# Need suggestions on how to build husbands sexual confidence.



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Husband and I have just gotten through another sexual low point and are again trying to work on our sexual relationship.

For those not familiar with my backstory I have a history of being non orgasmic with H. We hit a point this past March when the sex became (emotionally) unbearable for me (as it was repetitious an involved no oral or other stimulation for me). Believe it or not there had never been a single conversation in 18 years about sexual satisfaction (or not.) This was all news to H.

We had a brief period of success during the summer in which H was able to bring me off. I also put in 6 months of IC to deal with my own body image issues and sexual history (which involved an eating disorder and strict religious upbringing.) This time of success passed due to anxiety on my part and then he seemed to lose interest.

H no longer believes he can bring me off and the attempts seem half hearted. I have not been letting this go on too long before moving on to PIV. However - we did have a big blow out recently over this issue. Cleared the air and agreed to give it another go. I have been thinking of asking him to try a few new things that might be successful and trying to get to a better place again.

I need help with phrasing and attitude with how to bring this about without making him feel like a failure or like I'm talking down to him. 

I have realized that I'm really fine and okay not having O (in a given session) and don't expect to have it every time. Sometimes I just want intercourse, I don't want to mess around with anything else. When I first came to this board I was under the impression that if I got the orgasms rolling they would just naturally happen all the time. I am no longer under this impression and I am at peace with it - but I feel it's important for H to have a measure of success. His confidence has taken a beating with all of this, understandably.

On my last thread it was suggested that I need to have a better attitude and I agree. If I'm lying there thinking 'I can't, I can't, it's not going to happen' then it's not going to happen. I do need to be more optimistic.

I have been reading on sexual intimacy (thank you Faithful Wife). It is helpful. Not surprisingly the orgasm issue was just the tip of an intimacy issue. The intimacy is my true goal now and not the orgasm. But still, I need some way to make sex be a confidence booster for H. 

Thanks to Working On Me for a post that really stuck with me. Men don't want pity or to be given false compliments or for women to guard their feelings. They want to be sex gods. They want to be wanted and know they can make us get there for real.

So - there are things I need to work on. Looking back over the past year I can see that I have changed a great deal already but I am still not where I want to be with this. Obviously. I can't believe how much I have dwelled on if we should even stay married. I'm weary of this issue. However, its the only part of my marriage that I am weary of. (But of course sex is no small thing.)There are many other good, even wonderful parts of him and of our marriage. We have been able to overcome and to change on other issues. It's not out of the question that we can get out of this cycle. (We are both 44, married 18 years, two teenagers.)

Suggestions, feedback?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

In light of this...



MissScarlett said:


> Thanks to Working On Me for a post that really stuck with me. Men don't want pity or to be given false compliments or for women to guard their feelings. They want to be sex gods. They want to be wanted and know they can make us get there for real.


Might I suggest that you not worry about building his confidence since that's what took you so long to get here in the first place?

Look at it like this... We all like to have our back scratched, sometimes hard, sometimes soft. The person who give the best back scratches is the person who can accurately interpret those subtle signals that say ooohhhhh and ahhhh. If you're scratching near my shoulder blade and I need it lower or higher, I might move my body in that direction. A good back scratcher will notice that and make adjustments. However, when the scratcher gets to the point where it itches soooo baaaad, I usually yell something THERE Ah Yes right there, keep going!!!! With great gusto that hopefully matches the furver he puts into scratching. 

Sex is very similar but less subtle.

In other words, if he doesn't put the work into it, and doesn't make you feel like he wants this too, call a halt to it. He needs both negative and positive feedback. He needs to know that a lack luster attempt will not be praised and full throttle attempt will be meet with hero worship.

That's my opinion.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

What strips a mans sexual confidence if he had it would be:

1. Rejection
2. Not feeling attraction from their mate
3. Criticism, especially in the heat of sex intercourse
4. Lack of confidence from the sex partner.

Still it sounds like he needs to build up some skills and you can allow your husband to become more attractive to you, and when he feels that his sexual confidence will raise.

Let him lead, he will build up confidence this way.

Also some times take it from him as if you desire it and show your passions.



MissScarlett said:


> Husband and I have just gotten through another sexual low point and are again trying to work on our sexual relationship.
> 
> For those not familiar with my backstory I have a history of being non orgasmic with H. We hit a point this past March when the sex became (emotionally) unbearable for me (as it was repetitious an involved no oral or other stimulation for me). Believe it or not there had never been a single conversation in 18 years about sexual satisfaction (or not.) This was all news to H.
> 
> ...


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

To be more blunt he is touching me way, way too lightly to get anything going. Almost as if he didn't want to get his fingers dirty. This then triggered my long-held belief that he has an aversion to my genitals. Hmm, I don't care for that word. In any case. He outright denies these charges. So how to start over again with direction on the correct technique. This is a larger problem than giving positive feedback when he does something correctly - because he doesn't seem to get around to it. Yes, I have asked nicely, press hard - three copies!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

One thing I noticed is that it is all about you and your O. What about him?

You should each be responsible for your own pleasure. It sounds like you are doing a good job on your side of it. Some therapy for issues, and you are working with him to learn how to get you to O. 

But he is lost here. He, it seems, is too focused on you. He should be selfish in bed. Not in a bad way of ignoring you, but he should be sure he is getting his needs taken care of. Like eating a meal, he needs to be sure he is getting his portion. If he needs help from you, he should ask for it. If you need something from him, ask for it.

It sounds like there is a lot of pressure to perform on both of you. If you don't O, he has failed the mission. This is wrong. He should be seeking to have fun himself, while at the same time sharing himself with you. In many ways for a man it is fun to play with a woman's body. Hopefully it is fun for the woman also, but I suspect there are disconnects, and that is where you do the nudge or give him a little direction.

Since he is having confidence issues, I would suggest you tell him to not put so much emphasis on you getting to O, but rather he should relax and seek more what he wants for himself.

I would also suggest you try to bias your comments or actions towards positives rather than negatives. "Ooh that feels good just like that", or "Just a little bit over, yes there", rather than "That isn't working, would you try over there more". Even if you don't O, tell him something positive about how nice it was, or how relaxed and connected you feel. I would also suggest you make positive comments about you enjoying his enjoyment, such as you liked watching him as he did something to you.

You could put him in the spotlight once in awhile. Make it his night for you to take care of him. Start with maybe cleaning him in the shower. Or shave him (face!) before you two go out for dinner. There's something sensual about getting shaved by a woman. It could get him revved up.

Try to be more playful and carefree in the bedroom, rather than it being a task with a goal.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> To be more blunt he is touching me way, way too lightly to get anything going. Almost as if he didn't want to get his fingers dirty. This then triggered my long-held belief that he has an aversion to my genitals. Hmm, I don't care for that word. In any case. He outright denies these charges. So how to start over again with direction on the correct technique. This is a larger problem than giving positive feedback when he does something correctly - because he doesn't seem to get around to it. Yes, I have asked nicely, press hard - three copies!


Take his hand and guide him. If you're up to it, masturbate for him while he watches, then take his hand in yours and guide him.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I think a lot of men do get too focused on the woman's orgasm, but I feel our whole dysfunction is because he has not been concerned about my orgasm at all. Then of course there is my side of the dysfunction- not wanting to tell him the truth. 

Now, he says it is important to him. However, the past few months have gone by with no complaint from him when I cut off foreplay and go to PIV or when I tell him I don't want him to try.

Him taking his own pleasure would be a main focus on my breasts followed by me being on top until he finishes. This is not going to help me out.

Omg, it seems hopeless the more I explain it. I'm happy to masturbate for him, happy to use a vibrator, any of that. He will go along with these things but does not request them again.

It's hopeless, isn't it.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Its not that he is LD. He wants to have sex with me. He initiates sex. He responds to me when I initiate. He flatly denies my feelings of him not wanting me, being averse to female genitals, not caring about my orgasm, etc. He claims that none of this is true. I don't know if he is lazy or what is going on. 

During our last go round he claimed his weight and body image were making him a lazy lover and causing him to not peruse me. Since then he had made many health changes. I hope this continues. He is exercising regularly, losing weight, eating better, etc.

We recently celebrated a wedding anniversary and I spent the morning crying because I'm just so damned tired of dealing with this. I didn't believe we would have another anniversary. My reaction really freaked him out - I could tell he was scared about finding me in such a state, thus the pledge to try again to work on this.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Being nice about it, taking it easy, or telling him it's ok if you don't O is not going to help out with anything. If anything, it's going to make him feel more of a pu**y and that you are just bsing him. 

Honestly, the only way for your H to get his confidence back is by him WANTING to get his confidence back; not you. I don't believe that there is any easy way for you to do anything about it. 

From a mans perspective.. teasing and calling me out would get to me more than anything. For example, we are watching TV and a woman is on my lap. She starts to slowly rub me down there until I start to erect. She then proceeds to get up saying something along the lines of "nope, you dont get any of this until you want to eff me like a real man would." That would just push me to go crazy. Not saying this would work for him but who knows, lol.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Wish I could offer something helpful here, but I'm more or less in your husband's shoes. My wife very recently experienced her first orgasm with me (she's still very uncommunicative if it was her first at all) after about 15 minutes of manual followed by about 45 min to an hour of oral, and finally finishing with a vibe. She described it as kind of a weak one.

Always expected that once she was able to get there it would boost my confidence, and maybe her own as well. Oddly enough, it's had somewhat of the opposite effect. Now I know that it's definitely possible for her, which puts the onus back on me. The difficulty she has getting there is a reflection on me. For her part, she's barely acknowledged that it happened at all.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Way to go, fozzy! I've always thought you and I were more on the same side of things and our spouses on the other side. It's true that I have trouble getting off, but I seem to be the one willing to do a lot to get there with him. He, like your wife, doesn't appear to be overly motivated or want to vary things too much from the norm.

And it's odd that, being in your wife's position, I would describe it as being on her since she won't help you out - and not on you - but in my situation I feel I have exhausted my options trying to get there with him.

I can get myself off - so it can't be me! (Ha ha ha.)


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I think a lot of men do get too focused on the woman's orgasm, but I feel our whole dysfunction is because he has not been concerned about my orgasm at all. Then of course there is my side of the dysfunction- not wanting to tell him the truth.
> 
> Now, he says it is important to him. However, the past few months have gone by with no complaint from him when I cut off foreplay and go to PIV or when I tell him I don't want him to try.
> 
> ...


This makes it seem he is telling you one thing but doing another. If he is really concerned for you achieving O, than he shouldn't let you cut if off before you do. At first i would tell you hes under great pressure but after reading your other threads i don't buy that. 

Is he aware if you get off on a vibrator and masturbation that you are ok with that as long as he initiates? The reason I ask is if he thinks you are doing that because you think he is not meeting your needs that's one thing, but if you are ok on that getting you off with him, than he has to get in the game.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Well, I think you should first let him understand that it was your primary responsibility to tell him that you needed other things. 

I think many of us HD's are naturally curious and like to explore and try new things, others do not -they just assume everything is good unless they hear otherwise.

But I see nothing wrong with having some sessions that are all about you. 

I guess I have gotten the impression that he has complained about how long it takes you. If that is true then that is not a valid complaint. 

Make some sessions that are just about you. My previous SO liked massages and I loved rubbing oil all over her body and taking a long time to bring her to O. God I miss that. If it was my choice I would buy massage oil by the gallon.

I think that over a long period of time your O could possibly become easier once you gain more confidence, the general tension decreases and he learns better how to push the right buttons.

Gosh it is hard to touch a woman with just the right amount of pressure and just the right spot and it takes a lot of practice. So be patient and do not have a goal of finishing at first. 

Maybe agree to do this once a week. Start off with just a massage for thirty minutes with some genital stimulation but not with the purpose to finish and then work up from there. 

This would be in addition to regular sex.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

That sounds awesome, I would love massages, taking more time, taking an hour or more of foreplay. 

That would all work, I'm sure. Me getting myself off would work. Him using a vibrator on me would work. All of those things would work. 

My problem is that he doesn't ask to do any of these things. He will go along with things I ask for - once - and then never bring it up again or say anything positive about it after. Perhaps I should press the point and ask him to do it a second, third time and so on. However, it hurts my pride, of course, to have to ask him to try things that will work. 

In October (I remember it was on Halloween) we were successful at me having O during PIV, with me holding a vibrator on my clitoris while he was inside me (as PIV would suggest.) That was the last time I had O with him. Since then it has been very light manual stimulation, often he will not even penetrate the labia unless I coax him to do it. 

Every time I add more to this story I just get the feeling we are not going to make it. During the summer, when he tried giving me oral and such for the first time, my whole body lit up. I could feel his touch everywhere and it was electrifying my skin. My blood was rushing and I felt nearly drunk on it. (MissScarlett should write romance novels.) Compare this to a few days ago when I could feel absolutely nothing, it didn't feel like anything. My body has stopped believing he means it. I do not know how to fix this. It's awful. 

I know we need sexual counseling. I sometimes am able to convince myself it's not that bad and it's fixable if we both want to fix it but talking about it more makes me realize that is just not true.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

This board has really been an eye opener.

I have a group of 8 really close friends. Out of the 8 only 2 get off regularly during sex. A few more get off every now and again - 2x/month or so. 3 of us never had an orgasm with our husbands. One was me, I took the route of leveling with H. One decided to separate from her husband and is in the process of divorce (they had issues aside from sex as well.) One has never had a conversation with her H about sex and her lack of orgasms. A few weeks ago he found her vibrator in the bed. Came downstairs and asked her to go put it away. Never said another word, to her dismay. She was hoping he would come at her with it, even if he was super pissed off so they could at least talk about it.

It has really been an eye opener to meet you TAM men and ladies. That is for sure. It's been a big part of me changing a lot over the past year. (I found this board by googling reasons my husband would not go down on me.) The eye opening is good, positive possibilities are good, but the changes that have happened to me might not end up so well for H and I.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

It isn't hopeless. I do wonder if professional sex therapy is required.

Do you take care of him? I mean do you spend a lot of time on foreplay with him? Perhaps he feels you don't put enough attention on playing with him, so he is lazy about wanting to put a lot of effort into pleasing you?

To return to what I posted before, I think you should work on the positive reinforcement for things other than O. While your O is important, he might be viewing it as the only goal, and thus there is a pass/fail test. Every part of the encounter should be fun and rewarding itself, not merely one more plodding step along the 10 mile road to the finish line. So when he gives you a massage, you tell him how wonderful your back felt while he was massaging you. You say something either in the moment or afterwards about how you like playing with his man parts.

Perhaps you could do the "his night" where he gets to put together a little scenario or script. He writes down what he would like. Maybe it starts with a glass of wine and a piece of pie while watching a favorite tv show. Then it moves to the bedroom. He describes what he would like. The more steps and the more details the better. And your part in this is to genuinely have fun, and to communicate to him your joy at doing this for him. Also tell him what was pleasurable for you as you did this, e.g. "I loved how it felt when I was doing ____ to you."

If he is feeling like he is just a replacement vibrator, and the reason for the encounter is merely to get you to O, he may feel unimportant as a person and sex partner.

Do you have conversations outside of the bedroom about sex? If not, try having brief ones, even just a positive comment. Remark about a scene in a tv show how it reminds you of how he holds you. If you have a lot of talks, maybe you could have fewer and of lesser intensity.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Get him doing something he is good at, and his confidence will build this way.

Perhaps doing oral on you?

Reward him by performing oral on him, let him sit there with no obligation and pleasure him.

Over time add pieces to it. You guys may need some sex therepy or classes to add in skill, but there is alot you could show him.

You could masterbate yourself, and take his hand and press down on it to show him the pressure you need.

One reward is the verbal and physical confirmations. So if he touches you here and you let out a sigh of pleasure it will make him feel better.

Keep in mind Rome wasn't built in a day, neither was the confidence of an olympic level athelete. Without that level of confidence they could not perform their skills. It took many many years to build that.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I do believe that it is harder on women than men to have a non-initiating spouse. But I think you are just going to have to accept that you are the driver. 

Personally I would give him the job of initiating these sessions. They can be any time but has to be one a week. This is extremely minimal stuff. Anyone can give a massage for thirty minutes or an hour and a half. This is not an unreasonable time commitment or physically exhausting. There is no pressure on him to make you O. He does not have any requirement to be aroused himself.

If he does not initiate once than you initiate and let him know that he forgot to meet his responsibility -do not just let it drop and then let it fester inside you. If he continues to not initiate than you should probably find a more appropriate SO.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> My problem is that he doesn't ask to do any of these things. He will go along with things I ask for - once - and then never bring it up again or say anything positive about it after. Perhaps I should press the point and ask him to do it a second, third time and so on.


Why does he not try these again on his own?


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I know we need sexual counseling. I sometimes am able to convince myself it's not that bad and it's fixable if we both want to fix it but talking about it more makes me realize that is just not true.


Yeah, you do. Gently, we've been telling you this since the last thread.

I was an advocate for the gentle, incremental approach with your H but I think you're past that now, Scarlett. Either you are not explaining yourself to him the right way or he just isn't getting it. I don't see you cracking this without third-party assistance. Is H open to sex-therapy?

Also, one tough question: if you were to sit him down in a moment of non-emotional communication, and say, "I see this a lack of give-a-damn on your part. If nothing changes, our marriage is not going to survive.", how would he react? Because that is what you are telling us here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Convection said:


> Yeah, you do. Gently, we've been telling you this since the last thread.
> 
> I was an advocate for the gentle, incremental approach with your H but I think you're past that now, Scarlett. Either you are not explaining yourself to him the right way or he just isn't getting it. I don't see you cracking this without third-party assistance. Is H open to sex-therapy?


I agree that sex therapy is the way to go. I see a guy who thinks he can't win. He tried some things, they stopped working, and he has the thought of having failed for the last 18 years ringing in the back of his head. I also suspect he thinks he is viewed as the bad guy here, and that it is not entirely fair, so he is resentful. So he has quit because he no longer sees the point in trying. 

Not the way to go, but I suspect these are issues that they need to address. 



> Also, one tough question: if you were to sit him down in a moment of non-emotional communication, and say, "I see this a lack of give-a-damn on your part. If nothing changes, our marriage is not going to survive.", how would he react? Because that is what you are telling us here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I read a lot of projection in MissScarlett's posts. Things she thinks and presumes he feels, as well as things she presumes he feels and thinks. I suspect that while she has improved some, she is still following a lot of the same avoidance patterns that got her into this mess in the first place. Counseling to help the two of them improve their communication might also be helpful.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

People tend to shut down and give up when they know that can't succeed. Ever watch a football game where the losing team is getting their butts beat? By the 4th quarter they're just going through the motions. They've given up and they're just waiting for it to be over so they can get out of there.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Has anyone been to sex therapy and does anyone know how sex therapy works? 

I went to the regular therapy for 6 months. It was helpful, but she did not specialize in sexual issues and also was a woman who can o easily from PiV. With her we started from my earliest sexual memories and went up the line, anything that had to do with genitals, sex, messages from authority, preconceived ideas about sex, etc. It was very disturbing. I came home and threw up once because I was so upset. I did not stop therapy, though, we kept working through it until she felt we had gone over as much as we could. This was also during the window of time I was having some success so it did seem our issues were behind us.

It is very difficult to get feedback and info from H about sex. He does not give me a lot to go on. I don't know if he would be better with a therapist or not. 

Like the other day, he seemed upset and scared to find me crying on our anniversary. He flatly denies anything I "accuse" him of. For instance he says he wants to have sex every day, he is not repelled by any part of me, he is attracted to me, he is happy with our sex life, he feels he is very lucky to have me. 

Then when I say - but you haven't given me any oral since October. He says what? I say - do you remember the last time you gave me oral? He says no. I say it was October. He ponders this. I ask if anything happened to put him off on it. He says no. 

In March, when I confronted him about never having given me oral - I mean never, it hadn't happened, we had the same conversation. What? No oral? Are you sure? (Pondering this thought.) 

If I thought he was just being an ass I would deal with it. If I thought he was being misogynistic I would deal with that. I don't know what is causing this problem. I do not know where he is coming from.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> This was also during the window of time I was having some success so it did seem our issues were behind us.


I think you quit too soon.

What did he say when you asked him why he has not brought up on his own some of the techniques that did work?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> People tend to shut down and give up when they know that can't succeed. Ever watch a football game where the losing team is getting their butts beat? By the 4th quarter they're just going through the motions. They've given up and they're just waiting for it to be over so they can get out of there.


Do you think he cannot succeed or are you saying he BELIEVES that he just cannot succeed?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Do you think he cannot succeed or are you saying he BELIEVES that he just cannot succeed?


I'd say that I'm 95% confident that he BELIEVES he can't succeed. I'm probably 75% confident that he CANNOT succeed even if he tries (which he won't because he believes he can't).


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I quit therapy too soon and I didn't. I feel I did go as far with that therapist as was possible. She was not a sex therapist, she was a family therapist. 

I understand how I got into the situation I did and I understand that I have some heavy sexual baggage. I also understand how I have come to the conclusions I have with H. I continue to allow for the fact that I am wrong about him - because he tells me that I am - but his actions do not back his words up.

Our conversation the other day was about me feeling rejected by him. Me having an orgasm (or not) did not come up the other day at all. This was strictly about the frequency with which we are having sex and the fact that I put myself out there initiating and he does not pick up on this or puts me off. 

He did say he didn't care for me using the vibrator during PiV because it felt like his penis was being shocked. He kind of brought that up out of the blue last week. 

I have not said a word about me having an orgasm (or not) since October.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It obviously takes both of you caring about this in order to reach a solution. Perhaps telling him you don't expect to see another anniversary unless things change will make him see you are ready to leave if things don't noticeably improve. But only if you really would leave. Don't just threaten because then he'll feel justified in continuing to ignore you.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Openminded said:


> It obviously takes both of you caring about this in order to reach a solution. Perhaps telling him you don't expect to see another anniversary unless things change will make him see you are ready to leave if things don't noticeably improve. But only if you really would leave. Don't just threaten because then he'll feel justified in continuing to ignore you.


Take some tantra classes together. This way your not telling him, both of you are learning new ways to get more out of the sexual experience together.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> In March, when I confronted him about never having given me oral - I mean never, it hadn't happened, we had the same conversation. What? No oral? Are you sure? (Pondering this thought.)


Ok, sorry, but...seriously?!?! How does a mentally competent man not know he's never given his wife (of many years) oral? :slap:


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I do think you are partially correct that he is probably having confidence issues. Along with maybe just being somewhat lazy about your needs and or does not really relate to you as well as he should. 

I guess some guy would look at the vibrator as "I could not do it for her and so she had to use that" And it would be a confident man to not take it personally. 

You build confidence by creating no loose scenarios. I think that if he is trying than there is something to be said for 'fake it until you make it'

But that is only if he is putting in the effort.


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## fightforher (Dec 4, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Has anyone been to sex therapy and does anyone know how sex therapy works?
> 
> I went to the regular therapy for 6 months. It was helpful, but she did not specialize in sexual issues and also was a woman who can o easily from PiV. With her we started from my earliest sexual memories and went up the line, anything that had to do with genitals, sex, messages from authority, preconceived ideas about sex, etc. It was very disturbing. I came home and threw up once because I was so upset. I did not stop therapy, though, we kept working through it until she felt we had gone over as much as we could. This was also during the window of time I was having some success so it did seem our issues were behind us.
> 
> ...


First off, DO NOT GIVE UP!

Where is he coming from? Let me guess:

1) My wife faked it for years (i.e. I was not good enough to give her an orgasm, and she did not even let me know - probably because I was so far off that she knew it was impossible).

2) My wife can get off with a vibrator in 5 minutes. Translation: Even a mechanical device is a better lover than I am. Perhaps my wife should have married somebody else that is better at sex and she would have a good sex life. Feeling guilty of trapping her. H loves his wife, wants her dearly. But can't give her everything she wants.

3) Trying hard to please her. But it is a lot of work and she is still disappointed in my performance. Takes too long and she gets impatient (probably longs for a quick release).

Ok, that is my guess (let me know if I am way off target).

What to do?

You need to talk to him and let him know that:
a) You will not fake it anymore .. ever!
b) The journey is just as important to you as the orgasm.
c) You love him, and want only him. You have no regrets.

You have made several comments that might indicate that he is not "familiar" with the female sex organs, or that he might think of them as "icky." He does not press hard enough (perhaps because he does not understand how hard he can press there). I don't know if this is your perception or his. But if it is his perception, then it might be a good idea for him to read some material the describes the function of the various organs in detail. The reason I say this is because understanding your equipment may take some of the "icky" factor out of it. Personally I have more confidence when I am educated to know more about it.

Just a guess


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I can think of several scenarios that would be successful. From my point of view, he does not seem that interested in finding a solution. If it bothers him that I am not getting off he hasn't said as much to me. He hasn't asked what happened or how we can get things going again. 

As I said, if nothing else I am happy to get the job done while he helps, touches and holds me. That is not on him at all. I feel pretty confident that would work. I guess I could always just start doing it, spring it on him. But the whole point of wanting this to happen WITH him was that he would be involved. In this particular scenario when I say him being involved - I'm talking about him verbally asking me to do this or in some way making it something we were doing together. If he's horrified or something I would just rather do it alone.

Also I had given up my vibrator because it is very strong and I felt it was numbing my clitoris and was making it quite impossible for human touch to arouse me. I still have it (Okay, I admit I have used it twice in the past 30 days but it has been a really bad sex month) but have told him outright I have no problem staying away from it because I would prefer to have sex with him. And that's the truth. If I just cared about getting off I could get off as much as needed - no help is required. That's not the point. 

I am getting upset. I'm going to leave for a bit and go to the gym. I will check back later on. 

Once again - even things that are difficult to hear, I do take them into consideration. This site has been invaluable to me for different points of view. I do really appreciate everyone taking the time to contribute.

Going to gym. Meetings at high school. Back later.

Editing to add - by upset I do not mean mad or that anyone has upset me. This situation upsets me and my frustration upsets me and it upsets me that I just want to have sex with him and be close to him and have him kiss me and say nice things to me and have sex be something that we do together. In the past year we have had times like this and now it's not again. It's frustrating and I don't know what to do.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I can think of several scenarios that would be successful. From my point of view, he does not seem that interested in finding a solution. If it bothers him that I am not getting off he hasn't said as much to me. He hasn't asked what happened or how we can get things going again.
> 
> As I said, if nothing else I am happy to get the job done while he helps, touches and holds me. That is not on him at all. I feel pretty confident that would work. I guess I could always just start doing it, spring it on him. But the whole point of wanting this to happen WITH him was that he would be involved. In this particular scenario when I say him being involved - I'm talking about him verbally asking me to do this or in some way making it something we were doing together. If he's horrified or something I would just rather do it alone.


I like the idea of you taking care of it while he holds, caresses or kisses you.



MissScarlett said:


> Also I had given up my vibrator because it is very strong and I felt it was numbing my clitoris and was making it quite impossible for human touch to arouse me. I still have it (Okay, I admit I have used it twice in the past 30 days but it has been a really bad sex month) but have told him outright I have no problem staying away from it because I would prefer to have sex with him. And that's the truth. If I just cared about getting off I could get off as much as needed - no help is required. That's not the point.


Great idea, your not the first. You definately don't want a vibrator to make stimulation from the real thing nearly impossible.



MissScarlett said:


> I am getting upset. I'm going to leave for a bit and go to the gym. I will check back later on.
> 
> Once again - even things that are difficult to hear, I do take them into consideration. This site has been invaluable to me (I always think that word should mean not valuable) for different points of view. I do really appreciate everyone taking the time to contribute.
> 
> Going to gym. Meetings at high school. Back later.


I think you will get to where you want to be. Enjoy the ride, it's not all going to change at once.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Now, he says it is important to him. However, the past few months have gone by with no complaint from him when I cut off foreplay and go to PIV or when I tell him I don't want him to try.


I UNDERSTAND this. My husband is the same exact way. It's hard to get them to understand that you want them to care, and to push and try for your orgasm. Even if you say it's okay if they don't want to.

It's the same for me especially with oral. He will do it if I ask. But if I ask him if he wants to stop he will. That hurts, and makes my mind start thinking dramatic horrible things.

Keep your chin up girlie. We are in this together.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> That sounds awesome, I would love massages, taking more time, taking an hour or more of foreplay.
> 
> That would all work, I'm sure. Me getting myself off would work. Him using a vibrator on me would work. All of those things would work.
> 
> My problem is that he doesn't ask to do any of these things. He will go along with things I ask for - once - and then never bring it up again or say anything positive about it after. Perhaps I should press the point and ask him to do it a second, third time and so on. However, it hurts my pride, of course, to have to ask him to try things that will work.


 Same here. I know what works. But my husband doesn't ask or bring it up ever again. And your right, it hurts your pride to have to keep asking over and over. 

If I knew how to help, I would... I'm so sorry.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

If my wife asked me if I want to stop I guess I might consider that a hint that she wanted me to stop. 

I just have to wonder if these guys need more rules to follow.
1. initiate at least once a week.
2. and when I say initiate I mean make it convincing, show me that you desire my physically as well as mentally
3. if I ask if you want to stop giving me oral that means I am asking if you are enjoying it. 
4. etc...


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I see the answer now,
Women need to come with a manual for proper care and maintenance. 

OK to be fair Guys do to because apparently we are no easier to understand.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

TheCuriousWife said:


> Same here. I know what works. But my husband doesn't ask or bring it up ever again. And your right, it hurts your pride to have to keep asking over and over.


So I will ask again, when you or Scarlett ask your husband why they don't bring something up again, what is the response?

For Scarlet, when you ask him if it bothers him that you don't get off, what does he say?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> So I will ask again, when you or Scarlett ask your husband why they don't bring something up again, what is the response?
> 
> For Scarlet, when you ask him if it bothers him that you don't get off, what does he say?


I can tell you why, because my H is exactly the same way, and I was once just like them.

He doesn't bring it up again because they have stopped asking. Once they stop asking, he thinks his job is done and everything can go right back to the way it was when things were easy.

The big difference in my marriage is that I figured out a way to orgasm easier and quicker. If I took too long to get there, or if I hadn't become self absorbed in terms of getting what I want in bed, I'd still be just as inorgasmic as they are.

We married lazy men. Good men. Nice men. But lazy men.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett...you went for however many years, pretending to be getting off, very vocally, enthusiastically, etc. During those years, I am assuming your H really didn't act any different than he does now. Am I right? IOW, he didn't ask about anything, talk about anything, or ask for any variations or additions to your sex life. Is that right?

So that is who he is and always has been.

You know this about him.

It seems odd to him that you are asking him to change.

You probably should just address it like that though: "Honey, I need you to CHANGE the way you view our sex life, CHANGE the way you don't verbalize enough with me, and CHANGE your skills (ie: get some new ones".

The point is, you and he both are going to fail if you go along thinking "this is how we both are" without also adding in "but we can CHANGE if we choose to".

Going down the road thinking everything was fine for all those years, your husband had no need to change. You kinda need to woman up and tell him that actual change is what you need.

You will likely have to lead this thing, for now at least. He doesn't know how to touch you with his hand? You take his hand and show him and verbalize it, like teaching someone something for the very first time. Do this outside of a sexual experience. Do it as a "class lesson". Put on your hot skirt, some teacher glasses, a white button down top...and take hubby by the hand to the bedroom for a "lesson". No sex, just a lesson. Then TRULY teach him, don't expect him to do it right, he will not, because he hasn't been taught, and because he needs to CHANGE some things.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> To be more blunt he is touching me way, way too lightly to get anything going. Almost as if he didn't want to get his fingers dirty. This then triggered my long-held belief that he has an aversion to my genitals. Hmm, I don't care for that word. In any case. He outright denies these charges. So how to start over again with direction on the correct technique. This is a larger problem than giving positive feedback when he does something correctly - because he doesn't seem to get around to it. Yes, I have asked nicely, press hard - three copies!


Well, I had a - not the first partner, but first longterm partner, who was pretty patient and said what she liked, and when things were working. So she got what she needed.

Then once the basics were locked down, it was easy to then begin experimenting.

It sounds like lots of people are trying to skip the basics and move onto complications. This is like trying to run before you can walk.

In addition, every woman is different. If you like being bitten on the neck, or if a good massage on your back makes you relaxed, why not bring it in as part of foreplay. At the same time, do these things without the expectation of sex also helps, and sometimes do other things instead, so that it doesn't become a duty.

He may have been misguided by a previous partner, and distressed to find that his normal tricks don't work on you. Not knowing what one is doing 'wrong', and not being instructed as to what's right -frustration- is a quick way to kill the mood for a man.

I can see you care about your fellow. Show this to him, while telling him that you're going to up-skill him, and you change the dynamic from telling him 'You're not very good' to 'you're _going to be_ awesome'.

Your current focus on improvement and not 'results' is also really helpful. No-one wants to sit an exam, but everyone likes to do better and better.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Playing catch up on questions - 

I have never asked him why he hasn't asked to use the vibrator or have me masturbate with him there.

When I have brought up my lack of orgasms he says of course he feels bad and I dont need to remind him that he can't get me off. This answer is the reason I haven't said anything since October. It is not my goal to humiliate him or shame him. I know I have not handled my situation well. I'm not trying to make it more difficult or hurtful for him. I like to have sex with him. I very rarely turn him down and I initiate as well. He prefers me to be on top - okay, I'm on top. I am trying to work with him. I am not lying there criticizing him (even if I am guilty of thinking - this is not going to work).

But anyway, I hear people saying that I need to give him more direction and work in some information on my anatomy as well. I need to be more clear on my need for feedback from him. I will also need to accept that I need to take charge of the situation for now even though I would much prefer him to lead.

Faithful, I do humorously own a sexy teacher costume. No wait, it's a sexy student costume. Won't work. (Kidding!)

Thanks again.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Playing catch up on questions -
> 
> I have never asked him why he hasn't asked to use the vibrator or have me masturbate with him there.
> 
> ...


You won't have to lead forever, just till he gets better basic training. It won't sort itself.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Hi MissScarlett,

I found this board via Google as well since I was looking for some answers, it's funny as a forum lurker I found reading some of the discussions quite helpful and then started to show these discussions to my lovely wife as well.

As to your husband I have no doubt that you don't want to hurt or humiliate him. I am certain that you would like him to meet your needs as you do his.

So if I may, I have a few questions, when you both talk about sex, do you both bring it up equally or is one of you the one who brings it up most often?

In which setting do you talk about sex and what is the theme and tone of the discussion?

The reason why I ask is that we're all as good and bad as each other, men and women alike can find it very uncomfortable to talk about sex directly.

My lovely wife enjoys doing a lot of things that for many people are no go ever things to do. Yet will not talk about them unless she really has to, except when we are doing it and she's fine to talk about it then.

In other words you or your husband may feel extremely uncomfortable talking about sex out of embarrassment and all our other foibles in certain settings which may make it harder to enjoy the experience.

I wonder if you have you had many orgasms before, by yourself or with someone else. By the same token I wonder if your husband has been able to make other women orgasm before or at the very least believes he has?

Unfortunately some women believe that it's okay to fake an orgasm which in the long run does nothing to help a man who hasn't brought the woman to orgasm ever get good at doing it. I hope you haven't given him that impression before, having said that even if you have it doesn't matter because if you are both resolved through love to put in the effort to help each other enjoy sex more you can both learn to work together to make things better.

Since he hasn't been great at getting you there, If you haven't already done this, I encourage you to take plenty of time exploring yourself so that you have some idea of the various ways you can get to orgasm so that you can better direct him with real knowledge so to speak.

Then when you are intimate with each other have him explore you take his hand and tell him what you like don't expect to have an orgasm and let him know that it's okay for you not to have one. Make it fun to try. Sure it would be nice if he takes the lead but there's nothing wrong with you doing this in directing him. There is no humiliation in this you are equals, you're an adult with the one you love be assertive and direct as required. Make it fun, have a laugh when it doesn't work or some bit of it doesn't feel great always take the pressure off, it isn't a test it's supposed to be a holiday taken together. So have fun along the way.

Also remember an orgasm isn't static as in you can be real close as a woman and if your man starts to go nibble your nipples or run his teeth along your neck etc it may bring you across the line spectacularly while another day doing the same thing will may make you lose that about to happen orgasm.

You both have to be willing to explore this together, I also might add he may not feel your genitals are offensive he just may be a bit intimidated by them since he has had trouble getting you there. If he can see the pleasure you get from getting closer and having it happen and can see the funny side with you when it doesn't things should probably improve.

I think one of the biggest thing you can do as well in order to improve your chances of having orgasms more often outside of the actual technicalities of making it happen, is to stop thinking about it so hard when he's working on you and to stop wondering what he might be thinking or feeling and about any issues you have about yourself, you need to let go before more often so that you are more receptive to the moment.

Now some technicalities, there are some very specific ways to tell when a woman is getting closer to orgasm inside and out even though each woman is different (yet some parts inside start to spasm in exactly the same way for example on all of the women I have been with). Which makes it easy to tell the difference between a fake or real orgasm. Those tells can be used by a man or woman for that matter in telling when a woman is getting there and can be used to inform wether to start doing more of something to bring it closer or switch to something else to prevent the climax from occurring sooner to stretch out the experience or build a bigger orgasm through building up to it a few times before bringing the finish.

So please do take it easily have fun and laugh along the way, you have waited this long for the better experience so have already been inordinately patient so far. So don't worry if it doesn't happen instantly and all of the time just keep sharing with your love, talking about it in the right place and also remember to express in words your happiness when he does it for you the right way, without being over the top or adding groans that are exaggerated.

I hope my ramblings aren't too incoherent and that you both have a great time along the way.

Best...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> Playing catch up on questions -
> 
> I have never asked him why he hasn't asked to use the vibrator or have me masturbate with him there.


Why have you not asked him?

I think you need to gently call him out on his laziness and/or passiveness. Sounds like he is avoiding it and hoping you forget. When you don't raise it, he can pretend that you don't care. Don't let him get away with this and make clear that it hurts that he is not trying.



> Faithful, I do humorously own a sexy teacher costume. No wait, it's a sexy student costume. Won't work. (Kidding!)


I bet some sexy tutor role play would work just fine.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why have you not asked him?
> 
> I think you need to gently call him out on his laziness and/or passiveness. Sounds like he is avoiding it and hoping you forget. When you don't raise it, he can pretend that you don't care. Don't let him get away with this and *make clear that it hurts that he is not trying.*


Have said this many times to my H. Not in regards to sex specifically but the relationship in general. The reply is always the same, I don't know what you want me to do? Even though I have told him, wrote to him, sent him links made lists... You ask for XYZ he give X and some times a Z and that's supposed to be enough.

It's pure emotional laziness. I don't think there is a cure...


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Have said this many times to my H. Not in regards to sex specifically but the relationship in general. The reply is always the same, I don't know what you want me to do? Even though I have told him, wrote to him, sent him links made lists... You ask for XYZ he give X and some times a Z and that's supposed to be enough.
> 
> It's pure emotional laziness. I don't think there is a cure...


I think I've pretty much decided that is what sums up my marriage problems too.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Have said this many times to my H. Not in regards to sex specifically but the relationship in general. The reply is always the same, I don't know what you want me to do? Even though I have told him, wrote to him, sent him links made lists... You ask for XYZ he give X and some times a Z and that's supposed to be enough.
> 
> It's pure emotional laziness. I don't think there is a cure...


It might not be the cure for Scarlet either. But based on her history and current posts, I sense that she is not as direct and forthcoming with her husband about this issues. Partly it is to make sure she checks off this box and partly it is to get her used to clearly communicating her feelings with him.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

MS - it really saddens me to read your posts here on TAM. I can feel the raw frustration in your words.

I have to think that the 18 years or so when your H thought you were having orgasms, and the revelation that you were not has got to play a huge part in this. At some level he must feel betrayed, and has built up resentment over it. He has significant trust issues around sex. I know I would.

Between your H's issues around pleasing you sexually, your frustration, and a bunch of other baggage that is perhaps less obvious, I don't think you are going to be able to fix this yourself. The physical and emotional sexual frustration you must be experiencing at this point probably doesn't help, either.

I think you need to find a marriage counselor who has certification and/or credentials as a sex therapist. I don't know the exact differences, but I know sex therapists are experienced in these sorts of things, and understand the dynamics involved.

I would seek out a female practitioner. I know when we went through a similar process a couple of years ago, my wife was more comfortable with a female, and so was I. 

Once you find someone you both like, I would keep at it until the practitioner thinks you are ready to stop. I think your previous experiences with counselors were akin to stopping your antibiotic because you felt better, instead of finishing the full course.

I think your H has some deep-seated issues, and you probably do, too (religious upbringing, etc.). Your husband might even need to work with a surrogate to gain some of his sexual confidence back.

I think your situation is very complicated, and you need the assistance of a really good sex therapist to sort it all out. I think TAM is a great resource, but I think crowdsourcing your sexual advice from this board can only take you so far.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Miss Scarlet,

I can't help but wonder, maybe frequency would improve your chances?

I'm in the midst of running a MAP from Married Man Sex Life Primer, and can see a lot of benefit. I don't know if any other posters or you have looked into this, but they also have one from a female prospective too.

Some interesting comments from the book:

70% of sex is mediocre
Her orgasm is her resposponsibility

But, and here's a big part of that, sexual responsiveness is as much about outside of the bedroom as in. Does he game you? Do you flirt with him? Are you wound up before the bedroom? Some things may be structural and you don't know it.

I would say if everything is ok, why not try a 7 days of sex? Nobody likes to feel like there's a mission or goal for sex. It causes anxiety. Just tell your hubby "I will never say no" and practice practice practice. Get in there an have some dirty ugly sex. Then when its done tell him "Ooo, I really like it when you did XYZ". Get on top of him and HAND him the vibe. Stick it where you want it.

I can't help but feel in some ways your not advocating for what you want. Especially when you say "I don't know why he's never asked, cause I never asked him"

Forgive me if I'm wrong or missed something but are you advocating?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> To be more blunt he is touching me way, way too lightly to get anything going. Almost as if he didn't want to get his fingers dirty. This then triggered my long-held belief that he has an aversion to my genitals. Hmm, I don't care for that word. In any case. He outright denies these charges. So how to start over again with direction on the correct technique. This is a larger problem than giving positive feedback when he does something correctly - because he doesn't seem to get around to it. Yes, I have asked nicely, press hard - three copies!


Well I don't know if it helps but I always had a worry that I would hurt my wife if I pressed to hard when using my hand. It used to scare me when she would grab my hand and force it onto her and gasp "feel the notch, feel the notch" :scratchhead:

Yet I had no compunction in going hard when doing PIV.

Not sure why.

Without 'training' from my wife I would be so frightened of hurting her delicate lady bits that I would still be flitting around like a butterfly down there.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"It used to scare me when she would grab my hand and force it onto her and gasp "feel the notch, feel the notch""

I wish my wife would do that -I would love feeling her notch.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

MissScarlett,

don't give up hope. You sound a little depressed. I would be too in your situation.

Your husband does sound passive. I can't believe that he can't remember roughly when he last gave you oral. I wonder when he gives you oral - does he do it with enthusiasm, like he can't get enough or does he peck at you like a chicken and wipe his mouth repeatedly? (Hope this isn't too personal).

I do think the idea of going to a sex therapist is a brilliant one. Obviously communication is key. From your postings the pair of you could greatly improve your skills in that area. Adopt a more "lay your cards on the table" approach to your communications rather than guessing at each others thoughts and motives.

How about instituting a nightly no holds barred sex talk with your husband? Taking turns just laying it all out there: likes, dislikes, fantasies, maybe a bit of show with the 'tell'.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I have been thinking over the responses and it is true - I am not advocating for my needs right now except in the most passive way of not faking orgasms.

I believe it's gotten to this point again due to several comments he has made in the past few months. For example - every time you bring up sex it's to tell me I'm not doing something right. I know I can't get you off, you don't need to remind me. You're bossy in bed. It has to be your way.

It is very difficult to get H to say anything about sex at all. So there is a lot of not talking with an occasional remark as above thrown in.

I am not necessarily making excuses for the lack of communication - I am explaining the way it is. I would love to tell him everything about me sexually and I would love to know everything about him. Like other areas of life - it is difficult to just put yourself out there and start offering information that isn't asked for. Especially if the other person doesn't respond in kind. 

However, the situation has become unbearable again, so changes are going to have to be made.

Last night was strange - he made several comments about sex that were positive. We are going on vacation soon without children. He said he didn't want to sightsee much, just be at the hotel drinking and having sex. I found this amusing and not like him but will certainly take it. Then he initiated very not vanilla sex (for him anyway) - so that was a very nice change of pace. 

But now in the morning light I'm wondering how far out I should put this anatomy lesson so as not to make it seem he wasn't doing anything right last night. It's going to be difficult for me to expose myself like that so I need to psych myself up first.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Yes some people respond to any criticism very poorly and build a wall instead of trying to change their technique. (my wife) Even when what you are asking for is just minor adjustments.

I complained about my wife being negative during sex. She tended to say "don't do that" or "that is not right" instead of "do that more" "that feels good" so my advice is always make positive comments never negative. Also give more subtle clues. If he is applying more pressure and that is good than make a sound that lets him know. When it is too much pressure it is about impossible to not communicate that with body language so he can probably figure it out without being told. 

For me I would find it fascinating, I was half joking above but I truly would like it if my wife wanted me to feel some particular part or just being able to explore with her what feels good to her. I think that the vast majority of men find the vagina to be very lovely and sensual.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

For the immediate future I wouldn't say anything which might imply he did not do a good job last night. Let him feel like he was successful and appreciated.

Build on positives. When he gets more confidence he will be able to handle some negatives.

If there was something he did well, but there is a slight change which would make it great, try to do it in a really positive way. "When you did that thing last time, it was really nice. Could you do it again? When you do, I'd like to experiment with some variations on it." This kind of approach rewards him and it encourages him to try it slightly differently.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Thor said:


> For the immediate future I wouldn't say anything which might imply he did not do a good job last night. Let him feel like he was successful and appreciated.
> 
> Build on positives. When he gets more confidence he will be able to handle some negatives.
> 
> If there was something he did well, but there is a slight change which would make it great, try to do it in a really positive way. "When you did that thing last time, it was really nice. Could you do it again? When you do, I'd like to experiment with some variations on it." This kind of approach rewards him and it encourages him to try it slightly differently.


Yes, build on positives and focus on them, even the smallest ones.

It's an accumulative effort so over time, it will build.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I did make sure to offer lots of positive feedback throughout, even more minor things like kissing - he is a very good kisser. I called him a dirty bastard at one point, but I think he liked it.

Okay, so I'm thinking if I can show him a certain spot just under my clitoris and show him on his hand how I need him to rub it - this would be pertinent information. He is going at it with two fingers on his left hand (we end up like this due to him sleeping on the left side of the bed.) If I can get him to use the thumb of his right hand this would be a more direct approach and I think it would be successful over a 20 minute time period. (Making sex into science.) I will say - this is what I will take care of (informing him if the pressure is right - lubrication usage) - this is what I need you to do - let's try for 20 min.

In any case - how should I approach him with that much information without it being micro-manager like. Or like I am treating him as a child.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

Given where things are today, I think you will have more success letting a sex therapist tell your H about that spot under your clitoris than if you tried to tell/direct him.

Based on what you have told us, I think it would come across as bossy/controlling/micro-managing.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

How about having a few low key sex encounters with no instruction or commentary?


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Try this. I think some of this advice is all wrong. 

Your orgasm is your responsibility. Nothing wrong with that. 
Your feelings are yours to deal with not his. 
His feelings are his to deal with not yours. 
Tell him this. 

Quit f'n worrying so much about it. He's a big boy he'll get over it. 

Get ready for sexy time. Tell him "no judgement. I was wrong. I should have told you a long time ago. This is what gets me off"

Then take his hand and show him. My wife did this during our first time! Now I can get her off like a rocket in less than 5 minutes. 

Here's a good thing to know. When a man grumbles but says he'll do something. SHUT UP. That's how we get our brains to come to terms with it. 

Your over thinking this too much. He's a man. Feed him. **** him. Give him a job. That's all we need. Therapists my ass.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Unfortunately my H travels for work. For the next few months he will be gone M-F so opportunities for sex get pushed to the weekend. This is also going to be a problem if/when we can get into therapy 

I.have never seen a sex therapist, granted, but how is the therapist going to known about the spot below the clitoris? I'm assuming they would know because I would tell them - is.sex therapy not talking to both people at once, like a mediator?

Just a reminder that I have offered no commentary or asked him to do anything specific for me since October. I didn't mean to imply I criticise him constantly - it's just one of those situations where I don't feel free to give him ideas of what I would like to do. To avoid negative responses from him I generally go along with what he likes to do. Obviously this hasn't worked out well for me in time.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Unfortunately my H travels for work. For the next few months he will be gone M-F so opportunities for sex get pushed to the weekend. This is also going to be a problem if/when we can get into therapy
> 
> I.have never seen a sex therapist, granted, but how is the therapist going to known about the spot below the clitoris? I'm assuming they would know because I would tell them - is.sex therapy not talking to both people at once, like a mediator?
> 
> Just a reminder that I have offered no commentary or asked him to do anything specific for me since October. I didn't mean to imply I criticise him constantly - it's just one of those situations where I don't feel free to give him ideas of what I would like to do. To avoid negative responses from him I generally go along with what he likes to do. Obviously this hasn't worked out well for me in time.


I probably didn't make it clear but unless my wife made it clear to me what she likes I would be almost clueless.

Just a suggestion. I'm not widely experienced so I realised that when my wife and I first got busy I needed guidance.

Even now we will sit of an evening and peruse some sex position websites and discuss what we are going to do that night.

Would it help hubby if you did something like that?

For me it has added advantage that my wife is already partially worked up after viewing the positions we could use. Win win.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Miss Scarlett...here are a couple of thoughts:

1. Are you able to get yourself off with just your hand, reliably? Or is it hard for you to get there that way yourself, too? Because this alone is a big part of the issue. He will not be able to get you there any easier than you can, that's for sure. So hopefully, you can get yourself there that way easily...if that is the case, he has a much higher chance.

2. It is easy to understand from the outside how he feels that you are bossy in bed. But also easy to understand why you are hurt and frustrated in general. The problem is that when you bring your hurt, frustrated self to bed with him, how is he supposed to respond positively to that? You seem bossy to him through your hurt and fear of rejection...so you already set the tone of every sexual encounter because you hold these resentments.

Now, I'm not saying you can just dump all your resentments over night, but can you dump them at the door before you get in bed with him at least?

3. By coming to bed with all those resentments, it is obviously you expect him to fail and let you down. How can he operate under the assumption of failure? I'm not talking about his skills right now, just what he brings to the table in general is going to let you down and he knows it already.

4. Are you genuinely sexually attracted to HIM, his body, his smells, his aura? If you are, then you need to get yourself worked up on that attraction for him and stay in that feeling all during each and every sex act. If you catch your mind thinking "ugh, I hope he stops doing this or that" then you know you aren't swimming in attraction, you are swimming in resentment. Stop, reset your head, look at his arms or do whatever you normally do to feel your attraction for him again...and start over.

5. As for the hand job instructions...have you ever done any straight up role playing? If not, this is an excellent opportunity to take the awkwardness out of the hand job lesson by making it even MORE awkward with role playing! When I was saying about the skirt, etc...take it further and set up a happy endings massage parlor in your bedroom. Dress both of you up and take turns as if you are instructors of prostitutes, teaching each other various techniques, talking about your anatomies, one lays down and the other gets instructed on what feels best to them...don't even expect or try to have an O, just PLAY. You need to take the serious edge off your sex life right away and get some light hearted understanding and education in its place.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm able to get myself off with my hand - it does take about 20 minutes. I don't know how that falls along averages. It was much easier and faster with the vibrator, 5 minutes or less.

I am attracted to him. I imagine my body is accustomed to sex with no orgasm, I get excited but not THAT excited because my body does not believe it's going to happen. During this summer, however, during the window of success by body WAS getting that excited an I was getting uncomfortably aroused just thinking about sex with him.

I think I am the way I've always been with him in bed. I like sex. My sex drive has always been somewhat higher than his. I don't know if he can sense what is going on in my head. I expect the too light touching. He delivers with then too light touching. I have two choices - ask him/ direct him to try to make this more effective. This changes his attitude to "i can't do anything right" Or I can move it on to PIV where I know there's no chance of it happening either.

As I said in the first post - I'm not looking to get off every time. However, I feel trapped in this situationn where I do not feel able to tell him what I want. And doing it his way over and over is getting less bearable as time passes. I want to have something that is "ours" - getting off or not i would like to feel like he cares and is receptive to the way I would like to have sex too.

I honestly do not think I am bossy in bed. I rarely say anything. If I've been in top 50 times in a row and suddenly become difficult to roll over this equals bossy to my husband. At least it has in the past. I've been on top for months, could we do doggy? Why are you so bossy in bed? That is how that has gone in the past.

I only bring this up to illustrate why I have not been comfortable advocating for my needs. He has been, in the past, overly sensitive to any suggestion that I don't want the exact thing in bed that he does or that he is not naturally blowing my mind every time.

We have communication issues, obviously. 

Roll play does sound very interesting - not sure I could sell it to him but you never know!


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

It takes about 20 minutes for me to give an HJ to my wife but I have had a lot of practice. 

What broke the momentum from last summer? 

I think that you are not assertive enough. Bossiness is not your problem. However. Maybe your husband is saying that he can't handle direction during sex? Maybe he needs to be given instruction well before sex? I don't know. I was just thinking maybe he needs to feel like he is leading (but he just is not really a good leader)

Before you throw in the towel I think you really need to tell him this stuff.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I'm able to get myself off with my hand - it does take about 20 minutes. I don't know how that falls along averages. It was much easier and faster with the vibrator, 5 minutes or less.


20 minutes is the average around here.... maybe more!

So I don't think your strange, or hard to orgasm. Women just take longer than men.

I do find it interesting that your husband wants you on top nearly every time. Do you know why that is?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Are his eyes opened or closed? Is he touching you where you like to be touched when you're on top? 

Have you tried a little bullet vibrator that he can hold on your clit as you ride him?


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

In my experience, sex therapy involves both individual and joint sessions. Most likely a couple of sessions together, then some individual, then back together. Anything you tell the therapist about your preferences (like the spot below your cl!t) would likely be shared in an individual session, and the therapist would likely then share that sort of thing with your H in an individual session.

Given your H's work schedule, perhaps you can find someone who will work with you on weekends, and you can always do your individual sessions during the week.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

What broke the momentum in the summer - I had stopped masturbating, had been off the vibrator for a few months and was keeping myself in a highly aroused state. In my mind I wanted to make things easier for H when he tried. 

However, this state of mind was not sustainable over the long term. I started returning to normal life, busy with kids and activities.and such. H would spring sex on me - like while in was working on finances - or whatever. I would realize I was not at all aroused right then and would feel a panic - scared I could not perform and this would make him feel bad. So performance anxiety. The window of success was a honeymoon of sorts but then it was getting down to real life circumstances. I was afraid he couldn't do it if I wasn't already highly aroused. Whether this was the truth or a self fulfilling prophesy, the orgasms stopped. He never said a word but then got lazy as well. I cant have sex now, I don't have that kind of time type of stuff.

He prefers me being on top because he is a breast man primarily and likes to touch them while we are having sex. Also because he is a lazy ass. Hands never go below the waist once intercourse starts.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

So yeah, it's plain laziness. He likes things easy for him, he likes things that he likes, and what you like or need isn't on his radar.

NOT sustainable!


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Last night was very bad. I was at a function. He was home. I had been thinking about the night before all day and had gotten very aroused. I mean, to the point I hadn't felt since summer. I was in pain - thats how aroused I was. 

Get home - walk over to H and whisper in his ear that I had been thinking about last night all day and I cant wait to get him upstairs. I am in pain I am so hot for you right now.

He wraps up what he was doing and we went upstairs. Got ready for bed. I am thinking - this thing is going to happen. I don't care. I'm grabbing his hand, doing it myself. Whatever - its happening.

Commence with the activities. Pulling his clothes off, oral, he's ready to go. Wait for whatever he's going to do for me - he isn't doing anything. Wait some more, he is focused on breasts. Move around in case he's not getting the message. Hands stay above the waist. Now I'm thinking wth is going on. He reaches down and starts to put his penis in me. This stops everything. I tell him one more time how aroused I am, I really need him to put his hands on me. He says "I really gave you so much extra last night. If I do that too much you are going to expect it all the time." 

Oh hell - no. You did not just say that to me.

I retreated to my side of the bed. He comes after me, now he wants to touch me because he knows I'm pissed. I say no, I am quite done for the evening. He made a comment about his penis being worked up, whatever. I say - I have been aching for you all night - it happens to women too!

Of course I can't sleep. I was awake for a lot of hours thinking things over. As soon as he woke up this morning he rolled over and put his arms around me and said he was sorry.

I very calmly laid out the issues. I've spent most of my life with sex and orgasm being two different activities. One I did with you, one I did alone. I want to have those things together. I am trying to have those things together. I feel you become defensive when I try to give you information. This has nothing to do with skill. You have all the skills you need. But there is no way for you to know the specifics of my body if you won't let me tell you. 

Blah blah - this went on for a while.

He says sorry - I will try harder. I will do better.

I ask him for the first time - way back when we were first married - did you ever wonder if I was getting off? Did you ever want to ask or did it concern you at all? He says no. He hadn't been with a partner who had mentioned it. He never knew if women were getting off or not, he lacked the training.

I said I cannot do this with you if I don't feel it's important to you. I can't get aroused enough to get off if I'm thinking you just want it over or don't care. Is this something you even care about? He says it's important to me, that is why he cares about it. He's just happy to be having sex - he doesn't give it much more thought than that. But if it's important to me he will try.

Then he said - I mean, if you had some medical condition where you couldn't get off I wouldn't be too upset. I would think - that's your problem.

I thought it best to end the conversation at that point. He said when I got home tonight he would have his A game together and I said I couldn't. He will be gone all week and I guess I have a lot to think about. I'm really hurt. 

Oh, and you will all be amused to know he never gave much thought to my faking. He was never sure anything was happening or not. When I told him I'd never gotten off he did take it personally but it wasn't because of the faking. According to him. He seemed - I don't know - like I went to a lot of trouble I didn't need to because he wasn't really paying attention.

Surprisingly - he is so thoughtful in so many other ways. He shows me he loves me daily and has taken care of me and made sure I achieved my goals. People are commenting all the time about how thoughtful and funny he is and what a great of a couple we make. 

And he's an ass in bed. I've been trying to shield his feelings and all along he's just been a lazy, selfish ass. 

The end.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh snap! He did not say that!



> He says "I really gave you so much extra last night. If I do that too much you are going to expect it all the time."


You keep insisting on A game. 

Good for you!


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"I really gave you so much extra last night. If I do that too much you are going to expect it all the time." 

un-frigging-believable
That is lazy and selfish. 


Well maybe his mind frame is that he has always looked out for himself and he just expected you to be doing the same. He could use a kick in the pants.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Insisting on his A game? He's never getting laid again.

Who has two thumbs and a strong vibrator? This girl. (Pointing at self with thumbs.)

Eff that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

And you're gonna hear me roooooaaaaarrrrrrrr!


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I am sooo sorry to hear that.


But I am so mad at the same time. 



I want to come through the screen and beat the crap out of your husband!!!!

I know my husband is selfish and lazy too, but at least when I confront him he feels bad and wants to work on things.

Yours sounds like he really doesn't care, and doesn't ever intend to. 

I am so upset for you. I don't think I could handle that. I'd probably be packing my bags. I have enough trouble with a husband who tries. If he straight up told me he didn't care and was not going to ever care, I'd probably punch him in the nose.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Last night was very bad. I was at a function. He was home. I had been thinking about the night before all day and had gotten very aroused. I mean, to the point I hadn't felt since summer. I was in pain - thats how aroused I was.
> 
> Get home - walk over to H and whisper in his ear that I had been thinking about last night all day and I cant wait to get him upstairs. I am in pain I am so hot for you right now.
> 
> ...


Take this with a grain of salt. I'm trying to be as neutral as possible while offering insight into the male brain. So please take it as information.

Sometimes, we don't do well with "gentle" prodding. Sometimes information delivered with TLC is wasted on us. Us nice guys have a phrase when someone really won't listen. Its called getting a 2x4. Its brutal, to the point and without regards to the nice guys feelings. Why? Because that's what we need.

You and your hubby have had functional problems for 25 years plus!!! One night of fumbled recovery does not make!

Here's where I'm going to 2x4 you: Faking an orgasm is your fault. You denied yourself the intimacy you needed by putting his feelings first. Quit it. Detach the emotional hose. Men communicate information, not emotion.

Now the good news! You delivered a 2x4 to your hubby! Don't waste all that good progress by being mad that he didn't recover over night! I bet money he'll be much more attentive. Don't give up on the message. Tell him he's a [email protected] for it! 

Its your job to state your needs. If he didn't know them, or doesn't understand them, its ok for clarification. If you shut him down now, you may just get exactly what you had. One sided sexual intimacy. It's said that 70% of sex is mediocre for a couple. That getting to the 30% is done with practice. Don't give up after one 70% night. 

I commend you, as I think you did a great job of just getting in there and doing something, anything. Don't give up now!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett...I don't think he is a selfish ass, he just isn't that sexual. He is telling you that straight up. Only a person who highly values sex will highly value their partner's pleasure. Otherwise, it is "just some sex" and they don't really value their own pleasure that much, either. Kind of a "I could take it or leave" type of thing. This is how all people who just aren't that sexual feel and how they describe their experience.

There is very little chance of "making" him become "more sexual".

He may act more sexual, by his choice to do so because he knows it is important to you. But he will likely never *be* more sexual.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Scarlett...I don't think he is a selfish ass, he just isn't that sexual. He is telling you that straight up. Only a person who highly values sex will highly value their partner's pleasure. Otherwise, it is "just some sex" and they don't really value their own pleasure that much, either. Kind of a "I could take it or leave" type of thing. This is how all people who just aren't that sexual feel and how they describe their experience.
> 
> There is very little chance of "making" him become "more sexual".
> 
> He may act more sexual, by his choice to do so because he knows it is important to you. But he will likely never *be* more sexual.


You've said this before and while I think you are probably right, what, if anything can be done? Anything? Come on you gotta have something?????


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Well, people can definitely choose to act outside of their "norm" but it is a choice and an effort to do so. But it has to be understood that it won't come "naturally" the way it will for a person who is more highly sexual. That doesn't mean it is "forced" it just means that they won't have that natural desire that comes along on its own in us highly sexual folks. We won't "forget" about sex, because our bodies will not let us. For less sexual people, they won't "remember" about sex, because their bodies won't remind them.

So similar to creating any new habit, a less sexual person would have to do things like put it in the calendar, do special exercises, and read up lots about it...and then make their own dedicated effort.

Maybe similar to a work out/diet routine for someone who is more inclined to be less active and not eat well. They won't necessarily like doing the work part, but hopefully the RESULTS are worth it to them.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

That actually make me feel better, faithful, as I think sometimes we just want something so much that you believe you can change it just by your want. It feels less heavy to accept I suppose.

H left on his business trip. I find myself still reacting very strongly, too strongly to even have a conversation about this. I am not usually one for anger. In fact I have had to go to therapy when I was younger to try to feel anger as I was accustomed to turning it on myself. This was a major player in my eating disorder.

So, to be feeling this much is uncomfortable and I am unaccustomed to it.

I think what happened the other night - the amount of anger I'm feeling is not balanced with what actually happened. I imagine it is a lot of years of rejections and frustrations that got triggered by the incident the other night.

H is feeling bad.. He is gone till Friday. He has sent numerous texts, saying he is very sad, He wants to make this right, etc. Which is fine - I asked him to please wait till Friday when I can calm down and start being reasonable again. 

I spent this.afternoon finding a sex therapist, I have left several messages.

Lastly, I hesitate continuing this story as it feels narcissistic. I'm under no impression that this story is unique or so interesting that it warrants numerous updates. I am torn, though, because I found this board through a Google search on a night I felt so alone and sad and so freakish. It hurts to feel like you are the only outsider - like everyone else is having the sex lives of their dreams except you. People at least should feel that they aren't alone. So if someone can find this - so be it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Lastly, I hesitate continuing this story as it feels narcissistic. I'm under no impression that this story is unique or so interesting that it warrants numerous updates. I am torn, though, because I found this board through a Google search on a night I felt so alone and sad and so freakish. It hurts to feel like you are the only outsider - like everyone else is having the sex lives of their dreams except you. People at least should feel that they aren't alone. So if someone can find this - so be it.


I have praised for this before but I'll do it again just to be sure the message sinks in.

You are incredibly generous and a brave woman! What you are chronically here is, in my opinion, a hell of a lot more common that most women will admit and men will even think. Your sharing your journey here is helping people.

I hope there are some men lurking who are learning how their delicate sense of their masculinity needs to be brought out of the closet. There is strength in vulnerability.

I hope some women are lurking and reading your thread and pulling for you because if you win this battle (together with your H) then maybe they can win this battle too!

So bravo MissScarlett!


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

just wanted to say thankyou for your original post that brought me to this site, like you I found it while doing a google search, unfortunately although I understand your point of view entirely, im afraid to report we are about 10-15 yrs ahead of your situation.

I wish I was able to convey my thoughts as clearly as you have done on the boards here, hence why I haven't had the confidence to do my own post.

I came to our situation tho from a slightly different stand point tho being unaware that women even did orgasm, and only finding out after a visit to my doc at the age of 40, this came as a big shock to my husband as he took it for granted that I had orgasmed and knew what they where, he was so far off in thinking that, this was after being together for nearly 25 yrs, that was the point in time where we started with the docs and therapist (sex) which to be honest was a complete waste of time as it served no purpose and nothing at all changed in fact things have progressively got worse as at that point I was still sharing a bed with him, I now sleep in the spare bed with my dogs for company, and although he knows I find it uncomfortable, lonely and cold he has said for me to come to bed with him, but cant understand why that isn't possible for me. its a constant reminder of his lack of any love towards me and even dislike having to go in that room just to clean or get my clothes now.

I wish you luck with your husband.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

you would like to think that most men think the way you do 2ntnuf, in my case when we where doing anything it was only done for his benefit, he didn't once concern himself other than the occasional asking if he was hurting me, and only did what he found to work well for him, I was just an instrument to aid that process


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I didn't think anything you said was contrary, 2ntnuf. I have not responded to every suggestion on this thread - but I have read each several times and have considered all of them. The male point of view I find especially intriguing. I have a hard time imagining the motives and reasoning from my husband's point of view. It help to have possible explanations. I'm surprised I haven't been really laid out by someone yet, male or female, but I would give that consideration as well. 

I do not understand the male ego - very obviously I do not understand. Both by the way I faked 10 years of orgasms to protect his feelings and to cover up my failure, as it were - my inability to get off without any work - I did believe I was supposed to be this way - and with the way I have handled this situation since. This is a difficult year in my marriage. I am not being reasonable about this. It's very emotionally driven - and I should know better for my age.

I have felt very guilty about the years of faking - however yesterday H did tell me that he never knew if I was having them or not. Sometimes I seemed more excited than others, he said, but he was not sure. My faking was limited to heavy breathing and sound making. I never said the actual words that I was having one. We never had a conversation in which I talked about orgasms or confirmed I was having any (or not) .

Not.to excuse myself, of course. It was wrong for several reasons. I am only surprised that I wasn't selling it as much as I thought in was.

Because I am not faking, though, he is aware there is no success an thus he tries less, not believing it will happen. How to get him for try more when I have no guarantee that it will work - this is how this thread started out. Of course it's been on a tangent since then!


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Unloved - I hope you will stick around. I have met a lot of great people on this board.

Can you tell me what they did in sex therapy? I am unsure of what to expect. Did I read on the other thread at this point you have not had an orgasm? Are you wanting to stay with your husband?

I understand the resentment. It's strange how such an intimate act can be so void of emotional intimacy. With my husband and I - I don't think I ever noticed how much we didn't talk about sex until I started wanting to talk about it. We have been through so much in life together - but can't get the words out when it comes to the facts of sexual satisfaction.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I can do it for myself - if you were talking about orgasm. I never imagine it would be so difficult for him - if he tried. He had never tried, in my opinion, so I assumed if he started trying it would just happen.

There have been psychological issues on my side - performance anxiety - plus I've been getting myself off since I was a teen - nobody else ever had. I wonder if my body is just so accustomed to that one specific way of getting off. If he can't replicate it exactly it doesn't seem to happen.

In any case, though, I will certainly take your best wishes as I could use them.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

MissScarlett said:


> Unloved - I hope you will stick around. I have met a lot of great people on this board.
> 
> Can you tell me what they did in sex therapy? I am unsure of what to expect. Did I read on the other thread at this point you have not had an orgasm? Are you wanting to stay with your husband?
> 
> I understand the resentment. It's strange how such an intimate act can be so void of emotional intimacy. With my husband and I - I don't think I ever noticed how much we didn't talk about sex until I started wanting to talk about it. We have been through so much in life together - but can't get the words out when it comes to the facts of sexual satisfaction.


sex theraphy - involved me going and speaking to the woman and giving her all my history and what I hoped we could achieve, then the same for him, we had to follow the sensate focus plan (disasterous for us) this involved 3 times a week having to massage each other without being allowed to touch breast or genitals, and to take note of the person doing the massage the feeling that evoked during it, feelings? I would fall asleep! and hubby would be left with a raging hard on! each week we had to return to her to discuss how it went, I would be sat there listening to him and as far as I was concerned I would be left thinking jeeeez was it me he did all that stuff to? cause I certainly didn't have any of that done at all!

anyway this went on for about 3 months, sensate focus should have meant by that time we would have been having sex but we never progressed at all, the final straw came when during discussions she asked a question regarding arousal in me and I told her I haven't a clue what that actually is and certainly didn't feel any differently then say when I was doing housework or some other task, she then went on to make a statement regarding when I was raped while at work, and described the whole thing as "being of no consequence" it was at that point I lost all self control with the woman and got up to hit her but hubby recognised that then thr me out the room he then said a few choice words to her and we left never to go back, I did bring it to the attn. of my doc who had sent us there, but nothing came of it and we where left to our own devices of going back to doing absolutely nothing at all


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

unlovedbyhim said:


> sex theraphy - involved me going and speaking to the woman and giving her all my history and what I hoped we could achieve, then the same for him, we had to follow the sensate focus plan (disasterous for us) this involved 3 times a week having to massage each other without being allowed to touch breast or genitals, and to take note of the person doing the massage the feeling that evoked during it, feelings? I would fall asleep! and hubby would be left with a raging hard on! each week we had to return to her to discuss how it went, I would be sat there listening to him and as far as I was concerned I would be left thinking jeeeez was it me he did all that stuff to? cause I certainly didn't have any of that done at all!
> 
> anyway this went on for about 3 months, sensate focus should have meant by that time we would have been having sex but we never progressed at all, the final straw came when during discussions she asked a question regarding arousal in me and I told her I haven't a clue what that actually is and certainly didn't feel any differently then say when I was doing housework or some other task, *she then went on to make a statement regarding when I was raped while at work, and described the whole thing as "being of no consequence" it was at that point I lost all self control with the woman and got up to hit her but hubby recognised that then thr me out the room he then said a few choice words to her and we left never to go back,* I did bring it to the attn. of my doc who had sent us there, but nothing came of it and we where left to our own devices of going back to doing absolutely nothing at all


Could you talk a little more about the part I bolded? I think this may be a very important part of understanding what's going on in your marriage.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> I spent this.afternoon finding a sex therapist, I have left several messages.


Consider a therapist for yourself. If you are having issues with your anger and discomfort with it, getting some help for yourself is advised.

While I continue to think your husband has given up, there is no excuse for his comment. I hope it is that he did not express himself well, but you two both need a safe place to be heard and to listen. I don't think that you two can change the dynamic without a third party to assist.

I wish you luck.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Could you talk a little more about the part I bolded? I think this may be a very important part of understanding what's going on in your marriage.


I am always amazed at how some people fly right by these sorts of issues when trying to figure out low desire.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I actually enjoy reading your thread MissScarlett -so write away.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

:iagree:

Please don't stop sharing your story!

I find it encouraging that someone else has similar problems to me. I enjoy reading about you, and crying with with you.

I don't find it narcissistic at all. I think your story may help others in the future.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> There have been psychological issues on my side - performance anxiety - plus I've been getting myself off since I was a teen - nobody else ever had. I wonder if my body is just so accustomed to that one specific way of getting off. If he can't replicate it exactly it doesn't seem to happen.


Dan Savage discusses this sometimes in his column, though usually it's with regard to men who have trouble climaxing with a partner because of the "death grip" they learn as a youth when masturbating. 

I wonder if his advice isn't practical here? Stop masturbating. Stop getting yourself off, EVER. Make your body so enormously desperate for an orgasm that it simply has no other choice than to relearn how to do it in a different way. 

I'm not a sex therapist, nor do I play one of TV. But who knows?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

unlovedbyhim said:


> I haven't a clue what that actually is and certainly didn't feel any differently then say when I was doing housework or some other task


Without trying to be provocative, I'm really unclear why your husband seems to be taking the brunt of the criticism for your marriage's sexual failings.

From what little you've written here, I see someone who is pretty darned close to being asexual. I'm not sure any man would have had much more success than your current husband. You've never had an orgasm in your life. 

Am I wrong?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I'd swear I saw you in something. You're portrait(avatar) looks familiar. hahaha


Who, me? The slack-jawed yokel participating in a marriage forum? 

Cletus: _[after showing Cargill a trick with his thumb]_ You want to know how I do it? 
Russ Cargill: Four generations of inbreeding? 
Cletus: _[Flattered]_ Oh, you.


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

When we did our sex therapy, it went something like this:

We went together to the first session, and it was for 2 hours. Our therapist asked us about the "current state" of our relationship, the history of our relationship (how we met, when, sexual history - together and apart, kids, etc.), and what we wanted to get out of the therapy (i.e. the "desired state").

We then had a couple of individual sessions. My wife had a lot of issues from her childhood (physical and sexual abuse from a relative, strict Catholic upbringing, abusive brother who eventually died from an overdose, to name some). The nearly 10 years we spent with infertility treatments was also a big issue for her, feeling inadequate, sex becoming forced and mechanical, etc.

I had issues related to a strict Catholic upbringing and guilt about sex. My Dad was also a workaholic, and wasn't around a lot when I was a kid, so I had some problems with seeking affection and placing an inappropriately high value on my getting approval and affirmation through sex. I also suffered from the infertility issue.

We would have periodic joint therapy sessions, but most of them early on were individual sessions. We were able to work through most of our issues, but it was not always easy or comfortable. We both had to admit a lot of things to the therapist and to ourselves that we were not doing very well (communication, showing non-sexual affection, meeting each others emotional and sexual needs), and we had exercises to work on those areas. We did some sensate focus, nude non-sexual hugging, affirmations, sexual exercises, and just some very deep conversations about our expectations, hopes, and dreams that we never really expressed verbally to each other.

Bottom line is that our therapist became a conduit for ideas and thoughts between the two of us. Many of the issues could not have been explored and/or resolved without her help.

I'm a big believer in what we went through, I think it saved our marriage, and it worked because we sought help before it was too late, and we were both committed to doing the therapy, and making it work. Finding the right therapist was key, we went to couple of others before we settled on the one we worked with.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Could you talk a little more about the part I bolded? I think this may be a very important part of understanding what's going on in your marriage.


the issue of me getting raped has no bearing at all on our situation as this was going on prior to that event. I have had therapy for the rape and I just feel pity for the man (thing) now, I also refuse to let it interfere with my life as this just gives the man (thing) the power that at the time he was trying to take from me


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Without trying to be provocative, I'm really unclear why your husband seems to be taking the brunt of the criticism for your marriage's sexual failings.
> 
> From what little you've written here, I see someone who is pretty darned close to being asexual. I'm not sure any man would have had much more success than your current husband. You've never had an orgasm in your life.
> 
> Am I wrong?


Cletus my husband is getting the criticism due to how he chooses to do absolutely nothing i.e. head in the bucket. and somehow refuses to see that we do have a major problem that requires sorting one way or the other, with agreement on both sides, so as for me being asexual? no I don't think I am, in a situation of enforced celibacy yes, lets face it if I was asexual would I be on here and making the comments? I doubt that.

as for the orgasm, yes your right I have never had one from any means in my life


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

unlovedbyhim said:


> the issue of me getting raped has no bearing at all on our situation as this was going on prior to that event. I have had therapy for the rape and I just feel pity for the man (thing) now, I also refuse to let it interfere with my life as this just gives the man (thing) the power that at the time he was trying to take from me


Okay, that door is shut, I respect that. Let's move on...



unlovedbyhim said:


> Cletus my husband is getting the criticism due to how he chooses to do absolutely nothing i.e. head in the bucket. and somehow refuses to see that we do have a major problem that requires sorting one way or the other, with agreement on both sides, so as for me being asexual? no I don't think I am, in a situation of enforced celibacy yes, lets face it if I was asexual would I be on here and making the comments? I doubt that.
> 
> as for the orgasm, yes your right I have never had one from any means in my life


Some very personal questions...

Do you masturbate? If so, how often?
Do you fantasize about sex? If so, do you feel shame or embarrassment about the dirty things that pop into your head?

I spent the first half of my marriage not being able to orgasm. I had to teach myself how to do it. I masturbated, every day. I had to learn to feel comfortable touching myself, had to learn what felt good where, had to learn to be okay with the feelings arousal brings. It took months and months to get to that point.

I had to learn to fantasize,I'm had to learn to be okay with the images and scenarios that popped into my head. I was horribly ashamed at just how kinky and dirty my mind was. It took over a year before I could allow a sexual fantasy to flow to it's natural conclusion. I was about 36-38 ish when I had my first ever orgasm.

I'm 51 now and I have learned to orgasm frequently, easily and joyfully. But I couldn't ask my husband to help me get there until I could get myself there.

Like you,min the beginning, I completely blamed my husband for my lack or orgasm. Like you, I didn't know I was supposed to be orgasming and like your H, my H never indicated he cared one way or the other.

I've walked in your shoes and lemme tell ya I am so glad to get those damn shoes off!

It takes work, but it can be done.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Okay, that door is shut, I respect that. Let's move on...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

unlovedbyhim said:


> Anon Pink said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, that door is shut, I respect that. Let's move on...
> ...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

unlovedbyhim said:


> Anon Pink said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, that door is shut, I respect that. Let's move on...
> ...


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Okay, that's a good starting point.

When you touch your body to masturbate, do you go right to your genitals, or do you warm yourself up first by sensually touching your arms, your neck, your breasts, your nipples, then slowly work your way down to your vulva?

When you say you don't get any feedback from your body telling you if you're doing it right or wrong it's important to distinguish that only you can tell if it feels right or wrong. Some women like a lot of pressure around their clitoris but not on their clitoris, other like light pressure around to build up sensation, encourage blood flow, and then building up pressure directly on their clitoris.

Does that sound like something you can do?[/QUOTE]

when i said i don't get anything i mean take apen amd make a mark on a bit of paper, then get a rubber and try to remove the mark from the paper, it gives me that level of feedback from my body! i.e. if i rub my arm, then that is all i feel a rub, the same with anywhere else on my body, as for the clitoris that feels nothing more than the pressure of touch it could be my big toe i was pressing on for all it does


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Cletus said:


> unlovedbyhim said:
> 
> 
> > You lack awareness of your own sexuality, assuming any such sexuality exists within you, and even that's not clear from what you state here.
> ...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

unlovedbyhim said:


> Cletus said:
> 
> 
> > to be honest im total confussed by what your trying to say/ ask, my sexuality? im female if that's what your asking?
> ...


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

and here lies my main problem! i have a husband that is totally uninterested in touching my body for whatever reason he sees fit to keep to himself.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I am just curious what changed ten years ago? -that after 25 years of marriage was a problem?


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

what changed? he did, until then i hadn't said a word about the rape to him or anyone else for that matter, those few days of talking/arguing and we where ready for divorcing, and discussing the arrangements, and for some reason it just cam out and i told him. clearly he was shocked, but that had never been my intention to use that for my gain and trap him. i had kinda been pushed into it when talking with him, im not going into that conversation tho and then this is what brought about the need to see the doc and then all my problems just trebled then!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

unlovedbyhim said:


> when i said i don't get anything i mean take apen amd make a mark on a bit of paper, then get a rubber and try to remove the mark from the paper, it gives me that level of feedback from my body! i.e. if i rub my arm, then that is all i feel a rub, the same with anywhere else on my body, as for the clitoris that feels nothing more than the pressure of touch it could be my big toe i was pressing on for all it does


Are you saying that you can NOT feel the difference between a light brushing on your arms, a light scratch with finger nails and a harder use of pressure?

Do you ever get back scratches? Have you ever had a massage? Have you ever had a sore muscle and rubbed it out? 

This is the difference I am talking about. Some touched feel good and some feel like relief and some feel really good, like getting that mosquito bite on your back scratched. Ahhhhh!




unlovedbyhim said:


> Cletus said:
> 
> 
> > to be honest im total confussed by what your trying to say/ ask, my sexuality? im female if that's what your asking?
> ...


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"those few days of talking/arguing and we where ready for divorcing, and discussing the arrangements"

"...and for some reason it just cam out and i told him"


I don't understand, 
You where already talking about a divorce before this lack of orgasm and rape came up? 

Or you where arguing about something else and it came out and then you talked about divorce?

So either way, that was 10 years ago, what happened with the divorce? Did you two just decide that neither really wanted it? 

Seems like there must be something there or either one of you would have already moved on.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

unlovedbyhim said:


> and here lies my main problem! i have a husband that is totally uninterested in touching my body for whatever reason he sees fit to keep to himself.


I'm sorry, I don't think it's your main problem.



> she asked a question regarding arousal in me and I told her I haven't a clue what that actually is and certainly didn't feel any differently then say when I was doing housework or some other task,


I would probably do the same thing your husband has done given the circumstances - a wife who seemingly has no sexual arousal of any kind. Better to ball up any and all sexual feelings I might have for such a wife than continually bang my head against a wall that, from all appearances, will never come down.

I'm not saying this to bash you, only to point out that the laymen's definition of mental illness is to continue to do the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. Perhaps your husband has decided to choose the path of least insanity.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

unlovedbyhim said:


> what changed? he did, until then i hadn't said a word about the rape to him or anyone else for that matter, those few days of talking/arguing and we where ready for divorcing, and discussing the arrangements, and for some reason it just cam out and i told him. clearly he was shocked, but that had never been my intention to use that for my gain and trap him. i had kinda been pushed into it when talking with him, im not going into that conversation tho and then this is what brought about the need to see the doc and then all my problems just trebled then!


I'm trying to respect your desire not to go into it, and of course you don't have to, but you need to understand that you may have overcome the trauma of the rape, you haven't adapted to how that rape changed your sexuality. It destroyed how you can feel things as good or bad. It changed your ability to let your mind feel a touch as a good touch because if you let that in you have to let in the others.

Please consider getting back into therapy, sex therapy. Your husband cannot solve this problem for you. You have to solve it. How can he give you an orgasm if you can't give yourself one?


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

yes the divorce thing came up before the rape info was disclosed, it was about the lack of sex, this convo was instigated by my husband who claimed that he couldn't live in that situation, which is one of the reasons i find so confussing now because he is the one that is withholding sex or any discussion as to his thought processes now. the divorce part is somewhat on the back burner, but during times of argement since then it has been made very clear that he doesn't want me around, however he also knows that i have absolutely no where to go or turn to over this


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Please consider getting back into therapy, sex therapy. Your husband cannot solve this problem for you. You have to solve it. How can he give you an orgasm if you can't give yourself one?


I 100% agree with you, to 4 significant figures.

I think my wife can count on one hand the number of times she's masturbated to orgasm in her entire life, but it's relatively easy for her through intercourse, though it took a year of practice when we were first married to get it to work (I still remember the first time).

Just a six-sigma data point for your enjoyment.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Unloved, MissScarlett has been very generous allowing all this in her thread. Please consider making a new one so that you can be directly addressed and your issues brought out fully. It's very difficult to tell which posts are directed to you and which are directed to MissScarlett.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Are you saying that you can NOT feel the difference between a light brushing on your arms, a light scratch with finger nails and a harder use of pressure? no of course i can feel then things happening, but they are what they are, a scratch or whatever,
> 
> Do you ever get back scratches? Have you ever had a massage? Have you ever had a sore muscle and rubbed it out? yes hes rubbed my back when im in pain, that was the type of thing he did when he was meant to be doing sensate focus on me, not a sports rub down!
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I 100% agree with you, to 4 significant figures.
> 
> I think my wife can count on one hand the number of times she's masturbated to orgasm in her entire life, but it's relatively easy for her through intercourse.
> 
> Just a six-sigma data point for your enjoyment.


I guess that why you and I get along so well. You dig the outliers...admit it!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

unlovedbyhim said:


> i haven't a clue what arousal actually is


Which is a common problem among women whose sexuality has been subverted due to trauma.

You need a personal approach. You need someone you can actively talk to. You need someone to guide you through the process of reclaiming what is rightfully yours. Your sexuality belong to you but the THING took it. You can get it back! It takes work.

Can you find a therapist in your area who specializes in trauma recovery?


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Please consider getting back into therapy, sex therapy. Your husband cannot solve this problem for you. You have to solve it. How can he give you an orgasm if you can't give yourself one?[/QUOTE]


that is not an option, im in the uk and that requires help from your doctor, they do not have any other therapists available other than the one we saw beforehand, i do not wish to ever see that woman again in my life


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"yes the divorce thing came up before the rape info was disclosed, it was about the lack of sex"

Who was complaining about lack of sex -you or him? 

"because he is the one that is withholding sex or any discussion as to his thought processes now"

Is it because he needs extra positive reinforcement? In other words, now that he knows that you are not having an orgasm he thinks that you do not really need it and are just doing it for him?

And so the separate bedrooms is just his way to turn off his sexual desire because he believes that is what would be best for you.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

usmarriedguy said:


> And so the separate bedrooms is just his way to turn off his sexual desire because he believes that is what would be best for you.


And for him as well, if his wife's satisfaction is an important part of his satisfaction and he knows that he cannot provide it.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

"Is it because he needs extra positive reinforcement? In other words, now that he knows that you are not having an orgasm he thinks that you do not really need it and are just doing it for him?" well nothing has really changed over that, because i have only ever had sex with him for him, i got nothing out of it at all. well other than a good nights sleep after! as for the separate beds that is my choice to sleep elsewhere, i cannot lay next to him and hope to sleep not knowing if that is all we will be doing or lay next to a man that clearly doesn't want me for anything more than housekeeper duties


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Who was complaining about lack of sex -you or him? 

him


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

unlovedbyhim said:


> "Is it because he needs extra positive reinforcement? In other words, now that he knows that you are not having an orgasm he thinks that you do not really need it and are just doing it for him?" well nothing has really changed over that, because i have only ever had sex with him for him, i got nothing out of it at all. well other than a good nights sleep after! as for the separate beds that is my choice to sleep elsewhere, i cannot lay next to him and hope to sleep not knowing if that is all we will be doing or lay next to a man that clearly doesn't want me for anything more than housekeeper duties


I sure can't comment on your relationship much, with what little I know, but here's a 10 quid note that says a good shagging truly enjoyed by all around would go a long way towards healing some of the obvious hurt.

Is that something you want and are wiling to work hard to achieve?


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Cletus said:


> I sure can't comment on your relationship much, with what little I know, but here's a 10 quid note that says a good shagging truly enjoyed by all around would go a long way towards healing some of the obvious hurt.
> 
> Is that something you want and are wiling to work hard to achieve?


Cletus, i hope my tenner is in the post! i cant have a shagging can i, he wont do anything!!! its not that i haven't asked him why he wont, just he wont give answer


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

unlovedbyhim said:


> Cletus, i hope my tenner is in the post! i cant have a shagging can i, he wont do anything!!! its not that i haven't asked him why he wont, just he wont give answer


Hmm. We're both speaking the same language but for some reason things aren't getting parsed correctly.

Having sex is not the same as making love, if you will. Any ol' vagina in a storm is not acceptable for some of us, nor is sex even with our spouse any good if she isn't enjoying it either.

You're clearly not enjoying it. That may not be your fault, and it may not be something you can easily fix, but it isn't a particularly attractive option for a husband either. He can get that much enjoyment from his right hand, and it doesn't feel abused afterward.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

sex is sex isn't it? whats the difference?


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

So he was complaining about lack of sex to the point of divorce but you are saying now you want sex?

Where you withholding sex for a long time because you where not really enjoying it?

Or was he wanting too much sex and you where having to turn him down a lot?

I guess I fail to see how it went from him being unhappy about not getting sex to you being unhappy about not getting sex?

I have seen a few guys here that seem to be very upset if their wives only feel like doing it once a month or less.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

So he was complaining about lack of sex to the point of divorce but you are saying now you want sex? not neddessarily want sex but want to feel loved and desired and wated etc etc etc 

Where you withholding sex for a long time because you where not really enjoying it?i wasn't withholding as such, just couldn't see thepoint of doing it, 

Or was he wanting too much sex and you where having to turn him down a lot? erm we only ever did it maybe once a month at best! and that was from the time we first got married, although it was extremely painful for me, but back then i didn't know any differently and thought it was totally normal, it took 25 yrs to find out it wasnt

I guess I fail to see how it went from him being unhappy about not getting sex to you being unhappy about not getting sex?

I have seen a few guys here that seem to be very upset if their wives only feel like doing it once a month or less. 
once a month!!! try maybe once every five yrs or so?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

unlovedbyhim said:


> Please consider getting back into therapy, sex therapy. Your husband cannot solve this problem for you. You have to solve it. How can he give you an orgasm if you can't give yourself one?
> 
> 
> that is not an option, im in the uk and that requires help from your doctor, they do not have any other therapists available other than the one we saw beforehand, i do not wish to ever see that woman again in my life


I don't believe that's true. There is one therapist in the whole of the UK that you could see? Nonsense.



unlovedbyhim said:


> Cletus, i hope my tenner is in the post! i cant have a shagging can i, he wont do anything!!! its not that i haven't asked him why he wont, just he wont give answer


Why do you care anyway? It does nothing for you. And obviously, he's not interested in sex because it's like doing the housework for you. 

Anyway, you need to start your own thread.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

Lyris, I will be moving this to my own thread tomorrow hopefully, but before I do that, I have to say this, unless you have the same doctor as me and live in the area I do then please don't jump to conclusions.

also as you have no idea how I actually feel regarding any of this stating I don't care is unjust! the actual act of sex does nothing for me at all, but it would go someway to showing that he does actually care for me if he where to make any move towards sex, at best I get a kiss on an evening before bed, the type you get from your children before they retire! in 35 yrs he has never said that I am beautiful etc etc so please don't jump to conclusions on my life.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I'm not jumping to conclusions. I'm responding to what you write. 

It seems obvious to me that most men would not be interested in having sex with a wife who felt nothing and got nothing out if it. I know mine wouldn't be. 

And I have no doubt at all that you could, if you chose to prioritise it, find another therapist. You might just need to pay more for it or something.


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## unlovedbyhim (Jan 20, 2014)

I cannot pay for therapy full stop! we just don't have the funds to do that, the nhs is the only way we could get this kind of help, however due to lack of funding in this area of medical help there is not the specialists available, the only person they have is the unsuitable woman that we had the misfortune to come across last time we went.

and what might seem obvious to you, in your life, is hard to understand from my husband of 31 yrs! when he refuses to actually try anything or even talk about this subject, which is the only reason I responded to MS's post in the first place as clearly my husband has little confidence in this area at all, and, although I have no other experience than the life I have lived with him I have many many times been the one to start these very difficult conversations - not him - not once!


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"once a month!!! try maybe once every five yrs or so?"

Sorry about the confusion I was talking about maybe he had gotten mad and wanted a divorce ten years ago because the frequency was not enough 

Or he did not feel your heart was in it which is very understandable since you do not actually get any physical enjoyment out of it. 


"not neddessarily want sex but want to feel loved and desired and wated etc etc etc"


So you do not really care if there is sex you just want him to love you.

"at best I get a kiss on an evening before bed, the type you get from your children before they retire!" 

Something more than this, and sex is not necessary but is better than no sex? 

Most men really tie feelings of love with sex and they find it difficult to be passionate about a woman who seems disinterested in sex. Also he may be experiencing guilt and shame for his part in this. 

Was it that he never wanted sex more than once a month? That would be very low drive for a young man. If that was what he was like at 20's than at 50+ maybe he just lost all interest himself.

Anyway moving into another bedroom does not seem to be a good way of increasing the intimacy and romance you seem to desire. You seem really unhappy with him and I guess you are both going to have to decide if you both are willing to let the past pass and make a fresh go of it. 

I guess some or maybe most guys are kind of dense. But just because he has been stupid does not mean he does not care about you.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I never realized how difficult it is to get your mind and body together for sexual matters. I think in my case I have a learned response to not getting very aroused during sex. Years and years of knowing there is no need to go above a 3. Ones mind becomes trained to the stimulus.

Even alone, masturbation, there is still an amount of control. A higher level of arousal somewhat - but still not the same as I think it could be. I've followed the exact same pattern of masturbation for 10 years. Same room, same position, same stimulus. A little fantasizing, results and back to what in was doing.

Now there is a third type of arousal - when things are going well with H, it's more of a full body arousal, not contained to the genitals. Although this has yet to yield results - it's something that has potential. I think. Life continues to surprise me, really. To think you can learn a new feeling at 44.

My point being - I do think the mind and the body get trained. I've seen enough stories here of men who loved sex become asexual (temporarily) due to the trained response of rejection and depression.

I think your therapist (unloved) was probably on then right course with the non sexual touching. Perhaps things had already gone too far with your husband by that point. Do you plan to remain married to him?

I know Dr Laura Berman starts with having a woman watch some romance/sexual/porn dare I say - and measuring the response. Then she moves to a strong stimulus - electric vibrator- to see if a response can be elicited.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett...Can you just focus on the mental arousal for now? And I don't mean fantasy, I mean mental/emotional arousal for your husband? Where is it? Can you reach right in there and feel it any time you want to?

I can feel that arousal for my H anytime I want...and yet, it does not translate directly into physical arousal and desire for an O.

What it does do, however, is make my body primed and lubed up for sex (which is still physical arousal, but it is mostly mental).

For me, these are two different types of feelings....and while an O is great, I much prefer the entire body buzz of being mentally and emotionally close to my H and then getting wet from it.

I'm just offering different ways to look at this, to take the focus off the O.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

In other news H has made it a point to get back to town tonight. I asked him not to. I have been making great progress on sorting out my feelings and writing down my talking notes and wanted no more sex until this conversation took place.

H does not want conversation. In fact he is saying no need to talk, no need. I'm going to do better. I've been skating on this issue and I'm going to do better.

Of course this is not acceptable. Not talking about sex created this entire mess and I'm done with it. Done. We are talking, period.

I did realize though that he is likely afraid to talk because he fears I will give him bad feedback. I now remember several times he shut down sexual conversation by saying - this is a trick - you ask me a fantasy and then when its your turn you will give me a list of things I'm doing wrong.

I am pretty sure this is his basis for not talking about sex in general or what happened the other night.

He seems to be under the impression that having sex with me will keep me from pressing these discussions. They are going to happen, though.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Faithful - I get what you are saying and yes, I can focus on that. This whole thing started out as an orgasm issue but that isn't really the problem. Like anything else it a symptom of the problem. I can deal without the orgasms. What I can't deal with anymore is feeling no more personal to H than my vibrator is to me. I cannot keep doing this his way. 

Not to be confused with a lack of love for me. Things are one way in the bedroom and another outside of it. I have no complaints with his treatment otherwise.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Faithful - I get what you are saying and yes, I can focus on that. This whole thing started out as an orgasm issue but that isn't really the problem. Like anything else it a symptom of the problem. I can deal without the orgasms. What I can't deal with anymore is feeling no more personal to H than my vibrator is to me. I cannot keep doing this his way.
> 
> Not to be confused with a lack of love for me. Things are one way in the bedroom and another outside of it. I have no complaints with his treatment otherwise.


Exactly!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett, if there is a tragedy in your life and your husband's life...do you hold each other? Do you feel his support of you at that time? Do you cling to each other, or go separately into yourselves to self-soothe? Just curious about your connection.

I know you do not feel his desire for you, your body, etc. But do you feel his love and support? And not just surface level, but that deep level?

I think Anon would say no, she doesn't feel that support from her H on a day to day basis (correct me if wrong, Anon) but Scarlett...do you and your H have that?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Also Scarlett...I wanted to come back and offer you one more thing...which is validation.

If I knew my husband wasn't that into sex or me or whatever is up with your H, no matter what the reasons were...I wouldn't be able to get into sex either.

I understand everything you are saying, perfectly.

My H is into me and makes it clear to me. This is a huge reason why I am so hot for him all the time...it is much easier when it is a two-way street and it is expressed openly and often.

So...I know I keep coming around with tidbits about how to focus on this or that, intimacy, etc...but in the end...I don't think I could commit to doing what you are doing. I have to feel desired to be horny for another person. No exceptions.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

If there is a tragedy we do not cling to each other. He prefers to ignore the thing has happened and I grieve pretty deeply. 

However, if it's just me that has had something bad happen - he is very supportive. 

As I've said, he travels quite a bit. Even if he is 6 states away, if something goes wrong here he can find a way to fix it. If I tell him I have a problem and I need him to solve it - he will. (As I've said several times that is one thing about him that is ironic in this particular situation.) In all other situations he is able to think outside the box and get things done. 

But anyway. I admit that our sexual attraction wasn't the basis for our romance. I saw a good man who was dependable and funny and fun to be around and he has loved me. 

I don't feel (usually) when we have sex he is really that into me. I have felt over time that he is just thinking about himself being able to get off. He has not been focused on my pleasure - and there is a lot to be had without an orgasm even. 

To be fair, though, when he is trying I do feel it. He is capable of that, to communicate sexually in that way, that he does care about me. 

The unfortunate thing is that he so quickly slides back into the usual.

Of course I can't say if it can be fixed or not. I have had a very sobering 2 months considering my options.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> If there is a tragedy we do not cling to each other. He prefers to ignore the thing has happened and I grieve pretty deeply.
> 
> However, if it's just me that has had something bad happen - he is very supportive.
> 
> ...


Your option is that your pleasure has to be the priority at least half the time or you will seek a different lover. IE: divorce. Life is short and this is not how you will live your life.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

My wife is like that, very shaky ground to get her to change anything from our usual routine because it could be taken as a criticism that what we are currently doing is not good enough.

I do not have any solid idea for a way around that other than introduce changes in small steps over a longer period of time while also trying to build confidence.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

MissScarlett said:


> I now remember several times he shut down sexual conversation by saying - this is a trick - you ask me a fantasy and then when its your turn you will give me a list of things I'm doing wrong.


Any basis for this? He needs to work on these issues, but be careful that sex does not become all work all the time (for either of you). 



> He seems to be under the impression that having sex with me will keep me from pressing these discussions. They are going to happen, though.


That is what you need to do. You know his habits as far as avoiding issues. It is on you to confront that. Good luck.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Miss Scarlett has a hopeful update - 

This week has been spent in negotiations. It seems enough was said in anger last weekend, followed by pouting on both parts, that we reached a state of getting down to brass tacks.

H took the initiative of a sit down, write down negotiation meeting, much more like his business side and not the teenage boy side that one sees in the bedroom. (Lest anyone think me too harsh we have both remained sexually immature - it's not just him.) Having an actual discussion on this topic was a breath of fresh air.

I feel we were able to negotiate an understanding on sexual expectations. We are not born sexual soulmates - given - but perhaps we will be able to split the differences and act like reasonable adults.

Last week I thought H was a huge a-holio for his confession that he didn't concern himself over my orgasms. He is not a TAM man. He confesses no difference in our encounters in which I faked, I obviously did not get off or when I have gotten off. Neither of those 3 scenarios diminish his afterglow.

That is a ****ish thing to say, isn't it?

Surprisingly it ended up making a huge difference. We started to have sex and, for the first time, I didnt fear for his manly pride. This whole drama over seeking an orgasm was still so much about him. Oh, I was trying to make you feel good so I faked and then I got so much anxiety over your feelings that I couldn't even try for an orgasm. Suddenly it was like - nothing that happens is going to affect how he feels so I have to look out for myself.

He did get back with the oral, (TG!) He was down for about 15 min. Made his way back up - figures - but then went back down again. He says - I'm going to do this all night. During the third 15 min I feel something start to happen. I don't know who was more surprised, me or him. As a bonus this was from a flat zero - I had even tried to talk him out of sex as I wasn't feeling it.

Albeit unromantic - I feel good about how things have gone this week. I can't waste any more time wishing I had made a better sexual match as I don't have a time machine. Not to mention- he is a good match for me in many other ways. Instead of getting down on 25 year old Miss Scarlett I was reminded of how I came to make the decision I did. He is willing to split the difference, he took the opportunity to negotiate a solution. I feel more sexually grown up than I ever have. Marriages have been built on less.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I also must add that this is no more to me than another step - but a step in the right direction I think. I'm far from thinking all is solved, but I feel hopeful in any case.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Awesome sauce!


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

That sounds good, just keep him improving.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

'Atta girl.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I also must add that this is no more to me than another step - but a step in the right direction I think. I'm far from thinking all is solved, but I feel hopeful in any case.


Keep going like a baby learning to crawl, standup, walk and then run.


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