# Sex & Resentment



## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

We've been married over 20 years, 2 teenage children and still attracted to each other. The problem is he isn't happy or content with having sex 4 or 5 times a week. He expects more & extreme. He wants me to do the things he watches in porn on a regular basis or we fight. I've done some things I'm not really comfortable with & painful things to try and keep him satisfied. Now if I'm not doing those things regularly (but still having sex)he tells me I'm selfish, don't care how he feels, sex isn't important to me, etc. Eventually I give in and do what he wants whether I like it or not and I'm starting to really resent him for it. I'm also getting to the point where I don't even want to have sex--even if it isn't extreme because I feel like he'll still complain. I don't want to lose him or break up our family but I don't know how long I'll be able to live like this. He makes it sound like he does without and is mistreated!


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

star said:


> he is not content with 5 times a week? Seriously he needs to come on this board and read some of the mens threads then he will realise just how good he has got it!!


amen to that!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Are you married to someone who posts on this board, per chance? There is a poster here who seems unable or unwilling to understand the damage he is causing by constantly haranguing his wife for more and more extreme sex.

There is a bunch of stuff here to understand. This is a pretty sticky issue.

Issue one. It is YOUR body, and I don't blame you one bit for resenting him for insisting on painful things. It will only get worse if you continue to cave in and do the extreme things he wants. So, step one limit setting. Say no, and ride the ride. Enforce that limit to the end. Maybe some day when trust has been restored, you can explore those uncomfortable things and learn to do them with comfort. But for now, resentment is not what you need to get comfy with these things, if you even want to.

Two you need understand something about men and sex. This has absolutely nothing to do with requiring you to do things you are uncomfortable with. Sex, desire and love are connected. It is important to UNDERSTAND that in the absence of genuine desire, men tend to feel unloved. Now he is killing your desire, so for the time being just UNDERSTAND that and do nothing with the understanding.

I would VERY STRONGLY recommend marriage counseling.

And Marcopoly if you are reading this, if this is not your wife, this is very likely how she feels. She is trying to love you. And you are complaining...

Both of you, whether you are married to each other or just sharing opposite sides of the same issue, GET INTO MARRIAGE COUNSELING.

Good luck.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Are you kidding me? There are people on here who have little to no sex life and are lucky or even happy for that matter to get it when they can. So he wants it more and to the extreme just like in porn, well isn't that something!

HE sounds selfish not you. You're actually doing some of the things he has wanted you to do to please him but yet its just not good enough. :scratchhead:

I will say this, NEVER do something you are not comfortable with. I'm sure you are or have to please him, but you know what, obviously it isn't working because it sounds like its not good enough for him. Its one thing to do something for someone you love, if you don't care for it but that person loves and appreciates you, but it doesn't sound like he does. He has to keep having more and more and to the extreme to satisfy what he thinks he wants and needs. I suggest MC ASAP if he wont go, you go.


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## JustAGirl (Oct 1, 2010)

AgentD said:


> Are you kidding me? There are people on here who have little to no sex life and are lucky or even happy for that matter to get it when they can. So he wants it more and to the extreme just like in porn, well isn't that something!
> 
> HE sounds selfish not you. You're actually doing some of the things he has wanted you to do to please him but yet its just not good enough. :scratchhead:
> 
> I will say this, NEVER do something you are not comfortable with. I'm sure you are or have to please him, but you know what, obviously it isn't working because it sounds like its not good enough for him. Its one thing to do something for someone you love, if you don't care for it but that person loves and appreciates you, but it doesn't sound like he does. He has to keep having more and more and to the extreme to satisfy what he thinks he wants and needs. I suggest MC ASAP if he wont go, you go.


amen to this too!


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

So he wants it more and to the extreme like in the porn movies? 

Ok, here is what you do. Tell him you have watched some porn too! Slap the crap out of him and tell him that's how the porn video starts off, then ask him if there are any questions before you proceed with the rest. 

OK, I know I know not helpful, was just trying to lighten things a bit. I do apologize. The intent for you to slap him was because he is acting like an idiot! I'm not really suggesting you do that, of course unless you want too. 

Anyway, I also agree with looking into some counseling as well. Even from a guy, I have watched my share of porn, but I would never suggest my wife to do something she wasn't comfortable with.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Trey, you may have hit on it! She takes out the biggest strap on she can find and tells him that the movie she watched showed a guy taking it without any lube!


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Trey, you may have hit on it! She takes out the biggest strap on she can find and tells him that the movie she watched showed a guy taking it without any lube!


BINGO! 

rut roh, just thought about the possibility of him liking it! Whoa! Well now that wouldn't be productive. 

To the OP how do you think he would feel or what would he do if you were to really voice how you feel about all of this to him? Would he get mad? Shut down? What would he do?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I also read your other post on "husbands focus!" I'm sorry but I thought this post was bad, the other one is too. I dislike the situation you're in all the way around. I suggest MC and maybe even family counseling ASAP! I do mean ASAP.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

4 or 5 times a week? Cripes some of us would be happy with 4 or 5 times a month.

I agree with the others, he seems darn selfish and you should get some help!


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

he is being selfish and not taking your feelings into consideration. no loving partner should ever try to force or coerce their partner into doing things they dont want to do, ever.


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## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

We've actually been to counseling but I think we're way past that. He managed to convince the counselor he's not asking for much. Bad situation all around is how I'm feeling....he's always angry around the kids, the more he demands extreme sex the less I want to have ANY SEX which leads to an even bigger fight. Maybe it's my fault for doing some of those things for him in the first place.....now he expects them or I'm depriving him. This argument is never-ending battle...his response is "just do what I'm asking you to and it won't be a battle."


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

"This argument is never-ending battle...his response is "just do what I'm asking you to and it won't be a battle." 

And it will more than likely be a never ending battle until either, he gets some serious help and does a complete change, or you leave. 

His response is typical of someone who wants THEIR way. He isn't thinking about your wants, needs or feelings at all! His anger is a problem as well. BUT, if this is how you choose to live and how you choose for your kids to live and have them learn this, then I dunno what else to say.


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## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

That's just it--I don't want to live this way or for my kids to live this way. I just don't know how to fix it  I don't know what to say or do to make him realize  He tells me I'm not thinking about his wants, needs and feelings at all because it doesn't matter to me. Then in the next breath tells me it's just something he likes but doesn't have to have and I blow it all out of proportion. I want to make it better I just need help.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I could not live like that, he would have a lump on his head and, a$$ would be out the door, nor would I continue to subject my kids to that kind of anger or myself to that kind of demanding mess, but that's just me. 

So you've been to counseling and he has them fooled by making it come across as he isn't asking for much. So whats your next move then? Maybe you could try IC for yourself. You need some counseling just you, so you can tell your side, since he had another counselor convinced, then maybe they can help you more.

It almost comes across as he has broken you down. He has you where he wants you. Completely dependent on him, so you will feel like crap if you don't do what he asks of you because its what HE wants. I'm tellin ya, if you had more self esteem, I bet you wouldn't put up with this mess.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

"I don't want to live this way or for my kids to live this way. I just don't know how to fix it."

Bottom line, you either will continue to live this way with your kids, or you will get out of the situation. YOU can't fix it, no matter how much you want to. The reason for that is, you can't fix him! HE has to want to change and stop some of his behaviors. If he doesn't want to change and get some help, etc, then this is probably the way your life will be until one decides to leave.


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## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

Is it possible that I've caused this by doing the things he asked in the first place? Even if I didn't want to? He tells me he is HAPPY?! How can he be happy but tell me I don't care about his needs, I'm taking things he likes from him just to "show him" I can, that he's down because he can't get anything to go his way, if only I still liked sex with him he'd have it made, that I don't have to and I don't worry about it because that's just the way it is, on and on and on.............


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

He's just manipulating you with whatever method works to get you to do whatever it is he wants at the moment.

You do not own his happiness dependent on doing things you are not comfortable doing.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

HBGirl - 4 to 5 times a week? The lucky ba$tard! Like many husbands on here, I'm lucky to get 4-5 times a YEAR!

Anyway, moving on.....I think your husband is being a ****head. However, as a male, I can sort of understand where he is coming from....I'd love my wife to massage my prostate...I havent a hope in hell because she doesnt even do oral (give)!

Are there any of these 'extreme' things that you sort of enjoy? Maybe you could defuse the situation by telling him that you really enjoy doing 'x' with HIM, and 'y' but you really don't want to do 'z' because it hurts or you just don't like it...so a compromise that YOU are happy with....

Just a thought...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

hbgirl said:


> Is it possible that I've caused this by doing the things he asked in the first place? Even if I didn't want to? He tells me he is HAPPY?! How can he be happy but tell me I don't care about his needs, I'm taking things he likes from him just to "show him" I can, that he's down because he can't get anything to go his way, if only I still liked sex with him he'd have it made, that I don't have to and I don't worry about it because that's just the way it is, on and on and on.............


Manipulative son of a *****.


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## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

Update--same old, same old. NOW it's not all about the extreme sex it's that I won't do ANYTHING with him. If it's really that I don't do anything with him then why is this the only time I hear about it. I feel like I do so much more for him than most wives because I "choose" to, because I do love him. I've told him several times what I'm alright with and no matter what it is he wants MORE or ABOVE. It makes me feel like I'll never be good enough & he'll never be satisfied.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

First off...YOU are good enough. Probably better than he deserves at this point. And you're likely very right..he'll never be satisfied. I would suggest reading "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. Might give you some perspective.

You really do need counseling. I would suggest that you go for counseling without him at this point. You need support, and strength.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

What is your next move? I truly believe until this man wakes up and gets some kind of help and comes to the realization of what he is doing to his family this is how things will be for you. 

I also hear you talking out of both sides of your mouth. One minute it seems you are upset with the fact he wants more and more and to the extreme. Then the next you are saying you do so much and you will do the things he loves because you love him. So exactly which is it? Do you want him to back off from wanting it so much and so extreme? Or are you ok with it, if you're ok with and do it because you love him, not sure what the issue is? 

If he makes you feel whatever you do isn't ever gonna be good enough, its because it wont be. He has an "extreme" type of attitude/personality. Like I said, until he sees the light, this is probably how it will be for you.

Bottom line, if you feel its to much, and to the extreme and you don't care for it, then you have control of that. Him whining about it is on him.


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## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

My first move is I'm going to find & read the book "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. Hopefully it will help me understand or know how I can fix this. The issue is if I DON'T do something for one reason or another I go through this hell. Why not appreciate that I DO alot of things that I'm not really comfortable with and be happy when you do get them. Selfish of me I guess.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

hbgirl said:


> My first move is I'm going to find & read the book "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. Hopefully it will help me understand or know how I can fix this. The issue is if I DON'T do something for one reason or another I go through this hell. Why not appreciate that I DO alot of things that I'm not really comfortable with and be happy when you do get them. Selfish of me I guess.


I think that book would be great! That's a good idea. You are not selfish, HE is! He is really taking advantage of someone who goes up, over and beyond.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

...and in my experience behaviour such as this, if not 'controlled' often leads to criminal offences being committed...

In a marriage anything goes providing you are both happy with it. If you feel that what your husband is demanding goes beyond what you are happy with and into possibly more serious territory then you need to speak to him, a doctor, a counsellor or even a police officer from you local Domestic Violence Unit....


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## oldbill43 (Feb 11, 2011)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Trey, you may have hit on it! She takes out the biggest strap on she can find and tells him that the movie she watched showed a guy taking it without any lube!


Haha, this comment has made my day!



hbgirl, as people have mentioned above dont do anything u dont want because you dont want to break up the marriage. Think of your self respect as a human being, also if you continue to accept his ways, you will find your self esteem on the floor before you know it, that will induce another set of problems.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hbgirl said:


> *Is it possible that I've caused this by doing the things he asked in the first place? Even if I didn't want to? *He tells me he is HAPPY?! How can he be happy but tell me I don't care about his needs, I'm taking things he likes from him just to "show him" I can, that he's down because he can't get anything to go his way, if only I still liked sex with him he'd have it made, that I don't have to and I don't worry about it because that's just the way it is, on and on and on.............


 Yes, and no. You didn't CAUSE him to be a selfish a$$hole. But you led him to believe that you would give him everything he wants.

You have no boundaries. Just the way he likes it. Over the years, he has pushed and pushed and pushed on your boundaries and you - like most women - have given in to keep the peace, to keep him happy, to get over your guilt at not being superwoman. And now...you SHOULD be all about him.

My DH was the exact same way because I never said no. We did what he wanted, went where he wanted to go, did 'it' whenever he wanted...I lost all my friends, my family, my sanity because I became his 'savior' - the one person who could 'fix' him and constantly attend to his needs to keep him happy. In the meantime, however, I disappeared. And nearly ended up dead becaues of it.

When I was going to therapy awhile back, my ONLY homework was to tell my DH that I was going to take a couple hours off on a Saturday and just go do something by myself. I could never do it! I tried for over a year and never got the courage. Why? Because in 25 years, any time I tried that, I was met with 'Fine! Just go off and be selfish! I'll just be here doing all the work that has to be done while you're off gallivanting around having fun! But who cares?! YOU sure don't!'

Stuff like that. It taught me to give up my identity, to keep from hearing such crap.

Over the last few years, with the help of these forums, I've learned how to start stepping back, to say 'no, I DON'T want to go with you to the hardware store.' Something as simple as that and it _terrified_ me to say it!

But I did, I forced myself to start asking myself 'what would I like to be doing?' and then start doing it.

It's a slow process, but it makes a huge difference. Now he ASKS me if I want to go with him. Now he doesn't make a fuss if I say no. Now, he actually cooks dinner if he occasionally gets home before I do. He picks up (a little). He folds towels. He rarely gets angry any more.

All because I started standing up for myself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hbgirl said:


> Update--same old, same old. NOW it's not all about the extreme sex it's that I won't do ANYTHING with him. If it's really that I don't do anything with him then why is this the only time I hear about it. I feel like I do so much more for him than most wives because I "choose" to, because I do love him. I've told him several times what I'm alright with and no matter what it is he wants MORE or ABOVE. It makes me feel like I'll never be good enough & he'll never be satisfied.


Why don't you get a posterboard and start keeping track of all the things you do? Do a table, all the stuff you do down the left, and days of the week across the right. Check off each time you do something. Show it to him at the end of the week when you have your discussion of why you will no longer do kinky.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

hbgirl said:


> My first move is I'm going to find & read the book "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. Hopefully it will help me understand or know how I can fix this. The issue is *if I DON'T do something for one reason or another I go through this hell*. Why not appreciate that I DO alot of things that I'm not really comfortable with and be happy when you do get them. Selfish of me I guess.


 It's an outstanding book; I hope you get it today. Most libraries carry it. 

The bolded above is where you have to start changing. 

*If you do something to avoid his wrath...stop doing it.* Plain and simple. Calmly explain why you won't do it - that it goes against what you need as a human being. If he rages, you say I won't be spoken to that way and leave the room. If he follows you, go somewhere and lock the door or go outside and walk away.

You may want to keep your purse and car keys near the door so you can leave on the spot; if you have to go looking for your keys, it gives him a chance to stop you. And he will.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

hbgirl said:


> We've actually been to counseling but I think we're way past that. He managed to convince the counselor he's not asking for much. Bad situation all around is how I'm feeling....he's always angry around the kids, the more he demands extreme sex the less I want to have ANY SEX which leads to an even bigger fight. Maybe it's my fault for doing some of those things for him in the first place.....now he expects them or I'm depriving him. This argument is never-ending battle...his response is "just do what I'm asking you to and it won't be a battle."


What constitutes "extreme"? That means different things to different people. Just curious.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Extreme is anything either partner is uncomfortable with.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

One thing I have learned, is that if you want to have a successful marriage.. At times you need to be able to do things you do not like..

This goes both ways..


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

turnera said:


> Extreme is anything either partner is uncomfortable with.


So for me that would include buying feminine hygiene products, dealing with my brother-in-law, or attending a white sale for the express purpose of holding a purse and carrying the shopping bags. Oh, and having anything pink in the bathroom. I'll inform my wife at once.

But sexually? Hard to know what you're uncomfortable with unless you experiment a little. One person's extreme is another's vanilla.


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## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

With all due respect I'd never expect him to do anything he wasn't comfortable with and "holding a purse".................LOL. He knows exactly what hurts me, what I'm hesitant about and to what degree...doesn't matter.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> But sexually? Hard to know what you're uncomfortable with unless you experiment a little. One person's extreme is another's vanilla.


Spoken like a true male.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

So tell us men, what this man is wanting.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

hbgirl said:


> Update--same old, same old. NOW it's not all about the extreme sex it's that I won't do ANYTHING with him. If it's really that I don't do anything with him then why is this the only time I hear about it. I feel like I do so much more for him than most wives because I "choose" to, because I do love him. I've told him several times what I'm alright with and no matter what it is he wants MORE or ABOVE. It makes me feel like I'll never be good enough & he'll never be satisfied.


I am going to suggest something extreme, stop having sex with him. There is no clear mode of communication than than that. Don't be mean about it, when he ask tell him since he is not happy you have taken the option to stop making him unhappy. 

Sound mean but it is not, it getting his attention because he is like a run away train headed for disaster. Women take a lot for a long time and then shut down or leave you are not at that point yet and you need to avoid going there. 

You say you don't want to break up your family - but yu have become a virtual sex slave to this man. If he does not care about your feeling, he may have fallen out of love with you. How could a man who loves a women take pleasure while she is not happy, think about it. You are holding together a sick situation. Your children are suffering because of the selfishness of one member of the family, your husband. It it fair for one person to be more important than every one else? 

You may think your kids are not effected but kids feel and know more than you think. You cannot possibly emotionally available to them if you are under the rule of a tyrant. You are is a sexually abusive situation. Is this what your children should see? Is this the model of how a woman is treated? 

Who is the adult here? who is taking responsibility? You are so busy taking care of your husbands out sized needs that if you think about it you are not meeting the needs of the most vulnerable members your children. When are you going to be a mother and protect your kids? Your husband has already adversely effecting their live by distressing their mother. 

You husband is likely addicted to porn and his is using you as a live porn act. The man you married is gone, the man you have now is an abusive addict. You are adding and abetting his abuse of you and taking valuable resources from his kids. 

Stop being a live porn act and tell him if he does not get help, it would be better for your kids to separate. You may love him but he does not love you enough not to use you. Be an adult you are not helpless your kids are step up for them.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

If you do reject him, be prepared for more anger and emotional disconnection.. Not only will you face losing him, he may think about cheating..


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> So tell us men, what this man is wanting.


Why? You want to get your rocks off? What difference does it make?


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

I am just wondering what she thinks extreme is.

The difference it could make is that what he wants may not be extreme at all.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Tool said:


> If you do reject him, be prepared for more anger and emotional disconnection.. Not only will you face losing him, he may think about cheating..


I would think at this point its no different than when she does have sex with him. He gets mad regardless, and makes her feel no matter what she does its not good enough. he has dwindled her self esteem down to nothing would be my guess, if she felt some self worth I doubt she would allow this to go on. As far as cheating, he could possibly do that no matter what she did or didn't do.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> I am just wondering what she thinks extreme is.
> 
> The difference it could make is that what he wants may not be extreme at all.


That is the entire point. What SHE is comfortable with and the manner in which he is demanding her breach of her comfort zone is at issue. No one get to tell her what she should and shouldn't be comfortable with. There is no objective measure of extreme.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> So for me that would include buying feminine hygiene products, dealing with my brother-in-law, or attending a white sale for the express purpose of holding a purse and carrying the shopping bags. Oh, and having anything pink in the bathroom. I'll inform my wife at once.
> 
> But sexually? Hard to know what you're uncomfortable with unless you experiment a little. One person's extreme is another's vanilla.


How does what she considers extreme material to anything? If sex is based on mutual satisfaction and not always acting out fantasies from porn how is this material. If it's extreme to her then it's extreme. 

Doing nice things for her does not come any where near pain discomfort for the pleasure of one person unless they are both into S&M. 

How about if your partner wanted to do you in the butt on a regular basis with a large dildo because she had a porn fantasy? Or got into gay porn and wanted to see you get a bf from a man that you picked up in a bar? how about if she got to bondage and wanted to use a whip on you? 

I think woman who are in a situation where the man asks for things she does not want to do she should come up with sexual things for him to do why don't women do that. We are too kind. It is easier to shut down but giving him some of his own medicine might make him more empathetic. 

Can you honestly say that you would do these things? She cooks and cleans for you why should you not do something for her.

Penis oriented sex is a sure way to shut down sex in a marriage or get left. This lady is allowing herself to be abused. She is a human not a live porn actress.
.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Maybe they want her to tell them what is extreme, so they can then turn around and shoot down her feelings and tell her she is being silly or unreasonable.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Tool said:


> If you do reject him, be prepared for more anger and emotional disconnection.. Not only will you face losing him, he may think about cheating..


She should be so lucky. 

Let him cheat just don't have sex with him and make sure he pays the bills. See if he can get some random woman to be a live porn star,. He may have to hire out.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Jamison said:


> Maybe they want her to tell them what is extreme, so they can then turn around and shoot down her feelings and tell her she is being silly or unreasonable.


That thought had crossed my mind. I wonder how that is useful.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> She should be so lucky.
> 
> This is common to say it black mail. If a partner threatens these things then they are gone already let him go, he is not worth the skin he is wrapped in and is more a boy having a tantrum then a man. Besides he is sexually unattractive. .
> 
> Let him cheat just don't have sex with him and make sure he pays the bills. See if he can get some random woman to be a live porn star,. He may have to hire out.


It is also black mail to reject sex to get what she wants. If a Women does that, she is gone already and he should let her go.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> It is also black mail to reject sex to get what she wants. If a Women does that, she is gone already and he should let her go.


Is that what you are reading here? Agenda have we? (Like my yoda speak?)


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> That thought had crossed my mind. I wonder how that is useful.


I had a relationship in College, and she only wanted it missionary. Any other way was too extreme for her. It caused a lot of fights and eventually caused the relationship to end.

I would think most people would think she was being unreasonable.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tool said:


> I am just wondering what she thinks extreme is.
> 
> The difference it could make is that what he wants may not be extreme at all.


 It does not MATTER! If SHE is uncomfortable doing it, she is being harmed.

I'll go so far as to say the normal bedroom scene that 95% of men and women consider normal is not in this discussion, so don't waste time going there.

If HE wants her to do something that he saw in a video and it makes her feel like a hooker or a video actress, then it is too extreme. If he wants more than that, it is HIS obligation to care for her feelings enough to get her to feel SAFE doing that act. Not just tell her if she doesn't do it, she's a bad wife.

Great way to connect.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> I had a relationship in College, and she only wanted it missionary. Any other way was too extreme for her. It caused a lot of fights and eventually caused the relationship to end.
> 
> I would think most people would think she was being unreasonable.


No, not unreasonable. Just not for you. Each person is ENTITLED to their own desires. I would not choose to be her. But she gets to be herself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tool said:


> It is also black mail to reject sex to get what she wants. If a Women does that, she is gone already and he should let her go.


 Have you even read the thread? Her husband is abusive and mean and nasty to her. 

There IS no rejecting 'to get what she wants.'

She's trying to keep her husband without feeling like a piece of meat or blowup doll.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Why? You want to get your rocks off? What difference does it make?


Cheeky woman. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Trust and Verify (Jan 6, 2011)

turnera said:


> If he rages, you say I won't be spoken to that way and leave the room. If he follows you, go somewhere and lock the door or go outside and walk away.
> 
> You may want to keep your purse and car keys near the door so you can leave on the spot; if you have to go looking for your keys, it gives him a chance to stop you. And he will.


Shutting down communication in a marriage is bad advice.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

She has stated he wants it MORE MORE MORE and it keeps getting more EXTREME and wants her to do the things he sees porn. I can see that to an extent, and I have done things myself I've seen in porn movies. HOWEVER, the main points are, it bothers her, he thinks shes not good enough no matter what she does or doesn't do. He basically makes her feel like crap if she doesn't do it! She has another thread too about him being a very angry/controlling person.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Trust and Verify said:


> Shutting down communication in a marriage is bad advice.


Indeed. But that is not what Tunera is suggesting. She is suggesting limit setting. It is perfectly reasonable to have as a personal boundary not tolerating rages.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Indeed. But that is not what Tunera is suggesting. She is suggesting limit setting. It is perfectly reasonable to have as a personal boundary not tolerating rages.


:iagree: Yep, its not about not communicating. Its more about taking a time out from a person who wants to be angry and controlling. She also stated she has tried to talk to him about things but he wont listen.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tool said:


> I had a relationship in College, and she only wanted it missionary. Any other way was too extreme for her. It caused a lot of fights and eventually caused the relationship to end.
> 
> I would think most people would think she was being unreasonable.


You would be wrong.

You were simply not the right match for her. Expecting her to be comfortable with something she clearly wasn't comfortable with is not a loving act.

Men sometimes forget that sex is viewed entirely differently by most women; it comes from a different part in our hearts and our heads than for you. It all starts in that beautiful double standard we're raised with that never seems to go away. And it gets dragged down by many other personal- and family-oriented issues from growing up.

Sex isn't just sex to us. It's not (for many women) just another avenue for fun to be explored fully; it's much deeper and men would be well reminded to see it as such. They'd probably get a lot more if they did.

T/J over.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Trust and Verify said:


> Shutting down communication in a marriage is bad advice.


Not in an ABUSIVE marriage.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Trust and Verify said:


> Shutting down communication in a marriage is bad advice.


I agree but do you think he is communicating? Communication involves two people he checked out of the this relationship and replaced her with a porn addiction, what is there to communicated with. 

Addicts don't listen to "communication" they have the choice to get help for themselves. The people around them have a responsibility not to get caught up in their addiction and make it easy to continue. It called enabling. If she gives into him, that is what she will be doing. 

Besides he will continually require more and more stimulation like all addicts. Next he will want to she she will have to do an animal or do a gang bang. At some point she will have to leave better to do it now before it gets too degrading.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

She needs to remember that when a man is not satisfied in bed, he does not feel loved. And sometimes you need to do things you do not like.

My Wife knows this, and that's why I am fully satisfied.

There are a ton of things I don't like doing, but I do them for my Wife so she is emotionally connected with me.

This goes both ways.

His anger and frustration could very well come from all of this.

But if she will not change for him, im afraid this relationship could be over.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

To the OP, have you looked up the effects of porn in a marriage? Or signs of porn addiction? I looked it up earlier, the things it describes, does describe some of the things you were saying about how your husband is behaving, all the way down to how he is treating you. It talks about how things for some people can turn extreme.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

"She needs to remember that when a man is not satisfied in bed, he does not feel loved."

She has stated that no matter what she does, he was NOT satisfied! She actually is and has been doing the things he has asked of her. Its not like she not doing anything at all that he wants.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Tool said:


> She needs to remember that when a man is not satisfied in bed, he does not feel loved. And sometimes you need to do things you do not like.
> 
> My Wife knows this, and that's why I am fully satisfied.
> 
> ...


Okay, normally I do not get up on my high horse, but these comments have me up there BIG TIME!

I agree, there are things you do in a marriage you might not like because they are things your spouse likes - but this DOES NOT apply to doing things with your body that are repulsive or cause emotional or physical pain to you.

Doing things you don't like to make your spouse happy are taking out the trash, making the bed everyday when you're not a bed maker, those types of things.

Are you suggesting that SHE is responsible for doing WHATEVER he wants in bed because she's his wife? So it's okay if he is into water sports, scat or blood sports - just as long as she keeps him satisfied?

Talk about cave-man, neanderthal thinking.

While I agree that we should "entertain" or "consider" what our spouses need to be satisfied in and out of the bedroom - I would definitely draw a line in the sand if my husband needed to pee on me to get off!


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Just my two cents. 

*If he isn't satisfied with anything she does.
*Makes her feel like shes not good enough, even though she is doing the things he wants her to.
*Is wanting more and more and more extreme stuff. 
*If she is uncomfortable with some of his requests, and he gets angry because of it......

Then yeah, sounds like there is a problem. If he was asking things of her to try and she tried absolutely nothing, then I might could understand his frustration better, but thats not what is happening.

Also, I would think his anger may stem from the fact that it sounds like he can't get his addiction satisfied. That is actually an effect from someone struggling with a porn addiction like that. They aren't satisfied and nothing will ever be good enough for them until they seek help.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Are you suggesting that SHE is responsible for doing WHATEVER he wants in bed because she's his wife? So it's okay if he is into water sports, scat or blood sports - just as long as she keeps him satisfied?


Yup that is what im suggesting. And if she doesn't want to keep him satisfied, she can leave.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> She needs to remember that when a man is not satisfied in bed, he does not feel loved. And sometimes you need to do things you do not like.


I don't think you have been reading this thread.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> Yup that is what im suggesting. And if she doesn't want to keep him satisfied, she can leave.


Aren't you a prince. I feel bad for your wife.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

Why would you feel bad for my Wife? She has zero complaints.

If she did, I would hear about them believe me.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> Why would you feel bad for my Wife? She has zero complaints.
> 
> If she did, I would hear about them believe me.


OP given this guy's handle and what he is saying, I hope you don't take him to heart. I am thinking troll at this point. NO ONE has the right to hurt you physically. Emotionally either but the physical hurt just is more obvious.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

CallaLily said:


> "She needs to remember that when a man is not satisfied in bed, he does not feel loved."
> 
> She has stated that no matter what she does, he was NOT satisfied! She actually is and has been doing the things he has asked of her. Its not like she not doing anything at all that he wants.


Actually she said, she has tried them but doesn't do them all the time.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Aren't you a prince. I feel bad for your wife.


Me too!

I don't mind thinking or trying new things out my husband wants - I'm pretty adventurous myself, but I draw the line at getting pissed and crapped on - you must be akin to Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt if you're wife believes she HAS to do that stuff to keep you satisfied, must be quite a catch.

What if she wanted you to be hung up and stretched by your p**** until it's 3 feet long and at the same time get whipped on your behind until you're black and blue - because that turned her on and kept her satisfied - what in the hell would be your answer then?

Tool - a very fitting moniker.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Okay, normally I do not get up on my high horse, but these comments have me up there BIG TIME!
> 
> I agree, there are things you do in a marriage you might not like because they are things your spouse likes - but this DOES NOT apply to doing things with your body that are repulsive or cause emotional or physical pain to you.
> 
> ...


Perhaps. But how many men are truly as enthusiastic about all the stuff women ask us to do -- nay, demand us to do -- in order to remain in their good affections? 

I can't wait to try this on my wife:

"Honey, can you take out the recycling? It's starting to smell."
"I'll consider it, dear. Let me give it a good hard think. I'll let you know."

"Sweetie, can you take my sister to her doctor's visit? It's her first pelvic, and I don't want her to be alone. You'll probably want to stop by the drugstore and pick her up some pads afterwards -- they always make me bleed a little."

"Hey, I'll entertain the idea, but . . . I mean, really? Why on earth would you want me to do that? And miss the game? All right, all right, I'll 'entertain' the idea. But don't hold your breath."

You're right, we all do things in a relationship we're uncomfortable with but we do because it's our duty to do so to make our spouse happy. I guess the biggest question is where you draw the line. And I think that if all things were fair between men and women in a relationship, you might not be happy where that line fell. Just sayin'. 

Hubby might be into weird stuff, true -- but for some women oral and anal are "weird stuff". Heck, for some women anything but lights out/missionary position is "weird stuff". For that matter, Wifey might be into weird stuff, too, and just not sharing her weird stuff.


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## hbgirl (Feb 15, 2011)

I don't want to leave! That is my point! I love my husband and I have loved my husband for most of my life! I don't want to lose him and our family! I just don't know what to do so he'll see how he's making me feel. Fingers crossed.......about to face yet again


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> OP given this guy's handle and what he is saying, I hope you don't take him to heart. I am thinking troll at this point. NO ONE has the right to hurt you physically. Emotionally either but the physical hurt just is more obvious.


I never said he has the right to hurt her physically. If she doesn't like it, she can leave him.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

OK - for Tool and others who seem to think this is HER problem...

If you aren't getting what you want in the bedroom, do you take it out on your whole family?

That shows a complete lack of control. OP is being emotionally abused and her H is even willing to hurt the kids - knowing she wants to protect them - in order to get what he wants in bed.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> Perhaps. But how many men are truly as enthusiastic about all the stuff women ask us to do -- nay, demand us to do -- in order to remain in their good affections?


I am a tad sickened here. I am ALL FOR the idea that people need to satisfy their spouses in and out of the bedroom. But that anyone is advocating that that should extend to actual PAINFUL activities presented in a constant stream of criticism. Amazing.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> I never said he has the right to hurt her physically.


Did you miss the part where that is exactly what she wants to submit to? Sex acts that hurt her? 



> If she doesn't like it, she can leave him.


Slowly and calmly remembering the guidelines of the group. 

OP - I hope you don't take neanderthals to heart.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

nice777guy said:


> OK - for Tool and others who seem to think this is HER problem...
> 
> If you aren't getting what you want in the bedroom, do you take it out on your whole family?
> 
> That shows a complete lack of control. OP is being emotionally abused and her H is even willing to hurt the kids - knowing she wants to protect them - in order to get what he wants in bed.


There was a time where I wasn't getting what I wanted. And yes I acted like my kids didn't exist. It was a bad situation and it only made things worse.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> Perhaps. But how many men are truly as enthusiastic about all the stuff women ask us to do -- nay, demand us to do -- in order to remain in their good affections?
> 
> I can't wait to try this on my wife:
> 
> ...



And I don't disagree when we're talking about everyday, mundane things we ALL do that we don't want to do in our relationships, our jobs, with our kids, etc.

But - when someone tells you that they will be dissatified until you allow them to pee on you, because it turns them on - all the while degrading you in the process - the reason it turns them on - she's supposed to just "agree" because she's his wife and she should do ANYTHING in the bedroom to keep him satisfied.

I bet this role reversal wouldn't work so good if it was the woman demanding things that were weird and hurt physically and emotionally for "him."

Just sayin...if she likes it too, then no argument - but based on this guy's responses, he probably hasn't asked AND doesn't care.

What a Tool...


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> There was a time where I wasn't getting what I wanted. And yes I acted like my kids didn't exist. It was a bad situation and it only made things worse.


You didn't get what you wanted. So you acted like a spoiled, irresponsible child. And you are advocating this as a good pattern to follow for others?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Just read in the paper here locally, where a man sexually abused his own daughter. After further investigation by the police of his history and a confiscated computer, he to seemed to have an extreme porn issue with some disturbing things on there. They even interviewed his wife, she mentioned how he had been struggling with this issue for awhile and how over the years it went from just porn viewing to more extreme things over the years, well guess how extreme it got? Do I think all people who have porn addictions do this to kids? NO, but they could. I'm just saying maybe if you aren't going to think of yourself, maybe you could think about them.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

hbgirl said:


> I don't want to leave! That is my point! I love my husband and I have loved my husband for most of my life! I don't want to lose him and our family! I just don't know what to do so he'll see how he's making me feel. Fingers crossed.......about to face yet again


Maybe you two could come up with a compromise?

Say you will do it sometimes, but not make it a regular thing because it turns you off.

When my Wife tells me that something I do turns her off, I in the future try to avoid it.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Tool said:


> There was a time where I wasn't getting what I wanted. And yes I acted like my kids didn't exist. It was a bad situation and it only made things worse.


Not to give you too much credit here, but I think he's doing more than just ignoring his kids - sounds like he gets mean and bullies everyone until he gets his way. 

We're all filling in blanks here based on our own experiences. But regardless of what's normal and not in bed - the kids shouldn't even be in the conversation.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> You didn't get what you wanted. So you acted like a spoiled, irresponsible child. And you are advocating this as a good pattern to follow for others?


Nope it was not a good pattern, but these kind of things happen.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

hbgirl said:


> I don't want to leave! That is my point! I love my husband and I have loved my husband for most of my life! I don't want to lose him and our family! I just don't know what to do so he'll see how he's making me feel. Fingers crossed.......about to face yet again


I am not entirely clear WHY you would love a man who is so nasty to you. But that is not the matter. You do. Have you considered counseling?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

hbgirl said:


> I don't want to leave! That is my point! I love my husband and I have loved my husband for most of my life! I don't want to lose him and our family! I just don't know what to do so he'll see how he's making me feel. Fingers crossed.......about to face yet again


So you having a history with this man, and having kids with him, living in what seems to be a destructive, unhealthy situation outweighs that of possibly recreating a life that might be more healthy for you and your kids? 

Exactly what are some of the good qualities about him that make you want to stay and feel loved and safe? 

Hey, I'm all for counseling and trying to work things out, but right now I just don't know what to tell you other than get yourself some help.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tool said:


> When my Wife tells me that something I do turns her off, I in the future try to avoid it.


OP told her husband that the extreme sex turned her off. In fact, she told him she hates it and it demoralizes her.

He told her tough chit and do it anyway.

See the difference?


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## ladyybyrd (Jan 4, 2011)

You should never do anything you are not comfortable with. Your husband is the selfish one, not you. Your husband should respect you and that you don't want to do the things he is asking you to do!

4-5 times a week and he is complaining. 
I would be happy with 4-5 times a month. I would be in heaven with 4-5 times a week!


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> So for me that would include buying feminine hygiene products, dealing with my brother-in-law, or attending a white sale for the express purpose of holding a purse and carrying the shopping bags. Oh, and having anything pink in the bathroom. I'll inform my wife at once.
> 
> But sexually? Hard to know what you're uncomfortable with unless you experiment a little. One person's extreme is another's vanilla.



If it's painful, degrading, or both, she doesn't have to do it. 

Period.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

Tool said:


> She needs to remember that when a man is not satisfied in bed, he does not feel loved. And sometimes you need to do things you do not like.
> 
> My Wife knows this, and that's why I am fully satisfied.
> 
> ...


So she has to degrade herself like some porno ****? Or let him use her while enduring physical pain, because that's what he likes? .

Taking out the garbage or doing another chore you don't like to do is not the same thing.

I'd tell him to pack himself and his "needs" and get the F*&# out


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

And it may have to come down to that..


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

I have read (though not in great depth) the posts here since my last post. 
Marriage is all about compromise. My own wife likes to receive but has NEVER given me a BJ or even kissed my d!ck. She refuses to tongue kiss. I think her refusing to do these things in unreasonable, and I think alot of readers here would agree.
Its not as if I am asking her to let me tie her up, whip her then ram my d!ck up her ar$e...which I feel would be unreasonable. 
What I feel is even more unreasonable is my wifes refusal to meet half way...like maybe suck my balls etc.
Yes we are all entitled to our boundaries, but in marriage there HAS to be give and take.
We don't know what exactly the op's husband is demanding...which is why I mentioned in an earlier post that maybe there should be a compromise.

However, if the OP's husband is abusing her and forcing her to do things she doesn't want to do (marital rape is now an offence) then she needs to get out before something more serious happens. 
She says that she loves him and doesn't want to lose her family.... 
She will not lose her family but she will lose her husband....better lose an abusive husband than lose your life when he loses 'it' because you won't let him tie you up and whip you whilst ramming you up the bum...

OP - If you truly feel that he is abusing you then you need both legal and psychological help before its too late.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> I'd tell him to pack himself and his "needs" and get the F*&# out


:smthumbup:


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> If it's painful, degrading, or both, she doesn't have to do it.
> 
> Period.


That adds raking leaves and mowing the lawn to the list. Oh, and changing her oil. Holding her purse definitely makes the grade. Helping any of your in-laws move. I'm sure I can think of more.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> So she has to degrade herself like some porno ****? Or let him use her while enduring physical pain, because that's what he likes? .
> 
> Taking out the garbage or doing another chore you don't like to do is not the same thing.
> 
> I'd tell him to pack himself and his "needs" and get the F*&# out



I'm a bit offended by your denigrating use of the term "porn ****". Assuming that a professional porn performer is automatically being degraded in any way is a gross mis-statement. That's the sort of attitude that perpetuates the idea that a healthy woman can't enjoy her own sexuality in the way she chooses.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> That adds raking leaves and mowing the lawn to the list. Oh, and changing her oil. Holding her purse definitely makes the grade. Helping any of your in-laws move. I'm sure I can think of more.


I can understand why you are having sexual difficulty with your wife.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

TeaLeaves4 said:


> Let him use her while enduring physical pain, because that's what he likes? .
> 
> Taking out the garbage or doing another chore you don't like to do is not the same thing.
> 
> I'd tell him to pack himself and his "needs" and get the F*&# out


Absolutely! This is completely intolerable. If one doesn't enjoy pain in bed they just don't agree to it and don't do it. Period. If the other person insists on it regardless and even uses blackmail (behavior toward kids) to get what they want - CURB!

Painful is not _just _uncomfortable. It's painful!

I literally roll my eyes whenever I hear a man is "uncomfortable" holding a purse for a moment because my hands are busy or buying a pack of tampons. It doesn't make a guy any less masculine, as it doesn't make me any less feminine if I go buy condoms or carry my share of heavy shopping bags. Really!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> I'm a bit offended by your denigrating use of the term "porn ****". Assuming that a professional porn performer is automatically being degraded in any way is a gross mis-statement. That's the sort of attitude that perpetuates the idea that a healthy woman can't enjoy her own sexuality in the way she chooses.


 If this comment were coming from a woman, I'd give it some merit.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

turnera said:


> If this comment were coming from a woman, I'd give it some merit.


Is there a difference between "being degraded" and "degrading self"? I think many women think of a porn star as "being degraded" because she does something or has something done to her that many women wouldn't allow themselves to do or be done to. We tend to personalize or put ourselves in that porn star's shoes and figure that if this is the way we would feel about it then certainly that porn star should also.

Legal porn industry has all kinds of rules and benefits instilled to protect those involved, including the business. There are surely many legalities involved in being a porn star with a legal contract, such as strict periodical health check-ups, insurance coverage etc. I am sure that in view of that legal contract a porn star has a right to state what she will do and what she will not. If in a legal porn movie a porn star is e.g. slapped, you can be sure she had agreed to it prior.

Having said that, I've seen a lot of western porn and it's very rare for me to find a woman who would actually genuinely enjoy it, as in climax. According to me western porn stars are performers, not women who enjoy their sexuality on camera.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

turnera said:


> If this comment were coming from a woman, I'd give it some merit.


I am a woman and could have written that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> I think many women think of a porn star as "being degraded" because she does something or has something done to her that many women wouldn't allow themselves to do or be done to. We tend to personalize or put ourselves in that porn star's shoes and figure that if this is the way we would feel about it then certainly that porn star should also.
> 
> Having said that, I've seen a lot of western porn and it's very rare for me to find a woman who would actually genuinely enjoy it, as in climax. According to me western porn stars are performers, not women who enjoy their sexuality on camera.


You 2nd paragrah nails the real reason some women do not want a porn-based sexual relationship with their partner. American porn is appealing for American men. It is pure penis pleasure sex. If the average woman had sex like the porn stars the man would always get the orgasm and she never gets one. It is male oriented all the way. 

The woman is endlessly willing to worship the service the man never needs to have an orgasm or be embraced kissed treated with any sort of affect of regard. She is essentially a provider of orifices. The spicing up that many men want in their sex is based on things they see in porn. Unfortunately, they are based on male pleasure not female. 

Some couple use porn sex as a stating point and make it into an enjoyable experience for both. But it does not come anywhere near resembling a porn performance. But many men follow the porn script without thinking out what is in it for my partner? What am I doing to bring her pleasure. If the man is having all of the orgasms and the woman is not, there is no incentive to give him yet more avenue to orgasms.


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## Draguna (Jan 13, 2011)

Haven't read the whole thread, but your H is a whiner and a douche. Kick him out woman!


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

To the OP, how are things? Anything changed?


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

My Wife and I watch porn together and we try some of the moves we see..

Sometimes the same thing just get boring..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We do, too.

But if I wasn't comfortable with it, I would be furious with my husband for pressuring me to try.


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## lovemywife4life520 (Jun 21, 2010)

I think what some guys have a hard time coming to grips with is the natural evolution of a relationship. At first its all lovie dovie, sex all the time in all kinds of crazy places and doing all kinds of different things. Eventually, your sex life is going to slow down. The woman's feelings are going to evolve more towards the emotional spectrum and us guys are going to wonder what we are doing wrong. What guys have to understand is that every woman has a different way of showing her love. Just because she doesn't give you head as often or won't act out scenes from a porno flick anymore doesn't mean her love or attraction for you has decreased, she just expresses it in different ways. And its up to us men to realize that and accept it for what it is.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

We have to accept it?? Are you kidding..


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

lovemywife4life520 said:


> I think what some guys have a hard time coming to grips with is the natural evolution of a relationship. At first its all lovie dovie, sex all the time in all kinds of crazy places and doing all kinds of different things. Eventually, your sex life is going to slow down. The woman's feelings are going to evolve more towards the emotional spectrum and us guys are going to wonder what we are doing wrong. What guys have to understand is that every woman has a different way of showing her love. Just because she doesn't give you head as often or won't act out scenes from a porno flick anymore doesn't mean her love or attraction for you has decreased, she just expresses it in different ways. And its up to us men to realize that and accept it for what it is.





Tool said:


> We have to accept it?? Are you kidding..


My point is, no, you don't have to accept it. As a matter of fact, it's contrary to your interests to accept it. Saying that it's inevitable makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy, but it doesn't make it true. What you're saying, LMW4L, is that marriage is ultimately a hopeless equation in which a man gets less and less of what he needs over time, and that our best bet is to accept our lot and be grateful for what scraps of sex they're willing to give us.

And that just ain't so.

Sure, your sex life can slow down as time goes on, but only if you let it. If you've allowed the focus of your relationship to turn primarily towards the emotional -- thereby accepting the fact that you , as a man, will never have the sex life you want in a relationship -- and you're okay with that, fine. Whatever floats your boat. But you are tacitly surrendering your sexuality to your wife by allowing her to dictate what is and isn't permissible in the relationship unilaterally. While you can accept it, that's like a physically abused wife accepting the abuse as a natural progression in the relationship when it just isn't. When you allow your wife to determine the nature of the acceptable way to express love in the relationship without you challenging it with your own personal values and ideals, then you've essentially handed her your testicles and whatever sex you get after that will be entirely at her discretion, because you've pre-approved that.

If, instead, you persist in working for your own male interests -- which are not particularly onerous or unpleasant for a woman in most cases -- then the crushing realization that you've already had most of the sex you will ever have, and the most exciting bits are behind you with virtually nothing left to look forward to, might never happen. 

So yes, her unwillingness to give you head very often or act adventurous in bed don't mean that she loves you any less . . . just that she respects you and your masculinity less than she did. You have been tamed. Your needs and desires matter less and are therefore less important than hers in the scope of the relationship.

You can accept that if you want. But you don't have to.


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## lovemywife4life520 (Jun 21, 2010)

So your going to say that your sex life now, as an adult with a full time job and kids, is the same as your sex life was when you first started dating your wife? Your making it sound as if sex is the most important part of a marriage. Don't get me wrong, i love sex just as much as the next person, but i don't expect my wife to want to mess around every night. It might be different if she didn't bust her ass at work all day but when both of you work 9 hour days and have kids i think things are going to slow down. I never said it was forever and i never said it stops. You make it sound like guys are entitled to whatever sex we want from our wives but in reality that isn't how it works. If it worked like that there wouldn't be so many guys on this website complaining about their sex lives.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Maybe if you were both millionaires and had nannies and cooks and maid and chauffeurs, such a life would be doable.

Look, there are tons of books out there about how to improve it, and most of them are going to tell you the same thing: make sure your wife is still as happy as when you married. She has to be emotionally invested to give good SF; she (usually) doesn't have the same drive, so there has to be more of a reason to WANT to give good SF and in the frequency you want.

Gripe all you want that that isn't fair, but the truth is, our drives are biologically different from yours. While a guy may spend his teen years dreaming about naked girls all day, a girl may spend those years dreaming about a guy romancing her or buying her a diamond ring or even having babies. The SF part rarely enters into her vocabulary or thoughts, because she simply doesn't have the biological drive you do. Most of the girls my DD20 has asked about it (she's researching it for school), say they only do it to keep the guy happy, and could hardly care less if they do it - and a lot say they wish they didn't have to, but they do it to keep the guy. It was the same way when I was their age. 

Does their desire grow as they mature? Sure. But it will almost never match your level.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

lovemywife4life520 said:


> So your going to say that your sex life now, as an adult with a full time job and kids, is the same as your sex life was when you first started dating your wife?


For us it is WAAAAAAAAY better. The kids and jobs don't even enter into it. 

There are so many facets that go into a sexual dynamic. One of the ones that is often missed is that women can sometimes need the development of deep trust in order to be willing and able to develop sexually. 

I think that there can be huge disconnect when trying to solve sexual problems. Men... more, more, more, more. I want you, I love you, I want to show it to you with sex! Women PLEASE help develop and unwrap me. And do it subtly so I don't know it is going on because I am scared of all the nonsense I was taught as a kid....





> Your making it sound as if sex is the most important part of a marriage. Don't get me wrong, i love sex just as much as the next person, but i don't expect my wife to want to mess around every night. It might be different if she didn't bust her ass at work all day but when both of you work 9 hour days and have kids i think things are going to slow down.


I think if a couple is in a place (and I don't recall your back story, so I don't know what place you are in) where there is one wanting more than the other or if there is any tension around the issue, the stress of family and work make... not exactly a conscious excuse but part of the dynamic of disparity.

IF a couple can get to a place of really good everything in marriage from practical considerations, to deep trust, to full comfort with sexual matters, you manage to find time and place for sex despite the challenges of life.





> I never said it was forever and i never said it stops. You make it sound like guys are entitled to whatever sex we want from our wives but in reality that isn't how it works.


I hear the same tone, I think. The way to engender whatever you want from your wife is not to expect it, in my book. Or at least that is not how it worked for us. 





> If it worked like that there wouldn't be so many guys on this website complaining about their sex lives.


And women! I would bet 9 times out of 10 the reason for sexual dissatisfaction is underlying issues within the marriage that are not sex related.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

turnera said:


> Maybe if you were both millionaires and had nannies and cooks and maid and chauffeurs, such a life would be doable.
> 
> Look, there are tons of books out there about how to improve it, and most of them are going to tell you the same thing: make sure your wife is still as happy as when you married. She has to be emotionally invested to give good SF; she (usually) doesn't have the same drive, so there has to be more of a reason to WANT to give good SF and in the frequency you want.


Turnera has spoken correctly yet again.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Tool said:


> We have to accept it?? Are you kidding..


No one has to accept anything. People don't have to accept the lack of sex from their spouse, they don't have to accept porn use, just like some people don't have to accept the lack of whatever else from their spouse. Not helping out, lack of emotional support, whatever it may be.

You both either come to some kind of understanding, or you don't. If you don't and still can't accept it, then that's when you file for divorce and move on.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

trey69 said:


> No one has to accept anything.


I don't think that is entirely true. You DO have to accept the person your spouse is. 



> People don't have to accept the lack of sex from their spouse, just like some people don't have to accept the lack of whatever else from their spouse. Not helping out, lack of emotional support, whatever it may be.
> 
> You both either come to some kind of understanding, or you don't. If you don't and still can't accept it, then that's when you file for divorce and move on.


HOW you get to the understanding is often the thing that is the most challenging. The direct route is not always the best route to take.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

I was meaning their behavior, sorry. And no people don't have to do squat. I love my wife for who she is, but I will not accept certain things she may do that I feel is detrimental to our marriage. I would hope she feels the same.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> Turnera has spoken correctly yet again.


 Phew!

lol, I was expecting you to knock down everything I said! :smthumbup:


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

Yup understanding is the hardest part..

When my Wife finally got it, our marriage was saved..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

vthomeschoolmom said:


> I would bet 9 times out of 10 the reason for sexual dissatisfaction is underlying issues within the marriage that are not sex related.


 *Exactly*!

If you want more sex, _LOOK AT YOUR MARRIAGE_.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

Actually we were the other way around..

We had problems because of lack of sex, as soon as the sex returned.. Marriage problems went away..


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

"If you want more sex, LOOK AT YOUR MARRIAGE."

I agree. Sometimes though people don't want to see that, they only see "hey I'm not getting any sex." They don't see why that might be. I also love how people are real quick to blame the other person for no sex, when in fact they failed to see they might be part of the problem for why they aren't getting any.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

its all one big conspiracy for women to get what they want, cant you people see that?


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

AgentD said:


> "If you want more sex, LOOK AT YOUR MARRIAGE."
> 
> I agree. Sometimes though people don't want to see that, they only see "hey I'm not getting any sex." They don't see why that might be. I also love how people are real quick to blame the other person for no sex, when in fact they failed to see they might be part of the problem for why they aren't getting any.


Well maybe if the sex didnt stop in the first place, those problems may not have come up..


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Tool said:


> Well maybe if the sex didnt stop in the first place, those problems may not have come up..


I understand that, but WHY was there lack of sex to begin with?


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

Might be low on the person's priority list..

That's what happened to my Wife, it just wasn't the most important thing for her..


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

lovemywife4life520 said:


> Your making it sound as if sex is the most important part of a marriage.


Actually.. HDs often come across exactly that way. We obsess about lack/not enough of sex, we are crazed about lack/not enough of sex. We sound a lot like nymphomaniacs/satyromaniacs, but we aren't.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Tool said:


> Might be low on the person's priority list..
> 
> That's what happened to my Wife, it just wasn't the most important thing for her..


Ahhhh ok. I'm assuming she was like this when you met her? If not, something had to change for her which means there was something that happened to change things for her feelings on it which means there was a underlying issue for the cause of her not letting it be a priority.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tool said:


> Well maybe if the sex didnt stop in the first place, those problems may not have come up..


 Sorry, but the person who wants something the most is most called upon to ensure that circumstances warrant them getting it.

Tool, until you understand the difference in the way women and men think, you'll never be able to understand this segment of the discussion.

You say that once it started again, the marriage improved.

You read minds, then?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tool said:


> Might be low on the person's priority list..
> 
> That's what happened to my Wife, it just wasn't the most important thing for her..


 So what, exactly, changed? Now, I mean.


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

She made it a priority..

Now the resentment from me is gone..

Im not sure what exactly made it no longer a priority.. Maybe school, kids, bills.. who knows..


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tool said:


> She made it a priority..
> 
> Now the resentment from me is gone..


This is the way it works. One person changes and engenders a change in the other. Good job, wife. Good job, Tool for not staying in resentment land.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

Tool said:


> She made it a priority..
> 
> Now the resentment from me is gone..
> 
> Im not sure what exactly made it no longer a priority.. Maybe school, kids, bills.. who knows..


But WHY wasn't it a priority to being with? 

Glad she changed and your resentment diminished though. Thats a real killer!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

turnera said:


> Sorry, but the person who wants something the most is most called upon to ensure that circumstances warrant them getting it.


That doesn't HAVE to be the case. Either partner in a relationship can take a thoughtful look at what could improve the marriage. If that look is at what the OTHER wants, it can often cause change to their own benefit as well. That is how it sounds like it worked for Tool.

She changed to improve his happiness. His improved happiness caused him to want to be the man she wanted. Could have worked the other way as well.

/QUOTE]


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## Tool (Feb 14, 2011)

I have no clue at all.. It happened over time, less and less..


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## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

My wife and I had a sexless marriage for many, many years. I too think that sex was just not important to her and she truly did not understand how important it was to me.

Things have since improved in a HUGE way and we are doing great.

It was not until I told her that I would leave if things did not improve...that it improved. 

You really need to shake a person's world up, to the core, to inspire change.

The other thing I did which may have helped was I started being more independent and taking care of my own needs (I don't mean cheating). I started going out with my friends more, hit the gym, demanded respect and stopped putting up with s**t. Basically started acting like I was before I met her and when we first met...while at the same time essentially preparing myself for getting back in the dating world.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I wonder if maybe some of these people who start out in a relationship with sex being a low priority or not feeling its important, if they were taught that when they were younger? Or maybe something happened to them they never shared with their spouse?


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