# Sexless marriage



## Confusedwife2022 (5 mo ago)

My husband and I have been together for over 21 years. He works hard, picks up extra shifts.. gives me anything and everything I could ask for.. except when it comes to the bedroom. He’s often too tired.. or comes home, sees us a few hours and then he’s off to bed. If I make comments about us being intimate, he will say he’s tired but is on board. Then the kids go to bed and he’s goes on about how he’s tired or about to go to bed. So then I don’t want to bother him. I’ve said oh I almost woke you up to do something, and he will tell me you should have! Is it because he knows I won’t? Because I won’t disturb his sleep when he gets up at 3:30 for work in the morning? Maybe!! He takes no initiative to do anything when i just mentioned doing something when my kids go to bed. We had this issue about 8-9 years ago.. we eventually separated over this, and soooo much more!!! Everyday we were seperated, he’d beg me to get back together. He’d call, he’d text, he’d show up! He tried to have sex with me everytime he saw me!! After 3 years we worked out our differences and things were great! I got pregnant and then things changed. Now here we are 2 years after my baby and we are still in the same boat! He tells me he’s so tired and I know he is, but like last night he was going to help my family member. Week before he helped my family. I didn’t ask him to do that! Hell he could tell them no! I’d be ok with that. But he will drop everything to help people, which I appreciate.. but what about me? I don’t feel like I’m a top priority any more! I have needs and wants that aren’t material! I’ve tried cute, clingy clothes, I’ve tried simple clothes, sexy.. just waiting for him to make a move and he don’t! I’m so afraid of rejection that I can’t even try to make the first move anymore. I can’t be rejected! I’m so hurt over it. I don’t think he’s cheating because honestly with work, the kids and all he is busy! He leaves his phone for me to use, or will ask me to get something out of it for him, etc. I’ve talked and talked till I just don’t know what to do anymore. I’ve lost weight, I hug him, kiss him, let him know I appreciate him.I’ll randomly text him I love him..every night just about, he gets a neck rub/head rub/back rub, I don’t know what else to do. We have sex once a month maybe, and if I say something maybe twice! It honestly makes me feel like it’s me! Like I’m not good enough. Or he’s not attracted. He gets mad and swears that’s not it.. but I can’t help but feel it’s me. I feel like most men would want a woman who wants it more often. He says he’s just tired, I say we’ll do you tell your nephew your tired when he asked for your help? Because when I text and say tonight? I gets a response of hopefully I don’t fall asleep! Wtf? I was upset! Then he said I didn’t mean it the way you took it.. how was I supposed to take it?? Advice is welcome!!


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

He needs to see his GP and get his testosterone checked.

Tired or not, if the woman that I love wants me sexually, she gets me. If you were my wife, and wanted sex twice a day, that's exactly what you would get. I might be 67 but I'm NOT dead yet!

As I said, he must have low T. You are doing everything you should to attract him to your bed!

JMHO.


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## Confusedwife2022 (5 mo ago)

ah_sorandy said:


> He needs to see his GP and get his testosterone checked.
> 
> Tired or not, if the woman that I love wants me sexually, she gets me. If you were my wife, and wanted sex twice a day, that's exactly what you would get. I might be 67 but I'm NOT dead yet!
> 
> ...


It’s so frustrating because he knows when we split so many guys, even guys close to him were calling me trying to hook up. So I don’t feel like I’m not attractive. He compliments me all the time. Doesn’t like that I go to the gym because he says guys look at me.. but yet here I am in front of him… I’m just asking for maybe once a week! I don’t feel like that’s too much to ask! But he drinks Entergy drinks all day to keep up with his busy schedule because he’s so tired. Then he gets home and he crashes! I try to be understanding that he’s tired. And I try to make his life so much less stressful. I’ll set his bath towel and clothes out him. I prep his coffee mug and keurig for him in the mornings.. I set his uniform out for him.. he does do a lot for me too.. but how do I not feel like it’s me when I bring it up and I get a response of hopefully I don’t fall asleep. That was an insult to me. So I’m that boring you’ll just fall asleep??? Then when we do have sex it’s great! He acts like it’s the best thing ever.. and I’ll even respond with, it’s always great, when we do it.. it just needs to happen more.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

GP and get testosterone test. Should also get ED meds if he needs them and possibly switch meds if something he is on is causing ED.

Should maybe also mention fatigue to GP.

If I am going 100% on workout, work, etc… all at the same time maybe twice a week I pass out at night, but I would probably have sex 2 times during the day if my wife was up for it and I’m not a spring chicken.


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## Confusedwife2022 (5 mo ago)

I just asked him if he would see his primary and let them check his testosterone and he said if that would make me happy he will go. He did take medicine for ADHD that he said killed his drive but he has stopped that for about 6 months due to the cost of the medicine. He said it didn’t help anyway.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Confusedwife2022 said:


> I just asked him if he would see his primary and let them check his testosterone and he said if that would make me happy he will go. He did take medicine for ADHD that he said killed his drive but he has stopped that for about 6 months due to the cost of the medicine. He said it didn’t help anyway.


Yet another woman with a man that won't have sex. It will never cease to amaze me. Never. 

He is lying to you about his adhd medicine. Straight up lying. I have severe adhd and have been medicated for 22 years now. I would have sex 2-3 times a day if possible. 

The fact that you already has to go through with this once with him says a lot. He's upset if other men look at you at the gym? Boo hoo. Tell him to tale care of business at home. So what if he's tired. That shouldn't have ANY bearing on whether a man will have sex or not. I'm dead tired at the end of my day. It takes nothing to get me excited for sex. I can get pulled out of a deep sleep and still be ready to go. 

I wouldn't give him yet another chance. Tell him to fix it now or you all can just be friends. He's putting you in a prison. He wants to guilt you by complaining about other men looking at you while giving you nothing.

Let him know that sex is #1 in the relationship. All the other things are great, but without sex, there's no reason to be married. Just be friends. 

As you can tell, I have no patience for men or women that put their partners in the prison of a dead bedroom. Doesn't matter which excuse it is, it is all crap.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

I feel your pain. I've been married for over 20 years to a man who has rarely wanted sex as often as me. Most of our marriage has been me wanting it and him "too tired" for it. He rejected me so much that I stopped initiating. Then he would go weeks or months between him initiating sex. Many months would average one to three times in a month, but less often also happened. I need at least once a week to not be miserable. 

It came to a head last year and I really made him see how miserable it makes me. We had several long heart-to-heart talks. At the same time last year, I found out that he was periodically using porn (and had been throughout our marriage). It's not something I was okay with. It made me feel unattractive and I tried to do things to increase his desire for me. It didn't work. I think the porn made him less attracted to me (although he claimed it didn't) and have less energy for me (after masturbating). I demanded it stop and I think it has. Since then, his drive has increased to once or twice a week and he shows more attraction to me. It didn't happen immediately and I don't know if it's from him being genuinely more interested in me or just trying to keep me happy. But, either way, we're closer now than we've been in a long time. 

I don't know if this is your husband's problem or not. It could be simply exhaustion. At least some of the lack of sex over the years of our marriage has truly been from that. It's hard to do something physically strenuous when you're body is dead tired. If this is the problem with your husband, make sure he's getting enough sleep. Then figure out what time of day he is most awake and initiate sex then (instead of saving it for bedtime). You may need to put a movie on for the kids and head to the bedroom in the middle of the day! Also, the energy drinks could be causing a problem. My husband used them too, but stopped after they negatively were affecting his health. Our improved sex life began afterwards. So that could be a factor.

I hope things improve for you soon!


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

There can be zillion reason why he does not want sex from medical to physiological. He may not find you attractive (it does not matter other men do). He may have medical issue that kills his sex drive. 

Unless he finds this a problem and he willing to do something about it I doubt you may change much.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> So what if he's tired. That shouldn't have ANY bearing on whether a man will have sex or not. I'm dead tired at the end of my day. It takes nothing to get me excited for sex. I can get pulled out of a deep sleep and still be ready to go.


This is the same for me. Even actual physical exhaustion I can power through it.

Now let’s say OP’s H has a serious illness or something causing him to be tired, this is why I am suggesting a complete physical and blood work.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is the same for me. Even actual physical exhaustion I can power through it.
> 
> Now let’s say OP’s H has a serious illness or something causing him to be tired, this is why I am suggesting a complete physical and blood work.


These are things that are always implied - in my opinion.

my main concern here is effort. All I see here is laziness as it pertains to this man towards his wife. Clearly, he has no problem putting in effort everywhere else in his life and leaves nothing left to put towards his wife. I know how that feels on the receiving end all too well. If he cared, he would have taken care of the problem a long time ago. I personally dont think this guy cares.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> These are things that are always implied - in my opinion.
> 
> my main concern here is effort. All I see here is laziness as it pertains to this man towards his wife. Clearly, he has no problem putting in effort everywhere else in his life and leaves nothing left to put towards his wife. I know how that feels on the receiving end all too well. If he cared, he would have taken care of the problem a long time ago. I personally dont think this guy cares.


Yeah probably not.

I know there was a time my wife had terrible migraines quite often. She saw a neurologist and I took her in to get a CT scan. So when she’s like
“I have a headache” well she actually did have a headache, a bad one.

I think in this case it’s the effort and you’re right on that.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Low T is what everyone knee jerks to.....Its rarely that...In fact, don't be surprised if after he does realize his T is so low, he starts treatment and finds some other woman to get that itch scratched...

Just assuming low T is feeding a false narrative that all a guy needs to have sex with any woman is a hard penis and some drive...That no other elements are needed...

Think about it for a minute....I don't know if its true for all guys, but I get BOMBARDED with ads for ED, test replacement, etc....Despite never having ED, and never researching a TRT clinic or any other crap,,,He knows clearly what he would need to do,,,,,,that is if he wanted to bother...He doesn't...so I see no point in trying to lead him by the hand...

Its probably one or a combination of reasons...

-No longer is attracted to OP...It could be physical, emotional, whatever,..The spark is gone, and it rarely comes back...If it does, its usually because it was forced or coerced...Ask yourself, OP, if you want that...Sad to say this, but there could be no other legit reason, but that he doesn't see you in a sexual manner anymore...Probably hasn't for a long time, if you have been dealing with this for as long as you say..
-Maybe he regrets this later in the game toddler.? ..Maybe he didn't want it, but you did? I don't know there..
-Overworked and stressed and sees himself as nothing more than a worker ant...Common among a lot of men with kids..

If more sex is what you want, I don't think this guy is going to be able to do that for you...If he does, its probably going to be with a gun to his head, as he did before...If that works for you, great,....He knows its being handed on a silver platter and he aint taking it...Don't buy the too tired crap...Like others stated, I could have nothing in the tank, yet still find time and initiative....Its not that....I could see if that was the case once in a while, but if its the standard excuse, its pure BS, or at the very least, its a sugar coated excuse for what the real issue is, because he can't tell you that...it would likely end the marriage...and he knows it...


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

.........Just out of curiosity....

Why do you refer to the kids and "your" kids and "my" baby.?

That's odd, just asking..


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> I feel your pain. I've been married for over 20 years to a man who has rarely wanted sex as often as me. Most of our marriage has been me wanting it and him "too tired" for it. He rejected me so much that I stopped initiating. Then he would go weeks or months between him initiating sex. Many months would average one to three times in a month, but less often also happened. I need at least once a week to not be miserable.
> 
> It came to a head last year and I really made him see how miserable it makes me. We had several long heart-to-heart talks. At the same time last year, I found out that he was periodically using porn (and had been throughout our marriage). It's not something I was okay with. It made me feel unattractive and I tried to do things to increase his desire for me. It didn't work. I think the porn made him less attracted to me (although he claimed it didn't) and have less energy for me (after masturbating). I demanded it stop and I think it has. Since then, his drive has increased to once or twice a week and he shows more attraction to me. It didn't happen immediately and I don't know if it's from him being genuinely more interested in me or just trying to keep me happy. But, either way, we're closer now than we've been in a long time.
> 
> ...


OMG, where were all you high needs women when I needed one. 

In my youth, I could go 3-4 times a day. Now, at age 67, I can still go at least twice a day. I have proven this to myself through masturbation!

It really sucks being in a sexless marriage. I waited far too long to leave.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Confusedwife2022 said:


> My husband and I have been together for over 21 years. He works hard, picks up extra shifts.. gives me anything and everything I could ask for.. except when it comes to the bedroom. He’s often too tired.. or comes home, sees us a few hours and then he’s off to bed. If I make comments about us being intimate, he will say he’s tired but is on board. Then the kids go to bed and he’s goes on about how he’s tired or about to go to bed. So then I don’t want to bother him.


Is it 'necessary' for your husband to pick extra shifts? He needs to understand that he has a life outside work and should make time for YOU at home.



Confusedwife2022 said:


> But he drinks Entergy drinks all day to keep up with his busy schedule because he’s so tired.


This is NOT good for his health. Ask any doctor.

Your husband really needs to cut down on his working hours and adopt healthy consumption habits.

You should discuss this matter with your husband.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

ah_sorandy said:


> OMG, where were all you high needs women when I needed one.
> 
> In my youth, I could go 3-4 times a day. Now, at age 67, I can still go at least twice a day. I have proven this to myself through masturbation!
> 
> It really sucks being in a sexless marriage. I waited far too long to leave.


A lot of us high needs women are stuck in marriages with low-needs men (or men who prefer porn and masturbation to a live, ready, and willing woman)!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> A lot of us high needs women are stuck in marriages with low-needs men (or men who prefer porn and masturbation to a live, ready, and willing woman)!


Many couples are mismatched. Just look how many posts there are here discussing it from both genders.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Many couples are mismatched. Just look how many posts there are here discussing it from both genders.


In my opinion, that's because they rush through the dating phase and don't take the time to get to know one another before getting married or shacking up. Takes a minimum of two years to really get to know someone.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diceplayer said:


> In my opinion, that's because they rush through the dating phase and don't take the time to get to know one another before getting married or shacking up. Takes a minimum of two years to really get to know someone.


Maybe...but the wife and I dated for many years and it still didn't help as "dating was hot, marriage is not."


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

Melinda82 said:


> A lot of us high needs women are stuck in marriages with low-needs men (or men who prefer porn and masturbation to a live, ready, and willing woman)!


Oh Melinda, I'd give anything to be with the woman I love right now. I'd give her all the sex she could handle. I sure to hell would rather have sex with a real live woman than to watch porn and masturbate.

Men who prefer porn and masturbation have something wrong with them in their brains! I want to be able to TOUCH and FEEL the woman I love for real. I would be all over her, in and out of our bed!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

My question is what is his history with women? Did he not feel accepted by females dating? Was he self conscience for any reason? Did he date actively or just hold back and use porn as his connection to women/sex? I too was in a sexless marriage and there was most definitely a history for a us both.

When I met my ex I had been divorced for 2 years from a serial cheater who could not get enough sex. My first husband wanted sex constantly and there was no room for me to go to him. When I met my second husband he was a "gentleman" in the sense that he pushed nothing on me. I became the initiator and I very much enjoyed it. It was a first for me but I also could not understand why he wasn't coming to me. He did not express feelings, he did not show affection, he loved the sex but aside from that it was kind of odd. He and I talked and he said that he had never been the initiator, that he felt women did not like him for anything more than friends. he did not ask girls out during the dating years of his life. He silently obsessed and used porn for his gratification and those habits that he set in his youth stayed. I thought I could make him feel comfortable to come to me but that did not happen. We went to counseling. The counselor told us both that normally when he saw couples like this that the male partner had been sexually abused and he wanted to meet with my husband privately to see if he could explore that possibility. As soon as the counselor said this my ex said he would not go back. He told me he knew his older sister had been sexually abused by an uncle and he did not want to go there.

My ex was very cut off emotionally. He could not/ would not speak to express his thoughts. Instead if I did something to upset him he would fall silent......passive-aggressive and covert control. The very first time he denied me sex was shortly after we married. I kept wanting to please and like you I did all kinds of things to get his attention....sexy clothes, under garmets, you name it. Oh he loved looking at other women, the younger the better. his obsessive way did not change after marriage. He created ways to speak with other women and get to know them well enough that he would invite them to lunch. So he cannot initiate with me but he can invite other women to lunch? We talked about this and he always had a justification which of course I did not buy. Everything was innocent in his words.

Our last marriage counselor told my husband that he was making no effort for his marriage and that his actions is seeking the attention of other women were destroying our marriage. he told the counselor he thought this was typical male behavior. Our counselor told him he considered this cheating as he was spending time pursuing women outside of the marriage. None of that changed anything. There was never a moment where the bell rang in his head and he got it. There was never an apology. I think he wanted a marriage like he saw between his parents and he expected me to put up with whatever he did. 

We had one last incident, sorry to ramble. I know your situation might not be the same but hopefully you can take away parts of this and see something in your own situation that you can identify with. We had just moved and we were swimming in moving boxes, 24 years of marriage we had accumulated quite a bit. He was sitting on the computer as usual. I asked him for help. he told me that his allergies were acting up and he didn't feel well so I continued to unpack boxes with our teen daughter. I checked his computer the next day and found he was going from one porn site to the next, all kinds of just disgusting trash. I was done! I contacted a very good counselor for myself. We have been divorced 6 years and I do still see him as someone with some very deep issues.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

AVR1962 said:


> My question is what is his history with women? Did he not feel accepted by females dating? Was he self conscience for any reason? Did he date actively or just hold back and use porn as his connection to women/sex? I too was in a sexless marriage and there was most definitely a history for a us both.
> 
> When I met my ex I had been divorced for 2 years from a serial cheater who could not get enough sex. My first husband wanted sex constantly and there was no room for me to go to him. When I met my second husband he was a "gentleman" in the sense that he pushed nothing on me. I became the initiator and I very much enjoyed it. It was a first for me but I also could not understand why he wasn't coming to me. He did not express feelings, he did not show affection, he loved the sex but aside from that it was kind of odd. He and I talked and he said that he had never been the initiator, that he felt women did not like him for anything more than friends. he did not ask girls out during the dating years of his life. He silently obsessed and used porn for his gratification and those habits that he set in his youth stayed. I thought I could make him feel comfortable to come to me but that did not happen. We went to counseling. The counselor told us both that normally when he saw couples like this that the male partner had been sexually abused and he wanted to meet with my husband privately to see if he could explore that possibility. As soon as the counselor said this my ex said he would not go back. He told me he knew his older sister had been sexually abused by an uncle and he did not want to go there.
> 
> ...


I don't know if the OP gained anything from your story, but I did. My husband is also very "cut off emotionally." It's hard to get him to open up about his feelings about anything. He usually just stays quiet and listens to me. Even if I pour my heart out and ask him point-blank questions, he won't speak up. I also wonder if he was sexually abused as a child. He denies it, but his sisters say they were, and he has a very strained relationship with the relative in question. So maybe men who are emotionally scarred in childhood and/or who have poor emotional interaction skills prefer porn to initiating sex? It's something for me to think about.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Maybe...but the wife and I dated for many years and it still didn't help as "dating was hot, marriage is not."


I think marriage can be very hot, IF both partners are high drive. The problem is most people are high drive while they're dating. But then the low drive people show their true colors after marriage, giving the high drive partner the bait-and-switch.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Melinda82 said:


> I don't know if the OP gained anything from your story, but I did. My husband is also very "cut off emotionally." It's hard to get him to open up about his feelings about anything. He usually just stays quiet and listens to me. Even if I pour my heart out and ask him point-blank questions, he won't speak up. I also wonder if he was sexually abused as a child. He denies it, but his sisters say they were, and he has a very strained relationship with the relative in question. So maybe men who are emotionally scarred in childhood and/or who have poor emotional interaction skills prefer porn to initiating sex? It's something for me to think about.


What I learned through marriage counseling is that it is typical for a person who has been sexually abused to go one way or the other....refuse sex or become hyper or they might be one way for awhile and then switch but they are extreme. in his situation he had had a burn accident which left scars on his body and he was very self conscience and I think rather than risk questions and humiliation he chose to stay away from girls in the dating stage of his youth and turned to porn. I think it was there he formed a very unhealthy relationship with woman and porn. 

In general men are taught to show little emotion but with my ex it was a little different. He could not relate realistically in speaking about his family which I found very strange. His family and his children were perfect. It wasn't a matter of acceptance. they were flawless but mine had issues. If the kids or I would ask him a question he would just act as if he did not hear it and would not even acknowledge us. If I was talking about something, any topic, he would just leave the room without a word. Conversation was very difficult, like you, I too would ask direct questions but not get a direct answer. Infact, I could ask the same question 5 different times and get 5 different answers. He was all about impressing friends if they came over for dinner. Suddenly he was the gracious host and cook. I always loved it when we had company as I saw a whole different side to my husband! He took great pleasure in other's discomfort and he was notorious for his silent game. He lacked compassion. He thought of himself and what he had to do for his gain. He was obviously passive-aggressive and my counselor said he was narcissistic.

I was not sure if I would be able to communicate properly once I divorced and moved on. Being with my ex I realized there was so much I could not express without it being used on me in a negative way later. I learned I could not trust the man so I had distanced myself and I wondered if I could be close to anyone again. I was with him for 27 years so habits were very well ingrained between the two of us. 6 years after divorce I can say I have been able to move on. I am very cautious now. I do struggle with some fears and communication is not quite here I would like it to be but I am getting there.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Maybe...but the wife and I dated for many years and it still didn't help as "dating was hot, marriage is not."


Sometimes what happens after the courtship is we go back to who we were before. It is almost like the courtship was a means to get to the goal and once the goal was achieved we are now allowed to concentrate in other areas of our life. You hear people say that once they said their vows it was like a switch was flipped. In my own situation the courtship was a time when my ex actually did things for me, showed interest in me but it seemed once he knew he had me after we married he was back to his single ways and it felt like I was the housekeeper and nanny.


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## HouseDad-NestEmpty (6 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Is it 'necessary' for your husband to pick extra shifts? He needs to understand that he has a life outside work and should make time for YOU at home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Energy drinks damage the liver, kidneys, and adrenal glands while causing chronic sleep disruption and inviting more health problems. Seriously. He needs to stop drinking those things. I don't know whether there is something else going on that's zapping his sex drive, but unless you get the peak of his caffeine high in the bedroom, his body and brain could be crashed by the time you crawl under the covers together.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> I think marriage can be very hot, IF both partners are high drive. The problem is most people are high drive while they're dating. But then the low drive people show their true colors after marriage, giving the high drive partner the bait-and-switch.


Sigh.

if only the low drive people would make themselves known instead of roping high drive people into marriages/LTR. It is so infuriating. I wish low drive people would seek out each other so that they can enjoy not having sex with each other all day.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Sigh.
> 
> if only the low drive people would make themselves known instead of roping high drive people into marriages/LTR. It is so infuriating. I wish low drive people would seek out each other so that they can enjoy not having sex with each other all day.


I think that new relationship energy brings out the most in many low drive people. Then they get bored because they’re low drive. If that relationship ends and they start a new relationship then the new relationship energy will come back — until they’re bored again. Some very low drive people never really get into it under any circumstances and that’s a different story altogether.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Openminded said:


> I think that new relationship energy brings out the most in many low drive people. Then they get bored because they’re low drive. If that relationship ends and they start a new relationship then the new relationship energy will come back — until they’re bored again. Some very low drive people never really get into it under any circumstances and that’s a different story altogether.


Low drive people need to have a sign on their heads that says “will take away sex once you are hooked”.

there problem solved.😂


but seriously, there is no excuse. At the end of the day it is a bait and switch. I don’t care if low drive people enjoy new relationship energy. They need to enjoy that with other low drive people and stop wasting everyone else’s time.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Low drive people need to have a sign on their heads that says “will take away sex once you are hooked”.
> 
> there problem solved.😂
> 
> ...


Everything else going right doesn’t work when that critical part is missing. TAM is full of those stories.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Sigh.
> 
> if only the low drive people would make themselves known instead of roping high drive people into marriages/LTR. It is so infuriating. I wish low drive people would seek out each other so that they can enjoy not having sex with each other all day.


Yeah, I've said exactly that to my husband, more than once. I said somewhere out there there's a woman who's his perfect match and would be happy with his twice a month. And somewhere out there there's a man who's my perfect match and would be happy to have me every day of the week! (Heck, I'm content with two or three times a week.) But instead of finding them, we found each other. 

He told me maybe I should go find him.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Melinda82 said:


> He told me maybe I should go find him.


That’d be it for me.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Melinda82 said:


> Yeah, I've said exactly that to my husband, more than once. I said somewhere out there there's a woman who's his perfect match and would be happy with his twice a month. And somewhere out there there's a man who's my perfect match and would be happy to have me every day of the week! (Heck, I'm content with two or three times a week.) But instead of finding them, we found each other.
> 
> He told me maybe I should go find him.


I have to agree with CC on this one. The fact that he said that to you would be it for me. 

Twice a month. That is what I got. That is most certainly a dead bedroom. It is a miserable experience. It is a slow and painful death. 

Yeah, I'm the same as you. Every day. Twice a day. That would be my preference. 

HEY!!!!! I just had a GREAT idea. I have the perfect woman for your husband. My exwife! She LOVES not having sex! She and your husband would be great together. They could spend a lot of time just holding hands or NOT making any physical contact at all! Plus, she will throw in the added bonus of NOT speaking about anything more serious than what is going on with current weather conditions. If anything comes up in conversation more serious than that, she will run away. Literally! They could spend time together doing a whole lot of nothing all day. They both would be in heaven!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> Yeah, I've said exactly that to my husband, more than once. I said somewhere out there there's a woman who's his perfect match and would be happy with his twice a month. And somewhere out there there's a man who's my perfect match and would be happy to have me every day of the week! (Heck, I'm content with two or three times a week.) But instead of finding them, we found each other.
> 
> He told me maybe I should go find him.


What did you want him to say after you told him that? What were you hoping to hear from him?


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Yeah, I've said exactly that to my husband, more than once. I said somewhere out there there's a woman who's his perfect match and would be happy with his twice a month. And somewhere out there there's a man who's my perfect match and would be happy to have me every day of the week! (Heck, I'm content with two or three times a week.) But instead of finding them, we found each other.
> 
> He told me maybe I should go find him.


Twice a month? Jesus! I need it twice a day…


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

JBLH said:


> Twice a month? Jesus! I need it twice a day…


Twice a month is his average. He's gone weeks or months without--many times over the years. Often it would be two or three times in a week or two and then nothing for 4 to 6 weeks.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> That’d be it for me.


He said it in a sad tone of voice, not a rude one. It was after a long, intense conversation on our lack of a sex life. If he had said it in a sincere, pissed off, get lost kind of voice, I wouldn't have forgiven him for it.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> What did you want him to say after you told him that? What were you hoping to hear from him?


You're right. It probably wasn't the wisest thing to say when trying to sort out our differences. I have a bad habit of being completely honest and at the time I was thinking how mismatched we were for each other and how many women out there would be fine with his lower sex drive and how many men would be happy with my higher sex drive. He wasn't mad at me when he said it, just sad at our lack of compatibility.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I have to agree with CC on this one. The fact that he said that to you would be it for me.
> 
> Twice a month. That is what I got. That is most certainly a dead bedroom. It is a miserable experience. It is a slow and painful death.
> 
> ...


I told my husband I feel sex is like eating, something necessary for your body that you should make time for every day. But I can survive on once a week (sex, not eating ). Even twice a month, if it was once every two weeks, although not enough to keep me from being frustrated sexually, at least it would be a fairly regular emotional connection as a couple. I wouldn't feel completely ignored. But he would often go 4 to 6 weeks (or more) before a week with 2 or 3 enthusiastic sexual encounters. Only to start the cycle all over again. Talk about miserable.

The sad thing is my husband probably would be happy with a wife like that--especially if she didn't mind him watching and getting off to porn. If he's not in the mood for sex, he also doesn't usually give me much physical contact/affection. And he prefers talking about daily routine stuff. When I bring up relationship issues, he sits there and listens, but usually doesn't speak. And he has occasionally run away, too!


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Twice a month is his average. He's gone weeks or months without--many times over the years. Often it would be two or three times in a week or two and then nothing for 4 to 6 weeks.


Fist of all, he has to exercise!!!

Secondly, he has to monitor his testosterone levels. I get rock hard boners early in the morning and then another spike after I do the Peloton at 1PM. If he synchronizes his testosterone spikes with sexual activity he will not have any issues, trust me (at the top of the spike he will literally want to have sex unbathed). If his base testosterone level is low then he has to get a prescription for the injections.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Melinda82 said:


> Yeah, I've said exactly that to my husband, more than once. I said somewhere out there there's a woman who's his perfect match and would be happy with his twice a month. And somewhere out there there's a man who's my perfect match and would be happy to have me every day of the week! (Heck, I'm content with two or three times a week.) But instead of finding them, we found each other.
> 
> He told me maybe I should go find him.


My LD wife told me the same thing. I wish I had a wife who wanted me 2-3 times a week if not every day.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diceplayer said:


> In my opinion, that's because they rush through the dating phase and don't take the time to get to know one another before getting married or shacking up. Takes a minimum of two years to really get to know someone.


We lived together for 5 years before getting married and that didn't mean anything. Her libido dropped after 10 years... it is what it is.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

HouseDad-NestEmpty said:


> Energy drinks damage the liver, kidneys, and adrenal glands while causing chronic sleep disruption and inviting more health problems. Seriously. He needs to stop drinking those things. I don't know whether there is something else going on that's zapping his sex drive, but unless you get the peak of his caffeine high in the bedroom, his body and brain could be crashed by the time you crawl under the covers together.


It's usually bad diet.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> We lived together for 5 years before getting married and that didn't mean anything. Her libido dropped after 10 years... it is what it is.


This is why I don't see it as a libido issue....I see it as a CARING issue, which is a core relationship issue. It's about selfishness, which we see over and over is the cancer of relationships.

Her libido dropped and she didn't CARE about meeting your needs anymore.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> This is why I don't see it as a libido issue....I see it as a CARING issue, which is a core relationship issue. It's about selfishness, which we see over and over is the cancer of relationships.
> 
> Her libido dropped and she didn't CARE about meeting your needs anymore.


A lot of times when libido drops it is not just a general loss, it's specific to the person


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> You're right. It probably wasn't the wisest thing to say when trying to sort out our differences. I have a bad habit of being completely honest and at the time I was thinking how mismatched we were for each other and how many women out there would be fine with his lower sex drive and how many men would be happy with my higher sex drive. He wasn't mad at me when he said it, just sad at our lack of compatibility.


You didn't answer the question... 

It's not that it wasn't wise...it just wasn't direct. You wanted to make a point, you wanted him to understand your feelings. But being indirect didn't accomplish that the way you wanted.

Think about it...when you said that to him, what were you HOPING he would say? What did you need from him in that moment?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Her libido dropped and she didn't CARE about meeting your needs anymore.


That's correct. Her mental issues didn't help either.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> A lot of times when libido drops it is not just a general loss, it's specific to the person


You mean, to the person the low-libido partner is with...so their desire only drops for THAT person...is that what you mean?

Because in that case, it's even more about being selfish!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> That's correct. Her mental issues didn't help either.


Right, of course. So for her, it wasn't about selfishness that was a character flaw, necessarily (although it might have been as well).


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> You mean, to the person the low-libido partner is with...so their desire only drops for THAT person...is that what you mean?
> 
> Because in that case, it's even more about being selfish!


Exactly. It's not that they don't want sex, they just don't want sex with their partner.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> Right, of course. So for her, it wasn't about selfishness that was a character flaw, necessarily (although it might have been as well).


Actually, I think with my wife was a mix of selfishness (always been rather selfish - not very caring towards me or anybody else, for that matter - I think that was a defence mechanism, though), mental issues and a physical drop in libido - a lethal combination. But the cherry on the cake is that she didn't communicate with me, so it all went rather wrong...


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Actually, I think with my wife was a mix of selfishness (always been rather selfish - not very caring towards me or anybody else, for that matter - I think that was a defence mechanism, though), mental issues and a physical drop in libido - a lethal combination. But the cherry on the cake is that she didn't communicate with me, so it all went rather wrong...


You just won the Partner Lottery, didn't you!!! 

And that's why I don't think you could have changed the outcome, even if you didn't get angry and demanding with her (like you regret now). NOTHING works with a person like she is/was. They take advantage of people when they are nice to them, and they fight with people who try to set boundaries. My EX was exactly the same way.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> Exactly. It's not that they don't want sex, they just don't want sex with their partner.


RIGHT. But they still want that partner to meet all THEIR needs...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

LisaDiane said:


> You just won the Partner Lottery, didn't you!!!
> 
> And that's why I don't think you could have changed the outcome, even if you didn't get angry and demanding with her (like you regret now). NOTHING works with a person like she is/was. They take advantage of people when they are nice to them, and they fight with people who try to set boundaries. My EX was exactly the same way.


No, nothing would have changed. After a few years apart, it's very clear in my head. Of course I regret some of my actions, but I became pretty desperate and my own abandonment issues kicked in. I also used alcohol as a crutch for some months and that made things a lot worse. Shame, because the first 15 years were really good. Then she got pretty ill, and she still is, although she does a good job at hiding it. It must be terrible living like that.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

My LD wife has been making suggestive comments and faces at me this morning. She knows it pisses me off because I know she’s only patronizing me. I mention what I want (oral) and she tells me sarcastically to get a girlfriend if that’s what I want as it’s what they do in porn and she does not do that. She still insists that the majority of women hate BJs and don’t like the thought of it. 

I just wish she would stop teasing me with her comments and looks. I already have self esteem issues because she doesn’t find me sexually desirable.


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## Wifey93 (9 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> My LD wife told me the same thing. I wish I had a wife who wanted me 2-3 times a week if not every day.


Can you drop me a PM GoodDad5? 

I begin to realise how challenging it will be to have sex with my husband knowing he is not really into it… Big part of sex for me if seeing my partner enjoying himself. Don’t want to wonder if he’s pretending or not. 😪


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Anyone else have constant arguments with their spouses over this? I feel like I have had the same argument for years with no fix.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

GoodDad5 said:


> Anyone else have constant arguments with their spouses over this? I feel like I have had the same argument for years with no fix.


I did and nothing got fixed. I got duty sex twice a month for 10 years until she dumped our sex life when I wasn't needed any more.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> Anyone else have constant arguments with their spouses over this? I feel like I have had the same argument for years with no fix.


I'm in the reverse situation as I'm a wife who wants more from her husband. It's terribly hurtful to not feel wanted. We haven't had really any arguments per se because I try to approach him in a kind and loving way, and I'm doing the best I can to be understanding as I don't want the sex to decrease more! But it's been going on for over 2 years. I talk to him about it, usually in tears because I can't help but feel emotional and hurt. He tries to make changes that last a few weeks, and in a few weeks, I'm back to feeling frustrated again as the frequency slowly dwindles. The cycle is terrible. It hurts more every time we hit the low-frequency part of the cycle. We're currently in a "better" part of the cycle after having recently discussed the issue, so here I am hoping again that the changes are permanent or that even more improvement can take place. I probably need to ask him to get T checked but haven't yet as things are once again going better, and I know he's probably going to feel insulted by my asking regardless of how kind I am in doing so. We don't have "constant" talks, but I think that's only because I struggle to raise the emotional energy I need to talk about it yet again. I'm bad about waiting until I'm in crisis mode to address it. I'm striving to be better at communicating what I'm feeling, though. I want to see lasting improvement, and probably the only way is for me to keep communicating. But yeah, we certainly seem to be stuck like you are. . .


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## Wifey93 (9 mo ago)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I'm in the reverse situation as I'm a wife who wants more from her husband. It's terribly hurtful to not feel wanted. We haven't had really any arguments per se because I try to approach him in a kind and loving way, and I'm doing the best I can to be understanding as I don't want the sex to decrease more! But it's been going on for over 2 years. I talk to him about it, usually in tears because I can't help but feel emotional and hurt. He tries to make changes that last a few weeks, and in a few weeks, I'm back to feeling frustrated again as the frequency slowly dwindles. The cycle is terrible. It hurts more every time we hit the low-frequency part of the cycle. We're currently in a "better" part of the cycle after having recently discussed the issue, so here I am hoping again that the changes are permanent or that even more improvement can take place. I probably need to ask him to get T checked but haven't yet as things are once again going better, and I know he's probably going to feel insulted by my asking regardless of how kind I am in doing so. We don't have "constant" talks, but I think that's only because I struggle to raise the emotional energy I need to talk about it yet again. I'm bad about waiting until I'm in crisis mode to address it. I'm striving to be better at communicating what I'm feeling, though. I want to see lasting improvement, and probably the only way is for me to keep communicating. But yeah, we certainly seem to be stuck like you are. . .


Welcome to the club …

I wish I was able to just carry on as normal, but I’m struggling to keep the happy appearance in other areas of our relationship. 

I know he needs me to be loving and affectionate during the day, but there has been many occasions that I was exactly that and more, yet, he still wasn’t up for sex. So after a while I struggle to put the effort in on my end, because what’s the point? 
The outcome is the same 9 times out of 10.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Wifey93 said:


> Welcome to the club …
> 
> I wish I was able to just carry on as normal, but I’m struggling to keep the happy appearance in other areas of our relationship.
> 
> ...


I got told that the only time I want to be touched is when I want sex which is not true. I do wish we had sex more often but I feel so touch starved even outside of that. I feel like I have to squash a desire for me because she finds it disgusting.


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> You didn't answer the question...
> 
> It's not that it wasn't wise...it just wasn't direct. You wanted to make a point, you wanted him to understand your feelings. But being indirect didn't accomplish that the way you wanted.
> 
> Think about it...when you said that to him, what were you HOPING he would say? What did you need from him in that moment?


I can't find the scratching one's head emoji. I really don't know. I was just saying what I was thinking. I wasn't trying to elicit some particular response from him. I don't know what the best possible response would have been. Maybe if he'd said, "I want to be that perfect man for you," or "I really do want you more often, I just don't act on it."


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I’ve definitely noticed I’ve been more cranky since I expressed my frustration on this. I just get back more anger from her when I try talking to her about it. It’s spread into other aspects of our relationship now.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

GoodDad5 said:


> Anyone else have constant arguments with their spouses over this? I feel like I have had the same argument for years with no fix.


The way out of the quagmire is to decide you’re not tolerating it anymore.

I had this conversation with my wife once and when I decided to finally have it I had prepared myself for any outcome including divorce. I had a timeline in mind (3 months) and if she had not taken significant strides towards fixing the situation I was ready to bail.

It has been years now since that discussion and we’ve had some kind of sex 5 out of the last 7 days.

So it is possible to change the situation but it depends on the exact people involved. As IA said above, it didn’t matter what he did; if one or both people have mental issues or something that’s it.

The fix has to come from both people desiring not to separate and making changes to become better partners.

BTW during that discussion she said all the typical zingers:

_It’s just not a priority for me.

I don’t think about it.

I’m not a person who has sex everyday._

Whatever… I didn’t care why she wasn’t doing it. Think about this thought experiment along the lines of what Numb is saying.

If you separated would she:

1. Be able to find another partner?
2. Have sex with that partner, probably a lot?

I asked myself these questions and the answer was yes and yes. There was nothing wrong with her other than she got comfortable and lazy in the relationship and didn’t notice my attempts to repair things for the two years prior to that.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> The way out of the quagmire is to decide you’re not tolerating it anymore.
> 
> I had this conversation with my wife once and when I decided to finally have it I had prepared myself for any outcome including divorce. I had a timeline in mind (3 months) and if she had not taken significant strides towards fixing the situation I was ready to bail.
> 
> ...


What CC said here cannot be stressed enough.

everyone dealing with dead bedrooms must come to this conclusion and be willing to allow whatever outcome happens in their marriage.

my luck ran out. I said in no uncertain terms that a dead bedroom cannot return to my marriage. My exwife decided that was too much to handle and bailed. Divorce sucks. It really does…… but I have to laugh a bit here. The weight that gets removed from the high drive partner is so nice. It’s only a matter of time before I venture out again. I know there are plenty of high drive women that would be a good fit for me. I’m not too worried about it.

you just have to get yourself to a point where you don’t want to beat your head against the wall any more.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> The way out of the quagmire is to decide you’re not tolerating it anymore.
> 
> I had this conversation with my wife once and when I decided to finally have it I had prepared myself for any outcome including divorce. I had a timeline in mind (3 months) and if she had not taken significant strides towards fixing the situation I was ready to bail.
> 
> ...


How did you go about the discussion? I feel like I’m in a circle with this.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Divorce sucks. It really does…… but I have to laugh a bit here. The weight that gets removed from the high drive partner is so nice. It’s only a matter of time before I venture out again. I know there are plenty of high drive women that would be a good fit for me. I’m not too worried about it.


Exactly.

You are an educated man with a lot to offer and it will be easy for you when you are ready.

Yes it is sad, but I had a couple years thinking about it before I was like ok that’s it. I was still sad anyway. Eventually there is a light at the end of the tunnel I expect.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

GoodDad5 said:


> How did you go about the discussion? I feel like I’m in a circle with this.


We were eating lunch at home and I had written out a list of things I want for our sexual relationship.

Before I read it to her I said hey I get it if this is too much for you or you’re not into it or whatever and that is fine, but if that is the case we’re not going to be together in the future. So if there’s anything wrong with me that is preventing these things let me know and I will correct it.

Then there was all the normal stuff coming back from her. “It’s not a priority for me.” Whatever I barely even tried to react even though some of the stuff she said was painful. You see, I had already been giving my best effort for a long time to speak to her in her love languages. I read every book. There was nothing left for me to do other than confront her and see if she wanted to be together or not.

I think she was shocked a bit by it but she saw the truth in what I was saying. Husband and wife are supposed to be screwing. She admitted that coming out of that talk and that was the basis we used to grow back from.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> We were eating lunch at home and I had written out a list of things I want for our sexual relationship.
> 
> Before I read it to her I said hey I get it if this is too much for you or you’re not into it or whatever and that is fine, but if that is the case we’re not going to be together in the future. So if there’s anything wrong with me that is preventing these things let me know and I will correct it.
> 
> ...


I tip my hat.....

I think if she had said that stuff to me, that I would get let down and not really want to put any more effort, for fear that if she did decide to come around, that it would only be because I confronted her about it....I would imagine that thought crosses your mind? or did her actions put your mind at ease?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> I tip my hat.....
> 
> I think if she had said that stuff to me, that I would get let down and not really want to put any more effort, for fear that if she did decide to come around, that it would only be because I confronted her about it....I would imagine that thought crosses your mind? or did her actions put your mind at ease?


You can tell. It took a few months and during that time I doubled down on my love language stuff for her. If she was pulling away I would 180 in response and she’d notice.

I still do that somewhat. She prioritizes stupid work crap or whatever or she doesn’t come to bed and I wake up at 2am when Fox and Friends First comes on and she’s tapping away on her stupid phone. Basically I don’t tolerate it. So she’ll go through periods of stress and I give her some rope but eventually if she doesn’t show up a few days in a row I change how I react to her. She always notices.

We go out together and she sees how other women react to me and such and it lights a fire for her.

She’s not a liar. She really could generally care less about sex and she never thinks about it. That’s actually fine for me as long as she knows I think about it all the time and want her and she needs to do something about it or there is no US.

She is like the books that talk about responsive desire. In her 20s and early 30s she had much more spontaneous desire but not anymore. I don’t care either way.

As an example last night around bed she was like “oh I need to do this work thing”. She came to bed anyway and I held her and listened to all her troubles. She is on her period and was like hey I bet you want me to suck you off? Answer: YES!!!

So she figured it out.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> How did you go about the discussion? I feel like I’m in a circle with this.





ccpowerslave said:


> We were eating lunch at home and I had written out a list of things I want for our sexual relationship.
> 
> Before I read it to her I said hey I get it if this is too much for you or you’re not into it or whatever and that is fine, but if that is the case we’re not going to be together in the future. So if there’s anything wrong with me that is preventing these things let me know and I will correct it.
> 
> ...


This right here, GD5. 

CC was ready to hear the news if it went the other way. Plain and simple. His wife could also tell he was ready. She realized that it was worth coming to common ground with CC to keep the marriage. 

My ex-wife knew I was ready as well. That's why she bailed. She knew there was no way I was going back to prison. Not a chance. 


This is the place you need to be. If you don't get to this point, the low drive partner will continue to have all the power in the relationship instead of it being an equal partnership. Your wife right now knows she has all the power. All she needs to do is deal with a little bit of complaining from time to time. That's it. Throw in some guilt tripping, manipulation and some gas lighting (low drive spouses are MASTERS of this), and she can keep you in a marriage where all of her needs are met and you continually die a slow, miserable death.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP, there is no figuring out how to begin to have the conversation. You either have it or you don't.

Speaking as someone who also brought a dead bedroom marriage back to life, I can tell you that conversation will not matter one bit unless you are truly ready to walk if she simply refuses.

Without outcome independence, all you are doing is bluffing. Women can smell a bluff a mile away, especially from an insecure man.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Listen well to FSJ he has walked the walk.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

farsidejunky said:


> OP, there is no figuring out how to begin to have the conversation. You either have it or you don't.
> 
> Speaking as someone who also brought a dead bedroom marriage back to life, I can tell you that conversation will not matter one bit unless you are truly ready to walk if she simply refuses.
> 
> ...


Again, much respect....I gotta admit though, I could never put a knee on a woman's neck to have sex with me...regardless of the outcome...it would end long before it got to that ....

It does bring up a topic, probably for another thread...

It is seemingly crazy that there isn't some other way around this issue...Marriage otherwise good, good compatibility, parenting, etc....

The two choice remain (if we leave out getting it on the street and keeping status quo)...

!) Force a change 
2) Leave 

Its really nuts when you stop to think about it....You don't want to force or coerce anyone, but then you have to leave and blow your life up...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> The two choice remain (if we leave out getting it on the street and keeping status quo)...
> 
> !) Force a change
> 2) Leave
> ...


I think maybe the language is the issue here. I’d say it is simple:

*Husband and wife is a sexual relationship.*

That’s it. 

If you can agree on that then the sexual distancer in the relationship needs to figure out if they want to stay married or not. Nobody is “forced” to do anything.

When I came to this realization and how to explain it I was in full awareness that many changes may need to happen on my part to make that come to pass and I explained that to her, but if she wanted to have a marriage then she also needed to make changes because of the bolded part above.

So there is no forcing about it. It’s a choice, just like choosing to be together in the first place is a choice.

The second part though, “leave and blow your life up” yeah pretty much. But then again if it’s important to you then why not? The alternative is being married to someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you.

Think about that one?

I don’t want to be the guy in the story where he’s sitting there jerking off to porn because his wife won’t have sex with him. No offense to people in that situation because I was there myself, but I decided to NOT be that person.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Again, much respect....I gotta admit though, I could never put a knee on a woman's neck to have sex with me...regardless of the outcome...it would end long before it got to that ....
> 
> It does bring up a topic, probably for another thread...
> 
> ...


My exwife told me to my face “I’ve never been in love. I don’t know what love is.”

but She told me that she did and thus, I married her.

is that coercion any different?


it’s become blantantly obvious to me over the past 6 months that I was a means to an end. Me requiring a sexual relationship in my marriage seems paltry compared to the actions she took.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think maybe the language is the issue here. I’d say it is simple:
> 
> *Husband and wife is a sexual relationship.*
> 
> ...


Ok,,,,,

But without your intervention, she probably wouldn't have changed, no?? And even as it is now, from what you are saying, she often has to be "reminded" or she would just read a book or whatever....

Again, don't misinterpret my query...I am thrilled for you, or anyone else, that managed to navigate their way to get things the way they want in their marriage...

Maybe the best way I can put it is this...If I go to a restaurant and the food or service sucked, I don't do or say anything about it, I won't call the manager or Maitre'd, ill pay the bill and never go back there again.. I can work with a partner of anything that I don't think is right, but when it comes to the topic of sex, it would have to be the type of thing where there is mutual interest or desire(or she could have more than me), or I don't think i can work with it....Id just get let down, probably because I don't want any woman to be sexual unless they* really *want to be....


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> My exwife told me to my face “I’ve never been in love. I don’t know what love is.”
> 
> but She told me that she did and thus, I married her.
> 
> ...


No, buddy,,,,its the same, as a matter of fact it sounds like a bait and switch, which is worse...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> But without your intervention, she probably wouldn't have changed, no?? And even as it is now, from what you are saying, she often has to be "reminded" or she would just read a book or whatever....


Yeah of course she wouldn’t have changed.

She has spontaneous desire maybe 1-2x a month and that’s it. That’s where she would behave like me, when she’s coming to bed intent to screw and she is going to initiate.

What I asked is that she is available and open to the idea of me initiating and that she participate. Then for my part in it, I try to give her what she needs.

Is she forcing me to do that? I wouldn’t say so because it’s mutually beneficial.

If she never thought of having sex spontaneously but she feeds off my desire for her and ends up getting into it and enjoying it I am happy with that. She’s not 23 anymore and we have been together a very long time.

The reminder comes because we started at a place where we were having sex all the time, multiple times per day.

I remember when we were dating she came to my apartment in the afternoon and she was wearing a sun dress. Had sex on the floor and got rug burns. Drove to her place for something and I could still smell the sex from earlier and boom as soon as we’re inside at it again. I still remember the exact dress, what panties she was wearing, and even how it smelled in the car. This was over 25 years ago and I still have a picture of that day in my head. She can’t remember any of it.

How I remember that day is probably completely different than what hers would be. Her memory would probably be what she did in the morning and what she actually went to get from her place and what we did after. I don’t even remember what we did after.

So we’re not the same but she contains that inside her somewhere and I know it is there because hey I was there. I can see fleeting moments of it now from time to time.

Maybe 6 months after we had “the talk” I had another experience like that day where we went out and had a nice lunch and drove on a road she had never been on. When we got back home and got inside she basically attacked me in the kitchen and we ended up having sex three times in an hour until my junk wore out. As it turned out she had on a pair of panties I bought her and was sneakily wearing them all day and then boom it was on.

Why? I can’t explain it. What was the difference that day versus any other? No clue. I don’t even try anymore I just accept it and enjoy.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Me requiring a sexual relationship in my marriage seems paltry compared to the actions she took.


It’s true by definition. Marriage is a sexual relationship. It’s a requirement by definition. Once that is sorted out then things follow naturally.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> Id just get let down, probably because I don't want any woman to be sexual unless they* really *want to be....


Fair enough but what does that mean in real life?

You can’t read people’s thoughts.

If your partner comes to bed and initiates and does everything you want it could be for any number of reasons. To you it appears like they’re super into the sex. Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t. Maybe some days they are, but other days they’re going through the motions to make you happy. You can’t know, because you can’t read thoughts.

I think the people who show up on TAM who are hung up on this kind of thinking are generally not happy people. 

“I want my wife to initiate more.” shows up here again and again, but why? “How can a woman show sexual desire to her man?” another recent thread where a guy is complaining to his partner that she’s not initiating how he wants.

If your partner is not at the same libido level where they’re horny the same amount and will have spontaneous desire to initiate then how do you make that work?

You make it work by having the sexual distancer be available and open to the idea of having sex.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Fair enough but what does that mean in real life?
> 
> You can’t read people’s thoughts.
> 
> ...


You cannot control how another person feels or what they think. That is the core of these issues; they want control. It's not enough for the partner to DO what they want, they have to FEEL and THINK the way they want also. It's about power and control. They want to own that person so completely that they have no feeling, thought or impulse that isn't under their direction. It's impossible to do. If you're getting what you want and you're still complaining because you don't think the other person is "x" enough, then that person will never be "x" enough.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You cannot control how another person feels or what they think. That is the core of these issues; they want control. It's not enough for the partner to DO what they want, they have to FEEL and THINK the way they want also. It's about power and control.


I think this is exactly right.

Once you need to control the feelings and motivations of someone to be like the picture in your head, what even is that?

This is why I don’t require anything other than being open to the idea of sex and then let things transpire or not and then I make sure to enjoy whatever happens and let her know.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> So she figured it out.


Glad this worked for you. What happens when menopause arrives, the hormones stop, and her whole demeanor changes? 


hamadryad said:


> Again, much respect....I gotta admit though, I could never put a knee on a woman's neck to have sex with me...regardless of the outcome...it would end long before it got to that ...


I am in your camp. If wife doesn’t want to share sex with me because SHE wants to, then that is fine. Will figure out my response at that time. At our age, could imagine that possibility exists before one of us exits this planet. Right now my thoughts are will just live on happy memories and wait for the dirt nap.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You cannot control how another person feels or what they think. That is the core of these issues; they want control. It's not enough for the partner to DO what they want, they have to FEEL and THINK the way they want also. It's about power and control. They want to own that person so completely that they have no feeling, thought or impulse that isn't under their direction. It's impossible to do. If you're getting what you want and you're still complaining because you don't think the other person is "x" enough, then that person will never be "x" enough.



This is the most ridiculous post I have ever read on this site.....and that's saying a LOT....

Of course no one can control what someone else feels or what they think...... 

In fact, what I am contending is the _exact opposite or control...._

ALL its about is knowing that your partner feels the same way you do about issues of sex....If that's about control, then I don't know why anyone would even bother to date, quite frankly...That the level of desire is on the same level....That I didn't need to "sit her down and tell her that if this or that doesn't change then she was going to be looking at divorce papers"...I'd never have that conversation....To me, that would be pointless, because the best scenario I could hope for at that point is duty sex or feigned interest.....No thanks....And I know that there are women that would tell a guy to stick it up his ass and get the divorce papers started if he threatened her with a divorce over it....

To state it again....if that's what it took for them, and it worked out, great...Its just not for me...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Glad this worked for you. What happens when menopause arrives, the hormones stop, and her whole demeanor changes?


Treat it as a medical problem.

Main thing would be if HRT makes her migraines return. I wouldn’t want her to have hormonal migraines again at any cost including no more PIV but would attempt every medical intervention possible.

My mom told me they just quit and are now companions only because of physical issues they both have and they’re 20 years into retirement and having serious medical issues. She still I think probably wants to screw my dad but they can’t really.

Would like to live long enough to see that happen to us haha.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Treat it as a medical problem.
> 
> Main thing would be if HRT makes her migraines return. I wouldn’t want her to have hormonal migraines again at any cost including no more PIV but would attempt every medical intervention possible.


The thing is, this is something your wife would have to do because SHE wants to fix it. If she doesn’t think about it on her own now except when she ovulates, then when that stops, sex will just be a nuisance.

Not sure why, but that sad time never arrived for my wife. She has always loved intimacy, and will initiate in her shy way if I dont (which id rare).

I thot when she stopped HRT it would be the end. But in fact nothing changed. I am blessed, but fully aware life can change at any time.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Would like to live long enough to see that happen to us haha.


You really don’t. Getting old is no picnic.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> As an example last night around bed she was like “oh I need to do this work thing”. She came to bed anyway and I held her and listened to all her troubles. She is on her period and was like hey I bet you want me to suck you off? Answer: YES!!!
> 
> So she figured it out.


I’ll take things that my wife will never do Alex. 

When we had our argument the other day she flat out said if I want a BJ she would divorce me and I can find someone who would do that. 

Oral is one of my biggest hangups with her.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> The thing is, this is something your wife would have to do because SHE wants to fix it. If she doesn’t think about it on her own now except when she ovulates, then when that stops, sex will just be a nuisance.


Well yeah, but that is the case now. It’s all on her to do something or not.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ll take things that my wife will never do Alex.


Well, often we want what we can’t have. Your wife isn’t going to change. And as time goes on will tighten the screws. Because she can.


GoodDad5 said:


> If I want a BJ she would divorce me


Did she participate at any time in your marriage? I am guessing “yes” early on but familiarity breeds contempt. If she was hot for you she would be doing all sorts of things unasked because SHE wanted to. She isn’t and so she won’t. 

What you want is irrelevant as far as she is concerned, and she is willing to divorce you if you keep pushing.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> Again, much respect....I gotta admit though, I could never put a knee on a woman's neck to have sex with me...regardless of the outcome...it would end long before it got to that ....
> 
> It does bring up a topic, probably for another thread...
> 
> ...


3) Put yourself first.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ll take things that my wife will never do Alex.
> 
> When we had our argument the other day she flat out said if I want a BJ she would divorce me and I can find someone who would do that.
> 
> Oral is one of my biggest hangups with her.


"If it comes to that, I will miss you, and I probably won't find someone else I love as much as you. But I will settle for someone who doesn't shame me for wanting a sexual relationship."

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> "If it comes to that, I will miss you, and I probably won't find someone else I love as much as you. But I will settle for someone who doesn't shame me for wanting a sexual relationship."
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


Just remember that age old saying,
"If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours forever. If it doesn't his new girlfriend probably gives oral"


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ll take things that my wife will never do Alex.
> 
> When we had our argument the other day she flat out said if I want a BJ she would divorce me and I can find someone who would do that.
> 
> Oral is one of my biggest hangups with her.


Dude... 

I know the same things were said to me by a few folks here, but what do you have to lose at this point? I get it. It's scary. I'm pretty sure now that you are in the same situation as I was in - except your wife NEVER wants to have sex, never wants to have good sex, never wants to try anything new, etc. FFS... at least I got all of those things sometimes. 

And what I really mean about being in my situation is this: you know in the back of your head that if you force the issue, if you rock the boat and say that you want a real marriage, not a situation where your wife controls everything, she'll pull the plug. 

I knew it. I didn't want her to divorce me, but I knew it deep down inside. I finally forced the issue. It didn't surprise me when she decided to divorce because she knew I wouldn't put up with her crap ever again. 

I think you know it too. Your wife isnt bluffing. She will divorce if you require her to NOT be a terrible person to you.

So let her. 

What are you losing?

A terrible person in your life. 

So it sounds like you aren't losing anything at all.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Dude...
> 
> I know the same things were said to me by a few folks here, but what do you have to lose at this point? I get it. It's scary. I'm pretty sure now that you are in the same situation as I was in - except your wife NEVER wants to have sex, never wants to have good sex, never wants to try anything new, etc. FFS... at least I got all of those things sometimes.
> 
> ...


I think this is an important point, OP.

It is akin to having kidney cancer, whereby removing the infested organ is the answer. You can survive...even thrive...after it is removed. The alternative is allowing it to remain as it spreads to other areas of the body.

And here you stand, scared to death over the removal of the the kidney, because you aren't prepared to lose the organ. 

Yes, it will hurt...at least, at first.

No you won't be the same.

BUT...you will be better for it in the long run.

Addition by subtraction is real. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## DCW (6 mo ago)

Confusedwife2022 said:


> My husband and I have been together for over 21 years. He works hard, picks up extra shifts.. gives me anything and everything I could ask for.. except when it comes to the bedroom. He’s often too tired.. or comes home, sees us a few hours and then he’s off to bed. If I make comments about us being intimate, he will say he’s tired but is on board. Then the kids go to bed and he’s goes on about how he’s tired or about to go to bed. So then I don’t want to bother him. I’ve said oh I almost woke you up to do something, and he will tell me you should have! Is it because he knows I won’t? Because I won’t disturb his sleep when he gets up at 3:30 for work in the morning? Maybe!! He takes no initiative to do anything when i just mentioned doing something when my kids go to bed. We had this issue about 8-9 years ago.. we eventually separated over this, and soooo much more!!! Everyday we were seperated, he’d beg me to get back together. He’d call, he’d text, he’d show up! He tried to have sex with me everytime he saw me!! After 3 years we worked out our differences and things were great! I got pregnant and then things changed. Now here we are 2 years after my baby and we are still in the same boat! He tells me he’s so tired and I know he is, but like last night he was going to help my family member. Week before he helped my family. I didn’t ask him to do that! Hell he could tell them no! I’d be ok with that. But he will drop everything to help people, which I appreciate.. but what about me? I don’t feel like I’m a top priority any more! I have needs and wants that aren’t material! I’ve tried cute, clingy clothes, I’ve tried simple clothes, sexy.. just waiting for him to make a move and he don’t! I’m so afraid of rejection that I can’t even try to make the first move anymore. I can’t be rejected! I’m so hurt over it. I don’t think he’s cheating because honestly with work, the kids and all he is busy! He leaves his phone for me to use, or will ask me to get something out of it for him, etc. I’ve talked and talked till I just don’t know what to do anymore. I’ve lost weight, I hug him, kiss him, let him know I appreciate him.I’ll randomly text him I love him..every night just about, he gets a neck rub/head rub/back rub, I don’t know what else to do. We have sex once a month maybe, and if I say something maybe twice! It honestly makes me feel like it’s me! Like I’m not good enough. Or he’s not attracted. He gets mad and swears that’s not it.. but I can’t help but feel it’s me. I feel like most men would want a woman who wants it more often. He says he’s just tired, I say we’ll do you tell your nephew your tired when he asked for your help? Because when I text and say tonight? I gets a response of hopefully I don’t fall asleep! Wtf? I was upset! Then he said I didn’t mean it the way you took it.. how was I supposed to take it?? Advice is welcome!!


Sounds very familiar with my situation but reversed (I’m the starved one). I wish I could offer advice but I’m searching for answers just like you. I can relate to all the feelings you have, the questions , the self doubt. It’s hard, it takes a toll and is frustrating. I wish you luck and feel your pain. 
Im trying my best to not score keep. When I lay in bed as she’s fast asleep and I’m asking the same questions, it’s common for me to run through the list of “I did this,I did that, and still nothing “. I find that leads me down a path of resentfulness. I hate that feeling so I’m trying my best not to keep score. Really, all I’ve found is a few tokes on my thc vape before bed helps shut down my brain (Actually works well, sleeping better now). 
🙏 that you find your answers (let me know if you do


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

When you hear these stories it does make you wonder....

If you got a dog, would you expect not to feed it, or would you believe that at some point it won't want to eat?? Now I know that sounds like a crazy notion, but if you are one of those types, then you really need to question what the expectations are going to be...You can't get all the positives from that dog and then deny it a basic need for survival...If there are reasons out of your control, that's a different story, but all these people that just give up and expect the other to just take it and be happy, is just crazy...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> When you hear these stories it does make you wonder....
> 
> If you got a dog, would you expect not to feed it, or would you believe that at some point it won't want to eat?? Now I know that sounds like a crazy notion, but if you are one of those types, then you really need to question what the expectations are going to be...You can't get all the positives from that dog and then deny it a basic need for survival...If there are reasons out of your control, that's a different story, but all these people that just give up and expect the other to just take it and be happy, is just crazy...


If sex is important to you in the marriage and you are not getting it and you are getting depressed about it instead, get out. Yes, it's sad, but you marry a person for the whole package. Without one important brick, the whole building collapses and you'll find yourself under a pile of rubble. Then, it will be too late.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> f sex is important to you in the marriage and you are not getting it and you are getting depressed about it instead, get out.


But am I right that you stayed? S


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> f sex is important to you in the marriage and you are not getting it and you are getting depressed about it instead, get out.


But am I right that you stayed? Some of the people dealing with this are doing a calculation every day about minimizing the pain. Sometimes the minimum pain is tolerating the abuse. Especially if age or health or finance an is issue.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> When you hear these stories it does make you wonder....
> 
> If you got a dog, would you expect not to feed it, or would you believe that at some point it won't want to eat?? Now I know that sounds like a crazy notion, but if you are one of those types, then you really need to question what the expectations are going to be...You can't get all the positives from that dog and then deny it a basic need for survival...If there are reasons out of your control, that's a different story, but all these people that just give up and expect the other to just take it and be happy, is just crazy...


Omg...Lol!!! You must be reading my mind, because I was literally thinking this morning about Ron White's bit about his ex-wife who wouldn't have sex with him...

He said, I'm a pretty good dog, but if you don't pet me once in a while, I'm not going to stay under the porch.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I think these stories have cautionary lesson for anyone who marries. 

IMO, *before proposing*, have a lot of discussion ( at least ) and perhaps "test drives" to confirm compatibility, especially important for a HD person. Lot of discussions about expectations in a marriage and what the hard boundaries are. Discussions about the other person's viewpoint regarding various sexual acts. If they won't even discuss all of these, that is a huge red flag. Of course, people can "play the game" but usually there ought to be some signs of that happening.

After marriage, pay attention every day to what is going on between one another romantically. Stay "engaged" with one another and communicate with one another about "how are we doing?". Changes ought to be addressed as they happen, not ignored or explained away, allowed to build up. 

Finally, if things for whatever reason go off of the rails, don't spend years stewing about it and waiting. For anything. Things like this don't magically improve with age. They only get worse. Early on, spell out the time frame for resolution. And if the issues remain unresolved, end the relationship. It was a mistake, which people make all of the time in many ways.

Speaking for myself, it is only by grace that wife and I have had the great marriage we have had. Because we didn't do much test driving and while we talked about a lot of things, including sex, we were so ignorant about it that we didn't even know the questions to ask. Plain vanilla was all we knew. So we were handicapped, but didn't know it. As it turned out, we were both evenly matched in the desire department, so that never became an issue. 

Our biggest issue had nothing to do with intimacy, but rather financial matters. Once again we were matched. Both being spendthrifts.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> I think these stories have cautionary lesson for anyone who marries.
> 
> IMO, *before proposing*, have a lot of discussion ( at least ) and perhaps "test drives" to confirm compatibility, especially important for a HD person. Lot of discussions about expectations in a marriage and what the hard boundaries are. Discussions about the other person's viewpoint regarding various sexual acts. If they won't even discuss all of these, that is a huge red flag. Of course, people can "play the game" but usually there ought to be some signs of that happening.
> 
> ...


You lost me at pay attention. 

Just kidding. Good list. We didn't do it that way but it wouldn't have hurt. I was lucky on a bunch of ways.
W too. Kind of just worked out.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> But am I right that you stayed? Some of the people dealing with this are doing a calculation every day about minimizing the pain. Sometimes the minimum pain is tolerating the abuse. Especially if age or health or finance an is issue.


I stayed as in I haven’t moved out yet, but we are not together anymore because I’m not having a companionship marriage. We will sell the properties and go separate ways, probably the end of next year.


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