# Ephiphany? What IS physical abuse?



## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

I'm finding more and more on these message boards about grabbing and pushing and even being held down (or against a wall) as physical abuse. My husband recently hit me, for real, with his hand, on the side of my head - hard. That's when I made him leave and that WAS what I considered the first time he physically abused me. But I keep seeing this stuff about pushing, grabbing, etc. He had done that before - pushed, held me against walls by my arms, held me down to the bed quite a bit over the years. His favorate is to confine me in the walk in closet while he yells at me so I can't go anywhere, but he's not actually touching me during this, so that's not physical - just emotional abuse. Are you saying this is all physical abuse too? Really? Do you mean to tell me he's been physically abusing me longer than I realized? That the pushing and holding me down and against walls was physical abuse and I was too stupid to realize it? Because he didn't leave bruises I didn't realize it? I don't know what to think here.


----------



## chefmaster (Oct 30, 2010)

I'm afraid so hon, grabbing your arms, shaking you and pushing you around is physical abuse. Locking you in the closet is also a form of physical abuse in many places it's referred to as false imprisonment.

All of them are domestic violence.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Chefmaster is right. That is physical abuse and the rest is emotional abuse but its all called domestic violence.

My ex used to do the same thing - sit on me on the couch so I couldn't go anywhere while he yelled, cussed and made me feel like a piece of crap.

I don't care what you did/didn't do - NO ONE DESERVES TO BE ABUSED, PHYSICALLY, EMOTIONALLY OR SEXUALLY. Abusers will not change until they recognize that they "are" abusers and seek professional help. 

Since you've said this has been going on for years - you can see that this is how he resolves his frustration and anger - takes it out on someone else who can't or won't fight back. That's a bully who says he loves you and hides behind the title of husband to make it all okay (in his mind).

Either he gets help or you should leave - no ifs, ands, or buts. I've been there - it won't get better.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

julia71 said:


> I'm finding more and more on these message boards about grabbing and pushing and even being held down (or against a wall) as physical abuse. My husband recently hit me, for real, with his hand, on the side of my head - hard. That's when I made him leave and that WAS what I considered the first time he physically abused me. But I keep seeing this stuff about pushing, grabbing, etc. He had done that before - pushed, held me against walls by my arms, held me down to the bed quite a bit over the years. His favorate is to confine me in the walk in closet while he yells at me so I can't go anywhere, but he's not actually touching me during this, so that's not physical - just emotional abuse. Are you saying this is all physical abuse too? Really? Do you mean to tell me he's been physically abusing me longer than I realized? That the pushing and holding me down and against walls was physical abuse and I was too stupid to realize it? Because he didn't leave bruises I didn't realize it? I don't know what to think here.


Every damn thing you mentioned is physical abuse. Get away from this person. Trust me when I say they will not change.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Tennessee Code Annotated 39-13-101

Assault: A person commits assault who:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; 
(2) Intentionally or knowingly causes another to reasonably fear imminent bodily injury; or 
(3) Intentionally or knowingly causes physical contact with another and a reasonable person whould regard the contact as extremely offensive or provocative. (1 and 2 are Class A Misdemeanors) (3) is a Class B misdemeanor. 

Holding against a wall, pushing, shoving, kicking, slapping, scratching, throwing stuff at, etc, etc, is all assault in this state and in most others. 

HOLDING SOMEONE AGAINST A WALL OR PREVENTING THEM LEAVING:

False Imprisonment -Tennessee Code Annotated 39-13-302
(a) A person commits the offense of false imprisonment who knowingly removes or confines another unlawfully so as to interfere substantially with the other's liberty. Class A misdemeanor. 
Use a weapon or substantially risk injuring the person, you get bumped to Kidnapping, a Class C. felony. Use a deadly weapon or cause serious bodily injury, bumped to Agg. Kidnapping, a Class B felony.


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> I'm finding more and more on these message boards about grabbing and pushing and even being held down (or against a wall) as physical abuse. My husband recently* hit me, for real, with his hand, on the side of my head* - hard. That's when I made him leave and that WAS what I considered the first time he physically abused me. But I keep seeing this stuff about pushing, grabbing, etc. He had done that before - *pushed, held me against walls by my arms, held me down to the bed* quite a bit over the years. His favorate is to confine me in the walk in closet while he yells at me so I can't go anywhere, but he's not actually touching me during this, so that's not physical - just emotional abuse. Are you saying this is all physical abuse too? Really? Do you mean to tell me he's been physically abusing me longer than I realized? That the pushing and holding me down and against walls was physical abuse and I was too stupid to realize it? Because he didn't leave bruises I didn't realize it? I don't know what to think here.


I did the exact same thing. When I was a child one of my parents would hit me with a wooden board (envision a broom-handle) until the adult got tired. Needless to say that was just the physical aspect--there were many more aspects emotional, mental and verbal abuse--but as a kid I was worried about surviving the more physical stuff. 

Then, when I got older, I married a guy who was stunningly handsome but also abusive. The thing is, he wasn't PHYSICALLY abusive in that he didn't ball up his fist and HIT me, so I never saw it. Shoot, it didn't cross my mind! I don't mean this mean, but if someone only yelled at me that seemed fairly easy! Plus (at the time) I still sort of believed that I deserved it because he would have never had to do it if I had only XYZ (right)? 

As I got older, matured a little more, and learned about what abuse actually WAS I came to realize that a lot of what he did was actually physical abuse. And at first I thought, "Well, I'm just making this abuse up to justify divorce" or something to that effect. Nope. Pushing someone onto the floor and choking them for not rearranging the pans at 2am is physical abuse. So is throwing stuff at me like plates or heavy books or the phone. So is threatening to harm my dog or cat if I don't do what he wants (he used to kick them and threaten to kill the pets, which would have killed the kids)--that's also a mix with some psychological abuse FYI. So is grabbing me by the shoulders so hard it left hand-print bruises. So is hitting our walls with a sledgehammer until I agreed to do whatever it was he wanted--or punching in the door right near my head. So is grabbing me out of the bed and dragging me out by the ankles while I'm asleep (like at 3am) because he wanted me to clean or cook--he was awake and it was irrelevant that I had to work in the morning. 

I would recommend two websites to you that might be helpful. The first one is Domestic Violence and Abuse which really goes over everything from signs of abuse to different types of abuse to the cycle of violence. It's really informative, and from there you can link to other spots--even "intimate partner abuse" for the guys! The second one looks more like a research paper but it still gives some really good definitions of physical, emotional, and mental (psychological) abuse Abuse in Intimate Relationships: Defining the Multiple Dimensions and Terms. 

If you need anything else, including a safety plan or help to get out and get safe, hit me up in a PM okay?


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

julia71 said:


> I'm finding more and more on these message boards about grabbing and pushing and even being held down (or against a wall) as physical abuse. My husband recently hit me, for real, with his hand, on the side of my head - hard. That's when I made him leave and that WAS what I considered the first time he physically abused me. But I keep seeing this stuff about pushing, grabbing, etc. He had done that before - pushed, held me against walls by my arms, held me down to the bed quite a bit over the years. His favorate is to confine me in the walk in closet while he yells at me so I can't go anywhere, but he's not actually touching me during this, so that's not physical - just emotional abuse. Are you saying this is all physical abuse too? Really? Do you mean to tell me he's been physically abusing me longer than I realized? That the pushing and holding me down and against walls was physical abuse and I was too stupid to realize it? Because he didn't leave bruises I didn't realize it? I don't know what to think here.



Julia, let me help you understand things a little bit. A different perspective for you. I’m a 6ft big strong man and my wife is a cute 5ft 2.5 inch petite woman. In over 4 decades together there were times when I felt extreme provocation from my wife. Not once in the 42 years we were together did I ever lay a hand on her in anyway whatsoever. Not once even under the most extreme provocation.

There is no excuse for a man for ever using his strength against his wife or any other woman. Do not make excuses for him or ever feel that you in some way deserved it. A man rightly has physical strength. But that’s reserved to protect the people he loves and himself against other men.

Bob


----------



## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

To let all of you know, when he hit me in the head, I left the house immediately - well, not immediately, it took a little doing because he didn't exactly WANT to let me go (he was drunk - it's when he's drunk that he does this crap), so he trapped me in the kitchen for a bit, holding me against the kitchen counters, etc., but I eventually got out. The next day, when he was sober, I came back and made him move out - so he's not living at home anymore. So we're not living together right now - I appreciate everyone's concern - I'm safe - he's not at the house.

But I'm in a quandry. He's been verbally/emotionally (and apparently physically abusing me) for the past 5 years because he's an alcoholic. I've pretty much lost all trust in him. I'm emotionally numb. Love? Well, that's a sticky wicket. I don't love him like a wife should love a husband anymore - only as a friend - at least I think that's how I feel. It's been just over 2 weeks - he's going to AA and a counselor - but I just don't know that I trust he's doing it for the right reasons. I fear he's doing it just to win me back - which means it won't last. I'm terrified to try and go back into this marriage and work on it, for fear that he'll drink again and the verbal/physical abuse will start again. But at the same time, I'm not sure I'm ready to just call it quits. My counselor says I don't have to make a decision now- give myself time - just stay separated for now. I DO know if he has so much as ONE drink - I'm immediately filing for divorce.


----------



## HM3 (Aug 18, 2010)

It's not the drink that makes them abusive. The plain fact is that he is abusive. Lots of people get drunk, do they hit people? No. If you were in a bar and he got drunk, would he be abusive to others in the bar? The answer is probably no. He wouldn't pick a fight with a big guy in the bar because he's drunk. The drink is a blame tool, but the truth of it is either you're abusive or you're not.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I've always been amazed over the men and women who couldn't stop themselves from assaulting their spouse but they generally managed to control their violent urges when the police showed up.
If the red dot of a Taser in the center of your chest can halt your violence, you aren't too drunk, drugged, or crazy to control your violence yourself.


----------



## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

HM3 said:


> It's not the drink that makes them abusive. The plain fact is that he is abusive. Lots of people get drunk, do they hit people? No. If you were in a bar and he got drunk, would he be abusive to others in the bar? The answer is probably no. He wouldn't pick a fight with a big guy in the bar because he's drunk. The drink is a blame tool, but the truth of it is either you're abusive or you're not.


Well, that's true. I know the verbal abuse would continue even when he was sober, it just wasn't as extreme - definitely worse when he's drunk - but even sober he was still would put me down, make me feel like I couldn't say certain things for fear of pissing him off, was always aggravated with me (and the kids), I (and the kids) could rarely do anything right, always criticizing me (and the kids). Pretty much his way or the highway. He was never physically abusive when sober - not that that really matters. Honestly the verbal abuse is pretty freaking terrible too - just as bad as physical abuse in so many ways. People who have never dealt with it look at me like I have two heads when I say that! People just can't understand that verbal abuse is like physical abuse - but you're taking the hits on the inside.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Julia,

The problem is not the form of abuse but the fact that abuse exists. The man who would cuss his wife like a dog also has the mindset to hit her. The man who shoves has the mindset to hit. The problem is what's between his ears, not what's in his glass. The alcohol only lowers his inhibitions and lets you get a look at what's really been inside him all along. The time to put a stop to abuse is at the first sign of disrespectful or controlling behavior. Belittling, controlling, or hateful speech is no more acceptable than an assault with a baseball bat and he needs to learn you aren't prepared to tolerate either. 
When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. A dishonest person will be dishonest again. A violent person will be violent again. Sounds like this guy has been showing you his true nature for a long time. Allowed to get away with unacceptable conduct, he naturally has felt free to increase his level of force. If allowed to get away with a punch, he'll escalate from there. He needs to understand he has a serious problem and he needs to get professional help. You need to examine yourself to figure out why you tolerated abusive conduct. Emotionally healthy people don't like abuse or disrespect. They identify it quickly and generally don't tolerate it. In the end, no one can do anything to us that we don't permit.


----------



## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

julia71 said:


> Well, that's true. I know the verbal abuse would continue even when he was sober, it just wasn't as extreme - definitely worse when he's drunk - but even sober he was still would put me down, make me feel like I couldn't say certain things for fear of pissing him off, was always aggravated with me (*and the kids*), I (*and the kids*) could rarely do anything right, always criticizing me (*and the kids*). Pretty much his way or the highway. He was never physically abusive when sober - not that that really matters. Honestly the verbal abuse is pretty freaking terrible too - just as bad as physical abuse in so many ways. People who have never dealt with it look at me like I have two heads when I say that! People just can't understand that _verbal abuse is like physical abuse - but you're taking the hits on the inside_.


You've totally got it right there! I used to lead violence prevention groups with teenagers and when I'd do dating violence sessions with the girls, one of the things I'd always say is that frankly, I'd rather get hit. The pain from that only lasts a little while, but the things people say will echo in your head forever. 

Is that something that your kids deserve to grow up with? What are they learning by growing up being treated that way by their own father AND by watching the way he treats you? Do you honestly think they don't know what he's doing to you? Let me tell you, every single kid that I ever worked with in our safehouse whether they were 5 or 15 knew exactly what Dad was doing to Mom even if they were "asleep" or the doors were closed.

The other point I always made with my girls too was along the lines of what unbelievable said. Domestic violence always and only escalates. Think back on your relationship. I bet that even sober, there have been a lot of things along the way that built up to this last assault. Suggestions that you wear this instead of that. Spend time just with him instead of other friends for one reason or another. Then when you were resistant to making more seemingly small changes, the insults started, they made you feel bad, so you did what he wanted. Then it went to yelling, then getting in your face, etc. 

It sounds like you're on a good track seeing a counselor, but I'd really encourage you to look for a domestic violence support group in your area, talking with other women who've had the same experiences could be a huge help for you as well. The groups usually have women who have stayed, left, not decided--the whole spectrum so there are lots of points of view.


----------



## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

julia71 said:


> he's going to AA and a counselor - but I just don't know that I trust he's doing it for the right reasons. I fear he's doing it just to win me back - which means it won't last.


There is a common myth that an alcoholic cannot quit unless s/he WANTS to. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of alcoholics are FORCED into treatment either by law or by facing the reality of losing loved ones.

It is a LONG road, alcohol recovery. But the "wrong reasons" can become the right reasons.



> I'm terrified to try and go back into this marriage and work on it, for fear that he'll drink again and the verbal/physical abuse will start again. But at the same time, I'm not sure I'm ready to just call it quits. My counselor says I don't have to make a decision now- give myself time - just stay separated for now.


True dat. Another thing to think about. When I was working at the battered women's shelter, there were some women who would/could not leave their batterers for religious reasons. The battered women's shelter would help them come up with a plan for getting to a safe place if it looked like an episode was brewing. You probably can see when things are starting to go downhill. One woman would see the signs and lock herself in the attack room. It had a very solid door and was very safe. 

I am not suggesting this is a good idea. I can't decide for you what to do. But I am trying to offer you options. And option one might be to go talk to someone at the battered women's shelter near you or phone the hot line.


> I DO know if he has so much as ONE drink - I'm immediately filing for divorce.


Well in my opinion, file for divorce. The rate of relapse in alcoholics is HUGE. It is nearly impossible to walk away from alcohol in one move.


----------



## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

you have suffered, mental, phsyical, emotional, mayhap sexual...i am so so sorry of what you had to go through, its not fair that it went on for 5 years.

now you know, get away from him, he has other issues that are way deeper that abuse, his drinking is a cover for something else, poss scary...

are you seeking counceling for your self?? please go talk to someone...

get better, you do not deserve this, you are a good person...


----------



## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

So, he's not been to AA at all this week. And his therapist? Well last night his therapist pretty much dumped him - told him that if he needs him give him a call - but that he's not sure what he's there for. I told him he got a bad therapist, so he needs to get another one, but he said that everything he needs to work on is stuff with ME - so until I decide if we're going to work on our marriage, he doesn't know what to talk about with a counselor. *sigh* Really? Self-esteem issues? Alcoholism? Anger-management? Just to start... I told him he's got to work on him - regardless of US - he DOES have things to work on (see prior list). But he was being all negative and busy beating himself up. He's keeps going like this, he's going to crash - right into a beer can. He told me last week how all the people at the AA meeting were so much more messed up than him (RED FLAG ANYONE?!!!). 

He's giving me ALOT of lip service, but last night it occured to me for the first time since we separated that I don't think he can really change. He says he can, blah blah blah, lots of tears, heartache, I'm so sorry, I don't deserve another chance, you know - all the stuff you see in Lifetime Movies. He's being REAL nice right now - which makes it harder for me. Though a good friend of mine says of course he is - he's in trouble with you and has alot of lose - he always behaves after he's been a particularly big a$$. This time you threw him out - so he's being extra good cause he's in extra big trouble. Of course my friend despises him! 

My smart brain says - you know the answer... my heart says - no you don't. I'm about to evict my heart on grounds of it being an idiot.


----------



## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

It starts with pushing and shoving. Throwing things. Breaking objects. Then it moves up to hitting.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"I don't deserve another chance." (Then, why's he begging for one?) "Everyone else at AA is more messed up than I am." These two statements aren't congruent on their face, but if you accept that the first one is just a lie, combined, they make perfect sense. What you're hearing is typical manipulative BS from someone who has spent his life creating messes and then smoozing his way out of them. If his primary problem is "with you", then, logically, he sees the primary problem AS you. The drinking isn't his problem, the hitting isn't his problem. His problem (which he sees as temporary) is that he's finding it just a wee bit tougher to manipulate you. He'll grovel for now, but I bet if you give in, you'll pay dearly for it the next time you "make" him go off.


----------



## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Julia,

The way I see it, is YOU DESERVE a husband who makes your happiness a high priority in his life. Right now, he is scrambling to get HIS life back the way it was, but does not seem to be plugging into making himself a better man. He still has excuses (everyone else is more messed up at AA) for not putting his full effort into his own self-improvement, which should be his only priority now...he has given you more grounds for leaving the marriage & I hope it will take a lot before you ever consider reconciling.


----------



## Tiredspouse0297 (Dec 9, 2010)

My husband is always much nicer after I say something about leaving or, finally last week told him how much his criticism hurts me. I don't think he took it seriously since he's still being manipulative but he's kept his mouth shut about some things. After five years together though, I know he'll just do it again the minute I "screw up" and give him some form of ammunition. Sucks, doesn't it? Hugs


----------



## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Julia, you have a lot of the signs of a codependent. “Being” a codependent is as I see it a personality trait. It’s something deep inside of us that “makes” us a codependent.

What is the essence of being a codependent? We fundamentally believe that other people can change for the better if we “help” them to change. We believe that if we have enough understanding, empathy, patience, tolerance, all those nice humanistic qualities, we will help them to change.

In essence a codependent is a “rescuer” and the person we’re codependent with is a prosecutor and a victim. The latter’s main phrase is “You made me do it”. “Look at me, you made me a victim”. And then as a rescuer you will go running in to help … and all you’ll get is more pain for your efforts.

In essence a codependent forgets to look after themselves. By being and doing what they believe to be the right things, understanding, patience, tolerance etc. etc. all they do is open themselves wide open for yet more and more abuse of the person they are. Yes I’ve been there, done that.

The very best way to stop being a codependent? Instead of being tolerant you become INTOLERANT. How do you do that? You build boundaries around yourself with N.U.T.s.

Take a look at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html. Sure it’s a thread for men but works just as well with women.

I was a codependent to the abusive aspects of my wife’s personality. Building my boundaries brought all the abusive to an end very quickly.

Bob


----------



## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Julia, you have a lot of the signs of a codependent. “Being” a codependent is as I see it a personality trait. It’s something deep inside of us that “makes” us a codependent.
> 
> What is the essence of being a codependent? We fundamentally believe that other people can change for the better if we “help” them to change. We believe that if we have enough understanding, empathy, patience, tolerance, all those nice humanistic qualities, we will help them to change.
> 
> ...



My counselor has told me I am codependant - so he has recognized that. It is something I have to work on. It's funny how some of the behaviours I have are codepedant I don't even realize it. I'm going to read the thread you suggest - hopefully I'll learn something 

I want to thank everyone who has replied in my thread. I appreciate that there are so many out there who care, and take the time to respond. I am slowly threading down the path to, hopefully, do what is RIGHT for me and my kids. And what is right for us may hurt my husband deeply, but that may just be how it has to be. I don't know that right now, I just have to keep walking the path and get healthy, truly healthy and worry about ME for once.

I am the child of an alcoholic too, guess I probably learned to be codependant from a very young age.


----------

