# Fairness?



## Exodus (Oct 14, 2009)

I have a question or general inquiry for opinion of unbiased people so I figured this might be the best place..

Myself and my wife have been married for two years now, we have four children, One is from a previous relationship of hers whom of which I have adopted. I suppose this isnt completely relevant to the point but it saves people from asking.

I work a full time job in IT, I put in 42.5 hours per week, 170 total in a four week month. We just bought a house and moved into it roughly three weeks ago, it was always a dispute before we moved into this place on the topic of personal space. I want some.. Just a few hours, five or six on a Sunday is my request, but she feels it is unfair of me to get that free time.

I would agree with her except for the following reasons, I beg her to take her own personal time to make it fair, also so she can get away from the kids, (She is a stay at home mother) I know people need their own time.. She doesnt want to take any, but also with that doesnt want to give any.

So when we moved into this new house I was trying to give her a break and make her life easier. I cook every night, I do the dishes, I pick up the house, and start a load of laundry. This is after a full day of working, 9 to 6. I have been doing so for three weeks now and we are still having the same issues with 'fairness' of freetime, no one gets any..

I find myself being short with her, and the kids more and more frequently, being impatient(sp) with them when they dont listen, or when they are mean to their siblings (they are 4,3,2, and 1), I feel that im just collecting too much stress to manage without an outlet.

With having four kids, finding a babysitter is pretty hard when you try to factor in a reasonable budget, and due to their being four, inlaws and such are not very apt to sit.

I feel like a drone..


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Wow, 4 little ones a year apart, I'm sure they consume all of your time! I'm really surprised to hear your wife doesn't want to take any time for herself. I do agree with you that it's important to have some down time. It's also important to have some time for just the two of you but unless you have a willing sitter you trust, I know that's hard when the children are young.

One thing to keep in mind is that she is 24/7 with the kids so I'm sure when you are home, having the extra help is precious to her....she may not feel it's worth a few hours to herself in exchange for taking on a few more hours by herself...but again, I think it would be good for you both if you can get her on the same page...no clue how though, sorry!


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Exodus-

You are focusing on the wrong, thing. What you describe is a symptom of a troubled marriage. You are being too much the nice guy, and she is finding it boring. 

If you are too nice to people, unfortunately due to human nature, it can only result in one thing: an un-satisfied person who constantly pushes the boundaries and asks for more and more. It's like people who give a whingeing child anything it wants to keep it quiet. In this way, we train the child to whinge and scream whenever it wants something.

In adult relationships an additional factor creeps in. If you are too much the "nice guy" - the other person comes to see you as cheap and worthless.


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## sjm1983 (Sep 18, 2009)

This is something I only recently realized in my own life with my wife being a SAHM with a 4 and 3 year old. We also have a 10 year old who is a bit on the special needs department so he acts more like a 6 year old. 

You do go to work, pat on the back BUT you also get an escape, its not maybe the type you are looking for but you do get away from it all. I used to think that I'm being a good provider I haven't taken an *unpaid* day off in 5 years but she hasn't taken _*a*_ day off in 5 years. Her job is 24/7 its something about mothers she hears them in the middle of the night when I sleep right through it. My daughter fell out of her bed the other night, she was already flying into her room before I even could think about what happened. The stress is overwhelming, going out isn't easy you have to have someone that she trusts. Its a hard thing to start letting go especially the first few times. She probably isn't looking for the space like you are so she doesn't even want to be away. My wife wants us to do stuff together as a family not just her and I and not just me and not just her.

Small kids are very taxing and they will take a lot of your time. Give it a few years they will be in school before you know it cherish the time you have now you won't get it again. Once they start school she might have more time for herself and will understand your need and want for time by yourself. 

Put yourself in her shoes she probably missing having you around and she is dealing with little people all day no adult interactions she probably craves the time with you just so she has an adult to talk with.

What do you want to do with those couple of hours on the weekend?


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## Exodus (Oct 14, 2009)

Honestly anything, take a drive, hunt, fish, go for a walk, build a shelf, rake the yard, play a game, I have some friends that play some pencil and paper RPG, I would love to sit down with them for a few hours, just something. i really have no solid desire, just time that I don't have to deal with the entire world in my face.. Sadly at work I don't really get 'quiet' time, working IT I'm either playing the brainstorm idea with other techs, or I'm doing support with someone. so in a way, I'm stuck on a 24/7 cycle of someone requesting/relying on my knowledge be it the kids, wife, or a troubled customer.


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## sjm1983 (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm in IT as well. I know how you feel but do you know how she feels?

My wife has seen so many Dora the Explorer shows she can almost speak Spanish. But in all seriousness she probably just wants that grown up time with you and losing 6 or 7 hours a week of it is probably very upsetting. You work all day, see her for a few hours at night, then to go bed and start it all over again. She only has 2 days a week to be with her Husband before her cycle starts all over again too. She probably really wants that time with you.


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## Exodus (Oct 14, 2009)

I have a strong feeling you are spot on, its one of those situations that cant be resolved when she refuses to talk to me about it, and claims that her only care is the fairness of me being without the children. I literally have not done something without her sense December of last year, the 21st to be exact >_>. I want her to have that same time for adult interaction, but I need time without information draining interaction. I like spending time with her as well, but she refuses to take some her time which makes my request for it seem selfish


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## sjm1983 (Sep 18, 2009)

Maybe she doesn't even really know the feelings shes feeling. It doesn't have to be draining for you. Watch a movie together, play a card game. 

As for doing stuff like building a shelf, just go do it. If she comes in there and wants to talk you are still relaxing. How about asking her if inviting the friends over is okay? Make her feel included.


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## Exodus (Oct 14, 2009)

Some good ideas, Ill give them a try, see how they do and get back soon to toss in an update


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## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

Ya know, I get what you are saying. I am the worker bee, and my husband is at home with our two boys, ages 4 and 2. He loves every single minute, and is SUCH an awesome parent. But, there are days when I come home, that he just wants to run out the door. I used to fight it, because I don't do much other than work, school and my kids...but now I don't. He comes home SUCH a better adjusted person. And, he has realized that I need MY downtime here and there too, even though I am gone from the house every day. I hit the ground running when I get home, do stuff to take care of the house, cook, bedtime, i'm the one who wakes up in the middle of the night....so, i see both sides. She's gotta see that she is NOT a bad mom to take a few hours away, and she has to see that YOU are not a bad dad/husband to need some time to yourself to regroup.


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## sjm1983 (Sep 18, 2009)

I really suggest the movie thing, its great, you are together but no one is talking, you can have that quiet time. Also I would recommend something that she likes. You don't have to get something totally sappy but I would stay away from some of the "guy" films at first. Give to her first, if she wants to see a romantic comedy then do that. It can be funny for you and she will have that spot touched in her heart. Also most women I know don't like the stupid comedy type films too much. So stay away from the sophomoric comedies unless that is something she really likes. Something a bit more quiet will help you to feel relaxed too.


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## QuitaBee (Aug 11, 2009)

She should respect the fact that you need personal time to yourself. Even if she doesn't want or need any. She should respect that you do. Its just that simple. That is verrrrrryyyyy important to alot of people and to others not important at all. Some spouses have control issues they don't want to go out so they dont want you to either then they try to pull a guilt trip on oyu "spend time with the family, spend time with me"...Does she have siblings, friends?? I know the feeling and you should find a way for her to respect it, if she can't....JUST go out. Help around the house, give her some good loving. And just tell her "honey I need some "me" time, I'll be back in a couple hours"...if she gets mad...she'll just have to deal with it....I may come off as uncaring, but freedom is important to me!!!


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## QuitaBee (Aug 11, 2009)

sjm1983 said:


> I'm in IT as well. I know how you feel but do you know how she feels?
> 
> She only has 2 days a week to be with her Husband before her cycle starts all over again too. She probably really wants that time with you.


Thats very true too, when I was a SAHM (which I will NEVER DO AGAIN!!! LOL), I craved together time with my husband!! But I also just wanted "me" time. He'd be mad when he'd call midday and I'm at the movies...as long as your household work is done and your children are tooken care of there should be no issue.


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## sjm1983 (Sep 18, 2009)

I don't know, if I was your husband I would have a hard time with that too. I understand about when the work is done and the kids are taken care of then you doing something shouldn't be a problem. However I would have a problem if you went to the movies without me. If you were sitting at home watching a movie then I wouldn't really care unless it was something I wanted to see too. 

Maybe he did this, but my wife would crap a kitten if I called her up and said hey I'm gonna be home late, I finished my work for the day so I'm going to the movies. 



QuitaBee said:


> Thats very true too, when I was a SAHM (which I will NEVER DO AGAIN!!! LOL), I craved together time with my husband!! But I also just wanted "me" time. He'd be mad when he'd call midday and I'm at the movies...as long as your household work is done and your children are tooken care of there should be no issue.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Does your wife have friends that she could enjoy spending time with out of the house?

Does she trust you to watch the children without her?

I do have a problem with the basic theme that I hear saying that being a SAHM is so much harder then any other job in the world. And the problem I have with it is simple. There is a huge amount of variability in how hard the SAHM job is based on family size, age of the kids - especially the number who are in school, individual child personalities, and how much the other spouse helps out. At a glance, I sure do agree that the OP here has a wife with a tough schedule with 4 kids that young. 

Still, I do not understand how SJM describes being a mom. It paints the wife as a victim of this relentless treadmill of never ending work without a break. 

When my wife wants a break she went for a long weekned to visit friends or family. If she wanted a weekend day/night to do something I just happily took over at home. We have 3 kids. When they were little she took them to scienece museums, and playgrounds and playdates while I argued with clients about change orders on custom application projects. 

Don't get me wrong, her job had challenges - but she always had backup, and as soon as our youngest went to school, she had 7 plus hours a day where she had total control of the schedule. I am not suggesting that was all idle time, she did all the house stuff etc. Just saying if I could have switched places at that point I would have in a heartbeat. And sure, we could have switched places - we just would have had to completely revamp our lifestyle and our kids college funds would have gone empty. 

I have always thanked my wife for being such a great mother and partner. And we were lucky in that we had no special needs kids - because that does make a huge difference. 

When I read some of this stuff I guess I get confused. Do you guys think you walk in the door already in some deficit situation with your wife. Like somehow what she has been doing all day is harder / more stressful then your job so you somehow "owe" her something? And that once you are home that situation persists? 

The way I see it, I owe my wife respect, love, kindness and gratitude for what she does. And she feels the same way about me. And we both try to be fair about workload and I think for the most part we are. 




sjm1983 said:


> I don't know, if I was your husband I would have a hard time with that too. I understand about when the work is done and the kids are taken care of then you doing something shouldn't be a problem. However I would have a problem if you went to the movies without me. If you were sitting at home watching a movie then I wouldn't really care unless it was something I wanted to see too.
> 
> Maybe he did this, but my wife would crap a kitten if I called her up and said hey I'm gonna be home late, I finished my work for the day so I'm going to the movies.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> Don't get me wrong, her job had challenges - but she always had backup, and as soon as our youngest went to school, she had 7 plus hours a day where she had total control of the schedule. I am not suggesting that was all idle time, she did all the house stuff etc. Just saying if I could have switched places at that point I would have in a heartbeat.


Well, duh, yeah. Once the kids are in school, who would NOT want to be a SAHM? Those are the trophy wives--several hours a day to take care of themselves. I'd look damn hot if I had that kind of time! Wouldn't want it, though, truthfully. I love working. 

Mostly people are referencing the SAHM of small kids--and honestly, one is difficult enough, let alone 2, 3, or 4 at home. I've been employed and a SAHM, and there is no comparison at the weight of being a SAHM to young children (before school age). 

OP, Have you thought about taking 40 minutes to an hour to go for a walk or run, right after work each day? That can greatly reduce stress and make the time at home on weekends less of an issue. My running time is my "me" time. 6-7 hours on the weekend is a LOT for you to take with so many small kids at home. By spreading that time out over the week, maybe it won't feel so stressful for her and you will feel more relaxed about weekends. good luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

S359,
Of course I gave the extreme examples just to make my point. There was a period of time when we were 1/3 in school full time, then 2/3 then 3/3. So I didn't expect the "duh" comment. 

My wife gets her hair cut nice once a month. Full stop. Thats it. She colors her own hair herself. She eats healthy - and she exercises enough to stay fit. You would likely see her as annoyingly fit judging from some of your prior comments. She always did volunteer work, when the youngest went to school full time we talked about her returning to work. I told her I was 100 percent in favor of her doing whatever she wanted to. She was very honest. She said she loved her life, loved her flexible schedule and didn't feel a need to work if I was ok with that. From what I could see she made good use of her time, the kids and house and I were all very well cared for so that is what we did. Ultimately she started to question her contribution. She did - not me. 

Time passed and then over a year ago - after being a SAHM for 19 years, she took over running a small business we own. She works a LOT now. And she likes it. I am happy - but a little worried about the stress. Just don't want her to have stress related issues. 

Perhaps you should read your post again. I didn't understand why you would write: 

I'd look damn hot if I had that kind of time! Wouldn't want it, though, truthfully. I love working. 

If your job prevents you from taking good care of yourself it is not a good job. Not a healthy job. 




sisters359 said:


> Well, duh, yeah. Once the kids are in school, who would NOT want to be a SAHM? Those are the trophy wives--several hours a day to take care of themselves. I'd look damn hot if I had that kind of time! Wouldn't want it, though, truthfully. I love working.
> 
> Mostly people are referencing the SAHM of small kids--and honestly, one is difficult enough, let alone 2, 3, or 4 at home. I've been employed and a SAHM, and there is no comparison at the weight of being a SAHM to young children (before school age).
> 
> OP, Have you thought about taking 40 minutes to an hour to go for a walk or run, right after work each day? That can greatly reduce stress and make the time at home on weekends less of an issue. My running time is my "me" time. 6-7 hours on the weekend is a LOT for you to take with so many small kids at home. By spreading that time out over the week, maybe it won't feel so stressful for her and you will feel more relaxed about weekends. good luck.


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## Exodus (Oct 14, 2009)

Well, I wrote my wife a letter explaining how I felt, but I would rather just change the situation than press for the time, I would try to include everyone in the time that i tried to make stress free. Well two days went by, things were going ok for the most part, still dealing with some petty things. I had had a similar conversation with a friend about the topic as what we are having here, via txting on my phone, the wife took one of the boys to a doctors appointment today and had to take my phone. I didnt remove the txts because i dont feel a need to hide things from her, and i needed someone to talk with, i dont see how thats unfair really.. well it has turned into me 'bashing' her to other people, how i shouldnt be talking about our situation to others, she says that im a deadbeat father because i want some free time, and that i should never want time away from my kids, and that makes me worthless, she is done trying to change me, she says that i will never change, and that all i want is to be away from my family, she will be getting divorce papers when she gets back in town :S


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

While I can understand her being upset finding the texts, dropping the D-bomb is pretty extreme and completely illogical.

She doesn't want to let you have a few hours of free-time, yet she is willing to throw away all of your time? This isn't really about a few hours for yourself, it sounds more like she wants you to think and be just like her...my way or the highway.

Would she be open to marriage counseling? I think dropping the D-bomb should be reason enough to go, as you have 4 kids to think about. In reality, I think a third party may help her see she is being unreasonable...however, she may not like that and refuse to go back if the counselor makes her feel she may be at fault here.


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## Exodus (Oct 14, 2009)

See, I dont see why there is any reason at all to get angry over me talking to someone about whats going on with my situation. As old as the tale is, bottling things up will just cause an explosion. Why should I have to remain silent about my thoughts/concerns?


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I'll be honest, I think she got angry because she knows she is being unreasonable and now thinks you painted a bad picture of her to your friend.

You seem to genuinely want to reach some sort of compromise, and talking with others to gain perspective, so I think this is a better approach than remaining silent.

I think the problem you face is that you could get millions to agree with you and your wife still wouldn't buy in...she doesn't seem to want to budge and even worse, makes you feel like an inadequate father for wanting a few hours on your own.


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

This is a problem in my marriage as well. I resisted letting my husband have free time. It wasn't because I didn't think he deserved it or even because I wanted him to spend all of his time with me. It was because I felt like he enjoyed his alone time more than he enjoyed being with me. It seemed like whenever I suggested going out just the two of us or doing something fun with the kids, he would be so-so about it. He wouldn't say no, but he just went with it and never made any suggestions himself.

But when he was planning some alone time he acted like he was a kid going to Disneyworld for the first time! He would talk about going out with his friends all week and on the night he was going he would rush with enthusiasm and excitement. I wanted him to show the same excitement when he was going out to dinner with me or to the aquarium as a family. I resented it and became jealous of his time away because I felt like it was more of a priority to him than me and the kids. 

We talked about it for a long time and he understood. He has since shown a lot more enthusiasum and anticipation when it comes to doing things with me and the kids and I don't mind when he goes out now because I know he likes being with me just as much he just wants to be alone or with the guys at that time.


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## Exodus (Oct 14, 2009)

That was pretty spot on I think.. If I had to guess, I would bet she feels very much like that :S, making this five minute post here has given me such thought and insight , I have a ton of thoughts/ideas to try and work with, but the challenge at the moment is getting her to let me try.. Her claim is "There is no way that over two or three days you are ready to try.." -_-


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## sjm1983 (Sep 18, 2009)

Also factor in embarrassment. She probably thinks this friend now has a bad opinion of her. She is probably going to always wonder what you are talking about without her knowing (not that this is wrong, but it is what it is). She probably doesn't want to be around that friend of yours anymore either.

She might have been more receptive of the idea if it was strangers like us, or maybe not. She could feel stubborn and not want you to be painting what she would consider bad thoughts of her.

Sometimes its hard to realize that just because the picture is different then the one she would have painted its still the same picture just some things are more in focus for you then would be for her. 

Maybe suggest she come post her thoughts, it might help you both to see where the other is coming from. I think that a divorce is a little drastic at this point.


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