# Emotional Affairs vs Close Friendships



## FortheRecord (Mar 1, 2017)

The main question is whether a relationship between 2 or more females can become an emotional affair, when the line is crossed, how you recognize it and what to do about it?

The full story is in a long thread in the private members forum but the short version is as follows.
My wife of almost 25 years was diagnosed with HPV (one of the likely STI strains) a few months ago and we're trying to work through the related implications. During the early aftermath, I went a little nuts and investigated pretty much her every electronic record I had access to for the past 15 years. Emails, browsing histories, text messages, instant messengers, etc... Through that, I found nothing pointing to an affair, which made me feel a great deal better. I did explain all of the steps I took to her after I was done and we're in counseling now trying to work this stuff out.

The thing is, the only odd emails, texts and communications I found during this exercise were really between my wife and her closest female friends. Certainly not of a sexual nature but some of the content would be probably rise to the level of an emotional affair if she were having those exchanges with a man. My wife has always had deep friendships and she has always shared details with me that were appropriate or that affected us and thus me. This situation is not dramatically different but, with all of the other stuff going on, I admit that I'm bothered.

One of her very close friends is in counseling after having what could be called an emotional affair with a male mentor/teacher. She and her husband are working through it but she had to make some significant changes in her work/academic life and my wife has been encouraging her through that process. This other woman had stopped talking to her husband, stopped being intimate, stopped participating in church activities,(which was big deal for them) etc... My wife, along with another of their friends, encouraged her to seek reconciliation, personal counseling, re-establish intimacy, those sorts of things. The tricky thing here is that this other woman is a close friend and mentor to my wife academically... and while my wife was encouraging her to seek reconciliation, this other woman was counseling my wife to seek closer relationships with the folks that captivated this other woman. 

So the only questionable issues I found during that investigation were back and forth notes and texts about this stuff. Things that seem out of alignment with our discussed family goals, some discussions about how to arrange meetings and trips, encouragement to keep things from me to avoid difficult conversations, etc... 
I would like think I'm open minded and supportive of my wife in most things but I don't like the idea that she's taking advice and mentoring with someone who is counseling her away from marital intimacy and honest communication. Further, I'm noticing that she's changing her opinions on certain things to align with this other woman's point of view where we've been in agreement on those topics for years... it could certainly be accounted for by exposure to new ideas and reevaluating previously held opinions, and I'm a big fan of that, but it just aligns directly with this other woman's beliefs and frankly with her mentor's beliefs. 
One example quick example, of which there are several, is the religious concept of purgatory. The pros and cons of the concept are immaterial, the key is that we are not catholic and we've discussed this concept in the past intellectually and were always on the same page. This other woman has been strongly investigating catholic/orthodox religious practices lately, one of the sources of dispute with her baptist deacon husband, because her academic mentor is strongly Greek orthodox and recently my wife became extremely upset when I repeated a previously agreed to opinion on purgatory which disagreed with concept. 
Belief in purgatory is not important, neither is the change in position on the concept, the issue is that she got upset. We talk about this kind of stuff all the time in a respectful manner, this wasn't respectful, it was defensive. 

So, to make a long question, short...
My wife is hanging out with a woman who is encouraging her to hide things from her husband, strongly influencing her away from beliefs she/they've held for decades, pulling her away from habits of open discussion and critical examination and pushing her down a path that got the other woman in serious marital trouble with her own husband. 
Is that an emotional affair or just normal personal growth via a strong friendship?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

No matter what she's not a friend to your marriage from what you've posted. Look at the results of her marriage. 

That should clue you in.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't see anything in what you describe here that sounds like an emotional affair.

It does sound like the one woman is encouraging your wife to not talk to you about some things.

But I am also find it a bit disturbing that you say that you and your wife have already agreed up some things, like the topic of purgatory and so her possibly having a different opinion now is somehow against your marriage. I can see why she might not want to talk to you about such things.

You cannot control your wife's mind. She ever every right to freedom of thought, freedom to explore and question even her own belief system.


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## FortheRecord (Mar 1, 2017)

Marc878 said:


> No matter what she's not a friend to your marriage from what you've posted. Look at the results of her marriage.
> 
> That should clue you in.


I'm clued in and I've discussed a lot of this with my wife already. She is, I believe, sincerely trying to help this other woman and my wife recognizes the risks but she is also heavily engaged with this woman in academic study on various topics in groups of various sizes as well as individual counseling. I heavily doubt that there's any sexual component here because one of the topics that has come up recently is pure marital love through 'marital celibacy' which, to me, is an oxymoron and as much of an anathema to me as the concept of 'open marriage'.... though I fully realize that there are couples that make both of those concepts work.


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## FortheRecord (Mar 1, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I don't see anything in what you describe here that sounds like an emotional affair.
> 
> It does sound like the one woman is encouraging your wife to not talk to you about some things.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I hear you and I realize how what I said could be interpreted as I wrote it but I'm trying to authentic. So, I don't believe I ever try to control my wife's thoughts any more than she tries to control mine... and I recognize that beliefs, positions and opinions can, do and should change over time... but if you had a long term intimate relationship with someone where there were a number of shared beliefs and you had habit of discussing such things in detail and suddenly, your partner had shifted several beliefs to be in line with someone else and didn't even want to discuss it with you, would that not at least bother you? 
For the record, I enjoy those types of discussions and this could be my wife avoiding conflict with me even where I believe I'm being open to the concepts. Again, Purgatory was just an example that came to mind because it was the most recent shift that surprised me.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> I don't see anything in what you describe here that sounds like an emotional affair.
> 
> It does sound like the one woman is encouraging your wife to not talk to you about some things.
> 
> ...


 If the topics that she changed her opinion on are guidelines in their agreement to marry ( over the top example: Changing from a christian to a satanist) it most certainly could be "against the marriage". There are a million things that could make the marriage untenable by one of them changing their opinions or beliefs. It doesn't necessarily make either of them wrong, but it could make the marriage end.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

This should be brought up and discussed at your MC sessions. I do not see this as an emotional affair as much as your wife being easily manipulated. She's a follower. In this instance she is being influenced by someone who has proven to be a bad wife. Nothing good can come of it.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

ForTheRecord,

Your W could have caught her HPV strains from another woman, so if W says she never cheated physically with another man she might be correct. 

How does your Ws body language change when she speaks with this woman?

Tamat


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> ForTheRecord,
> 
> Your W could have caught her HPV strains from another woman, so if W says she never cheated


That's the first thing that jumped into my mind when I read the first post in this thread. The link to FTRs other thread seemed obvious. Could be coincidence, but definitely worth looking into.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@FortheRecord
What was her quote to you about who had"touched her privates"? Did she say NO MAN or NO ONE?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

FortheRecord said:


> The main question is whether a relationship between 2 or more females can become an emotional affair, when the line is crossed, how you recognize it and what to do about it?
> 
> The full story is in a long thread in the private members forum but the short version is as follows.
> My wife of almost 25 years was diagnosed with HPV (one of the likely STI strains) a few months ago and we're trying to work through the related implications. During the early aftermath, I went a little nuts and investigated pretty much her every electronic record I had access to for the past 15 years. Emails, browsing histories, text messages, instant messengers, etc... Through that, I found nothing pointing to an affair, which made me feel a great deal better. I did explain all of the steps I took to her after I was done and we're in counseling now trying to work this stuff out.
> ...




My overall feeling is I am the primary relationship in my wife's life. My privacy and our marriage is really a topic between us. Though I would really not have an issue if my wife was going for advice from other female friends if the advice is to strengthen the marriage. That is key. Not her complaining about me. Also she shouldn't say anything to a friend that she would say to her when I was present. 

However I don't care if we agree on trivial topics that don't pertain to the marriage. Politics or anything that doesn't concern the marriage and morality, nope, I like a good debate as I bet you can guess. She better be prepared to make a good argument though. 

Your wife has some real issues. Over all your wife seems to be looking for all this stuff from everyone but you. People like your wife seem to be so hard to be married to. They are toxic.

Bring it up in your counseling.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think its possible to have an emotional affair with someone of either gender. 

One of the motivations for an emotional affair is someone feeling that they can't be open and honest with their partner. It can be other things as well, including just wanting attention. 

No matter how bad things are in a marriage, I think its best to always be willing to listen to what your partner is saying - and to try to understand their point of view, even if you don't agree with it.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

I've followed a lot of your other thread. Your wife generally seems to have the type of personality that needs attention and approval from others, including you. This is why she is overly affectionate with you. While endearing to you and everyone else that knows her, this is likely to eventually be toxic to the marriage relationship. She reminds me a lot of my ex.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

What was her relationship with her father like?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

This is very relevant to your other thread. I think it fills in the gaps.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

FortheRecord said:


> Yeah, I hear you and I realize how what I said could be interpreted as I wrote it but I'm trying to authentic. So, I don't believe I ever try to control my wife's thoughts any more than she tries to control mine... and I recognize that beliefs, positions and opinions can, do and should change over time... but if you had a long term intimate relationship with someone where there were a number of shared beliefs and you had habit of discussing such things in detail and suddenly, your partner had shifted several beliefs to be in line with someone else and didn't even want to discuss it with you, would that not at least bother you?
> 
> For the record, I enjoy those types of discussions and this could be my wife avoiding conflict with me even where I believe I'm being open to the concepts. Again, Purgatory was just an example that came to mind because it was the most recent shift that surprised me.


I understand that having her change her opinion on things and not wanting to discuss it with you would be upsetting. It's more the not wanting to talk with y you. Shoot if she did, she might even convince you of her new point of view. It sounds like she just wants you to accept that she has changed her point of view and you approach to this feels, to her, of you trying to argue with her about it or bring her back to the original point of view. 

I also find it a bit odd that you are wondering about these friendships being emotional affairs.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> If the topics that she changed her opinion on are guidelines in their agreement to marry ( over the top example: Changing from a christian to a satanist) it most certainly could be "against the marriage". There are a million things that could make the marriage untenable by one of them changing their opinions or beliefs. It doesn't necessarily make either of them wrong, but it could make the marriage end.


I agree that there are some changes that would not be acceptable at all. Of course this is personal for each individual. But the example he brought up was something that he did seem to have that big a problem with.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Was your wife aware of her very close friends affair while ongoing? How long has your wife known this friend? Is the friend a work colleague of your wife?

What do you know about this "friend" of your wife's affair?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

FortheRecord said:


> you, would that not at least bother you?
> For the record, I enjoy those types of discussions and this could be my wife avoiding conflict with me even where I believe I'm being open to the concepts. Again, Purgatory was just an example that came to mind because it was the most recent shift that surprised me.


Make sure you are secure in your knowledge and aren't reading more into the exchanges. Some people will say you are looking for ways to be mad at your wife for the STI issue. What was the actual trigger? Something was said or shared, you do not have to be explixty specific, but something was stated in these exchanges which set off your radar.

Yes, you can have an emotional affair with the same sex. See, people try to make it only about sexual gratification. Sure many lead to affairs, but some don't. I'd actually argue most do not. What they do is damage a marriage. So, your wife is being counseled to avoid talking to you about your marriage, hard topics and religion. She is also telling her to hide things from you which, your wife doesn't see hurt her mentor's marriage. She has a mentor (power) who is influencing her actions. So much so, you are now noticing a timeline in her changes of behavior. 


You need to find a way to bring up this friend in marriage counseling. This is what some here would call a toxic friend. Shortly, you will hear how you stumbled onto private conversations and this happens, which is true. Still, some of the aspects you have related are worrisome. Plus, this woman is having marital problems as well. While people do vent, there are aspects which shouldn't be done in a marriage. As they say, misery loves company and IMO cheaters do too.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Seems like manipulation in order to have a "partner in crime"... someone who won't judge her bad behavior. 

So convert...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

FortheRecord said:


> Yeah, I hear you and I realize how what I said could be interpreted as I wrote it but I'm trying to authentic. So, I don't believe I ever try to control my wife's thoughts any more than she tries to control mine... and I recognize that beliefs, positions and opinions can, do and should change over time... but if you had a long term intimate relationship with someone where there were a number of shared beliefs and you had habit of discussing such things in detail and suddenly, your partner had shifted several beliefs to be in line with someone else and didn't even want to discuss it with you, would that not at least bother you?
> For the record, I enjoy those types of discussions and this could be my wife avoiding conflict with me even where I believe I'm being open to the concepts. Again, Purgatory was just an example that came to mind because it was the most recent shift that surprised me.


You might not be controlling, but your wife's friend may well be controlling.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> You might not be controlling, but your wife's friend may well be controlling.


See, this is what I saw. FTR's reaction wasn't wrong or bad or worrisome to me.

He explained the issue was her being upset, which was new to their discussion of the same subject. 



> but if you had a long term intimate relationship with someone where there were a number of shared beliefs and you had habit of discussing such things in detail and suddenly, your partner had shifted several beliefs to be in line with someone else and didn't even want to discuss it with you, would that not at least bother you?





> recently my wife became extremely upset when I repeated a previously agreed to opinion on purgatory which disagreed with concept.
> Belief in purgatory is not important, neither is the change in position on the concept, the issue is that she got upset. We talk about this kind of stuff all the time in a respectful manner, this wasn't respectful, it was defensive.


Yes, if my wife SUDDENLY became upset about a topic we have discussed many times over, I'd have a big problem about it as well. Especially, if it is moving inline with someone in our life who is telling her to hide things from me. He has a problem with her new reaction, not her choice to change beliefs.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See, this is what I saw. FTR's reaction wasn't wrong or bad or worrisome to me.
> 
> He explained the issue was her being upset, which was new to their discussion of the same subject.
> 
> ...


And what happens when her "friend" decides that his wife believes in free love? Or in taking recreational drugs or...?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I see your wife's leanings as an indication she is not of the same mindset you are wrt marriage. That is, she is associating with this toxic person by choice. She is receptive to the messages.

If she were staunchly pro-marriage and solidly committed to fidelity, she would not find common ground with this other woman. She might force a smile when she was required to meet with her on a professional topic, but she wouldn't get friendly with someone whose belief system is repugnant to her own.

This doesn't feel at all like an EA to me.

I continue to believe your wife is not who you think she is. She may not be Jekyll/Hyde, but she has a side to her you have not known or come to grips with. She thinks differently and has a mental template of marriage different than yours, but she has kept it hidden from you.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I don't see an EA here....

But I would be profoundly disturbed that this wayward thinking wife is advising your W to keep secrets from you.......especially considering what is going on in your M at the moment.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Thor said:


> I see your wife's leanings as an indication she is not of the same mindset you are wrt marriage. That is, she is associating with this toxic person by choice. She is receptive to the messages.
> 
> If she were staunchly pro-marriage and solidly committed to fidelity, she would not find common ground with this other woman. She might force a smile when she was required to meet with her on a professional topic, but she wouldn't get friendly with someone whose belief system is repugnant to her own.
> 
> ...


Yep


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Are you saying you got all this info from your detective work and she doesn't know you know what this woman is telling her? Does she know you know the woman is having an affair? 

Sorry, I'm a little unsure of what your wife knows you know especially with regards to your current mess. Is she using this woman to discuss the possibility you think she may have had an affair for example. Have you just recently caught on to this and how long has it been going on. I want to point out that folks in long term affairs do not always talk about it over the phone etc. Just like most married folks don't talk about sex constantly over the phone. How do they address each other?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Completely agree with @Thor. Your wife is not who you think she is. And you do not see her the way she really is. You see her the way you WANT her to be, the way you THOUGHT she was when you met.

The way you've described her in both your threads, she comes across as a fragile follower with very sketchy boundaries. She seeks approval from others rather than following her own internal compass.

And it's clear that you don't really trust her which is extremely troubling since trust is the very foundation of strong marriages.

This is a tough row to keep hoeing...


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Please clarify:

Greek Othodox is mentor to wife female friend. 

Wife female friend marrried to a Bapist minister and is in a EA with someone. She is being strongly influenced by Greek Othodox religious beliefs.

Wife female friend is mentor to wife. Wife is echoing female friends new feelings and does not want to discuss with you. Female friend encouraging her in this regard.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I have a feeling there is a lot of information you are not sharing, perhaps indeed wisely. But this leaves posters who want to help frustrated. You have enough posts to PM perhaps that would help you.

I believe TAM offers the option to open a private by invitation thread. 
You have read many posters here, perhaps using that option might allow you to speak more freely. If you are interested PM a mod such as Elegirl, MattMatt or FarsideJunky.


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