# Fluids



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

My W claims that she’s disgusted by her bodily fluids, and s*x in general. Little background – s*x and the marriage started going downhill after kid #2. She tells me she has zero interest in s*x, but she gives me the duty stuff. She’s in her mid-40’s with depression, anxiety, and she thinks she in perimenopause. I think she’s pretty insecure about her body as well, although I think she’s attractive, and tell/show her. Back to the fluids…she’ll make comments about “the smell” during the deed, and if have to reinsert, and then touch her, she flips out. Knowing this, I’ll wipe my hand, but sometimes that’s not good enough.

I've asked her if there was any kind of abuse, rape, etc. in her past. She says no. I realize that all of this could just be the result of the breakdown in the marriage/relationship.

Anyone have any experience with this?


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

I'm guessing she's not a doctor or nurse.....


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> I'm guessing she's not a doctor or nurse.....


SAHM. No experience in the med field.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

She does realize fluid is a natural release of a healthy body in response to increased sexual desire, correct? I mean, she does know it's a good thing it's present..right?


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Was her birth experience with child #2 particularly traumatic?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm going with the usual she's using this as an excuse to not have sex.


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## Chore (Jul 15, 2013)

Just a thought ... are your kids still little? Do you have pets? It could be that she is suffering from "fluid overload". I'm serious. If you get up in the morning and have messes to clean up all day long - multiple "fluids" that you are responsible for ... can be kinda hard to ever feel "clean" and sexy!
Maybe fun in the shower? Nice scented massage oil and candles? Yummy cologne for you? Just a touch - not a splash! I have a really sensitive sense of smell, and "smell" is supposed to be the most memory-evocative of the five senses.
I think this may just be a stage - good luck!


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> She does realize fluid is a natural release of a healthy body in response to increased sxual desire, correct? I mean, she does know it's a good thing it's present..right?


I...can't speak for her on that. This was never a problem before.


Starstarfish said:


> Was her birth experience with child #2 particularly traumatic?


I would say no for both births.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Chore - Kids are still at home, but not little. We do have a few pets, and yes, that can get pretty nasty at times. Fun in the shower is out - she wouldn't go for that. She likes the cologne I wear - she bought it for me. A stage...I don't know, I don't see things changing anytime soon.


Mavash. said:


> I'm going with the usual she's using this as an excuse to not have s*x.


That's what my gut says. I figured I'd throw this thread out anyway to see if I could learn something.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

You say she has depression and anxiety. Is she OCD about germs in general, or anything else? It may be an OCD/germ thing for her.

Otherwise, how is your relationship? Do the two of you date? Is there affection that doesn't lead directly to sex? Are the two of you emotionally intimate?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Rowan said:


> You say she has depression and anxiety. Is she OCD about germs in general, or anything else? It may be an OCD/germ thing for her.
> 
> Otherwise, how is your relationship? Do the two of you date? Is there affection that doesn't lead directly to sex? Are the two of you emotionally intimate?


I don't know if she's OCD about it, but yes, she's big on germs/cleanliness. Probably no more than most moms.

Relationship has not been good for years. I've accepted a lot of my faults, and tried to work on the marriage. Not much interest from her. 

We'll do lunch dates now and then, but otherwise the kids are almost always with us. Yes, a few years ago I started doing much better with affection that doesn't lead to s*x....hugs, kisses, etc. Emotionally intimate...not so much...there is a lack of trust for both of us.


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## cloudwithleggs (Oct 13, 2011)

i love the smell of sex, as for bodily fluids it is all good, your wife may have some sexual hangups, i think most women are fine with their own taste.


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

Is she now on birth control? Many of the newer ones can cause a strong aversion to sex. The strong aversion to sex could be manifesting as the disgust she has for fluids. 

Of course, if your marriage has lots of problems to begin with this is probably not the case.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

I used to use "Peri men on pause" as a reason to not have sex. I too had/have depression issues. 
I was actually pulling away from my husband due to kids and not feeling close to someone I fought with all the time - 

If she takes an anti-depressant - it does take the libido away. 

If she's not in the mood, she will be thinking about fluids and getting it over with. 
If she were in the mood, she wouldn't be thinking about fluids until after -

I know I didn't get along with my husband - which caused me to naturally pull away from him. I would make excuses to avoid the real reason to avoid fighting further.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Is she a germaphobe? Has she suddenly started to have or say other unusual things that can be a sign of a mental issue brewing up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm just making a guess here.
Birth control pill , meds for anxiety & depression are messing with her hormones. Factor in natural hormonal changes due to age , and other issues ( stressors ) connected to the motherhood , and the biggest of them all , the relationship has been rocky for sometime.

I don't think fluids is the root of the problem.
Usually with peri women , lack of fluids is a problem.
The problem is fixable , but she has to want to fix it.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Readytogo – interesting. I think it explains some of it.

She’s not on BC or an AD. No prescription meds that I know of.

*“Has she suddenly started to have or say other unusual things that can be a sign of a mental issue brewing up?”*
Possibly, but if she’s correct with her self-diagnosis (anxiety, depression, perimenopause, etc.) + her knocking back a few beers every night, I don’t know if I’d be able to tell what’s causing the unusual things she says/does at times.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm in total agreement with Caribbean.

She has to become a principal in the solving of her own problem by first coming to admit that "she, indeed, is the owner of that problem!"

Then and only then, and greatly provided that it isn't a medical problem of some kind, I'd be forced to say that either she would need to find herself an IC, or the two of you would need to consult an MC, or perhaps a good qualified sex therapist!

In any event, I wish you nothing but the best of luck, my friend


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> *She’s not on BC or an AD. No prescription meds that I know of.*
> 
> Possibly, but if she’s correct with her *self-diagnosis *(anxiety, depression, perimenopause, etc.) +* her knocking back a few beers every night,* I don’t know if I’d be able to tell what’s causing the unusual things she says/does at times.


So, it might be the time to gently suggest to her that she needs to consider that her (self-diagnosed) depression/anxiety/perimenopause needs to be diagnosed for real -- and then treated, because it's causing real issues for her, and you, and in your marriage. 

Knocking back a few beers each night is not going to help depression (as everyone knows, alcohol is a depressant itself). Both perimenopause and depression will cause lack of libido, and if she's depressed, negative self-image can certainly be a part of that. 

This is not something that's going to get better on its own, and treatment (esp for the perimenopause if it's still pretty early for her) has a chance of helping her to feel better. 

But realize this -- you can't force her to get treatment for anything. You can only encourage her to want to feel better for her. If she's not happy with you right now, asking her to do it for you may only make her more resistant. Ask her if she's really enjoying life right now. Ask her if she thinks she could enjoy life, her kids, etc., more if she wasn't as depressed, anxious, etc. If she feels you've been pressuring her on sex, you might want to hold off on mentioning that. You said you're both having trust issues, and I assume you'd want her to feel better for many reasons, not just so that she'll have sex with you. She needs to feel that, too.

If she can get her mood issues in control, you might find that she would also be more willing to do some things with you to work on your marriage.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

cloudwithleggs said:


> i love the smell of sex, as for bodily fluids it is all good, your wife may have some sexual hangups, i think most women are fine with their own taste.


I'm having a hard time buying most when it comes to their own taste... as in getting their own fluids in their mouth. I think the smell and getting it elsewhere on their body is just fine, but not in their mouth.

If your wife doesn't mind, great for you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Is she taking anything at all for her depression? Because those anti-depressants can be a MAJOR libido killer. 

Is she on any medication of any sort?

You said there is a lack of trust on both parts. Why? This could be having an adverse effect on your sexual life together.

What is your emotional connection right now? If it's good, that will make her desire you more (as it does for most women). if it is lacking or if she is feeling disrespected/unloved/unheard by you, then this will not make her want to have sex with you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Also, I think this issue is bigger than her "fluid" aversion. 

Sure, she may feel weird about the fluids, but there is a bigger issue here... 

Was she always freaked out by fluids?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Angel – I’ve suggested that she gets pro help…she won’t. She’s never had a pro diagnosis. Her GP put her on a few different ADs in the past, but she always gives up after a few weeks. Like you said, I can’t force her. After reading Codependent No More, I fear that me providing support and staying with her allows her to not have to face these issues and get help. 

On pressuring her for s*x, yes, she tells me that with those exact words. You say that I should hold off on mentioning it. I’ve done that before, but that usually sends her anxiety into overdrive after a few weeks. The accusations start flying, and she wants to have (duty) s*x, I guess to relieve her anxiety/fear. Then the cycle repeats.:banghead:


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> I'm having a hard time buying most when it comes to their own taste... as in getting their own fluids in their mouth. I think the smell and getting it elsewhere on their body is just fine, but not in their mouth.
> 
> If your wife doesn't mind, great for you.


Just chiming in to add: sometimes my husband doesn't wipe his mouth off after oral. I don't even really notice, tbh, there's a whole lot of other things going on and that's probably near the bottom of my priority list 

Agreeing that it does sound like she may want to consider seeing a doctor. They can offer her medications to help regulate her mood and her trip through perimenopause. Good luck.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Readytogo said:


> I used to use "Peri men on pause" as a reason to not have sex. I too had/have depression issues.
> I was actually pulling away from my husband due to kids and not feeling close to someone I fought with all the time -
> 
> If she takes an anti-depressant - it does take the libido away.
> ...


Did you resove this, and if so, how did you do it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

T'struck -- How is she feeling about the rest of her life, for example, being a mom? Does she have any hobbies or other things she invests her time in, like church or volunteer activities? If her unhappiness seems to be only in her marriage, then that's one thing, but if her unhappiness is pretty pervasive, then unfortunately, the only way her life will get better is if she gets help. Being raised by a depressed parent can be very detrimental to kids. If she won't get help to make her own life better, and if she won't get help to make her marriage better (because she's holding something against you), then she needs to know that being a depressed SAHM is going to F her kids up eventually. Maybe that will get through to her, I don't know.

I started hitting perimenopause this past year, and was noticing some pretty severe mood issues. I didn't connect the two, but at my last physical, I mentioned it to my doc. She is pretty on top of things, and put me on a low-dose progesterone cream. Within a month, it made a huge difference in my life. I was really skeptical, but it did help. (and I should mention that I am on AD meds and they weren't helping -- it was the progesterone that did the trick) I was also a little worried about taking it because I had very bad depression reactions to even low-dose BC pills years ago. But our bodies change, and we don't always react the same way to things as time goes on.

This is a book that might help you out, not with the fluid issue in your OP, but just with living with a depressed spouse:

Depression Fallout: The Impact of Depression on Couples and What You Can Do to Preserve the Bond: Anne Sheffield: 9780060009342: Amazon.com: Books

(free preview on Amazon)
Also, the earlier version:
Amazon.com: How You Can Survive When They're Depressed: Living and Coping with Depression Fallout (9780609804155): Anne Sheffield, Mike Wallace, Donald F. Klein: Books

There's a forum on the Depression Fallout site that also may help you.

It's tough to live with a depressed spouse. You need to take care of yourself, and though it's difficult, it's best to try to keep communication open.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Angel – it’s pretty pervasive. Her feelings on being a mom…kind of mixed, she loves our kids dearly, and would do anything for them, but then I hear tons of negative from her about being a mom, the kids, etc. She doesn’t really have any hobbies/interests that she pursues. She’ll do some volunteer work now and then at the kids’ schools. I think she’s aware of the cycle of depression and how it affects kids, b/c it runs through her family, including both parents.

Thanks for the book links. Looking into them now. 

And yes, I know that I need to take care of myself. I’m doing a much better job of that now, without feeling selfish/guilty about it.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Is she taking anything at all for her depression?


Beer? Not trying to be funny, but basically that's what she self-soothes with on a daily basis.


Jellybeans said:


> You said there is a lack of trust on both parts. Why? This could be having an adverse effect on your sxual life together.


I could write a book on it, but maybe the short answer is that we both know that the relationship/marriage is not good, and hasn't been good for years, so...it's hard to trust someone in that sitch.


Jellybeans said:


> What is your emotional connection right now? ...if she is feeling disrespected/unloved/unheard by you, then this will not make her want to have sx with you.


Not good, and I assume she feels disrespected/unloved/unheard. I've made mistakes, and I've acknowledged them. I've tried to do better, and make the marriage better. I don't know...she probably has tons of resentment piled on top of the other issues. I've mostly accepted that this is the way it is as long as I stay.


Jellybeans said:


> Was she always freaked out by fluids?


No. This started after kid #2.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

So she is drinking alcohol every day? Is she an alchoholic?

The lack of trust and resentment is a libido killer. 100%. Have you asked her what to do in order to restore some of her feelings for you? Like is there something she has told you point blank that makes her feel bad that you continue to do? 

It takes two, Thunder. You will both have to step up to the plate.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Jellybeans - yes, she drinks 2-3 beers daily, and sometimes adds in wine. Not enough to fall over, but she pretty much can't go a day without. I don't know if that makes her an alc.

Yes, I've asked her about her resentment, and restoring feelings. I'll hear about things I did up to 20 years ago. I'll also hear that if I paid attention, I wouldn't be asking her these questions. Basically...that I should already know. She also admits that while she knows I've made improvements, she can't let go of past resentment.

I fully understand that it takes two, and I believe that I've put in good effort towards meeting her needs.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> Jellybeans - yes, she drinks 2-3 beers daily, and sometimes adds in wine. Not enough to fall over, but she pretty much can't go a day without. I don't know if that makes her an alc.


That sounds like substance dependence to me. If she needs to do it every day. 



thunderstruck said:


> Yes, I've asked her about her resentment, and restoring feelings. I'll hear about things I did up to 20 years ago.


Tell her 20 years ago isn't today. Does she want to move forward or stay stuck in the past? Because rehashing the old isn't going to help with the present. 




thunderstruck said:


> I'll also hear that if I paid attention, I wouldn't be asking her these questions.


Unproductive.



thunderstruck said:


> Basically...that I should already know. She also admits that while she knows I've made improvements, she can't let go of past resentment.


Ok. So tell her if she cannot let go of past resentments, then where does that leave you two? Because it's not fair for her to punish you/your marriage in the present because of her own issues of not letting go of the past. That is her thing to deal with. Not yours. 

Sounds like she has a lot of excuses. 

You guys really need to sit down and get to the bottom of this. Her lack of desire for you/you lack of feeling heard/the resentments you both have that are brewing (and have been in place) are not going to get you guys anywhere.

Make a commitment to eachother to strive for a better relationship. 

It does take two to tango.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Alcohol is a depressant. I had to give up drinking to fix mine. It only makes everything worse.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Alcohol is a depressant. It only makes everything worse.


She is fully aware of that. 

Sorry if I sound like I think I have all the answers. I know I don't. I've tried nearly everything over the years, so I know what probably won't work.


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## Readytogo (Jul 11, 2012)

Sounds like you are on the right track. If there are issues with each other, drinking will pull her away further. My mother did that for years. Started during menopause. It's hard to connect sexually if there are other issues. Fluids are the excuse.

Hope she can get help and realize it. She probably won't take your suggestions lightly. Professional help is a better option.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

I understand your frustration, T'struck. I guess it will eventually come down to you -- how long are you willing to live in this life with her? You can't force her to do anything: marriage or individual counseling, seeking med help for either depression or hormonal issues, or to stop or cut back on her drinking. Those are all up to her, and so far she isn't motivated to anything about any of it. Some people (like myself, for example) have depression, but reach a point where they just can't stand it another minute and seek help, others will just keep spiraling downward. Sounds like she hasn't reached her point where she's so miserable that she wants to change.

So, you might have to do that for you. Are you in any kind of counseling? Living with a depressed spouse is difficult (my ex is on disability for depression, among other things, so I know) and I already see you know you've got some issues with co-dependence. Maybe even looking for a local Al-Anon group would help and give you other people to talk to who are in a similar situation. 

The negativity is not good for your kids or you. You owe it to them to give them the best possible start in life -- with or without her help. Issues in our families while we're growing up tend to find their ways into our lives and relationships as adults, too. They also learn by watching us as parents. 

It's tough to get to this point, but you might have to start weighing pros and cons of continuing to live like this.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

angel - I've been at the "weighing pros and cons" thing for a while now. Up to now, the pros have outweighed the cons...mostly b/c I have two kids at home.

I went to individual MC last year for a few months. It helped a bit. I understand about the negativity not being good for my kids. I grew up in a horrible household, and I was glad as a kid when my parents split. My sitch doesn't seem as clearcut as my parents' was, or maybe I'm just fooling myself.

Thanks again for your thoughts.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Depression can be serious and you say she is self diagnosed and doesn't want to be medicated. News Flash- she is already medicating with alcohol!

You need to tell her she needs to set up an appointment and deal with this.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

bunny23 said:


> You need to tell her she needs to set up an appointment and deal with this.


I've told her. She refuses, and I can't really force an adult to do anything...even if they aren't acting like one.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> Jellybeans - yes, she drinks 2-3 beers daily, and sometimes adds in wine. Not enough to fall over, but she pretty much can't go a day without. I don't know if that makes her an alc.
> 
> Yes, I've asked her about her resentment, and restoring feelings. I'll hear about things I did up to 20 years ago. I'll also hear that if I paid attention, I wouldn't be asking her these questions. Basically...that I should already know. She also admits that while she knows I've made improvements, she can't let go of past resentment.
> 
> I fully understand that it takes two, and I believe that I've put in good effort towards meeting her needs.



Yeah thunder, if she can't go a day without it thats text book dependence.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Last night was pretty bad. We start, and I can tell right away that it's not going to go well. She turns her face to a side, pushes my hand away when I try to touch her, and there is no affection going on. I put up with this for a few mins, and considered just going ahead and getting mine. Then I decided that this was BS, so I calmly told her, "I can't accept this, and I'm going to stop now." She yelled back, "No!" As I walked away, she yelled out some choice words. I blocked it out, didn't respond and just walked out. She found me a few mins later, listed some excuses and then went on a tirade. I heard her out for a few mins, told her I had nothing more to say and picked up a book. She went to bed.

This morn she came over, hugged me and apologized "for everything." She again listed her reasons for her actions. I listened and told her that I was truly sorry that she's going through a rough time and that maybe we should just take a break from s*x for a while. She didn't like that idea, and started listing her reasons again. She also threw in another apology for "everything." I asked her what exactly "everything" meant. No good answer. 

I don't know. At this point, I think I'll just back off for a weeks or a month. I'm HD, and I'm still physically attracted to her, but my desire for her is dropping to zero.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

thunderstruck said:


> I'm HD, and I'm still physically attracted to her, but my desire for her is dropping to zero.


Sorry about your tough evening...

Sometimes it takes a tough wake-up call for people to see the issue.

Tell her that you are still attracted to her, that you love and desire her.

If she feels the same, what are her issues? 

Would she be okay if you get sex somewhere else?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> Would she be okay if you get sx somewhere else?


She's actually told me a few times, when angry, to get it from someone else. But, no, she always backs off from that. For now, she needs the marriage. I don't know about "wants" but she def needs it, so no way she'd be okay with me getting a FB. 

I'm pretty sure I couldn't live that way, even if she was okay with it. If it comes to that, I'll walk.


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

It took my husband actually attempting to strike me while drunk before he decided to make a change. One of the things he'd always sworn to me was he would never ever ever hit me, and when I had video evidence that he had tried...well, that was his wake-up.

Your W may need some similar event to happen. Because you're right, she's not going to change unless she wants to. 

I think she maybe enjoys the "control"? When you're begging her and trying to get that physical connection, she can say yes or no; when you choose to stop initiating (like you did last night) all her control is gone. She can't do anything if you choose not to play the game. Regardless, it does sound like she could use someone to speak to.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

thunderstruck said:


> I've told her. She refuses, and I can't really force an adult to do anything...even if they aren't acting like one.


No, you can't, but you can list some consequences if she doesn't, up to and including divorce. You do have to mean it, though.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Agreed with Married but Happy.

You have done well so far it seems and it sounds like you are willing to go to counseling or do whatever it takes to regain the intimacy - emotionally and sexually. She knows she is suffering and that she is in a rut - everything revolves around kids, even volunteering and she's unhappy but unwilling to address it.

The only way she's going to be willing is if her life is going to turn upside down.

I'm not a fan of ultimatums, but I think you are at that point and the relationship dynamics can't be good for the kids. I suggest you get a sitter and find a private place in public where she won't scream, walk away, etc. A tall booth in the corner of a restaurant, etc. and calmly, quietly tell her you are very concerned, you can tell she's not happy but she doesn't seem to want to do anything about it. You can't continue like this and it's not good for the kids and she either needs to see her doctor and agree to MC or you will be leaving (or ask her to leave - whatever is best for the kids).


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> She's actually told me a few times, when angry, to get it from someone else. But, no, she always backs off from that. For now, she needs the marriage. I don't know about "wants" but she def needs it, *so no way she'd be okay with me getting a FB. *


WTF does that mean? Why can't you have a FB???


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> WTF does that mean? Why can't you have a FB???


Fwb


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh oh oh. I thought he meant a Facebook.

But now that makes more sense.

Yeah honestly your wife is being unfair, IMO. She wants "needs" the marriage but doesn't even wan to have sex with you. It doesn't sound like she is making an effort at all.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

thunderstruck said:


> She's actually told me a few times, when angry, to get it from someone else. But, no, she always backs off from that. For now, she needs the marriage. I don't know about "wants" but she def needs it, so no way she'd be okay with me getting a FB.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I couldn't live that way, even if she was okay with it. If it comes to that, I'll walk.


Next time she says this, get up take a shower and dress up nice then walk out the door. Go somewhere and stay gone for the night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Thound said:


> Next time she says this, get up take a shower and dress up nice then walk out the door. Go somewhere and stay gone for the night.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've pretty much shut down those comments from her by calling her bluff...basically along the lines of what you wrote. It never gets past the point of me agreeing - "Sounds good. I'll do that." She quickly backtracks from there.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You will both have to try something different because if not, the status quo will continue, Thunder.

Definition of insanity and all that.


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