# wife reveals truth after 17 years....



## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

yesterday, my wife revealed to me that she slept with her ex 4 months before she and I officially became a couple...

I know: not another _wife reveals_ thread. But this one has a distinction - I don't really care. She was the one who initially insisted on full disclosure from the very beginning on day 1. I went along because I wanted to reassure her that I wasn't a philanderer (2 years abstaining for me prior to her). She told me that it had been a year and a half since she was with him (on again off again ex). But truthfully i was not at all interested in any of these 'stats'. I remember thinking this ridiculous, no one that beautiful and sensuous with the world as her oyster would go without that long (i had my own reasons for abstaining). I told her that though impressed at her fortitude it made little difference to me and filed it away.

A year later, she confessed, that 5 mos before we started dating, to having blacked out when a guy friend walked her home and to this day can't remember details but is certain they had sex. What initially upset me about that revelation is that she told me this after interrogating me about an ONS i had already disclosed (she wanted additional details, in fact all of them) and then dropped her bomb on me when we were 20 minutes away from he parent's summer cottage where I was to meet the entire family for the first time. During a private moment, she became defensive. I distinctly remember being annoyed at her games and impulsively said told her that she needed to have an sti test before i would be intimate with her again. Again, at this point, we had been together for close to a year and my request was completely ridiculous. Determined to prove her point, she had the test once back home and handed me the printout before we proceeded to, well you know....

Over the years she has made unsolicited little comments determined to down play her past. Again, I know her and I understand human nature well enough to see through it, but being absolutely in love with her, I always played along. Overtime, I have come to playfully refer to these trysts as her "hottie girl stories" and have regularly commented on how grateful I am of her passion for life and her sexuality as a woman...

Yesterday, while out shopping she let slip that her previous boyfriend visited her a few days before her 'black out" story. I figured after all these years together, I was well within my right to graduate from 'playing along' and asked her to clarify. She did and so I pointed out that my understanding from previous chats was that the last time she was with him was the summer prior to our dating and 'maybe' 5 months, therefore, she was last with her ex 5 months before us, not the 12 she previously asserted. 

Again, to me it didn't matter. In fact, when I first met her, I expected there were 10 times the number of guys I would have to fight off in the arena before I could claim her heart, so one on again off again boyfriend of 4 years fell well short of what I had initially anticipated...

But for some crazy reason, her revelation hit me like a ton of bricks and triggered a massive panic attack. I couldn't sleep, I could hardly keep food down. I ended up popping a xanax and stayed in bed the entire next day.

WHAT
THE
HELL....

So here I am trying to rationalize this reaction. Maybe it is because, yes it was 17 years ago (ancient history) but there were 17 times 365 chances to bring it up. Maybe it is her double standard. Maybe it is that i have gotten too comfortable in our marriage (but isn't that a good thing?) and reopening this after seeing her give birth to our children, numerous anniversaries, and infinite moments, imagining her (okay seeing her in my mind's eye) sleep with him (who am i kidding - kcuf him) in our old bed in her old room just hits harder now.

She could see that I was clearly upset (inspite of my efforts - again, i felt embarrassed i was upset in the first place) and we went a couple of rounds. Her point was that she didn't want me to think she was a **** and that given the way I had abstained for almost 2 years, she wanted to be in the ballpark along side my 'mr perfect' (her words) self control.

Okay, that hurt...

Though I had previously told her I was a victim of csa at a very early age, because I was able to heal and develop mostly normal, I heretofore had spared her the gory details. What she didn't know was that my stint as a monk was a bucket list challenge stemming from my personal healing process and how/why I was able to do that...

I guess when I started writing this, I intended to include a question but somehow seemed to have answered it myself as part of the writing process.

Thank you for reading. Comments very much appreciated!!!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Your responds should have been, by my count that actually makes you a deceitful w****e,.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

All the other issues aside, it was 4 (or was it 5?) months before you committed to each other as a couple. It was before, not after. Why does it really matter? What am I missing here?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

james5588 said:


> yesterday, my wife revealed to me that she slept with her ex 4 months before she and I officially became a couple...
> 
> I know: not another _wife reveals_ thread. But this one has a distinction - I don't really care. She was the one who initially insisted on full disclosure from the very beginning. I went along because I wanted to reassure her that I wasn't a philanderer (2 years abstaining for me prior to her) but truthfully i was not at all interested in any of this. She told me that it had been a year and a half since she was with him (on again off again ex). I remember thinking this ridiculous, no one that beautiful and sensuous with the world as her oyster would go without that long (i had my own reasons for abstaining). I told her that though impressed at her fortitude it made little difference to me and filed it away.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not sure what to say here.

It happened before you two became an official couple. So I'm not sure why it matters. Yea, she said she disclosed and wanted you to disclose. She kept this one bit of info back because she had trouble handling it apparently. 

Your reaction seems way over the top.


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> All the other issues aside, it was 4 (or was it 5?) months before you committed to each other as a couple. It was before, not after. Why does it really matter? What am I missing here?


Honesty. It's the least he deserves, he bared his soul wrt the childhood CSA. She could have, and should have been honest sooner. 

Cheers,
V(13)


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Look while you can't change the past you can tell her that just to ensure she knows exactly what she was doing....and you absolutely have the right to tell her she that...does she think there should be no recourse...the hell with that. And when she says that hurt tell her that her deceit hurts far more and longer


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

james5588 said:


> yesterday, my wife revealed to me that she slept with her ex 4 months before she and I officially became a couple...
> 
> I know: not another _wife reveals_ thread. But this one has a distinction - I don't really care. She was the one who initially insisted on full disclosure from the very beginning. I went along because I wanted to reassure her that I wasn't a philanderer (2 years abstaining for me prior to her) but truthfully i was not at all interested in any of this. She told me that it had been a year and a half since she was with him (on again off again ex). I remember thinking this ridiculous, no one that beautiful and sensuous with the world as her oyster would go without that long (i had my own reasons for abstaining). I told her that though impressed at her fortitude it made little difference to me and filed it away.
> 
> ...


Maybe your panic attack is not about the cheating or really NOT CHEATING since you make it sound like this was before you were official so I don't even see it as such, maybe it is because she keeps telling you about stuff she is hiding. That would worry me, like what other revelation is there. I am not sure why this was disclosed as if you weren't official it's not cheating. Hope she is not testing the waters. 

Here is the thing most people have a sex life before you meet them or even before they agree to be exclusive. That is normal in today's society and you really have no right to be upset about it. I don't know why people even talk about this stuff, I mean I might ask are there any sex video's in your past that will show up. 

I am trying to understand your post. Are you religious and you both said you were abstaining but she didn't? I don't get why you not having sex when you were not committed is a big deal. Now maybe you are saying that she lied to you and told you she didn't have sex before that. If that is the case than that is a red flag as she is dishonest and you have a right to be upset about the lie, but then it's the lie you are upset about and deal with that. It's not the sex part. 

At the end of the day I think you guys need to talk about it.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Voltaire2013 said:


> Honesty. It's the least he deserves, he bared his soul wrt the childhood CSA. She could have, and should have been honest sooner.
> 
> Cheers,
> V(13)


Yes agreed honesty is absolutely important however something like this should not matter to begin with. It seems to me she held this back from the jump because he was judgemental about her past. I think she was being completely honest when she said she didn't want to come across as a **** considering he had abstained for 2 years. And all the little jokes about her trysts and her downplaying, that was supposed to make her feel comfortable sharing? OP's been making her feel guilty about stuff that shouldn't matter. 

I agree, OP's response is an overreaction.


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> Yes agreed honesty is absolutely important however something like this should not matter to begin with. It seems to me she held this back from the jump because he was judgemental about her past. I think she was being completely honest when she said she didn't want to come across as a **** considering he had abstained for 2 years. And all the little jokes about her trysts and her downplaying, that was supposed to make her feel comfortable sharing? OP's been making her feel guilty about stuff that shouldn't matter.
> 
> I agree, OP is overacting.


If they were 3 years married I'd agree. They are not. He knew in his gut all along but hearing it from her is different. The playful jokes were invitations from him to be honest if I am reading right (and OP can clarify). It's one thing to suspect for a long time, it's another to finally hear it from the horses mouth, as it were. I'd like to hear the from the OP on this. 

Cheers,
V(13)


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Voltaire2013 said:


> If they were 3 years married I'd agree. They are not. He knew in his gut all along but hearing it from her is different. The playful jokes were invitations from him to be honest if I am reading right (and OP can clarify). It's one thing to suspect for a long time, it's another to finally hear it from the horses mouth, as it were. I'd like to hear the from the OP on this.
> 
> Cheers,
> V(13)


I went back and reread OPs story to try to see it from your point of view. True, I see how the extended period of dishonesty is the problem and not necessarily her past. I see that OP pointed out she insisted on full disclosure in the beginning when he didn't care to know about her past, and that may actually have been what set off this issue which has spanned 17years. For whatever reason Mrs. OP felt guilty about her past to begin with and that may have been exacerbated by the OPs 2-year abstinence. 

I don't see any evidence that there is reason to doubt Mrs. OPs admission of embarrassment about her past. I agree that this calls for a serious conversation on honesty and the impact of unnecessary trickle truths and lies. A good opportunity for a learning lesson for the marriage. I also think this is a good opportunity for OP to try to get to the bottom of his wife's shame of her past. Yes OP has been slighted here but now he's best positioned to figure out the underlying issue and put an end to it and any possibility of it popping again in the future.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I do not see the problem. I had sex with about 25 girls right up to the time my wife and I got engaged. What did you want, a woman used but almost like new? As long as she did not cheat on you when you started your relationship, it does not matter. I have not heard the word philanderer since in 55 years. Did not even know anyone still uses it. Do not judge others by your morality. If it is so good why do married couples have a 50/50 chance of divorcing. Why do 70% of men and 50-60% of women cheat. My signature below says it all. 

You can look at your big problem a different way, she had sex with her ex but she chose you. You won, he lost. Did you actually abstain from sex for 2 years? I never met an adult that did that. That fact tells all about your views on sex which some would call old fashioned and I would know because I am old.  All kidding aside, your won dude, not worry, be happy.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

What would disturb me were I in your shoes, is that she pushed for a conversation disclosing all then lied to you during the conversation she wanted to have. That's what would really freak me out and make me question everything she's said and done all the time you've been together and, yes, pop a xanax!

The fact that she slept with him 4 months (or whenever) before you were a couple is, like, so what? But the fact that she brought the subject up and then lied about it? That's just really weird. And concerning.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

OP, I personally understand your reaction. This deceit understandably makes you feel insecure about your relationship because such deceit always begs the question, "what else is she lying about?" The interrogating about the ONS stands out to me. Spouses who are guilty of lying/infidelity in a relationship are usually paranoid that the other spouse is doing the same. It's called _projection_. I wonder if that is not why she interrogated you about the ONS. Maybe she is not telling you the whole truth about her last sexual encounter being only 5 months before you started dating.

If you two had agreed that you did not want to delve into each other's past relationships I would understand the leave-the-past-alone sentiment expressed here. From reading your post, I don't think that was the case since you told her about your CSA and all. You agreed on telling each other about that. If she didn't want to tell you about hers she should have said so instead of lying. If she thinks you will be judgemental then that points to a fundamental distrust towards you. And if she deosn't trust you to be mature about it, why is she getting into a relationship with you? Like it or not, a persons past is part of who they are. Sometimes we are ashamed of what we have done. True. But I don't agree with keeping someone in the dark about it who truly wants to know. If you don't want to tell, say so. The two of you can decide if the relationship should continue. _"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" Amos 3:3_

The thing about this past doesn't matter is that it does matter. Old demons seldom ever just disappear merely because we will them to. And identifying said demons makes them easier to deal with when two people have to live together.

Also, it seems like she is trickle-truthing you. Giving you little by little until she is ready to drop the bomb on you. I have a feeling it ain't gonna be a small bomb, friend.

If you mean what you said about not wanting to hold her past against her then express it as best you can. You two are already long married so I think you should make the relationship work. Show her that she will not be condemned for things she did back then. That she is in a safe place where she can trust you to love her despite the things she has done that she is ashamed of. This is true oneness; to be fully known yet fully accepted.

Godspeed, OP.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> Yes agreed honesty is absolutely important however something like this should not matter to begin with. It seems to me she held this back from the jump because he was judgemental about her past. I think she was being completely honest when she said she didn't want to come across as a **** considering he had abstained for 2 years. And all the little jokes about her trysts and her downplaying, that was supposed to make her feel comfortable sharing? OP's been making her feel guilty about stuff that shouldn't matter.
> 
> I agree, OP's response is an overreaction.


Once again blaming the victim, so he made jokes so it's OK that she lied to him? He said he didn't care and she was the one who pushed for disclosure just to lie to him. She could have told him right there but then she would have lost the upper hand. An upper hand that he didn't even care about. He has a right to be upset about that. 

I think she was being honest because she knew she would come off as at least a jerk for pushing him and then lying. Once again another person that has a lie of omission and then is upset when their spouse gets upset that they were keeping secrets.

And once again the person who is lied to comes on here is told to just shut up and get over it. Thanks that's great advice. 

@EleGirl I am beginning to think that you don't really think honesty is important in a marriage as this is now the second time in a few days that you basically tell the one who has been lied to the being upset about it is over the top. 

I will ask again when is it OK to lie or deliberately mislead and keep secrets from your spouse in marriage?

Another thing character doesn't often change without work. This shows some poor character.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

sokillme said:


> Are you religious and you both said you were obtaining but she didn't?


I think you mean abstaining otherwise he was getting it too.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

stixx said:


> I think you mean abstaining otherwise he was getting it too.


Stupid spell check, fixed it.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

Wow everyone!! thank you for the awesome replies!!!!

I see that I could have been clearer with my writing. I didn't think our respective pasts mattered. I only needed to look at my own progress on my path. We live, we soar, we fall, we grow, we become who we are. We live to tell....

But it did matter to her. Which, to be brutally objective, is somewhat ironic given that she was the one who held out.

1. "The playful jokes were invitations from him to be honest if I am reading right (and OP can clarify)"....

The playful 'jokes' were really lighthearted responses to her subsequent sharing. Reminiscing about days gone by and eventually this stuff comes up. Whatever. Rather than stigmatize the past (stories of her partying with friends, or having one too many drinks, sneaking into bars, - kid stuff) I would listen and came to refer to these tales as 'hottie girl stories'. Aside from my wife, she is also my best friend...

2. "For whatever reason Mrs. OP felt guilty about her past to begin with and that may have been exacerbated by the OPs 2-year abstinence.

Wow keke! Spot on!! I think, and for the life of me, I don't know why this never ever occurred to me before, all those years ago she probably wasn't expecting to hear me say, "oh yeah, two years this fall," and was caught completely off guard by this. Subsequently thinking to herself that she needed to ballpark me without stopping to think, WTF, what is up with the monk lifestyle?

3."And all the little jokes about her trysts and her downplaying, that was supposed to make her feel comfortable sharing? OP's been making her feel guilty about stuff that shouldn't matter. "

keke again! yes. I mean well. I always do. Never meant to judge anyone, especially the love of my life (it was love at first sight) but sometimes my sardonic humor can get the better of me, or at least come across that way!

4. "I don't get why you not having sex when you were not committed is a big deal."

sokillme, I wasn't sure either. we are somewhat religious, but i thought that she was trying to gauge if I was gonna 'play her'...

5."Your reaction seems way over the top." - elegirl

Yes. I completely agree!! And. I. Am. Not. Sure. Why.... Yet

6. v13 - thank you!!! i think that beyond the surprise (shock) at hearing me say "almost 2 years", what I did not share at that time was the why i was on the hiatus. You are right! But what I did not say at that time was that the reason why benched myself was in part because i working on myself, partially stemming from the csa. I had come out of a relation that made the Death Star explosion look like a puff of smoke and along the way i realized that i had to work on myself.


Again, thank you so much everyone for your thoughts!!! You guys are AWESOME - way way better than therapy!!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> The interrogating about the ONS stands out to me. Spouses who are guilty of lying/infidelity in a relationship are usually paranoid that the other spouse is doing the same. It's called _projection_. I wonder if that is not why she interrogated you about the ONS. Maybe she is not telling you the whole truth about her last sexual encounter being only 5 months before you started dating.


After reading these stories for about a year you see a pattern. This is right where my mind would go.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Once again blaming the victim, so he made jokes so it's OK that she lied to him? He said he didn't care and she was the one who pushed for disclosure just to lie to him. She could have told him right there but then she would have lost the upper hand. An upper hand that he didn't even care about. He has a right to be upset about that.
> 
> I think she was being honest because she knew she would come off as at least a jerk for pushing him and then lying. Once again another person that has a lie of omission and then is upset when their spouse gets upset that they were keeping secrets.
> 
> ...


I've revised my stance. See post #10. You are right, this whole issue started because she lied about a non-issue.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

Yeah. I almost forgot. We, two weeks before she last saw the ex. I drove her home and spent the night at her place. Again, I had this promise to myself to abstain for an extended period of time which cut through the nights we spent at her place. She did NOT know about my commitment at the time and I was not comfortable sharing that with anyone.

Nothing physical happened, but there was chemistry - alot of it. I was so caught up memorized by her that it never dawned on me that a part of her felt seriously rejected by my lack of 'trying'. At the same time, I could see that she was ambivalent about sleeping with me because there was no commitment between us (she is not a fan of hook ups - as far i can tell). Ever see Vanilla Sky? The part when Cruise's and Cruz's go back to her place after his party. Nothing physical happens, but it is clear that they destined for love. 




Over the years, revisionism kicked in and I came to view that night as the start of our relationship. So her revelation kinda mucked that up.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

"Maybe she is not telling you the whole truth about her last sexual encounter being only 5 months before you started dating."

Maybe. YIKES! That would be not good. But I highly doubt it.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

Vinnydee said:


> Did you actually abstain from sex for 2 years? I never met an adult that did that. That fact tells all about your views on sex which some would call old fashioned and I would know because I am old.  All kidding aside, your won dude, not worry, be happy.


Thanks! Yeah. Crazy. I keep coming back to this and that I was not honest about that with her (but how weird would that have been to try to explain that one). My motives were not as lofty as you give me credit, though. Self imposed break to work on myself unencumbered by complication. And I am happy. I just for the life of me could not figure out why the ensuing panic attack....

Thanks again!!!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Look I think the bottom line is you should talk to her about not being truthful with you and see where the talk goes. It's important to be honest in a marriage. If she shuts that down then that is not a good sign. Make sure she knows you don't care about the hookup when you were not even committed, it is the lying that is an issue.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

james5588 said:


> yesterday, my wife revealed to me that she slept with her ex 4 months before she and I officially became a couple...
> 
> .....A year later, she confessed, that 5 mos before we started dating, to having blacked out when a guy friend walked her home and to this day can't remember details but is certain they had sex.
> 
> ...





> Again, thank you so much everyone for your thoughts!!! You guys are AWESOME - way way better than therapy!!


I have a slightly different take on the whole thing. 

(1) You are in a long term committed relationship that you value.

(2) You are upset (to the point of taking drugs to calm a panic attack) about something that happened before you and your wife were a committed couple. 

(3) Your wife has been dribbling out the truth of her past in small doses, probably because she values your relationship and is afraid that blurting it all out at the beginning might have put your relationship at risk.

(4) You mentally or intellectually (but not emotionally because of panic attack) understand that "sexual things" that happened prior to your becoming a committed couple are things you should not hold against your wife.

(5) You had child sexual abuse issues and part of your self-imposed healing process was to take a temporary vow of chastity prior to becoming fully committed to the woman who became your wife.

OK, with that over with, you both have some sexual history issues that cause both of you discomfort. You can rationalize them away from your mind, but they still eat at you (plural). You probably have CSA issues that you haven't fully been able to resolve.

My suggestion is to get some professional counseling. I would normally suggest a marriage counselor, but because of the CSA, I would suggest a sex therapist. Seriously, if you have panic attacks about something your wife tells you, you need some professional help. You wife needs to better understand the dynamics of what she triggered in her confession to you that caused you to have a panic attack. I think that for both of you need to figure that out, and to accomplish that you will need a third party.
*
So in conclusion, a forum like this is good to use as a sounding board, but it is no substitute for real therapy.
*

Good luck to you.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> Well, I'm not sure what to say here.
> 
> It happened before you two became an official couple. So I'm not sure why it matters. Yea, she said she disclosed and wanted you to disclose. She kept this one bit of info back because she had trouble handling it apparently.
> 
> Your reaction seems way over the top.


I disagree. Not vehemently, mind you!

From my POV, her lack of full disclsure instills a tiny amount of lack of trust.

Yes, this was all before they got together. But she was just as adamant at the start that he disclose his past history with her (and even gave him the 2nd degree). He disclosed all and left nothing out. She did.

Even that early on in the relationship, he trusted her enough to give his complete history, at her urging, and prompted by 20 questions. She did not return this favour, and left something out.

It's not so much him feeling retroactively jealous as it is him having thought they started their relationship 17 years ago based on full disclosure - something _she_ wanted, yet hypocritically did not provide him.

Now, all these years later, he's likely wondering what else she may have left out. Even if that was the only thing, he'll never know for sure.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Young at Heart said:


> (2) You are upset (to the point of taking drugs to calm a panic attack) about something that happened before you and your wife were a committed couple.


This is the sticking point to me, and it echoes in my own past, as well.

The thing is, OP views/viewed the actual start of the relationship as being before she last slept with her ex. He's held on to this for 17 years, and it turns out that she did not view this particular day/time as the start.

That's not her fault, of course, but it's a revision of his history, nonetheless.

But everybody in a relationship has a "start date" in their minds. That one day that it became official, or you knew you loved them. Sometimes these dates don't match up with your partners... and that can suck. I had the same thing happen with my ex wife, though it didn't take 17 years to revise history (more like a month).

Hell even my current wife and I fell in love with each other at different times. She was probably a few months behind me. We were most definitely exclusive throughout it all, but I started to view our relationship as being serious earlier than she did. Not that she treated it as casual, just that it was one day at a time for a while.

In retrospect, my ex wife and I were definitely casual at the beginning, I give her that. I knew I wanted to be with her exclusively pretty much right away, but I didn't articulate that - until I did. And then she let me know she was also seeing somebody else. I didn't like it, but fair enough. At least she told me the second I made the move to make us exclusive. And she chose me, and broke it off with the other guy that same day.

But up until that point, in my own mind, my relationship with her started before all of this. A quick revision was all that was needed, and no big deal. That said, for the decade and a half that we were together, every time I looked back on when/where/how we met and started our relationship, this guy was part of it. I never held it against her, but it obviously ruined the romantic notion of it all. :|

But imagine if this lasted 17 years, and my (now) ex wife told me that much later on that she was seeing some other guy (or slept with someone once) during the first month or so we were seeing each other. In her mind, our relationship didn't officially start until whatever day, and that's fair enough. She wouldn't be wrong, IMO. I've never been a fan of multi-dating, but some people swear by it. It's the romantic side of me that wants to recall the beginning of a relationship as not including somebody else! Even if it's fair game, and nobody technically did anything wrong, it does still put a damper on one's memories of events, should two people end up marrying and living a long life with one another.

And even better, imagine that my ex wife insisted I disclose my own personal dating/sexual history, to which I told her everything. Yet she neglected to mention this particular instance for 17 years? Or any period of time, really.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I think as always with those things it's a about honesty here. There was something she didn't tell him and this snowballs into paranoia in his head what else she might not be telling him (even the fact that she didn't tell him everything is already enough to question why she is hiding stuff). On the face of it, yes, it's an overreaction but these things are a chain reaction.
I would probably feel the same (more the fact that I would second guess the reasons why on earth would she go through the trouble of withholding insignificant information like this). Maybe it's a guy insecurity thing.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

EunuchMonk said:


> OP, I personally understand your reaction. This deceit understandably makes you feel insecure about your relationship because such deceit always begs the question, "what else is she lying about?" The interrogating about the ONS stands out to me. Spouses who are guilty of lying/infidelity in a relationship are usually paranoid that the other spouse is doing the same. It's called _projection_. I wonder if that is not why she interrogated you about the ONS. Maybe she is not telling you the whole truth about her last sexual encounter being only 5 months before you started dating.
> 
> If you two had agreed that you did not want to delve into each other's past relationships I would understand the leave-the-past-alone sentiment expressed here. From reading your post, I don't think that was the case since you told her about your CSA and all. You agreed on telling each other about that. If she didn't want to tell you about hers she should have said so instead of lying. If she thinks you will be judgemental then that points to a fundamental distrust towards you. And if she deosn't trust you to be mature about it, why is she getting into a relationship with you? Like it or not, a persons past is part of who they are. Sometimes we are ashamed of what we have done. True. But I don't agree with keeping someone in the dark about it who truly wants to know. If you don't want to tell, say so. The two of you can decide if the relationship should continue. _"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" Amos 3:3_
> 
> ...


I can understand this way of thinking. It's really not the act that is the issue, it's when it was brought up that it. Trust is one of the most important things in a marriage and if you can't trust what your wife says and have to worry constantly about small revisions to the story she originally gave, that begins to be more and more of a problem. You wondering what the real story is or if the story she told was indeed true.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

WorkingWife said:


> What would disturb me were I in your shoes, is that she pushed for a conversation disclosing all then lied to you during the conversation she wanted to have. That's what would really freak me out and make me question everything she's said and done all the time you've been together and, yes, pop a xanax!
> 
> The fact that she slept with him 4 months (or whenever) before you were a couple is, like, so what? But the fact that she brought the subject up and then lied about it? That's just really weird. And concerning.


This.

This is something that had me scratching my head.

Why lie?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Well, I'm not sure what to say here.
> 
> It happened before you two became an official couple. So I'm not sure why it matters. Yea, she said she disclosed and wanted you to disclose. She kept this one bit of info back because she had trouble handling it apparently.
> 
> Your reaction seems way over the top.


Well I think he's reacting to the fact that she's lying sack. 

She's also cruel and manipulative. 

Why come out and blurt this out and tell him this, after all this time, for any other reason other than to be a mean-ass witch? Why? What is her agenda? Or is she really just a thoughtless, vacuous moron?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

james5588 said:


> "Maybe she is not telling you the whole truth about her last sexual encounter being only 5 months before you started dating."
> 
> Maybe. YIKES! That would be not good. But I highly doubt it.


At this point she has lied so much that, even if she does tell him the truth, how can he tell if it's not more lying?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

snerg said:


> This.
> 
> This is something that had me scratching my head.
> 
> Why lie?


Yeah. It is perplexing. If he brought the subject up, I would see why she would lie. But I don't understand why she would demand the conversation and then lie. It's troubling.

My best guess is she was feeling insecure about his past or affection for old flames and wanted to be reassured, but didn't want to come clean about her own. Or maybe she didn't know he'd been so long - 2 years - and thought "OH CRAP! Now I'm going to sound like a wanton **** if I tell the truth."

But there are some darker reasons I can come up with too, like she wanted honesty from him and never intended on giving it herself and she's been lying about all kinds of things their entire marriage...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@james5588, 

I understand your reaction, and in my personal opinion it's completely reasonable. As I understand it, all this happened 17+ years ago BEFORE you were a couple--so it's not marital adultery or infidelity in a "committed relationship." But what it IS, is dishonesty that has been going on for a long time. 

Now, I do understand that she may have heard that you abstained from sex for two years and thought that you would judge her if she also had not abstained. I mean, it's reasonable for her to be afraid of that. But in reality, you made a decision about her and maybe even had feelings for her based on a false foundation. You were denied the opportunity to make an INFORMED decision! And to add insult to injury, at any time while dating or after all these years, as she knew you more deeply, she could have chosen to tell you about this honestly ON HER OWN, but instead she purposefully hid it. That is what is upsetting you now. 

For her, all this happened 17+ years ago and she's known about it all this time--so for her it is "in the past." FOR YOU, all this happened yesterday because you did not know about it until yesterday--so for you it is "in the present." 

It is conceivable that if you had had all the fact 17+ years ago, that your opinion of her may not have been the same. If you had been fully informed, you may have chosen to "not be with her" due to her lack of sexual self-control. The point is not "whether she is a **** for having slept with a guy" or not 17+ years ago. The point is that you were never given the chance TO CHOOSE whether you did or did not want that kind of person in your life with full information!!

Now for all we know, at the time you have have said "Hey it's cool. I didn't expect you to be the virgin Mary. You're a beautiful, sexual woman. I'm okay with a couple partners." But what if you found out she'd had 20 partners...or 50? What if she's been covering THAT up all this time? What she may not understand is that by covering up that one thing all this time, it makes you WONDER ABOUT all the things she's said to you up until today! Were those all lies too? How can you tell? She's willing to cover THAT up--maybe there's more she's willing to cover up.

So that is what upsets you, and it is not unreasonable for you to be somewhat upset. You were robbed of the opportunity to make a fully informed decision about your life, and you continued to be robbed for 17 years. That's not "okay with you." SHE had all the pieces of the puzzle and saw the picture the pieces all painted of her, so she withheld some of the pieces from you to paint a different picture. She has knows the picture all along--YOU just discovered the true picture!

In conclusion, I think it's reasonable for you to be upset, but I'm not positive it's something to break up the marriage over, and here's why. 17 years ago, when she was young and stupid, she made a stupid choice. She continued to "back up" her stupid decision rather than coming clean. But over the years, she did demonstrate by her actions that she has qualities and character that you like. Until you knew about this hidden puzzle piece, you liked the person/woman she is and her actions for 17 years were loving, kind, faithful...whatever. Thus, even though it is reasonable for you to be upset, and even though this is a dishonesty, there are also 17 years of demonstrated actions too. I think this is a dishonesty that COULD be dealt with if she is willing to admit she was wrong initially AND over the course of the years to keep it from you...and then willing to spend some time now to rebuild trust and that the 17 years of actions were trustworthy. For example, spend the next year being consistent with the 17 years and not with the lie in the past, and it will reinforce the 17 years, not the lie. 

Make sense?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I think you had a panic attack because your subconscious has realized that you are getting the mother of all trickle truths. My guess is that in another 5 or 10 or 20 or 50 years she's going to admit that she cheated on you at some point. Depends how many more little tidbits she's been keeping to herself, that will just pop out of her mouth one of these days.


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## theDrifter (Mar 20, 2017)

There's no right or wrong with emotions. Those who say that since you weren't officially committed you shouldn't feel this way are not really wrong, they are just being overly simplistic. I think they mean you should look at the this event rationally in an attempt to ease your emotional reaction. I'm sure you will but it might take some time for your logical mind to convince your emotional mind to chill.

As for the why you reacted this way, you said it very clearly. It's the visualization of her screwing him in the bed you two shared. All of a sudden that bed and that apartment and maybe lots of other things are not quite as special as they were. The story of your early life together just changed. That is a real loss and truly a threat to your personal history with your wife. Scary stuff to hit you all of a sudden. I'm sure you will work through all of this and the panic & anxiety brought on by this will go away.

At some point you may want to stop playing these "reveal" kind of games with your wife. Don't ask, don't tell is a wonderful policy when it comes to the lovers you both had before you became a committed couple.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

theDrifter said:


> At some point you may want to stop playing these "reveal" kind of games with your wife. Don't ask, don't tell is a wonderful policy when it comes to the lovers you both had before you became a committed couple.


I woke up and felt crappy. My stupid mind went immediately went to that image of her, alone and then alone but with him. It really stung. It really hurt. I had no intention of thinking about this stuff ever again, but sometimes the human psyche just plain sucks. This time, I can blame the grogginess of the morning. As my mind went to her (she was already up, her side of the bed was cold, she must have been up for sometime – hopefully not upset) and then back to my thoughts, I let myself feel what she must have felt that summer, how she was hurting, and realized that I am hurting over the realization of how badly I added to her pain. At the time, I thought that I was doing the right thing by not sleeping with her. I thought I was showing her that she was so much more than just sex. I thought I was merely staying true to my committment to healing and ultimately my decision to abstain.

I thought I was doing right but I now see that she felt utterly rejected worse than if we had hooked up, worse than had I played her. My actions, or lack thereof, conveyed to her that she wasn't worthy for me to literally give. a. kcuf. I can't believe that I am realizing this just now. I am sorry that I made her feel that way. I can't believe I never thought of that before...

You see, she was already in the midst of her own struggle and I guess I only added to her pain. Prior to any of this, she had gone through a horrible break-up (not my tale to tell). The kind that can truly destroy someone. She has shared with me bits and pieces over the years in a seemingly random and disjointed fashion. I just listen. Sometimes the story changes, dates, places, and even names are slightly different. But I blame that on how tricky our minds can be against life's backdrop. Yes, I know the phrase "trickle truth" is fashionable these days and may apply in some cases, but I think that the pasta sauce analogy is more applicable here (the tomato sauce heats up in the fine sauce pan, but not evenly. If not tended to just right and periodically stirred, the heat will eventually build up, boil to the top, and burst and splatters tiny shards of hot tomato shrapnel all over the stove top or even on your skin and the nice dress shirt you are wearing because you want to be a good husband and do something nice (make dinner) and be festive about it (hence the dress shirt and the light latin jazz playing the background). "Trickle truth" conveys this element of intent which implicitly convicts the sharer of deceit. That may be true in some instances. But I also think that life has its nefarious ways of triggering certain memories assigning a new significance to events which once seemed unimportant or even ridiculous. Please don't confuse the two...)

So, we had our "Vanilla Sky" nights together that summer. It was amazing: we ended up at an afterbar party, I offered to drive her home and on the way insisted that we stop and watch the sunrise. I convinced her to jump into the bay with me. Afterwards, I draped my coat over her shivering body and held her hand as we walked back to the car. We went back to her place got cleaned up, had a brief nap and then went out to brunch... In hindsight, over the years we retroactively assigned those nights (plural, the circumstances and stars aligned a second time about a month later) as 'the dawning of our love' (sorry if you don't the get the reference; sorrier if you do). At some point, we even started celebrating the day we met and so on and so forth. In doing so, we ended up padding our time together by about a year. Talk about revisionism! Worse still, I guess I took all that for granted. Maybe, in leaving the past in the past, I failed to acknowledge who she was before "us" or how she was struggling in the days when we were mere casual acquaintances. Even worse, she may not have felt as if she could open up to me about it. It's the past, right? None of it mattered. I was and am so in the present. So by the time this completely irrelevant and unnecessary bit of historical trivia boiled to the top, it upset me.

As I write this, I remember how early on in our marriage (years and years ago), she would have these nightmares that she couldn't find me, that she was trapped in her life before fate brought us together. Sometimes she would dream that it was our wedding day only to find an ex standing at the altar instead of me. She would wake up crying and be afraid to tell me about it. I would just do my best to comfort her. Just the other day she mentioned something in passing that we may have gotten married too soon. But then we immediately found ourselves in some crisis (I think our youngest son triggered some international act of war or something to that effect) and off we went, realizing that if we were any older our aging bodies would not be able to keep up with the demands of life. A few months ago, she muttered out loud that when we met, she thought she wasn't "marriage material". Maybe we weren't ready to be in a committed relationship. Maybe we had too many unresolved issues. Maybe we weren't aware ourselves of the severity of these issues. I can see that I am setting myself up for a litany of responses highlighting the dangers of bringing baggage into a marriage and the like [deep breath]...

That's crap. That would suggest that each and everyone of us is required and expected be a veritable tabula rasa and at peace with every single thing in our lives leading up to the moment of commitment. I think that, at least for me, it is the sacred and unconditional friendship in a marriage that enables us to ultimately achieve that peace. I know I have brought my fair share of life into our marriage that I was able to resolve because of, and only because of our marriage and her friendship. No therapist (and I have had some of the best), not even Freud himself, could have helped me find the strength, insight, and the peace that she can with a simple ear and compassionate hug. Plus, as much as I loved and appreciated her then, I like who she is even more now (she swears that she doesn't get this and swears that I am crazy as she holds up a picture of her younger self)...

I read and re-read every single one of your comments and want to thank you, sincerely!! Thank you!! You all had such wonderful insights. I felt that ton of bricks when I read 'drfters' comment because of how spot-on it is. Time has had its way with us: i am not who i was, our physiques are a far cry from what once was. She has felt like she has lost. Even though I tell her everyday how beautiful she is (make dinner, surprise her with flowers and candies, play her favorite João Gilberto songs and even recite Pablo Naruda to her in his native spanish), she feels like life has slipped us by. I think it started innocently enough, silly stories of who we were, first reminiscences as a couple which devolved into stories about us as individuals. I made a joke about how I once drove two hottie cheerleaders home, in my two seater sports car (anyone remember that scene in batman when bruce's friends go swimming in the fountain?). She'd make fun of me for being a has-been. I'd make fun of her for growing up over-protected and sheltered. I'd feign a genuine tension when she told me about something silly from her days (sometimes the tension was not so fake). I just wanted her to see that I was still putty in her hands. Aside from our general decline, she has been on medications that have eviscerated her libido and she absolutely hates it. We're living like celibate roommates but are passionately in love!!!! I remember as a kid the day I realized my parents sat on opposite ends of the sofa when watching TV. Dad with his smokes and mom in her red sweatsuit. Mom recently passed away and dad just now realizes what he had taken for granted for a lifetime. I think I was just desperate, trying to find someway to playfully show her that spark will always be there between us. 


I worked late last night and afterwards stopped off at some swanky bar and had a few. I expected her to be asleep when I got home, but she was up, waiting for me and playfully called me out on how much I spent and where. I told her that even though I didn't completely understand why I reacted the way I did and that it hurt more than I could have ever imagined, that he could be hiding in under our bed at that very moment and I would still adore her...

We talked. She shared with me that a few weeks after the "Vanilla Sky" night, her ex came to see her and asked her to leave with him to DC (dream job or something). Apparently, she told him about me and about us and how she was planning to move closer to me. He was furious. They ended up spending the night together. I didn't ask any questions.

There is a little more, but right now it doesn't seem important and i ahve already taken up way too much of your time.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

james5588 said:


> Thanks! Yeah. Crazy. I keep coming back to this and that I was not honest about that with her (but how weird would that have been to try to explain that one). My motives were not as lofty as you give me credit, though. Self imposed break to work on myself unencumbered by complication. And I am happy. I just for the life of me could not figure out why the ensuing panic attack....
> 
> Thanks again!!!


It seems like you have a really good relationship with your wife, so maybe this lack of full disclosure really just threw you off. I understand why you were upset, but she explained why, and it's not like she cheated on you. I'd have a different response, if she had come out telling you she cheated when you were dating. Anyway, don't let it ruin your good marriage.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

Talked about it and did not go as well as I had hoped...

She wanted to know why I was so upset and needed the xanax that day. I mentioned that I was hurt over the deceit and that it kinda rocked some of the beliefs I came to have about our early relationship (experiencing love at first sight, subsequent related conversations which occurred well into our marriage, and other oddities). I pointed out that my feelings had little to do with her choices as a single woman but rather with her double standard when it came to demanding disclosure and the subsequent lies to cover it up. I did want to mention that I also could not help but wonder what else is out there, but something told me to hold off on that one.

She became defensive, accused me of judging her, threw out something dumb I had done before she and I were together, and pointed out details of my cs abuse I recently shared with her. In the course of explaining what she branded an oversight, "I just forgot about it. It didn't mean anything", she gave me this well thought out argument about how early on she couldn't take any chances at jeopardizing our chances at a lasting relationship. That it was embarrassing to her. Did I have any idea how intimidating it was for her to become a part of my life. That it wasn't my business anyway. She did apologize. But it was for insisting I disclose all those years ago...

Aside from the contradictions, what broke my heart is that I also thought we were supposed to comfort each other. I would think that after all this time, she could have enough faith in me to see past stupid silly games from years ago, to see past her fears, and let me be the one to comfort her. All those years ago, I thought that the purpose of disclosing was to open-up to each other, to trust one another with each other, and just bare it all. I remember thinking it was different, but decided to trust and go with it. Instead, I now see that it was the exact opposite: it was a pat-down predicated on a lack of trust...

Again, heartbroken.

Then my head was flooded with memories of countless lies she has told me over the years which stem from this one omission. Stuff that she offered up unsolicited. Stuff that had nothing to do with anything except to propagate something which never even mattered in the first place. Stuff that didn't add up nor make sense but that I never bothered to question...

I made an appointment to see a respected therapist in town. I somehow managed to get a cancellation opening in 2.5 weeks. Otherwise, they are booking out to May around here. In the meantime, I will try to put this out of my head until then. Stay in the present. I don't see anything good from talking about it with her any further.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Don't try to argue logically with an emotionally armed person. They'll rationalize like crazy and bury you with words. Keep what you say to simple phases. "I'm not OK with that", etc.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

You are being weak. Your wife does not react well to weak. She is not unusual, many wives don't. You wish she could be your source of comfort when you are hurting. Sorry, she can't and won't. You did not marry that kind of woman. You are supposed to be her rock. She gets comfort from you, not the other way around. I don't think talking to her is going to help. I think, in fact, it will make things worse.

You need to act. I can't tell you what to do. You need to find a way to deal with your feelings. Maybe you need to run until you collapse in exhaustion. Maybe you need to go to the gym and hit the heavy bag until your knuckles are raw. Maybe you need to have lots of rough sex with her and "reclaim your territory". 

Maybe you need to go for some IC to work through your feelings. But your wife has made it clear she will not react well if you try to use her as your IC for this. So find another coping mechanism.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

james5588 said:


> ....Maybe we had too many unresolved issues.......
> 
> ......I think that, at least for me, it is the sacred and unconditional friendship in a marriage that enables us to ultimately achieve that peace....
> 
> ....No therapist (and I have had some of the best), not even Freud himself, could have helped me find the strength, insight, and the peace that she can with a simple ear and compassionate hug. Plus, as much as I loved and appreciated her then, I like who she is even more now (she swears that she doesn't get this and swears that I am crazy as she holds up a picture of her younger self)....


I would strongly suggest that perhaps you might want to read some of the books by David Schnarch. He views marriage as on of the hardest things that two people can do if done correctly. 

He basis this on the fact that two people constantly grow, mature and change over time and yet through marriage they are bound together. That means that they are constantly pushing and pulling at each other emotionally through the entire marriage. People should grow and mature with time and they do that at different rates that are not constant nor predictable.

To have a happy, passionate marriage requires one to be able to "self-soothe" their own fears to the point that they can interact with their spouse and try things that their spouse wants and needs that are outside of your own personal comfort zone. 

So rather than the unconditional friendship of your spouse it is developing your own coping mechanisms that allow you to overcome your own fears, which is the glue that helps hold your marriage together. That is just another perspective you might consider.

Good luck.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> You are being weak. Your wife does not react well to weak. She is not unusual, many wives don't. You wish she could be your source of comfort when you are hurting. Sorry, she can't and won't. You did not marry that kind of woman. You are supposed to be her rock. She gets comfort from you, not the other way around. I don't think talking to her is going to help. I think, in fact, it will make things worse.
> 
> You need to act. I can't tell you what to do. You need to find a way to deal with your feelings. Maybe you need to run until you collapse in exhaustion. Maybe you need to go to the gym and hit the heavy bag until your knuckles are raw. Maybe you need to have lots of rough sex with her and "reclaim your territory".
> 
> Maybe you need to go for some IC to work through your feelings. But your wife has made it clear she will not react well if you try to use her as your IC for this. So find another coping mechanism.


****!! I do sound whiny!! I am so much better than this in person. And yeah. Already did the things on your checklist (and then some). 

My problem is that when **** hits the fan, I become focused and go completely numb. She sees it too. Telling me how wonderful I am. Telling me how great of a husband I am, how much she loves me...

I go numb and my mind goes analytical: 

1. how after we first got married she used to go to the gym for 5 hours a day. got in awesome shape. then stopped, decided she hated living where we lived and so we moved 3 states over

2. that time she spent a week at her single sister's place in the coast

3. how she cut off ties with her friends from college after we started dating...

4. how her idiot dad casually mentioned twice the very ex in this narrative to me when we brought her parents to meet my parents and went out for dinner

5. there is that douchbag professor back when we were in college who if for some God forsaken reason comes up in conversion of the good ole days, she seems to have a little too much animosity towards

6. how those "long time no see" emails ex sent her (10 years ago) apparently now were "i'm in town, we should get together" crap

And I don't feel a thing right now. Crazy part is that my 'problems' feel dumb and more akin to paranoia. College sophomores seem to do a better job of handling such lies than me at the present. Pathetic when I find myself connecting with 'sig eps' while people here are dealing with serious life changing stuff...

So yeah, lots of long hard runs in the rain with NIN mp3's on a continuous loop.

-Withdrawn and regressing


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I would be pissed about the lies.

I'm pretty hard core and if I fell in love, wouldn't allow a woman's past to interfere with our future as long as she had left everything in her past and was loyal 100% to me.

She could have been a pornstar, prostitute or college gang bang queen as long as she was done being that person and, here is the sticking point, ABSOLUTELY HONEST AND TRUTHFUL!

What gets me about your wife is that she is a liar and manipulator.

She lied to you because she wanted to manipulate your opinion of her so you would stay with her.

That speaks to character traits that I find cheap and u unattractive.

You thought she was honest with you for 17 years and have now found out she was something other than what you have grown to trust.

It would shake me up too.

Better late than never.... I guess...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

james5588 said:


> ****!! I do sound whiny!! I am so much better than this in person. And yeah. Already did the things on your checklist (and then some).
> 
> My problem is that when **** hits the fan, I become focused and go completely numb. She sees it too. Telling me how wonderful I am. Telling me how great of a husband I am, how much she loves me...
> 
> ...


This post is one of your' more "revealing" ones.

You have doubts about her, she has doubts about you. This is pure mid-life crisis....stuff.

Her telling you....*out of the blue?*....about her sexual exploits before marriage?

She is sabotaging the marriage. She is blurting out things...for what reason?

She has resentment for you. Big resentment. Saying that her medicine is the cause for her lowered libido? This is a lie. Yes, she feels some guilt over her lack of interest in sex. 

She is repressing her true feelings of resentment of you. She wishes her life were different.

Her biggest "unspoken" reason for her resentment and feelings of despair?

The fact that you are low desire. From the get-go she wanted a physically passionate man. She wanted a lustful husband.

Not a man who abstained for two years. The is the area where you are most incompatible. She is a Latin romantic. Hot, lusty, desirous of a man who can dominate her sensual side.

The fact that she stuck with you, did not leave you, shows that you have other qualities that she likes. 

Again, this is a compatibility issues between you two. 

She stopped working out and looking good early in your marriage because she was had given up on you being a that man who would appreciate her beautiful body. She wanted to be sexually taken. She still does. She saw the looks and reactions that she got from other men...when she was fit and hot. But she knew that to act on those desires of being taken [and passionately made love to] would kill her marriage. She gave up. She gave up on you changing. She started to resent you and started to resent her choice in husbands.

The Vanilla Sky led to vanilla sex and she has hated it ever since. She is a passionate lady. Very much into passionate and spontaneous love making.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

SunC, I think the opposite could be true, too. OP has a history of CSA, which makes him dysfunctional in some ways. That's not a slam. We are all dysfunctional in some way, and this is part of his. People tend to pair up with someone of similar level of dysfunction, though the dysfunctions may be quite different. In a reverse scenario we see the Nice Guy pair up with the woman CSA victim. That's what I did.

Why would Mrs. J5588 pair up with him? They had a very asexual beginning to their relationship. This is an unusual pairing for a sexually active woman. Furthermore, J5588 tells us she says she thought she was not marriage material at the time. That shows a low self esteem. I think there is a lot more there with the wife than we know of. And I think resentment isn't part of what is going on. At least not about their sex life. She knew she wasn't marrying a high drive womanizer.

Before I add more, I'll put in here that the events she has told about concerning her sexual history prior to their romantic relationship are inconsequential. She had a ONS with her exBF prior to the romantic relationship but not as many months prior as she originally stated. That is not something which should be triggering in terms of the sex. She had revealed the relationship with exBF already.

The apparent lie is important. And why would she have lied about it? Those things really are not a big deal she lied about. I think this indicates some kind of dysfunction in her. Her misrepresentation of her past has been a continuous habit. Yet it seems contradictory that she would intermittently blurt out information about her past sexual relationships during the marriage. That can be a pretty callous thing to do.

Something just doesn't add up to me with this. I don't think her behavior is a contempt for OP. My xw did a lot of the same things Mrs J5588 has done. It makes me uncomfortable for some reason. It turns out I was justified in wondering "what else don't I know about", but in OP's case I'm not sure that is so. Regardless, she is showing deceptive behavior about her past, and always has. I think she has some dysfunction going on, for whatever unknown reason. It has and is causing marital problems.

To me this is something needing professional MC. OP doesn't need to "just get over it", at least not the apparent deceptions. As far as his wife's prior history, that isn't something to obsess over. He already knew about the general facts. I can understand some discomfort learning additional facts. There's something deeper, though, which needs to be talked out. Her behavior shows some dysfunctional thought processes.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Once you realize your spouse never found you attractive, but married you for other reasons, it hurts.

Over time, the "other reasons" may fade. The kids grow up and move out so being a good co-parent is not as important. Career progress stalls and you aren't earning as much as they expected. Whatever. This tends to trigger resentment that they are married to someone they don't find attractive and they are not getting enough other benefits to make the "trade" worth it.

Or, as @SunCMars said, they get to mid-life and realize "wait, I am never going to be married to someone I am hot for? I am never going to have hot sweaty passionate sex with my spouse?"

For past generations, once you got the last kid out of the house, life expectancy was short enough that it wasn't worth divorcing. Now, with 30 years to live after the kids leave home, there is plenty of time for another relationship and the thought of spending decades with someone you aren't hot for seems like endless torture.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I think you guys need some marriage counseling. Maybe she doesn't get how she hurt you or worse she doesn't care. I think a third party that can help you communicate can help you.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

what i find most interesting is that there seems to be this belief that if one of the partners holds back information for decades (or there about) and then finally tells the truth that it should not be a big deal because it happen in the past, so long ago that it should not matter except for the fact that the spouse holding the secret feels a weight off their shoulders and the person hearing the truth for the first time should just suck it up. That argument does not fly with me, and certainly it should not with the person who has to live with this fresh bit of news. In essence what it does display is that the holder of the secret is a weasel plain and simple and on both counts, first for holding back the information and second for expecting nothing to change...a weasel is a weasel, and speaks volumes about their character...and if you feel that is not the case i invite you to plead your counter argument.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lostinthought61 said:


> what i find most interesting is that there seems to be this belief that if one of the partners holds back information for decades (or there about) and then finally tells the truth that it should not be a big deal because it happen in the past, so long ago that it should not matter except for the fact that the spouse holding the secret feels a weight off their shoulders and the person hearing the truth for the first time should just suck it up. That argument does not fly with me, and certainly it should not with the person who has to live with this fresh bit of news. In essence what it does display is that the holder of the secret is a weasel plain and simple and on both counts, first for holding back the information and second for expecting nothing to change...a weasel is a weasel, and speaks volumes about their character...and if you feel that is not the case i invite you to plead your counter argument.


Plus how many lies do you have to tell in those years to keep the secret. The longer the secret is kept the more chances for lies.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

The past is the past. I get that to some it matters. It is a glimpse into someone's character and even a sample of who they will be later in life. A part of me even admits that there may even be some truth to this - in some cases where people are unable to evolve or refuse to change or even adapt. Yeah, who they were is who they will always be. 

But here's the kicker. You can't really know this upfront. You get to this only after you have invested some serious time with someone. 

So me personally, this ordeal just re-validated for me that I have always been one those guys who doesn't care about a person's past even in the most general sense, because I fundamentally believe in person's ability to grow/evolve/adapt/change... Get too caught up in being rigid or afraid about someone's past, and you might miss the best thing to ever happen to you (and this assuming that a person's past is objectively "wrong" in the first place which is not always the case).

People can change. Most people do. So, to my way of seeing the world, the past can be pretty meaningless almost like reading a very detailed book about someone else altogether. 

And that is why this is pissing me off so ****ing much: now all of a sudden and without warning, all that stupid crap that never mattered before, that I never worried about (even embraced to a certain extent), that I initially didn't even think to think about because that is just not how i am wired, is a perfect way to measure this large pile of little lies sitting under my bed all along. So now in that sense, the stupid past-matters-because-it-tells-me-about-you suddenly IS the right answer here not because of what silly past actions say about her, but what the extent of her deceit can tell me about the truth - our truth dating back to day 1, 17 effing years ago...


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## dutiful (Apr 1, 2017)

james5588,

I find your insight and keyboard calmness inspiring and reassuring. I am going through something with my wife that has similar circumstances and I wanted you to know, a brother from another mother is sending you love where ever you are on planet earth


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

james5588 said:


> And that is why this is pissing me off so ****ing much: now all of a sudden and without warning, all that stupid crap that never mattered before, that I never worried about (even embraced to a certain extent), that I initially didn't even think to think about because that is just not how i am wired, is a perfect way to measure this large pile of little lies sitting under my bed all along. So now in that sense, the stupid past-matters-because-it-tells-me-about-you suddenly IS the right answer here not because of what silly past actions say about her, but what the extent of her deceit can tell me about the truth - our truth dating back to day 1, 17 effing years ago...


Have you asked her WHY she brought the subject up all those years ago and then WHY she lied about it? What did she say?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Well I think he's reacting to the fact that she's lying sack.
> 
> She's also cruel and manipulative.
> 
> Why come out and blurt this out and tell him this, after all this time, for any other reason other than to be a mean-ass witch? Why? What is her agenda? Or is she really just a thoughtless, *vacuous moron?*


Vacuous moron.

Good choice of words............... Buster!

In some people and in our brain chemistry there are forces [mental prods, mental pitch forks] that impel us to blurt out the most inappropriate babble.

Unconscious thoughts that burst out of the brains gray-peat-bog and jab another fellow traveler, within earshot.

Tourettes Syndrome light. Petite Mal-practice.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

@james5588


> Over the years she has made unsolicited little comments determined to down play her past. Again, I know her and I understand human nature well enough to see through it, but being absolutely in love with her, I always played along.


I suspect "your" words [spoken at that moment] triggered her to say these things. Your words, or maybe hearing something on the TV or radio, a picture, billboard. She is likely an imaginative women, lives in a mild haze or fantasy, thinks about sex a lot, and is now, readily triggered. Hormonally charged, she is. The lady has a hair trigger. A curly hair trigger!


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

dutiful said:


> james5588,
> 
> I find your insight and keyboard calmness inspiring and reassuring. I am going through something with my wife that has similar circumstances and I wanted you to know, a brother from another mother is sending you love where ever you are on planet earth


Fight the good fight / shoulder to shoulder!!!!




WorkingWife said:


> Have you asked her WHY she brought the subject up all those years ago and then WHY she lied about it? What did she say?


I did in fact. She had a lot to say about it...

She brought it up because she wanted a shortcut to knowing what kind of a man I am (my comment earlier about... “But here's the kicker... You get to this only after you have invested some serious time with someone.” was dead on.) She didn't want to wait but she didn't want to let me pass her by and she also didn't want to be vulnerable either. So she thought that a good measure of character was to (oh the effing irony).... ask about my past.

But yet again everything is context... I remember thinking it was a bit odd, but I absolutely adored how fearless and forward she was about it. I could see that she had strong feelings for me and yet also scared of getting hurt. I later found out that she had casually asked my friend about me. I guess he told her that I was still in love with my soon to be ex (divorcing) and was it was a matter of time before I worked things out with her and that in the meantime, I was having fun. Also found out that he himself had a huge crush on her through out all of this and made his intent to date her very clear to her. Long before me, he tried to kiss her (I can't believe I am even mentioning this). She immediately put him in the 'friend' pile. Whether or not he actually believed what he told her or not, I will never know and I never really cared.

I saw her 'inquiry' as an opportunity for a confessional of sorts: nothing to hide translates into nothing to fear. I was by no means perfect: I had been married (technically still married at the time) and had a past of my own... But when she asked, I quickly decided it was a chance to open up to her and put myself out there for her. She initially saw it as a valid frisk. The other part was that I had been dealing with issues stemming from CSA which I felt must have contributed to my failed 'marriage' (fyi – it didn't). So I wanted a to be sure of myself before going back out there again...

Writing this (going back there, thinking about those days, my fears, my hopes...) made me realize something that never even occurred to me before:

The fact that my answer was “2 years” was totally consistent with the belief that I was trying to reconcile with my ex... that I was biding my time. Now my friend telling her I was just “having fun” would lead one to conclude that I would play her; add to that my answer (“2 years”), and yeah, I can see why someone would think to themselves “he really is waiting to get back with his ex”.

I never ever realized this before...

kcuf, I had more red flags on me than a construction site. I accepted that I was not the typical guy on the scene, but to see it from the other side really changes things.

I can see that the “smart” thing for her would have been to not take the chance and walk away....

But INSTEAD, she saw my answer as a tell tale of self-control, discipline, and virtue. Kinda funny really. For those in the “don't judge” camp, it's clear you can misjudge someone down for their past, but this shows that it's possible to mis-judge someone “up”. Just the other day, I did something that she thought was pretty cool and she lamented that she was envious of my self-discipline. I've also been keeping a rant list (not so much a journal, but just a list of phrases that trigger intense thoughts and feelings) and realized that I jotted down “admires my focus” a few days ago. So yeah, this is really making much more sense.

So she saw my answer as a tell tale of some type of 'superior' person. This is where the conversation goes beyond messed up... She had me on a pedestal, even before this, and that answer sealed it for her and hit that spot that still clung to the idea that pre-marital is bad. When she was a kid, her folks found out her older sister had sex. Rather than the nice talk that good dads will give about “we love you”, “were you safe”, “please take good care of yourself”, 

her
dad
completely
tore
them
down

Mind you, it was her sister, not even her. Long story short, my answer triggered her dad's messed up view that only good people don't have sex outside of marriage (even failed marriages count I guess), that she wanted me to admire her the way she had been raised to admire me; finally how, by this crazy line of thinking, I could enjoy myself while not destroy myself.

In that split second she had to respond, she thought of all this and panicked.

This was why she brought it up only to feel like she had to lie all those years ago.

Just this morning, she woke up very upset. She had a nightmare. When I asked her if she wanted to talk about it she said that it would only make me mad...

I felt like the biggest loser. 

At this point I see that although this is great, the important questions are “why propagate the lie all this time / why not just come clean years ago” (this one seems kinda obvious though), and then the big one that is literally keeping me up at night “what else is there / what else have you lied (omitted) to me about?”. At one point, she even asked me point blank what would I like to know. I stalled. I was totally not prepared for that. But by now, I think I have thought this one through: read other's stories here, read more Cosmo thatn any guy should subject himself to in 5 lifetimes, even reread the sun also rises (did I mention I am not sleeping much). The answer to that second question is beyond crazy... Because the real issue isn't “what will she say”, it's “how will I respond”. I realized my head is subconsciously playing through all these insane scenarios and then coming up with what seems like the correct hypothetical response – like how the military has planned responses and contingencies for every eventuality out there, but this is all happening in my head.

And I think that is why I had that panic attack. I was trying to process and pre-emptively prepare for every variation and nuance of the unknown (what if this lie is just the tip, what if she has cheated, what if she wanted to cheat but didn't, can i even afford a good lawyer, can i forgive her for [enter action here], would it be pathetic of me to do so, do i hunt the sob down and kick some ass, what about the children, will i ever trust her again if it turns out that she actually [enter possible action here], am I onw of those guys who is supposed to double or triple her stated number to better approx the truth, and it goes on and on...)...

That aside, I now see that just because I may be ready to hear the whole truth, that does not mean that she is ready to share it or even ought to...

Do I even have the right to ask? Is it even advisable?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Her dad may have gone after her sister and not her, but she witnessed it and processed it. Sometimes I think the impact may be stronger on the sibling than the child in the middle of the storm.

I would ask yourself this: If none of this had come up, how is your marriage today? If you feel like it is solid and your love for each other is strong *today*, then I would ask youself - do you want to know the *whole *truth, or maybe, can you handle knowing the whole truth, understanding whatever happened or didn't happen, happened long ago and you have both grown and evolved since then. If she tells you the worst possible thing - she did cheat on you long ago and it kills her - would you be able/willing to take that in and love her for who she is today, who the two of you are today, warts and all. Or would it ruin everything for you?

If you decide you can honestly take that in/on, you might tell her that you love her no matter what for who you are today and you don't want secrets between you. If she has a lingering secret, you may end up much closer if you let her unburden herself safely.

If you can't accept "the worst" (she cheated) but you want to be together, you might tell her that as far as you are concerned, the past is a clean slate for both of you (if you can do that) and she has a free pass, no matter what she did back then, but you you don't want to be subjected to hearing about it. That's only if you honestly feel that way.

I'm sorry, it's been awhile since I read your whole thread, but if you are not concerned about her cheating or her honesty with you *today*, I personally would not blow up my life and marriage over something she may have done before you were even really a couple. 

You also might ask yourself why she is afraid to tell you what she dreamed. There are different opinions on how much to tell your spouse. There are some things I have learned that my spouse simply does not want to hear - like anything about my ex husband. He'd rather pretend he did not exist. So I try not to bring him up. On the other hand, there is something to be said for being a safe harbor for you spouse. If you spouse is afraid to tell you a thought or idea because "it will make you mad" - you might want to ask yourself how judgmental you are in general. That puts a wedge between you if she can't turn to you.

If you don't sense the deceit from years ago is part of a larger pattern, I would either become the person she can turn to or let sleeping dogs lie. If there is nothing nefarious going on today, no sense blowing your whole life up over something regrettable she may have done 20 years ago...








james5588 said:


> Fight the good fight / shoulder to shoulder!!!!
> 
> I did in fact. She had a lot to say about it...
> 
> ...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

james5588 said:


> That aside, I now see that just because I may be ready to hear the whole truth, that does not mean that she is ready to share it or even ought to...
> 
> Do I even have the right to ask? Is it even advisable?


That is something I struggled with. What I decided was that it wasn't the content which was so important (though it was somewhat important), the bigger goal was to re-establish a sense of being able to trust her. In order to do that I would need to know that there was nothing else out there I didn't know about. At least nothing which to me was potentially important. I needed to figure out what else she had lied about, minimized, or omitted. The antidote therefore was for her to give me full answers to all of my questions. Because of the nature of her old lies, I knew she was capable of committing deceptions to benefit her while being to my detriment. I wanted to believe she was no longer of that belief system.

Of course she never agreed to answer any uncomfortable questions. Instead she tried to shame me and avoid any such discussions. It became obvious that getting all the truth was not going to happen. She made a few undefinable statements and then shut off all further conversation on pain of divorce.

The content would be important as it would show just how much she had lied to me. I don't think there was anything which would have caused me to leave the marriage, but it was possible she'd reveal something that bad (harmed a child, etc). There was a risk of finding out something bad I would wish I didn't know. Certainly I might have ended up seeing her differently even though nothing terrible was there. However, I knew enough to know that the truth was not what I had been given, and the bits of the puzzle I'd found were enough to know I would not have married her had I known accurately about her past. Having the conversations would have been a test of her, too, proving she could prioritize the marriage over her own temporary discomfort.

As it turns out, her past did predict the marital problems and divorce.

So it is a balancing act for you. I think you need to ask about things so that you can feel secure that she is no longer willfully hiding things from you. You may need to feel that you know the real her, which means having some information. But there is no benefit to knowing things which may cause you distress yet not further the goals.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You're entitled to truth in your marriage from your spouse. Not lies. It's pretty simple. Like marriage 101. If you are questioning whether you are entitled to it then something is very off. If you are afraid to ask something is very off. If they shame you for wanting the truth when it concerns your relationship then they are abusing you. Again pretty simple.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

james5588 said:


> But INSTEAD, she saw my answer as a tell tale of self-control, discipline, and virtue. Kinda funny really. For those in the “don't judge” camp, it's clear you can misjudge someone down for their past, but this shows that it's possible to mis-judge someone “up”. Just the other day, I did something that she thought was pretty cool and she lamented that she was envious of my self-discipline. I've also been keeping a rant list (not so much a journal, but just a list of phrases that trigger intense thoughts and feelings) and realized that I jotted down “admires my focus” a few days ago. So yeah, this is really making much more sense.
> 
> So she saw my answer as a tell tale of some type of 'superior' person. This is where the conversation goes beyond messed up... She had me on a pedestal, even before this, and that answer sealed it for her and hit that spot that still clung to the idea that pre-marital is bad.


My wife did a very similar thing when we started dating, and for similar reasons, I believe.

I had been with the same person for nearly 14 years, single (and celibate) for a few months before I started seeing her, and really hadn't had any sex for 4-5 months at that point.

She had been out of an LTR for a while by that time, but she fudged the numbers a little bit, and said it had been a year (both since being in a relationship and having sex). Turned out it had been closer to 6 or 7 months (which is still a long time, lol!)

But the reality is, she started dating a guy (me) who had been with one person for 14 years. While she had been with numerous men over that same time frame. So she felt like she had to downplay her (perfectly normal, IMO) experiences as a way of more closely aligning with my experiences, even minutely. As we didn't know each other at this point as we do now, she could only assume I might look down on her for having more relationship and sex experience than I did.

Like you, I didn't care about stuff like this. I may have balked if she said she'd been with somebody in the past few weeks, but 6 months, a year? Same difference.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

sokillme said:


> Your entitled to truth in your marriage from your spouse. Not lies. It's pretty simple. Like marriage 101. If you are questioning whether you are entitled to it then something is very off. If you are afraid to ask something is very off. If they shame you for wanting the truth when it concerns your relationship then they are abusing you. Again pretty simple.


Very true.

But in situations like this (which don't seem to be uncommon), you have to put yourself in the other person's shoes, too.

At the very beginning of a relationship, you have no idea if it's going to result in an LTR or marriage. One person may actually have no intentions of this happening.

As OP said, his "friend" made it sound like he was just having a little fun and would be getting back with his now ex-wife. I have little doubt my now wife probably thought something similar of me, way back when. I doubt very much she, or OP's wife, thought they'd eventually be stuck with us for this long!

So two people enter into a relationship with very different views of how things will play out. I think most people would think this. Both OP and myself were literally in the middle of divorces at the time we started dating our now-wives. Not only that, but his friend specifically told OP's now wife that he was just having a little fun, post-divorce, and all that.

Lying is never truly justified, IMO, but for anybody who's had short relationships, or simply dated somebody for fun, you tend not to spill your entire life story and fill in every single little gap.

The one thing I did wrong with my wife is that I started asking these sorts of questions far too early in our relationship, before she was ready to answer. She was committed to me, and I to her, but I still had the spectre of my ex wife hanging around (quite literally, on occasion...). We were exclusive, and it was much more than just "having fun". Dating somebody while they're going through a divorce is difficult, I imagine. And FWIW, I hadn't had any dating experience in a loooong time, so I jumped the gun in some ways, before she was prepared. She was also out of a LTR where the guy was a jealous control freak and played 20 questions with her on a daily basis. I know now that I triggered her with my (I thought) normal questions.

It sucks that OP's wife took this long to tell the 'truth', but really, at what point would it have been appropriate, or even relevant, for her to have done so?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OP, detach a little so you can be stronger. Get yourself in a place where you now you will survive. You say in your other posts that she has lied about little stuff before. Maybe you should try some marriage counseling.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> bandit.45 said:
> 
> 
> > Well I think he's reacting to the fact that she's lying sack.
> ...


I know. And I agree with you, SunCMars. 

But at the same time, I would be a total *liar and hypocrite myself* if I refuse to admit that this sentiment resonates with a part of me.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

UPDATE:

So my wife pulled my aside the other day and confessed that she made it up, not so much a lie but more of an embellishment (what ever that means). She said that she had no idea that I would take it the way I did, that she feels that her life before me was boring and trite, and she just wanted to make herself seem sexier and thought I would 'like' the story. I know that she has been really trying to work on herself and feels a certain sense of inadequacy about getting older. Above all, she said she was sorry.

I told her, laughing, that I didn't know what to believe but that it didn't matter and either way doesn't change anything between us. I adore her and always will.

Met with my new T. And of course, wife wants to know everything that T and I discussed.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

james5588 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> So my wife pulled my aside the other day and confessed that she made it up, not so much a lie but more of an embellishment (what ever that means). She said that she had no idea that I would take it the way I did, that she feels that her life before me was boring and trite, and she just wanted to make herself seem sexier and thought I would 'like' the story. I know that she has been really trying to work on herself and feels a certain sense of inadequacy about getting older. Above all, she said she was sorry.
> 
> ...


I hope your wife gets some IC. She is basically all over the place. As you said lying seems to be a way of life for her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

james5588 said:


> UPDATE:
> Met with my new T. And of course, wife wants to know everything that T and I discussed.


Big red flag. Don't tell her a thing what goes on in your therapy sessions.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Wow... Who cares! She wasn't with you. Enjoy your marriage with your wife man.

She shouldn't care about your past either.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

james5588 said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> So my wife pulled my aside the other day *and confessed that she made it up*, not so much a lie but more of an embellishment (what ever that means). She said that she had no idea that I would take it the way I did, that she feels that her life before me was boring and trite, and she just wanted to make herself seem sexier and thought I would 'like' the story. I know that she has been really trying to work on herself and feels a certain sense of inadequacy about getting older. Above all, she said she was sorry.
> 
> ...


This sounds extremely sketchy to me, as if she's trying to backpedal her story to smooth things over.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Rubix Cubed said:


> This sounds extremely sketchy to me, as if she's trying to backpedal her story to smooth things over.




Who knows now. I think that sucks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My wife is a chronic liar. What was the word the shrink used? Compulsive liar.

They decided it was something she learned to do as a child in order to get through life. She told a story about how she told the truth one time and got her mouth washed out with soap in a very brutal way for lying. That seems to have actually happened.

But the past is the past, I know I love my wife. I am sure she loves me. We have a lot of checks and balances in place to try to keep her from lying, and we stumble along.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Good luck!


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## AlaMakled (Apr 28, 2017)

Lol!!


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