# Daughter fallen in love with a muslim



## peacem

My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.

However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.

I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:. 

Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..

Thank you x


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## arbitrator

peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x


*Convert the young man to Christianity!

Hopefully, he'll come to see the light!*


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## manwithnoname

As an atheist, I dislike religion in general, but really despise Islam. 

You don't know if he is just "playing" the part of not being devout.

If he is, he will control her. 

Good luck.


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## manwithnoname

arbitrator said:


> *Convert the young man to Christianity!*


This would work, if you can pull it off.


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## arbitrator

manwithnoname said:


> This would work, if you can pull it off.


*He has to do that all on his own! But it's not impossible!*


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## CharlieParker

He drinks, I’m good. Second year at uni, I wouldn’t worry to much about his parents accepting her, just yet. 

You’re UK based, right? His roots are from South Asia or Middle East?


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## peacem

CharlieParker said:


> He drinks, I’m good. Second year at uni, I wouldn’t worry to much about his parents accepting her, just yet.
> 
> You’re UK based, right? Roots from South Asia or Middle East?


Bangladesh

He even eats pork (lol)


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## Evinrude58

peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. *His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and* there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x


But somehow he is gonna be much different from his family, right?
You do not want your daughter marrying this guy.
You know how his culture views women.
It’s her decision, but for you that go along way too h I like it’s all cool..... not wise...
I’d let her know immediately what I thought about it, and do some research on some stories of other western ladies who have chosen to marry a Muslim and see how that went.


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## CharlieParker

peacem said:


> Bangladesh
> 
> He even eats pork (lol)


How well integrated into UK society are Bangladeshis (huge generalization I know)?

Is he a batsman or bowler? J/K.


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## musicftw07

I think you have a healthy attitude. He treats your daughter well and you genuinely like the guy based on his actions. It's his side of the family's reaction to your daughter that rightfully has you concerned.

I'm an atheist but I don't jump on the Muslim hate bandwagon. My GF comes from a very Catholic family but she doesn't follow it anymore. By the logic of some posters our love should mean nothing because of who her family is, which is something she has no control over. (I'm lucky in that her family accepts me without issue or reservation, but the point still stands.)

I would say it's appropriate to have a conversation about whether or not she's prepared to have his family scorn her for not being Muslim. But I would set a positive example by being the opposite of them and accepting the young man based on the merits of HIS actions and not on those of his parents.

I would not advocate attempted conversion to your adopted religion. My feeling is all that would do is push him away from you, which could in turn push your daughter away from you. That is the opposite of what you want. If he converts of his own accord based on the merits of your acceptance and tolerance, then great. But let him be who he is, especially if who he is seems to be good based on your experiences and observations of him.

For example, I treat my girlfriend better than anyone else she has ever been with my her own admission. (FYI, we're both divorced single parents around 40 years old.) If her family tried to convert me all it would do is cause me to not be around them. I have no problem with them choosing to believe what they want, but I do expect that respect to be a two way street. Failure to return that respect which I freely give them would only cause me to distance myself from them and foster a lack of trust on my part. And rightfully so.


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## azimuth

If it were my daughter I'd be worried and proceed with caution. If it gets serious between them I'd want to see how close he really is with his family, if he's willing to disavow their beliefs, and make them treat her with respect or cut them off.

As for him eating pork and not attending mosque

From Wiki: Taqiya
_Yarden Mariuma, sociologist at Columbia University, writes: "Taqiyya is an Islamic juridical term whose shifting meaning relates to when a Muslim is allowed, under Sharia law, to lie. _

_ [Taqiya] is a precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice in the face of persecution_


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## manwithnoname

OP, tread carefully. Regardless of whether he is devout or not, honour killings happen all the time. Fathers, uncles, cousins etc. carry it out on daughters, daughters in law etc.


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## turnera

Well, you can't tell her to dump him. She won't. In your position the only thing you can do is tell her your concerns, your experience/knowledge, talk about them, tell her you trust her but your one wish is that she KEEP IN MIND that there are dangers here. I had a cousin who married a Muslim man; 2nd or 3rd generation American, but family still back home. Once the kids were 4 or 5 and older, he took them on a trip to his homeland. And never returned. She never saw her kids again (unless she found them in the last 10 years; they would be in their 40s). True story.


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## turnera

manwithnoname said:


> OP, tread carefully. Regardless of whether he is devout or not, honour killings happen all the time. Fathers, uncles, cousins etc. carry it out on daughters, daughters in law etc.


That's for sure. Right here in Houston, one's on trial right now.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...illing-detailed-in-Houston-honor-13124886.php


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## luxnoctis

manwithnoname said:


> OP, tread carefully. Regardless of whether he is devout or not, honour killings happen all the time. Fathers, uncles, cousins etc. carry it out on daughters, daughters in law etc.


This is ridiculous. "Honor killings" don't happen all the time and a family murder is a family murder. Murderers live all over the world and are not confined to a religion or a geographic location. You don't have to worry about her being murdered to any extent beyond the amount you would worry if it was not a muslim, bangladeshi family.


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## luxnoctis

turnera said:


> Well, you can't tell her to dump him. She won't. In your position the only thing you can do is tell her your concerns, your experience/knowledge, talk about them, tell her you trust her but your one wish is that she KEEP IN MIND that there are dangers here. I had a cousin who married a Muslim man; 2nd or 3rd generation American, but family still back home. Once the kids were 4 or 5 and older, he took them on a trip to his homeland. And never returned. She never saw her kids again (unless she found them in the last 10 years; they would be in their 40s). True story.


Non-muslim foreign husbands also kidnap their children and take them back to their home country. That's a general concern when marrrying any foreigner with strong roots to their homeland.


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## luxnoctis

peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x


I married a muslim man from the same region. He was devout but is currently an atheist. People very commonly change their beliefs when they are in their college years and when they start a family. Judge him by his actions and by his mental and emotional state. My ex-husband also had a dysfunctional family and lived under verbal and psychological abuse. Before we married, his family was against our relationship. After we married they welcomed me with open arms and I still enjoy a relationship with them post-divorce. That doesn't mean his family will do the same, but sometimes family complain the loudest before we commit to a person and then keep it to themselves afterwards. 

What I'm concerned about is the family dysfunction and abuse. I bonded with my former husband over the dyfunctional families we had in common and the shared experiences we went through. But with marriage, kids and the resulting stress, surprise surprise! we recreated all of the problems we experienced growing up and it destroyed our relationship. 

With his culture being very family-centric, it would be a mistake for your daughter to continue a long-term relationship or get married to him without you and her meeting his family, no matter how they feel about her. If they are truly against it, they will shun him. If they don't shun him, they are just complaining but still love their son and want to be a part of his life, even if it includes your daughter. But also, you should meet the family to assess the dysfunction and see how this young man interacts with his family. My ex-husband truly wanted to be different than his father and hated his father's behavior, but he just wasn't able to be much different. I lived with his father and my ex ended up doing most of the same things as his dad, without being aware of it. He was better than his dad, but not out of the dysfunctional range. 

By the way, muslims believe that muslim men can marry Christians and Jews. If his family doesn't like her, it's more because they are dating (pre-marital sex is assumed) and more because of a cultural issue, not really because your daughter isn't a muslim.


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## cc48kel

I would be cautious. They are known to not treat women very well at all and his family just doesn't seem right.. If my daughter was falling in love with him, not sure I would be so thrilled. I know it's too soon BUT if they ever marry, you'll see a drastic change. Unfortunately, it's very common-- sorry..


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## BluesPower

luxnoctis said:


> This is ridiculous. "Honor killings" don't happen all the time and a family murder is a family murder. Murderers live all over the world and are not confined to a religion or a geographic location. You don't have to worry about her being murdered to any extent beyond the amount you would worry if it was not a muslim, bangladeshi family.


You are completely and totally wrong. They happens all the time in the US. The media for the most part cover it up on the national level. 

The case is Houston, is horrific and EVERYONE in the family and extended family helped to cover it up. 

I have intimate knowledge of the case. The entire family is guilty as sin.


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## luxnoctis

BluesPower said:


> You are completely and totally wrong. They happens all the time in the US. The media for the most part cover it up on the national level.
> 
> The case is Houston, is horrific and EVERYONE in the family and extended family helped to cover it up.
> 
> I have intimate knowledge of the case. The entire family is guilty as sin.


Oh yeah its a big conspiracy. FAKE NEWS!!! 

So non-muslims don't murder their families? They absolutely do. It happens all the time all over the world. Honor killings aren't a religious thing, but that is what a few people want to perpetuate and hurry to label murders as honor killings whenever the family or murderer is muslim.

But you know, its the evil mainstream media covering up all them honor killings. We live under a giant conspiracy! :surprise:


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## sokillme

peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x


At the end of the day it's her life. Hopefully you were allowed to make your own choices once you were an adult even if they were bad ones right? You must do the same for her. There comes a point that you must trust in the effort and teaching you gave her and let go. Now is were you see if it worked or now. This is her life, that's the point she must make her way in it. If you want to have a good relationship you must give her that and support her as you can under those conditions. 

So worry because, yes it is worrying, extended family and culture is important to the success of a marriage, but that is about all you can and should do. You can respectfully let her know your concerns and ask her to think long and hard about them, but if you want a relationship with your daughter (and a good one at that) you MUST let her make her own choices.

By the way, it's been my experience that the whole star crossed lovers thing is a part of youth, and once maturity settles in people tend to gravitate to what they know. So I don't think they will make it. He will want to go back to his more conservative roots and she won't like that and eventually balk. Part of this is the whole exotic nature that they both are experiencing with each other. That goes away once you get used to it. Then it just becomes someone who thinks very differently then you do.

I would say as much to her in a way that is not as harsh and seemingly insulting to someone who is not mature enough to realize this is how life works. "I know you are having fun but have you thought about this?" "I worry about this, have you thought about that, it could happen and were would you be?" Not emotional though, just talking and concerned. I would strongly encourage her to go slow. Talk to her about, if they have kids. If he gets older and wants to raise those kids in his religion and culture. If that causes him to become more like his parents which is a very common part of human nature. There is a reason why there is common joke about becoming like your parents, because most people as they age do that. They want to raise their kids the way they were the way that feels the most natural to them. His parents don't accept her. (By the way probably for the same reasons I outline here, which is wise.) 

Also if he wants her to convert and she doesn't want to. How his family members will fell about her and her child if she doesn't. How will he feel about his child. Basically remind and make her think about the consequences more then just he is fun to be with now. They feel the early stages of infatuation that is typical but that goes away. That is why playing the long game may work for you. Talk to her about getting her career going before she gets married. Establishing herself. How marriages made at later ages have much better chances to survive. I think it's like 27. Both good advice but also works in your favor. 

Ask her if she is thinking about converting and how that will effect her life, but you have to have an idea what you are talking about. Not just using something someone wrote on the internet. It can't be bias advice because you will lose credibility. Do it from a place of concern and love, not from fear, even if you are very scared. Try not to project that. Make sure it's not personal with him, try not to be judgmental about his religion because again she will tune you out. Just that they are very different in their experience and that is hard, how marriage and kids are hard enough without such a big cultural difference. Your tone and motive is going to be very important to your credibility and how much she listens. 

Again I doubt it will last. But throwing some cold water in a nice way is your best bet. Finally it could work out. Stranger things have happened. There are plenty of decent Muslims. My wife's great-grandparents wouldn't have liked me because I am not catholic or Italian. If we were of that generation we would have never gotten married. How silly that is.


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## uhtred

My future wife's parents were not happy with my dating her because I was New York Jew, and everyone knows what they are like.



Not all Muslims, in fact only a tiny percentage of Muslims are in ISIS, or the Taliban, or enslave women or whatever. Same way that very few Christians are in the WBC, or are in cults that abuse children or whatever. The great majority of Muslims are just normal people. 

Any couple needs to discuss their beliefs and what is and isn't compatible. This is no different. 






peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x


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## Fazz

manwithnoname said:


> OP, tread carefully. Regardless of whether he is devout or not, honour killings happen all the time. Fathers, uncles, cousins etc. carry it out on daughters, daughters in law etc.


I just cracked up reading this.

1. Determine the occurrence rate of honor killings in your city, 
2. Determine the occurrence rate of murder due to domestic violence in your city
3. Then compare the two figures


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## manwithnoname

Fazz said:


> I just cracked up reading this.
> 
> 1. Determine the occurrence rate of honor killings in your city,
> 2. Determine the occurrence rate of murder due to domestic violence in your city
> 3. Then compare the two figures


Crack up all you want.

I'd rather compare how many domestic violence murders have been carried out by an extended family member to how many honour killings were carried out by extended family member.


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## NextTimeAround

luxnoctis said:


> Oh yeah its a big conspiracy. FAKE NEWS!!!
> 
> So non-muslims don't murder their families? They absolutely do. It happens all the time all over the world. Honor killings aren't a religious thing, but that is what a few people want to perpetuate and hurry to label murders as honor killings whenever the family or murderer is muslim.
> 
> But you know, its the evil mainstream media covering up all them honor killings. We live under a giant conspiracy! :surprise:


I read about honor killings fairly regularly in the British media. A few years I was writing an article for a local newsletter about local charities in South London. One Muslim guy was telling me about how they try to support the teenagers who run away because their parents disapprove of their friends or whom they are dating. I guess that's the first step.

I went out with a Pakistani once, just once (boy, was he hot looking). I told him that I was 50 and a divorcee. He then asked me is "when did you lose your virginity?" Do non Muslim men ask that question.

I am a big believer that you marry into the family. an Indian friend of mine told me that he would only marry an Indian woman since his parents worried about how "white" women don't feel a strong responsibility to support their parents and parents in law. A couple of years ago, The Economist ran a lengthy article summarising a study about Indian MILs treat their DILs. It was more than anecdotal. 

OP, these days for Uni students, the road to marriage is fairly long and with various changes. I would quietly observe this relationship so that she will feel comfortable sharing her experiences with you. 

Support her efforts in getting a career so that she can support herself since the one way any man (of any ethnicity) attempts to control a woman is by making it difficult for her to earn a living.

Also encourage her to maintain friendships with other women so that she always has other options.

Also be open with her about birth control so that she doesn't get pregnant and choose to keep or be forced to keep the child and be tied to someone unsuitable for a long time.


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## NextTimeAround

Also I would ensure that your family habits and traditions continue to be observed. If she's been dating this long and exlusively enough, you should encourage your daughter to introduce him to you. 

try to make him feel welcome so that he lets his guard around you.


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## Fazz

manwithnoname said:


> Fazz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just cracked up reading this.
> 
> 1. Determine the occurrence rate of honor killings in your city,
> 2. Determine the occurrence rate of murder due to domestic violence in your city
> 3. Then compare the two figures
> 
> 
> 
> Crack up all you want.
> 
> I'd rather compare how many domestic violence murders have been carried out by an extended family member to how many honour killings were carried out by extended family member.
Click to expand...

That would work too, I’m sure either way you calculate it you’ll come to the conclusion that your assumptions are based on prejudice and not facts.


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## Fazz

musicftw07 said:


> I think you have a healthy attitude. He treats your daughter well and you genuinely like the guy based on his actions. It's his side of the family's reaction to your daughter that rightfully has you concerned.
> 
> I'm an atheist but I don't jump on the Muslim hate bandwagon. My GF comes from a very Catholic family but she doesn't follow it anymore. By the logic of some posters our love should mean nothing because of who her family is, which is something she has no control over. (I'm lucky in that her family accepts me without issue or reservation, but the point still stands.)
> 
> I would say it's appropriate to have a conversation about whether or not she's prepared to have his family scorn her for not being Muslim. But I would set a positive example by being the opposite of them and accepting the young man based on the merits of HIS actions and not on those of his parents.
> 
> I would not advocate attempted conversion to your adopted religion. My feeling is all that would do is push him away from you, which could in turn push your daughter away from you. That is the opposite of what you want. If he converts of his own accord based on the merits of your acceptance and tolerance, then great. But let him be who he is, especially if who he is seems to be good based on your experiences and observations of him.
> 
> For example, I treat my girlfriend better than anyone else she has ever been with my her own admission. (FYI, we're both divorced single parents around 40 years old.) If her family tried to convert me all it would do is cause me to not be around them. I have no problem with them choosing to believe what they want, but I do expect that respect to be a two way street. Failure to return that respect which I freely give them would only cause me to distance myself from them and foster a lack of trust on my part. And rightfully so.


Very sensible advice.


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## manwithnoname

Fazz said:


> That would work too, I’m sure either way you calculate it you’ll come to the conclusion that your assumptions are based on prejudice and not facts.


I'm making no assumptions. It happens. Often.


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## kag123

How do YOU feel about it? 

My first reaction is... They are in uni, and presumably not talking about marriage or settling down at this stage. Be happy that she is happy. She will discover on her own through time the challenges that they may face as a result of their different backgrounds... or the relationship will run it's course and come to its natural end before it gets to that point. At some point you have to let them be young adults and forge their own path. 



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## aine

I would proceed with caution. He may well be rebellious noe, drink, eat pork etc, but when he gets older becoming a family man he may well become devout and expect your daughter to follow suit. This happens often. Muslims are notorious for not assimilating in UK, you see this in London, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, etc. In fact they are often stricter than in their original countries. I would be concerned.


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## CharlieParker

uhtred said:


> My future wife's parents were not happy with my dating her because I was New York Jew, and everyone knows what they are like.


Yes we do, real Menschen. 

On topic, let’s talk if they are still together at the end of next semester.


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## BioFury

luxnoctis said:


> You don't have to worry about her being murdered to any extent beyond the amount you would worry if it was not a muslim, bangladeshi family.


That's not true at all. Crime statistics verify beyond a shadow of a doubt that minorities are responsible for a majority of violent crime.


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## Cynthia

My concern would be whether he is Muslim or not. If he says he is, take him at his word and assume he is going to follow the tenets of Islam, no matter what he is doing now. If he says he is not Islamic, he should be willing to renounce Islam. If he isn't willing to renounce Islam, I would counsel her to end the relationship unless she is willing to convert to Islam. If she wants to convert, she should read the Quaran and other books associated with Islam to determine if she believes in it and if that is how she wants to live her life before making such a huge decision.

If you are strongly against your daughter becoming Islamic, now is the time to talk to her before she reaches a point of no return in her commitment to this man.

What aine said is why I would expect him to become more devout if he is currently identifying as Muslim.


aine said:


> I would proceed with caution. He may well be rebellious noe, drink, eat pork etc, but when he gets older becoming a family man he may well become devout and expect your daughter to follow suit. This happens often. Muslims are notorious for not assimilating in UK, you see this in London, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, etc. In fact they are often stricter than in their original countries. I would be concerned.


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## peacem

He describes himself as an athiest Muslim (in the same way I have a family member who describes herself as Catholic, but hasn't stepped foot inside a church since she was a small child). He has been to a Christian church more times than my daughter has, he even went to Christian camp for his holiday when he was a teenager. He has purple hair, wears vintage clothes and studies 'peace' studies (not joking). He is also is a huge fan of the royal family, which initially put me off him, but I was able to see beyond that. 

Pretty sure she would never convert to Islam because she is very much against organized religion, in particular Islam (that is not to say she hasn't had many muslim friends who she has always had a lot of respect for). 

I think @CharlieParker is right and I should not think about it too much until they finish uni.


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## Diana7

I would be very concerned. Many young muslim men seem weak in their faith till they get married and have children. Suddenly they change and often have pressure for their families to be more strict.


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## uhtred

First, there are rather a large number of different "minorities". Second, for the statistics to be useful, you need to correct for the situation. Do minority *college students* commit more crimes than majority college students - since that is the important demographic here. 




BioFury said:


> That's not true at all. Crime statistics verify beyond a shadow of a doubt that minorities are responsible for a majority of violent crime.


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## uhtred

It was on topic. When and where I was growing up, Jews were a disliked minority. Bias is bias , whether its anti-Semitic, anti-black, or anti-Islamic. 



CharlieParker said:


> Yes we do, real Menschen.
> 
> On topic, let’s talk if they are still together at the end of next semester.


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## BioFury

uhtred said:


> First, there are rather a large number of different "minorities". Second, for the statistics to be useful, you need to correct for the situation. Do minority *college students* commit more crimes than majority college students - since that is the important demographic here.


True. Blacks, and Latin Americans commit most of it. But that is merely due to their larger population presence. Muslims are plenty violent. Just look at Europe.

But if memory serves, the vast majority of violent crime is committed by individuals 26 years old and younger. So they would be college age, but most would not likely be attending.


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## frusdil

If my daughter were to start dating a Muslim, I would be very concerned for her.

However, I would NOT nudge her to dump him, nor infer that she should do so. That would likely push her straight toward him. I would make him welcome, part of our family and get to know him. I'd also be watching carefully.

If they did end up marrying, and having children I would then push upon her the reality that she must never, ever, under any circumstances let her children go home to "visit" his homeland. No way in hades.

If she converted, I would support her, if she rejected the idea of conversion I would support that too. I can either be part of the problem, or an unconditional support for my daughter. I choose the latter.

(Plus I have a nightmare mother in law, I ain't gonna be like her  )


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## manwithnoname

uhtred said:


> It was on topic. When and where I was growing up, Jews were a disliked minority. Bias is bias , whether its anti-Semitic, anti-black, or anti-Islamic.


How about anti-white?

I see more of that than anything else, even from white people, who for some reason are taking political correctness to another level.


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## NextTimeAround

BioFury said:


> True. *Blacks, and Latin Americans commit most of it.* But that is merely due to their larger population presence. Muslims are plenty violent. Just look at Europe.
> 
> But if memory serves, the vast majority of violent crime is committed by individuals 26 years old and younger. So they would be college age, but most would not likely be attending.


Where did this come from. It might be that the police don't pursue white people the way they pursue people of color.


----------



## luxnoctis

manwithnoname said:


> How about anti-white?
> 
> I see more of that than anything else, even from white people, who for some reason are taking political correctness to another level.


Please move this to a new thread or PM.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I would invite him over. Set up one of those nights where you drink and do a painting. They can be really fun. Then paint the prophet Muhammad. See how he reacts. Keep some pepper spray in your pocket just in case.


----------



## peacem

frusdil said:


> (Plus I have a nightmare mother in law, I ain't gonna be like her  )


Now this is the heart of the matter. Having a MIL that is pretty much radicalized into cultish Christianity and rejects any family member who doesn't fit into her ideology, having developed anxiety and pretty much screwed up my marriage - the last thing I want is that for my own daughter. 

Its not about him - so far I really like him. Its about HIS family and MY family and ...well beyond caring about what my in-laws think :|


----------



## BioFury

NextTimeAround said:


> Where did this come from. It might be that the police don't pursue white people the way they pursue people of color.


Possible, but proven to be false in the studies I've seen. Blacks and Hispanics just engage in more crime. Which would also explain why they get shot by the police more often than others.


----------



## Jharp

peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x




They will force her to convert to Islam. No bones about it. If they're super hardcore about it they may demand YOU and the rest of your family convert as well. I've seen this happen and it ended with the girl not marrying the guy as her family threatened to disown her if she did. And they were fairly liberal minded but they got tired of the **** his family put her and them through.

Now if she's willing to convert, then good for her. If not then he needs to respect her boundaries on this. If this is really important to them then prepare yourself for heartache and harassment.


----------



## peacem

Jharp said:


> They will force her to convert to Islam. No bones about it. If they're super hardcore about it they may demand YOU and the rest of your family convert as well. I've seen this happen and it ended with the girl not marrying the guy as her family threatened to disown her if she did. And they were fairly liberal minded but they got tired of the **** his family put her and them through.
> 
> Now if she's willing to convert, then good for her. If not then he needs to respect her boundaries on this. If this is really important to them then prepare yourself for heartache and harassment.


My inlaws couldn't convert me to Church of England (nice) Christianity, the idea of us becoming Islamic is hilarious...not going to happen. My daughter is very anti-religion and has told him so. We have laws against harrassment.


----------



## Jharp

peacem said:


> My inlaws couldn't convert me to Church of England (nice) Christianity, the idea of us becoming Islamic is hilarious...not going to happen. My daughter is very anti-religion and has told him so. We have laws against harrassment.


Good for you and for her. But, while there are laws on the books, how stringent are they enforced? Muslims in the US and in Europe get away with a lot of crap Christians and Atheists wouldn't. All in a show of not being racists. The thing with the Muslim Rape gangs in Britain right now being a case in point. Or that Muslim nutjob running a school shooter training camp in Nevada. Just because a law is on the books doesn't means it'll be enforced.


Now, not saying this is the case here, obviously. For all I know this guy could be the most amazing man ever to your daughter. If so, then good on them. My questions are, do they respect her boundaries? do they respect your Family's boundaries? If yes, then disregard and carry on. If no...you're in for some trouble.


----------



## uhtred

Where does your information come from? If you correct for socio-economic status, is there a difference in crime rate?

Not wanting to be mean, but do you know any Muslims personally or have you been to majority Islamic countries (not as part of a military operation that is)? I think that there is a lot of fear and misinformation out there. 




BioFury said:


> True. Blacks, and Latin Americans commit most of it. But that is merely due to their larger population presence. Muslims are plenty violent. Just look at Europe.
> 
> But if memory serves, the vast majority of violent crime is committed by individuals 26 years old and younger. So they would be college age, but most would not likely be attending.


----------



## uhtred

Yup there is plenty anti-white bias. I don't appreciate being judged by the color of my skin or for things that people who look like me did in the past. 



manwithnoname said:


> How about anti-white?
> 
> I see more of that than anything else, even from white people, who for some reason are taking political correctness to another level.


----------



## uhtred

Why offend a house guest? I don't serve my Christian friends from Church of Satan mugs. I don't leave Nazi artifacts out for my Jewish friends, etc.

If his religion finds paintings of Muhammed to be offensive, then that's fine, its not really a life impacting limitation. I'd be much more concerned about his views on the roles of men and women - same as I would for anyone who wanted to date my hypothetical daughter. 



TheDudeLebowski said:


> I would invite him over. Set up one of those nights where you drink and do a painting. They can be really fun. Then paint the prophet Muhammad. See how he reacts. Keep some pepper spray in your pocket just in case.


----------



## peacem

uhtred said:


> My future wife's parents were not happy with my dating her because I was New York Jew, and everyone knows what they are like.
> 
> 
> 
> Not all Muslims, in fact only a tiny percentage of Muslims are in ISIS, or the Taliban, or enslave women or whatever. Same way that very few Christians are in the WBC, or are in cults that abuse children or whatever. The great majority of Muslims are just normal people.
> 
> Any couple needs to discuss their beliefs and what is and isn't compatible. This is no different.


Haha. I have no idea what New York Jews are like, but you reminded me of the 90's when a friend moved to London only to complain of the number of Jews 'swarming' the city. Now that same person complains of the Muslims and talks about his Jewish friends. The problem we have is the few fanatical are feeding the imaginations of those who really distrust 'others'. 

I wish someone would come up with a solution rather than scapegoating the minority.


----------



## BioFury

uhtred said:


> Where does your information come from? If you correct for socio-economic status, is there a difference in crime rate?
> 
> Not wanting to be mean, but do you know any Muslims personally or have you been to majority Islamic countries (not as part of a military operation that is)? I think that there is a lot of fear and misinformation out there.


It's information I've researched and collected over the years. But I think Wiki has a page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

Once again, if memory serves, while there is a stronger correlation between poverty and crime, when compared to race and crime, black neighborhoods are still more violent than white neighborhoods, when household income is taken into account.

No, and I never will, should I have any say in the matter. Have you seen the crime rates in Europe? One country, I forget with one, experienced a *1300%* increase in rape, that was almost exclusively due to muslim immigrants. And get this, that 1300% increase, was only counting the 1st gen, cause the 2nd gen weren't statistically considered immigrants.


----------



## CharlieParker

BioFury said:


> It's information I've researched and collected over the years. But I think Wiki has a page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States


What, “Race and crime in the United States”, how did race enter the discussion, I thought we were on religion? Sorry I may have missed it.


----------



## john117

People, leave the social sciences to those trained in them .

There's a load of difference between a mid 20s Syrian migrant fresh out of Aleppo, a late 20s economic migrant from Tunisia pretending to be a war refugee, and a 45 year old Jordanian physician. If you live in Germany you'll run into the first two, if you live in Louisville, the third.

Having said this, I have way too many examples of perfectly adjusted immigrants (Muslim and otherwise) in their 20s to 40s getting the itch as they get older, to turn conservative and align with the away team rather than the home team.


----------



## CharlieParker

peacem said:


> My inlaws couldn't convert me to Church of England


We got married by the Church of England, renewed our vows 25 years later in same room (ok, it was a magnificent, really old, 11th century room), I’m good with them. 

In any case neither of us is religious, but they still took our US dollar denominated cheque, err, donation.


----------



## Dawghoused

All religions and casts are made by humans on the earth. If your daughter like him and you also think that he is perfect for her then anyone should not have any problem with their relationship. You should convince your parents of their marriage and also ask that guy to convince his parents also.


----------



## uhtred

The US does imprison a lot of ethnic minorities who make up a large fraction of the worlds largest prison population. Since the great majority have not had jury trials, and nearly half have not had any trial at all, its not easy to estimate whether or not that represents the crime rate. 

Where did you get the 1300% increase in rape due to Muslims?

I've been in a number of Muslim majority countries and regions, (Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt, Jordan, Morrocco, Xinjiang Provence of China, and some others I've probably forgotten. From what I can tell, the people there are just ordinary people. My Muslim co-workers are just people. Haven't really seen any pattern to speak of. 




BioFury said:


> It's information I've researched and collected over the years. But I think Wiki has a page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States
> 
> Once again, if memory serves, while there is a stronger correlation between poverty and crime, when compared to race and crime, black neighborhoods are still more violent than white neighborhoods, when household income is taken into account.
> 
> No, and I never will, should I have any say in the matter. Have you seen the crime rates in Europe? One country, I forget with one, experienced a *1300%* increase in rape, that was almost exclusively due to muslim immigrants. And get this, that 1300% increase, was only counting the 1st gen, cause the 2nd gen weren't statistically considered immigrants.


----------



## BioFury

uhtred said:


> The US does imprison a lot of ethnic minorities who make up a large fraction of the worlds largest prison population. Since the great majority have not had jury trials, and nearly half have not had any trial at all, its not easy to estimate whether or not that represents the crime rate.
> 
> Where did you get the 1300% increase in rape due to Muslims?
> 
> I've been in a number of Muslim majority countries and regions, (Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt, Jordan, Morrocco, Xinjiang Provence of China, and some others I've probably forgotten. From what I can tell, the people there are just ordinary people. My Muslim co-workers are just people. Haven't really seen any pattern to speak of.


I'm not sure what you're referencing about no trial at all, unless you're referring to no-contest guilty pleas.

I've been trying to find the article. It was pre-Trump, and apparently he made some comments about sex crimes in Europe, which has flooded the search results.

They may be. I've just seen what has happened when they've migrated to Europe and other 1st world countries. Islamic nations typically have very strict, and harsh punishments for crimes, while western countries do not. So one could speculate that they only behave like ordinary people because they're constantly under the threat of guillotine.


----------



## MEM2020

Peace,

Does your daughter have a good job? Is she responsible with money?





peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x


----------



## manfromlamancha

Be very, very careful here! I speak with first hand experience of this.

No matter how westernised and polite he may be, this will change further down the line - the sort of things that kick off the change include:

the birth of a child (especially a son in this culture);
the death of a parent (extreme guilt followed by a complete swing towards traditional Islam);
a major argument later in marriage (especially if jealousy is involved);
when the husband experiences perceived racism;
a new found friend who reminds him of his roots.


Also a number of these men know that they will never settle for less and in the back of their minds they know that once they have the love of the woman, further down the line she will do anything for him including converting to his faith and following his religious customs.

She needs to become a strong, independent woman whatever she decides to do and needs to keep her eyes wide open (this applies to whoever she ends up with) but in this case she needs to look a little deeper, be a little more alert and try and look further down the line.

Finally she will receive a lot of trouble, pressure to convert, preaching, angst, will made to feel bad about herself etc from his family and "other" friends.

I will tell you this though - it will be nigh on to impossible to convince her and you will be seen to be a racist/bigot. You need to handle this carefully - your mission is to alert her to the possibility of what I said being true and have her eyes open (even if she does not agree with you now). If in the rare case, this man happens to be the exception and not the rule, then great!

And do not get fooled by the eating pork, drinking alcohol, celebrating Christmas malarchy! I have seen and heard this all before.


----------



## BioFury

uhtred said:


> I've been in a number of Muslim majority countries and regions, (Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt, Jordan, Morrocco, Xinjiang Provence of China, and some others I've probably forgotten. From what I can tell, the people there are just ordinary people. My Muslim co-workers are just people. Haven't really seen any pattern to speak of.


----------



## Randy Lafever

Man, BioFury must be a real easy target for pranks. Just don a fake beard and wrap a towel around your head and scare him silly.

But I mean, he has a point. The most famous American Muslim of all time, Muhammad Ali, was filmed on numerous occasions committing acts of senseless violence against people of all races. Over and over he would strike them until they were unable to defend themselves. Then he would gloat about his horrific deed to the onlookers. 

Sends a chill down the spine just thinking that some want to let his kind into our peace-loving and enlightened country.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Randy Lafever said:


> Man, BioFury must be a real easy target for pranks. Just don a fake beard and wrap a towel around your head and scare him silly.
> 
> But I mean, he has a point. The most famous American Muslim of all time, Muhammad Ali, was filmed on numerous occasions committing acts of senseless violence against people of all races. Over and over he would strike them until they were unable to defend themselves. Then he would gloat about his horrific deed to the onlookers.
> 
> Sends a chill down the spine just thinking that some want to let his kind into our peace-loving and enlightened country.


Err, yeah, that is the nature of the sport called boxing. His opponent goes into the rign knowing that that's what he is going to do.


----------



## BluesPower

peacem said:


> My inlaws couldn't convert me to Church of England (nice) Christianity, the idea of us becoming Islamic is hilarious...not going to happen. My daughter is very anti-religion and has told him so. We have laws against harrassment.


Yeah, you also have laws against the Muslim rape gangs but that does not stop it from happening. And if you are in England, then your media is prohibited from reporting it, same in France.


----------



## peacem

MEM2020 said:


> Peace,
> 
> Does your daughter have a good job? Is she responsible with money?


She's a student and works in a bar, does quite a lot of hours but for low pay. She is very good with money and I have given her the talk about not lending or giving her money away to anyone. Her boyfriend is very hard working, currently holding down 3 jobs over the summer.


----------



## NextTimeAround

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, you also have laws against the Muslim rape gangs but that does not stop it from happening. And if you are in England, then your media is prohibited from reporting it, same in France.



Here is a quote:


> Kristina Schröder, a former family minister from the CDU, said it was high time for Germany to deal with the cultural differences. “For a long time it was taboo, but we must grapple with masculinity norms that legitimise violence in Muslim culture,” she tweeted.


From the following article:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne


----------



## Taxman

First of all, telling her to dump him is like firing the starter pistol. As parents, we have to endure our kids making mistakes that we made. There is no way around a lot of this crap, they have to find out for themselves. The good thing is that they are in second year, and given what goes on these days, with kids waiting a really long time to marry (we got hitched at 24, my girl and her beau are 35 and 36, meanwhile my son is 26, footloose and fancy free with a wow of a bachelor pad). Uni is a time where we sample all parts of life. I had a few girlfriends before my wife, and my mother freaked at a few of them: I was dating a jamaican girl, I'm (or rather was) a fat, white, jewish guy, and she was black, curvy and definitely not jewish. My mom freaked when she discovered this relationship, but to her credit, she held her tongue. My next relationship blew her out of the water: The girl was jewish, too bad she was ten years older than me, and it was really just sex. Try getting your mom, who was of the generation that would not think of having relations with anyone before marriage, to understand a relationship like that. So, I put my parents through some pretty heavy stuff (my older brother had a few winners that he brought home, he liked them sporty, so he dated a female jockey-all my Dad was interested in is if she could pick winners, and he'd take the next workday at the track)


----------



## uhtred

A substantial fraction of the prison population is being held before trial. 

The Muslims I know in this country behave like people of other faiths. I haven't seen any consistent difference (one way or the other). For most of them, religion is the the central defining part of their lives, any more than it is for most christians. 



BioFury said:


> I'm not sure what you're referencing about no trial at all, unless you're referring to no-contest guilty pleas.
> 
> I've been trying to find the article. It was pre-Trump, and apparently he made some comments about sex crimes in Europe, which has flooded the search results.
> 
> They may be. I've just seen what has happened when they've migrated to Europe and other 1st world countries. Islamic nations typically have very strict, and harsh punishments for crimes, while western countries do not. So one could speculate that they only behave like ordinary people because they're constantly under the threat of guillotine.


----------



## Fredrick

This is called "Zihad" You should back your daughter asap. And should tell about the activity of Muslim.


----------



## Vinnydee

My ex fiancé came from a very conservative Jewish family. My family had no problem with that, but her did. Her family refused to pay for her college if she married me and would not pay for the wedding. Yet she accepted my proposal and the plan was for me to go into the Army and when and if I got back from Vietnam we would live on base and then after my discharge, go to the same college taking part time jobs. 

My fiancé's mother said I was not good enough for her daughter. I was in a school for gifted students and have an IQ in the genius range so I did not know where she was coming from other than I was not Jewish. Life is funny. My fiancé cheated on me when I was in combat keeping it together thinking of her when I got back home. I was crushed and her parents were happy. However their precious daughter became a drug addict, is bipolar and talks to angels. Oh, she is married to a woman. That must have killed her mother. Meanwhile I had a successful and profitable career and would have given her daughter a very good life as I did for my wife of 46 years. 

Before you judge me, my wife is bisexual and I was OK with her steady girlfriend living with us, so I am not homophobic. My ex fiancé's parents were though. It did affect me since my old fashioned family would not have accepted us, so we moved far away from all family and ended up in a poly triad with a woman we both loved for most of our marriage. Many called us immoral but we are still married and they are all divorced, with most due go cheating. Go figure. We were polyfidelotous and yet people assumed we were having sex with different people all the time. Lots of prejudice in our day and time for both the poly and bisexual things.

The only thing I can advise is that they discuss how the children will be raised and what religion. That is usually were conflicts occur. They just need to know what is expected of each other so no surprises later on.


----------



## aine

peacem said:


> My inlaws couldn't convert me to Church of England (nice) Christianity, the idea of us becoming Islamic is hilarious...not going to happen. My daughter is very anti-religion and has told him so. We have laws against harrassment.


Peacem, that might well be but it is usually an insidious process. Marriage is difficult enough with people of same culture and religion, this just adds to the hurdles that will be met.
What happens if the guy in later years gets tired of your daughter and decides to go for wife number 2, 3 and 4. This is entirely plausible and allowed by the religion. I know of couples so in love, he would never think of marrying a second or third wife but when the pressure of child rearing, work etc arise, things change.

If his parents are hardcore then they will always interfere and insist on conversion. I live in a muslim nation which is considered relatively liberal but when it comes to these matters, things become serious very quickly, do not discount the dangers.


----------



## manfromlamancha

peacem said:


> My inlaws couldn't convert me to Church of England (nice) Christianity, the idea of us becoming Islamic is hilarious...not going to happen. My daughter is very anti-religion and has told him so. We have laws against harrassment.


I understand that - trying to get you to convert to CoE is a totally different kettle of fish! Its all very civilised and we can agree to disagree etc sort of thing.

However, what we are talking about here is not a civilised approach to conversion. First of all you "us" becoming Islamic. This will have nothing to do with you. It will be just your daughter. And here is how it could go down:

The first 10 years will be great. She will fall deeper in love with him. And then the pressure will start - in a very subtle way at first. Things like, "well at least we respect the elders in our faith" and "that really is shameless behaviour that our girls would never indulge in" and before you know it, it becomes a constant messing with her mind till she ends up defending him and his views from others. That is the first step. 

Then comes "well this is my son and I have always wanted him to be named <whatever> and brought up in my faith (if that is alright with you)". Then comes "please stop doing <whatever> - I really don't want our children thinking that it is OK to behave like that." Then there might be "I really would like to do something for my parents or my side of the family and it doesn't really mean that much to you anyway." 

And all through this, your daughter will think that this is very normal acceptable parenting, husbandry whatever. Until you finally realise that all his concerns, parenting decisions etc are actually based on his faith.

And then the final step might be "you can leave if you want to but the kids are not going anywhere" or "now that we are in Dubai, you cannot take the kids back and I have complete authority and custody over them".

Believe me, there is much to look out for and be careful about.


----------



## manfromlamancha

peacem said:


> My inlaws couldn't convert me to Church of England (nice) Christianity, the idea of us becoming Islamic is hilarious...not going to happen. My daughter is very anti-religion and has told him so. We have laws against harrassment.


I understand that - trying to get you to convert to CoE is a totally different kettle of fish! Its all very civilised and we can agree to disagree etc sort of thing.

However, what we are talking about here is not a civilised approach to conversion. First of all you said "us" becoming Islamic. This will have nothing to do with you. It will be just your daughter. And here is how it could go down:

The first 10 years will be great. She will fall deeper in love with him. And then the pressure will start - in a very subtle way at first. Things like, "well at least we respect the elders in our faith" and "that really is shameless behaviour that our girls would never indulge in" and before you know it, it becomes a constant messing with her mind till she ends up defending him and his views from others. That is the first step. 

Then comes "well this is my son and I have always wanted him to be named <whatever> and brought up in my faith (if that is alright with you)". Then comes "please stop doing <whatever> - I really don't want our children thinking that it is OK to behave like that." Then there might be "I really would like to do something for my parents or my side of the family and it doesn't really mean that much to you anyway." 

And all through this, your daughter will think that this is very normal acceptable parenting, husbandry whatever. Until you finally realise that all his concerns, parenting decisions etc are actually based on his faith.

And then the final step might be "you can leave if you want to but the kids are not going anywhere" or "now that we are in Dubai, you cannot take the kids back and I have complete authority and custody over them".

Believe me, there is much to look out for and be careful about.


----------



## personofinterest

Let's get honest. Right or wrong, if we stripped away all the PC posturing, nobody on this thread would be jumping up-and-down in celebration if their DAUGHTER was seriously dating someone of the Muslim faith. I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong, I'm just willing to be honest and say I wouldn't be thrilled. And I really don't care what someone else pretends to think about that, because I'm 99% sure that way down deep inside they would feel the same way.


----------



## lovelygirl

peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are *very conservative muslims.* Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit,* his family will never accept her. * A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that *he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her* :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. *His own family are rather dysfunctional* with *domestic abuse and terrible poverty *and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x


MAJOR red flags! :|
I'd say, the family and origin are VERY important! I'm afraid of what they might do to her. These type of "Muslim" families are very dangerous and they have got nothing to do with religion. To me, they sound like _extremists_, not religious. 
There are many "Muslims" out there who abuse and kill others, in the name of "Islam", which actually, has got nothing to do with killing and abuse. 

As for the guy, he might have a good record but I'd still be very worried! I'd never allow my daughter to date such person because you never know someday he might try to convince her to convert into a "Muslim" and do inappropriate things in the name of "Islam". Believe me! These type of people with such background, HAVE THE POWER to influence others in a *terrible* way!!

I'm not bashing Muslims, (I come from a Muslim family myself but we don't practice Islam) but the _so-called_ "Muslims" are the most dangerous people on Earth!

I knew a friend who used to date a "Muslim" guy. He came from a very poor family with strong Islamic roots and he was (later - found out) a regular drug-user. 6 months after moving back to the States he was caught trafficking girls. He had 2 jobs at the time and people considered him hard-working, until realising that one of the jobs was related to drug-dealing and prostitution. 

Ironically, HIS family was against my friend (who isn't Muslim) and for this fact they didn't want her in their family. Before finding out the things he used to do, he tried to convince my friend to convert into Muslim so that his family would accept her. She NEARLY accepted (she trusted him - they dated for a year) ...until she realised the huge mistake she was about to make. She wanted to break up but he wouldn't let her go and would force her to stay with him...until she reported him to the police. (Even then, she was afraid to do so, fearing what he might have done to her).

I'd suggest you not be so calm!


----------



## manwithnoname

personofinterest said:


> Let's get honest. Right or wrong, if we stripped away all the PC posturing, nobody on this thread would be jumping up-and-down in celebration if their DAUGHTER was seriously dating someone of the Muslim faith. I'm not saying whether that's right or wrong, I'm just willing to be honest and say I wouldn't be thrilled. And I really don't care what someone else pretends to think about that, because I'm 99% sure that way down deep inside they would feel the same way.


Absolutely.

And how many people actually act and think based on what they believe political correctness would dictate? Probably a huge number these days, (at least it is in Canada).

Some of us have our eyes open.


----------



## brooklynAnn

@peacem, all I can advice is not to voice anything negative about him or his religion. If she wants to know if you like him, just say yes. 

The thing is you dont want to push them together too tightly. And hopeful this will pass.

My niece on H's side, got married out of the blues in Dec. She met him less than 6 months and was ready to give up her family for him. From what I understand he is abusive and controlling. He is suddenly religious, when he used to party and drink like a fish. They had a secret conversion ceremony so that they could be married in his faith, months after their wedding. Noone in her family was invited.

For whatever reason, they tend to find God and religion after being married and become rather strict about their religion.

Hope it all works out and he turns his attention elsewhere.


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## lovelygirl

What I have realised from many of those who come from a _so-called_ and/or unhealthy religious background, especially "Muslim", before being converted into one, they used to lead a VERY dangerous, abusive past life. They either abused with drinking/drugs or sexual harassment. 

They think that becoming a Muslim will erase all they did in the past. :|
Moreover, some of them keep on doing the same things but choose to use the "Muslim" attitude as a facade.


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## As'laDain

@peacem, my suggestion...

Introduce him to anthony demello. You can find videos and audio recordings of him on youtube. See if it resonates with him. 

If it does, its a really good sign...


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## manfromlamancha

Also on a more practical note, your grandchildren are going to have Muslim cousins, aunts, uncles, family friends and there will be a consensus that being non-Muslim is feckless, shameful and not right. There will be in-jokes and popular points-of-view and it will be an uphill struggle for your grandchildren to oppose these points of view when around a large Muslim extended family and their friends. Your granchildren might even feel compelled to fit in early on in life. 

Trust me, I have seen all of this first hand and it is not good!


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## oldshirt

peacem said:


> .
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..


My words of wisdom is that all relationships and marriages etc are hard and require work and are frought with various challenges and hardships, some of which are endemic and cannot be overcome. 

The more elements that you add into that relationship where things are 'different' or dysfunctional just means that there will be more added stress and difficulty added on. Meaning that differences in lifestyle, religion, race, values, mores, beliefs etc etc will all add additional problems and stressors to an already difficult and challenging situation that is difficult and challenging even under perfect conditions and perfect compatibility. It's not that different races or religions are "wrong" in any way, but it adds ads additional levels of stress and difficulty.

In regards to your parents, their concerns are founded and based on other people's prior experiences. There have been disasterous outcomes when nonmuslim, American women have married muslim men and those men have taken the children to muslim nations. 

A nonmuslim woman/mother has virtual no rights when her children touch muslim soil and there is not much that American laws and embassies can do about it. 

The abuse issue is real too but at least if they remain in America the American legal system can offer some protection. If they move to a muslim nation, she is on her own and can be beaten and starved and locked in the house and even set on fire at will with no legal recourse. 


My recommendation would be to consult an attorney that has knowledge in such matters and see if you can establish some kind of grandparental authority to where your grandchildren cannot be taken out of this country for any reason and where your grandparental rights cannot be usurped by any other religious or political entity and where the paternal grandparents cannot infringe upon your grandparental rights due to religious or political reasons.


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## In Absentia

peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> 
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> 
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> 
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> 
> Thank you x



I'm a bit shocked by all the comments. to be honest. The only difficult part might be his family. As far as the boy is concerned, he is 3rd generation, drinks, eats pork, etc... so, he is really not an orthodox muslim and even if he were a muslim... so what? Trust your daughter. She wouldn't go out with him if he were a controlling freak or whatever. We are in 2018!


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## manwithnoname

manfromlamancha said:


> Also on a more practical note, your grandchildren are going to have Muslim cousins, aunts, uncles, family friends and there will be a consensus that being non-Muslim is feckless, shameful and not right. There will be in-jokes and popular points-of-view and it will be an uphill struggle for your grandchildren to oppose these points of view when around a large Muslim extended family and their friends. Your granchildren might even feel compelled to fit in early on in life.
> 
> Trust me, I have seen all of this first hand and it is not good!


There is a high probability that the children will be assumed to be Muslim and raised as such, especially when the father is Muslim.


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## manwithnoname

In Absentia said:


> I'm a bit shocked by all the comments. to be honest. The only difficult part might be his family. As far as the boy is concerned, he is 3rd generation, drinks, eats pork, etc... so, he is really not an orthodox muslim and even if he were a muslim... so what? Trust your daughter. *She wouldn't go out with him if he were a controlling freak or whatever. We are in 2018![*/QUOTE]
> 
> That's really the point of a lot of the comments, that there is a change in behavior once it is too late.
> 
> We are in 2018, but religion, especially Islam, is not.


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## manfromlamancha

In Absentia said:


> I'm a bit shocked by all the comments. to be honest. The only difficult part might be his family. As far as the boy is concerned, he is 3rd generation, drinks, eats pork, etc... so, he is really not an orthodox muslim and even if he were a muslim... so what? Trust your daughter. She wouldn't go out with him if he were a controlling freak or whatever. We are in 2018!


I have seen this happen first hand - twice!!!! Once in the University Of Southampton and the other in the University Of Sussex - Punjabi Pakistani origin in the first case and Bangladeshi in the second. Both times, the boys were very westernised - the first was into the Arts and a member of the dance team (and even thought he was gay at one stage). He resented his father and the brutal way in which they were brought up. Few years after he graduated and a long story later, he "saw the light" but not until he had a classmate completely infatuated with him. The second was a Maths major and very brainy. Helped a lot of girls out with their coursework etc. Same thing, three years out of uni.

I am only saying this because I had to deal with the fallout. Everyone likes to believe that they have the exception. And I hope that you do. But you have been warned from experience not blind hate or bigotry. And when I say that I have been dealing with generations of this, if I could without blowing my anonymity, I would prove it but I cannot.

And not all Muslims behave in the same way - Pakistani Muslims are different to Bangladeshi Muslims are different to Malaysian Muslims are different to Indian Muslims are different to Iranian Muslims are different to Gulf Arab Muslims are different to Mediterranean Arab Muslims are different to Balkan Muslims are different to Turkish Muslims are different to North African Muslims are different to African Muslims etc etc etc. And I have experience of ALL of them!!!


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## In Absentia

manfromlamancha said:


> I have seen this happen first hand - twice!!!! Once in the University Of Southampton and the other in the University Of Sussex - Punjabi Pakistani origin in the first case and Bangladeshi in the second. Both times, the boys were very westernised - the first was into the Arts and a member of the dance team (and even thought he was gay at one stage). He resented his father and the brutal way in which they were brought up. Few years after he graduated and a long story later, he "saw the light" but not until he had a classmate completely infatuated with him. The second was a Maths major and very brainy. Helped a lot of girls out with their coursework etc. Same thing, three years out of uni.
> 
> I am only saying this because I had to deal with the fallout. Everyone likes to believe that they have the exception. And I hope that you do. But you have been warned from experience not blind hate or bigotry. And when I say that I have been dealing with generations of this, if I could without blowing my anonymity, I would prove it but I cannot.
> 
> And not all Muslims behave in the same way - Pakistani Muslims are different to Bangladeshi Muslims are different to Malaysian Muslims are different to Indian Muslims are different to Iranian Muslims are different to Gulf Arab Muslims are different to Mediterranean Arab Muslims are different to Balkan Muslims are different to Turkish Muslims are different to North African Muslims are different to African Muslims etc etc etc. And I have experience of ALL of them!!!


I believe you, but it's still a gross generalisation... there are millions of muslim people in the UK... I'm sure there are quite a few cases like that, but let's not try to perpetuate the usual story of the nasty muslims trying to conquer the world... remember the crusades... :wink2:


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> I believe you, but it's still a gross generalisation... there are millions of muslim people in the UK... I'm sure there are quite a few cases like that, but let's not try to perpetuate the usual story of the nasty muslims trying to conquer the world... remember the crusades... :wink2:


Surely you have read the countless stories of women who fell for supposedly non religious muslim men, only to find when they married and had children things changed dramatically. It happens all the time.


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## In Absentia

Diana7 said:


> Surely you have read the countless stories of women who fell for supposedly non religious muslim men, only to find when they married and had children things changed dramatically. It happens all the time.


do you know the percentages? It's still a gross generalisation and a stereotype... :wink2:


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## manwithnoname

Diana7 said:


> Surely you have read the countless stories of women who fell for supposedly non religious muslim men, only to find when they married and had children things changed dramatically. It happens all the time.





In Absentia said:


> do you know the percentages? It's still a gross generalisation and a stereotype... :wink2:


Generalizations and stereotypes don't start out of thin air.


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## In Absentia

manwithnoname said:


> Generalizations and stereotypes don't start out of thin air.


Ok, I surrender to your scientific approach...


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## NextTimeAround

In Absentia said:


> do you know the percentages? It's still a gross generalisation and a stereotype... :wink2:


You don't have to eat the whole pot of soup to know that it's salty.

And if it were my family member, I have no desire to sacrifice him / her on the alter of of PC.


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## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> do you know the percentages? It's still a gross generalisation and a stereotype... :wink2:


I disagree, its a massive risk.


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## manwithnoname

In Absentia said:


> Ok, I surrender to your scientific approach...


Ah, I see..... you are one of the UK's many PC thinking people.... who will be surrendering before long.


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## personofinterest

NextTimeAround said:


> You don't have to eat the whole pot of soup to know that it's salty.
> 
> *And if it were my family member, I have no desire to sacrifice him / her on the alter of of PC*.


Neither would anyone else, don't worry. It's easy to _*talk*_ PC.


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## manfromlamancha

In Absentia, I just wanted to advise the OP so that she can have this chat with her daughter as to what could possibly go wrong (and I do not know the percentages but as I said, I am not a spring chicken, and have seen this many, many, many times).

By the way personally I think over time, the Muslim countries out there have had a raw deal getting here so no, this is not about the crusades or anything like that. However, I do know the destruction the religion can bring about to people who have had a raw deal getting here.

If Christianity had not been rescued by the Greeks and Romans, it would have been in the same sorry state as Islam. Luckily, they took it over and changed it significantly to fit with their intended ethics for the newly emerging Europe e.g. did away with no eating pork, polygamy, circumcision etc (all these were part of Christianity originally and would not have been acceptable to countries where the main source of meat was wild boar!). So it ain't about attacking the Muslim countries - just about protecting her daughter's happiness and well being. As somebody said, it hasn't evolved much and was designed for the Arabs of the desert.

Even the other Muslim countries had a tough time with the religion at the outset.

Be careful is all I am saying. Her daughter's boyfriend is going to find himself at odds with his close family and friends soon and this is going to wear the both of them down eventually.


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## personofinterest

I'll be honest, I would have the same concerns if my daughter was dating a man who was raised in the Bill Gothard version of Christianity. Any time a church or religion has an abusive, manipulative, dangerous, or overly legalistic side to it, there's danger of abuse. If my daughter brought home a guy who was King James Bible only didn't believe in birth control, wasn't going to "allow" her to work, and expected her to only wear dresses and never speak in the church.....I'd have serious concerns as well.

So for me, while only an idiot would minimize radical Islam, it isn't JUST about Islam. It's anything "cultlike."


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## uhtred

I wonder how many of the people posting here know Muslims or have spent a lot of time in Muslim majority countries. 

I'm quite surprised at the image of Muslims that many posters seem to have, and wonder where it came from. Sure, there are horrible extremists, but there are many types of dangerous extremists. 

Last time I was in a majority (>95%) Islamic country, I was chatting with my taxi driver. He was very excited that his daughter was going to medical school.


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## Tony Conrad

I worked with a woman who married a muslim. So so charming but as soon as she was married she was put into the kitchen with his mother. He came home with lipstick on his collar and thought she should be proud of him.
She went through hell and never recovered from it unfortuantely.

I counsel to be really sure and check out the culture in depth. Once you are married you could be subject to Islamic rules. Quite often young muslims return to Islamic stuff when they are older. There may be many nice muslims but the religion itself is something that you don't walk into lightly. In a Muslim country my friend would not have been able to leave so easily.


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## NextTimeAround

uhtred said:


> I wonder how many of the people posting here know Muslims or have spent a lot of time in Muslim majority countries.
> 
> I'm quite surprised at the image of Muslims that many posters seem to have, and wonder where it came from. Sure, there are horrible extremists, but there are many types of dangerous extremists.
> 
> Last time I was in a majority (>95%) Islamic country, I was chatting with my taxi driver. He was very excited that his daughter was going to medical school.


You're pretty anecdotal. My opinion is based on what I read and some of what I experience. The UK is having a lot of trouble getting to grips with how integrated they should reasonably expect Muslims within their borders should be.

Taxpayers pay for honor killing crimes to be solved and resolved; state supported schools that are majority or 100% Muslim treat the female like second citizens, forcing them to sit in the back of the class and admonishing them to raise their hands to participate in class. I met a teacher who said that quite often they uncover that Muslim families will claim that their daughters are home schooled when really their daughters are doing housework and babysitting their younger siblings.

I'm glad about your taxi driver experience. Maybe he was telling the truth, maybe not. Maybe he was confused and his daughter is getting nursing training so that she can find work overseas so that she can send money back to the family..... we really just don't know.


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## RandomDude

manwithnoname said:


> Generalizations and stereotypes don't start out of thin air.


Nope, but alot of it is propaganda meant to dehumanise the 'other'.

Starts from simply being different.


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## RandomDude

personofinterest said:


> I'll be honest, I would have the same concerns if my daughter was dating a man who was raised in the Bill Gothard version of Christianity. Any time a church or religion has an abusive, manipulative, dangerous, or overly legalistic side to it, there's danger of abuse. If my daughter brought home a guy who was King James Bible only didn't believe in birth control, wasn't going to "allow" her to work, and expected her to only wear dresses and never speak in the church.....I'd have serious concerns as well.
> 
> So for me, while only an idiot would minimize radical Islam, it isn't JUST about Islam. It's anything "cultlike."


Yes, many religions just encourage irrational thinking and encourages self-righteousness. It's a reputation that they have earned through their present teachings as well as history.



peacem said:


> My daughter is starting her second year at Uni and has fallen head over heals with a muslim young man. He is 3rd generation, he has not visited a mosque since he was a young teenager, he drinks and does things he is not supposed to do as a muslim :wink2:.
> However...his family are very conservative muslims. Although we will accept any person who my daughter sees fit, his family will never accept her. A side issue is that MY parents are not happy at all and are busy winding me up with the narrative that he will control her, take her money, convert and assault her :surprise:.
> I like him, he is very confident and hardworking, he looks after her very well and is a traditional gentleman. His own family are rather dysfunctional with domestic abuse and terrible poverty and there is a part of me that wants to adopt :grin2:.
> Not sure what my question is other than wanting opinions and words of wisdom..
> Thank you x


How independent is he? Also does he still call himself a muslim? 
How about your daughter? What does she believe?

There are several factors to consider in determining whether this relationship has a future or not.


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## manwithnoname

RandomDude said:


> Nope, but alot of it is propaganda meant to dehumanise the 'other'.
> 
> Starts from simply being different.


And this works both ways. There have been many reports of crime enforcement agencies and media being ordered to not report crimes by immigrant Islamic refugees in several countries. Probably to prevent an uproar against immigration.


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## manfromlamancha

uhtred said:


> I wonder how many of the people posting here know Muslims or have spent a lot of time in Muslim majority countries.
> 
> I'm quite surprised at the image of Muslims that many posters seem to have, and wonder where it came from. Sure, there are horrible extremists, but there are many types of dangerous extremists.
> 
> Last time I was in a majority (>95%) Islamic country, I was chatting with my taxi driver. He was very excited that his daughter was going to medical school.


In answer to your first question I am a person who has spent a significant part of my life in many Muslim countries and have an above average view of the different types of Muslims out there and their particular Islamic nuances. I can read a number of scripts (including Arabic). If we had enough time I could go through it all with you. In response to your last comment, of course he would be pleased - why would he not. There are many non fanatical Muslims out there. 

However, the religion doesn't half make their lives difficult for them. They (like some Christians too) are torn between faith and what they believe is the right thing to do and to appreciate. So it becomes necessary for the faith vendors to villify anything that might detract from pure adherence to the faith and as always, it is in the best interests of the religion to keep as many uninformed as possible.

It is not the people but the faith that I am questioning and warning about - and this very same faith can make otherwise very sane and normal people sometimes do things that are not what they would really want to do under other circumstances. 

For example, there is a very real fear instilled in most Muslims that if their kids are not brought up in the "true faith" there is a real chance that they will be damned for all time (by the way, I have seen this in Christianity and Judaism too). As a result, these fears come to manifest themselves later on in a relationship when children arrive etc.

Also there is an underlying current of thought that all non-Muslims are simply shameless and bad. This is brought up from time to time in everyday speech in a family but never in front of outsiders.

My view is that many Muslim countries were never comfortable with being converted to Islam (e.g. South East Asia). Even honest Iranians question it - they had thousands of years of civilisation before the Arabs and Turks converted them (and they had a very established religion - Zoroastrianism - from which some aspects of the life of Christ was borrowed like born of a Virgin after being visited by an Angel etc). Their country has been in nothing but trouble ever since!!!

Islam however did suit the Arabs of the desert who badly needed a faith to follow. And the rules were already in place for their culture so it did not represent too much of an upheaval to their practices and way of life.

The real question is whether it can have a place in Western society and my belief is not without significant moderation and displacement of power. You cannot have people from somewhere else dictating how people in a westernised country behave. And that is the simple truth.

The OP's daughter is with someone who ultimately will answer to this other authority at some stage - either because of family, friends, events or whatever. And that is what she needs to be careful of.


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## manfromlamancha

OK peacem, here is a more practical bit of advice:

If your daughter is truly in love with the boy and he reciprocates and is a hard worker as you say etc., then keep him close to your family. Let him see how your family lives, what you value, what you expect of your friends and family and why and let him experience all this as being part of the family.

That is one way to protect against influences from his family and their friends. But be warned, it is not foolproof.

Let him understand that you are aware of what could go wrong up front and discuss these concerns with him when the time is right and in front of your daughter.

That way, he will not be surprised if things get nipped in the bud if he starts acting up in future. Also encourage him to air his views openly without fear of repercussions. This will encourage open dialogue and force him to really think about what you are saying.


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## MaiChi

I am wondering why you quickly noticed and focused on the fact that the young gentleman is a Muslim. I probably would also notice that myself but i would have to question myself on that notice. If he is a gent in all other aspects, then there maybe nothing to really discuss. My best friend married a Muslim doctor and she is white Irish Catholic. They have three children and she is so proud of herself. He is first generation. He has never had any problems with his family. 

If any judgement is at all to be done, it is the fact that domestic violent is almost always passed to the children from the parents, along with other factors such as alcoholism, criminality, and idleness. Those are a lot more worrying than that his grand parents were muslims. But as you have already said, he has not picked up any of them and he is a gentleman.


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## john117

Give him time...


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