# What do you define as cheating



## Kiki1234 (Oct 20, 2021)

I'll try to keep this short and not get into the complexities of my marriage as I don't want to derail the primary question here.

I have been speaking to a work colleague via txt about personal matters with my marriage, I've never met her she lives in a different country. My wife looked through my phone and discovered the texts. I may send a few txt's a week at the absolute most. And there were periods of weeks even months where we didn't communicate. We've done this on and off over about 6 months. Things we discuss such as my wife and I had an argument today etc, she will talk about problems with her in-laws etc. There has never been any flirty stuff, zero. During the aftermath, I severed ties with this women and declared we can only communicate work matters. We're both fine with this and we have moved on.

I understand any emotional involvement with another women is considered cheating by some. Personally, if my wife were to do something similar I would be ok with it as long as there is no romantic involvement, no flirting, and I know that I am the only one she lays down with at night. I'd like to know if there are people here who discuss personal matters with friends of the opposite sex and how their partner feels about it ?

I feel the problem is we have different boundaries as to what constitutes cheating and these were not properly communicated. I admit I didn't openly communicate these txt's with her, and withholding information is a red flag, but as I say, there was no romantic involvement whatsoever.

I'd like to hear your thought's on where you draw the line on cheating. My marriage is in a really low point and I love my wife so much but as she has been cheated on in the past it is really hard for her to look past this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It's never advisable to discuss personal problems about your marriage with someone of the opposite sex. It's quite a betrayal for many. If you need to talk to someone outside the marriage choose a male friend or counselor.
Not sure you had an EA exactlyo, but having been cheated on before she will be extra sensitive.
The other issue is that you didn't tell her which made it seem worse.
Apologise and make sure it doesn't happen again.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Kiki1234 said:


> I'll try to keep this short and not get into the complexities of my marriage as I don't want to derail the primary question here.
> 
> I have been speaking to a work colleague via txt about personal matters with my marriage, I've never met her she lives in a different country. My wife looked through my phone and discovered the texts. I may send a few txt's a week at the absolute most. And there were periods of weeks even months where we didn't communicate. We've done this on and off over about 6 months. Things we discuss such as my wife and I had an argument today etc, she will talk about problems with her in-laws etc. There has never been any flirty stuff, zero. During the aftermath, I severed ties with this women and declared we can only communicate work matters. We're both fine with this and we have moved on.
> 
> ...


Stop blaming your poor boundaries and poor judgement which has hurt your wife, on your wife’s past.
Your marriage problems are yours alone. You shouldn’t be sharing those with anyone unless discussing it with your wife beforehand. Certainly not with a woman. 
You’re in the wrong, she’s in the right.
Good luck. You did the right thing stopping communication with the woman.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

What you're doing may or may not satisfy a definition of cheating but IMO it's inappropriate behavior plus it's not a constructive solution for your marriage issues. If you need help, see a professional.

I suggest you both read: "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It’s never a good idea to share marital problems with an opposite sex friend. Affairs often begin from situations just like that so don’t be tempted in the future to start getting close to someone else.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I don't think you should be asking what technically counts as cheating. What is more important to note here is that you kinda screwed up, man. It could be worse of course, but even if you didn't have sex with this woman, what you did do crossed some boundaries and upset your wife. You might not have been technically cheating but you weren't being loyal either. Just try to do better from now on.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

If you're looking for technicalities: Technically, you extremely upset your wife by discussing marriage problems with another woman. That's the bottom line. Most spouses would be upset by this. Most people consider it disloyal.

Apologize to your wife. Do not form intimate friendships with other women outside of your close family members. 

If you are having troubles that you need help with, first speak with your wife to work for resolution. You may need marriage counseling. I second the recommendation to read, "Not Just Friends," by Shirley Glass.


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## Captain Obvious (Mar 14, 2021)

Your wife has been cheated on in the past, you were disclosing private personal matters about your marriage to another woman, all the while withholding this information from your wife, how did you think this would go over with the Mrs?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Kiki,

Discussing you marital problems with someone else is a big issue.

It gives the person you are communicating with privileged information you are likely not sharing with your Wife, it creates a secret bond of intimacy. You say things to this OW you would not say to your Wife.

It's also a classic way affairs start which seems innocent at first, eventually it leads to the OM and OW bonding over mutual scorn, dislike or hatred of their spouses, sometimes this is done intentionally without the other participant knowing what is happening.

There is a resonable chance the OW you are communicating with has done this with others and knows what she is doing.

It slowly erodes your love and respect for your spouse, this is particularly true when you start to think that this OW knows you and feels for you so much and is an outlet or sounding board.

So yes your Wife is correct.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Let me guess. Your wife is not a big talker when it comes to these issues.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

If you were hiding any of it, it was cheating.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

What you were doing is wrong. It is the path to an emotional affair. If this woman were closer, it could have lead to a physical affair. Hell, even with her very far away, you could have ended up having virtual sex via video chat. This “friendship” needs to end. Work with your wife in building up your intimacy. If your wife feels loved and secure in your marriage, she will be there to meet your needs. Talk to her about her needs and share what you need. This can be turned around but you must take the lead. Don’t rug sweep this.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Is this woman in whom you confided private details about your marriage attractive?


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## Savannah01 (Sep 8, 2021)

Kiki1234 said:


> I'll try to keep this short and not get into the complexities of my marriage as I don't want to derail the primary question here.
> 
> I have been speaking to a work colleague via txt about personal matters with my marriage, I've never met her she lives in a different country. My wife looked through my phone and discovered the texts. I may send a few txt's a week at the absolute most. And there were periods of weeks even months where we didn't communicate. We've done this on and off over about 6 months. Things we discuss such as my wife and I had an argument today etc, she will talk about problems with her in-laws etc. There has never been any flirty stuff, zero. During the aftermath, I severed ties with this women and declared we can only communicate work matters. We're both fine with this and we have moved on.
> 
> ...


This actually happened to me with my husband with him messaging someone on social media. While you think this is innocent because it is just “ talking “ , it still is considered inappropriate for a married / commuted man to discuss such personal matters with someone who is not even their actual friend .
Speaking from your wife’s point of view , she feels hurt that you have emotionally attached yourself to a practical stranger to discuss life with . This is an intimate moment between the two of you not a random third person .
For me , when my husband leaned to other women for “ emotional support “ , I was / am still heavily offended .
I felt it was a jab at me and my capacity to be there as his wife .
it set tremendous pain to my self esteem. So if you care about your wife , STOP !
*you have no idea of the mental damage this type of thing does to the betrayed spouse .*
Yes I call BETRAYED … because that is how she feels . And outsider has wanted your frame of mind , this is suppose to be HER job so to speak
If you truly love her , stop ASAP , discuss boundaries with her and determine what works best for BOTH .
I get that some people can sometimes have a more vague sense of boundary than others , but you need to be able to agree on what works best for the two of you. .
BE SELF AWARE OF HOW YOUR ACTIONS MAY MAKE HER FEEL . Only you know her best , *if something you’re doing sounds like you can’t even tell her you’re doing —- it may just be something you’re not supposed to do at all *.
Just a thought !


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

With regards to the main question, cheating is holding any kind of emotional (above a sibling type) relationship or a physical relationship with anyone other than your partner(s) without their knowledge and consent.

Naturally this still leaves a lot to interpretation, especially as to what level an emotional relationship is at. What I see as a sibling relationship with my sister (not of blood. We've just known each other long enough that it is how we feel about each other), another might see as romantic level.



Kiki1234 said:


> I admit I didn't openly communicate these txt's with her, and withholding information is a red flag, but as I say, there was no romantic involvement whatsoever.


This is another one of those areas subject to interpretation. Because you didn't see it as romantic, you saw no reason to bring it up, just as you do not bring up so many other things that happen in your life, and that she does not bring up to you. The is not withholding information. Withholding indicates a deliberate attempt to keep information from someone, which is not the same as simply not thinking it significant to bring up.



> I'd like to hear your thought's on where you draw the line on cheating. My marriage is in a really low point and I love my wife so much but as she has been cheated on in the past it is really hard for her to look past this.


With this knowledge, there should be an effort on your part to head off possible misunderstandings. If you are ever involved with a woman on a regular basis, talk her up in casual conversation, making sure to note the context, and also talk up similar incidences with males that are in the same context. Make it clear that the women in question hold the same position as the men. If you wife is still suspecting cheating after that then the problem is her not you.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Talking to an opposite sex friend about the problems in your marriage is not cheating but it's still a betrayal. You have involved a 3rd person. Your spouse feels humiliated. Everybody needs somebody to talk to you but you exercised poor judgment confiding in this particular person. A same sex buddy would have been a better confidant & you never should have committed the conversation to "writing". Oral, in person, so there is no lasting record would have been a better idea.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Getting all my wife's friends pregnant. Anything less isn't that big a deal.😋

Seriously though, you've already received very accurate advice.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Kiki1234 said:


> I'll try to keep this short and not get into the complexities of my marriage as I don't want to derail the primary question here.
> 
> I have been speaking to a work colleague via txt about personal matters with my marriage, I've never met her she lives in a different country. My wife looked through my phone and discovered the texts. I may send a few txt's a week at the absolute most. And there were periods of weeks even months where we didn't communicate. We've done this on and off over about 6 months. Things we discuss such as my wife and I had an argument today etc, she will talk about problems with her in-laws etc. There has never been any flirty stuff, zero. During the aftermath, I severed ties with this women and declared we can only communicate work matters. We're both fine with this and we have moved on.
> 
> ...


I would say you walked right up to the line of cheating and took a peak over the edge. That is the problem with this kind of personal communication with someone of the opposite sex, or anyone you have a chance of romantic entanglement even if the same sex. Where could this have gone if your wife had not caught on to what you were doing? 

My opinion is discussing even minor issues in your marriage with someone of the opposite sex is totally off limits. I would not want my wife saying one word to another man about a fight or disagreement we had. It is a far too slippery slope. My wife does talk and text with other men, but they are either work related or they are the man from a couple that we are friends with and we plan things together. That said, it doesn't really matter what me or you or anyone else in this thread thinks is cheating. What matters is what does your wife consider cheating. This is why boundaries shouldn't be assumed, they should be openly discussed. 

When you say "We're both fine with this and we have moved on" do you mean your wife was good with you cutting non-work related contact with the OW and has moved on? What is you underlying reason for starting this post? I hope you weren't fishing for validation to start talking to the OW again.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Kiki1234 said:


> I have been speaking to a work colleague via txt about personal matters with my marriage,


This is a HUGE problem. Don't ever talk to the opposite sex about your marital problems. You really should reevaluate your boundary issue, it sucks. 

What you did is how affairs begin, the fact this woman lives in a different country only eliminates convenience. I have my suspicions that if this woman lived down the street something more would be happening.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

It's never ok to share marriage issues with someone of the opposite sex. I have evolved to the point that I don't think it is ok to share them with anyone other than your spouse and a counselor. You harm your spouse and yourself in the eyes of others when you do. When you are bouncing this off someone to vent, you can become emotionally dependent on that release. If that person is of the opposite sex, you can become emotionally dependent on the response. It's not ok and it can tear apart a marriage. I went through this many years ago when my wife started venting to a pastor we had seen for counseling. She became emotionally dependent on him. She began to take issues such as how much our kids played video games to him - I wanted to limit our kids time spent on these for their own mental health. He thought they could play all they wanted with no harm. She listened to him and I lost all say in things going on in my home. I began to drink way too much. It is amazing that we are happily married now. We lived together miserably for years until we found the right counselor. He immediately recognized the emotional affair. If you vent to others, particularly women - and seek/take advice that isn't a professional and things go downhill, you have done your damage.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

You came very close to the line between inappropriate behavior and cheating (EA).

You were essentially just a text message away from an EA. You need to have boundaries to protect yourself and your marriage from this type of thing. Do not have such a relationship with anyone of the opposite sex.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

I define it as any kind of sexual contact or emotional connection with affection towards another person.

So for example, if someone I'm with has eyes for someone else and either has conveyed to the other that they have feelings for them, even that to me is cheating. I wouldn't be able to trust her again.


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## AlabamaWorley (Oct 6, 2021)

Does it matter what anyone else considers cheating? What you did is what your wife considered cheating, whether you believe it is or not. Totally inappropriate for you to do that.


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## Chillidog (Nov 5, 2020)

This is the advice I was recently given about is it cheating
1- Did she keep it secret?
2- Was it damaging to your relationship?
The details don't matter if either or both of those are met.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I always find it fascinating when people ask this question, because usually the underlying implication is "How close to cheating can I come and still claim moral highground?" 

My question is this: "Why would you want to be anywhere CLOSE to unfaithfulness? Why do you want to know how far you can go? Why do you want to know how close to the fire you can get before you get burned?" 

My definition of infidelity is giving anything less than 100% of your affection, companionship, and loyalty to your spouse. That means there is ZERO percent available for any other person (and I'm keeping it gender-neutral so that 0% goes to the gender to which you'd be attracted). My expectation of my spouse is to stay as far away from "technically cheating" as possible! 

Soooo...in my book, yep talking about marital problems with another woman is cheating. Yep, your wife has the right to be upset, because you promised to forsake all others and didn't honor your promise. And yep, you are flirting with disaster. It's up to you, man--continue to see how close you can get without crossing the line, or learn to live in FIDELITY to one person!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

One of the definitions of cheating is, to violate the rules. Based on your wife's response, you violated the rules of your marriage.
How would you like your wife going to another man to talk about you and the problems you are having in your marriage? I'll bet that would make you feel pretty rotten and betrayed. People don't like being talked about negatively to others, especially in the context that you engaged in.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

IMO, if you have to ask, you already know it's wrong. If you hid it from your wife, you did so for a reason.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

You claim no romantic involvement, but you're already entrusting a third party with private matters that should stay within your marriage. _You're confiding discussions that should be had with your wife in another person. _Maybe you and some others don't consider it cheating, but you were on a _very_ slippery slope toward an EA. In fact, that's how a lot of EAs start. All innocent and friendly in the beginning, but then it will progress into you complaining about what your wife does or doesn't do, things about her that annoy you, etc. And with a sounding board, you'd be reinforced to keep talking bad about your wife until all the good is completely overshadowed.

The fact that you knew that your wife was cheated on before makes this even worse, IMO. It's not bad to have friends to confide in, but when you seem to confide in them more than your own spouse, there's a problem.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Kiki1234 said:


> I'd like to hear your thought's on where you draw the line on cheating. My marriage is in a really low point and I love my wife so much but as she has been cheated on in the past it is really hard for her to look past this.


Well as someone who has actually been "cheated on" as in real actual sexual infidelity, not this namby-pamby nonsense claiming that friendship is an emotional affair. I don't think being friends with someone, or talking to them about problems and life etc, qualifies as infidelity.

As to my line, it's pretty simple. The line is sharing sexual acts with others outside of the relationship without informed consent from all parties inside the relationship.

If I were you I wouldn't kowtow to your wife over this at all, in the same way she is allowed to have friends and talk to them etc, you are allowed to have friends and talk to them as well.

And seriously if she is going to wail about it, gnash her teeth and treat you like you have cheated on her. You ought to actually find a woman outside of your marriage willing to share sex with you and do exactly that. To make the drama and carry on from her worth it, by making it actually fit the activity to warrant such behaviour.

At the end of the day if you humour such nonsense, you will certainly be rewarded with more of that nonsense. On the other hand if you want to encourage her to get a grip, tell her you think she is being ridiculous and you're not going to humour such nonsense.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Kiki1234 Was what you did cheating? Perhaps not.

But was what you did disrespectful of your wife? Almost certainly yes.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

Talking with a friend, eh?

I think an important question to resolve is whether or not this friend is a "friend of the marriage," or not a friend of the marriage -- See Dr. Glass's book, "NOT Just Friends."

The second issue is that, to me, an essential component of all cheating (whether it is sexual, emotional, financial, drinking, or what-have-you) is lying, secrecy, and other acts of deception, hiding, and covering up. Here one has to be careful of "lies by omission," not just the telling falsehoods... 

Beware the slippery slope!


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

There is so much good advice, I have little to add. There are a few things I would like to comment on.

First, yes you can talk to someone about the problems in your marriage and it is not a betrayal, in some circumstances. That is what counselors, ministers, priests can help with. That can also be what parents, sisters,brothers, mentors can help you with. However, as pointed out by others, reaching out to someone of the opposite sex for emotional support is a slippery slope toward and EA. Also if you reach out to someone such as a counselor, priest, close relative there needs to be an explicit understanding that what is discussed is confidential and that you are seeking the benefits of getting things off your chest and having someone experienced in the many facets of life providing you with some perspective.

Second, what is the definition of cheating? Well if depends. In a marriage there should be some understandings of what are the critical boundaries to that marriage. Those boundaries may change over time and may not be reciprocal. Therefore, I see the concept of cheating has having a fuzzy grey boundary and not a crisp edge, and that fuzzy boundary can change over time or based on conditions and cultures.

Some religions allow multiple wives. Over time, cultures and governments have changed to accept same sex marriages. Once upon a time, one married for life in some cultures/religions; not so much anymore.

Some wives would consider their husband going out to a strip club occasionally as cheating and others would not. Some husbands would consider a wife going out with coworkers to have a drink in celebration of a work team victory as cheating. Cheating is a slippery slope with no sharp edge. People need to protect themself and especially their spouse. This means avoiding even the appearance of impropriety.

Rather than focusing on what is the technical definition of cheating, the OP should engage in discussions with his wife (or with the help of a marriage counselor) to resolve the marriage problems and be open and honest with the spouse in setting boundaries and rebuilding the marital trust.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Rather than focusing on what is the technical definition of cheating, the OP should engage in discussions with his wife (or with the help of a marriage counselor) to resolve the marriage problems and be open and honest with the spouse in setting boundaries and rebuilding the marital trust.


Yes, ^^^^ This.
Focus on resolving marriage problems in a healthy manner. If your wife is offended, your first concern should be resolving her hurt feelings. You both should have each other's backs. If you don't care about her feelings, that is not having her back.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Anything of a sexual nature(physical, emotional or visual) shared with another outside your marriage. Does not include receiving counsel for a problem...from an appropriate person.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Kiki1234 said:


> I'll try to keep this short and not get into the complexities of my marriage as I don't want to derail the primary question here.
> 
> I have been speaking to a work colleague via txt about personal matters with my marriage, I've never met her she lives in a different country. My wife looked through my phone and discovered the texts. I may send a few txt's a week at the absolute most. And there were periods of weeks even months where we didn't communicate. We've done this on and off over about 6 months. Things we discuss such as my wife and I had an argument today etc, she will talk about problems with her in-laws etc. There has never been any flirty stuff, zero. During the aftermath, I severed ties with this women and declared we can only communicate work matters. We're both fine with this and we have moved on.
> 
> ...


I define cheating as anything that you would do with somebody else that you should be doing with your spouse.
It's ok to get verbally playful if it's only situational. However, it should not go beyond that in any way shape or form. No emails flirting or saying things that should be said to your loved spouse.


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