# Am I overreacting



## Hacker1234

I have a weird feeling something isn't right, but maybe it is nothing.
Wife and I have been married close to 20 years. We have 3 kids and we both have successful careers. Our marriage is good, no real problems other than the regular issues in life we all face. Sometimes I do forget to take out the trash. Sex life has zero issues and very regular. I would say we have it pretty good.

However over the past couple months something has been bugging me. The owner of the business she works at, she talks about him a lot. She will come home and say, he said this or did that. She talks him up all the time. Recently she got a raise out of nowhere, turns out it she was the only one.

I have looked at her phone, they do text but it is only work related stuff. All harmless. They are not friends on Facebook. There is nothing out of the ordinary in her activities.

Last night, she brought him up again. And I made a snarky reply like oh your boy friend did that. She laughed.

Later that night, I am in the yard doing some work. I must have struck a nerve, because she brought up what I said. I let her know that her talking about him all the time is bugging me. Then she said oh don't worry he is married with kids. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.

Then later we sat in bed for a while and chatted about stuff. We did have sex, which I did find interesting. Because normally she has an issue if we do it on consecutive days. We had done it the night before.

So I don't know. Maybe it is nothing, maybe she likes the guy or something. At this point I know there is nothing physical.

What are your thoughts.


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## OnTheFly

Divorce! (channelling my inner GusPolinski)

Seriously though. 

Probably nothing, or it could be something (less than 1% chance, IMO)

As practical advice, I'd say, let it be, but keep a tab on comms between them.

It seems she has taken seriously your concerns. But the phrase ''but he's married with kids'' COULD be problematic. Some waywards (not accusing your wife of being one) say this to distract the husband, and some say it out of naïveté.

Seeing as this came out of left field for you, I'd also suggest that you read in this Coping With Infidelity forum. Read as many origin stories as possible. It'll give you a feel of what men/women are capable of when entering affairs. It's actually pretty gross and depressing, but knowledge is power.


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## Kamstel2

Always trust your gut.

If your gut is telling you something is wrong, then something is wrong.

You need to start investigating.

Can you get access to her phone and email? That is imperative. Check out all threads and conversations, do not pass one by just because it says it belongs to another woman.

Also, keep your eyes open and your mouth shut

Good luck
Stay strong


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## marcy*

It’s hard to tell from the info you gave us, but I have been in your wife’s position, I used to talk to my hubby about coworkers. He gave me an attitude and would make me feel bad, would say things like, “ Why you talk to him, he is probably hitting on you, and blahblah.” It didn’t matter even if the coworker was 80 years old or older. So I stopped telling him anything. My hubby is not an understanding person. He doesn’t believe that there can be just friendship between a woman and a man. He doesn’t want me to have any social interactions or even work related conversations with male coworker. He is very narrow minded, mostly because of the jobs he has had- he had to work mostly by himself, or deal only with male. I just gave up sharing with him and it is sad because I really feel like sharing, but no thank you. I don’t like unnecessary drama. But if you have read my posts, my marriage is far from a healthy one .


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## Tdbo

I have always been burned when I didn't follow my intuition.
From what you said, at this point a "Trust but Verify" stance would be your best path.
Monitor conversations, how she uses her phone, strange behavior, "Overtime", etc.
I agree with checking out her phone, texting, e mails, etc.If you normally have access to it, it should be easy.
You may want to have a laptop near by with a recovery program (Such as Dr. Fone.) She may have cleared her phone after you shared your concern previously. I would do so AQAP, before the info is wiped.
Accidentally grab it, ask to make a call because yours is dead, etc. Whatever works without the least amount of suspicion.
Don't struggle with "Her privacy." If you are married, the only privacy you should have is the toilet.
Act normal. Gather information. Do not let her know what you suspect.
If you find a series of actions that look bad, confront decisively. Do not disclose your source.
Hopefully all is well. Best of luck


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## Hacker1234

Talking about co workers is fine. We both do it, and for years. But this one struck me as strange. She complains about stuff here and there and so do I. But she has been just talking him up and how all the great things he does. I get it, when my boss something great too I will bring it up. But gosh it just seems just a little bit much.


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## TAMAT

Hacker,

Drop the discussion for now and go into detective mode as if you forgot about it.

If something is happening then your W will go further underground and you will lose valuable information.

What do you know about the potential OM?

Was he divorced multiple times?

Were there rumors about him?

Did women in the past quit suddenly without explanation?

I can tell you that some OM use a very gradual approach when seeking to start an affair.

Is he older or younger than your W?

With my W OM1 and OM3 were spoken of quite a lot by her as it was part of the process of her overcoming her initial guilt.

Then the talk ended when it got more serious.


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## Hacker1234

Yup I will drop it all now. I don't know much about the OM. Looks like he has been married for years has a couple kids. He is a little younger than my W and taller then I am. For sure makes more then I do.


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## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> Yup I will drop it all now. I don't know much about the OM. Looks like he has been married for years has a couple kids. He is a little younger than my W and taller then I am. For sure makes more then I do.


Your gut is always right. If your W is talking up a coworker then there is an interest. The "oh he is married" comment amounts to nothing. You can always ask..."If he was not married then what?" Some WW also say, "oh he is gay". Don't mean crap either. What the OM looks like and makes does not mean much. Keep vigilant.

For now, stop what you are doing and start dating your W. She should be talking you up.


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## [email protected]

Yeswecan is right. Trust your gut.


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## cocolo2019

TAMAT said:


> Hacker,
> 
> Drop the discussion for now and go into detective mode as if you forgot about it.
> 
> If something is happening then your W will go further underground and you will lose valuable information.
> 
> What do you know about the potential OM?
> 
> Was he divorced multiple times?
> 
> Were there rumors about him?
> 
> Did women in the past quit suddenly without explanation?
> 
> I can tell you that some OM use a very gradual approach when seeking to start an affair.
> 
> Is he older or younger than your W?
> 
> With my W OM1 and OM3 were spoken of quite a lot by her as it was part of the process of her overcoming her initial guilt.
> 
> Then the talk ended when it got more serious.


This OP. This.

Also, for what I have read here, you can get a VAR (voice activate recorder) a put it in her car below the driver's seat, attached to a Velcro. But something important, you have to put yourself in Full Stealth Mode. I am not 100% bilingual and I would like to elaborate more,.
My recommendation: read the newbie thread.


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## Robert22205

Does he work directly for him? 
How long has she worked for him?

Why did she get a raise (because she's better than anyone else or because of her increased experience level)?

Why exactly does she admire him (does she admire what he actually did (impersonal) - or his personality (personal))?

Do they spend time alone or travel together (lunches, conferences, sales calls)?

You know your wife better than us. So if after all these years you notice that she has an unusual level of interest in or admiration for her boss, then you should be alert.


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## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> I have a weird feeling something isn't right, but maybe it is nothing.
> Wife and I have been married close to 20 years. We have 3 kids and we both have successful careers. Our marriage is good, no real problems other than the regular issues in life we all face. Sometimes I do forget to take out the trash. Sex life has zero issues and very regular. I would say we have it pretty good.
> 
> However over the past couple months something has been bugging me. The owner of the business she works at, she talks about him a lot. She will come home and say, he said this or did that. She talks him up all the time. *Recently she got a raise out of nowhere, turns out it she was the only one.*
> 
> I have looked at her phone, they do text but it is only work related stuff. All harmless. They are not friends on Facebook. There is nothing out of the ordinary in her activities.
> 
> Last night, she brought him up again. And I made a snarky reply like oh your boy friend did that. She laughed.
> 
> Later that night, I am in the yard doing some work. I must have struck a nerve, because she brought up what I said. I let her know that her talking about him all the time is bugging me. Then she said oh don't worry he is married with kids. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.
> 
> Then later we sat in bed for a while and chatted about stuff. *We did have sex, which I did find interesting. Because normally she has an issue if we do it on consecutive days. We had done it the night before.*
> 
> So I don't know. Maybe it is nothing, maybe she likes the guy or something. At this point I know there is nothing physical.
> 
> What are your thoughts.


I see a couple of flags there, not sure how red they are. I think it's worth investigating. You need to be in eyes/ears open mouth shut mode now, don't bring up anything more about this while you're investigating. Act as normal as possible.

Office affairs can be hard to catch if it's all happening in the office. Do you have access to her work email or messaging? If either of them are experienced cheaters they'll keep it off their personal phones. A var in her car might catch her in a phone call to or about him, people tend to feel safe from being over heard in their car so they talk freely. Note that anything you get this way is top secret, you never admit to this to her. It's also common for a cheater to have a toxic friend or family member they're confiding in, so you need to be checking her messages to them also. 

I hope you're barking up the wrong tree. Keep us posted on what you find, lots of experience at catching cheaters here. 

Remember, eyes open, mouth shut.


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## Livvie

Yes, the reply to your concern being "he's married and has kids" does nothing to dispell your concern. It kind of answers only why nothing is currently going on between them (basically she was saying HE can't). Notice she didn't answer, I'm a married woman and would never do something to betray our marriage, or better, you have nothing to worry about, I don't find him attractive. 

Sometimes the answer isn't in the answer given, but in what WASN'T said. 

i think she at least has a crush on him. Given the unexpected raise, I wonder if it goes both ways.

How you want to handle the probable situation of her having a crush on him and working with him every day is up to you. 

I worked with a pair in an office who were both married, kids, etc. who were into each other big time and it was truly gross and disgusting to see, because they were both married. If either of their spouses had seen how gooey they were with each other in person I have no doubt at least one of the marriages would have ended.


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## OutofRetirement

Hacker1234 said:


> I must have struck a nerve, because she brought up what I said. I let her know that her talking about him all the time is bugging me. Then she said oh *don't worry he is married with kids*. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.
> 
> Yup I will drop it all now. I don't know much about the OM. Looks like he has been married for years has a couple kids. He is a little younger than my W and taller then I am. For sure makes more then I do.


I find it typical in a cheating mindset to say that (don't worry he is married with kids). I also find it very concerning that, to paraphrase your wife's statement *"thank God he is married with kids or else you would have something to worry about."*

My sister's (ex)husband was cheating with his employee. He had five employees and he had a lump sum to distribute bonuses as he saw fit. My sister discovered the cheating because he had been working on the bonus distribution and she looked at it and noticed that one young woman was getting the lion's share of the bonus, and the remaining four employees were getting very little. On top of that, he had told my sister a number of times that two of those other employees were the only "really good ones" he had. About two weeks later, a guy called up my sister on the phone and said_ "you don't know me but your husband is having an affair with my wife and I have proof"_ - it was the young woman who was getting the by-far largest bonus.

Trust your gut.


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## Hacker1234

Hey Everyone, thanks for the advice.

I am trying to get my head around this. I think most likely it is nothing, worse case at the moment she may like the guy.

He has been the boss a couple months now, she did ask for a raise because it has been 2 years since she got one.

What I do know is that he is only in the office a couple times a week for maybe 2 hours or so.

A possible new red flag, she has been telling me she hates working. We did the math and if I could earn about 20 percent more. My income would be enough alone so she could stop working. I brought up I have an interview next week that would hit that mark if I got it. Suddenly she isn't so interested in quitting. She gave some good reasons, about saving more cash, things like that. I found it a little odd. Maybe because the times we are in. Not sure.

One other thing. Something weird happened about 5 years ago. There was a stretch of about 3 months or so. Where she was just incredibly horny. Like something I have not seen since we first started dating. I did think something was up, but could not find a thing. I thought hmmmm maybe some kind of affair. She isn't doing that now, everything seems normal.


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## Evinrude58

Hacker1234 said:


> Yup I will drop it all now. I don't know much about the OM. Looks like he has been married for years has a couple kids. He is a little younger than my W and taller then I am. For sure makes more then I do.


He’s married—- means nothing.
He could be an incredibly ugly door head —- if he’s giving her attention and patting her on the back—- that is all it might take. She’d think he was a Greek god.

Full on detective mode, say nothing more about it. If you think something is wrong..... 99% chance it is.
Sorry.


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## mickybill

Hacker1234 said:


> A possible new red flag, she has been telling me she hates working We did the math and if I could earn about 20 percent more. My income would be enough alone so she could stop working. I brought up I have an interview next week that would hit that mark if I got it.Suddenly she isn't so interested in quitting. She gave some good reasons, about saving more cash, things like that. I found it a little odd. Maybe because the times we are in. Not sure.


That's odd, I agree. Did you ask why she hated working, then the reversal? 
If he was there all the time, maybe there was some interaction between them and something happened like she flirted and was rejected by him...so she was embarrassed. 
Like you say it could be the times as things are pretty wacky. 
As my 5th grade social studies teacher used to say "Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth closed" if you smell smoke it could be a fire in your house, or the neighbors fired up the BBQ.


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## Evinrude58

Hacker1234 said:


> Hey Everyone, thanks for the advice.
> 
> I am trying to get my head around this. I think most likely it is nothing, worse case at the moment she may like the guy.
> 
> He has been the boss a couple months now, she did ask for a raise because it has been 2 years since she got one.
> 
> What I do know is that he is only in the office a couple times a week for maybe 2 hours or so.
> 
> A possible new red flag, she has been telling me she hates working. We did the math and if I could earn about 20 percent more. My income would be enough alone so she could stop working. I brought up I have an interview next week that would hit that mark if I got it. Suddenly she isn't so interested in quitting. She gave some good reasons, about saving more cash, things like that. I found it a little odd. Maybe because the times we are in. Not sure.
> 
> One other thing. Something weird happened about 5 years ago. There was a stretch of about 3 months or so. Where she was just incredibly horny. Like something I have not seen since we first started dating. I did think something was up, but could not find a thing. I thought hmmmm maybe some kind of affair. She isn't doing that now, everything seems normal.


If she’s in her mid thirties to early 40’s, could have just been hormones. But yes, huge red flag. Most of the time, there’s other flags in an affair though.

if the guy at work is constantly on her mind, you have a problem. Big or medium problem, still a problem.

ask her to go on a vacation with you for a week far off, preferably out if range if cell signal. See how that goes.

if she guards her phone, bad.
If she has a burner phone, horrible.
If she has a work phone, see how she guards it...


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## cocolo2019

OP I have to make a caveat first: I have never been cheated on in a marriage because I am single. Though I think a girlfriend from my past cheated on me, but it never compares to a marriage. 
Anyways, having said that, even though I am not a BH, I can guarantee you I have learned a lot while lurking in here. I am not a guru or an expert but my recommendation is that you put your poker face on yourself and, as I said before, go on a full stealth mode, follow your guts and never rugsweep that feeling. 
I read a lot in here that cheaters like to talk. Of course if they got a hint that the BS suspects something, they will go underground. But if they feel safe they will talk a lot because they to keep the adrenaline rush on. 
So, if you can buy a Voice Activate Recorder and put in to your wife's car and there's something going on, the probability you catch her is very high.
There could be nothing, but a least confirming that there is nothing going on, that will put you at ease.
Here also recommend never reveal your sources; and always clean your browser history. Because if a wayward finds out the BS is surfing the web and looking for infidelity sites that would alert the wayward. 

Sorry for my syntax but English is my second language.


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## Robert22205

Look on her phone for a messaging APP that automatically deletes texts.

Observe your phone bill to see if they talk or text outside of business hours.

Turn on her cell phone GPS. So you can verify she's where she said she was.

Consider syncing her cell phone to her/your laptop.

One way to get her phone is to buy her a new one. Take the old phone and run recover software on it.
Set up the new phone yourself, sync to your laptop.


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## Kamstel2

I have three words of advice for you

polygraph
Polygraph
POLYGRAPH!!


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## jlg07

IF you are unsure, a PI may be able to get some information by watching them at work...


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## ConanHub

Hacker1234 said:


> Talking about co workers is fine. We both do it, and for years. But this one struck me as strange. She complains about stuff here and there and so do I. But she has been just talking him up and how all the great things he does. I get it, when my boss something great too I will bring it up. But gosh it just seems just a little bit much.


Trust your gut.

Something is off. Might be in the infancy stage of infidelity but something is amiss.

She changed her established sexual behavior with you because you brought up the issue.

Something is off.


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## EleGirl

Hacker1234 said:


> A possible new red flag, she has been telling me she hates working. We did the math and if I could earn about 20 percent more. My income would be enough alone so she could stop working. I brought up I have an interview next week that would hit that mark if I got it. Suddenly she isn't so interested in quitting. She gave some good reasons, about saving more cash, things like that. I found it a little odd. Maybe because the times we are in. Not sure.


You said that your wife has a successful career. It could be that when you brought up her quitting she realized that her career is something that she has worked hard on. It's not easy to just give up on something you've put so much into.

Something else to keep in mind is that if she was not working, it would be easier for her to have an affair. Her time would be much more flexible.



Hacker1234 said:


> One other thing. Something weird happened about 5 years ago. There was a stretch of about 3 months or so. Where she was just incredibly horny. Like something I have not seen since we first started dating. I did think something was up, but could not find a thing. I thought hmmmm maybe some kind of affair. She isn't doing that now, everything seems normal.


What was going on at the time. Did she start or stop some medication? Did she make some diet changes that lasted only a few months?

How old are your children?


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## skerzoid

Hacker1234:

*You don't know how many times we have heard the "Don't worry, he's married with kids", and then find out the Original Poster (OP) SHOULD have been worried because they were banging like rabbits*. Investigate, investigate, investigate. If you can afford a Private Investigator, they cost, but not as much as a divorce. Better get on it, but stay in the back ground. If there is something going on, you will drive it underground and make it that much harder to catch.
There are about as many red flags here as a Chinese May Day Parade.


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## secretsheriff

Kamstel2 said:


> I have three words of advice for you
> 
> polygraph
> Polygraph
> POLYGRAPH!!


Seriously?

How ridiculous


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## Hacker1234

I was just overreacting. Phone records line up perfectly, google maps timeline look good. Having sex on consecutive days was strange but not terribly uncommon, our sex life is actually pretty good. I think it was just me weirding out because her boss is a guy, thinking back she used to talk about her old boss all the time and it didn't bug me because she was a women.

I read all the oldshirt topics. I don't appear to be in any real trouble.

I did learn a lot of stuff though. So I have reengaged in all those areas that could cause issues.


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## bandit.45

Hacker1234 said:


> Talking about co workers is fine. We both do it, and for years. But this one struck me as strange. She complains about stuff here and there and so do I. But she has been just talking him up and how all the great things he does. I get it, when my boss something great too I will bring it up. But gosh it just seems just a little bit much.


When there is some new behavior that is inexplicable, then something is going on. She may not be in an affair yet, but every affair starts with a thought, then action. She's in the thinking stage. Be vigilant, do some covert sleuthing as others have mentioned, and don't feel ashamed for standing up for your marriage.


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## Hacker1234

I have an interesting update.

I looked at the google history, didn't even know that existed, very interesting.

I did find 2 things.

I noticed she had googled a random number that called my cell.

2nd item was that she did a google search for the OM twice. Also while she isn't facebook friends with the OM, I noticed she did look at his Facebook profile 3 different times last month. And other 4 times in the months before.


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## jlg07

Hacker1234 said:


> I have an interesting update.
> 
> I looked at the google history, didn't even know that existed, very interesting.
> 
> I did find 2 things.
> 
> I noticed she had googled a random number that called my cell.
> 
> 2nd item was that she did a google search for the OM twice. Also while she isn't facebook friends with the OM, I noticed she did look at his Facebook profile 3 different times last month. And other 4 times in the months before.


So, sounds like there IS interest there from your wife's side of things at least. Seems that she is attracted to him.
Please be vigilant. If you see any uptick in activity, and PI may be in order.


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## Marduk

Hacker1234 said:


> I have an interesting update.
> 
> I looked at the google history, didn't even know that existed, very interesting.
> 
> I did find 2 things.
> 
> I noticed she had googled a random number that called my cell.
> 
> 2nd item was that she did a google search for the OM twice. Also while she isn't facebook friends with the OM, I noticed she did look at his Facebook profile 3 different times last month. And other 4 times in the months before.


Interesting. Did you discover who's number that was? Did she google it after whoever it was called you, or before?


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## GC1234

I don't know. My husband and I talk about other people in relation to work etc, but no one in particular. A while back he would talk about his former neighbor that he grew up with...after the third time, I told him I don't really care and don't want to hear about her anymore...and that was that. But I might keep tabs on her just to make sure.


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## Hacker1234

GC1234 said:


> I don't know. My husband and I talk about other people in relation to work etc, but no one in particular. A while back he would talk about his former neighbor that he grew up with...after the third time, I told him I don't really care and don't want to hear about her anymore...and that was that. But I might keep tabs on her just to make sure.


I am with you there, I think it is nothing.


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## Hacker1234

Marduk said:


> Interesting. Did you discover who's number that was? Did she google it after whoever it was called you, or before?


Yeah it was just some random that came up on the screen while we were driving, she was like who is that? I said I have no idea and let it roll. She much have googled it right there.


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## cocolo2019

OP, I am not saying that your wife is a cheater, but a lot of cheaters try to find spouses' flaws related to cheating in order to justify their actions. My recommendation is put a keylogger in your computer and a VAR for two weeks, just to weeks because you don't want to be a warden all your life. If you don't get anything then is very probable is nothing. Also, I don't know if you did already but here people recommend to read the newbie thread.
Oldshirt's thread is useful when you already found an infidelity from a wife you never thought she would be capable of, but the newbie thread give you techniques and insights when you have an infidelity hunch.


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## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> I am with you there, I think it is nothing.


I don't. That is a lot of FB looking.


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## cocolo2019

Something important OP. When did she search for her boss on Google? You said he has been her boss for two months, right? Was the search at the beginning of him working there as her boss? If it was, that is pretty common to look for information about the new boss. Now if the search was recently or at the time she got a raise, or if she was talking a lot about him then suddenly stopped, you better be on alert and stealth mode. Especially when your guts are telling you something. That is was we call the six sense.


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## Hacker1234

I did think about that too, I have google searched my new boss before. And yes those searches were around the time he started. The Facebook ones are new. However she did look up other coworkers too. So maybe just nothing.


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## Music_Man

@Hacker1234 

This is almost exactly the way things started with my W. Talking about the OM, mentioning funny things he did or said, etc. That she searched for him and viewed his Facebook profile multiple times is a bit of a red flag. 

Here's my advice: Don't convince yourself she's having an affair based on the little evidence you have, but also DON'T convince yourself that she's not or that she's not capable. 

Sow into your marriage. Ask her to read Not Just Friends- in fact, read it together and discuss each chapter when finished. 

Whatever you do, don't dismiss the red flags and don't maintain the status quo in your marriage. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Yeswecan

Music_Man said:


> @Hacker1234
> 
> This is almost exactly the way things started with my W. Talking about the OM, mentioning funny things he did or said, etc. That she searched for him and viewed his Facebook profile multiple times is a bit of a red flag.
> 
> Here's my advice: Don't convince yourself she's having an affair based on the little evidence you have, but also DON'T convince yourself that she's not or that she's not capable.
> 
> Sow into your marriage. Ask her to read Not Just Friends- in fact, read it together and discuss each chapter when finished.
> 
> Whatever you do, don't dismiss the red flags and don't maintain the status quo in your marriage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Talk boundaries. Sowing into your marriage is the bigger thing. Your W should be talking you up. Always date your W.


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## Gabriel

I think you are doing the right thing by at least having your antennae up. Breaking this down a bit

1) This boss is new, like 2 months, and she talks him up a lot. So she is happy about this new boss.
2) She is curious about him. Already knows he is married with three kids. Googled him, looked at his Facebook several times.
3) She has talked about other bosses before.
4) Your gut has brought you to an infidelity marriage forum

My take, is that she is impressed by this guy and he has peaked her interest. But she hasn't pursued him or done anything wrong. Yet. I think you should put her on notice now, before her curiosity and high impression blooms into something more. Piss on your tree a little bit, but don't go overboard. 

And watch her behavior, as follows:

1) If she is on her phone a lot more than before, and sometimes puts her phone down when you walk in the room
2) If she is suddenly very attached to her phone like her life depends on it
3) If she starts putting a password on it (if not already) or changes it (if one already exists)
4) If she suddenly doesn't care as much about what you are talking about (distracted)
5) If she frustrates more easily
6) If sex is noticeably more passionate or less passionate

You should be okay but keep listening to your gut and do the above.


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## Music_Man

Yeswecan said:


> Talk boundaries. Sowing into your marriage is the bigger thing. Your W should be talking you up. Always date your W.


Effective boundaries are essential. No doubt about it. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Hacker1234

Gabriel said:


> I think you are doing the right thing by at least having your antennae up. Breaking this down a bit
> 
> 1) This boss is new, like 2 months, and she talks him up a lot. So she is happy about this new boss.
> 2) She is curious about him. Already knows he is married with three kids. Googled him, looked at his Facebook several times.
> 3) She has talked about other bosses before.
> 4) Your gut has brought you to an infidelity marriage forum
> 
> My take, is that she is impressed by this guy and he has peaked her interest. But she hasn't pursued him or done anything wrong. Yet. I think you should put her on notice now, before her curiosity and high impression blooms into something more. Piss on your tree a little bit, but don't go overboard.
> 
> And watch her behavior, as follows:
> 
> 1) If she is on her phone a lot more than before, and sometimes puts her phone down when you walk in the room
> 2) If she is suddenly very attached to her phone like her life depends on it
> 3) If she starts putting a password on it (if not already) or changes it (if one already exists)
> 4) If she suddenly doesn't care as much about what you are talking about (distracted)
> 5) If she frustrates more easily
> 6) If sex is noticeably more passionate or less passionate
> 
> You should be okay but keep listening to your gut and do the above.


Thanks for the advice.

At the moment 1 thru 5 are not happening at all. Number 6 I noticed a slight uptick last week, but nothing really uncommon for us. We are now back to our normal schedule, like every other day or skip 2 days.

So what do I do now? I went silent on it. But last week I told her I didn't want to hear about him anymore. Just watch? If she gets weird take a stand?

Thanks


----------



## Livvie

So she searched him in some way 7 times already. That's a lot. Once or twice should have been enough if it was just curiosity about the new boss. 

She has a crush on him/is interested in him. 

How you want to deal with that is up to you. It sucks that it's a man she works with, rather than someone she hardly sees.


----------



## Hoosier

My wife of 30 years. Started working out. As part of her workout she played racquet ball with a group of guys. She talked about one in particular, even pointing him out to me when we saw them in public (small town) I didnt think a thing of it. after about a year, she quit working out. A year later she ran off with a good friend of mine. Turns out he was the 2nd affair she had, Mr racquetball was #1. TRUST YOUR GUT. STEALTH. If itis nothing then all the better.


----------



## cocolo2019

Music_Man said:


> @Hacker1234
> 
> This is almost exactly the way things started with my W. Talking about the OM, mentioning funny things he did or said, etc. That she searched for him and viewed his Facebook profile multiple times is a bit of a red flag.
> 
> Here's my advice: Don't convince yourself she's having an affair based on the little evidence you have, but also DON'T convince yourself that she's not or that she's not capable.
> 
> Sow into your marriage. Ask her to read Not Just Friends- in fact, read it together and discuss each chapter when finished.
> 
> Whatever you do, don't dismiss the red flags and don't maintain the status quo in your marriage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


The problem is that there is not a silver bullet, just a hunch. If he offers her to red Not Just Friends and something is cooking right know or about to be cooked in a hidden the pot, he will give her a tip and everything could go underground.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP also very if she looked for his (boos) wife. If she did, this could be a red flag. Women are well known to be very competitive among each other for a male attraction. Is in the subconscious. This is what is called: Female Intrasexual Competition


----------



## Hacker1234

As far as I can tell, she did not.


----------



## ABHale

I can understand stand looking someone up. What is a red flag for me is doing it repeatedly over a couple of months.


----------



## Hacker1234

I just messed up real bad. Not sure what to think. I had her phone and I was looking at their texts, all of them normal work stuff from the morning. But according to the log she sent one text later in the afternoon and it was deleted.

I was shaken up by this. I handed her phone back and laid it all out. Asked her if she likes the guy and whats going on. She got pissed off that I was looking thru her stuff. She never did answer the question about the deleted text.

Then something weird happened, she went from suddenly extremely pissed off. And gave me a big hug and said this all means I still love her.

We sat and talked about stuff after that. Not sure what to think now. She did ask what it will take for me to be less paranoid.

What do I do.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP for what I read here it is very difficult, but you need to control your emotions, because if something is happening, everything will go underground and if nothing is happening, you will be label as paranoid; and that is neither good for your marriage. 
Of course, it is very important to recover that text and read what was sent in it, or for the moment verify what number was sent to (you can get that through the phone company and you can verify if there are more text to X number or Y number. For the task of verifying the context of the text and other texts I recommend you don't do it know. Because she is already on alert and she knows that you are lurking in her phone. So wait a little and try to get Fonelab or Dr Phone to recover that text or possible other texts.
Also, get a VAR tomorrow and put the poker face and the stealth hat. It Could be nothing. But deleting a text is a big red flag.


----------



## cocolo2019

Here is the newbie thread 








Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this


Welcome newbies. I am so sorry that you are here with us now. If you're here, then it's a good chance that your marriage is in big trouble. If you are a betrayed spouse or think you might be a betrayed spouse let me first say that I know how much it sucks to be where you are right now...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


----------



## Hacker1234

Weird it was one text.


----------



## Robert22205

Ask her to read a book with you.

YES - your concern is grounded in love for her. It's a good positive sign she sees this as a compliment as opposed to calling you controlling/jealous of crazy. 

Unfortunately, this last incident may motivate her to be more secretive in the future.

IMO, don't push her about the deleted text. Why? because you're suspicious but her answer is not verifiable and therefore will not make you feel safe. 

Therefore, pressing for an explanation will encourage her to be more secretive (if only to avoid what she sees as your 'paranoia').

Under the circumstances, her interest in him or her curiousity (about the boss) is likely one-sided (on her part). 

In addition to 'trust' but verify, I suggest you both read "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass. 

The book is a good starting point for a friendly discussion (over a bottle of wine) about relationships among your friends - and particularly, your own. If you guys just read the first 50-60 pages you will have a much easier time discussing what's appropriate behavior. 

Both of you will be less defensive and open to discussing how this book applies to your marriage. From your point of view, your wife won't see you as paranoid - but instead as a concerned loving husband trying to protect his family from 'risk' that every relationship is vulnerable to. 

The book is based on research of couples (all 'good' people) that experienced infidelity, and more important the common behaviors that exposed their marriage to the risk of adultery.


----------



## Livvie

What was the deleted text??? She never answered???

I think she's vety smart and successfully evaded the deleted text issue with the-- this means you still love me thing. Making herself out to be a doubting one. Kinds of like when cheaters accuse their spouse of cheating.


----------



## nekonamida

I agree with Livvie. That was a great dodge. And it means whatever that text was is something she doesn't want you to see. Do you know who the text was to?

I think you should change tactics. She will now be on high alert over her phone. For the record, I don't think it's clear that she's cheating but I do think she's hiding something from you. If I were you, I would look into getting a VAR. Put it in her car or any other place that you think she might be taking phone calls.


----------



## farsidejunky

You need to be like a starving dog with the last bone on earth over this one text.

Nothing...NOTHING should be okay in your relationship until you have it clarified. 

I smell manipulation. Don't allow it to work. 

And lastly, hiding/deleting texts IS wayward behavior. It is a LIE. Ask yourself why she is lying...and the only answer is because she doesn't want you to see. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Nucking Futs

I agree, recover that text. You asked, she evaded. Don't let it go. If you haven't already var'd the car do it asap.

The first time I replied to you I thought there might be something or maybe not, but it was worth looking at. Now I wish I had advised you to push the balls to the wall on investigating, the flags are bright red.


----------



## Music_Man

Watch how she treats her phone over the next few days. Could be telling.

Above all else, you need to know the content- and context- of that message. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## cocolo2019

OP if you are going to retrieve the text don't give her any hint about it. Act normal and wait for her to low her antennas. But be ready and have beforehand a copy of a text recovery program installed (hidden in your computer), then when you have the chance grab her phone and begin the extraction. Also, very important, before trying to recover the texts verify if she put a password on her phone.
For the moment: VAR, Poker face and Stealth Mode. And figure out who she sent the text to.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> At the moment 1 thru 5 are not happening at all. Number 6 I noticed a slight uptick last week, but nothing really uncommon for us. We are now back to our normal schedule, like every other day or skip 2 days.
> 
> So what do I do now? I went silent on it. But last week I told her I didn't want to hear about him anymore. Just watch? If she gets weird take a stand?
> 
> Thanks


Good for you on taking the stand. It may feel weird but you have opened a door on not being reluctant to take a stand in the future.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> I just messed up real bad. Not sure what to think. I had her phone and I was looking at their texts, all of them normal work stuff from the morning. But according to the log she sent one text later in the afternoon and it was deleted.
> 
> I was shaken up by this. I handed her phone back and laid it all out. Asked her if she likes the guy and whats going on. She got pissed off that I was looking thru her stuff. She never did answer the question about the deleted text.
> 
> Then something weird happened, she went from suddenly extremely pissed off. And gave me a big hug and said this all means I still love her.
> 
> We sat and talked about stuff after that. Not sure what to think now. She did ask what it will take for me to be less paranoid.
> 
> What do I do.


Her phone....in a marriage it ain't private. There is nothing private in marriage. Unless it is a bathroom break. All electronics should be available to each at any time. 

What to do now, stand your ground. Constant talk of OM makes you uncomfortable and something that your W should not be focusing on. When with you it should be all about you.


----------



## Hacker1234

I got to the bottom of everything, case is settled. In the end I was overreacting as I had thought I might have been.
Good news, even though I looked paranoid. She thinks this event actually had some positive impact.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> I got to the bottom of everything, case is settled. In the end I was overreacting as I had thought I might have been.
> Good news, even though I looked paranoid. She thinks this event actually had some positive impact.


Yeah, like you still love and care for her. That is a positive impact because more often then not it is heard, "I was not getting any attention. I thought you did not care. So I decided to find a BF." 

Go start dating your W again and never stop.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> I got to the bottom of everything, case is settled. In the end I was overreacting as I had thought I might have been.
> Good news, even though I looked paranoid. She thinks this event actually had some positive impact.


So that means you know what was sent in that text, right? If you are 100% sure nothing is going, good. Now, here recommend several books like No More Mr Nice Guy from Dr. Glover and Married Man Sex Life Primer.


----------



## Openminded

Didn’t answer your question? Deflected? She obviously didn’t want you to know so start working on it.


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## Beach123

Hacker1234 said:


> I got to the bottom of everything, case is settled. In the end I was overreacting as I had thought I might have been.
> Good news, even though I looked paranoid. She thinks this event actually had some positive impact.



not so fast..
Things are still very off. Read the deleted text by recovering any other deleted texts. She obviously deleting texts she doesn’t want you seeing.

When there’s nothing to hide - people hide nothing!

don’t let her off the hook that easily. She’s up to something and you have no idea what that really is...yet.


----------



## Music_Man

OP- this was almost resolved too easily. Don't become a member of the 'not my wife. No way she would do that' club. Many of us in this very thread would've given anything to have caught our situation as early as you have.

I sincerely hope you've recovered that text and any others, and your wife is sincere in her actions. It's highly possible that she's taken it underground or will just 'cool it' for awhile. If she has any feelings at all for this guy, and they see each other every day, AND you don't address this in the right way, you could be setting yourself up for serious heartache later. 

Take care, guard your marriage, and please keep us posted.


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## Hacker1234

Yes I know what was in the text, it turned out to be nothing.

The good news, is that the OM is only in the office once or twice a week. And spends up to 4 hours in the office a week.

Their texts are only during work hours and all work related. She doesn't guard her phone, no password on it.
All waking hours outside of work we are together. No weird activity at all.

If something was going on, hopefully this put a stop to it.


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## cocolo2019

Sorry OP my apologies to throw you away from your cloud, and I don't want to put you on a paranoid mode, but a BLANK TEXT is an ultra big red flag. I have read a lot, and when I say a lot it means a lot. From this 9 months that I have been lurking here I have read thread from 2020 through 2012, and I have been lurking in Surviving infidelity forum and reddit. And one of the tactics that cheaters use is sending a blank text. That means "there are no moors on the coast" or "everything is clear". Also, I have read sites from the point of view of cheaters and one of the tactics for seduce a married woman or a married man is sending a blank text. According to those sites it means to indicate that you are interested in something, like the Facebook pokes. As a matter of fact, go to Google and write " how to seduce a married woman through text" and the very first step is 1) Start seducing by sending a blank text message. Look for it and verify yourself.
OP I am not saying that your wife is a cheater but as Music-Man said, don't make the mistake to enter to the Not my Wife Club.
Sorry man, for saying this but you need to get a VAR pronto.
And I would like to know the feedbacks of other forum participants here that have more experience in this matter.


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## Hacker1234

It was not blank.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP here are two thread from reddit where wayward wives used the blank text tactics.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/f7qu8t


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## cocolo2019

I had to post them separately 
Here is the second one.


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/g84892


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> It was not blank.


In that case, nevermind.


----------



## Robert22205

I'm glad you found nothing to be further alarmed about. Don't be ashamed or apologetic for protecting your marriage. I still suggest you both read: Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass.


----------



## Hacker1234

Thanks for the comments. I think Gabriel was pretty spot on. Worst case this was the start of something and I took action. 

It has been a couple a days, and all texting has stopped. Her phone still has no password and she is not guarding it at all. Like I said before we pretty much spend all waking hours together outside of work, nothing weird to report.

I have upped my game a bit and am sowing our marriage. She has noticed and the response has been positive.

I do understand where there is smoke there is fire. So ill I can do now is keep up the sowing, and pay attention.


----------



## Beach123

What does sowing mean when referring to a marriage?

if it means repairing - why isn’t your wife doing the work necessary to make the marriage better?


----------



## Tobyboy

Why would the texting stop when it was work related only?

Were her intentions with all the texting and bringing him up in conversation just to gain your attention?

Or has she found other means to communicate with the possible OM?


----------



## syhoybenden

cocolo2019 said:


> In that case, nevermind.


Miss Emily Litella, ladies and gentlemen.


----------



## cocolo2019

syhoybenden said:


> Miss Emily Litella, ladies and gentlemen.
> View attachment 69680


Lol. I just said nevermind because he quickly replayed my concern. But that doesn't me he shouldn't (dormirse en las pajas). The only translation in English for that colloquial Spanish expression is he shouldn't low his guard or become complacent.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP, do not low your guard. Stay alert. If everything was innocent and related to work why stop suddenly? Of course, the common sense tells us everything stopped to avoid misunderstandings. But if something was about to start or going on it would or will go underground. Ego kibbles and dopamine rush do not decrease in an instant.
The better way to know if something has started on continue on is the VAR (voice activate recorder) in her car, below the driver's seat and attached to a velcro.


----------



## ABHale

Hacker1234 said:


> Yes I know what was in the text, it turned out to be nothing.
> 
> The good news, is that the OM is only in the office once or twice a week. And spends up to 4 hours in the office a week.
> 
> Their texts are only during work hours and all work related. She doesn't guard her phone, no password on it.
> All waking hours outside of work we are together. No weird activity at all.
> 
> If something was going on, hopefully this put a stop to it.


Ugh. This sounds like a she chose me over him. Should never have been a choice that had to be made.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> Thanks for the comments. I think Gabriel was pretty spot on. Worst case this was the start of something and I took action.
> 
> It has been a couple a days, and all texting has stopped. Her phone still has no password and she is not guarding it at all. Like I said before we pretty much spend all waking hours together outside of work, nothing weird to report.
> 
> I have upped my game a bit and am sowing our marriage. She has noticed and the response has been positive.
> 
> I do understand where there is smoke there is fire. So ill I can do now is keep up the sowing, and pay attention.



Good for you sowing into your marriage! You see a positive response. Marriage takes work(as I found out after 20 years on cruise control). Fortunate for me my W stayed the course until I figure it out. I was such an idiot. I changed my ways in our marriage completely.  Totally different world for us. Keep it going!


----------



## Hacker1234

So this is interesting. I noticed they were texting today. Again all innocent work stuff. Now remember she thinks im paranoid, and she just leave her phone sitting out.

But it goes like this. She send 2 texts, he replies. Then hour later she sends 2 texts and he replies. But according to her phone she only sent 1 text each time. By the way, the conversation make sense.

Maybe failed to send the message the first time? Or she is trying to catch me snooping? Very interesting.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Run a deleted text recovery program on her phone and see what it comes up with.


----------



## MattMatt

Or check for WhatsApp, Slack, Google Groups, Words With Friends, Facebook Messenger, etc?


----------



## Nucking Futs

You never know, the missing messages may be telling him to switch to her other number.


----------



## Music_Man

Nucking Futs said:


> Run a deleted text recovery program on her phone and see what it comes up with.


Yep. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to not do this. I sincerely hope this hasn't gone underground, but recovering any deleted texts can help shed light on any shenanigans if they exist. 

OP- We're not trying to be a wet blanket or Debbie Downer here. We've just been there, and we want to make you fully aware of the various scenarios. We're actually rooting for you and your wife here.


----------



## ABHale

You do know with them working together, they really don’t have to text about the affair. You caught your wife the last time through texts. She should know not to use text to carry this one on. Everything that could happen in a affair can be handled at work alone.


----------



## Hacker1234

Which is why I think this is a trap.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> So this is interesting. I noticed they were texting today. Again all innocent work stuff. Now remember she thinks im paranoid, and she just leave her phone sitting out.
> 
> But it goes like this. She send 2 texts, he replies. Then hour later she sends 2 texts and he replies. But according to her phone she only sent 1 text each time. By the way, the conversation make sense.
> 
> Maybe failed to send the message the first time? Or she is trying to catch me snooping? Very interesting.


OP it is good you put your PI hat on. Now the most important thing: Keep the poker face while you dig and never show your card. 
Very weird the two text and showing only one. I hope it's not the "the cost is clear" text that we talked about before and you see nothing. 
I don't know my two cents.


----------



## Beach123

You are being played/duped, my friend.


----------



## Hacker1234

I get that, but why does she want to be caught........ Something is up.


----------



## Hacker1234

I feel like the biggest asshole on the planet. Either I am dealing with some crazy meta game, or I am barking up the wrong tree. So I was getting ready to get those texts, and im looking at her instagram and like an hour ago she sent a message about getting our wedding rings redone. I just could not go through with it.

I am really thinking, if she deleted those. She wanted to get caught for some reason. Either that this is some huge setup.

If she is gaming me, damn this is good.


----------



## Robert22205

You shouldn't feel guilty when your intentions are honorable (protecting your wife & family as well as yourself).

One reason a good person can have a PA is that they believe they are in control (and are blind to the emotional bond ramping up). 

Someone in an EA (i.e., where they feel they have control over the EA so it's harmless - and are in absolute denial that it's a threat to their marriage) could easily love bomb you and talk about redoing the rings. 

They convince themselves that it's innocent and so they (have to) see you as paranoid. They also will delete texts and hide stuff that they believe will upset you (honestly believing it's for your own good).

Her change in behavior (her interest in her boss), is grounds to be on the 'alert'. In that context, the missing texts are suspicious/should be investigated. 

I recall a post where you mentioned he's rarely at the office and when he's at the office it's for just a short time.
How do you know? Who told you that?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Get the texts anyway.


----------



## dreamer2017

I don't think you are overreacting, it is my opinion, your wife is very smart and she is two steps ahead of you at all times. You should be vigilant. 

Best,
Dreamer


----------



## Hacker1234

About him going into the office, she did tell me that some time ago. It's one of the reasons they sometimes text during the day about work stuff, because he is almost never there.


----------



## Music_Man

Hacker1234 said:


> About him going into the office, she did tell me that some time ago. It's one of the reasons they sometimes text during the day about work stuff, because he is almost never there.


This is how my W's EA began. It was a doctor who was only there certain days. It was work related to begin with, and like you, I convinced myself that's all it was. 

Then it progressed to friendly banter. Then to him complementing her- first on her work then on to her looks. Then lite flirting. Then heavy flirting. Then sexually charged texts. Then him foregoing all of the former and trying to get my W into bed. Miracle that it stopped when it did. 

I'm just saying, be vigilant and don't take anything at face value. I'd Fonelab that phone to death, have a VAR in her car, and I'd lay low while doing all of it. If it comes up empty, good for you! If it doesn't, then at least you've hopefully caught things before they've escalated. 

Either way, doing this PI work is a win-win for you. Nothing to lose by turning over every stone possible.


----------



## Hacker1234

How did you catch the texts, at what times during the day were they texting.


----------



## Music_Man

Hacker1234 said:


> How did you catch the texts, at what times during the day were they texting.


Long story, too long to post in detail here, but I'll give you the highlights. Read my thread that was posted just about a year ago for full details.

Due to various factors, I began battling depression around the same time things were ramping up between them. I always suspected something though- the way she would talk about him was a tip off (I think you've experienced the same thing). But I ended up burying my head in the sand. 

It was years later. Once I was over the depression and past that period of life, I needed to know. I needed concrete proof that nothing went on. She had long since left that job and things were going along very well with us. Not a hint of anything improper with anyone else, no male texting buddies or anything like that. 

She mentioned that time period one day in such a way that was almost a 'confession' of sorts. Fortunately- and this was HUGE- she still had her old iPhone from that era and I had my old Macbook that had all of the updates and so forth connected to her phone. She confessed. In detail. But that wasn't enough for me- I needed the evidence. 

Through Dr Fone, Fonelab, and a little persistence, I recovered their texts. I even went to our cell provider and purchased old bills so that I could compare incoming texts to the amount recovered to make sure I didn't miss anything. 

Again, it's basically a miracle and very rare for something like this to have not gone physical (and believe me, this jerk tried and tried and tried). Seeing him get frustrated and turn on my W, and then my W leaving her job and getting away from him, are two big reasons that I'm in this forum today and not hanging out in the divorce forums.

Our marriage is strong and R is going well, but this whole thing could've been caught early on. You have that chance. At the very least, you can give yourself peace of mind.

Oh- time of day? They mostly texted during work hours on days he wasn't there. Rarely after she got home from work.


----------



## Hacker1234

Thanks dude, I did read your story. Very good read. It appears I could be at the very start of your story. I really need to figure out how to stop all of this.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> Thanks dude, I did read your story. Very good read. It appears I could be at the very start of your story. I really need to figure out how to stop all of this.


The problem here is that you still have nothing concrete, just a hunch. If you attack now you will be gas lighted and will be called paranoid. 
I would go for the VAR route OP. To see how is her demeanor when she talks to him, if she call at all, of course. Remember there are applications that allow you to talk without being reflected on your bill: Facebook (and even you don't have to be friend of the contact), WhatsApp, Telegram, Viber, etc.
But you have to be careful while you get information, because you don't want that a possible relationship escalate to the point of a physical affair; but at the same time you need a silver bullet where you can pull a trigger and demand her to stop the relationship with OM or demand her to quit her job, etc.
It is a very complicated situation. But here you will find a good guidance. 
Also, if you hear something compromising never reveal you are using a VAR. Use another excuse, like you contracted a PI and he(she) revealed me some information. But this is in case of something huge.


----------



## Hacker1234

I dont think a var is a good idea. Anyways, she works very close to home and takes a minute to get home. When we are home we are always together. She does not talk much on the phone, sometimes facetimes with family.


----------



## cocolo2019

In that case you can use a pen or usb VAR. Other OPs here and in other forums have used before. It's a VAR with the shape of a pen (it looks like a pen and you even can use it for writing), also it comes with an USB shape. It records over 16 hours. You can get one and hide in her purse when her boss visits the office. Believe me, if something is going on you will hear it. I know this could be something that is against your principles, but I think is worse to have an uncertainty that something is happening behind your back. Trust your guts.


----------



## Music_Man

Hacker1234 said:


> Thanks dude, I did read your story. Very good read. It appears I could be at the very start of your story. I really need to figure out how to stop all of this.


I think just being here and asking questions and working to educate yourself is a big positive for you. I wish I had discovered TAM years ago. There's a wealth of knowledge here, and sadly, a lot of experience in dealing with what you are dealing with. 

I said it last year and I've said it several times since- trust your gut. I knew it in my gut all along. Your gut isn't letting this go, and you are correct to follow your instincts and act on that feeling. 

Your wife is acting differently. Perhaps it's professional admiration along with some physical attraction. Perhaps it's more. Then again, could be nothing at all. 

I just know that I would do everything in my power to make sure I knew the absolute truth.


----------



## lucy999

I second the vote for a PI.


----------



## Nucking Futs

I don't know about a pi, if they're ducking into a closet or the boss' office at work it would be a waste of money. Hacker, since she works so close to home does she come home for lunch every day?


----------



## Hacker1234

She does not work full time, typically she is home by lunch time. I work from home.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> She does not work full time, typically she is home by lunch time. I work from home.


I don't think I'd bother with a PI unless you have some reason to think she's leaving the office while you expect her to be there. Can you track her phone's location? Do you ever go to her office?


----------



## Hacker1234

Actually yes, sometime last year my Wife installed an app on ours and the kids phones that tracks our locations. So we know where everyone is at all times. I know when she leaves work, gets home etc. It pin points her phones exact location. Plus a record of all travel. Iv looked, she is where she says she is.


----------



## Tobyboy

Hacker1234 said:


> Plus a record of all travel. Iv looked, she is where she says she is.


Well.....her phone is where it says it is!


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Actually yes, sometime last year my Wife installed an app on ours and the kids phones that tracks our locations. So we know where everyone is at all times. I know when she leaves work, gets home etc. It pin points her phones exact location. Plus a record of all travel. Iv looked, she is where she says she is.


To be clear, you know where her phone is, you can't be sure she's with her phone. I already think she's got a burner phone, it's simple enough to forward all calls to the burner number then leave your phone behind while you go party in a hotel room. Just like TAM can help you with investigative techniques there are online resources that can get someone up to speed on effectively hiding an affair that would make it very difficult to catch, the trick with forwarding all calls to a burner phone being one such. We don't really see a lot of that but I suspect that's because advanced cheaters are almost impossible to catch unless they screw up at just the right time. If she's conducting a workplace affair and all the action is confined to the office it's going to be very difficult to catch, and a PI probably would be a waste of money. If she's leaving to party in a hotel room a PI would pick it up very quickly. The problem here is while a PI can prove an affair is happening it won't prove an affair is not, and you can spend a bunch of money for no result. 

Unfortunately I've now had conversations with 3 different people since that last sentence and my train of thought has completely derailed.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP we are NOT saying she is cheating, and we are not 100% sure. You only have a mild suspicion and the TAM crew gives you advices based on your suspicion and the experience here of the forum members.
Now, when she installed the app in your phones, was the installation by the time OM began to work there?
I am asking this because she also does know your location. If something is going on (and to be clear I am not saying something is happening) and you decide to stop by the office, for whatever reason, she can track you. So, please have that in mind if you are considering to apply PI techniques.


----------



## Hacker1234

App was installed long before OM.


----------



## Hacker1234

So this is a little strange, on a hunch I compared my texts to the logs. Looks like I am deleting texts too. I am not sure how reliable these texts are.


----------



## Tobyboy

Remember, if they have iPhones or iPads using iMessages, texts won’t appear on your bill/data logs.


----------



## Beach123

Hacker1234 said:


> Actually yes, sometime last year my Wife installed an app on ours and the kids phones that tracks our locations. So we know where everyone is at all times. I know when she leaves work, gets home etc. It pin points her phones exact location. Plus a record of all travel. Iv looked, she is where she says she is.


We can’t help you when you keep wanting to believe she is innocent so badly that you’re unwilling to look further than your nose...and think any amount other than what you wish to believe.

ok, sure - she’s not doing anything - there.

but if you believe she’s where she SHOULD be because that’s the location on her phone - fail!

SHE could be anywhere!!! Tons of threads here show a wife was at work... when in actuality SHE was at OM house but her phone was left at work!

you have your head in the sand.


----------



## cocolo2019

I still give his wife the benefit of the doubt based on OP's answers and I don't dare to say she probably is cheating; I would say better she possibly is cheating (everything is possible). But, like Beach said, it doesn't mean you have to bury your head. You have to be on alert and in stealth mode, recopilating information and reading about other BS experiences.

Now let's give you PI tips here that could help you on gathering more info. You said her boss is certain days at the premises, right? Have you ever notice any changes, like when suddenly she arrives, she goes directly to get a shower or hide her underwears? Or she doesn't look directly to your eyes on those days? Or suddenly a peak (significant decrease) in sexual drive?


----------



## Hacker1234

Nothing that I can tell, she does typically jump into the shower after work and gets into more comfy clothes. But that is everyday. She even does that if we had an afternoon out and about on the weekends.


----------



## Nucking Futs

cocolo2019 said:


> I still give his wife the benefit of the doubt based on OP's answers and* I don't dare to say she probably is cheating; I would say better she possibly is cheating (everything is possible). But, like Beach said, it doesn't mean you have to bury your head. You have to be on alert and in stealth mode, recopilating information and reading about other BS experiences.*


I'm right there with you. I'm not saying she's cheating, but there's enough flags to warrant a sub rosa investigation.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Hacker1234 said:


> Weird it was one text.


Little things lead to bigger things. Do not forget it. Eyes open mouth shut for now. I think that if there was anything going on, it is now underground. Never confront until you have solid evidence. Trust your gut.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yup I am keeping my mouth shut at the moment. I did find a possible new reg flag, but I need more data. Couple weeks ago she was complaining about getting headaches at work. She thought it might have to do with having to wear a mask at the office and wearing glasses. So she started wearing contacts to see if it would go away. It worked. She needs to order more, so she has not been wearing them everyday. Would be interesting if she wears them only on the days he is there.


----------



## Robert22205

I suggest you talk to someone at the cell phone store and ask why there's a difference between the total texts identified in the log vs the total texts you see in the app you guys use.

It could be deleted texts but there may be other explanations. 

For example, It could be that the log classifies certain communications outside the app (you're looking at) as a text.


----------



## Robert22205

It's good to be aware of changes in grooming. Just know, wearing a mask with glasses is truly uncomfortable plus it fogs up your glasses.


----------



## TDSC60

The whole world knows that a phone can be tracked. It only makes sense that if she wants to hide her location all she has to do is leave the phone at her work for an hour or so. A meeting or conference is a good excuse for not answering calls or texts. " I could not answer your earlier text because I was in a meeting". At my work, one of the things that is said first is "turn off or mute your phones".


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> Yup I am keeping my mouth shut at the moment. I did find a possible new reg flag, but I need more data. Couple weeks ago she was complaining about getting headaches at work. She thought it might have to do with having to wear a mask at the office and wearing glasses. So she started wearing contacts to see if it would go away. It worked. She needs to order more, so she has not been wearing them everyday. Would be interesting if she wears them only on the days he is there.


Interesting, for Covid-19 prevention the employees where she works began to use a face mask, right? Then she complained using the mask while wearing glasses (by the way, what Robert said about mask and glasses is true) and began to use eye contacts; and this is something that everybody can rationalize they would add attractiveness to a person. 
Now you are wondering if she is using the contacts only when OM visit the office. 
That is very clever of you. Those minor details could tell you something.


----------



## Thor

Beware paranoia. This is a tough one, but I guess the main suggestion is to go slowly and don't jump to conclusions. Tech does weird things sometimes. People say things without thinking, and which can have unintended other meanings.

Your gut feeling is well worth paying attention to. Be sure to differentiate between what you know as true facts vs what seems to be something. A good example is the text count. There are possible other explanations. Her contact lenses ditto.

The best advice you've gotten so far is to stfu and don't confront until you have absolute proof. Don't give any indication you are suspicious. Getting the truth is hard, but if you give her warning you are suspecting something then it becomes nearly impossible.


----------



## Hacker1234

cocolo2019 said:


> Interesting, for Covid-19 prevention the employees where she works began to use a face mask, right? Then she complained using the mask while wearing glasses (by the way, what Robert said about mask and glasses is true) and began to use eye contacts; and this is something that everybody can rationalize they would add attractiveness to a person.
> Now you are wondering if she is using the contacts only when OM visit the office.
> That is very clever of you. Those minor details could tell you something.


Yeah I only have 5 days of data that I have paid attention to. Currently of the 5 days, 2 of the days I knew he was in the office, she wore them once. The other day she did not, the other 3 days she wore glasses.


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

You may want to snoop her phone for unusual or unexpected applications she may used to communicate. Look at your phone bill closely. Review her emails. You may want to consider placing a VAR in her car to see if you hear anything unusual, also. Hope it all is a false alarm on your part.


----------



## cocolo2019

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> You may want to snoop her phone for unusual or unexpected applications she may used to communicate. Look at your phone bill closely. Review her emails. You may want to consider placing a VAR in her car to see if you hear anything unusual, also. Hope it all is a false alarm on your part.


She works very closely. If he goes to VAR route he needs to get a pen shape (it actually works as a pen) var and hide it in her pulse.


----------



## Hacker1234

A little update.

They have not texted in a couple days, no weird apps on her phone and she still leaves it out with no password. No burner phone that I know of. I know the OM was in the office yesterday and she did not wear contacts. So on that front it is looking good. Sex life is normal. Everything appears to be normal.

However, I did notice she cleared out her FB search history last night. 3 possible reasons came to mind, she cleared it out because she didn't want me to see her past search history, she searched for something last night she didn't want me to see and cleared it all. Or she did it on purpose to see if I would notice and say something about it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> However, I did notice she cleared out her FB search history last night. 3 possible reasons came to mind, she cleared it out because she didn't want me to see her past search history, she searched for something last night she didn't want me to see and cleared it all. *Or she did it on purpose to see if I would notice and say something about it.*


Eyes open mouth shut.


----------



## Music_Man

Hacker1234 said:


> A little update.
> 
> They have not texted in a couple days, no weird apps on her phone and she still leaves it out with no password. No burner phone that I know of. I know the OM was in the office yesterday and she did not wear contacts. So on that front it is looking good. Sex life is normal. Everything appears to be normal.
> 
> However, I did notice she cleared out her FB search history last night. 3 possible reasons came to mind, she cleared it out because she didn't want me to see her past search history, she searched for something last night she didn't want me to see and cleared it all. Or she did it on purpose to see if I would notice and say something about it.


Deleting search history on social media is something to keep an eye on, for certain. As has been said, keep quiet but stay vigilant. If something is going on or is starting up, unless your wife is a pro or is being coached, she's going to make a mistake.


----------



## dreamer2017

It is my opinion, your wife is a very cool operator. She knows you are on to her and I also believe she is very smart with the possibility of being coached. Stay vigilant.


----------



## oldtruck

if she does FB on a PC then install a key logger without her knowing.
she can erase but you will still be able to see what erased and did with
the PC.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> A little update.
> 
> They have not texted in a couple days, no weird apps on her phone and she still leaves it out with no password. No burner phone that I know of. I know the OM was in the office yesterday and she did not wear contacts. So on that front it is looking good. Sex life is normal. Everything appears to be normal.
> 
> However, I did notice she cleared out her FB search history last night. 3 possible reasons came to mind, she cleared it out because she didn't want me to see her past search history, she searched for something last night she didn't want me to see and cleared it all. Or she did it on purpose to see if I would notice and say something about it.


Did you discuss with her that she was searching for OM's profile? If you did, now you know why you shouldn't give any source. If you didn't, she already knows you are into her, so is possible she will erase any track. If you want to know what she is searching for or chatting with, like oldtruck said, you have to consider a keylogger, and test it first, so it cannot be pointed out by an antivirus. 
Also, If she is testing you, do not mention anything to her.


----------



## Hacker1234

I did not mention a thing. I too think it is a test.


----------



## Hacker1234

So either 1, she is up to no good. Or 2 she still thinks I am paranoid and trying to catch me.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> I did not mention a thing. I too think it is a test.


I mean before, when you were shaken up, sat down with her and asked her if she likes him. Did you mention at that time you found out she was searching for him on Facebook?


----------



## Hacker1234

No I did not say that.


----------



## Music_Man

Hacker1234 said:


> No I did not say that.


This is good. Stay the course. I know it's driving you crazy and you want to know the truth and the absolute truth right now. Stay the course.


----------



## Beach123

If you are more worried about her catching you... you are going about this backwards!


----------



## lucy999

Hacker1234 said:


> So either 1, she is up to no good. Or 2 she still thinks I am paranoid and trying to catch me.


If it's the latter, she's got a lousy way of assuaging your fears. 

I realize everyone is different, but if I were your wife and not stepping out, the last thing I'd do is spend my time trying to trap you to prove you're spying on me and being paranoid. That's not conducive to a loving relationship. 

I'd be having serious conversations with you about how I could assuage your fears and act as such. I'd be sad and worried and want to know how I could prove to you I love you and am not cheating on you. I would understand that at one time or another, we all might get insecure in our relationship.


----------



## turnera

It's also possible he's flirting with her, she had no intention of cheating, but the flirting is working. Maybe consider printing out an article about how emotional affairs start; most people have no clue about emotional affairs and it may shock her to realize she's being played.


----------



## Hacker1234

lucy999 said:


> If it's the latter, she's got a lousy way of assuaging your fears.
> 
> I realize everyone is different, but if I were your wife and not stepping out, the last thing I'd do is spend my time trying to trap you to prove you're spying on me and being paranoid. That's not conducive to a loving relationship.
> 
> I'd be having serious conversations with you about how I could assuage your fears and act as such. I'd be sad and worried and want to know how I could prove to you I love you and am not cheating on you. I would understand that at one time or another, we all might get insecure in our relationship.


I think your post is the key to what is happening. The night I freaked out she did try to assuage my fears, asking what she could do to end this. Your post brought all that back.

So what happened, she noticed that I was paying a lot more attention to her phone after the first conversation we had when I was doing yard work. She purposely sent him a text and deleted it to get a reaction out of me. I noticed it and we had our moment. This appears to be the same kind of thing.


----------



## lucy999

Hacker1234 said:


> I think your post is the key to what is happening. The night I freaked out she did try to assuage my fears, asking what she could do to end this. Your post brought all that back.
> 
> So what happened, she noticed that I was paying a lot more attention to her phone after the first conversation we had when I was doing yard work. She purposely sent him a text and deleted it to get a reaction out of me. I noticed it and we had our moment. This appears to be the same kind of thing.


 I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she might be "testing" you. That is so premeditated and such unloving behavior. It's saying, "I'll show you to doubt me." I realize you're in an eyes open mouth shut position now, but If she's not cheating, that behavior should be addressed.


----------



## Robert22205

Are you sure she deleted texts?

Your reaction to the deleted texts is reasonable. Her deleting texts is not.

Regardless of how your wife reacted to your questioning her about her interest in the boss (angry or flattered or whatever), deleting texts just baits you to continue to be suspicious (or in her words: paranoid).

Maybe your wife is trying to make you jealous because she likes the attention from you.


----------



## Beach123

Install a camera in your home and see what she’s actually doing when she thinks you’re not paying attention. They cost about $100 and are well worth it. You can watch it on your cell phone in real time. she also won’t know you have evidence in case she denies it.
Figure out where to put it so she won’t notice it. It’s not hard - they have variety that’s pretty darn small.


----------



## MattMatt

Robert22205 said:


> It's good to be aware of changes in grooming. Just know, wearing a mask with glasses is truly uncomfortable plus it fogs up your glasses.


And can cause reduced oxygen levels and subsequent headaches.


----------



## Hacker1234

I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject. Very interesting. I had no idea. So it appears an EA can start and they don't even know it till they are really into it. I get the whole mouth shut eyes open thing now.

Good news it appears I can combat this a bit. Looks like EAs can start when something is missing in the relationship, they don't go looking for it. It just kind of happens. So if there is something, I need to find it and provide it.

So far everything appears to be normal. No texts in a week. At least none that I am aware of. Relationship is fine, no issues I can see. Nothing fishy has been happening.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> Good news it appears I can combat this a bit. Looks like EAs can start when something is missing in the relationship, they don't go looking for it. It just kind of happens. So if there is something, I need to find it and provide it.


This is why I have stated twice in your thread, "Start dating and keep on dating your W." It should never stop.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject. Very interesting. I had no idea. So it appears an EA can start and they don't even know it till they are really into it. I get the whole mouth shut eyes open thing now.
> 
> Good news it appears I can combat this a bit. Looks like EAs can start when something is missing in the relationship, they don't go looking for it. It just kind of happens. So if there is something, I need to find it and provide it.
> 
> So far everything appears to be normal. *No texts in a week. At least none that I am aware of.* Relationship is fine, no issues I can see. Nothing fishy has been happening.


Or she's learned to keep all her illicit texting to her burner phone. Not finding the evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it may mean she's just better at hiding it than you are at finding it. I don't know if she has a burner phone or not, or if anything is going on or not. If there is something going on, and if they are using burner phones, and if she's keeping it on her all the time, and if they only get physical in the office, you'll have close to no chance of catching it unless they make a mistake. Thus the eyes open mouth shut thing. Don't do anything to keep her guard up so if she is cheating she might relax and make a mistake.

Although I've heard of some people finding burner phones with emf meter apps.


----------



## Hacker1234

Thanks for that.
So what I've been reading, they typically don't go out looking for them and don't really want one. And I can make the OM take a backseat by doing what you said, since it appears if anything is going on. It's very early.


----------



## Hacker1234

I think a burner phone is unlikely at this point. I could be wrong though. But like I said we spend all waking hours together, not sure when she would be using it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Thanks for that.
> So what I've been reading, they typically don't go out looking for them and don't really want one. And I can make the OM take a backseat by doing what you said, since it appears if anything is going on. It's very early.


Yeah, but you should have been doing what he said all along. <---- it's monday, I'm quarterbacking.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> I think a burner phone is unlikely at this point. I could be wrong though. But like I said we spend all waking hours together, not sure when she would be using it.


When she's in the bathroom, when you're in the bathroom, when you take the garbage out, etc. Any time you aren't physically looking at her is an opportunity. Again, I'm not saying she's doing it, I'm just pointing out the possibility.


----------



## Hacker1234

Interesting thing happened this morning. So we are in the process of buying a new home, and we need some docs for the loan officer. Her boss can get them, but instead of using his name she was saying him and he. When normally she would just say his name.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Interesting thing happened this morning. So we are in the process of buying a new home, and we need some docs for the loan officer. Her boss can get them, but instead of using his name she was saying him and he. When normally she would just say his name.


Probably nothing. She knows you have a problem with him so she's trying not to exacerbate it. It's the kind of thing a wife would do if her husband just thought her boss was a run of the mill jerk.


----------



## bandit.45

> Looks like EAs can start when something is missing in the relationship,


Yeah. Something is missing. It is called boundaries. Your wife is letting her boundaries lapse.


----------



## Yeswecan

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah. Something is missing. It is called boundaries. Your wife is letting her boundaries lapse.


Or maybe the marriage is not being nurtured as it should be.


----------



## TDSC60

Your wife has not seen him puking his guts up and looking like death warmed over when sick. She has not seen him forget to take out the trash or forget to bring home a specific item she asked for. She has not seen him leave the toilet seat up. She has not had disagreements nor arguments with this guy. In short, she has not lived with him. 

She has only seen the good in this other guy. He is the guy at work who is always dressed nice and has told her first what a good job she is doing and then told her how grateful he is to have her working there. He is the one that compliments her on her looks occasionally. Because he is upper management, his compliments mean more.

Lots of women fall into an EA because they are suddenly treated as if they are attractive and wanted by someone they admire. Like they are suddenly young again and are being chased. They soak up the attention. It feels great to them and they want to keep it coming so they communicate with the OM often. If not stopped, it sometimes goes to the point where they will do anything to keep the attention and compliments coming.

I don't think a husband can compete if his wife is open to the attention of others.


----------



## Music_Man

TDSC60 said:


> Your wife has not seen him puking his guts up and looking like death warmed over when sick. She has not seen him forget to take out the trash or forget to bring home a specific item she asked for. She has not seen him leave the toilet seat up. She has not had disagreements nor arguments with this guy. In short, she has not lived with him.
> 
> She has only seen the good in this other guy. He is the guy at work who is always dressed nice and has told her first what a good job she is doing and then told her how grateful he is to have her working there. He is the one that compliments her on her looks occasionally. Because he is upper management, his compliments mean more.
> 
> Lots of women fall into an EA because they are suddenly treated as if they are attractive and wanted by someone they admire. Like they are suddenly young again and are being chased. They soak up the attention. It feels great to them and they want to keep it coming so they communicate with the OM often. If not stopped, it sometimes goes to the point where they will do anything to keep the attention and compliments coming.
> 
> I don't think a husband can compete if his wife is open to the attention of others.


Well said.


----------



## bandit.45

Yeswecan said:


> Or maybe the marriage is not being nurtured as it should be.


Marriages don't cheat, people cheat.


----------



## Beach123

bandit.45 said:


> Marriages don't cheat, people cheat.


yep! People who don’t have a healthy boundary or respect for their spouse.


----------



## Gabriel

OP is clearly reading something into every behavior and action is wife is taking. His gut is screaming at him and this site is making it even more heightened for him. Yet, so far, it really doesn't seem like she's up to anything bad. Location is on point, messages are about work, etc. And now he has tipped his hand, so she is going to be super careful and it seems like she's snooping on his snooping (which is the first time I've seen that, I think).

OP, you are going to drive yourself crazy. My advice is to back off for awhile. This will accomplish two things. First, if you tell your wife you believe her and back off, she will relax. And once she relaxes, if she is up to something, she'll let her guard down, and you can slide back in and check on things later. Second, you will get to reset yourself and take a break. It'll be good for your mental health. I'd take 2 weeks off from monitoring her and in those 2 weeks be more relaxed around her, be obvious about your "comfort" and get her off your scent. Then ease back in after the 2 weeks and see if there is anything there.


----------



## bandit.45

At the very least, her boundaries are at question here. I agree with Gabriel that OP should hang back now and watch and see what she does.


----------



## Yeswecan

TDSC60 said:


> Your wife has not seen him puking his guts up and looking like death warmed over when sick. She has not seen him forget to take out the trash or forget to bring home a specific item she asked for. She has not seen him leave the toilet seat up. She has not had disagreements nor arguments with this guy. In short, she has not lived with him.
> 
> She has only seen the good in this other guy. He is the guy at work who is always dressed nice and has told her first what a good job she is doing and then told her how grateful he is to have her working there. He is the one that compliments her on her looks occasionally. Because he is upper management, his compliments mean more.
> 
> Lots of women fall into an EA because they are suddenly treated as if they are attractive and wanted by someone they admire. Like they are suddenly young again and are being chased. They soak up the attention. It feels great to them and they want to keep it coming so they communicate with the OM often. If not stopped, it sometimes goes to the point where they will do anything to keep the attention and compliments coming.
> 
> I don't think a husband can compete if his wife is open to the attention of others.


Never a truer assertion. One day a coworker of mine(female) stated I ignore her. I'm not ignoring. I'm working. It is a business and I talk business. That is all. Furthermore when this coworker is the bosses W I keep on working and keep all conversation on the level. 

Dipping your pen in the company ink is not good for a career.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Hacker1234 said:


> I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject. Very interesting. I had no idea. So it appears an EA can start and they don't even know it till they are really into it. I get the whole mouth shut eyes open thing now.
> 
> Good news it appears I can combat this a bit. *Looks like EAs can start when something is missing in the relationship, they don't go looking for it. It just kind of happens. So if there is something, I need to find it and provide it.*
> 
> So far everything appears to be normal. No texts in a week. At least none that I am aware of. Relationship is fine, no issues I can see. Nothing fishy has been happening.


Continue researching because you are a bit off. The "need to find it and provide it" is called infatuation, limerance, new relationship energy, attention from a new source IN ADDITION to the stable and love you can provide.

I am not saying she's cheating. But it is obvious she has poor boundaries and, if she's not already considering it, or has tipped her toes in already, she is definitely a candidate for cheating. I believe she is well aware of how she feels about him, she enjoys his attention, and you are not going to dissuade her because she believes she is in control and she can maintain it. To me, it is similar to imbibe alcohol or drugs "a little bit" - it's easy to go too far when your judgement is impaired. If you are researching, maybe you should research a bit about drug chemicals in the brain in love, the difference between the chemicals when you are in a new romance or an older romance. We all can easily override those feelings the chemicals cause, but we also can falter, too.

Definitely, your wife has something going on that is MORE than just work, whether it is an according to Hoyle "affair," I can't tell.

I believe the best advice is to keep your mouth shut and eyes open. If you have realized you can improve your marriage by doing things you were not doing, or stop doing things you shouldn't have been doing, go ahead, that is a good idea.

If you research by reading other stories here and elsewhere, you will undoubtedly come across a number of husbands in long-term marriages who say "My wife acted funny, was close to her boss, it bothered me and I told her, it didn't really change right away, but eventually it ended and she left that job and she has been a great wife for the past 5 years. Recently I asked her about it and she said she kissed him once. After asking her over and over again, she finally admitted she had a one-month affair and it ended when his wife found out." You can interchange details, but it is not uncommon to hear a story simliar to that. I imagine that this happens more than we think and most guys probably never find out because their wives never tell. I don't believe there's too much you can do about it. If it were me, and I really had a suspicion, I would put a voice-activated recorder in her car for a week or so. And I would keep my mouth shut and eyes open.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah I agree I need to back off a bit and reset. She has appeared to do the same. Let's see what happens. The strange thing is for some reason for the past week she doesn't seem to interested in work, I know something happened last week. She has said twice in the last week if she could quit she would. I have noticed she has been looking at the job sites.


----------



## bandit.45

Ultimately, what does your gut tell you? The gut never lies. We have seen that proven time and time again on this site.


----------



## Hacker1234

My gut is telling me, whatever it was, it's over.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> My gut is telling me, whatever it was, it's over.


OP, if something happened you need to find out what. Do not let rugsweep this. Because if you do, is very probable is going to happen again. Put a keylogger on your computer. There maybe you can find out what she surfs. Could be something related to how to end an affair or how to tell a spouse about an affair, etc.
Buy a Pen VAR. Here is a link from Amazon. There are other models available. 






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----------



## Gabriel

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah I agree I need to back off a bit and reset. She has appeared to do the same. Let's see what happens. The strange thing is for some reason for the past week she doesn't seem to interested in work, I know something happened last week. She has said twice in the last week if she could quit she would. I have noticed she has been looking at the job sites.


This is very interesting, actually. Before this was she pretty enthusiastic about her job? If she's done a 180 about her job I think it's fair to ask. You can gauge her reaction to see if it sounds legit (no way would she ever tell you it's because of this guy).


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah I agree I need to back off a bit and reset.


Absolutely. Let her relax.



Hacker1234 said:


> She has appeared to do the same. Let's see what happens. The strange thing is for some reason for the past week she doesn't seem to interested in work, I know something happened last week. She has said twice in the last week if she could quit she would. I have noticed she has been looking at the job sites.


I see a few possibilities of what might have happened. In no particular order:

She might have realized that despite there being absolutely no basis for your suspicion of some king of inappropriate behavior between her and her boss the job is not worth possibly damaging your relationship so she's going to move on just to be safe.
She might have broken off a full blown affair with the boss and now he's pressuring her to resume playing slap and tickle in his office so she's trying to get away from him.
She might have realized that she was starting to move in an unhealthy direction and decided to nip it in the bud. 
Or maybe she's just bored with the job and wants a new challenge and a few more bucks. 

Keep on with the eyes open mouth shut and see what you find. Keylogger/var not a bad idea either, just don't get caught.


----------



## Gabriel

OP, I do think you need to address what are obviously trust issues between you. Early on, you said she googled a random phone number that came up on your phone. People don't normally do that. Then you feel she is watching your snooping and testing you. Then of course, you are doing a ton of monitoring and feeling suspicious of her. 

Seems you two need to have a sit down and deal with this - clearly neither of you trusts the other, and that's a problem.


----------



## TDSC60

I really have not seen you present anything that screams cheater. I agree that her behavior could look suspect but you have no hard evidence. She could be hiding the inappropriate communications or they could be flirting in person at the office. But you do not know that yet.

But the sudden change in her attitude about her job does give you the opportunity to ask her why and what caused the change. I would ask her what has happened to make her want to quit.


----------



## ABHale

I don’t believe that I would be buying a new home right now. Especially with her playing fk fk games.


----------



## ABHale

Hacker1234 said:


> My gut is telling me, whatever it was, it's over.


Can you really live with that?

She had her fun and now she is back?


----------



## Thevengfulone

Hacker1234 said:


> I have a weird feeling something isn't right, but maybe it is nothing.
> Wife and I have been married close to 20 years. We have 3 kids and we both have successful careers. Our marriage is good, no real problems other than the regular issues in life we all face. Sometimes I do forget to take out the trash. Sex life has zero issues and very regular. I would say we have it pretty good.
> 
> However over the past couple months something has been bugging me. The owner of the business she works at, she talks about him a lot. She will come home and say, he said this or did that. She talks him up all the time. Recently she got a raise out of nowhere, turns out it she was the only one.
> 
> I have looked at her phone, they do text but it is only work related stuff. All harmless. They are not friends on Facebook. There is nothing out of the ordinary in her activities.
> 
> Last night, she brought him up again. And I made a snarky reply like oh your boy friend did that. She laughed.
> 
> Later that night, I am in the yard doing some work. I must have struck a nerve, because she brought up what I said. I let her know that her talking about him all the time is bugging me. Then she said oh don't worry he is married with kids. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.
> 
> Then later we sat in bed for a while and chatted about stuff. We did have sex, which I did find interesting. Because normally she has an issue if we do it on consecutive days. We had done it the night before.
> 
> So I don't know. Maybe it is nothing, maybe she likes the guy or something. At this point I know there is nothing physical.
> 
> What are your thoughts.


Sound's like she is starting to have an interest in this guy. If they are the only ones at her work then I can understand why she talks about him. She might not have realized she was bringing him up so much in conversations. The weird part is when she says after he say's (Oh don't worry he is married with kids) That has never stopped anyone from cheating if they want to cheat! He might not be doing anything wrong but your wife might be enough of a temptation something could start up.Lay low but keep an eye on the situation.


----------



## Hacker1234

The reset is going very good, life is normal.

She did mention him this weekend. Something about the boss being very stressed at work, used to be very talkative and that all stopped. Again this morning she had no interest to going to work.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Does "reset" mean she rarely brings him up and if she does a tiny bit you keep your mouth shut?

I don't like the word "normal" because if you are posting here, it ain't normal, in my opinion.

Good that she apparently lost interest in The Owner Fan Club. We may never know what happened. I didn't see an affair, but a lack of boundaries, and ripe for an affair. I seriously doubt anything you did or say had much of an influence on it. Maybe the owner was watering the grass somewhere else and she saw through him. He fell from Grace somehow in your wife's eyes.

I guess you just be aware for the next time. There is a reason she thought and spoke so highly of him, and why it stopped, why she was so hot to trot with that job, but now she's not, but she isn't sharing it with you, and you are as clueless as the rest of us. Maybe it was nothing from day one and she is one who talks up people she likes. It sure would benefit nice if she shared her feelings with you, though, in my opinion. Maybe some day.


----------



## Gabriel

Hacker1234 said:


> The reset is going very good, life is normal.
> 
> She did mention him this weekend. Something about the boss being very stressed at work, used to be very talkative and that all stopped. Again this morning she had no interest to going to work.


Thanks for the update. Give it another week. Then sleuth a bit more and if the sky is clear then you are probably in good shape.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> The reset is going very good, life is normal.
> 
> She did mention him this weekend. Something about the boss being very stressed at work, used to be very talkative and that all stopped. Again this morning she had no interest to going to work.


Maybe work isn't as much fun for him for some reason. I hope you replied with a noncommittal grunt.


----------



## Captainswan86

Hacker1234 said:


> I have a weird feeling something isn't right, but maybe it is nothing.
> Wife and I have been married close to 20 years. We have 3 kids and we both have successful careers. Our marriage is good, no real problems other than the regular issues in life we all face. Sometimes I do forget to take out the trash. Sex life has zero issues and very regular. I would say we have it pretty good.
> 
> However over the past couple months something has been bugging me. The owner of the business she works at, she talks about him a lot. She will come home and say, he said this or did that. She talks him up all the time. Recently she got a raise out of nowhere, turns out it she was the only one.
> 
> I have looked at her phone, they do text but it is only work related stuff. All harmless. They are not friends on Facebook. There is nothing out of the ordinary in her activities.
> 
> Last night, she brought him up again. And I made a snarky reply like oh your boy friend did that. She laughed.
> 
> Later that night, I am in the yard doing some work. I must have struck a nerve, because she brought up what I said. I let her know that her talking about him all the time is bugging me. Then she said oh don't worry he is married with kids. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.
> 
> Then later we sat in bed for a while and chatted about stuff. We did have sex, which I did find interesting. Because normally she has an issue if we do it on consecutive days. We had done it the night before.
> 
> So I don't know. Maybe it is nothing, maybe she likes the guy or something. At this point I know there is nothing physical.
> 
> What are your thoughts.


It’s honestly probably nothing but you said she says oh he does this or that what is she referring too I’ve done this because it’s something I’d wish my husband would do without being told it’s like subtle hints it’s a little vague on the situation but a little more input I’d be happy to tell you what I think


----------



## Hacker1234

I know I should be doing a reset, but I just had to peek today. So after about 3 weeks of no texting, they texted a bit today. The convo was again all work related, no big deal. But I compared it to the text log, and it looks like she deleted 3 texts she sent. All his texts were there, and the convo made sense. So she either sent him something she didn't want me to see, there is some weird problem with the text logs, or she deleted them on purpose to catch me. By the way everything seems normal, nothing weird that I can see.


----------



## Hacker1234

I dug deeper, found a text from today that the OM brought in chocolate from her friend, couple of deleted texts. Also she has been having breakfast most mornings, this is after we have it together in the morning. The days match when he is in the office.


----------



## dreamer2017

Like I said before.... She is always one step ahead of you. She is having an affair. Report the affair to her HR department.


----------



## Nucking Futs

dreamer2017 said:


> Like I said before.... She is always one step ahead of you. She is having an affair. Report the affair to her HR department.


No. This is not only not proof of an affair, it's not even evidence. Easily explained away. She could easily claim there were no deleted texts, it's just a glitch. She could claim that she accidentally sent the same text multiple times so deleted the extras.

I agree she's baiting you with this stuff. She's trying to figure out if you're still trying to catch her. Do not react at all. If you don't react she might relax and get sloppy, and with a workplace affair getting sloppy is frequently the only way to catch it unless they're leaving the office to do it and you've got a PI watching her.

Eyes open, mouth shut, continue monitoring.


----------



## Robert22205

Has your wife lost weight, become more conscious of her appearance - or dressed up more for work?

If breakfast with the Boss is a recent development, then their connection is escalating (i.e., becoming more risky). Does she go in early to have breakfast with her Boss or is it on company time?

Is it just the two of them? Where do they go for breakfast? Something like MacDonald's or more of a restaurant? Do they walk or drive?

Can you explain who her friend is that give the Boss chocolate which he then brings in?
Lot's of innuendos available relating to chocolate that she may delete. For example, don't you think I'm sweet enough?

If she's going to breakfast with her Boss, then she's deleting the texts relating to breakfast and anything else that's not strictly business related.

You can arrange to visually confirm breakfast (and whether it's just the two of them). Once you confirm (and especially if she lies to you to cover it up), then you can plan your next step.

At this point she'll still insist they're just friends and she has no romantic interest in him.

The standard line of BS is: you made her cover it up .... she covered it up to protect you ... she had to cover it up to avoid drama over you being unreasonably jealous.

IMO, the deleted texts and secret (she knows you wouldn't approve) breakfasts are enough to be suspicious - but not quite enough to rock her world enough for her to back off.

Unfortunately, by covering things up and allowing things to escalate she's putting you in a position where you may have to insist that she change jobs. And that's not your fault - but rather a consequence of her inappropriate behavior.

IMO, your wife will back off if you collect enough evidence where you can then threaten to show his wife.


----------



## cocolo2019

If she is having breakfast with her boss alone after having breakfast already at her home, she is making an effort to share time with this man. Place a Pen VAR in her pulse. 
Also, use Dr. Phone or Phonelab to recover those texts.
And remember the poker face and stealth hat, and don't confront without a solid evidence.


----------



## Hacker1234

It's Starbucks and its walking distance. Now I know the days and times. This will be easy to catch.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> It's Starbucks and its walking distance. Now I know the days and times. This will be easy to catch.


If you are going to play detective, try to get a different car. Talk to a trusted l friend and see if he can lend you a car. Try to keep a fair distance and try to see what is her demeanor when she is close to this man. Or, if you can afford a PI, try to set him(her) for those days and besides to let you know about her demeanor, s(he) could record what they talk about.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> It's Starbucks and its walking distance. Now I know the days and times. This will be easy to catch.


Wait, she's eating breakfast at home then going to breakfast with him also? Do you know if they're going straight to breakfast, or straight back to work after? This is an opportunity you don't want to screw up. Get a PI on the case, have her watched on a day he's going to be there from the time she gets to work until one of them leaves for the day or the PI decides he has enough evidence.


----------



## Robert22205

Amazon sells a couple of VARs that look and act like a pen.

What does she eat at home for breakfast?

Breakfast at Starbucks isn't much of a meal. She could just be getting a coffee and a danish pastry (or just coffee).

Why just the two of them? Are they going to Starbucks before anyone else arrives for work?

Is she paying for her own food/coffee?


----------



## Robert22205

At a minimum you need to establish they do this every time he's in the office.

I suggest using a pen VAR to record their conversation.


----------



## ABHale

Your wife is definitely cold hearted. The length she is going to just to mess with you “if” she isn’t having an affair.


----------



## Hacker1234

It appears she gets to work, then about 30 mins later goes. She could be going with anyone. But 2 breakfasts is weird.


----------



## Robert22205

Why do you say it's breakfast? It could be just coffee.

Do they purchase something and return immediately to the office? Or stay and chat.

Something you can check out for yourself first hand.


----------



## syhoybenden

Robert22205 said:


> Why do you say it's breakfast? It could be just coffee.


It could be just a quickie.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP, maintaining anonymity, are there more females where your wife works? I am asking you because if there are more, why.is your wife the only one who is accompanying him to this breakfast or coffee break?

I am not saying she is cheating, but she could be developing a friendship with OM. The problem is, that way is how emotional affairs begin if there are not adequate boundaries. If you want to know if he is hitting on her or vice versa (the other way around), or if they are already in some kind of relationship, the pen VAR will help you.


----------



## mickybill

Glitch? Sure the multi billion dollar communications company has a glitch that just loses her texts...with her boss.
Nope the simple answer is that she is deleting them.

PS if you can afford it get PI to go to starbucks he or she could sit near them while sipping a latte. They may be discussing the TPS reports or their next meet up.


----------



## Nucking Futs

mickybill said:


> Glitch? Sure the multi billion dollar communications company has a glitch that just loses her texts...with her boss.
> Nope the simple answer is that she is deleting them.
> 
> PS if you can afford it get PI to go to starbucks he or she could sit near them while sipping a latte. They may be discussing the TPS reports or their next meet up.


Nah, not a glitch that deletes messages, a glitch that makes messages show up that didn't really happen. That kind of crap is more common than you may think. But the reality of cellular billing errors doesn't really matter. Can you prove it wasn't a glitch? No? Then it's not proof of cheating. 

No, if she's cheating, and odds are she is, you can catch her, but this isn't it. It's just another red flag.


----------



## Hacker1234

It is really glitchy, for example I was just looking at my log. It shows my wife texted me 3 times, 5 hours into the future. So weird. It would look shady if you were trying to compare logs after the fact.


----------



## Hacker1234

We did have a weird convo this morning and I think she almost mistakenly outed her out. We were at Starbucks getting some drinks, and she needed to reload her account. I said didn't you just reload it. She said yeah but we went...... and then mid sentence stopped.


----------



## OutofRetirement

I don't like when it reaches game-playing. What game is it, hide and seek? Why don't you just tell her that deleted texts are unacceptable to you in the marriage? If you told her either stop deleting or I'm going to consider leaving you, which would she choose? Tell her you know about Starbucks and you're done with her lies. Tell her no more lies, or you're going to consider leaving her. This is not what marriage is about. I don't want to play this game anymore.

I do think some people enjoy the games. It never was my thing.


----------



## cocolo2019

OutofRetirement said:


> I don't like when it reaches game-playing. What game is it, hide and seek? Why don't you just tell her that deleted texts are unacceptable to you in the marriage? If you told her either stop deleting or I'm going to consider leaving you, which would she choose? Tell her you know about Starbucks and you're done with her lies. Tell her no more lies, or you're going to consider leaving her. This is not what marriage is about. I don't want to play this game anymore.
> 
> I do think some people enjoy the games. It never was my thing.


He already talked to her. If he does that everything could go underground. Talkaboutmarriage.com wisdom tells that he ought to be stealthy and act normal.


----------



## Nucking Futs

cocolo2019 said:


> He already talked to her. If he does that everything could will go underground. Talkaboutmarriage.com wisdom tells that he ought to be stealthy and act normal.


Fify.


----------



## OutofRetirement

cocolo2019 said:


> He already talked to her. If he does that everything could go underground. Talkaboutmarriage.com wisdom tells that he ought to be stealthy and act normal.


It's already underground. She's deleting. There is no wisdom in staying in a marriage with lies like that.


----------



## Music_Man

There's an old country song that says "I can't see a single storm cloud in the sky, but I sure can smell the rain". 

Something is amiss here. Continue to lay low, but snoop like hell.


----------



## syhoybenden

She knows you know.

You know she knows you know.

So, why keep up the charade?

Cards on the table time.

Down and dirty.


----------



## Nucking Futs

syhoybenden said:


> She knows you know.
> 
> You know she knows you know.
> 
> So, why keep up the charade?
> 
> Cards on the table time.
> 
> Down and dirty.


The problem is he doesn't know. He suspects, he has some red flags, some hints, but no hard data. He knows she's been going to starbucks with someone and suspects it's him because it's on days he's there, but it's just as reasonable to believe she's just making a coffee run for the office and he's reimbursing her for it later. There are apparently missing texts, but he's verified the texting data he's looking at is not reliable. A confrontation now is jumping the gun. Sneaking in various disguised vars and a PI are the best bets right now, but I really think she knows he's on to her, has backed off whatever was going on, and is now setting him up to look foolish with a confrontation that she can prove is over innocent coincidences. I think she wants to paint him as the crazy jealous husband to friends and family so she can cheat and he won't have the nerve to confront again. 

Hacker, is her phone apple or android?


----------



## lucy999

Do NOT I repeat do NOT put a VAR pen in your wife's purse. My purse is huge and sometimes a mess, but you can bet I know every errant paperclip, hair tie, and piece of lint in every purse I own (and I have alot of purses!). She will find it.


----------



## Robert22205

You said that she corrected herself to avoid admitting she's been going to Starbucks frequently enough to reload her card. Is she normally defensive about how she often she goes to Starbucks or spends money?

You can look at her Starbuck's purchase history. It'll show the time, place and amount of each purchase. Just click on the Starbuck's icon on her cell phone.

Maybe every day for a week, find out who she's going with.

Confirm yourself if she and the Boss go to Starbucks (and how long they stay)....or whether they just buy a drink and walk back carrying their drink/drinks for the office.

If she's going to Starbucks with him every day (or only when he's in the office), rather than confront immediately, I suggest you first give her a chance to confess/lie.

Why? because if she lies it's no longer about her just having coffee. If she lies, that makes her a liar and now you have no basis to trust anything she says (especially that they're just friends). Plus it's evidence that:

1 - she knows (after you expressed your concern) her spending time alone with the Boss would upset you, and

2 - this is not just a 'friendship' anymore. She's now enjoying his attention so much that she's willing to lie to her husband to keep it going. And this is the reason she must stop.

Ask her something like: I noticed the other day that you had to refill your Starbucks card ... are you and the other girls in the office going to Starbucks every day? See if she says yes .... or acknowledges she's been going with the Boss.


----------



## jlg07

I second the PI -- if they are this blatant while at work when he is in the office, should be easy for a PI to find out things... ESPECIALLY if she is playing games like this trying to catch YOU snooping.


----------



## mickybill

Nucking Futs said:


> Nah, not a glitch that deletes messages, a glitch that makes messages show up that didn't really happen. That kind of crap is more common than you may think. But the reality of cellular billing errors doesn't really matter. Can you prove it wasn't a glitch? No? Then it's not proof of cheating.
> 
> No, if she's cheating, and odds are she is, you can catch her, but this isn't it. It's just another red flag.


I have had old messages show up again. How does it make messages that didn't happen? Seriously, I'm curious, where do the messages come from?


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

I think the OP likes keeping his head buried in the sand because it's so nice and warm around his ears. 😕


----------



## Nucking Futs

mickybill said:


> I have had old messages show up again. How does it make messages that didn't happen? Seriously, I'm curious, where do the messages come from?


It's not necessarily making messages that didn't happen, it's usually putting the wrong date/time stamp on it or duplicate logging another message.


----------



## Robert22205

I think if she lies about going to Starbucks, then you should be prepared to take much (much) more dramatic action (than just verbally complaining). 

You don't have a history of being jealous or commenting on her friends. You expressed your concerns about her interest in the Boss and you asked respectfully etc. 

If she's deleting personal texts between them and going to coffee alone with the Boss (and especially if she lies about it), then she clearly does not take your 'concerns' seriously. 

She has decided that her enjoyment of the Boss's attention is more important that her husband's discomfort and peace of mind.

Why?
1 - Probably because she enjoys his attention and feels she's in control and it's harmless (and she's certain it won't escalate to a PA). 
2 - And last (but not least), even though you don't like it, she's certain that you won't divorce her over her behavior.

She's going to continue bathing in the Boss's attention until you pull the plug and force the issue with an ultimatum: she must chose the Boss or her husband. 

Before you have that confrontation, I suggest you see your attorney (the first hour is usually free) about how divorce will impact you. 

Talking to an attorney before confronting her makes a powerful statement that you are serious will no longer tolerate her behavior; and telling her about your meeting with the attorney is a good segway into informing her that she's been caught lying and is no longer trust worthy.


----------



## ABHale

You should have pushed “we who went to Starbucks?” That you already know she goes there every time her boss is in the office. That you are tired of her games and deciding if the marriage is worth the games she is playing.


----------



## Keepin-my-head-up

I would think the boss would pay if they were going to Starbucks for a work related issue.
Also, if he were courting/being intimate with her, wouldn’t he also pay?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> I would think the boss would pay if they were going to Starbucks for a work related issue.
> Also, if he were courting/being intimate with her, wouldn’t he also pay?


Boss could be a cheapskate? No, they both are dancing around the elephant in the room. Hacker, "EYES OPEN MOUTH SHUT". That is an order. Get a PI on the case. Money well spent. How long do you intend to live in limbo? Not long I hope. If I am correct, you need to pull the band aid off and do what is necessary.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> I would think the boss would pay if they were going to Starbucks for a work related issue.
> Also, if he were courting/being intimate with her, wouldn’t he also pay?


Not that unusual to be reimbursed for expenses.


----------



## Hacker1234

I found something interesting. So the call logs don't capture missed calls. I noticed on her phone after the 3 suspected deleted texts, he called her 2 mins later, she didn't pick up. 10 mins later according to the google stuff she went into visual voice mail. I checked it, and there was no voice mail at that time. So she must have deleted it. She also checked it later that night around 10pm.

Looks like something is going on.


----------



## Hacker1234

One other thing, in the string of texts between them that morning, she asked him when he is coming in.


----------



## Hacker1234

Another strange little thing. My wife likes to doodle a lot. Typically stuff that is on her mind. I found in her purse a doodle that said. Need an accomplice, on a note card. And she scribbled it out.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> I found something interesting. So the call logs don't capture missed calls. I noticed on her phone after the 3 suspected deleted texts, he called her 2 mins later, she didn't pick up. 10 mins later according to the google stuff she went into visual voice mail. I checked it, and there was no voice mail at that time. So she must have deleted it. She also checked it later that night around 10pm.
> 
> Looks like something is going on.


You don't have enough clear evidence to convince family or friends that she's cheating, nor do you have enough evidence to convince her that you can prove it to anyone. If you confront her with what you have she's going to deny it, claim it's all coincidence, gaslight you and try to get everyone you know to convince you that you're wrong. By the time she's done with you you won't dare accuse her of cheating again. So confronting her with what you have right now is a losing proposition. I haven't seen you respond to any of the many suggestions for a PI so I'm guessing you don't want to do that. Are you capable of continuing to act normal in light of what you've been finding? If you won't go for a PI, and you don't think you can keep faking it, you should just go ahead and hire a lawyer and have her served at work. Don't bother talking to her about it ahead of time, let the papers open the conversation.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Another strange little thing. My wife likes to doodle a lot. Typically stuff that is on her mind. I found in her purse a doodle that said. Need an accomplice, on a note card. And she scribbled it out.


Btw, it's still possible she's ****ing with you rather than cheating, but if she is she's too stupid to stay married to anyway.


----------



## Hacker1234

I'm going to hold off on the PI at the moment. I think I have enough to catch her. The question is, if I catch her in the act. What do I do? BTW, with what you have seen, do you think something is up.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> I'm going to hold off on the PI at the moment. I think I have enough to catch her. The question is, if I catch her in the act. What do I do? BTW, with what you have seen, do you think something is up.


Yeah, she's cheating, you just don't have the proof yet. I'm not sure how "in the act" you mean when you say catch her in the act. You really don't want to see her actually engaged in sex with another man, it's way tougher to handle. As far as catching her meaning having enough proof that she's no longer denying, what do you want? Do you want to stay married to her but have her stop cheating? Do you want to divorce with a good settlement? What's your goal?


----------



## ABHale

Hacker1234 said:


> I'm going to hold off on the PI at the moment. I think I have enough to catch her. The question is, if I catch her in the act. What do I do? BTW, with what you have seen, do you think something is up.


Yes something is up. She is either cheating, has him as just a friend or is f’ing with you. All of which is at the cost of your marriage.

You have to answer one thing, is she worth the hell she is putting you through right now? If not file for divorce. If so find a way to live with it.

I still think you should file for divorce and have her served at work. Even better if it is on a day her boss is there.


----------



## Hacker1234

I guess catching them at Starbucks. The weird thing is, I'd always figure if anyone was to cheat it was me. Over the the years I've seem some crazy stuff. Mind-blowing stuff. I've literally been in a position to cheat many times and have always denied it. Either traveling or being in odd situation. I've always after all of those told my wife exactly what happened and what could have happened. Couple mins of fun is not something to destroy a marriage. That is my outlook. If she is infact cheating, she doesn't share that. I am not sure what would come of this.


----------



## mickybill

If you do catch then at starbucks, won;t she be able to talk her way out if it? Are they really at starbucks or are they in his car getting frisky? A PI still might be the way as she might see you before you see her.


----------



## cocolo2019

I don't want to be the discordant note here, but I think you don't have a solid evidence. Everything you have right now could be explained and if you ask her about the voice mail, the text or the card you will be putting yourself on a position of a paranoid and she will gaslight you. 

And if you go to Starbuck and found them drinking a coffee (something that is pretty normal), she will notice you are on to her and, if something is happening, everything will go underground, and if something is not happening she will put you the hat of a jealous stalker. 
Now, if you want to catch her on a car with him, that's another thing, but make sure you catch them making out and not talking only, because even though the situation would be embarrassing, it would not be the silver bullet.
Another thing, I think you said she walks to Starbucks, so found her in a car is not practicable. 
OP, the parking lot at her work is below a roof? I mean, is it a multilevel parking lot or an open one? I am asking because you don't know if they escape to have a "private chat" in her car on working hours. So, get the VAR ASAP.

Stay low, I think she is relaxing because you have been wearing the poker face and the stealth hat. 
Ah, other question, that combo of texting and calls was on working days or this weekend?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Android or apple?


----------



## cocolo2019

Nucking Futs said:


> Android or apple?


Good question from Nucking. If it Apple I think there are ways to synchronize it with the computer and you can get almost everything.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> I'm going to hold off on the PI at the moment. I think I have enough to catch her. The question is, if I catch her in the act. What do I do? BTW, with what you have seen, do you think something is up.


It is probable that something is going on. Also, it is probable that if you show your card beforehand, you will miss the opportunity to discover the truth.


----------



## Nucking Futs

cocolo2019 said:


> Good question from Nucking. If it Apple I think there are ways to synchronize it with the computer and you can get almost everything.


That's why I'm asking.


----------



## Hacker1234

It's android.


----------



## Hacker1234

Here is a brain dump summary of things I found.

She was talking about her boss a lot. It bugged me and I brought it up. They are just friends, he is married with kids yada yada yada. There was about a 2 week period where I was noticing little things that got my gut going. Talking about the guy a lot, caring about working out more, buying new clothes, used teeth whitening, use spray tanning and started wearing contacts. She was looking at his facebook page. I was very suspicious, I started peaking at her phone. She noticed. Few days later she texted him and deleted it on purpose, to see if I was snooping. We had a little d day when I confronted her.

After that the texts dropped down, and all the stuff dropped. At one point she deleted her facebook history. I am laying low. About 3 weeks go by and not a single text between them. Then suddenly a string of texts, the log does not match up, looks like texts were deleted, but the convo makes sense. None of his texts were deleted. About 2 minutes after the string of suspected deleted texts, he calls her, it goes to voice mail. She checks 10 minutes later. I checked for it appears it is deleted, she checks voice mail later that night. Later during that day her co worker sends her a pic of chocolate on her desk. Again some deleted texts, the convo does not line up, but the chocolate were from the OM. She left those texts for some reason.

Looks like she is going to starbucks on some mornings, mix of snacks and drinks. No clue if she is just going alone, with a coworker or with him. She is paying.

Also I know they are talking about more personal stuff. One day I was saying, I want to do XYZ. She said well his Wife did XYZ and he hated it.

Again, they are not texting late at night or weekends. No weird apps on the phone. Texts are all confined to working hours when he is not in the office. But the last string of texts, she did ask if he was coming into work.

That is all I can remember at the moment.

The other thing, she doesn't feel distant, not picking fights or anything. Sex life is normal. Really everything feels really normal.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Here is a brain dump summary of things I found.
> 
> She was talking about her boss a lot. It bugged me and I brought it up. They are just friends, he is married with kids yada yada yada. There was about a 2 week period where I was noticing little things that got my gut going. Talking about the guy a lot, caring about working out more, buying new clothes, used teeth whitening, use spray tanning and started wearing contacts. She was looking at his facebook page. I was very suspicious, I started peaking at her phone. She noticed. Few days later she texted him and deleted it on purpose, to see if I was snooping. We had a little d day when I confronted her.
> 
> After that the texts dropped down, and all the stuff dropped. At one point she deleted her facebook history. I am laying low. About 3 weeks go by and not a single text between them. Then suddenly a string of texts, the log does not match up, looks like texts were deleted, but the convo makes sense. None of his texts were deleted. About 2 minutes after the string of suspected deleted texts, he calls her, it goes to voice mail. She checks 10 minutes later. I checked for it appears it is deleted, she checks voice mail later that night. Later during that day her co worker sends her a pic of chocolate on her desk. Again some deleted texts, the convo does not line up, but the chocolate were from the OM. She left those texts for some reason.
> 
> Looks like she is going to starbucks on some mornings, mix of snacks and drinks. No clue if she is just going alone, with a coworker or with him. She is paying.
> 
> Also I know they are talking about more personal stuff. One day I was saying, I want to do XYZ. She said well his Wife did XYZ and he hated it.
> 
> Again, they are not texting late at night or weekends. No weird apps on the phone. Texts are all confined to working hours when he is not in the office. But the last string of texts, she did ask if he was coming into work.
> 
> That is all I can remember at the moment.
> 
> The other thing, she doesn't feel distant, not picking fights or anything. Sex life is normal. Really everything feels really normal.


Ugh. I know I said I thought she was cheating but seeing it laid out like that I don't know, it looks like you caught an incipient ea and now everything looks like evidence. Working out, contacts, spray tan, teeth whitening, all red flags. The chocolates on her desk don't look good, but the starbucks thing, if you don't know if he's going with her it could be her just going and picking stuff up for co-workers while she's there. Not going every day could mean they're taking turns going. Checking to see if the boss who doesn't always come in is coming in is pretty normal. Back up to eyes open mouth shut stance. 

Do you have access to the phone? Could you take it while she's asleep and add an app to it?


----------



## lucy999

Thanks for the recap. Not enough evidence to confront. Hold off or get a PI.


----------



## Robert22205

Can you confirm for yourself who she's going to coffee with?

*.... working out more, buying new clothes, used teeth whitening, use spray tanning and started wearing contacts. *

Did you mention the above observations to her? If so, what did she say?


----------



## Hacker1234

About the coffee, yes I can probably figure that out. I need to stop by her office one morning to drop something off around the time she goes for coffee.

And yes I did bring up all of those things to her. And she explained them away. The weird thing is it all stopped though.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Hacker1234 said:


> About the coffee, yes I can probably figure that out. I need to stop by her office one morning to drop something off around the time she goes for coffee.
> 
> And yes I did bring up all of those things to her. And she explained them away. The weird thing is it all stopped though.


Did she explain why she didn't tell you about Starbucks?

Did she explain why she deleted the texts? Not the ones that she said she did on purpose to to get your goat, the other ones?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Nucking Futs said:


> Do you have access to the phone? Could you take it while she's asleep and add an app to it?


How about this?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

Open your eyes and keep your mouth shut. It appears you are trying to rationalize her behavior. Stop. If it was me I would simply take her damn phone and recover all the deleted information. Man up sir.


----------



## Robert22205

If possible, you need to observe who she goes to coffee with more than just one morning.

Otherwise, you're setting yourself up to fail. Because she'll say it's just once etc.

Ideally, you need observe for at least a week (without her knowing).

And then ask her who she goes to coffee with (and see if she lies). The lie is a big deal vs just going to coffee. The lie is evidence that this is a relationship that she 'needs' to keep even if it means lying to her husband.

And a married woman shouldn't need the attention of another man. Even she has to admit that.


----------



## Taxman

This is a minor detective thing: You need to book out of work and drive by the Starbucks. One client resisted, she was absolutely sure that he was not skipping off in the morning after she got to work for a coffee date. Sure enough, she books off work without telling him, and finds him sitting in a Donut shop ten minutes from their house. He was holding his AP's hand when he heard his wife order a Latte. He looks over to find that she is smiling at him. Just a brief word between them, "Hi hon, you're done." is what she told him. She was surprised when the AP demands to know just who she is, and my client says "I'm the wife, WTF are you?" AP stammers out, I'm so sorry, I did not know, OMG looking at the husband, what a prick? She hesitates before leaving, then tells my client that they have slept together, although now she just wants to go home to shower and douche.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP,


Hacker1234 said:


> *Talking about the guy a lot, caring about working out more, buying new clothes, used teeth whitening, use spray tanning and started wearing contacts. *
> 
> Woa OP, this is new. That I remember, you never said anything about working out more, buying new clothes, teeth whitening and spray tanning. These are huge red flags. At least it seems she likes OM or wants to get his attention.
> What about the chocolate message from her friend? What was the tone of the message? That friend could be a toxic one or an enabler.
> 
> You said she is not picking fight and sex life is normal. That is good. If she was an exit affair type of cheater, that means she has not had sex with him yet.
> But, if she is the Cake-Eaters type, that's another league. Cake-Eaters have the ability to act normal in their marriage and have porn sex with their affair partners.


----------



## Robert22205

How many people are in your wife’s office?

How many women?

What is her job title that requires him to text or call her?

Have you guys read: ‘Not Just Friends’ by Dr Shirley Glass? 

At the very least, you should.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Robert22205 said:


> How many people are in your wife’s office?
> 
> How many women?
> 
> What is her job title that requires him to text or call her?
> 
> Have you guys read: ‘Not Just Friends’ by Dr Shirley Glass?
> 
> At the very least, you should.


All good questions. Also do you know any of her co-workers? Any socializing outside of work?


----------



## cocolo2019

*Talking about the guy a lot, caring about working out more, buying new clothes, used teeth whitening, use spray tanning and started wearing contacts. *

Woa OP, this is new. That I remember, you never said anything about working out more, buying new clothes, teeth whitening and spray tanning. These are huge red flags. At least it seems she likes OM or wants to get his attention.
What about the chocolate message from her friend? What was the tone of the message? That friend could be a toxic one or an enabler. 

You said she is not picking fight and sex life is normal. That is good. If she was an exit affair type of cheater, that means she has not had sex with him yet.
But, if she is the Cake-Eaters type, that's another league. Cake-Eaters have the ability to act normal in their marriage and have porn sex with their affair partners.

By the way administrators, can you delete my prior post?
It came up in another format.


----------



## TDSC60

The red flags are flying with her changes in behavior and improving how she looks when she goes to work. But you screwed up bringing all this up to her. All this is not PROOF, but it is cause for concern. If she is in an affair, all you did was alert her to be more secretive and careful. I know it is hard, but KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. 

The near confession about going to Starbucks enough to require reloading her account is suspicious. If it were an innocent act like going to pick up coffee for the office, it would not be something she should feel she needs to hide. On the other hand, why is she paying if she goes with OM? What man would allow a woman to pay? What boss would allow an employee to pay? The only thing I can think of is she texts him to ask if he is coming in...he says yes...she goes to Starbucks to have coffee and danish for him when he arrives.

My thoughts on all of this is that your wife may not be in an affair at the moment but it looks like she is chasing the OM. She wants him to notice her. Maybe she has been successful based on the convoluted process you say she goes through that ends in voice messaging and her scribbled notes. 

All you really have at the moment is a lot of things that could mean she is in an affair, or could mean that she is chasing OM but he is not returning her advances, or could be nothing. You really need more proof one way or another.

You have to ask yourself what you will do if; 
1. She is having an emotional affair. or 
2. She is having a physical affair. or
3. She is chasing OM because she wants him. or
4. It is something else that you and we have not thought about. or
5. It really is nothing (I think there is something going on but not sure what.)

Regardless, all this is causing you a lot of pain and she is not going to tell you anything. You should at least consult a PI to see what they can do for you. Ask them what they can do to help with the phone. You are currently in limbo and so far your investigations have just raised a lot of questions and not answers.


----------



## Chaparral

Check her underwear drawer. Does she have nice stuff there that you’ve never seen? Like others have said, red flags are flying. If your sex life is unchanged and she is cheating, it looks like a side affair that’s just for fun and not love.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Chaparral said:


> Check her underwear drawer. Does she have nice stuff there that you’ve never seen? Like others have said, red flags are flying. If your sex life is unchanged and she is cheating, it looks like a side affair that’s just for fun and not love.


Does she change when she gets home from work? Shower? Don't get caught doing this but on days you think he worked you can check worn panties for semen.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yes as soon as she gets home she changes and showers. But that's everyday.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Yes as soon as she gets home she changes and showers. But that's everyday.


Click that link in my previous post, order that test kit and start testing her panties. Don't get caught.


----------



## Music_Man

Hacker1234 said:


> Yes as soon as she gets home she changes and showers. But that's everyday.


If you're quick, this could be enough time to install a tracking app on that Android. Would also give you a few minutes to see if any new bread crumbs have been left.


----------



## Robert22205

From your posts IMO it's currently one sided (on her part) and is in the form of something like a student's crush on a teacher (in this case the Boss). For example: the volume & timing of texts/calls is not suspicious, their contact is limited to business hours, she’s not distancing herself or picking fights with you, and she is no longer focused on her grooming.

_The other thing, she doesn't feel distant, not picking fights or anything. Sex life is normal. Really everything feels really normal._

That's the problem with crossing into personal space/boundary with a coworker. Things are normal at first and the participants feel like they're in control (and it's harmless). However, it's a slippery slope that is unnecessarily placing your marriage at risk (and makes you feel unsafe from infidelity).

IMO, and maybe like most people that have never cheated, your wife is not looking for an affair and also believes she would never have an affair. Which makes it all the more difficult for you to convince her to stop.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah that is logical. At the moment I think I'll just keep paying attention to everything.


----------



## Gabriel

You are suspicious, and she knows you are suspicious. This is likely why she deletes stuff. She doesn't want you to get the wrong idea. But she likely doesn't realize doing this makes her look more suspicious.

Like I said earlier, neither of you trust each other, and that's a problem in and of itself.

My take, she's got a bit of a crush, but hasn't acted on it yet. And because it's a crush, she's hyper sensitive to your perception of their interactions. Hopefully it's a harmless crush - I mean many of us have had little ones along the way (if I was single, type of things). But these could get dangerous if unchecked or reciprocated. 

Just stay quietly vigilant. Perceived indifference will get her to let her guard down.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah looking at the texts, he does not appear to be reciprocating. None of his texts were deleted. By the way, she did get a drink this morning and was alone.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

*


Hacker1234 said:



Again, they are not texting late at night or weekends.

Click to expand...

*You think that's out of respect for YOU? It's not.

Of course they're not texting late at night or on the weekends - he's married and home with his wife and doesn't want to get in trouble. Do you think for one *second* your wife wouldn't be ALL OVER those texts if he suddenly started texting late at night or on the weekends? Of course she would!! Sadly, it's already been established that your wife has no respect for you or your marriage so if they're not texting at night, that's because HE doesn't want to get caught..

Secondly, because this guy is extremely thorough in making sure he doesn't get caught, I think that's why HIS texts are always so innocuous - because some men will *never* put anything in writing that could incriminate them. The fact that she DELETES some of her texts speaks volumes. And just because he's not texting inappropriate stuff to her doesn't mean he's not SAYING it to her face or when they're talking on the phone. His 'innocent' texts prove absolutely NOTHING.

As the other posters have said, you blew it confronting her too soon. All you did was give her a heads up that you're monitoring her phone and whatever else you found out that you told her about. You basically gave her a gun and asked her to shoot you in the foot. So now she knows she needs to work a little harder to make sure you don't find anything going forward. Don't say ANOTHER thing to her.


----------



## Robert22205

*Yeah looking at the texts, he does not appear to be reciprocating. *

What do her texts say (that he's ignoring)?

*None of his texts were deleted. By the way, she did get a drink this morning and was alone.*

How do you know she was alone? Was the Boss in the office today?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Robert22205 said:


> *Yeah looking at the texts, he does not appear to be reciprocating. *
> 
> What do her texts say (that he's ignoring)?
> 
> *None of his texts were deleted. By the way, she did get a drink this morning and was alone.*
> 
> How do you know she was alone? Was the Boss in the office today?


My bet is the ones he's not answering are the ones she's deleting.


----------



## Hacker1234

Or he did, remember right after that string of deleted texts. He calls her. She checks voice-mail 10 mins later.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker, I forgot to mention this. You said "Also I know they are talking about more personal stuff. One day I was saying, I want to do XYZ. She said well his Wife did XYZ and he hated it" 
This means it is very probable an emotional affair is going on. They are talking, or at least him, about personal stuff of his wife. Not only personal stuff, but things that have created some kind of controversy in his marriage. It is very probable he is fishing and, based on the red flags you mentioned, your wife is aware of it. Your radar needs to go up to another level.


----------



## Nucking Futs

cocolo2019 said:


> Hacker, I forgot to mention this. You said "Also I know they are talking about more personal stuff. One day I was saying, I want to do XYZ. She said well his Wife did XYZ and he hated it"
> This means it is very probable an emotional affair is going on. They are talking, or at least him, about personal stuff of his wife. Not only personal stuff, but things that have created some kind of controversy in his marriage. It is very probable he is fishing and, based on the red flags you mentioned, your wife is aware of it. Your radar needs to go up to another level.


Actually that would depend on what xyz was. If it's "paint the front door yellow" I wouldn't classify that as emotional affair territory, while if it's "straighten my pubic hair and grow it to my knees" that would be a different matter.

Yeah, I had trouble coming up with something for that second one, the change in sexes got me.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah it was a disagreement with something with the house. Its something my wife and I always talked about doing. Well the OM wife did it, and he was not a fan. My wife told me all the things he disliked about it.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah I feel like I am in some weird grey area. I think I sent warning shots when I confronted last month, it all died down. And now appears it is back, like some of you said might happen if I shutup. Now I guess I wait for a mistake to happen, and keep watching. Fun times.


----------



## BluesPower

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah I feel like I am in some weird grey area. I think I sent warning shots when I confronted last month, it all died down. And now appears it is back, like some of you said might happen if I shutup. Now I guess I wait for a mistake to happen, and keep watching. Fun times.


It may not hurt for you to get a PI and see what else you can find. 

Here is the deal, you have problems here. She is texting another guy, that is be bottom line. It is not cool at any level. 

You need to get to the bottom of this.


----------



## Robert22205

Do you know if the Boss is happily married or complains a lot about his wife?

I think being in a state of limbo is very difficult and often leads to confronting prematurely. 

Ideally you can find something concrete to spotlight inappropriate behavior/EA that she can't brush off (like a lie). 

Rather than just wait, I suggest you take the initiate by observing who she goes to coffee with this week. If the Boss is in the office this week (and she doesn't go to coffee with him), then I think you can relax (but still be alert).

Just knowing she's deleting texts makes you suspicious but isn't solid enough for confrontation.


----------



## Robert22205

Did you find out what the chocolate gift from the Boss was about?


----------



## Hacker1234

Boss was in today, she went to coffee alone. And yes the chocolate was for everyone in the office.


----------



## Robert22205

Good to hear. I hope she continues to go alone for the rest of the week.


----------



## Gabriel

Hacker1234 said:


> Boss was in today, she went to coffee alone. And yes the chocolate was for everyone in the office.


All good signs. IMHO, she's a little smitten with him, but nothing has "happened". 

Yet.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Do you have enough access to her phone to install an app without her knowing? Maybe run phonelab and recover the deleted texts or install one of the monitoring apps I linked earlier so you get real time copies of her messages.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yes I ran phone lab. It found no deleted texts.


----------



## Lostinthought61

have you thought of placing a VAR in her car or purse ?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Lostinthought61 said:


> have you thought of placing a VAR in her car or purse ?


Purse is asking to get caught. Phone lab found no deleted texts, I think you should consider installing a monitoring app and monitor her texting for a couple of weeks and see what she's deleting. If it's innocuous remove the app and move on. You had some early flags that could indicate a crush, but nothing since then has really panned out to be anything, to the point where the deleted messages are really the only things left. And if phone lab isn't finding them I'm not sure if they're actually there. 

Is she a prolific texter? Hundreds of texts per day?


----------



## Hacker1234

Nope she hardly ever texts, doesn't talk on the phone much either. Also I did check her heart rate monitor. I'd expect some racing heart rates during the day if something was happening. Only racing when with me haha.


----------



## Robert22205

Thats funny = thanks for the humor!


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Nope she hardly ever texts, doesn't talk on the phone much either. Also I did check her heart rate monitor. I'd expect some racing heart rates during the day if something was happening. Only racing when with me haha.


Ok, so the odds are the texts weren't overwritten, so they may not have existed in the first place. I'm not sure I'd even bother with the monitoring software at this point, it's not the kind of thing you want to get caught doing if it's not necessary. For that matter, are you sure she wasn't working out and dieting because she started gaining wait from her second breakfast?


----------



## Hacker1234

I called my cell provider and asked about it. Turns out there is a bug in the call logging. What happens is say you texted at 11:14. If the log shows 4 texts at 11:14, it can log one text multiple times. They all have to be the same time. If it was 11:14 11:15 11:16 11:17, and missing texts. For sure deleted. So I do have a plausible reason for this. The texts in question all had the same timestamp.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> I called my cell provider and asked about it. Turns out there is a bug in the call logging. What happens is say you texted at 11:14. If the log shows 4 texts at 11:14, it can log one text multiple times. They all have to be the same time. If it was 11:14 11:15 11:16 11:17, and missing texts. For sure deleted. So I do have a plausible reason for this. The texts in question all had the same timestamp.


Yeah. You've really got not much. Teeth whitening, dieting, working out, tanning. That's pretty much it. I think you need to ease way up here. Don't install spyware on her phone, don't waste any money on a PI. Go ahead and monitor the texting but keep that glitch in mind. 

I think now you're more likely to create a problem from nothing than to find an existing problem.


----------



## mickybill

Hacker1234 said:


> I called my cell provider and asked about it. Turns out there is a bug in the call logging. What happens is say you texted at 11:14. If the log shows 4 texts at 11:14, it can log one text multiple times. They all have to be the same time. If it was 11:14 11:15 11:16 11:17, and missing texts. For sure deleted. So I do have a plausible reason for this. The texts in question all had the same timestamp.


That's good news, right. I take back what I said about the big tech company not screwing up


----------



## Hacker1234

I found more evidence today. It's either a weird coincidence, or I'm not dealing with an EA, this is a PA. Today I was looking for something and I found a Victoria Secret gift card in her nightstand. It must have showed up yesterday, because I was in there on Monday and it wasn't there. Second thing I found, was a pair of torn panties in the trashcan in our bathroom. I could tell they were clean. Torn in the back where it connects to the elastic. 

The gift card appears not to be new, you can tell it was in a wallet or something. I called the number on it, and its never been used.

The panties must have been thrown out in the last 2 days. We didn't do laundry last night, so they are not from yesterday. 

This is all very strange. Could easily be explained away though. I can't bring it up.


----------



## m2r2

Hacker1234 said:


> Second thing I found, was a pair of torn panties in the trashcan in our bathroom. I could tell they were clean. Torn in the back where it connects to the elastic.


My wife does that as well. Every time she has torn or ripped panties she trows them in trash can. I am sure this isn't a first pair but you didn't pay attention before. I wouldn't worry about that. You need to come down and watch. You are all over


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah my thought was, that was too easy to find.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> I found more evidence today. It's either a weird coincidence, or I'm not dealing with an EA, this is a PA. Today I was looking for something and I found a Victoria Secret gift card in her nightstand. It must have showed up yesterday, because I was in there on Monday and it wasn't there. Second thing I found, was a pair of torn panties in the trashcan in our bathroom. I could tell they were clean. Torn in the back where it connects to the elastic.
> 
> The gift card appears not to be new, you can tell it was in a wallet or something. I called the number on it, and its never been used.
> 
> The panties must have been thrown out in the last 2 days. We didn't do laundry last night, so they are not from yesterday.
> 
> This is all very strange. Could easily be explained away though. I can't bring it up.


OP the red flag here are not the panties, is the Victoria Secret gift card. Has she been into sexy lingerie before?

Now, this is what you have to do. First, do not confront; you don't have feasible evidence. There's is a saying in the Bible that says "be wise (cunning) as serpent and innocent (easy) as dove". You got to be both of them.

2nd thing is, and I hope you did already, take a picture of that card, the number on it and the phone, and put it back where and exactly where you found it. That card could be your silver bullet in case something is going on. As a matter of fact, it was very wise of you to call in order to verify if the card was used. You will need that strategy in a future.

3rd: Verify in your wife's credit card statement if there is a purchase of a VS gift card, or if there is a receipt of the purchase. Also, you can pull out a Credit Bureau Statement and verify if there is a credit card that you are not aware of. They give one free statement yearly or you can use the Credit Karma application. I remember a infidelity case in another forum where a BH found his wife had a credit card he was not aware of. The cheating wife was using it for paying motels, lingerie, etc.

If you don't find anything in the statement or a receipt, there is a possibility it was a gift given to her from another person.

4th: Stay stealthy and verify within two or three days if the card was used. If it was, and she has not tell you anything, you have to verify every corner for a hidden sexy lingerie.

Also, does her personal hygiene have changed? Something like shaving private parts, etc.
And for the panties, verify if you notice any weird stain. If you want you can test it for semen. But honestly, I don't think the panties are red flags.

Remember, stealthy and cunning..


----------



## Gabriel

You should settle down. You are driving yourself nuts. I'd back off for 2-3 weeks at least, and relax during that time. You need a refresh. It's easy to get worked up and talk to people on an infidelity website and get all kinds of ideas parked in your head. I agree with a couple others - there isn't much here. While you do have some reason to have your antennae up - that's about all I'd do - this super sleuthing and reading something into all these behaviors is a bit overboard right now.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP, was the gift card hidden in her nightstand or visible over her nightstand?

If It was visible could be three things: 1) she made on purpose to see if you have any reaction. 2) It is something innocent (that she bought in order to use some sexy lingerie for you in a future). 3) Is not innocent and she is naive.


----------



## ABHale

Like I said f**k f**k games.

Who gave her the card if not you? 

Was it left over from her bridal shower and just never used?

Could the number on the back tell you when it was purchased and by who?


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah I know I am going overboard, I will relax.

By the way the card was not hidden, it was the first thing I saw when I opened it up. No idea where it came from, could be very old. Just weird it was there. I don't think we have been in that store for years.


----------



## Gabriel

And besides....if a man wanted to buy your wife lingerie, he'd pick it out himself, not give her a card for her to go buy it.

Usually gift cards are gifts from other people - in this case, likely a girlfriend or female relative. Or perhaps someone else was given the card and doesn't want it - so they asked if your wife wanted it.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah I know I am going overboard, I will relax.
> 
> By the way the card was not hidden, it was the first thing I saw when I opened it up. No idea where it came from, could be very old. Just weird it was there. I don't think we have been in that store for years.


You said you called and it's never been used, how much is on it?


----------



## Hacker1234

50 bucks.


----------



## Music_Man

Hacker1234 said:


> 50 bucks.


Sounds like a gift from a girlfriend or something. As others have said, most men would pick out and buy that sort of thing themselves.


----------



## cocolo2019

Can it be possible to verify when the card was activated? That way you can verify if there something in the credit or debit card statements, and you can associate the activation date with the period you began to have a gut feeling.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah I know I am going overboard, I will relax.
> 
> By the way the card was not hidden, it was the first thing I saw when I opened it up. No idea where it came from, could be very old. Just weird it was there. I don't think we have been in that store for years.



My W sometimes will tear panties on the pull up motion. Usually the elastic. She will toss them in the trash. Heck, she has one pair holding on by a thread...I kid you not. She keeps them and wears them to bed sometimes. I can't figure it out. Anyway, the gift card, my W gets them and they will sit for YEARS sometimes. Your W probably got it as a gift a long the way(from girlfriend) and never used it. 

All I can suggest is slow down before you find yourself chasing dead ends and driving yourself crazy over nothing your W is perceived to be doing.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> 50 bucks.


In my years of reading heart wrenching stories of infidelity on this site it was by and large the woman who would buy the lingerie. For a OM to hand a gift card is, well, tacky as the infidelity in itself. I would think this is a gift card your W has is from a GF.


----------



## lucy999

VS is always running some sort of promo--buy xyz and get a gift card. Or, buy xyz and get a tote. You get the idea.That could explain the new torn panties AND the old gift card--she dug up the gift card because she ruined a pair of brand new panties so she's going to use her card to get new ones.


----------



## Hacker1234

I know I am going hyper active. But I have been relaxing and shutting up.

Interesting thing happened today. Probably nothing but just normal married life. But I wanted to comment on it because I found it interesting.

Today my Wife went to a coworkers house to work on a project for a couple hours. Before she went, everything was normal. But after she got home, she was acting very snippy and was just overall just being mean. We ended up getting into a huge fight. She is acting very distant and weird. This is not normal.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> I know I am going hyper active. But I have been relaxing and shutting up.
> 
> Interesting thing happened today. Probably nothing but just normal married life. But I wanted to comment on it because I found it interesting.
> 
> Today my Wife went to a coworkers house to work on a project for a couple hours. Before she went, everything was normal. But after she got home, she was acting very snippy and was just overall just being mean. We ended up getting into a huge fight. She is acting very distant and weird. This is not normal.


1) Was that co-worker the same one who sent the chocolate picture?
2) Did you confirm (using a Google location) she was there?
3) Have you noticed any weird traffic on the phone statement before, during and after her visit to the co-worker's house? (Text, call, etc)


----------



## Hacker1234

1. No this is a different co-worker
2. Yes this was confirmed, she was there
3. They were texting before, nothing during or after


----------



## manfromlamancha

Was this coworker male or female ?


----------



## Hacker1234

female.


----------



## cocolo2019

Is it pretty normal she does that activity? You know, visiting her co-worker, etc.

Have she ever act like that before?

You said they were texting, I suppose you already know what they were texting, because if something was off you would already mentioned.

Note;OP I have mentioned before; my apologies for my syntax in my writing. English is my second language. Sometimes I wonder if I what I write is correct.


----------



## Tobyboy

She’s upset you’re not playing her adolescent games. She’ll ramp up the manipulation a notch here pretty soon. More likely she’ll disappear for a few hours without telling you where she’s going.


----------



## MattMatt

It is possible she mentioned your fears to her boss and her bosses reaction made her realise that her boss really HAD been playing her like a fish, which would take the gilt off the gingerbread re her job.


----------



## MattMatt

The snippy attitude might be because it is the co-worker who is having the affair with the boss, having won the "pick me, boss!" competition between the two of them.

It's also possible that the boss has off site meetings with your wife because they are talking about co-workers or work related problems he does not want the others to know about.

Can't recall if this was on TAM or not. But I remember a case where the spouse thought there was an affair, but the red flags were because spouse and some co-workers were defrauding the company they worked for. Hence deleted texts, being in places and lying about it, absences that had no explanation, etc.


----------



## TDSC60

So your wife went to a female co-worker's house.
But anyone else could have been there as well.
She could have easily met an OM there especially if the female co-worker supported your wife in an affair.


----------



## cocolo2019

TDSC60 said:


> So your wife went to a female co-worker's house.
> But anyone else could have been there as well.
> She could have easily met an OM there especially if the female co-worker supported your wife in an affair.


I was thinking about that. But I discarded because OP probably would have get a hint of the rendezvous in the texts combo, and he would have mentioned here.


----------



## dreamer2017

Your wife is always two steps ahead of you. There were a lot of texting between the two before she left on an emergency visit to her female co-worker's house. That can be a red flag. I would have followed her.


----------



## Robert22205

Here's a suggestion:

Ask what specific 'project' they were working on or what happened because: 

she was in a great mood when she left last night - and miserable when she returned.

And state that she owes you an explanation because she came home and transferred her anger (over whatever happened) onto you.


----------



## Robert22205

BTW: what did you fight about (something real or something minor/or contrived)?


----------



## G.J.

Hacker if you need meaningful comments a lot more information needs to be added when you ask

Don't confront, stay watchful


----------



## ABHale

Hacker1234 said:


> I know I am going hyper active. But I have been relaxing and shutting up.
> 
> Interesting thing happened today. Probably nothing but just normal married life. But I wanted to comment on it because I found it interesting.
> 
> Today my Wife went to a coworkers house to work on a project for a couple hours. Before she went, everything was normal. But after she got home, she was acting very snippy and was just overall just being mean. We ended up getting into a huge fight. She is acting very distant and weird. This is not normal.


Cheaters do this all the time. They spend time with the affair partner and become distant.


----------



## ABHale

Maybe it isn’t just one person or one gender.


----------



## jlg07

Hacker1234 said:


> I know I am going hyper active. But I have been relaxing and shutting up.
> 
> Interesting thing happened today. Probably nothing but just normal married life. But I wanted to comment on it because I found it interesting.
> 
> Today my Wife went to a coworkers house to work on a project for a couple hours. Before she went, everything was normal. But after she got home, she was acting very snippy and was just overall just being mean. We ended up getting into a huge fight. She is acting very distant and weird. This is not normal.


So, this female co-worker could be a toxic person to your marriage. They may have been discussing things and she may be filling your wife's head with "he's not good enough for you" "you SHOULD have that affair because HE's awful" type of stuff. You just never know.
Do YOU know this co-worker? Do you think she would act like that?


----------



## Hacker1234

I don't know the person. But today is fine. We talked about yesterday for a bit. Just stressed out. All is good now.


----------



## Kamstel2

Hacker, are you in USA?

why is she working on a work project on the July 4th weekend? Isn’t that like saying you are going up go work on a project with someone on Christmas????

Of all the things you’ve mentioned, this one is giving off the most amount of odor!!!! It just doesn’t smell right!


----------



## Hacker1234

It was the day before, it was something she promised she would help with a couple weeks ago. They did work on it, and when she got home she had to finish it up.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

Hacker1234 said:


> Hey Everyone, thanks for the advice.
> 
> I am trying to get my head around this. I think most likely it is nothing, worse case at the moment she may like the guy.
> 
> He has been the boss a couple months now, she did ask for a raise because it has been 2 years since she got one.


She talks him up === she likes him. That's a given.

She gets a raise - likely because they work well together, he knows it, she knows it; she works harder because she knows she's getting attention, and is better to work with, so he likes that recognises it and wants to help her and her career.

The only question is: "Do they have the discipline and outside commitments in themselves to go no further."

Her gaslight starter answer of "but he has kids" is both honest but dismissive at the same time. She does like him, but the question is would she act on the like?
If you're caught playing detective, it will greatly cost your relationship; as it shows complete lack of trust. But you knew that when you asked here.
The real questionfor you is: "What are you going to do if you find it is going towards affair/break up?" The final response is entirely up to you - the range is often larger than you think - but being forewarned and ready for an answer you don't like often makes all the difference. So don't start playing private **** until you've confronted yourself and answered that question for yourself, and got the jealousy under control, because jealousy never helps. You might find that instead of snoop, a few extra business lunches, bit of positive career help, then get together family dinners, pop-in lunch visits to their successful office, etc will warn her that you're suspicious but subtle... If they are crossing your boundaries, scaring him off with attention might work a little better (after all, no-one likes an office scandal on their resume)


----------



## Gabriel

Dude, are you just toying with everyone here, just to try to get everyone riled up over every single thing your wife does?

Pattern: dive bomb the group with some little thing "this might be a red flag, or maybe it's nothing". Sit back and wait for everyone's reaction. Come back, "never mind, it was nothing".

How about live your life for awhile?


----------



## mickybill

Kamstel2 said:


> Hacker, are you in USA?
> 
> why is she working on a work project on the July 4th weekend? Isn’t that like saying you are going up go work on a project with someone on Christmas????
> 
> Of all the things you’ve mentioned, this one is giving off the most amount of odor!!!! It just doesn’t smell right!


These days when people feel they are on call 24/7 and all work is on the laptop, you don't need to go into the factory and put in a couple hours in the shop. Work can be done at home, I have done it and seen others put a few hours of work in on holidays. Not as big of a flag as you may think. Lines are blurred...


----------



## cocolo2019

OP every situation is different. For what I read in this forum and others, I can come to the conclusion that it is not easy. Do not discourage to post if you see any odd situation. I am gladly to help and I know others from this forum as well.


----------



## The Middleman

Hacker1234 said:


> I found more evidence today. It's either a weird coincidence, or I'm not dealing with an EA, this is a PA. Today I was looking for something and I found a Victoria Secret gift card in her nightstand. It must have showed up yesterday, because I was in there on Monday and it wasn't there.
> ——
> This is all very strange. Could easily be explained away though. I can't bring it up.


Take the gift card out of the Night Stand drawer, and hide it somewhere. Then wait for a reaction. You’ll get an answer. I’m pretty sure of it.


----------



## Hacker1234

We had a great weekend. Everything is still normal. 

Sorry if it feels like I am trolling, I guess I have some anxiety. 

Some good news to report. She had to text the OM today, something about work. She was completely transparent about all of it and she texted him right in front of me. I later checked the logs, and yup the logs don't match. Shows multiple texts out when I clearly saw her do one. This makes me feel a lot better.


----------



## FoolishOne

Multiple texts out at the same time? Or throughout the day? They should be time stamped right? I don't mean to feed any paranoia, but she could have just deleted the other texts before showing you..... unless your sure those extra texts were time stamped for when you were looking at her screen... You really have proof of crap.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yes the time stamps were all the sametime. In a previous post I talked about how I called my cell provider about it. Sometimes the text logs show multiple texts sent, when only one was sent.


----------



## Beach123

Did you ask her why her attitude about her job changed?

the lack of communication - honest communication in your marriage is really sad. Start asking her questions!


----------



## Gabriel

Glad for the good news.


----------



## Robert22205

Hacker1234 ... there's nothing wrong with being alert while still being trusting...especially given her initial interest in the boss (and the box of chocolates). Plus you still need to occasionally watch for a Starbuck companion (or any new activity). Fortunately, the lack of texting is evidence that it's still one sided (on her part). More so if they never go to Starbucks or lunch.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Robert22205 said:


> Hacker1234 ... there's nothing wrong with being alert while still being trusting...especially given her initial interest in the boss (and the box of chocolates). Plus you still need to occasionally watch for a Starbuck companion (or any new activity). Fortunately, the lack of texting is evidence that it's still one sided (on her part). More so if they never go to Starbucks or lunch.


Don't forget, the boss gave chocolates to everyone in the office, not just her.


----------



## Hacker1234

So we know we found a bug with the logging. But would you think this is weird. There was a little convo today. Text log shows 2 texts out, but again same time stamp, but only one text on the phone. Then 4 messages come in, 4 have matching timestamps and one was does not. Text logs show 5 messages in. Seems too strange to keep on happening, and this is the first time one of his texts are gone.


----------



## Hacker1234

Also when I got home today she was working on an arts project. She said she was finishing up a project from her coworker. But I looked at it when she was away, it actually looks like something I asked her to make for me months ago. Looks like I have a neat gift in the works.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> So we know we found a bug with the logging. But would you think this is weird. There was a little convo today. Text log shows 2 texts out, but again same time stamp, but only one text on the phone. Then 4 messages come in, 4 have matching timestamps and one was does not. Text logs show 5 messages in. Seems too strange to keep on happening, and this is the first time one of his texts are gone.


Well, it would be a good time to use your phonelab or dr. Phone that you got.


----------



## Robert22205

Ouch....so she went over to the co-worker's house to work on a gift for you? Doesn't sound like someone in an affair. Lay low but be observant for any personal contact with the Boss.

However, I think you should investigate the text bug. Who is your cell phone service provider? What make and model phone does she use.


----------



## Hacker1234

Actually no, she went there to work on a project with her for their stuff. But yesterday she said she was finishing it up, but it looks like she was working on something for me.


----------



## BHB4408

Hacker1234 said:


> I have a weird feeling something isn't right, but maybe it is nothing.
> Wife and I have been married close to 20 years. We have 3 kids and we both have successful careers. Our marriage is good, no real problems other than the regular issues in life we all face. Sometimes I do forget to take out the trash. Sex life has zero issues and very regular. I would say we have it pretty good.
> 
> However over the past couple months something has been bugging me. The owner of the business she works at, she talks about him a lot. She will come home and say, he said this or did that. She talks him up all the time. Recently she got a raise out of nowhere, turns out it she was the only one.
> 
> I have looked at her phone, they do text but it is only work related stuff. All harmless. They are not friends on Facebook. There is nothing out of the ordinary in her activities.
> 
> Last night, she brought him up again. And I made a snarky reply like oh your boy friend did that. She laughed.
> 
> Later that night, I am in the yard doing some work. I must have struck a nerve, because she brought up what I said. I let her know that her talking about him all the time is bugging me. Then she said oh don't worry he is married with kids. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.
> 
> Then later we sat in bed for a while and chatted about stuff. We did have sex, which I did find interesting. Because normally she has an issue if we do it on consecutive days. We had done it the night before.
> 
> So I don't know. Maybe it is nothing, maybe she likes the guy or something. At this point I know there is nothing physical.
> 
> What are your thoughts.


Sorry to hear about your concern. I just want to tell you that I had the same concern. I fought it for about 8 months, and couldn't stand the thoughts anymore. 24 years and she had never lied to me. She had done nothing alarming, but I just had this feeling something wasn't right. I began to research to put my mind at ease, and found out she was cheating. After I knew what was going on, all of the details came to light. I thought back about the times I felt uncomfortable, and they matched exactly with the truth. I wish you the best, but I encourage you to keep quiet, but research to find the truth. Whatever the truth is, it will be better than the feelings of the unknown you're going through now. My opinion. Good luck.


----------



## Tobyboy

Hacker1234 said:


> Actually no, she went there to work on a project with her for their stuff. But yesterday she said she was finishing it up, but it looks like she was working on something for me.


Come on Man! You really think it’s for you? 
I think that she only wanted you to think that it’s for you!
She’s still playing games me thinks! 
It’s for her Boss!


----------



## SunCMars

BHB4408 said:


> Sorry to hear about your concern. I just want to tell you that I had the same concern. I fought it for about 8 months, and couldn't stand the thoughts anymore. 24 years and she had never lied to me. She had done nothing alarming, but I just had this feeling something wasn't right. I began to research to put my mind at ease, and found out she was cheating. After I knew what was going on, all of the details came to light. I thought back about the times I felt uncomfortable, and they matched exactly with the truth. I wish you the best, but I encourage you to keep quiet, but research to find the truth. Whatever the truth is, it will be better than the feelings of the unknown you're going through now. My opinion. Good luck.


Threadjack.
Can you please start a new thread on your present/past situation?

Can you fill us in (up your date) with your Missus' Infidelity.

Some background-
You had a stroke (a blood clot) that took you to.... near death.
It badly damaged your heart.
It took you out of action (one would suppose). The damage culled back your sex life.

And, in the interim, your wife found herself a lover, a lover boy at the gym.
Or, maybe a (go-to) man if you sadly expired.

Are you still married?
Did the truth ever come out, with it slithering past her lying tongue?

I get it.

She was a good wife in every respect....except sex.
Later, fidelity was added to the exception category.
She cheated.

What hurts, was her low desire throughout the marriage, especially prior to catching her cheating. She was not really LD, low desire, just that way with you.

Or, so it seems.


_The Typist-_

Please update us on TAM.


----------



## sokillme

If you haven't already I think you should ask her point blank if she is cheating. What do you have to lose. You got no information really. Sounds like if she did she covered her tracks.

Just stirring it up at this point will probably bring some stuff to light.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yes I did that a month ago. I laid it all out.

I think the problem I am running into, if something is going on I caught it right at the very start. It does appear to me, that I may have beat this by catching it in the early stages. Before it at actually went anywhere.


----------



## BluesPower

Hacker1234 said:


> Yes I did that a month ago. I laid it all out.
> 
> I think the problem I am running into, if something is going on I caught it right at the very start. It does appear to me, that I may have beat this by catching it in the early stages. Before it at actually went anywhere.


Brother, you are bending yourself into a pretzel t0 tell everyone that "I have done all I can do"... 

Sorry man, your guts says she is, the OVERWHWLMING odds are that she is cheating. You want a smoking gun, make her take a poly. Or better yet, file for divorce. Serve her papers. And move on with your life. 

She is a liar, and we all know it. You know something is going on.

Keep your mouth shut, hire a PI when things settle down or just file for divorce.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Hacker1234 said:


> I have a weird feeling something isn't right, but maybe it is nothing.
> Wife and I have been married close to 20 years. We have 3 kids and we both have successful careers. Our marriage is good, no real problems other than the regular issues in life we all face. Sometimes I do forget to take out the trash. Sex life has zero issues and very regular. I would say we have it pretty good.
> 
> However over the past couple months something has been bugging me. The owner of the business she works at, she talks about him a lot. She will come home and say, he said this or did that. She talks him up all the time. Recently she got a raise out of nowhere, turns out it she was the only one.
> 
> I have looked at her phone, they do text but it is only work related stuff. All harmless. They are not friends on Facebook. There is nothing out of the ordinary in her activities.
> 
> Last night, she brought him up again. And I made a snarky reply like oh your boy friend did that. She laughed.
> 
> Later that night, I am in the yard doing some work. I must have struck a nerve, because she brought up what I said. I let her know that her talking about him all the time is bugging me. Then she said oh don't worry he is married with kids. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.
> 
> Then later we sat in bed for a while and chatted about stuff. We did have sex, which I did find interesting. Because normally she has an issue if we do it on consecutive days. We had done it the night before.
> 
> So I don't know. Maybe it is nothing, maybe she likes the guy or something. At this point I know there is nothing physical.
> 
> What are your thoughts.


You've seen the texts and they're all business. Do you think she's so dumb that if she was having an affair at work she would be talking to you about the guy all the time? She just has a good relationship with her boss which is great. People get close at work sometimes but that doesn't mean they have affairs. She's just talking about work because that's half of her life. Say anything to make her compromised her status with her boss and hurt her career, and then you'll know what it's like to have a marital problem. she's into working there and doing a good job so she got a raise and she gets along with the boss. I'm sure she'll stop telling you about it now.

My advice is stop forgetting to take out the trash and put your insecurity on the back burner.


----------



## BluesPower

DownByTheRiver said:


> You've seen the texts and they're all business. Do you think she's so dumb that if she was having an affair at work she would be talking to you about the guy all the time? She just has a good relationship with her boss which is great. People get close at work sometimes but that doesn't mean they have affairs. She's just talking about work because that's half of her life. Say anything to make her compromised her status with her boss and hurt her career, and then you'll know what it's like to have a marital problem. she's into working there and doing a good job so she got a raise and she gets along with the boss. I'm sure she'll stop telling you about it now.
> 
> My advice is stop forgetting to take out the trash and put your insecurity on the back burner.


This is exactly what they do. They don't even realize that they are doing it. 

He has seen what she wants him to see. 

Do you have any experience in dealing with infidelity, at all? 

This is not how it works...


----------



## nekonamida

So where did that Victoria's Secret gift card come from? Were you able to tell when it was bought over the phone?

I'm thinking your focus on the phone is a red herring. You have a reasonable explanation from the inconsistency in texts. I really think you should leave it alone and stop driving yourself crazy over it. I'm also questioning whether you have the correct OM. The other issue is that you have more concerning evidence on your hands like the VS gift card and reassuring yourself about the phone log and what her and her boss are talking about is doing nothing to solve the gift card mystery and what ever happened at the friend's house. It's giving you a false sense of security to check and re-check an avenue of investigation that isn't panning out for you when you have other leads to follow. Could you find out more about this friend she went to see?

When did you start feeling like she might be cheating on you? What was your very first inclination that something was up? Have you been cheated on before or have you suspected her or previous partners of cheating in the past?


----------



## cocolo2019

I am in the center here. OP, stay in alert and stealthy, because if you demand polygraph and nothing is going on, it will cost your marriage. You don't still really have a feasible evidence. 
My recommendation is keep doing your PI work, eyes open and mouth shut. Verify on a weekly basis if the gift card was used and try to get a VAR and hide it where she usually talk. Then, try to do something where you get out of the house for several hours (like shopping, etc) to see if you can catch something from the VAR. Remember that they are apps like Facebook, WhatsApp, Viber, Telegram, etc where you can talk and is not reflected in the phone bill. As a matter of fact, verify is those aforementioned apps are in her phone, especially Telegram. Telegram is a well known app used by cheaters, because it has an option for a hidden chat.


----------



## Gabriel

BluesPower said:


> Brother, you are bending yourself into a pretzel t0 tell everyone that "I have done all I can do"...
> 
> Sorry man, your guts says she is, the OVERWHWLMING odds are that she is cheating. You want a smoking gun, make her take a poly. Or better yet, file for divorce. Serve her papers. And move on with your life.
> 
> She is a liar, and we all know it. You know something is going on.
> 
> Keep your mouth shut, hire a PI when things settle down or just file for divorce.


Totally disagree with you this time. Unless you are being sarcastic here.

He has found nothing. He needs to stop and lay low for at least a week if not longer, so in the off chance she is up to no good, she can relax and let her guard down. Then jump back into sleuth mode.

Wait, he's done that already. And still found nothing. 

Maybe do it again, only wait 2 weeks this time.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah I think I am doing ok, I have read a lot of the stories on here. And I have seen a lot of, if I only did XYZ when I first started noticing things. Well I did the XYZ. And all the red flag went to a stop. However the weird texting thing, could be something or nothing. The logs are very unreliable, not just their texts but overall. Maybe I am one of those unfortunate but fortunate cases where I caught it so early I was able to smash it early on. I am not going to rugsweep, im still keeping shut with eyes open.


----------



## Hacker1234

The one thing that really bugs me though, is the note I found in her purse that says, have an accomplice, that she scribbled out. It is still there. And looking closer at it, she folded it into a fortune paper teller. That game we all played as kids to predict our future.

I really want to take it and write on it. For What? Where she can find it.


----------



## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> I really want to take it and write on it. For What? Where she can find it.


Nope OP. Don't do that. You will show your card and she will know you are snooping and on to her. Better take a picture of the note content and the note on her purse and leaving that way. That way you have a proof of a possible evidence without leaving a trace of your investigation.
It could be related to other thing. But the issue here is if you do that and f nothing is going on, you will be accused of paranoid and if something is going on, everything will go underground. It is a no win situation for you.


----------



## Hacker1234

What the hell is the meaning of that then, it is really ticking me off. Also on top of that, my wife was talking about the OM today. I guess they are moving things around the office, and going forward my Wife and him will share an office. I feel really really uncomfortable about it. I cannot not stand it anymore.


----------



## cocolo2019

Snooping doesn't mean that you cannot share to her that you feel uncomfortable about that move. You can share your feelings without blowing away your (PI) card. You will be pictured a little jealous though. Did you ask her why that sudden move? Is it imperative that she share the same office with her boss?
It Is weird, because of this pandemic times a lot of people are working remotely and there are available spaces in work premises.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Was she in her own office before? In shared office space with multiple people? Have you been there? Is it the type of place where you can drop in, walk up to her desk unannounced, and take her to lunch, or is it secure?


----------



## Music_Man

Nucking Futs said:


> Was she in her own office before? In shared office space with multiple people? Have you been there? Is it the type of place where you can drop in, walk up to her desk unannounced, and take her to lunch, or is it secure?


Good questions. I would need to see this layout for myself.


----------



## Robert22205

Who does she normally go to lunch with? Can you observe who she goes to lunch with? If she starts going to lunch with her Boss, then that's a red flag.


----------



## Hacker1234

Typically I or she makes her lunch in the morning and brings it in. Sometimes I do stop by and bring her lunch. I work from home, so that is very easy for me.

As far as the shared office goes, it is open to the outside, if I stopped by for lunch I could see right in. She used to share it with her old boss.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Typically I or she makes her lunch in the morning and brings it in. Sometimes I do stop by and bring her lunch. I work from home, so that is very easy for me.
> 
> As far as the shared office goes, it is open to the outside, if I stopped by for lunch I could see right in. She used to share it with her old boss.


So let me get this straight. She used to share an office with her old boss, but it's unusual that she's going to be sharing an office with her new boss? An office that is open to the outside, that if you were to stop by you could see right in? Are there other employees there that can see right in? If they're talking in there, can other employees over hear?


----------



## Hacker1234

Yes all that is true. I think I need to just relax.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Yes all that is true. I think I need to just relax.


Yep. I think you're well on your way to driving yourself crazy and damaging your marriage. A lot of what you're finding suspicious is at first glance bad, but when we get the details ends up being nothing. 

So serious question and not meant to be insulting. Is she smart enough to stay this far ahead of you, with us whispering to you in the background, if she is cheating? And is she the type of person who would not only cheat, but would play games like this with you already suspecting she's cheating?


----------



## Hacker1234

I am not sure, part of me thinks she is trying to get caught. For example that little paper fortune thing I can't figure out. If I was cheating I would have burned that. And the deleted text on purpose.

But I agree I am driving myself crazy.

It is just all strange, it appears that most here think at worst case she liked him. Possibly one sided. But looks like it all stopped. But I am dwelling on the why.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> I am not sure, part of me thinks she is trying to get caught. For example that little paper fortune thing I can't figure out. If I was cheating I would have burned that. And the deleted text on purpose.
> 
> But I agree I am driving myself crazy.
> 
> It is just all strange, it appears that most here think at worst case she liked him. Possibly one sided. But looks like it all stopped. But I am dwelling on the why.


You should get a book called "Not Just Friends" and give a read. It will explain a lot.


----------



## Music_Man

In my opinion, you may well have sort of caught something before it started, which is a good thing- IF she's able to recognize that and takes the appropriate steps with boundaries and transparency and so forth. 

The problem is that if she had a bit of a crush on this guy, having them in close proximity- even open for all to see and hear- can be dangerous. Those feelings, if unchecked, can creep right back in. Especially if he proves to be a standup guy and shows good work ethic and all. Those traits can be more attractive, to many women, than some flirty sleaze ball. 

I would relax a bit. As others have said, once we see the context of things they seem very benign and easily explained. 

But DO keep an eye on any developments (her talking about him more, texting him, changes in appearance, etc).

Take what I said to heart about being in the same office. Emotional feelings (if they exist), plus physical proximity, can equal serious problems if your wife has poor boundaries.


----------



## Gabriel

This office move is probably a good excuse for you to re-express, directly, not off-handedly, that bad things are gonna happen if he tries anything. Piss on your tree a little bit - wives love that.

This communication should not have any trace of fear or worry. It's a direct threat to him. Gentle, but firm. Then move on. 

You'll probably have sex that night.


----------



## Cynthia

Hacker1234 said:


> I am not sure, part of me thinks she is trying to get caught. For example that little paper fortune thing I can't figure out. If I was cheating I would have burned that. And the deleted text on purpose.
> 
> But I agree I am driving myself crazy.
> 
> It is just all strange, it appears that most here think at worst case she liked him. Possibly one sided. But looks like it all stopped. But I am dwelling on the why.


You have been able to adequately explain every concern that you have. Is it possible that your wife is cheating? Yes. It is also possible that she is planning a trip to the Ukraine. Both possibilities have about the same likelihood of being true. Personally, I think you should apply all the energy you have been putting into figuring out if your wife is cheating back into your marriage. This isn't healthy for your marriage.
I think you are a bit jealous. The paranoia you are experiencing is very likely jealousy related. This is a man who you view as being more worthy of your wife's attention and affection than you are. My advice is to go after that pay increase and plan a romantic vacation for when this whole virus situation is under control. In the meantime, seek out ways for the two of you to improve your relationship where you both know for sure that you have each other's backs.


----------



## Chaparral

If the office can be seen from the outside, I would see if I could observe them from a distance and see how they behave with each other.
Has anything changed in your relationship with her in the past year?
Has anything changed in her appearance or activities?


----------



## Hacker1234

I have been relaxing, and have put this on the back burner a little bit. We had an awesome weekend together, everything looks good.

I did notice something interesting. She seems to be responding to my increased attention and dating her that was recommended. I have noticed that overall she seems a lot happier about everything. And the sex life has increased a bit. It was never bad before all of this, but I have noticed a difference that is for sure. I am not getting "I'm not in the mood" at all.

I guess we will see where this leads us.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> I have been relaxing, and have put this on the back burner a little bit. We had an awesome weekend together, everything looks good.
> 
> I did notice something interesting. She seems to be responding to my increased attention and dating her that was recommended. I have noticed that overall she seems a lot happier about everything. And the sex life has increased a bit. It was never bad before all of this, but I have noticed a difference that is for sure. I am not getting "I'm not in the mood" at all.
> 
> I guess we will see where this leads us.


Always keep "dating" your W. When you do the results are as you describe above.


----------



## Tobyboy

Hacker1234 said:


> I have been relaxing, and have put this on the back burner a little bit. We had an awesome weekend together, everything looks good.
> 
> I did notice something interesting. She seems to be responding to my increased attention and dating her that was recommended. I have noticed that overall she seems a lot happier about everything. And the sex life has increased a bit. It was never bad before all of this, but I have noticed a difference that is for sure. I am not getting "I'm not in the mood" at all.
> 
> I guess we will see where this leads us.


The thing is, she’s learning that all the “mind games” she’s been playing with you pays dividends. Soon she’ll be using those learned traits on all facets of her life to get what she wants....affirmation. 
You can give her all the attention in world and it still wouldn’t compare to just a wink or smile of some stranger!


----------



## ah_sorandy

Robert22205 said:


> Who does she normally go to lunch with? Can you observe who she goes to lunch with? If she starts going to lunch with her Boss, then that's a red flag.


Interesting take!

Many years ago, when I had an IT team reporting to me, I had this one middle-aged lady always asking me out for lunch. We went alone a few times.

At that time, I thought it was because we both really liked the restaurant we went to. Now, I think her attraction was for me, the boss! I never acted on that because I was shy and oblivious.

Well fast forward about 15 years and I ran into her at the liquor store. She pretended not to know me, although her husband knew exactly who I was, and that I was her former boss. Interesting, maybe he saw, and remembered, the red flag. LOL


----------



## Hacker1234

That is a great story.


----------



## bandit.45

Hacker I think what you have...or had... was a questionable perchance of a possible maybe. No hard evidence, just a lot of circumstantial data that fell together in a way that put up flags. If there was an affair, I think it was in its embryonic stage. It's possible your wife may have had a crush on her boss. Your inquiries snapped her back into reality and she stopped her daydreaming and focused back to being your wife... a wife with a coffee addiction. I'm a Starbucks fan too... much to my shame (leftist bastards). But I digress. Keep being the best most loving husband you can be, and just be vigilant. Report back if she tries to have you whacked by the mob.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah it was all interesting. Affair or not, it was a huge wake up call. I was able to find where I was dropping the ball and cleaned that up. At the moment it looks like it worked. Weird thing is during this experience I did lose a bunch of weight I have been wanting to lose. The stress pretty much stopped me from eating. I am looking much trimmer now, and fit into clothes I have not worn in 10 years. She did notice that lol. So I guess affair fake or not did have some positives lol.

Still can't rugsweep this though. I am still eyes open mouth shut. Except for the eating part, I should probably start doing that again.

But right now, I am going to keep up being a good husband. Oh another thing I learned, pissing on your tree. Damn that works.


----------



## Gabriel

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah it was all interesting. Affair or not, it was a huge wake up call. I was able to find where I was dropping the ball and cleaned that up. At the moment it looks like it worked. Weird thing is during this experience I did lose a bunch of weight I have been wanting to lose. The stress pretty much stopped me from eating. I am looking much trimmer now, and fit into clothes I have not worn in 10 years. She did notice that lol. So I guess affair fake or not did have some positives lol.
> 
> Still can't rugsweep this though. I am still eyes open mouth shut. Except for the eating part, I should probably start doing that again.
> 
> But right now, I am going to keep up being a good husband. Oh another thing I learned, pissing on your tree. Damn that works.


Good job man. Really.

Yes, pissing on your tree works. Just as long as you aren't a total neanderthal about it. Firm but measured.

Think about it, if your wife saw a threat and told some woman she better watch how she approaches you - you'd be flattered, right?


----------



## Music_Man

@Hacker1234 

I think you've dodged a bullet, and kudos to you for listening to your gut in the early stages, and working to stamp something out before it got started. 

As myself and others have mentioned, you both should read the book Not Just Friends. It's been a game-changer and is a real eye opener for most folks.

Continue to guard your marriage, date your wife, and always- listen to your gut if something ever seems amiss.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah it was all interesting. Affair or not, it was a huge wake up call. I was able to find where I was dropping the ball and cleaned that up. At the moment it looks like it worked. Weird thing is during this experience I did lose a bunch of weight I have been wanting to lose. The stress pretty much stopped me from eating. I am looking much trimmer now, and fit into clothes I have not worn in 10 years. She did notice that lol. So I guess affair fake or not did have some positives lol.
> 
> Still can't rugsweep this though. I am still eyes open mouth shut. Except for the eating part, I should probably start doing that again.
> 
> But right now, I am going to keep up being a good husband. Oh another thing I learned, pissing on your tree. Damn that works.


 Definitely a wake up call. I had mine. The phone was ringing off the hook for 20 years. I never answered until my W said she was out if I don't get my act together. I did. Totally different world now!!!


----------



## bandit.45

The two of you should also read that Five Love Languages book. I've heard it helps couples a lot.


----------



## Hacker1234

We have, we know what each of us are.


----------



## ABHale

The only thing I will disagree on is this. You “dropping the ball” is no excuse for what your wife has done.

Nothing has been fixed, it has all been rug sweeped. Let’s not get to the bottom of anything. It doesn’t matter if they had a ONS or what ever happened, it isn’t happening now.

I know I could never live with this situation. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Hacker1234

I agree with you. And I will get to the bottom of it.


----------



## Hacker1234

The problem I am running into though, is that I have no proof of anything. Just a lot of evidence that points to she might like the guy. But everything seemed to have stopped after my little dday.

I did find 2 more bits of evidence, during the 2 week period before I said something, this was when all the weird stuff started happening. She had looked up chemistry vs love. And she had looked up gift ideas, and what she was looking at was something I know the OM is into. Because well she just talked about him so much and told me he liked that.

So I am here thinking, yes I need to get to the bottom of it. But I need to be very very careful, because it appears I snapped her out of whatever was happening.

I do feel we are in some kind of healing period. Everything right now seems to be about us and our family. All her attention has been focused on that, for the last couple weeks.


----------



## ABHale

Hacker1234 said:


> The problem I am running into though, is that I have no proof of anything. Just a lot of evidence that points to she might like the guy. But everything seemed to have stopped after my little dday.
> 
> I did find 2 more bits of evidence, during the 2 week period before I said something, this was when all the weird stuff started happening. She had looked up chemistry vs love. And she had looked up gift ideas, and what she was looking at was something I know the OM is into. Because well she just talked about him so much and told me he liked that.
> 
> So I am here thinking, yes I need to get to the bottom of it. But I need to be very very careful, because it appears I snapped her out of whatever was happening.
> 
> I do feel we are in some kind of healing period. Everything right now seems to be about us and our family. All her attention has been focused on that, for the last couple weeks.


Or it is just going on on apps that you can’t trace. She doesn’t need to text where you can see if it has been deleted or not. There are many ways to do this without you knowing.

Your wife can be making sure your happy at home to get you to back off.

You demand should be this. “With what I know you are not to share an office with your boss. You have disrespected me and our marriage with what you have done already. I know more then you think I do about you and your boss. Your choice our marriage or him.”

You are fooling yourself if you think her chemistry with him will lessen with them in the same office together.


----------



## ABHale

There are so many stories out here where the spouse is confronted with an EA for it to turn into a PA afterwards because boundaries were never put in place. The husband just never found anything after the EA was discovered until DD for the PA.


----------



## Clay2013

You might have changed her focus but if she is going to work next to this guy everyday this will be an ongoing battle for you. I personally would just sit her down. I would tell her how you feeling and this is becoming an issue that your willing to end the marriage over with. I would give her some options. If she really likes this guy and wants to persue that she is more than welcome to after you are divorced from her. If she wants to stay married she needs to do everything she can to keep YOU in this marriage. Her working closely with him and being in the same office with him is borderline a deal breaker for you. If that means she has to quit its now moved up to the top of the list. I don't think dragging this out and waiting for the shoe to drop is really going to serve you or her well in the long run. The truth is you have to be willing to walk away sometimes in order to save it. She needs to know her marriage is REALLY at risk over this. You can relay that and also show her gratitude for what she has done the last few weeks as well.


----------



## ABHale

*Then she said oh don't worry he is married with kids. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.*

This says it all. This isn’t a statement of love for you being the reason she wouldn’t do him. This is only an obstacle to over come for her to have sex with him. Words matter, she said a hell of a lot here and then her actions reinforced it. She felt guilty knowing what she wanted to do with her boss.

There is definitely feeling for him on your wife’s side of this. The question is this. Is she just going to stay the course and let them build up to the point of no return or not?


----------



## ABHale

Have the two of you read Not “Just Friends”?

If so, what was her reaction to the book?


----------



## Gabriel

He gets worried and we tell him to relax. He says they are healing and we tell him she wants to **** him. 

Jesus H - what a yo-yo this has been.

Bud, just enjoy the intimacy with her and be honest when you discuss it. And once in awhile check her apps and texts. Hopefully, there will be nothing there for many many times in a row and then you can feel okay stopping the monitoring.


----------



## Music_Man

ABHale said:


> Have the two of you read Not “Just Friends”?
> 
> If so, what was her reaction to the book?


OP- If you don't do anything else, make sure your W reads this and you need to read it too. It's an eye-opener, even for couples in strong relationships.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah it is a yo yo ride right now. I will get the book for sure. Things are looking up, but I understand I am not completely out of danger.

We do have boundaries set. Nothing outside of work is going to happen for either of us. It would be caught quickly. And that goes for both of us.

I think I need to keep tabs on this for a bit. I still think I caught this quick.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP, when did you find that new evidence? Was it something on internet history? If so, she is very naive for not deleting it. In a future this can work in your favor. Do not tell her where you found the evidence. 
And verify if there have been a purchase related to was she was looking for. 
Also, if you can get a keylogger it would work in your favor too. 
It doesn't mean you have to be a police for the rest of your marriage, but at least for several weeks.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yup I was peaking thru the web history during the weird 2 weeks and I found those 2 items. Lots of interesting things during those 2 weeks. Also I did a compare of texting, during those 2 weeks texting increased about 5 times compared to the whole month before. And died down after the little dday like everything else.


----------



## ABHale

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah it is a yo yo ride right now. I will get the book for sure. Things are looking up, but I understand I am not completely out of danger.
> 
> We do have boundaries set. Nothing outside of work is going to happen for either of us. It would be caught quickly. And that goes for both of us.
> 
> I think I need to keep tabs on this for a bit. I still think I caught this quick.


You did catch it quick....

The question remains unanswered if you stopped it. You wife has done nothing to prove it is over and finished. On the contrary, she has done everything to make you feel foolish or to catch you snooping on her.

On top of it all you do the pick me dance with her. “Look honey I can change don’t go and f your boss.” She has done nothing to change the situation. She hasn’t changed jobs to distance herself from him.

You know by her search history that she WANTS to buy gifts for him. What stopped her from buying the gift? Her love for you or knowing she would get caught and have to explain it.

You know she searched chemistry v love. You know she still loves you in away, is she still IN love with you? Have you asked?

You can be 99% sure the chemistry is with her boss. That means she is sexually attracted to him. I have read about wives and husbands that have gone through this. The only thing that puts an end to it is having absolutely nothing to do with the individual they’re attracted to. Even once no contact is done, it takes months for the feelings to fade. The more time spent with said individual the stronger the attraction. It gets to the point that it becomes an absolute need to be with that person. There has been times where that the OM/OW is seen again years later and it just happens. All the attraction from earlier comes back and they just go for it.

You need to make a list of EVERYTHING you have found. Put it in order that it has happened. Include when your wife started talking about her boss. Try to remember if there was a work function that happened around that time. Then go over the list to make sure nothing is left out.

Once the list is complete talk with your wife about it. Explain that for the first time in your relationship you actually believed she could be cheating on you. Explain how you felt by the way she talked about her boss and her actions since. Then give her the list and ask what she would think if the roles were reversed.

This could also be done in a counseling session. You can schedule a session so a third party can control and walk the two of you through it.

By what you have said, you won’t be finding a smoking gun to confront your wife with. She is really good at covering her tracks. Since you never followed up with her statement about no worries he is married, ask what if he was single? This can be done when you give her the list and Not Just Friends to read.


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah my first thought was chemistry was the boss too. I did read the article she searched for, was actually a really good read. It did get into the fog that is explained here. It did a good job explaining the nature of things with chemistry vs love. And I felt like the article was trying to talk the reader out following chemistry. Asking the reader, could you see yourself with this person in the long run AKA love.

Another weird thing I just remembered. A couple weeks before all of this. My wife did ask me a strange question after she found out someone she knows is a swinger. And was wondering what my thoughts were on an open marriage. I gave a huge list why I don't like it and she agreed with me. Also a couple days ago, she asked me. How do you think the covid thing has impacted our relationship. Then she quickly corrected herself and said oh nevermind, nothing has changed and she changed the subject.

I do think, confronting her right now is not the best idea. I am going to sit and watch a bit. And read that book.

I could be on very thin ice, if she truly in fact stopped. If it didn't stop and I still keeping finding things. I think your advice is the way to go.

Also during my little dday, I did ask her straight up if she still loved me. She said she did, and wanted to know what she could do to help me believe her.


----------



## mickybill

I am not sure you should leave that question hanging there. She thinks it has but then dismissed it. So it is on her mind as is open marriage.
You can sit and watch all you like but she WANTED TO TALK ABOUT "How do you think the covid thing has impacted our relationship." it wasn't random like ooh look at the duck in the backyard.

Bring it up and ask her what her thoughts are...


----------



## Hacker1234

I did think about bringing it up. But I felt like maybe I am just being hyper attentive on everything and picking up every little thing as a sign. So I let it be.

Speaking of little things, I do have another. The other day my wife was on a call with a friend. I overheard a bit of the call. Was a friend with some BF issues. She did talk me up a bit which I thought was neat. But she did say something weird, but logical at the same time. Pretty much she said she is stuck with me, but the good news is that I am awesome so it is ok. I am thinking stuck probably has to do with kids and money. But weird that she would use that word. That is something I would never say. I would say something like, I love my wife and family yada yada yada.


----------



## BluesPower

Hacker1234 said:


> Yeah my first thought was chemistry was the boss too. I did read the article she searched for, was actually a really good read. It did get into the fog that is explained here. It did a good job explaining the nature of things with chemistry vs love. And I felt like the article was trying to talk the reader out following chemistry. Asking the reader, could you see yourself with this person in the long run AKA love.
> 
> Another weird thing I just remembered. A couple weeks before all of this. My wife did ask me a strange question after she found out someone she knows is a swinger. And was wondering what my thoughts were on an open marriage. I gave a huge list why I don't like it and she agreed with me. Also a couple days ago, she asked me. How do you think the covid thing has impacted our relationship. Then she quickly corrected herself and said oh nevermind, nothing has changed and she changed the subject.
> 
> I do think, confronting her right now is not the best idea. I am going to sit and watch a bit. And read that book.
> 
> I could be on very thin ice, if she truly in fact stopped. If it didn't stop and I still keeping finding things. I think your advice is the way to go.
> 
> Also during my little dday, I did ask her straight up if she still loved me. She said she did, and wanted to know what she could do to help me believe her.


Gee I know I am stupid sometimes... But if she DID NOTHING, then how could she help you believe that she still loved you???? 

I mean, she is a great wife, sure you guys did not have sex that often as I remember, but she was a great wife. 

So while she DID NOTHING WRONG she is still asking what she can do to help you feel loved. 

Why are you tying yourself in a pretzel to MAKE YOURSELF believe she did not have an affair? 

Brother, when/if you find out the truth, please don't hurt yourself, just file for divorce. 

I already would have if I was you...


----------



## Hacker1234

We are not there yet. At the moment I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. She has the rope, it is up to her what she does with it.


----------



## cocolo2019

OMG Hacker, you never said before she asked you about open relationships. That question here in TAM qualifies as the mother of red flags. Now OP, based on that detail, your radar needs to put on the highest level.


----------



## Hacker1234

Well the question did come up some time before I started noticing all this stuff. So I really didn't think much of it, other than an interesting topic to talk about, since someone she knows does it.

But yes my radar is still up. I'm just laying low for a bit. To see if this goes anywhere. 

I have made up my mind on all scenarios if they come up.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Another weird thing I just remembered. A couple weeks before all of this. My wife did ask me a strange question after she found out someone she knows is a swinger. And was wondering what my thoughts were on an open marriage.


Are you ****ing kidding me? You just remembered this?


----------



## Hacker1234

Yeah I was thinking back about some of our convos. This was some time before all the weird stuff started so I didn't think much about it. We have actually talked about it before when I found out someone I knew had one. So I just didn't think much about it.


----------



## Music_Man

OP- Every time we think we have this thing figured out and that you're basically in the clear, you drop another nugget that completely flips the equation. 

Asking about open relationships and swinging and so forth? Dude...good luck. Sharing that office...good luck. 

I had hoped you had genuinely caught something before it started. Now, I'm not so sure. You might have just scratched the surface.


----------



## ABHale

Hacker1234 said:


> I did think about bringing it up. But I felt like maybe I am just being hyper attentive on everything and picking up every little thing as a sign. So I let it be.
> 
> Speaking of little things, I do have another. The other day my wife was on a call with a friend. I overheard a bit of the call. Was a friend with some BF issues. She did talk me up a bit which I thought was neat. But she did say something weird, but logical at the same time. Pretty much she said she is stuck with me, but the good news is that I am awesome so it is ok. I am thinking stuck probably has to do with kids and money. But weird that she would use that word. That is something I would never say. I would say something like, I love my wife and family yada yada yada.


I think she used the world exactly described how she feels being with you. Stuck Is not a flattering way to describe one’s relationship.


----------



## ABHale

I’m done man. You do what you feels best for you. Keep going around like a scared puppy and thinking that you’re the one on thin ice. When all along it is your wife that should be on thin ice with everything that has gone on. I absolutely love how you keep on adding things to the story.

With all the conversations that you keep bringing into this, it sounds like you’re a day late and a wife short. She’s already been screwing somebody or her boss or both. She was asking you about a open relationship to relieve her guilt for sleeping with somebody else trying to get you to go along with it. It isn’t the first time it’s been done that way. She also could’ve been trying to get you to go along with a open relationship so she could F her boss without any guilt and your permission. The conversations and everything else are way too close together to be coincidence.

Best of luck I’m done.


----------



## Hacker1234

Thanks for the good advice and the input. Sorry for bringing crap up like this. After being together for 20 years without any issues, I have had a lot of anxiety. This is all new to me. I am trying to figure it out.

I am just scared of the reality of everything. I am starting to come to terms with it and figuring out what the end game is.


----------



## cocolo2019

OP don't despair. You don't have a silver bullet. Of course your last statement elevated the red flag meter to 9, but still everything is circumstantial. It is good you think ahead of the different outcomes. For the moment stay on stealth mode. If everything happened or is going on, you will find out; because this time you have your radar up and you have the backup of TAM. Focus on yourself and read the books No More Mr Nice Guy and Marrier Man Sex Life Primer.


----------



## Gabriel

Only you know the context of why/how she asked about the open relationship thing. So many possibilities.

1) She wants to make sure YOU aren't into that. A test. 
2) She had someone in mind for herself, in case you allowed it.
3) She was just curious about your thoughts, because she knows someone else doing it.
4) She is hoping you'd say yes, because she's already got a side piece.

None of us ****ing know. 

Now, if my wife asked me that question, even in "peacetime", I would suspect it was either #1 or #2.


----------



## BluesPower

Hacker1234 said:


> Well the question did come up some time before I started noticing all this stuff. So I really didn't think much of it, other than an interesting topic to talk about, since someone she knows does it.
> 
> But yes my radar is still up. I'm just laying low for a bit. To see if this goes anywhere.
> 
> I have made up my mind on all scenarios if they come up.


Yeah, it makes you look like a troll. Which I am sure that you are not...

But yeah with that info, she is and has been cheating physically. No doubt in the world. 

So either you are the worst detective ever in the history of humanity, or she is super good a hiding and gas lighting you.

I am going with the latter. I am guess it all happens at work or she has a burner phone, or something else. 

Dude, just file already...


----------



## Hoosier

I divorced in 2011 after I discovered my wife of 30 years was having an affair. After the dust settled I realized that it had been going on about a year, mostly EA but then became physical. I also discovered it wasnt her first. I got to thinking back and remembered her discussing a person we knew who had an affair with another in our social group. She questioned me as to the guilt of the affair partner guy, and was ADAMENT that it was not all his fault, as the other party had been aggressively seeking his attention. I would not have it, saying at the time "He is in control of his actions, blame lays with him 100%" I know now that she was running a flag up the pole to see if anyone saluted, she was checking to see how I would respond to finding out about her. Red flag! Open relationship?!? Red flag!


----------



## Nucking Futs

BluesPower said:


> Yeah, it makes you look like a troll. Which I am sure that you are not...
> 
> But yeah with that info, she is and has been cheating physically. No doubt in the world.
> 
> So either you are the worst detective ever in the history of humanity, or she is super good a hiding and gas lighting you.
> 
> I am going with the latter. I am guess it all happens at work or she has a burner phone, or something else.
> 
> Dude, just file already...


I'm not as sure as you are, but I'll go along. Search for the burner phone. Install monitoring software on her phone. Don't get caught doing any of this.


----------



## Gabriel

Yeah, I'm not as sure either. But it sure does seem like Hacker has new info at the end of every post. Let's add these up.

She talks about her boss a lot - making Hacker uncomfortable to the point he has to say something
She says not to worry, because he is married with kids (not the best answer)
She looks him up on Facebook and Google several times, recently.
There are, what seem to be, deleted texts. Though Hacker has found no damning banter.
She knows he is snooping, and has tested him about it. But, she still has no passwords on her phone, and Hacker seems to have full reign on her computer, apps, etc.
There is a Victoria Secret gift card in her drawer, not well hidden, that Hacker didn't give her.
She has, at some time in the past, asked what Hacker's thoughts were on the open marriage concept.
Currently, they are doing quite well, getting along, sex is good, and behavior is on point.
My take - this is a wife who is seriously considering her options with other men. She's likely not cheated yet, but is starting to want to (I'll call it, "Cheat-curious"), and has a potential target in her boss. While she might be temporarily happy/satisfied right this minute, she's not fulfilled overall. She's making sure her husband is not on her trail, because she's looking for options and doesn't want him to know until she's decided to move on. Meanwhile, she's not miserable with Hacker, and is comfortable with him and happy to take his affection. But there is a wild side brewing, something she's been dying to explore but hasn't quite yet. She's looking for an opening. Hasn't quite pulled the trigger. She's biding her time. Floating the open relationship idea didn't work - that would have been the best scenario for her - keeping the comfort of Hacker while allowing the experimental side to blossom.


----------



## Music_Man

One thing I'm not sure has been mentioned yet, but OP- you do not want to get yourself into a position where you have to play Warden or Parole Officer to your wife for the remainder of your marriage. Constantly checking phones, emails, call logs, whereabouts, etc. is no way to live. If I felt that I needed to do that in my situation, there's no way I would have stayed. 

I realize that you are still very much in discovery mode right now, but this pattern you are currently in can easily become the norm if you allow it to be.

If your wife is truly open to the attention and advances of another man, and/or if she's 'putting out feelers' to gauge your reaction to her own desires, then my friend- you are fighting a losing battle. 

Search for a burner phone. Get a VAR in her car. Install a keylogger if at all possible. And stay quiet about all of it.


----------



## cocolo2019

Gabriel said:


> Yeah, I'm not as sure either. But it sure does seem like Hacker has new info at the end of every post. Let's add these up.
> 
> She talks about her boss a lot - making Hacker uncomfortable to the point he has to say something
> She says not to worry, because he is married with kids (not the best answer)
> She looks him up on Facebook and Google several times, recently.
> There are, what seem to be, deleted texts. Though Hacker has found no damning banter.
> She knows he is snooping, and has tested him about it. But, she still has no passwords on her phone, and Hacker seems to have full reign on her computer, apps, etc.
> There is a Victoria Secret gift card in her drawer, not well hidden, that Hacker didn't give her.
> She has, at some time in the past, asked what Hacker's thoughts were on the open marriage concept.
> Currently, they are doing quite well, getting along, sex is good, and behavior is on point.
> My take - this is a wife who is seriously considering her options with other men. She's likely not cheated yet, but is starting to want to (I'll call it, "Cheat-curious"), and has a potential target in her boss. While she might be temporarily happy/satisfied right this minute, she's not fulfilled overall. She's making sure her husband is not on her trail, because she's looking for options and doesn't want him to know until she's decided to move on. Meanwhile, she's not miserable with Hacker, and is comfortable with him and happy to take his affection. But there is a wild side brewing, something she's been dying to explore but hasn't quite yet. She's looking for an opening. Hasn't quite pulled the trigger. She's biding her time. Floating the open relationship idea didn't work - that would have been the best scenario for her - keeping the comfort of Hacker while allowing the experimental side to blossom.


You forgot she was perusing for gifts (things) that OM was into.


----------



## Gabriel

cocolo2019 said:


> You forgot she was perusing for gifts (things) that OM was into.


Thanks. That one is odd. And how does Hacker know the OM, in particular, is into these things? Also, this could be nefarious or it could be that people get gifts for their boss at the company. It is another item to note, though, yes.


----------



## BluesPower

Gabriel said:


> Yeah, I'm not as sure either. But it sure does seem like Hacker has new info at the end of every post. Let's add these up.
> 
> She talks about her boss a lot - making Hacker uncomfortable to the point he has to say something
> She says not to worry, because he is married with kids (not the best answer)
> She looks him up on Facebook and Google several times, recently.
> There are, what seem to be, deleted texts. Though Hacker has found no damning banter.
> She knows he is snooping, and has tested him about it. But, she still has no passwords on her phone, and Hacker seems to have full reign on her computer, apps, etc.
> There is a Victoria Secret gift card in her drawer, not well hidden, that Hacker didn't give her.
> She has, at some time in the past, asked what Hacker's thoughts were on the open marriage concept.
> Currently, they are doing quite well, getting along, sex is good, and behavior is on point.
> My take - this is a wife who is seriously considering her options with other men. She's likely not cheated yet, but is starting to want to (I'll call it, "Cheat-curious"), and has a potential target in her boss. While she might be temporarily happy/satisfied right this minute, she's not fulfilled overall. She's making sure her husband is not on her trail, because she's looking for options and doesn't want him to know until she's decided to move on. Meanwhile, she's not miserable with Hacker, and is comfortable with him and happy to take his affection. But there is a wild side brewing, something she's been dying to explore but hasn't quite yet. She's looking for an opening. Hasn't quite pulled the trigger. She's biding her time. Floating the open relationship idea didn't work - that would have been the best scenario for her - keeping the comfort of Hacker while allowing the experimental side to blossom.


I get you and this is a good synopsis, but here is the deal... 

Almost every time, that a woman brings up Open Marriage, it is because she is already physically cheating. 

Now I did say EVERY TIME, I am saying a huge percentage of the time. 

OP has a ton of red flags. A ton. 

So yes, I am saying that she is cheating or at least she was cheating...


----------



## notmyjamie

BluesPower said:


> Gee I know I am stupid sometimes... But if she DID NOTHING, then how could she help you believe that she still loved you????
> 
> I mean, she is a great wife, sure you guys did not have sex that often as I remember, but she was a great wife.
> 
> So while she DID NOTHING WRONG she is still asking what she can do to help you feel loved.


Honestly, if my spouse had asked me if I loved him I'd be feeling like I must have done something to make him doubt that...and I'd want to get to the bottom of it so I could correct my behavior. And my behavior would NOT have been cheating. I've never cheated on anyone. I'd be worried that I'd been unintentionally giving him less attention or something like that.

I think this yo yo stuff is going to put the poor OP in therapy!!! Some of this evidence against this woman is just crap. She knows something personal about him = inappropriate boundaries!!! I know all kinds of personal things about my coworkers and I've never had an affair with any of them. Most people have personal conversations at work...we spend all day together. How boring would the day be if all you ever discussed was work stuff? If my boyfriend told me I wasn't allowed to have personal conversations with male coworkers because it violated boundaries I'd be done with him.

And she has a Victoria's Secret card out in the open for him to see. Not a red flag at all in my opinion. Honestly, if she wanted to buy sexy stuff for an affair that card would be empty, not sitting around unused. She could buy the stuff with no trace back to the regular bank or credit cards.

I think bringing up swinging is a red flag but not proof. But it could just be a red flag that she's feeling the marriage and/or their sex life is in a rut. I know a guy whose wife asked about having a threesome to spice things up. He said no, but they came up with some other ways to spice things up together. She was just bored. They fixed it together. I think swinging is so out there for some people that when they hear about it they talk about it...like a bad car accident type of thing.

My guess is that she has or at least had a crush on the guy. It happens, even when you're married. But with some increased attention from OP she's over it. I hope and pray I'm right. But I still don't think it's okay to condemn a person on such little evidence. If I were married and my husband produced divorce papers on such flimsy evidence I'd sign them and tell him to go **** himself. Then I'd take a poly and show him the results...that he threw away his life for nothing because a bunch of guys on a forum told him to just divorce even though he had no real proof.


----------



## Gabriel

notmyjamie said:


> Honestly, if my spouse had asked me if I loved him I'd be feeling like I must have done something to make him doubt that...and I'd want to get to the bottom of it so I could correct my behavior. And my behavior would NOT have been cheating. I've never cheated on anyone. I'd be worried that I'd been unintentionally giving him less attention or something like that.
> 
> I think this yo yo stuff is going to put the poor OP in therapy!!! Some of this evidence against this woman is just crap. She knows something personal about him = inappropriate boundaries!!! I know all kinds of personal things about my coworkers and I've never had an affair with any of them. Most people have personal conversations at work...we spend all day together. How boring would the day be if all you ever discussed was work stuff? If my boyfriend told him I wasn't allowed to have personal conversations with male coworkers because it violated boundaries I'd be done with him.
> 
> And she has a Victoria's Secret card out in the open for him to see. Not a red flag at all in my opinion. Honestly, if she wanted to buy sexy stuff for an affair that card would be empty, not sitting around unused. She could buy the stuff with no trace back to the regular bank or credit cards.
> 
> I think bringing up swinging is a red flag but not proof. But it could just be a red flag that she's feeling the marriage and/or their sex life is in a rut. I know a guy whose wife asked about having a threesome to spice things up. He said no, but they came up with some other ways to spice things up together. She was just bored. They fixed it together. I think swinging is so out there for some people that when they hear about it they talk about it...like a bad car accident type of thing.
> 
> My guess is that she has or at least had a crush on the guy. It happens, even when you're married. But with some increased attention from OP she's over it. I hope and pray I'm right. But I still don't think it's okay to condemn a person on such little evidence. If I were married and my husband produced divorce papers on such flimsy evidence I'd sign them and tell him to go **** himself. Then I'd take a poly and show him the results...that he threw away his life for nothing because a bunch of guys on a forum told him to just divorce even though he had no real proof.


Yep, I tend to agree. I think she's Cheating-curious though.


----------



## BluesPower

notmyjamie said:


> Honestly, if my spouse had asked me if I loved him I'd be feeling like I must have done something to make him doubt that...and I'd want to get to the bottom of it so I could correct my behavior. And my behavior would NOT have been cheating. I've never cheated on anyone. I'd be worried that I'd been unintentionally giving him less attention or something like that.


She asked him, after he caught her "cheating" but no smoking gun... she asked "what she could DO to make him feel loved. 

TOTALLY different question, and further, after what had transpired I think it was a totally "Telling" question. 

SHE KNEW she had don't things, the "Affair" or in appropriate texting or whatever, but she KNEW she had done things to make him NOT FEEL LOVED... 

So yeah, that simple little question is both telling and a read flag, not that he needs anymore red flags. I myself would have already filed. 

If I don't feel loved for a very long period of time, you are gone in my world. With all these red flags, you are gone even sooner.


----------



## notmyjamie

BluesPower said:


> She asked him, after he caught her "cheating" but no smoking gun... she asked "what she could DO to make him feel loved.
> 
> TOTALLY different question, and further, after what had transpired I think it was a totally "Telling" question.
> 
> SHE KNEW she had don't things, the "Affair" or in appropriate texting or whatever, but she KNEW she had done things to make him NOT FEEL LOVED...
> 
> So yeah, that simple little question is both telling and a read flag, not that he needs anymore red flags. I myself would have already filed.
> 
> If I don't feel loved for a very long period of time, you are gone in my world. With all these red flags, you are gone even sooner.


If you would divorce your wife over such flimsy evidence more power to you, that's entirely your right. I'm glad I'm not married to you but then I'd guess you're glad you're not married to me so it's all good!!


----------



## bandit.45

> I am just scared of the reality of everything


Stop being scared. Fear is what keeps you in bondage. Fear is what causes you to make bad decisions and bury your head in the sand. Your gut was yelling at you when you started this thread, and your gut is SCREAMING at you now. When are you going to listen to it? 

What do you really have to fear? That this could end in divorce? What would be scarier: allowing her to string you along until she makes the jump and starts banging her boss and humiliates you? Or is it scarier to take the reins of your life and steer the end of the marriage so you will be the one in control of how it ends? Because here is the deal: everything she is doing, all of her weird behaviors and sly comments point to one thing, and that is she has fallen out of love with you. All she is doing right now is playing house and keeping you satiated. Those little comments she makes out of the blue and all of the obsessing she is doing over her boss are sure signs she is prepping herself to step outside the marriage. She is holding on to you until she feels ready to make the jump. She is a tree monkey if there ever was one.


----------



## Gabriel

bandit.45 said:


> All she is doing right now is playing house and keeping you satiated.
> 
> She is holding on to you until she feels ready to make the jump. She is a tree monkey if there ever was one.


These three sentences. Exactly.


----------



## snerg

notmyjamie said:


> If you would divorce your wife over such flimsy evidence more power to you, that's entirely your right. I'm glad I'm not married to you but then I'd guess you're glad you're not married to me so it's all good!!


Question to ask here.

Is it the divorce over "flimsy evidence" that you have an issue with or the fact that they simply will not tolerate poor behavior and removes that person from their life when their boundaries for what they will allow/tolerate have been breached one time too many?

I wouldn't put up with my SO antics if she acted the way OP's wife has been.
Flip side of the coin, my SO wouldn't put up with my antics either if I acted like OP's wife.
We both have hard lines in the concrete (not sand as you can make new lines in sand). If the lines are crossed, even by sliding your toe over the line, that's it. Now there are real world consequences that are going to be handed out. For some of those lines, filing immediately is a real world consequence.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> Another weird thing I just remembered. A couple weeks before all of this. My wife did ask me a strange question after she found out someone she knows is a swinger. And was wondering what my thoughts were on an open marriage. I gave a huge list why I don't like it and she agreed with me. Also a couple days ago, she asked me. How do you think the covid thing has impacted our relationship. Then she quickly corrected herself and said oh nevermind, nothing has changed and she changed the subject.


That is something to read. Your W is actively thinking about an open marriage IMO. I know of no one in my 55 years, especially from my W, bring up open marriage out of the blue. 

Your W needs to come clean with her thoughts on this marriage.


----------



## Hacker1234

I needed a week to gather my thoughts. After my exchange with ABHale. We had another confrontation. I laid it all out. It was pretty bad, but at the same time pretty calm. There was no gaslighting, projecting or anything. I did somewhat get a confession. The convo did seem genuine.

Looks like notmyjamie was right on. And Gabriel too mostly. However his opinion is a bit frightening.

In a nutshell, after my little dday. She felt guilty because they were talking too much. And she shut it all down. In person and the texts. This is clearly visible on the text logs, nothing for 3 weeks. There are texts now here and there, but at a much lower level. All check out too.

Pretty much since the little dday, everything has been normal. I am seeing nothing to make me think something is going on. It has been 2 months now pretty much.


----------



## bandit.45

I thi


Hacker1234 said:


> I needed a week to gather my thoughts. After my exchange with ABHale. We had another confrontation. I laid it all out. It was pretty bad, but at the same time pretty calm. There was no gaslighting, projecting or anything. I did somewhat get a confession. The convo did seem genuine.
> 
> Looks like notmyjamie was right on. And Gabriel too mostly. However his opinion is a bit frightening.
> 
> In a nutshell, after my little dday. She felt guilty because they were talking too much. And she shut it all down. In person and the texts. This is clearly visible on the text logs, nothing for 3 weeks. There are texts now here and there, but at a much lower level. All check out too.
> 
> Pretty much since the little dday, everything has been normal. I am seeing nothing to make me think something is going on. It has been 2 months now pretty much.


I think you caught her right before she did something stupid. You dodged a bullet, but you are still in the line of fire, because your wife's boundaries are non-existent. If I were you I would get the two of you in some kind of marriage counseling pronto.


----------



## notmyjamie

snerg said:


> Question to ask here.
> 
> Is it the divorce over "flimsy evidence" that you have an issue with or the fact that they simply will not tolerate poor behavior and removes that person from their life when their boundaries for what they will allow/tolerate have been breached one time too many?
> 
> I wouldn't put up with my SO antics if she acted the way OP's wife has been.
> Flip side of the coin, my SO wouldn't put up with my antics either if I acted like OP's wife.
> We both have hard lines in the concrete (not sand as you can make new lines in sand). If the lines are crossed, even by sliding your toe over the line, that's it. Now there are real world consequences that are going to be handed out. For some of those lines, filing immediately is a real world consequence.


In my opinion, the "evidence" against her showed she was infatuated with the guy, not that she was having a full on affair. Infatuations happen even when we are married. How we respond is what is important. So far I had seen no real evidence that she had gone over the line into an affair so I felt that showing up with divorce papers was a bit much. I have nothing against divorcing a cheating spouse, but to me, the "evidence" in this case was weak. One text is missing and there are some other double texts that the phone company admitted is an issue with their system. The same thing was happening on OP's phone. She threw away a pair of underwear?? OMG...I must have been cheating for years because I hate old underwear and throw a ton of them away. She had an unused Victoria's Secret card...again...if she were having an affair, it would have been used and OP would never have seen it. Unless I missed something I saw no real hard evidence against her. Even her bringing up swinging is not any kind of hard proof against her...my friends and I have discussed the practice, joking around, and no, we never engaged in it. And no, it's not something I have ever wanted to do, talking about it doesn't mean I want to do it. I've discusses climbing Mount Everest too but I have zero desire to that either. 

I saw proof of an infatuation which told me that maybe things have been humdrum in the marriage or OP and she have not been devoting enough time to the marriage.

@Hacker1234 , I hope things are getting back on track. I would also suggest some marriage counseling to help you strengthen your marriage. You have no way of knowing if she would have pushed the boundaries because you were so on top of things and I think that says a lot about how you know and respond to your wife. She's lucky to have such a connected partner. I wish you the best!!!!


----------



## Hacker1234

Notmyjamie, I'm not sure if you saw my post above. But yes everything got back on track. Everything at the moment is perfect.


----------



## Robert22205

*In a nutshell, after my little dday. She felt guilty because they were talking too much. And she shut it all down. In person and the texts. This is clearly visible on the text logs, nothing for 3 weeks. *

Congrats on finally getting her to acknowledge that it escalated to an inappropriate level - and also to confirm that she put her husband & marriage before chatting with the boss.

I think you were wise to confront early and to follow up recently. Your wife's reaction shows that she wants to be married to you and realizes that being married involves some compromises.


----------



## Thumos

Hacker1234 said:


> Notmyjamie, I'm not sure if you saw my post above. But yes everything got back on track. Everything at the moment is perfect.


If the two of you talked about it and had it out, and she’s still texting him “here and there” everything is not OK.


----------



## Thumos

You might want to check out the book “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass


----------



## Music_Man

Sounds like things are good and that you did catch it before it escalated- which I absolutely believe it would have. 

Still if she is still texting him at all, and if they are sharing an office together, then you are going to have to monitor things.

Given your wife's boundary issues, I personally would ask that she find another job and cut off all contact. I wouldn't want to have to constantly wonder if a line is being crossed. A look here, a smile there, and the butterflies could return without warning.


----------



## hinterdir

notmyjamie said:


> In my opinion, the "evidence" against her showed she was infatuated with the guy, not that she was having a full on affair. Infatuations happen even when we are married. How we respond is what is important. So far I had seen no real evidence that she had gone over the line into an affair so I felt that showing up with divorce papers was a bit much. I have nothing against divorcing a cheating spouse, but to me, the "evidence" in this case was weak. One text is missing and there are some other double texts that the phone company admitted is an issue with their system. The same thing was happening on OP's phone. She threw away a pair of underwear?? OMG...I must have been cheating for years because I hate old underwear and throw a ton of them away. She had an unused Victoria's Secret card...again...if she were having an affair, it would have been used and OP would never have seen it. Unless I missed something I saw no real hard evidence against her. Even her bringing up swinging is not any kind of hard proof against her...my friends and I have discussed the practice, joking around, and no, we never engaged in it. And no, it's not something I have ever wanted to do, talking about it doesn't mean I want to do it. I've discusses climbing Mount Everest too but I have zero desire to that either.
> 
> I saw proof of an infatuation which told me that maybe things have been humdrum in the marriage or OP and she have not been devoting enough time to the marriage.
> 
> @Hacker1234 , I hope things are getting back on track. I would also suggest some marriage counseling to help you strengthen your marriage. You have no way of knowing if she would have pushed the boundaries because you were so on top of things and I think that says a lot about how you know and respond to your wife. She's lucky to have such a connected partner. I wish you the best!!!!


Well if trust is gone things can be over.
If she is behaving in a way that seems untrustworthy, shady, causing anxiety stress and worry I have no prob ending things.
Getting feelings for someone?
The correct response is to honor the marriage and end those feelings by starving them and cutting contact and time with the person and not feeding them with more time and interaction.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Music_Man said:


> Sounds like things are good and that you did catch it before it escalated- which I absolutely believe it would have.
> 
> Still if she is still texting him at all, and if they are sharing an office together, then you are going to have to monitor things.
> 
> Given your wife's boundary issues, I personally would ask that *she find another job and cut off all contact.* I wouldn't want to have to constantly wonder if a line is being crossed. A look here, a smile there, and the butterflies could return without warning.


Yep. She needs to find another job ASAP. Don't compromise on this, if you leave them in contact you're asking for trouble.


----------



## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> I needed a week to gather my thoughts. After my exchange with ABHale. We had another confrontation. I laid it all out. It was pretty bad, but at the same time pretty calm. There was no gaslighting, projecting or anything. I did somewhat get a confession. The convo did seem genuine.
> 
> Looks like notmyjamie was right on. And Gabriel too mostly. However his opinion is a bit frightening.
> 
> In a nutshell, after my little dday. She felt guilty because they were talking too much. And she shut it all down. In person and the texts. This is clearly visible on the text logs, nothing for 3 weeks. There are texts now here and there, but at a much lower level. All check out too.
> 
> Pretty much since the little dday, everything has been normal. I am seeing nothing to make me think something is going on. It has been 2 months now pretty much.


It appears you did well with the DDay. Your W woke the hell up and realized she was on a slippery slope. Your W shut it down. That is good. Perhaps a reading of "Not Just Friends" is in order.


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## Gabriel

Thumos said:


> If the two of you talked about it and had it out, and she’s still texting him “here and there” everything is not OK.


He is her boss, and they share a workspace. They have to talk "here and there". 

Hacker, seems you caught this in time, and she realized she was getting too friendly with him. That's good.

I still think she is a candidate to do this again. Permanent boundaries need to be set. And yeah, might be a good idea for her to start job hunting. She is susceptible. And while she might lay low for a few weeks/months, there is something inside her that is very curious about other men. She needs to ask herself why that is, and determine whether she is getting what she wants/needs out of being married. Perhaps a few sessions with a counselor is in order.....I'd want to get to the bottom of why she asked about open marriages, and why she felt the need to talk so much with her boss.


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## notmyjamie

hinterdir said:


> Well if trust is gone things can be over.
> If she is behaving in a way that seems untrustworthy, shady, causing anxiety stress and worry I have no prob ending things.
> Getting feelings for someone?
> The correct response is to honor the marriage and end those feelings by starving them and cutting contact and time with the person and not feeding them with more time and interaction.


I don’t equate having feelings for someone with an infatuation. And it didn’t seem to me that she was hanging out with this guy. OP worried the Starbucks trips were with him but when he tried to confirm she was by herself.

We have different opinions on how to read the situation. It’s ok, the world won’t end. I respect your opinion and ability to discuss it with respect. Thank you!!!


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## hinterdir

Nucking Futs said:


> Yep. She needs to find another job ASAP. Don't compromise on this, if you leave them in contact you're asking for trouble.


So she is still actually working with the guy, in the exact same office?
8-10 hours together every single day, talking all day, lunches together, can pop out to the parking lot or a quit drive any time they want?
Give me a break.
If this is true OP then she probably hasn't stopped anything....they just gave up the texting part of their affair. 

That's is just ridiculous.


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## Hacker1234

Actually no. My Wife works part time. The guy isn't there everyday and appears from what I can tell is in the office maybe 6 to 9 hours a week. Leaves before lunch too.


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## Nucking Futs

Hacker1234 said:


> Actually no. My Wife works part time. The guy isn't there everyday and appears from what I can tell is in the office maybe 6 to 9 hours a week. Leaves before lunch too.


Part time job should be easy to replace. I wonder how much push back you're going to get when you tell her. You _are _going to tell her, aren't you?


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## Thumos

Gabriel said:


> He is her boss, and they share a workspace. They have to talk "here and there".


Even worse. The possibility that this dalliance/flirtation/infatuation reignites and get serious is now high. Getting a new job should be on the table. She should be offering it.

OP if you let this go on without a firm stance, you’re not fighting for your marriage. You’re letting what _might_ have been the inklings of an EA go underground and turn into a full blown PIV physical affair.

Do you want that? 

If you let this go on, don’t surprised if you’re back in a few weeks telling us everything is not perfect at all and has gone to sh*t


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## Gabriel

Nucking Futs said:


> Part time job should be easy to replace. I wonder how much push back you're going to get when you tell her. You _are _going to tell her, aren't you?


Right. She can get part time work. Didn't she say she hated her job before? Seems like a reasonable consequence. 

But.

She could just pick a new target at a new job. This boss isn't the problem. It's her curiosity about other men.


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## Hacker1234

So it has been a bit over 2 weeks since the last fight. So far everything seems normal. However what Gabriel said had me wondering.

I did check things out and everything looks good, but I found one weird thing. A couple days back she looked up a different coworker on FB, and at the same time was trying to find vital records on him on google. I thought it was a bit odd. I do know of him, she has talked about him a handful of times over the last couple years they worked together. Other than that, no communication at all between them that I can tell. I just think that was odd. Probably nothing, but Gabriel has me wondering.


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## cocolo2019

Hacker1234 said:


> So it has been a bit over 2 weeks since the last fight. So far everything seems normal. However what Gabriel said had me wondering.
> 
> I did check things out and everything looks good, but I found one weird thing. A couple days back she looked up a different coworker on FB, and at the same time was trying to find vital records on him on google. I thought it was a bit odd. I do know of him, she has talked about him a handful of times over the last couple years they worked together. Other than that, no communication at all between them that I can tell. I just think that was odd. Probably nothing, but Gabriel has me wondering.


Greetings OP.
I hope you're doing good.
Regarding your last post, you can use this website, verify the phone number by OM2's name and verify if it appears in your wife's call list. Also, you can use it as a phone reverse lookup, in case you find a weird phone number.









Free Reverse Phone Lookup & Search - USPhoneBook


USPhoneBook.com reverse phone lookups are 100% FREE. We search billions of records to provide you with a name and location of any U.S. phone number.




www.usphonebook.com


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## VladDracul

Hacker1234 said:


> I did check things out and everything looks good, but I found one weird thing. A couple days back she looked up a different coworker on FB, and at the same time was trying to find vital records on him on google. I thought it was a bit odd. I do know of him, she has talked about him a handful of times over the last couple years they worked together.


Ya Dawg, I know what you mean. A couple of weeks ago, I checked out this Ram 3500 diesel this guy was gonna give me a deal on. I did check things out and everything looked good, but I found some weird things. The thing was blowing white smoke, leaking transmission fluid, and water in the oil. Other than that, nothing jumped out at me. I just think that was odd. Probably nothing. 
Here's the thing Hacker. If the woman had much romantic interest in you, she wouldn't wouldn't be sizing up other guys. Wouldn't it be nice if you had a wife you didn't feel like you have to have an ankle bracelet on to know where she is when youre out of sight. I got news for you my man, her behavior is not odd at all. I've been around too many women who's tingle they once had for a man is not strong enough to keep them from wondering about the bull in the other pasture.


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## Hacker1234

*cocolo2019, *thanks for that info. I looked it up. All is clear there.

Vlad, yeah I know what you mean. I just really need to figure out what the issue is.

Something interesting happened with the OM1 last week. Wife and I need some help on a project and it turns out the OM1 Wife thats what she does and he gave us her contact info. Now if I was into a girl and married, the last thing I would do if give out my Wife's contact info for work. Hell no. So I am now thinking nothing is there, if anything it was one sided like many have said.

Something is just fishy. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of it.


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## mickybill

Is there any reason that her job would require for her to look up other employees like is she in HR.


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## Gabriel

HR could be a reason. Or maybe your wife is just a really nosy person. Or, she's attracted to him. Who the heck knows. It's a bit odd to be looking up such specific information on any coworker.


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## Hacker1234

It's been a while. So far everything is great. No issues no nothing. Just dating my wife as suggested. Last week I took her out to this new place, we had a great time. A couple days ago, she said hey let's go again and we did. Sex has been amazing, and the amount is way up. Was never bad before, but I think whatever I'm doing has been noticed.

I think I won this one.


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## MattMatt

@Hacker1234 I hope you did. But be cautious.


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## syhoybenden

"Doveryay, no proveryay._"_


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## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> @Hacker1234 I hope you did. But be cautious.


She might have gone through a mild _what-if_ 'phase'.

Phases can be, but are rarely, once-done.

.............................................................................

Some people are curious about others, some are outright nosy.
The latter are the office, or the back-fence gossips

OP's wife may only be the curious type.
I know many lady gossips and I never overfeed these story-twister sisters.


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## Gabriel

Glad to hear this has reached a good spot for you. Sometimes you need to fight for your marriage - you did that, and it seems to be reaping some rewards. Best of luck going forward.


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## bandit.45

Be vigilant and if I were you and her, you should get into some marriage counseling to work on your boundaries as a couple.


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## Music_Man

I sincerely hope things are going in the right direction. However, if some of your W's behavior is not properly addressed and she doesn't deal with it through counseling, then you are going to be dealing with this again.

Worse yet, she may even feel emboldened through this enough to take things a few steps further down the road. Be vigilant, be alert, and don't get complacent in any way.


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## Robert22205

congrats! it's nice to hear good news! thanks for checking in.


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## Yeswecan

Hacker1234 said:


> It's been a while. So far everything is great. No issues no nothing. Just dating my wife as suggested. Last week I took her out to this new place, we had a great time. A couple days ago, she said hey let's go again and we did. Sex has been amazing, and the amount is way up. Was never bad before, but I think whatever I'm doing has been noticed.
> 
> I think I won this one.


You won more than just this one. You won your W heart (again) just like when you were dating. Keep it up! (sort of speaking)  This is one way to affair proof a marriage. There are other ways as well. Search the internet.


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## oliesao

You have access to the phone, maybe you can install spyware to see the truth. KidsGuard Pro for Android - Reliable Android Phone Monitoring & Tracking App


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## Unknown2u

Hacker1234 said:


> I have a weird feeling something isn't right, but maybe it is nothing.
> Wife and I have been married close to 20 years. We have 3 kids and we both have successful careers. Our marriage is good, no real problems other than the regular issues in life we all face. Sometimes I do forget to take out the trash. Sex life has zero issues and very regular. I would say we have it pretty good.
> 
> However over the past couple months something has been bugging me. The owner of the business she works at, she talks about him a lot. She will come home and say, he said this or did that. She talks him up all the time. Recently she got a raise out of nowhere, turns out it she was the only one.
> 
> I have looked at her phone, they do text but it is only work related stuff. All harmless. They are not friends on Facebook. There is nothing out of the ordinary in her activities.
> 
> Last night, she brought him up again. And I made a snarky reply like oh your boy friend did that. She laughed.
> 
> Later that night, I am in the yard doing some work. I must have struck a nerve, because she brought up what I said. I let her know that her talking about him all the time is bugging me. Then she said oh don't worry he is married with kids. That wasn't really what I was wanting to hear. Then she said she will stop talking about him if its bugging me.
> 
> Then later we sat in bed for a while and chatted about stuff. We did have sex, which I did find interesting. Because normally she has an issue if we do it on consecutive days. We had done it the night before.
> 
> So I don't know. Maybe it is nothing, maybe she likes the guy or something. At this point I know there is nothing physical.
> 
> What are your thoughts.


Isn't that how cheating starts? They start off talking about work then it becomes more personal stuff then they have an emotional relationship and so on. It is weird that she keeps bringing him up and talking to you about him like he is something so special to her. Do you think she had sex with you after talking about him for any particular reason? Maybe to throw you off that subject and stop your suspicions? It doesn't matter if he has kids and a wife. Married people cheat! Most commonly with co workers. If he sees she is interested then what would stop him from wanting to move forward with anything. I would also keep tabs on him as suggested others here. Do they have a facebook? fake facebook account to go find the truth!


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