# Mixed signals and false starts



## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Hi Everyone. First post on the forums because I'm at a loss with my situation. Figuring people on these boards have heard stories similar to mine and might have some advice.

My wife (29 and I'm 34) of 7 years, 11 years together, told me in August that she wanted a divorce. Three days later she moved in with a friend for a week before getting her own apartment. Her reasons where: 1) She felt neglected and thought I didn't like her. 2) She felt like her needs had taken a back seat for too long. 3) She had wanted a baby before 30 and last year I expressed doubts (which she interpreted as me lying to her all along) and now she felt like her time had passed and that left her heartbroken. 4) She snooped through my chat history and found conversations between me and a coworker in September of last year that she felt signaled an emotional affair (we were really good friends, but no romantic feelings ever developed and I never talked badly about my wife to her).

For the first two months, we kept in almost constant contact and there were a ton of mixed signals. For the first month she talked about how lonely she was and reminded me of things we used to do together. It was torturous and every time I would plead my case that we should work on things. That was always met with either silence, a rebuttal like "I wish things had been different", or a swift change of subject.

In October, I made a grand gesture by buying us tickets to Disneyland (I proposed there) so we could make new memories at our favorite place on Earth. She called that night and repeatedly asked why I had done it and each time I responded that it was because I love her and wanted to do something nice. She thanked me and we chit-chatted for a bit before getting off the phone.

After talking with my therapist, I decided that I needed to send her an email requesting we meet in person and talk about how she was feeling. I said that limbo had been tough on both of us and clarity was needed, even if she simply needed more time, for our emotional health. I sent it on a Saturday and the next night she responded via text that she had started filling out the divorce paperwork but needed some information from me. She said she could either send an email with what she needed or we could meet and do it in person. I was obviously crushed, but told her I understood and needed just a bit of time to cope with it. She agreed.

Three days later she texted that she had gotten her car back (she'd been in a hit and run accident and without a car for nearly 3 weeks). I didn't respond. Four hours later, she sent a text saying, "Ok then." I still didn't respond because that's passive aggressive and she wants a divorce. I started feeling sick so I went to sleep at around 1030 and woke up at 220am. I looked at my phone and there were tons of notifications via Facebook and she had sent an email accusing me of blocking her number (I had definitely not done that). As soon as I checked Facebook, she tried calling me through the site. I ignored the call but immediately texted that it was great news about her car and that I had gotten sick and passed out. She asked why I'd blocked her number and I told her I hadn't. Eventually, she texted that she was sorry to hear I wasn't feeling well. The next morning at 730am she sent a text saying, "I hope you're feeling better!" I responded that I was a bit better but still not great. Then she asked if I was home resting with our cat, which seemed like she was fishing for information and didn't really believe I was home sick. I mean, where else would I be at 730am when I'm sick. I told her I was but that I was going into work and she responded, "Ah, okay. Go to the doctor if you need to!"

Halloween weekend came a few days later. I had a show (I play music) that Saturday that I'd posted about on Facebook and two hours before it started she tried to call (I missed it because I was rehearsing) and so I texted her back asking her what was up. She texted that she was walking around a mall by herself with a sad face. I told her I was sorry to hear that and asked if she could make plans with some of her friends. She responded that she had no friends and was lonely. So, I took a chance and invited her to my show that night. I got no response and the entire performance I kept watching the entrance to see if she'd show—she didn't. Afterwards, I texted asking her what she'd gotten into and she responded, "Ate alone in my car, cried and now I'm home alone with my cat on my favorite holiday because this is my life now." I was confused, sad and hurt so I asked why she didn't come to the show and she responded, "I just would have cried the whole time and that wouldn't have been respectful to you." We texted throughout the night and at one point she accused me of being rude (I wasn't) but we ended things on a good note.

I texted her Happy Halloween on Monday and she responded in kind. I asked her what she was up to and she sent a picture of her bed with a bowl of salad on it and her cat. I again urged her to go out with friends and she got defensive and said she isn't some social butterfly and that she's alone 90% of the time.

November came and for the first two weeks we were texting regularly. One of her favorite things to do during this has been to send me pictures of baby onesies. She used to do this before she left to express how much she wanted a baby with me. So in mid-November she was nearby our old apartment, where I still live, at the Target she used to shop at and told me how sad it made her and then sent a picture of a baby onesie with the words, "I hate this " I told her again that I wanted that with her and that it could still happen. I said that I'd actually bought a pack of onesies before she left and it was part of the surprise I mentioned earlier. She bit a little and expressed disbelief and asked if I'd bought them before or after she left. I told her before and she responded with, "I wish things had been different." I responded, "Well, they still could be." An hour later she sent me a picture of her cat.

The next day she was having dinner with a coworker of mine (we used to work together and are both friends with this person) and asked if she knew about us because she didn't want to get into it with her. I told her that she didn't know and then she asked if there's anything she should be prepared to find out, like if I was dating the coworker she thinks I had an emotional affair with. I told her that we weren't dating and that it was only ever a friendship and that the woman is now 8 months pregnant. She responded, "Good for her." She had dinner with the coworker that night and the next Monday I talked with the coworker about it and she said my wife seemed like she really wanted the divorce. As we were talking, my wife texted me and asked if I was ready for her to send the email. I made another plea but agreed to give her whatever she wanted once she sent the email.

A week and half went by with zero communication. I went to a basketball game and posted a picture on Instagram and she immediately tried calling me (we used to go to games together). I was at the game so I didn't pick up, but I called back at halftime and got no answer. The next day she sent a text asking if I'd want to meet up that coming weekend to fill out the paperwork. I ignored it, because I'd agreed sending her what she requested in an email but not meeting up to do it in person. That's just too painful.

The Saturday before Thanksgiving came and she tried calling again and sent a bunch of texts. I finally responded with, "Why do you want to meet up?" She claimed that I had wanted that (never asked for that and never will) and that she appreciated my response because she really didn't want to get lawyers involved. I ignored that and she texted again an hour later with, "I guess you just don't want to talk to me at all anymore."

The next night I sent an email again telling her how I felt, but agreed to send her what she needs once she let me know. I told her that I thought it was a mistake and that while we have our issues, we also bring more love, joy and happiness to one another than anyone else on Earth. I checked my email obsessively for the next three days and got nothing back.

I went to a friend's place out of town for Thanksgiving and while I was there I went to a basketball game and posted a picture on Instagram. A couple hours later she sent a text saying, "Who are you in Portland with?" Now, I have to admit this pissed me off quite a bit. First, she knows our friends moved up there recently and second, it really isn't any of her business if she wants to divorce me. Part of me thinks she's seeing someone else and wanted me to be with someone else as a way of relieving any guilt she might be feeling, but another part of me says she might just be confused and unsure of what she wants. Or it could be a combination and things I haven't even thought up.

That was last Friday and after I responded with the truth there has been zero communication. I'm honestly just completely adrift and don't know what to do. I don't want this divorce but feel like I'm stuck in permanent limbo. I feel like she wants me to snap and justify her decision. My wife needs a lot of affirmation and I feel like she wants me to validate her decision by being an active participant or by lashing out.

What do you all think I should do? I wrote up another email to collect my thoughts and I'm debating sending that or calling her (she hasn't picked up a call from me in some time). However, I'm not sure how that will play out any differently than my other attempts. Do I just sit back and do nothing and wait? Do I confront her somewhere I know she will be (that seems creepy to me but maybe it would work)? Or is there something else I should do to get some clarity?

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## ihatethis (Oct 17, 2013)

It sounds to me that she wants her cake and to eat it too. She wants a divorce to find someone else but until she finds someone else she wants to keep you on the string so she gets attention.

You have to have some self respect. I understand you don't want the divorce but she's just leading you on. You cannot make a marriage work if only one person wants to make it work.

My advice is to lay out the guidelines to her. If she wants a divorce, then your lives are separate and you both need to stop following each other on social media. It's not her business, nor yours as to what one another are doing. 

Tell her either she wants a divorce and you two cut off all communication unless it's about finalizing and splitting assets, or you work it out.

Sometimes you have to be cut and dry.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

She's doing the whole back and forth vascillating thing that happens when someone is ready to break up with another person. It becomes a battle of emotions versus what they know they really need to do. It's not fair to the person being dumped because it keeps them on the hook and totally messes with their head but what can you do?

What you can do is accept that it's over and stop watching the door for her to suddenly show up and stop obsessively checking for emails and texts hoping to read the words that will never be there.

The sooner the better.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Thanks to both of you for the replies.

This past weekend she actually sent the email requesting what she needed and followed up the next day with a text saying, "we need to work together to get through this part, and then you can be done with me."

It seems like you were both right. I responded about 2 hours after the text with an email containing what she needed and a text saying I don't want to be done with her at all, but I'd give her what she needs.

I'm terribly disappointed, but if this is what she really wants then I have to accept it. No communication since and I doubt there will be until she files or needs something else for the process.

Hope everyone else on these boards is having a better holiday season than I am.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I am sorry to hear that GP, I am curious have you asked her if she is seeing someone? has she moved on emotionally if not physically. I agree with the other posters, i find her to be somewhat immature to be honest, sounds like she has a lot of growing up to do. For now i would concentrate on your happiness, on moving on slowly but moving on none the less.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

When we don't spend enough time looking after ourselves in times of challenge we lose direction... time to unlearn how you are placing yourself here without that so that direction reaches back out to you like a lifeline.

You are hurting, but there is no reason to suffer the death of the relationship by a thousand ineffectual message cuts... time to step back so they do not cut you anymore and how you adapt is the key to ending this wave after wave of suffering.

Perhaps is time to forgive her for leaving the relationship, can you do that?

If you can, tell her... "I am sorry we are here because this was the last thing I wanted for us... I wish you the best and from now on the only communications we need are the legal ones"... and then step back again, turn around, and walk your healthy path to your future.

Maybe you can be friends in the future, but chances are once you begin to build that self love, respect, and confidence again, it won't matter. That doesn't mean you can't be friendly and kind, but you will never be friends in the same way again.

If you acknowledge you have forgiven the situation, and in effect her role in it, realizing that the relationship is no longer of the quality of trust you truly need, you now have the calm to go ahead and file for divorce yourself. She may throw a slew of emotions at you, but how is that different from the last four months? 

It isn't for her... the difference in it is you.

If she is testing your resolve, she'll have her answer... that you are no longer willing to follow a path of such suffering.

Then find the happiness you need in yourself because you really cannot get it anywhere else.

I'll bet she is discovering this the hard way right now...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Are her complaints valid?

Did you neglect her needs? Did her issues take a back seat?

Did you discuss kids and you reneged?

What I'm trying to get at is how much you actually want a relationship with your wife vs how comfortable you are with your life with her.

11 years is a long time and hard to let go. 

If her complaints are valid why were you not tending to your marriage if it was that important to you?


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## fall222 (Nov 26, 2016)

Agree with the last poster. Were your wife's complaints valid??? If so then that says a lot. Did u place the marriage relationship last?? After so many years of that kind of treatment I would have to question if you actually want the relationship???

Or was your wife just a convienience for you ? I'm sure your wife has a ton of resentment at this point. 

As far as working it out both parties have to comit to that 100%. 

If it were me in order to begin to try to work things out I would want her to move back home and begin counseling ASAP. Focus on the marrige and fixing it. Also cut off all communication with other men and women etc. 

If both parties don't agree to be into fixing the marriage 100%. I would just go no contact for a while and go through with the divorce. For me it would be all or nothing. 


Sounds like she has been unhappy for a long time. Being alone in a marriage is the worst.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

This limbo is no longer her fault; it is yours.

She does not want to be married to you, yet she does not want anyone else to have you, either.

Why would you grant her that much control over you when it was her that moved out?

Was she controlling before she left?

Have you ever pushed a rope? What happens?


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Are her complaints valid?
> 
> Did you neglect her needs? Did her issues take a back seat?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply.

Her complaints are definitely valid. I had withdrawn and in particular this summer things had gotten pretty far off the tracks.

A little background—in 2014 I felt incredibly neglected. She had begun working until 9 or 10 nearly every night and I felt alone in the marriage (quality time is my big thing). It wasn't a cheating scenario, we worked at the same place at the time and I know she just wanted to try to get ahead in her career. However, we were looking into buying a home and starting a family so I was extremely confused. I've always been supportive of her career aspirations, as is she with mine, but things reached a breaking point in February, 2015.

After repeatedly telling her that she needed to be home at a certain time so we could make an appointment to view a home, she showed up at our apartment when we were supposed to be at our appointment. I was angry and hurt, it lead to a fight and she lashed out with hurtful words on our way there while we were stuck in traffic. I just bailed out of the car and walked away. She called and I said that I wanted a divorce (I didn't really, but I was at a loss with what to do in terms of how her actions didn't coincide with her words). She came home and convinced me to get therapy.

We went and at first things were improving. Our issues were being addressed and I felt like we were headed in the right direction. Then she took a new job and got fired 3 weeks into it for reasons that routinely affected our relationship as well (i.e. she's a highly sensitive person who projects her own insecurities on a situation and allows it to control her life at times). Understandably, she felt wrecked (she'd been poached by the company and left a good job for it) and like her world had fallen apart. During the next two months while she was unemployed, I was extremely supportive. As a byproduct, our therapy sessions became centered on her depression over the job loss and feeling like her life and career were ruined.

By the time she got a new job, she immediately brought up wanting to have kids in therapy and needing a timeline. I have to admit, I really wasn't ready to talk about kids. I felt like our therapy hadn't been able to focus on our issues that needed work thanks to the job situation and I panicked a bit. A month after she brought it up, I expressed my doubts about wanting a kid. This stemmed mostly from my upbringing, but also from our problems that I felt needed to be addressed.

In September 2015, we told each other we wanted to stay together but set a deadline of May 2016 (just before our anniversary) for us to reevaluate and for me to decide if I wanted kids. I took this very seriously and talked with everyone I knew that had kids about the experience—the challenges, fears, joys, everything. It was a tough time for us because she desperately wanted kids before thirty and would frequently break down and beg me to have a kid with her right then and there. Each time, I was compassionate but said I really needed to be sure.

May 2016 came around and I was 100%, and still am, that I wanted a child with her. I told her, but she wasn't convinced.

What followed was an extremely bizarre summer, but one which probably sounds familiar to some on these boards. She started spending nights out drinking (something she very rarely did before) and then falling out of communication well past when she said she would be home. In hindsight, I could see that she was suffering and trying to find a way to cope with the issues in our marriage. At the time, it felt like she just wanted a different life.

In mid-August, her work had a summer party on a Friday. This company has a huge drinking and partying culture to the point where people are regularly tipsy while working. The party wasn't far from where I work and she asked me to pick her up at 5pm when it was over. I said I was happy to do it. That day, I texted her at 4:30pm for the address of the hotel and got nothing back. 5, 5:30, 6 came and went and I tried calling several times but it just went to voicemail. I texted that I was heading home, that I hoped she was okay and to please get in touch with me as soon as she could.

At 7:45pm, she called and said that her co-worker and good friend had gotten extremely drunk and she'd needed to make sure she got home okay. After taking her home, she realized that she'd left her phone at the hotel and that it was dead. Once she got in her car, she plugged it in to charge and immediately called once it came back on. I told her that we needed to have a talk when she got home.

I confronted her about the party and the other times this past summer she'd dropped out of communication. One time she had said she would be home at 2am and ended up coming back at 5am and had ignored several texts. I was calm at first and asked if anything was going on that I should know about and she said no. I asked why she couldn't send a simple text letting me know that she was okay and was going to be out later, and she got extremely defensive and accused me of not wanting to let her hang out with her friends. I got angry and said that it was more about feeling disrespected because it's scary that the person you love the most falls out of contact while out drinking and partying. She agreed that it would terrify her if I did the same thing and promised to work on it in the future. I reassured her that I was really happy she had friends to go out with, but that I just needed to be kept in the loop if plans changed.

The next day she admitted that something had happened at the party. The COO had drunkenly come up to her and her friend, grabbed my wife by the arm and told her, "I had a dream about you two. It was good." From there he tried twice to get her and her friend to join him at a bar after the party. I thanked her for telling me and said that she should go to HR on Monday and tell them what happened. She agreed but said she wanted to talk to her friend about it before bringing her into it. I said I understood but the she needed to say something or the creep would feel like his actions had been justified and it would enable him further. I added that I realized it was a tough predicament and I'd support her no matter how she handled it, but that this was the exact thing I was afraid might be happening when she fell out of contact.

The next two weeks and a few days were honestly great. We spent a lot of time together, had several date nights, went together to her friend's birthday party and a concert. Two days after the concert, and the week I was going to tell her about a trip I'd planned to Japan for us where we could start trying for a baby, she told me the relationship needed to end and she wanted a divorce. Talk about bad timing. :frown2:

My original post includes what happened after. I've given her the documents she requested and so now it's just a matter of when she'll actually file.

So yes, I did make mistakes, and so did she. I still love her though and want to work on things. However, I do feel that ship has probably long left the port and I'm trying to put my life back together. Huge urge to contact her today, but I'm not sure what it would do other than likely bring me more rejection.

My plan now is to give her until the first week of January to file and if she hasn't by that date, I'll file for a trail separation just so something legal is on the books. Thanks again for everyone's advice and insight. It's greatly appreciated.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

When someone dumps you the worst thing you can do is be available at their beck and call.

Your actions tell her she is worth more than you and you'll be there for her no matter what she does.

You can't control or make her do anything but at the same time you don't need to be her "puppet on a string".

Check her phone bill. Online

Not uncommon when you get accused of seeing someone it's a projection from what they're doing.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm going to jump to a conclusion here, OP. Your wife is seeing someone else. She is not sure about this other person. That is why she is still in contact with you. Plan B, you know. She enjoys the emotional volleyball, it is an ego boost of some sort. She reels you in by making herself some victim of some sort, you bite, she pulls away. The ego-boost is knowing she has you by the nuts.

But she shows the classic signs of having found someone else. The confusing signals and general questioning behaviour point to that.

This hits home for me because someone close to me went through a similar situation. Your name wouldn't happen to be Alex by any chance?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The rope broke.

You lost your prize heifer.

You put off fixing the fence.

Now she is out of the stockade heading for the bulls down the road.

Mend the fence, get a new heifer. Grow new grass for this one.

Keep this grass greener than your neighbors. 

Love hurts..until you rub the pain away.

What follows is numbness, then a new readiness, that will try to lift your heavy, burdened spirit, again.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Marc878 said:


> When someone dumps you the worst thing you can do is be available at their beck and call.
> 
> Your actions tell her she is worth more than you and you'll be there for her no matter what she does.
> 
> ...


Yes, sorry to say it, but you did everything WRONG. 

Honestly though, even if you had gone about this the right way, I think she was done to the point it would not have made a difference. Also, I too think she is seeing someone else.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I don't believe for a moment that you got the truth about the times she fell off the radar. 

She has been cheating for some time.

You would do well to accept that fact.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> I'm going to jump to a conclusion here, OP. Your wife is seeing someone else. She is not sure about this other person. That is why she is still in contact with you. Plan B, you know. She enjoys the emotional volleyball, it is an ego boost of some sort. She reels you in by making herself some victim of some sort, you bite, she pulls away. The ego-boost is knowing she has you by the nuts.
> 
> But she shows the classic signs of having found someone else. The confusing signals and general questioning behaviour point to that.
> 
> This hits home for me because someone close to me went through a similar situation. Your name wouldn't happen to be Alex by any chance?


I tend to agree with you. I don't think she'd started seeing someone prior to our separation, but urges were probably bubbling up. And in the last month or so, I do think something has started or the at the very least the possibility arose and that coincided with her renewed vigor for getting what she needed for the divorce.

You are completely spot on about the victim card. It was a frequent issue in our relationship and her professional life as well. It's tough for her knowing that she's the one doing this and so she creates pathways for the old familiar feeling of being a victim is left intact. It's been eye-opening to talk to friends and hear that they saw the same pattern of behavior.

My name is not Alex, but oddly enough the person I suspect she may have started something with is named Alex and he went through a divorce last year! He's a coworker that started at her work the same month we separated. My hunch is that something is going on there but probably won't be a full go until she moves forward with our divorce.

I caved and sent her a quick note a couple of days ago just to say I was thinking about her and hoped she was doing well. At the end of all this, I want her to remember me fondly.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You should leave this marriage, and go no contact. She will never leave you alone then, but you need to stay strong. Heal, spend some time enjoying life by yourself again, and then a GOOD relationship will come your way. This is not a good person nor a good relationship. Sounds like she wants to keep you on a shelf, dating guys and having you not move on.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> You should leave this marriage, and go no contact. She will never leave you alone then, but you need to stay strong. Heal, spend some time enjoying life by yourself again, and then a GOOD relationship will come your way. This is not a good person nor a good relationship. Sounds like she wants to keep you on a shelf, dating guys and having you not move on.


I definitely agree with the no contact. I had been doing really well with that until this weekend, but I just caved to emotion.

She is a good person and in our relationship she was committed and completely in love. She provided me with more than I could ever possibly articulate. I don't think she's just keeping me on a shelf—I think our relationship is incredibly hard for her to let go of because of how much it has meant to her. She's actually been good about not initiating contact since she asked who I was with a couple of weeks ago. The only time she's contacted me is for something about the divorce.

I do think that during the last three months a lot of her worst tendencies have cropped up, but that's somewhat expected given the volatility of the situation. She needs validation from me even with a divorce I don't want and her need to be the victim has made this way harder than it probably could have been.

Still, I don't want to demonize her and I know I played a big role in this as well. It really sucks—I feel for everyone else on these boards going through something similar.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

She contacted me last night via text to say her paperwork had come in the mail and that she would try to file Thursday before her work, but that she was swamped and wasn't sure if it would happen. I was destroyed, but responded that while I didn't feel the same way I respected her decision and would be as helpful as I could be. I went on to text that there was no pressure on her to get it done this week if work was too busy.

She responded with a thank you and said that she was feeling really overwhelmed by it all and that it might be Monday before she can get to it. Then she really got me by texting that she'd been thinking about me a lot because my birthday is coming up. She said she understood that I wanted limited contact, but asked if it was okay for her to get in touch on my birthday. I contemplated and finally responded, "Of course, you know how I feel about you."

I went on to say that I hoped her life was going well and she said it was okay, just a lot of work and time with our cat. Then she asked about the cat I kept and we chatted about them for a bit before I told her that I truly hoped she was happier and she responded "ditto"—a word we used when we first started dating and had kept ever since :frown2:

I told her I wasn't by a long shot but that if this is what she truly wants I would respect it and I'd be there for her if something serious popped up. She responded that she understood and I told her I would always love her.

So, I guess that's it or at the very least a divorce will be filed. Her birthday is Christmas day so I'll have a strong urge to contact her then, but I should probably just resist. I don't know, I'm confused and heartbroken.

Thanks again for all the support. I just wish she'd given us another shot with therapy. I have my faults, but I look back and we spent no less than 3-4 nights together on dates during the entirety of our relationship. I always made time to listen to her insecurities and try to help and genuinely wanted a future and family with her. The more I think about it, the more I think she built up the friendship I had with my coworker into something more than it was and that became a huge catalyst for this decision.

Once papers have been filed, what's the experience like? How much contact have you other posters had with STBX once it gets rolling? Are there are a lot of times where contact is necessary for the divorce proceedings or is it mostly just the occasional document request. I still love her but have made it clear that contact beyond emergencies, something for the divorce or possible reconciliation is off the table. I could of course cave, but I want to be strong on that as possible.

Lastly, any advice in terms of helping with the transition. For the past three months, she's been pretty much all I think about despite going out more than years and trying to stay busy. I don't want that to continue to think about her as much but I'm not sure how to move past that.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If you continue to meet her emotional needs while she does the push/pull dynamic, you are enabling her to use you.

Why on earth would she alter the current limbo when she is getting what she needs from you by your continued engagement? Can you say the same? Nope.

The fact that you would accept limbo just to hold on to some sliver of hope speaks volumes about you.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

What do you constitute an emergency?

Compassion for others should not come without compassion for self... within that is how one moves forward.

That path was then... this path is now, and now is how you need to take care of yourself first.

Destroyed... I hear that word a lot.

Did she really put an end to your existence?


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

golfpanther said:


> I do think that during the last three months a lot of her worst tendencies have cropped up, but that's somewhat expected given the volatility of the situation. She needs validation from me even with a divorce I don't want and her need to be the victim has made this way harder than it probably could have been.
> 
> Still, I don't want to demonize her and I know I played a big role in this as well. It really sucks—I feel for everyone else on these boards going through something similar.



Divorce is going through.
She's done.

You no longer are required to support her.

I don't know who the first person who said this, but they are a genius:

*NOT MY CIRCUS*

*NOT MY MONKEYS*



Time for you to live by that phrase in all things that deal with her.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

golfpanther said:


> Lastly, any advice in terms of helping with the transition. For the past three months, she's been pretty much all I think about despite going out more than years and trying to stay busy. I don't want that to continue to think about her as much but I'm not sure how to move past that.


Stop offering to be there for her, stop telling her you wish it wasn't this way, stop expressing your feelings to her, don't talk to her about anything unless it's absolutely necessary, primarily financial, divorce related or the cat. Better yet one of you takes the cat if you haven't figured that one out already, to have some sort of "custody and visitation" schedule for a pet is completely ridiculous and borders on the bizarre and keeps the two parties connected when they don't need to be.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

browser said:


> Stop offering to be there for her, stop telling her you wish it wasn't this way, stop expressing your feelings to her, don't talk to her about anything unless it's absolutely necessary, primarily financial, divorce related or the cat.


THIS!!! You are making yourself look pathetic... JUST STOP!


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

browser said:


> Stop offering to be there for her, stop telling her you wish it wasn't this way, stop expressing your feelings to her, don't talk to her about anything unless it's absolutely necessary, primarily financial, divorce related or the cat. Better yet one of you takes the cat if you haven't figured that one out already, to have some sort of "custody and visitation" schedule for a pet is completely ridiculous and borders on the bizarre and keeps the two parties connected when they don't need to be.


I completely agree. I actually haven't initiated contact in some time, but I do respond when she reaches out so I'll just need to stop that as well. We decided the cat issue amicably and didn't try to set up any kind of visitation thing. That is bizarre if people actually do that.

Yesterday was my birthday and she texted to wish me a happy one, tell me she was thinking about me and hoped it was a good one. It hurt to see that, but I didn't respond.

What I wasn't prepared for was an email from her grandmother wishing me happy birthday. She clearly thinks her and I are still together and I'm not sure how to handle it—I love her grandmother and know it will kill her to find out we're getting a divorce. I want to respond because she'll be hurt and confused if I don't, but at the same time I'm not sure it's my place (or responsibility) to be the one to break the news.

My STBXW will see her over the holidays and have to tell her then. I'm just pissed about it. Her grandmother is going to be embarrassed, confused, hurt and in pain over this and she doesn't deserve that. What do you all think? Should I just respond with a simple thank you? Should I do that and tell her I won't be seeing over Christmas because we're getting a divorce? Or should I just ignore it and let my STBXW deal with the fallout? It would be so much easier if I didn't love her grandmother, but I do and want to think about her feelings because I do care and she has nothing to do with this.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Just tell her thank your for the birthday wish.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

It sounds like you're finally getting your act together. No more telling her you wished something could be different, no more responding to non-divorce crap.

And if she doesn't file for divorce, you should... and NOT that "trial separation"crap you mentioned. What did you expect to be gained from filing for a trial separation? That she'd change her mind? She hasn't yet. Either jump in 100% for divorce or keep getting whip lashed by her.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

golfpanther said:


> What I wasn't prepared for was an email from her grandmother wishing me happy birthday. She clearly thinks her and I are still together and I'm not sure how to handle it—I love her grandmother and know it will kill her to find out we're getting a divorce. I want to respond because she'll be hurt and confused if I don't, but at the same time I'm not sure it's my place (or responsibility) to be the one to break the news.


Do whatever you want without worrying about ruffling any feathers, but when you do it think about the effect it will have on the grandmother, not anyone else, because no one else matters. If you want her to hear the news from you, and you think it's better, or no worse coming from you then go ahead and tell her.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

browser said:


> Do whatever you want without worrying about ruffling any feathers, but when you do it think about the effect it will have on the grandmother, not anyone else, because no one else matters. If you want her to hear the news from you, and you think it's better, or no worse coming from you then go ahead and tell her.


Great advice. I decided to just simply tell her thank you and that I hoped she was doing well. It's not my responsibility to let her know and I think it would have made it harder on her coming from me through an email.

Holidays are brutal for this all to be really moving forward. 

Another request for advice—my STBXW has a history of bulimia and friends that have seen her have all remarked about how skinny she is. Pictures on social media corroborate this and she told me over the summer that had made herself throw up for the first time in years.

Now, I know the advice is probably going to be, "not your problem anymore," and if that's what any of you think is best then I respect that. However, despite all my frustrations about this, I still do care and don't want to see this return to destructive behaviors. My question is, should I reach out to someone I trust that she interacts with regularly and ask them to make sure she's okay and talk to her about it?


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

golfpanther said:


> My question is, should I reach out to someone I trust that she interacts with regularly and ask them to make sure she's okay and talk to her about it?


I've seen my ex go downhill over the years since the divorce, through the grapevine, posts she makes on the pages of mutual friends, things I hear from my daughter. I never once considered trying to get someone to help her, and I have absolutely no interest in doing so. Why? Because she's just someone that I used to know.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> Great advice. I decided to just simply tell her thank you and that I hoped she was doing well. It's not my responsibility to let her know and I think it would have made it harder on her coming from me through an email.
> 
> Holidays are brutal for this all to be really moving forward.
> 
> ...


Google "knight in shining armor".

You need to understand your tendencies.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

How are you holding up Golfpanther?


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Absurdist said:


> How are you holding up Golfpanther?


Tough day. Found out that she filed on Dec. 21st via the court's website. This was a long time coming, but it still stings and hurts.

It was a weird past couple of weeks with the most communication we've had in some time. She actually texted me the night before filing, "I'm sorry to bug you but I have something to tell you. It's random." I didn't respond and she didn't end up sending anything else. I guess she was hoping I'd respond and give my blessing for the contact.

She's back home for the holidays with her family now and I'm spending it with friends. It's incredibly hard, but I guess I'm managing. I've definitely been going through the whole spectrum of emotions today.

Thanks for asking. I know this is going to be bad for a while, but at last I have some definitiveness now.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> Tough day. Found out that she filed on Dec. 21st via the court's website. This was a long time coming, but it still stings and hurts.
> 
> It was a weird past couple of weeks with the most communication we've had in some time. She actually texted me the night before filing, "I'm sorry to bug you but I have something to tell you. It's random." I didn't respond and she didn't end up sending anything else. I guess she was hoping I'd respond and give my blessing for the contact.
> 
> ...


Golfpanther - in another thread you said you sent your STBX a Christmas/Birthday email with a gift a songs. You need to stop this my friend. It keeps you in soul sucking limbo and retards your healing. I have been a mentor to many a young man who have walked in your shoes. The ones that healed the fastest and went on with their lives are the ones that made a clean break. They kept all communications to business only.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Absurdist said:


> Golfpanther - in another thread you said you sent your STBX a Christmas/Birthday email with a gift a songs. You need to stop this my friend. It keeps you in soul sucking limbo and retards your healing. I have been a mentor to many a young man who have walked in your shoes. The ones that healed the fastest and went on with their lives are the ones that made a clean break. They kept all communications to business only.


Yes, I did do that and it was probably a bad choice. I have mixed feelings about my decision. On one hand, I had planned to do this prior to finding out about the filing as a way of showing I still care, while still respecting her wishes. On the other hand... yeah, it created as much emotional damage as any positive that came out of it.

No communication since and I hadn't initiated or talked about anything outside the divorce since... I'm not even sure when. The day after Thanksgiving I believe.

Thanks for your concern. You're right, every time I send anything to her that isn't business is a retardation of the healing process. I got back into my hometown today and it's been really, really tough facing the reality that it's now in the court system. Somewhere in there is a bit of release, but I can't quite pluck away enough of the layers of sadness and loss to get there fully.

I'm not going to initiate any further contact from this point on and only respond when she asks about setting up a time and place where I can be served my respondent forms. Really though, thanks, it's been incredibly helpful to have this space as a sounding board for my thoughts.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

So since my probably misguided decision to contact her on her birthday/Christmas, my STBXW and I have had no contact.

One thing that really bothers me is that the day she got back and yesterday, she used her spousal membership at the yoga studio for whom I work as a producer and editor. Before she filed, I knew she was taking classes for free because of my employment but I was okay with it. Now, I'm thinking it's just tacky and wrong. I could go to HR and get her cut off, but that could lead to unwanted and negative interactions between her and me and I really don't want that.

My question is, how long should I wait for her to set up a time and place I can meet with her process server before I initiate that conversation? I won't lie, I'm still a wreck over this and trying to come to some sort of acceptance so doing so would be really hard for me at this time. I was thinking I'd wait until the middle of next week and then write to her with a time and place of my own choosing along with telling her that we need to discuss separating the ways in which we're still entwined (health insurance, car insurance, cellphone plan etc.).

Do you all think that's a reasonable amount of time? I know that a lot you are likely to say, "Just write her this second!", but I'm honestly not in best the frame of mind to do that right now (it's been less than a week since I found out). I also want to be as friendly and understanding as possible so I can look back at how I handled this with pride.

Ugh, I know this will feel better one day but I wish it would come ASAP.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You're being very kind, friendly and generous to someone who's dumping you. Maybe that's part of what's gotten you where you are.

Do you think she respects that?

IMO you should be civil and very short.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Your timeframe is good. Considering using the services of a mediator who will facilitate the process and decrease the amount of communication you need to have with your ex. 

If she's not costing you anything by using her gym membership then let it be until the divorce is final. 

No contact or communication about anything not directly related to the divorce.

Your attitude should be one of detached indifference.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

browser said:


> Your timeframe is good. Considering using the services of a mediator who will facilitate the process and decrease the amount of communication you need to have with your ex.
> 
> If she's not costing you anything by using her gym membership then let it be until the divorce is final.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice as always.

I'm surprised that you said I should just let the membership continue. I figured everyone would say cut that off immediately. But I think I agree with you. It would only lead to some form of contact/hurt feelings that would unnecessarily make this harder. It does really sting that she thinks it's okay to have that perk that's entirely dependent on us being married even after she filed. :frown2:

I'll look into a mediator, but I think I'll be okay working out the details with her. In reality, contact only needs to happen three times for the divorce from here on out. I think I can handle that.

I'm working on being detached, but it is difficult and longing and reminders of my love for her pop up at unexpected times. I probably need to move somewhere new in the city to get away from the constant reminders.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> I don't believe for a moment that you got the truth about the times she fell off the radar.
> 
> She has been cheating for some time.
> 
> You would do well to accept that fact.


Please read gthe above again and know that you need to stay NC with her. Married women who are unhappy and contemplating separation or divorce do not go out partying and disappear on a fregular basis if no other man is involved. Her explanations are silly and not believable unless you were in denial. 

The back and forth is probably because her boyfriend is married and she knew he would not leave his wife and family. So on and off she was trying to stall the process while she was tryin g to figure out what to do. My bet is she already has a boyfriend and you will eventually find that out.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Please read gthe above again and know that you need to stay NC with her. Married women who are unhappy and contemplating separation or divorce do not go out partying and disappear on a fregular basis if no other man is involved. Her explanations are silly and not believable unless you were in denial.
> 
> The back and forth is probably because her boyfriend is married and she knew he would not leave his wife and family. So on and off she was trying to stall the process while she was tryin g to figure out what to do. My bet is she already has a boyfriend and you will eventually find that out.


Thanks for taking the time to reply. Trust me, I've thought a lot about this and I'm prepared for the worst should it ever come out. There actually is a married man she has a close relationship with who is also a coworker and it's entirely possible that at least an emotional affair sprung out of that.

Interestingly (and I'm not sure if I've posted this before), when she finally did reach out to a mutual friend she claimed that she was ready to file the week after leaving but that I was dragging my feet. While it's true I protested and urged her to reconsider, there was nothing stopping her from requesting the information she needed immediately and she certainly didn't need to beat me up with emotionally damaging texts, pictures and calls. So yeah, I think you might be right that she was stalling to give herself time to figure out what she wanted to do, regardless if there was another man involved or not, but that would add to the explanation for sure. It's funny how people can write a narrative that works for them even if there is ample of evidence from their own behavior that it's not reality.

In the end, none of this matters as long as the divorce progresses. I'm not sure if it would be better to know or not if there had been infidelity. It would provide greater context for her decision but it would also be ripping off the band-aid of whatever healing I'd done up to that point.

Hope everyone has a good New Year's.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

What does a producer and editor of a yoga studio even do? WTF?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Tell me this golf can she show up with the other guy as a guest at this gym? If that is the case then the hell with that I would shut it down yesterday....it's one thing yo be nice still another to be a freaking doormat.


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## notsohappybutnotsosure (Dec 7, 2016)

Hey GP.... just be thankful you never agreed to children... could be a lot worse.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Absurdist said:


> What does a producer and editor of a yoga studio even do? WTF?


Haha, that's a good question and that would seem odd from the outside. They have an online membership site and I produce and edit all the content for it along with marketing videos for the studios.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

notsohappybutnotsosure said:


> Hey GP.... just be thankful you never agreed to children... could be a lot worse.


Yes, many people have reminded me of this fact. I have somewhat mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think if I'd been ready to have a kid when she wanted then we probably wouldn't be getting a divorce. It was extremely important to her to have kids before 30 and when I failed to deliver that crushed her.

On the other hand, yes, if this was the inevitable outcome then having kids would make this far, far worse.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

golfpanther said:


> Yes, many people have reminded me of this fact. I have somewhat mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think if I'd been ready to have a kid when she wanted then we probably wouldn't be getting a divorce. It was extremely important to her to have kids before 30 and when I failed to deliver that crushed her.
> 
> On the other hand, yes, if this was the inevitable outcome then having kids would make this far, far worse.


Golf,

You have no real idea how much worse if you had young kids. Hang in there. It will get better, and you will eventually find out I think whether or not you want to about another man. She'll have it all over her social media in no time. You should not pain shop. The texts and other nonsense is just stalling as I said.

If by some chance this starts to reverse, there is a whole lot of stuff you need to do to protect yourself. I would not worry about that now.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Golf,
> 
> You have no real idea how much worse if you had young kids. Hang in there. It will get better, and you will eventually find out I think whether or not you want to about another man. She'll have it all over her social media in no time. You should not pain shop. The texts and other nonsense is just stalling as I said.
> 
> If by some chance this starts to reverse, there is a whole lot of stuff you need to do to protect yourself. I would not worry about that now.



Thanks, I appreciate the advice.

I haven't had any communication with her since Christmas and I doubt we will have any until she tells me when she's going to serve me or I press her for that information.

My gut tells me there isn't another guy at the moment but that she started feeling open and excited by that possibility and that was the sign she needed to end things. Anything is possible of course, but in the end it really doesn't matter as long as we're walking the path we're currently on.

I do wish I could sit down and talk to her just to tell her that I never cheated (100% not physically and I made sure my friendship with my coworker never went into EA territory: there was no flirting, compliments, talking poorly about my wife or our relationship etc.). I feel like that is something we're both going to carry around with us the rest of our lives unless we discuss it openly.

Trying to find NYE plans and that's a big bummer. Hope everyone has a good one.


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## brainaches (Dec 29, 2016)

I'm going to offer my opinion as you helped me. It is just an opinion so don't wager everything on it.
I kicked my ex out of our home before Christmas and have been going back and forth with my communication and what I want. Its a normal part of breaking up. She may have moved out as a way of trying to get you to fight for her. Immature? Maybe but she might have acted quickly and later regretted it. She could hear her biological clock ticking in her ear and looked for answers as to why the baby thing hadn't happened yet, put 2 and 2 together with your co-worker and came up with 5. She might want to start dating again but may be confused with her feelings for you and not be quite ready. If she was serious about dating, she would be looking after herself and not trying to look too thin. As for being out of communication, as a dumper she may not know what to do. She may be doing the no contact thing to an extent (not answering immediately to make you wonder) and before she moved out, she may have done it for the same reason as we ladies are always advised to treat them mean, keep them keen. Theres so much conflicting advice out there, women get told not to fight for a man because they like doing the chasing but what are you to do if its the woman who initiates a break up. She might have felt, at the time, she had good grounds to move out but acted too quickly to think it through.
I'm not saying there might not be someone else buy you have to look at all angles of a situation and you know her better than any of us do. Its something that you may never know but it might be worth doing a little investigating as part of your divorce because it will change things if she is seeing someone.
All that being said, I would carry on with the no contact and just carry on with the divorce. You've already told her you dont want to do it but she's still pushing so you have to go with it. She might also be doing this so you fight, she might think that youre not trying hard enough to stop it but you do need to let it take its course so she doesn't think she's pulling your strings. She might decide at the last minute it isn't what she wants but she may decide she wants to go through with it. The no contact period is giving you both the ability to stop being angry and stop game playing and actually look at what you want to happen objectively. Right now, you have to look at yourself as a single person and concentrate on getting yourself back, as an individual and not part of a couple.it aches like hell but move forward. Any part of you that you feel needs improvement for you, get working on it. Any places you want to visit, visit them. You will be a better person for it. Try not to let yourself be in limbo, it will become clearer further down the line. Just focus on you


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

brainaches said:


> I'm going to offer my opinion as you helped me. It is just an opinion so don't wager everything on it.
> I kicked my ex out of our home before Christmas and have been going back and forth with my communication and what I want. Its a normal part of breaking up. She may have moved out as a way of trying to get you to fight for her. Immature? Maybe but she might have acted quickly and later regretted it. She could hear her biological clock ticking in her ear and looked for answers as to why the baby thing hadn't happened yet, put 2 and 2 together with your co-worker and came up with 5. She might want to start dating again but may be confused with her feelings for you and not be quite ready. If she was serious about dating, she would be looking after herself and not trying to look too thin. As for being out of communication, as a dumper she may not know what to do. She may be doing the no contact thing to an extent (not answering immediately to make you wonder) and before she moved out, she may have done it for the same reason as we ladies are always advised to treat them mean, keep them keen. Theres so much conflicting advice out there, women get told not to fight for a man because they like doing the chasing but what are you to do if its the woman who initiates a break up. She might have felt, at the time, she had good grounds to move out but acted too quickly to think it through.
> I'm not saying there might not be someone else buy you have to look at all angles of a situation and you know her better than any of us do. Its something that you may never know but it might be worth doing a little investigating as part of your divorce because it will change things if she is seeing someone.
> All that being said, I would carry on with the no contact and just carry on with the divorce. You've already told her you dont want to do it but she's still pushing so you have to go with it. She might also be doing this so you fight, she might think that youre not trying hard enough to stop it but you do need to let it take its course so she doesn't think she's pulling your strings. She might decide at the last minute it isn't what she wants but she may decide she wants to go through with it. The no contact period is giving you both the ability to stop being angry and stop game playing and actually look at what you want to happen objectively. Right now, you have to look at yourself as a single person and concentrate on getting yourself back, as an individual and not part of a couple.it aches like hell but move forward. Any part of you that you feel needs improvement for you, get working on it. Any places you want to visit, visit them. You will be a better person for it. Try not to let yourself be in limbo, it will become clearer further down the line. Just focus on you


Thanks so much for the advice!

I think you're 100% right about the baby issue and my friendship with my coworker creating a narrative in her mind as to why the one hadn't happened and why she need to leave. It's why I mentioned in my last post wanting to meet with her at some point to if nothing else let her know that I never wavered on wanting to be with her and being just a friend with my coworker. I hate that part of this narrative is founded on misunderstanding. In hindsight, my failure was not communicating with her about my friend sooner.

I've definitely been trying to focus strictly on me of late. I went out to a dance club with friends on NYE, and while it started out uncomfortable, I was eventually able to just enjoy myself. I've been working out and talking to friends about new career opportunities as well as the possibility of traveling. It's overwhelming at times, but necessary work.

She did reach out to me on New Year's to tell me she hoped it was a good one. After I reciprocated she sent a picture of something she was crocheting with the caption, "Yeah, it's really wild." I'm actually curious to know what you think about it. When she was frequently doing this kind of stuff (pictures of onesies, telling me how lonely and sad she was etc.), I responded with either encouragement that she go out with friends or tried to tell her it didn't have to be that way because we could be together. Sometimes it led to more dialogue and other times she would just stop responding.

My question is, why does she do this kind of stuff? Especially now that she's filed for divorce and knows my pattern of response and how it didn't change anything. Do you think it's to make me feel bad that I'm out and she's home alone? Do you think it's to show me that she didn't leave me to be with someone else? Do you think she got used to me trying to chase her and is missing that now that I'm not exhibiting the old pattern? Is she maybe confused on a holiday and missing what we had an hoping I might have the magic words to reach her? To show me that she's fundamentally the same person she was when she was with me? All of the above? Something else entirely?

This time I simply said that it (the crocheting) looked fun. I know I probably shouldn't have responded at all to her initial contact, but I thought at this point I could wish her a happy holiday and it wouldn't lead to what I consider passive aggressive behavior. She insisted that she wanted to stay friends with me after this (I told her that wasn't possible), but a friend doesn't treat you this way so I'm just confused.

Sorry if this sounds like ranting. I know some of this is just me wanting things to progress logically, but I guess you can't expect that with something so emotionally charged. I think you're dead on about why she dropped out of contact over the summer. She wanted me to chase, show I cared, was worried but then also have the ability to flip it on me by saying I didn't want her to hang out with friends.

Thanks again, your insight on this is greatly valued.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I think you're going about this the wrong way. UNLESS she has been cheating (did you ever check her phone?), she was calling out for attention and proof that you loved her. And you walked away from that, gave her the 180, and proved to her that you didn't. Assuming you want to stay married, I suggest you sit down with her, tell her what you want, and ask her to give you another chance.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

turnera said:


> I think you're going about this the wrong way. UNLESS she has been cheating (did you ever check her phone?), she was calling out for attention and proof that you loved her. And you walked away from that, gave her the 180, and proved to her that you didn't. Assuming you want to stay married, I suggest you sit down with her, tell her what you want, and ask her to give you another chance.


Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've checked her phone. There has been a lot of contact with a married male coworker and while it's possible something happened there, I doubt it. She's friends with his wife as well and considering she spent every major holiday alone, except Christmas with her family, that would be a pretty crappy affair. Although, it's possible it's entirely of the emotional variety. 

On that note, she let me know today that she notarized her paperwork and asked to serve me this week. Interestingly, when I checked the phone records the last couple of days there were a flurry of calls between her and the coworker right before she called a pawn shop yesterday (pawning her ring I would guess) and the notary service today, so she is in some way using his emotional support and guidance to get through this. 

In terms of the 180, I didn't do that at all the first two months. I was constantly texting, chatting and telling her over the phone that I loved her and wanted to make this work. I told her I'd started seeing a therapist the week after she moved out and gave her a very fair plan for how we could work on our marriage. All it got me were pics of onesies and how much she hated seeing that stuff now, texts telling me how lonely she was or just being ignored. I only stopped initiating after sending a heartfelt e-mail and making a grand gesture that got me a text saying she'd started to fill out the divorce paperwork. 

Interestingly, the next two weeks after that, she initiated more than she ever had before, but even then when I asked for a meeting or invited her out Halloween weekend so she wouldn't be alone, she declined or told me she would just end up breaking down in tears if she was around me. Kinda at odds with someone that later said she was ready to file the first week after moving out, but I'm sure she's struggling with this too and it's helpful to form a narrative that protects you and your decision.

The one exception was Christmas/her birthday. As I wrote about on this site, I did send her an email and covers of two songs (I'm a musician) that meant a lot to us. She responded, "Thank you so much for your email. It meant a lot to me."

Was there some magic bullet out there in the ether that could have gotten her to agree to sit down with me and work on this? Probably, but it would have been almost impossible to get all the steps right in order for that to happen. A friend told me that her contacting me might actually increase from this point forward. Do you all agree? My friend thinks she'll do so in order to work extra hard at getting to me to be her friend.

For anyone reading that's been through the entire divorce process, what steps need to be taken after we've both turned in our initial paperwork? I think where I live there is at least one more set of papers that need to be served (the discovery portion). I'm trying to figure out the next steps I want to take in my life, but I want to be available for anything needed for the divorce.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Definitely a rough day but I'm trying my best to hang in there.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Let her coworker's wife know they are carrying on an affair.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

She wants to be friends with you because SHE did you wrong and she knows it. 

This is classic ILYBANILWY. She loves what you were to her. What you represented to her. The rest is all smoke screening.....Gaslighting is the proper term.

She remains fond....of you. But she is not in love with you....anymore. She has a conscience. Her Jimminy Cricket is screaming in her ear. He is telling her that "She done her man wrong". 

She has done you wrong. And she knows it. The bit about your co-worker, the one that you were friendly with? She is using that FIG-ment leaf to cover her own cheating puzzy. 

When you sign the Divorce papers, Box them, wrap them in a Red Flag. Add a note. Tell her that she left a lot of them around. Tell her that "Nice guys do not finish last, fools do. And you are no longer in last place". 

Let her ponder that. Never explain the logic. She will have a lifetime to think on that one. Every time she looks at that paper and the flag. Hopefully, she blushes Red. Hope is thin ice, here....and she lives in Canada, too.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

turnera said:


> Let her coworker's wife know they are carrying on an affair.


Hmm, I guess I could, but what if I'm wrong? What if she's calling his number but getting advice from him and his wife. Plus, I'm not sure what kind of positive outcome it would create.

It's tempting though, to plant that seed and just see what the fallout is. The degree of contact is pretty staggering. Since she moved out she's only really communicated with him. And I mean, a lot. Dialed and received calls going out at all times of the day, 3am, 4am, 5am.

My theory is that he's interested in her beyond emotional support and she's too naive to see it (she was terrible about knowing when guys were interested/hitting on her when we were together). He definitely sent signals like telling her she looked "really good in a bikini" at his birthday party. I don't know, how would I even approach such a thing? Just send her a message on Facebook? Mail her a copy of the phone records? It seems like a zero-sum game.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just tell her that you see concerning signs. Let HER investigate her husband. Chances are, she'll just tell you that she's aware her husband is a cheater and she's decided to accept it, to keep the money flowing.

What matters here is your REAL plan. Leave? Just focus on what gets you the most money in the end. Try to keep her? Expose and fight for the marriage. You have to know what your plan is.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

turnera said:


> Just tell her that you see concerning signs. Let HER investigate her husband. Chances are, she'll just tell you that she's aware her husband is a cheater and she's decided to accept it, to keep the money flowing.
> 
> What matters here is your REAL plan. Leave? Just focus on what gets you the most money in the end. Try to keep her? Expose and fight for the marriage. You have to know what your plan is.


Thanks for the input.

In terms of my plan... we already live apart and have for the past 4 months. I'm not really concerned with fighting over money. I would love to keep her, but at this point... I'm at a loss for what else I could do. I guess I could take a chance that cheating is happening and expose it, but I'm not sure even that would have the desired effect.

You've given me something to think about though. Definitely trying to figure this all out.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

turnera said:


> Just tell her that you see concerning signs. Let HER investigate her husband. Chances are, she'll just tell you that she's aware her husband is a cheater and she's decided to accept it, to keep the money flowing.
> 
> What matters here is your REAL plan. Leave? Just focus on what gets you the most money in the end. Try to keep her? Expose and fight for the marriage. You have to know what your plan is.


I agree with this.

I forgot what movie I saw this in.

Who starred in it.

Ann Turner
Alice Turner 
Abby Turner
Angela Turner
Adelaide Turner
Amelia Turner
Artel Turner


Lana Turner, yes, that's who it was.


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## brainaches (Dec 29, 2016)

Anything your ex does now is for your attention and to see if she still has you on her hook. I wouldn't be messaging any of my friends, male or female, at the time she's messaging her co-worker. And, if I was receiving messages from friends at that time, I would be very ticked off. Maybe speak to his wife and just say "I think its nice that youre both there for her around the clock". That's enough to make her think but I'm not one for thinking you can meddle in somebody else's marriage without solid proof (even if they are doing wrong).
As for the crochet thing at new year, she wants to show you she's not going to any wild parties or anything like that. Might be to restore your faith in her or it might be so you feel sorry for her. She might not even know why she's doing it. Try not to read too much into it. The only way youre going to know if she is genuine is if you do the no contact. She knows she has you there so she's still not being given experience of what its like not to have you there. Next time she reaches out, just write something along the lines of what I did. "I'm sorry but this is too hard for me and I have to start putting me first. For that, I need to respect myself and distance myself from you. You moved out and I don't even know the real reason. I have to start piecing my life back together and as the divorce is a reality, I need to do it without you. I cant be there for you, I haven't got the time or the energy"
After I sent mine, my ex sent me another message asking me why I was so bothered and i think he did it to test if I was going to be true to my word. I did message him back (stupidly and with an essay) thinking "ah, ive got his attention" when really he was just checking if he still had mine). Ive told you that because you probably will get messages from her but unless its about business, dont respond. That's the only way youre going to br able to reflect on things without going crazy. And if she isn't around after the NC period, she was never going to be. Hope this helps. Its easy to help with someone else because emotions aren't involved so you can be objective. I urge you to think about this and remember that NC is trying to help you get to a less emotive state so you can be more objective


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

brainaches said:


> Anything your ex does now is for your attention and to see if she still has you on her hook. I wouldn't be messaging any of my friends, male or female, at the time she's messaging her co-worker. And, if I was receiving messages from friends at that time, I would be very ticked off. Maybe speak to his wife and just say "I think its nice that youre both there for her around the clock". That's enough to make her think but I'm not one for thinking you can meddle in somebody else's marriage without solid proof (even if they are doing wrong).
> As for the crochet thing at new year, she wants to show you she's not going to any wild parties or anything like that. Might be to restore your faith in her or it might be so you feel sorry for her. She might not even know why she's doing it. Try not to read too much into it. The only way youre going to know if she is genuine is if you do the no contact. She knows she has you there so she's still not being given experience of what its like not to have you there. Next time she reaches out, just write something along the lines of what I did. "I'm sorry but this is too hard for me and I have to start putting me first. For that, I need to respect myself and distance myself from you. You moved out and I don't even know the real reason. I have to start piecing my life back together and as the divorce is a reality, I need to do it without you. I cant be there for you, I haven't got the time or the energy"
> After I sent mine, my ex sent me another message asking me why I was so bothered and i think he did it to test if I was going to be true to my word. I did message him back (stupidly and with an essay) thinking "ah, ive got his attention" when really he was just checking if he still had mine). Ive told you that because you probably will get messages from her but unless its about business, dont respond. That's the only way youre going to br able to reflect on things without going crazy. And if she isn't around after the NC period, she was never going to be. Hope this helps. Its easy to help with someone else because emotions aren't involved so you can be objective. I urge you to think about this and remember that NC is trying to help you get to a less emotive state so you can be more objective


Wonderful advice indeed.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the crocheting—things like that (and reaching out on Halloween) were to show me that she's still the same person she's always been and probably a little bit to make me feel bad that it's her life now. 

I thought about the longest we've gone with absolutely no contact up to this point and it was around 9 days. That's really nothing when I think about it, even though it felt like an eternity. We really haven't given ourselves the chance to see what life is like without one another. I talked with my therapist last night and basically said that after I sign off on the divorce I'm going to give it a solid month without anything. At that point, it's like you said; either she'll reach out to me or she never will.

Your text is spot on and I'll likely use something along those lines the next time she reaches out about something other than business. You're right, it's all about checking in to see if my attention is still firmly under her control and sadly, it has been up to this point.

I really don't know what to make of the contact with the married coworker. It's possible it's something more than friendship or shop talk (they're both graphic designers as is his wife), but I don't think that really fits.

Thanks again for your words, they are very helpful.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> Wonderful advice indeed.
> 
> I think you hit the nail on the head about the crocheting—things like that (and reaching out on Halloween) were to show me that she's still the same person she's always been and probably a little bit to make me feel bad that it's her life now.
> 
> ...


golfpanther - you need to understand this. Drama Triangle

Notice that you and your STBXW play all three roles within one exchange. Both of you go from victim to rescuer to persecutor. The only way out is to not play the game. 

Get out of the triangle before you go nuts.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Absurdist said:


> golfpanther - you need to understand this. Drama Triangle
> 
> Notice that you and your STBXW play all three roles within one exchange. Both of you go from victim to rescuer to persecutor. The only way out is to not play the game.
> 
> Get out of the triangle before you go nuts.


Yes, that definitely sounds familiar. The NYE exchange was on the low-end of that kind of thing but it definitely applied. The first two months were fraught with exactly those kind of exchanges, with me almost always playing the role of rescuer and her victim and persecutor. I guess I just don't understand her initiating contact at all at this point for anything other than divorce stuff.

Incidentally, I got a text right after reading your post from her and her friend that will be my process server; it's going down tonight at a coffee shop.

I'm really sad and not looking forward to it, but I guess I didn't have a chance from the start of this at salvaging the relationship. I still feel like there's more to it that I don't know, but now I probably never will.

I'll probably post on here from time to time, and obviously if anything unexpected happens, but it'll probably lessen now. Thanks to everyone that took time out of their life to help me with this up to this point.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Well, I now have my divorce paperwork. It was a surreal experience and not what I expected. Her friend was actually really empathetic and seemed sad about everything. She gave me a big hug, said she was really sorry and asked how I was. When I asked her about my STBXW she said, "She's good, I think... it's tough." 

Going to try to fill out the paperwork quickly and get it back to her so this can just move forward and run its natural course. Feel some relief but mostly just sadness.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

GP, I don't know a single person that has the level of communication you are describing between your STBXW and a "friend", unless they are sleeping together. Once this is divorce is over do yourself a favor and unfriend her on FB, block her number, and erase anything that reminds you of her and move on. You don't need her in your life and will have a much easier time moving on the sooner you cut all contact with her. Divorce is scary because it's a new situation but adjusting is usually pretty quick and you'll be far better off when you aren't focusing any of your energy on a person that doesn't reciprocate your feelings. Good luck to you.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> Well, I now have my divorce paperwork. It was a surreal experience and not what I expected. Her friend was actually really empathetic and seemed sad about everything. She gave me a big hug, said she was really sorry and asked how I was. When I asked her about my STBXW she said, "She's good, I think... it's tough."
> 
> Going to try to fill out the paperwork quickly and get it back to her so this can just move forward and run its natural course. Feel some relief but mostly just sadness.


golfpanther - a process server is someone approved and designated by the courts to serve legal process. So is this "friend" a court approved process server or just a woman running interference for your STBXW? If she is not approved by the court she can't legally serve you with anything. By the way, you can waive service of process.

How much do you have in joint assets or marital property? Is there a lot to negotiate or argue about?


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Absurdist said:


> golfpanther - a process server is someone approved and designated by the courts to serve legal process. So is this "friend" a court approved process server or just a woman running interference for your STBXW? If she is not approved by the court she can't legally serve you with anything. By the way, you can waive service of process.
> 
> How much do you have in joint assets or marital property? Is there a lot to negotiate or argue about?


Thanks for the response Absurdist.

In the state I reside, a process server can be a friend. It can also be someone designated by the courts or via mail that requires a signature. So, this is all legit for my state.

In terms of joint assets and marital property, we decided those things amicably. I don't foresee us arguing about any of that in the future.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> GP, I don't know a single person that has the level of communication you are describing between your STBXW and a "friend", unless they are sleeping together. Once this is divorce is over do yourself a favor and unfriend her on FB, block her number, and erase anything that reminds you of her and move on. You don't need her in your life and will have a much easier time moving on the sooner you cut all contact with her. Divorce is scary because it's a new situation but adjusting is usually pretty quick and you'll be far better off when you aren't focusing any of your energy on a person that doesn't reciprocate your feelings. Good luck to you.


Great advice and much appreciated!

Yes, I do find the level of communication to be very odd. As an example, there were 5 phone calls between 7pm and 8pm (when I was served) last night for a total of about 47 minutes. And then another call near midnight that was 15.

It is odd, but there are other explanations besides an affair. It's possible she's getting advice from both him and his wife and/or they're helping her cope. MY STBXW also does freelance graphic design work and has helped him get work in the past.

All that being said... yeah, if nothing else it's incredibly fishy and I can't imagine the wife knows the extent of the communication. That's a LOT of time to be giving to someone else, even if the wife is aware of it. And he did get super pissed with his wife when she slipped my STBXW drugs at his birthday party and complimented her appearance. Plus, he always seemed uncomfortable around me. It could be that was because she had said negative things about me or it could be because he was (is) pining over her.

It's probably wasted effort to think about it but if it has happened I do feel like it would help me both understand why she did this and move on. Is it wrong for me to wish it ends horribly if there is something happening?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Bananapeel said:


> GP, I don't know a single person that has the level of communication you are describing between your STBXW and a "friend", unless they are sleeping together. Once this is divorce is over do yourself a favor and unfriend her on FB, block her number, and erase anything that reminds you of her and move on. You don't need her in your life and will have a much easier time moving on the sooner you cut all contact with her. Divorce is scary because it's a new situation but adjusting is usually pretty quick and you'll be far better off when you aren't focusing any of your energy on a person that doesn't reciprocate your feelings. Good luck to you.


You can't move on or hope to develope a good reaotionship with someone else until you detach from your Stbxw. Don't attempt the "friends" thing. It'll just keep you down longer.

Once it's over you'll have zero need for contact. It's your best bet.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> You can't move on or hope to develope a good reaotionship with someone else until you detach from your Stbxw. Don't attempt the "friends" thing. It'll just keep you down longer.
> 
> Once it's over you'll have zero need for contact. It's your best bet.


Agree 100%. Although, I'm not really interested in a relationship with anyone right now. I think I just need to figure out what I want from this new reality first and focus on me and my career.

I haven't initiated contact since Christmas and since New Year's, she's only contacted me once about setting up divorce related things. I started filling out the paperwork, which is a tough thing to do, but I plan on finishing it this weekend and mailing it back to her on Monday.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Got a little delayed with the paperwork (a bit more involved than I anticipated), but it's all filled out now. Going to get the part that needs a notary done tomorrow and send it to her.

Just looking for advice... for those of you that have gone through this, how long does it take before the feelings of loss, sadness and anxiety start to fade? And what did you folks do to help in the recovery process?

I've been more outgoing these past 4 months than since before I met my STBXW. It helps some, but coming home to an empty apartment and not having that person there to share my life with is the hardest part.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

How long? About 6-10 months for me.

What makes it easier? Dating other women, getting one's confidence up, getting physical affection, finding one woman in particular that you want to put all your attention into.

Warning: takes time to find the right one. Don't be too quick to fall in love with one. You are very vulnerable for a long time because you're craving intimacy. DO NOT even consider getting married again for at least 2 years after you start regularly dating a woman. My current gf was PERFECT for 16 months, now I'm having to adjust to learning how she REALLY is. A good person, but hard to get along with. You will likely find that dating in your 30's and 40's results in interest from a lot more attractive women than you ever got when you were younger. Dating is a freaking mine field of craziness now. You might love it. You might tire of it quickly. 

All I'm saying is getting your mind on someone else will lessen the pain. I doubt I'll ever get over mine fully. I still regret losing my family and having a far different life than I planned so many years ago.

Good luck


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I actually remember the moment when it faded. It was 6 months post D and I was sitting on the couch and realized that I was no longer unhappy, and had moved to being content with my life. It took a couple more months after that to be back to my old happy self. What I did was worked out a lot (this is a MUST), spent a lot of time talking with friends and family, travelled a bit, got more involved in hobbies and spent more time going to religious services (for the social aspect). I dated a little then too, but I wasn't ready for it and don't think I was that fun to date. 

I'd recommend you spend this time doing whatever it was that you liked to do before you were married. Especially, if you gave something during the marriage. If you're looking to get laid but don't want commitment, you can always try hooking up with your single female friends. It's surprisingly quite easy to do if you just approach them with the idea.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> How long? About 6-10 months for me.
> 
> What makes it easier? Dating other women, getting one's confidence up, getting physical affection, finding one woman in particular that you want to put all your attention into.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. It's been 4 months since my wife moved out and I last saw her... so I'm nearing the low end of your experience.

I can't imagine being with anyone else right now and I think I'd be a terrible date. I'll likely hold off on that kind of thing until I get some things figured out and heal a bit more.

I'll probably be like you in terms of getting over her. I can't imagine getting to a point where I feel nothing for her, but that's probably a good thing.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> I actually remember the moment when it faded. It was 6 months post D and I was sitting on the couch and realized that I was no longer unhappy, and had moved to being content with my life. It took a couple more months after that to be back to my old happy self. What I did was worked out a lot (this is a MUST), spent a lot of time talking with friends and family, travelled a bit, got more involved in hobbies and spent more time going to religious services (for the social aspect). I dated a little then too, but I wasn't ready for it and don't think I was that fun to date.
> 
> I'd recommend you spend this time doing whatever it was that you liked to do before you were married. Especially, if you gave something during the marriage. If you're looking to get laid but don't want commitment, you can always try hooking up with your single female friends. It's surprisingly quite easy to do if you just approach them with the idea.


Six months seems like a pretty good baseline. I'm still waiting for that "aha" moment to come but perhaps it'll be just a bit longer.

Working out sounds good and I've done a bit of that (though, less than before). Travel sounds like a good idea as well. I too think I'd be a terrible date. Just trying to get to know someone sounds exhausting and I'd probably endlessly compare the person to my STBXW.

Is zero commitment sex actually possible? Sorry, I probably sound naive, but I spent the past 11 years with one woman with whom it was always more.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Short answer is yes. It is very easy to have zero commitment sex. You just have to be clear about your intentions that you aren't looking for a relationship yet. Also, learn to gauge your prospects and don't waste time on those that aren't promising.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> Short answer is yes. It is very easy to have zero commitment sex. You just have to be clear about your intentions that you aren't looking for a relationship yet. Also, learn to gauge your prospects and don't waste time on those that aren't promising.


Man, I feel so out of touch with this kind of thing. I guess that's to be expected.

STBXW texted today for an update and asked when I thought we should start separating insurance, cellphone plan etc. She said I was on her health insurance until mid-March so I think that's a good time to make a clean break of everything; maybe do some of the other stuff in the interim.

I think the big thing for me with the idea of dating is... can I possibly do better? My STBXW is very pretty, smart, funny etc. At the same time, she has her insecurities that made it tough. It's just weird; I keep looking at other stories on here about what ended marriages and it always seems like there was some big thing (infidelity, abuse etc.) and I just don't feel like we had that. I guess her perspective is different, but it makes a guy nervous about future dating prospects.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

She also has lousy character.

When you look at it through that prism, it will be easy to find better.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

golfpanther said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Her complaints are definitely valid. I had withdrawn and in particular this summer things had gotten pretty far off the tracks...........


I know there are two sides, but you do NOT bring a child into this mess at all. You threatened divorce, she was out partying, she was trying to push her career forward and you two were in therapy. You may have wronged her in other ways, but delaying a child was SMART. Also, don't beat yourself up. Go find some new or restart old hobbies and get out of the house. The pain will lessen and go away if you do not sit around and wallow in it.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Talk with your lawyer about the health insurance. In my state I was required to pay for it for my XWW for six months post divorce. I didn't object since it was covered by my work and didn't cost me anything to keep her added on. 

As far as dating goes, I have a simple rule. I won't date anyone that is not a step above my XWW. The women I date are prettier, smarter, younger, and more fun or I'm not interested. I'm not the type to settle for someone out of insecurity and I'd rather be alone than take a step down. I'd recommend that you just set your standard and stick with it. If you aren't a good enough guy to get the women that you want, then work on yourself first and then you'll have an easy time finding what you want.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> Talk with your lawyer about the health insurance. In my state I was required to pay for it for my XWW for six months post divorce. I didn't object since it was covered by my work and didn't cost me anything to keep her added on.
> 
> As far as dating goes, I have a simple rule. I won't date anyone that is not a step above my XWW. The women I date are prettier, smarter, younger, and more fun or I'm not interested. I'm not the type to settle for someone out of insecurity and I'd rather be alone than take a step down. I'd recommend that you just set your standard and stick with it. If you aren't a good enough guy to get the women that you want, then work on yourself first and then you'll have an easy time finding what you want.


Good tip about the health insurance. Not even sure what my options will be with the changing of the guard here in the US and it not being an open enrollment period at my work.

Interestingly, I had an opportunity last night for a hookup. I'm a pretty good singer and went to a karaoke bar for fun and this woman (very young woman) was all about me after one song. It was a nice ego boost but also a needed check-in to know that I'm not really ready for it yet. Still, she was super attractive and it was nice to know I can still be desirable to a woman.

Thanks for the support everyone.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

If you are looking for the perfect time to move on, there is no such thing. Also don't look for a relationship, but that doesn't mean you can't have a little adult fun. Can you do better than your STBX? The answer is yes, all you have to do is find someone who loves and is committed to you. I get the impression she was a pretty needy person and checked out when she felt you did not have her on a high enough pedestal. Take the time to separate as much as you can now. The health insurance should have been done last fall when you were in an open season, still I would check with HR and see if there is an exception for change of status. The other possibility is, when will the divorce be official? Some states have a year waiting period, if that is the case, then continue until you get to the next open season. 

You need to understand that you are going to be riding these roller coaster of emotions for awhile, so there will be good days and bad days. The less contact, the sooner you separate shared things, the quicker you will be ready to move on with life. Don't follow her facebook, exclude her from your postings. You need to be so busy with your life that you don't have time to think about hers.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

VFW said:


> If you are looking for the perfect time to move on, there is no such thing. Also don't look for a relationship, but that doesn't mean you can't have a little adult fun. Can you do better than your STBX? The answer is yes, all you have to do is find someone who loves and is committed to you. I get the impression she was a pretty needy person and checked out when she felt you did not have her on a high enough pedestal. Take the time to separate as much as you can now. The health insurance should have been done last fall when you were in an open season, still I would check with HR and see if there is an exception for change of status. The other possibility is, when will the divorce be official? Some states have a year waiting period, if that is the case, then continue until you get to the next open season.
> 
> You need to understand that you are going to be riding these roller coaster of emotions for awhile, so there will be good days and bad days. The less contact, the sooner you separate shared things, the quicker you will be ready to move on with life. Don't follow her facebook, exclude her from your postings. You need to be so busy with your life that you don't have time to think about hers.


Yeah, I'm trying to get to the point where I can have adult fun and not feel guilty of think about her. I had a golden opportunity last week, but couldn't quite bring myself to act just yet.

I've looked into the health insurance in relation to a divorce for my state and it seems nothing should change while the divorce is in process. However, in the interest of really moving forward, I might just go along with her mid-March plan depending on if I can acquire insurance at that time.

It's definitely been a rollercoaster. I had a decent weekend (probably the best since she moved out), but there are still long periods of time where I just end up thinking about "what if..." and her. Great call on staying busy with my life as a means to not think about hers.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

On Monday night my STBXW texted me a simple "hi." That was it. I didn't respond and she didn't follow up with anything else since.

What possible reason could she have for doing that? My filled out paperwork should have arrived the next day and she knew that on Monday, so I just don't understand the contact. Was she just lonely? Is she still trying in the vain hope we can be friends?

Ugh, I'm actually doing pretty well all things considered but that definitely threw me for a loop.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> On Monday night my STBXW texted me a simple "hi." That was it. I didn't respond and she didn't follow up with anything else since.
> 
> What possible reason could she have for doing that? My filled out paperwork should have arrived the next day and she knew that on Monday, so I just don't understand the contact. Was she just lonely? Is she still trying in the vain hope we can be friends?
> 
> Ugh, I'm actually doing pretty well all things considered but that definitely threw me for a loop.


Her brain is a big vat of melted jello. You're wasting your brain trying to figure it out. I'm glad you didn't respond.

Get new health insurance, settle the remaining bills/cell phone issues and go on with your life.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

golfpanther said:


> On Monday night my STBXW texted me a simple "hi." That was it. I didn't respond and she didn't follow up with anything else since.
> 
> What possible reason could she have for doing that? My filled out paperwork should have arrived the next day and she knew that on Monday, so I just don't understand the contact. Was she just lonely? Is she still trying in the vain hope we can be friends?
> 
> Ugh, I'm actually doing pretty well all things considered but that definitely threw me for a loop.


It's good you didn't text back. She was fishing is all, seeing if you'd respond and how you'd respond. Don't let it throw you for a loop, that's what she wants, you thinking about her/situation.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You don't want to be divorced but you have no interest in finding out if she is having an affair with her friend? From the times she's in contact with him she obviously is in at least an EA. Your reaction to that is telling me you don't really want her back.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

honcho said:


> It's good you didn't text back. She was fishing is all, seeing if you'd respond and how you'd respond. Don't let it throw you for a loop, that's what she wants, you thinking about her/situation.


I guess I just don't get fishing for a response at this point. She's been clear that she wants this and I've been clear that I can't be friends with her if this continues. It's just such a selfish thing to do—to make me think about her and wonder.



Chaparral said:


> You don't want to be divorced but you have no interest in finding out if she is having an affair with her friend? From the times she's in contact with him she obviously is in at least an EA. Your reaction to that is telling me you don't really want her back.


Yes, I can't imagine anyone talking to her that much without it being based at least on emotional attachment. Do I want her back at this point... yes, but I'm trying to focus on myself and not get caught up in whatever it is she has going on with him or anyone else. I guess I just don't see how exposing whatever it is would do anything for me anyway.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

golfpanther said:


> I guess I just don't get fishing for a response at this point. She's been clear that she wants this and I've been clear that I can't be friends with her if this continues. It's just such a selfish thing to do—to make me think about her and wonder.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I can't imagine anyone talking to her that much without it being based at least on emotional attachment. Do I want her back at this point... yes, but I'm trying to focus on myself and not get caught up in whatever it is she has going on with him or anyone else. I guess I just don't see how exposing whatever it is would do anything for me anyway.


Have you been reading threads in the infidelity section? The purpose of investigating and exposure is to get out of infidelity. The purpose of getting out of infidelity is to reconcile or divorce.

I am not suggesting divorce is wrong when infidelity is involved but I would definitely want to know if my wife was having an affair with a friend.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> Have you been reading threads in the infidelity section? The purpose of investigating and exposure is to get out of infidelity. The purpose of getting out of infidelity is to reconcile or divorce.
> 
> I am not suggesting divorce is wrong when infidelity is involved but I would definitely want to know if my wife was having an affair with a friend.


Yeah, I understand you; great points.

I would like to expose it if it's happening, but there's always the potential that I'm wrong. I think that's what worries me.

Incidentally, she texted me once again last night with a simple "hi." It's fishing, I get that now (thanks Honcho for pointing it out before). I'll probably need to just tell her that I'm okay and to please only text or call me if it's something about the divorce in order for that to stop. Even then, I've said that before and it doesn't stop her. Maybe ignoring is the best way to go.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

She's fishing and that will continue for a time. No response required and never answer her phone calls.

You should have her blocked on everything else . Once the divorce is final get a new phone number or block her on that too.

You'll be glad once you've moved on and detached completely


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you need to ignore her. No response necessary. 

As to why she's doing that, perhaps she's decided you're Plan B and she needs to keep you hooked on the line until she makes up her mind which way to go. There are people who continue to try to reel back in their ex-spouse long after the divorce (years even) whenever there's uncertainty in their lives. They need to know there's a fall-back for them. Don't be that for her. Move on.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Openminded said:


> Yes, you need to ignore her. No response necessary.
> 
> As to why she's doing that, perhaps she's decided you're Plan B and she needs to keep you hooked on the line until she makes up her mind which way to go. There are people who continue to try to reel back in their ex-spouse long after the divorce (years even) whenever there's uncertainty in their lives. They need to know there's a fall-back for them. Don't be that for her. Move on.


Yeah, it sure seems that I might be plan B. She called me 6 times in a row last night. I didn't pick up a single time and she didn't leave a message. Not sure what to make of it.

I'm doing my best to focus on my career and keeping myself busy. It's been going pretty well, but those calls definitely threw me. I guess I'll just have to expect this kind of thing for a while.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

stay strong. GP stay strong....i smell the "friend zone" and your dead in the water if you land there...you are not there to support her and help her get over you and on too someone else.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

golfpanther said:


> Yeah, it sure seems that I might be plan B. She called me 6 times in a row last night. I didn't pick up a single time and she didn't leave a message. Not sure what to make of it.
> 
> I'm doing my best to focus on my career and keeping myself busy. It's been going pretty well, but those calls definitely threw me. I guess I'll just have to expect this kind of thing for a while.


Part of the allure of cheating or even leaving someone, sometimes, is to know that the person you've hurt still wants you.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Xenote said:


> stay strong. GP stay strong....i smell the "friend zone" and your dead in the water if you land there...you are not there to support her and help her get over you and on too someone else.


I think you're right.

But man, this crap is tough to deal with. She texted me Saturday night, then again last night and then proceeded to call me four times with a follow up text (after I didn't answer) that said, "Please call me."

I don't really know what to do. If it were serious or divorce related she would have just come out and said what was going on or what she needed as she has in the past. Do I just ignore her? Send a short, terse email saying something to the effect of, "Papers are filed, so if this isn't about the divorce then you need to please respect my wishes to not have contact."

I just stupidly assumed that she wouldn't do this, that some thread of respect or care for me might still exist and she would listen when I said we couldn't be friends. I guess I was wrong.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

golfpanther said:


> I think you're right.
> 
> But man, this crap is tough to deal with. She texted me Saturday night, then again last night and then proceeded to call me four times with a follow up text (after I didn't answer) that said, "Please call me."
> 
> ...


My suggestion would be to do the above. That way you have stated your boundary, so she will have no excuse to cross it.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

GP,

i know i will get yelled out for this one, and i realize i am generalizing so let me make this specific to your situation...i suspect that your ex, like the bad boy type (think charlie sheen), but she probably wants the nice guy (you) to run too when she is get rejected by the bad boy....


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

She texted again today but this time to say she wanted to talk about dividing up the car and health insurance and cellphone plans. I find this hilarious/infuriating because we had this conversation a month ago! She said I was scheduled to go off the health insurance in mid-March and I said that it made sense to keep things the same until then. A clear line of demarcation.

Now, after two weeks of sending texts that say "hi" or questioning why I look at her Instagrams but won't respond to those texts and calling me repeatedly on two occasions, she suddenly claims that she wants to talk about something we already discussed.

I told her about how in our state health insurance is technically supposed to stay on for 6 months after the divorce is final, but that I'd waive that if she wants and take her off the car insurance whenever she's ready. She responded that we can keep everything as is and that she assumed I just wanted to be done. Like, WTF is this crap???

I've given her total control over the entire situation and agreed to do these final steps whenever she needed/wanted. And somehow, I'm the guy that's wanted to be 'done?'

This feels like just another manipulation. At any point in the past two weeks she could have come out and said she wanted to talk about changing these things (despite us having already discussed it) and gotten a swift response. She knows this because every time she's been direct about needing something for the divorce, I've responded immediately; true to my word.

Ugh, this is just baffling to me at this point. Is this just her being dishonest and using the illusion of needing to discuss these matters just so she can have some form of contact with me? I feel like she's now using the divorce as a means to keep me on the hook in terms of communication, which is really messed up.

I'm getting my own cellphone plan this weekend. It sucks with the health insurance because I'm not sure I can even get my own at this point in the calendar year so I'd prefer to just stay insured during this, but I don't want it serving as an open invitation for contact either. Any advice is much appreciated.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

golfpanther said:


> She texted again today but this time to say she wanted to talk about dividing up the car and health insurance and cellphone plans. I find this hilarious/infuriating because we had this conversation a month ago! She said I was scheduled to go off the health insurance in mid-March and I said that it made sense to keep things the same until then. A clear line of demarcation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Don't drop the health insurance. After the divorce you can figure it out. You can even stay with same plan via cobra. It's expensive but better than no insurance

Btw, stop giving her total control and you won't be complaining she is manipulating you.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

"we had this conversation on (date)." 
"the plan hasn't changed since then. "
"there's no further need to discuss this."


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Don't drop the health insurance. After the divorce you can figure it out. You can even stay with same plan via cobra. It's expensive but better than no insurance
> 
> Btw, stop giving her total control and you won't be complaining she is manipulating you.


Good advice. I guess I don't know how to not give her some of the control. I'm on her health insurance and I want this to be as uncontentious as possible. But yeah, you're right, I should just take control of what I can and not factor in her feelings or wants at all unless it's absolutely necessary.



Satya said:


> "we had this conversation on (date)."
> "the plan hasn't changed since then. "
> "there's no further need to discuss this."


Yeah, I've drafted an email that basically says this exactly.

Today is by far the worst day I've had with this in a while. I need to figure out something I can do to take my mind off it but I'm not sure what that is.

I was doing so much better prior to the past two weeks. But her texts and now claiming we need to talk about this again... she knows exactly how to mess me up. I just don't get it. I'm a good person and even if things didn't work out I would have thought she could have handled this with professionalism and respect.

Is this just how these things go? Even after we sort this out should I expect efforts by her to talk to me? And if so, how do I stop it? Do I just have to become an a$$ about it in order for it to stop? Is that what she wants—for me to become the bad guy?

It's affecting me in other ways now too. I had a meeting yesterday about something I've written and was so frazzled that I think I signed an unfair agreement. Divorce... wow does it suck.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

You are divorcing. What with the uncontentious crap?

Jeez. She is the one that wants the divorce and you are worried she might think you are the bad guy? Wth!


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> You are divorcing. What with the uncontentious crap?
> 
> Jeez. She is the one that wants the divorce and you are worried she might think you are the bad guy? Wth!


It's more selfish than I'm probably getting across. I don't want to let her make me the bad guy so she can play victim and say, "See, this is why I had to leave him." I don't want to give her that privilege and an easy way to rationalize this.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Welp, I finally signed up for my own cell plan today. Did not go smoothly at all.

Since I'm on her plan, I needed her pin to change my line to the new carrier and keep my number. I didn't have it, tried to call her, no answer, sent a text. Sat in Sprint store for 20 minutes and just when I was going to get a new temp number she texted it back to me.

Get all the way through the process and it turns out my phone is locked and only she can authorize an unlock. Call again, no answer. The rep, probably doing something on so kosher, calls AT&T and acts like her to help me out. It works, to a point, but now they have to do an investigation to see if my phone can be unlocked. That won't conclude until at least February 7th and I'm without any phone use in the meantime.

So, I got home and sent her an email telling her what had happened and that she's going to get an email on the 7th form AT&T with info about whether or not my phone is unlocked and to please let me know what they say. I went on to tell her that we should keep both insurances (car and health) as is during the process.

Lastly, I said that texts like "hi", ones asking why I look at her Instagrams and don't respond to texts and calls with no messages have to stop and that she needs to be direct and keep it to talk of divorce or the possibility of reconciliation. 

She responded that her cost to keep me on insurance is $200/month and her understanding is that car insurance is $100/month for her and asked if I could transfer her $100/month to make it equal. 

It's a reasonable request, but I just hate how she goes from trying to talk about this, backing off on Thursday to the point where she said we could keep things as they are, to today asking for the difference. All while she continues to use her free membership to the yoga company I work for; roughly $120/month that she's saving.

I responded that I would transfer her $100/month in the interim and look for my own insurance in the meantime (it would probably be cheaper for me). But man, I'm an idiot guys, I ended the e-mail with, "I miss you."

I know, I know, I'm so stupid for doing that. I hadn't said that to her in months but I just feel really down today with all these remaining tethers getting severed. I thought I was doing pretty well, but I know now that I have a long way to go.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You can't detach is your problem to fix. She's told you and shown you that she's gone.

All your sliver of hope does is keep you where you are. Let it go. Like she has.

You'll be fine


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> You can't detach is your problem to fix. She's told you and shown you that she's gone.
> 
> All your sliver of hope does is keep you where you are. Let it go. Like she has.
> 
> You'll be fine


Yeah, I've been a fool most of the time, holding to hope where none really existed. That's partly her fault for saying she might consider therapy and that she had six months once the divorce was filed to change her mind, but at this point it's over.

Dealing with the financial realities is harder. I'm not sure how I can swing it presently so I'll need to make major life changes in the very near future.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

So I saw my therapist last night, and he recommended that I set up a face to face meeting with her as a means of closure.

What is everyone's thoughts on this? I still feel love for her and I'm pretty frazzled by her telling me she missed me so I don't think I could do it for a while.

But in general, does this seem like a good idea? I guess I'm just worried about managing my expectations knowing how I feel.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Honestly, I dont see the point of this. All this would do is make you look weak, and give her opportunity to try and manipulate you. You just need to give yourself some time to move toward acceptance that this is done, remind yourself of the bullsh!t she has put you through. 

I say dont do it.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

GP,

just for clarification what does your therapist suggest is your approach in meeting face to face...what are your talking points...closure is just a word...and it means nothing to someone who is constantly stringing you along.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I think you have given your STBX more than enough chances to come around and that she is an emotional vampire sucking you dry. 

But, if you feel you absolutely have to do this meeting face to face, I would keep it simple. "Is divorce really what you want? I don't want to play games. Honestly, this is not what I want, but if divorce is what you think you need, I will give it to you. I just hope you realize that we are not going to be friends in the future, and if it is up to me, when the judge closes the book on us, I hope to never see or hear from you again, ever."

If she says yes to the D, then give her what she says she wants and follow through on your promise. Get the D done as quickly as you can, to your best advantage, and go black hole on her.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> Honestly, I dont see the point of this. All this would do is make you look weak, and give her opportunity to try and manipulate you. You just need to give yourself some time to move toward acceptance that this is done, remind yourself of the bullsh!t she has put you through.
> 
> I say dont do it.


That was my reaction as well; at least not until I'm able to go into it with as little expectation as possible.



Xenote said:


> GP,
> 
> just for clarification what does your therapist suggest is your approach in meeting face to face...what are your talking points...closure is just a word...and it means nothing to someone who is constantly stringing you along.


He suggested that I send an email clearly outlining what the meeting would be about as a means to take control. He said I should admit that initially I wanted to meet as a means to get her back, but that now I would just want to talk for us to get anything off our chests we still might have.

He did advise that I tell her I still love her but that I respect her decision and just want the opportunity to make sure she's okay, find out about how we're both doing and then move forward.

I don't know... I'm mixed. It might help but it could possibly really hurt. I'm not even sure she would agree to it anyway.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

golfpanther said:


> That was my reaction as well; at least not until I'm able to go into it with as little expectation as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not an expert by any means, but GP, this just smells like a train wreck and the only person i see getting hurt is you....my father was a psychiatrist, and he shared many, many thoughts on human behavior...and one thing that stands out even today pertains in general to this...we were going to the museum of art in Boston one day, and as we were walking around I had just been through a break up and i was feeling bummed out and my father was realizing this and we stood in one of the salon and he pointed out a couple and asked me are they happy? i was puzzled why he asked me that, then he said which one of those two has all the power in the relationship?
and again i was sure what he was talking about...he asked me look and watch the body language and how they interacted with each other, she went for holding his hand and he pushed it away, they moved together but apart, when ever she tried to grab his arm, he relented but only for a minute and moved away...my father said that couple will probably in the not to distant future and it will be she that will be devastated because he holds the power, no relationship is ever 50/50 someone is more invest in that relationship than is the other....and not always the same person at the same time. Right now she has the power over you, sitting with her, you would be like a man entering a shoot out with no weapons....you still building that armor you will need.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Xenote said:


> I am not an expert by any means, but GP, this just smells like a train wreck and the only person i see getting hurt is you....my father was a psychiatrist, and he shared many, many thoughts on human behavior...and one thing that stands out even today pertains in general to this...we were going to the museum of art in Boston one day, and as we were walking around I had just been through a break up and i was feeling bummed out and my father was realizing this and we stood in one of the salon and he pointed out a couple and asked me are they happy? i was puzzled why he asked me that, then he said which one of those two has all the power in the relationship?
> and again i was sure what he was talking about...he asked me look and watch the body language and how they interacted with each other, she went for holding his hand and he pushed it away, they moved together but apart, when ever she tried to grab his arm, he relented but only for a minute and moved away...my father said that couple will probably in the not to distant future and it will be she that will be devastated because he holds the power, no relationship is ever 50/50 someone is more invest in that relationship than is the other....and not always the same person at the same time. Right now she has the power over you, sitting with her, you would be like a man entering a shoot out with no weapons....you still building that armor you will need.


Awesome advice. Yes, I absolutely need to acquire more armor before anything like this happens.

At some point, I could see it being advantageous, but not when I'm still under so much of her control.

On the plus side, I'm a finalist for a new job and optioned a TV show I created so things are looking positive in some regards. Gotta focus on that.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

golfpanther said:


> T
> 
> He suggested that I send an email clearly outlining what the meeting would be about as a means to take control. He said I should admit that initially I wanted to meet as a means to get her back, but that now I would just want to talk for us to get anything off our chests we still might have.
> 
> ...


Again, this sounds very weak to me.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> On the plus side, I'm a finalist for a new job and optioned a TV show I created so things are looking positive in some regards. Gotta focus on that.


Congrats. Now... Pour all your effort into this.

I'm sure you like your counselor but quite frankly he is full of $hit on "closure". Closure occurs when Golfpanther finds a new life.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What it boils down to is you keep trying to play the pick me dance with your wife that is an an emotional affair with another man. I say that because that is what explains everything she is doing. She is picking the stronger male. It's very obvious. Which of your friends are calling/texting you at 3,4 , 5am.
The only thing curious about this is you have no will to talk to "friends" wife and find out what is going on there. It's also curious that you have no anger after all these months after being blatantly disrespected. Are you a really timid person?

Google NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY free download. There is something drastically wrong the way you are reacting to this situation.
It's like you're sleep walking. No passion one way or the other.

Have you googled signs my wife is cheating and gone down the checklist?


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> What it boils down to is you keep trying to play the pick me dance with your wife that is an an emotional affair with another man. I say that because that is what explains everything she is doing. She is picking the stronger male. It's very obvious. Which of your friends are calling/texting you at 3,4 , 5am.
> The only thing curious about this is you have no will to talk to "friends" wife and find out what is going on there. It's also curious that you have no anger after all these months after being blatantly disrespected. Are you a really timid person?
> 
> Google NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY free download. There is something drastically wrong the way you are reacting to this situation.
> ...


Yes, you're right. In general, I'm not a timid person. In fact, I used to get angry all the time and it was a problem in our relationship. I worked on it and found other ways to express myself.

However, and though I might not convey it here, there have been plenty of times where I've wanted to flip out on her, tear her down, call her names and all that. I haven't in part because I know that's emblematic of the person I used to be (roughly 3-4 years ago) and it would give her ample reasons for this to be the "right choice." Whatever the hell that means.

But even today, part of me wants to call her up and destroy her world or expose what is likely an emotional affair. I have seriously considered contacting the wife of the guy and just saying something like, "While it's great he's there for her so much, I do find it odd that he's talking to her at 3am rather than being in bed next to you."

I'm sure something is there, at least an emotional affair. The guys a freaking troll too and a lot older than her. She'd have to be pretty f$#%ing stupid to get involved with him.

I'll check out No More Mr. Nice Guy. Thanks for the advice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You're too weak to handle a confrontation. Fix yourself first.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Logistics question pertaining to divorce: my case is listed as "pending" on the court's online database and the only two forms listed as filed are her Petition and Summons.

I was served a little over a month ago and sent them back to her about 9 days later per her instructions. In our state, you have 60 days to file the rest of your paperwork after the initial filing.

That was 54 days ago so it's fast approaching. Is it possible the other forms have been turned in but that the site hasn't updated yet (for reference, it showed her Petition and Summons just 2 days after she filed)? Are the forms maybe being reviewed before they're posted?

I realize that this might be beyond the scope of this site, but I'm trying to figure out if I should check with the courthouse and then with my STBXW about this if to see if something is amiss or she's failed to turn in the necessary documents.

Thanks in advance for any insight!


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

You had best go down to the courthouse right away and file that response with the court. Talk to the clerk and do what they tell you.

At least that way she can't obtain a default judgment on you and jerk you around.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Tron said:


> You had best go down to the courthouse right away and file that response with the court. Talk to the clerk and do what they tell you.
> 
> At least that way she can't obtain a default judgment on you and jerk you around.


Yeah, I'm going to go there Wednesday, work permitting.

I just don't get it. We agreed on everything (not a ton of shared assets, no kids etc. made that easy) so there's no reason for her to not have turned in the remaining paperwork.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

So, after doing more digging it seems like that the 60 day rule isn't actively enforced. Strange that it would even be considered a rule then. I'm sure she knows this too. I haven't made it to the courthouse to know for certain if she hasn't turned it in, but I can't imagine the court's database would be this slow to update.

It puts me in such a crappy situation. I still want the opportunity to reconcile, but at the same time I can't just sit around and wait for her to actually turn the paperwork in (for reference, it's been slightly over a month since she received my paperwork back per the instructions I received). I'm sure some would tell me to file the response and rest of it on my own, but I don't have the originals anymore because I sent those back to her.

Is this yet another manipulation? I can't imagine that anything would make her too busy to do this; it's the most important thing going on in her life hands down, even if she has started with someone new. Hell, even more so if she has, no guy wants to be starting a relationship with a married woman who refuses to finalize her divorce.

I have to reach out to her sometime soon anyway to talk about doing our taxes, but f$%@, if she hasn't turned in the stuff I will be so pissed because it'll be obvious that she once again wants me to push her into doing it.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Welp, she turned them in last Friday; the last possible day she could do it before the 60 days were up (60 days would have been Sunday). Part of me regrets not responding to her texts and/or picking up her phone calls at the beginning of the month, but the logical side of me says that she was probably just looking for a push from me to do it or making one last effort to convince me to be her friend. She clearly had reservations up to the last minute because she waited almost an entire month after I sent them to her to file the rest of the papers.

I checked the phone records one last time and at midnight the night before she had a 108 minute call with a new number, but who knows if one of the random numbers texting her all this time was this person using a VoiP line. I found the owner and it's a guy; he's a bit older than me and laughably is in the same industry (with less success). Everyone was right; I was plan B until something came along to make this easier/safer for her. I just don't get how she could go for someone that does the same things I do. I will run, fast, from anyone that has the same career as her.

I just found out so this is really fresh and I'm a weird mixture of anger, sadness, anxiety and somewhere in there, relief. Not that I'm actually getting divorced and have a clear date ahead of me when that's going to happen, but that maybe, just maybe, the rollercoaster is over and I can move forward without wondering if there's something I can do to fix this.

One thing that really, REALLY [email protected]$#ing pisses me off is that she didn't have the decency to tell me. It's been four full days and not a peep. I get that maybe the first couple days she might have been reeling too and sorting through her own emotions, but by Monday, come on, tell me; I deserve to know when I'm officially divorced.

I guess I'm looking for advice on where to go from here. I've been doing better, not great, but baby steps. I found a new place to live over the weekend that will relieve a ton of financial stress and things are progressing nicely thus far with the tv idea I optioned. I have had no real desire to date bit I guess this could accelerate that.

How did anyone else on here cope/find healthy ways to move forward when finality came after things being dragged out?

Lastly, in the interest of being prepared, and this might not happen at all, what would anyone's advice be if at some point between now and August 17th (or even after the divorce is decreed) she shows interest in talking about us and/or possibly working on things? I'm not even sure how I'd feel if that came to pass, but it does seem like a lot of posters on this board experience some form of this. I'd imagine if things don't go well with this new guy that she'll probably reach out. I guess I would need to clarify my own feelings and right now, yeah, I'd probably be open to it.

Gosh, this really sucks. I feel like a fool—a fool for allowing myself to be treated so poorly for the past nearly six months by someone that once upon a time, loved me more than anyone. All the contact, all the perceived mixed signals, were really just her seeking edification for the decision she'd made. I was a puppet on a string that was there to play with whenever she needed, and then when I stopped letting her, she finally just did it.

Oh well, I'm mostly just rambling now but it hurts. She'll probably be pregnant within the year or at some point try to get me back. Either way, I'm gonna be getting a punch to the gut at some point.

Thanks to everyone that helped me to this point.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Like most things in life, YOU have to take responsibility that things get done, that people are chased up constantly, etc.

Don't rely on your stbx to do her part. Unless she proactively tells you "I did X" and you can verify it, assume it's not done. 

Show that you will not tolerate childish, passive-aggressive games by being independently in action and prepared. 

Work be damned, honestly. There won't be a mushroom cloud because you went to the courthouse. This is your life and your future. You need to take 100% responsibility and investment in its direction.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Satya said:


> Like most things in life, YOU have to take responsibility that things get done, that people are chased up constantly, etc.
> 
> Don't rely on your stbx to do her part. Unless she proactively tells you "I did X" and you can verify it, assume it's not done.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm trying to take 100% responsibility for myself and just move on. It's gonna be a bit longer before I'm totally there, but I've come a long way from nearly 6 months ago.

She's done it according to the court's website so I see no point in going to the courthouse now. I'm just profoundly disappointed and pissed off by the fact she didn't have the decency to tell me.

I guess I just have to wish her the best with the new relationship and let go of all feelings associated with her.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

golfpanther said:


> Lastly, in the interest of being prepared, and this might not happen at all, what would anyone's advice be if at some point between now and August 17th (or even after the divorce is decreed) she shows interest in talking about us and/or possibly working on things? I'm not even sure how I'd feel if that came to pass, but it does seem like a lot of posters on this board experience some form of this. I'd imagine if things don't go well with this new guy that she'll probably reach out. I guess I would need to clarify my own feelings and right now, yeah, I'd probably be open to it.
> 
> Gosh, this really sucks. I feel like a fool—*a fool for allowing myself to be treated so poorly for the past nearly six months by someone that once upon a time, loved me more than anyone. All the contact, all the perceived mixed signals, were really just her seeking edification for the decision she'd made. I was a puppet on a string that was there to play with whenever she needed, and then when I stopped letting her, she finally just did it.*
> 
> ...


If she comes sniffing back around to try and get you back, remember the crappy way she has treated you and tell her to piss off. Why would you want to give another chance to someone who has done this to you? You deserve better.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Quick update.

My STBXW still has not told me that she turned in the rest of the paperwork. It's been two and a half weeks and frankly, I'm shocked, disappointed, angry and hurt. I guess I shouldn't be given her penchant for avoidance, but it seems like not only the decent thing to do, but the responsible thing as well.

I found a new place to live and will be moving in over the next few weeks. It's brought up a lot of emotions. In general, I'm doing much better but I still wake up with an anxious feeling and get triggered daily.

No communication at all with her since I sent my email the day after Valentine's Day (which she didn't respond to) and it's been a month since we both said we missed one another. I'm working on acceptance, but it's been tough.

Still have to file taxes, but I'm holding off on emailing her about that until I get settled into my new place. Hopefully, she doesn't file taxes on her own in the meantime thinking that's allowed.

My therapist suggested I start making memories with someone new. How did the rest of you out there that have gone through this know when you're ready to do that?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

golfpanther said:


> Quick update.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




She can do married filing separately, right?


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## curious234 (Jan 28, 2017)

follow don't ask don't tell policy. who knows after testing her plan A she might decide plan B is better. Then you can surprise her


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## Mucc (Oct 13, 2015)

golfpanther said:


> Quick update.
> 
> My STBXW still has not told me that she turned in the rest of the paperwork. It's been two and a half weeks and frankly, I'm shocked, disappointed, angry and hurt. I guess I shouldn't be given her penchant for avoidance, but it seems like not only the decent thing to do, but the responsible thing as well.
> 
> ...


I havent read all of your thread but sounds like you ex spouse wasn't very considerate, to say the very least. 

I know that anxious feeling every morning. It goes away, I promise. I found music helped me during that time of my life (And this was maybe 8 months ago for me). I also found this amazing - non-mindful task (There are papers with a bunch of numbers with dots - lets say upto 600 or something - I would just connect them) every time I get triggered. A friend of mine did kickboxing to help her. 

I found it particularly hard to focus on work - my work requires me to really be there. For eg. I would read treatment options for a disease and then have no recollection of it and have to read it all over again. I'm better at this but it still worries. 

I also made some brand new friends - friends that had nothing to do with my past life - that really helped. I focused my energy on getting to know them. This was fairly easy - I just joined a meet up group. 

Acceptance is hard, I am not sure I am there yet, but the intensity of feelings get better with time. I think the sooner you get done with paperwork, the better. I found that I was able to sort of move along in life (with some bad days in between) as I was waiting to file. Now that I am in the middle of the process and it is sort of front and centre in my life - its hard not to think about it, get upset and feel those emotions again. I recommend moving forward with final divorce as soon as you are able. I also recommend as little communication as possible. If filing separately doesn't make you lose too much in terms of $$, I would do that. Lack of contact, I found, is one of the best catalysts as you move forward. 

I guess different people are different in terms of when they are ready to be out there again. I have always dated seriously. As in, if I walked into a relationship with someone it was ultimately to settle down. Post separation, this has been troublesome. Because you are likely not ready to be in a serious relationship. I still don't feel I am there. I don't build castles and dreams anymore. Not sure if I ever will. Regardless, I found that going on a date or two every now and then did help with my self esteem. It made me feel desirable for lack of a better term. And it made me feel like I could still be on the market. 

Men however work differently, so maybe you feel differently based on your gender and age. Good luck, hope you are feeling better everyday.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Mucc said:


> I havent read all of your thread but sounds like you ex spouse wasn't very considerate, to say the very least.
> 
> I know that anxious feeling every morning. It goes away, I promise. I found music helped me during that time of my life (And this was maybe 8 months ago for me). I also found this amazing - non-mindful task (There are papers with a bunch of numbers with dots - lets say upto 600 or something - I would just connect them) every time I get triggered. A friend of mine did kickboxing to help her.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your reply. It helps to hear from people that are further along on this journey.

Good call about the Meet Up group. I used to be a part of a few so I could return to those in addition to finding some new ones.

I've been doing okay with work. At first it was kind of a haven because it allowed me to focus on something other than my sadness. It's less of that now, but I've still managed to keep up with everything, thank goodness. A job loss at this time would be pretty crummy.

Some hurt tonight as she unfriended me on Facebook and unfollowed me on Instagram.

Also, to add fuel to the fire that her and her coworker were involved... he unfriended me at almost the exact same time so it seems coordinated. In addition, he changed his relationship status from married (with his wife's name) to "no relationship info to show. His wife also changed hers to married and removed his name from it and deleted all but one photo of the two of them together; there used to be hundreds. Where there's smoke there's fire and all that.

Going on a date for self esteem could be good, but like you I've always dated to be serious, or at least entertain the possibility. That complicates things a bit. Part of me wants to go the casual route and be really up front and honest about that with women I date, but the other part wonders if I'm capable of that. Guess there's only one way to find out.

I'm still fairly young (so everyone tells me anyway) and have kept myself in shape over the years. Thanks for the well wishes and I hope you're feeling better too.


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## Mucc (Oct 13, 2015)

golfpanther said:


> Thanks so much for your reply. It helps to hear from people that are further along on this journey.
> 
> Good call about the Meet Up group. I used to be a part of a few so I could return to those in addition to finding some new ones.
> 
> ...


I don't know if I am further along journey, but I have been through some parts. I am often a mess though.

I would say its somewhat of a good thing that she has unfriended you from social media. Again, the less you find out the better/easier to move on. Try to not stalk them on social media. Tell your common friends (if you have any) to not give you updates about what she is upto etc.

I know curiosity dictates we find out whats up with them, but I was better off when I had no idea. Now that divorce proceedings gives me some info - it sort of feels I am back in the roller coaster. 

People say over time stuff gets better. I certainly hope so. If you are quite young, then there is lots of time to find a new mate. So no rush to date if you don't feel upto it. Sometimes you can dip your feet in the water and go back on the land if it feels too cold. 

I have shifted my focus on my career and taking it in new directions. And that has helped - because its fairly linear - I put in work - I get results. So continue doing well at your job.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

A quick update for those interested.

I moved into a new place about a week and a half ago. Immediately went on a work trip for a week so only the past few nights have been in the new space. Some relief that I'm out of the old apartment, but I've definitely been experiencing longing for my STBXW.

Outside of one email last week from her asking if she could pick up a package she mistakenly sent to our old address, we have had no contact since early February. It's mostly been good, as it was terribly draining every time she initiated, but I really do miss her. Not telling her that, but while it's gotten easier it's still hard.

I've had some good progress with the show I optioned and things will hopefully really get moving in April. My 9-5 has ramped up my responsibilities, which is good because now I feel like I have more job security.

I've used some of the online dating apps and gotten a pretty good response, but still haven't found the courage to actually meet up with someone in person. I'm probably going to end up relying on meeting some face to face first but it's a nice confidence boost to know interest is there.

Hope everyone else is doing well.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> A quick update for those interested.
> 
> I moved into a new place about a week and a half ago. Immediately went on a work trip for a week so only the past few nights have been in the new space. Some relief that I'm out of the old apartment, but I've definitely been experiencing longing for my STBXW.
> 
> ...



Golfpanther - scroll down to the thread started by MrPack. It's a long read and will take you some time. He was where you were. Watch his transformation. This can be you.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

golfpanther said:


> A quick update for those interested.
> 
> I moved into a new place about a week and a half ago. Immediately went on a work trip for a week so only the past few nights have been in the new space. Some relief that I'm out of the old apartment, but I've definitely been experiencing longing for my STBXW.
> 
> ...


Thanks for putting your story out, I am currently going through some of this and good to read that things get better even though they move slower than we want.

I am still living with my STBXW and hoping this is the lowest part of all this because I cannot see me going much lower. 

Good luck with the future and keep us in the loop on the online dating, I have not been on a date with anyone other than my STBXW for over 12 years so not even sure how to date anymore. :smile2:


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Absurdist said:


> Golfpanther - scroll down to the thread started by MrPack. It's a long read and will take you some time. He was where you were. Watch his transformation. This can be you.


I've read some of MrPack's thread and it's definitely been helpful. Still have a good bit to work through on it, but it's been great to chart his and others' journeys on here and see the light at the end of the road.



MovingForward said:


> Thanks for putting your story out, I am currently going through some of this and good to read that things get better even though they move slower than we want.
> 
> I am still living with my STBXW and hoping this is the lowest part of all this because I cannot see me going much lower.
> 
> Good luck with the future and keep us in the loop on the online dating, I have not been on a date with anyone other than my STBXW for over 12 years so not even sure how to date anymore. :smile2:


I can completely and totally empathize with this. I was with my STBXW for 11 years, and she was all I ever wanted or thought of in a romantic way. My fear is that when I do meet someone I really click with I will not have the skills to actually make a move.

My new roommates threw me a welcome dinner tonight and while the food was great and overall it was a good time, it made me realize just how much my life has changed in the span of 7 months. As I sit here writing this, for the first time in a long time I have that anxious feeling that is very reminiscent of what I felt right after she left. I still really miss her and I think being around a bunch of other people was jarring and reminded me of all that went up in smoke.

Sigh, I really thought I was done having bad nights but I guess at least a few more are in store for me. There's been a ton of change for me these past few weeks so it's probably just now catching up with me.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Okay, so it's been a good bit since I've posted on here...

Things have been going great! New place is working out, went on a date last Friday that was fun, but no real sparks on my end. That was ideal actually; I got to get back out there and not have the pressure or expectation of feelings.

The TV show I optioned is picking up steam and I've been playing music out a lot. Overall, a lot of good stuff!

And then I come home tonight after playing music with a friend and see this e-mail from my STBXW:

"I received notice today that the paperwork was found to be null and therefor we have to start the process over including the 6 month wait time. I am going to hire a lawyer to redo everything and will keep you posted."

WTF! WTF! WTF! Seriously, I don't even begin to understand what the hell this is.

I mean, we were 3 months to do the day until our divorce was supposed to be final. I was finally accepting it, dealing with triggers much better and adapting (even enjoying) my new life. And now I have to go through the ENTIRE PROCESS all over again? Getting served? Filling out documents? Notarizing my paperwork??? Not to mention, BEING FREAKING LEGALLY MARRIED TO SOMEONE I HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN IN 8 AND A HALF MONTHS TO DATE!

Sorry for the all caps stuff, I never do that, but this is just nuts. I mean, how do I even respond to that? I want to demand to see the notice she received and ask that we do everything in our power to make the original timeline stick.

I never wanted this divorce, but f#k, if this is reality just get it over and done with. I don't want to go through the whole crappy thing again.

Anyone have experience with this? Why would it come back null with no chance to fix whatever it was that wasn't right? Do any of you think this is a manipulation of some kind? Ugh, I thought I was finally on the other side of this.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What does your attorney have to say about it?


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

golfpanther said:


> Okay, so it's been a good bit since I've posted on here...
> 
> Things have been going great! New place is working out, went on a date last Friday that was fun, but no real sparks on my end. That was ideal actually; I got to get back out there and not have the pressure or expectation of feelings.
> 
> ...


Dam I am so sorry this is happening to you, I can relate to how you are feeling, I have been fortunate that mine should be all done in under 7 months and I never wanted the Divorce but the process wears you out and i am just ready for it to be over like you are. 

Good luck and hopefully some better news comes out of this for you.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> What does your attorney have to say about it?


He didn't hire one.

Golfpanther- you really need to hire an attorney. Take a credit card advance if necessary. A competent divorce attorney can look at the docket and tell you in minutes about the procedural problem with the divorce. Don't screw around here. She's hired a lawyer. Together they can kick you around like a rented mule. Don't leave your future to chance. Don't stick your head in the sand but take charge for once. You've let her run this show while you've floated around on the waves like a piece of seaweed. Get cracking and come back and report how you've taken charge.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Absurdist said:


> He didn't hire one.
> 
> Golfpanther- you really need to hire an attorney. Take a credit card advance if necessary. A competent divorce attorney can look at the docket and tell you in minutes about the procedural problem with the divorce. Don't screw around here. She's hired a lawyer. Together they can kick you around like a rented mule. Don't leave your future to chance. Don't stick your head in the sand but take charge for once. You've let her run this show while you've floated around on the waves like a piece of seaweed. Get cracking and come back and report how you've taken charge.


I know, brother. 

It was a rhetorical question.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

golfpanther said:


> Okay, so it's been a good bit since I've posted on here...
> 
> Things have been going great! New place is working out, went on a date last Friday that was fun, but no real sparks on my end. That was ideal actually; I got to get back out there and not have the pressure or expectation of feelings.
> 
> ...


You were asking questions about paperwork back in February weren't you? Odds are she never filed the additional paperwork within the time frame so the court system bounced it out of system. 

In general terms ws are notorious for not following up on paperwork, deadlines and are too busy "having fun" to be bothered.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

honcho said:


> You were asking questions about paperwork back in February weren't you? Odds are she never filed the additional paperwork within the time frame so the court system bounced it out of system.
> 
> In general terms ws are notorious for not following up on paperwork, deadlines and are too busy "having fun" to be bothered.


She definitely did. It's in the system on the court's website.

I guess I will probably have to lawyer up this time. But I'm done dealing with her directly. First step is go to the courthouse to see if the previous paperwork is salvageable.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> She definitely did. It's in the system on the court's website.
> 
> I guess I will probably have to lawyer up this time. But I'm done dealing with her directly. First step is go to the courthouse to see if the previous paperwork is salvageable.



If you hire an attorney you won't have to deal with her. That's the lawyer's job. Why waste your time going to the courthouse? It's like you trying to read your own MRI. The lawyer can do this in a matter of minutes.

I should have known FSJ wasn't being obtuse. He was asking you a pointed question.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@golfpanther - sorry you are in this spot BUT two things lawyer up and cut her off...I knew a woman like your wife VERY well...she kept one guy on the hook while she moved on to the next guy..once the next guy was hooked she dropped the previous one...there is one and only one solution with a woman like your XW - CUT HER OFF COMPLETELY - change your cell phone number, your email address, whatever...thats it - she is gone and treat her that way -she is of absolutely no use to you anymore - she has NO place on your life - NONE...a lawyer will prevent any legal games she might be playing - you are not a lawyer so hire one ASAP..if you are a creative type she might be hanging on to see if she can get a piece of whatever you might sell...who knows...but one thing is for sure - her character leaves a lot to be desired..and I'm using that phrasing to be nice...

Even if she wanted to come back to you - what the hell would you be getting back? Move on and find someone who is well balanced. Its ok to grieve but frankly you havent lost much with this one. Good luck!!


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

Been a bit since Iv'e posted...

Judgement package was received by the court on August 21st so I guess we're just waiting for them to enter it in so it can be completed. Pretty relieved it's finally all done.

Do need a bit of advice. My XW reached out to be last week to ask if I could take back the cat she took when she left. She claimed he was lonely, she's not home enough and that he misses our other cat, which I kept. After some contemplating I responded that I couldn't at this time but maybe in a few months I could take him back (totally the truth as my housing situation is touchy at the moment).

Anyway, a few of my friends have said that I shouldn't do it because they sensed this was her way of creeping back into my life. It would be easy to say no flat out if I didn't love the cat, but I do. I asked what her plan for him was if I couldn't take him and she said she didn't have a plan. Then she sent another email thanking me for responding and considering it and that it meant a lot to her.

I'm pretty pissed about it to be honest and think it shows a lack of character and understanding of what she did. Of course the cat is upset and misses me and his friend—how could she not have known this going in? And then to say she's not home enough and somehow make this my responsibility... ugh.

What are your all's thoughts? A ploy to start up a friendship or whatever with me or should I take it at face value? Should I just refuse even though I love the cat and don't want him to end up in some stranger's home?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Forget about her. Who knows what will happen to the cat if you don't take it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My cat is definitely lonely now that our other cat died. She walks around and cries all the time, and the other cat's been gone for 2 years. What's the difference between one cat and two? More litter to clean.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Why isn't she blocked?


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

golfpanther said:


> Been a bit since Iv'e posted...
> 
> Judgement package was received by the court on August 21st so I guess we're just waiting for them to enter it in so it can be completed. Pretty relieved it's finally all done.
> 
> ...


My thought is her plans are usually not well thought out.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I didn't read the whole thread, but if you don't have kids together, go totally NC. Don't answer anything. You'll heal faster. Glad to see things are going better than the first post.


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## sadgirlseperated (Sep 3, 2017)

Well, I completely understand what you are going through. My husband and I have been separated for a while now and I truly want to reconcile with him. He also keeps in constant communication and I have let him have a lot of time to decide what he wants from our marriage. He is also a musician and always asks me to come to his shows every time he plays. And I do... When I watch him perform I still feel like I did from the moment we met. We have also spent a lot of time together to a degree to which I thought we were working things out... I then told him that I just couldn't talk to him any longer and needed to get on with my life. 2 weeks went by during which time I was paralyzed with grief and then he asked me to go to a concert and I said yes. We had an amazing night together full of holding hands and kissing. I was in heaven. Then he asked me to go to his wrap party for the TV show he works on and was introducing me all night to everyone this is my wife. When we got home that night I said I can't be your wife with you sometimes. I thought for sure he would say ok I love you and lets keep trying but he didn't. He then called me a few days later to say we could try. After a few weeks of "trying" i said you are less sweet to me know than when we were separated. He said he really just can't do it and he just doesn't know why and that its not you, its me kind of thing. He said I am a big part of his life and he doesn't want to lose the friendship but the friendship is hurting me deeply because I love him so much but It hurts to much to live in limbo... We have been together for 18 years and he is my whole life. I don't have partents and we never had kids and I don't have any brothers and sisters so I really feel he is my only family. At this point I can barely get out of bed and I can't eat or sleep and all I want is my old life back with him. But he obviously wants me to only be there when he feels he wants company and not enough that he wants to see me every day. I am living a life where I can't move on but Im also pretty much all alone most of the time. Its painful because we are still so close and I truly love him but he is not willing to be a normal married couple. When I think about my life without him I literally feel like I want to die. I am not strong enough to not respond when he calls me or say no when he asks to see me and I feel like Im wasting my life away on someone who once loved me like crazy and now just giving tiny bits and pieces.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

golfpanther said:


> Hi Everyone. First post on the forums because I'm at a loss with my situation. Figuring people on these boards have heard stories similar to mine and might have some advice.
> 
> My wife (29 and I'm 34) of 7 years, 11 years together, told me in August that she wanted a divorce. Three days later she moved in with a friend for a week before getting her own apartment. Her reasons where: 1) She felt neglected and thought I didn't like her. 2) She felt like her needs had taken a back seat for too long. 3) She had wanted a baby before 30 and last year I expressed doubts (which she interpreted as me lying to her all along) and now she felt like her time had passed and that left her heartbroken. 4) She snooped through my chat history and found conversations between me and a coworker in September of last year that she felt signaled an emotional affair (we were really good friends, but no romantic feelings ever developed and I never talked badly about my wife to her).
> 
> ...



There are two sides here

1. her concerns as listed at the top of your story, are they true? Did you do a bait and switch when it came to children? Did you neglect her? (this is a huge problem in any relationship), were you sharing stuff with your 'really good friend' which you should have been sharing with your wife? I don't see why a married man has a 'really good friend' who is female, you are asking for trouble there and in your mind you have not done anything wrong but imagine the shoe was on the other foot and your wife was chatting and texting some guy from her work place and passes him off as ' a really good friend' I think you are in denial.

She doesn't want the divorce either, hence she is dancing on the edge, drawing you in to see if you will change, if you will make right the things above, will you be different. I think you have not shown her you will, be so to keep herself from further hurt she pushes for divorce and she is probably waiting for some grand gesture from you.

Why didn't you both consider MC first before pulling the trigger?

1. You should suggest MC to her
2. Set a deadline when you are going to file for divorce, if she wont
3. Tell her this is your deadline, no more toing and froing
4. Move along


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sadgirlseperated said:


> Well, I completely understand what you are going through. My husband and I have been separated for a while now and I truly want to reconcile with him. He also keeps in constant communication and I have let him have a lot of time to decide what he wants from our marriage. He is also a musician and always asks me to come to his shows every time he plays. And I do... When I watch him perform I still feel like I did from the moment we met. We have also spent a lot of time together to a degree to which I thought we were working things out... I then told him that I just couldn't talk to him any longer and needed to get on with my life. 2 weeks went by during which time I was paralyzed with grief and then he asked me to go to a concert and I said yes. We had an amazing night together full of holding hands and kissing. I was in heaven. Then he asked me to go to his wrap party for the TV show he works on and was introducing me all night to everyone this is my wife. When we got home that night I said I can't be your wife with you sometimes. I thought for sure he would say ok I love you and lets keep trying but he didn't. He then called me a few days later to say we could try. After a few weeks of "trying" i said you are less sweet to me know than when we were separated. He said he really just can't do it and he just doesn't know why and that its not you, its me kind of thing. He said I am a big part of his life and he doesn't want to lose the friendship but the friendship is hurting me deeply because I love him so much but It hurts to much to live in limbo... We have been together for 18 years and he is my whole life. I don't have partents and we never had kids and I don't have any brothers and sisters so I really feel he is my only family. At this point I can barely get out of bed and I can't eat or sleep and all I want is my old life back with him. But he obviously wants me to only be there when he feels he wants company and not enough that he wants to see me every day. I am living a life where I can't move on but Im also pretty much all alone most of the time. Its painful because we are still so close and I truly love him but he is not willing to be a normal married couple. When I think about my life without him I literally feel like I want to die. I am not strong enough to not respond when he calls me or say no when he asks to see me and I feel like Im wasting my life away on someone who once loved me like crazy and now just giving tiny bits and pieces.


Try reading the book Codependent No More.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Meet to hand over cat and vet papers. 

Say "thanks."

Walk away and block her from further communication. 

I fail to see what's difficult in that.


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## golfpanther (Nov 30, 2016)

aine said:


> There are two sides here
> 
> 1. her concerns as listed at the top of your story, are they true? Did you do a bait and switch when it came to children? Did you neglect her? (this is a huge problem in any relationship), were you sharing stuff with your 'really good friend' which you should have been sharing with your wife? I don't see why a married man has a 'really good friend' who is female, you are asking for trouble there and in your mind you have not done anything wrong but imagine the shoe was on the other foot and your wife was chatting and texting some guy from her work place and passes him off as ' a really good friend' I think you are in denial.
> 
> ...


I've had a lot of time to think about this and yes, I see your points. I agree there are two sides and I definitely think she felt bait and switched about children. In my mind, I was just being honest about my fears and didn't want to rush into such a huge decision until we'd talked about it openly. That would either lead to A) where I am now or B) with us staying together and having kids. After discussion I was set on B but at that point she was already moving on.

In terms of my female friend... I grew having more female friends than male, but when I met my XW that changed. She never really had the tolerance for it and would get anxiety and jealous if I talked to a woman. To a certain extent, that's understandable. But I think most married people have friends that are of the opposite sex (or same sex if you're gay) without too much trouble. I think we can all agree that as you get older making friends is increasingly difficult. There's just fewer opportunities to find people you click with once you're out of school, have a full-time job ect. Was there some temptation? Yes, and I think that's a normal part of life and being human—especially when things are tough. But if anything it just made me create clearer boundaries about the types of interactions we'd have so it stayed just a friendship. 

No, I didn't share things with this person that I didn't share with my wife. We honestly only talked about entertainment because it was something we both worked in, but I never talked about my dreams, past or aspirations with her. I never talked badly about my XW or any issues we were having with my friend. That was for me and my wife. This person tried to open the door to more by talking about her issues with her boyfriend but I just offered advice and only had good things to say about my wife and our relationship. After about 3 months, I just stopped talking to her altogether.

My XW had many male friends and only one relationship bothered me. Toward the end, she told me about conversations her and a male coworker had about our relationship and he had expressed that he thought going out on dates to dinner, movie etc. weren't exciting enough (he was married at the time, since divorced, and would rage nearly every night even though he was a decent bit older than both of us).

It hurt at the time and in hindsight I should have taken this is a huge omen for what was to come, but I think I misread my XW. She said that she didn't agree with him, but deep down I think she wanted more excitement. She didn't live the life of a normal 20-something because she was married nearly the entire time and I think the idea of going out to clubs and partying, or even just being single, had always been a "what if" scenario for her. We'd had discussions about it throughout our relationship and whenever I asked if she would have rather had that life she always said no, but admitted that adulthood had come really fast for her. Maybe more than anything it was just a need to be free to do whatever she wanted that ended us. I say that with no judgement either—I think that's a completely valid want and in light of me expressing doubts about having kids I'm sure she said to herself, "What is the point of all this then?"

I did suggest MC soon after she left. I actually gave what I thought was a very reasonable plan—we'd go to therapy for a 2 month period while living apart. If at any time one of us thought it wasn't going to work we would walk away. At the end of the two months (if we made it there) we could assess where we were at and either continue with therapy or go our separate ways. The rest of my posts talk about how that went (she said she would consider it but didn't do it) and the toxic communication we kept up for the next 6 months after.

Oddly enough, her mom contacted my mom today out of nowhere to say she was really sad and upset about what had happened and hoped we were both okay (meaning me and my XW). It really bothered me. 1) At no point during this past year did she reach out to me to say anything. After 11 years... that seems rather [email protected]#%ed. 2) Saying you hope your daughter is okay is just odd. Why don't you know if your own daughter is okay? Do you not talk to her and ask her? I had a really bad upbringing but my mom still takes the time to check in now and then.

The divorce is final at this point (or at least everything is in the last I checked and we're just waiting for the judge to sign) so it's all settled now. My life is kind of a whirlwind right now so I've been thinking about her a lot lately. I do hope she's doing well and happier.

Thanks for your post too. It helps to know people out there care enough to read my story and offer advice.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Until you let go of this and realize she's not your problem your life will stay in a holding pattern.


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