# Violent Pornography



## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

Four years ago I found out that my husband was viewing violent pornography on our family computer. While using the computer one day our youngest daughter (21 at the time) said that porographic images popped up on the screen. She was greatly disturbed by what saw and rightly went to the talk to the Ministers at our christians meetings. She told them she checked the history on the computer and was shocked that there were endless pages of websites dedicated to rape and other violent crimes against women. When my husband was asked by the Ministers if he had visited those sites he admitted that he had, but that since he was a new computer user it was an accident. Even though I never saw evidence of his computer activities, because our daughter deleted the history pages and put a website block for those kind of sites, I believed my daughter. My husband was livid! He said that she should have told me first, that I could understand that a little, but I still think she did the right thing. He told me and the Ministers in our congregation that it would never happen again. For quite some time there was contention in our home. 

For the past year me and my husband have been arguring at least once a week. He have been cold, distant, and more cranky than usual. Also for a few years very little have been going on with us in the bedroom department. I became suspious that he had resumed, (or never stopped), visiting those type of websites. One day while he was away from the house I checked the computer to see what he was up to. I know it was wrong for me to snoop like that, but he is prone to lie, and I wanted to see for myself if he was still into watching violent pornograpy. Just like my daughter, I too was disgusted by what I saw. The history only went up to three weeks, but it had endless pages of rape, gang rape, and what disturbed me more, even incest. He of course denied it, but I was not buying it. I had proof. I asked both of my daughters if he had ever done anything inappropriate to them, their answer was no. I hope and pray that they are telling me the truth. I told him he must desire to do the things he see on those websites. He said that he do not. I do not believe him, nor will I ever trust him again. We have been married for 25 years and together for 27, most of the time it was me doing all of the work to make our marraige a success. I see now that it was all a lie. I gave him a chance four years ago, and really did not think he had returned back to pornograpy, but as I mentioned before my thoughts turned on that because things was changing in our marriage in terms of how we were getting along.

He knows he can not deny what I saw. He asked me for another chance, but that I am not willing to do. I discovered that the website block was only for one year, so it stands to reason that he had up to three years to return back to those types of websites. I sincerly believe that he would have continued for as long as he wished if I had not found out. The core of the matter is: he enjoy viewing rape, and rape is a crime. I can not love or stay with him knowing that it excites him to see women mistreated like that. The entire thing have me questioning what he really think and feel about the women in his life. Do he hate us? Do he hate me? I am writing this because I really do not understand why out of all the eroticism he could have selected to watch, he decided on what is the most demeaning and degrading to women. I give. He have been pleading with me to stay with him. I will not. I do not hate my husband. I want him to get help. Like most married people we depend on each other for support, and I sincerely worry how we will get along. I even worry about his health and welfare and have struggled with the thought of possibly giving him another try, but I always come back to the square of violent pornograpy. I noted his behavior was getting more and more aggressive to me. I honestly thinks he wants to harm me. That is why I decided to move out of state with my oldest daughter and her family. He told me he would never hurt me, that too was untrue because there have been a few instances where he did hurt me. He would grab my upper inner thigh and twist and turn it so hard that it would leave a bruise. I always had to tell him to be gentle when we were intimate with each other. And once he wrapped a phone cord around my neck. Each time I forgave him and tried to make our marriage work because I wanted to please God, not him, and wanted his blessing in our marraige. Today I believe that God, have opened my eyes to see the man that my husband really is, and he wants me to get out before it is too late.

I have never used a service like this. I am reaching out for some advice, because when I went to the Ministers in my church they told me God, did not want me to leave. They told me that after talking to my husband about the situation they believed him when he said it only happened one more time. I no longer trust their advice, because they essentially told me that I was not being truthful to them. I know what I saw. I now only need advice on how to make a safe exit plan to leave him. Please help if you can.

Doneworking.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Let's look at this from another perspective. 

There are a surprising number of women who have rape fantasies. The idea of being taken violently is a huge attraction for them, even if they are personally disgusted or disturbed by the images they self-conjure or the idea of rape for real.

It is entirely possible that your husband wants this to be part of his fantasy life but would never in actuality rape a woman. No doubt he too is ashamed and more than a little embarassed to be found out. I don't think it would be unreasonable to see a marital sex counselor to see if maybe there isn't a way to save your relationship.

I can't decide for you what is or is not a deal breaker in your marriage, but you might want to think this through completely before severing a multi-decade marriage over your husband's fantasy life - assuming that it's only his fantasy life.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm in favor of you leaving. Grabbing your thigh and bruising it, wrapping a cord around your neck, yes those are things that warrant you to leave. You said you are going to live with your oldest daughter, where is your other daughter? 

The ministers said God wanted you to stay? Ask them if God feels its ok for him to grab and choke you? For him to watch rape porn? Then tell them God spoke to you as well and he told you not to stay in an abusive situation.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Cletus said:


> There are a surprising number of women who have rape fantasies. The idea of being taken violently is a huge attraction for them, even if they are personally disgusted or disturbed by the images they self-conjure or the idea of rape for real.


The OP is NOT one of these women though. Period. Also he choked her and bruised her, so its not just about the porn.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

This is not about rape!

"*I told him he must desire to do the things he see on those websites.* He said that he do not. I do not believe him, nor will I ever trust him again."

you're being wrong...and you don't even understand it...thats the problem. maybe if you were less prudish some good could come of this.. and I am not trying to offend you.

I look @ porn, and my wife does not care. If I enjoy seeing a woman being impailed by a 14inch dong it does not mean I would ever get any joy/nor ever endorse having my wife do it.

My wife was on the computer my computer once and I caught her looking @ porn.....the EXACT type of porn you are talking about rape porn....and this was my wife looking at it. It did not offend me. I did not dig to see what I might find...because what good could come of it. My response was to be a bit more ahem... "forceful" in the bedroom for a while after that. If that turns her crank so be it. I know she loves me, and she's not gonna go get gang raped lol

some people are dominant, some are submissive...all shapes and sizes.

@ the very least you should understand this does not mean your husband would EVER do anything like this.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

doneworking said:


> I am reaching out for some advice, because when I went to the Ministers in my church they told me God, did not want me to leave. They told me that after talking to my husband about the situation they believed him when he said it only happened one more time. I no longer trust their advice, because they essentially told me that I was not being truthful to them. I know what I saw. I now only need advice on how to make a safe exit plan to leave him. Please help if you can.


You are VERY WISE to not listen to these 'ministers'. They know NOTHING. Your husband is lying to them and they're too stuck in their ways to see it.

I suggest is that you start by seeing a lawyer. One with no affiliation to your church.

Edited because I missed the part about him harming you the first time around. You need to leave - you could go to a womens shelter if you feel in immediate danger.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

Jamison said:


> The OP is NOT one of these women though. Period. Also he choked her and bruised her, so its not just about the porn.


no room for serious violence in the bedroom, but given her paradigm.....do we really know if it was violence?

cause if leaving a bruise from sex is violence...well lock me up.

and who hasn't done the occassional hand around the troat during rough sex.....


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

Thank you for your concern. My youngest daugther moved back home Dec, last year. She plans to move with me.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Jamison said:


> The OP is NOT one of these women though. Period. Also he choked her and bruised her, so its not just about the porn.


The point was violent sexual fantasies are not uncommon, even among women. They don't have to be shared or indulged, nor do they have to spell the end of a sexual relationship.

The phone cord incident is in my opinion the more troubling of the two problems, and needs to be dealt with, but we have no way of knowing if that is related to the primary point of the OPs original post.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

ATC529R said:


> no room for serious violence in the bedroom, but given her paradigm.....do we really know if it was violence?
> 
> cause if leaving a bruise from sex is violence...well lock me up.
> 
> and who hasn't done the occassional hand around the troat during rough sex.....


I don't know if the bruise was from sex or not? She just stated he grabbed her thigh and twisted and turned it, after he told her he would never harm her. Bottom line is, she doesn't like to be treated that way. If others do, good for them.


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

Jamison said:


> The OP is NOT one of these women though. Period. Also he choked her and bruised her, so its not just about the porn.


There are several problems in my marriage. This is the deal breaker. I also was afraid to leave him. I am no longer afraid.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Cletus said:


> The point was violent sexual fantasies are not uncommon, even among women. They don't have to be shared or indulged, nor do they have to spell the end of a sexual relationship.


I understand they are not uncommon, but some people do not care for that. Its her right to feel that way, just as it is others right to love the rape fantasy.


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

ATC529R said:


> no room for serious violence in the bedroom, but given her paradigm.....do we really know if it was violence?
> 
> cause if leaving a bruise from sex is violence...well lock me up.
> 
> and who hasn't done the occassional hand around the troat during rough sex.....


 Each and every time he was violent to me we were not having sex. It was violence, and nothing can make me think otherwise.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Jamison said:


> I understand they are not uncommon, but some people do not care for that. Its her right to feel that way, just as it is others right to love the rape fantasy.


OPs husband never asked her to participate in any rape fantasy, apparently. If you're going to vet your prospective mates on their fantasy life, assuming they're honest enough to indulge you, you might find yourself very lonely one day.

And, as I clearly said in the first reply, she gets to decide if this is a deal breaker. But if she's actually not aware that this isn't as abnormal as she believes it to be, how is she supposed to make an informed choice on leaving (the choking aside, that is)?

Knowledge is power.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I think you are doing the right thing. I do think you should suggest to your husband that he seek out some help though for his anger, since he had hurt you before. 

As far as your Ministers go, I'm sure they are looking at it from a Godly view and that God wants people to stay and work on their marriages, and I get that to a point, But I also am a firm believer that God doesn't want people to stay in unhealthy/abusive relationships either. If your Ministers can't see you side on that too, then don't worry about them, you have to do what you feel is best for you.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

It sounds like he may indeed have some violent tendencies which don't necessarily go hand in hand with his preferred genres of porn. (I plan on sampling the new _Hannibal_ series on NBC...doesn't mean I have any serial killing or cannibalistic tendencies.) That's a big red flag, and could spell danger. Or, not knowing the context, could be as simple as him trying to - clumsily - roughen up your sex life a bit. Best case scenario, it's something that you both need to get on the same page about. Worst case scenario, it's dangerous to you.

At the same time, your daughter has boundary issues...going through someone else's browser history and taking it upon herself to block sites on someone else's computer wouldn't be OK in my book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

doneworking said:


> Each and every time he was violent to me we were not having sex. It was violence, and nothing can make me think otherwise.


THAT is the more worrisome issue in your marriage. It's good to hear that you are taking your safety into your own hands.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

You do realize these are movies right? These women are not really being raped. Do you watch violent TV shows?
Now the phone cord thing is a different matter. I would not hang around for that.
Remember wherever you go people will have fantasies you may not like or understand.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Cletus said:


> OPs husband never asked her to participate in any rape fantasy, apparently. If you're going to vet your prospective mates on their fantasy life, assuming they're honest enough to indulge you, you might find yourself very lonely one day.
> 
> And, as I clearly said in the first reply, she gets to decide if this is a deal breaker. But if she's actually not aware that this isn't as abnormal as she believes it to be, how is she supposed to make an informed choice on leaving (the choking aside, that is)?
> 
> Knowledge is power.


Excellent, carry on! 

To the OP, I stand by what I said, and I think you're doing the right thing, good luck to you!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry you are going through this, please take care of yourself. 

Has he changed recently? has there been any major change in your life as a couple or on his life? (unemployment, death in family, problems with family) 
I ask this becuase the porn may be an outlet for him to deal with his problems. However, it does not justify him hurting you. I agree with the others about seeking a therapist for you and him. Ministers are not usally trained to work on these types of problems. It must also be humiliating for your spouse to bring in the minister and can cause him to close up or act out even more.

Never be afraid to leave, instead focus on your safety and sanity. I know its hard but you sound like a strong woman who has faith that God will guide you.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

doneworking said:


> Four years ago I found out that my husband was viewing violent pornography ............there were endless pages of websites dedicated to rape and other violent crimes against women. ......... The history only went up to three weeks, but it had endless pages of rape, gang rape, and what disturbed me more, even incest. ............ I noted his behavior was getting more and more aggressive to me. .......... He would grab my upper inner thigh and twist and turn it so hard that it would leave a bruise........ And once he wrapped a phone cord around my neck. ..... Today I believe that God, have opened my eyes to see the man that my husband really is, and he wants me to get out before it is too late.
> 
> 
> Doneworking.


Yes, you need to get away from this man ASAP. And never let your daughters be around him alone. I would never trust him again! He's very dangerous to you and possibly your daughters. If you feel God is talking to you and telling you to protect yourself .....before it's too late......*LISTEN!!*


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Sorry you are going through this, please take care of yourself.
> 
> Has he changed recently? has there been any major change in your life as a couple or on his life? (unemployment, death in family, problems with family)
> I ask this becuase the porn may be an outlet for him to deal with his problems. However, it does not justify him hurting you. I agree with the others about seeking a therapist for you and him. Ministers are not usally trained to work on these types of problems. It must also be humiliating for your spouse to bring in the minister and can cause him to close up or act out even more.
> ...


 Thank you for that. He retired a year and a half ago. That does not give him a pass. There have always been problems in our marriage. I know no marriage is perfect, that is why I work so hard. There comes a time when the straw breaks the camel's back. When you had enough, you've had enough. It is about trust. Someone made a comment about my daughter taking action to try to stop him from what he was doing. Out of love for her father, she responded the best way she knew how. 

I agree with the comment that people have the right to chose what they want in their sex lives, but I will never chose violence. And he have never expressed to me that he desired to try those kinds of things with me, because I believe he already knows I would never go for that. It is not prudish on my part to not be into that kind of thing. I did not even know until four years ago that he was into to that. For many years I thought our sex life was great until it slowed down to the point of nonexistence. Apparently it was not everything he needed. He is being nice to me now because he do not want me to leave. I have expressed to him in the past why I wanted out for reasons other than the violent pornograpy. I know in this day in time it is not popular for one to profess that they have faith in God, and that he governs thier lives in the decisions that they make. But the reality is some people still are spiritual beings that want what is wholesome. I simply have had enough.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

doneworking said:


> While using the computer one day our youngest daughter (21 at the time) said that porographic images popped up on the screen. She was greatly disturbed by what saw and rightly went to the talk to the Ministers at our christians meetings.


She wasn't right. She was wrong. Your marriage is between you, your husband, and your God. Your daughter should mind her own business. She could have told you. Instead, she spread it around your church.

Would you be offended if your husband took naked pictures of you and then spread them around your church? What if he just told your fellow parishioners your most embarrassing secret? Would that be OK? Would it be OK if your daughter did it?



doneworking said:


> I told him he must desire to do the things he see on those websites. He said that he do not. I do not believe him, nor will I ever trust him again.


You are wrong again. There is a difference between fantasy and real life. I watch violent movies and TV shows. That doesn't mean I'm a violent person. Quite the contrary.

I'm not saying you're wrong to be concerned about his fantasies. But to assume that he must be a rapist, or aspiring rapist, because he's viewed rape porn is quite a stretch.



doneworking said:


> I see now that it was all a lie. I gave him a chance four years ago, and really did not think he had returned back to pornograpy, but as I mentioned before my thoughts turned on that because things was changing in our marriage in terms of how we were getting along.


You seem to be a committed Christian. Does your view of Christian marriage include an escape clause if your husband views pornography, or if you don't get along as well as you once did? If so, I think you're misinterpreting the Bible.

Just curious, but do you read romance novels, or watch shows like Desperate Housewives, or Grey's Anatomy, or watch movies like Eat, Pray, Love, or Fireproof? You know, chick porn?



doneworking said:


> The entire thing have me questioning what he really think and feel about the women in his life. Do he hate us? Do he hate me?


Of course not. If he had watched a movie about the Holocaust, would you conclude that he hated Jews? If he watched a movie about Evel Knievel, would you conclude that he wants to jump over the Grand Canyon?



doneworking said:


> I am reaching out for some advice, because when I went to the Ministers in my church they told me God, did not want me to leave. They told me that after talking to my husband about the situation they believed him when he said it only happened one more time. I no longer trust their advice, because they essentially told me that I was not being truthful to them.


So, when your daughter was tattling on your husband to your Ministers and they thought he was in the wrong, they had excellent judgment. But now that they don't think you should blow up your family, you can't trust them?

Look. You're going to find all the support you'll ever need to divorce your husband. Millions of women think that viewing porn is justification for blowing up your family. You'll probably even get some nice cash and prizes in the divorce. I just think you might want to reconsider whether you will be better off living with your daughter and her husband than living with yours.

It sounds like the most serious thing he did was putting a phone cord around your neck. That is serious. But you may be able to deal with that as a separate issue from any pornography or issues over getting along.

Good luck.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Wait till the daughter finds porn on her husbands computer. Dad and SIL will be in the doghouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm honestly in shock with this post....
I don't know if this is a man thing,
Or an ass hole thing
And maybe it's both

But to demean a woman that has had a cord wrapped around her throat by her husband,
To make light of her entire situation with a: 
"Wrapping a cord around your throat was naugthy of him, but c'mon don't be a prude" type of comment

Is absolutely disgusting of you



PHTlump said:


> She wasn't right. She was wrong. Your marriage is between you, your husband, and your God. Your daughter should mind her own business. She could have told you. Instead, she spread it around your church.
> 
> Would you be offended if your husband took naked pictures of you and then spread them around your church? What if he just told your fellow parishioners your most embarrassing secret? Would that be OK? Would it be OK if your daughter did it?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Wow guys I think your being a bit harsh on the OP.
This isn't JUST porn! It's violent, degrading stuff and its obviously upset the OP. she has every right to be upset about it. There are many of us who would be. Her H has been violent and aggressive in the past so she is justified in her concerns.

OP your daughter should not have done what she did but in a way she did you a favour. If this is a deal breaker for you then don't let your church or anyone else tell you that you are wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

Well,from my point of view,when you even bring up this problem
he gets angry.

He also has in times is on the verge of loosing control of and 
causing real harm to you.

If he is always viewing this its an addiction.He had daughters
like I do and him viewing violent scenes of women is messed
up.

Sorry, if he has grand daughters,I would be worried about him
being alone with them.

He needs help and dosen't want to admit he has a problem.

Think back how your marriage was from the beginning.Are there signs that stand out?

I'm so sorry for you.It is hard to handle the true when the facts
don't lie and your husbands has so many red flags of enjoying
the violence and abuse hes viewing.


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> She wasn't right. She was wrong. Your marriage is between you, your husband, and your God. Your daughter should mind her own business. She could have told you. Instead, she spread it around your church.
> 
> Would you be offended if your husband took naked pictures of you and then spread them around your church? What if he just told your fellow parishioners your most embarrassing secret? Would that be OK? Would it be OK if your daughter did it?
> 
> ...


 Wow,that was harsh! And you are entitled to your opinion. There is no way for you to completely understand the entire situation. It is not your life, nor is it your marriage. I did say that I agreed that my daughter should have come to me first. You missed read, I never said that the ministers ever thought he was wrong. Perhaps you should re-read my post. I am insulted that you think I am looking for an escape clause to get out of my marriage. You sound very much like the ministers in my church. My husband is not the victim here. He have not been a good husband period. And no, I do not watch the shows that you mentioned, nor do I watch violent televison shows or movies. If we are what we eat, than we are what we allow to feed on minds and hearts on too, whether we react to it or not. How dare you accuse me for wanting to blow up my marriage. You no doubt missed the part when I said that I even considered giving him another chance, but decided not to because I am disturbed by what I saw. Did you see that I wrote he viewed incest. You do understand what the Bible says about that? And have you considered that now that I know that he likes to be entertained by viewing violent pornograpy I now understand why he treats me the way he do. You had no right to accuse me for looking for an excuse to get out of my marriage. I have simply had enough.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Sheesh I hate how the church rugsweeps and enables!

Here is a CHRISTIAN site for you. The comments are good too

Abuse and Pornography: A Digest of Scott Johnson’s “Pornography and Abuse” | A Cry For Justice


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Grayson said:


> At the same time, your daughter has boundary issues...going through someone else's browser history and taking it upon herself to block sites on someone else's computer wouldn't be OK in my book.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


IMO, the DADDY has boundary issues bringing that into the home where children are supposed to be SAFE!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

"You seem to be a committed Christian. Does your view of Christian marriage include an escape clause if your husband views pornography, or if you don't get along as well as you once did? If so, I think you're misinterpreting the Bible"

No where in the bible does it say she has to deal with abuse and disrespect. She has the right to be happy and not be in danger and be mistreated. Please be mindful of how hard this has been for her.

Being a Christian does not mean being a doormat.

Doneworking, I admire you for seeing things for what they are.


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

CallaLily said:


> I think you are doing the right thing. I do think you should suggest to your husband that he seek out some help though for his anger, since he had hurt you before.
> 
> As far as your Ministers go, I'm sure they are looking at it from a Godly view and that God wants people to stay and work on their marriages, and I get that to a point, But I also am a firm believer that God doesn't want people to stay in unhealthy/abusive relationships either. If your Ministers can't see you side on that too, then don't worry about them, you have to do what you feel is best for you.


Right. He wants us to be at peace. I still love my husband and want to see him get the help that he needs. I read an article that said that it is not uncommon for abused women to feel as I do. I wish him well, just not with me.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Blonde said:


> IMO, the DADDY has boundary issues bringing that into the home where children are supposed to be SAFE!


Well, the daughter was 21 when she first found that four years ago. I don't think that is quite the level of a child.

That being said, I think the husbands actions (cord, bruising) are a huge red-flag and I have no issue with her divorcing over it. While the porn, by itself, could merely be fantasy, he is starting to blur that line. I would recommend that she insist that he get counseling before she even considers reconciliation.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

You've done a good job raising your daughter! She obeyed Eph 5:11. 

But your ministers? Ezekiel 34 NKJV - Irresponsible Shepherds


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blonde said:


> IMO, the DADDY has boundary issues bringing that into the home where children are supposed to be SAFE!


Daddy has boundary issues with his browsing history.

Bringing rape porn into the house doesn't make children any less safe. They just shouldn't be allowed to view it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

aribabe said:


> I'm honestly in shock with this post....
> I don't know if this is a man thing,
> Or an ass hole thing
> And maybe it's both
> ...


I don't know if this post is a woman thing, or a reading comprehension thing. And maybe it's both. But most of the OP's original post was focused on pornography. That's why most of my response dealt with pornography. And I did write that the phone cord incident was serious and deserved to be dealt with.

To ignore that is disgusting of you.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Blonde said:


> IMO, the DADDY has boundary issues bringing that into the home where children are supposed to be SAFE!


The "child" was 21.

And, how, exactly, do files on a computer, or DVD's, or signals sent to a television, by their very nature, threaten the safety of children (or, as in this case, grown women snooping in their parents' computers)? Does my previously stated interest in watching _Hannibal_ threaten my son's safety, seeing as it's about a cannibal serial killer?

An argument can be made for the OP's husband having boundary issues for viewing it IF they've mutually agreed that he wont. That doesn't make their daughter's prying into his browser history and unilateral decision to establish filters on his computer herself any more acceptable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

"Just curious, but do you read romance novels, or watch shows like Desperate Housewives, or Grey's Anatomy, or watch movies like Eat, Pray, Love, or Fireproof? You know, chick porn?"

OMG...thats just awesome. I fricken hate those shows! desperapte housewives, sex in the city....etc.....

they are everything that wrong with women these days.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

A lot of good points here. The net-net is the phone cord was way over the line. her spewing to other people/church was WAY out of line. 

he went to far, and she did the same.

sound like a typical marriage.


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

Blonde said:


> Sheesh I hate how the church rugsweeps and enables!
> 
> Here is a CHRISTIAN site for you. The comments are good too
> 
> Abuse and Pornography: A Digest of Scott Johnson’s “Pornography and Abuse” | A Cry For Justice


 I really appreciate the link. The information and comments are very helpful. Thanks again.


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

Her post was about the violence of the porn her husband watched,
And the way that the violence of it harmed her.
And the fact that he wrapped a cord around her neck,
And twisted and bruised her thigh
And that it likely has something to do with her husbands violent porn watching.

To sum that up as, she doesn't like porn and just wants an "out" of her marriage 
Is pitiful for on your part

And it would be foolish on her part to listen to that

PHTlump, it's a good idea to understand BEFORE you speak 



PHTlump said:


> I don't know if this post is a woman thing, or a reading comprehension thing. And maybe it's both. But most of the OP's original post was focused on pornography. That's why most of my response dealt with pornography. And I did write that the phone cord incident was serious and deserved to be dealt with.
> 
> To ignore that is disgusting of you.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

doneworking said:


> Thank you for your concern. My youngest daugther moved back home Dec, last year. She plans to move with me.


It's often not the crime but the coverup that's the problem. He repeatedly lied to you. You are making the right decision for yourself.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

doneworking said:


> I now only need advice on how to make a safe exit plan to leave him. Please help if you can.


Sounds like a "Considering Divorce or Separation" topic. If the violent porn is a deal breaker, it's a deal breaker. End of discussion.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

doneworking said:


> Wow,that was harsh!


I'm not intending to be harsh. I'm just offering a contrarian opinion. As I said, there will be no shortage of people insisting that you can't possibly remain married to a man who viewed pornography, or who had rough sex with you, or who bruised you and put a phone cord around your neck. I'm simply offering another point of view to consider before you take irrevocable action.


doneworking said:


> There is no way for you to completely understand the entire situation. It is not your life, nor is it your marriage.


That obviously goes without saying. Your cheerleaders don't understand your entire situation, either.


doneworking said:


> I did say that I agreed that my daughter should have come to me first.


In your original post, you wrote that she "rightly" went to a church meeting with the information of your husband's pornography viewing. You did write that you could understand your husband's desire that she came to you first, "a little." But, then you repeated that she did the right thing. I disagree.


doneworking said:


> You missed read, I never said that the ministers ever thought he was wrong. Perhaps you should re-read my post.


I did. You're correct. I misinterpreted that. The Ministers questioned him, but you didn't say what their judgment was at the time. I assumed that they wouldn't approve of his pornography viewing, yet they still recommended you stay in the marriage. Mea culpa.


doneworking said:


> I am insulted that you think I am looking for an escape clause to get out of my marriage.


Why? You have stated that you are leaving your husband. If you had posted that you were disturbed by his actions, but you were committed to remaining married to him, then I would not think you were looking to leave your marriage.


doneworking said:


> You sound very much like the ministers in my church. My husband is not the victim here. He have not been a good husband period.


I didn't say he was a victim, or a good husband. I simply asked if your understanding of Christian marriage allows for dissolution if one spouse views pornography, or isn't a very good spouse.


doneworking said:


> And no, I do not watch the shows that you mentioned, nor do I watch violent televison shows or movies.


OK. Perhaps you can still understand the analogy of watching violent television without being a violent person.


doneworking said:


> How dare you accuse me for wanting to blow up my marriage. You no doubt missed the part when I said that I even considered giving him another chance, but decided not to because I am disturbed by what I saw.


You're writing that you considered staying with your husband, then decided against it. And now you're upset that I have acknowledged your decision to leave your husband? OK.


doneworking said:


> Did you see that I wrote he viewed incest. You do understand what the Bible says about that?


I am unaware of what the Bible says about being entertained by fiction about sinful behavior. Please enlighten me.


doneworking said:


> You had no right to accuse me for looking for an excuse to get out of my marriage. I have simply had enough.


If you've had enough, then you've had enough. Luckily for you, you live in the age of Marriage 2.0, where you don't even need a reason to divorce. You can simply file with "irreconcilable differences" and be done with it. There are also a large, and ever-increasing, number of churches who have abandoned the idea of lifelong marriage and have ceded authority over marriage to the secular authorities, who recognize it as little more than a convenience for tax purposes.

So you will not be shunned or ostracized for leaving your husband because he likes pornography. You would not even be shunned if you had decided to leave your husband because you were having an affair with a married man.

Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

doneworking said:


> Thank you for that. He retired a year and a half ago. That does not give him a pass. There have always been problems in our marriage. I know no marriage is perfect, that is why I work so hard. There comes a time when the straw breaks the camel's back. When you had enough, you've had enough. It is about trust. Someone made a comment about my daughter taking action to try to stop him from what he was doing. Out of love for her father, she responded the best way she knew how.
> 
> I agree with the comment that people have the right to chose what they want in their sex lives, but I will never chose violence. And he have never expressed to me that he desired to try those kinds of things with me, because I believe he already knows I would never go for that. It is not prudish on my part to not be into that kind of thing. I did not even know until four years ago that he was into to that. For many years I thought our sex life was great until it slowed down to the point of nonexistence. Apparently it was not everything he needed. He is being nice to me now because he do not want me to leave. I have expressed to him in the past why I wanted out for reasons other than the violent pornograpy. I know in this day in time it is not popular for one to profess that they have faith in God, and that he governs thier lives in the decisions that they make. But the reality is some people still are spiritual beings that want what is wholesome. I simply have had enough.


I believe very strongly that what a person allows into their mind shapes them. To watch something violent occasionally is one thing. To make a diet of it is another thing. I would not stay with a man who fantasy life was predominately around hurting anyone. 

Add to that the things your husband has done to you: the bruising, cord around your neck, etc. You have justification for leaving him.

Don’t let anyone, not those in your church or those here who also like violence, try to shame you into staying. For anyone call it prudish to be highly disturbed by person constantly viewing violent sex porn is itself very disturbing.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

mablenc said:


> No where in the bible does it say she has to deal with abuse and disrespect. She has the right to be happy and not be in danger and be mistreated. Please be mindful of how hard this has been for her.


The New Testament gives adultery as the sole justification for divorce. There are other remedies available for marriages in trouble, such as hers. But the New Testament does not lend support for divorce in those cases.

However, as I've said, many churches don't pay much heed to the New Testament on divorce. So, anyone who divorces, for any reason, will have no problem finding a church to readily welcome him.

And I do recognize how hard it is. She has my sympathy. I'm simply trying to give another viewpoint. I would hate it, for her, if she moves to another state to live with her daughter's family only to come to regret her decision.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

If your married to a person shouldn't you be able to reveal some of your dark side without being ostracized?

i'm not into it.....but if my wife threw a tie or cord around my neck because she was kinky it would not give me reason to fear her.

please elaborate on the phone cord incident as that is the crux of the matter on if he is violent. and be honest.....try to tell it from his side.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

There appears to be a bit of a disconnect here, with two methods of viewing the OP's story.

On the one side, there's the school of thought that all of the elements - his viewing porn (period), the genre of the porn, his aggression towards the OP - are all directly related in a cycle of cause and effect.

On the other side, there's the perspective that these are independent issues, coming to a head simultaneously.

Obviously, from my previous posts, I'm in the latter group. I think it's easy, given the weight of the situation, to see a causality between it all and view it as a single problem...TOO easy, in fact. Human behavior is complex. While there may be a connection between his porn choices and his aggressive nature, I would be inclined to think that the connection flows the other way: that his aggression leads him to find greater satisfaction in "violent" porn. And, let's assume for the moment that the term "violent" is being applied accurately and that the content is truly violent, as opposed to being obviously fictionalized accounts of rape, incest, etc. After all, simply portraying these acts in a fictional story and enjoying said story is not, in and of itself, problematic. Most people have a good sense of separating truth from fiction, and that applies to porn just as well as it does to more mainstream entertainment.

Laying the blame for his clearly abusive behavior at the feet of his choice of entertainment is just as bad as murderers who go to trial claiming they were influenced by songs. As the late Sam Kinison said about Charles Manson, Manson blamed the Beatles' music, but would've gotten the same "message" from the Monkees. Along those lines, I saw a link yesterday (still need to read the story) to an article in which an FBI profiler debunks the popular notion that violent video games lead to violent behavior among the players. Same principle here.

So, I think we can all agree:
-OP doesn't like that he watched porn.
-Even more, she was bothered by the genre of porn.
-Her husband has demonstrated aggressive tendencies towards her.
-She no longer feels safe or comfortable in the relationship.

That last point is all that really matters. We can go back and forth about how "wrong" the porn was or was not, but at the end of the day, that's irrelevant to that last point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Don’t let anyone, not those in your church or those here who also like violence, try to shame you into staying. For anyone call it prudish to be highly disturbed by person constantly viewing violent sex porn is itself very disturbing.


Let's be clear here that some of us are trying to discuss the matter from alternative perspectives that might not have been considered by the OP.

Since I'm not sure who you have in mind as "those here who also like violence", I only hope that you're not lumping everyone who doesn't jump immediately on the "get out now" bandwagon as lovers of violence or shame.

Some of us just don't think the world is ever as simple as the picture portrayed in a handful of paragraphs on a public forum.


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

PTHlump, I do not have information from the Bible concering the right to be entertained by fiction of sinful behavior. I go by what is written in the scriptures and what is written in my heart for what I accept to be right. 
6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

aribabe said:


> Her post was about the violence of the porn her husband watched,
> And the way that the violence of it harmed her.
> And the fact that he wrapped a cord around her neck,
> And twisted and bruised her thigh
> ...


You should practice what you preach. I actually read the post. Her first paragraph said that her husband viewed porn, he said it wouldn't happen again, and they were then happy for three years afterward.

Her second paragraph said that things have gotten worse over the last year. He has been cold, distant, and cranky. And that their sex life has dwindled. That's when she snooped and found more evidence of pornography viewing. Her adult daughters both claim that he never harmed them.

Her third paragraph contains she sentence, "The core of the matter is: he enjoy viewing rape, and rape is a crime." It seems reasonable to me to interpret her claim that the "core" issue is his viewing rape pornography as actually what her "core" issue is. Since you don't, I'll just say that I disagree.

The OP did not post that her husband was a violent monster who had been physically abusing her and her children for decades while, incidentally, viewing violent pornography. She posted that they had a 25-year marriage that even included three happy years post-discovery of the pornography. But, now that she's found evidence that he's been viewing pornography years apart, she is ready to leave. And, late in her post, she wrote that he liked rough sex and one time put something around her neck.

For you to insist that she rewrite the history of her marriage into the first scenario is pitiful.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

doneworking said:


> PTHlump, I do not have information from the Bible concering the right to be entertained by fiction of sinful behavior. I go by what is written in the scriptures and what is written in my heart for what I accept to be right.


I am familiar with the prohibitions against incest that you listed. What I'm curious about is how you have expanded those prohibitions. Obviously, if the porn actresses were related to your husband, then he would be violating the prohibitions against incest that you listed by watching the porn.

But your husband was watching people unrelated to him (I assume) _pretending_ to engage in incest. I don't know how that falls into the same prohibitions.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

doneworking said:


> PTHlump, I do not have information from the Bible concering the right to be entertained by fiction of sinful behavior....


You've quoted Levitical marriage law. "Nakedness" here is a metaphor for actual carnal knowledge. 

We could go into a long excursus about the various ways Christianity differs from Judaism, but that's not going to be terribly helpful to you.

If I've understood you correctly, you're simply looking for advice on how to get out of the relationship (?)


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

ATC529R said:


> If your married to a person shouldn't you be able to reveal some of your dark side without being ostracized?
> 
> i'm not into it.....but if my wife threw a tie or cord around my neck because she was kinky it would not give me reason to fear her.
> 
> please elaborate on the phone cord incident as that is the crux of the matter on if he is violent. and be honest.....try to tell it from his side.


He overheard me talking on the phone to my sister about a fight we had. I understand why some have commented about not respecting the privacy that should exist in marraiges, but please note, that it is often when the abuse keep quite about what is going on, they do not get the help they need. Silent is not only golden, but also in cases like this could be deadly.

Before I knew it he took the cord and wrapped it around my neck. I will never forget the look on his face when he did that to me. I was frightened and hurt that he would do that to me. I went to the hospital emergency room to make sure that I was okay. They sent in someone from a women protection agency who offered suggestions to me to get out. This was before I discovered his extracirricular activities besides the violent porn. I stayed with him for reasons besides my faith. I wanted to keep my family together, and quite frankly I was really afraid of him. I have shared something with this forum that is very persoanl. And yes, I have invited the comments for advice. That I really do appreciate, but please remember the advice I asked for was on how to exit from safely. At this point in time that is my greatest concern.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Blonde said:


> Sheesh I hate how the church rugsweeps and enables!


:iagree:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

doneworking said:


> He overheard me talking on the phone to my sister about a fight we had. I understand why some have commented about not respecting the privacy that should exist in marraiges, but please note, that it is often when the abuse keep quite about what is going on, they do not get the help they need. Silent is not only golden, but also in cases like this could be deadly.
> 
> Before I knew it he took the cord and wrapped it around my neck. I will never forget the look on his face when he did that to me. I was frightened and hurt that he would do that to me. I went to the hospital emergency room to make sure that I was okay. They sent in someone from a women protection agency who offered suggestions to me to get out. This was before I discovered his extracirricular activities besides the violent porn. I stayed with him for reasons besides my faith. I wanted to keep my family together, and quite frankly I was really afraid of him. I have shared something with this forum that is very persoanl. And yes, I have invited the comments for advice. That I really do appreciate, but please remember the advice I asked for was on how to exit from safely. At this point in time that is my greatest concern.


What were his extracurricular activities besides the violent porn?


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

doneworking said:


> That I really do appreciate, but please remember the advice I asked for was on how to exit from safely. At this point in time that is my greatest concern.


Do you have a source of income apart from him?


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

ATC529R said:


> and who hasn't done the occassional hand around the troat during rough sex.....


Well, I'm one.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is an exit plan from the Dr. Phil site:

Dr. Phil.com - Advice - An Exit Action Plan: Guidelines for Leaving an Abusive Relationship

You can search the web for things like "spousal abuse exit plan" and get links to many plans. They are all similar. Some might have additional info.

Some of the things that I did...

Set up a safe-place, a place to keep important info. I rented a 5x5 storage room. Some people store things with family or friends. Make copies of all personal and financial papers. This includes things like birth certificates, marriage certificates, bank statments, titles to house, copy of mortgate, bills, etc.

Also move all of your personal valuables to your safe place.

Open bank accounts in your name only and start putting money in them. User either someone else's address for this or open a PO Box and use that address.

On the day you leave, stop by the bank and move 50% of anything in joint accounts to your personal acccount.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ATC529R said:


> no room for serious violence in the bedroom, but given her paradigm.....do we really know if it was violence?
> 
> cause if leaving a bruise from sex is violence...well lock me up.
> 
> and who hasn't done the occassional hand around the troat during rough sex.....


There are some people who are terrified of something like their partner putting a hand around their throat. Just because you enjoy doing it does not mean that everyone has to like it or accept it.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

doneworking said:


> He overheard me talking on the phone to my sister about a fight we had. I understand why some have commented about not respecting the privacy that should exist in marraiges, but please note, that it is often when the abuse keep quite about what is going on, they do not get the help they need. Silent is not only golden, but also in cases like this could be deadly.
> 
> Before I knew it he took the cord and wrapped it around my neck. I will never forget the look on his face when he did that to me. I was frightened and hurt that he would do that to me. I went to the hospital emergency room to make sure that I was okay. They sent in someone from a women protection agency who offered suggestions to me to get out. This was before I discovered his extracirricular activities besides the violent porn. I stayed with him for reasons besides my faith. I wanted to keep my family together, and quite frankly I was really afraid of him. I have shared something with this forum that is very persoanl. And yes, I have invited the comments for advice. That I really do appreciate, but please remember the advice I asked for was on how to exit from safely. At this point in time that is my greatest concern.


I am at a loss over how you can okay physical violence yet consider porn a deal breaker, but nevertheless am glad you are leaving.

My suggestion is to move this from the Sex in Marriage section to the Divorce and Separation section, as the advice you are seeking will be better served there.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Well it seems like its not the porn as much as his violent tendencies. The violent porn is just a symptom of his anger and hate. If you are afraid of him for GOOD cause then the rape porn is just another indication that he is not making the effort to fix whatever problems he has in his mind.

I do believe that he could change but it is not likely possible unless he is ready to admit his problem and seek help. How about you get physical distance and see if he can get better through a year of therapy on his own...?? 

Unless he continually beat you up... I mean out of 27 years its not 100% fair to judge him for his WORST day. But if you are genuinely not safe with him then you must go. Only you can really assess your safety and whether you are using it at as the justification for leaving due to a breakdown in the marriage for many other reasons.

If you leave, a safe way might be to call it a separation so he can fix his problems... that way he trusts that it is only a matter of time and effort and will not seek you out to harm you or push you away. IF after that year he has made true changes you will be safe and can make the decision to either D or Reconcile. If he has not made changes then you divorcing him after a year has past might be less dangerous as the shock of you being gone is no longer there...

Just an opinion. Im no expert. I just think that a man without hope is a desperate man and a desperate man is a dangerous one potentially.


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## vspinkgrl (Dec 4, 2012)

eesh. I'd be scared to death of this guy. I think your doing the right thing. The whole telephone cord thing is the deal breaker. Just cause you love someone and want it to work doesn't mean he can't be a friggin serial killer/rapist. A lot of those infamous psychos had loving wives at home and I'm sure they had signs. Everyone has "fantasies" but its on a case by case basis and you have every right to feel like something is too much. And I agree the incest thing is downright disgusting. The nature of the porn being rape AND incest would turn my stomach. 
I guess its what your willing to overlook which you have made it clear you won't be doing. I wish you all the luck and I hope God guides you in future relationships as well.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

OP - it sounds like you've been unhappy for some time... certainly for a lot of the past 4 years... since the first incident. 

You say it's there's not much sex in your marriage and hasn't been for a 'few' years?? Is this since the first incident? Whose choice has that been?

You also say that for the past year the two of you fight a lot and that you find him cold and distant.

He continues to cross boundaries. He lies to you. He has hurt you and scares you. You have alluded to other times he has been violent.. is that correct? 

Certainly doesn't sounds like this is a quick decision or one your making lightly... I feel you've been given a hard time here. I'm astounded at some of the posts from various men. 

Geez how many chances do we give a spouse who lies and crosses boundaries. I wish you all the best in your new life OP.


Also somewhat intrigued that none (unless I missed that) of the pro-porn brigade have mentioned the incest porn or seem in the slightest bit bothered about it. 

How many of you blokes watch incest porn?? 
Do you think this is healthy and normal?

Is incest porn OK..because it's not real.... it's just a movie?

Really?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Waiwera - I was wondering the same thing! I would have a real problem with my H watching rape porn and incest porn. Yuck! 
I think it could be a topic for a new thread! Ok, we know its not real, but really? I would be really concerned if my H was hiding that kind of porn from me .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There are some people who are terrified of something like their partner putting a hand around their throat. *Just because you enjoy doing it* does not mean that everyone has to like it or accept it.


where did you ever read that I enjoyed it


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

HappyHubby said:


> Well it seems like its not the porn as much as his violent tendencies. The violent porn is just a symptom of his anger and hate. If you are afraid of him for GOOD cause then the rape porn is just another indication that he is not making the effort to fix whatever problems he has in his mind..


Yep. I think we all went chasing down that rabbit hole because the thread's title and the bulk of the original post's content led us that way.

The original post reads like, "He watched porn and I didn't like it. It was an issue. And I confronted him about it. And it was repulsive too. And it really bothered me. And it was a horrible thing. Oh, and he physically assaulted me. But back to the porn, that really really made me feel violated and I think I need to get out."

I know sometimes it can be difficult when there's a major issue and you're feeling desperate to accurately convey the important points, and it looks like that's what happened here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

waiwera said:


> Also somewhat intrigued that none (unless I missed that) of the pro-porn brigade have mentioned the incest porn or seem in the slightest bit bothered about it.
> 
> How many of you blokes watch incest porn??
> Do you think this is healthy and normal?
> ...


This thread has me asking similar questions. Sometimes looking at similar things.. fantacies about tabo subject...

Is fake kiddy port ok because it's not real? Say either the 'child' is a very young looking person over 18 or it's cartoons or computer animations... is a steady diet of simulated kiddy porn ok?

Not talking about someone who looks at something like fake rape a few times out of some curiosity.. but a steady diet of this stuff.


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## Terry_CO (Oct 23, 2012)

OP - I think your husband is displaying S&M tendencies and the fact that he actually hurt you tells me he is barely able to control it. You are an unwilling participant, but he hurt you anyways ....

1. People who enjoy S&M must be willing participants or it becomes something akin to rape.

2. You don't hurt your spouse against her will .......

*EVER!*

I would rather open one of my arteries than hurt my wife. I'm sure most married men here agree.

Get him help, or if he refuses, get out while he is still teetering!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ATC529R said:


> where did you ever read that I enjoyed it


Oh so you put your hands about your sex partners neck from time to time but you do not enjoy do it? Ok, then silly me…. To assume that people tend to do things during sex that they enjoy.

People who are terrified of things like having a hand put around their neck during sex are terrified by it even if the person doing this is not enjoying it.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

waiwera said:


> Also somewhat intrigued that none (unless I missed that) of the pro-porn brigade have mentioned the incest porn or seem in the slightest bit bothered about it.
> 
> How many of you blokes watch incest porn??
> Do you think this is healthy and normal?
> ...


I don't watch it. Primarily because the "storyline" aspect isn't what I'm watching for. But, as long as the viewer has a firm grasp on reality and understands the difference between truth and fiction...to each their own. We all often find a degree of fascination in fiction that portrays something we would never in a million years consider acceptable in the real world. This isn't limited to porn, but to all forms of entertainment. That semi-conscious knowledge that what we're seeing isn't real helps us in our viewing.

So, "healthy and normal?" No less so than going back and watching Luke Skywalker falling for his sister and gloating over locking lips with her. (And oh, how reinterpretations of Star Wars works published prior to 1983 have scrambled to backpedal over introducing a budding romance between the two.) How about Oedipus? Should we be concerned if someone enjoys a production of the Ancient Greek play that gave the complex its name?

It may not be to everyone's liking, but, in that context...

Yes, really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

EleGirl said:


> This thread has me asking similar questions. Sometimes looking at similar things.. fantacies about tabo subject...
> 
> Is fake kiddy port ok because it's not real? Say either the 'child' is a very young looking person over 18 or it's cartoons or computer animations... is a steady diet of simulated kiddy porn ok?
> 
> Not talking about someone who looks at something like fake rape a few times out of some curiosity.. but a steady diet of this stuff.


Absolutely! You only have to look at how much money is charged to advertisers for prime time television.. i'm thinking American sports.. it's common knowledge that what we see influences us in a big way... and the more we see it the more we are influenced.

We all see so much sex and violence on TV, movies etc.. i really worry about what kind of desensitized and cruel world we are leaving for our children to inherit. What will be on our computers and televisions in another 50 years??

The mind boggles.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Oh so you put your hands about your sex partners neck from time to time but you do not enjoy do it? Ok, then silly me…. To assume that people tend to do things during sex that they enjoy.
> 
> People who are terrified of things like having a hand put around their neck during sex are terrified by it even if the person doing this is not enjoying it.


My wife enjoys it. I don't. I enjoy her reaction to it, though. Doesn't give me any particular charge to do it, but seeing how she responds does. She does it to me and seems to get a kick out of it, but it's just uncomfortable. In the end, it's all about communication and understanding between both partners of what does it for each of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

Well the thing is EleGirl,

Even though i enjoy seeing young women portrayed as children engaging in sexual behavior with adult men,it doesn't mean I want to have sex with a child.
That's just crazy!

There's just something about watching someone pretending to be a child while having sex that really get's me going, and if the pretend child pretends to enjoy being raped by her pretend father , well that just makes it better and sexier.

But it's all fantasy, of course 



EleGirl said:


> This thread has me asking similar questions. Sometimes looking at similar things.. fantacies about tabo subject...
> 
> Is fake kiddy port ok because it's not real? Say either the 'child' is a very young looking person over 18 or it's cartoons or computer animations... is a steady diet of simulated kiddy porn ok?
> 
> Not talking about someone who looks at something like fake rape a few times out of some curiosity.. but a steady diet of this stuff.


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## vspinkgrl (Dec 4, 2012)

Getting your jollies to a father having sex with his daughter is disgusting. I don't care how you slice it.

Finding Oedipus or Star Wars entertaining is different than me whipping out my vibrator while its on.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Oh so you put your hands about your sex partners neck from time to time but you do not enjoy do it? Ok, then silly me…. To assume that people tend to do things during sex that they enjoy.
> 
> People who are terrified of things like having a hand put around their neck during sex are terrified by it even if the person doing this is not enjoying it.


I'll try to excuse your post which is dripping with sarcasm and chalk it up to rudeness because you read that in the very same post that mentioned hand around neck mentioned my wife having rape fantasies. So yes, I have done it.......but maybe 1-2 times @ most for my wifes enjoyment.

funny you attack, and if I do so in return I'll get another 30 days when you run and tell. just amazing.

keep fighting the good fight there.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

waiwera said:


> Absolutely! You only have to look at how much money is charged to advertisers for prime time television.. i'm thinking American sports.. it's common knowledge that what we see influences us in a big way... and the more we see it the more we are influenced.
> 
> We all see so much sex and violence on TV, movies etc.. i really worry about what kind of desensitized and cruel world we are leaving for our children to inherit. What will be on our computers and televisions in another 50 years??
> 
> The mind boggles.


Concerning video games, but the same principle applies:

http://cbldf.org/2013/03/former-fbi-profiler-says-video-games-dont-cause-violence/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Violent video games will not cause violence when the players are emotionally healthy, stable individuals, but they can increase the likelihood of violence where there is the presence of a number of contributing factors. So I wonder if the same is true for violent porn?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Grayson said:


> I don't watch it. Primarily because the "storyline" aspect isn't what I'm watching for. But, as long as the viewer has a firm grasp on reality and understands the difference between truth and fiction...to each their own. We all often find a degree of fascination in fiction that portrays something we would never in a million years consider acceptable in the real world. This isn't limited to porn, but to all forms of entertainment. That semi-conscious knowledge that what we're seeing isn't real helps us in our viewing.
> 
> So, "healthy and normal?" No less so than going back and watching Luke Skywalker falling for his sister and gloating over locking lips with her. (And oh, how reinterpretations of Star Wars works published prior to 1983 have scrambled to backpedal over introducing a budding romance between the two.) How about Oedipus? Should we be concerned if someone enjoys a production of the Ancient Greek play that gave the complex its name?
> 
> ...


Ok...thank you for your thoughtful response.
I'm still not getting this... I'll think about it some more.

I'm a mum of three almost adult sons... I have to admit it makes me nauseous to think of them watching incest or rape porn and thinking it's OK and acceptable.

I see them come off their war or driving video games...all irritable and pushy and shovey with each other. They know it's not real. 

Doesn't mean it doesn't effect them... and ya know ... I could no doubt go and find a link to back up my statement. We can all do that with google as our friend. There is is link online to confirm anything and everything.. my kids do this all the time.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> This thread has me asking similar questions. Sometimes looking at similar things.. fantacies about tabo subject...
> 
> Is fake kiddy port ok because it's not real? Say either the 'child' is a very young looking person over 18 or it's cartoons or computer animations... is a steady diet of simulated kiddy porn ok?
> 
> Not talking about someone who looks at something like fake rape a few times out of some curiosity.. but a steady diet of this stuff.


Should no one have watched "Silence of the Lambs" because of the subject matter? 

Whether or not it's OK always depends on the viewer, not the subject matter. What's the ratio of men who watch simulated kiddie porn to pedophiles? 100:1? 1000:1? I don't know, but unless there's a causal link between the viewing and the doing, it's hard to place the blame on the medium.

Just a big fan of the First Amendment and personal responsibility here.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

' There's just something about watching someone pretending to be a child while having sex that really get's me going, and if the pretend child pretends to enjoy being raped by her pretend father , well that just makes it better and sexier.'

So what age child are we talking about here?
16? 13? 10?
Just genuinely curious!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

aribabe said:


> Well the thing is EleGirl,
> 
> Even though i enjoy seeing young women portrayed as children engaging in sexual behavior with adult men,it doesn't mean I want to have sex with a child.
> That's just crazy!


You're right. It is crazy to draw a conclusion that what one sees in a known work of fiction translates to real world desires. Otherwise, we must conclude that, based on my current favorite programs and movies that I want to be:

A Jedi Knight performing in a high school show choir in a time of impending extended winter during a zombie apocalypse. Or, at least, that's what I write about as I shadow the homicide detective I'm secretly dating before going home to my socially inept physicist roommate.



> There's just something about watching someone pretending to be a child while having sex that really get's me going, and if the pretend child pretends to enjoy being raped by her pretend father , well that just makes it better and sexier.
> 
> But it's all fantasy, of course


You're right. It is all fantasy. In my amalgamation of shows above, I mention Glee. I won't lie - I find Heather Morris attractive. Since she played a minor for the first couple of seasons (despite being 22 when the show began), should I not have found he attractive? I likewise referenced Game of Thrones. One of the storylines I find most intriguing is that of Danaerys Targeryn. Dani was sold as a warlord's consort by her brother, was rather forcefully taken by the warlord, grew close to him only to see him killed and lose their unborn baby. In her arguably most iconic scene, she is completely naked, and the actress is certainly my "type." In the books, the character's age is given as 15 (although no specific age is given on the show). So, should I not find that storyline captivating?

In truth, I think that most who enjoy "incest" porn are turned on not by the concept that the actress is a proxy for a minor, but that there's such an obvious disparity in the ages...it feeds the male sexual ego that, when they're old, younger women will still want them. And, there's a certain degree of liking the young look, secure in the knowledge that the actress is indeed an adult.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

waiwera said:


> Also somewhat intrigued that none (unless I missed that) of the pro-porn brigade have mentioned the incest porn or seem in the slightest bit bothered about it.
> 
> How many of you blokes watch incest porn??
> Do you think this is healthy and normal?
> ...


I suppose I'm the captain of the "pro-porn" brigade. Does that make you the captain of the "pro-divorce" brigade?

I'm personally not into incest porn. I don't really think it's healthy. However. I recognize that watching porn doesn't necessarily mean diddly about the behavior of the person watching it.

I think some of the most disturbing entertainment available is on network TV during prime time. I've frequently remarked that anyone who writes for Criminal Minds, or The Following should be psychologically evaluated. But, I say it in jest. I'm not aware of any TV writers who have brought their sickening, murderous plot lines to life.

If I were married to a writer on The Following, I wouldn't use her scripts as justification for divorce.

Really.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

PHTlump said:


> I suppose I'm the captain of the "pro-porn" brigade. Does that make you the captain of the "pro-divorce" brigade?.


I've been married once.. just had our 23rd anniversary.

You sure do post some strange things.


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## vspinkgrl (Dec 4, 2012)

I get that some men like younger girls...so watch "barely legal" porn. Why on Earth does it have to be INCEST? I'd be so worried about my kids.

Some men watch asian porn, and its natural to assume he finds having sex with an asian hot and arousing. I see it as you watch it, you get turned on because you LIKE it. So you would find having sex with your own child hot? I don't think its outlandish to be like...seriously dude? Your on SERIOUS creeper status.

I can totally relate this to the child porn question...this conversation would be going a different way if this was the genre in question. What if she had found child porn and he said "I was just curious..and oh by the way I want you to dress like a baby next time we do it, don't be a prude."...Straight to the cops.

Incest on my home computer=Your sick in the head.
Incest AND rape on home computer=You may want to rape our kids oh and your sick in the head.

Just my thoughts. Zero tolerance over here.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

So incest porn isn't healthy, but rape porn is ok?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Grayson said:


> My wife enjoys it. I don't. I enjoy her reaction to it, though. Doesn't give me any particular charge to do it, but seeing how she responds does. She does it to me and seems to get a kick out of it, but it's just uncomfortable. In the end, it's all about communication and understanding between both partners of what does it for each of them.


Your post supports my point... people are different and thus react differently. Each person's likes, desires, and reactions are not wrong as long as they are not hurting anyone in the process.

So to tell anyone what they are wrong or a prude to reacting negatively to violence is sex is just wrong. (Not saying you did this. I’m making a general statement.)

Further, telling the OP that she was wrong to react negatively to her husband putting a telephone cord around neck is sheer nonsense.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

waiwera said:


> You sure do post some strange things.


Likewise.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> So incest porn isn't healthy, but rape porn is ok?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You misunderstand me. I'm not arguing that any porn is great and wonderful. I'm just arguing that it's not so awful that it justifies divorce. And, that it doesn't necessarily influence the people who watch it to mimic the on-screen action anymore than TV shows, movies, or video games that deal with other subject matter.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Further, telling the OP that she was wrong to react negatively to her husband putting a telephone cord around neck is sheer nonsense.


Are you saying that someone has done that, or are you just making another general statement?


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

> Grayson said:
> 
> 
> > You're right. It is crazy to draw a conclusion that what one sees in a known work of fiction translates to real world desires. Otherwise, we must conclude that, based on my current favorite programs and movies that I want to be:
> ...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

vspinkgrl said:


> Some men watch asian porn, and its natural to assume he finds having sex with an asian hot and arousing. I see it as you watch it, you get turned on because you LIKE it.


Would you then follow your own logic to the conclusion that people who enjoy watching slasher flicks must LIKE violent death? Not as an entertainment subject, I mean in real life, like you're arguing that pornography translates to.



vspinkgrl said:


> I can totally relate this to the child porn question...this conversation would be going a different way if this was the genre in question. What if she had found child porn and he said "I was just curious..and oh by the way I want you to dress like a baby next time we do it, don't be a prude."...Straight to the cops.


And you would be correct. But for a different reason. Rape, incest, and barely legal porn are made by adults for adults. The actors, producers, and consumers are all consenting adults.

Children can not consent. Child pornography is a crime. It's not a fictional portrayal of a crime. It is an actual recording of a crime. There is quite a difference.

I can watch a dramatic reenactment of the Manson family murders and be entertained. If actual footage existed, it would disgust me.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

not everybody likes the young look. I like the milf look.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

aribabe would you mind answering my question please about the age of 'child' . Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

> daisygirl 41 said:
> 
> 
> > ' There's just something about watching someone pretending to be a child while having sex that really get's me going, and if the pretend child pretends to enjoy being raped by her pretend father , well that just makes it better and sexier.'
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ATC529R said:


> I'll try to excuse your post which is dripping with sarcasm and chalk it up to rudeness because you read that in the very same post that mentioned hand around neck mentioned my wife having rape fantasies. So yes, I have done it.......but maybe 1-2 times @ most for my wifes enjoyment.


Your wife having these fantacies has nothing to do with the OP or her situation. YOu putting your hands around your wife's thoat has nothing to do with the OP. 

The OP cannot handle rape porn. She has as much right to be repulsed by rape porn and to be replused by her husband watching a steady diet of it as you and your wife have to play out rape fantacies. 



ATC529R said:


> funny you attack, and if I do so in return I'll get another 30 days when you run and tell. just amazing.
> 
> keep fighting the good fight there.


I attacked? Really? You must be very thin skinned if you thought that was a personal attack.

What makes you think that I will run and tell about anything? Who would I run to? What would I tell them? I have no clue that you are talking about? What are you talking about? This sounds paranoid.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

vspinkgrl said:


> I get that some men like younger girls...so watch "barely legal" porn. Why on Earth does it have to be INCEST? I'd be so worried about my kids.


You'd have to ask them. Like I said, storyline is low on my priority list when choosing porn. I can theorize, though. Some might actually enjoy the storyline, not in an, "I want to do that!" sense, but in the sense of wanting to see how the characters deal with it. Also, in most "barely legal" that I've seen, there's less of an apparent age disparity between the participants; if that's what the viewer gets a charge from, they'll seek that out. Any number of reasons, most of which aren't inherently sinister.



> Some men watch asian porn, and its natural to assume he finds having sex with an asian hot and arousing. I see it as you watch it, you get turned on because you LIKE it. So you would find having sex with your own child hot? I don't think its outlandish to be like...seriously dude? Your on SERIOUS creeper status.


That's assuming that the viewer is mentally projecting himself into what he's viewing. I don't personally make that assumption. Using your example, if I become aroused watching Asian porn, it's because I find that particular "look" arousing. Odds are, even though I may like that "look," that may not be where my heart and actions lie. I'll throw myself on my own sword here as an example. I have a thing for "cute" petite redheads. Think Alyson Hannigan during Buffy. But, I'm married to a larger, brunette. And, being married, I know that, should the opportunity arise to be with a cute petite redhead, I'd let it go. I think you'll find most guys the same.

[Quite]I can totally relate this to the child porn question...this conversation would be going a different way if this was the genre in question. What if she had found child porn and he said "I was just curious..and oh by the way I want you to dress like a baby next time we do it, don't be a prude."...Straight to the cops.[/quote]

I think we need to make a distinction here. If it were truly child porn, you'd be right. We'd ALL be calling the cops. If it were simulated, I'd be hard pressed to alert the authorities, as that makes for quite the slippery slope. By that yardstick, even something like Disney Family channel's Secret Life of the American Teenager is "child porn."



> Incest on my home computer=Your sick in the head.
> Incest AND rape on home computer=You may want to rape our kids oh and your sick in the head.


If it's undeniably fiction, though, your logic doesn't track. Do you make the same assumption that someone who watches Dexter wants to be a serial killer? That someone who watches The Big Bang Theory wants to be a socially awkward scientist? The examples can go on and on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Further, telling the OP that she was wrong to react negatively to her husband putting a telephone cord around neck is sheer nonsense.





PHTlump said:


> Are you saying that someone has done that, or are you just making another general statement?


I do interpret the below post as saying that the OP was wrong in reacting negatively to her husband choking her with a telephone cord and also twisting/pinching/hurting her until the OP’s leg was bruised. 


ATC529R said:


> no room for serious violence in the bedroom, but given her paradigm.....do we really know if it was violence?
> 
> cause if leaving a bruise from sex is violence...well lock me up.
> 
> and who hasn't done the occassional hand around the troat during rough sex.....


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Well, we've degenerated into another porn thread. Hooray. 'Course, this one sort of started out that way.

Not that anyone cares, but I'll be bailing out 'bout now. The moderators will be along before too long to start sorting out the bodies.


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## vspinkgrl (Dec 4, 2012)

Yes, people like to go and be in suspense and scared by a slasher flick. Would it be ok if someone was whacking off while people were getting killed? Acting or not...what would you do? Look at him and smile? We are talking about SEXUAL preferences here. And the OP stated that he is trying to bring these things into the bedroom so it has already translated to real life. That's what sick people do, they kill the birds and cats until it no longer satisfies them. 


And you would be correct. But for a different reason. Rape, incest, and barely legal porn are made by adults for adults. The actors, producers, and consumers are all consenting adults.

Children can not consent. Child pornography is a crime. It's not a fictional portrayal of a crime. It is an actual recording of a crime. There is quite a difference.

I can watch a dramatic reenactment of the Manson family murders and be entertained. If actual footage existed, it would disgust me.[/QUOTE]

So if they dressed up midgets like kids and called it child porn its then ok, because they arent REALLY 5 and 6 years old. :scratchhead: Its just a way around getting thrown in jail for being caught with it. That is not the kind of porn someone would leave out for their buddies to see because its shameful and indicative of tendencies towards children.


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## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

Too many of the responses here are about people scoffing at what they see as the op judging *them* through her computer, regarding sex. Many posts on this site are from people (mainly men) complaining that their wives are too 'vanilla' and that this 'inherent fault' in their thinking is due to ignorance and prudishness, themes/words that have been thrown repeatedly at the op in this thread. I find it disgusting. I personally do not have problem with the concept of violet porn, but a person is not a prude because they are not totally blase on finding reams of rape and incest porn on the computer, and/or because their reaction is one of revulsion. The op may have an unfashionable stance in this day and age, but they do not deserve abuse and dismissal of their problems because others feel judged.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> You misunderstand me. I'm not arguing that any porn is great and wonderful. *I'm just arguing that it's not so awful that it justifies divorce.* And, that it doesn't necessarily influence the people who watch it to mimic the on-screen action anymore than TV shows, movies, or video games that deal with other subject matter.


It isn't... *to YOU*, that is. For some, it IS a deal breaker. For some, ANY kind of porn, whether "regular", "kiddie", fetish, etc. It doesn't make a difference for some people. 

Really, I see it this way: OP gave him a chance the first time. He said he stopped, said he WOULD stop, wouldn't start up again, or however he worded it. She accepted it and they moved on. She came across new porn on the computer a few years later. For her, this may well be a deal breaker. If it is, then that's HER choice. But she has also said there is MUCH more... violent tendencies, even without the violent porn. That, in and of itself, would be a no brainer to me. I'd get out if my husband ever choked me, whether during sex or not...whether using his hands or something else. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me. There is no way he will ever get rough to the point that he chokes me. I won't LET him, even if he tried.

But that's just me.

Oh, and incest porn? Look, it's one thing to like the younger-older aspect... that isn't the same as "mommy-son" or "daddy-daughter". When you throw in daddy hooking up with his little girl (no matter the age), or grandpa with his granddaughter, or even Uncle Tom with his niece, that's disgusting. THAT is the problem. It doesn't matter that they are actors/actresses playing a role... what matters is that there are people who get off to thinking of a man with his daughter or granddaughter or niece. It's sick.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

aribabe said:


> > Seeing a work of fiction and seeking out simulated incest, pedophilic child rape porn to masturbate to are not even slightly-ish in the same ball park. And when you have to grasp at such thin straws to make sense of something, it's usually because it doesn't make any sense.
> >
> > After you watched it, did you feel a need to go find simulated child porn to masturbate to?
> > Do you now desire to have sex with a 15 year old?
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Should no one have watched "Silence of the Lambs" because of the subject matter?


Watching "Silence of the Lambs" once or twice is a very different thing then watching something like rape porn on a regular basis and getting sexual pleasure from it. In the movie the violence was not portrayed to give viewer sexual please. It violence is essential to the story. I’ve seen the movie. It’s a very well done movie; IMO, a masterpiece. But it’s also very disturbing. There is a corner of my mind that it haunts. 

Just like seeing a movie like “Silence of the Lambs” once in a while not an issue, watching something like rape porn a few times out of curiosity it probably not much to worry about. But watching often, over a long period of time is, in my opinion, a very different thing. Seeking out images and videos of violence, degradation and harm to others for sexual please indicates that the constant viewer is seeking these things out.

There is another aspect of rape porn that is being ignored here by many. Most people who have been raped/attacked most likely understand some things about rape porn that others do not. They will most likely not just view it as a fun thing to jack off to.

Whether or not it's OK always depends on the viewer, not the subject matter. What's the ratio of men who watch simulated kiddie porn to pedophiles? 100:1? 1000:1? I don't know, but unless there's a causal link between the viewing and the doing, it's hard to place the blame on the medium.



Cletus said:


> Just a big fan of the First Amendment and personal responsibility here.


It’s an issue of personal choice. 
You may or may not like rape porn. You may or may not care if you SO watches it and gets sexual pleasure from it.

However, other people have the right to not like rape porn and not want to be involved with anyone who does get sexual pleasure from it. That is also taking personal responsibility. A person who feels this way is not a prude, they are not “wrong”. They are entitled to their belief system. What bothers me is the attempt of some to vilify anyone who does not want to be with a person who gets off on rape porn.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

vspinkgrl said:


> Yes, people like to go and be in suspense and scared by a slasher flick. Would it be ok if someone was whacking off while people were getting killed?


So it's the act of masturbating that changes the equation? If so, then everything is bad. Fetishes abound for absolutely everything. I can watch Star Trek and find it amusing. Some nerds watch Star Trek and get turned on by a woman in a tight fitting costume with a third eye. Does the fact that they masturbate to that change the content of the show for everyone?


vspinkgrl said:


> And the OP stated that he is trying to bring these things into the bedroom so it has already translated to real life. That's what sick people do, they kill the birds and cats until it no longer satisfies them.


The OP also said that she was married for 21 years before she had any suspicion that her husband might be aroused by rape fantasies. So, I wouldn't imagine that her bedroom was the den of horrors that you're imagining.



vspinkgrl said:


> So if they dressed up midgets like kids and called it child porn its then ok, because they arent REALLY 5 and 6 years old. :scratchhead: Its just a way around getting thrown in jail for being caught with it. That is not the kind of porn someone would leave out for their buddies to see because its shameful and indicative of tendencies towards children.


We can say the same thing about slasher movies. Obviously, if a person started killing hitch hikers and video taping their crimes, we would all want that person in prison. Does that mean a person who owns a fictionalized movie with the same subject matter is just trying to avoid going to jail?


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

> Grayson said:
> 
> 
> > So it's the act of "seeking out" a genre of entertainment that means the viewer wants to emulate it?
> ...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I do interpret the below post as saying that the OP was wrong in reacting negatively to her husband choking her with a telephone cord and also twisting/pinching/hurting her until the OP’s leg was bruised.


I disagree. ATC529R's post assumed that the OP was talking about sexual activity. Given the OP's histrionic reaction to the pornography that her husband was watching, and the fact that her original post focused mostly on the pornography, I think it was fair to question whether the violence she recounted was really serious.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

vspinkgrl said:


> Yes, people like to go and be in suspense and scared by a slasher flick. Would it be ok if someone was whacking off while people were getting killed? Acting or not...what would you do? Look at him and smile? We are talking about SEXUAL preferences here.


Where the heck are you seeing movies that audience members are openly masturbating to _anything_?

But, you've unknowingly hit the nail right on the head: we enjoy the slasher flick because we know it's safe...we know it's fake. We can, like Sidney Prescott, make fun of the slasher's target running up the stairs when she should be running out the door, knowing that, if it were to actually happen to us, we'd probably end up running up the stairs just like Sidney did a heartbeat later. So it is with so-called "taboo" porn. 



> And the OP stated that he is trying to bring these things into the bedroom so it has already translated to real life. That's what sick people do, they kill the birds and cats until it no longer satisfies them.


Did she? Honestly, I've lost track since the actual violence aspect got buried in that original post. Let's agree, for a moment, that he did. As has been mentioned, many people of both genders indulge in "rape" fantasies, be it within their own thoughts or through role play with a partner. It's safe...it's fake, but it's not something they want to happen for real. Also, you're assuming his porn choice is the cause, not the effect. It could just as easily be an outlet for those fantasies, knowing that the OP has always - as she said - instructed him to be gentle during sex.




> So if they dressed up midgets like kids and called it child porn its then ok, because they arent REALLY 5 and 6 years old. :scratchhead: Its just a way around getting thrown in jail for being caught with it. That is not the kind of porn someone would leave out for their buddies to see because its shameful and indicative of tendencies towards children .


If they dressed up little people like kids and called it "child porn," they'd be falsely advertising it. And falsely advertising it as something illegal. But, yes...if they had adults of any stature portraying minors, it is perfectly legal. You may not want to watch it. I may not want to watch it. That doesn't make it inherently wrong. And, most people don't leave porn of *any* kind "laying around for their buddies to see," because porn itself has a social stigma of being "shameful." As for this hypothetical "midget-portraying-child" porn being "indicative of tendencies towards children," we again come full circle, and must also conclude that my having Scream on my DVD shelf means I have tendencies to murder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

aribabe said:


> > We're talking about whatever age seems sexiest at the moment,
> >
> > 10, 12, 15, 16....
> > It's all good.
> ...


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> It isn't... *to YOU*, that is. For some, it IS a deal breaker. For some, ANY kind of porn, whether "regular", "kiddie", fetish, etc. It doesn't make a difference for some people.


Sure. Different strokes. Some men see their wives' gaining 20 lbs as a deal breaker. It doesn't matter to me.

Of course, the OP has argued that she is a committed Christian. As such, it seems reasonable to apply the New Testament definition of a deal breaker (adultery) to her situation.



Maricha75 said:


> Really, I see it this way: OP gave him a chance the first time. He said he stopped, said he WOULD stop, wouldn't start up again, or however he worded it. She accepted it and they moved on. She came across new porn on the computer a few years later. For her, this may well be a deal breaker. If it is, then that's HER choice. But she has also said there is MUCH more... violent tendencies, even without the violent porn. That, in and of itself, would be a no brainer to me. I'd get out if my husband ever choked me, whether during sex or not...whether using his hands or something else. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me. There is no way he will ever get rough to the point that he chokes me. I won't LET him, even if he tried.
> 
> But that's just me.


Again, I agree. I've even written that the OP doesn't even need a reason. We live in a post-feminist age. Reason doesn't matter. She could be bored with her husband and few would even give her a second look.



Maricha75 said:


> Oh, and incest porn? Look, it's one thing to like the younger-older aspect... that isn't the same as "mommy-son" or "daddy-daughter". When you throw in daddy hooking up with his little girl (no matter the age), or grandpa with his granddaughter, or even Uncle Tom with his niece, that's disgusting. THAT is the problem. It doesn't matter that they are actors/actresses playing a role... what matters is that there are people who get off to thinking of a man with his daughter or granddaughter or niece. It's sick.


I'm not arguing that it's socially appropriate entertainment. I'm arguing that someone who views incest porn is not necessarily a practicing, or aspiring, pedophile. Just as someone who watches slasher flicks is not necessarily an aspiring murderer, or someone who plays Dungeons and Dragons doesn't necessarily want to explore caves to find monsters and kill them with a sword.


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

I should bow out too
I already have pretty low opinion of American men
This is just making it so much worse

My husband isn't into "child" porn, incest or otherwise
So I'll just be happy with that and leave the rest of these "men" to theirs.

Good luck OP



daisygirl 41 said:


> Ok so that's me outta here it I'm goi going to end up getting myself banned.
> My H and I are reconciling after his A. If I went home tomorrow and found 'joking' incest kiddy porn on his laptop he'd be gone. Deal breaker. Just absolutely sick!
> 
> Op sorry this has turned into another porn thread I really am. I hope you find the strength and support you need to help you move forward.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

aribabe said:


> I should bow out too
> I already have pretty low opinion of American men
> This is just making it so much worse
> 
> ...


I would reply for the umpteenth time that I'm simply arguing that there is no established, causal effect for viewing pornography, or any other form of entertainment, and mimicking the content of said entertainment. But, something tells me I would be wasting more of my time.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Just like seeing a movie like “Silence of the Lambs” once in a while not an issue, watching something like rape porn a few times out of curiosity it probably not much to worry about. But watching often, over a long period of time is, in my opinion, a very different thing. Seeking out images and videos of violence, degradation and harm to others for sexual please indicates that the constant viewer is seeking these things out.


I disagree. Someone who is, say, a horror movie buff could be considered a "constant viewer seeking these things out," but that doesn't translate to them wanting to apply what they've seen to the real world. It simply means that they've found something in the genre that speaks to them in a way that other genres don't...it sparks analysis, interpretation and just plain enjoyment. I have a friend who will watch any show or movie that's vampire-related, even if he hates it (I'm looking at you, Twilight), because he finds the mythologies of vampires and some contemporary spins on those mythologies to be fascinating, and it's hard to compare what you haven't seen. So, he's gone through the entire Twilight series of movies, hating every moment of it, but adding to his pool of knowledge.

Now, I can hear your eyes rolling from here. I'm not suggesting that everyone (or even most) who enjoy "taboo" genres of porn apply such scholarly analysis to it. I merely make the point that enjoying a certain genre of fiction, distasteful as one might find that genre, doesn't necessarily translate into real world proclivities.



> There is another aspect of rape porn that is being ignored here by many. Most people who have been raped/attacked most likely understand some things about rape porn that others do not. They will most likely not just view it as a fun thing to jack off to.


That goes without saying. And it applies to ANY subject matter. But it's not limited to porn. If we apply the, "someone who's faced it in real life could trigger, so we shouldn't find it acceptable" yardstick, Jodie Foster would be out an Oscar because _The Accused_ would never have been made, for example.



> However, other people have the right to not like rape porn and not want to be involved with anyone who does get sexual pleasure from it. That is also taking personal responsibility. A person who feels this way is not a prude, they are not “wrong”. They are entitled to their belief system. What bothers me is the attempt of some to vilify anyone who does not want to be with a person who gets off on rape porn.


I don't think anyone has said otherwise. What I - and, I believe PHT - take exception to is the notion that those standards that you so accurately describe as vein personal are universal truths...that a genre that some personally find distasteful is inherently bad and that anyone who doesn't find it distasteful is looking to impose the contents of their viewing into their real life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I would reply for the umpteenth time that I'm simply arguing that there is no established, causal effect for viewing pornography, or any other form of entertainment, and mimicking the content of said entertainment. But, something tells me I would be wasting more of my time.


I think you're missing the point!
It's not that I think men who watch fake incest kiddy porn are all budding peados, it's just sick, why that would turn anyone on is just something I don't even want to think about.
I'm really going now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

aribabe said:


> I should bow out too
> I already have pretty low opinion of American men
> This is just making it so much worse


Really? None of us had noticed.

Nice to see a little honest misandry for a change, I guess.

Do you REALLY think most of us are watching rape porn? Surely you know better than that.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I disagree. ATC529R's post assumed that the OP was talking about sexual activity. Given the OP's histrionic reaction to the pornography that her husband was watching, and the fact that her original post focused mostly on the pornography, I think it was fair to question whether the violence she recounted was really serious.


dead on. glad someone has some comprehension skills.

ele; welcome to my ignore list


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So do all of those millions of readers of "50 Shades" really want to become submissives in BDSM relationships?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Of course, the OP has argued that she is a committed Christian. As such, it seems reasonable to apply the New Testament definition of a deal breaker (adultery) to her situation.


Well, since we agree on the rest of your post to me, I'll just address this one. Sure, there is nothing in the Old nor New Testament that says "don't look at movies/videos/pictures of naked women"... However, I would guess that her church, like most I have been familiar with at some time or another, would use Matthew 5:27, 28 in this instance. "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." How would they use this? Simple... when watching the videos, he is lusting after the woman in them. So, whether you or I agree with that Scripture meaning that is irrelevant. If this is how her denomination interprets these verses, then the "porn = adultery of the heart" would apply FOR HER. I'm not saying I agree with this, nor am I saying I disagree. Just pointing out what some could say.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I think you're missing the point!
> It's not that I think men who watch fake incest kiddy porn are all budding peados, it's just sick, why that would turn anyone on is just something I don't even want to think about.
> I'm really going now!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why would someone want to watch the story of a masked madman disemboweling photogenic teenagers?

Why would someone want to watch 40-something med students whine about their love lives?

Why would someone want to watch forensics experts process a gruesome crime scene?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." How would they use this?


Which is why every single hetero man who has ever been married in the history of the world has been an adulterer. Ok, I'll grant you a half dozen possible exceptions.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> I disagree. ATC529R's post assumed that the OP was talking about sexual activity. Given the OP's histrionic reaction to the pornography that her husband was watching, and the fact that her original post focused mostly on the pornography, I think it was fair to question whether the violence she recounted was really serious.


Ok, let's assume that she meant that her husand did these things during sex.


If any man put a telephone cord around my neck without out my permission during sex.. he's gone. I think most women would not find this acceptable.

The same goes for purposely grabbling my leg and pinching it (hurting me) until it brused. Without my prior permission to do this type of thing to me... they guy is gone. 

Both cases would actually warrant filing criminal charges. The first could be considered attempted murder.

The OP was not just reacting to her husband watching porn. She was reacting to his long term, constant use of rape porn. Her reaction to rape porn is not histrionic. Many people, especially women, believe that rape porn is a deal breaker.

Why do many women react strongly against rape porn? Maybe because it’s a very common crime committed against us. Maybe because many of us have been raped and we do not understand who anyone can find what happened to be sexually exciting and are disturbed when they do. .. just maybe?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Which is why every single hetero man who has ever been married in the history of the world has been an adulterer. Ok, I'll grant you a half dozen possible exceptions.





ocotillo said:


> Some Christian denominations teach that infidelity is the only legitimate grounds for divorce based upon this passage:
> 
> Jesus said, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery," (Matt. 19:9).​


LOL I'm not disagreeing. I was only pointing out that if she wanted to use the porn angle as infidelity, as far as the church is concerned, she probably could. And ocotillo, you are correct. In fact, my church is one who does teach that. However, they also teach that if you CAN reconcile after infidelity, then do so...but you don't HAVE to.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

aribabe said:


> > Calling simulated incest kiddie porn entertainment, just made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
> 
> 
> I know how you feel. I have the same reaction to the Twilight books and movies being called "entertainment." But, strictly speaking, the term applies.
> ...


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## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

The op has said that the incidents with the telephone chord and the bruising were nothing to do with sex. They said her husband snapped after over hearing her on the phone to her sister talking about an argument they had, and strangled her with the chord.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> Some Christian denominations teach that infidelity is the only legitimate grounds for divorce based upon this passage:
> 
> 
> Jesus said, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery," (Matt. 19:9).


In infidelity the only thing classified as immorality?


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Gruff said:


> The op has said that the incidents with the telephone chord and the bruising were nothing to do with sex. They said her husband snapped after over hearing her on the phone to her sister talking about an argument they had, and strangled her with the chord.


Yes, but the details came later (some much later) after we all made conclusions based upon the thread title and initial post(s).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> In infidelity the only thing classified as immorality?


He quoted from the New American Standard version.... every other translation I have seen has stated "fornication" or "sexual immorality" or some other variation of those.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It looks like the OP has probably given up on this thread and will not get the help she needs here. I hope she does find the help she needs somewhere without the harsh judgment that she got from some here. The bottom line is that the OP, and anyone else has as much right to object to their SO engaging in a constant, long term diet of rape porn. Apparently many do not believe she has that right.

For the rest… Have fun justifying rape porn. As a victim of rape and attempted murder (strangulation) during said rape... the topic is more than I can handle. I'm out of here unless the OP returns.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> He quoted from the New American Standard version.... every other translation I have seen has stated "fornication" or "sexual immorality" or some other variation of those.


I am aware that there are different translations that use words in this verse that could greatly change the meaning. That's partially why I asked the question I did.

Note that “fornication” is not infidelity. “Fornication” is sex outside of marriage.

“Sexual immorality” is not limited to infidelity. Some might argue that viewing rape porn is sexual immorality. 

Note that the OP does also make some remark about her husband’s other extracurricular activities. I got the impression that he has cheated on her. Don’t know if she will come back and clarify that. But she might very well have enough legitimate reasons for divorce no matter what word is used in that verse.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Now that we're making decisions based on language from the Bible, I'll check out too.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> The OP was not just reacting to her husband watching porn. She was reacting to his long term, constant use of rape porn. Her reaction to rape porn is not histrionic. Many people, especially women, believe that rape porn is a deal breaker.
> 
> Why do many women react strongly against rape porn? Maybe because it’s a very common crime committed against us. Maybe because many of us have been raped and we do not understand who anyone can find what happened to be sexually exciting and are disturbed when they do. .. just maybe?


And I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone MUST like it. At the same time, I think you would find that the many women who indulge in rape fantasies would take exception with being called "disturbed." And, the same aspects of power and surrender that make those fantasies appealing are in play when watching rape-themed porn. He disgusted at the content...be repulsed...be outraged, even understanding its fiction. But someone else also understanding it's fiction and enjoying the fantasy within the safety of that fiction doesn't make them disturbed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rumen.hristov (Mar 5, 2013)

Your husband has commited an illusionary, lustful, emotional adultery. You have your complete right to be out of that marriage. And whoever those church ministers are, they are telling you total bull****. I am myself from tha adventist church and I have never heard such bull**** as you describe in the last paragraph, they told you. Just, pack your stuff, when he is out of the house and leave. Don't go into arguments, don't tell him anything. Just pack your stuff and be on the go. Maybe leave him a note, but do not mention where you are. And then, it is up to you to decide if you ever want to get back with him or not. If you decide you do, however, make sure that you are absolutely sure that this sadistic and addictive fetish or behavior(I don't know which word is more appropriate in your case) has been looked after and that he has gone through psychological therapy. These issues do not go away without the help of a psychologist. They just won't in your case either. Hope it works out well for you(the leaving part).


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> It looks like the OP has probably given up on this thread and will not get the help she needs here. I hope she does find the help she needs somewhere without the harsh judgment that she got from some here. The bottom line is that the OP, and anyone else has as much right to object to their SO engaging in a constant, long term diet of rape porn. Apparently many do not believe she has that right.


I think we've been reading different threads. I didn't see anyone make such a claim, although I did see (and participate in) a digression about whether that genre was inherently bad and indicative of the viewer desiring to take part in such acts in their real life.



> For the rest… Have fun justifying rape porn. As a victim of rape and attempted murder (strangulation) during said rape... the topic is more than I can handle. I'm out of here unless the OP returns.


And that's understandable. In fact, I don't think the word "understandable" is adequate. Our life experiences color our perceptions of everything, up to and including whatever media we find personally acceptable and enjoyable. It can even color our perceptions of something we've previously enjoyed. (Before my wife's A, for example, I found the subplot of Taub's chronic infidelity on House to just be another aspect of the show. Afterwards, I found Taub detestable and those scenes painful to watch.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Doneworking,

Yes, please leave your husband. *Please spare him from a life of hen-pecked misery where a grown man needs permission from his wife and his adult daughter before he can look at porn*. I would be out of that house in a second if I was him.

As others pointed out here, plenty of women have rape fantasies with no intention of being raped. I am male, yet if you checked the porn on my computer, you would find mostly lesbian porn. Does that mean I really want to be a lesbian?? Oh, and I have some rape porn, bdsm, and probably some incest porn too. My wife, by the way, gets aroused by certain incest stories, yet I am not the slightest bit worried about her with the children, that would be ludicrous. 

BTW, bruising your thigh is actually pretty common during sex, so I'm going to ignore that one unless you can expand on it. As far as the phone cord incident goes, something is a little off. You just said he put the cord around your neck. So did he actually try to choke you or not? If he did, you should have filed charges and left. If he didn't, I don't understand what you would accomplish by going to the emergency room. It's not like hurting your arm, where you're not sure if it's broken or not. With choking, it's pretty plain whether he was trying to kill you or not; there's not much ambiguity there. Moreover, we have to take the context of apparently this was ONE incident in 27 years, and you didn't leave him at that time, so it seems like an awfully weak excuse to leave him for it now, but it's your choice.

So now, go and leave your husband so you can move on and someday be happy with a new man who doesn't look at any porn at all. Problem is, that man doesn't even exist! LOL, so good luck finding him.

Here's an article you might find interesting:

*"All men watch porn, scientists find"*
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/6709646/All-men-watch-porn-scientists-find.html


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> Ok, let's assume that she meant that her husand did these things during sex.
> 
> If any man put a telephone cord around my neck without out my permission during sex.. he's gone. I think most women would not find this acceptable.


What you find acceptable is up to you. Just as you would put no stock in 25 years of marriage, I would be more hesitant to divorce my wife over something she did once. Perhaps I'm more sentimental than you are.

For what it's worth, I have tried things with my wife during sex. Some things she liked. Some things she didn't. Fortunately, I felt secure that I could try something without her reacting extremely negatively.

If I were married to you, and you had threatened me with divorce immediately upon trying anything that you hadn't pre-approved and/or found distasteful, then I would never try anything new in the sack that was unannounced. And I would be very reticent to even ask permission to try anything. And I would certainly get any permission slips notarized. We would have to meet to negotiate our sex life at the bank. 



EleGirl said:


> Both cases would actually warrant filing criminal charges. The first could be considered attempted murder.


If the OP's husband was trying to kill her, you would be correct. Given that the incident was buried deep in her original post where she spent the first two paragraphs, and the first part of the third, focusing on her husband's pornography viewing, I would hazard to guess that the OP doesn't believe her husband was intending to kill her.



EleGirl said:


> The OP was not just reacting to her husband watching porn. She was reacting to his long term, constant use of rape porn. Her reaction to rape porn is not histrionic. Many people, especially women, believe that rape porn is a deal breaker.


That's OK. What is histrionic is to equate the subject matter of the pornography he was viewing with his feelings toward women, his children, or much else.

If a woman finds out that her husband views a certain genre of pornography, which she finds distasteful enough to immediately lose all attraction to him, so she divorces him, that is a justifiable personal reason. If she same woman immediately becomes frightened of the man she has spent decades married to, then she is being unreasonable and histrionic.



EleGirl said:


> Why do many women react strongly against rape porn? Maybe because it’s a very common crime committed against us. Maybe because many of us have been raped and we do not understand who anyone can find what happened to be sexually exciting and are disturbed when they do. .. just maybe?


Sure. All those things and more. I, for one, consider murder to be a more serious crime than rape. But I wouldn't become afraid of my wife if she enjoyed watching a horror movie that featured a histrionic woman killing her husband. I would just chalk it up to entertainment.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Theseus said:


> BTW, bruising your thigh is actually pretty common during sex, so I'm going to ignore that one unless you can expand on it. As far as the phone cord incident goes, something is a little off.


Purposely pinching/twisting the flesh on a woman's leg until it bruses is common in sex? Really?


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> In infidelity the only thing classified as immorality?


The phrase is, ει μη επι πορνεια

_Pornea_ can include sexual acts as diverse as bestiality, but I think that borders on the, "Translate with a dictionary" mentality rampant in amateur hermeneutics. 

Literal and dynamic equivalent translations are going to render _pornea_ pretty uniformly as "Fornication" The specific connotation of marital unfaithfulness only comes through in paraphrased translations like the NW, CEB, NCV, Phillips, etc.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Sure. All those things and more. I, for one, consider murder to be a more serious crime than rape. But I wouldn't become afraid of my wife if she enjoyed watching a horror movie that featured a histrionic woman killing her husband. I would just chalk it up to entertainment.


How about if she chose that type of movie to watch over and over for years? How about if she masterbated to it and got sexual pleasure from the murder of husbands?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> The phrase is, ει μη επι πορνεια
> 
> _Pornea_ can include sexual acts as diverse as bestiality, but I think that borders on the, "Translate with a dictionary" mentality rampant in amateur hermeneutics.
> 
> Literal and dynamic equivalent translations are going to render _pornea_ pretty uniformly as "Fornication" The connotation of unfaithfulness only comes through in paraphrased translations like the NW, CEB, NCV, Phillips, etc.


Yep, so it does not only include infidelity as the immoral acts that justify divorce.


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## boogie110 (Aug 3, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Let's look at this from another perspective.
> 
> There are a surprising number of women who have rape fantasies. The idea of being taken violently is a huge attraction for them, even if they are personally disgusted or disturbed by the images they self-conjure or the idea of rape for real.
> 
> ...


I don't think you read the whole post - IT'S EXTREMELY LONG! So I don't blame you that you possibly glossed over the fact that he took a cord and wrapped it around her neck and twisted her inner thigh until it was black and blue - OOOUCCCCH! I doubt you would think that is what you meant by living in his fantasy since she did not want those things happening to her.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> How about if she chose that type of movie to watch over and over for years?


I say this half-jokingly...you've just described someone who makes a steady diet of Lifetime movies. ;/)



> How about if she masterbated to it and got sexual pleasure from the murder of husbands?


If that's her thing, and her behavior in real life doesn't change, have at it. My wife swoons over watching someone play a murdeous bad-boy vampire on True Blood. I don't think she's going to start trying to drink my blood.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

boogie110 said:


> I don't think you read the whole post - IT'S EXTREMELY LONG! So I don't blame you that you possibly glossed over the fact that he took a cord and wrapped it around her neck and twisted her inner thigh until it was black and blue - OOOUCCCCH! I doubt you would think that is what you meant by living in his fantasy since she did not want those things happening to her.


Oh, the OP most definitely buried the headline. Not only was the original post long, it was centered around the porn, with the actual violence included almost as an aside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Grayson said:


> And I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone MUST like it. At the same time, I think you would find that the many women who indulge in rape fantasies would take exception with being called "disturbed." And, the same aspects of power and surrender that make those fantasies appealing are in play when watching rape-themed porn. He disgusted at the content...be repulsed...be outraged, even understanding its fiction. But someone else also understanding it's fiction and enjoying the fantasy within the safety of that fiction doesn't make them disturbed.


There are posts that say that she is wrong to think there is anything wrong with her husband's long term use of violent rape porn. She was called a prude for having an issue with it.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> It looks like the OP has probably given up on this thread and will not get the help she needs here.


If, by help, you mean unanimous agreement that her daughter was justified in tattling on her father to the church, that her husband has either suddenly become a dangerous menace, or was always a dangerous menace, he just managed to hide it for decades, that viewing rape pornography is ample justification to divorce within the Church, and that anyone who views pornography with distasteful subject matter is an inhuman monster who desires to mimic the subject matter in real life, then you are correct. She will not find that here. What I find confusing is why you think she should find that here.



EleGirl said:


> I hope she does find the help she needs somewhere without the harsh judgment that she got from some here.


I didn't see any harsh judgment. Does offering a contrary point of view constitute "harsh judgment?" If so, I think some folks are being just a touch too sensitive.



EleGirl said:


> The bottom line is that the OP, and anyone else has as much right to object to their SO engaging in a constant, long term diet of rape porn. Apparently many do not believe she has that right.


You jumped the shark here. Again. I'm not saying she can't decide to divorce her husband. I'm saying viewing rape porn doesn't make a man a rapist. That seems like such a simple concept to me. Why so many fail to grasp it is genuinely confusing.



EleGirl said:


> For the rest… Have fun justifying rape porn. As a victim of rape and attempted murder (strangulation) during said rape... the topic is more than I can handle. I'm out of here unless the OP returns.


That explains a lot. You can't be dispassionate about the subject matter. I understand that. Personally, I have never been raped. And I have seen rape porn. And, curiously, I have never raped anyone.


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## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

Theseus said:


> BTW, bruising your thigh is actually pretty common during sex, so I'm going to ignore that one unless you can expand on it.


The op has stated that neither of those incidents- the bruising and the phone chord incident, were anything to do with sex. I am not going to trawl through this thread to find the quote, but that is what they said. They did not however expand on the bruising incident other than saying that.



Theseus said:


> As far as the phone cord incident goes, something is a little off. You just said he put the cord around your neck. So did he actually try to choke you or not? If he did, you should have filed charges and left. If he didn't, I don't understand what you would accomplish by going to the emergency room. It's not like hurting your arm, where you're not sure if it's broken or not. With choking, it's pretty plain whether he was trying to kill you or not; there's not much ambiguity there.


Stop trying to minimize the SERIOUS VIOLENT INCIDENT with total piffle and nonsense to achieve your aims.



Theseus said:


> Moreover, we have to take the context of apparently this was ONE incident in 27 years, and you didn't leave him at that time, so it seems like an awfully weak excuse to leave him for it now, but it's your choice.


Do we all get one freebie with regards to violence every couple of decades? I think not. I would expect a decent, respectful spouse to manage tens of decades without snapping. It is inexcusable.
I'm also not sure how the passing of time after the incident somehow makes it less severe of an issue. What has that got to do with anything?!


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Yep, so it does not only include infidelity as the immoral acts that justify divorce.


Well literal and DE translations are closest to the original text, but _not always _closer to the original meaning. 

(As an extreme example, there's an American Christian sect that bases a doctrine forbidding blood transfusion on the grammatically incomplete construction a modern English reader experiences with a literal rendering of Acts 15:29)


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> There are posts that say that she is wrong to think there is anything wrong with her husband's long term use of violent rape porn. She was called a prude for having an issue with it.


Perhaps it's splitting hairs, but I don't think saying that it's not indicative of behavioral issues with him is insisting that she like it herself, but I see where you're coming from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Purposely pinching/twisting the flesh on a woman's leg until it bruses is common in sex? Really?



In my experience yes, I have inadvertently bruised women many times. When you are in passion, you often grab someone's thigh, pinch their bottom, etc. Bruises are not such a big deal. On the flip side, I've received long scratches along my back during sex. I suppose I could have gone to the police and/or emergency room, but that would be foolish, because the sex was great, and I wanted more, not less. 

Maybe you are imagining it in the worst way possible; ie. the husband holding her down, twisting her thigh and laughing maniacally as he watches her suffer. But I don't picture it happening that way, unless the OP gives us more information.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Theseus said:


> So now, go and leave your husband so you can move on and someday be happy with a new man who doesn't look at any porn at all. Problem is, that man doesn't even exist! LOL, so good luck finding him.
> 
> Here's an article you might find interesting:
> 
> ...


Hmmm... I would agree that it is rare to find a man who doesn't watch porn, but not impossible. Remarkably, there are some who *gasp* see it in their teens and find it disgusting, and don't view it again. Shocking, I know, but they do exist. I have one of those. And spare me the "you only think you know" bullsh!t... I've gone through THAT argument more times than I can count. Suffice it to say, I know my husband's habits... very well.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Gruff said:


> Stop trying to minimize the SERIOUS VIOLENT INCIDENT with total piffle and nonsense to achieve your aims.


Gruff, I don't know you, but I would appreciate if you actually read what I wrote, and not trying to twist my words into something else. 

I wrote that if he really did try to choke her, then _* "you should have filed charges and left."*_ Exact words.



> Do we all get one freebie with regards to violence every couple of decades? I think not. I would expect a decent, respectful spouse to manage tens of decades without snapping. It is inexcusable.


I agree. I never said otherwise. But one incident in 27 years means it is pretty darn rare. Many people get sentenced to less than 27 years in jail even if they murder someone. 




> I'm also not sure how the passing of time after the incident somehow makes it less severe of an issue. What has that got to do with anything?!



I think it has a lot to do with it. The OP didn't consider the issue to be serious enough to leave him or press charges at that time. Only when she saw the porn did she decide to leave him. So I don't think the incident is very germane to her concerns at the moment.


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## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

I have also known several men who did not watch porn, and it was entirely plausible because neither owned a computer. So this idea that 100% are doing it is more piffle.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Theseus said:


> In my experience yes, I have inadvertently bruised women many times. When you are in passion, you often grab someone's thigh, pinch their bottom, etc. Bruises are not such a big deal. On the flip side, I've received long scratches along my back during sex. I suppose I could have gone to the police and/or emergency room, but that would be foolish, because the sex was great, and I wanted more, not less.
> 
> Maybe you are imagining it in the worst way possible; ie. the husband holding her down, twisting her thigh and laughing maniacally as he watches her suffer. But I don't picture it happening that way, unless the OP gives us more information.


The phone cord incident was not during sex. He used attempted strangulation by phone cord to try to control her behavior. 

She did not say that the leg pinching/bruising incident was during sex. I don't think it was. But until she clarified we don't know.

I've been bruised, scratched, etc. and even done these things during sex. I happen to like rough sex.. not rape fantasies. There’s a difference.

There is a lot of difference between some rough housing and someone purposely pinching/twisting to hurt their spouse.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I couldn't have sex with a man who actually got off watching scenes of rape and incest, and the sooner the better you get away from him, OP. It already sounds like he's trying to re-enact some of what he's viewing, and I wouldn't wait around for a repeat performance with the telephone cord!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Gruff said:


> I have also known several men who did not watch porn, and it was entirely plausible because neither owned a computer. So this idea that 100% are doing it is more piffle.


Ummm - you do realize that porn predates the invention of the computer, right? In fact, one of the oldest artifacts we have from the mists of time is a figurine of a naked woman.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Ummm - you do realize that porn predates the invention of the computer, right? In fact, one of the oldest artifacts we have from the mists of time is a figurine of a naked woman.


It's also funny how some women look at adult videos as porn, yet they will read books like "50 Shades of Grey" or magazines like Cosmopolitan yet think these things are not pornographic as well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Theseus said:


> I think it has a lot to do with it. The OP didn't consider the issue to be serious enough to leave him or press charges at that time. Only when she saw the porn did she decide to leave him. So I don't think the incident is very germane to her concerns at the moment.


I think it's more that after 20 some years of the chit piling up, this rape porn thing is the straw that broke the camel's back. She’s given him pass after pass and he just keeps lying, hurting her, and ‘extracurricular-ing” all over the place, etc. Her chit meter is maxed out.

It’s like they say, when a person starts to complain that their spouse leaves the lid off the tooth paste, the marriage is over.

What are the “extracurricular activities". Cheating on her?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> *The New Testament gives adultery as the sole justification for divorce.* There are other remedies available for marriages in trouble, such as hers. *But the New Testament does not lend support for divorce in those cases.*


I disagree but rather than get into it here, I'll just give a link to David Instone-Brewer, biblical scholar whose book is used in many seminaries to train pastors.

Divorce & Remarriage - Scripture in Context


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Theseus said:


> It's also funny how some women look at adult videos as porn, yet they will read books like "50 Shades of Grey" or magazines like Cosmopolitan yet think these things are not pornographic as well.


And, not every woman reads that trash either... including some who are posting against porn.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> And, not every woman reads that trash either... including some who are posting against porn.


Personally, here's what I find curious. Using you and your husband as an example, the two of you have decided that porn isn't for you. Fantastic. Live your lives as works best for you. Why, then, does that have to extend to "posting against porn" and a view that, because you don't care for it, it is inevitably damaging to anyone who does enjoy it?

I mean, I don't like country music. I don't like the sound, I find the musical skills lacking, and the lyrical content just doesn't appeal to me. Now, I could draw all kinds of parallels about the "harm" country music does to its listeners, with lyrics of over-drinking, infidelity, etc. After all, the stereotypical country listener is a cheating, alcoholic *******. Or, I could just say, "I don't like country. You do. Enjoy." I'm more likely to do the latter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
> Ummm - you do realize that porn predates the invention of the computer, right? In fact, one of the oldest artifacts we have from the mists of time is a figurine of a naked woman.





> Thesus said: It's also funny how some women look at adult videos as porn, yet they will read books like "50 Shades of Grey" or magazines like Cosmopolitan yet think these things are not pornographic as well.


Just another instance of a someone coming here with serious concerns about the level of porn in their marriage and getting their concerns trivialized/hijacked...

Why the heck can't we focus on the OP's problem, pepes, instead of turning this into yet another pro/anti porn debate?

This woman's husband is getting off on violent porn and has tried to throttle her with a telephone cord...


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## Gruff (Feb 27, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Ummm - you do realize that porn predates the invention of the computer, right? In fact, one of the oldest artifacts we have from the mists of time is a figurine of a naked woman.


UMM I would like to see the academic source that tells us that these 'figurines' were used as visual masturbatory aids, out of interest, and to know that you just didn't pluck that 'fact' out of the air. 

Anyway, with regards to other manifestations of porn, I also know one of them at least didn't have any magazines etc because he owned very little full stop and I saw every item- having helped him to move at one point. I don't know about the other guy though. 

Just so you know, I don't care that people look at porn, not in the slightest. I do however have a problem with the way the op has been attacked in this thread simply for having an unfashionable viewpoint, and the utter hogwash that is being peddled to justify people's own agendas.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Grayson said:


> Personally, here's what I find curious. Using you and your husband as an example, the two of you have decided that porn isn't for you. Fantastic. Live your lives as works best for you. Why, then, does that have to extend to "posting against porn" and a view that, because you don't care for it, it is inevitably damaging to anyone who does enjoy it?
> 
> I mean, I don't like country music. I don't like the sound, I find the musical skills lacking, and the lyrical content just doesn't appeal to me. Now, I could draw all kinds of parallels about the "harm" country music does to its listeners, with lyrics of over-drinking, infidelity, etc. After all, the stereotypical country listener is a cheating, alcoholic *******. Or, I could just say, "I don't like country. You do. Enjoy." I'm more likely to do the latter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you have actually read any of my posts, you would see that I haven't said "no one should ever view it" or the like. I have said "if it works in your marriage, great. it doesn't work in mine". You can go back through as many porn threads as you wish and you will see that I post the same thing... if BOTH are fine with it, great. If one is not, then there is a problem. But that doesn't automatically give ANYONE the right to berate someone who comes here, asking for advice regarding the subject of porn. Maybe the problem IS much more than just porn. But I have a big problem with people telling someone that they need to "suck it up" because "everyone is doing it" and "there's nothing wrong with it". There IS something wrong with it... TO HER. Just because many on here think it's just fine doesn't mean it is for everyone. And it appears, the OP is one who is NOT ok with it. Or maybe just certain genres she is not ok with. Regardless, the point I am trying to make is that it doesn't matter to me if it works in your marriage, or Cletus's (sorry Cletus, just throwing a name out there). So be it. But if SHE has a problem with it in HER marriage, it isn't right to tell her she is wrong NOT to want it in HER marriage. If I am wrong, then she can tell me I am wrong, and I will apologize for it. But no, I certainly don't say no one can ever view it. Many "pro-porn" people can attest to the fact that I have maintained that stance.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Gruff said:


> Just so you know, I don't care that people look at porn, not in the slightest. I do however have a problem with the way the op has been attacked in this thread simply for having an unfashionable viewpoint, and the utter hogwash that is being peddled to justify people's own agendas.


:iagree:


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## vspinkgrl (Dec 4, 2012)

So I presented hubby with something, I asked if there was porn that was found at a friends..on a scale of 1-10...10 being the most appalling what would he apply:

Rape: 6
Incest:14
Midgets pretending to be kids: 25
then he asked: "Wow, do these people have kids??"
He was also disgusted that men who would deem themselves semi-normal are trying to defend this. 


With that being said...

I'm just gonna go with the fact that there's some sick, twisted people in this world who will use any explanation to try to justify their deviant behavior.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Gruff said:


> I do however have a problem with the way the op has been attacked in this thread simply for having an unfashionable viewpoint,



Interestingly, I see it the other way around; that those who think that normal people can still enjoy violent/unusual porn are being attacked for having an unfashionable viewpoint.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Theseus said:


> Interestingly, I see it the other way around; that those who think that normal people can still enjoy violent/unusual porn are being attacked for having an unfashionable viewpoint.


In this thread there really was no reason for people to pipe up and say that they like enjoy violent rape porn. Their like of such porn has nothing to do with the OP's attitude towards it. She's entitled to her view point.

She took the risk of posting here for help on how to leave a marriage that she feels she cannot stay in for many reasons. How is someone calling her a prude in response for asking for help.. well how is attacking her that way helpful at all?


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## DontTakeTheGirl (Dec 5, 2012)

Wow, what a bunch of responses. Man.. look... I'm a guy and I dont necessarily find rape/incest/midgets/dwarfs or chicks with 3 eyes attractive. However, everyone is entitled to what turns them on. 

I'm not opposed to "barely legal" porn, where the participants are 18+ and fantasizing being a little school girl etc. It's not different than your wife asking to role play into some sort of Father/Daughter or Cop/Prisoner, or even Teacher/Student - I'm pretty sure the wife in this role isnt thinking "WOW I wanna get f'd by my dad!" no, she is turned on by being taken control of, and being "abused" by authority.

There isnt anything wrong with people's fantasies as long as they are SAFE and AGREED upon by both parties. 

What I find disgusting though is that when two people in a marriage cannot communicate each others sexual fantasies and desires in fear of their partner judging them and being "creeped" out by them.

The OP has the right to react in any manner she sees fit. However....here's the catch. You cant just judge the guy and think he's a weirdo because he may have some alternative porn interests. The entire point of porn is to take you into a world/fantasy where you can get off in a safe way - Now does this mean you want to go out and rape people and molest children??? Sh*** even midgets.. if you find a chick that's 3 feet tall doing a hand stand while giving oral sex.. well then that's all on you.. more power to you.. doesnt mean you're gonna join the circus and gang bang the freakshows.. 

I think people are just over reacting, but their reactions are appropriate.. it's all how you look at it. I dont think ones porn habits are indicative of their psychological state or behavior.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DontTakeTheGirl said:


> Wow, what a bunch of responses. Man.. look... I'm a guy and I dont necessarily find rape/incest/midgets/dwarfs or chicks with 3 eyes attractive. However, everyone is entitled to what turns them on.
> 
> I'm not opposed to "barely legal" porn, where the participants are 18+ and fantasizing being a little school girl etc. It's not different than your wife asking to role play into some sort of Father/Daughter or Cop/Prisoner, or even Teacher/Student - I'm pretty sure the wife in this role isnt thinking "WOW I wanna get f'd by my dad!" no, she is turned on by being taken control, and being "abused" by authority.
> 
> ...


There is surely a line at which someone's fantasies are something that their partner finds cross a line that they are not willing to cross. Are people not allowed to have any personal boundaries about this in marriage?


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## DontTakeTheGirl (Dec 5, 2012)

Who said she had to indulge him? Say No and move on. But dont be a C U next tuesday. (not you personally..)

It's not about crossing boundaries. This entire discussion turned into a free for all on his psychological state. He likes weird porn (imho it's weird) so what? she doesnt... she wont act out his fantasies, too bad, he lives with it.. continues to watch porn.. rinse. repeat.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

DontTakeTheGirl said:


> Who said she had to indulge him? Say No and move on. But dont be a C U next tuesday. (not you personally..)
> 
> It's not about crossing boundaries. This entire discussion turned into a free for all on his psychological state. He likes weird porn (imho it's weird) so what? she doesnt... she wont act out his fantasies, too bad, he lives with it.. continues to watch porn.. rinse. repeat.


Or... if she doesn't approve of any porn viewing, he has the choice to stop or they split. Some people have that particular boundary. And if that is a deal breaker for someone, no matter how long they have been married, then that is THEIR choice.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> In this thread there really was no reason for people to pipe up and say that they like enjoy violent rape porn.



Actually there was, because the OP as well as several commentors here said they firmly believed that anyone who looks at such porn must want to act on it, and that such people are not safe around children. 




> She took the risk of posting here for help on how to leave a marriage that she feels she cannot stay in for many reasons. How is someone calling her a prude in response for asking for help.. well how is attacking her that way helpful at all?



Then show me a quote, because I didn't see anyone calling her a prude or attacking her.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

THe OP has every right not to like any porn at all.

The OP has a right to say one of her boundaries is that she will not be in a relationship with some who views porn.

The OP is allowed to find violent porn and rape repulsive. 

I find it more disturbing that people think they have a "right" to view women being harmed, and that it's within the scope of normalcy.

the OP's husband agreed not to watch porn and then went behind her back and kept watching it. If it was really a deal breaker to him, and he felt he just had to have violent porn, he could have been brave enough to say so, and had enough grace to let the OP decide is she could in fact live with that.

The Op also says he has been less and less sexual with him, as his porn use obviously increased. That is itself a huge problem.

He is also physically abusive. 

OP I hope you stay away from him, he has many problems, he is abusive and he chooses porn over his wife. You deserve better and I hope you stay safe.


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## DontTakeTheGirl (Dec 5, 2012)

So tell me what gives her the right to tell him how to masturbate? He wants to watch a three legged dog hump a hydrant, then he should be able to. He's not hurting anyone. If he's not breaking the law, then seriously who gives a crap


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DontTakeTheGirl said:


> Who said she had to indulge him? Say No and move on. But dont be a C U next tuesday. (not you personally..)
> 
> It's not about crossing boundaries. This entire discussion turned into a free for all on his psychological state. He likes weird porn (imho it's weird) so what? she doesnt... she wont act out his fantasies, too bad, he lives with it.. continues to watch porn.. rinse. repeat.


I don't think it turned into a discussion of his pshychological state. My posts were about her (and anyone else's) rights not be with someone who uses violent rape porn on an on going basis.

Now there was discussion about him using a telephone cord to strangle her and him hurting/brusing her on purpose. That's a different issue and it's abuse.


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## DontTakeTheGirl (Dec 5, 2012)

The abuse part is a different piece of the puzzle.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Actually there was, because the OP as well as several commentors here said they firmly believed that anyone who looks at such porn must want to act on it, and that such people are not safe around children.


No they could have stated that often men watch porn and don't want to attack women.

However there are studies that show that men who regularly watch violent porn, have less empathy for women. That is alarming.




> Then show me a quote, because I didn't see anyone calling her a prude or attacking her.


On the first page she is called prudish.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DontTakeTheGirl said:


> So tell me what gives her the right to tell him how to masturbate? He wants to watch a three legged dog hump a hydrant, then he should be able to. He's not hurting anyone. If he's not breaking the law, then seriously who gives a crap


She has every right to set her own boundaries. She has every right to tell her husband that she will not stay with him if she uses violent rape porn.

He has ever right to jack off to violent rape porn. But he promissed her that he would not and then did it anyway. He was wrong to lie. He can watch all the violent porn he wants, he just cannot do it if he wants to be married to her.

They both have rights. They can exercise their rights by separating and each doing as they please.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Then show me a quote, because I didn't see anyone calling her a prude or attacking her.





ATC529R said:


> you're being wrong...and you don't even understand it...thats the problem. *maybe if you were less prudish some good could come of this.*. and I am not trying to offend you.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

DontTakeTheGirl said:


> So tell me what gives her the right to tell him how to masturbate? He wants to watch a three legged dog hump a hydrant, then he should be able to. He's not hurting anyone. If he's not breaking the law, then seriously who gives a crap


Actually if you are in a relationship with someone, you should be concerned over what turns them on, and if it crosses your boundaries.

It's my spouses business, if I watch porn and masturbate and then do not want to have sex, because my needs have already been met. The OP mentioned this.

I personally do not wish to be with someone who watches porn, particularly violent porn, and who thinks it's Ok to view or treat women that way. That's a boundary of mine. 

If my spouse doesn't like it, he has the right to move on.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I have re written this post 3 times, and gone off site for 20 minutest to try to regain my composure....I still expect I will get kicked of of TAM....but here go's I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND...

If your mate abuses you and puts you in fear of your life *LEAVE*.....If it was done in a context you in some way condoned....*ACCEPT* it and move on....Get over it in some way or get out, don't leave it to fester and ruin lives as it is doing now.......

Now......For an adult child to go into *MY* computer, find something *SHE* objected to, and not only go public with it to *MY* spiritual leaders, but to go so far as to block the content from *MY* computer is just *SO WRONG ON SO MANY LEVELS*

I am stunned by the* shear naked afrontery*.....*The brazen **presumtuousness* of such an act leaves me speachless.....This is a very HOSTILE action on her part. 

It is as if someone discovered a parents medical records on a computer, and finding that parent had in the past had an abortion, published it to the community....It is nothing less than betrayal...

My advice is to get out *NOW*....There is nothing left at any level in any of these relationships ....Divorce


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> I have re written this post 3 times, and gone off site for 20 minutest to try to regain my composure....I still expect I will get kicked of of TAM....but here go's I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND...
> 
> If your mate abuses you and puts you in fear of your life *LEAVE*.....If it was done in a context you in some way condoned....*ACCEPT* it and move on....Get over it in some way or get out, don't leave it to fester and ruin lives as it is doing now.......
> 
> ...


I disagree, how do you know their relationship with their children.

They could have an open door policy.

They also have a clearly religious family, the daughter was probably raised with certain values, and what she found shocked her and revolted her, this was her father watching violent rape and incest porn. You don't watch that stuff unless it turns you on. 

I would be disturbed if it was my father.

She did with that info the best she probably could.

What transpired since is between his wife and him.

He has lied, continued to watch it, and abused his wife.

I feel so sorry for him.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I disagree, how do you know their relationship with their children.
> 
> They could have an open door policy.
> 
> ...


I think her obligation was to go to her father, not "OUT" him to his spiritual leaders....I can only see it as betrayal, with the OP supporting her in it...

What if she had discovered a relative was GAY....Is her duty to their spiritual leaders or to their family member...

In this case I feel the spiritual leaders are more understanding of him than his family, Perhaps they have a more complete picture of the situation, thus the sympathy...I know he has mine....


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Rape and incest destroys lives. They are amongst the most dehumanizing, brutal acts that can be inflicted on another human being. Anyone who knows someone who has been the victim of such a vile act knows the devastating impact and long lasting effects it has had on their lives...

For a woman and her daughter to learn that her husband / father actually gets off watching and fantasizing about those sort of acts, it is likely to feel like an utter betrayal to them both, and wound them on a very deep level.

I would have to leave a man who indulged himself this way. There would be nothing left...


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Then show me a quote, because I didn't see anyone calling her a prude or attacking her.


Right here:-



> ACT529R: ...you're being wrong...and you don't even understand it...thats the problem. maybe if you were less prudish some good could come of this..


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> I think her obligation was to go to her father, not "OUT" him to his spiritual leaders....I can only see it as betrayal, with the OP supporting her in it...
> 
> What if she had discovered a relative was GAY....Is her duty to their spiritual leaders or to their family member...
> 
> In this case I feel the spiritual leaders are more understanding of him than his family, Perhaps they have a more complete picture of the situation, thus the sympathy...I know he has mine....


They have chosen to live a religious lifestyle. And yes if she found her mother or father to be Gay, then perhaps she would have gone to the religious leader too, and again, if the partner of the gay person, if fooled into believing they were straight should move on. 

Also being Gay is not a choice. watching porn that dehumanises women is a choice.

I don't think a member of the family being gay is the same as someone who seeks out rape and incest porn. 

Personally, if I found something on my fathers computer that I thought was seriously messed up, I may not choose to confront him. My father is not the approachable type. 

Again we do not know the dynamics, maybe they have always been encouraged to seek counsel with religious leaders, by their own parents? Why would it then be wrong to do so with this dilemma? 

If I found rape and incest porn on my SO's computer, I would be gone. That would be a huge betrayal of trust from me. I could not stomach it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> I think her obligation was to go to her father, not "OUT" him to his spiritual leaders....I can only see it as betrayal, with the OP supporting her in it...
> 
> What if she had discovered a relative was GAY....Is her duty to their spiritual leaders or to their family member...
> 
> In this case I feel the spiritual leaders are more understanding of him than his family, Perhaps they have a more complete picture of the situation, thus the sympathy...I know he has mine....


There are some religious people who actually teach their children to do exactly what his daughter did.. to take things to the religious group and to discuss how to handle them. I could be wrong, by my impression is that that this the way this family bought their children up.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There are some religious people who actually teach their children to do exactly what his daughter did.. to take things to the religious group and to discuss how to handle them. I could be wrong, by my impression is that that this the way this family bought their children up.


Please don't take this the wrong way, but Children turning in their parents carries back to the Spanish inquesition, the Salem Witch trials, the SS/Gestapo, the KGB, and Mr Jeffs home brewed version pf LDS.......Much too dark for me


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> I have re written this post 3 times, and gone off site for 20 minutest to try to regain my composure....I still expect I will get kicked of of TAM....but here go's I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND...
> 
> If your mate abuses you and puts you in fear of your life *LEAVE*.....If it was done in a context you in some way condoned....*ACCEPT* it and move on....Get over it in some way or get out, don't leave it to fester and ruin lives as it is doing now.......
> 
> ...


That was the first thing I though too. Here is a wife and CHILD attempting to treat this husband like he's a controllable little boy. You may not agree with his choices, but he's an adult man who can decide for himself what he wants to watch.

If one of my kids ever tried to judge me or tattle on me to a minister, I'd more than likely kick his ass. I'm not going to answer to my kids for something as mundane as watching porn.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> They have chosen to live a religious lifestyle. And yes if she found her mother or father to be Gay, then perhaps she would have gone to the religious leader too, and again, if the partner of the gay person, if fooled into believing they were straight should move on.
> 
> Also being Gay is not a choice. watching porn that dehumanises women is a choice.
> 
> ...


My post was not about the offence, but the betrayal....To expose something personal about an individual is a violation of trust.......


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> That was the first thing I though too. Here is a wife and CHILD attempting to treat this husband like he's a controllable little boy. You may not agree with his choices, but he's an adult man who can decide for himself what he wants to watch.
> 
> If one of my kids ever tried to judge me or tattle on me to a minister, I'd more than likely kick his ass. I'm not going to answer to my kids for something as mundane as watching porn.


Mundane.

I love how many people dismiss porn like that.

If it's so mundane and no issue, you won't mind never watching it again.

Porn is not nothing to many people. And I'm so tired of women having their feelings about porn being belittled and invalidated.

You see no issue with porn. As do many men and some women. We get it. 
Porn has messed sexuality up so much, that people just believe it's their right to use other people and ignore and dismiss the very real feelings and pain of others, in favour of their own sexual enjoyment. 

Personally anything I have to hide from my spouse is a problem.

If I feel I have to hide something why?

If I fear them being upset, are those feelings valid?


If I promise not to do something and continue to lie about it, in fact using it above spending intimate time with my spouse, is this not a valid reason for them to be very upset?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> Rape and incest destroys lives. They are amongst the most dehumanizing, brutal acts that can be inflicted on another human being. Anyone who knows someone who has been the victim of such a vile act knows the devastating impact and long lasting effects it has had on their lives...
> 
> For a woman and her daughter to learn that her husband / father actually gets off watching and fantasizing about those sort of acts, it is likely to feel like an utter betrayal to them both, and wound them on a very deep level.
> 
> I would have to leave a man who indulged himself this way. There would be nothing left...


And yet these subjects have been depicted in literature for centuries, even in the bible....The depiction does not confirm the desire to commit the act, but the betrayal was all too real...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Woodchuck said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but Children turning in their parents carries back to the Spanish inquesition, the Salem Witch trials, the SS/Gestapo, the KGB, and Mr Jeffs home brewed version pf LDS.......Much too dark for me


It's not turning him in. It's her going to them for support. It's what her parents taught her to do.

If the parents did not want her to do this, they should not have taught her to.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> My post was not about the offence, but the betrayal....To expose something personal about an individual is a violation of trust.......


And to use violent porn involving incest and rape is a violation of trust to many too. Far worse then seeking help for it. 

Again how do you know that they have not been seeking religious guidance for issues for their family from the start.

And if there is nothing wrong with viewing rape and incest porn, then there would be no shame it.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> And yet these subjects have been depicted in literature for centuries, even in the bible....The depiction does not confirm the desire to commit the act, but the betrayal was all too real...


So many things have been depicted in literature for centuries. does that make it Ok.

What if you found your wife was turned on by father son rape? She got off imagining your father rape you? And she watched a lot of violent porn about it.

She had also stopped being as intimate with you, because she was turning to her gay rape incest porn instead.

Would you be cool with that?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Mundane.
> 
> I love how many people dismiss porn like that.
> 
> ...


I believe my children have the right and obligation to judge me and "out" me for serious crimes. If I actually raped someone. If I murdered someone. If I burned down someone's house. But watching porn in the privacy of my own home? They're going to judge me while sitting in the comfort of the home I provided to them for watching images on a screen that they don't agree with?

LD, this isn't really about porn. I forget how old you are or if you have kids. But I'm thinking that if you had older kids that you provided for you wouldn't be so accepting of their judgement. For example, what if you were into bondage with your husband and then your kids found out and turned you in to the minister. They may have strong feelings about bondage just like you have strong feelings about porn. Both are legal. But yet these children are going to sit in judgement of you because they don't like what you're doing?

Chuck is right. This is about betrayal.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I am 100% with you on this one LD and as you know I am not anti porn.

Sorry but a man/father that watched something so vile deserves to lose everything, his family and his home. He should be outed to the Church and shamed. 

Violence of any nature is just not acceptable and to get some sort of sexual thrill out of it is unbalanced to say the least.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Holland said:


> I am 100% with you on this one LD and as you know I am not anti porn.
> 
> Sorry but a man/father that watched something so vile deserves to lose everything, his family and his home. He should be outed to the Church and shamed.
> 
> Violence of any nature is just not acceptable and to get some sort of sexual thrill out of it is unbalanced to say the least.


Does that apply to the millions of women who have rape fantasies? Should they all be branded with a scarlet letter or something? Or is it just the men who aren't allowed to fantasize about it?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Does that apply to the millions of women who have rape fantasies? Should they all be branded with a scarlet letter or something? Or is it just the men who aren't allowed to fantasize about it?


I'm afraid guys don't stand a chance in this issue...Looks like they are ready to revoke birth certificates next....


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Porn is not nothing to many people. And I'm so tired of women having their feelings about porn being belittled and invalidated.


And yet, here you are, belittling and invalidating those of us who enjoy porn (and with our spouses too).




> Personally anything I have to hide from my spouse is a problem.
> 
> If I feel I have to hide something why?


It's never good to hide anything, although in this particular case judging by the level that the OP and her daughter freaked out about it and exposed him to his Church, I can at least understand why he chose to hide it.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> No they could have stated that often men watch porn and don't want to attack women.
> 
> However there are studies that show that men who regularly watch violent porn, have less empathy for women. That is alarming.
> 
> ...


Please don't take this as a personal criticism, but people who have a totally negative "activist" position on porn make me less empathetic towards them, male or female....I find close minded and dogmatic attitudes to be repressive.....


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Does that apply to the millions of women who have rape fantasies? Should they all be branded with a scarlet letter or something? Or is it just the men who aren't allowed to fantasize about it?


I question just how many women really do have this fantasy, it always seems that men say that women do. The reality is that rape is a fear most women have, not a fantasy. Millions, really?

Incest porn, well I don't know about your country but here incest is illegal as is rape. A civilised society is built on the moral standards that most people apply to life, if we want our kids to live in a civilised society then violence against women should never been acceptable.

Violence against anyone is not acceptable. We have laws around viewing child pornography and worldwide men are gaoled for this crime. TBH men that view incest or rape porn should be treated the same way as those that view child pornography.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

You know something, I'm really done with this topic.

I find it astonishing that some posters in this thread think that it's in any way OK for a husband to obtain sexual pleasure from watching *explicit* material depicting some of the most criminally violent and dehumanizing acts against another human being, and for his wife to be OK with it.

To me that sort of material is only a few steps away from the most unspeakable of all - child pornography and bestiality.

No wonder the daughter sought the counsel of her minister...


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> You know something, I'm really done with this topic.
> 
> I find it astonishing that some posters in this thread think that it's in any way OK for a husband to obtain sexual pleasure from watching explicit material depicting some of the most criminally violent and dehumanizing acts against another human being, and for his wife to be OK with it.
> 
> ...


It is astonishing, in what sick universe is incest or rape entertainment?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Holland said:


> I question just how many women really do have this fantasy, it always seems that men say that women do. The reality is that rape is a fear most women have, not a fantasy. Millions, really?
> 
> Incest porn, well I don't know about your country but here incest is illegal as is rape. A civilised society is built on the moral standards that most people apply to life, if we want our kids to live in a civilised society then violence against women should never been acceptable.
> 
> Violence against anyone is not acceptable. We have laws around viewing child pornography and worldwide men are gaoled for this crime. TBH men that view incest or rape porn should be treated the same way as those that view child pornography.


Well, we in the colonies are a bit behind the times, and uncouth...Prep school buggery hasn't caught on here yet either....:rofl:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Holland said:


> It is astonishing, in what sick universe is incest or rape entertainment?


The Color Purple (1985) - IMDb

Nominated for 11 Oscars.

You know they're pretending, right?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> Well, we in the colonies are a bit behind the times, and uncouth...Prep school buggery hasn't caught on here yet either....:rofl:


What on earth are you trying to say here? If you are not sure how to have a dialogue then perhaps step back from your laptop.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't support what the husband did or what he was watching. I think the daughter was wrong for exposing him. And I'm not going to be part of the lynch mob coming after him. If that makes it sound like I support rape or incest, well, that's the wrong impression, because I don't.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don't support what the husband did or what he was watching. I think the daughter was wrong for exposing him. And I'm not going to be part of the lynch mob coming after him. If that makes it sound like I support rape or incest, well, that's the wrong impression, because I don't.


Well that is a tricky situation, all the other stuff aside. 

I would hope my kids would come to me if they saw something that was so confronting. We don't know what the home situation is with the OP. Maybe the daughter doesn't have a good relationship with her parents, maybe she does have a good relationship with her Church.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Holland said:


> I question just how many women really do have this fantasy, it always seems that men say that women do. The reality is that rape is a fear most women have, not a fantasy. Millions, really?


*"Rape or near-rape fantasies are surprisingly common"*
Psychology Today

Some women have fantasies of being forced into sex. At first glance, rape fantasies make no sense. Why fantasize about something that in real life would be traumatic, repugnant, and life-threatening?

But on closer examination, such fantasies are not unusual. ... But rape fantasies raise thorny issues. Many women who have them can't shake the feeling that they are abnormal or perverted.

From 1973 through 2008, nine surveys of women's rape fantasies have been published._* They show that about four in 10 women admit having them (31 to 57 percent) with a median frequency of about once a month.*_ Actual prevalence of rape fantasies is probably higher because women may not feel comfortable admitting them.


Rest of the article here:
Women's Rape Fantasies: How Common? What Do They Mean? | Psychology Today


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Let's look at this from another perspective.
> 
> There are a surprising number of women who have rape fantasies. The idea of being taken violently is a huge attraction for them, even if they are personally disgusted or disturbed by the images they self-conjure or the idea of rape for real.
> 
> ...



Eh...

I see your point. Yes, lots of women have violent sexual fantasies that they would never actually want to "live".

And I totally think there are men out there who can indulge in such fantasies and not ever want to "live" them either.

However, my advice for those men would be (ahem) : _Probably best if you don't share that shyte
_

At least, I would have a problem with knowing that...

Men and Women aren't the same...right?

So the woman fantasizes that she's a "victim"...the man's fantasizing that he's a "perpetrator"

Sorry.

They're NOT exact equivalents. One is SCARIER. One is "worse" (fair or not)....like I said...probably best for the average american male to keep that one to himself (and frequently clear his history)...

Estrogen and Testosterone have a hard enough time relating to one another regarding the frequency of basic VANILLA sex...so, I wouldn't expect many women to give "Male-Rapist" fantasies an overly warm reception.

Regarding the OP...well, I'm agnostic, so the bit about "the ministers" kinda creeps me out

You never needed an outside moralizing force to tell you what to do...

Agree with the other poster, this porn knowledge...coupled with the incidences of aggressive behavior towards you is bad news...sounds like you're ready to be done here..and that this break-up is for the best

So...Good Luck


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rape fantacies are not necessarily the same "content" as rape porn. 

“... However, these female fantasies do not necessarily imply that the subject desires to be forced into non-consensual sex in reality – the fantasies often contain romantic images where the woman imagines herself being seduced, and the male that she imagines is desirable.* Most importantly, the woman remains in full control of her fantasy. *The fantasies do not usually involve the woman getting hurt. Conversely, some women who have been sexually victimized in the past report unwanted sexual fantasies, similar to flashbacks of their victimization. They are realistic, and the woman may recall the physical and psychological pain involved”


Rape fantasy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rape porn does not depict a woman in conplete control.. because then it is not rape. It's about men degrading and harming women.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> > LD, this isn't really about porn. I forget how old you are or if you have kids. But I'm thinking that if you had older kids that you provided for you wouldn't be so accepting of their judgement. For example, what if you were into bondage with your husband and then your kids found out and turned you in to the minister. They may have strong feelings about bondage just like you have strong feelings about porn. Both are legal. But yet these children are going to sit in judgement of you because they don't like what you're doing?


I have a 19 YO DD. I have a young son.

I have a lot of of very kinky fantasies. Would class myself as high drive, and am not against a bit of bondage. 

I don't think bondage between two consenting people who are ina sexua;l relationship together is the same as one person lying and hiding their porn use, especially violent rape and incest porn.

MY SO and I negotiate our sexual relationship together, we talk about it a lot, we both do things to level we are comfortable with, and if we are not comfortable we both have vito power. Neither of us lies or hides things nor does things we know the other would not approve of. 

That's just how it works for us. 

He is always saying our sex life is the best and I feel the same. I have a feeling that that's a how a respectful awesome sexual relationship should work. Again that's just me.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Let's look at this from another perspective.
> 
> There are a surprising number of women who have rape fantasies. The idea of being taken violently is a huge attraction for them, even if they are personally disgusted or disturbed by the images they self-conjure or the idea of rape for real.
> 
> ...


A fantasy in your mind, in which you only partake with your spouse in a safe environment where as elegirl said, the woman actually has control, is very different to watching violent porn, where women are depicted as being harmed or are really harmed and incest porn. The porn involves going outside your marriage, in a secretive fashion, and watching and doing something that probably repulses the other. That's not healthy.

If I had a rape fantasy I would share it with my SO and if my SO didn't want to participate, was repelled by the idea, then that would be that. I wouldn't go behind his back and use rape porn or incest porn to get off on something that turned him off and repelled him. I want him to trust me and be attracted to me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I have a 19 YO DD. I have a young son.
> 
> I have a lot of of very kinky fantasies. Would class myself as high drive, and am not against a bit of bondage.
> 
> ...


I agree that you have an awesome sex life that respects your personal boundaries. But the question was, what if your 19 year old daughter caught you doing some of the kinky stuff you like to do, freaked out and went on a moral crusade against you. Outing you to your pastor, grouping with like minded people and cornering you, confronting you in your own home? For me, that wouldn't be ok. I would not be ok with my kid disrespecting me in that way.

That doesn't mean I agree with rape or incest.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Rape fantacies are not necessarily the same "content" as rape porn. ... Most importantly, the woman remains in full control of her fantasy.....
> 
> Rape porn does not depict a woman in conplete control.. because then it is not rape. It's about men degrading and harming women.



You are really clutching at straws to try to create a distinction where none exists. Rape porn is simply someone's rape fantasy put into a media form (such as a book or a video) for others to enjoy. So there really isn't a difference. 

Sure, rape porn doesn't depict a woman in control (because then it wouldn't be rape). But in a woman's fantasy, she isn't in control either. That's part of the fantasy!!! It wouldn't be a rape fantasy otherwise.

Now, yes of course, if it's her fantasy, then she's in control in a very general sense, because she can stop the fantasy at any moment. But rape porn is EXACTLY the same. You can stop watching it at any moment by stopping the video or turning off the computer/TV. Moreover, the people in the video are actors who consented to playing their roles in the first place.

BTW, have you, or anyone else here actually seen rape porn? It's certainly not all the same. There are very different kinds, ranging from the realistic/violent, to the much more romantic and coercive, where no one appears to be harmed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I agree that you have an awesome sex life that respects your personal boundaries. But the question was, what if your 19 year old daughter caught you doing some of the kinky stuff you like to do, freaked out and went on a moral crusade against you. Outing you to your pastor, grouping with like minded people and cornering you, confronting you in your own home? For me, that wouldn't be ok. I would not be ok with my kid disrespecting me in that way.
> 
> That doesn't mean I agree with rape or incest.


My children, if upset at something I did, would not go to a pastor because that's not what they were taught. I suspect that they would seek out someone they trusted to discuss it with. I have always encouraged them to seek out input for things that bother them. 

Apparenlty the OP's family does this in their church. The children were taught to do this. That's what I got from the OP's post. If parents teach their children to go to the members of the church for counsel then the parent cannot complain when the adult child does what she's been taught.

There are people who do this. They are very entwinded with their church and the church commuity.

The daughter was 21. She's young. Where she 35 she might have handled it differently. 

The way she was raised by both her mother and father and her age have a lot to do with how she handled this. I'm not going to crusify a 21 year old girl who reacted in shock after stumbling on rape porn.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I agree that you have an awesome sex life that respects your personal boundaries. But the question was, what if your 19 year old daughter caught you doing some of the kinky stuff you like to do, freaked out and went on a moral crusade against you. Outing you to your pastor, grouping with like minded people and cornering you, confronting you in your own home? For me, that wouldn't be ok. I would not be ok with my kid disrespecting me in that way.
> 
> That doesn't mean I agree with rape or incest.


My daughter has a right to feel however she does especially about morals and values. I think my daughter would come to me if she was disturbed by something. However she was not raised in a church environment and encouraged to go to spiritual leaders with her problems. If she had been and did, then good on her for not dealing with it alone.

So what exactly are you saying, that even though the wife did not condone the use of such porn and was horrified, that she should put her feelings aside, because her husband was outed by her daughter? Something she herself had no control over. :scratchhead:

Weird. The man was not doing this because of the daughter. So it has no baring on the violence or how his wife feels about the porn and violence. 

I can't even believe any one would turn a thread about a violent man who betrayed his wifes trust by continuing to view violent rape and incest porn after he promised not to. Into a poor him thread.

He's not even posting here, she is. If he's upset about his daughter exposing him, then the poor abusive violent, rape incest porn loving man can come start his own thread, and get his sympathy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Theseus said:


> You are really clutching at straws to try to create a distinction where none exists. Rape porn is simply someone's rape fantasy put into a media form (such as a book or a video) for others to enjoy. So there really isn't a difference.
> 
> Sure, rape porn doesn't depict a woman in control (because then it wouldn't be rape). But in a woman's fantasy, she isn't in control either. That's part of the fantasy!!! It wouldn't be a rape fantasy otherwise.
> 
> ...


Yes I've seen rape porn. Obviously there are different levels of violence, force, etc depicted in rape porn. Since the OP was made to feel uncomformatable and I doubt she will be back, we won't get clarification on the type of rape porn. She did use the word violent I believe so we might be able to assume that it was not 'vanilla' rape.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Well, I've said my peace. LittleDeer, I promise you that if there is ever an angry lynch mob coming after you because you looked at something forbidden I will be in your corner. No matter what the mob says.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Theseus said:


> You are really clutching at straws to try to create a distinction where none exists. Rape porn is simply someone's rape fantasy put into a media form (such as a book or a video) for others to enjoy. So there really isn't a difference.


There is a big difference in imagining violence and viewing it. HUGE.




> Sure, rape porn doesn't depict a woman in control (because then it wouldn't be rape). But in a woman's fantasy, she isn't in control either. That's part of the fantasy!!! It wouldn't be a rape fantasy otherwise.


Yes she's in control of her fantasy. It's very different, have you been raped??



> Now, yes of course, if it's her fantasy, then she's in control in a very general sense, because she can stop the fantasy at any moment. But rape porn is EXACTLY the same. You can stop watching it at any moment by stopping the video or turning off the computer/TV. Moreover, the people in the video are actors who consented to playing their roles in the first place.


Not all rape porn is paid actors, some of it is real. Also many traficked women end up in porn (the stats have been provided on this site before), so yes it could very well be a sex slave or an underage girl (which occurs all to often in the unregulated porn industry). 
Not to mention watching violence does help ensure people have less empathy. 
Studies done on men and women show that if they watch violent porn they are less likely to empathise with women, victims of sexual assault and more likely to believe rape is a myth. 
Porn uses real women and men, literature does not. 



> BTW, have you, or anyone else here actually seen rape porn? It's certainly not all the same. There are very different kinds, ranging from the realistic/violent, to the much more romantic and coercive, where no one appears to be harmed.


The wife said Violent. I think we should take her at her word. And rape is rape, no one appears to be harmed in some. yay, tell that to every woman who wasn't "Violently" raped.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Well, I've said my peace. LittleDeer, I promise you that if there is ever an angry lynch mob coming after you because you looked at something forbidden I will be in your corner. No matter what the mob says.


I have seen plenty of forbidden things. 

I certainly hope my family would point out why many of them are harmful, and I hope my SO would be horrified if I regularly used such things.


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## Jane101 (Mar 4, 2013)

It seems you have no idea how a mans mind works.

All this is in his mind, who was it that said he who is without sin cast the first stone ?

Everybody has thoughts that they would not like others to know.

That is what it is a thought.

You have broken the trust you have with your husband by going behind his back.

I am not going to go on and on but I would say it's you who needs to say sorry to him and ask that he forgives you.

'Theres a saying people who play together stay together'


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Jane101 said:


> It seems you have no idea how a mans mind works.
> 
> All this is in his mind, who was it that said he who is without sin cast the first stone ?
> 
> ...


Seriously? Her H kept on viewing the rape porn behind her back after she asked him not too. If she's not comfortable with it then she doesn't have to accept it.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Just my opinion but for a daughter to turn her father in so fast makes me believe something is wrong there. Maybe the OP wasn't the only person who he physically attacked. Maybe not sexually but she may have experienced his dark side. 
Also I think the porn is just the straw that broke the camels back for this woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> My post was not about the offence, but the betrayal....To expose something personal about an individual is a violation of trust.......


I would think she would have gone to her mom, tbh. I can't see a 21 year old woman going to the person who has been watching that stuff and asking "wth is the deal?", ya know? HOWEVER, OP did say at some point in the thread (can't remember where exactly it came out), that she was actually afraid of her husband and that there was more to this than "just" porn. He has violent tendencies, outside the porn. Yes, I know, if it was that bad, she should have left, right? How many people do you know who leave an abusive relationship immediately after it starts? More often than not, they tolerate more and more because they begin to believe they deserve to be treated like that and/or they just lack the courage to stand up for themselves. What is the OP's situation? I really couldn't tell you. But (and I'm not saying this IS the situation), perhaps the daughter knew that going to her mom wouldn't have done a damn thing to change her dad's behavior (not just porn). It's not impossible that the daughter may have known that going to the ministers, no matter how right or wrong it is, was the only way to get her mother to grow a backbone regarding the things her husband has done (again, not just porn). I'm not there. None of us is there. We can all say "I wouldn't put up with my child ...." or "I would never let my wife tell me what to do...." Again, we really don't know unless we are in that exact situation. 

So many are saying she's wrong...she needs to just let him watch that stuff if he wants to...she needs to just let it all go, etc. Actually, no she doesn't. If this is one of her deal breakers, then that's her choice. Period.

But, I suspect we won't see her back to clarify things.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Jane101 said:


> It seems you have no idea how a mans mind works.
> 
> All this is in his mind, who was it that said he who is without sin cast the first stone ?
> 
> ...


My fiance knows that I don't want porn in this house or in our relationship. I see it as a betrayal and that it detracts from a marriage. He has boundaries too and we have both gone forward with a serious relationship, knowing these boundaries. 

I find rape porn and incest porn abhorrent. 

If my fiance starts to watch it, hides it, and starts physically abusing me. Should I be blamed because he refused to respect our relationship boundaries? Should I start watching something that makes me physically ill, and makes me sick at the thought of my fiance watching it?


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> There is a big difference in imagining violence and viewing it. HUGE.
> 
> Porn uses real women and men, literature does not.



Then I guess that's a point on which some of us will just have to agree to disagree. Maybe it's because men are more visually oriented to sex - I don't know - but I just don't see how using actors on video is an important distinction at all.

Either way, it's not like you are really there. You are not participating in the situation. For example few people would claim that watching porn is the same thing as adultery (although I'm sure there are few extremists who claim that).

Of course, I would be totally against it if this was a video where the actors were forced to perform, but I would also be opposed to that kind of porn even if it depicted very tame, totally non-violent sex.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Blonde said:


> I disagree but rather than get into it here, I'll just give a link to David Instone-Brewer, biblical scholar whose book is used in many seminaries to train pastors.
> 
> Divorce & Remarriage - Scripture in Context


I'm familiar with Instone-Brewer's work, as well as similar work done by others to expand the Biblical justification for divorce to pretty much anything. I'll say that the work is dubious at best. The "scholars" are inferring that, when Jesus said that divorce is justifiable only for adultery, that he didn't really mean what he said. I'll also add that there is a lot of money to be made peddling justification for frivolous divorce.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

*LittleDeer* said:


> If I had a rape fantasy I would share it with my SO and if my SO didn't want to participate, was repelled by the idea, then that would be that. I wouldn't go behind his back and use rape porn or incest porn to get off on something that turned him off and repelled him. I want him to trust me and be attracted to me.


What if you knew that your SO would immediately divorce you, take your children and move to another state, and tell everyone you knew about your deviant desires. Would you still share you deepest desires and fantasies?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

This has nothing to do with porn.

The OP's husband is abusive (So he likes violent porn) that's what this is about.

You need to leave your husband, learn to avoid his abusive traits in other men, and learn to keep church leaders out of your marital bed.

You should be ok then.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> My children, if upset at something I did, would not go to a pastor because that's not what they were taught. I suspect that they would seek out someone they trusted to discuss it with. I have always encouraged them to seek out input for things that bother them.
> 
> Apparenlty the OP's family does this in their church. The children were taught to do this. That's what I got from the OP's post. If parents teach their children to go to the members of the church for counsel then the parent cannot complain when the adult child does what she's been taught.


We don't know what the OP's daughter was taught. We know that the OP's husband was angry with his daughter at going to the Ministers and thought she should have come to her parents first. And the OP said that she understood that point of view. So perhaps they taught their daughter to handle family business in private. But, the OP said that she ultimately thought outing her husband publicly was correct. So, perhaps they taught her to handle family business in public. Perhaps each parent taught his own preference and the daughter was left to decide. Perhaps they never taught her anything on the topic.



EleGirl said:


> The daughter was 21. She's young. Where she 35 she might have handled it differently.


Sure. That doesn't mean she handled it correctly.

If the OP's daughter was much younger, then I would forgive it. It would still be wrong. But I could understand it. At 21, her daughter has every legal privilege of being an adult. I suppose she couldn't run for Congress, but drinking, smoking, marrying, voting, and entering into contracts are all available to her. A person that age, with those responsibilities, should have a modicum of decorum and forethought before tattling to the Ministers when she busted her dad.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Theseus said:


> Of course, I would be totally against it if this was a video where the actors were forced to perform, but I would also be opposed to that kind of porn even if it depicted very tame, totally non-violent sex.


I think I can join with Theseus and actually speak for everyone in the thread and say that we are unequivocally against slave labor, whether it is used in filming pornography, making clothing, selling drugs, spreading pine straw, or anything else.

I would say something else about reading versus watching, but some rationalization hamsters are just too powerful.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I think I can join with Theseus and actually speak for everyone in the thread and say that we are unequivocally against slave labor, whether it is used in filming pornography, making clothing, selling drugs, spreading pine straw, or anything else.
> 
> I would say something else about reading versus watching, but some rationalization hamsters are just too powerful.


hey now......don't speak for me until I have a price on said slave labor


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## DontTakeTheGirl (Dec 5, 2012)

ridiculous


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> If I had a rape fantasy I would share it with my SO and if my SO didn't want to participate, was repelled by the idea, then that would be that. I wouldn't go behind his back and use rape porn or incest porn to get off on something that turned him off and repelled him. I want him to trust me and be attracted to me.


Were I into rape or incest pornography, I wouldn't tell my wife in a million years, for a multitude of reasons, some of which are playing out right here on this thread.

You cannot project your sexual relationship on anyone else, with the implication that your way is somehow superior. The stuff we're talking about here is pretty dark and still frowned upon, probably correctly in my humble opinion, by society in general. To own up to this kind of sexual interest is to put yourself up for a lot of potential blowback. In fact, it might put an end to your marriage.

Oh, and bondage of any kind, light or not? I find it degrading in the extreme.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Studies done on men and women show that if they watch violent porn they are less likely to empathise with women, victims of sexual assault and more likely to believe rape is a myth.


I'm not sold. Look at real world numbers. Since 1993, when access to internet pornography has become nearly ubiquitous, rape and sexual assault incidents have plummeted. Between 1993 and 2007, rape was down 72% and sexual assault was down 68%. A Clemson economist examined individual states and found that a 10% increase in internet usage correlated to a 7.3% reduction in rape cases.

And all this is happening when rape and sexual assault are probably being reported more often than ever before.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I think I can join with Theseus and actually speak for everyone in the thread and say that we are unequivocally against slave labor, whether it is used in filming pornography, making clothing, selling drugs, spreading pine straw, or anything else.
> 
> I would say something else about reading versus watching, but some rationalization hamsters are just too powerful.


So you just stick your head in the sand, and pretend that the women participating in rape porn are choosing to do so because it's so much fun and they are paid so well for it. And that enjoying the videos is just a harmless fantasy because watching isn't the same as doing.

Nice rationalizations, but it's not harmless. Anyone who is titillated by rape harbors some hatred of women, whether they will admit to it or not. I have seen this throughout this thread, with the most staunch defenders being the ones who most clearly hate women.

Comparing it to Silence of the Lambs or the Color Purple is just ridiculous. There's a huge difference between the exploration of a theme and the glorification/sexualization of it. No one masturbated to either of those movies, and if they did, it would say a lot about how disturbed they were.

Comparing it to women's rape fantasies is also unreasonable. Rape porn is by men and for men, and in no way addresses women's fantasy lives. It's very tiring to always have one's sexuality defined by some guy who actually knows nothing about it.

And defending an attempted strangulation because it 'only happened once'? Really? How much does one have to hate women to even think that thought?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> I'm familiar with Instone-Brewer's work, as well as similar work done by others to expand the Biblical justification for divorce to pretty much anything. I'll say that the work is dubious at best. The "scholars" are inferring that, when Jesus said that divorce is justifiable only for adultery, that he didn't really mean what he said. I'll also add that there is a lot of money to be made peddling justification for frivolous divorce.


For the OP, if things like the above confuse you and make you doubt that* God insists that you leave *an abusive man who claims to be a "christian brother" and gets off sexually on women being violated, here are some verses for you:

“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors , heady, highminded, *lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God*; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: *from such turn away*.” 2 Tim 3:1-5​
Read the rest of it. It talks about "weak willed" women who allow such men to "worm their way" into their home and "gain control". These women are called "gullible". I used to be a "weak willed" "gullible" woman, OP, until I renounced the Sapphira Spirit.

11 But now I am writing to you that *you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother *or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. *Do not even eat with such people.*​
God *INSISTS!*

Personally, I think there is a HUGE difference between your average worldly man out there and a man who professes to follow Christ and engages in activities like OP's husband. A Christian husband has a HUGE impact upon his wife and children, a great deal of power, to nourish and cherish OR to drag them into hell on earth with him. 

A worldly husband does not have the power to UNsanctify a Christian wife but a CHRISTIAN husband does (I Cor 7), hence God *INSISTS* that you not have anything to do with him as long as he is engaging in such activities unrepentantly.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> They also have a clearly religious family, the daughter was probably raised with certain values, and what she found shocked her and revolted her, this was her father watching violent rape and incest porn. You don't watch that stuff unless it turns you on.
> 
> I would be disturbed if it was my father.
> 
> She did with that info the best she probably could.


ITA! Even a 21 yo can be deeply wounded by her daddy.

If there is a "HELL" the darkest spot in it is reserved for hypocrites who preach one thing and practice another:


17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. *Blackest darkness is reserved for them. *18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”​


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

always_alone said:


> So you just stick your head in the sand, and pretend that the women participating in rape porn are choosing to do so because it's so much fun and they are paid so well for it.


Pornography is a multi-billion dollar a year industry. The larger companies in the industry have estimated profits over $50 million per year. If those companies used slave labor, there is no shortage of crusading trial lawyers that would be happy to shut the companies down and transfer ownership to themselves and their clients. If you think otherwise, you are naive.

I will grant that there may be some element of underground pornography that uses slavery, or even films crimes such as actual rape or snuff films. But nobody here is talking about that. To impugn regulated pornography produced by legitimate corporations for the actions of a criminal underground is no different than using an illegal sweatshop as justification that nobody should buy clothes in a retail shop.



always_alone said:


> And that enjoying the videos is just a harmless fantasy because watching isn't the same as doing.


You're arguing that watching IS the same as doing? I'll just say that I disagree.



always_alone said:


> Nice rationalizations, but it's not harmless. Anyone who is titillated by rape harbors some hatred of women, whether they will admit to it or not. I have seen this throughout this thread, with the most staunch defenders being the ones who most clearly hate women.


Good God. Anyone who claims to understand the inner thoughts of another person, as well as the passions and hatreds of said person is either an idiot, a liar, or both.



always_alone said:


> Comparing it to Silence of the Lambs or the Color Purple is just ridiculous. There's a huge difference between the exploration of a theme and the glorification/sexualization of it. No one masturbated to either of those movies, and if they did, it would say a lot about how disturbed they were.


It's the masturbatory effect again? If I watch pornography, but don't masturbate to it, does that elevate the pornography to a "legitimate" form of entertainment in your eyes?



always_alone said:


> Comparing it to women's rape fantasies is also unreasonable. Rape porn is by men and for men, and in no way addresses women's fantasy lives. It's very tiring to always have one's sexuality defined by some guy who actually knows nothing about it.


Why should a product by men, for men, have to cater to the objections of women? Romance novels are by women, for women. And they often deal with rape. Are they exempt? Should men require romance novel authors to change their products because they give unrealistic portrayals of men as suave, billionaire pirates? I mean, that hurts my feelings. I can never be as rich, as good looking, or as cool as a romance novel hero. Yet millions of women read this chick porn with absolutely no regard for me, as a person.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Well I deeply sympathize with the OP. Based on the conduct of her adult daughter, the mention of ministers plural and a few other things she said, I'm pretty sure I understand what type of denomination she's dealing with if not the exact denomination itself.

I could be wrong, but I don't think she's going to get the support she needs from them.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Blonde said:


> ... *God insists that you leave *an abusive man ...


That is simply heresy. The New Testament allows for divorce in cases of adultery. Paul even expands upon the justification for cases of a believer being abandoned by an unbeliever. But nowhere in the New Testament does it insist that divorce must happen under any circumstance. In fact, Jesus even taught that divorce shouldn't happen, even in cases of adultery. But, because of the hardness of the human heart, it was allowed.

Now, I have acknowledged that the Church is no longer responsible, in the Western world, for regulating marriage. The state has taken over and allows divorce in almost all scenarios. And the New Testament does preach God's forgiveness. So, the most charitable interpretation in favor of expanded allowances for divorce is that people can divorce with no Biblical justification, ask forgiveness, and it will be granted.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> To impugn regulated pornography produced by legitimate corporations for the actions of a criminal underground is no different than using an illegal sweatshop as justification that nobody should buy clothes in a retail shop.


Who is the naive one?  Not me, at least not in this case.



PHTlump said:


> Good God. Anyone who claims to understand the inner thoughts of another person, as well as the passions and hatreds of said person is either an idiot, a liar, or both.


I don't have to understand anyone's inner thoughts to see the hatred of women oozing all over this (and other) threads.



PHTlump said:


> Should men require romance novel authors to change their products because they give unrealistic portrayals of men as suave, billionaire pirates? I mean, that hurts my feelings. I can never be as rich, as good looking, or as cool as a romance novel hero.


Disingenuous claptrap that purposely dodges all of the real issues.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

always_alone said:


> Who is the naive one? Not me, at least not in this case.


You're saying that, because some tiny fraction of illegal pornography is produced under coercion, that all pornography is the result of involuntary labor? And you're also calling me naive? The fact that you can even make that argument without a glimmer of self-awareness is damned impressive.



always_alone said:


> I don't have to understand anyone's inner thoughts to see the hatred of women oozing all over this (and other) threads.


Again, you claim knowledge of another's thoughts without claiming the need for said knowledge. Wow.



always_alone said:


> Disingenuous claptrap that purposely dodges all of the real issues.


Not at all. You've converted me to your "way of thinking." Women read romance novels because they get turned on. Obviously, muscular, billionaire pirate-captains turn women on. That's what they want. Millions of women will soon start abandoning their Joe Sixpack husbands in search of these pirate-captain billionaires. We all know that fantasies don't just remain fantasies. They spur people to act. Because of their lack of free will, these women will be forced to divorce their husbands and seek out these nonexistent pirate captains. And that will hurt men. It will hurt children when their homes are broken by women involuntarily divorcing their husbands.

Of course, the entire romance novel industry is driven by misandrist, feminist lesbians for the sole purpose of destroying the nuclear family. And they are now poised to succeed. Please allow me to join your crusade against sexual fantasy in entertainment! :smthumbup:


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> You're saying that, because some tiny fraction of illegal pornography is produced under coercion, that all pornography is the result of involuntary labor?


No,I'm not. I'm calling you naive because you clearly have absolutely no idea how the porn industry works.



PHTlump said:


> Again, you claim knowledge of another's thoughts without claiming the need for said knowledge. Wow.


It is not what they are thinking that gives me knowledge; it is what they say. Anyone who thinks that it is okay to degrade, humiliate, overpower and harm women does not like women very much. It really is that simple.



PHTlump said:


> Not at all. You've converted me to your "way of thinking." Women read romance novels because they get turned on. Obviously, muscular, billionaire pirate-captains turn women on. That's what they want. Millions of women will soon start abandoning their Joe Sixpack husbands in search of these pirate-captain billionaires. We all know that fantasies don't just remain fantasies. They spur people to act. Because of their lack of free will, these women will be forced to divorce their husbands and seek out these nonexistent pirate captains. And that will hurt men. It will hurt children when their homes are broken by women involuntarily divorcing their husbands.


More disingenuous claptrap that proves that you have no idea what the issues even are.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Doneworking, are you still around? You could try posting a new thread and seeking advice. Your thread is very long with very few posts from you. I hope you come back.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> That is simply heresy.


Take it up with the author:

2 Tim 3: But understand this, that in the last days will come (set in) perilous times of great stress and trouble [hard to deal with and hard to bear].
2 For people will be lovers of self and [utterly] self-centered, lovers of money and aroused by an inordinate [greedy] desire for wealth, proud and arrogant and contemptuous boasters. They will be abusive (blasphemous, scoffing), disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy and profane.
3 [They will be] without natural [human] affection (callous and inhuman), relentless (admitting of no truce or appeasement); [they will be] slanderers (false accusers, troublemakers), intemperate and loose in morals and conduct, uncontrolled and fierce, haters of good.
4 [They will be] treacherous [betrayers], rash, [and] inflated with self-conceit. [They will be] lovers of sensual pleasures and vain amusements more than and rather than lovers of God.
5 For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. *Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 Cor 5:11 But now I write to you *not to associate *with anyone who bears the name of [Christian] brother if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater [whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of God], or is a person with a foul tongue [railing, abusing, reviling, slandering], or is a drunkard or a swindler or a robber. *[No] you must not so much as eat with such a person.*​


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

always_alone said:


> Anyone who thinks that it is okay to degrade, humiliate, overpower and harm women does not like women very much. It really is that simple.


Not at all. I have always said that harming women is not OK. You can't point to a single post I've ever written claiming otherwise.

In this thread I have done two things that seem to escape your powers of comprehension. First, I have argued that viewing distasteful subject matter doesn't necessarily compel someone to mimic that subject matter. Second, I have made a distinction between actors pretending to do something, and people actually doing something. It's really that simple.



always_alone said:


> More disingenuous claptrap that proves that you have no idea what the issues even are.


Is that any way to treat a convert to your cause?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Blonde said:


> Take it up with the author:


So, you're arguing that, when Jesus said that divorce was acceptable only for adultery, that he was wrong? I disagree.

You've taken two verses that don't address marriage or divorce and interpreted them as commandments to divorce. And you're going directly against the words of Jesus, when he was speaking about divorce. Under your interpretation, something approaching 100% of all Christian marriages MUST end in divorce. Who among us is not guilty of immorality from time to time? You're arguing that our spouses MUST divorce us when we sin? Again, you're going far beyond even the most liberal interpretations of the New Testament.

But I admire your creativity.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

OP,

I have unsubscribed. PM me if you need.

And maybe start a thread elsewhere on the forum? where you won't have to wade through the rationalizations of the violent porn fans defending their habit nor people who claim to speak for God telling you you are trapped in this marriage unless and until he puts PIV of another woman.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Blonde said:


> OP,
> 
> I have unsubscribed. PM me if you need.
> 
> And maybe start a thread elsewhere on the forum? where you won't have to wade through the rationalizations of the violent porn fans defending their habit nor people who claim to speak for God telling you you are trapped in this marriage unless and until he puts PIV of another woman.


And that, folks, is a lesson in applied sanctimony.

Bravo!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Blonde said:


> And maybe start a thread elsewhere on the forum? where you won't have to wade through the rationalizations of the violent porn fans defending their habit nor people who claim to speak for God telling you you are trapped in this marriage unless and until he puts PIV of another woman.


:lol:
You think I'm claiming to be a prophet because I'm taking Jesus at his word? Only one of us is claiming that Jesus was wrong. And it's not me.


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## ATC529R (Oct 31, 2012)

where do I sign up for the He Man Woman Haters Club?


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Jamison said:


> The OP is NOT one of these women though. Period. Also he choked her and bruised her, so its not just about the porn.


:iagree: That is the problem, he seems to enjoy hurting her and she is telling us that she feels he wants to harm her even more. I doubt she is lying, I think she should leave if she fears for her safety. Her husband needs help he may be a great man everywhere else but this obsession with rape porn is not healthy (imo). Big difference between the fantasy and wishing to do it with the wife and actually hurting her. She is AFRAID that is not okay,


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm so glad I live in a world where people justify and rally around a man's right to watch violent degrading porn about incest and rape, and they are more concerned about his feelings about his sexuality, then his wife's right to safety.

If I have fantasies that are disturbing and upsetting to my spouse I don't think I have a right to push forward with those fantasies and watch porn about it, in spite of how my spouse feels. 

But to some masturbation material trumps everything. And it's Ok to fantasise about whatever you want, because if it gives you a boner, it should be protected at all costs. 

Never under any circumstance think about how your actions harm others, just protect your "right" to porn, at all costs. Also make sure to never mention that people can change their sexual fanatasies. We never want have to do that. 

Ugh.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Were I into rape or incest pornography, I wouldn't tell my wife in a million years, for a multitude of reasons, some of which are playing out right here on this thread.


I personally feel I can share anything with my SO, however I'm also not afraid that he won't like something and won't want me to do it. he's a reasonable person, if he was against something, it would be for a good reason. 



> You cannot project your sexual relationship on anyone else, with the implication that your way is somehow superior. The stuff we're talking about here is pretty dark and still frowned upon, probably correctly in my humble opinion, by society in general. To own up to this kind of sexual interest is to put yourself up for a lot of potential blowback. In fact, it might put an end to your marriage.


Well if it's so bad it might put and end to your marriage it must be pretty harmful. So STOP doing it. Simple.



> Oh, and bondage of any kind, light or not? I find it degrading in the extreme.


And that's a great boundary to have. 
But bondage porn and secret fantasies are OK right?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

You may have the last official word. I recognize a fruitless pursuit when I see one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I'm so glad I live in a world where people justify and rally around a man's right to watch violent degrading porn about incest and rape, and they are more concerned about his feelings about his sexuality, then his wife's right to safety.


I am happy that I live in a world where histrionic, puritanical women screech about the thoughtcrimes of men. Where these women actually hold the irrational belief that a man's innermost thoughts can somehow take form and harm women. No, we must eradicate this thoughtcrime. There should be a list of acceptable sex acts to practice and fantasize about. There should be a list of acceptable movies to watch (no controversial subject matter). There should be a list of acceptable books to read. Everything that deviates from the list must be expunged.

Like cletus, I am out. I just get tired of trying to convince people that magical thinking isn't based in reality. That Nightmare on Elm Street was just a movie. Dreams and thoughts can't really hurt you. Nevermind. I'm a convert. If just one women *feels* like pornography is bad, well it must be.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I am happy that I live in a world where histrionic, puritanical women screech about the thoughtcrimes of men. Where these women actually hold the irrational belief that a man's innermost thoughts can somehow take form and harm women. No, we must eradicate this thoughtcrime.


Except in the case of the OP, the man *is* harming the woman. Those thoughts *did* translate into action. But you are too busy protecting your right to fantasize about raping women that you don't care about this inconvenient detail.



PHTlump said:


> Like cletus, I am out. I just get tired of trying to convince people that magical thinking isn't based in reality. That Nightmare on Elm Street was just a movie.


Yes, please stop. The only magical thinking going on here is the pretense that spending hours of one's day fantasizing about raping women has no connection whatsoever on one's attitudes or behaviours towards women. A movie may just be movie, and we can all congratulate ourselves on our skills at distinguishing fiction from reality, or argue til the cows come home that the movie didn't *cause* the behaviour. But, frankly, if a person is actively seeking someone else's humiliation and pain for the express purpose of getting off, there is definitely a large red flag waving.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

always_alone said:


> So you just stick your head in the sand, and pretend that the women participating in rape porn are choosing to do so because it's so much fun and they are paid so well for it.


99% of everyone who works does so for the money, not because it's "fun". 




> Nice rationalizations, but it's not harmless. Anyone who is titillated by rape harbors some hatred of women, whether they will admit to it or not.



I already showed you with a link to several studies, that from 30%-40% of women fantasize about rape. Do they all hate women?

BTW, I should point out that not all rape porn is men raping women. There are also men raping men, women raping women, and women raping men. Remember, it's not supposed to necessarily be realistic, it's about fantasy. 




> Comparing it to women's rape fantasies is also unreasonable. Rape porn is by men and for men, and in no way addresses women's fantasy lives.



My wife and I enjoy watching it together (although it's not a regular thing!), and since she's basically the head of our household, and we have two daughters we love very much, I just don't think we qualify as people who "hate women". 

Now, having said all that, I will cut you a little slack and say that I would be worried if someone was obsessed with rape and/or incest porn and looked at nothing but. However, given the OP's attitude toward it, it's difficult to tell if this was a casual habit or he was truly addicted to it.




> And defending an attempted strangulation because it 'only happened once'? Really? How much does one have to hate women to even think that thought?



Who has defended strangulation in this thread?


Always Alone, it's a good rule of thumb to try to assume good faith of the people you are responding to, and not go out of your way to assign sinister motives to them. It makes for a much more productive discussion and less flame wars.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I'm so glad I live in a world where people justify and rally around a man's right to watch violent degrading porn about incest and rape, and they are more concerned about his feelings about his sexuality, then his wife's right to safety.


That's not a reasonable statement. No one has dismissed her right to safety. 




> But to some masturbation material trumps everything. And it's Ok to fantasise about whatever you want, because if it gives you a boner, it should be protected at all costs.
> 
> Never under any circumstance think about how your actions harm others, just protect your "right" to porn, at all costs.


I'm confused how my "boner" or the porn I watch could hurt anyone else. It certainly hasn't hurt anyone else yet. You sound an awful lot like the people who say that gay marriage harms other people's marriages.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Who has defended strangulation in this thread?


Actually, Theseus, I think always_alone was referring to one of your own previous posts. But I THINK OP answered the "why" of her staying then...can't remember if it was before or after you posted. But the gist of it was that she was too scared to speak up then, but NOW she has the backbone. FWIW, I do agree that she SHOULD have left long ago and reported the incident when family services came to her.



Theseus said:


> BTW, bruising your thigh is actually pretty common during sex, so I'm going to ignore that one unless you can expand on it. As far as the phone cord incident goes, something is a little off. You just said he put the cord around your neck. So did he actually try to choke you or not? If he did, you should have filed charges and left. If he didn't, I don't understand what you would accomplish by going to the emergency room. It's not like hurting your arm, where you're not sure if it's broken or not. With choking, it's pretty plain whether he was trying to kill you or not; there's not much ambiguity there. Moreover, *we have to take the context of apparently this was ONE incident in 27 years, and you didn't leave him at that time, so it seems like an awfully weak excuse to leave him for it now, but it's your choice.*


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Actually, Theseus, I think always_alone was referring to one of your own previous posts.


Maricha, how does my comment in any shape or form equate to "defending strangulation"? That's ridiculous in the extreme!! There's *no* part that defended it in any way whatsoever.

When people make wild accusations like that, all it does is force the discussion to devolve into name-calling. Maybe that's what some of you want, but it's not for me.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Now, having said all that, I will cut you a little slack and say that I would be worried if someone was obsessed with rape and/or incest porn and looked at nothing but. However, given the OP's attitude toward it, it's difficult to tell if this was a casual habit or he was truly addicted to it.


Let's go back to the OP, shall we?
First she recounts her daughter's experience:



doneworking said:


> She told them she checked the history on the computer and was shocked that there were endless pages of websites dedicated to rape and other violent crimes against women.


Then later, she checks up on him herself and finds this.



doneworking said:


> The history only went up to three weeks, but it had endless pages of rape, gang rape, and what disturbed me more, even incest.


Does this really sound casual to you? 

Then, still in that same first post, she describes his actions:



doneworking said:


> I noted his behavior was getting more and more aggressive to me. I honestly thinks he wants to harm me.


And then we learn this (again, still n the first post):



doneworking said:


> He told me he would never hurt me, that too was untrue because there have been a few instances where he did hurt me. He would grab my upper inner thigh and twist and turn it so hard that it would leave a bruise. I always had to tell him to be gentle when we were intimate with each other. And once he wrapped a phone cord around my neck. Each time I forgave him and tried to make our marriage work


There is clearly a pattern of violence and abuse here. It doesn't matter in the slightest what you and your wife do for kicks. What matters is that doneworking gets the help she needs. Hopefully she did!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Maricha, how does my comment in any shape or form equate to "defending strangulation"? That's ridiculous in the extreme!! There's *no* part that defended it in any way whatsoever.


Cam you truly not see how utterly dismissive you were of this woman's catalogue of abuse?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Maricha, how does my comment in any shape or form equate to "defending strangulation"? That's ridiculous in the extreme!! There's *no* part that defended it in any way whatsoever.
> 
> When people make wild accusations like that, all it does is force the discussion to devolve into name-calling. Maybe that's what some of you want, but it's not for me.





Maricha75 said:


> Actually, Theseus, *I think *always_alone was referring to one of your own previous posts. But I THINK OP answered the "why" of her staying then...can't remember if it was before or after you posted. But the gist of it was that she was too scared to speak up then, but NOW she has the backbone. FWIW, I do agree that she SHOULD have left long ago and reported the incident when family services came to her.


Theseus, I went through the thread. Every single page. And your comment was the only one that even REMOTELY resembled "defending" strangulation, as far as I could tell. Do i think you are defending it, in general? No. However, it _appears_ that you are being dismissive of the OP's concerns over this. Now, I said *I THINK*... meaning I wasn't completely sure, but it APPEARED that was the post to which always_alone was referring. I will admit that there WERE posts stating "who hasn't put hands around the neck during rough sex?" (paraphrase, obviously)... That is pretty close to dismissing the concern as well, IMO. But saying "this was ONE incident in 27 years, and you didn't leave him at that time, so it seems like an awfully weak excuse to leave him for it now" is, at the very least, dismissive of her concern. No, i don't think you defend strangulation in most circumstances. But the above shows that you doubt the validity of her statement, dismissing her concern. Hey, maybe it IS an exaggeration. But when someone FINALLY gets the courage to leave, after years of abuse and/or violence/violent tendencies, it isn't helpful saying "it couldn't have been THAT bad, if you stayed even after that." Yes, it could have. Some stay BECAUSE they are scared...


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

always_alone said:


> It doesn't matter in the slightest what you and your wife do for kicks. What matters is that doneworking gets the help she needs.


I only mentioned that because YOU brought it up. You are the one who decided that anyone who looks at rape porn has a hatred of women.



> Cam you truly not see how utterly dismissive you were of this woman's catalogue of abuse?


OMG, Always_Alone, either you and I live in different worlds entirely, or we read two different threads here.

What "catalog" of abuse? There were *TWO* incidents that she recalled in nearly three decades of marriage. And she didn't leave her husband, call the police, or seek counseling for them. Nor did she provide much detail. I didn't put a strong emphasis on that because SHE didn't emphasize that as the real problem here.

I was only out to answer the OP's concerns on this thread, not to defend every woman on the planet. I suppose I could also keep cranking up my outrage meter as high as it will go and accuse others of all kinds of sinister motives just to prove I don't "hate women", but while that might make me feel superior to some, it has little to do with this issue at hand.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

To the OP here it is 18 pages later on people's thoughts of your husbands violent porn watching and his abuse, I'm assuming you still plan on leaving? If so, good for you. Its always good to stand your ground on how you feel on certain issues. You need to do what works best for yourself and your safety, no matter what other people say, and thats the bottom line.


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## doneworking (Mar 5, 2013)

trey69 said:


> To the OP here it is 18 pages later on people's thoughts of your husbands violent porn watching and his abuse, I'm assuming you still plan on leaving? If so, good for you. Its always good to stand your ground on how you feel on certain issues. You need to do what works best for yourself and your safety, no matter what other people say, and thats the bottom line.


I wholeheartedly agree. 

I appreciate all of the advice I received relating to how to make a safe exit plan. I have made notes and have already put some of the suggestions into action. No doubt I posted in the wrong section on this forum, I thought it was the right place because of the content of my concerns. Nevertheless, I am happy that I did. From all of the responses I received in defense to the violent pornograpy, and insults and jokes of the abuse I received, I can better understand the inner workings of my husband's mind. He likely feels the same as some who expressed their thoughts on the matter. Their insight on what pornograpy is and how little damaging it is to the person who watches it, and how it should be of no real concern to thier mates, helped to solidify my determination to never reconsider giving my marraige another try. They helped me to understand why he was abusive for all those years, and yes, I really was afraid of him. Today I am not, but I still have to becare getting away from him. For quite some time I have been standing up for myself, and considered leaving him for a very very long time for various reasons. It is the knowledge of him being into violent porngrapy that gives me the courage to leave. I will never understand or respect anyone who thinks that hurting women,(even if they are into that kind of stuff), is good. Or that incest even in fatansy is acceptable. And that my dear friends and foes is why I am out. 

Everything I wanted to express I did. If some felt that I was withholding information to better help them to understand that was not my intention. I selected this forum because I trusted that I would get some of the help I needed. I never thougt is would turn into an all out war on the pro's and con's of the subject. 

God bless all of you who really wanted to help me. May all your days be better than the last.

Doneworking.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Good luck to you, DW!


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

See, for all of the pro-porn men out there who thought that posting an opposing view to the OP was going to make her see her husband's side so she could understand him better...you failed. All you did was make her witness the repulsiveness of the male mind and how they view sex and she wants no part of it. For the men who actually evoluted past the neanderthal age, thanks for giving us women hope that there are good men out there 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

"Repulsiveness of the male mind" yes that sums up your feelings on men quite nicely.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

techmom said:


> See, for all of the pro-porn men out there who thought that posting an opposing view to the OP was going to make her see her husband's side so she could understand him better...you failed. All you did was make her witness the repulsiveness of the male mind and how they view sex and she wants no part of it. For the men who actually evoluted past the neanderthal age, thanks for giving us women hope that there are good men out there
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why talk with or get to know anyone as an individual when a stereotype will do.

I'm starting to wonder if this place isn't more toxic than helpful.


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

That's wonderful doneworking,

It is unfortunate that many of these men dismissed your concerns and abuse but I am glad that it gave you the strength to definitely get out of your marriage.
No woman deserves to be abused in her own home, or out of it for that matter, nor should she be forced to deal with her husbands interest in rape porn or the aggression it breeds.
Be safe doneworking, and careful.



doneworking said:


> I wholeheartedly agree.
> 
> I appreciate all of the advice I received relating to how to make a safe exit plan. I have made notes and have already put some of the suggestions into action. No doubt I posted in the wrong section on this forum, I thought it was the right place because of the content of my concerns. Nevertheless, I am happy that I did. From all of the responses I received in defense to the violent pornograpy, and insults and jokes of the abuse I received, I can better understand the inner workings of my husband's mind. He likely feels the same as some who expressed their thoughts on the matter. Their insight on what pornograpy is and how little damaging it is to the person who watches it, and how it should be of no real concern to thier mates, helped to solidify my determination to never reconsider giving my marraige another try. They helped me to understand why he was abusive for all those years, and yes, I really was afraid of him. Today I am not, but I still have to becare getting away from him. For quite some time I have been standing up for myself, and considered leaving him for a very very long time for various reasons. It is the knowledge of him being into violent porngrapy that gives me the courage to leave. I will never understand or respect anyone who thinks that hurting women,(even if they are into that kind of stuff), is good. Or that incest even in fatansy is acceptable. And that my dear friends and foes is why I am out.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

doneworking said:


> From all of the responses I received in defense to the violent pornograpy, and insults and jokes of the abuse I received, I can better understand the inner workings of my husband's mind.


It's true that this thread devolved into name-calling and sniping, and some really unnecessary religious arguments. Some people claimed that anyone who enjoys rape/incest fantasy harbors a hatred of women, and others of us took great offense at that. It's entirely possible that your husband *does* hate women, I don't know the guy so I couldn't possibly say. But it's not fair for you or anyone else to condemn a broad group of people for things that your husband did. People have viewpoints other than yours, it doesn't necessarily make them "evil". 

And to make it clear, no one was criticizing you or joking about you for being abused. What they objected to was the fact that, with your apparent approval, your daughter took control over her father's fantasy life by blocking porn on his computer, and she took his porn habit to the ministers at his Church. These are way outside normal boundaries of a daughter, and frankly none of this should have been any of her business. You said you were afraid of him; well your daughter certainly wasn't, and frankly most men would not tolerate being treated like that. 

Although I disagree with your views about pornography, it's obvious that you want to share your life with someone who's spiritual values are similar to yours, and while that will severely restrict you in regard to future partners, it is your right to make that choice.



> helped to solidify my determination to never reconsider giving my marraige another try.


DW, frankly this forum may not have been the best place for you to get advice, because people's opinions on the subject are very polarized, and both sides often imagine the absolute worst of the other. What you really need is more objective, outside input. 

From what I've read, it sounds like your family life is very insular and my own advice would be that before you throw in the towel, to seek out a marriage counselor that is not affiliated with your Church in any way. Maybe you both could benefit from a disinterested party. If nothing else, it might help you find a better way to separate amicably. 

I wish your whole family well.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

techmom said:


> See, for all of the pro-porn men out there who thought that posting an opposing view to the OP was going to make her see her husband's side so she could understand him better...you failed. All you did was make her witness the repulsiveness of the male mind and how they view sex and she wants no part of it. For the men who actually evoluted past the neanderthal age, thanks for giving us women hope that there are good men out there
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, I read this post a few times and... I'm sorry, but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Why? Because, while I am anti-porn, I am not pro-whatever you were trying to say here. No, I didn't agree with many of the previous posts. Yes, I believe that some glossed over the abuse (possibly because so many already had THAT angle covered). Yes, I find the idea of rape porn and incest porn to be repulsive. I also believe it shouldn't even be created. But then we got some who came on here saying "porn is evil. No one should watch it, no matter what." You know what? Who says? You can't tell someone whose marriage it is allowed in that he or she can't watch it because YOU think it is morally reprehensible. I think that's the gist of what these guys were really saying... the content, sure, repulsive. But no one has the right to tell someone they can't view "regular" porn if it is allowed, or at least not condemned, in someone else's marriage. 

As I have stated, I am anti-porn... in MY marriage. And if someone else has an issue with it in THEIR marriage, then I defend their right to object to it...in their own relationship. But I don't condone berating anyone and everyone who watches even "normal" porn. As long as the spouses are in agreement over it, there IS no discussion about it. Period. 

To say "repulsiveness of the male mind and how they view sex".... that's the part that really left a vile taste in my mouth. Again, while I disagree with defending rape/incest porn, that absolutely does NOT give anyone the right to call the male mind "repulsive" and to say this is how they view sex. It isn't. Again, while I disagree with the defense of the KIND of porn the man was viewing.... I agree with them defending his right to view porn, as long as they didn't disagree about whether it was ok or not.

All that aside, doneworking, I'm glad you have finally been able to stand up to him, after being afraid to do so for so long. If this is truly what you want, I wish you luck. I hope things work out for you, no matter what you do.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Maricha, the voice of reason.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Maricha, the voice of reason.


Nu uh! I'm a "viciously attacking B"! Get it right!


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Reading this thread made me angry, excuse me if I offended anyone with my previous post. The OP was not heard by the men who posted, all they saw was that she wanted to leave her husband because of porn. Then, instead of offering support to her for the abuse she endured and at least giving her props for trying to work it out after she found the porn the first time, she was called a prude and made to feel wrong about being offended by rape porn and incest porn. The posters went out of their way to portray the husband as a not so bad guy, even villifying her for her daughter's actions in taking the matter to her ministers. Everything was said to defend the "helpless male who just wanted to express his sexuality".

This is probably what the OP saw as well, which is why she posted that she wanted to end their marriage because this is probably her husband's reasoning as well. She probably heard the same arguments from him, her ministers are probably leaning towards the husbband's side as well. This is why she came here, to be heard. And look at the responses she got....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

techmom said:


> Reading this thread made me angry, ....Everything was said to defend the "helpless male who just wanted to express his sexuality"._Posted via Mobile Device_


Techmom, if you calm down and take another look at the thread, you will see that most of it isn't actually about the OP or her husband. Most of it is about an argument whether or not enjoying rape/incest fantasies means you are a dangerous person or "hate women". 

As for the abuse, is there something wrong with trying to look at the bigger picture? Some abusive relationships are worse than others. She recounted two incidents in 27 years, and only one of them sounded serious. I don't think it's unreasonable or "dismissive" to put it in the proper context.

As for the daughter, it's not a small deal. Let me ask it this way: what if your husband and son wanted to control what you read and/or watch, and your son put a blocker on your computer, as well as divulging your personal information to others. Wouldn't that seem out of bounds and controlling? And wouldn't that bother you?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

techmom said:


> Reading this thread made me angry, excuse me if I offended anyone with my previous post. The OP was not heard by the men who posted, all they saw was that she wanted to leave her husband because of porn. Then, instead of offering support to her for the abuse she endured and at least giving her props for trying to work it out after she found the porn the first time, she was called a prude and made to feel wrong about being offended by rape porn and incest porn. The posters went out of their way to portray the husband as a not so bad guy, even villifying her for her daughter's actions in taking the matter to her ministers. Everything was said to defend the "helpless male who just wanted to express his sexuality".
> 
> This is probably what the OP saw as well, which is why she posted that she wanted to end their marriage because this is probably her husband's reasoning as well. She probably heard the same arguments from him, her ministers are probably leaning towards the husbband's side as well. This is why she came here, to be heard. And look at the responses she got....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well then...

There's no requirement that the forum agree with the person seeking advice. One of the great things about a public place like this is the variety of opinions expressed and range of ideas you might otherwise never have an opportunity to experience. Who really talks about rape fantasies in their daily life with their friends or spouses? 

If you think the only correct way to respond to a discussion is to provide a pat on the back and an approving nod of the head, no one's best interests are served. Choosing to spend a lot of time on what the OP spent 80% of the original post discussing is also not unwarranted, as long as no one is being disrespectful. Saying "Hey, here are some things you might not have considered" is not being disrespectful. Almost everyone agreed that while the rape porn was something to consider, the choking was indefensible.

I'm sorry that not everyone with a Y chromosome agrees with you. I'm even more sorry that it disgusts you.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

A sharp cut is slashing trought these posts on basis of a reactive feminist view on male sexuality. 

That is a pity. It obscures the real issues and is leading to nothing but a bitter fight without hope.

I would like to point to the fact that there is no evidence of violent porn leading to real life violence. 

There is evidence for the contrary. In Japan the unbelievable violent kind of Manga porn was quite normal to read in for instance the subway, right next to people doing a sudoku etc. etc. At the same time a woman alone could cross the streets far after midnight in the nightlife districts without any fear, statistics on crime against woman there were zero. 

Now look at the countries where these Manga would be leading to the heaviest social consequences: Woman get raped virtually everywhere it is dark and dangerous.

So while there maybe other reasoning to divorce, the lone fact of him looking at this type of porn is no valid reason in my opinon.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

techmom said:


> See, for all of the pro-porn men out there who thought that posting an opposing view to the OP was going to make her see her husband's side so she could understand him better...you failed. All you did was make her witness the *repulsiveness of the male mind *and how they view sex and she wants no part of it. For the men who actually evoluted past the neanderthal age, thanks for giving us women hope that there are good men out there


While I usually like your posts, I think this one is a bit over the top with that words I under lined. 

Did you really mean to say something like that as a blanket statement about men? Or did you mean it to apply to only some men, who are into things that you find repulsive.

I know for a fact that not all men enjoy violent rape porn and not all men would do anything more than a look once or twice out of curiosity. I honestly believe that most men would be replused by violent rape porn and incest porn. 


Just saying....


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

..._*the repulsiveness of the male mind*_...

_________


_________


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

techmom said:


> Reading this thread made me angry, excuse me if I offended anyone with my previous post. The OP was not heard by the men who posted, all they saw was that she wanted to leave her husband because of porn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You said she was not heard by the MEN who posted. Umm I'm a man and I did hear what she said, and was in favor of her leaving. So not every man here dismissed how she felt and what she was trying to say. And yes, SOME did, thats they way it goes in forums.


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## Lionlady (Sep 12, 2012)

I don't want to wade through the billion messages here. I saw that the OPs husband was abusive. That's wrong.

But rape and incest fantasies are common, in both men and women. Incest fantasies don't really do it for me, but the IDEA of non-consensual sex is hot to me...because it's a fantasy...not reality. The idea of a guy wanting me so bad that he just TAKES me is very sexy...in my FANTASY. 

I'm a woman, so I prefer to read more erotica/porn than watch it, but I do watch some porn like that and it turns me on. And I'm not a violent person. I can't comment on which porn is produced illegally, but I've seen some very hot stuff that I definitely know was not produced illegally. 

Now if someone was obsessed with watching rape porn, yeah...that might freak me out. But that it turns people on...men and women? Not surprising. It's taboo. 

Being abusive is a correlation, and not necessarily a causation.


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## Lionlady (Sep 12, 2012)

I also think it's creepy to dictate to someone what he or she should find sexy. If you're that bothered by someone's sexuality, you just shouldn't be with that person. But I would never tell my husband what kind of porn he should or shouldn't watch (barring something illegal). What? Is he going to tell me what kind of vibrator I can use? I don't see how you can have a good sex life if you feel like you always have to look over your shoulder to see if your wife is going to "catch" you doing something bad. I want a husband, not a kid.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Lionlady said:


> I also think it's creepy to dictate to someone what he or she should find sexy. I


And some people think that rape porn is creepy, and thats their right too. I'm glad the OP, knows what she will and will not tolerate in her marriage and strong enough to move beyond it.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

techmom said:


> The OP was not heard by the men who posted, all they saw was that she wanted to leave her husband because of porn. Then, instead of offering support to her for the abuse she endured and at least giving her props for trying to work it out after she found the porn the first time, she was called a prude and made to feel wrong about being offended by rape porn and incest porn. The posters went out of their way to portray the husband as a not so bad guy, even villifying her for her daughter's actions in taking the matter to her ministers.


Unfair generalization:



ocotillo said:


> Well I deeply sympathize with the OP. Based on the conduct of her adult daughter, the mention of ministers plural and a few other things she said, I'm pretty sure I understand what type of denomination she's dealing with if not the exact denomination itself.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I don't think she's going to get the support she needs from them.



I did not defend violent pornography. --Violence against women makes me physically ill.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I know for a fact that not all men enjoy violent rape porn and not all men would do anything more than a look once or twice out of curiosity. I honestly believe that most men would be replused by violent rape porn and incest porn.
> 
> Just saying....


Put me in that category. I can't stomach any pornography that (IMO) degrades or simply uses women for male gratification, which means in reality most of what passes today for mainstream.

That doesn't mean I can't discuss the topic rationally.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Lionlady said:


> I also think it's creepy to dictate to someone what he or she should find sexy.


I think in the OP's case, its less about dictating and more about knowing what the OP will and will not put up with in her marriage. Just because someone says they are do not care for violent porn doesn't mean they are dictating anything, its just how they feel on that issue, period. Its no different than her telling him she doesn't like it when he grabs her and bruises her or doesn't like being choked with a cord, thats not dictating, thats communicating to someone that you don't like being hurt and abused. 


Many women with little self worth stay in abusive situations, but it seems the OP has enough strength and courage to know when to walk away from something hurtful and abusive. My guess is, once she has gone, her husband will likely continue on looking at his violent "fantasy porn". Hopefully he isn't so angry and violent in his own mind, that he crosses over from fantasy into reality with it.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

OP,

I read all your posts and I missed any points besides the porn watching that would be reason to separate, or even to critisize him. 

There is mention of 1 or 2 issues in the whole marriage time?

:scratchhead:


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> OP,
> 
> I read all your posts and I missed any points besides the porn watching that would be reason to separate, or even to critisize him.
> 
> There is mention of 1 or 2 issues in the whole marriage time?


Read closer. Along with the phone cord and bruising incidents (which are pretty scary on their own, IMHO), she mentions an ongoing fear of harm to her safety and the need to constantly remind him to be more gentle during sex.

The incidents she described were examples, and clearly not the whole story


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

always_alone said:


> Read closer. Along with the phone cord and bruising incidents (which are pretty scary on their own, IMHO), she mentions an ongoing fear of harm to her safety and the need to constantly remind him to be more gentle during sex.
> 
> The incidents she described were examples, and clearly not the whole story


:iagree: There is a lot more to the story about his abuse of her than what she posted here. I do wish that the OP had been clearer about that because I think that thread got side tracked over things that were not the real issue.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

See_Listen_Love said:


> OP,
> 
> I read all your posts and I missed any points besides the porn watching that would be reason to separate, or even to critisize him.
> 
> ...


I don't think that the OP is coming back here.

She brought up him choking her with a telephone cord. That is enough to level him over. 

She did mention that there is a lot more. She also mentioned his "extracaricular activities".

Because of the way people responded to her first post the OP did not feel safe posting her and stopped giving more info. I had a PM conversation with her. There is a lot more to this than the couple of incidents that she posted here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lionlady said:


> I also think it's creepy to dictate to someone what he or she should find sexy. If you're that bothered by someone's sexuality, you just shouldn't be with that person. But I would never tell my husband what kind of porn he should or shouldn't watch (barring something illegal). What? Is he going to tell me what kind of vibrator I can use? I don't see how you can have a good sex life if you feel like you always have to look over your shoulder to see if your wife is going to "catch" you doing something bad. I want a husband, not a kid.


The OP is not trying to dictate what her husband finds sexy. She's stating what her own boundaries are.

I would not stay with a man who used violent rape porn on a regular basis for years. Having been violently raped I not only do not find it sexy but that kind of porn would make me physically ill. To me a man who finds that sexy is not someone I want to be around.

That is MY CHOICE. To me it does not matter that you think rape is sexy and that you think it's ok for people to view violent rape porn.

The OP has the same view as I do apparently. She is married to an abusive, violent man who views violent porn to get off sexually. She has every right to not want to be around him and his choice in porn.

I"m not sure why you and some others do not understand that the OP, and everyone, else has the right to set their own boundaries, to not put up with abuse and to live life in a safe place.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I don't think that the OP is coming back here.
> 
> She brought up him choking her with a telephone cord. That is enough to level him over.
> 
> ...


With all due respect to the OP, to whom I harbor no ill will, you shouldn't be surprised when you spend 80% of your post talking about one aspect of the relationship, bury the physical abuse in the last paragraph of a long opening salvo, and expect people to not focus on what turns out not to be the real issue. Throw the perennial powder keg of porn into the mix, and the inevitable happens.

I call BS on the not feeling safe excuse. This is a completely anonymous forum. No one is going to come batter down your door if they don't agree with you, and no one knows you personally. There isn't a safer place on earth to discuss an abusive relationship. 

It is probably safer, in fact, than going to your pastor.

Several suggestions were made that a new thread, focused on the abuse in a more appropriate forum might be a good idea. Apparently they went unheeded.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cletus said:


> With all due respect to the OP, to whom I harbor no ill will, you shouldn't be surprised when you spend 80% of your post talking about one aspect of the relationship, bury the physical abuse in the last paragraph of a long opening salvo, and expect people to not focus on what turns out not to be the real issue. Throw the perennial powder keg of porn into the mix, and the inevitable happens.
> 
> I call BS on the not feeling safe excuse. This is a completely anonymous forum. No one is going to come batter down your door if they don't agree with you, and no one knows you personally. There isn't a safer place on earth to discuss an abusive relationship.
> 
> ...


Good grief. While you are used to posting on this forum and maybe other forums, maybe the OP is not.

So she did not think things through and could have done a better job putting together a post that focused on the main problem.. the abuse. This happens a lot with people who are not used to posting on forums. The orginal post often minimzies the real issue. That's why asking questions to get clarification is a really good idea.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> I"m not sure why you and some others do not understand that the OP, and everyone, else has the right to set their own boundaries, to not put up with abuse and to live life in a safe place.


I've seen no one in this thread argue that the OP did not have the right to set boundaries.

I've seen some argue that her daughter was wrong for tattling on her husband to the church authorities. I've seen some argue that 2 violent incidents, over 25 years, doesn't necessarily make a pattern. I've seen some argue that pornography doesn't translate to real-world threats. And, I've argued that, as a committed Christian, she should consider the New Testament's teachings on the dissolution of marriage before she divorces. Although, I've acknowledged several times she has every right to do it, and even that it might be the most advantageous thing for her to do.

I don't understand the hostility toward any of the above positions.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I call BS on the not feeling safe excuse. This is a completely anonymous forum. No one is going to come batter down your door if they don't agree with you, and no one knows you personally. There isn't a safer place on earth to discuss an abusive relationship.


I don't think you quite understand what is at stake here. Even voicing her concerns is a very real threat to her safety. To take that risk, and then to have your concerns trivialized because they "don't sound that bad" would be enough to shut anyone down.

It is truly wonderful to be in a place where you can't understand abuse, or the devastating effects it can have. But please do not assume that this place of privilege belongs to all of us.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I don't understand the hostility toward any of the above positions.


The hostility comes because these arguments are all trivializing a very real, extremely serious problem that affects a lot of women. It is a happy thing for you that you cannot recognize the signs, but it is infuriating to those of us who can to be yet again dismissed as irrational anti-porn crusaders.

Sometimes, it is better to listen than to speak.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

always_alone said:


> I don't think you quite understand what is at stake here. Even voicing her concerns are a very real threat to her safety. To take that risk, and then to have your concerns trivialized because they "don't sound that bad" would be enough to shut anyone down.
> 
> It is truly wonderful to be in a place where you can't understand abuse, or the devastating effects it can have. But please do not assume that this place of privilege belongs to all of us.


Voicing her concerns here are a threat to her safety? Why? Is her husband likely to be trolling this forum? He's the only person who presents even a remote safety concern.

She may not _feel_ safe, but that's a perception problem, not an actual problem.


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## Lionlady (Sep 12, 2012)

> I"m not sure why you and some others do not understand that the OP, and everyone, else has the right to set their own boundaries, to not put up with abuse and to live life in a safe place.


I totally think she has the right to set boundaries. And I flat out said that abuse is wrong. I'd leave too in the circumstances she described. But having fantasies about things doesn't make you abusive. Lots of people are into consensual BDSM, but that doesn't make them mean people. 

I also think that it's totally fine for people to have boundaries, but I see many women trying to control their husband's porn consumption (not saying it doesn't happen the other way around, but I haven't seen that). If it bothers you that much leave (as the OP did, but obviously there were compounded issues there). Don't just tell your partner that you forbid him to look at certain things and except him to comply. If he's not trying to do things with you that you find objectionable, I'm not sure why it should bother you. People are entitled to their own sexual identities.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Voicing her concerns here are a threat to her safety? Why? Is her husband likely to be trolling this forum? He's the only person who presents even a remote safety concern.


If he is watching her, which he very well might be doing, and catches her posting private and unflattering comments about him, there is a very good chance she is in for another "incident."

Then imagine how angry he would be if she posted the whole list of things he has done to her...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

always_alone said:


> If he is watching her, which he very well might be doing, and catches her posting private and unflattering comments about him, there is a very good chance she is in for another "incident."
> 
> Then imagine how angry he would be if she posted the whole list of things he has done to her...


Ok, fine, no lo contendre. I would have thought that cat was out of the bag after the first post. In for a penny, in for a pound. She had already called the guy a pervert and physical abuser in round one. 

Maybe I and others don't have the necessary experience in abusive relationships to have an informed opinion. Thank god for that. May as few of us as possible ever gain that knowledge.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Jamison said:


> I think in the OP's case, its less about dictating and more about knowing what the OP will and will not put up with in her marriage. Just because someone says they are do not care for violent porn doesn't mean they are dictating anything, its just how they feel on that issue, period. Its no different than her telling him she doesn't like it when he grabs her and bruises her or doesn't like being choked with a cord, thats not dictating, thats communicating to someone that you don't like being hurt and abused.
> 
> 
> Many women with little self worth stay in abusive situations, but it seems the OP has enough strength and courage to know when to walk away from something hurtful and abusive. My guess is, once she has gone, her husband will likely continue on looking at his violent "fantasy porn". Hopefully he isn't so angry and violent in his own mind, that he crosses over from fantasy into reality with it.


:iagree:


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

always_alone said:


> The hostility comes because these arguments are all trivializing a very real, extremely serious problem that affects a lot of women. It is a happy thing for you that you cannot recognize the signs, but it is infuriating to those of us who can to be yet again dismissed as irrational anti-porn crusaders.


We're not trivializing violence. This thread didn't start as a domestic violence thread. It started as a pornography thread. You may not be able to see a difference. But most rational people can.



> Sometimes, it is better to listen than to speak.


I agree. Yet still you post.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lionlady said:


> I totally think she has the right to set boundaries. And I flat out said that abuse is wrong. I'd leave too in the circumstances she described. But having fantasies about things doesn't make you abusive. Lots of people are into consensual BDSM, but that doesn't make them mean people.
> 
> I also think that it's totally fine for people to have boundaries, but I see many women trying to control their husband's porn consumption (not saying it doesn't happen the other way around, but I haven't seen that). If it bothers you that much leave (as the OP did, but obviously there were compounded issues there). Don't just tell your partner that you forbid him to look at certain things and except him to comply. If he's not trying to do things with you that you find objectionable, I'm not sure why it should bother you. People are entitled to their own sexual identities.


To the OP it does not matter that for some, violent fantacies do not equate violent behavior. Her husband is violent and he views violent porn. One thing that I picked up from converstion with her is that he has tried to act out the violence from the porn on her. Had people bothered to ask her more about her situation and not turned this thread into a political discourse they might have found this out.

She is an adult and has the right to set whatever limits/boundaries she wants in her life. She told her husband that she cannot handle him watching violent porn, especialy since it seems to manifest into her real life (and sex life). He is an adult. He has two choices. 1) stop watching violent rape porn and incest porn that bothers his wife. 2) continue watching this type of porn and leave her.

You are right that she cannot control what he does. But it was wrong for him to promise her that he would stop viewing the violent porn (tell a lie) and then to continue viewing it behind her back.

His lying about the porn use and his violence towards her are both wrong.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Ok, fine, no lo contendre. I would have thought that cat was out of the bag after the first post. In for a penny, in for a pound. She had already called the guy a pervert and physical abuser in round one.
> 
> Maybe I and others don't have the necessary experience in abusive relationships to have an informed opinion. Thank god for that. May as few of us as possible ever gain that knowledge.


It's very seldom that a person in the denial stage of a seriously abusive relationship will come out and just post clearly about the abuse. They often seek out help by talking about everything BUT the real issue.. except for one or two little kernals that they throw out. It can be like pulling teeth to get to the bottom of it and to find out that the real issue is the that they are with a mean, violent person.

This denial is born from the fact that to stay in this marriage she had to lie to herself for years. She had to pretend things were not so bad, he was not really hurting her. He really does love her, etc.

This is what I saw in the first post. Those two little comments about "oh and by the way he tried to stangle me with a telephone cord." 

And note that she never said he tried to stangle her. Nope, instead she said that he put a cord around her neck. But later we find out that she was hurt badly enough to go to the hospital and for the hospital to try to get an intervention. The hospital does not call in intervention if there is not physical evidence that she has been harmed. 

It is apparently easier for the OP to talk about the violent porn. This is probably because the porn is not personal. It's not about how she has been abused for years by her husband. So she started out with a long things about the porn.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> We're not trivializing violence. This thread didn't start as a domestic violence thread.


Yes it did. It was clear to me right from the start. I can see how someome could've misread that first post-- it wasn't the clearest in the universe. But there was definitely more than just porn or just 2 incidents going on even then.

Elegirl describes it very well in her posts.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Yes it did. It was clear to me right from the start. I can see how someome could've misread that first post-- it wasn't the clearest in the universe. But there was definitely more than just porn or just 2 incidents going on even then.
> 
> *Elegirl describes it very well in her posts.*


EleGirl describes it very well because she has lived through the violence. EleGirl describes it so well because she has been PM'ing doneworking, so she has information that was not posted on the thread.

At first glance, no, it is NOT apparent that it is about violence...at least, not to everyone. I didn't latch on to the violence right away. My issue was the incest portion of the post. That's what stuck out to me. I didn't even catch the phone cord portion because of the fact that the title was, essentially, "I don't like that my husband is watching this kind of porn"... I, too, am anti-porn, as I have stated many times. In the beginning, my thought was "oh boy, another woman posting that she hates porn. The guys are gonna beat her up over it." And, she DID get beat up, so to speak, because they saw the same thing I did at first. Some of the men who were "beating her up" saw the abuse after I did. But people continued to berate them for what THEY saw at first. 

This whole subject could have been easily discussed RATIONALLY, had the OP been encouraged to explain further about her situation. Knowing what I do NOW, it is definitely clear, to me, that the porn was the last straw. But not everyone saw the thread the same way you did, always_alone. I didn't. So I had to go back to the beginning to see it... and even to point it all out to others.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

always_alone said:


> Yes it did. It was clear to me right from the start. I can see how someome could've misread that first post-- it wasn't the clearest in the universe. But there was definitely more than just porn or just 2 incidents going on even then.
> 
> Elegirl describes it very well in her posts.


Yes, Elegirl says that she has corresponded with the OP and uncovered a long history of violence. However, as you admit, it was easy to interpret the initial post as being about porn. I'm not going to feel too badly that I interpreted the initial post in the way it was written. I just don't have the time to investigate the threads that I participate in to see if there is additional information that was left out of the thread.

So, I put out a few points about the OP's daughter, her church, and the lack of causality between pornography and violent behavior, in general. I was just trying to give her a point of view that she likely hadn't considered. When one is considering a major life event, like divorce, I think careful consideration from several different viewpoints can be a valuable practice.

Then, the discussion spun off into a general discussion on how porn is harmful and men who watch porn are dangerous. And that's pretty much where we've been ever since, with some here escalating the rhetoric to the point that they claim that failing to connect pornography viewing with dangerous psychopathy equates to a blatant hatred of women. In general, I disagree.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

PHTlump said:


> Yes, Elegirl says that she has corresponded with the OP and uncovered a long history of violence. However, as you admit, it was easy to interpret the initial post as being about porn. I'm not going to feel too badly that I interpreted the initial post in the way it was written.


I don't see why anyone would need to feel bad for interpreting this as a thread about violent porn, since that is what was presented as the problem. *In case some people have forgotten, the name of this very thread is "Violent Pornography"!!*

Aside from the fact that the OP didn't focus on the abuse, and only mentioned two incidents in 27 years, there were some things that wouldn't fit. For example, if this is a husband who terrorizes his family, it just seems strange that he would allow his own daughter to block his computer from the violent porn he's supposedly addicted to. I can only go on the facts that are given to us. 



> Then, the discussion spun off into a general discussion on how porn is harmful and men who watch porn are dangerous.


Exactly. And anyone who disagreed with that was accused of trivializing the OP's concerns or defending this particular guy. That was absolutely wrong. I don't know this guy, and I have no reason to defend him. 

As Cletus also said earlier, when people look for advice in these threads, they shouldn't be looking for everyone to automatically take their side and echo their opinions. They are looking for an outside perspective. If she just needed validation, she could go to a battered women's forum where everyone will drip with sympathy for her. 

And my perspective comes from my own experiences. As I said earlier, my wife and I have enjoyed rape porn at times. In the past, I have also dated women who had "Daddy" fantasies, and they liked to act it out. But none of them "hate women", and neither do I. None of them are psychopaths that need to be in jail for rape or incest fantasies. I myself have never been arrested, or even been accused of abuse or violence. In fact, I have served in Afghanistan and seen the worst treatment of women that you can possibly imagine, so I took great offense at the "hating women" accusations. I'm not going to apologize for that.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> T*o the OP it does not matter that for some, violent fantacies do not equate violent behavior.* Her husband is violent and he views violent porn. One thing that I picked up from converstion with her is that he has tried to act out the violence from the porn on her. Had people bothered to ask her more about her situation and not turned this thread into a political discourse they might have found this out.
> 
> She is an adult and has the right to set whatever limits/boundaries she wants in her life. She told her husband that she cannot handle him watching violent porn, especialy since it seems to manifest into her real life (and sex life). He is an adult. *He has two choices. 1) stop watching violent rape porn and incest porn that bothers his wife. 2) continue watching this type of porn and leave her.*
> 
> ...


Well, it does matter to her. I think the supposed causal link between watching violent porn and acting abusive is very questionable.

Since the majority of men watch porn, since the majority are not abusive, the cause of his violence to her may well be a mental disorder.

When she then thinks the two choices are going to solve the problem she is dangerously wrong on the subject.

I would suggest that if you leave the porn issue totally out of the equation you see the facts in his behaviour that are different from normal family situations.

That could lead to having him diagnosed either criminal or a mental patient. That would at least bare the real issues.

my 0,02.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> If you have actually read any of my posts, you would see that I haven't said "no one should ever view it" or the like. I have said "if it works in your marriage, great. it doesn't work in mine". You can go back through as many porn threads as you wish and you will see that I post the same thing... if BOTH are fine with it, great. If one is not, then there is a problem. But that doesn't automatically give ANYONE the right to berate someone who comes here, asking for advice regarding the subject of porn. Maybe the problem IS much more than just porn. But I have a big problem with people telling someone that they need to "suck it up" because "everyone is doing it" and "there's nothing wrong with it". There IS something wrong with it... TO HER. Just because many on here think it's just fine doesn't mean it is for everyone. And it appears, the OP is one who is NOT ok with it. Or maybe just certain genres she is not ok with. Regardless, the point I am trying to make is that it doesn't matter to me if it works in your marriage, or Cletus's (sorry Cletus, just throwing a name out there). So be it. But if SHE has a problem with it in HER marriage, it isn't right to tell her she is wrong NOT to want it in HER marriage. If I am wrong, then she can tell me I am wrong, and I will apologize for it. But no, I certainly don't say no one can ever view it. Many "pro-porn" people can attest to the fact that I have maintained that stance.


Sorry for the delay in responding and the misunderstanding, Maricha. I was merely using your example (and phrasing) as a jumping-off point for a more general question, not meant to apply specifically to anyone. Unless the description fits them, naturally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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