# A little confused and lost



## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Hi everyone,
I have trolled this site in the past to see if I can find some answers myself. 
I feel as though I am in a difficult spot.
I love my wife dearly but we are not having sex. We will go months without sex. This has been going on for years. Fights have occcured because of it when I try and talk about it. She says all I want is sex. Honestly if all I wanted was sex I would not be with her. I feel terrible after as I feel humiliated and feel as I am begging. Then we have sex and I feel as though we are having it because she feels she has to. It is messed up

My wife has some health issues (recently) and I understand they limit us. However this has been going on prior to the health issues. To me it seems there is always an excuse. 

I feel terrible for her and her health conditions. I feel selfish about it. I try and talk to her about her conditions and she gets mad. 

So where I am....
I am frustrated/ humiliated/ embarassed/I dont feel confident about myself. I dont feel I can bring anything up. I feel as though she is not interested in me. There is no affection (She says she is stressed around me when I kiss her or hug her). I don't think she is having an affair (I could be wrong but I dont think she is)
Sex is important to me. I think it is important in a relationship. I dont want to sound insensitive about it but I feel as though if there is no sex then you are simply roomates that care about each other.
Recently I have been thinking about divorce. I feel as though life is short and maybe I would be happier and maybe she would be happier. Me being with someone that may want to enjoy sex and her being with someone that may not ( I totally understand that she may just not want to have sex with me
Any insights/ feedbacks/ experiences.
I dont want a divorce...I would rather fix this if it can be fixed or explained


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

What are her health problems?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

How old are you two?

It is not unreasonable to want a sex life and currently you have none.

She has decided that your marriage be a sexless one without your input or approval.

You likely will have to threaten to end the marriage before she wakes up and she may not.

Alternatively, if she's not having sex with you, I'd strongly wonder who she is having sex with. Does she work? Does she guard her phone?


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What are her health problems?


She has a hernia mesh that she wants removed. She has pain from it sometimes. She has gone to have it removed and they removed some sutures but could not find the mesh. She feels as though the mesh is tiring her out. 
She feels tired a lot. But her vitals are good and her blood work is good. 
She tells me she has some health issues but specifically other than the mesh I am not sure


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

re16 said:


> How old are you two?
> 
> It is not unreasonable to want a sex life and currently you have none.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. I dont think there is another person involved. I do trust her. I dont think she is cheating. We do try and talk about it. I try but it ends up being a huge fight with a lot of "Im sorries" I also would hate to threaten the end of marriage as I would like this kind of resolved even if that means divorce. I think if I threaten it I would not like the outcome either way. 
I have read about people just leaving and I feel as though that may be the answer


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

re16 said:


> How old are you two?
> 
> It is not unreasonable to want a sex life and currently you have none.
> 
> ...


we are in our late 40's sorry I left his out


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Daniel Felipe said:


> we are in our late 40's sorry I left his out


Has she always been this way? Is she going through the menopause?


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Has she always been this way? Is she going through the menopause?


Thank you for responding
I know its been like this for about 8 years at least. My concern I guess was that when we first started having discussions about lack of sex it was all related to me. What I was not doing etc; then it became it was to late at night; then her being exhausted; etc. I felt like it was all excuses.
Now I have brought up as you mention menopause but she says no.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> She has a hernia mesh that she wants removed. She has pain from it sometimes. She has gone to have it removed and they removed some sutures but could not find the mesh. She feels as though the mesh is tiring her out.
> She feels tired a lot. But her vitals are good and her blood work is good.
> She tells me she has some health issues but specifically other than the mesh I am not sure


There are lawsuits about certain kinds of meshes. If the sex problem preceded that it may have nothing to do with it but it could be a serious problem with that mesh. And if her hernia had anything to do with cervical or bladder or rectocele prolapses, all that directly affects sexual function. Even prior to the mesh being installed because if it's to do with prolapses that means the prolapses are trying to be corrected by the mesh.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you for responding
> I know its been like this for about 8 years at least. My concern I guess was that when we first started having discussions about lack of sex it was all related to me. What I was not doing etc; then it became it was to late at night; then her being exhausted; etc. I felt like it was all excuses.
> Now I have brought up as you mention menopause but she says no.


I do think that rather than just end the marriage, you need to have a serious talk. You need to tell her how very unhappy you are and that you can't go on this way. Also that you are even thinking of ending the marriage. She needs to know this rather than you just springing divorce on her. 

Suggest some good MC.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There are lawsuits about certain kinds of meshes. If the sex problem preceded that it may have nothing to do with it but it could be a serious problem with that mesh. And if her hernia had anything to do with cervical or bladder or rectocele prolapses, all that directly affects sexual function. Even prior to the mesh being installed because if it's to do with prolapses that means the prolapses are trying to be corrected by the mesh.


Thank you. Yes the sex problem preceded that. She is worried the mesh (that is for sure)


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I do think that rather than just end the marriage, you need to have a serious talk. You need to tell her how very unhappy you are and that you can't go on this way. Also that you are even thinking of ending the marriage. She needs to know this rather than you just springing divorce on her.
> 
> Suggest some good MC.


I agree. It is understandable that you don't want to argue anymore, but she needs to understand the seriousness of this issue. Do not threaten her, but be clear that you are not going to continue living like this.

The issue is not only about sex. There is a reason why your wife is not being affectionate with you. Without her input, it is difficult to ascertain what the underlying issue is. Perhaps the problems that led to her having a mesh made it difficult for her to engage with you sexually and she stopped being affectionate, because she was afraid it would lead to sex and pain. It could have nothing to do with medical/physical issues and be emotionally and relationally based. This cannot be resolved if you don't get to the bottom of it and you cannot get to the bottom of it if she gets angry and won't talk about it. Therefore, I recommend you seek marriage counseling in order to be able to talk about it in a manner that she can handle. Having a counselor mediate the discussion can help to make her more comfortable and able to talk without being defensive.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I do think that rather than just end the marriage, you need to have a serious talk. You need to tell her how very unhappy you are and that you can't go on this way. Also that you are even thinking of ending the marriage. She needs to know this rather than you just springing divorce on her.
> 
> Suggest some good MC.


Hi,,,I have tried that and it ends up with both of us feeling bad. It really does not go anywhere.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I think that in all fairness to your wife, she needs to get her medical issues squared away.
You need to be supportive, but hold her accountable for doing so.
However, you also need to stand up for yourself and make sure that your needs are met.
There are some similarities between your situation and what I faced a couple of years ago. Here is what I did:









Why so many sexless marriages?


I admit to being single, but I don’t understand why so many people are in sexless marriages. I was married for 15 years. Lack of sex was never our problem because it was never used as a weapon. It sure seems that many of you have a significant other using it as control by not fulfilling the...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Sometimes you have to break something to fix it.
Become the leader of your destiny. Either she comes with you or she doesn't.
However, you will quickly know what you have.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you. Yes the sex problem preceded that. She is worried the mesh (that is for sure)


Is the mesh connected with prolapses though? Because that is often what mesh is used for and that would mean that her prolapses preceded the mesh and probably by quite a while. Prolapses definitely affect having sex. So I'm just saying be sure you understand her physical problem.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I agree with @Cynthia that it’s not just the no sex that an issue here. When a spouse withholds even hugs and kissing, then it can’t be lumped in with her pain.

How’s your marriage other wise? Are you going on dates? Do you say I love you to one another? Are you both working full time? Are there kids in the house? Is this your first marriage? How long have you been together? The more you give, the better the advise you’ll receive.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I felt like it was all excuses.


It was....


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Tell her what you just wrote here. You’re going to leave if it doesn’t improve, it’s ok if it doesn’t but that will be the result. Then, if it doesn’t improve, leave.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Hi,,,I have tried that and it ends up with both of us feeling bad. It really does not go anywhere.


No!!!

It is because you are not going anywhere and she knows it.

Move out and separate for a month. Tell her, if and when, she looks at intimacy different, you MAY return.

Keep in mind, (if yes) then she will comply because your forced her, not because she wants to be intimate with you.

What would you gain if she complies?
Starfish sex?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jsmart said:


> I agree with @Cynthia that it’s not just the no sex that an issue here. When a spouse withholds even hugs and kissing, then it can’t be lumped in with her pain.
> 
> How’s your marriage other wise? Are you going on dates? Do you say I love you to one another? Are you both working full time? Are there kids in the house? Is this your first marriage? How long have you been together? The more you give, the better the advise you’ll receive.


They can get into a cycle of withholding hugs and kisses because every time they do, then there's a request for sex, which they're trying to avoid for whatever the multiple reasons may be. I was thinking back to all the many posts with these type problems not just on this board but others as well and I only remember one said his wife was still really affectionate with hugs and kisses, but there was just no sex. I mean I'm sure there's more but that was the one that came to mind and he just had a hopeless situation because she had made clear it just wasn't going to happen.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> I agree. It is understandable that you don't want to argue anymore, but she needs to understand the seriousness of this issue. Do not threaten her, but be clear that you are not going to continue living like this.
> 
> The issue is not only about sex. There is a reason why your wife is not being affectionate with you. Without her input, it is difficult to ascertain what the underlying issue is. Perhaps the problems that led to her having a mesh made it difficult for her to engage with you sexually and she stopped being affectionate, because she was afraid it would lead to sex and pain. It could have nothing to do with medical/physical issues and be emotionally and relationally based. This cannot be resolved if you don't get to the bottom of it and you cannot get to the bottom of it if she gets angry and won't talk about it. Therefore, I recommend you seek marriage counseling in order to be able to talk about it in a manner that she can handle. Having a counselor mediate the discussion can help to make her more comfortable and able to talk without being defensive.





DownByTheRiver said:


> There are lawsuits about certain kinds of meshes. If the sex problem preceded that it may have nothing to do with it but it could be a serious problem with that mesh. And if her hernia had anything to do with cervical or bladder or rectocele prolapses, all that directly affects sexual function. Even prior to the mesh being installed because if it's to do with prolapses that means the prolapses are trying to be corrected by the mesh.


Thank you...the mesh is not related to bladder or cervical. But it does cause her discomfort. Its Inguinal hernia mesh. I know it bothers her and she is trying to have it removed. I am certain this is part of it but I think there is more beneath


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Until you are ready to actually divorce then nothing will change. You stated that you think about it but want to stay together. At this point you will hold tightly to any and every excuse she throws out as something you can fix and the sex will return. This will absolutely never happen because she will just keep changing the rules. Until you let go of that and are actually ready AND WILLING to divorce you will only exist in sexless limbo. She knows you aren’t going anywhere..... until you prove her wrong you get nothing.... except resentment.

You are just not ready yet .... you aren’t getting any younger


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> No!!!
> 
> It is because you are not going anywhere and she knows it.
> 
> ...


Thank you I appreciate that. We have 2 kiddos which I feel as though I would be abandoning. I think also dont want to be the one moving out. If we go down this route...I am hesitant. I would rather her move out and leave me at our house. 
Now I do think this would temporarily fix things but I also think it will cause resentment and in the end it would cause more problems. I am trying to avoid any moving out stuff or threats etc. 

I do appreciate all the feedback on here.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I take it that mesh isn’t covering her mouth or hands .... did I miss something?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I am trying to avoid any moving out stuff or threats etc.


I don’t know how you fix it without someone leaving or an ultimatum. If simply talking about it was enough you’d already be having sex.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> Until you are ready to actually divorce then nothing will change. You stated that you think about it but want to stay together. At this point you will hold tightly to any and every excuse she throws out as something you can fix and the sex will return. This will absolutely never happen because she will just keep changing the rules. Until you let go of that and are actually ready AND WILLING to divorce you will only exist in sexless limbo. She knows you aren’t going anywhere..... until you prove her wrong you get nothing.... except resentment.
> 
> Your just not ready yet .... you aren’t getting any younger


Thank you. I was thinking of this as well. I think divorce is a process. meaning that you start at A and you end up at D (divorce). It may take a while but that is where it may end up. I hope not but I am worried about what you say that nothing will change and that the rules will just keep changing.
I do love her. I would love to see this workout. I am still hopeful but I do know that divorce may be the only option for me if this continues. 
I am at a loss


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t know how you fix it without someone leaving or an ultimatum. If simply talking about it was enough you’d already be having sex.


I dont know anymore. That is why I have posted my struggle on here.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I take it that mesh isn’t covering her mouth or hands .... did I miss something?


Talking about sex or other options becomes a big fight.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Tdbo said:


> I think that in all fairness to your wife, she needs to get her medical issues squared away.
> You need to be supportive, but hold her accountable for doing so.
> However, you also need to stand up for yourself and make sure that your needs are met.
> There are some similarities between your situation and what I faced a couple of years ago. Here is what I did:
> ...


Thank you for your response. I understand what you are saying I just may not be there yet. My worry is that I will get there and that bothers me. (leaving). I just dont know how long I stay (we have kids little ones)


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I doubt talk will get you a thing. These issues come up often. Stay and you’ll get more of the same.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Hi everyone,,,,my apologies if I dont respond back to everyone. I am reading all of them. They do help me understand stuff. Questions for all of you or any friends that you know....Has this sort of thing fixed itself for anyone that you know of?
Meaning can you go from a sexless marriage to an active one? Please any feedback would help me. Thanks


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you. I was thinking of this as well. I think divorce is a process. meaning that you start at A and you end up at D (divorce). It may take a while but that is where it may end up. I hope not but I am worried about what you say that nothing will change and that the rules will just keep changing.
> I do love her. I would love to see this workout. I am still hopeful but I do know that divorce may be the only option for me if this continues.
> I am at a loss


I wish you knew the amount of people that come through this place in your position only to remain there for countless years. I promise you that until you are ready for divorce and she knows it ... nothing will change. The success stories for men in your position are VERY VERY few. The absolute distinguished difference between the winners and losers was that the winners had no issue telling their spouse they were finished with marriage.

Get to that point quickly


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Hi everyone,,,,my apologies if I dont respond back to everyone. I am reading all of them. They do help me understand stuff. Questions for all of you or any friends that you know....Has this sort of thing fixed itself for anyone that you know of?
> Meaning can you go from a sexless marriage to an active one? Please any feedback would help me. Thanks


It’s ok you don’t have to answer everyone... nobody is going to think it’s rude. You can take what you see and pick and choose how to apply to your own situation.

Dudes (and gals) in sexless relationships show up here every day


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Meaning can you go from a sexless marriage to an active one?


Yes.

You need to:

1. Make sure you are not exhibiting unattractive behaviors and are not unattractive.

2. Once you’re at the stage where you’re prepared to leave, if you don’t want to leave, tell her that either she works to repair the sexual relationship or that’s it. Have a timeline in mind and stick to it.

3. It likely won’t work, but sometimes it does. If it doesn’t, don’t be one of the guys who stays anyway. If you know you’re going to do that don’t bother.

If you want to read more about this check out “The Married Man’s Sex Life Primer” by Athol Kay and “The Dead Bedroom Fix” by @dadstartingover they will let you know if you’re screwing up by being unattractive


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

There are a few books that always get mentioned for men to read

Married Man Sex Life Primer
No More Mr. Nice Guy
Mating in Captivity


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Keep in mind that unless you grow some big balls and totally take control of this situation without reservation then your chances are slim.

Now think about the following: After this is all said and done do you want a woman that she wanted sex because she knew divorce was the other option???? That is for you to figure out in your own mind.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I wish you knew the amount of people that come through this place in your position only to remain there for countless years. I promise you that until you are ready for divorce and she knows it ... nothing will change. The success stories for men in your position are VERY VERY few. The absolute distinguished difference between the winners and losers was that the winners had no issue telling their spouse they were finished with marriage.
> 
> Get to that point quickly


Did that fix the situation or did divorce prevail?


ccpowerslave said:


> Yes.
> 
> You need to:
> 
> ...


Thank you
I an active person and do take care of myself. I am well groomed. Lately I am not feeling very good about myself so I have been putting more effort into "trying to look good" My confidence is shattered
thank you


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> There are a few books that always get mentioned for men to read
> 
> Married Man Sex Life Primer
> No More Mr. Nice Guy
> Mating in Captivity


thank you


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> Keep in mind that unless you grow some big balls and totally take control of this situation without reservation then your chances are slim.
> 
> Now think about the following: After this is all said and done do you want a woman that she wanted sex because she knew divorce was the other option???? That is for you to figure out in your own mind.


Well that is exactly what I am worried about. If you "grow some big balls" and set an ultimatum....say she is willing to have sex....does it feel right; does she really love me...i dont know. 
This is one of the things I stuggle with
I think I have to either decide on a divorce because if she comes back and says "lets have sex and fix this" I dont think either one of us will feel any better
Also I am worried that a big part may be her health,,,If health gets addressed and things stay the same I may have to follow through.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Hi,,,I have tried that and it ends up with both of us feeling bad. It really does not go anywhere.


Have you actually told her the seriousness and that you are even thinking of leaving? Have you suggested marriage counselling as a last resort?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you...the mesh is not related to bladder or cervical. But it does cause her discomfort. Its Inguinal hernia mesh. I know it bothers her and she is trying to have it removed. I am certain this is part of it but I think there is more beneath


Thank you for answering the questions. I hope you sort something out and I agree with you that it is like me more than just the mesh located but if it's causing her discomfort, I sure hope she gets that cleared up and then it will be easier to sort this out.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you for your response. I understand what you are saying I just may not be there yet. My worry is that I will get there and that bothers me. (leaving). I just dont know how long I stay (we have kids little ones)


I get you. I could never have left my children and moved out.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

jsmart said:


> I agree with @Cynthia that it’s not just the no sex that an issue here. When a spouse withholds even hugs and kissing, then it can’t be lumped in with her pain.
> 
> How’s your marriage other wise? Are you going on dates? Do you say I love you to one another? Are you both working full time? Are there kids in the house? Is this your first marriage? How long have you been together? The more you give, the better the advise you’ll receive.


The hugs and kissing can be withheld because the partner in control of sex sees it as something that could lead to sex.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> They can get into a cycle of withholding hugs and kisses because every time they do, then there's a request for sex, which they're trying to avoid for whatever the multiple reasons may be. I was thinking back to all the many posts with these type problems not just on this board but others as well and I only remember one said his wife was still really affectionate with hugs and kisses, but there was just no sex. I mean I'm sure there's more but that was the one that came to mind and he just had a hopeless situation because she had made clear it just wasn't going to happen.


Marriage is ok. But sex and affection are part of a marriage and it’s very important to me. (I know it sounds selfish)


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I figured that. It just so cold hearted. the warmth from a woman is very powerful thing. Men will do anything for it. 

OP needs to stop with the begging and whining. It never works. He just needs to work on being the best version of himself. Eventually the instability of a guy upping himself will lead to an imbalance in the relationship. She will up her game or he will bounce.

Right now he’s down and fears going back out there but spend the next 6 months on improving yourself and you will reach a point that you won’t care. I hate to advocate divorce but what is he left to work with. If she were sweet to him and gave BJs and HJs at least once a week this guy would be happy but instead she’s a complete beotch.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Marriage is ok. But sex and affection are part of a marriage and it’s very important to me. (I know it sounds selfish)


When I say ok I mean if there is no sex or affection everything is smooth. When we discuss issues of affection and the lack of sex fights happen and they are bad. I try and keep my cool but I cannot. This last fight has made me reach out on this platform and see what others have experienced and insight etc. 
I do think she loves me; I don’t think she is cheating. I do think that she can go on with no sex indefinitely. I just don’t think I can


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Did that fix the situation or did divorce prevail?
> 
> Thank you
> I an active person and do take care of myself. I am well groomed. Lately I am not feeling very good about myself so I have been putting more effort into "trying to look good" My confidence is shattered
> thank you


That's not enough, you need to hit the gym and try to get to the V shape (google: V shape body), and no you don't need to be fully ripped, but I have seen many people in their late 50s who are!
Get Married Man Sex Life Primer - Athol Kay book ASAP, it should take you two days to finish!


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

My Book: *The Dead Bedroom Fix*


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@Daniel Felipe - How did you meet? How old were each of you? How was sexuality then? What do you know of her past? Is there a feeling you get that you might have been more open and honest while dating than she was?

That last sentence. Think about it. Is there a possibility she got trapped in a lie or two or three and to cover her tracks, has never really felt honesty works in her favor? If that’s the case, you may have a really tough road ahead of you.

Or. It could be you with the secrets?

Whatever the case, at this point your marriage can’t be hurt much more than it already is, by having THE conversation. What isn’t she telling you, because if you knew, she’d fear the consequences?

You’ve got nothing to lose. But maybe it’s nothing like that. Maybe all she needs to do is watch “The sex starved marriage” Ted Talk. Watch it yourself first, then have her watch it. It could be a real wake-up call for her.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Marriage is ok. But sex and affection are part of a marriage and it’s very important to me. (I know it sounds selfish)


Its not selfish if it’s consistent since the beginning. You appear to have been very accommodating of her physical issues.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Marriage is ok. But sex and affection are part of a marriage and it’s very important to me. (I know it sounds selfish)


If there's some reason she has just lost interest in sex with you, it's kind of selfish both ways because you can't expect someone to do it if they're miserable doing it. It sounds like she does have that physical problem that needs to be cleared up . I looked it up and it seems to be an abdominal hernia. Of course those are very painful. Anything that jiggles them around is probably painful. 

But until then unless she gets that dealt with and probably has surgery again to fix it again, you're not going to know where you stand or what to do. 

Women have a very difficult time understanding why sex is the number one priority for so many men in marriage and most of them don't realize that it is. Because it isn't for them in most cases. 

So it just comes down to seeing if she can get fixed and then seeing if that changes anything and then it doesn't sound like you can live with it if it doesn't at which point you just have to decide to divorce. She's not going to understand that at all. I'm a woman so I don't believe women should have to do anything they don't want to, but if I was having to go round and round with any man who wanted to have sex and I didn't, I would be inclined to just leave and stop having to deal with it. She probably literally can't believe that that is your deal breaker because they're just aren't too many women who are like that or understand that. 

A lot of couples lose interest in sex as they age but certainly not always at the same pace. If she's had abdominal pain for a long time, and if that's the reason, she needs to be crystal clear with you about that and otherwise reassure you that she loves you and would love to be able to have sex like you used to. Likewise if she's just lost interest in sex in general or has lost that feeling with you, which happens very commonly I think because of overfamiliarity or sexual incompatibility, she needs to be honest about it so you can both just make your decision.

I don't have much respect for people who aren't clear about things and just want to let them ride and hope nobody rocks the boat.


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> *I do think she loves me; I don’t think she is cheating. I do think that she can go on with no sex indefinitely. I just don’t think I can*


You need tell her just this without getting upset, tell her that you understand that she hurts from her mesh, but that she was not being affectinate and into lovemaking even before the mesh. Be calm and tell her that they way you marriage and love making cannot go on the way that it is and you will not continue to live that way. Best of luck!


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I get you. I could never have left my children and moved out.


Thank you for that


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If there's some reason she has just lost interest in sex with you, it's kind of selfish both ways because you can't expect someone to do it if they're miserable doing it. It sounds like she does have that physical problem that needs to be cleared up . I looked it up and it seems to be an abdominal hernia. Of course those are very painful. Anything that jiggles them around is probably painful.
> 
> But until then unless she gets that dealt with and probably has surgery again to fix it again, you're not going to know where you stand or what to do.
> 
> ...


I hear what you are saying and I understand it. My biggest concern is I don’t want her to do anything she does not want to but I do want her to be clear with me. I would like to be intimate with her because I love her. However a lot of the suggestions seem to be an ultimatum. This is where I am stuck. Why an ultimatum of a person is not interested in you or has lost a sex drive? I would not want to be in that situation if roles were reversed. That would be awful. I certainly don’t want my wife to have sex with me if she does not want to
This mesh in her…we are trying to get it out. Sex is not the reason why but she thinks it will help. 
I just see other behaviors that make me really wonder if she still loves me. I don’t think she is having an affair. I just think she has lost the love for me and is very comfortable in our friendship. Why I say that is that we really don’t do anything together. I suggest things but she really does not want to (with me). If others ask she does want to do things (rarely) and it’s ok if I got. But her and I does not seem that appealing to her (I think). When I do ask her about it I feel like a whiner and she says it’s not the case. However it happens frequently enough that yes it is an issue

I do think she loves me and cares for me but I don’t she she desires or is in love with me if that makes sense


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> You need tell her just this without getting upset, tell her that you understand that she hurts from her mesh, but that she was not being affectinate and into lovemaking even before the mesh. Be calm and tell her that they way you marriage and love making cannot go on the way that it is and you will not continue to live that way. Best of luck!


Thank you. I have tried that. I did maintain my cool and was calm for awhile but the reasons kept changing. Maybe they are valid. Before she said we did not get a long. It’s true we were not but sex was the issue. Intimacy for me is something that is just awesome. It makes me feel great especially with her. So discussing our lack of sex led to us (more her) not comfortable about it which is hold mean no sex; which then caused more of a conversation and this conversation led to less sex ….around and around we go
I am looking at anything and everything to see if there is a possibility of making this work
I am also cognizant that she may have just lost interest. I am assuming she has not and trying to figure it out with that base


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Kaliber said:


> That's not enough, you need to hit the gym and try to get to the V shape (google: V shape body), and no you don't need to be fully ripped, but I have seen many people in their late 50s who are!
> Get Married Man Sex Life Primer - Athol Kay book ASAP, it should take you two days to finish!


Thank you. I am mountain biking in the am once I get the kids off. I walk the dog; try and run a few times per week. I try and do some weights. I have many reasons why 
1) it makes me feel good
2) it helps me stay in shape
3) takes my mind off things
4) hopefully I meet others with similar interest
5) possibly my wife notices (but I don’t think so)


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I hear what you are saying and I understand it. My biggest concern is I don’t want her to do anything she does not want to but I do want her to be clear with me. I would like to be intimate with her because I love her. However a lot of the suggestions seem to be an ultimatum. This is where I am stuck. Why an ultimatum of a person is not interested in you or has lost a sex drive? I would not want to be in that situation if roles were reversed. That would be awful. I certainly don’t want my wife to have sex with me if she does not want to
> This mesh in her…we are trying to get it out. Sex is not the reason why but she thinks it will help.
> I just see other behaviors that make me really wonder if she still loves me. I don’t think she is having an affair. I just think she has lost the love for me and is very comfortable in our friendship. Why I say that is that we really don’t do anything together. I suggest things but she really does not want to (with me). If others ask she does want to do things (rarely) and it’s ok if I got. But her and I does not seem that appealing to her (I think). When I do ask her about it I feel like a whiner and she says it’s not the case. However it happens frequently enough that yes it is an issue
> 
> I do think she loves me and cares for me but I don’t she she desires or is in love with me if that makes sense


I really believe that sometimes lust goes away especially for women when they start feeling too familial with their spouse. When you're with someone for some amount of time, sometimes the role changes from a simple male female dynamic two elements of parenting or being parented or becoming more sibling like, and those are not conducive to sex especially for women although men seem to be able to glide right through it. 

To me it sounds like you both love each other. Her not wanting to do things, I wonder how much of that is due to her physical problem wearing her down and making her tired. Does she hold down a job? Of course another thing that can make you not want to do things is depression and of course having a physical problem that is really wearing on you can lead to depression but so can a host of other things. 

Y'all need to deal with that physical problem first and give that a chance to settle. And then it may take marital counseling to get communication going and her to open up. It may be a longer path than you're able to tolerate.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> @Daniel Felipe - How did you meet? How old were each of you? How was sexuality then? What do you know of her past? Is there a feeling you get that you might have been more open and honest while dating than she was?
> 
> That last sentence. Think about it. Is there a possibility she got trapped in a lie or two or three and to cover her tracks, has never really felt honesty works in her favor? If that’s the case, you may have a really tough road ahead of you.
> 
> ...


We met in our early to mid thirties. She was previously married. I was not. I had some relationships but nothing serious. When I met her I liked her and asked her to marry me. 
I don’t have any secrets nor do I think she has. I think she has been open with me from the beginning But I really don’t know but I do t think so

we were intimate and had sex regularly. It wa a great. (Probably like most people). For a period of 1 1/2 I was working like crazy and doing my mba and we had our first child. Sex during this period was also non existent but we were a little active (exhausted but active)
When the kids were small like all families we struggled with time to ourselves. But I think we both understood that
Now that the kids are a little older and more I dependent we are doing less which makes me wonder
We both have our own businesses, mine being more established and therefore I have more flexibility. I get up with the kids and send them off. I make the meals etc (I don’t mind it because I love cooking and enjoy being with the kids). 
Life is really good for me other than the intimacy. I really have no complaints. Friends look at me and always say you must be happy. The intimacy part is my struggle


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I really believe that sometimes lust goes away especially for women when they start feeling too familial with their spouse. When you're with someone for some amount of time, sometimes the role changes from a simple male female dynamic two elements of parenting or being parented or becoming more sibling like, and those are not conducive to sex especially for women although men seem to be able to glide right through it.
> 
> To me it sounds like you both love each other. Her not wanting to do things, I wonder how much of that is due to her physical problem wearing her down and making her tired. Does she hold down a job? Of course another thing that can make you not want to do things is depression and of course having a physical problem that is really wearing on you can lead to depression but so can a host of other things.
> 
> Y'all need to deal with that physical problem first and give that a chance to settle. And then it may take marital counseling to get communication going and her to open up. It may be a longer path than you're able to tolerate.


Thank you. I like your response.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> This is where I am stuck. Why an ultimatum of a person is not interested in you or has lost a sex drive? I would not want to be in that situation if roles were reversed.


The point of it is to make them realize how serious the situation is and then if they have anything going on downstairs for you at all, correct themselves before you leave.

So if they’re giving you lousy uninspired sex for some reason (financial, whatever) then they’re not living up to what is being asked and you leave anyway.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you for your response. I understand what you are saying I just may not be there yet. My worry is that I will get there and that bothers me. (leaving). I just dont know how long I stay (we have kids little ones)


There is only one way that you will change the dynamic, and that is by taking charge of it.
She truly needs to feel that the marriage is in danger.
If she values it, she will step up.
If she doesn't, you will find out where you stand real quick.
You do this only after she has adequate time and resources to get her health sorted.
You need to read this:

No More Mr Nice Guy by Glover. Check out Amazon or your local bookstore.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> There is no affection (She says she is stressed around me when I kiss her or hug her).


If you still care for her in any way, you ought to stop creating that kind of stress by divorcing her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you. I have tried that. I did maintain my cool and was calm for awhile but the reasons kept changing. Maybe they are valid. *Before she said we did not get a long. It’s true we were not but sex was the issue. * Intimacy for me is something that is just awesome. It makes me feel great especially with her. So discussing our lack of sex led to us (more her) not comfortable about it which is hold mean no sex; which then caused more of a conversation and this conversation led to less sex ….around and around we go
> I am looking at anything and everything to see if there is a possibility of making this work
> I am also cognizant that she may have just lost interest. I am assuming she has not and trying to figure it out with that base


That becomes a catch-22 because women need conditions and sentiment right to want sex, so if men withdraw that when they don't get sex, that does just create a stalemate and nobody wins. Because men just go on wanting it even with discord, and discord turns many women completely off. It's just another one of those differences in men and women.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Marriage is ok. But sex and affection are part of a marriage and it’s very important to me. (I know it sounds selfish)


It’s not selfish at all. That exact misconception is the seed of disparity the withholding spouse is planting.

How can wanting sex and affection be selfish?

Those two items are foundations of marriage.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Sex is part of the agreement when people get married. She doesn’t intend to participate in the marriage to be sure of your happiness.
So you are married to someone who doesn’t care about you being happy abd your needs.
So divorce her. You can find a woman that cares deeply about you being happy, she’s not your gal. No bargaining - she’s been consistent in not caring about your needs.
Just divorce her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Daniel Felipe said:


> My concern I guess was that when we first started having discussions about lack of sex* it was all related to me*. *What I was not doing* etc; then it became it was to late at night; then her being exhausted; etc. I felt like it was all excuses.


I think you have your answer there. She is resenting you for some reason ans she's lost her attraction to you. After 8 years, it's too late. You push for sex, but she can't have sex with a person she doesn't respect. Can she fall in love with you again? Who knows. Just sit her down and ask her the _*real*_ reasons. Good luck! I have been there and it's not easy.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Do you both work from home? If you do, some find that familiarity breeds contempt.

At the present, you may conclude that your wife really does not want to have sex with you. You can't talk her into desire, demand desire or threaten her into desire. For whatever reason, it isn't there. If this is a deal breaker for you, tell her that you have concluded that you two are simply incompatible and it is time to restructure your lives so that your wants can be accommodated.

Do you know why her first marriage failed?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Talking about sex or other options becomes a big fight.


Because she is stonewalling and gaslighting you. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

OP, your wife sounds like mine. She always has an excuse as to why she isn't interested. Just last evening we got into another argument about sex. No matter what I say, its my fault as I "don't know how she feels", "women are different and they don't just want sex for sex like men do", "she is stressed about the house not being clean so is not in the mood", etc. I have heard them all. 

And then when I remind her its been two weeks since we had sex, I get laid into for keeping track of it. And then I get blamed for a host of reasons why she doesn't want sex with me. It is of course all my fault.

Sadly, I think the best advice you have received here is to move on. I think I saw where you may be late 40s? Either way, it looks like it may be time for you to call it quits. You can try the 180 folks have mentioned but that doesn't always seem to work...at least it didn't for me. The other person has to have at least some interest in you for the 180 to work.

Don't wait and become miserable like I have become. I need to take my own advice and do the same thing just need to figure out the financal aspects of doing so as I am already sexually frustrated but hate the idea of giving up half my money as well. Feels like I would be paying her off for not having sex with me. 

But thats a whole different story and my intent is not to hijack your thread.

Good luck to you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Feels like I would be paying her off for not having sex with me.


I only thought about the logistics and having to pay out for about and hour and decided I didn’t care.

Once the failure of the situation fully hit, my mind wasn’t right for a couple months. That was hard, the emotional part. The legal/transactional part was easy for me to rationalize.

The other part of it that helps in that way is that I generally always do what I say. So when I came to her and I say we need to fix this, or there is no we. She knew if I told her that my finger was on the trigger already.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> I only thought about the logistics and having to pay out for about and hour and decided I didn’t care.
> 
> Once the failure of the situation fully hit, my mind wasn’t right for a couple months. That was hard, the emotional part. The legal/transactional part was easy for me to rationalize.
> 
> The other part of it that helps in that way is that I generally always do what I say. So when I came to her and I say we need to fix this, or there is no we. She knew if I told her that my finger was on the trigger already.


Yeah makes sense. I could leave the emotional situation easier than I could the financial as I feel I would give away half of all the hard work I have done to accrue it. And then have to work about 10-12 more years to get it back.

My wife would be happy to divorce as she has nothing so she would essentially win the "No sex lottery". Yours CC appaently had some fear of you leaving. Thats the bad part about being on a second marriage in my opinion. People do not fear divorce any more.

But this is the same dead horse I have beat here before so don't want to thread jack rehashing my same BS.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Thats the bad part about being on a second marriage in my opinion. People do not fear divorce any more.


I can see that.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But this is the same dead horse I have beat here before so don't want to thread jack rehashing my same BS.


Man I feel you!
Plan your bail out quick!



Tdbo said:


> No More Mr Nice Guy by Glover. Check out Amazon or your local bookstore.


Or you can download it free as a PDF but it's cheep (I would buy it because Dr. Glover deserves it, he saved millions of men!)


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> She knew if I told her that my finger was on the trigger already.


I did that and it worked. I got duty sex twice a month, but the sex was good....  Then, empty-nested, I wasn't needed anymore, so she dumped me. We haven't officially divorced yet because it's too expensive for me. She will inherit quite a lot of money soon, so maybe then she won't take half of my money and pension. But I don't know that. In the meantime, we do our own thing. It just makes sense.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Women have a very difficult time understanding why sex is the number one priority for so many men in marriage and most of them don't realize that it is. Because it isn't for them in most cases.


Sorry but I disagree. Most women in this situation do know how important sex is for men in marriage but they’re selfish and don’t care about their husbands feelings.

It’s as simple as that really.

The answer is instead of moaning to her about it, tell her if she continues to ignore your needs as a married couple then you’ll find someone who does.

Then if nothing changes find someone and bang the living snot out of her.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Since so many of you don’t want to divorce to forfeit half of your money/assets - tell your spouse that you will be finding the sex outside the marriage.
If they aren’t willing to meet your needs they should know you’ll get that elsewhere.
But honestly I don’t know why staying married to someone so self centered is a good plan.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BIL310 said:


> Sorry but I disagree. Most women in this situation do know how important sex is for men in marriage but they’re selfish and don’t care about their husbands feelings.
> 
> It’s as simple as that really.
> 
> ...


No, it's a two-way street. They both have feelings and needs, and they simply don't match up anymore, and they're both prioritizing what they want over what the other wants, but neither has the trump card. Neither should expect the other to sacrifice themselves for them beyond what they are comfortable with. No one should expect they have a right to be "serviced." If the other wants to, fine, and I think a lot of the time, most do as much as they're willing. But it's not a right to expect it. Most women I know don't understand how sex is the most important thing to a lot of men (and it's not the most important thing to all husbands) and it wouldn't make them behave any differently if they did because they have their own needs and preferences, and his don't take precedence over theirs.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> We met in our early to mid thirties. She was previously married. I was not. I had some relationships but nothing serious. When I met her I liked her and asked her to marry me.
> I don’t have any secrets nor do I think she has. I think she has been open with me from the beginning But I really don’t know but I do t think so
> 
> we were intimate and had sex regularly. It wa a great. (Probably like most people). For a period of 1 1/2 I was working like crazy and doing my mba and we had our first child. Sex during this period was also non existent but we were a little active (exhausted but active)
> ...


I will watch the Ted talk thank you for mentioning it


Personal said:


> If you still care for her in any way, you ought to stop creating that kind of stress by divorcing her.


Thank you. My intentions are not to divorce however I am starting to wonder if from a long term perspective if this is something I can live with hence why I am reaching out. We also do need to talk about it which seems to be an issue. How long should that go on for (rhetorical question). In 10 years from now we are still in the same situation....trying to figure this out and seek out any advice anyone has to offer
Appreciate it


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Since so many of you don’t want to divorce to forfeit half of your money/assets - tell your spouse that you will be finding the sex outside the marriage.
> If they aren’t willing to meet your needs they should know you’ll get that elsewhere.
> But honestly I don’t know why staying married to someone so self centered is a good plan.


I appreciate what you say..but what if she has lost interest in sex. Just no apetite for it. Threatening divorce/ leaving or looking for sex elsewhere is just not going to do anything but make her feel worse. This is just one of my struggles


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Do you both work from home? If you do, some find that familiarity breeds contempt.
> 
> At the present, you may conclude that your wife really does not want to have sex with you. You can't talk her into desire, demand desire or threaten her into desire. For whatever reason, it isn't there. If this is a deal breaker for you, tell her that you have concluded that you two are simply incompatible and it is time to restructure your lives so that your wants can be accommodated.
> 
> Do you know why her first marriage failed?


Thank you. All I know was that they fought alot and should not have married - what she told me.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, it's a two-way street. They both have feelings and needs, and they simply don't match up anymore, and they're both prioritizing what they want over what the other wants, but neither has the trump card. Neither should expect the other to sacrifice themselves for them beyond what they are comfortable with. No one should expect they have a right to be "serviced." If the other wants to, fine, and I think a lot of the time, most do as much as they're willing. But it's not a right to expect it. Most women I know don't understand how sex is the most important thing to a lot of men (and it's not the most important thing to all husbands) and it wouldn't make them behave any differently if they did because they have their own needs and preferences, and his don't take precedence over theirs.


I agree with what you say. I think if my wife does not want sex that should be fine. My struggle is what I do. If my wife has no interest in sex anymore is it ok for me to think of us as roomates? Do I even ask about it? Or do I throw in the towel and just say ok I have tried but I need to find what I am looking for. We all do things we dont like. Unfortunately I dont put sex in that. If I did not want to have sex with someone I would not like to be forced or feel like I need to. If I did I would rethink the relationship. However if I am in a marriage (I would not have gotten invovled in a marriage if I thought I would not want to have sex with this person). Of course hindsight is 20/20. I am sure neither of us thought this early on.

I feel for anyone in my shoes or her shoes. Its ****ty. Sex and intimacy may not be important to some people but for others it is part of being in love and being with their spouse or significant other. Sex and intimacy builds strong bonds, confidence, assurance, love etc. I think without sex some people become very insecure and have a loss of confidence. I know I have. Is it ok to allow this to happen to me? I can deal with it temporarily but is this my life going forward (not looking for an answer). 

Sex in my opinion is important. Without it we would not exist. It is part of our dna and our fabric. Some people may not enjoy it; others love it; it brings people closer....I just dont know what to do. I love my wife but I cannot keep doing this.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I appreciate what you say..but what if she has lost interest in sex. Just no apetite for it. Threatening divorce/ leaving or looking for sex elsewhere is just not going to do anything but make her feel worse. This is just one of my struggles


The amount of concern you have for her comfort, in the midst of her having very little concern for yours, is not serving you well.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, it's a two-way street. They both have feelings and needs, and they simply don't match up anymore, and they're both prioritizing what they want over what the other wants, but neither has the trump card. Neither should expect the other to sacrifice themselves for them beyond what they are comfortable with. No one should expect they have a right to be "serviced." If the other wants to, fine, and I think a lot of the time, most do as much as they're willing. But it's not a right to expect it. Most women I know don't understand how sex is the most important thing to a lot of men (and it's not the most important thing to all husbands) and it wouldn't make them behave any differently if they did because they have their own needs and preferences, and his don't take precedence over theirs.


Its not the most important thing to me but we have everything else (good health, financially stable, no kids in the house, etc) so I do think its important enough that we should have sex more than just a few times a month. And have her have some real interest in it and not just do it for me as duty sex.

But you may be right as she has recently told me sex is not all that important to her if the other conditions aren't met. (emotional connection, in a good mood, clean house, nothing else to worry about, etc) All the usual things we have dicussed here before. So she may be one of the women you refer to?


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, it's a two-way street. They both have feelings and needs, and they simply don't match up anymore, and they're both prioritizing what they want over what the other wants, but neither has the trump card. Neither should expect the other to sacrifice themselves for them beyond what they are comfortable with. No one should expect they have a right to be "serviced." If the other wants to, fine, and I think a lot of the time, most do as much as they're willing. But it's not a right to expect it. Most women I know don't understand how sex is the most important thing to a lot of men (and it's not the most important thing to all husbands) and it wouldn't make them behave any differently if they did because they have their own needs and preferences, and his don't take precedence over theirs.


feelings and needs are one thing but when it comes to sex the man or the women can’t go elsewhere to have those needs met without it being not allowed in marriage. For every other single need they can get elsewhere without.

If her needs have changed during this period that’s of course her prerogative. However to say she doesn’t understand how this is putting her marriage under severe strain or not realising how important sex is for her husband is nonsense.

Its complete and utter selfishness. And a reason why I don’t believe marriage works. In my opinion you should be allowed two wives. One who’s the mother of your children and one who isn’t for when the first one decides she’s not willing to do the one thing that separates them from being friends.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Its not the most important thing to me but we have everything else (good health, financially stable, no kids in the house, etc) so I do think its important enough that we should have sex more than just a few times a month. And have her have some real interest in it and not just do it for me as duty sex.
> 
> But you may be right as she has recently told me sex is not all that important to her if the other conditions aren't met. (emotional connection, in a good mood, clean house, nothing else to worry about, etc) All the usual things we have dicussed here before. So she may be one of the women you refer to?


And you need to realize it's nothing she can help. Of course, the way you said she phrased it, it sort of seems like extortion. I hope not. Usually, it's just kind of going through busy times in life when you have to rearrange your priorities to get everything done, being exhausted, or having to focus on something else and having just no space left for it. But then there is also plenty of just loses attraction for any given reason. Can't help either one of those. I do think that afflicts women more than men, for a variety of reasons, mainly because sex is just not the priority for them to begin with it is for a lot of men. Men will have sex no matter if someone is mad at them. They'll have sex after a bad day at work or while the baby's crying. Because it's on their brains. Women run hot when young and courting and excited about getting the attention and getting to know someone. Some run hotter longer. Their bodies change more than men's both internally and externally. Bottom line, it's just not as important to them. 

So sadly, even if you do everything perfect, it can't change every scenario into more sex. But in a lot of scenarios, it certainly can help keep things running smoothly.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BIL310 said:


> feelings and needs are one thing but when it comes to sex the man or the women can’t go elsewhere to have those needs met without it being not allowed in marriage. For every other single need they can get elsewhere without.
> 
> If her needs have changed during this period that’s of course her prerogative. However to say she doesn’t understand how this is putting her marriage under severe strain or not realising how important sex is for her husband is nonsense.
> 
> Its complete and utter selfishness. And a reason why I don’t believe marriage works. In my opinion you should be allowed two wives. One who’s the mother of your children and one who isn’t for when the first one decides she’s not willing to do the one thing that separates them from being friends.


Seriously, a lot of women just can't fathom how stuck on sex men are. And it's not all men, so they hear about plenty of couples for whom it's not as big of an issue. Usually, they are very put off if they do find out their man is in it mostly for sex, and then that just makes sex even more unsavory to them. 

Seriously, until I was on this particular board (and before this I was on a relationship board for years and didn't catch the drift there), I had no idea there were men who seriously thought sex was the most important thing in marriage. And I'm 69. But see, I never had any sex frequency issues when I was young and dating (I'm not married). In fact, it was sometimes me who wished one would wake up in the morning for it. So I never heard the ugly truth. Plus the guys I liked did have other priorities in life. So it was so much more balanced. They weren't obsessed with sex, but they had it plenty, best I can tell.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I agree with what you say. I think if my wife does not want sex that should be fine. My struggle is what I do. If my wife has no interest in sex anymore is it ok for me to think of us as roomates? Do I even ask about it? Or do I throw in the towel and just say ok I have tried but I need to find what I am looking for. We all do things we dont like. Unfortunately I dont put sex in that. If I did not want to have sex with someone I would not like to be forced or feel like I need to. If I did I would rethink the relationship. However if I am in a marriage (I would not have gotten invovled in a marriage if I thought I would not want to have sex with this person). Of course hindsight is 20/20. I am sure neither of us thought this early on.
> 
> I feel for anyone in my shoes or her shoes. Its ****ty. Sex and intimacy may not be important to some people but for others it is part of being in love and being with their spouse or significant other. Sex and intimacy builds strong bonds, confidence, assurance, love etc. I think without sex some people become very insecure and have a loss of confidence. I know I have. Is it ok to allow this to happen to me? I can deal with it temporarily but is this my life going forward (not looking for an answer).
> 
> Sex in my opinion is important. Without it we would not exist. It is part of our dna and our fabric. Some people may not enjoy it; others love it; it brings people closer....I just dont know what to do. I love my wife but I cannot keep doing this.


I don't want you to give up on it yet. And please understand that having sex you don't want has dark emotional implications that running the sweeper you don't want to run doesn't have. That's why rape in marriage is illegal. Women in this day and age and in civilized countries won't be treated as concubines and chattel. Being treated that way scars them for life. 

For most, having an affair isn't going to fly. I mean, it is putting off the inevitable if the situation is hopeless. I'm sorry you are one of those men who can't feel loved unless you have sex. There are a few of those around, but mercifully, not all are like that. That's a lot of pressure on a mate. I hope yours gets better at some point because I sense that you do have love between you.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And you need to realize it's nothing she can help. Of course, the way you said she phrased it, it sort of seems like extortion. I hope not. Usually, it's just kind of going through busy times in life when you have to rearrange your priorities to get everything done, being exhausted, or having to focus on something else and having just no space left for it. But then there is also plenty of just loses attraction for any given reason. Can't help either one of those. I do think that afflicts women more than men, for a variety of reasons, mainly because sex is just not the priority for them to begin with it is for a lot of men. Men will have sex no matter if someone is mad at them. They'll have sex after a bad day at work or while the baby's crying. Because it's on their brains. Women run hot when young and courting and excited about getting the attention and getting to know someone. Some run hotter longer. Their bodies change more than men's both internally and externally. Bottom line, it's just not as important to them.
> 
> So sadly, even if you do everything perfect, it can't change every scenario into more sex. But in a lot of scenarios, it certainly can help keep things running smoothly.


This is the problem. To put it another way what you’ve said is that women will be running hot when initially courting and getting attention but when that ends which it has to and normal marriage kicks in with kids, cleaning, work, bodies changing then the fun stops.

so whilst this is all happening most normal men are walking round like a wild dog steaming because their wives treat them basically like house mates.

Hence why I believe marriage is an outdated institution. It doesn’t work for the majority of people.

it’s bait and switch for men.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't want you to give up on it yet. And please understand that having sex you don't want has dark emotional implications that running the sweeper you don't want to run doesn't have. That's why rape in marriage is illegal. Women in this day and age and in civilized countries won't be treated as concubines and chattel. Being treated that way scars them for life.
> 
> For most, having an affair isn't going to fly. I mean, it is putting off the inevitable if the situation is hopeless. I'm sorry you are one of those men who can't feel loved unless you have sex. There are a few of those around, but mercifully, not all are like that. That's a lot of pressure on a mate. I hope yours gets better at some point because I sense that you do have love between you.


I appreciate what you say. I know she loves me and cares for me. But sex is not interesting for her. I feel as though we live in the same house but we are just good friends. And look I think if that is what she wants and she has lost her attraction for me or is not interested in me etc I think she should say something. I know it is hard. But I am so confused...why stay married if you are no longer attracted or want to do things. I would rather her find someone she likes and enjoys spending time with than to spend it with me and I would rather find someone who is compatible with me. (I say this outloud. I dont want this of course. I would like us to figure it out but if we cannot I dont want her deceiving herself or me). If that makes any sense. I am not advocating for threats or ultimatums but more of a realistic conversation about where we go. Because for me a sexless relationship with someone you love is just heartbreaking. Not interested in random sex with people outside of marriage as some have suggested


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

I appreciate all of your responses. I am reading all of them and processing all of them. I appreciate it.
I hope all of you are happy in your life. I know life can be challenging at times. 
I am fairly happy and really my only complaint is the one I mention. I hope it is resolvable.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thanks for the response. *I dont think there is another person involved. I do trust her. I dont think she is cheating. *We do try and talk about it. I try but it ends up being a huge fight with a lot of "Im sorries" I also would hate to threaten the end of marriage as I would like this kind of resolved even if that means divorce. I think if I threaten it I would not like the outcome either way.
> I have read about people just leaving and I feel as though that may be the answer


just wanted to say that what I put in bold—— that has not one single thing to do with her whatsoever. Whether she is cheating is not affected by if you trust her, if you think she is, or whatever. You should do some researching to rule that out if you wanted. However, it’s unimportant because the reason she doesn’t want sex with you doesn’t change the fact that she doesn’t want to have sex with you.
Make up your mind and divorce her and at least try for a happier life. She’s a dud, either way you try to light her up.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I don't want you to give up on it yet. And please understand that having sex you don't want has dark emotional implications that running the sweeper you don't want to run doesn't have. That's why rape in marriage is illegal. Women in this day and age and in civilized countries won't be treated as concubines and chattel. Being treated that way scars them for life.
> 
> For most, having an affair isn't going to fly. I mean, it is putting off the inevitable if the situation is hopeless. I'm sorry you are one of those men who can't feel loved unless you have sex. There are a few of those around, but mercifully, not all are like that. That's a lot of pressure on a mate. I hope yours gets better at some point because I sense that you do have love between you.


I would not want her (my wife) or myself to have sex they dont want. That is certainly not what I want


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> just wanted to say that what I put in bold—— that has not one single thing to do with her whatsoever. Whether she is cheating is not affected by if you trust her, if you think she is, or whatever. You should do some researching to rule that out if you wanted. However, it’s unimportant because the reason she doesn’t want sex with you doesn’t change the fact that she doesn’t want to have sex with you.
> Make up your mind and divorce her and at least try for a happier life. She’s a dud, either way you try to light her up.


Thank you... I only put that up because some folks have suggested if there was anyone else in the picture. Meaning if she is having sex elsewhere. 
I think she is ok with no sex for the rest of our lives together. I think. But there may be some underlying health issues as well. I am sensitive to that. I am just gathering as much feedback from all of you to help me understand. We cannot seem to talk about it (that is another issue).


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Seriously, a lot of women just can't fathom how stuck on sex men are. And it's not all men, so they hear about plenty of couples for whom it's not as big of an issue. Usually, they are very put off if they do find out their man is in it mostly for sex, and then that just makes sex even more unsavory to them.
> 
> Seriously, until I was on this particular board (and before this I was on a relationship board for years and didn't catch the drift there), I had no idea there were men who seriously thought sex was the most important thing in marriage. And I'm 69. But see, I never had any sex frequency issues when I was young and dating (I'm not married). In fact, it was sometimes me who wished one would wake up in the morning for it. So I never heard the ugly truth. Plus the guys I liked did have other priorities in life. So it was so much more balanced. They weren't obsessed with sex, but they had it plenty, best I can tell.


Men aren’t always starving for sex. Like most normal humans on the planet, however, we are starving (if we don’t have it) for a romantic, intimate, close relationship where we strongly desire the other person’s company, not just sex.
It’s just that sex is three letters and easier to say, and it’s the epitome of being shown one is physically and emotionally desired by their spouse.
Myself, I could easily have sex every night of the month with a different woman. I want one to LoVE. I want to wake up in the morning after already having had sex, not even wanting it, and STILL feeling so happy she is there and looking forward to spending the day with, and snuggling with.
I don’t think I’m an exception. Most men want this. And most men can find sex if that’s all they wanted.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you... I only put that up because some folks have suggested if there was anyone else in the picture. Meaning if she is having sex elsewhere.
> I think she is ok with no sex for the rest of our lives together. I think. But there may be some underlying health issues as well. I am sensitive to that. I am just gathering as much feedback from all of you to help me understand. We cannot seem to talk about it (that is another issue).


It’s really the same exact issue. I want you to see thst


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Men aren’t always starving for sex. Like most normal humans on the planet, however, we are starving (if we don’t have it) for a romantic, intimate, close relationship where we strongly desire the other person’s company, not just sex.
> It’s just that sex is three letters and easier to say, and it’s the epitome of being shown one is physically and emotionally desired by their spouse.
> Myself, I could easily have sex every night of the month with a different woman. I want one to LoVE. I want to wake up in the morning after already having had sex, not even wanting it, and STILL feeling so happy she is there and looking forward to spending the day with, and snuggling with.
> I don’t think I’m an exception. Most men want this. And most men can find sex if that’s all they wanted.


I could not agree with you more. I think finding sex is quite easy. For me its wanting sex with the person I married. That is it and that is all. If that cannot happen I am not worried about finding it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I appreciate what you say. I know she loves me and cares for me. But sex is not interesting for her. I feel as though we live in the same house but we are just good friends. And look I think if that is what she wants and she has lost her attraction for me or is not interested in me etc I think she should say something. I know it is hard. But I am so confused...why stay married if you are no longer attracted or want to do things. I would rather her find someone she likes and enjoys spending time with than to spend it with me and I would rather find someone who is compatible with me. (I say this outloud. I dont want this of course. I would like us to figure it out but if we cannot I dont want her deceiving herself or me). If that makes any sense. I am not advocating for threats or ultimatums but more of a realistic conversation about where we go. Because for me a sexless relationship with someone you love is just heartbreaking. Not interested in random sex with people outside of marriage as some have suggested


I think she should be clear about it too! Obviously, she doesn't want the marriage to end or doesn't think he conceivably could because of it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I would not want her (my wife) or myself to have sex they dont want. That is certainly not what I want


I know.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think she should be clear about it too! Obviously, she doesn't want the marriage to end or doesn't think he conceivably could because of it.


I dont think she wants it to end but I think she struggles with sex and me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> Men aren’t always starving for sex. Like most normal humans on the planet, however, we are starving (if we don’t have it) for a romantic, intimate, close relationship where we strongly desire the other person’s company, not just sex.
> It’s just that sex is three letters and easier to say, and it’s the epitome of being shown one is physically and emotionally desired by their spouse.
> Myself, I could easily have sex every night of the month with a different woman. I want one to LoVE. I want to wake up in the morning after already having had sex, not even wanting it, and STILL feeling so happy she is there and looking forward to spending the day with, and snuggling with.
> I don’t think I’m an exception. Most men want this. And most men can find sex if that’s all they wanted.


I believe some of what you say, but pressuring for sex when a woman is not in the mood for it is NOT being loving, and if you get it right then, it won't be loving in return. It will be begrudging and resentment. I mean, that just comes down again to some people feeling entitled to get sex whenever they want it. While insisting by "sex," they mean love, they don't know what love is if they have no consideration for the other's feelings. For those who describe their needs this way, which is by no means everyone, it's like saying, You must give me love and desire on demand, no matter what YOU want at the moment. You must be desiring me all the time, no matter what your life and day is, no matter what a punk I've been to you otherwise lately. That's unrealistic. You're not going to get that, and that's not love.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I dont think she wants it to end but I think she struggles with sex and me.


It's something you will have to get her healthy first and then see if you can agree on some counseling, I think, but that may not fix it, but maybe it will drag the truth out of both of you so you can put it on the table and see if there's any solution. I hope so.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

You know, a lot of women are cautioned from the time they're teenagers that a lot of men are just wanting sex and to avoid those guys. And who is telling them this very often and most effectively is their fathers, because they know just how true it is and don't want their girls to have to deal with that. 

But they end up having to deal with that. Most are cautious and on the lookout for red flags that this is all they want, so boys have become very skilled at lying and saying what they want to hear. 

Eventually, they find one they are convinced really just loves them. He doesn't seem to only want sex, because he shows he cares about her in other ways. So she holds onto him. And a lot of them are good guys who have their priorities straight, are considerate, and live a balanced life. But some of them end up with someone who cares more about sex than anything and can only feel love and validation if his wife submits to him and places his needs before her own, and no one warned her about him. 

See, a lot of girls and young women already think men have sex for love and believe that look in their eye during lovemaking means love, even though sometimes it just means they love sex, so they can't really make the distinction and wouldn't believe you if you told them. And then at some point, they usually end up hurt and learn the hard way, and they'll never look at men the same.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm sorry you are one of those men who can't feel loved unless you have sex. There are a few of those around, but mercifully, not all are like that.


Interesting..


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Kaliber said:


> Interesting..


Oh, I'm not meaning never have sex. I'm just meaning in the context of day in and day out.

You should still be able to love and feel love on a day off from sex! If not, that's a craving for constant validation, which isn't healthy. I don't think that is the case with this OP, however. I think they love each other. I think he knows it. But he's just not getting ANY sex, and I hope that gets fixed some way.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I appreciate what you say..but what if she has lost interest in sex. Just no apetite for it. Threatening divorce/ leaving or looking for sex elsewhere is just not going to do anything but make her feel worse. This is just one of my struggles


Wait, she isn’t worried about you feeling worse.
Do you get that part?
Why are you supposed to make sure she is happy when she isn’t interested in your basic needs being met?


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I believe some of what you say, but pressuring for sex when a woman is not in the mood for it is NOT being loving, and if you get it right then, it won't be loving in return. It will be begrudging and resentment. I mean, that just comes down again to some people feeling entitled to get sex whenever they want it. While insisting by "sex," they mean love, they don't know what love is if they have no consideration for the other's feelings. For those who describe their needs this way, which is by no means everyone, it's like saying, You must give me love and desire on demand, no matter what YOU want at the moment. You must be desiring me all the time, no matter what your life and day is, no matter what a punk I've been to you otherwise lately. That's unrealistic. You're not going to get that, and that's not love.


Thank you. I appreciate what you say but that is not what I was trying to say. I certainly dont want any pressure for her. I just want to know where I fit if there is not longer any interest in sex with me. It is a terrible discussion because I think it feels like how you mention it above. I would like my wife to want to desire me and have sex with me. I think people would. Its just that it is not happening. That is the delema I have. To suggest she HAS to is not at all what I want. But to try and understand what is happening with us is very important. I think she loves me and i think she is stuck as well. She loves me but may not want to have sex with me. I understand people are ok with it. I on the other hand love her and would love to have sex with her. If health issues are the issue I am sure we can get through it. Many people do. But lets say that there are no health issues or that they get resolved. Do we stay together until some future date where we both just hate being together. 
Again I am not in any ways saying I need to have sex or this is over even though it sounds this way. 
I guess if you replace sex with something like a hug and kiss. If you are a person that wants hugs and kisses and that satisfies you...what if your partner does not want to give hugs and kisses. Do you accept that; discuss it; move on?
or replace hugs and kisses with doing things together. You want to do somehting but she/ he does not. And this plays out time and time again. Would you not start to take it personally or at least start thinking maybe this person is not for me. You cannot force anyone to and if you did would it really make you feel like they like you...I dont think so
Anyways I do appreciate your response/ feedback


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> Wait, she isn’t worried about you feeling worse.
> Do you get that part?
> Why are you supposed to make sure she is happy when she isn’t interested in your basic needs being met?


Did you miss the part where she has a painful health condition?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you. I appreciate what you say but that is not what I was trying to say. I certainly dont want any pressure for her. I just want to know where I fit if there is not longer any interest in sex with me. It is a terrible discussion because I think it feels like how you mention it above. I would like my wife to want to desire me and have sex with me. I think people would. Its just that it is not happening. That is the delema I have. To suggest she HAS to is not at all what I want. But to try and understand what is happening with us is very important. I think she loves me and i think she is stuck as well. She loves me but may not want to have sex with me. I understand people are ok with it. I on the other hand love her and would love to have sex with her. If health issues are the issue I am sure we can get through it. Many people do. But lets say that there are no health issues or that they get resolved. Do we stay together until some future date where we both just hate being together.
> Again I am not in any ways saying I need to have sex or this is over even though it sounds this way.
> I guess if you replace sex with something like a hug and kiss. If you are a person that wants hugs and kisses and that satisfies you...what if your partner does not want to give hugs and kisses. Do you accept that; discuss it; move on?
> or replace hugs and kisses with doing things together. You want to do somehting but she/ he does not. And this plays out time and time again. Would you not start to take it personally or at least start thinking maybe this person is not for me. You cannot force anyone to and if you did would it really make you feel like they like you...I dont think so
> Anyways I do appreciate your response/ feedback


I realize your dilemma. She's got to clear up her physical problem and heal from surgery again, and then at that point, you will have to insist on getting clarity from her and laying it all out on the table. It's a problem. I sure hope she gets that surgery soon and gets that part over with so you can get down to what is going on.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Wait, she isn’t worried about you feeling worse.
> Do you get that part?
> Why are you supposed to make sure she is happy when she isn’t interested in your basic needs being met?


I think she is worried about the way I feel. But that does not change her having sex with me (nor do I want her to have sex with me because she feels she has to).
I guess I just dont want people including me to feel upset or angry or anything. We all have choices. She can stay with me (she seems happy to except when we discuss personal stuff like sex); I can leave. Overall I just want us to be happy (preferably together). But for me part of that being together is having some form of intimacy and doing things together. 
I dont know if I make sense. I just dont want to make it sound like I am insensitive to her not having sex.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I realize your dilemma. She's got to clear up her physical problem and heal from surgery again, and then at that point, you will have to insist on getting clarity from her and laying it all out on the table. It's a problem. I sure hope she gets that surgery soon and gets that part over with so you can get down to what is going on.


I hope so to thank you. She is hesitant about getting another surgery for fear she feels worse. 
Thank you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I hope so to thank you. She is hesitant about getting another surgery for fear she feels worse.
> Thank you.


She needs to do what her doctor says to do. Now, if she doesn't like the surgeon who put that one in there, maybe she can use another surgeon or doctor. How long has it been since she got the mesh put in originally?


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Did you miss the part where she has a painful health condition?


No I did not miss that. But sex was an issue before that. Hence why I am on this board to see all feedback and see if anyone has experienced something similar I dont want to appear insensistive about this at all. 
My experience tells me that health condition or no health condition nothing will change. 
Again I dont want to sound like an a-hole


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She needs to do what her doctor says to do. Now, if she doesn't like the surgeon who put that one in there, maybe she can use another surgeon or doctor. How long has it been since she got the mesh put in originally?


We have been looking for doctors. If you are familiar with mesh removal...you can do more harm. There are only a few surgeons that specialize in mesh removal. its been about 10 years.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> No I did not miss that. But sex was an issue before that. Hence why I am on this board to see all feedback and see if anyone has experienced something similar I dont want to appear insensistive about this at all.
> My experience tells me that health condition or no health condition nothing will change.
> Again I dont want to sound like an a-hole


No. I was talking to a different poster, sorry for the confusion. I know you didn't miss it. 

Have you just asked her if she gets this physical problem resolved and back to normal, whether she foresees sex returning to the marriage? Does she work? I mean, if she is not able to work or something like that, of course, you'd probably at least want to get her back on her feet so she could take care of herself before deciding to divorce. If she's able to work and it's not killing her to do so, then if she needs surgery but says nothing will change sexwise, then does she have someone else, a relative, in the area who could tend to her after surgery if it comes to that?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> We have been looking for doctors. If you are familiar with mesh removal...you can do more harm. There are only a few surgeons that specialize in mesh removal. its been about 10 years.


Yeah, that's a long time to let it go. But I'm not seeing anything that says if there is a time that it is "too long." Here is one article that was informative.









Hernia Mesh Removal Surgical Options, Risks & Benefits


When hernia mesh causes complications such as infection and severe pain, removal surgery may be the only option for relief from symptoms.




www.drugwatch.com


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> No I did not miss that. But sex was an issue before that. Hence why I am on this board to see all feedback and see if anyone has experienced something similar I dont want to appear insensistive about this at all.
> My experience tells me that health condition or no health condition nothing will change.
> Again I dont want to sound like an a-hole


Your experience is correct

there is a difference between loving someone and being in love with them. Your wife isn’t in love with you.
She’s likely very comfortable in the security and comfort you provide. What you’re experiencing is pretty much like being married to a friend who has no interest in actually dating you.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> OP, your wife sounds like mine. She always has an excuse as to why she isn't interested. Just last evening we got into another argument about sex. No matter what I say, its my fault as I "don't know how she feels", "women are different and they don't just want sex for sex like men do", "she is stressed about the house not being clean so is not in the mood", etc. I have heard them all.
> 
> And then when I remind her its been two weeks since we had sex, I get laid into for keeping track of it. And then I get blamed for a host of reasons why she doesn't want sex with me. It is of course all my fault.
> 
> ...


I hope at least you have been able to establish your OWN life -- do your own things, your own hobbies, and go out and do things YOU like to do.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> her if the other conditions aren't met. (emotional connection, in a good mood, clean house, nothing else to worry about, etc) All the usual things we have dicussed here before.


So to translate "Sex is at the BOTTOM of my list of things that matter to me" -- a clean house comes before being emotionally connected with you?? Wow.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No. I was talking to a different poster, sorry for the confusion. I know you didn't miss it.
> 
> Have you just asked her if she gets this physical problem resolved and back to normal, whether she foresees sex returning to the marriage? Does she work? I mean, if she is not able to work or something like that, of course, you'd probably at least want to get her back on her feet so she could take care of herself before deciding to divorce. If she's able to work and it's not killing her to do so, then if she needs surgery but says nothing will change sexwise, then does she have someone else, a relative, in the area who could tend to her after surgery if it comes to that?


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Hi ok understood. It’s hard to discern her health issues. She is in some sort of discomfort for sure I believe that. I don’t see why she would lie about it. It’s just that it does not seem to stop her from working out and doing other things that would affect that area. (Again I don’t want to sound like an a-hole but I am starting to see things and making connection which may not be warranted. Prior to the health situations it was me and how I was not helping around the house (I was helping but not in the areas she wanted which I totally understand. I took over the meals (I am ok with as I enjoy cooking) and grocery shopping. I did that amd then it was we were going to bed too late for sex. So when the kids schedule changed to waking up at 600 I started going to bed earlier at which time it was too early for bed (for her)
Anyways I am just getting into the nitty gritty. Needless to say I feel as though it’s more excuses and I don’t know what to do. If I bring it up I am insensitive 

We both work. We both have our own businesses and have flexibility. 

I just feel that it’s me. At the end of the day it is me. I am the reason she does not want to have sex. I don’t think it will matter. The more I read these posts and answer them the more I realize that this may not resolve. 
Thank you for your poat


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> I hope at least you have been able to establish your OWN life -- do your own things, your own hobbies, and go out and do things YOU like to do.


Oh yes for sure. I am quite independent but she is a part of my life. I am active; I have friends; I do things; I don’t have a lot of hobbies but I enjoy doing things. Staying busy is not the issue for me 
We are all a little selfish. 
Me I want to spend time with my family and be with my wife. Sex with my wife was awesome and loved it on many levels. Yes I am selfiah


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> I hope at least you have been able to establish your OWN life -- do your own things, your own hobbies, and go out and do things YOU like to do.


Thank you for sharing. I am sorry to hear what you are going through. If you are like me just try and figure things out until you are over 100% sure you are going to do what you are going to do. 
I understand the comment of keeping tabs on when you have sex. We have so little sex it is not hard to keep track of it. So when I make a comment it’s totally understandable. It’s like saying…how many wedding have you gone to this year (trying to add some humour)
Anyways try not to take it personally. Focus on your health and family. I make sure my sister is ok and my kids are ok. Don’t fight in front of anyone
Good luck with you. I hope you figure it out 
I have never felt so alone and insecure about me. But I do believe experiences make you stronger 
Goodmluck


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> So to translate "Sex is at the BOTTOM of my list of things that matter to me" -- a clean house comes before being emotionally connected with you?? Wow.





Evinrude58 said:


> Your experience is correct
> 
> there is a difference between loving someone and being in love with them. Your wife isn’t in love with you.
> She’s likely very comfortable in the security and comfort you provide. What you’re experiencing is pretty much like being married to a friend who has no interest in actually dating you.


That is what I also an leaning towards. I was thinking maybe we should separate for a bit to see if anything changes or if things reinforce. Meaning we are both comfortable be g separated and not want to come back together


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yeah, that's a long time to let it go. But I'm not seeing anything that says if there is a time that it is "too long." Here is one article that was informative.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing the article. A couple of doctors quoted my wife has spoken to. 
She has had one surgery that did not go well as now she may be planning another. Thank you for sharing. I have sent her the article


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thanks for sharing the article. A couple of doctors quoted my wife has spoken to.
> She has had one surgery that did not go well as now she may be planning another. Thank you for sharing. I have sent her the article


I also did read it and found it useful


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You said you didn’t know why she wikis lie about the surgery, pain, etc.
She’s lie so she could use it as yet another excuse not to have sex with you. Read some other threads pertaining to your problem. Moving the goal post is a textbook strategy.

Just divorce her. You’ve given her every chance. You know what the result of waiting is? It’s another lost decade of sharing life with a woman that has done passion for you. Your Love for your wife has nothing to do with how much she loves you. It’s sad. It’s heartbreaking for you. It is what it is.
She is NOT the only woman you can love.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> You said you didn’t know why she wikis lie about the surgery, pain, etc.
> She’s lie so she could use it as yet another excuse not to have sex with you. Read some other threads pertaining to your problem. Moving the goal post is a textbook strategy.
> 
> Just divorce her. You’ve given her every chance. You know what the result of waiting is? It’s another lost decade of sharing life with a woman that has done passion for you. Your Love for your wife has nothing to do with how much she loves you. It’s sad. It’s heartbreaking for you. It is what it is.
> She is NOT the only woman you can love.


Geez. Brutal honesty. I do appreciate it. I am not there yet but I certainly hear and understand what you are saying. Unfortunately I may have to go through a bit more time. Maybe it’s a process. I do hope that process helps me (us) but I may be in the situation you describe. I hope not. 
Thank you. Appreciate it


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Hi ok understood. It’s hard to discern her health issues. She is in some sort of discomfort for sure I believe that. I don’t see why she would lie about it. It’s just that it does not seem to stop her from working out and doing other things that would affect that area. (Again I don’t want to sound like an a-hole but I am starting to see things and making connection which may not be warranted.


Yet she can work out and do other things. 🤣

At the end of the day It is pretty clear, she is loathe to have sex with you, now of course she is free to choose not to have sex with you. Yet make no mistake she's just plying you with excuses (that you're so far buying), to keep you at bay while you're choosing to stick by her.

Of which to give you some perspective on the nonsense you are being fed, I'll tell you about my wife as an example.

...

I have been with my wife for 25 years so far, and as a pedestrian she has been hit by a speeding car causing her to have plastic surgery to repair her face, while her knees had been smashed as well. On top of that through all of those years, she has had half of her thyroid removed because it was strangling her airway. She also has multiple plates and pins in one of her legs, because one of her legs got demolished in a work accident. She also has a damaged tailbone, from another workplace accident before I met her. Plus she has fibroids, and has also experienced two abortions. While also having given birth to two children vaginally, and in one instance had tearing which required stitching. Then on top of that she has had breast cancer, and the associated treatment for it including surgery.

At the same time my wife has managed to help raise our two children together, who are now young adults, one is a currently a full-time high achieving university student with a part time job. While the other one has a debilitating chronic illness that requires a lot of attention and care. Plus she has also managed to maintain a successful career in government management roles while also earning multiple tertiary qualifications, managing many staff at different sites with complex budgets, in a highly evolving technological environment where she manages considerable change. All on top of sharing domestic chores. plus now going through the fun of menopause as well.

Yet through all of our time together up to today so far, excepting a few weeks here and there after any surgery, and the occasions when either of us has been apart through work mostly for a few days at time occasionally, and in our first few years together sometimes weeks and months apart. Our rich shared sex life has never waned, and that includes through pregnancies and breast feeding and having a baby and a toddler at the same time. So even today with us both being in our fifties after all of that and more, we are still rocking a wonderful, high passion, high frequency sex life together.

...

So please understand that the reason why you don't share much of or any sex life with your wife at all. Is simply because she doesn't want to share sex with you.



> Prior to the health situations it was me and how I was not helping around the house (I was helping but not in the areas she wanted which I totally understand. I took over the meals (I am ok with as I enjoy cooking) and grocery shopping. I did that amd then it was we were going to bed too late for sex. So when the kids schedule changed to waking up at 600 I started going to bed earlier at which time it was too early for bed (for her)


And every time you cross that line, she moves the goal post, because she simply doesn't want to behave like a wife.



> Anyways I am just getting into the nitty gritty. Needless to say I feel as though it’s more excuses and I don’t know what to do. If I bring it up I am insensitive


Round and round you go. I wonder do you ever get dizzy, going in circles with your wife to no end?

Since one thing for sure, given that you have been tolerating her BS excuses for years on end. Your wife would sensibly believe, that you will continue to swallow the turd sandwich that she is serving you forever after.

At the end of the day when your wife shows you who she actually is, you would do well to pay attention and believe her.

Given that, there is no time like now for setting her free from the burden of being married to you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You should NEVER have to beg someone to love you - and love you the way you want to be loved.
So nice she won’t (even when you beg) divorce her! She’s left you no options - because she simply isn’t interested. And that sucks that you are married to someone that selfish.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Seriously, a lot of women just can't fathom how stuck on sex men are.


I get what you says, but "stuck on sex" when we are having sex once a month? The problem is, the less you have sex, the more desperate you become and sex turns into an obsession, which, ultimately, will be seen as the only important thing in the marriage by the wife. Then you can't take it any more and you are divorcing your wife "just for sex". I think sometimes women lack insight on this matter, because sex is not important to them - well some of them. If your husband would like to connect once a week and not once a month, it reasonable to expect a compromise. If the wife is not prepared to compromise, then be honest and speak the truth. The problem is that a lot of women want to maintain the status quo and keep the family, so they are not honest about it. I agree that it's important to find the right balance and not pressurise, but the compromise must come from both partners. I rarely see that. It's usually a one way street and the wife is in charge of the sex life.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I get what you says, but "stuck on sex" when we are having sex once a month? The problem is, the less you have sex, the more desperate you become and sex turns into an obsession, which, ultimately, will be seen as the only important thing in the marriage by the wife. Then you can't take it any more and you are divorcing your wife "just for sex". I think sometimes women lack insight on this matter, because sex is not important to them - well some of them. If your husband would like to connect once a week and not once a month, it reasonable to expect a compromise. If the wife is not prepared to compromise, then be honest and speak the truth. The problem is that a lot of women want to maintain the status quo and keep the family, so they are not honest about it. I agree that it's important to find the right balance and not pressurise, but the compromise must come from both partners. I rarely see that. It's usually a one way street and the wife is in charge of the sex life.


I agree that at the point having sex with her husband feels like a violation to them, they need to be totally honest about it. Of course there are so many factors why they don't. I'm sure many of them hope that it resolves itself. But most of them just don't see why that is worth folding up a family for and it's just hard for them to fathom. Plus it's not like all guys are like that. I know a couple who reached a point where neither one of them really wanted sex anymore, and she told me they much better after that. Sex between them wasn't working out all that well anyway because he wasn't very hands-on at all and she was what I would consider higher drive than most. Before Viagra, women weren't the only ones who slowed down.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I agree that at the point having sex with her husband feels like a violation to them, they need to be totally honest about it. Of course there are so many factors why they don't. I'm sure many of them hope that it resolves itself. But most of them just don't see why that is worth folding up a family for and it's just hard for them to fathom. Plus it's not like all guys are like that. I know a couple who reached a point where neither one of them really wanted sex anymore, and she told me they much better after that. Sex between them wasn't working out all that well anyway because he wasn't very hands-on at all and she was what I would consider higher drive than most. Before Viagra, women weren't the only ones who slowed down.


Funnily enough, it all boils down to lack of communication, again...


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I get what you says, but "stuck on sex" when we are having sex once a month? The problem is, the less you have sex, the more desperate you become and sex turns into an obsession, which, ultimately, will be seen as the only important thing in the marriage by the wife. Then you can't take it any more and you are divorcing your wife "just for sex". I think sometimes women lack insight on this matter, because sex is not important to them - well some of them. If your husband would like to connect once a week and not once a month, it reasonable to expect a compromise. If the wife is not prepared to compromise, then be honest and speak the truth. The problem is that a lot of women want to maintain the status quo and keep the family, so they are not honest about it. I agree that it's important to find the right balance and not pressurise, but the compromise must come from both partners. I rarely see that. It's usually a one way street and the wife is in charge of the sex life.


Thank you. I had not thought about it that way. The leas you have the more obsessed you become with it which then becomes some sort of desperate frustration
I was feeling like I should be be feeling this way but maybe it’s normal. 
Kind of helps understanding how I feel a bit 
I have spoken to a few friends who recently divorced (both male and female friends) that I suspected had similar issues. Both did have similar issues. The female one saying she felt ignored and that intimacy was never at the forefront. She found someone else (she felt horrible and continues to feel bad about it) but she could not take the lack of intimacy. My male friend had commented that intimacy was zero in his relationship that he met someone else and realized he had to get a divorce. I know this is only 2 people out of the many I know but Hearing this makes me sad


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I agree that at the point having sex with her husband feels like a violation to them, they need to be totally honest about it. Of course there are so many factors why they don't. I'm sure many of them hope that it resolves itself. But most of them just don't see why that is worth folding up a family for and it's just hard for them to fathom. Plus it's not like all guys are like that. I know a couple who reached a point where neither one of them really wanted sex anymore, and she told me they much better after that. Sex between them wasn't working out all that well anyway because he wasn't very hands-on at all and she was what I would consider higher drive than most. Before Viagra, women weren't the only ones who slowed down.


Thank you for your post. I am not on any male enhancing drug. I do understand what you are saying but we are “Au natural” on this level.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Hi everyone,


You may have to give her some attention, without expectations, for awhile and see if that creates some affection for you on her side.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

jonty30 said:


> You may have to give her some attention, without expectations, for awhile and see if that creates some affection for you on her side.


well, yes... if she seems happy that you've finally back off and does nothing for weeks, then you have your answer...


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> well, yes... if she seems happy that you've finally back off and does nothing for weeks, then you have your answer...


It's something to try any way

Most women these days, if they are married to a decent man, are often reacting to past relationships that went badly for them. It can't always be repaired, but you have to give it a good faith effort first before taking other considerations.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you for your post. I am not on any male enhancing drug. I do understand what you are saying but we are “Au natural” on this level.


No I know. I was just sort of speaking generally to in absentia. This conversation gets kicked around over and over on this forum!


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> You may have to give her some attention, without expectations, for awhile and see if that creates some affection for you on her side.





jonty30 said:


> It's something to try any way
> 
> Most women these days, if they are married to a decent man, are often reacting to past relationships that went badly for them. It can't always be repaired, but you have to give it a good faith effort first before taking other considerations.





In Absentia said:


> Funnily enough, it all boils down to lack of communication, again...


Possibly but I have tried and tried. It may be coming out wrong

I know there are “two sides to every story”. I have tried a lot. Given her space; I have stopped suggesting to do things because she gets frustrated. I have just let her know if she wants to do something to let me know; I do all the cooking and groceries (which I enjoy and get time to look at new food ideas). We only do what she wants. I do what I want (by myself) but we do what she wants which I do enjoy no complaints. 
Overall I am a a happy guy. I really don’t complain because things that have to get done just need to get done. Work; meals; kids; family. My only complaint is lack of intimacy
She does have health issues and they do come up when we discuss intimacy. But prior to health issues we did have issues with intimacy and it was a host of other issues. I relate strongly with those mentioning “moving the goalposts”. I do feel that way

I don’t think I am unique in this situation. I just am trying to avoid any form of separation and if that is the only option I guess I am trying to figure out how to do it with 2 kiddos
We have built a life together. We have a stable home. We live in A great community. Lots of plus’
Sex is at the point (as someone in a previous post mentioned) almost become an obsession because of the lack of it. Is it that important? Am I making a bigger deal out of it? 
I have gone to see a therapist about this and after much discussing she suggested some of the stuff mentioned in these threads a d included seeing if an open relationship would satisfy things. (Me going out and having sex with others and wife knowing about it and being ok with it). 
I understand that may be ok for people but it is not for me. I would rather end my relationship that do this to someone 
And I would not be ok if I was involved with someone who wanted this type of relationship
I think I may just have to put a timeline in place and see if things improve. But….time also dampens the sex drive.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No I know. I was just sort of speaking generally to in absentia. This conversation gets kicked around over and over on this forum!
> [
> Understood. Thank yiu


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Possibly but I have tried and tried. It may be coming out wrong
> 
> I know there are “two sides to every story”. I have tried a lot. Given her space; I have stopped suggesting to do things because she gets frustrated. I have just let her know if she wants to do something to let me know; I do all the cooking and groceries (which I enjoy and get time to look at new food ideas). We only do what she wants. I do what I want (by myself) but we do what she wants which I do enjoy no complaints.
> Overall I am a a happy guy. I really don’t complain because things that have to get done just need to get done. Work; meals; kids; family. My only complaint is lack of intimacy
> ...


I can't speak for your past history and I don't want to assume anything, because it takes both.
If my partner wasn't willing to sleep with me, I woul


Daniel Felipe said:


> Possibly but I have tried and tried. It may be coming out wrong
> 
> I know there are “two sides to every story”. I have tried a lot. Given her space; I have stopped suggesting to do things because she gets frustrated. I have just let her know if she wants to do something to let me know; I do all the cooking and groceries (which I enjoy and get time to look at new food ideas). We only do what she wants. I do what I want (by myself) but we do what she wants which I do enjoy no complaints.
> Overall I am a a happy guy. I really don’t complain because things that have to get done just need to get done. Work; meals; kids; family. My only complaint is lack of intimacy
> ...


 I can't pass judgement on your situation. I would probably resort to porn before seeking sex outside marriage. Get a fantasy fulfillment before a real body. 
However, unless she is done with you in which the marriage is basically over, I would do what I can to try and create affection from her before doing anything else. 

It's not ok, in terms that she is not exercising goodwill towards you to try and heal the relationship, assuming that in her mind that you did something, which I'm not accusing you of doing anything. 
It's important for both partners to be reaching out to each other. It sucks when one isn't doing that.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There are some men on this forum who claim they want sex because it makes them feel love and they can't feel love without sex, but then some of those same men threatened divorce or stopped helping out around the house to coerce the wife back into having sex again, and that certainly did not get them love. It got them reluctant sex. It certainly did not make their wives love them more and just built resentment. So the only conclusion to be drawn by that is that they weren't really having sex to feel loved since they further eroded love to get sex. I mean they claim to only feel love when they're having sex but I can assure you that just because the resentful wife is having sex does not make her love you again. Just the opposite. So that is why I don't believe all that nonsense men say about that. 

So just be careful taking advice from those men who may be suggesting the 180 or to just stop contributing to maintaining day to day living together.

Your situation has some complexities that need to be sorted out before you can even get a clear picture. And I think you're a good enough man to see that through and wish you all the luck.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I don’t think I am unique in this situation. I just am trying to avoid any form of separation and if that is the only option I guess I am trying to figure out how to do it with 2 kiddos
> We have built a life together. We have a stable home. We live in A great community.


If that matters more than you never having sex, then embrace those things and embrace being in a sexless relationship. Since to do otherwise, is a poison pill, that will erode your marriage further if you don't embrace sexlessness within the marriage you have.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> well, yes... if she seems happy that you've finally back off and does nothing for weeks, then you have your answer...


Thing is, aside from any other problems there may be, she has a painful hernia with mesh that is messed up in her abdomen that is clouding the situation and probably really is painful. But unless she goes and has a second surgery (it's been 10 yrs and now deteriorated), even if that is a big part of the problem, he'll never know. It's a bad situation. I would approach it the same as if she had an undealt with mental or addiction issue and make clear she has to address the hernia mesh issue and at least give the marriage a chance of moving forward on a more normal path.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you for responding
> I know its been like this for about 8 years at least. My concern I guess was that when we first started having discussions about lack of sex *it was all related to me. What I was not doing etc*; then it became it was to late at night; then her being exhausted; etc. I felt like it was all excuses.
> Now I have brought up as you mention menopause but she says no.


What did she say you were or were not doing that lead to her not wanting sex?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Daniel Felipe,

There is a reason your wife does not want sex. The two most common reasons are 
1) She has a physical problem that has killed her sex drive.​2) Her emotional needs have not been met for a long time and no longer feels the desire to have sex with you.​
It does not sound like she has a physical problem that has led to a lost sex drive.

Instead it sounds like the second reason. Women tend to need a lot of non-sexual intimacy in a relationship to maintain their desire to have a sex life with their husband. There's an old saying that is corny but has some truth to it. "Women need a reason to have sex; men just need a place."

This does not mean that you, or she, have done anything wrong. It's just that most people don't know how to maintain a passionate marriage. There are not enough examples around us to teach us this. 

Non-sexual intimacy is time spent together talking and doing things together that you both enjoy... just to two of you. How many hours a week do you and your wife spend doing these sorts of things? What do you two do together?

Why is this necessary? This intimacy helps to maintain the levels of oxytocin, the bonding hormone. A lack of non-sexual intimacy for a woman leads to her body producing very little oxytocin. When a woman's oxytocin levels are too low she acts the way you describe your wife as acting... irritable, not wanting to be touched, being put off by even the mention of sex.

If you want to fix your marriage, you need to work on meeting each other's needs and spending time together.

Doing the 180 is a very bad idea if you want to stay married. The purpose of the 180 is to give you time to fall out of love with your wife until you are ready to divorce her. Separation is also a very bad idea. The vast majority of couples who separate end up divorced. You can't fix a relationship if you are not there to fix it.

There are two books that have the map of what to do to turn this around. "Love Busters: Protect Your Marriage by Replacing Love-Busting Patterns with Love-Building Habits: Harley, Willard F. Jr. and His Needs, Her Needs: Building a Marriage That Lasts: Harley, Willard F. Jr. The idea is to read the books in the order that I posted. You need to first find out what the things are that have harmed your relationship.. the love busters. Then you both stop doing them. After that you both identify your needs and work towards meeting them. This works.

My suggestion is that you read the books first and do the work they layout for yourself. That way you learn what they have to teach. After that you sit your wife down and tell her that you are profoundly unhappy, you love her and want to stay married, but this is not working for you. Ask her to read the books and work on the marriage with you.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

this between you and Jonty is a horrible threadjack; I didn’t even know if I was on the right thread.

Daniel,
How many years total has this sexless for r virtually sexless marriage been going on?
How many years before the hernia?

My opinion is all this business about not meeting emotional needs and this and that psychobabble will get you nowhere.
A woman that wants to have sex will find a way. Your wife has zero interest and you yourself know that anything you could do to fix things on your end—— YOU’D GLADLY DO!!!!
You’ve probably tried everything, I suspect for years. A lot of issues on this board come at a man that’s having problems with a frigid wife as they would a man that’s just wanting to bang his old lady anytime he feels like it and ignores her and cares nothing for an actual emotionally satisfying relationship with her.

Their advice is a waste of time for a man that loves his wife, already dies everything and more to show her he loves her, tries to communicate with her, etc etc.

You sound like you live your wife and would walk barefooted through coals to have a loving, romantic, and yes physical relationship with her. She gives you none of that.

There is nothing wrong with getting rid of a roommate when you had a vow she’d be your wife and love and cherish you.

A woman that doesn’t want a hug, a kiss, and OH NO! Actual mutually passionate sex????
That’s not a relationship where the husband is loved and cherished, it’s one in which he is a provider of comfort and security, basically a walker and butler. 

Give it to her straight. Either she starts making an attempt to be a loving wife again or you’ll leave her alone to earn her own way and she won’t have to deal with your attitude of being “entitled To her body”. Shame on you…. Stayed with total sarcasm.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There are some men on this forum who claim they want sex because it makes them feel love and they can't feel love without sex, but then some of those same men threatened divorce or stopped helping out around the house to coerce the wife back into having sex again, and that certainly did not get them love. It got them reluctant sex. It certainly did not make their wives love them more and just built resentment. So the only conclusion to be drawn by that is that they weren't really having sex to feel loved since they further eroded love to get sex. I mean they claim to only feel love when they're having sex but I can assure you that just because the resentful wife is having sex does not make her love you again. Just the opposite. So that is why I don't believe all that nonsense men say about that.
> 
> So just be careful taking advice from those men who may be suggesting the 180 or to just stop contributing to maintaining day to day living together.
> 
> Your situation has some complexities that need to be sorted out before you can even get a clear picture. And I think you're a good enough man to see that through and wish you all the luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I deleted 2 thread jacks. If you are going to post on this thread, post directly to the OP.

The posts in one of the thread jacks were moved to @jonty30's thread. If you all want to continue that discussion, please do it there.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> I deleted 2 thread jacks. If you are going to post on this thread, post directly to the OP.
> 
> The posts in one of the thread jacks were moved to @jonty30's thread. If you all want to continue that discussion, please do it there.


I wasn't intending to jack any threads. I just respond with what I think is an appropriate to the comment made. 
Sorry.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

this between you and Jonty is a horrible threadjack; I didn’t even know if I was on the right thread.

Daniel,
How many years total has this sexless for r virtually sexless marriage been going on?
How many years before the hernia?

I suspect you’ve been trying for years with no consideration from her.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> There are some men on this forum who claim they want sex because it makes them feel love and they can't feel love without sex, but then some of those same men threatened divorce or stopped helping out around the house to coerce the wife back into having sex again, and that certainly did not get them love. It got them reluctant sex. It certainly did not make their wives love them more and just built resentment.


You misunderstand the rationale for doing these things. If I tell my partner that the sex needs to improve or I'm out the door, I'm not saying it to coerce anything. I'm saying the clearest way I can there is no partnership of "us" if my needs don't matter as much as hers.

At that point, she can do one of two things. One, she can agree we are done; then we go our separate ways. Alternatively, she can step up the sex to an acceptable level. That does not have to mean she simply endures sex. She can self-reflect, figure out how things went sideways, and be part of a solution so that satisfying sex comes from a loving place.

Clearly, if my partner continually refuses sex, she is saying her needs are superior.. if so, why would I continue to serve and support her, which is basically me saying her treatment of me is acceptable? You do not need to avoid sex to be happy, and if sex with me is so bad then you don't like me much and your expectations of me should be low.

Again the ultimatum is not to force anything. It's to say and demonstrate that sex is an existential issue for the relationship. The reason so many people are offended by this is it removes the status quo as an option going forward.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I say to tell her the facts is the right thing to do for someone you love, before doing the only option she’s left him other than a totally loveless (romantically) marriage, and then just hitting the door. I don’t think it will do squat toward improving the sex life at all. It’s just a matter of stating the facts. Zero effort to be romantically involved with one’s spouse SHOULD be a dealbreaker.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DTO said:


> You are misunderstand the rationale for doing these things. If I tell my partner that the sex needs to improve or I'm out the door, I'm not saying it to coerce anything. I'm saying the clearest way I can there is no partnership of "us" if my needs don't matter as much as hers.
> 
> Now at that point, she can do one of two things. One, she can agree to end the relationship and we both go our separate ways. Alternatively, she can pick up the sex life to an acceptable level. That does not have to mean she simply endures sex. She can choose to do some self-reflecting, figure out how things went sideways, and fix that so the sex comes from a loving place.
> 
> ...


That's what I've been saying. She may have had a bad experience, which I think is behind much of a woman's unwilling to meet her husband's sexual needs. She wants to protect herself.
I've been suggesting to recast the act and learn how to view it in a positive light, that she's showing her husband love.

If it really was a bad experience that made her not want it, as opposed to some other motivation like keeping it as some cherished memory of a past lover, it will eventually become pleasurable to her. Especially if her husband really shows love and appreciation for her for her willingness to please him.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> @Daniel Felipe,
> 
> There is a reason your wife does not want sex. The two most common reasons are
> 1) She has a physical problem that has killed her sex drive.​2) Her emotional needs have not been met for a long time and no longer feels the desire to have sex with you.​


Agree with these two being big drivers. However, another huge reason is unrealistic expectations of marriage. People aren't prepared for the "new" going away after the first few years, and that alone hurts sex a lot. On top of that our lives get busier and more complicated.

You have to be intentional at sex - treat it as your responsibility and as a marital priority. But there's a ton of people who believe responsibility is bad, having sex when you're not horny is bad, etc.

Check out the Ted Talk from the author of Mating in Captivity. Driving home the point at the end: passion waxes and wanes, spontaneity is a myth.









The secret to desire in a long-term relationship


In long-term relationships, we often expect our beloved to be both best friend and erotic partner. But as Esther Perel argues, good and committed sex draws on two conflicting needs: our need for security and our need for surprise. So how do you sustain desire? With wit and eloquence, Perel lets...




www.ted.com


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

DTO said:


> Agree with these two being big drivers. However, another huge reason is simply unrealistic expectations of marriage. People aren't prepared for the reality that after the first 2-3 years or so, the "new" goes away and that alone hurts sex a lot. On top of that our lives get busier and more complicated.
> 
> You have to be intentional at sex - work at it and treat it as your responsibility and as a marital priority. But there's a ton of people who are stuck in place where responsibility is bad, having sex when you're not horny is bad, etc.
> 
> ...


The books I suggested covers this. For a marriage to work, both spouses have to meet the other's needs. That includes the sex life.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> The books I suggested covers this. For a marriage to work, both spouses have to meet the other's needs. That includes the sex life.


I believe that marriage is the ultimate representation of service to another person. 
Both partners should consider each other's needs as a matter of course and a joy to see fulfilled.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> That's what I've been saying. She may have had a bad experience, which I think is behind of of a woman's unwilling to meet her husband's sexual needs. She wants to protect herself.
> I've been suggesting to recast the act and learn how to view it in a positive light, that she's showing her husband love.
> 
> If it really was a bad experience that made her not want it, as opposed to some other motivation like keeping it as some cherished memory of a past lover, it will eventually become pleasurable to her. Especially if her husband really shows love and appreciation for her for her willingness to please him.


Right but she has to actually do the work. And part of that work is actually having sex with your spouse.

We all agree that no sex is not okay. But just some sex is not okay either. Sex has to be an integral part of married life. It needs to be a priority - a constant. And if it's not, often there needs to be consequences since just talking about it doesn't solve the problem.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> I wasn't intending to jack any threads. I just respond with what I think is an appropriate to the comment made.
> Sorry.


It was a good discussion between the two of you. That's why I moved it instead of just dealing it. You can carry it on over there.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> I believe that marriage is the ultimate representation of service to another person.
> Both partners should consider each other's needs as a matter of course and a joy to see fulfilled.


Yes, but my point is sex is often viewed by the refusing partner as not subject to this give and take, the consideration of the other. The mindset is "sex is different" and no book, talk, etc. will break through that selfishness. Sometimes you have to lay down an ultimatum and let the chips fall where they may.

ETA: In my opinion, if sex is an issue one is willing to end the marriage over, then your best course of action is to issue that ultimatum sooner rather than later and move on decisively if your spouse doesn't cooperate. If things aren't improving quickly, they aren't likely to - ever.

I learned the hard way. With my XW, I stuck it out for years and nothing improved. In fact, all my complaining did (I realized in retrospect) is let her know that she needed an exit plan because she never intended to up her game.

By contrast, when my ex-GF of a few years ago (I wrote about it back then) acted shady, I acted decisively. It was straight "hey I'm not happy", to "this is a real problem; if you're done then say so - I'll give you time to make a plan" (she was living with me at this time).

From there it went to the ultimatum and she was gone a month later. It sounds harsh but there's no reason to draw it out. And at the end of the day I learned straight from her that she never intended to change so I'm glad I wrapped it up quick. And I will continue to do so in the future.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OP, your willingness to continue to allow your wife to be comfortable, while she provides little to no comfort to you, causes you to resent her for doing so, and you to resent yourself for allowing it to continue. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

jonty30 said:


> Women over value their power within the relationship. A man can always opt out of the marriage bed altogether, if she's not willing to meet his needs where he needs them met. If he opts out of the marriage bed, what is his motivation to meeting her needs?
> That's one reason why women really hate porn, because it has undercut their bargaining power. Not that sex should be a contest of wills between the two.


You are really twisted.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> this between you and Jonty is a horrible threadjack; I didn’t even know if I was on the right thread.
> 
> Daniel,
> How many years total has this sexless for r virtually sexless marriage been going on?
> ...


Hi
Well for sure since 2012. This was our first “upsetting” conversation about it. 
But has has been going on before 
It was not active before the hernia. How many I am not clear 
It’s been a real issue for me (which becomes us) since about 2013

I hate to use the words “no consideration from her”. I am not angry at her but I am very frustrated with the situation. I may get to the point where I am angry with her (I hope
Not). 

Right now it’s just frustrating. I know she may have health issues with the hernia. I believe that. And I don’t want to take anything away from that. 

I guess my frustration is two fold. 1) no intimacy 2) talking about is just causes a fight. If I had some issues (and I know we are all different in handling things) and I knew her sex drive was more intense than mine I would have a conversation. At least explaining that I understand it or that I am trying or talking it out. 
I feel abandoned not only from an into act/ husband partner but also as a friend who can help you understand 
There are some posts that may seem harsh and very ultimatumlike. I am not there and I cannot see myself getting to that point. But I can see how people can get to this point. It is frustrating. And very hurtful if you are on my side of things (I am not downplaying my wife’s aide ). But if we cannot talk about it so that we can clearly understand it and decide what to do as a couple or individuals. We are in real trouble. I think if my wife were to tell me I don’t think I can have sex anymore because of my health or I cannot have sex anymore with you because I am not attracted to you anymore… those are two different conversations. 

Either one an ultimatum would not work. Not do I want to present one in my situation. All I am saying is that some people both men and women can easily reach this point if conversation and communication falls apart

I do like all the feedback. It is tough reading through them but it is helping me understand 1-this is not an easy thing
2-many out there have been or are in the same situation
3-there is not an clear solution


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Hi
> Well for sure since 2012. This was our first “upsetting” conversation about it.
> But has has been going on before
> It was not active before the hernia. How many I am not clear
> ...


In my opinion, I would let the wife know that you miss her touch and her love. You understand that she may not be able to perform as she might have been able to. That's ok.
You are willing figure out what she can do, because you miss her and love her. Anything that she can do, you would love her for it. 

It sounds like to me that she's not making the attempt to figure out how to love you. It's understandable that she might not be able to do the things she used to do, but she should be making the attempt to do somethings until she can be healed. For me, if my wife was not able to perform sexually because of a health condition, that would be ok. As long as she put forth effort as she was able to. It's easy to become self-centred when you're not your best. But it hurts the spouse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> Women over value their power within the relationship. A man can always opt out of the marriage bed altogether, if she's not willing to meet his needs where he needs them met. If he opts out of the marriage bed, what is his motivation to meeting her needs?





jonty30 said:


> I'm just a truth-teller.
> 
> Most women here have basically stated they have all the power to decide how to love their husbands and he must submit to their will or he doesn't even get the little he gets.


Not one woman here has stated, or implied, that women have all the power.... You are twisting what is being said. And by doing so you are giving the OP some very bad feedback.



jonty30 said:


> When a husband has a way out of that box, it's a threat to a woman.


LOL... women know that men can leave their marriage any time they want just like women can.

You are so off the mark. It is true that some women withhold sex in marriage. It's also true that about the same number of men do as well. It's not unusual at all for a man to refuse sex with his wife... even for years. The difference is that men openly talk about it but women are usually afraid to bring it up. Why? Because no matter what it's considered by society to be the woman's fault. If a wife refuses sex, it's her fault (largely of course). If a husband refuses sex, well it's clearly his wife's fault.. she must be fat & ugly, or a witch, or something awful because we all know that men would never turn down sex, right?

I was in a marriage in which my husband refused to have sex for 8 years. We often have women who have posted here on TAM whose husbands refuse them sex as a normal course, often for years. You really need to get over your pity party about women are evil creatures who control a marriage with sex.

Here's a thread that has info about women in sexless marriages and what to do about it. Take a look.

The Sex Starved Wife | Talk About Marriage


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Hi
> Well for sure since 2012. This was our first “upsetting” conversation about it.
> But has has been going on before
> It was not active before the hernia. How many I am not clear
> ...





> *My concern I guess was that when we first started having discussions about lack of sex it was all related to me. What I was not doing etc;*


You still haven't told us what your wife thinks you weren't doing...  Women don't just stop having sex with their husbands if there isn't a problem of some kind...


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

So she doesn’t intend to have sex with you but she also doesn’t want to provide you with other ways to have sex? There are many ways to provide satisfaction to a man. So if she can’t do penetration pick something else to make him happy.
and if she doesn’t want to - you have your answer - she never intends to make you happy… and that’s should be it.
I guarantee you if a hot young guy was flirting with her she would want to.

and why are you rewarding her by doing all these things for her? Let her do things herself. You are sending a message to her that says when she makes less effort for you - you do more for her. Do you see how backwards that is?

nine years of no sex? You need to know where your boundary is… when you’ll end it so you can find a gal that will love you in every way you deserve.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Not one woman here has stated, or implied, that women have all the power.... You are twisting what is being said. And by doing so you are giving the OP some very bad feedback.
> 
> 
> LOL... women know that men can leave their marriage any time they want just like women can.
> ...


I disagree that there’s just as many men withholding sex in a marriage than women.

In fact I don’t even think the ratio is close.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> It sounds like to me that she's not making the attempt to figure out how to love you. It's understandable that she might not be able to do the things she used to do, but she should be making the attempt to do somethings until she can be healed. For me, if my wife was not able to perform sexually because of a health condition, that would be ok. As long as she put forth effort as she was able to. It's easy to become self-centred when you're not your best. But it hurts the spouse.


^THIS. My partner struggles with loving me how I need to be loved and takes that I do that for her for granted.

Sex is only facet of marriage where it’s acceptable to force your partner into a double-bind which is “you’re not getting it from me and don’t you dare go elsewhere.” 

While I’m not fan of transactional relationships, but there is something to be said for mirroring your partner. Withholding stuff your partner’s wants/expects out of spite usually makes things worse. But I will say it is perfectly acceptable to hoist your partner up on their own petard. Specially pointing double-standards or double-binds they find acceptable.

OTOH, I get it. Low hormones, pain, etc turn it into an avoidance game but at some point you have to realize your sexual issues don’t exist in a vacuum. But which is worse: not knowing (or working to find out) how to love your partner how they need to be loved or knowing and just not doing it?

Marriage is like a lot of other binding legal agreements in that there is always two facets in balance: customer satisfaction and contract enforcement. The mindset should be the customer satisfaction is so high, you don’t really think about the contract. If my contractor or cell phone company is doing a bang up job, I don’t think about the contract. However, if they stop meeting their obligations, one could quickly go to the contract and find a way out or weaponize it. The marriage contract doesn’t include sex (but is implied) but if you get it somewhere else you’re in breach. 

For the OP, i think she sees you as more of a family member and she loves you but it is primarily familial love. This is long thread but what about marriage counseling? In these situations, it takes a third party to have one spouse understand the impacts of what this is doing to you. Like point blank they would ask her what you’re supposed to do and point out the damage of the double binds and double standards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't quite understand why men want to jump through endless loops to get duty sex. I did that. In hindsight, it was the most humiliating time of my life. Never again.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> So she doesn’t intend to have sex with you but she also doesn’t want to provide you with other ways to have sex? There are many ways to provide satisfaction to a man. So if she can’t do penetration pick something else to make him happy.
> and if she doesn’t want to - you have your answer - she never intends to make you happy… and that’s should be it.



OP, have you asked her about doing sex acts together outside of those that possibility cause her discomfort (piv)? Did she say no to those as well? 


On a related note, someone suggested asking her how she imagines your sex life will look like after the mesh issue is dealt with. I think that would just cause you a world of hurt in the future, because that question gives her the ultimate setup to move the goal posts again, pretty much indefinitely.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm curious as to how she can exercise so vigorously and regularly.

OP says the lack of sex predates the hernia.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> thank you


The first 2 books opened my eyes to issues i had. I made changes i needed to and became the leader in my family instead of the beta dad that just goes along with it all. I started speaking my mind instead of internalizing anger and building resentment. I started communicating(good things and bad). 

Sex life went from 3x month to usually daily. Im 49 she 53. My wife also feared if we have sex too much i would get bored with her and want someone else. (She had ****ty serial cheating ex in 1st marriage) I have heard some of the same lines...my wife had hystorectomy at 42? and takes HRT so she is very GTG in the sex category. Hell we cant gardly go deer hunting together or it is on! 

I'll take deer blind sex for $100 Alex.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Well that is exactly what I am worried about. If you "grow some big balls" and set an ultimatum....say she is willing to have sex....does it feel right; does she really love me...i dont know.
> This is one of the things I stuggle with
> I think I have to either decide on a divorce because if she comes back and says "lets have sex and fix this" I dont think either one of us will feel any better
> Also I am worried that a big part may be her health,,,If health gets addressed and things stay the same I may have to follow through.


She does not want to fix this. She could have been taking care of your needs in other ways all along if she had problems with pain.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

9 yrs. 
in a sexless marriage and STILL thinking the problem might be pain or whatever.
She won’t go to the doctor and fix herself so she can hold on to her excuse not to have sex.

meanwhile, women all over the world are having sex with strangers for money, screwing around with their neighbor, giving blow jobs to house guests….. etc.

You’re in a sexless marriage because you allow it OP.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

aaarghdub said:


> ^THIS. My partner struggles with loving me how I need to be loved and takes that I do that for her for granted.
> 
> Sex is only facet of marriage where it’s acceptable to force your partner into a double-bind which is “you’re not getting it from me and don’t you dare go elsewhere.”
> 
> ...


It shouldn't be an issue of transaction. The norm should be that it is just something that both spouses do for each other.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> I disagree that there’s just as many men withholding sex in a marriage than women.
> 
> In fact I don’t even think the ratio is close.


The main reason why most good men will withhold sex is because they have gotten used to being told no innumerous times and she's not going to give him much more than starfish sex. That's his experience and it's a turnoff.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> OP, your willingness to continue to allow your wife to be comfortable, while she provides little to no comfort to you, causes you to resent her for doing so, and you to resent yourself for allowing it to continue.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk





In Absentia said:


> You still haven't told us what your wife thinks you weren't doing...  Women don't just stop having sex with their husbands if there isn't a problem of some kind...


sorry. She said that I was not helping around the house and she was doing everything. She was exhausted from doing everything. I did not think I was letting her do everything but what we did was I took on roles she dislikes (even though I was doing most of them). I now do the cooking (I enjoy it so it does not bother me). The laundry I do as I am doing something (the laundry does not bother me as I do it as I am making a meal; or heading out to walk the dog). I fold the clothes while watching show or listening to the radio. At the moment I would me doing more of the stuff around the house (I believe my wife would agree on that statement)
So I’m a nutshell I was told I was not doing enough. I though I was. 

she had also said we were not getting a long. I would agree with that. She said she could not have sex with me because wefought. We fought because we did not have any intimacy.
(my opinion)

we get along much better now so long a sex is not talked about. If sex is brought up it is a problem

maybe there is more she is not telling me. I have discussed with her the issue of me “fixing” things that bothered her so she would not be so tired. Now she has health issues

She mentioned we would have on specific night this week and then that night she said she could not. I don’t argue anymore because it’s not a surprise. (She was angry at someone)

I love her to death but I do feel as if the goal
Posts keep moving. What sad is that if this continues my frustration will lead to resentment (someone had mentioned this). Which will lead to (I believe ) a separation. 

I think I have triedand tried. I have made structural changes (meaning they are forever) that allows me to make all the meals and her not to make any (which I don’t mind)

but if I don’t know what else I can do and I have triedfixing what I can I am at a loss

a friend suggested she may be depressed. I don’t wake her up in the mornings so she can sleep but she can easily sleep until 1200. She goes to bed really late.

her choices in the last few years have made it so that by default I am pretty much doing most of the work (it does not bother me as it needs to get done). What bothers me is it could not have been the workload as I have taken most of it on)

She also said my breath smelled. We eat (all of us)!salmon at home once a week including my wife. She said my breath smelled of salmon
So what I did was reduce eating the salmon and would brush and floss my teeth after. 
she agreed my breath imporoved. (I thought to myself…”is this really what I need to be putting up with”

the only think I really know that I did take on more stuff es house work. Which I did. 
I don’t mind it but it is quite a bit
I do work full time (I have my own business that gives me a lot of flexibility); we have rental properties which I manage (I though she wanted to manage them).
I don’t want to make it sound like she does not do anything. She does but the work load is tilted to my side. In my opinion the initial complaints of having too much have been taken care of unless there are others.

over the years I have been taking care more of my health and physique. So if a complaint was in this area I think I worked on this as well

personally I think she has lost interest in sex with me or just sex or has fallen out of love with me. Or her health has turned that switch off.
Talking about it makes it way worse


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My suspicion is there are some men and some women whose hormones are off and just cannot be turned on to want sex. And if you’re not wanting it, doing it is really something they just don’t want to do. I hate it for those people. I think a lot of those people don’t want to lose their spouses so they keep them strung along for years not telling them there’s zero chance they’ll ever want sex again, and perhaps even like their spouse. But if they loved them, they’d tell them the truth. Some actually do, and the spouse wanting sex just stays abd is unhappy.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> sorry. She said that I was not helping around the house and she was doing everything. She was exhausted from doing everything. I did not think I was letting her do everything but what we did was I took on roles she dislikes (even though I was doing most of them). I now do the cooking (I enjoy it so it does not bother me). The laundry I do as I am doing something (the laundry does not bother me as I do it as I am making a meal; or heading out to walk the dog). I fold the clothes while watching show or listening to the radio. At the moment I would me doing more of the stuff around the house (I believe my wife would agree on that statement)
> So I’m a nutshell I was told I was not doing enough. I though I was.
> 
> she had also said we were not getting a long. I would agree with that. She said she could not have sex with me because wefought. We fought because we did not have any intimacy.
> ...


If she was interested in fixing this, she would. 

Even if she doesn't want to have sex, she would be doing other things to indicate that she still has an interest in you, like touching you or putting herself in a position where you can touch her.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> sorry. She said that I was not helping around the house and she was doing everything. She was exhausted from doing everything. I did not think I was letting her do everything but what we did was I took on roles she dislikes (even though I was doing most of them). I now do the cooking (I enjoy it so it does not bother me). The laundry I do as I am doing something (the laundry does not bother me as I do it as I am making a meal; or heading out to walk the dog). I fold the clothes while watching show or listening to the radio. At the moment I would me doing more of the stuff around the house (I believe my wife would agree on that statement)
> So I’m a nutshell I was told I was not doing enough. I though I was.
> 
> she had also said we were not getting a long. I would agree with that. She said she could not have sex with me because wefought. We fought because we did not have any intimacy.
> ...


Your wife is not ever going to change. Sleeps until noon? Lol, you’d have a hard time replacing a woman that sleeps until noon, is unhappy all the time, and has zero interest in intimacy if any kind.
Dude, you’d have a better relationship with a prison woman that you got a few conjugal visits a year with. Damn.
there’s just no reason for you to live like that with billions of women on the planet.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Daniel Felipe said:


> sorry. She said that I was not helping around the house and she was doing everything. She was exhausted from doing everything. I did not think I was letting her do everything but what we did was I took on roles she dislikes (even though I was doing most of them). I now do the cooking (I enjoy it so it does not bother me). The laundry I do as I am doing something (the laundry does not bother me as I do it as I am making a meal; or heading out to walk the dog). I fold the clothes while watching show or listening to the radio. At the moment I would me doing more of the stuff around the house (I believe my wife would agree on that statement)
> So I’m a nutshell I was told I was not doing enough. I though I was.
> 
> she had also said we were not getting a long. I would agree with that. She said she could not have sex with me because wefought. We fought because we did not have any intimacy.
> ...


So, from what you've written -- it is ONE excuse after another. She complains about something as the reason you don't have sex, and when you do that and remove THAT particular excuse, she moves on to a different thing.
Not enough chores, not getting along, your breath, etc. -- just one thing after another. She FINALLY hit on an excuse that YOU can't fix -- HER health, so now she feels all set -- you can't solve that one ever, so she doesn't have to worry anymore.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BIL310 said:


> I disagree that there’s just as many men withholding sex in a marriage than women.
> 
> In fact I don’t even think the ratio is close.


Please share your research on this with us. Antidotal stories don't count.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> My suspicion is there are some men and some women whose hormones are off and just cannot be turned on to want sex. And if you’re not wanting it, doing it is really something they just don’t want to do. I hate it for those people. I think a lot of those people don’t want to lose their spouses so they keep them strung along for years not telling them there’s zero chance they’ll ever want sex again, and perhaps even like their spouse. But if they loved them, they’d tell them the truth. Some actually do, and the spouse wanting sex just stays abd is unhappy.


I agree with you thank you. I hope this is not the case. But I know it could possibly be.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

EleGirl said:


> Please share your research on this with us. Antidotal stories don't count.


Just trying to add some humour onto this serious conversation
Ted Bundy and Peggy Bundy (married with children). I did not like this show but he withheld sex from peggy from the episode I remember.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> So, from what you've written -- it is ONE excuse after another. She complains about something as the reason you don't have sex, and when you do that and remove THAT particular excuse, she moves on to a different thing.
> Not enough chores, not getting along, your breath, etc. -- just one thing after another. She FINALLY hit on an excuse that YOU can't fix -- HER health, so now she feels all set -- you can't solve that one ever, so she doesn't have to worry anymore.


I feel this way. I hope it’s not true that is why I try and talk about it. But for me an ultimatum won’t help. It would just make her feel worse and I do t think I would feel good about myself 
I would like to have a conversation but I think she is not ready (I think)


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> If she was interested in fixing this, she would.
> 
> Even if she doesn't want to have sex, she would be doing other things to indicate that she still has an interest in you, like touching you or putting herself in a position where you can touch her.


I think she tries but is worried it may lead to sex or a sex conversation so she does not.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I feel this way. I hope it’s not true that is why I try and talk about it. But for me an ultimatum won’t help. It would just make her feel worse and I do t think I would feel good about myself
> I would like to have a conversation but I think she is not ready (I think)


I would tell her straight that you'd like to talk to her about it in the next couple of days, so she can think about her answers.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Daniel Felipe said:


> I think she tries but is worried it may lead to sex or a sex conversation so she does not.


Any attempt on her part to try, should be welcomed by you. It may cause her to be confident to try farther.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> sorry. She said that I was not helping around the house and she was doing everything. She was exhausted from doing everything. I did not think I was letting her do everything but what we did was I took on roles she dislikes (even though I was doing most of them). I now do the cooking (I enjoy it so it does not bother me). The laundry I do as I am doing something (the laundry does not bother me as I do it as I am making a meal; or heading out to walk the dog). I fold the clothes while watching show or listening to the radio. At the moment I would me doing more of the stuff around the house (I believe my wife would agree on that statement)
> So I’m a nutshell I was told I was not doing enough. I though I was.
> 
> she had also said we were not getting a long. I would agree with that. She said she could not have sex with me because wefought. We fought because we did not have any intimacy.
> ...


Why continue with the effort?

Again, you resent her for moving the goalposts and yourself for continuing. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)




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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

Perhaps you should give some serious consideration to parting ways.

Quietly speak to a lawyer to see what divorce would look like for you. This allows you to make a more informed decision on how to move forward.

You have been very patient. Without her involvement or interest in working with you, you could spend the rest of your life waiting for her to change her mind.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BIL310 said:


> I disagree that there’s just as many men withholding sex in a marriage than women.
> 
> In fact I don’t even think the ratio is close.


You have to reword it a little, and than I think it could be true. A lot of men reach a point they can't have sex -- but they also often screw around with other women just for variety. I never withheld sex in my dating relationships at all, but I had one I was in love with who did and wouldn't tell me why until 10 years later after he'd had therapy. Guys withhold sex if they're banging someone else or have ED, most typically. Sometimes it's because they promised their new affair partner they weren't still having sex with their wife or SO, although my experience is they'll just lie and say that but still have sex anywhere they can still get it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I don't quite understand why men want to jump through endless loops to get duty sex. I did that. In hindsight, it was the most humiliating time of my life. Never again.


Thank you. That is the reaction of a healthy person.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

jonty30 said:


> I would tell her straight that you'd like to talk to her about it in the next couple of days, so she can think about her answers.


Thanks. I may do that


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Daniel Felipe said:


> *Just trying to add some humour onto this serious conversation*
> Ted Bundy and Peggy Bundy (married with children). I did not like this show but he withheld sex from peggy from the episode I remember.


You missed that by like 100 football fields. Ted Bundy was a serial killer. It was Al Bundy and Pegg.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> Why continue with the effort?
> 
> Again, you resent her for moving the goalposts and yourself for continuing.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I guess I continue to make sure I have covered all bases and feel good about knowing I tried and gave it everything that I can think of. I may be getting to the end and have reached out to see what others have done.
At the end of the day I have to be comfortable with my decision whether I stay or go. 
The only way I will be comfortable with a separation/ divorce is if I have tried everything. The downside is there will be no ultimatum.
I appreciate it


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> You missed that by like 100 football fields. Ted Bundy was a serial killer. It was Al Bundy and Pegg.


Sorry....Al Bundy


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

This thread keeps bringing an old thread back to my mind. I recommend you read the opening post here: 








Getting ready to drop the news


I've done a lot of reading in the forums over the past few months on the recommendation of a friend. It is so helpful to read about others' experiences, even though so much of it is so sad and/or tragic. I guess I'm posting because I'm having second thoughts? I was so sure. My wife and I are...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Then follow this link to see what was really going on with his wife. I wonder if something similar is going on with your wife.








Getting ready to drop the news


Cromer has requested that his thread be closed, and I am honoring that request. He has chosen to do so because of speculation about what has happened that hasn't actually happened, and that he had come here to get ideas about how to smoothly execute the divorce. Via PM: "As for my situation...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> You missed that by like 100 football fields. Ted Bundy was a serial killer. It was Al Bundy and Pegg.


🤣


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> This thread keeps bringing an old thread back to my mind. I recommend you read the opening post here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing this post. This does sound familiar to me from the perspective of no intimacy. I would be susipcious of an affair or extra curricular activities but I dont think so. My wife does not really leave the house. Honestly I think intimacy is of no interest at all. Maybe I am naive but when I initially thought there may be an affair I dont see where. She does not go away; we do do things together; I don't see her hiding anything ie secret messages / emails etc. Maybe I am totally naive on this but I think you would have to find time away from the house of which I dont see.
I am more concerned about self isolation and depression and not addressing it than an affair. And honestly if an affair was present that would really help me make a decision. That is why this is so hard.

i do relate to him on the first post when he has been in a sexless marriage for over 10 years and is about to drop the bomb. I can see this happening in my life.

Thank you for sharing. I really appreciate it. It helps me a lot knowing that others have made difficult situations. 
Thank you again
Carlos


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Daniel Felipe said:


> Thank you for sharing this post. This does sound familiar to me from the perspective of no intimacy. I would be susipcious of an affair or extra curricular activities but I dont think so. My wife does not really leave the house. Honestly I think intimacy is of no interest at all. Maybe I am naive but when I initially thought there may be an affair I dont see where. She does not go away; we do do things together; I don't see her hiding anything ie secret messages / emails etc. Maybe I am totally naive on this but I think you would have to find time away from the house of which I dont see.
> I am more concerned about self isolation and depression and not addressing it than an affair. And honestly if an affair was present that would really help me make a decision. That is why this is so hard.
> 
> i do relate to him on the first post when he has been in a sexless marriage for over 10 years and is about to drop the bomb. I can see this happening in my life.
> ...


@Cromer's wife was not having an affair. She had an affair, IIRC, 8-10 years earlier. This set off a number of events that caused her to stop having sex with him. He didn't find out until long after it had occurred. Your wife may be find right now, but what she was doing when she stopped having sex with you may have been related to an affair way back then.

There have been numerous people who have found out that problems in their marriage were stemming from an affair that happened in the past, but had remained hidden. Consider this as a possibility.


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

Cynthia said:


> @Cromer's wife was not having an affair. She had an affair, IIRC, 8-10 years earlier. This set off a number of events that caused her to stop having sex with him. He didn't find out until long after it had occurred. Your wife may be find right now, but what she was doing when she stopped having sex with you may have been related to an affair way back then.
> 
> There have been numerous people who have found out that problems in their marriage were stemming from an affair that happened in the past, but had remained hidden. Consider this as a possibility.


Understood thank you. I guess there is a possibility. I will have to think through it. Appreciate you clarifying it
Thank you


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## Daniel Felipe (Oct 21, 2021)

aaarghdub said:


> ^THIS. My partner struggles with loving me how I need to be loved and takes that I do that for her for granted.
> 
> Sex is only facet of marriage where it’s acceptable to force your partner into a double-bind which is “you’re not getting it from me and don’t you dare go elsewhere.”
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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