# What Does a Guy Have To Do?



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Background first...I'm 45, DW is 44. Been married 22 years, together exclusively since I was 19, her 18.

Except for a dry spell that ended Oct 2013 (normal stresses of work, raising kids, and general comfort with eachother), our sex life has been quite exceptional. She has always been multi - orgasming from PIV with or without the aid of a properly placed vibe. 

Here's what frustrates me, and it's gotta change, but she's not hearing me...

I am never in a rush for the piece De resistance. While I do enjoy PIV in many positions, and she thoroughly does so also, I MUST have a long warmup of foreplay. I know it's chemical...The excitement of touching, being touched just builds and builds and builds. Foreplay for me is seemingly more important to my sexual well being than is PIV.

When we are in either the foreplay mode or PIV, we talk dirty to each other. I tell her things like What I fantasize about, what I do with her in this or that setting/situation, what I'm going to do to her next, etc. And she responds physically in in lockstep.

I very much WANT to get her to an O with me performing oral on her. But ALWAYS, just when she's just about to orgasming she makes me stop to go PIV. And the its over so quickly. And it kills my buzz. I'm always ready to go again after a brief rest, so not a HUGE deal. Happened last night as usual. She said she needed a rest, was feeling light headed, and would be ready to go after a brief rest. And the rest, as is often the case turns into her falling asleep, and it's all over.

Last night I told her during my dirty talk that I wanted a BJ to completion (in my office, on the beach, etc), and with this it put her into Orgasm. OK, she wants this too, I thought..she used to do this, but cannot recall the last time she did. Maybe 10 years???

So this morning I woke her up with some touching and she went straight to wanting PIV once her excitement level was high. I obliged her, and she Orgasm in less than 2 minutes, and I did not. And honestly, I'd lost my erection into her 2nd orgasm, I just wasn't into it...

She apologized for O'ing so quickly, and that she couldn't have make do so in that time frame. I told her no need to apologize. During the rest afterward I couldn't stop thinking of that BJ. So I asked her if she would give me one.

She replied that she would after a rest...c'mon, we know what resting leads to...sleeping, not doing. So I had to put her hand down onto me so that she'd know that I'm done resting.

so she got down to business with my much anticipated BJ to completion. I was enjoying what she was doing and just getting to the point where I was ready to complete. ...awesome...

But then she begged me to PIV from behind. Completion DENIED.

So, as I probably should not have done, I obliged her request to take care of her. And, it was over quickly for her, multiple orgasms. For me, none.

I really want that BJ. She does perform oral on me every time we engage, just never to completion. She says when we talk about it that it really turns her on. She's never said to me that she doesn't like the completion aspect, or that she doesn't like the taste or the mess. It's just when it comes down to it, she won't follow through.

what's a guy gotta do to get her to listen and follow through?

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

john1068 said:


> Background first...I'm 45, DW is 44. Been married 22 years, together exclusively since I was 19, her 18.
> 
> Except for a dry spell that ended Oct 2013 (normal stresses of work, raising kids, and general comfort with eachother), our sex life has been quite exceptional. She has always been multi - orgasming from PIV with or without the aid of a properly placed vibe.
> 
> ...



My wifee does the same thing. When she lets me give her oral and she is close to orgasm, she suddenly pulls me up and wants me in her PIV. I am thinking, she wants us to both orgasm together PIV and at the same time. Probably something as simple as that but the ladies won't orgasm from PIV and mainly oral.....

I too need some foreplay but not a lot. When my wifee licks and kisses the back of my neck. BAM, I'm ready to go. She is gentle and seductive doing this to me.

My wifee also gives me BJ's and is getting really good at them but usually just to get me worked up and then PIV. Reason, she doesn't like cum in her mouth. Simple. But we did talk and I have her favorite drink nearby so immediately after her always swallowing, she has her drink and no complaints from her. She even burps, giggles and says cum mouth sometimes.

When my wifee has an orgasm from oral, it takes a lot out of her and she is tired. Getting her to have another orgasm is tough and she doesn't want it. This drains her.

When I orgasm the first time, 5 - 10 minutes later, I could go at it again. But for my wifee, one orgasm for her and she's done for 24+ hours.

My wifee also likes PIV from behind. So I put her legs together as tight as possible, my legs on the outside and I pound her. I can tell she loves this by the sounds she makes and how she moves her body but she will never orgasm from this unless she uses her vib on her during or oral afterwards.

For myself, I take a natural test booster (PCT - post cycle therapy) and this makes the body produce more test naturally and you will be hard and in the mood much more than before. No long foreplay sessions anymore, trust me. You can also take arginine powder 10g with water on an empty stomach just before bed and you will usually wake up hard.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> For myself, I take a natural test booster (PCT - post cycle therapy) and this makes the body produce more test naturally and you will be hard and in the mood much more than before. No long foreplay sessions anymore, trust me. You can also take arginine powder 10g with water on an empty stomach just before bed and you will usually wake up hard.


Thanks, CuddleBug...RE my _needing_ long foreplay. Let me rephrase...I don't physiologically need it...I LOVE foreplay. The longer I can delay my orgasm, the more _high_ I get on the dopamine. And a prolonged dopamine high is better than any drug imaginable. Once I orgasm, it's an immediate downer...like instant...when the vasopressin kicks in, I'm done...just need a little rest, and then I can get going again...


----------



## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

This is a tough one. It almost sounds like you're working the reverse dynamic we normally see; it's usually the guy who is a short-fuse and done, and the woman who, even if she can get off, likes the sustained build. Maybe some wise TAM females can give you perspective from that side.

I assume that you have already sat her down, outside the bedroom and away from the moment, and explained in very plain terms to her that you want a better build-up, and that you want to keep it going without getting to the grand finale for as long as possible. For argument's sake, I also assume she understood, agreed, and had no issue with it. (If this is not true, start here.) Really, if she is going to need down time ("rest") after her orgasm and she gets there very quickly and easily, she should be open to doing what is needed for your pleasure before hers. Should be. That should be the central point of your discussion.

You kind of answered your own question here, along the lines of advice I'd give you:



john1068 said:


> so she got down to business with my much anticipated BJ to completion. I was enjoying what she was doing and just getting to the point where I was ready to complete. ...awesome...
> 
> But then she begged me to PIV from behind. Completion DENIED.
> 
> So, *as I probably should not have done*, I obliged her request to take care of her. And, it was over quickly for her, multiple orgasms. For me, none.


Nope, you should not have.

In this situation, especially since you said she had already had a few orgasms and you guys were on round 2 that morning, I think there is nothing wrong with you smiling and saying in a lighthearted way, "Hey, this is my moment. Get back to work." How would she react to that after asking you for more PIV? If she reacts in a negative manner, then at least you have a starting place for a direct conversation.

It's telling, too, that you are losing your erection during PIV. This speaks to something a little more serious. Not physical (though it could be) but more likely building resentment. This can get worse without some straightforward discussion.

If this discussion has happened and she agrees that you're right and nothing changes ... well, there are more extreme solutions. We can try those later.

Good luck!


----------



## secret10 (Feb 12, 2014)

John, you really have to talk to her. It seems normal to me that she would want PIV when she is ready to orgasm, I mean, I always want my husband inside of me when I'm close. I ask for him to but I don't tell him to. If he wants me to orgasm before he goes inside of me he always tells me he wants me to now and then he will after, or he tells me I can have another later on. When I get to the point of wanting him in side of me, usually fingers will be enough that I don't care anymore anyway.

Okay, I'm done with the embarrassing personal stuff. Go talk to her and find out what's up. Tell her while she is sleeping you cannot sleep because you are still waiting. When she is sleeping afterwards, if you start touching her again she doesn't wake back up?

Also, talking in my own code... O's from the outside mean finished, done and don't need more, from the inside mean they come over and over again. 

I wish my dh could be ready more than once, someone is gonna have to fill me in on how I can help him do that.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Did she not say anything about you having no orgasm? Dis she even notice?


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Did she not say anything about you having no orgasm? Dis she even notice?


She did notice. She felt bad that I didn't, because I normally do. When we were young, I'd be able to go maybe three times before I was spent. then in the middle years, i was a one-time guy, with her being multiple. Now at 45, I'm back to myself being able to go multiple times...odd, but a welcome change for me...and her as well. 

Last night we were talking about health stuff, generally, and she brought up that she was concerned that I didn't orgasm...that awkward moment that I'd have to do what I knew I needed to do and just tell her that it wasn't a health related failure, but an intimacy/expectation related failure.

So I told her that I obliged her for her own satisfaction at the expense of my own. That I was really expecting what I'd asked for, and that I was dang near completion when she begged me for PIV. It was an expectation not met and that while mentally I did do what she asked when she asked, It was not what I really wanted to do at the moment.

She apologized for missing what I was asking. Apologized for being selfish, and that she'd rectify it later with a wink.

Problem is, I knew what that meant...so she know's I've read MMSLP, and his similes to food and what each food at a restaurant mean - Sushi = BJ, ribs = dirty, nasty...she wanted ribs for lunch, and referenced that part of MMSLP, so she was thinking about dirty, nasty stuff. Cool, something to which to look forward....

She got caught up in the Oscars, I was doing the dishes for her at around 11:30. She'd commentd earlier in the evening that her neck was sore, so I'd rubbed it for her. And then she asked if later tonight she could have an "all-over" massage. We both knew what that entailed...so we're still on the path.

As she was getting up to go up to bed, I'd asked her if she would be ready for that all-over massage when I came up. her answer..."well, I've gotta get a load of laundry dried".

Not, "heck yes, but first I need to do this load of laundry, then I'll be ready," or "heck yes, the laundry can wait," there was no "yes" to my query. She obfuscated. OK, not gonna happen after all.

While in bed, she came up to snuggle with me, which is always welcome. She apologized for not wanting anything tonight. And also apologized for not meeting my BJ expectation earlier in the day. Then promised that she'd return my expectation twice tomorrow (which is now today). 

I'm no fool. Three kids to get off to school. She's got a meeting in the morning until lunch. Youngest gets home from school at noon. I've got coaching my oldest's hockey team in the evening...Dollars to donuts that that promise will not be fulfilled.

I'm leaning towards a PIV moratorium for while, like is described in NMMNG...dont' want to. But may have to.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Go ahead with the PIV, just don't complete her. Drag it out for her, as you enjoy dragging it out for yourself. Go down on her, PIV for a little, then work on other parts of her body again, go down on her again, etc. Get her worked up to the point where she's begging for it. Take control. So don't get a BJ to completion. Cum on her skin instead. Lube her boobs, go between them. Other such things. She's going to ache for PIV, and you will give it to her, but she needs to take care of you, too. 

Sounds like she has control of the bedroom. You need to assert your control. It's a shared thing, a back-and-forth thing.

She talks the talk, but you don't make her walk the walk. You give in to what she wants. This is a generous thing you do in your bedroom for your wife, and I'm not criticizing it, but if you're not getting what you need, and you are still otherwise having regular sex, then it's time you put your foot down (gently but assertively). It's a trade-off. She gets hers, but you get yours, too.


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Why don't you get a bj to start off with since you can still do multiples? 

Maybe she is just the type that losses energy afterwards and feels that a stand alone BJ is not sexy.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

The way that played out was not cool - but I'm glad you leveled with her about the BJ and what happened earlier in the day.


----------



## 312cpl (Jan 27, 2014)

I wouldn't change anything at this time. 

being married that long, you know things change all the time.
For her, it could be anything from kids, cabin fever, parents, work, hormones. When my w and I have sex, three out of four times she wants me to finish PIV. To her, it is an emotional deposit, literally  Its part of me, in her. It makes her feel warm and fuzzy. Other times, she will say softly, where do you want to finish? Which is code to me that she is okay "emotionally" and I can finish orally. 

If you change things because your not getting what you need now, then she will not like your choice of dealing with this issue. She wants someone that'll be there for her through these changes. Whether she understands them herself or not. There is a reason she is making these choices, whether she is aware of it or not. She doesn't sound like a person that would intentionally make these choices to deprive you. 

I would put my needs to the side for now. Keep talking about it. Short discussions, don't be confrontational about it. Don't show her you are angry or upset. Just follow her lead for a few weeks. agree with her needs first. It'll turn around soon.


----------



## kalimata (Jan 29, 2014)

sorry but what does PIV mean?


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Penis in Vagina


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

john1068 said:


> While in bed, she came up to snuggle with me, which is always welcome. She apologized for not wanting anything tonight. And also apologized for not meeting my BJ expectation earlier in the day. Then promised that she'd return my expectation twice tomorrow (which is now today).


How often does it occur where she will make a promise then not follow through?

If often, the best result is to call her on it at the time she makes the promise. In the case above, just say I hear the promise, but we will see what happens tomorrow. Make clear you heard that same promise this morning and saw how that went. Tomorrow does not look any better, so you are not holding your breath.

I had this issue with my wife. It did not improve until I was blunt that her goal of placating me now was not working because I no longer believed her promises.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> How often does it occur where she will make a promise then not follow through?


Maybe 50%? We have a pretty good sex life overall. I don't want to come off as being a whiny puss considering the company I'm in where the are sexless...

Last night came and I was fully expecting nothing to happen. We went to bed, and she was acting playfully, not sexually, just being playful...She snuggled up to me, but usually she twists her legs up with mine, but not tonight - her legs were pretty far away...this is her usual position when she is menstruating...she keeps a bit of distance. So I was firmly believing that nothing would happen, just her body language.

She then asked why I had a tshirt on...and then why I had underpants on...then pulled the blankets back up...damn, she was acting strange...like she was wanting to start the BJ, but was afraid to approach me.

She stayed curled up with me, but laid on her back, exposing her breasts to the opportunity for me to go to work on them. I did a little bit, but it did not appear to be effective. She still just laid there. I stopped.

She got up, walked over to our BR door, closed it...things are looking up.

She walked over to our "lock box" which is full of our toys. She grabbed the AstroGlide, her bullet, and a packet of Pop Rocks (don't judge! It's pretty cool). Then pulled the blankets down and yanked my pants off.

Yeah, she followed through...to completion. 

I let go of the animosity I had built up...we talked about it afterward and she understands now how important it is to me. And here's the kicker...While I felt compelled to try to service her afterward, she refused...this was not a quid pro quo moment, I owed her nothing, she said. She told me to just enjoy her service, no strings....

I must say, as a recovering Mr. Nice Guy, this was very difficult to manage. But I did, and I woke up in one heck of a good mood.

Thanks for the help friends...


----------



## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

john1068 said:


> She walked over to our "lock box" which is full of our toys. *She grabbed the AstroGlide, her bullet, and a packet of Pop Rocks *(don't judge! It's pretty cool). Then pulled the blankets down and yanked my pants off.


I think I am putting you on my "Dudes I am in Awe of list".


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

...beg, plead and promise to do all the ironing for a month!


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Um, so, what's the deal with the pop rocks? I'm always looking for a new twist on a BJ for my husband. Care to share?


----------



## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

If this is true and not an old man version of high school locker room conquest erotica, you should re-title your thread:

"MMSL causes ED"​
because you read there, got resentful and a "grass is greener" attitude toward your wife (who did not deserve this a bit!!!), and got ED.

Porn use causes ED too. Is my erectile dysfunction (ED) related to my porn use? | Your Brain On Porn

Vanilla is dissed a LOT @ here but it is the wholesome, healthy, "meat and potatoes". I will never understand why a man will throw away a good thing because he covets cotton candy


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

For the same reason you might want to live in a nice house instead of a shack or eat different foods instead of the same food every meal and for the same reason we have the modern world.

People want to experience the best of what life has to offer and not settle for the minimum. 

I do think I understand your point and yes I agree that we should be content with good old plain loving sex. But doing that is harder than just saying it. 

My wife likes me to give her an O through touch before PiV where she will also O. While I do enjoy giving her pleasure I could certainly do without that. Does that mean that she is unreasonable for wanting it? Does it mean that maybe she is addicted to porn?


----------



## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

to have resentment/chip on shoulder...

to threaten go on sexual strike and withhold PIV if she won't __________

to do this to a wife who sounds by any measure to be extraordinarily accommodating

I find it MASSIVELY disrespectful.

If his W came on here and said he was on PIV strike unless and until she performs blah blah blah sex act in his prescribed manner... I'd tell her he is breaking his M vows to LOVE and to CHERISH and it is grounds for divorce (not to mention disrespectful and maybe even abusive). If my H did it to me, that would be the day I called the lawyer.

If a wife comes on here and says she is on sexual strike because her husband won't, IDK- insert female fantasy/ Caribbean cruise? No PIV unless and until!!! I can just imagine the condemnation...

John do me a favor and keep your sons away from my daughters!!!! I want them treated better than this.


----------



## Csquare (Jan 14, 2014)

Funny. OP's "bad sex" (her multiple O's, his long duration, both partners willing and actively engaged) sounds pretty blissful by most standards. What was the problem again?


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I don't know Blonde, 
if my wife put on a PiV moratorium because I was not giving her, her HJ's before PiV I do not think that I would condemn her for that. 

I would feel like that is what I deserve for not respecting her basic needs.

I think that any woman that came to TAM who was complaining that all her husband wanted to do is straight sex with no foreplay and no other affection she would certainly not be condemned but her husband would.


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Blonde said:


> If this is true and not an old man version of high school locker room conquest erotica, you should re-title your thread:
> 
> "MMSL causes ED"​
> because you read there, got resentful and a "grass is greener" attitude toward your wife (who did not deserve this a bit!!!), and got ED.
> ...





Blonde said:


> to have resentment/chip on shoulder...
> 
> to threaten go on sexual strike and withhold PIV if she won't __________
> 
> ...


Blondie, did I miss something? I don't see where John was threatening a PIV strike. And my advice for him was to still do it, but make it more tantalizing. He needs to get his, too. 

I guess the last comment you made about his sons and your daughters kinda tipped my scale a little. I generally appreciate your posts, but I must've missed something big to not know what the heck you're talking about. It seemed uncalled for.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Blonde said:


> to have resentment/chip on shoulder...
> 
> to threaten go on sexual strike and withhold PIV if she won't __________
> 
> ...


But this isn't what was happening.
She agreed to do something for him, but then turned at the last minute, like she was playing him. She did that more than once. He spoke to her about it and she did it again. He was frustrated with her response.
I hope that if she had a problem with what he was asking from her she would explain it and they could work it out.
I don't necessarily agree with the whole withholding PIV thing either. There are better ways to resolve conflict.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Um, so, what's the deal with the pop rocks? I'm always looking for a new twist on a BJ for my husband. Care to share?


OMG I'm hanging here! I got the pop rocks for tonight! WHAT DO I DO?????


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Pop rocks fizzle and pop in your mouth. You can find a lot of info googling "pop rocks blowjob" 

Guys do not seem to feel the difference but I guess it makes it taste sweeter at least. -Probably just something fun to do different.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> Pop rocks fizzle and pop in your mouth. You can find a lot of info googling "pop rocks blowjob"
> 
> Guys do not seem to feel the difference but I guess it makes it taste sweeter at least. -Probably just something fun to do different.


Alright, Google it is. But OP did say, "it's pretty cool," which made me think it felt good for HIM. I don't mind the taste of my husband or his spunk, but I'm not a fan of pop rocks!


----------



## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Easy solution. She seems sexual, she seems to be open, and you seem to have a pretty good sex life. 

Rather than dirty talk about your fantasies you want in the future, the entire time she is giving your oral, dirty talk about how bad you want to cum in her mouth. Dirty talk how you want to finish in her mouth and how nothing feels better than her lips on your ****. Dirty talk about wanting her to taste you. Dirty talk about wanting to feed her your seeds and watch her swallow you. 

If dirty talk isn't an issue, then don't be scared to dirty talk as she gives you oral. It will motivate her to go harder. Make sure you say that after she swallows your cum you are going to make her orgasm so many times she won't be able to walk for a week. Excite her.

I just don't see her asking for PIV when all your dirty talk is about finishing. She will get the point. You just have to quit "obliging" every time and have her oblige you a few times.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Um, so, what's the deal with the pop rocks? I'm always looking for a new twist on a BJ for my husband. Care to share?


Wife puts the pop rocks in her mouth then goes to town...The snaps and pops of the rocks add to the sensation a good way....discovered this when we were young and she revived it...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Update...she heard me. She's figured this out without forcing me to press her. She really enjoyed herself with that BJ...and I got another one last night...now don't get me wrong...I dont expect this every time...that would be too routine. 

But it is great progress. She's been definitely HD this week...One would think that after 25 years of sex with eachother we'd understand each other better, but I guess it always needs some attention to the details regardless of time together...

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Glad to hear it! Really encourage her that she is doing a great job on you, it makes us want to please our husband's even more.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

OK...something happened, er didn't happen last night. And it solidifies in me that this issue I have is not thatI MUST HAVE sex act A or B. It's that sometimes my DW DOES hear me but chooses to not fulfill the request.

case in point was last night. She asked for a massage, and the suggested that if Juan were to come by for an all - over massage, she'd really enjoy that (Juan is my latin masseur alter ego) - the meaning of this is quite clear to both of us.

While i gave her a completely professional deep massage for around 20 minutes, Juan entered the room and took over.

perhaps 10 minutes of Juan's capable work, my DW was ready for the happy ending, so Juan got down to the dirty business.

The details are unimportant. I will say that the sex was great for both of us. It was very satisfying. And if had ended there I would have laid back and let her cuddle up in my side.

But as we laid there, my DW noticed that I still had an erection (I'm 45, I cannot explain why I again have the drive I had when I was 18). So as she got up to go to potty she asked if I could go again. To which I said yes. Her response "Wow, I'll be right back".

Now, what does that mean in that context? It was clear to me that she'd be right back for round 2. Right?

Well, she came back not 3 minutes later, pulled on her panties and pajamas, and curled up in my arms...and went to sleep. 

Why ask me if I want to go again, say you'll be right back when you're not wanting or willing to fulfill that want. Why not say, "baby, I just don't have it in me to go again tonight"? Why make me believe you're coming back for a second round and then with her body language and direct actions say "not a chance that I'm gonna go a second round tonight, good night"?

This passive sh!t really annoys me.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I suppose that it is a question of how she said it John.

she asked "could you go *a-gain*? 

Can be just a question and not a request. She was simply curious if you could do it more than once. 

"Wow, I'll be right back"

Wow = that is surprising because I sure can't 

I'll be right back = it will only take me a moment to get cleaned up and than I will be back for some snuggling.


Assuming she does not have any problems talking about sex why did you not say: 

"Oh I thought when you said that you meant that you wanted to do it again?"


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> I suppose that it is a question of how she said it John.
> 
> she asked "could you go *a-gain*?
> 
> ...


All very good points. For me, I interpret under the context in which the exchange took place.

She acknowledged that I was visibly (to her) still rearin' to go, and I responded affirmatively.

Her reply, "wow, I'll be right back" seemed to me a pretty clear acceptance of my desire for another shot. To add to the context, when she was rolling out of bed (after cleaning herself up with our _special_ towel), I asked her where she was off to. She replied that she had to pee (as opposed to going to clean herself up).

That's when she noted my continuing erection, then her "wow" comment.

Now the truth is, I lost most of that erection in the time that it took her to take care of her business, but such is the case with no stimulation. But when she rolled immediately into dressing for sleep, either forgetting or outright ignoring my desire that she had acknowledged only three minutes prior, it was another WTF moment. 

I know that perhaps this is a female physiology issue...but sex to me is not like an intense hockey practice (best analogy I have, as I played through college). Where the physical beating during that two hours made our inner monologue BEG for the beating to be over so we could rest. I could do it over and over again, with maybe several minutes rest in between, for hours with a willing partner...like we used to. 

I know, I accept that scenario as unrealistic. ANd i further acknowledge that I am really, really, REALLY into my DW, even after 25 years of otherwise satisfying sex...everything is relative to what I expect, not to what I should change my expectations to be. No doubt, I am clearly seriously addicted to the Dopamine rush. And I believe that my post-orgasm vasopressin is lower than it used to be, so I stay high longer instead of crashing into a sleep...

I cannot explain what's happening to me any other way...I turned 45 and my sexual behavior is all messed up in a way that I would think would be welcome to a woman. But accept that it may be just too much...

And I feel like a total ass for filing this grievance here, given that so many here on this very board would kill to have what I have. So for that, I apologize. It's like money...whenever you achieve one income level, you move on to the next level. It's never enough.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

starslight said:


> My spouse does the equal business. As she allows me hand out her moutful and she is near to cum, she abruptly hauls me upward and desires me in her FIV. I am cogitating, she craves us to each cum in tandem VOV and simultaneously. Arguably something as plain as this only the women won't cum from PIV and mainly TOC...


Starlight, lots of acronyms here. I got lost in what you were conveying...

FIV - is this Face or Finger in Vagina?
VOV - is this Vagina on Vagina?
TOC - is this Tongue on Clitoris?

All that being said, can I presume that your are in a same-sex marriage? Not a judgement, just trying to understand.

That assumption being the case, neither of you have the option of PIV together, except as phallic dildos/vibrators allow. 

Are you saying that this also frustrates you that just before orgasm, your partner changing up throws you off? Or is this acceptable to you?


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Assuming that your wife is not really uptight about talking (and she does not seem to be a particularly repressed woman) 

I think that you could just avoid these types of misunderstanding by better communications. My wife is a definite sleep and or no serious conversations after sex and I am sure that she just assumes that is the way I am also. 

I just don't think that this even occurred to your wife and she would be very surprised if she read that post.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> Assuming that your wife is not really uptight about talking (and she does not seem to be a particularly repressed woman)
> 
> I think that you could just avoid these types of misunderstanding by better communications. My wife is a definite sleep and or no serious conversations after sex and I am sure that she just assumes that is the way I am also.
> 
> I just don't think that this even occurred to your wife and she would be very surprised if she read that post.


thanks, usmarriedguy. Good observation. She is not uptight in the least about about talking. After further thought about the exchange last night, I still have fleeting cling-ons of my Mr. Nice Guy Syndrome, which I've been working very hard on casting off. Unfortunately, these covert contracts creep in every once in a while. And while I think that last nights exchange could barely be considered a covert contract, I do acknowledge that there was a lacking of a negotiated contract - there was no offer, and there was no acceptance. Only an assumption of performance. I guess that made it a covert contract. And I'm at fault for it's failure of execution.

I'll not hold a grudge on this. I do need to improve my communication. Need to pull out NMMNG for some brushing up.


----------



## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

It is difficult to keep from wanting a spouse to be more responsive. To wish or expect them to do this or that when they are not thinking of this stuff at all. Anyway -sounds like you have a pretty good one even if sex is not always on her mind.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Update: I guess my DW isn't so "open" to such discussions after all...On Friday, she again did not follow through with something that she'd been talking about several times throughout the day...It wasn't a particularly stressful day for either of us, no arguments or anything...she just went to sleep.

So last night I told her that I didn't understand this saying one thing, but doing another. And she flipped out...that she feels like she's under a microscope, that I"m micro analyzing her...it just got worse from there. I really had not thoughts at all that this was how she would behave. 

For YEARS i kept my feelings to myself, at my own peril. My DW needed me to share my feelings with her. She begged me to do so for so long. Now that I'm finally doing it, she doesn't really want me to. She actually told me to tell me to focus on the good feelings, and to not be so vocal about the bad things...it makes her feel like sh!t, like she's inadequate....We argued until 3 in the morning...and she said some stuff that pushed me to the edge...

Not a good weekend, not sure how to proceed.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

It is good to be open with your wife, but it is important that the good outweigh the bad. Build her as well as complaining. It's not an equal balance either. Negatives take a lot of currency. Make sure you are noticing and appreciating her and making many deposits into her love bank. Have you heard of the emotional bank account? If you are not making enough deposits to cover the withdrawals, you could have serious trouble ahead. Here is an article I wrote on this subject that could help you: Love Covers a Multitude of Sins | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

John You and your wife have a great sex life! I think the bj issue may not mean what you think. It made you take notice, changed things up a bit, added some interest. I don't think she ever intended to deny you permanently. 

Could have been that she wanted you to pursue her, reassure her that you liked what she was doing and be dominant. 

It may not have been comfortable for you but it was a little different. In the context of a good sexual relationship, it may be that she was playing you. After 25 good years, why not?


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

john1068 said:


> Update: I guess my DW isn't so "open" to such discussions after all...On Friday, she again did not follow through with something that she'd been talking about several times throughout the day...It wasn't a particularly stressful day for either of us, no arguments or anything...she just went to sleep.
> 
> So last night I told her that I didn't understand this saying one thing, but doing another. And she flipped out...that she feels like she's under a microscope, that I"m micro analyzing her...it just got worse from there. I really had not thoughts at all that this was how she would behave.
> 
> ...


I think Cynthia is right. Could it be that she wants more balanced communication? For every bad thing, try to tell her 5 good things. In other words, try not to communicate about bad things only, let her know you are happy in general. 

Look at the way you voice your concerns, ask yourself if it sounds like you are blaming her. Find a way to voice your unhappiness without making it seem like there is something wrong with her. 

Make it something wrong about the situation and how it feels to you and what you want her to do to remedy the situation. Assume she is not out to hurt or annoy you. 

Two other things - fights are good, means are both engaged in the relationship. Not fighting means you have totally checked out. however they have to be fair. 

Once you both cool off, agree on your boundaries and her's when fighting. 

2nd thing, when you tell her about the bad, listen and hear what she says even if her tone is defensive. Try not to escalate but if she is disrespectful, tell her.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

john1068 said:


> OK..
> Well, she came back not 3 minutes later, pulled on her panties and pajamas, and curled up in my arms...and went to sleep.
> 
> Why ask me if I want to go again, say you'll be right back when you're not wanting or willing to fulfill that want. Why not say, "baby, I just don't have it in me to go again tonight"? Why make me believe you're coming back for a second round and then with her body language and direct actions say "not a chance that I'm gonna go a second round tonight, good night"?
> ...


When it was apparent she was not going for a 2nd round, why did you not ask her in a light humorous way "what's happened, did you flush your get up and go away, not me, get up "?


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> It is good to be open with your wife, but it is important that the good outweigh the bad. Build her as well as complaining. It's not an equal balance either. Negatives take a lot of currency. Make sure you are noticing and appreciating her and making many deposits into her love bank. Have you heard of the emotional bank account? If you are not making enough deposits to cover the withdrawals, you could have serious trouble ahead. Here is an article I wrote on this subject that could help you: Love Covers a Multitude of Sins | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World


Thank you for your comment. I know of the love bank well. End of October 2013 I bought His Needs Her Needs and read it cover to cover in the first day. Read it a couple more times since. Go to it for reference now and again. And I buy into that concept. 

I also read No More Mr. Nice Guy, so am trying to balance the two. I giver her massages without being asked and when she asks (without my needing a happy ending), I do my share of chores around the house (and do some she normally does, just to take it off her plate), I taker her out on dates (even painting classes, cooking classes, ferris wheel in the city, engaging things), I cook her favorite meals, I notice her hair, her general and specific looks and compliment her. I'm filling her bank often.

And while she does fill mine, it's a reduced rate comparatively. 

Example: Friday we were driving, lightly talking about us, our kids, etc. I had a vasectomy in October 2013. Can't have kids any longer. I expressed to her my sadness that we couldn't have another child...I still really wanted that daughter after three boys (DW is now 44, I'm 45, another child makes little sense). I told her how great of a mother she was. She questioned me on that...she still does great things for our boys (5, 15, 17), decorates their rooms and car for birtdhays, holidays. Things my mother never did for me. And I told her absolutely she IS the best mother imaginable. Coming from me, who had a mother who loved me, but didn't do warm motherly things for me, I know how great of a mother she is. And she replied with "that is, I think, the nicest thing you've ever said to me before."

In our fight, she told me that it really wasn't a nice thing to say. Because it came from a place of sadness from me, that she's only great in comparison to how not great my own mother was...

All I thought was W T F???? It's hard to fill the love bank with getting that crap in return...using my deep felt feelings as a weapon against me. Crushing.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> I think Cynthia is right. Could it be that she wants more balanced communication? For every bad thing, try to tell her 5 good things. In other words, try not to communicate about bad things only, let her know you are happy in general.
> 
> Look at the way you voice your concerns, ask yourself if it sounds like you are blaming her. Find a way to voice your unhappiness without making it seem like there is something wrong with her.
> 
> ...


We did get over the argument, and settled in bed snuggling, not mad. And we did come up with a safety word to prevent the snowball effect of a fight...because our fights digress so rapidly...

We agreed to say "unicorn" and that means lets agree to end this now...it's funny to say in the heat of the moment, and both of us will know that we need to stop...we'll see if it works going forward.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

john1068 said:


> I know that perhaps this is a female physiology issue...but sex to me is not like an intense hockey practice (best analogy I have, as I played through college). Where the physical beating during that two hours made our inner monologue BEG for the beating to be over so we could rest. *I could do it over and over again, with maybe several minutes rest in between, for hours with a willing partner...like we used to. *
> 
> I know, I accept that scenario as unrealistic. ANd i further acknowledge that I am really, really, REALLY into my DW, even after 25 years of otherwise satisfying sex...*everything is relative to what I expect, not to what I should change my expectations to be. No doubt, I am clearly seriously addicted to the Dopamine rush. * And I believe that my post-orgasm vasopressin is lower than it used to be, so I stay high longer instead of crashing into a sleep...
> 
> I cannot explain what's happening to me any other way...*I turned 45 and my sexual behavior is all messed up in a way that I would think would be welcome to a woman. But accept that it may be just too much...*


To me, it seem pretty clear that your wife is not in the same place as you. She doesn't want it for hours, she doesn't want multiple go-rounds, she gets tired after her orgasm and quickly falls asleep after instead of being wide awake and wanting more, the changes in your sexual behavior are not necessarily understood by her. And likely they aren't entirely welcome, either.

You say that you accept it may be just too much, but you don't come across that way. It sounds like you don't accept it and are constantly pissed that you aren't getting more. Maybe you aren't constantly resentful, but that's how it's coming across to me. And maybe that's how you're coming across to her, too.



> So last night I told her that I didn't understand this saying one thing, but doing another. And she flipped out...that she feels like she's under a microscope, that I"m micro analyzing her...it just got worse from there. I really had not thoughts at all that this was how she would behave.


I am not at all surprised she said this. Because I was thinking the same thing - wow, for a guy who says he loves his DW and recognizes that you two have a great sex life, you sure seem to be spending a lot of time analyzing and dwelling on and agonizing about it. 

As a random internet forum reader, it felt to me like you had her under observation, a microscope, each movement noted, documented, ruminated upon, and judged. Assumptions - you make a lot of assumptions about what she does and why. You ascribe motives when you don't really know why she says and does things. 

Maybe it's time to put MMSL down, step away from the computer and all your reading and dwelling about sex lives, and go live your life with this woman you love. _Reconnect with your wife. You're on the same team._ 

You've been creating distance between you with the way you are dealing with your current sexual expectations. I'm not saying you shouldn't have expectations or that yours are wrong or whatever. I'm saying the way you are going about this is pushing your wife away from you, which in turn, will lead to even less satisfying sex life because she will start to see sex as a minefield.


----------



## john1068 (Nov 12, 2013)

norajane said:


> To me, it seem pretty clear that your wife is not in the same place as you. She doesn't want it for hours, she doesn't want multiple go-rounds, she gets tired after her orgasm and quickly falls asleep after instead of being wide awake and wanting more, the changes in your sexual behavior are not necessarily understood by her. And likely they aren't entirely welcome, either.
> 
> You say that you accept it may be just too much, but you don't come across that way. It sounds like you don't accept it and are constantly pissed that you aren't getting more. Maybe you aren't constantly resentful, but that's how it's coming across to me. And maybe that's how you're coming across to her, too.
> 
> ...


Under a microscope, ONLY because it's about sex? Certainly no more so than when my DW challenges me in how I wash the dishes. Or how I made the bed. Or how I vacuum. Or how I dust. Or how I keep my office. Or how I put away the Christmas decorations. Or how I don't "listen" simply because I forgot to do something she asked or failed to recall something she has said...

She has challenged me on all of these things in the last 3 months...Under a microscope? Maybe. We had gone into a near sexless marriage until October 2012,when I saw the light. I opened up and started tomeet her need for me to share my feelings. And my opopenness since then has bee all about noticing her. Appreciating her. And expressing my love, and giving her the strokes. Satisfying her emotional need to connect with me.

I think it completely hypocritical that I can only giver her the validation, yet hide from her that I, too, have needs. That's not being critical, in my opinion. It's being open and honest.

I don't live and breath by NMMNG or MMSLP. ..they are good reads and have been quite helpful.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Since she ask you to be more open and you are doing that, ask her how she is feeling about that. Bring it up when you talk about your needs. 

When she complains about the way you do chores don't react with anger or frustration. Just keep doing what you are doing and be light about it. 

Give her a kiss when your finish and tell her you love her in a light humorous way. This may not be your personality but keep it light.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

john1068 said:


> Under a microscope, ONLY because it's about sex? Certainly no more so than when my DW challenges me in how I wash the dishes. Or how I made the bed. Or how I vacuum. Or how I dust. Or how I keep my office. Or how I put away the Christmas decorations. Or how I don't "listen" simply because I forgot to do something she asked or failed to recall something she has said...
> 
> She has challenged me on all of these things in the last 3 months...Under a microscope? Maybe. We had gone into a near sexless marriage until October 2012,when I saw the light. I opened up and started tomeet her need for me to share my feelings. And my opopenness since then has bee all about noticing her. Appreciating her. And expressing my love, and giving her the strokes. Satisfying her emotional need to connect with me.
> 
> ...


Criticizing dishwashing is different than being criticized sexually. It feels different to recipient, no? Instead of how you wash dishes or dust, what if she took notes on everything you do sexually and then criticized all the things you aren't doing right? Sexual criticism feels a lot more personal, doesn't it? You don't give a sh*t how you do the dishes; doesn't make you feel less of a man. Sexual criticism would make you feel less of a man. So you'd get more defensive and hostile about any criticism about your sexuality. That's where she is.

All I'm saying is, if you want an improved sex life, you seem to currently be going about it in such a way as to alienate and distance your wife. You can feel it's all unfair and hypocritical, but the bottom line is, you aren't making her want to have more and better sex with you with the approach you've been taking. She has made that clear. You can keep doing what you're doing, and push her further away. Or not. 

You said _you _don't even understand what's going on with you sexually these days, like why your sexuality has changed and you now get erection after erection after orgasms when you used to be one and done. If even you don't understand the changes, you can bet your wife doesn't either. To her, you're probably very different than a year ago, or whenever these physical changes started happening to you, and your expectations of her have changed as well, confusing her.

I'd focus on that for starters - helping her understand that you have changed lately, what has become different for you, and how. Then you can maybe talk about meeting each other half-way, rather than having all these expectations and being pissed that she doesn't meet them. Imagine a woman nearing menopause who gets that surge of hormones for a while that make her want more sex than she has in the last 5 years combined...she explains it to H that she's become very HD due to her hormones and the upcoming menopause and it's making her crazy and isn't sure how to handle it and asks for her H to help her and work on it together. Now imagine that same woman just criticizing him for not getting it up 3 times a day instead. Who gets the better result? The communicator or the critic?

Again, you're on the same team. Approach each other like adversaries, and you've already seen what you get as a result.


----------

