# Would you stay if your spouse had wanted another, but couldn't get them



## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

After repeated arguments, my wife finally admits "Yes, if that man at my work had wanted me, I would have left you for him"

Would or could you stay with a woman that admits that?

She doesn't even apologize either, she doesn't attempt to explain it "Oh, it was just a mistake because of xyz" she just angrily says "And what did you hope to achieve getting me to admit that?" I dunno, The Truth perhaps.

Even so, she yells at me when I bring it up, feeling like crap, and says "I don't understand what the problem is, I married YOU afterall"

Yeah, only because you weren't good looking enough to get more than a "hello" out of him so settled on me, how the fcuk am I supposed to feel about that? It's like my life the past 10 years have been a lie. It explains our virtually sexless marriage. I haven't been my wife's man, I've been the only loser she could find who would stand by her, while all along she put other men (and her family) before me in her heart and mind. And she cannot understand the problem in that.

"Just get over it" is another line she has yelled at me more times than I can count.

She also says that even though I WAS totally correct in everything I suspected about her feelings for him all those years ago, I am STILL an insecure paranoid psycho for having even thought so. 

So even though I was right, somehow in her hamster mind, I am still wrong. I'm left scratching my head wondering how this is not pure, insane doublethink.

My 5yo boy cries when we fight, and is terrified I will leave.

I dunno, what would a normal man do? This woman has destroyed my self esteem and fcuked my mind. I'm just ranting I guess.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

It looks like your feeding the fire.

Why on earth would you tell us your wife has a "hamster" mind? That is name calling and disrespectful.

There are two sides to every story. Your leaving a lot of details out and your blaming her for your misery.


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## N_chanted (Nov 11, 2012)

i'm just going to answer the question....

NO. H3LL NO. If my H wanted someone else, and couldn't get them, but only stayed with me, there is nothing saying he wouldn't continue to look for someone else he thought was better. In fact, "he couldn't get them" suggests that he tried, and i quite honestly would expect that he would continue and therefore is not committed to me, or our marriage. Or Family for that matter. NO, i wouldn't stay. That is just my queue to leave. 

I already have self esteem issues, and I certainly don't need to add that much [email protected] on them too.

If he were to just come out and tell me that, well, to me it would suggest that he has one H3LL of an ego and that he thinks himself superior to me. Pretty much in every way. 

yeah, my H already thinks that. At least it feels that way which is why he treats me the way he does.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> It looks like your feeding the fire.
> 
> Why on earth would you tell us your wife has a "hamster" mind? That is name calling and disrespectful.
> 
> There are two sides to every story. Your leaving a lot of details out and your blaming her for your misery.


 Am I? Read my other threads for some background "sista". And what other term can I use for my wife's mental gymnastics when the phrase "hamsterism" is already available and sums it up so perfectly, and its not like I ever said that to her face, I'm saying it here because I'm venting. But whatever. I'm a male, so must be wrong, that's how it goes huh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

If your marriage was good, it might be another story. But the way you describe it, no. I wouldn't be sticking around. Why would you? What are you getting from the marriage that you couldn't get from a roommate or dog?

C


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Am I? Read my other threads for some background "sista". And what other term can I use for my wife's mental gymnastics when the phrase "hamsterism" is already available and sums it up so perfectly, and its not like I ever said that to her face, I'm saying it here because I'm venting. But whatever. I'm a male, so must be wrong, that's how it goes huh.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't understand how spouses can say such mean and hateful things to each other such as what I read on TAM and seem like they have no remorse. I understand the heat of an argument but then you're going to top it off by saying "what?" When your spuse call you on it? I mean what do these people think the purpose of marriage is? Two becoming one so if you're one you going to treat yourself like dirt? Just do the other one a favor and leave already!

OP I feel your pain. I don't advocate walking out of a marriage for other than adultery or physical abuse but geez! That was heartless what your wife said to you moreso the followup than the original statement
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

In a word....NO

According to her, you were the "best" she could get at the moment.

I agree with n chanted that I would always wonder if she was looking ti trade up on her "starter" husband.

Add into this mix the sexless side of the marriage and I'd be out the door. Having a young child is tough when it comes to divorcing but in your case I think I'd do it before I wasted any more of my life with that woman


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

If she was a decent woman, she would release you... because she knows deep down YOU deserve better than what she IS, or can give you. Unless of course you have caused a climate of turmoil leading up to this...do you feel she settled when she married you, or was it all beautiful, the love flowing ? (not familiar with your story)...what happened ? 

NO, I would NOT stay in a marriage like this, as much as a Romantic Mush I am... I would get depressed and very angry to be entangled with someone who felt like that...pining/ dreaming and fantasizing for another....I wouldn't want to touch them and I would feel like a burden. 

Being single would be far better, I would fight to get custody of your child... and leave her to her dreams of finding Mr Prince Charming...if she feels she can do better. Let her bask in that glory of alone-ness & wanting for awhile....

Then maybe she will realize what she had all along...like that song..."*Don't know what you got till it's gone*". Many a people have made these mistakes and lived to regret them. 

Just because you feel "settled" for ..in no way means you are of less value or worth.....some people are just delusional about themselves.



> *committed4ever said*: I don't advocate walking out of a marriage for other than adultery or physical abuse.


 I would... if the love is lost and the spouse is cold, aloof...unrepentant, not willing to work together, strive together to recapture, re-vive what has been lost... go to Marriage counseling... my spirit would slowly die...too lonely. 




> *LanieB said:* If you want to try to save your marriage, you need to convince your wife to go to *marriage counseling*.
> 
> * If nothing else, at least go to individual counseling for yourself.* You can always work on YOU, no matter what. Maybe one day you'll be able to wake up and realize you've done the best you can, but it's time to end this fiasco of a "marriage". A lot of people stay for the kids' sake, but this kind of environment is actually harmful to a child. Just something to think about.


:iagree:


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think your situation is not uncommon, unfortunately. People marry for many reasons that don't have to do with love. The question is can the two of you make your marriage work (and do you want to) now?

And please don't argue in front of your child or where he can overhear you. He may forget a lot of things, when he's an adult, about being five years old but he won't forget his parents fighting.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Hell no I wouldn't stay. I'd shoot the gap like yesterday. I refuse to be "miss good enough for now".


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If I had shown more interest in mathematics in high school I might be a brain surgeon instead of a cop. If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bust his butt every time he jumped. 
It's probably true for everyone on the planet that if he we had found what we perceived to be a better deal we would have married someone else. I freely admit I'm not perfect and my wife could have married someone smarter, better looking, wealthier, funnier, etc. She also could have married a serial killer, a gang banger, or a bum. 
Your wife said something stupidly honest in a moment of stress. The fact is she married you. The fact is she has had the choice every day for 10 years to dump you for something else but she daily chose to stay. 
Don't believe I'd tell my wife that she wasn't good looking enough for someone else. She may decide to prove you wrong.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Theorectically speaking, yes I would leave my partner under the same conditions.

If I did stay I would wonder if every woman who got a just a bit friendly with my husband was my replacement.

The other sad fact here is that your wife not even trying to hide her preference for someone else, maybe anybody else.

My fiance constantly tells me that he has always preferred me over his "just a friend ex." While I have seen some evidence that might suggest the contrary, those details are well into the past now. 2 and one half years on......

Which means that I try to be careful as well. I don't want to act as if I can't get over it because I don't want him to worry at what point I might decide to move on to a "better" partner as well.

OP, it sounds to me as if you are getting nothing out of this marriage.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Hey, Cro! You know MY opinion, but I'll reiterate here for you. Glad to see you're hanging TOUGH, glad to see you're considering YOURSELF and the effects of this crap on YOU and on your kid(s)!



> After repeated arguments, my wife finally admits "Yes, if that man at my work had wanted me, I would have left you for him"
> 
> Would or could you stay with a woman that admits that? You mean the part where I'm better than nothing? Not MUCH BETTER than nothing, but slightly better than NOTHING? Um, .........HELL NO!
> 
> ...


**hugs, man* SGW *

*


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Dont stay. She has zero respect for you nor does she care one bit about your feelings. After being cruel she has the nerve to yell..."I dont understand what the problem is, I married you," like she's some prize you have been blessed with. She seems to think much too highly of herself. Never settle for less than 1st choice, 1st place in your SO's life. You can and should be!


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

How do you know she's sincere?

Why did you ask a question to which the answer you might now want to know?

I get the feeling she said it out of spite and to hurt you, but I don't know the whole story... Regardless, it seems like she's kind of insensitive about it... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> After repeated arguments, my wife finally admits "Yes, if that man at my work had wanted me, I would have left you for him"


It takes two to argue, what exactly are you hoping to accomplish by fighting with her about this? Is it working?



> Would or could you stay with a woman that admits that?


Yes. Is divorcing her a quick ticket to happiness with a guarantee?



> "And what did you hope to achieve getting me to admit that?" I dunno, The Truth perhaps.


She made a good point. Did pressing for the truth make you feel better? Did it make her love you more?



> Even so, she yells at me when I bring it up, feeling like crap, and says "I don't understand what the problem is, I married YOU afterall"


So WHY on earth would you continue to bring it up? Forgive her for this and work on improving the marriage by being the H she wants. Or, you could wait for her to be and do what you want... someone has to make the first step. 

You can only control you, so... 



> Yeah, only because you weren't good looking enough to get more than a "hello" out of him so settled on me, how the fcuk am I supposed to feel about that? It's like my life the past 10 years have been a lie. It explains our virtually sexless marriage. I haven't been my wife's man, I've been the only loser she could find who would stand by her, while all along she put other men (and her family) before me in her heart and mind. And she cannot understand the problem in that.





> I dunno, what would a normal man do? *This woman has destroyed my self esteem and fcuked my mind.* I'm just ranting I guess.


Don't allow your self esteem to be dictated by anyone else, not even your spouse. You're better than that, aren't you?

My advice in order:

Forgive her, and never bring it up again.

Work on being the best Man, Father, and H you can be, (in that order) FOR YOURSELF. 

Learn to speak her Love Language(s)


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## damiana879 (Aug 26, 2011)

I have to admit...I did that...I tried to hold onto a man that told me he was in love with another woman and the reason he was with me was because 1) he couldn't have her, and 2) because I "reminded him of her"...it doesn't work...it never will. I feel sorry for your son, but the fact is that what they're saying is right, even if there is two sides to every story, HER side is that she will leave you in a heartbeat for someone she perceives as better...and more than likely, she will test the waters first...that's what my ex did...just sayin...


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

I don't get some of the responses on here - I really don't. I'm not sure what a hamster mind is (I need to look that one up!) but Cro - I'd be outta there. I understand that you have a young son and want to do what is best by him. Just know that some of us think what she has done is cruel. It's good that she finally told the truth, but now you have to decide what to do with that.

Can you continue living like this knowing that truth? Will you ever be #1 in her mind and can she commit to working on that? Right now with that "just get over it" attitude, I would have a hard time believing her. You are a BS. Even though he rejected her, she was in a one sided EA and her dismissal of you is simply harsh. 

Lastly your self esteem - she is not the "prize" in this marriage and just because she married you doesn't make everything alright. Some people marry for love, some for money, some for fear of being alone - there are lots of reasons to marry and you deserve to know the truth about why she married you. Maybe it was for love but things changed. I too would feel like crap if someone had done to me what she is doing to you however eventually you may believe again that you are worth a lot more than her opinion of you. I'm sure your son thinks so. 

Good luck and I hope that she comes to her senses but if she doesn't, I hope that you can find some peace.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I agree with Almost Young.

Don't you hate when the wife brings up something from the past that you did, which is why she's mad at you all these years? "On Christmas in 1979, your Mother did not say hello to me... and you should have said something to her. I'm mad at you for that".

The point is, dwelling on the past is a bad move in a marriage.

Your problem is in the here and now. Your wife is not a good wife. There are thousands of reasons a man could have a wife that does not make him feel loved. Your are making a mistake by trying to root out the "reason"... All marriage will decline into lovelessness without it being maintained. You have to set expectations and lead your marraige into a place where BOTH people get their emotional needs met.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

I had a quick look at your other threads and just those are enough for you to leave her or take other serious actions.

Add this one to that, I see no logical reason why you would let yourself be disrespected like that.

Is divorce not a choice for you due to religious reason's? or something else?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Nope, I'm not down with being the consolation prize.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

in my tree said:


> I don't get some of the responses on here - I really don't. - I'd be outta there.


How old are you and how long have you been married?

Me: 52 and 29 years.

OP: Feelings come and go in even the best of marriages. If you press her for some unrealistic commitment of “true everlasting love” (whatever that means to you) at a time when she’s not feeling it, your marriage is done. Is that what you want? If you wait things out, her feelings can not only change, but your actions can be the driving force behind it.

Do you love her? Did you sign up for a lifelong commitment? Or did you vow to be hurt and bail as soon as the going got a little tough? 

I too can’t believe some of the responses here. I guess that’s why we have such a high D rate, and so many 2nd and 3rd marriages. All by people who claim to know what true love is. So sad.


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## N_chanted (Nov 11, 2012)

AlmostYoung said:


> How old are you and how long have you been married?
> 
> Me: 52 and 29 years.
> 
> ...


So, i'll just put this out there. Agree if you want. Disagree if ya want.... doesn't matter really. you know what they say about Opinions 

I am/was in my marriage for the long haul. Just because my partner makes a mistake, is no reason to split. Two mistakes, still no reason to hit the road. But 4, 10, 15? 
I'm not talking they forgot to add a debit to the check book, i am talking cheating, lying, hiding, etc. I may be able to get past SOME of that stuff, but not if they really have no remorse. They will continue to do it, i will continue to hurt. I will be miserable, and eventually become bitter and angry. is that what i signed up for? NOPE.
Would i leave? SURE WOULD. I am not about to stay for anyone, making those kind of "mistakes" in a relationship i am in. it's 50%/50%. That doesnt mean i pull 90%, put up with the "mistakes" and overlook it, just to stay married. 

EFF that! i deserve to be happy too! and if i have kids, well my thoughts on that are ... if they see me stay with the other parent's "mistakes" then they get the benefit of seeing us working out our issues. That's probably what should happen. They learn compromise that way also. 

if they see the mistakes continue, and become a pattern, and how much i hurt, well you know, i would want my kids to see me happy too. I don't deserve to be unhappy my entire life. The kids don't need to see me unhappy my entire life. Besides, am i not allowed a mistake too???? and maybe mine was staying tooo long and putting up with way toooo many of the other persons mistakes! 

(ok, i'm off my soapbox now)


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

AlmostYoung said:


> How old are you and how long have you been married?
> 
> Me: 52 and 29 years.


I am 47 and was married for 20 years. I should have divorced after three years but stupid me had this idea that marriage was not to be taken lightly and that we should try to work on our issues. 17 years later, it still wasn't working. 

His wife said that she would have left him for another man and that he should just get over it. What's not to love there, eh? He is not first in her mind and if that man does change his mind about her or if another "better" man (in her mind) comes long, who knows if she will put Cro-Magnon first? Magic 8 ball says "outlook not so good" based on her history. 

I mean who in the hell wants to be #2?? it would drive most people crazy to know that their spouse wants someone else, thinks that s/he would be happier with another but you'll do - for now.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

No,noway, never,Hell no, 

even if I had to sleep in a card board box under a bridge for the rest of my life!

But thats just me.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> After repeated arguments, my wife finally admits "Yes, if that man at my work had wanted me, I would have left you for him"


I agree with Yin Princess ...She "finally admitted" something you were already insecure about and sounds like maybe you weren't going to be satisfied or drop it til she agreed with you .So she agrees with you whether its even true or not she says YES (means she is answering a question you are asking her repeatedly which meant what? she said NO how many times before the yes? ) now you are what "justified" ?This may be one of those "be careful what you ask for" situations.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Yeah, only because you weren't good looking enough to get more than a "hello" out of him so settled on me, how the fcuk am I supposed to feel about that?


How in the F is SHE supposed to feel about this thought in your head?You already "felt" due to your own insecurities she settled for you against another man "years ago" ? So you pressure her to admit what you already believe after she denies it?Then when she says but I'm with you ...you cut her down and tell her because she isnt good looking enough to have gotten better than you ?Do you even see here what you are doing?

In your own way you are dragging her down in your own insecurities by using an insult against her as her reasoning for choosing you .

Really its like saying ...If you weren't so "low IQ" you would have never married me RIGHT!!??? That's it RIGHT!??? That's why you married me because you were too STUPID to find someone any smarter than me right???Answer my question!!!!


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I agree with Yin Princess ...She "finally admitted" something you were already insecure about and sounds like maybe you weren't going to be satisfied or drop it til she agreed with you .So she agrees with you whether its even true or not she says YES (means she is answering a question you are asking her repeatedly which meant what? she said NO how many times before the yes? ) now you are what "justified" ?This may be one of those "be careful what you ask for" situations.


Too many people to respond to, thanks for all the replies.
As for above. What she admitted is the truth, it is the truth I have known all these years. She wasn't just admitting it out of spite. In her note to me, she explained that this bloke was the spitting image of her first boyfriend, the one she was head over heels for, and who cheated and dumped her. 

One day, me and her were fine, totally in love, the next day, she was stone cold to me, wouldn't answer sms's, was "too tired" to see me wanted to just sleep, etc. My gut got a knot in it, and I knew something was up. I thought about it, and remembered some Canadian chef she had brought up several times, out of context to anything, and she'd go out of her way to say how he was "just a kid" or "really annoying" ie, she was disqualifying him to me trying to throw me off the scent. So it was obvious it was him. And it was.

I knew nothing about imposing boundaries, or any of the standard responses to these situations that TAM teaches back then, I was clueless, had a broken heart, and just fumbled through the situation trying to win her back. I remember buying her flowers, and she threw them into the passenger footwell, and started balling her eyes out.

I had no power over her heart. She told me how ALL the girls at her work were fighting for his attention. And she was clearly violently depressed that she couldn't compete for him against all these younger prettier girls.

Her first boyfriend told her she was ugly, and "stank" down there, and to this day my compliments to her mean nothing, and she stands there and argues with me that her boyfriend was right, that she DOES stink, even though she doesn't and I tell her so. In other words, she puts his opinion above mine, even though he isn't even here, she is still holding a candle for him.

I think she has no idea that it is not normal to compartmentalize your heart the way she does. I think she thinks that it is OK to just "be" a wife, wash dishes, dole out duty sex, and for that to be a "normal" marriage.

Fcuk this shtt has aged me. We have a 1yo daughter too.

Of course you are all only hearing my side of the story, and I'm sure she has many legitimate grievances about me, but at the same time, I've NEVER put another woman before her, and have done everything in my power to love her completely.

I made her do the love languages quiz with me, and she kinda smirked at me when discussing the results. I know her needs, and CAN meet them, but she cannot meet mine, I think is is incapable of it, just dishing out a few words of encouragement for her is apparently impossible.

Marriage counselling is happening as soon as possible.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER? HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS?

I haven't read your other posts but it lookslike you are in a downward spiral of picking each other apart.

You both are responsible for your own happiness:From CarmenOhio

*originally posted by carmen ohio:

While I greatly respect the other posters on this thread, I believe many of them, like you, are missing the big picture here -- namely, what should you do to regain your happiness.

From reading your notes, it is clear that you were absent from class the day they handed out the "how to be happy" instructions. So let me fill you in on The 10 Rules for Happiness:

Rule No. 1: You only get one life; never forget that. Corollary: You don't know how long you will live, you could live another 50 years or you might die tomorrow; never forget that either.

Rule No. 2: Deal with things as they really are, not as you would like them to be. Face up to your problems rather than pretending they don't exist or hoping they will simply go away.

Rule No. 3: You are solely responsible for your own happiness: don't expect or look to others to make you happy.

Rule No. 4: Your decisions and actions will have the greatest impact on your happiness. If you do the right things, your life will be better and vice versa. Corollary: Be honest with yourself about your failings and genuinely seek to improve yourself.

Rule No. 5: There is no guarantee that you will always be happy: some people win life's lottery, most don't and some people get the shaft. Corollary 1: Don't complain about the cards you are dealt or wallow in self-pity. Instead, focus on what you can control and learn not to worry about the rest. Corollary 2: Understand that it sometimes takes time and effort to regain your happiness.

Rule No. 6: Understand what makes you happy and what doesn't. Corollary 1: Since you will change over time, reconsider from time to time what will make you happy now and adjust your decisions and actions accordingly. Corollary 2: When something happens that makes you very unhappy, consider the totality of the situation: sometimes cutting down a few trees is the answer, other times you need to look for a new forest in which to live.

Rule No. 7: Do what makes you happy. Don't do what others (parents, friends, bosses, spouses, even children) want you to do unless it is what makes you happy. This might sound selfish but it's not. Some people are happiest when they are serving others (e.g., firemen, Mother Teresa). 

Rule No. 8: If you are unhappy about something, eliminate it from your life or, if that is not possible, minimize the degree of unhappiness it can cause you. If it's a situation (like a bad job), change it. If it's a thing (like a poorly operating car), get rid of it. If it's a person (like a wayward spouse), stop interacting or least minimize contact with the person. Corollary: When something or someone starts to cause you unhappiness, take action immediately; don't wait around hoping things will get better.

Rule No. 9: You don't apologize to anyone for doing what makes you happy. Corollary: You have no obligation to explain yourself or justify your decisions or actions. If you choose to do so, it should only be because it is to your advantage to do so.

Rule No. 10: Be the best person you can be, as you measure things. For most men, this means being fit and attractive to members of the opposite sex, being financially successfully and being emotionally strong and independent. But if you measure life success differently (e.g., displaying Christian virtues, gaining notoriety, acquiring power), then make these the main focus of you efforts.

If we apply these rules to your situation, it become readily apparent that you are breaking all the rules. For example:

☻ You are focused in the moment rather than thinking about how you want to live the rest of your life (violation of Rule No. 1). 

☻ You are more concerned about what your W may or may not have done rather than dealing with what you know she has done (violation of Rule No. 2).

☻ You seek affirmation from your W of your self-worth and the guidance of strangers as to what you should do, rather than taking responsibility for yourself (violation of Rule Nos. 3, 4 and 9).

☻ You are reluctant to take steps to improve your situation and instead are wallowing in self-pity and shame (violation of Rule Nos. 5, 7, 8 and 10).

☻ You seem not to have thought deeply about what you really want out of life (violation of Rule No. 6). 

☻ You reject the notion that your life may have to radically change in order for you to (eventually) be happy (another violation of Rule No. 6).

Based on the facts as you have recited them, I believe you have ample reason to be unhappy in your current circumstances and sufficient justification for taking action. So let me offer you an alternative approach to your problem that is consistent with the Rules of Happiness:

1. Sit your W down and tell her that you are so unhappy with your marriage that you are prepared to end it. Explain that, given what you know (OM's note, her hiding her phone messages, etc.), you can only conclude that either she is having an affair or that she doesn't care about you (as these are the only two reasons why she would not have taken steps to address your concerns when you first raised them). Say that, in either case, you would rather end your marriage than continue it since you deserve and are confident that you can have better than what you have right now.

2. Tell her that, out of love for her and your children, you are willing to give her one last chance to save her marriage and prove to you that she is a worthy wife. This requires her telling you everything that has happened between her and her boss, showing you all of her e-mails and text messages, giving you access to all of her communications in the future, immediately terminating all contact with her boss, demonstrating by word and deed on a daily basis that she loves and respects you and doing whatever else you require for her to prove her worth.

3. Tell her that it is her choice whether to do these things or not but, if she chooses not to, you plan to hire an attorney and file for divorce.

4. Stay calm and collected and don't argue with her. If she questions or challenges anything you say, calmly reply that she now knows what you expect of her and it is up to her to decide what she wants to do. Repeat your message as many times as necessary until she realizes that you mean what you say.

5. Give her a very short period of time to consider this. For example, tell her that you plan to speak to an attorney the next day so, if she wants to save her marriage, she has but a few hours to accept your offer.

6. If she refuses, immediately speak to an attorney and commence divorce proceedings.

7. If she agrees, continue to monitor her closely to make sure she does not go underground. Don't tolerate her complaining or pouting for more than a couple of days. If you get any indication that she is not serious about following through with her promise, start divorce proceedings.

8. For the foreseeable future, be cordial toward your W but nothing more. Don't initiate conversations, compliment her, argue with her or do anything else that would lead her to believe that she is anything special to you. Act at all times like a man who knows what he wants and knows that he can get what he wants, if not from her, then somewhere else.

9. Begin to take steps to improve yourself (exercise, work, activities). Make this -- along with your kids -- the focus of your life for now.

10. Start to educate yourself on what it takes to be a man in the 21st century. A good place to start is to read "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay.

If you take these steps, I can't guarantee that you will end up in a happy marriage with your current W but I can promise that, eventually, you will give yourself the greatest chance of finding true happiness. The key point is that you can't control your W but you can control you. Hence, you should be doing the things that will eventually make you happy, whether your W wants to be with you or not.

I'm not saying any of this will be easy; it may be the hardest thing you will ever have to do. But unless you do it, your life will likely only get worse.

Wishing the best for you.*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Print carmen's advice and give it to your wife too.

Quit picking at scabs. I doubt most people would admit to the fact that they would have married someone else given the chance although I had to tell Jennifer Lopez to take a hike. The living proof is how many marriages have been broken up by lod aquaintances getting back together over facebook.

Here is another post from the past:

*Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!*

Your wifes deal with the guy she used to work with is a fantasy, treat it like one.

How did he turn out by the way?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cro-Magnum...the real question is, why do you love a woman who you are only a consolation prize to? Why do YOU love a woman who doesn't love you? This question is about YOU....not her. You are choosing to stay married to her and you presumably love her. But why do YOU feel that way? What is it based on?

Also, please no "she's the mother of my children" answers. I'm talking about why YOU are willing to be someone's consolation prize.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I made her do the love languages quiz with me, and she kinda smirked at me when discussing the results. I know her needs, and CAN meet them, but she cannot meet mine, I think is is incapable of it, just dishing out a few words of encouragement for her is apparently impossible.


I have more to say and I'm not "picking on you " but this stuck out..You "made her" which doesnt sound 100% voluntary on her part(to do the quiz) and you are surprised she isnt going to dish out what you want?IOW being succesful in "making her' (twisting her arm) to take some quiz you shouldn't be surprised you cant "make her' say words you want.YEP its "impossible" to "make" people exactly how you want..I mean you could (Or we could) hang them up under threat of electricution or some other torture tactics to get what we want but that would kind of defeat the whole purpose..One of the main reasons I think LL (the 5 LL book) is a bunch of hog wash .

You said it she "can not" meet your needs.You have to accept that or leave.you can not "make her' meet them..and like I said even if you could knowing you "made her" is that really fulfilling?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I haven't read pg 2 & 3 of responses yet, but I'm finding myself in disagreement with most people on this one. 

It sounds to me like you've been hammering at her until you heard what you wanted to, the only thing you would accept as the "TRUTH" - and now you're mad that she gave you what you wanted. 

Reality check: Every single married couple out there chose to marry because they believed that it was the best course of action. Every person *could* long to be with superhotrichcelebrity, but recognized that it's not a realistic hope and instead, they dated and married someone else. Your wife realized EX was not a realistic hope, you and are the someone else she married. 

So she'd have left you IF. Ok... big deal! IF does not exist. 

If she's treating you like you're second class, that IS a big deal. But if she treats you well otherwise, pat yourself on the back for being the best reality she found. 

But then your post goes on to say that your marriage is virtually sexless, and that she doesn't make you much of a priority. THAT is the problem. Some fantasy from her past *might* be a symptom but it's a red herring that will prevent you from working on the real problem. 

"WHY" she doesn't prioritize and adore you is the problem. Fix that. 

Start by becoming the kind of guy a woman wants - someone who is confident and happy, because they're the kinds of people we enjoy spending time with. Who wants a grumpy, angry partner? 

Take care of yourself. Spend your time around people who appreciate and value you while you rebuild your self-esteem. Stop placing your happiness in the hands of someone who isn't meeting your needs, and build your own happiness that's part of YOU, no matter what's going on around you. Control yourself and your own life instead of trying to make others fit in the way you want.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

[QUOTEIt sounds to me like you've been hammering at her until you heard what you wanted to, the only thing you would accept as the "TRUTH" - and now you're mad that she gave you what you wanted. ][/QUOTE]

Thats pretty much what I said on page 2.

Be careful what you ask for..hammering someone to "admit" what you "think already" then acting devestated they "admit "it and rolling over and crying saying "can you believe they said that/think that" is actually some sort of self(emotional) mutilation if you ask me.

Its like getting up in someones face and saying HIT me! HIT! me..they resist ..and you keep in their face and say I DARE you to hit me! HIT me ..then they finally hit you and you start crying and say "I knew you wanted to hit me"..you wanted to hit me all along!:slap:


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

This is totally conflicting..

[QUOTEHer first boyfriend told her she was ugly, and "stank" down there, and to this day my compliments to her mean nothing, and she stands there and argues with me that her boyfriend was right, that she DOES stink, even though she doesn't and I tell her so. In other words, she puts his opinion above mine, even though he isn't even here, she is still holding a candle for him.][/QUOTE]


And then you tell her she wans't "good looking enough" to get the guy she really wanted. But yet your opinon should count more than his?

Am I nuts? Or are you not saying "look ..you weren't HOT enough for that guy..you were below him..you are on MY level though and I know that ..that's why you should be happy to have ME!You WERE too UGLY FOR him BUT NOT FOR ME! My standards are way lower cant you appreciate me for that!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I read through your threads. You started reading Married Man Sex Life Primer. Things started getting better. Now you are back to square one?

You obviously did not unederstand it the first time.

Screaming at each other? Really.

Realtionships are built on ACTIONS not words.

Go back to MMSLP..................live it. 

You drive your wife, or any other person away with the way you communicate. You tell her how she is destroying you. Totally the wrong thing to do. The message you actually sent is I am weak and not good enough.

What happened to the guy that had started going out and doing things that made you happy. Everything you do seems designed to make her turn away from you. You should be the rock not the sponge.

Go back to MMSLP and live it. 

Medical help is not the answer but it can help. If the first thing they give doesn't help that doesn't mean the its fatal it means try something else.

Your rants against meds and women in general says it all. You have to fix yourself, your family will follow a leader as will everyone. They will not follow someone who is weak, screaming, whining and has lost themselves.

You can't keep any woman or friend if you are not happy with yourself. You are driving her away like a bulldozer pushing dirt.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> You tell her how she is destroying you. Totally the wrong thing to do. The message you actually sent is I am weak and not good enough.


At the same time telling her she isn't good enough either for anyone else BUT him.Hes not only lowering himself by saying she isnt hot enough for the other guy but hot enough for him but insulting her in the process.

Its a double whammy.Hes not only saying he has low standards but SHE is the low standard!Because she isn't good looking enough to get anything better than him...:slap:


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Wow, quite the juxtaposition of opinions. First off, trust me when I tell you there are 3 sides to every story. In this case, it's the OP's, his wife's and the truth. 

Some have argued that the OP was badgering his wife to confirm what he already believed. Well, it appears he has been living a lie for the past how many years. Like a dog that's been beaten into a corner he eventually lashed back out at his wife, likely for her deplorable treatment of him throughout their marriage. And who could blame him? 

And, while it is true that almost none of us marry the person we first thought we'd be with forever (otherwise we'd all be married to our first BF/GF) it's quite another to come out and say 'you were nothing more than a consolation prize', in no uncertain terms. There is no doubt that the OP does share some of the blame for this marriage going horribly wrong (mostly for allowing it all to get to this point), but the lion's share goes to the wife. With that said, there's no way in hell I'd stay with her another minute. I value myself, and my self respect, far more than I value the 'sanctity of marriage'. And in the long run the kids will be far better off when they're removed from this toxic environment.


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## elizabethdennis (Jan 16, 2013)

Have you considered marriage counseling? Why don't you give it a try? Divorce should be the last option. Try to save your marriage if you can. But I am not telling you to torture yourself in a marriage that is not working anymore. All I am trying to say is try to save it, but if it still won't work, decide from there. At least you've done what you can do to save your marriage.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I haven't read the responses and I don't really know your story. On the face of it, I would say, if my wife told me that AND I was in a sexless marriage I'd likely bail. I don't really see the purpose in trying to salvage anything since there isn't much to salvage. On the one hand you could learn to live with the comment, but then you're still sexless so what's the point. If she's not into you or can't admit she's into you then it's a never ending uphill battle.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> She told me how ALL the girls at her work were fighting for his attention. And she was clearly violently depressed that she couldn't compete for him against all these younger prettier girls.


Poor girl.

Maybe a shovel and two bags of lime will make her rest easy.


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## Angel5112 (Jul 25, 2011)

We humans have a wonderful (or horrible) way of changing the facts from the past into what we want them to be. 

I could say that maybe because your marriage isn't in the greatest place right that your wife is looking back and thinking; I would have been better off, happier, more successful, financial stable...whatever. You get the point. It can't be that abnormal in a situation for one party to think, "I would have been better off with...fill in the blank". 

That being said...

No, I wouldn't take someone telling me I was a second choice. No one should have to go through what you are describing. How many times did you accuse her of this before she "came out" though? Is it possible that she was just fed up and trying to appease you?


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Hmm. Have you guys tried counseling? It doesn't ultimately matter who was her first choice; she ultimately did choose you. The question that matters is whether or not she is committed to the one she is with. Try to set aside her ego issues of what could have been and work out what IS -- even though it must hurt to feel like second best.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

I think you both would be better off getting divorced from 
each other.You both are at a point that its not just fighting,
but how you or your wife fights.

When you fight with someone and you specifically saying things
you know will mentally damage them then you your marriage is totally disfunctional.If you have kids there gonna see this venom spewed.

If it was myself,i couldn't handle coming home to this negative
atmosphere every day.I would prefer to have peace and quiet and be single.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> At the same time telling her she isn't good enough either for anyone else BUT him.Hes not only lowering himself by saying she isnt hot enough for the other guy but hot enough for him but insulting her in the process.
> 
> Its a double whammy.Hes not only saying he has low standards but SHE is the low standard!Because she isn't good looking enough to get anything better than him...:slap:


Are you trolling?
Her 1st serious boyfriend told her a heaps of horrible things about her that have damaged her self esteem and self image.

She is my wife, and think she is perfect, and think it is wrong that she feels this way about herself, so I tell her that this arsehole was wrong, that she IS beautiful. What the hell is wrong with wanting your wife to feel good about herself?
My issue is when my wife STANDS UP for this old flame, and DEFENDS his opinions, AGAINST HER OWN HUSBAND. She tells me I am wrong and that he was right to say what he said about her.

So his opinion counts for more to her than mine, her husbands.

If you can't see the problem in that, then God help you.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

elizabethdennis said:


> Have you considered marriage counseling? Why don't you give it a try? Divorce should be the last option. Try to save your marriage if you can. But I am not telling you to torture yourself in a marriage that is not working anymore. All I am trying to say is try to save it, but if it still won't work, decide from there. At least you've done what you can do to save your marriage.


Thank you, that is exactly what I am doing, we had out first marriage counselling session today, though he didn't really say much, though we'll see how next weeks session goes. I am not going to leave my children until I have tried everything, but at the end of the day if we are incompatible then so be it.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Cro-Magnum...the real question is, why do you love a woman who you are only a consolation prize to? Why do YOU love a woman who doesn't love you? This question is about YOU....not her. You are choosing to stay married to her and you presumably love her. But why do YOU feel that way? What is it based on?
> 
> Also, please no "she's the mother of my children" answers. I'm talking about why YOU are willing to be someone's consolation prize.


I dunno, Chapparal really slammed me hard with a 2x4 in a PM, and perhaps he's right. I just need to STFU, take control of myself and my life, and get on with it.

I didn't leave for all those long years primarily because she would look me in the eye and SWEAR that nothing happened, that it was all in my head, that I was just being paranoid and psycho, and that I should just get over it. She only finally admitted to it, to what I already knew as it was so obvious, only several months ago.

Why did I ask? Because I want the TRUTH. To not LIVE A LIE. I dunno, that may not be important to some, but having solid rock under my feet is important to me. I also kinda thought (hoped) that when I got it out of her she would, having to face it since she verbalized it, apologize to me, and try to build me up and repair the damage to my male self esteem that being put 2nd place did to me.

Didn't happen though.

I started the MMSL, 180, etc, as advised several months ago, and it did work. But it is not natural to me, I think I have been conditioned to invest all of myself in my woman or something. Once work picked up, and I got caught in the cycle of sleep-work-eat-ad nauseaum, I sorta let my action plan slide, and just fell right back into my same old pathetic beta habits I guess.

I dunno why I stay with her, she has a right to be happy, she has a right to want what she really wants. And if wasn't me, then so be it. I think I've been labouring away waiting for her to start doing something to


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

No!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> Reality check: Every single married couple out there chose to marry because they believed that it was the best course of action. Every person *could* long to be with superhotrichcelebrity, but recognized that it's not a realistic hope and instead, they dated and married someone else. Your wife realized EX was not a realistic hope, you and are the someone else she married.


Actually, I am not sure that is the situation. It sounds like they were married at which point:



> One day, me and her were fine, totally in love, the next day, she was stone cold to me, wouldn't answer sms's, was "too tired" to see me wanted to just sleep, etc. My gut got a knot in it, and I knew something was up. I thought about it, and remembered some Canadian chef she had brought up several times, out of context to anything, and she'd go out of her way to say how he was "just a kid" or "really annoying" ie, she was disqualifying him to me trying to throw me off the scent. So it was obvious it was him. And it was.


So she was married, then wanted to trade up but could not. I see that as different. I see that as a reason to get the answers you need, and the reason to hammer until she is honest.



> Take care of yourself. Spend your time around people who appreciate and value you while you rebuild your self-esteem. Stop placing your happiness in the hands of someone who isn't meeting your needs, and build your own happiness that's part of YOU, no matter what's going on around you. Control yourself and your own life instead of trying to make others fit in the way you want.


This, I absolutely agree with, but with one caveat - do it for yourself. Don't do it for her or the marriage. Do it so that you are happy. If she decides she wants to come along, you get to decide whether that is something you want to do. But if you do it because you think it will make her want you, I guarantee she will sniff it out and it won't work. So work on yourself for you.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> After repeated arguments, my wife finally admits "Yes, if that man at my work had wanted me, I would have left you for him"
> 
> Would or could you stay with a woman that admits that?
> 
> ...


Sista Emerald here.

In answer to your question, yes, I "would stay married knowing my spouse had wanted another but couldn't get them."

My current husband was madly-head-over-in-heels with another woman back in 2005-2006. She broke up with him for another man & shattered his heart. He wanted to marry her.

When I met him, he was still mourning the relationship but he was able to find love with me. It may not be the SAME KIND OF LOVE that he had with her, but it IS love. 

I am smart enough to realize that the love is DIFFERENT because we are DIFFERENT people.

It doesn't bother me one bit that he married his 2nd choice. 

His 1st choice was not available to him, just like your wife.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

As long as I am the #1 choice during the marriage I am all good. Otherwise no.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Are you trolling?
> Her 1st serious boyfriend told her a heaps of horrible things about her that have damaged her self esteem and self image.
> 
> She is my wife, and think she is perfect, and think it is wrong that she feels this way about herself, so I tell her that this arsehole was wrong, that she IS beautiful. What the hell is wrong with wanting your wife to feel good about herself?
> ...


Why are you so worried about her self esteem when she so thoughtlessly tramples on yours? Its wonderful and admirable for you to want to lift her up. The problem is she does not appreciate or recipricocate your actions nor even value your input. Some are saying she didnt mean what she said about choosing the other guy if he was an option. IMO at least if thats the truth as hurtful as it is you can respect it to some degree if it is the truth. If she said it out of anger or because you "pushed her" after what she did in betraying you that is so far beyond any decency...i am at a loss to even put words to that.

She values him... and his opinions...that piece of crap above you and if he would come to her today she would go. She said so herself. Not trying to be mean to you but she said that. She is damaged to even want him. You are not going to fix that. She does not see or value what she has in/with you. You are throwing yourself under the bus for someone who would toss you aside for crumbs. You deserve better!


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Poor girl.
> 
> Maybe a shovel and two bags of lime will make her rest easy.


SO Unbelievable and sad!!! Forget about what this says about her. What it says about her feelings for you is you are not even in the "game" you are not her lover, her partner. You are just there. Again, I dont want to be mean to you I just want you to wake up and see whats in front of your eyes. There are women out there who will love, appreciate and cherish you....I am sorry she is not one of them and its not a fault of yours....

sorry i mis quoted...responding to the post where she was so desperate and sad competing for this guys attention


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Sista Emerald here.
> 
> In answer to your question, yes, I "would stay married knowing my spouse had wanted another but couldn't get them."
> 
> ...


Sorry for reviving a zombie thread, but Emerald, FFS, your man went through all his shtt BEFORE he was even with you. My wife did all this to me while she was with me! It's still ongoing. Getting anything out of her is like wrestling an Anaconda. Now that she realizes how bad her admission was, she is bizzarely trying to retract it, at first she said that she never said that. Serious. Now she is trying to say I took it all out of context. Still no sex. Still no life. She's still miserable every moment of every day. We have had numerous marriage counselling sessions, but they prove to be useless since she is the master at evasion and deflection. Our counsellor has FINALLY, after months, woken up to her, and tonight she is with the counsellor on her own, so she can speak openly, and not fcuking lie or evade, for once on her life.

To all the women who told me I was psycho for badgering her, FCUK YOU! I have been proven to be totally right, I never wanted any other woman than her, I showered her with my love, and truly loved her. Yet she really did treat me like crap whilst pining for "badboy". This is my life, it really happened.

Let's see what happens when she comes home.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> After repeated arguments, my wife finally admits "Yes, if that man at my work had wanted me, I would have left you for him"
> 
> Would or could you stay with a woman that admits that?
> 
> ...




You can't stay with a person like this just because you have a child. A child who is already learning terrible life lessons as he watches mom and dad fight.

SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU, SHE HAS NEVER LOVED YOU, AND WILL NEVER LOVE YOU !

You are the ultimate Plan B. And to top it off you don't even have a decent sex life with this woman. 

Why are you still with her ?


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Am I? Read my other threads for some background "sista". And what other term can I use for my wife's mental gymnastics when the phrase "hamsterism" is already available and sums it up so perfectly, and its not like I ever said that to her face, I'm saying it here because I'm venting. But whatever. I'm a male, so must be wrong, that's how it goes huh.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, I reread your post today. It must of hit a wrong nerve that day. I'm pretty sensitive with name calling since my ex h did it on a daily basis. I would never tell anyone they had a hamster mind. It's belittling. I find it disrespectful no matter what the situation would be.

It really looks like you need to get away from her. You don't deserve to be treated that way ever. Divorce is very hard on children no matter what the situation is, but you are much better off away from her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Perhaps IC is the way for her since she lies in MC.

However, if IC doesn't help please remember that your understandable anger and bitterness is not good for your child. Or you.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Would I stay if my wife told me that the only reason she is with me is because another man that she loves won't have her? The answer is NO, I refuse to be anyone's second choice.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Life's short. If you stay with this woman an other minute, you've already wasted more of yours.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Sorry for reviving a zombie thread, but Emerald, FFS, your man went through all his shtt BEFORE he was even with you. My wife did all this to me while she was with me! It's still ongoing. Getting anything out of her is like wrestling an Anaconda. Now that she realizes how bad her admission was, she is bizzarely trying to retract it, at first she said that she never said that. Serious. Now she is trying to say I took it all out of context. Still no sex. Still no life. She's still miserable every moment of every day. We have had numerous marriage counselling sessions, but they prove to be useless since she is the master at evasion and deflection. Our counsellor has FINALLY, after months, woken up to her, and tonight she is with the counsellor on her own, so she can speak openly, and not fcuking lie or evade, for once on her life.
> 
> To all the women who told me I was psycho for badgering her, FCUK YOU! I have been proven to be totally right, I never wanted any other woman than her, I showered her with my love, and truly loved her. Yet she really did treat me like crap whilst pining for "badboy". This is my life, it really happened.
> 
> Let's see what happens when she comes home.


Yes, our situations are quite different.

I re-read your original post. If my husband told me I was his second choice AND treated me like crap the way your wife treats you, I would be LONG GONE...but we don't have children together....that's where it gets complicated.

I understand why you wanted the truth from her & disagree with those that said you "badgered" her for the truth & then couldn't handle the truth.

You were simply trying to understand the "root" of why your wife is miserable.

We can't begin to fix "the problem" until we can identify "the problem."

Good for you for realizing that.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Are you trolling?
> Her 1st serious boyfriend told her a heaps of horrible things about her that have damaged her self esteem and self image.
> 
> She is my wife, and think she is perfect, and think it is wrong that she feels this way about herself, so I tell her that this arsehole was wrong, that she IS beautiful. What the hell is wrong with wanting your wife to feel good about herself?
> ...


She isn't standing up and defending his opinion over yours, she is SHOWING you how much HIS opinion damaged HER self esteem. 

It is no different than parents telling their child how worthless he is, then grows up believing that no matter what he/she does, that he/she is still worthless.

The problem is that what you are doing is also damaging her self esteem...most likely because yours is damaged also.


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

anony2 said:


> The problem is that what you are doing is also damaging her self esteem...most likely because yours is damaged also.


You're right and that is something that she may need IC for as well as cro-magnum. However here he is four months later and things seem as bad as they ever were.

Cro-magnum - how long are you willing to wait for her to open up and be a loving wife?


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

in my tree said:


> You're right and that is something that she may need IC for as well as cro-magnum. However here he is four months later and things seem as bad as they ever were.
> 
> Cro-magnum - how long are you willing to wait for her to open up and be a loving wife?


I've been trying all these long months, trying everything, paying for numerous counseling sessions, we are in the endgame now though finally, and it is up to her to go in IC to sort her own shtt out, otherwise I simply can't be with her, for the sake of my life.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> I've been trying all these long months, trying everything, paying for numerous counseling sessions, we are in the endgame now though finally, and it is up to her to go in IC to sort her own shtt out, otherwise I simply can't be with her, for the sake of my life.


That actually seems like a healthy attitude. Know your limits.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> I've been trying all these long months, trying everything, paying for numerous counseling sessions, we are in the endgame now though finally, and it is up to her to go in IC to sort her own shtt out, otherwise I simply can't be with her, for the sake of my life.


One thing you can't count on is her being honest with her counselor. She is manipulative and cruel, so there isn't a lot of hope in thinking she will act differently with a counselor.

I found this out the hard way. My wife weaved a whole fantasy with the counselor that was all false. It was a horrible thing for me to deal with, finding out by groping in the dark the terrible lies she had told.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Wow. I don't even know where to begin. What a hurtful, mean thing to say to you.

I don't have an answer...I know as a parent I would not split up a home with a small child, but I have never been in your shoes.

I'm sorry for you, for your little one, and for a wife that should count her blessings and shut-up.


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## summergirljea (Jul 17, 2013)

sorry this is happening to you...no I would not stay she does not love you work on yourself and your son good luck


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

You deserve better, you deserve to be the one and only. Would you tell your son to stay if he was in your shoes? Do you think he will look up to you when he grows up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

committed4ever said:


> I don't understand how spouses can say such mean and hateful things to each other such as what I read on TAM and seem like they have no remorse.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah. They should just put it in their journal where their spouse is forbidden to go. I mean its just their method of processing the raw data.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> If I had shown more interest in mathematics in high school I might be a brain surgeon instead of a cop. If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bust his butt every time he jumped.
> It's probably true for everyone on the planet that if he we had found what we perceived to be a better deal we would have married someone else. I freely admit I'm not perfect and my wife could have married someone smarter, better looking, wealthier, funnier, etc. She also could have married a serial killer, a gang banger, or a bum.
> Your wife said something stupidly honest in a moment of stress. The fact is she married you. The fact is she has had the choice every day for 10 years to dump you for something else but she daily chose to stay.
> Don't believe I'd tell my wife that she wasn't good looking enough for someone else. She may decide to prove you wrong.



Uh, no


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> I've been trying all these long months, trying everything, paying for numerous counseling sessions, we are in the endgame now though finally, and it is up to her to go in IC to sort her own shtt out, otherwise I simply can't be with her, for the sake of my life.


Hey "Cro", I guess at the end of the day this stuff is not hard at all. People either want to stay or not. You may decide if they want to stay to have standards how someone that close to you is supposed to treat you.

Like you said, she thought it was the prize of "hey I married you"... 

When you done all you could besides being a willing and dedicated cuckhold and doormat, you gotta take the chips you have left and leave the table. That's pretty much whats going on here.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

anony2 said:


> She isn't standing up and defending his opinion over yours, *she is SHOWING you how much HIS opinion damaged HER self esteem. *
> So why is she not doing anything then???
> And also, you make a very good point.
> But, will there be any time soon ,she will stop abusing OP
> ...



So ,damaged who´s self ea-stem here??

The problem is OP has try d for the longest time.
So when is it enough????


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> After repeated arguments, my wife finally admits "Yes, if that man at my work had wanted me, I would have left you for him"
> 
> Would or could you stay with a woman that admits that?
> 
> ...


A reliable and loyal "stand in". It happens you know. Some of them know they are doing this. Some actually prefer "stand ins" for their long term partner than the men they look at as the man.




The Cro-Magnon said:


> "Just get over it" is another line she has yelled at me more times than I can count.
> 
> She also says that even though I WAS totally correct in everything I suspected about her feelings for him all those years ago, I am STILL an insecure paranoid psycho for having even thought so.
> 
> So even though I was right, somehow in her hamster mind, I am still wrong. I'm left scratching my head wondering how this is not pure, insane doublethink.


Best thing you can do in a situation like this is leave.
My 5yo boy cries when we fight, and is terrified I will leave.



The Cro-Magnon said:


> I dunno, what would a normal man do? This woman has destroyed my self esteem and fcuked my mind. I'm just ranting I guess.


You destroyed your self esteem by hanging in there. You fcuked your mind from listening to her and basing any of your self-esteem off of her perceptions and reactions.


You have to correct this. With such a negative influence, and even if people don't think SHE is negative, it's clear that this one just doesn't work out for you.... You gotta leave and put it behind you.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

treyvion said:


> A reliable and loyal "stand in". It happens you know. Some of them know they are doing this. Some actually prefer "stand ins" for their long term partner than the men they look at as the man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see I put together some words, thoughts and idea's behind these sitches.

If someone has invalidated you and backed up or eroded your self esteem, you have to find away in your mind to not give their criticism any power. And even better ontop of this, is you have to do some of the things that you know you are good with to revalidate yourself and build up enough ego strength.

So yeah, a man who had his masculinity invalidated, while it will be great to get a counselor and all, and figure out how to not give the ex any power, he will be better and quicker served by getting his c0ck wet and making it a normal thing for him.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Cro, this thread is old. You still with her?


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Cro, this thread is old. You still with her?


No, I had to leave her, literally out of self preservation. I don't think any of you grasp how fundamentally she damaged me, and treyvion is right, it is only because I allowed her to.

I'll never know if she cheated on me, I see now I never even really knew her, and could lie about her feelings, and learned how to conceal herself from me, over the years.

I attempted suicide in the end, she called me a joke and something crumpled in my mind, it was one put down too many. I guess I should be thankful she found me, otherwise I would be dead.

I was hospitalized, and have never been back there, other than to pick up my son for the day. She never even really cared, she said through clenched teeth "how could you do this to me" about my attempt to end myself. Think about that.

Mere weeks after my attempt/my leaving, she was already out buying designer high heels, jewellery, dresses, etc, and going out. 

I think she has found that getting a male of the calibre she wanted (super tall, handsome, social, etc) has proven more difficult than she thought, because she looked pretty down and haggard last time i saw her. And she is starting to sms me more frequently about trivial day to day stuff. Not my problem though.

I still love her, I always did, which is why her rejection of me hurt so badly and was so crushing, but I can not be with someone that does not love me.

I'm slowly trying to find my own identity again, as I lost myself being a husband, and trying to repair my fcuked self esteem.

You people would laugh at how ridiculous her disrespect of me was at the end.

I feel better being away from her, and her fcuked up, dysfunctional trouble making family


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

PBear said:


> If your marriage was good, it might be another story. But the way you describe it, no. I wouldn't be sticking around. Why would you? What are you getting from the marriage that you couldn't get from a roommate or dog?
> 
> C


Totally agree. How many married men wouldn't have gone for a victoria's secret model instead of their wife if they were good looking and rich enough to pull it off? People are programmed to try for the best mate they can get, but that doesn't mean they can't be really happy with the person they do get. If your marriage is otherwise crappy though, and it sounds like it is, I'd consider leaving it and finding someone that is happy to have you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Man, I am sorry that something so horrible as a suicide attempt had to be your wake up call.

The first time I read your thread, I wanted to advice you to leave, that as human being you deserved in the least a partner who could put you in first place, but I did not want to be the black bean who were against your attempt to heal your marriage with MC, taking in cosideration you had two kids.

As cruel as I may sound, engrave in your mind forever how her reaction after your life was "safe", was trying to make herself a better catch for other men, at this point it does not matter if she cheated or not, she is someone who evedently don't give a dime about your life and welfare, I mean sure as human being at least she found you and called 911, just as stranger had done to someone who is injured on the Street.

you deserve to be someone number 1, so never let yourself fall again in to a comfort zone thinking that you maybe can make things work out with that woman (I don't even want to call her your wife, she just don't deserve it).


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Thanks for the update. And i thought my wife said mean stuff. How old is she now? Was she pretty? ( from a neutral party pov). Trying to figure her actual drawing power vs reality.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> No, I had to leave her, literally out of self preservation. I don't think any of you grasp how fundamentally she damaged me, and treyvion is right, it is only because I allowed her to. Don't be so tough on yourself; you trusted your spouse. THAT is admirable!
> 
> I still love her, I always did, which is why her rejection of me hurt so badly and was so crushing, but I can not be with someone that does not love me. But someone WILL love you; and you have yourself and your son to look after.
> 
> ...


*Hugs to you and your son and have a safe, joyful holiday season together with your little guy!*


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

This is the first time I read your thread, I too, was going to suggest to divorce your wife. 

I am very sorry to read how desperate you were when you attempted suicide. 

I am glad you are doing much better. Keep up the hope!


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