# Religious Question About Betrayal



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Let me say up front I do not want any debate about the existence of God as that can be another thread at another time. So button it.

My question is two fold...

1) Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual? 

2) After you either found out you had been betrayed or had betrayed, how did it affect your faith, or, did it drive you towards or away from God/religion, if even temporarily? 

I ask as my betraying ex was, literally, a 2 hour+ Bible reader and prayer each and every day I knew her. As devout a woman as I have ever met in my life. 

So just curious.

And again, please do not use this thread as a sounding board for a debate on the existance of God or otherwise. You can all get your digs in elsewhere. Show a little respect for all opinions- regardless of how ignorant they may be (ok, ok, that was for a little levity).


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I don't have direct answers, I grew up in a very orthodox Christian religion. I have seen that the most fanatical people end up doing the most extreme things. I don't know in your wife's case if the 2 hour bible reading was to fend off her own demonds or maybe it was a was a manipulation?

I've seen and lived through this method of control over others. Some manipulators use religion as an exuse to guilt and shame others. It could be that they used religion was a tool rather than a strong belief that they can disconnect that easy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

mablenc said:


> I don't have direct answers, I grew up in a very orthodox Christian religion. I have seen that the most fanatical people end up doing the most extreme things. I don't know in your wife's case if the 2 hour bible reading was to fend off her own demonds or maybe it was a was a manipulation?
> 
> I've seen and lived through this method of control over others. Some manipulators use religion as an exuse to guilt and shame others. It could be that they used religion was a tool rather than a strong belief that they can disconnect that easy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife grew up in poverty and was 1 of 11 children. She dreamed of wealth. I could only provide a middle income life so she ran off with a wealthy man to live dream life. It lasted all of 3 weeks.

BTW, I love your avatar. Grrrrrrrr.........


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Did it end with the OM because she was remorseful?

About my avetar, thank you, it's a symbol of my separation from the oppression I grew up with. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Your betrayal questions aren't my situation, so I can't give you examples you want.

However, I wonder about the 2 hrs a day devoted time with bible. I'm wondering, was she really that close with God and had a personal relationship? Or was she seeking a close relationship? Was she in need of emotional commitment to something? Possible that she wasn't getting the satisfaction she needed, a real tangible emotional feeling & feedback needed at that point in her life. Neither from you nor from her devotion time. So she sought some emotional feedback in other places? Sorry it was with OM.

Just my perspective of what might have driven her away from you or from being faithful.


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## SF-FAN (Sep 24, 2013)

My family is Christian and my WW would pray with us as a family and read the bible with the kids. Is like they compartmentalize or justify their actions somehow so they don't think what they are doing is wrong.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I'd like to add a further question if you don't mind thatpbguy. If you do mind , let me know and I'll delete my post.

I've never asked before as I was worried that my question may be misinterpreted as a dig at religion.

I have noticed several times where a poster has mentioned that he is highly devout, goes to church several times a week, bible studies etc. His whole life seems to revolve around the church.

Then his wife leaves him for/ commits adultery with a non-church goer who indulges in activities other than church.

(And vice-versa where the wife is the highly religious person.)

Do you think that there is such a thing as too much religion being detrimental to a marriage?


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

> 1) Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual?


We were both religious when we met. He was and still is a self-proclaimed Catholic. His mother is Catholic and father is a Baptist. He attended Catholic schools growing up and was baptized under the Catholic faith. He reads the Bible regularly and did so when he was cheating. He still reads it regularly. He prays often and always had.

I grew up very strict Christian. In the Pentacostal church. I've attended private Christian schools and my mom was a Sunday School teacher when I was young enough to attend. Over the years however, I've become less religious over time. I would still consider myself a spiritual person but not a devout anything.




> 2) After you either found out you had been betrayed or had betrayed, how did it affect your faith, or, did it drive you towards or away from God/religion, if even temporarily?


When we were separated, I went to Church regularly with my two boys. I wasn't really looking for God, just a sense of community that Church can bring. I also dated a very strict Christian. It was a rebound relationship for both of us... however, our views on religion were too different even if that hadn't been the case.

My views towards religion/Christianity were not affected by his affair. I don't think his were either. 



> I ask as my betraying ex was, literally, a 2 hour+ Bible reader and prayer each and every day I knew her. As devout a woman as I have ever met in my life.


Similar to my spouse. I think this is the power of compartmentalization at work here. Obviously infidelity is a no-no in the Bible. I think they skim over/ignore those verses.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> Do you think that there is such a thing as too much religion being detrimental to a marriage?


Not directed at me, but I think the answer is yes. We've seen evidence on this on the Religion and Politics forum where one spouse is really strict in their practices and tries to force them on the other who is more moderate. 

I also think in cases where one is highly involved in Church and the other isn't it could be seen as too much independent activity - much like going to play golf or hunting too frequently and the other spouse gets ignored.

Also where the faiths are too different from each other: Christianity and Judaism and fights over which faith to teach the children... whether you'll celebrate Christmas or Hanukkah.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

mablenc said:


> Did it end with the OM because she was remorseful?


It ended in 3 weeks when he tokd her he'd never marry her, he was just looking for a good time. She thought he wanted to marry her.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Chelle D said:


> Your betrayal questions aren't my situation, so I can't give you examples you want.
> 
> However, I wonder about the 2 hrs a day devoted time with bible. I'm wondering, was she really that close with God and had a personal relationship? Or was she seeking a close relationship? Was she in need of emotional commitment to something? Possible that she wasn't getting the satisfaction she needed, a real tangible emotional feeling & feedback needed at that point in her life. Neither from you nor from her devotion time. So she sought some emotional feedback in other places? Sorry it was with OM.
> 
> Just my perspective of what might have driven her away from you or from being faithful.


She was a devout woman. But that ended when his money started talking.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

:


WyshIknew said:


> I'd like to add a further question if you don't mind thatpbguy. If you do mind , let me know and I'll delete my post.
> 
> I've never asked before as I was worried that my question may be misinterpreted as a dig at religion.
> 
> ...


I think it depends on the religion and the person. Some teach that women see pretty much chattel. In those circumstances I think maybe so. But to a largrr extent, it simply shows how fallible we all are regardless of religion.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

I ask as my betraying ex was, literally, a 2 hour+ Bible reader and prayer each and every day I knew her. As devout a woman as I have ever met in my life. 

So just curious.

And again, please do not use this thread as a sounding board for a debate on the existance of God or otherwise. You can all get your digs in elsewhere. Show a little respect for all opinions- regardless of how ignorant they may be (ok, ok, that was for a little levity).[/QUOTE]



> 1) Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual?


My exb/f was the wayward. He agnostic, leaning more towards atheism. I was born Catholic, but I consider myself to be simply Christian. I strongly believe in prayer, as I have seen it work in my life on numerous occasions. 



> 2) After you either found out you had been betrayed or had betrayed, how did it affect your faith, or, did it drive you towards or away from God/religion, if even temporarily?


He confessed his betrayal. My faith in God has INCREASED since that day. In fact, the day he told me, I started to pray that our relationship be restored...

...and stopped praying for that midway through praying! I realized that I really didn't want to be with someone who has no problem betraying for his own weak excuses. 

Reading the Bible doesn't do a damn thing unless you _practice_ what's in there. Practicing requires consistent *deliberate* _effort_. You actually have to constantly be aware of what you're thinking, saying and doing, and if your thinking is 'wrong', you have to take care NOT to engage in it. Too many professed "Christians" don't get that.

Vega


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## raven3321 (Sep 25, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Let me say up front I do not want any debate about the existence of God as that can be another thread at another time. So button it.
> 
> My question is two fold...
> 
> ...


This is a good thread. I'm a christan and so was my first wife when she cheated. What what I learned about her and myself is people are people. We all sin, we all have temptations. The difference is not us but God Himself who decided to forgive our crap and love us anyway.

As to your question, I can remember being curled up in the fetal position screening in pain after the love of my life confessed to a yearlong sexfest. I was very angry at God for allowing it to happen. So I refused to pray or read my bible. Eventually He dealt with me about that and reminded me He had nothing to do with MY choice of a wife. In fact He tried to warn me not to marry her. After the breakup of the marriage when she got into yet a second affair, I lost my moral compass for a while and tried to salve my wounds with a couple of other girls. God told me to come back to cause He loved me but first get rid of the girls. That was tough but I did it. All this was 25 years ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## antechomai (Oct 4, 2013)

Q1. Always connected, both in prayer, and in a community of worship.

Q2. It moved me closer. I needed to remain connected to God, even though I did not understand why He put this upon me to deal with.

Pentecost Sunday is always a trigger day for me. 
When your wife asks you "why are you crying" in a church service because "you know the mess" you have to deal with.

The feeling your wife is MIA and you finally start looking at emails between her and the pastor of your church to see if she has confided (feeling guilty the whole time) with him, only to find it is him. Bad.

There is another thread about violence against OM on the board right now. I just drove over to his house and didn't lay a hand. It was, "we need to talk." I never said anything about the PA.

I think I said this. "We always say that the congregation is the body of Christ on earth and your call is to minister to it. I am a member of that body, and I do not think you can minister to me. If you cannot minster to me as part of the body, how can you minister to anyone."

The next Sunday he publicly resigned in front of the church naming what he did and with who, with higher church officials present to take over. He owned his sin and I do applaud him for that.

Back to Q2:
I never felt abandoned by God, just confused.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

antechomai said:


> Q1. Always connected, both in prayer, and in a community of worship.
> 
> Q2. It moved me closer. I needed to remain connected to God, even though I did not understand why He put this upon me to deal with.
> 
> ...


Amazing story.

Did you and your wife reconcile? 

Was the posom married?

Was your wife there when he confessed and did she know about it?

Know whatever became of him?


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Ex-W became Catholic by attending service, religious education, and receiving sacraments. I'm Catholic and wanted to be married in my faith. I went to Catholic schools from kindergarten to high school. She slept with her Father's gf's son and the paternity of my son was unknown. I got that marriage annulled in the Catholic church once I finalized my divorce.

I have since lost the faith due to the failed marriage and sick children. I guess what I'm saying is that I gave it (religion) a shot, but Hedonistic views of life, people, etc... have overtaken faith as my belief system now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Let me say up front I do not want any debate about the existence of God as that can be another thread at another time. So button it.
> 
> My question is two fold...
> 
> ...


1) My faith has always been a little weak. I have thought I was doing the, "right", things and have found I wasn't, or, I was and it didn't matter. 

2) A lack of the kind of help I needed forced me to go to the Bible for answers and consolation. I found some there. It also made folks think I was extremely devoted, since in the past, I've mentioned or talked about religious beliefs. It was part of my upbringing. I cannot help holding things up to what I was taught in my youth, to compare. It's not the only comparison I make, though.


So, literally, you want to know how someone who is purportedly devoutly religious, can be unfaithful? 

I think there are a few things at issue here.

1. They have been brought up or had help from those who were religious, at a time in their life when they really needed the help. It made a great impression and partially solidified their commitment to their beliefs.

2. They believe that all things are okay to do because all sins are forgiven, once saved. Those sins include past, present, and future actions. It is a consequence of that type of belief. It may or may not be accurate, according to the Bible. 

3. No one is perfect. The thoughts that those who are religious, will not commit sins, is false thinking. It is a belief that because someone is religious, they are better. That's not true. They are different. These religious folks still sin. Some sins will be more heinous than others. 

4. Religion does not stop us from sinning. It merely gives us guidelines for what things are considered sin. Support from others in the church, and devotion to our beliefs, are what help us to sin less, but not stop sinning. 

5. Being saved is more about having the opportunity to go to heaven, than a free pass, no matter what we do to others. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. Love your neighbor as yourself. These are what all other commands are based upon. You cannot meet any other commands, if these two are not met first. 

6. Finally, we are all human. We all sin. That is why Christ came and offered himself as a sacrifice for us. We cannot meet God's standards. We would all be lost, if Jesus did not sacrifice himself. 

I don't mean to offend anyone who is not Christian, with those statements. These are my best guesses. Take them with a grain of salt.


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## allwillbewell (Dec 13, 2012)

I was raised and practice Catholicism, FWH who was baptized Methodist,of course, took Cana classes as prerequisite to marriage and kept promises to raise kids Catholic; he really was ambivalent about religion but went to church with us when job allowed. About the time of his first affair, he abandoned going thru the motions, leaving me to instill religious values in the kids alone...doesn't work when children prefered the role he modeled.

During and after 2nd affair was discovered years later and we are in reconciliation, he is still not interested...personally, I think the guilt he feels, especially during the few times a year he will go to church is too much for him...

BTW, he actually used the time I went to church, volunteered at church, mission trips, etc to see his AP along with other times of course.

As for me, I always enjoyed community, volunteerism, etc. and gained a lot from it...at times, I may have been overly pious and self-righteous but never did I force or nag him to join us...altho I expressed disappointment and hope that he would return but resigned myself to letting the Spirit move him as It would. 

I was and am still very open to the jewels of truth other religions can offer, especially Buddhism. About the time of FWH's second 6-year affair, the loneliness and hurt I felt from his neglect and obvious disrespect inspired me to try to practice what I understood the Buddhist tenant of dispassionate attitude to be. I endeavored to distance my self from the pain, and its source: my husband and ended up hardening my heart and ignoring the red flags he was waving. 

I'm sure those years of intense unhappiness while he was deep in his affair and I was clueless were affected quite a bit by my Christian value system of the spiritual commitment I thought we both made. Its still a big part of my need to reconcile. 

I went thru and still struggle somewhat with a numbness toward God, I admit I have real doubts as to the interaction of God in my personal life, I have felt little direct comfort from praying; I believe its up to me to save and heal myself: He's not going to perform a miracle and take the pain away!

Thanks to the anonymity of TAM, I will relate a very coincidental side story to all this. About a year before I discovered H's 2nd affair, I had the opportunity to pray at the shrine of a Spanish saint who was renowned for saving marriages while alive...a medieval marriage counselor if you will. After his death and sainthood, he became known to intercede for women whose husbands no longer were sexually attracted to their wives. Well, being Catholic and getting all that ritual, I made a heartfelt prayer that he would intercede on my behalf and return my husbands desire for me. At the time, the only explanation I could come up with for my husbands 4 year moratorium on sex was that he found me physically repugnant...while not overweight, I had gained 10 lbs and was going thru menopause. Well, my prayer was answered but not the way I expected. The discovery of my husband's betrayal was the catalyst to set our world upsidedown, bring huge pain to 4 people, transformed me and revealed who my husband really was. It also returned my husband's love to me both sexually and spiritually. So who knows? Just be aware that God may not answer your prayers the way you expect!


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> My question is two fold...
> 
> 1) Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual?


Both my husband and I had a very strong faith, believed in God and the Bible, studied the Bible to try to gain more understanding, and lived our lives as best as we understood, to please God and bless others. My H's EA was with the daughter of his Pastor (he was living somewhere else, due to his work.) He didn't know at the time that he was her 2nd "victim." (Might I add that now that he knows he wasn't really that "special" he was just a stupid willing target, he feels pretty foolish.) When he was in the midst of the fog, he actually tried to use Bible verses, twisting them to justify his desire to D me and M OW! On Dday I began a water fast, asking God to take the veil off his eyes, change his heart, and bring him back to his children and I. I told God I would stop the fast when my prayer was answered, or if God told me to stop the fast for any reason. My husband had no idea I was fasting, as he went back to live where his job (and OW) was. Our children didn't know I was fasting since I kept cooking all their meals. They didn't notice that I wasn't sitting down to eat with them, as they were 13 and under at the time, and pretty focused on themselves still.

I believe a miracle happened. I had a history of hypoglycemia, but I knew that God could overcome anything. I fasted for 13 days on water, and I felt pretty good, compared to how I should have felt, and stopped fasting only when my H told me he was coming back to our family. I kind of wanted to keep going on the fast, since I lost 20 lbs., but I made myself start eating again, since it was an agreement I made with God, which had been answered by Him, and it was not a diet. I've tried to fast since then to lose the last few pounds to reach my high school weight of 115 lbs, but I can't seem to have the desperate determination to keep my part of the bargain (not to eat) that I did during the fast for God's intervention in my family's lives. 



thatbpguy said:


> 2) After you either found out you had been betrayed or had betrayed, how did it affect your faith, or, did it drive you towards or away from God/religion, if even temporarily?


I immediately turned to my faith to get through it. God literally carried me through those 13 days. People in our church helped out by visiting, praying and helping out financially. They showed such love for our family. Women who had cheated or been cheated on, shared their experiences with me and encouraged me not to give up praying. They were amazing.

My faith in God and His love and power never wavered. But I have felt like Job sometimes, wondering why God allowed my family's life to be bazooka-ed. I figure it must have been a test, to prove to the enemy of our souls, and to myself and anyone else who knows our family that my faith is real, and not dependent on having a nice, easy life. I believe it might have also been to show me and my husband that he is not teflon, and that he can succumb to his own selfishness and blindness. He later had to face the same thing over porn, but he believes he has overcome that addiction. The longer he is away from it, the easier it is to stay away. He has the same attitude about women: if he keeps up good boundaries and doesn't let himself or women get personal, he is less likely to throw all care to the wind for a pretty face and a flattering tongue.

One thing did change drastically. I have left the denomination where the A, and other bad things that resulted directly from the A occurred. I decided that if people can get so distracted with details (of that denomination only) and following rules that they lose common sense about right and wrong, then that denomination is not of God and is on the WRONG track. My husband still believes in that denomination, and says that it is not the denomination's fault, but his own flesh, vanity and selfishness that allowed him to become blind and commit adultery. He doesn't attend that denomination, but goes to church where I feel comfortable.

When I see people who belong to that denomination (it is world-wide) I steer clear of them, as I don't want to hear the Bible as filtered through their legalism and blindness.

Another big change is that since leaving that denomination and all their rules, I am feeling free and happier again. I realize that as the years went by in that denomination, my world was getting smaller, my choices fewer, and my joy less and less. I also see our children blossoming, and their faith maturing and strengthening!! Maybe God allowed the A so I would be motivated to set my foot down and leave that denomination and get back to a "pure" religion, based on the love and forgiveness of God through Christ, and not on the Old Covenant laws.


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## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

During my husband's affair I know that he questioned his Christianity several times. I remember him saying things that were not ordinary for him questioning his beliefs on religion and marriage both. I think it was a way for him to overcome some guilty feelings. The interesting thing is that now that we are working on R we are both drawn back to church. We are looking for ways to grow in all aspects of our lives including spiritually. I think he was so damaged at the time of his affair- his life was a mess and out of control. In attempting to regain control and make things right in his life making things right spiritually is also a huge part of that plan.


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## Nostromo (Feb 8, 2014)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Maybe God allowed the A so I would be motivated to set my foot down and leave that denomination and get back to a "pure" religion, based on the love and forgiveness of God through Christ, and not on the Old Covenant laws.


I don't mean to be too "nosy" but could you possibly expound upon what you mean with switching to a "pure" religion and not one based on Old Covenant laws. I'm curious if you mean you no longer believe in the validity of the old testament as being GOD's written word, if you mean that it is of GOD but that you cannot obey the OT law and are living by grace or something else entirely. If this is too off subject please just ignore.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> :
> 
> I think it depends on the religion and the person. Some teach that women see pretty much chattel. In those circumstances I think maybe so. But to a largrr extent, it simply shows how fallible we all are regardless of religion.


Yes, I remember reading about a study done to investigate if there was any correlation with infidelity and divorce and whether you are deeply religious, ordinarily religious or atheist/agnostic. Rather surprisingly to some there was almost no difference between the various 'leanings'. What mattered was whether you were a fallible human being.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Being betrayed didn't affect my faith either way. It was his choice, I did nothing wrong.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> 1)	Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual?


During the first few months of the betrayal I was not concentrating or seriously interested in my spiritual beliefs; the teachings of Christ. As the betrayal got worse I became hungry for God’s word. I started remembering the faith of my youth when I was taught the Bible every Sunday until I was a teenager. I started rebuilding my faith






> 2)	After you either found out you had been betrayed or had betrayed, how did it affect your faith, or, did it drive you towards or away from God/religion, if even temporarily?



It drove me towards God’s spirit and goodness. My faith grew more in that year than any year before. I wanted God to fix the broken intimacy that my wife had caused but then became acutely aware that I had broken intimacy with God. *God used my great pain to help me spiritually and I am very thankful as now I am much more secure.*


I was broken, humbled, and scared and ran to God like a child. I was drawn to God then wanted to obey and learn of Him. *God proved that He is always faithful to His word and He showed me His mercy and grace*. Although I could do better and sometimes slip back to not giving God the credit that He deserves, I have never forgotten the REAL spiritual experience that I had in one of my darkest days. God has blessed me for over 25 years and the betrayal that occurred over 25 years ago can not stop my joy or gratefulness. *He owes me nothing I owe Him everything!*


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Nostromo said:


> I don't mean to be too "nosy" but could you possibly expound upon what you mean with switching to a "pure" religion and not one based on Old Covenant laws. I'm curious if you mean you no longer believe in the validity of the old testament as being GOD's written word, if you mean that it is of GOD but that you cannot obey the OT law and are living by grace or something else entirely. If this is too off subject please just ignore.


I hesitate to answer, but I will trust that your inquiry is sincere, and not a set-up for an attack. I am not a theologian, I am just one woman, trying to live in this world I did not chose to be born in, in such a way that glorifies and serves the God who created me. I believe the Bible is God's manual, given to the minds of specific people, to write down for the benefit of all mankind, for those who may believe in the God the writings are referring to. It may have errors here and there in the recopying and translating, but those do not change the overall messages God wanted to convey.

I do believe that the Old Covenant is important, and helps us understand a lot about God, His nature, His grace, and even about Messiah, "Jesus." It should not be thrown out or dismissed. There is much wisdom and historical context there to teach us the history of God's relationship with mankind. It points to His coming, and in several places describes exactly what Jesus went through in his life all the way to his last day.

However, because people couldn't/wouldn't keep the laws He established and commanded them to keep, which purpose was to separate a people for Himself, he chose to become/replace the sacrificial lamb that His people, the Hebrews/Jews had been commanded to slay during specific feasts and ceremonies as a propitiation for their sins. With God's/Jesus' death, the laws of the Old Covenant were fulfilled and no longer the "standard" for being identified by God as belonging to Him.

The standard became whether each individual, whether Jew or Gentile, was willing to accept the gift of God, by allowing Himself to become the slain lamb. If you know Jewish Law, you will understand the deep significance of the temple law of blood atonement for sin through the slaying of unblemished animals. The symbolism of what God did, in the body of Jesus, is all over the books of the Tenach (Old Testament.) Jesus'/God's death on the stake made a way for all mankind, not only the Jews, to be God's people.

There are plenty of people from various denominations who focus on specific Bible verses, and make them a litmus test for judging their own or other people's faith/salvation. In my experience, as people do this, their focus becomes how well they keep rules. Sometimes the rules are directly from the Torah (1st 5 Books of Moses) or they are rooted in the teachings of Rabbis, or in the teachings of the founders of their particular Christian denomination....and the rules are rooted in that leader's interpretation of some Bible verse. Followers of denominations with rules become more and more focused on rules, prideful, judgmental, and eventually can become blind to their own sin.

By pure, I'm saying that people should read the Bible for themselves, not only rely on someone else to tell them what it says. Yes, we can listen to teachers, but we must always be testing what they say, by reading the Bible ourselves, as the Bereans did whenever Paul preached to them. They listened to Paul, then they went home and studied the Tanach (Old Testament) to see if what he was saying lined up with it. Mankind now has the benefit of not only having the Old Testament, but we also have the writings of the Apostles and the letters of Paul to various churches (the New Testament.)

As we study the Bible, we might get a wrong idea, or interpretation. Many times it is no big deal, because we aren't judged by God on how well we keep rules, because Jesus died in our place since God knew we wouldn't be able to keep the rules. We all live and die, and will face God someday. We can't say, "But I was just following the teachings of Rabbi_____, or Pastor_____." We will be held accountable for ourselves, and won't be able to blame anyone else. God knows the heart,he knows the mind. We WILL fail, but God is faithful.

Regarding whether one is free to live by the Old Covenant laws, there is no where I see in the Bible (New Testament) that _forbids_ anyone from following the Old Covenant laws. The two greatest commandments spoken of by Jesus when they asked him what the most important commandment was are: 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. Each of the 10 commandments lines up with either #1 or #2. I'm inclined to believe that if a law can't be associated with #1 or #2 then it was fulfilled by Jesus, and we don't have to worry about it anymore.

Regarding OT laws, it appears it is now unnecessary to make sacrifices for sin, because Jesus was the sacrifice for all the sin of mankind. Stoning an adulterer is not necessary anymore, because those stoning the adulterer would be breaking law #2. The adulterer is already condemning his/herself because he/she is not loving their spouse/neighbor. If they don't truly repent and _turn away_ from their sin (teshuva in Hebrew) they will die with that sin on them. The people who would stone an adulterer are breaking #2 because they would not be loving their neighbor as themself.

So with my new understanding, I feel relieved that I just need to rely on Jesus, love God, love my neighbor, repent when I have failed in either, and Jesus will/has done the rest. Pretty simple.

There are many things that I don't understand, but I'm OK with that. I am not God, nor do I have the mind of God.

"For my ways are not your ways,
Nor are my thoughts your thoughts, says the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my thoughts higher than your thoughts,
And my ways higher than your ways."


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> ...I feel relieved that I just need to rely on Jesus, love God, love my neighbor, repent when I have failed in either, and Jesus will/has done the rest. Pretty simple.
> 
> There are many things that I don't understand, but I'm OK with that. I am not God, nor do I have the mind of God.
> 
> ...


Yep, I agree with this. Actually, the only point I didn't totally agree with, was where you stated, I think by mistake, that the New Testament was Paul's writings. His writings are part of it. I tend to rely more on the Gospels, since they use more of Jesus' words than any others. 

I believe Paul was trying to convey things to the Gentiles, of which I am one, the ideas of the Old Testament and relate them to what Jesus said and did. Some of what Paul writes, I find tough to come to grips with. 

My personal opinion of the 10 commandments, which I specifically left out of my previous post because I know Christ said the two most important were the ones you and I listed, is that they seem to clarify what is meant by the two Christ gave us. 

I don't think we should be sacrificing animals or making grain offerings. I do believe you are correct when you say we must repent of our sins and do them no more. Where we fail in that, is where the sacrifice of Christ takes over for us.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> * (1) Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual?*


* My rich, skanky XW was the betrayer. She too, had presented herself as being quite religious, gregarious, outgoing, and quite easily gave in the high 5 figures to the Church annually! Let's just say that I felt as if we both had faith in God and were well grounded and committed to each other!*



> *(2) After you either found out you had been betrayed or had betrayed, how did it affect your faith, or, did it drive you towards or away from God/religion, if even temporarily?*




*Since separation had occurred long before any subsequent discovery of her betrayal with two different men, all occurring while we were still occupying the same bed, and with me totally oblivious to her extracurricular activities, I felt that I had nothing to fear!

Once I discovered the truth, I was crushed beyond measure! Knowing that she had slept with all three of us simultaneously for a few months stung and, at times, makes me feel just so totally dirty. But let's just say that the deceitful, underhanded way in which she perpetrated her two affairs, as well as the guise of requesting the "trial separation" from me hurt far, far more! And still does, to this very day!

But if anything, my faith in God, as well as most of my cherished friends has become far, far, stronger; while because of my XW's sordid escapades, as well as the actions and inactions of the other once "trusted people" who were summarily involved, both directly and indirectly, within the process of my D, ~ well, let's just say that my faith in that particular element of society has become somewhat compromised at best!*
.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Yep, I agree with this. Actually, the only point I didn't totally agree with, was where you stated, I think by mistake, that the New Testament was Paul's writings. His writings are part of it. I tend to rely more on the Gospels, since they use more of Jesus' words than any others.
> 
> I believe Paul was trying to convey things to the Gentiles, of which I am one, the ideas of the Old Testament and relate them to what Jesus said and did. Some of what Paul writes, I find tough to come to grips with.
> 
> ...


I didn't go back and read what I wrote up there, but I meant that _most_ of the NT was written by Paul. I haven't counted the number of letters and pages so I could be wrong there too. Meh... I'm no Bible scholar, and am not pretending to be....I just love God, and have studied His word since I became a follower of the Savior. I have to admit that I study the Bible considerably less since my H's EA, but I'm no longer worried about knowing it all, to make sure I do it right.

But I do believe that I learned somewhere that someone (very likely Paul) wrote the book of Hebrews to Hebrew Christians in Rome. He used the Tenach extensively to help them understand what Jesus did on the cross, and to show them how the entire Tenach pointed to God's plan, His faithfulness, and Jesus's faithfulness in fulfilling the prophecies. Understanding the Old Testament and Hebrew Law helps one understand what Paul was saying in that letter.


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## NeverMore (Feb 24, 2013)

XWWH was a cradle-catholic. I converted a year after marriage. HE cheated a bunch. Is now a fallen-away Catholic. I'm still practicing. I divorced him. I still believe in God and never once blamed Him or the religion. My X is to blame for it ALL.


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## antechomai (Oct 4, 2013)

1) Did you and your wife reconcile? 
2) Was the posom married?
3) Was your wife there when he confessed and did she know about it?
4) Know whatever became of him?

Answers:
1) No. We put our premarital assets in our individual piles, and everything else was split. I got 50% custody of my three daughters(10,12,14). 
For a while I was a SAHD. I moved out of the house without a job, but with the help of 8 men from the church into an apartment. I landed the apartment without employment. When I went to the home of the owner she new me but I didn't know her. Apparently I ran the music for her children's vacation bible school one year. I got picked up by the Karma bus. 

One month later I had a new career, 3 and months later, a home. 

2) Yes and they worked it out.

3) No. She was told what was going to happen and we stayed away.

4) He found a new job outside the church for a couple years. After many hours of focused work, he was allowed to return as a pastor in a different church. I know where he serves.

He messed up big time, but he owned it.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

My ex was raised Catholic, and started getting more and more churchy towards the end of our relationship, which also coincided with her increasingly wandering eye. She even cited my consistent lack of faith as one of the reasons we were "growing apart", before I finally managed to find evidence of the real cause.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

OnTheRocks said:


> My ex was raised Catholic, and started getting more and more churchy towards the end of our relationship, which also coincided with her increasingly wandering eye. *She even cited my consistent lack of faith* as one of the reasons we were "growing apart", before I finally managed to find evidence of the real cause.


*My rich, skanky XW tried using that once or twice on me! Been there ~ Done that!

I guess that I undoubtedly must have missed Church on the Sunday that they discussed "Deception!" Obviously, she made it!*


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *My rich, skanky XW tried using that once or twice on me! Been there ~ Done that!
> 
> I guess that I undoubtedly must have missed Church on the Sunday that they discussed "Deception!" Obviously, she made it!*


And she must have missed this quote by Jesus: "If you so much as _look_ at someone with lust, you have committed adultery in your heart"


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

I think one problem a lot of Christians have is they think they can pick and choose their sins.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

My ex was religious. She did keep telling me Jesus forgave, a good christian would forgive. Guess what, my patron saint is 'St. Vengeance'.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

WhiteRaven said:


> My ex was religious. She did keep telling me Jesus forgave, a good christian would forgive. Guess what, my patron saint is 'St. Vengeance'.


It’s one thing to forgive, and another to _forgive_. True Biblical forgiveness is good to attain to, but nearly impossible to do. 

Also, forgiveness or not, everybody has to bear the repercussions of what they do. And sometimes that means losing your marriage.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

antechomai said:


> 1) Did you and your wife reconcile?
> 2) Was the posom married?
> 3) Was your wife there when he confessed and did she know about it?
> 4) Know whatever became of him?
> ...


I am quite shocked he was ever, or even personally considered a return to the ministry. To me, that's wrong.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> It’s one thing to forgive, and another to _forgive_. True Biblical forgiveness is good to attain to, but nearly impossible to do.
> 
> Also, forgiveness or not, everybody has to bear the repercussions of what they do. And sometimes that means losing your marriage.


Everything has consequences.

I loved her. I suffered betrayal.

She betrayed me. She suffered D.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

We all have our own fleshly weaknesses. which can eventually cause harm to ourselves or others. The main destructive temptations fall under three categories:

1. The lust of the flesh (illicit sex, porn, overeating, over drinking, excessive materialism/spending/hoarding, drug use, etc.)

2. The lust of the eyes (porn, voyeurism, materialism, coveting, envy, etc) 

3. The pride of life. (vanity, excessive materialism, power hunger, excessive pride, condemnation, etc.)

I never realized before now that verse is a very concise list referring to how we get tripped up.

Mr. IMFAR helped me with this list!! He says that he struggles with things in all three lists. Myself as well.

Just because a person has a faith in a god doesn't mean that they won't have areas of weakness/temptation. Ideally because of their faith and humility, with the help of the Almighty, they recognize the doors, that if entered, lure them to their sin of choice, and they regularly make conscious decisions to walk past those doors.

thatbguy, does your wife now accept that she has a weakness with desiring wealth to the point it blinds her in the area of fidelity and sexual purity? Now that she knows, she can guard herself....but it is a little too late because the collateral damage has been done: she nuked you and your marriage. I'm sorry you also went through it.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> I am quite shocked he was ever, or even personally considered a return to the ministry. To me, that's wrong.


The subject of "leaders" going back to leading after committing an egregious sin upsets me! The COW in my live went back to her "ministry" too. Her father/pastor, yelled at me over the phone when I asked him if she was already back in her position of authority, and he said, "She has repented and been forgiven."

That jerk should never lead anyone ever again! According to the Bible these liars supposedly believe in, they should be humble and follow/learn from others and never lead again.

I can't believe the stupid churches who allow adulterers, thieves, swindlers, etc. to later take positions of leadership!!!

There is a difference between forgiveness and just plain stupidity. There is also a difference between repentance and power grabbing.

VENT OVER!!


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I do believe you are correct when you say we must repent of our sins and do them no more. Where we fail in that, is where the sacrifice of Christ takes over for us.


This is the rationale that I believe most so-called "Christian" cheaters use to justify the affair to themselves.

*That God forgives us for all our sins. They use that as their ticket out of jail card.* They can cheat all they want, but Jesus forgives them. In fact, I believe it makes cheating easier for them, thinking God forgives them anyway.

They never once consider that in order to be forgiven, they must repent of their sin and sin no more. In other words, ask forgiveness from God and their spouse and stop cheating.

So my conclusion is this: It's their twisted view of Christianity that makes it easier to cheat and justify it to themselves. It's just like the terrorists twisted view of Islam that justifies in their eyes, the killing of innocent people.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> This is the rationale that I believe most so-called "Christian" cheaters use to justify the affair to themselves.
> 
> *That God forgives us for all our sins. They use that as their ticket out of jail card.* They can cheat all they want, but Jesus forgives them. In fact, I believe it makes cheating easier for them, thinking God forgives them anyway.
> 
> They never once consider that in order to be forgiven, they must repent of their sin and sin no more. In other words, ask forgiveness from God and their spouse and stop cheating.


I think people need to separate hypocrites from Christians who chose the sin of adultery but realized the deception they were in and stopped it.

Serial cheating "Christians" are not reading or understanding their Bibles. They are not really Christians either. Paul addresses this, and says that those continuing in sin, because they think that God's grace and forgiveness covers it, are condemning themselves.

We don't have to worry about the hypocrites. We really need to just worry about ourselves. Am I a hypocrite? Am I truly repentant? Why am I continuing in this sin?


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## Dread Pirate Roberts (May 22, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Let me say up front I do not want any debate about the existence of God as that can be another thread at another time. So button it.
> 
> My question is two fold...
> 
> ...


Q1. I was raised in an evangelical, Pentecostal family - bible as literal truth, speaking in tongues, etc. - but I've been an atheist for about as long as I can remember. So, no, and I was the betrayed.

Q2. It had zero effect on my lack of belief. I'm interested in the history of religion, but that's as far as it goes.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Vega said:


> ...
> Reading the Bible doesn't do a damn thing unless you _practice_ what's in there. Practicing requires consistent *deliberate* _effort_. You actually have to constantly be aware of what you're thinking, saying and doing, and if your thinking is 'wrong', you have to take care NOT to engage in it. Too many professed "Christians" don't get that.
> 
> Vega


Religiosity is like OCD for religion. Going through an obsessive level of rituals does not make a person a devout believer.

All it does for that type of person is fill the void, no sense of morality involved.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

My ex and I are catholic, she changed from baptist to catholic for marriage, went through confession, communion, and we both took lots of instruction from the priest AND the Deacon

They both told us in no uncertain words that should infidelity ever occur, to NOT confess, to not unleash that burden onto the other, to never do it again and take it to the grave

um...really...catholics and their confessions, steal a candy bar and you MUST confess and do penance... but blowing your boss doesnt need to be confessed?? rug sweep it??

I dont know about other denominations, but catholics are about numbers, increasing their numbers, NOT decreasing...divorce decreases the numbers, divorce prevents any more child bearing of future catholics...meh...I have faith and beliefs, and the church has NOTHING to do with it, the church is a business...pure and simple...and a political force...god comes in third


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## Emptyshelldad (Apr 29, 2013)

My ww taught the Sunday school and attended church every Sunday. She would go to both services so she could hear the sermon first service then be with the children for second service. So I'm thinking now, "what was she thinking while we sat holding hands in church during the time of the affair which was ten months.....was she feeling guilty hearing our. Burch leaders talk of betrayal and giving a whole section on what it means to be a good wife and husband." I think I'll text her and ask her that now. I'll let you guys know what she says when she replies. 

My own faith was strong, but after the discovery, I fell away from The Lord. I'm just still too hurt to re open that part of my life. That part of me died, and I don't know if the parts that remain are deep enough for a religious connection to The Lord.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> My question is two fold...
> 
> 1) Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual?
> 
> ...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> This is the rationale that I believe most so-called "Christian" cheaters use to justify the affair to themselves.
> 
> *That God forgives us for all our sins. They use that as their ticket out of jail card.* They can cheat all they want, but Jesus forgives them. In fact, I believe it makes cheating easier for them, thinking God forgives them anyway.
> 
> ...


Yeah. That was the point I was trying to make in my first post. Some, mistakenly believe they can do whatever they want and all is forgiven.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

missthelove2013 said:


> My ex and I are catholic, she changed from baptist to catholic for marriage, went through confession, communion, and we both took lots of instruction from the priest AND the Deacon
> 
> *They both told us in no uncertain words that should infidelity ever occur, to NOT confess, to not unleash that burden onto the other, to never do it again and take it to the grave*
> 
> ...


How on earth can they take something like that to the grave?

Ok, they have their affair(s), fall back in love/become faithful again.
How can they even look their spouse in the eye when their spouse tells them they love them?

Surely it must twist something inside them when their spouse surprises them with a loving gift?

Every time they hear of an acquaintances marriage breaking up through infidelity and their spouse says "thank goodness we don't have to worry about that, love"

Every time they watch a film with adultery at the heart of it they must squirm, and die inside a little more.

The fear that you are going to be found out, the sorrow for betraying the spouse that you now love enough to remain faithful to, it must all eat away at them.

I think this is why we see a number of threads here where the infidelity is confessed years later.

How on earth can they advise them to take it to the grave?


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

missthelove2013 said:


> My ex and I are catholic, she changed from baptist to catholic for marriage, went through confession, communion, and we both took lots of instruction from the priest AND the Deacon
> 
> They both told us in no uncertain words that should infidelity ever occur, to NOT confess, to not unleash that burden onto the other, to never do it again and take it to the grave
> 
> ...


I am a lapsed Catholic, not really a believer anymore. But I have to say I seriously doubt this was mainstream advice you were getting.

For one, you as a Catholic are required to confess your sins to a priest in Confession.

As for not alerting your spouse to your failing in marriage? That is a different thing.

Is that what you meant?

Again, even priests recommend marriage counseling.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> So my conclusion is this: It's their twisted view of Christianity that makes it easier to cheat and justify it to themselves. It's just like the terrorists twisted view of Islam that justifies in their eyes, the killing of innocent people.


This is not a thread jack, but to clarify an untruth you just stated which has been perpetuated by the political correctness crowd.

The truth is that Islamic terrorists are not twisting anything. They are obeying the Qu'ran:



Qur’an Surah 8, verse 59- 60 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare for them whatever force and cavalry ye are able of gathering, to strike terror, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies, of Allah and your enemies.”

Qur’an Surah 4, verse 56 “Those who have disbelieved our signs, you shall roast them in fire. Whenever their skins are cooked to a turn, we shall substitute new skins for them that they may feel the punishment; verily Allah is sublime and wise.”

Qu’ran Surah 8, verse 39 “Fight them until there is no dissention and the religion is entirely Allah’s.

Qur’an Surah 9 verse 5 “Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) . . . "

Slay the infidels wherever you find them. Slay the pagans wherever you find them. Qu’ran Sura 2:191, 4:89, 9:5

"Make war on them until idolatry does not exist any longer and Allah's religion reigns universally." (Q.8:39, also 2:193)

"We break with you; hatred and enmity will reign between us until ye believe in Allah alone." (Q. 60.4)

"The Jews and Christians and the Pagans will burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." (Q.98:51)


etc., etc., etc. PM me if you want more quotes. I have pages and pages of them.


Now don't get started saying that murderous Christians are just doing what the Bible says. There aren't entire armies of Christians murdering people, "because the Bible says so." Christians who murder in the name of the Bible are nut jobs, because Jesus did not teach murder or vengance. He taught repentance, and forgiveness.


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## sirdano (Dec 30, 2011)

I was not so much into religon as my wife was and she was the one who cheated.

As for me it drove me to God. Why? Becuase I could have shot myself; drank myself to death or used drugs or any other way to get rid of the pain. Then I talked to people at my wife's church they helped me though God see a different way. I gave God all my pain and ask him for help. What some don't realize that He choose when those prayers will be asked and they will be.

She through the sisters at church talked her out of the sin and fog. If she was not to repent then a lot of her friends would have dropped her like a rock. 

Now as per the Bible David sin a lot too and was forgiven by God the big differance was he repented. 

My DD was 2011 March and since then through MC we have been stronger even since.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

The frailty of human beings. 
They can convince themselves of anything when it suits them. 
Look at the Catholic Church and child abuse. 
Or all those preachers sermonising about morality who have been at the same time having affairs themselves or using prostitutes. 
Sometimes it seems to me that non-religious people have got more moral fibre. Perhaps because religious people can pray for forgiveness?
If I was religious (I'm agnostic though raised a Christian) I think I'd find it hard to be on my knees praying one minute and then sneaking off with an OM the next. Just wouldn't make sense given how ALL religions view adultery.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

mablenc said:


> About my avetar, thank you, it's a symbol of my separation from the oppression I grew up with.


Funny that she worked for Billy Graham for years. That's what I call bi-polar.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

********** said:


> The frailty of human beings.
> They can convince themselves of anything when it suits them.
> Look at the Catholic Church and child abuse.
> Or all those preachers sermonising about morality who have been at the same time having affairs themselves or using prostitutes.
> ...


Exactly the reason for the belief that Christ died for all, if we accept Him. Religion knows we all fail. It gives us the opportunity to renew ourselves by grace, through faith. ETA: Feel like I needed to put the name, "Christ", there, instead of the words, "Religion", and, "It".

The issue is when those who believe think they are less accountable than others. Pride goeth before a fall, so to speak.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> And she must have missed this quote by Jesus: "If you so much as _look_ at someone with lust, you have committed adultery in your heart"


Ummm.... Let's try that again:

"But I say unto you, That whosoever *looketh on a woman* to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It's abundantly clear in the book of Hebrews 13:4-5(NIV) what betrayal and infidelity is all about:

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all of the sexually immoral. Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,

'Never will I leave you,
Never will I forsake you.'"*


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> My question is two fold...
> 
> 1) Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual?
> 
> 2) After you either found out you had been betrayed or had betrayed, how did it affect your faith, or, did it drive you towards or away from God/religion, if even temporarily?


1) ExWW was the betrayer. During that years previous to her cheating I was about a 7 on a scale to 10 for being religious. A year or two prior and during the affair, I was probably a 5. Post affair I am a 2.

2) The betrayal affected me because of the rationale used to "forgive." The normal course of action would be excommunication/shame/discipline. That wasn't applied. She "forgave" herself on face value saying that she was "clean now." The local church leader directly involved was happy and told me she was "forgiven." Talk is cheap. What was the point? Repentance is a lifetime effort. Repentance includes restitution where possible. Restitution doesn't occur in adultery. Divorce is an option, but is not a punishment. It was a step toward my forgiveness toward her actions. I still am working on "forgiveness". It is easier now that I have a new wife, a new family, and a better life.

The outcome was me feeling cynical about religion. Why bother? God loves us all, right? He forgives whom He will. If He knows me, He understands.

Why follow an institution based on guilt, shame, cheap forgiveness, and ever-changing policy/doctrine based on popular culture? Church leaders, in general, love money, power, and submission, IMHO.

I prefer to follow what I perceive as God. Many truths are self-evident. God gave me a brain to make wise choices. Life is a time to learn and be tested. My course of action should speak for me, not one based in fear or guilt as pronounced from a pulpit.

Church is often a place to socialize, and it often fills your heart with guilt, placates your fears, or emboldens your disdain/pity for non-believers.

I admire many true believers of several faiths. I love many family and friends for their efforts to do as they are instructed. I also know God must love those who can follow core values without the false pretenses of religious organizations.

By their works ye shall know them.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *BY Emptyshelldad*
> My own faith was strong, but after the discovery, I fell away from The Lord. I'm just still too hurt to re open that part of my life. That part of me died, and I don't know if the parts that remain are deep enough for a religious connection to The Lord.
> 
> 
> ...




*Judging Christ by what some people and churches do seems to me to be a lame excuse for your own personal evaluation of Christ.* The Bible makes it clear that you are not to judge Christ by what other people and religions do. It would be a disaster if the other 11 apostles and others would judge Christ by what the apostle Judas Iscariot, the betrayer did to Jesus.


John 14:6
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


*No need to go through people or churches to get to God or to judge God*


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Ummm.... Let's try that again:
> 
> "But I say unto you, That whosoever *looketh on a woman* to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."


Meh. Same thing.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Meh. Same thing.


Is it?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

WhiteRaven said:


> My ex was religious. She did keep telling me Jesus forgave, a good christian would forgive. Guess what, my patron saint is 'St. Vengeance'.


Divorce and forgiveness are not mutually exclusive. 

You could have also handed this one back to her... "But Sweetie, Jesus said I could divorce you! Seriously, look it up... It's in the Bible!"


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> My question is two fold...
> 
> 1) Be it you or your spouse/SO as the betrayer, during the time of the betrayal did you have faith in God and/or consider yourself either religious or spiritual?


LTGF was the secret slvt, so that's way, way different from an actual WW, so I dodged a real big bullet, since marriage was very much on the menu. I was a very conservative Christian and had a number of hours of college level theology, taken for my own edification.



thatbpguy said:


> 2) After you either found out you had been betrayed or had betrayed, how did it affect your faith, or, did it drive you towards or away from God/religion, if even temporarily?


It had no effect on my beliefs in the short term. However, her sudden conversion to over the top promiscuity (an extreme version of something I'd seen many times before with other "Christian" girls, not just limited to XGFs) combined with all the church related sexual shenanigans I had seen and heard about* eventually got me interested in the topic of what drives female sexual behavior and how that intersects with their spiritual lives/beliefs.

*My dad was a deacon who worked as a detective when I was growing up, so he investigated a number of pastor scandals for the deacon boards of some of the churches in the local association.



thatbpguy said:


> I ask as my betraying ex was, literally, a 2 hour+ Bible reader and prayer each and every day I knew her. As devout a woman as I have ever met in my life.


When I was 21, an earlier GF than the one mentioned above explained to me that God was always okay with whatever a girl wanted to do, because all girls were (as they say today) special snowflakes with special circumstantial exemptions.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Divorce and forgiveness are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> You could have also handed this one back to her... "But Sweetie, Jesus said I could divorce you! Seriously, look it up... It's in the Bible!"


The New Testament only requires you forgive IF the offender asks for your forgiveness in honesty and humility. You are not required to forgive if they don't ask. 

However, if you choose to unilaterally forgive someone then that is for your own edification and to set yourself free from the bondage of anger and resentment.... Not to set THEM free.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> When I was 21, an earlier GF than the one mentioned above explained to me that God was always okay with whatever a girl wanted to do, because all girls were (as they say today) special snowflakes with special circumstantial exemptions.


What the...












bandit.45 said:


> The New Testament only requires you forgive IF the offender asks for your forgiveness in honesty and humility. You are not required to forgive if they don't ask.
> 
> *However, if you choose to unilaterally forgive someone then that is for your own edification and to set yourself free from the bondage of anger and resentment.... Not to set THEM free.*


Correct! :smthumbup:


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> What the...


Jackie meets the Rationalization Hamster!


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> When I was 21, an earlier GF than the one mentioned above explained to me that God was always okay with whatever a girl wanted to do, because all girls were (as they say today) special snowflakes with special circumstantial exemptions.


Isn't that the attitude of most "religious" betrayers?

I also find it amusing at the rate that they become religious based on their need to satisfy their critics after adultery. Smoke and mirrors? It is not always based on their need to know about God or truth. Seldom does a quest for truth enter into their equation.

Good points on the idea that divorce and forgiveness are NOT related. I believe my heart is more peaceful BECAUSE of my divorce. Peace is part of forgiveness for me.

It is amazing to read about the continued torment many in R experience. I simply could not endure it. The D was a blessing to both of us.

Religion is an interesting variable in betrayal. My only thread was about this same issue. I am glad to know thatbpguy is thinking about it too.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Wasn't religious before, but prayed tons during the divorce. I always said *"God, please make this go away. Help me fix this if your out there."*

I stopped praying as I didn't want him to take me up on my request anymore.. Or he might have been hard of hearing and understood please make *HER* go away or just interpreted this as her..


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> Wasn't religious before, but prayed tons during the divorce. I always said *"God, please make this go away. Help me fix this if your out there."*
> 
> I stopped praying as I didn't want him to take me up on my request anymore.. Or he might have been hard of hearing and understood please make *HER* go away or just interpreted this as her..


:rofl:

I tend to feel the same way. No disrespect to God or believers. Maybe the betrayal is a blessing in the grand scheme of things.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> :rofl:
> 
> I tend to feel the same way. No disrespect to God or believers. Maybe the betrayal is a blessing in the grand scheme of things.


Same way here.. I don't believe myself honestly and I said it more out of a way to cope honestly. I just didn't know how to handle it *(thus hardtohandle).*. It was literally an emotional and sensory overload.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Where does the idea come from that because one believes in Christ, goes to church, reads the Bible, and prays daily... that somehow they miraculously become perfect beings and should therefore be incapable of doing bad things ever again? Do we try not to do bad things? Well, yes. But we'll never be truly successful otherwise why would we even need Christ in the first place?

So, OP, sorry, I can't answer your question. I can say that yes, I am not surprised by a situation in which a WS is a Christian. It's much the same way that I can imagine a Christian may tell a lie, cheat on their taxes, or exceed the speed limit. Not one of us is truly good. But I don't think any true Christians claim to be.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

i love this and its perfect for this thread. 
http://youtu.be/fpQNLZRcNA4


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

cool12 said:


> I love this and it's perfect for this thread.
> *Iris DeMent : God May Forgive You (But I Won't) - YouTube*


*An Absolute Classic!*


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

love iris!


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