# Strong Independent Woman



## COGypsy

I'm strong and independent. I make good money and just signed the letter for my second promotion in less than a year. I'm active in my community and have my fair share of dates. I can kill the spiders, doctor the dogs and have no problem with investigating the bumps in the night.

But in spite of all that....

I still HATE thunderstorms


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## waiwera

COGypsy said:


> I'm strong and independent. I make good money and just signed the letter for my second promotion in less than a year. I'm active in my community and have my fair share of dates. I can kill the spiders, doctor the dogs and have no problem with investigating the bumps in the night.
> 
> But in spite of all that....
> 
> I still HATE thunderstorms


Fabulous COgypsy... well done on the promotion :smthumbup:

As for me...

I'm strong and independent.

I make lousy money but hate to shop...so it seems to even out

I'm active in my community.

I lift weights, I fish and hunt and use a chainsaw... all the while wearing a sexy red bra and knickers , lip gloss, matching earrings and necklace.

I really love being a woman in 2012


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## COGypsy

Ain't it grand? :smthumbup:

I shop to support my work habit, lol.

I'm pretty much an indoor/city girl these days, but let me tell you, those paper targets QUAKE WITH FEAR when my pistol collection and I hit the range!


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## notperfectanymore

Congrats on the promotion! :smthumbup:

I am strong and independent....

Worked my butt off to be financially independent...

Enjoy riding my motorcycle to work while the weather still allows me 

But I am TERRIFIED of snakes


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## southern wife

I am strong and independent....

Worked my butt off to pay off financial debt...only owe mortgage, car and boat note (rolled into one payment), food and expenses. Now I pay my cc off every month and cash in on the cash back rewards. 

I enjoy grilling, boating, camping, fishing, and most anything outdoors.

I hate mice! 



*Congrats on those promotions! *


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## COGypsy

Thanks for the good wishes everyone! On the work front, it's been a good year, for sure! We're making the announcement to our division this afternoon and it's official as of Monday! I'm pretty excited. Not only is the new title and the pay bump nice, but now I have a RESERVED parking spot--that's probably the sweetest part, lol. Their salary offer came in at about $1,000 less than I was wanting, but once they said "parking spot", I took it. Glad they didn't know what magic words those were!


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## southern wife

:lol: Awesome! So are you a manager?


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## EnjoliWoman

Question from another "Miss Independent" - do/did you find it difficult to find a man who isn't intimidated by you? I sure did.


I was meek during my marriage but since what doesn't kill ya makes you stronger, as a single mother I had no choice and found I was pretty good at a lot. Ex said I wouldn't be able to survive (basically) with out him. I earn more than him now, have had 4 promotions in 8 years, own my own home now (sadly his yacht has yet to appear - the one he said I'd regret never being able to go on) and volunteer for Habitat for humanity which gave me lots of skills for all sorts of home improvements. I landscape, paint, sheetrock, maintain the pool, clean gutters, clean the house, cook every night, supervise a teen, change oil, sharpen mower blades... whatever needs to be done.

For anyone my age they may remember the perfume Enjoli commercial "I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never let you forget you're a man"...


Frankly I'm tired of being strong. I look forward to the day I can let some of it go and lean on someone else some of the time. Wonder woman is overrated. 

I'm hiring a cleaning lady next month.


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## [email protected]

I too am a stong highly independant woman. But I have a question ladies. Do you ever find that strong independence seeping into your personal life sometimes to much?

I don't think my husband is intimidated but sometimes I think it casues him to want to step up his game. For instance when I pull out my credit card to pay for dinner when we go out I see it annoys him a little. I say you always take me out whats wrong with taking my husband to dinner and he says I want to take care of you.

During our 6 month seperation he saw someone else and so did I. When I got the 411 on the woman he was seeing I was taken back because she was the exact opposite. Not career minded at all and how I know this is that a friend of mines knows a friend of hers and whenever we would I talk I would say I dont get it how do you go from me to her. She said to me did you ever think your independence sometimes makes a man feel as though he is not needed so why wouldn't he rebound to a woman who clearly needs him.

We fought it out, lived a part for a while then miraculously came back together so of course I had to ask. I said do I make you feel unwanted at any time. He said not unwanted but sometimes you got it so together you made me feel like you didn't need me at all. The truth is I don't need (thats a strong word) my husand but I want him. If tomorrow he walked out that door the bills would still get paid I would still be able to take care of my child. So do I need him? No Do I want him? hell yea

Its a balancing act, I gotta keep my idependance because a long time ago watching my mom in an abusive marriage becasue she felt she couldn't go any where made me vow to never have to ask a man for sh.. at the same time I don't want to over power my relationship with it or act as if I wear the pants in my house. Hell why can't we both wear the pants....

Just something I deal with from time to time....


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## EnjoliWoman

[email protected] -

My first marriage was abusive so I think I'm independent out of revenge (LOL) and a fear of needing a man but really WANT one, as you clearly separate the two.

I had my best friend (happily married 15 years) tell me to "take my eyes off the list" and still reminds me from time to time. This analogy works for everything but we were shopping, stopped by a hardware store and I had a list, knew what I wanted, where it was, etc. After we left she said a couple guys looked but I was so intent on my list (being capable & independent) that I didn't even notice. She suggested even when I DON'T need help, ask anyway. As an exercise, not just to meet men but to be OK with being vulnerable and needy (not in a bad way).

So now all she has to say is "look away from the list" and no one knows the story but I know what she means. 

It took 8 years and the internet to find my BF and he was married to a very independent woman who I think emasculated him. So I know he's attracted to that type but I'm very careful to ask for help/advice any time I need it and even when I don't. 

Sure, I could research grass seed for the area I'm over-seeding. But I texted him asking what I should buy. I ask for help with electronic stuff (my weakness) and try to be sure to make him feel like the man. He took me to the airport for work one time and I reached for my suitcase as he did and remembered "the list" - so used to doing for myself I forget it's OK to let him get the door, get the suitcase... it's so sweet and makes me feel special that he wants to take care of me. It's hard to overcome our natural tendencies sometimes.


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## underwater2010

I am stong and independent, but still play the damsel in distress to my husband. Once in awhile I fix things around the house just to show him I can, but he likes to be asked to lift things, check the meat to see if it is done and fix the plumbing when needed. It is definetly a balancing act.


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## Jellybeans

I love thunderstorms. They're sexy.


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## COGypsy

Jellybeans said:


> I love thunderstorms. They're sexy.


Maybe THAT'S what I was doing wrong!!

:rofl:


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## Jellybeans

?


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## COGypsy

southern wife said:


> :lol: Awesome! So are you a manager?


Yep, I'm the administrator of a 30-person health care research team.

Professional Mean Girl, I call it! 
(no you can't buy that with those funds, no you can't hire your kid, no you can't have a data feed on your home computer....)


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## COGypsy

Jellybeans said:


> ?


Well, if I'd had a nice _distraction_ a time or two...I might have a better overall feeling towards thunderstorms! 

Then I might think they were sexy instead of....unsettling.


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## ScarletBegonias

Congrats on the promotion!!!

I live alone.Rescue/Foster pitbulls.I have no debt.A nice home and a great car.

Totally independent and I have a fabulous job.

But put a cricket or one of those pincher bugs in front of me and I'll run away like someone tried to shoot me.


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## Jellybeans

You're funny, CO 

Congrats on your promo!


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## CandieGirl

Are we patting ourselves on the back? I'm so tired of being a strong and independant woman that I'd really love to be able to let someone else take over for awhile, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Too bad my husband can be such a jackass at times.  

There was a thread a few weeks ago about how hard it was for women to have it all. I commented "...wasn't aware we had the choice...!". I'm sure you all feel the same.


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## Caribbean Man

waiwera said:


> Fabulous COgypsy... well done on the promotion :smthumbup:
> 
> As for me...
> 
> I'm strong and independent.
> 
> I make lousy money but hate to shop...so it seems to even out
> 
> I'm active in my community.
> 
> *I lift weights, I fish and hunt and use a chainsaw... all the while wearing a sexy red bra and knickers , lip gloss, matching earrings and necklace.*
> 
> I really love being a woman in 2012


My goodness!:smthumbup:
Sounds like Charlie's Angels.


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## ScarletBegonias

CandieGirl said:


> Are we patting ourselves on the back? I'm so tired of being a strong and independant woman that I'd really love to be able to let someone else take over for awhile, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Too bad my husband can be such a jackass at times.
> 
> There was a thread a few weeks ago about how hard it was for women to have it all. I commented "...wasn't aware we had the choice...!". I'm sure you all feel the same.


i get tired of it too. but i'm not fulfilled allowing someone else to take care of me.it's fun for a little while but something in me disrupts it and I start longing to take care of myself again.

Feels like being two people.on one hand I'd love a big strong man to come and take away all my worries and struggles.but on the other hand I know I'd feel trapped and weak allowing that to happen. 
Yet I don't view other women as trapped or weak when they have a man to take care of them. It's bizarre. 
:scratchhead:


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## Caribbean Man

Strong Independent woman.
That sounds like my wife's alter ego.
In reality she a sweet little lois lane who expects me to fix things when she messes up and the shyt becomes too much for her.

I have this "Clark Kent / superman " complex,
So I will always be there to save her.


*Congratulations to the OP on your well deserved promotion!*


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## in my tree

CandieGirl said:


> Are we patting ourselves on the back? I'm so tired of being a strong and independant woman that I'd really love to be able to let someone else take over for awhile, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Too bad my husband can be such a jackass at times.
> 
> There was a thread a few weeks ago about how hard it was for women to have it all. I commented "...wasn't aware we had the choice...!". I'm sure you all feel the same.


Umm... yeah, we are. I see guys on this site patting themselves on the back all the time for being "alpha" or for getting their women to change how they want them to. Why not?

I really relate to [email protected] I too have been very independent and feel that if I am ever again with someone else, it will because of want, not need. I was a single mom before I got married and to be honest it was still like being a single mom throughout my marriage. My mother was also abused and neglected and it wasn't until she was single that she began to shine.

I'm a nurse and although I cannot currently work because of a disability, I am headed back that way. I've volunteered with the local food banks and although I have a few irrational fears (spiders, thunder) I can now deal with them a lot better. I have fallen in love with the outdoors more so than in any time of my life and although I can't hike or surf yet, I know that is in the cards for me.  

There is nothing wrong with being strong and independent. I think it's a necessity, especially now. Would it be nice to share some of that responsibility with someone else? Of course but it is not a necessity (thank the stars) anymore.


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## Caribbean Man

in my tree said:


> *There is nothing wrong with being strong and independent. I think it's a necessity, especially now.* Would it be nice to share some of that responsibility with someone else? Of course but it is not a necessity (thank the stars) anymore.


:iagree:
......and I could not agree more.
Sad to say it but,
After all is said and done,
That is the only woman men will ever respect.


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## southern wife

I also want my daughter to grow up to be a stong independent woman.


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## COGypsy

[email protected] said:


> I too am a strong highly independent woman. But I have a question ladies. Do you ever find that strong independence seeping into your personal life sometimes to much?





EnjoliWoman said:


> Question from another "Miss Independent" - do/did you find it difficult to find a man who isn't intimidated by you? I sure did.


I've never really thought about it. This is just me. I don't feel like I've "had" to become this way because of any circumstances in my life. I just find it's easier to just do something than wait around for someone else to make it a priority. Usually turns out just how I meant it to that way as well! Then too, where I'm at makes me a pretty normal find. Working in a higher ed/medical school environment means a lot of people that are high achievers and do-ers just by virtue of their professions. I live in an area of town that has a lot of what I call "grown-up" professionals. There's a lot to get out and do, but it's not like the 25 year olds and the "all you can drink" nights downtown, lol. So given that, I'm pretty darn average around here....if not a bit of an oddity since I work in the public sector rather than the corporate world.

I will say though, I don't know how one can do everything without some measure of support. If it's not a spouse or family, then knowing what and when things can be farmed out, delegated or automated or even ignored altogether is essential. I have grocery staples delivered, a great handyman and a techno geek that can fix those gadgets that mysteriously quit working  I also rent, rather than own because I'm just not interested in home maintenance.

I just can't see that I'd even be interested in someone that didn't expect his partner to be independant and capable, so I guess I don't worry too much about whether they like it or not, you know what I mean? I've also only been back out on the dating scene for a few months, so I'm not sure that I want anyone for the long term. It's great to have people to go out and do new things with, but I don't have any desire to deal with anything more at this point. I might have an entirely different perspective in a year or three!


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## CandieGirl

in my tree said:


> Umm... yeah, we are. I see guys on this site patting themselves on the back all the time for being "alpha" or for getting their women to change how they want them to. Why not?
> 
> I really relate to [email protected] I too have been very independent and feel that if I am ever again with someone else, it will because of want, not need. I was a single mom before I got married and to be honest it was still like being a single mom throughout my marriage. My mother was also abused and neglected and it wasn't until she was single that she began to shine.
> 
> I'm a nurse and although I cannot currently work because of a disability, I am headed back that way. I've volunteered with the local food banks and although I have a few irrational fears (spiders, thunder) I can now deal with them a lot better. I have fallen in love with the outdoors more so than in any time of my life and although I can't hike or surf yet, I know that is in the cards for me.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with being strong and independent. I think it's a necessity, especially now. Would it be nice to share some of that responsibility with someone else? Of course but it is not a necessity (thank the stars) anymore.


Never said there was anything wrong with it. But personally, I'm tired of it after a lifetime. I'd love to pass the reigns!


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## COGypsy

CandieGirl said:


> Never said there was anything wrong with it. But personally, I'm tired of it after a lifetime. I'd love to pass the reigns!


So here's a question--if there was a magic wand and The Perfect Partner came a long to take those reigns... would you be comfortable giving up your responsibilities? Or maybe what responsibilities would you be okay actually, truly giving up?

I'm guessing my list would be pretty short when it came down to brass tacks, so I'm wondering what other people think too.


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## notperfectanymore

I personally will never give up my independence. I watched my mother, sister in law and countless other women "suffer" because they were dependent on thier men, then when divorced, had no skill, savings, or anything else to turn back on.

When I met hubby, I was a struggling part time student working full time. He helped me, even financially in the beginning, but I HAD TO pay it back, would not have been comfortable otherwise. 

Today we are both 100% financially independent. You can take a look at the one thread I created if you want to see where that has us now...not perfect, but better since that last thread I made...I have learned a lot here, and hubs in learning too...thru me,alas he won't come here, read books or anything....

Still would not give up my independence for anything..

P.S...not 100% independent...as I can't operate a lawn mower to save my life, lol...but can ride the hell out of anything on two wheels.


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## FirstYearDown

I am strong, but I am not currently financially independent. I attend college so that I will not be dependent on my husband forever and I'm too ambitious to continue working dead end jobs.

I don't mind TEMPORARILY giving up financial independence if it is for a greater good. I think men who seek permanently dependent women have a need to control. These types need to have the ego boost of a woman needing them all the time. 

My strength comes from triumphing over health problems which kept me in and out of hospitals, when I should have been attending college in my twenties. While my peers were clubbing and going to school, I was trying to get out of an abusive home and battling serious health challenges. 

I know how to look after myself if need be, just like I did when I was single and lived alone. Those who can accept a helping hand without becoming stagnant are truly strong and wise. Even though my husband will always earn more than double what I do, having a career of my own has always been a goal. 

Better late than never.


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## notperfectanymore

FirstYearDown said:


> I Even though my husband will always earn more than double what I do, having a career of my own has always been a goal.
> 
> Better late than never.


Good for you!

Never say never. I always said that too...after 18 years, last year I got a promotion and now earn more than him (base salary, he still kicks my butt with his overtime)


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## FirstYearDown

Thanks NPA. Sometimes I feel like a loser going to college at the age of 30, while most of my peers have their careers already. 

My husband is very proud of me.


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## notperfectanymore

FirstYearDown said:


> Thanks NPA. Sometimes I feel like a loser going to college at the age of 30, while most of my peers have their careers already.
> 
> My husband is very proud of me.[/QUOTE
> DO NOT feel like a loser...I started college @ 24 part time, working full time)...graduated with my BA when I was 37!!! (part time, took a year off when I lost my nephew) I'm going back for my Masters...hopefully in January...
> 
> You Go Girl!


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## Dollystanford

all being independent means to me is that my marriage ended and I had to give HIM money ha ha


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## WorkingOnMe

**resisting the urge to derail this thread with my thoughts on women in relationships where they are the more powerful (financially, career, physically) half**


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## EnjoliWoman

La Rose,

I think for women, with the glass ceiling still intact, know that financially it's still a man's world. And men still need to be validated in their maleness more than women need to be validated in their femininity. (IMO)

There is more to independence than supporting ones self. Most anyone can accomplish that. It's more about handling traditional male situations with confidence. A LARGE portion of the female population isn't comfortable dealing with mechanics, home repairmen, etc without a man's advice. You hear stories every year about women who were ripped off in such situations. Even I had a mechanic tell me my fuel injectors needed cleaning when I don't have a fuel injected engine!!! He didn't think I would know that and thought he'd spotted a sucker! To me, THAT is independence - being able to hold my own in a male dominated environment.

So very often a woman who earns more than the average male and who is also capable not only in traditional female skills but also in traditional male skills often results in the men in her circle feeling as if they are not needed or desired only because they think their value is tied to traditional male contributions.

Maybe the reason women feel the need to pat each other's backs occasionally is because (maybe mostly those of us over 40?) we remember the time when nurses were only women and only men were engineers. Men were never stay-at-home Dads and wouldn't go near a diaper and Women were perceived as delicate people afraid of vermin and insects but good at baking and child rearing.

It's a celebration of breaking stereotypes and achievement of our gender - all without chest thumping. 

I don't have a degree and I don't earn a 6-figure income but I DO earn more than my ex - the man who was sure I would fail and watch him succeed from the trenches. 

My motto was always "the best revenge is living well". And living well isn't just about the monetary but also in enjoying life and feeling good about all of my accomplishments, big and small.


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## La Rose Noire

So being independent means knowing how to do manly things? I just have to disagree. I don't do home repairs, I don't shoot guns, I don't fish or go camping or repair cars. Does that mean I'm somehow weak and dependent?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## La Rose Noire

I guess what really angers me is that society keeps pushing this idea that women should do it all. The masculine and the feminine tasks. We're supposed to work hard, come home, take care of the kids, cook dinner, make the house spotless, mow the lawn, fix the car and look perfect doing it. 

I'm just not interested in that. I don't think it's fair or being independent. I am comfortable not having to do it all and having a man I love and trust sharing a bulk of the work. I am not ashamed of saying I need a man in my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notperfectanymore

WorkingOnMe said:


> **resisting the urge to derail this thread with my thoughts on women in relationships where they are the more powerful (financially, career, physically) half**


No need to get your panties in a bunch 

I can't mow the lawn....hubs can't cook.....

Although I can turn a wrench, my hubs works on my motorcycles, keeps them tuned up nicely...

Although he is capable of doing his own laundry..I do it, making sure he isn't a wrinkled mess...

We have a nice balance system...and our friends "hate": all over us because we are DINKS :smthumbup:


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## in my tree

FirstYearDown said:


> Thanks NPA. Sometimes I feel like a loser going to college at the age of 30, while most of my peers have their careers already.
> 
> My husband is very proud of me.


Are you kidding?! I got my nursing degree at 35 and I STILL am working on getting a better degree (in my mid 40s). It's never too late to educate/better yourself.


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## in my tree

La Rose Noire said:


> So being independent means knowing how to do manly things? I just have to disagree. I don't do home repairs, I don't shoot guns, I don't fish or go camping or repair cars. Does that mean I'm somehow weak and dependent?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


nope - not at all. You are who you want to be and with someone that you want to be with, that's great and doesn't make you weak. However I don't see those things as "manly" but just tasks that need to be done or things that people like to do. I know how to change the oil in my car and I love camping but I am not a man.

Also: 


"I guess what really angers me is that society keeps pushing this idea that women should do it all. The masculine and the feminine tasks. We're supposed to work hard, come home, take care of the kids, cook dinner, make the house spotless, mow the lawn, fix the car and look perfect doing it. 

I'm just not interested in that. I don't think it's fair or being independent. I am comfortable not having to do it all and having a man I love and trust sharing a bulk of the work. I am not ashamed of saying I need a man in my life."

Again - nothing wrong with what you want. However some of us like doing these things and some of us have to do them because there is no man in our llife. That is okay too. To heck with what society says. Just be how you want to be and if it works in your relationship, that's great!


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## WorkingOnMe

notperfectanymore said:


> No need to get your panties in a bunch
> 
> I can't mow the lawn....hubs can't cook.....
> 
> Although I can turn a wrench, my hubs works on my motorcycles, keeps them tuned up nicely...
> 
> Although he is capable of doing his own laundry..I do it, making sure he isn't a wrinkled mess...
> 
> We have a nice balance system...and our friends "hate": all over us because we are DINKS :smthumbup:


Not at all what I was talking about, but thanks anyway. Sounds like it all works well for you.


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## EnjoliWoman

La Rose Noire said:


> So being independent means knowing how to do manly things? I just have to disagree. I don't do home repairs, I don't shoot guns, I don't fish or go camping or repair cars. Does that mean I'm somehow weak and dependent?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, it's not about manly things but being able to handle yourself, even in situations that are out of your usual comfort zone.

I personally prefer a traditional household. That doesn't make me weak. I would rather NOT have to do it all. I don't think anyone does. But this perceived "neediness" of females in society is what we've overcome. I don't NEED a man or husband to guide me through life - I WANT a man to walk WITH me through life. For some it's second nature but for others its a bit harder.


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## COGypsy

Wow--such drama!

And all because I was entertained by the spectacle of me watching TV from my stairs all night so the thunder wouldn't "get me"!:smthumbup:


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## SimplyAmorous

> *Enjoliwoman said*: A LARGE portion of the female population isn't comfortable dealing with mechanics, home repairmen, etc without a man's advice. You hear stories every year about women who were ripped off in such situations. Even I had a mechanic tell me my fuel injectors needed cleaning when I don't have a fuel injected engine!!! He didn't think I would know that and thought he'd spotted a sucker! To me, THAT is independence - being able to hold my own in a male dominated environment.


Oh I have a good one related to a similar topic ..... I pretty much handle anything where I smell a rip off or fowl play... we took our Suburban to get the Transmission rebuilt.... 3 days later, it went out... I called....had to pay to get it towed back....

They call later telling us it was our Transfer case....No way in he** ...did not believe this.. I told them so... instead of pi$$ing with them, we had it towed to another shop....where we trusted the man....he confirmed it was their Job/their blunder, they may have been trying to pull a fast one...

... I had the balls of that shop in my hands, and I pretty much called the owner up told him... "He is going to pay ME for 2 tows that should not have been... and I will allow him the opportunity to correct his blunder - but if not, he will pay the new mechanic 100% for this job ." Oh he was real sweet to me. He knew I meant business. 

I've never been one to mess with... I investigate, I get all details before hand, I talk to others in the business and I get satisfaction. My husband is seriously more "Soft" than me... this is why I prefer to handle all calls & dealing with people.

Even when we was buying our house off a relative, his Father wanted us to do it on "good faith" -beings it was family... I was like....are you kidding me... NO, I wrote up a contract myself -took it to a Lawyer, he modified it in the right Lingo, that way we were completely covered in our financial dealings- it was thousands we were handing over -for a short period of time... but that did not sit well with me... I am not a risk taker, we don't live in the 1800's on a handshake. 

I like every I dotted & every T Crossed .


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## CandieGirl

COGypsy said:


> So here's a question--if there was a magic wand and The Perfect Partner came a long to take those reigns... would you be comfortable giving up your responsibilities? Or maybe what responsibilities would you be okay actually, truly giving up?
> 
> I'm guessing my list would be pretty short when it came down to brass tacks, so I'm wondering what other people think too.


Truly? I'd love to give up working for a living...I have many other interests I'd love to pursue but I haven't got the time.

Of course, with a perfect partner, I'd have access to enough money to not have to work, and have the freedom to retain as much independence as I saw fit; dreaming, I know!


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## CandieGirl

La Rose Noire said:


> So being independent means knowing how to do manly things? I just have to disagree. I don't do home repairs, I don't shoot guns, I don't fish or go camping or repair cars. Does that mean I'm somehow weak and dependent?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some of the things you list are actually chores and hobbies...not really responsibilities (so never feel bad for not doin' 'em! ) I'd happily give up cleaning the house. But I will always cook my own meals, as I enjoy cooking. I'd pay someone to do the lawn work in a heartbeat. It's not a responsibility, it's a task. Rearing children, paying bills, getting your ass to work, caring for aging or sick parents...those are responsibilities.


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## waiwera

La Rose Noire said:


> So being independent means knowing how to do manly things? I just have to disagree. I don't do home repairs, I don't shoot guns, I don't fish or go camping or repair cars. Does that mean I'm somehow weak and dependent?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ya know La Rose Noire it's funny what we hear when we read these threads... it's what resonates with each of us... personally.

What *I* was getting from this thread was that to be independent I have to be earning lots of money... best if it's more than your H.

I earn sweet FA on a annual basis... but feel very independent. I'm self employed...have been most of my adult life. I love being my own boss. 

I think being ' a strong independent woman' means different things to all of us.

It's all good


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## SimplyAmorous

... I can not boast of any degrees, college education, career promotions or social climbing. But I would hope this doesn't completely disqualify me from being considered Strong & somewhat Independent.... 

I realize in this day & age, my worth as a woman is on a lower rung by many - due to the "expectations" of modern society.... A little disheartening to me personally, but I'll take my lumps. 

Where I consider myself *strong *& *independent* is surely wrapped up more in the MENTAL.... how I have carefully planned & managed what we've had to "work with" ~ getting the most for one's $1 ~ raising a family who walks uprightly - while being dependent on noone....and debt free by our last son. 

One of the few scriptures I have memorized ....my prayer for our family... 1 Thes 4:11 ..." to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business & work with your hands, ...so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders - so you will not be dependent on anybody" 

I don't do chainsaws - he wears the chaps, I don't pull motors - but I've gotten my share of grease in the hair laying under a truck...I've helped position transmissions - I've worked along side him rolling up my sleeves - digging ditches, cement up to my knees, throwing shingles off a roof, stacking wood piles.. etc .. 

My husband likes to say...." I am the brains behind the outfit"... he makes 95% of the $$, but allows every dime to flow through my hands... I am more hawkish on how it is managed & spent over him ... but we've never gone without, our kids are not lacking... Food always on the table. 

...I can handle a slew of kids - house is Grand Central Station, cook for 70 people, snakes don't bother me, I've picked up Praying mantis's -though that is a a bit creepy!! (seen bugs mentioned on here !)









Even if I could do everything myself & have no need for a man in my life... I'd still climb a mountain to have one ..... cause that is what makes life worth living ...a little romance. I







being married ... having that "helpmate" ~ so we can cuddle afterwards -after all the hard work, planning, saving & sweating is done for the day.


----------



## FirstYearDown

SA, I don't think anyone in this thread was saying that your worth as a woman is less because you don't have a career. 

I thought we were just talking about why financial independence was important to us...?

Every woman needs to walk her own path to fulfillment. For some, marriage and children is the key to happiness while others crave careers and formal education to feel worthwhile.

I am happy for any woman who is enjoying her life and her choices. :smthumbup:


----------



## COGypsy

waiwera said:


> Ya know La Rose Noire it's funny what we hear when we read these threads... it's what resonates with each of us... personally.
> 
> What *I* was getting from this thread was that to be independent I have to be earning lots of money... best if it's more than your H.
> 
> I earn sweet FA on a annual basis... but feel very independent. I'm self employed...have been most of my adult life. I love being my own boss.
> 
> I think being ' a strong independent woman' means different things to all of us.
> 
> It's all good


I think happiness looks different to everyone. But to me, at its most fundamental, being strong and independent means that you have the freedom and access to the resources to build the lives we individually want.

For me, my achievements at work and the comfort that allows me are tremendously important. I'm a city girl through and through and I love all that entails. I enjoy concerts and restaurants, a nice bag once or twice a year, a trip to someplace warm when I can't stand the snow and cold anymore. It means A LOT to me that I can have those things on my own. It's been a long road to get to this point.

At the same time, I really admire the strength and courage of people who have kids, stay home with kids or take on other people's kids. And I think that finding someone to parent with, making the sacrifices and compromises to make that work definitely requires a woman to be strong and independent.

Plus all the myriad choices in between--in the end, it's amazing to me that it's all there to choose from and not be forced into some cookie cutter mold where you either have a thousand children or are some spinster schoolmarm....


----------



## CandieGirl

COGypsy said:


> I think happiness looks different to everyone. But to me, at its most fundamental, being strong and independent means that you have the freedom and access to the resources to build the lives we individually want.
> 
> For me, my achievements at work and the comfort that allows me are tremendously important. I'm a city girl through and through and I love all that entails. I enjoy concerts and restaurants, a nice bag once or twice a year, a trip to someplace warm when I can't stand the snow and cold anymore. It means A LOT to me that I can have those things on my own. It's been a long road to get to this point.
> 
> At the same time, I really admire the strength and courage of people who have kids, stay home with kids or take on other people's kids. And I think that finding someone to parent with, making the sacrifices and compromises to make that work definitely requires a woman to be strong and independent.
> 
> Plus all the myriad choices in between--in the end, it's amazing to me that it's all there to choose from and not be forced into some cookie cutter mold where you either have a thousand children or are some spinster schoolmarm....


...yes, and to me, independence has always been somewhat of a burden...we all see things so differently!


----------



## that_girl

I know that if I had to, I could support me and my children if H was to pass. Sure, we'd have to get a smaller, cheaper place, but it could work.

I don't need anyone, but I want certain people in my life.

I used to be TOO independent. That can cause issues as well. I had to find a good balance.


----------



## FirstYearDown

I will admit that it is nice to have the financial burden off my back for the first time in twelve years.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

FirstYearDown said:


> SA, I don't think anyone in this thread was saying that your worth as a woman is less because you don't have a career.
> 
> I thought we were just talking about why financial independence was important to us...?
> 
> Every woman needs to walk her own path to fulfillment. For some, marriage and children is the key to happiness while others crave careers and formal education to feel worthwhile.
> 
> I am happy for any woman who is enjoying her life and her choices. :smthumbup:


Accually I didn't read all of these replies...just a few on the 1st page.... totally missed what the starter posts by La Rose Noire was about... just noticed a few replies to her words....

I spoke as I did mainly due to what I have gleemed the MEN SAYING, their LIST of importants in this day & age.....many would NEVER consider a woman who doesn't have a good paying job, can support herself, that is class to them....and especally since so many has been burned by women getting big settlements in divorce... I guess this is where they speak from. One can't help but notice those thoughts -being in my position. It IS what it is. 

Obviously if I ever found myself single again (if husband passed away suddenly)....I wouldn't be caring about the women.... but It would matter to me that the majority of men today would deem me less.......being disqualified from their list of importants..... and with a brood of kids to boot.... hell.... one mention of that #, I'd never get a 2nd call. Dropped like a hot potato. 

May my husband outlive me, I say.


----------



## CandieGirl

May your husband have a good insurance policy, SA! You'd be fine. You sound like you know how to really stretch a dollar!


----------



## La Rose Noire

waiwera said:


> I think being ' a strong independent woman' means different things to all of us.
> 
> It's all good


That's what I find hilarious. People making up definitions to suit them. Independence means self sufficiency. That is all. Not making lots of money, not being able to handle situations you're not comfortable in. Not being able to hold your own against men. Those are all embellishments. 

Self sufficiency is nothing spectacular. Someone can work as a cashier at Walmart and live in a studio apartment and still be self sufficient. 

That's why I always laugh when women roar about being strong and independent, like they're special.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CandieGirl

La Rose Noire said:


> That's what I find hilarious. People making up definitions to suit them. Independence means self sufficiency. That is all. Not making lots of money, not being able to handle situations you're not comfortable in. Not being able to hold your own against men. Those are all embellishments.
> 
> Self sufficiency is nothing spectacular. Someone can work as a cashier at Walmart and live in a studio apartment and still be self sufficient.
> 
> That's why I always laugh when women roar about being strong and independent, like they're special.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is precisely why I am fed up with being so 'strong and independent'. Love you for pointing it out.


----------



## that_girl

I am special.

My mom told me so.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

SimplyAmorous said:


> I spoke as I did mainly due to what I have gleemed the MEN SAYING, their LIST of importants in this day & age.....many would NEVER consider a woman who doesn't have a good paying job, can support herself, that is class to them....and especally since so many has been burned by women getting big settlements in divorce... I guess this is where they speak from.


Really? Not me. Not at all. Frankly, the more independent my wife is, the less important I feel. And at some point, if my "importance" gets low enough then there's really no reason for me to stick around. That feeling of being needed is a good feeling and it's something that I need to stay in a relationship.


----------



## that_girl

WorkingOnMe said:


> Really? Not me. Not at all. Frankly, the more independent my wife is, the less important I feel. And at some point, if my "importance" gets low enough then there's really no reason for me to stick around. That feeling of being needed is a good feeling and it's something that I need to stay in a relationship.


I think most men feel this way. At least many do. I know my husband does. Which is why I had to find a good balance. I had to learn to ask for help. Being single for so long makes us learn how to do things for ourselves. Once i was married, I had to learn to let him do things and ask for help


----------



## SimplyAmorous

CandieGirl said:


> May your husband have a good insurance policy, SA! You'd be fine. You sound like you know how to really stretch a dollar!


It's $300,000 until he is 58, (he has $100,000 on me)...(I want cremated, put me under a tree)...then we are on our own...end of Term limit. Don't plan to get another. Our house & land is worth quite a bit with 50/acres. 

We are the thick of the Marcellus Shale gas well drilling play in our state, Landmen have been after us for yrs to sign a Gas Lease.....started out offering $750 an acre....has since climbed to $3,250 an acre - we are one of the last to be holding out..in our area...(I think we played our cards well  ~ it will likely go higher yet!).... probably sign next year...if not soon, they might pass us up & then we'll really be kicking ourselves. 

This all helps ~ I know we will just invest it.



> *WorkingOnMe said*: Really? Not me. Not at all. Frankly, the more independent my wife is, the less important I feel. And at some point, if my "importance" gets low enough then there's really no reason for me to stick around. That feeling of being needed is a good feeling and it's something that I need to stay in a relationship.


 My husband feels as you do WorkingOnMe... he has always preferred I stay home ... but he is the Older Fashioned type man... I assume you have some of this way of looking at life then - some women today would call that "ego"... I know it is surely NOT anything resembling such in my husband... Very nice  ~ I realize not everyone is the same, let's just say .... statistically - in this day & age, the older fashioned type men are dwindling....I believe that.


----------



## COGypsy

SimplyAmorous said:


> Accually I didn't read all of these replies...just a few on the 1st page.... totally missed what the starter posts by La Rose Noire was about... just noticed a few replies to her words....
> 
> I spoke as I did mainly due to what I have gleemed the MEN SAYING, their LIST of importants in this day & age.....many would NEVER consider a woman who doesn't have a good paying job, can support herself, that is class to them....and especally since so many has been burned by women getting big settlements in divorce... I guess this is where they speak from. One can't help but notice those thoughts -being in my position. It IS what it is.
> 
> Obviously if I ever found myself single again (if husband passed away suddenly)....I wouldn't be caring about the women.... but It would matter to me that the majority of men today would deem me less.......being disqualified from their list of importants..... and with a brood of kids to boot.... hell.... one mention of that #, I'd never get a 2nd call. Dropped like a hot potato.
> 
> May my husband outlive me, I say.


I think it all depends on where you're at.....in the city, you're probably right. In the suburbs? Even odds. But outside of there--you're probably most guys' dream!

I remember when I was in the AmeriCorps in Wyoming, I got asked what was "wrong" with me that I hadn't been married yet or had any kids. I wasn't even 25!!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

COGypsy said:


> I think it all depends on where you're at.....in the city, you're probably right. In the suburbs? Even odds. But outside of there--you're probably most guys' dream!


 Well outside of those suburbs was MY dream too, I grew up seriously wanting to marry a Farmer... instead married a Dairy Manager -but we got a farm.... not too bad. 












> I remember when I was in the AmeriCorps in Wyoming, I got asked what was "wrong" with me that I hadn't been married yet or had any kids. I wasn't even 25!!


I wanted to be hitched young too ~ no waiting to have kids either, was pregnant within 3 months. 

This is ME >>









I have no regrets, would do it all the same.


----------



## Caribbean Man

WorkingOnMe said:


> Really? Not me. Not at all. *Frankly, the more independent my wife is, the less important I feel. And at some point, if my "importance" gets low enough then there's really no reason for me to stick around.* That feeling of being needed is a good feeling and it's something that I need to stay in a relationship.


I see it differently.
The more independent my wife gets, the happier I am for her, and the more secure I feel in the relationship.
Because it means that there is nothing keeping her back from leaving me , she has alternatives ,
but:

_She* chooses* to stay with me!_

To me it means that she deply appreciates the intangibles I provide her with.

She doesn't need me for food.
She doesn't need me for shelter.
She doesn't need me for money.

And she loves and appreciates herself a lot.

To me, that's love.

But I guess everybody sees love differently.


----------



## FirstYearDown

I _need _my husband emotionally but I do not _want _to continue to completely depend on him for money and shelter. After all, I am an adult who values being self sufficient. There is a certain freedom and pride in earning my own money. I do not want to completely give up my independence just because I am a wife. 

My husband would like to see me succeed with both my own and his efforts. He encourages me to stay home while I am a student because my illness is worsened by stress. I would like to find a part time job as a compromise. 

I was recently hired for a night shift position and I ended up leaving because of some dishonest business practices. My husband confessed that he did not want me to work nights because he finds it hard to sleep without me beside him and I would always be very tired from being up all night. When I asked my hubby why he didn't mention this before the job interview, he said that he wanted to be supportive and not controlling.

Interdependence is the idea.


----------



## RandomDude

Caribbean Man said:


> I see it differently.
> The more independent my wife gets, the happier I am for her, and the more secure I feel in the relationship.
> Because it means that there is nothing keeping her back from leaving me , she has alternatives ,
> but:
> 
> _She* chooses* to stay with me!_
> 
> To me it means that she deply appreciates the intangibles I provide her with.
> 
> She doesn't need me for food.
> She doesn't need me for shelter.
> She doesn't need me for money.
> 
> And she loves and appreciates herself a lot.
> 
> To me, that's love.
> 
> But I guess everybody sees love differently.


:smthumbup: :smthumbup:

We really think alike bro, and I agree 100%

Unfortunately my wife has become quite dependent since marriage, however over time it seems we've both become inter-dependent on each other now.


----------



## Caribbean Man

RandomDude said:


> :smthumbup: :smthumbup:
> 
> We really think alike bro, and I agree 100%
> 
> Unfortunately my wife has become quite dependent since marriage,* however over time it seems we've both become inter-dependent on each other now.*


^^^^^^^
This highlighted there is what our Marriage Counsellor told us YEARS ago.
Inter-dependence is the ultimate goal.


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## RandomDude

True, though I guess a part of me is still threatened by it though heh. It's a hard transition from independence to interdependence. Everytime I see "strong" "independent" "woman" it reminds me of this song.

Ne-Yo - Miss Independent - YouTube
Hehe... "She made for a boss, only a boss, anythin' less she tellin' them to get lost, that's the girl that's on my mind" xD

My wife when I first met her and fell hard, she was the strongest woman I have met - still is (and she's proven it), not only independent but culturally-independent and individualistic minded - she made up her own mind, own judgements, own decisions. Marriage saw a big drop in that, but now that individualistic spirit of hers is on a comeback


----------



## TiggyBlue

I'm a strong and independent woman married to a strong independent man so i'm very happy.
Personally for me being strong and independent isn't down to a paycheck or qualifications but rather how much you let social stereotypes (or other people's judgements) hinder your own individual personality.


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## that_girl

I'll never not work. Or have money that I've earned at my disposal.

I was with someone who controlled everything and I stayed home. omg. hello 1950 and me begging for 20 dollars. NEVER again.

I choose to stay here, but my husband likes to know that he can provide for his family. Although, we split the bills. He likes to treat me to things that I normally wouldn't do for myself (like manicures, hair cuts, brow wax, etc) because I am so 'strict' to the budget. It makes him feel good. And me too


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## TiggyBlue

Me personally could never not work for that very reason, and now I have my own company I love not having to answer to no one but myself


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## RandomDude

Still have to answer to b-tch a-- customers sometimes, you know how it is lol


----------



## that_girl

My "customers" are 2nd graders LOL! I'm the queen. They are amazingly awesome.


----------



## RandomDude

Heh, try hospitality industry, everyone reckons they are entitled and VIPs lol


----------



## that_girl

Oh, sounds like my teenage daughter


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## RandomDude

Yup, now imagine it's what you deal with everyday lol

All 200-500 folks a day haha


----------



## AFEH

I think you strong and independent women make yourselves sound kind of untouchable in that you don’t want to be touched. It’s like you don’t want human contact, let alone say a “lover” as a partner.

That if you had your way you would live your private life in total isolation and that you have a great fear of intimacy and so you avoid it like the plague.

That you don’t have dreams and plans that include the love of your life. That you not only fear codependency but you also fear interdependency.


I can somehow visualise a strong independent woman joining with a strong independent man. But would there be any interdependency? I say no because they’d both avoid it like the plague. So two such people would never really connect at the emotional level, because they fear what that would mean. They’d never be emotionally intimate so they’d never become soul mates. And what about sex? Would that be truly mechanical because there’s no emotional *in love” connection? And because neither are actually in love with one another or are interdependent, they’d never feel jealous or fear the loss or death of their partner.

For me as a man, that’s not living. In fact for a large part it’s the avoidance of a great part of what living is all about.


----------



## TiggyBlue

AFEH said:


> I think you strong and independent women make yourselves sound kind of untouchable in that you don’t want to be touched. It’s like you don’t want human contact, let alone say a “lover” as a partner.
> 
> That if you had your way you would live your private life in total isolation and that you have a great fear of intimacy and so you avoid it like the plague.
> 
> That you don’t have dreams and plans that include the love of your life. That you not only fear codependency but you also fear interdependency..



We all had the choice of not being touched or living our private life in isolation, we choose not to.


----------



## FirstYearDown

Why the hostility AFEH? More than one of us have said that we need/want our husbands despite being independent. It seems like you are projecting a negative experience with independent women on to us. 

I see that many of us on this thread are grateful to our men for what they provide emotionally, financially and sexually. If we "avoided intimacy like the plague", why would any of us bother to get married or have kids? 

A *real *man isn't threatened by a woman wanting to be independent. My husband and I have a wonderful and passionate sex life despite my career aspirations. This is because he is secure in his manhood, so there is no need to try to stifle my dreams.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Being a strong independant woman is pretty much what you posted about N.U.T.S just being a female doing it (exept getting validation from women, don't really need validation from other people)


----------



## CandieGirl

FirstYearDown said:


> Why the hostility AFEH? More than one of us have said that we need/want our husbands despite being independent. It seems like you are projecting a negative experience with independent women on to us.
> 
> I see that many of us on this thread are grateful to our men for what they provide emotionally, financially and sexually. If we "avoided intimacy like the plague", why would any of us bother to get married or have kids?
> 
> A *real *man isn't threatened by a woman wanting to be independent. My husband and I have a wonderful and passionate sex life despite my career aspirations. This is because he is secure in his manhood, so there is no need to try to stifle my dreams.


I don't see hostility there, but I do see a 'black and white' style, 'all or nothing' attitude. It is possible to be strong and independent with a vulnerable side, too. None of us are made of steel!


----------



## ScarletBegonias

i thought this was a fun,light topic where we talked about how funny it is that we're independent yet still have our dependent moments, ie thunderstorms and bugs.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

It does seem there are many individual interpretations of what this means to us.

I chose to comment because I came from a marriage where I was made to feel I would never be much of anything - he told me it was a wonder I can hold a job, that I would live in a "crappy apartment" without him and called me a "life support system for a pu$$y" before he spit in my face.

After 13 years I ALMOST believed it but I did leave for the sake of my daughter, not for myself. I finally felt strong mentally/emotionally for the first time in many years. 

I was NOT independent by anyone's definition - not financially or in any way (I stayed at home with my daughter) and he made me feel less because he had a degree and I did not. So I did need to rely on my parents' help initially and so being financially independent and more than just scraping by (and eventually doubling what he earned and have been with my job nearly 9 years) I felt independent.

So now finally I am both, am oddly thankful that I had that experience because I think I became a better woman for having gone through that.

So... that's what it means to me. Not shutting out men or being a ball-buster. Today I had to rely on my boyfriend to help out and I was thankful to not have to carry the load and not too proud to reach out and ask for help. I accept needing and loving others does not make me weak.

So that's MY story and why I feel strong and independent. But my heart is open to give and receive love and I know it's OK to be weak and dependent with the right person.


----------



## in my tree

ScarletBegonias said:


> i thought this was a fun,light topic where we talked about how funny it is that we're independent yet still have our dependent moments, ie thunderstorms and bugs.


Yeah, I'm not quite sure why some got irritated (offended? defensive?) with this thread. I still wish it was someone else to take out the spiders (I try not to kill them, unless they are big and have an hourglass figure  ).


----------



## anotherguy

in my tree said:


> Yeah, I'm not quite sure why some got irritated (offended? defensive?) with this thread. I still wish it was someone else to take out the spiders (I try not to kill them, unless they are big and have an hourglass figure  ).


We had a giant (like 5" across if you included the legs) spider show up at our front door every night this summer. It would spin a (im not kidding) a 5 foot web across the entryway every night after sundown. It was big and hairy and creepy looking. The wife thought it was 'cute'.

In the morning before sunrise... it would take the entire thing down (Except for a single strand the width of the entryway, 7 feet off the ground) and eat it - then sleep and hide somewhere all day. This went on for weeks. I started getting less creeped out and actually missed our little 'pet' by the end of the summer when it no longer showed up. I think it had babies bacause I noticed some tiny tiny ones around later.

(Turns out it was a Garden Orb Weaver: Spooky new spider weaves monster webs | Observations, Scientific American Blog Network ) 

but in the house? I am looking for the nearest magazine. 

Thats my spider story, and Im sticking to it. Looked just like this


----------



## in my tree

anotherguy said:


> We had a giant spider show up at our front door every night this summer. It would spin a (im not kidding) a 5 foot web across the entryway every night after sundown. It was big and hairy and creepy looking. The wife thought it was 'cute'.
> 
> In the morning... it would take the entire thing down (Except for a single strand the width of the entryway, 7 feet off the ground) and eat it - then sleep and hide somewhere all day. This went on for weeks. I started getting less creeped out and actually missed our little 'pet' by the end of the summer when it no longer showed up. I think it had babies bacause I noticed some tiny tiny ones around later.
> 
> (Turns out it was a Garden Orb Weaver: Spooky new spider weaves monster webs | Observations, Scientific American Blog Network )
> 
> but in the house? I am looking for the nearest magazine.
> 
> Thats my spider story, and Im sticking to it.


Oh wow... we had the exact same thing happen to us! Ours went from the gate that leads into our yard and up above our front door. It was also big (an inch - 2 inches), black and hairy and built an incredible web. Unfortunately we could not open the gate and get into our house without destroying the web. Eventually we "moved" the spider to the bushes. Terrifying looking but I know that I am not it's preferred meal.

Btw - I know that Orbs are good and even funny (I've had some climb down from the tree into a friends hair and then climb back up!) but 5 inches?? No way. He's got to move and NOW!


----------



## TiggyBlue

Omg once had a 5" spider in the house when I was younger, was so petrified I was frozen on the spot for 30 mins till my little sister came home and took it outside (I made her take to the next streets tree area lol)


----------



## anotherguy

abitlost said:


> Omg once had a 5" spider in the house when I was younger, was so petrified I was frozen on the spot for 30 mins till my little sister came home and took it outside (I made her take to the next streets tree area lol)


My daughter did this to me sorta. I think parents will understand.

Im outside working. I dont know... digging in the ground or something... sweaty, focused on what I am doing. Suddenly I hear a scream with not a small touch of panic in it...

_*Daddy, Daddy, Daddy!!!*_

You know that feeling you get, when you just KNOW something isnt right? In fact something is horribly wrong? Something about this made my skin crawl and turned my blood to ice.

I dropped all my $hit and sprinted for the house, ip the back steps... I hardly remember doing it, but I tore the screen door off the hinge on my way past it. I bolted through the house - without knowing why I knew she was in her bedroom.

She was in the corner with a terrified look on her face... and a little spider on te floor in front of her. She looked like the thing was going to leap on her and eat her face.



I could feel my heart - like it was going to explode in my chest... but turned out to be nothing. I gave the spider a severe 'rug burn'. Disaster averted. Yay. She thinks I am superman.

Never had anything like that before or since - but I feel like I understand when some other parent tells me they 'paniced' when their kid got lost or something bad happened. Yikes. NOT a good feeling!


----------



## ScarletBegonias

^^^ that is SO ADORABLE!!!


----------



## anotherguy

ScarletBegonias said:


> ^^^ that is SO ADORABLE!!!


Thats not adorable... it is a big heaping platter full of heart failure. Sheesh.


----------



## AFEH

FirstYearDown said:


> Why the hostility AFEH? More than one of us have said that we need/want our husbands despite being independent. It seems like you are projecting a negative experience with independent women on to us.
> 
> I see that many of us on this thread are grateful to our men for what they provide emotionally, financially and sexually. If we "avoided intimacy like the plague", why would any of us bother to get married or have kids?
> 
> A *real *man isn't threatened by a woman wanting to be independent. My husband and I have a wonderful and passionate sex life despite my career aspirations. This is because he is secure in his manhood, so there is no need to try to stifle my dreams.


But there is no such thing as an independent person, man or woman.


There’s not even financial independence if a person works for a living. The person who works for a living is greatly dependent on the company they work for staying in business. Plus they have an inter-dependency shared with all of their colleagues.

A person is upstairs in their home, it’s on fire downstairs and full of smoke. That person is massively dependent on someone rescuing them. If that’s the fire service then the person being rescued is dependent upon all the people who pay their taxes such that there is a fire service to rescue them. A person has a crash in a car and they’re in hospital on a life support system, the list of dependencies and inter-dependencies in our lives goes on and on.

There is no such thing as an independent person. They just don’t exist. The only time a person has no need for other people in their lives is when they’re six feet under the ground.

Now if the strong independent women here are proclaiming they don’t need a man in their personal lives then that’s a very different story. But on the other hand this is a marriage forum so I do wonder why they make such posts. I kinda just don’t get it, what’s the point?


I don’t work for a living because I have unearned income (that I worked exceptionally hard to get!). I live in a luxury 4 bed, 3 bathroom house in a most beautiful part of the world. The last thing I want in my life is a woman who would be financially dependent on me. But that term “strong independent woman” is a massive turn off for a man like me because it screams out “I don’t want a man in my life”.


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## WorkingOnMe

AFEH said:


> But that term “strong independent woman” is a massive turn off for a man like me because it screams out “I don’t want a man in my life”.


:iagree:


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## anotherguy

AFEH said:


> But there is no such thing as an independent person, man or woman.
> 
> 
> There’s not even financial independence if a person works for a living. The person who works for a living is greatly dependent on the company they work for staying in business. Plus they have an inter-dependency shared with all of their colleagues.
> 
> A person is upstairs in their home, it’s on fire downstairs and full of smoke. That person is massively dependent on someone rescuing them. If that’s the fire service then the person being rescued is dependent upon all the people who pay their taxes such that there is a fire service to rescue them. A person has a crash in a car and they’re in hospital on a life support system, the list of dependencies and inter-dependencies in our lives goes on and on.
> 
> There is no such thing as an independent person. They just don’t exist. The only time a person has no need for other people in their lives is when they’re six feet under the ground.
> 
> Now if the strong independent women here are proclaiming they don’t need a man in their personal lives then that’s a very different story. But on the other hand this is a marriage forum so I do wonder why they make such posts. I kinda just don’t get it, what’s the point?
> 
> 
> I don’t work for a living because I have unearned income (that I worked exceptionally hard to get!). I live in a luxury 4 bed, 3 bathroom house in a most beautiful part of the world. The last thing I want in my life is a woman who would be financially dependent on me. But that term “strong independent woman” is a massive turn off for a man like me because it screams out “I don’t want a man in my life”.


Is this just being intentionally obtuse or nit-picky? 

I *think* she is saying, that an independant woman is a happy and a good thing.... and you are getting worked up over the word 'independent.'?

I dont think this is going far overboard with proclimations on the virtues of being 'manless' - or wanting to be rd of them.

Turn off for you..OK. Thats fine.

Me? I think a completely independant woman... one that is confident... knows what she wants... is secure and comfortable in her own skin - isnt afraid to make a decision.. can take the initiative... someone I can see as my equal in every respect... someone who can challege me intellectually... inshort - someone who can keep up. Now *there* is a sexy woman.

Women that need me to tell them what to do, need me to set the example for them, ask me about if this or that is OK... no thanks. I have kids already. Someone who needs to please me? Ew. Pul-lease.

funny.... this song just popped into my head. Fun song! Admit it! 'Fingernails that shine like justice'. Yeah baby. 

Cake: Short Skirt, Long Jacket
Short Skirt Long Jacket by Cake - YouTube

_I want a girl with a mind like a diamond
I want a girl who knows what's best
I want a girl with shoes that cut
And eyes that burn like cigarettes

I want a girl with the right allocations
Who's fast and thorough
And sharp as a tack
She's playing with her jewelry
She's putting up her hair
She's touring the facility
And picking up slack

I want a girl with a short skirt and a lonnnng jacket......

I want a girl who gets up early
I want a girl who stays up late
I want a girl with uninterrupted prosperity
Who used a machedy to cut through red tape
With fingernails that shine like justice
And a voice that is dark like tinted glass

She is fast and thorough 
And sharp as a tack
She's touring the facility
And picking up slack

I want a girl with a short skirt and a lonnnnng.... lonnng jacket

I want a girl with a smooth liquidation
I want a girl with good dividends
And at the city bank we will meet accidentally
We'll start to talk when she borrows my pen

She wants a car with a cupholder arm rest
She wants a car that will get her there
She's changing her name from Kitty to Karen
She's trading her MG for a white Chrystler Laberan

I want a girl with a short skirt and a lonnnnggggggggg jacket 
_


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## Dollystanford

well firstly I would never describe myself as such because it's naff, I'm just a woman. A pretty f*cking amazing one but a woman all the same. Sometimes I'm strong, sometimes I'm weak...

do I *need* a man? no
do I *want* a man? of course!


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## anotherguy

of course.. I dont want a woman that can wrestle me to the mat either.


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## WorkingOnMe

I could never be with a woman who couldn't bring herself to describe her feelings about me using the word "need". Even if it's just an emotional "need". I personally need the woman in my life to need me. Want is not enough.


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## Dollystanford

I wasn't talking a specific man though - I don't need a man in my life to survive, but that's not to say that I wouldn't need someone emotionally when I had them (trapped in my butterfly net)


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## anotherguy

WorkingOnMe said:


> I could never be with a woman who couldn't bring herself to describe her feelings about me using the word "need". Even if it's just an emotional "need". I personally need the woman in my life to need me. Want is not enough.


I hear that. Everyone likes to feel needed, myself included.

but I dont 'need' it, certainly.


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## COGypsy

Oh never fear boys....I'm pretty sure that a whole lot more than my little tongue in cheek commentary on the silly fears of otherwise competent adults would be a turn off for a "man like you".


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## CandieGirl

anotherguy said:


> Is this just being intentionally obtuse or nit-picky?


Just our resident hair-splitter; he could argue for 10 paragraphs on how black is actually white, but that doesn't matter, as he's wildly successful and good looking to boot. Surely, he's the most interesting man in the world.


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## CandieGirl

Most Interesting Man In The World - YouTube

:rofl:


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## CandieGirl

anotherguy said:


> of course.. I dont want a woman that can wrestle me to the mat either.


If it weren't for those implants, I'd swear this was a man. Gross.


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## TiggyBlue

Depend how you take 'independent', there are some who are independent as in 'I don't need a man, I don't need no one ect'.
Independant for me is that im doing what I want with my life (own buisness) and my self esteem and actions doesn't derive from my partner or other people's judgments.
For my life is alot easier and happier when I look into myself for answers and don't internalize other people's opinions.


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## Ten_year_hubby

WorkingOnMe said:


> I could never be with a woman who couldn't bring herself to describe her feelings about me using the word "need". Even if it's just an emotional "need". I personally need the woman in my life to need me. Want is not enough.


Not being able to allow oneself to be vulnerable enough to "need" someone and let them know it is either emotional immaturity or an internal conflict regardless of one's sex. This doesn't mean that they can't learn to be vulnerable in the right environment


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## TiggyBlue

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Not being able to allow oneself to be vulnerable enough to "need" someone and let them know it is either emotional immaturity or an internal conflict regardless of one's sex. This doesn't mean that they can't learn to be vulnerable in the right environment


That's where being strong comes into place


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## SimplyAmorous

WorkingOnMe said:


> I could never be with a woman who couldn't bring herself to describe her feelings about me using the word "need". Even if it's just an emotional "need". I personally need the woman in my life to need me. Want is not enough.


As a woman, I feel the same as this, I want my husband to "need" me too, not because he would die without me (of course he wouldn't - life goes on)....but because emotionally he is that wrapped up into me, into us, into our family... it would feel like the world gave in on him--if something happened to me... or something happened to him. 

If that is not how we FEEL -if we can't label that "need" - I guess I don't get it. ....I would question the emotional attachment personally. But hey... that is just me. 

This *Interdependence* thing is vital....as a whole - we are all dependent on something outside of ourselves...even our very health is dependent on our Creator -if we want to go that far, life can be taken away in a breath. We need others to lean on sometimes (physically, emotionally, spiritually, financially) to *enjoy * the ride while we are here... We are blessed if we have that community, that village... if not a man, then family/friends. TO live on a deserted island alone -with all the $$ in the world & dependence on ourselves ... frankly I'd rather drown myself. 

Great write up here >> Real Families » Increasing Intimacy in Marriage

It speaks of this balancing act in Interdependence >>.



> *Interdependence*
> 
> Imagine for a moment that you and your spouse are standing with the palms of your hands together and leaning against each other with all of your weight. Together, you look like an upside-down “V.” If one of you becomes tired and stops leaning, the other topples over. Similarly, a spouse who depends completely on the other person runs the risk of exhausting the partner and causing him or her to back away. Without the other spouse’s support, the dependent spouse would crumble to the ground. Now imagine that you and your spouse are standing up straight and holding hands. You lean in a little, but only enough that you support a portion of one another’s weight. If one or the other or you moves, you won’t fall. You’re responsible for most of your own weight, but you’re still connected to your spouse and lean in for extra support from time to time.
> 
> As this analogy shows, over-dependence in marriage can lead spouses to become tired and resentful of carrying the burden for the other’s happiness. Over-dependence creates feelings of powerlessness and weakness because your happiness is in someone else’s hands. Complete independence is also unhealthy because it causes spouses to feel unneeded and lonely. *Interdependence is a balance between over-dependence and independence.* In an interdependent marriage, spouses feel *needed* without being overburdened. They feel a sense of freedom and power, understanding that their happiness is in their control and not in the hands of another person.
> 
> Conclusion
> 
> Intimacy is an important part of a vibrant, loving marriage. Intimacy can be experienced at many levels, including physical, emotional, spiritual, mental, financial and recreational. Intimacy is nurtured through mutual trust, tenderness, acceptance, open communication, caring, apologies, forgiveness and respecting boundaries. Couples can work together to increase their intimacy in each area as they build their marriage through the years.


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## FirstYearDown

My husband came home after a particularly grueling day at work. 

He told me that he needed "extra cuddles and TLC" because he nearly walked out of work today with frustration.

I was happy to oblige, as my husband would be if the situation was reversed. In our marriage,we can be vulnerable with each other and it is okay to admit to having emotional needs. 

So I took my big strong man into my arms and whispered in his ear how much I appreciate everything he does for us. I told my husband that we have have the whole weekend and an anniversary getaway coming up for us to enjoy each other. 

Now he is watching TV and I am getting dinner ready. My husband may not need me to cook for him, but he certainly appreciates my efforts because acts of service are his love language. We mutually benefit from what we each bring to our marriage.


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## yogapants

I'm almost to year 20. We have 3 kids (18, 10, 9). 
After being sent to financial ruin through choices that H made when he was in control of the marriage and I followed. He told me that if I wanted to finish my degree or work - I would have to pay for daycare, costs of work and find a way to pay for school. I found a job that would pay for my degree if I got A's. Graduated with 4.0. Steadily worked hard and poured myself into building a successful career. I am now EXTREMELY well paid. I pay all the bills in the house, and save money - though since he had run us into ruin - bankruptcy 3 years ago was the only option, and I have short sale on record. We are still renting, I take care of all household cleaning/cooking/most of family coordination. 

We have grown apart. He had an long affair (almost a year), but he says he knows that he wants our family to stay together. We tried counseling - stopped - took too much time he said. Tried one of those Weekend to Remember Counseling Weekends - just left me with more questions than anything. I just can't seem to get back to the emotional connection we had. 

He is one of those people that "works for himself". He has 2 rental properties, and he finished building a house for someone middle of last year. He is in charge of his own bills, and I have no idea how much he does or doesn't owe - last I heard him state he had thousands of $$ of debt, but that he was able to pay his own bills. His "work" has no actual schedule, only vague ideas of where he is or what he has been doing - which only adds to distrust issues - though I do take his word that he will not cheat again - while we are married. 

He also feels that I owe him and I must allow him to quit all of his work, help pay his bills - and allow him to go to school full time - oh but that doesn't mean he would have enough time to help around the house. 

Is is too much to ask that he be a partner financial partner and contribute more to the household - and do more to help around the house? Am I crazy to feel that he is using me? 

I have been trying to get the sparks back - or at least the feelings of happiness when he is around - just seems lately - I would rather him be gone and leave me alone. As such, SEX is an issue. I said that if he is willing to "prime" me up - I'll give him it - but I have no desire to start anything. He says he is only able to have it if he knows I want it, but doesn't want me to fake it. Needless to say - that is a cyclical issue. Even when we go on dates - things are so strained - we keep finding that we don't have much in common.

Considering the kids, I know they would be devastated if we split, but I'm so unhappy lately. I think he is jealous of the success I have found for myselp, but... at the time - I was forced to find it myself or accept the miserable life he was giving me. 

I keep asking him to go to counseling or at least find a pastor or group to go to - but... he thinks we can resolve things. I think he knows that I will figure it out and he will lose his meal ticket and his "happy" home. I just can't see how he thinks we will resolve these issues on our own and with him not really making any changes. He is a good-looking guy. 

Any advice is appreciated! I'm just so mixed up.


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## in my tree

Yogapants - have you made your own thread regarding these issues because there is a lot going on in your life and some posters may be reticent to come into a thread entitled "Strong, Independent Women". 

You do seem very strong and have become independent. For your relationship to get stronger he has to want to work on it too. You cannot make him do that. All you can do is continue to do things for yourself and your kids. I would be very hesitant to just agree to him quitting his job and go to work. When you went to school, you worked too (AND got a 4.0! Brava!). I did the same in my life and there is no reason that he can't do the same. It sounds like he wants to go to school and not partake in any of the other responsibilities that a marriage/family life is about. Nope! I wouldn't go there. 

I don't have much more advice for you right now. I'm sure others will have a ton though if you decide to make your own OP.


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## EleGirl

CandieGirl said:


> Most Interesting Man In The World - YouTube
> 
> :rofl:


Then there is this one.... Dos Equis: The Most Gay Man in the World COMMERCIAL - YouTube

:rofl: :rofl:


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## YinPrincess

Congrats on the promotion!! 

Strong and independant? Not me. Not by a longshot. LoL!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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