# He cheated on summer vacation..should I forgive?



## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

Hi there,
this is my first post and I´m hoping you can give me some insight. I´m not married but I am 27 in a long term relationship and dealing with infidelity issues. I´m on the brink of making a big decision and I really would appreciate some advice.

I´m a Canadian-Italian living in Madrid. A year and a half ago, just two months after moving here I met someone during a weekend in Paris. He was a good looking Italian guy and I really didn´t think it would go anywhere. After meeting me, he did anything he could that weekend to see me again and, upon returning to Madrid he called me everyday and told me he really saw something special in me. I was confused that he got this from two days together but went on talking to him and inevitably fell for him after spending day and night talking to him for 2 months over the phone. Finally, he came to Madrid where we made love immediately and then went for dinner.

At dinner I noticed he had a major wandering eye. Something I did not detect at all in Paris. He was also extremely uneasy the entire date. I noticed that behind closed doors he was an entirely different person, so romantic and enchanting..whereas infront of others he was a complete jerk! The next night he invited me to a birthday party (long story he has friends in Madrid as he´s lived here before). He wound up completely ignoring me at the party and then at the end of the night begged to come home with me. This pattern continued ... he´d be slightly considerate when in public..but also had severe jerk tendencies. I ignored it and wrote it off as a fling, also I was his first relationship... but he had invited me to spend one month with him in Paris as I had a vacation, and while I was there he took me to the south of France and to Italy as a surprise. He opened up much more, told me he was in love with me and we were completely smitten. 

Even though he had made it obvious when he found a woman attractive (checking her out) and was a major flirt..even with a friend of mine in Paris who flirted back with him.. I found alot of this uncomfortable. I expressed it to him and he had a major issue with that and would yell at me.
He made a comment to me that all women in Paris are the best looking in the world and now it´s summer so they are wearing less clothing..etc.. these are the sorts of comments I had to endure. When I asked if he really was ready for a commitment, he assured me he was and that I was "the one".

I put it behind me and focused on the good, trying to understand him. I went home the next month to Canada and gushed to everybody that I had found this incredible guy and I was just too excited.

During this time he took a guy´s trip to Thailand for three weeks with a friend of his. While he was there he called less and less each day. I was really upset about this because I knew something was going on. He was also out until 6am every night. I addressed this over the phone and told him that I was uncomfortable. He screamed at me profusely over the phone and made ME feel guilty for being concerned about it.

The summer passed and I met him back in Paris for a few days..skeptical about seeing him again, I went through with it and he was a completely different guy. He was totally in love with me all over the place. I had told him off after seeing pictures he took of some girls in Thailand. I told him I was done with his stupidity. He went off crying about how he did nothing in Thailand and really loved me. We made love and I found a "cut" on his "thing". I asked what that was and he said oh it was something he did to himself.

We continued doing the back and forth thing from Madrid and Paris..spending hours on skype and seeing each other almost every weekend. He stopped going out on weekends and seemed completely devoted to me. I was really surprised at this change in him but I continued to question what happened in Thailand because I had a really huge hunch something did.

He kept screaming that nothing had happened and how could I think he is such a monster.

It was then his birthday and I decided to organize a surprise party at a friend´s house in paris with all of his good friends. I didn´t know how to get him there, so I just blindfolded him and took him inside. On his way, he tripped and began to scream at me calling me an idiot, stupid, how could I let him slide (he didnt actually fall). He wound up screaming even more infront of his friends calling me a complete idiot. He then said that now he will speak Italian (my Italian is not so good) instead of English and that he doesn´t want to hear English anymore.

I felt so hurt that I went through all of that trouble but tried to make it through the night.

Another month goes by and we had been doing super well in general. he planned a one week trip to cmoe and see me in Madrid and it was now Halloween. My friend had a gathering for the occasion and when he walked into the party, he slapped his friend and pointed out an attractive woman at the party. 

Instead of walking aruond with me getting to know some of my friends, he walked with his single friend getting to know the girls that were there. Later, a girl asked him what he was doing in Madrid, and he explained he was "on vacation" instead of telling her he was visiting his girlfriend. 
a few days later he took the liberty of confessing finally that he had "kissed" another girl in Thailand. The girl was from Paris, and after snooping on his phone (sorry) I discovered that they texted each other in September, she asked him to dinner, he accepted and then a few days later declined. He never wrote her again.

After discovering that he was unfaithful during his vacation, which I already knew deep down and yes, I know he probably did more. I was really upset and changed completely into someone really angry with him. When I tried talking about it to him he was never there. Finally, I decided to end things with him and he did a complete 180. He came flying to Madrid that night and told me he´d do anything for me. Since then he has been incredible. He does everything he should have done to begin with, is constantly calling, constantly seeing me, when he stays with me he buys me food, lingerie, clothes, cleans my apartment... he is always concerned for my wellbeing and constantly tells me how he was such a baby before and has now grown up completely thanks to me. He tells me everyday he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, has taken me to Italy to meet his parents, he has really been 100% all about me.

Recently, however, i discovered that back in early September, he met up with an ex lover behind my back. She was moving from Paris to Vienna and he decided he "needed" to say goodbye to her. When I asked if he told her about me he said no because it was not important. When I asked why he didnt tell me he told me that he did not want to hurt me.

I am really torn..because I am leaving Madrid in the summer and I either take one of two paths.

He has asked that I move in with him in Paris, and as I want to return to Canada to be close to my family (my brother and his wife are having a baby this summer) and also for better career opportunities. 

He is asking his work to be transferred there because he wants to be with me. He is also looking independently for work there.
We both know this will take some time so he suggests I come to Paris for the year and then we go to Toronto together.

My family, on the other hand, does not want to see me go again..let alone for some guy who has not been the best to me.

He wants to come and visit this summer but my brother and father really dont care to meet or know him.

So my question here is, can he really change? Part of me really thinks he can but another holds so much resentment for the past. I am constantly arguing with him about how he could have been so heartless to treat me in such a way before and how he could have done these things, where are his morals, etc..

We have never been closer but everytime we get really close I get so angry about the past. Do you honestly think he could change after all of this and I should risk having a big family drama just for him?

What do you think I should do?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Leave him. You're not married yet, that wandering eye is only gonna get worse when you do marry and the years go by. You don't deserve that and your future kids don't deserve that either.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you know the answer, you just don't want it to be the right answer, so you are reaching out for someone to give you the magical way to change it.

The guy is a wandering player. When you first jet him, he did a pull court press for all of 2 days, and decided you were who he had to be with.

That's his game, and he's played it over and over ,and still is. Es perpetually on the hunt for other woman.

And we both know they did much more than kiss in Thailand.

In public instead of showing you off, he flirts with any woman who is available to flirt with.

The guy is a poor excuse for a player.

He is 100% the kind of guy who would marry you, knock you up, and then demand he needs his private personal tine out of the house. Basically he'd be dating, while you we're home with the kid.

Advice: Run fast from this guy, because his is not marriage or even faithful loving bf material. 

But, I think you already know this, you just want the truth to be different than it isl


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

When you say he is *ACTING *like a *JERK *he is not *ACTING*.....

LOOSE HIM

good luck
the woodchuck


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

You will rue the day you marry him. A lepoard does not change his spots.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

I really think you should go back to Canada on your own 

Meet other guys, you will find one who will treat you a lot better than that "guy" does


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

Thanks guys. I know you´re right. It´s just that he really has changed. I know I sound ridiculous ...like any other typical girl who´s been cheated on, but he wouldn´t dare treat me that way again. He said he just needed to grow up. When I see him or when he calls I just know he is a changed man. Some of my friends have said that a man takes longer than a woman to fall and to open up..agree?

Also, anyone who´s ever met him has said he seems completely enamoured by me. 
But still, I get paranoid ..even when we go to restaurants I notice he is alot more friendly with the young female servers than other servers. I can tell he is the type of guy who needs attention..and although it´s not so common anymore.. I just fear the future. At the same time I really care about him.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry, but this isn't a maturity thing.

It's about

1. empathy, he lacks it. he doesn't pickup that his flirting is hurtful yo you,

2. Respect for you. Again both the flirting, and the cheating show zero respect for you.

3. He's manipulative and at times controlling.

4. In private he's charming and manipulative.

These aren't maturity things, these are fundamental core value things. 

A person who is going to make you happy, should from the start bring that to the party, they shouldn't need to change to become the person you deserve .


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Run.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

"Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option." 
Sorry Señorita, you are just an option for him. It sounds like he is trying to behave better, but I bet that's just until he thinks you're a sure thing again. 
You say he's changed. Please be honest with yourself. Choose the path that's in your best interest. We are giving you our objective opinions based on what you have written. Sadly, we all seem to see an miserable future if you stay with this guy.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

This sounds do convoluted.. I'd suggest ending it. He doesn't sound like a good guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

senoritabonita said:


> Thanks guys. I know you´re right. It´s just that he really has changed. I know I sound ridiculous ...like any other typical girl who´s been cheated on, but he wouldn´t dare treat me that way again. He said he just needed to grow up. When I see him or when he calls I just know he is a changed man. Some of my friends have said that a man takes longer than a woman to fall and to open up..agree?
> 
> Also, anyone who´s ever met him has said he seems completely enamoured by me.
> But still, I get paranoid ..even when we go to restaurants I notice he is alot more friendly with the young female servers than other servers. I can tell he is the type of guy who needs attention..and although it´s not so common anymore.. I just fear the future. At the same time I really care about him.


He has chosen you because you are a woman who will allow him to abuse you and cheat on you.

You only know of a few of the times he cheated on you. Believe me I've known this kind of guy and I know how they operate. He as a girl in every city. Most of them are just players like you. But you are the one good girl he has so he wants you to be his 'steady' or maybe even marry you. But every chance he gets he'll be with another woman.

Go back through your first post. Look at every time he yelled at you, cheated on you, lied to you. A woman who has proper boundaries would have dumped him at the very first time he did one of those things.

Instead you just make excuses for him and you continue the relationship. You are destroying each of your own boundaries one by one so you can keep a man who abuses and uses you.

Why are you doing this? Each time you ignore one of your own boundaries and make an excuse for him, you destroy more of your own self esteem.

If you do not end this relationship you are headed for a life of abuse, being cheated on, being yelled at, being lied to. And one day you will hate him and yourself for this.

Sure he's acting very nice you. As an abusive user he knows that he now has complete control over you. He can be nice to you for now because you are behaving yourself. The next time you start to get some independence and self esteme he will get mean again.

Of course you have no idea how many women he's cheating with now. Be rest assured that he is.. or will every time he is not under your nose.

For your own mental health, end your relationship with this "man".


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Dump now! No, yesterday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> He has chosen you because you are a woman who will allow him to abuse you and cheat on you.
> 
> For your own mental health, end your relationship with this "man".


This is your answer.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He went to Thailand for the cuisine and the art. Yeah. Sure.

Get rid of him. Now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mario Kempes (Jun 12, 2010)

He's a scumbag! Run!!!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You're not the slightest bit paranoid.

You should want a lot better for yourself. This guy is heartache with a capital H. It will never end. You should cut your losses now. Really.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

I really want to thank everyone for their messages. I just would like to point out that all of this was last year. He has been a different person since October, and I have not been behaving in the slightest. In fact, I have grown very strong and I all too often remind him of what he's done. I don't want to be this person but in no way have I "tolerated" cheating..or allowed him to do it. I have put my foot down. I took him back because it was the beginning of the relationship when he did this and I knew he would change.. but constantly I question if anyone ever can. I mean, if you have it inside of you to treat someone with such disrespect to begin with, how can you just become another person ...just like that!
I also forgave him because an ex I had for five years told me once that my big problem was that I can't forgive. But I realize maybe that is something about me that will never change.. I would have never dreamed of touching another man.

Everytime I try to end it with him he really causes a big dramatic scene and calls me selfish and heartless. I then feel guilted into staying.. but also I really will miss him *despite wrongdoings*..there's something that keeps me going back to him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He probably cheated before the vacation and after it, too.

Why did he go to Thailand? For Phuket. Apparently there are some interesting sites/sights, there...

He is a player. Get rid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

lol well, he did not go to Phuket but that´s beside the point..


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

Do you really want a life worrying about STD's?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

In the very early stages of dating he's shown you exactly who he is. What more is there to know - other than it's time to move on?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> I really want to thank everyone for their messages. I just would like to point out that all of this was last year. He has been a different person since October, and I have not been behaving in the slightest. In fact, I have grown very strong and I all too often remind him of what he's done. I don't want to be this person but in no way have I "tolerated" cheating..or allowed him to do it. I have put my foot down. I took him back because it was the beginning of the relationship when he did this and I knew he would change.. but constantly I question if anyone ever can. I mean, if you have it inside of you to treat someone with such disrespect to begin with, how can you just become another person ...just like that!
> I also forgave him because an ex I had for five years told me once that my big problem was that I can't forgive. But I realize maybe that is something about me that will never change.. I would have never dreamed of touching another man.
> 
> Everytime I try to end it with him he really causes a big dramatic scene and calls me selfish and heartless. I then feel guilted into staying.. but also I really will miss him *despite wrongdoings*..there's something that keeps me going back to him.


You are being controlled by him. 

If you would like your life to be like this for good, then go ahead - marry him. Have children.

He will "need" his freedom. It will all be a big drama. He will lapse again. That will be the last time. He couldn't understand how he could cheat on a woman he loves so much.

He will beg. Plead.

Then, he'll do it again.

You will one day either leave him, or just shrug your shoulders, raise your eyes to the sky and thank whatever Gods there are that he comes back to you every time.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

If for whatever reason you were to get married, this behavior worsens. I know, I experienced it myself and my ex h is a serial cheater that never gave it up. 19 years have passed and he still cheats.

This guy isn't into you. In fact he's using you for sex. I don't see this relationship going anywhere. There's so much more to a man then his looks. This guy is extremely selfish, lose him.

This man hasn't changed. He's showing you who he is. If he's this bad now, I can guarantee he's behavior is much worse then you think it is. You really don't know a person until you've lived with them a while.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Why don't you want to find a man who won't cheat on you


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Maybe you like being the victim?


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

I definitely am not enjoying being a victim of any sort. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me and I don't even feel sorry for myself. Alliim asking is is it possible to give someone the benefit of the doubt and believe they can change? He knows, if he comes to Canada this summer that he's going to be confronted by two large men (my brother and father) yet he still wants to come. Could there be a slight chance he has fallen in love and realized his mistakes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

You know the answer.

Let's say there's a 10% chance he will reform (personally, I believe there is a 0% chance, but I'm a realist).

Do you want that 90% chance that we won't?

Big brothers, implied threats blah blah blah don't work as cheater's don't think they will get caught - just like burglars don't. That's why they do it.

You clearly want us to say he might change and go ahead your life will be wonderful.

We won't, because it won't.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

He isn't gonna change, he has no reason too

He can have you and any other women he wants


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

Well, any of us could have our share of men or women. That is simply not a reason to cheat and doesn´t give explanation for why he would. I´m often compared to Angelina Jolie and you don´t see me going off with any man who looks my way.


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

senoritabonita said:


> I´m often compared to Angelina Jolie and you don´t see me going off with any man who looks my way.


How you look very rarely determines how you behave.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

But if he had really wanted to make a go of it with you he wouldn't have already cheated 

How is your sex life with him, does he have a high drive


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Why do you think he cheated then?


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

Yes and no. I mean there have been times, especially in the beginning of the relationship, where he had issues staying hard and all. But he has severe problems with his thyroids. Now that happens maybe 10% of the time.

We have sex on average once a day when we´re together. Sometimes twice. He cannot imagine being able to have sex four times a day or anything like that because apparently he could never do that. Sometimes he really wants it, sometimes he wants it but is also just as happy to cuddle.
He also is quite a lazy lover if you catch my drift..and not experimental at all. He can´t imagine having sex outside of the bedroom although I´ve had to make this happen a few times. I´ve dressed up, initiated sex on a mountaintop, put porn on the computer, etc etc.. but he doesn´t give much effort because it´s just not in his personality. He´s a very serious, uptight person. I can´t imagine him being charming with women to be honest. He is flirtatious in an extremely immature way, which, when I have told him he was flirting, he completely denies.

All in all, I can´t say he´s been the best, but our bodies do have chemistry. He says that I am the best he´s ever had..connection and all.. but that sort of comment is predictable isn´t it.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Your comments are contradictory. You "can't imagine him being charming with other women" - but he clearly is.

You sound like such a decent person, but you have a blind spot for this man.

I guess it's something you see a lot so you aren't unique by a long chalk.

Try re reading your posts but pretend they were from someone else.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> Why do you think he cheated then?


Look, I totally agree with everyone on here and I know he´s a selfish jerk who has lied completely to me. Sometimes I feel like he doesn´t understand love or anything.. i´ve really tried to figure out his reasons for cheating since he "can´t explain it" and "regrets it". But recently he´s blamed it on the distance. I was in Canada at the time and I didn´t even look at another guy, which I know is healthy but had no desire to. 

I can´t explain why anyone cheats, but can they stop? I´ve time and time again asked him if it´s because I´m not the one perhaps, or he was not interested that he had the need to look elsewhere but he just says he was stupid and selfish and that he could never find someone like me again and he made the biggest mistake of his life..blah blah blah...heard it all before..

Just so you know I´m not on here to defend him and I appreciate everyone´s advice!!


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

I think the problem is that he says he can't explain it, he is not being honest with himself or you


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> Look, I totally agree with everyone on here and I know he´s a selfish jerk who has lied completely to me. Sometimes I feel like he doesn´t understand love or anything.. i´ve really tried to figure out his reasons for cheating since he "can´t explain it" and "regrets it". But recently he´s blamed it on the distance. I was in Canada at the time and I didn´t even look at another guy, which I know is healthy but had no desire to.
> 
> I can´t explain why anyone cheats, but can they stop? I´ve time and time again asked him if it´s because I´m not the one perhaps, or he was not interested that he had the need to look elsewhere but he just says he was stupid and selfish and that he could never find someone like me again and he made the biggest mistake of his life..blah blah blah...heard it all before..
> 
> Just so you know I´m not on here to defend him and I appreciate everyone´s advice!!


I think your heart thinks one thing and your head, another.

If you cast your lot in with him, you are headed for trouble and I think you know it - but you don't want the pain of separation from someone you connect with.

I was betrayed after a 20 year marriage. The pain was and is unbelievable. It's physical and emotional. Our children have been affected in a bad way. Our lives are both pretty much wrecked and we are going to have to rebuild from square one - from before that in a way.

You know that, if you take this "man" on, you have a good chance of the scenario happening to you.

People on here have heard "it all" before and can see the script being written for you. It's like watching a very slow train wreck; a play unfold in front of you that you cannot change the script of.

I hope you make the right choice. You need to stack the odds in your favour - don't begin this journey with a deck heavily stacked against you.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I think the problem is that he says he can't explain it, he is not being honest with himself or you


Exactly. And I have tried time and again to ask for honesty and truth and he tells me he´s told me everything and there isn´t more to say. Even about his ex that he met in September behind my back.. it was her last night in Paris and they only had a history of being lovers. I´d be stupid to believe nothing happened there but he´s screamed at me time and time again about it saying that nothing happened and I just need to accept the past and move on. 
Lately he continues to say all he wants is a normal relationship and that I have to move on from the past.
But how can I do that if all I´m getting is half of the truth..

I think alot of my being so ridiculous and naive is based on the fact that I´m far from home, out of my element, etc.. He´s become family for me here, unfortunately.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

senoritabonita said:


> Exactly. And I have tried time and again to ask for honesty and truth and he tells me he´s told me everything and there isn´t more to say. Even about his ex that he met in September behind my back.. it was her last night in Paris and they only had a history of being lovers. I´d be stupid to believe nothing happened there but he´s screamed at me time and time again about it saying that nothing happened and I just need to accept the past and move on.
> Lately he continues to say all he wants is a normal relationship and that I have to move on from the past.
> But how can I do that if all I´m getting is half of the truth..
> 
> I think alot of my being so ridiculous and naive is based on the fact that I´m far from home, out of my element, etc.. He´s become family for me here, unfortunately.


I think you should do what I said before, go back to Canada on your own and agree not to contact each other for a set amount of time

You might have more clarity back with your family in your own country


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> I think your heart thinks one thing and your head, another.
> 
> I agree, aren´t we all "back and forth" after being cheated on?
> I read your story and it is heartbreaking to say the least. I´m really sorry to hear you have to experience it. Half of the stories on here really made me think that if we are having problems now.. how can we possibly deal with the future?
> ...


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> ...he did anything he could to see me and called me everyday and told me he really saw something special in me.
> ...I noticed that behind closed doors he was an entirely different person, so romantic and enchanting
> ... infront of others he was a complete jerk!
> ...He wound up completely ignoring me at the party and then at the end of the night begged to come home with me.
> ...


You will buy anything this douche sells. One minute he's prince charming, the next minute his true colors shine through. 

You actually believe he has changed? If you stay with this a-hole, you are in for a world of hurt.

This guy is a complete fraud. He is a liar, a cheat, and a really bad actor. You KNOW his bad behavior will always come back...you just came here hoping someone would tell you that he may change one day.

*He will never change*. He will continue to hurt you, you will want out, and then he will rope you back in.

You are the rabbit, he is the farmer with the carrot on the string. The Jekyll and Hyde thing is fake...he is only the monster, you just want to believe he is this dreamy good guy.

Leave this dude for good...sever all ties, once and for all time.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Go ahead and marry the guy. We could use another lifetime member here.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You may not realize it but many of people giving you advice here have been right where you are at now in your life. They've been dating a person who did what your bf has done, acted in similar ways, and had similar concerns.

They didnt listen to those red flags and they proceeded ahead following what they wanted to be and ignoring what really was.

Then down the road they've found out that the other person didn't reform, change, transform like in the fairy tale. Instead they discover they are married to a person who has cheated on them, sometimes their entire marriage.

People don't switch who they are unless they under go some radical force. Soldiers do change in war. People who have been betrayed and cheated on will change.

Trouble, is he hasn't encountered such life changing events. 

The person you marry doesn't need to be perfect.

But the person you marry shouldn't need major changes to become a good partner. This guy is in need of major changes- empathy, kindness, respect for YOU, compassion. I see all of these things missing.

And he's guilting you to stay in the relationship? RUN on that alone.

You do not want to have a kid or two and discover that he's cheating on you and lying to you.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

senoritabonita said:


> I definitely am not enjoying being a victim of any sort. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me and I don't even feel sorry for myself. Alliim asking is is it possible to give someone the benefit of the doubt and believe they can change? He knows, if he comes to Canada this summer that he's going to be confronted by two large men (my brother and father) yet he still wants to come. Could there be a slight chance he has fallen in love and realized his mistakes?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Anyone who yells at you like that isn't a good choice in a mate. You've given him the benefit of the doubt many, many times and yet you are still on an infidelity forum looking for comments.

I realize it may be really hard to give him up but I think that's exactly what you should do.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Many people come here in the hopes that they will hear what they want to hear. You want to hear that you can give him the benefit of the doubt and that people can change.

You definitely can give him the benefit of the doubt. You are free to do that, of course.

People do change, in my opinion.

That being said, he will not change. He is a serial cheat. Look up the term. Look at the personality characteristics. He lies to you and is still lying. You don't know even a small fraction of what he has done while you were not around. Not a fraction. If you had the real truth, you would run like the wind because it would immediately alter your feelings for him.

Human nature is predictable in that we all behave within a certain range of behaviors. Is there a single commenter on this thread who thinks your bf isn't an inveterate cheater and liar? No, because the way he behaves fits a timeworn pattern.

If you don't move on from him, you will be betrayed and hurt over and over again. You can take that to the bank.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

senoritabonita said:


> Yes and no. I mean there have been times, especially in the beginning of the relationship, where he had issues staying hard and all. But he has severe problems with his thyroids. Now that happens maybe 10% of the time.
> 
> We have sex on average once a day when we´re together. Sometimes twice. He cannot imagine being able to have sex four times a day or anything like that because apparently he could never do that. Sometimes he really wants it, sometimes he wants it but is also just as happy to cuddle.
> He also is quite a lazy lover if you catch my drift..and not experimental at all. He can´t imagine having sex outside of the bedroom although I´ve had to make this happen a few times. I´ve dressed up, initiated sex on a mountaintop, put porn on the computer, etc etc.. but he doesn´t give much effort because it´s just not in his personality. He´s a very serious, uptight person. I can´t imagine him being charming with women to be honest. He is flirtatious in an extremely immature way, which, when I have told him he was flirting, he completely denies.
> ...


Lemme get this straight...

You: Dream girl who looks like Angelina Jolie, initiates sex, wants to watch porn, devoted woman who forgives her boyfriend over and over again.

Him: Immature, lazy lover who isn't good in bed, cheated on you, looks around the room at other women, screams and you and calls you an idiot in front of people, but says he'll change.


Do you realize just how many guys that are WAY better than this one, would crawl over hot coals to call you their man?

What the heck are you doing? Please get some self esteem and find a real man. I'm sure you'll have plenty of callers...


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

"He cheated on summer vacation..should I forgive?"

I wouldn't, but thats me.

Or more accurately, I could forgive, but I'd still leave just the same.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The purpose of dating prior to marriage is to discern whether or not this person is a suitable marital partner and suitable child rearing partner.... You really don't give a boyfriend the "benefit of the doubt".... Becuase your relationship achieved it's purpose (to show you who you are considering marrying)... Now that you see what he is capable of, do you want to marry and have a child with this man? Love is not enough in marriage. It has to be grounded in a good choice.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

And by the way, people put their best foot forward in the dating stage.... You can take that to the bank too.


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## Red2 (Apr 28, 2013)

People don't FUNDAMENTALLY change. I can give up chocolate for a while to lose weight but eventually I am going to want to eat chocolate again.... PLEASE PLEASE listen to the more experienced people here. It'll save you a lot of heartache in the future.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Hicks said:


> The purpose of dating prior to marriage is to discern whether or not this person is a suitable marital partner and suitable child rearing partner.... You really don't give a boyfriend the "benefit of the doubt".... Becuase your relationship achieved it's purpose (to show you who you are considering marrying)... Now that you see what he is capable of, do you want to marry and have a child with this man? Love is not enough in marriage. It has to be grounded in a good choice.


:iagree:

Great post, Hicks.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Gabriel said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Great post, Hicks.


Certainly. He failed the test. That's all.


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## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

Wow I hate to be blunt but you like to be lied to, yelled at and belittled? 

Why is it even an option to stay with him? Erase his number and move. Don't tell him were you are going.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

yes I´ve been told to do that in the past (move and not tell him)
but I could not do that to him. Despite his misbehaviours, I know he does have a heart and that me leaving him would kill him. 

I´ve been trying to lay low lately and not have any of our "discussions" about the past and future but last night he was really upset about work and the fact that we hadn´t discussed the future. When I told him that I don´t know if moving in is the best idea right now and maybe I should just move into my own place in Paris for the time being, he flipped out saying that I am being really ridiculous and my indecisiveness is hindering his life.

I feel so guilty for it all. On one hand I do love him, on the other, yes, I know I deserve better and I do want better. But we have such a close bond and friendship that I just can´t let go of. 

Is it really fair to hold on to the past like this?

I can be annoying as well, I haven´t once let him forget what he´s done.  

I have a friend (who is in a fab relationship with a great guy) she tells me constantly that I need to be patient with him and that he is in love with me now so who cares about the past. Her words about him meeting his ex were "who is he vacationing with now, who is he flying to see, who is he calling? YOU ..so stop it!"
she also tells me always to move on from Thailand and not mention it.
She always justifies his behaviour and says that guys take longer to fall in love, he doesn´t like when I ask him questions so leave him alone, etc.. this sort of advice makes everything all the more confusing.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

My view is if you want to give him more time, give him more time.
But don't live with him... Let him continue to prove who he is. Living together is a big mistake.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> he flipped out saying that I am being really ridiculous and my indecisiveness is hindering his life.
> 
> I feel so guilty for it all. On one hand I do love him, on the other, yes, I know I deserve better and I do want better. But we have such a close bond and friendship that I just can´t let go of.
> 
> Is it really fair to hold on to the past like this?


Your indecisiveness is "hindering his life".

Oh dear.

He really has you doesn't he?

Perhaps you need to make your own mistakes to learn the lessons.

Is it "fair" to "hold onto the past".

What is "fair"? 

Perhaps, when he cheats at every opportunity you will forgive him as it will always be "in the past". Ergo: no problem.

What a dangerous world we would live in if contemptuous behaviour could not be used to help make a judgement of someone's character.

*Burglar*: "But Judge, it's in the _past_. You need to move on. I won't do it again."

*Judge*: "You know, you're _right._ That wouldn't be fair. Off you go! You also said you wouldn't do it again - so where's the harm? NEXT!"


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> I have a friend (who is in a fab relationship with a great guy) she tells me constantly that I need to be patient with him and that he is in love with me now so who cares about the past. Her words about him meeting his ex were "who is he vacationing with now, who is he flying to see, who is he calling? YOU ..so stop it!"
> she also tells me always to move on from Thailand and not mention it.
> She always justifies his behaviour and says that guys take longer to fall in love, he doesn´t like when I ask him questions so leave him alone, etc.. this sort of advice makes everything all the more confusing.


Sorry for double post; I just re read the last paragraph.

You sound very like my 16 year old daughter. I'm sorry, but I think you might need this so that you learn a rather harsh lesson about life.

Just do us all a favour? Don't have children with this lying, controlling, cheat. At least only your life will be affected when it goes wrong.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

haha I don´t think he knows of the term "hindrance" as English is his third language. I just phrased it that way. 
I know he is using guilt as a way to keep me around.

I totally agree with you though, I even tell my friend this. What if the ex who moved to vienna still lived in Paris? He´d still be seeing her? 
If my friend were going through the same thing I doubt she´d stand for it. I don´t know why she thinks I should.

How do I end it without a big dramatic scene?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

You are going to get a dramatic scene. That's what he does. He feeds off of it and he has probably learned that he gets his own way all through his life by using drama. 

He is hard wired to cause a scene as he is always rewarded when he makes one.

The only way is to go when he isn't there. Leave a letter. Email. Whatever. He cannot be there when you go and you can't tell him of your decision.

If it's any consolation, my ex wife is precisely the same. Big drama, hysterics. Stopping at nothing to make me stay. The only way I can leave is setting everything up beforehand and disappearing. My complication is the children, but you do not have that -ahem- hindrance.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

I don´t know, I don´t think I can do that. I don´t have the heart to just leave him with a note or email.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Chris989 said:


> You are going to get a dramatic scene. That's what he does. He feeds off of it and he has probably learned that he gets his own way all through his life by using drama.
> 
> He is hard wired to cause a scene as he is always rewarded when he makes one.


EXACTLY. It gets him out of trouble too. He's learned it works on you. Look, sometimes love just isn't enough. If some horrible woman loved me, do I have to marry her? Not saying this guy is horrible, but he sure isn't a great guy. 

Don't let his love/infatuation/fear/etc trap you. It's toxic and controlling.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

He's found out how to manipulate you and push your buttons.

You sound very like you fear confrontation and his enotional outbursts, so you walk on eggshells so as to not set him off.

These are very very bad signs. He's emotionally bullying you to stick around and do things his way. When you don't move fast enough or in the right way he brings out the charm or alternately the emotions, depending on which on he feels will get you to cave the easiest.

Seriously, this guy is not a build a life long mutually respectful and loving relationship type of guy.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

You´re right about the emotional manipulation. He mastered crying after Thailand and has not stopped since each time he is confronted.

No I do not walk around eggshells, I argue with him almost everyday. I have no problem confronting him and have been since I discovered the cheating. This is why we argue. If I mention something is bothering me he has outburts and turns it around to be my fault. Example: I discovered he had been out with his ex lover in Sept and I told him immediately that I saw it on his skype and, instead of being mad at me for snooping, he screamed at me all through the streets of Paris for making it into a big deal.
How could I not?
I still talk about it because to me he seems sorry for none of this.

So, I disagree about me walking on eggshells. I just don´t want to trap myself into a big scene. Do you think, if I approach the topic in a calm, adult manner, he will still go nuts?
Because I am a very passionate person and I feel so much from this relationship, I have not been the best at being calm when approaching topics...


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Senorita - so far you have argued with every single person who has told you to leave him.

You know what you should do - but you don't want to do it.

So do what YOU want to do. Marry him.

He won't change. I guarantee he will cheat on you and make you miserable.

I give it a year.


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## BruisedGirl (Apr 4, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Why are you doing this? Each time you ignore one of your own boundaries and make an excuse for him, you destroy more of your own self esteem.


This is SO true.


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## BruisedGirl (Apr 4, 2013)

senoritabonita said:


> If I mention something is bothering me he has outburts and turns it around to be my fault.


This part will NEVER change with this type of guy.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

I´m really not arguing with anyone. I agree with everyone and welcome your responses. Right now I´m simply asking for advice on how to end things in a non-dramatic, civilized manner.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

Honestly? I'd just go. Write him a Dear John, change your number, and go.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

The ideal would be, you look him in the eye, tell it "it just can't work, it's not me - it's you".

He nods. "I realise now. I love you enough to know I have to let you go".

Curtain closes, lights up, music swells.

In real life you know that simply cannot happen. He will go dramatic. Why? The very fact that you "can't leave" means that it works for him.

He gets a crazyily amazing woman, beautiful, wants sex, fun to be around, doesn't mind him having sex with other women - you know - _you._

All he has to do is control you with drama. Sounds like a good deal to me - for a douche.


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

Hey, I resent that!! 
I do not like him having sex with other women!! lol

Ok I´ll see what happens this weekend. Keep you posted on my pathetic situation!!!!!!!


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> Hey, I resent that!!
> I do not like him having sex with other women!! lol
> 
> Ok I´ll see what happens this weekend. Keep you posted on my pathetic situation!!!!!!!


You get my point 

Your situation is not pathetic. 

It took me probably 9 months to "get it" and I am 44 years old, been around the block, had my eyes thoroughly opened etc.

Don't beat yourself up about taking time to do the right thing - provided you _*aim*_ to do the right thing and, eventually, _*do it*._


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> yes I´ve been told to do that in the past (move and not tell him)
> but I could not do that to him. Despite his misbehaviours, I know he does have a heart and that me leaving him would kill him.


Yes, you've been advised this over and over, but you don't heed sensible methods. You must be a gluten for his drama.

And NO, it won't kill him. BTW, think of yourself for a minute, not him...you want to be dealing with this crap for the rest of your life? 



senoritabonita said:


> I´ve been trying to lay low lately and not have any of our "discussions" about the past and future but last night he was really upset about work and the fact that we hadn´t discussed the future. When I told him that I don´t know if moving in is the best idea right now and maybe I should just move into my own place in Paris for the time being, he flipped out saying that I am being really ridiculous and my indecisiveness is hindering his life.


You are hindering his life now too? Do you think that's true? Are you buying his B.S? Can't you see this is just more of the same tactics?



senoritabonita said:


> I feel so guilty for it all. On one hand I do love him, on the other, yes, I know I deserve better and I do want better. But we have such a close bond and friendship that I just can´t let go of.


Why would you feel guilty about anything? *YOU* have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. Do you see what has happened here?

There is no close bond or friendship...friends don't do that to friends. He's a douche and you are gullible.

Do you really know that you deserve better? I mean, I know you do, just reading this thread, but do you? If you do, then realize that only YOU can do something about that. He can't help you, he can only keep you down. It's up to you to pursue the life you deserve.



senoritabonita said:


> Is it really fair to hold on to the past like this?


Yes, of course it is. He has proven WAY too many times who he really is. Right now his is trying to wear the mask that he thinks you want to see, but it's all fake, as proven by him guilting you and blaming you for hindering his life. 



senoritabonita said:


> I can be annoying as well, I haven´t once let him forget what he´s done.


Everyone can be annoying from time to time. So what? 

And you shouldn't let him forget what he did. You know that he's not really a changed man, but he wants you to let all his past indiscretions go RIGHT NOW and move in with him. WHY WON'T YOU DO THAT? 
And if you did do that, it wouldn't be long before he returns to his normal behavior (because the fake persona you are seeing now is not the reality, it's just what he wants you to see/thinks you will believe).



senoritabonita said:


> I have a friend (who is in a fab relationship with a great guy) she tells me constantly that I need to be patient with him and that he is in love with me now so who cares about the past. Her words about him meeting his ex were "who is he vacationing with now, who is he flying to see, who is he calling? YOU ..so stop it!"
> she also tells me always to move on from Thailand and not mention it.
> She always justifies his behaviour and says that guys take longer to fall in love, he doesn´t like when I ask him questions so leave him alone, etc.. this sort of advice makes everything all the more confusing.


Your friend is telling you what she knows you want to hear. She's not helping you, she's just trying to make you feel better. She's actually probably sick of hearing about it.

Patient? That's really open-ended isn't it?? Ya, when he's ready to settle down, however long if EVER that happens.

Ya, forget cheating with the ex, forget cheating in Thailand, *and forget every party that he ditches and humiliates you so he can flirt with other women*. Forget that, until it happens again.....and then forget that too. And on the next guys-weekend in Thailand or Bali, forget about what he is going to do there. 

Forget it all, because it couldn't possibly be an indicator of his real behavior or who he really is. Na, let it all go because you are killing the poor guy. Don't ask him any questions, just eat up all the B.S he whispers in bed.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> I´m really not arguing with anyone. I agree with everyone and welcome your responses. Right now I´m simply asking for advice on how to end things in a non-dramatic, civilized manner.





Robsia said:


> Honestly? I'd just go. Write him a Dear John, change your number, and go.


:iagree:


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

tulsy said:


> Yes, you've been advised this over and over, but you don't heed sensible methods. You must be a gluten for his drama.
> 
> And NO, it won't kill him. BTW, think of yourself for a minute, not him...you want to be dealing with this crap for the rest of your life?
> 
> ...




Tulsy I really enjoyed your response. In fact, this site has really helped me see alot of things I have been blind to.

Just to say, I really did not want to hear what my friend was telling me, and we barely speak about it because she never asks about it. But when we do, that´s the type of advice she gives me. One time, my beloved man was staying at my place and he hid his phone inside his luggage one night. I could not believe he did that and when I told her she was like "oh my gosh poor guy look at what you did to him".
Is that not irrational advice? 
If anything he should be throwing his phone in my face and showing me what´s on there instead of hiding it. Before this I was in a wonderful five year relationship with an incredible guy (we broke up due to distance-I moved- and now he´s with someone else so forget that)
Point is, I never looked through his phone, not once. I don´t even remember him using it much either. 

I hate how some people have made me feel like a monster when all I want is an honest and moral, loving relationship!


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

senoritabonita said:


> I hate how some people have made me feel like a monster when all I want is an honest and moral, loving relationship!


You're not the monster. But you won't get your honest and moral, loving relationship with this man.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> I hate how some people have made me feel like a monster when all I want is an honest and moral, loving relationship!


You sound like a thoroughly decent woman who is a little naive and does not like to think she is making someone else feel bad.

No one can make you feel like a monster - only you can in the way you react to their manipulation or poor "advice".

You cannot change somebody else. You can only change yourself in the way that you react to the controlling behaviour of others and the time to begin that change is probably now.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

senoritabonita said:


> ... One time, my beloved man was staying at my place and he hid his phone inside his luggage one night. I could not believe he did that and when I told her she was like "oh my gosh poor guy look at what you did to him".
> Is that not irrational advice? ...


Ya, no offense, but *your friend is an idiot*. What kind of a "friend" would blame YOU for that? 

You really need this fool for a friend? Someone to help him blame you for what you are doing to him? What is wrong with her??

A real friend would see those red-flags and want you to get away from this a-hole.

If he's hiding his phone, it's because he has something to hide, ie: other females. *100%, no doubt about that*. Another stellar quality to add to the list.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm a man and konw men like this. They never change, they just try to hide it. Then years later you'll find out anyway, because nobody's THAT good at it, and besides, you're already (rightfully) suspicious of his behavior, so you'll have to keep an eye open on him ALL THE TIME. 

If all you want is a loving, honest relationship, I mark him FAILED already.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

As I said in my first post.

I think you are aware of the truth here and the right answer. You just don't want to do it.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> As I said in my first post.
> 
> I think you are aware of the truth here and the right answer. You just don't want to do it.


I think she's there. Just trying to do it gently.


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## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

Why do you really think he hid the phone???? 
All my email accounts ,phones ,whatever are always open for my wife and the same goes for her. 

It is not called snopping when you trust each other. But when you hide stuff from the other person really begs to question their behavior


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## senoritabonita (May 27, 2013)

sirdano said:


> Why do you really think he hid the phone????
> All my email accounts ,phones ,whatever are always open for my wife and the same goes for her.
> 
> It is not called snopping when you trust each other. But when you hide stuff from the other person really begs to question their behavior



I agree completely. He always takes his phone into the bathroom and shower with him too. I asked him why he hid the phone in his luggage and he said he had no room on the table. (Obviously just an excuse). I never found anything juicy enough on his phone other than the texts from the Thailand girl. I know alot of his convos with the ex lover were on facebook and he signs out of the application on his phone everytime he sees me now.
I threatened to message her on facebook as I know her name and he was so scared he said "not if I write to her first".
I told him I wouldn´t do it and to relax. 

Then, the other day he told me that he wrote to her and told her that he has had a girlfriend since feb 2012 and that he should have told her and they have no reason to stay in contact.
Part of me wonders if he messaged her just to get me to shutup.

Another thing, and I know this is petty but it was a test. After we celebrated our one year together I asked why we were not in a relationship on facebook...why there were no signs of me on his page. He argued with me all weekend about how facebook was a fake world and that it should be enough that we are currently together. 
After three days he posted our relationship, but why did that have to be a chore? I even felt guilty when he did it for making it such an issue. These feelings are not normal.
Sigh. I am spending the weekend with him so I´m just going to be strong.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Did you happen to read any other thread on this forum?

It would answer all you questions.

Unless you like to live in your own soap drama, quit.

(and start reading to wise up)


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Guy argued with you about changing his FB status to relationship.

Really? And you don't see that as a huge red flag?

Seriously, if he WAS committed to you he would have done it without hesitation or worry. He definitely wouldn't have made the slightest issue out if it.

You need to see this guy for what he is, an insincere leech. He's also the guy who's preventing you from now meeting the guy who will be the guy for you. Each day wasted with him, is a day your not with a much better nicer guy.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Did you happen to read any other thread on this forum?
> 
> It would answer all you questions.
> 
> ...





senoritabonita said:


> ....
> Sigh. I am spending the weekend with him so I´m just going to be strong.




You're gonna spend the weekend with him?? Why? What's wrong with you?

You must love the drama. At this point you are asking for it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You have to choose wisely in the game of mArriage. Love and attraction are critical but they are not the only thing. You love being pursued, loved, have fun etc... He's good looking with a good job... But the basic morals are just not there.... Any man who hides his phone is not a keeper. There is only 1 reason to hide a phone. It's because there is something on it he does not want you to see. Please.... Don't become a statistic.


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