# Wife in ongoing affair - Learn from my fail



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

I was originally logged in as another profile. One of my failures was to be transparent to my wife in hopes that she would begin to trust me, so she get onto the forum and read all my posts, including some about what I was going to do. Fail.

I've changed names. Here's my story, as laid out by my posts. D-Day was July 24th, at 8am.

July 25, 9:30am. I find TAM:



hh said:


> I can't believe how much this hurts.
> 
> My wife of 22 years told me yesterday that she is having an affair with someone who is also married. We have 8 children and are not in a position where we could split, it would be financially ruinous. While I love her, she has told me in the past that if she could leave she would.
> 
> ...


Two weeks later, I posted this:



hh said:


> I appreciate all the advice, folks, and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one going through all this. My solution isn't one that is going to make many of you happy but it's the only one I can live with. I won't punish the children by kicking her out and I won't leave the children myself, so we are both staying in the house. We are working on building a stronger relationship as parents and even friends. For the moment, she is continuing her relationship. I'm not happy about it but she's not a prisoner and adultery isn't illegal, so unless I'm willing to break up us as parents there's not much I can do about it except rise above it.
> 
> There's a lot more going on in my life over the last 2 weeks than even I imagined - the crisis that came over me when she told me of the affair changed my life in ways I could never have imagined. I have begun a spiritual journey that I hope is going to take me to a place where I will be a better man. She is amazed at the change in me and, although a little concerned about where it's coming from, she has become much more open with me and me with her. I'm hoping that the affair is an infatuation that eventually runs out of steam. If it isn't, then we'll deal with the consequences. I'm prepared to accept whatever happens, whether it's reconciliation, or we end up in a married partnership where we find some fullfillment outside of the marriage, or, if necessary, if we separate. However, with 8 children she will always be a part of my life and I will not use the children as pawns. So yes, she's a cake eater. And I am enabling this. It's possible she's using me and will leave me as soon as the OM can extricate himself from his marriage. But I choose to accept my fate, work on being the best father, partner and, if I am allowed, husband I can be.


On September 30th, I posted this:


hh said:


> I'm 2 months from D-Day. My wife continues the affair, wants me to live with her with no intimacy of any kind for the children while she spends time with the man she loves.
> 
> The anti-depressants have finally started working. Good thig, too. Because I was very close to taking my own life 2 or 3 times in the last couple of weeks.
> 
> ...


And this:


hh said:


> I'm living with my wife who is actively carrying on a sexual relationship with another man. And no, I haven't been checked for STDs - I don't have to because she immediately stopped having sex with me when she started with him. It went on 7 months before I knew - I'm 2 months out from D-Day.
> 
> Don't let it get to this point. It's killing me. We're staying together in the house "for the kids" and I'm stuck. I should have told her to leave the day she told me.
> 
> Tell her to stop contacting this man completely or to leave the house. Or end up like me - suicidal, on anti-depressants and stuck.



After finding help and support through a Psychiatrist, a Therapist and finding out that the "secret" I was keeping was common knowledge BEFORE I knew, and having my friends reach out to me once they realized I knew, I was able to post this:



hh said:


> LoveCloud - I'm afraid that I have to agree with a lot of people here. I'm in a situation that has some parallels with yours, but there are differences too.
> 
> When I first read about the 180 I thought it was about getting her back, and I treated it as such. Massive failure.
> 
> ...


The secret to my turn around is Radical Acceptance through both DBT therapy and Buddhist/Taoist teachings, which I was already interested in (but never really clear on until this happened). Realizing that thoughts like "This is a nightmare. I wish I could wake up" and "It's shouldn't be like this" are self-defeating, resulting in being mired in self-loathing, self-delusion and self-doubt. Get through the crisis with strategies of mindfulness, distraction, Self-soothing. 

DON'T look to your spouse for support - even if they seem willing to give it, their attention is focused elsewhere. Want an example? Every time I would sit down and talk with my wife about my feelings, about how I hoped that some day we'd be able to get past this...that damn secret phone would go off as the OM would text. He made sure he texted her at those times he thought I might have time to talk to her. And even when my wife and I would go for a walk to talk, she would check whenever that damn phone would ding. It's an addiction. 

Of course, the anti-depressants help. We all need help, and reaching out for help was the first step in my road to acceptance. Do NOT attempt to handle this on your own. It's too much. You can't be available for your kids if you are mired in anxiety and depression.


Accept that reality is. There is no shoulda, woulda, coulda.
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is self-inflicted.
Accept that you CANNOT save, protect or fix your spouse. 
Conquer yourself, not the world -- Rene Descartes

I misunderstood the 180. I tried to do a 180, but didn't actually believe it, and when my wife reacted with anger at my "passive-aggressive behavior", I immediately melted and she had control again.

So what is happening now? Once I accepted that my marriage was over, and that we had to find a way to tell the family, and I started seriously investigating legal separation, she got angry again. Days of intense anger at my "passive-aggressive" behavior. Suspicion that I was trying to "screw" her. She told her father what was going on and is demanding that I let him see all the financials. She pushed every button she could think of. "There's no chance EVER of reconciliation". "I don't even LIKE you, you're not someone I could ever live with again". "The affair is all your fault". "The affair is the best thing to ever happen to me".

Those buttons aren't connected any more. No reconciliation? Yes, that's probably true. You don't like me? Well, for the first time in years, I like myself and I no longer need your approval. I don't take any responsibility for your feelings or behavior. I take responsibility for the 50% of the dysfunctional marriage, but 0% of the affair. Financial transparency? Sure, I don't have anything to hide. I'm not the best at paying bills, I sometimes had to pay late charges and I was embarrassed about it. But it's a failing of mine that I can work on. It's not something I really need to hide. 

As they say, the truth will set you free.

We went to joint counseling to work out how and when to tell the children last weekend. When I first set it up, weeks ago, I had this idea that the therapist would tell her she's crazy and she needs to stop the affair, and everything would be OK. That's delusional. So I went in with an agenda. We would talk about moving forward. Instead, she starts crying and talking about how I made her married life miserable. She's trying to justify the affair. I won't engage with her, I redirect us back to what we wanted to talk about. 

Suddenly, her whole attitude has turned around. She is asking me for things, instead of demanding. She's said "thank you" to me more times in the last 3 days than in the last 3 weeks combined. She's starting to tell me how torn she feels.

Does this mean it's time to reconcile? Hell no. As long as she's still in the affair, I'm moving forward. This isn't a game, it's reality. I need to disengage, and I'm doing so.

This weekend, another joint session. I've already decided - if she starts trying to talk about the marriage, I'll decline to participate. The session is to finish our "script" for what to tell the kids, and to come to some agreements on how to proceed to legal separation, and to see if we can come up with a plan for "bird-nesting". And if she wants to talk about the marriage, there is one simple message. As long as she is involved in the affair, I have no interest in talking about our marriage. I'm in individual counseling to deal with my feelings about the marriage. I'm getting the help I need to move on.

I'm lucky in a few ways. I have incontrovertible proof of the affair, I know what is happening and when. This is a no-fault state, so no judge will care that she's having an affair, so snooping won't do anything but make me crazy. The OM's neighbors, who found out about the affair before I did, are good friends of mine who have offered me support, caring, and a bed if I ever just need to get out of the house. They also offered to sit around and talk smack about the OM and my wife, but I asked them not to - it's not really helpful. But it's nice to have someone tell you that it's not your fault, and that you are a good person.

So learn from my fail. Begging, pleading, secrecy, neediness, attempts to save your spouse from themself - none of it will ever do anything except drive you crazy. You don't have to be a **** about it - I'm being very nice to my wife. But I will no longer allow her to control me, and I'm not letting her set the agenda.

--
I used to be h-u-r-t-h-u-s-b. Not any more. I'm in control of my own life now.


----------



## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

I wish you the best of things for the rest of your life. Hopefully the worst is past you.

Good luck


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> So learn from my fail. Begging, pleading, secrecy, neediness, attempts to save your spouse from themself - none of it will ever do anything except drive you crazy. You don't have to be a **** about it - I'm being very nice to my wife. But I will no longer allow her to control me, and I'm not letting her set the agenda.


So, so true. It's great that you're where you are. I wish you nothing but the very best.


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

You're going to do fine in your new life, RA-with or without her. The funny thing is, while you're working on improving yourself and making yourself a better man, not only for a future relationship but also for your kids, SHE will probably be trying to find new, lamer and lamer things to tell what few friends she has left about how you're "screwing her over". Eventually, they're all going to get pretty damn sick and tired of hearing her "woe is me" BS!


----------



## ren (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks for sharing, it is inspiring to read how you overcame such a terrible thing being done to you and have transformed yourself into a better man. It takes incredible courage and strength to stand back up and face down the horrors this world inflicts. Your children are lucky to have you as a father. Stay awesome!


----------



## elph (Apr 2, 2011)

F-102 said:


> You're going to do fine in your new life, RA-with or without her. The funny thing is, while you're working on improving yourself and making yourself a better man, not only for a future relationship but also for your kids, SHE will probably be trying to find new, lamer and lamer things to tell what few friends she has left about how you're "screwing her over". Eventually, they're all going to get pretty damn sick and tired of hearing her "woe is me" BS!


THIS!!!


i have found out that my wifes coworkers are so tired of her drama. everybody used to like my wife. she was one of the most helpful, nicest people around. nobody wouldve ever imagined that she would do what she did. esp. since everybody knew me and my son.
the caveat is that nobody liked the OM before, they all hate him even more now...

my wifes only saving grace is to go into her store with me in hand and denounce everything she did and call the OM the biggest mistake of her life.

maybe one day


----------



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

What I find a little troubling is that you state that you're 100+ pounds overweight. You have sleep apnea, you're probably hypertensive, your cholesterol probably looks like hell and your lipids and triglycerides probably isn't much better. You might be a boardline diabetic and you suffer from ED. If any of this is true, then more than half (if not all) is because of all that extra weight you're carrying around. You need to loose that weight for SEVERAL reasons.

1. You are about 5 years away from a major cardiac event.

2. You have 8 kids that are depending on you to be their dad and to be around for their grandkids, or to walk your daughters down the aisle.

3. Losing the weight and living a healthier lifestyle may cut or eliminate you having to take certain medications you may currently be taking right now.

Look, I'm not ( nor ever will be) on the cover of Men Health and Fitness Magazine. However, losing all that weight will also help your self esteem. If you look good, you'll feel good! Not to mention, people will notice the positive changes that you are making and that's an AWESOME ego boost.

You don't have to be a gym rat working out 4 or 5 hours a day 6 days a week. All you have to do is 30 to 45 minutes a day.....that's it! I'm sure you can do some kind of physical activity for 30 minutes out of your 24 hour day. Giving yourself a good hard 30-45 minute workout will help reduce your stress levels. Work off some of your frustrations. Just taking a brisk walk for 30 minutes will help you burn off a lot of calories because you are heavier than most. 

Don't be embarrassed to join a gym. There are a bunch of heavy people out in the world and at least you're there DOING something about it! No one will EVER give you a hard time about it! You can get yourself a personal trainer. They're not cheap, but they're not God aweful expensive either. They can help you achieve your goals.

The hardest part is changing your diet. If you're a beer drinker, stop! If you want an alcoholic drink, switch to a red wine. If you pick up a package and look at the ingredients and they read like a science experiment; probably not good to put into your body. Eat a LOT more fruits and vegtables. If you want a snack, don't grab a small bag of chips, make yourself some shredded carrots with a teaspoon of low fat ranch dressing. Point is, if you do a hard 30 minute cardiac workout and then you eat a whopper, you did absolutely nothing. 

Once you've achieved your goal of loosing 100 pounds, do yourself a favor and borrow one of your friends girlfriends or wives that has a fashion sense and ask her to go shopping with you for a new wardrobe. Sort of a man makeover. NO WOMAN WILL EVER SAY NO TO SHOPPING! She'll take personal pride in making you look good. You'd be kind of like a big Ken doll for her.

You loose 100 pounds, and a good set of threads with a fashionable haircut and groomed to the nines, your WW will notice you and she'll notice other women noticing you!!


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

I left a major piece out of my summary. I started a major diet and exercise regime in January.. ironically just as the affair started.

I've lost 75 pounds. The sleep apnea is almost gone. Glucose went from 131 to 80. I think the ED is better, although I have no opportunity to find out.

I'm running 3 miles 2-3 times a week. Neck down 1.5 inches. Waist down 5 inches. 

I feel great. People keep telling me how great i look.

Pretty ironic. I was doing it for my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Reap the whirlwind, bro!


----------



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> I left a major piece out of my summary. I started a major diet and exercise regime in January.. ironically just as the affair started.
> 
> I've lost 75 pounds. The sleep apnea is almost gone. Glucose went from 131 to 80. I think the ED is better, although I have no opportunity to find out.
> 
> ...


LOL!!! THAT IS AWESOME DUDE!!!! Congrats! Make sure you hit your goal! And don't stop!!!! Has the WW notice the difference?


----------



## Onedery (Sep 22, 2011)

You wife is the biggest load of extra weight you need to lose. Once you are rid of that, everything else will fall in place.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

What a complete turn around, and for that, I'm happy for you. When you posted this last August 9, I thought you were going to be one of those lost causes:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28974-wife-just-told-me-shes-having-affair-4.html#post393859



hurthusb said:


> I appreciate all the advice, folks, and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one going through all this. My solution isn't one that is going to make many of you happy but it's the only one I can live with. I won't punish the children by kicking her out and I won't leave the children myself, so we are both staying in the house. We are working on building a stronger relationship as parents and even friends. For the moment, she is continuing her relationship. I'm not happy about it but she's not a prisoner and adultery isn't illegal, so unless I'm willing to break up us as parents there's not much I can do about it except rise above it.
> 
> There's a lot more going on in my life over the last 2 weeks than even I imagined - the crisis that came over me when she told me of the affair changed my life in ways I could never have imagined. I have begun a spiritual journey that I hope is going to take me to a place where I will be a better man. She is amazed at the change in me and, although a little concerned about where it's coming from, she has become much more open with me and me with her. I'm hoping that the affair is an infatuation that eventually runs out of steam. If it isn't, then we'll deal with the consequences. I'm prepared to accept whatever happens, whether it's reconciliation, or we end up in a married partnership where we find some fullfillment outside of the marriage, or, if necessary, if we separate. However, with 8 children she will always be a part of my life and I will not use the children as pawns. So yes, she's a cake eater. And I am enabling this. It's possible she's using me and will leave me as soon as the OM can extricate himself from his marriage. *But I choose to accept my fate*, work on being the best father, partner and, if I am allowed, husband I can be.


You're one of those cases where you didn't have to do any investigating because your WW is pretty much open about the affair and rubbing it in your face. There's a few other ongoing situations like yours here in the forum. 

You've learned to let her go and realized that the old marriage is dead. If in the future, you make it to R, that the marriage will be a completely new one. That for R to even be possible, the affair has to be completely over, she has to be remorseful and transparent. 

Now you know it's time for her to feel the reality of the situation. In the fog, she thought things can continue the way they are, that she can continue to cake eat by having the security of marriage while she continues to get her pleasure with the OM. 

Were you able to expose the A to the OMW so you can bring pressure on the A from the other end?


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

I know that OMW knows because that's how my friends found out before I did. OM's son told everyone he could about the affair at the neighborhood block party on July 4th (not knowing who the woman was) and OMW started dropping hints to various neighbors. It became a treasure hunt - find out who the woman was! My friends were driving their daughter to a sports camp with another neighborhood girl and the girls started comparing notes. The daughter knew that they had met at the New Years Eve party at their (my friends') house. And the other girl had the crucial piece of information - the woman had more than 5 kids.

There was only one woman with more than 5 kids at the New Years Eve party. My friends were horrified, they had been treating it like a game and suddenly realized it was my wife.

They spent 2 month agonizing over whether to tell me. Meantime, I was going through my own private hell trying to keep it a secret. 

Anyway, OMW and his family all know. She knows who I am and how to contact me, but has chosen not to do so. They are living in the same house, in separate bedrooms, just as we are. She is moving on with her life, preparing for the separation.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

What I do not understand is why both betrayed spouses are not making the cheat spouses life he'll on a daily basis. What they are doing is so beyond acceptable that it seems insane that they are being let get away with it.

They are humiliating their families and children. I would personally be doing my best to disrupt their daily lives.mi would be following them every time they left the house. I would cut them off from every dime the family had. I would bring over other family and out them in their precense on a daily basis.

The reaction by both BS seems way to passive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

OMG, you got the 8 kids some how. Unless you can put together a better reason, then she doesn't like sex with me. She sure as heck did at some point. If that's the way it really is, you need DNA testing on those kids.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> What I do not understand is why both betrayed spouses are not making the cheat spouses life he'll on a daily basis. What they are doing is so beyond acceptable that it seems insane that they are being let get away with it.
> 
> They are humiliating their families and children. I would personally be doing my best to disrupt their daily lives.mi would be following them every time they left the house. I would cut them off from every dime the family had. I would bring over other family and out them in their precense on a daily basis.
> 
> ...


We all have to wake up in the morning and look at ourselves in the mirror. Some of the advice I got here on TAM was very valuable. Some didn't work for me.

You want to be a ****? That's your business. I choose a different path.

And you know what? There may be an update to this story very soon. My wife came to me this morning with a question....

To be continued.......


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> OMG, you got the 8 kids some how. Unless you can put together a better reason, then she doesn't like sex with me. She sure as heck did at some point. If that's the way it really is, you need DNA testing on those kids.


Troll.

The kids weren't accidents. And sex has two purposes. If you want something bad enough, you can do something distasteful. And she wanted kids. A lot of kids.

I didn't want kids. But I wanted sex. And I wanted to be married.

So it's dysfunctional, no doubt. But it worked, for a while.


----------



## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> I left a major piece out of my summary. I started a major diet and exercise regime in January.. ironically just as the affair started.
> 
> I've lost 75 pounds. The sleep apnea is almost gone. Glucose went from 131 to 80. I think the ED is better, although I have no opportunity to find out.
> 
> ...


RadicallyAccepting,

I think its more important than many people realize that you also begin to add in a muscle building regimine, if you are not already. It doesn't have to be complex, or very time consuming, either. The kind of lifestyle that normally leads up to your pervious condition also drastically accelerates sarcopenia, the muscle wasting that occurs with aging. You will feel incredible when your core muscle groups are in shape, and it has been shown to increase your testosterone levels. In addition, you will increase your resting metabolism with extra muscle.

Hope it helps.


----------



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

NO FAIR!!! Leaving us hanging with a question your wife asked you......


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> They are humiliating their families and children.


Oh, and one other thing, Shaggy. Nobody can humiliate you. Humiliation is a reaction, a feeling brought on by thoughts. Suffering is a reaction. 

My wife is having an affair. She claims she is in love with this man, and not with me. She alternately told me she still cared for me and blamed me for forcing her to have an affair. I sat around, railed at the unfairness of it, considered suicide, martyred myself, begged, cried, thought about threatening the OM, thought about humiliating my wife.

Not one of those things helped me. 

Pain and hurt are inevitable in life. Suffering, humiliation, depression, anxiety - all very normal, but all self-inflicted. If you see reality, accept that reality is, then your mind is free to make the decisions that work best FOR YOU. Once I got past the feelings of humiliation, and suffering, and depression, and worry, and anxiety, I was able to see what was the right thing to do FOR ME.

So I got help. Medication and crisis therapy to get me through the first few weeks. Talk therapy to help me find new ways of handling the emotional toll, and also to solve the problems that caused me to be in such a dysfunctional marriage in the first place. So I am preparing to separate from my wife. I'm preparing for the financial toll it will take on me and finding ways to minimize the emotional toll it will take on my children. And I'm in a better mental and emotional state than I have been in many years...possibly ever.

And you know what's pretty ironic?

My wife has noticed. She's noticed that I'm a much stronger man than she ever knew. She's noticed that I'm a good husband, father and provider. And she's noticed that a lot of the things that got in my way, my mental and emotional baggage that created so many of my problems, are dropping away as I face them and overcome them.

The last few days she has stayed home. The last few days have been the least tension filled, most civil days we have had in years. I'm not doing anything different, but suddenly she's being very different.

And this morning she asked me what I wanted to do. When I told her I'm moving forward with legal separation, she asked me what I would do if she ended the relationship.

I told her we would talk about that after she ended the relationship. Until then, I'm comfortable with what I'm doing. The door is open - a crack. But it won't be open for long.

Just because I'm not a **** doesn't mean I'm weak. Or passive.

You do what makes you able to live with yourself. I'll do what makes me feel like I'm a strong man and a good father.

I hope you can be happy with your decisions. I know I'm happy with mine.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Halien said:


> RadicallyAccepting,
> 
> I think its more important than many people realize that you also begin to add in a muscle building regimine, if you are not already. It doesn't have to be complex, or very time consuming, either. The kind of lifestyle that normally leads up to your pervious condition also drastically accelerates sarcopenia, the muscle wasting that occurs with aging. You will feel incredible when your core muscle groups are in shape, and it has been shown to increase your testosterone levels. In addition, you will increase your resting metabolism with extra muscle.
> 
> Hope it helps.


Thanks. You are correct, I have done some strength training. I'm pretty bad about it, though, and I need to get better.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Rad, I have followed you story since you first posted, and I'm happy you have started acting in response to your wife's hurtful selfish choices. In fact, it's you moving that seems to have gotten her attention well done. I have no interest in dumping on you, your posts seem to have been filled with excuses on why you were taking no action and putting up with her. Finally you are acting, again well done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

She's noticed the changes in you, she likes what she sees, and is now starting to hint towards a R.

Guess she ain't as "in love" with the OM as she was a few days ago...


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

But here's the lesson. I tried and failed at a "180" because it was an attempt to get her back. She hit me with both angry barrels and I melted.

When I really turned around and started following my own path, she did it again - both barrels. it got REALLY bad when I didn't react to her button pushing. She said some things to me I just couldn't believe. But since I had already made up my mind, I didn't melt.

And that's when her attitude started to change.

Don't fake it. Accept that the marriage is over and start preparing for it.

Sometimes the marriage is over. And you are prepared and are making the decisions, rather than allowing them to be made for you.

And sometimes she'll come out of the fog. And then the first question you have to answer is...

Do you want her back? Because maybe you won't.

But it's your decision now.


----------



## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> But here's the lesson. I tried and failed at a "180" because it was an attempt to get her back. She hit me with both angry barrels and I melted.
> 
> When I really turned around and started following my own path, she did it again - both barrels. it got REALLY bad when I didn't react to her button pushing. She said some things to me I just couldn't believe. But since I had already made up my mind, I didn't melt.
> 
> ...


:iagree:'

My stbxw is slowly coming out the fog. It is dreadful. It seems like the less I give a **** what she is doing the closer she wants to get. Maybe it is because she can see that I am no longer on the hook.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> But here's the lesson. I tried and failed at a "180" *because it was an attempt to get her back.*


As I've told others many, many times, *the 180 degrees rules are NOT a manipulation tool* to get your cheating spouse to end his/her affair and commit to doing the hard work of marital recovery. *They are an emotional empowerment tool* for the betrayed spouse so that he/she can become strong enough to move on with his/her life with or without his/her cheating spouse.

What you are seeing from your unfaithful wife is a side effect to your emotional empowerment. As you have gotten emotionally stronger, she is coming to the realization that she can no longer rely on you as her back up man when her affair ends - which it will. Your quiet actions are telling her quite loudly *I DON"T NEED YOU. I WILL THRIVE WITHOUT YOU. COUNT ON IT.* A very sobering fact she will have to learn to live with.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

morituri said:


> As I've told others many, many times, *the 180 degrees rules are NOT a manipulation tool* to get your cheating spouse to end his/her affair and commit to doing the hard work of marital recovery. *They are an emotional empowerment tool* for the betrayed spouse so that he/she can become strong enough to move on with his/her life with or without his/her cheating spouse.
> 
> What you are seeing from your unfaithful wife is a side effect to your emotional empowerment. As you have gotten emotionally stronger, she is coming to the realization that she can no longer rely on you as her back up man when her affair ends - which it will. Your quiet actions are telling her quite loudly *I DON"T NEED YOU. I WILL THRIVE WITHOUT YOU. COUNT ON IT.* A very sobering fact she will have to learn to live with.




:iagree::iagree::smthumbup::iagree:

And keep on telling it Morituri , being strong in the face of adversity is always the best path. Thank God OP finally figured it out.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

I figured it out....but none of us are perfect. I backslid this weekend. My wife had a moment of emotional honesty - she wanted to know if I was still there for her. I took that emotional honesty as a signal she was ready to R, and I jumped the gun. When she didn't meet my expectations, I fell apart again.

Again, learn from my fail. Don't jump the gun. It wasn't a false R, it was just a moment and I took it too far. Keep moving forward unless she actually runs to catch up. And be prepared if she doesn't.

Need to find my center again...I'll get there after a bad night.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

RA, right now your enemy is your wishful thinking that she can change back to the woman you once knew and loved. That woman, if she ever existed, is gone and *in its place is a woman no man should ever want to be with.* 

You must assume the worst from her, continue to act accordingly, and pay attention only to her actions and not her words which carry zero value.

Besides the 180 degrees rules, No More Mr Nice Guy, download a copy of it, print it out and read it ad nauseum. Lastly I would like you to read the following which has some very excellent points that which can help you to become emotionally stronger.



marduk said:


> I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.
> 
> A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.
> 
> ...


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

morituri said:


> RA, right now your enemy is your wishful thinking that she can change back to the woman you once knew and loved. That woman, if she ever existed, is gone and *in its place is a woman no man should ever want to be with.*
> 
> You must assume the worst from her, continue to act accordingly, and pay attention only to her actions and not her words which carry zero value.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> I figured it out....but none of us are perfect. I backslid this weekend. My wife had a moment of emotional honesty - she wanted to know if I was still there for her. I took that emotional honesty as a signal she was ready to R, and I jumped the gun. When she didn't meet my expectations, I fell apart again.
> 
> Again, learn from my fail. Don't jump the gun. It wasn't a false R, it was just a moment and I took it too far. Keep moving forward unless she actually runs to catch up. And be prepared if she doesn't.
> 
> Need to find my center again...I'll get there after a bad night.












You're biting at every little bait she throws out. She knows she still has you on the line and can reel you in at ANY TIME. You're jumping at any chance. You're just going to end up in FALSE R.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

No, it was honest. She really was wavering.

My problem is that I jumped at it and set expectations that weren't met.

The end result is a major blow up this morning and I have packed and will not be returning tonight. I can't live in that toxic atmosphere. I told her I won't be a part of her affair anymore.

She told me to think of the children. I said that she should have thought of the children before she had the affair. She blames me for everything. 

So it's make or break time. She will either harden up, in which case I'll be divorced soon. Or she'll relent, in which case the hard work begins.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You should return home.

However she should leave. She is the one in the affair. She has broken the trust and the family. She should get out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

What is your goal as far as custody of the children? If you leave, the court may consider that as abandonment and it may make any efforts for shared custody extremely difficult to obtain. Think first before you act.


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> I left a major piece out of my summary. I started a major diet and exercise regime in January.. ironically just as the affair started.
> 
> I've lost 75 pounds. The sleep apnea is almost gone. Glucose went from 131 to 80. I think the ED is better, although I have no opportunity to find out.
> 
> ...



Thats i so FANTASTIC man:smthumbup::smthumbup:

really happy for you


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

I think the best thing is that can do is continue working on your self
and move on with the separation agreement.And improve helth and skills, for your self and your kids.Be polite to your WW (Just because she aint very nice to you dosent mean you have to behave like an ass )and be the best you can be.If she comes around,and there is some love left, you can always rethink your position.But if she dosent come´s around,there are other fish int the pond..


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm going back tonight. She said she's going to call the police, but that's an empty threat - she told me it would be traumatic for the kids, so she's still using the kids to blackmail me.

I'm going back home, and I am not going to stand still. I can't kick her out, but I can simply be strong, and I'm going to keep moving. As long as she's in the affair, I'l be moving toward legal separation or dissolution. If she stops the affair, then we can talk about moving toward R. 

No more sitting around waiting.


----------



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Call the police? for what? It's your house! But if you stayed away, she'd be calling you for EVERY LITTLE HIC-UP THAT HAPPENS IN THE HOUSE! 

GO back home, you left a toxic consersation and removed yourself from it before it elevated into something more. At least, that's how the cops would view it. You've done nothing wrong.


----------



## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Take a VAR with you and carry it all times.

If she does call the police and they try force you out remind them this is your only home and she is welcome to leave without the children. If they force you to leave insist on a written report from them as you intend to make it legal. 

Be on your finest behaviour at all times and do not concede your right of access to the police.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm home, and I'm not worried. The police threat was another attempt to blackmail me with the kid's anxieties.

I've laid it out. I'm starting separation proceedings. She has some time to get to IC and work out what she wants to do. If she makes a decision, fine. I'm prepared for divorce or, with a lot of work, reconciliation. But if I get to a point in my own therapy where I'm ready to move on, the door is closed and I will file the divorce papers. I told her I doubt very much I'll get all the way to the new year without filing.

The date was intentional. She met the OM on New Year's Eve.

She spent a few hours emailing and calling me railing at me about how deceitful and malicious I was. Last time I talked to her she was crying.

She'll be home at 10:30. I've already told her I'm going nowhere, she doesn't have to talk to me but if she wants to we can talk about anything except: The marriage, reconciliation, or the relationship. Those topics must wait until she ends the affair. Otherwise, we can talk and I won't argue with her - we talk, or I walk away.

Feeling like I have my balance back. Feeling that Radical Acceptance again. This time, I'm not letting her knock me off track.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> I'm home, and I'm not worried. The police threat was another attempt to blackmail me with the kid's anxieties.
> 
> I've laid it out. I'm starting separation proceedings. She has some time to get to IC and work out what she wants to do. If she makes a decision, fine. I'm prepared for divorce or, with a lot of work, reconciliation. But if I get to a point in my own therapy where I'm ready to move on, the door is closed and I will file the divorce papers. I told her I doubt very much I'll get all the way to the new year without filing.
> 
> ...


Sorry for all the agony she has put you thruogh but it is great to see how strong you have become. It can't hurt to have developed rational boundaries for the present and any future relationships. There is something to be said about going through the fire. When you first started on TAM it looked like you were never going to be able to make it.

Unfortunately, by the time your wife figures out what an uncaring, selfish fool she has been there is a really good chance you will no longer be able to tolerate even being around her.

It definitely happened to me many years ago. You get over what they did but it is never the same and you can't really even tell its happening. It just dawns on you that you don't care anymore. More like indifference.

Good luck,

Chap


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks, Chap. 

Yeah, I was a mess when I first logged on at DDay+1.

I doubt I'll ever get to the point where I can't tolerate her. She's both a fascinating and beautiful person - when she's not projecting her problems onto me, that is.

But I'm prepared. She has told me many times in the past that she wants a divorce - always knowing I was too weak to follow through.

Note that in all the nasty things she has said to me in the last few days, she hasn't told me to go ahead and file the papers.

That says a lot.


----------



## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Onedery said:


> You wife is the biggest load of extra weight you need to lose. Once you are rid of that, everything else will fall in place.


So true. Your wife is one big cancerous tumor that needs to be excised.
Nice going on all you have done. You will be fine without this woman.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> She spent a few hours emailing and calling me railing at me about how deceitful and malicious I was.


Before DDay, statements like this from WS's would amaze me. Now, having gone through it myself and reading hundreds of stories about the crazy statements that WS's make, nothing surprises me anymore. It's all part of the cheating script. The blameshifting, the rationalizing, and the accusations of malice, even though they were the ones lying. They seem to almost literally go insane when they're in the fog. All logical thought processes seem to go right out the window.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She spent a few hours emailing and calling me railing at me about how deceitful and malicious I was. Last time I talked to her she was crying.



What I don't understand is, when a wayward spouse says something like this (it happens a lot) it seems like the BS never says something like:

'You think its ok to be an adulterer, nothing you say means anything to me, everything you say is a lie. Look what you have done to yourself to be able to do this to your family. What do you care what I think anyway?"

Sorry, just venting.


----------



## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Just tell her:

"What you think of me is none of my business."


----------



## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> No, it was honest. She really was wavering.
> 
> My problem is that I jumped at it and set expectations that weren't met.


This is a mistake many including myself have made.

The thing is, you NEVER jump on any opportunities. It's their job to convince you they want to R and you have to be very reluctant. They are not going to give up just because you don't appear to be interested, it will actually make them try harder. Never make it easy for them to come back.



> She spent a few hours emailing and calling me railing at me about how deceitful and malicious I was.


Tell her she's right, you are a horrible husband and you are doing HER a favor by divorcing her so she can now go find someone better. Nothing takes the wind out of their sails like agreeing with them, even if they are 100% wrong.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

ArmyofJuan said:


> RadicallyAccepting said:
> 
> 
> > She spent a few hours emailing and calling me railing at me about how deceitful and malicious I was.
> ...


Couldn't agree more. When I discovered my wife's betrayal via a video file of her and the OM having sex, I informed her I was filing for divorce. She got on her hands and knees crying hysterically begging me not to do it. The reality of the coming divorce back slapped her very hard.



> RadicallyAccepting said:
> 
> 
> > She spent a few hours emailing and calling me railing at me about how deceitful and malicious I was.
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> They seem to almost literally go insane when they're in the fog. All logical thought processes seem to go right out the window.


Almost?

Definitely.

I can't believe what I'm hearing. But my therapist is right - treat her like she's a heroin addict. The correct script:

I love you.
I care about you.
You are engaged in a destructive behavior.
I cannot change you or get you to stop on my own.
But I also cannot condone nor enable the behavior.
So while I love you, I need to take care of myself and the rest of my family.
It's your choice. Stop the behavior and get the help you need to never go back to it, or lose me and the rest of your family.

And expect that in most cases, the addict will choose the drug. You have to be ready to follow through on the consequences. Not threats - just consequences.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

F-102 said:


> Just tell her:
> 
> "What you think of me is none of my business."


I actually kind of like this one.

Maybe

"What you think of me has no effect on me as long as you are involved with someone else."


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

ArmyofJuan said:


> This is a mistake many including myself have made.
> 
> The thing is, you NEVER jump on any opportunities. It's their job to convince you they want to R and you have to be very reluctant. They are not going to give up just because you don't appear to be interested, it will actually make them try harder. Never make it easy for them to come back.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

You are correct. It's taken me some time to come around.

Meeting with Lawyer on Friday. Found out the lawyer she was supposedly hiring 3 weeks ago doesn't exist. She talked to a friend for a few minutes, she wasn't ready to retain a lawyer and start paperwork.

Her problem is, I am.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BTW who is the primary caregiver, you or her? If it's you then she knows she will be in deep sh!t if the court orders her to pay child support for the baseball size team brood the two of you have.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

We are very good parents, even partners. 

We're just not very good spouses.

She keeps things organized, takes care of handling the schools and teachers, creates a nice physical environment in our home, cleans, does much of the yard work, manages the day care, and she sets the expectations for child rearing which are very strong and I follow willingly. I cook, shop, do the dishes, take care of home maintenance, manage older kids homework and I'm the main emotional support for the kids. I get up in the middle of the night 90% of the time because she gets very tired and sleeps very soundly. 

A lot of people think I'm the main parent because the kids run to me when they need something, but it is honestly shared. As much as we are totally dysfunctional in so many ways, we are REALLY good as parents. The kids are great. Not perfect, but other parents are constantly telling us how wonderful our children are, which definitely feels good.

We've already agreed on shared parenting, and we're both committed to staying in our community so the kids stay in the same schools with the same friends - we're actually trying to bird-nest so the kids can keep the house. It will take a lot of sacrifice but as of now we're both willing to do it. But we'll have to see. 

Hopefully it won't be an issue. I still would prefer to reconcile. But I'm ready to divorce.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

No she isn't a good parent. A good parent teaches their children right from wrong through their actions, and how to love and be true. She has failed at all of those.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Shaggy - 

The woman I'm living with now, which I'm prepared to divorce, is a sick woman. She is living in a state divorced from reality. 

However, if you are going to make disparaging remarks about the mother of my children, the one I was married to for 22 years, the one who has helped me raise 8 wonderful children, I will have to ask you to step outside and defend her honor.

Hate the addiction. Love the addict. But don't confuse love with enabling and supporting the behavior. I am fully prepared to divorce her, to save myself and my children from her behavior. But it doesn't change the fact that she is their mother, and outside of this problem she has right now she is a very good mother.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Except, she's not addicted. She is a person who made a concscious choice to betray you and her family. She sat you down and told you she was going to cheat right in front of you without regard for your love. That's not addiction, that is a cold hearted attack on you.

Ok, I'm otta here. Good luck, your gonna need it. Be careful she doesn't get knocked up by her lover and have you raise that one too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Yes, she made a choice.

But she's also a sick woman. And she will either decide to get the help she needs and end the affair, or I will divorce her. 

I won't be part of her affair any more. But she will always be a part of my life, since she is my children's mother, and that counts for something. 

I'm not really angry any more. I pity her. But I've had addicts in my life before, and I've learned that you can only do one thing with an addict - tell them to get help or get out. Period, and it can't be an empty threat.

I'm seeing a lawyer on Friday.


----------



## aeg512 (Mar 22, 2011)

I have seen statements like this "she is a very good mother" too many times on these forums. To me it is BS. You have eight children, do you really believe that they are going to come out of this without scars? Growing up in todays world as a teenager is hard enough as it is, what about those coming from a broken home where the mother has done what you WW has done. She is showing your children you do what you want to do regardless of the consequences. How many of your eight will make it to adulthood without a severe scar? Would a "good mother" do that to her children? I do know of families that have broken up where cheating was not the reason, in those, you did not have a lot of lying taking place. The children come out much better than the families where you have cheating and lying.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Scars? Of course. All children have scars. These will be big ones.

It doesn't change the fact that we have raised some wonderful children and a big part of that was the work she did. The kids are strong, with a great sense of self, because we worked together so well to raise them.

Look, my mother became an alcoholic when I was 14. It led to my father's affairs and their divorce.

Does that make her a bad mother? No. She was a good mother, who had her problems. Do I have scars? Absolutely. My overeating is a direct result of what she taught me.

But she loved me and she did her best. And I love her for it, especially for the fact that I understand that she is human and has human failings.

Nothing wrong with acknowledging both the good and the bad in people.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Acknowledging good and bad in people is a good thing. I would probably agree that your wife has been a good mother. Up until now.

That's also a possibility. A good mother can stop being a good mother when her actions are deleterious to her children.

Saying that a woman is a good mother, although she leaves the house at all hours to meet up with her lover, causing her children great embarrassment and psychological anguish reminds me of the old joke, "Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Actually, we've worked out a schedule. The times she's out are marked 'Mom out' because the kids don't know about the affair.

And don't start telling me to expose it to the kids. They'll find out when they need to. There's no reason to expose them to that right now. They know we're having problems, and they know I want to stay married but she doesn't.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh, and I get my time out too, which I NEVER took before. I'm going to friends houses, seeing movies, browsing the library - all things I never took the time to do. 

Interestingly, they've gone from 3-4 times per week, stealing an hour or two whenever they could, to 1 time per week max - and this week, they're not seeing each other at all. 

Interesting.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> Actually, we've worked out a schedule. The times she's out are marked 'Mom out' because the kids don't know about the affair.
> 
> And don't start telling me to expose it to the kids. They'll find out when they need to. There's no reason to expose them to that right now. They know we're having problems, and they know I want to stay married but she doesn't.


I agree with sheltering them as much as possible. But, you shouldn't underestimate your kids. Your older ones may already know, or suspect, what your wife is up to. And, if you divorce, they won't have to be brilliant to figure out where your wife found her new boyfriend 10 minutes after things were final.

Just be ready to explain more than you hope you'll have to.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

The older kids stopped asking where mom was a few weeks ago. She wants to delay telling them, and she wants to soft pedal it. 

I'm not worried about it. The truth always comes out in the end. I don't intend to use them against her, so there's no rush.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

RA, don't be surprised that your stbxww will tell the kids that it is your fault that the two of you are getting a divorced (this happens frequently, especially with female cheaters). If this happens, what are you going to do?


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm not worried. She's been telling the kids for years that everything's my fault. Funny thing is that they still all come to me for support and comfort.


----------



## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

RadicallyAccepting said:


> We've already agreed on shared parenting, and we're both committed to staying in our community so the kids stay in the same schools with the same friends - we're actually trying to bird-nest so the kids can keep the house. It will take a lot of sacrifice but as of now we're both willing to do it. But we'll have to see.


Unfortunately she can't be trusted not to change her mind later on and try to screw you if you make the decision to divorce her. You'd be wise to have a contingency plan just in case things turn ugly. Have you visited *Dad's divorce*? It has a wealth of information, plus forums, that can help you mitigate the impact divorce can have on you. If you haven't, go check it out.


----------



## RadicallyAccepting (Oct 19, 2011)

@morituri - 

Thanks for the link, I will check it out. Meeting with lawyer tomorrow.

Anyone connected with BAN? There's a support group about an hour from here. But it appears that it's mostly concerned with supporting BS in reconciliation. It's looking MAYBE 50/50 for divorce. Anyone know anything about them?


----------



## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I can't understand why you haven't already filed for divorce. There is no advantage for you to be in legal separation unless your locality requires a period of legal separation before divorce. _ I am pretty much in your situation right now, although my wife says her affair is over_ Kinda of a silly statement as she was with him over Halloween and had an hour telephone conversation with him on 11/17. She is gone at the end of December when I can legally remove her from my home and end her cake eating. 

Good luck


----------



## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

> I will have to ask you to step outside and defend her honor.


You're willing to take Shaggy out and teach _him_ a lesson, but not the guy who's been banging your wife? WOW!

As to the "good" parent thing... I don't buy it either. I was under the impression that kids learn by example. What kind of example is she showing her "dear" children, if she's willing to cheat on their father and treat him(you) like crap. Furthermore, your wife not only cheated on _you_, but on the WHOLE family, including your children. How can you not see that. Good parent... I think not.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

JustaJerk said:


> You're willing to take Shaggy out and teach _him_ a lesson, but not the guy who's been banging your wife? WOW!
> 
> As to the "good" parent thing... I don't buy it either. I was under the impression that kids learn by example. What kind of example is she showing her "dear" children, if she's willing to cheat on their father and treat him(you) like crap. Furthermore, your wife not only cheated on _you_, but on the WHOLE family, including your children. How can you not see that. Good parent... I think not.


It seems like holding the other man to account has become old hat and (snicker) beneath everyone. Now its he "didn't cheat on me , she did". :slap:


----------



## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

I didn't say he should literally kick this guy's ass- HE DID! He's the one who wants to take Shaggy out and teach him a lesson. I think his wife's honor was left at the door once she took this OM as a lover... don't you?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

JustaJerk said:


> I didn't say he should literally kick this guy's ass- HE DID! He's the one who wants to take Shaggy out and teach him a lesson.


But I did.


----------



## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm in the same boat. It irks me that he has the gall to "call out" Shaggy to fight, but not the guy who's actually getting dirty with his wife. How does that work?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

JustaJerk said:


> I'm in the same boat. It irks me that he has the gall to "call out" Shaggy to fight, but not the guy who's actually getting dirty with his wife. How does that work?


Often,emotions run high on this board. That includes posters looking for help and people that are trying to help.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So if I kicked the OMs but after I got kicked stepping outside does that count?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> So if I kicked the OMs but after I got kicked stepping outside does that count?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Going down swinging is just as good as winning. If he's bigger it doesn't matter if you get your a$$ kicked, it just means you're a better man than he is. That's better than winning.


----------



## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

Dude, you have to step-up to the plate if someone calls you out, no matter what. Even if you get your ass kicked, at least you go down swinging.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I like the way you think JJ, but being called out with regard to my WW, well whats the point? Being called out with regard to my dog well then bring it on.

Interesting, having my niegbor shoot my dog with a bb gun is worth more to me then having some POS take my cheating wife.

For christ sakes its just a dog, and a loyal dog at that.

My point is there are things worth fighting for and there are things that just need to be let go.

Yes I hate the SOB that slept with my wife but my wife slept with him. 10,000 years ago I could have just clubbed her and dragged her back to the cave.

Its all about choices these days, and I make the choice to fight for things worth fighting for.....loyal dogs = yes...cheating wifes = no.

Just my $0.02


----------



## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

^Oh yeah... I get what your saying. Its not worth the effort. My point was that Radically was "calling out" Shaggy when it came to defending his wife's honor, yet he's sitting there watching her go off with OM on yet another rendezvous. Honor... what honor??? See what I mean? Shaggy isn't the culprit here. His wife and OM are.


----------



## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

the guy said:


> I like the way you think JJ, but being called out with regard to my WW, well whats the point? Being called out with regard to my dog well then bring it on.
> 
> Interesting, having my niegbor shoot my dog with a bb gun is worth more to me then having some POS take my cheating wife.
> 
> ...


Ouch! LOL


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

JJ
I read through the thread pretty fast and I kinda got the point (honor and all and all of shaggys sananagains).

I just liked the way your last post sounded by it self and had to add my two cents...thats all.



Ain't no thing but a thing" -Platoon- forgot the year.



Hope I'm not threadjacking??????


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Bump for folks trying to hard.


----------

