# Physical Attractiveness- Vital?



## poida

Hi Guys,
This is a question for guys ONLY. No female comments please - you simply won't get it.

Before you judge, some background info about me;
- Intensely mothered child
- Father mostly distant and emotionally cold
- Very late developer
- Few girlfriends
- Mother/father separation at age 16
- Have never really bonded with mum again
- Few girlfriends and never really fell in love
- Instant love with GF 15 years ago.
- Married at 21 after 1.5 years together.
- Caught wife cheating 10 months ago
- Separated after 1 month
- After lots of counselling I realised I always sought attention from women and always sought their approval
- Also realised very reliant on my wife emotionally
- Also realised my love for her was very fantasy based
- Wife always unable to tell me how she felt or what she wanted in our relationship.
- Wife didn't have a dad at home and also relied on me as father figure. 
- Realised that I was depressed in our marriage because my emotional needs were not being met.
- Realised my depression meant my wife no longer saw me as a strong leader and father figure. So she decided to seek a stronger figure. Cheated.
- Realised that I have never really had a strong emotional connection with a woman up to now.
- Realised that a lot of my fantasy based emotions were strongly based on physical appearance as a result.
- Realised that I judge people a lot on physical appearance.
- We are about to divorce (Australia)
- I have dated 5-6 women after 3-4 months of separation
- Met current GF 4 months ago
- Divided assets last month.
- Moved into my own house 1 month ago.
- Still getting over the cheating, separation and divorce, but getting there fairly quickly.

About my GF and me;
- When I met my current GF, we had an instant spark. We have great chemistry stronger than in my marriage. 

- Truly great sex, awesome kissing and a very open and honest relationship. She is a truly kind, honest, loyal, caring, sexual, loving woman.

- She is 32, has a good job, has her own flat, hasn't been married, wants 5 kids and is ready to settle down.

- She is 5'9", size 10/12, C cups, fairly tapered waist, slightly pear shaped hips, reasonably large butt, but of a tummy, lots of freckles. Maybe a 6-7.

- Her face is well proportioned, freckly, nice nose, big brown round eyes, nice ears. Prominent forehead and little bit of a saggy under chin. Say a 6-7.

- For reference, I'm 6'0", around 82kg. Probably a 7, would probably be a 8.5 if I didn't have receding hairline.

Don't judge yet. Just trying to give accurate info.

I have had times where I have felt love for her (and said so), and other times when I'm not feeling it. Generally though I'm just a bit worried about not being attracted to her in the future whilst being fully aware that I am not yet ready to immerse myself in those feelings right now.

I really enjoy being with her and I think she is great. I would really like to look at her face and body and just feel that "wow, she is stunning" feeling, but right now it isn't there. I just look at her with fondness and accept what I see.

Above all, I don't want to hurt this woman and I don't want to waste her time. I am trying to figure out;
- if physical attractiveness will become irrelevant to me in time, 
- or if it will always be there, playing on my mind, 
- or even if I am likely to begin to find her attractive if/when I fall for her more, 
- or even if physical attractiveness will prevent me from falling for her fully.

SO HERE IS THE QUESTION;

Can a long term relationship (and marriage) be sustained when you initially might not consider your partner the most attractive person?

Or to put it bluntly, is it possible to love and marry a woman we might not find particularly attractive and not think we are missing out on anything?

Don't bother with the "dude, break up with her" comments. I am looking for feedback from men who have married the woman they didn't think was really attractive at the start.

Have at it.


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## Nucking Futs

poida said:


> Hi Guys,
> This is a question for guys ONLY. No female comments please - you simply won't get it.
> 
> Before you judge, some background info about me;
> - Intensely mothered child
> - Father mostly distant and emotionally cold
> - Very late developer
> - Few girlfriends
> - Mother/father separation at age 16
> - Have never really bonded with mum again
> - Few girlfriends and never really fell in love
> - Instant love with GF 15 years ago.
> - Married at 21 after 1.5 years together.
> - Caught wife cheating 10 months ago
> - Separated after 1 month
> - After lots of counselling I realised I always sought attention from women and always sought their approval
> - Also realised very reliant on my wife emotionally
> - Also realised my love for her was very fantasy based
> - Wife always unable to tell me how she felt or what she wanted in our relationship.
> - Wife didn't have a dad at home and also relied on me as father figure.
> - Realised that I was depressed in our marriage because my emotional needs were not being met.
> - Realised my depression meant my wife no longer saw me as a strong leader and father figure. So she decided to seek a stronger figure. Cheated.
> - Realised that I have never really had a strong emotional connection with a woman up to now.
> - Realised that a lot of my fantasy based emotions were strongly based on physical appearance as a result.
> - Realised that I judge people a lot on physical appearance.
> - We are about to divorce (Australia)
> - I have dated 5-6 women after 3-4 months of separation
> - Met current GF 4 months ago
> - Divided assets last month.
> - Moved into my own house 1 month ago.
> - Still getting over the cheating, separation and divorce, but getting there fairly quickly.
> 
> About my GF and me;
> - When I met my current GF, we had an instant spark. We have great chemistry stronger than in my marriage.
> 
> - Truly great sex, awesome kissing and a very open and honest relationship. She is a truly kind, honest, loyal, caring, sexual, loving woman.
> 
> - She is 32, has a good job, has her own flat, hasn't been married, wants 5 kids and is ready to settle down.
> 
> - She is 5'9", size 10/12, C cups, fairly tapered waist, slightly pear shaped hips, reasonably large butt, but of a tummy, lots of freckles. Maybe a 6-7.
> 
> - Her face is well proportioned, freckly, nice nose, big brown round eyes, nice ears. Prominent forehead and little bit of a saggy under chin. Say a 6-7.
> 
> - For reference, I'm 6'0", around 82kg. Probably a 7, would probably be a 8.5 if I didn't have receding hairline.
> 
> Don't judge yet. Just trying to give accurate info.
> 
> I have had times where I have felt love for her (and said so), and other times when I'm not feeling it. Generally though I'm just a bit worried about not being attracted to her in the future whilst being fully aware that I am not yet ready to immerse myself in those feelings right now.
> 
> I really enjoy being with her and I think she is great. I would really like to look at her face and body and just feel that "wow, she is stunning" feeling, but right now it isn't there. I just look at her with fondness and accept what I see.
> 
> Above all, I don't want to hurt this woman and I don't want to waste her time. I am trying to figure out;
> - if physical attractiveness will become irrelevant to me in time,
> - or if it will always be there, playing on my mind,
> - or even if I am likely to begin to find her attractive if/when I fall for her more,
> - or even if physical attractiveness will prevent me from falling for her fully.
> 
> SO HERE IS THE QUESTION;
> 
> Can a long term relationship (and marriage) be sustained when you initially might not consider your partner the most attractive person?
> 
> Or to put it bluntly, is it possible to love and marry a woman we might not find particularly attractive and not think we are missing out on anything?
> 
> Don't bother with the "dude, break up with her" comments. I am looking for feedback from men who have married the woman they didn't think was really attractive at the start.
> 
> Have at it.


Looks fade. Your looks are going to fade, so will the looks of any woman you get with. Most 9's and 10's will not be 9's and 10's for most of their lives, so if you're going to grow old with someone it better be based on something other than looks.


----------



## sparkyjim

Okay, I will. 

Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Glover.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

poida said:


> Hi Guys,
> This is a question for guys ONLY. No female comments please - you simply won't get it.
> 
> Before you judge, some background info about me;
> - Intensely mothered child
> - Father mostly distant and emotionally cold
> - Very late developer
> - Few girlfriends
> - Mother/father separation at age 16
> - Have never really bonded with mum again
> - Few girlfriends and never really fell in love
> - Instant love with GF 15 years ago.
> - Married at 21 after 1.5 years together.
> - Caught wife cheating 10 months ago
> - Separated after 1 month
> - After lots of counselling I realised I always sought attention from women and always sought their approval
> - Also realised very reliant on my wife emotionally
> - Also realised my love for her was very fantasy based
> - Wife always unable to tell me how she felt or what she wanted in our relationship.
> - Wife didn't have a dad at home and also relied on me as father figure.
> - Realised that I was depressed in our marriage because my emotional needs were not being met.
> - Realised my depression meant my wife no longer saw me as a strong leader and father figure. So she decided to seek a stronger figure. Cheated.
> - Realised that I have never really had a strong emotional connection with a woman up to now.
> - Realised that a lot of my fantasy based emotions were strongly based on physical appearance as a result.
> - Realised that I judge people a lot on physical appearance.
> - We are about to divorce (Australia)
> - I have dated 5-6 women after 3-4 months of separation
> - Met current GF 4 months ago
> - Divided assets last month.
> - Moved into my own house 1 month ago.
> - Still getting over the cheating, separation and divorce, but getting there fairly quickly.
> 
> About my GF and me;
> - When I met my current GF, we had an instant spark. We have great chemistry stronger than in my marriage.
> 
> - Truly great sex, awesome kissing and a very open and honest relationship. She is a truly kind, honest, loyal, caring, sexual, loving woman.
> 
> - She is 32, has a good job, has her own flat, hasn't been married, wants 5 kids and is ready to settle down.
> 
> - She is 5'9", size 10/12, C cups, fairly tapered waist, slightly pear shaped hips, reasonably large butt, but of a tummy, lots of freckles. Maybe a 6-7.
> 
> - Her face is well proportioned, freckly, nice nose, big brown round eyes, nice ears. Prominent forehead and little bit of a saggy under chin. Say a 6-7.
> 
> - For reference, I'm 6'0", around 82kg. Probably a 7, would probably be a 8.5 if I didn't have receding hairline.
> 
> Don't judge yet. Just trying to give accurate info.
> 
> I have had times where I have felt love for her (and said so), and other times when I'm not feeling it. Generally though I'm just a bit worried about not being attracted to her in the future whilst being fully aware that I am not yet ready to immerse myself in those feelings right now.
> 
> I really enjoy being with her and I think she is great. I would really like to look at her face and body and just feel that "wow, she is stunning" feeling, but right now it isn't there. I just look at her with fondness and accept what I see.
> 
> Above all, I don't want to hurt this woman and I don't want to waste her time. I am trying to figure out;
> - if physical attractiveness will become irrelevant to me in time,
> - or if it will always be there, playing on my mind,
> - or even if I am likely to begin to find her attractive if/when I fall for her more,
> - or even if physical attractiveness will prevent me from falling for her fully.
> 
> SO HERE IS THE QUESTION;
> 
> Can a long term relationship (and marriage) be sustained when you initially might not consider your partner the most attractive person?
> 
> Or to put it bluntly, is it possible to love and marry a woman we might not find particularly attractive and not think we are missing out on anything?
> 
> Don't bother with the "dude, break up with her" comments. I am looking for feedback from men who have married the woman they didn't think was really attractive at the start.
> 
> Have at it.


Is there anything about her that you see that she can be more physically attractive? Maybe you can coax her in that direction.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening poida
I've found that for me physical and emotional attachment are very closely tied together. If I like someone, if they are friendly and the smile when I am around, they almost always seem attractive. 

I've been with my wife for 30 years - and I still find her beautiful and desirable.


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## Jasel

I'm only 30 and have never been married. I'd say physical attractiveness is very overrated and volatile. And I'm saying this for men. 

There have been women when I first met them, I wouldn't look at them twice because either 1) I didn't find them attractive or 2) They weren't my "type". Yet after getting to know them I found them and their features VERY attractive because their personalities were very appealing and then I started seeing them physically in a different light. 

On the flip side I've known women I was instantly attracted to purely based on their physical appearance or because they were my "type", yet after getting to know them and their personalities you couldn't pay me to be involved with them on any level.

At this point in my life I care much more about how a woman makes me feel and how I feel around her than I care about her physical appearance . That's not to say that physical attraction doesn't matter, but I think it's very overrated among men.

There are always going to be beautiful or attractive women out there who draw your eye. There are always going to be "what ifs". Personally I don't think you should marry a woman you don't find attractive regardless of the reason. But if you do marry a woman you should try to focus on what makes her attractive, not just physically but, emotionally for yourself.

If you can't do either you might have a problem.


----------



## bravenewworld

Looks are so subjective. One person's 2 is another person's 8. I noticed you rated yourself higher, but with all due respect, most people think they are more attractive than they actually are. 

I would guess you and her are more evenly matched looks-wise than you think. It's fairly rare I see a totally mismatched couple, unless it's an obvious golddigger/gigolo/Russian bride situation. 

The details of what she looks like aren't very relevant. Some guys would give any girl with C cups who wasn't morbidly obese a 10 rating while some guys would give Cindy Crawford a 2 for disproportionate toe length. 

Do you generally use your mate as a barometer for your own social status or to be perceived a certain way?


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## murphy5

Woah.....slow down there Tex.

You met her 3 months ago and are talking to her about having 5 kids????

Uhh...are you serious? 

You need to DATE HER ONLY, no moving in with her, for a good year and a half to really see if you two love each other. You DO SEE THIS, RIGHT? That you just broke up and CAN NOT TRUST your own emotions yet???

Her physical attributes really do not make that much differenc IF you love her. The point is, you DO NOT KNOW if you love her yet.

So, tell her you need to take the relationship slow at this point. DO NOT MOVE IN, do not marry her. Instead date her, really get to KNOW HER personality, how you treat each other, what things you have in common.

Too bad you are divorcing your ex wife so soon. You could have used her as a throw-away girl to practice having a normal relationship. i.e. try various things out in the relationship, see which worked, figure out yourself, and THEN divorced the cheating biyatch.

GO SLOW!


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## MaritimeGuy

I believe when you really love someone you see them through rose coloured glasses as they say. So the fact you're seeing 'flaws' now tells me you're not feeling it 100%. 

I strongheartedly agree with slowing things way down. Don't put any expectations on the relationship and to be fair to her let her know that is what you are doing. Have fun with no expectation of a particular outcome. 

You're still healing. You may find over time she grows on you and becomes more attractive to you or you may find you start to grow apart. Only time will tell.


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## Married but Happy

IMO, the attraction has to exist initially. Sometimes, though, you may come to love someone over time even without good initial attraction, but that's very risky. It does happen with arranged marriages, for example, but the initial mindset and expectations are different and ingrained.

If you are attracted early on, you can form a loving bond that will last even if physical attraction fades. However, without that early attraction, often the bond never forms, and resentment or distaste will exist instead - and that bodes ill for a lasting relationship.


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## Convection

Jasel said:


> I'm only 30 and have never been married. I'd say physical attractiveness is very overrated and volatile. And I'm saying this for men.
> 
> There have been women when I first met them, I wouldn't look at them twice because either 1) I didn't find them attractive or 2) They weren't my "type". *Yet after getting to know them I found them and their features VERY attractive because their personalities were very appealing and then I started seeing them physically in a different light*.
> 
> On the flip side I've known women I was instantly attracted to purely based on their physical appearance or because they were my "type", *yet after getting to know them and their personalities you couldn't pay me to be involved with them on any level.*
> 
> At this point in my life I care much more about how a woman makes me feel and how I feel around her than I care about her physical appearance . That's not to say that physical attraction doesn't matter, but I think it's very overrated among men.
> 
> There are always going to be beautiful or attractive women out there who draw your eye. There are always going to be "what ifs". Personally I don't think you should marry a woman you don't find attractive regardless of the reason. *But if you do marry a woman you should try to focus on what makes her attractive, not just physically but, emotionally for yourself.*
> 
> If you can't do either you might have a problem.


Hard truth for me too, especially the bolded.

OP, it is possible that the more emotionally enmeshed you get with your girl, the more you'll be physically attracted. My concern would be a lack of any connection between you. You can stoke a spark to a full-fledged fire but without something to grow on, the fireplace stays cold, even if all the conditions are right to burn.

If all you see is fondness and sisterly-love (you like being around her, you do nice things but not romantic things, etc.) but you don't have any real chemistry, then it may never exist.

As Jasel said, if you had any kind of magnetism going on, she'd probably be physically attractive to you just fine. It reads like you don't.


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## always_alone

Looks to me like a rebound relationship, where she looks after your needs while you look for someone better.

Great deal for you; not so much for her.


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## Shoto1984

I'm in a similar position, recently divorced and dating again. Its great that you have been able to do so much work on yourself. That's so important and will pay dividends if you keep the knowledge close and use it as a reference to check yourself in this and future relationships. 

A. You probably know this on an intellectual level, but you are not yourself (or who you will be) and are going through a transition period that will probably last a year or more. 

B. As stated by others, it sounds like you're moving too fast with this relationship. Love? Really? Careful. 

C. I'm guessing you're not ready for a serious committed relationship yet and your "is she enough" question is part of that. She's not coming out of a marriage and divorce (and all the drama) so you're in different places emotionally. 

D. To your question... You like her. You have love-like feelings for her sometimes. The sex is great so mr happy is happy. It sounds like she treats you well. Is it really your feelings about her appearance or are you thinking about other people's feelings about her appearance? ie "My friends won't be impressed when I show up with her" 

To be fair to her, there needs to be a talk where you both discuss the need to be careful and go slow. If, with full awareness, she is willing to invest her time with you then fine. In a year, if you're both happy to be together, you miss each other when apart and the sex is still hot why would you walk away from that? If she can cook too you're set


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## Faithful Wife

*No female comments please - you simply won't get it.*


:lol::lol::lol: :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## treyvion

Shoto1984 said:


> I'm in a similar position, recently divorced and dating again. Its great that you have been able to do so much work on yourself. That's so important and will pay dividends if you keep the knowledge close and use it as a reference to check yourself in this and future relationships.
> 
> A. You probably know this on an intellectual level, but you are not yourself (or who you will be) and are going through a transition period that will probably last a year or more.
> 
> B. As stated by others, it sounds like you're moving too fast with this relationship. Love? Really? Careful.
> 
> C. I'm guessing you're not ready for a serious committed relationship yet and your "is she enough" question is part of that. She's not coming out of a marriage and divorce (and all the drama) so you're in different places emotionally.
> 
> D. To your question... You like her. You have love-like feelings for her sometimes. The sex is great so mr happy is happy. It sounds like she treats you well. Is it really your feelings about her appearance or are you thinking about other people's feelings about her appearance? ie "My friends won't be impressed when I show up with her"
> 
> To be fair to her, there needs to be a talk where you both discuss the need to be careful and go slow. If, with full awareness, she is willing to invest her time with you then fine. In a year, if you're both happy to be together, you miss each other when apart and the sex is still hot why would you walk away from that? If she can cook too you're set


It's really empowering when you don't care what your friends think. You shouldn't live your life according to their opinions.


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## treyvion

always_alone said:


> Looks to me like a rebound relationship, where she looks after your needs while you look for someone better.
> 
> Great deal for you; not so much for her.


You could enjoy your time with her while you straighten out your life. Also you could coax her to improve things about herself too.

It's nothing with it. If you are actively looking for others, perhaps you should drop her and stop wasting her time, it doesn't feel good "what you don't know can hurtt you"


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## Fozzy

bravenewworld said:


> The details of what she looks like aren't very relevant. Some guys would give any girl with C cups who wasn't morbidly obese a 10 rating while some guys would give Cindy Crawford a 2 for disproportionate toe length.


I lol'd


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## Anon Pink

I think you should stay away from relationships until you have more confidence in what you want and aren't letting anxiety make decisions for you.


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## OhGeesh

I don't believe in psycho mumbo jumbo it's all a choice period!! Unless you truly have chemical problems in your brain.

Yes, physical attraction is key for me! Love makes up for it, but I do wonder what it will be like in our 60's and worry.


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## RandomDude

poida said:


> Hi Guys,
> This is a question for guys ONLY. No female comments please - you simply won't get it.


Heh, they might surprise you...



> SO HERE IS THE QUESTION;
> 
> Can a long term relationship (and marriage) be sustained when you initially might not consider your partner the most attractive person?
> 
> Or to put it bluntly, is it possible to love and marry a woman we might not find particularly attractive and not think we are missing out on anything?


When you're in love with a woman she's the most beautiful woman in the world. I would have thought one would already know this after years of marriage.


----------



## Forest

OhGeesh said:


> I don't believe in psycho mumbo jumbo it's all a choice period!! Unless you truly have chemical problems in your brain.
> 
> Yes, physical attraction is key for me! Love makes up for it, but I do wonder what it will be like in our 60's and worry.


Thank you for getting the honesty rolling.


Yes, shallow or not, attractiveness is an vital factor. There's got to be something there that draws you in.


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## Shoto1984

poida said:


> About my GF and me;
> - When I met my current GF, we had an instant spark. We have great chemistry stronger than in my marriage.
> 
> - Truly great sex, awesome kissing and a very open and honest relationship. She is a truly kind, honest, loyal, caring, sexual, loving woman.
> 
> *Then you say...*
> 
> I really enjoy being with her and I think she is great. I would really like to look at her face and body and just feel that "wow, she is stunning" feeling,* but right now it isn't there*. I just look at her with fondness and accept what I see.


So has something changed in 4 months? 

Did you want it till you got it and now its not so attractive?

We recently divorced types are dangerous to the rest of the dating population  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


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## poida

sparkyjim said:


> Okay, I will.
> 
> Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Glover.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


3 times already. I want opinions from men who have worked through similar situations, not a HOW TO.


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## poida

treyvion said:


> Is there anything about her that you see that she can be more physically attractive? Maybe you can coax her in that direction.


Good idea, and I have been.

We went bikini shopping on Sunday and I got her into a black one with small triangles that push up her very good and ample assets, and a nicely shaped bottom that fits her nicely and gives her some comfort.

Have been encouraging low cut tops and tighter waisted clothing as she has nice waist and breasts.

I'm getting there, and yes it is having an affect on me.

Something has changed over the weekend. It's like my anxiety about my divorce and her attractiveness are directly tied. I was calm and I think I'm starting to fall for her!!


----------



## poida

Jasel said:


> I'm only 30 and have never been married. I'd say physical attractiveness is very overrated and volatile. And I'm saying this for men.
> 
> There have been women when I first met them, I wouldn't look at them twice because either 1) I didn't find them attractive or 2) They weren't my "type". Yet after getting to know them I found them and their features VERY attractive because their personalities were very appealing and then I started seeing them physically in a different light.
> 
> On the flip side I've known women I was instantly attracted to purely based on their physical appearance or because they were my "type", yet after getting to know them and their personalities you couldn't pay me to be involved with them on any level.
> 
> At this point in my life I care much more about how a woman makes me feel and how I feel around her than I care about her physical appearance . That's not to say that physical attraction doesn't matter, but I think it's very overrated among men.
> 
> There are always going to be beautiful or attractive women out there who draw your eye. There are always going to be "what ifs". Personally I don't think you should marry a woman you don't find attractive regardless of the reason. But if you do marry a woman you should try to focus on what makes her attractive, not just physically but, emotionally for yourself.
> 
> If you can't do either you might have a problem.


Thanks Jasel. Totally agree. As I said in an earlier post... something has started to happen over the weekend. She is starting to transform for me. Her eyes now sparkle, her face is glowing, her waist, her breasts and the way she moves, very sexy. 
As with most women, her butt is bigger than she wants and has some cellulite, but you know what, it is completely fading in importance compared to how I feel about her now.

I have gone from not sure to, thinking, I really could very easily live out my days with this woman. Such a great person and a wonderful personality.


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## poida

murphy5 said:


> Woah.....slow down there Tex.
> 
> You met her 3 months ago and are talking to her about having 5 kids????
> 
> Uhh...are you serious?
> 
> You need to DATE HER ONLY, no moving in with her, for a good year and a half to really see if you two love each other. You DO SEE THIS, RIGHT? That you just broke up and CAN NOT TRUST your own emotions yet???
> 
> Her physical attributes really do not make that much differenc IF you love her. The point is, you DO NOT KNOW if you love her yet.
> 
> So, tell her you need to take the relationship slow at this point. DO NOT MOVE IN, do not marry her. Instead date her, really get to KNOW HER personality, how you treat each other, what things you have in common.
> 
> Too bad you are divorcing your ex wife so soon. You could have used her as a throw-away girl to practice having a normal relationship. i.e. try various things out in the relationship, see which worked, figure out yourself, and THEN divorced the cheating biyatch.
> 
> GO SLOW!


Thanks Murph,
No worries. We are going slow and there have been some loose rules put in place to ensure that. We only see each other 3 nights a week and I always let her know that I'm still working through stuff, that I don't know how I'll feel next week and anything could happen including a breakup. 

I am going away overseas for a month next week and we both agree it will be good to spend time apart.

The 5 kids thing was just general conversation, me taking the piss out of people who have lots of kids, and her with an offended look and statement, what's wrong with that!!.. that's all.

I am fully aware that I'm still working through a lot and yes, my feelings literally change each week.

BUT I care a lot for this woman, she knows where I stand, and we are just moving it forward slowly.

Thanks again.


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## poida

Convection said:


> Hard truth for me too, especially the bolded.
> 
> OP, it is possible that the more emotionally enmeshed you get with your girl, the more you'll be physically attracted. My concern would be a lack of any connection between you. You can stoke a spark to a full-fledged fire but without something to grow on, the fireplace stays cold, even if all the conditions are right to burn.
> 
> If all you see is fondness and sisterly-love (you like being around her, you do nice things but not romantic things, etc.) but you don't have any real chemistry, then it may never exist.
> 
> As Jasel said, if you had any kind of magnetism going on, she'd probably be physically attractive to you just fine. It reads like you don't.


Epic chemistry and sparks were always there from the first moment we met. 

I thought we waited longer but we spoke about it on the weekend and it turns out we just jumped each other after the third date.

I'm starting to realise that my superficial physical critique appears to be my heads way of talking myself out of being hurt again.

Prior to the weekend I wasn't feeling it, but I was quite calm about my life and my divorce in general on Friday and something happened.
Quite amazing what the brain can block when it is stressed or emotionally hurt. 
I have a taste of something now I'm not willing to let go.


----------



## poida

always_alone said:


> Looks to me like a rebound relationship, where she looks after your needs while you look for someone better.
> 
> Great deal for you; not so much for her.


I agree. There is no denying it.

But as above, something has changed. I'm feelin it now.


----------



## poida

Shoto1984 said:


> I'm in a similar position, recently divorced and dating again. Its great that you have been able to do so much work on yourself. That's so important and will pay dividends if you keep the knowledge close and use it as a reference to check yourself in this and future relationships.
> 
> A. You probably know this on an intellectual level, but you are not yourself (or who you will be) and are going through a transition period that will probably last a year or more.
> 
> B. As stated by others, it sounds like you're moving too fast with this relationship. Love? Really? Careful.
> 
> C. I'm guessing you're not ready for a serious committed relationship yet and your "is she enough" question is part of that. She's not coming out of a marriage and divorce (and all the drama) so you're in different places emotionally.
> 
> D. To your question... You like her. You have love-like feelings for her sometimes. The sex is great so mr happy is happy. It sounds like she treats you well. Is it really your feelings about her appearance or are you thinking about other people's feelings about her appearance? ie "My friends won't be impressed when I show up with her"
> 
> To be fair to her, there needs to be a talk where you both discuss the need to be careful and go slow. If, with full awareness, she is willing to invest her time with you then fine. In a year, if you're both happy to be together, you miss each other when apart and the sex is still hot why would you walk away from that? If she can cook too you're set


A), Yes I have done a LOT of work on myself and realise so much more about me than I could ever have imagined. That will continue but I feel like my journey of discovery is slowing and I'm settling into my new life.

B) I think you are right. We talk about this and we always agree we need to take it slow. We say that, have a day or two apart and then just bloody jump each other. he he

C) All true. I'm actually not afraid of a relationship at all, but my subconscious is saying "hold on there buddy, you got hurt last time". I'm just taking it easy.

D) Not a factor. I have never felt that. In fact I'm quite proud to introduce such a wonderful person to my mates. I think part of me knows better. and this whole physical thing is just my head's way of slowing me down.

One thing I am proud of and is the most amazing part of us as a couple is that we are VERY open, honest and completely transparent emotionally. Some people have warned me about this but I wouldn't have it any other way. Obviously I'm careful about sensitive issues and deal with those tactfully.

Thanks for your comments.


----------



## poida

Shoto1984 said:


> I'm in a similar position, recently divorced and dating again. Its great that you have been able to do so much work on yourself. That's so important and will pay dividends if you keep the knowledge close and use it as a reference to check yourself in this and future relationships.
> 
> A. You probably know this on an intellectual level, but you are not yourself (or who you will be) and are going through a transition period that will probably last a year or more.
> 
> B. As stated by others, it sounds like you're moving too fast with this relationship. Love? Really? Careful.
> 
> C. I'm guessing you're not ready for a serious committed relationship yet and your "is she enough" question is part of that. She's not coming out of a marriage and divorce (and all the drama) so you're in different places emotionally.
> 
> D. To your question... You like her. You have love-like feelings for her sometimes. The sex is great so mr happy is happy. It sounds like she treats you well. Is it really your feelings about her appearance or are you thinking about other people's feelings about her appearance? ie "My friends won't be impressed when I show up with her"
> 
> To be fair to her, there needs to be a talk where you both discuss the need to be careful and go slow. If, with full awareness, she is willing to invest her time with you then fine. In a year, if you're both happy to be together, you miss each other when apart and the sex is still hot why would you walk away from that? If she can cook too you're set


Oh yeah, and she is an awesome cook!!!!!!!! Roast duck last night.


----------



## poida

OhGeesh said:


> I don't believe in psycho mumbo jumbo it's all a choice period!! Unless you truly have chemical problems in your brain.
> 
> Yes, physical attraction is key for me! Love makes up for it, but I do wonder what it will be like in our 60's and worry.


Thanks for your honest thoughts.


----------



## poida

RandomDude said:


> Heh, they might surprise you...
> 
> 
> 
> When you're in love with a woman she's the most beautiful woman in the world. I would have thought one would already know this after years of marriage.


Ah, but here is the difference, and is the most astounding thing I have learned in counselling. And this is important for all of you.

A lot of relationships where the man considers his woman to be the most beautiful woman in the world are heavily fantasy based.

In my case, this fantasy was strengthened over many years when my emotional (communication) needs were not met. I simply put her on a pedestal worshipped her.

That is an unhealthy love, but there it was, she was "my angel" and look what happened. Total failure.

So, I am now VERY sceptical of how healthy that feeling is in a relationship and I'm looking to find a lot more substance and emotional connection in my relationship.


----------



## poida

Shoto1984 said:


> So has something changed in 4 months?
> 
> Did you want it till you got it and now its not so attractive?
> 
> We recently divorced types are dangerous to the rest of the dating population  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


Agreed.

My counsellor and I have come back full circle now I am ready and started to analyse my marriage etc.

Obviously that digs a lot of raw feelings up and after the weekend I realised that I was very closed and emotionally defensive over the last month or so.

I think I'm over the hill now.

She is aware of the risks. I tell all this stuff and she is sticking with it.

She isn't desperate, but we are great together and we both agree it is worth the risk.


----------



## poida

Ok, that should be everyone...
Thanks again guys. Appreciated.


----------



## DoF

OP, first thing is first. YOU NEED TIME TO HEAL after your divorce and be ready to date BEFORE you date.

You are currently on a rebound.

Give it 6 months to a YEAR before you even THINK about dating.

As far as appearance issue you have. If you are attracted to her (which you clearly are), that's really all that there is needed.

Rest (which is the important part) is really THE PERSON/WHO THEY ARE.....not the looks. 

You are confused because you didn't take time to heal proper. I suggest you have enough respect for yourself AND your girl and let her go for time being until you are ready.

Right now your mind is clouded and you are not thinking clearly.......


----------



## poida

DoF said:


> OP, first thing is first. YOU NEED TIME TO HEAL after your divorce and be ready to date BEFORE you date.
> 
> You are currently on a rebound.
> 
> Give it 6 months to a YEAR before you even THINK about dating.
> 
> As far as appearance issue you have. If you are attracted to her (which you clearly are), that's really all that there is needed.
> 
> Rest (which is the important part) is really THE PERSON/WHO THEY ARE.....not the looks.
> 
> You are confused because you didn't take time to heal proper. I suggest you have enough respect for yourself AND your girl and let her go for time being until you are ready.
> 
> Right now your mind is clouded and you are not thinking clearly.......


Thank you DoF for your thoughts.

I have thought about this a lot. I can definitely appreciate that opinion, and I think there is definitely a time where a man who is post separation simply cannot think clearly, open up or even begin to heal.

What you should know is that I have been working hard on counselling, therapy and time by myself for 10 months now. 
I have made a hell of a lot of progress.
I have been through a lot and been back through the same stuff over and over.
I have analysed my personality, my childhood, my parents, my girlfriends, my wife, my marriage, my friends and my job in great detail, and how it all links together. 
I have dealt with sexual anxiety, sexual dis-function and general depression relating to these.
I have sold all our assets, moved house and filed for divorce.
I recognise the journey this has been and the trauma of it all.

But you know what - I have worked f*cking hard at all this and I am now in a really good place in my life.

I read your comment last night and went home really depressed, thinking that you might be right. I have been thinking about it since then, and you know what, life goes on. 

There comes a time where you have worked and worked on healing, given yourself time and space to get back to normal, and then you simply have to get back on the horse.

My girlfriend is a wonderful woman and nobody is going to tell me that I can't see her. 

hmmmm.........I guess I just answered my own question.


----------



## DoF

poida said:


> Thank you DoF for your thoughts.
> 
> I have thought about this a lot. I can definitely appreciate that opinion, and I think there is definitely a time where a man who is post separation simply cannot think clearly, open up or even begin to heal.
> 
> What you should know is that I have been working hard on counselling, therapy and time by myself for 10 months now.
> I have made a hell of a lot of progress.
> I have been through a lot and been back through the same stuff over and over.
> I have analysed my personality, my childhood, my parents, my girlfriends, my wife, my marriage, my friends and my job in great detail, and how it all links together.
> I have dealt with sexual anxiety, sexual dis-function and general depression relating to these.
> I have sold all our assets, moved house and filed for divorce.
> I recognise the journey this has been and the trauma of it all.
> 
> But you know what - I have worked f*cking hard at all this and I am now in a really good place in my life.
> 
> I read your comment last night and went home really depressed, thinking that you might be right. I have been thinking about it since then, and you know what, life goes on.
> 
> There comes a time where you have worked and worked on healing, given yourself time and space to get back to normal, and then you simply have to get back on the horse.
> 
> My girlfriend is a wonderful woman and nobody is going to tell me that I can't see her.
> 
> hmmmm.........I guess I just answered my own question.


That's all fine and congrats.

But assuming you do need more time (this is something only YOU can answer)......leaving her would be good for you AND her.

You can also make it a test for her to see what kind of person you are dealing with.

If your girl was to come to you and say "honey, I've made a mistake, I was not completely healed after my other relationship and I need more time before I get involved with anyone else. I would like to put our relationship on hold until that time if you don't mind and you will be the first person I contact when I'm ready".

Most people would respect that and even be thankful for honesty etc.

And SOME, will get upset, offended and react in anger etc.

The 1st kind is the one you want......not the 2nd.



Going back to your original question. Looks are important, but if there is attraction....that's really the only wall to overcome.

The whole league thing and 1-10 rating system is stupid. Ignore it. Your 6 can be someone elses 10 and other way around.

It's what YOU like. And YES there will ALWAYS be someone better looking....and YES, human nature is to ALWAYS want things we can't have.

You said you have learned to recognize EVERYONE around you. 

BEFORE you recognize and evaluate people around you, I would highly recommend paying CLOSE attention to YOURSELF. Our brains play tricks on us and head us in all kinds of direction. 

Catch yourself, recognized yourself and deal with your brain as much as possible. The more I pay attention to myself, the more I can see myself from "other people's shoes".

TO ME, recognizing yourself is 10x more important than recognizing EVERYONE around you. But both are crucial!

Good luck


----------



## Personal

Physical Attractiveness- Vital?

It certainly helps!


----------



## poida

DoF said:


> That's all fine and congrats.
> 
> But assuming you do need more time (this is something only YOU can answer)......leaving her would be good for you AND her.
> 
> You can also make it a test for her to see what kind of person you are dealing with.
> 
> If your girl was to come to you and say "honey, I've made a mistake, I was not completely healed after my other relationship and I need more time before I get involved with anyone else. I would like to put our relationship on hold until that time if you don't mind and you will be the first person I contact when I'm ready".
> 
> Most people would respect that and even be thankful for honesty etc.
> 
> And SOME, will get upset, offended and react in anger etc.
> 
> The 1st kind is the one you want......not the 2nd.
> 
> 
> 
> Going back to your original question. Looks are important, but if there is attraction....that's really the only wall to overcome.
> 
> The whole league thing and 1-10 rating system is stupid. Ignore it. Your 6 can be someone elses 10 and other way around.
> 
> It's what YOU like. And YES there will ALWAYS be someone better looking....and YES, human nature is to ALWAYS want things we can't have.
> 
> You said you have learned to recognize EVERYONE around you.
> 
> BEFORE you recognize and evaluate people around you, I would highly recommend paying CLOSE attention to YOURSELF. Our brains play tricks on us and head us in all kinds of direction.
> 
> Catch yourself, recognized yourself and deal with your brain as much as possible. The more I pay attention to myself, the more I can see myself from "other people's shoes".
> 
> TO ME, recognizing yourself is 10x more important than recognizing EVERYONE around you. But both are crucial!
> 
> Good luck


I am away overseas on business for a month starting next week. We are using that as a break. I think it will be good for us.


----------



## DoF

poida said:


> I am away overseas on business for a month starting next week. We are using that as a break. I think it will be good for us.


Quite opposite actually.....it's REALLY bad for you. When there is problems in marriage, last thing you want is separation.

Almost seems like you are making excuses to get away from her? Not good.......


----------



## jaquen

It's as vital as it is to you.

Look I know plenty of dudes for whom intense physical attractiveness isn't all that important. As long as the woman they're with is attractive enough, and has lots of other great qualities, they're all good.

And then there are guys who need outward physical attraction in a very potent, strong way.

Personally? I know, objectively speaking, my wife isn't going to win Ms. Universe or be on the cover of FHM; she's attractive but she's not a "10" in the general sense. We've been together for a long time, through lots of physical shifts in our bodies, namely weight (in both our cases). I've seen her at all states, from dressed to kill to unkempt. But I can't just look at my wife's looks objectively. My view of her is greatly colored by my enormous love for her. My attraction for her, sexually, truly is well beyond skin deep. Hell my wife has put on enough weight that once upon a time I thought would be enough to severely cut my sexual desire for her, and not even that's been the case. Love is a powerful drug that truly can alter even your perception of the physical world around you. 

Does that mean that if my wife did a make over, lost some pounds, and came out looking like a centerfold that I wouldn't respond very heartily in kind? Of course not. But it's absolutely not necessary for me, as I am so connected to her even on her most unkempt day. 

I've been hit on by some very attractive women. But I've never even once thought of slipping out on my wife, no matter how hot the supposed competition is. Why? Because, all things considered, inside with the out, my wife is the best, most beautiful, gift God has ever blessed me with (outside of his very self).


----------



## poida

DoF said:


> Quite opposite actually.....it's REALLY bad for you. When there is problems in marriage, last thing you want is separation.
> 
> Almost seems like you are making excuses to get away from her? Not good.......


Seems like you have conflicting advice.

Anyway I know it will be good for us, and for the reason that you yourself touched on.

I am still sorting out my own stuff and need to time to do that.

A month away I exactly what I need.


----------



## poida

jaquen said:


> It's as vital as it is to you.
> 
> Look I know plenty of dudes for whom intense physical attractiveness isn't all that important. As long as the woman they're with is attractive enough, and has lots of other great qualities, they're all good.
> 
> And then there are guys who need outward physical attraction in a very potent, strong way.
> 
> Personally? I know, objectively speaking, my wife isn't going to win Ms. Universe or be on the cover of FHM; she's attractive but she's not a "10" in the general sense. We've been together for a long time, through lots of physical shifts in our bodies, namely weight (in both our cases). I've seen her at all states, from dressed to kill to unkempt. But I can't just look at my wife's looks objectively. My view of her is greatly colored by my enormous love for her. My attraction for her, sexually, truly is well beyond skin deep. Hell my wife has put on enough weight that once upon a time I thought would be enough to severely cut my sexual desire for her, and not even that's been the case. Love is a powerful drug that truly can alter even your perception of the physical world around you.
> 
> Does that mean that if my wife did a make over, lost some pounds, and came out looking like a centerfold that I wouldn't respond very heartily in kind? Of course not. But it's absolutely not necessary for me, as I am so connected to her even on her most unkempt day.
> 
> I've been hit on by some very attractive women. But I've never even once thought of slipping out on my wife, no matter how hot the supposed competition is. Why? Because, all things considered, inside with the out, my wife is the best, most beautiful, gift God has ever blessed me with (outside of his very self).


Thanks Jaquen for your truly open and helpful response. This is all I could have hoped for as a response to my topic.


----------



## poida

DoF said:


> Quite opposite actually.....it's REALLY bad for you. When there is problems in marriage, last thing you want is separation.
> 
> Almost seems like you are making excuses to get away from her? Not good.......


Actually.....what the F are you on about. I can't see how you go from earlier comments to this one.

You do realise I'm not married to this woman don't you?

You do realise YOU suggested taking a break.

Too many beers before hitting the keyboard?

Don't bother replying. I'm just getting annoyed at your responses.


----------



## Thundarr

poida said:


> SO HERE IS THE QUESTION;
> 
> Can a long term relationship (and marriage) be sustained when you initially might not consider your partner the most attractive person?
> 
> Or to put it bluntly, is it possible to love and marry a woman we might not find particularly attractive and not think we are missing out on anything?
> 
> Don't bother with the "dude, break up with her" comments. I am looking for feedback from men who have married the woman they didn't think was really attractive at the start.
> 
> Have at it.


Give it a shot and see. You're just out of a failed marriage and I'm sure you have scars and trust issues to work through. If this is the right girl then you won't be wondering about it later on and if she's not then you'll know something feels off.


----------



## Forest

On the physical attractiveness thing:

If it isn't fundamentally vital, I must just be from the shallow end of the pool. There has never been a significant female relationship in my life that was not brought about via physical attraction.


----------



## 2ntnuf

poida said:


> SO HERE IS THE QUESTION;
> 
> Can a long term relationship (and marriage) be sustained when you initially might not consider your partner the most attractive person?
> 
> Or to put it bluntly, is it possible to love and marry a woman we might not find particularly attractive and not think we are missing out on anything?


I was very physically(chemically) attracted to my first wife. I did think I loved her. It was not a mature love, in my opinion. It was more a childish love. It was love. 

My second wife, was more like you are describing. She had the personality that my first wife did not and was more pleasing to me. However, when the chips were down, I did not feel a great need for sex with her. 

I believe, it's not your choice as much as it is both of your choices. I think she has a say in this attraction issue. She may feel really hot for you and want a man, like most women, who really wants her. At least, that's what I've read here. Some don't feel that way, but the majority seem to need or really like to feel that desire from their husband, at least on here.

Don't sell yourself short. I think you deserve to find a woman who is as happy with you as you are with her, in a physical, mental and emotional sense. I'm not saying to look for perfection, just don't let either of you settle too much. 

In the long run, you will both be happier, if you find the best overall compatibility in a partner. I think you will have the best chance that way.


----------



## Thundarr

Forest said:


> On the physical attractiveness thing:
> 
> If it isn't fundamentally vital, I must just be from the shallow end of the pool. There has never been a significant female relationship in my life that was not brought about via physical attraction.


No it's not shallow Forest . Attraction is a factor and that's not going to change. But personality traits raise and lower attraction as well. There are some character traits that diminish anyone's looks and other traits that just make them look better.


----------



## poida

Hmmm.
Not feelin' it this morning with the GF.
Beginning to think the physical appearance might be an issue longer term now.
Regards,
Peter


----------



## bravenewworld

Ok I realize this thread is for the menz but one thing I find genuinely confusing - How can you get aroused by and have great sex with someone you aren't attracted to? 

I understand that you might get aroused by someone you aren't very attracted to (friction is friction) but the part about it being great and yet insisting there is no physical attraction is weird to me. :scratchhead:


----------



## treyvion

bravenewworld said:


> Ok I realize this thread is for the menz but one thing I find genuinely confusing - How can you get aroused by and have great sex with someone you aren't attracted to?
> 
> I understand that you might get aroused by someone you aren't very attracted to (friction is friction) but the part about it being great and yet insisting there is no physical attraction is weird to me. :scratchhead:


As men there can be this weird thing were they don't look that "good" to you but you want to pound them for some strange reason. Defies logic.


----------



## bandit.45

poida said:


> Hmmm.
> Not feelin' it this morning with the GF.
> Beginning to think the physical appearance might be an issue longer term now.
> Regards,
> Peter


Poida...

Just quit being a douche and call it off. Call it off man. You are not attracted to her. It's not going to get better. It's not. Not ever. 

You like boys with breasts....parallelograms....thin chicks. You've made that clear. This chick is a pudgiford and you're not into her. 

Quit whining about it and just cut the cord. Yeah she will be hurt. She might even hate you. She might call you an SOB and say you were just using her. Let her go. Let her get over you. Move on. 

Frankly I'm sick of hearing about it.


----------



## 2ntnuf

bravenewworld said:


> Ok I realize this thread is for the menz but one thing I find genuinely confusing - How can you get aroused by and have great sex with someone you aren't attracted to?
> 
> I understand that you might get aroused by someone you aren't very attracted to (friction is friction) but the part about it being great and yet insisting there is no physical attraction is weird to me. :scratchhead:


A man can be attracted to a wide range of body types. Personality, her desire and respect, and her love can make a difference in letting go and holding on. 

One thing for certain is, it's really tough, whether one is a man or woman, to find the most compatible combination of traits in a SO that will lead to a long-term commitment, a good one that is. 

Many just take a chance, go on a date and have a short-term relationship, knowing the need a little sex. Some, find themselves falling in love, because the woman is so wonderful, it makes up for a lot of other things that seem so much less important. It's easier to find sex than a compatible partner. 

Look at the threads running on "numbers". Why do they do that? I figure, many of them just can't find the right person to marry and they need sex, so they take what they can get. I think, anyway. I don't know.


----------



## ne9907

treyvion said:


> As men there can be this weird thing were they don't look that "good" to you but you want to pound them for some strange reason. Defies logic.


Could you elaborate on this?


----------



## treyvion

ne9907 said:


> Could you elaborate on this?


We're men. Sometimes it won't be the "model" or best "looking" one you want to just pound. Something about her makes you want it bad.


----------



## ne9907

treyvion said:


> We're men. Sometimes it won't be the "model" or best "looking" one you want to just pound. Something about her makes you want it bad.


That is weird... (woman here, notice I am not answering OP's post). I would not have sex with a man I do not find attractive. I must be attracted to him, all the way.


----------



## jaquen

bravenewworld said:


> Ok I realize this thread is for the menz but one thing I find genuinely confusing - How can you get aroused by and have great sex with someone you aren't attracted to?
> 
> I understand that you might get aroused by someone you aren't very attracted to (friction is friction) but the part about it being great and yet insisting there is no physical attraction is weird to me. :scratchhead:


How would that be any different than a woman who has "great sex" with a back massager?

Plenty of people have had great sexual experiences with inanimate objects, so it stands to reason that plenty of people are able to have great, pleasurable sexual experiences with live human beings who don't, in general, attract them all that much.


----------



## bravenewworld

jaquen said:


> How would that be any different than a woman who has "great sex" with a back massager?
> 
> Plenty of people have had great sexual experiences with inanimate objects, so it stands to reason that plenty of people are able to have great, pleasurable sexual experiences with live human beings who don't, in general, attract them all that much.


I think most people using sex toys solo would rate them as "satisfactory" but not necessarily great. It gets the job done but I think most people fantasize the entire time. It's not like you are getting turned on by caressing the back massager unless you like inanimate objects. 

I'm not saying you can't have satisfactory sex with someone you aren't attracted to - but great sex? I dunno. Feels to me like you are attracted but have some issue with acknowledging it.


----------



## Thundarr

bravenewworld said:


> Ok I realize this thread is for the menz but one thing I find genuinely confusing - How can you get aroused by and have great sex with someone you aren't attracted to?
> 
> I understand that you might get aroused by someone you aren't very attracted to (friction is friction) but the part about it being great and yet insisting there is no physical attraction is weird to me. :scratchhead:


Attraction is more subjective than people like to admit. It has more to do with thinking we can do better in terms of physical beauty and that's a state of mind more than anything else.

Give any pimple face geeky kid a guitar and a hit song and just see how his perception of attraction changes. All of a sudden the his opportunity changes and so does his perception of who he finds attractive.


----------



## treyvion

ne9907 said:


> That is weird... (woman here, notice I am not answering OP's post). I would not have sex with a man I do not find attractive. I must be attracted to him, all the way.


Some times for men it's a stupid "****" or high sex drive thing. You sniff it in her and want to pound her hard.

Even more than a perfectly manicured and put together model. Her sex is probably restricive in retrospect where the **** is ready for balls to the walls action.

I'm telling you the truth, men want to pound some ones, which may not hit the top "attraction" points, but for sex game, she does something to them.


----------



## lifeistooshort

treyvion said:


> Some times for men it's a stupid "****" or high sex drive thing. You sniff it in her and want to pound her hard.
> 
> Even more than a perfectly manicured and put together model. Her sex is probably restricive in retrospect where the **** is ready for balls to the walls action.
> 
> I'm telling you the truth, men want to pound some ones, which may not hit the top "attraction" points, but for sex game, she does something to them.


Interesting. Appreciate the insight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## always_alone

treyvion said:


> I'm telling you the truth, men want to pound some ones, which may not hit the top "attraction" points, but for sex game, she does something to them.


Sounds to me like someone who is can't see beyond the glossy 2-d into real people and real feelings.


----------



## Thundarr

treyvion said:


> I'm telling you the truth, men want to pound some ones, which may not hit the top "attraction" points, but for sex game, she does something to them.
> 
> 
> 
> always_alone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds to me like someone who is can't see beyond the glossy 2-d into real people and real feelings.
Click to expand...

You missed his point AA. It's quite the opposite of glossy 2-d. Treyvion was pointing out that some people we find unattractive (not glossy) have a weird sex appeal that makes us want them sexually.

I don't think this is only one gender though. There are subtle things we cant put our finger on that makes certain people more/less sexy.


----------



## Deejo

Looks are optional.

Attraction is mandatory.

Attraction, in whatever form, is the glue that holds the relationship together.
Take attraction away, and there is simply no way the relationship grows.


----------



## always_alone

Thundarr said:


> You missed his point AA. It's quite the opposite of glossy 2-d. Treyvion was pointing out that some people we find unattractive (not glossy) have a weird sex appeal that makes us want them sexually.


I didn't miss the point at all. Anyone who is wanting to "pound" someone is attracted to them. Saying that they aren't either means they're completely out of touch with their feelings or somehow believes that one can only be legitimately attracted to a glossy 2-d model type. 

Or both.

There is nothing "weird" about being sexually attracted to someone who doesn't fit the current "hot" stereotypes and there is no automatic attraction just because someone does.

At least not for most real people with real feelings.


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## jaquen

bandit.45 said:


> You like boys with breasts....parallelograms....thin chicks. You've made that clear. This chick is a pudgiford and you're not into her.


Thin women are "boys with breasts"? Are you serious? Is that how damn fat we've gotten that a thin woman is becoming so rare that she's being compared to a male child?


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## bandit.45

jaquen said:


> Thin women are "boys with breasts"? Are you serious? Is that how damn fat we've gotten that a thin woman is becoming so rare that she's being compared to a male child?


Hmmmmm....yeah....

Cameron Diaz case in point. Take away her tits and she's a guy. A pretty guy.


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## jaquen

bandit.45 said:


> Hmmmmm....yeah....
> 
> Cameron Diaz case in point. Take away her tits and she's a guy. A pretty guy.


That's so damn derogatory and disgusting that I'm not even gonna try and touch it.

Maybe some woman will come along and educate your ignorance.


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## poida

murphy5 said:


> Woah.....slow down there Tex.
> 
> You met her 3 months ago and are talking to her about having 5 kids????
> 
> Uhh...are you serious?
> 
> You need to DATE HER ONLY, no moving in with her, for a good year and a half to really see if you two love each other. You DO SEE THIS, RIGHT? That you just broke up and CAN NOT TRUST your own emotions yet???
> 
> Her physical attributes really do not make that much differenc IF you love her. The point is, you DO NOT KNOW if you love her yet.
> 
> So, tell her you need to take the relationship slow at this point. DO NOT MOVE IN, do not marry her. Instead date her, really get to KNOW HER personality, how you treat each other, what things you have in common.
> 
> Too bad you are divorcing your ex wife so soon. You could have used her as a throw-away girl to practice having a normal relationship. i.e. try various things out in the relationship, see which worked, figure out yourself, and THEN divorced the cheating biyatch.
> 
> GO SLOW!


I just had a 1 month work trip OS and upon returning get back in the sack, had a very emotionally connected weekend (dropped the L word a few times) and the next night had a breakdown in the middle of the night.

It is becoming clear to me I'm not emotionally ready.

I adore this woman though so I'm taking your advice on this one.


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## poida

intheory said:


> OP,
> 
> My husband told me that he was initially attracted to me emotionally.
> 
> The physical (in the beginning), well, I was a young female body with a pulse. I could probably have had a bag over my face.
> 
> He didn't try to conceal how attracted he was to other women.
> 
> Over the years, that has changed. Although he is pretty critical; he is much more complimentary to me than he was in the beginning. But it's been mostly about attraction to my body below the neck.
> 
> And, I am only average looking. So, he's being honest.
> 
> That said; he has always seemed to need me emotionally. And for friendship. Those are the things he has told me he appreciates most. We have been married 26 years.
> 
> Don't know if that helps you sort out your feelings for this girl. You sound very confused; if you don't mind me saying so.


Thanks IT. Yes, I have realised I am one confused bloke. A month away was good for me and I'm beginning to accept that there will always be more attractive women (physically) out there, it is the woman who melts my heart that I want, regardless of physical attractiveness.

In fact, I would say I'm the type of guy (despite being intensely loyal) that will ALWAY look at other women. It's just nature.


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## sinnister

jaquen said:


> That's so damn derogatory and disgusting that I'm not even gonna try and touch it.
> 
> Maybe some woman will come along and educate your ignorance.


I disagree with you. I think curves are far more attractive in a woman than straight lines. 

And I think the women would be far more likely to chastize you about calling all women with curves fat, than him for what he wrote.


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## Fozzy

Looks? Pshaw.

Everyone knows it's all about confidence.


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## poida

Perhaps I'm just not ready to fall in love again yet and that is where I come across a barrier.
The dilemma or what scares me is that once I am eventually ready, I decide it isn't happening and I need to let her go. That would be cruel.


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## Thundarr

poida said:


> Perhaps I'm just not ready to fall in love again yet and that is where I come across a barrier.
> The dilemma or what scares me is that once I am eventually ready, I decide it isn't happening and I need to let her go. That would be cruel.


Yes it is a dilemma. Be honest but not brutally honest. Flip flop the situation around and try to figure out what you'd want her to share with you if rolls were reversed. If she knows that you're not sure if it's a forever deal or not and she wants to give it a shot then that's fine. It seems like you're not sure yet so you can't give her too many detail anyway.


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## poida

Thundarr said:


> Yes it is a dilemma. Be honest but not brutally honest. Flip flop the situation around and try to figure out what you'd want her to share with you if rolls were reversed. If she knows that you're not sure if it's a forever deal or not and she wants to give it a shot then that's fine. It seems like you're not sure yet so you can't give her too many detail anyway.


Thanks mate. 

I have been completely open and honest all along saying I'm still recovering from being cheated on, that I'm still feeling unsure about how this will all end, but I really like who she is and that I would just like to take it slow, spend a bit of time apart each week and see where things go.

I have also dropped subtle hints about her physical appearance where I have genuinely experienced a change how I see her. That way she receives a compliment but also knows that whilst I might not have initially been attracted to a larger girl after being with a model skinny wife, I'm starting to enjoy being with a woman with a bit of junk in her trunk. I find it sexy now whereas before I really wasn't that into it.

I think it's about all I can do at the moment. I'm trying to be respectful, honest and as truthful as I can be.

I think someone's face is definitely out of bounds though. You either fall for their face or you don't. But you never comment about it. It is too personal. To me, she is a relatively average looking girl, but I am with her because I genuinely think that once I am ready to fall again, I think she will become beautiful to me. Then I will have a beautiful woman with an amazing personality. That is what is keeping me with her.


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## 2ntnuf

You know what? Many say we should not settle, and we really shouldn't. The other side of that coin is, we all settle, to some extent. You have to know yourself first, then choose a woman who generally meets those criteria you have in mind, and just do the best you can. 

My first wife was 5'1" and at her heaviest, 110 lbs., if I remember correctly. It could have been 115 lbs. with "B" cups, and they were on the small side of "B's". If you've read posts of mine, that might surprise you, but that's what I've said was the most attractive physique to me. 

My second wife was 5'7", and somewhere around 200lbs. That's a big difference in physique. She was attractive to me. She was not as attractive as my first wife, in body. There were other things I thought made up for that. Trouble is, when those things that helped make her attractive went away, she became unattractive very quickly. 

My first wife never became sexually unattractive, no matter what happened. I will qualify that with the fact that, once we were doing it, neither one talked about mundane things, or much of anything. So, the things which made x1 unattractive were no longer a factor. I know that reads mean. I don't mean it to be. It's the truth and I'm hoping you will be careful about who you choose to spend a huge amount of your free time with.


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## LoveBeingFemale

You are coming out of a divorce. She is 32 and the biological time clock is ticking, therefore she is wanting to settle down and have children soon. If you are not attracted to her physically at this stage, it's going to be very difficult after having children. Younger women can get back in shape fairly quickly after giving birth. Older women can have difficulty getting back in shape. Looks fade dramatically as you probably are aware. I would definitely go for chemistry over looks.


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## ChristianGrey

Its quite simple. 

If she cant get it up then she cant have it.


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## LoveBeingFemale

independentgirl said:


> The biological clock, modern women these day who still can have children in their 40s, both mom and baby safe, healthcare have improve greatly since the old days.
> 
> Age not always goes with looks; this year I am 30, but I still look like I am in my twenties. My pic in my profile page.
> My man is 29, but he look OLDER than me. He wants a baby, but it going to be put on hold; no way on earth we're ready to bring a baby in this world.
> 
> And I fully agree, always choose chemistry over looks.


We have to stop pretending that women can have babies in their 40s. These may be the exception, not the rule. Fertility for women greatly declines in their early to mid-30s. It doesn't matter how old/young you look either. You have eggs which just aren't viable, and the risk of having children with disorders increases greatly. I'm not saying not to have a child later if that is what one wishes. I'm just saying we have to stop pretending that it's the norm. That's why so many women, if they haven't had children, usually will be rushing to have children in their early to mid-30s. Because it gets much harder once you reach age 35.


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## poida

2ntnuf said:


> You know what? Many say we should not settle, and we really shouldn't. The other side of that coin is, we all settle, to some extent. You have to know yourself first, then choose a woman who generally meets those criteria you have in mind, and just do the best you can.
> 
> My first wife was 5'1" and at her heaviest, 110 lbs., if I remember correctly. It could have been 115 lbs. with "B" cups, and they were on the small side of "B's". If you've read posts of mine, that might surprise you, but that's what I've said was the most attractive physique to me.
> 
> My second wife was 5'7", and somewhere around 200lbs. That's a big difference in physique. She was attractive to me. She was not as attractive as my first wife, in body. There were other things I thought made up for that. Trouble is, when those things that helped make her attractive went away, she became unattractive very quickly.
> 
> My first wife never became sexually unattractive, no matter what happened. I will qualify that with the fact that, once we were doing it, neither one talked about mundane things, or much of anything. So, the things which made x1 unattractive were no longer a factor. I know that reads mean. I don't mean it to be. It's the truth and I'm hoping you will be careful about who you choose to spend a huge amount of your free time with.


I am in the same situation and thinking the same things.

My first wife was 5'9 and 100llbs also and A cup. You can imagine how skinny that is but you know what, she looked great.

Current girl is also 200lb's. C cup, fairly thick thighed and of course.... cellulite.

Probably the biggest difference in my case is that the chemistry and sex with #2 is far more intense and her sex drive is much higher. She will initiate sex every day (If I don't beat her that is) and any time of the day. She is also very in touch with her sexuality and her body and not afraid to use it. That is very sexy to any man I would say.

I really appreciate your honest thoughts and it is one of the first open and honest personal accounts I have seen here about body type and shape.

I am very cautious and I know if I care about how she feels, the best thing I can do is be honest with myself and not waste her time if it isn't there long term.

To be brutally honest, it is her sexual nature and our AMAZING personal compatibility that is keeping me here. 

I have to admit I'm scared about how she will look after kids, but the above benefits at the moment out weigh the negatives significantly.

I know we should not be settling, but I have to accept I am 35, balding and not in top shape (but still relatively well toned and relatively muscular). 

I have given myself until after Christmas to see what happens, but I am a bit stressed attending her huge family Christmas. I question whether I should in this mindset.


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## CuddleBug

poida said:


> Hi Guys,
> This is a question for guys ONLY. No female comments please - you simply won't get it.
> 
> Before you judge, some background info about me;
> - Intensely mothered child
> - Father mostly distant and emotionally cold
> - Very late developer
> - Few girlfriends
> - Mother/father separation at age 16
> - Have never really bonded with mum again
> - Few girlfriends and never really fell in love
> - Instant love with GF 15 years ago.
> - Married at 21 after 1.5 years together.
> - Caught wife cheating 10 months ago
> - Separated after 1 month
> - After lots of counselling I realised I always sought attention from women and always sought their approval
> - Also realised very reliant on my wife emotionally
> - Also realised my love for her was very fantasy based
> - Wife always unable to tell me how she felt or what she wanted in our relationship.
> - Wife didn't have a dad at home and also relied on me as father figure.
> - Realised that I was depressed in our marriage because my emotional needs were not being met.
> - Realised my depression meant my wife no longer saw me as a strong leader and father figure. So she decided to seek a stronger figure. Cheated.
> - Realised that I have never really had a strong emotional connection with a woman up to now.
> - Realised that a lot of my fantasy based emotions were strongly based on physical appearance as a result.
> - Realised that I judge people a lot on physical appearance.
> - We are about to divorce (Australia)
> - I have dated 5-6 women after 3-4 months of separation
> - Met current GF 4 months ago
> - Divided assets last month.
> - Moved into my own house 1 month ago.
> - Still getting over the cheating, separation and divorce, but getting there fairly quickly.
> 
> About my GF and me;
> - When I met my current GF, we had an instant spark. We have great chemistry stronger than in my marriage.
> 
> - Truly great sex, awesome kissing and a very open and honest relationship. She is a truly kind, honest, loyal, caring, sexual, loving woman.
> 
> - She is 32, has a good job, has her own flat, hasn't been married, wants 5 kids and is ready to settle down.
> 
> - She is 5'9", size 10/12, C cups, fairly tapered waist, slightly pear shaped hips, reasonably large butt, but of a tummy, lots of freckles. Maybe a 6-7.
> 
> - Her face is well proportioned, freckly, nice nose, big brown round eyes, nice ears. Prominent forehead and little bit of a saggy under chin. Say a 6-7.
> 
> - For reference, I'm 6'0", around 82kg. Probably a 7, would probably be a 8.5 if I didn't have receding hairline.
> 
> Don't judge yet. Just trying to give accurate info.
> 
> I have had times where I have felt love for her (and said so), and other times when I'm not feeling it. Generally though I'm just a bit worried about not being attracted to her in the future whilst being fully aware that I am not yet ready to immerse myself in those feelings right now.
> 
> I really enjoy being with her and I think she is great. I would really like to look at her face and body and just feel that "wow, she is stunning" feeling, but right now it isn't there. I just look at her with fondness and accept what I see.
> 
> Above all, I don't want to hurt this woman and I don't want to waste her time. I am trying to figure out;
> - if physical attractiveness will become irrelevant to me in time,
> - or if it will always be there, playing on my mind,
> - or even if I am likely to begin to find her attractive if/when I fall for her more,
> - or even if physical attractiveness will prevent me from falling for her fully.
> 
> SO HERE IS THE QUESTION;
> 
> Can a long term relationship (and marriage) be sustained when you initially might not consider your partner the most attractive person?
> 
> Or to put it bluntly, is it possible to love and marry a woman we might not find particularly attractive and not think we are missing out on anything?
> 
> Don't bother with the "dude, break up with her" comments. I am looking for feedback from men who have married the woman they didn't think was really attractive at the start.
> 
> Have at it.



I will be totally honest with you.

I felt similar when dating Mrs.CuddleBug to be.

Mrs.CuddleBug is not what we would call a hottie, babe, etc.

She needed to lose 80 lbs over the last 15 years and now has lost 50 lbs.

She is starting to really take care of herself, clothes, teeth, sex drive, etc.

Yes I could of dated and got serious with hotties or babes.

Guys I know that are in a relationship with hotties, babes, are telling me, they are a headache, high maintenance and a pain. At first, its all great, because they're hot, but then reality sinks in and they wish they were single.....

Mrs.CuddleBug loses the weight she wants gone in a few more years, sex drive goes higher, confidence goes up more, she will be that diamond in the rough that most wouldn't of seen and I have.......I am a lucky man but wouldn't of seen of even said this when we were dating or just married.


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## poida

Thanks CB. Appreciated.


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