# Would you agree to this?



## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Many of you know my story. I am having hard time in my marriage. This is purely a financial question though. 

I make 7k net a month. My husband is "working from home" and watching our son and gave up full time job of 85k. So now I'm shouldering the income.... But he's trying to grow his own business. That's been filled w lots of costly mistakes and drama. 

Anyway. I can count on about 9k (with my side business) a month. We got into a lease in the presumption that he was going to be brining in at least 4k a month. Now we are over stretched. The lease is 3850 a month. My husband wants to "wait and see" if he (or i) can get freelance work to afford it. I want to try to pay the 3800 dollar penalty and move to something cheaper. He is completely against moving. Says we will get to where we need to be...

We have virtually no savings and I'm scared about finances. 

With a 7 year old son, I am hesitant to force us into a apt. But it seems logical to get a savings... Husband thinks I'm crazy. 

Thoughts? Suggestions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Unless your husband goes back to full time employment, I think the smarter thing to do is to pay the penalty and get into something cheaper.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

You can't count on money you don't have yet. I say until your H can bring in the 4k, he can't have the fancy stuff and will need to learn to downgrade just a bit. At 9k a month income, it's not like you'll be living poorly at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

That is extremely steep rent. Could you move to another home that rents for less?

If you don't want to live in such a pricey abode, move. If hubs doesn't like it, let him pay the rent. If he can't, tough.

Me? I'd tell him I was moving with son. He doesn't like it? He could hit the road. But that's me. I had a crappy marriage to an alcoholic. I grew tired of being alone in a marriage.

I left. No regrets. JMO.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

If you stay, it can't be "wait and see." It has to be "you have x months to start bringing in the $4k per month we need or else we move, period." Maybe that will light a fire under his behind, or alternatively, maybe it will make him want to move if he's too lazy to do the work needed to bring in the money.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well we are currently living off of some of my 401k to make it work. And I'm going to be honest, I do NOT want to move either. But I'm getting real ... And he's still steep in avoidance. 

We had a 2 year lease and I found a cheaper apt and negotiated only a one month penalty. But my husband says the apt is not good for a 7 year old who likes to play in a yard etc. and I agree! But he doesn't like any of the houses in our price range... In our neighborhood. So trying to be reasonable yet come out of denial. Again I do NOT want to move out of this beautiful home. But my husband's jobs are not secure. He had a good meeting for future freelance work. But no check... So we have to get real, you know? 

I just feel awful. Like I can't be a fit mother because I have failed in providing for our family 



John Lee said:


> If you stay, it can't be "wait and see." It has to be "you have x months to start bringing in the $4k per month we need or else we move, period." Maybe that will light a fire under his behind, or alternatively, maybe it will make him want to move if he's too lazy to do the work needed to bring in the money.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Is there a park near the apartment? Your seven year old will survive fine. Lots of kids grow up in apartments. If your husband is so entrenched about this, give him the ultimatum -- he has x amount of time to bring in the money you need, or else you move. That was the understanding to begin with, that he'd bring in 4K per month, right?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes. It seems he wants me to recruit his biz for him. He's begging me to call my friends and try to network for his biz. 

A job just opened up with the city and I suggested he go for it and he said "I thought I was working from home". And if course I would prefer him to do that and stay home in the afternoon/evening with son, but we agreed that he needed to be making at minimum 3700 a month. He has done freelance but some of the places still haven't paid him (60 days later). So this is spotty/unreliable income. 

It's just tough because I don't want to move either. I'm just trying to be proactive. 



John Lee said:


> Is there a park near the apartment? Your seven year old will survive fine. Lots of kids grow up in apartments. If your husband is so entrenched about this, give him the ultimatum -- he has x amount of time to bring in the money you need, or else you move. That was the understanding to begin with, that he'd bring in 4K per month, right?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Yes. It seems he wants me to recruit his biz for him. He's begging me to call my friends and try to network for his biz.
> 
> A job just opened up with the city and I suggested he go for it and he said "I thought I was working from home". And if course I would prefer him to do that and stay home in the afternoon/evening with son, but we agreed that he needed to be making at minimum 3700 a month. He has done freelance but some of the places still haven't paid him (60 days later). So this is spotty/unreliable income.
> 
> ...


If you want to make this work, you can't be wishy washy about this. You're squirming. You're afraid to lay down the law. Again, if you'd prefer not to move but you feel that you can't afford to stay under current conditions, GIVE HIM AN ULTIMATUM -- he either figures out how to earn the money in a set amount of time, or you move.


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## julianne (Sep 18, 2013)

Your husband is very immature. I probably would have left after the first dog/suicide incident.

$3800 is way too much money to waste on rent, so no, I would not agree to this. You need to have some money saved up. Tell him you are being the mature one and have decided that your family needs to move to cheaper housing.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You control the purse strings. Do it wisely.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

By borrowing from your 401k you are effecting your future. That right there is the red flag. Your spending money you don't have. Sometimes in life we have to take a step backwards before we go forwards. Your husband will just have to learn that. He either has to get a real job if he wants to keep the house, or agree to live some where significantly cheaper if be wants to keep doing what he is doing now. I don't like apartments, but I'm sure you could find a much cheaper house to rent. It probably won't have the flash that the one your in now has, and you won't want to show it off to others. But you need to be in something you can afford. 

By the way. You are not a bad provider for your family. Something drastically changed in your family's income to put you in this position. That is not yours, or even your husbands fault. I'm sure he is doing the best he can to make this work, but if he wants to continue doing this he might just have to suck it up and live somewhere less glamorous to continue his business. 

Please do t play the "I make most of the money, so I am making the decisions" it won't go over well. I'm sure he is feeling a little embarrassed about not holding up his end of the family's income.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm sitting here shaking my head in disbelief.How in the world can you make that much money,net,and be in such financial trouble that you're borrowing from your 401k? How did you guys let this happen,seriously.

While I understand cost of living may be high where you're at,that kind of money for rent is absolutely unacceptable unless you're renting a single family home or townhouse from someone.Even then,you could rent a reasonable apartment and save for a down payment to buy your own damn house.Your 7 yr old is going to be happy wherever you live as long as mom and dad are happy.You're sucking money from your 401k to support a lifestyle you obviously cannot afford.For what?So you can have a pretty rental and a yard?? 

It's time for you to put your foot down.He can't keep running after his dream of owning a business bc he's obviously not very good at it.He has his head in the clouds and you are allowing him to drag you under.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

mega1 said:


> I just feel awful. Like I can't be a fit mother because I have failed in providing for our family
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


uh NO!! You need to STOP this way of thinking.You ARE providing for your family but you've got a husband who wants a lifestyle that your bank accounts cannot afford and you're letting him run the show.

You are not an unfit mother and you are kicking a$$ bringing home that kind of money every month.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> But my husband says the apt is not good for a 7 year old who likes to play in a yard etc. and I agree!


Many apartment complexes have an apartment or play set of some kind. Or you could find one with a park nearby, but - the money you are spending now for him to play in the yard might be money later you could use to send him to college. 

How much less is the apartment than the rental? And wouldn't it be wiser to invest that into his future?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

When money was tight we downsized into an apartment. The place had parks, a pool, tennis courts and green space. We stayed there until we could save for another "cheaper" house.

Blowing your retirement/savings to live is not wise.


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

You have to manage your finances based on the worst case scenarios (like he doesnt bring in the extra 4K) not the best case scenarios otherwise you will always be reacting to financial situations instead of proactively preparing.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

How can you not find a house to rent that is cheaper than that? I mean, I get things are expensive, but you have one kid so a two or three bedroom home could do you just fine. There are larger 2 and 3 bdr homes. 

Making 9k net/mo AND borrowing from your 401k is bad bad bad. You really need to sit down and write out all of your expenses. Take out what isn't needed right now...or downgrade your house and cars.
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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

mega, my H ran us into the ground financially (while I wasn't working, and I'm extremely under-educated as it is). I lost my business during that time, and he also expected me to work for him for free (leads generate commission for you. Totally reasonable expectation that he would pay you for that, married or not, with a 1099 at the end of the year.)

18 months later, we are just now not in arrears on bills and had to completely start over with savings. He supports a family of five on $42K/yr. I make custom textiles to pay for school fees, etc. We are struggling and have 1,3, 5 and ten year goals, in addition to restarting retirement savings. 25-year index funds are next on the list.

The ONE thing I should have done prior to marriage was seek joint financial counseling with him to improve _both_ our outlooks about money, saving and investing. We were both immature and we are paying dearly for it. I had no excuse, either, as my dad was a CPA. I was able to read and understand corporate ledgers at age eleven.

But...we live in a college town with many slum lords and managed to find a 1200sf house on 1/2 acre for $850/mo just outside town. It was a huge sacrifice. i'd live in a yurt if I had to to get back on our feet financially. FIVE people live in this house, and we do it. Talk to anyone who raised more than two kids any time after 1952, and you'll find out how to get this done. Go old-school and get a new backbone; the one you have has scholiosis.

Next month we're probably getting rid of internet too, to save even more money for 3 months.

How far are you willing to go to ensure financial security? In light of your past posts, it's plain that your H thinks of himself first, and you all later, and he expects you to be his mommy, benefactor and wife too. That's not a sane outlook. Buckle down!


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Mega1, you know I've read a lot of your posts and commented a lot on them. I noticed you first presented the issue in this thread as it being your husband who wanted to stay while you wanted to move. But then later in the thread you admit that you don't really want to move either. You need to own your role in this. I don't see the problem as you not being a good "provider" -- you're obviously great at that. The problem is that you keep putting these bad financial decisions entirely on your husband, when really you are contributing to them and agreeing to them. You want to place the blame on him, but you are making the decisions too. 

In my opinion, moving to a house where he HAD to make $4K per month from a non-proven business was a set-up for failure, especially given his history of unreliability. That was a situation you chose as well as him. Now you are considering getting yourself out of that and into a better situation, and I applaud you for that. But you have to be decisive about it. You don't get to keep putting all the blame on your unreliable husband while also avoiding taking action.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I totally agree. I am to blame. What I mean by not wanting to move... Is not wanting to admit I can't handle this for my son and husband. I can't do it alone. I'm not totally blaming my husband but I don't see him racing to fix this. He has NOT tried to look for other homes. He hasn't even cut off the lawn service (as I demanded) yet. That's 250 a month right there! We can get a mower off Craigslist. 

But I wanted to be successful enough in my own side biz to prevent this instability for our son. And I can't make it happen. At least not as fast as I need to. 

I just found a HOUSE with a yard (albeit smaller) for 1400 bucks a month cheaper. That's a good deal. My husband isn't keen on it do I will just have to do it. Without his blessing. It's the only way. 





John Lee said:


> Mega1, you know I've read a lot of your posts and commented a lot on them. I noticed you first presented the issue in this thread as it being your husband who wanted to stay while you wanted to move. But then later in the thread you admit that you don't really want to move either. You need to own your role in this. I don't see the problem as you not being a good "provider" -- you're obviously great at that. The problem is that you keep putting these bad financial decisions entirely on your husband, when really you are contributing to them and agreeing to them. You want to place the blame on him, but you are making the decisions too.
> 
> In my opinion, moving to a house where he HAD to make $4K per month from a non-proven business was a set-up for failure, especially given his history of unreliability. That was a situation you chose as well as him. Now you are considering getting yourself out of that and into a better situation, and I applaud you for that. But you have to be decisive about it. You don't get to keep putting all the blame on your unreliable husband while also avoiding taking action.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm sitting here shaking my head in disbelief.How in the world can you make that much money,net,and be in such financial trouble that you're borrowing from your 401k? How did you guys let this happen,seriously.
> 
> While I understand cost of living may be high where you're at,that kind of money for rent is absolutely unacceptable unless you're renting a single family home or townhouse from someone.Even then,you could rent a reasonable apartment and save for a down payment to buy your own damn house.Your 7 yr old is going to be happy wherever you live as long as mom and dad are happy.You're sucking money from your 401k to support a lifestyle you obviously cannot afford.For what?So you can have a pretty rental and a yard??


THIS. 

I'll add that too many people are optimistic about finances when they should be pessimistic. 
There's always this assumption that salary will grow and credit will be available and that isn't always the case. And once you start carrying debt (aside from the house and maybe a car) that's an indication that things aren't going well. Tapping the 401k to avoid carrying debt just changes the nature of your problem.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> I totally agree. I am to blame. What I mean by not wanting to move... Is not wanting to admit I can't handle this for my son and husband. I can't do it alone. I'm not totally blaming my husband but I don't see him racing to fix this. He has NOT tried to look for other homes. He hasn't even cut off the lawn service (as I demanded) yet. That's 250 a month right there! We can get a mower off Craigslist.
> 
> But I wanted to be successful enough in my own side biz to prevent this instability for our son. And I can't make it happen. At least not as fast as I need to.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well if you set up unrealistic goals for yourself, you're likely to fail at them. You probably didn't give yourself enough time to make the side business successful. You're obviously good at what you do given the money you're earning, so that's clearly not the problem. The problem is setting realistic goals in the first place. 

As for the lawn service, why can't you call and cancel yourself? Or barring that, tell him you want him to do it immediately and stand there and watch him do it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your husband is comfortable living above your means. He doesn't sound very practical. Which means you will have to be the one who is. 

Break the lease and move. He can tag along or not. You are throwing away a ridiculous amount of money on rent and that shouldn't continue.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

The lawn service is an easy fix. Call and cancel yourself. Your H can choose to go along with this to help the family as a whole, or he can find a way to support himself in the 3800/mo home while you move out and make better financial choices for the future. A decision has to be made though. Struggling financially takes a while to come back from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, he has his points. They include:

*If we leave we received a 3800 dollar penalty.

*We need to pay movers. (He will not budge on this-and I can't move our furniture on my own. He is very particular about how furniture is carried and wrapped. He's OCD)

*We will have to come up with another down payment of at least the new house's rent. 

He doesn't want to hear my benefits.

*We will save roughly *1500 a month and will recoup our losses in two months or so.

*This is better than the apartment that I suggested...it's in the same area (close to son's school) and has a very pretty yard for son. It's a nice house.

My point is -- I absolutely see that there's some temporary setback here. But, he makes me feel like an idiot for my desire to move us again.

He has had several meetings with prospective clients for his new business and they all sound positive. But, the only thing I can count on is a hard check with his name on it. Without proof of REAL money coming in monthly....we are struggling.

And here's my other point -- If his biz takes off or MY biz takes off...we can use that cash and have savings. What a concept..


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Why don't you look for a home to buy? A rule of thumb should be to find something you can afford on one income (current not wishful thinking) renting or buying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

How much longer is your lease? How much will it cost for movers? Why does your husband have such control over all your finances?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

Sorry, I am stuck on $250 for lawn servicing. Do they roll out new turf each month? Or do you live on 5 acres?

I live in a different country, however I thought the US was cheaper than Australia. I pay $25-$30 every month to have my lawns and gardens done.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

It sounds to me like it will take you more like 3-4 months to recoup the cost -- you have to factor in movers plus whatever minimal work you have to do to make the new place liveable. How long is on your lease?

The deposit on your new place (you call it "down payment") -- wouldn't that be more than covered by the deposit on your old place, which you're supposed to get back?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> He has had several meetings with prospective clients for his new business and they all sound positive. But, the only thing I can count on is a hard check with his name on it. Without proof of REAL money coming in monthly....we are struggling.
> 
> And here's my other point -- If his biz takes off or MY biz takes off...we can use that cash and have savings. What a concept..


What a concept indeed. But where's the beef? Again, so far he's proven himself unreliable, yet you keep expecting a different result. You're banging your head against the wall. If you want to give him a chance, it has to be based on a firm ultimatum -- you start bringing in the money in x months OR WE MOVE. Then if/when he fails to do that, you make good on your promise and call the movers.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

The 3800 dollar penalty IS the security deposit. 

So it would take about 3 months to recoup the losses (with move). 

We can't buy a house because I'm currently in bankruptcy. 

The lease had 19 months left. 



John Lee said:


> What a concept indeed. But where's the beef? Again, so far he's proven himself unreliable, yet you keep expecting a different result. You're banging your head against the wall. If you want to give him a chance, it has to be based on a firm ultimatum -- you start bringing in the money in x months OR WE MOVE. Then if/when he fails to do that, you make good on your promise and call the movers.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> The 3800 dollar penalty IS the security deposit.
> 
> So it would take about 3 months to recoup the losses (with move).
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good move to me. Either do it now, or give him a deadline to bring in the money. You shouldn't be tapping your 401k. He may try to "make you feel like an idiot" but there's no idiocy in fixing a mistake. He's the idiot if he doesn't see that. Ever hear the expression "don't throw good money after bad"?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

John Lee said:


> What a concept indeed. But where's the beef? Again, so far he's proven himself unreliable, yet you keep expecting a different result. You're banging your head against the wall. If you want to give him a chance, it has to be based on a firm ultimatum -- you start bringing in the money in x months OR WE MOVE. Then if/when he fails to do that, you make good on your promise and call the movers.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

mega1 said:


> The 3800 dollar penalty IS the security deposit.
> 
> So it would take about 3 months to recoup the losses (with move).
> 
> ...


Not taking a stab at you but, it seems that neither of you are good at handeling money. This whole prospect client future mentality needs to go. You need to plan with what you have. Look for a financial planner or at the very least read up on the subject. What you pay for rent is outrageous, no problem if you could afford it, but you can't. Many people get by with far less. 

Look into getting help.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

No I agree with you. I have been studying up with Dave Ramsey and he says 25 to 30 percent of NET monthly salary for rent or mortgage only. So that's why I am truly trying to get my husband to understand that this would be better losing the 3800 dollar security deposit and starting over on a new lease. 

He just says no....so that means I am going to have to fight a very difficult force with him. I was thinking today how wonderful it would be (truly) if he would say...honey we can make a home wherever we need to...let's do this. Let's start saving for our future. It's just not happening like that.

He won't look for a cheaper rental. He's throwing out the red flags on anything I bring along... he's fighting me. And what's worse is he's so pathetic ..that he WILL come along kicking and screaming and making me feel miserable because he has no financial choice. He knows that I'm the gravy train...and he's just coasting. 

I think that's the source of my lack of respect for him. I just can't stand it....


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> He won't look for a cheaper rental. He's throwing out the red flags on anything I bring along... he's fighting me. And what's worse is he's so pathetic ..that he WILL come along kicking and screaming and making me feel miserable because he has no financial choice. He knows that I'm the gravy train...and he's just coasting.
> 
> I think that's the source of my lack of respect for him. I just can't stand it....


I can certainly understand that -- how could you respect him when that's how he behaves? But at least you can remove some of the stress and pressure by getting your finances in order. I know that in the other thread you weren't sure whether you even could stay with the man. Well, it may actually be easier to make a clear-headed decision about that if you can take some of the other factors out of the picture. When your monthly income alone is enough to pay the bills, you can let go of the other frustrations and focus on whether you can ever accept being married to him as the man he is. 

Besides, he sounds a bit like someone who never had any limits placed on him. Maybe a little austerity will do him some good, force him to grow up a bit.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I was thinking today how wonderful it would be (truly)* if *he would say...honey we can make a home wherever we need to...let's do this. Let's start saving for our future. It's just not happening like that.
> 
> He won't look for a cheaper rental. He's throwing out the red flags on anything I bring along... *he's fighting me*. And what's worse is he's so pathetic ..that he WILL come along kicking and screaming and *making* me feel miserable because he has no financial choice.


Sounds like you are in love with your husband's potential, but not who he is really is. WHAT IF thinking is what I call this.

I'll be blunt. You live out of your means. The amount you are throwing away on rent is ridiculous. At least if you had a mortgage, you would have a tax write-off.

Your husband sits on his a$$, wants YOU to build up his business, and wants to live above his means while you foot the bill.

And, no, your husband has no power whatsoever to "make" you feel miserable. You allow him to do that by giving away your power.

Sounds like he's a self-entitled jerk who feels he deserves to live well without putting in the effort himself. 

And to be even more blunt, I don't understand why a woman who can support herself would have an albatross hanging around her neck.


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## old_soldier (Jul 17, 2012)

mega1 said:


> The 3800 dollar penalty IS the security deposit.
> 
> So it would take about 3 months to recoup the losses (with move).
> 
> ...


How in the name of sunshine do you go into bankruptcy making 7 K per month? That's 84 Grand a year!


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

170k a year... That's net. And I went bankrupt trying to repay debt. I enabled. In a big way. Now I'm having to deal with it. 



old_soldier said:


> How in the name of sunshine do you go into bankruptcy making 7 K per month? That's 84 Grand a year!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

mega1 said:


> 170k a year... That's net. And I went bankrupt trying to repay debt. I enabled. In a big way. Now I'm having to deal with it.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Until you start laying down very firm financial boundaries, you'll continue enabling. 

Your husband is an immature unmotivated child. He "needs" you to take care of the finances or you'll continue to bankruptcy #2. He "needs" you to find and maintain a stream of clients for him, or he'll just run out of work. And based on your other thread, he "needs" you to keep your sex life plugging along, because he can't be bothered. 

You know what you need to do already. You just need to work yourself up to do it.

C


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

People declare bankruptcy at all income levels. More importantly . . .

19 months left on a lease? You signed a two year lease? That is like eternity in lease years. Can you not negotiate out of your lease? Often they will let you out if they can find a new occupant who will come in and replace you at a higher rent.

I would pitch that idea to your landlord, and offer to stay until the home is filled by a new tenant. What do you have to lose?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes 2galsmom. I negotiated out with a one month penalty only. But my husband says we can't afford to do that.... So he is arguing we stay. Between that fee and the movers I estimate we would recoup out losses (by new rental savings) in about 3-4 months. 





2galsmom said:


> People declare bankruptcy at all income levels. More importantly . . .
> 
> 19 months left on a lease? You signed a two year lease? That is like eternity in lease years. Can you not negotiate out of your lease? Often they will let you out if they can find a new occupant who will come in and replace you at a higher rent.
> 
> I would pitch that idea to your landlord, and offer to stay until the home is filled by a new tenant. What do you have to lose?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Yes 2galsmom. I negotiated out with a one month penalty only. But my husband says we can't afford to do that.... So he is arguing we stay. Between that fee and the movers I estimate we would recoup out losses (by new rental savings) in about 3-4 months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is a difficult call. Why does your husband want to stay there so badly? To avoid the loss? Has he not added up all the wasted rent he would be paying for the remaining 14-15 months? Given all of your situation there may be going on and it is worth examining. Are you living in an area of prestige that he will miss? Does he have control issues and resent your taking the lead with this?

I would advise against placing my future on "future" clients of his that may or may not appear. Also, read up on personality disorders. I did not while I was trying to save my marriage and my ex-had super weird hangups about homes and it contributed to our financial ruin. He wanted me to be the breadwinner and would not move to a lesser home that was beneath him.

Some of this is familiar right?

Given all you have told us, I think there are greater issues you may be facing given your bankruptcy and struggle with the lease.

My gut says move. Get to a place where you will be able to be in a more financially responsible abode.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well he is just very particular. I know he only likes updated homes. I had tried to get him to buy a very nice home years ago that was extremely affordable. He hated it. Only wanted it if we could remodel it (even though it had just been remodeled). He felt it wasn't done well. He's just that kind of person... Picky. 

The house I found is also in the same neighborhood. Not as pretty of an area but still very nice. I tried telling him about it but he hasn't even tried to look at it. I am literally filling out his lease info for him. He would never do it. He just resents the fact that we would have to move again. Which I totally understand. But I don't know how we would continue on the way we are...






2galsmom said:


> It is a difficult call. Why does your husband want to stay there so badly? To avoid the loss? Has he not added up all the wasted rent he would be paying for the remaining 14-15 months? Given all of your situation there may be going on and it is worth examining. Are you living in an area of prestige that he will miss? Does he have control issues and resent your taking the lead with this?
> 
> I would advise against placing my future on "future" clients of his that may or may not appear. Also, read up on personality disorders. I did not while I was trying to save my marriage and my ex-had super weird hangups about homes and it contributed to our financial ruin. He wanted me to be the breadwinner and would not move to a lesser home that was beneath him.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

mega1. These are very big red flags. You have two sources of income? Did I read that correctly? He has zero and yet he is particular. You have declared bankruptcy and yet, he has no urgent need to work, he is particular.

I am a writer. I have a day job that has nothing to do with writing to pay my bills and support my children. I am also now going to get income from writing. Thus I have two jobs. You have two jobs. 

This man, has, "potential." No jobs, but promises and potential. 

Prodigal was perhaps onto something when it was suggested you are in love or focusing on his potential, or what will be instead of what is. That is how life can be robbed from you, or rather you give it away to someone who is not deserving.

That extra $ you could save on rent could be invested into a business, one he claims to want, and still he would prefer it to go to rent. Is that sound business thinking in this unfortunate recession? Nope.

You are making wise decisions and trying to improve your life, to make it healthy at least financially healthy. He is not. 

mega1, you have bigger problems with this man. Please, research Personality Disorders. Look at him for what he is, what his actions are not what he "could be" - trust me.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No offense, but he's doing the same stuff all over again. He's not saying "no", he's just putting up barriers till you give up. 

Just my thoughts...

C


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

PBear said:


> No offense, but he's doing the same stuff all over again. He's not saying "no", he's just putting up barriers till you give up.
> 
> Just my thoughts...
> 
> C


Donald Trump, Francis Ford Coppola and many others have rebounded from bankruptcy but one must learn from the mistakes! PBear is right, he is on a stubborn path and repeating history at this rate. Why? You are in a power struggle with him mega1. If he wins, you BOTH lose. 

Reflect and look at what is really going on with him, please.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm sorry....I really am. But you frustrate the heck out if me.

First off....NETTING 9 to 10K per month means your in the top 25% of standard wage earners. Because gross, that means you make at least 150k per year.


And.....you still went bankrupt.

I have some suggestions for you...and no disrespect intended

1. I have a beautiful 4 bedroom house. That I own...or at least the bank owns. Big back yard. Swing set. Trampoline. We even pull out a pool in the summer. Total cost.... 950 a month

2. I have this awesome reliable yard service I use. Does the best job ever and it's actually up to my standards. 250/ month? Nope. That's a rip off! Total cost to me....one time payment of 250 dollars and one hour of my time every Saturday morning. It's called Wall mart. I actually splurged and got a deluxe model lawn mower.

Ok. Enough sarcasm. At 10k per month and worrying about a second bankruptcy...I really have no sympathy for you or your husband, Again...no disrespect.

What you need is to call up that lady on the tv show "till debt do us part", because it seems neither of you have a realistic view of money, savings, the economy, or financial planning.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Btw....you do understand that 66% of the nation lives off of a measly average family income of about 45k per year gross....without going bankrupt....and you need to actually make it work for a measly 148k per year NET?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> Btw....you do understand that 66% of the nation lives off of a measly average family income of about 45k per year gross....without going bankrupt....and you need to actually make it work for a measly 148k per year NET?


And let us not forget that the rest of us get to suffer when someone makes horrible money choices and goes bankrupt.Who gets to pay for that in the end...exactly.

I just loooooove shouldering the debt of others.Don't you?!


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> I make 7k net a month. My husband is "working from home" and watching our son and gave up full time job of 85k. So now I'm shouldering the income.... But he's trying to grow his own business. That's been filled w lots of costly mistakes and drama.


Until your H is helping to shoulder the bills again, I think you need to tighten your belts. Pay the penalty and find less expensive accommodation.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, this is accurate, as I do have 2 sources of income. And I'm also in an online mastermind of business owners ... Trying to learn how to grow my side business. 

As for my husband, he has always worked a traditional job. It never paid as well, but he was successful. However, recently I got a job transfer/promotion back to a city that we used to call home. He wanted to try business on his own. Instead, of taking job offers that were presented to him as soon as he moved back... He kept pushing toward freelance work. He IS making money, but it's sporadic and he has tried to get me to do his marketing and proposals. I just don't have the time for that... 

Again, I will give him credit for recruiting some business but he doesn't have a reliable flow of income. He watches our son after school (7) and coaches his soccer team. This is obviously good. But he's not bringing in enough cash to support the rent we have signed up for. And he is blaming the loss of one month's rent for his reluctance to move. 






2galsmom said:


> mega1. These are very big red flags. You have two sources of income? Did I read that correctly? He has zero and yet he is particular. You have declared bankruptcy and yet, he has no urgent need to work, he is particular.
> 
> I am a writer. I have a day job that has nothing to do with writing to pay my bills and support my children. I am also now going to get income from writing. Thus I have two jobs. You have two jobs.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> As for my husband, he has always worked a traditional job. It never paid as well, but he was successful.


"As well" as your job? I mean 85k a year is a really good income, in my mind. 



> He watches our son after school (7) and coaches his soccer team.


So your son is in school all day, and you are paying someone $250 a month to mow the lawn why? What exactly is your husband doing all day, as it apparently isn't building his business.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes 85k was a good salary. But that's obviously a thing of the past. 

And yes... He's in school until 3 everyday. My husband says he is working hard had recruiting. He does work 10 hrs a week on a freelance job now, but that gig ends next week. And THAT is why I'm in panic mode. 

The house is a wreck ... Laundry not done. And he was talking about hiring a maid. 


Starstarfish said:


> "As well" as your job? I mean 85k a year is a really good income, in my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> So your son is in school all day, and you are paying someone $250 a month to mow the lawn why? What exactly is your husband doing all day, as it apparently isn't building his business.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Yes 85k was a good salary. But that's obviously a thing of the past.
> 
> And yes... He's in school until 3 everyday. My husband says he is working hard had recruiting. He does work 10 hrs a week on a freelance job now, but that gig ends next week. And THAT is why I'm in panic mode.
> 
> ...


Stop panicking, stop making excuses, stop looking for reasons to resent your husband, and take charge. You know what he is and how he behaves. Be responsible. Stop the magical thinking -- "well maybe he'll get it together." Ok maybe, but until he does, put yourselves in a position where you're not relying on that to pay the bills. Starting to feel like a broken record. You're certainly sounding like a broken record.


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

alphaomega you MEANT to be disrespectful and you are in no way sorry - why lie? If you are so bitter about the money other people make why don't you go out and make more for yourself since you have all the answers, it may help with your anger issues.

mega1 - if we dare point out any flaws with your husband, you will defend him. I know the drill. But accept no more excuses from this man. This is your life and you are just treading water instead of swimming for safety at the shore.

Let me tell you a WORSE situation. He does for a brief time meet his alleged potential, he brings in a lot of money and you think your sacrifice and acceptance of this man pays off. Then his flawed thinking blows it all, AGAIN, and you my friend have wasted more years of your life with him and will find yourself older, more tired and have the need to rebuild.

Why is the thinking so unrealistic on his part? A maid? No way mega1. You are unrealistic in your expectance of his meeting his potential and changing into something you want him to be, something perhaps you feel he should be. He wants a maid? Again, do research, but not at this site, on personality disorders. 

In the meantime do not panic. Never panic it clouds the judgement. Does he have a job or not? See what he does when his freelance job ends, maybe he will come through but if he doesn't start looking at reality and not what reality could be if he would just stop being less picky and more cooperative. 

Good luck to you mega1.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Stop panicking, stop making excuses, stop looking for reasons to resent your husband, and take charge. You know what he is and how he behaves. Be responsible. Stop the magical thinking -- "well maybe he'll get it together." Ok maybe, but until he does, put yourselves in a position where you're not relying on that to pay the bills. Starting to feel like a broken record. *You're certainly sounding like a broken record.*




Amen to that.:smthumbup:


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

mega, stop hoping and start acting.

You've seen my story of financial struggle: we can't even afford to declare backruptcy and my years off work have made me unemployable. I'm a SAHM with a seriously disabled kid. All of my kids go to school...and my house is still clean...by me when they were little, and now now they have chores. 

Suggestions so far have been right:

No maid. Your H lives there and is there at least 7 hours per day, so he can do 65-75% of the work. It's called being a SAHD. He can still work that ten hours per week.

Buy a lawnmower and DIY it.

Downsize ASAP and take the hit for 6 months. The long-term payoff is rebuilding your 401K (and put that $$ in something stable, like index funds!)

Put kiddo in after school care, then...
Give H an ultimatum: get regular work locally, in his field, or leave.

YOU are supporting a freeloading whiner. HE knows he can manipulate and whine as long as he needs to until you give in.

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life playing Mommy to a grown man? Please move beyond the fear of being considered a failure if you leave him; you're more than competent enough to support you and your child.

I'm running out patience, mega. We make less than half of what you do, support a big family and I still work 20+ hours per week from home. he's feeding you a big load of bull so he can be a slacker.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

mega1 said:


> But my husband says the apt is not good for a 7 year old who likes to play in a yard etc. and I agree!


Apartments are great for kids imo. I spent some of my child years growing up in an apartment complex. There was a playground, a pool, nooks and crannies to play in... and a ton of kids living right there to play with.

What is important to an adult is not the same as what is important to a child. Those apartment years were some of the best years of my childhood.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

OH gosh. He sounds just like my NPD ex. Huge house, mercedes and boat but had to foreclose because he bit off too much. I should have listened to my gut instead of his delusions of gradeur.

He has no say. He has no income. He's living a lifestyle he can't support without you. He has champagne taste on a moonshine budget.

Tell him when the movers are coming and that the lease was signed. He'll either want to come along with his gravy train or not. The more you take out of your 401k (they let you KEEP that in bankruptcy?!?!?! Appalling....) the less you have for the future.

Rent the house until you can buy again. If you won't divorce him I suggest you get a legal separation to protect yourself financially. Keep all of your finances separate until he grows up.

ETA when I left him, I rented an $850/month house, paid a $400 car payment (NOT lease) and $600 in daycare on 40K (INCLUDING child support). Time to make some BIG changes. The reduced stress will make you love the smaller place just as much.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> He has no say. He has no income. He's living a lifestyle he can't support without you. He has champagne taste on a moonshine budget.
> 
> *Tell him when the movers are coming and that the lease was signed. He'll either want to come along with his gravy train or not. * The more you take out of your 401k (they let you KEEP that in bankruptcy?!?!?! Appalling....) the less you have for the future.
> 
> Rent the house until you can buy again. If you won't divorce him I suggest you get a legal separation to protect yourself financially. Keep all of your finances separate until he grows up.


Its time that YOU take control! YOU cancel the lawn service. YOU find a waaay cheaper place to rent in a place where YOU want to live. YOU line up the movers. He gets no vote, he gets no say so. Tell him he either comes along, or go back to live with his mommy. Though, I cannot for the life of me figure out WHY you would WANT him to come along, all he is going to do is make you miserable and continue to drag you down.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

2galsmom said:


> alphaomega you MEANT to be disrespectful and you are in no way sorry - why lie? If you are so bitter about the money other people make why don't you go out and make more for yourself since you have all the answers, it may help with your anger issues.
> 
> mega1 - if we dare point out any flaws with your husband, you will defend him. I know the drill. But accept no more excuses from this man. This is your life and you are just treading water instead of swimming for safety at the shore.
> 
> ...


Hi 2gals,

I make a pretty decent 6 figure salary as VP of a tech company. Haven't gone bankrupt. Don't have a maid. Mow my own lawn. Have a mediocre house in a nice middle class neighborhood.

I also know how hard it was to work from entry level to where I am today. I understand the value of a dollar. What it took to get that dollar.

What I am getting at is that there is no reason to go bankrupt at 148k net per. What I am not sympathetic to is that the OP is in such dire straights with that kind of income. It's just not feasible. What I think, IMO, is that we have a case of "keeping up to the joneses", with a side dish of too much pride.

Realistically, you don't need the 4k a month rental. Realistically....you know what kind of house you could get at 4k per month mortgage on most centers? You knw what kind of house you could get at 2k per month? Or, in my case, 1k per month?

If the OP is hurting, it's time to roll a hard six and tighten up those suspenders. there's no one to blame here but her and her husband. It's an easy fix. Downgrade. Live within your means. At that income, they could pay 1/4 of what they do on a mortgage and still look like a joneses.

My kids don't give a shat what kind of house we live in. It's clean. It has a back yard. Everyone has thier own room and space....

You know what I do with that extra 3k a month I'm not spending on rent? I take my kids to Mexico, or Disneyland. They don't talk about our house.....but they sure as shat remember having fun on those trips.

Not to mention having enough mo ey for life experiences for them, like sports and class trips and music lessons. Etc. etc.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

And if your drawing on your 401k just to make ends meet, with that kind of income.....that's just insane.

What happens when a company decides to purchase the one she works at, and then all of a sudden....your redundant. No more 148k per year. Oh wait! no more 401k withdrawals to get me Through the rough patches......

It happens. Happened to me in my awesomely secure "measly" 90k per year job I had for, like, ever.... Guess what? No more 90k per year. You know who benefited from that life experience? The guy who held 50.5 % of the shares of the company that wanted the cash and the 3:1 buyout on the stocks. The rest of us? We mean **** when it comes to that kind of currency....

The point is...live also for the future. Not just the now and how you "look" in the eyes of those you are trying to impress.

Btw....I can host an awesome party in my meager house with all that extra cash..... And my "filthy rich" friends have a blast. Hey! I guess i Look like a johnses!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Ego, sensitivity, hope and denial aside, it comes down to math.

What's your next step going to be?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

It does come down to math. There's no question. I will talk with him tonight. I'm sure he will put up a fight because just yesterday he was trying to convince me that he needed to buy cameras for an upcoming job (he normally rents). I said how might we swing that? His response was well the only way this biz is going to work comes down to it is time to [email protected] or get off the pot". 

I said but how would we afford it? This potential job would only pay 2k and he wants at least 4k worth of equipment purchases. He couldn't answer. 

Not to mention that he completely avoided talking to me yesterday to see how I was doing ... Knowing my bankruptcy case was going before a trustee again (out of state). I'm certain he forgot even though I reminded him several times in the weeks prior. 

So he asks for equipment on the same day the trustees review my case again? 





heartsbeating said:


> Ego, sensitivity, hope and denial aside, it comes down to math.
> 
> What's your next step going to be?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Is It Just Me (Sep 8, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Your husband sits on his a$$, wants YOU to build up his business, and wants to live above his means while you foot the bill.
> 
> Sounds like he's a self-entitled jerk who feels he deserves to live well without putting in the effort himself.
> 
> And to be even more blunt, I don't understand why a woman who can support herself would have an albatross hanging around her neck.






TikiKeen said:


> YOU are supporting a freeloading whiner. HE knows he can manipulate and whine as long as he needs to until you give in.
> 
> Do you really want to spend the rest of your life playing Mommy to a grown man? Please move beyond the fear of being considered a failure if you leave him; you're more than competent enough to support you and your child.
> 
> he's feeding you a big load of bull so he can be a slacker.







3Xnocharm said:


> He gets no vote, he gets no say so. Tell him he either comes along, or go back to live with his mommy. Though, I cannot for the life of me figure out WHY you would WANT him to come along, all he is going to do is make you miserable and continue to drag you down.






EnjoliWoman said:


> He has no say. He has no income. He's living a lifestyle he can't support without you. He has champagne taste on a moonshine budget.
> 
> Tell him when the movers are coming and that the lease was signed. He'll either want to come along with his gravy train or not.
> 
> If you won't divorce him I suggest you get a legal separation to protect yourself financially. Keep all of your finances separate until he grows up.






alphaomega said:


> What I am not sympathetic to is that the OP is in such dire straights with that kind of income. It's just not feasible. What I think, IMO, is that we have a case of "keeping up to the joneses", with a side dish of too much pride.






All of the above are correct.

I think everyone has shown sympathy towards you, but it's time for you to face the facts. You are married to someone who has consistently shown he has NO desire to be a partner in your marriage, but instead, wants to be someone who is taken care of. 

You are married to someone with the emotional level of a 10-year-old. If you are fine with essentially having a second child, that's completely your call. If you are not, then the onus is upon YOU to change YOUR behaviors (and yes, YOU are 50% responsible for this mess) and either be a better 'parent' to your husband by forcing limits and enforcing boundaries OR by you filing for separation/divorce. 

It is painfully clear that your situation is never going to change if you continue to wait for HIM to see the light. And, honestly, why should be? HIS status quo is fantastic: he gets to live a life of leisure and opulence that someone else pays for. Would you want to rock the boat if you were him?

Lastly, even if you don't want to do anything for you, please think about the example this is setting for your son. He will think it's perfectly fine for just 1 spouse to do all the work while the other just sits there. Is your marriage the kind you want your son to someone have? Would you be okay with your son treating your future DIL the way your husband treats you?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Honestly, I think my biggest issue is that I second guess my gut reaction to things and I often come back here "defending" my husband because I want to provide a fair analysis. So that's why I often wonder if my daily dealings are normal or off kilter. 

This weekend's play by play is a great example. I had a networking merging Saturday night at 7 in a town 3 hours away. I invited my husband (and son) since I only had to work for 2 hours. Husband went back and forth and ultimately said no.., we will stay home... Let's just have a family day before you leave. So we went bowling. I needed to be back home in the shower at 3pm. We all knew this. He chose to grab lunch (despite my objections) and get me back home about 30 minutes late. He was driving.., 

So as I raced to get ready he then decided that he felt bad and chose to pack up and have them both go with. So then we were late and he wanted to drop me at my business event and leave me without a car. I had to put my foot down and make them cab it. 

I'm now back. He texted me throughout the event to see if I was okay. And I came back to complaints that the storm kept them from going anywhere and they were stuck in the hotel. 

How does a normal objective person read that? 



Is It Just Me said:


> All of the above are correct.
> 
> I think everyone has shown sympathy towards you, but it's time for you to face the facts. You are married to someone who has consistently shown he has NO desire to be a partner in your marriage, but instead, wants to be someone who is taken care of.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Well we are currently living off of some of my 401k to make it work. And I'm going to be honest, I do NOT want to move either. But I'm getting real ... And he's still steep in avoidance.
> 
> We had a 2 year lease and I found a cheaper apt and negotiated only a one month penalty. But my husband says the apt is not good for a 7 year old who likes to play in a yard etc. and I agree! But he doesn't like any of the houses in our price range... In our neighborhood. So trying to be reasonable yet come out of denial. Again I do NOT want to move out of this beautiful home. But my husband's jobs are not secure. He had a good meeting for future freelance work. But no check... So we have to get real, you know?
> 
> I just feel awful. Like I can't be a fit mother because I have failed in providing for our family


Yes you have to get real. Plan to live on the income you can count on… your income.

If the houses in your price range are in a safe neighborhood, then YOU pick the one you like and move. It’s better than an apartment.

Your husband is playing a mind game here.. .the only good house is the one you are living in (that you cannot afford) and apartments are not good for a child. He’s trying to take away all options so that you have to live where you are.

Make your decision and move. Shoot maybe move without him. Now there’s an idea.

Just do what you know you need to do.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Although hesitant to jump at a PD, he sounds so much like someone with narcissistic personality disorder - all about him, disregard for you or where you need to be, delusions of grandeur, dismissive of the rest of the world. He feels he DESERVES to be catered to - the lawn service, the maid, you to capitulate to his whims... if he really is, he is unlikely to ever change. A true NPD never sees there is every anything wrong with them so you can reason with them until you are blue in the face and all you will get is criticism for not doing things their way and 'punished' when you don't by pouting or being passive-aggressive.

You obviously are a smart, professional woman who can make good decisions in your business life. Start treating your marriage like it's a business. Would you allow a business to to have a red balance sheet? Would you allow a business to borrow and continue to rack up debt when your earnings are less than your expenses? Wouldn't you reduce overhead? How? Via equipment leases (cable, etc), office space (home), services (lawn/maid) and non-productive personnel (husband).

Time to think with your head because thinking with your heart isn't going to keep you afloat.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

You all have given me excellent advice and feedback. Thank you....

I see that it really does come down to both of us being our own version of denial. He honestly confuses me because some of the stuff he does Is truly out of frugality. 

He loves using coupons at the grocery store... He will often look for deals on silly things like toilet paper. But then fights to stay in the house? It just doesn't make sense. 

The reason we were so late for my biz meeting 3 hours out of town yesterday.., was because he HAD to find the best deal on Priceline for a hotel. It had to be a nice hotel (4 star) ... And that desire was so strong for him to get a "deal" he made me very late! 

So do you see how confusing this is? He's a bargain shopper .. In some ways?! Just seems confusing to me. 



EnjoliWoman said:


> Although hesitant to jump at a PD, he sounds so much like someone with narcissistic personality disorder - all about him, disregard for you or where you need to be, delusions of grandeur, dismissive of the rest of the world. He feels he DESERVES to be catered to - the lawn service, the maid, you to capitulate to his whims... if he really is, he is unlikely to ever change. A true NPD never sees there is every anything wrong with them so you can reason with them until you are blue in the face and all you will get is criticism for not doing things their way and 'punished' when you don't by pouting or being passive-aggressive.
> 
> You obviously are a smart, professional woman who can make good decisions in your business life. Start treating your marriage like it's a business. Would you allow a business to to have a red balance sheet? Would you allow a business to borrow and continue to rack up debt when your earnings are less than your expenses? Wouldn't you reduce overhead? How? Via equipment leases (cable, etc), office space (home), services (lawn/maid) and non-productive personnel (husband).
> 
> Time to think with your head because thinking with your heart isn't going to keep you afloat.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yolandi (Oct 27, 2013)

Mega1, your relationship with your husband is so confusing to me. You seem like such a successful person professionally, but your continued relationship problems have me scratching my head. 

You just seem so unequally yoked. 

I can't remember if it was mentioned in this thread or a different one of yours, but your husband ended up losing a $35,000 business deal because of the account number he gave to your client. Many marriages would be destroyed by anger if something like that happened. But in your situation it is something else to add to the list of his inadequacies. 

I think you need to sever your business relationships with your husband if you want your relationship to continue and get better. Beyond your relationship flourishing, you also need to consider what kind of professional image you are presenting to the world when you are getting paid for consulting services. 

Your husband may do a fine job for someone when they consider only the actual job he is doing, but sometimes the little things really matter. Like your potential client backing out when they had to wire money more than once. 

Bring the hammer down! 

If I were you, this is the gist of what I would say:

DH, going through bankruptcy has made me question the direction our life is headed. I feel we need to make some major changes to deal with our situation effectively.

Regarding money, we need to be more wise about how we live. Taking money out of our 401K to live on can not continue. Having a maid service, lawn service, etc is not an option. (insert more specifics about your financial situation)

As for our relationship, I feel some changes are in order as well. I know you wanted to work freelance instead of a regular job. I wanted you to have what you wanted, and we gave it a chance. But it is not working for me and our family situation. I feel we are in dangerous territory here...combining work with family relationships has put a lot of stress on us. 

I want you to be my husband and life partner instead of a work partner and husband. Combining the two is not working out. When I see you in the evening, I want to be able to enjoy our family unit, not worry about work. 

----------
I could go on all day, but I hope you get the idea.

Maybe write out exactly what you could say, and write out what you think his rebuttals will be. Go ahead and have factual answers for him, so that you will be prepared to actually pull of some much needed changes.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> The reason we were so late for my biz meeting 3 hours out of town yesterday.., was because he HAD to find the best deal on Priceline for a hotel. It had to be a nice hotel (4 star) ... And that desire was so strong for him to get a "deal" he made me very late!


No, he did not make you late; you did. Why? Because you didn't stand up for yourself and tell him you were leaving at such-and-such a time, and if he wasn't ready you would leave without him.

Isn't this obvious to you?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> He loves using coupons at the grocery store... He will often look for deals on silly things like toilet paper. But then fights to stay in the house? It just doesn't make sense.
> 
> So do you see how confusing this is? He's a bargain shopper .. In some ways?! Just seems confusing to me.


Actually, it is only confusing because you are fixated on his erratic and somewhat illogical behavior. 

If you owned what you have the power to control and got off his side of the street, you wouldn't be in this mess. Nor would you be "confused."

Ask yourself why you dance to the beat of his drum, react to his behavior, and spend time trying to figure him out.

Life is about living your life, not his.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I didn't read your whole thread, but $3850 a month is very high for your income. We have the same income as you and have a $1350 mortgage payment. I can't imagine your rent; we wouldn't be able to eat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

No the problem was I was out with him and my son and I told them I had to be home by a certain time. But they were loligagging at lunch and we were all in the same car. I couldn't just leave them at the restaurant. I had to wait for them... 

But I understand everything else you are saying... 




Prodigal said:


> No, he did not make you late; you did. Why? Because you didn't stand up for yourself and tell him you were leaving at such-and-such a time, and if he wasn't ready you would leave without him.
> 
> Isn't this obvious to you?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He clips coupons and checks hotel prices because it's easier than addressing the real problems in money management. He sabotages mega's work efforts because he resents her.

But don't worry, he'll cook her dinner and give her a foot rub and that will keep her quiet for a while.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

When you put it like that.... It hits home. 

I always see his acts of kindness and genuine. When you show me the big picture... It's probably a diversion tactic. 







Blondilocks said:


> He clips coupons and checks hotel prices because it's easier than addressing the real problems in money management. He sabotages mega's work efforts because he resents her.
> 
> But don't worry, he'll cook her dinner and give her a foot rub and that will keep her quiet for a while.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> No the problem was I was out with him and my son and I told them I had to be home by a certain time. But they were loligagging at lunch and we were all in the same car. I couldn't just leave them at the restaurant. I had to wait for them...


You keep making excuses. That's what most people who respond to you are pointing out.

Why not leave them at the restaurant? Your husband didn't give a good cahoot if you were late for your event.

You could have caught a cab. You could have taken the car and told them to catch a cab.

You make excuses. You want to remain in this relationship. Believe me, nobody puts up with this sort of crap unless they just want to remain stuck and complain.

Your husband does his part to sabotage you. But you are sabotaging yourself.

It baffles me as to why a woman who can support herself and her child clings to such a jerk of a guy. He coaches soccer. He clips coupons. And he sits on his lazy a$$ with a sense of entitlement to have things he hasn't worked hard to get for himself.

You are stuck because YOU have made the decision to remain stuck. You apparently lack the ability to set boundaries and enforce them.

So, hubs dragged his feet at the restaurant, you didn't take control of the situation, and now you are the victim.

Think about that.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

You are correct, Prodigal. Not much to debate or argue.


I think my biggest obstacle is our son. He's 7 -- very happy. We don't fight in front of him...although we don't hug or kiss much in front of him, either.


I will say we have some odd co-dependent behaviors though....for example, I work from 1 to 10pm. I come home for dinner (about an hour) and get to hang with my son. But, otherwise, I don't get to see him very much. So, I wake up and take him to school. But, strangely enough, my husband drives us....He doesn't need to. But, he does... we all go...including the dog. 


I have mentioned to my husband that he doesn't need to come and he turns it into a passive aggressive thing ..."well, if you don't want me to spend time with you guys...I won't." 


You see how that goes... Is that as odd as I suspect it might be?


If I leave...my son will never see me during the week. I know that sounds like an "excuse" but it's reality. I don't think any mother WANTS to do that.. I think I would lose custody and only get him on the weekends. That's what the lawyer told me anyway.


As for my bankruptcy...well it's been dismissed. That means I have to file ALL OVER again in our new state. My "stay" from the creditors is now gone. I suggested to my husband that I try saving to be able to negotiate with these creditors and ...over time...get this all taken care of. Filing Chapter 13 means that I will be paying for FOUR years.. about 1k a month. So, essentially, I will be in bankruptcy for FOUR years... and living on the government's allotments. My husband nearly freaked when he realized how the government rationalizes living expenses... 


So...he's not really keen on any of this. He just doesn't say anything...hoping, most likely, that I will continue in denial. Instead, he asked me again today...if he could buy equipment for his business.


I said "if you can figure out how to afford that...let me know." He basically hung up the phone on me.. 


So...talk about one big mess. I truly love my son...and even elements of our "family life" We do everything together...well, unless I'm working.... 


But, I love that boy and I worry about what would happen if I walked away. 


I will say ...my son made a comment this weekend ...that made me realize that all of this is definitely going into his brain...and sticking. I was talking about apartments and showing him a few online. I told him it would be so exciting...because he might have friends who live right next door! He said "apartments are for poor people, Mom... I am NOT moving to an apartment."


I said that's not true...sometimes people live there temporarily until they are able to get a house! He said "no amount of convincing me will work...Mom. I am NOT moving to an apartment! Where would I play soccer, my room would be so small. NO way..."


He's 7.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

tennisstar said:


> I didn't read your whole thread, but $3850 a month is very high for your income. We have the same income as you and have a $1350 mortgage payment. I can't imagine your rent; we wouldn't be able to eat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


+1 on this. My income is in the same ballpark, and my rent is $1500. I might go up some when I want to buy a house, but not much more. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

mega1 said:


> You are correct, Prodigal. Not much to debate or argue.
> 
> 
> I think my biggest obstacle is our son. He's 7 -- very happy. We don't fight in front of him...although we don't hug or kiss much in front of him, either.
> ...


That's great that your son is picking up his father's entitled attitude. Wait till he demands you hire a tutor to do his homework for him...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almost There (Oct 23, 2013)

Some people live in apartments because they simply don't need a lot of space. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The right thing is different for lots and lots of people... are you okay with how your husband is rubbing off on your child?

Honestly... I see so many people saying "I'm staying for my kids" when the sad fact is... they would be BETTER OFF with HAPPIER, DIVORCED parents. This is not the case always, but if you can't fix your marriage... please, don't stay around for the kids. My parents tried to R for 5 years and those were some of the unhappiest years of my WHOLE LIFE. I never wanted to be home. Divorce was hard, yes, but it's something to GET OVER, and move on from. Then... it's over. Living with parents who can't stand each other or aren't a good role model for being happy in a relationship is something you live with every day of your life and it's not fun. My parents got divorced... my boyfriends' parents just hated each other in the same home while 'staying together for the kids.' He told me he wishes they would've gotten divorced, then maybe they could've been happy.

Kids see more than you think, and yours is already picking up on how your husband behaves and sees the world. It's very unhealthy! The best thing you can do for children is to show them what YOU would want THEM to do if they were in your situation. You'd want him to be happy, right? To have the self respect to stand up to his spouse and say "this isn't right, this needs to change, if not I'm gone"? So show him that's how you do it. Show him how to be an upstanding person; because the relationship you're showing him now is not something you'd want for him.. right?

One of the most important lessons I've learned my whole life was something my mom taught me by divorcing my dad. She said in actions: "I AM WORTH MORE THAN THIS. I deserve to be happy." It was a powerful lesson for a little girl to learn, and I never forgot it. I'm a more confident person at 23 than my mom is nearing 50 because she took the time and had the courage to teach me about her mistakes and let me watch her fix them.

At the very least, it sounds like money is a serious issue in your household, and you needs to rein him in. Where does it all go?? I would LOVE to make 7k a month. I would be saving a ton and I wouldn't worry about affording anything! The amount you said you spend on rent is just crazy. Crazy!! My boyfriend would look at me like I turned into Barney the Dinosaur if I suggested we spend that much just on living arrangements!

And as to your son being happy where he is... well, okay. I was spoiled when I was younger.. my parents made a ridiculous amount of money, saved none of it, and I got a lot of what I wanted. When my parents divorced... money was tighter. Did I like it? No. Did it teach me the value of money? Yes. I had to budget on my own when I went to college - granted, I was still LUCKY with what I had, but I did stick to a strict monthly budget barring emergencies - and it taught me even more. I'm glad I had these experiences... can you even imagine going into college thinking "apartments are for poor people"? My world view changed a lot when money suddenly wasn't pouring in with 2 parents in very high-paying careers. Frankly, it was good for me!!


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## solvency7 (Jun 15, 2013)

If there ever came a time,or situation like yours that my career or ideas meant having to move because i hadnt got it together,id forget it and go back out to work. You have a child,simple as that,id work till my hands fell off instead of moving.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Solvency... Not quite sure I understand exactly what you mean, you would divorce?




solvency7 said:


> If there ever came a time,or situation like yours that my career or ideas meant having to move because i hadnt got it together,id forget it and go back out to work. You have a child,simple as that,id work till my hands fell off instead of moving.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GingerAle (Oct 13, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Solvency... Not quite sure I understand exactly what you mean, you would divorce?
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think Solvency means that your hubby needs to go back to work.

GINGER


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> Thoughts? Suggestions?


Dave Ramsey Homepage - daveramsey.com


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Oh that's for sure! But he says "he's trying" to get more work. He has had a few meetings with clients. But no contracts. 

So I have a number of friends who are very connected. They all feel comfortable with me and my husband keeps saying "what's the latest with --- why haven't you followed up to see if they could connect me and get me a meeting with -----. 

So should I just stop doing that? I feel as if I stop I will hold up ALL progress...




GingerAle said:


> I think Solvency means that your hubby needs to go back to work.
> 
> GINGER


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> So I have a number of friends who are very connected. They all feel comfortable with me and my husband keeps saying "what's the latest with --- why haven't you followed up to see if they could connect me and get me a meeting with -----.
> 
> So should I just stop doing that? I feel as if I stop I will hold up ALL progress...


I have the feeling that people are just going to get tired of debating this with you. Seriously.

You are married to a jerk. It is beyond my comprehension. What makes you think a judge would grant primary custody to your husband who doesn't earn a decent living?

Here is the thing: You want to remain with your husband. You have no intentions of leaving. You will continue to enable him and remain rabidly codependent.

I see this all the time on TAM. Men and women come here and moan and groan for ages. But they stay put.

You have nothing more than what-if excuses and other such lame reasons to stay with this crumb. And when your son decides he deserves a Beemer for his sixteenth birthday, don't be surprised.

You are in this mess because you choose to be in this mess. Sorry, but that is the blunt truth. So continue to spin your excuses for staying with that pathetic excuse for a husband.

You really don't want help. And if you don't believe me, read page after page here where you have written tons of lame excuses to remain with a childish, self-serving, lazy jerk.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Actually, Prodigal..I think you and a lot of others here are giving me some much needed perspective. It's harsh truth but I know it's necessary.

I talked with him tonight and told him that he "forgot" about my BKRPTCY hearing and that it was dismissed...meaning I would have to file all over again. He was so angry at my lawyer (he did make a paperwork snafu, that he corrected)...that he suggested I either sue HIM or file a complaint with the bar association to get a refund from him. THEN - he said "I guess that means you want me to get a day job"...I said ...I think it's the only option! He said but childcare is very expensive! I said...we could find someone for 12-15 an hour to sit for us for 2.5 hours a day. That's all that would be required...He said that was going to be more like 20.00 an hour...but he said he would look for a job. He was so pouty...and frustrated with me..I almost told him right there that we were done. 

I just couldn't believe before my very eyes...that I am saying "I" am filing bkrpty again and he throws a hissy fit about having to get a real job. He said that he is having success making about 2-3k a month doing freelance work....but I reminded him that now he wants to buy equipment which will completely nullify most of his profits. So, he put his head in his hands...rubbed his face and said "I will look...that's all I can do. I'll see what's out there." 

SO that's how we ended it. And I am going to do my best...to look for apartments.


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## lucky me (Aug 6, 2012)

You make the money so YOU get to make the rules


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> He was so pouty...and frustrated with me..I almost told him right there that we were done.
> 
> So, he put his head in his hands...rubbed his face and said "I will look...that's all I can do. I'll see what's out there."
> 
> SO that's how we ended it.


I think everyone here has given you about all the advice they can. I dunno ... maybe some folks will come along who haven't chimed in and you can go another round.

The way I see it, from what I highlighted in your latest post, is you aren't done. He's still manipulating you and you are still dancing to his tune.

Now you'll go look at apartments, he'll throw a fit, and you'll come back here asking if feeling frustrated/annoyed/angry at him is justified.

And so it goes.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

And your posting the same old, same old is just that ... old. Sorry to be harsh but you got yourself into this mess. Only you can get out of it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Other than childcare I don't see his useful qualities. 

He depends on you for leads/work. You are working your ass off and doing all the heavy lifting. Seems to me you can do that WITHOUT him and the draining vortex of need he's become.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, we had that talk last night about him getting a REAL job with security...and today he told me he just went in to talk to his current client (freelance) to see if he could get more freelance work. (Of course, this is to appease me so he doesn't have to get a real job). 

I don't feel like my words EVER sink in....


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

mega1 said:


> Well, we had that talk last night about him getting a REAL job with security...and today he told me he just went in to talk to his current client (freelance) to see if he could get more freelance work. (Of course, this is to appease me so he doesn't have to get a real job).
> *
> I don't feel like my words EVER sink in...*.


THEY DONT. So what are you going to do about it?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Well, we had that talk last night about him getting a REAL job with security...and today he told me he just went in to talk to his current client (freelance) to see if he could get more freelance work. (Of course, t*his is to appease me so he doesn't have to get a real job*).
> 
> I don't feel like my words EVER sink in....


He's just doing what works, and has worked with you. Can't fault him for that. If it ain't broke don't fix it.


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> What makes you think a judge would grant primary custody to your husband who doesn't earn a decent living?


I agree with most of the rest of the post, but the official stats are that the guy is a SAHD who also earns a relatively good income (around 40k from what I have read). So it seems to me he may have a good shot at custody.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'd split up and pay him support and do joint custody. You're already doing it but have to look at his sorry ass every day. Forget that. At least that way, you would get a peaceful home environment to go to every night.

The sight of him would annoy me to no end.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Well, we had that talk last night about him getting a REAL job with security...and today he told me he just went in to talk to his current client (freelance) to see if he could get more freelance work. (Of course, this is to appease me so he doesn't have to get a real job).
> 
> I don't feel like my words EVER sink in....


Your words don't sink in because there are no teeth to them. Stop petting this drama llama and actually do something to solve your problems. Unless there are no problems and you just like to post to get attention.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Boundaries won't work without consequences.

What are the consequences if he doesn't get a job?

Nothing and he knows it.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

'waiting' for better times is a recipe for disaster. You are spending 50% of your total net income on rent - simply because you are both taking the path of least resistance - and inexorably running at full speed into financial ruin. Its short sighted and fear driven.

bad choice. fix it. Now. Get your house in order - and when you have more means - then perhaps you can consider moving again. Could be years from now, right? So be it. At least you will be making decisions at that point about your lives and relationship and not thinking only of your wallet.

tick, tick, tick.

So now you total that nice car of yours. Everyone is fine, thankfully - but now you are on the hook to get something else - and suddenly someone needs orthodontic work that is going to cost a couple grand out of pocket. Week Vacation? Maybe just hang around the house this year.

not much wiggle room is there?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, I have an interesting update...

I have met my husband in the middle... I found a house that was about 2k cheaper than our current lease and another that's about 1k. I liked them both...honestly. But he wouldn't go for the cheapest...said it was too small and we'd need to pay storage...which I do admit to be true. So I met him in the middle in the other house... we applied and (hopefully) got the house that will save us about 1k a month. 

And...he seems to be pretty focused on helping save money. He is making calls and trying to get business... 

I can say he's trying... I hope it lasts!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

It's good that you have him working with you on this. It's a start. But it doesn't seem that you two are taking the whole "how do we keep this from happening again thing" very seriously. There's only 3 of you. How much space do you need? Maybe you could have looked at this as an opportunity to get rid of some extra stuff (paying for his work toys?) and saved the extra $1000. Especially since you said recently that your bankruptcy payments were changed to $1000 per month, no?

Do you two have a workable budget that you can realistically stick to, based on guaranteed income and not dipping into your retirement funds or depending on his unreliable income?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

There are reasons and there are results - and I only get paid for one of them.

It's perhaps a fairly unforgiving perspective but the accountability is there. 

It is good if you can work together on this. The actions of your behavior and the purpose of those actions need to align but how do you get there together? And what are the consequences if you don't? As despite the work-around solutions, the underlying behavior will otherwise remain the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, I totally agree with you....I am trying get him on the same page. He kept saying...I'm so excited we are going to be saving 20k over 2 years ...for taking this house. This is obviously good that he's motivated to that...I don't love the house, either...but it will be just fine for the 3 of us. My husband said my son cried when he saw which room would be his...because he thought it was so small. Of course, that broke my heart...

He is also toying with the idea still of getting a "day job" but he IS starting to drum up some freelance work... so I can see that he doesn't want to have a normal punch the clock kind of job. But this one...would be working 9-5 for the city. I mean...that's a decent job...even if he took it for a little while. My son started complaining tonight because he wants his daddy to stay home in afternoon with him.... I told him it would only be 2.5 hours in the afternoon...before his Dad got home. But, he's obviously going to feel the impact.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Mega, I am proud of you for taking these steps, seriously. Now keep it up. Your husband may show some improvement from the little kick in the butt you gave him, but be prepared for the day, whether it's a month from now or six months from now, when he suddenly thinks you guys should take a $10,000 vacation because you "earned it" by saving so much money on the house, or when he wants to bring in thousands of dollars worth of designer furniture, or whatever.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I'm back with an update and need for some support. 

I am truly frustrated. Things were going better with my husband...he had agreed to downsize on the house. However he was not very flexible when it came to the choices. We are still battling that. 

I have tried to keep a very glass half full attitude. He was beginning to market his business on his own. But he's slowed down. Then he was contacted about a city job that would put him at about 70k. Year. I had to push him to turn in his resume. He finally did. 

Well he's currently working 3 hours a day. No more than that. He just couldn't seem to get the resume done. Mind you I'm working 16-18 hours a day. Then today I cracked. I started to cry (I rarely do) and I told him that I'm so frustrated. That I work so hard and I can't keep up. I told him that I'm ashamed of being bankrupt. And exhausted.. Run ragged and fraying at the seams. I told him that I can't keep up at this pace. 

He watched me cry and then said well... A friend of mine told me that I might get an interview for that city job.. But "I hope you know how I feel.. I don't want to take it. Son is doing so well and I want to stay working on my business". 

I could not believe that he would have the nerve to say that when I am at my breaking point. 

I told him that his business is great IF we had a cushion but we don't. He didn't say anything. I have a very strong feeling he will sabotage the job so he won't have to take it. 

My own company had called him about a job but he waited over a week to even apply. And "I" had to turn in his resume for him. 

I just don't know how to deal with this. Even if I order him to take a job. I still remain angry that he can't hug me and say its going to be okay and I'll make sure of it. 

What is our 7 yr old learning?!! 




John Lee said:


> Mega, I am proud of you for taking these steps, seriously. Now keep it up. Your husband may show some improvement from the little kick in the butt you gave him, but be prepared for the day, whether it's a month from now or six months from now, when he suddenly thinks you guys should take a $10,000 vacation because you "earned it" by saving so much money on the house, or when he wants to bring in thousands of dollars worth of designer furniture, or whatever.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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