# Has any of you guys paid for sex?



## Stormbringer (Apr 1, 2014)

I haven't but I have not had sex for nearly two years. My wife refuses. There is no point in advising on divorce as I will not give up on my financial responsibilities.

I can easily pay for a "high class" prostitute but have never before considered it. I am now desperate though and would really appreciate some insight into what the experience is like for anyone who has done this.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm not a guy, but I certainly wouldn't want to land myself in jail over some high-priced call girl (TRANSLATE -- wh*re). Is it really worth ruining your reputation, possibly losing your job, for some overpriced sex? Before I'd pay for it, I'd just go pick up a skank in a bar for free.

Deal with the problems in your marriage, or get out.

You can get a divorce and still be "financially responsible" for your family. You need to deal... Or get a blow-up doll.

I doubt you'll find many on a MARRIAGE website to condone visiting a prostitute.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

There's only one way to do this with a shred of integrity (and a small shred at that). Get permission first. Not from us, from your wife.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Stormbringer said:


> I haven't but I have not had sex for nearly two years. My wife refuses. There is no point in advising on divorce as I will not give up on my financial responsibilities.
> 
> I can easily pay for a "high class" prostitute but have never before considered it. I am now desperate though and would really appreciate some insight into what the experience is like for anyone who has done this.


Why be in a relationship with someone if you are not happy?

Doesn't make any sense.

And some guys would tell you that you did pay a HIGH price for sex, but you are not even getting any of what you paid for.

Marriage is NOT cheap (don't forget that)......


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

We all pay for sex in one way or another 

But in all seriousness I would advise against using a hooker or call girl....it's not like the movies and they are rarely what they seem.


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## Stormbringer (Apr 1, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> I'm not a guy, but I certainly wouldn't want to land myself in jail over some high-priced call girl (TRANSLATE -- wh*re). Is it really worth ruining your reputation, possibly losing your job, for some overpriced sex? Before I'd pay for it, I'd just go pick up a skank in a bar for free.
> 
> Deal with the problems in your marriage, or get out.
> 
> You can get a divorce and still be "financially responsible" for your family. You need to deal...


I take the point but to clarify there is no jail risk as in the UK it is perfectly legal to visit someone at their home and it would be discreet as I would pick somewhere miles from my home town.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Stormbringer said:


> I take the point but to clarify there is no jail risk as in the UK it is perfectly legal to visit someone at their home and it would be discreet as I would pick somewhere miles from my home town.


Just get wife's permission first (preferably in writing)....and save it


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## Jamestone (Mar 30, 2014)

No. And would never pay for it. If you need sex there are plenty of women who would be happily willing to help you out. But you need to look at your relationship and see if you can repair it. Tell your wife how you feel about not having sex. Let her know that its something you need and have to have. See what she says. If you are hung up on finances you would be much better off letting her know and separating over a divorce because you had sex with another woman. That will cost you much more in the end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Stormbringer said:


> I take the point but to clarify there is no jail risk as in the UK it is perfectly legal to visit someone at their home and it would be discreet as I would pick somewhere miles from my home town.


UK or not, do you really want to go down this road? To stick your junk somewhere where a thousand other guys have already stuck it?

Have some self-respect. Divorce your wife, be financially responsible, and go find a new love partner who meets your needs. A real relationship.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

There are sites other than TAM that are better suited to your question. I suggest googling.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

As a man I cannot understand the attraction of paying a hooker. There is no emotional connection at all, which is a big part of the reward of sex. If all you need is a physical release then take care of business yourself. Maybe find some more creative scenarios.

Would you give up your financial responsibilities in a divorce? Usually the courts make sure that doesn't happen.

If you are dead set against D, I would suggest you don't hide your sexuality from your wife. I'm serious about this. Pop a porno in the bedroom DVD player and watch it, and jerk off to it if you want. Don't hide it from her. Obviously make double sure the kids are shielded from this. If you feel like wanking one in the shower, do it even if (especially if) she is in the bathroom brushing her teeth.

She has no right to force you to live a celibate life. She doesn't have to put out for you, but she cannot insist you don't get your needs met either.

If she has no interest whatsoever in sex, another tactic is to tell her you are a sexual being and you intend to have a rewarding sexual life. You prefer it be with her, but in any case you will be having a sexual life. You may even negotiate an open marriage with her at this point.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Stormbringer said:


> I take the point but to clarify there is no jail risk as in the UK it is perfectly legal to visit someone at their home and it would be discreet as I would pick somewhere miles from my home town.


I didn't know that prostitution was legal in the UK. Maybe things are radically different there but here in the states getting legal sex is about the cost of a beer or two in many cases.

Paying for it doesn't make it any less wrong to cheat though. What would happen if you spoke to your wife and said "we haven't had sex in so long that I'm considering sleeping with a hooker". Maybe she needs that kind of wake up call. If her response was "knock yourself out" then do you really want to keep living like this?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why does divorce = giving up on your financial responsibilities?? 

Whether you pay for it or not, you'd be cheating. If you want advice on how to cheat on your wife, go somewhere else. If you want to know what cheating does to someone, do some reading around here and see if that's really the person you want to become and what you really want to do to your wife.

I would be interested to know what you've done to try and solve this problem with your wife?


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I am a female... but would never pay for sex, nor would I risk my health just to get off. Sure you can pitch the tent... but things happen. 

I agree your first step should be to discuss with the wife... let her know it is a deal breaker, as there are needs that you have that she is not meeting.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Thor said:


> She has no right to force you to live a celibate life. She doesn't have to put out for you, but she cannot insist you don't get your needs met either..


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Amen, brother!!!


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## tainted (Aug 16, 2013)

What happend two years ago that made the sex stop? You have to look at the other aspects of your marriage, money, family, work, something must be wrong. 

If you just want sex then a prostitute is your answer. 
If you want a healthy sex life with your wife then look at the other issues.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> We all pay for sex in one way or another
> 
> But in all seriousness I would advise against using a hooker or call girl....it's not like the movies and they are rarely what they seem.


:iagree: Any man who has paid for dates, flowers and gifts has indirectly paid for sex. Men do not do those things just to be nice. They are hoping it will get them into a woman's pants. 

Call girls are used to dealing with married men. The call girls who work for high end agencies are also tested for STIs very often. The differences between streetwalkers and an escorts are price, appearance, STIs and how they treat their johns. Prostitutes are not paid for sex. They are paid to leave their johns alone afterwards. 

While I wouldn't judge a single person who visits sex workers, I would certainly advise against it for married people. Do the right thing and handle the sex issue with your wife. Be prepared to walk away if the sex does not improve after several discussions. 

I think that too many people underestimate the importance of sex in a marriage.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Speaking as someone who cheated in an attempt to fill a hole in his marriage, here's my words of "wisdom"...

Empty meaningless sex does not make up for an intimacy void in a marriage. You're still going to be spending every night in bed with someone who'd rather have a dog beside her than you. Or a female friend. Or... Basically, anyone other than you. You'll still know this. You'll feel guilty for doing this. It's just not a solution

IMHO. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> :iagree: Any man who has paid for dates, flowers and gifts has indirectly paid for sex. Men do not do those things just to be nice. They are hoping it will get them into a woman's pants.
> 
> Call girls are used to dealing with married men. The call girls who work for high end agencies are also tested for STIs very often. The differences between streetwalkers and an escorts are price, appearance, STIs and how they treat their johns. Prostitutes are not paid for sex. They are paid to leave their johns alone afterwards.
> 
> ...


*
*

:iagree: you only have to spend a minute on TAM to realize how devastating a sexless marriage can look. Just like the saying "sex is like air, it becomes real important when you don't get any"


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I'm not a guy, but I certainly wouldn't want to land myself in jail over some high-priced call girl


It's legal in Nevada and Canada, just sayin'.

And we all know that sex that you pay for is the cheapest kind.


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## BoozeLevers (Apr 7, 2014)

Stormbringer said:


> I haven't but I have not had sex for nearly two years. My wife refuses.


Has she refused because you said, "Gee, some sex sure would be great"? Or, has she refused after you said, "If you're not willing to meet my sexual needs, I will find someone else who will"? There is a big difference that will affect how we advise you.



> There is no point in advising on divorce as I will not give up on my financial responsibilities.


Not to worry. Often, divorce can mean taking on even more financial responsibilities!



> I can easily pay for a "high class" prostitute but have never before considered it. I am now desperate though and would really appreciate some insight into what the experience is like for anyone who has done this.


As others have said. It's a dangerous game. Just because you would be fine with it doesn't mean your wife would be. Even if a prostitute worked for you, how often would you need to visit one? Monthly? More? Each trip makes it more likely your wife would discover your activities. And if you think your wife doesn't care about you now, wait until she finds out you've been seeing a hooker.

I suggest you either fight for your marriage, even at the risk of losing it, or advise your wife that you accept living as roommates, but you will be dating other women for sexual release. And do this before taking any action. That way, she has some input into the final resolution.


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## silentghost (Jan 28, 2013)

Seriously....are you ready to risk your health for some high paying prostitute?
Are you ready to risk your health for

chlamydia: -painful urination
- lower penile discharge
- swollen discharge

gonorrhea: -painful urination
-green/white discharge from the penis
-swollen testicles

herpes: -blisters on the penis, testicles, on and around the 
anus, buttocks and thighs
-blisters
-aching muscles

genital warts

syphilis: one of the more serious diseases in the men because of its link to the HIV and the increased risk to get HIV when infected with it.

Really...are you going to risk your health for a good chance of getting these kinds of diseases only to pass it on to some other woman down the line. 
THink about it....you might get what you want...it's your wife that will walk away with a clean bill of health.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> I'm not a guy, but I certainly wouldn't want to land myself in jail over some high-priced call girl (TRANSLATE -- wh*re). .....


It is not acceptable behaviour in my mind to use language like that about a woman you do not even know. 

You would not refer to a black person as a n*****. Do not refer to a sex worker as a *****.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Stormbringer said:


> I haven't but I have not had sex for nearly two years. My wife refuses. There is no point in advising on divorce as I will not give up on my financial responsibilities.
> 
> I can easily pay for a "high class" prostitute but have never before considered it. I am now desperate though and would really appreciate some insight into what the experience is like for anyone who has done this.


Clearly, seeing a professional is not the answer. I have never paid for sex, but I have known several sex workers (I have a wide social circle), so I can give you a little insight.

There are three layers to the profession. 

At the top is the courtesan. This is a lady who will typically be exceptionally beautiful and wake up in the morning looking like a purfume advert. They do exist and I am friends with a lady who did this. In this role, the lady is salaried to have a sexual affair. The 24-hour a day nature of it and constant inequality in the relationship make it pernicious. Being able to treat everyone to dinner on someone else's credit card is not good for her in the long run. One of the more depressing aspects is that she said that after bad sex with her husband, she would often think "I could have been paid for that".

The next run down is the independent escort, which is the high end. Generally, these are attractive women, often working from a hotel or at home. This is the least pernicious part of the market. I have know a couple of women do this work and it is hard to condemn. The attitude to you varies in the two I know, between one of enjoyment and hard headed business. In either case, if you are going to go (and I certainly do not suggest you do), you should go with an attitiude of politeness to a professional doing a job. Do not be embarrased about being there, it is their job and the correct attitude should be one of polite gratitude. If you are into anything particularly kinky (I mean toilet related), they will not enjoy it but will pretend to.

The bottom rung are street walkers. I have only known these ladies from homless charities. They are all a mess and unable to cope with life. Trafficing is perhaps more of an issue not at this level, but not as extreme as reported (I only hear from people still working there). This is the risky area (though you will have a condom on no matter whom, so STD's are a minor concern).

This will not solve anything, and you if you are not willing to risk your marriage on the basis of money, but will pay for sex, it seems you are just going for money over happiness. 

If this sounds compehensive, it is all based on a small number of friends. It is still unreliable.

The major advice for someone in your position is to try date dates and rekindling the romance. Frankly, this is like telling someone who is long term unemployed to try looking on the internet. It is tough, but being resigned (not accepting) is dangerous.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

silentghost said:


> Seriously....are you ready to risk your health for some high paying prostitute?
> Are you ready to risk your health for
> 
> chlamydia: -painful urination
> ...


Prostitutes are not the only women who have these diseases. A man can contract an STI from a one night stand with a non sex worker or his partner. 

Also, any agency worth their salt is going to make sure that the girls are tested regularly. Since the adult industry is partly about reputation, call girls cannot be infecting their johns. It is like going to a restaurant and getting food poisoning; nobody wants to visit the resto after a story like that gets out. So, madams and pimps who want to keep making money will stipulate that the girls need to be tested for STIs periodically. 

Condoms are also a given when it comes to a certain level of sex workers. No madam would want it to get out that one of her girls let a john ride bareback.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

Mr The Other said:


> It is not acceptable behaviour in my mind to use language like that about a woman you do not even know.
> 
> You would not refer to a black person as a n*****. Do not refer to a sex worker as a *****.


Isn't a w***e a woman who is explicitly paid for sex? :scratchhead:

If a woman accepts money for sex, that is the only fact anyone needs to know in order to label her a w***e.

People CHOOSE to become prostitutes in most cases. Blacks cannot choose their race, so your example didn't make any sense.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> Isn't a w***e a woman who is explicitly paid for sex? :scratchhead:
> 
> If a woman accepts money for sex, that is the only fact anyone needs to know in order to label her a w***e.
> 
> People CHOOSE to become prostitutes in most cases. Blacks cannot choose their race, so your example didn't make any sense.


There is a reason that the work is not shown on this board without stars. There are many other words that would convey the meaning of a woman who has sex for money; prostitute, escort, sex worker. The choice of a base could dismiss them as being less of a person than the rest of us, to refer to them without the respect a person inherently deserves.

That is why either term is used and why it will be spelt with stars on this board.

I write this and I am well aware that the word may not have the same meaning to everyone. Please, understand this is how I read it and why I was unhappy with its use.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> Any man who has paid for dates, flowers and gifts has indirectly paid for sex. Men do not do those things just to be nice. They are hoping it will get them into a woman's pants.


If I pay for a woman's dinner it's because I want the pleasure of her company during dinner. It's not so she 'owes' me sex in return. I want her to have sex with me because she thinks I'm attractive and wants to have sex with me not to repay a debt. 

Not all men are as shallow as your comment implies. Some actually do do things to be nice...believe it or not.


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## BoozeLevers (Apr 7, 2014)

Mr The Other said:


> There is a reason that the work is not shown on this board without stars.


Correct. That reason is that it means prostitute. Prostitution is ubiquitously seen as an immoral exchange. Promiscuity used to be seen as immoral, and now is gaining acceptance. So, referring to a promiscuous woman as a wh0re is trying to impugn her behavior as being less moral than most probably see it. That's the insult. I don't think any woman who has been incorrectly labelled a wh0re would have felt entirely different if the offender had merely labelled her a prostitute, or sex worker, rather than using the "w-word."



> I write this and I am well aware that the word may not have the same meaning to everyone. Please, understand this is how I read it and why I was unhappy with its use.


I understand. But I think, when reading another's words, it's more useful to try to interpret them as the author intended, rather than insisting on applying one's own biases to the words.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

MaritimeGuy said:


> If I pay for a woman's dinner it's because I want the pleasure of her company during dinner. It's not so she 'owes' me sex in return. I want her to have sex with me because she thinks I'm attractive and wants to have sex with me not to repay a debt.
> 
> Not all men are as shallow as your comment implies. Some actually do do things to be nice...believe it or not.


I beg to differ. I agree that perhaps not *all *men are shallow but the vast majority are. 

In my experience, most men do not do ANYTHING unless they are getting something in return at some point. The average man doesn't bring flowers and pay for dates just because he is a swell guy. 

It is like women who are surprised when they go to a man's home and he puts the moves on them. Hello? Men don't invite women to their homes so that they can eat milk and cookies together. 

I dated for about seven years before I met my husband. He is one of the very few who never pressured me for sex right away. He was also the ONLY one who had me in his apartment but never tried anything. I dated lots of men when I was single, though I certainly didn't sleep with them all.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> I beg to differ. I agree that perhaps not *all *men are shallow but the vast majority are.
> 
> *In my experience, most men do not do ANYTHING unless they are getting something in return at some point.* The average man doesn't bring flowers and pay for dates just because he is a swell guy.
> 
> ...


I think an awful lot of women are just as transactional, just in different ways.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

Mr The Other said:


> It is not acceptable behaviour in my mind to use language like that about a woman you do not even know.
> 
> You would not refer to a black person as a n*****. Do not refer to a sex worker as a *****.


Your correlation is not even close. It's like apples and oranges. One is an extremely racist and vile word, while the other is an acceptable word to use when defining a prostitute. 

Also. respect is not inherently given, it is earned.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> I think an awful lot of women are just as transactional, just in different ways.


When it comes to dating in today's world this is very true


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> We all pay for sex in one way or another
> 
> But in all seriousness I would advise against using a hooker or call girl....it's not like the movies and they are rarely what they seem.


I agree with wolf...even the first part...lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> I beg to differ. I agree that perhaps not *all *men are shallow but the vast majority are.


It's true. And we secretly envy your ability to have such depth with things like, for example, your celebrity crushes. 

I mean, take a look at any women's magazines, it's all depth, depth, depth! I admit that it's a little above my head. The magazines I collect are about learning to play musical instruments, getting better at photography, looking at beautiful places to go hiking, and so on. I wish I was able to aspire to gossip about people I've never met.



CharlotteMcdougall said:


> The average man doesn't bring flowers and pay for dates just because he is a swell guy.


Well, you should have dated above average men.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

MSP said:


> It's true. And we secretly envy your ability to have such depth with things like, for example, your celebrity crushes.
> 
> I mean, take a look at any women's magazines, it's all depth, depth, depth! I admit that it's a little above my head. The magazines I collect are about learning to play musical instruments, getting better at photography, looking at beautiful places to go hiking, and so on. I wish I was able to aspire to gossip about people I've never met.
> 
> ...


DAMN - Who pissed on your corn flakes this morning?


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> DAMN - Who pissed on your corn flakes this morning?


Yeah. I think I'll stay offline for a while. I've had terrible insomnia, sleeping only a couple of hours a night, for a month now and it's starting to get to me. 

Thanks for calling me on it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Stormbringer said:


> I haven't but I have not had sex for nearly two years. My wife refuses. There is no point in advising on divorce as I will not give up on my financial responsibilities.
> 
> I can easily pay for a "high class" prostitute but have never before considered it. I am now desperate though and would really appreciate some insight into what the experience is like for anyone who has done this.


How about this...

Don't "pay", this will set you up for a bad habit and hurts your esteem as you will never learn how to get it.

How about devolving into what works for you for getting sex. And "lower your standards" to get you started. After you start having sex your confidence will grow.

Your not seeing the best life partner, but a fun and safe sex partner.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> I beg to differ. I agree that perhaps not *all *men are shallow but the vast majority are.
> 
> In my experience, most men do not do ANYTHING unless they are getting something in return at some point. The average man doesn't bring flowers and pay for dates just because he is a swell guy.
> 
> ...


Why SHOULD a man keep GIVING to someone who has absolutely zero interest of GIVING anything to them. We can do charity for once in a while, but we will not keep sharing our kindness to someone who will not share it back.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MaritimeGuy said:


> If I pay for a woman's dinner it's because I want the pleasure of her company during dinner. It's not so she 'owes' me sex in return. I want her to have sex with me because she thinks I'm attractive and wants to have sex with me not to repay a debt.
> 
> Not all men are as shallow as your comment implies. Some actually do do things to be nice...believe it or not.


I don't agree.

In this day and age where men and women both work, she should appreciate our company as well.

I do not believe a man pays every time. I believe a woman who works will truly pay some of the time, and not act. The reason is, the act tells the man she values his time and appreciates his financial expenditure.

It doesn't ahve to be 50/50, but 100/0 feels like being used. You don't pay for her to sit there be pretty, bat her eyes, etc. Thats BULL. If it is a female comrade, a friend, a lover, what do you expect of them?

I expect them to repay my kindness and not by saying thank you, or encouraging me to waste my money.

She will spend HER money and time on ME as well as I do her.

It's the only way to know your appreciated!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I thought the OP was asking for ideas regarding how he would get his needs meet in a sexless marriage, not if men were shallow cads willing to do anything for sex?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> I thought the OP was asking for ideas regarding how he would get his needs meet in a sexless marriage, not if men were shallow cads willing to do anything for sex?


OP will get his needs met OUTSIDE of the sexless relationship. Let her know that it's been long enough, if she doesn't want to seek counselling for the matter, then he will be forced to take on a lover. That he can hide it from her, or share high level details. But she will not stop him from having a fruitful sex life.

If she forces him to take on a lover for too long, she takes on the risk of losing him because the emotional bond to the lover will be stronger than the wife. Tell her that up front.

Don't be mad about it, this is the position you are forced into.

The other position is literal castration, don't let ANYONE do this to you.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

does anyone knows why charlotte was banned?, I find it weird given the I don't idetify her as a confrotational user


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> I beg to differ. I agree that perhaps not *all *men are shallow but the vast majority are.
> 
> *In my experience, most men do not do ANYTHING unless they are getting something in return at some point. The average man doesn't bring flowers and pay for dates just because he is a swell guy. *
> 
> .......


God I hope my kids don't grow up with this sort of mind warp. (am raising both genders).

My experience of men is both positive and healthy.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

BradWesley said:


> Your correlation is not even close. It's like apples and oranges. One is an extremely racist and vile word, while the other is an acceptable word to use when defining a prostitute.
> 
> 
> 
> Also. respect is not inherently given, it is earned.



Why is it acceptable? Oh so I can be disrespectful to you and until you earn it?


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Not a guy....

But why wouldn't you? Isn't it the easiest, least tangled, least messy way to at LEAST have some good old fashioned sex???? Ya, maybe not intimate and passionate.... but compared to what? Nothing???? 

If it's not illegal.... or not a big deal where you live.... then why not?

I'd still run it by the wife. Maybe you'll get lucky and SHE will leave!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Why pay? Just go out, meet them and fk

Mutually beneficial agreement, however obviously this is cheating unless your wife consents


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Why won't you tell your wife you want sex, and you will go get it elsewhere?

In my opinion, Stormbringer doesn't believe he has a right to expect good passionate sex within a healthy marriage. His wife, though, believes she has the right to subject him to a sexless marriage. This is a very dysfunctional combination of attitudes.

He can't change her, but he can change himself. This starts with honoring himself and declaring his right to be a sexual human, and his right to not accept a sexless marriage. 

I believe the best strategy is to tell his wife it is no longer acceptable to have a sexless marriage, and to insist she participate enthusiastically in marriage counseling. If she is not working hard immediately, and if there is not significant progress in a few months, it is clear the marriage is not going to survive and thus it is time to D.

The book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and the forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin are going to be a huge help in recovery.

Alternatively, seeking sex outside the marriage would be an option, but in my moral system only if she has been notified ahead of time. I think it is weak and avoiding confrontation to seek an affair without informing her first and giving her the chance to genuinely step up in the marriage.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I would guess that if I asked any woman who was a W of mine, for me to have permission to go out and procure a rather nice piece of "paid-for strange," that I would earnestly hope and pray that she would send quickly dispatch me somewhere so that all of my friends could send over covered dishes for the rest of the family to eat while I was busy lying in state at the funeral home!

Seriously, I would not want "paid-for-sex" with any person because it largely robs you of any serious emotional connection that you greatly need in order to make the sexual experience as complete and mutually fulfilling as possible!*


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

treyvion said:


> I don't agree.
> 
> In this day and age where men and women both work, she should appreciate our company as well.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with what you're saying. Paying for dates comes down to means in my mind. If two people want to spend time together, unless they're packing picnic lunches it will cost money (even then some money). It's only fair that the amount each contributes over time is proportionate to their disposable income. Traditionally, men had significantly more income than women. Today as you point out this is often not the case. 

I don't pay for a women's meal with the intention of getting sex. I pay for her meal to get an opportunity to get to know her better. Once I know whether I like her or not then I will make the decision whether I want to have sex with her or not. I would be appalled if I ever thought who paid for dinner had any bearing on her decision to have sex with me. I am only interested in having sex with a woman who wants to have sex with me.

For me that would definately rule out prostitutes. I can just imagine the thoughts that go through their minds, "Yawn...here we go again...pay me my money...climb on, do your business and get off of me". 

No thanks.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

So I was in business with this guy. Yeah, my deliveries were late. And occasionally (okay, often) the wrong truck got sent to the wrong location. And while it was in the contract, my people were WAY too busy to help his with inventory. Hey, it was 'use it or lose it' vacations. How could I ask them to make extra (any) effort?

So can you believe it? That characterless CUR ignored his financial responsibilities and stopped sending me money! What a low life!

I'm sorry. This was just on my mind. It has NOTHING to do with a breach of contract in a marriage...and what who owes whom?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

BradWesley said:


> DAMN - Who pissed on your corn flakes this morning?


But is he wrong?

If one is going to toss gender generalities about, expect some poo to be flung back.

And I say this with the highest respect for Charlotte, whom I frequently agree with.

This is a pernicious attitude in women's circles. I had this one lady tell me 'women only date men with character. Men are shallow boob watchers, but women care about DEEPER things.'

Then I looked at all the really great guys I knew who weren't fit, rich or with clear complexions who had GREAT character...and they remained dateless.

I am sure there is SOME truth to her comments...but not as much as she would like and the kettle is calling to say hello...


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

PM me if you really want a real current day answer not a bunch of regurgitated stories. Posting here will just open up a sh$t storm.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

MSP said:


> It's true. And we secretly envy your ability to have such depth with things like, for example, your celebrity crushes.
> 
> I mean, take a look at any women's magazines, it's all depth, depth, depth! I admit that it's a little above my head. The magazines I collect are about learning to play musical instruments, getting better at photography, looking at beautiful places to go hiking, and so on. I wish I was able to aspire to gossip about people I've never met.
> 
> ...


:lol::lol: Hey, I never said that women can't shallow as well. 

Men drool over sexy women all the time and nobody cares. Let a woman admit to admiring a sexy man with muscles and all hell breaks loose. 

I married an above average man so I guess I took your advice.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

JCD said:


> But is he wrong?
> 
> If one is going to toss gender generalities about, expect some poo to be flung back.
> 
> ...


I will be the first to admit that women frequently care about superficial things as well. 

I had a friend who was a beautiful blonde. She was engaged to a man whom she wasn't in love with because he was $rich$ This woman even told me that the sex was terrible; she was willing to throw away orgasms so that she could live affluently. All she ever talked about was what her fiance could buy her; nothing about his personality. 

So many women go for men who are gorgeous yet treat them terribly. I also hear too many ladies talk about not wanting to date men who do not drive fancy cars or have six figure incomes.

My husband is tall and handsome in my eyes. However, there are many people who tell me that he is "old" or not very attractive. This is probably more pronounced because I look very young; I still get turned away from casinos and bars if I forget my ID. He doesn't drive some fancy car and we live more modestly than many couples in our circle. I am quite happy with my "old" husband. He is hardly a fossil at age forty! 

I am sorry if my words offended any men; I can only speak from my experience. I grew up around a lot of males and I also dated quite a bit before I married my husband. Besides my very first boyfriend that I had at age 17, my husband is the *only *man who never badgered me for sex. He was a perfect gentleman who treated me like gold. That first summer was filled with long conversations, kissing, lovely dates and cuddling. 

I own everything that I have posted about because I know that I am not perfect. I came to TAM to help and be helped. Even if it means that some people may ridicule me for what I share, I will continue to confess any problems I have in my marriage. :smthumbup:


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

treyvion said:


> Why SHOULD a man keep GIVING to someone who has absolutely zero interest of GIVING anything to them. We can do charity for once in a while, but we will not keep sharing our kindness to someone who will not share it back.


This is very true. Relationships should ideally be reciprocal.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> I will be the first to admit that women frequently care about superficial things as well.
> 
> I had a friend who was a beautiful blonde. She was engaged to a man whom she wasn't in love with because he was $rich$ This woman even told me that the sex was terrible; she was willing to throw away orgasms so that she could live affluently. All she ever talked about was what her fiance could buy her; nothing about his personality.
> 
> ...



Well said and no offense taken. I think that it is more likely that a man will get his panties in a twist about a wife being attracted to another man then a man being attracted to another woman.

But that is based on the power disparity which is on display on this post. A man who wants sex has to pass the 'gate keeper'. The OP can't get by his wife's defenses. So a wife who has a husband with a wandering eye only has to worry about a woman looking BACK.

A man whose wife has a wandering eye...well...he knows what kind of scum men are. All she has to do is say 'yes' because the 'hard work' of selling her on the idea is done.

Just a pet theory of mine.

Oh yes. Welcome back. You've joined the "Banned Camp" Club. Been a member for a long time


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Stormbringer,

Here is the deal: I don't think that paid sex is going to cut it for you. You aren't just horny, you are also craving emotional intimacy. Now, with the right escort, some mix of Julia Roberts and a psychologist, yeah, she can do great things for you.

You can find her at Santa's Workshop in North Pole, riding a Unicorn and talking to a male friendly Lesbian. Her schedule is a bit tight though.

OR...more likely, I can see some mercenary sex worker who will fulfill every single desire you have. She will let you cry on your shoulder, take you places sexually you haven't been for AGES, buy you little (inexpensive) gifts and suggest intimate occasions away from all other cares and woes...and you will eat it up.

Because your wife has left you vulnerable. And she will 'take' you for every pound she can walk away with. I don't doubt she'll give good service...but you won't walk away without some serious drama and added pain.

This won't fix what ails you. IF you can be tough, it might get you through a few rough patches...but let's not mistake the fact you are seeking a Band-Aid for Dolorous Blow.


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## lookinforhelpandhope (Apr 10, 2013)

OP, even as a woman I understand tha men NEED sex. For both emotional and physical well being.

Before you do anything else would it be possible to have a heart to heart with your wife and get to the root cause of the problem.

Also, I hate to say this however, is it possible she's involved in a long term affair?


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

I haven't, but I'm certain I will in the future.

P.S. Original Poster, this forum is dominated by US contributors, with a worldview that follows. Not right or wrong, just with a framework that leaves some topics on the edges.


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