# I Make Bad Decisions!



## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

I posted a while back about putting the man back in a man and didn't get much response (sorry if that post bored you all to tears, it was long!). I guess there isn't much advice to give, but I could surely use a virtual ear, if you don't mind.

Every step, every decision in this house, including the one to send him to another state for a job, has to be made by me. He completely refuses to be involved in decision making.

No matter how large or small the issue, it's like it's me against the world and with no one by my side. I don't feel like I make the greatest decisions, but still, the safety, security and future of my family rests entirely on my shoulders. I have 3 kids to look out for and I'm terrified that I'm doing it wrong.

I can't turn to him for comfort, advice or help. He'll do the manual labor, but that's about it. 

It's just so unbearably lonely, but from what I can tell, there's really nothing I can do to fix any of it. He seems to want the perks of being a family man without any of the investment into making it work. 

We're all happier now that he's working away from home, but he's going to come home soon and that's filling me with anxiety.

I don't want to be married and utterly alone.


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## ChknNoodleSoup (Oct 20, 2012)

I am so sorry you feel this way. Have you tried marriage counseling?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

If you FEEL like a single parent without a PARTNER pulling his fair share of the load, then TELL HIM SO.

He either gets ON BOARD with sincere and sustained change in the next couple of months, or you could just *BE* a single parent and have fewer worries (none about him) and the same stress/work load as you have now.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

What happens when the decisions you have to make don't go the way you planned or expected? Do you get berated for them?

To be honest with you what you're experiencing is what happened in my marriage although he would deny it if you asked him. The peace I feel now at only having to worry about myself and not have someone failing to stand by my side and be a f*cking man is really quite something

Feeling lonely in your marriage sucks - I hope you can get him to pull his finger out and start acting like an adult


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

ChknNoodleSoup said:


> I am so sorry you feel this way. Have you tried marriage counseling?


He's working 3 states away so I'm not sure how to go about it. Finances are extremely tight, but I did talk to someone online last night. Not what I wanted to hear - that I should divorce him.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> If you FEEL like a single parent without a PARTNER pulling his fair share of the load, then TELL HIM SO.
> 
> He either gets ON BOARD with sincere and sustained change in the next couple of months, or you could just *BE* a single parent and have fewer worries (none about him) and the same stress/work load as you have now.


We've been trying for years now. I want to try, for the kids' sake, but I fully realize these things aren't likely to change. It's been causing me so much turmoil over the past few months.



Dollystanford said:


> What happens when the decisions you have to make don't go the way you planned or expected? Do you get berated for them?
> 
> To be honest with you what you're experiencing is what happened in my marriage although he would deny it if you asked him. The peace I feel now at only having to worry about myself and not have someone failing to stand by my side and be a f*cking man is really quite something
> 
> Feeling lonely in your marriage sucks - I hope you can get him to pull his finger out and start acting like an adult


He doesn't say anything when things go wrong. He doesn't say anything when things go right. I honestly don't know what he's doing in this marriage. I think he's depressed, I know he has no self esteem but he might as well just be a bump on a log. The kids don't respect him, I don't respect him...<sigh> 

I'm glad you're at peace now. That gives me hope.  It is so much harder when you have to worry about the other person too, so I can imagine when they're not part of the equation things get much simpler.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I recommend self development. Develop a support network of friends, new hobbies, exercise, career development. So that when he is gone, he is "out of mind"- you are too busy enjoying your life to give him a second thought. 

IMO, you should not be going from making every decision for him to "divorce". Sounds to me like you are a mother not a wife at this point. So stop being his mother; stop making decisions for him and give him a few years to grow up.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

BarelyThere said:


> It is so much harder when you have to worry about the other person too, so I can imagine when they're not part of the equation things get much simpler.


You don't "have to worry about him". You are choosing to worry about him. You don't have to dump him to stop worrying about him. See above post.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

BarelyThere said:


> I can't turn to him for comfort, advice or help. He'll do the manual labor, but that's about it.


Must be lonely. You ask yourself why be married if this is the way it is going to be.

Was he like this before, or has some kind of depression set in? Is he like this with the outside world too, or just withdrawn in the marriage?


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

Blonde said:


> I recommend self development. Develop a support network of friends, new hobbies, exercise, career development. So that when he is gone, he is "out of mind"- you are too busy enjoying your life to give him a second thought.
> 
> IMO, you should not be going from making every decision for him to "divorce". Sounds to me like you are a mother not a wife at this point. So stop being his mother; stop making decisions for him and give him a few years to grow up.


That's excellent advice. I have been working toward making us a new life, so to speak. Since he left for work, I've lost 32 pounds, enrolled the oldest in preschool and am just enjoying my new-found independence. 

Finances are extremely tight. At first, I was able to afford a babysitter so I could write (indie publisher) and hopefully improve my own income, but part of our major marital trouble is what I feel was a huge betrayal where he blew off a job and left us with virtually no money in the bank. I was so terrified during that time that I'm scared to spend any money until we've built up a good emergency fund again. 

It's that betrayal that was the catalyst for me rethinking our relationship and future. I cannot trust him or depend on him to care for us anymore and I'm just waiting for him to lose this job, too.

Since most lifestyle changes, socializing, etc., tend to cost money, we're taking it slowly as funds allow. We've been trying out churches and trying to find ways to rejoin our local community. (By we, I'm dragging the kids along, LOL).

I have found that I'm taking back ownership of my life. Not sure how better to explain that, but it's easy to use the married "we" as a crutch I think, and now it's just me and my kids and I am finding joy in both life and motherhood that I previously didn't know.

It is all these things that make it difficult to envision a life where he comes home and we somehow make it work and be happy, because I don't know how to undo the awareness that we aren't compatible and he won't change.



Blonde said:


> You don't "have to worry about him". You are choosing to worry about him. You don't have to dump him to stop worrying about him. See above post.


I'm not taking responsibility for how he feels or acts, except to the extent that his actions affect my children. So I guess I'm worrying more about my family in relation to him. 



Wiserforit said:


> Must be lonely. You ask yourself why be married if this is the way it is going to be.
> 
> Was he like this before, or has some kind of depression set in? Is he like this with the outside world too, or just withdrawn in the marriage?


We married very quickly. It was rash and unwise, but here it is. I didn't really know him and in the years since, my priorities and maturity level have changed, but I'm not sure his have. Last year, I finally discovered what I want to be when I grow up :smthumbup: and that's really changed things because I feel he is stagnating when I'm just starting to bloom (typical 30's thing, isn't it?)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that you would benefit from reading the book "Divorce Busting".

The idea of you developing a support system is a very healthy way to handle this. Just make sure you don't have any non-family member males in your support system.


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I think that you would benefit from reading the book "Divorce Busting".
> 
> The idea of you developing a support system is a very healthy way to handle this. Just make sure you don't have any non-family member males in your support system.


Thank you. I just ordered it and it will be here Wed!

I did talk to another online counselor today who didn't tell me immediately to divorce, so I'm going to talk with her more. She did say he needs to come home, <groan>. I *know* that but it's hard to think of going back to that situation, even if it is for the sake of working on our marriage.

also found out that my ins. covers mental health - woohoo! Just a $15 copay, but the nearest office is 2 hrs away so I'm figuring that out still.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

BarelyThere said:


> I cannot trust him or depend on him to care for us anymore and I'm just waiting for him to lose this job, too.


Didn't know my husband had a twin! :scratchhead:

My husband has a history of frequent job losses- 10 jobs in 20 yrs. I used to work really hard helping him land jobs- looked for ads, typed his resume, mailed things, etc. He lost them over and over and over again...

I gave up and decided that whenever I was involved in that "mothering" type of assistance, he sabotaged himself. 

The next year, he lost two more jobs he got all by himself (the second one almost ruined our marriage because he was gone most of the time and had a sleazy affair with a co-worker). After 15 mos unemployment, he got another job and that's been steady for almost 3 years now. 

Not sure, but I think when I stopped "mothering" him through constant job issues, he grew up a lot.


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

Blonde said:


> Not sure, but I think when I stopped "mothering" him through constant job issues, he grew up a lot.


I'm at that point now, finally. I was filling out all the apps and doing the job hunts. Oh, how I hated doing that! So now I told him, "You want to come home, it's up to you to find a job here." 

In addition to not needing to be mothered, I expect it will give him some confidence to actually do something on his own.


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

...either that or he'll never make it home, which would be alright with me. At least for the near future.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I always ask myself what the other side of the story is. 

In this post, I see where you said you had a long discussion and he told you what you didn't want to hear - to get a divorce. How often does he make the suggestions and you make decisions that ignore his suggestions?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Kathy,

She talked to "someone online" who told her to get a divorce. That wasn't her husband saying that. 

And if it was her husband saying it, strikes me as odd that you (a relationship counselor) would pick "divorce" out as the advice a spouse should be embracing immediately... Are there any marriages that would survive?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Oh... I didn't get that she heard it online.

Also, I'm not saying she should divorce. It sounded like her husband *was* willing to put his opinions out there if he'd said she should get a divorce when she complained about making all the decisions. 

But I am not and have never been a relationships counselor. I was a drug and alcohol counselor previously. My expertise on relationships is based on the school of hard knocks, like the rest of us, and I've found some of the exercises that I've either done myself or used with patients to be helpful with relationship issues, but I'm not a qualified therapist. It took me MANY years to learn how to "be" in relationships that are healthy and supportive, and even then nothing's foolproof!


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

That advice was from someone at the online counseling link on this forum. I was pretty appalled that he jumped right to that conclusion so I talked to someone different the next day who had the opposite opinion. I'll see if talking more with her helps and I am trying to work out a plan to attend IC in the city 2 hours away.

I talked with DH some last night and feel better just for getting more off my chest. It's the same stuff I've *been* telling him for years, but I am more inclined to pursue a fix than just let it drop this time. He always agrees, says yes we should fix things, and then nothing changes.

At least if I put it all out there, I've done what I can to get him to see my point of view. What he does with it is up to him, but I'm trying.

He says being away over there has made him realize how much he loves us, but whether or not he's willing to make an effort remains to be seen.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Barely, your scenario is pretty common it seems. Your husband isn't owning up to part of his responsibility as a partner. Instead he's being mentally lazy.

It's not very attractive qualities in a man (or anyone) so I can imagine you're battling with a loss of respect and feeling a little guilty about it. It sets the stage for a parent child relationship.

It's a matter of time before his passive and indecisive personality will make his life and yours miserable. I'm sure you would like for him to step up and give you reason to respect him. Have him read NMMNG but don't let him get carried away with it. Maybe someone else will point out better material.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

BarelyThere said:


> He's working 3 states away so I'm not sure how to go about it. Finances are extremely tight, but I did talk to someone online last night. Not what I wanted to hear - that I should divorce him.


Everything is true that you read on the internet. Read that on the internet. What a quack to give you that advice...hope you didn't pay for that advice.

One thing is for sure. You have built up alot of resentment and that is poison to any marriage. MC is in order with a PRO-Marriage counselor, not an internet ad.

My question to you is: Has his role always been like this or is this something new? Nothing is ever 50-50 in a marriage, and some closer than others, but it sounds like you are 90 -10 or worse. Again, has it always been like this or could this be depression? If it is depression, it can be corrected.

But first, if you want to save the marriage, you need to deal with that building resentment. Poison!


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

Those Ads are not very professional in my eyes. When they were posting the Divorce help in the Reconcilliation section, it was clear it was all about the money from both sides. 

No actual caring counsellor would put their own ad out like that.

Sorry TAM. But not very good.


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> It's not very attractive qualities in a man (or anyone) so I can imagine you're battling with a loss of respect and feeling a little guilty about it. It sets the stage for a parent child relationship.


I have lost all respect for him, and I realized I was doing a poor job of hiding it. I'm working hard on that, both when we talk on the phone and in person.

The *real* trouble here is that I feel he deeply betrayed his family. That's what I can't get over. The rest of it is stuff I've lived with all these years but this summer he taught me that it will always be this way.

He blew off a job, the job I told him to get or get out, to do a seasonal job that never materialized. Then, he did it twice more in the span of about 6 weeks. The end result is that we were down to $13 in the bank and had to borrow money, the first time ever. Now I know that I can never count on him and he will not protect his children.

Trust doesn't come easy for me and he completely destroyed my trust in him. What man leaves his wife and kids alone and without money? If my writing supported us, I probably would have divorced him then, but I can't provide all alone. 

I'm hoping to work on getting over that, but there's no future for us if he can't start caring about himself more and being willing to say no to other people, such as those who convinced him to blow off the job for the seasonal thing.



This is me said:


> Everything is true that you read on the internet. Read that on the internet. What a quack to give you that advice...hope you didn't pay for that advice.
> 
> It was the LivePerson counseling seemingly endorsed by TAM. So yep, I paid for it, and yep, what a quack. I thought it was something managed by TAM since it's part of the navbar links across the top. Ah well, lesson learned.
> 
> ...


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm a bit of a traditionalist. Even a chauvinist by some standards but I think it's very important for men to provide for and defend their family. I like that my wife works because she wants to and not because she has to. It's not always been that way early on but it was the goal.

Making decision, even if it's just half of them is something adults do. When someone doesn't want to make any choices or decisions, it screams immaturity. My recommendation is to search for areas where you enable him to let you do things for him. Too often we don't let the other person do anything because they won't do it the way we like or as good as we would.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

BarelyThere said:


> I have lost all respect for him, and I realized I was doing a poor job of hiding it. I'm working hard on that, both when we talk on the phone and in person.
> 
> The *real* trouble here is that I feel he deeply betrayed his family. That's what I can't get over. The rest of it is stuff I've lived with all these years but this summer he taught me that it will always be this way.
> 
> ...


Did you ever discuss how much each of you would contribute to the marriage? As you've said, it's clear that you resent this, and that you perceive it as a betrayal. However, if you've been an outgoing, confident decision-maker in other ways, he might have been trying to get you to contribute more to the family financially, too. You feel betrayed because he didn't provide financial support when you're doing the same thing in a way if you're trying to support yourself with writing but you say you don't bring in enough to do so. Is this a double standard?


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Did you ever discuss how much each of you would contribute to the marriage? As you've said, it's clear that you resent this, and that you perceive it as a betrayal. However, if you've been an outgoing, confident decision-maker in other ways, he might have been trying to get you to contribute more to the family financially, too. You feel betrayed because he didn't provide financial support when you're doing the same thing in a way if you're trying to support yourself with writing but you say you don't bring in enough to do so. Is this a double standard?


We agreed when we had kids that he would provide for us and I would take care of the kids. He's never consistently done that. The reason I started writing was to try to hedge against the constant unemployment. 

He's had five jobs in five years and only worked about half of those years - unemployed the rest of the time. We tried me writing full-time for a year and it didn't work. He was miserable, the kids were miserable and we both agreed that he should go back to work. He _said he wanted_ to go back to work. 

The day he got his current job, it was right after I called his mother in tears, asking her to talk to him because he wasn't even trying to get a job, despite the fact that he was over in the other state to find work. That was when we had run completely out of money, and he was sitting in his camp trailer watching movies while I was panicking about our finances.

I told her, like I'd told him, that he needed to do what he said he would do and find a job or we were done. Literally an hour after she called him, he had a job.

I don't feel like I have options to provide for my kids. We live in an extremely economically depressed area and child care costs more for my 3 than I could hope to get from a job. I can write, but only in between caring for 3 small children. I am gradually building up my income, but it's not enough to support us. Right now, it all goes into savings so that we have a chance of surviving when he loses the next job. 

I'm more than willing to own my share of the problems. I have been talking to him about what I feel I've done wrong and inviting him to do the same. I am seeking IC. In this instance though, I don't think the blame is on me. _He promised to provide for us and broke that promise._


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I'm a bit of a traditionalist. Even a chauvinist by some standards but I think it's very important for men to provide for and defend their family. I like that my wife works because she wants to and not because she has to. It's not always been that way early on but it was the goal.
> 
> Making decision, even if it's just half of them is something adults do. When someone doesn't want to make any choices or decisions, it screams immaturity. My recommendation is to search for areas where you enable him to let you do things for him. Too often we don't let the other person do anything because they won't do it the way we like or as good as we would.


It's very traditional where we live. That's what I grew up to expect and that's what we agreed on. Other scenarios work well for other people, but I agree with you; men should provide for and defend their family. He does neither.

I think I'm a good enabler. While he has been this way since we married, I'm certain I have made it worse. It's just easier to deal with it, just like when raising a kid, it's easier to do it yourself than wait for the other person to get up and get things done.

This period of being apart is helping in that respect, I think. I still handle finances, etc., but he has to manage his daily life and do his own job searching. On the other hand, I think he likes having the freedom and lack of responsibility over there with not having to deal with kids/us/life, so I suspect he won't really push too hard to move back home.

I forgot earlier...what was that book you mentioned? I haven't heard of it before and couldn't figure out what it stood for.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I think you saw a reference to HNHN, which is His Needs, Her Needs. 

So what will you do if the situation doesn't change?


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## BarelyThere (Dec 31, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> So what will you do if the situation doesn't change?


Not really sure. I need to build up my own income to the point that it can support us. Even if I don't need it to, at least I won't feel so vulnerable to his whims. Knowing I *could* take care of my kids might make it so I don't feel so disappointed in him and maybe I could work past this better.

I just imagine what it might be like to be with someone who was an equal partner. I find that I am quite affected when someone is nice to me. Like I've been carrying these burdens alone for so long and all I need is someone to understand and support me, even if it's the bagger at the grocery store saying something nice. 

I know I've got a little of the grass is greener syndrome going on, but really, I suspect the grass probably _is_ greener. I just can't go grazing yet. 

I imagine we'll probably divorce at some point. Right now though, I want to do my best to provide a stable environment for my kids. Since H is not physically here, there's no pressure to decide things right now.

Time can only improve things as the kids get older and I continue to work on my own issues. Who knows? A year down the road, we might have worked things out and be in good shape.

It's just that type of lonely that only a real partner can fix. I wish I could turn that off, because it wouldn't seem so hard to keep going the way it is.


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