# Separation about to become reality



## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

It looks like a real separation is going to be a reality very soon. I just don’t want to do it – _he_ is the one saying he needs space. Space to find out what he wants and who he really is. He feels lost, like he lost himself somewhere. I know he’s putting most of the blame on my affair, but the way I see it is these are things that have been going on with him for a long time – years even. He doesn’t say what is on his mind if he thinks it might hurt my feelings. He censors what he says or does because if he does something he thinks might hurt me, then *he* feels bad and worthless and like a bad person. And then his self-esteem takes a nosedive… these are issues that go waaay back. But he still is saying that it is the affair that caused it all. I guess there isn’t anything I can do to help him through this process. He still has not said he wants to make things work with me, and I think he’s still hung up on the affair. I hope he can get through to himself and figure things out. 

I understand wanting some time to himself to figure things out. But I hope he will spend that time looking at what is going on with him, and not continue to play the victim in this drama. Yeah, I messed up bigtime and for that I am incredibly sorry. If I hadn’t had an affair, he would still be sweeping things under the rug, not asking for what he needs, feeling bad if he says something that could potentially hurt someone’s feelings, and the problems would still be there, just not so out in the open.

So he wants some space to himself, but apparently can’t get that at home while I’m there. I do not feel I should be the one to move out to give him space, and while I know he will want time with our son, I don’t want to be away from him either. The original suggestion of each of us taking a week at the house with our son is not sounding great to me. I have nowhere to go (he does), and I know that when he is home with the kiddo there will be ZERO time for him to have to himself. I know; we were temporarily separated for 2 weeks last month and I was exhausted by 9:30 and then just went to bed. I don’t want to make things difficult but I think he should stay at his friend’s house and then spend some time with the kiddo now and then. I just don’t want to spend every other week living out of a suitcase, sleeping on my dad’s sofa bed or trying to find a place to stay. 

I’m trying so hard to be supportive and make changes, and he sees them and acknowledges them but still doesn’t trust them to be real. Says that’s not how I was acting for most of the past year. I guess I had to be doing things HIS way right from the start and wasn’t allowed to grieve and get my own **** figured out. He makes it seem like I was cheating on him up until I made these changes and that is so far from the truth. I'm human and made a mistake; why won’t he give me a break and look at his own life too and see what needs changing??

I haven't really cried for a couple weeks. The tears are back though, trying to get out. I just want him to want to be with me... I'm so envious when I read other stories about people reconciling, or realizing they want to work things out. How I want that for me too... :-( I'm so sad right now...


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i don't know your whole story, i will try to go back & read some old posts, but i wanted to send some words or encouragement your way. i am sorry for what you & your family are going through. as someone who has been on the opposite side as you, i can tell you that it does change who you are & he may never be the same, but he may figure out that by being away from you, he wants you back. i don't know but there are many stories like that. have you tried any programs to help your marriage? some are advertised on this site. they claim to help even when the other spouse wants out? good luck!


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

Thank you; I haven't tried any official programs, but I am reading books and we have been in joint counseling since January or so, plus individual counseling. Since he hasn't been able to say that he wants to try to work things out with me, there isn't much point in trying another paid solution at this point, I think.

I hope he can figure things out one way or other. He has been needing to deal with his own issues for years but would never admit to them before. I don't know that he's admitted he needs to work on anything now, actually, but maybe that's what he will do when we are not living together. 

I just have a strong sense that he is done with the marriage and is too afraid to say so, just like he's too afraid to say anything else that might hurt me. Many times I've just wanted to know what he _really _thinks about something, and he won't say, therefore he doesn't get what he wants, and thus begins an ugly cycle that's gone on for years and years. I don't want to lose him - we've been together for 12 years (just had 10 yr anniv) and we were friends and had fun together. Why throw all that away?


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

i agree, 12 years is a long time to spend with someone! it sucks how things work out sometimes. it's like you said, a cycle develops that gives us "reasons" why we did or said something. usually, each partner has a part in the destruction but it's hard to admit sometimes. i have been reading a lot about mort fertel's marriage fitness. it seems to want to fix you as a person in a relationship rather than rehashing all the past happenings in your marriage. i know there was a thread somewhere on here about it. it may be your last chance. ask around & see if anyone has tried it. i just bought the audio cds & haven't got to listen yet. good luck with everything! stay strong!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

What is it that you want?

With all due respect - it doesn't sound like you have much _respect_ for your husband. I don't see how it _can_ work.

My guess is, that you will be able to easily convince him that it is he, and not you that needs to move out. If he stands his ground and says that it's you that needs to go, then he's already taken the first step in standing up for what he wants. Are you prepared to acknowledge that?


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

I do respect him. I think. I read this and did some thinking and some reading and this is what I came up with:

Say you like someone and think they are a good person with many good qualities and enjoy being around them. You also note that this person has qualities that are not _bad_, but could use improvement. For example, they are very passive and don't speak up for themselves in many situations, not just with you. 

In this situation, do you still respect the person even if you see areas for improvement?

And yes, I am prepared to acknowledge it if he asks me to move out. It would be a huge step forward for him to stand up for what he wants. 

You ask what I want. 

I want a husband who stands up for what they want, even if it's not what _I_ want. I want a husband that visibly enjoys being around me and doing things with me or our son. I want a husband who recognizes and verbally acknowledges all the things I do to make our household run smoothly. I want a husband who doesn't just give me a peck of a kiss as he's running out the door each morning but one who tells me in words that he's attracted to me, or appreciates me. "Thank you for cooking dinner" is nice and polite, but "Thanks for cooking dinner, _it was really good!_" would make me feel so much better. I want a husband that shows me in actions that he wants to be with me and values me.

I try to do the same things back to him, as that's how I want to be treated. For now, I am doing things to show him I love him and value him simply because I do, not because I want anything in return. And he is now feeling bad because I'm doing this and he doesn't trust it and isn't reciprocating. He says he loves me, but....

I'm suffering from another bout of really low self-esteem now. I feel like a stupid, petty, selfish b**** . I know I'm not (not usually) but I still feel that way. I don't know what to do.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Leahdorus-



> And yes, I am prepared to acknowledge it if he asks me to move out. It would be a huge step forward for him to stand up for what he wants.


Where is your self-esteem in a statement like that?

You really need to love yourself. You would not have cheated if he had been even half a husband. Why should you move out? If he wants space, let him find it.

In as much as you may have very little to loose, why not change tack and lay down the law? Tell him why you cheated, tell him how unloved you felt, and tell him what a sick puppy dog he is being right now. 

If a man is not going to behave like a man, what use is he to anyone including himself? Sure everyone deserves time to lick their wounds, but he has had plenty of time, and a lot of his wounds were self inflicted.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Leahdorus-
> 
> 
> Where is your self-esteem in a statement like that?


MT, I said I would acknowledge it, and in a twisted way be proud of him for asking for what he wants. But I don't know that I would *do* it...I honestly don't know what I will do when we get to the logistics planning part. If I had a place to go then I wouldn't feel so strongly. I just have nowhere to go, unless I rent a place and that will be very very pricey.

We're all over the map. On Tuesday it felt like the world was ending. On Wednesday, he was in a better mood and was pleasant to me and turned over in bed to hold me as we fell asleep. He hasn't done that in a few weeks. Maybe it was something he discussed in his solo counseling session on Tuesday pm. Rollercoaster ride...sigh


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Leahdorus-

I would not put up with a woman treating me like he treats you. Before, after or even during your affair. Why should you put up with his childishness. If it weren't for the fact that you feel you are the "guilty party", you would be telling him what is what.

Let me ask you something, when the intimacy was lacking _before _the affair did you complain fully, and ask fore more intimacy?


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

MT, I did ask for more, on occasion. A couple times I got in his face (including the one desperate time I stood in front of him naked while he was watching tv and asked him to join me in the bedroom... he told me he wasn't in the mood.  ) and other times he would just fall asleep on the couch. Yeah, I could have tried harder and been more explicit in telling him what I wanted. One time I did and he was completely baffled and said he had no idea... things got better for a couple months after that but then, back to the way it was. It was both of us - me not wanting to ask for fear of rejection again, and him not paying attention to my subtle (and not so subtle!) attempts.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

And I presume you have had zero sex sine the affair?


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

There was no sex for a few months (affair was in Nov 2007) and in recent months, it's been occurring approximately weekly, or at least a couple times a month.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Leahdorus said:


> There was no sex for a few months (affair was in Nov 2007) and in recent months, it's been occurring approximately weekly, or at least a couple times a month.


That's interesting. How come he can bring him self to have sex with you, but hugging and hand holding is such a trial fro him?


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

It's just recently that he hasn't felt like holding my hand in bed. Before the affair, he never held me or my hand in bed, but displays of affection were far more common in public. Now, it's the other way around.

Eh, it's ok. I can't analyze every little bit. Over the past 2 days, I've written a tome that I am debating sending to him. Just not sure when. Maybe tomorrow, after I think about it some more and re-read it. It covers a lot of ground. Nothing he hasn't heard before, but explained more clearly. I hope. LOL


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Just remember how special you are. See if that affects your writing


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

Today was not a good day. Actually, the past couple weeks have been pretty s****y. Today in counseling, I asked the therapist what sort of plan she had for us because I have seen no progress in mending the marriage at all and it's been 10 months of therapy already. By the end of the session, my husband said "I guess I better get off my ass and make this separation happen." I am so angry right now  - angry because he won't give me or the marriage another chance. Angry because for so many years I wasn't getting what I wanted from him and he said we weren't talking to each other when we should have (duh!) and now he doesn't want to be in a relationship with me. I made the mistake of cheating on him, ended the affair immediately when confronted, ended all correspondence w/ TOM after 7 weeks, and by that time, he said he was done and wanted to separate. It took me those 7 weeks to get the affair and the shock of everything out of my system. And then it was too late. 

The counselor talked to us about hiring a mediator (as opposed to 2 attorneys which could make things more contentious) and getting our son a child therapist to help him through things. I let it all out and cried and yelled, asked him where he was for so many years, why he fell asleep on the couch 5 out of 7 nights for years, why he looked at porn but didn't want to have sex with me, why he didn't talk to me about anything. I am so drained right now. I am just so angry at how this all happened, and feel that I've done everything in my power to make changes for the better personally and for the marriage. Counselor agreed that I have done as much as I could. 

I do not want to be a single parent. I did not want a divorce (or even a separation). I did not ever envision this as part of my future. I feel so lost. What do I do now??


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Leahdorus said:


> What do I do now??


Why don't you accept the obvious: That you are worth more than the love he was prepared to show you, before after or during your affair.

I don't understand why you put yourself down, and think so little of yourself. If you had had higher self worth in the first place, you would never have put up with his lack of attention in the first place.

Ask my wife how long I would let her ignore me for without me saying anything... Or vice versa for that matter.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

You're right, MT. I am worth more than what he's been showing me, for a long long time. It's just hard to maintain composure around him and our son, and be pleasant, and accept the fact that he doesn't want a relationship with me. Right now, I want to say "F*** you, just go away" but I know that's just the anger and hurt and it won't help to say that.

I lived for years with a mother who was (still is!) very critical of me, and everyone around her. I didn't get a lot of praise, or support for things I liked to do. Therefore, I grew up with high expectations for myself and others, and am pretty hard on myself. And low self-esteem is part of that. I'm much better now than I used to be, believe me!

So now the trick is to figure out how to remain strong and pleasant and keep working on the things I need to for me, accept that he and I are splitting up, and keep the door open in case that's not where things go long term. These are conflicting thoughts, and hard to hold at one time. Any suggestions, anyone?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Leahdorus said:


> You're right, MT. I am worth more than what he's been showing me, for a long long time. It's just hard to maintain composure around him and our son, and be pleasant, and accept the fact that he doesn't want a relationship with me. Right now, I want to say "F*** you, just go away" but I know that's just the anger and hurt and it won't help to say that.


You know, the point is you don't need to *say *anything. What you *do* need to do, is make up your mind. Once your mind is made up, you are ready for action. And then you... act! 

I don't feel you should even be thinking of giving him another chance so easily without a shopping list of improvements. As I said before, you don't sound like the type who would have had an affair if he had been reasonable. He is of no use to you as a husband the way he is now. He needs to feel the cold wind of loneliness that he is creating for himself.

By the way, what sort of shape are you in? Are you ready for the next contender?


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

> By the way, what sort of shape are you in? Are you ready for the next contender?


I'm in pretty bad emotional condition right now, but physically, I think I'm pretty good looking. Been losing all sorts of weight since this whole thing started, which is about the only good thing to come of this. I've been told I'm very good looking and "hot" for being 40. LOL! It's an ego boost to hear that, but I wanted to hear it from the person I cared about most... too bad he wasn't saying it.

I agree, he needs to feel some of the loneliness. This morning he said "I'm sorry..." as we lay in bed and I said "sorry for what?" as it wasn't clear... he said "I'm sorry I wasn't there for you" - but when he hugged me on the way out the door this morning, the look in his eyes was detached and not warm. I guess he's getting what he wants...

It just SUCKS because it didn't have to be this way!!!


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

Arrrrgh! I am so confused. Tuesday was horrible and I spent all day Wednesday in a high emotional state, crying at the slightest thought. Thank goodness I have a door on my office! 

Last night I made dinner - a new recipe I'd been planning on trying. He came home, and we all had dinner, where he thanked me for cooking and complimented me on the meal. Hmmm. First time he's done that. I wonder if he's reading my posts here. At bedtime, even though he'd fallen asleep watching TV w/ me and we were both really tired, he turned to me in bed and kissed me, and then we proceeded to make love. And spent a few minutes in bed this morning touching each other again, before it was time to get up.

WTF?? If he doesn't want to have a relationship with me, what is all this? I know he's probably confused, but it's really confusing me. I'm not complaining, certainly! I appreciate the attention and the acknowledgment and the sex - a LOT! But it seems to contradict what he'd said on Tuesday about moving forward with separation.

I am just taking each day as it comes, but the roller coaster is really taking a toll on me. I don't know what to think anymore.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Maybe since you let it all out in counseling, he's had time to reflect and is now seeing his role in your marriage at the time. He has been struggling to move past the affair and I'm not saying he will now be able to say 'I don't blame her for the affair based on my behavior at the time' but it may be a step forward for him if he is able to see beyond 'it was wrong no matter what' and start to think more along the lines of 'it was wrong, but I can see that she was in a horrible place.' Maybe he is finally seeing how remorseful you are and seeing more gray in the situation then black & white.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

swedish said:


> Maybe since you let it all out in counseling, he's had time to reflect and is now seeing his role in your marriage at the time. He has been struggling to move past the affair and I'm not saying he will now be able to say 'I don't blame her for the affair based on my behavior at the time' but it may be a step forward for him if he is able to see beyond 'it was wrong no matter what' and start to think more along the lines of 'it was wrong, but I can see that she was in a horrible place.' Maybe he is finally seeing how remorseful you are and seeing more gray in the situation then black & white.


I really hope so, Swedish. I really do. But the next day, and since then, he's been distant again. I can't take much more of this... but I don't want to split up. I really think the problems in our marriage (affair aside) are fixable. I just think he is too scared to make a decision one way or other - he's stuck and can't figure out how move forward (either with me or without).

In the meantime, I am having a VERY hard time with both holding out hope that he will change his mind/decide to work with me on this, and at the same time, letting him go if that's what he wants. I deserve to be happy too, and I'm definitely not getting any "happy" from him right now, nor have been for a long time. I wish I knew how to do both at the same time - care/hope and move on.


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## Mend (Sep 30, 2008)

Your husband is still holding on because I believe he still loves you. He is just hurt and the hurt is getting bigger than his love for you.
Show him that you care and love him despite everything that happened. It may change his decision.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

leah,
i don't know the two links in the above post, but i agree with what is said. i don't wanna pretend that i know what's in someones head, but you know my story, and i'm holding a pretty solid believe that my wife still loves me, and others here believe it too. i will say this: i'm not giving up, no matter where we are. i have an idea. go buy a copy of the love dare. it's the book in fireproof/the movie. give it to him anonomously with a note from a "friend." in the note tell him that you've seen his pain and don't want him to make a decision that's going to prolong the pain. in the note encourage him to "take the dare." you'll know if he's doing it (read the book) i think that stuff works. good luck. never quit trying to save the marriage,


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

Voivod, thanks for the suggestion. However, he's not a big reader, so it's doubtful he'd read it. I gave him the Five Love Languages book for our anniversary earlier this month, and I know he hasn't finished reading "Forgive For Good" that he started back in August. 

I don't want to give up and don't plan to, until he is the one who pulls the plug.

Yesterday, I thought of this analogy, which I may share in today's counseling session. He is stuck at a crossroads and can't make a decision on which path to take. One path (stay and forgive and truly try to make the marriage work) is scary and risky and the other path (separate and/or divorce) is scary and unknown and risky. The divorce path is a one-way street; if he goes down that road, there is no return. If he chooses to take a chance and make an effort, even if things don't work out, he can go back and take the other path as this road goes in both directions. If things DO work out, then yay! 

He tells me he loves me. Sometimes it seems like he's making an effort. Sometimes it seems like he is disgusted to even look at me. And sometimes, he takes me in his arms in bed and we are intimate. *sigh* I'll keep trying.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Leahdorus said:


> The divorce path is a one-way street; if he goes down that road, there is no return. If he chooses to take a chance and make an effort, even if things don't work out, he can go back and take the other path as this road goes in both directions.


I don't want to give you a hard time, but that construct might just be a fabrication existing only in your mind. For instance, I know a divorced couple who got married again - to each other.

It seems like your mind's attempt to bring closure to what has been an endlessly open ended situation for you. I feel for you. 

There must be some way you can crack him open...


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> I don't want to give you a hard time, but that construct might just be a fabrication existing only in your mind. For instance, I know a divorced couple who got married again - to each other.
> 
> It seems like your mind's attempt to bring closure to what has been an endlessly open ended situation for you. I feel for you.
> 
> There must be some way you can crack him open...


Yes, I know that some couples to remarry each other, but that's not the norm. If I go down that path, I don't know that it is open for me again. If there's even a shred of doubt that divorce isn't the right choice, why even go there?

I am trying every way I know to get through to him. Like I said, sometimes I think I see a tiny crack in the armour, then it closes up again.


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## daycaremom (Sep 8, 2008)

I have been on the recieving end of the "cheater" and I have to say that you really p**s me off in many of your posts! Why is it that the cheater says things like he is or she gets to "play the victim" I really don't get that. I really don't understand what you mean by that. 

If you or anyone else is so unhappy in a relationship it is YOUR responsibilty to break it off and not sneak behind your supposid loved ones back and have sex or make a love connection. Really did you not ever consider how this would make your husband feel??? 

Maybe he was depressed and by your own admission he has had problems for years. Does that give you the right to tear his heart out and rip it to shreds and then expect him to forgive you and want to touch you after you have been violated by another man? 

I have accepted my part in the break down of my relationship but I simply refuse to own any part of my H behavior with another woman. You had a choice just like he did and now you seem to be blaming him for all of it. My H didn't give me everything I always wanted either but was I out messing around with someone else??? NO I wasn't.

I'm sorry if you feel like I am taking my anger out on you but I am sick of hearing the cheater sound like "the victim".

I suggest you read Dr. Phil Mcgraws book "Relationship Rescue"
Because it doesn't "blame" anyone it teaches you both how to apprechiate and reconnect with each other. It will also shed some light on your short commings because you have to fix yourself instead of your partner. The only thing you are in control of is you and your own behavior.

I wish you and your hubby love and happiness.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

daycaremom-

I think your last post was un-called for.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> daycaremom-
> 
> I think your last post was un-called for.


Thanks MT. Yes, I just returned from joint counseling and I read your reply, daycaremom. What a great thing to return to. So you made me feel bad - do you feel better by posting that?

I have never blamed my affair on my husband. But he has certainly played a role by being absent for many years, and not communicating and avoiding all conflict. He has only very recently (like today!) started acknowledging that he was not "there" or engaged in being my partner for a long time. So while I cheated, my anger at him is because he is leaving out a huge part of the equation - his role. And if he's just running to friends saying "my wife cheated, poor me" then that's what I call "playing the victim" because he isn't giving the whole story.

I will go and not share my opinions or ask for help here anymore, as clearly my views are too upsetting for some.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Leahdorus said:


> I will go and not share my opinions or ask for help here anymore, as clearly my views are too upsetting for some.


Now don't be silly 

Lot's of people are hurting on this board. I read dacaremom's threads and they go some way to explaining her reaction.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

MT is right. I hope you decide to stay in the end.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> Now don't be silly
> 
> Lot's of people are hurting on this board. I read dacaremom's threads and they go some way to explaining her reaction.


Yes, I read her threads too. But what was the point of lashing out? When I read things I really don't agree with and don't have anything helpful or kind to say, I just keep my mouth shut.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I hope by your hint above that you had a good counseling session today.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

swedish said:


> I hope by your hint above that you had a good counseling session today.


Nice catch, Swedish.  

Overall, I feel good about the session. We talked about the little things that can count as progress and both of us agreed the other has been making some strides. He still will not officially recommit to anything, but agreed that the changes we've been making would go a long way to making things better if he decides to stay. He agreed that communication on his part was lacking for a long time which caused all sorts of problems over the years.

I said that if he does decide to recommit to the marriage that there are changes I would like to see from him. And that I would like to make for him, if he would tell me what they are. We discussed these for a bit and both agreed that they are completely reasonable and would be a huge help in making us feel more connected to each other. 

He will probably take another "business trip" to give him more time to think about things. We don't want to make a major separation/change until we've told our son, and we don't want to tell him until we've got him set up with a child psychologist, who we are waiting on to call us back. I guess I am ok with him taking more time, if it will really help him sort things out in his head. I don't know how long he'll be gone, or when this will happen; still need to work that out.

Counselor challenged him to try to get a little more connected with me to see how things are AND still spend time figuring things out on his own. He was not sure about that, but she said that just by "trying it out" it doesn't mean he is making any decisions. 

I am hopeful but still realistic. I know what I want, and will still take things day by day. Some days I want to just give up, and others I think I can hold out forever.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks for sharing the update. All in all, it sounds positive to me. It sounds as though he is really trying to sort this out for himself rather than just move on in one direction or the other so if he can get past the hurt you will both be in a better place going forward.


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## daycaremom (Sep 8, 2008)

Leahdorus said:


> Thanks MT. Yes, I just returned from joint counseling and I read your reply, daycaremom. What a great thing to return to. So you made me feel bad - do you feel better by posting that?


Believe it or not I did not post this to make you feel bad. I think people spend way too much time feeling like crap. So I do appoligize if you felt bad. I simply read your thread and felt like you were blaming him and you are mad at him because he is having a hard time working through this. 

I can't believe it was all his behavior that made you have an affair. I hope you realize that and spend some time looking in your own backyard. Because whether you make it work with your H or someone else you still need to be at peace within yourself knowing that you are the best person you can be. 

If you have never been on this side of the coin you have no idea of the things that run through your mind. It's not always something that you can control. There are good days and bad days. 

I'm glad things went well for you today and I do truly wish you well.


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