# My fiance just broke off our engagement, I lost it all



## dragonfly92

I was engaged for 4 months until last week. I've been eating nothing but junk food. 

My fiance's female cousin showed him her diary and an old recorder I had no idea she had, of us calling her a loser, the W word and a bunch of other things in HS (we did other stuff too). Though there was no footage, my voice was heard the most. I was the main ringleader back then. I'm now 25.

Prior to that, I knew who she was when my fiance mentioned that she was going to stop by for a couple weeks. She doesn't have fb. I really thought I could just start all over with her so I pretended not to remember her (even invited her to a girl's hang out with my friends but she declined it; I also gave her a chocolate box when meeting her again but found out she gave it to someone else). She wouldn't let it go and kept mentioning a couple times about if I remembered her when we were alone in private or sarcastically saying at the dining table in front of everyone ''It's so interesting that we never met before''. 

I admitted that I lost my cool after too much of that and in private when she tried again to make a sarcastic comment, I said ''Leave me alone already. Go away. What proof you got anyways Dorka''. I reverted back to calling her by her old HS nickname Dorka since her name is Dorothy. I was pissed off at that moment.

I wanted to take it all back but it was too late. She showed it the following day. My fiance says he needs time to think about all this.

Update as of today:
I received a message from her on my fb (apparently she just created a fb act) that she just wants to talk and if I can meet her. I set it up for Saturday. Not sure if there is any point at this moment. My fiance just broke off the engagement an hour ago. Help. 

Any suggestions would be helpful.


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## farsidejunky

You should have been honest from the get go.

Cold comfort...I know...but let it serve as a lesson in your life moving forward.

Now...why did you revert to calling her dorka again? You were in that position TWICE from your own doing...once then, once now.

You have some growing to do, OP.


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## Rubix Cubed

Not to be harsh but Kharma's a *****.
You had your opportunity to apologize and instead you reverted back into a bully calling her names. 
Seems she played you and got her revenge and it will likely cost you your fiance. If you meet up with her you might try an apology, but if you don't intend to actually mean it don't bother.


> Not sure if there is any point at this moment. My fiance just broke off the engagement an hour ago.


 If the only reason you'd want to smooth things over with her is to get your fiance back then the point is lost anyway.


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## dragonfly92

My transgression back to my HS version when I called her Dorka was the result of feeling pestered/harrassed by her so much and her unwillingness to start all over as strangers meeting for the first time; to see how I've changed. I felt trapped and didn't know what to do so I reacted.
Prior to that argument, I tried everything possible to make her feel comfortable. I've tried so hard to move away from my past. I didn't want to be reminded of the time I was such an awful person.


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## sokillme

None of you are mature enough to be married. You all act like you are in highschool. Not a good sign.


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## dragonfly92

I was nervous from the beginning when I found out she was coming over. I knew she was still hurt by her expression when my fiance and I kissed. 
I know I had the opportunity several times (my deceased father would have been proud if I had just apologized from day 1, the moment she walked in) but I just couldn't bring myself to say it. I was too embarrassed and too ashamed.


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## poida

dragonfly92 said:


> I was engaged for 4 months until last week. I've been eating nothing but junk food.
> 
> My fiance's female cousin showed him her diary and an old recorder I had no idea she had, of us calling her a loser, the W word and a bunch of other things in HS (we did other stuff too). Though there was no footage, my voice was heard the most. I was the main ringleader back then. I'm now 25.
> 
> Prior to that, I knew who she was when my fiance mentioned that she was going to stop by for a couple weeks. She doesn't have fb. I really thought I could just start all over with her so I pretended not to remember her (even invited her to a girl's hang out with my friends but she declined it; I also gave her a chocolate box when meeting her again but found out she gave it to someone else). She wouldn't let it go and kept mentioning a couple times about if I remembered her when we were alone in private or sarcastically saying at the dining table in front of everyone ''It's so interesting that we never met before''.
> 
> I admitted that I lost my cool after too much of that and in private when she tried again to make a sarcastic comment, I said ''Leave me alone already. Go away. What proof you got anyways Dorka''. I reverted back to calling her by her old HS nickname Dorka since her name is Dorothy. I was pissed off at that moment.
> 
> I wanted to take it all back but it was too late. She showed it the following day. My fiance says he needs time to think about all this.
> 
> Update as of today:
> I received a message from her on my fb (apparently she just created a fb act) that she just wants to talk and if I can meet her. I set it up for Saturday. Not sure if there is any point at this moment. My fiance just broke off the engagement an hour ago. Help.
> 
> Any suggestions would be helpful.


Carrying on like a 12 year old. You are too young and immature to get married anyway.


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## dragonfly92

Rubix Cubed, 
I'm not getting married anymore. I deserved it all. Everything that just happened. I'm not upset with her anymore. I don't hate her. I really don't.


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## Vinnydee

My ex-finacé cheated on me when I was in combat on the other side of the world. She did not want to get back together and I was devastated especially since It would be 6 months before I could even go home. I felt like you but it turned out to be the best single thing that happened to me in my life. It is why I am the happy successful man married for 45 years to a woman who is devoted to my happiness.

My ex called me up 10 years ago when I happen to move into the same State she lived in and only 20 minutes away. She wanted to apologize to me and tell me her sad tale. She became a hippie and ardent anti capitalist (she now owns her own business). She joined a hippie commune and got hooked on drugs and pregnant from one of the guys she was passed around to each night. She left them trying to get straight and when she did she started to hear voices telling her to do things and told the future or anyone she was with or talked to over the phone. She legally changed her name as told to do. She finally got psychiatric help but still insists that she hears voices. She married a guy just to get him to pay for her son's college tuition and then left him to marry a woman.

If not for the breakup I would never have met my wife of 45 years. My life would have been miserable with a girl who did not believe in making money and had lots of mental issues as well as being a lesbian. Funny thing is that her parents said I was not good enough for her. They owned a business and had money while my parents were poor. However I have a very high IQ and that enabled me to get some very good paying jobs at a very young age. I bought my first all brick new home when I was 20 and my wife did not have to work if she did not want to. We never had to worry about money. We lived well below our means. Still do except for my man toys.  

One thing I have learned, among many, as an old man is that my life is the way it is because of not only the good things but also the bad that happened to me. Take solace in that what seems bad today may seem like a blessing later on. Both of the girls that cheated on me had very bad drug addicted lives. Both had children by unknown men. My life would have been so much different that what was once bad turned out to be the best things that could ever have happened to me and had very profound effects for the good on my life. So it shall be for you. One day you will be happy with your family and life and think that you are where you are because you broke up with your girlfriend. Even if she goes on to do well, it does not mean that the two of you would have been good for each other had you married. Just let it go as the past is best left in the past and look forward to the future as that is where the exciting stuff happens and you have some control over.


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## farsidejunky

Your humility after taking criticism here is a positive sign.

You should meet with her and apologize because it is the right thing to do.

After that, let it go, even if she doesn't. 

As to your fiance...if he has a good heart, he will appreciate you doing so as long as he believes you are doing it for your cousin instead of him. 

Focus on being a good person, and if it was meant to be, it will be.


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## dragonfly92

Thank you for sharing this Vinnydee and glad to hear you found your happiness. Right now I'm feeling so down that I've been crying all night long last night. 
Everything blew up in my face. Everything.


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## dragonfly92

farsidejunky said:


> Your humility after taking criticism here is a positive sign.
> 
> You should meet with her and apologize because it is the right thing to do.
> 
> After that, let it go, even if she doesn't.
> 
> As to your fiance...if he has a good heart, he will appreciate you doing so as long as he believes you are doing it for your cousin instead of him.
> 
> Focus on being a good person, and if it was meant to be, it will be.


I'm not doing it to get back with him at this point. I don't expect her to ever forgive me but it would mean a lot.


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## GusPolinski

farsidejunky said:


> You should have been honest from the get go.
> 
> Cold comfort...I know...but let it serve as a lesson in your life moving forward.
> 
> *Now...why did you revert to calling her dorka again? You were in that position TWICE from your own doing...once then, once now.*
> 
> You have some growing to do, OP.


Mean girls gonna meangirl.


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## dragonfly92

GusPolinski said:


> Mean girls gonna meangirl.


I didn't intend for things to turn out the way they did. It's that at that moment I got upset when she wouldn't let it go. At first, I really thought we could start all over.


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## BioFury

dragonfly92 said:


> Rubix Cubed,
> I'm not getting married anymore. I deserved it all. Everything that just happened. I'm not upset with her anymore. I don't hate her. I really don't.


Don't give up so easily. You made a mistake, so fix it. Grow and be a better version of yourself. Your man is still there, and he loves you. Resolve these conflicts and issues, apologize to them both, and ask to try again.


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## Satya

dragonfly92 said:


> My transgression back to my HS version when I called her Dorka was the result of feeling pestered/harrassed by her so much and her unwillingness to start all over as strangers meeting for the first time; to see how I've changed. I felt trapped and didn't know what to do so I reacted.
> Prior to that argument, I tried everything possible to make her feel comfortable. I've tried so hard to move away from my past. I didn't want to be reminded of the time I was such an awful person.


And why was she obligated, by your opinion, to just wipe the slate clean and pretend it never happened? She obviously didn't agree to that, even though it's what you expected. Although we do many immature and regrettable things when we're young, you showed that as an even older and more "mature" adult you can dish it but not take it. So you reverted back into that teenage girl. 

Some people don't forget and will exact revenge when opportunity strikes. I guess you met one such person (again).


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## Diana7

If your fiancé is a mature man, he will recognise that things happen at school that are not good and that we grow out of. He will also recognise that you are not perfect, and nor is he. Just say sorry to them both, not sure what more you can do. 
If he cant forgive you for your actions in high school all those years ago, then maybe he isn't ready for marriage anyway. Its also a bit weird that she has kept that stuff all this time. She seems to want you to break up.

There needs to be a lot of forgiveness in a marriage, if he cant do it now, then how will he do it later?


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## pragmaticGoddess

You should have apologized rather than pretend you didn’t know her. There’s a point in life when you want to atone and apologize for the bad things you’ve done when you’re younger. I guess you’re not there yet.


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## pragmaticGoddess

Diana7 said:


> If your fiancé is a mature man, he will recognise that things happen at school that are not good and that we grow out of. He will also recognise that you are not perfect, and nor is he. Just say sorry to them both, not sure what more you can do.
> If he cant forgive you for your actions in high school all those years ago, then maybe he isn't ready for marriage anyway. Its also a bit weird that she has kept that stuff all this time. She seems to want you to break up.
> 
> There needs to be a lot of forgiveness in a marriage, if he cant do it now, then how will he do it later?


That’s true in marriage there are many times your spouse will hurt you. You forgive and ask for forgiveness. The OP in this case hasn’t asked for forgiveness and probably thinks that she’s done nothing wrong. Maturity is present when you own up to your actions.


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## dragonfly92

Satya said:


> And why was she obligated, by your opinion, to just wipe the slate clean and pretend it never happened? She obviously didn't agree to that, even though it's what you expected. Although we do many immature and regrettable things when we're young, you showed that as an even older and more "mature" adult you can dish it but not take it. So you reverted back into that teenage girl.
> 
> Some people don't forget and will exact revenge when opportunity strikes. I guess you met one such person (again).


I underestimated her and really thought 7 years was enough time to get over it. I was wrong.


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## dragonfly92

pragmaticGoddess said:


> You should have apologized rather than pretend you didn’t know her. There’s a point in life when you want to atone and apologize for the bad things you’ve done when you’re younger. I guess you’re not there yet. Did your fiancé break off your engagement because of how you treated her in the past? It wasn’t clear.


She told him about the argument and what I just called her too. At this moment, my now ex fiance thinks I'm a liar and a bully. In his latest message he said it feels like he doesn't know who I am anymore and thinks I must be lying about other things if I pretended not to know his cousin.

I never meant to hurt him. I just didn't want him nor anyone in his family to know who I was back then.

He read practically all her diary and it contains everything we would do to her (I would lead the group). It was more than just name callings. That was her expressing about her miserable years in HS.


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## pragmaticGoddess

dragonfly92 said:


> pragmaticGoddess said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should have apologized rather than pretend you didn’t know her. There’s a point in life when you want to atone and apologize for the bad things you’ve done when you’re younger. I guess you’re not there yet. Did your fiancé break off your engagement because of how you treated her in the past? It wasn’t clear.
> 
> 
> 
> She told him about the argument and what I just called her too. At this moment, my now ex fiance thinks I'm a liar and a bully. In his latest message he said it feels like he doesn't know who I am anymore and thinks I must be lying about other things if I pretended not to know his cousin.
> 
> I never meant to hurt him. I just didn't want him nor anyone in his family to know who I was back then.
Click to expand...

I think you should let him have his space. There’s nothing you can really do to change his mind. I’m assuming you’ve told him what you have told us here. Let me know that you will respect him by giving him time, but you love him and you will be there when he’s ready to talk. 

I’ve gone through a broken engagement and it hurts. I hope you will both come to a resolution.


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## Roselyn

dragonfly92 said:


> She told him about the argument and what I just called her too. At this moment, my now ex fiance thinks I'm a liar and a bully. In his latest message he said it feels like he doesn't know who I am anymore and thinks I must be lying about other things if I pretended not to know his cousin.
> 
> I never meant to hurt him. I just didn't want him nor anyone in his family to know who I was back then.
> 
> He read practically all her diary and it contains everything we would do to her (I would lead the group). It was more than just name callings. That was her expressing about her miserable years in HS.


What awful things did you and your friends did to this poor girl that she is so scarred & kept a diary of your bullying? His family will know you by now. There is no going back. You were the leader of the bully pack. The biggest mistake that you made was to have her relive those high school years by calling her "Dorka"! Your old self is still within you and may awaken, anytime you get angry. You need to become a better person & sincerely apologize to this person in the presence of your ex-fiancee & your bully high school followers. I hope that you will become a better and kinder person. This is a lesson to be learned.


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## Diana7

dragonfly92 said:


> She told him about the argument and what I just called her too. At this moment, my now ex fiance thinks I'm a liar and a bully. In his latest message he said it feels like he doesn't know who I am anymore and thinks I must be lying about other things if I pretended not to know his cousin.
> 
> I never meant to hurt him. I just didn't want him nor anyone in his family to know who I was back then.
> 
> He read practically all her diary and it contains everything we would do to her (I would lead the group). It was more than just name callings. That was her expressing about her miserable years in HS.


What was more than just name callings? What did you do?


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## Satya

dragonfly92 said:


> At this moment, my now ex fiance thinks I'm a liar and a bully.


Which is the truth, and not just in the distant past but in the recent past thanks to your pretending to not know her (lie) and then losing your temper and calling her by the nasty name (bullying). 



dragonfly92 said:


> In his latest message he said it feels like he doesn't know who I am anymore and thinks I must be lying about other things if I pretended not to know his cousin..


I think your ex fiance has a lot of spine and is wise. Our past behavior is a very good indicator of our future behavior. The evidence she kept showed him who you were and the more recent events showed him you hadn't really changed since then. Bullies are inherently insecure and your insecurity took over when you chose to ignore your past rather than face it, own up to it, and apologize.

I'm not trying to be hard on you, I'm trying to encourage you to see how you are still blaming others for your own issues. Your ex fiance did nothing wrong by letting you go, IMO. You CAN learn from the experience and be a better person going forward, but your past will always be a part of you. I suggest you start embracing it rather than hiding or running from it, so you can improve your insecurities and show your next partner with clear actions and confidence that you're NOT that kind of person any longer.


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## Cooper

Roselyn said:


> What awful things did you and your friends did to this poor girl that she is so scarred & kept a diary of your bullying? His family will know you by now. There is no going back. You were the leader of the bully pack. The biggest mistake that you made was to have her relive those high school years by calling her "Dorka"! Your old self is still within you and may awaken, anytime you get angry. You need to become a better person & sincerely apologize to this person in the presence of your ex-fiancee & your bully high school followers. I hope that you will become a better and kinder person. This is a lesson to be learned.


I agree with the above.

Regardless of your engagement working or not you have the opportunity to apologize to this woman and you should.


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## msrv23

You can talk to her honestly even if it means being vulnerable. Tell her that you felt insecure and didn’t handle it maturely. Also try to empathise with how she felt for all these years. If you even did worse than name calling then you shouldn’t see it as something easily put aside.
If you show real remorse it might help solving this situation. If not at least you tried.


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## SunCMars

dragonfly92 said:


> Rubix Cubed,
> I'm not getting married anymore. I deserved it all. Everything that just happened. I'm not upset with her anymore. I don't hate her. I really don't.


These words, this thought propels you one more step toward redemption, closing in on perfection.


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## Blondilocks

Have you figured out why you tormented this poor girl? And, why this particular girl?


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## dragonfly92

Good morning all,
I'm a bit swollen from crying myself to go to sleep again. Several of the events at the time when my father was still alive were as following:
- It started in our freshman year by passing a rumor that she lost her virginity
- Literally have others removed from several pep-rallies while I was in the front (leading the group; a couple guys were involved in this too) opening the exit door
- Hide her gym clothes; that's the reason she would either show up late for Physical Fitness class or be there with her regular clothes
- A couple times leaving her for a while without her shoes and socks
- The slime incident where my friends (me leading them also) threw it at her during lunch 
- Have her believe that some guy wrote a love letter and likes her
- Telling her she doesn't belong to this school and ask why doesn't she leaves already, that everyone hates her, that she's a loser, etc.
- All of us singing ''We are the champion (getting louder in the ''No time for losers'' part) and other songs to her
- The school project incident; we were divided into 4 and none of us did anything; we gave her all our assignments and she stayed all night long doing them
- Sometimes invited her to our parties and either left her alone with no one to talk to or humiliated her with my friends (ex: once leaving her without a toilet paper roll; we took it out)

As to why I tormented her; I don't know. I had no reason. My parents were happy at the time, my father was still alive. I had everything at home. Nothing was ever lacking. There was no good reason.


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## Andy1001

dragonfly92 said:


> Good morning all,
> I'm a bit swollen from crying myself to go to sleep again. Several of the events at the time when my father was still alive were as following:
> - It started in our freshman year by passing a rumor that she lost her virginity
> - Literally have others removed from several pep-rallies while I was in the front (leading the group; a couple guys were involved in this too) opening the exit door
> - Hide her gym clothes; that's the reason she would either show up late for Physical Fitness class or be there with her regular clothes
> - A couple times leaving her for a while without her shoes and socks
> - The slime incident where my friends (me leading them also) threw it at her during lunch
> - Have her believe that some guy wrote a love letter and likes her
> - Telling her she doesn't belong to this school and ask why doesn't she leaves already, that everyone hates her, that she's a loser, etc.
> - All of us singing ''We are the champion (getting louder in the ''No time for losers'' part) and other songs to her
> - The school project incident; we were divided into 4 and none of us did anything; we gave her all our assignments and she stayed all night long doing them
> - Sometimes invited her to our parties and either left her alone with no one to talk to or humiliated her with my friends (ex: once leaving her without a toilet paper roll; we took it out)
> 
> As to why I tormented her; I don't know. I had no reason. My parents were happy at the time, my father was still alive. I had everything at home. Nothing was ever lacking. There was no good reason.


You are wrong about there been no reason.
The reason was you were an *******.
You still are.


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## toblerone

Well, look at it this way: at least you're finally facing some consequences for your actions.


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## Yag-Kosha

dragonfly92 said:


> I just didn't want him nor anyone in his family to know who I was back then.


You mean who you are now, right?

You had a chance to nip this right in the bud. As soon as you saw her you had the chance to run up to her and immediately apologize. Yet, you did not. You wanted to ignore all those horrible things you did in the *very recent* past.

And then when she confronted you, you reverted back to that bully mentality and just wanted her to get over it and called her that same demeaning name you used to taunt her so very recently.

Thank goodness your ex-fiance found out about these events. Another person saved from marrying a monster. 

As for suggestions for you, I don't want to get perma-banned so I have none to give.


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## David51

I knew kids like you were as a kid in High School. When you realized who she was you should have told you fiancée how awful you treated her in H.S. And now as an adult how ashamed you are of your past behavior. 

In my opinion your fella called off the engagement due to your dishonesty and not what you did as a kid. 

As hard as this is right now for you, the best lessons in life are usually the most hurtful. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ghost Rider

Honestly, if I met my middle school bully, I would not be able to treat him like a stranger and like nothing ever happened. And it's been a good thirty years. That was not a reasonable expectation.


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## sdrawkcab

Dragonfly-

You imply that you are no longer that mean girl you were, but when given the opportunity to make amends (apologize and counter with kindness and empathy) to Dorothy...you were more concerned about self-preservation...

Even in this thread you are rationalizing in all directions... your fiance's decision to call it off and think about things means he's probably trying to discern if this incident is merely poor actions from someone's past or is this a character flaw that still lingers...

...what kind of person do you want to be? 

Instead of expecting Dorothy to have gotten over it...perhaps your time would be better spent putting yourself in her shoes and responding to her with humility (regardless of whether your engagement could be restored)...


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## Magnesium

Clearly, you haven't changed, or you would have apologized to her immediately. No you didn't intend for things to go the way they did... you intended to get what you wanted without giving even a humble apology to a person you tormented, abused and bullied for no reason whatsoever. 

Your ex is right, you're a bully. 

Ugly, ugly, ugly.


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## dragonfly92

I know I had the opportunity to make things right but I kept trying to run away from my past. At that moment in my mind, I was thinking that by being nice she would get to know my new present self and treat me like such. It didn't work. 

I never revealed to my other past former ex's what I was like in HS. I wouldn't even talk too much about HS. All the time I was hoping to never ran into someone from back then. I would like to admit that when it comes to showing total vulnerability, I feel trapped at that moment and this is where I freak out.

I'm reading another message. It's her reconforming it for Saturday. That message said she isn't there to get back at me anymore, that she just wants to talk. The tone of the message sounds more softer than the previous one.


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## Satya

I'm guessing that you did what you did then because (1) you could get away with it, (2) you'd probably get some additional popularity for it, and (3) you enjoyed humiliating her and bringing her down, because why not... 

I was treated just like you treated her in several of my schools. That thing with the fake love note was precisely what some mean girls did to me. I was an awkward and nerdy, probably considered a rather ugly girl by their standards and it wasn't until I went to a place that had ZERO tolerance for bullying that it stopped, because the faculty would humiliate the bully every bit as much as they'd try to do to the student, AND get parents involved AND enforce mandatory community service as detention. By the end, the bully had no teeth and no bandwagon any longer because to be a fan of a bully would give you a very negative reputation in the school. 

I lost touch with all of my past bullies, but I hear things through the grapevine from time to time that remind me the karma bus isn't very kind. 

If you ever have children, I hope you'll raise them to understand why bullying has no place or justification in our world. You never know when your victim might come back to roundhouse kick you.


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## dragonfly92

Magnesium said:


> Clearly, you haven't changed, or you would have apologized to her immediately. No you didn't intend for things to go the way they did... you intended to get what you wanted without giving even a humble apology to a person you tormented, abused and bullied for no reason whatsoever.
> 
> Your ex is right, you're a bully.
> 
> Ugly, ugly, ugly.


I guess I'm a terrible person, an awful human.:frown2:


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## Magnesium

dragonfly92 said:


> I guess I'm a terrible person, an awful human.:frown2:


Well, you can completely humble yourself, repent and change your ways. Consequences for our poor choices can sometimes last a lifetime, but that shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing.

You can't just ignore your past if you want to keep from repeating it. You have to acknowledge it, make amends for it, and make a conscious decision to never do it again.

This woman has shown you GRACE by offering to speak with you after all you did to her in High School and what you have done to her most recently. Take this opportunity to show humility and seek forgiveness, offer amends and repentance for it and then take your consequences like a mature person.

Redemption is possible.


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## Bananapeel

dragonfly92 said:


> I know I had the opportunity to make things right but I kept trying to run away from my past. At that moment in my mind, I was thinking that by being nice she would get to know my new present self and treat me like such. It didn't work.
> 
> This statement is all about YOU. If you really changed and had empathy you'd care about HER.
> 
> I never revealed to my other past former ex's what I was like in HS. I wouldn't even talk too much about HS. All the time I was hoping to never ran into someone from back then. I would like to admit that when it comes to showing total vulnerability, I feel trapped at that moment and this is where I freak out.
> 
> Here's the advice I give to my kids. If what did was a big deal or it was truly hurtful to someone, then you need to be direct and apologize. If it isn't a big deal and isn't hurtful, then don't worry about apologizing. Clearly, you are ashamed of your actions because they were a big deal and they were hurtful, but instead of being mature and properly addressing the situation you ran the other way. If you are the type of person that has a hard time apologizing there is an alternative method of dealing with the issue. Next time you are in the situation just walk up to the person, shake their hand, and say it's nice to see them again after all these years and do it with a warm smile. Basically, try to make a good impression and that will go a long way in showing you've matured and now respect the other person. Then if the other person then wants to talk, all you need to do is listen quietly while they vent.
> 
> I'm reading another message. It's her reconforming it for Saturday. That message said she isn't there to get back at me anymore, that she just wants to talk. The tone of the message sounds more softer than the previous one.
> 
> You're actually fairly lucky because it sounds like she has empathy and maturity. As I said above, just listen to her and let her express her feelings.


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## wilson

I know this is tough for you. It sounds like you are turning around and aren't that same person. I'm sure we all did things in HS we are ashamed about. Your list is worst than most, but at least you seem to be honest with yourself.

I hope you are really thinking about how she must have felt about all that. She won't get over it in 7 years. That kind of bulling leaves scars that affect her self confidence in very deep ways. She will never get over it. Every time she has a setback in her life, she will flash back to how people treated her in HS. In her heart, she probably thinks of herself as a loser and always will. I hope you come to understand how deeply negatively your behavior affected her. Essentially, you took away any joy she could have had during that time. She probably wished she was dead to get away from it all.

But I think you can try to make things right in your next meeting. You'll need to convey that you understand what she's feeling, why she's feeling it, and that you accept all responsibility. Don't expect anything from her in accepting your apology. There's not a way to say "I'm sorry" that makes up for all she went through. The biggest favor you could do for her is let her get all her anger out and accept it willingly and contritely. If she understands that you feel her pain, understand what she went through, and accept your responsibility for it, it will help her in her healing process.


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## farsidejunky

Something I want to point out here, folks.

The line between helping someone by pointing out the truth, versus becoming a bully yourself, is very narrow.

Many of the posts here clearly have crossed that line. In fairness, my initial post in this thread probably crosses that line...or at least comes very close.

Let's not get so busy trying to right the wrongs from our own pasts that we switch from the victim to the perpetrator in the drama triangle.

Mercy is allowed...and even encouraged.


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## SadSamIAm

I don't know if it is possible for you to pull this off. You still sound like you are only concerned about yourself and don't really understand how your bullying has affected others. In order to properly make amends for what you have done, you need to be sincere. If you just say things because you have to, it will make you look worse and not better.

What you need to do is set up a meeting with your fiance and his cousin and with other people in his family that are important to him. In the meeting you need to admit what you have done. You need to express how deeply sorry you are. You need to show everyone that you have changed and that you feel terrible for what you did to others. If it is ever going to work with him, you need to do this, because these people are part of him and they need to hear it from you.

While you are at it, you should contact others from your past that you treated the same way. Start making amends for you actions in the past. Don't just live hoping it doesn't come back to hurt you. That is selfish. If you did these types of things to others, then you need to realize how your actions have affected their lives. If you truly have changed, then you should be feeling guilty about what you have done and you will want to make it right (as best as you can). 

The reason I don't believe you can pull this off is because you shouldn't have had to be told to do this. If you had changed, you would have done it. The moment you realized his cousin was this person you hurt so badly, you would have told your fiance and you would have been apologizing. Your actions now (hiding from the past and thinking she should have gotten over it) show that you have not changed. Maybe losing your fiance will make you realize you need to change and realize how much you have hurt others.


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## FieryHairedLady

Your fiance dumped you because you called his female cousin a loser in high school?

WOW


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## FieryHairedLady

I read a little further. You are a bully. 

Guess it came back to bite ya.

Learn from this, mature, grow up. 

Make better choices in the future.


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## Diana7

dragonfly92 said:


> I guess I'm a terrible person, an awful human.:frown2:


No, you are not, you are a person who did a very wrong thing, who now regrets it and recognises it. I am sure that many here did stupid things in their younger days. 
I hope that your man sees that and gives you another chance. To end an engagement for what you did ta school seems over the top to me. He clearly doesn't want to accept you as you are with all your past mistakes and that's sad.


----------



## Diana7

farsidejunky said:


> Something I want to point out here, folks.
> 
> The line between helping someone by pointing out the truth, versus becoming a bully yourself, is very narrow.
> 
> Many of the posts here clearly have crossed that line. In fairness, my initial post in this thread probably crosses that line...or at least comes very close.
> 
> Let's not get so busy trying to right the wrongs from our own pasts that we switch from the victim to the perpetrator in the drama triangle.
> 
> Mercy is allowed...and even encouraged.


Absolutely. I am sure that we all have things that we regret doing in our past, cut some slack here. 
The good thing is that the OP recognises that she has done wrong, and is now repentant. She may have lost her fiancé, that's a horrible thing.
I wonder if the cousin is satisfied that she has now destroyed an engagement. Acting in vengeance isn't the way to go.


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## Anastasia6

OP. I wanted to hopefully add perspective. You said you hoped by now she would have let it go.

But you had a new transgression. When meeting her you acted like you didn't know her. Indicating to her that she is so far beneath you that you could have put so much time and energy into tormenting her not too long ago but don't even remember her now. That is really just another put down. 

I'm not trying to bash you but give you her POV. To be so low that I don't remember you? That was probably a trigger for her.


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## Roselyn

OP, apologize to everyone that you have injured publicly. You can meet them in person with others and other vehicles such as social media. Apparently, you are a charismatic & leader type individual that others follow you, even at bullying behaviors. Use your gift to do some good. 

Don't chase after your ex-fiance. If you love him, leave the door open for him to come back to you. It is up to him to decide. If you wish to start anew and not wish to be referred back to your high school years, you might decide to move to another state where your slate is clean. In the meantime, for your own peace of mind, make amends to those you have injured in the past.

I believe that you can change to a better and loving person. My best to you.


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## Rubix Cubed

@dragonfly92,

Your posts all center around you and what you lose or gain. I'd suggest you honestly try to put yourself in her shoes and feel what she must have felt and obviously still feels. When you meet with her apologize and mean it.Show some empathy. I would also advise you to watch your back when you meet with her, because the quick shift in tone is suspicious, and I expect she has a LOT of pent up aggression toward you.
Do your best to make things right and for God's sake control your emotions if things don't go your way.


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## Diana7

Rubix Cubed said:


> @dragonfly92,
> 
> Your posts all center around you and what you lose or gain. I'd suggest you honestly try to put yourself in her shoes and feel what she must have felt and obviously still feels. When you meet with her apologize and mean it.Show some empathy. I would also advise you to watch your back when you meet with her, because the quick shift in tone is suspicious, and I expect she has a LOT of pent up aggression toward you.
> Do your best to make things right and for God's sake control your emotions if things don't go your way.


Also she may well be recording the conversation again.


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## Evinrude58

Your fiance didn't break up with you because you called his cousin a dork in high school. He likely had some other reason as well.
If he did, he is an exceptional person, indeed. Or, what his cousin recorded was REALLY bad... 

What else is going on that would have caused him to break the engagement? Really, if he dumped you that easily, I don't think it was likely that it would have worked out, anyway.
Just my .02


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## wilson

Evinrude58 said:


> Your fiance didn't break up with you because you called his cousin a dork in high school. He likely had some other reason as well.
> If he did, he is an exceptional person, indeed. Or, what his cousin recorded was REALLY bad...


Did you read the whole thread? Yeah, it was that bad, probably worse. It's the kind of stuff that might lead to the cousin considering suicide. 

I don't see how the marriage could happen now. I'm sure the extended family is hearing all the stories. I'm sure the cousin's parents are upset knowing all that happened and that their nephew was considering marrying the person who made their daughter's life so hard in HS. Even if the fiance could forgive, I don't see how the rest of the family will be accepting.


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## Steve1000

dragonfly92 said:


> Good morning all,
> I'm a bit swollen from crying myself to go to sleep again. Several of the events at the time when my father was still alive were as following:
> - It started in our freshman year by passing a rumor that she lost her virginity
> - Literally have others removed from several pep-rallies while I was in the front (leading the group; a couple guys were involved in this too) opening the exit door
> - Hide her gym clothes; that's the reason she would either show up late for Physical Fitness class or be there with her regular clothes
> - A couple times leaving her for a while without her shoes and socks
> - The slime incident where my friends (me leading them also) threw it at her during lunch
> - Have her believe that some guy wrote a love letter and likes her
> - Telling her she doesn't belong to this school and ask why doesn't she leaves already, that everyone hates her, that she's a loser, etc.
> - All of us singing ''We are the champion (getting louder in the ''No time for losers'' part) and other songs to her
> - The school project incident; we were divided into 4 and none of us did anything; we gave her all our assignments and she stayed all night long doing them
> - Sometimes invited her to our parties and either left her alone with no one to talk to or humiliated her with my friends (ex: once leaving her without a toilet paper roll; we took it out)
> 
> As to why I tormented her; I don't know. I had no reason. My parents were happy at the time, my father was still alive. I had everything at home. Nothing was ever lacking. There was no good reason.


I'm surprised that you took the time to point out some of the very bad things you did to her. Most people would not have taken the time. I have hope that you can be a very caring and considerate person who stands up for people who could use a friend. Hang in there.


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## BioFury

dragonfly92 said:


> I guess I'm a terrible person, an awful human.:frown2:


Even if that's true, there no reason you have to continue being that person. Tomorrow is another day. You can choose to be different, to make better decisions.

Repent, come clean, and ask for a second chance.


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## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> I didn't intend for things to turn out the way they did. It's that at that moment I got upset when she wouldn't let it go. At first, I really thought we could start all over.


The things we say when we are upset is what is really in our heart. You called her Dorka because deep down inside of you there is still that nasty teenager who gets power out of putting people down. Clearly you don't like her as a person and are willing to pull high school games even at 25.

You wanted her to 'start over' do things your way.... you know to pretend that you were not a mean girl in high school and to pretend that you did not hurt her back then. But you don't get to decide how she handles thing. You did not tell her your intent. Most likely you pretending that you did not know her only looked like one more of your high school games... indicating that you were telling her that she was so insignificant that you did not ever remember her even though you really hurt her in high school. While that might not have been your intent, I can understand her taking it that way.

She clearly still carries pain for the way she was mistreated in high school by per peers. Most people would.

I can understand why your fiancé broke up with you. What you did to his cousin in the last few months makes you look very immature. No one needs like that of meangirl stuff going on between family members... and if you two married, that's what it would be.

Do you really feel bad for the way you treated her in high school? Or do you just feel bad that you lost your fiancé? 

This is an important lesson. Don't perpetuate lies to try to cover up wrongs that you do. Just be honest, upfront and apologize. People respect that.


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## Bonkers

You sound very manipulative and selfish. 

It's all about obtaining your goals regardless of collateral damage to others. 

Your fiancee figured that out just in time. 

Learn from it, be a better person. Volunteer in soup kitchens. 

Redeem yourself.


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## EleGirl

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Your fiance dumped you because you called his female cousin a loser in high school?
> 
> WOW


My take on it is that he dumped her because she started went on a name calling barrage against the cousin, using high school taught, in the last week or two.


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## Malaise

Satya said:


> I'm guessing that you did what you did then because (1) you could get away with it, (2) you'd probably get some additional popularity for it, and (3) you enjoyed humiliating her and bringing her down, because why not...


All of this plus bullies feel untouchable themselves, being part of the mob.


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## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> She told him about the argument and what I just called her too. At this moment, my now ex fiance thinks I'm a liar and a bully. In his latest message he said it feels like he doesn't know who I am anymore and thinks I must be lying about other things if I pretended not to know his cousin.
> 
> I never meant to hurt him. I just didn't want him nor anyone in his family to know who I was back then.
> 
> He read practically all her diary and it contains everything we would do to her (I would lead the group). It was more than just name callings. That was her expressing about her miserable years in HS.


What did you do besides name calling?


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## Mr. Nail

dragonfly92 said:


> I underestimated her and really thought 7 years was enough time to get over it. I was wrong.





dragonfly92 said:


> She told him about the argument and what I just called her too. At this moment, my now ex fiance thinks I'm a liar and a bully. In his latest message he said it feels like he doesn't know who I am anymore and thinks I must be lying about other things if I pretended not to know his cousin.
> 
> I never meant to hurt him. I just didn't want him nor anyone in his family to know who I was back then.
> 
> He read practically all her diary and it contains everything we would do to her (I would lead the group). It was more than just name callings. That was her expressing about her miserable years in HS.





dragonfly92 said:


> I'm reading another message. It's her reconforming it for Saturday. That message said she isn't there to get back at me anymore, that she just wants to talk. The tone of the message sounds more softer than the previous one.


Dear Dragonfly92, You live in a different world than I ever have. It is very difficult for me to understand your point of view. I was always on the other side of the bullying situation. In the same way, I don't think you can ever really understand my world, or Dorothy's world. You have been getting a very nasty taste of it over the past few days. I feel for your suffering, but all I can offer you, and by extension every Bully that I ever had to suffer through, is some advice. 

Like many others when you said that you thought 7 years would be enough time to get over it, I realized that you had no idea of what is in her mind and heart. Like many of the unbeautiful people my bullying is a multi generational thing. It's an experience I share with my grand parents, parents and children. It is as much a part of our life as race or ethnicity or religion. My Daughter is close to your age, having graduated just over 7 years ago. I think it might help you understand if you knew what she has been doing for the last 7 years. 

The first year after graduation she moved 7 hours away from home. much of the motivation for this was the panic attacks she had when meeting classmates and seeing the school. We as parent's didn't understand, that at the time. She funded her own education. This required a year of working before starting university. Her boss bullied her. When she couldn't get enough hours to live on, she took a second job. Her boss felt that that was a disloyalty and stepped up the bullying, but did not offer any more hours. In her first year at University she met new people who were her age, unsurprisingly they were much like the people she went to high school with. Like you she just wanted a fresh start, but in 2 semesters she was missing so many classes to avoid panic attacs or bullying that she was ruled "at risk" and because it was a better than average university, she was offered Psychological counseling. She still failed enough classes that she had to take a year off on academic probation. The positive bit was that she was diagnosed With PTSD. And, she started to learn how to work with that reality in her life.

Skipping ahead a few years One day a co worker told her that they were Best friends. This was quite a surprise to her because up until that revelation she hadn't realized that she had never had a friend. She had never been able to trust any other person enough to call them friend. She became an advocate and mentor to students who were at risk. She worked that job until she left university this spring 3 credits short of graduation. She is finishing with distance learning. 

What I want you to realize is that your Saturday meeting is with a person from a different world. She has not had the experiences that you have. It is very likely that she is suffering from PTSD and panic attacks. She is probably not diagnosed. She may run from the meeting, or just not show up. It is quite likely that she has had very few real friends. She has never been on a date. She will not trust you. You can help that by not minimizing her experience, even though you can't understand it. It would probably help you to read up on PTSD before Saturday.

Based only on my experience your former fiance may also have a history of being bullied. If that is the case there may never be any recovery. 

I'd like to finish by thanking you for posting this. if nothing else it has given me an opportunity to put my feelings on this into words. Even after 30+ years I'm still healing. 

MN


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## bandit.45

I think your fiancée is right to have second thoughts about marrying you. The main reason more and more young men are taking a pass on marriage these days is because of the surge in fake, game playing, manipulative, bullying women like yourself. 

There are two kinds of people in this world: wolves and sheep. You are a wolf. Find a wolf to marry.


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## zookeeper

Whether he take you back or not, I would advise against marrying him. You could be a completely different person today or the same awful person you once were. It doesn't really matter. You are forever contaminated with his family and it will poison the dynamic for many years to come. No one can forget such treatment. Her loved ones are highly unlikely to ever forgive the pain you caused her. They all know what you did.

It may be painful, but of you are truly a better person today you would be best served in a situation where you have a clean slate. That will never happen here now.


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## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> I guess I'm a terrible person, an awful human.:frown2:


No, you are like all of us... you made some mistakes. You now have the opportunity it learn from them and be a much better person from here on out.

It might be a good idea for you to get some counseling to figure out what in you lead you to be such a bully in high school. Perhaps you were so insecure that the only way you could figure out to fit in was to bully someone else. It seems to have worked since you were a leader that others followed in this bullying. Not unusual for a bully.

Another thing that could help you grow is to do some writing about those years. Write down each incident that you can remember.... what you were thinking, how it felt, who you were bullying (if she was not the only one), who joined you in that bullying. 

Be sure to write from Dorothy's perspective and learn to feel what she felt as you and your friends bullied, abused and mistreated her. You need to feel her pain and realize that you caused it. Until you can feel her pain, you cannot truly be sorry for what you did. Until you feel the pain, you cannot adequately apologize because you don't know what you are apologizing for.

Then write as the adult you now are... write to the teen girl you were and as an adult, tell her that she's really messing up, get her to empathize with the person she is picking on.

It's a form of journaling/story-writing that really helps a person mature. Believe it or not, while you bullied/injured his cousin in high school, you also injured yourself emotionally. What do you think acting like that did to you? You might want to answer that question while journaling as well.

Then journal about what you need to say to his cousin... with all the humility you can muster. 

You have healing to do from what that high school girl who was you did.


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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> No, you are not, you are a person who did a very wrong thing, who now regrets it and recognises it. I am sure that many here did stupid things in their younger days.
> I hope that your man sees that and gives you another chance. To end an engagement for what you did ta school seems over the top to me. He clearly doesn't want to accept you as you are with all your past mistakes and that's sad.


He did not end it for what she did in high school. He ended it for what she did recently... she lied and pretended for some time to not have met his cousin before. Then when the cousin confronted her about it, she stated bullying the cousin all over again.. a few days ago.


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## dragonfly92

Hi guys,
I was at my workplace and working on my thesis statement for my Master's. I'll postpone it for the meantime. This might seem ironic but I actually studied child psychology. 

I'll be replying to more of your posts. I'm just beginning to read a couple of the replies. 

I'm not trying to win him back at this moment. My ex fiance and I just spoke for a bit. It turns out she also recorded (including when I called her the horrible nickname) the argument we had. He was very disappointed that I wasn't honest with him about my past from the beginning, feels I don't trust him and that I'm still a bully based on the recent conversation and doesn't know what to think anymore. Shortly afterward he send me another message and this is what it's saying:

I don't care what you did in HS nor how many bfs you been with nor anything. You lied to me, you lied my family and you weren't going to own up to your mistake like a damn adult. I could have spoken to my cousin if you had told me. I could have fix this. Who was I suppose to get married to? Is that the woman that loves kids and help others? Is that the woman that saved a kid last year from getting run over by a drunk driver and risked her life? Is that the woman that always preaching about the importance of honesty and integrity in a relationship but yet is a hypocrite? Or was I suppose to get married to a bully, to a liar, to an illusion, to someone I never knew? I'm done here.


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## dragonfly92

Diana7 said:


> I wonder if the cousin is satisfied that she has now destroyed an engagement. Acting in vengeance isn't the way to go.


If so I still deserved it. If I had been honest with him from the start (the opposite of running away from problems), he would have still been with me.


----------



## dragonfly92

Steve1000 said:


> I'm surprised that you took the time to point out some of the very bad things you did to her. Most people would not have taken the time. I have hope that you can be a very caring and considerate person who stands up for people who could use a friend. Hang in there.


Those were several of the main things. I forgot to add something more degrading we did a couple times: carrying her and placing her in a garbage bin, treating it as a joke and two of us sitting on top for a couple minutes while she was yelling at us to let her out. We then flipped it to the right side and ran laughing. 
Ok I'm crying again as I'm writting this. I'll reply to some other posts. I'll brb.


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## MattMatt

dragonfly92 said:


> She told him about the argument and what I just called her too. At this moment, my now ex fiance thinks I'm a liar and a bully. In his latest message he said it feels like he doesn't know who I am anymore and thinks I must be lying about other things if I pretended not to know his cousin.
> 
> I never meant to hurt him. I just didn't want him nor anyone in his family to know who I was back then.
> 
> He read practically all her diary and it contains everything we would do to her (I would lead the group). It was more than just name callings. That was her expressing about her miserable years in HS.



So, it transpired that you bullied a blood relative of his? And lied about it?

For some, that oversteps a line. Perhaps he is one such person?


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Diana7 said:


> I wonder if the cousin is satisfied that she has now destroyed an engagement. Acting in vengeance isn't the way to go.


As far as the bullied victim is concerned, she has saved her cousin from the terrible mistake of marrying a cruel and deceitful woman. Not vengeance at all.


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## dragonfly92

MattMatt said:


> So, it transpired that you bullied a blood relative of his? And lied about it?
> 
> For some, that oversteps a line. Perhaps he is one such person?


He's mostly hurt that I wasn't honest about my past from the beginning and then not owning up to my mistake. He was honest about his when revealing he slept around and used to be a heavy drinker in his teen years.


----------



## Bonkers

dragonfly92 said:


> He's mostly hurt that I wasn't honest about my past from the beginning and then not owning up to my mistake. He was honest about his when revealing he slept around and used to be a heavy drinker in his teen years.


You think he's mostly "hurt" but I'm thinking he's thinking he dodged a bullet.


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## Rubix Cubed

dragonfly92 said:


> Those were several of the main things. I forgot to add something more degrading we did a couple times: carrying her and placing her in a garbage bin, treating it as a joke and two of us sitting on top for a couple minutes while she was yelling at us to let her out. We then flipped it to the right side and ran laughing.
> Ok I'm crying again as I'm writting this. I'll reply to some other posts. I'll brb.



You better be glad her name was Dorothy instead of "Carrie".


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## dragonfly92

EleGirl said:


> The things we say when we are upset is what is really in our heart. You called her Dorka because deep down inside of you there is still that nasty teenager who gets power out of putting people down. Clearly you don't like her as a person and are willing to pull high school games even at 25.


I wanted to take it back afterwards; after I've calmed down. I came earlier the following day to admit it and make it up to her but it was too late by then. She already told him everything and also had our conversation recorded. Then my ex fiance confronted with all that. I love his family. They were all like a 2nd family to me. 



EleGirl said:


> You wanted her to 'start over' do things your way.... you know to pretend that you were not a mean girl in high school and to pretend that you did not hurt her back then. But you don't get to decide how she handles thing. You did not tell her your intent. Most likely you pretending that you did not know her only looked like one more of your high school games... indicating that you were telling her that she was so insignificant that you did not ever remember her even though you really hurt her in high school. While that might not have been your intent, I can understand her taking it that way.
> 
> She clearly still carries pain for the way she was mistreated in high school by per peers. Most people would.
> 
> I can understand why your fiancé broke up with you. What you did to his cousin in the last few months makes you look very immature. No one needs like that of meangirl stuff going on between family members... and if you two married, that's what it would be.


I understand and no, it wasn't my intent to hurt her further or play her any games. I was treating her like a family member I'm meeting for the first time, shake hands with and tried being a friend. That's the reason I tried inviting her to a girl's hang out and gave her a big chocolate box. That was my way of saying she's an important member in the family too and I mean her no harm. 



EleGirl said:


> Do you really feel bad for the way you treated her in high school?


Yes, I really mean it



EleGirl said:


> Or do you just feel bad that you lost your fiancé?


I'm not going to try getting back with him. That would be his choice. 



EleGirl said:


> This is an important lesson. Don't perpetuate lies to try to cover up wrongs that you do. Just be honest, upfront and apologize. People respect that.


True. I ran away from my past like a coward. Not only did I disappoint my ex fiance, his family but also my deceased father. I couldn't even do the right thing, not even in his honor.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

DF92, you have learned a hard lesson in this. You and your HS clique were extremely cruel to her. As others have pointed out what you did to her she will carry the rest of her life. When you meet her I assume that you will acknowledge that in a heartfelt apology. 

You have the rest of your life to show by actions that you learned your lesson. As for your ex-fiance you owe him an apology too. Not sure if you already have. You lied to him and showed a side of yourself that was not nice. No one likes being lied to and manipulated. 

Give your ex-fiance lots of space and in a bit of time perhaps send him a letter in what you learned in all this and how truly sorry you are. If the letter reeks of you are sorry you got found out as a liar and cruel tormentor he will realize that and ignore you. But if the letter is honest and adult like in accepting responsibility for what you did maybe he will find it in his heart to forgive you and perhaps reset your relationship. Maybe not though , you will just have to live that and move on.


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## Diana7

EleGirl said:


> He did not end it for what she did in high school. He ended it for what she did recently... she lied and pretended for some time to not have met his cousin before. Then when the cousin confronted her about it, she stated bullying the cousin all over again.. a few days ago.


We actually have no idea what reason he had for ending it, whether it was the old bullying, the new stuff, or both.


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## Diana7

Hopeful Cynic said:


> As far as the bullied victim is concerned, she has saved her cousin from the terrible mistake of marrying a cruel and deceitful woman. Not vengeance at all.


Breaking up an engagement isn't something I would ever want to be responsible for. I feel that we should try and leave the past in the past and move on. Forgiveness is very powerful and can set us free from past hurts. Wanting to get back at the one who hurt us isn't the way to deal with it. It may bring a temporary pleasure, but it wont do us any good emotionally or mentally long term. 
In case you are wondering, I have had deep hurts from the past caused by people in my life, but have no desire to hurt them or harm them now.


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## sokillme

An adult would have already gone to Dorothy's house or wherever she is with their tail between their legs and apologize sincerely. For example post a long note on Facebook about what you did and how sorry and embarrassed you are about it. All you have done is post on this board. You should do it for everyone to see, you should make it your theses and your emphasis in your career. Those are just a few of the ways you could try to make amends. But most of all apologize because it's the just right thing to do. Don't say anything to your Fiance. Just man up and grow the **** up and fix it. Seriously it's not that hard. The fact that you haven't done that yet because you are "too upset with yourself" is frankly bull. Get over yourself and apologize maybe more then once, but enough so the whole family knows it's sincere and contrite. And just maybe your fiance will be willing to take a chance on you. Then you can also give a genuine apology to him. But wait a few years to get married because you are just not mature enough yet. 

If you fix the relationship with "Dorka" maybe your fiance will forgive you. If you sit home sulking in your pride nothing is going to change. You're 25 years old! Adults own up to their mistakes, other adults understand people do ****ty stuff when they are in their teens, and some adults don't get over stuff, that's OK as long as you are contrite and admit that you made the mistake. That right there is where you blew it and where you continue to blow it. In my mind it's probably because you are too full of pride. It's also why you tried to hide it. And why you won't apologize and come clean now. This is why I said you were still acting like you were in high school, kids fight consequences, adults face them.


----------



## sokillme

dragonfly92 said:


> I underestimated her and really thought 7 years was enough time to get over it. I was wrong.


He underestimated you. He assumed you were mature enough to know whether she wanted to start over with you or not was not the point, the point is when you do wrong to someone you own up to it and apologize, you admit what you did was mean and cruel and you humble yourself. This is on you not her it's not even really all that much about her, it's about you doing the right thing, she may never forgive you, but he still might if you show him you get it and do the right thing. Again maturity is what is missing here. 

You underestimate yourself because you still haven't done anything to fix this.



pragmaticGoddess said:


> That’s true in marriage there are many times your spouse will hurt you. You forgive and ask for forgiveness. The OP in this case hasn’t asked for forgiveness and probably thinks that she’s done nothing wrong. Maturity is present when you own up to your actions.


Amen.


----------



## sokillme

Diana7 said:


> We actually have no idea what reason he had for ending it, whether it was the old bullying, the new stuff, or both.





> I don't care what you did in HS nor how many bfs you been with nor anything. You lied to me, you lied my family and you weren't going to own up to your mistake like a damn adult. I could have spoken to my cousin if you had told me. I could have fix this. Who was I suppose to get married to? Is that the woman that loves kids and help others? Is that the woman that saved a kid last year from getting run over by a drunk driver and risked her life? Is that the woman that always preaching about the importance of honesty and integrity in a relationship but yet is a hypocrite? Or was I suppose to get married to a bully, to a liar, to an illusion, to someone I never knew? I'm done here.



I think we can believe his text, this dude is an adult, op isn't yet. I would have written the same thing. Every chance she has had to do the right thing with a little bit of courage she didn't. I guess the saying that bullies are cowards is true. 

It's a little scary she could be training for a masters in child psychology and not get the damage she did. Nor is she even yet trying to fix things and make things right, she isn't even fighting for him. Maybe it's her pride. Whatever it is something is still off with OP.


----------



## Malaise

dragonfly92 said:


> I underestimated her and really thought 7 years was enough time to get over it. I was wrong.


No, what you did was totally dismiss her feelings. You didn't think what you did was so bad if you thought she'd get over it.

You had no empathy back then and very little now.

What you underestimated was her pain.


----------



## sokillme

Malaise said:


> No, what you did was totally dismiss her feelings. You didn't think what you did was so bad if you thought she'd get over it.
> 
> You had no empathy back then and very little now.
> 
> What you underestimated was her pain.


Maybe she doesn't get it, maybe she isn't capable of getting it (empathy). People who do this kind of stuff often aren't, it's how they can do it over and over repeatedly. They just get older and learn they can't show that side of themselves as openly. This is how extreme narcissists seem to operate. I don't know OP enough to know, maybe OP doesn't even know.


----------



## sokillme

OP what do you imagine Dorothy was feeling then? 

What do you think she is feeling now?

What do you think your ex is feeling?


----------



## Satya

Your ex fiance had a zero tolerance rule. You hit too close to home on this issue, so he's had the final word and it's pretty strong, honest, and absolute. 

Just remain respectful of his wishes and learn from the event. It's too bad but you have plenty of years ahead. You will be OK.


----------



## Satya

sokillme said:


> I think we can believe his text, this dude is an adult, op isn't yet. I would have written the same thing. Every chance she has had to do the right thing with a little bit of courage she didn't. I guess the saying that bullies are cowards is true.
> 
> It's a little scary she could be training for a masters in child psychology and not get the damage she did. Nor is she even yet trying to fix things and make things right, she isn't even fighting for him. Maybe it's her pride. Whatever it is something is still off with OP.


I don't think she should fight for him, personally. I think she realizes that he's right and she is respectfully honoring his wishes by not fighting. That would only make her look desperate and clingy at this point.

You can't fight against truth. There's a lot of harsh truth to this story. We are all shades of gray. 

Now it's completely up to her how she learns from this and carries on living her life.


----------



## CktBridge

Sounds almost identical to the plot of the movie "You Again"

.imdb. /title/tt1414382/


----------



## dragonfly92

I'm not fighting to win him back because he doesn't want to hear anything I have to say at this moment. During our last conversation we had yesterday night, he would cut me off saying (even when I tried apologizing) ''stop talking will you''. 
I tried calling him once just 30 mins ago and he didn't pick up. He then texted ''Don't call me, I want to be left alone now.''. 

I saw he changed his fb profile to single. He wrote a brief message stating that he'll ignore any attempt I make to try to contact him.


----------



## dragonfly92

sokillme said:


> OP what do you imagine Dorothy was feeling then?


Unbearable pain, suffering and humiliation 
She didn't deserve any of this at all; no one ever does. I'm writting a message to her now, which I included my number too.



sokillme said:


> What do you think she is feeling now?


The same upon finding out I was the fiancee and our upcoming meeting tomorrow.



sokillme said:


> What do you think your ex is feeling?


Total disappointment in me and our former relationship
He doesn't want to speak to nor heard from me at this moment, nothing I have to say.


----------



## Bonkers

CktBridge said:


> Sounds almost identical to the plot of the movie "You Again"
> 
> .imdb. /title/tt1414382/


Damn, great call right there. 

I'm out.

Here's the movie summary for those considering spending their valuable time posting on this thread:

_When a young woman realizes her brother is about to marry the girl who bullied her in high school, she sets out to expose the fiancée's true colors. As a teenager Marni was the kind of girl no guy would go near and would be tormented by the mean girls, and no one was meaner to her than Joana the head cheerleader. Years later, she's a successful woman with a good job. When she goes home for her brother's wedding she discovers that her brother is marrying Joana. And he doesn't know what she did to Marni. When they meet she wants Joana to apologize for the way she treated her but Joana feigns ignorance._


----------



## wilson

dragonfly92 said:


> Total disappointment in me and our former relationship
> He doesn't want to speak to nor heard from me at this moment, nothing I have to say.


I'm sorry to say, but the best thing for everyone is for you two to split up. A successful marriage is tough enough even in the best of circumstances. Starting out with these issues would make it much, much harder. Not only would your fiance have to forgive you, but the cousin and the rest of the family would as well. That's just not very likely. Lingering bad feelings will haunt this relationship forever.


----------



## sokillme

dragonfly92 said:


> I'm not fighting to win him back because he doesn't want to hear anything I have to say at this moment. During our last conversation we had yesterday night, he would cut me off saying (even when I tried apologizing) ''stop talking will you''.
> I tried calling him once just 30 mins ago and he didn't pick up. He then texted ''Don't call me, I want to be left alone now.''.
> 
> I saw he changed his fb profile to single. He wrote a brief message stating that he'll ignore any attempt I make to try to contact him.


My feeling is he wants to see change and growth first. 

How would you feel if you were Dorothy?

What would you have done if in high school someone was doing to you that you did to her?


----------



## sokillme

Bonkers said:


> Damn, great call right there.
> 
> I'm out.
> 
> Here's the movie summary for those considering spending their valuable time posting on this thread:
> 
> _When a young woman realizes her brother is about to marry the girl who bullied her in high school, she sets out to expose the fiancée's true colors. As a teenager Marni was the kind of girl no guy would go near and would be tormented by the mean girls, and no one was meaner to her than Joana the head cheerleader. Years later, she's a successful woman with a good job. When she goes home for her brother's wedding she discovers that her brother is marrying Joana. And he doesn't know what she did to Marni. When they meet she wants Joana to apologize for the way she treated her but Joana feigns ignorance._


Sounds like a good premise and it's got Kristen Bell.


----------



## Cynthia

dragonfly92 said:


> My transgression back to my HS version when I called her Dorka was the result of feeling pestered/harrassed by her so much and her unwillingness to start all over as strangers meeting for the first time; to see how I've changed. I felt trapped and didn't know what to do so I reacted.
> Prior to that argument, I tried everything possible to make her feel comfortable. I've tried so hard to move away from my past. I didn't want to be reminded of the time I was such an awful person.


You proved that you haven't changed all that much. It takes maturity to remain calm and not react when under pressure, but instead you reverted back to childhood. That is not a good sign going forward. Being prone to mistreating people when you are upset is not a good sign for a healthy relationship. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good is a place to start on your journey forward.


----------



## Bonkers

sokillme said:


> Sounds like a good premise and it's got Kristen Bell.


Sounds like a fun movie. Everybody likes a plot where the bully gets bit by the karma bug, but it got crappy reviews.


----------



## turnera

dragonfly92 said:


> I was engaged for 4 months until last week. I've been eating nothing but junk food.
> 
> My fiance's female cousin showed him her diary and an old recorder I had no idea she had, of us calling her a loser, the W word and a bunch of other things in HS (we did other stuff too). Though there was no footage, my voice was heard the most. I was the main ringleader back then. I'm now 25.
> 
> Prior to that, I knew who she was when my fiance mentioned that she was going to stop by for a couple weeks. She doesn't have fb. I really thought I could just start all over with her so I pretended not to remember her (even invited her to a girl's hang out with my friends but she declined it; I also gave her a chocolate box when meeting her again but found out she gave it to someone else). She wouldn't let it go and kept mentioning a couple times about if I remembered her when we were alone in private or sarcastically saying at the dining table in front of everyone ''It's so interesting that we never met before''.
> 
> I admitted that I lost my cool after too much of that and in private when she tried again to make a sarcastic comment, I said ''Leave me alone already. Go away. What proof you got anyways Dorka''. I reverted back to calling her by her old HS nickname Dorka since her name is Dorothy. I was pissed off at that moment.
> 
> I wanted to take it all back but it was too late. She showed it the following day. My fiance says he needs time to think about all this.
> 
> Update as of today:
> I received a message from her on my fb (apparently she just created a fb act) that she just wants to talk and if I can meet her. I set it up for Saturday. Not sure if there is any point at this moment. My fiance just broke off the engagement an hour ago. Help.
> 
> Any suggestions would be helpful.


Is this for real?

You're a bully and a diva and you get kicks out of picking on people and now that your ex-fiance has seen the real version of you, you want back what you lost, but nowhere in there do you acknowledge that you yourself are the one who deserves the W title. Sounds like he's lucky he found out in time.


----------



## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> I wonder if the cousin is satisfied that she has now destroyed an engagement. Acting in vengeance isn't the way to go.


My bet is that the cousin believes that she saved him from marrying a bully who will treat him like this when problems occur in their relationship.

This is not only about what the OP did to the cousin, it's about her lack of honesty and her propensity that still exists to bully others.


----------



## dragonfly92

I don't know about this You Again movie (it shouldn't be categorize as comedy as there is nothing funny about it) but seeing the summary made me feel even worse. I wasn't a cheerleader though, just a stupid popular girl who always had the ability to make friends very easily from an early age. I took advantage of that in a negative way and wish to take it all back if I had a magic wand. 

She replied back so fast, thanking me for giving my number and it's very depressing. She's online at this moment so we're talking on messenger. I'm the only reason she even created her first fb account. She didn't want to be on any social medias and only would communicate with either her family, her co-workers or few closest college friends. 

sokillme,
If I was Dorothy I would be feeling terrible. Now, if someone was doing that in HS I would be standing up to the person getting bullied.


----------



## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> I wanted to take it back afterwards; after I've calmed down. I came earlier the following day to admit it and make it up to her but it was too late by then. She already told him everything and also had our conversation recorded. Then my ex fiance confronted with all that. I love his family. They were all like a 2nd family to me.


I was married to a man who did this. He used to have angry outbursts in which he said horrible things to me. He would verbally bully me, calling my name, putting me down, and so forth. Then when he was calmed down later he would say that he really did not mean them. That's a typical tactic of a bully (aka an abuser). 

This is something that you need to realize, the things said in anger are important because they spew out when anger breaks the lock on our deepest thoughts... and that anger empties out our cash of secret thoughts... you know, the things that you really believe/feel. The purpose of the anger is to injure/control the other person so that you gain power over them.

Not all people use anger this way. The people who do are basically bullies/abusers.

You clearly are an abusive person. I'm sure that most of the time you are nice to others. But you have the capacity to use bullying/abuse to gain power and control others. I'm not saying this to be mean or to beat up on you. I'm saying it because you have a problem that is going to destroy your relationships if you don't address it. This bad situation has given you a gift... insight into a huge character flaw that you have. Now you have a choice to make.. keep making excuses or admit it and fix it. That's up to you.

Why did your previous relationships end?


----------



## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> We actually have no idea what reason he had for ending it, whether it was the old bullying, the new stuff, or both.


Yes we do... she tells us that he said in her posts.


----------



## Diana7

If he cant forgive you for your mistakes, then he wont forgive you for any mistakes you make in the future. His love is conditional upon you being perfect it seems.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Diana7 said:


> If he cant forgive you for your mistakes, then he wont forgive you for any mistakes you make in the future. His love is conditional upon you being perfect it seems.


I would disagree. I think he expects her to be honest. The time to find out if someone is dishonest is while dating and being engaged. Not after getting married. 

The fault in all this is clearly the OP. Not her ex fiance. He had every right to break off the engagement.


----------



## Yag-Kosha

Diana7 said:


> If he cant forgive you for your mistakes, then he wont forgive you for any mistakes you make in the future.


So if you find out that your husband/SO *tortured* a loved family member several years ago over a period of years making their life a living nightmare. Doing the kind of things to them that lead many to suicide. It's just good to forgive and move on? Surely, you can't be that naive.



Diana7 said:


> His love is conditional upon you being perfect it seems.


Really?...


----------



## Cynthia

Diana7 said:


> If he cant forgive you for your mistakes, then he wont forgive you for any mistakes you make in the future. His love is conditional upon you being perfect it seems.


As you well know, forgiveness does not equal reconciliation. Furthermore, just because someone apologizes when caught doesn't mean they understand what they did wrong and have had a heart change. In this case, as well as many others I've seen, it indicates being sorrowful to be in this position and wanting to make it go away.


----------



## sokillme

dragonfly92 said:


> I don't know about this You Again movie (it shouldn't be categorize as comedy as there is nothing funny about it) but seeing the summary made me feel even worse. I wasn't a cheerleader though, just a stupid popular girl who always had the ability to make friends very easily from an early age. I took advantage of that in a negative way and wish to take it all back if I had a magic wand.
> 
> She replied back so fast, thanking me for giving my number and it's very depressing. She's online at this moment so we're talking on messenger. I'm the only reason she even created her first fb account. She didn't want to be on any social medias and only would communicate with either her family, her co-workers or few closest college friends.
> 
> sokillme,
> If I was Dorothy I would be feeling terrible. Now, if someone was doing that in HS I would be standing up to the person getting bullied.


If it were me I would write an apology including what I did, why it was wrong and then post it on her FB page. Essentially outing myself. (but that's probably why I would never even think to do something like that.) I mean she stayed off social media because she was afraid you would bully her still, and sadly she was right. Imagine the kind of damage you did that a 25 year old women is still afraid of dealing with your crazy. You need to make this right, make your father proud.


----------



## sokillme

Diana7 said:


> If he cant forgive you for your mistakes, then he wont forgive you for any mistakes you make in the future. His love is conditional upon you being perfect it seems.


Wow, this is not how I suspected you would address this. She lied to him for a long time even up to the point where she met his cousin. I think it's a little more then a mistake. It makes her a risk.


----------



## EleGirl

sokillme said:


> If it were me I would write an apology including what I did, why it was wrong and then post it on her FB page. Essentially outing myself. (but that's probably why I would never even think to do something like that.) I mean she stayed off social media because she was afraid you would bully her still, and sadly she was right. Imagine the kind of damage you did that a 25 year old women is still afraid of dealing with your crazy. You need to make this right, make your father proud.


Posting something like that on her fb page is a really bad idea. Keep in mind that employers now look at a person's facebook page and will either not hire, or fire someone based on what they post. The OP is working on an Masters degree. I assume she will be looking for a job in her chosen field. Having that short of post on her fb could lead to her not getting job offers.

Further, when a person gives an apology, it must be done in a way that does not extract flesh from their victim. I believe that posting something on her fb to apologize for horrid things she did to the cousin will end up humiliating the cousin. I rather doubt that the cousin wants to see her public humiliations from high school now poster on the internet for all to see... after all not everyone in the cousin's life today know about what happened to her in high school. But if the OP did this (a very selfish display of an apology), now everyone in the cousin's life who reads her timeline will see how she was humiliated over and over again. It will tarnish the cousin's current relationships.

Perhaps the OP could ask the cousin what she needs in the way of an apology and penitence. The fact is that the cousin might say that she needs nothing. that I would understand because I don't think that the adult OP can make up for what the teen OP did. there is no way to set that right. The damage was done a long time ago.


----------



## Magnesium

sokillme said:


> Wow, this is not how I suspected you would address this. She lied to him for a long time even up to the point where she met his cousin. I think it's a little more then a mistake. It makes her a risk.


And not dumping her would make him a FOOL.

I am often quite confused by the inconsistency of Diana's remarks.


----------



## sokillme

EleGirl said:


> Posting something like that on her fb page is a really bad idea. Keep in mind that employers now look at a person's facebook page and will either not hire, or fire someone based on what they post. The OP is working on an Masters degree. I assume she will be looking for a job in her chosen field. Having that short of post on her fb could lead to her not getting job offers.
> 
> Further, when a person gives an apology, it must be done in a way that does not extract flesh from their victim. I believe that posting something on her fb to apologize for horrid things she did to the cousin will end up humiliating the cousin. I rather doubt that the cousin wants to see her public humiliations from high school now poster on the internet for all to see... after all not everyone in the cousin's life today know about what happened to her in high school. But if the OP did this (a very selfish display of an apology), now everyone in the cousin's life who reads her timeline will see how she was humiliated over and over again. It will tarnish the cousin's current relationships.
> 
> Perhaps the OP could ask the cousin what she needs in the way of an apology and penitence. The fact is that the cousin might say that she needs nothing. that I would understand because I don't think that the adult OP can make up for what the teen OP did. there is no way to set that right. The damage was done a long time ago.


This is a fair take, I am not on FB so I don't really know the edicate.


----------



## dragonfly92

My ex fiance's uncle (her father) just called me an hour ago conforming he's going to be driving her to our meeting tomorrow. He was very upset about her meeting me by herself. The man didn't accept any of my apologies, which I don't blame him. He explained that his wife has been crying all night long ever since she found out about it. She's their only child and they didn't know about it till recently. From the beginning of the call he said ''Do you realize what I would do to you right now if you were a man don't you....we wouldn't even be having this conversation''.


----------



## dragonfly92

EleGirl said:


> Why did your previous relationships end?


I wasn't too serious during my first two years of HS. I would get bored and date someone else after a while. 

During my Junior yr I had 3 bfs. 
Bf 1: I broke up because he cheated. I didn't really love him though so it wasn't very impacting. 
Bf 2: He moved out of state and we went our separate ways
Bf 3: We broke up after an argument, in which I punched him. It was wrong and that's the only time I ever hit someone.

Senior yr:
Bf 1: He had an overprotective mother and I found it boring that he couldn't make his own decisions.
Bf 2: Long-distance, it was getting no where and he was 15 years my senior

I dated a couple guys during my college years but decided to focus more on college and felt I was too young for marriage and kids. Finally, I met my ex fiance during the summer of 2014 and really fell in love with him.


----------



## Diana7

dragonfly92 said:


> My ex fiance's uncle (her father) just called me an hour ago conforming he's going to be driving her to our meeting tomorrow. He was very upset about her meeting me by herself. The man didn't accept any of my apologies, which I don't blame him. He explained that his wife has been crying all night long ever since she found out about it. She's their only child and they didn't know about it till recently. From the beginning of the call he said ''Do you realize what I would do to you right now if you were a man don't you....we wouldn't even be having this conversation''.


So she hadn't even told her parents about it after all this time? Isnt that odd after all these years?
Doesn't he realise that's its her who has asked to see you and not the other way round? 

I hope the meeting goes ok. You cant do more now than apologise and you have done that many times now. Just say sorry again and if she isn't prepared to accept it you may have to just leave. She has already ended your engagement, what more can she do? She may well be recording it as well so be prepared for that. I hope that she wants to meet you for good motives, to talk this out and to accept the apology and clear the air between you both, but who knows what her reasons are. 

Yes, bullying is awful and really pretty common. Most of us have experienced some degree of it at school. Kids are pretty cruel sometimes, that's life. We have to move on and forgive and get on with our lives or it will hold us back forever. 

I couldn't live with myself if I was responsible for ending someone's engagement even if they had been mean to me.


----------



## Diana7

Magnesium said:


> And not dumping her would make him a FOOL.
> 
> I am often quite confused by the inconsistency of Diana's remarks.


I believe that there is forgiveness and restoration for past mistakes. It seems that most people here never did anything wrong in their past. :surprise:
With repentance there can be a fresh start. if a person isn't admitting what they did, or denying it or making excuses then ok, but that's not the case here. 
I sense true sorrow for her actions and she has taken all the horrible things said to her and not tried to defend herself. She has been very  honest here with all that she has done. 

I cant stand it when someone does something terrible and will never apologise, but when they do I am all for forgiving and letting it go. Its good for them and good for us. Its very unhealthy to hang onto bitterness and hurt and anger in our lives. On a desire for vengance and harm to the other person.


----------



## turnera

dragonfly92 said:


> My ex fiance's uncle (her father) just called me an hour ago conforming he's going to be driving her to our meeting tomorrow. He was very upset about her meeting me by herself. The man didn't accept any of my apologies, which I don't blame him. He explained that his wife has been crying all night long ever since she found out about it. She's their only child and they didn't know about it till recently. From the beginning of the call he said ''Do you realize what I would do to you right now if you were a man don't you....we wouldn't even be having this conversation''.


How does that make you feel? About yourself and how people FEEL about you?


----------



## turnera

Diana7 said:


> So she hadn't even told her parents about it after all this time? Isnt that odd after all these years?


I take it you've never dealt with bullies or been bullied. Bullying causes SHAME, DOUBT, FEAR, and self-recrimination. It's the perfect storm of NOT telling your parents.


----------



## turnera

Diana7 said:


> I believe that there is forgiveness and restoration for past mistakes. It seems that most people here never did anything wrong in their past. :surprise:
> With repentance there can be a fresh start. if a person isn't admitting what they did, or denying it or making excuses then ok, but that's not the case here.
> *I sense true sorrow for her actions *and she has taken all the horrible things said to her and not tried to defend herself. She has been very honest here with all that she has done.
> 
> I cant stand it when someone does something terrible and will never apologise, but when they do I am all for forgiving and letting it go. Its good for them and good for us. Its very unhealthy to hang onto bitterness and hurt and anger in our lives. On a desire for vengance and harm to the other person.


I know a lot about psychology. I can tell by the words someone uses whether they are sincere, introspective, or feeling true sorrow.

You are being conned.


----------



## dragonfly92

turnera said:


> How does that make you feel? About yourself and how people FEEL about you?


As if I was the most awful person on earth.


----------



## dragonfly92

turnera said:


> I know a lot about psychology. I can tell by the words someone uses whether they are sincere, introspective, or feeling true sorrow.
> 
> You are being conned.


I know you don't believe me. I don't expect it either but I'm truly sorry for everything.


----------



## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> dragonfly92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My ex fiance's uncle (her father) just called me an hour ago conforming he's going to be driving her to our meeting tomorrow. He was very upset about her meeting me by herself. The man didn't accept any of my apologies, which I don't blame him. He explained that his wife has been crying all night long ever since she found out about it. She's their only child and they didn't know about it till recently. From the beginning of the call he said ''Do you realize what I would do to you right now if you were a man don't you....we wouldn't even be having this conversation''.
> 
> 
> 
> So she hadn't even told her parents about it after all this time? Isnt that odd after all these years?
> Doesn't he realise that's its her who has asked to see you and not the other way round?
> 
> I hope the meeting goes ok. You cant do more now than apologise and you have done that many times now. Just say sorry again and if she isn't prepared to accept it you may have to just leave. She has already ended your engagement, what more can she do? She may well be recording it as well so be prepared for that. I hope that she wants to meet you for good motives, to talk this out and to accept the apology and clear the air between you both, but who knows what her reasons are.
> 
> Yes, bullying is awful and really pretty common. Most of us have experienced some degree of it at school. Kids are pretty cruel sometimes, that's life. We have to move on and forgive and get on with our lives or it will hold us back forever.
> 
> I couldn't live with myself if I was responsible for ending someone's engagement even if they had been mean to me.
Click to expand...

Wow. Really????

The cousin didn't end the engagement. OPs fiance ended the engagement.

OP baited Dorothy. "What proof you got anyways, Dorka?" Did you read that part, Diana? OP wanted to hide the past, would not admit to the past and that she knew Dorothy, then said what proof you got? 

I guess she had some, eh?

Diana did you read the accounts of how this girl was bullied? Are you really that dense that you can't see how serious it was?

It almost feels like maybe you were a bully in the past, the way you are blowing off the impact that kind of extreme bullying has. It takes an extreme kind of personality to be able to bully someone like that.


----------



## Tiggy!

Diana7 said:


> I believe that there is forgiveness and restoration for past mistakes. It seems that most people here never did anything wrong in their past. :surprise:
> *With repentance there can be a fresh start. if a person isn't admitting what they did, or denying it or making excuses then ok, but that's not the case here.*
> I sense true sorrow for her actions and she has taken all the horrible things said to her and not tried to defend herself. She has been very honest here with all that she has done.
> 
> I cant stand it when someone does something terrible and will never apologise, but when they do I am all for forgiving and letting it go. Its good for them and good for us. Its very unhealthy to hang onto bitterness and hurt and anger in our lives. On a desire for vengance and harm to the other person.


That wasn't the case, the OP acted like she didn't remember her fiancés cousin and had the audacity to be frustrated with the cousin for confronting the op on her bs (even reverting back to her high school derogatory name for the cousin), from my understanding the OP only started expressing remorse after her actions started impacting her own life.


OP if 'Dorka' never confronted you or didn't have the evidence do you think you would have ever apologized for bulling her?


----------



## turnera

dragonfly92 said:


> I know you don't believe me. I don't expect it either but I'm truly sorry for everything.


ANYONE can be sorry.

It's what you do AFTER you feel sorry that matters.

So what are you doing about it?


----------



## dragonfly92

Tiggy! said:


> OP if 'Dorka' didn't have the evidence do you think you would have ever apologized to her for what you did to her?


If you didn't read one my other posts, I mentioned after I've calmed down, I knew I blew it big time (after calling her that name) and was about to admit it, as well as apologize to her. 
I was on my way earlier the next day. I had intention of doing the right thing but she had already told him everything and had both recordings (the old one and the new one). Bad timing. It was too late at that moment.
So the answer to your question is yes.


----------



## dragonfly92

turnera said:


> ANYONE can be sorry.
> 
> It's what you do AFTER you feel sorry that matters.
> 
> So what are you doing about it?


Meet her tomorrow and let her say all she wants too


----------



## Tiggy!

dragonfly92 said:


> If you didn't read one my other posts, I mentioned after I've calmed down, I knew I blew it big time and was about to admit it, as well as apologize to her.
> I was on my way earlier the next day. I had intention of doing the right thing but she had already told him everything and had both recordings (the old one and the new one). Bad timing. It was too late at that moment.
> So the answer to your question is yes.


I mean If the cousin never mentioned what happened and there was never a confrontation, do you think you would have ever apologized to her or just continued to pretend nothing ever happened?


----------



## dragonfly92

Tiggy! said:


> I mean If the cousin never mentioned what happened and there was never a confrontation, do you think you would have ever apologized to her or just continued to pretend nothing ever happened?


I would assume she was forgiving me (or already had) and continue treat her as best as possible by being a friend and inviting her to girls' hang-outs. 
Much later on (probably within several months or a couple years later), when I'm ready then I would apologize. I admit I'm very slow when it comes to owning up to mistakes and facing awkward situations. 

The answer is a yes again but at a much slower pace.


----------



## dragonfly92

EleGirl said:


> Perhaps the OP could ask the cousin what she needs in the way of an apology and penitence. The fact is that the cousin might say that she needs nothing. that I would understand because I don't think that the adult OP can make up for what the teen OP did. there is no way to set that right. The damage was done a long time ago.


Nope, there is no way I can ever repair for those whole years. 
When we were chatting on messenger, at some point she wanted to know what it was like being me, what's it like having many followers, what I felt at that moment, etc.


----------



## sokillme

dragonfly92 said:


> Nope, there is no way I can ever repair for those whole years.
> When we were chatting on messenger, at some point she wanted to know what it was like being me, what's it like having many followers, what I felt at that moment, etc.


Oh God. :surprise:

What is it like being you? What is it like to have so many 'followers'? Ha ha. 'FOLLOWERS??'

What so you have a bunch of Facebook friends and that makes you something? Again not to be mean (though that didn't stop you) you seem so immature. You tortured a human being for years. Something is not right here. I don't think you really get this, even when you attempt to show contrition it seems to always end up focused about you. Like does that last post embarrass you? Again here you are someone who tortured her and she is asking you what it is like to be you. I would be ashamed. 

You should do your thesis on the long term ramifications of adolescent bullying. But not for the bulled like probably 100s have done before but for the bully. With a focus on the correlation of adolescent bullying with narcissism and psychopathy. I bet it would be eye opening for you.


----------



## dragonfly92

sokillme said:


> Oh God. :surprise:
> 
> What is it like being you? What is it like to have so many 'followers'? Ha ha. 'FOLLOWERS??'
> 
> What so you have a bunch of Facebook friends and that makes you something? Again not to be mean (though that didn't stop you) you seem so immature. You tortured a human being for years.
> 
> You should do your thesis on the long term ramifications of adolescent bullying. But not for the bulled like probably 100s have done before but for the bully. With a focus on the correlation of adolescent bullying with narcissism and psychopathy. I bet it would be eye opening for you.


She was referring to our HS years; my friends, a couple guys and others would joined in the bullying at the time but most wouldn't have done anything if it weren't for me. The conversation switched from her sharing her experience about crying countless nights and more depressing stuff to asking about my side of the story. 

This was one of her messages while we were talking and I was explaining my version:
I'm trying to understand your world but it's hard. I still can't understand how someone can spend 4 entire years putting so much energy in tormenting someone and enjoy it.

I lost track of how many times I've apologized on the messenger by now to which she would replied ''I'm accepting it but at the same time reliving those years all over again''.

You're right. I'll change my thesis and work on that.


----------



## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> I would assume she was forgiving me (or already had) and continue treat her as best as possible by being a friend and inviting her to girls' hang-outs.
> Much later on (probably within several months or a couple years later), when I'm ready then I would apologize. I admit I'm very slow when it comes to owning up to mistakes and facing awkward situations.
> 
> The answer is a yes again but at a much slower pace.


You are here answering people's posts, trying to defend yourself. But with posts like this, you keep digging a deeper hole. It's all about you... that in a few months or a couple of years you might have apologized.

Seriously, I hope you do not go see her in person tomorrow. You really need to just leave her alone. And then just go on and work on yourself.


----------



## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> She was referring to our HS years; my friends, a couple guys and others would joined in the bullying at the time but most wouldn't have done anything if it weren't for me. The conversation switched from her sharing her experience about crying countless nights and more depressing stuff to asking about my side of the story.
> 
> This was one of her messages while we were talking and I was explaining my version:
> 
> I'm trying to understand your world but it's hard. *I still can't understand how someone can spend 4 entire years putting so much energy in tormenting someone and enjoy it.*
> 
> I lost track of how many times I've apologized on the messenger by now to which she would replied ''I'm accepting it but at the same time reliving those years all over again''.
> 
> You're right. I'll change my thesis and work on that.


I can understand her inability to understand how you could do the things you did. Most people don't treat others that way because it's just not the way their mind works. So they cannot understand how another person can do such horrible things.


----------



## Andy1001

dragonfly92 said:


> She was referring to our HS years; my friends, a couple guys and others would joined in the bullying at the time but most wouldn't have done anything if it weren't for me. The conversation switched from her sharing her experience about crying countless nights and more depressing stuff to asking about my side of the story.
> 
> This was one of her messages while we were talking and I was explaining my version:
> I'm trying to understand your world but it's hard. I still can't understand how someone can spend 4 entire years putting so much energy in tormenting someone and enjoy it.
> 
> I lost track of how many times I've apologized on the messenger by now to which she would replied ''I'm accepting it but at the same time reliving those years all over again''.
> 
> You're right. I'll change my thesis and work on that.


You know dragonfly I don’t think you give a damn about what you did years ago and I see an underlying sense of pride that you were the popular girl in school and that you had “followers”.
I know people like you and they never let go of the past because that’s where they still want to be.You were one of the popular girls in school,big ****ing deal.Some other losers looked up to you and you felt like the queen of nowhereville high school.
I hate bullies,as a kid I was bullied because I was smart, and on numerous occasions over the years I have called people out on it and you know what? Like you they are cowards behind it all and always have an excuse.
Your ex fiancé got lucky in my opinion because you haven’t changed a bit.


----------



## RonP

I was bullied. Best thing I ever did was stand up to him. She's just doing the same and you will have to deal with it.


----------



## dragonfly92

I'm going to sleep now and will keep you all updated about tomorrow's meeting. 

Andy1001,
Sorry to hear about what you went through. It's understandable that my story is upsetting you. Neither you nor Dorothy ever deserved any of that. I will agree with you that they're cowards and unfortunately I've acted that way for the longest by not owning up to my past. This is something I'll have to live with for the rest of my life; living with the fact that I hurt someone for years who could have had a great social life, friends or even a bf. 
I started feeling terrible shortly after my father's death, a couple weeks after our graduation. Ever since then I've been interested in helping those in need and changing my life, blocking anything that consisted of my terrible past I kept running away from. I would hardly talk about HS with new people or dates I met later on. The subject was very shameful to speak of. I fully regret everything I did at the time and accept all the consequences as a result.


----------



## dragonfly92

RonP said:


> I was bullied. Best thing I ever did was stand up to him. She's just doing the same and you will have to deal with it.


I understand. I wish I had never been a bully. If I could go back in time and was asked to change my past, I would.
I really do wish Dorothy the best.


----------



## Diana7

turnera said:


> I take it you've never dealt with bullies or been bullied. Bullying causes SHAME, DOUBT, FEAR, and self-recrimination. It's the perfect storm of NOT telling your parents.


I do know people who have been bullied yes, some in my own family, and while I can understand a child not telling their parents because they think that will make it worse, they are now in their mid 20's.


----------



## Diana7

dragonfly92 said:


> I'm going to sleep now and will keep you all updated about tomorrow's meeting.
> 
> Andy1001,
> Sorry to hear about what you went through. It's understandable that my story is upsetting you. Neither you nor Dorothy ever deserved any of that. I will agree with you that they're cowards and unfortunately I've acted that way for the longest by not owning up to my past. This is something I'll have to live with for the rest of my life; living with the fact that I hurt someone for years who could have had a great social life, friends or even a bf.
> I started feeling terrible shortly after my father's death, a couple weeks after our graduation. Ever since then I've been interested in helping those in need and changing my life, blocking anything that consisted of my terrible past I kept running away from. I would hardly talk about HS with new people or dates I met later on. The subject was very shameful to speak of. I fully regret everything I did at the time and accept all the consequences as a result.


Good for you, its clear that you are repentant and wanting to change, and remember, dont just ask for forgiveness, but learn to forgive yourself. Living with constant guilt and shame is a pointless waste of time and wont help you to be able to move on and be more compassionate and caring. 

Some have committed the most appalling acts and gone on to find forgiveness and their lives have changed dramatically. Its about leaning from past mistakes in the end. Some never do, but you have.


----------



## EleGirl

dragonfly92

This thread has been on my mind and has brought some unpleasant forward in my mind. I want to share this to hopefully give you some perspective.

When I was in 5th and 6th grades I was bullied by two teachers and some of the other kids in my class. Keep in mind that I am now 68 years old. This happened when I was in an American school in North Africa. So the other kids in the school were Americans and the children of diplomats from many countries. This sort of helps to explain part of what I’m about to share.

As I recall, during lunch one day I sat at a table with 4 of the girls from my glass. We were all talking then the girls started talking about their ‘boyfriends’. They told said that they were seeing US GI’s. These 5th grade girls claimed to be dating GI’s who were in their late teens or early 20’s. Maybe dating is the wrong word since from what they said the girls were sneaking out to see these guys. They were lying to their parents about where they were (at a friend’s house. Etc.) I sat there shocked and asked them questions and as I recall told them that they should not be doing this.

The next day I stayed home from school, probably was sick. When I returned to school. Now the teacher in that class was trying to teach us how a court of law works. If one of the kids had an issue with another one, they could file ‘charges’ against that student. Then the teacher would pick a ‘jury’, there would the a ‘trial’ and the student ‘judge’ would had down the sentence.

On the day that I stayed home, those 4 girls spread around the story that I was throwing pieces of my tuna sandwich and salad at them. They were able to get other kids to say that they saw me do that. It was a lie, but hey, they were popular girls with ‘followers’. The class put me on trial. Of course, the teacher forgot that in a trial the accused needed a lawyer, so I defended myself by simply stating that this was a trumped-up lie. How could I proved that I did not do that when the class bullies got more than half the class to join their lie? I was ‘convicted’ and sentenced to a week of blackboard duty. Blackboard duty meant that I could not go out to recess and had to wash down all the backboards in the class every recess. I cannot even express how horrific this experience was with the entire class and teacher humiliating me for something that I did not do.

From that point on, I was the target of those girls.

The next year, 6th grade, I had another abusive teacher. He fancied himself an artist. Just about every week he’d take the entire class out somewhere on a field trip to some place we could walk to and have to draw/paint the scenery.

I come from a family of artists. From an early age, my mom used to keep us all (all 8 of us kids) entertained with her ‘art class’. By the time I was in 6th grade I had copied dozens of Michael Angelo’s sketches (not painting, his sketches) of things like the human body, hands, etc. So I was a bit of a budding artist myself. 

Well this teacher was apparently angered by that. The walls in our classroom were papered by the student’s drawings. Sounds nice, huh? Well this teacher would go on a rampage every few days and when he did he would target me. He’d go up to my drawing that was taped to the wall like everyone else’s rip it off the wall and make comments like “This is the most horrible drawing I have ever seen’ and rip it to pieces.

I’m also a doodler. I kept a notebook of my drawings. A couple of times he went in my desk, in front of the class, took out my notebook and ripped it to pieces all the while yelling that my drawings were a disgrace, ugly, horrible… and on and on.

And there was more constant harassment from him. For example, one day we were passing our homework in by passing it to the person in front of us. I apparently did not move fast enough for him and we walked up and decked him with his fist (I kid you not) and knocked me out of my seat. When I got up off the floor, he pushed me out of the class, threw me outside and locked the door so I could not get back in.

Now on top of the teachers at this school being horrible, there was that horrible group of ‘popular’ kids. Starting with that incident in 5th grade, they tormented me on the playground. They would throw things at him, say mean things to me, the details are not important the lasting emotional pain is the point of this post. During the time when JFK was running for President, we were talking about the election in class. I’m Catholic as was JFK. I stated in the class that if I could vote, I would vote for JFK. Well there was a boy in the class who I had a crush on and apparently this boy had been taught that Catholics are the devil (very common hate taught even today) and that voting for JFK was bad. While we were talking he walked up to me, punched me in the stomach so hard that I folded in pain and then he kicked me in the head. A room full of my classmates and the teacher saw this. No one did anything.

It got to the point that I kept telling my parents that I could not go to school any more. I was called to the principle’s office one day because the principle and my parents were concerned about my ‘bad attitude’. Boy did I get angry. I told them what was going on with the teachers and other students. They did nothing.

This was about 58 years ago. I am amazed at the detail I still remember about these things. I don’t think of this often and unfortunately this thread brought it all back. But when I do remember it, all the details down to what I was eating at lunch that day, what the girls said, and how those teachers and students treaded me.

A few years ago, I stumbled on a Facebook group for the people who attended that school in North Africa. I joined. It sounded like fun. Well, do you know what happened, those students who tormented me were in that group. And do you know what they did? They remembered each other very well and were laughing and talking about ‘good times’. But they all pretended that they did not remember me. After a few weeks on that Facebook group I had to stop posting/reading there. It was no about no-forgiving them. It was that there is no resolution. I still have the emotional pain, it has not gone away in 58 years. All I can do it just not think about it. It’s not about them and whether or not they will apologize, it’s about the fact that what they did to me is still part of who I am. It does not go away. It’s still there buried and surfaces when something like that Facebook forum or this thread brings it up. 

People use the word ‘forgive’ like it’s some kind of magic that makes things go away. Only God forgives. People just learn to live with the **** that was thrown at them.

And on top of all that happened to me back then, do you know what bothers me the most? It bothered me back and then and still bothers me. No one seemed to care that those girls were being molested/raped by the GIs they were ‘dating’. One of the girls even said that her father knew what she, a 5th grader, was ‘dating’ a GI and he was ok with it. WTH?


----------



## turnera

Diana7 said:


> I do know people who have been bullied yes, some in my own family, and while I can understand a child not telling their parents because they think that will make it worse, they are now in their mid 20's.


Then it's clear you have no idea about psychology works and how it drives us. You don't just 'move on' from something or stop feeling the feelings you felt. I still feel the shame I felt 55 years ago from an incident. Just because someone is older doesn't mean they no longer have those feelings or beliefs.


----------



## turnera

dragonfly92 said:


> I would *assume she was forgiving me* (or already had) and continue treat her as best as possible by being a friend and inviting her to girls' hang-outs.
> *Much later* on (probably within several months or a couple years later), *when I'm ready* then I would apologize.


Ok, here's an important moment, dragonfly. Look at the bolded parts. YOU created a problem by being a bully. Then you disappeared for years, leaving the mess behind with never a thought. Then, when you HAD to be around the person you hurt, YOU chose to 'believe' she no longer blamed you for it. And - to protect yourself - you AGAIN don't bring it up, hoping you'd get away with it again. Then YOU decide that YOU will wait for years - no matter how SHE has been feeling this whole time, and when YOU feel you can control the situation and get the least amount of shyte on you, YOU will decide to open up the discussion. Again, so as to protect YOU.

I admire your willingness to bare your skeletons here and to realize you've done wrong, but I hope you realize there isn't a shred of compassion or remorse or humility in what you're saying. It's just a continuation of what you apparently have done your whole life -run things for your own benefit.

My point? If you truly want to be a better person, truly want people to like you and not just navigate around you so as to avoid getting HURT, you'll have to learn what humility really means. And, I suspect, you'll have to learn it with the help of a professional. That's my advice for you.


----------



## turnera

dragonfly92 said:


> Nope, there is no way I can ever repair for those whole years.
> When we were chatting on messenger, at some point she wanted to know what it was like being me, what's it like having many followers, what I felt at that moment, etc.


Actually, there IS a way.

As I said, it's called humility. 

Her asking you that was her trying to understand what would lead you to be so cruel.


----------



## turnera

dragonfly92 said:


> I understand. I wish I had never been a bully. If I could go back in time and was asked to change my past, I would.
> I really do wish Dorothy the best.


You don't have to change the past. You have to change your FUTURE.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> So she hadn't even told her parents about it after all this time? Isnt that odd after all these years?


 Nope. I am now questioning if you actually know anybody who has been legitimately bullied.


> Doesn't he realise that's its her who has asked to see you and not the other way round?
> 
> I hope the meeting goes ok. You cant do more now than apologise and you have done that many times now. Just say sorry again and if she isn't prepared to accept it you may have to just leave. She has already ended your engagement, what more can she do? She may well be recording it as well so be prepared for that. I hope that she wants to meet you for good motives, to talk this out and to accept the apology and clear the air between you both, but who knows what her reasons are.
> 
> Yes, bullying is awful and really pretty common. Most of us have experienced some degree of it at school. Kids are pretty cruel sometimes, that's life. We have to move on and forgive and get on with our lives or it will hold us back forever.
> 
> I couldn't live with myself if I was responsible for ending someone's engagement even if they had been mean to me.


Thank you. Now, I understand your posts. No, her fiance ended the engagement. Your blame shifting is amazing in this thread.

Teasing, bullying and being mean share elements, but they are not the same. What dragon did wasn't being mean or teasing, she psychologically scarred this young woman. I mean the victim secretly TAPED two conversations. IMO, that means NO ONE believed her about the bullying and most likely told her to suck it up and be strong. Honestly, it isn't just you, bullying has been over dramatized as evidence by your words. I'd argue teasing is common, bullying is not. This is why I hate the current bullying campaign, IMO, it has actually made it possible to say "kids are cruel" and get over it. Yes, you can get over teasing, you can get over someone being mean, bullying is abuse and purposely trying to tear someone down to nothing. No, not degrees and it just shows the problem of trying to lump all things under the name of bullying. What this woman did is akin to hazing, which IS a form of bullying where people are now getting charged and going to jail.

Tell you what, under the right circumstances, rape, bullying, abuse, molestation and a few others I would have no QUALMS about Informing a person and letting them DECIDE to end an engagement. Honestly, I'm surprised you are going easy on "**** shaming" aspect of her bullying. Yes, she worded it nicely, but lying on a woman's lack of virginity is trying to shame her. No, this isn't "they had been mean to me."


----------



## Malaise

phillybeffandswiss;18781641
Teasing said:


> What OP and her gang did was use Dorothy as a plaything. The way OP described doing what they wanted , verbally , physically and emotional in a way dehumanized "D" . "D" became their toy. Played with and discarded with not a thought "D" was a person. Or so it seems.


----------



## EleGirl

@dragonfly92,

I don’t think you truly realize the severity of some of the things you did. Most of what you describe is harassment and just mean. Some of it rises to the level that could be considered criminal.

Think of how you would react now to anyone at your work who treated you like you treated the cousin? You would have the basis for a criminal complaint of harassment.


dragonfly92 said:


> Those were several of the main things. I forgot to add something more degrading we did a couple times: carrying her and placing her in a garbage bin, treating it as a joke and two of us sitting on top for a couple minutes while she was yelling at us to let her out. We then flipped it to the right side and ran laughing.


Do you realize that this is not just bullying? It’s kidnapping, false imprisonment assault and battery. I’m sure that there are more crimes that a good DA could come up with if they knew the full extent of what happened.
Here is the definition of you:




*Kidnap* - take (someone) away illegally by force

*False Imprisonment* - The illegal confinement of one individual against his or her will by another individual in such a manner as to violate the confined individual's right to be free from restraint of movement.

*Assault and Battery* - the crime of threatening a person together with the act of making physical contact with them.



dragonfly92 said:


> - The slime incident where my friends (me leading them also) threw it at her during lunch


This is assault and battery . What do you think would happen today if you walked into work (or a restaurant or a store) and threw slime at someone? You would most likely be charged with assault.



dragonfly92 said:


> - Literally have others removed from several pep-rallies while I was in the front (leading the group; a couple guys were involved in this too) opening the exit door


How did this go down? How did you literally have others removed from several pep rallies? Does this mean that your gang of thugs helped you physically push people through the open door and remove them from the pep rally? That’s assault at the very least. Don’t’ believe me… go to work, or to a store, and do this to the people who are there. See how fast they call the police and you are charged with a crime.


----------



## Diana7

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Nope. I am now questioning if you actually know anybody who has been legitimately bullied.
> Thank you. Now, I understand your posts. No, her fiance ended the engagement. Your blame shifting is amazing in this thread.
> 
> Teasing, bullying and being mean share elements, but they are not the same. What dragon did wasn't being mean or teasing, she psychologically scarred this young woman. I mean the victim secretly TAPED two conversations. IMO, that means NO ONE believed her about the bullying and most likely told her to suck it up and be strong. Honestly, it isn't just you, bullying has been over dramatized as evidence by your words. I'd argue teasing is common, bullying is not. This is why I hate the current bullying campaign, IMO, it has actually made it possible to say "kids are cruel" and get over it. Yes, you can get over teasing, you can get over someone being mean, bullying is abuse and purposely trying to tear someone down to nothing. No, not degrees and it just shows the problem of trying to lump all things under the name of bullying. What this woman did is akin to hazing, which IS a form of bullying where people are now getting charged and going to jail.
> 
> Tell you what, under the right circumstances, rape, bullying, abuse, molestation and a few others I would have no QUALMS about Informing a person and letting them DECIDE to end an engagement. Honestly, I'm surprised you are going easy on "**** shaming" aspect of her bullying. Yes, she worded it nicely, but lying on a woman's lack of virginity is trying to shame her. No, this isn't "they had been mean to me."


So you dont think that if a person has done something wrong in their past they can have another chance? You dont think they can ever be forgiven if they are repentant? 
I have faced awful things in life but I have forgiven and let them go. Members of my family were sexually abused as children, they have forgiven and let it go. My husband's wife cheated on him and divorced him, he has forgiven and let it go. 

I believe in second chances and forgiveness. I also know that holding on to anger, bitterness and resentment will only harm the one holding onto those things. It will also stop them from moving forward and healing. 

In the end, its a choice as to whether we allow past hurts to define us and affect us for the rest of our lives, or whether we forgive and let them go. 
One lady who I know well who was abused by her dad as a child for many years, said that he may have ruined her childhood, but she wasn't going to let him ruin the rest of her life. She lives a full and happy life.


----------



## Andy1001

Diana7 said:


> So you dont think that if a person has done something wrong in their past they can have another chance? You dont think they can ever be forgiven if they are repentant?
> I have faced awful things in life but I have forgiven and let them go. Members of my family were sexually abused as children, they have forgiven and let it go. My husband's wife cheated on him and divorced him, he has forgiven and let it go.
> 
> I believe in second chances and forgiveness. I also know that holding on to anger, bitterness and resentment will only harm the one holding onto those things. It will also stop them from moving forward and healing.
> 
> In the end, its a choice as to whether we allow past hurts to define us and affect us for the rest of our lives, or whether we forgive and let them go.
> One lady who I know well who was abused by her dad as a child for many years, said that he may have ruined her childhood, but she wasn't going to let him ruin the rest of her life. She lives a full and happy life.


Diana if someone comes on tam and says they have been on the moon,you will claim to know “lots of people”who have been there too.
Every time you post on a thread you make the same claims.No matter what the problem is,whether it be infidelity,physical or sexual abuse,drug or alcohol addiction,people with a high previous partner count and now bullying,you will know lots of people in the same boat but they chose to forgive and move on.We all get it that you follow some religion or other but it’s time to change the record. @EleGirl what happened to you in school was shocking and is one of the worst cases of bullying/abuse I have ever heard of.My own case pales into insignificance in comparison to yours.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Just waiting for the meeting / meet up report. I'm more than a little worried for both of them.


----------



## turnera

Diana7 said:


> So you dont think that if a person has done something wrong in their past they can have another chance? You dont think they can ever be forgiven if they are repentant?
> I have faced awful things in life but I have forgiven and let them go. Members of my family were sexually abused as children, they have forgiven and let it go. My husband's wife cheated on him and divorced him, he has forgiven and let it go.


Of course we think someone deserves another chance. And OP has taken the first step. The FIRST step -acknowledgment. Now she has a dozen more steps -understanding, humility, grace, and more. 

Good for you that whatever you endured, you can forgive for. Your assumption that everyone can - and should - do the same is denigrating. 

If OP were here NOT talking about herself and showing humility, we'd be cheering her on. Since she hasn't reached that point yet, we are now here helping her understand, helping her reach the next step she needs to achieve. Expecting this all to go straight to the end of the result and let her achieve 'forgiveness' when she has done next to nothing to DESERVE forgiveness is a disservice to her AND to her victim.


----------



## EleGirl

turnera said:


> Of course we think someone deserves another chance. And OP has taken the first step. The FIRST step -acknowledgment. Now she has a dozen more steps -understanding, humility, grace, and more.
> 
> Good for you that whatever you endured, you can forgive for. Your assumption that everyone can - and should - do the same is denigrating.
> 
> If OP were here NOT talking about herself and showing humility, we'd be cheering her on. Since she hasn't reached that point yet, we are now here helping her understand, helping her reach the next step she needs to achieve. Expecting this all to go straight to the end of the result and let her achieve 'forgiveness' when she has done next to nothing to DESERVE forgiveness is a disservice to her AND to her victim.


I agree. The first step on the road to redemption is confession, humble confession.

Dragon has only started to process the confession stage is not yet at the 'humble confession' stage.

She did not only do wrong to the cousin in the past. She did wrong to her in the present.

And on top of that, she wronged her fiancé in the present.

Most here are not trying to beat up on Dragon, they are trying to help her get to the "humble confession" stage. 

The cousin and the fiancé have no obligation to accept her confession, or any statement that she is sorry or to forgive her. They have no good reason to give her a second chance really, even if she does confess with all sorts of humility piled on top of it. Why? Because they have no idea when and if she will actually be rid of that thing inside of her that leads her to be abusive of others.

If a person confesses and apologizes, expecting acceptance and forgiveness, they have not achieved the necessary level of humility.


----------



## xMadame

Well OP, I just read the entire thread, and I feel sorry for you.

You did some crappy things in the past, have atoned to it and seemed to have changed your life around. You had a moment in life where your past has been tossed in your face and now it seems you have lost everything.

I was bullied terribly when I was younger, but I grew up and allowed it to make me a better person. I did not allow bitterness or revenge set in and force me to turn my ugly head and be even more nasty in return.

You may have gotten frustrated and said some nasty things presently after being backed into a corner, but that does not mean that you are still that immature person that you were in high school.

No one is perfect, but what she did to you in retaliation is a wipe for what you did to her.

Big deal you did not tell your fiancee about what you did in high school. I dont remember everything I did back then and even if I did, that does not mean I need to confess every detail to my partner...it is not like you were charged with a crime and went to jail or slept with the entire football team.
You were a jerk back then. A first class jerk. Our pasts help us grow, that does not mean that who we were then are who we are today. Time allows people to grow and change. 

The cousin really needs some therapy. It sounds like she has a lot of anger built up inside her that she needs to work through. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Diana7

Andy1001 said:


> Diana if someone comes on tam and says they have been on the moon,you will claim to know “lots of people”who have been there too.
> Every time you post on a thread you make the same claims.No matter what the problem is,whether it be infidelity,physical or sexual abuse,drug or alcohol addiction,people with a high previous partner count and now bullying,you will know lots of people in the same boat but they chose to forgive and move on.We all get it that you follow some religion or other but it’s time to change the record.
> @EleGirl what happened to you in school was shocking and is one of the worst cases of bullying/abuse I have ever heard of.My own case pales into insignificance in comparison to yours.


MY husband and I have helped a lot of people who have been through horrible things, so we do come across a lot of abused and damaged people. There has also been sexual and emotional abuse in my family, so of course I have some experience of these things. 
My dad cheated, one SIL cheated 4 times, another SIL cheated, my husband's first wife cheated, I cant help it if I/we have had to face lots of things in life, some of which I have never mentioned here, but its certainly taught us a lot and has means we have had lots of experience to fall back on and learn form. 

You don't need to have a faith to know that forgiveness is freeing and healing. BTW I am a Christian, its not 'some faith or other'. 

I never claimed to know anyone with drug addiction problems BTW, only alcohol ones.


----------



## wild jade

No one is perfect, but if I found out my fiance was a bully -- and still is for that matter, I'd probably leave too. 

Can't imagine that a relationship with a bully is going to have a happy ending.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Diana7 said:


> So you dont think that if a person has done something wrong in their past they can have another chance? You dont think they can ever be forgiven if they are repentant?


 This is called a straw man argument. This is how derails start. My conclusions on these question have no bearing on the young woman in question being bullied and your attempt to say it is strange or her father is weird because they don't fit your behavior.


> I have faced awful things in life but I have forgiven and let them go. Members of my family were sexually abused as children, they have forgiven and let it go. My husband's wife cheated on him and divorced him, he has forgiven and let it go.


 This is called a false equivalence.



> I believe in second chances and forgiveness. I also know that holding on to anger, bitterness and resentment will only harm the one holding onto those things. It will also stop them from moving forward and healing.


 So? It has nothing to do with your avoidance of my point and the victim blaming you are engaging in. It is not up to you or the OP to decide when, where or how an abused or bullied person decides to let it go or forgive.



> In the end, its a choice as to whether we allow past hurts to define us and affect us for the rest of our lives, or whether we forgive and let them go.
> One lady who I know well who was abused by her dad as a child for many years, said that he may have ruined her childhood, but she wasn't going to let him ruin the rest of her life. She lives a full and happy life.


When you come from a false premise, like you have done, you create a false conclusion.
Let's make sure you understand my point. 

Forgiving someone does not mean you aren't angry about your bullying, forgot what the bullying was about and that you wouldn't try to protect someone from a person who seriously harmed you in the past. I am also pointing out how you diminish acts to fit your agenda. **** shaming is not just being mean. Getting someone kicked out of an assembly is not just being mean.


Tell you what, I'd hope and pray your harmed family members would speak up if these awful people could potentially hurt someone else forgiveness or not.


----------



## WilliamM

dragonfly92 said:


> I would assume she was forgiving me (or already had) and continue treat her as best as possible by being a friend and inviting her to girls' hang-outs.
> Much later on (probably within several months or a couple years later), when I'm ready then I would apologize. I admit I'm very slow when it comes to owning up to mistakes and facing awkward situations.
> 
> The answer is a yes again but at a much slower pace.


I wish there was some way to make you realize just how this statement shows you have not changed since your High School days.

If you had really changed you would have yearned to apologize the very first time an opportunity presented itself, with a truly heartfelt apology. You would be grateful for the opportunity to publicly acknowledge and apologize for your past evil if your victim showed an interest in a public apology.

That is what you would have done if you were actually no longer a bully.

The fact you do not understand this shows you have not changed.


----------



## dragonfly92

Hi guys,
She showed up with her parents but I must state the meeting got messy in the beginning with her mother. As soon as she got out of the front passenger side door (slamming it very hard) and saw me, it happened so fast that she slapped the hell out of me as hard as she could, then slapped me again, drawing some blood on my nose and a bit on my lips. I didn't fight her back. I let her take her anger at her. She started pulling my hair and screaming at me ''Do you realize what you did to our daughter, do you etc''. 
Dorothy was telling her mother to stop and finally her father got a hold of her. During that moment she kept yelling ''but she ruined our daughter's life, our baby''. Eventually I got left alone with Dorothy.

She asked if I was ok and was apologizing for the inconvenience with her mother. She doesn't agree with what her mother did. She stated that initially she wanted to get back at me and she made those comments on purpose to get me to react and record it all, that she thought it would make her feel better but it didn't. Her own words ''I wanted revenge at first, thought it would make me feel better but it didn't at all and for that I apologize''. 
We spoke more, in which she explained when I initially pretended not to remember her, she thought I felt no remorse at all and that I was still the same. Her experiences she shared were about the times we would surprise her outside when school ended, surround her in a large group and put her in the garbage bin and how I would loudly say ''Ready, take the trash out now'', when we would pushed her out of the pep-rallies and if it wasn't her it was another girl while I would say ''Get this thing out of here'' and then say ''loser'' as we were closing the gym door, the false rumor of her sleeping around and all the other things I've mentioned. She would be afraid of going out after graduating from school, always looking at the sides, wondering if she'll get ambushed by surprise, think everyone is out there to humiliate her, how she once thought about how it would be if she jump off a bridge, etc. At some point both of us started crying and I apologized again and again. 
After a long while, she asked for my story again and how it exactly felt like for me and how I felt whenever I was laughing so much during those events. Not sure how long we stayed talking but it was a long while.

She still wants to stay in contact with me on phone and messenger and said she's forgiving me. I told her she's free to speak to me whenever she wants to. Her parents, however hate me. Understandable.


----------



## dragonfly92

My mother came to visit me shortly afterwards and obviously freaked out upon seeing my swollen face and busted lips. She nearly wanted to call the cops. I told her no. She's upset at what her mother did. 
Honestly, I don't blame Dorothy's mother.

I must state that was the first time I ever got hit.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

dragonfly92 said:


> I must state that was the first time I ever got hit.


Thats the thing about bullies, they never get hit when they should have. Maybe it would have snapped you out of it if her mother did it sooner.


----------



## EleGirl

dragonfly92 

Things have changed a lot here in the USA since I was a kid. Schools are supposedly much more careful about bullies and are supposed to have programs to stop bullying. My children are near your age. I know that when they were in high school, it would have been next to impossible to harass a student to the extent that you did. 

Why did your school allow this bullying? For example you pushing her and other kids out of pep rallies? 

What's up with that?


----------



## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> Hi guys,
> She showed up with her parents but I must state the meeting got messy in the beginning with her mother. As soon as she got out of the front passenger side door (slamming it very hard) and saw me, it happened so fast that she slapped the hell out of me as hard as she could, then slapped me again, drawing some blood on my nose and a bit on my lips. I didn't fight her back. I let her take her anger at her. She started pulling my hair and screaming at me ''Do you realize what you did to our daughter, do you etc''.
> Dorothy was telling her mother to stop and finally her father got a hold of her. During that moment she kept yelling ''but she ruined our daughter's life, our baby''. Eventually I got left alone with Dorothy.
> 
> She asked if I was ok and was apologizing for the inconvenience with her mother. She doesn't agree with what her mother did. She stated that initially she wanted to get back at me and she made those comments on purpose to get me to react and record it all, that she thought it would make her feel better but it didn't. Her own words ''I wanted revenge at first, thought it would make me feel better but it didn't at all and for that I apologize''.
> We spoke more, in which she explained when I initially pretended not to remember her, she thought I felt no remorse at all and that I was still the same. Her experiences she shared were about the times we would surprise her outside when school ended, surround her in a large group and put her in the garbage bin and how I would loudly say ''Ready, take the trash out now'', when we would pushed her out of the pep-rallies and if it wasn't her it was another girl while I would say ''Get this thing out of here'' and then say ''loser'' as we were closing the gym door, the false rumor of her sleeping around and all the other things I've mentioned. She would be afraid of going out after graduating from school, always looking at the sides, wondering if she'll get ambushed by surprise, think everyone is out there to humiliate her, how she once thought about how it would be if she jump off a bridge, etc. At some point both of us started crying and I apologized again and again.
> After a long while, she asked for my story again and how it exactly felt like for me and how I felt whenever I was laughing so much during those events. Not sure how long we stayed talking but it was a long while.
> 
> She still wants to stay in contact with me on phone and messenger and said she's forgiving me. I told her she's free to speak to me whenever she wants to. Her parents, however hate me. Understandable.


Well it's too bad her mother went after you like that. I can understand her anger but not her actions.

You might just want to let your connection with her just die off. I don't see where having it will help. You fiancé will have a hard time moving on if you stay connected to his family. And my bet is that you will have a hard time dealing with your past and recent events if you do. And she might just be better off with not seeing you and being in contact with you to bring up the pain that she's had to deal with.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

EleGirl said:


> dragonfly92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> She showed up with her parents but I must state the meeting got messy in the beginning with her mother. As soon as she got out of the front passenger side door (slamming it very hard) and saw me, it happened so fast that she slapped the hell out of me as hard as she could, then slapped me again, drawing some blood on my nose and a bit on my lips. I didn't fight her back. I let her take her anger at her. She started pulling my hair and screaming at me ''Do you realize what you did to our daughter, do you etc''.
> Dorothy was telling her mother to stop and finally her father got a hold of her. During that moment she kept yelling ''but she ruined our daughter's life, our baby''. Eventually I got left alone with Dorothy.
> 
> She asked if I was ok and was apologizing for the inconvenience with her mother. She doesn't agree with what her mother did. She stated that initially she wanted to get back at me and she made those comments on purpose to get me to react and record it all, that she thought it would make her feel better but it didn't. Her own words ''I wanted revenge at first, thought it would make me feel better but it didn't at all and for that I apologize''.
> We spoke more, in which she explained when I initially pretended not to remember her, she thought I felt no remorse at all and that I was still the same. Her experiences she shared were about the times we would surprise her outside when school ended, surround her in a large group and put her in the garbage bin and how I would loudly say ''Ready, take the trash out now'', when we would pushed her out of the pep-rallies and if it wasn't her it was another girl while I would say ''Get this thing out of here'' and then say ''loser'' as we were closing the gym door, the false rumor of her sleeping around and all the other things I've mentioned. She would be afraid of going out after graduating from school, always looking at the sides, wondering if she'll get ambushed by surprise, think everyone is out there to humiliate her, how she once thought about how it would be if she jump off a bridge, etc. At some point both of us started crying and I apologized again and again.
> After a long while, she asked for my story again and how it exactly felt like for me and how I felt whenever I was laughing so much during those events. Not sure how long we stayed talking but it was a long while.
> 
> She still wants to stay in contact with me on phone and messenger and said she's forgiving me. I told her she's free to speak to me whenever she wants to. Her parents, however hate me. Understandable.
> 
> 
> 
> Well it's too bad her mother went after you like that. I can understand her anger but not her actions.
> 
> You might just want to let your connection with her just die off. I don't see where having it will help. You fiancé will have a hard time moving on if you stay connected to his family. And my bet is that you will have a hard time dealing with your past and recent events if you do. And she might just be better off with not seeing you and being in contact with you to bring up the pain that she's had to deal with.
Click to expand...

Do you think her staying around in the families life is her last ditch effort to get her fiance back? 

OP your ex dodged a bullet with you in my mind. Remove yourself from his entire family and let him go completely.


----------



## dragonfly92

EleGirl said:


> dragonfly92
> 
> Things have changed a lot here in the USA since I was a kid. Schools are supposedly much more careful about bullies and are supposed to have programs to stop bullying. My children are near your age. I know that when they were in high school, it would have been next to impossible to harass a student to the extent that you did.
> 
> Why did your school allow this bullying? For example you pushing her and other kids out of pep rallies?
> 
> What's up with that?


We never got caught and she never reported it. There were only two close calls but we would just say that she's feeling very sick and wants to leave and she wouldn't say anything.


----------



## dragonfly92

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Do you think her staying around in the families life is her last ditch effort to get her fiance back?
> 
> OP your ex dodged a bullet with you in my mind. Remove yourself from his entire family and let him go completely.


I'm not trying anything. I've already accepted my relationship is over and I'll be moving on. I'm giving her the closure she wants.


----------



## Not

dragonfly92 said:


> I'm not trying anything. I've already accepted my relationship is over and I'll be moving on. *I'm giving her the closure she wants*.


DF- can you explain the difference between humility and being a false martyr for us? Humility is not something you do, it's something you are.


----------



## Diana7

dragonfly92 said:


> Hi guys,
> She showed up with her parents but I must state the meeting got messy in the beginning with her mother. As soon as she got out of the front passenger side door (slamming it very hard) and saw me, it happened so fast that she slapped the hell out of me as hard as she could, then slapped me again, drawing some blood on my nose and a bit on my lips. I didn't fight her back. I let her take her anger at her. She started pulling my hair and screaming at me ''Do you realize what you did to our daughter, do you etc''.
> Dorothy was telling her mother to stop and finally her father got a hold of her. During that moment she kept yelling ''but she ruined our daughter's life, our baby''. Eventually I got left alone with Dorothy.
> 
> She asked if I was ok and was apologizing for the inconvenience with her mother. She doesn't agree with what her mother did. She stated that initially she wanted to get back at me and she made those comments on purpose to get me to react and record it all, that she thought it would make her feel better but it didn't. Her own words ''I wanted revenge at first, thought it would make me feel better but it didn't at all and for that I apologize''.
> We spoke more, in which she explained when I initially pretended not to remember her, she thought I felt no remorse at all and that I was still the same. Her experiences she shared were about the times we would surprise her outside when school ended, surround her in a large group and put her in the garbage bin and how I would loudly say ''Ready, take the trash out now'', when we would pushed her out of the pep-rallies and if it wasn't her it was another girl while I would say ''Get this thing out of here'' and then say ''loser'' as we were closing the gym door, the false rumor of her sleeping around and all the other things I've mentioned. She would be afraid of going out after graduating from school, always looking at the sides, wondering if she'll get ambushed by surprise, think everyone is out there to humiliate her, how she once thought about how it would be if she jump off a bridge, etc. At some point both of us started crying and I apologized again and again.
> After a long while, she asked for my story again and how it exactly felt like for me and how I felt whenever I was laughing so much during those events. Not sure how long we stayed talking but it was a long while.
> 
> She still wants to stay in contact with me on phone and messenger and said she's forgiving me. I told her she's free to speak to me whenever she wants to. Her parents, however hate me. Understandable.


Thats so good that the two of you have begun to clear the air and that she is forgiving you, that's SO important for her as well as you. She sounds like a mature young lady, unlike her violent mother. It was shame that they came with her.


----------



## Diana7

dragonfly92 said:


> My mother came to visit me shortly afterwards and obviously freaked out upon seeing my swollen face and busted lips. She nearly wanted to call the cops. I told her no. She's upset at what her mother did.
> Honestly, I don't blame Dorothy's mother.
> 
> I must state that was the first time I ever got hit.


What her mother did was very wrong, violence never solves anything. I can totally understand your mums horror.


----------



## dragonfly92

EleGirl said:


> dragonfly92
> 
> This thread has been on my mind and has brought some unpleasant forward in my mind. I want to share this to hopefully give you some perspective.
> 
> When I was in 5th and 6th grades I was bullied by two teachers and some of the other kids in my class. Keep in mind that I am now 68 years old. This happened when I was in an American school in North Africa. So the other kids in the school were Americans and the children of diplomats from many countries. This sort of helps to explain part of what I’m about to share.
> 
> As I recall, during lunch one day I sat at a table with 4 of the girls from my glass. We were all talking then the girls started talking about their ‘boyfriends’. They told said that they were seeing US GI’s. These 5th grade girls claimed to be dating GI’s who were in their late teens or early 20’s. Maybe dating is the wrong word since from what they said the girls were sneaking out to see these guys. They were lying to their parents about where they were (at a friend’s house. Etc.) I sat there shocked and asked them questions and as I recall told them that they should not be doing this.
> 
> The next day I stayed home from school, probably was sick. When I returned to school. Now the teacher in that class was trying to teach us how a court of law works. If one of the kids had an issue with another one, they could file ‘charges’ against that student. Then the teacher would pick a ‘jury’, there would the a ‘trial’ and the student ‘judge’ would had down the sentence.
> 
> On the day that I stayed home, those 4 girls spread around the story that I was throwing pieces of my tuna sandwich and salad at them. They were able to get other kids to say that they saw me do that. It was a lie, but hey, they were popular girls with ‘followers’. The class put me on trial. Of course, the teacher forgot that in a trial the accused needed a lawyer, so I defended myself by simply stating that this was a trumped-up lie. How could I proved that I did not do that when the class bullies got more than half the class to join their lie? I was ‘convicted’ and sentenced to a week of blackboard duty. Blackboard duty meant that I could not go out to recess and had to wash down all the backboards in the class every recess. I cannot even express how horrific this experience was with the entire class and teacher humiliating me for something that I did not do.
> 
> From that point on, I was the target of those girls.
> 
> The next year, 6th grade, I had another abusive teacher. He fancied himself an artist. Just about every week he’d take the entire class out somewhere on a field trip to some place we could walk to and have to draw/paint the scenery.
> 
> I come from a family of artists. From an early age, my mom used to keep us all (all 8 of us kids) entertained with her ‘art class’. By the time I was in 6th grade I had copied dozens of Michael Angelo’s sketches (not painting, his sketches) of things like the human body, hands, etc. So I was a bit of a budding artist myself.
> 
> Well this teacher was apparently angered by that. The walls in our classroom were papered by the student’s drawings. Sounds nice, huh? Well this teacher would go on a rampage every few days and when he did he would target me. He’d go up to my drawing that was taped to the wall like everyone else’s rip it off the wall and make comments like “This is the most horrible drawing I have ever seen’ and rip it to pieces.
> 
> I’m also a doodler. I kept a notebook of my drawings. A couple of times he went in my desk, in front of the class, took out my notebook and ripped it to pieces all the while yelling that my drawings were a disgrace, ugly, horrible… and on and on.
> 
> And there was more constant harassment from him. For example, one day we were passing our homework in by passing it to the person in front of us. I apparently did not move fast enough for him and we walked up and decked him with his fist (I kid you not) and knocked me out of my seat. When I got up off the floor, he pushed me out of the class, threw me outside and locked the door so I could not get back in.
> 
> Now on top of the teachers at this school being horrible, there was that horrible group of ‘popular’ kids. Starting with that incident in 5th grade, they tormented me on the playground. They would throw things at him, say mean things to me, the details are not important the lasting emotional pain is the point of this post. During the time when JFK was running for President, we were talking about the election in class. I’m Catholic as was JFK. I stated in the class that if I could vote, I would vote for JFK. Well there was a boy in the class who I had a crush on and apparently this boy had been taught that Catholics are the devil (very common hate taught even today) and that voting for JFK was bad. While we were talking he walked up to me, punched me in the stomach so hard that I folded in pain and then he kicked me in the head. A room full of my classmates and the teacher saw this. No one did anything.
> 
> It got to the point that I kept telling my parents that I could not go to school any more. I was called to the principle’s office one day because the principle and my parents were concerned about my ‘bad attitude’. Boy did I get angry. I told them what was going on with the teachers and other students. They did nothing.
> 
> This was about 58 years ago. I am amazed at the detail I still remember about these things. I don’t think of this often and unfortunately this thread brought it all back. But when I do remember it, all the details down to what I was eating at lunch that day, what the girls said, and how those teachers and students treaded me.
> 
> A few years ago, I stumbled on a Facebook group for the people who attended that school in North Africa. I joined. It sounded like fun. Well, do you know what happened, those students who tormented me were in that group. And do you know what they did? They remembered each other very well and were laughing and talking about ‘good times’. But they all pretended that they did not remember me. After a few weeks on that Facebook group I had to stop posting/reading there. It was no about no-forgiving them. It was that there is no resolution. I still have the emotional pain, it has not gone away in 58 years. All I can do it just not think about it. It’s not about them and whether or not they will apologize, it’s about the fact that what they did to me is still part of who I am. It does not go away. It’s still there buried and surfaces when something like that Facebook forum or this thread brings it up.
> 
> People use the word ‘forgive’ like it’s some kind of magic that makes things go away. Only God forgives. People just learn to live with the **** that was thrown at them.
> 
> And on top of all that happened to me back then, do you know what bothers me the most? It bothered me back and then and still bothers me. No one seemed to care that those girls were being molested/raped by the GIs they were ‘dating’. One of the girls even said that her father knew what she, a 5th grader, was ‘dating’ a GI and he was ok with it. WTH?


I've just finished reading your post. Thank you for sharing your story and so sorry that happened to you. This might probably not help too much but you can keep telling yourself that you never deserved what they did to you, you were never the problem and it's them that were horrible people. 

I woke up earlier this morning and I've been reaching out to a couple others on fb I was cruel and mean to back then. There are two of them I can't find and the other random girl we kicked out I don't know her name (we didn't have her on any of our classes).

There is a message from Dorothy thanking me for the meeting and that talking to me, letting it all out feels like therapy for her. Once again she apologized for her mother's actions and spoke to her mother about it. 

Honestly this is surprising to me. This is the very person that treated her below a human (worse than those other individuals I was cruel to), that destroyed her life, had no empathy for her at the time, the ringleader of all the incidents. I deserved what I got from her mother. Shouldn't she been feeling happy I got what I deserved? My mother would have reacted the same too. In fact, she still called her mother and their argument over the phone got bad.


----------



## dragonfly92

Diana7 said:


> What her mother did was very wrong, violence never solves anything. I can totally understand your mums horror.


I'm ok and honestly deserved it all. I don't blame her at all.


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## turnera

Diana7 said:


> What her mother did was very wrong, violence never solves anything. I can totally understand your mums horror.


Pffft. I would have done the same thing. Maybe not pulled the hair, but slap? You bet. You changed the ENTIRE COURSE of that poor woman's life (her daughter). She's like the mother of a star football player who gets paralyzed by a drunk driver; the entire course of her daughter's life was diverted.

Whatever she would have become is GONE because of the trauma and shame and humiliation you laughingly heaped on her for your own benefit.

You may not bully anymore, but she is stuck with toxic shame and an unrealized life. MAYBE with years of therapy, she may come out the other side a halfway happy person. 

But all of that was not necessary, not without your presence. YOU did this.

And the forgiving stuff? So what? She may forgive, but she'll never have the life she could have realized. My DD27 was put into a new school district in 7th grade. She made friends with a Mean Girl like you. Who at first was nice - until DD27 started getting more popular than her. She ruined my daughter's life for the next 5 years, in a dozen different ways. Most especially, the one girl DD WANTED to be best friends with was the best friend of the Mean Girl. That poor girl was SO wrapped around the bully's finger that she would have pushed someone into the street in front of a car had that girl told her to. Every time she'd get closer to my daughter, Mean Girl would do something else to DD. She even hired a limo for Prom to try to pry away the kids who were going to go to Prom with DD (in the limo I paid for, trying to get their friends to hang out with DD at the party), leaving DD all alone with her date and one other couple.

To this day, my daughter, who's gorgeous, smart, engaged to an amazing guy, the only one of all the kids to get a Master's degree and a real career, has one weakness - friends. It literally has the ability to ruin her, her need for people to like her and want to hang out with her. She'll do anything for them, just to get them to hang out with her, because that Mean Girl ripped something out of her with all the bullying, and she simply doesn't believe anyone will want to be with her and thus doesn't hold herself high enough to 'expect' respect from them. So they don't give it. This will be with her her whole life. Because of one girl. Forgiving doesn't mean fixing.


----------



## turnera

dragonfly92 said:


> Honestly this is surprising to me. This is the very person that treated her below a human (worse than those other individuals I was cruel to), that destroyed her life, had no empathy for her at the time, the ringleader of all the incidents. I deserved what I got from her mother. Shouldn't she been feeling happy I got what I deserved? My mother would have reacted the same too. In fact, she still called her mother and their argument over the phone got bad.


I'm really proud of you for reaching out to people. You have no idea how much that means to them.

As for cousin, try reading some psychology books. Like I described with my DD, once the bullying starts, layers of that person are stripped away. The layers that tell them that they're 'as good as.' She can kiss up to you because in her mind, she will never be as valuable as anyone else, even YOU. Especially you. Why do you think she asked you what it felt like? Because she'll never be able to be the person who doesn't care more for everyone else's feelings above her own. It's alien to her.

So, like my daughter, she will always be the one at the bottom, reaching up to everyone else for favors. Giving forgiveness. Being nice. Hoping for something.


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## Hopeful Cynic

dragonfly92 said:


> Honestly this is surprising to me. This is the very person that treated her below a human (worse than those other individuals I was cruel to), that destroyed her life, had no empathy for her at the time, the ringleader of all the incidents. I deserved what I got from her mother. Shouldn't she been feeling happy I got what I deserved? My mother would have reacted the same too. In fact, she still called her mother and their argument over the phone got bad.


It's no surprise at all. She doesn't want to see people hurting, for any reason, while you aren't bothered by it and even feel it can be justified. She learned empathy, and you didn't.


----------



## Mr. Nail

I thought a beat down might have been in the works. This is certainly a multi generational thing.


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## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> Honestly this is surprising to me. This is the very person that treated her below a human (worse than those other individuals I was cruel to), that destroyed her life, had no empathy for her at the time, the ringleader of all the incidents. I deserved what I got from her mother. Shouldn't she been feeling happy I got what I deserved? My mother would have reacted the same too. In fact, she still called her mother and their argument over the phone got bad.


In reality, you did not destroy her life. You made her high school years hell. She clearly had a lot of paid to deal with because of your abusing her and worse. But she is clearly a survivor.

You really just need to leave that family alone. You have now creating problems between her and her mother.


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## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> I've just finished reading your post. Thank you for sharing your story and so sorry that happened to you. This might probably not help too much but you can *keep telling yourself that you never deserved what they did to you, you were never the problem and it's them that were horrible people. *


While what happened back then was wrong and hurtful, I have always known that I did not deserve to be treated like that and that they were horrible people. Clearly the adult teachers who participated hold far more responsibility for what they did.

I just have no desire at all to socialize on Facebook with my abusive classmates who now pretend like it never happened.


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## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> My mother came to visit me shortly afterwards and obviously freaked out upon seeing my swollen face and busted lips. She nearly wanted to call the cops. I told her no. She's upset at what her mother did.
> Honestly, I don't blame Dorothy's mother.
> 
> I must state that was the first time I ever got hit.


Where was your mother all those years ago that she allowed you to behave like this? I have no doubt that she knew on some level what you were doing. When a person bullies like you did, it's usually not limited to just one part of their life. They usually bully at different levels in most situations with other people.


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## sandcastle

dragonfly92 said:


> I'm ok and honestly deserved it all. I don't blame her at all.


Great!

You were/are that MEAN GIRL and obviously only regret cause you got straight up BUSTED.

The stripes on that tiger-


Why are you still posting? Any attention good attention?


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## Diana7

turnera said:


> Pffft. I would have done the same thing. Maybe not pulled the hair, but slap? You bet. You changed the ENTIRE COURSE of that poor woman's life (her daughter). She's like the mother of a star football player who gets paralyzed by a drunk driver; the entire course of her daughter's life was diverted.
> 
> Whatever she would have become is GONE because of the trauma and shame and humiliation you laughingly heaped on her for your own benefit.
> 
> You may not bully anymore, but she is stuck with toxic shame and an unrealized life. MAYBE with years of therapy, she may come out the other side a halfway happy person.
> 
> But all of that was not necessary, not without your presence. YOU did this.
> 
> And the forgiving stuff? So what? She may forgive, but she'll never have the life she could have realized. My DD27 was put into a new school district in 7th grade. She made friends with a Mean Girl like you. Who at first was nice - until DD27 started getting more popular than her. She ruined my daughter's life for the next 5 years, in a dozen different ways. Most especially, the one girl DD WANTED to be best friends with was the best friend of the Mean Girl. That poor girl was SO wrapped around the bully's finger that she would have pushed someone into the street in front of a car had that girl told her to. Every time she'd get closer to my daughter, Mean Girl would do something else to DD. She even hired a limo for Prom to try to pry away the kids who were going to go to Prom with DD (in the limo I paid for, trying to get their friends to hang out with DD at the party), leaving DD all alone with her date and one other couple.
> 
> To this day, my daughter, who's gorgeous, smart, engaged to an amazing guy, the only one of all the kids to get a Master's degree and a real career, has one weakness - friends. It literally has the ability to ruin her, her need for people to like her and want to hang out with her. She'll do anything for them, just to get them to hang out with her, because that Mean Girl ripped something out of her with all the bullying, and she simply doesn't believe anyone will want to be with her and thus doesn't hold herself high enough to 'expect' respect from them. So they don't give it. This will be with her her whole life. Because of one girl. Forgiving doesn't mean fixing.


I would have been angry but I would never have used violence. This was a serious attack and she could have been arrested and charged. 
Forgiving means that you are open to the healing process. You will never heal if you hold on to anger and bitterness.


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## Diana7

dragonfly92 said:


> I've just finished reading your post. Thank you for sharing your story and so sorry that happened to you. This might probably not help too much but you can keep telling yourself that you never deserved what they did to you, you were never the problem and it's them that were horrible people.
> 
> I woke up earlier this morning and I've been reaching out to a couple others on fb I was cruel and mean to back then. There are two of them I can't find and the other random girl we kicked out I don't know her name (we didn't have her on any of our classes).
> 
> There is a message from Dorothy thanking me for the meeting and that talking to me, letting it all out feels like therapy for her. Once again she apologized for her mother's actions and spoke to her mother about it.
> 
> Honestly this is surprising to me. This is the very person that treated her below a human (worse than those other individuals I was cruel to), that destroyed her life, had no empathy for her at the time, the ringleader of all the incidents. I deserved what I got from her mother. Shouldn't she been feeling happy I got what I deserved? My mother would have reacted the same too. In fact, she still called her mother and their argument over the phone got bad.


She sounds like a sensible mature lady. Not everyone thinks that violence is the answer to everything,and she clearly doesn't. I would have been appalled if my mum had committed serious assault like that over me. Especially if I was well into my 20's, but thankfully she wasn't violent either. 
You really haven't ruined her whole life, yes you made her life terrible for a few years but she is only 25 and is clearly dealing with it well and sensibly. You meeting is clearly helping her, so as long as she wants that contact them keep it. You can answer any more questions that she has and it will be therapeutic for her and will help her to be able to move on and have a good life.


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## sandcastle

Diana7 said:


> I would have been angry but I would never have used violence. This was a serious attack and she could have been arrested and charged.


Diana-

I get you confused with the poster Pollyanna-

While your seemingly core values sound good-

Something just does not gel-


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## Diana7

sandcastle said:


> Diana-
> 
> I get you confused with the poster Pollyanna-
> 
> While your seemingly core values sound good-
> 
> Something just does not gel-


Thats ok.:smile2:

What doesn't gel? I am happy to answer.


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## sandcastle

No Bother


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## SA2017

dragonfly92 said:


> I was engaged for 4 months until last week. I've been eating nothing but junk food.
> 
> My fiance's female cousin showed him her diary and an old recorder I had no idea she had, of us calling her a loser, the W word and a bunch of other things in HS (we did other stuff too). Though there was no footage, my voice was heard the most. I was the main ringleader back then. I'm now 25.
> 
> Prior to that, I knew who she was when my fiance mentioned that she was going to stop by for a couple weeks. She doesn't have fb. I really thought I could just start all over with her so I pretended not to remember her (even invited her to a girl's hang out with my friends but she declined it; I also gave her a chocolate box when meeting her again but found out she gave it to someone else). She wouldn't let it go and kept mentioning a couple times about if I remembered her when we were alone in private or sarcastically saying at the dining table in front of everyone ''It's so interesting that we never met before''.
> 
> I admitted that I lost my cool after too much of that and in private when she tried again to make a sarcastic comment, I said ''Leave me alone already. Go away. What proof you got anyways Dorka''. I reverted back to calling her by her old HS nickname Dorka since her name is Dorothy. I was pissed off at that moment.
> 
> I wanted to take it all back but it was too late. She showed it the following day. My fiance says he needs time to think about all this.
> 
> Update as of today:
> I received a message from her on my fb (apparently she just created a fb act) that she just wants to talk and if I can meet her. I set it up for Saturday. Not sure if there is any point at this moment. My fiance just broke off the engagement an hour ago. Help.
> 
> Any suggestions would be helpful.



my ONLY advice for you:

APOLOGIZE and ask for her forgiveness. don't try to downplay the bullying you did to her. as you can see she is still hurt. 

Confess, apologize, ask for forgiveness and move on. explain, you was young and a fool. listen to her what she has to say. take her feelings serious. good luck.


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## dragonfly92

WilliamM said:


> I wish there was some way to make you realize just how this statement shows you have not changed since your High School days.
> 
> If you had really changed you would have yearned to apologize the very first time an opportunity presented itself, with a truly heartfelt apology. You would be grateful for the opportunity to publicly acknowledge and apologize for your past evil if your victim showed an interest in a public apology.
> 
> That is what you would have done if you were actually no longer a bully.
> 
> The fact you do not understand this shows you have not changed.


Thank you for pointing this out. I took some time rereading some of my posts and yes, I had been selfish. I had been thinking too much about blocking/running away from my past, disregarding how those affected by my bullying (Dorothy being the most affected) felt at that moment. I should have immediately apologized the very first moment I saw her. 



sandcastle said:


> Great!
> 
> You were/are that MEAN GIRL and obviously only regret cause you got straight up BUSTED.
> 
> The stripes on that tiger-
> 
> 
> Why are you still posting? Any attention good attention?


I realize some of you and Sandcastle might still be thinking I'm just sorry for getting caught or that I'm trying to just win back my ex fiance but really that's not the case. I'm not trying to win back my ex fiance. I've been respecting his wishes of not contacting him in any manner. 
During our meeting, I had a more deeper understanding of what she was feeling at that moment. I felt her pain.


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## phillybeffandswiss

EleGirl said:


> Where was your mother all those years ago that she allowed you to behave like this? I have no doubt that she knew on some level what you were doing. When a person bullies like you did, it's usually not limited to just one part of their life. They usually bully at different levels in most situations with other people.


Sorry, I've gotta disagree 100%. Just looking at her words, contrition and acceptance I can see her fooling her parents. I knew a few people who eventually ended up being bullies or were stopped and corrected before it hit this level. I am never shocked at a bully's ability to fool, lie and fit the situation available.


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## dragonfly92

SA2017 said:


> my ONLY advice for you:
> 
> APOLOGIZE and ask for her forgiveness. don't try to downplay the bullying you did to her. as you can see she is still hurt.


I've already done it. I lost track of how many times I've apologized.


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## dragonfly92

EleGirl said:


> You have now creating problems between her and her mother.


That was my mother (she called her) arguing on the phone with her mother. 
My mother called her again (I told her not to but she still did) and was very upset. She kept saying ''I hope you and your daughter are happy for ruining my daughter's dreams'' and then said ''ever attack my daughter again and we're going rounds''. Once again their argument got bad.

Once it was over, my mother said I had some blame but only 50%. She agree I should have apologized immediately but then said ''Still, no one talks to you in that manner nor hits you'' and stated she would have still argued even if it was me totally in the wrong. I disagree. I was totally in the wrong and deserved everything I got but she doesn't see it that way. 



EleGirl said:


> Where was your mother all those years ago that she allowed you to behave like this? I have no doubt that she knew on some level what you were doing. When a person bullies like you did, it's usually not limited to just one part of their life. They usually bully at different levels in most situations with other people.


At the time (when my father was alive), she had no idea about what we would do. It was easy to sneak bfs in the house once my parents stepped out, sneak out when they were sleeping or lie about my whereabouts. My friends were my alibis.


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## sidney2718

Diana7 said:


> What her mother did was very wrong, violence never solves anything. I can totally understand your mums horror.


True, but some people who have been bullied have had permanent psychological damage. And some have even killed themselves.

Can you imagine a mother having a daughter who comes home crying from school every day? Yes, violence is wrong. Bullying is worse.


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## dragonfly92

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, I've gotta disagree 100%. Just looking at her words, contrition and acceptance I can see her fooling her parents. I knew a few people who eventually ended up being bullies or were stopped and corrected before it hit this level. I am never shocked at a bully's ability to fool, lie and fit the situation available.


I have to agree with your statement. At the time, it was easy lying to my parents. My father died never knowing about my bullying nor the times I would sneak bfs in the house.

My mother only found out about this recently after my ex fiance broke off the engagement.



sidney2718 said:


> True, but some people who have been bullied have had permanent psychological damage. And some have even killed themselves.
> 
> Can you imagine a mother having a daughter who comes home crying from school every day? Yes, violence is wrong. Bullying is worse.


I agree. I'll never forget that look of anger and pain in her face. The lady's eyes were puffy from crying.


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## phillybeffandswiss

dragonfly92 said:


> *stated she would have still argued even if it was me totally in the wrong.*


This right here explains more than you know. Your mom was right in that you should have never been hit, but her lack of empathy and your absolute protection, no matter what, is a doorway into why you may have become a bully.


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## sokillme

phillybeffandswiss said:


> This right here explains more than you know. Your mom was right in that you should have never been hit, but her lack of empathy and your absolute protection, no matter what, is a doorway into why you may have become a bully.


100% Spoiled little narcissists are usually children of parents who think they can do no wrong. Those parents do their kids no favors in the long run. 

I would like to point out we are now in Jerry Springer territory. I don't think this bodes well for a future wedding.


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## turnera

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, I've gotta disagree 100%. Just looking at her words, contrition and acceptance I can see her fooling her parents. I knew a few people who eventually ended up being bullies or were stopped and corrected before it hit this level. I am never shocked at a bully's ability to fool, lie and fit the situation available.


We always called them Eddie Haskells. It was our code word when we ran across someone we knew was playing the adults.

OP, I think you are maturing and growing and changing. I truly admire you for coming here. Many people with your background come here and expect to be patted on the back and cherished and pumped up. And when they aren't, when they get called out, they lash out. You've done nothing but be honest with us, open to thinking and learning. I have high hopes for you.


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## EleGirl

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry, I've gotta disagree 100%. Just looking at her words, contrition and acceptance I can see her fooling her parents. I knew a few people who eventually ended up being bullies or were stopped and corrected before it hit this level. I am never shocked at a bully's ability to fool, lie and fit the situation available.


In light of the above response, @dragonfly92, have you told your mother the full extent of your harassing, bullying and assault/battery that you subjected Dorothy to in high school?


----------



## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> That was my mother (she called her) arguing on the phone with her mother.
> 
> My mother called her again (I told her not to but she still did) and was very upset. She kept saying ''I hope you and your daughter are happy for ruining my daughter's dreams'' and then said ''ever attack my daughter again and we're going rounds''. Once again their argument got bad.


LOL.. your mother does not care that you bullied Dorothy. All she cares about is your "dreams". 

And just like Dorothy's mothers, she's willing to start a physical fight.

I can see why you were/are a bully... 



dragonfly92 said:


> Once it was over, my mother said I had some blame but only 50%. She agree I should have apologized immediately but then said ''Still, no one talks to you in that manner nor hits you'' and stated she would have still argued even if it was me totally in the wrong. I disagree. I was totally in the wrong and deserved everything I got but she doesn't see it that way.
> 
> At the time (when my father was alive), she had no idea about what we would do. It was easy to sneak bfs in the house once my parents stepped out, sneak out when they were sleeping or lie about my whereabouts. My friends were my alibis.


Your mother is wrong. You do not have 50% blame. You have 100% blame.

See, Dorothy's mother feels the same way about Dorothy as your mother does about you. The different is that Dorothy was/is innocent. You are not and your mother does not care about that.


----------



## Diana7

sidney2718 said:


> True, but some people who have been bullied have had permanent psychological damage. And some have even killed themselves.
> 
> Can you imagine a mother having a daughter who comes home crying from school every day? Yes, violence is wrong. Bullying is worse.


This isnt about what is worse, its the fact that a woman presumably in her 40's or 50's thought it was ok to seriously assault another lady. Being that she apparently knew nothing about the bulling until this last episode, its seems that her daughter didn't come home crying at all, but hid it.


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## Diana7

dragonfly92 said:


> That was my mother (she called her) arguing on the phone with her mother.
> My mother called her again (I told her not to but she still did) and was very upset. She kept saying ''I hope you and your daughter are happy for ruining my daughter's dreams'' and then said ''ever attack my daughter again and we're going rounds''. Once again their argument got bad.
> 
> Once it was over, my mother said I had some blame but only 50%. She agree I should have apologized immediately but then said ''Still, no one talks to you in that manner nor hits you'' and stated she would have still argued even if it was me totally in the wrong. I disagree. I was totally in the wrong and deserved everything I got but she doesn't see it that way.
> 
> At the time (when my father was alive), she had no idea about what we would do. It was easy to sneak bfs in the house once my parents stepped out, sneak out when they were sleeping or lie about my whereabouts. My friends were my alibis.


 Its a mothers job to stand up for her children, and while you are totally responsible for the bullying, along with those who did it with you, you are not responsible for being beaten till you lips split and your face was battered and bruised 7 years later. That was an arrestable offense and she is fortunate that the police weren't called by you or a member of the public who saw what happened. 
You are condoning the sort of bad behaviour that you yourself did.


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## turnera

Which never would have happened had she not done what she did.


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## Magnesium

Diana7 said:


> I believe that there is forgiveness and restoration for past mistakes. It seems that most people here never did anything wrong in their past. :surprise:
> With repentance there can be a fresh start. if a person isn't admitting what they did, or denying it or making excuses then ok, but that's not the case here.
> I sense true sorrow for her actions and she has taken all the horrible things said to her and not tried to defend herself. She has been very honest here with all that she has done.
> 
> I cant stand it when someone does something terrible and will never apologise, but when they do I am all for forgiving and letting it go. Its good for them and good for us. Its very unhealthy to hang onto bitterness and hurt and anger in our lives. On a desire for vengance and harm to the other person.


I absolutely believe in repentance and forgiveness, but I do NOT agree that forgiving someone means that they deserve a place in my life.


----------



## Primrose

Diana7 said:


> So you dont think that if a person has done something wrong in their past they can have another chance? You dont think they can ever be forgiven if they are repentant?


Forgiveness does not have to equal reconciliation. Her ex-fiance does not owe her a second chance once he learned the extent of her bullying and harassment of someone who is obviously very dear to him. 

I've seen you repeatedly comment how there is no excuse for cheating and you would not tolerate it in a marriage. You would cut your losses and move on. 

How is this any different? Your line in the sand is cheating. Ex-fiance's is bullying. He can accept her apology but still decide he cannot pursue a future with her. 



EleGirl said:


> Where was your mother all those years ago that she allowed you to behave like this? I have no doubt that she knew on some level what you were doing. *When a person bullies like you did, it's usually not limited to just one part of their life. They usually bully at different levels in most situations with other people.*


It is my opinion that, once her ex-fiance realized what she had done to his cousin, her personality became much more clear to him. He had probably noticed her tendency to bully in other areas of her life but could never quite put a finger on it. I have a feeling that this was his "ah-ha" moment that made him realize that the OP is not the woman for him after all.


----------



## dragonfly92

I just got off the phone talking to Dorothy. I think this marks more than 10 times I've apologized to her (I totally lost track by now), to which she replied ''Thank you (my name), I already forgave you'' and then added ''You ain't that bad after all''. She just uploaded her picture on fb. Though she asked about all those new features because fb is all new to her so I helped her. Seconds later, she send a friend request so I added her. 
While we were talking, I noticed we have a couple things in common:
- We're both an only child
- Our mothers are very protective (at times my mother also calls me her baby)
- Just like her parents' marriage, when my father was alive, my parents had a happy, stable marriage and rarely ever argued
- High GPA's in school and college



EleGirl said:


> In light of the above response, @dragonfly92, have you told your mother the full extent of your harassing, bullying and assault/battery that you subjected Dorothy to in high school?


She knows but just now was upset that we were talking. Immediately after we finished talking, she went on a rant saying ''and you're still talking to that stupid girl that ruined engagement, your dreams, your happiness...... forget those stupid people''. 
Needless to say I was very shocked. My own mother just called her and her (and my ex fiance's family) stupid. I told her not to say that word and she insisted '' Well I would have had my first grandchild soon''. 

Her reply towards my bullying was along the lines ''well yes it was wrong but you were just a teen, kids do stupid things''. She then briefly told me about an early account I had no recollection of and till this day don't. She said ''you were too young to remember it''. I got curious and asked about it. She said it happened the day before my 5th b-day. It was about my very first friend (a playmate who I would often play with) getting run over by a van and dying in my face. I spend a couple weeks crying, waking up and screaming out his name in the middle of the night and both my parents were trying to explain me in a better way what just happened and even change the topic. Eventually I forgot about it, it was never talked about ever again, I made new friends but from then on, wasn't that emotionally anymore and wouldn't cry if I fell down very hard. 

I'm speechless and shocked at all I've just heard; the name calling and this early event I had no idea about.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

I hope your mother is not posting her rants on your FB wall for the world to see. If so delete it.

Tell your mother to butt out, that her rantings are not helpful and actually counterproductive. Also remind her that your having children is on your schedule with the person you approve, not hers and to leave that schedule and future partner well enough alone. 

Put your foot down on that, she sounds a bit meddlesome. Remind her that you value her advice but only if she does not act like a petulant child.


----------



## sokillme

dragonfly92 said:


> I just got off the phone talking to Dorothy. I think this marks more than 10 times I've apologized to her (I totally lost track by now), to which she replied ''Thank you (my name), I already forgave you'' and then added ''You ain't that bad after all''. She just uploaded her picture on fb. Though she asked about all those new features because fb is all new to her so I helped her. Seconds later, she send a friend request so I added her.
> While we were talking, I noticed we have a couple things in common:
> - We're both an only child
> - Our mothers are very protective (at times my mother also calls me her baby)
> - Just like her parents' marriage, when my father was alive, my parents had a happy, stable marriage and rarely ever argued
> - High GPA's in school and college
> 
> She knows but just now was upset that we were talking. Immediately after we finished talking, she went on a rant saying ''and you're still talking to that stupid girl that ruined engagement, your dreams, your happiness...... forget those stupid people''.
> Needless to say I was very shocked. My own mother just called her and her (and my ex fiance's family) stupid. I told her not to say that word and she insisted '' Well I would have had my first grandchild soon''.
> 
> Her reply towards my bullying was along the lines ''well yes it was wrong but you were just a teen, kids do stupid things''. She then briefly told me about an early account I had no recollection of and till this day don't. She said ''you were too young to remember it''. I got curious and asked about it. She said it happened the day before my 5th b-day. It was about my very first friend (a playmate who I would often play with) getting run over by a van and dying in my face. I spend a couple weeks crying, waking up and screaming out his name in the middle of the night and both my parents were trying to explain me in a better way what just happened and even change the topic. Eventually I forgot about it, it was never talked about ever again, I made new friends but from then on, wasn't that emotionally anymore and wouldn't cry if I fell down very hard.
> 
> I'm speechless and shocked at all I've just heard; the name calling and this early event I had no idea about.


Sounds like your Mom has contributed to some issues you have. Time to get some IC.


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## turnera

dragonfly92 said:


> Needless to say I was very shocked. My own mother just called her and her (and my ex fiance's family) stupid. I told her not to say that word and she insisted '' Well I would have had my first grandchild soon''.


Gee what a surprise. Your mother is an entitled, selfish, self-absorbed biotch (no offense). 

This wasn't about hurting her baby. It was about HER losing HER dream of grandkids she could brag about.

No wonder you grew up like you did. It's all you knew. 

You oughta ask your mom if she was a bully, too.

And, for your own personal growth, I suggest having a talk with your mom some day about how you DID turn out, how you're now learning how harmful it was, and how you're now on a path toward grace. Maybe she could learn from you.

fwiw, I had a Mean Girl stepmother. When we finally had a baby, she jumped at the chance to watch her for us. It wasn't until years later that we discovered that she'd take our daughter to her church, parade her around (for her own benefit), and then dump her in a daycare so she could continue to spend the rest of her time doing what made HER happy. You may want to watch out for that.

ETA: you are correct in assuming that your early trauma at losing your friend - and especially how your parents handled it - TAUGHT you to be an automaton. Make sure you tell your IC about it.


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## sandcastle

Maybe everyone can join hands and sing Kumbaya in the trailer park . 
Single or double wide?

Pabst on tap!


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## wilson

dragonfly92 said:


> I just got off the phone talking to Dorothy. I think this marks more than 10 times I've apologized to her (I totally lost track by now), to which she replied ''Thank you (my name), I already forgave you'' and then added ''You ain't that bad after all''. She just uploaded her picture on fb. Though she asked about all those new features because fb is all new to her so I helped her. Seconds later, she send a friend request so I added her.


Assuming this really happened, I don't think it's healthy for her to be friends with you. She needs to put this behind her, not be friends with her tormentor. There's no healthy reason for you to be in her life in any sort of social aspect. You can be there for her to get closure, but that should be it.

It's common for victims of abuse to irrationally keep going back to their attackers. That's a sign that they still feel dependent, seeking validation, or still have some other unhealthy issue. You need to keep your distance and allow her to be confident on her own.

And even if it can be argued that it's good for you to be her friend, the rest of her friends and family are going to wonder WTF is she doing being friends with you. She'll have to live with the disapproval of those around her if she continues to interact with you.


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## sandcastle

wilson said:


> Assuming this really happened, I don't think it's healthy for her to be friends with you. She needs to put this behind her, not be friends with her tormentor. There's no healthy reason for you to be in her life in any sort of social aspect. You can be there for her to get closure, but that should be it.
> 
> It's common for victims of abuse to irrationally keep going back to their attackers. That's a sign that they still feel dependent, seeking validation, or still have some other unhealthy issue.


Oh ,for the love of God-

Dork busted Mean Girl. 

End of story.

Not only is OP a bully- she is a LIAR.

You honestly think Dork has to what?

Yep! Let's victim blame here.
Awesome.


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## wilson

sandcastle said:


> Oh ,for the love of God-
> 
> Dork busted Mean Girl.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Not only is OP a bully- she is a LIAR.
> 
> You honestly think Dork has to what?
> 
> Yep! Let's victim blame here.
> Awesome.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. I'm not victim blaming. But if Dorothy is trying to be friends with the OP, that's not a healthy relationship. Even if she wants to be friends, that doesn't make it healthy. Likely there is still some approval seeking or dependency involved.


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## sandcastle

wilson said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this. I'm not victim blaming. But if Dorothy is trying to be friends with the OP, that's not a healthy relationship. Even if she wants to be friends, that doesn't make it healthy. Likely there is still some approval seeking or dependency involved.


DORKY is not trying to "be friends with her tormentor."

K?

She flat out exposed the ***** and her cousin- the fiancé of OP - proceeded to dump said *****.

Dispense with the physco babble gobbledygook .


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## Diana7

Magnesium said:


> I absolutely believe in repentance and forgiveness, but I do NOT agree that forgiving someone means that they deserve a place in my life.


Forgiveness and reconciliation are two different things, yes.


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## toblerone

Sounds like this guy got away but you got time to fix yourself and find someone else in the future.

Looks like your Mom isn't all that great an influence on your life, either.


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## Diana7

wilson said:


> Assuming this really happened, I don't think it's healthy for her to be friends with you. She needs to put this behind her, not be friends with her tormentor. There's no healthy reason for you to be in her life in any sort of social aspect. You can be there for her to get closure, but that should be it.
> 
> It's common for victims of abuse to irrationally keep going back to their attackers. That's a sign that they still feel dependent, seeking validation, or still have some other unhealthy issue. You need to keep your distance and allow her to be confident on her own.
> 
> And even if it can be argued that it's good for you to be her friend, the rest of her friends and family are going to wonder WTF is she doing being friends with you. She'll have to live with the disapproval of those around her if she continues to interact with you.


As a mature adult Dorothy is quite capable of being friends with who she likes. It may be helping her to be able to talk like this and I think she is showing great maturity. 

OP don't keep on and on saying sorry, you have said it multiple times now, she said she has forgiven you.


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## Diana7

turnera said:


> Which never would have happened had she not done what she did.


Two wrongs don't make a right.


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## turnera

No, sometimes they do. My guess is that OP has learned a LOT more in the last day than she has in the last year. As she said, she has never been hit before. SHE has never suffered before. She has never had to FACE the results of her actions. Now she has. I daresay a busted lip and a bruise will go a long way toward reminding her why she is now on a course toward redemption.


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## turnera

sandcastle said:


> DORKY is not trying to "be friends with her tormentor."
> 
> K?
> 
> She flat out exposed the ***** and her cousin- the fiancé of OP - proceeded to dump said *****.
> 
> Dispense with the physco babble gobbledygook .


Uh, the cousin sought her out. The cousin joined FB to be near her. The cousin friended her on FB. The cousin continues to contact her.


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## Plan 9 from OS

dragonfly92 said:


> I just got off the phone talking to Dorothy. I think this marks more than 10 times I've apologized to her (I totally lost track by now), to which she replied ''Thank you (my name), I already forgave you'' and then added ''You ain't that bad after all''. She just uploaded her picture on fb. Though she asked about all those new features because fb is all new to her so I helped her. Seconds later, she send a friend request so I added her.
> While we were talking, I noticed we have a couple things in common:
> - We're both an only child
> - Our mothers are very protective (at times my mother also calls me her baby)
> - Just like her parents' marriage, when my father was alive, my parents had a happy, stable marriage and rarely ever argued
> - High GPA's in school and college
> 
> She knows but just now was upset that we were talking. Immediately after we finished talking, she went on a rant saying ''and you're still talking to that stupid girl that ruined engagement, your dreams, your happiness...... forget those stupid people''.
> Needless to say I was very shocked. My own mother just called her and her (and my ex fiance's family) stupid. I told her not to say that word and she insisted '' Well I would have had my first grandchild soon''.
> 
> *Her reply towards my bullying was along the lines ''well yes it was wrong but you were just a teen, kids do stupid things''.* She then briefly told me about an early account I had no recollection of and till this day don't. She said ''you were too young to remember it''. I got curious and asked about it. She said it happened the day before my 5th b-day. It was about my very first friend (a playmate who I would often play with) getting run over by a van and dying in my face. I spend a couple weeks crying, waking up and screaming out his name in the middle of the night and both my parents were trying to explain me in a better way what just happened and even change the topic. Eventually I forgot about it, it was never talked about ever again, I made new friends but from then on, wasn't that emotionally anymore and wouldn't cry if I fell down very hard.
> 
> I'm speechless and shocked at all I've just heard; the name calling and this early event I had no idea about.


Never underestimate the power of parents to minimize the actions of their children because, you know...looking like bad parents if they admit the failings of their children...


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## Plan 9 from OS

I read this whole thread. Honestly wished I haven't, because it really doesn't apply to me TBH. Whoever made the movie reference - spot on because this thread does not look legit to me. But that's just me.

Assuming this is a real situation, OP actually had the opportunity to have her day of reckoning on this specific instance. At least compared to her earlier thread comments, I think she may have grown a little from this experience. In time, the OP may even be able to patch up her relationship with the fiance, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. IMHO, up until the day the marriage actually happens, this is an interview process. Yeah yeah, love and romance and blah blah blah. At the end of the day, romance is fleeting and that "love at first sight" garbage does not last forever. Instinctively, we know this based on evolution as members of societies (as opposed to our base instincts). In the end, marital love is better explained as that sense of deep friendship that is built upon love, communication, honesty and respect. 

Simply put...you failed the interview process. You didn't measure up. Learn from your mistakes and move on. IMHO, once Dorothy gets her closure - bug out. Explain to her first why, but you need to finish helping Dorothy sort it all out and then...Leave your ex and that family alone. JMHO.


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## Rubix Cubed

Diana7 said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right.


 That's called *CONSEQUENCES*.


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## dragonfly92

turnera said:


> You oughta ask your mom if she was a bully, too.


I got curious and believe she was. She claims not to remember too much because it's been so long since school ended but did mentioned this one incident with a girl named Sarah:

Sarah had the longest hair in the class and always came with a French Braid. Sarah and my mom were top students but one day she got a higher grade on a math exam. My mom got upset so she and her best friend (while the teacher stepped out of class for a bit) cut more than half of her braid. They knew she loved her long hair.

My mom's own words ''I got her good that day''.


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## turnera

That's terrifying.


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## Malaise

dragonfly92 said:


> I got curious and believe she was. She claims not to remember too much because it's been so long since school ended but did mentioned this one incident with a girl named Sarah:
> 
> Sarah had the longest hair in the class and always came with a French Braid. Sarah and my mom were top students but one day she got a higher grade on a math exam. My mom got upset so she and her best friend (while the teacher stepped out of class for a bit) cut more than half of her braid. They knew she loved her long hair.
> 
> My mom's own words ''I got her good that day''.


Wow


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## EleGirl

dragonfly92 said:


> I got curious and believe she was. She claims not to remember too much because it's been so long since school ended but did mentioned this one incident with a girl named Sarah:
> 
> Sarah had the longest hair in the class and always came with a French Braid. Sarah and my mom were top students but one day she got a higher grade on a math exam. My mom got upset so she and her best friend (while the teacher stepped out of class for a bit) cut more than half of her braid. They knew she loved her long hair.
> 
> My mom's own words ''I got her good that day''.


Assault and battery. I'm not surprised.


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## Diana7

Rubix Cubed said:


> That's called *CONSEQUENCES*.


No its called breaking the law.


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## turnera

Only if someone presses charges. News flash: Before the last 75 or so years, hardly anyone in the past 50,000 years of society ever got punished for an altercation between two people, at least one that didn't go beyond slapping a person. It's called interactions and yes, sometimes they get messy. It's how people work things out. But nobody was scarred for life. Unlike the OP's victims.


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## Rubix Cubed

Diana7 said:


> No its called breaking the law.


There is no debate that she broke the law, but legal or illegal does not change the fact that they are still consequences. Consequences are just like the Honey Badger, they don't give a ****.


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## dragonfly92

sandcastle said:


> She flat out exposed the ***** and her cousin- the fiancé of OP - proceeded to dump said *****.
> Dispense with the physco babble gobbledygook .


She did and I deserved everything I had coming for being so cruel to a very sweet person. I don't blame her not even once. Everything was 100% my fault. 

Honestly, I'm amazed that after all I did to her (both in HS and that disgusting name I called her), she still reached out to speak to me. I still can't believe she forgave me after all that and said I'm not that bad. Not that bad?? I've been horrible. I didn't deserve to even be on her fb. I thought she wouldn't ever forgive me. I'm still surprised.

As for the others I've reached on fb, it was mostly a couple ''Thank you'' replies and then there was an ''I don't know who you are''.


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## BlueWoman

What you did was cruel. You were cruel when you were in high school, and you were cruel now when you pretended not to know her. I promise you that she still carries the scars from your bullying and for you to pretend it didn’t happen was a slap in the face. You may have grown and changed, but not enough to have a healthy relationship with someone. Your ex was right to break up with you. Your best bet is to apologize to her and then move on. It’s not likely she will believe your apology nor will your ex. As you move on, take responsibility for your actions. Pretending something didn’t happen doesn’t actually change what happened. Particularly for the person who got hurt. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

Rubix Cubed said:


> There is no debate that she broke the law, but legal or illegal does not change the fact that they are still consequences. Consequences are just like the Honey Badger, they don't give a ****.


So you are ok with violence? With people taking the law into their own hands and beating people up? What she did is no better than what the OP did.


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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> So you are ok with violence? With people taking the law into their own hands and beating people up? What she did is no better than what the OP did.


You probably ought to drop this since the OP is a troll and was just yanking your chain.


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## Faithful Wife

EleGirl said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are ok with violence? With people taking the law into their own hands and beating people up? What she did is no better than what the OP did.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably ought to drop this since the OP is a troll and was just yanking your chain.
Click to expand...

Just too juicy to be true.


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## Diana7

EleGirl said:


> You probably ought to drop this since the OP is a troll and was just yanking your chain.


So after all these posts you have decided she is a troll???


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## Satya

As a mod, I think @EleGirl gets a glimpse into posters' credentials that we are not privy to. So she doesn't throw around the word troll lightly. She likely has evidence.


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## Mizzbak




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## Diana7

Yes I am a mod on a very busy Christian forum, but why has it taken 231 posts to find this out, if she is indeed a troll?


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## Blondilocks

Investigations take time and the mods here have lives.


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## Diana7

Blondilocks said:


> Investigations take time and the mods here have lives.




I am aware of that because as I said I am also a mod and have been for 11 years.


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## thefam

Diana7 said:


> I am aware of that because as I said I am also a mod and have been for 11 years.


Hi Diana. I tried to pm you to ask you about the Christian website you moderate. I don't know if you have purposefully shut off private message but if not are you able to pm me the site? I've been looking for a good Christian one on marriage.


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## sokillme

Diana7 said:


> Yes I am a mod on a very busy Christian forum, but why has it taken 231 posts to find this out, if she is indeed a troll?


You didn't have any suspicions when she basically quoted a plot from a movie? I just assume about half the stuff I read on this board are from trolls. Then I post and don't worry about it. Someone may be in a similar situation and get something out of the post who know.


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## sandcastle

Diana7 said:


> Yes I am a mod on a very busy Christian forum, but why has it taken 231 posts to find this out, if she is indeed a troll?


So- between you moderating a "verybusyChristian forum, posting away here and god knows how many other forums- 
How do you maintain your perfect second marriage and all that entails.

I knew you did not gel.


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## Amplexor

Diana7 said:


> I am aware of that because as I said I am also a mod and have been for 11 years.


Then you should understand why. Thread locked.


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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> So after all these posts you have decided she is a troll???


No, mods don't just decide that someone is a troll. We do research and find evidence to prove that they are a troll (or sock puppet). It takes take to do that. And until someone can be proven to be a troll, they are given the benefit of the doubt.


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## EleGirl

Diana7 said:


> I am aware of that because as I said I am also a mod and have been for 11 years.


Then you should know why it is that with some trolls it's no immediately obvious that the person is a troll.


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## EleGirl

Amplexor said:


> Then you should understand why. Thread locked.



Amp, thinks for locking this. I should have, but got called by a customer before I got to this.


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