# Do men love more deeply than women?



## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

Or is it vice versa? 

I have begun to think about this after seeing stats that show women initiate divorce 90% of the time. I have also seen quotes like ""Marry a man who loves you more than you love him." said by women. Its seems to me the general consensus among women is that it's better if the man loves her more deeply than vice versa.

And if one thinks about relationships in general and how they are started it's usually the man who initiates contact, does the "pursuing", establishes a relationship, proposes etc etc. Its usually the man who does romantic gestures for the woman.

And also, this might be a silly example but in songs, books, poetry and so on. It's usually the woman who is the centre of attention and the one who recieves love. Male singers often sing about a particular woman and how they love her and stuff like that. Female singers usually sing about themselves, they rarely focus on the guy and if they do it's in a negative way.

It's just seems to me like men do the loving and women love to get loved.

On the other hands it's usually said that women are more nurturing and caring. And that they are usually the ones who get too attached and so on. But I don't know... to me it looks like the other way around when I look at relationship dynamics.

What do you think?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Read Song of Songs/ Song of Solomon in the bible.

That lady loves very deep.

I think you just might be referring to current cultural trends.

Most people do tend to be selfish, male or female. You are simply seeing women taking advantage of the current culture. Men do it too.
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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> *Read Song of Songs/ Song of Solomon in the bible.
> 
> That lady loves very deep.
> *
> ...


True, but do we actually know if it was a woman who wrote any of it? It might all have been written by a man.

It seems to me that men often want women to love as strongly as they do or want sex as much as they do, so they fantasize and like to think that women have the same view on love and sex as they do... When in reality it might be completley different.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

That book had both male and female authorship. I do believe there is an understanding gap between the sexes. 

My wife experiences differing levels of love and romance than me. But she loves me very deeply. I am maybe more romantic but this woman had just given birth to our second son moment before I got there and despite all her pain her first words to me as I entered the room were "I'm sorry!". She was far more concerned that I missed the birth than for herself. That is love.
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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Strip the love stuff out of it and look at the bare essentials. If we were in hunter-gatherer times the men were physically stronger and the women needed to stay close to the children, so he would go out and hunt and she would stay close to home doing the rest of the stuff that had to be done, like looking after children, preparing food etc. Does this man love that woman more than she loves him? How could you even judge that? Maybe because he had to make all the effort to go out and find her and take her from the bosom of her family, you could say he loved her more, he put more effort into initiating the relationship. No, not really, it's just the way things were done, actions created out of necessity.

Now we're slowly moving beyond about 200,000yrs of ingrained behaviour patterns where the men are no longer *always* expected to be the ones to go out and find the woman and win her. I think that old brain part of us still plays a huge part in our everyday thinking and it takes concerted effort to overrule it.

Now, as for 'general consensus' among women, I've never heard that before in my life (or maybe never paid it any attention) and I'm a woman. Find a man who loves you more than you love him? Not something I fantasized about to be honest. If you want to look for evidence for your theory, I'm sure you could find plenty, then someone who wanted to prove the opposite could come along and find plenty to support their theory and you'd both be left scratching your heads, or trying to find holes in each other's 'evidence'.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you're right, OP. I think a man's love is often deeper, and truer, at least at the beginning.

I think that a woman can learn to love a man, but I think a man needs to feel it from the beginning in order for the relationship to get off the ground. If his heart is not in it from the get-go, I'm not sure how faithful he will be, nor how hard he will work at the marriage.

I think it's wise for a woman to go with a man who really wants her. But she still needs to vet him carefully. She needs to make sure he is stable.

Women take a lot of risk when they get married and have children. A stable, devoted partner will mitigate that risk.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I think you're right, OP. I think a man's love is often deeper, and truer, at least at the beginning.
> 
> I think that a woman can learn to love a man, but I think a man needs to feel it from the beginning in order for the relationship to get off the ground. If his heart is not in it from the get-go, I'm not sure how faithful he will be, nor how hard he will work at the marriage.
> 
> ...


I think very much like you JLD - on this one ...

Speaking of myself here...being the sensitive Romantic I was .... wanting a Family of my own...

. I wanted a man WHO sought after ME.. feeling his heart was solely into ME and only me...How I met him so darn young.. I'll never know..but he captured my heart...He was INTO ME more than I was into him.. but he grew on me and something in me knew I'd never find another like him.. 

I do not believe it is wise to chase a man (unless you are just looking for sex that is)....I'm just old Fashioned like that.. and he was old fashioned too, feeling the man needs to make his intentions known if the girl is available. 

I wouldn't want to take that delight of a man's authentic interest away from "my experience" .. I had crushes on a # of boys in high school... but NONE ever knew.. because in my world... I wanted him to come after me / *ask me* to be his girl.... just as my Husband did, within a week after our meeting.... fast worker there!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I will say this. I was certain about Mrs. Conan the first week of our relationship. She took a little more time to make up her mind about me.
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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> He was INTO ME more than I was into him.. but he grew on me and something in me knew I'd never find another like him..
> 
> I do not believe it is wise to chase a man (unless you are just looking for sex that is)....I'm just old Fashioned like that.. and he was old fashioned too, feeling the man needs to make his intentions known if the girl is available.
> 
> I wanted him to come after me / *ask me* to be his girl.... just as my Husband did, within a week after our meeting.... fast worker there!


I totally agree with you, SA. We may be the two most old-fashioned ladies on TAM in this respect. 

I did not know my husband was interested in me before he told me. And I did not have those in love feelings. I just trusted and respected him. I still do. 

I think it is risky to chase a man. I know that is controversial, but there it is. I am afraid that the girls who go to all that work will have to do it the whole length of the relationship. And if they are okay with it, that is fine. But it looks risky to me. 

Lol, I sound like I am 80.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

jld said:


> I think you're right, OP. I think a man's love is often deeper, and truer, at least at the beginning.
> 
> I think that a woman can learn to love a man, but I think a man needs to feel it from the beginning in order for the relationship to get off the ground. If his heart is not in it from the get-go, I'm not sure how faithful he will be, nor how hard he will work at the marriage.
> 
> ...


I agree with jld, and I think that's the reason our behaviours developed the way they did (survival).

Just to add to that thought, 'love' I think encompasses our very primitive survival needs. We like to romanticize it a bit to explain all the chemistry and old brain activity which isn't really all that romantic, but at the end of the day, you have to remember that while we are human, we're just another animal on this planet. You don't have to *be* your inner animal, just acknowledge that it plays a part too.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You are right, breeze, about the "inner animal." 

I used to feel really guilty about wanting to be dominated, not just mentally and emotionally, but also physically, by my husband. It is so against societal conditioning.

But one day, he said to me, "J, we are _animals. _Humans are _animals."_

I thought about that. It seemed like that helped make it okay somehow. It made me feel less guilty for going against the conditioning.

And _he_ certainly not did not have any guilty feelings about _his_ inner animal.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I will just add my perspective as well. I believe in animal passion but I don't believe we are animals. I believe we are spiritual creatures that can choose to rule and use our more base attributes.
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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

jld said:


> I totally agree with you, SA. We may be the two most old-fashioned ladies on TAM in this respect.
> 
> I did not know my husband was interested in me before he told me. And I did not have those in love feelings. I just trusted and respected him. I still do.
> 
> ...


But this is usually what it's like for men.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> I will just add my perspective as well. I believe in animal passion but I don't believe we are animals. I believe we are spiritual creatures that can choose to rule and use our more base attributes.


I agree, just slightly different approaches I think. I believe we are evolved animals, and now have the ability to choose and analyse our behaviour. If there is no analysis, then the animal is in control, whether it's acknowledged or not.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Moops said:


> I have begun to think about this after seeing stats that show women initiate divorce 90% of the time.


 ,,, and 
,,,



jld said:


> I think it's wise for a woman to go with a man who really wants her. But she still needs to vet him carefully. She needs to make sure he is stable.
> 
> Women take a lot of risk when they get married and have children. A stable, devoted partner will mitigate that risk.


Pretty interesting.

I've said elsewhere here that women, by nature and necessity are choosier, or more selective than males.

If they're ticking off 'requirements', yet initiating 9 out of 10 divorces, does that mean that, for all their selectivity, they're ultimately cràp at selecting their mates?

Or,,,,

,, does it reveal that men are more inclined to hang on to a less than ideal partner and, if they weren't subject to societal condemnation, would flit from woman to woman like a male lion with a harem, protecting and providing for them all but not finding or caring that a particular one be 'special'?

Makes you wonder if, despite the love songs, the poetry and the endless research, either gender is any good at love at all.

Might also explain why, if you ask 100 people to define what love is, you get 100 different answers. No other commonly used word provides such diverse replies.

Fascinating stuff.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> I have begun to think about this after seeing stats that show women initiate divorce 90% of the time. I have also seen quotes like "


 Women file for divorce about 70% of the time, not 90%. The person who files for divorce might very well not be the one causing the marriage breakup, or even the one walked out.

A woman who is left with children to raise when her husband walks out is very likely to file for divorce first. And her husband is likely to not file.

Why? Because she is raising kids and needs the child support. If she’s been a SAHM, she also needs spousal support. The husband is not likely to file because until there’s a court order he does not have to give a penny in child support or spousal support.

Who files means very little related to who is the cause of the breakup.


Moops said:


> I have also seen quotes like ""Marry a man who loves you more than you love him." said by women. Its seems to me the general consensus among women is that it's better if the man loves her more deeply than vice versa.


I have seen that said a lot by men too “Marry a women who loves you more than you love her.” That’s a common bit of advice given to both men and women because the one who loves less has more power in the relationship.


Moops said:


> And if one thinks about relationships in general and how they are started it's usually the man who initiates contact, does the "pursuing", establishes a relationship, proposes etc etc. Its usually the man who does romantic gestures for the woman.


Women are taught as children that she is not to be the initiator on these things. It might be different these days, but that’s been the social norm since the dawn of civilization. If you read the book “Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus” the author talks about courtship. He warns women that if the woman makes the first moves in a relationship, the man will consider her to be good for sex but not good for a relationship. If you want to understand this, get the book.



Moops said:


> And also, this might be a silly example but in songs, books, poetry and so on. It's usually the woman who is the centre of attention and the one who recieves love. Male singers often sing about a particular woman and how they love her and stuff like that. Female singers usually sing about themselves, they rarely focus on the guy and if they do it's in a negative way.


What do you expect men to write in poems and songs? Of course men will write love songs about loving women, unless they are gay. Then if they are gay, they will write about loving a man.

Women write love poems and songs about loving men. See how that works?


Moops said:


> It's just seems to me like men do the loving and women love to get loved.


If you selectively pick what you look at, of course you will get a distorted impression.
Women stay with men who abuse them out of love for years, decades.


Moops said:


> On the other hands it's usually said that women are more nurturing and caring. And that they are usually the ones who get too attached and so on. But I don't know... to me it looks like the other way around when I look at relationship dynamics.


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## Methuselah (Nov 24, 2014)

I would conclude one partner loving the other "more" would create a power-imbalance which the "loving-less" individual could capitalize on, leading to resentment among other things. Sounds unhealthy.

Fortunately Edna and I are equally devoted to one another. No unhealthy power imbalances in our marriage.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Read Song of Songs/ Song of Solomon in the bible.
> 
> That lady loves very deep.
> 
> ...


It is not taking advantage of the current culture. Women finally have a choice of leaving bad marriage without ending up homeless and barefoot. In most cultures they did nto have that options for thousands of years.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> It is not taking advantage of the current culture. Women finally have a choice of leaving bad marriage without ending up homeless and barefoot. In most cultures they did nto have that options for thousands of years.


That as well but I have witnessed many marriages destroyed by selfishness and not for really valid reasons.
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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Please note I included men.
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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Women file for divorce about 70% of the time, not 90%. The person who files for divorce might very well not be the one causing the marriage breakup, or even the one walked out.
> 
> A woman who is left with children to raise when her husband walks out is very likely to file for divorce first. And her husband is likely to not file.
> 
> ...


Point taken.



> I have seen that said a lot by men too “Marry a women who loves you more than you love her.” That’s a common bit of advice given to both men and women because the one who loves less has more power in the relationship.


I've seen it said far more often by women and/or to women.



> Women are taught as children that she is not to be the initiator on these things. It might be different these days, but that’s been the social norm since the dawn of civilization. If you read the book “Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus” the author talks about courtship. He warns women that if the woman makes the first moves in a relationship, the man will consider her to be good for sex but not good for a relationship. If you want to understand this, get the book.


Just because he wrote a book about it doesn't mean he is right. Theres tons of books about relationships.




> What do you expect men to write in poems and songs? Of course men will write love songs about loving women, unless they are gay. Then if they are gay, they will write about loving a man.
> 
> Women write love poems and songs about loving men. See how that works?


The thing is. Women don't write love poems and songs about loving men.



> If you selectively pick what you look at, of course you will get a distorted impression.
> Women stay with men who abuse them out of love for years, decades.


It seeems to me if women genuinly did care about relationships as much as men then they would put in an equal amount of effort. 

Women often say that women shouldn't make the first move and initate in the beggining because they will have to put in all the work throughout the entire relationship. They don't seem to realise that it's exactly like that now in most relationships for men. 

Men put in most of the effort in the beggining, does the pursuing, initiates etc etc. And that sets the dynamic throughout the relationship. A woman isn't gonna suddenly start initiating and put in effort out of the blue if she has gotten used to the fact that the man does all that.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Moops said:


> Women often say that women shouldn't make the first move and initate in the beggining because *they will have to put in all the work throughout the entire relationship. They don't seem to realise that it's exactly like that now in most relationships for men. *
> 
> Men put in most of the effort in the beggining, does the pursuing, initiates etc etc. And that sets the dynamic throughout the relationship. A woman isn't gonna suddenly start initiating and put in effort out of the blue if she has gotten used to the fact that the man does all that.


Moops, what kind of work are we talking about? Is it the work to get sex or is it the work to get up with the kids when they are sick or picking them up from school, etc...

Statistically women are much more involved on household chores. It may not count as working on the relationship for men but women may think otherwise. 

Can you give example on what you mean on "working on the relationship"?


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Moops said:


> The thing is. Women don't write love poems and songs about loving men.


Eh?

http://poemhunter.com/poem/how-do-i-love-thee/
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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> The thing is. Women don't write love poems … about loving men.


The thing is that women do write love poems about loving men. I did some google searches on the topic. One search come up with over 48 million hits, another with over 15 million hits.

I’m not sure why you are unaware that women do write love poems to and about men. They have since women first started to write things down.

Elizabeth Akers Allen - Famous Love and Romance Poets

Aphra Behn - A Collection of the World's Most Romantic Poetry

Love and Romance Poetry by Anne Bradstreet and other Famous Poets

A Collection of the World's Most Romantic Poetry - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

A Collection of the World's Most Romantic Poetry - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

A Collection of the World's Most Romantic Poetry - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

*Emily ****inson*

I Many Times Thought  

Wild Nights--Wild Nights! 


What If I Say 

I Never Lost As Much 

I Sing 

We Play At Paste 

It's All I Have to Bring Today 

I Held a Jewel 

Heart, We Will Never Forget Him  

A Wounded Deer Leaps Highest 

And a whole lot more..........

Love Poems Most Beautiful Love Poems

Love Poems : The Poetry Foundation

Classic Love Poems for Him

I’d show you my daughter’s note books (many many notebooks) fill with her love poems writing to and about her boyfriends. But she’d kill me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> The thing is. Women don't write love .. and songs about loving men.


Now for songs written by women …

Taylor Swift – Love Story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xg3vE8Ie_E 

Taylor Swift - White Horse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Xr-JFLxik

Category:Songs written by Taylor Swift - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here are a few more….

The Best Female Singer/Songwriters of All Time


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> It seeems to me if women genuinly did care about relationships as much as men then they would put in an equal amount of effort.
> 
> Women often say that women shouldn't make the first move and initate in the beggining because they will have to put in all the work throughout the entire relationship. They don't seem to realise that it's exactly like that now in most relationships for men.
> 
> Men put in most of the effort in the beggining, does the pursuing, initiates etc etc. And that sets the dynamic throughout the relationship. A woman isn't gonna suddenly start initiating and put in effort out of the blue if she has gotten used to the fact that the man does all that.


It’s hard to even know how to reply to the above as it’s just nonsense.

It sounds like you are upset about your marriage. You think you that you did everything for the relationship and your wife did nothing. It would be interesting to see what your wife would say about that. Not all relationships are like yours, not by a long shot. 

Just because a man is the one who usually asks a woman out at first and proposes, it does not mean that he is putting all the work into the relationship. In a good relationship the woman and the man are both putting in a lot of effort. When relationships start, they are usually good and both are putting in that effort. 

One thing that we do know is that in most marriages that fall apart, there is usually one or both of the spouses is behaving selfishly and refusing to meet the other’s needs, and many times being outright cruel.

In your marriage you say that you tried harder than your wife. 

In both of my marriages I tried a lot harder than my husbands. 

It is wrong for you to use your experience in your marriage to put down and insult all women. I get so tired of these types of posts on here putting down all women. We are not your wife. We don’t all act like your wife.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

I think it depends on the individual. I've always been the romantic. I believe I loved my wife more. It has basically taken 15 yrs for her to realize she can really trust me after divorcing her serial cheating ex. I have dealt with some **** in those years, I'd like to beat her ex's ass. From the stories I have heard it is disproportionately men who usually commit suicide after wife's cheating/leaving. So I would definitely say those men loved their wives more.
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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Men committing suicide when their marriage breaks up does not mean that men love more deeply than women. It means that the men who commit suicide cannot cope with life.

Generally men do not have much of an extended social circle. Men make friend with those that do things with them, like the people they work with. Women form asocial circle based on those who they can share their feeling with and provide mutual support.

So when a man's marriage breaks up, he is often left with no support system.

ETA: 

Women are far more likely to seek out help when they fall into a deep depression than men are. This is probably one of the major factors in the higher suicide rate in men at the time that their marriage breaks up.


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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> It’s hard to even know how to reply to the above as it’s just nonsense.
> 
> It sounds like you are upset about your marriage. You think you that you did everything for the relationship and your wife did nothing. It would be interesting to see what your wife would say about that. Not all relationships are like yours, not by a long shot.
> 
> ...


I'm not married, nor am I in a relationship.

Reading my thread start again I realize that might have come across as a bitter person who dislikes women, this is not the case. I think women are great... but I do think there are differences between women and men when it comes to relationships, sex and love.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Divorce Support - What is temporary alimony or "alimony pendente lite"?

I also believe, and I wish I could find it, been looking, that a custodial parent may receive child support before the divorce is final, which I actually paid years ago, once they move out or the husband moves out. It's pretty simple here, and last I checked fairly reasonably priced to schedule a hearing. I think it was thirty-five or forty-five dollars last I checked? That was 2009?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> I'm not married, nor am I in a relationship.
> 
> Reading my thread start again I realize that might have come across as a bitter person who dislikes women, this is not the case. I think women are great... but I do think there are differences between women and men when it comes to relationships, sex and love.


I agree that there are difference between men and women in relationships.

But I know for a fact that neither gender has a monopoly on who loves more. It's an individual thing. Each person and their capacity to love is, well, individual.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Divorce Support - What is temporary alimony or "alimony pendente lite"?
> 
> I also believe, and I wish I could find it, been looking, that a custodial parent may receive child support before the divorce is final, which I actually paid years ago, once they move out or the husband moves out. It's pretty simple here, and last I checked fairly reasonably priced to schedule a hearing. I think it was thirty-five or forty-five dollars last I checked? That was 2009?


Did you post this on the wrong thread?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Did you post this on the wrong thread?


No, it shows how simple it is to get alimony and child support, at least in the US.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The idea that because women file for divorce the majority of the time means they don't love as deeply has got to be one of the most ridiculous conclusions I've ever seen. Women file because often men won't; they'll be miserable, possibly lousy husbands, have affairs, and often will do nothing to improve the marriage but they won't file. Then they can claim victim status for a divorce they didn't want. I saw this personally in my parents marriage and in my first marriage. Why? 

Well the most obvious answer is that there is this idea that they will get the short end in a divorce; there is some truth to this but it has to do with shifting gender roles and is a throwback to the days when women were completely dependent on their husbands. Unfortunately, that only really works if she can't leave; once she can then someone has to support her. The answer of course is to continue the march toward full equality, so it's never assumed that it's the man's job to provide; it should be a joint responsibility to be worked out between the couple. Then if the marriage doesn't work it's assumed that both can support themselves; when this equality happens men will get equal divorce settlements and will file more often. My mom told my dad early in their marriage that if she had to work she didn't have to get married; he could've walked right then (they didn't have kids yet) as she told him exactly who she was, but he didn't. Then years later he b!tched that he was on the hook. Well yeah, what did you think would happen here?

But understand that if you agree to support a spouse you are then somewhat responsible for their support; you can't think that they'll stay home for however many years and if the marriage doesn't work then all of a sudden they can up and support themselves. This will correct itself but like most other social changes it will take a few generations.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> The idea that because women file for divorce the majority of the time means they don't love as deeply has got to be one of the most ridiculous conclusions I've ever seen. Women file because often men won't; they'll be miserable, possibly lousy husbands, have affairs, and often will do nothing to improve the marriage but they won't file. Then they can claim victim status for a divorce they didn't want. I saw this personally in my parents marriage and in my first marriage. Why?
> 
> Well the most obvious answer is that there is this idea that they will get the short end in a divorce; there is some truth to this but it has to do with shifting gender roles and is a throwback to the days when women were completely dependent on their husbands. Unfortunately, that only really works if she can't leave; once she can then someone has to support her. The answer of course is to continue the march toward full equality, so it's never assumed that it's the man's job to provide; it should be a joint responsibility to be worked out between the couple. Then if the marriage doesn't work it's assumed that both can support themselves; when this equality happens men will get equal divorce settlements and will file more often. My mom told my dad early in their marriage that if she had to work she didn't have to get married; he could've walked right then (they didn't have kids yet) as she told him exactly who she was, but he didn't. Then years later he b!tched that he was on the hook. Well yeah, what did you think would happen here?
> 
> But understand that if you agree to support a spouse you are then somewhat responsible for their support; you can't think that they'll stay home for however many years and if the marriage doesn't work then all of a sudden they can up and support themselves. This will correct itself but like most other social changes it will take a few generations.


I dont think its that ridiculous and I know many men who feel that way. While I don't personally believe that it's because women love less I do think that many divorced women have unrealistic view of love and not the reasonable foundation commitment. So in other words when the fairytale gets hard and difficult they check out of the marriage while a man is willing to stand and fight for thier marriage and the relationship.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

As a woman, I feel like I have always been the one to love "more" in all my (previous, obviously failed) relationships. Until this one. I think this one we are about "equal," if you can even put a measure on it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> I dont think its that ridiculous and I know many men who feel that way. While I don't personally believe that it's because women love less I do think that many divorced women have unrealistic view of love and not the reasonable foundation commitment. So in other words when the fairytale gets hard and difficult they check out of the marriage while a man is willing to stand and fight for thier marriage and the relationship.



Well it may have been true in their relationships, but it's certainly not gender specific. It is often the case that one partner is more deeply invested, but failed relationship are far more complicated then simply one partner loving more. Indeed, how much you love your partner isn't necessarily proportional to how much effort you put in or what kind of partner you are. Maybe ridiculous was the wrong term, maybe overly simplistic is better. To label it in such a way suggests a profound inability to grasp the layers of relationships, and also suggests a generally lazy attitude toward said relationships, which might explain why it failed. Anyone who thinks love is enough is either 15 or is in all kinds of denial.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Well, I think in my marriage he thinks he is the one loves more. and maybe he does when he is happy. When he is not happy it's another story. But I am sure he will claim he loves me deeply, while forgetting all the times he yelled and called me names, and behaved disrepectully. 

Love is not only words, is also everyday actions of showing respect, help, support.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Moops said:


> I have begun to think about this after seeing stats that show women initiate divorce 90% of the time. I have also seen quotes like ""Marry a man who loves you more than you love him." said by women. Its seems to me the general consensus among women is that it's better if the man loves her more deeply than vice versa.
> 
> And if one thinks about relationships in general and how they are started it's usually the man who initiates contact, does the "pursuing", establishes a relationship, proposes etc etc. Its usually the man who does romantic gestures for the woman.


Getting back to the original post... I don't think one can take a specific gender to answer this question.. It varies from couple to couple.. It may be fair to say relationships can be a little lopsided (either way- I've definitely seen both )...where it seems one loves / gives more than the other.. Generally there is a more *giving partner *in every union.. and sometimes this can carry a relationship till the other sees the light, or during a difficult time.. 

My H told me 5 yrs ago, he always felt he loved me MORE.. and this saddened me.. (I feel this was directly related to Sex- as he wanted more & my head was elsewhere -yet we were still very close)...it's something that should have never been... so clearly I wasn't giving back AS MUCH over the years... but I've made up for this..

I think this question is really about "settling".. sad to say but many get their hearts broken, breakups can near destroy some who saw forever, then many vow to never let love in again "that deeply"...but they don't want to be alone ....I had a gf who , because all our us were married, she settled.. she ended up cheating on this guy later on.. it wasn't fair to him. but that's what happened...then after that she was more CRAZY the guy where he seemed to be not as crazy about her. It can go either way.. 



> And also, this might be a silly example but in songs, books, poetry and so on. It's usually the woman who is the centre of attention and the one who recieves love. Male singers often sing about a particular woman and how they love her and stuff like that. Female singers usually sing about themselves, they rarely focus on the guy and if they do it's in a negative way.


 maybe it's just what we notice too.. there are very moving songs by women ...(not sure who wrote them though)....how about these...

The Power of Love by Jennifer Rush

Halo by Beyonce

From This Moment -Shania Twain 

This song would capture how I feel about my husband... 

Because you loved me 



> It's just seems to me like men do the loving and women love to get loved.


It seems many today do not even hold a relationship that high.. they may care about careers & Independence and may even think worrying about a man's love is foolish.. 

Then some of us are plagued with the Hopeless Romantic bug .. YES... some of us LOVE to be LOVED... so long as we desire to give back as much or strive to.. is there anything wrong with this ? Me & mine may have been a little lopsided, though only he felt that.. I never wanted anyone else.. just a small area we needed to get right.



> On the other hands it's usually said that women are more nurturing and caring. And that they are usually the ones who get too attached and so on. But I don't know... to me it looks like the other way around when I look at relationship dynamics.


 Oh men can be like this too... My H is* as much of an attacher* as I ever was, that's one of the things I loved about him.. 



> What do you think ?


 I can look at our teen son & see a different dynamic ...2nd son & his GF, 3 yrs together.. she seems in deeper... which surprises me some...at 1st he was wild about her, for a year couldn't stop talking about her..(it got on some of his friends nerves).. then things tapered down...I can see she carries the torch more than he does...it's been this way for a while..

I had a heart to heart with her the other day....She came over for Thanksgiving/ a nice time, then she asked him to come with her to her Grams...he didn't want too...I could see she was disappointed/ hurt ... she tried to hide it ..but I KNEW...(I'd feel the same !)... she just says she loves him & she is patient with him, but it does hurt sometimes ... she spoke of compromise ... I want the best for them both..... he got himself a fine young woman there and I think to myself.. if he screws this up.. boy is he going to kick himself someday... but they are still very young.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Did you say anything to your son, SA?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Well it may have been true in their relationships, but it's certainly not gender specific. It is often the case that one partner is more deeply invested, but failed relationship are far more complicated then simply one partner loving more. Indeed, how much you love your partner isn't necessarily proportional to how much effort you put in or what kind of partner you are. Maybe ridiculous was the wrong term, maybe overly simplistic is better. To label it in such a way suggests a profound inability to grasp the layers of relationships, and also suggests a generally lazy attitude toward said relationships, which might explain why it failed. *Anyone who thinks love is enough is either 15 or is in all kinds of denial.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is 100% true. Love alone is never enough


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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Getting back to the original post... I don't think one can take a specific gender to answer this question.. It varies from couple to couple.. It may be fair to say relationships can be a little lopsided (either way- I've definitely seen both )...where it seems one loves / gives more than the other.. Generally there is a more *giving partner *in every union.. and sometimes this can carry a relationship till the other sees the light, or during a difficult time..



Yeah this is what I was getting at. It's usually the man who is the giving partner. Not always maybe but I'd say it's more often the man who is the giving partner than the woman.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

I find the question repugnant. Being able to love deeply has nothing to do with gender.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> I find the question repugnant. Being able to love deeply has nothing to do with gender.


Well, maybe Moops is really curious? I don't agree but it should be ok to discuss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> I dont think its that ridiculous and I know many men who feel that way. While I don't personally believe that it's because women love less *I do think that many divorced women have unrealistic view of love *and not the reasonable foundation commitment. So in other words when the fairytale gets hard and difficult they check out of the marriage while a man is willing to stand and fight for thier marriage and the relationship.


But you don't know how many women have an unrealistic view of marriage.

Out of all the divorces that happen, more women file. But we don't know what % of those are filed because it was the husband who checked out of the marriage.

This is little more than your personal feeling.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> Yeah this is what I was getting at. It's usually the man who is the giving partner. Not always maybe but I'd say it's more often the man who is the giving partner than the woman.


You have no data to back up a claim like this.

I've known enough couples and been married long enough to know that in a marriage, usually one spouse is more giving than the other. But which it is, is individual to that couples. With some couples it goes back and forth depending of the cycle of their marriage.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Well, maybe Moops is really curious? I don't agree but it should be ok to discuss.


He does not seem curios. He seem absolutely convinced and not open to any discussion or input.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> He does not seem curios. He seem absolutely convinced and not open to any discussion or input.


Yes. Moops does seem to be looking for validation of a certain viewpoint. Ignoring evidence to the contrary. My wife is extremely giving and loving. I am just maybe more romantic. Not really a gender issue me thinks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> *You have no data to back up a claim like this.
> *
> I've known enough couples and been married long enough to know that in a marriage, usually one spouse is more giving than the other. But which it is, is individual to that couples. With some couples it goes back and forth depending of the cycle of their marriage.


It's based on my own observations. 

But I don't know. Maybe women put in effort and show love in other ways then? 

It seems to me like the romancing, pursuing, initiative taking effort is done by the man. Not only in the beggining but throughout the relationship. The woman gets used to the fact that it's always the man who does those things to show love so she has no reason to do those things.

Maybe women are capable of loving as deeply but they just don't show it as much as men through actions?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> It's based on my own observations.
> 
> But I don't know. Maybe women put in effort and show love in other ways then?
> 
> ...


Can you give me a list of the things that you think men do that show that they love more or are doing more?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Moops said:


> Yeah this is what I was getting at. It's usually the man who is the giving partner. Not always maybe but I'd say it's more often the man who is the giving partner than the woman.


If it seems this way to you.. I will give you the benefit of the doubt in your life, looking at friends, relatives, etc.. maybe you just know more men who seem like they love more.. . but spread out over the world.. it surely is on more on an even scale ... 

Plus what seems on the outside ....who really knows what goes on behind closed doors.. most don't speak their dirty laundry...



> It's based on my own observations.
> 
> But I don't know. Maybe women put in effort and show love in other ways then?
> 
> ...


 Sometimes when a couples love languages are off.. they miss feeling loved by the other because they crave a different mode of loving more so than the way their other expresses it most... have you heard of the 5 love languages?










>>  The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts  







 Love Languages Personal Profile


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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Can you give me a list of the things that you think men do that show that they love more or are doing more?


More affectionate, initiates kisses and hugs more frequentley.

Initiates contact more often, calls etc etc.

Plans dates and romantic nights.

Asks to do stuff together.

Those are things that I'd say men do more frequentley than women in relationships. In the dating stage, men do the pursuing, and are usually the ones to initiate the relationship and take it to the next level, say "I love you" first, proposes and etc etc.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What you describe in your list are cold-fish women. Not all women are cold-fish, most are not.

If you pick the kind of woman who does not do the things you list, that’s on you. It’s not on me and the other billions of woman who are not like this. 

So lets go through your list…..

*More affectionate, initiates kisses and hugs more frequently. * – Both men and women are equally as affectionate. Not all mean are affectionate. Not all women are affectionate. If you date a women who is not as affectionate as you are, she’s not a good match for you. Drop her and find a woman who is.

*Initiates contact more often, calls etc etc. * – This is not true. In a good relationship, both people should be initiating contact on about an equal level. Sure there might be a period of time when one makes contact more than the other. But over time it should equalize. If you are dating a woman who leaves all this continuing up to you, drop her. She’s no worth your time.

*Plans dates and romantic nights* – Again not true. This should be done equally. What I like to do with dating is that we take turns doing this. And the one who asks pays for that date. This way we can each get a chance to spoil the other. Plus we can each plan a date that fits our budget.

*Asks to do stuff together. * – Again not true. See the above.

Those are things that I'd say men do more frequently than women in relationships. 

*In the dating stage, men do the pursuing, * 
*and are usually the ones to initiate the relationship and*
– have you ever heard the saying “A man chases a woman until she catches him.”… This refers to the fact that women give a man that they are interested in a clue. They tip their head, smile and talk, flirt… this lets a guy know that she’s interested. Then he pursues her, because she wants him to. It’s just like birds and animals have a mating ritual; this is the human “come and get me ritual”

*take it to the next level* – what do you mean by taking it to the next level? This could mean a lot of thing. 

*say "I love you" first* – You have no clue which person says this first. It might be your experience, but that tells you nothing about who usually says this in a relationship.

*Proposes* - Men probably do propose more often because that is tradition. But believe me, for just about every man who proposes.. there is a woman taking to him about marriage and bugging him to ask her. By the time most men propose, the woman has made it very clear that she wants to get married to him.

You get the type of woman you chose. If you want a more outwardly affectionate and loving woman, then pick one.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

jld said:


> I think a man needs to feel it from the beginning in order for the relationship to get off the ground. If his heart is not in it from the get-go, I'm not sure how faithful he will be, nor how hard he will work at the marriage.
> 
> I think it's wise for a woman to go with a man who really wants her. But she still needs to vet him carefully. She needs to make sure he is stable.
> 
> Women take a lot of risk when they get married and have children. A stable, devoted partner will mitigate that risk.


I agree that it is important for the man to want the relationship but sometimes once those love hormones wear off the man is no more faithful and devoted than the man who was resistant. My first husband begged me to marry him, said he couldn't live without me. He cheated on me the first time within the first 2 years of our marriage. I dated a man that also was very much in love with me and would have done anything for me but I did not feel the same for him and we broke up. I don't think women can accept or adjust, we too have to be in love. The thing that is tricky is those darned love hormones our body produces in the first bits of our relationship make us blind to things we should be seeing.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Moops said:


> It's based on my own observations.
> 
> But I don't know. Maybe women put in effort and show love in other ways then?
> 
> ...


I don't know what kind of women you have been observing, but I am not like that. If anything, I am the one who has always been with the men who felt like they "had" me and no longer had to put forth any effort. Stinks to be in that position, and thankfully my current BF tries his heart out. Doesn't always succeed (lol) but he tries.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> But you don't know how many women have an unrealistic view of marriage.
> 
> Out of all the divorces that happen, more women file. But we don't know what % of those are filed because it was the husband who checked out of the marriage.
> 
> This is little more than your personal feeling.


Negative this my opinion not my feeling on it. I have no feelings about the matter. Only an opinion about what I have experienced and what others around me have experienced and I stand by it. When others experience different things they are allowed to share them as well.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Moops said:


> More affectionate, initiates kisses and hugs more frequentley.
> 
> Initiates contact more often, calls etc etc.
> 
> ...


See I would say that what I experienced was more of a mutual pursuit and affection until a commitment/marriage and then that died off slowly from my x.

8 years in I was the only one planning dates, vacations, initiating all the affection. Interesting how that became so normal to me even though it hurt that none of it was returned. And I wouldn't tolerate it now but it was a slow disengagement from the relationship that every step just became my normal.

The "change" that you hear many guys and gals talk about here is the reason I keep the thoughts of marriage at arms length. Cause you can't tell who will change and who won't.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> What you describe in your list are cold-fish women. Not all women are cold-fish, most are not.
> 
> If you pick the kind of woman who does not do the things you list, that’s on you. It’s not on me and the other billions of woman who are not like this.
> 
> ...


You hope you do anyway. I am the first to jump on people who marry and then complain about what they already knew was missing before the marriage, Example my wife never wants to have sex. Never did before marriage but now it's worse....well guy that's kinda on you. 

But plenty of others experience the bait and switch where they are presented with one thing and then after commitment completely changes. That is a gender nuetral issue and for the most part it seems it's only dumb luck if a person stays the same or changes out of the blue.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

As for who files for divorce, I think that falls in line with who breaks up with whom in general. 

I'm not saying this to brag, but I've been the one to end just about every relationship I've had, and certainly every long term one. Men just don't like conflict, so they hang around even when the relationship is dead just so they don't have to be the one who ends it. Not much changes after marriage, it seems.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Moops said:


> It's based on my own observations.
> 
> But I don't know. Maybe women put in effort and show love in other ways then?
> 
> ...


My experience is that men often romance and pursue in the beginning but then stop once they get married. The emotional "work" in relationships is often done more by the women. 

But I think what people DO in the context of relationship is not always indicative of the depth of their feeling. You might be afraid of commitment. It doesn't mean you don't have deep feelings for your partner. You might do your part in the household chores. It doesn't necessarily mean you have deep feelings for your partner.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Moops said:


> It's based on my own observations.
> 
> But I don't know. Maybe women put in effort and show love in other ways then?
> 
> ...


Speaking for myself, I have always been the more romantic one in my relationships. I combine romance and fun and love to plan things that are elaborate and exciting. Sadly, it's been probably 15 years since I did anything like that. My H isn't the romantic type, either giving or receiving. He wouldn't react, so it's a let down. And he wouldn't reciprocate, so it is one sided. 

I can think of one man I dated who did romantic things for me that I loved. We worked together and he would leave little things on my desk when I wasn't there, things that showed he knew me and was thinking of me. That was great!!


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

firebelly1 said:


> My experience is that men often romance and pursue in the beginning but then stop once they get married. The emotional "work" in relationships is often done more by the women.
> 
> But I think what people DO in the context of relationship is not always indicative of the depth of their feeling. You might be afraid of commitment. It doesn't mean you don't have deep feelings for your partner. You might do your part in the household chores. It doesn't necessarily mean you have deep feelings for your partner.


My experience is the same, especially the emotional work to maintain the marriage. My H doesn't want to read a book, or talk to anyone, or do anything to understand what is wrong with our marriage and fix it. He says he cares, but if he doesn't show it then his words mean nothing. Worse, he's wasting my life and his by not addressing the marital issues. 

So in the end, I will go because he won't work with me even though he's the one who doesn't want it to end. Like a person who says they want a job but doesn't want to do the work - uh, you are going to get fired, buddy.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

See this is the issue with generalizations based on our own observations. Before I met my hb all of my sexual partners were either incompetent or selfish. Therefore all men must be either incompetent or selfish lovers. How does that generalization work? Were my choices a representative sample of all men? Maybe I contributed to the problem. That's why my sample is incredibly biased.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> See this is the issue with generalizations based on our own observations. Before I met my hb all of my sexual partners were either incompetent or selfish. Therefore all men must be either incompetent or selfish lovers. How does that generalization work? Were my choices a representative sample of all men? Maybe I contributed to the problem. That's why my sample is incredibly biased.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is true for sure.

Until my current GF I rarely ever had a woman buy me a birthday present for example. When I told my GF she was shocked. When I told my friends they were also shocked. To me it was normal because I had never been treated any differently. So my basis was women get presents for thier Birthday and men don't. Wasn't men don't it was I didnt.

I think it's normal to have our world view shaped by what we live.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> You hope you do anyway. I am the first to jump on people who marry and then complain about what they already knew was missing before the marriage, Example my wife never wants to have sex. Never did before marriage but now it's worse....well guy that's kinda on you.
> 
> But plenty of others experience the bait and switch where they are presented with one thing and then after commitment completely changes. That is a gender nuetral issue and for the most part it seems it's only dumb luck if a person stays the same or changes out of the blue.


It is true that some people do a bait and switch after marriage. I've married men who do this.

If you (generic you) chose to date someone who is a cold fish, you are guaranteed to get a cold fish.

If you chose to date some who is hot in bed, you are far more likely to get someone who will always be hot in bed. Doesn't mean that some of them don't bait/switch. 

When I have really looked back at the men I married who did what looked like a bait and switch, I can find evidence that predicted that what looks like bait/switch is just them finally feeling that they had me so they could finally be who they were.

I divorced them because of this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SurpriseMyself said:


> As for who files for divorce, I think that falls in line with who breaks up with whom in general.
> 
> I'm not saying this to brag, but I've been the one to end just about every relationship I've had, and certainly every long term one. Men just don't like conflict, so they hang around even when the relationship is dead just so they don't have to be the one who ends it. Not much changes after marriage, it seems.


My husbands cheated on me, serial cheating.
One of them was emotionally and physically abusive.

I filed for divorce in both cases. But who broke up the marriage? The one who cheated and mistreated the other? Or the one of finally go sick of it and filed for divorce?


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

EleGirl said:


> My husbands cheated on me, serial cheating.
> One of them was emotionally and physically abusive.
> 
> I filed for divorce in both cases. But who broke up the marriage? The one who cheated and mistreated the other? Or the one of finally go sick of it and filed for divorce?


I'm sorry to read this, EleGirl. Both of those men suck!! I hope those tough lessons have taught you how to avoid those types of people. In each case, your ex broke the marriage and you simply did what had to be done.


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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> My experience is that men often romance and pursue in the beginning but then stop once they get married. *The emotional "work" in relationships is often done more by the women. *
> 
> But I think what people DO in the context of relationship is not always indicative of the depth of their feeling. You might be afraid of commitment. It doesn't mean you don't have deep feelings for your partner. You might do your part in the household chores. It doesn't necessarily mean you have deep feelings for your partner.


In what way though? 

And one can't really expect a man to pursue throughout the entire relationship. At some point the woman should stop wanting to be "chased" and start reciprocating. But my observations is that they never want to stop being "chased".


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> My husbands cheated on me, serial cheating.
> One of them was emotionally and physically abusive.
> 
> I filed for divorce in both cases. But who broke up the marriage? The one who cheated and mistreated the other? Or the one of finally go sick of it and filed for divorce?


I can agree to that point. In my case my x wife cheated and I wanted the divorce. But in my mind she will always be the one who ended our marriage by the affair. The divorce was just a formality .


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Moops said:


> In what way though?
> 
> And one can't really expect a man to pursue throughout the entire relationship. At some point the woman should stop wanting to be "chased" and start reciprocating. But my observations is that they never want to stop being "chased".


Women do the emotional work in the sense that if there is conflict, they are usually the ones who try to fix it as opposed to the man who typically wants to avoid talking about it. 

If a man "chases" a woman by buying her flowers, taking her out to dinner, texting her sweet notes...yes, the woman wants him to keep doing those things indefinitely. Is that what you mean? If so, why shouldn't she think he will keep doing those things? 

I'm not saying she shouldn't do nice things in return, I'm just saying he shouldn't stop doing those things just because she is now "his."


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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> Women do the emotional work in the sense that if there is conflict, they are usually the ones who try to fix it as opposed to the man who typically wants to avoid talking about it.
> 
> If a man "chases" a woman by buying her flowers, taking her out to dinner, texting her sweet notes...yes, the woman wants him to keep doing those things indefinitely. Is that what you mean? If so, why shouldn't she think he will keep doing those things?
> 
> I'm not saying she shouldn't do nice things in return, *I'm just saying he shouldn't stop doing those things just because she is now "his.*"


I can't say I speak for all men but if I was in a relationship I'd like to feel like she desires me as much as I do her. If I'm always the one pursuing her and reaching out to her then I wouldn't feel very desired by her.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Moops said:


> I can't say I speak for all men but if I was in a relationship I'd like to feel like she desires me as much as I do her. If I'm always the one pursuing her and reaching out to her then I wouldn't feel very desired by her.


What if every time you reached out, she was so happy and told you so? What if she dressed up and put on your favorite perfume when you asked her out? What if she cooked you special meals, or made sure to have your favorite beer on hand all the time? What if she spent time helping your parents clear out their basement because they are YOUR parents? What if she made sure you always had clean underwear and shirts for work? What if she snuggled up next to you on the couch when you were busy watching the game even though she knew your focus would be on the game instead of her? What if she opened her home to your friends for the Superbowl? What if she rubbed your back when you had a bad day? What if she listened to you b*tch about the guy at work who pissed you off? 

Would any of those things make you feel desired and loved?

Being the one to pursue is the tip of the iceberg in terms of how people show each other love in a relationship.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Moops said:


> I can't say I speak for all men but if I was in a relationship I'd like to feel like she desires me as much as I do her. If I'm always the one pursuing her and reaching out to her then I wouldn't feel very desired by her.


Of course. The key is, what does a woman do that makes you feel desired? If a woman never does that, then she isn't the woman for you, right? Why pursue her if she doesn't do those things?


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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

norajane said:


> What if every time you reached out, she was so happy and told you so? What if she dressed up and put on your favorite perfume when you asked her out? What if she cooked you special meals, or made sure to have your favorite beer on hand all the time? What if she spent time helping your parents clear out their basement because they are YOUR parents? What if she made sure you always had clean underwear and shirts for work? What if she snuggled up next to you on the couch when you were busy watching the game even though she knew your focus would be on the game instead of her? What if she opened her home to your friends for the Superbowl? What if she rubbed your back when you had a bad day? What if she listened to you b*tch about the guy at work who pissed you off?
> 
> Would any of those things make you feel desired and loved?
> 
> Being the one to pursue is the tip of the iceberg in terms of how people show each other love in a relationship.


My reasoning is that if the only time we will spend time together or talk is when it's on my initiative then it's obviously not as important for her as it is for me. 

If she never takes any intiatives on her own then I would assume that she never spontanely gets the desire to see me. 

I think theres a difference between a woman who happily goes along with whatever the man wants to do and a woman who actively takes measures to spend more time together.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> I can't say I speak for all men but if I was in a relationship I'd like to feel like she desires me as much as I do her. If I'm always the one pursuing her and reaching out to her then I wouldn't feel very desired by her.


She needs to be doing things too.

In many marriages, it's the woman who plans all of the dates, trips, etc... all of the special things. It's the woman who does most of the work for holidays... family traditions.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Moops said:


> My reasoning is that if the only time we will spend time together or talk is when it's on my initiative then it's obviously not as important for her as it is for me.
> 
> If she never takes any intiatives on her own then I would assume that she never spontanely gets the desire to see me.
> 
> *I think theres a difference between a woman who happily goes along with whatever the man wants to do and a woman who actively takes measures to spend more time together*.


Of course there is a difference between women who just goes along and women who actively take measures to be with you. Both type exist. Just like both types of men exist.

If you are with a woman who does not actively take measures to spend time with you, why are you with her? Go find a woman who is like what you want.

I think that you would benefit from reading the books "5 Languages of Love" and "His Needs, Her Needs"

You need to figure out what you need in a relationship. Then find a woman who can give you exactly that. And find out what she needs and give her that.

Marriage should be about each of you making sure that the other gets their needs met.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Yes OP - it seems you just haven't found the right girl. It's not that women don't love deeply. It's that you haven't found one that loves YOU deeply yet.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

As Simply Amorous said
My H told me 5 yrs ago, he always felt he loved me MORE.. and this saddened me.. (I feel this was directly related to Sex- as he wanted more & my head was elsewhere -yet we were still very close)...it's something that should have never been... so clearly I wasn't giving back AS MUCH over the years... but I've made up for this..

I understand him I think...I am one who feels love through physical intimacy....when there was a dry spell I feel unloved and unattached emotionally. I know my wife loved but even when she said it I felt " yeah right... what ever".. "I hear you say it but I do not feel it" "if you say so" it hurts and you feel disregarded and in cared for. I told her in the past it would be like a woman who thrived on communication married to a husband started to rarely talk to her any more. Or only show affection and tell he loved her once a week or so. She would feel she was starving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

So you are not feeling appreciated in your relationship, moops?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Men, in most cultures, are the pursuers. 

I don't think a cultural and social expectation to pursue is equitable to love.

I first loved my wife. I pursued her. She fell in love with me during that pursuit. Today? There is no way in hell I can out love this woman. We have a rich, deep, abiding love for one another, yes, but it manifests in my wife in a very powerful, tender, extraordinarily binding way. Falling in love with me actually altered her personality. This woman was not romantic and today stands as a hopeless one. She even misses me when I'm in another room in our home for too long, and we've been together for 14 years and counting. The depth to which she loves me consistently blows my mind away.

I don't think this is that uncommon of a story. I think many, many men fall in love first but first doesn't equate to most.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Moops said:


> In what way though?
> 
> And one can't really expect a man to pursue throughout the entire relationship. At some point the woman should stop wanting to be "chased" and start reciprocating. But my observations is that they never want to stop being "chased".


Or perhaps the root of your perspective lies not in what women do, but in the fact that you've never personally been with a woman who was driven to pursue you, even in a relationship.

That's a personal problem. It says nothing about the 3.5 billion or so women on planet earth. It simply says that you personally haven't engendered in any woman you've been with the kind of attraction and love that makes her crave and hunger for you.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

EleGirl said:


> She needs to be doing things too.
> 
> *In many marriages, it's the woman who plans all of the dates, trips, etc... all of the special things. It's the woman who does most of the work for holidays... family traditions*.


Yep...that's me.. I don't see it as a burden.. he gives me a good attitude, he keeps the romance alive...he is there beside me..that's all I need. 



> *Divinely Favored said*: I understand him I think...*I am one who feels love through physical intimacy....when there was a dry spell I feel unloved and unattached emotionally.* I know my wife loved but even when she said it I felt " yeah right... what ever".. "I hear you say it but I do not feel it" "if you say so" it hurts and you feel disregarded and in cared for. *I told her in the past it would be like a woman who thrived on communication married to a husband started to rarely talk to her any more. Or only show affection and tell he loved her once a week or so. She would feel she was starving.*


It sounds as though YOU HAVE TALKED TO HER ABOUT THESE THINGS alerting her attention.. giving this comparison...

There was a thread here once that laid out - what it REALLY MEANS when a wife continues to not care (probably more in the line of sexlessness though).... is it that she is Not "getting it".. or she hears you / GETS IT...but just doesn't care.. basically there is no hope in those situations...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/39526-five-cases-refusal-what-really-means-refused.html

My Husband really was too passive here... I'm not trying to blame him...I recall his trying ONE TIME to talk to me about this.. he mentioned wanting to HOLD ME MORE AT NIGHT ...he never even used the word SEX.....and by golly.. I still needed a BLOCK to my head.. I was thinking "cuddling"...he is the type that can sleep with me all tangled up in him all hours of the night.. but I am too fidgety and can't sleep like this...I need some space or I'd keep HIM awake... this is where I took his conversation..which was a blunder.. 

We never had a dry spell longer than a week.. but even at that I'd like to blast myself for being so









The Low Drive/ High drive divide.. it can be very frustrating.. this is another book I found helpful in understanding the differences in our libidos ...I come to learn my Husband was a Sensual / Reactive...and I was a Dependent /Sensual / Erotic ...(the erotic side of me was less patient with his Reactive ways- as I wanted him to be MORE LIKE ME -during that time ) but coming to learn these things helped me understand HIM better, even myself.....

 When Your Sex Drives Don't Match: Discover Your Libido Types to Create a Mutually Satisfying Sex Life

Here is a Libido types test >>

Identifying Your Libido Type





> *firebelly1 said*: *Yes OP - it seems you just haven't found the right girl. It's not that women don't love deeply. It's that you haven't found one that loves YOU deeply yet.*


:iagree:



> *Personal said: **My wife and I were talking about this today (not about you just about the needy and desperate), we were talking about men and before that boys who wanted her. Who were so intense and desperately serious about their affection, that they were smothering and reeked of desperation*.


 I think you are being a little harsh on Moops here...Look you are the Alpha male who gets women clawing at your feet.. you are cool , calm & collected and women has bestowed their affections on you, and everything else.. but Moops here has not had your experiences.. this doesn't necessarily mean, because he expresses how it makes him feel.. that he is so emotionally needy & desperate...

I am a little different from your wife.. that's what makes the world go round I guess...

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the more sensitive affectionate type males.. ...who emotionally crave their woman... not the type who complains (I can't say this as my H never did -even when he damn well should have -I could kick him for that)... but the type who cares so much...*I think you need to find a woman who wants to give back as much as you want to give.*....it's a compatibility thing... but if you are married. that won't be helping you I suppose...

It just seems you have not ever experienced a love filled affection lavished relationship.. I am not going to beat you up over this.. it doesn't come so easy for every person.. even if you do all the right things, it may still allude you.


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## kindnessrules (Sep 5, 2014)

I have heard that the one who loves less controls the relationship and I agree. In my relationship, sadly, I'm pretty sure I am the one who loves less. Either my capacity for caring is not very great, or else I am just jaded from 22 yrs of marriage issues. Or maybe I'm just unusually sensitive to problems and less willing to hang in there and work through it. Unfortunately, I do get bored with things and need a change. I had many boyfriends and serial monogamy before marriage and my H used to express worry that I might get bored. 

The OP is right that in popular images it does seem that the man typically does the pursuing. My H and I met at the health club and he was quick to want my number, while I was more guarded and took it very slowly and wanted to take the time to form a friendship and get to know him before getting emotionally involved. He brought up the "M" word fairly quickly. 

Even now, 22 yrs later, he is still in love with me. He says it all the time and writes me the mushiest cards. I think he's happy over all, more so than me. But we've had our fair share of difficulties and I confess I have thought more than once about walking away; I don't know how much he realizes it, although he might. I think our problems bothered me more than him as several of his issues brought specific unforeseen problems into my life which have been very, very difficult for me to live with. I truly did not know marriage would be so hard. 

Not to diss you guys, but maybe women are more emotionally complex, they are wired to be nurturers, to notice and be sensitive to their children's and partner's needs, and to be less accepting of problems. After all, we fix things - we're supposed to fix everyone's boo-boos. We heard at a premarriage conference that the man should listen to what his wife is saying b/c she is sensitive to these things - a "living marriage manual."

Articles say men are happier overall then women, and more men seem to rate their marital happiness higher than women. At the risk of sounding simplistic, men seem less complex, at least my H has said he's pretty simple - he goes to work, comes homes, eats, sleeps. He doesn't notice the nuances or think too much about whether or not he's happy. He just deals with a problem or learns to ignore it. If I say I'm unhappy with something he does his best to make me happy. He tries not to dwell on things. Whereas women dwell and dwell until they drive themselves nuts trying to change the guy - or badger him to death and make everyone miserable. (I can get away with saying that b/c I'm a woman, but I sincerely hope I'm not offending anyone!


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

kindnessrules said:


> Not to diss you guys, but maybe women are more emotionally complex, they are wired to be nurturers, to notice and be sensitive to their children's and partner's needs, and to be less accepting of problems. After all, we fix things - we're supposed to fix everyone's boo-boos. We heard at a premarriage conference that the man should listen to what his wife is saying b/c she is sensitive to these things - a "living marriage manual."


This is hardly universal. In my relationship my wife is more emotionally complex and nurturing, while I am more sensitive to and aware of the emotional and psychological nuances in both of us, and thus our marriage. I am the fixer.

I know plenty of relationships where the man is the "fixer" and is more attuned than the woman.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Moops said:


> And also, this might be a silly example but in songs, books, poetry and so on. *It's usually the woman who is the centre of attention and the one who recieves love*. Male singers often sing about a particular woman and how they love her and stuff like that. *Female singers usually sing about themselves, they rarely focus on the guy and if they do it's in a negative way*.


I did not read the whole thread, but as to the bolded parts, what...the...heck?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcPc18SG6uA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM140HUjt9M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T9fC2iSktk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR93L8sUMNg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AhMyKoc100


And these were just off the top of my head.


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