# Talking about fantasies



## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

For our entire marriage, I have been the more sexually adventurous one. It has always been me to be the one to suggest new things and ideas to keep the fires burning. On more than one occasion, I have asked my wife if she had any fantasies that she wanted to explore or ideas that she wanted to talk about. I can't get anything out of her. When I ask, she just says that she really doesn't have any. At first, I thought that maybe she was just too embarrassed to talk about it but now I'm not sure what to think. Anyone else have any experience in trying to get their SO to open up and let you in on their fantasies?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> For our entire marriage, I have been the more sexually adventurous one. It has always been me to be the one to suggest new things and ideas to keep the fires burning. On more than one occasion, I have asked my wife if she had any fantasies that she wanted to explore or ideas that she wanted to talk about. I can't get anything out of her. When I ask, she just says that she really doesn't have any. At first, I thought that maybe she was just too embarrassed to talk about it but now I'm not sure what to think. Anyone else have any experience in trying to get their SO to open up and let you in on their fantasies?


I'm in your boat buddy.

My ex-wife wasn't very open at all, I got one fantasy (if you want to call it that) out of her where she said she liked to have her feet (mainly the toes) licked during foreplay. And that took until we had been together for about 8 years or so before she mentioned that. 

For my fiancee, all I ever got out of her was that she wanted to try sex while using her vibrator (me from behind) and to use a sex swing. We did the vibrator thing after we had been together for a few years and even though she said she really enjoyed it, it was at least another two years before we did it again, even though I said I was open to it whenever she wants.

The sex swing hasn't happened yet.

At first I was like you, thinking she ws embarrassed or something, but now I think she's honestly pretty much just wrapped up her sex life and is fine with just staying the way it is. She says she still enjoys sex, but has no desires, no fantasies, nothing other than the same old. I've given up on even asking anymore because it's just the same conversation over and over. No fighting or anything, just me asking if she wants to try something or do something and her saying "No, I'm good."

After a while you just quit asking. I'll admit though, it must be nice to be in her (and your wife's) shoes, knowing that you can get pretty much whatever you want (within reason), whenever you want and all you have to do is ask. I wonder if that's why they don't think more about what they want, because to them, it's not really much of a challenge to get it.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> At first I was like you, thinking she ws embarrassed or something, but now I think she's honestly pretty much just wrapped up her sex life and is fine with just staying the way it is. *She says she still enjoys sex, but has no desires, no fantasies, nothing other than the same old.* I've given up on even asking anymore because it's just the same conversation over and over. No fighting or anything, just me asking if she wants to try something or do something and her saying "No, I'm good."
> 
> After a while you just quit asking.


You got it. This is where I'm at. There has to be something that can be said/done to bring out some sort of response. I just don't know what. I have always thought that almost everyone has something that they would like to try deep down inside but for one reason or the other, could not bring themselves to say it. Now, I'm not sure if that is correct. Of course, she has not really been exposed to much (no porn, no "Cosmo" magazines, trashy novels, etc) that might give her ideas. Almost everything she knows has either come from me or we have discovered together.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> You got it. This is where I'm at. There has to be something that can be said/done to bring out some sort of response. I just don't know what. I have always thought that almost everyone has something that they would like to try deep down inside but for one reason or the other, could not bring themselves to say it. Now, I'm not sure if that is correct. Of course, she has not really been exposed to much (no porn, no "Cosmo" magazines, trashy novels, etc) that might give her ideas. Almost everything she knows has either come from me or we have discovered together.


Something that made me chuckle and roll my eyes is my fiancee admitting about two weeks ago that porn gets her in the mood. I knew she used to watch porn, but we've been together for over five years and this is the first time she told me that.

After many longwinded discussions about our sex life, including several where I indicated I wanted to try new things, or just not get into a rut, she never once mentioned the idea of watching porn together. Or even her watching it and coming to see me after.

My ex-wife was the same way, only she ws a total ***** about it. While my fiancee will talk to me about it, my ex-wife would tell me that if I didn't like it to "go find someone else."

You want to know what evoked change and ideas in my ex-wife? When I said I was leaving. For a while after I left, I was getting offered as much as I wanted, and I likely could have got almost whatever I wanted as well. Because the routine was changed, because I had forced change in the relationship. She was uncomfortable where she was and as a result she wanted to make things stable again. Thus, she basically wrote me a blank check with her body.

I didn't cash it because there was a lot more wrong in my marriage than the sex. It was a problem but it wasn't even a top five reason. 

In my relationship now, I know if I said I was walking due to our sex life, my faincee would likely react similar, and offer me close to whatever I wanted sexually in order to stay. But I'm not going to do that. The rest of our relationship is good, and as such I don't want to give that all up for a chance at a better sex life. 

I just wish people could understand that the way things are at the start of a relationship can continue long after, if you want to work at it. Don't allow yourself to fall into a rut, because that just breeds anger and resentment. That initial newness and lust may die off, but it's replaced with love and what emotion should have more power in a relationship; lust or love? 

I always thought love should, but I guess I was wrong/stupid, at least regarding sex. Outside of rare marriages, like Jaquen's or CreatedtoWrite's, you can't seem to have a great sex life and a great everything else in a marriage. It's like they are two totally different relationships and one always suffers, usually the sex life.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

lol your wife sounds like mine, the only fantasy i could get out of her is she wanted to be woke up to me starting to have sex with her (touching kissing)


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

My SO swears he doesn't fantasize.I always share stuff with him but he usually doesn't have much to say in return. 

I'm starting to think maybe he really doesn't have a particular fantasy other than just having sex. lol

Wish I had some advice for ya.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

terrence4159 said:


> lol your wife sounds like mine, the only fantasy i could get out of her is she wanted to be woke up to me starting to have sex with her (touching kissing)


I told my fiancee (and I'm pretty sure my ex-wife as well) I'd love to be woken up to have sex in the middle of the night. I've told my fiancee I'd love to get woken up by a BJ.

It's been close to 17 years since I first started dating my ex-wife, so that's about 5,800 sleeps. Zero wake ups. If it was the other way around, my ex-wife and my now fiancee would have been awaken on the first night after they told me that.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

So far, no women posters. I wonder if this is predominately more an issue where the female has trouble opening up or if it is more evenly split.

King, like you, my marriage is good and I'm certainly not willing to make any drastic moves just to spice things up. I'm actually pretty happy (except maybe up the frequency a bit). It would just really be nice if I could get some more input from the other half of the marriage when it comes to keeping things interesting.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> So far, no women posters. I wonder if this is predominately more an issue where the female has trouble opening up or if it is more evenly split.


hello


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> If it was the other way around, my ex-wife and my now fiancee would have been awaken on the first night after they told me that.


I know, right? I've mentioned all sorts of things that I have said that I would love to have happen. Small things. Nothing big at all. It goes ignored. But if she were to tell me the slightest thing that she desires, I would move heaven and earth to make it happen immediately or as soon as humanly possible.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> hello


You beat me to the punch. Posting crossover. I'm glad to see that this isn't just a female thing. So what do you believe? Do you think he actually has fantasies but is too embarrassed to share or does his mind really not work that way?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> You beat me to the punch. Posting crossover. I'm glad to see that this isn't just a female thing. So what do you believe? Do you think he actually has fantasies but is too embarrassed to share or does his mind really not work that way?


I don't think his mind works that way.He's a bit of an odd one.At first I didn't believe him at all.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> I know, right? I've mentioned all sorts of things that I have said that I would love to have happen. Small things. Nothing big at all. It goes ignored. But if she were to tell me the slightest thing that she desires, I would move heaven and earth to make it happen immediately or as soon as humanly possible.


Exactly.

And I wonder if that's the reason why it's not reciprocated, because they know they already have you (and me) hooked, based on your (and my) desire to give them what they want. What's their motivation?

Arguably we could say the motivation should be to keep your partner happy, but they don't hold sex to as high of a standard as we do and as such it either doesn't register, or they just don't think about it much and likely forget what we have said. 

I know for example my fiancee promised me a wake up BJ over a year ago. I doubt she even remembers that I want one, nevermind that she said I would get one. 

I think the fact that it is the small things you want which makes it worse. if you were after anal, or after a threesome and getting told no, it'd be very understandable. But a little spice in the bedroom, especially something like a BJ, is very normal and common, and yet you feel like an ass for even asking what she wants for the 125,647th time because you know what the answer will be.

"Nothing, I'm happy the way things are."

Funny how they don't ask you if you are happy, even though they would ask that about anything else in the marriage. Just shows that they view sex as a burden, not as something to work on in the marriage.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I don't think his mind works that way.He's a bit of an odd one.At first I didn't believe him at all.


I think I'm falling in that camp. At first, I was like "no way...you HAVE to have some sort of hidden desire/fantasy, etc". But over the years, I've grown to believe that she just does not have the capacity to think creatively when it comes to things like this. 
Throughout my career, I have attended many seminars and workshops to enhance creativity in the workplace. I wonder if that can be applied in situations like this...:scratchhead:


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Arguably we could say the motivation should be to keep your partner happy, but they don't hold sex to as high of a standard as we do and as such it either doesn't register, or *they just don't think about it much and likely forget what we have said*.


Couldn't have said this better myself. 



kingsfan said:


> Just shows that they view sex as a burden, not as something to work on in the marriage.


I don't think that my wife necessarily views sex as a burden, but more like something that doesn't rise to the level of needing her effort and attention on a consistent basis.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I think my fiancee views sex about equal to doing the laundry. Not the worst job in the house, but she'd rather be watching TV.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I think my fiancee views sex about equal to doing the laundry. Not the worst job in the house, but she'd rather be watching TV.


Ouch. That's gotta hurt.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

In my life I've lived almost every sexual fantasy I'd ever want... but when we got together, she fulfilled even more. I can't complain, but I don't ask her about fantasies (*sigh*) due to her affair. It's like I lost interest in her fantasies in a way.


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## Dilly (Apr 15, 2011)

Woman here. My husband is very vocal about his fantasies, they are usually all in the same vein... group sex, watching another man take me etc. He talks about his fantasies almost every single time we are intimate. He constantly urges me to share my thoughts and fantasies with him. Trouble is, although he says he wants to hear about MY fantasies, it's really more that he just wants me to fantasize with him about what turns HIM on. I can do that, and I do but I don't really get turned on by his fantasies. And I've discovered that when I do share what's in my head, it either disappoints him because it's not naughty enough, it is not what turns him on, H finds something wrong with it (and inadvertently makes me feel bad about sharing said fantasy) or he takes what I am fantasizing about and inserts HIS fantasy, twisting it altogether and it just ruins it for me. I'd rather it stay in my head and be what I need it to be.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Dilly said:


> Woman here. My husband is very vocal about his fantasies, they are usually all in the same vein... group sex, watching another man take me etc. He talks about his fantasies almost every single time we are intimate. He constantly urges me to share my thoughts and fantasies with him. Trouble is, although he says he wants to hear about MY fantasies, it's really more that he just wants me to fantasize with him about what turns HIM on. I can do that, and I do but I don't really get turned on by his fantasies. And I've discovered that when I do share what's in my head, it either disappoints him because it's not naughty enough, it is not what turns him on, H finds something wrong with it (and inadvertently makes me feel bad about sharing said fantasy) or he takes what I am fantasizing about and inserts HIS fantasy, twisting it altogether and it just ruins it for me. I'd rather it stay in my head and be what I need it to be.


Interesting take, thanks for sharing. Could you explain what "I need it to be" means?


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Dilly said:


> Woman here. My husband is very vocal about his fantasies, they are usually all in the same vein... group sex, watching another man take me etc. He talks about his fantasies almost every single time we are intimate. He constantly urges me to share my thoughts and fantasies with him. Trouble is, although he says he wants to hear about MY fantasies, it's really more that he just wants me to fantasize with him about what turns HIM on. I can do that, and I do but I don't really get turned on by his fantasies. And I've discovered that when I do share what's in my head, it either disappoints him because it's not naughty enough, it is not what turns him on, H finds something wrong with it (and inadvertently makes me feel bad about sharing said fantasy) or he takes what I am fantasizing about and inserts HIS fantasy, twisting it altogether and it just ruins it for me. I'd rather it stay in my head and be what I need it to be.


I would think that holding back and feeling like you have to keep things to yourself can cause resentment. Do you feel that way? Has hubby ever tried to "force" you into doing things you are not comfortable with?


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## Dilly (Apr 15, 2011)

What I need it to be... There have been times, like I said that I have shared and if it doesn't suit H, he'll change it. So now, it's out there and it is no longer something that works for me. Grrrrr! The effort it takes to cultivate a good fantasy and then it's warped into something that no longer turns me on!? Also, men seem to have this NEED to make fantasies into a reality. I don't need that, I don't want that. But that's just me.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Dilly said:


> What I need it to be... There have been times, like I said that I have shared and if it doesn't suit H, he'll change it. So now, it's out there and it is no longer something that works for me. Grrrrr! The effort it takes to cultivate a good fantasy and then it's warped into something that no longer turns me on!? Also, men seem to have this NEED to make fantasies into a reality. I don't need that, I don't want that. But that's just me.


So you mean you use the fantasy to get you aroused, in the mood, to orgasm, or some other sexual need, and him interposing himself into the fantasy and twisting it ruins it for you? I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly. If I do, I can understand how that could be a problem and why you'd want to keep that to yourself.

I think men do want to make fantasies a reality because A) it's them in the reality, not someone else, and B) men I think have this basic drive to want to fix things. I think men view a woman's fantasy as something that is unfulfilled or incomplete (IE broken) and they want to fix it (IE make the fantasy real). To us, when we have a fantasy, it's something we want to see acted out, not just kept in our head, and I think we just assume that women feel the same way as well. That's our flaw.

And I'm just talking men in general, not all men, and not necessarily your man either.

I hope everything works out well for you. Perhaps find a fantasy that works for you and tuck it away and never ever tell him, but still try to think up other things you'd like to try that you don't mind telling him or don't mind risk having ruined by him wanting to act them out.

Btw, how comfortable are you with his fantasies? Things like threesomes, group sex, sharing your spouse, etc. can cause a lot of unease for some.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Dilly said:


> Also, men seem to have this NEED to make fantasies into a reality. I don't need that, I don't want that. But that's just me.


When it comes to having threesomes and having other men have sex with you, I can definitely see where that needs to stay in the realm of the fantasy and not be brought to reality. But what about those "mild" fantasies that Plan 9 mentioned (being woken up with a bj)? Fantasy might be a strong word. What I'm trying to find out from my wife is...does she have any hidden or unspoken desires that might really turn her on that we might be able to try. So is your husband stuck in the "extreme" version of fantasy? Do you have unspoken things that you *would* like to try? I agree that some fantasies are meant to stay just that...a fantasy.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Wow...talk about careful what you ask for. I ask the big guy what's he would like everytime. I get things like "you know the usual" or "same menu as last nights good for me".... I got real frustrated with him and made him tell me one of his fanyacies...ok I am thinking he'll come up with something we can try. Oh my!?!?!!! Well there were multiple people and one person directing...that's all I am goi g to elaborate on. Well back to using my imagination...I'm thinking a blindfold, cuffs and a camera!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

This a fairly common issue and one where I think it's important for a guy to remind himself that:

Your wife is not you, you know---she' not a guy.


Her blood's not filled with Testosterone

Women are sexual...but it's a different sexuality

It's aroused differently, it works differently, it's experienced differently

I remember the first time I heard the term “spank bank” (that cache of mental images of HOT females men collect to erm...'use' later)

Gosh...seemed so odd...so foreign...because it so doesn't work like that for me...

And as I go through the day, if I see a guy and find him to be VERY attractive...the first thing I imagine is NEVER what he must look like naked 

Instead, I'd tend to imagine him being really smart, clever and funny and us having some sort of meaningful/fun interaction/conversation....where we're clearly compatible and he's totally into me...and that gives me a dopamine rush

And then, if we talk, and he happens to be unintelligent and droll...and nothing like the guy I pictured in my 'fanstasy'...well, I'll lose all attraction to him...AND I mean it'll be TOTALLY impossible for me to be able to see him as attractive anymore...and I definitely would have zero interest in anything sexual

Pretty sure most guys would still want to sleep with a REALLY hot woman, even if she'd turned them off in terms of being someone they'd be interested in long term.

So my point is: Your wife very likely doesn't have sexual fantasies the way you do...because women aren't WIRED to be as 'overtly' sexual

And it's not that women aren't sexual 

It's just that, as a class, we don't 'lead' with our sexual foot...and I'm pretty sure there are biological reasons for that, such as:

Women are physically weaker, so they have to be more cautious (instinctively)

Also, as females (humans and other animals) are the primary caretakers of any offspring...there's naturally a strong instinctive drive to fulfill that role...and that's stronger than their sex drive

This is not true for males. Nature compels them to lead with their sexual-side

Your wife can have fantasies though...probably VERY excellent, hot fantasies...but I think that women(especially those in a long-term, stable relationship) often have to 'activate' their sexual side by conscious choice...or psych themselves up

And she should do that for you...if you're a good husband

But don't think she naturally fantasizes as much as you do and is just holding out on you...because that's most likely untrue

And it's just because her brain chemistry is different from yours...


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> This a fairly common issue and one where I think it's important for a guy to remind himself that:
> 
> Your wife is not you, you know---she' not a guy.
> 
> ...


Excellent post, India. I believe that you have probably encapsulated where my thoughts have been leading me over the past several years of my marriage. While frustrating at times, I have come to the realization that she is different and, like you said, she does not see things the same way as I do. Still, it would be nice to be able to find a way to get more closely aligned.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

IndiaInk... First off, tremendous post. Thank you for explaining it the way you have. Greatly appreciated.

Secondly, I have a question. You say women don't "have sexual fantasies the way you do...because women aren't WIRED to be as 'overtly' sexual...And it's not that women aren't sexual...It's just that, as a class, we don't 'lead' with our sexual foot."

I think myself and Zatol understand that women don't fantasize as much as men on average. And we are ok with that. But are you saying or suggesting that women never fantasize or what to experiment or try something new? Because we aren't talking about just a daily thought process, we are talking about years, or even decades, in a long-term relationship and the wife after all that time claiming to not even have any sexual fantasies she wants to try. 

As a woman, does this sound right/possible?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> But are you saying or suggesting that women never fantasize or what to experiment or try something new? Because we aren't talking about just a daily thought process, we are talking about years, or even decades, in a long-term relationship and the wife after all that time claiming to not even have any sexual fantasies she wants to try.
> 
> As a woman, does this sound right/possible?


Doesn't sound possible.I fantasize constantly.It's part of my life.It keeps boredom away,it keeps me awake while I'm driving,it keeps my heart and my body focused on SO too.

There is no down side to fantasy and if you've got an imagination,not using it is a waste.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> I think myself and Zatol understand that women don't fantasize as much as men on average.


This sounds about right. My wife also doesn't fantasize about sex AFAIK. Her desires in bed are fairly typical, she wants to be 'taken' and that is just about it. 

However, she did agree to fulfill all my ideas and there are plenty of them even if some of it is a bit eccentric.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I think myself and Zatol understand that women don't fantasize as much as men on average. And we are ok with that.


As a woman I have to challenge this way of thinking 

If women don't fantasize as much as men on average,how are all these romance and more recently the bdsm novels so incredibly popular?The whole story is based on pure fantasy and women all over the place eat it up like skittles.

We fantasize.A LOT.We might simply be too repressed to share it out loud


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## Dilly (Apr 15, 2011)

@Kingsfan



> So you mean you use the fantasy to get you aroused, in the mood, to orgasm, or some other sexual need, and him interposing himself into the fantasy and twisting it ruins it for you?


I don’t really need a fantasy to get me in the mood, my fantasies (if you can call them that) tend to formulate when I am in the heat of the moment, building up to an orgasm. Images, thoughts, feelings… my mind jumps around a LOT so when my H asks what I am thinking about I don’t know what to say. My brain is on OVERLOAD and it’s hard to verbalize. So many jumbled thoughts and feelings that even later on are hard to describe. Most of those thoughts only occur when I am about to climax. They disappear as soon as I am done. It feels strange to try and conjure them up again later on when they are not part of my normal thinking. Does that make sense? 




> I think men do want to make fantasies a reality because A) it's them in the reality, not someone else, and B) men I think have this basic drive to want to fix things. I think men view a woman's fantasy as something that is unfulfilled or incomplete (IE broken) and they want to fix it (IE make the fantasy real). To us, when we have a fantasy, it's something we want to see acted out, not just kept in our head, and I think we just assume that women feel the same way as well. That's our flaw.


I agree with you and this is what freaks me out. Maybe it’s just me, but I have a real concern that if I share what crazy thoughts are in my head my H will push to make it a reality. I DO NOT WANT THAT. I don’t want to have a threesome, I don’t want to go to a sex party. Can I, will I, fantasize with my H about those things? Sure! But why does it become such an obsession with our guys? It gets to a point that every time I share a fantasy I feel like I am starting a forest fire? Lol, maybe that’s just my situation? 





> Perhaps find a fantasy that works for you and tuck it away and never ever tell him, but still try to think up other things you'd like to try that you don't mind telling him or don't mind risk having ruined by him wanting to act them out.


I don’t mind sharing when there’s something that I know will work for both of us. He really enjoys that and I like that I can get him so excited. However, it’s frustrating when it always has to be about a fantasy. Maybe that’s just how it is in my relationship. He has a difficult time staying erect and the fantasies seem to be the only thing that get him/keep him hard. I’m sort of stuck in that if I don’t play along, PIV isn’t happening. 




> Btw, how comfortable are you with his fantasies? Things like threesomes, group sex, sharing your spouse, etc. can cause a lot of unease for some.


Like I said earlier, I don’t mind playing along with his fantasies, but I don’t like it when it’s all he wants to talk about. I am not into threesomes, group sex, being shared. It just doesn't turn me on. I can talk dirty and spin a fantasy about those things that will make his toes curl, but I don’t really want to bring it out of the bedroom. I don’t want to be pushed into talking about it as if I would actually DO those things in real life. How do I indulge him in the bedroom without crushing his cookies later on? Where does fantasy end and reality come back in?


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## Dilly (Apr 15, 2011)

I agree with Scarlet, women do fantasize a lot. But at least with me, it is about romantic things that don't get men all that excited. Why bother sharing it when I know my H won't find it erotic enough?


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## dontKnowMe2 (Apr 2, 2013)

Dilly said:


> I agree with Scarlet, women do fantasize a lot. But at least with me, it is about romantic things that don't get men all that excited. Why bother sharing it when I know my H won't find it erotic enough?


You want your man to share things and be close to you right? But you don't want to bother to do that for him?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> As a woman I have to challenge this way of thinking
> 
> If women don't fantasize as much as men on average,how are all these romance and more recently the bdsm novels so incredibly popular?The whole story is based on pure fantasy and women all over the place eat it up like skittles.
> 
> We fantasize.A LOT.We might simply be too repressed to share it out loud


If all women were like you Scarlet, this forum wouldn't exist, or be used solely as an endless bragfest and idea swap. 

I think romance novels, Fifty Shades, etc. is a lot like pornography is to men. Women get stimulated in different ways than men, and as such we have different stimuli. But that a different form of 'fantasy' really. This thread is about fantasy within the confines of a relationship. Me 'fantasizing' about getting with the big breasted porn star who is giving the most wicked hummer I've ever seen is not at all comparable to fantasizing about my fiancee giving my a BJ. I'm sure many women who read Fifty Shades and got excited by it wouldn't fantasize about their spouse in the same fashion either.

I think, on average, women in a relationship, fantasize a lot less, if at all, in comparision with the men in the relationship.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Dilly said:


> @Kingsfan
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t really need a fantasy to get me in the mood, my fantasies (if you can call them that) tend to formulate when I am in the heat of the moment, building up to an orgasm. Images, thoughts, feelings… my mind jumps around a LOT so when my H asks what I am thinking about I don’t know what to say. My brain is on OVERLOAD and it’s hard to verbalize. So many jumbled thoughts and feelings that even later on are hard to describe. Most of those thoughts only occur when I am about to climax. They disappear as soon as I am done. It feels strange to try and conjure them up again later on when they are not part of my normal thinking. Does that make sense?


Once again, a huge thanks for commenting. It's greatly insightful to read your words and get the other perspective.

Your words do make sense. My only question would be, do you feel there is no value to trying to sort out those thoughts during a time when sex isn't part of the picture and perhaps formulating what would be a good fantasy to share?



Dilly said:


> I agree with you and this is what freaks me out. Maybe it’s just me, but I have a real concern that if I share what crazy thoughts are in my head my H will push to make it a reality. I DO NOT WANT THAT. I don’t want to have a threesome, I don’t want to go to a sex party. Can I, will I, fantasize with my H about those things? Sure! But why does it become such an obsession with our guys? It gets to a point that every time I share a fantasy I feel like I am starting a forest fire? Lol, maybe that’s just my situation?


I can understand your thought process, and I agree with it. Out of curiousity, does your H act the same way regarding things you've done in the past with other men (if any)? Does he push to also do those things?




Dilly said:


> I don’t mind sharing when there’s something that I know will work for both of us. He really enjoys that and I like that I can get him so excited.


So you do share your fantasies? That's great! It's also a bit different than what I think Zatol is discussing, in that in his relationship (and in mine) virtually no ideas/fantasies are being brought forward, and this has been ongoing for years or decades. But kudos to you for bringing forward your ideas and promoting novelty in your martial bed.



Dilly said:


> However, it’s frustrating when it always has to be about a fantasy. Maybe that’s just how it is in my relationship. He has a difficult time staying erect and the fantasies seem to be the only thing that get him/keep him hard. I’m sort of stuck in that if I don’t play along, PIV isn’t happening.


That is a problem. I assume that this has been ongoing for a long time. Have you discussed seeing a doctor/counsellor?



Dilly said:


> Like I said earlier, I don’t mind playing along with his fantasies, but I don’t like it when it’s all he wants to talk about. I am not into threesomes, group sex, being shared. It just doesn't turn me on. I can talk dirty and spin a fantasy about those things that will make his toes curl, but I don’t really want to bring it out of the bedroom. I don’t want to be pushed into talking about it as if I would actually DO those things in real life. How do I indulge him in the bedroom without crushing his cookies later on? Where does fantasy end and reality come back in?


Fantasy ends in the bedroom. And you make that clear that while we are 'roleplaying' a scenario here, once that bedroom door opens again, that role is dead (until the next time, if there is one). And that the only two who will ever walk through that bedroom door is you and your H.


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## Dilly (Apr 15, 2011)

don'tknowme, I HAVE tried to do that for him. I've tried sharing my fantasies and he just doesn't get excited by them, finds them lacking and therefore atempts to change them - verbally taking MY fantasy and altering it to something completely different that suits him but no longer turns me on. So I open up this part of myself to him and end up feeling rejected. That's a lot of fun.


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## dontKnowMe2 (Apr 2, 2013)

That does suck Dilly. Rejection seems to be a common theme around here.


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## Dilly (Apr 15, 2011)

@ Kingsfan



> do you feel there is no value to trying to sort out those thoughts during a time when sex isn't part of the picture and perhaps formulating what would be a good fantasy to share?


I think it’s a really good idea. I like talking things through and figuring stuff like this out. Trick is to not make H feel defensive about it. It’s ironic, he is always telling me how much he wants to be accepted (sexually, he is the guy that would love to be naked 24/7) but he can’t see that he rejects my ideas/fantasies when I put them out there. This might be a good date night discussion.



> Out of curiousity, does your H act the same way regarding things you've done in the past with other men (if any)? Does he push to also do those things?


I've done more with him that I have with anyone else. I am up for adventures, toys, trying new things to spice things up. He has pushed me sexually more than any other man I've been with. There are things that I do for him/with him because he wants me to. They aren't my favorite, I do it because I enjoy pleasing him. 

I am opening to trying new things. However I am limited to what we can do due to some ED issues so I usually just go with what he wants. It’s possible I keep a lot of my fantasies repressed because reality frustrates our potential. 



> That is a problem. I assume that this has been ongoing for a long time. Have you discussed seeing a doctor/counsellor?


ED is such a difficult thing to discuss. I don’t want to bring it up because it just makes him defensive and then he withdraws from me. I have suggested seeing a doctor and he claims it’s just normal for a guy his age (he just turned 40). He doesn’t act like it’s a big deal. (This is a whole post in itself.) 



> Fantasy ends in the bedroom. And you make that clear that while we are 'roleplaying' a scenario here, once that bedroom door opens again, that role is dead (until the next time, if there is one). And that the only two who will ever walk through that bedroom door is you and your H.


I like this.


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## Snow cherry (Apr 24, 2013)

I've never mentioned any of my fantasies with H because they all involve scenarios that would make him jealous and he'd be upset. He's never actually asked me if I have any though. If he did ask and I could think of one that was something he could do with me, I think I could tell him...it sounds bad but all my fantasies are just that, they are fantasies that I never will do in real life and my H isn't always in them.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

i have never been asked by my H but if he did ask, I'm not quite sure I would spill the beans. The truth is, I fantasize every time we have sex or oral sex. I think my fantasies are taboo and anyone who heard them would probably be shocked that they came out of my mind. Sometimes I wonder if I ever really would like them to be for real, and I'm not sure. It sure would embarass me to speak them, though. Maybe because I'd be laughed at, maybe because my H would be offended, maybe because it would really be unbelievable that that is my fantasy. And I'm pretty consistent - I've had the same variation of fantasies since I'm young.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

IsGirl3 said:


> i have never been asked by my H but if he did ask, I'm not quite sure I would spill the beans. The truth is, I fantasize every time we have sex or oral sex. I think my fantasies are taboo and anyone who heard them would probably be shocked that they came out of my mind. Sometimes I wonder if I ever really would like them to be for real, and I'm not sure. It sure would embarass me to speak them, though. Maybe because I'd be laughed at, maybe because my H would be offended, maybe because it would really be unbelievable that that is my fantasy. And I'm pretty consistent - I've had the same variation of fantasies since I'm young.


i could have typed this. wow! i am floored that you spoke my thoughts and situation nearly exactly how it is for me lol


as an aside,i dont want any of my fantasies to come true.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> IndiaInk... First off, tremendous post. Thank you for explaining it the way you have. Greatly appreciated.
> 
> Secondly, I have a question. You say women don't "have sexual fantasies the way you do...because women aren't WIRED to be as 'overtly' sexual...And it's not that women aren't sexual...It's just that, as a class, we don't 'lead' with our sexual foot."
> 
> ...


This gets complicated.

Someone made a post summarizing an article in the General forum a week or so ago, discussing sex differences.

It was a list of points like: PlayBoy's popularity totally eclipsed Playgirl, Men are the gender that pays for sex, 93% of of sex-offenders are male

The poster concluded with something like: clearly men think about sex A LOT more than women

He then received a number of replies from female posters saying things like: _I don't think there's any difference at all, women are just as sexual as men, I think about sex all the time, etc etc_

Those responses irritated me, because when presented with a list of factual differences like that...it's simply absurd to say 'men' and 'women' are the exact same sexually.

I mean OBVIOUSLY they're not. Or those differences would not exist. 

And a handful of female outliers on a forum with countless posts from men dissatisfied with their sex-lives and women not wanting to have sex underscore the fact that these women are indeed THE OUTLIERS

I have little patience for asserting PC statements as truth, when they fly in the face of all logic.

And this happens a great deal when talking about the genders

I think in the quest for women's equality...somehow this silly notion that equality must mean we WE ARE EXACTLY the SAME...got thrown into the mix. 

I don't like it, because it's wrong...and secretly everyone knows its wrong. 

And if it's wrong..then it is at best unhelpful...and at worst harmful.

We need to deal with, and work from a platform of reality...however unenlightened that reality may be...nothing good comes from willfully denying the truth.

Okay so stepping off my soap box, and getting on to your question:

Well, it gets kind of tricky and I'm realizing that a big part of that has to do with the fact that women don't really discuss this stuff openly with each other (and I know ALOT about my friends lives, I even know A LOT about their sex lives...but it's that 'personal', 'in your head' sexuality that is not often discussed)

And I haven't gotten this all worked out and down to a personal theory yet, but let me offer the pieces I'm trying to fit together in my head

Scarlet brought up BSDM ...and that's interesting...because I have feeling that A LOT of women fantasize or have fantasized about being controlled or some quite degrading scenario. And I would classify this as 'getting- off' material...in the same way men use porn.

And I think women don't share, because these thoughts can be pretty disturbing

I don't know why these fantasies are so common and so arousing...and I've never heard an explanation I thought really hit upon it.

And then, from women with these fantasies we have:

Grp A: Who actually wants to 'live them out'

Grp B: Who doesn't...who would NOT be turned if they actually attempted to role play these degrading/abusive situations...this is purely mental fodder

I think overall there are more women in Grp B...but what makes for the two groups to begin with? I don't know...


(note* I'm not talking about general dominance behaviors...I think a male being 'dominant', 'assertive and masculine appeals to the vast majority of women (to varying degrees) in and out of bed. 

The fantasies I'm referring to...really are perhaps a bizarre step-sister to what I'll term 'general masculine-dominance')

Then, there are Romantic Fantasies and these are largely not sexual...or the sex in them is peripheral and overwhelmingly romantic. They're more about living your life together...interpersonal interactions. And I think many women could even imagine vividly 'making love' in this type of fantasy and not be sexually aroused at all....but rather their feelings would involve being very loving or being very loved...and that's the 'dopamine reward' one is seeking from a fantasy like this.

Okay...so that boils down to: 

violent/messier/disturbing fantasies ='sexual gratification' fodder

loving/romantic interactions='feeling loved fantasies

I think these spheres stay pretty separate in a woman's mind.

Which sphere is accessed more often? Again, can't say with certainty...but I have a feeling the answer to this question has to with hormones, age and current life situation. 

I guess my answer to your specific question is a 'no'...as odd as that may seem to a guy...even after 10 or 20 years the fantasies I think you're referring to...aren't ever the one's a woman has (or at least the frequency would be so low that it'd be hard to consider it anything other than anomalous)...

I can totally get a guy fantasizing about anal sex with his wife in a realistic bedroom scenario and then hoping to actually live it out.

A wife won't fantasize about anal sex in the same way.

She might have a dirty/degrading fantasy about some 'boundary pushing' sex act...but I don't think she'd be imagining her husband and it's quite possible/even probable that the man's appearance isn't well defined at all in the fantasy. 

In general, I think women who begin to fantasize about sexually explicit and exciting things to actually do with and for their ACTUAL husbands are making a conscious choice to do so rather than just obeying their sexual natures.

Another piece I think is significant but don't really know what to do with is that, as a general rule I've noticed:

Men are not sexually satisfied with masturbation.

Women totally can be. Which means sexual urges are much more like scratching an itch.

I think the difference may be due to what happens after orgasm. A woman feels good, and sometimes REALLY GOOD... but my guess is that 95% of the time the satisfaction from an orgasm is taken to another level for men. It takes more out of...and lasts longer

(and yes, I know there's that common knowledge fact that the clitoris has many more nerve endings or something)

Regardless of whether that's true, I think a more telling fact is found in a woman's much shorter refractory period in comparison to a man's. There is a refactory period for all nerve and muscle fibers in the body...and it's used to protect them from being over stimulated... a longer period of 'protection' indicates that a much more profoundly powerful process/ feeling is occurring in men them.

And a man gets 'rewarded by nature' for fulfilling his biological prerogative by then getting the chance to 'feel intense emotion'

which is why sex with a woman he loves feels so good

and sex with the easy-girl from the bar is often instantly met with regret afterward or some sort of dissatisfaction

Because a man's going to generally FEEL someway emotionally after orgasm...it can either be really wonderful, really bad, or really lame (masturbation)

Women can have that sense of 'intense' love totally outside of sex


My question to you as a man would be: when you have a sexual fantasy what is the emotional range like?

Certainly men have both the desire to merely 'get-off' and to make love?

I've always thought fantasies would fall in the former camp most of the time.

So..are they purely lustful? Is it lust followed by loving feelings? How much of the satisfaction in the fantasy comes from satisfying your desires? Versus feeling like you rocked this woman's world?

Or does the derivation of satisfaction and the range of feelings change based upon whether the fantasy involves some anonymous girl vs a SO?


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> This gets complicated.
> 
> Someone made a post summarizing an article in the General forum a week or so ago, discussing sex differences.
> 
> ...


Holy Crap!:allhail: I'm in awe.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> My question to you as a man would be: when you have a sexual fantasy what is the emotional range like?
> 
> Are they purely lustful? Is it lust followed by loving feelings? How much of the satisfaction in the fantasy comes from satisfying your desires? Versus feeling like you rocked this woman's world?
> 
> Or does stuff and the range of feelings change based upon whether the fantasy involves some anonymous girl vs a SO?


Great post India.

As for your question, the emotional range can be rather broad, depending on the fantasy.

Some are of pure personal graficiation, like recieving oral sex. Getting a BJ is all about me, so it evokes a sense of power, but moreso it evokes a sense that I 'special' in the sense that I am worthy of having something sexual all about me. 

Some are conquering. A few things in my fiancees past for example are things I'd like to try. Some sounds good, but some also sounds like something I'd like to do because it is something I'd like her to think about me when she thinks about it. Maybe that's a 'marking my territory' type of thing?

And everything is about rocking the woman's world, but I consider rocking her world to include everything from making her orgasm and want to swing from the chandelier to passionate and totally submissive plasuring of her. I want to rock her world in every possible way.

Who the woman is totally impacts how I feel about it though. If for example I was with just a ONS, it'd all be about me. I'd want mine, and likely not care much about her wants. Yes, I'd be a considerate person and not just wham, bam, thank you maam it, but I'm not going to worry about her feelings/needs/etc. more than my own.

If it was my SO though, I'd care more about her than myself. She comes first. Always.


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## OrangeCrush (Sep 12, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I don't think his mind works that way.He's a bit of an odd one.At first I didn't believe him at all.


mine is the same way; he doesn't have any fantasies at all. he's just happy to go along with what i suggest (which i'm grateful for, because some of the stuff i like is a little weird! cute maybe, but weird. I really like costumes and role-playing.). sometimes when i mention an idea i have, he'll be like 'oh yeah, and you could also do x y and z'...like if i get him thinking about something he'll sometimes add his own ideas to it or think of something he would like. 

i believe him when he says he just doesn't have any fantasies on his own, i don't think he's shy or hiding his desires because he says that he feels like he can tell me anything.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> This gets complicated.


Ain't that the truth.



IndiaInk said:


> Someone made a post summarizing an article in the General forum a week or so ago, discussing sex differences.
> 
> It was a list of points like: PlayBoy's popularity totally eclipsed Playgirl, Men are the gender that pays for sex, 93% of of sex-offenders are male
> 
> ...


At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I couldn't agree more with your assessment. These types of discussions can turn very divisive and political quickly so I won't go too far into this. Suffice it to say that I agree with every word you said, especially the bold portion. 



IndiaInk said:


> My question to you as a man would be: when you have a sexual fantasy what is the emotional range like?


I can have feelings that range from the lovey-dovey romantic type to the lustful, "I just want to bang you hard" kind. It runs the full gamut. When I am running scenarios through my head and when I can see the face of the "other" involved, it is almost always my wife. Otherwise, they are faceless.

As a side note, almost all of my fantasies are likely what most people would consider to be rather tame. Early in our marriage, my wife and I came to the understanding that as long as our activities did not include pain/humiliation, anything illegal, third parties or animals, then it was open for discussion to include in our repertoire. My fantasies almost exclusively stay within that realm. 

At what point does a want or desire turn into a fantasy? When the word fantasy pops up, people always assume that it means something wild and way out there. Whips and chains, group sex, exhibitionism, etc. It isn't always like that. For a man with a sexually repressed wife, just receiving oral sex from her could be his fantasy. One that he desperately wants to see come true. A woman married to a man that fails to satisfy her fully doesn't always fantasize about being gang banged by her office co-workers or being dominated and ravished by pirates. It may simply be something as simple as her husband coming home from work, walking straight up to her and "taking" her in a forceful (yet gentle) manner. 

One of my fantasies involves my wife and I getting all dressed up for dinner. I am dressed in a tuxedo or some other really nice suit. She is in a very feminine, cleavage revealing dress (she hardly *ever* shows any cleavage) with high heels. As we are driving to the restaurant, she pulls her dress up to show me the silk, thigh high stockings and garter belt she has on under the dress. She also informs me that she isn't wearing any panties. This drives me wild all through dinner and she is enjoying the playfulness of knowing what she is doing to me. We take our time, savoring the entire meal (including dessert) and afterwards, retire to our villa on the beach where we spend hours doing what comes naturally. 

In all likelihood, this is something that will never happen in real life. What is the origin of this fantasy? Lust? Love for my wife? A sense of adventure? Wanting to strengthen the bond that my wife and I have? Wanting erotic pleasure as a release from the day to day grind of life for both me and my wife?

Yes. To all of it. 



IndiaInk said:


> Certainly men have both the desire to merely 'get-off' and to make love?


Absolutely. Though I believe that with my wife and I, the ratios are different. To me, "making love" is something that I always do when my wife and I have sex, regardless of the underlying drive (lust, romance, etc). And for me, the line is very blurred. The two are mixed together.



IndiaInk said:


> So..are they purely lustful? Is it lust followed by loving feelings?


As you said earlier, "This gets complicated". I have struggled for quite a while to sort out where lust ends and loving feelings and romantic notions begins. I believe that (at least for me and my wife) they are an interrelated mix of emotions, desires, wants and needs. I think a sex life that is based solely on flowers, unicorns, fairy dust and that wistful look you get in your eyes when thinking about your SO can't really be sustained. Then again, a sex life based solely on physical lust can't be the basis of a solid relationship.



IndiaInk said:


> How much of the satisfaction in the fantasy comes from satisfying your desires? Versus feeling like you rocked this woman's world?


Both. Simply because the fantasy is mine, it is coming out of my wants and desires that I want satisfied. But part of that satisfaction is knowing that my wife is fully involved and an enthusiastic participant. Her satisfaction and "rocking her world" is also very important to me. There's almost nothing I like more than to see her being fully satisfied and achieving heights of pleasure. She is always first.



IndiaInk said:


> Or does the derivation of satisfaction and the range of feelings change based upon whether the fantasy involves some anonymous girl vs a SO?


As mentioned before, almost all my fantasies involve my wife.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> At what point does a want or desire turn into a fantasy? When the word fantasy pops up, people always assume that it means something wild and way out there. Whips and chains, group sex, exhibitionism, etc. It isn't always like that. For a man with a sexually repressed wife, just receiving oral sex from her could be his fantasy.


Totally the truth, like it was spoken from my own mouth. Oral was, and still is, a fantasy of mine. In my marriage to my ex-wife, I received oral three times in 10 years, and only once to completion. It wasn't even something I could ask for without getting an ugly look.

In my relationship now, oral is there on rare occassions, but not to the frequency I want, and defeinately not something she wants to do. I don't want oral much myself, but a BJ once a month would be nice, one done with enthusiasm. I'd guesstimate I get about two a year, and I have gone over a full year without before, because she doesn't like doing them. 

So a fantasy for me does extend to something I do get (BJ's) but the fantasy is about getting it more often, and with some level of desire behind it. And yes, I would do the same for her if she wanted. She doesn't want to receive oral (long story) or I'd likely give it to her on a weekly basis.



Zatol Ugot? said:


> One of my fantasies involves my wife and I getting all dressed up for dinner. I am dressed in a tuxedo or some other really nice suit. She is in a very feminine, cleavage revealing dress (she hardly *ever* shows any cleavage) with high heels. As we are driving to the restaurant, she pulls her dress up to show me the silk, thigh high stockings and garter belt she has on under the dress. She also informs me that she isn't wearing any panties. This drives me wild all through dinner and she is enjoying the playfulness of knowing what she is doing to me. We take our time, savoring the entire meal (including dessert) and afterwards, retire to our villa on the beach where we spend hours doing what comes naturally.
> 
> In all likelihood, this is something that will never happen in real life. What is the origin of this fantasy? Lust? Love for my wife? A sense of adventure? Wanting to strengthen the bond that my wife and I have? Wanting erotic pleasure as a release from the day to day grind of life for both me and my wife?


This is what really does bother me about the fantasy aspect of things in a relationship. I too have many basic fantasies. not this one in particular, but many 'fantasies' that I know a lot of people on here would consider tame. Yet you already know, despite the fact you likely have (God willing) decades left to go in your marriage that this very simple, and mutually benefiting fantasy will not ever become a reality. Why not? All you're asking is for her to take one evening out of her life, get dressed up so that she looks gorgeous, and teases you a little while having dinner, then go back home and have some fun. 

That's the same as me and my fantasy (which is the freakin' bi-weekly reality of some posters around here) to get awoken one time in my whole life by a BJ. To wake up to your day by getting a hummer. Just once. 

To me, a great marriage involves giving your partner whatever they want (as long as it doesn't run you into debts, drugs, other bad stuff), as long as you can actually give it to them. And vice versa. Making your partner as happy as they can be should be a key ingredient (but not the only thing of course) of what makes you happy as well.

For far to many people though, there seems to be a mental loophole to this idea when it comes to sex or sexual issues, and I just don't get why.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> To me, a great marriage involves giving your partner whatever they want (as long as it doesn't run you into debts, drugs, other bad stuff), as long as you can actually give it to them. And vice versa. Making your partner as happy as they can be should be a key ingredient (but not the only thing of course) of what makes you happy as well.


After a lengthy session where I almost begged my wife to wear some lingerie (she has gotten a little better about that), she half jokingly said with a wry smile on her face "Well what if I want you to wear something just for me?" With absolutely no hesitation and about a microsecond later I said, "Honey, I would wear nothing but an apron, cowboy boots and a beanie on my head if I knew that it turned you on the way lingerie turns me on". Of course the example was absurd but I meant it. I'm willing to do/try whatever she wants/desires. Just tell me something!


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## Gabey (Feb 20, 2013)

I love my wife, we have a great frequency of sex and my wife, although religious, is NOT uptight in the bedroom. 

When we met, I was the inexperienced virgin and she was the experienced one. She's a beauty and had many BF's in the day.

So, it drives me crazy that 99.9% of the time I am the initiator or the one that comes up with the wild positions and scenarios. Never turns me down, but never contributes.

She is also mum about fantasies and I constantly have to ask her if she even has any! I tell her all my fantasies and she is not repulsed by them and even seems to like playing along. That's great, but it gets tiring being the only one trying to spice things up.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Hmm...

As I thought about what I wrote, specifically about female 'getting-off' fantasies VS 'loving/romantic' fantasies

Really, 'getting-off' material is kinda the same for both genders...there's that anonymous, using, lust-dominate...essentially pornographic 'energy' to the whole business.

And maybe that's simply because, as human beings, we're all just playing with a few hormones here aren't we? (so we all have estrogen, testosterone, progesterone, oxytocin etc...just in significantly differing proportions)

Maybe 'female-lust' has pretty much the same 'flavor' as male lust because humans only have one 'lust' hormone and that's testosterone for all of us

And maybe the reason women are able to content their sexual urges much more satisfactorily with self-stimulation is because women have so much less T...so it truly is _'just scratching an itch'._..whereas sexually deprived men frequently use the much more powerful analogy of *'thirst'.* 

Because in men, testosterone is indeed, HEAVILY dominate...and it's a powerful hormone 

And I think you, OP and Kingsfan both nicely delineated the two spheres as they operate in Men.

Kingsfan wrote:

*Who the woman is totally impacts how I feel about it* though. If for example I was* with just a ONS, it'd all be about me. *I'd want mine, and likely not care much about her wants. Yes, I'd be a considerate person and not just wham, bam, thank you maam it, but I'm not going to worry about her feelings/needs/etc. more than my own 

And truly, isn't this fact just about as old as time?...This is why we jokes about girls warning each other that _'he's only after one thing' _and the image fathers sitting on the porch with shot-guns

There is that 'pure-lust' driven sexuality in both sexes that's devoid of higher sentiment...it feels 'crude' in both genders...simply because it is...

BUT, as you both also expressed, guys are not simply lust-driven either:

Kingsfan wrote:

If it was my SO though, I'd care more about her than myself. She comes first. Always. 

OP wrote:

As you said earlier, "This gets complicated". *I have struggled for quite a while to sort out where lust ends and loving feelings and romantic notions begins*. I believe that (at least for me and my wife) they are an interrelated mix of emotions, desires, wants and needs. I think a sex life that is based solely on flowers, unicorns, fairy dust and that wistful look you get in your eyes when thinking about your SO can't really be sustained. Then again, a sex life based solely on physical lust can't be the basis of a solid relationship. 

I think it's very difficult for lust to ever truly end for a man because* Nature doesn't really want or allow for that to happen. *

It always strikes me when man will write something like _“you know, my wife doesn't understand that sometimes I too actually wish I could just unscrew this penis and hang it in the closet for awhile”_...just making that comment illustrates the relentlessness of this underlying drive....and I think women could be more *sympathetic* to that


Now...if this is the 'curse' Nature has given men...it also comes with its compensations...and two of those would be: 1. When you satisfy the 'drive' you're rewarded with a *very, very pleasurable feeling*...and a sense of peace and satisfaction (at least temporarily) 2. And you're allowed to feel all of these 'loving'/romantic feelings too...but *on the condition that they're still largely linked with that 'Testosterone'-given DRIVE*

Because...Nature has no interest in having 'sexual' and 'romantic' feelings be *uncoupled* in men... for that wouldn't serve her purposes nearly as well

But in women...whose primary biological prerogative is the nurturing of offspring to maturity...there's no problem with these feelings being uncoupled...she must LOVE her children to care for them...and *none of that needs to be sexual*

[n fact, if you think about a 'male-animal' raising offspring...you can see how that relentless sexual drive makes it impossible...the offspring would be abandoned because the male would be compelled to leave them for the sake of satisfying his drive ( and thus, except for a handful of outliers..male animals do NOT raise their progeny]

And here, I think we arrive at what often proves the_ 'fatal-flaw'_ of long-term relationships between the genders

*Men CAN'T really uncouple the two. And women CAN'T really couple them...(or not for any length of time)*

Love and Lust are really only coupled in a woman during her _'securing a mate'_ mode...and they continue to be coupled as long as that *'securing'* bit is still up in the air

Once that unconscious part of her brain instinctively registers that she has 'secured' him....she goes into 'nesting mode' (and I'll use that instead of 'mommy-mode' because these drives play out in humans regardless of whether actual offspring are involved)

In 'nesting-mode', a woman's _lust uncouples itself from love _(because of her differing underlying biological prerogative). And , truthfully, even the 'love' part often become shaky...which is unsettling...(and I wont get into here...but in general I think that even woman's romantic love is a much more tenuous thing for a guy to hang onto...than vice versa)

So women can: 1. love their husbands without lust 2. Feel neither one 3. and then there's a few (like SimplyAmorous)—that end up being the *total Jackpot* of an exception.

It's worth noting that wife that doesn't lust after her husband can still Love him enough to willingly sleep with him...(and that will tend to satisfy him to the degree that she consciously attempts to infuse some lust for him into the act---and that makes sense..because her conscious attempt is itself* 'loving-act*)

Now obviously, many women don't: thus the oft used term *Duty Sex*

And then, there are many women that just refuse to engage altogether.

And should a woman have that occasional, incidental spike of Testosterone...well, for many, masturbation suits just fine: the *itch is scratched*...and she can then go back to fulfilling her prerogative: (e.g. making dinner for little johnny, and driving sally to ballet practice)

But for a man *actively trigger female lust,* it nearly invariably will hinge upon the level to which she is in doubt about how much she has *'secured' her mate.*

And Kingsfan....your experiences with you ex-wife paint that picture (her willingness to engage was proportional to the 'security' she felt)...and your disappointments with your fiancee likely highlight it too (though hopefully she LOVES you enough to be sexual (and consciously lustful) to a degree you find fulfilling---and will continue to do so...)

Because I know that for many men, the idea of constantly *'playing relationship chicken' * with the woman they love in order to keep their sex-life alive seems utterly-- tiring, unappealing, and definitely unromantic...and it is... it's absolutely 'contrived' behavior after all...

And it's interesting that despite our *MANY* differences, *BOTH* genders are able to conceive of the notion of 'true-love', BOTH have an innate sense of what love 'feels' like, BOTH are aware of the ways in which they fall short. Thus:

Women often* feel guilty* for resenting their husbands sexual nature and depriving him, While men, often *feel guilty *about 'burdening' their wives with their 'primitive' urges

And in BOTH of these cases: (the wife's guilt for her resentment and anger ...and the husband's guilt for his strong lustfulness and the bitterness he feels when its unsatisfied) ..*.what they're BOTH really feeling guilty about is those emotions and urges that their POWERFUL 'animal-self' evokes in them.*

Because we're not just an animal...(this thread alone is indicative of this fact)...we're 'human' too...and that part is itself largely mystery...

It's this mysterious 'human-part' that often gives us the sense that somehow _we could be and should be better._..and allows us to conceive of loving and ( indeed living) in ways entirely devoid of traces of our 'selfish, primitive animal' self

But it's mostly just a conception....whether we like it or not, ALL of our lives are mostly dominated with a more 'animal-reality'...(road-rage, jealousy, desire for a promotion etc, etc)

And I suppose it is the extent to which each of us is able to *approach the 'animal-sides' of others* with our_ human compassion and understanding_ (not just our spouses...but all of interactions with people) ... well, this probably largely determines the extent to which we're able to *regularly* feel peace and contentment in our lives.

(And FWIW, in the particular case of sex in LTRs ...I do think the *onus is more on women*, I think if they could replace their _instinctual resentment_ towards the male drive with understanding and *embrace it lovingly*...both they and their mates would be better off. Alas, that doesn't mean it often happens though---sadly)


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

I'm also in the same boat.

I've shared some of my fantasies with her (not particularly easy since she is not that open talking about sex). And after getting the courage to go out on a limb and share, I've hardly ever got any reaction to what I bring up. Nothing. No further questions. No feeling that she finds any even remotely interesting (even in an academic sense). No apparent willingness to discuss further. No indication of how she feels about it (repulsed?, also interested? shocked? nothing). 

Likewise, when i ask her if she has any fantasies she wants to share (in a very nonthreatening, no pressure way), i also get nothing in response. Perhaps not even fantasies but discussion of some things she may have read about, etc.

I like to talk about different aspects of sex. I don't need to partake in all of my fantasies or even any of them if she is not comfortable (and some I would not be comfortable with if they came out of the realm of fantasy).

She doesn't have any religious hangups about sex and generally thinks sex is healthy and should be shared and open. But in practice, she is very uncomfortable with me on this even though we've been long term partners.


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## PleasePursue (May 6, 2013)

Um im a woman in the same boat, my husband says he doesnt have any fantasies but i share mine all the time. It is frustrating to say the least


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

I can't get my DH to talk about it either. I have a few that I have told him about, some of which are not even things that I would actually *DO* but just that I like to think about. But I think he misunderstood and it upset him. He admits to none. Nothing. Well, there was one thing that he said he liked, so we have started to incorporate that more often. But no new thing that he wants to try or explore. Just the same old. Or at least, nothing that he will tell me about. 

We were in an adult store together and I asked him what he wanted. I told him to buy whatever he interested him. There was nothing. I was so frustrated. And then he gets upset if he thinks I'm mad at him. I'm not mad, I just feel like there has to be *something* he wants, but he doesn't trust me enough to tell me or he feels ashamed of himself. 
As for my own, I think they are a turn off for him and make him feel insecure. We talk about it from time to time but more than once he's gotten angry with me about them and I've just kinda given up.

Other than those few things, I don't really know what to do to change up the routine. We have a lot of sex, almost daily, it can get stale pretty quick. I'm open to trying new things I just don't know what to do and he doesn't seem to mind doing the same things over and over.


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## plasmasunn (Apr 3, 2013)

OK, so I didn't get through all these response posts. But, I wanted to chime in. Like Scarlet, my husband swears up and down he has no "fantasies." Zero, zilch, nada. Of course, he has proclivities to certain fetishes (mainly, he just loves oral sex...giving or recieving, gets off on either). For years, I thought he was full of it and just didn't want to reveal what he secretly wanted. Over the years, I've done more of the talking/initiating/suggesting/implenting new things (I've got a thing for exhibitionism...hubby never even thought of it himself...but the times we do get out and do it in an unusual place, it certainly doesn't take him long!)

Bottom line...a lot of people just don't think about sex the same way. Personally, I'm all over the map in my desires...have had threesomes (one with the hubby...and he LOVED it!), enjoy toys, rough sex, dirty talk, etc...While my hubs has never expressed any fantasy of his (I've come to believe him that he has none) he enjoys the sex we have. He's never turned me down for any suggestion I have, and while he isn't one to initiate something new, he's open to what I come up with because he knows it makes me happy....and giving me pleasure makes him happy. (Oh, and I make sure the gesture is returned plenty!) 

I've just always been extremely open-minded about sex. Some people aren't. Some people don't care. Some people are fine with routine. Some people have extremely bizarre fantasies/fetishes. Ya just gotta figure out your middle ground!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

What brought about change with my husband and I, with him opening up in that way, began outside the bedroom. I feel such a bore writing this instead of suggesting some tantalizing way of easily unlocking your lover...but for us it started outside the bedroom.

Trust. For us, it's developing that type of open communication that allows for complete vulnerability with one another. Seems to me it's in part on ourselves to reach that place of being able to be vulnerable in the first place, as well as creating the dynamic in the relationship that allows for this and being willing together. I think such things as trust can be demonstrated to our husband/wife in ways we might not even be aware of....it could relate to having trust in the love, feeling worthy, acceptance, which then leads into recognizing each others needs. With that improved foundation in areas unrelated to sex, it then did actually channel back to the bedroom - that was never the intent; it was just the positive rippled effect.

And while I felt I was fairly open, turns out there were other aspects of myself where I wasn't (outside the bedroom) and that's been learning for me too. It's not always easy. There's dealing with your own ego, the past, behaviors and then doing that together in the dynamic created between you...that's my take on it anyway. Maybe someone else has a more erotic approach but working on the foundation in that way is when we really began to experience changes.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> Maybe someone else has a more erotic approach but working on the foundation in that way is when we really began to experience changes.


Good post. I agree fully. Having the desire is the first step, but trust can actually open the door. RE: your quote above, the eroticism comes after the trust IMO.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

couple said:


> I'm also in the same boat.
> 
> I've shared some of my fantasies with her (not particularly easy since she is not that open talking about sex). And after getting the courage to go out on a limb and share, I've hardly ever got any reaction to what I bring up. Nothing. No further questions. No feeling that she finds any even remotely interesting (even in an academic sense). No apparent willingness to discuss further. No indication of how she feels about it (repulsed?, also interested? shocked? nothing).


This is another angle which I haven't commented on yet. One big reason people don't talk about their fantasies is that they fear the response, or lack thereof. I know I don't talk about my fantasies much anymore because first off, I've said most of them several times not, secondly, I often get lip service to them (IE she hears them, we talk about them, and then nothing happens, or it happens a few times then dies off again), and thirdly, many of them are so basic and mundane that likely half the people here wouldn't even call them fantasies, so it gets rather annoying having to ask all the time for what was done at the beginning of the relationship but died off, or what should be part of any basic sex life.

After a while you just get a 'why bother' attitude.


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## justtryin (Apr 22, 2013)

I feel a double standard in my marriage regarding this.

My wife made it crystal clear that masturbation, and particularly porn, is a major no-no. It was the source of some MAJOR fights back in the day, and eventually I realized if it was that important to her then I need to refrain. It was not easy. That was over a decade ago, and she still feels the same.

However, she read those "50 shades" books last summer (and has on occasion always read romance novels). I even noticed a bit of a change in the bedroom, and I loved it. She has always been pretty uptight/conservative in the bedroom, willing to do what I want but really not enjoying anything other than the usual, so that's what I try to stick to. She won't touch herself (I pressured her/begged her once and could tell she was uncomfortable so I never asked her again) and won't even hold a toy on herself, tells me it's my job not hers. So any little change in bedroom gets my excitement levels up and I'm game for anything she wants.

I was not going to complain! But then a few months ago I mentioned something about those books, about how I heard it was turning women on, and she casually/teasingly said "yeah too bad you didn't take advantage of it" and I said WHAT?! She changed the subject and that was that.

I tried to brush it off and forget it, but looking back, I'm actually quite hurt and confused. I can't masturbate or look at porn, that's "wrong" to her, yet she can not only read "women's porn" but also stab me in the heart about it? I don't think she realized it but it would be like me saying I watched some really hot porn and too bad she can't live up to it. WTF?

Edit - sorry, that's probably off-subject, something in the thread reminded me of the above and I kind of spewed it out


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

That's totally ON topic justtryin, and that's also a load of BS on her part. She has no right to control your masturbation or porn, unless either are causing issues in the marriage (IE causing lesser results in the bedroom) or are against religous beliefs. How do you let your wife control your masturbation? My ex-wife also gave me the 'masturbation is wrong' crap, but I still did it, I just didn't tell her I did.


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## justtryin (Apr 22, 2013)

No religion, and certainly wasn't causing issues in bedroom - sometimes it made me want her even more, kind of like it woke up! It never interfered, my drive has always been higher than hers. 

I continued it for a while, just didn't tell her and got more sneaky about it, I justified it was ultimately helping her because I wouldn't pester or pressure her as much. But after a while I just felt weird about it, I wanted HER, not porn or to play with myself, and didn't like hiding something from her. Odd as it sounds I always imagined the women in porn to be her, even though they looked nothing like her I'd try to find them doing moves that she did to me or reminded me of her. Sometimes I would simply fantasize about her and I making love, but that still wasn't doing it for me, I wanted her for real. Figured I'd rather spend the energy connecting with her and getting more action that way.

Reason for her is insecurity. We both had serious insecurities when we met, and we were young. I tried to get her into it when we first met, she finally agreed to watch a video once, and she cried. Not exactly a turn on. She is too self-conscious and doesn't understand. I get it though, there are things I didn't understand about her (non sexual) that I've been controlling or an ass about too.

But I was a bit upset by the events in my above post. Seems a double standard, no, even though it's different? She wasn't touching herself, I am confident of that, but likely having sexual fantasies nonetheless and telling ME that I didn't take advantage of it, when she knows darn well I would have done anything! 

Probably the problem is I'm not always super assertive, I hate rejection so I don't usually throw myself at her (she's complained about that before anyways) I drop hints and try to gauge where she's at. Of course being a woman she complains when I throw myself at her, yet once in a while says "Sometimes I want you to just take me". Yeah, ok, like I'm supposed to know that 1 time out of 100 when she wants that, and suffer rejection the other 99. 

To be fair, she often is responsive and will indulge my needs even when not in the mood, typically if I've really been dropping major hints or if it's been a while.

I'm working on other more serious issues in our relationship right now so I suppose I should lay off this area for now anyways. Last thing I need to do is give her crap about this. Just felt good to get it off my chest, has been bothering me and I can't talk about it with her right now, too much baggage I've created.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

When I was younger, starting from puberty, I never fantasised about scenarios involving myself. It was more like sexual stories I would tell myself about all kinds of things, some pretty kinky and unusual. I also got material from books like "Lace" and Clan of the Cave Bear.

But I was never in them. I was never thinking about myself doing anything.

My husband and I got together very young, and he was always interested to hear what I thought about. He started writing erotic stories for me, and after I read them he'd ask me which were my favourite parts and he built up a really good understanding about what turned me on that way.

I'm 40 now, and probably for the last 10 years I've been putting myself into my fantasies more, although not all the time. Some of my tastes and interests have matured too, my husband says I'm more of an outlier than he is, but he embraces it joyfully!

I don't know if this is helpful, but you could try asking about books, movies, scenarios that excite your wife rather than actual fantasies. It's a bit if a loaded word, I probably would have said I had no fantasies even though I thought about sex a lot and masturbated daily.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

justtryin said:


> I continued it for a while, just didn't tell her and got more sneaky about it, I justified it was ultimately helping her because I wouldn't pester or pressure her as much. But after a while I just felt weird about it, I wanted HER, not porn or to play with myself, and didn't like hiding something from her. Odd as it sounds I always imagined the women in porn to be her, even though they looked nothing like her I'd try to find them doing moves that she did to me or reminded me of her. Sometimes I would simply fantasize about her and I making love, but that still wasn't doing it for me, I wanted her for real. Figured I'd rather spend the energy connecting with her and getting more action that way.


Been there, done that. I used to not masturbate because I couldn't really get off to it because I wanted her more. Mentally I just couldn't get excited about it.

A high rejection rate tends to cure you of that problem though. It also tends to cure you of even wanting your spouse anymore.



justtryin said:


> Reason for her is insecurity. We both had serious insecurities when we met, and we were young. I tried to get her into it when we first met, she finally agreed to watch a video once, and she cried. Not exactly a turn on. She is too self-conscious and doesn't understand. I get it though, there are things I didn't understand about her (non sexual) that I've been controlling or an ass about too.


I assume the insecurities stem from issues in past relationships. If so, that's not a valid excuse, as she needs to trust you aren't going to be like that last guy(s). Ditto for you towards her.



justtryin said:


> But I was a bit upset by the events in my above post. Seems a double standard, no, even though it's different? She wasn't touching herself, I am confident of that, but likely having sexual fantasies nonetheless and telling ME that I didn't take advantage of it, when she knows darn well I would have done anything!


It is a double standard, but she doesn't see it that way. Remember, perception is reality. In her world, she's done nothing wrong, so you need to either change their perception, or accept it. If you keep your thoughts to yourself, you are accepting it, so explain your position and if you truly believe she's doing a double standard, don't back down.



justtryin said:


> Probably the problem is I'm not always super assertive, I hate rejection so I don't usually throw myself at her (she's complained about that before anyways) I drop hints and try to gauge where she's at. Of course being a woman she complains when I throw myself at her, yet once in a while says "Sometimes I want you to just take me". Yeah, ok, like I'm supposed to know that 1 time out of 100 when she wants that, and suffer rejection the other 99.


Starting to sound like you are me 10 years ago. Feel like the starving cat at the dinner table, waiting for a crumb to fall. You guys need to have a talk. A serious talk.



justtryin said:


> To be fair, she often is responsive and will indulge my needs even when not in the mood, typically if I've really been dropping major hints or if it's been a while.


Not quite sure how this is 'fair.' You make it sound like she treats you the same as the car when it needs an oil change. Just another task on the list.



justtryin said:


> I'm working on other more serious issues in our relationship right now so I suppose I should lay off this area for now anyways. Last thing I need to do is give her crap about this. Just felt good to get it off my chest, has been bothering me and I can't talk about it with her right now, too much baggage I've created.


Here is always a great place to vent, do so any time. If you ever need to vent to someone privately, don't hesitate to PM me. Like I said, I've walked in your shoes by the sounds of things.

Word of advice, list out your problems, from the biggest down to the smallest, and then try to map out as best you can a root cause for those issues. I will wager that several are directly related to your sex life, or are made worse by your sex life. People don't have any idea sometimes how vital a healthy sexlife is in a marriage. They tend to treat it like sex is just a fun fact of marriage, but a nearly optional one as well, as if marriage was a car and the sex life was the chrome detailing. Some get the chrome, some don't. 

Sex shouldn't be the chrome in your sex life. It should be the seatbelt, the thing that can help you feel secure and help get you through some critical situations.


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## justtryin (Apr 22, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> Been there, done that. I used to not masturbate because I couldn't really get off to it because I wanted her more. Mentally I just couldn't get excited about it.
> 
> A high rejection rate tends to cure you of that problem though. It also tends to cure you of even wanting your spouse anymore.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kingsfan, I truly appreciate your insight.

If you are interested, click on my username and check out the thread I started in the general discussion forum. It will tell you what I'm going through. Warning - my posts are long, this is my only outlet for working through this stuff so I really go on and on with the details. This is all new to me.

You are right though, our problems (from my side) did start with our sex life. For years I have told her my needs in that area (especially in regard to her thoughts on masturbation) and she was always willing to meet my needs. But it's not the same when the other person isn't as into it as you (which I've told her a few times and she apologized but that doesn't change anything), and she also became very good at making excuses. For the last few years it's been ok, about 2 times a week average, but I would prefer at least 4 times per week. Of those 2 times a week, I'd say she's really into it about 25 - 33% of the time, and only if I really work at it. Otherwise it's "do your thing, I really like that the best". Even though I can drive her through the roof when she lets me - every time if she just gives it a chance - she still usually prefers I "just do it to her". Doesn't make sense to me. She has acknowledged this and has no explanation, saying I do drive her wild and can't believe what I'm capable of, she wishes she could make me feel that way, etc. I know she isn't faking at those times, I see the "evidence" if you know what I mean without getting too graphic. Yet the next time we make love, probably 3 out of 4 times instead of wanting the things that drive her wild, she just says "do your thing" essentially, "it's her favorite", even though she knows it's boring to me and rarely gets her off.

I would occasionally have heart-to-hearts with her about this, especially over the last couple years, and she was understanding, saying she tries, but sometimes she needs the emotional connection to be really in it. That was when I started realizing I wasn't fulfilling her needs entirely, and I had to do that to get mine fulfilled. I tried to meet and understand her needs (not nearly hard enough, in retrospect) and would not get anywhere, get bummed out, and give up.

As I mentioned, last summer she started to come around a little more, which excited me, I was like Finally! But even though it was better in quality, it was still a little sporadic, still about 2 times a week. I was loving it, but craving even more. So I restarted my efforts to meet her needs, hoping it would pay off. Our sex life started tapering back to normal again, inexplicably, and I kind of panicked. That's where my other thread explains, I ended up getting depressed and accusing her of possible infidelity 10 years ago.

So when I recently started connecting with her a month or so ago, I really thought (and was hoping) my needs would get met more fully, I thought I finally figured it out. It did pick up a little bit, more on her part, still not the "omg I need you" desire I crave, but at least she was more willing to initiate. This past week though it started kind of sliding backwards a little bit, even though all other areas are showing great signs of progress.

So right now I'm freaking out a bit again, now going back and forth was it really me doing something wrong the whole time, or was it her? Likely some of both, but I'm really trying to sort it out. It's exhausting.

I'm derailing this thread, so if you respond you should probably do it in my thread. You will also see why now is probably not a good time for me to bring this up to her. In fact I've been doing the opposite, I'm trying to let her know I'm not strictly after sex like I've always told her and pestered her about, even a few months ago (she says I have a one-track mind). In reality I crave intimacy and her to desire me, physically and emotionally, although I haven't really said that either.

Thanks.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Could you post the link to the thread you are speaking of, so I (and anyone else who is interested) can go there? I'd appreciate it.


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## justtryin (Apr 22, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> Could you post the link to the thread you are speaking of, so I (and anyone else who is interested) can go there? I'd appreciate it.


Sorry I'm not very good at these things, I don't know how to post the link. It's in General Relationship Discussion forum titled "How do I tell my wife she can be 100% open with me again"


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> Anyone else have any experience in trying to get their SO to open up and let you in on their fantasies?


One night my LW asks me about what sexual fantasies I might have. I told her I didn’t really have any. She insisted that I must have them. “All guys have them,” she said. (I hate it when she talks like she knows what all guys want.) “You must have had fantasies.” she says. So, I thought about it and tried to recall any particular sexual fantasy I've ever had. 

Two months of broken conversational later... I realized that the two of us had completely different definitions of the word ‘fantasy’. Her definition included positions, places, role playing, number of people, environment, attire, or a slew of various sex acts. I’ve never had any fantasies like that. 

Since I spent so much of my teens and twenties not having sex, all my fantasies centered around having relations with a woman: perhaps the cute cashier at the drug store, or some anonymous gal I passed on the sidewalk. This fantasy was almost always the same: a woman I found attractive wanted to have sex with me. 

As luck would have it, my LW happens to be a woman... and I do find her attractive... _and_ she wants to have sex with me! So -tada- my fantasy has been fulfilled. Which is probably why all of my LW’s other suggestions and examples seem terribly silly and superfluous. =)


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

MrVanilla said:


> One night my LW asks me about what sexual fantasies I might have. I told her I didn’t really have any. She insisted that I must have them. “All guys have them,” she said. (I hate it when she talks like she knows what all guys want.) “You must have had fantasies.” she says. So, I thought about it and tried to recall any particular sexual fantasy I've ever had.
> 
> Two months of broken conversational later... I realized that the two of us had completely different definitions of the word ‘fantasy’. Her definition included positions, places, role playing, number of people, environment, attire, or a slew of various sex acts. I’ve never had any fantasies like that.
> 
> ...


So now that your primary "fantasy" has been fulfilled, do you ever see yourself expanding and wanting more? Or do you think you are going to be satisfied and have no need to "expand your horizons"?


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

Zatol Ugot? said:


> So now that your primary "fantasy" has been fulfilled, do you ever see yourself expanding and wanting more? Or do you think you are going to be satisfied and have no need to "expand your horizons"?


Therein lies the issue. I am satisfied, and have no other need. She's the one trying to get me to 'expand my horizons'. When I asked, she presented a list of different things she was interested in trying again -_had to explain some of them_- and she told me stories about her personal experiences -_really wish she hadn't_- and she addressed her feelings, reactions, and different sensations when it comes to several of her examples. 

When we talk, I honestly listen and ask questions and pay attention, and she did eventually convince me to try a few new things - so I'm not completely stuck in the mud. 

Afterwards, she asked how I felt and I was honest. I did them for her because she asked me to, but I didn't find any of them particularly enjoyable. Actually, I found most of her suggestions degrading and humiliating to her and that 'feeling' made her less attractive and less desirable to me. That's not exactly the response either of us were looking for. 

I think the basic problem is that I look at sex as a very organic process. I feel that what the two of us need to do is find something new during that organic process. Specifically planning on engaging in an act that some other guy taught her to enjoy... or the product of someone else's fantasy that she fulfilled... just isn't working for me at all. 

So, that's where we are at right now. We're still looking for that something that might work for both of us.

I hope that somewhat answers your questions.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

MrVanilla,

I know I tend to agree with your stance more than most others here, but I'd like to know a couple of things.

A) You seem to overthink things when it comes to sex with your wife. For example thinking a particular act degrades your wife to you, rather than just accepting it as something she does enjoy. Assuming that the act we are talking about doesn't include things like threesomes, swinging, etc. (which i can't see you doing ever), why is it so hard for you to accept that this gives her pleasure and instad focus on how you feel this is degrading to her?

B) Why do you find it difficult to stray from your comfort zone in order to please your wife? From what you have written in the past of your desires and your wife's desire, it seems like your wife has had to do far more sacrificing of what she wants than you have.


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> B) Why do you find it difficult to stray from your comfort zone in order to please your wife? From what you have written in the past of your desires and your wife's desire, it seems like your wife has had to do far more sacrificing of what she wants than you have.


Just because my wife enjoys cooking spinach... means I _must_ enjoy it? Obviously, it would be helpful if I did! So... if I'm willing to push past my comfort zones and at least try it... your position holds that I _have to_ like it - simply because _she_ cooked it. I wish it was that simple, but we all have different tastes. That she never bothered to mention these tastes of hers in 16 years... that isn't my fault. If she had mentioned them when we first dated... chances are we wouldn't be having this problem. 

It is what it is, and we're working on it.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

MrVanilla said:


> Just because my wife enjoys cooking spinach... means I _must_ enjoy it? Obviously, it would be helpful if I did! So... if I'm willing to push past my comfort zones and at least try it... your position holds that I _have to_ like it - simply because _she_ cooked it. I wish it was that simple, but we all have different tastes. That she never bothered to mention these tastes of hers in 16 years... that isn't my fault. If she had mentioned them when we first dated... chances are we wouldn't be having this problem.
> 
> It is what it is, and we're working on it.


I don't have a position at all, and I'm sorry if I offended. I just had a question.

As well, I never once said you must enjoy it, i simply asked why it's so hard for you to stray more into the unknown in an effort to please your wife and meet her halfway.

You don't have to like it, but what's the harm in trying it?


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## MrVanilla (Apr 24, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I don't have a position at all, and I'm sorry if I offended. I just had a question.
> 
> As well, I never once said you must enjoy it, i simply asked why it's so hard for you to stray more into the unknown in an effort to please your wife and meet her halfway.
> 
> You don't have to like it, but what's the harm in trying it?


You didn't offend. =) and as I said, I never expected any of this, so it's very difficult for me to accept that she's experienced with any of these things, or that she wanted to do them once, let alone try them again. 

I am trying to stray into that unknown in an effort to please her with the things that I'm willing to try. But If I make that effort, and find it offensive and don't like it... then I probably won't want to do it again, and she's agreed to respect that. 

I doubt I'm ever going to meet her halfway, but that's on her and she knows it. She was the one that kept all those sexual preferences to herself for so long, so she took that risk. I'm doing what I can.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

MrVanilla said:


> You didn't offend. =) and as I said, I never expected any of this, so it's very difficult for me to accept that she's experienced with any of these things, or that she wanted to do them once, let alone try them again.
> 
> I am trying to stray into that unknown in an effort to please her with the things that I'm willing to try. But If I make that effort, and find it offensive and don't like it... then I probably won't want to do it again, and she's agreed to respect that.
> 
> I doubt I'm ever going to meet her halfway, but that's on her and she knows it. She was the one that kept all those sexual preferences to herself for so long, so she took that risk. I'm doing what I can.


Not to take the thread to far off topic, but how do you find she is towards you with the attitude you have? I mean stereotypically, it'd the woman who is more reserved and the man who is trying to open her up to new ideas, not vice versa. Does she ever try to use lines like "why aren't you like most men?" or "Most men would love this" or "I'm every man's dream girl," stuff to try and guilt you into shifting on your position?


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