# Hindsight is 20/20. What red flags and warnings did you miss or ignore before you got married?



## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

What's up guys and gals! Title says it all. I'll start off with a few to get things going, can't list them all at once or else this post would be a mile long. Let me also say this, in all seriousness this is not an easy thing to look at without feeling like a complete idiot. It's easy to beat ourselves up and say damn I should have seen this coming. While that might be true, we're also human.

You've heard the phrases about how you're the sum of the 5 people you hang around with the most or some say show me your friends and I'll show you your future. This one right here would have saved me so much trouble. I fell for the old "yeah her family is effed up but she's the good one". That only works in the movies. Her friends (and family) are almost all overweight, single, multiple kids from from multiple guys, and later on (after marriage) I found out several of them had or were currently cheating on their SOs.

Another big one that I straight up ignored was she did not have a relationship with her father or have any type of father figure growing up due to the fact her mother has been married 5 times. So now as a woman she doesn't have any idea of what having a man in her life can add. I would also use my armchair PhD to say that watching her mom go through men taught her to not value relationships. 

Those are a few things, looking back she had more red flags than a Chinese military parade.

What ones did you miss?

Thanks.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Anger
Absolute need to control
Mommy issues
Daddy issues
Anger


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Anger issues
Alcohol (copious "recreational" drinking and claims it's ok to drink a lot because he only does it occasionally and has high alcohol tolerance)
Friendships with attractive women only who he wanted me to like (which is just twisted given his infidelity)
Disconnect between what he says and what he actually does


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Secrecy in all things.


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

We're still married so my red flags probably won't seem as debilitating. For me it was immaturity and coddling parents. Those caused us a lot of issues early on. 
I'm sure my wife could give you a list for me too. Coddling parents can limit your choices as the spouse has to satisfy them in any major decisions and the immaturity led to a lot of ups and downs generally speaking. In the end we cured it by moving 900 miles away from her folks and getting her pregnant. Bumpy but successful.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Heavy "social" drinking.
Silent treatment as a way to display displeasure/anger.
Avoidance of emotionally-laden issues.

Shame. On. Me.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Overly dramatic.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Ignored how quickly my ex wife pressed for us to get close while dating. Pressed harder still to get married. She is a covert narcissist.


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

I'm not sure if saw any of the warning signs before we got married. All my friends did and none of them said anything to me until she wanted to file for the divorce. 

But some of the signs that I saw thinking back after she dropped the bombshell on me were...

An interest in a friend of hers. When she moved out, she followed her girlfriend (yes, in _that_ way) as she moved from Air Force Base to AF Base. By the time the divorce was settled (she kept moving before the proceedings could take place). Turns out I was her last chance at understanding herself. 

The one time we tried to have sex, she said it was painful for her and that she needed to see a doctor about it...and never did.

A gradually increasing distance between us

Those were the only signs I saw as things were going south.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm still happily married, so mine won't seem that bad either, but I completely underestimated the power his parents had (yes, past tense, they no longer have it) over him.

Not in a coddling way, but an overbearing, critical, judgemental, bullying way. That's what brought me to TAM, bloody in laws. He became like a deer in headlights. It caused MANY an argument and put a big strain on our marriage. Luckily, he finally realised what was happening was a repeat of what happened in his first marriage and FINALLY stood up to them.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

My ex wore Bugle Boy jeans and watched The Golden Girls with his mother.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

notmyjamie said:


> My ex wore Bugle Boy jeans and watched The Golden Girls with his mother.


****, sorry, but I made sure to not be drinking when I saw that you posted here. Good idea. 

Wishing you the happiness you always deserved.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

The fact that I had to initiate the first time we had sex. And the fact that the sex was really bad. 


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

That she was still in love with her ex boyfriend and he with her. I knew something was not quite right but damn this girl wanted to marry me and I was in love. Imagine me 25 years later connecting the dots and realizing the truth. If it was not for this forum I would likely still be walking around clueless.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

CharlieParker said:


> ****, sorry, but I made sure to not be drinking when I saw that you posted here. Good idea.
> 
> Wishing you the happiness you always deserved.


In my defense, the minute he was told that women don't like a guy in Bugle boys he got rid of them and switched to Levi's. And I thought he was just being a good son. And, my gay cousin told us he didn't set off his gaydar. "He's just a nerdy, shy guy" 

Oh how naive was I?? LOL


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

That he'd never really lived alone as a functional adult before we got married. (In my defense, we married just after college.)
That he drank too much, too often, socially. And that he'd grown up with an alcoholic father and an enabling mother.
That he always seemed to have lots of women friends, that he also wanted me to be friends with.
That his family was exceptionally "old-school" when it came to gender roles and expectations.
That he was an adrenaline junkie who seemed to lack the capacity for "enough". 
That a failure to ever argue - or even disagree - about anything was a sign of conflict-avoidance, rather than us just getting along very well. 
That his inability to manage his own moods and emotions and reliance on me to 'fix' his feelings for him, wasn't something he'd mature away from.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Mine:


double standards as to what was acceptable behavior in just about _EVERYTHING, _from talking to members of the opposite gender, to money
making her problems were my problems, or she was going to find another guy to help her with them
quick to get angry and assume the worst about me, and react as if her assumption was true
spending way beyond her means, and having a sense of entitlement toward a career, money, etc.
a pathological inability to accept responsibility for making a mistake, no matter how minor or insignificant

Eventually, ongoing and constant marital conflict, coupled with some truly bizarre behavior from her drove me to this board to try to figure out WTF i was dealing with.

Several posters suggested she displayed medium-to-strong BPD traits (which I had never heard of) but when reading about BPD and looking at her behavior, I felt like a bomb had gone off in my head.

One of the reasons I ignored the red flags was because I had friends who told
me to. Or that explained away some of her behavior. I can see now they were well-meaning, but naive, and one of them got involved in a similar r/s a few years down the line, and later confided in me he had no idea how domestic abuse could be like that, and mental/emotional abuse was a real thing.


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## Untrusting (Mar 22, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> What's up guys and gals! Title says it all. I'll start off with a few to get things going, can't list them all at once or else this post would be a mile long. Let me also say this, in all seriousness this is not an easy thing to look at without feeling like a complete idiot. It's easy to beat ourselves up and say damn I should have seen this coming. While that might be true, we're also human.
> 
> You've heard the phrases about how you're the sum of the 5 people you hang around with the most or some say show me your friends and I'll show you your future. This one right here would have saved me so much trouble. I fell for the old "yeah her family is effed up but she's the good one". That only works in the movies. Her friends (and family) are almost all overweight, single, multiple kids from from multiple guys, and later on (after marriage) I found out several of them had or were currently cheating on their SOs.
> 
> ...


I didn’t know he’d be mean to me after we fought and punish me emotionally in ways like coming home late or not coming home at all so he can “work.” He does it specifically after we fight, and it feels horrible. I also didn’t know he was talking other women right before he proposed, and that he doesn’t think it was a big deal because we weren’t engaged or married. I wish I had known these thoughts about commitment before we got married, and wish I knew in advance that he copes with hard times in relationships by seeking out other women. We weren’t even fighting when he was talking to those women. So how am I ever to feel secure?


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## think positive (Jun 24, 2011)

Skruddgemire said:


> I'm not sure if saw any of the warning signs before we got married. All my friends did and none of them said anything to me until she wanted to file for the divorce.
> 
> But some of the signs that I saw thinking back after she dropped the bombshell on me were...
> 
> ...


So did she essentially leave you for a woman? What other signs were there.


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## Skruddgemire (Mar 10, 2021)

think positive said:


> So did she essentially leave you for a woman? What other signs were there.


Those were the only signs I was aware of. Others saw things that they did not tell me specifics (just that they "had a feeling"). And yes...she did leave me to follow her friend. I don't know if they were actually shagging, but at the very least she was following her to stay close.


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## think positive (Jun 24, 2011)

Besides the substance abuse red flags I have observed not only in failed marriages but also marriages with close friends who seem to have troubled relationships also. 

I also make the assumption that while finances don't MAKE a marriage better or less prone to divorce, rather the absence of financial stability magnifies problems on marriage and in divorce. 

Marry someone who:

Has demonstrated a lack of entitlement. Spoiled children will grow up to be spoiled spouses. 

Has friends from long ago. While the absence of this is not NESSARILY a red flag it should give you reason for pause. Jerks, narcissists and psychopaths typically have difficulty maintaining long friendships. Like all rules their are exceptions but, loyalty is a great trait in a partner. Someone who is still friends with someone from childhood has likely endured strain in their friendship and loyalty is demonstrated by long relationships. There could be an explanation and/or if they are guys...as many men don't place the same emphasis on friendships. I also think that hanging with your s/o's friends can force honesty. You will see a side you may not like. 

See how they treat their dad if female and mom if Male. Granted the parents could be jerks but, also understand mental illness can run in families even if not hereditary. I don't want to seem insensitive but, if you want a project try refinishing furniture, knitting, painting or some other hobby. Consider adopting a rescue dog if you want a "project" or to engage in charity but, not when picking a life partner. The aforementioned will likely wreck your life less than marrying someone who you think needs help. 

This will sound awful but, try to be careful about your assets if you are a guy And/or if you have less debt/more assets than your partner. My wife was in debt when I met her, I had significantly higher earnings and assets. When things got rough she would threaten divorce. Family court would have prison raped me if I had not made great strides to make it work. I also know a women that had money. Her s/o was a lazy and entitled POS. He made $$ in the divorce, did not get much but if they had kids and if he were a sah dad it may have been different.

I am probably going to get harpooned by some but from what I has seen, people with more allot of premarital partners have a greater risk of cheating. This is gender neutral. I would not want my daughter to marry a FU$% boy any more than I would want my son to marry someone with allot of miles on the vaginal odometer. 

I have mixed feelings as about same sex friends. Not because men and women cant be platonic friends...I have had several as has my wife. Sometimes it is hard for your s/o or you to decipher when these friends may have the propensity to morph into "friends with benefits". This could prove fatal to the marriage. Many-a-great but imperfect marriages have been ruined by temptation. It has been said that a hard Co$% or wet pu$$y has no conscious. 

I dated a girl who "liked guys better" and had many Male friends and few lasting relationships with girls. Turns out she had trouble getting along with women. She also has trouble keeping her parts on. 

I would also discuss expectations about sex, kids, porn, masturbation and other things that could be problematic. My wife knew I occasionally looked at porn and indicated she would not have a problem with it if I did not hide it or if it interfered with her "getting some" when she wanted/needed. 

While I would not marry or not marry a women based upon friends and families thoughts. I think it is important to observe what they say and what they don't say. I felt strongly about 2 marriages in my whole life (Ie that it would not end well) and I was right sadly. Both ended in divorce. We tried to tell both but perhaps we were not persuasive enough.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

TomNebraska said:


> Mine:
> 
> 
> double standards as to what was acceptable behavior in just about _EVERYTHING, _from talking to members of the opposite gender, to money
> ...



Yeah that double standard one is a killer! Mine is bad about the accepting responsibility too, her move is to give a half-azz apology with some fake tears and then it's never supposed to be brought up again. If it is brought up, she says "I apologized for that"


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Coddled and given everything growing up. Huge sense of entitlement. 
Tied when we were dating because her dad bought and gave her an “ugly” car. It was a brown Toyota Corolla in great condition.
She cried. For quite a while. And threw a fit to him.

Lied constantly, parents lied, too. She’d miss school for whatever reason and her mother would lie on phone in front of her saying she was sick. (I saw this with her younger sister and the ex verified that was “normal”. Just an example, but she and her mother were liars. No character.)

Insecurity. She always wanted to be a hottie and get male attention like her younger sister who had a great body, big boobs, etc.
Her sister was also very loose and a known “wild girl” around the area.

All her friends were total whores except one. And her friends didn’t like me. She begged me for 4 years to marry her. But for that same 4 years, bad mouthed me to whoever would listen.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

think positive said:


> Besides the substance abuse red flags I have observed not only in failed marriages but also marriages with close email friends whose wives have seen to contribute to their success and happiness. I also make the assumption that while finances dont MAKE a marriage better or less prone to divorce, rather the absence of financial stability magnifies problems on marriage and in divorce. I make the assumption that you will be parents asnwell as partners:Here is my list:
> 
> Marry someone who:
> 
> ...


Yes I don’t date women that say they “have more guy friends than girls” and “ like guys better”. And damn near every guy friend has had sex with them.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Yes I don’t date women that say they “have more guy friends than girls” and “ like guys better”. And damn near every guy friend has had sex with them.


When I was single I loved women like that because I knew that meant she was DTF and because she had other "friends" she wouldn't be hanging around all the time.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The fact that he was a passive aggressive conflict avoidant coward that would do and say nasty things to feel powerful but would then paint a phony smile on his face and play dumb because he didn't have the backbone to own anything. And he was so phony that anything beyond sports and the weather made him uncomfortable. He was so insecure that he'd talk about exes at ridiculously inappropriate times and in ridiculously inappropriate ways.

He demonstrated early on that placating his ex wife and almost grown, snotty daughter was far more important then how I felt about anything.

But most of all I regret overlooking that he didn't bond with my kids and had very different standards for them then he did for his daughter.

Wow, just typing that makes me want to kick my own ass.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Did anybody else have valid reasons why they ignored red flags?

I look back and see that it was kind of a "perfect storm" for me, in that my XW and I were in the same profession, and lead me to empathize more with her early career struggles. if that hadn't been the case, I might have seen how different our situations were right off the bat.

Over time I realized that in my situation, I had trouble finding work or getting a chance to succeed. However when I eventually got one, I worked very hard at it and made it into something better.

In contrast She took opportunities for granted and wasn't willing to work hard. I saw over time people did give her opportunities and take chances on her, only to back away (and fire her) when they saw she had


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I was very young and didn’t trust my judgment.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

I learned the hard way the importance of having personal boundaries and maintaining them, and the cost of ignoring them with someone.

I also learned not to make excuses for someone, period. Things don't get better once you're married, and people with anxiety/abandonment issues or full blown personality disorders are never satisfied; you can't ever "win" and prove your loyalty and commitment; they'll bleed you dry forcing you to jump through hoops for their affection and contentment.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

TomNebraska said:


> Did anybody else have valid reasons why they ignored red flags?
> 
> I look back and see that it was kind of a "perfect storm" for me, in that my XW and I were in the same profession, and lead me to empathize more with her early career struggles. if that hadn't been the case, I might have seen how different our situations were right off the bat.
> 
> ...


I think for most of us it was a group of factors too. I just plain misread some negatives as positives. For example she was working two jobs when we starting dating and I took that as she was a hard worker. She was only doing it because she had to, she didn't have any goals and wasn't working towards anything. That work ethic disappeared quick once she got the ring on her finger. 

I think to a large extent through ego and/or what we're taught growing up that I ignored things like who her friends were and her family. Like I found the one good apple out of the rotten ones. Probably a lot of projecting things on to her that she just didn't have.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Al_Bundy said:


> I think for most of us it was a group of factors too. I just plain misread some negatives as positives. For example she was working two jobs when we starting dating and I took that as she was a hard worker. She was only doing it because she had to, she didn't have any goals and wasn't working towards anything. That work ethic disappeared quick once she got the ring on her finger.
> 
> I think to a large extent through ego and/or what we're taught growing up that I ignored things like who her friends were and her family. Like I found the one good apple out of the rotten ones. Probably a lot of projecting things on to her that she just didn't have.


Yeah, I think there was some projection on my end as well... like I ignored some of the bad behavior and personal problems because "hey, she went to a good school and came here as an immigrant to make her life better."

No... she got into that good school for political reasons, it's not as impressive as I imagined, and she immigrated here because was running away from her past, and viewed her family and poor upbringing as an embarrassment. She felt she was *entitled* to more, she wasn't looking for an opportunity to *work* for more.

But I projected my own motives to her actions... it wasn't until after a couple years of marriage that I realized she had a very different world view. She came from a place where all men were abusive alcoholics, and women had to do what they had to do to eat... the ends justified the means, and that was that. You didn't worry about what was true and what wasn't; you made your own truth to serve your needs at the moment.


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## think positive (Jun 24, 2011)

TomNebraska said:


> Did anybody else have valid reasons why they ignored red flags?
> 
> I look back and see that it was kind of a "perfect storm" for me, in that my XW and I were in the same profession, and lead me to empathize more with her early career struggles. if that hadn't been the case, I might have seen how different our situations were right off the bat.
> 
> ...


I ignored my guy in favor of my loins. Luckily for me I caught her cheating. 

I will also say trust your elders, even if you do t agree with their conclusions they pay points out things that they notice based upon their own life experience.


Skruddgemire said:


> Those were the only signs I was aware of. Others saw things that they did not tell me specifics (just that they "had a feeling"). And yes...she did leave me to follow her friend. I don't know if they were actually shagging, but at the very least she was following her to stay close.


FWIW I have heard many situations like yours. Hope things have turned around for you.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

For me, it was a combination of codependency and disregarding what my inner voice was saying. I also had no self-esteem, and glommed onto men who weren't good for me. I came from the mindset that somebody was better than nobody, and the chance of me finding the right fit was not viable.

I also wallowed in my victimhood. I had to walk out on two marriages to two alcoholics to realize just how sick I was. 

So, yeah, I saw the red flags. I ignored the red flags. And I suffered the consequences for it. Live and learn. Live and don't learn = repeat the mistake(s).


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## nypsychnurse (Jan 13, 2019)

I once read something like, "The first red flags that you see and ignore are the ones that will end your relationship."
This proved to be true in all my relationships...mostly minor things, but I let them go giving him the "benefit of the doubt"...those things that never changed eventually drove me crazy

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