# Unhappy marriage. What would you do?



## jdjd (Jun 4, 2017)

My wife and I have been together for 25+ years (married 20). We have 2 children, ages 15 and 11. The past 10 have been rocky. We've been to rounds of couples therapy twice at my asking. While I was all-in, she seemed to do only the minimum of what was asked of her. After this last round, she now spends far more time with the kids (good!). But, the things we were working on for us (finances, couple time, communication) are back to their old ways.

I think we fell into a bit of a codependent (me)/narcissist (her) relationship from the start. However, in recent years, I've been standing up for myself and children. I typically work hard at everything I do. I make a decent salary, stay fit, eat healthy, pay the bills, and do more than half the house work. I'm probably a bit of a perfectionist. Advocating for myself is a weak point that I continue to improve.

She can be a lot of fun and people are naturally drawn to her. It's a mixed bag at home. She often has fits of negativity (harsh words; pouting) which is quite unpleasant to be around. My oldest lets it roll off; it hurts my youngest. She rarely pays for anything. She used to be athletic like me, but now spends 3 - 8 hours every day watching TV, movies, and looking at her phone. She eats a fair amount of junk food and has now put on about 50 lbs. She leans more toward doing the minimum while expecting perfection. She acts like there's nothing wrong with our relationship.

Communication is horrible between us. It typically is just logistics, and I'm partly to blame. When I do reach out to her, she usually responds "Can we do this later?" I schedule a time and ask her to get me when she's ready, but never hear from her about it again. When I do pin her down and state what I want, she seems to be on board, but then does whatever she wants and tries to hide it from me.

Finances drive me crazy. I just want to the two of us to sit down and agree on priorities. I've tried to set up many budgets with her over the years, but she will not put any effort into it. If she wants something, she just buys it.

Sex used to range from adequate to good. As of last year, she stopped having a desire to have sex. I finally got tired of asking -- even when not rejected, it was clear she wasn't into it. This and the fact that she's put on so much weight has all but killed my desire to have sex with her. I often think about other women, but I know that will create an even bigger mess.

Again, there's little communication about the kids. I care about a healthy diet and to not spoil them with tons of toys (so many they can barely get into their rooms). She seems to agree when we talk, but then I find out later that she goes ahead sneaks a bunch of junk food and toys to them. At one point, she was telling the kids to keep it secret from me (they would confess this to me when the guilt was too much). At Christmas, we discuss what to get the kids. Then, on the day, she pulls out more gifts and makes it obvious they are from her.

What would you do?
- Stick it out until the kids are out of the house? I thought this was best but my oldest child is now talking to me about dating, and I'm starting to reconsider the example I'm setting. Plus, that's a lot of lost time in our short lives.

- More couples therapy? I want her to initiate it; she has to be all-in.

- Divorce? I assume we would split custody. Being a dad is my favorite thing, and I fear I won't always be able to be there for my children.

- Something else?

Thank you for reading, and please feel free to ask questions.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Let her know the depth of your unhappiness and that you are seriously thinking of divorce, and ask if she will have some more long-term therapy where she makes a real long-term effort this time. I think that her reaction and answer will tell you what you need to know, but remember that your children are still young and will be devastated if you go. 
Please don't just leave without giving her another chance and warning.I have seen peoples lives devasted by one spouse leaving with no warning, some had complete breakdowns and were suicidal for a long time.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

My opinion is life is way too short to deal with this much unhappiness. You can want and hope she will go back to the "old her" but that is a decision and course of action only she can take. The fact that she won't participate in couples counseling speaks volumes on the priority of the marriage. You have invested 25 years with her which is a ton of history. You also can't get those years back and every day you spend from here on out unhappy is your decision. You don't get that time back either.


----------



## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

It sounds like your wife doesn't work outside the home. Does she do all the household chores, prepare meals, etc.? Set up a budget, you pay all the pills and give your wife money for food and no more. If she spends it on frivolous things or things just for her, she doesn't get anything to eat. Then you buy the food yourself and your wife doesn't get any money.

Tell her she has to be all in for MC or the marriage is over but *YOU* are not leaving the house and neither are your kids. Speak to several shark-like divorce attorney (if they don't do the free initial consultation, skip them) and find out your rights and responsibilities. Basically, two card her.

IamSomebody


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I was at the 24 year mark when I'd had enough, and left. Best decision I've ever made! My son was 13, and he came through it well - we were dedicated coparents. He also go to see what a happy, healthy relationship is like, which was an important influence for him later in his own relationship. Anyway, you've tried, and she's been indifferent. Time to leave.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

When making concrete you need Portland cement, aggregate and water. Roughly, 15%,75%,10% respectively.

After mixing these ingredients thoroughly you take a sample of it and give it a slump test. This indicates stiffness and work-ability.

After 20 years, or so, your wife failed the test. When Abram's Frustrum was pried off her plump form, she collapsed and slumped on the couch. 

Concrete cannot be repaired. It must be smashed up and recycled into Urbanite and put in some other saps driveway. 

You need a new drive path....on the way to a happy life with a new Momma.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

There is no good or convenient time to get divorced. It actually gets more complicated as the kids get older. In addition, you get older. Being older means your retirement finances take a bigger hit, and your dating prospects diminish. Iow, there is no time like the present to make a big change, including divorce.

Since she has rejected MC and rejects any serious attempts at even understanding the situation, I don't see how you effect the kinds of changes you want in your marriage. It sounds like she is simply a very different kind of person than who you need for a spouse.

The way to deal with this is boundaries, and to have real consequences which you will enforce. At this point, there are no low consequence boundaries. You've already tried the MC, you've tried initiating sex, etc. I think you communicate your unhappiness and set a relevant boundary. Something like you will not remain in a loveless, passionless, sexless, sterile marriage. This boundary then allows her to choose to wake up and make a strong effort. Or, she can (and probably will) essentially ignore it. If she is a bit scared, she'll throw a little sex at you and have a few not too difficult conversations. I call this D- work. It is just enough not to be a failure. Just enough to keep you on the hook. When you change the dynamics sufficiently, she will be more scared and will realize she needs to do A+ work to keep you from leaving. Usually it takes filing for divorce to elicit that A+ work.

The question is do you feel you've made a solid and good faith effort at making this a good marriage for both of you? If so, you've done your duty and you can go confidently to divorce knowing it is the right thing.

Your kids are watching. They are learning. They will recreate in their own relationships what they see in your marriage. Divorce can be a positive lesson for them. Yes, divorce is unpleasant for the kids, and ideally they would live with parents who are still married and have a great marriage. In terms of the kids' perspective, I think you need to balance the bad lessons they are learning against the difficulty of seeing you divorce. My opinion is kids are a tie breaker in the divorce decision. If you could otherwise decide to divorce or stay based on a coin toss, then you stay if there are kids. Your marriage is either acceptable or it is not. If it is not, you have every right and obligation to leave it if your spouse is not making a good faith effort.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

It's time to give her notice and have a come to Jesus talk. You need to set a timeline. Give her 6 months, 12/31/2017. 2018 will be your year, you will find your happiness again, with her or without her. Tell her this. 

Partners are replaceable. There is no such thing as soul mates.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> It's time to give her notice and have a come to Jesus talk. You need to set a timeline. Give her 6 months, 12/31/2017. 2018 will be your year, you will find your happiness again, with her or without her. Tell her this.
> 
> Partners are replaceable. There is no such thing as soul mates.


I don't agree. I know many couples who are soulmates, us included.


----------



## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

As far as divorce goes, your kids are old enough to consider a few things:

1) They are going to be spending less time with you anyway

2) They can communicate with you via various means

3) They are going to eventually leave the nest

So, given those circumstances, consider getting out now (if that is your best option) so you can work on YOUR tomorrow. Don't just sit around in this agony if you know it isn't going to get better.


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

jdjd said:


> My wife and I have been together for 25+ years (married 20). We have 2 children, ages 15 and 11. The past 10 have been rocky. We've been to rounds of couples therapy twice at my asking. While I was all-in, she seemed to do only the minimum of what was asked of her. After this last round, she now spends far more time with the kids (good!). But, the things we were working on for us (finances, couple time, communication) are back to their old ways.
> 
> I think we fell into a bit of a codependent (me)/narcissist (her) relationship from the start. However, in recent years, I've been standing up for myself and children. I typically work hard at everything I do. I make a decent salary, stay fit, eat healthy, pay the bills, and do more than half the house work. I'm probably a bit of a perfectionist. Advocating for myself is a weak point that I continue to improve.
> 
> ...


----------



## jdjd (Jun 4, 2017)

Jessica, this was tough to read. You bring up some tough questions. Thank you for replying -- you bring up an angle I wasn't considering. You are correct about it sounding negative. I have a fair amount of resentment and it is currently hard for me to see my wife's positive traits at the moment.

What am I unhappy about? You are correct that she hasn't been diagnosed with NPD, nor do I think she's that extreme. I only meant that we tend toward that dynamic. I'm unhappy that we can't seem to talk about anything important. I want to hear her objections -- I know I'm far from perfect. I look forward to workout on compromises and making sacrifices that we both can live with. It is hard when we sit down, she says things are cool, then I found out later she's been doing her own thing anyway. For example, I pay 95+% of the bills, college funds, and retirement. She said it would be nice to go on a couple's vacation. I agreed, but I didn't have any money left over. We talked (with the MC) and agreed she would save for the couple's trip with her new part time job (Paris was the plan). Well, it's been more than a year later, and she hasn't saved any money.

I like your ideas about her being unhappy with the marriage and MC not being for her. Something worth considering.


----------



## lisamaree (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm not a psychiatrist or anything but I would guess your wife is experiencing some depression. Depression can cause someone to withdraw, even just partially, can cause a lack of interest, frivolous spending, and an inability to commit to promises or goals. Depression can be caused by experiences, or it can just be biological (and compounded by experiences). 

I would try to invigorate your bond with her by doing more together, have a conversation with her about something positive. Perhaps you already do some of these things, I'm not sure by your post. But try not to have every interaction (or even most interactions) with her be something you don't like about your marriage, her, the kids, or the house. I'm just getting the feeling that you may be also projecting some negativity by a few comments you have made here (i.e. saying you are a perfectionist) onto your wife and it may be making her feel inadequate. Try to make her feel like you are on her side, it's not you vs. her.

Marriage counseling doesn't help everyone, or even most people. If you feel you can improve yourself, take steps to do that. If bettering yourself and the bond with your wife doesn't seem to help then I would urge your wife to get help - because you love her and care for her, and not because of your marriage alone but for her.

That's at least what I would do before ever considering divorce.


----------



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

My wife opted for ethical non-monogamy. We both agree that if we had tried to be monogamous, we would have divorced long ago. We are married for 44 years so we must be doing something right. All too often I’ve seen how the whole relationship lockdown breeds an almost viral tendency to take the other person for granted, to have huge expectations, and to deliver this all from a sense of duty and obligation — without a thank you! You end up thinking of yourself as half of a couple rather than individuals with divergent needs and wants which no two people can fulfill. These days more and more married couples are looking into some form of non-monogamy. Think of it this way, your marriage is heading for divorce so trying out non-monogamy in an ethical way. at worst will end up the same if you do not try it. At least you have a chance if you consider it. It is not going to work if your marriage is not strong. It will only make problems worse since it requires a lot of trust and communication. It seems from your post that you two are lacking in good communication skills. 

I can go into a whole history of mankind, why monogamy is not natural and why it ends up causing the problems that you have. You can form your own opinion but non monogamy worked for us over 44 years and my wife's best friend for almost 30. Perhaps the differences are that we do not have monetary problems as I make a good salary and live modestly. We also have no kids. We essentially got rid of the three biggest things that cause divorce, cheating, money and the stress of raising kids. 

Here are some good articles from mainstream media. Things are changing in today's marriages. Stop to think how crazy we all are for entering into a lifetime contract called marriage, knowing that it has a 50/50 chance of failing. Would you buy a car with those odds. Of course when we are all in the throes of Romantic love we are certain that we will make it but half of us will be wrong. Many are surprised how my wife and I handled non monogamy, finding others to fulfill what we could not fulfill for each other and still keep our marriage and each other above all else in an atmosphere where there was no sneaking around and certain rules to follow. We each had a veto of the other's partners for instance. Anyway, my way of marriage is not for everyone, not even for a few.  What I see very often is that couples rather cheat in the framework of a monogamous marriage than try a different type of marriage. It is like going down with the ship because you do not like the looks of a nearby ship you can find safety in.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201310/the-curious-couples-guide-occasional-non-monogamy

Rethinking monogamy today - CNN.com

https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-25823/how-an-extramarital-affair-could-save-your-marriage.html

Within these articles you will find elements that my wife and I put into effect or at least tried. Not everything worked for us but luckily we are secure in ourselves and do not fear losing each other. These are the two elements that form jealousy. It als requires that you see sex as just sex and that like in a family, you both can love others at the same time but put your spouse first. After trying a few things we opted for a poly triad with a long time friend who we treated as family anyway. She was able to provide me the intellectual discussion I could never have with my wife. She did not accept beliefs as fact no matter how outlandish they sounds. She understood the Psychology of sex and tried all of my fetishes. With my wife she provided female companionship and someone who thinks with their emotions. Together we provided our girlfriend with the unconditional love that her parents never gave her. Even her siblings are cold due to their upbringing. It was a perfect combination of three people who together fulfilled all of our needs. It lasted for 30 years until I was transferred out of State. It has been a wonderful marriage with a lot of love and fun.


----------



## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Yeah, opening up a marriage that isn't on solid ground sounds like a wonderful idea.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

eric1 said:


> Yeah, opening up a marriage that isn't on solid ground sounds like a wonderful idea.


Open marriage for these two souls?

Well, in foresight, er, foreskin sight :surprise:

It would solve their problems:

Trapdoor opens for him.....down he goes. Neck snapped, the marriage yoke slips off......

For his wife? No solid ground? A slow death. Her sinking into a quicksand that takes it's time. Converting her from Ice to Hot water to Steam to no Esteem.

Problem solved....original participants gone. Uncle Lucifer very happy >

Moral? One size dissolution does not fit all....
.........................................................................................................................................................
I needed to check my Archives. I needed to bore-sight Vinny Dee's solution.

I went out in my backyard, to my 'canons' on the cliff. I looked inside the South guns barrel; inside, near the end, was written: Complicit Absolution.

Nope. Won't work with this couple's failure to couple...... under the sheets, failure to thrive.

OP needs to make a decision. Is the little head more important than sitting at the head of the table with his family? 

I make no judgements here.....hear?

Just Sayin'


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

@Jessica38, he cannot just "turn it around" on his own. Fixing a marriage takes both people willing to make the effort and take the time. It sounds like jdjd is the only one really interested here, wife pays a little lip service but sounds completely uninterested to me. If she wasnt interested in following the advice of the MC, she most likely will not be willing to read any of the books we normally recommend either, because that means putting forth effort. 
@jdjd, she does sound like she may be depressed, I agree with the poster who mentioned that. Has she ever spoken with a doctor about that possibility or been on meds?


----------



## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> @Jessica38, he cannot just "turn it around" on his own. Fixing a marriage takes both people willing to make the effort and take the time. It sounds like jdjd is the only one really interested here, wife pays a little lip service but sounds completely uninterested to me. If she wasnt interested in following the advice of the MC, she most likely will not be willing to read any of the books we normally recommend either, because that means putting forth effort.


Eliminating lovebusters and meeting emotional needs can go a LONG way in changing the dynamic in a marriage. Someone has to start first- he's here so he gets to be the one to try first. And, in the book His Needs, Her Needs, Dr. Harley says that in his clinical practice, he found that couples had a much greater chance of success when the husband is willing to do the work with a reluctant wife, than the other way around.

So yes- I do think he can turn it around only because others in his position have done it, in a relatively short period of time too. His first post was laden with disrespectful judgements of his wife. The book Lovebusters will help him learn how to eliminate those and His Needs, Her Needs will help him learn how to make love desposits instead of withdrawals.


----------



## Lukedog (Nov 18, 2015)

Your wife sounds a lot like my husband.....except mine drinks. We've been married 22 yrs....together for almost 25. Our communication skills suck, and no matter what I do I can't seem to get him involved in our marriage mentally and emotionally. It's like he exists....he's there physically (but not sexually), but emotionally.....NOT. And believe me, being emotionally lonely in a marriage is no way to live a marriage. 

Someone suggested Depression. She could also be going through Menopause, and that could be driving the depression, anxiety, lack of libido, lack of self-esteem, etc. Some women go through it early and some go through it late. It could be worth a trip to her gyno to get some blood work done. Maybe some IC for the both of you to figure out where each person stands in the relationship. If that helps then you could try MC again. But if she is not willing to try these things now and look into the reasons why the marriage is unhealthy and not happy, if she is not willing to address your concerns, then there is no reason to stay. It's kind of like an addict. An addict has to "admit" there is a problem and then "want" to get help. They themselves have to make the change. If she is not willing to "see" what the issues are and "want" to make the changes to make it right, then what's the point of staying in the marriage? You alone can't make the marriage work....that's not a marriage. It's only going to bring you down, make you depressed, stressed out, and that will give way to other health problems.


----------



## jdjd (Jun 4, 2017)

lisamaree said:


> I'm not a psychiatrist or anything but I would guess your wife is experiencing some depression. Depression can cause someone to withdraw, even just partially, can cause a lack of interest, frivolous spending, and an inability to commit to promises or goals. Depression can be caused by experiences, or it can just be biological (and compounded by experiences).
> 
> I would try to invigorate your bond with her by doing more together, have a conversation with her about something positive. Perhaps you already do some of these things, I'm not sure by your post. But try not to have every interaction (or even most interactions) with her be something you don't like about your marriage, her, the kids, or the house. I'm just getting the feeling that you may be also projecting some negativity by a few comments you have made here (i.e. saying you are a perfectionist) onto your wife and it may be making her feel inadequate. Try to make her feel like you are on her side, it's not you vs. her.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the comment. Our MC suggested the same about depression so you may be correct (my wife doesn't think she is). We do have some fun light moments here and there. It is nice but then when I see things like a cupboard full of junk food, the sugary drinks she buys for our children, her piles of items she doesn't use, etc., anything good I felt before is lost. I get down and I'm having a really hard time keeping things positive with her. I'd love to hear from others what they do when they are losing energy when trying to work with a partner.


----------



## jdjd (Jun 4, 2017)

Lukedog said:


> Your wife sounds a lot like my husband.....except mine drinks. We've been married 22 yrs....together for almost 25. Our communication skills suck, and no matter what I do I can't seem to get him involved in our marriage mentally and emotionally. It's like he exists....he's there physically (but not sexually), but emotionally.....NOT. And believe me, being emotionally lonely in a marriage is no way to live a marriage.


You are not the first to draw a comparison between her and drinking. I had a coworker with an alcoholic wife who assumed the same of my wife (she rarely drinks). I think he assumed that because my wife was rarely present at company family events and maybe he could see it in my face (that's my best guess -- I don't ever recall talking about her to coworkers).

Thank you for your reply and good luck with your struggles.


----------

