# "You left me"



## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

That's his only come back....
Apparently it's all my fault and "I left him" after years of trying to get him to do something...ANYTHING to fix what I saw was broken. He wouldn't talk to me without getting angry and bolting (or even try to be open minded), he wouldn't have sex with me (and yes, after I while I just didn't care anymore), once I made my decision we needed to separate, he refused to leave our home and go stay in one of his parent's vacant homes, he refused to go to therapy....it seems he refuses to take any blame.....

I'm STILL in therapy and even *she* says that I have to know that based on his/our history, nothing is changing.

Why do I care what he thinks?
Because we've been together 20 years?

What will it take for him to wake up?
I left 3 months ago....will he EVER wake up?

Even if it's too late for us (and I'm just tired of trying at this point).....will he ever talk to me?

I need some help here guys, it's hard for me to understand!


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

My H used to do that to me.. I'd ask him if he wanted to work this marriage out and fight for us and he'd say.. "its hard because you left me."

I would look at him and say.. I left you to wake you the F*ck up, there is huge problems here that need to be fixed.

But it's all he had, and he held onto it. I have a feeling yours will too. They want someone to blame for feeling like they don't want to be in the marriage anymore I think. And its easier to point a finger than to look at themselves.

My H never woke up, he is now out for good and we are taking steps to divorce.

"The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results." 

Stop the insanity. You can't change him or his mind.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> My H used to do that to me.. I'd ask him if he wanted to work this marriage out and fight for us and he'd say.. "its hard because you left me."
> 
> I would look at him and say.. I left you to wake you the F*ck up, there is huge problems here that need to be fixed.
> 
> ...



*"The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results." * You have NO IDEA how many times I've said this to myself....it's crazy you would quote it too!

I feel guilt...why is that?
I have sat this man down I don't know how many times telling him what I thought we needed to work on....I didn't blame him, I said "WE"....as a couple, as parents, as lovers and as people!
I saw NO effort...I STILL see no effort. I text him after he said, "I gotta...I gotta go" and told him not once has he asked me, "What will it take to save our marriage"....I said other things like, "If it's your pride keeping you from talking to me, make sure it's worth it"....and do you know, he hasn't responded, or when I've seen him (over the weekend at our son's baseball tournament) he never once tried to talk to me or even hint he wanted to? This gives me no reason to believe he wants to work anything out and as far as I'm concerned, we're done. 

I made the mistake of making him the priority in both our lives, it's time to take care of me....and I guess I'm just not good without closure. Maybe I'll never get it, but I want so bad to understand it....for me


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I felt guilt to.. like i was giving up everything i've lived for, for the past 15 years. Like i gave up on helping my H with his issues. It will pass... soon you will realize you can't control what he does or says, but you can control how you respond to it.

I've decided for myself, its time to move on. I have to stop my co-dependant ways. I can't fix him, its on him to fix himself. I can only insure my own happiness not everyone elses.

You will get there too... now mind you it took me over 7 years to get here. Its a hard process, and very eye opening. Are you having any IC? it helps.. trust me.

I would do the same thing to my H, I would say stuff like, "why can't you love me?" "why can't you give me an answer?" I would literally sit and talk my head off for an hour or more.. and he wouldn't say a word. Wouldn't give me any emotion, wouldn't display any affection toward me. Finally, I just couldn't do it anymore. It was time to get out, and take care of me. So finally I told him exactly what you said... "I refuse to make myself an option, when I should be a priority, so I remove myself as one of your options." 

Since then I have been rebuilding myself.. slowly but surely. And he is taking notice. Other men are taking notice (not that I'm interested). But this makes him notice a lot more. He is now texting me non stop.. I ignore them all. It just seems like once I started taking care of myself, and not concerning myself with what he was up to, he took notice. But now I realize how strong and ok i am without him.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> I felt guilt to.. like i was giving up everything i've lived for, for the past 15 years. Like i gave up on helping my H with his issues. It will pass... soon you will realize you can't control what he does or says, but you can control how you respond to it.
> 
> I've decided for myself, its time to move on. I have to stop my co-dependant ways. I can't fix him, its on him to fix himself. I can only insure my own happiness not everyone elses.
> 
> ...



Yes, I am in therapy.....
I have been months before I left. He laughed when I told him...
Said they were just after your money...I told him w/my insurance it's only $20 and he p*sses more than that away a month! lol He still refuses, he said he'd go ONE time but when I called his bluff he admitted to just saying it....
You gotta have an open mind and be honest, and MAINLY be able to admit there's a problem before you can fix it or therapy even be able to make an impact.

It's so sad about what we've become....
It's easy for us to point to the finger at one another....
I'm just tired...and I'm ready to move on.

Like you, I have co-dependant tendancies (lol) major ones....
Since I've started working on that part of me I need to, I've noticed the ppl around me seem to panic. I'm putting my needs before theirs and they can't understand it....including him.

And yes, men are started to pay attention....feels good but I'm still trying to get over this brain (you know what) so I have no room for another one right now.....

Thanks for your input, honestly....
For once in a while, I feel like I'm gonna be ok!


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

If you ever need to talk don't hesitate to send me a messege  I know its hard.. and I have been and am still there somedays.. it does get easier tho I promise!


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> If you ever need to talk don't hesitate to send me a messege  I know its hard.. and I have been and am still there somedays.. it does get easier tho I promise!


Thank you!

I will see him tonight @my son's baseball game....wish me luck!



> *If you ever need to talk don't hesitate to send me a messege *


 same goes to you!


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## rider03 (Apr 7, 2009)

Ok...guys point of view. I'm in the exact same situation except it's reversed. She won't do anything to work on our marriage and I've given up. Even our (well, my; she doesn't go anymore) counselor has thrown in the towel. She says she has no idea why my wife won't act. She says she does not want to get divorced and even said recently she'll "try really hard" to work on things, and then never lifts a finger. It's all talk.

I agree with Lilyana...he's not likely to ever change. Nor is my wife. I've come to terms with that and plan on filing this summer. She's just never going to put forth any effort on anything in her life, even if it costs her the marriage and breakup of our family. She'd rather suffer that consequence than do the work it would take.

All you, and I, and Lilyana can do is move on and work on our own happiness instead of trying to make them "wake up". It's their choice not to and it's our choice to not continue living that way.

Good luck!


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Good luck to you too rider!

It's so hard... I went through this for 7 years.. where he wanted to fix it.. then didn't lift finger to do so. I hate to see anyone else stuck like I was. It's sad that I can see it from a mile away, but couldnt see it when it was me.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I can so relate. 
You see, I am the one who moved out after months and months of telling him something was wrong. He would have none of it and did nto want to do counselling, I do'nt think he ever realized how much pain I was in, that I was throwing him a rope but he he wouldn't reach for it. He would tell me nothing would change, that I was upset over nothing, and he would get angry at me on top of this.

Like that Corrine Bailey-Rae song says "I cried so much I had to leave."

He was cruel and I would literally cry in front of him, saying "something is wrong and we need to get help" and he would tell me to move out of his way, that talking would not resolve anything. Ouch. He would turn off his emotions and completely stop speaking to me for days/week sometimes. It was like living in a madhouse whenever he'd have his "off" moments.

In the end, his pride was more important than our marriage. Later we tried to reconcile but I think my leaving really was the hardest for him. I never wanted to divorce and I was aways willing to work things out. In the end, he did not want the same. I have guilt over leaving. He told me he has guilt for not trying everything to save our marriage and he will have to live w/ that for the rest of his life.

I thought marriage was forever. And I still hurt thinking about all of these things. In the end,, he decided marriage wasn't what he wanted. It's messed up too cause I think, Why did he ask me to marry him and then treat me that way, why was he so angry all of the time? 

My advice to you is to try on your end... 
But it takes TWO. One person alone cannot save/restore a marriage. 
If he isn't willing to try, you need to let him go. A lifetime spent trying to keep something broken together, when only one person wants to keep it together, is no life.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

rider03 said:


> Ok...guys point of view. I'm in the exact same situation except it's reversed. She won't do anything to work on our marriage and I've given up. Even our (well, my; she doesn't go anymore) counselor has thrown in the towel. She says she has no idea why my wife won't act. She says she does not want to get divorced and even said recently she'll "try really hard" to work on things, and then never lifts a finger. It's all talk.
> 
> I agree with Lilyana...he's not likely to ever change. Nor is my wife. I've come to terms with that and plan on filing this summer. She's just never going to put forth any effort on anything in her life, even if it costs her the marriage and breakup of our family. She'd rather suffer that consequence than do the work it would take.
> 
> ...



Thanks Rider for weighing in....
I just don't get it really, he was still saying (until money was discussed) "I love you, I miss you, you can come home" to me.
I finally said, "Come home to what?"
I left b/c for three years, I've been the only one talking, asking for change...nothing from him as a person except to try to work on us and our family. It's like he's in a rut, and so strong willed and stubborn, he refuses to do anything.

I give up....I just do


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> I can so relate.
> You see, I am the one who moved out after months and months of telling him something was wrong. He would have none of it and did nto want to do counselling, I do'nt think he ever realized how much pain I was in, that I was throwing him a rope but he he wouldn't reach for it. He would tell me nothing would change, that I was upset over nothing, and he would get angry at me on top of this.
> 
> Like that Corrine Bailey-Rae song says "I cried so much I had to leave."
> ...



I'm so sorry....
I'm right there with you!
Pride is something men should be able to step away from if it's important enough to them....guess I'm/we're not.
I've done all I can, and I'm at the point where I feel hopeless.
I no longer have to live in our home w/that but I'm already in the process of filing. In SC, we have to live separatly for one year....but my attorney is drafting up an "Agreement" (since we don't have "legal separations" in SC)....he is gonna flip his lid. This will force him to do something I'm quite sure he will once again refuse to do....but this is HIS choice and he will suffer consciences but they will be his own doing.

I hope that he learns from all this, I know I have.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Its not just men Justagirl my wife is the one leaving possibly leaving ok not sure kinda in limbo at the moment but anyways I was the only one putting in the effort as a couple (she did try to do things but she tried to do them by herself instead of as a partner with no regard to if it really mattered to me) situation is somewhat similar because on D-day there was all this talk about being friends blah blah blah now on my off days I am not allowed to act upset?!?!?

I am in the doubting but hopeful stage of limbo, I doubt its going to be saved but I am hopeful she will have a waking up before its done. Because when its done I am going to move on and if their is a future for us at that point it won't be as "easy" (using quotes because even right now it won't be easy) as it could be before being final.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

JustAGirl said:


> I hope that he learns from all this, I know I have.


He will learn something from it, who knows when. 
What happened wtih me is I started to resent him over time. Started to resent that I felt like an afterthought to him. That I was the only one trying. That despite my repeated attempts to reach out to him, he simply did not care enough to make the effort. He would tell me if I didn't like the way things were, that I could leave and he'd threaten divorce or say how we would divorce anytime he disagreed w/ anything I said. Low blow.

So when the resentment started, I realized that I started to lose respect for him as a man, as a confidant, as a lover. And then it was bad news, baby. 

I will always regret the way I left. For sure. I am sure he will always regret not trying. He told me so. I am happy though because even though I left, I still left the door open for him and I never gave up but I made it very clear to him that he was either in it with me, or I was gone. He chose the former and I chose me. 

I empathize with this thread greatly and my heart goes out to you 110%. Eventually I realized...I couldn't do it alone.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Niceguy13 said:


> Its not just men Justagirl my wife is the one leaving possibly leaving ok not sure kinda in limbo at the moment but anyways I was the only one putting in the effort as a couple (she did try to do things but she tried to do them by herself instead of as a partner with no regard to if it really mattered to me) situation is somewhat similar because on D-day there was all this talk about being friends blah blah blah now on my off days I am not allowed to act upset?!?!?
> 
> I am in the doubting but hopeful stage of limbo, I doubt its going to be saved but I am hopeful she will have a waking up before its done. Because when its done I am going to move on and if their is a future for us at that point it won't be as "easy" (using quotes because even right now it won't be easy) as it could be before being final.


I'm sorry! I hope things work out for you...
Why does some marriages have to be so one-sided?

Is this how your relationship started out?
Just curious....b/c it's EXACTLY how mine started, stayed and still remains....


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> He will learn something from it, who knows when.
> What happened wtih me is I started to resent him over time. Started to resent that I felt like an afterthought to him. That I was the only one trying. That despite my repeated attempts to reach out to him, he simply did not care enough to make the effort. He would tell me if I didn't like the way things were, that I could leave and he'd threaten divorce or say how we would divorce anytime he disagreed w/ anything I said. Low blow.
> 
> So when the resentment started, I realized that I started to lose respect for him as a man, as a confidant, as a lover. And then it was bad news, baby.
> ...


Whew! Do I know what you mean by resentment!
My husband, to me, was a beautiful man...a very manly man. Someone who made me feel safe and I loved him so much, I can remember looking out the window just to watch him drive off....missing him like crazy!
As time went on, I became resentful and bitter and it ate away at me. I would hear, "I love you" and didn't believe it anymore....cause you know what? If someone loves you....I think they should *WANT* to put you first....even if they can't, even if it's unrealistic....they *WANT* to make you a priority. Does that makes sense?

He slowly gave me less and less....so when I got nothing, I felt nothing. I've said it once and I'll say it again....'it will take a miracle from God to get us back together'...............

I'm sorry for what you're going thru too....all of us!

((((((((((BIG HUG))))))))))


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

JustAGirl said:


> As time went on, I became resentful and bitter and it ate away at me. I would hear, "I love you" and didn't believe it anymore....cause you know what? If someone loves you....I think they should *WANT* to put you first....even if they can't, even if it's unrealistic....they *WANT* to make you a priority. Does that makes sense?


Absolutely. Saying and doing aren't the same things. 

ACTIONS speak louder than pretty words. 

After we separated I told ex-H that it was like we had a square made of ribbons...and he kept stripping each layer away until there was nothing for me to hold anymore.

And w/ each layer stripped, I lost love/respect for him.

It was awful.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

JustAGirl said:


> That's his only come back....
> Apparently it's all my fault and "I left him" after years of trying to get him to do something...


Sometimes all it takes is to hear it from someone else. Find a good article on walk away wives. Hand it to him.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

unfortunatley Mom in my case and probaly JAG's case they have already justified, it wasnt them it was us we didn't let them be free, we were to controlling, etc and so forth when it was truley we just didn't feel love, it may not have been intentional but they emotional mind ****ed us to a place where we were the victimizer and believed it was all our fault. Not saying it is, but doesn't change the feelings.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Niceguy13 said:


> unfortunatley Mom in my case and probaly JAG's case they have already justified, it wasnt them it was us we didn't let them be free, we were to controlling, etc and so forth when it was truley we just didn't feel love, it may not have been intentional but they emotional mind ****ed us to a place where we were the victimizer and believed it was all our fault. Not saying it is, but doesn't change the feelings.


Sounds like you are already f'ed if you don't mind my saying so. But marriage is a 2 person endeavor. But SOMEONE has to start the of change stupid, twisted dynamics to functional ones. You feel this, she feels that. Dollars gets you donuts there is plenty of fault for both of you to share. Skip the fault. Find the solutions.


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Quite honestly, if my ex said to me, 'honey, lets try and fix this' I would have to say no. Not because I hate her or anything like that, because she has lied left right and center to me over the last 6 months. rebuild the trust, no, far too many 'bad' things have happened, yeah, I still miss her something shocking, but miss my kids more.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Absolutely. Saying and doing aren't the same things.
> 
> ACTIONS speak louder than pretty words.
> 
> ...


*ACTIONS speak louder than pretty words. * AMEN! This is really what it boils down to for me. You _say_ you love me, miss me and want me to come home....how about _showing_ me? Try to talk to me....that's a major problem in our marriage....I do ALL the talking and he isn't interested at all. Does he really think _anything_ will change if we don't talk? I've told him silence won't fix anything....yet he remains...silent.



> Mom6547 Sometimes all it takes is to hear it from someone else. Find a good article on walk away wives. Hand it to him.


 I watched the video....I just don't understand why we give men so little credit. I think they _know_ things aren't right, but don't do anything about it. Society has put it in their heads that women do all the talking and relationship stuff so they become lazy and don't have to do any of the work? No....not buying it! I don't mean _all_ men do this....but in my case, my husband is clueless because he choses to be.



> Niceguy13 unfortunatley Mom in my case and probaly JAG's case they have already justified, it wasnt them it was us we didn't let them be free, we were to controlling, etc and so forth when it was truley we just didn't feel love, it may not have been intentional but they emotional mind ****ed us to a place where we were the victimizer and believed it was all our fault. Not saying it is, but doesn't change the feelings.


 He never was controlling etc....he just wasn't there. Not present in our relationship....he left me a long time before I left him. I swear he's depressed, but he doesn't believe in depression, so how can anyone help him? GRRRRR



> Mom6547 Quote:
> Originally Posted by Niceguy13
> unfortunatley Mom in my case and probaly JAG's case they have already justified, it wasnt them it was us we didn't let them be free, we were to controlling, etc and so forth when it was truley we just didn't feel love, it may not have been intentional but they emotional mind ****ed us to a place where we were the victimizer and believed it was all our fault. Not saying it is, but doesn't change the feelings.
> 
> Sounds like you are already f'ed if you don't mind my saying so. But marriage is a 2 person endeavor. But SOMEONE has to start the of change stupid, twisted dynamics to functional ones. You feel this, she feels that. Dollars gets you donuts there is plenty of fault for both of you to share. Skip the fault. Find the solutions.


 I've tried letting go of who's at fault for what....I would love to talk about a solution with him, but he's still caught up in "fault" or else he wouldn't just say, "You left me"......so my only option is to move forward. My therapist has been telling me, he doesn't believe what I say. I think he FINALLY understands I left, but he doesn't understand that I'm done with our marriage and relationship the way it's been for 3/4 years....



> Crankshaw
> Quite honestly, if my ex said to me, 'honey, lets try and fix this' I would have to say no. Not because I hate her or anything like that, because she has lied left right and center to me over the last 6 months. rebuild the trust, no, far too many 'bad' things have happened, yeah, I still miss her something shocking, but miss my kids more.


 Honey, you've been thru so much! All I want for you is to be happy again! I mean that! You deserve it! *saying a little prayer for you*


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

JustAGirl said:


> He just wasn't there. Not present in our relationship....he left me a long time before I left him.


Once again, you're writing the story of my marriage. 

It get really old crying in front of him telling him we needed to do MC and that I wanted to find a solution to our problem and him brushing me off, stonewalling me and telling me to move out of his way, to leave if I did not like things. One day, I called his bluff.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

OK two people misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasn't saying he was being controlling well not agressivley I was meaning he was passive aggresivley controlling you and then when you finaly had enough and went off you were just being a "nag" or some such. In my case I was being a "controlling *******." I can tell you are past blame well for the incidents, I am there with you(I do blame for the D when she checked out long ago)

There is stuff I did wrong stuff she did wrong but I see it all as stuff WE (me and her collectivley) did wrong only problem is one person alone can't fix it. I can take the steps but if she isn't willing to start taking steps with me eventualy my steps will lead me out of her life. As for giving us so little credit I think the opposite happens maybe its the whole how we think. Not saying every man and every woman think exactly the same but as a rule of thumb men tend to think and express one way women another. We hit thinks with hammers and are anything but subtle you ladies handle things at all times with grace and poise.

Like I said it sounds like he justified to himself why he emotionaly disconnected from you. Rewrote your guy's history whatever the case may be.

Wish you the best though in all future endeavors you seem like a great lady and deserve only the best in your life.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Niceguy13 said:


> There is stuff I did wrong stuff she did wrong but I see it all as stuff WE (me and her collectivley) did wrong only problem is *one person alone can't fix it.*



EXACTLY. It takes TWO. And if one half isn't willing to do the work, you've got nothing.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Niceguy13 said:


> OK two people misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasn't saying he was being controlling well not agressivley I was meaning he was passive aggresivley controlling you and then when you finaly had enough and went off you were just being a "nag" or some such. In my case I was being a "controlling *******." I can tell you are past blame well for the incidents, I am there with you(I do blame for the D when she checked out long ago)
> 
> There is stuff I did wrong stuff she did wrong but I see it all as stuff WE (me and her collectivley) did wrong only problem is one person alone can't fix it. I can take the steps but if she isn't willing to start taking steps with me eventualy my steps will lead me out of her life. As for giving us so little credit I think the opposite happens maybe its the whole how we think. Not saying every man and every woman think exactly the same but as a rule of thumb men tend to think and express one way women another. We hit thinks with hammers and are anything but subtle you ladies handle things at all times with grace and poise.
> 
> ...


No no....I get what you're saying! I agree with you, sometimes I write exactly what I'm thinking so maybe you misunderstood me lol (and our troubles begin lol)

He is TOTALLY passive aggressive! True True True!
My therapist pointed this out to me, by him not doing ANYTHING or saying ANYTHING he was controlling the whole situation! No doubt!

And I wish you the best too! Life is so short and I'm a happy person....guess it starts with me. Right now I'm concentrating on myself and my son and it's a good place to be


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Once again, you're writing the story of my marriage.
> 
> It get really old crying in front of him telling him we needed to do MC and that I wanted to find a solution to our problem and him brushing me off, stonewalling me and telling me to move out of his way, to leave if I did not like things. One day, I called his bluff.


I'm tired of crying! I cried daily at home, my son would hear it in my voice or see it on my face....sadness.
Not a good example to be setting for him.

My H never said I could leave, he just said we could work it out and then left the room lol


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> EXACTLY. It takes TWO. And if one half isn't willing to do the work, you've got nothing.


:iagree: too


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Yeah wasn't sure if you and me actualy misunderstood each other, the other person I could care less if they misunderstood me because this is your story not mine  so didn't want to assume anything etc and so forth.

Yeah the children going "Why are you sad?" forces you to "parent" up real quick. I don't know where I would be without TAM and my kids. It does sound like he doubts your authenticity of the statement.

I would suggest continuing what you are doing and adding in a needs list. Not giving it to him immediatley but for you. When he tries to change your mind reference that needs list and see if he has complied yet. If you feel he is getting serious about wanting you to stay share it with him.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Niceguy13 said:


> Yeah wasn't sure if you and me actualy misunderstood each other, the other person I could care less if they misunderstood me because this is your story not mine  so didn't want to assume anything etc and so forth.
> 
> Yeah the children going "Why are you sad?" forces you to "parent" up real quick. I don't know where I would be without TAM and my kids. It does sound like he doubts your authenticity of the statement.
> 
> I would suggest continuing what you are doing and adding in a needs list. Not giving it to him immediatley but for you. When he tries to change your mind reference that needs list and see if he has complied yet. If you feel he is getting serious about wanting you to stay share it with him.


Thanks! I shared my "needs" list with him back 3/4 years ago....
Didn't help then or the other times I've tried, so I don't know that it ever will....


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

JustAGirl said:


> I watched the video....I just don't understand why we give men so little credit. I think they _know_ things aren't right, but don't do anything about it. Society has put it in their heads that women do all the talking and relationship stuff so they become lazy and don't have to do any of the work?


Don't blame society. Or men. There is plenty wrong with all of us that we can all take credit for being messed up.

That said, we each have a role to play in changing our disfuntional relationships. I really don't know your back story. But the one thing that popped out at me about this paragraph above is a fundamental difference between men and women.

Men don't WANT relationships to be all work. To them, if they have to work morning noon and night, it is not worth it. They can be willing to work when motivated, unfortunately often through effective limit setting. But if the fun and joy is stripped out of the relationship, then the motivation to work will not happen even with effective limit setting.





> He never was controlling etc....he just wasn't there. Not present in our relationship....he left me a long time before I left him. I swear he's depressed, but he doesn't believe in depression, so how can anyone help him? GRRRRR


I don't know what that means. Back in our bad old days, my DH did not look present in our relationship. But he was in the exact same boat I was. Unhappy and with no clue what to do about it. The talking just felt another burden to him. 



> I've tried letting go of who's at fault for what....I would love to talk about a solution with him, but he's still caught up in "fault" or else he wouldn't just say, "You left me"......so my only option is to move forward. My therapist has been telling me, he doesn't believe what I say. I think he FINALLY understands I left, but he doesn't understand that I'm done with our marriage and relationship the way it's been for 3/4 years....


Well if you are, in fact, done, then what is the problem? Let him go. 



> Honey, you've been thru so much! All I want for you is to be happy again! I mean that! You deserve it! *saying a little prayer for you*


There you go. Good for you.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Niceguy13 said:


> There is stuff I did wrong stuff she did wrong but I see it all as stuff WE (me and her collectivley) did wrong only problem is one person alone can't fix it.


That is actually not entirely true. Yes eventually both partners have to get on board with a new and healthy positive dynamic. But ONE person can begin change to engender that positive dynamic. 

I think that there is a great deal of emphasis placed on "communication" in marriage. Yes it is very important. But the HEARING and the DOING parts of communication are far more important than the talking part.





> I can take the steps but if she isn't willing to start taking steps with me eventualy my steps will lead me out of her life.


That is certainly true. The rub is knowing whether you took the RIGHT steps.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Men don't WANT relationships to be all work. To them, if they have to work morning noon and night, it is not worth it. They can be willing to work when motivated, unfortunately often through effective limit setting. But if the fun and joy is stripped out of the relationship, then the motivation to work will not happen even with effective limit setting.
> 
> It does take (some) work....my relationship is a shining example. No work = no relationship. His lack of willingness to do anything continues to show me he doesn't want to do anything to make it work. Guess maybe I went about it all wrong::instead of talking w/him about what I thought "we" needed calmly and not pointing fingers, I should have nagged and given him an ultimadum:: clearly how I went about it didn't work
> 
> ...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

You misunderstand me. I am not suggesting anything like sweeping things under the rug. Honestly I have no idea what you did do. Maybe you were perfect, and he just wasn't there.

My point is many people on this group and on the other groups I belong to have what I think is a less than useful approach to the work. Many people think that working on their marriage is nothing more than saying honey I want this to change. ... Yah that would be nice, but in practice it rarely does.

There are things one CAN do to get change. But most people don't want to hear about it.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> You misunderstand me. I am not suggesting anything like sweeping things under the rug. Honestly I have no idea what you did do. Maybe you were perfect, and he just wasn't there.
> 
> My point is many people on this group and on the other groups I belong to have what I think is a less than useful approach to the work. Many people think that working on their marriage is nothing more than saying honey I want this to change. ... Yah that would be nice, but in practice it rarely does.
> 
> There are things one CAN do to get change. But most people don't want to hear about it.


I'm sorry....maybe I did misunderstand you.
I wasn't perfect by any means but I was the only one willing to stand up and acknowledge that there were problems. Tried pointing them out, tried to discuss how to fix them and all I got was...well nothing. I started therapy and he laughed, refused to go to therapy once I told him I wanted to separate...all he's done is refuse...I just don't get how a man can say one thing and do (or refuse) to do anything to try and fix it. I am honestly baffled!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

JustAGirl said:


> I'm sorry....maybe I did misunderstand you.
> I wasn't perfect by any means but I was the only one willing to stand up and acknowledge that there were problems. Tried pointing them out, tried to discuss how to fix them and all I got was...well nothing. I started therapy and he laughed, refused to go to therapy once I told him I wanted to separate...all he's done is refuse...I just don't get how a man can say one thing and do (or refuse) to do anything to try and fix it. I am honestly baffled!


Well you wanted MC and he refused. Sounds like pretty heavy denial. The mantra we don't have a problem repeated often enough sounds real to some people.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> Well you wanted MC and he refused. Sounds like pretty heavy denial. The mantra we don't have a problem repeated often enough sounds real to some people.


Yeah, I think he was trying the old "fake it till you make it" but I didn't see it that way. 

He is in total denial....
Sad really


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