# What does emotional intimacy look like for men?



## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

This is a question for you men out there: I remember Dr. Phil once saying that women need to stop expecting their men to talk to them like girlfriends do. My husband does not listen like a girlfriend would, and it's been a constant source of disappointment for me. If I "vent" he tries to tell me how to fix it instead of sympathizing. If I tell a story about my day instead of just leaving it as "it was good" or "it was bad" his eyes glaze over at about the third sentence. 

The thing is, I think of the way in which I interact with my girlfriends as intimacy. I fear that if my husband and I cannot communicate like I do with my girlfriends that we cannot achieve true intimacy. What's your perspective on this?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Well you seem to know that intimacy for men does not come from speaking. 

Intimacy from men comes from contact. For us no contact = no intimacy.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> This is a question for you men out there: I remember Dr. Phil once saying that women need to stop expecting their men to talk to them like girlfriends do. My husband does not listen like a girlfriend would, and it's been a constant source of disappointment for me. If I "vent" he tries to tell me how to fix it instead of sympathizing. If I tell a story about my day instead of just leaving it as "it was good" or "it was bad" his eyes glaze over at about the third sentence.
> 
> The thing is, I think of the way in which I interact with my girlfriends as intimacy. I fear that if my husband and I cannot communicate like I do with my girlfriends that we cannot achieve true intimacy. What's your perspective on this?


Mars vs. Venus


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Well you seem to know that intimacy for men does not come from speaking.
> 
> Intimacy from men comes from contact. For us no contact = no intimacy.


I wonder if this true for majority of men? I know my H will tune me out when I am babbling on and on (I know I talk too much ) but there are time when I have his undivided attention and we have intimate conversation. Doesn't it depends on the subject matter?


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> I wonder if this true for majority of men? I know my H will tune me out when I am babbling on and on (I know I talk too much ) but there are time when I have his undivided attention and we have intimate conversation. Doesn't it depends on the subject matter?


Yep, it does. Many ladies will "tune out" when a guy babbles on about the "manly stuff". Ive seent the dull look in the eyes when I there in the tool shop on my weekly visit to pay homage to high speed, hand and surface fed router station (see, your glazing even as you read this:rofl

Some H's do actually listen. They are not touchy feelie like females about things. Men are critisised about getting in touch with their female side. But if they do they have to be able to switch it back to Alpha at the flick of an eye because.... they and some ladies fit guy.

It takes some learning for guys to tune in and stay focused. Not all can do it, and sometimes when we do we dont get it right because we doe sympathise in the right place or we see a problems that needs some masculine fixing


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

It is difficult for a man to listen and not try to "fix" whatever the problem is that his wife/gf is discussing. We are action driven and want to find a solution.

It took me years to realize that women sometimes just want to vent and get all of their feelings out. As a guy, it is difficult to listen to and not take action. I have learned that if my wife calls or wants to talk, to just sit and listen and give support. I try to give her my full attention so that she can get it out. 

It is a learned behavior and some guys never figure it out.




firebelly1 said:


> The thing is, I think of the way in which I interact with my girlfriends as intimacy. I fear that if my husband and I cannot communicate like I do with my girlfriends that we cannot achieve true intimacy. What's your perspective on this?


There is a reason that lesbians report they have a deeper, more intimate relationships. They understand the communication required for a woman to achieve 'true intimacy'


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

It's funny, sometimes my wife thinks sex is just this thing I "want from her." But I don't see it that simply -- I feel further away from her when we don't have sex and closer to her when we do. It's not that sex is the only way I connect, it's just an important part of the picture.

Agree with above about how men have to "learn" to listen the way women want, and it's still not easy.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

So when I say "emotional" intimacy, what does that mean for you as a man? Do you see sexual intimacy as being equivalent to emotional intimacy? 

I see emotional intimacy as sharing every (or most) aspect of yourself with the other person and them demonstrating acceptance of all those parts and vice versa. i.e. you can trust the other person with your weaknesses. To know and be known.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

This isnt going to be the ideal solution but for me, I have just learned to turn that side of myself off for the most part. I dont discuss things with my H that I know hes not interested in. Such as my work day. I wont vent to him if its been a bad day I just suck it up and quietly deal with it myself. I find it extremely hurtful when he gives me the eyes glazed over tuning me out treatment so I just stopped subjecting myself to it. When we need to discuss an issue (read: not vent, actually come up with a solution to something that directly involves him) I have a very pointed conversation with him that is as brief as possible and directly to the point so I don't give him a chance to tune me out. 

For me I am trying to change my own expectations because it is easier than trying to change him. I have become a lot more quiet and introspective and I think he likes that. Less pressure on him to struggle through not hurting my feelings! I am very jealous at times when I read about husbands who enjoy talking with their wives but I also realize that I chose him, faults and all, and there are a ton of other things hes good at...This just isn't one of them.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

kag123 said:


> This isnt going to be the ideal solution but for me, I have just learned to turn that side of myself off for the most part. I dont discuss things with my H that I know hes not interested in. Such as my work day. I wont vent to him if its been a bad day I just suck it up and quietly deal with it myself. I find it extremely hurtful when he gives me the eyes glazed over tuning me out treatment so I just stopped subjecting myself to it. When we need to discuss an issue (read: not vent, actually come up with a solution to something that directly involves him) I have a very pointed conversation with him that is as brief as possible and directly to the point so I don't give him a chance to tune me out.
> 
> For me I am trying to change my own expectations because it is easier than trying to change him. I have become a lot more quiet and introspective and I think he likes that. Less pressure on him to struggle through not hurting my feelings! I am very jealous at times when I read about husbands who enjoy talking with their wives but I also realize that I chose him, faults and all, and there are a ton of other things hes good at...This just isn't one of them.


But if all you ever talk about is logistics, how is that intimacy? I have tried what you're talking about and it makes me feel emotionally distant from him. If you aren't talking about things that really interest you with that person, aren't you just roommates who have sex?


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## sparkyjim (Sep 22, 2012)

Your husband can learn to listen to you in a way that will help you to feel validated. There are books out there on the subject.

With my ex I learned how to listen to her. We had a great relationship as far as connecting mentally.

What we did not have was a good sex life, and that eventually doomed the relationship.

My point is that a man can learn to communicate, and SHOULD learn to communicate. But he will also still be a man and will still place a higher value on the physical connection.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

firebelly1 said:


> So when I say "emotional" intimacy, what does that mean for you as a man? Do you see sexual intimacy as being equivalent to emotional intimacy?


You have pretty much hit the nail on the head. 

Women like to share emotions and feelings to gain that sense of intimacy. Men are more action driven and find intimacy in physical bonding (sex). The hormones are good for both but I feel closer to my wife after sex than after talking.

This is not universal by any stretch, but if you look at the volume of complaints by men, it is that they are not getting enough sex to feel close to their wives. If you asked their wive's, I bet they would say that their husbands are not giving them enough 'emotional intimacy' to make them feel like having sex. A two way street that is difficult for a lot of couples to navigate.

This is one of those areas that a discussion between a couple can be of benefit. But for it to work, you have to speak in your spouse's language for them to understand. For example, men don't speak emotional intimacy, they think you are talking about sex. There is a book called, "The 5 love Languages" that can help describe those languages. Could be good for both spouses to read.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You should read the book "5 Love Languages". Right now.

Your husband is wired to fix stuff. So when you are unhappy about something he interprets it as there is something to be fixed.

Be direct with him. In a kind, loving, non-accusatory way tell him that you appreciate that he cares about you being upset, and that you appreciate his response is to fix things in order to remove the cause of your upset. However, what you really need from him is to listen and understand what it is you tell him. You do not want him to fix anything, you just need an ear to listen to your frustrations. The act of telling him is what fixes it for you.

And then when he does listen without fixing, reward him with a thank you, a smile, or a hug. Those are the kinds of things which will tickle his intimacy neurons.

(Note that in 5LL the author mistakenly in my opinion lumps sex in with touch. Sex in fact encompasses all the other languages, and itself is another love language. If your husband is a touch person he will get a serious charge out of a hug or holding hands.)


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

firebelly1 said:


> This is a question for you men out there: I remember Dr. Phil once saying that women need to stop expecting their men to talk to them like girlfriends do. My husband does not listen like a girlfriend would, and it's been a constant source of disappointment for me. If I "vent" he tries to tell me how to fix it instead of sympathizing. If I tell a story about my day instead of just leaving it as "it was good" or "it was bad" his eyes glaze over at about the third sentence.
> 
> The thing is, I think of the way in which I interact with my girlfriends as intimacy. I fear that if my husband and I cannot communicate like I do with my girlfriends that we cannot achieve true intimacy. What's your perspective on this?


It has been said that women need to connect to have sex and that men must have sex to connect.

For me this is true. Sex is an emotional binding thing for me. But I will take it further. Intimacy is what we are talking about. Intimacy is critical to me. I would not want to live life without it. So this is an emotional and physical thing.

Those who think men are not emptional are completely clueless. Men can be very stoic indeed. Many of us were brought up to suck it up, never cry and engage your enemies with coldness. yes fine. But for most it is about wearing the armor. But there are times that the armor is removed. In fact not to do say equates a man with his armor. Which is totally false.

If someone threatens my family, I will put myself in harms way and engage the threat. I will run into that burning building. This is cold hearted in one way but the motivation is emotional.

My wife doing acts of service is nice but what matters is her physical and emotional intimacy with me. Sex being a big part of it but the rest is just foreplay and bonding.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> This is a question for you men out there: I remember Dr. Phil once saying that women need to stop expecting their men to talk to them like girlfriends do. My husband does not listen like a girlfriend would, and it's been a constant source of disappointment for me. If I "vent" he tries to tell me how to fix it instead of sympathizing. If I tell a story about my day instead of just leaving it as "it was good" or "it was bad" his eyes glaze over at about the third sentence.
> 
> The thing is, I think of the way in which I interact with my girlfriends as intimacy. I fear that if my husband and I cannot communicate like I do with my girlfriends that we cannot achieve true intimacy. What's your perspective on this?


First, have you told your DH what you just stated above (1st paragraph)? I noticed someone already posted the 5LL as a reference which discusses the 'what' but now the 'how'. Emotional intimacy (which can be learned) is supported by being: 

1) Available (got to be in the room)
2) Responsive (giving your full attention via acknowledgements)
3) Engaged (tell me more?)

Hold Me Tight by Dr. Sue Johnson

I am a fixer/rescuer by nature or nurture. Most of the time my wife wants to vent, sometimes she wants help. I do not guess, ever. I simply assume she wants to vent, but when she is done venting, I ask, "Would you like help working this out"? Kindest Regards-


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Emotional intimacy; She can just sense my mood. It’s a whole unspoken language and deeper connection of emotions. She is tuned in to me and the vibe around me. And visa-versa.

We both sense these things, and have been around each other long enough that we know the ‘right action’ to help each other out. With her, at least when it’s work, it’s me just being that shoulder to complain to and vomit it all out. When it’s us, she’s more of a small actions type of person; Like knowing she could really use a glass of wine so I’ll surprise her with her favorite bottle. What works for me is different actions; often her just curling up to me and whispering sweet nothings works well. Sex is another. Basically reaffirming actions that at least in her head, I’m a prize worth the effort.

And there is a massive distinction between who she was and who she is now. In the past, when she’d sense these ‘funks’, she’d go into self-preservation mode. The thoughts weren’t about how she might help me, they were about damage controlling how they might affect her. I’ve never felt so alone and unsupported.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> So when I say "emotional" intimacy, what does that mean for you as a man? Do you see sexual intimacy as being equivalent to emotional intimacy?
> 
> I see emotional intimacy as sharing every (or most) aspect of yourself with the other person and them demonstrating acceptance of all those parts and vice versa. i.e. you can trust the other person with your weaknesses. To know and be known.


I think there are two key parts of this: one is the "vice versa" -- you are available to your partner and accepting of his flaws too, and it's not just about you getting to feel "intimate" by unloading your troubles on him. The other one is what I would call, sorry to be crass, the "do not fart in my face" principle. In other words, sharing each other's weaknesses and flaws and accepting them doesn't mean that either member of the relationship should have to tolerate the other's negatives all the time, on demand.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

If there's a problem, there's two things you can do: Try to solve it (fix), or not try to solve it. Talk to a man about solving it- it's how we're wired. If you don't want to solve it, then talk to a woman- It's how they are wired.

I've known for years that women generally expect men to communicate on the woman's level, but generally will not talk to a guy on his level- it's more or less a fact. The reality is that men and women are different, and I cannot display enough frustration at how you women sabotage yourselves (and your man) when you want him to be a woman or a man at the drop of a dime, yet never see the hypocrisy that you yourselves aren't willing to even try when it comes to your turn.

It's pretty damn ironic.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> So when I say "emotional" intimacy, what does that mean for you as a man? Do you see sexual intimacy as being equivalent to emotional intimacy?


100 men will give you 100 different answers and none will match your DH's response. Sex is powerful for men because it is simultaneous physical and emotional intimacy. That said, it is not by any measure, the only means by which emotional experience is shared. The 5LL can be a tool for discovering 'what fills your love tank'. As you have experienced, having a solution proposed when you want to vent, "empties the love tank" if only a little. Have some fun with this and allow for some silliness. Kindest Regards-


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Jung_admirer said:


> Hold Me Tight by Dr. Sue Johnson


Yes, that is an excellent book referral!


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: What does emotional intimacy look like for men?*



Kaboom said:


> If there's a problem, there's two things you can do: Try to solve it (fix), or not try to solve it. Talk to a man about solving it- it's how we're wired. If you don't want to solve it, then talk to a woman- It's how they are wired.
> 
> I've known for years that women generally expect men to communicate on the woman's level, but generally will not talk to a guy on his level- it's more or less a fact. The reality is that men and women are different, and I cannot display enough frustration at how you women sabotage yourselves (and your man) when you want him to be a woman or a man at the drop of a dime, yet never see the hypocrisy that you yourselves aren't willing to even try when it comes to your turn.
> 
> It's pretty damn ironic.


This is kind of where my response was coming from, only I did a poor job of explaining it. 

The article that was posted was excellent, btw, and very moving. However I have decided in my own marriage for the time being that I will not make any requests of my husband, I will simply learn how to handle myself and how to meet my own needs in this department. 

The exercises described in the article, to pause and reflect, to understand where your visceral reactions are rooted and what your deepest fears are, are all things that can be done on your own just for yourself. This is what I spend my mental energy doing. 

When I think about starting a conversation with my husband that is likely to be unproductive or cause us both to feel frustrated, I stop and reflect. Is venting at length really going to make me feel better, or is it just going to open the wounds? Is whatever I want to talk about important enough to warrant sharing, or is it going to cause us both frustration? Is there something I can do on my own to make myself feel better without bringing this problem into my home life? 

I feel it is important to balance what I ask of my husband. He cannot be expected to fill every void in my life...isnt that my responsibility? He cannot be expected to guess when he's supposed to be my rock and protector vs. when he's supposed to be a girlfriend to sit and gossip with? I don't want my husband to feel frustrated and like he cannot possibly please me. It makes us both feel bad. I dont want him to have to put on an act and simultaneously juggle four different personalities trying to guess which one I may want at the moment. I want him to be comfortable and to be himself. 

In my case, it just so happens "himself" = a quiet and reserved guy with a distaste for excess conversation. 

I chose to marry him and I feel that I should celebrate his strengths and learn how to live with his weaknesses.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

When I have more sex with my wife, it makes me feel more open to her in other ways -- I'm more likely to share my feelings with her or tell her about things I'm thinking.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm having a hard time getting my head around how sexual intimacy equals emotional intimacy. Especially since my DH is the LD partner in our relationship.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I know many won't agree with my opinion on this matter. But believe me I'm trying to be as honest and direct as possible. Emotional intimacy for a man cannot be acheived by converstation alone. We don't form emotional bonds unless there is physical bonds associated to it. We can seperate the two, but guys don't want to be married to talking buddies anymore than they want to be married to a F buddy.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

firebelly1 said:


> I'm having a hard time getting my head around how sexual intimacy equals emotional intimacy. Especially since* my DH is the LD partner *in our relationship.


If he is LD I feel very sorry for you. It means that you have to do all of the heavy lifting in the relationship. And that is not fair.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

C3156 said:


> It is difficult for a man to listen and not try to "fix" whatever the problem is that his wife/gf is discussing. We are action driven and want to find a solution.
> 
> It took me years to realize that women sometimes just want to vent and get all of their feelings out. As a guy, it is difficult to listen to and not take action. I have learned that if my wife calls or wants to talk, to just sit and listen and give support. I try to give her my full attention so that she can get it out.


and sometimes... its a nail. 

It's Not About The Nail - YouTube


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> I'm having a hard time getting my head around how sexual intimacy equals emotional intimacy. Especially since my DH is the LD partner in our relationship.


I think I see where your thoughts are leading you. I am going to refer to you page 61 of James Hollis', "The Middle Passage":

The Middle Passage: From Misery to Meaning in Midlife - James Hollis - Google Books

This is perhaps the single greatest page ever written about nurturing a loving relationship. Allow me to highlight the point you are stuck on: 

"Radical conversation is what a long-term commitment is about. With or without a wedding ceremony, true marriage is seldom achieved without radical conversation. Only radical conversation, the full sharing of what it is to be me while hearing what it is really like to be you, can fulfill the promise of an intimate relationship. One can only engage in radical conversation if one has taken responsibility for oneself, has some self-awareness, and has the tensile strength to withstand a genuine encounter with the truly Other"

OK, take a deep breath... Some people are ready for this level of intimacy at the time they marry, we can call them securely attached individuals. Most people are ready for this level of intimacy at about mid-life. Before that, we are lost in our own projections, lacking the ego strength to take responsibility for our own psychological well-being. (sounds like a lot of psycho-babble, I know) How long have you been together?

It appears you desire and are ready for radical conversation, but perhaps your partner is not. You can lead by example and talk about your world. You may ask your partner questions to draw him out, but he will only go as far as his ego will allow. You cannot force this as the ability to allow vulnerability grows with time and emotional maturity. IC can address the emotional maturity but you need a certain amount of ego strength before you would consider it. Does this help at all?


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## oviid (Sep 27, 2013)

I struggle with this. My wife will come home and talk about work, and talk, talk...so I try to act interested but sometimes it's hard. She really likes to talk about herself. The thing is I really love her but I have a difficult time connecting with whatever that is. I am a man. I think differently. For me when you say "here's the problem," I want to say, "well here's the solution, thank me later." 

For me that "connection" is made in bed. That might sound bad but I don't know, isn't that how it is with most guys? 

I think the idea is us guys need to just listen, that's all. If we are able to provide that need they are more likely to provide our needs.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

firebelly1 said:


> This is a question for you men out there: I remember Dr. Phil once saying that women need to stop expecting their men to talk to them like girlfriends do. My husband does not listen like a girlfriend would, and it's been a constant source of disappointment for me. If I "vent" he tries to tell me how to fix it instead of sympathizing. If I tell a story about my day instead of just leaving it as "it was good" or "it was bad" his eyes glaze over at about the third sentence.
> 
> The thing is, I think of the way in which I interact with my girlfriends as intimacy. I fear that if my husband and I cannot communicate like I do with my girlfriends that we cannot achieve true intimacy. What's your perspective on this?


 Your husband is not a woman. Stop expecting him to be one. 

Present a man with a problem, and he, by nature, tries to fix it. Men do not sit around and ask for sympathy or want it, generally. When we describe problems, we're asking for solutions. 

He CAN learn to understand you better... and in turn, YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO SPEAK SO HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOU WANT. It's not all on him, it's not all on you, but both of you have to learn about and adjust your communications skills to understand each other.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

firebelly1 said:


> So when I say "emotional" intimacy, what does that mean for you as a man?


It's learning to trust you. I do not "share" my emotions by nature. I'm not wired that way. I do not trust them, they lie. I know what I want to be and how I want to be, and emotions are fickle and unreliable. 

If you want a guy to be emotionally connected, you have to earn his trust. That's a process that includes him learning whether you turn on him emotionally when things are rough.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

Racer said:


> Emotional intimacy; She can just sense my mood. It’s a whole unspoken language and deeper connection of emotions. She is tuned in to me and the vibe around me. And visa-versa.
> 
> We both sense these things, and have been around each other long enough that we know the ‘right action’ to help each other out. With her, at least when it’s work, it’s me just being that shoulder to complain to and vomit it all out. When it’s us, she’s more of a small actions type of person; Like knowing she could really use a glass of wine so I’ll surprise her with her favorite bottle. What works for me is different actions; often her just curling up to me and whispering sweet nothings works well. Sex is another. Basically reaffirming actions that at least in her head, I’m a prize worth the effort.
> 
> And there is a massive distinction between who she was and who she is now. In the past, when she’d sense these ‘funks’, she’d go into self-preservation mode. The thoughts weren’t about how she might help me, they were about damage controlling how they might affect her. I’ve never felt so alone and unsupported.


This reminds me that my wife struggles endlessly to figure out what I'm thinking and how I feel. 

Of course, I find that infuriating. What I think and how I feel are in MY head, not hers, and I'll share what I want to, and I'll thank you very much to NOT just imagine the parts I don't share. 

Or, at least that's how I'm wired to respond. I try, but rarely succeed at believing that when she says "You always forget to (blah)" that it means she's frustrated about me forgetting something, and not just accusing me of really bad behavior. But sometimes she really is accusing me of very bad thinking, as she's been "mind reading" again 

Nothing infuriates me more than having her tell me about all the bad stuff I think or mean or whatever. I think she's trying to say "that's how it looks to me". 

But that's not the words mean in MY perception.

Again, for us to communicate involves BOTH OF US learning new communications behaviors.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

oldgeezer said:


> It's learning to trust you. I do not "share" my emotions by nature. I'm not wired that way. I do not trust them, they lie. I know what I want to be and how I want to be, and emotions are fickle and unreliable.
> 
> If you want a guy to be emotionally connected, you have to earn his trust. That's a process that includes him learning whether you turn on him emotionally when things are rough.


Especially since a lot of women DO turn on men when they get too emotional. Women often don't want a man to show too much weakness - listen like a girlfriend but don't talk like one.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

firebelly1 said:


> So when I say "emotional" intimacy, what does that mean for you as a man? Do you see sexual intimacy as being equivalent to emotional intimacy?
> 
> I see emotional intimacy as sharing every (or most) aspect of yourself with the other person and them demonstrating acceptance of all those parts and vice versa. i.e. you can trust the other person with your weaknesses. To know and be known.


OP,
It's very common to see things this way.

If you decide that you only feel emotional intimacy by talking sharing all the details of your day, and your husband decides he only feels emotional intimacy by having sex, then if you BOTH don't see each other's point of view you both miss out.

As much as you "see" emotional intimacy as demonstrating acceptance, it means accepting that he MIGHT not see it that way himself. Peace.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My husband feels *emotional intimacy* through Touch, Sex , our communication...and us doing things together, sharing memories ... he is a good listener - and always sensitive to my needs.. 

I married a man geared more Beta over Alpha... which likely explains why he is this way....but this works for me.. I would be wholly frustrated with a man who I sensed didn't enjoy listening to all my BS , questions, bantering, and spending time with family....

His primary Love Language is *Touch* and *Time*...so this is how he feels / intimacy from me. 

We both share freely about our day when he gets home from work....anything funny, juicy, if the boss was giving the guys a hard time, crazy things the co-workers say/do... many of these conversations bring laughter... This is all intimacy for me & him..


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> "Radical conversation is what a long-term commitment is about. With or without a wedding ceremony, true marriage is seldom achieved without radical conversation. Only radical conversation, the full sharing of what it is to be me while hearing what it is really like to be you, can fulfill the promise of an intimate relationship. One can only engage in radical conversation if one has taken responsibility for oneself, has some self-awareness, and has the tensile strength to withstand a genuine encounter with the truly Other"
> 
> OK, take a deep breath... Some people are ready for this level of intimacy at the time they marry, we can call them securely attached individuals. Most people are ready for this level of intimacy at about mid-life. Before that, we are lost in our own projections, lacking the ego strength to take responsibility for our own psychological well-being. (sounds like a lot of psycho-babble, I know) How long have you been together?
> 
> It appears you desire and are ready for radical conversation, but perhaps your partner is not. You can lead by example and talk about your world. You may ask your partner questions to draw him out, but he will only go as far as his ego will allow. You cannot force this as the ability to allow vulnerability grows with time and emotional maturity. IC can address the emotional maturity but you need a certain amount of ego strength before you would consider it. Does this help at all?


We've been married for 7 years, dated off and on before that for 7 years. Radical conversation IS what I'm after. My DH seems to be more ready than he has been to be honest and open about himself, but not necessarily to listen to me being honest and open about me - but it's possible, as some of the posts suggest, that it is my approach and my expectation for sympathy as opposed to maybe a deeper connection. Being SEEN doesn't necessarily have to translate into me complaining and him sympathizing.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I think there's a real balance to be struck in terms of sharing all of our inner thoughts and fears too. For example, there are occasional days when I feel like a real incompetent schmuck at my job, and I can feel pretty lousy on those days, but I don't just come home and tell my wife that, because she is also looking to me as a provider, and I don't want to make her anxious about my ability to provide.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

oldgeezer said:


> It's learning to trust you. I do not "share" my emotions by nature. I'm not wired that way. I do not trust them, they lie. I know what I want to be and how I want to be, and emotions are fickle and unreliable.
> 
> If you want a guy to be emotionally connected, you have to earn his trust. That's a process that includes him learning whether you turn on him emotionally when things are rough.


Hm, I'd never thought of it this way. He needs to trust that I won't turn on him emotionally when things are rough. I kind of get that, but do you mean I need to not get mad at him or complain? What do you mean by that?


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

John Lee said:


> I think there's a real balance to be struck in terms of sharing all of our inner thoughts and fears too. For example, there are occasional days when I feel like a real incompetent schmuck at my job, and I can feel pretty lousy on those days, but I don't just come home and tell my wife that, because she is also looking to me as a provider, and I don't want to make her anxious about my ability to provide.


I gotta respect that. On the other hand, the fact that my DH doesn't share his internal struggles with me makes me feel like he doesn't trust me.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Firebelly, going back and reading your OP again, I wonder if maybe you're making this too abstract -- trying to achieve some ideal of "true intimacy" instead of identifying the thing that you need. It sounds to me like really what you're saying is "I want my husband to be a better listener" or a different kind of listener anyway, because he is your partner, and you have a need to vent or talk things through sometimes. It sounds like that's what bothers you. I don't hear you saying "It bothers me that my husband isn't sharing his emotions with me more." 

This might sound irritating, but I would suggest that you just keep patiently explaining to him that you want him to listen, not to offer solutions. Eventually it may get through to him.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Was it Chris Rock who put it best?

"Just nod and say:
- Yup.
- Uh huh.
- I told you that b!tch crazy!"


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Emotional intimacy to my husband is touching/the physical.

Being listened to and feeling safe - being able to be himself, taking risks and not worry about being judged, being vulnerable.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Men are emotionally intimate right after sex AKA "pillow talk". I recommend that you vent your feelings during cuddle time and stop expecting us to be your GF's. 

BTW: Men are biologically designed to be problem solvers. Imagine a world where men were just as emotional as women and wanted to just talk problems to death instead of fixing it. We would still be in mud huts.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

heartsbeating said:


> Emotional intimacy to my husband is touching/the physical.
> 
> Being listened to and feeling safe - being able to be himself, taking risks and not worry about being judged, being vulnerable.


This woman gets it! Please tell me we can clone you and spread your DNA across the land!


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> Emotional intimacy to my husband is touching/the physical.
> 
> Being listened to and feeling safe - being able to be himself, taking risks and not worry about being judged, being vulnerable.


:iagree:
Well voiced heartsbeating, youve nailed it much better than we males could have.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Sanity said:


> This woman gets it! Please tell me we can clone you and spread your DNA across the land!


Oh I've just listened to my husband, that's all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Sanity said:


> This woman gets it! Please tell me we can clone you and spread your DNA across the land!


Um...I do that. I am a GREAT listener. Doesn't mean I get it back. 

I've gotten lots of good responses considering what my original question was but nothing's really hitting the mark for me and I wonder if its 'cause I'm not asking the question right. Let me see if I can come at this from a different angle:

My DH and I had our second attempt-at-reconciliation marriage counseling session the other night and the counselor described things this way: I have a big emotional hula-hoop. I'm comfortable with experiencing a wide range of emotions from other people and myself. My DH's hula hoop is smaller. (Hula-hoop being counselor's metaphor.) Counselor says if DH doesn't widen his hula-hoop there's a good chance our underlying conflicts will continue. 

Her suggestion for how he can widen his hula-hoop - join a group of some sort; experience other people interrupting his train of thought with their personal feelings and agendas. 

Does that help anyone see where I might be coming from or just make things more confusing?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Sorry, but that is one of the least clarifying metaphors I have ever heard in my life.


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## pinotnoir (Jul 13, 2013)

John Lee said:


> It's funny, sometimes my wife thinks sex is just this thing I "want from her." But I don't see it that simply -- I feel further away from her when we don't have sex and closer to her when we do. It's not that sex is the only way I connect, it's just an important part of the picture.
> 
> Agree with above about how men have to "learn" to listen the way women want, and it's still not easy.


I agree...


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

John Lee said:


> Sorry, but that is one of the least clarifying metaphors I have ever heard in my life.


Same.


Op: Huh? What did the counselor mean by that.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Sorry, but that is one of the least clarifying metaphors I have ever heard in my life.


 My one-sided take on it is that my DH is 44. Ours is the only long-term relationship he's ever been in. He has self-medicated with marijuana since he was 14 and emotional intelligence isn't his strong suit so if I indicate in any way that I have expectations of him, it's uncomfortable and he labels it as "needy" and "demanding." What is really just a normal, human range of emotions on my part is seen as neurosis by him because his emotional palette is so undeveloped. Better metaphor? (ish)


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Is your counselor a woman? I just can't imagine a man coming up with the phrase "emotional hula hoop"


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

firebelly1 said:


> So when I say "emotional" intimacy, what does that mean for you as a man? Do you see sexual intimacy as being equivalent to emotional intimacy?
> 
> *I see emotional intimacy as sharing every (or most) aspect of yourself with the other person and them demonstrating acceptance of all those parts and vice versa. i.e. you can trust the other person with your weaknesses. To know and be known.*


I believe you are spot on here. This is what is so disappointing in my own relationship. My wife is convinced we are great communicators but after 27 years I do not see much depth there to be honest with you. Now the intimacy she has with her female friends is a different story and I believe the intimacy she had with her lover prior to meeting me. I am afraid I fall short at the end of the day. She will never be vulnerable enough to figure our why in my opinion.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> My husband feels *emotional intimacy* through Touch, Sex , our communication...and us doing things together, sharing memories ... he is a good listener - and always sensitive to my needs..
> 
> I married a man geared more Beta over Alpha... which likely explains why he is this way....but this works for me.. I would be wholly frustrated with a man who I sensed didn't enjoy listening to all my BS , questions, bantering, and spending time with family....
> 
> ...


SA would you please be my wife's therapist?


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

MrAvg said:


> She sounds like a counselor we went to at a rough time in our marriage. Goofy is the best way to describe the first and last session.
> 
> Men tend to come home and want time to themselves. About 30-45 minutes to decompress. Where as many women want to come home and vent right away. Once answer maybe to let hubby come home have some time to himself before you talk about your day. He likely will be more receptive to listening.
> 
> One other thing came out was a HD hubby is always more willing to listen for long periods of time if he has been well laid for a protracted period.


To be fair to my counselor - the goofy metaphors aren't her usual MO. She has been very helpful in other ways. 

My H does need time to decompress but his schedule is two twelve hour days and then 2 twelve hour nights, then four days off. For the 4 days he's working and the day right after his final night shift he is essentially unavailable. Somewhat understandable considering his schedule but still puts a wrench in things communication wise. For the three days off he has a week he is resentful if I want him to do anything (fun or otherwise) during that time. 

As I alluded to before, I am the HD partner in our relationship - although it's not physical - he masturbates on a regular basis just doesn't want to have sex with me as often as I'd like. To complicate things even further, he was diagnosed with ADD this last year. 

So, maybe I didn't ask the question right - it's not so much about does he listen like a girlfriend, it's more about how I get him to prioritize me. How do I get him to really hear me and value what I have to say? As I write that I realize you all can't really help me with that. He either does or he doesn't. He's either willing to give me the amount of time and attention that makes me feel loved in the relationship, or he's not.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It's Not About The Nail - YouTube


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

I see your video and raise you a picture..


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

firebelly1 said:


> Hm, I'd never thought of it this way. He needs to trust that I won't turn on him emotionally when things are rough. I kind of get that, but do you mean I need to not get mad at him or complain? What do you mean by that?


What I mean, is that you don't turn on him. That is, use what you know of him inside to wound him. Trusting someone is a vulnerability. If he allows that vulnerability, and you use it to hurt him, he'll close it off. Do it more than a few times, and it is closed permanently. 

For instance, when my wife dredges stuff up from eons ago and uses it to lash out at me, I close up and close off. I have tried, and tried to explain to her that it's a defense mechanism to prevent getting hurt. And her response? She never has one. It's one of those things I just cannot understand. 

Over the years she's done things that didn't just wound, but stabbed me clear to emotional "heart", but I forgave her, and those things are never mentioned again, I don't think of them or about them anymore, nor do I mention them to her. But, she routinely goes back 20+ years to accuse me of being (whatever) and uses things that happened back then to justify being angry at me. And, every time, I find that the matter at hand has NOTHING to do with me, at all. She overdrew the bank account, or damaged something, or she got into a fight with one of the kids, or, as happened a few days ago, she got a "D" score on a test, and came home and started in listing everything wrong, and how it was my fault. 

It took HOURS before she finally told me she got a D. Yeah, I can understand her being disturbed. That's a serious thing for her and her academic success. But why did she have to come home and start in on the " you never do (blah). And "You always (blah). And "why can't you ever put anything where it belongs?" ( It was a dish put away in the wrong place.) And "Why does the sink have to be dirty?" (there was a large bowl in it and one pan that didn't fit in the dishwasher that would run through next time). 

Maybe you can now understand. She takes it out on me, and vents her anger and frustration by verbally attacking ME for what goes wrong for her. That's one example of "turning on me". I didn't do anything wrong. But by the time she was home 5 minutes I made myself scarce. What's more, is that she wants me to help her, but she NEVER, EVER apologizes for blaming me for her failures. I don't even think she realizes she does it. When I try to explain what I get angry about, she insists that she never does any such thing. 

That stuff doesn't matter to me in the slightest.. Unless it is someone I care about and do so in such a way that I'm vulnerable to being hurt by them. And then close up and go away and it takes me a LONG time to get past it.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

firebelly1 said:


> I gotta respect that. On the other hand, the fact that my DH doesn't share his internal struggles with me makes me feel like he doesn't trust me.


I don't tell my wife any of them anymore. It's just far less painful and stressful. Because then, not only do I have to deal with whatever it is, I then have to deal with her either being angry at me, blaming me, or trying to make it work her way and being mad I don't do it her way. 

I tell her if it involves her or is going to impact her in some way, otherwise, I just don't. I already have very, very stubborn hypertension, and conflict with her will easily raise it to levels where they want to put you in the ICU.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

oldgeezer said:


> *I don't tell my wife any of them anymore. It's just far less painful and stressful. Because then, not only do I have to deal with whatever it is, I then have to deal with her either being angry at me, blaming me, or trying to make it work her way and being mad I don't do it her way. *
> 
> I tell her if it involves her or is going to impact her in some way, otherwise, I just don't. I already have very, very stubborn hypertension, and conflict with her will easily raise it to levels where they want to put you in the ICU.


Ditto


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

firebelly1 said:


> This is a question for you men out there: I remember Dr. Phil once saying that women need to stop expecting their men to talk to them like girlfriends do. My husband does not listen like a girlfriend would, and it's been a constant source of disappointment for me. If I "vent" he tries to tell me how to fix it instead of sympathizing. If I tell a story about my day instead of just leaving it as "it was good" or "it was bad" his eyes glaze over at about the third sentence.
> 
> The thing is, I think of the way in which I interact with my girlfriends as intimacy. I fear that if my husband and I cannot communicate like I do with my girlfriends that we cannot achieve true intimacy. What's your perspective on this?


This was one of the things I learned in our marriage counseling, about how to just shut up and listen. I don't know if my wife tried to tell me to listen or if she didn't know how but it took another married man to tell me that.

It is important to be there and be able to listen to your spouse without trying to fix them. You might want to try and sit down with him and tell him you crave the emotional intimacy of being able to share your day with him. If you tell him how important it is to you and how it makes you feel more connected and loved (and thus more ready for sex later but don't tell him that part just act on it). I'm sure there are some good books out there on this topic but really it isn't difficult. 

If he won't listen to you telling him how to listen then it may require you asking him to go to counseling to learn this skill. If he does do it then reward him and tell him like the next day how much that meant to you that he was able to listen. 

For me I was just being selfish and only cared about my own little world. It took our counselor to reveal that to me. Now I look forward to hearing how her day was and try to help her talk through it.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

oldgeezer said:


> I don't tell my wife any of them anymore. It's just far less painful and stressful. Because then, not only do I have to deal with whatever it is, I then have to deal with her either being angry at me, blaming me, or trying to make it work her way and being mad I don't do it her way.


Or else you have to worry about them respecting you less for admitting you struggle with something. In my experience a lot of women are more like this than they are willing to admit, whether it's driven by old cultural expectations or biology or what I don't know. But as I said above, most women who say they want you to "listen like a girlfriend" are not about to return the favor if you start talking like one.


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## daysgoneby (Aug 31, 2013)

It's Not About The Nail - YouTube


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## ladylover (Dec 12, 2012)

If you don't talk to your spouse who you confess to love, then how are they going to know what you need from them?


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## LoveLonely (Dec 8, 2013)

Now all of this is very interesting. I am a male. I am very emotional, sensitive, and downright needy. My fiance said that she didn't know those qualities were available in a man. Based on MY experience, I have told her that women often WANT those qualities, but aren't willing to give them. My fiance is very willing to give them, but it is frustrating when she tries to FIX things instead of just be there for me.


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