# Wife playing hard to get



## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Firstly im the type of person who never gives up so I always try and try again.

Im 25 shes 23, married 4 yrs with 2 kids.
Went through a rough spot in our marriage earlier this year but seem to be better now then ever before.

The problem is sex, we average 3 times a month at best, always me initiating.

Last time i tried was the typical situation, my brother is staying a few nights a week for work so she doesnt want to do anything those nights once those nights were over it was her time of the month, so I was patiently waiting and i made sure she knew how turned on she makes me etc.
So her time finished and after work we were doing looots of foreplay, she was begging me to get into the real thing, i was literally just about to when she said no no we shouldnt, and that she really wanted a shower first and wel do it after the kids go to bed.
I said that i didnt want to wait because we always end up not doing it.
She assured me that no we would have a shower together then do it.
So after our shower we are in bed winding down watching a movie and its getting late so i say we should stop the movie for abit and carry on later she says no and assures me she wont be too tired after the movie so we finish the movie.

We start cuddling which is how sex normally starts for us, first shes in this silly mood which its impossoble to have sex with her in, then she starts nodding off, I keep her awake and she says oh woops i almost fell asleep, so i start moving my hand on hip and she keeps flinching and moving away,
Then she asks what i want, i say that i want her, and she acts like she had no clue and starts saying well i was being annoying with my hand and she didnt know i wanted sex, she started getting comfy to go to sleep so i said oh are you going to sleep? And she says "oh ye okay then, im going to sleep" and that i had ruined our chance for sex by being annoying in the way i touched her and we wernt going to have sex now because i had though she was wanting to sleep.
By the time all this c**p is over its half past midnight, id been up since 6 and been at work and she just goes to sleep like its nothing.

So there is my typical sex situation.
thank you to anyone who reads and understands


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

She's playing you buddy. Something else is going on.

I thought a short answer here is best.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> She's playing you buddy. Something else is going on.
> 
> I thought a short answer here is best.


Thanks.
I confronted her this morning and she blew up because she didnt think it was a big deal, she was scrolling fb 90% of the time i was talking to her.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

What was the rough spot you went through?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DTG said:


> Thanks.
> I confronted her this morning and she blew up because she didnt think it was a big deal, she was scrolling fb 90% of the time i was talking to her.


Hopefully you can find out some more.

Don't really go by her words, it's her actions you observe that will guide you.

Don't interrogate her, she'll only clam up, take anything dishonest underground.


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## StillGoing (Dec 9, 2020)

There's definitely something odd going on. Just the fact that she's ignoring you while you're trying to have a serious conversation is a problem by itself. Is it possible to have a conversation without distractions? Don't be too aggressive about it (even if you have a right to, it simply doesn't work), but you both need to talk and there's no talking during facebook-scrolling.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

you may have to go into investigation mode


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm impatient today and didn't read the whole opening post. It looks like it is time for you to learn the power of NO.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Go read "Conrad"s thread on Fitness Tests. 

I don't think you're facing any sort of crisis here, I think she' testing you, she wants you to be a certain way because she has an emotional need for you that you're not presently filling.

You know the old story, "we were traveling the road and then we came to a fork in the road and had to decide which road to take." Well, you faced a decision fork at the moment she stopped you and talked about showering. You gave up. Boy, that was the wrong road to take because you ceded all veto-power to her. You could have taken her to the shower right then and there and then taken her in the shower.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

You have a few problems that will interfere with a good sex life. 
1. A wife who doesn't seem to make it anywhere near the top of her priority list.
2. 2 very young kids.
3. Your brother staying with you a few nights a week.

Your wife is uncomfortable having sex with your brother in the house. If he's there 3 nights a week thats a reduction in nights sex is even possible of 42.85%. Then there is the kids depending on the day she is probably mentally spent at least a couple days a week and can't get herself in a mental space where sex is even a thought. So now you're down to 2 nights a week that are at all possible. With your wife's lack of interest generally you end up with 3 times a month. 

The biggest problem is your wife's attitude. If she is dismissive of sex at 23 thats a big problem and a bad sign for the future. 

Your brother staying with you is another big problem. Unless this is just a short term thing for a few weeks. If it is interfering with your relationship it's a problem. 

Kids are kids your sex life takes a hit when you have small kids. No way around that one. 

If the situation with your brother is an ongoing thing you need to figure out a way to alter that situation.

You need to get to the bottom of your wife's attitude. It might just be exhaustion from dealing with the babies it's probably a bunch of different things. Start with the fact that her dismissive attitude towards sex = a dismissive attitude towards you. One thing to keep in mind at your ages your both still pretty young. Most 23 year olds will not easily look at a situation through another persons eyes. At that age we are still pretty self centered in relationships.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> You have a few problems that will interfere with a good sex life.
> 1. A wife who doesn't seem to make it anywhere near the top of her priority list.
> 2. 2 very young kids.
> 3. Your brother staying with you a few nights a week.
> ...


Items 2 and 3 are non-concetns if a couple mutually want to have a close relationship.

Even a plus at times to have the brother watch the kids as needed.

Frees up a lot of Mom and Dad time.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Items 2 and 3 are non-concetns if a couple mutually want to have a close relationship.
> 
> Even a plus at times to have the brother watch the kids as needed.
> 
> Frees up a lot of Mom and Dad time.


I would typically agree but if sex is a stated no go with the brother in the house, which is understandable to an extent, and it's an ongoing thing with no end in site, it slides into the problem category IMO.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I would typically agree but if sex is a stated no go with the brother in the house, which is understandable to an extent, and it's an ongoing thing with no end in site, it slides into the problem category IMO.


Which is not, very much not a valid reason. If the couple mutually want to have a close physical relationship.

We're not talking about all of them sharing a one bedroom place.

It's a little ludicrous to think it's remotely near a valid reason.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> Go read "Conrad"s thread on Fitness Tests.
> 
> I don't think you're facing any sort of crisis here, I think she' testing you, she wants you to be a certain way because she has an emotional need for you that you're not presently filling.
> 
> You know the old story, "we were traveling the road and then we came to a fork in the road and had to decide which road to take." Well, you faced a decision fork at the moment she stopped you and talked about showering. You gave up. Boy, that was the wrong road to take because you ceded all veto-power to her. You could have taken her to the shower right then and there and then taken her in the shower.


Thank you thats very helpful


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

re16 said:


> What was the rough spot you went through?











Emotional affair plus confusion


Hello all. Im a young husband seeking an ear to hear and to listen to any advice. We have been together 6 years and married 4 years and have two daughters 2yo and 9month old. Ive neglected my wife emotionaly due to stresses of work and having the children, ive always been abit insecure...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com




Hopefully that link works


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DTG said:


> Emotional affair plus confusion
> 
> 
> Hello all. Im a young husband seeking an ear to hear and to listen to any advice. We have been together 6 years and married 4 years and have two daughters 2yo and 9month old. Ive neglected my wife emotionaly due to stresses of work and having the children, ive always been abit insecure...
> ...


Good link.

Interesting. Maybe it's just ongoing. Adds context though. 

OP, either way, can you share more details of you're comfortable doing so? Why the ongoing?


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## Nailhead (Sep 21, 2020)

So your wife is contending with 2 kids, a home to take care of among other things and well, sex is all secondary. Tell me, what is your W day to day like? What are you doing to assist with the kids and home upkeep? Oh, and lets kick in your brother in the house. I'm not much for mixing it up while family is in our home. You got your brother there 3 days a week? You also mentioned your wife would like to shower before sex. I don't blame her. Did I miss anything? Your wife is....tired. Do yourself a favor, send your brother home. Crashing 3 days a week at your homne is not working. Second, stop and think about your W day. Maybe just maybe she is tired.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

DTG said:


> Emotional affair plus confusion
> 
> 
> Hello all. Im a young husband seeking an ear to hear and to listen to any advice. We have been together 6 years and married 4 years and have two daughters 2yo and 9month old. Ive neglected my wife emotionaly due to stresses of work and having the children, ive always been abit insecure...
> ...


So that clears up a lot. This is tough to hear, but she is not into you and lost attraction to you.

When you let her get away with that behavior, she further lost respect for you.

This is not going to get better.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I just read your other thread. This is obviously about a lot more than her not making sex a priority. Sounds like she’s not interested in you beyond roommate status.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

Hmm. Hard to guess what is exactly going on but enough information has been provided that your marriage has serious problems. If you can find a good MC that will get you and her to truthfully talk about the marital issues, without making any judgment calls, that would be quite helpful. Looks like she has engaged in conduct close to an emotional affair with these two guys. Highly inappropriate. Has it gone physical? Only your wife knows. The fact your wife doesn't want sex with you is not a good sign. Maybe in therapy, all will be revealed. If she refuses to go to MC, you go see someone separately. Good luck to you. I hope things turn out well, but it will require work by both of you. No more rug sweeping.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Which is not, very much not a valid reason. If the couple mutually want to have a close physical relationship.
> 
> We're not talking about all of them sharing a one bedroom place.
> 
> It's a little ludicrous to think it's remotely near a valid reason.


I wouldn't want to have sex with my wife with my sisters in the next room. I mean if it was a forced long term situation situation and there was no other options you gotta do what you gotta do. But I can understand the wife's position on that. I would never let anyone live with my family long term. It's disruptive to the family in general. If it's for a month or two to help them get on their feet thats one thing, but moving someone in half the week and expect the dynamics of the household to not be affected is unrealistic. I would say bro I love ya but you're an adult now. Time to figure out how to be a big boy. I mean you can't have deep relationship conversations with your brother sitting on the couch next to you.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

She’s making every excuse not to have sex and your falling for it.
Everyone knows men need to have sex. There are times when I don’t want to have sex but I’m willing to have a quickie so my guy can at least get his fix. It takes minimal effort on my part. Of course I am doing this probably 10% of the time because I usually always am down for sex. 

You should of had sex in the shower. 

My unpopular opinion... that’s your wife, you have to have Sex with her. 3x a month is not a lot. If her complaint is that she is too tired bc of the kids, and needs more help around the house etc then that needs to be addressed. But it doesn’t sound like that’s the problem. It sounds like she just doesn’t want to have sex with you.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

It sure sounds like the behavior of someone who wants to tell you "no" without the confrontation of saying the words. She quite clearly has no interest in sex with you and is finding every avenue to avoid it short of ending the marriage. 

I think.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Read the other thread folks, only months ago she was in mulitple EAs and having phone sex with her ex (she did at least lock the door when she was doing this) and she didn't see a problem with it and telling the OP how pathetic he is.

This is not about her not wanting to have sex with him, it is about why he thinks it is even plausible to have a real relationship with this woman.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I wouldn't want to have sex with my wife with my sisters in the next room. I mean if it was a forced long term situation situation and there was no other options you gotta do what you gotta do. But I can understand the wife's position on that. I would never let anyone live with my family long term. It's disruptive to the family in general. If it's for a month or two to help them get on their feet thats one thing, but moving someone in half the week and expect the dynamics of the household to not be affected is unrealistic. I would say bro I love ya but you're an adult now. Time to figure out how to be a big boy. I mean you can't have deep relationship conversations with your brother sitting on the couch next to you.


Why wouldn't you want to have sex with your sisters in the next room?

Do you think they don't know happily married couples have sex?

Are they /you children, afraid of someone knowing you have sex with your wife of many years? This is a case of get over thinking others don't have better things to do than dwelling on what you're doing. 

Kindly and not meant as snarky just real life, it's kind of self centered to think they're concerned about what you're doing to this extent. 

They already know you've had sex before. It's old news.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I wouldn't want to have sex with my wife with my sisters in the next room. I mean if it was a forced long term situation situation and there was no other options you gotta do what you gotta do. But I can understand the wife's position on that. I would never let anyone live with my family long term. It's disruptive to the family in general. If it's for a month or two to help them get on their feet thats one thing, but moving someone in half the week and expect the dynamics of the household to not be affected is unrealistic. I would say bro I love ya but you're an adult now. Time to figure out how to be a big boy. I mean you can't have deep relationship conversations with your brother sitting on the couch next to you.


If you wanted alone time to talk with your wife on the couch, why in the world don't you think it's ok to tell your brother to watch tv in his room or similar? 

I truly don't understand why adults are afraid to talk as adults to adult family.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I think the OP needs to respond to some of these comments.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

First I want to know a little bit more of what the "rough spot" was earlier in the year? ​​As with all the threads like this the first questions I always ask here with threads like this man or woman is this what kind of shape are you in? Has it changed dramatically? This could be physically or your emotional connection. If you have let yourself go, fix that. With men it seems I have to ask how much work is she doing around the house? She is not your de-facto Mommy right, telling you to do your chores and having to remind you to get your **** done? If she is fix that. How much energy do you spend on her emotionally? Is it's more then your hobbies, for for instance, such as gaming, or the sports teams you follow, even your job? These are all things that can turn wives off. I will tell you what I tell all men as well just in general problems or not - lift weights. You will get it once you start to do it. One of the best things I ever did and it has the extra bonus of making you more attractive to your wife. Physical appearance while important, may not be as important to women as it is to men, but lifting weights is like a power up even if she is attracted already.​​​


Lance Mannion said:


> I don't think you're facing any sort of crisis here, I think she' testing you, she wants you to be a certain way because she has an emotional need for you that you're not presently filling.​​


​​I agree, this is a distinct possibility. I would also like to know is your only pursuit of her you basically complaining that you saying you want to have sex more? You understand that most women's pathway into being in the moon is emotionally right? What is your emotional connection to her? Do you pursue her emotionally? Do you flirt with her? Do you let her know how attracted to her you are, in whatever way she best responds to that? Meaning some women want to hear they are hot, just like that. Some women want flowers. I think it's best to do both, and often without even a thought to sex. ​​More then that though, I think what most men don't understand is a lot of times wives just want to hear - thank you. Or hey "I see you are tired, go sit down I will do the dishes", then if your smart you add "by the way you may be tired, but damn are you hot". Then do the dishes and sweep the floor for good measure. The point is your job is to understand what is important to her and show her it is important to you. You are her problem solver. Constantly do that and if she is a good women who at one point was emotionally bonded to you, she will get there again. ​​Once you get that emotional connection going where she feels safe and appreciates you find her attractive and that doesn't automatically mean she has to be on her back like it's a chore. When she really feels like you are close, only then can you be more flirty and maybe even blunt about how much you want her. She will probably enjoy that. She will be much more open to helping you out even if she isn't in the mood. Particularly is she trusts you enough that she knows you are a team and you are not using her to get off. ​​Which leads to the next point. Is the sex good for her? The better it is for her the more she is going to want to do it. Figure out how to make it good.​​This is a common problem in marriage. Wives feel like their husband uses them to get off. Often they feel that way because it's true. If your wife had a particularly hard day or she is excited about something and she goes to you her primary relationship, and you ignore her because of some particularly exciting session of Fortnite, why would she think any different. You care more about Fortnite, you just want to get off. ​​The other reason is that I don't think a lot of Women truly understand Male desire and what sex means to our emotional well being and also how it really is a starting point to our emotional connections to our wives. Frankly we have done a terrible time teaching this, for a myriad of reasons which can be discussed some other time. We have also all done a good job of abusing what at it's best is a wonderful thing about sex, and husband and wives. You need to show her this, but you have to do it in good faith. ​​Finally she could just be an asshole. Hell most women who cheat and get caught quickly try to use sex to try to get their men back, so they obviously know how it works for us. ​​Now if you got all that down then when she blows you off do you get angry? A better tact is to ignore and detach from her. Then presuming she cares enough to ask why that is when you tell her you are starting to no longer feel emotionally attached to her because of your lack of intimacy, say it like that, unemotional an matter of fact. Having a temper tantrum about this stuff never works. A good rule of thumb is to never show your wife you are out of control, ever if you can help it. Women are attracted to strength, that is not just physical, it means emotional strength, and even strength of will.​​Which is why she very well might be testing you, but it may be in more like, in your example you should have took her in the shower, not waited until you were both in bed. Maybe she doesn't want a bunch of negotiation maybe she want's passion, just be careful to read the signs, that can also go very bad. Thing is you need to be much more in touch with her emotionally and sexually to understand this. ​​I think a lot of times people think their partner is like their hand, ready whenever it's necessary and some spouses are, but most spouses need to be pursued and frankly shown that they are not taken for granted. But hand in hand with that should be showing they can't take you for granted either.​​Work on yourself first then, I try to figure out what turns her on and work with that first.​
So just read your other thread. Dude why would ever settle for so little. I am not advocating this in any way but given the rules now established by your wife why don't you just go find someone else to go have sex with, she did? I mean at least that is fair, and more realistic.

Occam's Razor. - 

Maybe she just isn't that into you, and her cheating had nothing to do with you working to hard. But she has kids with you and you support her lifestyle so she is willing to hang out until you figure it out, if you ever do. She probably knows you won't and is just biding her time until you get comfortable and less policing to start it all up again, if she isn't still doing it on the side already.

I don't get stories like this.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

sokillme said:


> First I want to know a little bit more of what the "rough spot" was earlier in the year? ​​As with all the threads like this the first questions I always ask here with threads like this man or woman is this what kind of shape are you in? Has it changed dramatically? This could be physically or your emotional connection. If you have let yourself go, fix that. With men it seems I have to ask how much work is she doing around the house? She is not your de-facto Mommy right, telling you to do your chores and having to remind you to get your **** done? If she is fix that. How much energy do you spend on her emotionally? Is it's more then your hobbies, for for instance, such as gaming, or the sports teams you follow, even your job? These are all things that can turn wives off. I will tell you what I tell all men as well just in general problems or not - lift weights. You will get it once you start to do it. One of the best things I ever did and it has the extra bonus of making you more attractive to your wife. Physical appearance while important, may not be as important to women as it is to men, but lifting weights is like a power up even if she is attracted already.​​​
> ​​I agree, this is a distinct possibility. I would also like to know is your only pursuit of her you basically complaining that you saying you want to have sex more? You understand that most women's pathway into being in the moon is emotionally right? What is your emotional connection to her? Do you pursue her emotionally? Do you flirt with her? Do you let her know how attracted to her you are, in whatever way she best responds to that? Meaning some women want to hear they are hot, just like that. Some women want flowers. I think it's best to do both, and often without even a thought to sex. ​​More then that though, I think what most men don't understand is a lot of times wives just want to hear - thank you. Or hey "I see you are tired, go sit down I will do the dishes", then if your smart you add "by the way you may be tired, but damn are you hot". Then do the dishes and sweep the floor for good measure. The point is your job is to understand what is important to her and show her it is important to you. You are her problem solver. Constantly do that and if she is a good women who at one point was emotionally bonded to you, she will get there again. ​​Once you get that emotional connection going where she feels safe and appreciates you find her attractive and that doesn't automatically mean she has to be on her back like it's a chore. When she really feels like you are close, only then can you be more flirty and maybe even blunt about how much you want her. She will probably enjoy that. She will be much more open to helping you out even if she isn't in the mood. Particularly is she trusts you enough that she knows you are a team and you are not using her to get off. ​​Which leads to the next point. Is the sex good for her? The better it is for her the more she is going to want to do it. Figure out how to make it good.​​This is a common problem in marriage. Wives feel like their husband uses them to get off. Often they feel that way because it's true. If your wife had a particularly hard day or she is excited about something and she goes to you her primary relationship, and you ignore her because of some particularly exciting session of Fortnite, why would she think any different. You care more about Fortnite, you just want to get off. ​​The other reason is that I don't think a lot of Women truly understand Male desire and what sex means to our emotional well being and also how it really is a starting point to our emotional connections to our wives. Frankly we have done a terrible time teaching this, for a myriad of reasons which can be discussed some other time. We have also all done a good job of abusing what at it's best is a wonderful thing about sex, and husband and wives. You need to show her this, but you have to do it in good faith. ​​Finally she could just be an asshole. Hell most women who cheat and get caught quickly try to use sex to try to get their men back, so they obviously know how it works for us. ​​Now if you got all that down then when she blows you off do you get angry? A better tact is to ignore and detach from her. Then presuming she cares enough to ask why that is when you tell her you are starting to no longer feel emotionally attached to her because of your lack of intimacy, say it like that, unemotional an matter of fact. Having a temper tantrum about this stuff never works. A good rule of thumb is to never show your wife you are out of control, ever if you can help it. Women are attracted to strength, that is not just physical, it means emotional strength, and even strength of will.​​Which is why she very well might be testing you, but it may be in more like, in your example you should have took her in the shower, not waited until you were both in bed. Maybe she doesn't want a bunch of negotiation maybe she want's passion, just be careful to read the signs, that can also go very bad. Thing is you need to be much more in touch with her emotionally and sexually to understand this. ​​I think a lot of times people think their partner is like their hand, ready whenever it's necessary and some spouses are, but most spouses need to be pursued and frankly shown that they are not taken for granted. But hand in hand with that should be showing they can't take you for granted either.​​Work on yourself first then, I try to figure out what turns her on and work with that first.​
> So just read your other thread. Dude why would ever settle for so little. I am not advocating this in any way but given the rules now established by your wife why don't you just go find someone else to go have sex with, she did? I mean at least that is fair, and more realistic.
> 
> I don't get stories like this.


I'm glad that you didn't just delete. Interesting thoughts.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Lance Mannion said:


> I'm glad that you didn't just delete. Interesting thoughts.


Well at least I didn't waste my time then. Serves me right for not waiting to here what the "rough spot" was. This advice won't work for OP though, not with his wife.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I'm surprised OP returned here. He knew his last thread was pertinent, but withheld it initially. He has difficulty following TAM's suggestions. Surely he sees the relationship of one to the other?

When he says he never gives up, that is an understatement. The idea of 'giving up' seems to be interrelated to 'impossibility.' No matter how badly we want something, we must realize that sometimes we cannot gain the desires of our soul no matter what. I learned this--it is hard!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

DTG said:


> Firstly im the type of person who never gives up so I always try and try again.
> 
> Im 25 shes 23, married 4 yrs with 2 kids.
> Went through a rough spot in our marriage earlier this year but seem to be better now then ever before.
> ...


Edited to ADD: You ignored her, she reacted in a way that is unacceptable. That whole situation is going to effect your sex life a lot longer than a few months.


Ok so when you got out of the shower you should have moved straight into foreplay and sex. Don't watch TV. 12:30 of course she's tired. 
I don't know about the foreplay and acting like she doesn't know. When it isn't a bad time and when you are both in a good mood try to just discuss what she likes in foreplay and how you'd like to have more sex. Ask her what she needs to be in the mood. Ask her what things turn her off or slow her down like TV and what about her hip is bothersome.

Have a conversation but at a neutral time not when you are trying to have sex with her.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You know, I just finished reading your first thread and I have got to say that for one so young, and (in your words) inexperienced, you have shown a depth of strength and character that many older and more experienced men would not be able to. By listening, understanding, seeking advice where possible and never giving up on your wife, you brought her back from the bring of oblivion (brought on by the trauma of her young life events) into a loving marital relationship - something not many of us here have managed to do. I really am impressed with you. If you have a fault, its that you take on the sins of the world as your responsibility. Still that is part of who you are. Your Christian faith may have something to do with some of it, but it is all mainly down to you.

So at this stage, do not despair. Once again, she has reasons for what she is doing and you need to be you and get to the bottom of it instead of just complaining at the lack of sex. Unlike others, I do not, in this case, agree with the approach or thinking that says something else that is fishy is going down. I agree with those that have explained her behaviour as being understandable and maybe you need to look into that.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sounds two-sided. In the link to his other post, he admits he neglected her emotionally and also that he was needy. So sounds to me like the only thing he does want from her is sex, and she knows that. 

I am worried about her habit of befriending and caretaking suicidal guys, however.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Sounds two-sided. In the link to his other post, he admits he neglected her emotionally and also that he was needy. So sounds to me like the only thing he does want from her is sex, and she knows that.
> 
> I am worried about her habit of befriending and caretaking suicidal guys, however.


So she was justified to have phone sex with her ex?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sounds to me like it's two-sided problems, that's all. Doesn't sound good.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I would typically agree but if sex is a stated no go with the brother in the house, which is understandable to an extent, and it's an ongoing thing with no end in site, it slides into the problem category IMO.


here’s my thing. If a woman and a man WANT to have sex, there’s nothing that can keep them from it. Brother there? Ducking please. That’s ridiculous and simply yet another excuse to dodge.

I wiuid literally drop her like a bad habit and not care what anyone thought here or otherwise. Why? Not the sex. It’s because she quite plainly doesn’t give a flip whether you live or die. She doesn’t just not love you. She doesn’t even care.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Nailhead said:


> So your wife is contending with 2 kids, a home to take care of among other things and well, sex is all secondary. Tell me, what is your W day to day like? What are you doing to assist with the kids and home upkeep? Oh, and lets kick in your brother in the house. I'm not much for mixing it up while family is in our home. You got your brother there 3 days a week? You also mentioned your wife would like to shower before sex. I don't blame her. Did I miss anything? Your wife is....tired. Do yourself a favor, send your brother home. Crashing 3 days a week at your homne is not working. Second, stop and think about your W day. Maybe just maybe she is tired.


Its not this.

Not at all.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Sorry to not specificaly answer a post but i really appreciate the time taken to leave a comment.
My previous thread (which i should have included on OP) definitely paints alot of the picture, what i do want to say is that alot has changed since then.

Ive become self employed which is a big step forward and im leading more in the marriage, relationship wise we work together and communicate much better, the sex is the only part which i dont understand.
I wonder if its trauma related......

For those who ask about her work load i can honestly say that i do more then half the house work ontop of my dailly work.
She used to do about 10% of it so its an improvement.

I gave her the option to work part time which she does.

Lastly yes i am a pushover but im trying to change myself the best i can so i do appreciate the advice


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DTG said:


> Sorry to not specificaly answer a post but i really appreciate the time taken to leave a comment.
> My previous thread (which i should have included on OP) definitely paints alot of the picture, what i do want to say is that alot has changed since then.
> 
> Ive become self employed which is a big step forward and im leading more in the marriage, relationship wise we work together and communicate much better, the sex is the only part which i dont understand.
> ...


So she works part time and does less than half of the housework, and she used to do 10%.....geez.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Livvie said:


> So she works part time and does less than half of the housework, and she used to do 10%.....geez.


I agree. What a deal.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

With regard to sex, what is there not to understand. She’s not interested. Could that change? Maybe. But so often it does not. You’re very young to be dealing with a lifetime of that.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

manfromlamancha said:


> You know, I just finished reading your first thread and I have got to say that for one so young, and (in your words) inexperienced, you have shown a depth of strength and character that many older and more experienced men would not be able to. By listening, understanding, seeking advice where possible and never giving up on your wife, you brought her back from the bring of oblivion (brought on by the trauma of her young life events) into a loving marital relationship - something not many of us here have managed to do. I really am impressed with you. If you have a fault, its that you take on the sins of the world as your responsibility. Still that is part of who you are. Your Christian faith may have something to do with some of it, but it is all mainly down to you.
> 
> So at this stage, do not despair. Once again, she has reasons for what she is doing and you need to be you and get to the bottom of it instead of just complaining at the lack of sex. Unlike others, I do not, in this case, agree with the approach or thinking that says something else that is fishy is going down. I agree with those that have explained her behaviour as being understandable and maybe you need to look into that.


Honestly i just fell in love with an amazing person who ticks so many boxes, only later did her past unravel.
I would never leave someone because they were damaged as a child.
I may be weak but Im no coward, she can leave but if the whole world gave up on her i never will, it is for better or for worse.
With that being said im narrow minded and so i come on here for a kick up the backside.

Thank you for the encouragment


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Openminded said:


> With regard to sex, what is there not to understand. She’s not interested. Could that change? Maybe. But so often it does not. You’re very young to be dealing with a lifetime of that.


I dont understand the fact that she will quite often bring up the subject as in that we need to make more time for sex but it just seems bottom of her list


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

sunsetmist said:


> I'm surprised OP returned here. He knew his last thread was pertinent, but withheld it initially. He has difficulty following TAM's suggestions. Surely he sees the relationship of one to the other?
> 
> When he says he never gives up, that is an understatement. The idea of 'giving up' seems to be interrelated to 'impossibility.' No matter how badly we want something, we must realize that sometimes we cannot gain the desires of our soul no matter what. I learned this--it is hard!


I do see the corrolation, however there is progress in every other area except sex, i know Im stubborn, thats why im back so i dont slack off any progress


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Imagine if the abuse was physical? To paraphrase some of the advice in that context it would be like people posting - Man you sure can take a punch, but you deserve it.

The only kind of abuse that gets treated this way is emotional abuse, and almost always it's the guy getting abused. The men who cheat or louses and dogs, to most people, one things for sure you never hear excuses about the men like you do with the women, "these wives were were just neglected, poor things", and it's always the other men giving them a pass.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

DTG said:


> I dont understand the fact that she will quite often bring up the subject as in that we need to make more time for sex but it just seems bottom of her list


You’re focusing on her words and not on her actions. Words are always the easy part. I might say I need to make more time for exercise (which I do) but if it’s really that important then I’ll do it and not just say it. There‘s a disconnect between what she’s saying and what she’s doing. Is it permanent? That’s the unknown factor for now. She needs to know you expect to see her words and actions line up.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OP, I don't believe you were a bad husband, considering what you are willing to put up with. I think your wife cheated because she is not moral. I suspect she will be cheating on you again within a few years if she isn't already. 

It's in her nature.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Sounds to me like it's two-sided problems, that's all. Doesn't sound good.


Ok, yes it is two sided, side one - a mountain, side two - a mole hill...


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Sounds two-sided. In the link to his other post, he admits he neglected her emotionally and also that he was needy. So sounds to me like the only thing he does want from her is sex, and she knows that.
> 
> I am worried about her habit of befriending and caretaking suicidal guys, however.


The key word is was. I definitely dont mope around wanting sex, its only in situations like i described that i get annoyed.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

sokillme said:


> OP, I don't believe you were a bad husband, considering what you are willing to put up with. I think your wife cheated because she is not moral. I suspect she will be cheating on you again within a few years if she isn't already.
> 
> It's in her nature.


She definitely has unmoral tendancies when she is emotionaly unstable


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Openminded said:


> You’re focusing on her words and not on her actions. Words are always the easy part. I might say I need to make more time for exercise (which I do) but if it’s really that important then I’ll do it and not just say it. There‘s a disconnect between what she’s saying and what she’s doing. Is it permanent? That’s the unknown factor for now. She needs to know you expect to see her words and actions line up.


I need to hold her more accountable and also make sure I dont get suckered into silly games


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

sokillme said:


> Imagine if the abuse was physical? To paraphrase some of the advice in that context it would be like people posting - Man you sure can take a punch, but you deserve it.
> 
> The only kind of abuse that gets treated this way is emotional abuse, and almost always it's the guy getting abused. The men who cheat or louses and dogs, to most people, one things for sure you never hear excuses about the men like you do with the women, "these wives were were just neglected, poor things", and it's always the other men giving them a pass.


Unfortunately the way things are.
I do believe most marriage problems and world problems are down to the failure of men to lead by example but its gotten way too hypocritical, and also the influence of hollywood and social media potraying a fake picture of love and relationships has also done a good job at making wives feel unfulfilled and entitled


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DTG said:


> Sorry to not specificaly answer a post but i really appreciate the time taken to leave a comment.
> My previous thread (which i should have included on OP) definitely paints alot of the picture, what i do want to say is that alot has changed since then.
> 
> Ive become self employed which is a big step forward and im leading more in the marriage, relationship wise we work together and communicate much better, the sex is the only part which i dont understand.
> ...


Tada!!

Great news! You should have a coming out party as soon as a non-home venue is available.
Invite friends not business associates this time, until your W becomes able to only be an asset at a business gathering not one you'd be worried about her showing any negativity.

It's been good to see this progress.
We all need progress in areas in all our lives so your among friends in that manner.

You're having some eye opening moments too, I can see, all good, positive ones I might add, just si you know you're doing great!

I see your W works part time. You should not be doing 1/2 of the household cleaning and cooking. Just not. You should be doing 10% or less, until she's wholly your partner, sex included, then as a team you can help with that a bit more here and there....only when she's helping beside you as you help. 

And whatever her stated reason is for no sex, remember it's not you. You may want to do less home chores.

Concentrate on your work, with time spent showing you care for W of course. But not by doing housework to try and earn sex.

More to come.

It's truly great to hear you're doing better!!

Ragnar


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

You say things are great, apart from sex, but sex is the relationship's barometer. You neglected her emotionally and she's detached. You are not going to get her back. Her behaviour about sex is a clear indication. She doesn't want you. They are all excuses. You really need to have a serious talk with her, to see if your marriage is worth saving. Good luck!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> You say things are great, apart from sex, but sex is the relationship's barometer. You neglected her emotionally and she's detached. You are not going to get her back. Her behaviour about sex is a clear indication. She doesn't want you. They are all excuses. You really need to have a serious talk with her, to see if your marriage is worth saving. Good luck!


I doubt he's neglected her emotionally. I really do. He's crossed that bridge. She's no child at this point and needs to put on her big girl panties and act like a supportive wife.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I doubt he's neglected her emotionally. I really do. He's crossed that bridge. She's no child at this point and needs to put on her big girl panties and act like a supportive wife.


That's what he said in the first thread. Women do not forget. Small children and he's working long hours, neglecting her emotionally too? Recipe for a disaster, if you ask me. I'm not condoning her behaviour (like the EA), but she seems a damaged person to me. He didn't support her and now he wants her to support him? Sex, sex, sex. The downfall of men... with small kids, etc... no surprise she doesn't want it. To me, it sounds she is not into him any more.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Let's not forget this wife has TWO toddlers. I'd give her a break on the housework.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> That's what he said in the first thread. Women do not forget. Small children and he's working long hours, neglecting her emotionally too? Recipe for a disaster, if you ask me. I'm not condoning her behaviour (like the EA), but she seems a damaged person to me. He didn't support her and now he wants her to support him? Sex, sex, sex. The downfall of men... with small kids, etc... no surprise she doesn't want it. To me, it sounds she is not into him any more.


She definitely may not be into him anymore I agree.

It being his fault ad nauseam, no.

He's growing, improving. The kids aren't infants. The W is apparently stagnant in trying to improve her relationship with her H, her actions speak for themselves.

Sadly she may get her wishes because after @DTG gets poked in the eye no matter what he does for too long, like a whipped dog will break from his leash and leave her.

As he should.

I hope she matures and the M gets better.

But the longer she doesn't put in honest well rounded efforts things only loosen until she really should be left to her own life.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But the longer she doesn't put in honest well rounded efforts things only loosen until she really should be left to her own life.


I doubt she will. The ship has sailed. She will do the minimum to stay married (controlling their sex life) until the kids are older. Do you blame her? Who is going to divorce with 2 toddlers?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Let's not forget her home is invaded several days a week by a relative. Relatives are like fish - they stink after 3 days. Her weeks are like groundhog day.

That nonsense she is doing with sex is a passive-aggressive way to display her displeasure with her life. She can't control the situation with the brother; but, she can make him pay for it.

Just another angle from which to view the situation.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I doubt she will. The ship has sailed. She will do the minimum to stay married (controlling their sex life) until the kids are older. Do you blame her? Who is going to divorce with 2 toddlers?


He will, sooner than later. He'll ride it out until something snaps.

It's much much better splitting that two parents raising kids that learn horrible lessons from two hostile parents. 

This from personal experience and many lifelong friends, and today's 10 yr plus friends.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Let's not forget her home is invaded several days a week by a relative. Relatives are like fish - they stink after 3 days. Her weeks are like groundhog day.
> 
> That nonsense she is doing with sex is a passive-aggressive way to display her displeasure with her life. She can't control the situation with the brother; but, she can make him pay for it.
> 
> Just another angle from which to view the situation.


Invaded several days a week? 

If a W thinks she can make a husband pay for things by withholding sex then she'll soon be alone in her hostility. 

Guaranteed.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's much much better splitting that two parents raising kids that learn horrible lessons from two hostile parents.


She is not being hostile... she is not very keen on sex with someone she doesn't respect. She will play her cards well to remain married. I don't think she has many options.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> *Invaded several days a week?*
> 
> If a W thinks she can make a husband pay for things by withholding sex then she'll soon be alone in her hostility.
> 
> Guaranteed.


What do you call it?

Agree with your second point.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> What do you call it?
> 
> Agree with your second point.



Ok, let's look at the brother detail, we're told:

my brother is staying a few nights a week for work

Ok, the brother is staying there in the evenings let's call it 3 to 4 nights. Not during the day, brother is working, sounds like working with @DTG . Even if not working with dtg, he's not there for the day or 24-7.

Big difference than a couch bum not working. The W is NOT waiting on either H or brother hand and foot, by NO means. I guarantee you she's not washing clothes for the brother, maybe not even her H.

How is this an invasion in HER home?

Dtg does much of the home chores, he states the W does about 10%. While mind you he's working daily self employed.

She's working part time. So she's not watching the kids all the time.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> How is this an invasion in HER home?


Because she lives there? Seriously, I don't get why you don't understand the lack of privacy and family time. It's her home and she isn't running a hotel. Unless, the brother has an exterior entrance and doesn't step foot in her living space; then, he is invading her privacy.

For all we know, she might just luv, luv, luv the brother and luvs, luvs, luvs having him around. I wouldn't bank on it, though.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

DTG said:


> Unfortunately the way things are.
> I do believe most marriage problems and world problems are down to the failure of men to lead by example but its gotten way too hypocritical, and also the influence of hollywood and social media potraying a fake picture of love and relationships has also done a good job at making wives feel unfulfilled and entitled


Adultery is a character issue though. Besides there are plenty of men who lead just fine and their wives cheat because they are selfish.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Because she lives there? Seriously, I don't get why you don't understand the lack of privacy and family time. It's her home and she isn't running a hotel. Unless, the brother has an exterior entrance and doesn't step foot in her living space; then, he is invading her privacy.
> 
> For all we know, she might just luv, luv, luv the brother and luvs, luvs, luvs having him around. I wouldn't bank on it, though.


Is it not his home too?

The premise is that she's so, so, soooo put upon by one adult family member, who's working, there temporarily.

If it was her sister, don't believe for a second it wouldn't be a different story, with H to be accommodating with a smile or at least not so devastated he would tell his W no sex or pick your item, to her.

And in a ltr, over the course of years, temp help to courteous, appreciative, helpful nuclear family member is NOT a one off, it can happen.

It's not like the brother and H are teaming up against W.

Over and over @DTG states he's very helpful around the house and helps with kids.

DTG is working for the family future.

When will W grow up?
Have you never helped a responsible family member through a hard time, never ever?

Or been helped by your family?

Do you agree she should withhold sex because the brother is there?

If you say yes, we're way too far apart on this.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> She is not being hostile... she is not very keen on sex with someone she doesn't respect. She will play her cards well to remain married. I don't think she has many options.


And if this is true she should live out her beliefs and flat out tell H she's leaving him and go ahead.

She'd probably have to move in with her family or a family member. 

What a concept.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

None of this will matter when she cheats again, and she will. What has she done to fix herself, nothing after all this is all OP's fault remember?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> And if this is true she should live out her beliefs and flat out tell H she's leaving him and go ahead.


Why? She has her cake and she is eating it... I think she is - consciously or not - still punishing him for what he's done to her in the past...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Let's not forget her home is invaded several days a week by a relative. Relatives are like fish - they stink after 3 days. Her weeks are like groundhog day.
> 
> That nonsense she is doing with sex is a passive-aggressive way to display her displeasure with her life. She can't control the situation with the brother; but, she can make him pay for it.
> 
> Just another angle from which to view the situation.


Yeah kind of like the guy who has a hard day at work and then goes home and screams at his family for it. Just passive-aggressively displaying his displeasure with his life after all. You know nonsense like that. After he works hard at work.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Why? She has her cake and she is eating it... I think she is - consciously or not - still punishing him for what he's done to her in the past...


I don't agree, she should have no problem finding someone else to support her, after all what guy doesn't want a young women with two young children by some other man? /s


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I don't agree, she should have no problem finding someone else to support her, after all what guy doesn't want a young women with two young children by some other man? /s


I like your sense of humor... this is exactly why she doesn't want a divorce.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> Why? She has her cake and she is eating it... I think she is - consciously or not - still punishing him for what he's done to her in the past...


That's her plan, to remain a cake eater, you're right.

The only thing do to is to remove said cake from her life, and force her to embrace her beliefs and make her move out from where she's so unhappy to help her live her desires.


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## StillGoing (Dec 9, 2020)

All in all, the issue is really hard to fix with the brother there all the time. I'd start by removing that first.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> The only thing do to is to remove said cake from her life, and force her to embrace her beliefs and make her move out from where she's so unhappy to help her live her desires.


Do you think the OP is really going to do this?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why wouldn't you want to have sex with your sisters in the next room?
> 
> Do you think they don't know happily married couples have sex?
> 
> ...


Yah I get that and if for some odd reason there was no other choice I would, but I guess my wife and I are kind of odd in how independent we are from our families. We're just very private i guess. I guess it's never really happened because we would never allow a situation where someone was living with us. If a family member or friend came on hard times and needed our guest room for a few nights fine. But anything beyond that grow up buttercup and get your stuff together.


Evinrude58 said:


> here’s my thing. If a woman and a man WANT to have sex, there’s nothing that can keep them from it. Brother there? Ducking please. That’s ridiculous and simply yet another excuse to dodge.
> 
> I wiuid literally drop her like a bad habit and not care what anyone thought here or otherwise. Why? Not the sex. It’s because she quite plainly doesn’t give a flip whether you live or die. She doesn’t just not love you. She doesn’t even care.





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Is it not his home too?
> 
> The premise is that she's so, so, soooo put upon by one adult family member, who's working, there temporarily.
> 
> ...


The brother living there is probably an argument that is circular. People are different in this respect, some people have no issue with it some have a big issue with it. My point is basically this. For a person who is adverse to this kind of intrusion, their mind is going to say well if Johnny is here 3 nights a week thats 3 nights I'm going to skip sex full stop. That is just how some people are, in this case leaving 4 nights open for sex. Add 2 very young kids and the craziness of that and you have reduced the possibility of sex greatly. 

The bigger problem is more the wife seeming to avoid it in general. There is no way of knowing how she really feels. Maybe she's pissed that the brother was allowed to live there maybe she's totally fine with it and using it as an excuse. We don't know. 

As far as the brother again it's not something I would allow. When you get married and have kids your nuclear family is your spouse and kids. Your mom dad and siblings become secondary family members. If it was me I would give him some money and help him find a suitable situation that would not interfere with the home front. My responsibility is as a husband and father I have no responsibility for other people besides my wife and kids. Just like no one else is responsible for my wife or my kids but me. 

Taking a job somewhere with your plan being to live/mooch off a family member to make it work is not a responsible family member IMO.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

DTG said:


> Unfortunately the way things are.
> I do believe most marriage problems and world problems are down to the failure of men to lead by example but its gotten way too hypocritical, and also the influence of hollywood and social media potraying a fake picture of love and relationships has also done a good job at making wives feel unfulfilled and entitled


I responded to this quote above but I wanted to add more to say that I believe passive men are WAY MORE likely to get cheated on. It seems like it's almost the wives are acting out or something. I think it's like a emotionally violent reaction to the disgust these wives have at their husbands weakness. It's really no surprise that most of the men who are abused the worst are the knight in shining armor types who continue to see their wives through rose colored glasses. It's a symbiotic relationship.

The other kind are the men who see their wives as week naive children and not equals. Often this dynamic has cheating in it eventually.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

@DTG how long has your brother been living with you? 

Does he work with you in your self employment activities?

Does he pay any rent, buy groceries?

Does he help around the house?

Does he have his own room as a renter?

How many days a week does he work outside the house?

Is he a kind, appreciative houseguest?

Does he and all understand his living there is temporary?

Is there a move out date targeted for him and is that on track?

Just to get some additional data.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She doesn't need sex from her husband because she is getting it elsewhere. 

And I cannot find where he said he cheated on her in the past.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I am really surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Athol Kay talks about this quite a bit in his book.

Let’s add some things up here - 

Young woman with a troubled past, poor boundaries and who married way too young is in the house with the n’er-do-well brother.

Said young woman craftily manages to avoid sex with H when brother is around but dangles enough of a carrot and manages to defuse any actual confrontation about it. 

So I have to spell this out here????????

This is a thing and it happens all the time when these betas also allow the n’er-do-well brother/cousin/buddy into the home that end up spending more time with the WW than they do.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I am really surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Athol Kay talks about this quite a bit in his book.
> 
> Let’s add some things up here -
> 
> ...


IIRC this very story played out on Reddit a while back. The wife was banging the BIL.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> IIRC this very story played out on Reddit a while back. The wife was banging the BIL.


It’s actually a lot more common than it is given credit for. 

Like I said above, Athol Kay discusses it a number of times in his book and one of the main things he recommends in his “Do Not Do!” catagory not to allow any male friend/relative/coworker etc to live in the marital home. 

It may make people cringe and not want to talk about it in polite company, but it is an actual thing and it does occur.

This is kind of like when someone turns up dead, the first suspect(s) is always those in the immediate home. 

This is similar, if it is suspected that a WW is getting entertainment elsewhere and there is another male in the home - that should be your first suspect.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> It’s actually a lot more common than it is given credit for.
> 
> Like I said above, Athol Kay discusses it a number of times in his book and one of the main things he recommends in his “Do Not Do!” catagory not to allow any male friend/relative/coworker etc to live in the marital home.
> 
> ...


Does he suggest that the danger is solely from a physical affair? I can well see a wife forming an emotional bond to the other man or simply being confused by conflicting signals, drawn to husband at THIS moment, drawn to brother at THAT moment, and then withdrawing until her feelings clear up. It could be something as simple as her need for attention being met and this dries up her sex drive. The husband goes to work all day, the brother and the wife do no more than chat and watch tv and play with the kids and go for walks, all the time chatting. Wife is emotionally satisfied.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Is it not his home too?
> Yes.
> The premise is that she's so, so, soooo put upon by one adult family member, who's working, there temporarily.
> We don't know this. It was an angle to explore.
> ...


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Ok so alot to catch up on.

So my brother is married, he stays 3 nights, he doesnt work with me but he does work 7.30am to sometimes as late as 11pm, he is very understanding of the situation as he has had borders in his house which is in another city.

It wasnt my idea to let him stay as we have each had other siblings stay who were lazy.
She said she wouldnt mind so we agreed on that at the time.

I am not the kind who mistreats women like they are inferior, i want to provide the best platform for her to study, work or do whatever, have i gotten angry at her after a long days work? Yes I used to but who wouldnt when you arrive home from work and do the cooking the dishes the lawn the vacuuming the kids baths the kids nappies and put the kids to bed.
Her outlook usually is that she needs to be happy first before she does the chores, and she would say her happiness depends on me.

Last night we had awesome sex, so only time will tell if shes just learning marriage is a two person thing or what the real issues are


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Do you think the OP is really going to do this?


The thing for me is identifying what "cake" is in my particular relationship


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Tada!!
> 
> Great news! You should have a coming out party as soon as a non-home venue is available.
> Invite friends not business associates this time, until your W becomes able to only be an asset at a business gathering not one you'd be worried about her showing any negativity.
> ...


Thanks for that, its a long road


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @DTG how long has your brother been living with you?
> 
> Does he work with you in your self employment activities?
> 
> ...


Brother has been staying for less then 2months a will be for a few more.
He has his own space and door, he does his dishes etc
The privacy is a factor but we have had sex with him staying a few weeks back


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DTG said:


> I need to hold her more accountable and also make sure I dont get suckered into silly games


You already are stuck in a game with her. She made the rules so you can never win. She cheats you stay. She doesn’t want sex with you is obvious, the question is why. What was your sex life like before she cheated on you?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DTG said:


> *have i gotten angry at her after a long days work*? Yes I used to but who wouldnt when you arrive home from work and do the cooking the dishes the lawn the vacuuming the kids baths the kids nappies and put the kids to bed.


I did all of that, getting angry and do everything around the house in the evening. Getting angry is no good, because you put your partner in a position of fear and mistrust and this will damage your marriage in the long run. What you do in the evening is normal. She works part time and looks after two toddlers. You do the rest. It sucks, but this is married life. You do get sex occasionally. This is where your marriage is at the moment. Don't push and ruin everything. Hopefully, it's just a phase.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I did all of that, getting angry and do everything around the house in the evening. Getting angry is no good, because you put your partner in a position of fear and mistrust and this will damage your marriage in the long run. What you do in the evening is normal. She works part time and looks after two toddlers. You do the rest. It sucks, but this is married life. You do get sex occasionally. This is where your marriage is at the moment. Don't push and ruin everything. Hopefully, it's just a phase.


Yes i have realised setting a tone emotionally is important, like its up to me to set the mood.

I feel ive learnt the lesson but i just have to work through mistrust in that area


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DTG said:


> I feel ive learnt the lesson but i just have to work through mistrust in that area


Good, because I learnt that too late... and I don't have a marriage now.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DTG said:


> Ok so alot to catch up on.
> 
> So my brother is married, he stays 3 nights, he doesnt work with me but he does work 7.30am to sometimes as late as 11pm, he is very understanding of the situation as he has had borders in his house which is in another city.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, and glad things appear to be improving!! 👍👍👍👍👍


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DTG said:


> Ok so alot to catch up on.
> 
> So my brother is married, he stays 3 nights, he doesnt work with me but he does work 7.30am to sometimes as late as 11pm, he is very understanding of the situation as he has had borders in his house which is in another city.
> 
> ...


@Blondilocks 

Now we're getting pertinent info.


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## DTG (Mar 30, 2020)

ABHale said:


> You already are stuck in a game with her. She made the rules so you can never win. She cheats you stay. She doesn’t want sex with you is obvious, the question is why. What was your sex life like before she cheated on you?


Sex life has always been patchy, at best it was 5 times a week when shes in a good mindset, and at least 2 or 3 times a month if shes stressing at all.
It was fine after she cheated and its slowly dropped off

Shes really picky, like, she doesnt like quickies, and she doesnt like having to keep quiet, she likes it to be the real thing.


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