# Father seeking 50-50 in Cali, what can i do?



## sam (Jul 2, 2009)

I am the father, I want 50-50, wife wants me to have 20-80.... 

im in CA, i dont know really anything about custody, what are the real world chances that I can get 50-50? im not a drinker, junkie, or ever been violent. my wifes main complaint is that I work evenings. she will not agree to a 50-50 custody, she wont budge. 

I work full time, 4pm to 12am roughly, is that gonna kill me?

any other tips are really welcome, i have mediation coming in april.

THANKS ALL!


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Please go to this site: Daddy Got Custody and speak with Fred (the site owner). Please tell him that Affaircare referred you! 

(FYI here's his Daddy Got Custody Blog)

Fred is out of Texas but he specializes in helping dad's get custody and hook up with folks in their state. The idea is not to get the world's greatest attorney or something. You are the parent of those children JUST AS MUCH AS YOUR WIFE possibly more. She has no more right to tell you "You can't have 50/50" than you have to tell her that. Can you *imagine* the nerve telling her she could only have 80/20? No way! 

Anyway, here are my quick suggestions. Make sure your kids have a place at your home--their own bedroom, clothes, dressers etc. Arrange for child care as if they lived with you--what would you do if their mom just up and left? You'd still work and have child care arrangements right? So you are their parent and you can do the same exact thing NOW. She has no right to keep them more than 50/50 but you have to step up and act like you are ready to be the full-time "single-dad" now. 

For the rest... I leave it to Fred. He is a good friend and will do a good job helping you.


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## sam (Jul 2, 2009)

HUGE thanks!!!!


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

What is your motive for wanting your kids 50/50? I honestly ask because let's just get it out there right on the table and talk about - money.

Many fathers want "50/50" so they can lower/eliminate child support and not have to pay their ex.

I am not saying that is your motive at all. . .but let's just maturely talk abou it without judgment because this is real world and money is involved.

If you work the swing shift at whereever, why would you want to, in a 50/50 fashion, have your kids over at your place let's say 2-3 evenings/week while you are at work and need a babysitter to watch them? It sounds like a nightmare for me. Wouldn't it just be easier to pay "your ex" and let her be the custodian of them while you are at work?

Maybe make alternative arrangements like during summers you have them during the day while you work at night plus the other days of the school year that your wife will inevitably need help with (Columbus Day, in-service days, etc).

I personally (and a lot of people think me weird) never got the King Solomon 50/50 thing with divorce and kids although I know it's becoming popular and I have no doubt it can work.

Just remember. . .if you have custody (physical) on one of those 50/50 days, it's on you, buddy. They're sick? You're calling out of work. They need to be run to band practice. It's on you. Your ex will say, "It's on you buddy. . ." Don't expect cooperation.

Now. . .let's add one more thing to the mix. . . the kids. 

A. Do kids really want 2 homes in a divorce? OR do they just want 1 home where their friends, toys and so forth are and a chance for Dad to be in their social orbit?

B. ARe the kids entitled to 2 homes in a divorce? My opinion is no. . .they are only entitled to 1.

Just giving you some food for thought.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

sam said:


> I work full time, 4pm to 12am roughly, is that gonna kill me?


Who is going to watch after them from 4-12pm? It's difficult to find somebody to take care of your kids during that time. You need somebody to be there for them even in the morning time. You come from work late, and will be a torture for you to wake up every morning to make kids ready for school, and give them a ride for school if they need it. And this is in a normal day. What about when your kids are sick? You will come from work and instead of sleeping you have to be there for your child. Being a good parent is the most difficult job. 
Sincerely I don't believe you can do it, and I don't like kids to have two homes. Doesn't feel right. It's not fair. Imagine yourself living like that. It looks like you have two homes, and still you do not belong to either of them.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I do understand where you are both coming from on this, but let me ask you both a question back. How does a single mom do it? She has to work and support herself and the children--and it's not like she sits at home collecting alimony and child support forever. Eventually the day comes (sooner usually than later) when she has to work 35+ hours a week, get up when she's tired to get the kids off to school, have some arrangement for child care when she's gone.... Why would a person assume either of these things: a) he wants them to "come over 2-3 nights a week" rather than living with him as if it is just as equally their house? or b) that a mom can work swing as a nurse and get the kids off to school in the morning but a dad can not. 

See how weirdly biased that is? 

We here in the USA have literally been programmed to sort of just accept the fact that if a husband and wife split, the wife gets the kids. Well what if the husband honestly is the better parent, more able to provide physically, financially, emotionally, morally and in every other way? Why would a single-FATHER not be able to make the same kinds of tiring and noble sacrifices a single-mother makes? The answer is that of course HE CAN.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

affaircare we don't know which of them is a better parent, but I agree with his wife, or he needs to change the shift, or his job. If you really love your kids to be with you, you have to make sacrifices. My H used to work night time, and sincerely he wasn't able to take care of our kids during daytime. He slept all day, and I had to quit the job and take care of my kids. 
During the day kids are at school, but afternoons, and evenings you have to pay a babysitter everyday for how many years? Can he afford it financially? If his wife works day time, is better that kids stay with his mother. He can go and see his kids every time he wants. He can have his kids on weekends.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Affaircare,

First of all. . .there is always biases. That isn't necessarily a bad thing but for the sake of discussion, I am assuming 

A. THe OP is a good father.
B. The OP's stb-x is a good mother

and taking it from there.

More assumptions:

A. The kids have school everyday til about 3 or 4 when he goes to work.
B. As you are saying, the mom has to work fulltime too and use child support for daycare/wraparound care.

Yes, if he is willling to make the sacrafices and change the shift to more a suitable one, than he should do that and I say, "Go for it." as far as splitting them 50/50.

Now. . .I throw it back to you. . .let's say he does this. . .and he gets them M/W/F and T/R opposite weeks and every other weekend in a true King Solomon fashion. . .how will the kids feel about that?

Now that he's changed shifts/jobs and went thru all the rigamarole to do that (in a bad economy) and he loses the shift differential assumedly. . .all of the sudden the older kid says, "Dad. . .can't I just stay with mom during the week? IT's kind of boring here. I have no friends. . .I have to sit with Mrs. Crotchedy Babysitter. No Dad. .. actually this bites!!!"

It could be a recipe for the kids being miserable and him being miserable.

I am just saying don't do this because of some weird "I've got rights!!!" mentality.

No one is disputing he does have rights anymore. Fathers (actually the kids - it's easy to forget that the rights are of the kids) have rights and entitlements.

I am just questioning the wisdom of him exercising those rights.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Affaircare,

BTW, we are all adults and allowed to have different opinions as fathers and mothers. Everyone here has been very respectful of my opinion and I am respectful of yours and this is the best forum for that.

Here is my opinion (and again, it's only 1)

1. I agree with Deb as a mother (and I am a father) in that the kids should have 1 home. Now that doesn't mean perhaps there is not a summer home or a weekend home for the father but just one main home. The second home should only change when to me, the kids routine changes (as per the summer perhaps).

2. I think the goal is for the father to remain in the kids "social orbit". That means going to sports, band concerts, taking them out on their first date. . .all the things fathers (and mothers) should be involved in.

With a swing shift job, that is going to be difficult enough when a concert or play or sports is during the week but maybe easier than taking a whole shift off (maybe he can leave for 2-3 hours).

Why have the pressure of finding a swing shift babysitter when it's going to be hard enough for him to just go to his kids Christmas Concert?

I am not a big fan of the "mandatory Dad time" (visitation) that often happens in divorces.

It's easy for fathers to fall into the trap of "Well, I'm not paying that ***** a dime. . .I'm getting the kids 50/50" UNDERSTANDABLE PSYCHOLOGY! I am just saying take a step back and really think about it. Kids are a labor of love.

2 operative words - labor and love.

Be careful about taking on labor that you can't do, especially when you have a mother offering to take on 80% of the labor.


3. The kids should have a relationship with their father and that doesn't mean that has to begin and end with "visitation" (see above).

I am wise enough to know being in the middle of this that every divorce is remarkably different.

I am hardly taking my kids for any overnights.

But. . .but I have the baby every Tuesday (overnight Mon and Tues). . .I am volunteering to be a Room Dad for the 1rst grader, maybe 2-3 afternoons/week. . .and trying to get my oldest son involved in my business to work a couple days with me.

I try to get them 1 on 1 during the week for an overnight here and there.

I go to 60-80% of their sports and activties when my work schedule permists.

I take the kids an occasional weekend.

And I hope to build a summer home for them.

My intention is not to provide some makeshift "second home" for them. They have a home. My only goal is to maintain a relationship with them and then hopefully it will evolve into a second home someday as they go to college and need summer work.

For now though, my home will be a bachelor pad. And it's not a place for my children is my philosophy. Their place is with their mother and in the home they've always known.

I am not saying my situation is right for everyone but it helps the OP to talk to different fathers to hear what the possibiities and freedoms are.

I hope you post your situation, Affaircare too for the OP's benefit.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Deb* said:


> affaircare we don't know which of them is a better parent, but I agree with his wife, or he needs to change the shift, or his job.


 So if the mom is a nurse working 2nd shift (3pm-11pm) and dad is an executive working 9am to 5pm, then in your scheme DAD gets the kids? Or mom is required to quit her job if she has the kids? So in your opinion all second or third shift single moms should lose their children to their ex-husband or be required to change their shift in order to get custody? What I'm trying to point out here is not to be argumentative but rather if it's good for the goose it's good for the gander. If a single mom can work second shift and keep the kids and be a good parent, then so can a single dad. 



> If you really love your kids to be with you, you have to make sacrifices. My H used to work night time, and sincerely he wasn't able to take care of our kids during daytime. He slept all day, and I had to quit the job and take care of my kids.


 If you REALLY loved your kids, you would put the effort into making your marriage strong, remain faithful, and keep their home together! So REALLY loving your kids means honoring your commitment. If your spouse is bound and determined to divorce you even though you were faithful, I see no reason why you should accept less than 50/50 with your own children; why penalize the children? 

Further, I know for a fact that a single father *CAN* work the second or third shift, and successfully raise his children on his own. Get the kids off to school at 7am, pick them up at 3pm with the sitter (or Gramma watching them), off to work from 4pm to 11pm, home in time to kiss the kids good night, there to wake them in the morning for another day and get them off to school again. Is that really any less time than the single mom would spend with the kids if she worked full time?



> During the day kids are at school, but afternoons, and evenings you have to pay a babysitter everyday for how many years? Can he afford it financially?


 So again, applying goose to gander--if the single mom works full-time she would also have to pay a babysitter or child care of some kind every day for how many years. Is that care less expensive in the mom's home than in the dad's? Or do they have to pay for fewer years in the mom's home? Nope. See how that's just a weird bias we have here in the USA? We sort of "expect" moms to get the kids and deal with all that and act like a perfectly intelligent loving dad couldn't do it just as well. 



> If his wife works day time, is better that kids stay with his mother. He can go and see his kids every time he wants. He can have his kids on weekends.


And exactly why not have the kids have their one home with their dad, and she can go see the kids every time she wants and have her kids on weekends? WHY? Do you honestly think they could not have a happy, loving, working, stable homelife just as well with their father, as I described it above? I know for a fact they could. 

So what is *really* acting in the love for the children--you tell me? Protecting the security of their family by making the effort to have a strong marriage? Or tearing up the family and forcing them to not be with their father, who loves them at least as much as their mother?


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## sam (Jul 2, 2009)

I am kinda offended but thats besides the point.

As far as money goe, it is a non factor to me... I live a pretty simple existance, i have a wrecked out salvage title car, simple clothes and no tv... i am a guy who would rather spend my time in the world DOING things with my kids. I even told the wife I would PAY the support per her 80-20 schedule so long as she writes it up that I get them 50 percent of the time...she denied that.

Regarding the question of me being able to pull it off- As of now, I already DO. I work till 12am, go home and crash, then i drive over to the kids house and I take my daughters to school (daughter rides her scooter and I skateboard to the school). then, when possible I take my youngest out with me and we hang out. i sleep at night, once i am up i am doin stuff, with my kids or otherwise. alot of times I pick my daughters up from school also. 

I am not flexing my rights, I have been an involved dad their whole lives and now my wife is trying to shave it down so i only see them 4 days a month....thats insane to me, How can I possibly remain a serious force in their lives with that amount of contact???? And Scannerguard, if you wish to merely remain in your childs "social orbit" thats cool, thats what you like and if that works for you-great, but for me, doing little things here and there wont cut it, i feel that I need to have enough time with them so it isnt like the "dad time" are the good times- I want the boring, and all that, I want them to respect me and i want to be the father i HAVE BEEN.

And i dont know where you get your intel, but even at 50-50 i still have to pay child support....check that out. 

And my place is never going to be a "bachelor pad"...My kids have a stake, in everything i do, and they know that they have a spot with me regardles of my situ because they are my kids.

Personally, you sound like you cant hang with the responsibility that comes with shared custody, and thats fine, but I have kicked ass for my girls from day 1, my world revolves around them and I can do anything needed to take care of them.

And regarding sacrifice: I have....PLENTY. And I will do anything it takes to remain a father to them, that is fact.

And thank you affaircare for highlighting the bias! its insane, outrageous actually... But thats our world. I AM a good parent, and my STBX is a good parent as well. I just feel like im being pushed aside here, and im not going to let that happen without doing everything in my power to get a fair deal. My daughters love me, they enjoy our times together, but this every other weekend thing is trash, its like i get them, we have a good time, then home to mom....

So, NO, this isnt about money
-This is about me having my life ripped away from me
-I am a good dad
-and as far as sitters go, i have some lined up as of today.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

It's tough Sam. I couldn't come anywhere close to 50-50. I'm every other weekened, even ones on odd years or some such. Granted, I am gone a lot during the day, but it's because I work, and still there isn't really enough money.

The system really isn't fair. It is definitely biased towards the mom, but if mom's are so much more improtant that Dads, why do criminals seem to only have moms 90% of the time. Just a thought with a quasi fabricated statistic. However, I learned in court today that my statements don't actually have to be true, I only need to earnestly believe they are. 

LIL


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Yes, if he is willing to make the sacrifices and change the shift to more a suitable one, than he should do that and I say, "Go for it." as far as splitting them 50/50.


And I throw it back to you. Do you make the single mom who's a second shift nurse change/quit her job? Is there honestly no way you can see for a father to still absolutely provide a home and parenting while working second shift? What if he were widowed and not divorced--suddenly can he continue with second shift if that's how he would provide for his family best? (FYI I ask these questions to try to help you challenge some of your own assumptions and biases--not to argue with you. I'm sort of hoping to get you thinking...) 



> Now. . .I throw it back to you. . .let's say he does this. . .and he gets them M/W/F and T/R opposite weeks and every other weekend in a true King Solomon fashion. . .how will the kids feel about that?


Honestly? The kids are pissed that one of the two parents was so selfish that they split up their family just for a thrill. The kids want to spend all their time with both parents. And they may prefer Sun-Wed dropped off at school at dad's and Wed picked up at school-Sat at mom's. Or they might prefer one week with mom and one week with dad. 



> Now that he's changed shifts/jobs and went thru all the rigamarole to do that (in a bad economy) and he loses the shift differential assumedly. . .all of the sudden the older kid says, "Dad. . .can't I just stay with mom during the week? IT's kind of boring here. I have no friends. . .I have to sit with Mrs. Crotchedy Babysitter. No Dad. .. actually this bites!!!"


Or the older kids could say "Dad, can't I just stay with you? All mom ever does is sit at the PC and chat with other men or text and it's embarrassing! I have all my computer games here with you, and we live like men together. Mom won't let me listen to the music I like, and you let us wear our shoes in the living room and ride bikes without a helmet." 

My point is that if they have a home with dad and mom, they would have stuff, clothes, music, friends, etc. at both places--probably different things they can do at each place--and maybe different friends or whatnot. But they have the security of knowing that both parents care enough to make room for them. 

AND I'd say 99% of the fathers I know are completely capable of raising their children with their own morals and beliefs just as well as any mother. What happens in your scenario to a Stay At Home Dad? If they agreed for the husband to stay home and raise the children and mom to continue her executive job...then does he get the kids and she pays child support? 

It could be a recipe for the kids being miserable and him being miserable.



> I am (NOT) just saying don't do this because of some weird "I've got rights!!!" mentality.
> 
> No one is disputing he does have rights anymore. Fathers (actually the kids - it's easy to forget that the rights are of the kids) have rights and entitlements.
> 
> I am just questioning the wisdom of him exercising those rights.


Yep I hear ya. I do. I just think that it is far wiser for the children to continue having a father in their life, and frankly, often father's are the better parent or at least equally as good. People do literally assume "moms should have the kids" and if a mom goes off and gets a full-time second shift job in the hospital, no one gives it a thought. Obviously she can be a single mom and raise the kids and figure out how to carpool. Well...obviously so could he!


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Sam, (and affaircare)

Relax. . .I am on your side. I am not judging you nor am I saying a father can't do it. Of course he can. The discussion I think Deb and I are making is "Should he?". And yes, I can't handle the responsibility of 2 jobs and 50/50 kids. If you can, great!!! I support you.

I beleive you are a good dad. I am too beleive it or not.

Okay, now that that's out of the way. . .

How is it with the shift you work you are going to get to spend time with them, even if you have a babysitter lined up? Do you think with your work that this will happen:



> feel that I need to have enough time with them so it isnt like the "dad time" are the good times- I want the boring, and all that, I want them to respect me and i want to be the father i HAVE BEEN.


First of all, they are always going to respect you. I wouldn't operate on that fear. Second of all, the reality of divorce is you won't be the father you have always been. You are about to morph into something different. If that means 50/50, 20/80, 80/20, 99/1. . .whatever. . .I support you. Before it was 100/100. . .now it's not.

One thing though. . .and this is a stark cold reality. . .



> This is about me having my life ripped away from me


Unfortunately,it's not. It's about the kids.

Judges don't give a flying fart about your life, your wife's life, she slept with the NY Yankeess, and you slept with the Rockettes. Wah. Wah. Wah. They've heard it all and hear it 10-30x/day for about 10 minutes each case. They only want to feel whatever is in the best interest of the kids.

Whether you can make a case that a sitter at your house vs. a home with their mother or not, I dunno. . .I am not a lawyer. But my inclination is it's going to be a hard sell. This idea that you get to kiss them goodnight at 11 p.m when they are asleep and wake them up to get ready for school. . .I don't know. I just am not sure why a kid would want to be with a sitter.

And yes. . .if the Dad worked 9 to 5 as an exec. and there was a mom nurse who worked 3 to 11, I think the opposite would apply.

However, I do think there is a gender bias, and with good reason, that it's important for the young children to be with mom and as they get older, they can be with dad.

I do think there is a difference between mothering and fathering and it goes beyond moms having a vagina and men having a penis. But I know a genderless "parenting" is en vogue vs. "mothering" and "fathering."

I would just suggest that you give the idea a chance there is a difference between mothering and fathering and the woman needs a chance to mother just as much as you need a chance to father.

Good luck nonetheless and honestly I hope you and your kids emerge happy and healthy.


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## sam (Jul 2, 2009)

"the woman needs a chance to mother just as much as you need a chance to father."


Now why dont I deserve the chance to FATHER equally???


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Affaircare,

I am assuming too that the wife in this case is in the child's original home too. Maybe they are not. I think kid are just as bonded to the original home as they are their parents.

In that way, it's 2 vs. 1 in this argument. Mother/home vs. father. He's got to sell the idea that this is a great home. . .the babysitter is grandma (if one is available) and she just lovvvves caring for them and their relationship is so strong.

Something like that.

If I were a family lawyer, that's what I would want to be armed with going into court. . .not "My client is a Dad and he has rights and Dads are just as important as Moms!!!!"

I wonder if there isn't another form of compromise here - there are so many days that kids have off from school nowadays - Columbus Day as I noted, multiple in service days, summers. . .it seems like everytime I turn around my kids are off.

I see an opportunity here since he's home during the day to take a load off of mom's shoulders when they have those days off. Help them with homework, boring stuff and museum and park stuff.

I would negotiate that in there and if it doesn't translate into $$$ overnight credit (and money is a concern - no need for anyone to be offended), well, maybe half credit can be given to Sam since he isn't taking as many overnights. She'd have to pay a babysitter anyway on those kind of days.

Point is I would avoid the babysitter option. I think this is the wrong angle to take but certainly run it by a licensed attorney before an internet yahoo like me and see if he/she can make a case.

Remember though, marginal attorneys will tell you anything. They'll say, "Sure I can make a case." Um. . .yeah, they can. . .but is this winnable?

Remember to ask questions like, "How have previous judges ruled before?" and "What's my legal exposure on this?"

Those kind of opinions are priceless.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Affaircare,
> 
> BTW, we are all adults and allowed to have different opinions as fathers and mothers. Everyone here has been very respectful of my opinion and I am respectful of yours and this is the best forum for that.


Yeah I hope you do understand that I do respect you and your opinion. I also know you are asking Sam these questions to be sure he's doing it for the right reasons and to make him think about why he wants to do it. I do hope you realize that I ask you questions back just to make you think as well or maybe to open your eyes to some of the ways we are sort of "programmed" to assume that the kids should be with the moms. 



> Here is my opinion (and again, it's only 1)
> 
> 1. I agree with Deb as a mother (and I am a father) in that the kids should have 1 home. Now that doesn't mean perhaps there is not a summer home or a weekend home for the father but just one main home. The second home should only change when to me, the kids routine changes (as per the summer perhaps).


Ah I believe we will have to agree to disagree then. I've seen children do well in situations of Sun-Wed at school with dad, Wed pick up to Sat with mom....or one week with dad one week with mom. I've seen children do well with their one home with their father and mom gets visitation! In my opinion, children desperately need their fathers, and when the fathers "bow out" that is what harms them. As long as dad is in their life being responsible and involved in raising them on an active daily basis, that is when the harm is somewhat mitigated. 



> 2. I think the goal is for the father to remain in the kids "social orbit". That means going to sports, band concerts, taking them out on their first date. . .all the things fathers (and mothers) should be involved in.


This may be the goal that works for you and your circumstances but I don't think that would be the goal for many fathers and I don't know that it would be the kind of general goal I would promote. Honestly I would promote "Be involved with your kids every single day in every possible way you can...and more!" It is not up to the mom to decide when a father can or can not have his own children. Can you imagine a father keeping the kids and telling the mom "You can only have them on weekends"? Heck no! Hounds would howl at the door! News crews would be called! But that's what moms do every day and that's silly. It's not within their power to do so. 

So again I suspect we will have to agree to disagree. 



> With a swing shift job, that is going to be difficult enough when a concert or play or sports is during the week but maybe easier than taking a whole shift off (maybe he can leave for 2-3 hours).
> 
> Why have the pressure of finding a swing shift babysitter when it's going to be hard enough for him to just go to his kids Christmas Concert?


And what is your advice to the single-mom who is a nurse at the hospital second shift? Is she supposed to just be in her kids "social orbit" because of the hours of her job? I mean...look at how hard it is just for her to get time off to see the concert? In case you missed it Scanner, what I often do is look at a situation and just reverse the genders. If it works okay with the genders reversed it's possibly an equitable treatment without bias. But if you switch the genders and suddenly it's not an issue or "it's okay if it's a woman but not a man" then it's probably treating one of them with prejudice. 

You know as well as I do that a single-mom who's a nurse second shift could trade a few hours shift with a buddy at work to cover so she could see the play--and so could the dad. You know as well as I do that the single-mom nurse arranges for another kid on the team to carpool her child a ride to the practices and she carpools them back--so could the dad. See what I mean Scanner?



> 3. The kids should have a relationship with their father and that doesn't mean that has to begin and end with "visitation" (see above).
> 
> I am wise enough to know being in the middle of this that every divorce is remarkably different.


Right..and different things work for different people and different families and different children. It sounds like your situation works for you and your kids and your ex. It also sounds like sam's situation MOST EXTREMELY DOES NOT WORK for him and his kids and his ex. So in his situation I encourage him to continue to be equal and unbiased toward his ex but accept nothing less than 50/50...and in fact given some of the new facts he's told us he may want to go for more! 



> My intention is not to provide some makeshift "second home" for them. They have a home. My only goal is to maintain a relationship with them and then hopefully it will evolve into a second home someday as they go to college and need summer work.


Again I think we need to agree to disagree. Ideally they have a home with BOTH PARENTS. One of the parents (for reasons we won't get into) decided to think of themselves ahead of loving their children, and decided to tear apart the children's family. Part of the natural consequence the self-thinking parent experiences is that they now will have half of the time with their children taken away...or more. This is the price for breaking up the family. It is, in my mind, entirely unreasonable, to expect the children to lose a parent, and thus the necessity would be to have two households. 



> For now though, my home will be a bachelor pad. And it's not a place for my children is my philosophy. Their place is with their mother and in the home they've always known.


And just a thought...why not have dad stay in the family house and have mom move out? Why not have the kids have their stable room, school, friends they've always known...with dad?



> I am not saying my situation is right for everyone but it helps the OP to talk to different fathers to hear what the possibiities and freedoms are.
> 
> I hope you post your situation, Affaircare too for the OP's benefit.


Sure I'd be happy to! 

My Dear Hubby and I were both married before and both had children from our previous marriages. In my first marriage, my ex was diagnosed mentally ill and physically, verbally, emotionally and mentally abusive (so it wasn't a pretty picture). He cheated on me and moved out of state to live with his mistress. Our arrangement was that we lived 3 miles from one another on the same road, and we drove our kids to school. We both had 50/50 custody and decision making. The kids "home-based" with me and went to their dad's as they arranged it because he was self-employed and sometimes worked weird hours overnight...then had no hours. He had a 3 bedroom townhouse as did I, and in both homes the kids each had their own room and their own stuff. We worked it so they had essentials they kept at each house but some things like clothing, they could move back and forth as they pleased. The parent who had the children in the morning was responsible to get them to school...and sports etc. were carpooled, etc. like every other parent 

My Dear Hubby's ex also cheated on him just when she finally graduated with her Doctorate in her subject. So after years of sacrificing so she could get this degree she wanted to support the family... she left! At first she just dumped the kids on him frankly, and he worked the graveyard, so he'd put them to bed at 10pm, go to work 11pm to 7am, get home to take them to school, sleep 8am to 3pm, pick them up from school, dinner and homework, put them to bed and go to work. (This is how I know that single fathers CAN do this!  ) Then she became more active for a little in their lives and the final arrangement in the papers was the Sun-Wed drop off, Wed pick up-Sat I mentioned above. That lasted a few months until the ex moved to a big city more than an hour away, and visits then went to two weekends a month...then to one weekend. Finally she moved hours away and hasn't seen them in a while now. 

So I have personally lived and experienced all the options I've suggested. I hope this is encouraging to those considering seeking more time with their kids and more custody because it really can be done! And as always if you, Scanner, or you Sam have any questions I'm an open book--feel free to ask away!


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Now why dont I deserve the chance to FATHER equally???


I only suggest, and it's only a suggestion, that you change the your thinking from "equally" (50/50) to "equitably."

You do have the right to father "equitably."

It's like when I father my kids. . .I spend 60% of the time with the baby and 30% with the first grader and 10% with the older one. It's hardly equal. But it's "equitable" because the older has his friends and his life developing away from me. I am hoping to have him around in the summer to teach him about having a work ethic and stuff.

As Affaircare notes, it would be better if Mom and Dad just decided to stay together but for this discussion, we are assuming it's better for them you are divorcing.

The point I am trying to make (and I am not trying to thwart you - you do what you think is right) is just the same as Affaircare's - tryig to get you to think about it from a different angle.

Okay, you want to make 50/50 Plan A.

I am telling you had better have a Plan B.

My opinion - you have a 20-30% chance of selling this to a judge

Good luck.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Affaircare,

One minor point - graveyard shift is a hell of lot better than the swing shift (my second job is at a hospital).

I have noticed the moms (and dads) with children either work days or graveyard because of the reason you posted. That damn swing shift is the worst shift for a family environment. HOpefully he can get transferred to one or the other.

It's an interesting discussion and maybe not as much bias as you think. You have me, a father, advocating the mother's position (with Deb, a mother) and 2 fathers and a mother (you) advocating the father's position.

I think we all agree that anything is possible but unfortunately if it comes to blows, it's only what a judge thinks is what matters.

And thanks for sharing. . .my life is an open book too but I won't bore the forum. (yours wasn't boring but I have yapped long enough  )

You do realize that your story is a lot different than this one though? In your case, you had a mother who was marginal and slowly withdrawing from parenting, not even interested in remaining in her kids social orbit as time progressed.

I am assuming for discussion case we have a committed mother and father and a judge is looking at the situation as thus.

And BTW, I never assumed that a mother *should* get the house. . .I have just found it's usually the man who exits stage right. That may be a tactical error I made if I had wanted to keep the house and kids.

I hope Sam considers "in service days, minor holidays, summers" as a Plan B.


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## sam (Jul 2, 2009)

Thats fine, and i respect your opinion and your choice of parenting plan. But for me, that wont work. 

If i knew that I only had a 1% chance of getting shared custody, I would still seek it, if you dont try, failure is guaranteed. If a judge hears us out and gives me her 80-20 custody, i guess thats that, at least I fought for it. 

My wife and I didnt work out, for that I am very sorry. I wont give up my girls though, They need me, they are my everything and I want to be there and be a big part of their lives and help them grow into adulthood. 

I dont know, Maybe I am going to fail, maybe my wife will get her custody request and I will be the weekend dad, but to me that sucks. From everything I read, kids need both parents in as much quantity as possible


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Sam,

Good luck with your Plan A. No one is asking to "give up" your girls. I know that's what it feels like but even if it was 100/0 with parenting, you will always have "joint legal custody" - you are only trying to work out the physical custody. That's the difference (just a primer for anyone reading). You could never see the kids and your wife would still have to consult you on medical decisions and schooling and such. 

So try to get it out of your head that by even going 4 weekends/month you are "giving them up."

Trust me - she's going to want help. She's going to be asking for you for help soon enough.

Let me suggest you have some Plan B's, C's and D's.

Plan B I outlined above.

Here's another option. This worked for a medical assistant that works for me. She has the kids M-F and the father has the kids *every *weekend. Maybe that's a possibility. My CMA wants to be able to go out on the weekends and he's content to just have his son around on the weekend. 

People may judge her for this but it works for them.

Plan D - don't forget summers. Every summer every parent is trying to scramble to figure out what to do. Remember that school takes up the majority of their day anyway. You get every day with them in the summer til 4 p.m.

Good luck.


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