# Do families where wives are breadwinners have lower chances of success?



## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Megan Fox officially files for divorce from Brian Austin Green


I just saw this news this morning. Megan Fox was married to Brian Austin Green. She has been pretty successful over the past 5-7 years whereas his success was in the 90s. 

This line in the article stood out.



> TMZ claims Fox will most likely have to shell out spousal support to Green because *she’s been the bigger breadwinner in the family for a number of years*.


For millennia, the men have been the bread winners of the family and they pride themselves on that. Most men consider their jobs to be a very important part of their identity if not the most important, and base their self worth on their career success. In families where the wife is more successful and makes more money, I have always wondered how the husbands take it? They may make politically correct statements, but what do they feel deep inside? Do they feel worthless? Do they feel like their wives now order them around (even if she isn't)? 

We know a few couples where the wife is very successful and the husband is not, and in all those relationships, the men are laid back, unambitious and exhibit traditionally wife-like behaviors. Highly beta. These women probably would not be happy with another alpha man since they are very alpha themselves.

In this case. Austin-Green was a popular actor, so still might be hurting inside that he is probably now known as "Megan's husband". Reese Witherspoon and Ryan Phillipe were another such couple where her career shot up and his floundered and then they ended up divorcing.

How do many women look at their husbands when they are less successful than themselves? Lose respect? At least in our circles, the wives get togther and discuss (and gloat) about their husbands careers and promotions and titles, but the husbands never do so.

PS: I am talking in generalized and "most probable" terms, so there will be examples to prove things in either direction.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I am currently making the majority of money. He is starting his own self employment situation and needs time to ramp up his business. When we discuss it, he is very happy. Way happier than grinding on his former grindstone. Both our esteem is built on what we DO not how much money we make. That's us.


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## lilbitoluv (Aug 14, 2015)

I actually just made a similar post. I think when women take on roles that are traditionally male, it does cause a shift in how we see each other. I like strong men with a plan on how to make things happen. I believe a woman should be there to assist hence the term "helpmate". When men are not in those roles it does something to their self esteem and it's usually not very attractive.

I have never dated a man that made less money than i do, so it hasnt been an issue for me, but i think I would feel a way if he did. just being honest


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

My ex abused my money . I had not mind that i made more . But i mind that he doesnt contribute n act like a man . Everytime i do a deal , he's planning on how to spend thst money . N ON HIMSELF N HIS PARENTS N SISTERS .NOT EVEN ON US OR KIDS . 

To me that's a loser . N he hits me when i ask for debts to be paid back .

Highly "beta" ? Or highly "loser"?

Probably wont ever marry "down" the next round


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

You said the two magic words T; My ex.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> You said the two magic words T; My ex.



???


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

Interesting. I do think that families where women are the primary breadwinners, or where traditional family roles are reversed have a higher liklehood of divorce. I currently make slightly more than my wife. I am retired Air Force. Although, she will be making more than me soon. I take care of our son while she works.

From my POV it does make things in a relationship more challenging. Although, my wife and I have had issues since before we married. She is about to become a detective in law enforcement. 

In this relationship I definitely like a classic beta male. I went from a senior NCO in the USAF to a house husband. Definitely a struggle IMO. 

A couple of times she has told me to "man up." Even though she knows I deployed in a combat role to Afghanistan and Iraq. If I was working I wonder if she would have used such language with me. 

She likes traditional male/female roles IMO. I do think she maybe a little resentful of me staying home while she works, and I do not blame her for that. She grew up in a family with traditional male/female roles. I did not. In my home growing up men and women did whatever needed to be done, no matter what it was. Men and women fixed things, cooked, did dishes, did yard work, both men and women earned an income, both men and women looked after the kids etc. In her family women cooked, women stayed home and looked after the kids, men worked, women cleaned, men did yard work etc.

We tried counseling, but that lasted only a few sessions. She decided to stop going, I still go.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Personal disclosure: I make slightly more than double of my wife at this point. I am poised to get a new job that looks likely to bump up my pay by 30%-35%. If she switches jobs in some months, her pay may increase by about 20%.

Currently, we do not have such issues because the situation isn't as above. Last October, I had gotten laid off and she had just started working after being a SAHM for many years, and I must say that I did see some change in her behavior towards me. Not very brazen, but just subtle. It did bug me and I felt disrespected after shouldering the burden of income for 15 years. She would come back home from work, sit on the couch and demand that I get her coffee. Not rudely, but I could sense a tone of authority. Or maybe it was my own low spirits, who knows? She would talk about being very busy and sometimes hint that I had a lot of time on my hands. I felt she was being very insensitive. So that's my personal experience.

My current point of view is that by and large, women always want to "marry up" and to a successful powerful rich man and exhibit changed behavior when they make more than their husbands. In the Indian community, the women frequently ask each other what their husbands do when they meet, and to say "my husband is at home and takes care of our kids" is not a very happy thing do. It is another way of saying "I married a loser" or that is how it is seen. In my case it was temporary, but in some couples, it is a lifelong shift of power. Male ego usually cannot deal with it. I personally don't want to be in such a situation as I won't react very well to it.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Since my parents, aunts, and uncles were primarily immigrants, we were pushed academically so we do not have to work like they did. Naturally, most of my female cousins make more than their male counterparts. On average about two to three times, and they have successful relationship, although they are married to males who do not mind taking on the supporting roles. Just like most of my male cousins make more than their wives, and they play more of the support role.

My female cousins' husband do not mind their wives making more since they also enjoy the benefit like annual company cruises, trips to New Zealand, Australia, England, Germany.

I make about 30k more than my gf, and I have more potential to earn more. If i do marry, I hope she supports my career because of the potential.

Attitudes are changing in the millennials though. Even in hunter/gather societies, females usually bring in more resources. So culture plays a role as well.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Marriages where the wife is the main bread winner, even by just a small amount tend to not do well. I'm sure some outliers will chime in to disagree but woman need to look up to their man. That's why you rarely hear of a female mgr being in a relationship/affair with an employee but the opposite is VERY common. Not to mention the hight amount of SAHD that get played out or left.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

nirvana said:


> My current point of view is that by and large, women always want to "marry up" and to a successful powerful rich man and exhibit changed behavior when they make more than their husbands.


Careful….you're treading in red pill waters.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> Careful….you're treading in red pill waters.


heh I know... but we have to talk about such things rather than shy away.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

nirvana said:


> heh I know... but we have to talk about such things rather than shy away.


Indeed!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

70% of married women work.

In about 40% of marriages, women are the major bread winner. 1/3 of these women earn more because their husbands do not work.

It is true that divorce rates are a bit higher when the woman is the bread winner. There are another statistics that point to where the problems might be.

Men who are financially dependent on their wife (or SO) are 5 times more likely to cheat than men who earn more than their wives.

Men who are financially dependent on their wife do much less housework then men who are not financially dependent on their wife.

What's the solution? For a woman who earns more to make sure she picks a guy who is not threatened by her income. And for her to pick a guy who is working and contributing to society even if he's earning less than she.

I think that we will find that the younger generations will handle this situation better than the older ones have because they were not raised with as much of the stigma and socialization that says that men need to be the breadwinner and women need to be his "helpmate" and have no identity of her own.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

It's not "changed behaviour" by the woman just because the man earns more . It's respect .

But like my ex , maybe he changed , thinking he can spend the wife's money .

Then i lose respect depite repeated cries to foot bills .

Who changed ? 

Him first .

At one time , i even purposefully reduce the jobs i take in so i don't earn much n lesser than him . N i told him hey your income is higher now , how abt i take a back seat . I hoped he would feel better .

Hell no !!!! He ran into more debts n i am digging into savings to pay bills n debts .

So finally i have to tell him off if he has no.intention to feed me and kids at least let me know so i wont reduce my work n earnings . Damn !!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I know many women who earn more than their husbands. They difference in their income does not cause a problem because they couple is mature enough to know that income is far from the only factor that is important.

A man does not have to earn more than a woman to be someone to look up to and respect. There is just so much more that is important.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Maybe my ex is sick in the mind.

Btw what's red pill water ?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tripad said:


> Maybe my ex is sick in the mind.
> 
> Btw what's red pill water ?


In this context, I think it was used to mean feminism.. you know as in... we are about to get feminists pissed off.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I've wondered how nature plays a role in this. It seems like a lot of us men are hard wired wanting to feel like we can provide and protect our *wife and children* where a lot of women are hard wired to protect the* children but not so much the husband*. Maybe these tendencies don't mean a hill of beans regarding chances of success when the wife makes more money but it certainly adds more variables to deal with.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> And for her to pick *a guy who is working and contributing to society even if he's earning less than she*.


^ This ^

I have several friends whose husbands earn much less than they do. One husband is a politician currently in an elected position (they don't make diddly squat) and the other works for a non-profit organization. Both are passionate about their work and their wives love that about them. 
@nirvana, it's not about the money. It's about living a purpose driven life, whatever that happens to be.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> I've wondered how nature plays a role in this. It seems like a lot of us men are hard wired wanting to feel like we can provide and protect our *wife and children* where a lot of women are hard wired to protect the* children but not so much the husband*. Maybe these tendencies don't mean a hill of beans regarding chances of success when the wife makes more money but it certainly adds more variables to deal with.



Why is my ex not wired to provide for wife m children ? 

Frankly i will drop n be a housewife if a man will provide . 

But aft my ex , not sure now . No confidence that a man will provide


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here and 35 years married. My husband and I were college classmates. At the beginning of our marriage, my husband made twice more than I did. Twenty-five years ago, I completed my doctorate degree and we moved to my new job. Today, I make 4 times more than my husband. We have joint accounts on everything. We have not changed dynamics. We share the household chores.

We have the same goals that we set forth at the beginning of our marriage. Two of the top goals are to be debt free with a house and early retirement. Early retirement is looming ahead and we are poised to meet it. A good marriage is about loving each other with respect. It is not about competition.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

tripad said:


> Why is my ex not wired to provide for wife m children ?
> 
> Frankly i will drop n be a housewife if a man will provide .
> 
> But aft my ex , not sure now . No confidence that a man will provide


I should have been more specific in that I was only talking about the men and women who have purpose and ambition. Your ex wasn't in that group. Maybe he was in the group that does just enough to survive due to poor choices and laziness. If I had daughters I would tell them there's no substitute for being able to be independent even when they chose to be financially depend on someone they love and trust.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

I think there are 2 types of husbands whose wives make more or much more than them.

1. They have had success but something's gone wrong and they want to get it back. They are trying their best and failing. They are frustrated.
2. They enjoy the easy life where the wife works and they enjoy the wealth.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

nirvana said:


> I think there are 2 types of husbands whose wives make more or much more than them.
> 
> 1. They have had success but something's gone wrong and they want to get it back. They are trying their best and failing. They are frustrated.
> 2. They enjoy the easy life where the wife works and they enjoy the wealth.


What woman would want the second catogory ?


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> I should have been more specific in that I was only talking about the men and women who have purpose and ambition. Your ex wasn't in that group. Maybe he was in the group that does just enough to survive due to poor choices and laziness. If I had daughters I would tell them there's no substitute for being able to be independent even when they chose to be financially depend on someone they love and trust.


yup .

after the divorce , I had an ex who doesnt support financially just like in marriage and fighting to send only peanuts for both kids !!!!!

I increased my job and I am earning more than him again , without him knowing .
:x:x>>

Gosh , the ability to have the money and lead your life according to your wish and fancy is so BEAUTIFUL . No more scrimp and save to feed including HIM and his debts .

so going forward , no more "marry down" .

I think human are overcome by greed after a while . My ex and his family did . Or maybe they are like that all along . I was blinded . or he faked it .

and I must add that much that I earn more , it doesnt mean that the female is a feminist . I worked with a passion and hard , hence I am good and business flood in through recommendation , hence the money . Not that I am walking around struting like a butch .

generally man has that misconception . By circumstances , I worked really hard and with blesssings I earn alot . But anytime , I love to be a stay at home mum , especially when kids were young .

Yup yup

my ex is not in this category in this thread for discussion . He is not a man . He earns a decent income in the corporate company but he and his family lives like they included my income in their expenditure too . He admitted that he told his family about my income everytime I do a deal !!!!

I think the asian culture , especially , doesnt take well that the woman makes more since the asian culture is a little more traditional . Unless in my case , my ex was plain abusing my money .

Going forward , I may end up with a non asian man .


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

nirvana said:


> Megan Fox officially files for divorce from Brian Austin Green


If I had to guess, I'd say that their "open" marriage arrangement likely had something to do w/ this.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

tripad said:


> yup .
> 
> after the divorce , I had an ex who doesnt support financially just like in marriage and fighting to send only peanuts for both kids !!!!!
> 
> ...


I agree tripad. Independence is a wonderful thing and I like the other aspects of your comment as well. You sound like a responsible adult doing what you have to do and not making excuses. Hopefully some day a guy will surprise you and be everything you hoped for. Then you'll have a real partner and not someone leaching off of you or insecure about your ability.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> 70% of married women work.
> 
> In about 40% of marriages, women are the major bread winner. 1/3 of these women earn more because their husbands do not work.
> 
> ...



I agree to an extent. The primary needs of both need to be met and oftentimes these non traditional roles interfere with those needs. 

For example, a man's greatest need from his wife isn't love, it's respect. Conversely, a woman needs love, yes, but she primarily needs to feel cherished.

I believe that the man suffers most when traditional roles are reversed because he is typically less respected in such an arrangement.

I would also think that a man, not feeling like the provider, would be impacted on how he views his wife. He may not cherish her as he should and instead feel envy, anger or self pity instead.

Not saying this is always the case but apparently something is happening in these scenarios that is impacting core needs on both sides.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

nirvana said:


> I think there are 2 types of husbands whose wives make more or much more than them.
> 
> 1. They have had success but something's gone wrong and they want to get it back. They are trying their best and failing. They are frustrated.
> 2. They enjoy the easy life where the wife works and they enjoy the wealth.


You seem to assume that the only way that a woman can earn more than her husband is if he's fallen on hard times.. or he's a #2 can basically lazy.

There is a #3. The husband has success in his career/vocation. His wife just happens to make more than him. There can be many reasons for this. Maybe she has more education that translates into higher pay. Or maybe she just darn lucky to have landed a position that pays a lot more. Or maybe she owns/runs a successful company.

It's not a negative for a woman to earn more than her husband.

.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

lilbitoluv said:


> I actually just made a similar post. I think when women take on roles that are traditionally male, it does cause a shift in how we see each other. I like strong men with a plan on how to make things happen. I believe a woman should be there to assist hence the term "helpmate". When men are not in those roles it does something to their self esteem and it's usually not very attractive.
> 
> I have never dated a man that made less money than i do, so it hasnt been an issue for me, but i think I would feel a way if he did. just being honest


This. My beliefs about marriage and relationships are traditional. 
My husband is also old fashioned so we are perfect for each other in that regard. There is no way my husband would feel good about himself if I made more money than he did. 

I don't understand the need to gloat about my husband's title. If someone asks me what he does, I will tell them that he is an engineer but there is no smugness. I think bragging is a sign of insecurity.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

Thundarr said:


> I've wondered how nature plays a role in this. It seems like a lot of us men are hard wired wanting to feel like we can provide and protect our *wife and children* where a lot of women are hard wired to protect the* children but not so much the husband*. Maybe these tendencies don't mean a hill of beans regarding chances of success when the wife makes more money but it certainly adds more variables to deal with.


So true! My husband takes his role of provider very seriously.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Mrs.Submission said:


> So true! My husband takes his role of provider very seriously.


treasure him

i will take him if you dont :grin2::grin2:

my ex doesn't provide and worse spend and get debts and begged me to bail only to abuse me physically when i wanted a more responsible man


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> You seem to assume that the only way that a woman can earn more than her husband is if he's fallen on hard times.. or he's a #2 can basically lazy.
> 
> There is a #3. The husband has success in his career/vocation. His wife just happens to make more than him. There can be many reasons for this. Maybe she has more education that translates into higher pay. Or maybe she just darn lucky to have landed a position that pays a lot more. Or maybe she owns/runs a successful company.
> 
> It's not a negative for a woman to earn more than her husband.


*And there is a No. 4, Ele!

My best friend's wife got a Master's degree in business from a mid-level national university as did he, but she was employed by a well-known International oil company, eventually earning a substantial six figure income and traveling internationally for them. While they are religious and are quite active in their church, my friend with his MBA, was not nearly as fortunate job wise as his wife. He basically was a stay at home dad with their two children and he, like myself, was an avocational sports official at both the collegiate and high school stratifications. Together, they raised both of their girls to be honor roll students with both of them procuring degrees in International Studies from a renowned but rather expensive West Coast university.

They live in a rather nice suburban home in Houston and have never ever been greedy about their income and work situations! They both feel that God has truly blessed them so very much with what has happened to them within the course of their married lives!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I guess I feel sad for people who equate success with money. What a pathetic thing to work so hard for.


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## Mrs.Submission (Aug 16, 2015)

tripad said:


> treasure him
> 
> i will take him if you dont :grin2::grin2:
> 
> my ex doesn't provide and worse spend and get debts and begged me to bail only to abuse me physically when i wanted a more responsible man


*hug* So sorry you had to go through that. :crying:

Have you set up any legal or financial supports? 

I do cherish my husband. He's a wonderful man; a dying breed in today's world.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Legally fighting over the matrimonial home , that b*stard . N offering peanuts for child support . 

So legally trying to settle that .

Thank God I earn decent . In fact I ramp up my work n as of today i earn more than my ex . N i proudly , as do my two sons tell me , are able to support 3 of us without his contribution .

In fact my ex had all along been a liability all along .


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I've wondered how nature plays a role in this. It seems like a lot of us men are hard wired wanting to feel like we can provide and protect our *wife and children* where a lot of women are hard wired to protect the* children but not so much the husband*. Maybe these tendencies don't mean a hill of beans regarding chances of success when the wife makes more money but it certainly adds more variables to deal with.


With both bolded sections taken together, I think you are on to something. 

It might be that a lot of women want to be fair, but subconsciously they see their only obligations as with the children and maybe some infirm adults like parents or grandparents.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You seem to assume that the only way that a woman can earn more than her husband is if he's fallen on hard times.. or he's a #2 can basically lazy.
> 
> There is a #3. The husband has success in his career/vocation. His wife just happens to make more than him. There can be many reasons for this. Maybe she has more education that translates into higher pay. Or maybe she just darn lucky to have landed a position that pays a lot more. Or maybe she owns/runs a successful company.
> 
> ...


Let's also just accept that there are some careers that pay less than others.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

My current view:

In an ideal world the answer should be "No". Husband and wife should appreciate each others contributions.

In the real world and from personal experience, my answer is "Yes". I believe that women judge a man to a large degree based on his career success/income. This could be purely because of evolutionary reasons where a rich/powerful man has enough resources to take care of her children. That is why you see old and unattractive rich men with attractive women, but rarely the other way around (are there any?). I have never been in a group of men who are discussing and gloating about their wives career successes. My wife tells me when women get to know each other, frequently they inquire about what their husband does for a living, most likely as a data point to size each other up for status. 
I believe that women genuinely want their husbands to be successful and powerful. I am not 100% sure that men share the same feelings... they want their wives to be successful but not more than them. Reason is simple, loss of status, ego, feeling of not being relevant etc. I wouldn't fault men for feeling this way, but that is just part of life. In Fox-Green's situation, I can easily see him feeling resentful that his career did not do well while his wife's is in better shape. This may come up in marital arguments/fights.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

tripad said:


> I think the asian culture , especially , doesnt take well that the woman makes more since the asian culture is a little more traditional . Unless in my case , my ex was plain abusing my money .
> 
> Going forward , I may end up with a non asian man .


Be careful, non Asian men come with their own set of problems. 

I am Asian too (India is in Asia) and we see some of these problems there as well. My generation is the first to have women working in large numbers. This has given them financial power. Some use it well, but some misuse it. Some forget that they need their husbands and think in terms of "I am not like my mother" after seeing their fathers sometimes mistreat their mothers. So they overdo the feminist bit on their husbands. This is not all the time but I have seen this quite a lot. The men are not used to dealing with situations of an financially assertive female. They did not grow up knowing how to deal with this.

In Western societies, women working is not new. They have been working since the 40s and earlier. Hence the ease in adjustment. This does not make a non-Asian man any better or worse intrinsically. We are products of our environment.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Nirvana

Of course non asian man has different set of culture and problem as well.

But financially doing better than the husband , i think , is harder for the traditional Asian to swallow .


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I've always felt like that "helpmate" to my husband ... I enjoy serving him, wanting to do whatever is needed to help our lives run smoother.... together as a team....and I've always looked up to him for how hard he works & cares for our family... there is an admiration/ respect there that is hard to put into words.. felt very strongly... 

There is always a reminder, it's not the 40's or 50's anymore .... with this high % of women making even more over their husbands...a woman dedicating her life to her husband /family, doing her end in the home -holding down the forte (even if they can survive & thrive on this)... it's just not enough anymore..she is expected to DO and BE more than that. 

My husband has never let me feel under valued in any way.. even if a growing % of society feels just that. 

Truth is...I've thought about this...If I made more money over my husband... I feel it could upset our balance somehow ...yeah.. it might go to my head... making just a fraction of what he does.. it keeps me humble / "in reverence" and well.. I could use some of that!.. as I have the more "take charge" (can I say Alpha) personality over him anyway...

He's a good Man, very family oriented...he's got that "Provide & Protect" thing ingrained into him... .. I so much appreciate this in a man..


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

i think this has a lot to do with the value you place on money. If money is the driving force of your life then who earns more is possibly going to be an issue. Not in all cases but some. My mom always made more than my dad by a large stretch and never mattered to either of them.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> i think this has a lot to do with the value you place on money. If money is the driving force of your life then who earns more is possibly going to be an issue. Not in all cases but some. My mom always made more than my dad by a large stretch and never mattered to either of them.


It may not be the woman having money getting over her head .

In my case , I made more , it didnt get to my head . BUT , it got to his head and his evil lazy parents' and sisters' head that they can spend beyond their means and get into debts since my husband can get me to pay ! 

Frankly , it did cross my mind that he possibly could have fed a woman too .

But I have decided to leave since he was abusing me financially and then physically when I refused to go on the same way .So I didnt bother to find out if there was a woman .


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## Dycedarg (Apr 17, 2014)

Yes, but most people generally have an unhealthy emotional status anyway. As others have already suggested, the problem is likely not inherently in a woman making more money.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Well, there's Bill and Hillary. And then there's Chris Christie and his wife. She makes 3 times more than he does. Anyone know anything about their marriage?


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