# Normal guys with no relationship



## southbound

I’m sure the question of “what do women want” has been asked a thousand different ways, but I have a question that has always intrigued me. Have any of you ladies ever known a guy who seemed normal, but just never could seem to have any luck with the women. He’s good looking enough, he has a decent job, and everything seems in the normal zone, but women don’t seem to gravitate to him. I’m asking this because from a guy looking at another guy, it’s difficult for us to tell what he lacks. 

For example, I work with a guy who is in his 40s, he has money, and he’s a nice looking guy. He’s funny, which is what most women seem to like, and he just seems like an all around good guy, but I don’t think he’s ever even had a serious relationship. He’s dated a bit from time to time, but women just don’t seem to go for him, and I don’t get it. 

That might not be so puzzling if only a select few men were able to have a woman in their life, but what gets me is that I see all kinds of guys who, in my opinion, couldn’t hold a candle to this guy, and they have relationships with nice looking women. In fact, the majority of men have a woman in their life. So, what is it with these few that seem like normal guys, but just never have any luck with women? Have any of you ladies ever known a guy like this? Maybe they all have rattlesnakes in their house or never bath, but I don’t get it.


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## TheDudeLebowski

How a person acts a work is often different than how they act outside of work. Well, maybe I shouldn't say often, but it's certainly a thing. 

"The world is a stage" and all that. Perhaps these women he has dated see a different side of him rather quickly. Also, he could know about issues he has, but instead of working on himself, he uses them as a self fulfilling prophecy to some extent. Self sabotaging his own relationships with women. That last part is common enough from both men and women.


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## Prodigal

"Normal" is a subjective term, IMO. And I agree with The Dude - our work personalities aren't the same as how we actually are outside the office. 

Maybe the coworker just isn't interested in women. Maybe he's gay. Maybe he's asexual. Maybe he was badly burned in a relationship at some point and decided to swear off women. 

Some folks just don't want to be paired up. I've known a few guys like this. And, yeah, they were nice, fun to be around, and good company. They just weren't interested in getting involved.


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## cc48kel

He could just be happy with himself and just content in life. Money, house, pets, good family and friends around that he never feels lonely or the need for drama in his life. I know of a woman like that-- she's happy with a house, friends, pool, hobbies, pets... always laughing and having a great time BUT no need for a boyfriend at all. To me, she's got the secret of life-- never feels like she's missing out on anything..


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## uhtred

He may be gay. He may be asexual. He may just not want a relationship. 

I have two friends, one male, one female who have never been in any serious relationships - non at all for the female. Both seem happy, so I presume that is the way that they want things.

OTOH, its easy to be fooled. There was a guy at work who I thought was very likely gay (didn't care, just my guess). Knew him for years. One day his long term girlfriend visited. Some people just keep their private and work lives separate.


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## EleGirl

I have a friend who I've knows since 1982 when I went back to college. He's in his 60's now and has never had a long term relationship and has hardly ever dated. He's a good guy and not back looking.

He has a probelm that has caused his inability to form a long-term relationship. It's that he relives a life-sript over and over. He was taken away from his birth mother and 8 siblings when he was a year old because his birth mother was an alcoholic with a lot of kids and a lot of problems. His birth father was just as bad. So social services took the 3 youngest kids away and adopted them out to seperate families. He was adopted by a couple that could not have children of their. His adopted mother loved him and took good care of him. But, apparenlty, his adopted father made sure that he knew that he was did not want the boy. He only went through with the adoption to appease his wife. 

In every dating relationship he had, he relived this rejection. He was so needy that he drove the women away. When he was in his late 40's he just stopped dating. Said is was not worth it, he knew that he was broken.

It's sad.


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## Hope Shimmers

He's too nice.


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## Andy1001

southbound said:


> I’m sure the question of “what do women want” has been asked a thousand different ways, but I have a question that has always intrigued me. Have any of you ladies ever known a guy who seemed normal, but just never could seem to have any luck with the women. He’s good looking enough, he has a decent job, and everything seems in the normal zone, but women don’t seem to gravitate to him. I’m asking this because from a guy looking at another guy, it’s difficult for us to tell what he lacks.
> 
> For example, I work with a guy who is in his 40s, he has money, and he’s a nice looking guy. He’s funny, which is what most women seem to like, and he just seems like an all around good guy, but I don’t think he’s ever even had a serious relationship. He’s dated a bit from time to time, but women just don’t seem to go for him, and I don’t get it.
> 
> That might not be so puzzling if only a select few men were able to have a woman in their life, but what gets me is that I see all kinds of guys who, in my opinion, couldn’t hold a candle to this guy, and they have relationships with nice looking women. In fact, the majority of men have a woman in their life. So, what is it with these few that seem like normal guys, but just never have any luck with women? Have any of you ladies ever known a guy like this? Maybe they all have rattlesnakes in their house or never bath, but I don’t get it.


Do you know for a fact that he actually wants a serious relationship.


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## TJW

southbound said:


> That might not be so puzzling if only a select few men were able to have a woman in their life


The guy may understand that, as you say, the majority of men "have" a woman in their life. But only a select few men are actually wanted and respected. 

He may be smart enough to recognize that he will not be one of the select few....and, yes, it may be "his own fault"....

How I wish I had been this smart 40 years ago. I would have never known I had all these faults.


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## personofinterest

TJW said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> 
> That might not be so puzzling if only a select few men were able to have a woman in their life
> 
> 
> 
> The guy may understand that, as you say, the majority of men "have" a woman in their life. But only a select few men are actually wanted and respected.
> 
> He may be smart enough to recognize that he will not be one of the select few....and, yes, it may be "his own fault"....
> 
> How I wish I had been this smart 40 years ago. I would have never known I had all these faults.
Click to expand...

 What a ridiculous and jaded statement.


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## Rowan

I've known a few guys like this. 

One was a super great guy. But he kept dating a consecutive string of extremely pretty and extremely shallow, early-20-something, club hopping co-eds. Which was fine when he was in his 20's, but got progressively less okay as he began to edge up on 40. But, he just kept on pursuing those same types, all while lamenting that he couldn't find a good, mature, woman to settle down with for a serious relationship. But he wasn't willing to actually pursue women who might have been interested in what he said he wanted. So, no relationships that would have made it to the point his work colleagues would have known about them. 

Another seemed like the perfect man. He was brilliant, funny, highly educated, exceptionally successful, and a lot of fun to be around. Just as long as you weren't his girlfriend. Because he was also highly controlling, always right, and insisted rather strongly on his girlfriends always looking and acting according to his wishes. There's only so many times most women will tolerate being publicly scolded for ordering something other than a small salad with fat free dressing, or told to change clothes because what they're wearing isn't quite right, or coming home to find all their casual sandals in the trash because those aren't ladylike enough for his tastes (true story). None of his women ever lasted very long. And he mostly seemed okay with that, because I really don't think he actually liked women much, especially not ones with their own personalities, preferences and opinions. 

I also had a friend who was smart, wealthy, funny, and should have been a real catch. And he truly wanted a relationship with the right woman. The problem was that, in his mind, the right woman was a slim but chesty, fine boned, 5'10"+, naturally blonde, blue eyed, multilingual, ivy league graduate and successful career woman who wanted to be a SAHM on a small farm in the country, making homemade apple sauce, canning tomatoes, and raising their babies. And he wasn't willing to entertain even dating anyone who didn't fit that bill in every way. 

Some people are just intensely private so you wouldn't know much about their private lives just through work interactions. Some people just don't really want a relationship and either don't look for one or sabotage the ones they do get into. I do think a lot of those perpetually single guys who seem otherwise normal and great and quite the catch at work, particularly the ones who say they want a relationship but are never actually in one, might sometimes be a bit less baggage-free in their private lives.


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## uhtred

Its not necessarily sad or a problem. Some people may be happy single. 

People like all sort of things. I reading that there is one guy who has spent more than half of his life at the south pole base in Antarctica He likes it there. All sorts of people in the world.


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## southbound

Rowan said:


> I've known a few guys like this.
> 
> One was a super great guy. But he kept dating a consecutive string of extremely pretty and extremely shallow, early-20-something, club hopping co-eds. Which was fine when he was in his 20's, but got progressively less okay as he began to edge up on 40. But, he just kept on pursuing those same types, all while lamenting that he couldn't find a good, mature, woman to settle down with for a serious relationship. But he wasn't willing to actually pursue women who might have been interested in what he said he wanted. So, no relationships that would have made it to the point his work colleagues would have known about them.
> 
> Another seemed like the perfect man. He was brilliant, funny, highly educated, exceptionally successful, and a lot of fun to be around. Just as long as you weren't his girlfriend. Because he was also highly controlling, always right, and insisted rather strongly on his girlfriends always looking and acting according to his wishes. There's only so many times most women will tolerate being publicly scolded for ordering something other than a small salad with fat free dressing, or told to change clothes because what they're wearing isn't quite right, or coming home to find all their casual sandals in the trash because those aren't ladylike enough for his tastes (true story). None of his women ever lasted very long. And he mostly seemed okay with that, because I really don't think he actually liked women much, especially not ones with their own personalities, preferences and opinions.
> 
> I also had a friend who was smart, wealthy, funny, and should have been a real catch. And he truly wanted a relationship with the right woman. The problem was that, in his mind, the right woman was a slim but chesty, fine boned, 5'10"+, naturally blonde, blue eyed, multilingual, ivy league graduate and successful career woman who wanted to be a SAHM on a small farm in the country, making homemade apple sauce, canning tomatoes, and raising their babies. And he wasn't willing to entertain even dating anyone who didn't fit that bill in every way.
> 
> Some people are just intensely private so you wouldn't know much about their private lives just through work interactions. Some people just don't really want a relationship and either don't look for one or sabotage the ones they do get into. I do think a lot of those perpetually single guys who seem otherwise normal and great and quite the catch at work, particularly the ones who say they want a relationship but are never actually in one, might sometimes be a bit less baggage-free in their private lives.


This is the kind of thing I was wondering about. The guys I know are not gay, bisexual. There are just some guys who seem normal that women just don’t seem drawn to. There are men who seem like butts in the surface and actually have issues, but they gave relationships.


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## oldshirt

personofinterest said:


> What a ridiculous and jaded statement.


Unfortunately there is some harsh truth to what he was saying.

In the not so distant past there was such societal and family pressure that many women were marrying men simply to get their family off their back and get a roof over their head.

There was a lot of marrying going on where there really wasn't much respect,love or desire for their husbands. 

If polygamy was more legal and accepted and women would only marry who they actually wanted and men could marry multiple women, there is a good chance that only a minority of men would ever have women and most would not. 

One of the reasons behind the concept of monogamous marriage was so that societies would not have large numbers of single men hanging around drinking and brawling and causing problems. 

If Mother Nature was left in charge, only a small percentage of men would ever breed and reproduce.


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## TJW

oldshirt said:


> In the not so distant past there was such societal and family pressure that many women were marrying men simply to get their family off their back and get a roof over their head.


In the more distant past, the family worked at home and stayed at home. Mom, dad, grandpa, grandma, kids, grandkids. We can thank the industrial revolution for this money-driven-marriage mode, and we can thank Hollywood and Harlequin for teaching the women that only George Clooney is desirable and their husband is a geek.

And, we can thank our wonderful money-lending-at-high-interest society for teaching us that "home ownership" to every nuclear family is the "American Dream". Chicken in every pot, car in every driveway.... and, if you can't afford the car (or the chicken), don't move out into the countryside and build a hen house and a barn with horse stalls..... just come into the city and let us own (err...., subsidize) you.


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## southbound

After giving it some thought, what I really mean is: have you ever known a guy who seemed normal, but he just could never really “click” with anyone? It wasn’t a matter of any weirdness that someone discovered once they started dating him, but women just don’t gravitate to him for some reason.


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## Rowan

southbound said:


> After giving it some thought, what I really mean is: have you ever known a guy who seemed normal, but he just could never really “click” with anyone? It wasn’t a matter of any weirdness that someone discovered once they started dating him, but women just don’t gravitate to him for some reason.


If women aren't gravitating to a man, ever, then there's generally some reason for it. Something about the guy is turning women off. Whether it's happening gradually over the course of a relationship, by the end of the first date, or instantly upon being introduced, something is turning potential partners off from him. And it may be something that isn't really apparent to (or is simply ignored by) other men, particularly coworkers and other casual acquaintances. 

Social awkwardness, emotional instability, desperation, odd habits, poor hygiene, poor manners, unusual personal style, off-putting sense of humor, or mildly inappropriate sexual behaviors might be examples of things that might turn women off that other guys who only know someone casually might just not really notice. And that's before we even get to whatever baggage, emotional issues, self-sabotaging or deal-breaker habits and personality quirks might reveal themselves when dating.


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## minimalME

I'm not a man, but I feel like I'm the female version, and I do wonder what it is about me that I can't see.

I know I'm introverted, awkward and odd - and I often self-sabotage, but all the rest is quite normal. 

It's a mystery.


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## TJW

minimalME said:


> I know I'm introverted, awkward and odd - and I often self-sabotage, but all the rest is quite normal.




Love it.....

I'm the male version.....


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## BruceBanner

Rowan said:


> If women aren't gravitating to a man, ever, then there's generally some reason for it. Something about the guy is turning women off. Whether it's happening gradually over the course of a relationship, by the end of the first date, or instantly upon being introduced, something is turning potential partners off from him. And it may be something that isn't really apparent to (or is simply ignored by) other men, particularly coworkers and other casual acquaintances.
> 
> Social awkwardness, emotional instability, desperation, odd habits, poor hygiene, poor manners, unusual personal style, off-putting sense of humor, or mildly inappropriate sexual behaviors might be examples of things that might turn women off that other guys who only know someone casually might just not really notice. And that's before we even get to whatever baggage, emotional issues, self-sabotaging or deal-breaker habits and personality quirks might reveal themselves when dating.


Heaven forbid a man not give a **** about women and all the unnecessary conflict and drama they could potentially bring with them.


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## Rowan

BruceBanner said:


> Heaven forbid a man not give a **** about women and all the unnecessary conflict and drama they could potentially bring with them.



If you'd read the thread, it probably would have become apparent that several posters, including me, had proposed that the guys the OP was asking about might just not be interested in a relationship for any of a number of reasons. They might perhaps be gay, asexual, MGTOW, or maybe just cool with being alone at this point in their lives. No one is, or has been, questioning their right to not want a relationship, for any reason or no reason at all. 

However, the OP then said he didn't think that was the case with the men he was speaking of, and asked about seemingly normal guys who wanted relationships but who just didn't seem to attract women. And I stand by my assertion that a man who wants a relationship but doesn't attract women is, in some way, not attracting women. Why that's happening is pretty much anyone's guess. But if a man wants to attract women and isn't, then he's doing something unattractive to women. Kinda by default. :yawn2:


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## Andy1001

Rowan said:


> If you'd read the thread, it probably would have become apparent that several posters, including me, had proposed that the guys the OP was asking about might just not be interested in a relationship for any of a number of reasons. They might perhaps be gay, asexual, MGTOW, or maybe just cool with being alone at this point in their lives. No one is, or has been, questioning their right to not want a relationship, for any reason or no reason at all.
> 
> However, the OP then said he didn't think that was the case with the men he was speaking of, and asked about seemingly normal guys who wanted relationships but who just didn't seem to attract women. And I stand by my assertion that a man who wants a relationship but doesn't attract women is, in some way, not attracting women. Why that's happening is pretty much anyone's guess. But if a man wants to attract women and isn't, then he's doing something unattractive to women. Kinda by default. :yawn2:


I have met a lot of men like this over the years and a constant running theme is this.
They haven’t a clue what being in a relationship is like and therefore base their relationship requirements on tv soaps or Hollywood movies.
You have an average looking guy who won’t settle for anything less than a Rosie Whitely lookalike.
Or a wealthy guy who feels his money entitles him to whichever super model is the current darling of the press.And he may be overweight and have the conversational talent of a traffic signal.
There are numerous other examples I could use but the one consistent is this.These guys won’t settle,it’s either all or nothing.


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## Mr. Nail

Andy1001 said:


> I have met a lot of men like this over the years and a constant running theme is this.
> They haven’t a clue what being in a relationship is like and therefore base their relationship requirements on tv soaps or Hollywood movies.
> You have an average looking guy who won’t settle for anything less than a Rosie Whitely lookalike.
> Or a wealthy guy who feels his money entitles him to whichever super model is the current darling of the press.And he may be overweight and have the conversational talent of a traffic signal.
> There are numerous other examples I could use but the one consistent is this.These guys won’t settle,it’s either all or nothing.


The dating out of your league theme, is a pretty good reason not to get into a relationship. Every time a woman says "can't he see that she is out of his league" I reply "I'm never going to date again. What is this some secret Caste system? 

On the other hand your remark about conversational talent made me laugh. A traffic signal gives you a solid Yes or No. That would actually be an improvement in my situation.


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## southbound

Andy1001 said:


> Rowan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you'd read the thread, it probably would have become apparent that several posters, including me, had proposed that the guys the OP was asking about might just not be interested in a relationship for any of a number of reasons. They might perhaps be gay, asexual, MGTOW, or maybe just cool with being alone at this point in their lives. No one is, or has been, questioning their right to not want a relationship, for any reason or no reason at all.
> 
> However, the OP then said he didn't think that was the case with the men he was speaking of, and asked about seemingly normal guys who wanted relationships but who just didn't seem to attract women. And I stand by my assertion that a man who wants a relationship but doesn't attract women is, in some way, not attracting women. Why that's happening is pretty much anyone's guess. But if a man wants to attract women and isn't, then he's doing something unattractive to women. Kinda by default. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/yawn2.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Yawn2" ></a>
> 
> 
> 
> I have met a lot of men like this over the years and a constant running theme is this.
> They haven’t a clue what being in a relationship is like and therefore base their relationship requirements on tv soaps or Hollywood movies.
> You have an average looking guy who won’t settle for anything less than a Rosie Whitely lookalike.
> Or a wealthy guy who feels his money entitles him to whichever super model is the current darling of the press.And he may be overweight and have the conversational talent of a traffic signal.
> There are numerous other examples I could use but the one consistent is this.These guys won’t settle,it’s either all or nothing.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the comments. It does raise a couple more questions. What about the guys who are not that attractive, or just seem like not that much of a catch, but they have no trouble with relationships. 

I know there is no blanket reason that fits everybody, but it’s puzzling when I see a guy who acts like Gomer Pyle and couldn’t open an umbrella, but he’s got an attractive woman. Then there are those guys who seem normal, but no luck. 

It’s also puzzling when I see men who give women a lot of grief like drinking and such, but there is apparently a positive about them that outweighs that and keeps the woman at his side. It makes no sense to me.


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## Chuck71

TJW said:


> In the more distant past, the family worked at home and stayed at home. Mom, dad, grandpa, grandma, kids, grandkids. We can thank the industrial revolution for this money-driven-marriage mode, and we can thank Hollywood and Harlequin for teaching the women that only George Clooney is desirable and their husband is a geek.
> 
> And, we can thank our wonderful money-lending-at-high-interest society for teaching us that "home ownership" to every nuclear family is the "American Dream". Chicken in every pot, car in every driveway.... and, if you can't afford the car (or the chicken), don't move out into the countryside and build a hen house and a barn with horse stalls..... just come into the city and let us own (err...., subsidize) you.


Me pop, he was a '41 baby.... told me things that really rang true when I was younger.

But if you don't know my story....he was a master teacher but a shi**y parent.

"The reason the South were behind was we had agriculture 8-10-12 months a year. The North sat

inside for 4-6 months. They read, usually the Bible. Not an easy read son, trust me.

Then came the Industrial Revolution, well both of them. The North went industry, South stayed agrarian.

The North slid into tech....the South finally embraced industry. While the North went all-tech, the South grabbed

all the industry jobs. The North maintained tech and all the industries, left the South, NAFTA and a few other reasons."

He said those words in 1996, the year he died. As a former public school teacher, I can attest...

"Until about 30 years ago all you needed to know was to write, read, tell what time it was" ...but those jobs are gone.

The adults who had those jobs had uneducated children. Now those children, have children. Notice that

the South is behind on education. I saw it. The American Dream is a myth.

The same 3k sq. ft. home what was 99k when I graduated HS in '89 are now.....$249-299k.

Wages......haven't went up much, at all. It wasn't too much harder in '89 to find a job paying

$10-12 per hr. as it is now. Retail.... don't get me started on retail, or the food service industry.

Maybe men can't afford to M, or even afford to date. But we are talking about the 40 and up crowd.

Very few women want a man living paycheck to paycheck. And if the guys are barely getting by.....

maybe they are content with being alone. Things may be different in other parts of the country,

but I live in the South and have seen it for the last 25 years first hand and another 30 from pop.


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## [email protected]

It's almost universal that women gravitate toward men with money, power, status, or some combination thereof. They will reject a nice, handsome man in favor of a homely but wealthy guy. If a guy doensn't at least show potential in gaining those former attributes, he will be alone.
The people who are most alone are high-achieving, educated females and poor, low achieving males. I know a PhD female (full professor) who is married to a guy who delivers pizza. That combination is one in a million (and the woman is homely).


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## MattMatt

personofinterest said:


> What a ridiculous and jaded statement.


If it is based on his life experiences it may well be jaded, but that wouldn't mean it is ridiculous.


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## personofinterest

MattMatt said:


> If it is based on his life experiences it may well be jaded, but that wouldn't mean it is ridiculous.


It may not be ridiculous for hi, true.

But objectively and statistically it is.


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## SadSamIAm

[email protected] said:


> It's almost universal that women gravitate toward men with money, power, status, or some combination thereof. They will reject a nice, handsome man in favor of a homely but wealthy guy. If a guy doensn't at least show potential in gaining those former attributes, he will be alone.
> The people who are most alone are high-achieving, educated females and poor, low achieving males. I know a PhD female (full professor) who is married to a guy who delivers pizza. That combination is one in a million (and the woman is homely).



Women are attracted to smart guys with a personality and strong work ethic. It is just that many guys like that also have money and power.

Some might think it is the money and power that attracts them. Some might think it is their positive attributes that helped them acquire it.


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## TAMAT

I wasn't going to post except I thought of someone we see regularly at church, he's ivy league, somewhat tall, intelligent but doesn't appear to have ever had a long term relationship. 

I believe the reason is that he easily shows contempt and impatience and wants everything in his life his way. There was one woman from church he was almost dating but he got mad at her over something silly and that was it.

I can't imagine any woman wanting a super-critical man to see them naked. I'm sure he sees himself as honest. 

Tamat


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## southbound

TAMAT said:


> I wasn't going to post except I thought of someone we see regularly at church, he's ivy league, somewhat tall, intelligent but doesn't appear to have ever had a long term relationship.
> 
> I believe the reason is that he easily shows contempt and impatience and wants everything in his life his way. There was one woman from church he was almost dating but he got mad at her over something silly and that was it.
> 
> I can't imagine any woman wanting a super-critical man to see them naked. I'm sure he sees himself as honest.
> 
> Tamat


Maybe it’s some individual thing like this with every guy in this situation. This is the kind of guy I’m referring to: not the guy that’s had several 2 to 5 year relationships in his life but just can’t seem to make it work, but the guy who seems as normal as the next guy, but can barely get to the second date. I still think some of these guys would be better than the butts that some women end up with.


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## Andy1001

Mr. Nail said:


> The dating out of your league theme, is a pretty good reason not to get into a relationship. Every time a woman says "can't he see that she is out of his league" I reply "I'm never going to date again. What is this some secret Caste system?
> 
> On the other hand your remark about conversational talent made me laugh. A traffic signal gives you a solid Yes or No. That would actually be an improvement in my situation.


The dating out of your league comment is very valid actually and if you think about it it makes sense.
You have a woman in her mid twenties,very pretty,smart with a good career and earning good money,who dresses fashionably but elegantly and keeps herself in good physical shape by exercising and eating healthy.
Then you have a guy who may also earn good money but he lives in jeans and trainers,whose idea of exercise is rolling his own cigarettes and considers a trip to McDonald’s as eating out and who’s sole topic of conversation is nascar.Because he earns a high salary he feels this entitlement to a woman like the one I wrote about.
It doesn’t work like that and rightly so.
Even if they got together how long would it last?
You can reverse the sexes and the story remains the same.
Physical appearance has very little to do with it,unless the guy looks like Quasimodo’s uglier brother then he can make the most of what he has and work on it.


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## Mr. Nail

sure there are plenty of reasons a couple might not work. But you oversimplify. Somehow the woman in your example. Knows the second this guy stumbles into her presence that he is not in her caste. No secret handshake of her literary group. No review of financials. No Dale Earnhardt t-shirt. She just knows. It's either a giant Secret, or completely capricious. I'm going with Occam's razor here. 

So despite the validity of the league system. As long as it holds sway, I'm not playing a game with capricious rules.


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## Andy1001

Mr. Nail said:


> sure there are plenty of reasons a couple might not work. But you oversimplify. Somehow the woman in your example. Knows the second this guy stumbles into her presence that he is not in her caste. No secret handshake of her literary group. No review of financials. No Dale Earnhardt t-shirt. She just knows. It's either a giant Secret, or completely capricious. I'm going with Occam's razor here.
> 
> So despite the validity of the league system. As long as it holds sway, I'm not playing a game with capricious rules.


If you’re using Occams razor to make your point then fair enough.His principle is based on opposition to falsifiability criteria which if you don’t allready know is because there can be an enormousl amount of alternative theories to explain any phenomenon,by taking the simplest theory it is easiest to defend from alternative solutions.That doesn’t make it correct.
Occam’s razor is not considered a suitable hypothesis in most scientific situations.
But I digress.What is the simplest solution to the question in your opinion?


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## SunCMars

cc48kel said:


> He could just be happy with himself and just content in life. Money, house, pets, good family and friends around that he never feels lonely or the need for drama in his life. I know of a woman like that-- she's happy with a house, friends, pool, hobbies, pets... always laughing and having a great time BUT no need for a boyfriend at all. To me, she's got the secret of life-- never feels like she's missing out on anything..


True, so true..

So sad, it makes me so blue.





The Typist I-


----------



## Mr. Nail

Andy1001 said:


> If you’re using Occams razor to make your point then fair enough.His principle is based on opposition to falsifiability criteria which if you don’t allready know is because there can be an enormousl amount of alternative theories to explain any phenomenon,by taking the simplest theory it is easiest to defend from alternative solutions.That doesn’t make it correct.
> Occam’s razor is not considered a suitable hypothesis in most scientific situations.
> But I digress.*What is the simplest solution to the question in your opinion?*


The simplest solution is that she isn't interested for a reason that she can't articulate, and uses the out of his league line to avoid having to think about it. I really have no trouble with anyone rejecting anyone for any or no reason. In fact I reserve the right to reject everyone for no reason. But there is no reason to blame the other person for not meeting some imaginary standard that in reality is never defined.


----------



## DTO

BruceBanner said:


> Heaven forbid a man not give a **** about women and all the unnecessary conflict and drama they could potentially bring with them.


This 100%! I don't "not give a sh*t" about women as a rule. But, I prioritize relationships below my child (which includes maintaining a nice home for her) and career. If I really needed to hone in on either one (which was often for the first several years I was single), that was what I did.

Even with the above being in good shape, a lady really has to stand out for me to invest significant time and effort. Career and home (especially as a single parent) are always demanding, and after that was done I actually liked to have "me" time (heaven forbid! - lol). With all that going on, something (the "me" time) has to give in order to date, and for that to happen she needs to be special.

But to people looking in from the outside, it just appeared that I couldn't attract or be bothered with having a lady friend.


----------



## AliceA

Maybe it's him rejecting the women he's going on dates with rather than the other way around.


----------



## Girl_power

I seem to find that “normal” men like yourself don’t realize how some men can really be. How one acts in a work setting and whatever and how one acts with a women alone are two way different things. 
Also maybe the guy is to picky. 
I also find that it’s a red flag when someone has never been in a serious relationship. I met a guy that told me the last few women he dated were all crazy... it was a huge red flag. After a few dates I realized that he was the crazy one but he had no idea and never will.


----------



## VladDracul

EleGirl said:


> In every dating relationship he had, he relived this rejection. He was so needy that he drove the women away. When he was in his late 40's he just stopped dating. Said is was not worth it, he knew that he was broken.
> 
> It's sad.


I said for the longest that kids, especially young kids, are not taught; they are programmed, and often with a virus attached.


----------



## southbound

Girl_power said:


> I seem to find that “normal” men like yourself don’t realize how some men can really be. How one acts in a work setting and whatever and how one acts with a women alone are two way different things.
> Also maybe the guy is to picky.
> I also find that it’s a red flag when someone has never been in a serious relationship. I met a guy that told me the last few women he dated were all crazy... it was a huge red flag. After a few dates I realized that he was the crazy one but he had no idea and never will.


I’m sure this is the case in some instances. I actually know some if the guys personally and know they seem like regular guys. 
It seems there are also guys who are total butts even on the surface, they don’t work, or they don’t know snow from rain, yet they seem to attract women quite well. Puzzling.


----------



## southbound

What about boring? I’m sure it’s possible for a guy to be too boring, but what is the line. It seems like everybody today is so adventurous and passionate about being on the go all the time: it’s camping out, boating, traveling,you name it. I guess even if a guy is normal in other areas and doesn’t have any creepy habits, if he’s satisfied with working and some Netflix, he’s probably not considered too attractive by women these days is he?


----------



## AliceA

southbound said:


> What about boring? I’m sure it’s possible for a guy to be too boring, but what is the line. It seems like everybody today is so adventurous and passionate about being on the go all the time: it’s camping out, boating, traveling,you name it. I guess even if a guy is normal in other areas and doesn’t have any creepy habits, if he’s satisfied with working and some Netflix, he’s probably not considered too attractive by women these days is he?


I don't know what all 'women these days' are looking for, because honestly, every woman is an individual person with her own needs and wants, but it's not a person's extracurricular activities or lack of them that moves me to the next date.


----------



## Andy1001

breeze said:


> I don't know what all 'women these days' are looking for, because honestly, every woman is an individual person with her own needs and wants, but it's not a person's extracurricular activities or lack of them that moves me to the next date.


I own a business,a health studio and have about seventy five women working for me,they are mostly early to late twenties.I don’t work there but if I’m around I often call in for a chat,a lot of these women were friends before they became employees.
The one constant I hear then discussing is getting a guy to commit to anything.It seems that young men are paranoid about being “tied down” by a woman.Everything is based around the hangout culture,actually arranging a date seems anathema to these guys,as does paying for it.
They think that Netflix and a pizza is a dinner date and the idea of actually calling for your date seems to have been consigned to history.
I know exactly why some men have such a high success rate with women.Its not so much how they look or how wealthy they are.It’s all about how they treat the woman they are dating,most women (and men for that matter) like to feel they are special and like to be treated with respect.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I think a lot of times many of us project our own thoughts and realities onto others. Unless the guy seems particularly sad and lonely, or says sometimes he wishes he had someone. Chances are he is content with his life as it is.


----------



## notmyrealname4

oldshirt said:


> Unfortunately there is some harsh truth to what he was saying.
> 
> In the not so distant past there was such societal and family pressure that many women were marrying men simply to get their family off their back and get a roof over their head.
> 
> There was a lot of marrying going on where there really wasn't much respect,love or desire for their husbands.
> 
> *If polygamy was more legal and accepted and women would only marry who they actually wanted and men could marry multiple women, there is a good chance that only a minority of men would ever have women and most would not. *
> 
> One of the reasons behind the concept of monogamous marriage was so that societies would not have large numbers of single men hanging around drinking and brawling and causing problems.
> 
> If Mother Nature was left in charge, only a small percentage of men would ever breed and reproduce.




I agree, but isn't the bolded the dynamic of "the religion of peace"? ( except the women don't get to chose, they are made to marry whom their father selects??)

Doesn't seem to work really well, pent up sexual frustration is what fuels a lot of religious mania.


----------



## notmyrealname4

[email protected] said:


> The people who are most alone are high-achieving, educated females and poor, low achieving males. I know a PhD female (full professor) who is married to a guy who delivers pizza. That combination is one in a million* (and the woman is homely).*


:surprise: (gasps), What!!! that poor pizza delivery guy. How sad that he had to settle. btw, is he "homely"?

There's a fair chance that he will use her money to cheat on her with "hot" women.


----------



## notmyrealname4

TAMAT said:


> *I can't imagine any woman wanting a super-critical man to see them naked. *I'm sure he sees himself as honest.
> 
> Tamat




Truer words never spoken.


----------



## notmyrealname4

BruceBanner said:


> Heaven forbid a man not give a **** about women and all the unnecessary conflict and drama they could potentially bring with them.




Yeah, way to go. Keep up the good fight.


----------



## notmyrealname4

breeze said:


> I don't know what all 'women these days' are looking for, because honestly, *every woman is an individual person with her own needs and wants,* but it's not a person's extracurricular activities or lack of them that moves me to the next date.




Um, no breeze. We women are a monolithic entity; identical in every way. According to this thread and TAM wisdom; we are "drama queens","have drivel coming out of our mouths" [that's almost an exact paraphrase from a post I read today, lol].

We're money-grubbing, frigid, never initiate sex ...etc. et al. God, WHY do men want anything to do with us.

Cue the "in a few years men will buy sex robots instead of dating women" soundtrack.


----------



## notmyrealname4

DTO said:


> Even with the above being in good shape,* a lady really has to stand out for me to invest significant time and effort.* Career and home (especially as a single parent) are always demanding, and after that was done I actually liked to have "me" time (heaven forbid! - lol). With all that going on, something (the "me" time) has to give in order to date, and for that to happen *she needs to be special.*




Do you "stand out"? In what ways? Are you "special"? If so, how could you quantify that?


----------



## notmyrealname4

Okay @southbound,I'm gonna bite.

Attraction is MYSTERIOUS. At least a significant part of it is.

Some homely, financially inept, somewhat insignificant people have "it", or [parlez vous francais]..."je ne sais quoi", which roughly translated means "a certain something".

The best looking, well groomed, intelligent, thoughtful (insert positive adjectives of choice) person can have *zero* sexual appeal.

If we knew what caused people to be very sexually/romantically attractive; it would be sold in bottles and would be making someone billions.

And, as stated upthread over and over; maybe your pal isn't really interested in a relationship and/or has some faults that are not perceptible to you; but that women pick up on very quickly.

Aren't we awful? I mean it's not like men have any demanding and unrealistic expectations of women...ever.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I've seen a few comments alluding to the guy being "too nice" or "boring". I don't think that's it either. I am fairly outgoing, not in a loud obnoxious way, I just love people, and honestly its a bit much for some women, so I tend to focus my attention on my date instead of making new "friends" all the time. Many women prefer a more laid back fella, so being introverted shouldn't be an issue if that's how you are.. 

Regarding the nice guy thing that is complete BS. I am so tired of the whole "bad boy" stigma, about jerks getting all the girls. I believe its a myth for the most part. I just think many of us men get it in our head that if the woman we are interested in chooses someone else, than surely he must be a "bad boy", or "super rich", or "alpha" or whatever other nonsense. I mean that guy has to have something so outlandish and unique that we don't possess right??? But....maybe....just maybe he is a normal freaking guy just like you. She just happens to be more attracted to him. Chemistry is something that's either there or it isn't. Just my theory anyway.....


----------



## BruceBanner

notmyrealname4 said:


> Yeah, way to go. Keep up the good fight.


You sound hella offended. Did you not see my usage of the word "potentially"?


----------



## PreRaph

notmyrealname4 said:


> Um, no breeze. We women are a monolithic entity; identical in every way. According to this thread and TAM wisdom; we are "drama queens","have drivel coming out of our mouths" [that's almost an exact paraphrase from a post I read today, lol].
> 
> We're money-grubbing, frigid, never initiate sex ...etc. et al. God, WHY do men want anything to do with us.
> 
> Cue the "in a few years men will buy sex robots instead of dating women" soundtrack.


Dammit, I married a weirdo.


----------



## southbound

notmyrealname4 said:


> Okay @southbound,I'm gonna bite.
> 
> Attraction is MYSTERIOUS. At least a significant part of it is.
> 
> Some homely, financially inept, somewhat insignificant people have "it", or [parlez vous francais]..."je ne sais quoi", which roughly translated means "a certain something".
> 
> The best looking, well groomed, intelligent, thoughtful (insert positive adjectives of choice) person can have *zero* sexual appeal.
> 
> If we knew what caused people to be very sexually/romantically attractive; it would be sold in bottles and would be making someone billions.
> 
> And, as stated upthread over and over; maybe your pal isn't really interested in a relationship and/or has some faults that are not perceptible to you; but that women pick up on very quickly.
> 
> Aren't we awful? I mean it's not like men have any demanding and unrealistic expectations of women...ever.


So, attraction is something we can’t always explain. The guys who never seem to have any luck probably just don’t have “it” whatever that might be.


----------



## john117

southbound said:


> So, attraction is something we can’t always explain. The guys who never seem to have any luck probably just don’t have “it” whatever that might be.


It's a numbers game. Those who are "lucky" put the effort and generally spread a wide net. The "unlucky" ones probably not as wide a net...


----------



## AliceA

john117 said:


> It's a numbers game. Those who are "lucky" put the effort and generally spread a wide net. The "unlucky" ones probably not as wide a net...


Reminds me of the song by The Whitlams, Up Against the Wall

"She was one in a million, so there's five more just in New south Wales"

Yeah, still a **** tonne of people to wade through, lol.


----------



## Laurentium

Andy1001 said:


> the conversational talent of a traffic signal.


I like that


----------



## Dawghoused

Maybe that guy is not romantic. That's why all the girls he dated doesn't want to be in a relationship. Ask him to take some tips from any love guru.


----------



## southbound

breeze said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about boring? I’m sure it’s possible for a guy to be too boring, but what is the line. It seems like everybody today is so adventurous and passionate about being on the go all the time: it’s camping out, boating, traveling,you name it. I guess even if a guy is normal in other areas and doesn’t have any creepy habits, if he’s satisfied with working and some Netflix, he’s probably not considered too attractive by women these days is he?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what all 'women these days' are looking for, because honestly, every woman is an individual person with her own needs and wants, but it's not a person's extracurricular activities or lack of them that moves me to the next date.
Click to expand...

That sounds great, and I’m glad you are that way, but I don’t find that attitude among most women.


----------



## AliceA

southbound said:


> That sounds great, and I’m glad you are that way, but I don’t find that attitude among most women.


I find it difficult to believe 'most' women care that much about it to be honest. What seems more likely to me is that a woman doesn't feel any connection or attraction with a guy and picks something that may seem to contribute towards that result, but at the end of the day, it may be a combination of many things but mostly there's just no sexual attraction.

I have done the same thing to try explain to a guy why I didn't want to see him again, when I first returned to the dating scene. I thought about the things about him that didn't fit my criteria and blamed them, but honestly, I just wasn't attracted to him. I realised what I'd done after that and with the next guy I didn't try to justify anything. Later there was guy I was pretty much instantly attracted to, I ignored all the little crosses in those criteria boxes and saw him again.


----------



## southbound

breeze said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds great, and I’m glad you are that way, but I don’t find that attitude among most women.
> 
> 
> 
> I find it difficult to believe 'most' women care that much about it to be honest. What seems more likely to me is that a woman doesn't feel any connection or attraction with a guy and picks something that may seem to contribute towards that result, but at the end of the day, it may be a combination of many things but mostly there's just no sexual attraction.
> 
> I have done the same thing to try explain to a guy why I didn't want to see him again, when I first returned to the dating scene. I thought about the things about him that didn't fit my criteria and blamed them, but honestly, I just wasn't attracted to him. I realised what I'd done after that and with the next guy I didn't try to justify anything. Later there was guy I was pretty much instantly attracted to, I ignored all the little crosses in those criteria boxes and saw him again.
Click to expand...

That’s hinestly the way I think it should be. Personally, I couldn’t care less what a woman does for a living or anything of that nature; it’s just about an attraction. I do think a lot of people let interests and activities of people influence their attraction. That’s certainly the way women make it appear on dating sites. It’s like they have a list that men must meet. If not, do t even bother contacting. 
Do you think a woman who is adventurous could be atttacted to a homebody guy?


----------



## minimalME

southbound said:


> Do you think a woman who is adventurous could be atttacted to a homebody guy?


I guess it depends.

Would you be willing to find a proper balance, if everything else in the relationship worked?

I consider myself adventurous, but that quality doesn't seem attractive to most men. On the other hand, I'm not sports minded like the majority of people are in my area. They're always on the go. Always doing something - for 'fun'.

That's not me. I'm driven more by purpose and goals, as opposed to going out and about to entertaining myself.

For the next 3 months, I'll be nomadic and traveling, yet for the past two years, I've been the least physically active person in this lodge, and I can totally spend a weekend in bed going through a series or having a movie marathon.

So, I can be both/either, depending on what's going on in my life. And finding someone compatible - who'd genuinely enjoy living how I live - would be nice, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.


----------



## AliceA

southbound said:


> That’s hinestly the way I think it should be. Personally, I couldn’t care less what a woman does for a living or anything of that nature; it’s just about an attraction. I do think a lot of people let interests and activities of people influence their attraction. That’s certainly the way women make it appear on dating sites. It’s like they have a list that men must meet. If not, do t even bother contacting.
> Do you think a woman who is adventurous could be atttacted to a homebody guy?


I think people need to be compatible. If they don't connect in one aspect, they need to in others. With online dating there is pressure to feel instant attraction. In normal circumstances, two people might meet in an environment where they are sharing a similar interest, and maybe there's no instant attraction, but it develops over time because neither of them met each other with the expectation that they had to be interested in a relationship to continue seeing that person.

In online dating, you have the pressure to either be interested in a relationship, or not and move on. People put their interests up to find someone fairly compatible with them, so as to not waste time. I think that's fair.

People can be as picky as they want, it's really their prerogative since their the ones that have to live with the consequences of getting into more dead end relationships. They've been there and done that, obviously, since they're online dating.


----------



## AliceA

I said on my profile (when I was online dating for a brief time), that I wanted someone who was 'emotionally intelligent'. The guy I ended up being attracted to was emotionally unavailable and the sort of guy that I don't think even read my profile, he just contacted me after looking at my pics, and hadn't written anything on his own profile. Normally that means a 'no' from me, but for some reason I met him anyway. 

"Does anyone even read profiles?" was his comment. 

"Um, yes!" was my response, while being fully aware I was about to see someone again who didn't bother with one, who probably wasn't compatible with me, who I was only seeing because of chemistry. 

It was fun though! >


----------



## southbound

breeze said:


> I said on my profile (when I was online dating for a brief time), that I wanted someone who was 'emotionally intelligent'.


I have been thinking about starting a thread on this very topic, and I may yet, but this seems like a good place to address it first.

I’ve noticed that almost all women on dating sites and on TAM list "intelligence" as an attractive quality.” Some even say they like “intelligent,” deep conversation. I’m wondering why this is worth mentioning. Do they mean they want a man who can discuss the Pythagorean theorem and meiosis in depth? I'm betting the answer to that is "no," but what do women mean when they list intelligence? Is it basically that they want a normal, mature guy? In other words, have they been around so many guys who act like they are in middle school and whose life revolves around video games that they feel it’s worth mentioning just to weed those out and get a guy who acts his age? Is it kinda like saying "I want a guy who is handy around the house just so you don't get stuck with a guy who can't fix a loose door knob?

Personally, that’s not really something I think of when I’m thinking of a woman. I’m not saying I want an imbecile, but it’s just not something I have on a list. Maybe I just think it’s a given, I don't know. I don’t think to myself, “She’s attractive, but I wonder how she would do on an IQ test." Maybe it’s just a difference with people. Sometimes guys find the “dumb blonde” persona a bit cute in women.


----------



## AliceA

southbound said:


> I have been thinking about starting a thread on this very topic, and I may yet, but this seems like a good place to address it first.
> 
> I’ve noticed that almost all women on dating sites and on TAM list "intelligence" as an attractive quality.” Some even say they like “intelligent,” deep conversation. I’m wondering why this is worth mentioning. Do they mean they want a man who can discuss the Pythagorean theorem and meiosis in depth? I'm betting the answer to that is "no," but what do women mean when they list intelligence? Is it basically that they want a normal, mature guy? In other words, have they been around so many guys who act like they are in middle school and whose life revolves around video games that they feel it’s worth mentioning just to weed those out and get a guy who acts his age? Is it kinda like saying "I want a guy who is handy around the house just so you don't get stuck with a guy who can't fix a loose door knob?
> 
> Personally, that’s not really something I think of when I’m thinking of a woman. I’m not saying I want an imbecile, but it’s just not something I have on a list. Maybe I just think it’s a given, I don't know. I don’t think to myself, “She’s attractive, but I wonder how she would do on an IQ test." Maybe it’s just a difference with people. Sometimes guys find the “dumb blonde” persona a bit cute in women.


I wouldn't ever list 'intelligence' as a requirement. That is something that has to be determined from meeting someone, and while IQ test scores are sometimes shown on profiles (yes, I have seen that), it's the combination of flow of conversation, their ease with talking and listening that actually matters to me.

I listed Emotional Intelligence because it's important to me personally to not end up with someone who cannot process their emotions. I've been there and done that and I can't deal with it again.


----------



## Dusk

I don't know anyone, male or female, who's permanently single unless they have significant baggage/emotional issues. Unfortunately I also think it's a bit of a vicious circle; no relationship means you get more desperate means you're less attractive...etc.


----------



## Dusk

Also, 'women' are not some kind of Borg collective, we are different people and we like different things. Just like men.


----------



## AliceA

Dusk said:


> Also, 'women' are not some kind of Borg collective, we are different people and we like different things. Just like men.


Borg collective, lol, love it.


----------



## Chuck71

One also should keep in mind, many women in their late 30s/mid 40s are not wanting a LTR. Many are coming off a nasty D and kids were involved. I dated a few after my post-D break-up. Reason why I put the majority of females in that age range into four categories (see @WasDecimated Needle in Haystack thread). 

There are a very large number of D females who feel quite similar after a long D. Do they want another LTR, not really. Do they want to just date? Yes. Do they miss sex after a bitter D? Ummm... yeah. So in many instances... they are in the same situation as men that age are in. Would like a low key dating thing.... 2-3 days a week and rest of week you do what you want with no ?s from the other.

It usually works at first. Sometimes this works long term. But most of the time, it doesn't. Eventually one of them will want to advance the "dating thing" and the other quite often, bails out. And both get hurt.

There is a huge difference in getting right back into another LTR and just dating, after a D. These pitfalls apply to both genders. And of the four types mention, I am referring to the second type.

Of the age range I mentioned in relation to OPs thread, many from this age grew up, went to college, partied, graduated, got M, had kids, worked hard. 15-20 years later.....D. What? Wait...this wasn't in the script! Well.......it is now.

When I D, I was in that group. The saving grace for me is we never had kids.

Edit-I agree 110% men and women need to re-discover theirselves and work on thy self. I say that myself often. But some feel you should not date at all after a LTR and virtually become a recluse. I see things otherwise. And I am not in favor of jumping right back into another LTR right after D. One will carry same old baggage into a new.


----------



## WasDecimated

southbound said:


> After giving it some thought, what I really mean is: have you ever known a guy who seemed normal, but he just could never really “click” with anyone? It wasn’t a matter of any weirdness that someone discovered once they started dating him, but women just don’t gravitate to him for some reason.


Yes...Me. This seems to be my life.

I was in my 30's when I married. Now I'm in my 50's and divorced. I did alright with women when I was younger but now, women, of any age, just don't seem to be attracted to me. I've seen how women react to men they are attracted to, and that's not how they respond to me. From what I've observed, most of the women seem to be chasing 10% of the guys. I know I'm not George Clooney or Brad Pitt but I think decent looking. I am educated, successful, great income, good shape, smart but...crickets. 

Over the last few years I have just given up on dating and relationships and devoted all my energy to my own personal pursuits. That is where I find my fulfillment but sometimes I do get lonely. I have become use to the idea that I may be alone for the rest of my life. When you think of it in those terms, it can be liberating.


----------



## DTO

notmyrealname4 said:


> Do you "stand out"? In what ways? Are you "special"? If so, how could you quantify that?


Yeah, I'm kind of picking up an attitude, but I'm going to dive in anyways.

All I'm saying is that I have, even without a relationship, worthy and interesting stuff going on in my life that either is very necessary (a good job) or brings me much pleasure (being involved with family and friends, hobbies, and such). And living my life as a single person leaves me with little free time. Someone I choose to date has to bring enough to my life so that I don't miss the things I have to give up to be with her.

And, it doesn't have too much to do with physical appearance (although that doesn't hurt, of course). It has more to do with our enjoying the same types of activities, sharing the same values, having compatible goals, etc. So:
* Will she watch the same dumb TV shows I do, enjoy quiet nights at home, like having family get-togethers?
* Does she accept my responsibilities (I have a child for whom creating a happy home still comes first in my life)?
* Is she intelligent and fairly ambitious (has or is working towards a good career, appreciates hard work)?
* Is she more of a giver and less of a "me first" / demanding personality (because that's how I am)?
* Is she at least fairly sexually open and free of hang-ups / aversions?
* (If the relationship gets serious) is she a hard-worker, someone who will help me run a home and build a future together? Are we at a compatible stage in life (i.e. both serious about our careers and building stability)?

I consider myself fortunate to have found a lady where we work well together. It's hard enough to find someone with whom you click, and even harder to find that in someone who can work with the life you already have.

Do I stand out? If you look at results, possibly. I've had a number of interested ladies. Going back three years (when my life was at a good place and I put effort into dating), I've had consistent companionship without having to work too hard to find it. Either the ladies pursued, or I did and the interest was quickly returned. You hear (even on TAM) how ladies seem to be chasing a relative small subset of available guys, so it seems I have something going on. But, I'll be the first to admit I'm don't think I'm God's gift to women by any stretch of the imagination.

As far as what I think I offer ladies (and I'm trying to not make it sound like an OLD profile):

Low maintenance and open minded
Good education / advanced degree
Good career (esp. now, making six figures, and pay will go up 50% over five years, and I work office hours)
Handsome (the assessment of my female friends, I really don't think that's the case)
Kid-friendly (although this matters less as I get older)
Relationship-minded (not limiting my availability to messing around or casually dating
Well-off (own a nice home, two nice cars, good retirement)

It's mostly just the stuff that tells you I can take good care of myself and be a good partner to whomever might be interested. I also think I'm fun to be around, have a good sense of humor, etc. but those things are much more subjective so not on this list above.


----------



## Buddy400

oldshirt said:


> Unfortunately there is some harsh truth to what he was saying.
> 
> In the not so distant past there was such societal and family pressure that many women were marrying men simply to get their family off their back and get a roof over their head.
> 
> There was a lot of marrying going on where there really wasn't much respect,love or desire for their husbands.
> 
> If polygamy was more legal and accepted and women would only marry who they actually wanted and men could marry multiple women, there is a good chance that only a minority of men would ever have women and most would not.
> 
> One of the reasons behind the concept of monogamous marriage was so that societies would not have large numbers of single men hanging around drinking and brawling and causing problems.
> 
> If Mother Nature was left in charge, only a small percentage of men would ever breed and reproduce.


According to DNA research, only half of the men who ever lived reproduced. For women, it's more like 90%.

If women were only looking for above average men to reproduce with, this is about what you'd expect.

Until the last 50 years or so, the fortunes of women were highly dependent on the ability of the man they married to succeed economically.

That wasn't the situation with men.


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