# Confused. Morality?



## Confused.One (Apr 2, 2010)

I apologize in advance for the long post, but thought I needed to give a back story before asking my questions.
Back story:
- Been married for 13 years, been together for 16 years. Have 2 great kids, 11 and 13.
- I have admittedly been a workaholic and although I thought I was achieving a good work / home balance I see now I could have done more for my wife. That is, although I have been involved with my kids probably more than my wife in regards to activities, I see now that I have had my wife as a lower priority than work many times.
- Early last year my wife’s dad was diagnosed with cancer. Within 4 months he died.
- Somehow (still unclear when and how... more later), my wife met a man who had his mom die of cancer. My wife started an online relationship with this guy. The guy lives miles away (we live in Canada, he lives in the US).
- She admittedly would text and instant message him many times a day, every day. This went on for many months. Included in this correspondence were numerous pictures of her in seductive poses sometimes with nudity
- As the year progressed, the correspondence seemed to get more and even my kids would notice how she would always be texting when they were home
- Eventually, they decided to meet up in Vegas and as was admitted to me they had sex "5 to 15 times" over the course of 6 days
- I suspected things before Vegas and after Vegas but only officially found out over a month later
- She explained that he was only a friend and things "just happened" in Vegas
- After she admitted it she said that he was a good friend and wanted to stay in contact. She called this a "grey" area.
- Since then, we met a marriage counsellor and she supposedly has cut off all ties

Here are my dilemmas that have all occurred since she “admitted” the relationship and supposedly cut off all ties.
- I had asked if she ever sent him pictures of her. She said no. Over the last couple of weeks I discovered that she had sent pictures (see above). When I brought these up she denied and then finally admitted last night and said they she was just having “fun”
- The story of when and how she met him does not “add up”. She says she met him in August, but the pictures show that she was involved with him as early as April. This was after her dad was diagnosed with cancer but before he died. She still denies this though.
- She says she loves me and wants to be with me. However, she said the same things before going to Vegas as well, so I do not know if I actually believe her or not
- We went to 1 marriage counselling session. She thought it went well. She has refused to go back. I have gone twice now where she knew I had booked the times but she has had “reasons” why she could not attend
- The main source of contact she has had was through instant messaging, yet she refuses to show me her contact list to show he is no longer on her list. She says I need to trust her
- She says the sex with the guy “meant nothing” and that she never loved him. She said that she liked feeling desired and he was a friend. She has indicated that it was “no big deal”
- Whenever we try to talk about it I am told by her to “move on”

So... I am left with not knowing what to do. I am also disturbed by what I feel as some morality issues as well. That is, sometimes when she talks she makes it sound like there was nothing wrong with what she did. Do I just "move on" and never bring it up anymore and assume everything is great?

Thanks


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

No contrition, no guilt, no justice, no tears, no consequences, And you are told to move on. You're not allowed to be sad, angry, emotional. You have been disrespected, cheated on, and cuckolded. If you want my advice, here it is. Out her to all family (including children if they are old enough) and friends. Remove her from all bank accounts and credit cards. Make her move out or go stay with her mother or a friend that will have her. After you have done all this. And she has actually reaped some of the consequences for what she has done. And she comes back at you with anger (initially she will be angry). If this does not turn into contrition, sorrow, tears. Then divorce her. Right now she is completely disrespecting you. And more importantly, you are disrespecting yourself. She needs to work her way back into your marriage. She goes to one counseling appointment (slaps a bandage on it) and expects for you to suck it up. The question you have to ask yourself, is "how much is my marriage/love worth?" If you can be satisfied with the way you are being treated, is that love? If your wife can just sweep spreading for another guy without sorrow or contrition? Just how much does she love you? I would say not at all. Or if she does, she has buried that love, so she can look at herself in the mirror. Do you want to live like that? Do you want your children to be modeled a marriage where one spouse can treat another like that? This is not about divorce. This is about scraping away a festering scab (infidelity) that is covering up the true emotion and commitment that a marriage should be. She needs to be in mortal fear of her life and security going away. This will help her gain perspective of the gravity of what she has done.

Don't get me wrong. You can continue being in a marriage where your wife can cheat and cuckold you (because if you do nothing about this, and it costs her nothing, she will most assuredly cheat again. I mean why not?) and survive as a couple "for the kids". Or you can take the risk of burning down every thought and action that would allow your spouse to so disrespect you, and through this, maybe be able to start a new. 

This is not a war with your spouse. remain calm and loving. But your actions must show her that you have respect for yourself. And are worthy of her love and fidelity. I wish you the best of luck.


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## breakable (Nov 13, 2009)

She needs to be completely and 100% transparent.
I would personally give her a dilemma or some rules.
Such as, no instant messaging. Have her delete it completely if she refuses to show you her contact list.
She can't just expect to be trusted, she has to earn this back.

Some parental controls can block certain instant messaging services.

Being friends with the OM is not an option.

Skipping out on counceling is NOT an option.

If she cannot be 100% transparent and willing to do these things for you, then maybe it is not worth staying.


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## Confused.One (Apr 2, 2010)

I appreciate the responses.

Here is some more information in response to some of the points brought up:

- After I found out about the pictures I mulled it over for a couple of days and then *did* ask her to leave the house. She then got the kids off of the computer and playstation and pulled them into it to tell them I was kicking her out of the house. It ended up being she refused to leave. The kids now completely know that she had a relationship with another man.

- My daughter then sent an e-mail to the living grandparents pretty much saying she would run away if we broke up. This was the first time her mom knew anything was wrong. So, now all her mom knows is that she made a "mistake" and that I am having a hard time forgiving her and trusting her

- Her mechanism for instant messaging is her personal iPod touch and not a computer. So, I have no access to it at all and so there are no parental controls I could put in place.

- We have argued quite a bit about the instant messaging and her not showing me the list. Her point, and I suppose she is correct in a way, is that she could remove the contact, show me, and then re-add it and I would never know. She could also create a new account and use that, and I would never know. The point being is that it would prove nothing

- She has shed tears along the way and there were a couple of times she has called herself a "wh*re". I have never called her that... or any names, ever. I realize this might sound in contradiction to what I posted originally; however, the times she said those things and cried those tears I am not sure they were "real". That is, in all of the recent discussions she seems to be of the stance that it was "nothing" and meant "nothing.

- I did tell my wife that I want us to go to counselling and that it is something that I believe is needed. She is of the opinion now though that there is nothing more she can do and that it is all me that needs to move on. She says she has moved on and is angry that I have not. I have told her that perhaps she is correct; however, then I want her to support me then at the counselling sessions as I try to move on

Don't have much to add beyond that I suppose at the moment. I just had to finally post on a forum that seems to have a lot of members that know how to respond to these things. As mentioned, I have gone to the marriage counsellor twice now by myself and I have tried to talk through these things. She is of the similar opinion that she needs to be 100% transparent, but since she does not want to be that noone can force her. So, the counsellor has told me to try to focus more on the kids and keep an eye open for any further indiscretions. That is, I still do love my wife and there are times where it sure does seem like she loves me. Also, I realize it sounds bad, but there are the kids as well and I certainly do not want anyone to be running away.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

No consequences, no changes. It's that simple.

There are absolutely no motivators either positive or negative to make her choose changing her behavior.

You fundamentally have two choices, accept it and move on, or do not accept it. But what you truly need to understand, is that the drivers for change will come from you, not her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

What about separating finances? Whose money did she use to cheat on you with? She has to earn your trust back with the finances as well. Simply tell her "that since I have to trust you that you won't be communicating or cheating on me with other men, you have to trust me that all finances will be taken care of. If you want to go shopping, make a list. I'll go with you. If you want money, tell me what it is for and I will give you money, but you will have to bring me a receipt.

Regarding your daughter "threatening to run away". Well my friend apparently your daughter is learning well from your wife on how to manipulate you. And she will carry the lessons you and your wife have taught her into her future relationships. She will use what worked with you. I am sorry for the man she marries (and her), because of the example of your wife (cheating) and you (backing down when threatened) tell her (because, action speaks louder then words) that all she needs to do is be manipulative and she can get what she wants. Your wife has taught her that lying and continuing to lie to save herself from consequences is how the world and "loving relationships" are supposed to work. This is harsh, but isn't that exactly what is being modeled for her. Put your daughter in your wife's place in the future. You may not have ever called your wife names. But your wife is calling herself names. Is that what you want for your daughter? When she is in a situation which tempts her (like your wife was). Do you want her to think, "well my mom did it, so maybe I can" And then give in. What will you think of those words coming out of your daughters mouth about herself. 

In what way has your wife been shown that she has broken her vows? Did you require her to get an STD test b4 you had sex with her? Did you consider moving out of your marital bed and into another room. 

WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR WIFE DOING TO RESTORE A LOVING TRUSTING RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU? COUNSELING??????
..........NOTHING.

How has she sought your forgiveness??????........She hasn't. Her calling herself a ***** does not encourage your forgiveness. Quite the contrary.

Have you sat her down and explained to her (calmly and lovingly) that based upon her response to what she has done, that she has doomed your future together to a very cold existence of distrust, anger, and depression? 

She has told you to move on. Have you told her that there is no moving on, moving around. There is only moving THROUGH the pain. Right now she does not understand the less she makes of what she has done. The less she makes of your future together.


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## artieb (Nov 11, 2009)

Take away her cellphone and her iPod. She has proven that she can't handle them responsibly, so she shouldn't be allowed to have one of either.

She may not travel out of the city alone. If she goes somewhere, she takes a kid or maybe a parent with her. (It's educational for kids to travel anyway.)

She may no longer use a computer unless the screen is where everybody can see it.

You don't trust her. She hasn't proven trustworthy. If the technology brings her into contact with temptations that are hard to handle, then she won't be allowed to use the technology anymore.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree:


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## Confused.One (Apr 2, 2010)

Thanks everyone for their replies. I have posted a new question as I am quite certain we are done as I do not trust her, feel as though she has no remorse, and am fed up with her not wanting to talk about any of this either to me or to a counselor.


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## Confused.One (Apr 2, 2010)

I thought I should give a followup to my original posting.
For those that responded... you were right.
Although I believe she has not physically been with the person she had an affair with or another man, she WAS lying along the way.
She WAS still in contact with him using the instant messaging application. Worse yet, she had started to flirt with a guy at work as well. Interestingly enough, the guy has a girlfriend that my wife works with who is actually PREGNANT. WOW!
Anyway, I finally had enough, said it was over, and then what I believe to be the REAL truths came out.
She was flirting with a guy online who she met through an online game (as I suspected). This eventually trailed off.
She then registered on a DATING WEBSITE and met another man online (as I suspected).
After time, the guy from the dating website and her decided to meet up in Vegas... and they did.
She then thought she could still be "just friends" with this guy.

So, where am I at now? We are now going to see marriage counseling after SHE insisted on it. She is also seeing the counselor for one on one sessions as well. She has given me her passwords and no longer has a passcode on her iPod. A refreshing change. She also has expressed a lot of remorse.

Do I think she will get "better"? I don't know, but at least I know now that I was not crazy. Do I love her? It's crazy, but the answer is yes. Am I angry at her? Absolutely. Will we stay together as a married couple? Honestly, too early to tell yet, but I still hold out hope that people can change.

So again, the people on these forums that replied were right and as I read other postings I see the same things over and over again, which is incredibly sad.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good luck.

Go to marriagebuilders.com and print out two copies of the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires. Both of you fill them out, and share them.

They will tell you as much as possible about the other person so you can make your marriage so good there'll be (little to) no reason to cheat again.


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