# Hubby upset about not getting a Christmas present.



## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

My hubby got upset with me today because he didn’t get any presents from me. First time in 17 years together. I always buy something for him for his Birthday, Valentine’s day, and Christmas. I am the one who buys his clothes, or whatever he needs also.

While I never, ever get anything from him for Christmas, not just Christmas. My birthday was two weeks ago. Didn’t get anything from him. I had to order and pick up my own food myself that day after work. Even my own birthday cake. Didn’t complain to him since he worked till late.
His excuse for not buying me presents is that you can buy anything you want, while he can buy anything he wants also, because I am not the only one in charge of the money.
Even if he buys something for me( 3-4 times maybe, I have received something from him in all these years together )is going to be the cheapest flowers at CVS, not even from a floral store. Never complained, anyway.
He got upset, went out and is not answering his phone.🤦‍♀️
It doesn’t suprise me because he loves drama and he is a very selfish man, but still don’t get it.
How does he expect something from me when he never buys me anything?!
Am I wrong?!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Nope.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Let him pout, I would just ignore it and go about your day.


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## nypsychnurse (Jan 13, 2019)

The adult thing to do would be to have a conversation about whether or not you will exchange gifts...
For me, Christmas is for the kids and I rarely exchange gifts with the adults in my life...but usually always have a conversation about it...that way, everyone is clear.
For Birthdays, anniversaries...a nice night out was always the norm...although not the right thing to do during these unprecedented times.


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

nypsychnurse said:


> The adult thing to do would be to have a conversation about whether or not you will exchange gifts...
> For me, Christmas is for the kids and I rarely exchange gifts with the adults in my life...but usually always have a conversation about it...that way, everyone is clear.
> For Birthdays, anniversaries...a nice night out was always the norm...although not the right thing to do during these unprecedented times.
> 
> ...


I have had this conversation many years ago, but he doesn’t get it. I just gave up.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sounds like a spoiled little boy and that you're in the role of his mother so yes I think it's about time that stops.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

This is how you say it "Me, no presents; You, no presents". Period! What an entitled child.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

marcy* said:


> It doesn’t suprise me because he loves drama and he is a very selfish man, but still don’t get it.


You know what I don't get? Why you've spent this many years with a man like ^^this.^^


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Prodigal said:


> You know what I don't get? Why you've spent this many years with a man like ^^this.^^


I know, but life wasn’t easy for me. I come from another country. I have no one here. You know not getting presents from him, is the least of my problems with him. I have shared with you guys here my problems.

He came home an hour later and was mad still. We had a big fight (divorce was mentioned) which is very normal with him, and he still plays the victim. He thinks just because he brings more money than me, I shouldn’t expect any presents from him...and is not that he is good with money, or saves money for his family. He gambles, but doesn’t have time to buy even a chocolate for me. I never asked for expensive gifts. Never cared about jewlery. 
The house is under both names and he thinks is only his. He said you can leave, this is my house.🤦‍♀️ I don’t even care about the house. We bought it only three years ago(huge mistake). He has threatened me before with burning down the house if I leave. Even though he asks me to leave, he doesn’t mean it. I feel like is going to hurt me or kids more if I leave him. I feel stuck. That’s the only reason I am still married to him. But I am saving my paycheck since he never aporeciates it and I may need some money if I leave.
So right now we are not speaking to each other. All started because he didn’t get a present.🤦‍♀️


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

He is being very childish.
Just tell him flat out:
"You don't ever get me presents for anything, so I will not get YOU presents for anything.
You are mad because I didn't get you a Christmas present -- well, where is MY Christmas present?
Don't you see this is hypocritical?"


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If you know for sure your name is on the house, it is half yours and so are all the other assets. It's not good staying in a bad situation that is hostile for the kids. That is miserable for the kids and a bad example of what is acceptable. Hey, nearly every woman in the world, her husband makes more money than her. Doesn't matter. You share a life ,the family, the assets. 

What you really need to do is just get away from this arrogant abuser and your first stop is a family law attorney, who can freeze the assets so he can't start trying to mess with them. The fees come out of your mutual assets. I get you feel alone, but you are not. You have kids. You can make him take those kids 50 percent of the time and force his juvenile ass into growing up whether he wants to or not, and that leaves you time to work and have leisure, and he can just deal with accommodating them however he wants. Don't spend your one life this way!


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I completely agree. Please consider seeing an attorney so that you know what's what.



DownByTheRiver said:


> ...your first stop is a family law attorney...


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

marcy* said:


> life wasn’t easy for me.


^^This^^ is no excuse to stay with an abusive lunatic that is threatening to burn down his own house. To begin with, I honestly doubt he would follow through on his threat(s). Why? Because he asks you to leave, but you claim he doesn't mean it.

Look, you can remain stuck and come up with an infinite number of excuses to stay. Or you can call this loser's bluff and get out soon.

BTW, I left my alcoholic husband when I had NO job, the economy in the U.S. had tanked (2009), and I had cancer with no health insurance. Sorry, but the life isn't easy excuse doesn't float. If you want to get this man out of your life badly enough, you'll put all your energy into building a life without him and moving on. Seriously.

ETA: I am NOBODY special. I don't possess a huge bank account or any special strength or talents, but I got out. The thing is, you keep complaining about this jerk you married. Quit complaining and actually DO something, and realize that any man who threatens to burn down his own house is A LOSER AND NOT WORTH YOUR TIME. Get out and get a decent life. Life isn't easy for you? MAKE IT EASIER BY LEAVING THIS JERK.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

marcy* said:


> My hubby got upset with me today because he didn’t get any presents from me. First time in 17 years together. I always buy something for him for his Birthday, Valentine’s day, and Christmas. I am the one who buys his clothes, or whatever he needs also.
> 
> While I never, ever get anything from him for Christmas, not just Christmas. My birthday was two weeks ago. Didn’t get anything from him. I had to order and pick up my own food myself that day after work. Even my own birthday cake. Didn’t complain to him since he worked till late.
> His excuse for not buying me presents is that you can buy anything you want, while he can buy anything he wants also, because I am not the only one in charge of the money.
> ...


Probably already said, but why are you with this guy still?

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## nypsychnurse (Jan 13, 2019)

Your husband is a bully, an abuser...and he gets away with it because you let him!
Stop taking his cr*p! You have kids? Your name is on the house? He needs to go, not you!
See an attorney to find out what your rights are...join a support group and empower yourself...this cr*p needs to stop!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

marcy* said:


> He got upset, went out and is not answering his phone.🤦‍♀️
> It doesn’t suprise me because he loves drama and he is a very selfish man, but still don’t get it.
> How does he expect something from me when he never buys me anything?!
> Am I wrong?!


This is what happens when one person does all the giving and one does all the taking.

You married a selfish little child. How you've stood it this long is a mystery to me.

Exactly when did you decide to shed all your self-respect and be perfectly fine with having absolutely *ZERO* expectations in a partner?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You broke the mold.

How dare you.

His good little wife is getting wise. You are slowly, slowly breaking away.

How dare you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

He hates himself, he hates you.
He does not punish himself, he punishes you.
To him, that is your purpose.

As odd as it seems, he hangs in there because you have.

Some teenage girls cut themselves due to inner turmoil.
Some grown men cut those handiest to them.

You serve a purpose, a horrible one.
Let him be totally alone.
Stop being and feeding his purpose.


_Gwendolyn-_


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

jlg07 said:


> He is being very childish.
> Just tell him flat out:
> "You don't ever get me presents for anything, so I will not get YOU presents for anything.
> You are mad because I didn't get you a Christmas present -- well, where is MY Christmas present?
> Don't you see this is hypocritical?"


He doesn’t get it. We fought more yesterday. His huge Ego was hurt. 🙄 He was like I can’t believe you left me without present on purpose. I didn’t do it on purpose I just felt tired. We bought many things lately for the house, so I thought he will understand. But I am glad I did leave him without one. All this showed how selfish( I knew anyway) and closeminded he is. He was complaining that since I didn’t buy him anything I don’t love him, I don’t care for him, but he “ loves me” and I shouldn’t expect anything from him.
He saw me preparing presents for friends, coworkers and my kids teachers and thought he would get one too. I rather give my coworkers than him because I know they will give me something too.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He thinks presents show love. By that reasoning, he has to admit that he has shown you no love all of these years. I don't think you will get anywhere trying to reason with a child. Reciprocity is too big of a word for him.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> This is what happens when one person does all the giving and one does all the taking.
> 
> You married a selfish little child. How you've stood it this long is a mystery to me.
> 
> Exactly when did you decide to shed all your self-respect and be perfectly fine with having absolutely *ZERO* expectations in a partner?


You right. I lowered my expections just to avoid fighting with him and I just ended hurting myself more. 
He is not even better than me in any way. I have more education than him, I am a better person than him( even his friends say that to him) .
I have been unlucky finding a better paying job, but mostly because I had to take care of our kids since he worked long hours. That’s what made me hesitate mostly. My paycheck wasn’t enough. Didn’t want to end up in shelters with my kids.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

nypsychnurse said:


> Your husband is a bully, an abuser...and he gets away with it because you let him!
> Stop taking his cr*p! You have kids? Your name is on the house? He needs to go, not you!
> See an attorney to find out what your rights are...join a support group and empower yourself...this cr*p needs to stop!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


The only way he would leave the house is by calling the police. He thinks the house is his and really doesn’t get it how law works here in USA. Don’t expect more from a person who has a partiarchal mindset. That’s how he was raised He is too selfish to even think for his kids. Actually he wants to take the kids away from me, especially our daughter because he thinks my “future boyfriends” will abuse her. 🤦‍♀️He is not even a good father. He is a bully. If I go that far, call the police, I know he will do anything to make my life miserable. He has mentioned many times that he would rather end up homeless than pay child support to me. I have been a big help to him all these years. Never saw anything bad from me and still he just want to see me suffer if I leave him. He is a vengeful man.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> He thinks presents show love. By that reasoning, he has to admit that he has shown you no love all of these years. I don't think you will get anywhere trying to reason with a child. Reciprocity is too big of a word for him.


No you can’t reason with him. Even our teenage son said that he shouldn’t be upset if he didn’t give you anything.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

How is this man still alive with his testicles intact? My wife would have skinned me alive and mounted my balls on a spike if I didn't get her a gift on birthdays and at Christmas and then had the cheek to complain that she didn't get me anything!

Sorry but your husband is dead wrong on this one and also seems to perhaps be being bit of a dinosaur about the whole issue. Is he expecting you to sort out your own present as well as his?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

A bigger person forgives other's their sins.
In his eyes, you were a bigger person than he.

The best present you can give a sleeping man is sunlight.
That, My Dear, was your bigger gift to him.



_SunCMars-_


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

AGoodFlogging said:


> How is this man still alive with his testicles intact? My wife would have skinned me alive and mounted my balls on a spike if I didn't get her a gift on birthdays and at Christmas and then had the cheek to complain that she didn't get me anything!
> 
> Sorry but your husband is dead wrong on this one and also seems to perhaps be being bit of a dinosaur about the whole issue. Is he expecting you to sort out your own present as well as his?


Of course he expects me to buy my own presents. We have a joint bank account we both use. He thinks that me having access to that money is more than enough. I don’t mind buying myself presents since we have very different tastes but still I would never say no or complain, if he buys me something, ...anything.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

marcy* said:


> No you can’t reason with him. *Even our teenage son* said that he shouldn’t be upset if he didn’t give you anything.


That apple that fell off of the tree rolled _properly farther_ from his father.
The son is your peach.

Those never punished never feel the need to change.


_King Brian-_


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Your husband feels himself King, you his subject.

That thought is now a subject of debate.

He needs to get off his toilet throne and kneel before his kind wife.

He reins over nothing. 
He rains over everyone else's parade.



_The Typist-_


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

marcy* said:


> My hubby got upset with me today because he didn’t get any presents from me. First time in 17 years together. I always buy something for him for his Birthday, Valentine’s day, and Christmas. I am the one who buys his clothes, or whatever he needs also.
> 
> While I never, ever get anything from him for Christmas, not just Christmas. My birthday was two weeks ago. Didn’t get anything from him. I had to order and pick up my own food myself that day after work. Even my own birthday cake. Didn’t complain to him since he worked till late.
> His excuse for not buying me presents is that you can buy anything you want, while he can buy anything he wants also, because I am not the only one in charge of the money.
> ...


Not wrong at all.

Why go through the trouble of finding a gift for someone that has never put in the effort to do the same.

Merry Christmas. Make the best of what is left of the weekend.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

SunCMars said:


> That apple that fell off of the tree rolled _properly farther_ from his father.
> The son is your peach.
> 
> Those never punished never feel the need to change.
> ...


My son is so different. I felt bad when he offered me his money that I gave him for Christmas to give them to his dad. He didn’t feel bad for his dad, but for me. He wanted dad to stop fighting with me. 😕
I have mentioned divorce to my son and he is OK with it. He can see how bad his father can be with his short tempered attitude and not just to me but even to him. My hubby knows only to critisize our kids, especially our son because that’s what he does. When my hubby comes home my kids go to their rooms. They don’t want to deal with him. My hubby was never that close to kids and of course he blames me for that. Because the only place my hubby would take our kids when they were little was to clubs and cafes he went to, where people smoke and drink alchohol. No parks or other places for kids. I was a bad person according to him for not allowing him to do that. 🤦‍♀️


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

marcy* said:


> My son is so different. I felt bad when he offered me his money that I gave him for Christmas to give them to his dad. He didn’t feel bad for his dad, but for me. He wanted dad to stop fighting with me. 😕
> I have mentioned divorce to my son and he is OK with it. He can see how bad his father can be with his short tempered attitude and not just to me but even to him. My hubby knows only to critisize our kids, especially our son because that’s what he does. When my hubby comes home my kids go to their rooms. They don’t want to deal with him. My hubby was never that close to their kids and of course he blames me for that. Because the only place my hubby would take our kids when they were little was to clubs and cafes he went to, where people smoke and drink alchohol. No parks or other places for kids.* I was a bad person according to him for not allowing him to do that. *🤦‍♀️


Being someone's bad person can be a good thing.

Since little good is owned by bad folks, they offer what is seen plentiful (to them).

His world and yours are polar opposites.

Leave him, leave your cold polar world, and move to the tropics where warm blooded people (such as you), thrive.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

duplicate


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

marcy* said:


> My son is so different. I felt bad when he offered me his money that I gave him for Christmas to give them to his dad. He didn’t feel bad for his dad, but for me. He wanted dad to stop fighting with me. 😕
> I have mentioned divorce to my son and he is OK with it. He can see how bad his father can be with his short tempered attitude and not just to me but even to him. My hubby knows only to critisize our kids, especially our son because that’s what he does. When my hubby comes home my kids go to their rooms. They don’t want to deal with him. My hubby was never that close to their kids and of course he blames me for that. Because the only place my hubby would take our kids when they were little was to clubs and cafes he went to, where people smoke and drink alchohol. No parks or other places for kids. I was a bad person according to him for not allowing him to do that. 🤦‍♀️


You have a great son.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

marcy* said:


> The only way he would leave the house is by calling the police. He thinks the house is his and really doesn’t get it how law works here in USA. Don’t expect more from a person who has a partiarchal mindset. That’s how he was raised He is too selfish to even think for his kids. Actually he wants to take the kids away from me, especially our daughter because he thinks my “future boyfriends” will abuse her. 🤦‍♀️He is not even a good father. He is a bully. If I go that far, call the police, I know he will do anything to make my life miserable. He has mentioned many times that he would rather end up homeless than pay child support to me. I have been a big help to him all these years. Never saw anything bad from me and still he just want to see me suffer if I leave him. He is a vengeful man.


I don't understand the reason you are trying to decipher the "WHY" of your husband's behaviors - this is who he is and how he is. You shouldn't need any justification for feeling angry and taken advantage of by him, because that is how he's been to you for a long, long time. I wouldn't defend myself to him at all with any explanations - just TELL him, "NOPE. If you don't get me a gift, I don't get you any gifts either"...trying to make him understand, or to stop blaming you are useless wastes of time, because it will NEVER work...and based on all your past posts about him, I think you know this.

If you are going to remain with a man like this, you are going to have to set some boundaries within yourself and with your own thoughts, so that YOU stop second-guessing and blaming yourself for things that are HIS issues. Maybe do some form of the 180 with him so you can spare yourself the emotional damage that you get from remaining in a relationship with a person like this. You can say, "this is the New ME...if you don't like it, you can leave and find someone else".

I wish you could see there is NO reason to stay with someone like him. You would be happier living in a tent with your kids than with him (believe me, I KNOW). Why can't you go back to your home country with your family?


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> I don't understand the reason you are trying to decipher the "WHY" of your husband's behaviors - this is who he is and how he is. You shouldn't need any justification for feeling angry and taken advantage of by him, because that is how he's been to you for a long, long time. I wouldn't defend myself to him at all with any explanations - just TELL him, "NOPE. If you don't get me a gift, I don't get you any gifts either"...trying to make him understand, or to stop blaming you are useless wastes of time, because it will NEVER work...and based on all your past posts about him, I think you know this.
> 
> If you are going to remain with a man like this, you are going to have to set some boundaries within yourself and with your own thoughts, so that YOU stop second-guessing and blaming yourself for things that are HIS issues. Maybe do some form of the 180 with him so you can spare yourself the emotional damage that you get from remaining in a relationship with a person like this. You can say, "this is the New ME...if you don't like it, you can leave and find someone else".
> 
> I wish you could see there is NO reason to stay with someone like him. You would be happier living in a tent with your kids than with him (believe me, I KNOW). Why can't you go back to your home country with your family?


I agree with everything you said. I have changed. When he complains, I just tell him that’s how I am, am not going to change. I can’t make you happy! I just have to make my next move, move away from him.
I can’t go back to my country. I don’t want to go back. I have my life here now, even though I miss my family there a lot. My kids don’t even speak my language. They were born here and are doing good in school. Going back is going to be hard for them since even school system is different there.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

marcy* said:


> I agree with everything you said. I have changed. When he complains, I just tell him that’s how I am, am not going to change. I can’t make you happy! I just have to make my next move, move away from him.
> I can’t go back to my country. I don’t want to go back. I have my life here now, even though I miss my family there a lot. My kids don’t even speak my language. They were born here and are doing good in school. Going back is going to be hard for them since even school system is different there.


GOOD for YOU, then!!
Do you have any family here who can help support you when you finally decide to leave?


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> GOOD for YOU, then!!
> Do you have any family here who can help support you when you finally decide to leave?


If I had any family here, I would have left years ago.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

marcy* said:


> I agree with everything you said. I have changed. When he complains, I just tell him that’s how I am, am not going to change. I can’t make you happy! I just have to make my next move, move away from him.
> I can’t go back to my country. I don’t want to go back. I have my life here now, even though I miss my family there a lot. My kids don’t even speak my language. They were born here and are doing good in school. Going back is going to be hard for them since even school system is different there.


You will be fine. Once you're away from him you'll be free to do different things and go visit your family and socialize and make new friends.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

marcy* said:


> If I had any family here, I would have left years ago.


Well, I have family here, and they were basically NO support or help at all, so I had to handle everything on my own anyway, and I did FINE. It's only a little more challenging, that's all - you cannot just walk away, you have to make a plan.
Ok, cool, make your plan! 

There are TONS of resources available, you just need to figure out where your greatest needs are, and find the resources to help you with that. Look at who you have been living with and what you've been putting up with -- YOU are STRONG!!! It's only hard to take the steps into your new life - living it will be easy for you!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

marcy* said:


> He doesn’t get it. We fought more yesterday. His huge Ego was hurt. 🙄 He was like I can’t believe you left me without present on purpose. I didn’t do it on purpose I just felt tired. We bought many things lately for the house, so I thought he will understand. But I am glad I did leave him without one. All this showed how selfish( I knew anyway) and closeminded he is. He was complaining that since I didn’t buy him anything I don’t love him, I don’t care for him, but he “ loves me” and I shouldn’t expect anything from him.
> He saw me preparing presents for friends, coworkers and my kids teachers and thought he would get one too. I rather give my coworkers than him because I know they will give me something too.


So what did he say when you told him "YOU didn't get one for me, so I didn't get one for you?" How did he defend that HE didn't do anything for YOU?
If he "loves you" then WHY shouldn't YOU expect something from HIM if he expects it from you?
Turn the whole argument back on HIM to show him that HE is the one that caused the issue with absolutely NO regard for you. Loving you by NOT getting you a present? Is he that daft?

I just caught up and saw that he said "you should just buy yourself a present" -- you should have told him RIGHT THEN that he should have done the same, and then he could stop whining like a little girl. He is just being ridiculous. Ignore him, get YOUR life together, and try doing the 180 -- minimal interaction with him.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

jlg07 said:


> So what did he say when you told him "YOU didn't get one for me, so I didn't get one for you?" How did he defend that HE didn't do anything for YOU?
> If he "loves you" then WHY shouldn't YOU expect something from HIM if he expects it from you?
> Turn the whole argument back on HIM to show him that HE is the one that caused the issue with absolutely NO regard for you. Loving you by NOT getting you a present? Is he that daft?
> 
> I just caught up and saw that he said "you should just buy yourself a present" -- you should have told him RIGHT THEN that he should have done the same, and then he could stop whining like a little girl. He is just being ridiculous. Ignore him, get YOUR life together, and try doing the 180 -- minimal interaction with him.


I told him that you can buy youself something too, or we just stop expecting presents for each other since you are not good with buying them, but he can’t accept that, he mentioned divorce many times. 
And after all that fight he made me look like I was the bad one, like I caused all that fight, like I was asking for a divorce, not him.” Make up your mind,” he said, “ what do you want!” 🤦‍♀️ I just stopped talking. Talking to him is like talking to the wall.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

marcy* said:


> I told him that you can buy youself something too, or we just stop expecting presents for each other since you are not good with buying them, but he can’t accept that, he mentioned divorce many times.
> And after all that fight he made me look like I was the bad one, like I caused all that fight, like I was asking for a divorce, not him.” Make up your mind,” he said, “ what do you want!” 🤦‍♀️ I just stopped talking. Talking to him is like talking to the wall.


Well then, unfortunately you know your answer. He is a man-child and seems to refuse to grow up. VERY sorry you and your son are having to deal with this.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

jlg07 said:


> Well then, unfortunately you know your answer. He is a man-child and seems to refuse to grow up. VERY sorry you and your son are having to deal with this.


Yes that’s how I feel like I married a child even though he is six years older than me. And than he acts like what’s wrong with you, why you don’t want to have sex with me. You probably have someone else. I don’t even want him to touch me anymore.😕


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

marcy* said:


> I told him that you can buy youself something too, or we just stop expecting presents for each other since you are not good with buying them, but he can’t accept that, he mentioned divorce many times.
> And after all that fight he made me look like I was the bad one, like I caused all that fight, like I was asking for a divorce, not him.” Make up your mind,” he said, “ what do you want!” 🤦‍♀️ I just stopped talking. Talking to him is like talking to the wall.


UGH!!! This sounds like my STBX - trying to communicate with him is like trying to dig through a brick wall with my bare hands...it's grueling, painful, and pointless.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

marcy* said:


> Make up your mind,” he said, “ what do you want!”


Yeah, what DO you want? That sounds like the only rational thing this jackass has said thus far.



marcy* said:


> Didn’t want to end up in shelters with my kids.


I think that would be preferable to living with a jerk who threatens to burn down the house if you leave. I'd rather live in some crappy shelter than with a man who would manipulate me with threats.

I just wish you would get really angry. Angry enough to tell this ass to go pound sand.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> I just wish you would get really angry. Angry enough to tell this ass to go pound sand.


The problem is that living in a situation/relationship where your needs are being ignored (or outright criticized), where you keep lowering your expectations in order to keep the peace or because you are being manipulated into thinking you are expecting something unreasonable, WEAKENS your spirit and willpower and drive to be happy and fulfilled.

I think constantly being refused something you need forces you to constantly question yourself and judge yourself, and if you are always made to feel that YOU are the one who is asking too much, the hopelessness is draining because your mind tries to shut down your desire for things that aren't going to be acceptable or given...and that spills into every area of your life...including the ability to make the choice to leave your unhappy situation/relationship.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Sorry, @LisaDiane, but I don't agree. People generally remain stuck in crappy relationships because they are bogged down in "What if?" thinking. "What if he comes after me with a gun?" "What if I end up in the streets living in a refrigerator box?" "What if I end up starving to death?" And on and on it goes.

I got out of a living hell. Again, sorry, but I don't buy into your theory. The OP is being manipulated by a jerk. She KNOWS he's a jerk. She is staying because it's her choice to stay. If someone is crapping all over me, I don't have to question myself by thinking, "I wonder if it's as bad as I think?" Because it's probably even worse than that. JMO.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> Sorry, @LisaDiane, but I don't agree. People generally remain stuck in crappy relationships because they are bogged down in "What if?" thinking. "What if he comes after me with a gun?" "What if I end up in the streets living in a refrigerator box?" "What if I end up starving to death?" And on and on it goes.
> 
> I got out of a living hell. Again, sorry, but I don't buy into your theory. The OP is being manipulated by a jerk. She KNOWS he's a jerk. She is staying because it's her choice to stay. If someone is crapping all over me, I don't have to question myself by thinking, "I wonder if it's as bad as I think?" Because it's probably even worse than that. JMO.


Well, all I can describe is what I have been through and what I've seen SOME people go through (admittedly not all!)...what I described happened to me first-hand with my STBX for the past 3 years at least. And I have certainly seen people go through things the way you describe as well!
With my first husband, it was much more dramatic and I didn't have any care about lowering my expectations OR what-ifs, I left the first chance I got!!

I see what you are saying, but I wasn't implying that I see myself (or anyone else going through the same) as any kind of "victim" of their situation - just that they might not even see how bad things really are because of their denial and their general sense of feeling dissatisfied but questioning if the problem could really be THEM. 

But I definitely believe YOU have seen situations and relationships play out differently, and the way YOU described!!


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

@LisaDiane - Yes, I see what you are saying. But do you think sometimes people remain in denial regarding just how bad their relationship really is because they don't know how to take charge of their own happiness? I had to figure out that I was responsible for whether or not I wanted to be happy. I don't necessarily think people are in a victim role, per se, by staying. But I think most people are victimizing themselves by not owning what is theirs to own. The thing about a bad relationship is, both parties are contributing something to making it bad. In my situation, I realized as long as I did nothing more than complain and doubt myself, I was contributing to refusing to take charge of my life and make it better.

So there is a degree of victim mentality at play when anyone remains stuck. But getting unstuck is worth the challenges. At one point, I lived in a 200 square foot room over a horse barn. The property owner/landlord called it a "studio apartment." More like one step below dump. But it was so rewarding to take charge of my life and start planning how I could have a better life.

Far too many people on TAM who remain stuck in sexless marriages, emotionally empty marriages, marriages where neither party has anything in common with the other party. And all because they won't trade in their misery for the CHALLENGE of taking charge of their own happiness. JMO.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

marcy* said:


> It doesn’t suprise me because he loves drama and he is a very selfish man, but still don’t get it.


You "get it" perfectly and concisely He's a child, not a man.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Sometimes it is just hard to figure out HOW to get out, what to do, where to go, HOW to make it all happen. 

I remember a time, way back when I had 5 kids under the age of 6....and I couldn't figure it out. I did the math, every which way. I included any "help" I could get, like free day care, etc....and I still couldn't afford it. I ended up doing a sort of 180, before I knew what that was. I had to make the best of what I had, and where I was because I couldn't figure out how to do it on my own. It's all nice when people say, "He has to pay child support" ...no he doesn't. He can just not pay. And if you KNOW he won't help, you have to make that part of the equation. 

I ended up going to college while the kids were in school, I became a teacher because I wouldn't need day care. Probably about ten years later, I was still doing the math....trying to figure out HOW. I was getting closer, but I wasn't miserable. I had a life with kids, work, friends, etc.... in spite of him. I went to marriage counseling without him, because he said "WE" don't have a problem, only I did. The counselor gave me some good advice....sort of what you see here on TAM. She said, although you feel powerless because he won't contribute to the relationship, and because you feel you aren't heard (or even considered)...YOU have the power. YOU have the power to figure out what you will do. When you will do it, how you can do it. YOU can figure it out, taking into consideration that he won't be helpful. She suggested that I create a timeline in my mind. I did...I set it at one year. I thought hard during that time about HOW to leave with kids, knowing he is the kind of man who would not pay child support. 

After six months, he left. No fights, no arguments (I had quit arguing by then). He SNUCK out. It took me three days to figure out that he was actually gone! Funny in hindsight, but I was sooooo angry at the time. I had a mantra though.... "F*** you, and THANK you". I got my brother to move in to help with the bills, and another single mom with two kids. It was weird, and busy....AND TOTALLY WORTH IT. 

Peace descended over the house. There was no more BS, no more walking on egg shells, no more guessing what he will do or what he wanted. Sometimes he paid child support, (not court ordered) and sometimes he didn't....and he ALWAYS tried to negotiate. 

It was the best thing that ever happened to me. I figured out how to do it, when I had to. I made changes when I could, or when I needed to. I had friends and family for emotional support. 

And I ended up meeting a man who is wonderful to me and my now grown kids. We just celebrated our 10 year anniversary. Our families blended well, and we just got a photo on Christmas day of 13 of our grandkids squished together on the couch!  

It is scary. You KNOW what you should do. You know it can be done. You KNOW other people have done it. You just have to figure out HOW. It will be worth it. Figure out what else you need to do, besides saving money. Get more schooling? See an attorney....just to see what they say and give you some knowledge of how it could work. 

You can do it. Figure it out.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

The tough thing about forums, is you really rarely get the entire story....All we can do is just accept that a scenario is what it is, while offering no background/lead up to the story -and no "other side"...Something tells me this isn't about the forgotten Christmas gifts...I didn't read all posts, but I did catch that there is no sex happening...

I dunno....it's just very hard to believe someone(especially a man-most of us are thrilled to not get anything, as it's one less reciprocation to have to deal with)....would get that jerked off over the failure of to get a Christmas gift...I am thinking this is just a trigger point for a bigger issue with the relationship....and we won't probably ever know the real story...

I


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

hamadryad said:


> The tough thing about forums, is you really rarely get the entire story....All we can do is just accept that a scenario is what it is, while offering no background/lead up to the story -and no "other side"...Something tells me this isn't about the forgotten Christmas gifts...I didn't read all posts, but I did catch that there is no sex happening...
> 
> I dunno....it's just very hard to believe someone(especially a man-most of us are thrilled to not get anything, as it's one less reciprocation to have to deal with)....would get that jerked off over the failure of to get a Christmas gift...I am thinking this is just a trigger point for a bigger issue with the relationship....and we won't probably ever know the real story...
> 
> I


You want the real story? Believe me the “real story” is worse than what you have read so far. I wasn’t expecting him to make such a big deal about not getting present, since he never gave me one for Christmas, but he did. My hubby fights over everything that upsets him, so...


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

marcy* said:


> You want the real story? Believe me the “real story” is worse than what you have read so far. I wasn’t expecting him to make such a big deal about not getting present, since he never gave me one for Christmas, but he did. My hubby fights over everything that upsets him, so...



Well....then you kinda made my point then....(shrug)...

There is obviously more to this than just the Christmas gift....sounds like a lot more.....

Good luck..


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

hamadryad said:


> Well....then you kinda made my point then....(shrug)...
> 
> There is obviously more to this than just the Christmas gift....sounds like a lot more.....
> 
> Good luck..


If you have read my posts you will know there is more to the story. He is childish, selfish, and has a short temper. I have been 17 years with him and it doesn’t take much to upset him. Only two weeks ago, he came angry home( because something didn’t go his way at work) and all he did fought with me and kids. I tried to avoid him, but it was impossible. Everything irritates him when he is angry, I mean. The way we walk, talk, the way we sit, why is this here, there, why internet is slow, and he will come after you and annoy you even if you try to stay away from him. And he is really loud. I wonder if neighbors can hear him. They probably do.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

marcy* said:


> If you have read my posts you will know there is more to the story. He is childish, selfish, and has a short temper. I have been 17 years with him and it doesn’t take much to upset him. Only two weeks ago, he came angry home( because something didn’t go his way at work) and all he did fought with me and kids. I tried to avoid him, but it was impossible. Everything irritates him when he is angry, I mean. The way we walk, talk, the way we sit, why is this here, there, why internet is slow, and he will come after you and annoy you even if you try to stay away from him. And he is really loud. I wonder if neighbors can hear him. They probably do.



Most people aren't just innately angry.....Do you have any idea what is making him so angry, resentful, etc?? Have you been to or suggested counseling??

Among many other stimuli, i can tell you for sure that if he's not getting regular sex, he will probably get angry over time....Most men would...That's not to say it's your job to be compliant when he's not pleasant to be around, but it's important that if you want to try to keep this going, to try to find out what is really bothering him... Otherwise why stay in this situation for so long if it's as bad as you say?

Guys are notorious for not expressing feelings and just bottling them up in the form of anger and other unpleasant behavior...Trying to figure out why he's upset about not getting a Christmas gift is pointless...I think you are probably aware(or at least I would hope) that it's the least of your/his issues...


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

hamadryad said:


> Most people aren't just innately angry.....Do you have any idea what is making him so angry, resentful, etc?? Have you been to or suggested counseling??
> 
> Among many other stimuli, i can tell you for sure that if he's not getting regular sex, he will probably get angry over time....Most men would...That's not to say it's your job to be compliant when he's not pleasant to be around, but it's important that if you want to try to keep this going, to try to find out what is really bothering him... Otherwise why stay in this situation for so long if it's as bad as you say?
> 
> Guys are notorious for not expressing feelings and just bottling them up in the form of anger and other unpleasant behavior...Trying to figure out why he's upset about not getting a Christmas gift is pointless...I think you are probably aware(or at least I would hope) that it's the least of your/his issues...


He has been like this all his life, I just married him too soon( because of given circumstances). His mom and his brothers are the same. They all have same problems in their families. Same anger, same personality, same drama. His younger brother has been married only for three years and his wife is thinking divorce. When his wife openes up to me, everything she says sounds so familiar, like we married same person. The only difference that I have seen between them is that my hubby does chores, cooks, he doesn’t,


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

marcy* said:


> The only way he would leave the house is by calling the police. He thinks the house is his and really doesn’t get it how law works here in USA. Don’t expect more from a person who has a partiarchal mindset. That’s how he was raised He is too selfish to even think for his kids. Actually he wants to take the kids away from me, especially our daughter because he thinks my “future boyfriends” will abuse her. 🤦‍♀️He is not even a good father. He is a bully. If I go that far, call the police, I know he will do anything to make my life miserable. He has mentioned many times that he would rather end up homeless than pay child support to me. I have been a big help to him all these years. Never saw anything bad from me and still he just want to see me suffer if I leave him. He is a vengeful man.


This is all the more reason to leave. This is not a good environment for the kids. Just have plenty of documentation of behavior. If you can get video of him making the two contradictory points, even better. Or video of other problems. But you also have witnesses as to his behavior. His threat of homelessness is probably a threat, but you may still have to fight to get any money from him.

Something to keep in mind. As bad as he is to you, (and I am playing off of the typical here realizing he could be an exception) he is still their father and presumably loves them. Unless you are sure there is abuse there, don't use the kids as a bargaining tool, or a weapon. If he does, that is just more evidence against him. But in the end, you have to do what is best for you and your kids. And if being in a shelter for a while is what's best, to get them away from him, if such is needed, then do so.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

marcy* said:


> Of course he expects me to buy my own presents. We have a joint bank account we both use. He thinks that me having access to that money is more than enough. I don’t mind buying myself presents since we have very different tastes but still I would never say no or complain, if he buys me something, ...anything.


DO you have your own account? If not, get one. I have been married for over 2 decades and I still have a separate account, and my spouses have their accounts. None of us will ever be at the mercy of another holding their account hostage.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

marcy* said:


> I agree with everything you said. I have changed. When he complains, I just tell him that’s how I am, am not going to change. I can’t make you happy! I just have to make my next move, move away from him.
> I can’t go back to my country. I don’t want to go back. I have my life here now, even though I miss my family there a lot. My kids don’t even speak my language. They were born here and are doing good in school. Going back is going to be hard for them since even school system is different there.


Are you a full citizen? He's not holding your origins over your head as threat is he?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

marcy* said:


> He has been like this all his life, I just married him too soon( because of given circumstances). His mom and his brothers are the same. They all have same problems in their families. Same anger, same personality, same drama. His younger brother has been married only for three years and his wife is thinking divorce. When his wife openes up to me, everything she says sounds so familiar, like we married same person. The only difference that I have seen between them is that my hubby does chores, cooks, he doesn’t,


That might be part of your plan then. Maybe you and her need to try to leave together and move in together. Naturally, both husbands will probably accuse you two of an affair, but getting away will be worth that I think. But if you two can support each other emotionally and financially until you both can get fully on your feet, it might be better than leaving on your own. Plus both can witness for the other in any divorce proceedings. Because it does sound like he will fight it.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

maquiscat said:


> That might be part of your plan then. Maybe you and her need to try to leave together and move in together. Naturally, both husbands will probably accuse you two of an affair, but getting away will be worth that I think. But if you two can support each other emotionally and financially until you both can get fully on your feet, it might be better than leaving on your own. Plus both can witness for the other in any divorce proceedings. Because it does sound like he will fight it.


I never met her in person and she lives in different country, not here.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

maquiscat said:


> Are you a full citizen? He's not holding your origins over your head as threat is he?


He came to USA because he married me. We both citizens. We are from same country.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

marcy* said:


> I never met her in person and she lives in different country, not here.


AH. The way you wrote it, it seemed like you had been talking at family gatherings or something. The principle is still the same. If you know of someone who is in a similar situation, then it might help by leaving together.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

So you've wasted 17 years tolerating abuse from this douche bag. I'd suggest you start putting together a proactive program to leave. Or waste another 17 years. Your life. Your choice.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

What have you done to actually make plans to leave? What steps can you secretly start taking?

Have you found any free resources related to getting out? Attorneys will generally meet with you briefly for free so you can assess whether you want to hire them, and in talking with one she or he might be able to point you to some free resources, legal-related and otherwise.

There is a very nice “shelter” in my city where each woman with her kids have their own secure and pleasant apartment for awhile, along with guidance and support, as they get established on a path of independence. Maybe there is something like that near you.

How old are your kids? In my jurisdiction kids 14 and older get to have a say (to the court) about what custody arrangements will be.

Has he ever been physically abusive to you or your kids?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In the first several years of my marriage, my husband did not get me presents for any occasion. I always got him presents for holidays.. his birthday, XMas, father's day, etc. In the days leading up to his birthday or a holiday he'd start telling me what he wanted. It got to be so rediculous.

So, finally I got smart. One year he kept telling me days before his birthday what he wanted (as usual). I got him nothing. When his birthday came around, I ignored it. No present, no cake, nothing. I did not even remind the children (my son & his 2 children) that it was his birthday. Early evening he finally came to me and asked me if I forgot that it was his birthday. He was clearly hurt. I told him that no, I had not forgotten his birthday. But I had come to the conclusion that I have been very unfair to him. Since he never got me any presents or planned anything for my birthday, etc., that he did not agree with doing all. I must have mad him feel badly for the years that I got him presents, a b-day cake, etc. It was insensitive of me to put that guilt on him. He walked away very quietly. Since that day, he has always given me presents for my b-day, holidays, etc. He even cooks me a birthday dinner and has a cake. 

Once he started giving me presents and acknowledging things like b-day, valentine's day, etc. I resumed getting him presents.

Just a thought.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> In the first several years of my marriage, my husband did not get me presents for any occasion. I always got him presents for holidays.. his birthday, XMas, father's day, etc. In the days leading up to his birthday or a holiday he'd start telling me what he wanted. It got to be so rediculous.
> 
> So, finally I got smart. One year he kept telling me days before his birthday what he wanted (as usual). I got him nothing. When his birthday came around, I ignored it. No present, no cake, nothing. I did not even remind the children (my son & his 2 children) that it was his birthday. Early evening he finally came to me and asked me if I forgot that it was his birthday. He was clearly hurt. I told him that no, I had not forgotten his birthday. But I had come to the conclusion that I have been very unfair to him. Since he never got me any presents or planned anything for my birthday, etc., that he did not agree with doing all. I must have mad him feel badly for the years that I got him presents, a b-day cake, etc. It was insensitive of me to put that guilt on him. He walked away very quietly. Since that day, he has always given me presents for my b-day, holidays, etc. He even cooks me a birthday dinner and has a cake.
> 
> ...


Didn't you divorce that guy like a decade ago?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Didn't you divorce that guy like a decade ago?


Yea I divorced him a long time ago. 

But, he did start giving me presents once I did what I describe here and that continued for several years until the divorce.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> In the first several years of my marriage, my husband did not get me presents for any occasion. I always got him presents for holidays.. his birthday, XMas, father's day, etc. In the days leading up to his birthday or a holiday he'd start telling me what he wanted. It got to be so rediculous.
> 
> So, finally I got smart. One year he kept telling me days before his birthday what he wanted (as usual). I got him nothing. When his birthday came around, I ignored it. No present, no cake, nothing. I did not even remind the children (my son & his 2 children) that it was his birthday. Early evening he finally came to me and asked me if I forgot that it was his birthday. He was clearly hurt. I told him that no, I had not forgotten his birthday. But I had come to the conclusion that I have been very unfair to him. Since he never got me any presents or planned anything for my birthday, etc., that he did not agree with doing all. I must have mad him feel badly for the years that I got him presents, a b-day cake, etc. It was insensitive of me to put that guilt on him. He walked away very quietly. Since that day, he has always given me presents for my b-day, holidays, etc. He even cooks me a birthday dinner and has a cake.
> 
> ...


Well played!


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> In the first several years of my marriage, my husband did not get me presents for any occasion. I always got him presents for holidays.. his birthday, XMas, father's day, etc. In the days leading up to his birthday or a holiday he'd start telling me what he wanted. It got to be so rediculous.
> 
> So, finally I got smart. One year he kept telling me days before his birthday what he wanted (as usual). I got him nothing. When his birthday came around, I ignored it. No present, no cake, nothing. I did not even remind the children (my son & his 2 children) that it was his birthday. Early evening he finally came to me and asked me if I forgot that it was his birthday. He was clearly hurt. I told him that no, I had not forgotten his birthday. But I had come to the conclusion that I have been very unfair to him. Since he never got me any presents or planned anything for my birthday, etc., that he did not agree with doing all. I must have mad him feel badly for the years that I got him presents, a b-day cake, etc. It was insensitive of me to put that guilt on him. He walked away very quietly. Since that day, he has always given me presents for my b-day, holidays, etc. He even cooks me a birthday dinner and has a cake.
> 
> ...


I said to him same thing, and he threatened me with divorce. Leave the house, it’s my house, and blahblah. He still thinks that he doesn’t have to give me anything since I can buy myself anything. 🤦‍♀️
Yesterday he was trying to be nice like nothing happened, never apologized. Behaved same way as he does after a fight caused by him. Acts like it never happened. 🤦‍♀️ He has promised to buy me presents before, but never did. I remember when he promised me a huge diamond ring once. “Oh when you turn 30 I will buy you a huge diamond ring.” And he would say that often. Well I got nothing. He made many other promises. I gave up expecting from him anything.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

marcy* said:


> Behaved same way as he does after a fight caused by him. Acts like it never happened. 🤦‍♀️ He has promised to buy me presents before, but never did.


Yeah, we get it. You've established, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your husband is a total jerk.

So what are you going to do about it? Nothing changes if nothing changes.


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