# Online infidelity



## JFK1965 (Jan 23, 2015)

I really need advice before I do something rash. My wife and I do not have the best of marriages, she has complex PTSD and it is a daily struggle and puts a great deal of stress on our marriage. Several months ago she reached out to an old boyfriend form 20 years ago when she was 13 to try and fill in some of the gaps from that time period. This was suggested by her therapist. She told me a month ago that they were no longer in contact, I didn't ask, it was information just offered to me.

I have had this nagging feeling though that she was not being honest, and that she was hiding something. She has an alcohol problem and will go on binges, last night was one. After she passed out, I was turning off everything she had turned on, when I went to turn off the computer, her face book was still up and right there, no snooping needed, were messages from this guy of a sexual nature. I of course, looked at the string and she on a nightly basis has been having very explicit sexual conversation with this gentleman for the last month. They have code words when I am out of the room or house or when his wife is not around the computer. This guy lives half way across the country, so them actually meeting is very slim.

I want to confront her, but I am a bit afraid of how she will react, she can become very confrontational when confronted on anything, and uses her PTSD as an accuse. I am afraid that if I confront her, it may become physical, on her part, and she would probably call the cops. I really don't need that in my life right now. It has come to that 2 other times and I had to leave the house and stay in a hotel for a few nights out of fear. 

I was thinking:
1) message the guy, let him know I know, and tell him that if he doesn't cut ties, I will let his wife know, I know they have 4 kids together.
2) actually message his wife and let her know and let it her take this down
3) I am not sure if I want to stay in the marriage and I am starting to plan my exit, so maybe let it be for now and just pretend I don't know
4) Confront her, take the consequences, which could put me in jail fighting false charges.

She has shown real improvement since she got into therapy, but now I wonder, is it really improvement, or is she in a honeymoon period with this guy and it will all crash down once they are no longer an item, and will I be the one that has to deal with the aftermath. Any advise would be of great help.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

JFK1965 said:


> I of course, looked at the string and she on a nightly basis has been having very explicit sexual conversation with this *gentleman* for the last month. They have code words when I am out of the room or house or when his wife is not around the computer.


OP, sorry you're here.

Just to clarify... a married man sexting a married woman is NO *gentleman*.

You should be outraged at her behavior, not in fear of her response, PTSD or not.

Get a voice recorder and record all conversations with her so she can't try to frame you. Better yet, have a third party (friend or relative) present when you confront. She lost the right to any privacy when she hooked up with this guy on the internet. With any luck, she'll be drunk when the police are called, you'll have your recording and your witness showing that she's lying, and SHE'LL be the one hauled to jail.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

JFK1965 said:


> I am afraid that if I confront her, it may become physical, on her part, and she would probably call the cops. I really don't need that in my life right now. It has come to that 2 other times and I had to leave the house and stay in a hotel for a few nights out of fear.
> 
> I was thinking:
> 1) message the guy, let him know I know, and tell him that if he doesn't cut ties, I will let his wife know, I know they have 4 kids together.
> ...


Carry a VAR on you at all times.

If you are even close to doing #3, just start the process now, you can stop it at any time.

I think you may be spot on with the last comment, especially if you feel like she is not that into you, but just better off in general.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

JFK1965 said:


> 1) message the guy, let him know I know, and tell him that if he doesn't cut ties, I will let his wife know, I know they have 4 kids together.


No! NEVER EVER warn the OM that you will expose the affair to his wife. This just gives him the chance to prepare to intercept your messages to his wife, or have his wife block or not accept any messages from you. He will say you're crazy and not to listen to you.



JFK1965 said:


> 2) actually message his wife and let her know and let it her take this down


Best way to expose is to contact the OMW directly.



JFK1965 said:


> 4) Confront her, take the consequences, which could put me in jail fighting false charges.


Buy a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) ASAP and have it on you during the confrontation. Then follow the procedure I outlined in the newbie thread if she decides to get physically abusive and call the police. This is from my post in the thread.

_Have a VAR on you at all times, if you can, at least have a witness with you when you go home. Even better would be to have a VAR on you and have a witness.

If she threatens you that she will call the cops on you, tell her calmly that you will have her charged with false reporting if she tries to lie to them about threatening her or hitting her. Hand her the phone and/or let her call if she wants to.

If she still ends up calling the cops....keep your cool! Do not raise your voice. Do not throw things around or mess up the house. You won't see them drive up because they will park the cruiser a couple of houses down the street. They WILL listen first before knocking. This is standard procedure. So it would NOT be a good idea to be yelling before they knock on the door.

When they knock on the door or ring the doorbell, YOU be the one to answer the door. In a calm voice greet the officer and ask what the problem is. I guarantee you that the cops are on alert and will be looking for a possible fight from you because domestic violence calls are one of the most dangerous calls, and many cops have been killed going into these situations. With you answering the door with a smile and a calm voice, it WILL immediately lower the tension and they will be more likely to listen to you. 

This is usually a 2 officer call, and one of them will be interviewing you and the other will be interviewing your wife, but you will be in the same room so they can watch each others backs. When you answer the door, DO NOT have anything in your hands, even the VAR. They will be watching your hands. Keep them in the open where they can see them. Do not put your hands in your pocket. If one officer is sent, do not be surprised or argue if they temporarily place you in handcuffs, this is for officer safety, because they don’t know if you’re violent or not. Once you show you are calm, non violent, and most importantly, not a threat, then they will likely remove the handcuffs.

If she lies to the other officer and attempts to provoke you in front of them. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT respond. Remain calm!!! The very worst thing you can do is get into a shouting match with her while they are present. Tell the officer calmly that you have a VAR and you can play it for him and ask him/her if you can get it out of your pocket or where ever you have it. Then play it to them to expose her lies.

If you start arguing with the cops or with your WW and raising your voice, moving around, getting defensive, you are raising the tension and looking like the primary aggressor and a threat. Then they will put you in cuffs. And of course during this time the WW will be crying and putting on a show._


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

JFK1965 said:


> I want to confront her, but I* am a bit afraid of how she will react*, she can become very confrontational when confronted on anything, and uses her PTSD as an accuse. *I am afraid that if I confront her, it may become physical, on her part, and she would probably call the cops.* I really don't need that in my life right now. *It has come to that 2 other times and I had to leave the house and stay in a hotel for a few nights out of fear. *
> 
> 4) *Confront her, take the consequences, which could put me in jail fighting false charges*.



I think *this is your biggest concern*, or should be right now.

Why are you with a woman who hits you and accuses you falsely. Violence is never ok in a marriage. *You are married to an abuser *(on top of her inappropriate behavior with this man - yes, that is cheating). 

Why do you want to be married to a woman who hits you? 

I personally like the second option. Just tell his wife on Facebook. Don't even mention it to your wife or the guy beforehand.


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

VAR is good, video is better. If you confront, try to get some video going in the location as well as the VAR and a witness if you can. A witness can be shaky depending on the relationship, but there is no lying about video evidence. Then, after that, never be alone with her, for any reason.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

altawa said:


> VAR is good, video is better. If you confront, try to get some video going in the location as well as the VAR and a witness if you can. A witness can be shaky depending on the relationship, but there is no lying about video evidence. Then, after that, never be alone with her, for any reason.


:iagree:

Definitely agree that video is always better, and if possible, a witness. But she probably won't get physical if she sees a camera or there's a witness.


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Definitely agree that video is always better, and if possible, a witness. But she probably won't get physical if she sees a camera or there's a witness.


Right. The video should be of the hidden variety if capable. a go pro in a convenient location would work pretty well. You dont have to tell her it is there.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

And what is all this complex PTSD all about? It just seems like an excuse for physical abuse.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

If she has parents and you do then ask them both round but inform your parents first of what's she's done

Then confront 

*Only do this if you are sure there has been no contact with the OM*

go on FB and into her FB account and request archive (its in security)
It will be sent to her email; address and all you have to do is unzip it and you will see all conversations she has had with the guy unless she has gone out of her way to delete them from history


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

G.J. said:


> If she has parents and you do then ask them both round but inform your parents first of what's she's done
> 
> Then confront
> 
> ...


I have done this on advice from here, and it still seems like things are missing. Like not all the conversations are there, and I know they were not deleted. It is weird.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

You are married to an abuser and you need IC counseling to resolve your codependency to break free from her. If you were an emotionally healthy man you would not have tolerated her emotional and physical abuse and would have left her. You do nobody any favors by choosing to stay with her.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Is it possible to proactively contact the police and let them know what's going on and that she might be calling them to report a false threat from you. :scratchhead: It must be a real pain to have to constantly live in fear of her reactions to you. I wish you well, but how much more of her intimidation will you put up with? Might not be a bad idea to have someone with you when you confront her, one of her family members perhaps or a friend. That way, it would be extremely difficult for her to falsely accuse. Just a thought.


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## altawa (Jan 4, 2015)

thummper said:


> Is it possible to proactively contact the police and let them know what's going on and that she might be calling them to report a false threat from you. :scratchhead: It must be a real pain to have to constantly live in fear of her reactions to you. I wish you well, but how much more of her intimidation will you put up with? Might not be a bad idea to have someone with you when you confront her, one of her family members perhaps or a friend. That way, it would be extremely difficult for her to falsely accuse. Just a thought.


A person can do that, but it doesn't necessarily carry much weight. Each specific situation is judged on its own merits. That is why I advocate for the video.....it is an unimpeachable witness and there are not any privacy concerns in your own house (i.e., you can put cameras in your own house all you want and dont have to worry about invasion of privacy for occupants with the exception of tenants and rented space and possibly bathrooms depending on circumstances).


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

JFK1965 said:


> 3) I am not sure if I want to stay in the marriage and I am starting to plan my exit, so maybe let it be for now and just pretend I don't know
> 4) Confront her, take the consequences, which could put me in jail fighting false charges.


JFK,

When you get to a point in your marriage where you fear confronting your wife for her infidelity; you don't have much of a marriage.

#3 could be a good option, but only if you've made your mind up to divorce her. Doesn't sound like you have.

Otherwise, #4 is my recommendation; while protecting yourself with a VAR or video, as has been mentioned.

Maybe she'll surprise you and demonstrate remorse for what she's done. Maybe she'll accept the consequences as well. But if she doesn't, you should go back to #3 and work on your exit plan - to get out of this abusive relationship.

Keep posting. You need our help.


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## JFK1965 (Jan 23, 2015)

I have with great interest been reading the post. One poster hit it on the head, I am codependent, and I know it. Let me clear up something, the violence towards me has only been on 2 occasions, and both times she was very very drunk, to the point that after a few swings at me she was passed out on the floor, I know, wrong. My fear is more of her claiming I did something to her, so, I do plan on getting a recorder, keeping it on me, great idea. 

She can be a really cool person, but I don't believe I love her, sad to say out loud, but this is really the first time I have. My codependent nature is to protect her, and nurture her until she is healthy, until she can survive on her own.

That's why this is such a slap in the face, I have been so supportive, and so giving, and to go behind my back like that in such an intimate way...I feel taken advantage of.

I don't think we are a marriage that will last, sad to say, we have been on the rocks since day one, I almost believe that going on to this site, something I have never done before, was an attempt to give me the courage to throw the preverbal grenade into the relationship. I have to stop worrying about what might become of her, and let someone else worry about that, and get back on with my life. 

Thank you


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

tell his wife.

Let her know what is going on.

Then tell you wife to go live the OM.

You will be better off.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

JFK1965 said:


> I have with great interest been reading the post. One poster hit it on the head, I am codependent, and I know it. Let me clear up something, the violence towards me has only been on 2 occasions, and both times she was very very drunk, to the point that after a few swings at me she was passed out on the floor, I know, wrong. My fear is more of her claiming I did something to her, so, I do plan on getting a recorder, keeping it on me, great idea.
> 
> She can be a really cool person, but I don't believe I love her, sad to say out loud, but this is really the first time I have. My codependent nature is to protect her, and nurture her until she is healthy, until she can survive on her own.
> 
> ...


The quote about you've been on the rocks since day one is a killer

If the picture you paint is accurate when in a normal state of mind then you know the course you will be taking

If you take the course I think you are looing at then advice will be better served if you post in the Going through Divorce or Separation section

If how ever you want to try to reconnect with your wife then in these circumstance have both sets of parents present so she restrains from 
violence with a VAR hidden and a camera running in case her set of parents dispute any occurrence at a later date

If she demonstrates remorse and writes a NC letter to the OM verified by your self and sent by you and gives all passwords to her email and 
any other accounts, gets rid of FB (its a cause of a lot of infidelity problems) then you will consider R, until all that is done you will be proceeding 
with D and will see what steps she takes if any to save her marriage

You will of course have to contact the OM wife and make sure she is aware of what has happened

Make sure you back up all texts you have of the inappropriate conversations

And you will have to monitor her very closely for the next year or two I'm afraid

You never mentioned children so I guess there isn't any

Make sure any money that can be taken out with out both signature's is frozen

Talk to a lawyer A.S.A.P.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This was suggested by her therapist? Really? Oh, boy.

Therapist needs to be informed of the results of their dubious advice.

State licensing board, perhaps?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* To hell with an email to him! I'd get his home number and confront! and contingent upon how the conversation went, I'd call his wife and clue her in, or send her a copy of the damning emails/FB postings!

Did you go through your W's cell phone/texting records?

You might consider a vist to a good family attorney to explore your legal rights!*


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

JFK1965 said:


> My wife... has complex PTSD and it is a daily struggle and puts a great deal of stress on our marriage.


JFK, complex PTSD (C-PTSD) is not listed as a disorder in the American diagnostic manual (DSM-5) or in the European diagnostic manual (ICD-10). Because it is not generally regarded as a separate disorder, there is no generally recognized definition of what it is. It therefore is whatever someone chooses to say it is. 

I mention this because, in the few descriptions I've seen for it, C-PTSD is generally described almost exactly like BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Compare, e.g., the 9 BPD traits with those described for C-PTSD at C-PTSD: National Center for PTSD and at C-PTSD at Wikipedia.

C-PTSD has been proposed as a clinical syndrome but, to date, it has been rejected -- by both the American and European psychiatric communities -- as not being valid or useful as a categorical device. Skeptics argue that C-PTSD is simply a re-packaging or duplication of BPD or that it provides no rational basis for enhancing the precision of assessment and diagnosis. Skeptics also argue that adding it to the list of mental disorders does nothing to improve the range of treatment options for individuals whose BPD symptoms and impairment are caused or exacerbated by the complex traumatic stress reactions.

Although I've seen a number of online sites attempting to define the traits for "C-PTSD," I've never found one that makes a persuasive distinction between it and BPD. Importantly, it is known both inside and outside the psychiatric community that therapists generally are LOATH to tell a BPDer client (or her spouse) the true name of her diagnosis (for reasons I explain at Loath to Diagnose). It therefore is common for therapists to tell a BPDer client only the name of a co-occurring "clinical disorder" such as PTSD, anxiety, or bipolar disorder. Indeed, PTSD likely is the disorder mentioned most often for BPDers because a recent study found that about half of female BPDers also suffer from co-occurring PTSD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP. 

I mention all of this to explain why I suggest you take a look at my list of BPD red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. In that event, I also would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional second opinion on what it is you're dealing with. Take care, JFK.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

JFK1965 said:


> I really need advice before I do something rash. My wife and I do not have the best of marriages, she has complex PTSD and it is a daily struggle and puts a great deal of stress on our marriage. Several months ago she reached out to an old boyfriend form 20 years ago when she was 13 to try and fill in some of the gaps from that time period. This was suggested by her therapist.



:scratchhead:

WTF?

What kind of politically correct mumbo jumbo therapy is this?

Let this dipstick therapist know the fruits of his/her/its bullpoop meddling when you fire him/her/it!


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I hope you are not paying your wife's counselor that told her to contact an old flame.

I think you need to make sure she stops going to that counselor.

She needs one that would encourage boundaries, not cheating.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

harrybrown said:


> I hope you are not paying your wife's counselor that told her to contact an old flame.
> 
> I think you need to make sure she stops going to that counselor.
> 
> She needs one that would encourage boundaries, not cheating.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

IKR? Where did that so-called counselor get his credentials? Out of a Cracker Jack box? It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. 

OR

Did she just say the counselor advise her to do this to use as an excuse. Counselling sessions are supposed to be confidential, so anyone can say "the counselor told me to do this".


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## JFK1965 (Jan 23, 2015)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> IKR? Where did that so-called counselor get his credentials? Out of a Cracker Jack box? It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of.
> 
> ...


you maybe right her using it as an excuse, the therapist has been pushing to bring me into a session, but she has been stone walling, I am guessing she has not been upfront with him on things and is afraid I will unravel some of her lies


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## JFK1965 (Jan 23, 2015)

Wow, this is the most eye opening experience I have had in a very long time. I had a relationship very early in my life that I followed my co dependent ways, once I was out of it, I saw a counselor for a bit, and went to al anon and from that point on had 2 very successful relationships, both ended, but not because of falling out of love or any turmoil, but because of family obligations and logistics. How I got sucked into this one...

But what I am realizing, is I am not crazy, it is not me, it is her. Because of her "illness" she has manipulated the co dependent in me, kept me as a plan b, allowed me to project my feelings of her loss into my own internal dialog, as some how my loss. 

I am going to continue my plans to exit the relationship, not disclose what I know, until its over, and not worry about what happens to her. To some it may sound callous, but to the majority that have responded, I think you would agree, it is the healthy option for me.

Thank you for your help!


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