# considering divorce...could use some advice



## jacangs (Feb 22, 2016)

Hello. So, I guess I'm on here bc I'm at a loss. My husband and I have been married 6+ years, and together 11. We are both 33 yrs old. We had a son when we were 25, and he was diagnosed with a rare disease and unfortunately passed away in 2007 when he was 15 months old. We fell in love instantly, we became best friends and spend all our time together. We instantly clicked. We didn't marry until a few years after our sons death bc we wanted to make sure we were doing it for the right reasons. Not just bc we had a child and been through way too much. We have always had an open line of communication and share our feelings and thoughts. We also are both very bull headed, and argue a lot. Fights within the past 5 years or so are way more controlled than in the past. Probably due to age and maturity. But we still fight. All the time. Thats the beginning. Trying to be short and sweet, but our problem has been going on a long time, 3 years at least. I decided to go back to school in 2010. I graduated at the age of 32. If going to school at that age isn't hard enough. The last thing i needed was more stress in our marriage. About the last year I was in school is when **** got real. We became more distant than usual. Sex doesn't exist. And more bickering over the dumbest stuff. I figured after school and I get settled in my job, things would change. That didn't happen I've been at the hospital for 2 years this July, and it's still horrible. Last April, I decided to tell him, again, how I am feeling, but this time I was making the decision to leave. He, obviously, got upset with me. Not the worried, I care about you upset, the "ok, fine. Leave, I don't care." upset. Hurt me so much more to know he won't fight for me, but it also helped to know it's not worth it. He's the type of person that everyone thinks is such a saint, and everyone loves him. Including myself. Behind closed doors though, he is always angry, very selfish and just has a negative attitude. He doesn't physically abuse me, but mentally, yes. Kind of always has. But it's me and John, ya know? I don't know any other way. Sorry to ramble, ok, so after the hard talk, I had to stick around the house b/c i couldn't afford to move out at the time. A week later, an entire week, he finally talked to me after I asked if he had anything to say about all of it. I think it finally sunk in that I was for real due to the packed boxes sitting in the spare room. I wasn't joking. At this time, he started crying and begged me to stay. How could I not? The last thing I want is to hurt him in any way. So we talked, wrote out our feelings, goals and ways to make things better. He promished he would try. He understands that I am lacking the passion, respect, communication in a marriage. I had built up a pretty thick wall at this point, but I too agreed to try again. Bc I know he's not the only one that needs work. Oh, also, he refuses any sort of marriage counceling. So we are stuck with books, movies and our faith. Ok, fast forward almost a year....**** is back to the exact way they had been for 2 years prior. Yes, he made a little effort in the beginning, but that all faded away pretty quickly. As it always does. I'm pretty open so whenever theres is a problem, I address it to him. He's been trying for a long time. As of the first of the year, I made a vow to do any and everything possible to become a better wife and friend to him. Hoping he would try back. Nothing. I work 12 hr night shifts, come home, clean, laundry, take care of the dogs, go to sleep, wake up at 3p, work out/run, and go back to work. I'm tired, but I feel it's worth it. I pick up extra shifts, considering i work 3 nights a week in my field, but it's all to benefit us. We have always had sepertate finances, do seperate laundry, even got to the point that we grocery shop seperately and only for ourselves most the time. It's just so weird. A few weeks ago, he yelled at me saying that I ditch him all the time. I do not. Can't rememeber a time I ever did. He is VERY controlling and likes things his way. For example, If i go to lunch with a friend, but don't get home by the time he does, I get in trouble (b/c I'm "ditching" him). Pretty sure he's just using that as a reason, but it isn't the truth. So again, I did not even bother arguing with him, i'm over the fighting, and told him I'll do what I can to not make him feel that way. 
Ok, anyway, here's my question...I truely believe that no one should ever be treated the way he treats me. in a marriage or not. I deserve to be treated with respect and appreciated at the same time. I don't think he's ever even said sorry to me for anything. He is emotionally gone. He's never been very emotional, but he used to be affectionate, and that is no longer. And our sex life is pretty much nonexistant. The occasional time we are intimate, I don't feel any love. Maybe i've grown differently in the past years. We are exactly where we were almost a year ago. Do I go through it again, let him try again, for the millionth time, or just leave?? I am not happy. I am exhausted from trying with nothing in return. Emotionally drained. I guess that is why I'm reaching out on here. I'm at a loss. I go back and forth, I married him so do i just stay b/c that's what I'm suppose to do. and sacrafice my happiness? Or do I leave b/c I know it's the only way I'll be happy again? but hurt him in the process. I don't even know if I'll ever find anyone in the future, and that scares the **** out of me, but at the same time, I know I know how to be happy and I can get there again in time. I deserve better, I know I do. I just can't take it anymore. Any advice???

Sorry, I know this is lengthy, just wanted to give a little background. Thanks for taking your time to read my post.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are both to young to waste your life in this.

Get into MC (find a good one) and work it out or end it.

Both of you need to sit down and read His Needs, Her Needs together.

Look you need to make this very blunt. THIS IS OUR LAST CHANCE!!!!!

Put a time limit on it and move forward one way or the other.

Good luck


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

Hi Jacangs,
I just read your post and I am sorry you're going through that. And I am so sorry about the loss of your baby ?that's something no parent should ever experience. Anyway, I do agree with the first poster here that seeking MC is your best bet; however, you also mentioned that your hubby won't do it. I suggest IC for yourself to figure out why you keep going back to a man who is emotionally abusive and just plain unavailable. You have to find it in yourself to leave and stay gone so you can be happy! Right now I am in IC and it is wonderful! If you have no desire to continue on in your marriage then you shouldn't pressure yourself to try. If your husband won't try then what is the point?? Bottom line is that you need to be happy without. He just sounds like a ball and chain. He has unresolved issues that he needs to workout and that won't happen if he doesn't seek help i.e. MC. ( sorry for the long lost). Best of luck. ?


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## jacangs (Feb 22, 2016)

thank you for taking your time in reading and giving me some advice. I agree. He refused MC, so whats the point now. I saw a counselor last year, 3 seperate sessions, by myself, and it really helped me realized I wanted out. There's just this part of me that feels horrible about hurting him. He's completely clueless no matter how many times I tell him how I feel and what I need out of this marriage. I agree, we are both too young to live the rest of our lives this way. and just a side note, it doesn't help either of us that I have had 5 miscarriages since we lost our son. I'm sure that's just as stressful for him as it is for me. Thanks again.


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## jacangs (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you for taking your time and reading my post and writing me. He refuses MC, always has, and last year when he begged me to stay, we wrote down eachothers needs and discussed out loud and wrote down the changes we can make to fulfill them. He just never followed through. He gets comfortable and pretends everything is fine. I'm just sick of living this way. Thank you again for your advice.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I would leave him. You gave him one chance to change and he didn't and he won't go to counseling. You don't have any children with him so that's not a factor. He doesn't seem to care. I think you know what you should do but it's difficult because this is all you have ever known and it's scary to be single again. Having separate bank accounts, doing your own laundry and grocery shopping just makes you guys act as roommates. It doesn't sound like you two ever combined your lives. With your next marriage start combing your lives from the very beginning of your marriage.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

jacangs said:


> We have always had an open line of communication and share our feelings and thoughts. We also are both very bull headed, and argue a lot. Fights within the past 5 years or so are way more controlled than in the past. Probably due to age and maturity. But we still fight. All the time.


What is maturity? Individuals that were born in the 30's can argue the same way that individuals in their 30's can.

The problem isn't necessarily the informing of a feeling or thought, it is the reception of it from the other individual.




> About the last year I was in school is when **** got real. We became more distant than usual. Sex doesn't exist. And more bickering over the dumbest stuff. I figured after school and I get settled in my job, things would change. That didn't happen I've been at the hospital for 2 years this July, and it's still horrible.


Things don't change themselves. 



> Last April, I decided to tell him, again, how I am feeling, but this time I was making the decision to leave. He, obviously, got upset with me. Not the worried, I care about you upset, the "ok, fine. Leave, I don't care." upset. Hurt me so much more to know he won't fight for me, but it also helped to know it's not worth it.


This is a difficult issue. On one hand an individual can say that the relationship is over, but desire their partner to fight for the relationship. What is the point of indicating that it is over, if the intention is to arouse a fighting response? This might work some times, at least at first, but it is not a long-term fix or fix that can work in an established relationship.

We have to always consider that our partner will accept our words and hold us to them. That doesn't mean he doesn't care. That means that he felt victimized and is trying the same ploy on you. He is trying to get you to drop your effort to leave him by upping the anty.




> He's the type of person that everyone thinks is such a saint, and everyone loves him. Including myself. Behind closed doors though, he is always angry, very selfish and just has a negative attitude. He doesn't physically abuse me, but mentally, yes. Kind of always has. But it's me and John, ya know? I don't know any other way.


He feels victimized. He rationalizes his negative energy by blaming you for it. Accepting his negative energy only validates him. Giving him negative energy only validates his reactions (to him).



> Sorry to ramble, ok, so after the hard talk, I had to stick around the house b/c i couldn't afford to move out at the time. A week later, an entire week, he finally talked to me after I asked if he had anything to say about all of it. I think it finally sunk in that I was for real due to the packed boxes sitting in the spare room. I wasn't joking. At this time, he started crying and begged me to stay.


Begging to stay isn't addressing the underlying issues. We can threaten to leave. We can actually leave. But, if there is actually hope for the relationship, we have to actually express that we want to work on the things. 





> How could I not? The last thing I want is to hurt him in any way. So we talked, wrote out our feelings, goals and ways to make things better. He promished he would try. He understands that I am lacking the passion, respect, communication in a marriage. I had built up a pretty thick wall at this point, but I too agreed to try again.


You have to change your underlying actions and reactions. Saying we are going to do XYZ doesn't work. The minute you step on each other's toes again, the emotional mine explodes. "Boom" and your habitual responses come out again.



> Bc I know he's not the only one that needs work. Oh, also, he refuses any sort of marriage counceling. So we are stuck with books, movies and our faith.


MC rarely works. It sure won't work when someone does not want to participate, anyways. You can't rely on someone else telling you what to do, when the underlying problem is bad perception and bad responses.




> Ok, fast forward almost a year....**** is back to the exact way they had been for 2 years prior. Yes, he made a little effort in the beginning, but that all faded away pretty quickly. As it always does. I'm pretty open so whenever theres is a problem, I address it to him. He's been trying for a long time. As of the first of the year, I made a vow to do any and everything possible to become a better wife and friend to him. Hoping he would try back. Nothing.


Do it for yourself. If you do it with the expectation that he must also, you are setting another emotional mine. You can disarm him, disarm yourself, and get him to change by dropping the expectations and focusing on perfecting yourself.



> A few weeks ago, he yelled at me saying that I ditch him all the time. I do not. Can't rememeber a time I ever did. He is VERY controlling and likes things his way. For example, If i go to lunch with a friend, but don't get home by the time he does, I get in trouble (b/c I'm "ditching" him). Pretty sure he's just using that as a reason, but it isn't the truth. So again, I did not even bother arguing with him, i'm over the fighting, and told him I'll do what I can to not make him feel that way.


He can't control you unless he elicits an emotional response within you. He can't control you unless you agree and give in. You validated (in his mind) his reaction by acknowledging that you are trying not to "make" him feel that way.





> We are exactly where we were almost a year ago. Do I go through it again, let him try again, for the millionth time, or just leave?? I am not happy. I am exhausted from trying with nothing in return. Emotionally drained. I guess that is why I'm reaching out on here. I'm at a loss. I go back and forth, I married him so do i just stay b/c that's what I'm suppose to do. and sacrafice my happiness?
> 
> Or do I leave b/c I know it's the only way I'll be happy again? but hurt him in the process. I don't even know if I'll ever find anyone in the future, and that scares the **** out of me, but at the same time, I know I know how to be happy and I can get there again in time. I deserve better, I know I do. I just can't take it anymore. Any advice???


If you have the will to work at it, and actually see the destination as possibly being happy, then yes, it can work. If you have no will, then it will fail. Even if you do give it some effort, a lot of the things I mentioned to you will help you, whether or not the relationship continues. Start acting like you would if you were still in the early dating days. Seriously. You should do this with your partner, and you should do this if you were dating a new man. I refuse to "fight" with my partner, but I will always talk and address any issues.

The hardest part to accept is that for this to work will require one person to lead the effort. Like it or not, this is you. You can do it.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

jacangs said:


> ...last year when he begged me to stay...He just never followed through. He gets comfortable and pretends everything is fine.


Close, but not enough. Good try pacing the boxes and threatening to leave, but you didn't leave. It wasn't QUITE enough of a wake u[p call.

Leave this time. You don't have to stay gone for good. but he TRULY needs to think you are. If that doesn't fix him, nothing will. But you already have the leaving part out of the way. 

And don't think that just because he "knows" what's wrong you have no control. He doesn't "know", trust me. Oh, I "knew" what was bothering my wife, but I had no idea how far she was gone. Once she walked, I got it. Loud and clear.

It all starts with leaving. It wither kick starts something in him and you have a chance, or it doesn't if you don't.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

jacangs said:


> I did not even bother arguing with him, i'm over the fighting, and told him I'll do what I can to not make him feel that way.


You can't make him feel anything. He is responsible for his own feelings, including how he would feel if you left. You need to wrap your head around that in order to leave without fear of "hurting him". 

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## jacangs (Feb 22, 2016)

you are right. thank you


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## jacangs (Feb 22, 2016)

Thank you for your advice. I agree I need to leave, even if just for a little bit. I just don't know what is actually stopping me...


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## jacangs (Feb 22, 2016)

Everything you mentioned makes perfect sense. Your advice is like none I've ever gotten. Thank you for taking your time to help me sort my thoughts. That is a lot to take in, and I will reread and think more, but I think the first thing I truely need to figure out is if I have the will to work for it. No one can make that decision but me. And unfortunately, right now, I can't say I know. Thank you again. Your advice and knowledge is very helpful. I am grateful.


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## Keepin-my-head-up (Jan 11, 2013)

Here is what you do,
You leave but tell him he has a chance to win you back.
If you want to give him that chance of course.

If you do that, you are giving him a last chance to do something about it, while allowing you to drop some of the guilt about leaving.

You can clear your head that way and decide if you want to try again.
Also, if he tries for awhile and gives up, well you will already be out so no worries


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

Jacangs,
You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. You can only save yourself. You said you have already packed your belongings, so now all you have to do is walk out the door. This should be a nice wake up call for your hubby. Once you leave you can go back to IC and find yourself again. As another poster has said, you don't need to be gone forever. You just can't continue this cycle because you're condoning his behavior. Also, it is no fault of yours regarding the miscarriages, and if he blames you for that then that's very cruel and even more reason to leave. Remember, ball and chain. 

---Best of luck


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## SoulCrushed16 (Feb 15, 2016)

Jacangs,

You mentioned that "I just don't know what is actually stopping me..." This is because you're afraid he will move on without you and you'll blame yourself for walking out on him and possibly pushing him into the arms of someone else. It's understandable but it is not reason enough for you stay with such a toxic person. He needs help. You want to work on yourself but your SO is unwilling. What exactly will this fix??


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> Here is what you do,
> You leave but tell him he has a chance to win you back.


Bad advice. She did that already. Did you read the part about the packed boxes?

For this plan to work, he has to truly think that it's over. There is no other way (I also fear that there's no way to make him think it's over until it truly is, but hopefully someone smart will figure that out and revolutionize relationship management forever some day).


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Take your boxes and go. You aren't happy and he isn't interested in making it work. Don't worry about "hurting him", because if he wanted this marriage, then he would be putting forth the effort to fight for it. 

Are you looking for permission? You don't need anyone's permission to move on to find happiness.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

It is pretty obvious that he is not going to make an effort for the relationship because when he did you stated that it didn't last long and the effort faded away pretty quickly. If he is unwilling to do his part and completely refuses marriage counseling then why bother working harder for a relationship that will not get better? That will just completely exhaust you as well. I would bring up the counseling again, if he refuses, then just pack up enough stuff to go stay somewhere else for a few weeks to give him some time to really take it all in and will give you the space you need to evaluate your happiness and what you need to do for you.


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