# Women should not belittle men - please explain?



## madimoff

The following quote, from Syrum, from another thread, had me wondering again exactly WHAT it is men consider to be belittling (and yes, I know everyone's different, but if you had to tell an alien in a few words) 
'Women should not belittle men, they don't feel like real men and you don't find them attractive, and men shouldn't allow it to happen.'
Just so you know, I for one don't think I more than slightly understand men's perspective of respect and belittling and would sincerely like to get some kind of handle on it


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## Syrum

I will answer it seeing as I said it. 

Do not call him and idiot, a moron, do not tell him he's slow etc.
- I have seen this many times, H forgets to do something important or even not important, and W says "You idiot we really needed that, do I have to do everything myself!" 
-Instead W might say, "Oh that's no good, we are all ways forgetting things, between us both we almost have one whole memory (I forget things all the time so it's true)" then think about if you really need it right then or if it can wait. 

- Driving with H he gets lost, W gets mad and says "you all ways get us lost and never ask for direction, now we are lost you stupid ****.

-Instead W could say "Do you think we should ask for directions." then make light of being lost because nothing will change it and there is no point making him feel like shyte about it and ruining every ones day.

Do not correct everything he does because it's not the way you would do it. If he's pitching in and doing stuff great, don't try and control it, that is belittling to men.

Do not make out he cannot handle things and can't make good decisions. Don't be angry if he has made a bad decision, show some faith that you trust him, and that he is a capable adult. This does not mean he shouldn't consult you or that you should put up with someone making decisions that hurt the relationship. I'm not talking about major things here. 
-I mean you have different ideas on where to buy groceries and he picks an expensive grocery store. He will know it's expensive and you can say "phew that is more than I expected" but do not say "I knew it, why do you all ways do this stuff, are you stupid? Look at how much that's cost us."

Don't dismiss his concerns about things as foolish, you wouldn't want yours dismissed.

When you do stuff like like this, it takes away their confidence as men, undermines them and makes you not like them, because then they stop doing things, stop pulling their weight round the place, don't take charge of things and basically act unmanly.

I think men tend to forget to appreciate their wives and they stop standing up for themslevs and women tend to belittle their husbands (no not all).


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## MardiGrasMambo

Sounds to me a lot like the Golden Rule and one of Mem's alternative versions: Do not let others do unto you as they would not let you do unto them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MisterNiceGuy

> Do not make out he cannot handle things and can't make good decisions. Don't be angry if he has made a bad decision, show some faith that you trust him, and that he is a capable adult. This does not mean he shouldn't consult you or that you should put up with someone making decisions that hurt the relationship. I'm not talking about major things here.


Wife just did this to me yesterday. One of the kids was having a fit about doing something with the family that he didn't want to do. After a few minutes of a temper tantrum, I declared that this is what we were doing! My youngest starts to throw a fit and my wife steps in and says we are doing something completely different! I pulled her aside (I would've never done this in the past, I would've rolled over) and told her in no uncertain terms that I had made the decision and that she stepped all over me! Her decision might have been the right one, but she needed to pull me aside and collaborate with me instead of declaring a solution in front of the kids. It makes me look weak and I'm not putting up with it anymore...


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## Syrum

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Wife just did this to me yesterday. One of the kids was having a fit about doing something with the family that he didn't want to do. After a few minutes of a temper tantrum, I declared that this is what we were doing! My youngest starts to throw a fit and my wife steps in and says we are doing something completely different! I pulled her aside (I would've never done this in the past, I would've rolled over) and told her in no uncertain terms that I had made the decision and that she stepped all over me! Her decision might have been the right one, but she needed to pull me aside and collaborate with me instead of declaring a solution in front of the kids. It makes me look weak and I'm not putting up with it anymore...


Yep that's exactly what I mean. That's not cool of her. And good on you for standing up to her.


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## surfergirl

MisterNiceGuy said:


> Wife just did this to me yesterday. One of the kids was having a fit about doing something with the family that he didn't want to do. After a few minutes of a temper tantrum, I declared that this is what we were doing! My youngest starts to throw a fit and my wife steps in and says we are doing something completely different! I pulled her aside (I would've never done this in the past, I would've rolled over) and told her in no uncertain terms that I had made the decision and that she stepped all over me! Her decision might have been the right one, but she needed to pull me aside and collaborate with me instead of declaring a solution in front of the kids. It makes me look weak and I'm not putting up with it anymore...


Good for you MNG - that is so very cool! 

How did your wife respond?


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## madimoff

Syrum said:


> I will answer it seeing as I said it.
> 
> Do not call him and idiot, a moron, do not tell him he's slow etc.
> - I have seen this many times, H forgets to do something important or even not important, and W says "You idiot we really needed that, do I have to do everything myself!"
> -Instead W might say, "Oh that's no good, we are all ways forgetting things, between us both we almost have one whole memory (I forget things all the time so it's true)" then think about if you really need it right then or if it can wait.
> 
> - Driving with H he gets lost, W gets mad and says "you all ways get us lost and never ask for direction, now we are lost you stupid ****.
> 
> -Instead W could say "Do you think we should ask for directions." then make light of being lost because nothing will change it and there is no point making him feel like shyte about it and ruining every ones day.
> 
> Do not correct everything he does because it's not the way you would do it. If he's pitching in and doing stuff great, don't try and control it, that is belittling to men.
> 
> Do not make out he cannot handle things and can't make good decisions. Don't be angry if he has made a bad decision, show some faith that you trust him, and that he is a capable adult. This does not mean he shouldn't consult you or that you should put up with someone making decisions that hurt the relationship. I'm not talking about major things here.
> -I mean you have different ideas on where to buy groceries and he picks an expensive grocery store. He will know it's expensive and you can say "phew that is more than I expected" but do not say "I knew it, why do you all ways do this stuff, are you stupid? Look at how much that's cost us."
> 
> Don't dismiss his concerns about things as foolish, you wouldn't want yours dismissed.
> 
> When you do stuff like like this, it takes away their confidence as men, undermines them and makes you not like them, because then they stop doing things, stop pulling their weight round the place, don't take charge of things and basically act unmanly.
> 
> I think men tend to forget to appreciate their wives and they stop standing up for themslevs and women tend to belittle their husbands (no not all).


So is that list an either or, or are you only belittling if you do a selection? Because I seriously only recognise one (preferring to do things differently and unwittingly correcting - for example loading dishwasher, where to plug in toaster, trivia like that!!!!!!)




MisterNiceGuy said:


> Wife just did this to me yesterday. One of the kids was having a fit about doing something with the family that he didn't want to do. After a few minutes of a temper tantrum, I declared that this is what we were doing! My youngest starts to throw a fit and my wife steps in and says we are doing something completely different! I pulled her aside (I would've never done this in the past, I would've rolled over) and told her in no uncertain terms that I had made the decision and that she stepped all over me! Her decision might have been the right one, but she needed to pull me aside and collaborate with me instead of declaring a solution in front of the kids. It makes me look weak and I'm not putting up with it anymore...


I'd say that is undermining a parent, not specifically belittling a man; it's the kind of thing I and possibly many parents recognise, whether male or female and it harms parenting for either gender (I suppose I mean both actually)


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## Anooniemouse

The worst is speaking ill of your husband in the company of others. Nothing like a little public humiliation to really make romance work. 

I consider it incredibly disrespectful, and I cringe when I hear couples that do it. All I can think is this is the person your words are supposed to build up, and praise; here you are trashing them the world, worse, in front of them. That makes me want to cry to watch.


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## Draguna

Well, what has been posted here pretty much sums it up. Only thing I can think of is to say that the man is not a man, weak and completely useless, but that is abuse I guess.


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## SoCalKat

One of the marriage books I have says to never, ever criticize your spouse for any reason.


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## madimoff

SoCalKat said:


> One of the marriage books I have says to never, ever criticize your spouse for any reason.


Yessss - Surrendered Wife suggests not even pointing out if you've gone tens of miles past your correct turn:scratchhead:

So did that particular book mean spouse of either gender


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## Syrum

madimoff said:


> Yessss - Surrendered Wife suggests not even pointing out if you've gone tens of miles past your correct turn:scratchhead:
> 
> So did that particular book mean spouse of either gender


I think that's a bit far, nothing wrong with politely pointing something out, just don't abuse someone or belittle them for it.


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## madimoff

It really leaves me scratching my head though to know what IS and what ISN'T regarded as belittling, despite the kind attempt to define.
For my OH I suspect his oversensitivity (and newly-identified words of affirmation love language) makes many more things belittling or demeaning to him than might be important to others.
Of course I realise he'd say Iḿ always picking up on his heightened perceptions, and/or that what others think is totally irrelevant, and to some extent that's true.
But how many women actually DO really

Call them an idiot, moron, tell them they're slow etc?

Correct _everything_ they do because it's not the way you would do it? 
(I'd fess up to this being my personal belittler, though not EVERYthing!)

Make out they cannot handle things or make good decisions.
(actually with my honesty hat on I'd recognise a gut response of questioning things he's done - not criticising or ultimately saying they're wrong because generally I don't believe they are, but I guess even questioning would count as sufficient?)

Dismiss concerns about things as foolish, you wouldn't want yours dismissed.

Can anyone put into words what it is about their own male psyche that is fragile to this particular ḱind of 'chipping away?'


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## woodstock

I am quite guilty as charged on that one. Sometimes it is just me being too honest, or being "duh... why did you do that, or what did you think was supposed to happen" but mostly when he does something where I have made the mistake before and I am like "geez, that was dumb.." Just stoopid things (kinda did it the other night when he told me he bought a printer for printing out pictures and I was like OOOOO Not smart... way cheaper to just have them done at CVS... ) which I had told him before but... I should not have hadnled it the way I did (especially right now where we are working on somethings, it came out all wrong).

It is a bad habit I got into throughout our relationship when I got tired of seeing him do the easy thing, and stopped being too nice when I told him that. We ended up in a mother/child thing too often and I have to stop my end of things on that if we are going to work. Sometimes it is just about struggling to get him to see the obvious, sometimes it is just about me being mangry/resentful/hurt and wanting him not to know it, but to feel like me... Silliness crap that ended up invading our relationship over time, mostly from lack of proper communication.

I think when it comes down to it, even when they act like children (come on, you know you do HAHA) they don't want to be treated like them, and women are more like, well, if you are gonna act like a dumb kid, I will treat you like one....


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## madimoff

I suppose I'm starting to see (thanks NOT woodstock!!) that I've done it rather a lot, actually...... doesn't help if you're a very practical woman with a somewhat cackhanded (he'd admit it himself if he were here) man who really WANTS to be the one putting up his son's basketball net and doesn't appreciate being told he's drilling the holes too big for wallplugs too small..... That kind of thing? 
One way we've avoided one of our biggest fight-fests is to allow each other a garden plot each. No point at all gardening together, we're disagreeing on technique the whole time so this way it's fret-free AND competitive
So with no small gritting of teeth, I reckon maybe I'm (finally) wising up a bit. Better tell him sometime, I suppose...........


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## woodstock

just wondering what "thanks NOT woddstock" means. Seems to me you and I are a little bit the same with similar "hims" in our lives. At least given the example of the B-ball net (very much what I am talking about).

Not to mention even the personality that will say... "better telhim sometimes, I suppose...." LMAO exactly what I would have said if I thought of it HAAAAA


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## madimoff

I just meant I'm wising up almost grudgingly, having reckoned for ages that his oversensitivity plays a far greater part in our problems than anything I do..... so having been kicked in this direction by others and within the past 24h by some of your posts, it was a sarcastic 'THANKS Woodstock (not)' - maybe not Jersey humor????!!!!

Actually, one day the past weekend he actually said - without me pushing or nagging or anything - 'The list of things that upset me is as long as my arm' Thank goodness he's starting to realise! When I then very carefully said 'actually, I expect if you wrote it it WOULD be as long as your arm or longer' he didn't flip, he kind of smiled and accepted it


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## woodstock

madimoff said:


> I just meant I'm wising up almost grudgingly, having reckoned for ages that his oversensitivity plays a far greater part in our problems than anything I do..... so having been kicked in this direction by others and within the past 24h by some of your posts, it was a sarcastic 'THANKS Woodstock (not)' - maybe not Jersey humor????!!!!
> 
> Actually, one day the past weekend he actually said - without me pushing or nagging or anything - 'The list of things that upset me is as long as my arm' Thank goodness he's starting to realise! When I then very carefully said 'actually, I expect if you wrote it it WOULD be as long as your arm or longer' he didn't flip, he kind of smiled and accepted it


HAHA Now I get it. Wish there was a font for sarcasm... Never works right in type LMAO

Well, gotta say, I have come to several realizations recently about y part in relationship woes, but still.... I am woman, I am NOT wrong HAAAAA And dammit... telling him I know my faults and I was wrong? WTF!!! SOOOOO Unatural for estrogen!!! ARG 

So... I "suppose" I will tell him... eventually (and probably after a few pints at the pub HAHAH Maybe if he has more than a few too :rofl: )


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## 4sure

Syrum said:


> I will answer it seeing as I said it.
> 
> Do not call him and idiot, a moron, do not tell him he's slow etc.
> - I have seen this many times, H forgets to do something important or even not important, and W says "You idiot we really needed that, do I have to do everything myself!"
> -Instead W might say, "Oh that's no good, we are all ways forgetting things, between us both we almost have one whole memory (I forget things all the time so it's true)" then think about if you really need it right then or if it can wait.
> 
> - Driving with H he gets lost, W gets mad and says "you all ways get us lost and never ask for direction, now we are lost you stupid ****.
> 
> -Instead W could say "Do you think we should ask for directions." then make light of being lost because nothing will change it and there is no point making him feel like shyte about it and ruining every ones day.
> 
> Do not correct everything he does because it's not the way you would do it. If he's pitching in and doing stuff great, don't try and control it, that is belittling to men.
> 
> Do not make out he cannot handle things and can't make good decisions. Don't be angry if he has made a bad decision, show some faith that you trust him, and that he is a capable adult. This does not mean he shouldn't consult you or that you should put up with someone making decisions that hurt the relationship. I'm not talking about major things here.
> -I mean you have different ideas on where to buy groceries and he picks an expensive grocery store. He will know it's expensive and you can say "phew that is more than I expected" but do not say "I knew it, why do you all ways do this stuff, are you stupid? Look at how much that's cost us."
> 
> Don't dismiss his concerns about things as foolish, you wouldn't want yours dismissed.
> 
> When you do stuff like like this, it takes away their confidence as men, undermines them and makes you not like them, because then they stop doing things, stop pulling their weight round the place, don't take charge of things and basically act unmanly.
> 
> I think men tend to forget to appreciate their wives and they stop standing up for themslevs and women tend to belittle their husbands (no not all).



:iagree: Don't belittle him sexually.

I can talk with my H about things he does I don't like in private, and he's cool with it. It is a major no-no for me to disrepect him or embarrass him in public.


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## SoCalKat

madimoff said:


> Yessss - Surrendered Wife suggests not even pointing out if you've gone tens of miles past your correct turn:scratchhead:
> 
> So did that particular book mean spouse of either gender


Yes, that is correct. You shouldn't criticize, belittle or point out flaws. That has a wearing effect over time that will hurt your relationship.


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## okeydokie

focus on the situation, issue or BEHAVIOR, NOT ON THE PERSON. works like a charm


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## IanIronwood

4sure said:


> :iagree: Don't belittle him sexually.
> 
> I can talk with my H about things he does I don't like in private, and he's cool with it. It is a major no-no for me to disrepect him or embarrass him in public.


I think it goes beyond that: a lot of women think nothing of discussing their intimate lives with their best girlfriends for feedback, advice, etc. A lot of times that can come back and bit him in the ass, like when my SIL was pissed off at me over something my wife revealed that we did. But when a guy mentions something similar to his friends, it's often a huge blow out about privacy and intimacy and betrayal and such. The fact is, we don't like being discussed with your friends and subjected to their judgement any more than you like it when it happens to you -- and when it does happen, and something we thought was private is suddenly a subject for every woman you know to discuss with you, if feels belittling and violating.

Sometimes its more subtle: like using "w" words instead of "c" words. That's a pretty common one. You may think nothing of asking your husband "Can you drop by and pick up the dry-cleaning", but the phraseology is important; what you're doing is essentially questioning his ability to accomplish the task. What you mean is actually "WILL you go by and pick up the dry cleaning", which instead of challenging his competence instead invokes his willingness to assist. Sure, you both knew what you meant, and the message was communicated, but I guarantee that the man who is asked "will you?" feels a lot better (and a lot less demeaned) by the question than the man who is asked "can you?"

Yes, it's a little thing. So was "Ms.", once upon a time.


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## madimoff

IanIronwood said:


> Sometimes its more subtle: like using "w" words instead of "c" words. That's a pretty common one. You may think nothing of asking your husband "Can you drop by and pick up the dry-cleaning", but the phraseology is important; what you're doing is essentially questioning his ability to accomplish the task. What you mean is actually "WILL you go by and pick up the dry cleaning", which instead of challenging his competence instead invokes his willingness to assist. Sure, you both knew what you meant, and the message was communicated, but I guarantee that the man who is asked "will you?" feels a lot better (and a lot less demeaned) by the question than the man who is asked "can you?"
> Yes, it's a little thing. So was "Ms.", once upon a time.


SERIOUSLY??? I always avoid would or will like the plague because it seems almost a demand whereas could (I rarely use can) it more of a polite request - I *thought* !!


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## IanIronwood

madimoff said:


> SERIOUSLY??? I always avoid would or will like the plague because it seems almost a demand whereas could (I rarely use can) it more of a polite request - I *thought* !!


Change it up a little and see if you notice any change in reaction. Then ask about it. You might be surprised what you hear.


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## Trenton

It's like when you asked the teacher in school, "Can I go to the bathroom."

-and they responded-

"I don't know, can you?"

-and then you responded by farting-

OK, sorry, I got caught up in the fart humor from another thread. Semantics are our enemy and our friend. That is my actual point.


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## Mrs.G

I'm guilty of the name calling at times. My husband is much more educated and older than me. He should be able to read a fuccing food label, for God's sake.
I get annoyed when he does stupid things like consistently buying the wrong items for dinner.
He moved into this ugly and poorly maintained building before we met. I have asked him repeatedly why he would do so with a high budget! Duhh?! 
The older and more educated spouse should know better than the actions I have detailed.

To my credit, I have shifted from insulting him to insulting the behavior e.g "That was stupid." as opposed to "You are stupid." I have also lovingly reminded him to read food labels. My husband is no pushover; he has firmly put the brakes on the belittling too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lime

This is a tough issue... I know in my relationship, conflict resolution has gotten a lot better recently, but my SO's natural tendency is to fight dirty--as in sighing, eye rolling, huffing and puffing, being passive aggressive, nitpicking details instead of addressing the main issue. In these cases, I don't belittle him, so much as call him out on that behavior. A few times, he's told me to stop embarrassing him--and I've told him to stop embarrassing himself.

Luckily we've mostly gotten through that stage. But the point is--if you want to be treated like a man, you need to act like a man. If you're a woman and want your SO to act like a man, then you have to treat him like a man. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


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## surfergirl

IanIronwood said:


> Sometimes its more subtle: like using "w" words instead of "c" words. That's a pretty common one. You may think nothing of asking your husband "Can you drop by and pick up the dry-cleaning", but the phraseology is important; what you're doing is essentially questioning his ability to accomplish the task. What you mean is actually "WILL you go by and pick up the dry cleaning", which instead of challenging his competence instead invokes his willingness to assist. Sure, you both knew what you meant, and the message was communicated, but I guarantee that the man who is asked "will you?" feels a lot better (and a lot less demeaned) by the question than the man who is asked "can you?"
> 
> Yes, it's a little thing. So was "Ms.", once upon a time.


I read about using "would" instead of "could or can" years ago when I was looking for ways to get my sons to respond to requests better. It blew me away at how effective just changing one little word was - it still amazes me!

It's become the natural way that I request things from the males in my life now.

I go one step further though and put a time at the end of the request.....like...."Would you please blah-blah-blah after you've finished what you are doing/on your way out the door/before you start something else?".


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## madimoff

lime said:


> This is a tough issue... I know in my relationship, conflict resolution has gotten a lot better recently, but my SO's natural tendency is to fight dirty--as in sighing, eye rolling, huffing and puffing, being passive aggressive, nitpicking details instead of addressing the main issue. In these cases, I don't belittle him, so much as call him out on that behavior. A few times, he's told me to stop embarrassing him--and I've told him to stop embarrassing himself.
> 
> Luckily we've mostly gotten through that stage. But the point is--if you want to be treated like a man, you need to act like a man. *If you're a woman and want your SO to act like a man, then you have to treat him like a man. * Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


Same thing different way of putting it, and I'm only slightly the wiser; I'm still struggling with (or stubbornly refusing to accept - though I hope it's the first!) the notion that men have some inbuilt need to be treated as 'leader' or have I totally got the wrong end of the proverbial?


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## Syrum

Trenton said:


> It's like when you asked the teacher in school, "Can I go to the bathroom."
> 
> -and they responded-
> 
> "I don't know, can you?"
> 
> -and then you responded by farting-
> 
> OK, sorry, I got caught up in the fart humor from another thread. Semantics are our enemy and our friend. That is my actual point.


:rofl:


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## Runs like Dog

I don't know where woman learned that constant correction and nagging is a good thing. Where did they learn that if she just complains and nags a little bit more life would be perfect. And how far gone are we that we have to discuss whether that's a good thing or not?


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## woodstock

Runs like Dog said:


> I don't know where woman learned that constant correction and nagging is a good thing. Where did they learn that if she just complains and nags a little bit more life would be perfect. And how far gone are we that we have to discuss whether that's a good thing or not?


personally? learned it from being a single mother who has no choice but to constantly remind the young child who has not developed certain self discipline and decision making abilities. 

if I don't correct her, no one will, she will not learn and become a rotten loser of a teen for which I will be greatly embarrassed and unable to show my face for the crappy product I put out on the market 

Now... to turn off the mom for the "him" not always easy... keep that in mind boys, that if the she is spending much of her time at work/home playing the instructor, the one responsible for getting it done, correcting people..... take into consideration, that there is no on/off switch (OMG I wish there was!!!!!!!!!)

So.... that's where it comes from


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## madimoff

But further to Woodstock's insight (jeez I hate to see it but maybe you've got a point!) whoever defined nagging and belittling as the same thing? I can see correction as being belittling - almost without exception, though don't ask me for an exception I just feel there must be some; but nagging? There are just too many definitions of that one for it to count, surely?


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## woodstock

Nagging does not have to be belittling and I don't really think it has to be the other way around either, but if you are doing one on a regular basis, it is likely you are doing the other HAHA

Though I don't belittle my daughter, she does tend to call me nag more often than mom, but then that might just be early onset hormones of the "girl" OH GOOD LORD!!!! Someone pass me a gun so I can get out of mothering the teenage girl!!!!!
:BoomSmilie_anim:


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## Runs like Dog

It's like the scales have fallen from my eyes. Two women right here assert nagging, basically being an annoying terrier is a noble and good thing. And here I've been wrongly thinking my whole that being a relentless beotch is pretty much just being a relentless beotch. Of course my own wife frames it a bit differently. She's every second of the day 'teasing'. Most people would call it pathological sadism but she calls it 'teasing'.


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## woodstock

Runs like Dog said:


> It's like the scales have fallen from my eyes. Two women right here assert nagging, basically being an annoying terrier is a noble and good thing. And here I've been wrongly thinking my whole that being a relentless beotch is pretty much just being a relentless beotch. Of course my own wife frames it a bit differently. She's every second of the day 'teasing'. Most people would call it pathological sadism but she calls it 'teasing'.



Who the hell says it's nobel? I never said it was a good thing, or that I liked it, I was just honest about where it comes from, as I recall, that's what you asked isn't it?


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## Runs like Dog

What I asked by implication was at what point did you (or anyone) come to the conclusion it was necessary, not even a necessary evil, but simply your job to henpeck? I have 3 children, I'm familiar with how to get them to do things. I also know a lot about picking the hill you want to die on. But that's not the point. The point is, when process, what screwed mental wiring goes bad to convince your erstwhile loving spouse to turn into a cartoon character?


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## woodstock

Not at all intentional, just ends up coming naturally. I personally spend time trying NOT to do it, but of course I will slip. AND sorry, but sometimes he NEEDS the nag or seriously, he will be less likely to get things done than the 9 yr old. Meanwhile, I have no choice but to get er done when it needs to be done. Maybe sometimes I would like to be the one to just NOT do it, but then who would do it for me?

ARG, ok so maybe there is a jealousy factor stuck in there, but that is MY situation, only you can say what it is in yours


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## Runs like Dog

Yeah I don't work that way. I have enough bosses. I don't need another. Ask me once, maybe twice. If you still goddamn need it done your way your time then do it yourself. I'm not an idiot. I might be doing something else or even ignoring your anxiety right now. 

Give you a fr'instance. My wife is positively obsessed about the air in her tires. Of course no matter how many times I show her how to check the pressure herself or put air in herself she won't do it. She'll obsess and gnaw and gnaw at that until I just give up and do it. 90% of the time NOTHING has to be done. But apparently she has a need to see herself pushing me around to do 'it' whatever it is, even if it's nothing. 

One of these days I'm going under the car with aviation shears and those brake lines are gonna go......just kidding?


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## woodstock

Runs like Dog said:


> Yeah I don't work that way. I have enough bosses. I don't need another. Ask me once, maybe twice. If you still goddamn need it done your way your time then do it yourself. I'm not an idiot. I might be doing something else or even ignoring your anxiety right now.
> 
> Give you a fr'instance. My wife is positively obsessed about the air in her tires. Of course no matter how many times I show her how to check the pressure herself or put air in herself she won't do it. She'll obsess and gnaw and gnaw at that until I just give up and do it. 90% of the time NOTHING has to be done. But apparently she has a need to see herself pushing me around to do 'it' whatever it is, even if it's nothing.
> 
> One of these days I'm going under the car with aviation shears and those brake lines are gonna go......just kidding?


Well crap, that I can and DO do myself, but when it comes to fixing certain things (like the lawnmower for instance) I can't. I would likely end up being the one to mow the lawn, fine, I HATE it but fine, I will do it... BUT it is HIS job to FIX it because i CAN'T and he would get mad if I paid someone to, so YA then i am gonna nag so that I CAN end up just doing it my way myself HAAAAAAA 

Stooopid lawn!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA But see.... it does go both ways, and sometimes, I mean, what are ya gonna do? when ya gotta nag ya gotta nag!!


----------



## 4sure

IanIronwood said:


> I think it goes beyond that: a lot of women think nothing of discussing their intimate lives with their best girlfriends for feedback, advice, etc.



I don't do this. I don't want to run the risk of some other woman wanting my man. Yes best girlfriends have been known to go after their friends man.


----------



## madimoff

Runs like Dog says:**It's like the scales have fallen from my eyes. Two women right here assert nagging, basically being an annoying terrier is a noble and good thing. <<<<<< Most people would call it pathological sadism but she calls it 'teasing'. 
Madimoff says: Tosh & piffle for the first part - neither of us did that! Perceptions rule ko! And most people would call something like that pathological sadism - well I never! Perceptions again!!!!!
Back to the plot - I just don't see why nagging should (a) be perceived as something ONLY bad (if it is) in women OR why nagging by a woman of a man should be regarded as any more belittling than by a man of a woman


----------



## Syrum

> Give you a fr'instance. My wife is positively obsessed about the air in her tires. Of course no matter how many times I show her how to check the pressure herself or put air in herself she won't do it. She'll obsess and gnaw and gnaw at that until I just give up and do it. 90% of the time NOTHING has to be done. But apparently she has a need to see herself pushing me around to do 'it' whatever it is, even if it's nothing.


I don't push my fiance around, but we both just do nice things for each because we love each other. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have to nag him to do something like check my tyres because he just likes doing things like that for me, just as he wouldn't have to nag me to wash his socks. 

I would hate to think my future husband hated helping me out, and I love giving to him.


----------



## woodstock

Syrum said:


> I don't push my fiance around, but we both just do nice things for each because we love each other. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have to nag him to do something like check my tyres because he just likes doing things like that for me, just as he wouldn't have to nag me to wash his socks.
> 
> I would hate to think my future husband hated helping me out, and I love giving to him.


See now, my SO was all nice and doing things at first, but THEN HAAAAA OMG it was like a bad sitcom LMAO

I did get THE rationalization for it though.. he informed me that *giggle* he had just gotten comfortable and that kind of thing just happens :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: I felt like I was in a Rosanne episode that day HAAAAAAAA But that's what he told me...

My reaction was "well then how do I make you UNcomfortable again" HAAAAAAAAAAAAA


----------



## woodstock

madimoff said:


> Runs like Dog says:**It's like the scales have fallen from my eyes. Two women right here assert nagging, basically being an annoying terrier is a noble and good thing. <<<<<< Most people would call it pathological sadism but she calls it 'teasing'.
> Madimoff says: Tosh & piffle for the first part - neither of us did that! Perceptions rule ko! And most people would call something like that pathological sadism - well I never! Perceptions again!!!!!
> Back to the plot - I just don't see why nagging should (a) be perceived as something ONLY bad (if it is) in women OR why nagging by a woman of a man should be regarded as any more belittling than by a man of a woman


I guess you could call it belittling when I borrowed the SO's power tools for a home project and when I called and told him that I had no problem getting them, he got all nervous telling me to wait till he got there NOT so that he could be nice and do it FOR me.. but because he thought I would cut off a finger :rofl::rofl: I guess I should explain that when working together HE was the one draining the supplies of the first aid kit... NOT me HAAAAAAA (and that I am pretty good with tools/building and such. Lessons learned in life and I loved working in construction for a while) Anyway... I didn't feel belittled so much as DUDE don't you pay attention.. I am not an idgit nor am I THAT woman, the one who is afraid of the powerdrill!!! HAAAAAA Maybe I should also mention that when I had helped him with his landscaping biz, he had no problem putting a 5 ton leaf blower on my back or handing me a weedwacker 2 feet taller than ME!!! I WISH he had noticed then that I may be able to handle some tools but I am NOT the woman entering body building shows or power lifting in my spare time HAAAAA


Silly men!!!!


----------



## woodstock

4sure said:


> I don't do this. I don't want to run the risk of some other woman wanting my man. Yes best girlfriends have been known to go after their friends man.


First, I obviously don't know how to quote multiple people in one post HAAAAAA Sorry, I really don't 

Anyway... OMG I tell my best friend everything, she tell me TMI!!!!!! (Trenton :rofl: ) but I explained to my SO that if women did NOT have their best GF's to talk it out with, all men would end up bobbitized (beware the robobbit if a women does not have good friends HAHA) Other women speak out language and in the end a GOOD BFF will be stright up honest and tell you when it's your fault and help you find a way to make it work if that's what you want, and support you no matter how many times you make mistakes, or how many times you say you are never going back... then do :rofl: TRENTON YOU ROCK HAHA

Women analyze it all more, AND we have no problem telling each other, there is no "well women just don't talk about that stuff with each other" like you have with men. If men don't get the women sharing thing.... just know that we cannot, for the life of us, figure out why you all don't have your own support networks with other men in order to bi#ch about us, or get other men's opinions about a situation.... HOW WEIRD IS THAT?


----------



## Syrum

4sure said:


> I don't do this. I don't want to run the risk of some other woman wanting my man. Yes best girlfriends have been known to go after their friends man.


I don't do it, but not for that reason, because men can only be "gotten" if they allow it.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

Where the confusion comes in for me sometimes is 'what is considered belittling for each man' - I'm sure it's different and each man is not the same.

What sounds to me like 'talking about my feelings' tends to sound like belittling to my husband?

This last week he HAS been opening up more and letting me know what bothers him in a "constructive way" which helps to not put me on the defensive.

Just yesterday he asked me why I kept staring at him. I told him the truth - because you are handsome and I like looking at you. He then told me the truth that when I stare at him it makes him suspicious that I think something is wrong with him. So, guess I gotta stop staring.

Point being - if I was a woman and my husband was 'staring' at me, I would feel flattered that he wanted to look at me. But HE doesn't see if that way.

So, I keep walking through those minefields trying to figure out where our differences are on how we 'perceive' what we do and say to each other. Because he's finally started opening up some I'm learning a lot.

And the journey continues...


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

4sure said:


> I don't do this. I don't want to run the risk of some other woman wanting my man. Yes best girlfriends have been known to go after their friends man.


That's why you don't have any or you make sure they look like Phyllis Diller!


----------



## woodstock

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Where the confusion comes in for me sometimes is 'what is considered belittling for each man' - I'm sure it's different and each man is not the same.
> 
> What sounds to me like 'talking about my feelings' tends to sound like belittling to my husband?
> 
> This last week he HAS been opening up more and letting me know what bothers him in a "constructive way" which helps to not put me on the defensive.
> 
> Just yesterday he asked me why I kept staring at him. I told him the truth - because you are handsome and I like looking at you. He then told me the truth that when I stare at him it makes him suspicious that I think something is wrong with him. So, guess I gotta stop staring.
> 
> Point being - if I was a woman and my husband was 'staring' at me, I would feel flattered that he wanted to look at me. But HE doesn't see if that way.
> 
> So, I keep walking through those minefields trying to figure out where our differences are on how we 'perceive' what we do and say to each other. Because he's finally started opening up some I'm learning a lot.
> 
> And the journey continues...


Nah, just work on your facial expression when you stare, and come up with a REALLY good, sly, coy, naughty smirk for when he catches you LMAO Then he will LOVE when you look at him


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

Runs like Dog said:


> I don't know where woman learned that constant correction and nagging is a good thing. Where did they learn that if she just complains and nags a little bit more life would be perfect. And how far gone are we that we have to discuss whether that's a good thing or not?


But it's not just women who do this.

Men actually do it too. In fact, if I was to keep track (honestly), my husband corrects me and nags at me MORE than I do him. 

But - he doesn't see it this way - its 'talking' when it comes FROM him, but 'b*tching' when it comes FROM me.

I believe men/women do both - but it's perceived differently. Us women have gotten a bad rap.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

woodstock said:


> Nah, just work on your facial expression when you stare, and come up with a REALLY good, sly, coy, naughty smirk for when he catches you LMAO Then he will LOVE when you look at him


Yeah - I was thinking along the lines of - I was just thinking how good it would feel if I **** your ****, then **** your ***.

That would make him sit up and notice huh?

Might have to try that...:smthumbup:


----------



## Syrum

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> But it's not just women who do this.
> 
> Men actually do it too. In fact, if I was to keep track (honestly), my husband corrects me and nags at me MORE than I do him.
> 
> But - he doesn't see it this way - its 'talking' when it comes FROM him, but 'b*tching' when it comes FROM me.
> 
> I believe men/women do both - but it's perceived differently. Us women have gotten a bad rap.


This is true, and I'm not talking about asking someone nicely to do something, my fiance likes to be reminded nicely or asked nicely. But I'm sure he wouldn't like it if he forgot and I embaressed or admonished him over it. 

However if he gave me a little lecture or chastised me over something I forgot I would quite like it, it would actually probably turn me on, and I like pleasing him so I would try harder to remember.


----------



## MAD OBX

I'm a totally idiot and probably do more wrong in my relationship than all you guys do, so I'm in no position to give advice, but...

I believe this is a good example of the reason there are so many people struggling in relationships today. 

I don't believe anyone can 'belittle' anyone else. 

Being big or little is in your own mind. My wife says something negative about my driving, I laugh and say, "But honey, I'm a man. We can't ask for directions, it's in the Man Code." 

I think it is just human nature to occasionally get frustrated with your partner's quirks. 

She's not trying to 'undermine my manhood.' She's just human and frustrated. If I don't make a big deal out of it, she apologizes and probably will do it less often in the future. 

But if I make it about how she disrespects me as a man, the whole situation gets blown out of proportion. 

We need to get more self-respect. (me included - because I fall into this trap sometimes too) And self-respect doesn't mean getting defensive and taking offense every time someone treats you 'unfairly', 'unkindly', 'disrespectfully'. 

I think Dr. Phil and his colleagues have all filled us with nonsense about how we need to "teach people how to treat us." etc. 

No, I just think we need to be confident in our own worth as people, so that petty little squabbles don't throw us totally off balance. 

I struggled with this forever, so I understand where you guys are coming from.


----------



## madimoff

Well both MWIL & MADOBX have used my most used (OH would say over-used) word, namely perception; absolutely, chaps - its not what we do or say, but how what we do or say is perceived by the #1 recipient that determines the reaction made or given
MADOBX also touched on another one almost impossible to predict, improve or even unfortunately tweak even slightly - that's humour, lighthearted comments and anything of that nature
I'm convinced on the basis of our relationship that just the slightest difference in styles of humour coupled with skewed perceptions can make what's meant as an affectionate tease into a ***** from hell powerplay
(or maybe that's just us!!!!!!!!!)


----------



## MAD OBX

madimoff

I don't understand. Are you asking a specific question about how to improve your relationship with someone???

If your husband is feeling belittled by you it's probably not useful for you to find fault with it and tell him he needs to get self-esteem and a sense of humour. 

If you are secure in your own self-value and are interested in improving your relationship what would it cost you to be a little complimentary of your man???


----------



## 4sure

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> That's why you don't have any or you make sure they look like Phyllis Diller!


So true. I've been burned in the past so I'm careful what I say. If I talk about him sexually then I run the risk of exposing things about myself that I would not be comfortable with others knowing.


----------



## Conrad

madimoff said:


> Well both MWIL & MADOBX have used my most used (OH would say over-used) word, namely perception; absolutely, chaps - its not what we do or say, but how what we do or say is perceived by the #1 recipient that determines the reaction made or given
> MADOBX also touched on another one almost impossible to predict, improve or even unfortunately tweak even slightly - that's humour, lighthearted comments and anything of that nature
> I'm convinced on the basis of our relationship that just the slightest difference in styles of humour coupled with skewed perceptions can make what's meant as an affectionate tease into a ***** from hell powerplay
> (or maybe that's just us!!!!!!!!!)



Small funny is much different than big funny.

Before one decides to "tweak", it's important to remove the "self" component from the jab.


----------



## Syrum

MAD OBX said:


> I'm a totally idiot and probably do more wrong in my relationship than all you guys do, so I'm in no position to give advice, but...
> 
> I believe this is a good example of the reason there are so many people struggling in relationships today.
> 
> I don't believe anyone can 'belittle' anyone else.
> 
> Being big or little is in your own mind. My wife says something negative about my driving, I laugh and say, "But honey, I'm a man. We can't ask for directions, it's in the Man Code."
> 
> I think it is just human nature to occasionally get frustrated with your partner's quirks.
> 
> She's not trying to 'undermine my manhood.' She's just human and frustrated. If I don't make a big deal out of it, she apologizes and probably will do it less often in the future.
> 
> But if I make it about how she disrespects me as a man, the whole situation gets blown out of proportion.
> 
> We need to get more self-respect. (me included - because I fall into this trap sometimes too) And self-respect doesn't mean getting defensive and taking offense every time someone treats you 'unfairly', 'unkindly', 'disrespectfully'.
> 
> I think Dr. Phil and his colleagues have all filled us with nonsense about how we need to "teach people how to treat us." etc.
> 
> No, I just think we need to be confident in our own worth as people, so that petty little squabbles don't throw us totally off balance.
> 
> I struggled with this forever, so I understand where you guys are coming from.


I think that's a bad message to send because there are a lot of people that have good self worth untill they meet someone who continually brings them down.

there is a difference between occasionally losing your cool and saying something you regret and consistantly putting someone down and belittling them.

It's also fine to have a joke, but I do know people, men and women who call their spouses idiots or stupid, make statements like "you can't do anything right" etc. My fiance wouldn't do that to me and i wouldn't do it to him.


----------



## Conrad

The only way you can be "brought down" is if you allow someone else to "bring you down".

It's really up to the individual.


----------



## Syrum

Conrad said:


> The only way you can be "brought down" is if you allow someone else to "bring you down".
> 
> It's really up to the individual.


That's absolute rubbish, it is human nature, and that is worse than any Dr Phil message I have ever heard. I think so far as putting boundaries up, that yes men and women need to tell people that they won't put up with being treated a certain way, but the people putting others down also need to take responsibility for their actions and realise they can hurt their loved ones and others through their words and actions.

It's kind of like victim blaming.


----------



## Conrad

Sorry for polluting the board with "rubbish", but I think you overlook some important facts.

1) It's easy to be cool, detached, and aloof with people we aren't really "in to".

2) When our heart is "on the line", we tend to expose our own weaknesses. Yes, another person can be the catalyst, but we ALLOW them access to those parts of ourselves that are vulnerable.

3) That is a choice - even if a subconscious one.


----------



## Syrum

Conrad said:


> Sorry for polluting the board with "rubbish", but I think you overlook some important facts.
> 
> 1) It's easy to be cool, detached, and aloof with people we aren't really "in to".
> 
> 2) When our heart is "on the line", we tend to expose our own weaknesses. Yes, another person can be the catalyst, but we ALLOW them access to those parts of ourselves that are vulnerable.
> 
> 3) That is a choice - even if a subconscious one.


Honestly someone I don't know calling me stupid or names wouldn't be pleasant either. But yes I trust the one I love not to abuse the faith I have in him, but if he does and I am hurt is it my fault for trusting him or his fault for breaking the trust?


----------



## Conrad

Syrum said:


> Honestly someone I don't know calling me stupid or names wouldn't be pleasant either. But yes I trust the one I love not to abuse the faith I have in him, but if he does and I am hurt is it my fault for trusting him or his fault for breaking the trust?


Both


----------



## Syrum

Conrad said:


> Both


I disagree, people need to trust people and allow them in, in my opinion, to live a full happy life. I won't take responsibility for it if the person I trust starts treating me badly, belittling me and calling me names. That is on them.


If I start calling my fiance names and treating him badly for merely trying to do his best then I have a problem that needs addressing.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes

Conrad said:


> Sorry for polluting the board with "rubbish", but I think you overlook some important facts.
> 
> 1) It's easy to be cool, detached, and aloof with people we aren't really "in to".
> 
> 2) When our heart is "on the line", we tend to expose our own weaknesses. Yes, another person can be the catalyst, but we ALLOW them access to those parts of ourselves that are vulnerable.
> 
> 3) That is a choice - even if a subconscious one.


Conrad,
I agree 100%. Once I decide to stop letting what others say/think/feel about me but rather look inward about how I feel about myself, I will be happy and content. Who cares what somebody else thinks of me! They aren't living my life and I need to further focus on letting go of the need to feel appreciated/admired by others. I need to appreciate and admire myself.  Thank you Oracle.....once again you are the man with the answers.


----------



## Syrum

Brennan said:


> Conrad,
> I agree 100%. Once I decide to stop letting what others say/think/feel about me but rather look inward about how I feel about myself, I will be happy and content. Who cares what somebody else thinks of me! They aren't living my life and I need to further focus on letting go of the need to feel appreciated/admired by others. I need to appreciate and admire myself.  Thank you Oracle.....once again you are the man with the answers.


Everyone should care about what their partner thinks, it makes for a good relationship. If you don't care then you have issues. And if they don't care enough to treat you well then you are in the wrong relationship.

Everyone on here wants to be with someone they can trust. it is not wrong to put your faith in someone, it is wrong of them to break your trust.


----------



## Mrs.G

Conrad said:


> Sorry for polluting the board with "rubbish", but I think you overlook some important facts.
> 
> 1) It's easy to be cool, detached, and aloof with people we aren't really "in to".
> 
> 2) When our heart is "on the line", we tend to expose our own weaknesses. Yes, another person can be the catalyst, but we ALLOW them access to those parts of ourselves that are vulnerable.
> 
> 3) That is a choice - even if a subconscious one.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Eleanor Roosevelt: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." 

I know a single mom, who was deserted by her child's father early in her daughter's life. She once said that my husband looked "like a *******" and also "I don't need anyone to take care of me! I can take care of myself." I laughed in her face, because I know that she was just jealous that nobody married her and looked after her needs. Her child's father looks like a hot mess; teeth missing and white hair. 

Moral of the story? I CHOSE not to let her bother me. 

There is no "rubbish" involved in taking control of your own reactions. My mother is abusive and cruel. Instead of letting her torment me with her words and actions, I just stay away and feel sorry for the poor psycho. :smthumbup:


----------



## madimoff

Ok in no particular order: yes I have issues in my own relationship and some of my OH's observations are that he feels disrespected - I for my part am here attempting to find out what 'in general' for men 'in general' that might mean; while taking his thoughts seriously, I always have to factor in the recognition (his own as well as mine) that he is oversensitive and has a tendency to overreact
So my thread is to attempt to get a flavour of how little or how big the triggers might be to make a man feel belittled
ref humour: I in no way think it's ok in anything less than a totally confident, secure relationship (whether among work colleagues, family members or your OH) to use 'aggressive' humour (not meaning BEING aggessive, you understand) because without certainty it could all go horribly wrong
Syrum made a good point about the difference between occasionally losing your cool and consistently putting someone down
I agree also that joking crosses into something different if you are calling someone stupid or an idiot, saying stuff like 'you can't do anything right' - NOT ok
Syrum again: I don't think it's right to take responsibility if the person I should trust most starts calling me names
And again Syrum, answering Brennan's point that who cares what somebody else thinks: well I do for one, and I do care even more what the people closest to me think 

I do think, though, we've gone away a bit from the question which related to belittling men, with the idea of finding how wide a range of comments seem to be seen as hurtful:, and specific examples might be as good a way as any of identifying problem zones


----------



## madimoff

As a PS, I have always found repartee great fun and bizarrely a good way to use your mind without having to have deep meaningful conversations about relativity or whatever: so tippytoeing around someone's feelings puts a halt on that particular strand of what should be light-heartedness


----------



## Conrad

Mad,

Let's talk about what makes men feel good.

"Wow, that was amazing. It was like you were made of iron!"

Let's talk about what makes men feel disrespected.

"I wasn't even sure you were doing anything"

"Have we started yet?"

"Maybe you're just tired"


----------



## madimoff

Yeah yeah (thought better of putting a rolleyes lest anyone thinks I'm into putting a downer on my man sexually!)

But I'm starting to get the feeling that disrespect-respect-belittling are terms which seem to mean such a wide range of things that there just plain IS no explanation!
Sexual, decision making, deferring to judgement, not talking over, not interrupting, not questioning, you name it - and all of the aforementioned have so many shades of grey within them I know women who'd laugh that they could be considered disrespectful yet have seen on TAM many times women posting that all of these are definitely disrespectful
<scratchhead smiley - they're not working!)


----------



## Jeep73170

There is a price to pay for everything, sooner or later the belittling will come to a head. The reason we have no intimacy is her constant ****itching ! They she wonders why we have no relationship.

She even complains that I don't do the dishes in the right order. UUUUGhh !!!!!!!!! She doesn't like it when I say I'll do all the dishes, she still has to **ich !!!Who cares,


----------



## Runs like Dog

I generally mention that we don't have supervisors in the house. If 'you' have a 'better' way of doing something, then feel free to volunteer. Of course that never gets me anywhere. You see, control freaks want POWER not ACCOUNTABILITY. They don't want a given thing done or not done in a given way. What they want is to tell YOU to do something.


----------



## madimoff

Runs like Dog said:


> I generally mention that we don't have supervisors in the house. If 'you' have a 'better' way of doing something, then feel free to volunteer. Of course that never gets me anywhere. You see, control freaks want POWER not ACCOUNTABILITY. They don't want a given thing done or not done in a given way. What they want is to tell YOU to do something.


Omg I wish it were ok to volunteer to do things a better way (as you put it) in our house
Thankfully he's recently recognised that doing things different ways isn't necessarily a monumental issue (he has another house overseas so has his 'boycave' where he does things the way HE wants) - But I'm single-parenting some 60% of the time in 'our' house consequently have 'my' way with, to use an oft-quoted in forums example, the dishwasher
I come along behind him (obviously not hot on his heels checking, I just mean the next time I'm using the dishwasher), and without meaning to criticise or disrespect, spot a way to re-load in a way I consider more efficient SO I do it; I don't ask him to do it differently, I don't make snide comments about glasses should be here or there, or x y or z thing should be in a different position, I just change it myself
For quite some time this caused us a problem because he saw that - ME volunteering to do something a different way - as disrespectful
:scratchhead: (I feel another thread coming on as soon as I can figure a different 'disrespect' title!!!!)


----------



## Runs like Dog

Yeah I never do any of that sort of thing. It's always met with anger and recrimination. My wife wants to manually scrub everything before it goes in the dishwasher and then uses the dishwasher as a sterilizer, whatever that means (it's not actually a 300 degree steam autoclave). And then she sort of randomly tosses everything into the DW in a haphazard fashion so that half the things don't fit. 

I don't care. 

What I do is load it up the way I want when she's not watching. Then I turn it on right away. I unload it when it's done and Darth Vader does not detect a disturbance in The Force.


----------



## madimoff

Runs like Dog said:


> Yeah I never do any of that sort of thing. It's always met with anger and recrimination. My wife wants to manually scrub everything before it goes in the dishwasher and then uses the dishwasher as a sterilizer, whatever that means (it's not actually a 300 degree steam autoclave). And then she sort of randomly tosses everything into the DW in a haphazard fashion so that half the things don't fit.
> 
> I don't care.
> 
> What I do is load it up the way I want when she's not watching. Then I turn it on right away. I unload it when it's done and Darth Vader does not detect a disturbance in The Force.


:lol:

Dishwashers!!!! How come such a supposedly helpful device causes so much angst


----------



## okeydokie

when my wife criticizes something i do when i try to help, i simply dont do it anymore


----------



## Conrad

madimoff said:


> Runs like Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I never do any of that sort of thing. It's always met with anger and recrimination. My wife wants to manually scrub everything before it goes in the dishwasher and then uses the dishwasher as a sterilizer, whatever that means (it's not actually a 300 degree steam autoclave). And then she sort of randomly tosses everything into the DW in a haphazard fashion so that half the things don't fit.
> 
> I don't care.
> 
> What I do is load it up the way I want when she's not watching. Then I turn it on right away. I unload it when it's done and Darth Vader does not detect a disturbance in The Force.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Dishwashers!!!! How come such a supposedly helpful device causes so much angst
Click to expand...

The dishwasher is an instrument of much pain in this forum.


----------



## Runs like Dog

Did you know the dishwasher was invented by a woman? I learned that on the History channel yesterday.


----------



## Conrad

Runs like Dog said:


> Did you know the dishwasher was invented by a woman? I learned that on the History channel yesterday.


Perhaps that's why they pay so much attention to how it's loaded.


----------



## Mrs.G

okeydokie said:


> when my wife criticizes something i do when i try to help, i simply dont do it anymore


This is immature and childish. Just because she has an opinion about how something might be completed, you punish her by pouting and taking your ball away. :rofl:

I thrive on constructive criticism. Even the criticism is mean spirited, it still does no good to simply give up.


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## woodstock

Runs like Dog said:


> Did you know the dishwasher was invented by a woman? I learned that on the History channel yesterday.


Did you know the helmet was invented 100 yrs after the cup? I will let you guess which gender made that order LMAO


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## okeydokie

Mrs.G said:


> This is immature and childish. Just because she has an opinion about how something might be completed, you punish her by pouting and taking your ball away. :rofl:
> 
> I thrive on constructive criticism. Even the criticism is mean spirited, it still does no good to simply give up.


lol, no ma'am, its not. and i dont pout, not sure where you got that from, her criticizing is her way of saying "i dont want you to do this anymore", so i oblige her wishes.

incidentally, you just criticized and belittled me by calling my actions immature and childish, so now i have to withdraw


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