> 
> It's your business. But if you don't tell I am going to make up stuff and it won't be pretty. :2gunsfiring_v1:
> 
> Just kidding.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Wow, ok ok. 

You know I really was arrested once. Once. They dropped the charges though. Because it turns out I was within my rights. But I put a .357 in someones face and told them if they ever came around my family again I was going to take them off the board. I even told the police this. They said would you? I said I would. That when I did I would put my weapon down and tell them to pick me up. They kinda got the idea I was serious.

Long story short this was about my step daughter being beaten by her first husband. She was pregnant. She ended up in a shelter and left him. They were trying to bash my front door in so I met them on my front porch. It was not even her husband but his father.
We never heard from him again.

Oh and yeah she had a baby girl and the baby girl just gave birth to another wonderful girl.

So I know you were kidding but this was my brush with the law. Oh outside of all those speeding tickets anyway.


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> You were a prisoner! I think your screen name should indicate your felonious past.
> 
> I cannot imagine what lawless behavior got you thrown into the can.
> 
> Of course I have no right to ask and you have no obligation to tell about your time on the chain gang.
> 
> It's your business. But if you don't tell I am going to make up stuff and it won't be pretty. :2gunsfiring_v1:
> 
> Just kidding.


You are a treasure.


----------



## Anon Pink

Tall Average Guy said:


> Where are the absurd leaps and judgments in this thread? I reread the thread and have seen little or none in it.


Allow me....



Aug said:


> .
> 
> Get yourself and her tested for the full panel of STDs, Hep, HPV, etc...
> 
> Be prepared to shut this new marriage down quick. Better to divorce now than to continue a marriage this way and have your mind run wild wondering what she did and whether the next guy did anything with her. That's years of torture in your head to come.


And another....



MrK said:


> This post I once read on TAM has nothing to do with Brad and Sarah, directly, but it matters her in that...
> 
> oh, heck. It doesn't matter here at all, but I love this story.
> 
> Boy/girl meet after graduating from separate colleges, starting their professional careers. They marry. Soon thereafter, girl gets invited to her 5 year graduation get-together of her sorority sisters. Guy has work obligations. Can't go. Girl is all "oh, that's SO too bad. I really wanted you to meet everyone".
> 
> Couple weeks later, his work plans change and he can go. "GREAT NEWS HONEY!!!"...
> 
> Only he could sense it wasn't great news. Her demeanor changed pretty quickly. Long story short, they go, and after the frozen daqueries are flowing for a while and tongues loosen up, it comes out that his innocent little new wifey was the BJ queen of the local chapter of the tri-delts, or whoever they were. Seems like it was her hobby, and she enjoyed it.
> 
> Guys (gals too), you have every right to know your woman's past before you marry her. _*Throw in lies, and it's a deal breaker. *_OP, if she can sit down in the same room with you and a man she'd take up the Hershey Highway, *imagine what else there is.*


And again from MrK


MrK said:


> My good friend married a gal who, from an EARLY age, was VERY comfortable walking into a bar and walking out with multiple men for sex. All innocent fun. No business of his, right?


It is this kind of alarmist reaction and illogical leaps that perpetuate the double standard...that you failed to see!


----------



## Anon Pink

Wanting a Strong Marriage said:


> You write as if to encompass all men and all women in your assumptions about why women lie about and why men have issues with female sexuality. And I guess that's what I personally have a problem with. I can definitely agree with you that *some* men and women react this way. This particular instance could likely fall into that category...probably does. I'll give you that. I think that any person (man or woman) who lies about their past to avoid a problem in the relationship, really needs to evaluate what they are afraid of. And also, how about having enough self-control to not do things that you will be ashamed of in the future. That probably requires a little more self-awareness than some people have, though.


I'm not sure how you arrive to that conclusion so I simply suggest you read my post again paying particular attention the the word SOME.

Also, Don't mince my words. I am not advocating anyone lie, but I do not hold that refusing to answer is lying by omission. "Becky didn't want to give me details of her past..." She refused to answer. She did not lie. There is a difference. 

So poor Becky has gone from being called a liar to the town slVt all because she admitted to have more sexual experience than her husband AND some drunken asswipe at a party talked some trash about her. All sounds perfectly reasonable to me.


----------



## Anon Pink

norajane said:


> Yes. And so a man would feel confident that his new wife was having HIS baby.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol::lol::lol::lol:* Goodone Nora Jane!*
> 
> If that were the case, the rules would have applied to men, too, not just women. But the rules only applied to women.


:iagree::iagree:

Double standard.... Alive and well...


----------



## Anon Pink

Entropy3000 said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Wow, ok ok.
> 
> You know I really was arrested once. Once. They dropped the charges though. Because it turns out I was within my rights. But I put a .357 in someones face and told them if they ever came around my family again I was going to take them off the board. I even told the police this. They said would you? I said I would. That when I did I would put my weapon down and tell them to pick me up. They kinda got the idea I was serious.
> 
> Long story short this was about my step daughter being beaten by her first husband. She was pregnant. She ended up in a shelter and left him. They were trying to bash my front door in so I met them on my front porch. It was not even her husband but his father.
> We never heard from him again.
> 
> Oh and yeah she had a baby girl and the baby girl just gave birth to another wonderful girl.
> 
> So I know you were kidding but this was my brush with the law. Oh outside of all those speeding tickets anyway.


You now have my complete respect. Hats off to you sir! Though I may still disagree from time to time...


----------



## Entropy3000

Anon Pink said:


> You now have my complete respect. Hats off to you sir! Though I may still disagree from time to time...


Thank you Anon.

I really am the Dark Knight you know.

It is ok to disagree. What a boring world this would be otherwise.


----------



## Anon Pink

In that case I will give you CB and TAG leave to advise the pups... just don't allow the double standards to go unchallenged!
And Wiseforit... He made a great post in this thread! bravo man!


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Hicks said:


> A woman does not admit to her past, because she herself is ashamed of it. She is not afraid of being shamed, she is ashamed and therefore does not want to tell the man she values about it.
> 
> Society is actually telling her not to be ashamed of herself and to pursue as much sex as she wants prior to marriage. That's why women are having more premarital sex than in the past.
> 
> In the old days it was taboo... But why were the old rules around?
> 
> Were they so men could have pure women to marry?
> 
> Or were they based on the collective experience of humanity which knows that their marriages and ultimately their lives would be more fulfilling if they explore and develop their sexuality in the context of a loving, secure, committed marriage rather than a series of hookups with men who are receiving the ultimate gift yet giving nothing.


Interesting question.

I think from an evolutionary biology point of view every man is programmed to have sex with as much females as possible.

To prevent his chances being overruled by th.e Alfa Males, or also the Bad Boys in our days, the other males have interest in strict monogamy and no sex outside of marriage. Then they can with their own qualities, the Nice Guy, Money, Building etc. attract a female to procreate safely.


:scratchhead:


----------



## treyvion

See_Listen_Love said:


> Interesting question.
> 
> I think from an evolutionary biology point of view every man is programmed to have sex with as much females as possible.
> 
> To prevent his chances being overruled by th.e Alfa Males, or also the Bad Boys in our days, the other males have interest in strict monogamy and no sex outside of marriage. Then they can with their own qualities, the Nice Guy, Money, Building etc. attract a female to procreate safely.
> 
> 
> :scratchhead:


Well in reality the stable thing is a safe bet, but many are succeptable to fools gold, males and female alike. If Mr alpha brings in some heavy **** at a price of self disrespect and doesn't care for u what have u gained but getting some of your brains screwed out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Anon Pink said:


> It is this kind of alarmist reaction and illogical leaps that perpetuate the double standard...that you failed to see!


The marriage is only about a year old after a whirlwind romance. She should still be deeply in love with her husband and in the honeymoon stage.

You don't see or are not concerned with the lack of respect, the inconsideration, the disrespect already shown by the wife to the husband?

She should never had put her husband into that type of situation if she loved or respected him.


----------



## tryingtobebetter

See_Listen_Love said:


> Interesting question.
> 
> I think from an evolutionary biology point of view every man is programmed to have sex with as much females as possible.
> 
> To prevent his chances being overruled by th.e Alfa Males, or also the Bad Boys in our days, the other males have interest in strict monogamy and no sex outside of marriage. Then they can with their own qualities, the Nice Guy, Money, Building etc. attract a female to procreate safely.
> 
> 
> :scratchhead:


But we men are also programmed so that we do not want to raise other men's children.

So if women give in to our desires when we are young we reserve the right to complain about it when we are older and wiser?

Came across a nice quote the other day in another context but which perhaps applies here also.

'There is no solution to the problem because you cannot change human nature'


----------



## See_Listen_Love

Maybe on a procreation level there is no problem.


----------



## ClimbingTheWalls

aug said:


> She should never had put her husband into that type of situation if she loved or respected him.


She was supposed to foresee Brad's friend engaging her husband in discussions about back door action?


----------



## Kobo

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> She was supposed to foresee Brad's friend engaging her husband in discussions about back door action?


Yes


----------



## Tall Average Guy

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> She was supposed to foresee Brad's friend engaging her husband in discussions about back door action?


It is not just that. They were interacting with people who knew about the previous relationship. It is certainly foreseeable that others would talk about among themselves at a get together and that the OP could overhear it.


----------



## treyvion

Kobo said:


> Yes


Yes. Its not even that but to have the husband in the situation is not good. Husband comes away feeling a little less big headed not knowing why or as if he were mocked. Were saying don't do this to your relationship. partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kobo

Entropy3000 said:


> I am fine with you viewing this differently than I.
> 
> We are different on this.
> 
> As far as I know I have the straight up truth. No one really knows for sure. I just know she got the staright up truth from me. If I found out this was not the truth it would damage our relationship. The lying part. The rest I could give a flip about. But that is just me and what I value the most.


Agreed. Nothing wrong with disagreeing on an issue that has a ton of layers. In a perfect world a young lady could tell her man the full truth and he could take that information and process it without condemnation. You and I know that won't happen. It is what it is. I haven't found my wife to be untruthful in this area but I not foolish enough to believe that she could not have omitted a lover or 2 or 3 . Think about it from a ladies perspective. She's dating having her life experiences dealing with guys like me who are cool but really not interested in serious relationships. Then she meets the guy who she clicks with who is looking to be serious. Then the question comes, "How many guys have you been with?" She may have only had intercourse with 2 guys before him. Is that too many for him (We've seen that on TAM).Should she include the guy that f__gered her on spring break? The Italian guy she blew on a trip to Mallorca. How about the time with her roommate? They didn't use a dildo so no penetration, does that count? She gives 1 as the number, the other LTR she had. How can I blame her. So many cats including me in my twenties would say she's great but maybe not wife material if we got the entire truth. So she does what she has to do so that we (men) can see the woman she is today instead of the girl she was. 

I don't want to say holding back information is right and years ago my thoughts would be different but as I've gotten older and ran into or heard about some of the ladies that I've been with casually and seen the mothers and professionals they've become I can understand their dilemma with this issue.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Anon Pink said:


> In that case I will give you CB and TAG leave to advise the pups... *just don't allow the double standards to go unchallenged!*



I am a firm believer in self governance and personal responsibility.

I believe nobody owes me one sh!t, and that I am responsible for my decisions and actions , no matter what society says.

I sometimes do pro bono work at the prison facilities for juvenile youths in my country.
I cannot tell them about societies " double standards ", they already know it exist, they were born poor in a rich country.
I teach them to take personal responsibility for their actions, past and present.
I tell them that the crime they were found guilty of ,and doing time for was not the reason they were incarcerated, but a series or bad decisions throughout their lives that finally culminated in them being apprehended and incarcerated.

I tell them that the only guarantee they have of never coming back into the prison system again is not in blaming society or the so called double standards, but taking full responsibility for their actions in the past and deciding a new direction for their lives.

The same thing can and should be applied in the case.
We are all responsible for ourselves , whether a double standard exist or not.
Many, many, double standards exists on both sides of the gender divide.
There are no martyrs, really.

I am a firm believer in self governance and personal responsibility.


----------



## weightlifter

She is your wife. You should be able to simply ask her for anal if that is what you want as she should be able to ask you for doggie or scissors or 69 or whatever gets her off.


----------



## LostViking

Hey RDMU. When are you coming back to reply to these posts? 

Having a hard time climbing up from under your bridge?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> She was supposed to foresee Brad's friend engaging her husband in discussions about back door action?


Yes. because this was a secret she had with another man that her husband does not know and he is an active part of her life. Very very bad.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> I am a firm believer in self governance and personal responsibility.
> 
> I believe nobody owes me one sh!t, and that I am responsible for my decisions and actions , no matter what society says.
> 
> I sometimes do pro bono work at the prison facilities for juvenile youths in my country.
> I cannot tell them about societies " double standards ", they already know it exist, they were born poor in a rich country.
> I teach them to take personal responsibility for their actions, past and present.
> I tell them that the crime they were found guilty of ,and doing time for was not the reason they were incarcerated, but a series or bad decisions throughout their lives that finally culminated in them being apprehended and incarcerated.
> 
> I tell them that the only guarantee they have of never coming back into the prison system again is not in blaming society or the so called double standards, but taking full responsibility for their actions in the past and deciding a new direction for their lives.
> 
> The same thing can and should be applied in the case.
> We are all responsible for ourselves , whether a double standard exist or not.
> Many, many, double standards exists on both sides of the gender divide.
> There are no martyrs, really.
> 
> I am a firm believer in self governance and personal responsibility.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Agreed. While I have to cater to society as a citizen, society does not dictate to me how I think nor what my fundamental values are. I follow laws but be aware I choose what laws I will follow. If there is a law that says I have to abuse or msitreat someone, I refuse to follow that. Yes this happens in the world. I have my own moral code that is above and beyond any laws. My family is above my other priorities. Above my own life. I will cross a double white line to avoid hitting a child .... I have to choose an action when there is a conflict of interest.

I can have all the double standards I want. Though in this case I personally do not.

IF a double standard exists it may be many women who do not care about their husbands sexual past. So I say IF there is a double standard it may exist there. That it is not incumbant for a man to change his values ... for anyone. I suggest women think this through.

So while women do not want to be shamed, I do not think we should shame men for their value choices.

Sorry, some men I guess are more emotionally attached to this than some. This probably does not fit the false perception that all men are dogs and screw everything in sight. Some think for women to be equal they need to behave like this perception of men. 

But I do believe that seeking a compatible mate is the key. Lying about your past however defeats this by pretending to be someone you are not.


----------



## youkiddingme

Originally Posted by ClimbingTheWalls 
She was supposed to foresee Brad's friend engaging her husband in discussions about back door action?

That question misses the point entirely. She and her husband were personal friends and frequently in the presence of one of her former lovers. And she was keeping that a secret from her husband. That is the issue. She should have told her husband, whether or not there were any chance of anyone else ever telling him. He deserved to know and she with held it. Protecting herself and her former lover, and their secret past.... from the one that she claims to be in love with.


----------



## treyvion

youkiddingme said:


> Originally Posted by ClimbingTheWalls
> She was supposed to foresee Brad's friend engaging her husband in discussions about back door action?
> 
> That question misses the point entirely. She and her husband were personal friends and frequently in the presence of one of her former lovers. And she was keeping that a secret from her husband. That is the issue. She should have told her husband whether or not there were any chance of anyone else ever telling him. He deserved to know and she with held it. Protecting herself and her former lover, and their secret past.... from the one that she claims to be in love with.


It shrinks the husband in their presense and allows them to look down upon him. Not good.


----------



## Catherine602

LostViking said:


> Hey RDMU. When are you coming back to reply to these posts.
> 
> Having a hard time climbing up from under your bridge?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hit its head on a low beam, rolled down an embankment and is now lying face down in a stinking ditch. Always wonder what a troll wants to get out of the things they post or what they are like. I imagine this OP as a woman who feels powerless and angry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AngryTony

Hey every one. I'm exhausted and it's been a hell of a couple of days. Basically, I'm done. I'm finished. I'm getting out.

I just don't feel like getting into a blow by blow recap here but the jist is this. I was too embarrassed to say anything at first so I confided in my best friend, "Jason." Jason never really took to Becky from the get go and even warned me that he thought she was a party girl. Like an idiot I did not take his advice. Anyway, this time he said I should just come straight out and ask her. So I did. I think I caught her completely unawares because at first her response was to deny deny deny..and to act hurt. When I then said I'd go to Brad directly, the next day she changed her tune.

I got some completely lame ass story that sounded like it came straight out of some women's rag. She said she didn't tell me because it was in the past and not relevant to our marriage and that she knew I would "go ballistic" if she did so she kept the peace instead.

When I brought up all the kinky *hit she did with Brad but not me she gave me lines like it was a different time, different dynamic, she's in a different place now, blah blah blah.

She had the nerve to say that she wanted me to be "her last" and that I should feel special because of that.

I pretty well laughed in her face and said being last did not make me feel special - it made me feel like the idiot who fell for her lying *hit. My buddy Jason actually prepared me for this. He told me how some women will **** it up and go crazy with bad boys and then try to hoodwink a nice guy into marriage. I called her on all this. She didn't think I had it in me.

Anyway, like I said, I'm outta here. My father was smart enough to insist on a prenup so there will be no fall out - except for my pride.

I'm going to take Jason's advice and date arounda bit (a lot) - something I have not done enough of in my life. As he said, "you want to be the guy who has anal sex with the girl and move on, NOT the sucker she eventually tries to trick into marriage (and not offer anal sex to....)."

I know I'm angry. I always considered myself reasonably intelligent but clearly there was a major lapse in judgement on my part with "not quite wife material" Becky. To all of you who talked about judging and shaming and ****s, etc...I say, damn straight she should be judged - I judge her.

So the upshot is I hope to come out of this a stronger man. I know for a fact I will be entering future "relationships" waaaay differently. Guess what? I'm gonna try to be "Brad" for a change.


----------



## jaquen

Suspicious story is suspicious.


----------



## Shaggy

You should inform Brads wife if the details as well.

I agree with your reasoning here. She very obviously sees you as mr nice and reliable and dependable and not at all the kind of guy who inspires her darker passions.

The fact she kept Brad around socially is a humiliating slap in the face, doubly so if she was kinky with him. Kink takes a level of passion and trust and her refusal to share it to you, shows she doesn't think of you with those same passions.

Why stay with anyone who isn't passionate about you? Why be the safe guy for her when you can be the fun guy with another woman? A woman who will see you with the level of passion that makes her desire the wild stuff?


----------



## Starstarfish

So - the quest is now to make sure you leave a wake of women who "aren't quite wife material" for others. 

Makes sense to me.


----------



## AngryTony

Starstarfish said:


> So - the quest is now to make sure you leave a wake of women who "aren't quite wife material" for others.


Yes, actually. 

It'll be fun to be the "screw-er" and not the "screw-ee" for a change.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

AngryTony said:


> Yes, actually.
> 
> It'll be fun to be the "screw-er" and not the "screw-ee" for a change.


LOL. After you go out and have all this fun with these party girls, what's your plan after you're done? Look for a nice girl to settle down with because you will have known how little you can trust a party girl?


----------



## treyvion

AngryTony said:


> Yes, actually.
> 
> It'll be fun to be the "screw-er" and not the "screw-ee" for a change.


All you gotta do is go around and lay some pipe and act off instinct. Easy.


----------



## AngryTony

Plan 9 from OS said:


> LOL. After you go out and have all this fun with these party girls, what's your plan after you're done? Look for a nice girl to settle down with because you will have known how little you can trust a party girl?


Well, I have already learned, courtesy of Becky, how little I can trust a party girl.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to have fun with some party girls and experience the side of them when they do not see me as "nice guy husband material to be lied to."

I really would like to be the guy they get kinky with right away because it doesn't mean anything and I'm not special.


----------



## AngryTony

treyvion said:


> All you gotta do is go around and lay some pipe and act off instinct. Easy.


Probably not so easy.

All my life I've been pretty respectful of women and it resulted in modest results and my getting burned. So I know it won't be "easy" to "act off instinct." But I also understand that if I want different results I need different tactics.


----------



## Shaggy

You should read married mans sex life primer by Kay Athol


----------



## aug

When are you filing for divorce? Got a lawyer yet?

You seem to be able to move really quickly from being angry and upset to your next life. Did your love for your wife died overnight?


----------



## happyman64

And why do you want to model yourself off Brad?

If he was o terrific he would still be banging your wife's back door.

I think your reasoning is flawed but it is your life.....


----------



## AngryTony

aug said:


> When are you filing for divorce? Got a lawyer yet?
> 
> You seem to be able to move really quickly from being angry and upset to your next life. Did your love for your wife died overnight?


No, not yet. It'll take a few months to be all done. I'm not in law, but my family is, so I don't think it's going to be big issue.

As far as moving quickly, I view it more as trying to get into a better headspace. Yeah I'm angry, but so what? What is that going to achieve? Nothing. Hopefully, I will have learned from my mistakes and will not repeat them. As far as love for Becky, how can I have love for a witch who had a kinky thing with my neighbor - a neighbor I used to hang with - and I was kept in the dark - and others knew about it - and I was made a fool of - and so on and so on.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

AngryTony said:


> Well, I have already learned, courtesy of Becky, how little I can trust a party girl.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to have fun with some party girls and experience the side of them when they do not see me as "nice guy husband material to be lied to."
> 
> I really would like to be the guy they get kinky with right away because it doesn't mean anything and I'm not special.


OK, I get it. But you do realize that you will be traveling down the road of hypocrisy. Because you failed to do your due diligence in picking out a proper spouse for yourself, your plan is to turn around and then go find a lot of party girls to get crazy with. So after you're tired of that lifestyle, you will want to settle down. So who do you start looking for? The nice girls. 

So you end up meeting a great girl that is more than happy to give herself to you completely because she loves you. So what do you tell her if/when she inquires about your past? Do you confess right away that you ripped off a 10 girl run where you had no strings attached sex doing all sorts of kinky things? If you follow your own plan you will basically turn yourself into a male version of a "Becky". 

I find the hypocrisy in this thread pretty amazing. You have a number of people chiming in about how that "wh0re" Becky "wronged" you by being a party girl with the "bad boys" and then settling down with a nice guy like you. Then the same people are applauding your plan to go on your own ass banging journey by seeking out party girls to have hot monkey sex with. Except you will get married again in the future, and what type of girl will you seek out? That's right, the "marrying kind" aka "the nice girl"... :rofl:


----------



## weightlifter

Wait. She has not cheated? Im confuzzled. This is not cheating but lack of disclosure of pre-relationship past?

And RDMU is not a troll. Just because there is not a play by play end does not make a troll.


----------



## AngryTony

happyman64 said:


> If he was o terrific he would still be banging your wife's back door.
> 
> I think your reasoning is flawed but it is your life.....



With respect, I think YOUR reasoning is flawed. 

The fact is Brad got anal with her. I, her husband, did not. Brad behaved in some way that led to dear Becky going for it. 

Clearly obviously, I did not have the same skill set.

As I've previously stated, in the future, I want to be "Brad" and enjoy how the other half "does it."


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

weightlifter said:


> Wait. She has not cheated? Im confuzzled. This is not cheating but lack of disclosure of pre-relationship past?


Yep. Afraid so.


----------



## Shaggy

So what's the deal with you living near Brad and being social with him?

That's a big part of why this situation is very nasty.


----------



## AngryTony

Plan 9 from OS said:


> you failed to do your due diligence in picking out a proper spouse for


Yes, I failed and I'm man enough to admit it.

Her past was important to me and when she didn't want to get into it, I let it slide. Mistake. Big mistake. MY big mistake.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

weightlifter said:


> Wait. She has not cheated? Im confuzzled. This is not cheating but lack of disclosure of pre-relationship past?
> 
> And RDMU is not a troll. Just because there is not a play by play end does not make a troll.


Actually non disclosure, non performance, rubbing his nose in it, keeping him in the dark while everyone else knew and was laughing behind his back. Parading him in front of everyone when unknown to him he was being made a fool.


----------



## tom67

Go over and tell Brad's wife with Brad there


----------



## weightlifter

Edit dont want to offend Tony. Unsubbing.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

...


----------



## weightlifter

WOM. OK. I have offended where I should not. I will edit. I ask the same of you so he need not see it and I will exit this thread.


----------



## Catherine602

There you are. I was worried, i thought you suffered a head injury or worse. What a story! It has even has all of the names. 

Anyway, that was easy for you. In love one minute and a party boy the next. You got confidence very quickly. Not bothered by being blindsided by a woman you were in love with not one month ago? 

You dont need to process your feelings? Well racking up numbers should make you feel better. 

Good idea about having anal sex with random women. That's the way to get back at your soon to be ex and all women. Have fun selecting from among the legions of women who will present themselves for inspection. 

Don't you think you should take a month before you wade into the sexbots? They're not going anywhere, that's what they do, wait around to service men after failed relationships. 

At any rate, be careful, don't catch anything. Work on your attitude towards women too. Eventually you are likely to get exactly what you give, used once again.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actually non disclosure, non performance, rubbing his nose in it, keeping him in the dark while everyone else knew and was laughing behind his back. Parading him in front of everyone when unknown to him he was being made a fool.


I understand your points and I think his wife did him wrong. But she's definitely not 100% to blame for this. The OP should have known better. Hell, he had strong suspicions that she was a party girl. He stupidly let that go and ignored it. The fact that he accepted her non-answers and married her despite not knowing what went on was his seal of approval for her past. Sure, the fact that she did things with Brad and not him sucks. But you know what, those two should not get divorced. The OP should work it out with his wife. She never cheated on him. He never insisted on getting the answers. She did him wrong by not telling him about Brad and having them live next door to him.

But you know what? The OP needs to act like a man. He accepted his wife as the person she is by not following up on his instincts. He owns this now. Man up and make the marriage work. Move to another town, move to the other side of the neighborhood. But he puts WAY too much responsibility for this mess on her shoulders.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I'd probably give her a chance to make it right, but it doesn't sound like she's trying to do that very hard.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'd probably give her a chance to make it right, but it doesn't sound like she's trying to do that very hard.


We actually know very little since the OP won't elaborate on that. Rather surprising that he is divorcing so quickly and is looking for the next party girl to come down the pike for some good old fashioned butt seks...

Kinda reminds me of those threads where the H finds out W is cheating on some morning, has his lawyer consultation at noon and has his wife served and moved out by the evening...


----------



## Shaggy

WorkingOnMe said:


> I'd probably give her a chance to make it right, but it doesn't sound like she's trying to do that very hard.


I think she basic told him , brad interested her in ways tony never would and that tony should be thrilled that she chose him to be the guy she would be with now, and that he could forget any of that wild stuff she did with Brad - stuff that was so wild and went on so long that it was common knowledge in her social group.

So clearly it isn't a case if her having done stuff she didn't like or was forced into, since everyone on the social group knew of it, clearly it was part of her public persona.

The thing was that Tony isn't being invited to join the party, that was special for her and Brad.

Look, the OP is clearly being told she isn't that into him. He didn't know it for a long time, but having him socialize with her ex lover shows how little she values him. She chose to keep Brad nod the others who knew of her exploits around, while keeping her husband in the dark.


----------



## zookeeper

You're probably both better off. It sure looks to me that you are more upset by the fact that this guy got anal from her than that she didn't tell you about it. Some men cannot reconcile being married to a woman who is more sexually experienced than them. This would have likely eaten at you over time and destroyed the relationship anyway.

While I too would find it humiliating to have been social with someone my wife had been sexually active with and not known, I don't think I would jump to divorce so quickly. My wife took a while to disclose her past, largely due to her fear that she would be judged harshly for it. I never asked her specifically, she eventually volunteered after we were dating for a while because the trust had developed. Actually, I dont really need my wife to tell me about previous sex partners in our social cirle. I trust her to prevent any such men from being in our social circle in the first place. I do the same. Her past has made her who she is today. I don't hold it against her. Then again, I am confident that here are no gang-bangs or other crazy stuff lurking there. 

I wish you good luck, but I think you are headed down the wrong path. This would be a good time for reflection and self-discovery.


----------



## treyvion

Shaggy said:


> I think she basic told him , brad interested her in ways tony never would and that tony should be thrilled that she chose him to be the guy she would be with now, and that he could forget any of that wild stuff she did with Brad - stuff that was so wild and went on so long that it was common knowledge in her social group.
> 
> So clearly it isn't a case if her having done stuff she didn't like or was forced into, since everyone on the social group knew of it, clearly it was part of her public persona.
> 
> The thing was that Tony isn't being invited to join the party, that was special for her and Brad.
> 
> Look, the OP is clearly being told she isn't that into him. He didn't know it for a long time, but having him socialize with her ex lover shows how little she values him. She chose to keep Brad nod the others who knew of her exploits around, while keeping her husband in the dark.


Bingo.


----------



## RandomDude

So you live next door to a man who rammed your wife's back door? Now that's gotta suck... hell it's probably worse then having your in-laws next door. 

I would be pretty p-ssed about the nondisclosure myself as well, but you know yourself that it is your fault for letting it slide. Do what you have to do mate.


----------



## RClawson

I do not blame you for being pissed off Tony. Your story is a bit of a trigger for me. I do believe your ideas for the future are pretty juvenile and if you follow through you will regret it.

I have an idea? Why don't you move on and be a man about it. Find a good women and get to know her before you ask her for her ring size.


----------



## RClawson

I do not blame you for being pissed off Tony. Your story is a bit of a trigger for me. I do believe your ideas for the future are pretty juvenile and if you follow through you will regret it.

I have an idea? Why don't you move on and be a man about it. Find a good women and get to know her before you ask her for her ring size.


----------



## RClawson

I do not blame you for being pissed off Tony. Your story is a bit of a trigger for me. I do believe your ideas for the future are pretty juvenile and if you follow through you will regret it.

I have an idea? Why don't you move on and be a man about it. Find a good women and get to know her before you ask her for her ring size.


----------



## tryingtobebetter

OP

I advise you to calm down. At present you are angry and therefore incapable of thinking straight. You are naturally very upset by recent revelations but until you are in a much more rational state of mind you should make no long-term decisions.

You should not rush in to marriage but neither, generally, should you rush out of it.


----------



## Madman1

Shaggy said:


> You should read married mans sex life primer by Kay Athol


YEP this book has answers for you, you will be glad you read it!


----------



## Cosmos

AngryTony said:


> Yes, actually.
> 
> It'll be fun to be the "screw-er" and not the "screw-ee" for a change.


Ahhh... So you're going to become the party boy that one day some nice girl will have to trust? 

I understand how hurt you're feeling, Tony, but I really don't believe that this is the answer to your problem.


----------



## Starstarfish

Indeed, so - are you planning a full disclosure complete with names and dates (as others have suggested) to any future long-term partner following this sexcapade you are planning on going on?

Will you be willing to be outed for "non performance" if the new Mrs. finds out about all of the freaky things you did with whoever whenever but you "aren't into that now?" If she finds out an ex once got you into pegging can she demand you "get the lube out tonight?"

Are you going to move after you've banged half the town so the future Mrs never has to run into any of the chicks you've slept with?

See - I agree with Entropy, a person can have any standards they want to in a partner whether or not that's "judging" - that's their right. But - it doesn't change the fact that if you have different standards for others than you have for yourself - yeah, that still makes you a hypocrite.


----------



## Stratman

AngryTony said:


> No, not yet. It'll take a few months to be all done. I'm not in law, but my family is, so I don't think it's going to be big issue.
> 
> As far as moving quickly, I view it more as trying to get into a better headspace. Yeah I'm angry, but so what? What is that going to achieve? Nothing. Hopefully, I will have learned from my mistakes and will not repeat them. As far as love for Becky, how can I have love for a witch who had a kinky thing with my neighbor - a neighbor I used to hang with - and I was kept in the dark - and others knew about it - and I was made a fool of - and so on and so on.


Despite my anti jealousy rant on another thread, I'm going to say that I sympathize with your position.
Sounds like this girl had no strings attached sex with the neighbor. It was a harsh way to find out.

If you really love this girl, you could look at it this way. Woman have one stands or unattached sex just like men do. This doesn't make them dirty or unclean, just as it doesn't make men dirty or unclean. Unfortunately, one of her past encounters is living next door, and this is something she should have come clean about and taken appropriate action, such as move away from the neighbor. If you want to save this marriage, that's what you'd both have to do. Together with a full acceptance of each others past.

If you can't or don't want to do that, fair enough. Move on. But if you're missing out on a loving, dedicated woman that might come back to haunt you one day. 

You seem to be focusing on the sex act. Sex is sex, whatever happened. It sounds to me that she associates this particular act with a lack of intimacy and love, which is why she would not want to do it with you. I'd focus more on the fact that she gave you her heart (if that is truly the case), as opposed to just anal sex. 

I wouldn't try and deal with this with one night stands, that will affect your chances of intimacy in the future.


----------



## Kobo

So how did you end up living next to "Brad"?


----------



## tulsy

aug said:


> When are you filing for divorce? Got a lawyer yet?
> 
> You seem to be able to move really quickly from being angry and upset to your next life. Did your love for your wife died overnight?


Right??? 0-100MPH in 3 posts flat!

So all of a sudden? How old is OP again?


----------



## AngryTony

Cosmos said:


> Ahhh... So you're going to become the party boy that one day some nice girl will have to trust?



Yes. 

Like I said before, for a change, I'd like to experience how the other half lives.


----------



## AngryTony

Starstarfish said:


> it doesn't change the fact that if you have different standards for others than you have for yourself - yeah, that still makes you a hypocrite.


I admit it, yes. I will be a hypocrite. So what? I was the nice guy foir a long time. I don't want to be that anymore.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Anyone want to take bets on Tony coming back in 12 years complaining about how his new wife is LD and they never have sex?

You want a wh0re in the bedroom and a lady in the parlor. And you are ready to toss it all away because of ONE GUY.

Wow. Go find your pure, uptight chick who has sex with you like a bunny rabbit until you get married, then watch it disappear.


----------



## AngryTony

Stratman said:


> Sex is sex, whatever happened. It sounds to me that she associates this particular act with a lack of intimacy and love, which is why she would not want to do it with you. I'd focus more on the fact that she gave you her heart (if that is truly the case), as opposed to just anal sex.



With respect, I disagree completely.

To me this sounds like contrived feminist bull crap.

So she'll go crazy wild with a guy because there was no love or intimacy BUT she won't go wild and crazy with her husband because there IS love and intimacy. 

Again, with respect, but his comes across as delusional.

It is also a terrible message to send to men in general. Don't ever get lovey dovey if you want wild sex.

As my best friend said, this entire "man up and marry the former *lut" is feminism's way of trying to ensure referenced *luts having a happy ending at the expense of nice guys.

I just refuse to be such a nice guy any more.


----------



## AngryTony

EnjoliWoman said:


> Go find your pure, uptight chick who has sex with you like a bunny rabbit until you get married, then watch it disappear.


I never said I wanted a pure uptight chick.

I said I now wanted to party with party girls.

You should consider basing your comments on actual facts.


----------



## RandomDude

Heh your username suits you perfectly

I reckon you should calm down before making any rash decisions however, you will live to regret them if you're not thinking straight.

Out of curiouscity though, I, like Kobo, wonder how you ended up living next door to a man who ploughed your wife?


----------



## Michie

Brad was your wife's past. You are her present and future.

Does Becky blame and guilt you for having a life before her?

PS If your wife says no to anal with you its likely because she DID NOT enjoy and does not desire it.


----------



## RandomDude

Well, my STBX never really liked anal compared to regular sex, however she still offered it to me. So that's not really an excuse.

HOWEVER, it could be possible that OP's wife suffered injuries up there due to her past experiences. I reckon the communication channels between Mr. Tony and his wife needs to be fully open with full transparency if this marriage is to survive this.

Now Mr. Tony, we all know how you feel, but have you even talked to your wife about this? Or are you deciding straight away you're going to play 'bad boy' to make yourself feel better?


----------



## tulsy

AngryTony said:


> ...
> So she'll go crazy wild with a guy because there was no love or intimacy BUT she won't go wild and crazy with her husband because there IS love and intimacy. ....


I can see how that would piss you off. I totally get that.

Still, I think the bigger problem was her keep that from you, introducing that guy as a "friend", not a former lover, and having you hanging around this crew of people who all knew what went down....except you of course.

I would be extremely upset about that. To the point where I would question what else I don't know. All of this should be disclosed before you hear it through the grapevine. 

This is why the "whirlwind" romance is a really dumb way to get married. Marriage should be something you do after a prolonged dating period with someone. If you are now going to go back to being single and dating, don't even think about marriage again....not for a very long time.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Michie said:


> Brad was your wife's past. You are her present and future.
> 
> Does Becky blame and guilt you for having a life before her?
> 
> PS If your wife says no to anal with you its likely because she DID NOT enjoy and does not desire it.


Nope. It's because she's hot for Brad and not for her nice guy husband. Saving anal as sacred between her and brad shows that she's not into her husband sexually.


----------



## RandomDude

You'd better hope you signed a prenup Mr Tony!


----------



## tulsy

WorkingOnMe said:


> Nope. It's because she's hot for Brad and not for her nice guy husband. Saving anal as sacred between her and brad shows that she's not into her husband sexually.


I sorta get that impression too. I think most women have to be REALLY turned on by a guy to do this....not all, but most. Some just won't go there at all, ever....but she's NOT one of those women.

I think that must be how OP is feeling, hence the quest to become "the bad boy" now. I don't blame him for saying that stuff....this is a pretty new revelation and he must be raw and upset.

Obviously, any husband WANTS to be able to make his wife HAWT for him....and knowing she was hot enough for Brad the neighbor, but not hot enough for him? That is very crushing.

It's a hard pill to swallow....thinking she found Brad more sexually exciting than him, which is how OP must be feeling.


----------



## Madman1

Tony,
Many posters will tell you after infidelity to enjoy yourself with a woman as long as you both know the score (but don't be the om).

I have no idea why some here are bad mouthing you for wanting to get laid, its part of life, people need to grow up.

That was a GIANT DIS for your wife to include Brad (a pox upon that name) so closely in your lives, and a clear future problem when she gets a little bored, I don't blame you for cutting your losses and moving on. Thanks god you did not have kids with this woman.

SO yeah no shjt, have fun, you deserve it!


----------



## RandomDude

I do sincerely hope that he does calm down however.

Nice guys don't just become some "bad boy" overnight and quite frankly it often ends up with humorous results with him trying to be somebody he's not, and with everyone who knows him just shaking their heads knowing it's "just not Tony!"

So AngryTony save yourself the embarrassment mate
Or further embarrassment...


----------



## Madman1

Yeah Dude I get that, I think his head will clear, and he will end up being himself but a bit more available, probably fall for a few.

I think he will be ok, just have his eyes open now, it happened to me.

Respect and trust (not blindly of course), but if she is horny and wants to get laid then I'm the plumber


----------



## FlyingThePhoenix

AngryTony said:


> Yes.
> 
> Like I said before, for a change, I'd like to experience how the other half lives.





AngryTony said:


> I never said I wanted a pure uptight chick.
> 
> I said I now wanted to party with party girls.
> 
> You should consider basing your comments on actual facts.


So instead of taking the *(2)* HIGH road and getting on with your life and find a woman you have a real connection with, you're planning on taking the same road as your STBXW DID! The LOW road! *(1)* Then I suggest you be VERY careful, you might actually like how the other half lives and there goes your morals. You know, the morals your friends/family/work colleagues know you have, BUT, are about to throw them into the gutter, for what, to see how the other half lives??? 

So, which are YOU?

*(1)* *"Two wrongs make a right”? = I’ve lost my morals!*
*(2)* *“Two wrongs DON'T make a right” = My morals are*_ *intact!*_

Your wife had her faults 50% you have yours 50% = 100%. Your relationship/marriage was doomed to failure the first day you met each other, why? Because without REAL communication between each other, there is no REAL connection between each other; both of you had NONE! 

*Again, which one are YOU? (1) or (2) *


----------



## Cosmos

> Originally Posted by Cosmos View Post
> Ahhh... So you're going to become the party boy that one day some nice girl will have to trust?





AngryTony said:


> Yes.
> 
> Like I said before, for a change, I'd like to experience how the other half lives.


OK. Good luck with that one.

I don't think I have anything more to contribute to this thread.


----------



## Entropy3000

EnjoliWoman said:


> Anyone want to take bets on Tony coming back in 12 years complaining about how his new wife is LD and they never have sex?
> 
> You want a wh0re in the bedroom and a lady in the parlor. And you are ready to toss it all away because of ONE GUY.
> 
> Wow. Go find your pure, uptight chick who has sex with you like a bunny rabbit until you get married, then watch it disappear.


Sorry. Just no. You do not have to marry a party girl to have great married sex. In fact many highly experienced people with lots of partners and experimentation are less sexual in that it is like going bowling for them. It is just sex. Where as others may actually put a higher value on this and bat your balls out of the park. All being a party girl prepares one for is being a party girl. Can one learn from that ... sure. But one does not have to settle.

Yes indeed no reason why a husband cannot be choosy and have a lady on the street and a freak in the bed. They are NOT mutually exclusive. Give me a woman who really values sex in a monogamous relationship. Rock her world. 

Let's leave the Madonna Wh0re out of this. It is not a choice. Considering a man only needs to marry one woman it is not that difficult to find someone like this.


----------



## Entropy3000

Stratman said:


> Despite my anti jealousy rant on another thread, I'm going to say that I sympathize with your position.
> Sounds like this girl had no strings attached sex with the neighbor. It was a harsh way to find out.
> 
> If you really love this girl, you could look at it this way. Woman have one stands or unattached sex just like men do. This doesn't make them dirty or unclean, just as it doesn't make men dirty or unclean. Unfortunately, one of her past encounters is living next door, and this is something she should have come clean about and taken appropriate action, such as move away from the neighbor. If you want to save this marriage, that's what you'd both have to do. Together with a full acceptance of each others past.
> 
> If you can't or don't want to do that, fair enough. Move on. But if you're missing out on a loving, dedicated woman that might come back to haunt you one day.
> 
> You seem to be focusing on the sex act. *Sex is sex, *whatever happened. It sounds to me that she associates this particular act with a lack of intimacy and love, which is why she would not want to do it with you. I'd focus more on the fact that she gave you her heart (if that is truly the case), as opposed to just anal sex.
> 
> I wouldn't try and deal with this with one night stands, that will affect your chances of intimacy in the future.


This is your value judgment. To many of us sex is not just sex. In fact some of us HD people value it more than those who see it is as having a cup of coffee. I am a very HD person and sex is not just sex to me. Sex is not masturbation in a vagina. Sex is not just getting your rocks off physically.

But indeed this IS a personal value judgement. How about we do not shame people who have a higher set of values for their life. This has nothing to do with morallity. It has eveything to do with mind blowing awesome sex with a woman you are really into emotionally as well as physically. I did not marry a sex toy. If that is all I wanted I could have kept doing what I was doing. It was not good enough for me. YMMV.


----------



## jaquen

AngryTony said:


> With respect, I disagree completely.
> 
> To me this sounds like contrived feminist bull crap.
> 
> So she'll go crazy wild with a guy because there was no love or intimacy BUT she won't go wild and crazy with her husband because there IS love and intimacy.
> 
> Again, with respect, but his comes across as delusional.
> 
> It is also a terrible message to send to men in general. Don't ever get lovey dovey if you want wild sex.
> 
> As my best friend said, this entire "man up and marry the former *lut" is feminism's way of trying to ensure referenced *luts having a happy ending at the expense of nice guys.
> 
> I just refuse to be such a nice guy any more.


Love how calm, collected, and unemotional you are for a guy who apparently is about to divorce the love his life.

And no anger toward "Brad"? How noble! I guess you're just being very neighborly?

And you've shed your "nice guy" personality in a matter of days, if not hours! From a loving, committed husband to a skirt chasing, anal sex having stud, almost overnight! A true, blue, damn near miraculous NMMNG turn around!

You are quite the miracle! Some would say almost...impossible. Congratulations!

:smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

WorkingOnMe said:


> Nope. It's because she's hot for Brad and not for her nice guy husband. Saving anal as sacred between her and brad shows that she's not into her husband sexually.


She settled for her nice guy. He meets some other needs.

Like I always say these are my priorities :

1) My wifes exclusive lover

2) My wifes best male friend ( she is my best friend period )

3) To be her husband and father of our children

I need all of these, but I absolutely insist on #1. I will be second to no man on this freaking planet as far as this goes. Delusional? Not at all. I rock her world and because of my connection with her I am the best for this woman and she is the best for me. It is called married sex. I have had plenty of the other and I will take this hands down. If a man does not think he is number one he needs to step away. This is not the woman for him then.

I refuse to be the Nice Guy. I used to think I was. However after being on this forum I can see that no I was indeed a good guy and that I was the bad boy that my wife was able to land. 

Sorry folks there is no reason a man needs to settle when it comes to his wife. There is no PC manual or trendy thinking or other agenda that could strip a real man of his right to select his wife. Women have the same right. I am NOT putting anyone down. But I am defending those who would dare think differently than this group think.

I could care less how much sex anyone else has. But in no way am I buying anything about a man choosing a wife based on her abundant and varied sexual experience and technique. If I wanted that I would have married that French hooker. I have had plenty of my own experience. I would advise men to pick a compatible woman who has a history of fidelity and who is good in bed with him before he ties the knot.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Angry Dude...if this story is real, you have a lot more to learn about women before you are going to get to go bang them all.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> * I did not marry a sex toy. If that is all I wanted I could have kept doing what I was doing. It was not good enough for me. YMMV.*


:iagree:

And ain't nothing wrong with that.
It all comes down to what YOU want in your life and the sacrifices you are prepared to make to get it.

If another man wants to settle for what_ he_ thinks is best for him, then he has every right to do so.
In the end we all either live " happily ever after " with our choices or head to the divorce courts.


----------



## Jellybeans

Only read the first post in this thread from OP.

OP--it's wrong that she was hanging out with Brad at his house with you while never telling you that they had a past relationship, especially sexual.



I would feel upset by this too. She purposely decided not to tell you. 

Whirlwind romances, as you described, as so fun but they are clouded with infatuation. How long did you date before you got married to Becky? 

Well... all you can do is work with the info you have now. Tell her you feel disrespected by her not telling you this.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And ain't nothing wrong with that.
> It all comes down to what YOU want in your life and the sacrifices you are prepared to make to get it.
> 
> If another man wants to settle for what_ he_ thinks is best for him, then he has every right to do so.
> In the end we all either live " happily ever after " with our choices or head to the divorce courts.


Agreed. I am not preaching here about what others may or may not value. That is a personal choice. I am arguing that we need to stop shaming and judging both men and women that have a different set of values. In no way am I putting down those who have different values and needs. That is their business and not mine.

But when I see people piling on and putting down others who I think show high value am going to speak up. 

I think this story is very contrived but it brings up issues that are dealt with in all of our marriages to one extent or the other. 

Excuse me for calling out a name here. I really dig where Cosmos is on this stuff. This is where I am coming from.

BUT I am not saying others are wrong. But it bothers me when women are put down here. Calling them uptight chicks. Ok, Ok, in many cases this is acurrate and I agree. But not all women who pass on ONSs and so on are uptight chicks. many of them are indeed HD.

THIS offends me more than what is said about guys. Guys can man up and make their own choice, but I am tired of the put downs for the women who choose their own way. I support them in what ever they choose. It is their life and their choice. But I lost out because I was being a man wh0re myself. I do not have a double standard here. But I ended up finding a wonderful woman anyway. She knew everything before we married and she saw enough in me to overlook many things.


----------



## Jellybeans

Okaaay. Read more of OP's post. AngryTony, sounds like you are more upset that your wife had anal sex with someone else than the fact that she LIED about (ommitted) the fact that she had a relationship with "Brad the Neighbor." 

So... I am curious--how did you guys end up living next to Brad? Does Brad's wife know that Brad and Becky had a thing?


----------



## Jellybeans

How long did you date Becky before popping the question? 

How old are you guys? In your twenties?


----------



## Kobo

Jellybeans said:


> So... I am curious--how did you guys end up living next to Brad? Does Brad's wife know that Brad and Becky had a thing?


Very good questions. My guess is that Angry Tony's next post will have him walking into his lawyer's office where "Sarah", "Brad", "Becky" and his lawyer are having a tantric sex session.


----------



## Kimberley17

AngryTony said:


> With respect, I disagree completely.
> 
> To me this sounds like contrived feminist bull crap.
> 
> So she'll go crazy wild with a guy because there was no love or intimacy BUT she won't go wild and crazy with her husband because there IS love and intimacy.
> 
> Again, with respect, but his comes across as delusional.
> 
> It is also a terrible message to send to men in general. Don't ever get lovey dovey if you want wild sex.
> 
> As my best friend said, this entire "man up and marry the former *lut" is feminism's way of trying to ensure referenced *luts having a happy ending at the expense of nice guys.
> 
> I just refuse to be such a nice guy any more.


I'm confused as to why she's being called a "****" because she had anal sex previously? And just bcause they had anal that means they had kinky wild sex? Maybe she didn't like it and that's why she doesn't want to do it again ever think of that? I can understand why you are so hurt and insulted but I totally think you are overreacting to divorce her. She was wrong not to tell you to have him in your life. I guess it really is a tough situation. Didn't she fear you'd find out? How did they end up living next to you? Does his wife know?


----------



## Jellybeans

Kobo said:


> Very good questions. My guess is that Angry Tony's next post will have him walking into his lawyer's office where "Sarah", "Brad", "Becky" and his lawyer are having a tantric sex session.


Oh is it a troll?


----------



## happyman64

AngryTony said:


> With respect, I think YOUR reasoning is flawed.
> 
> The fact is Brad got anal with her. I, her husband, did not. Brad behaved in some way that led to dear Becky going for it.
> 
> Clearly obviously, I did not have the same skill set.
> 
> As I've previously stated, in the future, I want to be "Brad" and enjoy how the other half "does it."


No your reasoning is flawed.

Maybe you are not as good swaying your wife as Brad was.

Maybe your bigger than Brad and anal sex would be uncomfortable for your wife......

And unless your wife is a porn star she just might not feel anal sex is all that it was supposed to be and got that part of sex out of her system.

It most likely has nothing to do with you.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Entropy3000 said:


> Sorry. Just no. You do not have to marry a party girl to have great married sex.


I agree but it sounds like he is doing a knee-jerk reaction and wants to party it up with party girls and then find the sweet girl next door to marry. There are all sorts of grey areas in the middle.

I don't think being a party girl prohibits her from being a good wife - she's sowed her wild oats now.

I'm not a party girl myself but to judge her on one sexual act she did with that guy - hey, maybe Brad was the one who wanted it and she was playing along because she liked him. Relationship dynamics, and sexual dynamics are different with every pairing.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> Agreed.
> THIS offends me more than what is said about guys. Guys can man up and make their own choice, but I am tired of the put downs for the women who choose their own way. I support them in what ever they choose. It is their life and their choice. But I lost out because I was being a man wh0re myself. I do not have a double standard here. But I ended up finding a wonderful woman anyway. She knew everything before we married and she saw enough in me to overlook many things.


I see the same thing and feel the same way.

A woman decides to be a bit more traditional and discriminating in her approach to sex and suddenly she becomes labelled as
" LD " which is supposed to be a bad word on TAM.
Almost like a freak or something.

I have told our stroy many times on TAM.
When I started out with my wife I was not looking for anything, she put some direction in my life.
I spent years with lots of HD women , and all we really had in common was lots of sex. Falling in love was risky business, and I paid the price a couple of times.
But with my wife , I saw someone that helped me change my views about life ,love and sex.
I was never looking for a virgin because I too , thought that they were freaks.
But my experience with my wife taught me that women like that were not freaks, they just had different values.
And no.
My wife is absolutely not LD ,bored or loosing interest in having great sex with one person , even after 18 long years.

My take is a lot of these things are just useless social constructs. We don't have to accept one way or the other way.
But we must be prepared to accept the consequences of our choices in life , before & after marriage.


----------



## Entropy3000

EnjoliWoman said:


> I agree but it sounds like he is doing a knee-jerk reaction and wants to party it up with party girls and then find the sweet girl next door to marry. There are all sorts of grey areas in the middle.
> 
> I don't think being a party girl prohibits her from being a good wife - she's sowed her wild oats now.
> 
> I'm not a party girl myself but to judge her on one sexual act she did with that guy - hey, maybe Brad was the one who wanted it and she was playing along because she liked him. Relationship dynamics, and sexual dynamics are different with every pairing.


We agree!!

I think his conclusion is a tad absurd. 

In this case he married it appears "a party girl" who has turned into an uptight chick with him. But these labels aside as I am throwing them fast and loose are not the issue here.

Really the whole thing is crazy. Not sure if he answered how they ended up next door to Brad.

I think we can agree this is not about her sexual past per se. It is about Brad and the situation and then he throws in this anal sex thing. 

They should have had a better transparency about things up front and not have had these other people in their life.

The biggest issue appears to be around this to me and not her having "wild" sex with anyone.

I can relate to this actually to some extent. My younger life style and many of those friends were not compatible with my marriage. My wife did not need to hear from some other woman what a cute ass I had. I think this woman had a picture of my bare ass with me just wearing a tee shirt. AWKWARD. That actually came up. Don't ask. This couple followed me home from work... to reconnect with me. OMG. To this day I fear them finding me again. And the answer to any questions is hell no and no but she was there and had a camera. Kinky couple.


----------



## Starstarfish

At least you never had a "I didn't recognize you with your clothes on" exchange, lol. I was a third party witness to one of those once, I wasn't even one of the involved parties, and I wanted to crawl off in embarrassment.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

It's one thing to want a lady in the streets and a freak in the sheets. It's totally another thing to end up with a lady in YOUR sheets and a freak in everyone elses!


----------



## seasalt

Tony,

I'll repeat my earlier post. Your issue should be that she socially involved, actually moved you next door to, her previous sex partner. In my book that really bad form and disrespectful behavior.

The sex act is something that a couple should discuss and jointly understand the boundaries within their relationship. It's not called consentual sex for no good reason.

I don't remember how old you are but stop talking about all of the women you intend to get even with. You will some time in the future take stock of your life and come to realize you have gained nothing but a bad reputation and dinner for one for yourself.

Just sayin',

Seasalt


----------



## Kobo

Jellybeans said:


> Oh is it a troll?


Well let's see: 

how many posters on here give out first names on this site? How many of those people willing to use even first names so easily are doing so while claiming to be so embarrassed and shamed by their wife. We actually have 4 names. Must be a record. Tony, Becky, Sarah, Brad. 


Becky (That name just screams dear penthouse or literotica.com BTW) is a former wild girl who finds a "good guy" to settle down with yet moves in with this good guy next door to a former frat boy lover that told all his buddies about their escapades

Becky befriends her former frat boy lover's wife and Becky and Tony become "couple friends" with Brad and Sarah

Becky the former party girl trying to settle down is so mature and secure in herself that she sees no issue in moving next door to Brad but is so immature and insecure that she doesn't tell her husband about the relationship.

Tony is only concerned about Anal between Brad and Becky

Tony hasn't threatened to tell Sarah. 

Tony hasn't so much as blown a kiss at Brad


etc., etc.,etc.,


----------



## AngryTony

Kobo said:


> how many posters on here give out first names on this site? How many of those people willing to use even first names so easily....Must be a record. Tony, Becky, Sarah, Brad.
> 
> Tony hasn't so much as blown a kiss at Brad



Hello Kobo.

First, the names I have used are fakes. I thought this would be evident to most people. I even used quotation marks at first.

Second, why would I kiss Brad? **** eroticism much, Kobo?

Or as others have asked, why am I not angry at Brad? Brad did nothing wrong. He saw something he liked. He went for it. He got it. 

I would like to be more like Brad.


----------



## AngryTony

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's one thing to want a lady in the streets and a freak in the sheets. It's totally another thing to end up with a lady in YOUR sheets and a freak in everyone elses!



Amen brother


----------



## AngryTony

EnjoliWoman said:


> ...he is doing a knee-jerk reaction and wants to party it up with party girls and then find the sweet girl next door to marry.
> 
> ...hey, maybe Brad was the one who wanted it and she was playing along because she liked him. Relationship dynamics, and sexual dynamics are different with every pairing.



Yes, I want to party and maybe a few years down the road find the nice girl to marry. Absolutely correct.

LOL!! Becky actually used these lines on me - different dynamics etc. Hilarious. Well you know what, I would want a woman who would indulge me as she did to others (Brad).


----------



## Faithful Wife

"I would like to be more like Brad."

I am not saying what you should or shouldn't do...but really? Your highest aspiration is to screw a woman up the ass....and that's it? You wanna be like Brad. Wow.

Like he is some kind of hero.

Do you really think having anal sex is THAT BIG OF A DEAL that you have to "be like Brad" to get it? 

That is so odd to me, as I would guess that at least half of all women enjoy anal sex, yet for some reason, you think you have to "be like Brad" to get some.


----------



## AngryTony

EnjoliWoman said:


> maybe Brad was the one who wanted it and she was playing along because she liked him.


Well I wanted it as well - remember me - her husband? But....she didn't play along with me, now did she? Soooo....where does THAT fall on the "like" scale you refer to?


----------



## AngryTony

Kimberley17 said:


> just because they had anal that means they had kinky wild sex? Maybe she didn't like it and that's why she doesn't want to do it again ever think of that?



I guess she didn't NOT like it so much that they did so repeatedly and all the time. Sooo with me THAT's why she doesn't want to do it.

Gotcha. Perfect sense. Thanks for the input.


----------



## AngryTony

Jellybeans said:


> How old are you guys? In your twenties?



I'm 26. She's 30


----------



## WorkingOnMe

So, I'm curious....is she offering it up now?


----------



## happyman64

I still want a clear explanation of why you live next door and why she never fessed up to their relationship???


----------



## jaquen

AngryTony said:


> Yes, I want to party and maybe a few years down the road find the nice girl to marry. Absolutely correct.
> 
> LOL!! Becky actually used these lines on me - different dynamics etc. Hilarious. Well you know what, I would want a woman who would indulge me as she did to others (Brad).


Yes because it's completely plausible for a man to find out that his next door neighbor and friend f*cked the "love of his life" in the ass, never told him, spread that info around, and his immediate response is "I've got nothing against him and in fact I want to be just like him".

My brain won't let me continue posting in this thread. Take care everyone.


----------



## AngryTony

Jellybeans said:


> So... I am curious--how did you guys end up living next to Brad? Does Brad's wife know that Brad and Becky had a thing?


We are in a rental home that is a few doors down from Brad and Sarah. Becky and Sarah are pretty tight and when we were looking for a place Sarah told us about the house close to theirs.

I asked Becky if Sarah knew and she said yes and that it wasn't a big deal to her. Becky figured it would be a big deal to me so it was agreed that I would not be told. Just wonderful, huh?


----------



## AngryTony

jaquen said:


> Yes because it's completely plausible for a man to find out that his next door neighbor and friend f*cked the "love of his life" in the ass, never told him, spread that info around, and his immediate response is "I've got nothing against him and in fact I want to be just like him".


I met Brad thru an introduction from his wife Sarah, who is friends with Becky. We became friends thereafter. It's not like I've known him forever. It's also not like I knew he had had a relationship with Becky. Was it sleazy that he didn't tell me about it? I don't think so. I think it was completely sleazy that Becky didn't tell me about it.

So yeah, I don't really think Brad did anything really wrong here.


----------



## AngryTony

WorkingOnMe said:


> So, I'm curious....is she offering it up now?


Interesting point you bring up.

She wants to get together tonight so we can discuss things "calmly like adults." She says she loves me and that we can "work it out."

My mind is made up but I'll see what she has to say (....or offer as you put it....)

BTW, you really actually "get my situation." Your posts have been spot on.


----------



## Jellybeans

AngryTony said:


> I asked Becky if Sarah knew and she said yes and that it wasn't a big deal to her. Becky figured it would be a big deal to me so it was agreed that I would not be told. Just wonderful, huh?


So she agreed with the girl who's husband she slept with previously that she wouldn't tell you she had slept with the girl's husband previously?

:scratchhead:

As a woman, I wouldn't be all chummy with a girl who's guy I used to be involved w/ that way. It's...weird.


----------



## Jellybeans

Sounds like Sarah is Becky's boyfriend


----------



## Starstarfish

Wait - so, Sarah knows her husband gave Becky a pounding, and they are still really good friends? And they then conspired together to keep this information from you? 

My best friend slept with my boyfriend in high school - I went to her house, punched her in the face and guess what - we stopped being friends. Who is still friends with someone in that situation? I mean - was part of Becky's previous kink having a threesome with Brad and Sarah? What else would explain this strangeness?

Seriously, escape this neighborhood these people sound unreal.


----------



## Kobo

AngryTony said:


> Hello Kobo.
> 
> First, the names I have used are fakes.


of course they are. Like the rest of your story


----------



## Kobo

Starstarfish said:


> Wait - so, Sarah knows her husband gave Becky a pounding, and they are still really good friends? And they then conspired together to keep this information from you?
> 
> My best friend slept with my boyfriend in high school - I went to her house, punched her in the face and guess what - we stopped being friends. Who is still friends with someone in that situation? I mean - was part of Becky's previous kink having a threesome with Brad and Sarah? What else would explain this strangeness?
> 
> Seriously, escape this neighborhood these people sound unreal.


Don't worry. The money shot is coming tomorrow after his big meeting tonight with Becky.


----------



## Jellybeans

Starstarfish said:


> My best friend slept with my boyfriend in high school - I went to her house, punched her in the face and guess what - we stopped being friends.


:rofl:


----------



## Shaggy

It 100% comes down to Becky chose to lie to her husband.


----------



## RClawson

AngryTony said:


> We are in a rental home that is a few doors down from Brad and Sarah. Becky and Sarah are pretty tight and when we were looking for a place Sarah told us about the house close to theirs.
> 
> I asked Becky if Sarah knew and she said yes and that it wasn't a big deal to her. Becky figured it would be a big deal to me so it was agreed that I would not be told. Just wonderful, huh?


Finally! Ok this right here is the betrayal. Do you get that?

Of course if you get your wife to bring on some backdoor action I guess there is still hope. Right?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Joey slept with Rachel and was still friends with Ross.


----------



## TRy

AngryTony said:


> We are in a rental home that is a few doors down from Brad and Sarah. Becky and Sarah are pretty tight and when we were looking for a place Sarah told us about the house close to theirs.


 She actually moved next door to Brad on purpose.



AngryTony said:


> I asked Becky if Sarah knew and she said yes and that it wasn't a big deal to her. Becky figured it would be a big deal to me so it was agreed that I would not be told. Just wonderful, huh?


 This is why she is not wife material. Your wife, Sarah and Brad, conspire to keep it a secret from you. Everyone else would know and you were deliberately being played the fool. This woman does not understand what it means to put your spouse before all others.

I am not very concerned that she had kinky sex with him before you were married. I am concerned about how she has disrespected you for him after she was married to you. Although there may be a debate as to if a spouse should disclose all of their past partners, their is little debate that you should not keep in contact with an ex-lover without your spouse knowledge. She not only conspired to keep it a secret, but deliberately got the two of you to move in next door to him, and got you to bring him into your social circle without telling you who he was to her.


----------



## TRy

WorkingOnMe said:


> Joey slept with Rachel and was still friends with Ross.


 Fact: TV is not real.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

TRy said:


> Fact: TV is not real.


WTH??


----------



## Shaggy

I don't think Joey ever slept with Rachel. They did an alternate fantasy story line in which they did, but never in the main story line.


----------



## Wanting1

TRy said:


> She actually moved next door to Brad on purpose.
> 
> This is why she is not wife material. Your wife, Sarah and Brad, conspire to keep it a secret from you. Everyone else would know and you were deliberately being played the fool. This woman does not understand what it means to put your spouse before all others.
> 
> I am not very concerned that she had kinky sex with him before you were married. I am concerned about how she has disrespected you for him after she was married to you. Although there may be a debate as to if a spouse should disclose all of their past partners, their is little debate that you should not keep in contact with an ex-lover without your spouse knowledge. She not only conspired to keep it a secret, but deliberately got the two of you to move in next door to him, and got you to bring him into your social circle without telling you who he was to her.


Bingo!!


----------



## tulsy

Starstarfish said:


> Wait - so, Sarah knows her husband gave Becky a pounding, and they are still really good friends? And they then conspired together to keep this information from you?
> 
> My best friend slept with my boyfriend in high school - I went to her house, punched her in the face and guess what - we stopped being friends. Who is still friends with someone in that situation? I mean - was part of Becky's previous kink having a threesome with Brad and Sarah? What else would explain this strangeness?
> 
> Seriously, escape this neighborhood these people sound unreal.


That sounds like your "best friend" screwed around with your (at the time) current boyfriend, which is a bit different. This is about the fact that she introduced Brad as her girlfriends significant other, not a former lover...the fact that he was a former lover was kept from the husband.

I know people from high school who all dated within the same circle and continue to do so. One chick had her husbands longtime girlfriend as her maid-of-honor at their wedding.....I always liked dating women that none of my buddies had experienced....different strokes for different strokes, I guess.


----------



## Jellybeans

WorkingOnMe said:


> Joey slept with Rachel and was still friends with Ross.


And that would only work on television.


----------



## Caribbean Man

tulsy said:


> *I always liked dating women that none of my buddies had experienced....*different strokes for different strokes, I guess.



Me too.
I never dated or had sex with any girl my friends had sex with.


----------



## RandomDude

Aye, that's a violation of the bro code mate

You just don't fk your mate's exs!


----------



## Michie

WorkingOnMe said:


> Nope. It's because she's hot for Brad and not for her nice guy husband. Saving anal as sacred between her and brad shows that she's not into her husband sexually.


:rofl: ok


----------



## LostViking

I don't have a problem with AT's attitude at all. His wife is a liar who devalues him as a man and husband. 

Get out there and hit it Tony. Feed the beast.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Madman1

Well, what did backdoor Becky have to say for herself?


----------



## Catherine602

Madman1 said:


> Well, what did backdoor Becky have to say for herself?


Angry Tony, let's have anal.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Lol


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Angry Tony, my wife was not a party girl and I get anal. I bet your head just exploded...


----------



## Kobo

Catherine602 said:


> Angry Tony, let's have anal.


She brought Sarah along to make up for the drama.


----------



## Madman1

That works for me. 
Sarah, not anal that is!

Seriously that may have actually gone the other way eventually.
That would have been a concern of mine because of the "Oh Tony doesn't need to know, for his OWN good".

Or them alone having a beer reminiscing.

Its wrong on sooo many levels.


----------



## Catherine602

LostViking said:


> I don't have a problem with AT's attitude at all. His wife is a liar who devalues him as a man and husband.
> 
> Get out there and hit it Tony. Feed the beast.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Feed the beast. What does that mean. Please tell me. 

I am confused. I thought i had a fix on male sexuality but i am not sure. I read these suggestion to men who have been hurt all the time. 

They seem to suggest that getting into as many vj, butts and mouths as posible will assuage wounded manhood or is the birthright of men. 

I have to tell you that i feel a sense of disgust when I read this. It is so thoughtlessly said and seriously considered. I think it is immoral, unethical and inhuman. 

Humans are not animals and women are not things with parts to poke. Are you married? Does your wife know that you think it is ok for men to prey on women to sure up a weak sense of their manhood? 

Does she know that you think men should act like animals and treat women like objects to get sex. Does she know how little you respect woman? 

Why don't you post in threads started by men in sexless marriages who consider their wives heartless. Egg their LD wives on like you support this mans inhumanity. Why not? 

You would at lest be consistent. Woman are featurless sex parts, meant to be used to rack up numbers, right? Well why are they expected to grow feelings when men want to use them for sex when they marry. 

You see how it works don't you. Be careful what you say and be consistent. You may think you are compartmentilizing sex and human feelings but women are not compartments. 

Collectively, You get what you give. Inhumanity begets inhumanity. An animal is always an animal, a heartless user gets played. 

Welcome to the laws of human thermodynamics. One action creates an equal and opposite reaction.


----------



## Madman1

Triggering?


----------



## TiggyBlue

This is the most surreal thread.


----------



## Catherine602

Madman1 said:


> Triggering?


Yes. I was used by a man more than twice my age when I was 15. I was succetable looking for an escape from an unhappy dysfunctional home. I thought I found someone who loved me.

I was too sheltered to know that there are men who prey on stupid girls with dreams of finding love. I have no doubt he was patted on the back for his conquest.

It is exactly the same as the predation AT is being proudly encouraged to do. You either respect yourself and act like the man you want to be seen as or you don't. It's your choice. 

But don't be outraged when you come up against what you put out. A wife who thinks her husband has no feelings associated with wanting to have sex or is out of control. She didn't pull that stuff out of think air.

It is hard for many women to understand this duality. I don't understand it.


----------



## Madman1

Yes what happened to you was wrong, that man was scum.

It may be hard to believe but at 15 it has no reflection on you.

AT's wife was a party girl, that's her choice, her mistake was hiding the truth from Tony and putting it in his face, UFB, but if Tony cuts her lose, he is free to party, just as she did.

Single people are going to have sex and multiple partners, that's life.

Tony's posts sound like he wants to use someone but I think he will get past that, but he probably will still have sex as a single man, with multiple partners, a FWB might work. He just does not have to use people, that's all.


----------



## Catherine602

Madman1 said:


> Yes what happened to you was wrong, that man was scum.
> 
> It may be hard to believe but at 15 it has no reflection on you.
> 
> AT wife was a party girl, that's her choice, her mistake was hiding the truth from Tony and putting it in his face, UFB, but if Tony cuts her lose, he is free to party, just as she did.
> 
> But single people are going to have sex and multiple partners, that's life.
> 
> Tony posts sound like he wants to use someone but I think he will get past that, but he may still have sex as a single man, with multiple partners.


As long as he is honest about his sexual past with that nice girl he plans to look for. He needs to tell her that his reaction to being hurt was to find women to use. 

Then she can decide if she wants a man who has an underlying problem with his self confidence as a man and views sex as a solution to his problems instead of personal growth. 

As long as she is wants children badly enough, she may marry a man who does not share her values. But she will not respect his view of women and sex. that may not come out till latter. Poor Tony will be angry again. 

Honestly though, while Tony is racking up numbers, so is that nice girl. Who does he think these men are having sex with? Someone's future wife. His wife by proxy.


----------



## Madman1

Catherine602,
I just have to say I am sorry for what you went through, as I think about it I am moved by your post.

But yes if he goes on a use them and lose them quest its a no win for anybody. You make very good points.



Catherine602 said:


> Honestly though, while Tony is racking up numbers, so is that nice girl. Who does he think these men are having sex with? Someone's future wife. His wife by proxy.


I'm smiling at this, its a good point as well.

Thx Madman1


----------



## tryingtobebetter

Catherine602 said:


> As long as he is honest about his sexual past with that nice girl he plans to look for. He needs to tell her that his reaction to being hurt was to find women to use.
> 
> Then she can decide if she wants a man who has an underlying problem with his self confidence as a man and views sex as a solution to his problems instead of personal growth.
> 
> As long as she is wants children badly enough, she may marry a man who does not share her values. But she will not respect his view of women and sex. that may not come out till latter. Poor Tony will be angry again.
> 
> Honestly though, while Tony is racking up numbers, so is that nice girl. Who does he think these men are having sex with? Someone's future wife. His wife by proxy.


And so the cycle of hurt just goes on and on.


----------



## Faithful Wife

As long as Tony is honest, like Catherine is saying, why would anyone get hurt?

I'm sure many women will be happily throwing some booty in Tony's face when he proclaims that he is out to bang as many women up the a-hole as a way to punish is STBX. Yeah, that's sexy.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Don't become a future Becky, I think that's the point lol


----------



## hookares

My take? You can never know if the woman you are dating will lie about her past if you ask her. My ex wife was either a liar, or I was so bad at servicing her that she just had to cheat while I was making a buck to support her and her extravagant lifestyle.
In any event, should I ever make the mistake of getting married again, I will only be interested in what my spouse does AFTER we tie the knot. I'll be only too happy to settle for monogamy.


----------



## treyvion

tulsy said:


> That sounds like your "best friend" screwed around with your (at the time) current boyfriend, which is a bit different. This is about the fact that she introduced Brad as her girlfriends significant other, not a former lover...the fact that he was a former lover was kept from the husband.
> 
> I know people from high school who all dated within the same circle and continue to do so. One chick had her husbands longtime girlfriend as her maid-of-honor at their wedding.....I always liked dating women that none of my buddies had experienced....different strokes for different strokes, I guess.


The anal sex and extreme sex play could have and likely continued on from the next door position. It's something that happens, like the guy living around the corner that you don't know about it.

I find it hard to believe that they had that arrangement and never exploited it.


----------



## LostViking

Catherine602 said:


> I have to tell you that i feel a sense of disgust when I read this. It is so thoughtlessly said and seriously considered. I think it is immoral, unethical and inhuman.
> 
> Humans are not animals and women are not things with parts to poke. Are you married? Does your wife know that you think it is ok for men to prey on women to sure up a weak sense of their manhood?


Um, yeah Catherine.... I'm espousing rape and brutality of women... 

Yeah.. that's me in a nutshell. Read my posts. My posts are repleat with espousing the sexual violation of women and girls of all races....

You know I would eludicate on this further if I wasn't laughing so freaking hard right now. 

If Tony wants to divorce his lying wife and find and date women who like to fly their freaky flag, then he should do so. 

I stand by what I said. 

If he has a wild side (the beast) that his current wife has refused to share with him (even though she admitted to him that she has an extended history of willingly engaging in such activity with another man) but refuses to do it for him, then that is Tony's choice.

Its his choice to feed that beast... a choice to seek out a sexual partner or partners who like to engage in kinky sex. Not to rape or force himself on an innocent or unwilling woman.


----------



## treyvion

Catherine602 said:


> As long as he is honest about his sexual past with that nice girl he plans to look for. He needs to tell her that his reaction to being hurt was to find women to use.
> 
> Then she can decide if she wants a man who has an underlying problem with his self confidence as a man and views sex as a solution to his problems instead of personal growth.
> 
> As long as she is wants children badly enough, she may marry a man who does not share her values. But she will not respect his view of women and sex. that may not come out till latter. Poor Tony will be angry again.
> 
> Honestly though, while Tony is racking up numbers, so is that nice girl. Who does he think these men are having sex with? Someone's future wife. His wife by proxy.


When your sexual identity has been shaken - it's much easier to restore it with positive sex engagements than tricks of the mind.

It's nearly instantaneous if you engage in the act.

I'm not a fan of him putting himself into a whole bunch of orifices on alot of different people. Just chill out and someone worthy of at least sex buddy title will appear.


----------



## treyvion

treyvion said:


> The anal sex and extreme sex play could have and likely continued on from the next door position. It's something that happens, like the guy living around the corner that you don't know about it.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that they had that arrangement and never exploited it.


He was cuckholded in her group of friends. This is something that happens.


----------



## Catherine602

LostViking said:


> Um, yeah Catherine.... I'm espousing rape and brutality of women...
> 
> Yeah.. that's me in a nutshell. Read my posts. My posts are repleat with espousing the sexual violation of women and girls of all races....
> 
> You know I would eludicate on this further if I wasn't laughing so freaking hard right now.
> 
> If Tony wants to divorce his lying wife and find and date women who like to fly their freaky flag, then he should do so.
> 
> I stand by what I said.
> 
> If he has a wild side (the beast) that his current wife has refused to share with him (even though she admitted to him that she has an extended history of willingly engaging in such activity with another man) but refuses to do it for him, then that is Tony's choice.
> 
> Its his choice to feed that beast... a choice to seek out a sexual partner or partners who like to engage in kinky sex. Not to rape or force himself on an innocent or unwilling woman.


Oh it all good. Another Becky in the making. I hope none of his former lovers show up and talk to his Mrs good girl. 

There is another thing he had better consider. Once he gets a taste for anal sex he will want it from mrs nice girl. Probably other things he will try and like. 

He has to tell her what is expected of her. I am sure there are plenty of good girls saving themselves just to have anal sex with that special man. But no hiding yourself tony. 



treyvion said:


> When your sexual identity has been shaken - it's much easier to restore it with positive sex engagements than tricks of the mind.
> 
> It's nearly instantaneous if you engage in the act.
> 
> I'm not a fan of him putting himself into a whole bunch of orifices on alot of different people. Just chill out and someone worthy of at least sex buddy title will appear.


Oh sex does that? Why not just masturbate why does he need use someone elses body part to make him feel good? When he is feeling good he can go out and look for mutually satisfying sex. 

That or be honest with the woman who will service his manhood to health and let her know he is using her vj. Maybe she will be happy to help. Honesty.. 

That's what we advocate for Becky right? Make it a habit to be honest in your dealings with the opposite sex. That way it will be automatic when it means the most. No hiding right?


----------



## treyvion

Catherine602 said:


> Oh it all good. Another Becky in the making. I hope none of his former lovers show up and talk to his Mrs good girl.
> 
> There is another thing he had better consider. Once he gets a taste for anal sex he will want it from mrs nice girl. Probably other things he will try and like.
> 
> He has to tell her what is expected of her. I am sure there are plenty of good girls saving themselves just to have anal sex with that special man. But no hiding yourself tony.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sex does that? Why not just masturbate why does he need use someone elses body part to make him feel good? When he is feeling good he can go out and look for mutually satisfying sex.
> 
> That or be honest with the woman who will service his manhood to health and let her know he is using her vj. Maybe she will be happy to help. Honesty..
> 
> That's what we advocate for Becky right? Make it a habit to be honest in your dealings with the opposite sex. That way it will be automatic when it means the most. No hiding right?


Men are designed to procreate and chase sex. He's not necessarily "using" the female if they both enjoy it. Masterbating does not feed this part of your Psyche, so what now you and your woman are done now and your not better than the 80% Walmart customers having no big deal regular sex, so you have to Jack off. That's not healthy. I'm speaking from a mans point of view.... Yew the sex act with someone you trust will reinvigorate that part of your sexual identity and also build your confidence and your vibe will be more attractive to females.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AngryTony

Wow! Lots of commentary since last night.

So here is the dull recap of my get together with Becky yesterday.

She said she loves me and never intended to hurt me. She understands that moving close to Sarah and Brad was probably not the best idea she's ever had. She said that there was no "conspiracy" among the three of them. She didn't tell me anything because she figured (correctly) that I would flip out.

When I asked about why I've been treated differently than Brad she said that it had nothing to do with me. With Brad she was in the headspace to be adventurous. He was really into the entire anal thing and she wasn't against it, so they did it a bunch of times. When I pressed the issue she said she didn't keep count but probably "a few dozen times."

With me she said she viewed our life and marriage as more conventional - she didn't have the urge to go crazy anymore. She says she'd gotten all of that out of her system. She also said she now realizes that she has not been "fair" to me. She said she now realizes how "kinky stuff" is more important to me than it is to her and that we can do whatever I like.

She wants to save the marriage and wants to "make things right."

I wasn't really in a buying mood. I basically told her that I felt second best to Brad and that as her husband I should have gotten her absolute best not ho hum second or third or fourth best sex. In addition, I hammered in how completely disrespectful of her it was to get me to become friends with a guy she had sex with and me not knowing about it. She swears that there is absolutely nothing going on between her and Brad now.

That's pretty well it. I'm not as AngryTony as I've been the last few days. If anything I'm now DismayedTony. 

I still want to play around and that's what I'm going to do. Treat 'em perhaps not so respectfully... Ultimately though, it would be nice to find a girl to settle down with that will bring me her "A game" not her C or D game as did Becky.

Like at I said at the beginning, nothing particularly earth shattering yesterday. So that's where we are.


----------



## Catherine602

treyvion said:


> Men are designed to procreate and chase sex. He's not necessarily "using" the female if they both enjoy it. Masterbating does not feed this part of your Psyche, so what now you and your woman are done now and your not better than the 80% Walmart customers having no big deal regular sex, so you have to Jack off. That's not healthy. I'm speaking from a mans point of view.... Yew the sex act with someone you trust will reinvigorate that part of your sexual identity and also build your confidence and your vibe will be more attractive to females.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It appears women are taking the same point of view. Chasing sex. So i guess its not a man thing its a human thing appearently. 

I don't know if men are more attractive to women because they have sex. How would anyone know?


----------



## treyvion

Catherine602 said:


> It appears women are taking the same point of view. Chasing sex. So i guess its not a man thing its a human thing appearently.
> 
> I don't know if men are more attractive to women because they have sex. How would anyone know?



Men who are not having regular sex and intimacy appear to have be starving, they are more stressed and more cautious and its not more sexually attractive to a female looking at a male who has an abundance of it.

Happened to me after two droughts the drought is broken and in 24 hrs the world looks to be a place fill of abundance and confidence restored and babes liking your vibe a lot more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Did dear Becky offer to come clean about her past and who else in the social group she had a sexual relationship with?


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## Catherine602

Well Tony 'em are individual human beings. 

First of all, you need to take responsibility for your error in judgement. Do you think disrespecting women will make you any better? 

You need to spend time fixing your picker by sharpening your perceptions in your relationships. Treating women who did nothing to you with disrespect will not help you. 

You'll have the same bad picker, with the unresolved anger from a bad relationship and a habit of treating women with disrespect. What type of woman will you attract? 

Remember, everyone here advocates honesty. So you are going to let mrs nice girl know that this is who you are right. 

Give her a chance to decide if she want an angry man with poor judgement, and little respect for women.


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## Catherine602

The forests elves are breathing swamp gas tonight. 

Well it was a stimulating discussion.

I guess Tony is a man who has been hurt. Did I hit home Tony. I did not mean to hurt you. If you were hurt, the only way back is to work on you to recover. don't decend into revenge.

Who ever hurt you will get there's. They won't get you though. Make her feel the loss of a good man and live well.


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## Catherine602

treyvion said:


> Men who are not having regular sex and intimacy appear to have be starving, they are more stressed and more cautious and its not more sexually attractive to a female looking at a male who has an abundance of it.
> 
> Happened to me after two droughts the drought is broken and in 24 hrs the world looks to be a place fill of abundance and confidence restored and babes liking your vibe a lot more.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand. I was being a little hyperbolic. I have heard that described before. It hard for me to understand because I have never experienced that. 

I know it's true though. I notice it with my husband. Before I read post by men describing what you have, I thought he was irritable because he was not getting his way. He was more relaxed, patient and resiliently happy when we are having sex regularly.


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## Kobo

AngryTony said:


> *[
> 
> Becky was in a cheerleadr's outfit but had a dumbfounded look on her face. You see, Brad was there too and he was in a death grip with Kobo!
> 
> You see, Kobo's sumo wrestler thong had caught some of Brad's lush hair in its folds and both men were concerned about the optics of the situation.
> 
> I carefully backed up, went downstairs, had a diet reverse osmosis soda, and left the house.
> 
> It was indeed a dark and stormy night.*


*


You're trying to hard. That's how I know you're a fool writing a fake cuckolding story on the Internet. What's funny is either you're a real cuckold or a wanna be literotica.com writer testing out his realism. You failed the test.*


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## AngryTony

Kobo said:


> You're trying to hard. That's how I know you're a fool writing a fake cuckolding story on the Internet. What's funny is either you're a real cuckold or a wanna be literotica.com writer testing out his realism. You failed the test.



"In thy foul throat liest .....Brad?! ..."
- AngryTony, My Wife Never Told Me


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## treyvion

Catherine602 said:


> I understand. I was being a little hyperbolic. I have heard that described before. It hard for me to understand because I have never experienced that.
> 
> I know it's true though. I notice it with my husband. Before I read post by men describing what you have, I thought he was irritable because he was not getting his way. He was more relaxed, patient and resiliently happy when we are having sex regularly.


After you get it, you look the part. You look like you know what your doing. A gleam in your eye, a glow to your skin, and a confidence in your movements.

Believe me, I've about maxxed out what you can do without it, other than being a top notch boxer or something, but I still think their is something about the touch and love of a woman who desires you, that just fills you just right.

I guess without it, you are a bit more impatient, stressed, you look like you "lack", things just aren't right - with the simple addition of a female who wants me inside of her, all of that is reverted and I'm getting attention in the environments I'm in from women who would like someone like me, before the sex they weren't really looking or maybe I was looking too hungrily at them.

It makes a difference, I described it from the male point of view, and there are male psyche, I'm sure different styles of a male psyche depending on his priorities.

Giving your man your love, is providing him armor and resiliance against the world. Many things in the world which would wear him, do not because he knows his wife loves and takes care of him.


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## Madman1

AngryTony said:


> "In thy foul throat liest .....Brad?! ..."
> - AngryTony, My Wife Never Told Me



Well Tony has been banned, does anyone know what this quote means? It escapes me.

Does this mean tony ws a troll who was jacking us around or did he just say somthing wrong?

I'm baffled? :scratchhead:


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## See_Listen_Love

AngryTony said:


> Well, I have already learned, courtesy of Becky, how little I can trust a party girl.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to have fun with some party girls and experience the side of them when they do not see me as "nice guy husband material to be lied to."
> 
> I really would like to be the guy they get kinky with right away because it doesn't mean anything and I'm not special.


No,

You have not learned yet that you were ignorant.

Your bad boy tentativeness is also somewhat pityfull.

Why don't you take up weightlifting, martial arts and running to blow off your anger and become a stronger, self confident man?


If you then wish to be the bad boy you will have much more chances.


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## See_Listen_Love

Shaggy said:


> I think she basic told him , brad interested her in ways tony never would and that tony should be thrilled that she chose him to be the guy she would be with now, and that he could forget any of that wild stuff she did with Brad - stuff that was so wild and went on so long that it was common knowledge in her social group.
> 
> So clearly it isn't a case if her having done stuff she didn't like or was forced into, since everyone on the social group knew of it, clearly it was part of her public persona.
> 
> *The thing was that Tony isn't being invited to join the party, that was special for her and Brad.*
> 
> Look, the OP is clearly being told she isn't that into him. He didn't know it for a long time, but having him socialize with her ex lover shows how little she values him. She chose to keep Brad nod the others who knew of her exploits around, while keeping her husband in the dark.


This is the pain.


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## See_Listen_Love

AngryTony said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EnjoliWoman*
> _maybe Brad was the one who wanted it and she was playing along because she liked him._
> 
> 
> Well I wanted it as well - remember me - her husband? But....she didn't play along with me, now did she? Soooo....where does THAT fall on the "like" scale you refer to?


I think Enjoli is right. It is heard many times the woman gives in because the man 'wants it'. Then, when the Nice Guy asks for things, if not needed to give in, she does not give in!

She senses this because he is a Nice Guy, he will respect her when she does not want to do any kinky stuff.

She also senses the Bad Guy will move on if she does not do as he pleases. Therefore she goes along with his 'wishes' (read commands)


The other explanation is that she in her wild day's was a wild thing and into all kinds of (maybe meaningless) sexual experiences, just for fun and excitement. Possibly even withouth sexual pleasure, as may happen with girls.


Your pain is in the impossible dilemma that you would want her to have given this to you _because_ you were a Nice Guy she loves, and not that she would have given this to the Bad Guy, so much less loving her, _because_ he was a Bad Guy.

It is excruciating this. If feel sorry for you.


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## See_Listen_Love

AngryTony said:


> We are in a rental home that is a few doors down from Brad and Sarah. Becky and Sarah are pretty tight and when we were looking for a place Sarah told us about the house close to theirs.
> 
> I asked Becky if Sarah knew and she said yes and that it wasn't a big deal to her. Becky figured it would be a big deal to me so it was agreed that I would not be told. Just wonderful, huh?


A true conspiracy. This would be a dealbreaker to me. Especially since it was understood how important the knowledge would be to you...


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## See_Listen_Love

Catherine602 said:


> Feed the beast. What does that mean. Please tell me.
> 
> I am confused. I thought i had a fix on male sexuality but i am not sure. I read these suggestion to men who have been hurt all the time.
> 
> They seem to suggest that getting into as many vj, butts and mouths as posible will assuage wounded manhood or is the birthright of men.
> 
> I have to tell you that i feel a sense of disgust when I read this. It is so thoughtlessly said and seriously considered. I think it is immoral, unethical and inhuman.
> 
> Humans are not animals and women are not things with parts to poke. Are you married? Does your wife know that you think it is ok for men to prey on women to sure up a weak sense of their manhood?
> 
> Does she know that you think men should act like animals and treat women like objects to get sex. Does she know how little you respect woman?
> 
> Why don't you post in threads started by men in sexless marriages who consider their wives heartless. Egg their LD wives on like you support this mans inhumanity. Why not?
> 
> You would at lest be consistent. Woman are featurless sex parts, meant to be used to rack up numbers, right? Well why are they expected to grow feelings when men want to use them for sex when they marry.
> 
> You see how it works don't you. Be careful what you say and be consistent. You may think you are compartmentilizing sex and human feelings but women are not compartments.
> 
> Collectively, You get what you give. Inhumanity begets inhumanity. An animal is always an animal, a heartless user gets played.
> 
> Welcome to the laws of human thermodynamics. One action creates an equal and opposite reaction.


The typical macho talk I hear about women and sex indicates their having sex compares to making love like MacDonalds to Haut Cuisine.

They don't know what they are talking about. They don't know what they are missing.


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## See_Listen_Love

It maybe does not matter much if it is real or not, because many people on this forum have related issues. There have been worse stories, so maybe it's true.


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## Cosmos

Making absolutely no excuses for a W who had her H unwittingly socialize with one of her exes, but Tony's big mistake was saying "I Do" to a woman who had refused to disclose information about her sexual past to him. He's now planning to compound that mistake by doing _exactly_ what his W did before she married him, and then in all probability be just as unforthcoming regarding his own sexual history when he meets that Nice Girl he'll no doubt feel entitled to settle down with one day.:scratchhead:


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## Caribbean Man

Cosmos said:


> Making absolutely no excuses for a W who had her H unwittingly socialize with one of her exes, but Tony's big mistake was saying "I Do" to a woman who had refused to disclose information about her sexual past to him. He's now planning to compound that mistake by doing _exactly_ what his W did before she married him, and then in all probability be just as unforthcoming regarding his own sexual history when he meets that Nice Girl he'll no doubt feel entitled to settle down down with one day.:scratchhead:


:iagree:
I think that even if the story was just hypothetical , it raises the issue of personal responsibility and ethics in relationships on all sides.


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## Jonesey

See_Listen_Love said:


> I think Enjoli is right. It is heard many times the woman gives in because the man 'wants it'. Then, when the Nice Guy asks for things, if not needed to give in, she does not give in!
> 
> She senses this because he is a Nice Guy, he will respect her when she does not want to do any kinky stuff.
> 
> She also senses the Bad Guy will move on if she does not do as he pleases. Therefore she goes along with his 'wishes' (read commands)
> 
> 
> *The other explanation is that she in her wild day's was a wild thing and into all kinds of (maybe meaningless) sexual experiences, just for fun and excitement. Possibly even withouth sexual pleasure, as may happen with girls.*
> Yes that i would 100% agree with.Normally.People do all sorts
> of crazy sh!t back in the day´s...So Tony What´s up with the Anal???I´m asking i have this friendthat i known for 20+
> been with his wife al and all 15years. And every once in a while. While drunk.Commentating that his wife still after 15 years still haven't learnt to give BJ. And every time i´m almost forts to bite my hold hand ,in order not to tell him the real reason.
> (Feel its not my business)Here is what he does not get.
> 
> Women giving BJ ,hard to learn?? Of course not..Her "crappy bj,is simply because she does not like IT.She only is doing it
> because she loves him. You guy´s would be surprised how many women does not like giving BJ...
> 
> you ar hung up on wrong thing´s
> 
> Your pain is in the impossible dilemma that you would want her to have given this to you _because_ you were a Nice Guy she loves, and not that she would have given this to the Bad Guy, so much less loving her, _because_ he was a Bad Guy.
> 
> It is excruciating this. If feel sorry for you.


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## Cosmos

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> I think that even if the story was just hypothetical , it raises the issue of personal responsibility and ethics in relationships on all sides.


:iagree:

I wouldn't be hacked off if a new partner had had more sexual partners than me, but I'd drop him like a hot potato if I found out that his integrity was such that a large percentage of those partners had simply been used for revenge sex on an ex...


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## jaquen

Madman1 said:


> Well Tony has been banned, does anyone know what this quote means? It escapes me.
> 
> Does this mean tony ws a troll who was jacking us around or did he just say somthing wrong?
> 
> I'm baffled? :scratchhead:


He was one of the most obvious trolls I have ever seen.

And still he racked up 20+ pages of TAMer attention.

:rofl:


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## Cosmos

Madman1 said:


> Well Tony has been banned, does anyone know what this quote means? It escapes me.
> 
> Does this mean tony ws a troll who was jacking us around or did he just say somthing wrong?
> 
> I'm baffled? :scratchhead:


The quote is presumably from Shakespeare's "Richard III"

_
"In thy foul throat thou liest: Queen Margaret saw
Thy murderous falchion smoking in his blood;
The which thou once didst bend against her breast,
But that thy brothers beat aside the point."_


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## Anon Pink

OMG can they just delete this whole damn thread? A visitor would read this thread and be assured that ...

1. It's okay to divorce your wife because she did not inform him of her sexual past, did not inform him that he was making friends with a past lover AND did not inform him she had done things with other men that did not want to do with him for a host of possible reasons none of them having to do with laughing at her husband behind his back.

2. That men can cope with a lot of really bad things, but being in the dark about a wife's past ain't one of them.

3. That a woman who has a sexual experience with a past lover, must always have that on the table for her husband.

4. That women are either virgins or wh0res. The trick is to marry a virgin and then turn her into YOUR wh0re!

This whole thread should be deleted! My apologies to those few posters who attempted to bring some reason and rationality.


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## Madman1

jaquen said:


> He was one of the most obvious trolls I have ever seen.
> 
> And still he racked up 20+ pages of TAMer attention.
> 
> :rofl:


I was on hook line and sinker, I must be a rube.


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## WorkingOnMe

Oh come on. We all knew it, but it was kinda fun. And as CM said, troll or not it was an interesting exercise.


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## Madman1

Cosmos said:


> The quote is presumably from Shakespeare's "Richard III"
> 
> _
> "In thy foul throat thou liest: Queen Margaret saw
> Thy murderous falchion smoking in his blood;
> The which thou once didst bend against her breast,
> But that thy brothers beat aside the point."_


Cosmos, I'm impressed that you even know that, thanks for narrowing it down.

I confess that I don't get the line from Richard III, ha ha, let alone why angry Tony used it.

But I'm content to swim back under the Lilly pads since I got off of his hook. 

Thanks!


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## jaquen

WorkingOnMe said:


> Oh come on. *We all knew it,* but it was kinda fun. And as CM said, troll or not it was an interesting exercise.


I think you maybe giving folks way too much credit.


----------



## jaquen

Madman1 said:


> Cosmos, I'm impressed that you even know that, thanks for narrowing it down.
> 
> I confess that I don't get the line from Richard III, ha ha, let alone why angry Tony used it.
> 
> But I'm content to swim back under the Lilly pads since I got off of his hook.
> 
> Thanks!


"Tony" used it, and modified it, to mock Kobo since Kobo has that line in their signature.


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## WorkingOnMe

jaquen said:


> I think you maybe giving folks way too much credit.


Haha I hinted at it in my second post. But didn't say it cause I didn't want to get banned again.


----------



## Catherine602

WorkingOnMe said:


> Oh come on. We all knew it, but it was kinda fun. And as CM said, troll or not it was an interesting exercise.


I agree it was one of the best trollithreads. The discussions were good. Someone should start a thread entitled... You know it's a trollithread when... 

Angry Tony wan't a good troll because he could not complete his story before outing himself. He identified so closely with AT that he outed himself to insult the posters who annoyed him.

Hey AT - I hope trolling is not all you do in your Mom's basement. That mold on the wall causes brain damage you know. I think there was a quote from animal house "You can't go through life being fat, and stupid" I'll add "and a loser".


----------



## tom67

Catherine602 said:


> I agree it was one of the best trollithreads. The discussions were good. Someone should start a thread entitled... You know it's a trollithread when...
> 
> Angry Tony wan't a good troll because he could not complete his story before outing himself. He identified so closely with AT that he outed himself to insult the posters who annoyed him.
> 
> Hey AT - I hope trolling is not all you do in your Mom's basement. That mold on the wall causes brain damage you know. I think there was a quote from animal house "You can't go through life being fat, and stupid" I'll add "and a loser".


Over? Was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbour? Sorry that was another classic.


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## Catherine602

Cosmos said:


> The quote is presumably from Shakespeare's "Richard III"
> 
> _
> "In thy foul throat thou liest: Queen Margaret saw
> Thy murderous falchion smoking in his blood;
> The which thou once didst bend against her breast,
> But that thy brothers beat aside the point."_


He got that wrong too. it should have been to Becky he spake. 

In thy foul throat thou liest: Brad saw
Thy wonton fornication and deciet 
That thou didest bend at thy waist 
But that thy lover threw open thy dark shroud


----------



## Caribbean Man

Catherine602 said:


> He got that wrong too. it should have been to Becky he spake.
> 
> In thy foul throat thou liest: Brad saw
> Thy wonton fornication and deciet
> That thou didest bend at thy waist
> But that thy lover threw open thy dark shroud


Catherine, you're good!
Lol,
Complete with_ Chaucer's prose_ et al.

_"..''Love is a thyng as any spirit free. 
Wommen, of kynde, desiren libertee, 
And nat to been constreyned as a thral; 
And so doon men, if I sooth seyen shal..''_


----------

