# Trying to accept that my husband will always be a flirt and may cheat



## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

Hi all,

I tried looking for articles around this topic but I always end up with articles like "How to know if your husband is cheating" or things like "How to keep your husband from flirting with other women" or "How to differentiate flirting and cheating", etc - you get the gist.

The thing is, I have been with my husband for 6 years now, married for 2. He has a one night stand that I know of when we weren't married yet and we were on a "cool off" stage. I am certain he may have have a few flirtations in between but I don't think it was ever more than maybe exchange of messages on Facebook or Whatsapp/Viber or maybe a one lunch with a coworker.

Okay. my issue is - my husband is such a ladies man, and probably why I was attracted to him too. Everyone likes him, because he is very charming, pleasant to look at, has a way with words and women and he gets along quite well with men too. Now, he is admits he can't help himself when he sees an attractive lady but to just say hi and chat. He will inform them later on he's married but this would have been after they had exchanged names or maybe the girls adds him up on Facebook etc. Now this part - I am not quite privy too unless he tells me about them or I catch him doing this. Otherwise, I am not happy to be a wife that snoops around looking.

Now I am okay with this but how do I handle and accept that he will always be like this and there may be a chance he will act on it, and eventually cheat on me. I love him. And I accept him for everything he is. And I want to understand where he's coming from and I dont want to change who he is because that would be unfair too as I met him like that. I want to "get real" and understand that marriages are hard work and there's a lot of acceptance involved in both parties.

Dont get me wrong - he is a great husband. I feel loved. He is a great provider and supports me in whatever I do.

Please help me - I am a young wife and I dont know where to go to and confide to since we're not exactly a couple that tells our families and friends about out marital problems.


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

Julie,

Don't "accept" something that should be forbidden. You have every right to demand that he respect you to the point of defending your marriage. He's leading other women on if he doesn't tell them that he is married until after exchanging phone numbers or friending on social media, etc. What he is doing is baiting them to see whether or not to reel them in. It's a game called "the chase" and he obviously enjoys doing it.

I was hit on just last night while out dining with my 24-year-old daughter. I slid up to the bar to ask for a menu and was immediately "pounced on" by a woman who obviously had already sized me up. Asked me to buy her a drink (which I declined) and immediately went back to the table where my daughter was waiting. Laughingly told her what had just happened (and not nearly the first time to occur for me).

The difference is that I don't enter into casual banter with women when I see that it starts to veer towards flirtation. I immediately shut it down and certainly don't exchange phone numbers, emails or any other social media exchanges. I don't because I hold the sanctity of our marriage and the respect of loyalty to my wife at the highest level. I don't even want there to be an appearance of disloyalty.

Demand the same of your husband. You deserve it and he is totally disrespecting you and your marriage for continuing his flirtatious behavior. He is being completely selfish and dismissive of you that will eventually come back to haunt you. Put an end to it now.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

In essence, you have to make the pain not worth the behavior. Well, you will not know until you detach and see if he does change or not. It is predicated on him choosing to do so as well.

Autopilot is right, he is continuing the behavior because he does not fear or think there are any consequences, he is only thinking about what he is getting out of all of this and your feelings and emotions are not enough to deter that type of behavior. Odds are, he is not thinking much about you when he is doing what he is doing. He is getting his ego stroked and feels secure that he has a wife that so far has not done much to him about it.

Curious though, what are your opinions if he found you flirting with other men and friending them on facebook? If he is going to be a hypocrite about it, then you have to wonder why he is okay with himself and not you as well. If he is okay with it, then you both have a difference of acceptable behavior that you have to decide on.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

hi autopilot and Mr.Fisty, thank you for responding to my lengthy post. I am so bothered for quite a while now.

I had a long and "mature" chat with my husband the other day. I was telling him how I felt that what was happening and what he's doing is wrong. But to him he felt like he was just "being himself" like when I met him as he's always been friendly to ladies in general. He admitted yes, it strokes his ego that they get attracted to him despite being married and he thinks, that's about it - but also he said, in a "mature" way, that he can't promise me he will never ever act on it as he says people make mistakes. What do I do as a wife then? He posted this as a question to me.

See, I only found out about the lady when I looked up his history on his computer. Saw he visited the lady's page etc. He's not added her or anything but she apaprently messaged him being like, "are you married?" (this was after they got acquainted initially). Then he said yes and the girl was like, "okay, then we can be friends." So after that she goes on to invite him for drinks, etc. He didn't agree to go because that's where he "Drew the line" and thought that I may not appreciate that as a wife. All else, he thinks he didnt do anything wrong since he told the lady he's married and never went out with her anyway.

Now for me, I dont want to be the wife that would check out on whatever her husband is doing or where he is etc - I dont want that to eat me up. 

What's troubling is now I feel like I need to be able to accept this as part of him - the man I married in the first place. Am I wrong? Is he wrong? I did vow to love him for everything he is and this is part of him. I dont want to be the person to "change" him.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

Mr.Fisty - if it were the other way around, he told me he'd just accept me as I am. He said he believes that if I find solace in someone else and that was was something I needed in my life, he'd accept me still in the end. For him, as human beings, we just find what we need in different people all throughout our lives so it's impossible to think that you marry one person and that person will be the end all and be all of your humanity.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

How do I detach myself and make him feel the consequence without having to leave? I dont want to leave. I just want to get my point across that what he's doing is not right by me.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Well, then you have your answer. You are married to a man with a different lifestyle than yourself.

I have poly friends that feel the same way. If Depending on each poly person, I have one that believes if his gf finds a more compatible man, he would be okay being secondary or if she chose to leave him, he would wish her the best as their relationship has run its course.

The fact is, everyone is different and they are okay with different boundaries. Who knows, perhaps your husband would be okay with sharing your love and affection with another man or men.

I have a friend that dates between 5 to 7 women at a time and that he is happy with that lifestyle.

I am in an open relationship for the past year myself where the boundaries are we do not start a relationship with anyone else and only when the other is not available to meet the others sexual need as we both are career-orientated.

You get my picture, each and every one of us has a preferrable lifestyle and we find mates that match us.

So, you have a man that is okay with an open marriage and that is something he probably should have been honest with. Odds are, if you leave him, he is likely to move on.

Perhaps you should have an open and honest communication about your marriage and its boundaries.

If this is something you cannot live with, and if this is something he would want more than the marriage, then the answer is easy, you are at an impasse and neither of you can be happy together.

But, you do not know until you communicate and try and compromise and if it does not work out, then you are only hurting yourself by staying with him and he would hurt himself staying with you.

The options are you adjust to him, he adjusts to you, you both find a compromise where the relationship might beopen or open to a one-sided open marriage, and the last option is leaving. That is it, you cannot change him and he cannot change you.

The only time a relationship is wrong is when it hurts the people involve.

So, would you be okay if he were open and honest and what would you do if he ask to have sex with another woman? As I stated, we are all diverse and so is our mating habits.

Btw, love is not guarantee to last forever or even a long time. Just like a person can fall in love the reverse is possible. Nor is love static, it can grow and it can go extinct.


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

juliemac said:


> he felt like he was just "being himself" like when I met him as he's always been friendly to ladies in general.
> 
> he can't promise me he will never ever act on it as he says people make mistakes. What do I do as a wife then? He posted this as a question to me.
> 
> What's troubling is now I feel like I need to be able to accept this as part of him - the man I married in the first place. Am I wrong? Is he wrong? I did vow to love him for everything he is and this is part of him. I dont want to be the person to "change" him.


I don't want to sound offensive when I write this, so please understand that I'm trying to be sensitive about your dilemma.

Of course he was being himself when you met him because that's what drew your attention to him. I don't think that you would have been attracted to him if he had been a "knot on a log and boring".

He did promise to be true to you (didn't he?) when you made your marriage vows to each other. If he is telling you that he doesn't know if he can be faithful to you and that you should accept his behavior if he is not is a HUGE issue. Basically, he's saying that he will be unfaithful to you. Deal with it or not. He is already railroading you because he doesn't think that you will do anything about it.

You don't need to accept this behavior because the man you "married in the first place" WASN'T MARRIED. He did change because he went from single to married when he said "I do." That is certainly not expecting too much from him.

His attitude shows his lack of respect for you. He is saying "I'm going to do and act however I please. I know you're not going to do anything about it, anyway, so I'm not going to worry about it." What a jerk!

And, yes, I know all about those temptations because I've been hit on more times than I can count. I've been told how attractive I am, how physically fit I am, how I am such a gentleman like no one else they've known, brazenly been fondled at events and handed notes with phone numbers, you name it and it's been attempted. Does it make a man feel good to know that he's desired? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that you encourage or reciprocate it as a married man. Quite the opposite, you extricate yourself from the situation post-haste.


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## AcerRubrum (Apr 3, 2016)

Make it your purpose to be the wife he wants to go home to every night. My wife is my best friend and lover. At the end of the day when I am done at work she is the first thing that I think of. I am also a outgoing person and I talk with everyone. At the end of the day though, she is who I want to spend my nights with. I have been married going on 19 years. Because of our mutual respect for each other, my desire for her has grown more over that time. Give him all the right reasons for him to want to come home to you. Be confident in who you are as a wife and woman that he wants to be with you. Court him like you did you were first getting to know each other. I would tell him the same thing. I still pursue my wife every day.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

juliemac said:


> Now, he is admits *he can't help himself* when he sees an attractive lady but to just say hi and chat.


So he does this ONLY w/ _attractive_ ladies?

That's odd.

Either way, this (the part in bold) is a lie.



juliemac said:


> He will inform them later on he's married...


Does he not wear a wedding ring?



juliemac said:


> ...but this would have been after they had exchanged names or maybe the girls adds him up on Facebook etc.


Inappropriate.

I won't bother quoting the rest of it, but your husband is doing more than "just flirting".

So you can either accept that or not.

"Snoop" if you want. In fact, that you've used that terminology would seem to suggest that he's not exactly transparent w/ his phone, devices, accounts, etc.

Either way, if you look, I can guarantee that you'll find evidence of way more than "just flirting".


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

autopilot said:


> I don't want to sound offensive when I write this, so please understand that I'm trying to be sensitive about your dilemma.
> 
> Of course he was being himself when you met him because that's what drew your attention to him. I don't think that you would have been attracted to him if he had been a "knot on a log and boring".
> 
> ...


Appreciate you being straight with me. In fact I like it more than if you were to fluff around it.

When I brought up the "but we're now married" card, he asked me, so is that all the difference? That we signed a paper and all of a sudden I should change who I am? And I was taken aback because it'r right - I dont want to be someone who will push him to change who he is. 

See, I dont feel like he spend less time with me nor does he "disappear" on me and such. That's why I'm never worried anyway. It's just that when he goes about his day and maybe he meets women at work or wherever he is, then I'm not aware of those. 

I still feel loved all around, we spend so much time together as well so I have no complaints in that aspect. There are no weird transactions on our account etc. So I'm a bit sure no sexual things have happened. 

It's the "it may happen in the future" that bothers me and in this case, should I be putting my foot down? I dont want to push him away by stifling him (yes, he feels miserable when I start interrogating and prying about the "friends" he meets).


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> So he does this ONLY w/ _attractive_ ladies?
> 
> That's odd.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's a possibility. And my issue is, how do I fully wrap my head around this and accept it if I feel otherwise?


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

AcerRubrum said:


> Make it your purpose to be the wife he wants to go home to every night. My wife is my best friend and lover. At the end of the day when I am done at work she is the first thing that I think of. I am also a outgoing person and I talk with everyone. At the end of the day though, she is who I want to spend my nights with. I have been married going on 19 years. Because of our mutual respect for each other, my desire for her has grown more over that time. Give him all the right reasons for him to want to come home to you. Be confident in who you are as a wife and woman that he wants to be with you. Court him like you did you were first getting to know each other. I would tell him the same thing. I still pursue my wife every day.


I had this ideal too but my husband has told me that having this but him on a pedestal that he cant make any mistakes and puts so much pressure on him. He says he appreciates my loyalty and all but in the real world, he says people makes mistakes and so it's a matter of accepting them after.

To be fair, no sexual relations have been committed, not yet. My issue is how to accept that this will be him forever.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

juliemac said:


> Yes, that's a possibility. And my issue is, how do I fully wrap my head around this and accept it if I feel otherwise?


Sooo... basically, you're trying to find a way to be OK w/ continuing in marriage w/ a serially wayward husband?


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... basically, you're trying to find a way to be OK w/ continuing in marriage w/ a serially wayward husband?


Yes, if you put it that way. I also really want to get other people's opinion on this. I actually thought I was too idealistic to expect that much faithfulness from my husband when he said that marriage is hard work and it's about accepting your partner's flaws and in this case, this is his.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

juliemac said:


> Yes, if you put it that way. I also really want to get other people's opinion on this. I actually thought I was too idealistic to expect that much faithfulness from my husband when he said that marriage is hard work and it's about accepting your partner's flaws and in this case, this is his.


Oh dear Lord.

You poor, poor girl.

Being married to this guy is going to be so hard on you.

Best of luck to you.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

juliemac said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I tried looking for articles around this topic but I always end up with articles like "How to know if your husband is cheating" or things like "How to keep your husband from flirting with other women" or "How to differentiate flirting and cheating", etc - you get the gist.
> 
> ...


You shouldn't accept it at all. It is inappropriate and disrespectful. He is married he needs to act like it. Sounds to me like the team captain of the high school football team who never moved on type of person. He is also showing you that he "can have any woman he wants and aren't you grateful that he chose you so behave or he will find someone else." Being a good provider is not the same thing as being a good husband. He should be more aware and considerate of your feelings, these dalliances can be a prelude to an affair.

Good luck!


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

juliemac said:


> Mr.Fisty - if it were the other way around, he told me he'd just accept me as I am. He said he believes that if I find solace in someone else and that was was something I needed in my life, he'd accept me still in the end. For him, as human beings, we just find what we need in different people all throughout our lives so it's impossible to think that you marry one person and that person will be the end all and be all of your humanity.


Oh bull, he would not. He would be having a royal fit.

He thinks you should appreciate that he drew the line?!?! He should not have been in the position to draw a line in the first place! He is doing wrong and he is shifting the blame to you-don't let him. He was like this when you married him, sure, but he also should be growing up.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Oh dear Lord.
> 
> You poor, poor girl.
> 
> ...


Well I thought perhaps I was just too loyal, I suppose. And maybe in real life, this isn't what I should expect from him. So a part of me wants to accept it wholely and know that this is what I have to live with the rest of our lives. Another part of me is also thinking, "but this is not me...this isn't what I believe in...but maybe I'm too idealistic?"

Hence why I put it up here too, to get other people's opinions on it. I mean, I do want our marriage to work but what else can I do if his beliefs are different from mine. I dont want to think when we married he wanted to cheat on me - I think he thought to himself as well that "whatever happens" he will always go back to me.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Well, then you have your answer. You are married to a man with a different lifestyle than yourself.
> 
> I have poly friends that feel the same way. If Depending on each poly person, I have one that believes if his gf finds a more compatible man, he would be okay being secondary or if she chose to leave him, he would wish her the best as their relationship has run its course.
> 
> ...


Do you have friends who are poly and are married? How does that work out?


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

WhyMe66 said:


> You shouldn't accept it at all. It is inappropriate and disrespectful. He is married he needs to act like it. Sounds to me like the team captain of the high school football team who never moved on type of person. He is also showing you that he "can have any woman he wants and aren't you grateful that he chose you so behave or he will find someone else." Being a good provider is not the same thing as being a good husband. He should be more aware and considerate of your feelings, these dalliances can be a prelude to an affair.
> 
> Good luck!


Quite true, he grew up being a "heartthrob" and that girls always liked him. And so, this is how he has been all his life. Maybe partly why I can kinda see where he is coming from? 

I am scared if I put my foot down and tell him this has got to stop, then I might drive him away more.  That's not what I want.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

juliemac said:


> Quite true, he grew up being a "heartthrob" and that girls always liked him. And so, this is how he has been all his life. Maybe partly why I can kinda see where he is coming from?
> 
> I am scared if I put my foot down and tell him this has got to stop, then I might drive him away more.  That's not what I want.


I can understand that, I am in the middle of a messy heartbreak situation myself, but you have to put your foot down. You really don't want to spend the rest of your life living with "I wonder if he is doing her?" or "Who is he chatting up now?" And the constant threat of catching some STD because he wasn't careful. Or he hooks up with someone who is a few sandwiches short of a picnic basket and she goes full on "Single White Female" on you.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

You have to be true to yourself. It makes you unhappy what he does.

First you need to get boundaries in place with him as for what is acceptable and what is not. If he is unwilling to agree to those boundaries or if he agrees but violates them then

You need to tell him that you can no longer accept his behavior. Also, don't feed his ego and tell him anything about being handsome, etc. 

Going 1:1 with other women and not telling you? You already know why it would make someone want to hide that information.

Do you have guy friends that you can get to text you and send you messages? I am willing to bet your hubby won't like the male attention you get and his level of empathy will increase 10X when you do the same thing. So often people like this don't like the same thing done to them. 

You are going to have to force the issue. I'm serious, start texting a lot of guys and adding them on FB and letting them comment about out. Tell your hubby, "he Joe keeps asking me to dinner" and see how he reacts.

A lot of the ways to fix this are counter intuitive to what you think. And stop being a door mat.



juliemac said:


> Quite true, he grew up being a "heartthrob" and that girls always liked him. And so, this is how he has been all his life. Maybe partly why I can kinda see where he is coming from?
> 
> I am scared if I put my foot down and tell him this has got to stop, then I might drive him away more.  That's not what I want.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

jdawg2015 said:


> You have to be true to yourself. It makes you unhappy what he does.
> 
> First you need to get boundaries in place with him as for what is acceptable and what is not. If he is unwilling to agree to those boundaries or if he agrees but violates them then
> 
> ...


Am I being a door mat wanting to accept my husband's ways? 

Should I play the game as well? I don't want to "kind of" cheat on him too for what? To get back at him? 

I'm really losing it - have no one to speak with. I want to tell his parents about it so maybe they can help me out but I can also imagine he will be sooo angry with me if I did that. 

I am hoping this is just a phase. But again if it is and it can recur, that's when I thought maybe I should just suck it up if I want this to work.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

juliemac said:


> Am I being a door mat wanting to accept my husband's ways?
> 
> Should I play the game as well? I don't want to "kind of" cheat on him too for what? To get back at him?
> 
> ...


Do you want to be in an open marriage?? Are you willing to do it just to make your husband happy? If he said that he might cheat on you in the future then he WILL or he has. If this is how he was when you met him then it is not a phase, unfortunately this is who he is. Don't play the 'game' because what is that going to accomplish? 

He knows you won't leave him. You have to set boundaries for him and set up consequences if those boundaries are broken. He is a married man and has no business chopping it up with any other woman that's not his wife. 

How old are the two of you? Maybe he's going through a midlife crisis and wants to see if he's still 'got it'?


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

We're in our 30s...but we've been told several times before that we're more mature than our contemporaries.

when I say I met him like this - as I he's quite gregarious and always makes friends and is used to being in groups. 

Maybe I should bring it up too that - we have recently moved cities and so we both don't have friends we hang out with on a constant basis. And for me that was okay. I'm fine, because I'm an introvert in a way (hello online forums). For him, maybe he's bored?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

juliemac said:


> Appreciate you being straight with me. In fact I like it more than if you were to fluff around it.
> 
> When I brought up the "but we're now married" card, he asked me, so is that all the difference? That we signed a paper and all of a sudden I should change who I am? And I was taken aback because it'r right - I dont want to be someone who will push him to change who he is.
> 
> ...


Well, actually, yes. Signing that piece of paper DOES make all the difference!

Perhaps your husband is, in reality, not mature enough to get the concept of marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

Juliemac
I am going to be very honest with you.
I married a man almost exactly like your husband. 
Very good looking...flirty...outgoing. All of his friends were girls but I did trust him so whatever I thought.
We got married and the first few years were great. He had always flirted around with other women but it seemed to end when we got married. I took it as a sign that he was taking This seriously and truly respected me. We have our first child. That's where things started to unravel.
Then we had our second and at that point he took his flirty...somewhat inappropriate behavior to the next level and cheated.
He's had a few EAs since then and yet I am still there because we have kids who are very young. I chose to stay for a number of different reasons. 
However if I had been without kids we would be done completely.
This behavior is completely not appropriate. 
The problem with this is flirting leads to talks and talks lead to serious discussions and serious discussions lead to EAs. Only a matter of time before it does turn completely physical.
I know exactly what you are feeling and that feeling will get worse. And you will allow yourself to be trampled on because you are allowing yourself to be walked over now. Don't stand by and let it happen and escalate to what happened with me
Tell him that marriage is serious. Tell him marriage means you devoted to one woman. Tell him it is extremely hurtful to talk to other women. Flirt with other women. Tell him.
Have a serious conversation about it.
You have to.
Because when kids come into the mix and he feels a bit left out because you have to devote more time to the kids he is going to turn to these women.
Gus said that this marriage is going to be hard on you...it will be. And you will wake up one morning and not know yourself.
Don't let that happen.
I hope you can work it out...and last piece of advice. Leave his parents out id it. This is between you and him. 



Sent from my iPhone


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> Juliemac
> I am going to be very honest with you.
> I married a man almost exactly like your husband.
> Very good looking...flirty...outgoing. All of his friends were girls but I did trust him so whatever I thought.
> ...


Hi citygirl thank you thank you for your response. I do think he is really trying his best to stay away and not get tempted when we first lived in and then decided to get married and you're right, this does make me feel like he's getting serious about us and marriage. 

It's just that lately all of a sudden he has these feelings that he needs new friends ( we moved to a new city) and it just so happens that maybe he's a lady charmer too. 

Your post made me a bit sad. Because in my heart I still want to believe maybe it's just a phase, maybe he's just stressed at work and so he's looking to find validation somewhere else, I don't know. So I want to give him the benefit of a doubt. 

Are you still with your husband? When you tried to tell him how you felt about his flirtatious ways, what did he say? How did he respond? 

Thanks for reminding me not to get his parents into the picture - you're right. I'm just feeling so desperate to have someone on my side right now.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

^ plus we have plans of having a baby by next year too so...now I'm having second thoughts? ?


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> juliemac said:
> 
> 
> > Appreciate you being straight with me. In fact I like it more than if you were to fluff around it.
> ...


Hi Matt, yeah perhaps. But what kind of wife am I if I just "give up" on him like that? But I also don't want to be disrespected  if we were just boyfriend and girlfriend, I know I can leave him. But we're married and I want to keep my part of the promise.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Having sex with a person who is not your spouse is not a mistake. It is a poor & selfish decision. Nor is it preordained just because he doesn't know the meaning of boundaries. What it is, is cheating and preparing you for it beforehand is an attempt to get you on board with his devastatingly charming self and forgive him for his mistake(s?). What he is doing is called a self-fulfilling prophecy. He knows he's going to cheat because he wants to and he fully expects you to forgive these little mistakes.

Tell him that a mistake is wearing one blue sock and one brown sock. Sticking his penis in another woman is a poor decision that will leave him looking for a new cook and housekeeper. His constant need for validation via women is a sign of immaturity and arrogance.

Actually, I'm a little surprised that you (a woman in her 30s) would even entertain trying to hang on to a man like this. There are better men out there! He seems to think that he isn't going to keep you for the long haul anyway.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

juliemac said:


> Hi citygirl thank you thank you for your response. I do think he is really trying his best to stay away and not get tempted when we first lived in and then decided to get married and you're right, this does make me feel like he's getting serious about us and marriage.
> 
> It's just that lately all of a sudden he has these feelings that he needs new friends ( we moved to a new city) and it just so happens that maybe he's a lady charmer too.
> 
> ...




I am still with him.
I have a number of reasons to stay with him....to each their own. We work on it every day though. Some days are better than others. 
I kept thinking it was just a phase too...but it didn't turn out that way.

I stupidly did not have that talk until he actually cheated on me...he said he'd try to change. And he is trying....we have defined boundaries and I don't accept anything less.
You have to figure out what you are comfortable with really. Are you ok with how things are? Obviously not or you wouldn't be here.
First step if you want to stay with, and it sounds like you do, is to talk to him and get across how not ok you are with flirting with other women. Define a boundary and stick to it.

I thought it was a phase too...and then I thought it would change after we had a baby. And then it didn't. Because I let it keep happening and he thought because I didn't say anything then why change and then he thought he was actually doing nothing wrong.

Seems like you love him so talk to him and see what happens with that talk.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

juliemac said:


> Mr.Fisty - if it were the other way around, he told me he'd just accept me as I am. He said he believes that if I find solace in someone else and that was was something I needed in my life, he'd accept me still in the end. For him, as human beings, we just find what we need in different people all throughout our lives so it's impossible to think that you marry one person and that person will be the end all and be all of your humanity.


That is a crock of s*** and he knows it too because he also knows you would never do that to him so he can throw around statements to this effect. 
Perhaps you should call his bluff and play him at his own game, though if you have to do that or live in fear of him cheating, it will eventually create so much stress and distress for you that it would be better not to be married. 
If he is unwilling (and it seems so) to put your mind at ease as his wife then you should consider contacting a lawyer as this is not a way to live.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

juliemac said:


> ^ plus we have plans of having a baby by next year too so...now I'm having second thoughts? ?


Do not do it, do NOT have a baby with this man, you will be trapped in an unloving marriage, miserable and sacrifice yourself for the children. You should be plain speaking with him and tell you have reconsidered children, as you do not think he will be the kind of man who will be there for you when you need him as he will be too busy flirting and whatever else with other women. 
You really have to consider leaving this man and finding one who will love and cherish you the way you should be. Remember it is no fun for children to be brought up by an unhappy mother.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

juliemac said:


> Hi Matt, yeah perhaps. But what kind of wife am I if I just "give up" on him like that? But I also don't want to be disrespected  if we were just boyfriend and girlfriend, I know I can leave him. But we're married and I want to keep my part of the promise.


The kind of wife who is strong enough to stand her ground. You'd be *that* kind of a wife! 

What kind of wife will you be, Juliemac?









or









"He cheated on me. He moved on. Well, I *made* him move on!"


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

juliemac said:


> Well I thought perhaps I was just too loyal, I suppose. And maybe in real life, this isn't what I should expect from him. So a part of me wants to accept it wholely and know that this is what I have to live with the rest of our lives. Another part of me is also thinking, "but this is not me...this isn't what I believe in...but maybe I'm too idealistic?"
> 
> Hence why I put it up here too, to get other people's opinions on it. I mean, I do want our marriage to work but what else can I do if his beliefs are different from mine. I dont want to think when we married he wanted to cheat on me - I think he thought to himself as well that "whatever happens" he will always go back to me.


You're not being loyal, you're being naive and a doormat.

He is being disrespectful. To you and the marriage.

Ironically enough, the two of you have a similar issue - lack of self esteem. It's just manifested in two distinctly different ways.

He's effectively told you he's probably going to cheat on you at some point in the marriage, and you've barely blinked. If I said something like that to my wife, she'd tell me to get the F out.

You need to take stock of your own self worth, first and foremost. To want to accept something like this tells me you don't feel that you can do any better. Perhaps you've already written out a pro/con list about your husband. Even if there's 48 things on the Pro side, that 1 Con cancels out all of the "good".


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

juliemac said:


> Am I being a door mat wanting to accept my husband's ways?
> 
> Should I play the game as well? I don't want to "kind of" cheat on him too for what? To get back at him?
> 
> ...


This is another situation that exposes the lie that has been repeated to people so often, they actually start to believe it...You can, and deserve to have it all. Well, no you can't.

He is not compatible with your vision of marriage, nor with most peoples. It was unfair of him to marry you, and really, he doesn't seem to be the traditional marrying type

Unfortunately, you are not terribly unique in that it seems that the very things that attracted you to him, also attract a lot of other women, and likely always will. You recognized this early on in your relationship, yet continued anyway, leaving the brutal question...what did you expect?

You can only make your feelings known, and control your own actions and reactions. How is your own self esteem? Do you feel he is out of your league? Does having the hot, charming, desired husband stroke your own ego enough that you will continue to endure the conflicting feelings?


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

Julie,

Are you hearing what everyone is saying here? Not one person has said that his behavior or attitude is alright...not one.

I also wondered how old y'all were and assumed that you must be young (early 20s or so). I was shocked to hear that you both are in your 30s because he sounds so immature (and so do you for trying to rationalize all of his B.S.).

He obviously isn't mature enough to have married because he doesn't understand the word "commitment". Marriage is much more than "a piece of paper" as you wrote he said but is a legal commitment to you and no one else.

I cannot believe that you would be willing to put up with such intolerable behavior (unless you were willing to have an open marriage which sounds like you aren't). He doesn't care about your concerns because it's all about him and what he wants. You've only been married for a couple of years. Throw kids into the mix and he will become a real a**hole.

You should be angry that he doesn't love or care for you enough to want to protect you and your marriage. His job as a husband should be to make you feel safe and secure. He's telling you that he doesn't give a rat's a** about what you think or feel, whether you sink or swim or that anything you want or need matters.

Unfortunately for you, this issue should have been dealt with long before now. It sounds like you saw it coming and married him anyway. He doesn't sound like he is the marrying type and yet here you are.

I'm sorry to say that you will be in for a long and miserable marriage because it will only get worse as time goes by unless you can convince him that you are worthy. You also need to convince yourself of your own self-worth. Go to the gym, get involved with community outreach, join a social or religious group. Do something to improve your self-image independent of him. Get your MOJO back and know that you are special...and that he is not.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

alexm said:


> You're not being loyal, you're being naive and a doormat.
> 
> He is being disrespectful. To you and the marriage.


True. True



alexm said:


> He's effectively told you he's probably going to cheat on you at some point in the marriage, and you've barely blinked. If I said something like that to my wife, she'd tell me to get the F out.


Likewise, if my SO said the same, first I would laugh hard enough to bring tears, and then I would say STFU and GTFO


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You need to listen to the posters here. Your husband and you have different expectations on your marriage. He does not believe in commitment to your marriage. He informed you that he will not change.

My husband was a tall and skinny kid up to his mid twenties. In his mid twenties and up to his fifties, he turned women's heads around. This was new for him. He commented once on how one of my friends is so stunning and beautiful. We were only months married at that time; 22 (me) and 24 (him). I never hung around with that friend again. I informed my husband that if he ever cheated (emotionally or physically), he is gone. I cannot tolerate torment in my life. I am a committed career woman. I didn't look too bad myself and had unsolicited several offers although married. I am not a flirt, so solicitations surprises me.

We are 36 years married (first marriage for the both of us). I am 58 and my husband is 60. Neither one of us has cheated, emotionally or physically as we both know the grave consequences. You can stay in your marriage in torment or leave it. Your choice.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Hi Juliemac,

I am very sorry you are here. I only read half the posts and I do not need to read any more. Your husband will "cheat". I put that in quotes because by his definition it really is not cheating, but more like an open marriage. He knows he will cheat and basically told you do. You know it. Everyone here is telling you the same. Including me.

You husband is attractive, outgoing and has no boundaries on dealing with other woman. I can guarantee that other women will fall for him, emotionally at first, then offer themselves to him physically and he will take them up on the offer.

If you can accept he will cheat (Heck he already did before you married - don't buy the "cooling off" excuse) and are ok with that, they stay. I believe you know you are not ok with that. That is why you are here. Look at your thread title and replace "may" with "will".

Do not, I repeat do not, have a baby with him. You will then be trapped and he will continue the open marriage. Ten or twenty years from now, you will wish that you would have done things differently. We are telling you your future now. You will regret not making the decision NOW that you know is best for you. The pain of having regrets of wasting half your life is immense. 

You know what you need to do. Do it.


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## bluezone (Jan 7, 2012)

juliemac said:


> Hi Matt, yeah perhaps. But what kind of wife am I if I just "give up" on him like that? But I also don't want to be disrespected  if we were just boyfriend and girlfriend, I know I can leave him. But we're married and I want to keep my part of the promise.


What kind of wife are you if you put up with this? Sure, you make your husband's life GREAT, because he can have you and go flirt and message and have fun with any "attractive" woman he wants...because *"that's who he is". *Bullshyt. 

If you were a serial killer, would he have to put up with that because "that's who you are"? I know that's an extreme example, but your H is manipulating you.

It's one thing to be social, extroverted, etc. IT IS ANOTHER to disrespect your WIFE and do whatever you want with other women. OP, you need to set boundaries now and stop giving your H the green light to do whatever he wants. You know that you are NOT comfortable with it, or you wouldn't be posting here. And guess what...no other woman, unless they were in an open marriage and didn't have a problem with all this would be comfortable either.

Can you get counseling for yourself?...I think it would help you to get the strength to stand up to him. Good luck. You need to set boundaries with what you are comfortable with, and see if he will accept that. And then follow through with consequences if/when he doesn't.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Would your husband think it OK if you acted in exactly the same way you did?

Either answer, "he would not mind" or "he would be furious" mean that he doesn't respect marriage.

So.... why is he married?:scratchhead:


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

You both rugswepted this issue. A concept that usually comes up quickly when discussing reconciliation after adultery. But in truth adultery commonly occurs because real issues that can be successfully resolved out of fear are rugswepted. 

Read "not just friends". Also read very carefully this post on why and how YOU MAY will cheat on him and he will cheat on you. 


F-102 on how. *Note: this applies only to remorseful *WS. *One of the hardest thing for a BS to accept is that their WS is a cheat. *It is who they are. *So this post does not apply to them. *

Right now, the texts/conversations may very well be just two old friends catching up but soon, if left unchecked, may very well morph into:

Their lives since they parted
Their relationships since they parted*
Their families
Their spouses
You
How you're an excellent father
How you're a great husband
How you're a wonderful guyhw*
Your job
How your job keeps you busy
How your job keeps you away
How she sometimes feels a little lonely when you're away
How she sometimes feels a little overburdened at home
How she sometimes feels a little taken for granted
How she feels that you don't ALWAYS listen to her
How she feels that you don't ALWAYS understand her
How she feels that sometimes you're just "not there" for her
How, okay... you're not ALWAYS such a wonderful guy
How she loved hearing from him again
How she looks forward to his texts/calls/e-mails now
How she feels young again
How she feels appreciated again
How she feels attractive again
How it's so nice to have someone who just LISTENS to her again
How it's been so, so long since you made her feel that way
How her eyes have now been opened
How she now realizes what she truly wants and needs
How she now realizes that you could NEVER give her that
How insensitive you can be some times
How you can be a real jerk sometimes
How she wonders if they would have stayed together
How she now realizes that she never really loved you
How she now realizes that she really loved him all along
How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
How you're the biggest a++hole she's ever known
How you're standing in the way of her true happiness
How you ruined her life
How she made a big mistake marrying you
How she made an even bigger mistake letting him go
How now she sees that they were really meant to be together
How she desperately has to get away from you
How she's definitely going to leave you
How she's talking to divorce lawyers
How they're going to live happily ever after...

...get the picture?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

juliemac said:


> ^ plus we have plans of having a baby by next year too so...now I'm having second thoughts? ?


Please don't! I think you will regret staying with this man. He sounds narcissistic- craving those ego strokes and not caring about his commitments nor your feelings

You are young now. You can easily start over with someone who is capable of monogamy.

I'm further down the road than citygirl with my narcissistic ex-H. He lives for ego strokes and narcissistic supply to the point where he was abusive toward the children while we were still together and is now a serial player on match.com (at age 60).

I regret giving him multiple chances. Cut your losses while you are young and have your whole life in front of you. Find a man who only has eyes for you. Get some counseling and work on yourself so you can maintain better boundaries and not allow yourself to be emotionally trampled.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

So yes odds are much higher then you think you will be the one to cheat. 

It is time for you to speak guy i.e. 2x4 come to Jesus moment. Now before the rot sets in. 

I lost my fiancé at the age of 22 due to a lot of personal bad habits. Not your husband's but still in hind sight just as dumb and stupid. The pain was intense and lingered for close to a decade. Here are two truths: first I took that pain and said never again and changed. Every relationship since has been better for it. Second it took that lost to wake me up. If she had been wiser (she cheated) and wanted to save the relationship she should have broken up with me (keep her "hands clean" and demanded I change. Might have worked, but it was the only thing that would have. 

I do have some concrete actions for you but until you get to the point you are "willing to lose a marriage to save it" they will not work.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

juliemac said:


> Do you have friends who are poly and are married? How does that work out?


My DH and I identify that way. We have practiced it. (It is very, very hard.) The difference is that we came to this TOGETHER, not him springing on me after the fact that he had no real intention of taking his vows seriously.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Blonde said:


> Please don't! I think you will regret staying with this man. He sounds narcissistic- craving those ego strokes and not caring about his commitments nor your feelings
> 
> You are young now. You can easily start over with someone who is capable of monogamy.
> 
> ...


My former BF is also a narcissist. They are VERY charming. They also tell themselves stories that bear no relationship to reality to justify their opinion that their wants, and ONLY their wants, are important to the exclusion of all else. But the charm wanes, and you wind up with a master manipulator.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

The Drop dead Gorgeous "Alpha charmer" Narcissist has to be one of the absolute worst types of men to be paired with if you seeking faithfulness in a monogamous relationship..


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I know this is extremely hard to stomach, hearing every person here tell you to not accept this and/or get out.

I believe that it's very probable that he has cheated already. You are agonizing and losing sleep while he sleeps like a baby knowing that he has already warned you up front about the 'mistake' he is bound to make.

I suspect your tacit acceptance of his lifestyle means to him that he has been honest with you, perhaps about something that has already occurred.

You will have a heartbreaking life with this man. It's your choice to stay, but you will have no peace.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening @juliemac

IMHO, this really is your choice and yours alone. Getting advice is great (especially mine ;-) ) but in the end you have to decide.

I think you are being realistic in understanding that the man you married will flirt and probably cheat. It is far better to have a realistic / honest view of this, rather than to fool yourself and then be disappointed.

So, are you willing to live in that situation? Do you want an "open" marriage. Some people are OK with that, most are not. What matters though is not how other people would feel about it, but how YOU feel about it. If you discovered right now that your husband was cheating how would you feel? That is likely to happen in the future, so you may as well leave or accept it now. You can't force someone to not cheat.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

juliemac said:


> I had a long and "mature" chat with my husband the other day. I was telling him how I felt that what was happening and what he's doing is wrong. But to him he felt like he was just "being himself" like when I met him as he's always been friendly to ladies in general. He admitted yes, it strokes his ego that they get attracted to him despite being married and he thinks, that's about it - *but also he said, in a "mature" way, that he can't promise me he will never ever act on it as he says people make mistakes. *What do I do as a wife then? He posted this as a question to me.


Oh HELL no. Not acceptable! I would advise to divorce this man, immediately! Why in the hell do you think you have to accept this?? Don't you think more of yourself than that??


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

juliemac said:


> Hi Matt, yeah perhaps. But what kind of wife am I if I just "give up" on him like that? But I also don't want to be disrespected  if we were just boyfriend and girlfriend, I know I can leave him. But we're married and I want to keep my part of the promise.


Why would you keep your part of the promise when he tells you that he doesn't intend to keep his? The wedding vows go two ways and one partner doesn't get to choose afterwards which ones they actually meant.

You seem as if you see your role as his Plan B to come home to if nothing better shows up that day. When he asked what had changed you should have replied "We got married, and it IS a big fvcking deal".


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## DrivingBy (Apr 4, 2016)

1. Since you want to stay married he needs to know any form of cheating will equal divorce. 

2. Always work a full time job that you can support yourself with. 

3. Don't have children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for taking the time to go through my thread and offer your opinion. Appreciate it.

Reading through your comments on this made me realize that all my thoughts and feelings were valid and I wasn’t being idealistic – what I know and believe in and my kind of loyalty and faithfulness is what marriage is. Not the BS my husband is trying to feed me. Albeit, marriage is about acceptance and forgiveness too, but what is there to forgive when he doesn’t consider it wrong to flirt and engage in banter with other women with the end in mind of getting them attracted to him and he strokes his ego.

He has admitted he has self-esteem issues that he has to deal with on his own and so he is in a state where he’s trying to weigh up on himself what he should do. He knows partly he’s wrong but the other part of him also thinks “making friends is a natural thing to me” so why should I stifle it? 

I may have self-esteem issues too in this case because you know what, I’m actually a very confident woman outside of the home but when it comes to my husband, I become quite submissive and 90% of the time, I feel like I’m the one doing something wrong. Maybe I’m not understanding him more, maybe I should be more supportive of him and take more in taking care of the household (which I already do but it’s not up to his standard – another story altogether).

So last night, since we’re both treading so carefully at the moment after our big fight on the weekend, looked at me straight in the eye and asked me, “what are you most afraid of?” To which I answered truthfully, “that you may find someone else and find comfort in them.” And he responded with, “stop being so scared, that won’t happen.”

This morning, while still in bed, I did the same. Looked him in the eye and asked him straight, “What are you most afraid of?” and he answers me with “That you will leave me.”

And that was it – I got up, started prepping for work as usual and I was out the door.

Okay – mulling over it, here’s a few things I want to get clear:

1.	I don’t want to divorce him because of this.
2.	I want to put my foot down without pushing him away – how do I do this?
3.	What types of boundaries am I able to set that are not too stifling? (i.e. I don’t want to be the nagging wife as well so I want to be reasonable in my demands.)
4.	I want to tell him he’s an a**hole and that he should start putting his act together. Seems like my personality during fights and confrontations (when I start to listen and think about his side and weigh them out first before actually just saying, you’re a d***) doesn’t work because him being very much aggressive and quick to think of a come-back – always leaves me in a position where he is able to make a case for himself while I merely become the “interrogator”. (i.e. He tells me, “see! That’s the exact reason why I don’t open up to you – because you want to dig deep and interrogate me some more! And you think you can get me that way? You’re pushing me away instead!” – without ever addressing my questions.)
5.	I will reconsider having a baby with him unless he realizes the value of marriage.

Your thoughts?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Well if you're bent on staying with him but don't want to actually draw any enforceable boundaries why don't you just have an open marriage?

At least that way you don't have to be a complete doormat and can get yours too.


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

juliemac said:


> What types of boundaries am I able to set that are not too stifling?
> 
> He tells me, “see! That’s the exact reason why I don’t open up to you – because you want to dig deep and interrogate me some more! And you think you can get me that way? You’re pushing me away instead!” – without ever addressing my questions


Wow, Julie, I'm sorry that you just don't understand what you're dealing with. But, you have definitely come to the right place to find the answers to your questions.

First, any boundary that you can set is going to be too stifling for him. He's a narcissist and you've described the "classic profile" of one in what you stated above. EVERYTHING is about him and all that you do will be turned against you because he's the victim here. Get used to that behavior and DON'T BACK DOWN on your convictions.

Your second quote above is exactly what a narcissist does. They turn everything around to where they are the victim and you are the aggressor. They can do no wrong and see everything as if they are being attacked without owning their issues, failings or responsibilities.

Another example is that you said that you do the housework and yet it doesn't measure up to "his standard". Why not do none of the housework for a month and see how bad it gets? Fix yourself nice dinners for a month and let him come up with his own without offering him any of yours. Be very nice and sweet about it all but just don't go there as his maid or servant. Wash all your clothes for a month and leave his left in the laundry hamper.

He doesn't value you or your input at all (and likely won't no matter how hard you try) unless you hit him over the head with a baseball bat (in a matter of speaking) by doing very passive-aggressive things such as those. Think of some others that you can do that will really get under his skin. Remember, though, to be as sugar-sweet as you can about it and it will absolutely drive him crazy. Maybe, just maybe, you'll begin to get through his thick skull.

There are lots and lots of threads on here of narcissistic spouses. Read up on them to gain a better understanding of what you're dealing with. I had one, too, for nearly 20 years that just about drove me insane. Didn't understand much of it as I wallowed through it all but in time was able to see that nothing I did would ever be good enough for her.

You will need lots and lots of patience. But, remember this one thing. You cannot please him no matter how hard you try unless you stop trying to measure up because he will just raise the bar higher and higher so that you won't ever meet the expectations.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Well, I hate to break it to you, but an open marriage will not likely work with him since without trust and open communication, it has not even a small chance of working.

Here is why. First, you tell him about how much it hurts you, but then he deflects and manipulates you into making it all about him, how you are stifling him. He does not take your own wants and needs into consideration. How would you ever know if he builds an attachment to someone else, if that person overtakes you eventually, and should that ever occur, would you be okay with having someone else above you in his totem of priority?

So, you are attracted to him because of his charisma and such, yet, he is not the kind person that takes your feelings into consideration. Yeah, you have fun and all, but you do not have an honest and caring relationship as it is predicated on his whims.

Sure, you can stay with him, but odds are, you will grow resentful, waste your life, have a broken home, because he does things behind your back and you just accept it. If you both decide to open the marriage or not, that is up to the two of you, but not being open and callous about your feelings,it is about how others make him feel. Even if not in an open marriage, there should be trust, and open communication to make couples connected. The fact that you have a spouse carrying on activities behind your back and the fact that you cannot talk to him without him making it about him or working together to either compromise and resolve the issues, you have major issues already.

So, he is charming and fun, is that enough qualities for you to stay with him and overlook his poor ones? Only you can answer that and if you stay and end up miserable because of superficial qualities, then that is your choice in the end.

What happens if I told you that my gf was so gorgeous,and a great lover and that is the only reason why I am with her. She cheats, lies, and puts me down all the time. Think about it that way. You fell for someone who can manipulate, just like he manipulates those other women. He hooks them in by not telling them he is first of all married, they get hooked. Imagine where he tells them he is married and then tries flirting. There is a reason why he actually consciously does not mention that he is married off the bat, because it is for his own gain. He has you in mind when he is flirting since he actively first hides the fact he is married, and he does it knowing that if you find out, you will be hurt. It is premeditated.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

juliemac said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to go through my thread and offer your opinion. Appreciate it.
> 
> ...


What would you divorce him over?


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> What would you divorce him over?


I may divorce him if he physically abused me or our (future) children. Or he gets into drugs and eventually hurts me or our (future) kids.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your boundaries should be flirting and the subsequent cheating and lying.

He says he is afraid you will leave him. Tell him with confidence that you will leave him if he does the above.

You married someone who isn't good husband material and now you are waking up to that fact.

When I was in grad school, I had a long-term bf who fancied himself an irresistible Latin lover. I found out at some point that he was cheating pretty regularly. I was young and unmarried and didn't jettison him right away the way I know I would have done if I had been older. At one point, he wanted to get married and I was stunned. I told him that I wasn't tying myself to a man who cheats and lies. Then he was stunned. He just thought I understood that that is what a 'man like him' does in life. LOL!

Seriously, men like this really believe that they represent acceptable behavior that you must accept as part of 'who they are.' The thing is, you can accept this, but not in a husband. Why sign up for constant heartbreak?


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

autopilot said:


> Wow, Julie, I'm sorry that you just don't understand what you're dealing with. But, you have definitely come to the right place to find the answers to your questions.
> 
> First, any boundary that you can set is going to be too stifling for him. He's a narcissist and you've described the "classic profile" of one in what you stated above. EVERYTHING is about him and all that you do will be turned against you because he's the victim here. Get used to that behavior and DON'T BACK DOWN on your convictions.
> 
> ...


I have only heard about narcissist spouses here. I will look that up and do further research on it.

I have been trying to measure up for a long time now thinking he is right an of course I want to better myself too for my own good blah blah blah. To be fair, he really is very good with the chores that's why his expectations are the same as if he'd done them.

And yes, I hate when he deflects my questions and turns them against me to make me look like I'm the one at fault and is attacking him.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

juliemac said:


> 2.	I want to put my foot down without pushing him away – how do I do this?


You put your foot down by stating your boundaries of what you expect of a spouse in marriage and the consequences if they're not met. By what you've written in this thread,your expectations are quite normal for someone who is in a monogamous marriage. If he's not accepting of them,then you have your answer as to his commitment in my opinion. Don't live your life giving in and making him happy at the expense of your own happiness. That isn't marriage.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

juliemac said:


> I have been trying to measure up for a long time now ...
> 
> ...
> 
> And yes, I hate when *he deflects my questions and turns them against me to make me look like I'm the one at fault and is attacking him.*


Sounds so familiar! He's twins with my ex

Here's how that went. I got three years of counselling starting at age 44 and got stronger so I could now deal with him assertively, not internalize his shaming and blaming, let his criticism roll off like water off a duck's back.

so he turned it on the kids, juliemac

they were never good enough, could never measure up, 
"if you had a brain it'd be lonely", "you idiot!", 
to me when a toddler was coughing "can't you shut that stupid kid up?!?!?!"
to the 7 yos with a sprained ankle who could not hike "$%(# [profanity and cursing]" then dragged him by the arm across the street to the car-- absolutely *devoid* of empathy, ALL about him not getting to do his hike
to the 14 yos struggling in school "you will never amount to anything, you worthless POS"

That very son who was the 7 yo and the 14 yo above was suicidal and very nearly shot himself in the head that day at age 14. That is when I decided that I could not be with H anymore. He cheated, lied, manipulated, and hurt ME but now he nearly killed his own son with his callousness (and projection of his own deficiencies onto his son).

and Juliemac, he is still the "victim". He regards me as a WAW. He immediately moved on (before I was out of the house) and was doing three women before we had been apart a year.

Thankfully, I live 500 miles away from him with the 13 and 15 yos and he is not a very big factor in their lives.

Really
don't

The symptoms are more subtle than the list in the DSM. This is accurate of my ex: 5 Early Warning Signs You're With a Narcissist


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

juliemac said:


> Appreciate you being straight with me. In fact I like it more than if you were to fluff around it.
> 
> *When I brought up the "but we're now married" card, he asked me, so is that all the difference? That we signed a paper and all of a sudden I should change who I am?* And I was taken aback because it'r right - I dont want to be someone who will push him to change who he is.
> 
> ...


1. Yes. He needs to change who he is. A marriage is a covenant two people enter willingly. A covenant of love and RESPECT. If you don't feel respected, he needs to step up his game and make you feel respected. It goes both way, not just with the man.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

juliemac said:


> Mr.Fisty - if it were the other way around, he told me he'd just accept me as I am. He said he believes that if I find solace in someone else and that was was something I needed in my life, he'd accept me still in the end. For him, as human beings, we just find what we need in different people all throughout our lives so it's impossible to think that you marry one person and that person will be the end all and be all of your humanity.


Oh please. 

So basically he's telling you he's going to screw any women who will let him and you'd better just accept it because, well, he's a stud.

What made you grow up with no self worth?

The only solution YOU need right now is to go to individual counseling to learn how to love yourself. The rest will sort itself out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> It's the "it may happen in the future" that bothers me and in this case, should I be putting my foot down? I dont want to push him away by stifling him (yes, he feels miserable when I start interrogating and prying about the "friends" he meets).


Here's your solution. I used it 36 years ago and my H still says to this day that it's the main reason he never cheated. 

I told him "I can't control what you do. But if I ever find out you cheated on me, I will disappear, and any kids we have with me, and you'll never see us again."

It scared the crap out of him. So much so that he still remembers it to this day.

Thing is, you have to be willing TO leave if you catch him cheating.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

Blonde said:


> Sounds so familiar! He's twins with my ex
> 
> Here's how that went. I got three years of counselling starting at age 44 and got stronger so I could now deal with him assertively, not internalize his shaming and blaming, let his criticism roll off like water off a duck's back.
> 
> ...


OMG Blonde! This is abhorrent!! I am sorry! I am stunned. I mean read a lot of heartbreak on TAM but this ^^^ is just terrible. (((Hugs))).

Juliemac please listen/read this before you think about having children with your H.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

juliemac said:


> I *may* divorce him if he physically abused me or our (future) children. Or he gets into drugs and eventually hurts me or our (future) kids.


Wow. Did you go into the marriage with such low expectations or have you just lowered them once you found out who you married?

You didn't even set that low of a standard as you *may* leave him if he abuses the children.



juliemac said:


> To be fair, he really is very good with the chores that's why his expectations are the same as if he'd done them.
> 
> And yes, I hate when he deflects my questions and turns them against me to make me look like I'm the one at fault and is attacking him.


But since he's good with the chores then I presume the flirtation and the expectation of him messing around is all forgiven.

Deflecting questions and turning everything around to make it look like you at fault is a classic emotional abuse.

I'm sorry to sound harsh here but you have set yourself up for a life of misery and low self worth. It doesn't even sound like you are a backup plan to him, you're more of a safety net to come back to when he doesn't succeed elsewhere.

I'm all for spouses having freedom and being friends with others, even OSF. But what he is telling you is so far outside of those bounds that it is almost laughable. You seem to think that because you have landed yourself a good looking one then you have to accept whatever treatment he decides to give you. 

I would suggest that you give him an ultimatum to change but I don't think he will and I don't think you'll enforce any consequences anyway. At this early stage and with the level of deception he has shown I think you should be able to get an annulment as he clearly lied his way through the wedding vows, assuming that they were the normal ones in most of the west. 

For gods sake don't do anything that could risk bringing a child into this relationship. He'd probably be trying to hook up with the delivery room nurses. You deserve better but only you can make that happen.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

juliemac said:


> *I may divorce him *if he physically abused me or our (future) children. Or he gets into drugs and eventually hurts me or our (future) kids.


I'm sorry, but you aren't fit to be a parent. Take his garbage and be happy with it because you don't deserve better.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

juliemac said:


> I may divorce him if he physically abused me or our (future) children. Or he gets into drugs and eventually hurts me or our (future) kids.


You *MAY*?? Really?? Omg please don't have kids! 

Are you just afraid you'd never find another man? Because having NO man beats the hell out of having one like the one you do now.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

juliemac said:


> I may divorce him if he physically abused me or our (future) children. Or he gets into drugs and eventually hurts me or our (future) kids.


Julie... why are you willing to put up with so much?
You deserve so much more. Reach into your strength and recognize you deserve happiness and love.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Hi Young Lady,

You and I have a similar problem - not listening to the advice given here. If I had listened to the advice I saw three months ago I would not be in my current situation (concerning infidelity.) If you have the belief that it will not happen to you, that it happens to other people, you are very much mistaken.

You don't want to believe or think about what the posters are telling you. That is normal. You won't take the advice here. But we can guarantee you will be back here in two years, probably much sooner, telling your sad story of your husband cheating - with you pregnant or with small child. We will comfort you and support you then. Until then, I wish you the best of luck.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

juliemac said:


> samyeagar said:
> 
> 
> > What would you divorce him over?
> ...


Oh no! Is this ^^^ the only reason why you would divorce him? 
My H said to me last month that he thought having multiple relationships was normal (everyone in his family pretty much cheated on everyone) and this is how he grew up so this is the life he led. Served him with D papers 1.5 weeks ago and told him that if this was his mentality then I was done and I didn't want my son around that nonesense. He is now in some intense IC to work on his childhood trauma (physical and mental abuse and had witnessed his cousin get sexually molested by a pastor at the age of 7) and we are in MC. Divorce proceedings can be stopped at anytime. So if I feel like he is making progress (he's making very good progress thus far) then I may stop the divorce. We are doing better but being served with D papers was his Come to Jesus moment. I took the advice of the TAMsters and did what needed to be done. I put my foot down and I will not look back. 

Anyway, those should NOT be the only reasons why you would Divorce your H. His way of thinking is very skewed and obviously very different from yours. He sounds like he is controlling also.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

SoulCrushed16 said:


> My H said to me last month that he thought having multiple relationships was normal (everyone in his family pretty much cheated on everyone) and this is how he grew up so this is the life he led. Served him with D papers 1.5 weeks ago and told him that if this was his mentality then I was done and I didn't want my son around that nonesense.


That is awesome. 

Just to confirm again and help OP, did you decide to do this after consideration of the advice here on TAM?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> I'm sorry, but you aren't fit to be a parent. Take his garbage and be happy with it because you don't deserve better.


This. It's quite selfish to bring kids into this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

juliemac said:


> ^ plus we have plans of having a baby by next year too so...now I'm having second thoughts? ?


No, do not have a baby with this man! It will be far more difficult to disentangle yourself with him if you do this!

Note: I will not judge open relationships so long as *both *parties are completely on board with it. However, a *one-sided* open relationship is a recipe for disaster.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> That is awesome.
> 
> Just to confirm again and help OP, did you decide to do this after consideration of the advice here on TAM?


This is correct. Almost every single person told me of this dysfunction and to file for D to give him a wake up call of what he stood to lose and I did just that week before last. He flipped the eff out.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

juliemac said:


> I *may* divorce him if he physically abused me or our (future) children. Or he gets into drugs and eventually hurts me or our (future) kids.


You MAY divorce him if he physically abuses your CHILDREN? Please seek counseling.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

You are me ten years ago.
I get it. I really do.
You love him. You see yourself spending the rest of your life with him.
You see red
Flags but you don't think they will amount to much as long as you keep measuring up.
I get it.
But you have to understand that his behavior is going to get worse and he will do something that you might not be able to come back from.
Don't have a baby until you and he are in a better place.
If you want to stay with him tell him that he needs to cut contact with these women.
No more. Tell him he is cheating and you won't stay.
He should also talk to someone as to why he needs all this attention from women...why does he need his ego stroked?
Consider MC.
If you really want to make this work he needs to understand your boundaries and he also needs to understand you mean it or you are gone.
MC will give you the communication tools you need.
And reassess when you will leave him. I would hope if was physically abusive you would be out the door.


Sent from my iPhone


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

citygirl4344 said:


> You are me ten years ago.
> I get it. I really do.
> You love him. You see yourself spending the rest of your life with him.
> You see red
> ...


And until you are willing to divorce him for this, saying you won't tolerate it is meaningless. You have to be wiling to leave the relationship if you are to have any chance of saving it.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> And until you are willing to divorce him for this, saying you won't tolerate it is meaningless. You have to be wiling to leave the relationship if you are to have any chance of saving it.


I agree. Actions speak louder than words. Serve him with divorce papers I'm sure he will change his tune very quickly, and it will mean that you are serious!


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

wow. one of my good friends from hs is very much like your husband, and married an incredibly kind and beautiful woman and he put her through h***. 3 kids and 11 years later HE files for divorce. He admits to EAs and recently basically told me for the last five years he has been in love with another woman-- someone he met by being the charmer he always has been. He admits to being very selfish-- but from what he has said about his post-divorce plans that is not going to change. that is how he IS. He was a known player in college and many people told her to watch out when they got together-- she went to the same hs. She told me she knows he has cheated on her -- I lived out of the area for 15+ years after college so was not around them much. I could go on...but after my divorce 2 years ago, the few times we did go out he acted more single than me.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

@juliemac

Young lady, please let us know what you are thinking. Please understand that we are trying to HELP YOU.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Why are you trying to justify something that should not be accepted? Your husband is crossing boundaries for your marriage. Figure out why you are allowing this and address that issue inside yourself, very important. I did this very same thing with my husband, I addressed issues with him, I told him how these actions made me feel but they never stopped. I am now 24 years into a marriage that I am leaving because he never stopped seeking other women.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

MRR said:


> wow. one of my good friends from hs is very much like your husband, and married an incredibly kind and beautiful woman and he put her through h***. 3 kids and 11 years later HE files for divorce. He admits to EAs and recently basically told me for the last five years he has been in love with another woman-- someone he met by being the charmer he always has been. He admits to being very selfish-- but from what he has said about his post-divorce plans that is not going to change. that is how he IS. He was a known player in college and many people told her to watch out when they got together-- she went to the same hs. She told me she knows he has cheated on her -- I lived out of the area for 15+ years after college so was not around them much. I could go on...but after my divorce 2 years ago, the few times we did go out he acted more single than me.


Yes wait until he catches something that he can't get rid of. Herpes anyone??? 

Your friend sounds like a real tool. He needs to just stay single.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> @juliemac
> 
> Young lady, please let us know what you are thinking. Please understand that we are trying to HELP YOU.


Blue I think in her head since he hasn't done the deed then... Well you know where I'm going with this. I think OP came here to seek validation for her husband's poor behavior and her door mat behavior. She has no intention of leaving let alone filing for divorce. For some people something just has to happen to wake them up. Unfortunately, this was me and if it wasn't for TAMsters and their throat punches I would not have had that wake up call.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

Hey all – please hold your horses on judgment about the physical abuse comment. Sorry for my use of “may” in that statement – English is not my first language.

To add on, maybe I should also say my husband and I grew up in quite conservative families and in a culture where people stay together through thick and thin. So there’s another part we need to consider. 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have been getting so much information from this thread. Right now, I need to work on myself first. Husband and I are okay, feels like walking on eggshells at times but I think I need to do a self-check as well. You’re right, my self esteem is way under and that’s why I have not been able to assert myself too. So in this case, I’m choosing to take control of myself and my emotions first, build myself up. Not to justify what he’s doing but I am really quite sure at the moment, all the flirting is just that. And nothing comes out of it. In saying that, no, I won’t wait until something happens. I will have a serious chat with him and let him know how his revelation and thoughts made me feel. 

Appreciate your opinion on my situation and I have learned so much from reading through your comments, constructive or not.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

SoulCrushed16 said:


> Blue I think in her head since he hasn't done the deed then... Well you know where I'm going with this. I think OP came here to seek validation for her husband's poor behavior and her door mat behavior. She has no intention of leaving let alone filing for divorce. For some people something just has to happen to wake them up. Unfortunately, this was me and if it wasn't for TAMsters and their throat punches I would not have had that wake up call.


Me too, was here for years complaining about my husband....could not figure out if it was me or him or what i needed to do or if all men were like this and I just needed to accept but over time I lost all love as his actions continued. I was not ready, I was clinging to hope, in denial and one day I woke up and saw the light. I knew at that point that he was never going to be any different....yes, he has some good qualities but I was suffering from the bad. I gave it my all and for that I can say I did my best. He made his choice and I made mine....my choice was that I was not going to stay and let more time pass by living the same way. I am entitled to my happiness and I knew I was not going to have that as long as I lived this this man. I had to reach that point of no return.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Me too, was here for years complaining about my husband....could not figure out if it was me or him or what i needed to do or if all men were like this and I just needed to accept but over time I lost all love as his actions continued. I was not ready, I was clinging to hope, in denial and one day I woke up and saw the light. I knew at that point that he was never going to be any different....yes, he has some good qualities but I was suffering from the bad. I gave it my all and for that I can say I did my best. He made his choice and I made mine....my choice was that I was not going to stay and let more time pass by living the same way. I am entitled to my happiness and I knew I was not going to have that as long as I lived this this man. I had to reach that point of no return.


BRAVO AVR!!! I am a sucker for happy endings.


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

juliemac said:


> Hey all ? please hold your horses on judgment about the physical abuse comment. Sorry for my use of ?may? in that statement ? English is not my first language.
> 
> To add on, maybe I should also say my husband and I grew up in quite conservative families and in a culture where people stay together through thick and thin. So there?s another part we need to consider.
> 
> ...


Well OP,
When you do have that serious discussion with your H. Make sure you sing like a canary when you give him his boundaries and what you will do when he does cross them. This is the time you draw a line in the sand if that line is crossed then dish out the consequences. 

Good luck!


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

juliemac said:


> Hey all – please hold your horses on judgment about the physical abuse comment. Sorry for my use of “may” in that statement – English is not my first language.
> 
> To add on, maybe I should also say my husband and I grew up in quite conservative families and in a culture where people stay together through thick and thin. So there’s another part we need to consider.
> 
> ...


Remarkably good grammar for ESL


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

juliemac said:


> Hey all – please hold your horses on judgment about the physical abuse comment. Sorry for my use of “may” in that statement – English is not my first language.
> 
> To add on, maybe I should also say my husband and I grew up in quite conservative families and in a culture where people stay together through thick and thin. So there’s another part we need to consider.
> 
> ...


Julie, do you mind me asking you where you are from? Is your husband also from the country you were born in? Did your mother stay in a marriage she was unhappy in? Did you father have sole control of the household growing up? Are you religious yourself?

So many times when we are given the example of an unsupportive, abusive or neglectful marriage in our childhood we accept this as normal and end up repeating what played out in our parent's marriage. Times have changed which is good for you. You have a right to your voice, you have a right to your feelings and you should not question your own thought process as to whether your husband should be doing these things, or if they are innocent. He is neglecting you and your marriage by paying attention to other women. No married man should be seeking the attention of an other woman. What would happen if you were to take up with male friend and spent time with him, even though it was not sexual, but you enjoyed the time and his attention? What would be your husband's reaction?


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

SoulCrushed16 said:


> Yes wait until he catches something that he can't get rid of. Herpes anyone???
> 
> Your friend sounds like a real tool. He needs to just stay single.


The point is, as in the OPs scenario, he just IS what he is.

I am sure his soon to be ex thought or hoped he would 'settle down' and consider himself taken, cutting himself from all real flirty attention and reciprocating/fueling that type of interaction with women. He didn't. 

OP husband is not likely to change.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

juliemac said:


> To add on, maybe I should also say my husband and I grew up in quite conservative families and in a culture where people stay together through thick and thin. So there’s another part we need to consider.


When people stay together through thick and thin that is usually referring to the challenges they experience and overcome together. Staying through thick and thin doesn't mean that you just stand idly by and let your husband treat and/or disrespect you however he sees fit.

The first is a show of strength of character in both partners and the marriage while the second is the complete opposite and shows weak character in you both.


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Julie, do you mind me asking you where you are from? Is your husband also from the country you were born in? Did your mother stay in a marriage she was unhappy in? Did you father have sole control of the household growing up? Are you religious yourself?
> 
> So many times when we are given the example of an unsupportive, abusive or neglectful marriage in our childhood we accept this as normal and end up repeating what played out in our parent's marriage. Times have changed which is good for you. You have a right to your voice, you have a right to your feelings and you should not question your own thought process as to whether your husband should be doing these things, or if they are innocent. He is neglecting you and your marriage by paying attention to other women. No married man should be seeking the attention of an other woman. What would happen if you were to take up with male friend and spent time with him, even though it was not sexual, but you enjoyed the time and his attention? What would be your husband's reaction?


Hi. We're Asian. 

We were born in the same country, grew up in the same country. About 5 years ago we moved out of our country and have since moved countries and cities together. We've grown to acclimatize to the Anglo-Saxon culture but keeping our own values and principles intact. Or maybe not. I have nothing against it, it's just that it's quite difficult for me to accept that we can just marry people and leave as soon as we find out they're not perfect.

Both are parents are still together, married for more than 30 years. Pretty sure there have been rough times in my parents' marriage and his as well but they've managed to still keep it together.

I am hoping he gets some sense into him and as for myself, I'd like to work on my assertiveness as well. As you may know, Asians (esp women) are taught to "submit" to their husband come marriage.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

juliemac said:


> Hi. We're Asian.
> 
> We were born in the same country, grew up in the same country. About 5 years ago we moved out of our country and have since moved countries and cities together. We've grown to acclimatize to the Anglo-Saxon culture but keeping our own values and principles intact. Or maybe not. I have nothing against it, it's just that it's quite difficult for me to accept that we can just marry people and leave as soon as we find out they're not perfect.
> 
> ...


So, you are speaking to largely a Western audience. One thing thing I think I know about cultures where wives submit is that they take a see-no-evil, hear-no-evil approach. As long as he is discreet, and you remain queen of the hill, is this something that you can reconcile yourself to? It would not be my first choice. But I am not Asian. What would other Asian women do?


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## juliemac (Apr 4, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> juliemac said:
> 
> 
> > Hi. We're Asian.
> ...


I came here because we are now living in a Western country. I need more "direct" insights rather than flimsy responses to excuse my husband of his ways (which most of women of my heritage will do, i.e. Maybe he's just aloof and you're overreacting; maybe you're being too paranoid and a nag; he still comes home to you doesn't he?) - yeah I don't need that. I already do that to myself so no use hearing the same thing.

Something bothered me this morning while we were just waking up. He whispered to me, "I know how this will go...in the end it's still you."

I didn't mind it, pretended I was still too sleepy to respond. But what the F does that mean??? It should be sweet but I don't feel it is at all!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ask him! And don't let him dismiss it with some vague meanderings of his thoughts. He seems to think that you will be there no matter what. He needs to understand that you have choices and one of those choices is that you may not be there for him in the end because in the end you want a husband you can trust. 

He is blatantly telling you that you can't trust him and he thinks this is the way marriage is supposed to be? He has no qualms about being a non-trustworthy man? Ask him if he's a man or a mouse.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

juliemac said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I tried looking for articles around this topic but I always end up with articles like "How to know if your husband is cheating" or things like "How to keep your husband from flirting with other women" or "How to differentiate flirting and cheating", etc - you get the gist.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry but you sound like a fool for punishment. How is it that you accept him doing things that are disrespectful to you and your marriage. Are you trying yo palate yourself for what you think he may already be doing and you know you can't stop it? If you accept him for who and all he is then why are you here looking for advice? Just accept his behavior and let it go. But if you are not truly play with it then you need to stop pretending like you ate. Get angry and tell him to stop the bull**** or there will be problems that come from him not respecting your wishes.

I just don't have time for men like that or women that try to make excuses for them


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

Julie,

I am a little bit late to your thread, but reading through it I can't help but feel that one of the reasons that your husband doesn't accept boundaries is that he doesn't understand why he needs them. Consequently, if you say "these are my boundaries, live with them or get out" then he just hears unjustified demands and wonders what he did to deserve having a fence built around his life.

I think that your husband gave you an opening when he told you that his greatest fear is losing you. You have the opportunity to begin explaining to him that boundaries are not arbitrary demands made to change someone. There are certain ways that spouses can modify their behavior to improve their chances of having a successful marriage (i.e. not just not losing you, but having a deeper relationship with you). Do your research into what those behaviors are, and begin conversations (not confrontations) with "Since we agree that we both want a great marriage, I've been looking at ways that we can make our marriage fireproof." Then discuss what you've found out with him.

For example, research shows that many affairs begin with seemingly harmless conversations where an unhappy spouse begins telling a sympathetic ear about why he/she is unhappy. The sympathetic ear says "It's so sad that you're unhappy. I'm unhappy too.", and after a few deep conversations affirming this unhappiness and consoling each other they are suddenly emotionally attached, and soon seeking physical comfort with each other.

You and your husband both need to understand that "harmless flirting" creates opportunities for that sort of thing to happen. What happens when the flirting happens when you're going through a rough patch in your marriage? That phone number becomes an outlet, someone to call to have a sympathetic ear to talk to ... and that's how it starts. This is why I will not even consider an open marriage or poly anything. It's because during those rough times when we really need to be focusing on each other and doing the hard work to make our marriage healthy again there is someone available who is easier to talk to, easier to get along with, and who is a sympathetic ear. Why do the hard work to improve one relationship when another, easier one is available? We need behaviors that keep us focused instead. 

A healthy marriage begins with establishing patterns of behavior that are healthy, nurture the marriage, and encourages us to focus our attention on each other. Learn what those behaviors are, and discuss them with your husband. If he refuses to see that his flirty behavior creates cracks in your marriage and opens the door to future infidelity, then you will know that your fears are justified.

Edited to add ... I am married to an Asian woman. I have seen how she and many of her friends tend to be submissive in our marriages in the sense that the husband is usually deferred to in disagreements. This is not necessarily a bad thing as long as she doesn't sacrifice her needs and identity, but it seems to be cultural. Do you notice this too?


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

pplwatching said:


> Julie,
> 
> I am a little bit late to your thread, but reading through it I can't help but feel that one of the reasons that your husband doesn't accept boundaries is that he doesn't understand why he needs them. Consequently, if you say "these are my boundaries, live with them or get out" then he just hears unjustified demands and wonders what he did to deserve having a fence built around his life.
> 
> ...


This is actually ver sound advice.


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