# Her esteem is crushed



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Since seperation, my wife may seem fine now but I can tell her esteem is crushed. She always insists that she's feeling better, though after spending some time together we end up opening up... 

She says that she's been rejected so many times, and that sometimes she feels that she's wasting her time trying to make things work because she fears being rejected again. She's been thinking about how life would have been like if she didn't marry me, etc. These were good, natural thoughts, and I encouraged her to tell me as I want her honest so I won't be wasting my time either.

She says that she's got used to it to her own shame. And when I initiate she rarely rejects me and when she initiates she feels like she makes a fool of herself. I told her that I don't initiate by shoving myself inside her before getting her body ready for it and nor should she with me because that's what it felt like - that she was jumping on my flaccid penis. How the hell would I be in the mood for that? I reaffirmed her that it's not that I don't find her attractive or have no desire for her, etc etc, and was transparent in telling her how I was feeling in response to certain scenarios she brought up.

She says that she knows this and understands it now but it doesn't help, and that she just can't take it anymore. I reminded her that this is why we're working through this, that neither of us can take each other's sh-t no more and (tell me if I did the right thing...)... I told her that I miss her, our daughter and living together but I didn't tell her a certain feeling: I'm feeling for her again. I don't know if I should. I told her however that I have faith in her, and that I want to do my part, even that she inspired me.

Hell I dunno, how to rebuild her esteem? Sure her counselling is helping alot and chances are she would probably have been a lot worse and more clueless if not. But I want to help her, I've explained everything but it doesn't seem to help.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You're kidding right?

Her self esteem is tied to having sex MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY. And yet she "feels like a fool" when you physically cannot have sex. Sure she says she "knows this" but she's lying. She doesn't.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So how can I help her rebuild her esteem / help her figure it out in a healthier way? Or should I remain hands-off and leave it for her counsellor - and stop discussing all these depressing topics with her? And just keep reaffirming her until I can safely say I've done it a few billion times? heh

It feels like I'm walking on a tightrope when dealing with her about these things. I don't want to push her past her limit (again). All this reminds me of a friend a long time ago, she was absolutely beautiful, yet had incredibly low esteem on her physical appearance because she was dark-skinned, and went for skin-lightening treatments. Sad really, and fragile in their own way - both of them.


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## MegD (Dec 24, 2012)

It's possible she's looking for intimacy more than sex. If you want to work things out with her maybe try less sex and spend more time making her feel loved. Bring her her favorite flowers, hug her from behind, tell her she's beautiful when she's wearing no makeup and doesn't have her hair done (and mean it), check her out, flirt with her, snuggle and watch a movie, and when you two have sex make it about her. Make sure you know you think she's sexy and never say anything to the contrary until her self-confidence is better.

If you don't want to make things work don't be her confidant. She will never get better if you pull on her heart strings over and over again. The therapist will help, but she can only fix herself. It's good she's seeing one though; I feel we all need to at one point in our lives.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Support don't enable. If you don't know what that means look it up there is a difference. Support does not mean explain either. What you did was explain. She won't get that.

If she brings up feeling rejection then you affirm her feelings. "It must feel terrible to feel like I don't want you". Parrot back what you think she's feeling in YOUR words. Don't explain your side. Just listen and affirm. Let her talk....you listen. Women figure things out by talking out loud. Its why therapy works so well. 

But if you explain your side you negate her feelings. Yes her feelings are flawed but she has the right to them same as you. You keep your boundaries in tact while still affirming her feelings. Make sense?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

True, guess that's all I can do, it does get difficult however to not want to explain to her when she accuses me of not wanting her etc etc. Thanks though, I'll try -> guess next time she accuses me I'll just bite my lip. It's very annoying because she has accused me of this for 4 years.

@MegD

That's what I love to do, I prefer intimacy over sex, thrill of the chase and all that too, my wife however is the other way round. We're seperated due to a very big fight when we both reached our breaking point over this issue, now we're both doing IC and working with each other to see if we can overcome this issue as well as our dynamics revolving around this problem we've had for the last 4 years. She doesn't seem to appreciate intimacy unless it comes with sex, though sometimes she does, rare though.


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## gretta (Dec 28, 2012)

One thing we ladies with "low self-esteem" just haven't seem to become very good with is communicating. When we confide in our "spouse"/"significant other" we don't want a fix, we don't need instructions, we just want affirmation that you have heard what we are _truley_ saying. Having you acknowledge our feelings and trying to comprehend how we feel means more to use than fixing a problem. 

Many times those of use with the low self-esteem, myself included, are looking for that unconditional love that some how eludes us. It eludes us because we have never felt worthy of this love, yet it is the one thing we crave the most. We may be strong in so many other aspects of our lives, but this one area can effect us more deeply than any other area. 

Mavash hit it on the the head with being a Parriot to our Poly. Give me small ways I can grab on to the best of whom I am and I will continue to build on it with the help of others. Tell me what I am doing wrong or provide instructions and I will find away of turning it back onto myself. I will critique it to death, find fault with everything I do, because I obviously am not doing it right. Teach me by leading (a little hint here and there is a wealth of knowledge); understand that time will heal the wonds, but we never forget. Our lack of self-esteem seems to become our best friend at times. Be aware that it quickly can turn in to a depression so deep that it can become so overwhelming. Been there; done that applies to many of us.

Understand you are doing some real good by being truthful, just change the presentation.

Wishing much success.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

She has issues you can't fix. She equates sex with love, she equates you being sexually available to her anytime all the time with love. 
Honestly I think even in she didn't have issues before being an escort she probably developed some. 
I would validate but let the counselor do their work. 
I would ask her what man over the age of 16 would be able to respond to a woman multiple times a day every day at the drop of a hat? But this really has nothing to do with logic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks for this guys, I can see what I've done wrong, going to keep reminding myself of what affirmation really is until I change this habit of trying to solve/explain/fix everything - including what's not my problems.

As for her issues, she had a lifestyle similar to this during her escort days, and seeing her history a pattern can be seen. It's the same pattern as other sex addicts, except many had walked very different paths; for example -> serial cheaters. My wife seems to have tried to put a plug on her issues by "nunning" up in church years ago and it seems to have granted her some form of healing but since her faith was shattered things just were never the same.

The ironic thing is that considering my wife's reasons for rejecting threesomes/swinging (been there/done that reason): If my wife didn't go through what she did as an escort, she would have most definitely have become a serial cheater. I don't know whether to consider myself fortunate or not.

Underneath all her fangs and teeth and claws and spikes and vicious manipulativeness... she does have a heart and she does want to be a good person.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Underneath all her fangs and teeth and claws and spikes and vicious manipulativeness... she does have a heart and she does want to be a good person.


While this may be true it will take A LOT of work for her to be a good person. She's simply too damaged to do otherwise.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I know, and I'm worried, but I have to focus on myself instead of fearing what may happen with my wife. It's... tough. I'm much more vulnerable now then on the early days of seperation as well, I'm no longer hardened. She's in a ripe position to break my heart and I can feel the fear. But I want to have faith that she can do this, I didn't support her 5 years ago and instead shattered her faith leading to all this mess, I want to support her now, and hope for the best.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I know you're in the womens section for a reason...and rightfully so. But I feel I'll have to comment and just say "C'mon man!"

I don't really know what you're expecting from her at this point. She loves you, you don't love her. This whole talking about how she wants to have sex with you is pretty meaningless now don't you think? You seem to just be bringing up the same ish over and over again when clearly this is beyond repair. I mean...I've tried to say this in a watered down supportive way but that's lost in this situation. You just need to make a clean break. You don't want her. It's so clear....


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I thought I didn't, I couldn't feel sh-t when I was hardened, but now I am so confused you have no idea. I really don't want to lose her, I don't want anyone else not to mention the chance of someone else for me out there is just too slim at my age and being a DILF.

I really don't know anymore, when we were seperating I was ready to lose her forever. Now with my feelings no longer blocked I feel like I'm going insane just thinking about how slim the chances are that we can truly make things work, I lose her and I'm fked. If she tells me that she's had enough of trying... hell I wonder if I have the strength to not break down myself.

EDIT: Ah screw this, I'm taking her out, might as well do it properly, spend some time with her, prepare her somewhat... I can't keep my feelings to myself anymore, I have to let her know. She'll probably reply with something like "I have a hard time believing that" I don't know, why she even bothers after all I've done I have no idea. Why I even bother I have no idea... oh thats right, I can't just stop loving her so fast, my subconscious defence mechanism can suppress it to the point I feel nothing and even convinced me that I've fallen out of love.

Or maybe it's just her reminding me that we can still salvage this and that how our lives could be if we didn't have the dramas (we had a good bday for me, a good xmas, and a good new years, and it's been consistent), that made me start falling for her again, remembering the good times, reminding me that if we fix this, we could still have the good times.

I don't know, I just know she has to know otherwise I may regret this for the rest of my life that I didn't tell her while I still had the chance.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ok, got a date! 

Now I let me just get it right. 
Affirmation = NOT explaining my POV, listening to HER POV, affirming her feelings, shut the fk up about mine, no ifs, no buts, no excuses, she can taunt me but I shouldn't react. Listen and parrot, repeat and ask for a cracker.

Correct? I'm going to consciously remind myself of this tonight if she comes seeking affirmation from me again. Glad I still got my 'cards' on me too, been saving them, I know exactly where to take her hehe. Think if she breaks my heart tonight it's going to be epic and I'll remember it for the rest of my life but meh... who cares eh? Need to walk the dagger's edge on this one.

Besides if I can't be vulnerable and transparent I can't expect her to be, someone's gotta give, and I think it's my turn right? Hell here goes, wish me luck


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Update...

Well, turns out it may actually be too late; she closed up as soon as I told her my feelings after our meetup, she also didn't bring up anything - I suspect I may have fked it up enough that she doesn't want to confide in me no more due to me stupidly trying to explain everything to her? No? I dunno

As for the meetup/date I think I may have messed it up, can't figure out what I did wrong. I took her out somewhere which was very personal/memorable to us back in the day (or so I thought, should have quit while I was ahead - she didn't remember sh-t until I had to remind her - maybe it meant more to me then it meant to her. Hell I dunno, maybe I'm an elephant, or maybe she's just being blonde *ahem* I meant, she just had too much other stuff in her mind.

I told her everything. She seemed surprised at first, then got quiet, she became rather non-responsive, I asked her what's wrong, she said she doesn't know *sigh*. I said that I shouldn't have said anything and she replied strongly "No" that she needed to hear it. It was... awkward. She didn't say it back, maybe I was too beta?

Or is it because she's p-ssed that I put her through thinking that I don't? That's my first impression but hell I don't get you women!!! 7 years and I still don't get my wife! Damn! Or maybe she's just as confused as I am, well this sucks. Now I'm home alone and wondering WTF I did wrong.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks, well the whole thing would be easier if divorce isn't right around the corner... I just made myself look like a fool by spouting lovey doveys in front of my wife but maybe I am thinking too much. She's not normally like this, that's all. I just don't get it =/


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> not to mention the chance of someone else for me out there is just too slim at my age and being a DILF


I believe THIS is the reason you don't want to let her go; not that you LOVE HER SO MUCH, but that you FEAR BEING ALONE.

THAT is THE VERY WORST reason to try to resurrect this relationship. It's unfair to your wife, it's unfair to your daughter, and it's unfair to you. 

How many years are you two going to make your daughter watch this train wreck? ...until she creates her OWN?!?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> I told her everything. She seemed surprised at first, then got quiet, she became rather non-responsive, I asked her what's wrong, she said she doesn't know *sigh*. I said that I shouldn't have said anything and she replied strongly "No" that she needed to hear it. It was... awkward. She didn't say it back, maybe I was too beta?


Yes. Beta.

She is in NO position to care about you right now. Hell, for that matter, neither are you. 

If BOTH of you can't go 6 months without being with a person of the opposite sex, you have no business seeing each other. You need to learn to be ok BY YOURSELF before you can be a decent partner for someone else.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what if divorce is around the corner? Lots of people get together again after a divorce. It's not a death sentence. Stop acting like it's a cliff you're diving off of. It's just another day, just legally changed.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You think too much.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@SlowlyGettingWiser

That is a possibility that I have not ruled out, the only way I can make myself sure it seems however is if there is someone else in the picture and if I still choose my wife. Unfortunately I have burned all bridges and potentials and decided to remain committed to my wife. Why I have no idea. Perhaps this is all it is; fear. but I don't know. I only know what I'm feeling atm. It's fear and everything else.

If she didn't want this anymore and told me she's had enough. I wouldn't hesitate to lose her however, I'm not one to chase after something dead.

@Turnera

Interesting... is it really that wrong to share feelings? I dunno
I'm not going to be interested in getting back with her if we divorce. This is our last straw, and if she decides we've tried hard enough and it's not working and leaves, she will have my blessing. So the divorce - it's final if it happens, I'm not going to lose 50% of my assets to a SAHM just to get back with her when I know it won't work in a few years time if it can't work now. It's now or never.

(And yes, I will hate her for life for taking 50% of my assets which she hasn't worked a cent for, and it's WAY MORE then what she would have earned as a housekeeper/nanny last 4 years.)

The thing is too that she's been saying ILUs and that she doesn't want to give up on us and that she believes we can still make it work and had not had her feelings recipocated, I felt bad for her but I couldn't feel it at that time hence could not say it. I prefer to be honest when it comes to emotional lovey doveys, even if I know my emotions are blocked I won't say ILU unless I feel it.

Always have been - women always know where they stand with me, whether my wife or OSFs or past gfs or past FWBs. Now that I feel it, whether it's love or not I just wanted her to know. Guess it is beta what I did, oh well, too late now.

@Decorum

I've been thinking about it this morning - had a rude customer to get my mind off things for a while too, told him and his wife to get fked, abusing my staff, trespassing on staff working areas, disrupting the service, and disrupting other customers. I found it rather interesting how the other customers thanked me after I kicked him out lol. And the staff loved it too, wouldn't do their jobs properly though, they were celebrating bah! Oh well, they needed to get over it.

Anyways, that straightened my brain out a bit (funny how useful a distraction can be!) to reflect on last night I realised I should have played it more smoothly, it went smoothly until I went all lovey dovey on her. A man shouldn't be open with his feelings in that way, have to be cool calm and collected. I learnt this so many years ago but I guess I wasn't thinking straight last night, my game sucked at the end. I ruined the evening.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Anyways I'm not going to text her today unless she texts me, she hasn't yet, so ok, give her some space to think things through.

@Turnera

Actually this got me thinking...


> If BOTH of you can't go 6 months without being with a person of the opposite sex, you have no business seeing each other. You need to learn to be ok BY YOURSELF before you can be a decent partner for someone else.


Perhaps this is codependency at work here? Like, I'm still attached, and I shouldn't be right? Should be able to let go, yet I didn't last night when I confessed my feelings. I just felt like she needed to know. I wasn't looking for sex, didn't get any obviously either. I just wanted to let her know because that's how I'm feeling. I could have played a smoother card at the end but instead decided to be transparent and vulnerable and may have turned her off in the process yes? I don't know.

We're going to be in each other's lives whether we like it or not and our daughter is happy that we still go out as a family. It's not like we can just tell each other "no contact for 6 months" unless we give up the whole co-parenting agreement that we have established that has so far put a smile back on our daughter. It's going to be very fake if we stop seeing each other for either dates/study into codependency/our dynamics just to prove that we can survive the 6 months and while our daughter wants us all to live together again.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RD, you have gotten some good advice here.

I think you were right telling her how you feel. My take on things is that you telling her your feelings has sent her to a place mentally/emotionally where she is evaluating a lot of things. Give it some time. Let things fall into place. And yes you are over thinking things right now.

Your whole thing about how you will not be able to find anyone if the two of you split for good is, well nonsense. You are young. There are plenty of good women out there.

You will be ok no matter which path this takes.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks... yeah, I am overthinking stuff, going to let go, it's almost the weekend and its still holidays (working my a$$ off!). Have to focus on that and my daughter, as for my wife I've done my part yes?

I think divorce is frightening me somewhat now, even though things are fairly stablised I know she can pull the plug anytime, so can I but... as for plenty of good women out there, they are all taken it seems. Or single mums, and I can't get over raising someone else's kid, I just can't, I'm shallow like that, nor can I expect someone to. Hence I feel like I'm fked if we ever divorce.

The opportunity I had for intimacy (which I rejected) gave me confidence that it's not going to be too difficult to pick up if I ever was to divorce. But considering when I told this woman that I've made a mistake and was not interested in anything except for my wife and when she said "it doesn't have to be serious" made me wonder if that's all I'm going to get if I move on.

My wife stuck with me for 4 years of marriage, total 7 years, no one has ever done that. Guess it's "first wife syndrome"? lol
Hell ok back to work...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> Turnera
> 
> Interesting... is it really that wrong to share feelings? I dunno


IDK - is it working for you?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I dunno, I haven't seen her since last night lol

Perhaps she IS just evaluating things with her reaction, it wasn't something she expected after all. Maybe? I dunno I think I'll have to wait to see.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

RandomDude said:


> @Turnera
> Actually this got me thinking...
> Perhaps this is codependency at work here? Like, I'm still attached, and I shouldn't be right? Should be able to let go, yet I didn't last night when I confessed my feelings. I just felt like she needed to know.


Exactly. And what did you hope to achieve by 'letting her know?'

Feeling like she 'needs to know' is a control issue - YOU trying to control. Won't work. Goes right in hand with your codependency. Confessing your feelings is ANOTHER control issue. Think about it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Perhaps, it has crossed my mind.

I guess I just wanted to set the record straight and let her know where she stands before she makes a decision thinking that I'm only doing this out of pity and not love for her. I just didn't want her to carry on the wrong impression I guess. I also felt bad that she's been saying ILUs and I just been quiet about it since D-day.

I just didn't want to regret not telling her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's still all about control. YOUR control.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

So I should have just kept it to myself? But isn't that the opposite of what we need in terms of transparency?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not when your spouse DOES NOT WANT YOU.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

:scratchhead:

Erm, she has given me no indication that she doesn't want me. It's the opposite in fact.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Let me restate. ...when your spouse wants you the way SHE wants you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, she may be a nymphomaniac, but she needs love too! Heh. It's not like I'm telling her that everything is good now which it ain't, not to mention she's not interested in being hurt anymore either.

Besides she has been good, she has prioritised our daughter over anything else. That speaks volumes in regards to integrity (mostly due to the stories I keep hearing of bitter selfish ex-wives and STBXWs and personal experience from my own mother), how can my heart remain hardened towards her?

Funny though, she sent me a few messages this morning asking me why I didn't text her last night. Erm wah?... like I was going to after 2 nights ago lol (no I didn't say that ). I just told her I wanted to give her some space to think things through. She wants to meet up before she hands over my daughter for the weekend though, hope our next meetup would be less awkward.

Besides, I'm getting freakin horny >.<


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