# Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her



## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

I tried posting this in men's clubhouse but kept getting pop ups that kicked me off so here I am. There is some sexually explicit context in this post as an FYI before reading.

Me and my fiance have been together for around 6 years now with many bumps in the road. Most of which having to do with untreated or under treated mental disorders. 

So the story goes like this. Every few months she has a mood swings or breakdown and threatens to leave me. Me not wanting to lose her or split our family up apologize for most of the time nothing or issues that are hers not mine.

We have gone to councling discussed this among other things, it will get better for a period of time and then eventually go right back to the same thing.

It happened again the other day and this time she did not get the response she was looking for. I told her that I love her but am not happy and cannot continue to live like this and that i too thought it best if we seperated. She continued by attacking me some more before finally retreating. 

We spent a few nights in seperated rooms not speaking much unless it had to do with our daughter. In my head it's over were seperated and when things cool down we will discuss custody. She has a trip planned next month to go back home to see family and it was discussed that my daughter would stay with me but she would not be returning.

I come home from work the other day and she is acting as if nothing is wrong, trying to start conversations but I just continued with what I was doing. She said that her plan was to visit family with our daughter and then bring her back to me, leave and go swallow a bottle of pills and a bottle of liquor. I didn't ignore her but also didn't feed in to it and kept about with tending to the house she had been ignoring for several days, dishes, laundry, and taking care of our child. After getting our daughter to bed I retreated into my room.

She then texted me and asked if we were going to talk. I replied no, I need some time to think. 10 minutes later she asked if I had enough time to think and if we could talk now. Again I said no, I have been working since all this happened and need some time to process. She then came into my room anyway in tears apologizing for lashing out and over reacting and saying how she loves me and wants to work things out, which quickly led to her sucking my penis. I briefly stopped her but then she went back at it and I let it happen. She slept in my bed that night and I left early for work without seeing her in the morning.

That day she is sending me messages throughout the day checking in, something she hasn't done in years. Again I acknowledged her but didn't really talk back much either. We are short a manager at my work right now so I have been working long hours recently and wasn't due home until late. Towards the end of my night she started sending me sexy pictures. I am still on the fence about weather I want to continue this relationship because again, this is not the first time and I have a suspicion it won't be the last time that acts irrationally and uses me as her doormat. 

So I say I have a headahce I am probably just going to come home and go to bed, I was not lying I really did have a headahce. But also wanted to avoid any intamacy until I figured out where my head is at. When I got home she started a shower for me to help with the headahce, I didn't decline took a hot shower and went and laid down. She came in and started massaging my back and neck, and worked her way down to my butt, my legs, my feet. She then put a pillow under waist and thought the massage was going to continue. She then proceeded to lick my butthole. I have to say it was nice (don't knock it till you try it) (I should also say this is new, never done this before in 6 years) I knew I should stop it but I didn't and it continued, I figured it would be quick but no, she went to town damn near bringing me to orgasm. Then it was the balls that she also spend a considerable amount of time on and then again with the blowjob, a long teasing blowjob not a quick shoot your load and done one. I haven't been that relaxed in a long time and swiftly fell asleep. I woke up two hours later to her waking up my manhood and then riding me, again I fell back to sleep.

This morning I woke up with my daughter like I do most mornings that I don't open, and she also got up, out of character for her usually she will sleep for hours almost until I'm ready to leave for work. She started talking about plans for the future as if we hadn't just been sleeping in seperated rooms 3 days prior. She then started talking about some article she read and how she was going to start using it's practicing which are essentially like a housewifes guide from the 1950's designed to live to serve her husband. 

If you've some of my other posts you would understand why my head is spinning right now. This all sounds great, clean house, chipper and put together wife, happy children, dinner every night, blowjobs everynight. I assume she has just come to the realization that I am not going to just roll over and take her **** forever and this is a desperate attempt to keep me from leaving much as the suicide threat was, but how long until she goes back to her old ways. And do I want to be manipulated by her suicidal threats and overly seductive advances.

To be clear these are not things I expect out of a relationship, in fact, and again if you have seen my other posts you would know that typically I do at least half of not more of the household chores, spend almost every waking non working hour with my child, cook most of the meals for the household and bring in the sole income.

I don't know that I'm looking for advice or just venting and needing to share my experience because I don't feel comfortable sharing this story with people who know her as if we do stay together I don't want them to see her in a different light. However if anyone does have any advice I am open to hearing it.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

She's a major drama queen, and yes you know she is
manipulating you with sex.

you know it, and yet you let it go on. Dont.

she's trying to play you like a fiddle and so far it's working.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Ahh the use of sex to get what she wants, and she will act out again you know this and have to decide is this how you want your child raised.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

It does sound like she's trying to manipulate you with sex. Considering past instability, I don't see this ending well for you.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You're not married to her yet? Don't marry her. That will be the biggest mistake of your life. Sorry you find yourself here, but you're the only one who can find your way out. 

She sounds like she has a personality disorder, maybe research narcissistic personality disorder. They are all over the place, manipulative, hypersexual, threatening, etc...I'd seriously end this.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@Uptown


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Hard to tell what is happening. Yes, she could be manipulating you, just as she was doing with all the empty threats about leaving. 

But there could be a different type of dynamic here--some sort of dom/sub thing. It's almost as if she was begging for you to be stern and distant with her for all these years. When you finally became aloof and cold, she got really turned on and was ready to fulfill her submissive role as your pleaser/slave. 

In any case, it's hard to see how this would ever turn into a healthy relationship.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

That's an interesting way to look at it. And it does make sense. Thinking back that is kind of how our relationship started. It was casual based around drinking and having sex, at the time I was very clear on my position. I put it to her simply, this is who I am and wish to be, if you do not try to change me we can make a go at a relationship. Back then we got along great, sex life was good, we had fun together. But over time we had a kid, I matured a little bit and they dynamic changed and my role went from being a fun outgoing boyfriend to provider.

She even mentioned that the article that she read and was mimicking was based off of a sub/Dom type relationship with a contract involved.

At the same time, the empty threats to leave, the suicidal threats, over the top seduction all manipulation tactics.

I saw someone tag Uptown and I have been speaking to him before this post and am 90% sure she has BPD she exhibits all the traits and behaviors, she is treated for depression, anxeity, and ADHD but has also stopped seeing a counselor.

She told me about a month ago after another one of these fights where I almost ended it she was going to seek treatment and within a couple days that idea went out the window. She mentioned that other day when she was crying and apologizing she would see one, I'm curious to see if she follows through this time.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

@Farsidejunky, thanks for the call out.



Jpp3 said:


> *This all sounds great*, clean house, chipper and put together wife, happy children, dinner every night, blowjobs every night.


No, JPP, it doesn't _"sound great."_ Rather, it sounds just like the unstable, toxic mess you've been living in for the past 6 years. The sensational sex, for example, is nothing new. As you said four weeks ago (1/21 post), _"Our sex life is sporadic, we will be intimate every night sometime a few times a day for 3-5 days and then not at all for 1-3 weeks. Sometimes it's good and passionate...."_ As you said then, _"when it's good it's great, but when it's bad it's miserable."_



> We have gone to counseling discussed this among other things, it will get better for a period of time and then eventually go right back to the same thing.


If she is a BPDer -- as we discussed four weeks ago -- marriage counseling likely will be a total waste of time until that underlying issue is treated in independent counseling -- a process that usually takes several years in the very unlikely event she will remain in therapy and work hard at it.



> She mentioned that other day when she was crying and apologizing she would see [a therapist], I'm curious to see if she follows through this time.


If she will lick your butt to keep you from leaving, she certainly will be willing to see a therapist. That's the EASY part. What's HARD is getting her to go to therapy for several years (at the very least) and to work hard on acquiring the emotional skills she never had an opportunity to learn in childhood. It is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have sufficient self awareness and ego strength to be willing to do that. Instead, the BPDers who go to therapy at their spouse's insistence usually only play mind games with the therapist.

My BPDer exW, for example, went to weekly sessions with six different psychologists (and 3 MCs) for 15 years. It cost me a small fortune, an amount that was matched by my insurance carrier (because I paid half). At the end of 15 years, I realized -- when my exW had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge -- that her BPD traits had only gotten worse.



> If anyone does have any advice I am open to hearing it.


My advice, JPP, is to take the following steps:

*First*, see a psychologist to obtain a candid professional opinion on whether your fiance is exhibiting strong BPD traits as you believe. This is important because the latest study on BPD heritability indicates that, when one Parent has full-blown BPD, each child has roughly a 30% chance of developing it. (Because the few studies on heritability are all very small, their results are only suggestive of what the real figure might be.) As a responsible parent, your first action should be to determine the risk confronting your daughter. 

*Second*, consult with a family law attorney who is experienced in dealing with child custody cases involving a very vindictive parent. If your fiance is a BPDer as you suspect, the custody battle likely will get very nasty very quickly -- no matter what wonderful promises she is making now. Remember, a BPDer's perception of your intentions is distorted by whatever intense feelings she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

*Third*, start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com, which offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful are the _"Detaching from a Borderline"_ board and _"Co-Parenting after the Split"_ board.

*Fourth*, while you're at BPDfamily, read the articles: Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD and Leaving a Partner with BPD. At other websites, I recommend High Risk Parenting and Pain of Breaking Up.

*Fifth*, read an explanation of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way during our childhood. The best explanation I've found is Shari Schreiber's article, Do You Love to be Needed? Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with parents, our desire to be _needed _(for what we can do) FAR exceeds our desire to be _loved_ (for the men we already are). If you've been married to a BPDer for 6 years, you almost certainly are an excessive caregiver like me.

*Sixth*, although you suspect that your fiance has strong BPD traits, do not try to persuade her of that view. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

*Seventh,* inquire about your fiance's history of behavior during the teen years from her family members -- to find out if her BPD traits started showing strongly well before she had the drug problem. When you see the psychologist, he will want to know whether the BPD traits (e.g., impulsiveness) likely caused the drug abuse or, instead, the reverse seems true.

*Eighth*, start carrying a small VAR in your pocket whenever you are in your fiance's presence. It is important that you start collecting evidence of the way she threatens to kill herself and occasionally "flies off the handle" when upset with you or your daughter. You may need it in a custody battle to protect your daughter -- or to stay out of jail if your fiance tries to get you arrested on a bogus charge.

*Finally*, please don't forget those of us here on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Your threads already have attracted over 2,000 views.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Thank you Uptown, your advice and suggestions and shared experiences have been very helpful in helping me to understand what I am dealing with. It doesn't make it any easier to detach though. I have checked out some of those pages you recommend from one of our last talks. I perused them but didn't read through as much as I could have as life got in the way. I will check them out again. I intended to get Var previously but never got around to it but at this point I do feel I need to get one stat as I'm sure this current behavior will be gone soon only to give way to the abusive threatening behavior. Alot of these conversations have also happened through text and I do have these conversations printed and in a safe place.


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## DonaldDuck666 (Feb 20, 2017)

*Deidre* said:


> You're not married to her yet? Don't marry her. That will be the biggest mistake of your life. Sorry you find yourself here, but you're the only one who can find your way out.
> 
> She sounds like she has a personality disorder, maybe research narcissistic personality disorder. They are all over the place, manipulative, hypersexual, threatening, etc...I'd seriously end this.


No, that's not narcissistic. Sounds a lot more like Borderline Personality Disorder. The seduction, the threatening of suicide. Yeah, I've been there. It's a nightmare that never ends. GET OUT. Let her find another host to suck the life out of.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Well you seem very well aware of what is going on. So what is the matter with you then?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

DonaldDuck666 said:


> No, that's not narcissistic. Sounds a lot more like Borderline Personality Disorder. The seduction, the threatening of suicide. Yeah, I've been there. It's a nightmare that never ends. GET OUT. Let her find another host to suck the life out of.


Yea, that could be. Whatever it is, leave this toxic relationship. :frown2:


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Fear, guilt and probably some codependency


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Jpp3 said:


> Fear, guilt and probably some codependency


I've dated a few players before my fiance, and they were very manipulative, etc. The problem though was me. Co dependency isn't love, and emotional abuse isn't love. When I was growing up, my relationship with my father was not so great. He is a tough man, strict, wealthy, demanding...expected a lot from me, and to my opinion, didn't show me love. Not until nearly two years ago, did we finally mend our relationship. He apologized a lot to me, but I had to forgive him. Maybe this woman you're with reminds you of something bad in your past, in your childhood? We tend to tolerate things that are familiar. Now, that I have a loving relationship with my dad, I find that I can love others. I'm not codependent, and I'm going to get married in a few months. But, until you sort that part of yourself out, you'll stay in this toxic place. You can change this, but this woman won't change. So, maybe start there, and then hopefully, you'll realize you deserve to be LOVED. Not used. Hope this helps a little. :smile2:


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Definitely could be I certainly have some stuff from child hood that could explain how I handle situations today and where my codependency could stem from. My mother was not ready to be a mother and essentially abandoned me and my sister only to come into our lives when we were a little older and even then we only saw her during the summers. My father was an addict growing up and I spent much of my child hood either alone with my sister while my father was out using or sitting in NA rooms while he was trying to get clean. He has since become clean and done his best to make amends over the years but there was certainly some trauma that occured. I've seen someone about it all before but it was a long time ago and not for very long.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Can you detach if you finally understand she will NEVER get better, only worse? You're wishing on a unicorn; her being a decent partner is just as unrealistic. Save yourself, and save your child from having to grow up 100% in that environment.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Jpp3 said:


> Definitely could be I certainly have some stuff from child hood that could explain how I handle situations today and where my codependency could stem from. My mother was not ready to be a mother and essentially abandoned me and my sister only to come into our lives when we were a little older and even then we only saw her during the summers. My father was an addict growing up and I spent much of my child hood either alone with my sister while my father was out using or sitting in NA rooms while he was trying to get clean. He has since become clean and done his best to make amends over the years but there was certainly some trauma that occured. I've seen someone about it all before but it was a long time ago and not for very long.


This explains why you're drawn/attracted to her--her erratic behavior reflects what was "normal" in your childhood--and your ability to form an emotionally healthy attachment was compromised.

You say you were in IC for a little bit, a long time ago. I would urge you to go back and really work through all this. People who grow up in unstable environments tend to think they're ok when they're really not. (I'll raise my hand to be counted in this one.) 

And ditch this woman. She is all kinds of wrong for you.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Jpp3 said:


> So I say I have a headahce I am probably just going to come home and go to bed, I was not lying I really did have a headahce. But also wanted to avoid any intamacy until I figured out where my head is at. When I got home she started a shower for me to help with the headahce, I didn't decline took a hot shower and went and laid down. She came in and started massaging my back and neck, and worked her way down to my butt, my legs, my feet. She then put a pillow under waist and thought the massage was going to continue. She then proceeded to lick my butthole. I have to say it was nice (don't knock it till you try it) (I should also say this is new, never done this before in 6 years) I knew I should stop it but I didn't and it continued, I figured it would be quick but no, she went to town damn near bringing me to orgasm. Then it was the balls that she also spend a considerable amount of time on and then again with the blowjob, a long teasing blowjob not a quick shoot your load and done one. I haven't been that relaxed in a long time and swiftly fell asleep. *I woke up two hours later to her waking up my manhood and then riding me, again I fell back to sleep.*


I would suspect she's trying to get pregnant to entrap you again. She feels you slipping away, and she's pulling out her big guns to reel you back in again.

Do whatever you have to do to defend yourself. For now, I suggest a lock on your bedroom door.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

I may suspect that too, but she had her tubes tied after we had our daughter.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jpp3 said:


> Uptown, your advice and suggestions and shared experiences have been very helpful in helping me to understand what I am dealing with. *It doesn't make it any easier to detach though*.


JPP, as a man who took 15 years to detach from a BPDer -- far longer than the 6 years you've been trying -- I can tell you that walking away is a very painful process for excessive caregivers like us. In addition to the childhood issues you mentioned, there are several other reasons for it being so difficult to leave. 

The primary reason is that walking away from a BPDer feels like you are walking away from a sick young child who, despite her periodic tantrums, dearly loves you. Because a BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old, you likely will feel like you're abandoning a vulnerable young child. Although this feeling is very real and painful, you don't have to believe it. 

It is simply not true that you are abandoning a child. Instead, you are allowing an emotionally stunted adult to confront the logical consequences of her own bad behaviors. If you choose instead to keep sheltering her from those consequences, your enabling behavior will harm her -- by destroying all incentives she has to confront her issues and learn how to manage them.

A second reason is that, whereas narcissists and sociopaths manipulate you with deliberate lies, a BPDer usually believes most of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. Hence, because you know she loves you and truly believes most of her allegations, you mistakenly assume that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore the R/S to that wonderful bliss and passion you saw at the beginning.

A third reason -- especially for excessive caregivers like you and me -- is that a BPDer relationship gives us an opportunity to experience the intoxicating feeling of being the nearly perfect man who has ridden in on a white horse to save the maiden from unhappiness. Our desire _to be needed_ far exceeds our desire _to be loved_. We therefore are strongly attracted to a child-like woman who can project her vulnerability across a crowded room. Indeed, if you ever see a Marilyn Monroe movie, you will see a BPDer who could project enormous vulnerability right off of a flat movie screen.

A fourth reason is that, because a BPDer so completely mirrors the best aspects of your personality and your preferences, you both mistakenly believe that you have found your "soulmate." Hence, even when you later start to question that intense feeling intellectually, you still have to fight against the intense feeling that she is somehow perfect for you -- and destined to be your mate.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jpp3 said:


> I am 90% sure she has BPD... she is treated for depression, anxiety, and *ADHD*.


JPP, as I noted four weeks ago, 80% of female BPDers suffer from co-occurring mood disorders such as depression and anxiety. You didn't mention ADHD at that time, however, so I did not comment on it earlier. Dr. Robert Friedel -- author of _BPD Demystified_ -- reports that _"ADHD occurs in at least 25% of people with borderline disorder; 5 times more often than it does in the general population."_ See BPD Demystified.

Moreover, some members of the psychiatric community suspect that BPD and adult ADHD may not be two distinct disorders but, rather, may represent -- at least for some patients -- two dimensions of one disorder. See, e.g., 2006 Study.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Well last night we sat down and really talked for the first time about where we were at after this last fight. I heard he side and told her mine. She told me where she is at with us and I instead of sticking to my guns and making the split agrees to give a go at working on our relationship, again... 

She says that this whole fight was blown up and taken out of context and while she admitted to taking some jabs says it was out of fear that not only was I leaving but was going to just toss her on the street and take our daughter away from her. She says that because the conversation was had through text and because I was at work and read them in a group instead of individualy that her words were misconstrued and that she wasn't saying she was leaving me. possible. She also said like it was like I was lying in wait for her to pick a fight any fight to have the opportunity to blow up and let it all out. Again very possible.

Since the second or third time she has threatened to leave I have been living with this feeling like I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. When we were in couples counseling several months back I even brought this up. I told her that at a certain point if the threats of leaving continued that I was going to leave. So while my response wasn't completely unexpected she maintains that she wasn't threatening to leave and was simply saying she needed to get away from the house because between our toddler, our dogs and this foster dog she was feeling overwhelmed but that it wasn't about me or our relationship.

She also said that the suicide talk wasn't serious and wasn't about me or our relationship. She said it was made because the thought of losing another child would be too much and she really thought I was going to take her from her. That if I did want to end it not to not only because I was afraid she was going to kill herself.

She also said that that our sexual relations the past few days were because she felt bad because she knew she flew off the handle and she was appologizing not because she was trying to manipulate me. 

The funny thing is I never brought these things up in our conversations, that I thought she was trying to manipulate, she brought it up as if she knew I was thinking it. Is that manipulation unto itself? 

We end the night by agreeing to continue to work on our relationship but sitting down and having a talk about what each of us need, want, and expect from our relationship, each other, and ourselves. 
We discussed therepy individualy and maybe couples as well, and what each of us would try to accomplish there, among other things, honesty,trust, respect, etc

Today was her first appointment. Today I also found a home for this dog who apparently started this whole fight. I took the dog and on my way back said that the appointment was taking longer then expected because of intake and Lylah was being crabby in the office and asked me to pick her up. I did. As I leave directly next door is a Sonic and my daughter asked for fries so I said sure and swung around to the drive through. There busy and I am waiting for about 5-10 minutes. As I'm sitting in the drive through I see her leave and pull out onto the street. I found this curious as I had just picked my daughter up.

I messaged her and asked her how long she thought she would be. She replies probably like 10 minutes wait and then 30 minutes with the Dr. I replied back, I see. She inquires about my response and says that after that she needs to go fill her meds. Now I know she doesn't know many people in town here so I can only think of one place she would go so I take a drive by and sure enough she was there. Now idk what of any suspicion she would be doing at her girlfriends house but the fact that she blantantly lies the night after we discussed all of this, honesty being one of the big issues.

I didn't call her out on it right away I waited until around the time she was due to be coming home and messaged. I wish I had waited to hear what she said about the Dr and if she had gone anywhere first but I didn't and called her out on it. She claimed that there must be a lag in the phones and that they released her right after I left. Then when I pointed out that makes no sense she said she must have just been confused. She is running in circles before I finally just say OK and drop it.

So now I'm back to square. I caught her In a lie, then she lied about lieing despite the fact that I caught her. Why? What is she doing at her girlfriends house that she needs to lie about being over there. Someone above said she is playing me like a fiddle, really seems to be the case. 

But then why still after all this am I here? Why didn't I call it quits the other night before she seduced me, and then again when we had our talk, and especially now. Why can't I get the words out of my mouth. I don't trust you, this relationship Is toxic and I need to seperated from it. Someone above also asked what is wrong with me? I don't know.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

So did she have scripts to fill? 

It is hard when you care about someone, leaving no matter what kind of relationship it is is hard. But you really have to do what makes you happy.

Did she find out you post here you think? She is manipulating you with lying and sex, she is telling you what you want to hear so you won't leave.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Well she said she stopped by the pharmacy to fill them they should be ready today so I guess we will see when I stop by to pick them up for her on my way home from work.

It is possible she found my posts here, although not likely. She is not very tech savvy that she could see my phone history from a computer, she never had my phone that I'm aware of nor know my pin for my phone.


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## DonaldDuck666 (Feb 20, 2017)

Jpp3 said:


> Well last night we sat down and really talked for the first time about where we were at after this last fight. I heard he side and told her mine. She told me where she is at with us and I instead of sticking to my guns and making the split agrees to give a go at working on our relationship, again...
> 
> She says that this whole fight was blown up and taken out of context and while she admitted to taking some jabs says it was out of fear that not only was I leaving but was going to just toss her on the street and take our daughter away from her. She says that because the conversation was had through text and because I was at work and read them in a group instead of individualy that her words were misconstrued and that she wasn't saying she was leaving me. possible. She also said like it was like I was lying in wait for her to pick a fight any fight to have the opportunity to blow up and let it all out. Again very possible.
> 
> ...


You need a therapist's help in extracting you from this. I get how difficult it is. They are master manipulators, these BPDers. You keep falling for it. She's worn you down and knows how to play you. For the sake of your child, GET OUT. Please.:frown2:


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

@Uptown, this was from one of your messages a few weeks ago.

"Granted, BPDers will -- on rare occasions -- be so miserable in a melt down that they will experience a "moment of clarity." At that time, they will have some self awareness to the point of being able to see that they are undermining the marriage and treating you terribly. But, sadly, that clarity will be gone in a day or two and anything they understood or agreed to will be totally out of mine. In my experience, it will have no lasting effect whatsoever."

Well I just got home from work and she was happy in a good mood and ready to go out. To answer someone else's question above, to pick a script she had indeed dropped off last night for valium. Anyway she said that she was talking with a friend and had an apifiny and understood how I felt. Explained in pretty accurate detail how I've been feeling and said that she now knowing she inflicted that upon me made her feel it too. She also understands now why I may have wanted to leave her but is glad that we are going to work at it. She said if you ever feel like this again and we need to end this she understands.

Hoping your experiences don't ring true for me, but thank you for sharing that as I'll be prepared if they do.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Jpp3 said:


> Hoping your experiences don't ring true for me, but thank you for sharing that as I'll be prepared if they do.


Likewise, JPP, I hope my experience does not apply to your situation. I wouldn't wish strong BPD traits on my worst enemy. I wish you both the best.


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## DonaldDuck666 (Feb 20, 2017)

Jpp3 said:


> @Uptown, this was from one of your messages a few weeks ago.
> 
> "Granted, BPDers will -- on rare occasions -- be so miserable in a melt down that they will experience a "moment of clarity." At that time, they will have some self awareness to the point of being able to see that they are undermining the marriage and treating you terribly. But, sadly, that clarity will be gone in a day or two and anything they understood or agreed to will be totally out of mine. In my experience, it will have no lasting effect whatsoever."
> 
> ...


You're in denial, my friend.


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## megrbaby87 (Mar 30, 2017)

Wonder what her side of the story is. Maybe she thinks you have your own issues like drinking or looking at young girls that might end you up.in jail. There is always two or more sides. There has been a lot of great advice given to bad nobody is going to give her some and you will prob. Blindesire her and try and take her kids .....smh D.O some people never change

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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

megrbaby87 I'm sure she does think I have my own problems, and she's probably not wrong, not drinking and certainly not young girls but I'm sure I do have my own, everybody does. And she does have people she talks to that hear her side and not mine. I don't wish to ever take her child from her, but I also will not allow her to take her from me.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

We have both agreed to finally call it quits. At first there was jabbing back and forth about what the other has done wrong and defending our own actions, but after a day or so we have been able to calm down and become civil.

She is currently out of town. And will be for two more weeks. While at first I was nervous because she had threatened to not come back or to come back and not tell me where she was going to stay with my daughter. After she calmed down she told me where she is going to be staying and that she will bring my daughter here upon her arrival. We were able to discus some custody arrangements and have decided that we are going to share joint 50/50 custody with joint decision making. She does wish to have "primary" care she says because of health insurance reasons, she said she will have state care with her as well as help with childcare. A part of feels like she only wants primary so she can collect child support from , but another part thinks this is reasonable. The child support would only be around $250 a month so it's not as if she can live off my child support alone and sit around and do nothing while I pay her so I'm not to concerned about it.

We had discussed before after one of our fights while we were making up that if we were to split that we would keep this civil and try to keep it out of court. And it seems she wishes to keep it that way, me as well so long as it remain civil. 

She intends to get an apartment a few towns over. She was talking as if she had nothing like I would send her with the clothes on her back. Again another thing I reminded her that I would never leave her with nothing and asked her to make a list of what from the house she wishes to take with her. This far we have agreed to split things relatively evenly. She will take one of the 3 beds, 2 of the 4 TV's, the two recliners and I will keep the coach, 2 of the 3 dressers, I will keep the nightstands, she wishes to leave the dogs here because she doesn't want to seperate them and I have a yard she won't, is going to go through the kitche


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

She is going to go through the kitchen and take some essentials while leaving me with some


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Photograph it all. Photo her car with the stuff she takes. Most women come back and say you kept everything and want more, once they see how hard it is to pay for living alone. No matter what, do NOT agree to pay her anything until you have been to a lawyer.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Thank you, I will definitely document it all. I'm glad I got that advice because I probably would not have. Really everything that is mine, I have acquired since we have been together so to a point she can try to lay some claim to everything. Hoping we can continue to be civil, but since we have talked I feel like she has flip flopped a few times already.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Jpp3, It's good that you realize that this is a bad dynamic and that it's not getting better. Be careful that hysterical bonding ( great sex ) doesn't sabotage you because it's addictive.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't forget that half of everything is yours.


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