# confused with no physical proof



## TyRed (Nov 4, 2013)

Over the past week I've been in a really strange place. I found out my wife has been chatting with "an old friend" the past few months after I go to work. Now that alone wasn't cause for concern, I'm a pretty self confidant guy. But a week ago she had to go out of town to handle a legal matter and when i confronted her about the phone calls and the guy she admitted that he lived close to where she had traveled too and that she went to see him. She assured me nothing happened,if that's so why lie about it,why hide this relationship if its so innocent? I am just really at my wits end here!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Start investigating by installing a keylogger on her PC/cell phone and a VAR in her car. If anything is going on, it will usually reap dividends!

But be as discreet as possible. If not, you will drive her affair underground where you may not be able to recover any viable evidence against her!*


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Trust your gut... You already know the answer don't you?

Sorry man your wife is having an affair. There is only ONE reason she would lie about going to a guy's house. It was to have sex. It looks like it went from an emotional affair to a physical one.

Go underground and gather evidence. Don't tell her what your doing. Plant a voice activated recorder in her car and in the house where she makes phone calls. Put a keylogger on the computer. Get software to download deleted texts from her cellphone. 

Only when you get the smoking gun confront her. Not before. Then decide whether you want a divorce or reconciliation.

If you want the divorce let her stay in fantasyland with this guy as long as possible. You're more likely to come out with what you want. Then expose later. If you want to reconcile then expose the affair immediately (once you obtain the proof) to everyone you possibly can to try to snap her out of it. Either choice you make slap her with divorce papers to send a message. You can cancel it later. 

Good luck.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

OK you have Red Flags. You probably confronted your wife to soon. You need to look for a few other things. Is her phone locked? Does she carry it everywhere including the bathroom? Do you have access to her facebook, email accounts? This is a big one. Has sex picked up or dropped off lately?


I would do some checking. She should now that seeing an old boyfriend and not telling you is crossing a line. I hope you are wrong but chatting when you are gone. By the way how did you find that out? Are kids grown, midlife crisis?


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Demand a polygraph!!! And follow through with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

TyRed, you've got some great advice about accumulating evidence. I agree with the others, this doesn't look good. After you find out exactly what's going on with your wife, before you confront her, come here for advice on how to go about that. This forum is filled with experts who will guide you along. It's very easy to go about it wrong when you have no experience with this stuff.

Even though this is earth-shattering stuff you're dealing with, don't ever cry, beg or plead with your wife. (it comes across as pathetic and unattractive to her) Be confident, firm and strong. Be the kind of guy who doesn't tolerate another guy in his marriage.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Try to find out as much as you can about her out of town friend. But don't do it by asking her anything or letting on that you're doing so. 

I agree that there are enough red flags for concern. I agree with the keylogger idea. Placing a VAR in her car is also a good tool to get some idea of what's actually going on. 

Don't act moody or glum around her. Let her think all is fine and keep investigating. At this point you don't have enough and she is not likely to be truthful. 

Have you two been okay lately? No changes in her behavior toward you? 

Does she do GNOs often or at all?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Ty I know arbitrators advice sounds overboard.... but trust us it isn't. Just do it quickly. Pretend everything is hunky dory. Don't bring up the OM. You need to know what is going on first. IF it turns out that she hasn't done anything physical then this is probably just an EA. Which is just as bad as a PA but generally not as much of a deal breaker. If you had caught this before she met the OM I'd say stop her from going. Now I would say you need to make sure that she isn't doing anything other than meeting him for coffee.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Tie up loose ends financially. Prepare.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

She went to see him and nothing happened?

Sorry polygraph.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

1. Don't confront your wife any more about this. Go stealth.
2. Like the advice above, VAR in her car, keylogger.
3. Do you have access to her FB, email accounts? If so, without her knowing check these.
4. Don't waste your time or money on a polygraph. They are ineffective and can cause more issues then they are worth.
5. Time to go stealth.

WTH would a married woman go to an "old friends" and not tell you. I bet you that if you did this she would be all over it.

There is more to this. Sorry you are here.


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## TyRed (Nov 4, 2013)

I found out with a tape recorder. I overheard part of a conversation between them. The tone of the call didn't sound "friend like". We are both in our 30's, sex hasn't decreased, kids are pre teen. Always made sure our channels of communication are open and told her if she ever wanted out all she had to do was say so. which makes the lies just to much to take.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

TyRed said:


> Over the past week I've been in a really strange place. I found out my wife has been chatting with "an old friend" the past few months after I go to work. Now that alone wasn't cause for concern, I'm a pretty self confidant guy.


Was she chatting on the phone? Or texts? Facebook? And how often? It doesn't matter how confident you are, if her chats with him are a regular, everyday thing, it's a cause for concern. You have no idea how fast this stuff escalates.....well you're starting to get the idea now.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

She lied to you and there's a reason for it. Now, you know she's been chatting with this guy and then you find out that while she's out of town on business she meets up with him. 

IMO, Drop the hammer on her. She's a married woman and if she claims that nothing happened, then ask why she lied. 

Let her know that if you start lying then there is no trust and no trust can destroy a marriage. 

Now you can play dumb and let het continue her charade with this guy but where will you draw the line? She met him once already and you don't know that anything happened except what she told you and remember she lied. 

If it was me, I would put her ass on notice that there will be no more contact with this guy and you will check her computer and phone. If she deletes anything or hides anything then you'll take that as her continuing her lying and there will be consequences . If she gives you nonsense about it, then you know she has something to hide and let her know that she has to bear that cross because you don't trust her. Don't give her wiggle room so she can talk her way out of it. She's old enough to know that a married woman doesn't lie to her husband about meeting up with a old boyfriend. If she doesn't understand it, then she will now.


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## Bamzor (Aug 15, 2012)

TyRed that being a "self confidant guy" is actually your weakness. It opened the door for what is happening. We understand the shock and how could she? thoughts... Listen everyone posting on here has a story... As far as catching her...well anyone of us would have said something. Confrontation is different for all of us depending on when, what, and where. If you want to gather more...yes get quiet about it..listen to the advice given on how. Otherwise get counseling to help wrap your head around this so you can make an informed decision. 
Their is a small chance she is telling the truth, but more than likely it was more. No matter it was inappropriate. Your wife is no doubt having an EA and you should be every bit concerned about a PA with the meeting.

Does she know about the tape recorder?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

TyRed said:


> ... told her if she ever wanted out all she had to do was say so. which makes the lies just to much to take.


That's the thing. She may 'just' want to have a little fun on the side. Especially if she's being hit on by this 'old friend'. I doubt she has any intention of leaving you any time soon. It may be in the back of her mind but not a priority ATM.

He's got her brain chemicals pumping and that causes her to rationalize her actions and attitude. 

Don't force her to go further underground by confronting too soon. Again, do a thorough check on this dude's background and current status. i.e. is he married; marital history; job status... 

Does your wife work?


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Thorburn is right. Keep quiet about her behavior. Pretend like you believe her word.

Is she a SAHM? Does she work?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

6301 said:


> If it was me, I would put her ass on notice that there will be no more contact with this guy and* you will check her computer and phone. *If she deletes anything or hides anything then you'll take that as her continuing her lying and there will be consequences .


No, never announce that you're going to check her computer and phone BEFORE you actually check her computer and phone. That's when the affair goes underground, making it harder to find the truth.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

TyRed said:


> I found out with a tape recorder. I overheard part of a conversation between them. The tone of the call didn't sound "friend like". We are both in our 30's, sex hasn't decreased, kids are pre teen. Always made sure our channels of communication are open and told her if she ever wanted out all she had to do was say so. which makes the lies just to much to take.


OK so if you used a tape recorder then you had other red flags. Tell us what has been happening that made you go down this path already?

Have you checked her phone records. VAR recorders in the car and or in the bedroom may pick up more. Did you tell her about the tape recording? I hope not. Try to keep things calm with her while you do your research. I am sorry you are here and had the need to find a site like this one. Good luck


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

There is a reason why she lied to you and I think you know this. How would your wife be feeling if the roles had been reversed? Do you honestly think after all of her cozy conversations with her former boyfriend that she went to visit him to play checkers? Clearly there is a reason that she lied to you. She has broken your trust. I would suggest that she regain your trust by taking a polygraph which costs about $500. My guess is that she will confess prior if she is forced to take one.


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

Seems the "jury" are in on this one. If there is an "innocence" they it should be open and infront of you. If shes just chatting, texting fb'ing this guy then why is there are need to hide any of it, especially when she knows your not going to burst in i.e. You just left for work. Going out of town on a legal matter, isnt this type of thing you dicuss between you as a couple? Most if not all would have to talk about these things unless the legal matter is part of their job and they cannot talk about it. 

Coincidence , this meting for the legal issue was very near the guy shes chatting to. Sadly she may suspect that youve an idea something untoward is afoot and she may start going dark on you. As suggested you may have to start with loking for indications like cell hiding etc. Get to the cell bills asap and note the calls and text trend. Its not costly and its something that any can be done without raising suspicion as can putting a good key logger on all computers so that you can just check. 
Even if you get your hands on the cell phone and check when texts may have been sent in your company they may have been deleted PDQ after so clocking the bill against instances is a guide.

VARs are useful but be aware, you may hear something that really guts you. Be prepared for this to happne.
Hide any evidence you discover, even photographing text messages if you can catch them. That way youll have the thread without having to write it down or try to send it to yourself as that is going to take time to do and delete after.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

bryanp said:


> There is a reason why she lied to you and I think you know this. How would your wife be feeling if the roles had been reversed? *Do you honestly think after all of her cozy conversations with her former boyfriend that she went to visit him to play checkers?* Clearly there is a reason that she lied to you. She has broken your trust. I would suggest that she regain your trust by taking a polygraph which costs about $500. My guess is that she will confess prior if she is forced to take one.


Couldn't help but remember a poster from last week (in the mirror) whose wife went to OM's house to "play board games" for four hours on two nights. I guess the popularity of board games is increasing. Gonna check the stock market on Mattel.


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## TyRed (Nov 4, 2013)

Calls and text and and i don't know exactly how long. Until after the phone recording i had no idea about this guy. Which was another big red flag. How do you have a friend that your husband has never heard of? But she is just so adamant that she only wants to be with me and that she's never cheated and so on. I'm sure that's what every cheater says. I just don't know where to go from here.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

TyRed said:


> But a week ago she had to go out of town to handle a legal matter and when i confronted her about the phone calls and the guy she admitted that he lived close to where she had traveled too and that she went to see him.


 Discuss the legal matter in detail with her and look to see if she needed to really go out of town to address it. My guess is that if there even was a legal matter, it did not need to be addressed in person, and that she used this as an excuse to see the other man. Also, if she spent the night out of town, was spending the night necessary for the legal matter, or could it have been done on a day trip if she did not see the other man. If the answer is that she went on the trip or spent the night when she did not really have to for the legal matter, then that would be hard evidence that the trip was just cover for her to see the other man in secret, and that would in and of itself be crossing the line. She secretly saw another man (OM) that is not a friend of the marraige behind your back. Any reasonable spouse would find her action suspicious and inappropriate. 

A date is two people of the opposite sex spending time together in an attempt to get to know each other better on a personal level. Sex is not required to call it a date, as sex is often not a part of early dating. Regardless if it went physical or not, your wife's visit with this OM was a date. That is why she tried to keep it a secret from you. Going on dates allows people to shop for a new mate; that is why married people are not allowed to date.

Demand full no contact (NC) with the OM going forward, and demand mutual full transpancy that includes both of you sharing all passwords without complaint. Also tell her not to delete any form of communications from the other man and insist that she share with you past communications she had with the OM. If she is not willing to do this, then you must be willing to take strong action including a willingness to divorce. She may call your bluff on this, so be willing to really do this as you can always change your mind if she takes action to change your mind. If she is willing to let you divorce her over not going NC with the OM, or her not willing to give you transparency, then she does not value you or your marraige, and your marraige is not worth the paper that it was written on.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Ty

You got the skinny now. She's not gonna fess up to anything. And fact is, she could be telling the truth. It would shock the hell otta most of us if she is - but it's not out of the realm. 

Now, it IS more likely that she's either planning on carrying on or has actually started something with the old bf. And since she went to see him - it's very likely that she's started already. 

She is very likely to put things on hold since you confronted her. It's imperative that you VAR the car asap - since it'll likely take a few days for the bf to actually cool it with her and it is more likely that they will continue to communicate secretly (if in fact something is going on).

Play it cool but keep vigilant. I take it you've been married about 7 years?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

TyRed said:


> Calls and text and and i don't know exactly how long. Until after the phone recording i had no idea about this guy. Which was another big red flag. How do you have a friend that your husband has never heard of? But she is just so adamant that she only wants to be with me and that she's never cheated and so on. I'm sure that's what every cheater says. I just don't know where to go from here.


Depending on what kind of a phone you have, you might be able to retrieve deleted texts. The content of the text messages might reveal what she did with this guy when visiting.

What kind of stuff did you hear on the phone recording? If it was sex talk, then yeah, she and the guy fooked when she met him.


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## TyRed (Nov 4, 2013)

I only became concerned because of the of how the trip went, I knew she went out when she said she was going to bed. That's what got my attention. I really thought I was just being paranoid until I heard the recording. I didn't tell her about the tape recorder, she just knows i heard something i deemed inappropriate and that i know his name.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

TyRed said:


> I only became concerned because of the of how the trip went, I knew she went out when she said she was going to bed. That's what got my attention. I really thought I was just being paranoid until I heard the recording. I didn't tell her about the tape recorder, she just knows i heard something i deemed inappropriate and that i know his name.


Well, you may have startled the hell out of her by telling her as much as you did. Especially if their connection was of recent vintage and not ongoing for a few months. 

Did she get defensive? What was her reason for seeing him? Did her relatives know she met him? 

Evidently she went to see him after she told you she was going to bed - meaning she saw him late at night - not a good sign. If she was just 'catching up' why not at a coffee shop during the day or at her relatives home? 

Very fishy. Something was def going on and you have every right to be suspicious and vigilant.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

She is already in the affair fog.

File for divorce, and respect yourself. She has no respect for you.


She is lying and cheating on you.

Has she had him over to your house?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Is he an old boyfriend, or just someone she has known for a while? What is their connection (work, school)?

Look at the credit card bills carefully for anything suspicious. Victoria's Secret, bars, gifts, web site subscriptions (dating), etc.

Also, search her stuff secretly when you can. Look in her car for odd trash such as condom wrappers, receipts from places which don't make sense, a secret cell phone, clothing, etc. Look in all the little compartments including spare tire and jack, under the seats, etc. Search her dresser for new lingerie, sexy underwear, or other romantic/sexy stuff which you are not aware of.

Look in her suitcase and carefully search all the little pockets.

If you can do it, search her purse. Women can sense when stuff isn't where they left it, so be methodical and careful.

Review phone records and text history. Go back a year and look at trends. Did her texting suddenly spike when this guy showed up? Is there a number which shows up regularly on her voice calls? You may have to pay to get a reverse phone number look up, the free sites don't really do anything.

STFU and don't give any indication you are suspicious. You need a few days at least to gather some intel before deciding what to do.

Never ever reveal your sources if you do get anything. And trust your gut.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I say surprise her with a polygraph test instead of hanging in limbo.

The fact she kept this secret says it all.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Let me see
She hid this "friendship" from you. 
She lied about going to bed and went out with him instead. 
You caught inappropriate conversations on a voice recorder. 

Sorry but cheaters lie the asses off. It goes with the lifestyle choices. Maybe she is on the front end of the affair. Maybe not. 

At a minimum. Var her car and keylog the pc while you gather evidence. She will quickly learn how to take it underground. You need to do these things fast and never reveal your source if information. 

It is hard when it is happening to you to see it. But read the first three lines of this response and try think what advice you would give someone else in the same position. 

Do you really think it was chance that her legal matter happened to be near him and that she hid everything from you? 

Be prepared for more revelations. She will try trickle truthing 

If there was nothing to hide you would have known about it on the front end. 

Shop around for polygraphs. Be prepared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> Thorburn is right. Keep quiet about her behavior. Pretend like you believe her word.
> 
> Is she a SAHM? Does she work?



IMO, this is good advice, if you want proof needed to divorce her. 

If you want her back, IMO, you need to end this ASAP. 

Exposure to his wife or girlfriend. Exposure to her. 

Ask her to do a poly. 

As someone else mentioned, her brain chemistry and hormones are pumping. 

Best to shut this down before those feelings become too entrenched. 

Women, when hit with these chemicals tend to think they are in love. The love thing, is due to chemistry, hormones and shame. She needs to think she is in love to be able to justify cheating. 

She most likely is not in love.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

TyRed said:


> Calls and text and and i don't know exactly how long. Until after the phone recording i had no idea about this guy. Which was another big red flag. How do you have a friend that your husband has never heard of? But she is just so adamant that she only wants to be with me and that she's never cheated and so on. I'm sure that's what every cheater says. I just don't know where to go from here.



My affair partner did and is doing the same to her husband. She has him totally fooled and totally wrapped. He still believes her spin that we only went for coffee. 

In reality, she is looking to trade him out for what in her mind is an upgraded husband. 

She was the aggressor in the affair, and she is and was an experienced serial cheater. 

My wife found emails she sent me that were instructing me on how to cheat without getting caught. She is amazingly experienced at it. 

I am glad my wife found them, too. They proved that I had not prior cheat.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> She is already in the affair fog.
> 
> File for divorce, and respect yourself. She has no respect for you.
> 
> ...


woah dude, what are you reading from a script? He just come aboard, telling him to file for divorce is a bit much


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Find out if this guy is married or has a girlfriend.

Put a var in her car.

I'm not crazy about polygraphs, but usually the threat of one you may get the "parking lot confession"


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

TyRed said:


> Calls and text and and i don't know exactly how long. Until after the phone recording i had no idea about this guy. Which was another big red flag. How do you have a friend that your husband has never heard of? But she is just so adamant that she only wants to be with me and that she's never cheated and so on. I'm sure that's what every cheater says. I just don't know where to go from here.


Did you ask her to see the texts?


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

TyRed said:


> I only became concerned because of the of how the trip went, I knew she went out when she said she was going to bed. That's what got my attention. I really thought I was just being paranoid until I heard the recording. I didn't tell her about the tape recorder, she just knows i heard something i deemed inappropriate and that i know his name.


What did you hear on the recording? What kind of real evidence of their relationship was on there?


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Might have missed the answer completely and sorry if I did, but why did you have a voice recorder going in the first place?

Were there other signs that started all this monitoring before the phone conversation?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Noble1 said:


> Might have missed the answer completely and sorry if I did, but why did you have a voice recorder going in the first place?
> 
> Were there other signs that started all this monitoring before the phone conversation?


That's what I was wondering. He's vague about all of this. More details would be helpful.


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