# Our way of finally relating the importance of mental foreplay.



## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

My husband and I are in marriage counseling currently. We are still new to it, so lots of issues are being placed on the table currently, wading through what's important to deal with and what's merely a symptom of larger issues.

One of the things that was brought up is that, for a long time, I have done the 'heavy lifting' in our sex life. Going into our marriage, I always felt that a healthy and frequent sex life is something to be nurtured, cared for and protected. Of course, in theory, he feels the same way...but wasn't really willing to do his fair share of the work. He was happy to be the recipient of fun, adventuresome evenings, but not so creative or energetic about creating them for me. 

And no matter how many times I tried to explain how important mental stimulation is to a great many women...he just didn't or didn't want to, get it. So, for him, it posed no problem for us to work on home chores all day, or budget bills, or some other mundane task, and then move straight into 'sexy time' with no forethought or flirtation previously. He is not a selfish lover in bed...he just was very adamant that any kind of 'pre-work' meant that the moment wasn't spontaneous at all and that it was more like a chore that he absolutely had to do in order to have sex. This of course, left me feeling very wanting, since I was very clear that it just isn't the whole package for me without the mental stimulation ahead of time.

Two decades of missing the point or near misses, etc. They can build up a lot of resentment over time. And we talked about this in our most recent session. After the session, we continued talking. For some reason out of the blue, I finally thought to compare it to a related topic that finally seemed to make sense to him. So, I thought I would share it here and see what others thought.


Sex without the mental buildup (for me at least), must be like getting oral sex from a woman that really doesn't want to give oral sex, but is doing it because it's a special occasion. 

The standing joke seems to be with guys is that there is no such thing as a bad blowjob...just varying degrees of greatness. A blowjob from a partner that really isn't into it and doesn't really care if they are there are not will never be as good as a blowjob from someone who is eager to be there, shows that eagerness willingly and who actually gets off on it. Even if the reluctant person has better actual skills, it's the enthusiasm that makes or breaks the deal. 

So, for me, sex without the mental foreplay is very much like that. I like sex, so yeah, at least something is better than nothing. But if my partner treats the mental foreplay begrudgingly, like a chore, then the sex is going to feel somewhat like that. But a man that LOVES to flirt and tease and make comments through the day to get my motor running....it doesn't matter his skill or size, his enthusiasm is going color my experience and make it so much hotter. I am so much more motivated by what I hear than what I see. 

Anyway...THAT description seemed to finally make him 'get it'. It looked like a light switch coming on in his head. He realized it wasn't about me 'making him work for it', and more about wanting to have the very best, most enthusiastic experience possible, which of course, would also create that for him. 

We are not anywhere close to resuming intimate evenings for a while...but maybe if we do, they will finally have a different feel to them.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Good post. I liked the point about spontaneity. I'm not sure if mental foreplay (or any foreplay for that matter) is a chore or a sex tax. Obviously not to you, for which you deserve kudos.

I actually feel a lot like you on the mental build up. I also enjoy it a lot and think it adds to the intimacy of the main event. I have heard it called the long simmer. Sex starts hours in advance, with flirting and touching. I've got to tell you that it doesn't always work very well.

On the long simmer road there seems to be a lot of exits. Starts are more common than destinations. Then there are break downs and pot holes. Perhaps our road is just too old.

Anyway I've added a new item to our foreplay lately. It doesn't always work, and some times it must be repeated 3 or more times. I call it knocking the kindle out of her hands. <Evil Grin>


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> Good post. I liked the point about spontaneity. I'm not sure if mental foreplay (or any foreplay for that matter) is a chore or a sex tax. Obviously not to you, for which you deserve kudos.
> 
> I actually feel a lot like you on the mental build up. I also enjoy it a lot and think it adds to the intimacy of the main event. I have heard it called the long simmer. Sex starts hours in advance, with flirting and touching. I've got to tell you that it doesn't always work very well.
> 
> ...


I'd be interested to know what she is reading--may be foreplay for her?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

if reading is foreplay, it must be for masturbation as she doesn't share her reading with me. But, I haven't yet heard of anyone suggesting 12 hours of foreplay daily for weekly sex.

To be honest like most families we share an amazon account. I have 100% access to her reading list. monts ago her llibedo exploded and she started reading literary pornography at the rate of over 20 books/ week. Sex was more enthusiastic and inventive, but still limited to 2 x per week. In the last month that surge has dropped off and her reading is tamed out to non sexual romances. well at least the author draws the curtains before penetration. I suspect that she will return to Science Fiction and YA novels before too long. I'd like her to spend about 50% less time in escapism.

To return to the thread topic, the real unfulfilled need in our relationship is intimate conversation. Strangely I am the one needing it. She is becoming more introverted and often leaves conversations to go back to the book.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Inside looking out,

I can surely see your point on needing that mental build up. Around our house we call it sexual tension. It has become a really important aspect for us. 
Like you my wife is much more responsive if she gets that build up. As with many things sexual, the tough part can often be getting a partner to see
things from your perspective. I would suggest that during those times that you do get that build up that you give him your best performance. That may
sound a bit like a trick or manipulation, but what your trying to create is that positive feedback loop. If he can come to the understanding that he is getting
your best when he is doing what you need .... then the pattern will continue. The tricky part is that he needs to come to this conclusion on his own
without your verbal prompting.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Thank you for sharing this OP!


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Mr.Married said:


> Inside looking out,
> 
> I can surely see your point on needing that mental build up. Around our house we call it sexual tension. It has become a really important aspect for us.
> Like you my wife is much more responsive if she gets that build up. As with many things sexual, the tough part can often be getting a partner to see
> ...


I like the description 'sexual tension'. That might also help to make it sound less 'chore-like'. 

There have been periods in our marriage where, after much cajoling or arguing, he would say he understood and begin to try to create an atmosphere of 'dating' and mental buildup (sexual tension...yup, that sounds so much better!). When he did, I made certain that acknowledged every sexy text, all advances throughout the day, etc, and made certain the time was made for a rendezvous, sometimes in some pretty fun places. 

But, then he would start to slip, or we would get busy with life's chores, and I would tell myself, he's been doing great and I don't want him to have to do all the heavy lifting all the time either. So, there we would go, back into the routine of sex when he wanted, even if I wasn't particularly turned on that evening. And that was hard input for my husband to decipher. Since I was having sex, he was still thinking that everything was okay and that he didn't have to keep up those levels of flirtation...or maybe he just was happy to be off the hook...I don't really know. 

I have the type of libido where, once intimacy is started, I will enjoy it. Knowing that about myself, puts me in this weird cycle of 'tricking' my brain into having sex, even when I don't feel like I really want it, especially if my husband has not done and said the things that would help switch me over into that mode. I hate that my desire for sex and my physical need for sex don't always match up. But, being that a healthy sex life is so extremely important to me, and has been the duration of our marriage, it's something that I have always been attentive to.

The funny, or sad, thing is...I was getting resentful because sex with very little sexual tension or buildup was feeling like a chore I had to do for marriage maintenance, the same way that he was feeling like it was a chore to have to flirt and build all that up so that we could have heated sex adventures. A lot of that problem leads into other, larger, problems in our marriage however.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Inside_Looking_Out said:


> There have been periods in our marriage where, after much cajoling or arguing, he would say he understood and begin to try to create an atmosphere of 'dating' and mental buildup (sexual tension...yup, that sounds so much better!). When he did, I made certain that acknowledged every sexy text, all advances throughout the day, etc, and made certain the time was made for a rendezvous, sometimes in some pretty fun places.


Yeah, that's important. From your first post, I was wondering if he might have a hidden fear that he could do "all that work" and then you might not follow through (like charlie brown and lucy with the football. That cartoon always seemed to be about sex.) 
But from what you say above, you've tried to make sure that is not the case.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think there is a lot of variation in people. I'm a guy and in my marriage I'm the one who would prefer more flirting and build-up during the day, and my wife is the one who fits sex in as one of the Sunday chores. Or situation is unusual though in that she is very low desire anyway. 

In an ideal world I would like a mix of long build-up and completely spontaneous. A romantic day with lots of hints and flirts, followed by long passionate love-making. Pouncing without warning, and hauling off to bed - or any nearby surface. Both are great, so do some of both.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

uhtred said:


> I think there is a lot of variation in people. I'm a guy and in my marriage I'm the one who would prefer more flirting and build-up during the day, and my wife is the one who fits sex in as one of the Sunday chores. Or situation is unusual though in that she is very low desire anyway.



You’re not alone. My wife and most of her friends are all in on work and kids. It’s on their minds 24/7 and her friends see it as a chore (even once a month) or in my wife’s case her hormones spike. But she keeps her sexuality to herself and never anything remotely sexual in front of the kids (even flirting). While some women do want the romance some are of the mindset that romance and flirting is not part of that season of life. My wife initiates most of the time because she keeps sex in a box and only brings it out when she is ready for it (i.e. no kid/work stress). Otherwise she treats me like a brother. Surprising her and pinning her down means she has to mentally close 130 open windows on her mental desktop before she can enjoy it. Can she it enjoy it? Yes. Does she orgasm? Usually. But like you I wish my wife would flirt but in her mind it’s something she doesn’t have to do anymore, like dating, getting dressed up, working out, etc.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> Surprising her and pinning her down means she has to mentally close 130 open windows on her mental desktop before she can enjoy it. Can she it enjoy it? Yes. Does she orgasm? Usually. But like you I wish my wife would flirt but in her mind it’s something she doesn’t have to do anymore, like dating, getting dressed up, working out, etc.


That's also a good way to describe the kind of mental load a lot of women carry (including myself). For me, the trick is not to close all the other windows, it's just making sure that the 'sex' window is the most recently looked at one...the one that is actually open on the desktop so to speak. (So many analogies! lol) It sounds like your wife is way more focused, and does have to shut those other ones down. For a while, I was really bad about that too. It really takes a desire to make sex the priority to do that. If she is not focused on that, then yes, you are certainly fighting a hard battle. And often times, it's not on purpose. It's simply not grasping the need for it, or that it's really a problem. Much like my husband not grasping the need to flirt with me more. 

Because I am a 'lists and to-do's' kind of person. And because my husband wasn't all that worried about helping me keep sex on the brain...I would schedule times to read dirty novels, I would even make reminders for myself to engage my husband. I had to...because he wasn't doing the work of flirting, I was never going to engage or make the first move ever. And I knew it was important for him to not always be the one to initiate. After a while of doing that, it became muscle memory kinda. However, I never got over the resentment that I was putting in the work of doing all that for us, but he wasn't willing to do the same for me. And that's part of where a black hole of problems started.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Did he flirt with you before you married? Some people are natural flirts and some aren't. He may feel silly or embarrassed or afraid you will think he is a horn dog or you just don't talk to your wife 'that' way. Does he cop a feel when he passes you? He can learn to do these things; but, if he really thinks it's a chore than he's basically a 'let's get down to business' kinda guy. What a drag. Good luck with educating him.


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## Spent (Jan 27, 2019)

Am I understanding correctly? There is not a NEED for sex or a DESIRE for sex without the extended foreplay? If so, what makes you want to initiate or participate in the foreplay to begin with? I only ask this because my wife says she does not FEEL the desire for sex, but once we start she then enjoys it, however, she is reluctant to begin the foreplay as she does not feel the NEED? If that makes sense. I am just not sure how to get past that? So do you make a conscious effort to remember the good parts from the time before to start?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Spent said:


> Am I understanding correctly? There is not a NEED for sex or a DESIRE for sex without the extended foreplay? If so, what makes you want to initiate or participate in the foreplay to begin with? I only ask this because my wife says she does not FEEL the desire for sex, but once we start she then enjoys it, however, she is reluctant to begin the foreplay as she does not feel the NEED? If that makes sense. I am just not sure how to get past that? So do you make a conscious effort to remember the good parts from the time before to start?


Read about spontaneous and responsive desire, please...


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Spent said:


> Am I understanding correctly? There is not a NEED for sex or a DESIRE for sex without the extended foreplay? If so, what makes you want to initiate or participate in the foreplay to begin with? I only ask this because my wife says she does not FEEL the desire for sex, but once we start she then enjoys it, however, she is reluctant to begin the foreplay as she does not feel the NEED? If that makes sense. I am just not sure how to get past that? So do you make a conscious effort to remember the good parts from the time before to start?


To a degree, yes. Its a hard thing to put into words, others have done it more eloquently than I can. So, yes, read a lot about Responsive and Spontaneous Desire as another poster suggested as well. Here is just one article on it to get you started. 

https://www.uncoveringintimacy.com/responsive-vs-spontaneous-desire/

For me...I love sex. I really really do. However, for whatever reason, my body just does not want to kick it into overdrive unless I pointedly think about. There will never be a time in my life where I will walk down the street, doing errands, see a hot looking dude and think...I am ready to have sex right this second just because I saw that dude. There will never be a time (probably), where I am paying bills and in the middle of paying bills, I think, I could use some sex right now. However, there are times that I think, 'Man, I really wish I were turned on right now...so I decide to read a smutty book.' I literally have to decide I want to be horny. I have to decide that I want to have sex. And since I know it's important to myself, and to my marriage, I have always made it a point to decide to want it.

What I have asked my husband's help with is, 'Please help me keep sex on my mind, so that it is easier for me to want to initiate and to engage.' 
For him...that was a lot of 'homework' that he kind of resented. 

But it didn't have to be that hard. This scenario happened one time...and one time only: I was out doing errands and he texted me to tell me that he couldn't wait for me to get home and for us to have an evening together. It was nice to hear, but not anything that would really rev my engine really. He says stuff like that pretty frequently. But then he sent an additional text. He told me that while I was out and about, that he wanted me to go shopping and pick out a pretty piece of lingerie to wear that night...and that he was going to be thinking about all the ways he is looking forward to taking it off of me when he finally gets to see it. Holy smokes...I was so hot by the time I got home...I couldn't wait to put on my new purchase just so he could take it off. 

Now a lot of guys would think it was the lingerie itself that made it so hot. It wasn't.... It was that he figured out a way for me to think about sex literally all day long. I had to think about it while I was looking for the store to shop in...I thought about it while looking through the racks of clothes. I thought about how hot the sex was going to be that night while looking the mirror in the dressing room trying them one. I thought about it the whole drive home. I was so worked up by the time I got home, it was some of the best sex we had had in a while. 

For a couple of weeks after that, I kept hoping for some kind of repeat of that. But he figured, he had done that one time, and shouldn't have to do it again. I tried to explain to him why it made it so hot, and told him I would love it if he did that more often (at least from time to time). It could taking a trip to a adult novelty shop for a new device to add into the bedroom. Or it could be planning out a sexy meal and then date night after. 

All of it has to do with creating an atmosphere of anticipation. I don't need it ALL the time. I can create it myself, for myself and him, quite often. But I didn't want to be the ONLY one doing it...that's what made me resentful about it. 

I don't know if that explained anything all that well or not. I hope it was a little helpful.


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## Spent (Jan 27, 2019)

ILO think you for the lengthy explanation, yes that does explain a lot. To be honest after seeing your view of your role in explaining your needs to your H and working on TRYING to keep it on your mind and make it important, I realize some of the issues I am dealing with as well. My wife does not NEED sex. I get that part. However, if I suggest any changes to what we are doing she takes that as a insult or like I am saying she is not good enough or not making enough of an effort. If I attempt to send text or make comments, as you say to "get her mind on it" she sees that as being a typical man with only one thing on his mind. 

So I am starting to think her sex drive may not be much different than many of the women who post on here, but her attitude about the importance of the sexual relationship is what is different. Many Women here seem to understand the importance and work on keeping it a part of their marriage, while my wife seems to still view it as a burden that just just has to do from time to time. I am just not sure how to change someones attitude towards that?


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Spent said:


> ILO think you for the lengthy explanation, yes that does explain a lot. To be honest after seeing your view of your role in explaining your needs to your H and working on TRYING to keep it on your mind and make it important, I realize some of the issues I am dealing with as well. My wife does not NEED sex. I get that part. However, if I suggest any changes to what we are doing she takes that as a insult or like I am saying she is not good enough or not making enough of an effort. If I attempt to send text or make comments, as you say to "get her mind on it" she sees that as being a typical man with only one thing on his mind.
> 
> So I am starting to think her sex drive may not be much different than many of the women who post on here, but her attitude about the importance of the sexual relationship is what is different. Many Women here seem to understand the importance and work on keeping it a part of their marriage, while my wife seems to still view it as a burden that just just has to do from time to time. I am just not sure how to change someones attitude towards that?


That's a hard one. Many women really don't understand the importance of a great sex life. I am not exactly sure why that is. 

My sister is one of them, and she has never been able to explain it to me in a way I could completely grasp. She stayed so resentful of her partners' sex drives throughout several relationships. At first, I thought it might have been an inexperienced partner. She would just stay so mad about it. But then through two failed marriages, and a few long terms relationships that also failed, it was just plain that she was very low drive and that she just didn't want to be bothered by it. She finally found someone that is also low drive, but actually, so low drive, that now SHE is the one that has to ask for it lol. It seems to work for them, but it was really painful to watch as she struggled through those other relationships. But, she was also of the mindset that she shouldn't HAVE to try or push herself at all. It always made me feel very badly for her partners, because I could see how much hurt it caused between them.

I don't know if I would be considered high or low drive myself. It's that Catch 22 of 'I want to want sex' quite frequently, but if my husband wasn't willing to engage it at all, then I would be just as fine to leave it. 

I am not sure what the best way would be to explain to your wife that its not just about the sex for you. (I am making a couple of assumptions.) If you are like my husband, and most men, sex is the way you emotionally connect with your wife. It's hard to want to tend to her emotional needs if you are not getting sex. Not because you are trying to create a tit for tat scenario, but because you need sex to connect and feel empathetic and vulnerable enough that you can then be closer to her emotional needs. I understood this about my husband, so I wasn't resentful about providing sex so that he could have that. However, he didn't comprehend that I was doing that FOR him and that he needed to try to do the same for ME. He just kinda assumed that I must be getting my needs met through sex just the same way he was, and that I just wanted all that other stuff (the emotional needs, the flirting, etc) because I was being greedy or needy or just hard to please. 

It may be that you are going to have to keep reiterating it in several different ways to her. Pick up a couple of books, the posters on here will have some good ones to look for I am sure. If she sees you putting an effort into understanding it better, maybe she will be more apt to listen to what you are saying.


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