# Hello.



## booned (Feb 12, 2020)

I just joined this place looking for advice and support. I'm currently on a trial separation from my wife of 5 years (been together 15).

I'm 34, no kids just us and our pets.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Welcome what has happened to get to this point?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I believe you have to give a few responses to be able to post in a particular fourm. So if you want start here and it can always be moved if required.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hi, @booned. Welcome to TAM. Sorry you had to look for us, but I'm glad you found us. If that makes any sense? 

What has happened to your marriage to get you both into this situation?

Any infidelity on either side?

Who has moved out? 

Have you seen a lawyer to establish your legal rights?

Is counselling on the cards?

What would resolve the situation to your satisfactions and your wife's satisfaction?


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## booned (Feb 12, 2020)

Hi thanks for the welcome.

My wife sat me down last month and fed me the old 'i love you but I'm not in love with you' line. She said she wanted a break, and wasn't sure if she even wanted to try and work it out.

Reasons were my drinking habits and ambition - as in I had none. She was right. Although one problem likely caused the other. The warning signs were there and I buried my head in the sand. Thus the separation.

I wasn't full blown typical alcoholic but I was well on my way there. Since this happened, I've been to a few AA meetings and haven't touched a drop bar a couple of weeks back when I went out with a friend.

Initially, I stayed in our house - in separate rooms - and stayed amicable. I respected her need for space. She started blowing hot and cold though. One minute she would be open and it would feel like we would be getting back to normal, then she would just close up. She started playing games like wearing her wedding rings when she was out and taking them off whenever she was around me. I got frustrated with the mixed messages and moved out that week. I go back home every lunchtime whilst she's at work and walk the dog.

I now just try to keep busy with work and taking care of myself, staring at 4 walls at the new place wasnt helping.

In my isolation I started thinking about my drinking and why I did it too much, I've been picking apart our relationship and how it was on life support long before I started drinking. 

She's a workaholic. Doesn't get home until 6pm and then spends most her time talking to work colleagues or moaning to me about her day. Any free time we had was spent either apart or with friends and family.

Intimacy dwindled to nothing as did sex. Sex used to be spontaneous and exciting, then it turned into a planned event and had to be scheduled (huge turn off). She would always withdraw from intimacy because she assumed I was trying it on. When we did have sex it was basic starfish stuff. She would be interested in trying new stuff sexually but wouldn't follow though.

She wouldn't offer any encouragement and only pointed out my flaws and failures.

I became so withdrawn and worn down that I just felt numb I didn't care about anything. All of the time. So I started drinking and I enjoyed because I felt alive.

My fault was not communicating my concerns and just accepting them. I know that now. I've accepted my blame in this, but I don't think she's ready to accept hers so we can move forward.

I also have a suspicion that she's seeing someone else. Whilst we were talking about terms of the separation, I mentioned dating other people. She was coy, wouldn't give a straight answer and said 'if your head gets turned then don't dismiss it'. I also found birth control tablets in the bathroom, which she wasn't on whilst we were together.

How do I approach her with this? I want to reconcile, but part of me is now questioning if it's even worth it?

Sorry for the rant!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@booned not a rant, mate. Just your honest feelings expressed amongst friends. 

Your drinking was not a cause of the problems, however it was a symptom.

It seems that your wife was cutting you out of her life, so you replaced her with alcohol. You might just as easily have taken up a hobby, instead, like fishing, etc.

I am not one to immediately shout: "Oh! Your husband/wife is cheating on you" but I feel it would be remiss of me not to warn you that it's possible your wife has been cheating on you, either emotionally or physically. It's possible that a lover has pressured her into becoming exclusive with them, or she just wants to play the field.

I would suggest marital counselling, is that an option?

Also, seek free initial consultations with the best divorce lawyers in your town to at least find out what your options are.

Might be worth getting checked for STDs, just in case.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Look, brother...

You got the ILYBINILWY speech...

She wants space...

She spends much time out of the house...

You can damn near bank on her having a boyfriend. 

All of that said, it doesn't sound like she was a stellar partner prior to this. On top of being a questionable partner, now it appears she is also low character. 

I'm not suggesting you were a stellar partner, either. It sounds like you're beginning to recognize the ways that you were deficient. But if she does have a boyfriend, your deficiencies as a partner in no way justifies her actions.

What are you actually trying to save?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Not much to approach, she's already given you the ILYBNILWY speech, and is on birth control , and told you to look around to find a woman who wants you. 

She's checked out!!!! 

Nothing you going to be able to do to make her want you.

Go and get a lawyer, and clean up this mess.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*"Trial Separation," ILYBINILWY, and "Go find another woman for sex," @booned ~ are all too often code phrases for the possibility of marital cheating!

Can you safely rule out this possibility?

Please procure a lawyer to protect your rights, and if you can, start researching her social media. You may well end up being totally surprised, exactly like I was!
*


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## booned (Feb 12, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> Look, brother...
> 
> You got the ILYBINILWY speech...
> 
> ...


I dont know what I'm trying to save, or if I want to anymore. Part of me wants to just dump all my thoughts onto her and see how she deals with it, making a decision based on her reaction.



MattMatt said:


> @booned not a rant, mate. Just your honest feelings expressed amongst friends.
> 
> Your drinking was not a cause of the problems, however it was a symptom.
> 
> ...


There isnt much point in councelling if she doesnt know if she wants to reconcile or not. And I agree, I'm reluctant to shout cheater without solid proof. Especially considering how anti-cheating she has always been. 

The STI thing is worth checking though, although we havent been intimate since October last year. Thanks.



Tilted 1 said:


> Not much to approach, she's already given you the ILYBNILWY speech, and is on birth control , and told you to look around to find a woman who wants you.
> 
> She's checked out!!!!
> 
> ...





arbitrator said:


> *"Trial Separation," ILYBINILWY, and "Go find another woman for sex," @booned ~ are all too often code phrases for the possibility of marital cheating!
> 
> Can you safely rule out this possibility?
> 
> ...


Im 50 / 50 on the whole thing. Part of me knows how anti-cheating she is, but the other part questions why she would say and do these things knowing that? I dont want to be all clandestine and start stalking her social media and reading her messages (I do know the passwords providing she hasnt changed them).

I've given her until the end of March to decide what she wants (if I still want the same thing at that point), then we will move towards divorce. I'm reluctant to rush into anything without 100% knowing, and she is a sensible woman and wont try to screw me over like that.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*When it does happen, please let us know how it goes, @booned ~ we care!*


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

booned said:


> I dont know what I'm trying to save, or if I want to anymore. Part of me wants to just dump all my thoughts onto her and see how she deals with it, making a decision based on her reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know determination but , it not the same as foolishness believing in some lie a cheater will tell you. But regardless of the view she once held about affairs. It's now changed. Do not believe us here but the words of you own wife. If she needs to draw you a picture ask her, I'm sure she would do that for you. 

Your hanging on to a memory that, no longer exists. All you need to do is accept it. If you don't you'll be the joke with your family and friends.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

booned said:


> My wife sat me down last month and fed me the old 'i love you but I'm not in love with you' line. She said she wanted a break, and wasn't sure if she even wanted to try and work it out.
> 
> Reasons were my drinking habits and ambition -
> 
> ...


It all adds up to your W has a boyfriend. Start digging.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

And the reason for the lack of sex between you and her, is it would be cheating on her Affair Partner. Sorry Booned


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@booned, marital counselling would be difficult under the circumstances but individual counselling for you might be of benefit to you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@booned

Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It gives some very good advice on what to do for either reconciling or figuring out when it's time to walk away.

I know this is tough. Many of us here have been through this situation.


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## HolyPepa (Dec 23, 2019)

Welcome!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@booned I have moved your thread to Coping with infidelity as it is clear your wife has been cheating on you.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Long thread and I haven't read very post. However, there's a key issue here that sabotages any chance at R.

If you're serious about R, you need to confront her as to whether there's another man that she has feelings for.

For purposes of my comment, all you need for her to confirm is that it's an EA.
She may not be reluctant to admit to an EA. If there's another man, ask if he's married w/kids. 

Why? If she's seeing someone else (EA or PA), then any attempt to R is sabotaged. 
Because marriage and the challenges of living with you (or anyone) day to day is very different than dating the OM.

She'll compare you to the OM (and even if you were perfect, and nobody is) ... no spouse (husband or wife) can compete with the care feel romance of dating.

Finally, FYI if the OM is a coworker, then R will require 100% NC (which will probably require her to change jobs). Why? because every time she sees him (even passing by on the sidewalk) her feelings re-ignite.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

booned said:


> Hi thanks for the welcome.
> 
> My wife sat me down last month and fed me the old 'i love you but I'm not in love with you' line. She said she wanted a break, and wasn't sure if she even wanted to try and work it out.
> 
> ...


I don't know, I'm reading here that she was such a ****ty wife you started drinking so much you thought you were an alcoholic, but as soon as you moved out you mostly quit drinking except one time socially. Why do you want to keep her? Is she a good mother to your kids?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't know, I'm reading here that she was such a ****ty wife you started drinking so much you thought you were an alcoholic, but as soon as you moved out you mostly quit drinking except one time socially. Why do you want to keep her? Is she a good mother to your kids?


They have no kids. They have pets, but no kids.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> They have no kids. They have pets, but no kids.


You say that like you read the opening post or something. :grin2:

Married 5 years, no kids, drove you to drink because the relationship was so lousy, evidence of infidelity, makes more than you so you're unlikely to lose everything you worked for in a divorce. Time to move on.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

ILYBNILWY speech, suggesting a separation, new birth control pills when you have not had sex since October, saying if someone turns your head to go for it.

They all add up to her having a boyfriend and does not want to cheat on him with you. You would be surprised at the number of women who say they are horrified by cheaters until they become one. Then it is all lies, deception, and blame shifting.

Talk to an attorney to know what you can expect.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I think she is trying to see if you step up and be the man she needs you to be to stay in the marriage. It doesn’t sound like your very motivated to do this. 
You need to fight for your marriage or let it go. As a women... I would want my man to fight for me and prove that I’m worth it.

Also what about your job? Is it true that you lack ambition?


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

The speech, the need for space and the you can see others all add up to this woman is done with this relationship. She has moved on. Whether she is cheating or not doesn't change the end result. Your relationship with her is toast. Get a lawyer and start divorce proceedings. There is nothing to save here. Time will help you heal. She is way ahead of you in the detachment part. Implement the 180 ASAP. Sorry man, but these are the cards you have been given. Reconciliation is not in the cards for you. Walk away and avoid more pain and ego bruises. Get into Individual Counseling to make better choices and cope better and healthier from this point forward. It is all about you and YOUR self worth now.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> I think she is trying to see if you step up and be the man she needs you to be to stay in the marriage. It doesn’t sound like your very motivated to do this.
> You need to fight for your marriage or let it go. As a women... I would want my man to fight for me and prove that I’m worth it.
> 
> Also what about your job? Is it true that you lack ambition?


You know what, if I was with a woman that was cheating, I would not fight for you for a half a second. 

In fact, you (OP's Wife) Could never ever fight hard enough to get me back, ever. 
.
And make no mistake, she is and has been cheating for a while...


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> You know what, if I was with a woman that was cheating, I would not fight for you for a half a second.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It sounds like that was the terms of the separation. He asked if they could see other people and she essentially said if we want. That was the time to object to seeing other people but he didn’t.
So stop calling her a cheater.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> It sounds like that was the terms of the separation. He asked if they could see other people and she essentially said if we want. That was the time to object to seeing other people but he didn’t.
> So stop calling her a cheater.


She's been cheating since October.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> It sounds like that was the terms of the separation. He asked if they could see other people and she essentially said if we want. That was the time to object to seeing other people but he didn’t.
> So stop calling her a cheater.


No, he asked what about seeing other people, or something like that... Way different thing. 

Of course she is a cheater, you must read English way different that me.

She has been having an affair since she stopped sleeping with him in October. She is on birth control. Of course she is a cheater, how can you even say that... 

I think you have a completely different concept of cheating... 

If she wanted to divorce him because he was a drunk, fine, divorce... 

She is and has been cheating.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

BluesPower said:


> No, he asked what about seeing other people, or something like that... Way different thing.
> 
> Of course she is a cheater, you must read English way different that me.
> 
> ...


If this was a bet, my odds are against her not cheating. All the signs are there. Plural= the signs are 99% true that she stepped out of the marriage and finally told the husband about it with the speech, separation and of course OK to see other people. It is very naive indeed to think vows were not broken by this woman!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Yeah...she has been and is cheating. Probably much longer than since October. That is just when she decided to commit totally to her new AP.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

TDSC60 has it right. She's cheating.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I think she is trying to see if you step up and be the man she needs you to be to stay in the marriage. It doesn’t sound like your very motivated to do this.
> You need to fight for your marriage or let it go. As a women... I would want my man to fight for me and prove that I’m worth it.
> 
> Also what about your job? Is it true that you lack ambition?


She cut of intimacy, as a result he started drinking more alcohol.

Then came her ILYBINILWY speech and I suppose it's possible she isn't cheating on him, but you wouldn't get anyone to take a bet on that, because the odds wouldn't favour it as being of potentially enough profit.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

booned said:


> How do I approach her with this? I want to reconcile, but part of me is now questioning if it's even worth it?


It has been my experience - as a woman as well as having seen it with other women over and over and over throughout my lifetime - that when a woman is done, she's DONE.

Don't humiliate yourself trying to get back with her. She's DONE.

You need to move on.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> You say that like you read the opening post or something. :grin2:
> 
> Married 5 years, no kids, drove you to drink because the relationship was so lousy, evidence of infidelity, *makes more than you* so you're unlikely to lose everything you worked for in a divorce. Time to move on.


Not stated by the OP.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Not stated by the OP.


Hah, good catch, I must have crossed threads.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Withholding all the facts, lying by omission to one's spouse, these equal cheating.

Anyone is entitled and 'permitted' to fall out of love while married. Amor'e is friable.

How you act while in that "State of Oh-my-Oh" is the key to one's character.

If you get too close to a co-worker (it happens) one should keep it low key until divorced.
Many cannot.

It is easy to fall, hard to put on the brakes when your heart and mind are raging, racing, in a dizzy spiral.
Yes, and when your loins are tingling.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> She cut of intimacy, as a result he started drinking more alcohol.
> 
> 
> 
> Then came her ILYBINILWY speech and I suppose it's possible she isn't cheating on him, but you wouldn't get anyone to take a bet on that, because the odds wouldn't favour it as being of potentially enough profit.




The OP doesn’t seem to be making this a big deal. It’s because he doesn’t think she’s cheating or he just doesn’t care.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> The OP doesn’t seem to be making this a big deal. It’s because he doesn’t think she’s cheating or he just doesn’t care.


I don't think you could have read the same thread?


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

This comes down to two.people who can't take responsibility. She is probably cheating and justifying it, blameshifting. You are definitely not taking ownership of your drinking. No one can MAKE you drink or MAKE you an alcoholic, just like no one can MAKE her cheat.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

justlistening said:


> This comes down to two.people who can't take responsibility. She is probably cheating and justifying it, blameshifting. You are definitely not taking ownership of your drinking. No one can MAKE you drink or MAKE you an alcoholic, just like no one can MAKE her cheat.


Keep reading, he has owned his faults and his drinking. He just wrote out why he climbed into a bottle. Giving reasons is not the same as “Making.”


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> justlistening said:
> 
> 
> > This comes down to two.people who can't take responsibility. She is probably cheating and justifying it, blameshifting. You are definitely not taking ownership of your drinking. No one can MAKE you drink or MAKE you an alcoholic, just like no one can MAKE her cheat.
> ...


So cheating because you're being denied sex is a reason too, right? Why you "climbed into a bed?"


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

justlistening said:


> So cheating because you're being denied sex is a reason too, right? Why you "climbed into a bed?"




I agree. He drank because he was weak and he chose poorly. She cheated because she was weak and she chose poorly. We do things because we choose to do them, not because someone did something...

There are fundamentally differences with how people apologize and take responsibility.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> justlistening said:
> 
> 
> > So cheating because you're being denied sex is a reason too, right? Why you "climbed into a bed?"
> ...


Yes and no. Figuring out and sharing what your headspace was when you made poor choices is not necessarily making excuses. It is a first step in figuring out your own faulty thinking and how to have healthier reactions in the future. It is only an excuse if that is where it stops. It seems the OP is examining his choice to drink beyond blaming it on his wife.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

justlistening said:


> So cheating because you're being denied sex is a reason too, right? Why you "climbed into a bed?"


Yes, it is a reason or an excuse. The fight you are trying to make doesn't exist.

You said he didn’t accept responsibility and he did.
You said he didn’t take ownership and he did.
You said no one can make you do anything and he said the drinking was his choice.

So, we read his post differently which is fine. 

It works if you use your post above as well. It is a reason, excuse or a precursor to marriage problems. No one makes you do anything it is a choice, unless there is coercion involved or force.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

justlistening said:


> I'm nor better. Not even a little bit. That's the point.
> 
> Several people including the AP have basically said he drinks because of his wife. It's her fault he drinks.
> 
> ...


He didn’t imply it was his wife’s fault he drinks at all - that is how YOU read it because of your own biases. He shared what stressors caused him to poorly choose to drink to feel “better” and then stopped his drinking. Even after he stated that you were harping on him blaming his wife before anyone else jumped in with studies about addiction being hereditary...seemed pretty clear to everyone but you that he took personal responsibility for his drinking. But you felt the need to hammer that home a few more times, basically implying his drinking was much worse than her cheating. Because you have a personal issue with alcohol. 

Of course he would benefit from understanding he can control himself and not others. Your posts didn’t convey that - your posts conveyed that he was the villain because he drank.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I just deleted a thread jack discussing studies about why people do what they do. If you want to discuss this, start a new thread. I'll even move your thread jack to the new thread... just PM me to let me know to move them.

However, on this thread, stop the thread jack. Please address the OP in a way that gives him support.

{Speaking as a moderator.}


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I am out until the op comes back. Here’s how I read the thread.



booned said:


> Hi thanks for the welcome.
> 
> Reasons were my drinking habits and ambition - as in I had none. She was right. Although one problem likely caused the other. The warning signs were there and*I *buried my head in the sand. Thus the separation.


 Hmmm sounds like he is accepting his faults right here.



> Since this happened, I've been to a few AA meetings and haven't touched a drop bar a couple of weeks back when I went out with a friend.


Sounds like he is addressing his issues here.



> I became so withdrawn and worn down that I just felt numb I didn't care about anything. All of the time. So I started drinking and I enjoyed because because I felt alive.


 Sounds like he has identified HIS problem.



> My fault was not communicating my concerns and just accepting them. I know that now. I've accepted my blame in this, but I don't think she's ready to accept hers so we can move forward!


This is someone who sees his own foibles and problems. He accepts his blame and is addressing his issues. Yes, I cut out the HISTORY he should give so, we can help him out and give advice.

He is on the right road. There is NOTHING wrong with identifying the issues which caused him to start excessively drinking. 

Now, he understands he can’t shutdown and stop communicating. 
He understands he shouldn’t bury his head in the sand. 
He understands drinking makes things worse.
He understands he has to make better choices.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Now, he understand he can’t shutdown and stop communicating.
> He understand he shouldn’t bury his head in the sand.
> He understands drinking makes things worse.
> He understands he has to make better choices.



And hopefully, @booned understands that none of those things are at fault for her cheating. The cheating is all on her 100%.


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## justlistening (Jan 23, 2020)

Rubix Cubed said:


> phillybeffandswiss said:
> 
> 
> > Now, he understand he can’t shutdown and stop communicating.
> ...


Exactly
Her choice, her responsibility. 

Curious....if she posted saying she cheated and she knows it was on her, then listed the OP's drinking, etc. As things that made her vulnerable....

What would the response be?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

justlistening said:


> Exactly
> Her choice, her responsibility.
> 
> Curious....if she posted saying she cheated and she knows it was on her, then listed the OP's drinking, etc. As things that made her vulnerable....
> ...


 The exact same as above. All on her. Get a divorce because he drinks? Fine, but there is NO excuse for infidelity ... period.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

Booned

Here is a list of Dos & Don'ts:

1. *Do: See a lawyer. *Find out the possibilities. At this stage, it may be better to file. It can be called off after she shows you she wants the marriage. The longer you delay this, the longer the pain.

2.* Do: Have an STD test performed as soon as possible.*

3.* Do: Start showing courage, strength, and decisive action.* Women are drawn to this. They are not drawn to self-pity.

4.* Do: Start practicing the "180" technique as religiously as possible.* Here's a link: Healing Infidelity: The 180 for Hurt Spouses

5. *Do: Move back to your house.* It is your home too. Stop pouting. A man doesn't pout.

6. *Do: Start investigating her actions.* If he is married expose to his wife. Expose to the families.

7.* Do not: Have sex with her.* This would be viewed as forgiveness by a court.

8. *Do not: Do the "pick-me dance". *It is degrading and makes you look pathetic in her eyes in comparison to "Mr. Wonderful".

9. *Do Not: Cry in front of her or show emotion.*

10. *Do Not: Try to reason with her.*


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

OP- While on the 180....start developing YOU. Not just the navel gazing, but actual finding you. Get a hobby, work out and improve self image. Fall in love with YOU. Then, you will see this other stuff is easier to deal with. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Buffer (Dec 17, 2019)

Booned how are you doing?
Buffer


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you had her followed yet?


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Separation often means test driving another person to see if they're worthy of losing a marriage over. I've read where the most christian based, I'll never cheat has cheated, so forget history. Having an affair compromises all rational behavior at times, so consider the fact that another person is involved and is the catalyst behind her justification.


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## Buffer (Dec 17, 2019)

Booned, she has another and is gone from the marriage. Go 180 now. We all have flaws and blame is normally 50/50 in any relationship. However it seems
too convenient that you get the talk and she is coy about dating. Most likely a co worker so she doesn’t want work or him nuked in the fallout. 
Investigate if you want the truth, or let her gas light you. It is up to you.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You stated you were giving her until the end of March make up her mind. Well we are late in March.

Any updates?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@booned, any updates?


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

justlistening said:


> This comes down to two.people who can't take responsibility. She is probably cheating and justifying it, blameshifting. You are definitely not taking ownership of your drinking. No one can MAKE you drink or MAKE you an alcoholic, just like no one can MAKE her cheat.



Actually, that is factually incorrect.

There have been thousands of studies done on both, and they have shown that things such as alcoholism and being a sex addict can be imprinted on our DNA. They are diseases. This means that your genetic make-up can “MAKE” a person be those things. 
Childhood trauma also can cause these things because the mind is not fully developed until most are 25-28 years, so incidences of trauma quite often have an impact far past the developmental stage they were incurred in and have life long implications.

Keep trying to be well OP 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

a_new_me said:


> Actually, that is factually incorrect.
> 
> There have been thousands of studies done on both, and they have shown that things such as alcoholism and being a sex addict can be imprinted on our DNA. They are diseases. This means that your genetic make-up can “MAKE” a person be those things.
> Childhood trauma also can cause these things because the mind is not fully developed until most are 25-28 years, so incidences of trauma quite often have an impact far past the developmental stage they were incurred in and have life long implications.
> ...



Maybe the new age for getting a driver's license, drinking, buying cigarettes, watching pornography, voting, being able to have sex, and joining the military should be 29.

I mean if people's minds are not fully developed until 25-28, should they be burdened with these adult responsibilities?


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Maybe the new age for getting a driver's license, drinking, buying cigarettes, watching pornography, voting, being able to have sex, and joining the military should be 29.
> 
> I mean if people's minds are not fully developed until 25-28, should they be burdened with these adult responsibilities?


Fair questions - but the evidence is irrefutable - parts of our brain, including those which are relevant to our social behaviour, are not fully developed until mid/late twenties.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24173194


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

cp3o said:


> Fair questions - but the evidence is irrefutable - parts of our brain, including those which are relevant to our social behaviour, are not fully developed until mid/late twenties.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24173194


And to think my grandfather flew a plane over Germany in WWII at 22 years old!!!


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## Kamstel2 (Feb 24, 2020)

Just checking to see how you are doing?

You don’t need to prove she is sleeping with another guy to anyone but yourself. But even if she Isn’t, e We by would you want to stay with someone that has treated you this way????

Don’t you deserve better?????

Hope you are well.

Good luck, and stay strong!


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

notmyrealname4 said:


> And to think my grandfather flew a plane over Germany in WWII at 22 years old!!!


I pushed a wheelchair around the unveiling of the Bomber Command Memorial in Hyde Park 8 years ago. It contained my partner's uncle - 28 trips in a Halifax, transferred to training, went back to action, shot down on 5th trip of second tour, survived 6 months in Holland and Belgium, got back to UK, volunteered to bomb-aim/navigate Mosquitos, was Pathfinder training when took part in the Kiel raid on night-fighter landing disruption duty. Possibly the last RAF crew member to drop a bomb on Nazi Germany - certainly one of the last four.

He was 21 when he first flew over Germany.

All of which has nothing to do with the fact that parts of the brain don't fully mature until mid-late twenties. 

Probably helps explain why they could handle the trauma - the late developing areas include the awareness, and assessment of threats to one's safety - their ability to fear death was immature.

Doesn't mean they weren't brave, they were heroes - but they were evolutionarily disposed to take/downplay risks more than they would have done ten years later.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> And to think my grandfather flew a plane over Germany in WWII at 22 years old!!!


Yeah ... but he wasn't wearing skinny jeans, a man-bun, horn rimmed glasses and crying about needing a safe space.

So, there's _that_....

OP, any updates?


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Maybe the new age for getting a driver's license, drinking, buying cigarettes, watching pornography, voting, being able to have sex, and joining the military should be 29.
> 
> I mean if people's minds are not fully developed until 25-28, should they be burdened with these adult responsibilities?


Then maybe there should be a change in the Declaration of Independence so that everything gets covered? Citing medical evidence obviously....and the NRA are not qualified to “control” the testing results.

It is outdated and insignificant towards modern society.

Modern society and medicine and science has shown that the right to arm may have been applicable in the 1700’s, but not now.

It is evolution. And there are a lot of things that need to be modernized.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cp3o (Jun 2, 2018)

a_new_me said:


> Then maybe there should be a change in the Declaration of Independence so that everything gets covered? Citing medical evidence obviously....and the NRA are not qualified to “control” the testing results.
> 
> It is outdated and insignificant towards modern society.
> 
> ...


My understanding is that the right to bear arms is so that the citizens can form a militia to defend society against kings/dictators/tyrants etc.. Don't recall it mentioning anything to do with feelings of personal inadequacy.


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