# Wife lost her high drive - depression?



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

We are married ~15 years with preteen kids, mid 30's. Early on and for many years, sex was awesome and frequent (every day on average) and we both were HD. She would often even initiate by waking me in the night or early morning. This was in spite of raising small kids at the time, sometimes little sleep, less than mature communication, me working a lot and helping very little around the house.

About 2-3 years ago, the resentments in both directions had slowly built up enough that we began to grow apart and have sex somewhat less. A couple years before that she had been diagnosed with low thyroid, PCOS and insulin resistance, which required very low carb diet and frequent exercise to not gain weight. Coming into this year sex had dropped to about half. This spring we were very busy with kids and I traveled several times. She later admitted that she looked forward to me travelling at the time (no affairs involved here - already went down that road on another forum) just to not have to deal with each other. She also saw a nutritionist this spring and lost all remaining weight thru a strict diet and exercise. But around May, I decided I'd had enough and wanted to really fix things with us. I read His Needs/Her Needs and LoveBusters. Began practicing really listening to her, began spending all kinds of time with her, asking what needs she has, and being more involved with kids - and intentionally making our schedule less "busy".

This helped a lot, she simultaneously decided to not refuse sex, and she can always O, and almost always enjoys it, but will only initiate it 0-1 times per month (as opposed to frequently several years ago).

Due to misunderstandings and other issues, we finally decided to go thru some marriage coaching with older Christian friends, which started in August. We feel like we have made a ton of progress this summer, but her desire for sex has not increased, in fact it might it getting even less. When she thinks about it, she feels nothing. She can't come up with anything that I'm doing to kill her drive, and we truly love each other and show it, and take a lot of time to communicate and try to have fun every week. But thru the counseling, the coaches think she might have depression. She is already on Synthroid, Metformin, Iron. She was on 5HTP a few months ago and just re-started it and St Johns Wort for the first time last night.

She also exercises frequently - we take walks, talk, she goes to 3-5 or more cardio/strength classes at the gym each week, eat very healthy meat protein and vegetable focused diets, near 0 sugar or processed foods, get lots of sunlight during the summer, etc, etc. She is fully functional - getting up in the am, taking kids to school, exercising most of the time (although some weeks she just "doesn't feel like it"). 

Still her symptoms include :
constant tiredness in spite of lots of coffee, 
very low to non-existent sex drive, 
irritability at me and the kids, 
blowing up over very small things, then later not knowing why, 
and often an inability to focus on sex, or at least on the intimate part of it (physically she can nearly always get off but will sometimes discuss the inlaws or grandparents or birthday parties during the act). Also she doesn't appreciate much foreplay currently.

We used to be able to lie in bed and just cuddle or talk for a long time before we fell asleep, but lately she will often snap and yell at me if I make a noise or move wrong in bed and it wakes her up while she is falling asleep. Its an angry sleep. This can even occur if we get to bed at 10:15. She has tried melatonin but it makes her even more drowsy during the day so she quit taking that. 

She is happy to see friends and it energizes her a bit, but just hanging with the family/daily life makes her often very tired and eventually grouchy.She also says that her mind will constantly go to sad things, like a friend with a severely autistic child, or another friend who has cancer.

She wants to have a sex drive again - and like I said above, she CAN enjoy it once we start, but she wants to get back to where she could anticipate it, desire it, plan it. I want her to as well. That and to make the angry moments stop.

Any ideas/experience with hopefully a happy ending? If I eventually realize that I'm going to be the brunt of her frustrations for the rest of our lives despite trying to do the best I possibly can to support and meet her needs, I'm not sure I can endure the hurt forever.

Also, any anti-depressant that kills libido and/or ability to O is a non-starter for us. I'll also add that we have made an appt with her nutritionist team - the wife is a DO but specializes in natural medicine - for this Thursday. We also made an appt with her GP (MD who prescribed the Metformin and Synthroid) but the earliest opening was Oct 6.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I would start thinking about individual counseling - some of what you describe is depression but the snapping and constant anger are not necessarily depression related... I would not throw any more meds into the picture, just figure out what's going on first then you two can decide what's next.


----------



## TJA (Aug 24, 2015)

First of all good job on being a good listener, putting this kind of effort into supporting your wife and seeking answers to solve your situation. 

Second of all, if your wife is stressed about kids, bills that have to be payed, buying groceries, her job and cooking this can really effect her libdo and this can also make her very tired. 

For women more so than for men it's hard to focus on sex if you are already stressed or depressed. So when you say that she can only focus on the physical part and not so much the intimate part it's properly because she's stressed and her mind wanders other places. 

So how do you solve this problem? 

Well you keep her burden down in the house but also if you have grandparents try sending your kids over there once in a while and then surprise her with going out on a date and afterwards coming home to a really romantic setting (make sure you've cleaned up all the mess, light some candles... go completely over board)

No one does that! so that why it actually works extremely well. 

Thirdly other than not feeling stressed it's crucial that she feels sexy and beautiful. Here it's key that you make her feel sexy without there being an incentive to have sex. 

The thing is foreplay can actually start hours even days before the actual sex. So mentally and emotionally stimulate her as much as you can... And do it without a hidden motivation for sex. 

So hold her hand, rub her back, give her a head massage or an actual massage without expecting anything in return. Tell her how much you love her and how incredibly sexy she is. 

Finally try having a date night. Nothing too fancy... It can even be at home. 

Put on some of her favorite music, make a candle light dinner. 

I know you actually have to put in some effort here... But as I said before... No one does this and that's why it works so well


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

Thanks TJA, but actually I've tried most of that, and of course I'll keep doing so, but there's got to be more to it (we have a date at least once, often 2-3 times in a week and the kids go to grandparents as often as I can arrange it). It's worked with varying results at times, but something has definitely changed. We took a spontaneous trip recently w/o the kids just to be intimate. It was very romantic, nice, and all that. She said later that while she enjoyed being with me and had fun, and the sex was good, that it was like she didn't really care about or think about the sex like she used to - even with all the everyday pressures removed. Contrast that to 4 or 5 years ago when I didn't even have to try and she would just come and jump my bones -and the kids were much younger and needed even more care back then. She wants that anticipation and drive back and so do I.

There is always stress, but no more so than at other times in our lives. She stays home, I work, do a lot of the grocery shopping, pay the bills, take one of the kids to school.

She was also just dead tired all day today. Tonight she told me she was just sad and didn't know why (probably because its been suggested that she has clinical depression, so she feels like she is crazy). She fell asleep before 9:30. 

On a positive note she was much more calm and sweet tonight, she held me as she went to sleep and said she was so sorry that I had to deal with so many issues with her and that I was her rock. She said I have been great and so helpful thru all this but she cant really think of anything else I can do that would help her feel better.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

John - we are already doing the counselling thing, at least together, but they are willing to deal with these personal issues too. And the anger isn't really constant. Its mostly just when she is half asleep, or it can be a random blow up over something relatively small, but not always - it seems random. it is enough to be concerning though, because although she has always had a temper at times (which she learned from her mom) it has escalated a bit more. 

Re: depression - its not like she isn't motivated to take care of herself or the kids, she does do all that, but she can get overwhelmed, so I have to be intentional to not let things get overscheduled. I have suggested some kind of therapy to deal with her hanging on to sad issues around her (is that the same as IC?) but not sure where to look. I kinda figured a doctor might suggest someone. 

But the biggest part that I think is physical/chemical and might still need a drug or suppliment or hormone to fix is the lack of energy and lack of a previously existing sex drive.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

She needs individual therapy with a therapist who specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy. Not marriage counseling or marriage coaching.

You've listed many behaviors that are very similar to depression, but most particularly is the racing negative thoughts... That's depression/anxiety.

If she states that part of her goal of therapy is to gain her sex drive back, any meds that might be prescribed will be conducive to that.

FYI, don't know how long she's been on syntrhoid but that needs to be checked and you also have to realize that depression goes hand in hand with adjusting syntrhoid doses. Yes, sucks, big time,

In order for a woman to have a sex drive she has to have the basic brain chemistry that makes it possible. Hypothyroidism, syntrhoid to correct, subsequent depression, moodiness, lack of restful restorative sleep...you're lucky she still can orgasm. If she isn't getting the flood of bonding hormones when you two cuddle, that's another strong sign of depression.

You sound like a great husband who has a really good understanding on what's going on with your wife, so bravo on that. I urge you to put her initiating sex on the back burner for quite some time. Count your blessings that she she can enjoy sex and be confident that her sex drive will eventually come back, but it may take up to and more than a year. 

So: 
1. CBT therapy for depression/anxiety
2. Get new labs done.
3. Get hormone panel done to test her estrogen and testosterone as well. Hypothyroidism throws all of that out of whack.
4. She needs to drop the caffein ASAP. 1-2 cups only before lunch, none after lunch.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

Thanks so much Anon. That all makes sense. Except the Synthroid. Are you saying it can cause depression? Or that she may need more/less Synthroid to battle the depression? She has been on it about 4-5 years.

Also, what about the energy levels? That is one of the biggest things preventing more sex and it the tiredness leads to a lot of disagreements and stifles good conversation as many days its impossible to spend any quality alone time with her since she crashes before the kids 8:30 bedtime.


Also, I found an old poster named Mavash (Last activity in 2014). She said she used to suffer from depression and anger but beat it - there was a link to her story here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/48167-how-get-affection-intimacy-words-something.html
but the link doesn't work anymore. Do you know her story and how she was able to beat depression?


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

That's great advice from Anon. I've been like this in the past and it was hormones. The contraceptive injection. The Pill never agreed with me either. But the injection totally screwed my sex life up. Severely. 

So, a change in hormones could create this scenario.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You are not a doctor.

Your job is to make your wife happy in her marriage. This gives you the "political capital" to tell her you expect that you expect a fulfilling sex life in your marriage. It is her job to choose to become a wife that wants to provide her husband with a fulfilling sex life and work to get there.

It seems to me you and your wife went through a bad patch in your marriage which caused her to get turned off to you. Thus this is not a medical problem. You have to get her turned back on to you. You do this by providing her with an awesome life and communicating that from your side an awesome life includes awesome sex with your awesome wife.


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

While I know that Synthyroid is the standard treatment for hypothyroidism, she might seriously want to consider going to see a doctor who is willing to prescribe Armour or custom compounded. Speaking from vast personal experience, she might need a different blend or dosage than standard, but doctors are often willing to accept a wide window of "normal range" even if you still feel terrible.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

bc3543 said:


> Thanks so much Anon. That all makes sense. Except the Synthroid. Are you saying it can cause depression? Or that she may need more/less Synthroid to battle the depression? She has been on it about 4-5 years.
> 
> Also, what about the energy levels? That is one of the biggest things preventing more sex and it the tiredness leads to a lot of disagreements and stifles good conversation as many days its impossible to spend any quality alone time with her since she crashes before the kids 8:30 bedtime.
> 
> ...



Mavash. I miss her so much! She was one the most all time brilliant and perceptive members TAM ever had! She left TAM some time ago. I am familiar with her story but not the thread. She had some personal work to do, as most of us have, and she did it. She cleaned up her side of the street and worked to get her marriage back on track, and she did it.

Mavash attended therapy and took it seriously, and worked very hard at recognizing how her own negative thinking and circular logic and how that contributed to the depression, which is what cognitive behavioral therapy is all about. I don't recall if she took antidepressants or not. I think not though.

Physically, your wife is doing all the right things for herself. She is eating well, she is getting sunshine and exercise, she is communicating with you. So I think if she applies herself to CBT as well as she has with getting physically healthy, she will no doubt respond well.

Syntrhoid and depression... I don't know if there is a causation or correlation but the two seem to be linked quite often, anecdotally. The thyroid gland is what regulates every other organ function, so it stands to reason that when thyroid levels are off, so is every other organ function. Every one responds differently so it's possible that your wife's hormones are not in balance. This is why she should see her doctor and describe ALL of her symptoms so the proper lab work can be explored.


If you have medical insurance there should also be mental health benefits. Call your provider and ask for therapists in network. Check to see if you have EAP coverage, Employee Assistance Program. It give you a number of free therapy sessions.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> While I know that Synthyroid is the standard treatment for hypothyroidism, she might seriously want to consider going to see a doctor who is willing to prescribe Armour or custom compounded. Speaking from vast personal experience, she might need a different blend or dosage than standard, but doctors are often willing to accept a wide window of "normal range" even if you still feel terrible.


This is totally true! And good luck finding a doc who will consider custom compounding.

I swear there is some kind of link between female hormonal imbalance and thyroid replacement! I was in a major depression during the first two years or so of being on synthroid but when I got pregnant, which was a shock and surprise, at the 5 month my depression completely cleared up! Within a week it was completely gone and I had worked extremely hard in therapy. I hated being depressed and was trying anything and everything to get rid of it! I swear it was the balance of hormones at the 20 week gestation that finally kick started whatever was turned off.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

Hicks - I'm well aware of that theory as I've been operating under it for about 4 months. Yes we did go thru a bad patch in our marriage - just normal stuff, selfishness, petty fights, etc. And I've done and am doing all I know and can to fix that - including learning all I can. Frankly, I've given her a pretty awesome life. She appreciates all the work I have put in to help us, yet she at this point she can't come up with any more needs I can meet to help her feel better. FWIW, I grew up with a philosophy of whenever the wife is hurting or unhappy, its the husband's fault and the solution is always for him to do more, more, more, and better, better, better... 

I've tried backing off and giving her space for a couple years - this resulted in us becoming very unhappy roommates. Now I've switched to listening to her, and to her needs to meet them and clearly letting her know my needs and expectations. She is willing to meet my needs and seems to try pretty hard, but so often just feels physically unable at some level.

Add in that her marriage counselor and her own mother both think she could likely be depressed. Negative thoughts, constant fatigue, low drive overall, not just as it relates to me, and yes, more tiredness and fatigue even after trying to take naps or going to bed early. Sure, this could be several things, but at what point do I just realize it may be something I can't control by just being awesome and doing my job and by her choosing to do her job and that maybe she does need outside help?


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> This is totally true! And good luck finding a doc who will consider custom compounding.


It usually involves naturopaths or ayurvedic inclined doctors who usually aren't covered by insurance. (In my experience.) So it can be kind of an initial cost but long-term you save when you have less secondary symptoms that need managing.


----------



## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

The first thing that needs to get straightened out is her thyroid. 

Most GP's will only test her THS level and medicate based on that. You really need to study up on how the thyroid works. TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) is the hormone that stimulates your thyroid to produce hormones. When TSH is low your thyroid is supposed to kick up production. If her thyroid is not working her TSH level will be high. The thyroid produces many different hormones. The primary two are known as T4 and T3. Of the two T3 is the most reactive and primarily works in the brain. Synthroid is a synthetic T4 and relies on your body to convert the T4 to T3, some people do not convert well. Ask the doctor to test for TSH, Free T3 and Free T4. Consider using a natural thyroid replacement like Armour or a compounded natural pill. Thes will have both T4 and T3 and other hormones that may work better for her. Also make sure the Doc does not treat by the TSH numbers alone, go by how she FEELS. Some docs use a wide range on the TSH levels, she may need to be lower on the scale than others to feel good.

When my wife's thyroid was not treated correct she had many of the same symptoms as your wife. Read some of the books by Mary Shomon very good thyroid treatment advise


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

Thanks a lot AL. We are seeing a very open minded/natural supplement focused D.O. this Thursday for a follow up. She is the wife of the nutritionist dude. (Both are body builders  ). She tested my wife extensively in the spring and all her "hormone levels" were in the normal range. But we need to go back and look at where they actually fell in the range and see what was actually tested.

Also, what about Maca root extract? Has anyone tried this? There are some reports that women can reduce their thyroid meds after taking Maca for a while.


----------



## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Keep in mind that Armour and the compounded meds are made from desiccated pig thyroids that are blended and tested for proper dosage levels. They are natural treatments.

I believe what is now considered the normal range for TSH is 1-5. My wife feels best at 1.

I read up on Macca roost and was interested in having her try it but she did not want it. It is easier for her to take the natural meds. It also has claims of a libido boost as well.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

So we go to the D.O. this morning. She will probably order more labs, which I suppose means that we can't have any definitive answers for another week or two. I can't find her last set of labs from March (Dr should have a copy today), however, I did find a set from 3 years ago. The TSH was 3.33, but it lists "normal" as .50 to 4.50 so no adjustment was made at that time. T4 Free is 1.3 and T3 Free is 2.7. Those were in "normal" range as well, but I have no idea what she needs them to really be. This test was after being on Synthroid for 2 years. The dose has never been changed.


----------



## EVG39 (Jun 4, 2015)

You have already gotten great advice from Anon Pink above so there isn't much to add. Want to agree that this is clearly a medical issue and will take time and patience to line out. I will add that Depression in and of itself is often a libido killer and most of the drugs prescribed to treat it will put a nail in the libido coffin. The exception is Wellbrutin which is usually libido neutral and sometimes can even increase drive.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

PCOS wreaks havoc on a woman's body. . It sounds like you are both doing many of the right things. 

I agree with all of the recommendations from other posters. But you also need to be realistic that this may be the new "normal" for her. She may never fully get her sex drive back due to the PCOS. Medication can only do so much. CBT (as opposed to just counseling) will be very helpful.

I would also suggest saliva testing for her hormones. While blood serum testing is considered the "gold standard", it does NOT reflect the amount of hormone that is "bio-available" the way saliva testing does. So even if the ranges are normal, the hormone is useless if it's "bound" and not bio-available.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I feel best when my TSH is under 3. Don't let the "normal range" fool you.

I would suggest looking at progesterone v/s estrogen levels. Both can be in the normal range but if she is producing higher amounts of estrogen, bringing up the level of progesterone can combat the negativity and anger that being estrogen dominate can create. You can also do this with a natural compounded progesterone cream. You can buy it OTC but a good compounding pharmacy can do MUCH better. My insurance will not pay for it but at $50/month, it's worth it's weight in gold to me!


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

EVG39 said:


> You have already gotten great advice from Anon Pink above so there isn't much to add. Want to agree that this is clearly a medical issue and will take time and patience to line out. I will add that Depression in and of itself is often a libido killer and most of the drugs prescribed to treat it will put a nail in the libido coffin. The exception is Wellbrutin which is usually libido neutral and sometimes can even increase drive.



I have found that Celexa doesn't affect my libido. Perhaps has increased it a bit due to my better moods? Could be different for others though. Wellbutrin didn't really help me at all.


----------



## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Like I said earlier, don't treat to the so called normal ranges. Treat to how she feels for her thyroid. It will take a while to try different doses and see how they work. Usually wait a month after each dosage change. We found my felt best at around 1 on her TSH.

Get some books from Mary Shomon and study them. I think you need to get the thyroid fixed first and then look at the other hormones and meds. The thyroid can affect so many things including depression symptoms.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Always Learning said:


> I think you need to get the thyroid fixed first and then look at the other hormones and meds. The thyroid can affect so many things including depression symptoms.


I agree. If the thyroid isn't right, nothing else is right. No matter how "normal" the numbers appear. And I also agree -- much better to go by symptoms and how she feels rather than lab results. Some docs are slaves to those blasted lab reports and refuse to treat accordingly.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I dunno man.

I see a kind, gentle, patient man who listens to his wife, and is trying to support her through this.

Maybe too much. I see 'nice guy' enabling behaviour here, where you're actually rewarding her depressive behaviour. And what happens when you reward behaviour like that?

You get more of it. And you have. You're trying to push her boulder uphill, instead of letting her do it. It's her boulder.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

So the Dr reviewed the symptoms and the last lab and ordered a new set for TSH, T3/T4, Ferritin, and Progesterone/DHEA. We already had a diagnosis of Hashimoto's from last time, but didn't remember that one.

She said it sounds like clinical depression. But we want to get the other issues addressed as well. 

Get Ferritin up to 90. increase Iron suppliments. It was at 23 in March and is being retested.
Take pharma grade Vit D w/K2. Possibly cut the metformin in half as the A1C numbers (diabetic indicator) are back into the normal range.
And probably increase the Thyroid med. She mentioned switching to Armour. This will be based on lab results.
Progesterone cream is also a possibility but that has to be measured during the 2nd half of the cycle to get a good reading. The last test was inconclusive and the test taken today probably wont be any more accurate. We did re-order Progessense plus essential oil - she felt better when she used to use that, until she ran out.

We go back in a week to 10 days to discuss the labs, but she mentioned that she might prescribe either Wellbutrin or a little Adderall. Both of which seem to make sense in that we are trying to prevent any weight gain or loss of libido. She also said CBT would be helpful.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> I agree with all of the recommendations from other posters. But you also need to be realistic that this may be the new "normal" for her. She may never fully get her sex drive back due to the PCOS.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We aren't ready to accept that yet. See my above post - there are quite a few things to try.

That said, she has already had PCOS for 5-6 years and for most of that time, she has felt a lot better than she has this summer - in spite of being at a higher weight for the first 5 years. Metabolically, she is now healthier than she has ever been. But the times she has been her worst were times of stress ( I nearly died in an accident 2 years ago and she had a period that lasted for 6-8 weeks). But she came out of that.

This summer has been highly stressful as well, and while we are going to treat all the other issues with the appropriate meds/supplements, she said something the other night that gives me a lot of hope regarding libido. Basically we had a long walk/talk where I asked a bunch of questions and just tried to listen - she had to think really hard about her feelings and the why's. For the first 12 years or so she was always sex-positive or willing. Then something flipped and she started saying no a lot more. She admitted that was because of my behavior of ignoring the kids and some of her needs and she decided she didn't need to meet my needs anymore unless she wanted to. Classic case of her Love Bank hitting 0.

So I've fixed the neglect on my end and will continue to do so. She actually cares about getting her libido back now - though feels mostly limited by her fatigue - which can almost assuredly be fixed. And she has even started reading/talking about sex a little more - she had a long talk about HJ/BJ techniques with a girlfriend yesterday then I got quite a treat in the shower last night.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

marduk said:


> I dunno man.
> 
> I see a kind, gentle, patient man who listens to his wife, and is trying to support her through this.
> 
> ...


I do understand what you are saying. But I also feel a some guilt because I've been her boulder for a lot of years.

She wants to do stuff herself, but gets overwhelmed. If she needs meds, I'm going to push/pull her across that line to get the meds working and then hopefully she can manage a lot more on her own from there. I'm NOT going to just let her crawl in bed and sleep a ton and do nothing to treat her issues.

I'm also not going to let her avoid issues any longer. I've told her that I don't expect her to fix her temper or her sex attitudes tomorrow, but we do have to work on it. She is on board.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

bc3543 said:


> I do understand what you are saying. But I also feel a some guilt because I've been her boulder for a lot of years.
> 
> She wants to do stuff herself, but gets overwhelmed. If she needs meds, I'm going to push/pull her across that line to get the meds working and then hopefully she can manage a lot more on her own from there. I'm NOT going to just let her crawl in bed and sleep a ton and do nothing to treat her issues.
> 
> I'm also not going to let her avoid issues any longer. I've told her that I don't expect her to fix her temper or her sex attitudes tomorrow, but we do have to work on it. She is on board.


With all this talk about hormones this and that along with meds, while *this is horrible advice*, I wonder why more people do not explore some sort of therapy focused on adrenaline.










Before and After:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61PjrK1VUq8

Just like when bedridden patients can finally get up and walk, it helps everything in the body get back going. So for someone with anxiety or depression, a nice jolt of adrenaline would probably help balance them back out. 

While you should *not* take this advice, it should at least make for a fun discussion!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I know nothing about hormones or any of this other stuff. I'm sure there are women out there who have literally no sexual desire due to pure hormone issues.

I would also bet that there are many more women out there who will blame something like hormones when they lose desire for their husband, because it is less personal to blame it on something objective and medical rather than subjective and personal.

To me, the big question is whether your wife would have no desire for any other man if you weren't in the picture.

I think in almost all cases, the answer is it's just you, which is obviously very hard to accept.

You seem to have taken a look at your behaviors and tried to adjust them-- which is great. 

What else may have changed about you in the last few years which may have diminished attraction? Do you believe you are attractive to other women?


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

badsanta said:


> With all this talk about hormones this and that along with meds, while *this is horrible advice*, I wonder why more people do not explore some sort of therapy focused on adrenaline.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Badsanta - wow. I got a huge rush just watching that. 

On a related note, our counselors also gave her a homework assignment last week to come up with an adventure for the two of us to do together. To my knowledge she hasn't completed that assignment yet.

So far this week:
Best HJ of the year: success
Plan adventure: fail

Things could certainly be worse.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> What else may have changed about you in the last few years which may have diminished attraction? Do you believe you are attractive to other women?


Yes, I think I'm attractive enough for my age. Physique-wise, I've lost 15 lbs this year and work out several times a week. 6-2", 192 lbs. My wife frequently makes comments about how I look better than I have in over a decade. I do cardio boot camps plus free weights pull/chin-ups. She does like upper body muscle, and mine is probably only average. I seem to have a hard time building bulky muscle mass and am somewhat limited in how much I can ultimately lift due to a past hernia. Still, I'm about as strong at 39 as I have ever been in my life. So after working out I make a point of walking around the bedroom naked for her to look at. It doesn't turn her off.

The main thing that has gone downhill is probably my hair - I've been told that I'm developing a bald-spot on the very top, where I can't see it. I'm tall enough others can only see it when I'm sitting, but she notices and makes humorous comments sometimes. Sometimes she will rub essential oils on it to promote hair growth and give me a scalp massage, which feels awfully nice. I should probably suggest that she do this more often. It could conceivably lead to other things.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> You seem to have taken a look at your behaviors and tried to adjust them-- which is great.
> 
> What else may have changed about you in the last few years which may have diminished attraction? Do you believe you are attractive to other women?


After a little more thought, I guess its possible that my confidence level has changed - not always, but at least some of the time. This seems to be a frequent issue for guys if their wife starts saying No, so after a while, I didn't try nearly as often.

Maybe I became pretty good at noticing signs for when sex could happen, because it still did, only with less frequency. But the rather hopeless feeling of knowing that it wasn't going to happen well over half the time when I wanted or needed it and not even trying didn't do me any good.

On a few occasions I actually decided to quit trying until it was her idea. Once or twice, she actually jumped me, just like old times. But most of the time after several days she would just suggest that we have sex that night to improve our moods. Sometimes I would take her up on it and initiate physically, other times, I would just wait for her to get physical which might or might not actually happen. What do you call a woman asking for sex when she isn't turned on? Is that her just wanting to meet my needs out of love, or because she has an emotional but not physical need for sex or something else?


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I'm with you on the loss of confidence thing. It's unavoidable to some degree when your wife loses interest in you. It's happened to me too, so I definitely relate.

It might be that this is a pure hormone/depression thing, or it might be that this is a mask or it might be a combination of the two (she's not so into you anymore, knows that it is damaging your marriage, is depressed about the state of your marriage, depression causes further loss of libido, etc)

I guess my point is that I think you want to put yourself in the best possible footing so that you can isolate what the problem is (to the best of your ability).

This is a bit harsh-- but if she is making comments about balding, then she's probably not into it. Would she really tell you directly if she didn't like it? 

Can you get a really short haircut or even go totally shaved head?

Another seemingly superficial thing-- how are you dressing? Are you starting to look like a boring middle aged guy? Have you bought new clothes/shoes in recent years? Could you be more stylish but still look mature?

I think the clothes thing is tricky because it feels like you are trying too hard when you dress well (if you usually don't). However, after a while, dressing well becomes "you" so it stops feeling forced.

Maybe this is irrelevant to you, but I think a lot of men don't really make much effort on their appearance and I think women do notice this. There's a way to do it that is still masculine but a cut above your average dude. Again, disregard if this isn't you.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

Anon1111 said:


> Can you get a really short haircut or even go totally shaved head?


I have a very short hair cut. She hates comb-overs, so I go with buzzed on the sides and spiked on top. Although she usually wants it to be longer so she can run her fingers thru my hair and complains when its short, she actually said this week that the new cut looks nice. I probably will have to shave it all eventually, but I do have a nasty raised scar several inches long on the side of my head from my accident. This will make the shaved head interesting - maybe get a scalp tatoo?



Anon1111 said:


> Another seemingly superficial thing-- how are you dressing? Are you starting to look like a boring middle aged guy? Have you bought new clothes/shoes in recent years? Could you be more stylish but still look mature?


There could be some improvement made here. But my question would be how much effect there would be - specifically with her. I know she cares, but does it actually have an effect? She buys half my clothes and is particular about which of my clothes she likes and doesn't like, but I haven't noticed any correlation between when i wear more stylish clothes which she picked and her getting turned on. 

Similarly, she will complain about the look my of glasses about once a month and suggest I get a new pair, and then I will just take them off and wear contacts 24/7 for the next 30 days.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Propecia is your friend


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Maybe women can chime in, but I do think they notice how men dress. 

Dressing well authentically (not wearing a costume) shows that you "get it" and will also have the effect of boosting your confidence (which you admit you need-- understandably).

Also-- I am saying this with a desire to help, not to ding you--- there may be a side effect of letting your wife pick your clothes.

Yes, she is in theory getting you to look exactly how she wants, BUT you are not getting the benefit of demonstrating that you "get it" by dressing yourself in a way that is attractive.

I think this mental projection is really what it is all about. 

If I were you I would spend some money on some clothes YOU like that will make you look like a solid, mature guy.

At the very least, other women will notice and you will feel a confidence boost.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

john117 said:


> Propecia is your friend


I wonder if I could convince her that frequent sex increases T which will stimulate hair growth ? Anyone have a link to an article to that effect ?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

bc3543 said:


> I wonder if I could convince her that frequent sex increases T which will stimulate hair growth ? Anyone have a link to an article to that effect ?


If anything, increased T would lead to less hair growth. There's a reason they call it male pattern baldness.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

http://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(99)70188-X/abstract

Sorry.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> Maybe women can chime in, but I do think they notice how men dress.
> 
> Dressing well authentically (not wearing a costume) shows that you "get it" and will also have the effect of boosting your confidence (which you admit you need-- understandably).
> 
> ...


You raise a good point about a wife dressing her husband. When my husband is dressed well and looks good its because I picked his clothing and told him what to wear. I'm essentially complimenting my own taste when I compliment him. 

Learning to dress yourself well, all by yourself, shows independence, maturity and confidence. 

Speaking only for myself, I only notice how a man dresses if I have a strong reaction to it either positively or negatively. Most men dress rather blandly and they blend into the scenery as a result. Muted colors, muted patterns, dull fabrics... Nothing to notice.

1. Do not be afraid of colors. Even girly colors can demonstrate your confidence. 
2. Ditch the damn baseball caps unless you're actively engaged in a sport or activity that requires a cap!
3. Golf shirts are for golf...ONLY for golf!
4. Shoes!!! You must spend some decent money on good quality shoes. 
5. Athletic shoes, no matter how much they cost, do not count as good quality shoes.
6. Cargo shorts are for hiking!

A man with a less than good physique can be very attractive IF he dresses well and is well groomed.


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

there are so many variations of what "dressing well" means depending on your profession, social circle, physical build, etc.

I think the paramount thing for a guy is authenticity. If you can rock a pink shirt and feel confident doing so, then great. But you may be in a lifestyle where this is way off and will look gimmicky. then it has the opposite effect.

I think when women appreciate the well dressed guy, she is appreciating the guy who knows himself and knows how to highlight his best innate features through his appearance.

Women are all part of social circles too and their tastes in mens' appearances will reflect this.

So if you've got an upper income, urban/suburban woman, she may gravitate toward the executive look.

If you've got a country woman, she might prefer the cowboy thing. But put the cowboy boots on the executive guy or the Ferragamo shoes on the country man, you've now got two guys wearing costumes.

the one thing that I think is absolutely universal is YOU MUST WEAR CLOTHES THAT FIT.

I think women in general are FAR better than men at wearing clothes that are cut to make them look like they are in better physical shape than they really are.

By contrast, there are many men who are in good physical shape but you would never know it because they wear clothes that have no tailoring whatsoever.


----------



## bc3543 (Aug 24, 2015)

"By contrast, there are many men who are in good physical shape but you would never know it because they wear clothes that have no tailoring whatsoever."

That's good advice there. I'm a professional and wear business casual on a daily basis. During the fall/winter, it will get a little easier to dress well me bc I can wear solid, long sleeve, bright colored dress shirts and she digs those. I do need to buy a few new ones as last year's have worn out and several were thrown away. For dress slacks I don't know, she loves tighter jeans that emphasize my butt, but I can't see wearing slacks like that in the office.

It's too hot to to wear LS is the summer here, which leaves on having to wear either a SS dress shirt, which looks a little nerdy, a button down beachy shirt, which doesn't look very business like, or some version of a golf/polo, which I usually do wear.

For casual summer wear she likes solid colored t-shirts and shorts with flip flops. So I've mostly much given up the running shoes/cargo/gym shorts and XL football fan type grey t-shirts except when working out/hiking.


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

A couple of thoughts

first, if you're business casual, do you tend to err on the more "casual" side or on the more "business" side.

If you're typically on the more "casual" side of business casual, a simple change such as wearing sportcoats or full suits just minus the tie can make a big difference.

The great thing about suit jackets is that they mimic the ideal male physique. There is a reason women love guys in suits and military uniforms and it is not just the status part.

Also, if it's not weird for where you live, start wearing sport coats out in the evening instead of a casual jacket.

Second, on the dress shirts-- most of your focus should be on getting well fitting shirts. Look into custom shirts if you can't find a good fitting shirt in stores (there are sites that do this online now that are not very expensive). 

It is better to have 2 really good fitting shirts than 5 shirts that are cut like garbage bags. I used to just wear Brooks Brothers shirts but started to feel like I was at sail for how baggy they were all over.

A lot of French and Italian dudes will literally have 1 good suit that they wear all the time. Less is more. Make it stylish and make it fit well.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think that depression is just an excuse not to have sex. I could choose to be depressed to, there's certainly enough to be depressed about but I chose not to and to operate like a normal human being and to live up to my responsibilities instead of find ways and excuses to get around things I don't want to do.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> I think that depression is just an excuse not to have sex.[\QUOTE]
> 
> Really? What if you are clinically depressed because you aren't getting any?


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> While I know that Synthyroid is the standard treatment for hypothyroidism, she might seriously want to consider going to see a doctor who is willing to prescribe Armour or custom compounded. Speaking from vast personal experience, she might need a different blend or dosage than standard, but doctors are often willing to accept a wide window of "normal range" even if you still feel terrible.


Just a note to add to this. There are two kinds of Synthroid available. One is a synthetic, the other the natural hormone. The synthetic is a lot cheaper, but in some people it just doesn't work nearly as well as the natural.

Check which she's on and discuss with her doctor prescribing the natural product.


----------

