# Help with Talking to Husband About Sex Issues



## ccc123 (Jan 19, 2017)

Hello everyone.

I just stumbled across this forum today and I'm so glad I did. I'm hoping for some advice on how to handle a situation with my husband; he's 36 and I'm 29, we've been married for 3 years but together for 5. I feel very embarrassed talking to anyone I know about this, so I really appreciate the help in advance, especially since this is going to be SO long. 

We have been going through some rough patches in our sex life over the past year or so. I have had lots of hormonal problems over these past several months that come and go, such as low sex drive, chronic bacterial vaginosis, vaginal dryness, yeast infections, migraines, etc. Throughout these rough patches, he had been very negative about my low sex drive - he always thought it had something to do with how I feel about him (it didn't); he would get mad at me when I wouldn't kiss him with passion even in moments that generally are little pecks; he really just thought everything was about him. He would get extremely frustrated when we did do it because I was not wet enough, which again he thought was a lack of arousal. He has some issues with depression and anxiety which we are always working through, so I know some of this comes from a position of that, but it put up a huge wall because I felt like he wasn't really listening to me, and didn't believe me when I told him it was hormonal and that it had nothing to do with my feelings for him (I have always been a sexual person so I knew it was something imbalanced in my body, and I love him more than anything). 

I finally came to the decision to come off hormonal birth control, something we had been discussing for awhile. I finally was able to lay it out for my doctor, and she agreed that it could resolve a lot of the vaginal and hormonal issues. She suggested condom use, which I am fine with because we are not in a situation in which we want to get pregnant. When I told him we could use condoms during the fertile times, he FLIPPED out. It was back to all of the old things, I don't really want him, we might as well just give up sex altogether because he's never going to feel me again, etc, I mean a complete overreaction. Things calmed down after a bit and we tabled the issue.

That was almost a month ago, and I definitely have seen a lot of my health issues go away. We have had sex once or twice a week since I came off the pill and have used the pull out method, and he hasn't complained. However, he still becomes very hurt and defensive when I don't want him to touch me, even if it's for a legitimate reason (I mean I really don't want him tweaking my nipples while I'm eating pasta - he says things like "I'm sorry I annoy you" really sarcastically). 

As another bit of background information, a coworker of his messaged me on facebook on new year's telling me she's in love with him. I confronted him about it, and he told me not to worry about it - he has been open with me about how he and other coworkers have been trying to help her from suicidal thoughts, and I have no reason to believe they are involved, but I know she wants to be involved, and based on all of these other issues, it is a cause for alarm for me.

Back to sex - He has always been very sexual, and I know he looks at porn and masturbates. He also has bisexual tendencies (something he was always open and honest with me about - never romantic, always only sexual). My gut tells me he's masturbating a lot, and this morning I brought his phone upstairs for him, and when I unplugged it, I saw a KIK message from a guy saying "Oh do you?" I teach high school, so I know what KIK is, and this is the tipping point for me. 

Here is my concern: I REALLY want to talk to him about all of this - about the condoms, about the coworker, about how he feels now about our sex life, about the KIK thing, about how he may be addicted to masturbating and perhaps online sexual infidelity - but I am SO worried he is going to shut down. I want him to know that I am not accusing him of anything; that I love him, trust him, and want to work through all of these issues with him together. I feel like I've made him out to be awful, but aside from all of this he really is the most wonderful husband in so many ways (caring, loving, supportive, attentive, etc). I'm afraid that even if I say that I am not accusing him, he will still think so and it will push him away from me. I can't keep holding all of this in, because I have my own anxiety issues and I'm having trouble focusing at work and on other things. 

I just really, really want transparency. I want us to give one another privacy, but I don't want to keep feeling like he's hiding things from me. I want him to understand that we have to help one another with understanding and loving one another.

I'm hoping you guys can offer some insight on how I may approach this with him. I'm afraid of keeping it inside and letting it fester. 

Thank you all so much, again.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

A few things come to mind...

His porn use and masturbating could be a result of the decrease in sex with you. He had to take matters into his own hands (literally) when you had a low drive and hormonal issues. So, he may be used to quick, uninvolved masturbation for sexual release. I'd guess an increase in regular sexual activity will help that. But that is going to be a slow conversion.

As far as that woman, KIK, etc... I'd suggest that you look for more evidence first. Of course if you address it he'll say it's nothing. But if there IS something there it's better to have evidence that makes you SURE there is rather than guessing and pushing him underground.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Do you have a real plan for increased intimacy in the relationship? And of equal importance, Does He? All I'm seeing is blame throwing, and stop gaps.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Is sexual therapy honestly out of the question for either of you?

It might just possibly reconnect the two of you ~ no pun intended!*


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Chris Taylor said:


> His porn use and masturbating could be a result of the decrease in sex with you. He had to take matters into his own hands (literally) when you had a low drive and hormonal issues. So, he may be used to quick, uninvolved masturbation for sexual release. I'd guess an increase in regular sexual activity will help that. But that is going to be a slow conversion.


Exactly ...What do you expect? If you take sex away from your husband, he's going to find a way, other than you, for release. Blame it on anything you want to but it comes down you not providing your husband release and expecting him to just deal with it.


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## ccc123 (Jan 19, 2017)

Thank you all for your responses so far. 

I can't figure out how to quote multiple posts in one reply so I'll just address by username (if there's a "how-to" post somewhere, that would be great...lol!).

Chris Taylor and jb - I should have clarified that amongst these issues, we were still having sex. Most of the time it was once a week, sometimes, when the bacterial infections were really bad, it would be once every two weeks. I'm not as worried about the porn use and masturbation as much as I am the KIK use...that is what is cluing me in to what may be a larger problem. Excessive masturbation on its own of course can be an issue, but when it involves talking to other people, I dunno, I just feel like that is more of an issue. I understand that without sex, men need release, but again, where is the line drawn? 

As far as waiting for more evidence, I'm not sure how to do that without invading his privacy, which is something I certainly don't want to do. But I also don't want to let this linger...

Mr. Nail - I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a plan. I've read some other posts where couples agree on a frequency and other aspects, and I think that would be amazing. However, in all of those arguments I described, he always says he wants sex to be a spontaneous, natural thing. I guess, again, I am afraid of asking to come up with a plan based on this and his previous responses to these types of discussions.

Arbitrator - Sexual Therapy is not out of the question for me...but again, my issue is actually bringing these things up to him. I don't want him to think I'm trying to take away his view that sex should be natural and etc etc.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks for the Reply. To use the multi quote feature multi quote in the order you want to reply, but on the last pick click the Quote button instead. Type the Name precisely with an @ sign in front to mention someone or direct a comment to them. Like This @ccc123 it is important to type the name precisely. You can go back and edit your post to include the @ feature. There is a complicated way to edit in a quote. 

His way of dealing with his frustration is ineffective and hurtful because he hasn't taken the time to sit down and think about what he wants and how he can get it. In a mismatched drive situation waiting for natural and spontaneous most often leads to waiting forever. He Needs to get that idea into his head first before he can make a realistic plan. I am actually quite impressed with your actions so far even if they aren't part of a comprehensive plan. You have seen the Doctor, and adjusted your medication. That is a huge step in the right direction. The next thing to work on might be some self coaching where you remind yourself that he is acting out in frustration and not as a personal affront. He is in a vulnerable situation with the co-worker you should keep a close eye on that situation. Honestly the last thing he needs is a fling with a depressed person, but he isn't seeing that. 

I also find the KIK thing worrisome. I would advise you to put marital safety ahead of misused privacy in this case. Hack his account and get copies of what he is saying.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ccc123 said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I just stumbled across this forum today and I'm so glad I did. I'm hoping for some advice on how to handle a situation with my husband; he's 36 and I'm 29, we've been married for 3 years but together for 5. I feel very embarrassed talking to anyone I know about this, so I really appreciate the help in advance, especially since this is going to be SO long.
> 
> ...


First of all, you do know that you can still get pregnant if you have sex outside of your fertile days? AND with the pull-out method??

And no, tweaking nipples while eating pasta is not ok (if you are not ok with it) and he should respect you when you need to be left alone.
His reactions strike me very ego-centric. This is a very common theme with guys when it comes to sex or sexual rejection. I am a guy and I often can't help but feel similarly but learnt over the years not to take these things personally.

Anyway my first thought from reading this: the way you want your relationship to be is very commendable but irreconcilable with reality. I see a few worrying signs.
I agree you need to find out more about the co-worker and text situation (don't just ask him) so you know exactly what you are dealing with and whether it corresponds with what he is telling you. Once you know there isn't anything more to what he is telling you, why don't you write him a letter explaining exactly what you wrote here? Your writing is very good and all your points come across convincingly and what you want from him doesn't strike me as unreasonable. After this, you two need to have open conversations.
But first make sure the texting stuff etc is under control. He needs to have boundaries and respect them.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I think it's pretty clear why you keep suffering from chronic BV and yeast infections, etc. etc.

The minute I read that, I had my suspicions about this guy, and then I get to the end of your post and there it is - shady behavior with both men AND women. He may be 'addicted' to masturbation, but this guy has a whole secret sex life with others that *you don't know about*.

Except YOU keep paying the price for it with BV and yeast infections.

First and foremost - stop the cycle of antibiotics for BV. It's a vicious cycle and sometimes works against you and keeps it returning. Instead, start taking ProBiotics immediately. That will return your bacterial count to a natural balance. BV is caused by a concentration of more 'bad' bacteria breeding than good bacteria. So start ProBiotics IMMEDIATELY.

Secondly, stop jumping around like a trained seal always trying to please this fool. The world doesn't revolve around his d*ck although God knows, HE thinks it does. What the hell is wrong with him that he has to jerk off twice in one night? Jesus, talk about not having anything more productive to do with your time. Well I would suppose he's got his KIK buddies to fantasize with (and probably meet up with), so there's that.

I'd avoid your husband sexually like the *plague*. Hell, he might as well HAVE the plague since he's given you just about everything else. Ugh.

I would HIGHLY recommend you go for a full panel of STD testing. I'm not kidding.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ccc123 said:


> That was almost a month ago, and I definitely have seen a lot of my health issues go away. We have had sex once or twice a week since I came off the pill and have used the pull out method, and he hasn't complained. However, he still becomes very hurt and defensive when I don't want him to touch me, even if it's for a legitimate reason (*I mean I really don't want him tweaking my nipples while I'm eating pasta - he says things like "I'm sorry I annoy you" really sarcastically*).


If your husband FLIPPED OUT about using condoms AND he has trouble understanding when it is NOT OK to be sexually playful with you, you may want to read about autism spectrum disorder in the event he also has any compulsive behaviors and is rather socially awkward around others (like saying things in a manner that are inappropriately personal or that can really hurt people's feeling without your husband understanding what he has done).

Condoms completely change the sensation of sex, and those that have any degree of autism can be extremely sensitive to things that change physical sensations. An example might be stepping in a puddle and soaking your socks, and being completely unable to continue about your day until changing into some clean and dry socks/shoes. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum

In any event, in addition to telling your husband what he should NOT do (twerking your nipples while eating pasta) you should also put a strong emphasis on communicating to him what he CAN do! Yes that sounds awkward and if you are perhaps having to treat him as a child, but when encountering issues with sexual challenges you have to try and make communication very clear until the two of you are comfortable becoming a little more playful.

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My guess is that he is a dominant character and you spend a lot of time walking on eggshells trying to keep him from being upset. That he blames you for a lot of things. That he is frequently angry, even angry at the world for ways people are slighting him. 

Does that sound like your relationship?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

...


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## Skate Daddy 9 (Sep 19, 2011)

I agree that he has given you some kind of STD, the whole condom reaction is him trying to put up a front that he is STD free. Condoms are no big deal IMO. I think you need to talk directly to this Coworker that messaged you. She messaged you directly and that is your open door to talk to her without making it any of your husbands business, you have every right to meet with her and tell her that he is married to you and that her relationship with him is inappropriate.


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## MartinBeck (Jan 19, 2017)

OP -
You need to acknowledge your role as the sexually refusing wife but hold him to standards that you expect.

As has already been stated, a high drive early 30s guy who is routinely refused by his wife early in the marriage will be extremely frustrated and will naturally turn to taking care of himself using porn. Unless you are providing what he needs from you in the marriage sexually, you can't ask him to not use porn. That's very controlling! However you certainly can expect him to not cheat on you and not chat with other women.

At this stage in the marriage pre-kids you two should be happy and in love and doing it like rabbits. That you're not is a big red flag that you maybe should end the marriage.

It's obviously unacceptable for a married man to always have to wear condoms. Look at non-hormonal IUDs or try different BC pill formulations that work for you. If he's totally set on no (more?) kids then he should go see Dr. Snippy. Use NFP supplemented with frequent oral and anal sex. There's lots of options. What's critically important is that he see you activity working to solve the medial problem, and to enthusiastically provide him with the sex life he wants within the context of your medical limitations. 

Same thing with your migraines. Figure out your triggers (food, environmental, etc) and work with a doctor to try to fix or minimize it. 

Whatever you do NEVER lie or exaggerate a health issue in order to get out of sex. Have you often given him reason to think to himself "hey she's been healthy and energetic enough to go spend the day doing ... that's important to her, but as soon as I initiate sex she's miserable and ill and exhausted? She's making things up to get out of sex." If you're doing that - stop it! You're lying to him, and worse, you're lying to yourself. 

You should have a conversation with him about the "groping". But ask yourself - in public, are you reaching out to hold his hand? Hug him? Do you turn away from him when he tried to give you a quick kiss even in a public place where there's no chance of it turning it into sex? Then recognize that you're actually not attracted to him and that maybe he's not the man for you. 

If the porn use really bothers you, here's my recommendation: Get serious about initiating and taking care of his needs frequently and enthusiastically. Then after a few months where through your actions you've consistent demonstrated to him that you are no longer the sexual refuser, then have a talk with him about cutting down. Keep it light hearted if possible and frame it as you want him to "Save it all for me!" and "not waste it on porn so you can be hard for me when I need it". If you demand him to full-stop and never watch again, he might lie, but he won't. He still doesn't trust you to take care of his needs, and he'll start hiding it from you. So don't put him in that position. Your goal should be to get him to cut down on external sources of stimulus and keep his energies and interest focused on you, not to shame him or demand he never jack off again.

But if you can't bring yourself to put his penis in your mouth 2-3x weekly for the next few months, then you need to realize that you are not attracted to him and you are never going to be able to make the marriage work, and you need to let him go.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I think it's pretty clear why you keep suffering from chronic BV and yeast infections, etc. etc.
> 
> The minute I read that, I had my suspicions about this guy, and then I get to the end of your post and there it is - shady behavior with both men AND women. He may be 'addicted' to masturbation, but this guy has a whole secret sex life with others that *you don't know about*.
> 
> ...


 @She'sStillGotIt ... I don't always agree with your posts and sometimes I think they are incredibly harsh....but I ALWAYS enjoy reading them because you are an excellent writer and frankly, you're hysterical! :grin2:

"The world doesn't revolve around his d*ck....."

I've been giggling about that one all morning.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Sigh, ok. I'll be the dummy that has to ask. 

What is KIK?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@Fozzy,

KIK is an app for phones (and probably the web) that lets you chat (and probably more -- like play games, ... I've lost track).

Same category as Facebook Messenger or Snapchat or .... (back in the day, AOL Instant Messenger) or Skype or iMessage.... 

Communicates over the internet, rather than via SMS messaging.

One downside in some contexts is activity in such apps/systems doesn't normally leave a trail.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

OP,

Even if his intent is honorable with the suicidal coworker, his relationship with her could easily become dysfunctional -- in a co-dependent and manipulative way -- especially if he has his own issues, which it sounds like he does. That's a giant additional layer on top of the risk of an EmotionalAffair (EA) that anyone could easily slip into when failing to have healthy boundaries and integrity.

What exactly did the co-worker tell you?

The behavior of his towards you that you described (pouting, unwelcome and sophomoric advances, lack of empathy towards your medical issues) is destructive to your relationship and your emotional health. You seem capable of empathy towards his experience during the time you were not as available to him as he would have liked, but he -- less so. So, it seems resolving the hurt feelings and understanding mistakes is not likely to occur without some sort of refereeing and guidance from some sort of counselor. It only helps to talk if you both can hear each other without psychological defense mechanisms butting in.

I'd agree there is a chance your BV etc stems from the sort of scenario a couple of folks have described, and you need to consider that possibility. However, the posts I read asserting that possibility, well-meaning and thoughtful as they were, can only be guesses (though the posters sounded very convinced). Until you can get to the bottom of it, keep in mind there are other, relatively mundane, causes of BV and yeast infections, and your doctor (if a good one) is aware. But, I certainly would see the doctor again and ask about the possibilities and for more testing.

It will help your marriage to make clear to him what he has done that hurt you and makes you uncomfortable. It will help you and your marriage to get them clear in your head, and decide what your boundaries are, communicate them, and enforce them.

I think it is also important for you to communicate that when you were not available, that indeed it was not a reflection of you losing love for him (if that is true). Or that his attractiveness generally was [not!] deteriorating in you (if that is true). It is also important that he understand that some of his behaviors in response make him less attractive and appear to be someone you don't want him to become (if that's true -- and, I'm thinking about pouty and insecure behavior).

You both need to find a way to talk about dissatisfaction in your sexual and emotional relationship, a way that doesn't cause either of your to want to retreat into your defense mechanisms.

Your mention of him talking with men (?) on KIK disorients me, especially the part where you seem to not be all that bothered by it.

IMHO, you have every right to transparency about who you each interact with. If you have suspicions, the only thing that I can imagine possibly working is for you to investigate covertly until convinced one way or the other; feeling you are not entitled isn't going to work; asking him to confess, if he has something to confess, isn't going to work. That's just the way it is. Some here would disagree. But, I suspect those who have been betrayed tend to agree, rather strongly. Search for "Standard Evidence Thread" in the CWI forum here.

I like the book "Mating in Captivity" by Esther Perel. I think it would be good for you to read, if you feel a bit like you are in uncharted territory, relationship-wise.


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## ccc123 (Jan 19, 2017)

@Mr.Nail and @inmyprime - thank you so much for the suggestions. I really like the idea of the letter. My question for you guys, though, is this - if I do my own digging and find something past just suspicion, how do I bring it up?? I mean clearly at that point I will have hid from him my investigating - I will look around here for some more posts on delivering that information, but any advice would be great as well.
@She'sStillGotIt and @skateDaddy9 - I appreciate the concern and I definitely see where you came to those conclusions. It does sound like it is related, I will give you that. However, I am clean; with all of the vaginal swabbing that has been done, any STIs were ruled out repeatedly. Additionally, I have had these types of problems off and on my whole life; in fact, my first yeast infection happened before my first period, when I was in 5th grade. They have just seemed to hit a tipping point based on my body chemistry changing as I approach 30. My doctor is a women's health specialist and we have been through many scenarios. I did stop the metronidazole topical and have been on probiotics for almost a month, and that in addition to stopping the hormonal BC seems to have returned my vagina to its normal flora.
@badsanta - Excellent advice. I didn't even think about autism, and we actually have had discussions in the past where he thinks he may be somewhere on the spectrum. He is an extremely deep thinker and has incredible insight but struggles socially, a hallmark of some types of autism.
@MartinBeck I don't even know where to start with this...although I appreciate your feedback, it reads very much like the husband should be the sole decision maker in sexual situations, and that the wife's role is to service his every need. This is archaic, at best, and inequitable at worst. I hardly think that the frequency of oral sex dictates the level of attraction. I've already said that I am actively working on the health issues, and I have never used it as an excuse. Think about cottage-cheese like, foul smelling liquid oozing out of your swollen, itchy penis, but you can't treat it unless you shove gel in there - that's what BV is like. Additionally, my migraine triggers are hormonal - many women suffer from them as a result of the rising and falling hormones of the cycle; I cannot control how my body produces hormones. And yes, we are both very physically affectionate with one another. I fail to see how his belligerence is my fault entirely...what I need help with is really talking to him and communicating and coming up with something that works for both of us.

I should clarify some things. My husband rarely initiates sex - I am almost always the initiator. We do it once a week pretty consistently, as I mentioned in my OP. But this, I think, is part of the problem, because I think he thinks I don't want to do it based on the low drive and other issues, so perhaps he's afraid of rejection. Add that to the fact he has this idea that things should be spontaneous and natural and now we have a conundrum. 

Additionally, we rarely fight about anything else, and he is not controlling. We have our little marital spats, but we have a lot in common and generally get along well, enjoy our partnership, and love one another very much. 

I am still anxious about the coworker, but today he insinuated he just wants her to leave him alone, so I'm starting to think more and more that it is one-sided on her end. I'm not opposed to contacting her, but again, how do I then tell my husband I went behind his back?

Let me ask you guys this - do you think that if a person is using KIK to sex chat with a stranger, that it is infidelity, or simply another form of porn? Interested to hear your thoughts.

Again, thanks everyone for your help and suggestions!!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ccc123 said:


> @Mr.Nail and @inmyprime - thank you so much for the suggestions. I really like the idea of the letter. My question for you guys, though, is this - if I do my own digging and find something past just suspicion, how do I bring it up?? I mean clearly at that point I will have hid from him my investigating - I will look around here for some more posts on delivering that information, but any advice would be great as well.


You have to first know what it is you are dealing with (what level of deception). You might not bring it up at all and might just have to leave (if it's really bad). Don't feel bad for snooping; he is the one hiding something from you. You have a valid reason for being suspicious.
Read the CWI board: some people there are pros at snooping.
I do hope it's nothing though.


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## ccc123 (Jan 19, 2017)

PieceOfSky said:


> OP,
> 
> Even if his intent is honorable with the suicidal coworker, his relationship with her could easily become dysfunctional -- in a co-dependent and manipulative way -- especially if he has his own issues, which it sounds like he does. That's a giant additional layer on top of the risk of an EmotionalAffair (EA) that anyone could easily slip into when failing to have healthy boundaries and integrity.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this constructive, respectful, relevant response. 

So with the coworker, my husband has told me her whole situation. She's been in some legal trouble, so I mentioned that he could give her the name of one of our lawyer friends. He must have told her I made the suggestion, because she sent me three messages: 1) "don't try and help me, it'll only hurt you in the long run" 2) "I'm in love with your husband", and 3) "if you want more information call me xxx-xxx-xxxx"

I made the mistake (or was it a mistake, I don't really know) of showing my husband. He seemed upset, but not in a "**** I got caught" sort of way. I did confront him about it again a week later, and he explained more of her situation and that it's nothing more than him trying to help her navigate these issues, and that basically by sending me those messages she's made it so that can't help her (whatever that means). I see her texts pop up on his phone when we're watching videos together and he swipes them up, but again, not in a "**** **** ****" sort of way. 

I continually assert him it's not about my feelings for him, and have said in the past that the outbursts are off-putting. I think that if I use all of yours (and others) strategies here and it still does not improve, and we still cannot communicate well, I will make an appointment with a counselor and just be adamant about us going. 

I saw that book in another post - definitely interested!!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ccc123 said:


> I should clarify some things. My husband rarely initiates sex - I am almost always the initiator. We do it once a week pretty consistently, as I mentioned in my OP. But this, I think, is part of the problem, because I think he thinks I don't want to do it based on the low drive and other issues, so perhaps he's afraid of rejection. Add that to the fact he has this idea that things should be spontaneous and natural and now we have a conundrum.
> 
> Additionally, we rarely fight about anything else, and he is not controlling. We have our little marital spats, but we have a lot in common and generally get along well, enjoy our partnership, and love one another very much.
> 
> ...


Yes, guys often have a problem initiating (as you say, fear of rejection). Is it a problem if you do initiate? (and he accepts). That's basically our arrangement at home (I never rejected my wife but was often rejected in the past, and couldn't cope well with it).

Co-worker: he might be "sugar coating" the issue, in fear of hurting you. 

Sexting: difficult one. Depends entirely on the content. I think if he is interacting with a real person, it is more in the infidelity territory than porn. On the other hand, nowadays everything and everyone is anonymous on the net (at least we assume we are) that nothing really matters anymore, it seems.

Lastly, I am not sure "mild autism" should be used as an excuse for either infidelity*, dishonesty or selfish behaviour...But perhaps I am wrong. I don't have much experience with this and my thinking is probably old-fashioned.

My general feeling and worry, from reading your original post, is that it seems you have a clear idea how an ideal relationship should be and you want it from your partner very badly. My worry is that, if he doesn't fit your ideal, you might get disappointed or, worst case scenario, badly hurt. Try to remain down to earth with a healthy dose of skepticism about everything.

*Infidelity has not been proven so it's just a general statement for now.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ccc123 said:


> Thank you so much for this constructive, respectful, relevant response.
> 
> So with the coworker, my husband has told me her whole situation. She's been in some legal trouble, so I mentioned that he could give her the name of one of our lawyer friends. He must have told her I made the suggestion, because she sent me three messages: 1) "don't try and help me, it'll only hurt you in the long run" 2) "I'm in love with your husband", and 3) "if you want more information call me xxx-xxx-xxxx"
> 
> ...


Ok, she does sound rather insane and in the "one day, I will cook your bunny" variety. What I don't understand is, why is your husband trying to help her? His priority should be to block this person, every possible way. Is he enjoying the attention of a disturbed person? 
It doesn't matter how he acts when he is getting her messages, *he should not be getting her messages* and he should block her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

For the coworker, look up KISA - knight in shining armor - syndrome. Print out some articles for your husband to read. He needs to understand what he fell into.

inmyprime: 'mild form of autism' is ABSOLUTELY an issue here because people on the autism spectrum have a horrible time understanding other people - or not hurting other people. Read this book if you don't believe me.
https://www.amazon.com/Journal-Best-Practices-Marriage-Asperger/dp/1439189749

In fact, I was just discussing this with my boss this week. Her brother is an Aspie and, having 3 older sisters, he was often held to task for his inability to interact in a 'normal, healthy' way. We all agreed that, had his sisters not given him family tough love, he would have never learned how to even navigate normal relationships. We agreed he would have become a recluse for lack of understanding of just how much he stood out and hurt other people.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

turnera said:


> For the coworker, look up KISA - knight in shining armor - syndrome. Print out some articles for your husband to read. He needs to understand what he fell into.
> 
> inmyprime: 'mild form of autism' is ABSOLUTELY an issue here because people on the autism spectrum have a horrible time understanding other people - or not hurting other people. Read this book if you don't believe me.
> https://www.amazon.com/Journal-Best-Practices-Marriage-Asperger/dp/1439189749
> ...




Ok, I was in no way dismissing it, just that I wasn't sure how you can tell who is genuinely 'on the spectrum' and where on the spectrum and who is just abusing this.
Can you test it precisely to know where exactly you are on the spectrum? Or is it something you decide yourself.
I thought autism is something that can be diagnosed reliably by doctors and not a self diagnosis.

And in any case, I am not arguing whether he is autistic or not; even if he is autistic, it doesn't mean the OP shouldn't protect herself from getting hurt, deliberately or unintentionally.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Also: it seems strange that the husband has no trouble relating to the feelings of a stranger (the suicidal lady) yet doesn't understand when he can or can't tweak someone's nipples or why it makes her upset.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> @She'sStillGotIt ... I don't always agree with your posts and sometimes I think they are incredibly harsh....but I ALWAYS enjoy reading them because you are an excellent writer and frankly, you're hysterical! :grin2:
> 
> "The world doesn't revolve around his d*ck....."
> 
> I've been giggling about that one all morning.


I imagine her as a very quiet, modest person who has never hurt an ant in her life.


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## MartinBeck (Jan 19, 2017)

Yes, frequency is absolutely a function of attraction.

To summarize your situation, he's otherwise a good husband, and the only real fights you have are around sex. You don't have an STD and you don't have evidence that he's cheating on you. 
Your big concern seemed to be that he's frequently complaining about his lack of a sex life and lack of enthusiasm and passion on your part.

Listen to him and believe him.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Ok, I was in no way dismissing it, just that I wasn't sure how you can tell who is genuinely 'on the spectrum' and where on the spectrum and who is just abusing this.
> Can you test it precisely to know where exactly you are on the spectrum? Or is it something you decide yourself.
> I thought autism is something that can be diagnosed reliably by doctors and not a self diagnosis.
> 
> ...



The author's wife, and perhaps him, were featured on NPR awhile back. IIRC, she took an online test guessing her best at how he would answer, and came up strongly for Aspergers. Details here: 'Best Practices': Learning To Live With Asperger's : NPR

The point of the book is they figured out he was wired differently than most of us, and they figured out "best practices" that helped him manage the negative impact he was having on their relationship. Iirc, knowing he was an Aspie helped him figure out the best practices.

No guarantees anyone steps up to the plate and gives it their best effort, armed with knowledge of the truth or misinformed or worse. But, kudos to anyone seeking to be better informed -- not to make excuses, but to generate healthy change.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

MartinBeck said:


> Yes, frequency is absolutely a function of attraction.
> 
> To summarize your situation, he's otherwise a good husband, and the only real fights you have are around sex. You don't have an STD and you don't have evidence that he's cheating on you.
> Your big concern seemed to be that he's frequently complaining about his lack of a sex life and lack of enthusiasm and passion on your part.
> ...


Yes, and make sure he is listening to you too. Avoiding talk or letting conversations end with misunderstanding never addressed is a recipie for destruction of a marriage.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

This doesn't make sense. Your husband doesn't seem concerned with a suicidal woman in legal trouble contacting his wife (who gave her your number), first warning you that merely helping her people get hurt, then claiming love for your husband, then inviting you to call her.

You don't seem concerned about the crazy lady stalking who seems bent on challenging and involving you.

You don't seem concerned that this could precipitate trouble at work, which him losing his job is a possibility, right?

You seem concerned about how you will be able to tell him what you find, if you happen to find something, before you've even looked.

Why is it you are here?


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## ccc123 (Jan 19, 2017)

@MartinBeck - No. That is not my concern. From my OP: "Here is my concern: I REALLY want to talk to him about all of this - about the condoms, about the coworker, about how he feels now about our sex life, about the KIK thing, about how he may be addicted to masturbating and perhaps online sexual infidelity - but I am SO worried he is going to shut down. I want him to know that I am not accusing him of anything; that I love him, trust him, and want to work through all of these issues with him together."

THAT is my concern. The fact that most of the time, when he does express his frustrations about our sex life, he is extremely negative to the point where I usually end up in tears. Nothing I say assuages him, I make suggestions that he just shoots down, and then 15 minutes later he's holding me and saying he's sorry. That's why I'm here for advice - to gain some insight into how we can effectively communicate with one another. I DO listen and I DO believe him but he will not listen or believe me and that is the issue. 

I will say that we have had some constructive discussions, but they don't usually end in a concise plan for going forward, so we end up right back where we started. It's like what @PieceOfSky just said, I can't seem to get him to finish the conversation, and I desperately want to. 

Additionally, if you think that frequency is a function of attraction, this is not the case (could be for some because we're all different, but not for most). You may have seen this on another thread, but it really sums up why frequency is NOT the norm for most married women:

What Men Think about Sex Versus Reality - Dr. Psych Mom
@PieceOfSky - I am concerned about those things. That's why I am here - to figure out how to best approach him when he has a history of not listening. I've never been in this situation before, where I may have to go behind someone I love's back. It seems wrong to me, and I know people will say that he's the one in the wrong so I shouldn't feel bad, but I still feel bad. I've gotten some really good suggestions here, though, so I will see where those take me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Good communication is your best bet, provided you know what you are up against. Have you asked him about the KIK thing? What does he say?
If you feel he is not truthful with you, there is perhaps a reason. You should listen to your intuition.


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## MartinBeck (Jan 19, 2017)

Ok, so you want to have a conversation with him without him shutting down and getting angry and withdrawing. He will need to feel safe and non-threatened if you want to get somewhere in that conversation. If he feels attacked or feels likely to be attacked, he is not going to be open or honest and you're not going to get anywhere.

Can you make a list for us of specific outcomes you'd like from that conversation? 

Like if he'd acknowledge his frequent porn use to you, and be willing to say to you "yep I guess maybe I sure do sometimes watch a lot of porn", then that would be a successful conversation?

Would it be a successful conversation if he could tell you how often he feels he needs to jerk off, and you could tell him that you're becoming uncomfortable with the amount of porn he's consuming? 

Or are you looking to get specific behavior changes out of him as a result of the conversation? If so, what specific behavior changes do you want to ask him to make? 

Asking him to not sex chat with men or women and telling him that you feel like that is infidelity sounds like a very very good thing to try to talk to him about, but is that what you're looking to get out of the conversation with him?

Also, what do you think his reaction would be if you asked him to come visit TAM and read this thread?


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

What sort of suggestions do you make? How is it that he shoots them down? When he comes back in 15 minutes saying he is sorry, have you tried then to continue the conversation -- even calmly insisted?

Rather than you solely wondering in your head how to have a conversation, perhaps you could directly, firmly, and calmly tell him what it is you feel needs to be discussed and why, and then directly ask him to propose a way to discuss it all. If he evades, tell him that evading the issues is not acceptable to you.

What kind of job does he have? 

What sort of legal trouble is she supposedly in?

How did she have your phone number?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Been thinking a bit more about your situation. Are you not worried that the fact that he is bisexual might mean that *you* might not be enough for him? I don't know how these types of relationships usually play out but I don't think it excuses him from KIKing other bi/homosexual guys. It's not fair to you.

I do think that personal interaction is not like porn and more on the infidelity side. There really is no reason why gay porn shouldn't be enough for him (or whatever porn turns him on) and why he needs extra chats and sexual interactions with others.
If you don't want to "invade his privacy" (this really is political correctness gone mad in my opinion). Have you asked him to cut it out with the sexting? Does he respect your wishes?
Have you been in many other relationships? I worry that because you might not have any reference point, you might consider certain things with him must be the "norm" but in reality, he might be mistreating you and abusing your trust and love for him.

With regards to sexual stuff: it does normally help a guy if you "help him out", when you can't have sex with them. It's better than nothing and it should make him want to reduce/stop watching porn if he gets his orgasm regularly.

The fact that he doesn't respect your health issues but you are supposed to be all understanding about his possible "very mild autism" or "aspergers" (I am confused which one it is, as both have been mentioned) seems like a double standard to me. You have actually been diagnosed with heath problems by doctors whereas he has to take an online poll?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

condoms suck, but you have a good medical reason to have him use them, so...he should at least try it.

How about you though. Have you compensated for lack of PIV sex by giving him a LOT of oral sex? That would make him happy again.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

You have gotten a lot of good suggestions so I won't rehash those that I already agree with, but will just add my own .02. 

If you haven't looked into it, consider getting an IUD. I got mine for other medical reasons, and I am not familiar with yours, but it ended up a godsend in my life.

I am completely way over on the side of high alert about KIK and the co-worker. Kids and single people using KIK and Whassap is one thing. Or if you have a relative in another country. Otherwise, why aren't you using your normal texting on your phone? The answer is to hide something,

If your best friend told you that she got texts from another woman professing her love for her husband that she works with, and that also she provided her phone number to answer any questions, what would you advise her to do? YOU MEET WITH THE OTHER WOMAN. You will find out pretty quick if she is batsh!t crazy. Anyone here who has been on the CWI (Coping with Infedelity) forum would advise that coworker to contact the wife to expose an affair. You are playing ostrich instead. Arrange a meeting with her immediately and listen to all she has to say to you.

To me, if my husband were sexting online with gay men, or women, that is absolutely cheating. Many of those things DO turn physical in the end. He may be KIKing someone in your area, and hooking up for 5 minute BJs in their cars! Who knows!! I think you only know the tip of the iceberg on this one. It's time to get serious and find out the truth. I highly recommend you to submit a new post, only about the coworker and KIK to the CWI forum here on TAM and then sit back and listen and learn from those who have lived all this.

He's a married man. He shouldn't be texting opposite sex coworkers about anything outside of work. He shouldn't be seeking out strangers to build most likely unsavory realtionships with on apps that hide your texts from your spouse. If he wants to do that, he needs to divorce and be single again.

Forget his privacy. He has given you TWO HUGE GLARING ISSUES that are red flags for cheating. You need no more evidence to dig as deep as the center of the earth on him! IF he one day asks you why you "invaded his privacy" you explain that it was because of his actions. Besides, if you find nothing, he will never know you looked anyway, but that is beside the point.

I am sorry for all I felt compelled to write. I like my posts to be encouraging where they can be. You need a wake up call though. You are trying to shoulder most of the blame for a situation that your only fault is having a medical problem. That falls under the "in sickness and in health" part of the vows he took. I think he is up to quite a bit of cheating. Could I be dead wrong? Absolutely. But you need to find out. Like, now.


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