# For the men who don't feel love through sex



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Are there any of you on here? I read all the time about what sex is supposed to mean to men, how it's love to them, bonding. But what about the men who don't really care either way? Not low testosterone, not out of love, not unattracted.... just view sex as a way to get off.

My main struggle is not that I want sex. If I really wanted it I could go, get him turned on, and do it but that's not what I want and wouldn't satisfy any need I had for it.

TBH- I've never been with a man who cared about sex in that way or wanted it to be a mutual thing or cared about if I'm enjoying things. The women I used to talk to would all complain about the same thing. It was just a normal thing. 
Even just the concept of anything other than that was foreign to me until I started reading other guys actually wanting to and enjoying making a woman O and wanting sex for more than just getting off. 
So I struggle a lot with "maybe he just really doesn't love me", "maybe it's just something wrong with me or my vagina..." Most of the time I'm ok but then I have really bad moments like now when I go off in a tailspin.

So for the guys who sex is just sex- do you really feel that way even if you truly love them and nothing is wrong with them, nothing is preventing you from wanting them, you'll have sex if it's an option but you have no deep need or feel love through it?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Are there any of you on here? I read all the time about what sex is supposed to mean to men, how it's love to them, bonding. But what about the men who don't really care either way? Not low testosterone, not out of love, not unattracted.... just view sex as a way to get off.
> 
> My main struggle is not that I want sex. If I really wanted it I could go, get him turned on, and do it but that's not what I want and wouldn't satisfy any need I had for it.
> 
> ...


Anytime I ever felt that way was because there was no emotional release. I think it is conditional, not characteristic of an individual.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

SGC I think there are two kinds of men.

The kind that only feels love though sex and the kind that only wants the excitement of the chase and release. Sometimes depending on the situation and circumstances they can be both.

For married men like me for example, there were times that the emotional bond was so strong intimacy (not sex) was the craving. The sex was just part the vehicle to deliver the intimacy.
It served to strengthen the bond emotionally.

If however the relationship was not so strong emotionally then the chase and release was the goal. Over the course of my 37 year M as we got older it became more for love than anything

That doesn’t mean from time to time we just want to give each other a Jolly Good Rogering. (That’s for you @MattMatt )
55


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

just got it 55 said:


> SGC I think there are two kinds of men.
> 
> The kind that only feels love though sex and the kind that only wants the excitement of the chase and release. Sometimes depending on the situation and circumstances they can be both.
> 
> ...


Thank you. 

Other suitable terms are "Getting plenty of ferret" or "being at it like a rat up a pump."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Are there any of you on here? I read all the time about what sex is supposed to mean to men, how it's love to them, bonding. But what about the men who don't really care either way? Not low testosterone, not out of love, not unattracted.... just view sex as a way to get off.
> 
> My main struggle is not that I want sex. If I really wanted it I could go, get him turned on, and do it but that's not what I want and wouldn't satisfy any need I had for it.
> 
> ...


I am not a man but this seriously stood out to me.

Be careful about the social groups you hang out with. They shape your idea of what you are worth and what is normal.

If you are around a bunch of women who will lower their need to have intimate relationships and sex just to be with a guy who may not be capable of being that intimate or who could be but because of the lack of boundaries and self-respect of the women are not being challenged to be in that sort of relationship. 

Find out what you want. Do you want to be in a relationship with men who feel the same about sex or not? If you truly want that, then do not be with a man unless he is on the same page as you. When you draw out your boundaries then you will filter out those who should not be inside of them regardless if those people are considered the average guy or not. Do you really want the "average guy" as defined by your girlfriends who seem to all be having the same problem? Or do you want a guy meant for you?

I say this because I have had many girlfriends over the years who pine for a guy who will be on the same page as them but will accept any old guy who is just ok due to them thinking "all guys are like this" and that they were looking for permission to put up boundaries.

You don't have to ask for permission to filter guys out. You just can live it.

The guys on this forum will give you a great insight into male psychology, culture and so on. But ask yourself what you want and go for it. Don't ask the guys here for permission to be with a guy who wants what you want. 

Truly, with the best intentions.

VirgenTecate

(Alright guys! Take over)


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'd give anything even to just get a chase at this point. There's just nothing. If sex is there and available, he'll do it. If not, he'll go the rest of his life without it. Doesn't matter one way or another. If I don't get him off he'll just do it himself. It's the same thing to him. It's just an orgasm. 

He knows I've been having a horrible couple days with it. I've been trying to lower my sex drive but it still comes and goes. This morning he rolls over and rubs my leg, says "I was just having a dream about you riding me" but that's about the most I'll ever get out of him. 
He's affectionate, cuddly, kissing all the time, groping me, but there is never any actual desire to have sex with me for anything other than just getting off so if sex is going to be more work than porn, he's rather just do it. 

I don't know, maybe I'm just having a bad day. One of those crying in the shower because he couldn't possibly, actually love me and I must be hideous and something wrong with me kind of days.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

VirgenTecate - If I'm ever on the market again, it will be my #1 dealbreaker. At the time though, I did just think it was how men were so it wasn't a big thing to me until it was harder to leave, kids, the house, family.... Had I known all this before I met him I would have passed and kept looking.


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## cmc (Aug 30, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> SGC I think there are two kinds of men.
> 
> The kind that only feels love though sex and the kind that only wants the excitement of the chase and release. Sometimes depending on the situation and circumstances they can be both.
> 
> ...


This is interesting because I feel more of an emotional bond if my husband pursues me. To me sex starts long before we actually make it to the bed. I feel like my husband shows his emotional bond with me during his pursuit. If sex is more just about physical pleasure than a deep emotional bond, I can accept that because he shows his emotional bond with me in other ways.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> VirgenTecate - If I'm ever on the market again, it will be my #1 dealbreaker. At the time though, I did just think it was how men were so it wasn't a big thing to me until it was harder to leave, kids, the house, family.... Had I known all this before I met him I would have passed and kept looking.


I absolutely understand and neither am I throwing shade at you.

The truth is, both men and women hear these "It's just how men/women are" in response to boundary and respect breaking behavior. You heard it your whole life. Why would you not believe it? You probably did not hear as much about setting boundaries despite "the norm".

It is a SKILL we must learn to set boundaries in a respectful way to ourselves and others. It is one we learn over our whole life time.

The good news is that you can still enforce boundaries in your relationship and develop that skill. Start expressing your need to your husband that sex needs to not just fulfill his need but your need as well. Make it clear and respectful. If he will not listen to you or try to accommodate, you cannot force him but you do not have to have sex with him or you can cut it down. This is not to punish or control him, but it is a refusal to allow sex to be for only one person. You can only ever control yourself. 

You can explain to him the benefits of date nights and spending around 15 hours of quality time together (no tv, no cell phones) of activities you both enjoy. That will take away any resentment (which you may have built up due to the uneven meeting of needs, or he has built up due to not being held to boundaries and thinking he deserves) and promote understanding. If he refuses, you cannot control him but you can make it known that you will continue to enjoy your life and pursue your interests. Its called the 180. It is not meant to break your relationship, but show him that you are taking responsibility for your life and that if he wants to be a part of your life he has to be responsible to you as well. It has been written about much on here.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

Also, reading over your thread again.

He sounds like a great guy. He might not even be aware of your needs.

Sit him down, have a conversation with him. He may be more responsive to you than you even know if you keep it calm and respectful. We all need those conversations. My fiance sat me down last night on my rude behavior. I wasn't aware of it and how much it affected him.

If he wants to avoid the conversation, let him know this isn't going away and it is starting to affect you and his relationship.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

cmc said:


> This is interesting because I feel more of an emotional bond if my husband pursues me. To me sex starts long before we actually make it to the bed. I feel like my husband shows his emotional bond with me during his pursuit. If sex is more just about physical pleasure than a deep emotional bond, I can accept that because he shows his emotional bond with me in other ways.


Let me ask you another question. 

Are there any previous experiences that taught you that sex is just about physical pleasure for the guy? Have most of your experiences been, "Let's just get it over with?" Or "I have to do this to pleasure the guy". Did you ever feel like you were not allowed to ask for what you would like physically in sex and outside? 

He might be clueless and just going away at it thinking it is great for you and that you feel just as connected. You might be laying there thinking "Great, now just the physical part". 

Try communicating to your husband what YOU would enjoy so it is not just getting it over with. If you felt that he was listening to you and trying to please you then you might feel the affection that he has for you. Maybe have more foreplay so the separation between the pursuit and sex is not such a big disconnect. Include affectionate sayings and caressing during sex.

Sex is not just physical pleasure. It is for some people sometimes. But many people, especially in serious relationships, it is also for love. Marriage is the binding of two people's entire lives. Body, mind and soul. Who wouldn't want to feel LOVE during the most physically intimate act you can do? 

Maybe your husband already feels that love during sex and what you are doing is enough. It isn't for you. You also deserve to have your needs met. Explain it to him and come up with solutions to make sex more enjoyable and fit your needs. It won't happen the first or second time. It is a new relationship to sex you will be working on.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I've told him in every way I could think of but I understand that it's confusing to him. 

I want him to WANT to have sex with me and not just sex but good sex. Willing isn't enough, [email protected] initiations isn't enough. I want him to pursue me, I want him to want to get me off for more than just 'he should' or I'll be cranky if he doesn't. 

When I discuss it, he'll say "well let's go do it now then, I'm always up for it, I do want you" 

He's told me that is preference would be if he could be more dominate, just basically throw me down wherever or flip me over and do it, half strip me down in the kitchen, etc. If not that, he likes being lazy, getting bjs and me on top. Nothing in his want list has anything to do with making it mutual or fun for both of us or needing sex for some kind of bonding/love feeling. It's all just a means to get off. If it's going to be too much work, he'll take it or leave it. No big deal. 

Most of the time I've been ok with giving up sex but I have some bad moments too, mostly just self-esteem stuff I think. It doesn't help when I read through threads of how much other men want their wives, if my drive dropped to 0, I doubt he would notice.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think there are two issues. One, as VirginTecate said, people cluster with similar other people in social groups. It may seem that "everyone" is like this when you just happen to be in a social group like that.

Age may be an issue as well. I think young men typically have higher and, well less controlled sex drives. They want SEX so much that they can't really take time to enjoy intimacy.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> *I want him to WANT to have sex with me and not just sex but good sex.*


That is simply an unrealistic expectation and you are setting yourself up as a guaranteed failure. Ask yourself why would you do this?

This is like a college student that expects to graduate at the top of the class and have employers demanding him/her, not only for a job, but for a the best jobs available. Then as this student barely manages to keep things above average, graduates, and finds that employers are not banging the door down to award a job, of course he/she will cry in the shower and feel like a horrible failure. Meanwhile he/she happens to be the first person in the family to ever graduate college with a degree. 

Badsanta


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

For me, sometimes it's both. The vast majority of the time sex is about that emotional bond. To me, sex is as important as I've heard women discuss being hugged or cuddled and as such most of the time sex gives me that emotional connection and likewise sexual rejection feels like I'm nothing more than a friend. That said, there is times when you are simply horny and really want to have sex just to have sex. We are human, sex is something we all crave at some point just for the release of it.


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## cmc (Aug 30, 2013)

VirgenTecate said:


> Let me ask you another question.
> 
> Are there any previous experiences that taught you that sex is just about physical pleasure for the guy? Have most of your experiences been, "Let's just get it over with?" Or "I have to do this to pleasure the guy". Did you ever feel like you were not allowed to ask for what you would like physically in sex and outside?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if your confusing me with the OP, but I do communicate with my husband what I want from sex and he communicates what he wants from me and we typically find some middle ground. I feel that if a man isn't as emotionally invested in the act of sex as I am, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I feel emotional bonds can be expressed outside of sex. It's also that I don't feel love during the physical part of sex but that love was expressed to me in his pursuit and his desire to have sex with me and I submit to his desire.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

cmc said:


> I'm not sure if your confusing me with the OP, but I do communicate with my husband what I want from sex and he communicates what he wants from me and we typically find some middle ground. I feel that if a man isn't as emotionally invested in the act of sex as I am, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I feel emotional bonds can be expressed outside of sex. It's also that I don't feel love during the physical part of sex but that love was expressed to me in his pursuit and his desire to have sex with me and I submit to his desire.


I might have confused you with the OP. That's what makes written communication hard. 

You can ignore what I say then because it was related to a different situation.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> TBH- I've never been with a man who cared about sex in that way or wanted it to be a mutual thing or cared about if I'm enjoying things.


This is one of the saddest things I've read on this forum.

I think now I could understand some of your posts that I've had trouble with before.

I hope some day you find a man like that. They do exist.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

badsanta said:


> That is simply an unrealistic expectation and you are setting yourself up as a guaranteed failure. Ask yourself why would you do this?
> 
> This is like a college student that expects to graduate at the top of the class and have employers demanding him/her, not only for a job, but for a the best jobs available. Then as this student barely manages to keep things above average, graduates, and finds that employers are not banging the door down to award a job, of course he/she will cry in the shower and feel like a horrible failure. Meanwhile he/she happens to be the first person in the family to ever graduate college with a degree.
> 
> Badsanta


In general, I think it is ok, as long as partners choose to communicate with one another. Too often, communication is one-sided.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

I think some people get a bit carried away with the "sex for men is about bonding with their wives". It is, but I don't think that's the primary driver for most men.

Sex does increase the bond with my wife. Mostly, though, I enjoy sex because it's fun. When I'm in a good relationship, it's far better because of the emotional connection. It bonds me to my wife mostly because it reassures me that she desires me and cares about my happiness. Sharing experiences increases bonding.

So, a lot of emotional bonding occurs, but that's not the main reason I want it. 

It would never occur to me to not do my best to please my partner (even if it was an emotion-free ONS), making it as good as I can for her is part of the fun. I find it hard to believe that any decent man could only have the goal of "getting off".


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

badsanta said:


> That is simply an unrealistic expectation and you are setting yourself up as a guaranteed failure. Ask yourself why would you do this?


Interesting, I'll have to think about it. 

I know logically that it is impossible to happen with him and for the most part I've come to terms with just not having sex. But ya, there's a part of me too that hopes someday something will click in him and he'll suddenly decide that he needs and wants sex enough and that is just setting me up to be hurt about it over and over again.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> It would never occur to me to not do my best to please my partner (even if it was an emotion-free ONS), making it as good as I can for her is part of the fun. I find it hard to believe that any decent man could only have the goal of "getting off".


We had enough conversations about it to get to the point where he doesn't think "my orgasm is my responsibility" and would try every time but that's not his preference. He'd rather get a 5 minute BJ and go about his day or just be able to do it without the big production of foreplay, getting me off. Just takes too long when porn is quicker and just as good so if I want to, he'll do it. If he can get it fairly easily when he wants it, he'll do it. But if I don't ask or don't give in to his half @ssed initiations, he doesn't care. He won't try any harder or chase me, pursue me, for it. We can go months, it doesn't bother him.

I feel like if he had more need, or something, whatever the guys around here have... that base desire to have sex with and connect sexually with their wives, he would be doing more to get it. 

He does want to and like to cuddle, kiss, touch, spend time with me. His needs are met, we discuss it often. He swears he is happy, even teared up a bit talking about how happy he was with me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Relationship Teacher said:


> In general, *I think it is ok*, as long as partners choose to communicate with one another. Too often, communication is one-sided.


OK @Relationship Teacher I really want you to WANT ME to post more, and not just want any posts, but I want for you to want me to make outstanding posts between the two of us. 

Now, how is it that I measure "your want" for me to do this and to know I am being successful at it or not. I will quantify this the following way:

• immediate reply (within seconds) as this will give me instant gratification and make me feel accepted.

• Perhaps a few private messages telling me how great I am and encouraging me to be more adventurous with my posts.

Sincerely, 
Badsanta

PS: Perhaps now you can see a little better why this type of behavior is NOT OK, and why it would be setting oneself up for failure. One can not measure his/her happiness based on the desire of others for the same happiness. This is essentially like a child accomplishing something and then waiting to see how grown ups react so that they know how to feel about everything. As an adult we feel what we feel and expect others to not only respect us but to also pay attention to our feelings (morally, ethically and legally). But yet many adults think it is OK to disregard how others feel around us and replace those feelings with something more suitable for our own needs and wants. This type of scenario is only OK if you are a "customer" and want a "salesman" to alter their state of being in order to make sure that you buy something and that we can react pleasantly and confidently with the goods/services we just purchased. And then even in that scenario is it really OK?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

badsanta said:


> OK @Relationship Teacher
> 
> • immediate reply (within seconds) as this will give me instant gratification and make me feel accepted.
> 
> • Perhaps a few private messages telling me how great I am and encouraging me to be more adventurous with my posts.


No reply and no PM's from @Relationship Teacher! I am now a hideous failure. My posts must be terrible. I'm going to go get a shower and start crying.

Badsanta


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

badsanta said:


> OK @Relationship Teacher I really want you to WANT ME to post more, and not just want any posts, but I want for you to want me to make outstanding posts between the two of us.
> 
> Now, how is it that I measure "your want" for me to do this and to know I am being successful at it or not. I will quantify this the following way:
> 
> ...


I definitely see your point, I just see it as an issue of a degree of severity.

I want to be wanted by my partner, clients, etc. But I say this as if it were a passing thought, and with no emotion. I really think it is how it comes out and is communicated. By the same token, I communicate and listen in a manner that others can say anything to me. When I listen without judgement, it increases intimacy and removes emotions. People have learned that they have to beg to get what they want. Even though it only works at first. It doesn't work long term as you indicate.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

badsanta said:


> No reply and no PM's from @Relationship Teacher! I am now a hideous failure. My posts must be terrible. I'm going to go get a shower and start crying.
> 
> Badsanta


:smile2:


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Relationship Teacher said:


> :smile2:


Too little Too late!!!!! 

I will now proceed to go into one of my passive aggressive temper tantrums! Hope you are not late for work in the morning!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Interesting, I'll have to think about it.
> 
> I know logically that it is impossible to happen with him and for the most part I've come to terms with just not having sex. But ya, there's a part of me too that hopes someday something will click in him and he'll suddenly decide that he needs and wants sex enough and that is just setting me up to be hurt about it over and over again.


 @SlowlyGoingCrazy you'll notice that I actually got a fairly quick and thoughtful response from @Relationship Teacher by throwing somewhat of a playful tirade and exclaiming that it would NOT work. But you see it did, even though I completely discounted it as too little too late! 

Have you ever heard the saying that "the squeaky wheel gets the oil!" Would you try making your vagina start squeaking a lot (in a playful but yet authoritative way), and get back to us?

OMG, I've now come up with the title for yet another new book after I finish writing, "101 ways to easily fool your own penis into thinking you are really having sex" It will be my new masterpiece. I'll call it "The Squeaky Vagina Gets All the Love!" 

Thanks for being my inspiration!, 
Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

OliviaG said:


> SGC, does letting him dominate in the bedroom not appeal to you then? Have you tried it and not enjoyed it? Sounds like fun to me (assuming that you trust him not to hurt you, that is.)


We've tried it, it's fine, he doesn't hurt me and respects my limits but I need more slow build up and clitoral stimulation (which I can't have rough) 
When I say he wants to just throw me down and do me, it's just that, and PIV doesn't get me off. He'll use his hands a bit but for the most part it just doesn't feel very good, especially with no foreplay.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
That is so sad, and so different from the way I feel. Sure an occasional quicky would be fun - bit only as a very occasional thing - fun for its novelty.

I want sex to take time, and I really want my wife to enjoy it. If nothing else my ego couldn't stand feeling like I wasn't making her happy in bed.

Sex normally is a couple of hours and ends up with us dozing next to each other curled up in bed. I've never said no to anything I was physically capable of doing for her. 




SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> We had enough conversations about it to get to the point where he doesn't think "my orgasm is my responsibility" and would try every time but that's not his preference. He'd rather get a 5 minute BJ and go about his day or just be able to do it without the big production of foreplay, getting me off. Just takes too long when porn is quicker and just as good so if I want to, he'll do it. If he can get it fairly easily when he wants it, he'll do it. But if I don't ask or don't give in to his half @ssed initiations, he doesn't care. He won't try any harder or chase me, pursue me, for it. We can go months, it doesn't bother him.
> 
> I feel like if he had more need, or something, whatever the guys around here have... that base desire to have sex with and connect sexually with their wives, he would be doing more to get it.
> 
> He does want to and like to cuddle, kiss, touch, spend time with me. His needs are met, we discuss it often. He swears he is happy, even teared up a bit talking about how happy he was with me.


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## CarlaRose (Jul 6, 2014)

I think your problem is, as you say, you simply didn't know. I don't know where he numbered in your line of lovers, but it sounds like he must have been your first or maybe second one. For all I know, he was your 5th or 10th and all the previous ones were much the same, so you married him and began a family not knowing there are men who make love and not just screw.

I met men like your husband, but they didn't get much time or consideration from me. That may be because I got lucky with my third lover. My husband was the second, but we only lasted two years, and our sex life was one of the reasons although I never told him that part. He tried, but he didn't know what he was doing because I was his first. We were both too inexperienced to know what we were doing or that it could be better for me. Alas, that's probably a lot of peoples' story because I do believe that if he had ever been taught or if I knew how or what to teach him, that he would have been a much, much better lover than he was, and I would not have felt so unfulfilled.

After my marriage, I met up with an old flame and was blown away at how good a lover he was, how attentive he was, and anxious to please me. Well, my husband had been attentive and anxious too, but what really blew me away about this guy was that he knew how to please me. He had been taught and he had also read and learned for himself. He was a year younger than my husband but obviously much more experienced.

I had many more boyfriends before meeting my second and current husband, most of whom were awful lovers. Several had no interest in pleasing a woman, and there was one who at 50 years old seriously had zero clue that women orgasm too. I mean, he was so bad that being with him WOULD have made me feel dirty, used, worthless, and unloved if I were so inclined to feel that way. But, I'm not inclined because I knew it was HIM and not ME who was the problem. It was insane to me that he was so horrible at love making and had spent his entire life either NEVER being taught by anyone or never bothering to learn. But he was also chauvinistic, misogynistic, and narcissistic. He thought women were on this earth solely to please HIM, to let him do his business and make it exciting for him. Because of his low opinion of women, he had no interest in making any effort to please me. I hated his demands, like "Don't cut your hair anymore." I had known him all my life, and we got together when I was 32, so he knew how long my hair was. I had cut it off 3 years before we got together, and he expressed his disdain even then. So when we got together, he thought he could command and boss me around. It never once occurred to him to respectfully request that he would like me to let my hair grow back, much less ask me. I was so sick of him and had absolutely zero desire to please him that I cut off the 3 inches I had already let it grow out. It was time for my usual haircut, so I kept my appointment with his scissors and bathroom mirror. 

There was another guy who actually stated to me one day, "I don't go down but if I did, I know I would drive a woman crazy." I couldn't believe that this guy - who REQUESTS oral sex, mind you - was telling me how sure he was that he could pleasure a woman out of her mind but that he simply refused to do it. Yeah well, that one didn't last long either.

There were guys who readily admitted they enjoy going down on a woman and pleasing her that way. There were guys who wouldn't climax until they made sure I did. I remember early in our relationship before we married, my husband and I were in doggy style position when the air conditioning suddenly kicked on. It was loud, and he began to lose his erection. He was behind me, so I turned to him and gently asked "Why am I losing you?" and his answer was "Because I can't hear you." That's how much my pleasure meant to him, and no I don't scream and holler and carry on like some silly porn star.

You didn't tell us anything else about your husband, so I have no idea what his assessment might be, but suffice it to say he would fall into one of four categories:

1. Guys who enjoy pleasing women and know how

2. Guys who might be pleasing and might like it but don't know how to please women because they were never taught

3. Guys who are clueless and have no idea that women need or can be pleased so you can't know if they would try or if they would enjoy it or not

4. Guys who don't give a darn

Only you can determine where in those categories to place your husband. Sometimes, men who view pornography buy into the selfishness and objectifying women that porn projects, so they get the wrong idea about sex and categories 3 and 4 are the result.

You take it personally, but it's not personal. It's not about whether you are worthy, it's not about whether he loves you or not. It has nothing to do with you at all. You just hooked up with and married the wrong guy. Or, your guy was never taught, and you are just as guilty for not teaching him. Maybe you were and are still like I was (and many other women too) when I was very young and don't know what it takes to be pleasured due to your own inexperience, so you don't know how to teach him. Either way, you have to STOP taking it personally and if you never tried to teach him, then you also have to STOP blaming him. If you don't know either, then perhaps the two of you can learn together so you don't have to spend any more of your marriage so sexually frustrated. 

There are sex therapists. There is tantric sex you can look into learning together. There are books and websites. There's really no excuse these days for a couple to go through this because there are too many avenues for learning. Should you find out he has no interest in learning and no interest in pleasing you, then it's up to you to decide if you're going to make your marriage your life sentence or to get out so you can explore what could be in store for you.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He does want to and like to cuddle, kiss, touch, spend time with me. His needs are met, we discuss it often. He swears he is happy, even teared up a bit talking about how happy he was with me.


This sounds like a perfect foreplay opportunity to me, maybe teach him

I can imagine the setup, some favorite TV show of his is coming on so you've got at least a half hour on the couch with him coming up. You excuse yourself and slip in to something really comfortable and a little sexy with somewhat easy access. My wife has these super thin really stretchy somewhat see through sleeping shirts for instance in which her bra-less boobs could turn on a stone, plus maybe some loose sweatpants or more skin tight but stretchy yoga pants. Whatever works for you. A blanket to snuggle under together may be appropriate if there could be an interruption. 

So the show starts, might be a good idea to have the DVR recording at the same time in case he eventually gets distracted. You snuggle up and just enjoy his presence for 10 minutes or so. It is your job to get your head in the game and turn yourself on just a bit. 

You said he likes to cuddle and touch, so cuddle and touch. After a while guide his touch. After some more time guide some more. Depending on what your normal response is the smart girl might have pre-applied a bit of lube before hand . Depending on his finger skills you might or might not want to have a little egg type vibrator handy. 

At the appropriate time as you are hanging on his arm turn and whisper in his ear in your sexiest voice "baby, I need to inside me now!" 

Afterwards tell him how wonderful it was, tell him if he'd do that once, twice, whatever times a week he could rip your clothes off and have you for his 5 minute release whenever he wants. >


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I feel love through sex (but _not only_ through sex), when I love the person, or in a relationship that is leading to a love-based relationship. Otherwise, sex can be recreational fun and have nothing to do with love, yet still involve affection and liking.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

The orgasm thing was fought to death with him, he does get that part of it now and he'll do it every time, because I told him to. 

Really, I don't plan on having sex, at least not now. I've really given up on him wanting sex the way I need him to want it because even when he is able to give me the kind of sex I ask for, it's not what I need. 

When we discussed it yesterday and I explained how sex should be bonding for couples, he just rolled his eyes, said "sex is superficial" and said he bonds in other ways. Sex is something he could just take it or leave it. It just doesn't matter that much to him. If I say no, he'll go watch porn and it's no big deal. If I don't bring it up for a while, he'll forget about it altogether. 

That part is what hardest on me. Mostly when I read about how all guys needs sex and want sex and I end up feeling like there must be something wrong with me. I guess I just wish he was more like a typical guy in this area and if he had a higher need for sex he would have more chase in him, more motivation. 

Part of his problem is that he never had to chase a girl, they came to him. He's never had to try to get laid. He also prefers if she (me) initiates. 

But it's pretty much impossible to communicate it with him and I can't change his needs anyway. 

"I want you to want sex"
"I do want sex, let's go to the back, we'll do it right now"
"I want you to chase me for sex, for you, because you want it and not because I'm upset or I told you to"
"I want you to stop thinking so much"

He said he'd stop watching porn if it'll make me happy, he said he would initiate half the time if I did the other half. I had thought maybe if he stopped the porn and gave it a few months, maybe something would reset in him and he'd have enough build up of want that he'd be more chase-y. But he's not willing to try that. Basically he said if he stops porn than he expects me to both fill in for it whenever he wants and to initiate half the time.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't know if people like your husband really change, SGC. It might just be something you have to accept about him if you want to stay with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jld said:


> I don't know if people like your husband really change, SGC. It might just be something you have to accept about him if you want to stay with him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ya, I had been doing pretty good with accepting and then I had some bad days that just sent me on a tailspin. 

If I wanted sex I could just say the word and he'd do it. 
If I was ok with him using me for 5 minute quickies vs. using porn, he would go for that and probably never watch it.

But he's not willing to make every sexual event a mutual one (which he call the "big production") unless he's either using porn or quickies to fill the spaces when there's no time or energy for it.

Basically, if I want him to stop watching porn, I would need to make myself available for quick, one sided crap when he wants it, like mornings and the "big production" once or twice a week.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Wow, that is kinda disturbing. I feel for you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Ya, I had been doing pretty good with accepting and then I had some bad days that just sent me on a tailspin.
> 
> If I wanted sex I could just say the word and he'd do it.
> If I was ok with him using me for 5 minute quickies vs. using porn, he would go for that and probably never watch it.
> ...


He sounds pretty selfish in this way, SGC. And the fact that he has an alternative in porn does not give you leverage.

We don't have this issue. But we had one in another area that might apply. 

The first twelve years or so that we were together, Dug was a real procrastinator, at least by my (possibly high) standards. I would ask him to do something, usually mechanical or technical or something like that in nature, and it just seemed like it took forever for him to get around to doing it.

Then, around 9 years or so ago, I noticed a difference. He seemed to get moving on things a lot faster. Still not perfect, but much better.

I don't know exactly what changed. I would like to think all that nagging I did over the years helped.  

For sure, I did not hold back. He heard my frustration every time I felt it. And once he was ready to change, he did.

Not sure this is applicable to your situation. Yours sounds like a more inborn thing. But I would keep speaking up about it. Don't hold it in, even as you try to accept, at least for now, and maybe as long as you want to stay with him, that this is how he is. 

My thoughts, anyway.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jld said:


> He sounds pretty selfish in this way, SGC. And the fact that he has an alternative in porn does not give you leverage.


I agree, if he stopped the porn and let some want build up in him for a while, he might be more able to give me what I want. 

I don't think that spending 20 minutes whenever he wants a sexual release is a big deal, if he only wants to do that once or twice a week (which would be fine for me) then he should save up all his sexual energy for those times. 

Then they would be more needed, more for him.

Right now, because he can just go get off to porn, the "big productions" are for my benefit. He just wants to get off and make me happy. If I would be happy with a 5 minute quickie, so would he. 

Problem is he wants to get off at least once a day, usually mornings and then sometimes later in the day too, lunch or after work. So he'll just watch a porn because it's quicker than spending 20 minutes on me.

I think the most he went was 2 days without it before he was trying to get morning quickies from me and when I reject them, he has an excuse to just go watch porn.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I agree, if he stopped the porn and let some want build up in him for a while, he might be more able to give me what I want.
> 
> I don't think that spending 20 minutes whenever he wants a sexual release is a big deal, if he only wants to do that once or twice a week (which would be fine for me) then he should save up all his sexual energy for those times.
> 
> ...


You two subscribe to the Policy of Joint Agreement, right? How about telling him that you no longer agree to porn?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Men who normally go for the "masturbatus in vaginus" are typical lousy, perfunctory lovers. I had several clients whose husbands were in this category. Wives know they are in a bad situation when things are so boring, unfulfilling and leaving doubt about your femininity that you're will to pay for something you should be getting at home.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

badsanta said:


> That is simply an unrealistic expectation and you are setting yourself up as a guaranteed failure. Ask yourself why would you do this?
> 
> This is like a college student that expects to graduate at the top of the class and have employers demanding him/her, not only for a job, but for a the best jobs available. Then as this student barely manages to keep things above average, graduates, and finds that employers are not banging the door down to award a job, of course he/she will cry in the shower and feel like a horrible failure. Meanwhile he/she happens to be the first person in the family to ever graduate college with a degree.
> 
> Badsanta


Ouch! Really? It is too much to ask that your spouse wants to have good sex with you?

In my head, the more fitting analogy would be the college grad with a B or better average, spending weeks pounding the pavement looking for better work, but can't seem to get hired because someone else always seems to be the top candidate. 

Yes, of course you have to keep plugging away in the hopes that your luck will turn. But surely a good cry in the shower on occasion is also reasonable and possibly cathartic.

SGC, I agree with the others that he probably won't change. Personally, I would decide whether it is enough for you to just have him do what you tell him to, as in "the big production" will happen 2-3x a week, with or without dress rehearsal, no complaining.

And if he can't be bothered, then think about whether he is worth staying with.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

always_alone said:


> Ouch! Really? It is too much to ask that your spouse wants to have good sex with you?


This may not be the case from the original poster's question, but this is an example. What one person defines as "good sex" may be completely different from how his/her spouse defines "good sex." 

PERSON A: May define good sex as feeling emotionally close.
PERSON B: May define good sex as a very strong orgasm. 

PERSON B will likely try to force PERSON A to have a very strong orgasm and ask how it was after sex is over.

PERSON A will likely try to get PERSON B to calm down and just give them a close hug during intercourse and be somewhat confused as to what all the commotion with mandatory vibrators and oral sex is all about.

BOTH PEOPLE WANT GOOD SEX! However neither has learned how to respect what good sex might be to the other person. 

Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jld said:


> You two subscribe to the Policy of Joint Agreement, right? How about telling him that you no longer agree to porn?


Yes, but as we were negotiating it last night, his compromise would be give up porn but be allowed quickies which wouldn't actually solve my problem. I don't have much else to counter with really. 

The PoJA works well for most things, we talk, we compromise and we both give a little but end up happy. When we come across a situation like this, I really don't know how to resolve it.


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

I've heard the opposite. Sex is sex to men and love to women. 

Where are these men?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes, but as we were negotiating it last night, his compromise would be give up porn but be allowed quickies which wouldn't actually solve my problem. I don't have much else to counter with really.
> 
> The PoJA works well for most things, we talk, we compromise and we both give a little but end up happy. When we come across a situation like this, I really don't know how to resolve it.


Keep pushing for Win/Win or No Deal. Keep speaking up. 

I think it is the only way to avoid the build up of resentment.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I think your husband just sounds selfish and lazy. Does this manifest in other ways in your relationship? Does he do mediocre housework just to get it over with? Does he work hard to advance in his career, or is he content with just doing the bare minimum to keep his current job? Does he go out of his way to be helpful to his friends, or is it more about what they can do for him? Does he like to cook big gourmet meals, or does he prefer to just order take out a lot?

People who are selfish and lazy convince themselves that a goal is not worth the effort it takes to get there, especially if they perceive the returns for themselves are insufficient.

All I can think of for you is to make him value the goal more. What if you suggested making a deal that for every good lovemaking session for you, he's allowed two porn uses? But no other porn besides that?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'd give anything even to just get a chase at this point. There's just nothing. If sex is there and available, he'll do it. If not, he'll go the rest of his life without it. Doesn't matter one way or another. If I don't get him off he'll just do it himself. It's the same thing to him. It's just an orgasm.
> 
> He knows I've been having a horrible couple days with it. I've been trying to lower my sex drive but it still comes and goes. This morning he rolls over and rubs my leg, says "I was just having a dream about you riding me" but that's about the most I'll ever get out of him.
> He's affectionate, cuddly, kissing all the time, groping me, but there is never any actual desire to have sex with me for anything other than just getting off so if sex is going to be more work than porn, he's rather just do it.
> ...


It's sometimes difficult for a man to combine sex or lust with love. As a young man, it's all about lust and fulfilling that lust i.e. getting off. As you get older you love your wife more and more and it becomes difficult to "lust" after this women that you have lived with for so many years. You see your wife as a mother, as a caretaker, as a homemaker and you love her. The question is how do you "lust" after someone you respect and love so much?

I believe this was MY problem. I loved and love my wife but I want to WANT TO f$ck her like she is my forbidden mistress. THAT is my goal. THAT is the main difficulty for older married men, IMO.

I not only want to love my wife, I want to lust after her as if she is a piece of forbidden fruit that I am not allowed to have.

I think your husband loves you, but maybe he is having difficulty "f$cking" you.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

tpdallas said:


> I've heard the opposite. Sex is sex to men and love to women.
> 
> Where are these men?


This is what I grew up thinking too. H was not my first, or second... or third. Let's just call it double digits. I get emotionally involved and connected with sex. I can't just have one night stands or an open marriage. I need the connection.



jld said:


> Keep pushing for Win/Win or No Deal. Keep speaking up.
> 
> I think it is the only way to avoid the build up of resentment.


Ya, we did have a good talk last night. A few hours sitting on the floor. I just don't know what our win/win will be. He's have to give up a lot to get something he's not that motivated to do. There's not a lot of win in it for him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Ya, we did have a good talk last night. A few hours sitting on the floor. I just don't know what our win/win will be. He's have to give up a lot to get something he's not that motivated to do. There's not a lot of win in it for him.


He gets to keep you. 

I don't know how long you will be able to put up with this kind of selfishness without building resentment. And that will spill out in other areas.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> We had enough conversations about it to get to the point where he doesn't think "my orgasm is my responsibility" and would try every time but that's not his preference. He'd rather get a 5 minute BJ and go about his day or just be able to do it without the big production of foreplay, getting me off. Just takes too long when porn is quicker and just as good so if I want to, he'll do it. If he can get it fairly easily when he wants it, he'll do it. But if I don't ask or don't give in to his half @ssed initiations, he doesn't care. He won't try any harder or chase me, pursue me, for it. We can go months, it doesn't bother him.
> 
> I feel like if he had more need, or something, whatever the guys around here have... that base desire to have sex with and connect sexually with their wives, he would be doing more to get it.
> 
> He does want to and like to cuddle, kiss, touch, spend time with me. His needs are met, we discuss it often. He swears he is happy, even teared up a bit talking about how happy he was with me.


Well, I've always been a fairly LD guy.

I do my best to meet my wife's sexual needs because I love her and her happiness means a great deal to me.

I'll take all the 5 minute blowjobs I can get, as long as that doesn't prevent me from meeting my wife's needs.

It looks like you're saying that he just doesn't have a desire to meet your needs and, therefore, the way to solve it is for him to have a need himself so that your needs get met as a bonus.

No, the way to solve it is for him to try his best to meet your needs because meeting your needs is important to him. 

Apparently they aren't. 

So he's so happy with you. Have you pointed out that you're not happy with him? Has it occurred to him that if you aren't happy with him, he may not have the opportunity to be happy with you?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

He is always a little selfish and lazy, at home. At work he's a rock star and perfectionist.

He has said that it gets tricky going between being comfortable with me to sexual with me. He says he has lust and that he shows it by his always grabbing, groping, kissing me and that "any time I want it, all I gotta do is ask"

But if I don't, it's no problem. If he makes a small move to initiate and I don't respond, it's no problem. There's really no effort on his side to get sex because it really doesn't matter that much to him. 

He does want to stay with me and make me happy and _will _meet my needs in bed to make that happen but there's no point if he can't get to where he wants/needs it. If there's no big difference between me and porn, I don't want to be a part of that.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes, but as we were negotiating it last night, his compromise would be give up porn but be allowed quickies which wouldn't actually solve my problem. I don't have much else to counter with really.
> 
> The PoJA works well for most things, we talk, we compromise and we both give a little but end up happy. When we come across a situation like this, I really don't know how to resolve it.


Hmmm....

I originally thought that he just didn't care if you enjoyed sex as long as he enjoyed it.

But now, I'm starting to think that he *does* make sure that you enjoy sex when you have it.

Is the problem that you want him to *need* to have sex with you? You can't control how he feels. Even he can't control how he feels. You both have influence your actions, but not your emotions.

This seems like the equivalent of the posts from guys who want their wife to want to have the same physical desire for sex with them as they have for their wives. 

I don't think it works that way. People can't change their emotional needs. They can't change their conscious behavior.

Is "big production sex" once or twice a week enough for you? If you want more big productions and he's not willing then I think you've got a case.

It sounds like you want him to give up porn in the expectation that he'll look forward to the "big productions" when they occur?

Can he only have orgasms if they occur during a "big production"?

If I was horny, approached my wife and she didn't acknowledge or declined the offer to help deal with the situation, I might be inclined to handle the problem myself. If she'd said "how about after lunch", etc. I'd be inclined to wait. But I don't think I'd just wait for some unspecified future activity.

I would have a problem giving all control as to when I can have an orgasm to my wife.

Now, if he's handling it himself so often that he's not available to you, that's a problem.

I think the problem may be that you want him to "talk you into sex" in order to assuage your ego (which is pretty normal) and he's just not willing to do that. It's like I really wanted to see a movie and my wife didn't want to at the time but didn't want me to go without her. Absent a commitment to see it with me at some specific future time, I'd be inclined to just say "I'll go to the movie by myself". She might prefer that I only enjoy movies when I see them with her, but that's not the case. I would prefer going with her, but that doesn't mean that I don't also enjoy seeing movies my myself. I guess one could say that seeing the movie with me was really important to her so I should wait until whenever she is willing to join me. I'd do that a few times, but not on a regular basis. 

I'm not sure that this is the situation, but it might be.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

I agree with Buddy400. 

Something needs to change in this dynamic. You need to move a little as well him moving a lot. It is not a compromise to have all big productions and no quickies. 

And one of the a lot's with him I think needs to be loosing the porn because it is seriously interfering here. I'm not an anti-porn fanatic but it seems to be screwing him up in dealing with an actual women so it must go...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He does want to stay with me and make me happy and _will _meet my needs in bed to make that happen but there's no point if he can't get to where he wants/needs it. If there's no big difference between me and porn, I don't want to be a part of that.


I hear ya! My solution to a similar (not same) sitch was to just give up on worrying about being second to porn. I just ask for what I want, when I want it. 

I'm different than you, though, as I can give up on sex being about connecting with him. I'll just make it all about me and pretend he is someone else. Someone better and hotter, and who digs me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> *He is always a little selfish and lazy, at home.*
> 
> He does want to stay with me and make me happy and _will _meet my needs in bed to make that happen but there's no point if he can't get to where he wants/needs it. *If there's no big difference between me and porn, I don't want to be a part of that.*


Ahhh...

Porn = little selfish and lazy 
Sex = little selfless and challenging 

Try having this conversation with your husband. Ask him if he can learn to enjoy masturbating more using only his _imagination_ compared to masturbating exclusively to porn? 
*
Most important, give him something to drive his imagination wild!* Perhaps tell him that he can only gets to imagine what it feels like to be inside you. Give him a jar a coconut oil and write him a story of what you want him to imagine doing with it. 

Men "LOVE" to be teased. This cultivates our sexual energy. Having a wife that can confidently do this goes beyond our known sexual boundaries and does this when you finally embrace us:

Sex = OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!!!!!

Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

anonmd said:


> I agree with Buddy400.
> 
> Something needs to change in this dynamic. You need to move a little as well him moving a lot. It is not a compromise to have all big productions and no quickies.


I know this, but I'm just not willing to make a regular thing out of one sided sex. Once in a blue moon is ok but I am less upset and resentful about no sex than I would be with one-sided sex that's anything more than a rare occurrence. 

and with 

It sounds like you want him to give up porn in the expectation that he'll look forward to the "big productions" when they occur?

Yes, I want him to want mutual sex, bonding. Really it's like 20, 30 minutes and yes he does get off with it. Sometimes twice if I'm doing a Bj while he is working on me first. 

Porn, his easy ability to get girls who just want to jump him his whole life, me not speaking up 10 years ago, and his lack of an emotional need for sex, and slightly low testosterone (but not medication worthy).... all this stuff imprinted his desire IMO and I think if he gave it a chance and only had sexual gratification when it was a mutual thing, waited until he was wanting enough for the effort for himself, eventually he would associate the two together and be more able to do it. Maybe. I think it would be worth a shot anyway but last time he tried he could only go 2 days before he wanted to get off and was bugging me for a quickie.

When I reject it, he thinks he should have a free pass for porn then.
If he makes some kind of pathetic attempt to initiate (like rub my leg and ask if I want to get lucky) and I don't respond to it, he thinks he should have a free pass for porn. If porn wasn't there, if he had a stronger need for it, he might be willing to make more of an effort.

I don't really care at this point how much sex we have, all I care about is that he wants to be doing it. 
It's it's twice a week, fine. But I won't settle for him doing it "for me" anymore so unless that happens, we don't have any. It's been 2 months now, the longer we go the more awkward it is to start again so really I just have to learn to deal with not ever expecting sex from him again.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

badsanta said:


> Men "LOVE" to be teased. This cultivates our sexual energy. Having a wife that can confidently do this goes beyond our known sexual boundaries and does this when you finally embrace us:
> 
> Sex = OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!!!!!


Listening to SGC, it sounds like her husband thinks sex should be all about him, and what you are suggesting here seems to be about making it even more all about him.

Personally, I wonder how a woman in that sort of position can start making it about her, so that he gets she's important too, and not just in a perfunctory way. My solution was the best I could manage, but if there were a better way, I'd love to hear it.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I know this, but I'm just not willing to make a regular thing out of one sided sex. Once in a blue moon is ok but I am less upset and resentful about no sex than I would be with one-sided sex that's anything more than a rare occurrence.
> 
> and with
> 
> ...


One thing that currently works for me is no "orgasm" to porn.
I still watch porn whenever I want AND masturbate, but I save the orgasm for my wife.
In my opinion, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting the "big production" every time. Some things in life are only worth doing right or not at all. Sex is one of them. Yes, once in a blue moon we do have a quicky, but it's very rare. 

I don't think you're asking too much at all. Maybe if you wanted the "big production" every single day, it might be too much. I am 53 and can do the whole nine yards twice a week with no problem.
Actually, the porn HELPS me get in the mood because I don't cum while doing it. It makes me want my wife more.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think it would be worth a shot anyway but last time he tried *he could only go 2 days before he wanted to get off and was bugging me for a quickie.*
> 
> *When I reject it*, he thinks he should have a free pass for porn then.
> If he makes some kind of pathetic attempt to initiate (like rub my leg and ask if I want to get lucky) and I don't respond to it, he thinks he should have a free pass for porn. If porn wasn't there, if he had a stronger need for it, he might be willing to make more of an effort.


I have had long conversations with my wife on this topic. When I had problems with porn, she came to the conclusion that if I stopped watching it and masturbating so much that eventually I would just "want it less" and that my libido would align with hers and that we could then live happily with only having sex once or twice month. After giving up porn, I too would be anxious for release and she would reject me. I too thought this would be a free pass for porn.

So you want your husband to stop porn so that he will desire you more and make more of an effort to have meaningful sex with you, while at one time my wife wanted me to stop porn so that I could just learn to want it less and stop bothering her for sex. Which wife is correct? My wife or you? 

In my opinion neither of you are! 

In my case, my wife learned to tease me instead of rejecting me. Even if she does reject me, I now have enough confidence now to easily turn her rejections into teases. In return, she has learned that she really enjoys sex when she cultivates my sexual energy in ways that make me crazy for her. 

Now a days porn = meh compared to the visions that my wife puts of herself running through my mind. I'm serious!

Not long ago she hurt her ankle while hiking and was still limping for a week afterwards. I looked at her seriously one day and told her that I know why her ankle still hurt and that it may not ever get better, and she asked me why... I told her it is because she will never stop running like crazy through my mind all day!

Regards,
Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm willing to do whatever in our mutual event times. Anal, BJs, toys. I'm up for it. There's always teasing, complimenting, being open. He's not so much into anything all that weird, doesn't much like anal anyway, but I'm willing to make our mutual times fun and exciting and long as he puts the effort into my side too which needs it's own specific things.

But yes, they take more time than a quickie or porn and are more work for him and as long as he has no real emotional need for it and doesn't have a urgency (due to not getting off for a while and building up want) he's not going to want to make that effort every time IF he knows he can just go watch porn and get off and go about his day whenever he wants. He'll do it to make me happy, because he knows I want to and I get less grumpy and want to meet his needs more, he'll do it if I ask him to, but if he never got it ever again, he really wouldn't care much and that's just not sexy for me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

always_alone said:


> Listening to SGC, it sounds like her husband thinks sex should be all about him, and what you are suggesting here seems to be about making it even more all about him.
> 
> Personally, I wonder how a woman in that sort of position can start making it about her, so that he gets she's important too, and not just in a perfunctory way. My solution was the best I could manage, but if there were a better way, I'd love to hear it.


In my opinion it is about cultivating energy. Yes, this may require that she change her attitude towards him in ways that are more sexually inspiring as opposed to rejecting him.

Once he has reached a higher level of desire for her, and she learns to be confident and "in control" of that energy, I'm pretty sure she can have him do WHATEVER SHE WANTS. Even if that includes demanding that he try something new and adventurous to try and please her, without her even knowing what it will be!

My wife knows what she likes! That is for me to try something different, and then she let's me know if it was any good or not. So far I'm on a winning streak, but I probably just jinxed myself....

Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I think what it comes down to is that I am at the point where I can get him to do whatever I "want". If I ask him to try something, he'll do it. If I ask him for big production sex, he'll do it. 

But what I really want is for him to want it without me needing to want it first, and I want him to want it _more _than he'd want to just get off if I was ok with that. Which gets ridiculously confusing and he looks at me like I'm insane and we go around and around. 

and I know it's crazy and not likely to happen in my specific situation but that's still how I feel.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I've been kind of fascinated by this thread but it is so confusing. I'm really the kind of guy who needs emotion before sex, and emotional bonding is a big part of sex for me. Solo sex is empty. In theory, I should be a perfect match for SGC's needs but I know that we can barely talk online without feelings erupting. 

What I opened this reply to say is that the idea of reducing sex in order to increase desire is like soaking the firewood to help it burn brighter later. Conversely taking away the safety valve tends to lead to explosions. Usually in the wrong direction. 

But, I have no helpful ideas. I can't think of any way to make someone want what you want them to want. FWIW


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> if he never got it ever again, he really wouldn't care much and that's just not sexy for me.


My wife once told me if she never has sex again that she would simply not have a need for it anymore. I'll agree that statements like that are NOT sexy if he has actually made it a point to say that to you in specific terms. I used to go into a passive aggressive rage when she would tel me those things, which was likely even more unsexy. 

Now if she repeats that to me these days, I just smile and tell her, "don't worry, I can work with that! It is probably because I have you a little worn out from last time!" The dynamic of that situation has completely changed now. 

Confidence is sexy! If you need to be the one in the lead, you have to be confident!

Baddsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> But what I really want is for him to want it without me needing to want it first, and I want him to want it _more _than he'd want to just get off if I was ok with that. Which gets ridiculously confusing and he looks at me like I'm insane and we go around and around.
> 
> and I know it's crazy and not likely to happen in my specific situation but that's still how I feel.



...well now I understand how your husband feels. 

You may not fully appreciate that a male orgasm and female orgasm are NOT equal. From what my wife tells me, a female orgasm is like priming pump so to speak for sex to just start getting really good, for which she can have about seven or eight. For men an orgasm has been scientifically studied to have hormonal side effects that are potentially stronger than taking a valium. 

So in that sense porn/masturbation/orgasm = taking a valium
wife/sex/orgasm = taking a valium 

...long story short, once a man gets off you don't have anything to work with. *So be very confident about making him take his time to orgasm.* Once he starts wanting it, that is when things should just be getting started! 

Some women are over eager to please and think when their man is close, that they need to keep going. This is when you SLOW IT DOWN!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Mr.Nail- I am confusing myself at this point, to be fair I've had about 3 hours sleep last night so my thoughts are not coming out into words very well. 
H is a "don't sleep until everything is solved" kind of guy so we were up very, very late sitting on the floor going over and over the same crap. 
I don't think it's something we can really fix and I will just need to figure out how to control my own emotions about it and not let it drag me into a negative funk when it hits my self-esteem.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Some women are over eager to please and think when their man is close, that they need to keep going. This is when you *SLOW IT DOWN!*


OMG for some reason while writing this it made me think of that psychedelic time travel song from the recent Spongebob movie.

Squeeze Me (from The Spongebob Movie: Sponge Out Of Water)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acUqPKHG4JQ

Here we go now! Y-E-A-H! Squeeze me till I POP!










I'm going to play song on the bedroom stereo that next time I start harassing my wife!!!!!! > > >

Now that will take some confidence!!!!!!!

Badsanta


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## James7936 (Nov 21, 2015)

I use to always thinking about just pump and release and move on. Nowadays that's not even a challenge anymore nor is it growing as an individual. Being in a long term relationship with a woman that involves love and sex is a lot better and more challenging to push yourself each day for your significant to create greater response from them for love and sex. I believe sex and love begins early in the morning and end right before you go to sleep. I'm glad we have smartphones today, where I can start my woman's engine bright and early and maintain it by the time she gets home, she's ready to love me and she gets to have her multiple's O during night. And keep repeating it over and over again while increasing my dominance and her responsiveness to me and vice versa.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Like many HDs, you are doing absolutely everything reasonable and more, much more. 

In your case he isn't really LD, since he gets off to porn. I have no problem with porn IF it doesn't interfere with someone's sex life - but for him it does.

I do watch porn, but only because my wife isn't available. I've never turned her down for anything sexual that she has asked for or that I think she wanted.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'm willing to do whatever in our mutual event times. Anal, BJs, toys. I'm up for it. There's always teasing, complimenting, being open. He's not so much into anything all that weird, doesn't much like anal anyway, but I'm willing to make our mutual times fun and exciting and long as he puts the effort into my side too which needs it's own specific things.
> 
> But yes, they take more time than a quickie or porn and are more work for him and as long as he has no real emotional need for it and doesn't have a urgency (due to not getting off for a while and building up want) he's not going to want to make that effort every time IF he knows he can just go watch porn and get off and go about his day whenever he wants. He'll do it to make me happy, because he knows I want to and I get less grumpy and want to meet his needs more, he'll do it if I ask him to, but if he never got it ever again, he really wouldn't care much and that's just not sexy for me.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Since he seems interested in finding a solution, find a sex therapist in your area and see what they have in the way of suggestions. He may listen to an 'expert' in a way he doesn't listen to you.

Put simply, for what to tell a therapist - you want him to want you more than he wants porn and you want him to care about sex being a mutually pleasing event.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

technovelist said:


> This is one of the saddest things I've read on this forum.
> 
> I think now I could understand some of your posts that I've had trouble with before.
> 
> I hope some day you find a man like that. They do exist.


Yes we do. Not every guy is just interested in a quick hump and jump.



badsanta said:


> This may not be the case from the original poster's question, but this is an example. What one person defines as "good sex" may be completely different from how his/her spouse defines "good sex."
> 
> PERSON A: May define good sex as feeling emotionally close.
> PERSON B: May define good sex as a very strong orgasm.
> ...


Or perhaps neither understands how to give it. For someone who just wants to have sex, the ideal of giving a hug or starring intently into your partners eyes during sex might be as awkward as giving your grandma a kiss on the cheek every Christmas. You know its appreciated, you just don't know how to do it without feeling awkward and somewhat weirded out.

Same goes the other way, if your partner just wants to have good sex and you are craving a something more emotionally bonding, it may be near impossible to get to that level of ecstasy your partner is aiming for.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

kingsfan said:


> For someone who just wants to have sex, the ideal of giving a hug or starring intently into your partners eyes during sex might be as awkward as giving your grandma a kiss on the cheek every Christmas. You know its appreciated, you just don't know how to do it without feeling awkward and somewhat weirded out.


OMG, I once was watching a documentary on couples trying to resolve sexual issues. There was this married couple that both liked sex, but she would absolutely freak out if they caught her husband looking at them during intercourse. Most of the time the wife would be on top, turn her head away from her husband, close her eyes, and this was the ONLY way she could bring herself to orgasm. If she turned towards him and caught him looking at her breast or something like that, she would freak out and not be able to enjoy sex. The husband was this very masculine biker dude and would also freak out if he opened his eyes and caught her staring at him to make sure he kept his eyes closed or turned away.

I forget exactly what the cause of their problems were, but the whole notion of that situation reminds me of when I sneak up on our kittens and catch them doing something they know they are not allowed to do. Once they realize I am inches away staring at them and see me, they fly four feet into the air, their tails get all fluffy, and the bolt off so fast that they forget they are too big to fit under the couches anymore. 

Seems like she had issues with sexual disgust, shame of enjoying it, and low self esteem. 

Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Since he seems interested in finding a solution, find a sex therapist in your area and see what they have in the way of suggestions. He may listen to an 'expert' in a way he doesn't listen to you.
> 
> Put simply, for what to tell a therapist - you want him to want you more than he wants porn and you want him to care about sex being a mutually pleasing event.


He won't go to a therapist. 

He does get it and understand what I am saying. 

His side is that of course he wants me to O every time but that since it takes a while there should be nothing wrong with filling the spaces in with quickies, bjs or porn which take 5 minutes. 
It took me years before I was able to drill it in him that yes, my orgasm IS your responsibility. In his mind, since I couldn't O with PIV, that I should be doing what I needed to be doing to get off before/while/after PIV with him. 

For the most part this was better but what happened was that instead of turning every event into a mutual one, he substituted with porn when he wasn't in the mood for the whole "production" 

There was a time when I gave him a BJ every single morning. When I stopped those because I was giving too much and not getting in return, he just turned to porn for those times too. 

Sex just doesn't matter enough to him to make a whole lot of effort to get it. If it's too much work, he'll just watch porn.

I matter more to him so if I complain about it, he'll do it but that's not what I want. I want him to want sex with me enough to make the effort to get it. 
But he'll only ever care enough to do it for me, to save the marriage, and not because of himself.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He won't go to a therapist.
> 
> He does get it and understand what I am saying.
> 
> ...


I've refrained from saying this as it is slightly inappropriate, but may help add a little spice to help motivate him and teach him to be patient if done playfully.

Chastity devices for men are now readily available and inexpensive through Amazon. 

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Series-Chastity-Penis-Cage/dp/B008WEO0WK/

It is ironic these days, but the idea of a man staying chaste for his wife has become somewhat of a mainstream kink in the age of porn, instant gratification, and unlimited overstimulation. 

An idea would be that if he has been giving himself three or four orgasms by the time you have just one, turn the tables and make him give you three to four orgasms and then you will allow him out for one. It would be a fun game for a week or so every once in a great while to help him understand you better.

Cheers,
Badsanta


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'd think something like that would need him to have some pretty strong motivation to want things to change. He's fine with how they are except for the fact that I am unhappy about it and that's not enough for him to do anything all that drastic.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'd think something like that would need him to have some pretty strong motivation to want things to change. He's fine with how they are except for *the fact that I am unhappy about it* and that's not enough for him to do anything all that drastic.


I don't want to be a Debbie Downer or anything like that, but so far you are able to motivate your husband in two ways:

• complaining for something and getting a lukewarm response with minimal effort.
• inciting fear that the marriage needs to be saved. 

Have you ever tried positive encouragement by sharing your excitement or happiness with him? 

What is it that encourages him to be a rockstar at work? Groups of men often encourage each other through competition and various forms of playful fraternal hazing. 

Stop complaining for a while and use positive reinforcement. At the same time I would strongly encourage you to use primarily fear to motivate your husband, NOT a doom and gloom fear, but more of a finding a way to playfully haze him as a way to incite his competitive nature to emerge in the bedroom. 

If he wants a quicky, enthusiastically give him one. But tell him he only has 30 seconds to cum once inside and get a timer. If he can't, he will then have to do whatever you want him to do (sexually) before you allow him back inside. Just don't mention anything to him about the fact that you may have used desensitizing gel/lubrication to give him a brief hand job as foreplay right before proposing this challenge to him. 

> > >

Badsanta


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'd think something like that would need him to have some pretty strong motivation to want things to change. He's fine with how they are except for the fact that* I am unhappy about it and that's not enough for him to do anything* all that drastic.


THAT says a LOT about him and your relationship. If he's causing you unhappiness and he won't take any action to change that, what kind of husband is he?? DTMFA, especially if this attitude of his spills over into other venues.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I am unhappy about it and that's not enough for him to do anything all that drastic.


He will do something, just nothing drastic! 



Hopeful Cynic said:


> THAT says a LOT about him and your relationship. If he's causing you unhappiness and he won't take any action to change that, what kind of husband is he?? *DTMFA*, especially if this attitude of his spills over into other venues.


Seriously?



> *Dump That Mother F****r Already!*


Here is a decision chart to help one decide if they should DTMFA. According to the internet, @Hopeful Cynic appears to be giving the correct advice.










If it were me, I'd think you should not hold others responsible for making/keeping you happy. Seems a bit childish and immature. Now if you are an inherently happy person and someone comes along and makes you unhappy, then OK, DTMFA.

Badsanta


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

A BJ everyday.... I could just throat punch him right about now.........................


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

If I pushed it hard enough, really made a fuss and was seriously going to leave him about it, I'm sure he'd try more but I do not want to get sex that way. It's not worth it to me to get it that way. 

I put my foot down and said that he needed to reciprocate oral sex, so he did and I felt even worse afterwards. He didn't hate doing it, he said it was fine. I put my foot down and said he needed to do foreplay every time, so he did and I felt even worse afterwards.

I know he sounds like a selfish guy and in a lot of ways he is but he does love me. What I want from him is to have his OWN need for sex, not to do it for me. 

I do want him to try giving up the porn and giving it a bit until his want builds up (no quickies) some more but I can't nag him into things, I can't tell him what to do. I can only control myself and right now it's not always a deal breaker for me. Everything else is going pretty good and most of the time I am ok with no sex, My anti-Ds take my sex drive down a bit (from wanting it once a day to wanting it once or twice a week), it's just every now and then that I get into this funk of being upset and feeling ugly and unwanted. 

It is mostly my self-esteem that is what's being needed. In my mind, if I was pretty and sexy he'd want sex with me more often. Simple. 
He does everything he can to complement me, grabbing and touching me, I literally can't make a single meal without him coming in to grab my butt when I open the oven or pot cupboard.

And for the most part that's enough, every now and then though it turns into
"you're so sexy babe"
"Then why don't you ever want to F me?"
"I do want to F you, if you want to let's go do it right now"

Then we get into the whole mess of wanting me vs. he's fine with or without it.

Last time I was in this bad a funk, I put naked pics of myself (no face, no way to know who it was) on a website just to see if other people would want me. I posted them before I left for work, by the time I got there I had 300 messages from about 90% married men- 1 who worked with my H and I had spent a night chatting with his wife about a month before... 
Obviously this was stupid and I told H immediately and took them all down. But it did feel good before it felt creepy and we talked about how I don't need sex, I need to be _wanted _for sex.

Me telling him I want sex and him doing it isn't what I want. 

The self-esteem stuff isn't really something he can fix for me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The self-esteem stuff isn't really something he can fix for me.


You may find it helpful to set aside your own self esteem for a moment. When your husband is willing to do things for you to make you happy, he very well would be enthusiastic about it and sincerely enjoy it as long as he knows you appreciate it. So instead of feeling self conscious and allowing that to rob you of enjoying your marriage, focus on finding things to be thankful for.

A husband that is willing to do whatever you ask to help please you does not sound like that bad of a guy. 

On another topic, when I went through RCIA to become Catholic, I was surprised to learn that when we need something in our lives, god will NOT simply give it to us even though he is omniscient. We do have to ASK him in our prayers. You may want to find a moment, and reflect on the meaning of that.

Regards,
Badsanta


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy, 
I understand how you feel because that's exactly how I want my wife to be. I want her to "want" sex, not just do it as an obligation or to make me happy.
One way I have found to generate this "want" in my wife is to somehow lesson the priority of sex in my own mind. It's one of those things that my wife KNOWS that I want, I crave sex from her. This puts me and you at a disadvantage.

If we can somehow deprioritize sex, and REALLY mean it, that's where things will start to change.
The other thing that works with my wife is showing her that other women find me attractive and desirable. This can be a bit tricky and dangerous. Some may say unfair.

Let me know if you succeed because I would like to know how as well.

If the grass is always greener on the other side, we need to become that "other" grass without actually crossing the property line. I wish I knew an easy way for this to happen.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy, 
One thing I have found the does NOT work is talking about it, or complaining.
It's something that has to come naturally. You cannot make a person "want" or desire someone or something. The more you push, the more they push away.

I think if you develop self confidence in yourself and your inner sexiness, he may change.
Think about it, he KNOWS you want him so he is under ZERO pressure to want you back. He has all of you for free. Let him work for it. Play hard to get, not only physically but mentally.
Become more independent from him.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Are there any of you on here?


I used to feel a strong sense of love, especially the moments right after making love. A few months before I married, my wife once said that sex is sex and love is love. I didn't think about it much at the time, but as time has passed, I have experienced and accepted that she does not experience much emotion through sex. She is not emotional in general and has a low sex drive. Aside from that, she is easy to get along with.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Are there any of you on here??


I think many men are like this including me.
The difference is that I am NOT like this with my wife.
I could have sex with a million different women and not feel love through sex, but because I REALLY love my wife, I cannot just "get off" with her. It means so much more than that (with her).

Perhaps the partner who has the most "want" turns the other partners "want" into a duty. If we can lesson our "want" it might increase the others "want." I guess it is human nature to want what we don't or can't have. Also, once we get what we want, we tend to not want it anymore or at least not as much. 

I know, it's crazy


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

UMP said:


> I think many men are like this including me.
> The difference is that I am NOT like this with my wife.
> I could have sex with a million different women and not feel love through sex, but because I REALLY love my wife, I cannot just "get off" with her. It means so much more than that (with her).
> 
> ...................................


I am like this too (female) and totally get what you are saying. Sex is something I enjoy and it does not have to be associated with love but when it is then it is something very deep. 

I don't know SGC, seems like you have an exhausting situation, nothing of value to add except cheering you on from the sidelines and hoping you find a good balance with all of this.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I have a theory on this...I feel the more "*romantically sensitive*" the man (those who are very affectionate, giving)... I tend to feel these men are more in tuned Emotionally - they naturally care that their woman is happy, pleased...but also they crave that mutual bonding with their wives/ girlfriends... over those who just aren't romantically inclined... 

I speak this from my own experience ...I've only been with my husband..... from the very beginning...he's been the "slow hand with the easy touch".. that sensual lover who's always given me an orgasm...(and he cares sooooo much about this - but it's never been about ego.. it just makes him happy that I am happy!).... 

We had this conversation - taken from another thread here sorting out the "*physical*" vs "*emotional*" in sex.. I asked him how he'd break that down...he said ... 70% of sex for him is Emotional... and 30% was Physical.. I mean , sure he/ we love to get off , Don't get me wrong.. love our orgasms!..... but he's spoken of masturbating , how "hollow" it is in comparison...

He almost needs to feel my interest too.. my WANT to be there...or he'd turn over...he's never wanted me to feel it was "just about sex".. he's said this to me before... (those words)...

Just not the type who could wham bam a woman.... he'd be very sensitive to how she was feeling..... I think he's rather high on the bar in "emotional" .... compared to many men though.. 

Thing is... I don't think most women are attracted to men like this.. they go for the rough tough guys!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> We had this conversation - taken from another thread here sorting out the "*physical*" vs "*emotional*" in sex.. I asked him how he'd break that down...he said ... 70% of sex for him is Emotional... and 30% was Physical.. I mean , sure he/ we love to get off , Don't get me wrong.. love our orgasms!..... but he's spoken of masturbating , how "hollow" it is in comparison...


This is very true for me. Sometimes when it had been a while I'd be bouncing off the walls and think maybe I just need to 'crank one out' to get my mind straight.

It doesn't do anything for me. Maybe a few hours later at most I'd be bouncing off the walls again. For me anyway, I'm not craving the orgasm as much as I am craving the intimate touch of the woman I love. 

And your hand doesn't quell the feeling of disappointment you get from constant rejection. 

Anyone who doubts that sex has any emotional connection and thinks its purely about 'getting off' needs to ask themselves if that was true, why wouldn't we all just walk away from the complexities of relationships and head for the lotion aisle at Walmart?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Thing is... I don't think most women are attracted to men like this.. they go for the rough tough guys!


EXACTLY! Or, they may indeed be attracted at first but get bored with it in time. This is what I think my problem is with my wife. I think she gets complacent or bored in knowing that I DO want her, I DO crave sex with her, I DO care about her orgasms, etc. It's just too friggen easy for a person like this to get what she\he wants.

When I feel the complacency from my wife rearing it's ugly head, I back off emotionally and she comes back. I have to show her mind that I can live without her and she better get back with the program. It's difficult for me to do this because I think it's immature and unnecessary. However, it's the only way I have found to get my wife back "wanting" sex again.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

H is very much rough and tough, to a fault most of the time, and emotionally AND physically.

Whenever I back off of sex, H doesn't notice. I think the longest we went was 6+ months before I finally couldn't take it anymore and said something. This time I only made it 2 months before I cracked. 

But he has an outlet, he watches porn minimum once a day, sometimes 2,3 times. So want never builds up in him. 

I'm going to talk with him this weekend again about stopping the porn. Every single time we have the conversation he says he is going to but never actually does. I guess we'll see how serious he is about fixing things.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Whenever I back off of sex, H doesn't notice. I think the longest we went was 6+ months before I finally couldn't take it anymore and said something. This time I only made it 2 months before I cracked.


I am sorry. That is terrible for you to crave sex for 6 months without him wanting or initiating. 
Not saying you should do this, but what would happen if you just get up one night and say, "I'm going out" just leave and get back at 2:00am? 

Does he think you might leave him for good one day because of his lack of desire or is he CERTAIN you will never leave?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I suggest you insist he stop the porn and masturbation entirely and bring all his sexual energy to you. Very selfish of him to satisfy himself and leave you abandoned.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

UMP said:


> I am sorry. That is terrible for you to crave sex for 6 months without him wanting or initiating.
> Not saying you should do this, but what would happen if you just get up one night and say, "I'm going out" just leave and get back at 2:00am?
> 
> Does he think you might leave him for good one day because of his lack of desire or is he CERTAIN you will never leave?


Ok, I have tried this. Funny enough his Mom suggested it to me too (yes, she knows about it all). He saw right through it. Said "Have fun babe"

Ya, he knew I wasn't really going out and I only lasted a few hours before I got bored and went home (I went to Tim Hortons....)

If I am acting distant he does do a sweep of my phone/computer to see if there is cheating. 

I not willing to really go out to a bar, really be around men and act like I'm willing to have sex with them- I am too vulnerable to play with fire IMO, as horrible as that may be to admit. 

So all I'd have is tricks and I'm a very open person so he can check up whenever he wants

I don't think he really believes I will ever leave over it. That is an issue.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Ok, I have tried this. Funny enough his Mom suggested it to me too (yes, she knows about it all). He saw right through it. Said "Have fun babe"
> 
> Ya, he knew I wasn't really going out and I only lasted a few hours before I got bored and went home (I went to Tim Hortons....)
> 
> ...


Shiit! He is a tough nut to crack.
I think you need to go on a vacation. Seriously. Plan a trip with some friends and leave for a week. He NEEDS to know you're not his little emotional pawn he can manipulate however he wants.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

UMP said:


> Shiit! He is a tough nut to crack.
> I think you need to go on a vacation. Seriously. Plan a trip with some friends and leave for a week. He NEEDS to know you're not his little emotional pawn he can manipulate however he wants.


Well, TBH my friends, at least ones close enough to vacation with, consists of my Mom... that's about it. 

But I will work on being more detached, less available.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Well, TBH my friends, at least ones close enough to vacation with, consists of my Mom... that's about it.
> 
> But I will work on being more detached, less available.


Do you work or are you able to work?
Even part time would be helpful. Something fun where you are around energetic people, learning different things and expanding your horizons.

He needs to know that your world does not start and stop with him.

You know, I do not think that his position is necessarily wrong. However, he is ABUSING his power over you. That's taking it too far, IMO.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

You have to decide which terrifies you more: triggering conflict with your H or suffering through an unsatisfying sex life. You are not going to get the sex you want without triggering conflict and running the risk that the conflict will destabilize the relationship. If it were possible to get what you want sexually without triggering real "I might have to leave you over this" conflict then you would already be having the kind of sex you want. At this point, you either have to detach and then trigger conflict if / when he seeks to reconnect or accept that this is the sex you are going to get.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> You have to decide which terrifies you more: triggering conflict with your H or suffering through an unsatisfying sex life. You are not going to get the sex you want without triggering conflict and running the risk that the conflict will destabilize the relationship. If it were possible to get what you want sexually without triggering real "I might have to leave you over this" conflict then you would already be having the kind of sex you want. At this point, you either have to detach and then trigger conflict if / when he seeks to reconnect or accept that this is the sex you are going to get.


I believe you have to weather the large conflict first. Afterwards it's about maintenance. My big "storm" was when my wife left on vacation with my family and I went out dancing. I called my wife and told her what I did and I said it was wrong. However, it woke her up from her sexual slumber. She told herself, "if I don't give him what he wants, there are many women out there who will."

After weathering that, I now just maintain. If I get too close or predicable, I then have to back up for a day or two. Nothing dramatic. Maybe no touching or simply doing my own thing. It then resets itself.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

UMP said:


> Do you work or are you able to work?
> Even part time would be helpful. Something fun where you are around energetic people, learning different things and expanding your horizons.
> 
> He needs to know that your world does not start and stop with him.


I work full time, at the moment more than him because of weird hours on his part. My job is fine, I like it, will eventually lead to owning it at some point. 

In most ways I am much more independent than him. I do everything myself, I fix things, carry things. He is a lot more needy with acts of service. He can't even check his own bank account and I'm pretty sure still doesn't know how to set the oven. 
He has a lot more to lose than I do if we divorce. He does know this, he knows and has said many times that he would be absolutely scr*wed. 

And he does appreciate what I do, complements me often, gives me a lot of admiration (his biggest emotional need), he makes the efforts that he can. It's not all bad.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Holdingontoit said:


> You have to decide which terrifies you more: triggering conflict with your H or suffering through an unsatisfying sex life. You are not going to get the sex you want without triggering conflict and running the risk that the conflict will destabilize the relationship. If it were possible to get what you want sexually without triggering real "I might have to leave you over this" conflict then you would already be having the kind of sex you want. At this point, you either have to detach and then trigger conflict if / when he seeks to reconnect or accept that this is the sex you are going to get.


I don't think I shy away from conflict necessarily. If I'm upset, I let him know and we talk about it. We spent hours talking about it a couple nights ago. I don't hold it in anymore. It's hard because he will agree to it because I am upset and he doesn't want me upset but I don't want to nag a man into wanting sex with me. I'd rather not do it at all. 

He will have sex with me, how I want, whenever I ask or initiate it. 

But if I don't, he won't try all that hard to get it (a roll over and rub my leg, a stupid comment, etc) and then gives up quickly and may do a "I tried the other morning and you didn't seem into it" later on if I'm upset. 

If I don't give in to those and I don't bring it up myself, it's just not a big deal to him. 
I want it to be a big deal to him but I don't think that's really even possible.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I don't think I shy away from conflict necessarily. If I'm upset, I let him know and we talk about it. We spent hours talking about it a couple nights ago. I don't hold it in anymore. It's hard because he will agree to it because I am upset and he doesn't want me upset but I don't want to nag a man into wanting sex with me. I'd rather not do it at all.
> 
> He will have sex with me, how I want, whenever I ask or initiate it.
> 
> ...


DAMN, I wish I could be more like your husband. Does he have a 12 " penis or something? You work full time, cook and clean, are a porn star in bed and he could take it or leave it ?????
This is crazy!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

UMP said:


> DAMN, I wish I could be more like your husband. Does he have a 12 " penis or something? You work full time, cook and clean, are a porn star in bed and he could take it or leave it ?????
> This is crazy!


Sure but then your wife would be grumpy and complaining about you too  

There is a lot about me that many men would not be compatible with. I am no where near perfect and have many faults of my own (getting into negative slumps is one he gets upset about so I'm still trying to fix that)

I complain about the bad parts but for the most part we get along, are best friends, have the same goals, and work pretty good together.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Sure but then your wife would be grumpy and complaining about you too
> 
> There is a lot about me that many men would not be compatible with. I am no where near perfect and have many faults of my own (getting into negative slumps is one he gets upset about so I'm still trying to fix that)
> 
> I complain about the bad parts but for the most part we get along, are best friends, have the same goals, and work pretty good together.


A man can put up with ALOT if he can get porn quality sex, IMO.
You are a faithful, hard working vixen. What more can a guy ask for?? I mean really!
I think your husband needs a lobotomy.

Let us know if you do something that gets him more interested. I would really like to know what it is.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

UMP, the point is that the guys who can take it or leave it are the ones who get the porn star gals. The gals are used to be slobbered over and they take it as a challenge to get the guy who doesn't care. Or they figure it is a nice change of pace that he isn't all over her for sex like all the guys she dated in the past.

This is a case of "be careful what you wish for". Ladies, if you are thinking this guy is great because he looks into your eyes instead of your boobs and doesn't notice beautiful women who walk by and isn't constantly pestering you for sex, that is fine. But don't be surprised if 6 months or 2 years later he is no longer interested in jumping your bones. After all, not being all that into jumping your bones is what you LIKED about him.

It is a tradeoff. If you want a guy who is going to jump your bones from now until 50 years from now, he is likely going to stare at your boobs and the boobs of the gal walking by at the beach and he is going to press you for sex on occasions when you are not in the mood. The guy who never does any of those things is not all that into sex and he isn't going to be jumping your bones all that often. Pick your poison. Don't complain about which you picked.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I've never been the type to be slobbered on or took him as a challenge but I get the point  

Really, he was going to be a one night stand, I had a kid young and never really lived much so my friends encouraged me to live a little, ask the cute guy to come home with me. He just happened to stick around for 10 years.

But he doesn't look at other women, or flirt with them. That's very important to me. 
Really I don't know what would be worse for me, having a guy who didn't look at me or one who looked at everyone. That's a hard choice. Being pestered all the time for sex, whined at when he doesn't get it- those would be crappy too. 

But he does look at my boobs, or my butt - he's a butt guy. Can't keep his hands off it, but a hot girl can walk by and he doesn't really care.

I really shouldn't complain so much.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> H is very much rough and tough, to a fault most of the time, and emotionally AND physically.
> 
> *Whenever I back off of sex, H doesn't notice. I think the longest we went was 6+ months before I finally couldn't take it anymore and said something. This time I only made it 2 months before I cracked*.
> 
> ...


I really don't know HOW YOU CAN LIVE WITH THIS !! Without it crushing you emotionally AND raising the roof off the house in sheer pizzed-offness







... I'd have no patience for this ..... stuff like this causes such pain , Resentment....not to mention other men will start looking pretty darn good , and if the opportunity came along....if you are living with this !! This is just not OK...

I would consider this a form of breaking vows ... he is withholding his love, care, cherishing, the intimacy between man & wife , taking it ...wasting it on a damn computer screen.... never meant to be this way... this spits on EVERYTHING we are supposed to BE for each other. 

6 months !! There was a time when I joined here.. I was upset with my husband cause he couldn't give it to me EVERY DAY... talk about hard to please!! (That's me)..... He was slowing down.. but his attitude in dealing with my high drive...he was amazing.. it took a time to get it through my thick skull that he really wanted to be there for me.. cause I was pushing it !.. I caused him some performance pressure even. 

I remember during that time reading stories on this forum -like yours, also men with passionless wives, rejection what they wake up to every day.. in small doses....I would sit here & cry reading these stories.. I was so emotional about it.. cause I wouldn't have been able to deal with it -myself... I'd have hauled off & told my husband if he didn't want me.. I'd find someone who did.. (I must sound awful saying [email protected]#)..I'd be flaming angry. 

I guess due to my own experience.. where I feel I have neglected his "lust" our 1st 19 yrs... (just took it for granted is all, I always craved sex / being with him)... then the tables turned on their heads (I got a taste of being the needy one!).. I just have no sympathy for those married who don't please their spouses... what do they REALLY THINK is going to happen here ??

Intimacy is just THAT important.. on a regular ongoing basis ....

I hope you can resolve this.. sometimes people need to Understand / get a picture of what they stand to LOSE .. 

If you walked out of his life.... you wanted out.. what do you think his reaction would be ??


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

That is a big problem, I get very vulnerable. I already did the stupid thing of posting my pics, sometimes I do sit there and see a guy walk by and think "I wonder if he'd want to F me...." 
So I do stay far, far away from other men. Far, far away from ever being anywhere that could lead to an affair. 

He doesn't want to lose me, if I wanted out he would be crushed. He does love me very much, and his family. 

A few things are going to be changing soon- the last few years have been difficult job wise for him. He's been not doing what he's passionate about, sometimes the hours are ridiculous leaving him not sleeping for 36 hours straight and then 5 hours sleep. He's not getting paid what he was used to making. 
Sucked a lot of his oomph out of him. He is one of the best in what he does. It's dangerous, gives him the adrenaline shot, leaves him feeling pride because not a lot of people can do it. When you hear him talk about it, his whole face lights up, his body loosens up. 

He starts there again in a few weeks. He'll have normal sleep, normal hours, passion, pride, and he won't be so stressed about money. He'll be paid what he's worth. I'm hoping that this will help the situation too so we'll see how things go once some of these obstacles are out of the way.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I've never been the type to be slobbered on or took him as a challenge but I get the point
> 
> Really, he was going to be a one night stand, I had a kid young and never really lived much so my friends encouraged me to live a little, ask the cute guy to come home with me. He just happened to stick around for 10 years.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's simply a desire to control you, on his part. Perhaps he enjoys seeing you crave him. He also enjoys you wanting him to want you. Problem is, as you stated above, if he changed it might lesson your desire for him which he does not want either. *"Being pestered all the time for sex, whined at when he doesn't get it- those would be crappy too."* 

I know with my wife, if I show her attention every day, hold her hand, kiss her, massage her, the sex is simply not as good. If I hold back, don't touch or kiss her for days, she is really into sex.
On my part, it is very difficult NOT to touch her every day, not to massage her and dote on her. In other words in order for me to produce primal "want" from my wife I must, in a way, tease her into it. It is contrary to my personality, yet it is what I must do.

Your husband seems like a ninja in this regard. He has perfected this talent of stringing you along and subsidizing his desire with porn. Porn does nothing for me other than make me want to be with my wife more. I believe your husband believes he has FULL control over you and that's just the way he likes it.

My wife wants to have full control over me and uses sex (because that's what I want most) However, I don't let her have full control.

I believe you must do the same. You mention many things you have done to try and get some sort of control, yet he weathers ANYTHING you throw at him. I think the reason for this is that you are unconvincing to him. He can simply see through all of it. My wife used to do the same thing with me. She would play her games and inevitably get me to blow up and have a "conversation" about our "problem." She wanted and did not want this to happen all at once. She wanted it because she wants control over me. She did not want it because it lessons her sexual desire for me.

Therefore, I must chose which direction I want us to go and make it happen no matter how hard it is on me emotionally. I now never get upset and just roll with her games.

The only way you are going to change things is if you can convince your husband that you don't care anymore whether he wants you or not. Until then, he is in the drivers seat.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

He does have more power, more control. It annoys me and makes me feel helpless. 
Even just as I was writing that, he asks if I can make him a coffee and I just get up and go do it. I do those kinds of things multiple times a day for him. He's just playing a facebook game, he's not busy, I have to go to work much sooner than he does, but he gets me to do it and I just do. 
These things don't bother me until I go too long without getting anything back.

He has said a couple times that he'd never want to be a guy who was "p*ssy whipped" or chased sex and he's never had to chase it, so being a guy who wants and needs sex is weak to him, negative and him not needing it is somehow stronger. Maybe it is his way of maintaining power and control.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

You have to decide how much you want to resolve this and how determined he is to avoid being whipped. Is he willing to entirely give up porn and masturbation or would he see that as being whipped? As UMP said, you may have to play a "game" with your H. Are you willing to behave in an unnatural or uncomfortable manner if it produces the reaction in your H you desire? Or do you feel you should be able to "be yourself" and that if you have to twist yourself into a pretzel to get the desired reaction than it isn't worth trying?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He does have more power, more control. It annoys me and makes me feel helpless.
> Even just as I was writing that, he asks if I can make him a coffee and I just get up and go do it. I do those kinds of things multiple times a day for him. He's just playing a facebook game, he's not busy, I have to go to work much sooner than he does, but he gets me to do it and I just do.
> These things don't bother me until I go too long without getting anything back.
> 
> He has said a couple times that he'd never want to be a guy who was "p*ssy whipped" or chased sex and he's never had to chase it, so being a guy who wants and needs sex is weak to him, negative and him not needing it is somehow stronger. Maybe it is his way of maintaining power and control.


I will be honest with you. I want to be more like your husband so that my wife will be more like you! 

What do you think of that? :grin2:


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

UMP said:


> I will be honest with you. I want to be more like your husband so that my wife will be more like you!
> 
> What do you think of that? :grin2:


I think there's gotta be a happy medium in there somewhere so neither person feels too much loss of control. I just don't know what that would be.

I think I would be willing to try things that feel uncomfortable or not myself, if it has a chance of working. 
Yes, my preferred situation would be not having to but if it can help to avoid this getting even worse down the road, where the resentment is too much to get over, then it'd be worth it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> *I think there's gotta be a happy medium in there somewhere so neither person feels too much loss of control. I just don't know what that would be.*
> 
> I think I would be willing to try things that feel uncomfortable or not myself, if it has a chance of working.
> Yes, my preferred situation would be not having to but if it can help to avoid this getting even worse down the road, where the resentment is too much to get over, then it'd be worth it.


Going by that one post.. he is looking at porn a minimum of once a day & sometimes 2-3 times... he has an "addiction" here..... this habit will not to be easy to break... this is why he can't keep his word to you.. 

You said this time it's been 2 months.. so you cracked...do you know sex therapists would classify this as a sexless marriage ... If I recall right... it's 10 or less times a year.. if you are going stretches that last 2 months long....does he realize this , how serious it really is... 

This power play thing.. a shame people need to turn up their temperature, then turn it down.. playing these stupid games with each other, especially after they are married...

Though I do believe that OFTEN (not speaking for all)...that 1 spouse FEELS more powerful in a given relationship, could be for various reasons.. sex appeal / that desire thing... how much $$ they bring in (knowing the other couldn't just get out).... a variety of things can make us FEEL Powerful over another...

Your husband's disgust with seeing men who bow to women.. he's probably seen some pretty pathetic things ...women yelling at a man or whatever- maybe a friend or someone he is close to... those aren't good examples.... has he seen any GOOD examples of "give & take" relationships ...that is the question.. 

*Whomever is in the position of more POWER, should use it wisely TO ENHANCE their relationship*.. he is NOT doing this..he doesn't even appear to be trying to do this.. he knows this HURTS YOU.. and he's almost patting himself on the back comparing himself to puzzy whipped men. This is not loving behavior... it's screwed up.. is he even hearing you??

I am at a loss to know what to say to those who struggle in these situations... it's never easy...I have my own take when there's a difference in drives (the larger the difference, the harder the battle though)...

Though HERE...he has an addiction (don't you think?)....if this wasn't sucking up his energy.. you'd probably be in a good place sexually.. satisfied.. 

The addiction IS THE ENEMY .....

He has to want to rid himself of it.. to save his marriage.. 

Most of us NEED a partner willing to meet us half way... showing us they care... 

Hopefully the change in jobs will brighten his spirits.. he'll be more relaxed , have more time to concentrate on you....but still if this is an addiction.. he may struggle to lay it down ENOUGH... slipping back into old ways time & time again.. 

Being rejected is very heavy on us, especially from our lover...then the more sensitive we are....it screams many negative things.. hopelessness... we question ourselves.. I can only imagine... none of us want to feel like we're begging to get our needs met... 

This turns off the other... AND it makes us feel worthless in the process... it's a lose / lose for everyone...

The partner with "more power" should never WANT his or her significant other to FEEL LIKE THAT ....ever... If one is too tired, exhausted... it's understandable.. but you WANT TO MAKE UP FOR THAT as soon as possible !... offering to be ready/ willing the next night for example...and MAKE IT HAPPEN...take charge, show initiative.. to reach out to the one who is there for you... 

...THIS is making good on our power while enhancing our relationship. 

When someone keeps breaking promises they have made... there comes a time...they become "the little boy who cried wolf".. the TRUST is so gone... then you become numb to their promises. 

He needs to want to stop, change his life, you are a significant part of his life.. or he's going to lose you.. there may come a day when you'll not want to look the other way.. 

This is my offering on how it SHOULD play out.. but yeah.. this isn't reality.. I know.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...allowing-our-partner-turn-us-love-making.html


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Lol at "only made it two months before I cracked this time." If I had the will power to go two months without cracking over no sex I'd be like Yoda or something.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

We had a huge talk yesterday, it blew up a bit because I spent some time looking through all the places he looks at. I had put a porn blocker on his computer a while ago, he just finds ways around it but it keeps track of every site he goes to or tries to go to, even in incognito mode. 

Seeing it all, all I could think was "I can never compete with that" and he doesn't even watch the young, hot 18 year olds. He watches amateurs for the most part, some paid workers. It used to make me feel a little better that he was at least watching women with my body type, without the huge implants and the blonde hair, women our age. He watches women solo. Masturbating mostly. 

But all I could think was how the heck am I ever going to get him to want me more than them? They are beautiful, they don't have stretch marks or flaws. They have no needs of their own, they aren't hard to get off. 

He's promised me now to give it up and focus his attention 100% on me. He was saying all the right things, consoling me. I just don't believe him. Yet anyway. But I told him I would give him the chance to do it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes, I'm thinking it's gone way into addiction mode at this point. There was so much more of it than I thought. The times when he works nights, there is porn every hour or so during the day when I am gone (last week of him ever doing that shift) 
Even on normal days, it's not once or twice. It's up to 5 times a day, waking up at night 3 am, 5 am. 

I just felt sick.

That may be a good idea, just be open to replace the porn with me, quickies and bjs and the longer times when we have the time. Then once it's all out of his system and he's used to coming to me for his sexual needs, start to repair our sex life as a whole. 

It's really hard for me to have one-sided anything, my resentment tries to claw it's way back up, but I also know that none of this can be fixed if there's still porn in the picture and expecting too much too soon, he'll probably just give up and go back to it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'll have to really think about if it's something I can even do. It feels gross, makes me feel used, brings up a lot of hurt feelings and resentment. The last few times I tried I ended up just crying and sick after. 

I think that's why I let the porn go on so long, at least it stopped those feelings, it just created other ones.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> We had a huge talk yesterday, it blew up a bit because I spent some time looking through all the places he looks at. I had put a porn blocker on his computer a while ago, he just finds ways around it but it keeps track of every site he goes to or tries to go to, even in incognito mode.
> 
> Seeing it all, all I could think was "I can never compete with that" and he doesn't even watch the young, hot 18 year olds. He watches amateurs for the most part, some paid workers. It used to make me feel a little better that he was at least watching women with my body type, without the huge implants and the blonde hair, women our age. He watches women solo. Masturbating mostly.
> 
> ...


I don't think this is going to work. When someone is watching porn every hour, that's an addiction. 3:00 a.m., 5:00 a.m.; addiction. You are now expecting an addict to quit cold turkey. It simply won't work.

I'm not sure what's available for services where you live/work but is there any hope for counselling for him, especially sexual-issues related? If so, get him in there. In the meantime, I'd go more with the idea of trying to wean him off. Give him an amount of time that he can watch porn -say 20 per cent of what he does now- so he has an outlet but you are still forcing a sizeable cutback. Make sure you stipulate that he is forthcoming with when/where he goes and that you will be checking to make sure he's being honest. If he isn't honest even once, separate or just divorce. Make the consequence severe.

Counselling will hopefully allow that time to eventually be cutback more and/or stopped completely. Be sure to tell him the eventual goal is to give it up completely because he's an addict.

Giving up an addiction will only work if the addict wants to make that change. You can't force it on them, they have to want it. Considering your husband has made this promise before from what I gather and failed and is only making the same promise now because you handed him an ultimatum, I doubt he really wants to change. 



OliviaG said:


> I was reading your thread thinking that if my husband behaved similarly I would institute a scorched earth policy against porn. I think that the issue in your marriage comes down to a porn addiction at root, and even though he sounds like a great guy in many other ways, I would sacrifice the relationship over it if I had to. Because his attitude would hurt me to the core; I wouldn't be able to take it for any length of time.
> 
> Hold him to his promise SGC! It sounds like he loves you. I wouldn't give an inch on this issue, but I would be open to sex whenever he wants it: quickies, BJs, and insist on "the big production" as often as you need it too. *Make it as easy as possible for him to stay away from porn.
> *
> Over time, if he keeps his promise, I think the problem will resolve itself.


It's an addiction. He knows he can get whatever he wants from SGC right now (or pretty close to whatever he wants). Offering him whatever he wants won't do much because it's not the issue. The issue is the addiction, and furthermore whatever that addiction is feeding. I doubt it's actually sex related in and of itself. There's something in the porn he's watching that's giving him something, maybe a sense of power, a sense of control, hard to say. That's why he needs counselling, he needs to understand what his porn addiction is fuelling.

I bet if you ask him, he could have sex two or three times in a day with SGC and still end up on the computer looking up porn later that night. There's something in the porn he's not getting elsewhere and likely has nothing to do with sex itself in my opinion.



OliviaG said:


> I don't know if men are the same or not, but what I've found out about myself lately is the MB does not really quench my desire for long. At the height of my unbelievably high desire a couple of months ago, I might MB 6 times per day, and a few times at night in order to be able to sleep. Any relief I felt from the constant drive did not last long at all. Meanwhile, after a session with my husband, my body would feel warm and tingly and relaxed, and I'd get a break from the turned-on-need-an-orgasm-now torture for a day or so. I have no reason why this would be - the skin to skin contact? Because he ejaculated in me and my body absorbed some hormones, etc. from that? I have no idea.


While I can't MB that often, I can tell you it's the same for men, at least this man. I can MB and be just itching for sex minutes later sometimes. But if I have sex -especially if I have sex on back to back days- I can all but forget about sex for a week sometimes. It's not the orgasm, it's the closeness of being with someone I care about and expressing that closeness in a very special and intimate way. I just want to touch, kiss, feel my love, make her feel special and have her make me feel special in a way that should be reserved only for me -and from me to her. To look at her and I am with her and say I love you or have that passionate kiss as we wrap around each other.

I don't care how good I am at MB, my hand can never give me that.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

He'd never go to counseling. 

I don't give him whatever he wants right now. He started the porn when I started refusing. 
He wants to be able to have quickies or BJs in the morning and only have real sex on weekends. Even if we have real sex on the weekend, he will still want some one sided stuff the same day too. 

I stopped hoping he would decide to make every event a mutual one and he just turned to porn for those times.

When he's stopped porn before, he makes it like a day before he wants some morning or quick action, which I refuse, then he goes back to the porn. 

What he gets from porn, IMO, is that it's easy and no effort. No one to please, no initiation, no spending time with foreplay and getting me off before sex.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Does every event have to be mutual in your books? Or is it ok for him to have quickies at times and for him to give you whatever you want at other times?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

And frankly if he won't even consider counselling I find it hard to buy that he's at all serious about addressing the issue. At the very least he should be willing to talk to a counsellor once to get assessed considering how often you've brought this up.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Does every event have to be mutual in your books? Or is it ok for him to have quickies at times and for him to give you whatever you want at other times?


I'm really hate one sided stuff. I can do it, I have, it just makes me hate sex and resent him. Enough times and I wouldn't even want him to touch me. At least that's how it went the last time I tried. 

He hates therapy and drs in general. He won't go but I knew that when I met him, can't really change that about him now.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I'm really hate one sided stuff. I can do it, I have, it just makes me hate sex and resent him. Enough times and I wouldn't even want him to touch me. At least that's how it went the last time I tried.
> 
> He hates therapy and drs in general. He won't go but I knew that when I met him, can't really change that about him now.


So it's either the full course or you don't enjoy it? 

I think the majority of sex in a marriage should be equally for both sides, but if my partner ever came to me and was in the mood and I wasn't, I'd still offer to give her something most times. No resentment, I'd actually enjoy it because I want to help her out. Obviously I'd want the same offer in return down the line, but the point is it should be about making your partner happy as well.

Now that said, I get the sense that you do that, or at least used to, and he didn't offer to give you what you wanted in return down the line. Quickies and BJs were all he wanted, no offer of what you wanted. That is quite selfish.

When he gets what he wants, how do you think he views it? Is he glad he's getting it from you because it's you, or do you think he's just coming to you because you're his wife and he has to?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> So it's either the full course or you don't enjoy it?
> 
> I think the majority of sex in a marriage should be equally for both sides, but if my partner ever came to me and was in the mood and I wasn't, I'd still offer to give her something most times. No resentment, I'd actually enjoy it because I want to help her out. Obviously I'd want the same offer in return down the line, but the point is it should be about making your partner happy as well.
> 
> ...


No, he'd never do something one sided. If I ask for anything then he'll be getting off as well and there's a big difference between not in the mood and your partner just not wanting to do the work.

It's never a matter of me not being in the mood, it's that he doesn't have the time or energy or desire to make the effort. 

He'd typically want something quick every morning and then real sex on the weekends.

He enjoys it when I do it, he loves my Bjs, I do think he's glad he's getting from me but he doesn't want it enough to make every time mutual which is why he turned to porn when I stopped the one sided crap.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It is mostly my self-esteem that is what's being needed. In my mind, if I was pretty and sexy he'd want sex with me more often. Simple.
> He does everything he can to complement me, grabbing and touching me, I literally can't make a single meal without him coming in to grab my butt when I open the oven or pot cupboard.
> 
> And for the most part that's enough, every now and then though it turns into
> ...


It sounds like your husband should read "Married Man's Sex Life". Yes, I know that book has a bad reputation among some people here, but it explains this dynamic perfectly. Maybe he would get it if he read it in a book?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No, he'd never do something one sided. If I ask for anything then he'll be getting off as well and there's a big difference between not in the mood and your partner just not wanting to do the work.
> 
> It's never a matter of me not being in the mood, it's that he doesn't have the time or energy or desire to make the effort.
> 
> ...


Why are you staying with him? I get that you love him and there's compatibility outside the bedroom but it's clear this is causing major friction between the two of you and try as you might all you're getting is empty promises, little to no real effort and smoke blown up your ass. 

Based on what you have written in this thread he either wants sex 100% his way and to enjoy his porn addiction on the side and hasn't given any effort to change, or any indication to ever change. Do you want this for the rest of your life, because that appears to be the route you are on.

You have three choices; (1) stay and just accept the situation you're in (and hopefully get him to do something about it but that seems like a shot in the dark right now) (2) leave over it and go find yourself someone who is compatible with you everywhere, not just outside the bedroom, or (3) stay but have an affair and get your sexual needs elsewhere. 

Number three should be eliminated, it's never the solution, so it comes down to staying or leaving. Do you want to sentence yourself to a lifetime of threads on TAM hoping for a solution?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

It most likely will be a deal breaker one day. It's not at the leaving him point yet. There's also no guarantees that I'll find any better out there and a lot of risks to trying. Until leaving and taking my chances as a single Mother looks like a better option than what I have now, I'll stay. 
Right now I do have a lot of the things that I want and with the family together. I'm not going to delusion myself into thinking my perfect man is out there somewhere. I'm an average (at best) looking shy, introvert with depression/anxiety/ptsd issues and a size 12 @ss. He loves me and knows me. Starting over just looks exhausting to me.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> It most likely will be a deal breaker one day. It's not at the leaving him point yet. *There's also no guarantees that I'll find any better out there* and a lot of risks to trying. Until leaving and taking my chances as a single Mother looks like a better option than what I have now, I'll stay.
> Right now I do have a lot of the things that I want and with the family together. I'm not going to delusion myself into thinking my perfect man is out there somewhere. I'm an average (at best) looking shy, introvert with depression/anxiety/ptsd issues and a size 12 @ss. He loves me and knows me. Starting over just looks exhausting to me.


That should never be in your mind. If someone else was saying what you are on here would you sincerely think they couldn't find better?

No, you wouldn't, so why are you the only one who can't find everything they want and dream of and need? Don't put yourself down, you are worthy of happiness the same as everyone else and are just as capable of finding it.

It could be argued you are more entitled to find that happiness simply because you are the type to put in the effort to find a solution to an issue, not sit back and spank the monkey like your husband. You want things to work, that's a very desirable trait.

And FYI, there's nothing wrong with size 12. I bet I speak for most men when I say women with a little meat on their bones is far more attractive than those size 2 runway models. I'm not interested in having sex with a coat rack.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> You have three choices; (1) stay and just accept the situation you're in (and hopefully get him to do something about it but that seems like a shot in the dark right now) (2) leave over it and go find yourself someone who is compatible with you everywhere, not just outside the bedroom, or (3) stay but have an affair and get your sexual needs elsewhere.


Don't forget option (4) make him meet your needs.

SGC I know you said you don't want it if he doesn't, and if this option will only make you feel used and sad, then you should absolutely ignore it.

But at the same time, he is being selfish only caring about his orgasm, and you can respond in exactly the same way. Make it about you, get him to meet your needs. Use him. And know that even though he is a bit broken, he still actually loves you enough to do this for you.

Again, if it will just make you sadder, ignore me. But consider it. You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you can get what you need.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

always_alone said:


> But consider it. You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you can get what you need.


lol love this. I think if we can meet each other halfway, he puts in more effort and I try to stop needing so much of his want, we could come to a happy enough middle ground. I'll likely never be 100% happy with this part of us, live-able should be my new goal.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Don't forget option (4) make him meet your needs.
> 
> SGC I know you said you don't want it if he doesn't, and if this option will only make you feel used and sad, then you should absolutely ignore it.
> 
> ...


Covered under number one, because right now it's basically a shot in the dark. The only way it's going to change is if he realizes it HAS to. Seems like in his head he thinks she won't leave, so he won't change. Unless he legitimately thinks she'll leave, or unless she does leave, this will continue on and on.

What's his motivation to change? It should be for his wife and for his marriage, but it's plainly clear he's made essentially no effort to change anything despite her doing everything but hanging a flashing neon sign reading 'insert here' on her genitals. 

There's nothing I have read in this thread that gives me any indication he will ever change. It's up to the OP if she wants to live with that or not and if not, how long she'll stay.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Covered under number one, because right now it's basically a shot in the dark. The only way it's going to change is if he realizes it HAS to. Seems like in his head he thinks she won't leave, so he won't change. Unless he legitimately thinks she'll leave, or unless she does leave, this will continue on and on.
> 
> What's his motivation to change? It should be for his wife and for his marriage, but it's plainly clear he's made essentially no effort to change anything despite her doing everything but hanging a flashing neon sign reading 'insert here' on her genitals.
> 
> There's nothing I have read in this thread that gives me any indication he will ever change. It's up to the OP if she wants to live with that or not and if not, how long she'll stay.


I do understand this and chances are, he'll never change. 
But I have to be realistic and understand that chances are- I'm not going to find someone else who wants me all that much either. 

If the whole marriage was crap, it would make more sense. But to break up my family and take my chances, putting my kids through all that, give up everything I do have now for a slim shot at anything better is a big risk. 

It's not putting myself down, it's just being real. I accept that I'm not the girl who guys see and want to sleep with. Once someone gets to know me, if they like who I am, I become more of a catch but I'm too shy and closed off to get to that point. 

Ultimately I think I have to work on acceptance, stop complaining about it and just deal with it. Take what I can when I can and stop living chasing a fantasy. 

My anti-D meds dropped my sex drive down from wanting it every day to wanting it a couple times a week. I'm going to up them, for one because I'm still getting stuck in negative ruts but it may kill whatever drive is left making it a lot easier for me to deal.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Covered under number one, because right now it's basically a shot in the dark. The only way it's going to change is if he realizes it HAS to. Seems like in his head he thinks she won't leave, so he won't change. Unless he legitimately thinks she'll leave, or unless she does leave, this will continue on and on.


It's not a shot in the dark at all. SGC has said that he will do as she asks, as in will please her sexually. He just won't change enough to give up the porn and really *want* to please her sexually.

My suggestion is to accept his limits, because it's not like you can ever change anyone anyhow, and simply take advantage of his strengths, aka willingness to help her out.

It is far from ideal, I get that, and should only be done if SGC herself is comfortable with that solution. But it's more or less how I've approached a similar sitch, and it mostly works. The hardest part is not letting the naggy little voice in your head run you down for not being desirable enough, and just saying the heck with it, I *still* get to have me some decent sex.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> but it's always mutually enjoyable sex.


This is key, IMHO. I'm totally with SGC on avoiding one-sided sex. It is especially awful when you know you are basically competing with every naked body on the internet (and boy are there a LOT of them).

As for getting him to give up the porn addiction? Only he can do that, and odds are pretty high that he'll just hide it well rather than give it up. This is *crazy-making*. Better, easier (at least IMHO) to not worry about what he is up to and just insist on certain needs being met.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I can't enjoy quickies because I need foreplay to get in the mood and I don't O with PIV so he'd end up needing to get me off some other way. It's just too much work for him to do when he just wants something quick and easy, says he doesn't have the time. 

I have to get out of the hoping part because I get let down every time. 

Like when we had our big talk, he promised me that we were going to have sex this weekend. K, so I go and spend a bunch of time getting all shaved up (I gave up a while ago and stopped) lotioned up, put on my nice underwear and went to bed. I know he only really wants to in the morning and usually won't after his shower and he was at work Sat so that left this morning. 

He just wakes up, has his coffee, takes his shower, and says we should get to Costco early before it's busy. 

I mentioned the promise and he just goes 'oh, well we can still do it later on today'

Ya, no thanks. It feels worse when I get my hopes up, when I get all ready and wait. I end up feeling like an idiot.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Damn. I asked him if he'd rather just have an open relationship and he said yes. Guess it is just me


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I do understand this and chances are, he'll never change.
> But I have to be realistic and understand that chances are- I'm not going to find someone else who wants me all that much either.
> 
> If the whole marriage was crap, it would make more sense. But to break up my family and take my chances, putting my kids through all that, give up everything I do have now for a slim shot at anything better is a big risk.
> ...


This here I think is your real problem you should be focusing on. You can't change anyone in the world except yourself and man, do you have a low opinion of yourself.

I haven't seen you but unless you loo like the elephant man I'd be willing to bet you look at least average. That's not bad at all and plenty of guys are more than interested in average.

You go from average to simply smoking hot when you factor in you are someone who has a high sex drive and are willing to work way to hard to get that sex drive satisfied. Take it from a guy who has now been in two relationships where he had pretty much the same sex life you are describing (getting rejected frequently, a spouse that would rather watch Survivor and read Pinterest than have sex, could go months or even years without the type of sex you want).

Give me a woman who may be a 5/10 looks wise with a strong sex drive over a 10/10 that rejects me 90 per cent of the time. Any day of the week.

There is no reason for you to think you would have a 'slim chance' of finding someone or that you wouldn't attract someone. You obviously attracted your husband, and if I'm not mistaken he wasn't your only partner so you've attracted others as well.

You need to believe in yourself. Sometimes the absolute worst place to be is in your own head.

And btw, kids can tell when you aren't happy. Yes, it's hard on them to have divorced parents, but it's also hard on them to have parents who are miserable and you sound downright miserable right now.



always_alone said:


> It's not a shot in the dark at all. SGC has said that he will do as she asks, as in will please her sexually. He just won't change enough to give up the porn and really *want* to please her sexually.
> 
> My suggestion is to accept his limits, because it's not like you can ever change anyone anyhow, and simply take advantage of his strengths, aka willingness to help her out.
> 
> It is far from ideal, I get that, and should only be done if SGC herself is comfortable with that solution. But it's more or less how I've approached a similar sitch, and it mostly works. The hardest part is not letting the naggy little voice in your head run you down for not being desirable enough, and just saying the heck with it, I *still* get to have me some decent sex.


It is a shot in the dark because he's made similar promises before and never fulfilled them. Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior and he's:

-made promises regarding sex and constantly fails to keep them
-is selfish in bed
-has a porn addiction
-refuses counselling
-seeming doesn't care if she threatens to do things like go out all night to a bar (which she didn't do but suggested she would)
-can easily go months without sex if she doesn't just do what he wants in bed

That's a lot to go against, and hence why I said it's a shot in the dark. You can lead a horse to water....



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I can't enjoy quickies because I need foreplay to get in the mood and I don't O with PIV so he'd end up needing to get me off some other way. It's just too much work for him to do when he just wants something quick and easy, says he doesn't have the time.
> 
> I have to get out of the hoping part because I get let down every time.
> 
> ...


I know exactly how you feel. You get your hopes up even though you know in the back of your head that it's almost guaranteed to fail, yet you want to believe anyway. Then you go through all the motions to set the scene to be as sexually positive as possible only to get rejected and find out they had forgot (or were pretending they forgot).

If you mention it again, you may get some, but you'll be left wondering if the only reason he had sex with you is because you nagged him into it. If you don't say anything though he'll conveniently 'forget' and all you'll get is another vague promise it'll happen 'this week sometime for sure.'


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Damn. I asked him if he'd rather just have an open relationship and he said yes. Guess it is just me


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Damn. I asked him if he'd rather just have an open relationship and he said yes. Guess it is just me


Was he serious?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Serious or not, you don't say yes to that question considering how touchy of an issue sex is to your spouse unless you are an *******


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Damn. I asked him if he'd rather just have an open relationship and he said yes. Guess it is just me


Well, you have a kind of open relationship already. It's you, him and the porn right now.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

always_alone said:


> But at the same time, he is being selfish only caring about his orgasm, and you can respond in exactly the same way. Make it about you, get him to meet your needs. *Use him*. And know that even though he is a bit broken, he still actually loves you enough to do this for you.


I am actually under instructions to do this. 

I'm happy with our sex life and we're generally pretty in sync, but sometimes I want sex and he's rather "meh". DH gave me standing orders that, at those times, I am to drag him to where I want him and have my way with him with absolutely no regard for him.

I get what I need and he feels wanted. Win-Win.

Maybe you should try it a few times to see how it works out.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Damn. I asked him if he'd rather just have an open relationship and he said yes. Guess it is just me


Ouch! I'm sorry SGC. You do deserve better!


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

This slug has given you permission to seek satisfaction elsewhere and admitted he doesn't have what it takes. Just go with it melady. Find you a friend with benefits that can host and spend some quality time with you, talking with you, and making you feel special where sex is just the icing on the cake. 
You say you want someone who is more than a "wham, bam, thank you mam" kind of guy. Find a friend that will give foot massages without expecting anything in return. Take my word for it. Believe me, finding someone to take his place will be easy (albeit, you may have to shop around a bit) and you and your old man with both be happier.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

intheory said:


> But it did take a bit of psycho/emotional re-orientation (at least for me at first)


Yeah, me too. And still ongoing.

TBH, I'm not sure how to let go of the "competing" aspect. I'd sure like to, and can forget about it for some time, but then the pesky little voice in my head reminds me what's what. I tell myself not to care, but I guess I still do.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
certainly a lot of men (and quite a few women) watch porn. I think the key is that many men understand that porn is just fantasy and in no way expect it to represent real sex. There are lots of men who do care about their partners and want intimacy to be mutual.

In the same way, most women do not expect their partners to be princes, or vampires, shadow hunters, or whatever is the common female fantasy of the day. 





intheory said:


> I don't think there is such a thing as "the right man". I think, at the present point in time; ALL men use porn pretty frequently.
> snip


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

ALL men watch porn frequently? Seems like a tad bit of a stretch don't you think?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Yeah, me too. And still ongoing.
> 
> TBH, *I'm not sure how to let go of the "competing" aspect. I'd sure like to, and can forget about it for some time, but then the pesky little voice in my head reminds me what's what. I tell myself not to care, but I guess I still do.*


I wish I could figure this out for myself too.


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