# Ultra-Vanilla sex -- Am I "selfish" for Wanting More?



## savid (Dec 22, 2013)

I have as much sex as I want. I should have no problems, right?

Background -- My W and I have been married 8 years, known each other for 15. We have a 5 year old and a 3 year old. As I said, I can have sex when I want it -- 2-3 times per week. Before I get flamed, I KNOW that I have it better than 90% of the guys on here, and I really, REALLY feel for those in sexless marriages.

Here's the problem: when we have sex, the routine is always this. She takes her pants off, leaves her shirt on, turns off the light, spreads her legs and snaps her fingers (jokingly) to say "let's get on with it".

No kissing, no nudity, no foreplay. No positions other than missionary -- she won't let me. She wants me to pump away and finish up. She orgasms about 25% of the time. I've never received a real blowjob. That's right -- never. I'm eager to eat her out, and she let me go down on her while dating (a decade ago), but she won't let me any more. Needless to say, when I've tried anal play I've been rapidly shot down and anal sex -- well, forget about it. I have been turned down for literally any other sex activity than what I listed above.

She claims this is the way sex is with kids. When I told her last night -- very gently and not in these words -- that I essentially want her to embrace her "inner ****" she got furious, said I hurt her, said some really bad things about me, and told me I was selfish.

TL;DR: I have sex, but to call it vanilla would be the understatement of the century. Do I have it good, and should I shut the hell up? She says I have unrealistic expectations created by porno. Don't other couples have nasty sex with oral, toys, butt play, dirty talk, etc.? I've never experienced any of those things.

Final note -- I was a virgin when we met (she has had sex with 3 other guys) and didn't know what to expect sexually. She was molested once as a child, and I think she married me in part because I was completely sexually non-threatening. I'm having a sexual awakening of sorts -- I'm 36 and really want to get nasty before I get too old.

Sorry this is so long! Thoughts?


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I'd almost rather not have it than have it the way you describe. Sounds like the emotional aspect is totally missing from those encounters and this kind of emotionless sex sex you could get anywhere. "The way sex is with kids" is just a way to rationalize her behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## savid (Dec 22, 2013)

I agree with you there. It seems we have some emotional connection in other facets of life, but with sex it just ain't there. Here I am getting hung up at the "extras" I'm not getting, and you make a very good point -- I thought women had sex FOR the emotional connection?


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

No that is not a rare problem. 
Yes I suppose that we are corrupted somewhat by pornography. Even when the girls are not really enjoying it they usually act like it sufficiently for the guys. 

It is not uncommon in my experience for women to be insecure about their bodies. My wife prefers to keep her top on. and while we have tried other positions she prefers the same one every time.

You are probably having sex more than is optimal for her needs thus wanting to get it done quickly and not reaching the O.

Not wanting foreplay is somewhat unusual even women that are uncomfortable with their guys head down there usually like to be touched. She sounds more insecure than most. 

Does she like massages?


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

No there is nothing wrong with you. Your situation really sucks. Actually, it sucks for the BOTH of you. As you get older, it is going to suck even more.

You two have GOT to find a way to really talk and explore. Perhaps outside of the bedroom is a safe place to talk. Lots and lots of talking.

Your expectations are NOT unrealistic. You are both missing out. And those lists of "unrealistic" things? They are merely the tip of the iceberg. Close emotional bonding, imho, is the key to you two getting to a point where you can BEGIN to comfortably explore the possibilities. I suggest that she gets her little butt on this forum too. Feel free to message me.

Good luck. For both of your sakes.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

You and your wife really need to enter MC and possible IC. Being sexually molested is an extremely traumatizing experience. Add to that she may have had some bad experiences with an ex BF or two.

You're probably right in that you are her safe harbor for sex.

For your wife and yourself, go get some professional help. ASAP


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Your wife is confusing the need for sex with the need to ejaculate.

If she only orgasms 25% of the time, would you be willing to cut back on the number of times you have sex for a while? My thinking is that is you cut back on the number per week the chances of her actually WANTING to have sex will increase, thus making it a tad easier for you to introduce more playful scenarios. 

The thing is, she is trying, in her own way to meet your needs. She knows that sex is very important to you so she makes sure she's open and available for sex often. Her mindset is that as long as you ejaculate frequently, she's being a good wife to you.

So pick you battle. What's more important, good quality sex or frequent sex?

Could you deal with having great sex once every other week for a few months? During this time you focus on arousing her and keeping her aroused without actually having sex. You romance her, flirt with her touch her often, kiss her often, dance in the kitchen with her, nibble on her neck, hug her from behind her, rub her back...but don't have sex. You do this for several days in a row after having gone for 5 days without any sex. 

Then the night you think is right to have sex, make sure she has some wine with dinner. At that point you don't wait till she gets in bed. You follow her upstairs and kiss her, hold her while dressed. Then you slowly undress her, caressing each part of her body as it is revealed.

In other words, you don't ask for permission to seduce her, you just seduce her!


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

savid said:


> I have as much sex as I want. I should have no problems, right?
> 
> Background -- My W and I have been married 8 years, known each other for 15. We have a 5 year old and a 3 year old. As I said, I can have sex when I want it -- 2-3 times per week. Before I get flamed, I KNOW that I have it better than 90% of the guys on here, and I really, REALLY feel for those in sexless marriages.
> 
> ...



Your wifee married you because you are safe, non threatening and she can settle down and have kids. She did not marry you to have fun, wild, and crazy sex.

She was molested as a child. That's horrible. Did she ever get therapy and really heal? Or has she done nothing and now you get, lets get it over with sex? The reason for the emotional disconnect is probably from the molestation.

Having sex 2 - 3x week isn't sex whenever you want. That's about the average and nothing crazy. Now having sex 1x almost every day (6x week) is crazy good.

Have you and the wifee sat down and taken the 5 love languages quiz? Afterwards, compare the results. You will then know what each others love languages truly are and which one is the highest. My wifee and I posted our results on the fridge as a daily reminder. Mine is Physical 12 and hers is Acts of Service 12. So she wants to please me sexually and instead of being pleased sexually by me. It's the way she is and I help her and do things for her without being asked and surprises.

http://www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/

My wifee wanted sex 1x month until I came to TAM, learned much from everyone and we took the 5 love languages quiz together. Now the sex is about 3x week and its not snap, get it over with.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The next worse thing to no sex is bad sex. You've got bad sex. Her attitudes and perspectives are the problem. You may need MC to deal with this, and she may need IC to get over her very negative attitudes.

If that doesn't work and you want to experience good sex before you get too old, there's only divorce as a good option. There are plenty of good, fun, sexual women looking for good men. I found a bunch, and married the best.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

And, you probably shot yourself in the foot asking for anal! A woman who isn't sexually expressive and doesn't climax easily is NOT a candidate for anal sex!


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"And, you probably shot yourself in the foot asking for anal!"

Yes I agree, that was a bridge (way) too far. 

It seems like in porn these days there can hardly be a scene without anal sex which makes is seem much more neutral than it really is.


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## Jakobi Greenleaf (Sep 19, 2012)

This may come off as crass, but regarding your wife's abuse: I would tell her that you have no intention of spending the rest of your life paying for someone else's transgressions. 
Is what happened terrible? Yes. She she and/or you be in counciling over it? Yes. Should you be on the hook for something you had no part in? Not a chance.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

Utilitarian intercourse for years- ugh. Sounds awful. The things you're asking for are normal within a marriage imo.

Does she leave her shirt on because she has body image issues? Or is she afraid she'll have to jump up and tend to a kid problem at any moment? Can you two get away for a weekend once in a while without kids?

Agree that ya'll need to go sit down with a sex therapist. She needs an impartial third party to tell her your desires are not unreasonable and that you both could and should improve your sex life together.

I mean, if she can REALLY climax 25% of the time with the scenario you describe, I think that's pretty darn good. I don't think I could!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

savid said:


> I have as much sex as I want. I should have no problems, right?
> 
> Background -- My W and I have been married 8 years, known each other for 15. We have a 5 year old and a 3 year old. As I said, I can have sex when I want it -- 2-3 times per week. Before I get flamed, I KNOW that I have it better than 90% of the guys on here, and I really, REALLY feel for those in sexless marriages.
> 
> ...


Many of us would appreciate a wife this kind.... However you want her to broaden the menu... What could be her motivation for doing so?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

savid said:


> I have as much sex as I want. I should have no problems, right?
> 
> Background -- My W and I have been married 8 years, known each other for 15. We have a 5 year old and a 3 year old. As I said, I can have sex when I want it -- 2-3 times per week. Before I get flamed, I KNOW that I have it better than 90% of the guys on here, and I really, REALLY feel for those in sexless marriages.
> 
> ...


Did she tell you she was sexually molested before or after you were married?


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

savid said:


> Here's the problem: when we have sex, the routine is always this. She takes her pants off, leaves her shirt on, turns off the light, spreads her legs and snaps her fingers (jokingly) to say "let's get on with it".


Leaving her shirt on is certainly odd. What is her reasoning behind that? If she is breastfeeding and her nipples are sore, then it would make more sense for her to use other positions instead (like doggy style). 



> _
> No kissing, no nudity, no foreplay. No positions other than missionary -- she won't let me. She wants me to pump away and finish up.
> _


I don't think you are being "selfish" or unreasonable at all, because it's not just an issue of choices. If my wife acted like this, even if I accepted in my mind I still don't think I would even be able to have sex. I simply wouldn't be physically aroused. 



> _She claims this is the way sex is with kids._


Ask her: "_who says?_". Ask her to name one relationship specialist, marriage counselor, or even religious leader that says anything even remotely like that. 



> _When I told her last night -- very gently and not in these words -- that I essentially want her to embrace her "inner ****" she got furious, said I hurt her, said some really bad things about me, and told me I was selfish._


Bingo! That's the 100% sure-fire indicator that you both need to go to marriage counseling. If you can't even discuss an issue without someone getting extremely upset, then you need a professional to help you. If she is reluctant to go to MC, don't put any emphasis on "fixing her". Don't even mention anything like that. Just tell her the truth - that MC can help you both discuss this issue and others without fighting, and maybe even reach an understanding that you both can live with.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

savid said:


> I thought women had sex FOR the emotional connection?


IMO, that presumes that the woman in question has a positive association with sex. That might not be true with an abuse victim and sounds like what's happening with the OP's wife. She may know that sex is necessary for procreation, or that a guy's biology requires release every 3 days or so, but she will not believe that sex is a positive for the relationship _per se_.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Wanting to try new things isn't bad as long as you go about getting them in the right way. Badgering, guilting, demanding probably won't work. A gentle seduction and gradual ramping of of activities is a much better way to go about it. 

I was a woman trying to convince a husband to try kinkier and kinkier things. I felt a little demanding, a little selfish, and I was afraid he'd give me a WTF face and turn me down. I won't go into what I wanted but suffice to say, it was something my husband had NEVER considered before. But I didn't start there! 

Start off slow. Do not jump from 0 to 60. It will spook her. Little notes, texts, compliments, lingering hugs then kisses.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> So pick you battle. What's more important, good quality sex or frequent sex?


Of course the OP is going to have to compromise at some point - all married couples do. But this advice at this time is inappropriate.

His wife seems totally screwed up. I'm guessing it's due to the sexual abuse. She needs some serious IC to heal as much as possible from the abuse, then they need some MC so she really understands male sexuality, then they compromise.

Asking him to base his sex life upon his wife's damaged emotional state is not fair to him; he doesn't deserve to be a secondary victim. She needs to get healthy and then they can compromise. Of course it is not fair that she was abused, but unfortunately it did happen to her and it falls to her to get healthy.

Also, I completely agree with the OP's sense that his wife picked him because he was inexperienced and perceived to be sexually non-demanding. She's had prior boyfriends and knows what guys expect. She married him not to provide him a good experience, but to get her needs met without having to give much sexually in return. Kinda sounds like she victimized him in that regard, huh?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Along with what Anon said - it's likely your wife is already doing more than she would care to. Just like with kids when it takes an enormous amount of patience and giving on your part to make them happy in a scenario and they then complain - this leads to quick anger.

Having said that - no, I don't find you selfish for wanting some variety and passion. I find myself in the same situation only I am a woman. I find it remarkable that your wife has an orgasm 25% of the time - that seems like a lot to me under the circumstances! 

In any case - I'm 44 and was going along with the vanilla same show, different day sex for a decade and suddenly found it unbearable. This was in March - it's now 9 months into the situation and there have been times of progress and times of regression. Despite many attempts to change my situation - it honestly never occurs to my husband to do anything but the exact same sexual scenario every single time. It feels good to me - but under the situation provided I am unable to get very excited about things. Any attempts to change up the scenario are met with anger and hurt feelings. 

I guess the moral of my story is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you wanting things to be different. It's also unlikely you will get something different. Unfortunately.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

OP's wife could be damaged from sexual abuse - but it's also very possible she is just the way she is. There are tons of women and men without sexual abuse who behave the exact same way.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

This doesn't sound like a vanilla sex problem, this sounds like an intimacy problem. The refusal to be topless suggests that. She does seem to know sex is important or you wouldn't get anything, so that's good. I agree with Annie in that you have to start slow. How much non sexual touching is there? How much couple time do you spend together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

pink_lady said:


> Does she leave her shirt on because she has body image issues? Or is she afraid she'll have to jump up and tend to a kid problem at any moment?


It sounds like it's part of her method for saying she provides for his release while in truth being as unstimulating as possible. Keeping her shirt on goes hand-in-hand with missionary only, no foreplay, etc.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

DTO said:


> Of course the OP is going to have to compromise at some point - all married couples do. But this advice at this time is inappropriate.
> 
> His wife seems totally screwed up. I'm guessing it's due to the sexual abuse. She needs some serious IC to heal as much as possible from the abuse, then they need some MC so she really understands male sexuality, then they compromise.
> 
> ...


It's also possible that he hasn't taken a seductive approach, or that he's gone too far too fast, or that she simply isn't a sexually expressive person to begin with. It's possible that her history of CSA keeps her repressed, but this could be said for anyone who is not a sexually passionate person. There are all sorts of reasons why a person may be lack luster in bed and all of them, IMO, are abuse related. Recovering catholic, lazy lover, emotional trauma from being caught masturbating, overly religious and restrictive upbringing, teased in the locker room, previous lover was demanding and cruel....

Gosh, when you think about it, I bet there are more couples with one or both partners sexually repressed than there are couples with both partners open and explorative.

So how does a partner move the sex life from repressed to open, passionate and explorative?

Talking, sharing, understanding, gentle challenging, seducing, learning, exploring, building confidence, creating a safe zone in bed together, encouraging each other...

OP needs to stay away from porn too, cause asking a wife for anal when she doesn't even orgasm all the time...that's just stupid!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> It's also possible that he hasn't taken a seductive approach, or that he's gone too far too fast, or that she simply isn't a sexually expressive person to begin with. It's possible that her history of CSA keeps her repressed, but this could be said for anyone who is not a sexually passionate person. There are all sorts of reasons why a person may be lack luster in bed and all of them, IMO, are abuse related. Recovering catholic, lazy lover, emotional trauma from being caught masturbating, overly religious and restrictive upbringing, teased in the locker room, previous lover was demanding and cruel....
> 
> Gosh, when you think about it, I bet there are more couples with one or both partners sexually repressed than there are couples with both partners open and explorative.
> 
> ...


Hadn't even thought of that one: 25% of the time isn't that much and not a lot of incentive. Not many women are going to be receptive to kinkier sex if they don't get off. There could be a lot of reasons why she doesn't get off more so it might not have anything to do with OP but it is worth exploring. I might even wonder if its that much, she seems to want it over so maybe she fakes it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't know if this will help but here goes.

I've been married for about 14 years and my wifee from day one was LD vanilla, never initiated and covered herself up. All this changed when she finally got it, started watching how much she eats every day, finding out her daily caloric needs and now she has lost 17 lbs in 7 weeks. Now she wants sex about 3x week instead if 1x month. She never covers herself up when having sex anymore. She is more affectionate with me. Her confidence is going up. She is starting to wear sexier clothes from the on going weight loss. She no longer says get it over with - sex. We took the 5 love languages quiz together and posted the results on the fridge as a daily reminder for each other. She is going to the gym as of January.

I am still trying to figure out what started her wanting to seriously lose the weight and get in shape. My prayers to God. She is 35 now and pre menopause sex drive increase. Perhaps its both? But I am very grateful none the less. If this weight loss trend continues and her gym training starts in January, one year from now she could be 40+ lbs lighter and that would give her an insane emotional boost. Imagine her sex drive with adventurous sex at that point?!

At one point I thought she was abused as a child, never told anyone or remembered. Perhaps she is a lesbian and never told anyone, including me? I thought of everything. But all it was, is the weight issue. So weight does play a huge role in sex drives and wanting sex in the first place.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

That sounds horrifyingly boring. I don't have any advice really, but wanted to let you know that I can say as a married woman with two kids, 6 and 4, that no, that's not normal.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

This is terrible sex. Why won't she take her top off? That seems odd. I love my husband sucking and rubbing my breasts. She is completely disrespecting you and the marriage bed. She has also shamed you into thinking that your sexual cravings stem from porn. My DH and I have had 4 kids in 7 years, which was years ago, nevertheless, we ALWAYS escaped to our bedroom to have that sexual excitement that carries you through the long mundane days of childrearing. It helped us recharge.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I guess different strokes for different folks. My wife could not care less if I touched her breasts. I have not asked her why she keeps her shirt on. Perhaps it is convenience, certainly winter time it would be warmer, maybe she does not want them bouncing around, whatever. I do not see it as a problem. If she feels more comfortable with a shirt on than why should she not wear one?


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> I guess different strokes for different folks. My wife could not care less if I touched her breasts. I have not asked her why she keeps her shirt on. Perhaps it is convenience, certainly winter time it would be warmer, maybe she does not want them bouncing around, whatever. I do not see it as a problem. If she feels more comfortable with a shirt on than why should she not wear one?


I live in a very cold climate and that has nothing to do with me walking around with no bra under my shirt, and especially in bed with my husband. We both benefit from the skin to skin contact. If my DH didn't grab and rub on my breasts, even in the kitchen or watching TV, I would wonder what is wrong?:scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

usmarriedguy said:


> I guess different strokes for different folks. My wife could not care less if I touched her breasts. I have not asked her why she keeps her shirt on. Perhaps it is convenience, certainly winter time it would be warmer, maybe she does not want them bouncing around, whatever. I do not see it as a problem. If she feels more comfortable with a shirt on than why should she not wear one?


Really? I'd be pretty bummed if my H didn't want to see/touch my nude body...


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> I find it remarkable that your wife has an orgasm 25% of the time - that seems like a lot to me under the circumstances!


Yeah, I have to mention again- for a women who's not into sex to have ANY orgasms through utilitarian missionary sex with no kissing, no foreplay, no oral and no touching is pretty unusual.

How does she even get lubricated?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

pink_lady said:


> Yeah, I have to mention again- for a women who's not into sex to have ANY orgasms through utilitarian missionary sex with no kissing, no foreplay, no oral and no touching is pretty unusual.
> 
> How does she even get lubricated?


Frankly, I find it impossible to believe she's having orgasms at all, much less 25% of the time, under those circumstances.

Maybe she's never had an orgasm and doesn't even know how to have one, or that it's even possible to have one.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Congratulations - you win the prize of having an even more vanilla wife than I do - I at least get nudity and kissing. 

I'm here to tell you that based on my experience pool of one marriage, things won't improve at all until you find a way to force the issue. I can't tell you what that means in your marriage, or specifically how you go about it, but as long as you settle for what you're getting in bed, you'll continue to get nothing more.

If and when you do see positive change, it won't be by leaps and bounds. This is a war of decades and inches, and you'd better be ready for a very, very long slog. I despair for your chances of ever getting a sexually expressive wife, because I just don't see that as a very likely outcome for you. 

The only advice I can give is to put as much positive spin as you can on each and every win you get, no matter how small. Be effusive with praise even when you think the little tiny thing she did for you in bed - like take of her shirt one night - is so small and unremarkable that it doesn't count as progress. What you see as a simple matter of "just do it" will never look that way to your wife. 

Best of luck. Get back to me in a couple of decades and we can compare notes.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

pink_lady said:


> Yeah, I have to mention again- for a women who's not into sex to have ANY orgasms through utilitarian missionary sex with no kissing, no foreplay, no oral and no touching is pretty unusual.
> 
> How does she even get lubricated?


Lubrication comes in many formulas, with colorful bottles and funny names. I haven't had sex in 25 years without first applying some.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

usmarriedguy said:


> I guess different strokes for different folks. My wife could not care less if I touched her breasts. I have not asked her why she keeps her shirt on. Perhaps it is convenience, certainly winter time it would be warmer, maybe she does not want them bouncing around, whatever. I do not see it as a problem. If she feels more comfortable with a shirt on than why should she not wear one?


There's an old saying in my house - touch a breast, lose a finger.

- 8 finger Cletus.

She should not wear one because you want to see them, even if you can't touch them. Whatever is a breast for if not for bouncing around during sex?


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## savid (Dec 22, 2013)

Wow, three pages since I logged in yesterday. Guys, I really appreciate the responses. It's a lot to take in. I just wanted to know if I was crazy, but you guys have actually given me good, constructive suggestions. Thank you so much.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> There's an old saying in my house - touch a breast, lose a finger.
> 
> - 8 finger Cletus.
> 
> She should not wear one because you want to see them, even if you can't touch them. Whatever is a breast for if not for bouncing around during sex?


Dang, for a guy with only 8 fingers.... I've never seen a typo in one of your posts. You're pretty talented.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Dang, for a guy with only 8 fingers.... I've never seen a typo in one of your posts. You're pretty talented.


I only lost my opposable thumbs. I wasn't using them anyway.

Happy Festivus!


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

savid said:


> Wow, three pages since I logged in yesterday. Guys, I really appreciate the responses. It's a lot to take in. I just wanted to know if I was crazy, but you guys have actually given me good, constructive suggestions. Thank you so much.


I also want to emphasize BABY STEPS. I firmly believe lots and lots of talking in baby steps. And the root of it all should be because of your feelings for her. Maybe talk won't even be about specific acts for a while. No matter how long it takes, I think the conversation needs to gradually evolve to how much you love her, how much she means to you, and how much emotional connection you feel in becoming ONE with her, talking about what feels good, and getting into very specific details where a single centimeter makes a difference. That may take time, but there has to first be a foundation.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

pink_lady said:


> Really? I'd be pretty bummed if my H didn't want to see/touch my nude body...


I understand but the point is that every person is different and shirt or no shirt is probably a minor point. I understand that the women here at TAM are mostly HD and do not have a lot of sexual hang-ups but I would guess that most of us guys here with LD SO's are experiencing this same behavior to different degrees. 

I have to agree with the recommendation that she get professional help. My wife did and it helped her some but I am pretty sure that she will never be truly uninhibited. But for my wife, she has gone from never giving oral sex as part of foreplay to always giving it and starting to become quite proficient at it and has even let me come in her mouth. Anal will never happen but that suits me fine. I tried dirty talk and it does not turn her on -she thought it was funny. We used to watch pornos together but have not done that for the last few years. Even though I still consider our sex to be pretty vanilla it is generally good. Part of my wife's problem is probably her weight and lack of confidence in her coordination. We have tried several other positions but the one we always use just works much better for her. I see no gain in making her uncomfortable just to use a different position. 

The main thing I think is to try and up your wife's enjoyment of sex. That probably will mean less frequency and getting her to enjoy foreplay. If she is not comfortable with oral than use your finger. Let her lie down and relax while you sit beside her. Start off slow and gently. She may take 10 or 15 minutes just to get her mind in to it.

I do agree that variety is the spice of life and it would suit me much more to mix things up. But then again variety is not everything and I think that most people could have a satisfactory sex life with fairly vanilla sex. 

That being said my wife started out nearly as bad as yours but I had to make it clear it was something that needed to change. It is just a long slow road. I also complicated my effort by undermining her confidence which you should avoid.


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## savid (Dec 22, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> If she is not comfortable with oral than use your finger. Let her lie down and relax while you sit beside her. Start off slow and gently. She may take 10 or 15 minutes just to get her mind in to it.


Thanks, but my wife won't let my hand anywhere near her vagina! Swear to God.:scratchhead:

But honestly, I think those are good tips, and your wife's progression from no oral to consistent oral encourages me. Baby steps, baby steps.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

She is your loving wife and that means she should want to please you and rock your world, always trying new sexual positions, toys and oils, etc. It's not what she wants anymore. She is to take care of your needs as her own. But she isn't doing this and doesn't seem to care. That's an unloving and selfish woman. My wife was almost as bad but only during the last few months, her on going weight loss, has she really started to change. Insecure and shy, LD vanilla due to her size and not wanting to do anything about it for almost 14 years. To me, sex isn't rocket science or difficult. It's enjoyable, fun, wild, passionate and crazy. If she isn't into sex, she should of stayed single until her issues were sorted out. If I went back in time, would I of married another woman, yes. My wifee is loving, faithful, hard working but doing nothing for 14 years, is 14 years of my prime I will never get back. If only all us healthy sex drive spouses knew before we all got married, if our hubby or wifee to be is really LD or not.


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## savid (Dec 22, 2013)

I hear that. As I mentioned in the OP, my biggest problem was that I was a virgin prior to meeting my wife. I had no idea what I was missing: "wow, so it's _normal_ to get blow job? You mean there are positions _other_ than missionary and girl on top? And the sex was somewhat better then -- sure, no blowjobs, but at least she would get into it, get nude and kiss me.

I freaking love my wife. More than that, I really like her . . .if that makes any sense. But if I had to do it again, especially if I have to live the rest of my life with the "sex" like this . . . I don't know.

What's so funny is that she fancies herself a liberated feminist, and makes constant fun of our friend who -- literally -- never f*cks her husband, as if our sexual relationship is normal.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I think a lot of people do not know what is typical, early on my wife seemed to associate good in bed = ****ty and ignorant. 

From what I have read -higher education tends to equal better sex. Maybe not true in every case but true in general. She probably thinks that she is having "normal" sex.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I think better sex = someone who takes care of themselves, very fit, weren't sexually abused or repressed, had good bf or gf's, parents who were cool about sex, etc.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> "And, you probably shot yourself in the foot asking for anal!"
> 
> Yes I agree, that was a bridge (way) too far.
> 
> It seems like in porn these days there can hardly be a scene without anal sex which makes is seem much more neutral than it really is.


You can bridge over to that sexual act by watching porn with her and allow her to gain interest on her own. Keep the sex fun and keep her cumming hard and often.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cora28 said:


> It sounds to me as if she is simply doing duty sex as one reason for her leaving her shirt on is her way of saying ´get this over with asap´ It´s a barrier. Us women also know that if we dont have regular sex with our Hs then we risk losing them to a woman who will, so I take your regular 2-3 times a week as positive from that view point.
> 
> I think you need to start romancing her a bit. Make her feel noticed, tell her she is sexy (us women get self-conscious as we age especially after kids). She is also probably feeling pretty tired with 2 young kids (they take it out of us emotionally and physically) and sex with you is another ´chore´ she probably feels she has to complete. She has just forgotten how to switch off from being mum to being a wife.
> 
> ...


She may be a real team mate for allowing you to have intercourse. So shirt on shirt off, whatever she is comfortable with. As long as you aren't building up resentment, I'd work at changing this dynamic very slowly and do not let her feel bad about herself.

I think she gets a kick out of snapping her fingers. She's trying.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

savid said:


> I hear that. As I mentioned in the OP, my biggest problem was that I was a virgin prior to meeting my wife. I had no idea what I was missing: "wow, so it's _normal_ to get blow job? You mean there are positions _other_ than missionary and girl on top? And the sex was somewhat better then -- sure, no blowjobs, but at least she would get into it, get nude and kiss me.
> 
> I freaking love my wife. More than that, I really like her . . .if that makes any sense. But if I had to do it again, especially if I have to live the rest of my life with the "sex" like this . . . I don't know.
> 
> What's so funny is that she fancies herself a liberated feminist, and makes constant fun of our friend who -- literally -- never f*cks her husband, as if our sexual relationship is normal.


Maybe someone already asked but- would she read this forum? Not necessarily your post but in general? I mean, maybe she does think she's giving you everything she should and those other acts are only in porn! As crazy as that sounds.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

norajane said:


> Frankly, I find it impossible to believe she's having orgasms at all, much less 25% of the time, under those circumstances.
> 
> Maybe she's never had an orgasm and doesn't even know how to have one, or that it's even possible to have one.


I have to agree.

Or I guess it's possible she is actually lucky enough to be a HIGHLY orgasmic woman who has never unleashed her power.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

treyvion said:


> You can bridge over to that sexual act by watching porn with her and allow her to gain interest on her own. Keep the sex fun and keep her cumming hard and often.


I'm chuckling at the OP asking for anal after being shot down trying to finger her. I'm not making fun OP, it's just a crazy picture.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

pink_lady said:


> Maybe someone already asked but- would she read this forum? Not necessarily your post but in general? I mean, maybe she does think she's giving you everything she should and those other acts are only in porn! As crazy as that sounds.


That's basically my wife's position. Why would anyone do any of those other things? Who enjoys that sort of thing? Don't put your hands on my breasts or vaj, I don't like it. Don't put your mouth on my breasts, I don't like it. Oral sex? Disgusting. I don't know how anyone could stand to do that. She's never seen a pornographic movie of any kind - the idea makes her a little queasy. She's been known to get uncomfortable with a R rated sex scene in mainstream moviegoing.

Some folks just missed the sexuality train. That's the wonder of having tails on the distributions of human behavior - someone has to be in the 2%.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

pink_lady said:


> I have to agree.
> 
> Or I guess it's possible she is actually lucky enough to be a HIGHLY orgasmic woman who has never unleashed her power.


And again, you describe my wife. > 90% orgasmic our entire marriage through 10-15 minutes of straight-up intercourse alone. Nothing else but a tube of lube required. 

All of this with no masturbatory life and no toys whatsoever.

Let's put it this way - she is as incredulous that ya'll enjoy everything you do with sex as you are that she doesn't.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

savid said:


> Thanks, but my wife won't let my hand anywhere near her vagina! Swear to God.:scratchhead:


Holy cow, if you are serious about that, then your sex life isn't just dysfunctional, *it's in severe crisis*. MC and sex therapy isn't just an option, it's a must unless you want to live like this the rest of your life. 

When I was *15 years old* I was getting much more variety of sex than you are now.

And BTW it's not just a sex issue; it's a mental health issue. She might have much bigger demons than you know. I wouldn't be surprised if that one incident of her being molested might have in truth been many incidents over many years.


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## savid (Dec 22, 2013)

Cletus said:


> That's basically my wife's position. Why would anyone do any of those other things? Who enjoys that sort of thing? Don't put your hands on my breasts or vaj, I don't like it. Don't put your mouth on my breasts, I don't like it. Oral sex? Disgusting. I don't know how anyone could stand to do that. She's never seen a pornographic movie of any kind - the idea makes her a little queasy. She's been known to get uncomfortable with a R rated sex scene in mainstream moviegoing.
> 
> Some folks just missed the sexuality train. That's the wonder of having tails on the distributions of human behavior - someone has to be in the 2%.


Holy sh!t, Cletus -- are we married to the same woman? "Why would anyone do those sorts of things?" When I'm naked in front of her -- and trust me, I'm far from hideous -- she shudders when she sees my genitallia. Yes, in part to be funny, but she acts like penises are disgusting. And the "don't touch/put your mouth on my breasts/ get your hand off my vagina NOW" stuff -- dead on. She thinks pornography is disgusting. I was so horny when she was on her period last month that I coaxed her in to giving me a handjob -- the first one I've gotten in at least 10 years. When I came on her hand she grunts "ewww" and runs in the bathroom to wash it off. I get it; semen is not milk and honey, but don't act like it's hydrochloric acid, either.

We had the latest "talk" (read -- fight) because she found a sexless marriage book on my Amazon browsing history. "Marry a *****,(prostitute)," she said. "Because I will never, ever, do these things for you."

It makes me want to cheat on her out of pure anger, and rub her face in the fact that I found someone who isn't disgusted by my penis. Sorry, I'm ranting now.

Oh, and someone asked "would she read this forum?" No, definitely not on her own. She thinks we have a strong marriage. Although she is absolutely convinced that I am going to cheat on her at some point because of these issues. Meanwhile, I'm thinking "if you're so terrified that I'm going to cheat, why don't you just CHANGE?"

Finally, I know marriage is a 2 way street, and there are things I can do to strengthen intimacy, etc. But she needs to take some responsibility for changing herself.

Cletus, I'd like to know your history -- I'm going to comb over your posts. Could I PM you some time?


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## savid (Dec 22, 2013)

BrockLanders said:


> I'm chuckling at the OP asking for anal after being shot down trying to finger her. I'm not making fun OP, it's just a crazy picture.


Brock, and others, -- When I "asked" for anal, it was a very gentle joke/suggestion a decade ago. The way she almost jumped out of the bed shut that down. In the years since, she's dropped reminders in conversation about how anal is disgusting, and the ass is for exit only, etc.

Just so you know that I'm not pounding her with pleas for anal all the time, or anything like that. It was a one time thing, many years ago.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

savid said:


> Brock, and others, -- When I "asked" for anal, it was a very gentle joke/suggestion a decade ago. The way she almost jumped out of the bed shut that down. In the years since, she's dropped reminders in conversation about how anal is disgusting, and the ass is for exit only, etc.
> 
> Just so you know that I'm not pounding her with pleas for anal all the time, or anything like that. It was a one time thing, many years ago.


I'm sure it was, it was just funny to think of the progression of requests from mild to over the top. I would imagine most women aren't open to anal anyway, especially having tried it once or twice.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

savid said:


> she acts like penises are disgusting.
> 
> Finally, I know marriage is a 2 way street, and there are things I can do to strengthen intimacy, etc. But she needs to take some responsibility for changing herself.


Yeah, definitely sounds like a crisis.

I used to be that way about the penis, until a few months ago. I did not even like to touch it. But I knew dh really liked it, and I wanted to make him happy, so sometimes, if he really wanted it . .

And then I accidentally stumbled onto marriage forums! And all the stories of dysfunction and divorce scared the pants off me! And now I am blowing dh every day! Who knew?!

It is amazing what you can do, and even start to enjoy, when you decide you need to do it.

So there is hope. But there needs to be motivation.

If she is willing to do duty sex, I think you can build from there. I am in the minority on this, but I think it is okay to just insist on some things.

How about a frank talk on the responsibilities of marriage? You write down on a piece of paper what you are bringing to the marriage, and what she is bringing. Ask her what she would like you to bring, and what you would like her to bring, specifically. Set a timeline. Set consequences.

You are missing out on so much, and so is she. I bet someday she will thank you for your leadership on this. I wish I had had a more giving attitude right away, even if it was somewhat imposed. Who wants to look back and say gee, I could have given him so much pleasure? It really wouldn't have taken much . . .

Interestingly enough, dh agrees with the posters who say just be patient and kind, and be grateful for what you have. He says it takes time. But he used to insist I at least caress it. Well, he would say he asked, but I felt like I had to do it.

And he did say your wife needs a spanking.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

"When I came on her hand she grunts "ewww" and runs in the bathroom to wash it off."

My wife was somewhat like that also. Since I have been reading more it seems that there are also men who are like that. But I think your wife is a more extreme case. I also tried a book early on and my wife would not look at it.

I really doubt that she is going to be able to change without getting therapy or having to change to keep from you leaving.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

IMO, your wife's behavior borders on abusive. Not in regards to frequency, or even being extremely vanilla. The abuse would seem to be emotional in my opinion. Once you've made it clear (and I trust you have) how much distress this issue causes you, for her to say "go marry a hooker" shows an astounding lack of regard for your feelings.

If one spouse is causing pain or distress to the other by virtue of their behavior, knows it, and is unwilling to at least explore changing that behavior...what else can you call that besides abusive?


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

She's not going to change unless she wants to. And no matter what you say or do or try, you can't make that happen. Only she can.

It's a crap shoot. Spend the next few years "working on it" or make other plans. I feel for ya bud. I "tried" and feel like I wasted 5 years I could've been spending with a woman who actually likes sex.

My stbx said to me (in tears) once "I feel like you want me to change who I am". Uh, no, I never wanted you to change from who you "were" when we got married.

What's that saying...."Have sex with your spouse and have it good and often, because if you don't somebody else will."

She's made her choice. Doesn't mean it has to be forced on you too.

Good luck.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

savid said:


> Holy sh!t, Cletus -- are we married to the same woman? "Why would anyone do those sorts of things?" When I'm naked in front of her -- and trust me, I'm far from hideous -- she shudders when she sees my genitallia. Yes, in part to be funny, but she acts like penises are disgusting.


Savid (and Cletus too),

Have you considered the possibility that your wife is a closet lesbian? Not trying to be flippant, but from your description of your wife, there are like a million red flags going off that scream a sexuality other than heterosexual. I think it's a possibility that you have to at least consider. Another reason I recommend couples therapy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I think asexual is more likely than homosexual.

Maybe read through this a little bit and see if it sounds like your wife:

The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think asexual is more likely than homosexual.


I considered asexual, but think it's unlikely since she does orgasm. But that is a small possibility too.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Asexual people can and do have orgasms.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My W was abused as a young girl, and had abusive relationships in her past. We don't have vanilla sex. She refuses to be a victim her entire life. From my viewpoint, it sounds as though your wife thinks of herself as a victim and can't get out of the mindset. She knows sex is part of being married, but that's her only ticket to the show, so to speak. And it's a little passive/aggressive to accuse you of ruining things with porn. There's nothing wrong with wanting something besides missionary.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Theseus said:


> I considered asexual, but think it's unlikely since she does orgasm. But that is a small possibility too.


She may be asexual and asexuals may orgasm, but that point aside, I'm not convinced this woman has orgasms from the way the OP described their sex life..no touching, no kissing, no clitoral stimulation at all, clothes on during sex, one position, no oral, she does an imitation of a corpse while he's on top of her... In that context, I find it a difficult to believe she can let go enough to orgasm...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think asexual is more likely than homosexual.
> 
> Maybe read through this a little bit and see if it sounds like your wife:
> 
> The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org


Not mine.

She experiences sexual attraction. Not as frequently as I do, but that's not the litmus test. I have seen her aroused on many occasions.

Unimaginative goal oriented control freak is more like the label I would use. Sex is well and good and fulfilling as long as its expression is constrained to the limited definition to which she subscribes.

Her position has always been "if it ain't broke, why fix it?". If we're both experiencing sexual pleasure from our once or twice weekly sack time, there's no need to explore other things to try. An orgasm is an orgasm. It's great, but you don't need 10 different ways to get there when you already have one that works so well.

The only thing she has a true aversion to is oral sex, but that's certainly not unusual. Other things have been given the old college try, but were found to be unsatisfactory.

I find myself in the odd position of defending her, but "lesbian" and "asexual" are not even remotely applicable labels.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Some practical thoughts for the OP:

Don't use dirty language. She clearly hates it. 

Don't describe any sex acts as "nasty" I suspect you don't use that word to her face but if you do, stop. Now.

Could you get her to shower or bath with you? Have her wash your genitalia? Get her more accepting in a super clean environment?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Not mine.
> 
> Unimaginative goal oriented control freak is more like the label I would use.


Sorry, just had to laugh at your description. Sometimes we moms can get into this rut. Kids, as much as love them, can really take all our energy, and that takes a toll on a marriage.

Good luck resolving your issue.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MrAvg said:


> 90% of the sex is in between your ears not legs. So I started working on becoming her lover again not just father of her sons and a hubby. I read some articles and talked with some close friends and a counselor.
> 
> DW did not really relax about the mommy thing until the boys were in their teens.
> 
> ...


This is really good.

I tell dh regularly, "Make love to my ears." Words of affirmation really make a difference with sexual response.

And anything a husband can say or do to make her feel that her body is not a ruin after childbirth will be helpful. But be warned: you might have say those things for the rest of life. The pressure out there for women to have the "perfect" body is overwhelming.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

ClimbingTheWalls said:


> Don't describe any sex acts as "nasty" I suspect you don't use that word to her face but if you do, stop. Now.


I would agree with this. I don't particularly like that word either- nor do I like "sl*tty" or god forbid "c*nt" or any reference to taking money for sex acts.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

savid said:


> When I'm naked in front of her -- and trust me, I'm far from hideous -- she shudders when she sees my genitallia. Yes, in part to be funny, but she acts like penises are disgusting.


This is abusive, in my view.

Can you imagine what we would say if the genders were reversed here? The guy would be eviscerated.

I have some abuse in my background also (an older brother who walked around nude and tried to make me watch him masturbate- this went on for years). So I developed some aversion to the male genitalia.

But the men I've had relationships with were NOT my brother. And I knew they needed me to worship their equipment, just as I wanted them to worship mine. Not only would I not punish them for my brother's screwed up mind and behavior, but I would not let him damage my sexual relationships.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Her position has always been "if it ain't broke, why fix it?". If we're both experiencing sexual pleasure from our once or twice weekly sack time, there's no need to explore other things to try. An orgasm is an orgasm.


But the problem with that attitude (as I assume you've pointed out), is that marriage is a partnership, so things are "broken" if one person is unhappy and unfulfilled. Hitting orgasm is not the only goal of having sex.


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## HappyandInLove (Oct 13, 2011)

I would suggest little ways to spice things up. Pour a bath for the two of you after the kids go to bed. Chat and wash each other's bodies. If you can introduce intimacy outside the bedroom perhaps you can open doors for some wilder times. Have you tried being intimate at different times of the day? Night time nookie can be a killer for tired moms. Help her with stuff around the house so sex becomes the one thing she looks forward to not something that is going to put her further behind.... Good luck!


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