# Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I see there is another thread on here about a wife having a wild past. On top of that, she sexual acts with a past lover(s) that she claims will never be done with her current husband. To no one's surprise the OP of the latest thread is reacting just like any of the other guys who have wrote previous threads about this subject. He feels rejection, jealousy, anger and sadness. And he's wondering where does he fall short and does he do it for his wife? 

I'm curious to see if as a group we can get a better idea of what the underlying root cause for the feelings of rejection, humility, anger and bewilderment by being denied sex acts from your wife that she used to give to previous lovers. I have a small list possible underlying causes that may make this situation more difficult to analyze than what we see at face value.


Feeling rejected because you are refused these experiences with your wife. It drives you mad that someone knows your wife better than you. Also, you equate what she will and won't do in the bedroom with you directly to how much physical attraction she has for you.
Feeling upset primarily over the idea that you never did these kind of things with another woman before. You want to try have these new experiences, but the avenue is supposedly permanently off limits to you because now that you are married, your wife won't satiate your curiousity.
Upset over a perceived imbalance in the relationship. Your wife has done more with more people than you. You feel like there is an imbalance in the relationship and you don't know how to rectify it.
Upset over an injustice. You may not even care if you do ever partake in these "taboo" sex acts and maybe never gave it much thought. However, if your wife did it for someone else, then you deserve to get yours whether you really want to do these things or not.

My thinking is that there may be more than one reason to feel the upset over being denied something your wife used to do with others. Normally it seems like most people key in on the first bullet. However, I think the feelings will well up in the husband for a different reason than the "rejection angle" or maybe for more than one reason. 

I'm blessed in that I will not feel any of these types of feelings because I've done everything I've wanted to do with a previous girlfriend as well as with my wife. I've never did any swapping, orgies, threesomes, gangbangs, cuckold fantasies nor engaged in any sex acts involving feces or urine. Everything else I've done with two other women (not at the same time!). The reason why I included a little snippet about myself here is because I believe that my past experiences will help me with any future relationships if I ever have to go back into the dating scene due to death of my spouse or divorce. I'm happily married so I don't anticipate a divorce. However, if I do have to date and end up with another woman who won't do the same things for me sexually than she did in her past, I don't know if I would feel bent out of shape about it. Since I would have experienced a good variety of intimacy, I think the idea of "being there and doing that" would insulate me from a lot of the pain. 

What is the primary driver in feeling upset over being denied sex acts that were given to others in the past? Is it because you can't experience these things with your wife specifically or is it more along the lines of these sex acts being new for you and you won't have the opportunity to ever experience them? I have a feeling that it's more of the latter than the former going on. I'm curious to see if my thoughts are correct on it. Apologies if this was fleshed out in the other thread.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Most people are stupid, and people that play games (ie. withholding sex or sexual acts) are stupid. They're not marriage material.

My opinion.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> What is the primary driver in feeling upset over being denied sex acts that were given to others in the past? Is it because you can't experience these things with your wife specifically or is it more along the lines of these sex acts being new for you and you won't have the opportunity to ever experience them? I have a feeling that it's more of the latter than the former going on. I'm curious to see if my thoughts are correct on it. Apologies if this was fleshed out in the other thread.


Well, I think the main hurt the OP in that other thread is feeling is the fact that his wife LIED to him about her sexual past, or at least lied by ommission. 

He had to find out she did those things from the blabberings of her drunk girlfriend...twenty years after the fact. 

He feels that his marriage and sex life with his wife have been a sham. And I believe that since he confronted her, she told him those acts were off-limits to him.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Well, I think the main hurt the OP in that other thread is feeling is the fact that his wife LIED to him about her sexual past, or at least lied by ommission.
> 
> He had to find out she did those things from the blabberings of her drunk girlfriend...twenty years after the fact.
> 
> He feels that his marriage and sex life with his wife have been a sham. And I believe that since he confronted her, she told him those acts were off-limits to him.


I think that OP's wife did him a terrible injustice. I would be very upset if that happened to me. What I don't get about that situation is he was content to not have those things. Yes, his sex life could have been more but he signed up for the deal he currently has now. I would not.

Note, I'm not that far into that thread.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think that OP's wife did him a terrible injustice. I would be very upset if that happened to me. What I don't get about that situation is he was content to not have those things. Yes, his sex life could have been more but he signed up for the deal he currently has now. I would not.
> 
> Note, I'm not that far into that thread.


I do agree with alot of the female posters that a woman has the right to stop doing certain sex acts and refuse to do them with a man who she sees as a potential husband for reasons that are all her own. 

But don't lie to a guy, or say you didn't do such things, and then string him along for an entire marriage giving him nothing but vanilla sex. How is that honest? How is that saving his feelings? 

A man should have the right to know the woman he is marrying through and through before he signs that marriage license, and vice versa! 

The OP in that other thread was unknowingly denied a choice. He was cheated out of a fulfilling sex life by a selfish spouse.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Bandit I agree with you. But I still can't get past the notion that she laid out what she will do with him up front (unfortunately she lied about though). He accepted that deal. Why if it was important to him? I would have walked if I was told up front that certain things were off the table.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

My husband is fine with things I've done and he knows that if he truly desired them (not just desired them bc I did them in the past) that I would do it for him.He knows I degraded myself in the past due to mental issues and I have a feeling he's very choosy about what he asks of me sexually.So I tend to be the one initiating anything outside of the "norm" to sort of let him know I'm ok with certain things.
He's a strange one though.He wouldn't be angry if I had kept the information to myself all this time.He's one of those "i'd rather not know" kind of men.Anything I've told him is bc I felt he needed to know and not so much that he wanted to know.

Now if he asked and I lied or glossed over the truth and he found out later he would be absolutely livid and probably really hurt.There's no reason to lie to your spouse about where you've been in your life and what you've done.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

For me it would be: 

"Feeling rejected because you are refused these experiences with your wife. It drives you mad that someone knows your wife better than you. Also, you equate what she will and won't do in the bedroom with you directly to how much physical attraction she has for you."

I would directly equate the denial of something SHE ENJOYED as my being less in her eyes than the ex. Wheather that's loved less, less hot for me, less dominant, or what ever I don't know. 

Now if it was something she tried and hated, even if she continued to do it for the ex (which I would think of as abuse), I wouldn't want any part of it.

There's one more point. If she did it, enjoyed it, and then I had to persuade her, I would STILL believe I was lesser somehow. And she only did it to please me. So there would be no resolution to the situation in my mind. The only way I could see this working in some way is if the act in question came up and she immediately said something like "It can be a lot of fun. We should do it sometime." But once there was refusal it would be too late to ever convince me she WANTED to do it with me.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Bandit I agree with you. But I still can't get past the notion that she laid out what she will do with him up front (unfortunately she lied about though). He accepted that deal. Why if it was important to him? I would have walked if I was told up front that certain things were off the table.


Well.. he loved her! 

He probably said to himself, "Self, if I have to make a trade between spending my life with this woman I love and not getting some of the naughty sex I would like to try but have never done before then that is a fair trade-off. I will gladly give up the hope of ever trying thse things if this sweet little innocent lady will agree to be my bride." 

He got hosed... plain and simple.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm going to answer the question based upon my personal experience. And quite honestly, I don't expect people to much like the answer.

I did not have wild, off the hook sex when I was younger. I have had wild, off the hook sex post divorce, mid-forties.

I don't go looking for sex. I don't actively seduce women. I don't push anyone, ever, to do things they aren't comfortable doing.

My personal belief is that for whatever reason, it is much easier to be 'unhinged' with someone whom you don't know a great deal about, or to whom you do not have a strong emotional commitment or bond.

You get to be someone else, or do things you normally wouldn't do, with someone who is 'new' and relatively unknown. There is no judgement, no preconceived notions or expectations of what is, or isn't ok. It's discovery, it's adventurous, it's fun ... just like it's supposed to be, whether for the first time, or 500th time.

Most of the women I have been in sexual relationships with have run the gamut from divorced, to newly separated, to just out of a long term relationship but not married.

And I can guarantee, that we did things that were either first time, or stuff they had never done with their previous partners.

It's liberating. It's experimental. And depending upon what it is we are talking about, sometimes, it simply can't translate into what is on the menu in a regular long term relationship.

I used to be a big believer that the idea of having sex with someone the first time you met them was little more than story-telling. Who really does that after all?

Well, LOTS of people do. Even people that think they would NEVER do something like have sex with someone they just met.

It is hard to go from being the man that your spouse has built a dynamic of security, respectability, and comfort with to being the guy that can whisper in her ear while out to dinner, to go remove her panties and hand them to you under the table when she gets back and have her do anything other than bust out laughing. 

Same scenario with a guy she doesn't know all that well, but has the hots for? And it's exciting and game on.

There is a pervasive air on this board that I have noted in my tenure here. 
There are a lot of burned men that are all too eager to paint a picture of what a virtuous wife, versus a wh0re wife looks like.

My opinion? Men need to put the paint brushes down.

Men need different and changing things throughout the course of their lives.

So do women.

From my perspective, a woman can be a loving mother, member of the PTA and in the church choir, and still in the privacy of her bedroom be a freak for her husband OR the 2 or 20 dudes before him. Or ... she may not. Not ever. It's up to them, what they will work for, accept, or find unacceptable.

What we get stuck in are the dynamics that we create when we are forging our loving relationships. And they are extraordinarily difficult for us to break, for all but the most skilled communicators, and those willing to preserve their bond.

I'd like to stop making this 'Their fault'. 

If your wife doesn't want to connect sexually, experiment sexually, legitimately discuss with you the reasons WHY she isn't into that with YOU, then you have options.

Yes you can feel hurt, rejected, and marginalized ... but you can't stay there.

And you shouldn't come here looking for others to nod and agree that your wife gave up her 'wh0ring' days and settled for a milquetoast like you. That sells the both of you entirely short.

I'm comfortable putting that out there because it is the complete arc of how I came to be here, dealt with MY stuff, and moved on.

As men, we can't act like little boys and whine about the fact that the women we love won't go for something now that she did 20 odd years ago. But ... we can certainly take responsibility for ourselves now. The choices we make. Your loving wife doesn't want a 3some? Good. Now leave her the hell alone, whether she had one on a drunken night in college or not. Respect what she is willing or unwilling to do. Or, don't. Again, you have options. You just need to be prepared to exercise them.

Respect and security go a long way as to what takes place in the bedroom, even in the case of sex on the first date, or a ONS.

I think, hope, we can agree that a woman is not going to be enthusiastic about any kind of physical connection with a man she doesn't feel safe with.

And to be clear I'm talking about married 30 or 40 something women, not young, unmarried, single 20 to 30 something women who for all intents and purposes may be sowing their wild oats, and discovering who they want to be ... just like men do.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

SB, your post in the other thread helped me greatly in understanding my GF's past. Thank you for sharing that part of your story. Glad you found a good man who deserves you.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I will clarify, that with regard to the thread referenced by the OP, I do not believe the wife should have lied. That said, had she been honest, I also don't believe that the outcome would be any different.

She isn't into it anymore. It's up to her husband to accept or reject. As a result of her lying, she has skewed what the likely outcome will be.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I do not believe the wife should have lied. That said, had she been honest, I also don't believe that the outcome would be any different.


I agree with this.


In the case of that thread,OP wants what he wants bc she gave it to someone else...that's the primary hurt.The secondary hurt is likely the lying.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> SB, your post in the other thread helped me greatly in understanding my GF's past. Thank you for sharing that part of your story. Glad you found a good man who deserves you.


awww thank you!! It's nice to know my babbling helped someone LOL


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

We have also covered this phenomenon when discussing the 50 Shades of Grey factor, in the past.

Women bought, read, and swooned over this stuff in droves. They made it clear that it excited, and titillated them. 

Did they want some of this in their sexual relationships? 

You bet'cha.

But the important part is that they didn't, or couldn't possibly imagine fulfilling those desires ... with their husband.

Again, dynamics. The mind is a powerful thing.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

That has more to do with the individual.

I'm experimenting with my husband, and doing things I would never do with past boyfriends. I expect the same from him (he's very young, but the point remains).

One problem with marriages is that people don't fully open up to each other sexually, romantically, and emotionally.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I will clarify, that with regard to the thread referenced by the OP, I do not believe the wife should have lied. That said, had she been honest, I also don't believe that the outcome would be any different.
> 
> She isn't into it anymore. It's up to her husband to accept or reject. As a result of her lying, she has skewed what the likely outcome will be.


I disagree with you. I think you are selling that OP short. He seems like a very decent guy who is hurting, hurting badly. 

I think if she had been honest with him up front, told him the reasons why she no longer wanted to engage in that activity, that he would have married her anyway and found a way to live around it.

And all that crap he said about forcing his wife to do those things or he was going to divorce her were all said out of anger, against a bunch of fairweather feminists who like to stir sh!t. I don't blame him for getting angry. I do blame him for letting them get to him.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Deejo said:


> We have also covered this phenomenon when discussing the 50 Shades of Grey factor, in the past.
> 
> Women bought, read, and swooned over this stuff in droves. They made it clear that it excited, and titillated them.
> 
> ...


Okay...

But why?

That is the mystery.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Anonymous Person said:


> That has more to do with the individual.
> 
> I'm experimenting with my husband, and doing things I would never do with past boyfriends. I expect the same from him (he's very young, but the point remains).
> 
> *One problem with marriages is that people don't fully open up to each other sexually, romantically, and emotionally*.


Is it a power game?


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Is it a power game?


They lack the ability to empathize with their partner in a meaningful way.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

bandit.45 said:


> I disagree with you. I think you are selling that OP short. He seems like a very decent guy who is hurting, hurting badly.
> 
> I think if she had been honest with him up front, told him the reasons why she no longer wanted to engage in that activity, that he would have married her anyway and found a way to live around it.
> 
> And all that crap he said about forcing his wife to do those things or he was going to divorce her were all said out of anger, against a bunch of fairweather feminists who like to stir sh!t. I don't blame him for getting angry. I do blame him for letting them get to him.


He does seem a very decent guy. And yes, I agree that some of what he is posting is just part of the hurt and anger. I certainly don't wish him ill. In many ways I can relate, all too clearly. In my case, it WAS on the menu at the start of our relationship and then became the unthinkable to her down the road and after kids.

I have an idea of where the OP was coming from, right down to:


> Talking time is done for her, time to lube up, or learn to mow the lawn IMO.


I also forgot that the lie was 20 years ago, and perhaps had she come clean at that time, those things may have been available to the two of them ... or he may have dumped her thinking she was 'tainted'.

Perspective is a funny thing when looked at through the long lens of time.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Anonymous Person said:


> They lack the ability to empathize with their partner in a meaningful way.


See, I think they manufacture a completely different frame of reference based upon how, or what, they believe their partner represents.

There have been more than a few threads here where a former party girl, withheld sex, or information from the man whom she loved and admired and wanted to marry.

I don't think anyone has difficulty imagining a scenario where a young man has more sexual experience than a young woman, yet still wants his potential wife to be chaste and virtuous.

Same dynamic I tried to highlight in my opening post.

I can't understand why a woman wouldn't be open about her past, any more than I can understand a guy who loves her but would hold it against her, or hold it over her head.

To me, both views are equally ... misguided.

If a virtuous man insists on being partnered with a virtuous woman, so be it. I never had this requirement, nor do I much understand it.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Deejo said:


> See, I think they manufacture a completely different frame of reference based upon how, or what, they believe their partner represents.
> 
> *There have been more than a few threads here where a former party girl, withheld sex, or information from the man whom she loved and admired and wanted to marry.*
> 
> ...


That almost seems to be self shaming...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

samyeagar said:


> That almost seems to be self shaming...


Exactly. And it shouldn't be. As I have said in other threads, often there seems to be the guy she wants to lay, and the guy she wants to stay.

I find this topic fascinating. I also think it is a discussion we can have without shaming either gender. It's a simple dream ... but it's mine.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Deejo said:


> As I have said in other threads, often there seems to be the guy she wants to lay, and the guy she wants to stay.


If I'm not the guy she wants to lay, then I don't want to stay. If she has to lie about the lay to make me stay, my marriage starts as a manipulation. Makes a man feel like a chump when he finds out.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Deejo said:


> We have also covered this phenomenon when discussing the 50 Shades of Grey factor, in the past.
> 
> Women bought, read, and swooned over this stuff in droves. They made it clear that it excited, and titillated them.
> 
> ...


I like how you have focussed this discussion down to some fundamentals. If a wife cannot give the kind of love to a husband that he needs (and we can assume that a healthy sexual interaction is a major component), then I cannot believe that a husband is then able of giving her what she needs (where here I assume emotional availability, communication and affection are very important). He won't, in fact. This negative feedback loop runs in both directions of course. Leading to the same place...divorce.

Women need to understand how important the "physical" - and the feelings surrounding it - is to a man. Some clearly don't get it. They will pay a price for that ignorance eventually


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Reverse Madonna Wh0re Syndrome:

Wife as a child grows up with her beloved father on a pedestal. She worships him and does everything she can to please him and make him proud of her. This entails acting sweet and behaving like a chaste, perfect little lady. She wants her daddy to respect her and value her so she does all things to keep that flawless image of her intact in his eyes. 

But enter into adulthood, her sexual awakening, she starts having sex with men, and she likes it. She likes it alot, and does it often and tries out every kind of sex that there is barring the really dangerous stuff. But when she sees her dad, the wh0re side of her is pushed to the back of the shelf and the sweet, chaste, innocent daughter is brought back out and put on display. 

Then she meets "The One", the guy who has everything she wants: a future with a steady job, not un-handsome, understanding, funny, stable....just like her dad. 

So she lets herself be wooed and courted by this guy. She's not particularly sexually attracted to him, but he'll do. He has enough of the other traits she is looking for in a potentially stable mate that she is willing to forgo the kinky stuff for the next fifty years. 

So to get him interested, she has nice, energetic sex with him. Not the kind of wild, uninhibited porn sex she has been having with other guys, but just energetic enough to get him to fall for her and hope she'll give him more. She wants him to know he can have sex with her, but she won't ever let him know about her naughty side because, she doesnt want her new daddy to know that secretly she is naughty. 

The boyfriend has taken the place of her father. The boyfriend is put on the pedestal in place of her dad, and she does everything she can to make sure his image of her never wavers or changes. She's a chaste, wholesome wife who would never stoop to doing all those raunchy things that _those other women _do! Because if he ever found out she had those little sexual vices of hers, no way he could ever respect her....and she cannot risk that!

And so the lying, hiding and obfuscating begins....


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

So to the guys....have none of you been to a strip club, hired a hooker, or otherwise done something that isn't necessarily part of your "normal" sex life...and have you withheld this info from future women in your lives?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Women need to understand how important the "physical" - and the feelings surrounding it - is to a man. Some clearly don't get it. They will pay a price for that ignorance eventually


A woman knows her man loves her when he supports her emotionally, is a good father to her children, keeps a steady job, pays the bills and doesn't cheat.

A man knows his wife loves him when she has uninhibited sex with him, whenever he needs it, and at least acts like she enjoys it.

So many women just do not get this, and no amount of proof will ever make them believe otherwise. Men are pigs.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Gentlemen,
Sometimes I think we overthink or over analyze this.

The average woman knows exactly how to get a man to do exactly what she wants. They understand how men are wired.
If she withholding sexual flavours from you, and just giving you vanilla, then she doesn't have the hots for you, or perhaps , not anymore.
Loss of respect is at the root of this IMO.

The question is why?

Respect is a mental condition that evokes a physical response.

The problem is that the average man doesn't understand how women are wired or think they're too complicated.
So they are unable to read her signs , and when she shuts down , they are at a complete loss.
Sometimes a woman knows her man better than he knows himself.
That's a tremendous amount of power for a woman who doesn't respect you to wield.
I think men should first understand that women are wired differently to them, differently to what they see in the movies and most of all, seek to understand _your _woman's wiring.

The only " magical" thing about that guy that can make her drop her panties just by locking eyes with her, is that he know something about women and speaks in a language she understands perfectly well and wants to respond to.
Raw lust.

There is no simple , " one size fits all " answer to this problem, although it is a common problem.
The solution is as varied and different as the personalities involved.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> So to the guys....have none of you been to a strip club, hired a hooker, or otherwise done something that isn't necessarily part of your "normal" sex life...and have you withheld this info from future women in your lives?


I suppose if their wife asked them, they would tell the truth or be hypocrites.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> So to the guys....*have none of you been to a strip club, hired a hooker, or otherwise done something that isn't necessarily part of your "normal" sex life*...and have you withheld this info from future women in your lives?


Went to the strip club a few times in college. Been more times with my STBW than I ever did back then. Never hired a hooker, and nothing I ever did before is off the table when it comes to her.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> So to the guys....have none of you been to a strip club, hired a hooker, or otherwise done something that isn't necessarily part of your "normal" sex life...and have you withheld this info from future women in your lives?


Nope. My ex knew everything I did before we married. 

Everything. What I liked and what I didn't like. And I never cheated on her. If I got invited to a strip-club, she didn't mind as long as she knew where I was. 

And I was an HD horndog... She had to keep a bat handy to keep me off of her.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The point is that men do the same thing this thread is about.

Why would you guys think only women do this?

Trust me, LOTS of people of both genders do this.

And you know what else? Some people genuinely don't care!

So while you (anyone) are thinking that you have the truth about how this should all go down between every two people...you are wrong. This is a matter of opinion, not fact.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

(and just to make it clear....my husband and I do not have this issue in our marriage...this is not some trigger point for me)


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> And I was an HD horndog... She had to keep a bat handy to keep me off of her.


In my house,DH is the one who needs the bat. Especially now that I've discovered how hot he looks in his new boxer briefs. Omg.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> The point is that men do the same thing this thread is about.
> 
> Why would you guys think only women do this?
> 
> ...


I always assumed most people wouldn't care as long as they have a healthy sex life that fulfills their needs. What's the point in caring about the past if your needs in the present are met.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I've done more, with more women, than my W has. She knows about it. She doesn't want any part of (most of) it. And we're both fine with it. 

However, she learned this long before we were lovers. She knew I was a flirt, and was very concerned about this, in entering a relationship with me. Then, of course, she cheated on me so I guess that was a red herring. 

But I digress. 

Knowing the other's past is OK. But don't ask a question if you can't handle the answer.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> The point is that men do the same thing this thread is about.
> 
> Why would you guys think only women do this?
> 
> ...



You really think that men go from being uninhibited sex fiends, to Mr. Victorian Age Gentleman when they get married?

I know of guys who can't seem to get their freak-on to their ladies satisfaction, and certainly there are cases on the board of husbands who used to enthusiastically have sex with their wives, but now their wives are the ones with the HD, while they exhibit disinterest. This is the rarer case in my experience. No less tragic.

I think you are focusing on a different aspect. And I think we can all agree that lying and manipulation isn't a great way to start a marriage regardless of who is doing it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> The point is that men do the same thing this thread is about.
> 
> Why would you guys think only women do this?
> 
> ...


You are dead on. I agree with you completely. It is wrong on both sides. 

One thing I learned going through addiction therapy (I'm a recovering alcoholic) is that addicts, like newelyweds, start off their relationships by lying to the people they love. Then as the relationship matures, they have to tell more lies to cover up the ones they just told, and on and on until the true behavior (in this case sexual kinkiness) eventually gets discovered or comes to the surface. Then it is revealed, both partners deal with the shame and make temproary adjustments to get past it. But then as time moves on they get lazy again, new lies are told, and then more lies to cover those lies.

The circle goes round and round.... 

Marriage forces equilibrium, and some spouses will do anythuing to maintain it...even lying their socks off.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

No Deejo, I just think men do things they are not necessarily proud of and don't tell their girlfriends who then later become their wives.

And I think that's the same situation as what Plan 9 wrote this thread about, only opposite genders.

And I think a lot of men if not MOST, have viewed a lot of porn that they don't plan to discuss with their wives....even though the wives have asked.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> No Deejo, I just think men do things they are not necessarily proud of and don't tell their girlfriends who then later become their wives.
> 
> And I think that's the same situation as what Plan 9 wrote this thread about, only opposite genders.
> 
> And I think a lot of men if not MOST, have viewed a lot of porn that they don't plan to discuss with their wives....even though the wives have asked.


Both do it, both are wrong.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

I haven't read all the responses but my wife is my first and only wife and I was a virgen on our wedding day. she was not. she had ben having sex sense she was like 18 which she regretted and the first time was rape and she did things she didn't want to so the guy would love her etc.

well I found out she did things with guys she does not want to do with me. its because it reminds her of being used and raped etc. so it makes sense to me and I ok with it. she slowly warmed up to some of the things but won't do it often. ay first I was hurt but later I stoped caring and putting my self in her shoe could understand her aversion. like I said one of the acts she quit relating to being used cuss she trust in my love for her and then she wanted to do it for me but its phisicaly dificolt for her so she don't like to do it much.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> And I think a lot of men if not MOST, have viewed a lot of porn that they don't plan to discuss with their wives....even though the wives have asked.


I think that is a fantastic analogy Faithful.

Although I can say 100% truthfully, I never have seen 2 Girls 1 Cup.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> I haven't read all the responses but my wife is my first and only wife and I was a virgen on our wedding day. she was not. she had ben having sex sense she was like 18 which she regretted and the first time was rape and she did things she didn't want to so the guy would love her etc.
> 
> well I found out she did things with guys she does not want to do with me. its because it reminds her of being used and raped etc. so it makes sense to me and I ok with it. she slowly warmed up to some of the things but won't do it often. ay first I was hurt but later I stoped caring and putting my self in her shoe could understand her aversion. like I said one of the acts she quit relating to being used cuss she trust in my love for her and then she wanted to do it for me but its phisicaly dificolt for her so she don't like to do it much.


Why would your wife do those things for other men, things that were done to her during rape? Why? What was her endgame in doing those things? If not for enjoyment then why? 

Most women who had been through a traumatic rape would never dream of doing such things with ANY man, including her husband. And if a man did try to force her, she'd probably kick him in the nads and run. 

I think your wife sold you a bill of goods.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> I haven't read all the responses but my wife is my first and only wife and I was a virgen on our wedding day. she was not. she had ben having sex sense she was like 18 which she regretted and the first time was rape and she did things she didn't want to so the guy would love her etc.
> 
> well I found out she did things with guys she does not want to do with me. its because it reminds her of being used and raped etc. so it makes sense to me and I ok with it. she slowly warmed up to some of the things but won't do it often. ay first I was hurt but later I stoped caring and putting my self in her shoe could understand her aversion. like I said one of the acts she quit relating to being used cuss she trust in my love for her and then she wanted to do it for me but its phisicaly dificolt for her so she don't like to do it much.


Is this the same wife who won't have sex w you before work because the smell of your sperm is too strong for her? I still think that one is an excuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

bandit.45 said:


> Okay...
> 
> But why?
> 
> That is the mystery.


Can only assure you that it has held my attention since my marriage tanked, 5 years ago.

I think it is a remarkably tall order for one man to fill, to be the provider of comfort, security, stability and emotional support, while also being the guy that keeps her attracted, intrigued and sexually adventurous over the course of many years.

Arguably, you need to learn to be more than one guy.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Can only assure you that it has held my attention since my marriage tanked, 5 years ago.
> 
> I think it is a remarkably tall order for one man to fill, to be the provider of comfort, security, stability and emotional support, while also being the guy that keeps her attracted, intrigued and sexually adventurous over the course of many years.
> 
> Arguably, you need to learn to be more than one guy.


:iagree:

And what makes it harder for men to do this is a pop culture that tells women the lie that they can have it all (Oprah, Desperate Housewives, Sex and the City...)

And not only can they have it all... but they deserve it all, and dammit to hell if their husband cannot be everything to them then they need to go out and find it! 

Hence the growing cougar movement of sexually unsatisfied women dumping their hard working, loving hubbies for twenty-something BestBuy clerks.... 




BUUUUUUUUUTTTTT......... MEN DO IT TOO!!!!!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Can only assure you that it has held my attention since my marriage tanked, 5 years ago.
> 
> I think it is a remarkably tall order for one man to fill, to be the provider of comfort, security, stability and emotional support, while also being the guy that keeps her attracted, intrigued and sexually adventurous over the course of many years.
> 
> Arguably, you need to learn to be more than one guy.


I hear that. It's definitely tough when your spouse needs you to be a ferocious freaky sex kitten then flip the switch and be mommy,chef,housekeeper,and bring home some bacon too. All done while being supportive,loving,while walking that sexy fine line between being meek,mild,and sweet and being strong,straightforward and formidable.

Multiple personalities will win him every time.  lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I think it is a remarkably tall order for one man to fill, to be the provider of comfort, security, stability and emotional support, while also being the guy that keeps her attracted, intrigued and sexually adventurous over the course of many years.


A tall order, but not an impossible one. The trick is to find the woman who really does feel like you fit all of those needs, instead of just most of them. It's tough to find that woman, though, when other women who are willing to settle for a partial list are dishonest about their feelings to trap a man into a suboptimal marriage.

Does this work both ways, gender-wise? Maybe. I'm sure there are men who misrepresent their employment history so a woman might see them as a potential good provider. A man who does so is just as much a jerk as a woman who misrepresents her sexuality because she is willing to settle for other desirable traits in a husband.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

Scarlet yes it is. I know it's not a lie. If she could she would for every day. She just gets nevis about Co workers making fun of her visa u can smell sex when u get by her.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

See I don't understand the whole argument. As a woman, ,I am opposite. The safer I feel, the more loved and secure i feel the more I love back and the more sexually open I become . For me the deeper the relationship becomes the better sex gets. Casual sex isnt for me so I just don't fathom getting freaky or moving outside my comfort zone with a stranger or someone I don't feel loved by or trust . I seem to be the minority at least according to this thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I understand it on the opposite side. You fall in love with someone and you find yourself making concessions. I love him - he is a great guy - maybe he will get more comfortable with time.

Say sexual adventure is on a scale from 1-10. You are comfortable going to a 6 or 7 and marry someone who cannot be pushed past 3-4. You tell yourself you don't get everything in life. 

But then you overhear your spouse bragging about enjoying past adventures at 7 or 8. Yes I would be mad! It's not jealousy so much as being denied the experience for years and finding out it was needless.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I don't know if you are referring to me when you speak of making concessions ... I'm not. It is what turns me on. its what I like. As for the op of that other thread I feel for him. He is in anguish. Given his portrayal of the situation I understand and empathize .If she liked it then its strange to suddenly be so averse to it. if she never liked it and did it anyway ... Whole other story ...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I'm not sure if you are responding to me inarut - but I was talking about myself being in a marriage that I wish was more sexually adventurous. I have made concessions because My H has many other good qualities. If I found out he had been more adventurous in the past I would be pissed!


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I'm not sure if you are responding to me inarut - but I was talking about myself being in a marriage that I wish was more sexually adventurous. I have made concessions because My H has many other good qualities. If I found out he had been more adventurous in the past I would be pissed!


I did think you were responding to me. Sorry 
If I were in the position you portrayed I would be pissed too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Can only assure you that it has held my attention since my marriage tanked, 5 years ago.
> 
> I think it is a remarkably tall order for one man to fill, to be the provider of comfort, security, stability and emotional support, while also being the guy that keeps her attracted, intrigued and sexually adventurous over the course of many years.
> 
> Arguably, you need to learn to be more than one guy.


Be a good guy! Just make sure to never lose your backbone!


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Deejo said:


> We have also covered this phenomenon when discussing the 50 Shades of Grey factor, in the past.
> 
> Women bought, read, and swooned over this stuff in droves. They made it clear that it excited, and titillated them.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a very good reason to never get married (for men that is).


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I think, hope, we can agree that a woman is not going to be enthusiastic about any kind of physical connection with a man she doesn't feel safe with.
> 
> And to be clear I'm talking about married 30 or 40 something women, not young, unmarried, single 20 to 30 something women who for all intents and purposes may be sowing their wild oats, and discovering who they want to be ... just like men do.


These two sentences seem to contradict one another (and only reinforces the idea that married men are providers to women, not lovers).


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

*Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feeling*



ntamph said:


> These two sentences seem to contradict one another (and only reinforces the idea that married men are providers to women, not lovers).


I couldn't disagree more. Most women now a days don't need or want a provider not in the monetary sense . We want lovers and life partners to share all aspects of life. Men are no longer pivotal to financial security. It may be true for some but its not the norm anymore. Not being able to be enthusiastic or open with a man who a woman does not feel secure with .... Spot on. There are many different ways to "provide" and the most important ones are not monetary, its emotional.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

There is a saying that goes, "You don't pay her to stay, you pay her to leave" regarding prostitutes. What I gather from this is that you can be your uninhibited self in front of this anonymous person, but in front of a person who you spend day after day with you tend to hold back. We may want to think differently but marriage is a constant balancing of yourself and your spouse. 2 people with complete personalities and life experiences are joined for life, no one completes the other because then you would be co-dependent. In an effort to keep some individuality spouses tend to hold back their complete selves so they won't be totally enmeshed with the other.

This is why most people will feel better getting wild and freaky with a one than a life partner, because you need to see the life partner the next day. Men who did not sow their oats earlier in life may look forward to marriage as this never ending supply of sex that they always wanted. They may have been denied by girlfriends and saw how the "alpha" males got all of the chicks and was able to brag in the locker room about their wild nights. These are the men who take it personally when their wife omits sexual history. They want their wife to make up for all of the rejection and regrets.

I feel that no one person can completely fulfill another person's hopes and dreams. This would be a tall order for anyone. I have always been an independent person, I make as much as my hubby and I never relied on him to complete me, I think that reeks of co-dependency.

Just my 2 cents, fwiw.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Deejo said:


> We have also covered this phenomenon when discussing the 50 Shades of Grey factor, in the past.
> 
> Women bought, read, and swooned over this stuff in droves. They made it clear that it excited, and titillated them.
> 
> ...


I was hoping to never see this in print even though I am living it right now.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Reverse Madonna Wh0re Syndrome:
> 
> Wife as a child grows up with her beloved father on a pedestal. She worships him and does everything she can to please him and make him proud of her. This entails acting sweet and behaving like a chaste, perfect little lady. She wants her daddy to respect her and value her so she does all things to keep that flawless image of her intact in his eyes.
> 
> ...


OMG!!!! This thread is beginning to be the most valuable therapy session I have ever had.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

ntamph said:


> These two sentences seem to contradict one another (and only reinforces the idea that married men are providers to women, not lovers).


I don't think they are contradictory.

I'm talking about women that HAVE been married. They have likely done the same dance most of us here have. 

They found themselves in a dead end, unfulfilling, or unsatisfying dynamic that weaved a web of resentment, regret, rejection, or withdrawal of intimacy ... and that relationship ended. There was lack, and that lack grew, spread, and eroded the foundation of the relationship.

And now, they rediscover someone new with whom they can be emotionally honest with, passionate, and off the hook sexually with none of the same dynamic or associations from their previous marriage or LTR.

I really don't want to kiss and tell here. Suffice to say that I have had several experiences with women whose husbands or partners completely withdrew from them. My last 4 partners were extraordinarily high drive women. One left a husband that she hadn't had sex with in over a year. Another left a LTR with a man that wasn't sexually adventurous ... but by all other accounts was an outstanding guy, and another discovered she was being cheated on and gas-lighted by her partner of 8 years.

These were all extraordinarily uninhibited women that I'm guessing would be seen in a very different light by their partners.

How many times have we seen on the boards, a man who describes that his wife thinks he is a degenerate for wanting to have regular sex with her? Do you think he's really a degenerate?
Partner the woman with a new and exciting man. Do you think she is going to have a sexual aversion to him?

Again, look to when someone here discovers their partner is having an affair. They discover email, or voice messages, or lingerie ... all indicating behavior that wasn't even on the table in terms of their intimate relationship.

The problem may be as simple as boredom and familiarity.

Wouldn't that be a gut wrenching tragedy?

Or it's something else. Part of our very nature that makes people uncomfortable to dig up and look at.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

If men were as romantic in marriage as they are in affairs then marriages could be better.

It's the same for women that are more sexual in affairs than in marriage.

It's why people that cannot are stupid and not relationship material.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I don't think they are contradictory.
> 
> I'm talking about women that HAVE been married. They have likely done the same dance most of us here have.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to be deliberately dense, but how does this NOT add up to "if you value an uninhibited and varied sex life, don't get married?"


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Deejo said:


> There have been more than a few threads here where a former party girl, withheld sex, or information from the man whom she loved and admired and wanted to marry.


No, they just lie about who and what they are, the way a used car salesman winds back the odometer on a clapped out car, in order to make the sale. 

It isn't rocket science, these women have ridden the carousel, and have decided it is time to ensnare a beta-provider husband, so say/manipulate/lie-by-omission/ etc in order to rope their "husband" in.

Not that "husband" is a real human much less a Man to them, no he is simply an implement in their machinations to achieve stability and safety and security. Their "Man" dumped them or moved on, and has a harem, and they will fondly cherish his memory forever, whilst beta-morlock-loser "husband" toils like Sisyphus in futility.

FCUK my life, that was me 



> I don't think anyone has difficulty imagining a scenario where a young man has more sexual experience than a young woman, yet still wants his potential wife to be chaste and virtuous.


Because that is biology. For the entirety of our existence as a species up until this point, what other surety did a man have that his progeny was his own other than his woman's chastity and relative inexperience as an indicator of future behaviour?

Leopards do not change their spots afterall.



> I can't understand why a woman wouldn't be open about her past, any more than I can understand a guy who loves her but would hold it against her, or hold it over her head.


Do you REALLY even believe what you wrote, or would you just like to believe it...

Whatever, this forum is not going to change a million years or more of hardwired female human behaviour.

We all gotta die, Men just have to learn to be totally complete and at one with themselves before they do so, alone or otherwise.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Sex in marriage is not be the same as sex when single and dating.
" Great sex" is a relative term that's dependent on variables .

I think it's really important to get to know your partner , men.
Find out what makes her tick , what gives butterflies in her stomach , what makes her wet with desire.
She's human, not a device.
She isn't the same woman she was before marriage , her needs change, just like your demands change.
She will do the things that you want her to do in bed , if mentally or emotionally , she in that place where she feels comfortable to do it.
This is not always logical , it's emotional.

Create the attraction , chemistry , desire and medical or clinical issues aside ,she will follow.

I find Faithful Wife's dance analogy to be very applicable here.
If a man is a skilled dancer , his partner simply yields her body to his desires / lead, and the two bodies move as one.

The dance starts in her mind, if there is no music she won't feel like dancing. If you're dancing out of time, same problem. Both parties on the same wavelength , sex becomes a waltz , tango or salsa.

Good sex is not automatic in marriage, like everything else it takes work from both parties , there are always tangential issues . Being a great provider , faithful , devoted husband does nor guarantee great sex, although it should.
But logic doesn't create sexual attraction or chemistry.
Being the type of lover that commands _her_ respect,goes a long way.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Sex in marriage is not be the same as sex when single and dating.
> " Great sex" is a relative term that's dependent on variables .
> 
> I think it's really important to get to know your partner , men.
> ...


A better analogy would be 2 dancers that are inexperienced and tirelessly work to improve with each other.

No one should have the responsibility of playing mommy or daddy to their partner. A mature adult can open up their desires, become vulnerable to the person they love without unnecessary and childish complications.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I think it's really important to get to know your partner , men.
> Find out what makes her tick , what gives butterflies in her stomach , what makes her wet with desire


How can you give her butterflies and make her wet when you aren't what she really wants sexually in the first place?



> She's human, not a device.


Why is always about her?
Men aren't just "devices" either, or "walking ATM's" or working slaves that a woman has a right to own just because he provides her with security.




> She isn't the same woman she was before marriage , her needs change, just like your demands change.
> She will do the things that you want her to do in bed , if mentally or emotionally , she in that place where she feels comfortable to do it.
> This is not always logical , it's emotional.


50 shades of grey.
It turns women on,
but they can't imagine doing it with their husbands.

Emotional "right place"? I don't think so.

The beta provider IS a role that women pigeon hole men into

And that really is all there is to it. Sadly.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Why does it bother men so much when they know their wives have done sex acts with others that they will not do with them? Some observations:

1. From reading on this board for years, it's clear that many or even most men are bothered or at least uncomfortable with their wife's sexual past. Many 'just don't want to know' and others push what they do know to the back of their minds to protect themselves. Finding out that they did something that they refuse with you just makes them feel even more humiliated and weaker. For many men it's already humiliating that other men have 'conquered' their wife but if they've 'conquered' certain parts of their sexuality that have remained untouched by them, it's even more humiliating. Teens and young adult men have been socialized to treat sexual conquests like a scorecard - some in more extreme ways than others but I think there is usually some aspect to sex as a scorecard among male youth. No other guy is supposed to have a higher 'score' with their wife than they have. 

2. Men are focusing on the wrong things when they think of this topic. Usually men focus on specific physical acts - e.g. "why did she have anal with him and not with me?" or "why did she swallow him and never me?"

The reality is that even if you, yourself have checked off all of the specific acts that she's done with others, you simply can't recreate some of the feelings that she's had with others. Women are less check-list minded when it comes to sex. For them it's less of a scorecard of acts and more about the feelings of their past experiences. And you can't easily recreate the feelings that she felt in her early sexual experiences - perhaps sneaking it in the car, panties pushed to the side for a naughty quickie. The taboo of having sex with a mysterious stranger. Finally getting noticed by the guy she's lusted over for years in school and letting him do whatever he wants in a night of passion. Her first time - whether good or bad it will forever occupy a place in her that you can't touch. Crossing the 'danger' line with a guy - going much too far than you should - nervous and excited, heart racing. The excitement of being with the 'wrong' guy - a good girl attracting the dangerous bad boy. The first time a guy brought her to orgasm. etc etc.

If you want to fret over things that other guys had, don't obsess that the anus is off limits to you when another guy had it. Think about how other guys made her heart race in sexual encounters that cannot be replicated today. This realization should help de-emphasize single acts. Although most women would truthfully say that their best sex is in the context of a loving marriage, it does not change the fact that there is a unique excitement that was part of her early sex life that simply cannot be recreated later in life. To avoid misunderstanding, i'm not saying that married people cannot have exciting sex, it's just that certain fundamental aspects of early sexual encounters cannot be replicated.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Do not listen to any of the advice in this thread. It sounds like parenting advice.

Find a man or woman that doesn't play games, is mature, and willing to open themselves up for you.

I'm glad my husband is romantic with me, I don't need to look like a supermodel for him to treat me like one.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

It's possible some women find it difficult to take it up the butt,get spanked,and talk dirty by night then wake up make the kiddies breakfast,and look hubby in the eyes the next morning.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Anonymous Person said:


> No one should have the responsibility of playing mommy or daddy to their partner. A mature adult can open up their desires, become vulnerable to the person they love without unnecessary and childish complications.


Yes , agreed.

But in real life most people who get married are not well matched.
There are personality types mismatches that doesn't do much to complement each other.
Sexual compatibility is a function of emotional compatibility.
On the biomechanical level, sex is natural and any two partners are automatically " compatible." All that's needed is functional sex organs.
On the psychosexual / emotional level , it isn't that " automatic" and takes a lot of work.
And yes, immaturity at any level does make it more difficult


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

This topic just goes to show how the old fashion idea of saving your self for marriage may just be a good idea. Some thing to keep in minde when you teach your kids and what you can tell them was a consequence of not doing so your self.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> This topic just goes to show how the old fashion idea of saving your self for marriage may just be a good idea. Some thing to keep in minde when you teach your kids and what you can tell them was a consequence of not doing so your self.


"well see little Emily,mommy liked to get freaky before she met daddy.When she was young and made poor choices.Then she met daddy and figured out who she was and didn't wanna get freaky anymore.Instead she wanted love making rather than gang bangs. Daddy didn't like that so he pitched a fit and spent the next few years making mommy feel like a wh*re. See? Now do you understand why you don't need to have premarital sex?"

uh,how about no.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Just look at all the threads in this section.

Women begging their husbands, feeling ugly, depressed, and are starving for affection.

Men begging their wives, feeling rejected, neglected, and emasculated.

Something is wrong with the way people approach marriage. Most people are closed off and don't really open themselves up to their partners.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Couple, I agree with a lot in your post. I think a woman responds more lustily to a man who will seduce her to be more risqué in bed than to ask/beg/demand to have more sexual adventure. I believe that this topic applies mostly to men who don't or can't sweep a woman off her feet. I was lucky in my last 2 relationships. In both I was the mysterious guy that "conquered" territories. It would not surprise me if my last GF did things with me that she won't do with her H. But considering we were in college together, the setting plays a significant role along with age. With less responsibilities comes freedom to act more recklessly. While I think my charm helped, the college setting helped too. After this gf, when I started dating my wife I was still in college. I was also the guy from another state and was different than the other guys she dated. While charm IS important, timing and setting also helps a lot too.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

couple said:


> Why does it bother men so much when they know their wives have done sex acts with others that they will not do with them? Some observations:
> 
> 1. From reading on this board for years, it's clear that many or even most men are bothered or at least uncomfortable with their wife's sexual past. Many 'just don't want to know' and others push what they do know to the back of their minds to protect themselves. Finding out that they did something that they refuse with you just makes them feel even more humiliated and weaker. For many men it's already humiliating that other men have 'conquered' their wife but if they've 'conquered' certain parts of their sexuality that have remained untouched by them, it's even more humiliating. Teens and young adult men have been socialized to treat sexual conquests like a scorecard - some in more extreme ways than others but I think there is usually some aspect to sex as a scorecard among male youth. No other guy is supposed to have a higher 'score' with their wife than they have.
> 
> ...


I'm inclined to think that I wouldn't have gotten married to a woman whose panties didn't get soaking wet when I'm around , or who thought her past sexual escapades were better than any sex she could have with me in the present or ever have in the future.
I respect myself too much for that.

I've had lots of sex before I met my wife but I was her first.
There is nothing I have done in the past that I haven't done with her, and we've done quite a lot.
She's never had to ask, I shared and gave these experiences to her, and much more, because I wanted to experience them with her, in a new,different, exciting way.
If love and respect her, why should I deprive her of sexual experience that I know would blow her mind and tingle her spine?
That is what keeps her asking for more.

And yes, I had good sex in the past but she's is definitely the best sex I've ever had.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> How can you give her butterflies and make her wet when you aren't what she really wants sexually in the first place?


Well therein lies the problem in _that_ particular case.

Why would a man sign a legally binding contract to have sex with one particular woman only, for the rest of his life ,who isn't sexually attracted to him in the first place?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Anonymous Person said:


> They lack the ability to empathize with their partner in a meaningful way.


This is so true in many cases.
A lot if times selfishness , from both partners lies at the root of many relationship problems.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The Cro-Magnon said:


> No, they just lie about who and what they are, the way a used car salesman winds back the odometer on a clapped out car, in order to make the sale.
> 
> It isn't rocket science, these women have ridden the carousel, and have decided it is time to ensnare a beta-provider husband, so say/manipulate/lie-by-omission/ etc in order to rope their "husband" in.
> 
> ...


All due respect, you sound exactly like one of those 'burned men' I referred to in an earlier post.

We ain't gonna go backward bud. Women, for the most part now have the ability and right to self determination. They can build a career, or lead a country, give birth to and raise a child without ever involving a male. Or they can reject marriage just as easily as a man and live a fulfilling life with a string of long term relationships.

The end of marriage? I don't think so.

I do like to think that in the age of smart phones, the internet and instant information that we could collectively get our sh!t together and make marriage work ... tap the secret recipe for an expressive, fulfilling, loving, and joyful union with one person, for a lifetime.
I still would prefer that outcome to fingerpointing and lamenting the duplicity of the opposite sex.
Understand the terrain upon


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

A number of good points raised by CM and others in this thread too. Why indeed would a man or a woman settle for someone that does not sexually fulfill them or even give them butterflies? There is a lack of communication in situations like this. I think techmom was talking about how people try to hold on to pieces of themselves for fear of becoming codependent and too enmeshed in each other. I don't disagree with her claims that this happens, but I think it's bullsh!t when people do this to each other. I think people have become so hung up on trying to act "psychologically correct" that they completely miss out on what is or should be natural behavior. I would wager that most psychologists would analyze happily married couples who are 50 or 60 years into marriage and call them "enmeshed" or "codependent". If this is what I need to do to ensure that I get 50 to 60 years of marital bliss with my wife, then sign me up. 

But lets get real. All this pop-psychology that we have floating around us has distorted reality for us. We used to be told that we need to give ourselves over completely to our spouses, that two people will join to become one and that showing our vulnerabilities to our spouses allow us to connect on a deeper level. Now we are seeing all these airport books telling us how to "live more fully as individuals". Some of it good stuff until you dig deeper to find out that a lot of them are paranoid about codependency. Then you risk walling yourself off for fear of getting too "enmeshed" in someone else's life...

We know that a woman and a man are different in a number of ways. We also fall for the same problems. But I've found that if you want to get a woman to open up to you more physically, the man needs to open up more to her emotionally. I've put myself out there for my previous college GF and for my wife. Showing my true self, showing confidence and showing sensitivity were the keys I needed to unlock that deeper intimacy. I'm simplifying it to a large degree, but that's what worked for me.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

couple said:


> Why does it bother men so much when they know their wives have done sex acts with others that they will not do with them? Some observations:
> 
> 1. From reading on this board for years, it's clear that many or even most men are bothered or at least uncomfortable with their wife's sexual past. Many 'just don't want to know' and others push what they do know to the back of their minds to protect themselves. Finding out that they did something that they refuse with you just makes them feel even more humiliated and weaker. For many men it's already humiliating that other men have 'conquered' their wife but if they've 'conquered' certain parts of their sexuality that have remained untouched by them, it's even more humiliating. Teens and young adult men have been socialized to treat sexual conquests like a scorecard - some in more extreme ways than others but I think there is usually some aspect to sex as a scorecard among male youth. No other guy is supposed to have a higher 'score' with their wife than they have.
> 
> ...


A lot of men ARE aware of how women work in this regard, and understand the importance of "firsts" to women. They know they will never be able to occupy those spots in her memories, mind and heart. The more firsts that are gone through multiple partners and longevity in relationships, that leaves men with fewer and fewer "firsts" to conquer, to occupy that mind space, emotional space in a woman, so what is left if you can't have a first is "best". When a woman holds back, takes things off the table, it can come across like she is not even giving him the chance to be the best, let alone first.

I know I made this gender specific, but I am sure it applies to both genders.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Well therein lies the problem in _that_ particular case.
> 
> Why would a man sign a legally binding contract to have sex with one particular woman only, for the rest of his life ,who isn't sexually attracted to him in the first place?


For argument's sake, then, if the wife has an affair, the contract should be terminated?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> For argument's sake, then, if the wife has an affair, the contract should be terminated?


That's a decision the couple needs to make, but in most places in the United States, adultry is cause to allow an immediate divorce, or disolution of the marital contract.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings*



ScarletBegonias said:


> "well see little Emily,mommy liked to get freaky before she met daddy.When she was young and made poor choices.Then she met daddy and figured out who she was and didn't wanna get freaky anymore.Instead she wanted love making rather than gang bangs. Daddy didn't like that so he pitched a fit and spent the next few years making mommy feel like a wh*re. See? Now do you understand why you don't need to have premarital sex?"
> 
> uh,how about no.


So you are saying it's better to encourage your kids to sleep around. Hmmm. 

Or are you saying you think the conversation is not appropriate? I would think that it would be a topic for when they are much older. And it would be addressed much differently. Also chances are high they will one day ask the question also.

I just know lots of people whose parents taught them its ok just wear a condom etc. I think it makes things like this ops question come up in marrige. wouldn't the best solution be to have just saved your self for mariage in the first place?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> So you are saying it's better to encourage your kids to sleep around. Hmmm.
> 
> Or are you saying you think the conversation is not appropriate? I would think that it would be a topic for when they are much older. And it would be addressed much differently. Also chances are high they will one day ask the question also.
> 
> I just know lots of people whose parents taught them its ok just wear a condom etc. I think it makes things like this ops question come up in marrige. wouldn't the best solution be to have just saved your self for mariage in the first place?


I'm saying you should do your best to instill the morals you feel are important without dragging your child down with your own regrets,issues,and burdens. 
Telling them they can't or shouldn't do something bc you did it and regretted it is a surefire way to guarantee they go against what you're telling them.

I'd never tell my kid to save himself for marriage. For every feel good story on here about people who waited for marriage there's about 10 horror stories that come to mind. I feel telling him to wait would be setting him up for failure. I think it's much better for my son if he's taught to wait until he's in a committed and loving LTR relationship. I would hate it if my instruction to wait til marriage got my boy stuck in a sexless and sexually dysfunctional marriage.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> So you are saying it's better to encourage your kids to sleep around. Hmmm.
> 
> Or are you saying you think the conversation is not appropriate? I would think that it would be a topic for when they are much older. And it would be addressed much differently. Also chances are high they will one day ask the question also.
> 
> I just know lots of people whose parents taught them its ok just wear a condom etc. I think it makes things like this ops question come up in marrige. wouldn't the best solution be to have just saved your self for mariage in the first place?


I have to take note that this post is somehow very articulate and accent free whereas in your other thread it's very difficult to read and full many,many spelling/grammatical errors. Your other posts come through like you're typing as someone who has another first language other than English. But this post is perfectly clear.

What's up with that?


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings*



ScarletBegonias said:


> I have to take note that this post is somehow very articulate and accent free whereas in your other thread it's very difficult to read and full many,many spelling/grammatical errors. Your other posts come through like you're typing as someone who has another first language other than English. But this post is perfectly clear.
> 
> What's up with that?


Lol I use an app Tapatalk to post on tam with my phone. Some times I am in a hurry and don't go and check if it all came out right. Also I have a learning disability in English and can't figure out the word and spell check does not show me the right word so I try my best to guess and go with it. also some times I am in a hurry to reply so I try and get my point out with the least amount of words as I can lol


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> Lol I use an app Tapatalk to post on tam with my phone. Some times I am in a hurry and don't go and check if it all came out right. Also I have a learning disability in English and can't figure out the word and spell check does not show me the right word so I try my best to guess and go with it. also some times I am in a hurry to reply so I try and get my point out with the least amount of words as I can lol


Ah I see
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Regardless, an astute observation, SB


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Big Dude said:


> If I'm not the guy she wants to lay, then I don't want to stay. If she has to lie about the lay to make me stay, my marriage starts as a manipulation. Makes a man feel like a chump when he finds out.



A lot of marriages start off via manipulation. No surprise there.

On the other hand even cases of people who knew each other forever before getting married do not guarantee success either.

The root cause is somewhere in the middle. We see what our partner wants us to see, and also what we want to see, not what is out there to begin with.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

john117 said:


> A lot of marriages start off via manipulation. No surprise there.
> 
> On the other hand even cases of people who knew each other forever before getting married do not guarantee success either.
> 
> The root cause is somewhere in the middle. We see what our partner wants us to see, and also what we want to see, not what is out there to begin with.


Once we ferret out the root cause, then what's the corrective action? How do we know what we don't know? Or do we accept that there's risk, and either accept, mitigate or move it? 

Somewhat rhetorical questions in this case. I wish I knew what I don't know. And so many times in life I've said I wish I knew then what I know now.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings*



ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm saying you should do your best to instill the morals you feel are important without dragging your child down with your own regrets,issues,and burdens.
> Telling them they can't or shouldn't do something bc you did it and regretted it is a surefire way to guarantee they go against what you're telling them.
> 
> I'd never tell my kid to save himself for marriage. For every feel good story on here about people who waited for marriage there's about 10 horror stories that come to mind. I feel telling him to wait would be setting him up for failure. I think it's much better for my son if he's taught to wait until he's in a committed and loving LTR relationship. I would hate it if my instruction to wait til marriage got my boy stuck in a sexless and sexually dysfunctional marriage.


I just want to point out something. 

your saying you feel you need to tell your son to wait for a ltr instead of marriage because you feel you would be setting him up for failure based on the number of stories on this forume where people where abstinent before marriage and had problems in there marriage.

I think the idea your being impressed with on abstinence not working will be not correctly represented if your getting it based on what you read on this forum. that is because most of the people who come here are doing so to discuss there problems so people who are doing fine won't be on here.

I would also feel that the ones who are having sexless marriage and where abstinent are having these problems for other reasons and/or if they truly love each other could find a way to work through it.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> I just want to point out something.
> 
> your saying you feel you need to tell your son to wait for a ltr instead of marriage because you feel you would be setting him up for failure based on the number of stories on this forume where people where abstinent before marriage and had problems in there marriage.And other places.This forum was just my example.
> 
> ...


Teach your child what you want about abstaining.I'll teach my son what I feel he needs to know about sex and relationships.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings*



ScarletBegonias said:


> Teach your child what you want about abstaining.I'll teach my son what I feel he needs to know about sex and relationships.


fair enough. just having a discussion with you.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> fair enough. just having a discussion with you.


Of course.What else would we be doing? lol:scratchhead:


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

john117 said:


> A lot of marriages start off via manipulation. No surprise there.
> 
> On the other hand even cases of people who knew each other forever before getting married do not guarantee success either.


Couldn't agree more. But guaranteed success in marriage is an impossible standard. I don't think it follows that if guaranteed success is impossible, then an increased probability of success should not be aimed for. I think a world where potential spouses are sexually honest with each other would significantly increase the chances of marital success. Those on TAM who minimize the importance of such dishonesty, or who justify sexual dishonesty on the grounds that most men are childish slaves to their egos and can't handle the truth, are doing the cause of successful marriage harm.

I suspect that much pre-marriage manipulation is unintentional, a natural part of the dating process. But I think the misrepresentation of a woman's sexual desire for a prospective husband is usually fully intentional, and should be accounted for differently.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings*



ScarletBegonias said:


> Of course.What else would we be doing? lol:scratchhead:


Lol goodness, Chill out.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Deepdivered said:


> Lol goodness, Chill out.


huh? ok,now I'm confused. Did I flip out somewhere and missed it?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> huh? ok,now I'm confused. Did I flip out somewhere and missed it?


Yes


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Why indeed would a man or a woman settle for someone that does not sexually fulfill them or even give them butterflies?


Not picking on you, Plan 9, but I see this assumption made often in these threads, and I think it is a perspective that should be challenged.

Just because a woman has performed certain acts with past lovers that she doesn't want to perform with her hubby, that does not automatically mean she settled in any way for her hubby, and it does not automatically mean that her hubby didn't or doesn't give her butterflies or that she isn't sexually fulfilled.

It can simply mean she wasn't and isn't a big fan of those acts she tried in the past so she doesn't want to do them anymore. It can mean she used to be up for twisty-tied gymnastics when she was younger, but her body has changed and she just isn't up for being all twisty-tied now. It could mean those acts were a fantasy, but once she tried them, they lost their erotic appeal. It could mean she noticed how her relationships went to hell when she accepted butt sex and naked photos and as an option because then all he wanted was butt sex and naked photos and lost the emotional connection during sex. 

It could also mean that the sex with hubby blew all the past sex out of the water, and she saw how much she likes sex better with hubby. It could mean she deliberately chose him as hubby because, not only were there butterflies, but the sexual intimacy was so much deeper and more meaningful and more fulfilling and hotter in their sex life than some crappy butt sex from her past.

Just saying, the assumption that she settled is just that, an assumption and not necessarily her truth.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm saying you should do your best to instill the morals you feel are important without dragging your child down with your own regrets,issues,and burdens.
> *Telling them they can't or shouldn't do something bc you did it and regretted it is a surefire way to guarantee they go against what you're telling them.*


I disagree strongly.

My mother taught me the benefits of education because she didn't finish school.
I took her advice , learned from her experience, finished school, and today I own a business.

My mother warned me not to become the type of man she married , my father , who beat her , was a serial cheated and divorced and left her with four hungry mouths to feed.
Been married 18 years now , never hit my wife or cheated cheated , even though the opportunity often presented itself .
My mother took me shopping with her one day, and showed me drug addicts , eating out of dustbins on a particular street. I asked her why they were eating out of the trashcans, she told me that's what happens when you try drugs. I took her advice ,have never ever tried any drugs.

In fact ,one of the most important lessons my mother ever taught me was;
" _Stupid people must burn to learn. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes_."

I've done pro bono work in our country's juvenile prison system , where I taught kids under 18, some as young as 8 , 9 and 10 who belonged to gangs, murdered people , beat their parents and committed robbery with violence.
One of the saddest things I've ever heard was from a 14 yr old who was on trial for murder.
he said to me;
" _Sir, I wish my mother had told me those things you're telling me. Then I would've never been locked up here today._."

The fellow was never shown consequences. So he never connected the dots between his choices, and possible outcomes .
His father was also imprisoned on death row in the adult prison,
For murder.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Ah I see
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

doubletrouble said:


> For argument's sake, then, if the wife has an affair, the contract should be terminated?


The contract provides for that, doesn't it?
But ultimately , the plaintiff can decide to divorce or settle amicably [ reconcile].


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

norajane said:


> Not picking on you, Plan 9, but I see this assumption made often in these threads, and I think it is a perspective that should be challenged.
> 
> Just because a woman has performed certain acts with past lovers that she doesn't want to perform with her hubby, that does not automatically mean she settled in any way for her hubby, and it does not automatically mean that her hubby didn't or doesn't give her butterflies or that she isn't sexually fulfilled.
> 
> ...


I think that it's best that a man be extremely careful before saying " I do " to any woman.
I'll suggest the exact same thing to any woman before she commits in marriage to any man.

Never leave things up to chance, especially when the evidence is right before your eyes.

A woman gets married to a man who's an alcoholic, the possibility is high that he will abuse and physically beat her. It doesn't matter what his intentions are, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and a scorpion stings because it is a scorpion.

A man gets married to a woman who's not sexually attracted to him, the possibility is extremely high that the marriage would be sexless.

Marry someone who respects you enough to want to please you in every way.
Ultimately,actions always speak louder than words.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> That's a decision the couple needs to make, but in most places in the United States, adultry is cause to allow an immediate divorce, or disolution of the marital contract.


Actually the vast majority of states in the US are no-fault states so you don't have to prove fault anymore (i.e. adultery) to divorce. You can file a divorce without proving the other spouse did something wrong.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> Actually the vast majority of states in the US are no-fault states so you don't have to prove fault anymore (i.e. adultery) to divorce. You can file a divorce without proving the other spouse did something wrong.


Correct, most are no fault. You can file, but most states have a mandatory separation period when no fault is claimed. If fault is claimed, the separation period is usually waived, and infidelity is still an at fault cause pretty much everywhere. This is why I used the word "immediate" in what you quoted.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

norajane said:


> Not picking on you, Plan 9, but I see this assumption made often in these threads, and I think it is a perspective that should be challenged.
> 
> Just because a woman has performed certain acts with past lovers that she doesn't want to perform with her hubby, that does not automatically mean she settled in any way for her hubby, and it does not automatically mean that her hubby didn't or doesn't give her butterflies or that she isn't sexually fulfilled.
> 
> ...


I understand where you are coming from. I also agree that you cannot assume that taking certain acts off the table always means no chemistry. That's why it's preferable to have honest communication about expectations, fears and concerns up front. Approaching relationships where you need to keep the phrase caveat emptor in mind sucks. While I am a firm believer in open and honest communication, I also believe a number of people are too gullible when dating and tend to get "surprised" later on. 

Your points for why women take activities off the table for their husbands are valid. There are multiple reasons why this can happen. I also believe timing and environment play a role too.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I disagree strongly.
> 
> My mother taught me the benefits of education because she didn't finish school.
> I took her advice , learned from her experience, finished school, and today I own a business.
> ...


Ok I appreciate the input. On the abstinence issue though I'm still sticking w my original plan for what I will and won't tell my son. But your story was definitely a nice lesson for parents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> *That's why it's preferable to have honest communication about expectations, fears and concerns up front.*


And right there^^^is the only sane solution to avoid this dilemma.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings*



Caribbean Man said:


> And right there^^^is the only sane solution to avoid this dilemma.


my wife and I waited till we where married to have sex with each other and yes we discused the topic before hand. worked for use. but I did honestly have a hard time at first knowing she was not a vergin. she regreted it and stoped doing that with bf's befor we got married. but I knew some of the guys she slepped with and would have movies in my minde of them being in my place when I mad love with her some times the first year. I knew she repented of that stuff and I needed to let it go. I went to a counsiler and he helped me get over that hurdle. I also found this site and read some of the others simulor stories on here. it does not bother me at all now.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Deepdivered said:


> This topic just goes to show how the old fashion idea of saving your self for marriage may just be a good idea. Some thing to keep in minde when you teach your kids and what you can tell them was a consequence of not doing so your self.


I saved myself for marriage and it worked for me. My wife did also, am hoping she'd say things worked out well for her. My daughter did the same, so far her marriage is intact and fulfilling. My son saved himself for marriage; he married a psychopath and had a child with her.

I respect the idea you espouse and used to believe this. But in particular if you read the stories on these boards, I think one has to do everything they can to know who it is they are marrying. It's crazy to see myself writing these words but........I now think people need to live together first to gain that kind of comfort/confidence. It's not just the sexual connection that needs to be tested - it's their entire 'connection that has to be put to the test.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Okay...
> 
> But why?
> 
> That is the mystery.


There isn't any mystery. Sex can either be a weapon of warfare with a spouse or a team effort. 

OP is really an exercise in futility, asking why we feel bad when our spouse is using sex as a weapon to put us down. It's like asking why it hurts when they shoot us in the stomach. The real issue is why they are making war on us. 

Insofar as the "do as I say and not as I did" argument, there is almost nothing about yourself that you can't change. If you don't have a high school diploma then get your GED while the kids watch you study or if you drank too much then just stop drinking now. What the kids watch is your current behavior and judge accordingly.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Gomerpyle said:


> There isn't any mystery. Sex can either be a weapon of warfare with a spouse or a team effort.
> 
> OP is really an exercise in futility, asking why we feel bad when our spouse is using sex as a weapon to put us down. It's like asking why it hurts when they shoot us in the stomach. The real issue is why they are making war on us.
> 
> Insofar as the "do as I say and not as I did" argument, there is almost nothing about yourself that you can't change. If you don't have a high school diploma then get your GED while the kids watch you study or if you drank too much then just stop drinking now. What the kids watch is your current behavior and judge accordingly.


I don't think this is an exercise in futility. Your gunshot analogy only works if your hypothesis is correct and women are waging war on men when it comes to sex. I don't think all women are using sex in this way.


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I don't think this is an exercise in futility. Your gunshot analogy only works if your hypothesis is correct and women are waging war on men when it comes to sex. I don't think all women are using sex in this way.


No problem if you disagree. 

When a person sees the damage they are doing to their spouse, then repeating the behavior day after day after day for thousands upon thousands of days then you are pretty naiive to be calling this anything but on purpose. You don't accidentally shoot them in the stomach for the ten thousandth time. 

Nobody disagrees that for a small minority of cases there is a hormonal issue or even a paralyzing accident. But we aren't talking about those cases.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> I'm inclined to think that I wouldn't have gotten married to a woman whose panties didn't get soaking wet when I'm around , or who thought her past sexual escapades were better than any sex she could have with me in the present or ever have in the future.
> I respect myself too much for that.
> 
> I've had lots of sex before I met my wife but I was her first.
> ...


As a husband, you can get your wife's 'panties soaking wet' and she can still have had a past sex life full of memories and feelings that a husband simply can't eclipse. You can't get a woman to forget all of her sexual memories simply by 'being her best', nor should a man attempt to do this. It's pure fantasy.

You say that as a man you've done everything with your wife that you've done with others - presumably you're talking about a 'check-list' of physical acts. I am talking about moving this beyond a check-list of activities because a woman's mind generally does not characterize her sex life in terms of a check-list of activities. We miss the point if we think that we just need to check off all of the activities she's done with others and then we can occupy all of her sexual mind-space. It's much more complicated than that.

For men, marrying a virgin is much less common than a couple of generations ago so as a coping mechanism, we've held onto a fantasy that if only we can 'be her best ever' we can completely 'own' her sexuality. All the other guys won't matter and her memories will be erased as long as we can be better than them and ensure that each act she did with other guys is replicated and done BETTER. In other words, the idea is that (excuse my crudeness) a man can F--- the sexual past out of his wife. This is pure fantasy. This also helps answer the OP's question as you can't F--- the past out of your wife completely if she's done things with others that you can't get.

Women will also help perpetuate the fantasy that a man can F--- the past out of them to give them a near status of their 'first'. If sexual history comes up and she sees some hurt or concern in his eyes, she will often say, "Yes, I've been with other guys but none compare to you. You are the best. I've forgotten about all of them because of you." She may not be lying about you being the best but my point is that it's not only about being the best. Being the best does not erase her sexual past and it does not mean that she has not felt things with others that will remain burned into her mind. And this does not mean that these other guys were 'better'. 

I still remember the joys of cruising around carefree in the first couple of cars that I owned. I was young and there were few things more exciting than getting into the car and going for a drive - the feeling of freedom, excitement, anticipation and pride are forever in my mind. I have a much better car today. It can do everything that my first car could do and much better. Even if I were to trade my current car in for one of the world's finest, fastest, and most exciting cars, I still will not be able to replicate the feeling of getting into my first car as a young man and taking it out for a spin. Having better and better cars over the years made me see some of the weaknesses in my first cars - they were quirky, some things were permanently broken on them, they weren't reliable, efficient or particularly smooth and powerful. Also, as a driver my lack of skill created some awkward moments. Sometimes I think back on those cars and wonder how I ever managed to drive them and how lucky I am to have a much better car today. However, despite how much better my current car is, it has not eclipsed the memories of the first few cars I've had, nor can I replicate how these cars made me feel when I got behind the wheel. Of course, simply driving cars today like my first few cannot replicate that feeling either because the feeling was FROM A UNIQUE TIME IN MY LIFE THAT IS OVER. It doesn't mean I can't have driving excitement today. It also doesn't mean that today's driving 'excitement' will be less exciting. I might even periodically get some 'deja vu' feelings of the kind of excitement I had driving those first cars as a young man but it won't be the same. Things have moved on with life and it's just different now. It's not worth focusing on whether it's better or worse today, we can just accept that it's different.

From my observation, women's sexual mind-space is occupied by feelings associated with sexual experiences. Men are concerned with the 'specifications' - what acts and how 'good' were the acts performed. Raising the level of specification can only go so far in downgrading or eclipsing the feelings that she felt.

The answer is that we need to learn to co-exist with her sexual memories/history and not try to compete and eradicate it as this is futile.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

I love the old car analogy! Made me think about my first car, a beautiful but impractical (even for those days) muscle car that was much more fun to drive than my current practical, emissions friendly, fuel efficient, modern car. I can't imagine driving my old car today to the grocery store or doctor's office.

But if I saw one on Craigslist, I would buy it at the drop of a hat, just to keep in the driveway, lovingly buff it, and drive it when I could arrange some "me time." Ah, but it's just the stuff of fantasy, I know I'll never actually do something as impractical as that!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

couple said:


> From my observation, women's sexual mind-space is occupied by feelings associated with sexual experiences. Men are concerned with the 'specifications' - what acts and how 'good' were the acts performed. Raising the level of specification can only go so far in downgrading or eclipsing the feelings that she felt.
> 
> The answer is that we need to learn to co-exist with her sexual memories/history and not try to compete and eradicate it as this is futile.


To me , your line of argument seems exiguous and frames men as emotionally inferior.
I couldn't disagree more with such a lopsided, deficient,depreciating view of male sexuality in intimate relationships.
From my experience, you are dead wrong.
Men are fully capable of having deep emotional connections to the sexual experiences they share with their partners and many of them actually place high emotional value on the intimacy of sexual relationships they have with the women they value.

In fact, I don't think any woman would want a husband who wasn't capable of connecting with her on that level during sex , her sex toys would easily replace him.

Also, if men weren't able to connect emotionally as suggested then infidelity would have absolutely no psychosexual effect on men and their ability to have normal sexual relations post infidelity.

The reality is, 
Both men and women are highly capable of connecting and attaching deep emotional value to sexual intimacy.
They just do it in _different_ ways which adds value to the relationship , and complement each other


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> To me , your line of argument seems exiguous and frames men as emotionally inferior.
> I couldn't disagree more with such a lopsided, deficient,depreciating view of male sexuality in intimate relationships.
> From my experience, you are dead wrong.
> Men are fully capable of having deep emotional connections to the sexual experiences they share with their partners and many of them actually place high emotional value on the intimacy of sexual relationships they have with the women they value.
> ...


I never said that men don't experience or seek to experience real intimacy with women - related or unrelated to sex. I'm not sure where you got that from my posts and I agree with what you say above about male intimacy and emotional connection.

What I said was that when thinking about their wives' sexual histories, men will often take a scorecard approach to what their wives did with other men and how they measure up. This simplistic approach misleads men to thinking that they can eradicate or relegate her sexual history by simply performing better across all acts that she's done with others.

I never said, nor do I believe that in general men view their wives/partners as just a sexual scorecard!


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Well therein lies the problem in _that_ particular case.
> 
> Why would a man sign a legally binding contract to have sex with one particular woman only, for the rest of his life ,who isn't sexually attracted to him in the first place?


They don't do it knowingly. It's called 'bait and switch.' She pretends to get him hooked and then doesn't have to keep it up once he's landed.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings*



nuclearnightmare said:


> I saved myself for marriage and it worked for me. My wife did also, am hoping she'd say things worked out well for her. My daughter did the same, so far her marriage is intact and fulfilling. My son saved himself for marriage; he married a psychopath and had a child with her.
> 
> I respect the idea you espouse and used to believe this. But in particular if you read the stories on these boards, I think one has to do everything they can to know who it is they are marrying. It's crazy to see myself writing these words but........I now think people need to live together first to gain that kind of comfort/confidence. It's not just the sexual connection that needs to be tested - it's their entire 'connection that has to be put to the test.


I am a mormom. I don't know how much you all know about the church of jesus christ of laterday saints but they are a very family oriented church and group of people. they are very pro save your self for marriage and old fashion concepts about courting your soon to be wife. which are long courtship, short engagement, and no living together first. I know many people at church who this plan worked for and they have had long loving marriages with each other. 

my point in saying that is well my mom is the middle of 13 kids. I have many ants and uncles and cousins. I believe the number of my grand mothers posterity is 140 people now that we are in to the 3rd generation. I would say about 98% of them all followed the churches standards on saving your self for marriage, long courtship, and short engagement. out of them all there has been only 5 couples who have had a devours. out of the 5 three of them did not fallow the churches standards before getting married.

so basically I do not agree that you have to live with some one and have sex before you get married for it to work. if your are truly in love with each other and truly care for the other person and they truly care for you then you can make your marriage work. 

some times I think some people get married cuss they want to be married and they don't want to be alone. that is not going to work cuss u do not have love and when you have a bump in the road you do not have that love for the other person to help you work together and get through it. 

lastly I believe having a common faith really helps. by saying that I mean marry in your same faith. yes another old fashioned idea lol. when you go to church together and you both are working to strengthen you faith in christ and be closer to him and become more christ like. I think that also draws you two together and makes your relationship stronger and more charitable.


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## justbeingme (Dec 28, 2013)

I'm not sure if this has been discussed in this thread (if so, please let me know).

But what if your wife is no longer willing to do things with you that she used to do.

I'm not talking about what she did with old boyfriends. I'm really talking about stuff we did together only a few years ago, that she's now taken off the table.

It's little things, not big things. Not stuff like threesomes or swapping. Just things like "swallowing" or different positions, or doing it in a different room in the house, or even just oral once in a while.

I know she feels self-conscious. Hell, we all do at times. I make sure I praise her beauty every day. I let her know I find her sexier now, after almost 10 years of marriage, than ever. I try to stay as attractive as possible for her too...I keep my bodyfat very low and workout very hard, which is paying off now that I'm nearing 40 and there aren't many guys out there who look like I do (not trying to brag, just painting a picture).

I try to do all the things in bed that I know she likes, try to be patient, lots of foreplay, lots of massages, oral for her, candles and wine, etc...

But she's just slowly but surely taking things off the table that I used to (and still) really like. And now there's very little time for me. We'll start in, she'll have an orgasm in the first 2-3 minutes, flop back, and say "ok, your turn, I'm done!". It's actually starting to get a little dull and predictable - almost 10 times out of 10, I get the "I came too quick hubby, hurry up and finish" speech. And I wish she was faking about the orgasm thing, so I could call her on the faking, but she's not. She genuinely just "goes", and then quits on me. When I ask her if she's happy and satisfied, she honestly tells me she is (and I really do believe her). 

Any tips to get her to try acting like she's 25 again with me? We're not that old, and I'm not ready to have sex 2x/month (what she wants) for 5 minutes per session in the missionary position every time.

I married a girl who was a lot more uninhibited. Any experiences you guys have with getting your wife to break out of her shell are appreciated. I'll try anything.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> For me it would be:
> 
> "Feeling rejected because you are refused these experiences with your wife. It drives you mad that someone knows your wife better than you. Also, you equate what she will and won't do in the bedroom with you directly to how much physical attraction she has for you."
> 
> ...



What if you persuaded her but the next night she was jumping all over you demanding some more of that 'up her butt, swinging from the chandelier, porn star, animal planet freaky monkey sex' as it turned her on so much? Would that convince you?

And in the thread that this thread references, people are given very little to go on.
The OP of that thread posts hints and clues without saying exactly what she said etc etc.

I think practically everyone agrees that multiple partners are out. But even looking at the question of anal sex, is it not possible that her ex had a smaller sized penis and the OP is considerably larger?
I'm no great expert on sex but I can imagine that there is a world of difference between a small penis up there and a large one, to the point of even causing physical trauma.

What if she tried those things, enjoyed them but was hurt by them?


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Ex-Sap said:


> All this talk about "right" and "rights" is not helpful. Your identity is what counts in a love affair or marriage. And if you want something, you want it, and if you have a need, you need it. That you have a "right" is meaningless in a love relationship.
> 
> Intimacy is what counts. It is the chief value. Being close.
> 
> ...


Agreed.

Love the last thing you said.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I found this thread unsettling ... .the 1st thing I want to say is... I think Caribbean Man is a class act.... every post he put on here... full of wisdom, understanding...

Really...who in the hell doesn't want to BE their Lover's BEST...the highest excitement in all things ...places, acts, emotion...thrill...Shouldn't the Husband / the wife have this ?? 



> *Deeojo said*: *I can't understand why a woman wouldn't be open about her past, any more than I can understand a guy who loves her but would hold it against her, or hold it over her head.
> 
> To me, both views are equally ... misguided.
> 
> If a virtuous man insists on being partnered with a virtuous woman, so be it. I never had this requirement, nor do I much understand it*.


 Some deeply desire to be the "one & only" ... misguided and foolish as others want to paint that... we don't feel it was.... For my own marriage.. this fact alone carries us, uplifts us.... leads us back to each other....it very deep and meaningful to some of us.... I think all young women want this - until she gets burned by a cheating BF who just wanted to stick it in....then this slips away like a butterfly and it's gone... reality sets in... men don't love like that.. True Romance...just a dream.. or is it? We give it away far too quickly...for those who DO CARE, that is...



> *PLan 9 from OS said:** I'm blessed in that I will not feel any of these types of feelings because I've done everything I've wanted to do with a previous girlfriend as well as with my wife*. I've never did any swapping, orgies, threesomes, gangbangs, cuckold fantasies nor engaged in any sex acts involving feces or urine. Everything else I've done with two other women (not at the same time!). *The reason why I included a little snippet about myself here is because I believe that my past experiences will help me with any future relationships if I ever have to go back into the dating scene due to death of my spouse or divorce.* I'm happily married so I don't anticipate a divorce. However, if I do have to date and end up with another woman who won't do the same things for me sexually than she did in her past, I don't know if I would feel bent out of shape about it. Since I would have experienced a good variety of intimacy, I think the idea of "being there and doing that" would insulate me from a lot of the pain.


So the remedy for other men.. sow your wild oats young man and sow them HOT -banging, experience it ALL before you walk down the aisle...hanging from the chandeliers, fork her over the toilet seat in a public place while you're at it - so you won't be plagued by this in the future ?? That's what I get from your post...

So women like me would have even a harder time finding the men who aren't in her pants by the 3rd date or who believed in waiting till marriage....all we need is more ONS Romeos.....

My husband wouldn't want to know anything if I had previous lovers and did other things, it would HURT him to think on those things, though he is NOT OCD (as they say many who struggle with retroactive jealousy IS).... but he's told me a # of times it wouldn't have been the same ....he cared *a great deal *how a woman handles herself sexually & What the act meant to her... Very old fashioned is he. Love & adore him for that.. 

Me...I'm different.... I'd want to know and pry every freaking Detail of the ex lovers..... where , when, who..how she moaned...how often...I could easily see me wanting to UP anything & everything he had experience previously...though I don't think a man would mind that...

And (on my end.. this could have been very bad)....Had I slept with other men, I know me well enough to know this.... I'd mentally COMPARE... would that have been good for my future husband... Hell NO! ....

Plus I LOVE looking back.. old memories.. .old photos... Even today I do this.. .A LOT.... I would probably relive all those Hot summer nights with a 1st love... Can I say.. for some of us ....it's a blessing to wait for 1 special person..such things could have plagued me and I drug them into our marriage bed. 

All the issues on this thread.. .it's not part of our experience at all... I think I would have Fvcked my life up good had I been WILD in my past... I would have been rejected by the type of men I deeply wanted for one (the die hard Romantics)... and be stuck with a slew of "sleep arounds" that don't find commitment or marriage all that desirable. 

No.. give me the Man who wants to experience his wife's 1st's...her best...her deepest emotionally and physically...he wants to be KING in her world with no comparisons before him...and loved like no other..

If a man didn't care about that sort of thing, he wouldn't even be compatible with someone like myself who so wanted to GIVE him Everything. Worthy of that wait. 

The only thing my husband has to compete with is my Fantasies.. he can live with that....



Caribbean Man said:


> My mother warned me not to become the type of man she married , my father , who beat her , was a serial cheated and divorced and left her with four hungry mouths to feed.
> Been married 18 years now , never hit my wife or cheated cheated , even though the opportunity often presented itself .
> *My mother took me shopping with her one day, and showed me drug addicts , eating out of dustbins on a particular street. I asked her why they were eating out of the trashcans, she told me that's what happens when you try drugs. I took her advice ,have never ever tried any drugs.*
> 
> ...


 As you learned from your Fathers mistakes, I learned from my Mothers... Good for you CB ! :smthumbup:


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Some deeply desire to be the "one & only" ... misguided and foolish as others want to paint that... we don't feel it was.... For my own marriage.. this fact alone carries us, uplifts us.... leads us back to each other....it very deep and meaningful to some of us.... I think all young women want this - until she gets burned by a cheating BF who just wanted to stick it in....then this slips away like a butterfly and it's gone... reality sets in... men don't love like that.. True Romance...just a dream.. or is it? We give it away far too quickly...for those who DO CARE, that is...


To be clear SA, my 'miguided' statement was specifically in regards to women who choose to deceive the 'man of their dreams' to appear more virtuous, or those men who insist on honesty from the woman they love, and then when they get it, they beat her over the head and shame her with it.

To me, that behavior doesn't serve anyone's interest.

So are you saying that you wouldn't have married your husband if he had been sexual with someone prior to you? Honestly I'd find that surprising. I don't think sex changes who someone is.


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## 12345Person (Dec 8, 2013)

Deejo said:


> To be clear SA, my 'miguided' statement was specifically in regards to women who choose to deceive the 'man of their dreams' to appear more virtuous, or those men who insist on honesty from the woman they love, and then when they get it, they beat her over the head and shame her with it.
> 
> To me, that behavior doesn't serve anyone's interest.
> 
> So are you saying that you wouldn't have married your husband if he had been sexual with someone prior to you? Honestly I'd find that surprising. I don't think sex changes who someone is.


But some people take value in being "firsts".

I'm not one, but I can see the benefits of it.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Anonymous Person said:


> But some people take value in being "firsts".
> 
> I'm not one, but I can see the benefits of it.


If something is important to someone, I have no desire to diminish that importance.

Under that premise I suppose it is all the easier to see why people freak out when they learn years later that their supposedly virtuous husband or wife, in truth ... wasn't. 

I think everyone smiles at the story of high school sweethearts who marry and build an unshakeable bond even 20 years on. Hell, that's why I'm such a fan of Simply Amorous' marriage.

I don't think waiting to have sex is wrong any more than I think having as much sex as you can before settling down is right.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Anonymous Person said:


> But some people take value in being "firsts".
> 
> I'm not one, but I can see the benefits of it.


I was a virgin when I met my now wife at age 18. I'd done pretty much everything but PiV, though I would not have described myself as having a lot of experience. She had (at least) 3 previous lovers. It wasn't my plan to marry a virgin or to only ever have sex with one woman. 

For me, sex is something special with my wife because it is an aspect of myself I only share with her. For me, it is "our thing", as compared to something we've both done with a bunch of other people. For her, it is just sex, and I'm just another guy. She has pretty much said so, in fact.

While I never felt happy she had other lovers, I did envy her for the experiences she had, and I was happy about her seemingly being uninhibited. I really did think about the stories of men not having sex after the wedding and thought my wife's past and our experiences as a couple meant we would have a good sex life after the wedding.

I do not look forward to sex only being sex if I move on from this marriage.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Deejo said:


> *To be clear SA, my 'miguided' statement was specifically in regards to women who choose to deceive the 'man of their dreams' to appear more virtuous, or those men who insist on honesty from the woman they love, and then when they get it, they beat her over the head and shame her with it.
> 
> To me, that behavior doesn't serve anyone's interest*.


 I don't think any of us should hide who we are, any rug sweeping... ..when preparing to commit ourselves to a life with another.... to be fully and emotionally* accepted* by another ....is to be *brave enough* to show & share ourselves FULLY ...this includes a good measure of the where & what we have came from, our experiences is a part of that package... the good, the bad, the ugly...

When sex is so important that people have the marital RIGHT to divorce over it's betrayal.... how in the world do we justify that it is like nothing before we get married... this will never make sense to me....I can't rationalize it...or dump it as such a small unimportant thing.

So many here make a big hoopla how they need to "Test drive" before they get married... heaven forbid ....unless the man is as big as a 9 inch cucumber and she is a size 1 petite, it's gonna fit - she'll just need reamed out more... But they conveniently leave the rest at the door. 

I just don't get it. Too often it comes back to bite...in one way or another. To each their own. 

But I agree with you.. when we do share openly / vulnerably ...and ACCEPTANCE has gone forth. (this may take some time/ heartfelt communication).....the man has EMBRACED her for who she is , where she has been, taken her hand in marriage... ....that mountain has already been climbed ...he has NO right to throw it back in her face, this would be a betrayal on his part... 

Life is a Risk, if we drink & drive, we take risks, if we choose a wild party girl lifestyle in our youth...this too has it's risks ...for how a future man we fancy might feel about that...he still has the right to know...and reject. Though most won't -feeling they can overcome it. That's the reality. Some struggle badly. 



> *Deejo said:* *So are you saying that you wouldn't have married your husband if he had been sexual with someone prior to you? Honestly I'd find that surprising. I don't think sex changes who someone is.*


 If he slept with anything that moved, I would not have wanted anything to do with him. If he was in love /committed when he slept with someone -I find this honorable....so long as he was over her..and I meant more... Would never be an issue. 
I feel how we view







& handle ourselves ..these things do speak to what the act means to us personally.... our values, our beliefs...and this is a compatibility issue just like many other things... which can cause friction down the road...when one thinks "Just get over it already!" and the other thinks "didn't that MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?". 

I don't, however, feel a person's past DEFINES anyone... as these views can change, we can learn from our experiences & change course...why the deep sharing is *so telling* to where we are TODAY...sometimes one can even be a great influence on the other.. .like CB's wife was as his devoted friend...then it turned to something so much more... Love their story....:thumbup:

I've said it many times .... I wanted an inexperienced male...so we could wade through all the sweet awkwardness & high emotions together ...I didn't see sex as just a right of passage -something to hurry & get it over with so I could gain experience...It's been suggested to me that 1st time sex is as important as "having a period'...nothing more. I don't think like that. 



> *Anonymous Person said*: *But some people take value in being "firsts".
> 
> I'm not one, but I can see the benefits of it.*











for what you say here...even though it is not your cup of Java
....you can still acknowledge the benefits for those who care about such things. 



> *Deejo said*: *If something is important to someone, I have no desire to diminish that importance*.










... I feel many DO though.. I've been on the receiving end of plenty of that here...subtle and not so subtle belittling of the older fashioned views.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I don't think sex changes who someone is.


And that's why I decided to continue dating my wife even when she said no to sex before marriage.
She was a beautiful person and an awesome friend to me. In my mind and consciousness , I knew it would be worth the wait.

If choosing to have sex doesn't change who someone is then how does choosing not to have sex change them or make them freaks?

I like gold, but no longer wear jewelry . Doesn't mean that I'm odd , cheap or poor, I just _choose_ to spend my hard earned money in ways that can that actually benefit me. Lol, I've even invested money in solid gold, makes no sense to me , wearing it. It is way more valuable that way,
_To me._

So it comes down to how people view sex.

Whether we believe it's just a physical act or whether we attach sentimental value to it, I firmly believe that the sex you have with the person you got married to is supposed to be the best sex in both of your minds.

Human beings have the unique capacity to rewrite history so that it's congruous with their present reality. Hence the term " best sex" is relative, and a function of their present consciousness.

If your spouses " best sex" is continually in the past with a particular lover , and they think that it can never be eclipsed, then logically , it might be that they're just not _that_ into you.


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## Deepdivered (Dec 14, 2011)

*Re: Re: Uninhibited in her past, but inhibited with you - Feelings*



SimplyAmorous said:


> I found this thread unsettling ... .the 1st thing I want to say is... I think Caribbean Man is a class act.... every post he put on here... full of wisdom, understanding...
> 
> Really...who in the hell doesn't want to BE their Lover's BEST...the highest excitement in all things ...places, acts, emotion...thrill...Shouldn't the Husband / the wife have this ??
> 
> ...


I loved your post. I think your saying a lot of the things I think also. thanks for shearing.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

The only other sex my W had that has ever bothered me was when she cheated. Other than that, I don't really want to know about it. I know more than I want already. 

I know she wasn't a virgin, and I'm OK with that. Neither was I. I've only ever had one virgin in my love life, out of probably a couple dozen lovers. So I'm not hung up on it. 

But cheating sex, that bothers the hell out of me.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> What if you persuaded her but the next night she was jumping all over you demanding some more of that 'up her butt, swinging from the chandelier, porn star, animal planet freaky monkey sex' as it turned her on so much? Would that convince you?
> 
> And in the thread that this thread references, people are given very little to go on.
> The OP of that thread posts hints and clues without saying exactly what she said etc etc.
> ...


If we're talking anal and she explained that although it felt good at the time, it caused some trauma or pain after the fact, then yeah I understand why she wouldn't want to do that. 

The problem I'd have is once she showed reluctance to do something I wouldn't try to persuade her. It would just be a tick in the "You're Not As Good" category. It would never get to the point of "the next night she was jumping all over you demanding some more of that 'up her butt, swinging from the chandelier, porn star, animal planet freaky monkey sex' as it turned her on so much?" I would either accept it if I could (not likely) or it would eat away a little of the relationship planting seeds of being settled for. 

And I know this all stems from my RJ/insecurity, but I just don't think it would be something I could handle.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I found this thread unsettling
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SA, I'm sorry if I upset you. It wasn't my intent. My post was not meant to be a one size fits all solution for all men. I was talking about myself and how I might deal with a situation like that if it would ever arise for me. My guess is that other men may feel the same. Then again, others would not. I think it's great if two virgins can come together and make a great marriage that is full of passion, love and mutual respect. It sounds like you and your H were able to do that. I guess I was a product of the times when I grew up. I was taught about abstinence and waiting for the special someone to come along. Then I went to college and ended up having sex before marriage with someone I did not end up marrying. 

Overall, I'm happy with my life experiences. Speaking for myself only, I feel that my prior experiences would help me to feel less inclined to have a sex "bucket list" if I ever had to find someone else after my wife. Again, this is based on me and me alone. I believe that there are some men who fall into a category where they saved themselves for their spouse (based on religion, morality, shyness...who knows why) and have later found out that their wife is not who they thought they were and have done sex acts with others that were off limits to them. How would they react? I speculate every man in a situation like that would react differently. Some may be fine with it, others may feel upset since they assumed that their wife would want to help them fulfill sexual fantasies at least one time, and they are hurt by that. Others may feel inadequate because they don't measure up to a prior lover. There is no one standard reaction to this. My point was given my prior experiences, I probably wouldn't be as hurt by it since I've had prior experiences that were fun. JMHO.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

WyshIknew said:


> But even looking at the question of anal sex, is it not possible that her ex had a smaller sized penis and the OP is considerably larger?
> I'm no great expert on sex but I can imagine that there is a world of difference between a small penis up there and a large one, to the point of even causing physical trauma.


I worked with a gal that commented that her new husband was well endowed, and that meant that PIV felt great, but BJ's would be less often and anal was totally out. She said she'd taken a large guy ONCE and was never doing it again with a big guy but she did like it with a skinny member.

If my wife and I ever split, I ruined that for any future guy :rofl:

I think if a woman explained it EXACTLY like that, a guy would be more understanding.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> I worked with a gal that commented that her new husband was well endowed, and that meant that PIV felt great, but BJ's would be less often and anal was totally out. She said she'd taken a large guy ONCE and was never doing it again with a big guy but she did like it with a skinny member.
> 
> If my wife and I ever split, I ruined that for any future guy :rofl:


Unless you are the biggest man in the world,no matter how big you are there is someone larger 




larry.gray said:


> I think if a woman explained it EXACTLY like that, a guy would be more understanding.


Yes, a larger man tool is not always a better thing. As you see it can remove options from the menu.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Unless you are the biggest man in the world,no matter how big you are there is someone larger


No doubt. As a grower and not a show-er I've always been a bit self conscious. Once I realized that I'm actually quite well towards the large size, especially on girth that I've become more confident in it.



treyvion said:


> Yes, a larger man tool is not always a better thing. As you see it can remove options from the menu.


Yep, tell me about it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> No doubt. As a grower and not a show-er I've always been a bit self conscious. Once I realized that I'm actually quite well towards the large size, especially on girth that I've become more confident in it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, tell me about it.


Im familiar with growers. Some size queens will ding you heavily for the modest flaccid and not allow it to become erect. It does feel great to know you are to the right of the bell curve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Im familiar with growers. Some size queens will ding you heavily for the modest flaccid and not allow it to become erect. It does feel great to know you are to the right of the bell curve.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmmm, I don't think my wife ever saw it exposed and flaccid for at least a year after seeing it hard.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

larry.gray said:


> Hmmm, I don't think my wife ever saw it exposed and flaccid for at least a year after seeing it hard.


Well I'm sure your new wife has seen you in all your flaccid penis glory.

A size queen who came around only for the sex would have likely attempted to shred your ego and masculinity when she see's the modest flaccid. You could always say "well why don't you wake it up and see how big it gets".

She could decide she doesn't want to play and say some other direct shot corrosive comments to shrivel you back into your body. 

I'm a grower too.


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## CouldItBeSo (Mar 11, 2013)




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