# Why does he want me if he doesn't?



## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

I hope someone can help me with this from an independent perspective because I feel like I am being given contradictary information which has left me confused.

I met a man, he asked me out for a long time. Probably over a year he was quite persistent. I said "no" every time because I was concerned about the obstacles.

1. I have a child and he is much younger than me
2. We live pretty far apart (2 hours)
3. We both have VERY busy demanding jobs
4. He told me he wasn't in a place for a full relationship

But despite that, he was so determined to be with me and over time we grew close as friends and one thing led to another...we begun seeing each other romatically.

He seemed like a really great person, a little broken, but we got on so well and there was almost instantly strong emotions and bond between us. He'd do anything possible to spend time with me and we were so affectionate and so cute together. I figured I'd not worry about the future because I can't remember the last time anyone made me so happy.

But after a few months, I noticed the relationship not progressing (like meeting families or spending birthdays together) and we started to have a bit of problems from this.

I wanted a boyfriend. He wanted something vague and undefined when it suited him.

So I broke it off.

We were both miserable.

In the end he just showed up outside my door saying he couldn't stay away and he tought him coming would make me happy because I'd know how much he cared. Very much nothing like him to be so romantic. But when we talked he told me he loved what we had but did not see us as *ever* being boyfriend and girlfriend.

I was heartbroken.

Told him it was over.

Since then he is honestly really sad and is sending me letters.

His last one to me said:

_"I have no interest in having a girlfriend but I do want to enjoy the spare time I have, and that's only with you. I think you're overthinking it and making a mistake. I was really excited about all the things we’d do this year. I was picturing it all in my head. I think this is wrong but I have to accept your decision. You're the one that made me put it into boxes and give you an answer. I still want to see you. I care about you and no matter how much I protest this is a relationship that we are in already. You're the one ending it, not me. We certainly have something special Im not denying that and it’s not just the mind blowing sex. The thought of us never again being in an embrace upsets me. When you open the door and we fall into each other. That means something. It's not normal. Why don't we start a new chapter today? I don’t just want sex, if I wanted sex I could get it anywhere. Do you think I would pursue this long just for sex. I'm not that shallow. Why don't I come over and we can talk? Nothing beats when we are together. It's sensational. You have this power over me like no one else has ever had and it's really sad if we can't just be together"_

So can anyone please help me understand?

I don't understand if he is so infatuated and wants to be with me so much why he has ruled me out as a potential partner?

And why does he expect me to continue knowing that? 

I feel so completely heartbroken, please can someone help me to understand?

We were just SO happy, this feels so unfair.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

He enjoys the drama of it all.

Move on. This one is a commitment-phobe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

bunchesoflove said:


> I hope someone can help me with this from an independent perspective
> 1. I have a child* and he is much younger than me*
> 2. We live pretty far apart (2 hours)
> 3. We both have VERY busy demanding jobs
> 4. He told me he wasn't in a place for a full relationship


What is the age difference ?


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

9 years


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

So this is a FWB?


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Sex no commitment  But then he goes on and on about it being not just sex

So if it's not sex and it "means" something but I am not a girlfriend...what the heck is he talking about??


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bunchesoflove said:


> Sex no commitment  But then he goes on and on about it being not just sex
> 
> So if it's not sex and it "means" something but I am not a girlfriend...what the heck is he talking about??


Using you.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Why doesn't he go and have fun with someone else?
younger
Closer geographically

He's a very strang person


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## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

He's stringing you along and using you.


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## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

He wants someone to have sex with and have fun with, who won't expect anything from him.

You want a boyfriend.

There's nothing wrong with either of your positions. But you can't give each other what you need, and continuing to try will only lead to heartache. He's hoping to convince you to not want a relationship, so you will continue giving him the things that HE wants. But that's not fair to you.

Move on. He won't give you what you need, but he'll continue trying to convince you that you don't need those things.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Wy am I not good enough to be a girlfriend though?

that's the bit that really hurts


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Some men pursue single mom's,especially older ones, because there's a perception that they're easier to bed without needing to have to put much into the relationship.

It sounds like you may be his type and he may enjoy your company but he fights his heart by thinking practically in terms of age difference and you being a single mom. To most men, especially never married without kids of their own, it's a deal breaker. 

I would start pulling away. A form of a 180 so you can detach. In the beginning you thought with your head and turned down a man that was too young and lived to far. But then you let emotions guide you and over ruled your brain to accept a young man to use you as a friends with benefits. 

There is a more appropriate man out there, that is going to fall hard for you but as long as you're a booty call for a youngster, you'll never meet him.


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## lexis (Feb 11, 2016)

bunchesoflove said:


> Wy am I not good enough to be a girlfriend though?
> 
> that's the bit that really hurts


It has nothing to do with you not being good enough. It has to do with commitment and his fear of it.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

bunchesoflove said:


> Wy am I not good enough to be a girlfriend though?
> 
> that's the bit that really hurts


It has nothing to do with being good enough. It's a matter of being at different stages of life. He's way younger, never married, and never had a kid of his own so he has a lot of time to find an age appropriate and childless woman. 

You've put this kid on a pedestal. Playing cougar is not what you need in your life. If anything, you should think, he's not good enough for me. I need a mature man, who knows what he wants in life. 

You have a child that needs an emotionally strong mother.  Pining for something, that shouldn't have been in the 1st place, is draining you. Focus on getting your Mo-Jo back. We all only have so much in the emotional tank, don't short change your child by giving this guy anymore of your heart.


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Because he hasn't found someone he likes better and he's not in any hurry to try?


That was my first thought. He doesnt want to lose you but wants to be free to not feel guilty in acting single--ie when he runs into another woman he wants to pursue.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jsmart said:


> It has nothing to do with being good enough. It's a matter of being at different stages of life. He's way younger, never married, and never had a kid of his own so he has a lot of time to find an age appropriate and childless woman.
> 
> You've put this kid on a pedestal. Playing cougar is not what you need in your life.* If anything, you should think, he's not good enough for me. I need a mature man, who knows what he wants in life. *
> 
> You have a child that needs an emotionally strong mother. Pining for something, that shouldn't have been in the 1st place, is draining you. Focus on getting your Mo-Jo back. We all only have so much in the emotional tank, don't short change your child by giving this guy anymore of your heart.


Please reflect on the bolded, OP.


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

Years ago, I was in an 8 year relationship very similar to what you have. I was his girlfriend, we lived together, but he refused to marry me. I had the same questions: why wasn't I good enough? And I tried to prove myself for years, to no avail. I finally had enough and called it quits for good. And when I did, you know what happened? I was happier alone, learned a few things about myself, and eventually met a man who WANTED to marry me, and did. I didn't have to try to prove myself worthy or jump through hoops for him . He loved me just the way I was. 

This non-boyfriend of yours is NOT going to give you what you need. He's telling you that he won't. Listen to him. My ex told me for 8 years before I finally HEARD him. ..don't waste any more of your time.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Peaf said:


> Years ago, I was in an 8 year relationship very similar to what you have. I was his girlfriend, we lived together, but he refused to marry me. I had the same questions: why wasn't I good enough? And I tried to prove myself for years, to no avail. I finally had enough and called it quits for good. And when I did, you know what happened? I was happier alone, learned a few things about myself, and eventually met a man who WANTED to marry me, and did. I didn't have to try to prove myself worthy or jump through hoops for him . He loved me just the way I was.
> 
> This non-boyfriend of yours is NOT going to give you what you need. He's telling you that he won't. Listen to him. My ex told me for 8 years before I finally HEARD him. ..don't waste any more of your time.


I love this post.

You don't have to prove anything. When you are with the right man, he will indeed like and accept you just the way you are.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He does want to be with you (until he decides he doesn't) but on his terms. He doesn't want to tell you the reasons he doesn't want a serious relationship because he doesn't want to completely shut that door. He hopes you'll just accept things as they are. He's happy. You aren't. Time to move on.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Forgot to add -- he at least knows infatuation isn't love. Many don't.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

I think my real problem is that I can only understand the world in terms of the way I see it.

Sure, I have been dumped before.

I have had men not like me or just want sex before - I know what it feels like / looks like.

I have also been with men I saw as temporary, fun for a while but definitely no meeting my parents or thoughts to a real future.

But putting myself into those shoes...I let the guy know. I mean every action, every step of the way he KNEW there was no great fore or intensity or passion from my end. that we were dating, or even hving sex, but I let him know.

No spending Sunday mornings making him breakfast. No calls late at night to say we miss each other. No staying awake all night in the garden with a blanket talking about our childhoods. No kissing between smiles or running back to the house for one more kiss before we go to work. No missing them or being unable to let them go when it was over.

All that stuff is what I have done when I am in love. When I have real and genuine feelings towards that man, so I guess because THIS guy does all of that stuff with me -I interpreted all along in every way that despite he was saying "I don't want a relationship", I thought he was in love. Just from the way he looks at me, the way he can't stay away, the way if I am upset or have a problem he will stay awake all night to help with it.

All that stuff threw me off.

I felt all that meant he was in love with me, and I thought that naturally followed that he would see a future with me.

Maybe total naive thought pattern on my behalf, but when something is believed in your heart like that, it hurts to hear that he never saw me that way.

One thing I will say about him -I have never met anyone more capable of blocking out emotions and shutting down than he is. So maybe he allowed himself to play at a fantasy, or a role play with me, without him ever really being there.

It's sad.

I know for all you reading this it's easy to look at this and say "oh cougar being used by toyboy" and see it a certain way. It never felt like that when Iw as stood in it. It felt like two people who found each other, unexpectedly but it was something really lovely and special to me


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I agree with most of the advice given. You need to detach, and by that I mean...go no contact. That sounds harsh, but this guy will keep dangling a carrot in front of your face forever, and honestly, I'm not sure I believe he's only sleeping with you. You have a child, and if things did progress, this guy sounds too unsure of his future to bring into your child's life. He might be fun and good in bed, but beyond that...he seems to be using you, honestly. No contact will help you heal from this, but if you keep chatting here and there, you will end up in bed with him, and he will continue to keep telling you that he doesn't want a girlfriend. Just my advice, fwiw...sorry you're hurting.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Forgot to add -- he at least knows infatuation isn't love. Many don't.


So this is infatuation?

And the diferrence between us is: I want a relationship and he doesn't? So I am building a fantasy future and getting emotionally attached and he's not?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

bunchesoflove said:


> So this is infatuation?
> 
> So I am building a fantasy future and getting emotionally attached and he's not?


Yes.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

bunchesoflove said:


> 4. He told me he wasn't in a place for a full relationship
> 
> But despite that, he was so determined to be with me and over time we grew close as friends and one thing led to another...we begun seeing each other *romatically.*


He was clear from the beginning that he didn't want a "full relationship." Substitute "romantically" to "for sex."


bunchesoflove said:


> a little broken, but we got on so well and there was almost instantly strong emotions and bond between us. He'd do anything possible to spend time with me and we were so affectionate and so cute together.


For sex



bunchesoflove said:


> But after a few months, I noticed the relationship not progressing (like meeting families or spending birthdays together) and we started to have a bit of problems from this.


Because all he wanted was sex.



bunchesoflove said:


> I wanted a boyfriend. He wanted something vague and undefined when it suited him.


He wanted sex. He was clear about that from the beginning. Like a lot of women, you didn't listen to him, and then began to fall in love with him.



bunchesoflove said:


> In the end he just showed up outside my door saying he couldn't stay away and he tought him coming would make me happy because I'd know how much he cared. Very much nothing like him to be so romantic. But when we talked he told me he loved what we had but did not see us as *ever* being boyfriend and girlfriend.


He has found that you are a suitable sex partner. He likes to have sex with you. Add to that that you are willingly available whenever he wants you, even if you complain about the relationship not getting more serious. If you would just go along with him, everything would be OK (in his mind.)



bunchesoflove said:


> _"I have no interest in having a girlfriend but I do want to enjoy the spare time I have, and that's only with you. I think you're overthinking it and making a mistake. *I was really excited about all the things we’d do this year. I was picturing it all in my head. I think this is wrong but I have to accept your decision. You're the one that made me put it into boxes and give you an answer. I still want to see you. I care about you and no matter how much I protest this is a relationship that we are in already. You're the one ending it, not me. We certainly have something special Im not denying that and it’s not just the mind blowing sex. *The thought of us never again being in an embrace upsets me. When you open the door and we fall into each other. That means something. It's not normal. Why don't we start a new chapter today? I don’t just want sex, if I wanted sex I could get it anywhere. Do you think I would pursue this long just for sex. I'm not that shallow. Why don't I come over and we can talk? Nothing beats when we are together. It's sensational. You have this power over me like no one else has ever had and it's really sad if we can't just be together"_
> 
> So can anyone please help me understand?


This guy says one thing, then says another. He is all over the place, and is immature. He desperately wants a relationship with you, with "mind blowing sex" but he desperately doesn't want a commitment, or for you to get your hopes up for anything...he wants to keep all the power of where the relationship in his court.

He is saying over in over, in various different ways that he likes you as a friend with benefits and nothing more. He is lying when he says "if I wanted sex I could get it anywhere. do you think I would puruse this long just for sex. I'm not shallow." If you refused to have sex with him, and moved him completely to the "friend zone" I bet he would't be happy with that.

Just like you want to have a boyfriend, and are willing to give sex for that, he just wants to have sex and will be your friend for that....but he doesn't want to commit to anything more than friends with benefits.

You need to keep this guy away. He is using you, and lying to you. He will use you for as long as you allow him to. You could even waste years of your life with him and never get the commitment you want, missing the guy who would not only loves you sexually, but wants to make you his one and only for life.

Cut him off.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> I agree with most of the advice given. You need to detach, and by that I mean...go no contact. That sounds harsh, but this guy will keep dangling a carrot in front of your face forever, and honestly, I'm not sure I believe he's only sleeping with you. You have a child, and if things did progress, this guy sounds too unsure of his future to bring into your child's life. He might be fun and good in bed, but beyond that...he seems to be using you, honestly. No contact will help you heal from this, but if you keep chatting here and there, you will end up in bed with him, and he will continue to keep telling you that he doesn't want a girlfriend. Just my advice, fwiw...sorry you're hurting.



Thanks Diedre

I totally know you're right.

Looking back...why did I do it?

Because honestly, I am a schmuck. I had gotten to know him over so long and I knew he was one of life's good guys. I trusted him, I knew he cared about me and beause I knew HE liked ME more, I felt no emotional risk and I figured...hey why not a fling? I never, ever expected to end up like this. I never met a guy this complex before. I had guys like this over me before and ALWAYS they wanted to be with me- so this is an education.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

bunchesoflove said:


> So this is infatuation?
> 
> And the diferrence between us is: I want a relationship and he doesn't? So I am building a fantasy future and getting emotionally attached and he's not?


Yes. That sums it up well.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Do you think self talk makes a diferrence?

I mean, I remmeber the firt month or two, we were getting on so great and I seriously was worried about the future / age gap and was questioning constantly over it. I even told him a few times that there was no future and laughed at the idea!!!!

Then I guess I talked myself around. Like I thought about the friends I knew with an age gap and all that and thought "well, come on, stop being such a worrier"

So maybe I was self talking to the POSITIVE (this can work) and he was self talking to the NEGATIVE (this can't work) because we both had different desired outcomes mine for us to fall madly in love and live happily ever after and him to not get too entangled or emotionally involved?


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Also, you know, he says a lot of funny stuff about relationships.

Like.

He said he knows for a fact if he falls in love, he'd marry her, then she would leave him - because that is waht always happens.

He said he knew I would meet someone better and not to worry, he was expecting it.

He said when his friends wife got pregnant "Oh, he is stuck for life now".

Like I have never met anyone with a more horrible view of love / commitment than him.

His mother left him when he was eight. Hes only had one serious relationship and she left him at the alter. So I guess he has reasons for departing the land of the living.

I think maybe being with me allows him to pretend for those moments and he loves that.

I don't think he is using me for sex, I think he is using me to feel love...but only the fantasy that he can walk out of.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

While you are fun, you aren't "the one" for him. He wants to keep his options open.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

bunchesoflove said:


> Thanks Diedre
> 
> I totally know you're right.
> 
> ...


Aw, you're not a schmuck. But sex bonds women differently...and we normally end up having a false sense of feelings for someone we are sleeping with, and frankly, you might not even feel that strongly about him, but the sex is talking. If that makes sense. 

I recommend googling narcissistic personality disorder...he strikes me as someone who is a narcissist. They are masters at saying all the right things to get what they want, and they are dramatic one minute, cold the next. I highly recommend also going no contact, block his phone number honestly...because whenever he wants a booty call, you're it. lol And you are too vulnerable right now to say no, so block his number, do not answer him in any way...and remove him from FB if he is on your friends list. Truuuust me, I know these types. I've dated these types, they don't want a commitment but they want to remain in your life so you don't move on to someone else. You have a child, too...so...make that even more motivation to keep this guy from lingering around. ((hugs))


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> While you are fun, you aren't "the one" for him. He wants to keep his options open.


:crying::crying::crying::crying:

ouch


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

bunchesoflove said:


> :crying::crying::crying::crying:
> 
> ouch


There is no 'one' for him, me thinks. Honestly, I've seen this time and time again, and I've dated these types. How you know he is what I say, is if you cut things off and he suddenly won't leave you be. Not because he misses you but because he misses using you. It's not you, it's him...and the fact that his mom left him, tells me he will continue to leave women before they can leave him.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

> I recommend googling narcissistic personality disorder...he strikes me as someone who is a narcissist. They are masters at saying all the right things to get what they want, and they are dramatic one minute, cold the next. I highly recommend also going no contact, block his phone number honestly...because whenever he wants a booty call, you're it. lol And you are too vulnerable right now to say no, so block his number, do not answer him in any way...and remove him from FB if he is on your friends list. Truuuust me, I know these types. I've dated these types, they don't want a commitment but they want to remain in your life so you don't move on to someone else. You have a child, too...so...make that even more motivation to keep this guy from lingering around. ((hugs))


Thanks so much.

I did already delete him of FB, instagram.

I don't usually bond from sex. I am kin of like a man like that, I can totally do casual sex. In fact I am 38 and have only had three proper relationships because I VERY rarely feel "in love". It's so rare for me, this one just felt right and I have always followed my heart.

I guess we are all wrong sometimes. I know you're right and I need to block all contact. I think I am working myself up to it.

I don't think he is going to let me go easily, so maybe it might be best to explain to him that I didn't want flowers or him standing outside my window and that if he cares about me to please, pleas eleave me alone to grieve.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

bunchesoflove said:


> :crying::crying::crying::crying:
> 
> ouch


I'm sorry, bunchesoflove. I wasted 3 years on a guy like this myself. I know how you feel. 

You're in love with something that can never be. The guy I dated who was like your BF is not married to this day, 30 years later. He was so damaged from his childhood trauma (parent's divorce) and he never dealt with it in a healthy way, so he remained emotionally childlike all his life.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bunchesoflove said:


> . . . maybe it might be best to explain to him that I didn't want flowers or him standing outside my window and that if he cares about me to please, pleas eleave me alone to grieve.


Yes.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I'm sorry, bunchesoflove. I wasted 3 years on a guy like this myself. I know how you feel.
> 
> You're in love with something that can never be. The guy I dated who was like your BF is not married to this day, 30 years later. He was so damaged from his childhood trauma (parent's divorce) and he never dealt with it in a healthy way, so he remained emotionally childlike all his life.


thankyou.

I hve to be completely honest with myself, in saying I have thought to myself that even if he DID commit (marry...move in) he would always be only half there.

It's difficult to explain what I mean but part of him is just so broken that I think years of therapy couldn't even fix it.

The way he sees the world is just with fear. He doesn't see the magic.

I think, deeep down, that is why he is addicted the way he is to me - because he gets to escape and pretend he feels the magic but at the same time ha has no risk. He allows himself to feel no attachment to me in terms of hopes and expectations for the future.

I don't think he will be married in 10 years and if he is it will be an unhappy marriage


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

bunchesoflove said:


> thankyou.
> 
> I hve to be completely honest with myself, in saying I have thought to myself that even if he DID commit (marry...move in) he would always be only half there.
> 
> ...


See what you are being saved from, bunches? Look at the heartache you are avoiding by ending it now. The pain is minimal compared to what it could be.


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

bunchesoflove said:


> I hope someone can help me with this from an independent perspective because I feel like I am being given contradictary information which has left me confused.
> 
> I met a man, he asked me out for a long time. Probably over a year he was quite persistent. I said "no" every time because I was concerned about the obstacles.
> 
> ...


You want to be Ms. Right. However, to him, you are only Ms. Right Now. He is using you to bide his time to wait for Ms. Right.

IamSomebody


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

bunchesoflove said:


> Thanks so much.
> 
> I did already delete him of FB, instagram.
> 
> ...


Truly? Just send a kind but short note...like...I don't wish to talk anymore, I wish you well. You're not his girlfriend, remember? 

And then go STRICT no contact. If he doesn't 'let you go,' he is totally a narcissist. This is soooo what they do, they would rather be adored by many, than loved by one. I learned a lot about this disorder after dating someone who wouldn't leave me be for TWO YEARS, after things ended, and that is when NO CONTACT became my best friend. It's the only way out of these types of relationships. You shouldn't feel too bad, you had a fling, and it was fun...but you learned. I wouldn't say anything about grieving, or anything like that, just truly...say something short and sweet, and go no contact. 

Again, you're not his gf...you owe him nothing.  But, beware, they are hard to shake. So stay strong and true to you! ((hug))


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

bunchesoflove said:


> Do you think self talk makes a diferrence?
> 
> I mean, I remmeber the firt month or two, we were getting on so great and I seriously was worried about the future / age gap and was questioning constantly over it. I even told him a few times that there was no future and laughed at the idea!!!!
> 
> ...


Another thing too, as an aside...even if he was interested in a relationship, you seem to be somewhat insecure about the age gap. That will only get worse as you both get older. Look at what happened to Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher. There are successful relationships out there where an age gap exists, but only if the older person is secure in it, and not that you are insecure as a person, but you seem insecure about the age gap, and me thinks you would better suited with a guy a little older than you, or your own age.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

At 29 years old, a person is reaching that age where they start to think about the direction of their life. They start seeing most of their friends marrying and starting families. He'll notice that all his friends are with girls that are on average 2 to 5 years younger and most likely childless. This guy will want the same thing that's why he'll never want to get serious with you. 

Have you met his friends or family? I imagine not. Having you as a FWB, that lives far away, allows him to avoid the awkwardness of explaining to his friends and family of being with someone so much older and with a kid. That's a bad place to put yourself into.

This relationship has done a number on your sense of self worth. Here you are questioning your desirability. A 38 year old woman shouldn't feel that she has to prove herself to a 29 year old guy. Don't do that to yourself. 

You say this isn't a cougar thing but I think you're lying to yourself. You secretly love that a 29 year old is driving 2 hour to have sex with you. But it's fool's gold because of what it's doing to you. You're confusing sexual passion for something deeper but the truth is that you've become some young guys booty call. You deserve better. Your kid deserves better.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

jsmart said:


> At 29 years old, a person is reaching that age where they start to think about the direction of their life. They start seeing most of their friends marrying and starting families. He'll notice that all his friends are with girls that are on average 2 to 5 years younger and most likely childless. This guy will want the same thing that's why he'll never want to get serious with you.
> 
> Have you met his friends or family? I imagine not. Having you as a FWB, that lives far away, allows him to avoid the awkwardness of explaining to his friends and family of being with someone so much older and with a kid. That's a bad place to put yourself into.
> 
> ...


No I have met all his friends. Like our third date he invited me to meet them all at a party and he had talked about me a lot to them and they were glad to see him happy. He'd not dated anyone for 18 months.

I also look quite a lot younger than I am. I still get asked for ID and stuff, so we don't look weird together or anything. I don't think it's that aspect anyway.

Seriously...I am not attracted to him because he is 29...that was a reason I said no to him for a year. It was a bit turnoff for me. I like a man who has his stuff together. 

And I am used to men doing exceptional things to get me into bed. But just not consistently for 18 months once they have already done it 100 times. For me that's the weird part.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Ok, good that you met his friends but that doesn't change the fact that this relationship is doing a number on your self worth. I've no doubt that you're attractive and very bangable. But is that what you want? We men will move heaven and earth to get into your vag. It doesn't mean we want to invest in you as a partner. To be there physically, emotionally, financially, ETC when the $hit hits the fan. 

You're a 38 year old mother who should be demanding more from anyone to get access to your body. Don't cheapen yourself. You're not a young carefree, child free 25 year old. Those are the type of woman that can afford to be a booty call for a 29 year old.

You mentioned almost with pride that you're like a man when it comes to sex. Able to have no strings attached sex without being emotionally involved. We men think easy sex means low value sex. If she gives it to me that fast with no strings attached, she's giving it to others equally fast. That's like being a free prostitute. Of course we men will take it. We're dogs that have sex on our minds almost 24/7.

You need to increase the price of entry. You are a mother who's closing in on 40. Don't squander your youthful good looks being a booty call.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

bunchesoflove said:


> Wy am I not good enough to be a girlfriend though?
> 
> that's the bit that really hurts


It's not you, it's him. You need to find someone who does want you as a girlfriend, since that is what you want.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

jsmart said:


> Ok, good that you met his friends but that doesn't change the fact that this relationship is doing a number on your self worth. I've no doubt that you're attractive and very bangable. But is that what you want? We men will move heaven and earth to get into your vag. It doesn't mean we want to invest in you as a partner. To be there physically, emotionally, financially, ETC when the $hit hits the fan.
> 
> You're a 38 year old mother who should be demanding more from anyone to get access to your body. Don't cheapen yourself. You're not a young carefree, child free 25 year old. Those are the type of woman that can afford to be a booty call for a 29 year old.
> 
> ...


I can't begin to start with all the stuff in this post I find offensive but this is a very sexist post.

Bangable?

If you read my OP, he waited a year for a DATE. Nothing "easy" about that and just because I can separate sex from love does not mean I do it with anyone who walks past. He is the only person in 2015 that got near me. And he knows that.

so this is happenning because I am a *****.

It's happenned because He is a jerk!


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm replying to what you've revealed. I'm not calling you a w.... I'm trying to get you to think differently about your situation so you can choose another path. 

This guy is not a jerk. He's only taking what he can. We men can't help pursuing women. Sometimes we fall for the woman. I actually think he has some feelings for you but it's not enough for him considering the situation. It doesn't make you cheap or less of a woman. It just that you're involved with the wrong type of guy. 

I've notice that you only mentioned your child once. To me that is sad because that tells me this guy is occupying to much of your head space. You must detach from him. He's not what you need in your life. In a year or 2, you'll hopefully be with someone that will treasure you and want to be there for you & your child through thick or thin. You'll look back on this relationship and shake your head thinking, "what was I thinking."


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

bunchesoflove said:


> No I have met all his friends. Like our third date he invited me to meet them all at a party and he had talked about me a lot to them and they were glad to see him happy. He'd not dated anyone for 18 months.
> 
> I also look quite a lot younger than I am. I still get asked for ID and stuff, so we don't look weird together or anything. I don't think it's that aspect anyway.
> 
> ...


Please google narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissists love the chase, but once they catch their prey, they back away. Endless head games, push and pull dynamics, sharing emotions then pulling away, lying, cheating, etc. Not unusual for them to heavily pursue older women (remember, he said his mom left him when he was a kid)...and not that you are a mother figure, but I have a feeling you're not the first 'older' woman he has pursued. Telling you he doesn't want a relationship or a girlfriend is so you pursue him ...so you feel uneasy...so you feel like you need to prove something to get him to commit. They like to be in control. I highly encourage you to look up that personality disorder. 

Please stay NC, and take the time to heal. You will get past this, and be stronger for it. 

If he truly is a narcissist, he won't respect your space and leave you alone. He will send you texts that say 'I heard a song today, and thought of you.' 'I saw this woman today, and she reminded me of you.' 'I just want to say hey.' 'I miss you.'

And if in a weak moment, you respond...the games begin again. If you sleep with him again, then it will go back to...'I TOLD YOU I don't want a girlfriend.'

Please stay NC.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

This thread isn't remotely about my child. Why would I mention him? 

He's not even met him. He has nothing to do with this conversation.

And by the way...my son is 12 years old and he has met ONE man in his life that I am dating.

I assure you...all my headspace is devoted towards my child and for the first six years of his life I didn't go on a single date fo that reason.

He's a big boy now. He is out every weekend. Mom has a life too


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The nine year age difference between you means nothing. But not in a good way.

It means nothing because his mind is stuck in Junior High.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I don't think he is a bad guy or a player at all. With the little more history you have given, I don't believe he was using you for just sex either. He needs counseling and that isn't your job. Women leave him at the most important times of his life. I agree he has commitment issues, but it isn't like a normal player or young guy who knows better, he has a seriously destructive past. I think he has unresolved abandonment issues. He may like you, but his wall is to thick too get past his own fear.

It is not your job to fix him or wait for him to be repaired. The best thing you can do is cut all ties and tell him he should go see a counselor.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

jsmart said:


> This guy is not a jerk. *He's only taking what he can*.


_...Which. Is. What. Makes. Him. A. JERK!_!


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

OP this relationship is knocking the crap out of your self esteem. That makes it a bad relationship, honestly it's that simple.

He is getting what he wants but you aren't, if he was any kind of a man he would realize the pain this is causing you and cut you loose. But no, he just keeps stringing you along taking what he wants, and will continue for as long as you let him.

You need to dump the guy for your own good.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Yes I know. 

Have decided for sure to do that.

I have just struggled with the logic and all of it not quite adding up but I think have summarised it in my head now

I'm feeling like we are so compatible and what we have is so amazing in so many ways, that I can't help but want a future together. He feels like we are so compatible in so many ways and what we have is so amazing, that he can't help but want a future _night_ together.

So i am misreading his desire for me NOW as an indication of any kind of investment beyond that, and while I am sure he is thoroughly enjoying what he is getting now, bth sex and fun times and cuddles and little trips away - unlike me he has no deeper feelings of care, investment or value in me beyond what he can milk it for now because he has never seen it as anything else.

He is very selfish, and yes, not very decent because he's incapable of understanding my feelings at all and he has manipulated them to get what he wants. He might have told me he never wanted a full relationship, but he definitely played on my heart strings all the way along to make me believe it was more important to him than it was.

I am also even beginning to see the logic in the massive time investment he has put into this. He's 29, wants no girlfriend, but he probably loved spending a year chasing me - I was unnattainable, out of reach, maybe a little vulnerable and in his eyes sexy and fun to be around. And I am sure there were things he liked about me but it was a time filler and a challenge and a fantasy.

I am just a bit part in his little play, and the uniqueness and value of me is invisible to hi

And I know for a fact that he sees me as the big trophy. He knows how many other people want me and he is smug that he's the one who has managed it. And none of that translates to me existing for any purpose beyond feeeding his ego, and need for on and off pretence at intimacy and romance so he feels a little less lonely and a little more loved without ever having to actually risk a thing.

None of which is founded on honestly, vulnerability, or anything of value beyond a meaningless moment. And the only reason it felt so good for me, was that I believed something that wasn't true. And now I no longer believe it - the magic would be gone.

He'd not be my special guy anymore in my eyes.

He'd just be some immature idiot.

So..I was meant to see him tonight, but I won't. I can't really handle any of his big dramas today. So I am just going to tell him I feel sick or something, or just that I feel like being alone. Whatever. 

Then during the week will just let him know like I feel things have run their course nd that the interest on my side isn't there anymore.

Maybe with enough experience over the next 10 years he might grow the heck up a bit.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

jsmart said:


> We men will move heaven and earth to get into your vag. It doesn't mean we want to invest in you as a partner.


And just HOW are women supposed to know the difference?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Woman should know the difference BEFORE they give it up. Time alone is not enough. There should be some form of commitment from the man. 

If a guy has a history of not allowing women into his heart, or is openly telling you he's not looking for a relationship, why give up the precious? That's a serious question. 

In the case of OP, her guy seems like he's not doing the usual push/pull that many men do to woman to throw them off balance. The guy sounds like he was really smitten by OP but just is fighting his heart due to the situation.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Hi everyone.

Just feeling very sick this morning.

Please don't judge me for being a glutton for punishment, but I did see him last night. More than anything just wanted an answer as to why because I hve been hurt so much by it all and wnated to see him talk to me face to face instead of by phone.

We had a very honest, and quite painful conversation, with some hard truths to hear but I think he was as honest as he could be.

So, he came to see me, and we talked and he said that basically it was nothing to do with me at all, but that he was a very logical person who did not beleive in maing decisions with "the heart", he said he didn't even think the expression made sense, and that all of his decisions were made following a logical pattern. He said the facts were that he wanted 3 - 4 children and would like to begin having them in 5 - 6 years, so therefore he was not going to commit to anyone who could not tick that box (I am too old).

I asked him why he had pursued me if he felt that way, and he said that at first it had been because I was beautiful and he had thought it would be a fun experience if he could get a few moments with me and that he had been chasing multiple women at the time with me being his main prize. He said he was going through a phase of wanting to just get out there and have fun and meaningless experiences.

He admitted that once we got together, he had liked me much more than he expected, and that it has aroused emotions and attachment in him that he has tried not to feel and when I am gone (or apear gone) he does feel miserable and doesn't like it - but that regardless of those feelings he would not offer a commitment or "give us a shot" because he thinks there is no happy ending because I fall short of his requirements in a practical sense.

I did ask him that if he was happy with one woman, would he rather be happier with her or with someone he was less happy with because she ticked an arbitrary box and he said he felt there was 7 billion people on earth and he would be sure to find one that he felt like he does about me, but that was a better logical match.

He had only had one girfriend before and he said before he met me he had been pining for her for four years, feeling she was the perfect woman in his eyes and that he wanted to marry her still. He said after about 3 weeks of knowing me, I made him realise what he had with her was not that great because with us the emotions were so much stronger, the sex was better and he was happier. So he said it follows in his mind that after me he will meet someone who made him just as happy and he apologised for seeing so cold and caluclated but that he was just being practical and did not believe any one person was special enough to give up your life plans of a big family 

So he said that in his eyes, I had simply been beautiful, smart, and he had wanted to be with me and he had seen it as an experience along the journey of life. He talked to me about me and how he saw me. I asked him what he liked about me and his face went very gentle and he said that he liked how thoughtful I was and that I always considered other people. He said he loved how emotional I was and how I had such an honest heart because he lacked emotions and I brought his out. He said he liked that I took care of people around me and that I made everyone feel better when I walked into a room. He said he loved the way I always told the truth. He said he liked that I always saw the best and tried to make things right and that he had never met anyone like me before. He said that being around me, even for a short time, has made him a better person. He said because of me he is more honest and wanted to be a better man and he found himself listenting to my voice in his head and that it was changing him and making him less selfish and less cynical.

I cried a bit at that point because it felt nice that he saw me that way, but also sad because he sees me as an experience passing through in his life and nothing more.

I told him you couldn't help who you fell in love with, and he said he could. He said that he has a strong willpower to fight how he feels, and he is able to deactivate from me and switch off. I asked how he did that, and he said various ways. Like shutting down from me and not being available to see me, by ensuring we don't spend too much time together, by keeping his options open with other people. He said he wasn't a robot, and it was hard for him, and that he knew he'd miss me a lot when I was gone but that he had always known I would be gone sooner or later and how could he be that sad when he had known all along I was never his to keep.

He then talked bit about his childhood, and how he was never hugged and always had to look after his alcoholic parents and how he just learned how to shut down completely and feel nothing and he says he still has this capacity. He said he fear of commitment was real, and that it wasn't a line. That he really wants love, feels deeply lonely at times but also feels that love /responsbility will engulf him and that ultimately deep down he isn't worthy of love at all. He said he pursued me because I was so smart and so beautiful an that deep down he doesn't know what I see in him.

He was really honest, and it was hurtful but I appreciated it as it helped me to understand it all better that in his head, regardless of what happens he is never ever ever going to "fall in love" and make a decision with his heart to stay with me so it's helpful for me to know that and understand where we are at.

We stayed up all night talking about this (no sex but hugs). What he asked of me was for us to be together, as we are, with no commitments but just enjoying whatever we have and that he would be faithful, honest and more there for me / open to being closer, if I would agree to it; but that there was never any future. He asked me if I would give him six months of my life, for it just to be us. 

I didn't answer yes or no, but I know obviously the only answer I can give is no  because unlike him, I can't shut down and I want to be loved and to give my love to someone who can /will return it.

I feel pretty sad, I think he's a fool and he doesn't understand life yet. I think he thinks it will be a lot easier than he thinks to find someone else that he has this with, but I guess he has to live his life however he feels is best. I think we are actually already in love and that he's too closed off and immature to really see it but I guess maybe sometimes people don't see things as they are.

I don't think he is evil or a player or a narcissist. I think he's a very hurt man, pretty low self esteem, pretty cynical view of life and himself and others who is pretty selfish and immature - yes - but I do think he cares about me. I don't think he'd have stayed awake all night to talk all this out with me and be so honest if he didn't care. Just not enough!


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

How dare he ask you to waste any more of your precious time on him? What a jerk. This is not indicative of someone who cares about you on any level. He should let you go to find someone who wants and deserves you. He is STILL in it for HIS benefit. Move on girl. You are worth more than this.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

I called him just now at work, and let him know it was over.

All through this, I have come accross as strong and maybe angry at times but never let him see how much he hurt me; and this time I cried on the phone and just let myself be real. I told him that I wanted someone who wanted to be with me 100% and nothing less, and please -could he not call me, show up at my house or send me letters. That I didn't want them anymore and I wnated him to care about me enough to realise how much more I deserve.

He went really quiet, and told me he was sorry and I think he understands now.

I feel really sad, but really relieved also.

Going to take a day off work today and cuddle up in my bed. My son's away at a friends and when he gets home tonight will watch some movies and eat pizza and try and get myself through the heartbreak as fast as I can by realising for sure that this relationship was never meant to be.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

This guy is very selfish, it is all about him and how you made him feel, and his background, and his feelings, blah blah blah. Dump him as fast as you can, he sees in you someone he can use (he could be a narcissist) because to even suggest to you that he will use you till someone better someone better comes along suggests someone who really doesn't have much empathy or interpersonal skills. He will break you heart, cut all contact. 

If you are the beautiful human being (even he can see) then you have so much to offer to someone who is worthy of you and will return your love.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

""I don't think he is evil or a player or a narcissist. I think he's a very hurt man, pretty low self esteem, pretty cynical view of life and himself and others who is pretty selfish and immature - yes - but I do think he cares about me. I don't think he'd have stayed awake all night to talk all this out with me and be so honest if he didn't care. Just not enough!""

I disagree with your quote above, I think he is the very definition of a player/narcissist. Bottom line is he knew what you wanted out of the relationship, and he knew he was never going to give that commitment to you, yet he continued seeing you and sucking up your emotional energy for his own pleasure. He was in it for his own selfish reasons, sex and fun, you were a trophy, he shut himself off emotionally from falling in love but he also shut himself off from caring about your feelings.

In the end he pushed you into a corner knowing full well you would break up with him, that saved him from looking like the bad guy. He even played it out so you actually feel sorry for him, that's a master manipulator at work.

Never ever talk to this man again, he will only hurt you further. I'm sorry to be so blunt with my assessment, I know it sucks to be used and hurt, but you need to protect yourself from him and others like him. I will bet money he will contact you again, do not respond in any way, ever, 100% no contact.

Best wishes


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Yes I suppose if he is capable of shutting off his own feelings he is probably equally capable of shutting off the need to care about mine.

I do appreciate the bluntness, it helps me to recover to see him in a worse light


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I actually think he had some feelings for you but guarded his heart due to the situation. There is a possibility that he has trauma from past relationship and doesn't want to open up. But either way, he not right for you.

You need to gather your strength again. I wouldn't be surprise if he doesn't reach out to you in the next week. The same way you're going to have to endure withdrawal, he's going through it also just not at the same level. It's usually easier for men to detach. 

For now get busy doing something for next few weeks. Set a 3 month achievable goal. Get into the gym, go take a course, join a group of people in activity. Something that will get you out interacting with others so you're not stuck in your head.

I know it's dark today but I promise you, there is a man in your near future that's going to fall HARD for you and sweep you off your feet. This time it'll be mutual.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

bunchesoflove said:


> [...] he was so determined to be with me and over time we grew close as friends *and one thing led to another...*we begun seeing each other romatically.


Bunches, I read your whole post and the responses here thus far. I'm a bit late to your post, but as much as I think this man is no good for you (for reasons already stated), you also need to look inwards at yourself a bit. You seem a very mature and sensible woman. 

I really, really have a difficult time seeing the phrase in bold above, from a man or woman. It actually drives me nuts. We see it here all the time. One thing did not lead to another, you *chose* to be with this man and give yourself to him. He did not brow beat you into anything you did not offer willingly and with all your heart. You made a decision and you felt regret and hurt over what you chose, because the outcome is not as you envisioned. It is a common and human occurrence. We choose poorly sometimes. It takes experience and ownership of past mistakes to know what is right for us moving forward. 

So, a bit of a different sort of advice compared to others. I would not only look outwardly at this man's incompatibility as fault, I would also look inward and own the part that is YOUR responsibility. Be ok with it, don't mentally avoid the part that is yours. Learn to have greater respect for yourself and your boundaries by learning what went wrong on your end, because only you are responsible for your actions. 

This is honestly written with concern at heart, so apologies if it doesn't read as such.


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

jsmart said:


> I actually think he had some feelings for you but guarded his heart due to the situation. There is a possibility that he has trauma from past relationship and doesn't want to open up. But either way, he not right for you.
> 
> You need to gather your strength again. I wouldn't be surprise if he doesn't reach out to you in the next week. The same way you're going to have to endure withdrawal, he's going through it also just not at the same level. It's usually easier for men to detach.
> 
> ...


Thansk jsmart, thanks so much. Made me cry this post, I apprecite it. People have loved me mutully before, I am sure they will again. I booked a counselling session for tonight that should help a little. I will also start to do the suggestions you made and I know I will be okay.

I know in time it will be much better to have stability and not be in a relationship with someone that makes me feel bad


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## bunchesoflove (Jun 7, 2015)

Satya said:


> Bunches, I read your whole post and the responses here thus far. I'm a bit late to your post, but as much as I think this man is no good for you (for reasons already stated), you also need to look inwards at yourself a bit. You seem a very mature and sensible woman.
> 
> I really, really have a difficult time seeing the phrase in bold above, from a man or woman. It actually drives me nuts. We see it here all the time. One thing did not lead to another, you *chose* to be with this man and give yourself to him. He did not brow beat you into anything you did not offer willingly and with all your heart. You made a decision and you felt regret and hurt over what you chose, because the outcome is not as you envisioned. It is a common and human occurrence. We choose poorly sometimes. It takes experience and ownership of past mistakes to know what is right for us moving forward.
> 
> ...


Yeah you know. you're right.

I didn't want my post to be too long and have irrelevant information, but I guess the circumstances of us beginning a romance were quite telling.

I had been dating, but felt nothing for anyone I dated. I felt lonely, I really did, and frustrated that I could not meet someone I felt in love and happy with.

Over that year he was always there, chats, talks and he would always want to help me with things and be there for me and I guess I (selfishly or immaturely) enjoyed that. I could easily have told him to go away.

I never felt any attraction whatsoever to him - not being nasty - he is kind of ugly looking. He looks kind of like a young Smithers from the Simpsons!! He's young, he's quiet. He was nice though. He made me feel safe and I liked the way he was so devoted. It felt romantic to have someone be like that.

Then one night I was involved in an accident, and he stayed up all night taking care of me and he had exams the next day but said he didn't care. He never tried a thing..was just there.

And a few days later I moved house and felt really alone. My son had gone away for the weekend and I was just alone. He asked to come over and I guess he just came in and made me feel so happy and so good and we talked all night and then kissed...you know...it just happenned.

I never planned to fall in love. Just thought it was a bit of fun.

But you're right...a grown woman has to bear some responsibility to start a relationship with someone who said from the start they didn't want one.

I think I have a tendency to believe in fairytales, and I guess I thought this was mine


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## harmonynme (Feb 17, 2013)

Google: "love bombing", you could also very possibly be in a "narcissist's harem", given that you live 2 hours away from one another. These people are master manipulators. And you've hooked one. They find us. Especially when we're lonely, vulnerable, have low self-esteem, and open. Sex is the way in. For both, actually. It's his drug. And he's using right now. And, so are you. The problem is - you want to take it further, to intimacy, to love. He doesn't. It's what keeps it alive, and not boring (for him - because who's else counts?) is no commitment. 

I'm not going to go into the details - cuz I just don't have time today, sorry - of how I know this guy is a narc, but trust me on this one. He's a narc, and he's taking Alice down the rabbit hole. GET OUT. NOW.

It takes alot of hurt and work before you can see the person is not in a place to open their hearts to you because they have work to do on themselves. We’ve all been there. Maybe the chemistry is too strong, they’re so much fun, or they live right up the street and it’s too convenient NOT to date them. Whatever the reason, we dive head first.:x

Fast forward to the moment we realize – somewhere between the snorting laughter and multiple orgasms, we’ve slipped. Our world is smaller. We become obsessed.:nerd: Every thought, action and daydream is about how we can serve our love.Our friends tread lightly, showing us the obvious red flags, but they know we’re in too deep.

Not every person we’ve dated who was clearly wrong for us is a narcissist, but check out these basic characteristics and see if any ring true:

1. Extremely confident.
2. Charming beyond compare.
3. Has many friends of the same sex (a “harem”) – most, if not all are previous lovers.
4. Requires excessive admiration [regularly fishes for compliments, and is highly susceptible to flattery].
5. Plays on sympathy.
6. Is the life of the party. Always “on” – a “people person.”

There’s a catch-22 with dating a narcissist – or even someone who isn’t diagnosed, but just has some narcissistic traits – they’re so much fun and charismatic,> it’s hard to see underneath it all – that they are manipulating our hearts to serve their hungry ego.

I don’t miss the needy, insecure person I turned into, who I’ve fought so hard – for so many years to change.

For some, standing up for ourselves and never settling for disrespect is natural. Then there are people like me, who are still learning to believe we are worth so much more than what we’ve ever allowed ourselves to feel.:crying:

Sometimes holding on give us strength. But when it comes to dating a narcissist or someone with narcissistic traits, we only get stronger when finally get real with ourselves. We need to let go of the belief they can be serious partners.:wink2:

_"If you're going through hell, keep going" - Winston Churchill
_
P.S. can anyone tell me how to add signatures to messages? I'm trying to add a quote to the end of my messages. Looked thru the entire CP, and can't find where to do it. I'd appreciate any help. Thx!


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