# She did it again



## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

I'm back on this board after a few months off. To summarize my situation I found out my wife went on Ashley Madison and met a guy for lunch. I don't think anything physical happened at least with that guy. If you have time, this is all in my previous posts.

This really floored me, and I learned a lot about surviving infidelity. I have been seeing our relationship in a new light, but I can't say its a favorable view. Many of the commenters focussed on my role in causing her to stray. She says I am too boring and life is nothing but a series of chores with me (paying the bills, raising the children, maintaining the house).

I wanted to change. I am seeing a counselor and we went to couples counseling. It is hard to change with a threat hanging over my head. I don't feel very light and free when I can't trust that my wife doesn't have a foot out the door already. As far as grabbing life by the horns, it's all I can do to keep my business up and running and take care of the kids. The rest of the time I want to crawl in a hole. 

Last week I found a reference to some "sexy texts" that she was receiving. After initially denying it, she admitted that she had been getting texts from someone who "knew she was unhappy in her marriage". She wouldn't tell me who it was, or any of the other details. I now realize that there is no way she could be getting these texts without being involved with this person somehow. No one would send unsolicited texts to a married woman, would they?

Tonight I am going to ask her for full disclosure - name and details. I want to contact the other man and let him know I'm not going to let her go so easily. I want her to end the relationship, but I'm not sure she will do this. I want to stay married, but how much should I take? I want to fight for the marriage, but after her first slip - up I told her the next would not be forgiven so easily. Am I crazy? I am so unsettled right now I'm sure I'm not making the best decisions. What action should I take? I feel like I let this happen again, but in reality she is the one acting out. Can I get past this without knowing the details? Any advice?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm very sorry to see that you are back. I thought we'd finally gotten rid of you!  Regardless, you have my deepest sympathy - this is a terrible blow.



> Many of the commenters focussed on my role in causing her to stray.


I am not sure if you allude to advice you received here, but if it is, I'd like to point out that the focus has not been on you 'causing' her to stray, but in being part of the relationship that is failing. Because the relationship had (has) troubles, she _chose_ to stray. An affair seemed to be a useful option to escape the problem in the marriage; perhaps a way to avoid it. Regardless, no one here has maintained that you caused her to stray. We maintain that both partners are responsible for problems in the marriage, and that the choice to stray is one of many available choices - albeit not a moral one. 



> I wanted to change. I am seeing a counselor and we went to couples counseling. It is hard to change with a threat hanging over my head. I don't feel very light and free when I can't trust that my wife doesn't have a foot out the door already.


Changing is a good thing: but what is actually changed is important - as is the reason to change. The line "...It is hard to change with a threat hanging over my head..." appears to make the change dependent on her behavior. It should be _regardless of_ her behavior, for the simple reason that the change should be for your benefit - regardless of how your marriage turns out. It would be wisest not to put off change: carrying this same problem into another relationship will cause the same problem. Changing is not designed to keep her (that would be deceptive - verging on control), but to improve yourself, to create a situation in which that 'foot out the door' may not seem like such a great option. And even if she does leave, you will have improved to the extent that you may not face a similar situation ever again.



> As far as grabbing life by the horns, it's all I can do to keep my business up and running and take care of the kids. The rest of the time I want to crawl in a hole.


Am I safe in assuming that your wife has nothing to do with your business, and does not take care of the kids? 

Again, the desire to 'crawl into a hole' hints back to the problems that were bothering your wife in the first place: this is probably the area where you should be working hardest to change. No one wants to sit around in a relationship where their partner is doing all they can to withdraw, engage in self pity, and avoidance. It tends to turn people off...



> Tonight I am going to ask her for full disclosure - name and details. I want to contact the other man and let him know I'm not going to let her go so easily. I want her to end the relationship, but I'm not sure she will do this.


I'd suggest using our 'seven' steps - you have done step one - so follow them carefully. (I'm assuming that you do wish to save your marriage!)



> I want to stay married, but how much should I take? I want to fight for the marriage, but after her first slip - up I told her the next would not be forgiven so easily.


Completely understandable!



> Am I crazy?


No - just a stubborn old curmudgeon! (=



> I am so unsettled right now I'm sure I'm not making the best decisions. What action should I take? I feel like I let this happen again, but in reality she is the one acting out.


First, although you played a part in 'letting this happen' (there are unaddressed problems to which she is finding really bad solutions), PLEASE don't take it personally! She is a fully capable, rational human being. She is CHOOSING this method - that is her responsibility, and the consequences are hers to face. 

Second: it is totally understandable to feel lost. That's why we have deliberately created that 'seven step' method (saying that feels so cliche!) - it save you the trouble of trying to figure out what to do next, where to turn: all you need to do is take the steps one at a time and take deep breathes, take care of yourself, etc., in the meantime.

Third: by all means contact the Other Man (one time only) and tell him that you want your wife, and you are working on your marriage, and that you request that he back off.



> Can I get past this without knowing the details? Any advice?


Sure - you can get past it without details! All you need to know, in reality, is that infidelity is occurring, and that your marriage cannot survive that. More important is to learn exactly WHY this keep happening. Strangely (ironic?) I wrote an analogy on another post today that is apropos: 

You're driving down the road and a wheel flies off the car. You manage to pull over, and put it back on. Driving down the road, the wheel flies off again. You put it back on and continue. The problem is that unless you take the effort to find out WHY that wheel keeps coming off, it will just keep happening - until one time it causes a major accident, and the car is destroyed.​
Find out what's going on. And stay calm! You are a great person, with some flaws, like all the rest of us - but still - look at what you've accomplished! There's hope both for you and your marriage!


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for your quick reply T.

I agree with the idea of changing myself for my benefit - regardless if she comes back or not. I guess my system, which was to work very hard and spend the rest of my time with the kids, isn't working. I depended on her for our social life and for keeping the family together as a unit. She has nothing to do with my business, nor does she do any of the household accounting. When she "checked out" earlier this year a lot of things have fallen by the wayside. We've dropped the ball with our kids' schooling and to some degree their sports. The housekeeper does more of the work that she used to do.

I'm having a hard time getting out of this funk. Telling me that this is unattractive is not news to me. Who would want to be with me the way I am now - insecure, jealous, a killjoy.

I went back and re-read the seven steps again. One problem I see is that she really doesn't have a significant person to disclose to that she respects. She has cut contact with her parents (that's another sad story) and she is not religious. In March when she told her sister I was surprised to hear that her sister supported me and told her to get her head straight. Maybe she is one to contact. Contacting our shared friends seems too much like a punishment, and airing our dirty laundry.

"PLEASE don't take it personally!" Wow. How could I not? She states she has wasted her best years by being with me. I feel like the happiness I see in other older couples will forever be denied to me. Sounds like a pity party for sure!! Have you got any handy mantras for me to help me get through this?


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## land2634 (Jun 7, 2010)

I would say not to worry about "airing the dirty laundry" to friends. Something I've learned is that this is her choice to continue as she is, not yours. All you're doing is letting the truth out to those close to the two of you. If she doesn't want people to know, she could always discontinue the act she doesn't want people to know about. The sooner you contact them, the better. However, I would try to talk with her sister first. That seems to be a good starting point.



scalpel said:


> Thanks for your quick reply T.
> 
> I agree with the idea of changing myself for my benefit - regardless if she comes back or not. I guess my system, which was to work very hard and spend the rest of my time with the kids, isn't working. I depended on her for our social life and for keeping the family together as a unit. She has nothing to do with my business, nor does she do any of the household accounting. When she "checked out" earlier this year a lot of things have fallen by the wayside. We've dropped the ball with our kids' schooling and to some degree their sports. The housekeeper does more of the work that she used to do.
> 
> ...


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks, I think I will.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> "PLEASE don't take it personally!" Wow. How could I not? She states she has wasted her best years by being with me. I feel like the happiness I see in other older couples will forever be denied to me. Sounds like a pity party for sure!! Have you got any handy mantras for me to help me get through this?


Sure - first thing to remember is not to take this personally! In essence, treat your marriage like a sick patient. You may have personal investment here, but at the same time you can approach it objectively. It's the marriage that needs the work. 

Where she is right now is fog bound: an addiction has overtaken her, and she is seeing everything viewed from that point. That means don't trust her judgment, etc: instead, keep focused on the good, the right, the moral, and the necessary. Do what you need to do - regardless of her emotional outbursts, or threats. 

If she does come out of this fog she'll see thing differently. 

In the meantime: strict analysis of symptoms, recurring patterns, past history, etc., etc. 

DO talk to her sister: that's a great resource. 

Get exposure completely ready, and do it fast when the time comes. She will get mad - but she's mad already, no? You can survive that.

Rely on your housekeeper - hire another if you have to! And take some time for yourself. Stay away from the wimminz (two wrongs don't make a right...) - but do something you want, you need to reassess and basically do a reset of your mind. Take a vacation!


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Tanelornpete said:


> Sure - first thing to remember is not to take this personally! In essence, treat your marriage like a sick patient. You may have personal investment here, but at the same time you can approach it objectively. It's the marriage that needs the work.
> 
> Where she is right now is fog bound: an addiction has overtaken her, and she is seeing everything viewed from that point. That means don't trust her judgment, etc: instead, keep focused on the good, the right, the moral, and the necessary. Do what you need to do - regardless of her emotional outbursts, or threats.
> 
> ...


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

scalpel said:


> Tanelornpete said:
> 
> 
> > Sure - first thing to remember is not to take this personally! In essence, treat your marriage like a sick patient. You may have personal investment here, but at the same time you can approach it objectively. It's the marriage that needs the work.
> ...


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I revealed her affair to her sister. Basically she said she wants to stay out of it. Frankly I got confused about exactly what role I wanted her sister to play. I really felt like an idiot on the phone with her and basically told her to forget it.


Actually, you shouldn't worry about what 'role' her sister would play: leave her free to decide for herself. At best, the hope would be that you could request that she talk to her sister, encourage her to come back to the marriage. But don't expect anyone to whom you expose this to play roles - other than to be themself. The point is to open the affair to the light; these people will be (and are being) affected by the affair - and a possible divorce. It is not right that your wife deceive them: your job is to reveal some truth. 

As for the intimacy: this is a good thing - part of plan A, which is where you build up good memories and work on rekindling some fire. Just keep in mind that she is hurting you, and this can drive the love out of you very quickly: you need to be working at recovery in every possible way. 

You can do it.


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## whynot (Apr 16, 2010)

scalpel said:


> It is hard to change with a threat hanging over my head. I don't feel very light and free when I can't trust that my wife doesn't have a foot out the door already. As far as grabbing life by the horns, it's all I can do to keep my business up and running and take care of the kids. The rest of the time I want to crawl in a hole.
> 
> Last week I found a reference to some "sexy texts" that she was receiving. After initially denying it, she admitted that she had been getting texts from someone who "knew she was unhappy in her marriage". She wouldn't tell me who it was, or any of the other details. I now realize that there is no way she could be getting these texts without being involved with this person somehow. No one would send unsolicited texts to a married woman, would they?


Sorry this is happening again. I remember you from last time. I hope I can shed some light on a few things here. I want to reiterate what TP has said and add that you are the only person who can take control of your mindset. You can pull yourself up DESPITE feeling the threat looming. I know its something that seems impossible, but you can do it. You can pull yourself up even if it feels like you cant. You have to look at her behavior and your assumptions about it as her choice, it sucks, but you have to depersonalize it like TP said. If I can do this in the face of physical aand emotional abuse at home, you can do this!

I want to reassure you from my own experience. Your wife can absolutely get sexy msgs without having intimate or even face to face contact with the other person (or even know who they are for that matter other than a picture). Try not to assume that just bc she is txting or meeting for lunch that she is having sex with them. Try to look at it as a symptom of a sick marriage... symptoms suck, but its the bodys way of healing. She is obviously hurting as much as you, just in a different way. You "hole up" as you say, and she is reaching out. Your method of dealing with the sickness is like laying in bed resting to get better and her way is like taking an antibiotic (outside source).

I guess what Im trying to say is if you make yourself stop dwelling on what you think is going on and allow yourself to not feel the threat looming, you can get out of the destructive circle or dance you are in. Change the thinking and change the cycle or circle. 

Bottom line... you are both hurting and scared. I hope this helps add to TP's great thoughts.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and support. I am coming out of my funk a bit. Yesterday I was driving home and I thought about this crazy life and marriage I have. It is so far from what I imagined my life was going to be like. Then I realized that life and marriage are complex. This board has opened my eyes to the fact there are so many people out there in my situation. In a way its almost freeing. I can choose a different path and maybe a more fulfilling path for myself and my children than what I had before. Maybe we will make it, maybe we won't. I will always have my wonderful children, and a profession that I enjoy. 

I need to separate my feelings of self worth from her actions, but it's difficult. She says she is acting this way because of how I am. Maybe we are not meant to be together. It's just hard when she devalues the 12 years of memories and good times that we've had.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

i am very sure that NC letter will not work.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

lobokies said:


> i am very sure that NC letter will not work.


Why not?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

i read many experiences of affair which showed that NC letter worked beyond expectation.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

And you beleive that because it sometimes works beyond what you expect, this is a bad thing?


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

NC depends on the cheaters. if they still cant keep away from OM/OW, this will not work. and seems like scalpel wife will not keep away to other guys.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

lobokies said:


> NC depends on the cheaters. if they still cant keep away from OM/OW, this will not work. and seems like scalpel wife will not keep away to other guys.


Actually, No Contact is dependent upon the desire of both spouses to begin work on the marriage. A person who is willing to write a No Contact letter to their lover, and then give that letter to their spouse, who then reads it for content, and then mails that letter (the cheater does NOT send the letter) is a person who is ending the affair. They are no longer cheating. The purpose of the No Contact letter is to effectively cut off any hope of re-establishing the relationship (it is worded in such a way as to sever ties). That is why we offer sample letters as a guideline.

It is an extremely effective tool. 

It is part of three non-negotiable conditions that the loyal spouse offers to the cheater as grounds for re-establishing the marriage. 

It cannot effectively be used without the other two conditions.

Moreover, it is no guarantee that cheating may not occur in the future. _Nothing_ can guarantee that - for ANY one. But is is an end to the current affair. 

How the problems in the marriage are addressed once that affair ends is the solution to the affair trouble.

Moreover, the problem is NEVER that a person "can't" stay away from the Other Person. The problem is that sometimes people WILL not. Can't is not a possibility. And in nearly every case I've seen, the reason for a repeat is because the original troubles within the marriage have not been solved. As long as the trouble (whatever it is) remains, the possibility of choosing an affair as a solution remains.

So if you've seen No Contact fail - look a little deeper. It is most likely the case that one or two of the OTHER conditions have not been applied (hence the reason we call them 'non-negotiable').

Either that, or the No Contact letter was actually a 'we'd better stop for a while - things are heating up' letter. Hence the reason the Loyal spouse, and not the cheater, mail the letter.

In any event, this does not answer my question: you wrote



> i read many experiences of affair which showed that NC letter worked beyond expectation.


The expectation of a no contact letter is that it results in 'no' contact. What is _beyond_ 'no' contact - never any contact? I'd be curious to hear of an example of a no contact letter that went beyond ending contact and instead resulted in 'never having been any contact'. Seems completely impossible to me.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

scalpel said:


> Thanks for the thoughts.
> I revealed her affair to her sister. Basically she said she wants to stay out of it. Frankly I got confused about exactly what role I wanted her sister to play. I really felt like an idiot on the phone with her and basically told her to forget it..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The sister's reaction isn't surprising. This marriage is you and your wife's business and it's your job to stand up and fix it yourselves, no one can do it for you. It's not the sister's job to affect your wife's thought process, if you want to work it out you'll have to do it on your own merit. 

Plus the sister might not want to be placed in an awkward situation. It's not really fair to expect her to. And really, she might have already known about the other guy(s) but felt it was your wife's obligation to tell you about it, not hers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Its been about ten days since I found out she was cheating again. I don't know the extent, or who the other guy is. We have had any meaningful conversation about it since I told her I found a single text that only referenced the "sexy texts" to her friend. The friend she confided in was a good friend of ours. I am angry with her too. Now I think I need to gather more information before proceeding. 

It stinks being married to someone who would cheat. I have been dissatisfied with our marriage, but I never cheated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

so what is exactly your next plan...?


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

I don't have a clear plan. What I don't want to do is stew over this and become a miserable mess. Im concerned that I am too passive about this. Im working on reducing my love busters with her. Meanwhile there's this distrust and lack of communication hanging over what's left of this marriage. It's easy to say "improve yourself, make yourself the man she always wanted", but Im over here feeling like I lost an arm. We were moving down the road together and now she has decided to go alone without me.

I read this board to see how others have dealt with this loss. But pulling myself (and her) out of this funk with the reward being staying with her and always wondering if Im good enough for her is not attractive. I can't see that far into the future right now. 

Thanks for everyone's constructive comments. 

Is it wise to put attacking device on her car?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I assume you mean "a tracking device". An attacking device would attack her car. LOL


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

just google the words: Spark Nano. They use a sim card inside the device that is from T Mobile. Make sure T Mobile have good coverage in your area. They don't tell you this when you purchase it. It's expensive but most likely you will get your answers in less than 2 weeks.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for the information. They have a gps tracker that doesn't give real-time information, but also doesn't have a monthly fee. I wonder if that would work as well.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

they would all work except the spark nano gives you live info on the net but you do have to recharge it every 2-3 days. The ones that are not with a real time info you have to take them out of the car physically and check the info on your computer and them put them back. I decided to go with the Spark Nano and I don't regret it.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Why do you want to put a tracking device on her car? 

_You are already aware of infidelity_ - the task now has moved beyond needing proof. You have better things you can do with your time! My advice is that you don't get stuck spinning your wheels following her around while she goes about having an affair. You can't stop it that way, nor can you work on recovering your marriage by dwelling on finding some sort of evidence that will make her admit or make her stop. Just won't happen.

Instead, work on you, and on the steps you should be doing to end the affair! Don't chase phantasms while your marriage falls apart around you!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Scalpel~

I get the distinct impression that you are casting about, looking for something "to do" but not really wanting to do what you know you NEED to do in order to fix this. So let me remind you of your plan. 

There are seven steps to ending an affair. Each step builds upon the other, and you can not skip one. The steps are: 

*#1--Gather Evidence*. This is not so you can show the evidence to your spouse and "make" them confess. One lady here on this forum had dead proof and her ex (now) never did admit it--he divorced her and denied it to the end and is still with OW! I know of another person who's wife was a realtor and she met her lover in an house she was supposed to be showing. He literally caught them IN THE ACT and as she put her clothes on she said, "It's not what it looks like." So you can gather evidence until you are blue in the face, but it won't "make" the disloyal admit it. This evidence is for you--so you know that you can trust your gut instinct. Now scalpel, YOU already know that your wife is cheating again. You've already done this step so you don't need more evidence. Time to move to step #2. 

*# 2 Confront*. Go to the disloyal directly and tell them to their face that you know about the affair and have evidence in a safe place that proves it's real irrefutably. Don't tell them where it is or what it is necessarily, just make the statement that you know about it. Then state right out loud that in order for the marriage to work there can not be infidelity and ask them point blank to end the affair.

So, scalpel, your plan now is not to cast about, doing bit of step #1 and step #5 and some of #7. You can't pick and choose what you "feel like" doing, just as a patient who needs surgery can not pick some of the tests, not the x-rays, pick ether and not more modern anesthetics, and then tell you that you can only operate on their left arm. If the issue is on their right leg, then there are steps that must be taken...in order. They HAVE TO have all the test. They have to have x-rays. They need to use an anesthetic that doesn't make them violently ill afterward. They HAVE TO let you operate on the right side! 

Does that make sense. If you want a chance for your marriage to be happy and emotionally healthy for both of you, you need to do the steps, in order. And now you are at step 2. So the plan is to arrange a time as soon as possible to talk to your wife directly, tell her you KNOW she is having an affair again, tell her this is the second time in X years and you will not be with a spouse who will not give you 100% of her affection and loyalty, and ask her point blank if she is willing to end all contact right now and work with you to fix the marriage. 

Just for discussion, here are the rest of the steps:

*#3 Disclose.* If the disloyal either refuses to end the affair, the next step is to disclose the affair to ONE very respected authority whom the disloyal is likely to look up to and listen to...someone who is likely to be pro-marriage and tell the disloyal that having an affair is not acceptable.

*#4 Exposure.* If the disloyal hardens their heart and refuses to end it, the next step is to expose the affair to those who will likely be affected by a potential divorce. The idea behind exposure is not to drag your disloyal spouse's name and reputation through the mud (their ACTIONS are doing that!) but rather to refuse to keep the affair a "secret." The loyal spouse should contact their own family (parents and siblings), the disloyal's parents and siblings, their church or place of worship, some of the loyal spouse's co-workers, some of the disloyal spouse's co-workers, the loyal spouse's employer, the disloyal spouse's co-workers, and the other person's spouse and inform them that the disloyal spouse is having an affair, that it is serious, that the marriage is in trouble, and ask for help. 

*#5 Carrot & Stick*. In this phase you focus on two things: work on yourself to be the person you once were who attracted your spouse again AND allow your disloyal to experience the natural consequences of their choices.

*#6 NO CONTACT*. In this step you write the disloyal a letter and explain that you love them, admit the things you did to contribute to the affair, indicate what you're doing to end those things, and then say that unless they end ALL contact with the OP and never, EVER contacts the OP again, you need to end all contact with the disloyal. The idea behind this step is to give them a more realistic taste of what divorce could be like--to not have you in their life to meet ANY needs! 

*#7 Legal Separation*. To be blunt, most affairs die a natural death within two years, so if a loyal spouse can stall for that amount of time, there is a good chance that the disloyal spouse would at least consider returning. Thus, as a tactic that will both stall the legal process of divorce and protect both the family assets and the loyal spouse and children, we would recommend a legal separation and suggest a minimum of one year legal separation.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

I think AC is referring to me in Step 1. I admit, I got too long hung around that phase looking for admission from him. But now that is all over I can see that he was REALLY deep into the fog(something similar to Help239's wife).

However listen to her and TP. They have some really good advice on this forum.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Yep you're right, notready, I was thinking of you! But I'm glad you can see now that moving onto the next steps (Confront-disclose-expose-Carrot & Stick-No Contact) are the way to cut THROUGH the fog (aka Disloyal Dizziness) and shine a light in there. They still may not come around and they may be too stubborn and prideful to admit they were wrong or face their own issues--but at least you did your part, which is shining that light!


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

I got sort of past the exposure phase. If only I did not have that visa issue that forced me to leave the US who knows maybe I could have done something more. But I did and still do try to work on myself and I can only assume what were the real reasons he was unhappy(he never really gave me concrete reason, he would not even discuss the affair)

But if it ever came to reconciling with him in the future one of my MUST HAVES will be marriage councelling/coaching what you and Tanelornpete provide or what Marriage Builders offers.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks everyone. 

I do know that she has stepped across the line again with the texts. I guess I don't need additional information. I would like to know who it is because I don't want to be backslapping one of my friends or acquaintances at a party while he's sending vulgar texts to my wife. The first time I found out it was with a man she found on Ashley Madison. At least it was a stranger. Maybe I should let go of trying to figure out the details. Am I done with "gathering evidence"? Affaircare thinks so. 

I have had one conversation with her about the texts but I wasn't forceful with her that I wanted them to stop. I need to have another conversation with her. I meant to Monday, but then we were enjoying ourselves so much I didn't want to ruin it. She has been very affectionate and nice with me all week. Is she coming back, or trying to throw me off the scent?

My disclosure to her sister was a failure. I didn't ask her to stand up for me after she said "it's YOUR marriage, figure it out." no one but my therapist supports me in this. Meanwhile she has at least one friend who knows she is getting these texts, and maybe more. I suspect her friend may have set her up with this guy in the way she said someone found out I was unhappy in my marriage. I wish I had a closer set of friends. The one I did reach out to in general terms hasn't made contact with me since I told him my wife and I are having problems. In the suburbs sometimes there's the sense that affairs and divorce a communicable disease. Also we have a group of friends we frequently see, so maybe everyone wants deniability if things turn out bad. This board has been a great outlet for me. Thanks for listening and trying to help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

You are right about divorce being communicable disease. I am in the same boat as you. I have told people and they first say they support you but then there are nowhere to be found. So you are not alone on that one.

Definitely have that one more conversation with her and spell out clearly your boundries. She needs to hear that, sometimes maybe few times until she gets it.


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## land2634 (Jun 7, 2010)

My advice is to not wait to have the conversation with your wife. I did, and all it did was make it harder. You can go back and read my story and see how hesitant I was to say anything, and all I did was allow her to double-dip and prepare herself to leave on HER terms without ever having to give it a second thought. You need to do this ASAP, no matter how hard it seems. If she leaves, she leaves. If she's willing to leave over you saying you won't accept sharing her with another man, then she's already considering leaving anyways. It will give you the clearest path possible to working toward resolution.


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## cmf (May 21, 2010)

I have been reading your thread and had to comment on the communicable disease comment. It is really true, no one really tells you about it until you go through it.
For women, no one tells you that your married friends start looking at you like you are suddenly going to steal their husbands or plant the idea of infidelity in their heads.
One of my divorced friends clued me in on all of it recently. None of my married friends have kept up with me since my separation- just family, single and divorced friends. It's really sad.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

CMF I'm sorry to hear about that. Friends show their true colors when you are down, but maybe we both need to realize they are in marriages too. Maybe on some level they are trying their best to protect their marriages the best way they know how. I know I wish my wife wasnt hanging out with a woman separated from her husband and another considering leaving hers. People have given me some good advice on this board. I can't count on too much support from friends. 

Going through this rocky path in my marriage and learning about here affair is like learning a new skill. I never knew how to catch a cheater. Never thought about what i was willing to accept in my spouse. I thought those things were for other people. Now I know unfortunately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TooTired (Jul 26, 2010)

Ever since my H cheated, I must admit that I do look at all my friends differently. Sometimes I wonder, maybe he will try his luck with her next. Not that they have done anything wrong it's just the way my mind works after what he did to me. 
I think it makes you realize how vulnerable your marriage can be, and like you said suddenly alot of my friends are now " acquaintances" . Hurts all the way around.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

I told one of my married friends today about friends avoiding me and she thinks it is because they don't know how to behave around me especially the ones that have been mutual friends. That really hit me hard too. In the meantime my X is living in a different country, could careless about the mutual friends, hanging out with his cougar and making all new friends who will probably not even know that he was married. Life is so unfair. I also look at most of them differently. 

But back to the topic of scalpel's wife. Talk to her NOW and make sure she clearly understands what you are saying because these waywards try to play with your mind later saying: Oh no that's not what you said or how you said it. Because later if she leaves you, your mind will be at peace knowing you tried to do it all. It will be difficult but from that angle your mind will be at peace.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for everyone's replies. I have a update. 

I had the confrontation talk today. I told her I needed more information about her latest EA ( the texting). She wouldn't tell me anything substantial. She claims it was a few flirty texts from a guy she met at the gym. She refuses to tell me who it is. She says it's over so why go over it. Throughout the whole conversation she turned it around on me like I was being unreasonable. Like I couldn't let it go and I enjoyed hurting her. 

How do we have this conversation without me assuming the role of the scolding parent?

I stuck to my guns that I wanted complete honesty in our marriage. That I wouldn't share her with anyone else. She stormed off with her phone. 

No one claimed that the seven steps were easy, but I feel like I screw up on alll of them! Things between us have been so good this week- better intimacy, more affection. Now I've gone and screwed it up. At least that was her message to me today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Its happens, the good thing is you are both trying. Is she aware that this is the healing process for you and it sucks for her cause you understand "no one like to talk about the bad thing they have done? 
Now go give her some of that affecttion, intimacy, and good conversation. You can always take the subject of cheating on another day. 
It helps when you warn them. I give my wife a big kiss before I leave for work and let them know that I need {question} can we talk this evening,do this while your running out the door, then she will call you and you can reassure her that you are healing and you understand and want to give her time to think, before dinner this evening. 
Its seems that the wayward spouse has a hard time to do the tell all stuff. It takes time but as long as she not going any where then 
take your time, just make sure she knows you need this info to heal.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

scalpel said:


> She says she is acting this way because of how I am.


What a bunch of hogwash. PLEASE tell me you didn't BELIEVE this wayward fog BS.

Come on. SHE CHEATED. SHE CONTINUES TO CHEAT.

Why on earth should you accept responsbility for THAT?

Until you're ready to walk away, she will contine to OWN YOU.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

scalpel said:


> No one claimed that the seven steps were easy, but I feel like I screw up on alll of them! Things between us have been so good this week- better intimacy, more affection. Now I've gone and screwed it up. At least that was her message to me today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's a secret about women, IMO - at least women who cheat. If things are going badly, if you're about to be caught doing the cheating...what do you do?

You become SEXY. That way, your husband, whose top Emotional Need is often SEX, will forget about all the other crap you're doing, as long as you give him sex.

So you get him to shut up by putting out.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

scalpel said:


> Thanks for everyone's replies. I have a update.
> 
> I had the confrontation talk today. I told her I needed more information about her latest EA ( the texting). She wouldn't tell me anything substantial. She claims it was a few flirty texts from a guy she met at the gym. She refuses to tell me who it is. She says it's over so why go over it. Throughout the whole conversation she turned it around on me like I was being unreasonable. Like I couldn't let it go and I enjoyed hurting her.
> 
> ...


Lurking here from the sex bb on TAM and have been in both roles here (the "scolding parent" and the txting wife). My husband had an EA with a woman he had previously been sexual with. He still after years not admit what he did was wrong (all the while he said no to every advance for sex from me, but when he wanted sex he seduced me). When I confronted him about having crossed the line bad mouthing her husband and me and continuing their conversations regardless of how both spouses felt, he went into a tirade... I was the wrong doer, I was being unreasonable, I was psychotic for even imagining they were doing anything inappropriate. It was very hurtful and I lost my trust in him completely as a result of him defending her to the point he broke his hand punching a door frame over her... it was sad actually.

Anyway, so I know it doesnt make any sense when they turn the tables or deny everything or just parts. 

What I am confused about here is it seems you are writing alot of assumptions rather than what you know and its making you feel worse about it. You will cause yourself alot less stress about this if you stick ONLY to the facts that you know about. You can assume yourself into insanity and all it will get you is insanity. 

The flip side that I know about is txting/flirting. My husband wont do it at all and with him saying no to every attempt of mine to seek out kisses, cuddles, communication and sex.... I turned to annonymous online friendships. They went nowhere and never met them... we just wrote about fantasies or sent little "hows your day" txts bc our spouses wouldnt do those things, thinking they werent important. Do you do flirty little sex txts with your wife? If not, I would start. Since things seem to look as if they are going a little bit better, jump in with both feet and do those things that she was seeking elsewhere. I demanded 1 romantic txt from my husband... takes all of a minute to write (if that) and he has been fighting it for years (but emailing this ex sex friend).... anyway, I said I was going to go to a mediator bc I was tired of asking for tiny little concessions and hitting a wall every time. His response was (after a little stab at me being there alone) to step up and start doing the stupid txt. Now, I dont even appreciate them bc it had to be under threat of me leaving him... totally conditional... something as small as a nice txt like your smile brightens my day cant wait to see it when I get home. Period, thats it. How long did that take? If he had time to email this other woman details about our relationship... he has time to do this. 

I dont want your initiative to be for nothing like my husbands, bc he waited too long. His stupid stubborness made him tell himself I was in the wrong and he wa sin the right and he didnt need to do anything for too long... you look as if you are allowing your assumptions to become roadblocks for you. Stop thinking about it and just go with the good times you are having and since you know your wife likes those flirty txts, do them with her so she doesnt go elsewhere anymore! Just my 2 cents from a view from both sides of this ugly coin. Hope this helps you out.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for everyone's replies. She never has asked for sexy texts, nor does she send them to me. Maybe she wants them - I don't know. I am not opposed.

Talked to her again this morning asking her more about the man who sent her the texts. She says it was just "flirty" texts and that I would embarass myself and her by a no contact letter. If it's so innocent and minor, why won't she tell me any more of the details and let me decide? Her best friend knows more than me and I think that's wrong.

She continues to ask "why can't you get over this" and says its all in my head. I said it probably is all in my head, why don't you tell me a bit more to ease my mind. She isn't budging an inch. This makes me think it's someone I know, and/or it is continuing. Either they do or did have a physical relationship and the texts are just a part of the action, or he's a creep that is trolling around for married women. What kind of sub-human sends suggestive texts to a married woman (makes me think she is more willing in this than she admits).

It makes me sick I work to pay for her to go to the gym to get hit on or to find a lover. Her last words today were "I can't go on like this". Am I making too much of this?


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## Wisp (Jul 17, 2010)

Do yourself a big favour:

Stand in front of a mirror and look at yourself, are you such a fool that you do not know what is going on or are you to scared to acknowledge that she has been or is cheating on you. 

Until you can prove the has she IS cheating on you 


You have two options, deal with it or pretend nothing is happening. For both you have lost your wife and it is time for you to man up. 

You tell your wife in the nicest most pleasant controlled way that you know she is in an affair and she stops it NOW , writes the No Contact letter and cease to have anything to do with him. You require full disclosure. You do not reveal what you know or do not know , all that is certain is she is cheating and she knows this. 

For you she is going to lie, she is going to blame you, she may even storm out of the house. 

You get hold of her phone and identify the source of the text messages. You spy on her, if you can afford it you hire a PI, you pull out all stops to save your marriage or you give her divorce papers. Both options are equally effective. 

Whatever happens stop talking take the lead and hold the line do not blink.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Check the phone records to get the numbers and backtrace them. Install a keylogger on her computer. Cancel the gym membership if you know for sure she's going there to get hit on. Let her pay for it. Hire someone to follow her for a week.

Get your answers/proof. Cheaters LIE. And lie WELL. Everything she is doing is textbook Affair Script - they all do it, say the same things, try to make you feel crazy or guilty.

Get your proof. Then we can tell you what to do next.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Remember, we told you that one lady here on the forum, who came forward and volunteered her name--notreadytoquit--had proof in her hands that is was adultery, and her exH denied it to the end. He divorced her and left and everything, but when confronted with the evidence and the truth, he denied it. A disloyal denying it is par for the course, so that is what we EXPECTED. Yes, we *hoped* that telling her you knew and asking her right then and there to stop might be enough to encourage her to do the right thing...but didn't expect it. 

So scapel, from this point forward I want you to remember two things: 

1) The person who is in your wife's skin is not the woman you've known for all these years; she does not have the character qualities you've known in your wife and whereas your wife might have responded to some reason and made some sense, this person does not. I personally call this person the Evil Twin just to have a name for the phenomena, because it looks like her, sounds like her, smells like her but she's got the goatee! It's not her! So stop expecting the Evil Twin to think logically and make sense. The sooner you can accept this the easier it will be for you. 

2) The Evil Twin will not think of you, think of the children or think of who she is hurting because the way the Evil Twin thinks is skewed by the addiction to the fun of the affair. Now, scalpel, you are a doctor, so you must have at least a minimal understanding about drug addiction and the way it affects a person's ability to make decisions. In a way, "love" has some similar chemical reactions--for layman's terms look at this article "The Chemistry of Love." The Evil Twin is addicted to the amphetamine and norepinephrine released in her brain from the infatuation of the affair, and thus her decisions are based on feeding that addiction--not on the cost or who she's hurting...just like any other addict. We call this kind of thinking "Disloyal Dizziness" because on the occasion she'll say something that is so bizarre and nonsensical you'll say to yourself, "Wait a minute! Do you just HEAR what you said?"  So do not depend on your wife to "make sense" while she is addicted. Before she'll ever start making sense again, she'll have to go through withdrawal. 

....and can you sort of see now why she says you aren't "fun"? The OM gives her the brain chemistry "zing" and you don't--because the OM doesn't also have to put up with kids, bills, mortgages and her antics...you do and by being dependable and steady you're also not giving her the "zing." It's a hard concept to communicate but that's what she means...compared to the thrill and rush of infatuation, good ol' long-term love isn't all that shiny! 

So, scapel, you have not "messed up everything." Bear this in mind: for the intimacy and sex you were having last week to have been "REAL" it would have had to have been her being emotionally open and honest (emotionally intimate) WITH YOU and expressing that in a physical way. I don't think it's possible for someone to be hiding their true self, what they're doing, who they're doing it with...and have it be real intimacy. Okay? When she is having sex with you, you want her to be so in love with you that she is expressing that love physically--not thinking of some other guy as she gets the big O.

************************

P.S. Since you really already know she is having another affair, and you already Confronted her and asked her directly to stop, I agree with finding out as much as you can about the OM, but meanwhile on two step three: Disclose. Who is one person whom she admires--someone she might consider a mentor or an authority like a parent, boss, teacher, pastor/rabbi, or leader? Start to think of ONE person who could explain to her that "flirty" is not honoring her vow to give you 100% of her affection and refusing to stop is not honoring her vow to give you 100% of her loyalty?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The reason I suggested that he get more proof is that he doesn't know to WHOM she is texting. He's afraid it may be a friend, someone he knows. I'd want to know that, too. Therefore, he needs to get that information before exposure, so she doesn't go further underground. Also, if he knows who it is, he can find THAT person's spouse, parents, or siblings to contact, too.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Wow. The latest post really generated a lot of replies.

I do know about the "evil twin" concept and I have seen her! Right now I feel like the bad guy when I have been completely honest with her. It's just very suspicious when she won't tell me any substantial details regarding these texts when I have told her that would put my mind at ease.
If they were as innocuous as she says wouldn't she share them?

Anyhow, what to do. I am gathering more information and should have a report in the next week or so. 

Damn this is hard! Before all of this stuff started happening it was easy to know how to interact with her - I tried to come from a place of repect and love. Now so much of the respect has eroded and the love isn't what I thought it was. I'm trying to keep my chin up, but Lord I'm depressed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Actually, I was talking to AC.

The thing is, from what I can see, scalpel is NOT ready to walk away, is not ok with taking a stand and being ok with either way his spouse chooses.

Disclosure isn't for getting remorse. It is not for forcing your spouse to do anything. It is to shed light on the bad activities so that the cheating spouse's important people learn about it and (hopefully) let her know they are NOT happy. If the cheating spouse then decides to continue cheating, well, it makes your decision to leave easier - it's like one last opportunity before you DO set the final boundary.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

scalpel said:


> She isn't budging an inch. This makes me think it's someone I know, and/or it is continuing. Either they do or did have a physical relationship and the texts are just a part of the action, or he's a creep that is trolling around for married women. What kind of sub-human sends suggestive texts to a married woman (makes me think she is more willing in this than she admits).
> 
> It makes me sick I work to pay for her to go to the gym to get hit on or to find a lover. Her last words today were "I can't go on like this". Am I making too much of this?


Yes, you know as much as you need to know. As I tried to say before, you will drive yourself crazy assuming and filling in blanks that she wont tell you about. You have to let go of the need to know everything, unfortunately. It is very hard when your mind is racing and you can really convince yourself of some pretty seedy things. The fact is... it may be a married man sending her txts! I was txting with several men from AM, only texting... all married. Its "safer" that way bc you wont get a single person ending up with a broken heart someday bc he or she actually believed the affair could become more. If she found them through AM, the chances are high that they/he is married and not wanting to change his status at home (every man stated clearly in the bio that he will not leave his marriage). You should log on and create a page (under a woman's name), its very educational. I now think that more than 70% of married people cheat at some point and in some form. Working women can find someone at work and stay at home moms turn to AM. 

Please stop before you drive yourself crazy and your wife further away.


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## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

Exposure in my case really did not do anything about my now ex H affair to stop. I have found our recently from the now ex H of the OW that she has pretty much coached him to get divorced. When my H pulled out a folder with divorce info in April well, she did the same thing to her now ex H as well just few months earlier. Heck even some identical info on collaborative divorce was given to me and to him.

I think the exposure did bring some shame to him. To this day I have not given him a detailed list of who knows but he has been distancing from friends especially mutual friends. But I must mention one thing: none of those people other than his mother and brother had the guts to approach him and say: Hey what the heck do you think you are doing? As if almost they were afraid of my husband. Unfortunately his family is siding with him now and as they say they are trying to stay out of our business.

I think in my case my H had help with the fact that we lived so far away from all of our friends and family. He is living in CT now and he cannot run into anyone that knows him or me and that helps with carrying on the affair.

But I still think exposure is the right way to go. It may or may not work but unless you try it you will never know. And turnera is right you want to make sure you know who that person is. At first I suspected someone totally different but it turned out to be another co worker. Especially if you suspect to be a friends that also claims to be scalpel's friend.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Just a quick note on a personal level, just sharing my own personal story. 

I too had a husband (now my ex) who cheated on me. For years I brushed it off as "he has a flirty kind of personality" but when I got a phone call from a VERY expensive hotel that I had never been too telling me that I left my nightie there--I had the proof in my face with the nightie and the receipt that it was a PA. 

I too have walked the steps I ask you to walk. I've done them and in my case you can see, my (ex)H chose to divorce me rather than admit his affair and work on himself. Like you, scalpel, and the other folks who post, I hesitated about exposure because he had ground it into our head that this was private, it wasn't anyone else's business, etc. Like you, scalpel, I hesitated but finally found the courage to expose, and when I did I was FLOORED to find out he had been telling everyone (our friends, neighbors and family) that I was abusive, controlling, angry, and possibly mentally ill!!  The *truth* was that he was actually diagnosed with a mental illness and was arrested for domestic violence, AND he was having an affair! Facts that he conveniently "forgot" to mention because he didn't think it was their business!  

So I've walked in your shoes. I know how scary this can be and I also know that even if you did everything exactly right there is still no guarantee it will save your marriage. What I do believe, personally and as I work at it with couples, is that from my experience this gives you the mostly likely chance to save your marriage and if your spouse will not change and will not grow, it definitely saves YOU. You will recover--and the hope is that your spouse will also recover with you and rebuild a new, transparent, intimate marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Another thing that it does - and I consider this the MOST important thing - is that it at least partially restores your self-esteem, which has been destroyed by learning that your loved one can do this to you. Time and time again, I've seen posters say that, once they made the affair public, they felt they restored some sense of control over their lives. And IMO that's essential for the BS to be able to stop being the clingy spouse begging their spouse to choose them over the OW/OM.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Toolate: I can't understand why you are posting here. My wife's first affair was through AM. I find that website vile and those who use it pathetic. 

It seems that opinions around here are mixed as to whether I need more information or I have what I need. You are right that I am am not ready to walk away. I can't make it on my own with four kids and not much non-paid support. My intuition tells me this is much more than a few texts, but I'm not sure. I do wish I knew. Regardless, she has another man in her life when I expect fidelity. Knowing the details could help me get off the fence. 

I don't know what to do, and to many on these boards that is seen as waffling. It's complicated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Knowledge is power.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

scalpel said:


> It seems that opinions around here are mixed as to whether I need more information or I have what I need.
> ... I do wish I knew. Regardless, she has another man in her life when I expect fidelity. Knowing the details could help me get off the fence.


I agree with turnera that knowledge is power. The more you know (such as his name, his wife's name, do they work together, etc.) the more effectively you can combat the affair and expose it to the right people. But you also do know enough to assure yourself that it's not you "making a mountain out of a molehill" nor is it all "in your head." She may--probably WILL--accuse you of that and act as if you have "trust issues" :bsflag: but you do have enough information to know that is not the case. 

Next, you also do have enough information to move to the next step of disclosing to one person of authority--someone whom she admires and might listen to. Again I mention this might be her parent, her boss, her pastor or religious leader, or a teacher/mentor. Maybe it's that lady she's been friends with since 2nd grade who's a strong Christian and married for 25 years! She herself has said they were "flirty" messages, so she's giving some of her affection to another man; and although you've asked her to stop she is putting her loyalty to the OM's "friendship" ahead of loyalty to her spouse. Thus it DEFINITELY fits the definition of being unfaithful (aka "NOT giving 100% of your affection and loyalty to your spouse to whom you promised it with your wedding vows") even by her own admission! Thus, you do have enough information to move to step #3. 

Does that make sense? It's good to know as much as you possibly can, but it's not reasonable to just let the affair continue when you know enough to take action to stop it. Thus, I do encourage you to do BOTH actions: find someone to whom you can disclose this latest infidelity and proceed with that. Don't let the affair continue and become entrenched while you sit back and worry. But simultaneously, continue the search for more information. 

In our book, we do have a whole section on doing low-tech, practical tips for catching a cheater. Since the cheating spouse is lying, you don't usually need software and GPS devices to catch them--just some common sense and tracking the lies they told then catching them when they contradict themselves! For example, keep a journal of your spouse’s reported activities. Write down the times, dates, places, other people involved, excuses given, etc. Your journal will become invaluable as you compare what’s said with phone bills, credit card statements, atm withdrawals, talk to other people, etc. A cheating spouse is likely to change his or her story, or question your memory, so keeping a record of everything is critical. Using even low-tech techniques like a journal, comparing that to bank withdrawals or ATM receipts, checking against your cellphone bill, or showing up at her work unexpectedly in the middle of the to take her to lunch...you will eventually find the information you want. 



> You are right that I am am not ready to walk away. I can't make it on my own with four kids and not much non-paid support. My intuition tells me this is much more than a few texts, but I'm not sure.


Let me give you a polite and caring dose of reality. At this time, if you do nothing and don't actively work against this affair, that's EXACTLY where you are heading! Your marriage can not survive an active affair, and if your marriage does not survive that means YOU surviving with four kids by yourself with basically a walkaway wife. Oh she may try to get some custody so she can go for child support, but either way your family is nuked, you pay her to be with another man and not have your children with you, and by your own admission "you can make it on your own with four kids." 

If you continue to do nothing, that is where you'll end up. Your marriage can not survive an active affair. 

So if that is not where you want to end up, you need to get busy. Find the courage and energy within you to be firm but loving, and actively fight the affair like a knight in shining armor fighting a dragon! Get in there and win your wife! For yourself, for your kids...for your WIFE!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Calling one person right now and asking them to help you is a key step: it validates to you that you DO have a right to be upset; you hopefully get someone on your side before she can spin her fairytale to them about how you're crazy or abusive so she 'had' to find solace somewhere else. And if you're lucky, that person will talk to her and just may wake her up enough to stop.

If you're afraid she'll be mad that you did, just remember, a marriage can survive anger - it can't survive a third person.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for all the good advice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

turnera said:


> ...If you're afraid she'll be mad that you did, just remember, a marriage can survive anger - it can't survive a third person.


 Hmmmmm....this sounds vaguely familiar.  Are you reporting for work now Turnera? LOL :smthumbup:


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

My intuition tells me this latest thing is more seious than she is letting on, but I don't feel sure enough to disclose.

As I mentioned earlier, I did disclose it to her sister, who wanted nothing to do with it. It"s funny, as she has pulled away from marriage and engaged in these affairs she has withdrawn from a lot of her old friends. I feel like these are "my" friends now much more than ours unfortunately. Some of her new friends are much less trustworthy, much less likely to help her make the right decision. 

I doubt she is spreading misinformation amongst our friends, but I've been wrong before obviously.


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## scalpel (Mar 21, 2010)

A little update. I confronted her again about the affair. She denied it all, and won't tell me who is texting her. Says I am paranoid. Standard script I know.

Things are unraveling at the house. Last night she was very frustrated with our 3 year old. I was doing the dishes and I didn't notice she was bothering her. My wife (who was sitting in a chair) kicked her away from her. Hard enough for our daughter to fall down. Of course our daughter immediately began bawling. I tried to get her away from the situation, but my wife followed me upstairs and grabbed her away from me. This is in front of our other children.

Later I told her that was unacceptable behavior. She said she "can't take her anymore". Our daughter has been tough - significant behavior problems. We are trying to get some counseling for her. My wife is a SAHM. She has housekeeping and babysitting help 5-6 days a week. Still she is overwhelmed. She thinks her life should be better, and her leisure time more abundant. Her cheating is her attempt to inject more fun in her life. If we don't resolve these issues we have in our marriage we will be separating in the next 6 months. Last night I thought to myself: can I leave my daughter (and our 10 year old who she also butts heads with) alone with her for days at a time?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If her sister was no help, then you go on and expose it to a wider group. Shed light on the cheating. Let her see how others view her.


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## sharps (Jun 9, 2015)

I would like update,,, as I am going through it


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Zombie thread.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She must have bashed his head in with a frying pan while he was sleeping.


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## tenac (Jun 3, 2015)

sharps said:


> I would like update,,, as I am going through it


Even if the OP was to return after all these years and update the thread, so what?

That doesn't mean your situation will turn out the same way.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Go ahead and start your own thread. There are many people here who would like to help.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She probably ate him and her children. Sheesh! What a goblin!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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