# Struggling



## Starman

Hey everyone,

First time here, so apologies if I haven't got this whole conversation in easy to explain order.

I have recently (less than a week ago) discovered that my wife is cheating on me with her boss (she works at a retail store in a large shopping center and does not regularly chat with him at work as he is in the medical profession and is with clients all day).

My wife and I have always had an open communications relationship since day 1, we both agreed that in this day and age far too many people cant trust each other and any emails or phone message we get are fine to observe. Obviously with this there is times where you might want some privacy, e.g. approach to valentines day, prior to Christmas, birthdays etc, and we are happy to let each other know not to go prying for a few days or a week in particular areas to prevent surprises being ruined, which is all fine with both of us.

We have been together for over 7 years, married for 5 now with two kids aged 2 and 6. (Bit of background perspective)

As the years have progressed, she has arranged to have her own bank account which only she can access, and I have an account that is my only one which she and I can access. I put all my passwords,etc in a particular place for anything I own and she has access to this at any time, whereas now I cannot access her email or Facebook as she has changed the passwords (it can actually be very health and enjoyable to get in on conversations with her friends on Facebook and vice versa, its been going on for years).

Recently she had an operation to improve her body image, and I will leave it at that, but it was about 2 months ago roughly. She has also recently been excessively grooming herself, e.g. waxing, eyebrow tattooing, lots of makeup and hours of preparation prior to leaving the house, which is not totally out of character as she is a makeup artist, but as you may know, you notice the little things in your partners that change over time, its not always blatantly obvious that someone is cheating on you.

So going forward, I have recently in the last few months taken on a new job which involves lots of heavy studying and workload which has me working full-time plus roughly 30 hrs of study on top a week which takes up most of my week. During this she has sought friends to replace the time I am not able to spend with her and I have been supportive of her in this as I cannot fill the void.

One particular friend she has been catching up with at least a few days (nights, ill explain further later) a week. This friend happens to be her boss and I have had no dramas with this as sometimes all you want to do is talk about your work dramas with someone and I completely understand as I am in the military.

I have been taking her to catch up with this male friend on certain occasions, and had absolutely no reason to doubt my wife's loyalty at all. After catching up with him she felt good and I was in total belief it was due to her work issues (she explains it as similar to mean girls movie some of the women there and how they treat her).

Recently she has bought some lingerie, and it is leading up to Valentines day so I didn't think too much of it, but yet again, very out of character for her and not something that she has ever done in the past. We actually share an eBay account as its just easier that way as we only ever buy things and never sell on there. Now I haven't used the account in a few years and she never changed the password so I went on one day just to take a look at some Lego for the kids and the bidding page popped up with a bunch of lingerie. (this will make sense later)

She has recently in the past few weeks been catching up with this friend boss of hers quite late in the night, with the opinion that I need to study and the kids are asleep anyway so why can't she go out and I had no problem with this again, but still seemed a bit odd as she was getting home at 1/2am in the morning and didn't feel like it was a problem when she was sleeping in till 9-10 am on sat,sun mornings.

After this, she has made excuses to go into "work" to pickup Tupperware from this guy as she says she will be judged at work for seeing him there as the girls are jealous of his and her friendship. she has been constantly saying she cant confront this other girl about the issues as it will cause more dramas but I have a feeling this other girl either a: likes the guy herself, or b: knows whats going on and is making her life hell as she also believes in point a.

So she wont confront her at work, because I feel this girl knows whats going on and my wife knows this also, so she wont bring the issue to the table as it will be out then and may get back to me. This other girl who doesn't like my wife does regularly contact my wife's boss, even when they are catching up together as she tells me about it and I'm convinced the other girl is actually either sleeping with him already or as I said earlier knows about whats going on as she has been quoted to texting him saying "Watch out for gold diggers" as he is quite a wealthy man being in his profession and being part owner in the business.

I have told my wife I feel that he is sleeping with this girl and my wife got extremely defensive and stated I shouldn't tell her whats going on and I should just listen, but the more I kept poking and repeating that I feel this other girl is sleeping with her boss she got really upset. Now normally anyone who wasn't involve would simply say "You know what, she probably is sleeping with the boss and that explains why he wont defend me at work and takes her side". She simply yells at me and says I don't understand the situation and there is nothing to suggest that is what is happening.

A few days ago the reason I immediately felt she was betraying me was that I wanted to take a photo of her in my uniform just for giggles, to see what she looked like in it. She agreed and she had her phone on her and I didn't at the time so I took a photo of her and it went to the gallery of her phone.

In here I found a bunch of naked pictures of which were the posing type, and were obviously for someone based on the poses,etc and not just a trying to feel confident about herself kind of way. She is extremely lacking in sex drive over the years and would never take photos of herself, let alone posing ones and if she ever did she would likely send them to me (I would have hoped). On this occasion I said "Oooohh, looks good babe" and left it at that, and she replied with "Oh yeah, I was going to send them to you but I just forgot". I didn't think much of it even then but it ticked over in my head. 

My wife is the kind of person who is attached at the hip to her phone, she has always been that way so its not really a big thing there but not sending those kind of photos for several days really defeats the purpose as usually one would be in the mood for something or want to show them off as soon as possible given the type of pictures.

So this got me thinking, and from this point forward I was not necessarily convinced that she was cheating on me, but perhaps was sending pictures to someone to boost her confidence levels and felt she couldn't approach me due to my heavy workload. Probably still forgivable at the end of the day but still highly damaging for trust within the relationship.

So anyway I found out that she was cheating on me by reading her Facebook messenger one day, as she hasn't changed her phone password in forever, so I decided since I had a heavy belief that something was going on, and we did agree that we had an open relationship in terms of conversation discussions, I would simply look briefly at the one person whom I felt was the heavy focus of her attention.

I am not the guy that typically looks at her phone messages, and in fact I haven't done it for years except on the occasions she has physically shown me messages and maybe left the phone with me to take a look at regarding friends chats,etc. It used to be a normal thing for us and I even feel bad doing it but I discovered that not only does she have feelings for this guy, but it has progressed to a physical relationship now.

I have found out she has at the very least kissed him, as she has mentioned that his lips taste great, and also that she wants sex from him as she has said "you can come and stay - food, sex and a sleep in, what more could you want!". 

She has mentioned she would like to do other things to him, and also probably many more but I only checked 3 days perhaps worth of conversation and I have no idea how long it has been going on, but I suspect not too long due to the nature of the conversation, as these things usually heat up fast, but hey I'm no infidelity expert.

So I instigated a separation from her on the following day without reason other than a 3 hour argument with her over unrelated standard relationship issues. I did not bring up the topic of the cheating as she threatened to both ruin my career and also vaguely referenced to harm towards myself as I had ruined her life by choosing to amicably separate due to continuous fighting for years.

At this point right now, I had just asked her to let me see the conversations her and her boss had been having, and she told me she had "confidential client information" in these messages and needed at least a few minutes to delete them prior to me viewing their conversation, but I could tell on the inside she was really panicking. I simply said to her I thought it was crap that she would use that excuse as she only works in a retail store and what craps would I give about client information and I would happily ignore such information even if it was there.

She tried to deflect this and stated that I didn't let her see conversations from years ago when we had a big fight between myself and my parents and I told her that it wasn't really a good idea as it did say some nasty stuff about her but that was between me and my parents and not exactly the same type of point as I would never pry into her parents conversations either, its just an obvious no-go area that is not necessary.

So I highlighted that it was an obvious trust issue and she continued to try and deflect it away, then eventually said I was a joke and walked off in a huff and quickly rang one of her friends so I couldn't approach her and try to get more information out of her.


What I need help with guys, and even if its just ideas for dealing with it, not necessarily how to go forward but I am open ears for anything right now actually.

How do I move forward here, she is clearly on the defensive, but still in her mind she feels she can block me off enough and her actions are not enough to justify my thoughts. I already know she is cheating on me in some capacity and she is still talking to me about trust and even accusing me of cheating in our conversation two nights ago!

She was talking to her boss tonight on the phone at home, as she does it in front of me openly (of course, he is just a friend right?) except this particular night she decides she has to go the service station for fuel and cigarettes and had to continue their conversation further there (clearly to either bag me out, or to give her loving words to him in secret). She comes home and goes outside and has a smoke and continues to talk to him, I go outside to join in the conversation as I genuinely care about her work issues and wish she didn't have them, and she decides to say "hey I bet you need to get to bed now, Ill leave you too it" as soon as I walk outside.

I roll my eyes and head on in with a huff, clearly disapproving of her actions and she panics and in about 1-2 mins comes to grab me and puts him on loudspeaker so I can join in the conversation.

By now you may be thinking why the hell have I not just confronted her about the infidelity, I am mad to leave this hanging in my face.

Well for one, she has threatened my career and possibly myself, the last thing I want to do while separation is still quite a fresh topic is stir the pot even more. 

I genuinely feel like I might be in danger if I openly bring this up anywhere other than a public place, but still even then the topic coming to conversation may trigger further events which could get nasty and both my children are my priority at this stage and their safety.

Is it just me, or does she think I am REALLY REALLY stupid and can't see whats going on with so many sudden changes in her way of life, her actions towards me, and almost everything else adding together that makes it look so bloody obvious she is hiding something.

I appreciate your thoughts, and feel free to let me know if I am being the bad one here, because I am really not sure, but I feel my time is done with my wife and I will never be able to forgive her for this based on how much effort she is putting into this lie that is so obvious to me, and I can finally see how so much of my life has been a lie.

P.S. She is an extremely convincing person, even after knowing what is going on, this is allowing me to be aware of every aspect of her life she is lying about, and giving me a real insight in the possible signs to detect of someone actually lying to you, when I trusted her so heavily.

As I said, your comments are greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Starman (lets call me that for now!)


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## deg20

Aside from the fact that she is lying, cheating ( at least an EA for now, but probably will or has elevated to a PA ), disrespecting, and gaslighting you, any spouse that resorts to blackmail ( damaging your career ) is not a loving spouse and seems to have zero care about you and how you feel, or how this is causing you grief and doubt...

Do you really think the woman you married should resort to such tactics as ruining your career? That is blatant disregard and a hateful act...that's your wife, man!

I'm not an expert, but I would seriously be pondering a drift away from her...not only is she disrespecting your relationship, she is treating you horribly as a person. Period


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## New_Beginnings

If she's threatening your career, yes there's more and she doesn't appear apologetic in any sense of what she's done. I'm sorry you're going through this. She's overstepped being appropriate with her boss (understatement) and has balls enough to still communicate with him in your face. I'm not sure I would want to work things out with a spouse who has zero respect and or zero remorse for her actions.


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## Mrs. Rodriguez

She's obviously 100% cheating
You need to go in detective mode and get all the facts before you make a decision. You need to find out everything. Ppl here will give you great advice how. A lot of ppl have been in your shoes!
I'm so sorry your here


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## ThePheonix

How is it she has the juice to destroy your career? You seem to be scared shytless of her and what she can do.


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## MovingFrwrd

Sorry you're here. I wish I had found this site when I first had inklings about my wife's affair. I did so many things wrong. A few things right, but mostly wrong.

Best advice right now is eyes open, mouth shut. Don't confront without solid evidence. Read about the 180, and implement:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1302891381/The+180

For help finding information, check this post out:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

My hope for you is that it hasn't gone fully physical (kissing is a bad sign), although emotional affairs are also quite difficult.


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## MattMatt

Those girls are not jealous of her and the boss!

They are feeling angry that she is cheating with him!

Blow the affair up. Now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory

Looks like to me, you are just trying to complicate a situation that is really not that complicated.

Your wife is cheating on you and threatening you. You should be afraid of staying married to her instead of divorcing her.

Talk to a lawyer and start the divorce process, separate your finances and calculate your exit strategy. Then man up and confront your wife with the reason you are divorcing. Ask her to leave the house. If she won't, separate her from your bedroom and implement the 180 to detach from her.

Keep proceeding with the divorce and see how she reacts. Short of a miracle turn around by her, you finish the D and move on with your life.

But, if you ever happen to think she is turning around; check with us first. Most of us are fairly expert on identifying genuine remorse.


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## Roselyn

Woman here. Your wife is cheating and in a full blown affair. Is your wife's boss married? Expose your wife to her boss's wife. Contact that co-worker that your wife hates. I bet you a dollar that she knows a whole lot more on your wife's relationship with her boss.

Follow the advice of your lawyer. Definitely separate your expenses. Your wife is planning her exit strategy and is ahead of you. She does not respect you nor fear of losing her marriage. Truly sorry that you are here.


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## nursejackie

This must be a nightmare for you. I am sorry you are going through this. 

She is deep S#it in the fog. Read about what that is-its a tough concept to understand. She is so messed up with her feel good affair chemicals that it feels like a drug and makes everything else disappear including her rationality and sanity. It is powerful like an addiction.

THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE WHAT SHE IS DOING!!!!!!!!!!

IMO under NORMAL circumstances you have enough information to tell her you want to D. Start the 180 and file. This would either shake her out of her fog and knock some sense into her or shake the boss up and he will dump her like theres no tomorrow. He sounds like a player and has at least one other woman on the go. Theres no way he wants a "wife" he just wants his ego stroked and sex. 

It sounds like you have genuine concerns about you and your family's physical safety and your career. Can you give us more information about this? What kind of threats did she make? How could she jeopardize your job? Has she got something damaging to hold over you?


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## Plan 9 from OS

How can she ruin your career? It sounds like you two already have a disrespectful relationship now? Dismissing you by telling you to go to bed while she's talking to her male boss on the phone?

Toss this b!tch to the curb. Fvck man, she's running running errands to get beer and cigarettes? Sounds like ******* trash to me. You should treat her as such and divorce the skank.


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## Acoa

If you make more than her, it would be pretty stupid of her to ruin your career. She would benefit from spousal support, but if you lost your job because of her, she may have to support you. So, consider that an idle threat. 

Confront her about her deceit and infidelity. Tell her the marriage is over, and that you can do it the easy way. There is such a thing as an amicable divorce. You negotiate terms and both sign off in court. In most states it can be done in six months. You'll leave out the infidelity stuff and you can file for 'irreconcilable differences' or whatever the equivalent is in your state. 

Or she can fight you, and turn it into the war of the roses and piss away all the assets on lawyers and court costs. Ruin your career and drag it out for 2 years. And still be divorced. But now divorced, bitter and broke. Her choice.


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## arbitrator

*From Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, "Can you spell cheater? ~ C H E A T E R ~I knew you could!"

Not to be flippant, but it's time to lawyer up with a good piranha barrister and find out what your rights are, but of one thing I'm virtually certain ~ do not vacate the home under any circumstances and send her cheating a$$ packing off!

My educated guess is that she's had the good Doctor's DNA floating around in her for sometime now ~ which also speaks to you getting tested for STD's!

Lose the lying cheating witch! You deserve far better out of life!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

#1 log into her FB account and download the archive to see if you can get her messenger data. Put it in a safe place.
#2 kick her out of the house or the bedroom and stop talking to her.
#3 talk to a lawyer about your options.
#4 send her a text telling her that you have full evidence of her affair with her boss and are ready to expose it far and wide if she threatens you again. Tell her that you are divorcing her immediately unless she comes clean about everything. And if she won't do that, she agrees to an amicable separation and custody agreement or it goes public.


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## eric1

Is her boyfriend married?


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## Idyit

Lots of good advice. Do you doubt the conclusions you've seen here?

Please act to protect yourself. Hasn't been mentioned but with her threats to your physical and financial self I would carry a VAR (voice activated recorder) or cue up a recorder on your phone. Check your local laws regarding recording first.

~ Passio


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## EleGirl

I too would like to know how she can destroy your career. It's hard to give input when you throw out a gem like that and then just go on like it's something normal. The advice I would give you depends on how realistic her threat is.

So please tell us how she would do that. What does she have on you? Or do you just work somewhere and se would call your boss and tell him/her lies, and spread lies around your office?


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## Marc878

I would get her phone and do a deleted text recovery, if she backs it up it's even easier.

Stick a var under her car seat, etc.

You are way to passive here. No wonder she does what she pleases.


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## turnera

You feel you may be in danger from what?


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## Starman

Hey everyone thanks for the input and advice.

1. He is single so no leverage on his wife or him being too worried about anything there.

2. My wife has fabricated lies in her everyday life to get what she wants, I am 100% straight down the line with my job and have never done anything shady so I don't fear she will expose me, I simply fear she will make something up to hurt me. She is the type of person that lies to get sick days, or informs her friends that I am cheating to get them on her side.

3. I have collected information so far, but its only a few days in. I have enough information to prove she is having somewhat an affair, and have also last night read that she is talking to a previous boss of mine that hates me for a reason unknown to myself, and they have discussed how to "**** me over" and that catching up with hurt me more than anything. On top of that he has said her body looks great and has offered to buy her lingerie which she definitely did not knock back. He even stated when my wife asked about him catching up with her and the repercussions of his wife "we only have one life, we need to do what makes us happy". So they could even have a thing going in the future if not now.

4. I'm from Australia guys, so sorry if some of the information regarding the legal side or anything like that might not be on par.

5. I'm more than happy to "man up" and confront the situation, but she is a very violent and reactive person and I feel gathering evidence right now is more appropriate to both ensure there is absolutely no way she can deny both the affair (to a certain degree) and at the very least attempting to character assassinate me and make my life hell in every way possible.

6. I have been passive so far as she has previously attempted suicide, as it turns out in her letter to the world, in the whole two pages it mentioned nothing about me being an ******* or a terrible person, or even that it was my fault, it was a whole bunch of not being able to handle things. When she attempted suicide, I managed to stop her from finishing the job, called the equivalent to 911 (000 for us) and got an ambulance there and admitted first aid until they arrived, but she was very violent with the ambulance staff so they called the cops, but she agreed to go right before the police got there. Once in hospital she told them it was all my fault due to what I believe the guilt in me either stopping her, or ringing the ambulance causing an awkward issue for her. So after her blaming that on me when I had nothing to do with it (other than standard arguments in a failed relationship, which i'm not beating myself up over) this is why I am nervous about what she could make up in regards to my job. It only takes one time where she says I hit her, or that she feels the children's lives are in danger as she feels i'm aggressive then even if its not true she may get the benefit of the doubt and hurt my career.

7. As I am in the military, I am entitled to a house over here, so leaving myself is not the best option as I get to retain the house as long as I have the children a few months of the year. So splitting rooms may be the best move forward here, but after exposing her things may turn sour very quickly.

Quotes from messages to her boss

Her: I just finished waxing my arms for you

Him: I thought you don't have a sex drive
Her: Well I didn't, but look what you have done to me 

Him: You need to go shower or something.
Her: Nope just another night with you.

Her: Good because I want you so bad, I cant stop thinking about you, I have been laying in bed for hours wishing you were here making love to me.

Her: Love you.

To other people

Her: I am so furious I want to go "head **** head guess what I ****ed my boss last night so suck on them apples.

Her: Shame I didn't actually hit the **** in the head. Might have knocked some sense into him.

Her: Hell yeah we should get the (work guys of my previous job a few months ago in another building) together and go get trashed and make sure he hears about how ****ing awesome of a time everyone had without him.

Her: I should just **** my boss, that will teach him a lesson.
Him (friend of hers to above 2 messages): No you don't want to do that, It would make work life hard.
Her: He promised me a snow trip, I'm still waiting.
Him: Well the offer still stands, I could pic you up something. nothing says F U Ex like a guy buying you some Victoria's Secret.
Her: LOL, That would work.

Thanks for the feedback guys, greatly appreciate it. If I come across as weak or passive it is due to me gathering evidence and ensuring my children don't get hurt in this as much as possible.


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## turnera

VARs in her car and in the bedroom. Camera in the house. Talk to anyone at her work that you think would help you watch her (like call you if she and boss leave together). Hire a PI to get REAL proof - money well spent. Print everything you can get your hands on and keep a copy of it all at your work or at a friend's house. Contact a lawyer to get your rights.


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## bandit.45

file for divorce or legal separation. If you are in Oz I guess you have to abide by that 1year wait right?

Best thing to do is send a mass e-mail to family and friends indicating that you are ending the marriage due to her infidelity. You don't need to say anything more than that. Let her family and friends rip into her. You stay at a distance and let her deal with the storm. Protect yourself as well as you can legally. Open up a new checking account and have your pay checks deposited there so she has no access to your money. 

If you are that scared of her , I wouldn't confront her directly. But, I thought you Aussie blokes were supposed to be tougher than average? Anyways, have a VAR in your pocket at all times. Carry a cricket bat around with you for protection.


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## Vinnydee

Sherman, all the signs of cheating were there long before you decided to notice them. Classic cheating wife behavior. The problem is that many husbands like you, don't want to believe that their wives are cheating. Then when they cannot bury their head in the sand anymore, they grasp at anything to not believe that their wife is a cheat. I have been with a few married women in my time and they are very good at it. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. Your problem is not your wife anymore but rather your acceptance of reality. I get it. Who wants to go through a divorce and pay alimony and sell their home.

Your wife is giving you straws to grasp that do not lead to divorce. I have been on both sides of cheating and you can catch your wife naked in your bed with a naked guy and she will deny, deny, deny. She will tell you it was the first time or they had not done anything yet and all sorts of reasons that she needed to cheat because you drove her to it, etc.. She will make you think that there is something wrong with you, not her. You can do what many husbands do and turn a blind eye or grab onto something she said that you can believe so that you do not have to face the alternative. 

What you need to do is decide how you can live with someone you cannot trust? You will be trying to look at her phone all the time and checking out her computer. Every time she comes home late or goes on a business trip, you stomach will be in knots thinking that she may be cheating on you. Eventually she will get tired of all the suspicions and accusations, and leave you. It has happened to my two best friends and is not an uncommon story.


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## badmemory

Well, I can now better understand your situation. Batsh!t crazy, cheating wife, with children to account for.

You need an exit strategy in the worst way; to include how to stay away from her, while protecting your child custody - that is after you confront. 

That's where an attorney comes in. The sooner you consult with one the better.

And I'll repeat the other posters' advice. Do not be around her without the ability to record her at a moment's notice. Buy a VAR. Tether your smart phone around your wrist if you have to.


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## ThePheonix

Lawyer up ASAP. You already know the score so let an attorney do the driving from here on out. If you delay and try to be your own attorney, you have a fool for a client my man.


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## Chaparral

In addition to recent posts. Take an Outline to your commanding officer and let him and whatever counsellors are available to you. The best defense is a good offense. Let them know exactly what role your ex boss is playing.


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## Marc878

You won't admit it to yourself but you are affraid of her so she does what she wants.

She had zero respect for you probably because you take whatever she gives you.

The way she talks about you is enough to divorce her. I'd just file and move on with my life.

The one thing you need to take away. You need to respect yourself or no one else will.

Get gone!!!!!!! Faster the better.


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## wmn1

180, divorce and restraining order. get rid of this evil woman


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## Popcorn2015

She has done everything with her boss.

I'm inclined to encourage you to expose to her family, but see what your lawyer says.


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## Kivlor

Starman said:


> 5. I'm more than happy to "man up" and confront the situation, but *she is a very violent and reactive person* and I feel gathering evidence right now is more appropriate to both ensure there is absolutely no way she can deny both the affair (to a certain degree) and at the very least attempting to *character assassinate me and make my life hell in every way possible*.
> 
> 6. I have been passive so far as she has previously attempted suicide, as it turns out in her letter to the world, in the whole two pages it mentioned nothing about me being an ******* or a terrible person, or even that it was my fault, it was a whole bunch of not being able to handle things. *When she attempted suicide*, I managed to stop her from finishing the job, called the equivalent to 911 (000 for us) and got an ambulance there and admitted first aid until they arrived, but she was very violent with the ambulance staff so they called the cops, but she agreed to go right before the police got there. *Once in hospital she told them it was all my fault *due to what I believe the guilt in me either stopping her, or ringing the ambulance causing an awkward issue for her. So after her blaming that on me when I had nothing to do with it (other than standard arguments in a failed relationship, which i'm not beating myself up over) *this is why I am nervous about what she could make up in regards to my job. It only takes one time where she says I hit her, or that she feels the children's lives are in danger as she feels i'm aggressive then even if its not true she may get the benefit of the doubt and hurt my career.*


She's sleeping with him. Read the messages you posted. 

Read the parts I bolded in your post. This is very very nasty behavior. Get a lawyer. File for D.

Someone already posted the Evidence post, but I'm going to recommend this little gem from MEM11363. 

Sorry you're here. 

I don't know the laws in AU, so, I'd start by meeting a lawyer right away. If infidelity doesn't affect the outcome of D in your jurisdiction, I'd probably not waste much time or energy investigating. You already know.

Tell your attorney you want to take everything possible from her. And follow through. Better to win, and be able to gift her something (or let her see the children on your terms) than to lose, and be left with nothing. 

When the time comes for confrontation, beat her to it. Blow this up publicly. Call her family. Call her friends. Bring in everyone you can, and let them know. Send them copies so it can't be denied. *Don't tell her you're going to; don't tell her you did. * Just do it. Destroy her reputation in every way possible. 

Wreck her world before she wrecks yours. 

You need to understand something: *There is no way you can prevent her lying to the police, to a hospital, to her friends, to you employer, etc.* She has a track record, she'll do it. You're going to have to be tougher than her. You need to let your boss know what's going on, probably. 

Start by making sure to always carry a Voice Activated Recorder on your body. Always make sure batteries are good and there's room on it. Try to interact with her while witnesses are around.

I'm speaking from experience. I grew up with a family of women who regularly pulled these shenanigans. I've watched as a woman injured herself to blame me, and even had her daughter hit her and call the cops to try to pin it on me. Do not assume she won't. She may even have her OM do it.

I would get this person out of my life if I were you.


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## turnera

Yeah, this is NOT the type of person you're going to be able to negotiate with, she will ONLY understand strength. If you need someone else's help to pump you up, do it.


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## Be smart

Sorry you are here my friend.

You need to protect yourself and your kids. Your wife is crazy,evil person.

Talk with your lawyer as soon as possible. See your rights about custody.

She is cheating on you and blackmailing you. I belive this is not the first time she cheated.

One more thing. EXPOSE this to family (both of them) and close friends. She is already saying bad things about you.

I really hate to bring this up but you let her DATE HER BOSS in front of your eyes. 

Next time time find yourself a good woman and dont have secret accounts,paswords and talk about boundaries. Make sure this never happens again.

Stay strong.


----------



## Thor

Your wife sounds like a Borderline Personality disorder. She is mentally unstable at the very least. I don't think she's going to change. You're not going to shock her into some kind of reality where she becomes the woman you thought you were marrying. Things will only escalate further and further.

Protect yourself and your kids. Talk to a lawyer and your commanding officer.


----------



## rachaelm

Starman said:


> Hey everyone thanks for the input and advice.
> 
> 1. He is single so no leverage on his wife or him being too worried about anything there.
> 
> 2. My wife has fabricated lies in her everyday life to get what she wants, I am 100% straight down the line with my job and have never done anything shady so I don't fear she will expose me, I simply fear she will make something up to hurt me. She is the type of person that lies to get sick days, or informs her friends that I am cheating to get them on her side.
> 
> 3. I have collected information so far, but its only a few days in. I have enough information to prove she is having somewhat an affair, and have also last night read that she is talking to a previous boss of mine that hates me for a reason unknown to myself, and they have discussed how to "**** me over" and that catching up with hurt me more than anything. On top of that he has said her body looks great and has offered to buy her lingerie which she definitely did not knock back. He even stated when my wife asked about him catching up with her and the repercussions of his wife "we only have one life, we need to do what makes us happy". So they could even have a thing going in the future if not now.
> 
> 4. I'm from Australia guys, so sorry if some of the information regarding the legal side or anything like that might not be on par.
> 
> 5. I'm more than happy to "man up" and confront the situation, but she is a very violent and reactive person and I feel gathering evidence right now is more appropriate to both ensure there is absolutely no way she can deny both the affair (to a certain degree) and at the very least attempting to character assassinate me and make my life hell in every way possible.
> 
> 6. I have been passive so far as she has previously attempted suicide, as it turns out in her letter to the world, in the whole two pages it mentioned nothing about me being an ******* or a terrible person, or even that it was my fault, it was a whole bunch of not being able to handle things. When she attempted suicide, I managed to stop her from finishing the job, called the equivalent to 911 (000 for us) and got an ambulance there and admitted first aid until they arrived, but she was very violent with the ambulance staff so they called the cops, but she agreed to go right before the police got there. Once in hospital she told them it was all my fault due to what I believe the guilt in me either stopping her, or ringing the ambulance causing an awkward issue for her. So after her blaming that on me when I had nothing to do with it (other than standard arguments in a failed relationship, which i'm not beating myself up over) this is why I am nervous about what she could make up in regards to my job. It only takes one time where she says I hit her, or that she feels the children's lives are in danger as she feels i'm aggressive then even if its not true she may get the benefit of the doubt and hurt my career.
> 
> 7. As I am in the military, I am entitled to a house over here, so leaving myself is not the best option as I get to retain the house as long as I have the children a few months of the year. So splitting rooms may be the best move forward here, but after exposing her things may turn sour very quickly.
> 
> Quotes from messages to her boss
> 
> Her: I just finished waxing my arms for you
> 
> Him: I thought you don't have a sex drive
> Her: Well I didn't, but look what you have done to me
> 
> Him: You need to go shower or something.
> Her: Nope just another night with you.
> 
> Her: Good because I want you so bad, I cant stop thinking about you, I have been laying in bed for hours wishing you were here making love to me.
> 
> Her: Love you.
> 
> To other people
> 
> Her: I am so furious I want to go "head **** head guess what I ****ed my boss last night so suck on them apples.
> 
> Her: Shame I didn't actually hit the **** in the head. Might have knocked some sense into him.
> 
> Her: Hell yeah we should get the (work guys of my previous job a few months ago in another building) together and go get trashed and make sure he hears about how ****ing awesome of a time everyone had without him.
> 
> Her: I should just **** my boss, that will teach him a lesson.
> Him (friend of hers to above 2 messages): No you don't want to do that, It would make work life hard.
> Her: He promised me a snow trip, I'm still waiting.
> Him: Well the offer still stands, I could pic you up something. nothing says F U Ex like a guy buying you some Victoria's Secret.
> Her: LOL, That would work.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback guys, greatly appreciate it. If I come across as weak or passive it is due to me gathering evidence and ensuring my children don't get hurt in this as much as possible.


What is your goal? Do you want her back or do you want a divorce? What does she have over you that could hurt your career or are you afraid she will make accusations of abuse and that will affect your job?


----------



## OldWolf57

Starman, you have enough evidence from the life attempt.
those EMTs saw, heard, and felt her rage.
They can testify in court man.

Don't know why you feel she has the upperhand, when she handed you this great gift.

The next time she starts her threats, record her with your phone and call the cops.
Play the recording and ask them to remove her from the home.
Tell them of her attempt on her life.
It's a public record, so it's there.
Her making up lies won't hurt you at all, with that suicide attempt, she loses any credibility my man. Especially with your evidence.


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## LosingHim

Well. She sounds pleasant.

And you're with her why????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## deg20

LosingHim said:


> Well. She sounds pleasant.
> 
> And you're with her why????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Usually it's hard to pick out sarcasm through written word, but this?,,,perfect...lol!


----------



## RWB

Starman said:


> _*Her: I should just **** my boss, that will teach him a lesson.*_


Classy and caring, all in one package?

Bail Now.


----------



## eric1

Jesus Christ man, this falls under CUT BAIT in the dictionary


----------



## MattMatt

Medical professional?

Words must be had with his governing body.

Set your Solicitor on him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LosingHim

You need to play Justin Beiber - Love Yourself for her and then walk out the door.

Best line in the song - "Cause if you like the way you look that much, baby you should go and love yourself"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## eric1

Actually any male walking in the door playing Justin Bieber, I hereby do permit their spouses to cheat on them with abandon.


----------



## LosingHim

eric1 said:


> Actually any male walking in the door playing Justin Bieber, I hereby do permit their spouses to cheat on them with abandon.


Lol not a Beiber fan myself, but this song is perfect! 

(And ok, I'll admit I'm a Beiber fan with this particular song  )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Starman

Hey everyone thanks for heaps of great advice.

I am 100% looking to split with her, I just have to pick the right time so I can get as much information from a lawyer,etc first to ensure things go smoothly from my side and I cover my bases.

I too think she has a form of personality disorder, but it is a grey blur between 3-4 of them to be honest.

Im still with her as I have two children to her, and that has been the only reason so far.

I have contacted police and they have written down I feel endangered and that my wife is likely to fabricate something to get her way.

She has nothing over me, so im not worried about any truths, just a history of lie making when she is put in tight situations as it is always the easiest way out.

My bosses/ CO are aware and whilst they cannot do anything about it at this point in time, it will work heavily in my favor for remaining in the job, providing something may appear in the future.

For now I will continue with evidence gathering as I might get more specific threats on my life or career that I might be able to use, but as far as trying to get more info about her and the boss, im not really digging anymore as it will only upset me, the messages will be reviewed quickly just to see if there is content worth using.

She caught up with him tonight, said she was going to see a female work friend and discuss her work issues, but I'm not completely stupid and tonight she does not even have 3 messages for the entire day to him which fits in with her actually going to see him (as opposed to 50+ a day).

Thanks heaps everyone! I have talked to police and mental health advisers yesterday (the more people that can assess me as perfectly normal, the better I think it will look for me going forward).

This week will be:
Lawyers
Chaplains/Padre (you just never know how they can help)
Veterans Affairs (I'm entitled to support there, might as well use it)
Conflict management Councillor (ways to perhaps approach the separation/affair reveal - if needed)

As a final note, the police here in Australia can come out to a house and provide essentially a peacekeeper role while I deliver the terms of the separation and also they will come with me to ensure she has left the house for whatever deadline I end up setting just so nothing goes nasty.


----------



## Vikings

She is cheating, call a lawyer and start the divorce process and if the boss is married then you need to tell is wife. You have a moral obligation to tell the boss's wife if he is married. 

Good luck and sorry that you are going through this.


----------



## eric1

Starman said:


> Hey everyone thanks for heaps of great advice.
> 
> I am 100% looking to split with her, I just have to pick the right time so I can get as much information from a lawyer,etc first to ensure things go smoothly from my side and I cover my bases.
> 
> I too think she has a form of personality disorder, but it is a grey blur between 3-4 of them to be honest.
> 
> Im still with her as I have two children to her, and that has been the only reason so far.
> 
> I have contacted police and they have written down I feel endangered and that my wife is likely to fabricate something to get her way.
> 
> She has nothing over me, so im not worried about any truths, just a history of lie making when she is put in tight situations as it is always the easiest way out.
> 
> My bosses/ CO are aware and whilst they cannot do anything about it at this point in time, it will work heavily in my favor for remaining in the job, providing something may appear in the future.
> 
> For now I will continue with evidence gathering as I might get more specific threats on my life or career that I might be able to use, but as far as trying to get more info about her and the boss, im not really digging anymore as it will only upset me, the messages will be reviewed quickly just to see if there is content worth using.
> 
> She caught up with him tonight, said she was going to see a female work friend and discuss her work issues, but I'm not completely stupid and tonight she does not even have 3 messages for the entire day to him which fits in with her actually going to see him (as opposed to 50+ a day).
> 
> Thanks heaps everyone! I have talked to police and mental health advisers yesterday (the more people that can assess me as perfectly normal, the better I think it will look for me going forward).
> 
> This week will be:
> Lawyers
> Chaplains/Padre (you just never know how they can help)
> Veterans Affairs (I'm entitled to support there, might as well use it)
> Conflict management Councillor (ways to perhaps approach the separation/affair reveal - if needed)
> 
> As a final note, the police here in Australia can come out to a house and provide essentially a peacekeeper role while I deliver the terms of the separation and also they will come with me to ensure she has left the house for whatever deadline I end up setting just so nothing goes nasty.


You're a man with a plan and that is AWESOME. 

You're doing the only thing that you can do right now, which is keep busy. Do Do DO and DON'T THINK at this stage. The actions that you need to take are clear and thinking about them will only gnaw at your insides. 

Best of luck, our thoughts are with you


----------



## bandit.45

LosingHim said:


> Well. She sounds pleasant.
> 
> And you're with her why????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have taught you well. . You're coming along nicely.


----------



## bandit.45

LosingHim said:


> You need to play Justin Beiber - Love Yourself for her and then walk out the door.
> 
> Best line in the song - "Cause if you like the way you look that much, baby you should go and love yourself"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Um....next lesson: taste in music.


----------



## Acoa

Starman said:


> Hey everyone thanks for heaps of great advice.
> 
> I am 100% looking to split with her, I just have to pick the right time so I can get as much information from a lawyer,etc first to ensure things go smoothly from my side and I cover my bases.


Sounds like you are taking very prudent steps. Your kids are lucky to have such a patient father. I'm sure you have some difficult days ahead of you. Once the reality hits her, she will want to come back. Remind her of the chance you gave her to come clean. That because she didn't, you can't trust her. Good luck, and I'm sorry you have to go through this.


----------



## farsidejunky

LosingHim said:


> You need to play Justin Beiber - Love Yourself for her and then walk out the door.
> 
> Best line in the song - "Cause if you like the way you look that much, baby you should go and love yourself"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just don't quote Bieber. The only people who do that are teenage girls.

Oh! Hey there, @LosingHim !

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## LosingHim

bandit.45 said:


> Um....next lesson: taste in music.


Hey!!! It's the only song I like by him. Don't judge me. LOL

I suggested it because the song is HILARIOUS about a woman who thinks WAY too highly of herself. Every time I hear it I crack up. Seemed a little fitting in this case.


----------



## Be smart

Good luck to you my friend. Protect your kids and yourself. Take care.


----------



## Starman

I am keeping super busy right now as my current job I have just changed and its essentially being on course, only super intense (full time work learning new things, then 40+hrs a week study). I have informed all of my work colleagues and bosses what she is doing as they are not connected to her in any way and due to the nature of my job in the military they wouldn't want to risk their careers even letting their partners know.

Her boss is not married, completely single 29yr old optometrist (I was not going to mention it, but I think I should be fairly safe if they saw this that they would have figured it out already anyway!)

The other male is an old SGT boss of mine, and he has a partner (he isnt the marrying type apparently) and has been with her over 15 years, they live over 3hrs flight away so ill never be able to get in contact with her directly without raising suspicion from someone nearby and to be truthful its probably not worth it.

Lawyers tend to have lives so I have the whole weekend without being able to do anything.

Last night I did activate device manager on her phone so I could see where she is going, but she turned location services off on her phone this morning on her way to work (I could see it all happening in front of me).

My parents know about it and have been extremely supportive, and would come down and help me look after the kids in the event that she decides to dump them (she only sees the children as pawns to use against me, which is one of the main reasons I am even dealing with this now the way I am.

Kids are 2 and 6, still far too young to be immediately impacted or catch on to exactly what is happening, but my son has already been affected by this loveless marriage and it pains me to see him cry every day as his mum yells at him for 20 mins calling him a "useless ****" because he doesn't put his school shoes in his shoe box when he comes home from school.

I have tried to back my children up here, but that got her to a super aggressive mode and she stated I needed to back her up, I said she crossed the line and she said "fine you can have the bloody kids then" which is not something I can really take on right now with my intense training at work but its certainly what I would really want to do.

This may cost me my career one way or another, everyone knows a single dad of two children will never get to stick around in the military environment, its just not how things are done.

I have informed her parents that she has put in an awkward position, but I have not told them about the affair as of yet, just that they will still get to see the grandchildren no matter what happens between us and I love them like my own parents and appreciate what help they can do for me (they have taken the kids for the weekend back to their house 3 hrs away to get them out of the house).

My wife used me driving the kids to her parents place (we met half way actually) to give her a few hours to catch up with her "girlfriend" about work issues, but at this stage I have very little reason to believe she did anything other than perhaps have a 20 min coffee with this girlfriend and spend the next several hours at his place as there is not a single message to him from 4 pm onward until she got home for the night at 1 am. 


Thanks for all your support, each day I get more people on my side to talk to about my issues rather than bottling it up (something I am extremely aware of that I do) so I am tackling that by chatting with people who will not confront her and to be honest its just not worth it for them to get involved and be the reason for it all blowing up, most friends are good that way 

If you are interested to know more about anything feel free to let me know, I am an open book right now and letting it out is helping me deal with it rather than internalizing it.


----------



## Be smart

Hey we are here for you my friend. Some of us went through this shi77.

You are not going to waste any time. Pick your kids and go see your parents. Spend some nice time with them.

Think about this - you should film your wife when she yells and call names your son. This can help you a lot in Divorce.

Stay strong.


----------



## Starman

I wish I could take the kids to see my parents, but they live far way (3hr+ flight as well) and its just not practical when I have all this study to do and cannot even have a day off work at the moment.


----------



## MattMatt

Report him to the Optometry Board of Australia Optometry Board of Australia - Home


----------



## eastsouth2000

Talk to a counselor, I'm sure military has a lot of them. I'm sure military has a lot of counselors dealing marriage,infidelity&divorce.
You've gotta talk to your psych and counselor first.

Is it impossible to tell your WW, that its not working out?
She knows she is cheating, you know she is cheating?
shes not happy with the marriage and so are you?
whats stopping the separation and divorce?


----------



## sparrow555

Starman said:


> Hey everyone thanks for the input and advice.
> 
> 1. He is single so no leverage on his wife or him being too worried about anything there.
> 
> 2. My wife has fabricated lies in her everyday life to get what she wants, I am 100% straight down the line with my job and have never done anything shady so I don't fear she will expose me, I simply fear she will make something up to hurt me. She is the type of person that lies to get sick days, or informs her friends that I am cheating to get them on her side.
> 
> 3. I have collected information so far, but its only a few days in. I have enough information to prove she is having somewhat an affair, and have also last night read that she is talking to a previous boss of mine that hates me for a reason unknown to myself, and they have discussed how to "**** me over" and that catching up with hurt me more than anything. On top of that he has said her body looks great and has offered to buy her lingerie which she definitely did not knock back. He even stated when my wife asked about him catching up with her and the repercussions of his wife "we only have one life, we need to do what makes us happy". So they could even have a thing going in the future if not now.
> 
> 4. I'm from Australia guys, so sorry if some of the information regarding the legal side or anything like that might not be on par.
> 
> 5. I'm more than happy to "man up" and confront the situation, but she is a very violent and reactive person and I feel gathering evidence right now is more appropriate to both ensure there is absolutely no way she can deny both the affair (to a certain degree) and at the very least attempting to character assassinate me and make my life hell in every way possible.
> 
> 6. I have been passive so far as she has previously attempted suicide, as it turns out in her letter to the world, in the whole two pages it mentioned nothing about me being an ******* or a terrible person, or even that it was my fault, it was a whole bunch of not being able to handle things. When she attempted suicide, I managed to stop her from finishing the job, called the equivalent to 911 (000 for us) and got an ambulance there and admitted first aid until they arrived, but she was very violent with the ambulance staff so they called the cops, but she agreed to go right before the police got there. Once in hospital she told them it was all my fault due to what I believe the guilt in me either stopping her, or ringing the ambulance causing an awkward issue for her. So after her blaming that on me when I had nothing to do with it (other than standard arguments in a failed relationship, which i'm not beating myself up over) this is why I am nervous about what she could make up in regards to my job. It only takes one time where she says I hit her, or that she feels the children's lives are in danger as she feels i'm aggressive then even if its not true she may get the benefit of the doubt and hurt my career.
> 
> 7. As I am in the military, I am entitled to a house over here, so leaving myself is not the best option as I get to retain the house as long as I have the children a few months of the year. So splitting rooms may be the best move forward here, but after exposing her things may turn sour very quickly.
> 
> Quotes from messages to her boss
> 
> Her: I just finished waxing my arms for you
> 
> Him: I thought you don't have a sex drive
> Her: Well I didn't, but look what you have done to me
> 
> Him: You need to go shower or something.
> Her: Nope just another night with you.
> 
> Her: Good because I want you so bad, I cant stop thinking about you, I have been laying in bed for hours wishing you were here making love to me.
> 
> Her: Love you.
> 
> To other people
> 
> Her: I am so furious I want to go "head **** head guess what I ****ed my boss last night so suck on them apples.
> 
> Her: Shame I didn't actually hit the **** in the head. Might have knocked some sense into him.
> 
> Her: Hell yeah we should get the (work guys of my previous job a few months ago in another building) together and go get trashed and make sure he hears about how ****ing awesome of a time everyone had without him.
> 
> Her: I should just **** my boss, that will teach him a lesson.
> Him (friend of hers to above 2 messages): No you don't want to do that, It would make work life hard.
> Her: He promised me a snow trip, I'm still waiting.
> Him: Well the offer still stands, I could pic you up something. nothing says F U Ex like a guy buying you some Victoria's Secret.
> Her: LOL, That would work.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback guys, greatly appreciate it. If I come across as weak or passive it is due to me gathering evidence and ensuring my children don't get hurt in this as much as possible.



Looks like even the boss realizes how much bat sh!t crazy she is and is trying to avoid her. It looks like she is only one making advances while he is trying to turn her down(not because he has integrity but because he is trying to drop her)


----------



## Starman

Is it impossible to tell your WW, that its not working out?
She knows she is cheating, you know she is cheating?
shes not happy with the marriage and so are you?
whats stopping the separation and divorce?


The only reason she wont give up on this, is because her life will fall apart without me. She cant afford to pay rent anywhere as she only works two days a week, so once I turf her out she cannot support the children.

She said today she is quitting and looking for new work, I will be holding out for self preservation and hope she can land a full time job in the next week or two and then I can put the heavies on her about moving out and supporting herself.

If you push someone that has no-where left to go, no husband, no kids (unable to support), no friends left (most of them will ditch her as they are military friends, but not all of them), and her new lover decides to ditch her (he seems to be a player to me and this is just a fling, despite her saying she loves him, he certainly hasn't said it back, offered her a place to stay, or helped her towards dealing with the work issues other than saying you probably need to move on,just let us know so we can replace you).

I know she is cheating, she doesn't know that I know yet, its hard to keep to myself, but its the best thing for me and the kids right now, and you will just have to trust me there, I have my kids at the forefront of my thought at all times and I need to ensure that if I ever do bring up the affair at all (might not need to in order to get the separation) that its done in the best way possible.

I'm certainly not happy, and nor is she, but she has no-where else to go so she has to hold onto this image of everything is fine, or I'm the ******* to get through it all, which is the path she took by saying I need counselling. This works great for me, as I can tell her I'm getting counselling but its a completely different type to what she thinks I am.

Whats stopping the separation? Her stubbornness to not let it go, and the fear of having nothing at the end of it. I have pushed for separation and she insists that just because things are getting hard now, I can't just walk away from my problems.

I hope that helps


----------



## eastsouth2000

Starman said:


> I know she is cheating, she doesn't know that I know yet, its hard to keep to myself, but its the best thing for me and the kids right now, and you will just have to trust me there!


You should have talked to her that you know about her affair with her boss.
(talk calmly and no shouting, just be firm)-it wont be easy.

I don't know how difficult your situation is but it must be very hard. 
Do continue with counseling.

Clearly you are decent person looking out for your kids well being and also your Wayward Wife.

At the end of the day, Do what you must to advance your career and studies. I believe that would be the priority moving forward.


----------



## 6301

Call her bluff. She has you twisted up so bad you can peek up your own ass. The longer you let this go on the worse it will get. Get your own bank account, throw her out of the bedroom, let her know that starting now that all expenses are 50/50. Her bedroom is now the couch or spare room. Don't do anything for her and do things with your kids.

If she threatens your career then let her know that you can play that game and you should go see that eye doctor and ask him if he enjoys his job because your about to ruin it and with him being a doctor, well they have rules to live by or they can lose their license. 

Stop being her patsy and make her own her own trash.


----------



## Starman

the only thing stopping me from discussing it with my wife is that she may act highly aggressive and try to harm me due to the embarassment of being caught out, she has never had this much to lose and she is lying so blatently obvious to my face that I think she would find this extremely hard to cope with without snapping.

She accused me of cheating again this morning, and also that I think she is cheating, I simply dismissed it as I just feel somethings going on but im not sure what it is, as she was standing over me with her arms either side very closely while I was in bed in a very threatening manner.


----------



## Welsh15

Continue with the 180 and minimize discussion with her to just the kids and the essentials. She will get the wakeup call soon enough when you drop the bomb on her with all the evidence and blow the doors off this affair with everyone. Tell her parents her friends her coworkers everyone. Sure she most likely will be begging for you to forgive her when she realizes that you knew all along and had plans to kick her to the curb. I see little chance of remorse as she gas lights you and tells you to go to counseling. Not sure she will be capable of any real remorse but that is your decision to evaluate in context with the kids. Good luck my man. Many of us have been there. This board has the best advice.


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## Starman

Im working on the 180, slowly reducing the amount of things that may cause issues.

10,16,18,19,26 and 30 are things I am still doing, so I think I need to back off a bit more and give her some breathing space, I have been quizzing her about everything because I am aware she is running off with this guy and I personally do want her to feel guilty as hell for it and need to make up excuses, even though I know thats not right.

Her feelings of guilt are making me feel relieved, which might not be very good but its how im coping with it at the moment. She thinks I am extremely dumb and blind to what is happening, or she knows I know and is just ignoring me and sticking around as she still gets to catch up with her new lover and have a roof over her head.

If anyone can give advice on better sleeping due to staying awake all night thinking about her messaging and catching up with him im all ears. its about the only downside for me, I am getting enough sleep but I have always been an easy sleeper and it takes me 1-3hrs each night to sleep now.


----------



## jigga114

Hi Starman. Sorry for your troubles brother. 

I just have one quick question. Most armed forces frown on superior officers being overly friendly with the spouses of their subordinates. Is this the case in Oz? If I understand correct, your old boss is conspiring with your wife to do harm to you (work related), and trying to physically meet with her right. If that is the case, then I hope you have saved all the evidence from that, and that you use it to eviscerate the dirtbag officer at some point.

You are in a unique position. You are privy to your WW's and her OM's plan to ambush you. Spring your own trap before they spring theirs, and you will repay their intended mischief twice over. Good luck OP.


----------



## eastsouth2000

Starman said:


> If anyone can give advice on better sleeping due to staying awake all night thinking about her messaging and catching up with him im all ears. its about the only downside for me, I am getting enough sleep but I have always been an easy sleeper and it takes me 1-3hrs each night to sleep now.


you should talk about sleep problems with your counselor to see if he can direct you to a psych to get some meds.
or some other form of non medicine therapy.

why is your WW quitting her job? does she think it will save this marriage?

being a single parent in the military must be hard but you cant possibly be the only one.
seek out assistance from those with similar situation. 
again it would be great to seek guidance form a counselor and the military may have this.


----------



## aine

Starman said:


> Im working on the 180, slowly reducing the amount of things that may cause issues.
> 
> 10,16,18,19,26 and 30 are things I am still doing, so I think I need to back off a bit more and give her some breathing space, I have been quizzing her about everything because I am aware she is running off with this guy and I personally do want her to feel guilty as hell for it and need to make up excuses, even though I know thats not right.
> 
> Her feelings of guilt are making me feel relieved, which might not be very good but its how im coping with it at the moment. She thinks I am extremely dumb and blind to what is happening, or she knows I know and is just ignoring me and sticking around as she still gets to catch up with her new lover and have a roof over her head.
> 
> If anyone can give advice on better sleeping due to staying awake all night thinking about her messaging and catching up with him im all ears. its about the only downside for me, I am getting enough sleep but I have always been an easy sleeper and it takes me 1-3hrs each night to sleep now.



Sorry Starman that you find yourself in this place but to be honest I am wondering where your righteous anger is at what she is doing to you and your family.
When you discuss the 180 above, you appear to be doing it for all the wrong reasons, it is not to ensure SHE doesn't get upset, it is not to ensure you do not rock the boat, so to speak. It is to help YOU not her! It is to help YOU emotionally detach and get your ducks in a row, you sound co-dependent and beaten down tbh. You have gather the evident, blow her out of the water, tell all family and friends what she has done, ask her to leave, get IC for yourself and protect your kids. Call in backup from parents/siblings or friends, you have to stop this BS rather now.


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## Chaparral

Starman said:


> the only thing stopping me from discussing it with my wife is that she may act highly aggressive and try to harm me due to the embarassment of being caught out, she has never had this much to lose and she is lying so blatently obvious to my face that I think she would find this extremely hard to cope with without snapping.
> 
> She accused me of cheating again this morning, and also that I think she is cheating, I simply dismissed it as I just feel somethings going on but im not sure what it is, as she was standing over me with her arms either side very closely while I was in bed in a very threatening manner.


You're afraid of your wife? What branch of the military are you in? You should have a VAR on you and hope she does do something. You are literally incomprehensible. Where are your balls?


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## Starman

She is quitting her job because she feels she is being bullied and work and her supervisor (not her lover "boss) but more her shift boss, just a normal manager, wont deal with the problem between my wife and this other female who has got it in for my wife for no reason (my wife's words are no reason, but she could be also intimate with her boss and is jealous and knows about their catch ups, which is what I think is going on).

My wife will likely leave her job to prevent it getting back to me somehow if this other girl does know something and is waiting to pounce at the right time. Likely her manager also suspects something is going on as they joke about her and her lover boss catching up all the time.

From my experience when a female likes another person, but is keeping it secret, its the little things they say and do and how they react to certain questions that really gives it away and I think they may have confronted her about her and her lover boss's friendship and she had confirmed it and he has denied it (this happened on one occasion regarding her getting him lunch one day).

She has taken up baking heavily recently and the house is an absolute mess. She states that the house is messy so she wont invite him over and that's why he has never caught up with me (I met him once at a work Christmas party, but she has ALWAYS gone to catch up with him and never the other way around.

I have found some cash ($700 AUS) stashed in a clothes drawer of hers, and also some lingerie inside a few tissues wrapped up in her clothes drawer also, she is definitely still trying to tactfully hide things from me but given how suspicious I am of the entire thing to her face she is really not trying very hard to hide it. I honestly feel she thinks I am completely retarded or something.

In regards to my previous boss being friendly with my wife, it is without a doubt not professionally appropriate, but I am now the same rank as him, not in his chain of command (not even in the same part of the country) and I cant prove he is planning anything other than trying to make me feel bad which i'm sure is something he could talk his way out of as he is just that type of guy who is really sly and gets his way. I could most definitely shake the pot but if he knows people in the right places it might shoot me in the foot rather than help my situation.

Everything I have discussed to date is due to me seeing text messages between her, her boss, and this other guy on the side.

To sum it up:

1. She appears to be having both a physical and emotional affair with her work boss, which is causing her a lot of drama at work so she wants to quit.

2. She is having an emotional affair I feel with this other guy (I looked up the definition, it doesn't appear to take much to have an emotional affair) but then again she might just be trying to get revenge on me and sees him as an easy way to get this as he shares a mutual hatred towards me and has also said this in a message that he couldn't stand working with me.

3. I have no doubt my work will fully support me to the capacity they can, so going forward that is not of a great concern to me. It may cost me my job at the end of the day but its not something I foresee happening.


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## Chaparral

Starman said:


> Im working on the 180, slowly reducing the amount of things that may cause issues.
> 
> 10,16,18,19,26 and 30 are things I am still doing, so I think I need to back off a bit more and give her some breathing space, I have been quizzing her about everything because I am aware she is running off with this guy and I personally do want her to feel guilty as hell for it and need to make up excuses, even though I know thats not right.
> 
> Her feelings of guilt are making me feel relieved, which might not be very good but its how im coping with it at the moment. She thinks I am extremely dumb and blind to what is happening, or she knows I know and is just ignoring me and sticking around as she still gets to catch up with her new lover and have a roof over her head.
> 
> If anyone can give advice on better sleeping due to staying awake all night thinking about her messaging and catching up with him im all ears. its about the only downside for me, I am getting enough sleep but I have always been an easy sleeper and it takes me 1-3hrs each night to sleep now.


That's the price you pay for watching your wife go out to fu.ck her boyfriend with out doing a damn thing to stop it. its one thing to be blindsided, you have chosen to be a cuckhold.


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## Starman

I don't know what a VAR is, and I'm not going to reveal what branch I am in and I don't see how that is relevant to this topic anyway.

I feel its easy to say "man up" from the outside, but when someone has huge potential to cause grief and drama, I really want to talk to some lawyers first to have the upper hand. Call me weak, a wimp, a useless person, whatever, but I think knowledge is power at the end of the day in my situation, and I will be going into this separation process with the maximum amount of cards up my sleeve given she has 5 days a week to research, plan, prepare and I have maybe a few hours tops. Whatever advantages I will have early on will likely be reduced very quickly as she invests more time into trying to screw me over and using the kids against me.


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## 6301

Starman said:


> To sum it up:
> 
> 1. She appears to be having both a physical and emotional affair with her work boss, which is causing her a lot of drama at work so she wants to quit.
> 
> 2. She is having an emotional affair I feel with this other guy (I looked up the definition, it doesn't appear to take much to have an emotional affair) but then again she might just be trying to get revenge on me and sees him as an easy way to get this as he shares a mutual hatred towards me and has also said this in a message that he couldn't stand working with me.
> 
> 3. I have no doubt my work will fully support me to the capacity they can, so going forward that is not of a great concern to me. It may cost me my job at the end of the day but its not something I foresee happening.


 And number 4, your letting her do what she wants, when she wants and however she wants because you wont do anything about it. Your digging yourself a hole and that hole will be your grave unless you finally stop the nice guy routine and stand up for yourself and start blowing smoke up her back side but then it's up to you.


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## Starman

She doesn't sleep much, but it is usually self inflicted, she goes and drinks coffee/tea at 1-2 am quite regularly while she is having a smoke and out on her phone outside in the early hours of the morning.

The problem is I would never be able to get her diagnosed, she considers it extremely insulting that I would even suggest she has a problem.


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## the guy

I imagine it's hard to sleep when one has so much going on in there life. I mean a husband, a boyfriend, family, and work.

Maybe if she focused on her husaband life might be easier and she could get some sleep?

But then again you can't control her but you can control what you will put up with!

So....with that said I suggest you "just let her go" find your self then you can bring someone into your life that won't bring you so much emotional torture.


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## Starman

She will be gone, I am done with the emotional pain for far too long now. I am simply gathering enough evidence to be able to do something permanent rather than just put a thorn in her side she can annoy me for years by still trying to say I am the one with the issue. 

I will end this, it will be soon (probably next weekend if I can talk to a lawyer once or twice this week) and then I will post some updates with everyone here to let you know how I go.

If you dont hear from me, well then you know things went bad and either my timing was poor and she found out while I was alone with her and she snapped, or some kind of crazy s*^$storm is going down and Im in jail for something she has concocted up at least in the short term.

Either way, there will be an end, it will be soon and I hope I can make this a happy ending. (for me and the kids).


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## Starman

I am arranging for my mum to fly down probably Wednesday and that's the earliest I can get here down here. I am talking to someone at work on Monday who apparently has a few holiday homes nearby within 10-15 mins that I might be able to rent out for a few weeks and stay there with my mum (and kids if it goes down that path).

I cant take time off course, I wish I could explain what I am doing but If I was to take a few days off I would end up having to give up the course and wait at least 6 months to attempt it again and that's only if they are willing to let me.

This course is for a new job, with much higher pay, but a lot of stress while in training and if I can get through it with minimal disruptions then I think it will pay off in the long run for me and the kids. 

I will indeed look into what the requirements are to get my wife tested, if there is no way I can get her admitted or even assessed without her will then its a point I cant really pursue as she feels I'm the problem and I cannot change that.

My Aunty had a husband who was Bi-Polar and he took an axe and held her hostage while he smashed up the house and ended up in a Police Raid on the house and a standoff lasting several hours. I don't want to end up in this situation so I am trying my best to cover my ass here.

She could quite possibly be Bi-Polar. She has huge mood swings, but can be super affectionate and loving at many times which is why I have stuck with her for so long. She had depression after having children (both times) so thats another sign there. She has attempted suicide properly once, but twice to a minor degree (taking too many pills, etc) which was probably more of an attention seeking thing.

She tells me she was abused by her mother when she was younger, but talking to her slightly younger brother he said it wasn't that bad so I don't know who to believe there. But it could be a contributing factor to such a diagnosis.

She had several....engagements with people between 15-19 (upwards of 40+ people) and this may have been attention seeking, feelings of loneliness, or a bunch of other things which young people do).

I have always been there for her with her ups and downs, I am a very forgiving and loving partner, but this cheating has crossed the line for me and if she does have a mental condition I must play my cards very cautiously.

She certainly never looks at things rationally and that is one of the main points I have noticed over the years. I am an extremely rational thinker and she is the polar opposite to this and has very sporadic and random thought processes on how to deal with things.


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## Starman

Ok so latest update:

She rang me 15 mins ago on her way home from work and asked me:
Her: "Honestly answer this please"
Me: "Sure thing, fire away"
Her: "Do you think I'm having an affair?"
Me: "Yes, Yes I do"
Her: "Well who do you think it is with then?"
Me: Your boss (I said his name, but you get the idea)
Her "Im absolutely gutted you could even think this, we are not having an affair"
Me: "Well all the signs say you are" (I rattled off all the reasons, but did not mention the text messages exclusively yet - for a reason).
Her: "After everything I have done for you, and stood by you, even when you were catching up with your parents behind my back, you throw this at me and accuse me of this".
Me: "Well our date night isn't going to start off very well now is it?"
(Probably highly inappropriate, but I am one to joke in awkward situations even when under pressure).

Then she hangs up.

Thoughts?
Queries?

My thought here, is that in this situation (which she was super cool and calm about, actually she was "upset" that I could even suggest this about her) she will now go and seek help from her friends and family and bag me out to be the "*******" that she can spin me to be. After a day or two of this, with all her friends and close family under the belief that I have abandoned her and she is the victim, I send texts to these people with the messages between then, inform her work of the situation (maybe even confront him directly to see how he acts at work, he wouldn't dare be hostile) and then everyone will know she lied to all her close friends and family to their faces about the situation.

Tell me guys, was it stupid not to let her know exactly how I knew the affair was going on?, or is my plan actually a really good idea (in the heat of the moment) to ensure she will receive the minimal support from the people around her due to the lying cheater she is.

Obviously will get mixed opinions on this one from both sides of the fence, but more than happy to hear your thoughts.


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## Starman

The children are with her parents right now, 3.5hrs away and she wont go to grab them and her parents will 100% take my side as she has always had a love/hate relationship with them and they put up with her as I have changed her over time and shown her how you can live a happy life without being depressed and miserable all the time.

My mum can come down in a few days, and Im sure that her parents will happily continue to look after the kids for a few days longer given the situation.

The location of the house I will get my mum (and possibly children) to stay at, will be close yes, but she will not know where it is.

Training for my new job I will happily delay, I just wanted to emphasize its an extremely important part of me being able to provide for the children in the long term and a 6 month delay would really hurt me there so I am trying to keep it going.

I was actually super surprised by her lack of emotion and anger towards me over my accusations of her cheating. She still feels she has one up on me, but a huge relief has flown over me since she now knows how I feel. Moving forward one step at a time is the way right here and now.


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## Starman

No medication has been taken for many years. She did get prescribed anti-depressants with our first son, but refused to take them regularly as you need to, to ensure they do the job.

She is currently taking duramine, which has been known to have anti-depressant tendancies but she is taking it for weight loss/appetite supression, and taking in excess of 2-300% of the recommended daily dose on a regular basis now.

There is from memory 15mg and 30mg prescriptions, she takes 2-3 tablets of the 30mg a day when she doesnt have sleep, as from what im told it has similiar effects to cocaine,etc in keeping people awake, not wanting to eat, and keeping the energy levels high.


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## Starman

Could be, who knows!

Either way, im leaving the house for a bit, she is on her way home, and she is extremely cool and calm right now, extremely out of character....


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## eastsouth2000

OliviaG said:


> Good grief! Do you think this might be part of the problem??!!! Talk to a professional asap!


Seems like a drug problem. Best to wait for her and talk to her and get her to a doctor.

situation is a bit tense, best to deescalate

also do keep your self calm when talking to her.
It would be hard but keep your calm.

No shouting or Screaming or Slapping.
If she hurts you just walk away.
Best if you turn on the recorder on your phone when talking to her.


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## Starman

What bothers me the most is she is still denying the affair. 

She has rung my parents (who have seen the messages that I screen shotted) and is saying I have a problem and she isn't having an affair so she is still living in this lie even though she is crying to them and saying she loves me,etc.

I feel she might have very serious mental problems if she is indeed not feeling she has had an affair in her own mind. 

It is still plausible she hasn't had sex with the guy yet, as there has been threats of the action and her wanting to do it, but nothing to say she actually has. This may be why she feels she hasnt cheated, but if this was the case, you would think she would have at least admitted to fancying the guy, and perhaps that she kissed him or something. This would have been the perfect time for her to open up and admit she has strayed as it would have given her the best chance a marriage affair (I wont be staying with her no matter what, but she doesn't know this).

I am not revealing to her that I have these screenshots as she doesn't need to know how I found out about it, and it might help in the future for me vs her arguments either in court or mediators where she will look like a fool, but I still want to have that card up my sleeve for the appropriate time and it does not add any value to my end goal of separation between us at this time.


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## farsidejunky

Never reveal your sources. 

Starman, this is going to get weird. Remain steadfast. Continue to tell her, without explanation, your truth.

"I know you are cheating. I won't remain married to a wife who cheats on me."

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## eastsouth2000

You can tell her about (Emotional Affair) is still cheating, maybe she will admit to that.
see if she denies even that?


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## Borntohang

Starman, you're handling this brilliantly! I know the anxiety you must be feeling...But you're on the right side of this. Be strong!
Oh, GET A VAR!!


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## Chaparral

Simply tell her you have solid proof and other people know about it. Imply that you got your info from a PI. Keep a VAR on you at all times.


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## farsidejunky

Bipolar Disorder is incredibly difficult. Being married to someone who has it can be near impossible, especially when they do not adhere to their meds.

That said, I think it is absurd to characterize him as a hero for trying to carry her. This means the converse is also true, that he should be shamed for not carrying her, right?

He is not qualified to help her through this. People with PhD's struggle to properly carry folks with this mental illness through their manic phases. I have seen it first hand with a member of our church.

OP, you can point her in the direction of help. But your primary responsibility in this is to your kids and yourself at this point. 

I can't imagine the weight you are already carrying, and then have someone try to add to it by shaming you for not carrying her too.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## eastsouth2000

I second the importance that your WW needs professional help regarding the "Medications" she is taking. Before dealing with the marital issues.

She must see a psych or physician!

This is irrelevant whether you divorce her or not. She should see a doctor first.


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## Thor

Starman said:


> She will be gone, I am done with the emotional pain for far too long now. I am simply gathering enough evidence to be able to do something permanent rather than just put a thorn in her side she can annoy me for years by still trying to say I am the one with the issue.
> 
> I will end this, it will be soon (probably next weekend if I can talk to a lawyer once or twice this week) and then I will post some updates with everyone here to let you know how I go.
> 
> If you dont hear from me, well then you know things went bad and either my timing was poor and she found out while I was alone with her and she snapped, or some kind of crazy s*^$storm is going down and Im in jail for something she has concocted up at least in the short term.
> 
> Either way, there will be an end, it will be soon and I hope I can make this a happy ending. (for me and the kids).


Now is the time to be strategic. STFU about any suspicions to her. Don't talk to others about what is going on except for your most highly trusted confidants, like your brother or father. Others are likely to spread the rumors which can get back to your wife.

SInce you know what you want is to split from her, just do what the lawyer says is best to get your goals. You want the kids and you want her gone. I assume you don't want to pay any alimony. So start with those and do whatever it takes.

I don't see any reason to dig for more evidence unless your lawyer says it will be helpful. Videos of her berating the children might be the kind of evidence that would help.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, a VAR is a Voice Activated Recorder. You should have one on you whenever you may encounter her. This protects you against false accusations of violence, which a personality disordered cheater is guaranteed to make against you. It may not be legal to record without her knowledge, but I would do it anyway. The recording could save your career and keep you out of jail. Your lawyer may say not to record without her permission, but he isn't facing losing custody of his kids over a false accusation. The other tactic is to tell her you are recording all interactions, and have that on the recorder as proof of her permission. I wouldn't do that until you spring the divorce on her, though.

Strategic is the operative word now. You don't have to prove to her or anyone else she is cheating. You don't have to do anything but that which will get you to a successful divorce with custody of your kids. You can nuke her if you want, and you can probably nuke her OM boss, but don't do it unless and until it is to your advantage.


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## Thor

Argghh, just read where you've told her you suspect her of cheating with her boss. Well what's done is done.

Yes you should research the drug she's taking, but it is only the most recent contributor to a long standing personality problem. You can point her towards medical help but in the end she is who she is. All her promiscuity in her teens speaks of some significant issues. Bipolar may be it, dunno I'm not a shrink. Abusive childhood certainly does fit all that is going on.

You can be kind to her and help her get medical intervention, but in the end I don't think she is going to be substantially different than you've experienced. I wouldn't get my hopes up that she will become the loving warm wonderful wife and mother you thought she would be when you married her if she starts taking some magic pills.


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## Be smart

You worry to much about her job my friend. It is another Plan from her side. She thinks she can let this behind you and just move on like it never happend. 

You should never tell her that you know and suspecting it was her boss. She is playing the game and she will be prepared for Divorce,so that is why you need to Expose this. You are going to be bad guy at the end.

One more point - she is now blame shifting and acusing you of cheating then saying "how could you think she was cheating" while she helped you. She even forbids you too call your own parents,wtf.

You know she will never admit to having an Affair. Cheaters dont do that and especially in your wife case. Deep down you know the truth and this is not her first time. You have almost all evidence my friend,you just need to act.

First thing on Monday talk with your lawyer. She is crazy my friend. Dont forget to expose this.

Stay strong


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## Divinely Favored

Starman said:


> Could be, who knows!
> 
> Either way, im leaving the house for a bit, she is on her way home, and she is extremely cool and calm right now, extremely out of character....


Get a VAR (voice activated recorder) ASAP! Do not speak to her without one. The VAR can protect you from allegations she might try to make against you alleging domestic violence and record any possible confessions she may make inadvertently.

You ARE making copies of ALL the info/texts that have been going on between her and her f*ck buddies ....RIGHT!!!!???


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## Starman

Well everyone last night the bombshell of all bombshells was dropped.

I was at home in my room alone and she came home and went into her room. We discussed this with a military chaplain and he suggested we both stay put (which is obviously fine with me). I took precautions and put books and folders to wedge my door shut to try and prevent her coming in during the night, but she seemed fairly calm talking to the chaplain anyway so I was not too worried.

After this point, several things happened but ultimately she burst into the room and confronted me over everything, I had no-where to go and was in the corner of the room with her around me. She spent 1.5 hrs trying to get me to talk about everything and I kept refusing, only stating she should eat, sleep and we can discuss it in the morning in a better frame of mind. She told me she took 3 of the tablets for the day (not sure if i mentioned that earlier) so this may still have had an effect. As the conversation progressed and she realized she wasn't getting what she wanted, it initially started off with idle threats to contact domestic violence center to report me.

I told her she should do what she feels is best, and if contacting them is what she wants to do then go right ahead. She didn't like this result so she escalated to threatening to call the police, one again I said go ahead and she got even more frustrated. At this point i was extremely scared as I could see she was almost at boiling point and I could not diffuse the situation. The final and overall option for her was so say I raped her, I immediately was looking for weapons or anything nearby that she might try and use against me to cause me harm or herself but luckily my room is just a simple study with a bed and desk. Even at this point I still refused to discuss anything about the affair or the separation until she was in the right head space. This is when she snapped.

She then took my phone and started screaming really loudly for help so I did spend a few seconds trying to grab the phone back off her (grabbed the phone only, not her at all), but realized she had IMMENSE strength right at this point in time to the effect she was shaking and convulsing with anger. I realized the phone wasn't worth being stabbed over (it was recording the conversation, so I felt it was worth putting a small effort in to retrieve in case she tried to go further with allegations), so I grabbed my keys and bolted from the house and grabbed the home phone and rang 000 (911 for you).

The police came out and took my statement and hers, and let me go back into the house and grab a few things to go stay somewhere else for the night as I was most definitely not going to stay in the house again and giver her a second chance at me. So the police let me go after I can only assume no charges were laid or else I wouldn't have been let go and I went to stay somewhere for the night.

She is now apparently in hospital with two potential broken ribs and another minor injury and this will be a highly complex legal matter I have no doubt. Thanks for being here and giving me advice everyone, I wish this had played out a different way but my hands were tied in several occasions here and I didn't get to make this an amicable situation for us like I had hoped.


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## Uptown

Starman said:


> *She could quite possibly be Bi-Polar.*


Maybe so, Starman. I nonetheless agree with @*Thor* that the red flags you mention are more consistent with BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) than bipolar. One reason is that you seem to describe her mood changes as occurring quickly in response to some event, e.g., something you said or did. And, if I understand you correctly, her bad moods typically go away several hours later or the next day. 

In contrast, bipolar mood changes typically take two weeks to develop, then last for two weeks, and then take another several weeks to fade away. They are not triggered by events but, rather, by gradual changes in body chemistry. 

Moreover, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., suicide attempt, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, controlling behavior, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

I caution that BPD is not something a person "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," strong vindictiveness, lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

Significantly, if your W does have full-blown BPD, this would not rule out her also having bipolar because 33% of female BPDers suffer from co-occurring bipolar-1 and an additional 9% of them suffer from bipolar-2. I mention this distinction between the two disorders because, whereas _bipolar_ usually can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, _BPD_ is very difficult to treat and medications will not make a dent in it.



> *My Aunty had a husband who was Bi-Polar and he took an axe and held her hostage while he smashed up the house and ended up in a Police Raid on the house and a standoff lasting several hours.*


Violence against a spouse is strongly associated with BPD, not bipolar. Whereas the terms "anger" and "rage" appear in 3 of the 9 defining symptoms for BPD, those terms appear in NONE of the 9 defining symptoms for bipolar. The closest that those bipolar traits get to the term "rage" is the inclusion of "extreme irritability" as one of the 9 bipolar traits (see Bipolar Symptoms).

Yet, chasing one's wife with an axe and holding her hostage for hours is an example of "rage" and "violence" -- not "extreme irritability." Similarly, your W's threats to slander you and hurt you go far beyond irritability. 

If she actually is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.



> *She is a very violent and reactive person.... I have contacted police and they have written down I feel endangered and that my wife is likely to fabricate something to get her way.*


The _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at *50% of Batterers are BPDers*. Similarly, a *2008 study* and a *2012 study* find a strong association between violence and BPD. 



> *I too think she has a form of personality disorder, but it is a grey blur between 3-4 of them to be honest.*


In one respect, Starman, PDs are like potato chips: It's hard to have just one. A recent large-scale study found that the vast majority of adults having strong traits of one PD also exhibit strong traits of one or two others as well -- and, on top of that, also exhibit strong traits of one or more "clinical disorders" (e.g., depression, severe anxiety, PTSD, or bipolar). A BPDer, for example, has a 74% chance of also having at least one other PD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.



> *She tells me she was abused by her mother when she was younger.... it could be a contributing factor to such a diagnosis.*


Perhaps so. Childhood abuse or abandonment is strongly associated with BPD. Granted, most abused children grow up without developing BPD. That abuse nonetheless greatly raises the risk for doing so. It therefore is not surprising that 70% of BPDers (in the large-scale study cited above) report they had been abused or abandoned by a parent during childhood. 

This is why the onset of strong BPD traits typically starts in the early teens, as soon as young people are motivated by a hormone surge to form relationships outside the family. Bipolar, in contrast, is caused by a gradual change in body chemistry and the average age of onset is 25 (the normal range of onset is 18 to 30).



> *She threatened to* *character assassinate me and make my life hell in every way possible*.


If she is a BPDer, this vindictive behavior is to be expected. BPDers are too emotionally immature to be able to tolerate being aware of strong conflicting feelings toward another person. Hence, when a BPDer is loving you, her conscious mind is completely out of touch with her negative feelings toward you. Similarly, when she is hating you, her conscious mind is completely out of touch with her loving feelings. 

This behavior -- called "black-white thinking" -- occurs because her subconscious mind protects her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by "splitting off" the conflicting feeling, putting it entirely out of reach of the conscious mind. Like all adults, BPDers have mixed feelings toward their loved ones and other people. But they lack the emotional skills and ego strength to handle those mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and other grey areas of interpersonal relationships. 

A BPDer therefore categorizes everyone as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black). And, because her feelings of love and hate usually are still there her mind, she can flip from one feeling (loving you) to the polar opposite (hating you) in just ten seconds. This flip occurs whenever one of her two fears is triggered.

Importantly, when a BPDer splits you black, she can perceive you to be Hitler incarnate -- and will treat you accordingly. My BPDer exW, for example, had me arrested on a bogus charge of "brutalizing" her. During the three days it took for me to be arraigned before a judge and released, she obtained a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get divorced in this State). I mention this because, if your W is a BPDer, you likely will witness her doing awful things to you that you never thought was possible for her to do.



> *She is an extremely convincing person.*


BPDers tend to be very good actors. But the acting usually is done out of necessity, not from a desire to manipulate you. Because a BPDer has a fragile, unstable sense of who she is, she is attracted to a man with a strong personality, i.e., a man who can provide her with a self identity to emulate and mirror. She has to do this because, lacking a strong self identity, she needs someone who will ground her and center her. (But, of course, as soon as you do EXACTLY THAT, she will resent you because she will mistakenly interpret your stable personality and strong personal boundaries as your being "controlling."

I mention this acting ability as a way to partly explain why BPDers are so convincing when the police show up to arrest you. The main reason they are so persuasive, however, does not arise from their acting ability. Rather, it usually arises from their conviction that their distorted perception of you is absolutely true. As I noted earlier, a BPDer's subconscious will work 24/7 to protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. One way it accomplishes this feat is by projecting all hurtful thoughts and painful feelings onto YOU. 

The result is that -- at a conscious level -- the BPDer is fully convinced that the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth are true. My exW, for example, very likely believed that I had "brutalized" her the day the police showed up to arrest me. Of course, the beauty of projection as an ego defense is that -- unlike lying -- it is absolutely _guilt free_. This, then, is the main reason that a BPDer often can look you right in the eye and make the most absurd claim -- all without blushing or blinking an eye. While she's saying it, she typically believes she is speaking the truth. And, a week or two later, when she's saying the exact opposite, she likely will believe that nonsense is true too.



> *My wife has fabricated lies in her everyday life to get what she wants.... just a history of lie making when she is put in tight situations as it is always the easiest way out.*


Likewise, my BPDer exW would tell lies when she found herself painted into a corner with no other way to avoid experiencing terrible guilt. Because BPDers carry enormous guilt and shame from childhood, the last thing they want to do is to add any more guilt to that heavy burden. 

Yet, if your W really is a BPDer, I suspect that most of what you perceive to be "lies" were actually projections (which she did subconsciously). In my experience, it was virtually impossible to tell the difference between my exW's lies and projections. I would have driven myself crazy if I had tried.



> *She certainly never looks at things rationally and that is one of the main points I have noticed over the years.*


If she is a BPDer, that statement is untrue. The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning people who "look at things rationally" all day long at work. As long as they are interacting with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers, they can be very rational. The reason is that NONE of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy that can cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment.

This is why most BPDers can be generous and considerate all day long to patients, clients, business colleagues, and complete strangers -- but will go home at night to verbally abuse the very people who love them. And this is why many high functioning BPDers are able to excel as accountants, professors, nurses, psychologists, lawyers, and professional actors. Yet, as soon as one of those clients or colleagues makes the mistake of drawing close as a best friend or lover, he will start triggering her two fears. The result is that she will experience feelings so intense that she will be absolutely convinced they MUST be true. 

In this way, the intense feelings she experiences around loved ones will be accepted as self-evident "facts." Like a young child, an untreated BPDer does not have the emotional skills to intellectually challenge those intense feelings. Instead, she accepts them as an accurate portrayal of her reality.



> *She only sees the children as pawns to use against me.*


This likely is a behavior called "triangulation." If she is a BPDer, she will be jealous of your closeness to your own children because it will trigger her abandonment fear. My exW, for example, was jealous of my closeness to my foster son, whom she hated. Indeed, she was even jealous of my closeness to her own five adult children (my step children). She therefore would sometimes play us off against each other by creating trouble that might impair our connections to each other, thus forcing us to rely more heavily on her. 

Alternatively, if you decide your W does not have strong BPD traits, you likely are seeing her efforts at simple revenge. Moreover, if _"she only sees the children as pawns"_ is meant to imply she does not love her own children, you are not describing a BPD trait. BPDers generally love their own children very much (albeit in the immature way children are able to love). A lack of love for one's own children would be a strong warning sign for narcissism or sociopathy -- not for BPD or bipolar. Yet, given your other statements about her sometimes being very loving, I doubt you meant to imply she doesn't love your children.



> *I want to ensure my children don't get hurt in this as much as possible.*


Toward that end, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your two children are dealing with. Significantly, bipolar can be passed to the children genetically. Similarly, BPD can be passed on through a combination of genetics and childhood neglect or abandonment. Granted, most children of bipolar and/or BPD sufferers do NOT develop the disorder. There nonetheless is a greatly increased risk of doing so.

I therefore suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you learn how to spot the warning signs for both disorders. An easy place to start is my post at* 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences*, which is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW). 

If your W actually does have strong traits of one of these disorders, I hope @*OliviaG* is correct about it being _bipolar-1_ -- which usually is far easier to treat than is BPD. As I noted above, most bipolar-1 sufferers can be treated quite successfully by simply swallowing a pill that restores balance to their body chemistry.

Yet, if you decide it is my description of _BPD traits_ that rings many bells, I would suggest you also read my list of_* 18 BPD Warning Signs*_ and my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join *Thor*, *OliviaG*, and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Starman.


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## eastsouth2000

you did have a recorder on you?
broken ribs how?

how did she get your phone?
and you let the one thing go that could have saved you the legal troubles.
the recordings

not worth getting stabbed? did she have a knife?

did you get your phone back when the cops arrive?
you can still recover it if she deleted the recording


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## sparrow555

Starman said:


> I don't know what a VAR is, and I'm not going to reveal what branch I am in and I don't see how that is relevant to this topic anyway.
> 
> I feel its easy to say "man up" from the outside, but when someone has huge potential to cause grief and drama, I really want to talk to some lawyers first to have the upper hand. Call me weak, a wimp, a useless person, whatever, but I think knowledge is power at the end of the day in my situation, and I will be going into this separation process with the maximum amount of cards up my sleeve given she has 5 days a week to research, plan, prepare and I have maybe a few hours tops. Whatever advantages I will have early on will likely be reduced very quickly as she invests more time into trying to screw me over and using the kids against me.


 It is very hard to keep emotions in control in a situation like yours and I think you are doing exceedingly well. 

Atleast better than 95% of the crowd that post here for help. Maybe it is your job and training that helps


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## Starman

sparrow555 said:


> It is very hard to keep emotions in control in a situation like yours and I think you are doing exceedingly well.
> 
> At least better than 95% of the crowd that post here for help. Maybe it is your job and training that helps


I think perhaps a combination of being a very positive person in general, my military training, also training as a supervisor and roughly 5 years of verbal abuse from my wife on a daily basis has made me into who I am today. I still feel sick in the stomach about a lot of things, but I can internalize things very easily and then find a physical way to deal with the issue such as fitness, go watch a movie, play video games etc.



eastsouth2000 said:


> you did have a recorder on you?
> broken ribs how?
> 
> how did she get your phone?
> and you let the one thing go that could have saved you the legal troubles.
> the recordings
> 
> not worth getting stabbed? did she have a knife?
> 
> did you get your phone back when the cops arrive?
> you can still recover it if she deleted the recording


1. I had a recorder on me (mobile phone)
2. She told them I jumped on her chest and used my body weight to crush her (Im about 68kg, not exactly a heavyweight, nor did I actually do it anyway)
3. I didn't get go of the phone, she lunged at me and grabbed it off me, it was 1130 at night and I was extremely tired and just wanted her to leave the room.
4. She didn't have a knife, but the kitchen was only 2m away from where we were and she did chase me through the house, I didn't look back to see what she grabbed as we ran through the kitchen.
5. I did eventually get my phone back, she did surrender it over to police after they chatted with her for 15-20 mins. She vomited everywhere though due to how worked up she had gotten herself so its got quite a nasty smell to it currently :/



> A BPDer therefore categorizes everyone as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black). And, because her feelings of love and hate usually are still there her mind, she can flip from one feeling (loving you) to the polar opposite (hating you) in just ten seconds. This flip occurs whenever one of her two fears is triggered.


She was almost always one or the other, very rarely in between. For some reason Friday afternoons was always a really bad day for her, and Ive never really been able to figure out why. Obviously the main direct link is the start of the weekend, but i'm not sure if its because i'm around the house and she couldn't stand me or whether it meant that me being around could result in her being upset, so in turn she was upset with me before I even caused any issues.



> Because a BPDer has a fragile, unstable sense of who she is, she is attracted to a man with a strong personality, i.e., a man who can provide her with a self identity to emulate and mirror. She has to do this because, lacking a strong self identity, she needs someone who will ground her and center her. (But, of course, as soon as you do EXACTLY THAT, she will resent you because she will mistakenly interpret your stable personality and strong personal boundaries as your being "controlling."


I know exactly what you mean by this, for sooo, sooo long now she has told me to "man up" in regards to certain things in the relationship, and I have kept pushing her to be more independent and make decisions for herself and the kids. On odd occasions where I take the reins and make a decision she is not happy with, I will be smashed for being controlling or just arrogant (she calls me arrogant alot but I feel sometimes I needed to pretend I was so I could get through the abuse). Right until the end of the relationship, she told me I was the manipulator and the controller in the relationship, despite every single time I tried to end the relationship, she would make my life hell and not just move on to make herself happy. 



> The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning people who "look at things rationally" all day long at work. As long as they are interacting with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers, they can be very rational.


I always thought she was not thinking rationally, but perhaps that was more just directly to me in our discussions as I am a very analytical thinker and couldn't comprehend her thought process on alot of the topics we debated/argued about over the years. But she was always extremely well mannered to everyone else in life and only got nasty when she felt threatened by people who either had influence over her or saw her for who she was and tried to avoid her or talk poorly about her (she has lost MANY friends over the years with nasty endings). Quite often I would get her to contact people on the phone because she was far better at it than me, I would state the problem, ask for a solution then get told no, or later, depending on whatever service I was inquiring into, where she would always have a way with words (Im willing to leave out the good looks for now but obviously that can play a part in both negotiating with males in a positive way and for females in a negative way) and she would get whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted. Unfortunately with me, I wouldnt budge! Early on in our relationship she used sex to get what she wanted, and as a young male and her being my first real partner in life, I really didnt have a problem with this nor saw it as something bad, but now in hindsight this kind of person that used it so regularly to get what she wanted (engaged to me and move in with me) is probably one of the first warning signs.



> If she is a BPDer, she will be jealous of your closeness to your own children because it will trigger her abandonment fear.


She is extremely jealous of my relationship with my son (6), the oldest of the two, due to the fact that I don't yell at him very often (of course 5 year old kids get in trouble on the odd occasion, but I always held back a lot due to the amount he got yelled at by his mother for such small petty things.) She hated the fact that she couldn't control her emotions and that her 5 year old son couldn't keep his room tidy, put his dirty clothes away, clean his own dishes up, write the alphabet the way she wanted it, remember all the sounds and words required he learned at school that day and do all those things just because she told him to do them. My son cries at everything now, even if I say to him "Alright buddy, time for bed now" He will burst into tears and think he has done something wrong and will be cuddling me saying "sorry daddy, I didn't mean it" even though he was just watching TV or something like that with not actually stuffing something up or forgetting something. She quite often told me to take her side on things I felt were far too harsh a punishment towards the children and said I was causing them not to listen to her by overruling her. Things like "That little c*&t of a child cant even write his own name, I've told him a thousand times how to do it" and I would simply remind her that repetition and positive reinforcement is the way to get children to want to learn, let alone write their own name.



> A lack of love for one's own children would be a strong warning sign for narcissism or sociopathy -- not for BPD or bipolar. Yet, given your other statements about her sometimes being very loving, I doubt you meant to imply she doesn't love your children.


I have often thought of her as a narcissist, but based on my comments you could probably agree its difficult to pin it down to anything specific without me providing a hell of a lot more information on her personality,etc. I feel she will shower the children with love now in the short term as she wont want to be judged as the crazy mum or the unfit mother, or the psycho mother with issues, those kids are going to see more of their mother in a positive light in the next month then they probably have in their entire lives.

Thanks for all the help guys, the feedback has been amazing and Its really helped to know I'm not going crazy and my decisions have been rational (as best I can anyway).


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## sparrow555

> She is extremely jealous of my relationship with my son (6), the oldest of the two, due to the fact that I don't yell at him very often (of course 5 year old kids get in trouble on the odd occasion, but I always held back a lot due to the amount he got yelled at by his mother for such small petty things.) She hated the fact that she couldn't control her emotions and that her 5 year old son couldn't keep his room tidy, put his dirty clothes away, clean his own dishes up, write the alphabet the way she wanted it, remember all the sounds and words required he learned at school that day and do all those things just because she told him to do them. My son cries at everything now, even if I say to him "Alright buddy, time for bed now" He will burst into tears and think he has done something wrong and will be cuddling me saying "sorry daddy, I didn't mean it" even though he was just watching TV or something like that with not actually stuffing something up or forgetting something. She quite often told me to take her side on things I felt were far too harsh a punishment towards the children and said I was causing them not to listen to her by overruling her. Things like "That little c*&t of a child cant even write his own name, I've told him a thousand times how to do it" and I would simply remind her that repetition and positive reinforcement is the way to get children to want to learn, let alone write their own name.



This broke my heart.. This might fall into the child abuse category but I am not sure. Maybe someone with relevant experience can chip in here ? maybe the word c*&t isn;t as offensive in Australia but what a horrible thing to call a child.


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## Marc878

If you were smart you'd have her committed to a psychiatric ward. Like yesterday !!!!!!!!

As a father you should protect your children at all costs.

What are you going to do about this??????


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## OldWolf57

Ok, you was doing good, but somewhere along the way, you must have stop reading.

Example: She has a PUBLIC RECORD of trying to take her own life.
You know your son is not safe around her. 
You know you are not safe around her.
You know she is abusing meds, and is very unstable.

Still you took no action to have this woman committed.
On top of that, your kids are at her mercy, while you ran,
after talking about doing all this for them.

NOW PAY ATTENTION !!!

Here in the U.S. you, a Doc., or the cops can have a person committed for 72 hrs.

You are playing a dangerous game with your kids life being so damn scared.
The minute she threatened you with a false charge, was the time to push her out the room and call the cops.

This is NOT a f%cking drill, this is your kids life !!!!

Grow a pair, yeah I said it, and protect those kids like you ran to protect yourself.

Get your butt to the cops and have her committed while she is in the hospital now.

You have enough evidence with the texts and her PUBLIC RECORD !!!


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## OldWolf57

I can't tell you how pissed I am at you right now, but I'll give you this lil gem.

She told you she took 3 pills.
She's in the hospital.
They have to take BLOOD to treat her.

Do I have to make the case for you. Ok.
Have the hospital screen what she has taken, and how much from that blood.
Use that to commit her.

Hopefully she didn't delete you recording.

Since you seem to be a paperpusher instead of a grunt, MAYBE you can get this right this time.


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## Starman

She left hospital a few hours after she went in, from what I tell from my parents (who talked to her while she was in there) she got x rays and her ribs were fine, and she got an ultrasound to inspect for another internal injury and nothing was found there. She left hospital and since I'm yet to receive a phone call i'm assuming nothing else was said. I dont know what hospital and if I asked them to take blood samples of her im sure they were well within their right to say no anyway.

My children are currently safe with her parents 3 hrs away, whom I trust (they would disown her before me, I guarantee it) so I cant do much about that at the moment.

Im not quite sure if you realize what kind of person I am having to deal with here. In Australia mothers are given a huge advantage in any law decision and fathers are regularly screwed over every day.

I cant just get her admitted, and she would just play it cool anyway and say make me out to be the bad guy somehow.

I will be talking to lawyers on Monday and some other support agencies to see where my options are in regards to getting her assessed and what legal right I have to put her under some kind of review.

Even if she didn't report it officially to the police that I did things to her, I have a recording and that might be enough for a review.

She did threaten me with a false charge, and I did call the cops and told them what had happened, they assessed it as a no deal as she didn't apply charges so they just saw it as a heated argument.

It is extremely difficult to get anyone admitted to a psychiatric ward without physical evidence, it was my word vs hers, I only had a bruise and a grazed knee, and after waiting 10 mins for the cops to rock up, she had stopped throwing up and had time to gather herself and make it out to be all my fault. The cops did tell me though that she was just very confused about the whole situation. My sister's mother in law is a psychiatrist and my parents talked to her and she said it will get alot worse before it gets better if she does have BPD.

I do honestly think though that she will not harm the kids at all, she has too much to lose and she will be far more loving to those kids than they have ever seen in their life. The children dont provide a threat to her in this situation, if anything they give her an advantage over me in the long run so she wont be stupid and treat them poorly and I 100% believe this.


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## JohnA

Will not harm the kids ? Why does your son cry and say "I'm sorry daddy" when asked to go to bed??? 

They aiready are harmed.


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## Augusto

Starman said:


> What bothers me the most is she is still denying the affair.
> 
> She has rung my parents (who have seen the messages that I screen shotted) and is saying I have a problem and she isn't having an affair so she is still living in this lie even though she is crying to them and saying she loves me,etc.
> 
> I feel she might have very serious mental problems if she is indeed not feeling she has had an affair in her own mind.
> 
> It is still plausible she hasn't had sex with the guy yet, as there has been threats of the action and her wanting to do it, but nothing to say she actually has. This may be why she feels she hasnt cheated, but if this was the case, you would think she would have at least admitted to fancying the guy, and perhaps that she kissed him or something. This would have been the perfect time for her to open up and admit she has strayed as it would have given her the best chance a marriage affair (I wont be staying with her no matter what, but she doesn't know this).
> 
> I am not revealing to her that I have these screenshots as she doesn't need to know how I found out about it, and it might help in the future for me vs her arguments either in court or mediators where she will look like a fool, but I still want to have that card up my sleeve for the appropriate time and it does not add any value to my end goal of separation between us at this time.


It sounds like you do not want to fix the problem. You not telling her and showing her she has been lying to you is a sign that you do not want to save anything. Yes she is causing this. But you letting her lie does not help the situation. If you really want to be in control, you show her what you know and it immediately empowers you and out you in the full drivers seat. Until then you just keep going in these circles.


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## OldWolf57

Committed NOT admitted.
OK see the lawyer, and play the recording for him.

At that time, you TELL him what you want, and see how he say's it can be done.

You are her legal husband.
There is no filings of a D as of yet.
So, it shouldn't be seen as the action of a rejected husband, if you ask the court to have her eval'ed.
You are just a hard working father concerned about your wife recent behaviour.
Especially in view of her past mental instability.

you for some reason can't seem to grasp the obvious.

There is a record of her attempt to take her own life.
There is now a record of YOU calling the cops on her.
You have a recording of her threats.
Your lawyer can ask the court for her hospital record.
Your lawyer can ask to have her blood tested, that was taken while she was there.
You have PROOF you need a protection order against her.

Now, as for as her hurting the kids.
You think screaming at a 5 yr old don't hurt him?
You think verbal abuse don't hurt ???
She don't have to put her hands on him to hurt him.
She has screwed him up enough all freaking ready.
Can you imagine the emotional and mental abuse this child will suffer once she see you have rejected her.
You say she is already resentful of your closeness.

As for the system, it's the same here.
AND, as for unstable, hell that's my middle name.
My surroundings growing up was toxic.
Am I sane,, no, I blend in with only surface feelings.

Look, I know you carrying a heavy load with job, school and this crap, but there come a time, when you have to get down in the dirt and play dirty.

This is that time. AND dirt wash off.


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## Starman

I will be informing her I have read her messages so she can no longer continue the denial and move forward (with a third party present).

As to the kids, I have no-where to take them, she is at the house and it would only stress them out in the short term. I will get my kids back, and I will do it as soon as physically possible. I will fight to the full extent of the law to get my children out of the toxic environment as fast as I can but I have to be very careful about how I do it. Its obviously the weekend so I haven't been able to seek legal advice until Monday and once that happens I will be able to find out my rights and options and go from there.

My kids mean the world to me, but I still feel the decisions I have made so far are the best for them, yes they may have to spend a few extra days with an angry mum, but I think she will love them to the point they will be sick of it so she wont be judged poorly. If I'm near my wife, she will likely snap again and I certainly don't want the children to have to see that.

Is it worth starting to cut things off such as private health, phone contracts, etc for her? Or could this be looked at as trying to ruin her? Im after advice here of where to go forward and if people could give me a slight break based on the decisions I've made it would be nice as Im doing what I can. My children were not in the house at the time this all happened, I got them 3 hrs away with her parents, probably the safest place in the world they could be given the situation, before I approached my separation with my wife. 

If I have it my way, she can spew as much crap about me to the children she wants, but my son will always know who she is deep down, and if anyone ever asks him who he wants to be with, he will prefer to be with me. But I feel as he is 5 and almost 6, they will likely not ask his opinion as they will see him to be too young?

Thanks for the feedback once again, obviously a lot of passionate people on here with different views, but I am trying to handle this the best way I see it at the time, and I have many factors over years of experience of dealing with her that I also put into play when factoring my decisions and moving forward.

I predicted she would fabricate something. (rape/assault)
I predicted she would attempt self harm (ribs/internal injuries)
I predicted she would snap after going really quiet.
I predicted she would attempt to discuss things when I blocked my door.

So far I've done alot of thinking prior to my actions, and have been able to prevent (for most times) the actions from being a lot more damaging or long term than previously possible.


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## eastsouth2000

I Suggest you contact that pastor or your family each day! Just to confide with them how your feeling!

You are not alone in facing these trials and problems.
many a great crisis happens in life, things we can not control that. But what we can control is how it affects us.

Remember these rainy days did not come to stay, they came to pass.

It will get better!
~Stay Strong!


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## Uptown

Starman said:


> I cant just get her admitted, and she would just play it cool anyway and say make me out to be the bad guy somehow.


Yes, if she is a BPDer, she can be throwing a temper tantrum for 3 hours and -- as soon as the police knock on the door -- flip in 10 seconds to being the "poor little victim" or the "calmest person you ever saw." Although BPDers lack the skill to control their emotions, those emotions will respond vastly different to various triggers (e.g., presence of police versus presence of "evil husband").



> It is extremely difficult to get anyone admitted to a psychiatric ward without physical evidence, it was my word vs hers


As you've seen, persuading her to ADMIT herself to the hospital means she can simply walk out whenever she chooses. And you are correct that persuading a court to COMMIT a BPDer can be extremely difficult because psychologists generally are loath to diagnose anyone as a BPDer. I discuss several reasons for that withholding of information at *Loath to Diagnose*. 

Granted, your courts likely are committing BPDers nearly every day to psychiatric hospitals. Those BPDers, however, are the very low functioning folks who are in such enormous pain that they are cutting their arms or threatening/attempting suicide. If your W actually is a BPDer, she almost certainly is NOT low functioning. If she were, you would not have gone on a second date with her, much less married her.

Hence, the route that many spouses have had success with -- when fighting a BPDer for child custody -- is to have their attorney present evidence (audio or video) to the CPS that child abuse seems to be occurring. This forces the CPS into ordering both the H and W to submit to evaluation by a psychologist who -- regardless of whether he ever uses the term "BPD" or not -- will likely recommend primary custody (if not full custody) to the parent who is not abusing the child on that audio recording. Forcing CPS to have both of you evaluated is far easier than persuading a court to commit your spouse. I therefore suggest you discuss this approach with your attorney tomorrow.



> Even if she didn't report it officially to the police that I did things to her, I have a recording and that might be enough for a review.


Yes, it may be sufficient to force CPS into ordering a psychiatric evaluation.



> In Australia mothers are given a huge advantage in any law decision and fathers are regularly screwed over every day.


You're preaching to the choir. As @*OldWolf57 *said, men have the same problem here in the USA.



> I will be informing her I have read her messages.


Unlike *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/members/oldwolf57.html*OldWolf, I advise against doing this yet. If your W is a BPDer, you have nothing to gain from revealing the extent of your knowledge to her -- and you may be giving away an important strategic advantage (as could occur when CPS and the evaluating psychologist find out she has been lying to them). I therefore suggest you wait one more day to find out what your attorney recommends that you do with this information. He/she may recommend that you sit tight on this evidence until your W has already lied about her "innocent, platonic relationship" in the CPS legal record.



> She did threaten me with a false charge.


It is for moments like this that @*Idyit* and @*Marc878* urged you to record all phone calls and carry a VAR in your pocket while in your W's presence. Similarly, @*turnera* recommended _"VARs in her car and in the bedroom. Camera in the house."_



> I do honestly think though that she will not harm the kids at all, she has too much to lose and she will be far more loving to those kids than they have ever seen in their life.


Perhaps so. You are in the best position to know what is in the best interests of your own children. But please drop the "she will do no harm" language. It sends chills up our backs like finger nails on a blackboard. 

One way a BPDer parent passes the disorder onto her child is to invalidate his feelings, e.g., telling him to stop crying or whining because he has no right to be feeling that way. It is important that children be taught that all their feelings are valid and must be managed. The parents role, then, is to validate those feelings and teach the child emotional skills for managing his own feelings. One such skill is how to do self soothing. Another is how to intellectually challenge those intense feelings to decide whether they accurately reflect reality.


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## Thor

#1 Priority: Your kids. Do whatever is necessary to protect them from her. Your son is already harmed. He needs to be seeing a therapist asap. Do not let your wife near the kids unless the law requires it. Talk to your lawyer about how to do this legally. If the kids are in the house with her, put a hidden video camera or several in the house. They make ones that look like a smoke detector, stuffed animal, clock radio, wall clock, etc. Put one in the kids' rooms and one in the living room or play room where your wife would interact with them.

#2 Priority: Your personal health and security. This means carrying a VAR on you at all times. Not just the phone but a VAR with a removable memory chip. Back it up to at least 2 places, both password secure. One offsite such as in the cloud. It also means putting a deadbolt on your bedroom door if you're in the same house. And be aware when you're not at home. If she goes off the deep end she could attack you anywhere.

#3 Priority: Getting the best possible custody outcome in divorce. Talk to your lawyer. I think you should demand full custody and that she only have supervised visits with the kids due to her abusive behavior towards them. Talk to your lawyer about what kind of evidence you need. Video of her berating the kids may be the kind of thing you need.

Sorry you're in this sh!t storm right now. Do whatever you have to do to protect yourself and your kids. You know the courts and police aren't going to be on your side, so don't go into this trying to be fair, nice, or non-confrontational.


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## Thor

Don't tell her anything. Go dark dark dark on her. She has no need to know whatever evidence you may have or how you got it.


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## turnera

Try to get cameras in the house to record what she does with the kids when you aren't home. Use hidden cameras that don't look like cameras and choose ones that feed the data over wifi to your email. Keep a copy somewhere outside the home.


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## OldWolf57

S, I forgot in my anger your in/laws had the kids.

I also apologize for my tone. Hurting kids, physically or verbally is a trigger for me.

I know you have boots on the ground, and think you are doing as much as you can, so I was just trying to get you to see it from the outside.

Starman, never give her your info as Thor, and Uptown said.
Stop worrying about her admitting to the affair. It makes it sound as if you are looking for a reason to stay with that psycho. 
We have BS's here who WS NEVER admitted even with evidence in their face.
So you can expect the same of her.

Take today as needed to decompress.
So stay out of her face as much as you can.
For as of now, you only talk to her about the kids.
No relationship, no separation, no D.
Only about the kids.

I felt you when you wrote you was leaving the house after her call.
You have boots on the ground my man, but you are so decent you won't fight dirty.
Well, in this you may have to.
So hold your cards close to your chest.

God Bless and take care of yourself.


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## Marc878

You their father are their only hope. These are innocent defenseless children.

You know the predicament.


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## Be smart

Ohh my friend this is getting even worse. I am really sorry for you.

What you need to do is protect your kids and yourself. Dont think that she is not capable of hurting you. 

Buy some VARs and put them in your house,just for safety reasons,because she will once again tell the story how you hurt her,hit her and stuff like that.

Tomorrow is working day,so go and talk with your lawyer. Ask him about Divorce and try to find some help for kids. 

Stay strong.


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## Starman

In regards to her medication, I am booked in to see her doctor who prescribes her this medication (Duramine 30mg) on a monthly basis. He always checks with her (I've been to a few appts with her) to make sure she has had no mood swings, etc as its a side effect of the medication. I will be informing him that she has been overdosing on this medication and that she has had excessive mood swings both recently and in the past. This particular medication she is on, is an addictive drug, and is only meant to be administered for a maximum of 3 months at a time as an appetite suppressant. she has been taking this for about 12-18 months now and this could very well be affecting her view of reality/etc and explain a lot of things, but the abuse happened before that so don't be fooled into thinking i'm running back to her if she stops taking a tablet a day.

The doctor may very well freak out as he is not really meant to give her the drug, but there was overwhelming positives in her eyes and she had to go to 10-12 doctors to finally get someone to prescribe it to her. At the very least it will be flagged and she may find it EXTREMELY difficult to get hold of it again but I cant promise she wont get more. It might work in my favour and perhaps I can suggest (only suggest, obviously I cant force him to do anything about it) that she gets screened by a professional before he continues to provide her with more of the drug. It might actually work in my favour as she may go and get tested just in order to continue getting the drug and from there I can only hope they diagnose her, but I still feel with how manipulating and clever she can be that she will talk her way through it all and come out as clean at the other end.

She lives in the house now with the kids, and I am on base for a few weeks at the moment, I had to at first ensure I had somewhere to sleep at night that was safe, so now I can try and save my kids or at least go down the painfully slow and expensive way of custody,etc.

If she comes out as cleared by a test though, she will have either full rights to the kids, or at least 50% regardless of how much I fight with the courts. I can try and get a voice recorder inside the house, but its hard when she works only two days a week so my choices are limited for getting recorders in there, not being noticed and also getting them back out again. Does anyone know how long these things last for? If its at least a week of recordings then perhaps its not too bad, I can sneak in there during my 1-2 free hours a week when she is at work and im not at work and put in/take out and go from there.

I honestly do feel though she will care for those kids more than she has ever in her life as this is what has happened last time we separated (last time we did work things out though, at least in the short term) she felt that I was going to label her as a bad mother and she actually spent a lot of time with the kids reading books, learning with them etc, and was overall a very lovely mother (I was staying in the spare room in the house, so I did see what she was doing on a daily basis). But as some of you said, things might be different when I am not around and I should try to get whatever I can on her, whenever I can.

Several specialists have recommended I do not talk to her for between 2-4 weeks. Obviously in regards to the children this is a long time for me to go without seeing them so I'm not sure what I am going to do. Prior to us having issues, she would take the kids to school/daycare and pick them up everyday due to my work hours so them being with her is probably best for their daily routine at least in that instance alone. I need to find out from her whether she will allow me to have the children for at least 90 days a year (im then entitled to keep a roof over their heads) or whether she is going to fight every step of the way and ill have to fight for a day here and there. I will contact lawyers tomorrow, my work has given me a day off to try and get some stuff sorted and hopefully I can get some answers or at least a start (Im sure the lawyers will give a carrot dangling in front of me to come back!)


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## Starman

Apart from seeing her doctor and a lawyer, anyone else have advice on where to go from here?

I have strong feelings to tell anyone who she knows about the affair, I know this might not be the best thing moving forward as I still have to be amicable with her in regards to the children, but I just have an overwhelming urge to let everyone know what she did to me, as she has always bagged me out our entire relationship that I have put her down in front of other people and this really upset me over the years as I never felt I did that. I guess I just want to get even and actually bag her out to all her friends and family to show her what bagging her out and shaming her really is like, and its alot more damaging than whatever she has made up over the years about me.


The main thing for me is I just keep thinking about it, I am so overwhelmed with emotions (certainly not thinking of repairing the marriage) and revenge in the form of letting everyone know is where my thoughts keep heading. 

I rang her father tonight to ensure she had picked up the kids and everything was alright, he told me I had stepped over the line and I decided to tell him about the affair she had. He said he wasnt sure what to believe (but hey, who wouldnt believe their own child really at the end of the day?) as she told him I put her in hospital (even though she was cleared from hospital almost as fast as she got in there).

I guess she got a few hours with them and was able to spin up a good story of how terrible a person I am. Oh well, sure I dont have their support but I felt I should have been the better person when I decided not to tell them about the affair when I did know about it as they were looking after the kids and had to talk to her. No great loss not getting their support, but I guess im just a little disapointed after years of us having a rough relationship and her accusing her mother of abuse at childhood that they took her story as gospel and didnt even want a bar of my story at all.

I hope everyones having a good day, I have a big one tomorrow and plenty of things to try and deal with.


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## Uptown

Starman said:


> Apart from seeing her doctor and a lawyer, anyone else have advice on where to go from here?


Starman, if most of the 18 BPD Warning Signs sound very familiar, I would recommend the book, *Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder*. It is written by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. (The latter wrote the best-selling BPD book, _*Stop Walking on Eggshells*_.) 

For good online articles written by professionals, I would suggest you read Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD (Article 9) and Leaving a Partner with BPD (Article 10). Both are available for free at the BPDfamily forum. 

While you're there at BPDfamily, I would suggest you participate (or at least lurk) at the *"Leaving"* board and the *"Parenting after the Split"* board. Also good are these articles: Fathers Divorcing, and High Risk Parenting, and Pain of Breaking Up, and Divorcing a Narcissist. 

Finally, if you believe your W likely exhibits strong BPD traits, I recommend you DO NOT try to persuade her of that. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly would project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist and let him decide what to tell her.


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## G.J.

why didn't you have a VAR on you ?

Haven't read the entire thread..sorry but I'm sure people would have told you to get one

Going forward make sure you carry it on you at all times ready to be used when you know she's going to be around


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## Starman

I did have a VAR on me and I recorded the whole thing about the night she accused me of several things, but the first minute or two of the conversation where she said that it wasnt picking up her voice as she was too far away.

This drug she is on is only for appetite supressant, and she has lost plenty of weight, so I had no reason to doubt its effectiveness, she had mood swings well before this drug was even on the scene so im not sure how you think this is my fault? This drug is a basic drug and the effects are not known to be intense, and as I said earlier, the deceit was happening long before she was taking this so it might have not affected her at all! I certainly didnt agree with her taking more than 1 per day as was her prescription, but I am trying to right the wrong by contacting her doctor to let him know of the situation.

I found out today as well from one of her old friends (alot are coming out to support me now) that she indeed hooked up with her ex in my house one day, and also kissed MY boss at work and he was visiting my house when I was at work.

Im sorry Olivia im not sure where I went wrong here, but I am happy to take on thoughts and see where I have made a mistake. I dont want revenge to be honest, but its just how I was feeling on that particular day, ive had alot of emotions going back and forth and just at that time I really wanted to deal with it that way but I slept on it and im fine now.

This is such a mess, after all these years I cant believe I was so blind. I gave her so much trust and she has abused it so many times and I just didnt see it. I guess because she was so honest about catching up with these people that I felt she was telling me what happened, but I guess she was just giving me the half truths incase I ever found out about it from another source.

Thanks for your help everyone so far.


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## OldWolf57

Starman, didn't I read that she has been like this your whole marriage ???

So, was she taking those drugs then ??

If not, then she is just another mindless, selfish cheater. Who throw in a slap every no and then, when you don't toe the line.

Let no one make you feel guilty.
You didn't prescribe the drug, and she won't or hasn't listened to you your whole marriage.
You ran from your house to avoid her after the call.
You ran to keep her from attacking you the other night, still some blame you.

Also, if you had asked, we would have told you after your brag about her parents.
Blood is thicker my man, 

Exposing,, do it. You already have another place to stay, so she can't attack you while you sleep.
Just never be alone with her afterwards, and let all communication be email and text, so you have backup proof.
Bp or not, YOU know how she can convince.
So act accordingly.


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## JohnA

Wait a second are you actually in the military? Your commanding officer enter your home and kiss her ?


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## bandit.45

You didn't do anything wrong... There are some posters here on TAM that go off half ****ed, overreach, and fail to follow my example. They don't know how to be diplomatic and gentle like I am. Just let the harsh posts roll off your back. 

Your WW is doing all the usual lying and blame shifting. She is following the cheater script to a T.


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## OldWolf57

Wait, is that the old sgt, or your command now ??


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## Space Mountain

Starman,

Regardless of what other posters have said, I don't see how you can shoulder the blame for what a doctor prescribes your wife. You are soldier not a medical professional. The doctor is the one that is trained healthcare and his treatment falls on him and him alone. If I am sick I go see a doctor. If I need legal advice I go see a lawyer. If my house is on fire I call a fireman. If I want to sell or buy a house I talk to a realtor. I don't make a habit of trying to second guessing someone's area of expertise. You get my point.

From what it sounds like, she has had problems long before the appetite suppressant. Protect yourself. Take care and good luck.


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## Space Mountain

Starman,

As a side note, I have been on phentermine for 2 years. Phentermine is the same as duromine. I have had no side effects other than a suppressed appetite. No mood swings or etc. I do only take what is prescribed.


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## JohnA

StarMan, I would take OliviaG comment as asking you to consider if a co-dependance issue in your relationship exist. Tone aside it is a valid point. What have you read about "tough Love" concept in regards to alcoholics and addicts? @Uptown, points out BPD is a scale of traits all of us have. Those with BPD they have many/all of these traits that are over the top. 

If you take the view this drug takes her from a 7 to a 10 plus you need to get the drug out of her life or her out of your life the children's life. Not to do so is a failure on your part at this time. Her choice of actions at this is on her and the doctor not you. What you do today and tomorrow is on you. 

You need to expose what is going on. Follow the reasons and guidelines at this link Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


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## eastsouth2000

OliviaG said:


> It doesn't matter that the purpose of her taking the drug was as an appetite suppressant. You have a wife with a mental health history and that drug has mental health implications. You knew that: *you had to go to 12 doctors before you found one that would prescribe it*. Then, the drug is only supposed to be used for a short period, but your wife has been using it for ~ a year. And taking more of it than she should. *You and her doctor have been allowing this to continue.*
> 
> Worst of all, now *you are not getting her the help she needs *because you are worried about covering your @ss (and the doctor's) re: the drug use.
> 
> What is it that you're confused about regarding what you should be doing?


huh?
he said she "possibly" went to 12 doctors to get it ( NO he did not get the diet pill for her)
he said he booked an appointment to see the doctor who prescribed it and get help through that doctor.
through the doctor will then recommend therapist to check if she has mental problems.

he is very busy with demanding Work,Plus Studies & dealing with this.

what?
Oliviag 
why are you saying he is not doing anything?
why are you blaming him for something his wife has done?


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## eastsouth2000

Starman hopefully you have talked to her doctor about the her drug problem and her probable mental state?

But what I can also suggest is that you contact her parents and inform them of her problem maybe they can convince her.

You are not responsible for everything that happens in her life.


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## OldWolf57

I've worked with women taking diet pills. One minute they down, take a pill, 5 minutes later, they manic.
Never seen one attack anyone, but you can see the effect.


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## Be smart

I searched and asked one of the Doctors about this drug and this is crap my friend. 

This drug have nothing to do with her behaviour and her actions. 

Prepare yourself because there will be anther problem called "mid life crisis". 


Btw. how are you doing my friend ?


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## sparrow555

OliviaG said:


> So you are complicit in her drug use, and so is her doctor. I wondered if that was the case but gave you the benefit of the doubt. Well that explains one he!! of a lot.
> 
> *Since this is an anonymous forum and I want to be as helpful as possible to you,* I'll just come right out and tell you that this news sickens me. I now see the entire situation in a different light.
> 
> Your wife is a victim here. You may have grown to hate her because of her behaviour, but what you don't see is that you had a hand in bringing about her behaviour. It's disgusting, to be frank. You need to work your @ss off now to right this, for your children's sake. And then, yes, walk away from your wife. It's probably best for her sake too.
> 
> You want revenge on her, huh? SERIOUSLY?! That shows a lot of character. Not in a good way.



lol...


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## Starman

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Drug is gone now anyway, i doubt it would affect her but I saw her doctor and he wont be prescribing it any longer, he told me he was going to cancel it anyway but was not aware of the mood swings that was going on with her and he certainly doesn't want risk it even if its a nothing drug.

I had the kids on the weekend, we had a verbal agreement I would pick them up on Friday and return them on Sunday. I even told her I was staying in a hotel in the city so I could have the kids as I cannot have them on base. She agreed to this, but tried to stall me taking them as she said she had prepared bags for them for the weekend, then when I arrived she had done nothing, so she forced me to stay in the house and pack the kids bags. She kept asking me questions as to what I was getting up to, stating if I wanted to be amicable she needed to know what I was getting up to. In nice words I told her to get stuffed and continued packing and eventually got enough to look after the kids for a couple of days.

That night she rings up at 9:30 at night (my kids are very young) and says she wants to say goodnight to them, even though its been only 4 hrs and she is missing them. I ignore the call as its always a ploy to get me on the phone and obviously the kids are in bed already asleep and should not be woken.

Turns out in the morning, I have the police from missing persons unit contacting me stating they need to sight the children (in Australia, you do not need to wait 24hrs to put a report in) so I had police coming for me and military police wondering where I was. Once the police turned up at the hotel (where I said I would be the whole time anyway) they saw the kids, said that stuff happens all the time and then left.

I am kinda stuck now in this position where having the kids really allows her to screw around with me, and I cant push for an assessment of her, so Im stuck in an awkward position here.

Also found out on the weekend she hooked up with another guy 2 years ago because he gave her attention and this was from someone who saw it not just heard it from her or someone else.

Her little honest period meant she revealed she had slept with her boss, which I did not know for sure, but she also said nothing happened between her and her ex (which another source close to her denies and has evidence), so even though she is appearing to be honest, she is still lying to my face. This woman knows no limits to manipulation, deceit and ruthlessness......


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## jsmart

Damn that is infuriating. The freaking courts are so stacked against men. It the reason more and more woman act out this way. No repercussions. All rights with no responsibilities or accountability. 

There are also to many thirsty men willing to pursue married mothers because married men have been so beaten down. We're afraid to stand up for ourselves. In a just society, you would be able to drop someone that fvkcs another man's wife and mother of his kids.


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## BobSimmons

Starman said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone.
> 
> Drug is gone now anyway, i doubt it would affect her but I saw her doctor and he wont be prescribing it any longer, he told me he was going to cancel it anyway but was not aware of the mood swings that was going on with her and he certainly doesn't want risk it even if its a nothing drug.
> 
> I had the kids on the weekend, we had a verbal agreement I would pick them up on Friday and return them on Sunday. I even told her I was staying in a hotel in the city so I could have the kids as I cannot have them on base. She agreed to this, but tried to stall me taking them as she said she had prepared bags for them for the weekend, then when I arrived she had done nothing, so she forced me to stay in the house and pack the kids bags. She kept asking me questions as to what I was getting up to, stating if I wanted to be amicable she needed to know what I was getting up to. In nice words I told her to get stuffed and continued packing and eventually got enough to look after the kids for a couple of days.
> 
> That night she rings up at 9:30 at night (my kids are very young) and says she wants to say goodnight to them, even though its been only 4 hrs and she is missing them. I ignore the call as its always a ploy to get me on the phone and obviously the kids are in bed already asleep and should not be woken.
> 
> Turns out in the morning, I have the police from missing persons unit contacting me stating they need to sight the children (in Australia, you do not need to wait 24hrs to put a report in) so I had police coming for me and military police wondering where I was. Once the police turned up at the hotel (where I said I would be the whole time anyway) they saw the kids, said that stuff happens all the time and then left.
> 
> I am kinda stuck now in this position where having the kids really allows her to screw around with me, and I cant push for an assessment of her, so Im stuck in an awkward position here.
> 
> Also found out on the weekend she hooked up with another guy 2 years ago because he gave her attention and this was from someone who saw it not just heard it from her or someone else.
> 
> Her little honest period meant she revealed she had slept with her boss, which I did not know for sure, but she also said nothing happened between her and her ex (which another source close to her denies and has evidence), so even though she is appearing to be honest, she is still lying to my face. This woman knows no limits to manipulation, deceit and ruthlessness......


Are you recording and writing down everything?

So she says she's going to pack some bags. Record that and when you get to the house and nothing is packed, again record it, write it down, document it.

Same goes for calls, with written, recorded or video evidence you can easily show the police, indeed you could file a charge with the courts to show them she's harassing you.

Stop getting drawn into her crazy because she can easily set you up and seriously mess with your life. Be smart, keep collecting intel


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## OldWolf57

Go read the 180. Practice It. Live it !!!

I think Ele Girl or Chap has a link.

By now the only thing you need to talk to her about is the kids or finances.

You have even more proof she is a cheater, and a violent lying one, so torturing yourself hearing the details, is just you being co-dependent.
It's time for you to start working on you separating emotionally from her.


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## turnera

You need to get a bound journal and start recording daily any and all interactions with her. It's possible that the court may look at it and see her pattern of screwing with you and make things go your way.


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## eastsouth2000

starmann keep focusing on you!
when things are in place and you feel your ready, proceed with the divorce.

but what ever the case focus on you.
keep working keep studying for your career. this is for you and for your kids.

most if not all of us encounter great crisis in our lives. we always come out stronger.
it part of our journey.


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## Thor

Use this list as a start to get ideas on what and how to document everything. THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum


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## bandit.45

BobSimmons said:


> Are you recording and writing down everything?
> 
> So she says she's going to pack some bags. Record that and when you get to the house and nothing is packed, again record it, write it down, document it.
> 
> Same goes for calls, with written, recorded or video evidence you can easily show the police, indeed you could file a charge with the courts to show them she's harassing you.
> 
> Stop getting drawn into her crazy because she can easily set you up and seriously mess with your life. Be smart, keep collecting intel


None of this is going to help him. He lives in the Commonwealth. He's fvcked. Fathers in Oz, NZ and Britain have no rights whatsoever. None. And it pisses me off that the men in those nations have done nothing about it. They ought to be going Guy Faulks on every Parliment in those nations.


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## Starman

As mentioned I have very little rights. She is allowed to leave the state and move elsewhere and there is nothing I can do about it without spending over $5,000 aus to get her back, it would cost her merely $200 in petrol to drive across the border and stay with friends.

Im not even allowed to see the children because she is far to temperamental and I have heard she is trying to set me up, so being alone with her is out of the question. 

The only one benefit I have is that my house is provided by the military, so regardless of her right to live there, if I am not entitled to the house anymore she cannot stay there. As it turns out, I have to be out in two weeks as I no longer am supporting the children (she put in paperwork to the government for assistance). So she has basically shot herself in the foot so to speak in regards to she has forced herself to find somewhere to live in 14 days and I didnt do a think to start that.

I wanted to see the children, and she said she would put an AVO (some form of protection order) against me so I couldnt be near her, thus near the children by default.

I had the children on the weekend, we both verbally agreed I would have them, I took them from friday to sunday as I stated, and even told her I would be in a hotel in the city. I did everything 100% to plan and she rang the police and put in a missing childrens report less than 12hrs after I had taken the children and I had the police contacting me trying to find me and also military police as she had told them I had attempted to go AWOL. Police came and saw me and the kids, did absolutely nothing as no court orders are in place for the children, so it made her look bad but its still a huge stuff around for no reason.

Thanks for the support everyone, I am reporting everything and recording all our phone conversations where possible. Hopefully she will be exposed for the lying, backstabbing, vindictive person she is during mediation.


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## farsidejunky

Document everything. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## turnera

Surely there is SOMEplace you can borrow the money you need to protect your rights to your children before she ruins it for the rest of their childhood. If there was ONE time you need to go into debt, this is it.


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## Popcorn2015

Did you expose to her family and the wives/gf of her other men yet?


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## ConanHub

No law against making a documentary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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