# Need advice on how to not be a porn star - gracefully



## Typo (Feb 1, 2013)

I am so thankful I've stumbled onto this site. I haven't had the first clue how to get advice and save my marriage. My husband and I have been together 18 years and we have two kids. We have a mostly happy marriage. I've read all the threads for the past week and I'd say we mostly have matching sex drives. He doesn't complain about how often and I don't complain about it being a duty.

The problem is more complex. My husband has gotten pretty into online sites (not just porn, he's also into blogs and discussion groups). He has this driving need to be very public with sex. He'd really like for me to go to a swingers club with him and just "watch." He'd also like for us to have an online relationship with other couples and "watch" them and let them watch us. And he'd really like to rent an airplane and have sex in the back with the pilot watching (apparently there's some kind of local service that does this? WTF?). You get the idea. I think he's even researched inviting someone over.

I am really not okay with any of this. In fact, I'm totally skeeved out by it. If he were willing to keep it in the fantasy realm, I could act well enough and with enough alcohol to talk it through on the pillow only. The problem is that if I even try then he's really thinking it's going to happen. It's not going to happen. Even if I were 20 and unencumbered by children, duties, and a middle-aged body this is not what I would be doing.

The problem is that every time we have sex there's this shadow of expectation hovering over us. Like I'm not being the up for anything porn star of his dreams and he's disappointed. It's not like we have totally vanilla sex, but with two teenagers in the house we're not swinging from the ceiling either. I just like to be close and I'm still totally into him even after all these years.

I discovered quite by accident - because our level of trust is such that I don't check up on him - that he has a subscription to ****** *******. No idea if he's off boffing a more liberal wife over lunch. I hope not. I have not asked him, mostly because I am afraid a whole string of stuff is going to be unleashed.

The other day we had just finished having sex TWICE when he said "there's this couple in London who want to talk with us." I just pretended to not hear him. I've told him this is not something I'm comfortable with. He knows. He tells me my drawing the line makes him feel like he wants something dirty. 

I don't know where to go from here.


----------



## Typo (Feb 1, 2013)

I feel like I should clarify - I'm not judgmental about what other people do. If going to a swingers club is right for someone else, totally cool (as long as that someone is not my husband!. It's just not for me.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Typo said:


> I am so thankful I've stumbled onto this site. I haven't had the first clue how to get advice and save my marriage. My husband and I have been together 18 years and we have two kids. We have a mostly happy marriage. I've read all the threads for the past week and I'd say we mostly have matching sex drives. He doesn't complain about how often and I don't complain about it being a duty.
> 
> The problem is more complex. My husband has gotten pretty into online sites (not just porn, he's also into blogs and discussion groups). He has this driving need to be very public with sex. He'd really like for me to go to a swingers club with him and just "watch." He'd also like for us to have an online relationship with other couples and "watch" them and let them watch us. And he'd really like to rent an airplane and have sex in the back with the pilot watching (apparently there's some kind of local service that does this? WTF?). You get the idea. I think he's even researched inviting someone over.
> 
> ...


I think he is negotiating and seeing what kind of compromise he can get. That isn't fair to you. He should not be pressuring you into something you do not want to do. In fact, most people would not be ok with this sort of thing so he is being completely unreasonable.

Second, the website that you mentioned has been blanked out but I'm guessing it is similar to ash mad. If he is on that website I would be very concerned ... a subscription means that he is more than just browsing.


----------



## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

Wow, sorry to hear this. It's one thing to have no boundaries with each other, but you BOTH certainly have to be on the same page for any of the other. 

The problem with the inclusion of the rest is that it's not just him winning/you losing, or you winning/him losing, but the potential for your MARRIAGE to be a casualty of these actions. I particularly would be concerned with the website he registered on, it's starred out, but I'm assuming it's @shley [email protected], which is all about having a affair, if I'm thinking of the same one. 

Something is going on here, I'd be doing some very subtle checking to get the facts.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

uh oh.. it is obvious that your husband does not have your marriage as a major concern...Marriage is a teamwork, if a member of the team does not care to keep the team as a team, then the team should be disbanded. Tell him that, as an equal partner in this partnerships of life, you veto his decision to go on swinging. If he refuses to sacrifice his swinging way for your marriage, then terminate the marriage. You deserves better.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I really don't think that your marriage is good. Your husband seems to see you as a means to an end.

He wants to use you to satisfy his sexual fantasies. He does not care about your safety or pleasure. It is not love, it's [email protected] 

if Someone you know saw these public displays, who woukd be shamed? How would it effect your kids.. 

Your husband has an unhealthy view of marital sex and he needs help. 

Why do you not tell him that you do not care to be used? Maybe you are being too sexually adventous and he thinks you will do anything. 

I think there is more here than you are willing to see. mayos highly likely to be cheating with random women.

You need firm bounderies around this issue this is no time to be nice. Your marriage is in trouble. Tell him not to bring these things up to you ever again. He is treating you with disrespect. 

You have to really think about this. Does he think you are special? Would he protect you if another man approached you or would he hope that you woukd have sex with he guy while he watches. 

What kind of loving husband wants his wife to expose herself for his pleasure only? Would such a man be in love with his wife?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

We don't have to vilify your husband to say it's OK for you not to be interested in this. There wouldn't be swingers clubs if there wasn't a pretty big pool of interested people. 

Just say no, it's a deal breaker. You are allowed to set boundaries, especially when bringing others into your bedroom is the topic.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

I think this is all about respect. Your husband has little respect for your feelings and you as a human being and sees you more as a vessel to satisfy his needs.

He needs some serious IC and you both would benefit from MC too


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think what he is doing is villainous. He joined some site to meet women; pesters his wife to engage in sexual activity that she has made clear is not her thing, the sexual activity is for his pleasure only and he is being coersive. 

This is not a benign situation. He does not care about what she wants, nor her safety. He risk shaming her and his kids so he gets an orgasm. 

That is not a good husband or man. He needs help to control himself.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> If he were willing to keep it in the fantasy realm, I could act well enough and with enough alcohol to talk it through on the pillow only. The problem is that if I even try then he's really thinking it's going to happen. It's not going to happen. Even if I were 20 and unencumbered by children, duties, and a middle-aged body this is not what I would be doing.


I was an exhibitionist, so was my wife. Since marriage, my wife wanted to play a good girl, but continued to entertain my fantasies privately via roleplay. Unlike your situation though, she was VERY clear on where she stood, hence her fantasies became a satisfactory replacement. 

I can't say I've stopped "testing the electric fence" however, and maybe that's just what your husband is doing. How often does he bring it up?


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Typo said:


> I discovered quite by accident - because our level of trust is such that I don't check up on him - that he has a subscription to ****** *******. No idea if he's off boffing a more liberal wife over lunch. I hope not. I have not asked him, mostly because I am afraid a whole string of stuff is going to be unleashed.


Firstly, I would confront him with this. He's probably using the site to find those couples he talks about. You should clear this first to see what's going on. 

Secondly, talk to him about his fantasies and what are your boundaries regarding them. It's up to him what he'll do with that. 

You should keep in mind that this sexual fantasy was probably brewing for years in his mind and it wont go away.

I don't think you can do more than this at this moment.


----------



## Typo (Feb 1, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I was an exhibitionist, so was my wife. Since marriage, my wife wanted to play a good girl, but continued to entertain my fantasies privately via roleplay. Unlike your situation though, she was VERY clear on where she stood, hence her fantasies became a satisfactory replacement.
> 
> I can't say I've stopped "testing the electric fence" however, and maybe that's just what your husband is doing. How often does he bring it up?


I think this is more it, really. I say one thing to try and present a solution I'm comfortable with and he's running for the fence. It just makes it irritating though. A constant testing of boundaries is exhausting because then I'm in the position of being the denier. I would say he brings up something along these lines about every time we have sex - which at this point is actually not all that often now that I'm really thinking about it. Once a week usually. 

I don't want to vilify him. He is a great husband in many ways. He's not going to swinger clubs - he's just talking about it. After the responses last night I got on his computer and searched his history for the past six months (he never clears off his computer). I didn't find anything beyond what I already knew (the discussion boards and tumblr). What I saw that was ash mad was almost a year ago when I was on his computer checking a recipe online and his email notification popped up with an email from ash mad - it seemed more of a generic one and not really a hook up email. At least from the notice.

At the time I was working in a job that required 150% of my time and effort. I know he felt like a widower. 

I'm going to just flat out ask him. That seems like the honorable way to deal with his being on Ash Mad at all. Something I really should have done months ago. 

Thank you for the thoughts and advice. It's helping me see every side of this.


----------



## Typo (Feb 1, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> You should keep in mind that this sexual fantasy was probably brewing for years in his mind and it wont go away.


I think that's what bothers me. The fact that this is a repeating element is putting a quiet wedge in our marriage. He can't move past it and I think it's become kind of an obsession on his part.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmmm, once a week, everytime you have sex? Then yeah I can see what you mean, that's just exhausting. Like hey, my wife has a fantasy of bending me over, if she nags me about it every week I would be investing in a metal chastity belt. I normally test the boundaries only once in a blue moon and my wife just tells me to get fked hehe. However, she does use it later as an idea to roleplay the next time we have sex so the fantasy is satisfied regardless.

I also have wilder fantasies then exhibitionism, including swinging fantasies. My wife has satisfied the former both physically in the past but it's just roleplay now and the latter is strictly roleplay. She's very firm on those boundaries in particular, and over time I actually grew to appreciate her stubborness.

Hmmm, maybe you can bring up a "fantasy" about strap-ons with him and once he squeals see if you can get him to understand that's how you feel about it. WARNING: Might backfire if he's actually into having things inserted into his anus!


----------



## Typo (Feb 1, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm, once a week, everytime you have sex? Then yeah I can see what you mean, that's just exhausting. Like hey, my wife has a fantasy of bending me over, if she nags me about it every week I would be investing in a metal chastity belt. I normally test the boundaries only once in a blue moon and my wife just tells me to get fked hehe. However, she does use it later as an idea to roleplay the next time we have sex so the fantasy is satisfied regardless.
> 
> I also have wilder fantasies then exhibitionism, including swinging fantasies. My wife has satisfied the former both physically in the past but it's just roleplay now and the latter is strictly roleplay. She's very firm on those boundaries in particular, and over time I actually grew to appreciate her stubborness.
> 
> Hmmm, maybe you can bring up a "fantasy" about strap-ons with him and once he squeals see if you can get him to understand that's how you feel about it. WARNING: Might backfire if he's actually into having things inserted into his anus!


Ha ha ha! I have actually thought about turning the tables on him with something outrageous, but I am afraid it would backfire. It's hard to get him to understand how this pressure makes me feel. As with all marital difficulties, I am partially to blame for never really taking a very, very firm stand and telling him to "get fked" By ignoring this I think I'm at least somewhat allowing him to think there's a break in the fence somewhere he just has to find it.


----------



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Typo said:


> He can't move past it and I think it's become kind of an obsession on his part.


This is most likely true. 



> As with all marital difficulties, I am partially to blame for never really taking a very, very firm stand and telling him to "get fked" By ignoring this I think I'm at least somewhat allowing him to think there's a break in the fence somewhere he just has to find it.


I don't have a solution for you. If you take a firm stand it's very likely that he'll stop pestering you but will in time resent you for not meeting his desires. If you allow 'a break in the fence' he'll just start pushing to make it bigger.

Talk to him and make sure you'll not change your mind about this when you do. Perhaps it could help if you offer yourself something new instead.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Yup exactly! My wife has been very understanding to complement her very firm stance when it comes to it as well via the fantasy roleplays. This is standard I found for enforcing boundaries to be the most fair and most effective I guess. It's unfortunate my wife and I both forget to remember how to maintain consistently good boundaries and arrangements like that, and how to ensure that with present and future issues. It's a challenge I guess.

The ability to enforce and maintain healthy boundaries seems to be one of the most important skills to learn in marriage I found.


----------



## Typo (Feb 1, 2013)

We had the talk yesterday, and as I was afraid, it sort of unraveled into something that I now have to come to grips with. 

He is not cheating on me, it's almost worse than that, if that makes any sense. Because that email was so long ago and I haven't seen another one I think it was a pitch from them because of his activity on a certain literary erotica sites message boards. He said once he realized I was not up for the lifestyle he stopped looking. But he didn't seem especially sorry. 

He's just really unhappy with every aspect of his life. And has been for years. This is going to get long, sorry. We've had financial difficulties since 2008, like most of the world. He had to take a job that paid far less than he was used to and I went to work in a really demanding job to pay some bills. Usually we've had our own business. 

He's been drinking steadily more and more the past few years and the few times I said anything about it resulted in explosions so I just stopped saying anything. In December he decided he wanted to stop nicotine, which he did with the help of a hypnotherapist. He also decided he wanted to stop drinking so he did both at once.

Long story short, yesterday he said he felt broken. Like he just wasn't there anymore. Like he's deeply unhappy with everything and can't feel anything. He doesn't feel healthy, he doesn't feel good. When I confronted him about the Ash Mad thing he seemed genuine in his explanation, but he didn't exactly seem sorry. 

Really, I think he's headed deep into the very typical male mid-life crisis. I also don't think he loves me anymore nor is he attracted to me. I've been letting this all go for a long while thinking it was a phase he would get out of eventually. I don't think so anymore. I think the whole swinging thing was his attempt to generate some excitement in his life. 

How does one support a husband who is so closed off emotionally and so unhappy? I don't even want to be around him and I am now letting myself feel all the things I've been letting go for the past few years - so I'm now pissed off. 

He did say he needed to go see a therapist, but he's been saying that a while and won't actually make an appointment.


----------



## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

This is his problem.

Some fixation he's gotten into his head that he needs to let go.

Carl Jung said: "The foremost of all illusions is that anything can ever satisfy anyone. That illusions stands behind all that is unendurable in life and in front of all progress..."

Meaning: If he decides in his head that he MUST have this stuff in his sex life than he will never be content (we can DECIDE to feel discontented about literally every facet of our life). 

At some point, a person has to decide: _this is enough._ _This is the happy compromise I am able to reach in a world that can never fully satisfy anyone in every way._



So, provided you don't reject him a lot, are loving outside of the bedroom and are engaged/passionate/emotive when you are in bed that's what he needs to do. Decide (happily) that what he has is enough.

See, I believe that sex=love for men, and men need sex to feel love. 

But I don't believe taking your wife to a swingers club is a part of 'making love to her'...it's just wrongly channeled testosterone/ sexual energy


----------



## Omgitsjoe (Oct 1, 2012)

Typo ,

Im very sorry to hear about the issues you're having right now with the husband. When i started reading the thread i at first thought that you were fortunate since the husband was at least involving you rather than just going about behind your back but in seeing the update above i am truely sorry.

He may be very frustrated since you have not given him any hope that you're willing to at least explore this " other " side with him thus feels it's the end ?? Perhaps as a last ditch effort why not do try .... even once what he wants like caming with another couple ?? It just may provide a spark in him and a new found love for you .... as strange as it may sound ??? Good luck !!


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sorry about this. I am glad you are taking a careful look at the situation in your marriage. 

I think you should not take his word about the cheating. It may be best to get tested for stds. 

I hope I don't make you angry but I think you have to make sure to protect yourself and your kids. He can no longer be relied on for that. He seems bent on taking what ever he can get to save himself. 

The best to you.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I don't think you should support him, because he is taking you for granted, not appreciating you and cheating at least online and in his mind.

You need to state very clealry what you want and need from him, and tell him what your boundaries are. Let him know that you are not sure you want to be with him anymore as his actions have caused distrust etc

He needs shaking up and I don't think he'll change unless he knows you are serious.

I would also let him know that marital counseling is a must if he wants to consider staying with you, no more online chats or emails to others and he needs to lay off the porn and focus on you.


----------



## Typo (Feb 1, 2013)

I think he's just in a really bad place, which happens - especially for a man who has somewhat lost his livelihood and had to make due with something less than he would like. 

I really do not think he's cheated on me (and I do have my reasons for this, it's not just naivete), I just think he doesn't feel guilty for wanting to -if the distinction makes sense. He really is a wonderful husband and father. I think I failed to see that he was falling deeper and deeper into a depression. Every girl wants to see their husband as someone strong - not just physically. The rock of the family against which all obstacles smash and fall, rendered of their threat. 

But when he could not save us from financial issues I think it took something away from him that he can't get past. So, how do you begin to feel like a man again? Sex. Preferably the wilder the better.

He also has a much more varied sexual history than I do. When we met he'd been in a self-imposed one year celibacy. So, I think the idea of this being somewhat of an addiction issue is something I have to face. It goes along with the nicotine and the booze. He's been masking something. 

On any other kind of board this would be TMI, but I can count only a handful of times where he was a sexually selfish lover. I come first. This is a man I love, value, and want to stay married to. I just have to figure out how to meet him at a place where he feels that masculine beastly excitement again and I don't feel compromised. And understanding how to support him while he figures it all out is going to be hard.


----------



## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

All men love sexual variety, it's one reason porn is so huge especially for married men. But few have the guts enough to approach their wives asking for it (variety) he's a brave guy for sure.


----------



## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Mr B said:


> All men love sexual variety, it's one reason porn is so huge especially for married men. But few have the guts enough to approach their wives asking for it (variety) he's a brave guy for sure.


He is brave but on the other hand not very respectful. I am the husband and my wife not too long ago actually decided to ask me to have a threesome. She wanted to have this threesome with me and another man. She talked to me about it, explained why she wanted it, and I understood. For her it was all about the attention (or so she said) she wanted two strong men on her and trying to please her. 

Sounds like a fair fantasy, **** I have thought about women like that, no I do not think about it that often but if it happened that would be hot. So I could understand her thinking. 

Well the more we talked about it, the more I got scared. It turned into let's have a threesome, to lets have a threesome with this guy I work with because I have alot of sexual desire for him. 

That made me think... she is not happy and she is looking for something else. Really in a nushell what it was is that I had stopped really caring about myself, mainly because of the lack of passion in our marriage and my inability to "fix" our issues, but that is another story for another time. 

My point in saying this is, if you are not comfortable with something be true to yourself and your husband. You have to set boundaries so that he knows exactly what is ok, and what is not ok. Without boundaries, people will walk all over us, people can sense it. 

Once I found out all this stuff my wife told me, I started to improve me and did the 180. It is working. She has since admitted that she rarely thinks about him anymore, tries to stay away from him at work. Fantasies are one thing but reality is another... you have to be prepaired if you want to cross those two. 

Stick to your guns, if you are not comfortable make sure he knows it and stick with it. If he doesnt want to respect that I promise you, there is someone out there that will. Myself included.


----------



## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

I am so sorry you are in this situation. If I found hubby on that website I'd flip.


----------



## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Typo said:


> I think he's just in a really bad place, which happens - especially for a man who has somewhat lost his livelihood and had to make due with something less than he would like.
> 
> I really do not think he's cheated on me (and I do have my reasons for this, it's not just naivete), I just think he doesn't feel guilty for wanting to -if the distinction makes sense. He really is a wonderful husband and father. I think I failed to see that he was falling deeper and deeper into a depression. Every girl wants to see their husband as someone strong - not just physically. The rock of the family against which all obstacles smash and fall, rendered of their threat.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup:

I applaud your undying love for your husband and sincerely wish that the two of you could work it out together. I hope he will regain his fire and confidence, and be the person you can be proud of. This is one case where I don't advise divorce, if you and husband are working as a team to make your marriage better, then there is always hope. Who knows, maybe your future life will be even happier.

Just be warned, that it will require real teamwork to succeed. If you are doing all the work and he isn't, then your efforts will fail.

A food for the thought: One does not need to be very very materially rich to be happy.


----------



## Typo (Feb 1, 2013)

Thank you for the replies. I decided to try a few things to create a shift. But, you're right, if I'm the only one doing the work it's not going to work. I'm trying to come up with one thing we can do every day together and then making it happen. And that includes sex or some kind of sex every day. But so far it's just me promoting this, he just does not seem real interested. 

Today we went on a walk before taking the kids to school. We left later than I wanted to, but the kids had been instructed to make breakfast, get lunches finished up, and be ready to go. Usually he spends all morning yelling at them to make it all happen.

It was perhaps the most uncomfortable walk of my life.

We didn't talk, we didn't even really walk at the same pace. He went, but begrudgingly does not even begin to describe it. I'm a pretty good energy sensor - I can feel the vibe of other people. It was like walking along next to a jagged piece of metal. 

Where in the past I might have asked him how he was feeling or tried to pry it out of him, I'm not going to. What I'm going to do instead is just keep this up for the month of February. If I get to March 1st and he's still so hard to be around and our sex life is still off then it's going to be time to talk about next steps. 

I just wish I had realized sooner that things had gotten this bad and I REALLY wish I knew what he was feeling aside from the obvious depression.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Typo,
You sound like a delightful wife. It is ok to have boundaries and yours seem very reasonable. 


QUOTE=Typo;1409824]I am so thankful I've stumbled onto this site. I haven't had the first clue how to get advice and save my marriage. My husband and I have been together 18 years and we have two kids. We have a mostly happy marriage. I've read all the threads for the past week and I'd say we mostly have matching sex drives. He doesn't complain about how often and I don't complain about it being a duty.

The problem is more complex. My husband has gotten pretty into online sites (not just porn, he's also into blogs and discussion groups). He has this driving need to be very public with sex. He'd really like for me to go to a swingers club with him and just "watch." He'd also like for us to have an online relationship with other couples and "watch" them and let them watch us. And he'd really like to rent an airplane and have sex in the back with the pilot watching (apparently there's some kind of local service that does this? WTF?). You get the idea. I think he's even researched inviting someone over.

I am really not okay with any of this. In fact, I'm totally skeeved out by it. If he were willing to keep it in the fantasy realm, I could act well enough and with enough alcohol to talk it through on the pillow only. The problem is that if I even try then he's really thinking it's going to happen. It's not going to happen. Even if I were 20 and unencumbered by children, duties, and a middle-aged body this is not what I would be doing.

The problem is that every time we have sex there's this shadow of expectation hovering over us. Like I'm not being the up for anything porn star of his dreams and he's disappointed. It's not like we have totally vanilla sex, but with two teenagers in the house we're not swinging from the ceiling either. I just like to be close and I'm still totally into him even after all these years.

I discovered quite by accident - because our level of trust is such that I don't check up on him - that he has a subscription to ****** *******. No idea if he's off boffing a more liberal wife over lunch. I hope not. I have not asked him, mostly because I am afraid a whole string of stuff is going to be unleashed.

The other day we had just finished having sex TWICE when he said "there's this couple in London who want to talk with us." I just pretended to not hear him. I've told him this is not something I'm comfortable with. He knows. He tells me my drawing the line makes him feel like he wants something dirty. 

I don't know where to go from here.[/QUOTE]


----------

