# A Mothers Nightmare!



## d4life

*A Mothers Nightmare! Update page 5*

Hello. I am new here and I am hurting right now. I could use some advice. I have a daughter who will be turning 20 in just a few days who has put us through pure hell for the past few years.

A quick back story. We are a very loving family but a few years ago when my daughter was in the 8th grade, she met a guy who was in the 10th grade, They fell in love over the phone. The first time I met him I just knew he was trouble. My mommas instinct and boy was I right. 

I let her know real fast that I didn't approve. I found out a few months later that he had dropped out of school. I made them break up because of that, his drug problem and he had abused my daughter. (13)

He threatened to kill me so that they could be together. I filed a restraining order for my daughter and me. Later I find out she had seen him again. 

This became a pattern for her, and for the next 6 years this has been our life story. She would date him, get abused he would cheat and so on, all while we thought he was out of the picture. We would find out be devastated and she would agree he was trouble, we would send her to counseling and so on. This is a short version and if I told you everything that has happened the hair on your neck would be standing up.

Just this week we found out that she has been staying with him. Now she is a legal adult, so she can do this but our hearts are just broken. Not only is she in danger, she is also throwing away her college education. She has turned her back on the entire family, on both sides, to be with this loser. No kidding, he is every mothers worst nightmare!

She has chosen to stay with this guy and his parents so that they can smoke pot, with his parents no less, and God only knows what else. 

When I found out I had her bring her car and cell phone home. We pay for them and I refuse to let her keep them while this is going on. I have been paying her car ins and cell phone, giving her money and so on for months while she has been seeing him. I feel like a FOOL!

I am so used to this that its not even funny, but this is where I have had to draw the line this time. I CAN"T DO THIS ANYMORE! I am so DONE! Beyond done! I was so angry with her that day, because I had that gut feeling that it was happening again and she lied again. No surprise. She lies to me about EVERYTHING! Anyway, I told her that I never want to see her again. Tough words. Words that I really dont mean, but I was hurt and I am tired of it. I will never accept him into this family, I WILL NEVER! He followed me to the police station with a loaded gun in his truck for God's sake. I cant do this!

The problem is that I am worried about her. I know there is nothing that I can do but pray at this point. My feeling is that maybe this is Gods way of finally letting her see just what that life would be like, to show her that this is NOT right, but I honestly dont know why this is happening. 

She says that she loves him and always has. I reminded her of the beatings and him putting a cigarette out on her leg and she said she made all of that up back then. No she didn't! I saw bruises on her recently too which made my red flags go up again and she made excuses for them. She has such low self esteem, caused by years of his abuse, that I am really afraid for her.

I keep thinking that this is just not happening, but it is and we are all just devastated over it. In my heart I dont think it will last long because something in me is saying that now that we have given up and pretty much kicked her out so that she could be with him, the game is not going to be as fun for him and he will eventually kick her out or something. 

Has anyone ever been through anything like this? Any advice? I am heartbroken here, I am worried sick but I refuse to support her behavior anymore. My husband feels the same way. He said sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they can get better. We have spend thousands of dollars on counseling for her. I dont know what else to do.


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## 827Aug

My heart goes out to you. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I was there up until a couple of months ago. Not as bad as your case, but still bad.

I took a little different approach with my daughter. I was completely there for my daughter, but I let her know I did not approve. After awhile it became apparent to her that life would be much easier by dumping the boyfriend and his family. I never alienated her from me; I knew that would drive her closer to her boyfriend. Anyway, here's the link to my thread:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...0-input-daughters-relationship-boyfriend.html

As a parent, it's really tough to see your child throw everything away. Sometimes you just have to let them fall down and then be there to pick them up. As so many things in life go, there's no "one size fits all" rule. What works in one situation or for one parent may not work for someone else. Hope you find the right approach/solution for your family.


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## d4life

827Aug said:


> My heart goes out to you. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I was there up until a couple of months ago. Not as bad as your case, but still bad.
> 
> I took a little different approach with my daughter. I was completely there for my daughter, but I let her know I did not approve. After awhile it became apparent to her that life would be much easier by dumping the boyfriend and his family. I never alienated her from me; I knew that would drive her closer to her boyfriend. Anyway, here's the link to my thread:http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...0-input-daughters-relationship-boyfriend.html
> 
> As a parent, it's really tough to see your child throw everything away. Sometimes you just have to let them fall down and then be there to pick them up. As so many things in life go, there's no "one size fits all" rule. What works in one situation or for one parent may not work for someone else. Hope you find the right approach/solution for your family.


Thank you! She knows that we have always been there for her. We have supported her through many, many things that she has done that we have not approved of, including moving to another state with another abusive boy just a few months after she graduated from high school. We were there for her. She called and wanted to come home and we drove all the way there to get her. She wanted to move in with friends so we helped her and a few months later helped her move back in.

She has just had us on a roller coaster ride that I am ready to get off of. I'm tired. I have two younger children too (12 & 14) who are sick of the drama that she has put us all through. It's never ending. 

OMG, while I was typing this one of her good friends called looking for her on her phone. We talked for a few minutes and I told him what was going on and he said that he has been there when this boy has hit her. I am so frustrated that he has not told me this until now, he knows how we feel about this but he said he would try to talk to her. Now I am more worried than ever because he has seen it, recently. 

Why are girls attracted to guys like this? What can I do?


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## Tony55

There's nothing you can do, she's 20, it's sink or swim time. Just be there for her when she sinks.

Neither of them should be living with their parents at their age, especially him.

You did the right thing by cutting financial support.

T


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## the guy

Call your kid up and tell her you were frusterated and angry cuz money is tight (lie) and the cell and car are no longer affordable(again lie) but if you need any thing (besides money) feel free to call.

Also let her know that even though your pissed you will always be there.


I'm concerned you now have put up a wall between you and your kid and when the beatings get worse she won't have anywere to turn.

Were are the men in her life that truely love her like uncles and cousins? Cuz someone would be dropped off in the desert on a cold winter night.

The reality of it is it is a crime to hit someone, irregardless if they are adults or won't press charges. Get to know your local laws with regard to dometic abuse and assualts. You may beable to use these laws in your favor and put some presssure on this kid and his family. With enough pressure the prize might not be worth the effort.

I think it sucks you gave up but I'm no were near your sitch.....but then again you know what I would do if I was.

I'm so sorry for you! 

Truely, the-guy with a 19 B and 22 G


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## d4life

Tony55 said:


> There's nothing you can do, she's 20, it's sink or swim time. Just be there for her when she sinks.
> 
> Neither of them should be living with their parents at their age, especially him.
> 
> You did the right thing by cutting financial support.
> 
> T


That's the only thing that I knew to do. She knew how we felt about this but we have always given her everything that she has wanted. She lies to us about everything and that is another thing that has been hurtful. 



the guy said:


> Call your kid up and tell her you were frustrated and angry cuz money is tight (lie) and the cell and car are no longer affordable(again lie) but if you need any thing (besides money) feel free to call.
> 
> Also let her know that even though your pissed you will always be there.
> 
> 
> I'm concerned you now have put up a wall between you and your kid and when the beatings get worse she won't have anywere to turn.
> 
> Were are the men in her life that truly love her like uncles and cousins? Cuz someone would be dropped off in the desert on a cold winter night.
> 
> The reality of it is it is a crime to hit someone, irregardless if they are adults or won't press charges. Get to know your local laws with regard to dometic abuse and assualts. You may beable to use these laws in your favor and put some presssure on this kid and his family. With enough pressure the prize might not be worth the effort.
> 
> I think it sucks you gave up but I'm no were near your sitch.....but then again you know what I would do if I was.
> 
> I'm so sorry for you!
> 
> Truely, the-guy with a 19 B and 22 G


I worried about putting up the wall at first, but she knows me well enough to know that she can always count on us to be here, not matter what I may have said. She knows how broken hearted I was the other day when I stood there trying to talk to her as she packed her bags. She laughed at me. 

Oh and believe me we do have men here who could take care of this kid, but there is a fine line with the law, and to be honest I am scared of him myself. I have changed the alarm code on the house and it stays on 24-7 right now. You should see this punk! 

My daughter is smart, she is beautiful and she has so much going for her that to do this just breaks my heart.


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## turnera

My advice is to call the cops, give them their address, and tell them that everyone inside is a pothead. Best way ever to get her over him.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> I worried about putting up the wall at first, but she knows me well enough to know that she can always count on us to be here, not matter what I may have said. She knows how broken hearted I was the other day when I stood there trying to talk to her as she packed her bags. She laughed at me.


And that is your problem. She has no respect for you because YOU have no respect for you. Have you done any reading on Tough Love? It's time.


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## underwater2010

First, please call her and say that you were angry and hurt that she continues to stay with a man that hurts her. Let her know that you will be there if she needs you. The sad fact is that she is likely to get pregnant with your grandchild. It will then be your job to get that precious child out of that enviroment. You cannot do that if you are not in communication with her.

As for her personally....I am not sure she will ever see the light. It might some day when he almost beats her to death or when he raises a hand to their child. 

I am so sorry you are going through this.


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## EleGirl

Sometimes pulling back your support is the best thing you can do. Certainly taking away anything you help with moneywise is a good idea.

The net effect of what you are doing is to put the pressure on her to sink or swim with this crazy decision she has made. By not helping out financially, it puts more pressure on their relationship.

One thing I would do if I were you is to call her, or met her somewhere, and tell her that you love her. But you cannot bear to see her with this guy. Plus you are afraid of him for your own safety, for good reason.

Tell you that you are there for her if she needs help. This way she knows that if she is in danger and wants to get away she can call you.

Then have a plan. If she calls you will get her a ride (call a taxi or meet her away from where they live). You could have her come stay with you for a few days or find her a safe house if she calls. If /when this happens try to get her to press domestic violence charges against him. Be there for when/if she wises up.

One thing you need to consider is that pot might not be the only drug involved here. Part of her attraction to him might be that he supplies her with drugs. I’ve seen this play out with other young girls. Some guy gets them hooked on something like meth. If that’s going on your problem is bigger than you think. Sorry to bring this up but the situation sounds similar to some other I’ve been aware of.


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## 827Aug

underwater2010 said:


> As for her personally....I am not sure she will ever see the light.


There's always hope.....and that's what keeps us going. My nightmare ended well, so I know that can happen to others.

The key to much of this is to make the bond between you and your daughter greater than the bond between your daughter and her boyfriend. After my daughter moved in with her lazy/crazy boyfriend and his family, we still spent time together. We basically hung out together and had great times. Do you and your daughter share common hobbies/interests?


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## d4life

turnera said:


> My advice is to call the cops, give them their address, and tell them that everyone inside is a pothead. Best way ever to get her over him.


See, I think that would back fire on me and I am to scared of that crazy family to do that right now. 



turnera said:


> And that is your problem. She has no respect for you because YOU have no respect for you. Have you done any reading on Tough Love? It's time.


This is exactly what my husband has been saying. I have given her everything and she has ran all over me. This is why I am trying to do it now and I will not be supporting her with any money at all. 



827Aug said:


> There's always hope.....and that's what keeps us going. My nightmare ended well, so I know that can happen to others.
> 
> The key to much of this is to make the bond between you and your daughter greater than the bond between your daughter and her boyfriend. After my daughter moved in with her lazy/crazy boyfriend and his family, we still spent time together. We basically hung out together and had great times. Do you and your daughter share common hobbies/interests?


Not lately. I have only been helping her with a big paper she had for school. I promise over the past year she has only been here late at night or she may come by to shower but she has not been spending any time here at all. Now I know that she has been with him. 

*update*
She called the house from work a little while ago. I was so glad that she had found a way to get there, and I was glad to hear from her. She just wanted to know why her friends were getting her little brother when they tried to call her. Her phone was off and locked. My other daughter knew the password. I told her that I let him use the phone since I pay so much a month for the Internet service on it. 

She said that all of her friends think that I am insane for turning my back on her. There is no telling what she is saying to everyone. I told her that I have not turned my back on her that I was still here and that i loved her but as long as he was in the picture things would stay the way that they are. I also told her my concerns. 

I told her that her friend said that he witnessed the boyfriend hitting her and she denied it. She said he would never say that and I told her that he would be contacting her on FB. She said that the boyfriend has not hit her. Yeah right!

That was about it because she had to go. I do feel better after talking to her but this is no way close to being over. It's just the beginning.

My thing is, after thinking about this tonight, she has been on and off agian with him for all this time, but she turned 18 almost two years ago. If they really loved each other like she says, why wait almost two years?


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## turnera

d4life said:


> See, I think that would back fire on me and I am to scared of that crazy family to do that right now.


Backfire how? Make her mad at you? Being mad at you is worse than laughing in your face? pffft

That 'crazy family' won't be doing anything. They will be IN JAIL.

You're making excuses.


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## Bellavista

It is hard to let go and stop enabling your kid's bad behaviour. When our drinking drug using son used to ask for money for food, we would either give him a gift card for the supermarket or buy them groceries & take it to the house of him, his g/f and their daughter. We would not give him money as it could be used for drugs or booze.
You can be there for support without being an enabler. It is so hard though to step back & let them make mistakes. The hardest thing to do as a parent is to let your kids make their mistakes, no matter how awful those mistakes are. Out of my 5 kids, 2 are determined to walk their own path, no matter what befalls them. 
You should let her know you are there for her and then step back. Let her come to you. In some ways it is the same as having a wayward spouse, you can't smother your daughter with love & concern.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> This is exactly what my husband has been saying. I have given her everything and she has ran all over me. This is why I am trying to do it now and I will not be supporting her with any money at all.


Your husband is right. ANY child professional will tell you he is right. I can't even count how many parents of DD22's friends did just what YOU are doing - trying to NICE your daughter into loving and wanting you. And it - THAT - has backfired on you, right?

Your child - and she is a child - needs a steadfast, strong, UNBENDING parent. Not a friend.

When I raised DD22, from about age 12, I told her I will always love her, but I may not like her. Not my job. My job is to raise a healthy child who learns how to be a healthy adult, and then I let go. I told her I will never judge her and that she can tell me anything. I may judge the ACTIONS, but never her. She tested me on a couple things, but I was steadfast and never judged her.

I told her there are RULES in my house and as a minor, she will obey the rules (that everyone follows) - or she will suffer the consequences for breaking those rules. I laid out in advance what those consequences would be (skip school, and I will quit my job and follow her into school every day to make sure she attends; sneak out and you will be locked out; etc.).

She told me recently (taking a child psychology class for her degree) that I was an 'authoritative' parent and it was the best kind to be, according to the book. I set out expectations and consequences, and let HER decide if she wanted to break my rules and be punished. We asked her once why she never got grounded like all her friends were always doing, and she just shrugged and said 'why would I do things I know will get me punished?'


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## turnera

d4life said:


> I told her that I let him use the phone since I pay so much a month for the Internet service on it.


Stop making excuses. She's your daughter, not your friend. You don't owe her any excuses. Stop it.



d4life said:


> She said that all of her friends think that I am insane for turning my back on her.


So? She's your daughter and her friends are HER friends, not yours. Do you care what little Johnny next door thinks of how you walk your dog? Then why do you care what her friends think? Ignore it.



d4life said:


> There is no telling what she is saying to everyone.


So? She is your daughter, not your friend. Any adult who hears from her will see a child and will ignore her. Any other child who hears from her is just a child and is unimportant - as you are an adult, and not her friend.



d4life said:


> I told her that her friend said that he witnessed the boyfriend hitting her and she denied it. She said he would never say that and I told her that he would be contacting her on FB. She said that the boyfriend has not hit her. Yeah right!


Stop getting involved in this. You have said your piece. She knows how you feel. Any further engagement on this lowers you to child level. Stop it.



d4life said:


> My thing is, after thinking about this tonight, she has been on and off agian with him for all this time, but she turned 18 almost two years ago. If they really loved each other like she says, why wait almost two years?


Because YOU are still babying her and she doesn't want to give that up. As soon as you start coddling her and make her face her own consequences, like getting arrested for being a pothead, she will learn - real quick.

Stop being afraid of making your CHILD mad at you. Act like the adult, ok? She NEEDS you to be the adult.


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## tom67

Tony55 said:


> There's nothing you can do, she's 20, it's sink or swim time. Just be there for her when she sinks.
> 
> Neither of them should be living with their parents at their age, especially him.
> 
> You did the right thing by cutting financial support.
> 
> T


It's called tough love and had to be done you stopped enabling that's the best you could do.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> Backfire how? Make her mad at you? Being mad at you is worse than laughing in your face? pffft
> 
> That 'crazy family' won't be doing anything. They will be IN JAIL.
> 
> You're making excuses.


I believe with everything in me that these people are dangerous. At this time I am not going to do anything to risk retaliation from them because I have two other children here to think about. 



turnera said:


> Stop making excuses. She's your daughter, not your friend. You don't owe her any excuses. Stop it.
> 
> So? She's your daughter and her friends are HER friends, not yours. Do you care what little Johnny next door thinks of how you walk your dog? Then why do you care what her friends think? Ignore it.
> 
> So? She is your daughter, not your friend. Any adult who hears from her will see a child and will ignore her. Any other child who hears from her is just a child and is unimportant - as you are an adult, and not her friend.
> 
> Stop getting involved in this. You have said your piece. She knows how you feel. Any further engagement on this lowers you to child level. Stop it.
> 
> Because YOU are still babying her and she doesn't want to give that up. As soon as you start coddling her and make her face her own consequences, like getting arrested for being a pothead, she will learn - real quick.
> 
> Stop being afraid of making your CHILD mad at you. Act like the adult, ok? She NEEDS you to be the adult.


Thank you. I know you are right. I am not backing down this time. While I love her and all of that, she needs to hit bottom to see exactly what I am talking about here.

Another thing is that she has a birthday (20th) next week, and then there is Christmas coming up too. What should I do here? Everything in me is saying not to do anything for her after all of this and just wait. I don't really feel like buying her gifts anyway after she has done this again and I am NOT giving her money. Any advice with that? 

I keep thinking of Thanksgiving when she told me she had to work, but she would be off for Christmas and then when my other daughter went through her phone she was with him and his family the whole time. She never even came home all week. She said she was staying with a friend.


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## turnera

What makes you think they would blame you if some tip comes in and they get raided? I'm sure half the neighborhood knows it's going on.

As for the holidays, you tell her that as long as she is drug-free, she is welcome at your home any time. You tell her that you reserve the right to test her. If she's unwilling to do that, she's using.

Look, she has learned to lie to get her whatever she wants. Utterly. That will take a LONG time to overcome that urge. And it will never happen as long as you reward her for it. 

Be completely honest with her. Never tell her a lie. Tell her you don't like what she's become and, as her mother, it's your job to be her guide for doing things that are healthy and helpful. As such, you will treat her with respect ONLY when she earns it. Right now, she doesn't deserve it. But you have faith in her and know she'll eventually get it. Until then, your doors are open ONLY if she agrees to testing. And every lie she tells you will come with a consequence, such as being excluded from Christmas celebrations. It's her choice. And then you walk away to leave her to think about it. 

You have to be UNCHANGING, ok? KNOW what is right and EXPECT her to do right, but never back down on giving those consequences. As far gone as she is, that is the ONLY way she will ever see clear of this.

And I have to be honest with you. You only have maybe a 50% chance she will come out of this, if you're lucky. She has spent her ENTIRE molding period doing all the wrong things and getting the wrong responses from you guys. It's not clear if she has seen enough strength in your family to guide her out of it. It's far more likely she will reject you, because your way is 'hard,' and she'll spend the next 10 years wallowing in drugs and dead-end jobs and welfare, before she finally matures and regrets her choices.

My best friend's little sister had the easy parents who always took her back, gave her money, believed her lies, and never put their foot down. She lost TWO sets of kids over the years from being in an out of prison for drugs. The first set, her husband divorced her and took the kids away. The second one, a boy, she had in prison and my friend adopted him and raised him. She didn't stop messing up until she was about 40. Some people really do just have to live out the rock bottom to finally have enough of it.


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## Chris Taylor

Sounds like my daughter 

Tough love is the only way to go. No phone, no car. If she thinks life is fine without an education, let her figure it out the hard way.

if you know her friends and they have their heads screwed on right, you could mention to them that you are worried about her safety. Your daughter won't listen to you, but maybe friends will have more influence.

Don't give up. The best words I ever heard from my daughter was "I should have listened to you sooner." You'll hear them someday.


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## d4life

Chris Taylor said:


> Sounds like my daughter
> 
> Tough love is the only way to go. No phone, no car. If she thinks life is fine without an education, let her figure it out the hard way.
> 
> if you know her friends and they have their heads screwed on right, you could mention to them that you are worried about her safety. Your daughter won't listen to you, but maybe friends will have more influence.
> 
> Don't give up. The best words I ever heard from my daughter was "I should have listened to you sooner." You'll hear them someday.


You are right, and I hope and I pray that "someday" comes sooner than later, but I do believe that one of these days she will see what we have preached to her over the years. She knows she is being abused but is making excuses for it. I just dont think he has hurt her bad enough yet but I am sure it will happen. Last night when I talked to her I told her what to watch for and that she needs to be aware. She thinks I am stupid I guess.

When I asked her about the drugs she said "it's only pot mom". The problem for me is that I have never done any kind of drug in my life and while some think that pot is no big deal it is to me. I look at it like a gateway drug. I will never see it any other way.

It's now facebook official. I just want to die.


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## turnera

She's an adult and HER life is not YOUR life. Not any more. Time for some tough love on YOU, ok?


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## d4life

Today is her 20th birthday and I find my self feeling very guilty for not wanting to do anything for her. I am really not sure if I should offer to take her to lunch sometime this week or just let it go. 

I talked to her yesterday for a minute. She is still hoping that we will all accept this punk into our lives but that will never happen. She said we have turned our backs on her and that for us to do that means that we never loved her and that we are not a very good family. That hurt because we do love her and I believe that we are a wonderful family, and I feel that she is the one who turned her back on us. She has gone against everything we have ever taught her about dating and all of that.

We also got a text in from her old phone from a drug dealer or friend saying he had plenty of smoke. It just burns me up!

I am not good at this tough love thing, at all. I had to take my son to the Dr this week and our Dr is well aware of all the crap we have been through over the years with her. He has sent her for counseling and all of that many times. She has confided in him on her own and all of that, so he understands. He also had a daughter who did the same thing who is now in her mid 30's and has not changed. He advised tough love. He said he wished they had done it sooner but he is not sure it would have changed anything anyway, but it could have.

I have not reached out to her today but I see that my mother put a post on face book about her birthday. It was a sweet little message about becoming a grandmother 20 years ago today, and how she is now a woman, and how she wishes her well in her future. I am not mad at my mom for it, but I just think we should limit contact and reaching out to her. I'm probably wrong about that too though. It seems everything I say or do right now needs to be analyzed by someone who knows better.  

Another kicker from my daughter. She is on a gateway scholarship to attend a local community college. She found out months ago that a class that she had signed up for is not covered. (It had been in the past but new changes say that it is no longer covered) Instead of taking care of this back then it rocks on to now. On top of this, she decided to drop the class way back when, and I thought she had done that. Nope, I get a call from her and she was crying saying that it was to late to drop the class and that she owes $440. for the class. 

My husband says that she should be responsible and that she is never going to learn. I am thinking it will never get paid and she will ruin her credit and that we should use any and all birthday money and part of Christmas money to cover it, but then I think that would be us bailing her out, again. ???

I am just so torn right now. I want to help her in so many ways, but I know that I cant. I just want to do the right thing here and not make things worse. That's why I am posting on here and asking for advice.


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## turnera

It won't ruin her credit. It will get paid eventually because it will follow her. Let her deal with it.

There are kids who want to learn from you, and there are kids who defy everything you do, and have to learn from their OWN mistakes. Just accept she's one of those and let it go.

The right thing right now is to stay dark and ignore her pity party and her manipulation. That's all it is. You wouldn't accept talk like that from a coworker, would you?

Hon, YOU ARE NOT HER FRIEND. YOU ARE HER MOTHER. 

Be a mother and set rules and live by them. She NEEDS you to be rock solid right now and show her the way home, ok? Some day she'll thank you for being strong and not letting her get away with stuff.


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## Runs like Dog

Rather difficult to set rules for a 20 year old. My youngest is 21 and totally dependent on me economically and still it's fairly pointless to attempt to either micromanage or enact sweeping doctrines. Maybe they won't turn out the way you expect but you probably didn't turn out the way they expected either. In the end character is what it is. It's what you do when no one's looking. If your children are still struggling with character at age 20-something there's not much you can do about that. That's not to say no one stumbles. They do and then you catch them and proceed from there.


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## the guy

You should of taken her out to lunch, I mean its not like your supporting her choice in men or giving her money for christ sakes, your just going out to lunch for her birthday. Hell its just lunch nothing more nothing less. 
I mean the two of you can talk about the weather, eat your lunch and give her a huge when you drop her back off at the punks house.

At least now send her something like a belated b-card or a FB message wishing her a happy b-day.

I don't think that would be some great statement that your supporting her choices...again its just a greeting wishing her a happy b-day.

My point is let your kid know the lines of communication are always open no matter how much the both of you agree to disagree or how much she thinks you bailed on her. She thinks you abandon her, show you you haven't by wishing her a happy b-day...contact her to just say hi and let her know you are thinking of her....keep it short and plesent...nothing more nothing less.

Contacting your kid once in a while just to say hi is not supporting her, its just that, saying hi! Sure she will ask for money or want this and that but tell her you guys can talk about that later and wish her well and say good by ( a blow off if you will). Maybe you guys can get to a point were you are labeled as blowing her off instead of abandoning her.

IDK if it makes any sense, but I sure hope you guys can get past this.


----------



## 827Aug

the guy said:


> You should of taken her out to lunch, I mean its not like your supporting her choice in men or giving her money for christ sakes, your just going out to lunch for her birthday. Hell its just lunch nothing more nothing less.
> I mean the two of you can talk about the weather, eat your lunch and give her a huge when you drop her back off at the punks house.
> 
> At least now send her something like a belated b-card or a FB message wishing her a happy b-day.
> 
> I don't think that would be some great statement that your supporting her choices...again its just a greeting wishing her a happy b-day.
> 
> My point is let your kid know the lines of communication are always open no matter how much the both of you agree to disagree or how much she thinks you bailed on her. She thinks you abandon her, show you you haven't by wishing her a happy b-day...contact her to just say hi and let her know you are thinking of her....keep it short and plesent...nothing more nothing less.
> 
> Contacting your kid once in a while just to say hi is not supporting her, its just that, saying hi! Sure she will ask for money or want this and that but tell her you guys can talk about that later and wish her well and say good by ( a blow off if you will). Maybe you guys can get to a point were you are labeled as blowing her off instead of abandoning her.
> 
> IDK if it makes any sense, but I sure hope you guys can get past this.



:iagree: 

This is exactly how I played my daughter. Once your daughter becomes completely alienated from you, she will cling even more to the boyfriend. You can go tough love with her, but also leave communication lines open. It is possible to do both.


----------



## d4life

Earlier this afternoon I sent a text to the number she has been texting me from, which is his phone, asking to tell her that we all said happy birthday. He said I could call her if I wanted to so I got the family together and we each talked to her for a minute, wished her a happy birthday and that was about it. She sounded really sad on the phone.

Just a few minutes ago she called back and asked me if I would give her car back if she paid the Ins., like I had been asking her to do for the past year and she said she never had the money for. I am not shocked by this call at all. I told her that we couldnt do that. (My Dr. suggested that we not give in to her demands and this is a big one in my book.) She said that she needs the car to get to and from work and to school and that she had no way to come see us. My guess is that she wanted to come get her birthday gift from my mother and he wouldn't bring her over here. He is a control freak. 

I feel like giving her car back would be me caving in. I want to be here for her but I have been used to much, and lied to way to many times. I want to keep the lines of communication open, and I am working to do that, but I refuse to let her manipulate me anymore. My husband and I feel the same way.


----------



## d4life

827Aug said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This is exactly how I played my daughter. Once your daughter becomes completely alienated from you, she will cling even more to the boyfriend. * You can go tough love with her, but also leave communication lines open.* It is possible to do both.


This is what I am trying to do.


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## golfergirl

d4life said:


> Earlier this afternoon I sent a text to the number she has been texting me from, which is his phone, asking to tell her that we all said happy birthday. He said I could call her if I wanted to so I got the family together and we each talked to her for a minute, wished her a happy birthday and that was about it. She sounded really sad on the phone.
> 
> Just a few minutes ago she called back and asked me if I would give her car back if she paid the Ins., like I had been asking her to do for the past year and she said she never had the money for. I am not shocked by this call at all. I told her that we couldnt do that. (My Dr. suggested that we not give in to her demands and this is a big one in my book.) She said that she needs the car to get to and from work and to school and that she had no way to come see us. My guess is that she wanted to come get her birthday gift from my mother and he wouldn't bring her over here. He is a control freak.
> 
> I feel like giving her car back would be me caving in. I want to be here for her but I have been used to much, and lied to way to many times. I want to keep the lines of communication open, and I am working to do that, but I refuse to let her manipulate me anymore. My husband and I feel the same way.


No car. Bus - walk - buy her own. Further proof she does not take you seriously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

d4life said:


> Earlier this afternoon I sent a text to the number she has been texting me from, which is his phone, asking to tell her that we all said happy birthday. He said I could call her if I wanted to so I got the family together and we each talked to her for a minute, wished her a happy birthday and that was about it. She sounded really sad on the phone.
> 
> Just a few minutes ago she called back and asked me if I would give her car back if she paid the Ins., like I had been asking her to do for the past year and she said she never had the money for. I am not shocked by this call at all. I told her that we couldnt do that. (My Dr. suggested that we not give in to her demands and this is a big one in my book.) She said that she needs the car to get to and from work and to school and that she had no way to come see us. My guess is that she wanted to come get her birthday gift from my mother and he wouldn't bring her over here. He is a control freak.
> 
> I feel like giving her car back would be me caving in. I want to be here for her but I have been used to much, and lied to way to many times. I want to keep the lines of communication open, and I am working to do that, but I refuse to let her manipulate me anymore. My husband and I feel the same way.


Why didn't you blow her off by telling her you could talk about it later? 
Hell as far as your concerned later means when she stops see the punk. But in her mind it would look hopeful. Even though she would never get he car until she bails on the punk, that still constitues "talking about it later".

In fact you could also look at it as a carrot, keep tangling the carrot....just don't tell her any of this....keep telling her "you will talk about it later, and when she ask when you can tell her "you know when"!


----------



## the guy

Why are you lecturing your 20year old kid about weed? I think your about 5 years to late but thats just me.


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## the guy

I found it interesting you had to get the family all together to wish your kid a happy b-day.

Can't your old man pick up the phone and call his own daughter and wish her a happy b-day.

What I mean is do all get together and buy her one present whan she was young or did you each as individuals give her something?

I think it would of ment more if each of you to take a second out of there lifes and wish her the best, but no you had the cell number and had to control this event.

I think this punk needed to see that his girl friend just doesn't have a mother but having is cell phone going off all day with all the people that care for her might get him thinking how many poeple are really looking out for your kid/his GF.


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## turnera

You did well. You showed her she still has a family, but that you're unwilling to give in, that it has to come from her, when she's ready.


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## d4life

the guy said:


> Why didn't you blow her off by telling her you could talk about it later?
> Hell as far as your concerned later means when she stops see the punk. But in her mind it would look hopeful. Even though she would never get he car until she bails on the punk, that still constitues "talking about it later".
> 
> In fact you could also look at it as a carrot, keep tangling the carrot....just don't tell her any of this....keep telling her "you will talk about it later, and when she ask when you can tell her "you know when"!


I tried that, she kept pushing the issue. She knows exactly why she will not be getting the car back, I made that clear.



the guy said:


> Why are you lecturing your 20year old kid about weed? I think your about 5 years to late but thats just me.


Se knows how I feel about that and that will never change. The reason for the talk about weed is because if the text that came on her old phone. Also because of the fact that she is working for cash to support her boyfriends habit, which I was told about. Also the fact that his mother makes brownies with weed in them. I don't agree with any of this so I will tell her so until the day I die. 



the guy said:


> I found it interesting you had to get the family all together to wish your kid a happy b-day.
> 
> Can't your old man pick up the phone and call his own daughter and wish her a happy b-day.
> 
> What I mean is do all get together and buy her one present whan she was young or did you each as individuals give her something?
> 
> I think it would of ment more if each of you to take a second out of there lifes and wish her the best, but no you had the cell number and had to control this event.
> 
> I think this punk needed to see that his girl friend just doesn't have a mother but having is cell phone going off all day with all the people that care for her might get him thinking how many poeple are really looking out for your kid/his GF.


Actually everyone had told her happy birthday on Facebook earlier in the day at different times. When I went to make the call I had everyone together so that we could pass the phone around. I don't understand the big deal with that. 



turnera said:


> You did well. You showed her she still has a family, but that you're unwilling to give in, that it has to come from her, when she's ready.


Thank you. This has got to be the hardest thing we have ever been through in our 23 years of marriage. I guess we will just have to take this day by day and see how it goes. She says she loves him, however I don't think she is happy. It's just a matter of time before he slips up again.


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## turnera

And she'll need to see that for herself. Best to back off, let her know you'll be there if she ever gets her act together, and wait her out.

And in the meantime, start reading some psychology books about raising kids, so you can see how the way you raised her was at least partially responsible for this - which will help you in future interactions with her.


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## Corpuswife

I am going through similiar circumstances.....nothing works. They have to come to their own conclusions. See my post here under Tough Love. 

A really good book is Setting Boundaries with your Adult Children. Good luck.


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## Hicks

Woud you do something to intentionally keep your daughter doing what she is doing?

Well you are every time you talk to her. The only solution is to tell her you love her and she is always welcome back into your life if she wants to live as she was raised.

And then stop having a relationship with her until that occurs. It's hard as hell, but the only thing that could possibly work.


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## d4life

Corpuswife said:


> I am going through similiar circumstances.....nothing works. They have to come to their own conclusions. See my post here under Tough Love.
> 
> A really good book is Setting Boundaries with your Adult Children. Good luck.


I feel for you because it's awful, especially around the holidays.



Hicks said:


> Woud you do something to intentionally keep your daughter doing what she is doing?
> 
> Well you are every time you talk to her. The only solution is to tell her you love her and she is always welcome back into your life if she wants to live as she was raised.
> 
> And then stop having a relationship with her until that occurs. It's hard as hell, but the only thing that could possibly work.


I understand what you are saying. Everyone has told me to Speak to her when she calls, be nice and and let her know that we love her. The conversation normally ends with her asking or her car, us saying no, and her threatening not o see or speak to us. A few days go by and she calls again. I do not call her. 

Yes, this is so very hard. I saw her or the first time in three weeks the other day and it just broke my heart. She is such a pretty girl and to think she is with such scum just tears me apart. Since her boyfriend won't bring her to the house, I offered to bring her birthday from my mom to her to where she works. She begged for her car back while I was there. I have not heard from her today. Like I said, I don't call her, she calls here.


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## turnera

See, you've already wiggled yourself back into protector mode, bringing her her present. Monday, you'll find a reason to bring her some Christmas presents, with some money tucked in...


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

SELL THE DAMNED CAR!

It is a PRIVILEGE that she doesn't deserve. She should NEVER get it back! IF she moves back home permanently, let her walk, ride a bike, take the bus, whatever until SHE EARNS THE MONEY FOR HER OWN USED JUNKER CAR. Choices have consequences; cr*ppy choices have cr*ppy consequences! It's SIMPLE MATH!

SELL THE CAR. Your next child is 2+ years away from needing it. 

SELL THE CAR.

Do NOT use the money to bail her out of her school problem.
Do NOT use the money to bail her out of anything.
Do NOT use the money to buy her Xmas presents.
SELL THE CAR and put the money in YOUR bank account for family bills.

Next time she calls about the car, tell her "We no longer own that car, we sold it."

Ditto, for the cell phone! (read the above paragraph substituting the words 'cell phone' for 'car'.)


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## Hicks

You give her the message once, that you are always there for her should she make a better choice, and then stop taking her calls.


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## d4life

It's Christmas Eve and I have not heard from her since my last post. She was invited to come over here when my inlaws were here for Christmas but she didnt call or show up. I think I was relieved because I really didnt want to have any drama here that day. 

I have not bought her the first Christmas gift. My mother sent her a few small things in a bag, and gave me cash to put up for some clothes or something. I have no idea when she will get the bag. I will not be taking it to her this time. The clothes will be bought by me. My in laws gave me cash to put up for a medical emergency or something of that nature. I will put that money away for her. No one wants her to have any cash right now because the BF is not working, and because of drugs. We refuse to enable her bad habit.

Her friend called me out of the blue and said that he has not heard from her in weeks. It looks like this guy has complete control of her again. They used to talk a lot.

Tomorrow will be different but we are making the best of it. I keep trying to remind myself that we are so very blessed in so many ways. This is just a bump in the road, and I pray daily that it gets better.


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## momvswild

I feel for you so much. I do think, however, that your husband's words about hitting rock bottom are very wise. At some point she has to find out things for herself....I know, I know...she may never 'see' the things that are going to find HER first. But, at some point you have to stop beating yourself up for this. You have done so much and yes, it is time for sink or swim. God I hate typing that! Because I know i would feel just like you....she will always be your baby. Let her know this and then, let her go. sniff. Take good care of yourself. It sounds like you need to turn your focus back to yourself and just love on yourself right now. Wear some heels, try on new makeup. Just love yourself. Just by enjoying yourself and your husband you are setting a good example that she just may 'see' one day.


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## d4life

momvswild said:


> I feel for you so much. I do think, however, that your husband's words about hitting rock bottom are very wise. At some point she has to find out things for herself....I know, I know...she may never 'see' the things that are going to find HER first. But, at some point you have to stop beating yourself up for this. You have done so much and yes, it is time for sink or swim. God I hate typing that! Because I know i would feel just like you....she will always be your baby. Let her know this and then, let her go. sniff. Take good care of yourself. It sounds like you need to turn your focus back to yourself and just love on yourself right now. Wear some heels, try on new makeup. Just love yourself. Just by enjoying yourself and your husband you are setting a good example that she just may 'see' one day.


Thank you. It was a much better day than I thought it would have been. Other than her not being here it was Christmas as usual. She did call this afternoon to wish us a Merry Christmas. I told her the same. I asked if she had a good Christmas and she said that they bought her a dress that she had wanted. So I guess that was from his mom and the jerk didn't get her anything. Yet, she should know this because he has no job. No job= no money, no money = no gifts. 

She was crying on the phone saying that she thought we would give her car back since it's Christmas. I told her no, it's not going to happen. She said that she would leave us alone then and never call again. She hung up on me. 

While it was hard at first to stand up to her, somehow it is getting easier for me. I still pray daily that she will soon see what we have told her for all of these years. She is giving up everything she has ever known, and all that she has worked for, to be with this guy. It's so hard to watch.

If any good has come from this it will be that our other two children have seen us hold true to our word. They see the mistakes that she has made and hopefully they will not go down that path.


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## EleGirl

((((((((((hugs)))))))))) I know this is hard but you are doing the right thing. You are right that this is setting an important example for your other children. I do pray that your daughter wakes up very soon to the reality of her situation and returns to your family.


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## d4life

EleGirl said:


> ((((((((((hugs)))))))))) I know this is hard but you are doing the right thing. You are right that this is setting an important example for your other children. I do pray that your daughter wakes up very soon to the reality of her situation and returns to your family.


Thank you. I hope she does too but I am getting more doubtful asthe days go by. I know that she doesn't seem happy, but who knows what is really going on in that head of hers. 

This guy is dangerous though, I do know that. His last picture on Facebook was of him at a shooting range. My kids saw it and showed it to me. With anyone else I wouldn't think that much about it but I know how he is.  I have just got to let all of this go and see what happens. It's like watching a nightmare in slow motion.


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## d4life

*Question????*

With the end of this no where in sight, what about covering her on the car Ins. Our policy is due soon and I am seriously considering removing her from the car ins. The only thing is that should she be driving someones car and she has an accident she will no longer be covered. What would you do? I am leaning towards cancelling and letting her deal with it, but my husband wants to wait.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I'm still for:


SELLING the car
Cancelling the insurance on it
Removing daughter from your policy

how does she still qualify?
She's an adult
She's not a full-time student, is she?
She does not reside in your home?

BTW: If she moved home, I would NOT rush to give her all her privileges back; how do you know she won't just take the car (once you give it to her) and head back to The Loser? If she doesn't drive the car, she doesn't need to be on the insurance. What is your H holding out for on cancelling her from the policy?


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## d4life

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I'm still for:
> 
> 
> SELLING the car
> Cancelling the insurance on it
> Removing daughter from your policy
> 
> how does she still qualify?
> She's an adult
> She's not a full-time student, is she?
> She does not reside in your home?
> 
> BTW: If she moved home, I would NOT rush to give her all her privileges back; how do you know she won't just take the car (once you give it to her) and head back to The Loser? If she doesn't drive the car, she doesn't need to be on the insurance. What is your H holding out for on cancelling her from the policy?


If she came home I would not rush to give her anything back at all. In fact, I really dont want her to come back home because she just brings us all down with all of the stress and drama. I am finally over all of that. 

No, she is no longer a student since she quit school and she no longer lives here, so I am not sure if she qualifies to be on our policy or not. It has been a month now I guess. DH was just wanting to give her a little more time, but Im not sure how long.


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## turnera

She's 18, right? Then it's not your problem if she doesn't have insurance. Time to let her see what it's like being responsible.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> She's 18, right? Then it's not your problem if she doesn't have insurance. Time to let her see what it's like being responsible.


She is 20 actually, and I think you are right. She has proven her point that she no longer needs us. 

She called Christmas Day and said that she will not call us again until we decide to give her the car back. She also called me a "b" several times in that Conversation. The whole time I was very calm and sweet, but I refused to cave on the car. Actually, I will be selling it after the first of the year or before spring. 

As time goes on I get stronger, and I am kicking myself for falling for her lies for all of that time. I guess that was a way to avoid facing the truth of what she was doing. I don't know, but what ever it was I am done.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> She called Christmas Day and said that she will not call us again until we decide to give her the car back.


Oh NO! Not THAT! lol
:rofl:



d4life said:


> She also called me a "b" several times in that Conversation.


My only comment is that you should have hung up on her after the very first "b" word. Please do that the next time she calls (and she will) to try to manipulate you again. You don't even have to say a word. She'll understand what 'click' means after she cusses you out.


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## Chris Taylor

d4life said:


> She is 20 actually, and I think you are right. She has proven her point that she no longer needs us.
> 
> She called Christmas Day and said that she will not call us again until we decide to give her the car back. She also called me a "b" several times in that Conversation. The whole time I was very calm and sweet, but I refused to cave on the car. Actually, I will be selling it after the first of the year or before spring.
> 
> As time goes on I get stronger, and I am kicking myself for falling for her lies for all of that time. I guess that was a way to avoid facing the truth of what she was doing. I don't know, but what ever it was I am done.


No respect, no conversation. Simple as that.

As for the car, do you and/or your husband use it? if so, just tell her she's no longer on the policy and can't drive it. However I would actually keep her on the policy if you can afford it just in case she does get the keys and crashes.

You could also just cancel the registration and tell her when she has the money to buy it (for some nominal amount), re-register and insure it she can come and get it.


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## turnera

I was watching Super Nanny the other day and the 13 year old son who was becoming outrageous, the mom finally tried to stand up to him and take his phone away; he refused (he was bigger than her). So she just left his room, called the phone company, and cancelled the service on his phone, without skipping a beat. I was so proud of her!


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## Corpuswife

Tough love is tough! On US!!! Give her nothing. Nothing. Love her...support her good behaviors.


Do no succumb to her manipulation (being nice, sweet, name calling, promises, etc).

Pain is a great motivator. In tough times, you figure out who your friends are and who you can lean on. She will have tough times.....She needs to feel pain. Unfortunately, it's hard to watch and can go on for years. 

I've been there....there is hope but she needs to figure this out on her own.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> I was watching Super Nanny the other day and the 13 year old son who was becoming outrageous, the mom finally tried to stand up to him and take his phone away; he refused (he was bigger than her). So she just left his room, called the phone company, and cancelled the service on his phone, without skipping a beat. I was so proud of her!


I am learning to take this approach, and it feels good to finally take charge of my life when it comes to her. I am also more careful with the other two children now, but they have never done anything like this at all and I don't see it ever being an issue. They are so different.



Corpuswife said:


> Tough love is tough! On US!!! Give her nothing. Nothing. Love her...support her good behaviors.
> 
> 
> Do no succumb to her manipulation (being nice, sweet, name calling, promises, etc).
> 
> Pain is a great motivator. In tough times, you figure out who your friends are and who you can lean on. She will have tough times.....She needs to feel pain. Unfortunately, it's hard to watch and can go on for years.
> 
> I've been there....there is hope but she needs to figure this out on her own.


You are so wise. :iagree:

Yes, she is going to have to learn this on her own. The problem that I am having right now is that it's embarrassing. I think people look at me like some kind of horrible parent and a failure. I am dealing with this by telling people who ask about her that no one would ever believe this could happen until you have walked in my shoes. It's awful!

I still have not heard from her. I really don't think I will for a while longer. I just pray that she will wake up soon and see it for what I is. It's going to take a while because of his mother supporting them in every way possible.


----------



## turnera

One thing to remember is that, if you're a kid and your sibling is the problem child, odds are good that YOU will turn into the 'good' kid in the hopes that your parents will finally notice you.

Please don't be that parent who ignores the kids who don't cause the problems.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> One thing to remember is that, if you're a kid and your sibling is the problem child, odds are good that YOU will turn into the 'good' kid in the hopes that your parents will finally notice you.
> 
> Please don't be that parent who ignores the kids who don't cause the problems.


That's very true in many cases, but I'm not that parent with the other two. We stay busy supporting them with cheer, soccer, and football and we all spend time together at home. We are all very close.


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## turnera

Good to hear it.


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## d4life

*It Only Gets Worse....*

She's 5 weeks pregnant. Now what?


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## turnera

Wish her well. Ask her how she's planning to get through the pregnancy. On her own. Point her to the county medical agencies so she can get set up for free medical care.


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## Corpuswife

Ah....one of my fears! To bring an innocent child into the world. 

For many young moms it's a wake up call to end their selfishness....

Doesn't it change your world???? Heck yes! 

Turnera is right. Wish her well, love her and point her in the right direction. 

I know this adds to your worry. Treat yourself well. There is nothing else you can do.


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## d4life

I was beyond upset when she called from the hospital. She was admitted for dehydration. She has been throwing up for 5 straight days so they decided to take her. How kind of them. 

I dont know what to think anymore. I told her that we would support her decision but we would not be responsible for any bills, or her or anything else. This jerk is NOT EVEN WORKING! How the hell is he supposed to support a child when he cant even support himself? I told her to be prepared to raise this child alone because he will not be there. He got mad at her for throwing up to loud.  He said he couldnt sleep. 

She is still on our health Ins. policy and when she checked in they filed it under our ins. I didnt sign anything because I wasn't there. How does this work? I have so many mixed emotions but the strongest two are major disappointment and anger.

Oh, and she told me that she couldnt call us unless he was sitting there to hear. She said that he and his mom were already talking of ways to keep us out of the baby's life. My first thought was to report them to CPS for the drugs and everything else that goes on in that house.

Why is this happening? We didnt raise her like this.


----------



## turnera

Well, didn't we already tell you to do that? Report them?


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## d4life

turnera said:


> Well, didn't we already tell you to do that? Report them?


Yes, and I will. Just not yet. I'm not sure how all of that would work to report them before the child even got here.


----------



## turnera

Not to CPS. To the police. For drugs.


----------



## d4life

turnera said:


> Not to CPS. To the police. For drugs.


All I know is that they smoke pot and drink. If I report that before the baby gets here it will cause problems because my luck they would go there and not find anything. 

If I wait, then the child would be in a bad environment and with his police record and our restraining order and all of those problems, I would have a stronger case. 

I'm so upset, not crying, but just upset about this whole thing. She was being so stupid and not even using birth control. It's almost like she did it on purpose.


----------



## EleGirl

d4life said:


> I was beyond upset when she called from the hospital. She was admitted for dehydration. She has been throwing up for 5 straight days so they decided to take her. How kind of them.
> 
> I dont know what to think anymore. I told her that we would support her decision but we would not be responsible for any bills, or her or anything else. This jerk is NOT EVEN WORKING! How the hell is he supposed to support a child when he cant even support himself? I told her to be prepared to raise this child alone because he will not be there. He got mad at her for throwing up to loud.  He said he couldnt sleep.
> 
> She is still on our health Ins. policy and when she checked in they filed it under our ins. I didnt sign anything because I wasn't there. How does this work? I have so many mixed emotions but the strongest two are major disappointment and anger.
> 
> Oh, and she told me that she couldnt call us unless he was sitting there to hear. She said that he and his mom were already talking of ways to keep us out of the baby's life. My first thought was to report them to CPS for the drugs and everything else that goes on in that house.
> 
> Why is this happening? We didnt raise her like this.


The insurance thing. I had it with my step-children after they were of age. They used the insurance but they were listed as the responsible party.

I did get some bills and I wrote letters to the provider telling them that I did not sign as responsible person and I would not pay. The providers never came back to me for money.


----------



## EleGirl

d4life said:


> I was beyond upset when she called from the hospital. She was admitted for dehydration. She has been throwing up for 5 straight days so they decided to take her. How kind of them.


Do twins run in your family? I had this problem when I was carrying twins. It has to do with twins and two placentas creating double the estrogen. Is there any chance that she is carrying twins?

(I don’t think that twins run in my family so sometimes women just have twins.)


d4life said:


> I dont know what to think anymore. I told her that we would support her decision but we would not be responsible for any bills, or her or anything else. This jerk is NOT EVEN WORKING! How the hell is he supposed to support a child when he cant even support himself? I told her to be prepared to raise this child alone because he will not be there. He got mad at her for throwing up to loud.  He said he couldnt sleep.


If this keeps up, hopefully she will grow to hate him.


d4life said:


> Oh, and she told me that she couldnt call us unless he was sitting there to hear. She said that he and his mom were already talking of ways to keep us out of the baby's life. My first thought was to report them to CPS for the drugs and everything else that goes on in that house.


Was he sitting there when she spoke to you? That sounds very bad. It sounds like she is being seriously abused by him and his mother.

Is your wife also conniving to make sure you do not get to see the baby? 

Hopefully this guy is not smart enough to put his name on the birth certificate when the baby is born.



d4life said:


> My first thought was to report them to CPS for the drugs and everything else that goes on in that house.


What besides drugs and alcohol go on in that house?


----------



## turnera

d4life said:


> It's almost like she did it on purpose.


 She probably did. You finally showed a spine and said no to her, and she knows you, that you're too weak to turn your back on a baby. So now she has your money and help again.

Unless you do this correctly.


----------



## d4life

EleGirl said:


> The insurance thing. I had it with my step-children after they were of age. They used the insurance but they were listed as the responsible party.
> 
> I did get some bills and I wrote letters to the provider telling them that I did not sign as responsible person and I would not pay. The providers never came back to me for money.


Thank you for letting me know this. I did not sign her in at the hospital so I should be covered there. I told her that we were NOT responsible for any medical bills what so ever. This is their problem, not ours. 

She is still in the hospital right now. I thought they were just going to keep her over night but I called about 10:00 this morning and she was still there. I did go see her for about 30 minutes because he was not there. He did stay over night with her but left about 7:00 this morning. I dont now if he is back or not.

I could not stay longer than I did because just seeing her enraged me. I kept thinking what did I do wrong that made her become what she has. I just dont understand how she could possibly think this is OK. The sad thing is, I would probably be excited right now if it were someone decent she was having this baby with. He has no job, does drugs, has some kind of criminal record (destroying mail boxes and other things) and God only knows what else. WHAT is attractive about that?



EleGirl said:


> Do twins run in your family? I had this problem when I was carrying twins. It has to do with twins and two placentas creating double the estrogen. Is there any chance that she is carrying twins?
> 
> (I don’t think that twins run in my family so sometimes women just have twins.)
> 
> If this keeps up, hopefully she will grow to hate him.
> 
> Was he sitting there when she spoke to you? That sounds very bad. It sounds like she is being seriously abused by him and his mother.
> 
> Is your wife also conniving to make sure you do not get to see the baby?
> 
> Hopefully this guy is not smart enough to put his name on the birth certificate when the baby is born.
> 
> 
> What besides drugs and alcohol go on in that house?


She is only caring one, thank God! They did an ultra scan to see how far along she is. She is 5 weeks.

I didnt know until I saw her at the hospital that she was not allowed to talk to me unless he was sitting there. She had to use his phone because we took hers. He would then go off on her about how he hates us and blah blah blah. Believe me, I hate him more!

I guess I should have used a better user name, because I am the mom.  My husband has been very understanding. He is such a good man. He keeps me grounded when I feel like flying off of the handle. He is so sweet and tender hearted BUT he has his limits. He has said that God is in control and that what ever happens we have to deal with it the best way that we can. I wish I could see it like that right now but as a mother I am just thinking about how hard this is going to be for her. 



turnera said:


> She probably did. You finally showed a spine and said no to her, and she knows you, that you're too weak to turn your back on a baby. So now she has your money and help again.
> 
> Unless you do this correctly.


This is where I will need help. I dont want to cave in. She needs to learn a life long lesson from this one. It's going to be something that will be with her forever.


----------



## Wiserforit

d4life said:


> It's almost like she did it on purpose.


Not almost. 

Too many years of giving her everything while she pooped all over you. She figures a baby will guilt-trip you into support now: 



> I find my self feeling very guilty for not wanting to do anything for her


Exactly. She's been guilt-tripping you since infancy. As parents we have to stand up to our infants or they run all over us with crying, testing boundaries, etc.

Why do my kids listen to me and ignore my wife? Because I spank fannies or put them in a room by themselves. No chances. Zero tolerance. Behave 100% or else.


----------



## turnera

Lessons would include: you give her NO MONEY whatsoever. I've seen half a dozen of DD22's friends get free medical care, free formula, free diapers, free food, what else have I left off?

SHE DOESN'T NEED YOUR MONEY.

And having to live on what the government will give her may be the best thing for her.

Another lesson: YOU WILL NOT BE HER BABYSITTER, unless she pays you in cash BEFOREHAND for it.


----------



## d4life

turnera said:


> Lessons would include: you give her NO MONEY whatsoever. I've seen half a dozen of DD22's friends get free medical care, free formula, free diapers, free food, what else have I left off?
> 
> SHE DOESN'T NEED YOUR MONEY.
> 
> And having to live on what the government will give her may be the best thing for her.
> 
> Another lesson: YOU WILL NOT BE HER BABYSITTER, unless she pays you in cash BEFOREHAND for it.


She will not be getting a dime from us, and I have no plan to keep the child for her to lay up and sleep like she is so used to doing.

She has a few friends who have babies. ALL of the dads are no longer in the picture. You would think she would see this!


----------



## turnera

Unfortunately, being raised to expect mom and dad to pick up your slack gives you narrow vision (no offense) and doesn't teach you to think ahead.


----------



## d4life

turnera said:


> Unfortunately, being raised to expect mom and dad to pick up your slack gives you narrow vision (no offense) and doesn't teach you to think ahead.


It's funny. I have raised all of my children the same. Lauren is the oldest by five years, and seven years. Thats is a pretty big age gap. She has always said that we have done more for the youngest, even though that's not true. She never showed any interest in anything like they have, yet when she did we went all out to support her like we do the others. She liked being in plays with the drama team (fitting huh) so we supported the whole team. I bought props, outfits, donated items to help. Just like I would have with the younger ones.

The only problem is we were hard on her about Matt. The reason is because of drugs and alcohol, he dropped out of school, abused her mentally and physically, the list goes on and on. We were TRYING to prevent what has happened now.  I would give her an inch and she would take a mile. I just found that over the years I could not trust her. I have not had these issues with my other two children, and I don't foresee any.

My other two children are NOTHING like this. My soon to be 15 year old has boys chasing her yet she won't "date" any of them. She is so picky, sometimes I wonder if she is this picky in fear of what she has seen in her sister. She has a dream even at 15. My son does too. They are self motivators. Lauren never had a plan and she is not self motivated, at all. I asked her yesterday what her plan was, she said we don't have a plan. 

The reason I said all of this is to show that we didn't always let her have the easy life. We grounded her and held her accountable. We did slack after she graduated, and I regret that. It's just she was 18 then and let us know real quick that we could no longer tell her what to do.  This is when she moved out for the first time, and it has never been the same since. 

Maybe some of what we did gave her narrow vision, but we tried to guide her the best way that we knew how. Everything with Matt that we ever advised her to do she has done the exact opposite. It would be funny if it were not so serious. She has made bad choices, even with out best advise. 

I tried in the past to explain to her that raising a child is hard. It's like a long journey on the sidewalk of a freeway. When they are small, we hold their hand and walk beside them to keep them safe. When they are a little bigger we let loose and walk closely behind so we can be there to catch them if they need us. Soon we walk far behind and they are walking at their own risk. It's up to them to make good choices and stay safe. 

You can do your very best to guide them and teach them but in the end it's all on them. That's where I am with her right now.


----------



## F-102

d4life, where is her father in this? (I get the feeling that your H is not her father).

And why is her father or your "wonderful" H not stomping the bejeezuz out of that scumbag right now?


----------



## d4life

F-102 said:


> d4life, where is her father in this? (I get the feeling that your H is not her father).
> 
> And why is her father or your "wonderful" H not stomping the bejeezuz out of that scumbag right now?


OK, what good would that do? What is done is done and nothing we can say or do will change that. We dont need other issues to have to deal with because I promise you its bad enough already. Plus, this guy is DANGEROUS, which is why I am so upset that she is with him in the first place.

My husband is very supportive, and he is her daddy. He is very upset at the moment but he is handling it as well as he can. Other than that I dont know what else he could do different to help with this from what he is doing.  What would you suggest, besides beating the guy up? That's not acceptable to me, even as much as I would love to.


----------



## Bellavista

d4life said:


> OK, what good would that do? What is done is done and nothing we can say or do will change that. We dont need other issues to have to deal with because I promise you its bad enough already. Plus, this guy is DANGEROUS, which is why I am so upset that she is with him in the first place.
> 
> My husband is very supportive, and he is her daddy. He is very upset at the moment but he is handling it as well as he can. Other than that I dont know what else he could do different to help with this from what he is doing.  What would you suggest, besides beating the guy up? *That's not acceptable to me, even as much as I would love to*.


I agree, the last thing you need right now is you H being hauled off to jail for beating the b/f up.
Gah, kids, they can rip your heart out & then stomp on it for good measure.
D4life, the hardest thing we can do as parents is to take a step back & let our kids live out the consequences of their actions. It will get harder once there is a baby involved as well, especially if your daughter is still in that situation.
With our granddaughter, we take her to stay with us a couple of days a month, the rest of the time, I just have to trust that her nutty mother will take care of her.
We are having all kinds of trouble with our eldest son, the father of the aforementioned granddaughter. Last night I said to my H that if I could go back again, I really don't know if I would have kids again, H agreed that at least some of them we might not have & we both know we were talking about the eldest.
Just keep hanging in there, weep with your H & don't let your daughter guilt you into giving her money.


----------



## d4life

Bellavista said:


> I agree, the last thing you need right now is you H being hauled off to jail for beating the b/f up.
> Gah, kids, they can rip your heart out & then stomp on it for good measure.
> D4life, the hardest thing we can do as parents is to take a step back & let our kids live out the consequences of their actions. It will get harder once there is a baby involved as well, especially if your daughter is still in that situation.
> With our granddaughter, we take her to stay with us a couple of days a month, the rest of the time, I just have to trust that her nutty mother will take care of her.
> We are having all kinds of trouble with our eldest son, the father of the aforementioned granddaughter. Last night I said to my H that if I could go back again, I really don't know if I would have kids again, H agreed that at least some of them we might not have & we both know we were talking about the eldest.
> Just keep hanging in there, weep with your H & don't let your daughter guilt you into giving her money.


Thank you for that. Every time I hear of someone going through something like this it somehow helps me. I guess if nothing more than to help me understand that we are not alone.

I was shocked today but his mother called me. I have not seen her since the court date years ago. She was under the impression that we knew about their relationship. She said Lauren told her that she told us. After talking to her for about 45 minutes it became very clear that we all have been lied to by my daughter. I flat out told her that I can't trust Lauren, and that she will manipulate you if given a chance. I also told her that I think she got pregnant on purpose, and that she will try to push the marriage issue, because I advised against it. She agreed that that would be a bad idea.

As much as I hated to have to talk to her, she did make some sense. She was telling me that what I know about Matt is all lies though. I just don't believe that. I'm so confused. :scratchhead: 

Not having a good day.


----------



## Bellavista

No mother wants to believe that her darling son could be an abuser or a no hoper. She will believe what her son tells her, more than likely she is turning a blind eye to the truth.

We have some friends, they have a son who is my age, was married & had a son. At one stage we lived next door to the son & he also worked for my parents. He was an abuser & a creep. He killed our family pets because they wandered into his yard, a cat & a puppy. He took my parents to the cleaners by faking a back accident at work.He called the police on me & said my kids were neglected. He hit his wife & kept his kid scared.

When the wife finally found the courage to leave, she told people he was abusing them. His family refused to believe that was the truth & they said the wife was making up stories so she could get custody of the son.
Never underestimate how blind a parent can be to their offspring's faults. To admit you raised an abusive son who is on drugs is a hard thing for a parent to do, most would prefer to bury their heads in the sand.


----------



## d4life

Bellavista said:


> No mother wants to believe that her darling son could be an abuser or a no hoper. She will believe what her son tells her, more than likely she is turning a blind eye to the truth.
> 
> We have some friends, they have a son who is my age, was married & had a son. At one stage we lived next door to the son & he also worked for my parents. He was an abuser & a creep. He killed our family pets because they wandered into his yard, a cat & a puppy. He took my parents to the cleaners by faking a back accident at work.He called the police on me & said my kids were neglected. He hit his wife & kept his kid scared.
> 
> When the wife finally found the courage to leave, she told people he was abusing them. His family refused to believe that was the truth & they said the wife was making up stories so she could get custody of the son.
> Never underestimate how blind a parent can be to their offspring's faults. To admit you raised an abusive son who is on drugs is a hard thing for a parent to do, most would prefer to bury their heads in the sand.


OMG, that is just awful.  Believe me, I am well aware of this kid, and while Lauren may have made up some of it, most she did not AND there were witnesses. I also do not trust her because years ago I let Lauren go over to their house because she promised me that she would be there to watch them, (this was way back in the beginning and I was giving the benefit of the doubt) that they were going to watch the movie Happy Feet. Yes I still remember what I was told. Come to find out, she dropped them off and went somewhere. This proved to me back then that she could not be trusted. She covered for him while he cheated on my daughter back then too.

One thing that really does worry me is my daughters behavior. I am beginning to worry about her mental well being. The mom told me how Lauren went crazy yelling and so on at him when she thought her old roommate was after him recently. From what she said, Lauren sounded psycho or something. She is known to have major mood swings, now I am thinking she may be bipolar or something. There has to be something wrong to make her do these things and act this way.

I am also beginning to think that Lauren trapped this kid into this pregnancy. The mom thought she was on birth control. While she had the pills, she never took them. She never used anything else either. She told me she didnt think she could get pregnant.


For the moment, I have decided to lay low and play nice for now, for the baby's sake. I wont call her. When she calls I will be respectful but I will not be taken advantage of, AT ALL! I told her that we would be supportive, but will not support them financially. I told his mom she should do the same.


----------



## d4life

How do you deal with the rage? I am still so angry with her.  I hate what she is doing to not only her self, but to our family.

She called tonight wanting her car back so she can get to work. She ended up cussing me out. She said she hated us, which I have known for quite a while. She said that we are her parents and that we should help her. As much as I want to, I cant make myself do it. It's almost like I hate her too. How can I feel that way about my own child?

Right now she is at her friends house, who lives right behind us. She has not set foot into our house since she left the week after Thanksgiving, yet she talks about how much she misses her siblings and our dog. 

I'm thinking that she thinks that we should just accept her and Matt and go on. I have seven years of stress from that kid built up inside of me. It's not something that I can just let go of, you know?

I thought I could be nice, but I am finding it way to hard to. Especially when she is telling me that her friends think I am crazy (which she has said for years) and that we are horribly parents for not being understanding. 

I dont think I am going to make it through this. I really dont.


----------



## turnera

Yes, you will. I know it's hard. But know that she has another 70 years ahead of her. These 5 to 10 years are just her testing grounds. It's YOUR job to make these years LEARNING years. Is it fun? No. Will it be easy? Obviously not. But will she eventually learn to respect you and understand WHY you did what you did? Most likely.

Look at it as your training grounds, where you help her deal with the most traumatic part of her life, where she learns to segue from the entitled part to the learned, wiser part?

Not your job right now to make her feel good. Only to TEACH HER. You're teaching her how to grow up.


----------



## the guy

@turnera, you are one smart lady.

Letting go can be so hard but you have a great oppertunity to be a great teacher. 

I don't know if this will help but her hatred towards you may be a good sign in how difficult reality is and the stress of the relationship is bearing down on your kid.

Her own anger just might be the thing that show her that the grass isn't greener on the other side and what other are say are not always what they really can provide.

Maybe her anger is more about you being right and the poeple she picked are not that cut out to what they say they are.

Hopefully there will come a time were she questions the fact that her man and his family can't provide for her and she sees the benifits of her own family.

Keep stressing this relationship and never negogiate your daughters love.


----------



## turnera

Yeah, when DD22 railed at me and told me she hated me, I just figured it meant that what I said was hitting home. I just retreated and let her figure it out (and realize I was telling her the truth).


----------



## Bellavista

You can be understanding without being enabling. Giving her the car when she is in a less than ideal situation of her own making is enabling. Understanding how she feels is not enabling.
If she was taking responsibility for her actions & changing course, then you could help her with the car. Right now, she had made her bed, she made her choice, she lives with the consequences.
How can a parent feel dislike for their child you ask. Well, when that child thumbs their nose at you and goes their own bad way, it is easy. Yes, it makes you feel guilty, yes, it makes you weep and breaks your heart, but you are not the only parent who feels this way.
I have mentioned before that my mother felt that all would be better off if my brother died when he was using & dealing. I feel like that with my son sometimes. I struggle to feel anything for him these days, I look at him & feel nothing, not even hatred.
Juat keep strong D4life, you are not alone & your daughter will come back to you when she has had enough of her lifestyle or when it all falls apart.


----------



## d4life

I know that you all are right, and I know this is going to take time, but i am so used to giving in to her demands that it has made this hard for me, especially because i can see that she needs it. I still refuse to give in to her because i am so sick of her lies and such. 

She is saying that she is going to lose her job because she can't get to work. They had been taking her but now the moms car completely died, and the boys truck sucks gas. I told her that was not my problem. They allowed this to happen in their home so they can work with her to find a solution. I even offered to take her to work and she refused, which I knew she would. She is just sick of sitting in that home and she has no freedom.

She is saying that I am trying to control her and that I am doing this because she won't date the kind of guy I want her to date. It's not that at all, it's the history with this guy. She said she understands why I am mad but she always thought we would be here to help her, and now we are not. She is laying the guilt trip on strong. I told her that they need to come up with a plan to find him a job. He didn't even go look for one this past week. 

I am just telling you that this is the hardest thing ever because at the end of the day I do love her and I would love to help her, but that would just be saying that we accept him, and I can't. It's also saying that what ever we need, our parents will give us, and that's not a good thing either. They need to learn on their own. :scratchhead:

It's very clear that she does not care for us at all. She chose to go to her friends house instead of coming here. It's just another slap in the face to be honest. 

My 14 year old is so sick and tired of dealing with issues with Lauren and Matt, she said she has been dealing with it since third grade. So, I have stopped talking about it as much. We went to my mothers two days ago to spend the night and we made a special effort not to talk to much about it in front of the kids. Tonight when she called, the other two go on edge right away. I could just see it.

I always knew parenting was a challenge, but this is so hard.


----------



## Bellavista

Make her buy the car off you if you think she really needs it. Then it is her car & her problem. Put all of the paperwork in her name, ie, insurance, registration & whatever else you have over there.


----------



## turnera

d4life said:


> She is saying that she is going to lose her job because she can't get to work.


One of my daughter's college roommates last year moved there from another state, without a car. She took a bus one way to her college and then took another bus to her job (where she worked 40 hours a week and STILL went to school) and then took another bus to buy groceries and such. 

Your D will figure it out, when she has to. Print her out the bus schedule.

When she comes to you with a couple thousand dollars saved up to buy the car, you'll know she's finally getting it.


----------



## turnera

I hope you're making a special effort to make good times with the other kids. They need to know they aren't invisible.


----------



## d4life

turnera said:


> I hope you're making a special effort to make good times with the other kids. They need to know they aren't invisible.


My husband and I both are making a big effort to make sure that we do this. We all went to my moms house to spend a couple of nights to get away from here. My husband took my son with him to do some boy things while I took Lindsey shopping for a couple of new tops. We went out to eat as a family and laughed. It was great. 

My kids are wanting to go back to Disney because it has been a little over a year since we have been so I am going to try to plan a trip soon. I think we could all use it. I have promised them that while things are changing, we are not going to let it control our lives, that this is Laurens issue and not ours.

The talks with Lauren last night ended with her never wanting to hear from us again. I cant believe that, but I am still so angry right now that a break from the drama will be good for me.

We did find out that our blue cross Inc. will cover Lauren until the baby is born. She will have to file for medicaid for the baby though. 

Today has been a much better day for me. We went to church this morning and I think the pastor must have known that we needed to hear what he spoke about today. It just backs up what you all have said and everything about responsibility and consequences and things like that. At least I can somewhat let this guilt go and know that what we are doing will hopefully help her. She needs to see with open eyes what she is facing.


----------



## Bellavista

I have always said I did not just get a baby at birth, I also got a truck load of guilt as well..


----------



## d4life

Bellavista said:


> I have always said I did not just get a baby at birth, I also got a truck load of guilt as well..


You sure got that right! 

I really hope and pray that this baby is a girl so that she can see exactly what it is like to worry, stress and to want someone to love and care for them and not abuse them in any way. While you worry about boys too, it's just not the same. It's a different kind of worry. I have a son, I can already see the difference.

I just know that she is going to have to do this alone and it breaks my heart to see it. Even though we have talked about this for many years and what would happen in this very situation, she has chosen to ignore every warning sign and every thing we have ever said, and go with it thinking we were all wrong.  Lord help her.


----------



## d4life

This is driving me crazy! I got a notice in the mail today that her drivers license has just expired so I called her to let her know. Of course she laid the guilt trip on hot and heavy. She said she would only give us one more chance to come to the agreement to give her the car back. She said it was one thing before but now I am doing this to her and the baby. She also needs her phone to get her work schedule. I am making her life pure hell. She said she is willing to pay for all of it. 

I am feeling so guilty. Like I am turning my back in her, even though I know it's called tough love, there is a baby involved now and I want to be a part of its life. I am soooooooooooooo confused.  I hate this!!!!


----------



## EleGirl

d4life said:


> This is driving me crazy! I got a notice in the mail today that her drivers license has just expired so I called her to let her know. Of course she laid the guilt trip on hot and heavy. She said she would only give us one more chance to come to the agreement to give her the car back. She said it was one thing before but now I am doing this to her and the baby. She also needs her phone to get her work schedule. I am making her life pure hell. She said she is willing to pay for all of it.
> 
> I am feeling so guilty. Like I am turning my back in her, even though I know it's called tough love, there is a baby involved now and I want to be a part of its life. I am soooooooooooooo confused.  I hate this!!!!


Don't forget that your health insurance is covering hundreds, if not thousands of $$ of medical care for her right now.

This guilt trip that she is putting on you is rediculous. If you give her the car, she is not the only one who will be driving it. You would be carrying the insurance and the car will be in your name. So you will have all of the liability.

And this from your daughter who will only find the next thing to blackmail you with and her boyfriend who would harm you given any small chance.


----------



## turnera

d4life said:


> This is driving me crazy! I got a notice in the mail today that her drivers license has just expired so I called her to let her know. Of course she laid the guilt trip on hot and heavy. She said she would only give us one more chance to come to the agreement to give her the car back.


Excuse me? HOW DARE SHE tell ANY adult, let alone her own mother, that she's giving YOU one more chance? Who the hell does she think she is?



d4life said:


> She said it was one thing before but now I am doing this to her and the baby.


YOU are not doing anything. SHE has every right to save up her money and PAY you for the car. 



d4life said:


> She also needs her phone to get her work schedule.


So...she hasn't worked since you took the phone back? Are you kidding me? Gee, was that a magical phone, the ONLY phone in the world that can reach her boss? lol



d4life said:


> I am making her life pure hell. She said she is willing to pay for all of it.


GREAT! Ask her when she'll have the money, and you'll start preparing to hand it over as soon as she gets it.



d4life said:


> I am feeling so guilty. Like I am turning my back in her, even though I know it's called tough love, there is a baby involved now and I want to be a part of its life. I am soooooooooooooo confused.  I hate this!!!!


You will be involved in your grandchild's life, ok? Maybe not right now, but she'll eventually get her head out from you know where.


----------



## d4life

I know what you are saying but she has a way to twist everything around to make this look like its my fault. Like when she was saying this she said what is your reason for not giving me my car? I told her because she has lied to us for way to long, because she knew how we would respond to this and because we don't support what she is doing. I mentioned the liability Lon us too. She told me that she thinks its because I am trying to get her to leave Matt, and that I am using the car as leverage. I told her that we were not doing that, but this is a result of her bad choices, and now she is stuck and she needs to stay. Then she will twist it back again. I swear she would make a good lawyer! 

I reminded her that we are helping by giving her the ins, she said she didn't need it, that she could get on Medicare. WOW, such a proud moment.  My husband checked into that and she doesn't qualify for it because she is already covered with blue cross. The baby will after its born though. 

I just don't know what to do.  We can't talk on the phone without going at it, no matter how hard I try not to. I find myself being so defensive and its just ridiculous. She attacked my son via Facebook chat tonight thinking it was me. She just laid into him. My daughter saw this and sent her a message letting her know it was her brother and not me. Then Lauren told her off by saying something about her being the perfect child.  My daughter didn't respond to her. For someone to be so happy, she sure has gotten mean. 

That's another issue too. The younger two are sick and tired of all of the drama caused by Lauren and her relationship with this guy. It has been going on and off or years.  I have tried to keep things quite here about it, but tonight turned into a stressful event, right in the middle of trying to help them study for tests.  They do NOT want her back in this house with a baby. I told them that right now, we had to take this thing one day at a time, but that daddy and I don't want her back here either, but that we would do what we had to do. I don't think I could survive it to be honest. 

I was so ready for the new year to get here, but if this is the way it's going to be, I want out now.


----------



## EleGirl

d4life said:


> I know what you are saying but she has a way to twist everything around to make this look like its my fault. Like when she was saying this she said what is your reason for not giving me my car? I told her because she has lied to us for way to long, because she knew how we would respond to this and because we don't support what she is doing. I mentioned the liability Lon us too. She told me that she thinks its because I am trying to get her to leave Matt, and that I am using the car as leverage. I told her that we were not doing that, but this is a result of her bad choices, and now she is stuck and she needs to stay. Then she will twist it back again. I swear she would make a good lawyer!


You made this all about her not doing what you want her to do. That opens it up for her to twist your words and make you look controlling and/or manipulative.
I think you would do better to make it about the fact that she’s an adult and has made and adult choice. So when she asks for ‘her’ car, the response is. 
“It’s not your car. It’s my car. I own it. I pay for it. I pay for the insurance. 
The same goes for the cell phone. It’s not your phone. I pay for it.
The care and the phone were incentives to encourage you to go to college. 
You are an adult and have made the adult decision to live with Matt and have a baby with him. Adults support themselves and pay their own bills.”

Can you sell the car? If you get rid of it she cannot bug you anymore about it.


d4life said:


> I reminded her that we are helping by giving her the ins, she said she didn't need it, that she could get on Medicare. WOW, such a proud moment.  My husband checked into that and she doesn't qualify for it because she is already covered with blue cross. The baby will after its born though.


So it’s all your fault that she cannot get Medicare  See how that can be turned around? Can you get the medical insurance card away from her? Or cancel her on your insurance? I know that this might be hard but it’s something to think of.

How is she going to pay the co-pay and any uninsured amounts?



d4life said:


> I just don't know what to do.  We can't talk on the phone without going at it, no matter how hard I try not to. I find myself being so defensive and its just ridiculous. She attacked my son via Facebook chat tonight thinking it was me. She just laid into him. My daughter saw this and sent her a message letting her know it was her brother and not me. Then Lauren told her off by saying something about her being the perfect child.  My daughter didn't respond to her. For someone to be so happy, she sure has gotten mean.


I think that you need to use the 180 with her. Just back off and do not engage in her nonsense.
When she starts to go off the handle just respond with something like: “I’m glad to hear that you are happy these days. I’m busy right now so will talk to you later.” And then hang up. Or if facebook then just stop talking to her. Tell your other 2 kids to do the same thing. Just keep putting it back on her with as few words as you can.



d4life said:


> That's another issue too. The younger two are sick and tired of all of the drama caused by Lauren and her relationship with this guy. It has been going on and off or years.  I have tried to keep things quite here about it, but tonight turned into a stressful event, right in the middle of trying to help them study for tests.  They do NOT want her back in this house with a baby. I told them that right now, we had to take this thing one day at a time, but that daddy and I don't want her back here either, but that we would do what we had to do. I don't think I could survive it to be honest.


Then do not take her back. IF she left him right now can came back it would not because she saw the light and was ready to be the best daughter in the world. It would be because she has nowhere else to do. Look into low income housing, welfare, etc. Do not let her disrupt your home.

If you are up to it, take the baby and let her go find some other place to stay.



d4life said:


> I was so ready for the new year to get here, but if this is the way it's going to be, I want out now.


 180… you need the 180. She’s not even living in your home but she’s in complete control over the atmosphere of your home. Stop giving her that control. Stop talking to her.


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## d4life

It wouldn't really bother me to stop talking to her BUT my mother asks me everyday if I have heard from her. She is such a sweet lady and I would feel like I am letting her down if I don't try my best to make things better. She completely agrees with what we are doing but at the same time she is hoping that she will come to her senses. She has never seen or heard the way Lauren does us either, but she has heard me vent to her plenty.

There is added pressure about the car from my mom because she gave me the car for Lauren. It was given to me and she gave my sister the equal amount of cash value of the car because they were needing money. She did this because my granddaddy passed away and it was a part of inheritance for me and my sister. She agrees that Lauren should not have it, but lately I can tell she is backing off of that some since the baby news has come up. If I sold the car, my mother would be livid because she feels like this won't last long. So, I'm kind of stuck right now. 

I am really thinking of going and talking to our pastor about this. It's just so embarrassing.


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## Bellavista

I know, it does feel embarrassing, and you do feel judged, but the truth is, people do understand & you probably could do with some support.
So many parents, more that we think, have had to cope with wayward offspring. I often wonder why I can't have the perfect kids that other people seem to have, but in reality, I think that perfect kids do not exist.
EleGirl is right when she says your daughter is affecting your whole household without even being there. Those are also words I need to hear.
Funny story, our eldest daughter was wild between the ages of 13-16. We found our youngest daughter prayer diary from that time, she was 10 and had written: 'Dear God, please forgive B for all of her sins.' We didn't even realise that the youngest was aware of her sister being wayward, but the siblings do pick up on more than we think.
Just hang in there D4life, get some help, maybe see a family councellor if you think that might give you some guidance.


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## d4life

Bellavista said:


> I know, it does feel embarrassing, and you do feel judged, but the truth is, people do understand & you probably could do with some support.
> So many parents, more that we think, have had to cope with wayward offspring. I often wonder why I can't have the perfect kids that other people seem to have, but in reality, I think that perfect kids do not exist.
> EleGirl is right when she says your daughter is affecting your whole household without even being there. Those are also words I need to hear.
> Funny story, our eldest daughter was wild between the ages of 13-16. We found our youngest daughter prayer diary from that time, she was 10 and had written: 'Dear God, please forgive B for all of her sins.' We didn't even realise that the youngest was aware of her sister being wayward, but the siblings do pick up on more than we think.
> Just hang in there D4life, get some help, maybe see a family councellor if you think that might give you some guidance.


Thank you, and yes they do pick up on everything. Your younger daughter sounds precious. That's just it, they see these things and they do care and it hurts them too.

We talk about everything together here and I have always been open and honest about how I feel about things. My younger two are great. They see what is happening and they know it's wrong. Lauren, on the other hand, is living in la la land if she thinks this is going to work. She is blaming us for her problems now, but she has bigger problems ahead of her. 

I wouldn't mind going to see someone to talk to but I have lost faith in them at the moment because of all of the time and money I spent on counseling for Lauren and it didnt help, at all. That's why I thought our pastor would be better. I need God in my life, and I need to counseled to do the right thing. I don't want to feel guilty about the way I handle this. Right now I am feeling like the bad guy.

People are so mean too. There is this woman who's daughter cheers with my daughter. She claims to be the biggest Godly woman around, and she knows what is going on with Lauren. When leaving the gym yesterday she was talking to someone and as she walked away she said loudly, "I will be the best grandmother ever!". I am so raw right now and she knows that I am having trouble and to say this right infront of me like that was kind of like a slap in the face. I felt like punching her. Her kids are all still in school too so it's not like she is about to be one. I have found that she is just mean like this, and I try to ignore it but that was hard.

I'm just not having a very good week. I suddenly feel like my world is crashing in around me and I am trying real hard to stay positive but it's not easy.

I am to the point that I want to be excited about the baby because I love children. I actually bought some clearance baby things at Dillard's last weekend, but no one knows except my mom. I want to be happy, but it's just so hard in this situation.


----------



## RayRay88

I have no experience as an older mom whatsoever but I have been the one on her side (minus the physical abuse so I was lucky!). Regardless, I was considered to be the rebellious one when I turned 16. I never did anything truly horrible except wanna stay out late and do what I want. Never drank or did drugs. Once I turned 18 my issue was sleeping around like a wh*re- new guy every month or less than that sometimes. I eventually moved in with 3 different guys over the course of 2 years. My mom and I butted heads horribly. I think she could have handled it differently and I would have come around sooner.

So first, from my perspective you are doing right by cutting off from her through finances and such. However, let her know your door is always open. And continue to be available for her to talk. Be as understanding as possible. Sometimes if you're family background is a bit shaky and the relationship was never strong in the first place that makes it harder to connect on her level. Maybe you have experiences you can share with her?? Also, instead of reacting with anger show her how hurt you are- cry uncontrollably if you have to. If she has any kind of heart that should get through to her in time. My mom would yell and be nasty to me which did nothing but push me farther away. She closed up and never openly talked about how she felt.

And like many said, let her fall even if it's not what you want to do. I dealt with alot of heartache and "fell" many times before I wisened up and turned my life around  I really hope she does in time. She is only 20 so it may take a few more years. I didn't get my act together til I was 22. Some take much longer, others not so much. Then unfortunately, you have the ones that will never change no matter how much anyone tries  she will first need to WANT to change herself. Hope that helped a little.


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## d4life

Thank you RayRay, it does help to talk to people here. You said that had your mom handled it differently maybe you would have come around sooner. May I ask you what your mom could have done different? 

Lauren will tell anybody that she loves me. She told my mother last week that she loves me more than anything and she never wanted to hurt me. I am thinking there is NO WAY this could be true because I have been open with her all of her life. She knows exactly how I feel, without a doubt. She also saw how upset we all are. I had a heart to heart talk with her at the hospital, and I told her what to expect with this. She is just dead set on proving me wrong I guess. 

I just talked to my MIL on the phone for the first time since finding out. She has known for a few days but is recovering from surgery so we have not talked about it. She is giving me the same advice as most people here. Thank God they are very understanding people and I dont feel judged by them. They have known the issues we have had with her all along so this is no surprise to them either. She suggested that I look for a parents in crisis group. She thinks it may help.


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## turnera

The thing is, YOU DON'T OWE HER ANYTHING.

The only reason you are having trouble is that you are USED to believing you DO owe her something. She's a legal adult now, ok? She knows perfectly well what you expect from all your kids. She chooses not to BE that person. So she gets nothing. 

If you weren't such a pushover she wouldn't be continuously egging you on and guilting you. Maybe you need to look into therapy for yourself so that you can stop getting your 'worth' by giving your kids stuff. The adult doesn't have to please the 18 year old any more, ok? Once they hit that, it's the kid's job to fit into what the parent wants in her life. My DD22 knows that, now that she's past 18, she can stay at my house only if (1) she's in school or (2) she's paying me rent. I didn't teach her that to give me a power trip. I did it to help HER grow up and be responsible. She knows it, and there's frankly nothing she can do about it because it's MY HOUSE and MY RULES. The same should go for your car and phone - if she wants them bad enough, she knows your rules. If she doesn't want to play by your rules, SHE IS FREE to go out and find her own car and her own phone that SHE PAYS FOR. Nobody's stopping her.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> She told my mother last week that she loves me more than anything and she never wanted to hurt me.


 The same mother that is pressuring you to go soft on your daughter? 

Lauren manipulated her, too, d4life. And it worked. Kids do that, sometimes - find the weak link and USE it to get what they want. 

If you hold strong, keep showing her what you need from her so she has a clear picture, and don't change course, she'll eventually get it. And she'll either find her humility and apologize or she'll say screw you and go live life with her wonderful boyfriend. Just know that, if you cave, and you give her the car and phone, all you did was teach her that she just has to be stronger than you, last longer, because you're easy to manipulate. She'll have learned nothing, in fact, she'll have solidified in her mind that people are to be used. You'll have taught her that.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> The same mother that is pressuring you to go soft on your daughter?
> 
> Lauren manipulated her, too, d4life. And it worked. Kids do that, sometimes - find the weak link and USE it to get what they want.
> 
> If you hold strong, keep showing her what you need from her so she has a clear picture, and don't change course, she'll eventually get it. And she'll either find her humility and apologize or she'll say screw you and go live life with her wonderful boyfriend. Just know that, if you cave, and you give her the car and phone, all you did was teach her that she just has to be stronger than you, last longer, because you're easy to manipulate. She'll have learned nothing, in fact, she'll have solidified in her mind that people are to be used. You'll have taught her that.


I know that you are right, but it's so hard. So far I have held my ground though. 

Well, the real test is on now. I just got a statement in from when she was in the hospital. It showed that the amount paid went towards the deductible so they owe $238.00. This is not all, it was just one statement. I sent a text letting them know but of course I got no response. I am keeping all of the ins. forms in a file for my records. I really hope that this will open their eyes a little to their future!


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## turnera

Oh no, not that! You didn't tell them about the bill YOU got that they should have paid, that they know YOU are going to pay. That'll really wreck their world, worrying about you having to pay it.

Not.


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## turnera

What you need to do now is start tellling everyone who will listen - mother, MIL, friends, DD's friends, everyone - that you will not help her until she recognizes the path she's on and admits there's a better way. That you're missing her but it's your obligation to be the role model and show her how to live her life with integrity and respect. And that, if she's not willing to do that, you'll miss her, but you can't back down on it. Tell them all, because (1) it will get back to her and (2) she'll see that you're serious and stop pushing you.

Plus, telling everyone else helps YOU because they will understand why you're doing what you're doing, and will either side with you or else at least stop bugging you to help her.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> What you need to do now is start tellling everyone who will listen - mother, MIL, friends, DD's friends, everyone - that you will not help her until she recognizes the path she's on and admits there's a better way. That you're missing her but it's your obligation to be the role model and show her how to live her life with integrity and respect. And that, if she's not willing to do that, you'll miss her, but you can't back down on it. Tell them all, because (1) it will get back to her and (2) she'll see that you're serious and stop pushing you.
> 
> Plus, telling everyone else helps YOU because they will understand why you're doing what you're doing, and will either side with you or else at least stop bugging you to help her.


This is exactly what I have been doing and so far everyone agrees with me. My whole family on both sides agrees, my friends who have known our issues over the years agree too. Lauren thinks that I have turned everyone against her, but I have not, I promise you that. It is her who has turned her back on everyone in the family for this guy. There is not one member on either side who has not spoken to Lauren about staying away from him at one time or another. Not one. Everyone sees what he did to her, yet she has chosen to do just that, and ignore every bit of advice we have ALL given her. 

About this bill. It was just the claim from Blue Cross showing what they paid. It looks like they have applied the benefit to her deductible, which we will have to meet. I have $300.00 of her Christmas money still here that my father in law said to use for a medical emergency because he didnt want her to have the cash. When the bill comes in I may go ahead and apply that to it. It's her money, but if I gave her cash he would smoke it up. At least this would help them. 

I will also keep all of this in my records. I have a feeling that this could get ugly because his mom had mentioned something about how they had to pay her $20.00 copay for the doctor and they paid for her medicine. I need to show what we have paid too, even if it is Laurens money.

Someone had said that I can't be held responsible because I didnt sign her in at the hospital. She signed herself in. My husband called Blue Cross and I believe that they cover maternity pretty much 100% after the deductible is met. This one bill alone will almost get us there. I sent them the message to sort of open their eyes to the expense of this whole thing.


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## EleGirl

I was the one who said that if you did not sign you are not responsible to pay. Did the hospital send you the bill? Or is it sent to your daughter at your house?

You might want to take photo copies of all the billing paperwork and mail it to her. Include a short letter stating how much the insurance paid, how much you covered with her xmas money and then how much she owes if she owes anything else along the way. Make sure she knows how much of your own $$ you put out if any.

So his mom is complaining about paying $20 co-pay? Seems like her son should be paying it.. it's his baby after all.

If you want to shut his mother up send her the $20 if there is any of Lauren's xmas $$ left over. And of course let Lauren know that the $20 was reinbursed so that it cannot be used against her.

This woman helps to keep your daughter away from her family and then complains that it's costing her $$? What an idiot!!


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## d4life

EleGirl said:


> I was the one who said that if you did not sign you are not responsible to pay. Did the hospital send you the bill? Or is it sent to your daughter at your house?
> 
> You might want to take photo copies of all the billing paperwork and mail it to her. Include a short letter stating how much the insurance paid, how much you covered with her xmas money and then how much she owes if she owes anything else along the way. Make sure she knows how much of your own $$ you put out if any.
> 
> So his mom is complaining about paying $20 co-pay? Seems like her son should be paying it.. it's his baby after all.
> 
> If you want to shut his mother up send her the $20 if there is any of Lauren's xmas $$ left over. And of course let Lauren know that the $20 was reinbursed so that it cannot be used against her.
> 
> This woman helps to keep your daughter away from her family and then complains that it's costing her $$? What an idiot!!



I agree! Lauren said that they are living pay check to paycheck so that may be why she told me that, thinking I would pay her back. Not going to happen. She allowed this mess to happen under her roof so she can deal with it. I flat out told her the day that she called me that the reason they are there is because they knew that mess would not be accepted in my home. She allowed it, now look what we have.:scratchhead:

The notice came in the mail from b/c in my husbands name, I guess because our policy is in his name. I should get the bill pretty soon though and that should come in her name, but I am not sure. 

I sent that text way earlier in the day and I have yet to hear from them. I am sure they are sitting around thinking she would be better off on Medicaid so it won't cost her anything, but she does not qualify because she is cover with us.

The kids do not have the money for this at all, and I really don't know how they are going to do this. My mom said that there are a few programs that she could apply for that would help her like wic or something that would help with formula I think. She said that there is one that will help with childcare too. I never knew about these things. No wonder people get into the system. They are getting a free ride.  Anyway, I have to tell Lauren to check on these things, but chances are she won't do I until its to late. 

So, I have made it through this day with no word from her. It was actually a very peaceful day.


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## 827Aug

d4life said:


> I sent that text way earlier in the day and I have yet to hear from them. I am sure they are sitting around thinking she would be better off on Medicaid so it won't cost her anything, but she does not qualify because she is cover with us.


Actually she probably would be covered. She would be in my state. Medicaid would be secondary insurance. There's a chance it could be retroactive back to the beginning of pregnancy.

If you signed nothing at the hospital, you are not responsible for her bill. The bill will go to the address she gave them at time of sign-in.


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## turnera

DD22's two friends have had babies, completely paid for by the government, down to the car seat! They get debit cards for all groceries, all doctors are paid for, free diapers...it's disgusting what this country has come to.


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## d4life

827Aug said:


> Actually she probably would be covered. She would be in my state. Medicaid would be secondary insurance. There's a chance it could be retroactive back to the beginning of pregnancy.
> 
> If you signed nothing at the hospital, you are not responsible for her bill. The bill will go to the address she gave them at time of sign-in.


I'm sure she gave them our address. 



turnera said:


> DD22's two friends have had babies, completely paid for by the government, down to the car seat! They get debit cards for all groceries, all doctors are paid for, free diapers...it's disgusting what this country has come to.


Yes, it's crazy what all they can get, which is why so many people on welfare keep having children.  My husband is a federal employee and he sees a LOT, which is why this is even more embarrassing for us. I never in a million years thought that one of my children would need assistance like that.  If she had listened to us this would not be happening right now.

I guess they are really no longer speaking to us. I have not heard anything, no response from two text messages now. I will not try again until Monday because she needs to get her license renewed Tuesday. 

I know that she will put getting the assistance off until its to late. Does anyone have any experience with any of this. We need to get her as much help as she can get. Right now she is only working 20 hours a week, and he is not working. Great huh? 

I know God has a plan and I accept that, but sometimes I wonder what I ever did to deserve the stress this child has put us through.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> I guess they are really no longer speaking to us. I have not heard anything, no response from two text messages now. I will not try again until Monday because she needs to get her license renewed Tuesday.


What the hell? Why the hell is that YOUR PROBLEM?



d4life said:


> I know that she will put getting the assistance off until its to late. Does anyone have any experience with any of this. We need to get her as much help as she can get.


STOP IT!

This is NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

Slap your hand for me!

You know, I can sense you wobbling, in the way you write. I saw this coming days ago - you coming up with every reason possible for you to HAVE to break your silence. I could tell you are THIS.CLOSE to calling her and begging her to forgive you for being so mean. Right where she wants you. You sound like a betrayed spouse, d4, desperate to keep them coming back.

Have some faith in us, ok? Some faith in everyone ELSE you know, who all tell you the same thing. She's an adult. Let HER deal with the issue of having to scramble to get her license back. If nothing else, it will make her realize how much you actually DO do for her.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> sometimes I wonder what I ever did to deserve the stress this child has put us through.


She hasn't put you through any stress, d4. YOU have. All you had to do was man up and be the adult and start letting her experience her own consequences, and stop TAKING ON her guilt trip.

When MY DD22 tries to guilt me and blame me or say she won't do such and such, do you know what I do?

I laugh at her.

She hated that.

It's only happened a couple of times, because she learned REAL QUICK that it didn't work. Today, she's the most honorable, dependable person on earth. I have to MAKE her spend $50/month on herself when she's away for college, because she knows it's coming out of my pocket.

Your daughter only does these things because they work on you. Wanna stop having stress? LET IT GO and let her figure out her own mess.


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## d4life

I hear what you are saying but the help is not for her, it's for the baby. My FIL and my parents are both telling us that she needs to get this help, and we agree. So you think it's best to not say anything about it? Would it be best to talk to his mom? All I know is that she needs this help. I'm afraid that if nothing is done she will not get the help that she is going to need, and while I know it's her problem it also will effect the baby.

While I don't support what she is doing, and I in fact hate what she has done, there is an innocent child in this mess that she has made now. A child that I want to know and love. Everything I see now is about babies, and grand babies and its starting to really get to me. A woman I know just posted pictures of her new grandchild today. I'm just afraid, this is not easy at all. It sucks! It would be so much easier with out the baby in the picture.


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## EleGirl

How do you think she is eating right now? She and he are most likely already on food stampe (or EBT). When she sees the doctor and in the hospital they probably told her about WIC already. 

Have no doubt that the guy and his mother are already telling her how to use the system.

You need to make a decision right now. Either you embrace her and her boyfriend as your new best friends (who you will be supporting) or you need to "woman up" and stick to your tough love.

She's not contacting you because she is PUNISHING YOU. Yep that's how manipulators work. They use punishments and rewards to get what they want. 

You do not need to help her get into the system. You do not even know how to the system works. Have do doubt that her bf and his friends know how it works.


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## d4life

I hope you all are right. My only problem is I am going to look like an evil woman who cares nothing about my child and grandchild. Everyone in out tiny community will know how awful I am. I already feel like I am getting looks.


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## EleGirl

d4life said:


> I hope you all are right. My only problem is I am going to look like an evil woman who cares nothing about my child and grandchild. Everyone in out tiny community will know how awful I am. I already feel like I am getting looks.


Are you the only one in your community who thinks that this guy and his mother are a problem? 

Is everyone else dopers like they are?

Do you know these people who are giving you the looks?

Are you imagining that they are giving you the looks?


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## d4life

EleGirl said:


> Are you the only one in your community who thinks that this guy and his mother are a problem?
> 
> Is everyone else dopers like they are?
> 
> Do you know these people who are giving you the looks?
> 
> Are you imagining that they are giving you the looks?


Of course I am not the only one who thinks this, but most of my friends now, or people that I am around more now, dont really know the story behind all of this. Their children are my younger children's ages. They just see that I have an older daughter with issues and now all of this has happened and I feel like I am being judged. I may just be thinking all of this, but it makes me wonder. So far everyone has been supportive, but I know how these people are. 

There is one lady who was taking a class at the college with my daughter and we have been friends for a while. Lauren had her completely snowed. She told me recently that she was even on Laurens side of the whole thing, then she saw them together and had a bad vibe about him. Her daughter did too. She said something was just weird about it. She saw that he was covered in tattoos and just the way he carried himself looked bad. Now she sees what I am talking about. She has seen Lauren quit school and give up everything, and now she knows about the baby. She thinks she is making a huge mistake too.

Lauren is a beautiful girl. She's smart and could do anything she wanted to do but this guy ruined her self esteem years ago. The problem is that she really does think she loves him, and she may. She sees us as the evil parents because we dont accept who she is with. She is to blind to see why we feel the way we do, though we have preached it for many years. She thinks we are trying to control her, and that we are using the car & phone to get to her like a bribe to get her away from Matt. This is why she is so angry with us.


----------



## Corpuswife

Keep your head held high! You know your family better than any stranger/acquaintance in your town. 

You know the potential that your daughter has and the opportunities that she has been given. 

Do not succumb to mom-guilt. The highest form of guilt in the land. Fathers don't have it to near the severity if at all. We are somehow harnessed with this "blessing."

We can love our children unconditionally in all of their glory. We do not have to live their adult life for them or help them to become better people or help them to destroy their life.. They make their choices. We have very little control. 

Set your boundaries and love her. Do not succumb to manipulation via anger or sweet talk.


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## d4life

I am trying. Right now all I see before me is my daughter giving birth and me not allowed to be there over a car. I see this trashy family enjoying what should be an exciting time for me too. I'm afraid I will miss all of that.

I am still going to do what you all advise, because I cant take the risk of him destroying my family here too if he does something stupid in it and we are held accountable some how. I can't do that. My husband and I both agree on that. 

I just hope and pray that she wises up soon. I just dont look for that to happen though.


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## EleGirl

If it was not the car, she would be trying to produce guilt in you with something else... like maybe that you should give her money now that she is pregnant.


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## d4life

EleGirl said:


> If it was not the car, she would be trying to produce guilt in you with something else... like maybe that you should give her money now that she is pregnant.


It's funny that you said this because I had not heard from her until today at lunch. I was out of town shopping with my children and she called wanting me to get her medicine and something for her to eat. Really? On one hand I was happy that she called, until she told me that she had tried her friends first and couldnt get anyone. I guess I was her last resort. She said that she was alone and there was nothing there to eat. I guess she found something because I didnt hear from her again.

While she was on the phone she got a couple of digs in at me. One was that she hated to even call because she knew we would not help her. She said we didnt love her. Whatever.


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## d4life

Tonight my husband broke down and cried. In our 23 years of marriage I can count on one hand how many times I have seen him cry. He is really taking this hard and he said he blames himself. I tried to reassure him that we have done all that we can do, and I honestly believe that. These are choices that she is making.

This happened at the dinner table. My daughter Lindsey was sitting across from him and he looked straight at her and told her what he expected from her. He talked for a few minutes and I really think it hit home with her. She adores her daddy, and she is on the right track. She's a great kid. I have never had a minutes trouble out of her, ever. Knock on wood. 

For a minute I had a flashback to my daddy telling me the same things. All I know is that I never wanted to let him down. In some way I am thankful that he is not here to see the mess Lauren is in. I think he would have been very disappointed in her, and probably in me too for not having patience with her. 

My husband was telling me that he had an aunt with a mental illness. I have never really thought about Lauren having one but after his mom said what she did about busing up in the house and cussing and fighting with Matt about who's car was in his driveway I was just shocked. She has outburst at home, but I thought she had a short temper. After doing a quiz on mental illness one day, Lauren's showed that she has traits of having Histrionic personality Disorder. 

Histrionic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This scared the crap out of me because I saw that that woman who killed that man by stabbing him 27 times and shot him in the head showed signs of the same thing. Looking at this link though, Lauren does show several signs of it. Like most on the list, except she does not dress flashy at all. She dresses normal, jeans and a cute top, nothing flashy. 

I could be looking for an excuse or something to blame for this whole mess. I really don't know.


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## Bellavista

D4life, I really feel for your family. Please don't let guilt overwhelm you. Our son who is causing us grief is apsergrrs and at one stage was diagnosed with schizophrenia. My grandmother was schizophrenic so it seemed this could be a possibility, but that diagnosis has now been revoked. He is on aantidepressants as well as the illicit drugs and drink.
Yes, hubby and I both feel guilt over him and they he has turned out, but we have 4 other kids who do not cause anywhere as much trouble between them, so I have to believe that my son makes his own choices and he is responsible for them, not us.
It is freaking hard not to step in and rescue them, but enabling the behaviour that got your daughter in the place she is will only prolong the agony.
I really think you need to talk to an impartial party about this, because it it too hard when you are inthe situation to see what is happening and make the right choices. We can dole out advice, but we cannot get a handle on the family dynamics from behind a screen.


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## d4life

Bellavista said:


> D4life, I really feel for your family. Please don't let guilt overwhelm you. Our son who is causing us grief is apsergrrs and at one stage was diagnosed with schizophrenia. My grandmother was schizophrenic so it seemed this could be a possibility, but that diagnosis has now been revoked. He is on aantidepressants as well as the illicit drugs and drink.
> Yes, hubby and I both feel guilt over him and they he has turned out, but we have 4 other kids who do not cause anywhere as much trouble between them, so I have to believe that my son makes his own choices and he is responsible for them, not us.
> It is freaking hard not to step in and rescue them, but enabling the behaviour that got your daughter in the place she is will only prolong the agony.
> I really think you need to talk to an impartial party about this, because it it too hard when you are inthe situation to see what is happening and make the right choices. We can dole out advice, but we cannot get a handle on the family dynamics from behind a screen.


Yes, I agree. After seeing my husband tonight tear up like that a couple of times, I know that we need to get some help. He tends to keep his feelings inside so it may help him to talk to someone too. He told me he just had to work through it. I get it, and he will, but it's hard to watch your daughter make such a huge mistake. 

When she was little she was a daddy's girl. I just don't know what happened over the years. I am still pointing my finger at Matt. If he had never come into the picture I think she would have been fine.


----------



## Bellavista

I know how you feel about the b/f. Our son was 17 when he met a psycho girl. He changed overnight when they started going out. By the time he was 18 they had a baby.
I have worked hard to understand that while this girl started him down the wrong path, he CHOSE to follow her. 

Our eldest daughter had a loser b/f, but in the last 2 months or so he has taken on a job he loves and is doing well. Slowly I am seeing this b/f become a productive person. It can happen.


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## EleGirl

Your daughter might very well have mental health issues. It's not uncommon for those who make the types of choices she is making right now.

Unfortunately your laws do not allow a caring family to do anything to help a person whose mental illness is driving them to risky behaviors. 

Getting yourself and your husband to counseling is a very good idea. The two of you have to keep yourselves together for your other children. Get all the help you can.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> I hope you all are right. My only problem is I am going to look like an evil woman who cares nothing about my child and grandchild. Everyone in out tiny community will know how awful I am. I already feel like I am getting looks.


 So...this isn't about what's best for your daughter, but what's best for you?


----------



## turnera

d4life said:


> I hear what you are saying but the help is not for her, it's for the baby. My FIL and my parents are both telling us that she needs to get this help, and we agree. So you think it's best to not say anything about it? Would it be best to talk to his mom? All I know is that she needs this help. I'm afraid that if nothing is done she will not get the help that she is going to need, and while I know it's her problem it also will effect the baby.


Is she mentally handicapped? No? Then she has the mental capacity to FIGURE IT OUT. Maybe if you backed away and LET her figure things out, she would surprise you.


----------



## turnera

d4life said:


> I am trying. Right now all I see before me is my daughter giving birth and me not allowed to be there over a car. I see this trashy family enjoying what should be an exciting time for me too. I'm afraid I will miss all of that.


Again, this is turning out to be about YOU, not what's best for your daughter. Are you going to be the adult and do what's needed for her growth and learning, and sacrifice (as parents should and do)? Or are you going to take the easy route that gives YOU the instant gratification
of getting to be 'along for the ride' of the pregnancy, despite what you are doing TO her for her long-term life?


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## EleGirl

d4life, 

I've been thinking about the car issue. You said that your mother gave it to you for your daughter. 

Whose name is on the title? Your mother's? yours? Your daughter's?

It sounds like it was a gift for your daughter. If that’s the case maybe it really is your daughter’s property?

Just wondering about this.


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## d4life

EleGirl said:


> d4life,
> 
> I've been thinking about the car issue. You said that your mother gave it to you for your daughter.
> 
> Whose name is on the title? Your mother's? yours? Your daughter's?
> 
> It sounds like it was a gift for your daughter. If that’s the case maybe it really is your daughter’s property?
> 
> Just wondering about this.


 It was given to me really for Lauren, and we put the title in my name. It was my inheritance from when my granddaddy passed away. My sister was given cash of equal amount of the value of the car at the same time. I have always felt it was mine (my inheritance), but I had all intentions of signing the car over to her when she turns 21, and is more stable and can get ins in her own name. Right now I carry her on our ins. on a less expensive car that we own so it would be cheaper each month. (advice from our agent) When she first got it she didnt even work. She has only paid about 6 months or so worth of Ins. in the past four years. Looking back, I was an idiot.

Not only this, but we have paid for every single car repair, tires, oil changes, most of the gas and tags and everything since we have owned the car. I don't feel guilty at all for holding the car back for that reason. I only feel guilty because I know she could use it.


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## EleGirl

d4life said:


> It was given to me really for Lauren, and we put the title in my name. It was my inheritance from when my granddaddy passed away. My sister was given cash of equal amount of the value of the car at the same time. I have always felt it was mine (my inheritance), but I had all intentions of signing the car over to her when she turns 21, and is more stable and can get ins in her own name. Right now I carry her on our ins. on a less expensive car that we own so it would be cheaper each month. (advice from our agent) When she first got it she didnt even work. She has only paid about 6 months or so worth of Ins. in the past four years. Looking back, I was an idiot.
> 
> Not only this, but we have paid for every single car repair, tires, oil changes, most of the gas and tags and everything since we have owned the car. I don't feel guilty at all for holding the car back for that reason. I only feel guilty because I know she could use it.


Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten about the inheritance. The car is yours.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> So...this isn't about what's best for your daughter, but what's best for you?





turnera said:


> Is she mentally handicapped? No? Then she has the mental capacity to FIGURE IT OUT. Maybe if you backed away and LET her figure things out, she would surprise you.


No, it's not about me although I do want to be there when the baby is born. I really dont think that is shocking because I would think most people would want to be there.  It's just hard for me because I always pictured this time in my life to be fun and exciting, but that's not what is happening, it's the opposite and it's hard to come to terms with. That doesnt mean that this is all about me though. I want what is best for her. I see a lifetime of hurt for her if she continues on with this guy. 

I am also getting pressure from my mom to try to smooth things over and I have had to explain to her several times why we are doing this. She is still so tender hearted, even though she knows deep down that we are doing the right thing. 

I think your advice of backing off and letting her figure it out is the best advice that I have had, and this is what my husbands dad and everyone is saying too. This is where we are right now. I just hope and pray that she can get it together.

My mom has said many, many times over the years that no matter how old your children are, you still worry about them. I have found this to be so very true.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> That doesnt mean that this is all about me though. I want what is best for her. I see a lifetime of hurt for her if she continues on with this guy.


Just making sure you aren't going to cave, just so you can be part of the pregnancy.



d4life said:


> I am also getting pressure from my mom to try to smooth things over


My dad married an evil woman. She hated my H because he was the only person strong enough to stand up to her. She turned him into CPS for child endangerment (stuff she made up and got her church friends (who we'd never met) to sign off on). Once I figured out she did it, I told DD6's school that she and my dad could no longer pick her up from school. I tried to spare him what his wife had done, but he ended up blaming ME! So I told him the truth, that it was his wife who did it all. He refused to believe me. We parted ways, because he wouldn't admit it (and of course SHE would never admit it).

Anyway, for the next couple of years, every time I was around my brother, the ultimate ass-kisser (who had forever sought dad's love and never got it), he would rag on me about how I needed to apologize to my dad! I needed to apologize to HIM for daring to blame his WIFE for what she DID! According to my brother, it was MY duty to swallow my feelings and keep the peace. I refused.

All it did was teach me that each of us sees a situation in our own filter, our own needs, our own weaknesses. Doesn't make any of us right over the other. So understand that your mom needs to say what she needs to say. But in the end, this has to be YOUR decision.


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## Bellavista

d4life said:


> My mom has said many, many times over the years that no matter how old your children are, you still worry about them. I have found this to be so very true.


OMG and how true this statement is. My mother still rings me to tell me all the worry about my brother & he is 40.
Maybe if I had known this, I might have had fewer children...

No not really.


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## d4life

Today was a rough day. Lauren is now completely ignoring all contact from me. She didn't respond to my mothers message on a pm on Facebook either. She said that she is not ever going to talk to us until..... You guess it. 

My step dad sent $100. For her. For Christmas. She never came to get it. Then we decided we would get her a jacket, but never got one so I have the cash here. Once we found out about the baby we all decided that the money wouldo towards her deductible. ($350) today he called me and said that he has been thinking, and maybe I should give her the cash, yes call her and get the cash to her.  

We have had this talk before. The money will go to drugs and gas for the bf, not to Lauren. I am in a tough spot because I want to keep the peace with everyone so I sent Lauren a message. Of course she is not responding to it. Later in the afternoon I sent him a message to his phone and said the same thing, but if I didn't hear a response it would go to the deductible. I never heard a word from either of them. 

I guess that settles that. At the same time I'm really mad because she is doing this. My husband said its her way of controlling me.  it's her way or the highway.  

Going through this has really tested me. I'm not this strong.


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## EleGirl

Yes she is controlling you. She knows you well enough to know what is going on in your head.

Somehow you need to stop this. Do a 180. In the future tell people to contact her directly, you don't want to be the middle 'man'


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## turnera

Yes, you ARE this strong. A mother PROTECTS her child and you KNOW that giving in is HARMING her. So you will remain strong. Some day, maybe not this month or this year, she will get out of that situation, realize you were right, and extend some real feelers. IIWY, I would sell the car and put the money in a college fund account. If she never comes to her senses, you'll at least have something to give the baby for a better future.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> Yes, you ARE this strong. A mother PROTECTS her child and you KNOW that giving in is HARMING her. So you will remain strong. Some day, maybe not this month or this year, she will get out of that situation, realize you were right, and extend some real feelers. IIWY, I would sell the car and put the money in a college fund account. If she never comes to her senses, you'll at least have something to give the baby for a better future.


I'm afraid that if I did that she would never , ever forgive me for it. Even years later when she sees that we were right. For now I am just going to keep it here. I have another daughter about to get her permit in two months, she can drive it until things change.

I have been going to a Christian women's group at our church, and we are studying about people who have hurt you and forgiveness. Then at church we have talked about wing responsible for yourself, and how God can not be munipulated, and you should not either. I can't tell you how confused I am right now trying to combine these two lessons. 

In the forgiveness class, it asked if you wish ill will on the one who has hurt you? I don't do this, but I certainly do want her to see what we have been saying in order to open her eyes. I am having a real hard time working through all of this. I want to make sure that I am doing the Christian thing here. It's hard because I am so mad, hurt and just disgusted by this whole thing.


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## turnera

Look at it this way. This is just another stage of you wearing your teaching hat with her. Just like you taught her not to hit or lie or steal, you are teaching her that when you make bad choices you get consequences -so to avoid the consequences, consider not doing the bad choices. Then you leave it up to her to 'get it.' 

When I was raising DD22, I'd tell her up front what her consequences for ABC would be, and let her loose. If she did ABC, she just got the consequences - no emotion involved, just part of the teaching process. That's your job. Your job is NOT to mother-hen her so much that she never has to own her own actions. That's not being a good mother, and you know it. No different than that other woman on here who lets her 14 year old daughter have sex in her house, so she doesn't go somewhere else and do it. And now the daughter thinks she is a lesbian. She's had no direction, so she SEES no direction.


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## turnera

Regarding forgiveness: Do you think forgiveness is a good thing if (1) the person continues to do the harmful thing and (2) isn't AWARE that they've done something to deserve forgiveness? Or do you think its place is AFTER the person has seen the light? And know that when I say forgiveness in this sense I'm talking about stopping what you're doing and letting her have what she wants. You can forgive her in your HEART yet still not give in to her tantrums.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> Regarding forgiveness: Do you think forgiveness is a good thing if (1) the person continues to do the harmful thing and (2) isn't AWARE that they've done something to deserve forgiveness? Or do you think its place is AFTER the person has seen the light? And know that when I say forgiveness in this sense I'm talking about stopping what you're doing and letting her have what she wants. You can forgive her in your HEART yet still not give in to her tantrums.


You are right. I am just having a weak moment. The ball is in her court now since she is no longer speaking to us. She knows how we feel and that's all I can do.

My mother was saying that she might could see things differently if he would man up and come to us and say that loved her and that he was going to get his act together and try his best to make this work for them and the baby. I dont ever see that happening.

Mom also said that maybe we should sit down with them and discuss what their plan was. I dont see this happening either, as much as I would like to know. 

As far as I know, he is in week 8 or 9 now, I lost track, and he still has no job. Her friend is taking her to and from work now so he doesnt have to worry about that either. I just dont understand this.  

She told me that I am not the mother that I was, and that some B!*(# has taken my place. Well, that goes both ways here. She is not the daughter that I raised. It breaks my heart every single day to think that she would turn her back on a family, and extended family, who loves her for this guy.


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## turnera

DD22 was supposed to go out of town this Saturday with a friend from college, who recently met a boy and has been all googly eyes over him, kwim? Can't spend a minute apart from him. This girl started making noises like she was going to bring him WITH her, on her trip with DD22! Cos, you know, she can't BARE to be apart from him for 8 hours. Well, DD told her sorry, but this was supposed to be a girl's weekend, and she didn't want him to come. (this is HUGE for my DD, who's had friend issues all her life and it's hard to find good friends; she usually lets them walk all over her) Well, of course, today, the girl cancels the plans, because her lover boy can't come. DD is heartbroken.


----------



## d4life

turnera said:


> DD22 was supposed to go out of town this Saturday with a friend from college, who recently met a boy and has been all googly eyes over him, kwim? Can't spend a minute apart from him. This girl started making noises like she was going to bring him WITH her, on her trip with DD22! Cos, you know, she can't BARE to be apart from him for 8 hours. Well, DD told her sorry, but this was supposed to be a girl's weekend, and she didn't want him to come. (this is HUGE for my DD, who's had friend issues all her life and it's hard to find good friends; she usually lets them walk all over her) Well, of course, today, the girl cancels the plans, because her lover boy can't come. DD is heartbroken.


Aww, I am so sorry for your DD. Good friends are few and far between, and it seems that when the boys get involved they always put the boys needs over their friends. 

I always told my girls that their friend must be insecure in the relationship if they cant go a day without being with them. I think time apart makes thing better and that girls need a healthy balance with friends and their boyfriends at that age. You got the rest of your life to be stuck with the guy. :rofl: It still hurts when it happens though.


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## Bellavista

d4life, I can't give you advice, but I will give you empathy. ((hug))


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## d4life

Bellavista said:


> d4life, I can't give you advice, but I will give you empathy. ((hug))


Thank you so very much!


----------



## Corpuswife

d4life....she will come around. Once she has her own child and is looking for emotional support and help, she will look at her BF. If he isn't there then she will need to reevaluate. Once the babies come, the perspective changes!


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## Boundry

You can not change others, even your children. You can only change your way to get on with your daughter.. Sometimes, in fact, lots of times, there is no solution to a trouble.. You have to wait.. Until she changes first and ask help from you. And then you could do something..


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## Boundry

Do not worry too much. It cann't do any help. 

"Repent and Rest, Quiet and Trust"


----------



## d4life

Thank you! You are so right. It's just hard to do, but after tonight it became a little easier. 


My husband tried to contact her about her taxes. She responded to him only to say that she will have Matt's sister do them. Fine. My husband was mad at the wording she used so I tried to send her a message saying that dad was only trying to help. She send this long winded message back as to why she does not care, and she told me to stop tring to contact her. My actions speak louder than words, and so on. 

So, I guess at this point we wait, and I guess that could be forever.  I really don't know what else to do right now except pray for both of them. This whole thing makes me so tired, yet I can't sleep at night.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> My husband tried to contact her about her taxes. She responded to him only to say that she will have Matt's sister do them. Fine. My husband was mad at the wording she used so I tried to send her a message saying that dad was only trying to help.


STOP IT!

This is YOU trying to worm your way back into her life. You're grasping at ANY excuse to contact her. You're like a betrayed spouse chasing after your wayward spouse. 

How is she to ever respect you if you chase after her like this?

What purpose on earth was there for you to contact HER? None. It was your HUSBAND you should have been attending to, not the aggressor who made him feel that way. This is not attractive, d4.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> STOP IT!
> 
> This is YOU trying to worm your way back into her life. You're grasping at ANY excuse to contact her. You're like a betrayed spouse chasing after your wayward spouse.
> 
> How is she to ever respect you if you chase after her like this?
> 
> What purpose on earth was there for you to contact HER? None. It was your HUSBAND you should have been attending to, not the aggressor who made him feel that way. This is not attractive, d4.


It was more of us loosing about a $1000 by not being able to claim her for last year on our taxes after we supported her until nov. I was trying to support him by trying to get through to her to make sure what her plan was. Nothing more. Two of her tax forms were mailed to us and they will sit here until she asks for them. I am done for real this time because of the way she spoke to me.

I told her in my response that she has made the difficult decisions that we have had to make a little easier for us. My husband and I talked about everything, and he had I no longer feel guilty for doing what we have done. She really crossed the line in her response to me. It was very cold and uncalled for. 

I will continue to love her from a distance, but I will no longer live with the pain that she has cause in me. I just can't. If anything, this has helped me see that we are doing the right thing here, just when I was feeling weak. 

I feel like I am on a roller coaster.


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## EleGirl

d4life said:


> It was more of us loosing about a $1000 by not being able to claim her for last year on our taxes after we supported her until nov. I was trying to support him by trying to get through to her to make sure what her plan was. Nothing more. Two of her tax forms were mailed to us and they will sit here until she asks for them. I am done for real this time because of the way she spoke to me.
> 
> I told her in my response that she has made the difficult decisions that we have had to make a little easier for us. My husband and I talked about everything, and he had I no longer feel guilty for doing what we have done. She really crossed the line in her response to me. It was very cold and uncalled for.
> 
> I will continue to love her from a distance, but I will no longer live with the pain that she has cause in me. I just can't. If anything, this has helped me see that we are doing the right thing here, just when I was feeling weak.
> 
> I feel like I am on a roller coaster.


I think that you can still claim her on your taxes...


----------------------------
Residency Test 

To meet this test, your child must have lived with you for more than half the year. 
----------------------------

Publication 501 (2012), Exemptions, Standard Deduction, and Filing Information


----------



## whatslovegottodowithit?

Read your entire thread and sorry you're in a bad situation. I have nothing to offer (experience with the circumstances) but would like to wish you Good Luck and stay strong! Protect your kids from this toxic sibling and the next relative, friend, etc... that advises you to give her money, make contact, or whatever, tell them to do it themselves!!! Easier said then done, most difficult dcisions are, just stay the current course.

Not to sound harsh or bring anything up, but have you considered your daughter using drugs while carrying a child? Second-hand smoke? That being the case, perhaps child services can force a drug test on her or the baby while in the hospital without her consent??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You can still claim her on your taxes. If she ever gets around to doing HER taxes, she'll have to deal with it.


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## d4life

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> Read your entire thread and sorry you're in a bad situation. I have nothing to offer (experience with the circumstances) but would like to wish you Good Luck and stay strong! Protect your kids from this toxic sibling and the next relative, friend, etc... that advises you to give her money, make contact, or whatever, tell them to do it themselves!!! Easier said then done, most difficult dcisions are, just stay the current course.
> 
> Not to sound harsh or bring anything up, but have you considered your daughter using drugs while carrying a child? Second-hand smoke? That being the case, perhaps child services can force a drug test on her or the baby while in the hospital without her consent??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. I am not going to contact her anymore for us or anyone else. I will be happy to give anyone her number or there is facebook, but I will not do it anymore. My 14 year old is telling me the same thing.


I have thought about the drug thing and I told her all about that when she was in the hospital. I hope she is doing the right thing, but I have no idea. I think is was pot that she was smoking, and I know that she was smoking cigarettes too but the last time I mentioned anything about this she said that she had not smoked anything. She has been very sick and I think that may be why. 



turnera said:


> You can still claim her on your taxes. If she ever gets around to doing HER taxes, she'll have to deal with it.


My husband wont do it. He does not want any problems at all with our taxes. He told her that he would not claim her so we are letting it go. Watch her not even file.


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## 827Aug

Your daughter is over 18, not a student, and did not live with you more than half of the year, correct? There's a good chance she cannot be claimed as your dependent. Here's a link for the full eligibility tests.Publication 501 (2012), Exemptions, Standard Deduction, and Filing Information


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## d4life

827Aug said:


> Your daughter is over 18, not a student, and did not live with you more than half of the year, correct? There's a good chance she cannot be claimed as your dependent. Here's a link for the full eligibility tests.Publication 501 (2012), Exemptions, Standard Deduction, and Filing Information


Thank you for your help. We are not going to claim her, but she did live with us for most of the year, off and on. Her stuff was here but she was staying where ever she could crash several times a week. She came here to eat, shower, get money and to get things ready for school. She was a full time student, I have the papers from the college, even though she ended up dropping out with only two weeks left in the semester.  Legally we could claim her, but we are not going to since she said she would file on her own.


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## d4life

We heard from Lauren today. My husband had a message from her on Facebook saying that she needs help with her taxes. Apparently his sister was going to do them but she didn't know about the baby and when she found out she went ballistic. She told Lauren and Matt off basically saying everything we all have said really. I was shocked in a way. Anyway, my husband sent her a message saying that he would help her if she got her W-2 from her current job to him. 

A few ours later I got a phone call. Her voice was sweet, she said she needed to talk to me. She said that she was at work with no money and she was starving, she said she had been sick and didn't have anything on her stomach. I told her that her license had come today and that I could run them to her and get her a little cash for tonight. 

She talked for a minute and I asked her if he had found a job, and he has not. She said that she works and gives him cash for gas and he looks, but he has not found anything in the past two months of looking, I told her that he must not be looking very hard. He could rake leaves if he had to but he had to find a job.  I could tell in her voice that she knew what I was saying. Normally she defends him to the end of the earth, but not this time. I don't know what, if anything has changed.

It's really funny because just today I cleaned her room for the first time in forever. I had just shut that room off and avoided it. I looked at some of her things and teared up because this is not what I wanted at all. It's just one big ole mess, a bad dream that I wish I could wake up from. I have also felt so guilty for doing her the way that we have, but I know we are trying to do the right thing. I still believe that.

Please don't bash me for us helping with her taxes or taking her $10.00 tonight. She is still my daughter, and I need to have her know that we will always be here for her, and we will help her, but we will not finance this mess. We can guide her, but she is an adult now and she has to live with the choices that she has made.

When my son ran the cash and her license in to her at work, I sat in the car. I could see her, but I didn't want to go in. We waved through the glass, but that was it. When my son got back into the car he said that she told him that she has an appointment tomorrow to hear the baby's heartbeat for the first time. 

I have lost track as to how many weeks she is now. I could look back to the day I posted it I guess, but I have not had a chance. I told my husband that I felt so guilty because I am still not excited about this baby at all. I dread what the future holds at this point. I was a little shocked to hear him say he felt the same way. He is so tender hearted, I just knew I would feel like the evil one. I don't know when these feelings will ever change. I know it's an innocent child, but right now I see it as a total mistake, and a tie to evil and all of my worst fears for ever. How do I get past that? 

I have poured myself into church, but I have been questioning a lot lately instead of trusting in Him. It seems like it has been one thing after another.  

I feel better tonight after hearing from Lauren, so I can thank God for that. I'm trying my best to take this one day at a time, and try to do the right thing each day. I still get mad as hell, but my anger is beginning to tapper off somewhat. 

I know that God has a plan for us, but sometimes I wonder how in this world all of this is going to turn out okay. I want to do the right thing and not question weather or not it's the right thing or not. I don't want to make anymore mistakes. It's tough.


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## Bellavista

I do know how you feel about the baby, I felt the same about our son's baby. Even though our granddaughter is 6 now, I still find it hard to allow myself to become very attached to her. At any moment her mother may take off with another guy and remove her from our lives. As it is, I have not seen her since before Christmas as her mother is not answering my calls. Our son & the mother have broken up.

I won't give you a hard time for giving her money, you did what you had to do to prevent your daughter from going hungry & who knows, maybe she will start to see the light about this boy, especially when people other than yourselves start to tell her what is what.

I think when our son's girlfriend turned up pregnant when they were 18 & 17, it signalled the downturn of my spiritual life, I know I have not been the same since then in regards to my church attendance or commitment. Bit sad really.

Hang in there D4life with your hubby. Talk to each other about how you are feeling. That is something we didn't do, we talked about the situation, but not how it was affecting us emotionally. Not until recently anyway.


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## d4life

Bellavista said:


> I do know how you feel about the baby, I felt the same about our son's baby. Even though our granddaughter is 6 now, I still find it hard to allow myself to become very attached to her. At any moment her mother may take off with another guy and remove her from our lives. As it is, I have not seen her since before Christmas as her mother is not answering my calls. Our son & the mother have broken up.
> 
> I won't give you a hard time for giving her money, you did what you had to do to prevent your daughter from going hungry & who knows, maybe she will start to see the light about this boy, especially when people other than yourselves start to tell her what is what.
> 
> I think when our son's girlfriend turned up pregnant when they were 18 & 17, it signalled the downturn of my spiritual life, I know I have not been the same since then in regards to my church attendance or commitment. Bit sad really.
> 
> Hang in there D4life with your hubby. Talk to each other about how you are feeling. That is something we didn't do, we talked about the situation, but not how it was affecting us emotionally. Not until recently anyway.


Thank you for understanding. I'm sorry that you have had a hard time too with this kind of thing. I don't think that they believe that it will effect us the way it does. They are only thinking of themselves I guess. Something this big effects the whole family. It changes our hopes and dreams and everything else. It also puts us in a bad spot. 

I always said I was going to be the very best grandmother ever. I plan on taking them to Disney World and all kinds of places and such. I want to be there like my grandmother was for me. I'm just not to that point because I know we will be faced with years of drama. I'm afraid I will have to distance myself from all of this. I have my guard up so high because I just don't want her to hurt us again. I hate feeling this way.


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## EleGirl

She's pregnant. Not having food is a very bad thing. She needs to be on assistance if she can get it right now. 

If you gave her $10 for day. Will she have food tomorrow? Next time she says she has not food you might want to go by the grocery store and get her food instead of giving cash. Just a thought.

It sounds like your actions are working. She is now seeing that he's not a reliable person. She's pregnant and probably pretty scared right now.

You might want to call a tough love group and ask their thoughts on what to do when she calls hungry. As them if, since she is pregnant, it would be wise for you to at least make sure she gets some help like food stamps, WIC, etc. If she starts to see good things coming from you and your husband it might be a good thing. But I'm not sure. So ask someone who has more experience in this.

If she turns herself around, she can do fine with a child. She can even get back in school if she wants to. The child is not the end of the world. Her relationship with it's father sort of is close to that.


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## d4life

She said that she gets paid tomorrow so she should be fine. That is unless he takes all of her money again. My husband said he would make her a plate next time, but he didn't get mad at me for taking her a little cash. 

Many people have told her about government assistance programs, including me. What she does with that information is up to her. I can advise her, but she may or may not listen.  To be as smart as she is, she has very little common sense. a

Thank you for being understanding. It has been rough around here.


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## EleGirl

d4life said:


> She said that she gets paid tomorrow so she should be fine. That is unless he takes all of her money again. My husband said he would make her a plate next time, but he didn't get mad at me for taking her a little cash.
> 
> Many people have told her about government assistance programs, including me. What she does with that information is up to her. I can advise her, but she may or may not listen.  To be as smart as she is, she has very little common sense. a
> 
> Thank you for being understanding. It has been rough around here.


Because of the baby, I'd be tempted to pick her up and take her to sign up. 

Here in NM the form for getting "food stamps" (EBT) is on the internet. It probably is for your state as well. This baby could be born with serious health risks if she does not get the nutrition they both need.

I know this is very hard.


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## d4life

I offered to a while back, but then she stopped talking to us. I was really shocked when her license came in the mail today too because I didn't know she actually had them renewed. I was glad that she did. 

I may send her a private message tomorrow and offer again. I feel like I am walking on egg shells with her. I just never know how she is going to be anymore.


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## turnera

I would wait a few days. Email her the link to sign up. That is all. 

What you are doing is working. She still trusts you, but she's 18 and knows everything. You have to let her work through this on her own. She's reaching out in a NICE way now, so let her continue to do that and be 'rewarded.' But DO NOT contact her yourself, other than the link.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> I would wait a few days. Email her the link to sign up. That is all.
> 
> What you are doing is working. She still trusts you, but she's 18 and knows everything. You have to let her work through this on her own. She's reaching out in a NICE way now, so let her continue to do that and be 'rewarded.' But DO NOT contact her yourself, other than the link.


Ok, I will wait a few days and do that. Thank you for all of your help.


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## Anonymous07

d4life said:


> Ok, I will wait a few days and do that. Thank you for all of your help.


I'd send her the link for WIC(women, infants, and children) which helps with food costs. It is done specially for low-income pregnant and new moms. 

Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) | Food and Nutrition Service


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## d4life

Anonymous07 said:


> I'd send her the link for WIC(women, infants, and children) which helps with food costs. It is done specially for low-income pregnant and new moms.
> 
> Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) | Food and Nutrition Service


OK, I just sent it to her. Thank you for the link. 

Well, she went to the Dr today and posted about it on facebook. She sent a pm to my DD but it was addressed to me.  It said "Mom, I went to the Dr......." My DD answered her. She seemed excited, and while I am happy that things look OK, I am just not excited at all about any of this..

I responded from my facebook, but she read it and didnt type anything back. She replied to my DD's again instead. This is sending a red flag to me that he is reading her facebook messages to me. Maybe he will not let her respond. I could be wrong, but thats what it seemed like. 

Oh well, at least from her post I now know a due date. It's Sept. 1st. I guess I have until then to learn to accept this. I have a lot of work to do.


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## turnera

My DD22's birthday was supposed to be 9/1. It became 9/2. Best one ever!


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## d4life

turnera said:


> My DD22's birthday was supposed to be 9/1. It became 9/2. Best one ever!


That's funny! Lauren was due 12/6 but came on 12/9 via c-section because she was breech. Lindsey was the one who gave me trouble. At first they said the due date was Feb. 20th, then Feb. 27th. She was born on March 9.  I think they had my due date off. My son was easy because he was a repeat c-section and born on Dec. 1st. His due date was Dec 6th, same as my due date with Lauren. CrAzY! I got to pick his birthday! 

There are several other girls who graduated with her two years ago who are also pregnant. One was a cheerleader and the baby's father also has another girl pregnant with twins. They are due close to the same time. Nice huh? There are three who come from nice, respectable families like ours who have done the same thing. It just would not be as embarrassing (because she is 20) if it were with someone who loved her and had some kind of future ahead of him. I just dont see it, at all. 
I have been trying to pray for him, as hard as that is.


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## turnera

It's a completely different frame of mind. Have you watched Teen Moms? DD22 has me watch it, and it is an EYE OPENER into how teenage girls see pregnancy.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> It's a completely different frame of mind. Have you watched Teen Moms? DD22 has me watch it, and it is an EYE OPENER into how teenage girls see pregnancy.


Oh yes, I have seen it and it should be a warning on what not to do.

Tonight I just want to scream and I mean it. As if I haven't been hurt enough she told Lindsey that she plans to name the baby after my late daddy if its a boy. Normally it would be an honor, but my dad would roll over in his grave for the way she has done us with this whole thing. He would absolutely never want her to be with a guy like Matt either. OMG I swear she hates me. She knows how much I loved my dad, and what a daddy's girl I was. I just want to cry. I would see it as another slap in my face. I'm so mad! Is that crazy for me to be mad about it? Even my mother feels this way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


Also, she told my dd that she could not respond to me on fb, said it showed blocked. But I can see where she read my message today. This it telling me that she does not want him seeing that she has talked to me. Right?


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## curlysue321

The more you interfere the more determined your daughter will be to stay with this guy. You just have to let her go and make her own mistakes and be there for her when she falls.


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## d4life

curlysue321 said:


> The more you interfere the more determined your daughter will be to stay with this guy. You just have to let her go and make her own mistakes and be there for her when she falls.


I understand that. I promise you that I have stayed out if it. She will have to learn this the hard way and I'm passed all of that. Right now I am angry that she is wanting to name the baby after my dad. This may seem petty, but I adored my daddy. I would love to honor him in some way, but this is not the right time, the right dad, or the right anything  

Do you think I am being petty? I really don't. I will not say anything to her about it right now of course, but still. I'm going to have to pray on this one.


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## EleGirl

d4life said:


> Oh yes, I have seen it and it should be a warning on what not to do.
> 
> Tonight I just want to scream and I mean it. As if I haven't been hurt enough she told Lindsey that she plans to name the baby after my late daddy if its a boy. Normally it would be an honor, but my dad would roll over in his grave for the way she has done us with this whole thing. He would absolutely never want her to be with a guy like Matt either. OMG I swear she hates me. She knows how much I loved my dad, and what a daddy's girl I was. I just want to cry. I would see it as another slap in my face. I'm so mad! Is that crazy for me to be mad about it? Even my mother feels this way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> Also, she told my dd that she could not respond to me on fb, said it showed blocked. But I can see where she read my message today. This it telling me that she does not want him seeing that she has talked to me. Right?


Yea, she's not talking to you because he can see what she's doing. This is actually good. She's talking to you and your husband when he cannot monitor it. that means that she's sneaking around behind his back... it's a huge crack in their relationship. She's seeing that she cannot have even what she needs (food) because he's unreliable.

About her naming the baby after your dad. You cannot stop her. Let it go.


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## d4life

EleGirl said:


> Yea, she's not talking to you because he can see what she's doing. This is actually good. She's talking to you and your husband when he cannot monitor it. that means that she's sneaking around behind his back... it's a huge crack in their relationship. She's seeing that she cannot have even what she needs (food) because he's unreliable.
> 
> About her naming the baby after your dad. You cannot stop her. Let it go.



I think the same thing, but I'm not sure if it's a good thing or she is trying to keep from fighting with him. Who knows with her.

As for the name thing, I had to let it go. I prayed about it last night, and I went to my weekly women's group this morning at the church and the message led me to let this go. It's not worth stressing over. I was just so angry when I first heard about it last night. I'm glad that I didnt say anything to her about it though.


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## turnera

d4life said:


> Normally it would be an honor, but my dad would roll over in his grave for the way she has done us with this whole thing. He would absolutely never want her to be with a guy like Matt either. OMG I swear she hates me. She knows how much I loved my dad, and what a daddy's girl I was.


I think you're getting a little overboard on this. You are vilifying your daughter, who you SAY used to be a great kid. She's still that same person, just stuck in typical teenagers' yucky messes and too proud to back down since you called her out on this.

SHE is excited to be having a baby, SHE doesn't see it as 'tainted' because of who the father is, SHE is planning a life now. She knows you're hurt, she thinks that naming her baby for your father is a way to honor you, because SHE doesn't see this baby as the spawn of hell, like you do.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> I think you're getting a little overboard on this. You are vilifying your daughter, who you SAY used to be a great kid. She's still that same person, just stuck in typical teenagers' yucky messes and too proud to back down since you called her out on this.
> 
> SHE is excited to be having a baby, SHE doesn't see it as 'tainted' because of who the father is, SHE is planning a life now. She knows you're hurt, she thinks that naming her baby for your father is a way to honor you, because SHE doesn't see this baby as the spawn of hell, like you do.


I knew that last night, but it still made me so mad because I kept thinking that my Dad would be furious with her over this whole thing. Then I had to step back and look at the whole picture. I'm better today about it and I'm actually not as mad, but I'm still not thrilled about it. I had to let it go. I have to let this whole thing go. Nothing I can say or do will change anything anyway.


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## coffee4me

d4life,
I read your post because I have a young daughter and I think as a parent one can never say never.

I really feel for you, it sounds like you are putting some emotional distance between yourself and your daughter and I think that's a good thing. She is an adult making adult decisions she has to take care of herself as that is the path she chose.

I also (like another poster) wondered where your husband was in all of this. Not in the way of beating up the boyfriend but in the way of addressing your daughter and her behavior. It sounds like you do most of the communicating with your daughter and your daughter comes to you and tries to manipulate you but what about your husband? 

I only ask because I've made mistakes in my life with boys or men I chose and the only thing that made me realize those mistakes was my ever present and loving father and brother. If they recognized the mistakes I made they pointed them out. I would have ignored my mother on this even though I love and respect her. I could see from my father and brother's example how one treats a woman they love, be it daughter or wife or girlfriend. I never once doubted that they loved me and I actually knew that they would take better care of me than any loser I was with. 

I don't mean that "things" are handed over, I mean that love and a show of concern for safety and physical well being was shown in actions by my father and brother. They pointed out a boy or man's flaws by stating it as a fact, not a criticism. A fact that as a man they recognized the flaws in character in another man. It may have taken me a little time but in the end I always compared them to my father and brother and I left them. Sometimes, it takes a man to show a woman that her choices in men are wrong. 

I suggest your husband take over speaking with her, he will have to be strong and show that he will not back down on any of the things that she wants but he should just steer the conversation toward her physical health and make suggestions (like wic) and express his concern for her well being. Perhaps in time she will open up to him a little about how she is being treated when she starts to get some loving attention from another strong male in her life- her father.

I hope the best for you and your family.


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## turnera

Great point.


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## d4life

Yes, it's a great point. Lauren adores her daddy, but I have always been the one to discipline the children, mainly because I am a stay at home mom and he works all day. I was always the one that kept things in order and such. I have always liked it this way. If I needed help, he was there.

He is also a very quite person in general. He will voice his opinion, and believe me he has totally opened up to Lauren many, many times over the years about Matt. He has been very supportive of me, and very understanding towards her too. We are on the same page 100%. I just don't talk about him much here, but we do discuss all of this. We have to talk about it otherwise I may do something that he doesn't think would be right. He really keeps me grounded and focused. 

As for Lauren, she knows that she can trust her dad to tell her the truth in the matter. He has always been open and honest with her. He does offer advice, but like I said, it's quick and to the point. He won't dwell on something and pound it into her head like I try to do.  Normally if there is something he wants to communicate to her and it needs more attention than a quick conversation, he will take her to lunch or something like that so that they have a little quite time. It's been a while since that has happened. I have never seen their relationship as anything other than a normal father daughter relationship. 

Lauren is also close to her two uncles. She thinks the world of them and they have also been open and honest with her over the years as well as recently. She has a granddaddy who she knows will always be there, and he has also been a great part of her life. 

The problems with Lauren have nothing to do with the lack of positive male role models in her life, I can promise you that. She is just hooked on this guy, for whatever reason. He is nothing at all like anyone in our family.


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## turnera

I think what coffee meant is that you should step back from THIS situation and hand it over to him. Any responses, if he chooses, will be up to him. Let him decide the path you as parents take on this.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> I think what coffee meant is that you should step back from THIS situation and hand it over to him. Any responses, if he chooses, will be up to him. Let him decide the path you as parents take on this.


Okay, and I understand that. Lauren actually did contact him first after all asking for help with her taxes. 

I will take this advice and let him handle things for a while. It wont change anything with the two of us but you both are right, maybe communicating with her dad more instead of me would be a good thing, especially since I have a hard time biting my tongue sometimes. He is more to the point. She will also be respectful to him where she will let me have it.  

She called and she is going to lunch with some friends today. They are going to bring her by the house to get her Christmas gifts and her Valentines day gift from my mother. She has not been by here since she left. I still do not feel comfortable to be around her. I really wish I could shake that, but I'm having a real hard time with it. I'm sure she will be in and out so it should be fine. She may not even show up at all and I wouldn't be a bit surprised.


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## coffee4me

Thank You turnera that was exactly my point. 

Just based on what d4life wrote here which is I'm sure just a piece of the story it sounds like her daughter is responding to the male in her life that is taking control. He controls her communication, where she goes etc. That is what she is responding to. If the other positive male role models are passively interacting with her it is possible that is why she is not responding. If the majority of the interaction with her has only been through the mom then its worth a try to let her father take over and see if he can get a different, more responsive result. Children react differently to their parents.

This reminds me of a few things from my own childhood. When I was a teen my very strong mother turned over all questions and decisions about dating to my father and they also enlisted my brothers assistance. Why? Because my mother was certainly capable of handling all things related to raising a teen girl, Right? NO! She explained that while she could teach me almost anything she certainly was not MALE and therefore could not advise me as to what was really going on with a teenage boy. My father and brother were much more blunt with me about male attention and motive and they were skeptical of everyone. lol! Why? Because they know what its like to be a teenage boy!.. 

When it was needed there was also coersion involved to keep me on the right path. I'll explain this just in case there is mother reading this who is in the beginning stages of their daughters unwanted relationship. 

When I was in 8th grade (same time your daughter began D4life) I was an honor role good girl. However, just like for many girls I harbored that attraction for the bad boy. My first "love" interest was wrong in every way, juvenile detention , the works. We were dating about 2 weeks, when my older brother found out. 

I think back now to how very wise he was in this situatiion. He sat me down and told me all the reasons this guy was no good. He did his homework knew more about him than I did. He told me all the very blunt reasons why it would not be right for me to continue to see him. He then asked what I was going to do. I said I didn't know. He said he did and promptly handed me the phone. He said, you'll end it now. I gave him the typical "you can't tell me what to do stuff". This is where for a guy only a year older than I, he was wise. Knowing me enough to know that I could never handle causing harm to another person he said, " If you don't break up with him, I will hurt him badly and you will be responsible. You need to do whatever it takes to keep him away from you or I will hurt him every time you see him." And then I will tell dad! Now I will say this only worked because my brother was a boy who could hold his own but still, I could see him enlisting the help of others if he was not able to handle the boyfriend. I did as he said and broke it off. My brother followed up with all his sources for months to ensure compliance. We told my dad about it 10 years later, to which he simply replied that my brother acted exactly as he would have expected. He was raised to protect his family.

As I think about it now I can see that I was a young girl in deep infatuation and completely blind to who I was actually dealing with. I am glad that my brother took action in a way that showed me his care, his control in maintaining my well being and I am still amazed that he figured out a way to get the desired response without actually beating the kid up


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## d4life

I always wanted a big brother for that very reason! 

I can see that working with some kids, but you have no idea what all we went through during those years to keep her away from that boy. Some of her friends were telling her, her best "boy" friend was doing the same. We did everything but beat the kid up. We had a legal restraining order against him. The principle and the councilor even tried. Years of therapy and nothing helped. Nothing we said or did made a difference. I seriously don't think that an older brother would have made a difference in this case. My husband did his best, and still does. Her uncles have tried, and still do. There is no lack of male role models, and no lack of people who loved and cared for her. She is just hung up on him for some reason that non of us will ever understand. 

I appreciate you trying to help with this, and I'm sure that does work in some cases. I only wish it could have in mine. You were very lucky that you listened to your brother. I wish Lauren had listened to any one of us. Things would be very different.


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## turnera

Honestly, all that stuff you did plays strongly in her stubbornness. If she were to give him up now, it just proves you were right and at her age, that's simply inconceivable. The only way out of that quagmire is for you to step back and leave her alone until she sees she can come back without egg on her face.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> Honestly, all that stuff you did plays strongly in her stubbornness. If she were to give him up now, it just proves you were right and at her age, that's simply inconceivable. The only way out of that quagmire is for you to step back and leave her alone until she sees she can come back without egg on her face.


I'm sure you are right, but we did the only thing that we knew to do then, and looking back I am not sure I would have changed anything.

The craziest thing happened today. I had to run by our church to do something for my other daughter and I believe that I was sent there for a totally different reason. When I walked in the woman that handles these things was in her office with her husband, and her daughter and new baby grandson. They all looked so happy and the baby was so sweet. We talked about him for a minute and she went on to say how great grand babies are and so on. I told her that we would soon find out, and told her a snap shot of what we are going through.

She had the strangest look on her face and she went on to say that they went through just about the same thing with their daughter. I could not believe how much our stories were a like. Talking to the girl and the dad too was unbelievable to me, it was like my family all over again. We went on and talked for about 30 minutes. When I left there I felt so much better and I will tell you why.
Her daughter sat there and said that there was nothing that anyone could have said or done to change what she did. She knew that her parents tried their best, and she knew that they loved her and that they would always be there for her. She just needed to get out and fine herself, alone. She did some crazy things and put her parents through much more than what Lauren has done to us. There was a period of 10 months where they didn't know where she was and when hey did find her she would change her number. 

Her mother said that there were times that she didn't know if she would ever see or hear from her again, but they continued to pray for her. It wasn't until she got pregnant that she realized just how much she needed her parents. (Her words!) She said that she finally realized what they had been saying, she said it just all clicked.

The mother said that she is still learning to trust again and that she had a lot of resentment, like I do. It was so much like what we are going through. It was so good though to see that they have found a way to get through all of this. They all said that its a work in progress but by the grace of God they are making it. I

I needed this today. I needed to be reminded that all we can do is the best that we can. I live for my children and for a moment in the past couple of days I have felt like I should have done something different. i was doubting myself. But at the end of the day, I know that we as a family did all we could have to guide her and to help her make good choices. She knows that we love her and that we are here for her and that is good enough for me right now. After hearing this today I have faith that everything will work out fine in time if I keep the faith and back off. 

The last bit of advice that she gave me today was to pray every single day that my daughter will love her child as much as I love her. If she does, then the baby will be fine and things will be good.

I started praying this very prayer today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bellavista

Excellent. Isn't it great when God puts the right person in our paths.


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## d4life

Bellavista said:


> Excellent. Isn't it great when God puts the right person in our paths.


Yes, I cried when I left there because I knew that I was sent there to hear that from them. I remember seeing them at church just a week before the baby was born. I saw the pictures on Facebook and how excited they were and I was thinking, I want that. I want to be excited and I want to be there. It just proved to me that there is hope. That's all I needed to give me a little boost. 

On top of all of this, Lauren has been better. She has called a few times or at least sent me pleasant messages on Facebook. She posted a picture of the two of us together when she was little, about two, when we took her to an amusement park. She posted a picture of her giving her daddy a kiss. I miss her. I don't miss the drama, but I miss her. 

The last time I talked to her I asked if he had a job, and he still doesn't. He is blaming it on not having a cheap way to get to and from work. We have an old Honda civic here and I offered to sell it to him for dirt cheap, if he could sell his truck. It might even make them some money. His mother said that he needs to do it. It's in good shape, it looks brand new and this would help him. 

She said its his pride, and I told her that we have had to just about throw our pride out of the window and that he needs to put his pride aside and do what's best for the baby. If not this car, another one but he needs to do something to help. She agreed, so I don't know what will happen with that. Either way we are selling that car soon. 

Her car is still here. It will remain here too until we sign it over to her. I have been thinking more and more about doing this. My husband said that she would have to get her own ins. and get the title in her name. She is no longer covered on ours. We just cancelled that this month.

I'm not sure what we are going to do yet, but I am considering this. Not for them, but for the baby and I feel like its the right thing to do. I won't do this until he has a job and they can afford the ins on it though so who knows when that will happen. 

I am working through this. I'm trying to stay positive. Things are better at home. I can see a positive change in the kids and in my husband. I think some of the anger and shock has lifted and we are getting better. With prayers, friends, family and this forum, I am getting better. This is huge for me.


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## turnera

DD22's best friend got pregnant on BC, ended up having to marry the crappy father. It's a big mess. He has no car (keeps crashing them), so he uses the one her mom gives her to use, so he can get to his job. At least now that she got pregnant, he's been working steadily at the grocery store. Don't know if they'll make it, but at least they've both had to grow up a lot this year. And the baby is very loved. And like you said, that's the most important thing of all.


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## turnera

Yeah, hold on to the car for now. If she continues to contact you, you may slip out a tidbit or two that if he gets and keeps a job AND pays for at least 3 months of insurance, you may let her have it, so she'll have one for the baby. But make sure you see the receipt for 3 months' paid up (some people will pay just a month to get the car past inspection, and then drop it).


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## ravioli

Wow, such a sad story. Two things come to mind when I read this thread: Maury Povich and The Dog Whisperer. Bad parenting with no rules, boundaries and consequences can lead to disaster.

I kindly ask, what responsibility do you and your husband take in how your daughter came to be?


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## d4life

ravioli said:


> Wow, such a sad story. Two things come to mind when I read this thread: Maury Povich and The Dog Whisperer. Bad parenting with no rules, boundaries and consequences can lead to disaster.
> 
> I kindly ask, what responsibility do you and your husband take in how your daughter came to be?


I agree, it is a sad story, and its also very common even in the best of families. We have beat ourselves up wondering where we went wrong. At this point I do not care to relive any of that. We have come to the conclusion that there is nothing we could have done any different. We did everything that we could to be good parents to her, to guide her in the right direction and to love her. Our other two children are doing just fine and they have learned a great deal from seeing the heartache we have gone through with Lauren. They too have been hurt or disappointed by her actions.

As for the bad parenting with no rules, boundaries and consequences goes, that is way out of line and so not true, even my daughter would tell you that! End of discussion on that. I am not about to get upset over a mute point. I do not need to sit here and defend myself to you. I find that comment rude and not helpful at all. 

Things are better at this moment. There is nothing that I can do about the past. I am trying my best to stay positive for the future.


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## d4life

*A*

Earlier this week I had talked to Lauren a few times off and on. She was respectful each time. My mother had talked to her too through Facebook message. Long story short, I told her on Thursday that I had to run up to my moms Friday after school to look for a prom dress for Lindsey. We were just going to run up there, go to a couple of stores, spend the night and come home the next day. (Today) 

She said that she was off Friday but had to work Saturday night. She said that she really missed seeing my mom and she wanted to go. I really didn't think she would, but she surprised me Friday when she called me about going. 

Until this time, I really had no clue where she was living. I picked the kids up from school and I drove to get her. I also had to go by and get some medication for her from the pharmacy. 

She was so sweet in the car, just like she used to be. We had a nice conversation all the way to my moms. The other two were in the back seat and things were almost like they used to be. We laughed, and talked about things. 

When we got there, I could tell my mother was thrilled to see her. I think she may have been a little scared about what my step father would have to say, but he was very polite. We came in for a minute, dropped my poodle off and headed to the dress store before they closed. They were holding a dress we had seen online and loved. It fit Lindsey like a glove!

After buying the dress, we all went to dinner and it was nice. Then we went to a few more places before heading back to my moms. Once we got back we all sat around her kitchen tale like old times and talked about things.

The main thing we talked about, or sort pointed out to her, was that Matt still has not found a job. We talked about why, and things that he should do, our concerns and so forth. She was sweet about it. She understood, and we were in no way ugly about it, just to the point. 

After that it was all pregnancy stories and laughing at the fact that she has a very weak stomach and she does not handle pain very well. It was relaxing and fun. She had questions and once runs and we talked about those things too. 

She and Lindsey slept in moms guest bedroom. I could hear them laughing like old times and it really warmed my heart. Michael and I slept in the den. We didn't get to bed until afte 1:30 this morning! It really was a great night.

This morning we got up, got ready and went to have lunch together with my mom. I also had another place I had to Go to so we did all f that and then headed home. On the way home I stopped by Books a Million and ran in to get her that book "What to Expect While Expecting". I loved that book when I was pregnant. I gave it to her and I think she appreciated it. 

We drove the hour and a half drive back home and just chit chatted in the car. I stopped and got everyone a milk shake half way home. When we got closer I asked her if she wanted me to drop her back off, or if she wanted to come by the house to see dad and I could take her to work. She asked if we could go by there and drop off her things and she could get ready for work at our house, and I could take her. So that's what we did.

She used my phone to call him as we were pulling up into their subdivision. I really thought he would come out to help her but he didn't. I pulled up front and she got out and got hr things out and carried the in. About five minutes later she came back out alone and we left. She seemed like everything was fine.

We got home and her daddy was grilling out. She loved this when she was home. He really is a great cook! Anyway, she walked over to him and he gave her a big ole daddy hug. He asked how she was doing, just small talk. He said he would get her taxes done for her tomorrow. He asked why she was wearing her glasses because she hates them. She had just put them on because her contacts were bothering her. He asked if she still had contacts. We had just went through an eye infection with her and all of that before all of this happened. I guess he was just making sure she was taking care of her eyes. 

So she came in and got ready for work. We talked a little more and soon it was time to leave. On the way there I slipped her some money, only $10.00 to help her a little. When I got home I called my mom and she was still excited that Lauren had come up there with us. I told her that I it the book for her and that I slipped her some cash, she said that she had done the same. :rofl: She gave her $20.00 so I'm sure that helped her for the week. 

All in all, this weekend was big, huge, for me. I was able to be around her and not lose my temper. I didn't get upset at all. I talked positive, voiced my concerns and showed her what family is all about to me. She knows that we love her. She knows that she has support from all of the family. I think it really did her some good to be around all of us without drama, yelling and all of that. 

We did catch her in one lie. She had told my mother that she went to get on one of the state programs but she said up there that she had not. We didn't make a big deal if it, we just said that one day this week I would come get her and take her to do that. She was fine with it. 

I needed last night and today. I think she needed it, I think we all needed it. I am hoping that this is the first big step to repairing the damage to our relationship. 

I thought I would share our little step in the right direction.

On a a side note, she did ask me to wash her clothes that she brought with her. Her jacket and everything. She said that his parents and Matt smoke in the house and it stinks so bad. I found this funny because I hate that smell too, and everytime she would stay with a friend of hers I would wash everything and make her shower when she got home. Plus, up until she it pregnant she had been smoking, now the smell makes her nauseous. This old be a good thing. Maybe she will never smoke again.


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## turnera

Sounds like good progress. And she didn't even ask for the car!


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## d4life

coffee4me said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Sounds really good d4life.


Thank you! She didn't ask for the car and I was very happy about that. I think it was good for her to get away, even for just one night. She sent me a message today thanking me for asking her to go. That's all that I heard from her, and that was ok. 😄
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

I'm happy for you.
I see progress, I hear a different person in this post compared to when this all started.

Focus on this new connection...lies aside you have gained some ground. 

Go buy a carton of smokes every day for her BF parents. LOL. maybe she will come home and stay this time


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## d4life

The strange thing is that my husband found out this week that there is a job opening up where my mother lives. That is where we lived when we met and married. This would be the promotion he has been holding out for in the location that would be best for our family. We would be an hour from his parents, and close to my mom. This is something that we have wanted since he was hired on 18 years ago. We have moved all around with several promotions, but this would be our last move, more than likely. 

Hearing the news, I was excited and a little torn. We really need to get our other two children out of this town to give them more choices. My daughter wants to go to the university there, and she could live at home and go. Its where her daddy and grandparents graduated from. My son is still young, but it would be great for him too. But then there is Lauren and the new baby and she is going to need help. :scratchhead:

My husband is going to put in for this job. It won't even open up for a few more months, but he is going to do it and we are just going to pray about it. I have faith that God will place is where we should be. If it is here that's fine, and if we go that's fine too. I will know that what ever happens it will be what is best for my family.

We told Lauren about the news. She has always wanted out of this town from day one when we moved here 9 years ago. She hates it here. She has always wanted to move back up there close to my mom. We moved from there when she was in kindergarten, but it has always been an important place in our lives because of family.

When we were coming home the other day Lauren said that if we move we still need to make sure we have a house big enough for her should she have to come home. She said that "in case things don't work out". 

This had me thinking, my parents built a house on the lake years ago just after Mike and I got married. It never crossed my mind that they should have room for me just in case it didn't work out. This makes we wonder if she is having doubts of some kind. I do know the smoking thing is bothering her, and I understand that because I hate that smell! I didn't say anything, but I assured her that we would have plenty of room if we moved. 


It's really funny how fast life can change. I mean, we are sailing right along and then boom! You just never know what may happen at any given time that can have such an impact on your life. Taking life one day at a time is hard for me because I am a big time planner and I love to know what is going on two months from now. I have learned how to slow down and enjoy each day now. I'm still working on it, but I am trying, and I can see a change. Thinking positive has helped a lot too.


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## daisygirl 41

d4life
I haven't commented on your thread but have been following from the beginning. I'm so happy for you and your family and the progress that's been made.
Your last couple of updates have been very positive indeed.
Keep up the good work!
Best wishes
DG


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## turnera

I'm sure she's thought a LOT about coming home. Especially now. You know he's not going to last. The only thing I worry about is if he gets parental rights, he may not LET her move his child away.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> I'm sure she's thought a LOT about coming home. Especially now. You know he's not going to last. The only thing I worry about is if he gets parental rights, he may not LET her move his child away.


This is my worrie too. I remember a while back I talked to her about giving the baby her last name. I'm not sure if it matters or not but I thought it would make things easier. She got real defensive and said that the baby will have his last name. I had to just let that go for now. I'm not sure if anyone has any advice on that or not. Will it even matter?

She also said that his older sister didn't know until a week or so ago and she was livid. She does not live here and she is engaged and seems to be moving in a good direction as far as I have heard. She told Lauren off, big time. but Lauren said all of the things that she was saying, she understood why she said them. Basically that her brother is jobless and lazy, lives off of her parents and now they both would be taking advantage of them. Suff like that. It's all true though. I told Lauren that most people feel this way, but they should step up and prove us all wrong. 

It's just not going to happen on his end. I get the feeling that she is seeing what we are saying, but she won't except it just yet. She wants to give him more time.  We are stepping way back and seeing where the cards fall.


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## turnera

The best thing I can say is visit a lawyer and see if there's anything you can do up front to protect her rights.


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## letting_go

Thank you sharing your story on this forum- I stumbled upon it today while looking for help with my 18 year old daughter- you are doing a great job under really trying circumstances and I applaud you. Without hijacking your thread, I will mention I am at the point you were at the start of your story where I have said to my daughter I want no ongoing contact with her. We have had 18 months of hell with her and her boyfrend. My daughter has had everything- unlimited love and care, expensive education- she was the sweetest child and I am so sad that she has turned out the way she has. 

It looks like things are definitely changing in your family and I wish you all the best. I am just wondering though if you have any fears about getting reinvolved in the life of your daughter and grandchild if she wants to get back in with the family? I have to say- at this point if my daughter told me she was pregnant I wouldn't get involved in the situation. She has been so nasty to us I just don't trust her and I would be too scared to bond to any child of hers because I feel she could use withdrawal of contact with her child as leverage if she isn't getting what she wants. I would also fear pouring time and energy into a grandchild and have it do what my daughter has done. I have become so sad and cynical...


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## turnera

letting_go, people change. Especially 18 year olds. Just step back for now and let her self-destruct. She'll eventually find you again.


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## EleGirl

Glad to year that all of you had a few good days together. All of you needed that.

It does sound like your daughter is starting to realize that she's in a bad situation. Just saying that you needed to make sure you have room for her if it does not work out is huge.

One thing that you might want to find a delicate way to tell her is that second hand cigarette smoke is very bad for everyone. But it's especially bad for pregnant women (causes fetus development issues) and children.

I get what his sister is saying about your daughter and her bf taking advantage of his mother. But it seems his mother is not just facilitating it, but actively adding to the drama.


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## d4life

letting_go said:


> Thank you sharing your story on this forum- I stumbled upon it today while looking for help with my 18 year old daughter- you are doing a great job under really trying circumstances and I applaud you. Without hijacking your thread, I will mention I am at the point you were at the start of your story where I have said to my daughter I want no ongoing contact with her. We have had 18 months of hell with her and her boyfrend. My daughter has had everything- unlimited love and care, expensive education- she was the sweetest child and I am so sad that she has turned out the way she has.
> 
> It looks like things are definitely changing in your family and I wish you all the best. I am just wondering though if you have any fears about getting reinvolved in the life of your daughter and grandchild if she wants to get back in with the family? I have to say- at this point if my daughter told me she was pregnant I wouldn't get involved in the situation. She has been so nasty to us I just don't trust her and I would be too scared to bond to any child of hers because I feel she could use withdrawal of contact with her child as leverage if she isn't getting what she wants. I would also fear pouring time and energy into a grandchild and have it do what my daughter has done. I have become so sad and cynical...


I know that feeling all to well and it is so heartbreaking. I am so sorry that you are going through this. I truly am. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk. 



turnera said:


> letting_go, people change. Especially 18 year olds. Just step back for now and let her self-destruct. She'll eventually find you again.


*letting go*
This has to be some of the best advice that I got. I was so involved for years, I tried to do everything that I knew to do to help her. I was taking all kinds of advice and nothing was working. Not until I came here for help and actually listened to what they had to say. 

I don't know if you go to church or not, but for me that has been where I have tried to help myself. I listen to what is being said and some how over the last month in a half EVERYTIME I stepped into the church it was something that I needed to hear to help me through this.

Another thing that has helped me is knowing that I am not alone. My children's dr has a daughter who did the same thing. Hearing this helped me because I felt like I was being judged as a mother. I'm a stay at home mom who lost control of my daughter and she hated me. That ran through my mind constantly. I felt like I failed her in some way. It took me a long time to see that it wasn't so much me who failed her, but rather she has failed herself. Of course she doesn't see this. She still thinks that she is fighting for the love of her life. 

You asked if I have any fears, and I will be totally honest with you, I am scared to death, but I have to take this one day at a time and do what I think is right. I am trying to respond to her in a positive way instead of biting her head off like I feel like doing. I almost feel a sense of calm about the situation. It may be the calm before the storm though! :rofl: I'm just trying my best, and I pray daily.

My husband and I talk about this, his family knows what is going on, and my family does too. We have a huge support system, and these people love us, and love Lauren and together we will get through this. I know that this will not be easy. It's not going to be easy for you either but never give up hope. You need a good support system. Come here and start a thread. I can't believe how just writing down these feelings and having someone outside of the circle guide me to give me advice has helped. It really has. 

A page or two back I wrote about me going to the church to sign my daughter up for something. Read what that woman told me. Hearing what she said and seeing the love that they all have for one another did something to me that day. It inspired me and gave me the hope that I needed to get through this a little longer. 

I know this hurts. It's very upsetting and so disappointing, but this is when you need to be your strongest. My mother in law told me to let go of the pain of loving Lauren. It didn't make sense to me at first but the more I thought about it, the more it did. I was hurting inside and out. She tore me up. I will never let her control my emotions like I let her do before. I see it now as she is not hurting me, but she is hurting herself. She has chosen this life, and it will be much harder than what we ever wanted for her, but this is her choice. 

Your daughter is doing the same thing. Just trust that since you gave her such a wonderful childhood and raised her in a loving home she will one day understand what you were trying to do. 

I wish I could hug you to make it better. It is really just going to have to take time. If I can make it to this point with the hate and anger I had for this whole mess, YOU can too.


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## turnera

It may be a little late to completely mold your kids, at their age, but I urge both of you to look up authoritative parenting. It's the best way to parent, in which you guide, but let them make decisions. Shows you trust them but WILL provide consequences if they mess up - for their benefit (learning). Then you step out of the way and let them come to their own conclusions. The more you try to micromanage a teen, the more they will rebel.


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## letting_go

D4life- thank you so much for your reply. Everything you have said resonates with me. I have also been a stay at home mother and have done everything to try and give her a good life- in retrospect I have probably done too much and it has back fired on me. I am so happy for you that you have good family support- I wish I did but I am pretty much alone with my situation. I will take your advice and start my own thread - I really do need some help as I am overwhelmed with emotions and I don't know what to do at this point. God bless, and I will be following your story and praying for a good outcome for you all.


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## d4life

letting_go said:


> D4life- thank you so much for your reply. Everything you have said resonates with me. I have also been a stay at home mother and have done everything to try and give her a good life- in retrospect I have probably done too much and it has back fired on me. I am so happy for you that you have good family support- I wish I did but I am pretty much alone with my situation. I will take your advice and start my own thread - I really do need some help as I am overwhelmed with emotions and I don't know what to do at this point. God bless, and I will be following your story and praying for a good outcome for you all.


You are so very welcome. I just saw your thread and I will go there myself and read it. I hope that you get great advice from the people here. You need all of the support that you can get. I hate to hear that you feel like you are alone, but don't feel that way now because you have us.  I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.


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## the guy

turnera said:


> It may be a little late to completely mold your kids, at their age, but I urge both of you to look up authoritative parenting. It's the best way to parent, in which you guide, but let them make decisions. Shows you trust them but WILL provide consequences if they mess up - for their benefit (learning). Then you step out of the way and let them come to their own conclusions. The more you try to micromanage a teen, the more they will rebel.


Cant we just beat them with a piece of lumber?:lol:

Why do we have to alway out think them with our own experiences? You would think that getting zapped with a dazzer gun, we could get our kids into submission?

I bet if we had "The Hunger Games" all of us wouldn't have these kind of problems.:rofl:

Love rules.......as long we have love our little sh1ts, they will come out OK...

We can never turn our backs on them...can we???? It just doesn't seem right!

Did you guys see the thread about a father's deal with his cheating daughter? Its in CWI (Coping With Indidelity) section and the poster is "reeling"...forgot the exact title.

Poor dad is dealing with his daughter cheating on her husband.


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## d4life

*Up date*

It has been a few weeks since I have been on here so I thought I would post an update 

Things have been getting a little better and better as time has gone on. Just last week we decided to gift Lauren her car and put it into her name legally. Before I did that we had her sign up for government assistance for what ever benefits she can get. There is a save a life program here where she can go in and take parenting classes to earn "mommy money" to purchase things from them. They have diapers and wipes and such as well as baby items for very little money. I think these classes will help her.

He still does not have a job and I am more sure than ever that he won't find one. I will be shocked if he does. My guess is that he couldn't pass a drug test but I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

So today I was really put to the test. I knew this day would come and I wasn't sure how I would feel but she had an appointment to see the sex of the baby and his mom and Matt were there. I was stress eating all day long. I had not seen either of them in person since putting a restraining order against him years ago in the court room.  Nice memory.

So I show up at the hospital just before they got there. I felt like running but I just wanted to be there for that moment. His mom wouldn't look me in the eye at first, I guess in fear of what I might say. I was fine though, and I held it together. We were called back pretty quickly and before I knew it the baby was on the monitor.

The lady went over everything and said it all looked good. Heart rate sounded good, the measurements were on track so it all looked great. I was having flashbacks of when I went in to do this with my babies. Soon I saw it, before she even said anything I saw it on the screen. I was hoping for the three little lines of a girl, but I saw a "set" instead. Just about that time she said "it's a boy!". Of course they were all excited, and I was too because deep down I knew it was a boy. I was still holding out hope for a girl for selfish reasons. I have seen the cutest baby girl clothes recently. 

So in a short 15 minutes I went from not seeing them in years to seeing them and learning that we all would be having a baby boy soon. It was so surreal. 

You know, the baby will be precious I know. He's a good looking boy, and Lauren is pretty too. I just hope it doesn't follow in the daddy's footsteps. I told my son tonight that even though he is young, he needs to be a big influence on this baby and show him how good kids do. Stay out of trouble, away from drugs and make something out of himself. I told my husband that he is going to have to step up and be an important part of this baby's life too so that he has someone to look up to and someone to influence him. He just won't get that from the other side, or at least I don't think so. 

Also, his mom worried me. She looks like she is on something. She is bone skinny and looks strung out. I'm worried about that.


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## whatslovegottodowithit?

I'm SO happy to read that things are better for you! Congrats on your grandson!! In time, I hope things end with a happy ending for you and your family!!!

You and your H have done a remarkable job showing tough love and it appears that finally your daughter is becoming receptive to it. Keep up the great work and I look forward to more positive updates! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## d4life

Thank you both. We still have a long way to go but I do see hope and that's good enough for me right now. I'm just taking it one day at a time and my mother has been amazing through all of this. Seeing how she has been handling it and getting her advice has been priceless to me. I'm 44, and still learning from my mother.


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## mace17

I didn't read all the replies, but I can so relate. My daughter started dating a 24 yr old boy when she was 16. We didn't find out til she was 17 almost 18 and got caught with him in a car by the cops. She knew she was in trouble so she faked a suicide attempt and ended up in a mental hospital for a few weeks. She told us that he was molesting her against her will and that she didn't want to but didn't know how to say no. Needless to say, she got sympathy and he was hated. She was in counseling and on medication and then a couple months before she turned 18 she came to me and told me she had lied about everything, she and this guy were still together and in love and she wanted me to meet him. I totally flipped out and said no way, but as soon as she turned 18 she moved in with him. Now my story has a happy ending, they stayed together, got married, and had a baby. She is now 22 and happy with him. 
Even though her story had a good ending, I know where you are now and it doesn't sound like your daughters is going that way. What I wanted to tell you is that when mine moved out, I told her that she was an adult and could make her own decisions, I would always be there for her but she was on her own now and her life was her responsibility. She knows I'm here for her but she is also responsible for her own choices now. And that's all you can do, let her know that you love her and you're always there if she needs you, but then back off and let her make her own decisions even if you don't like them. It's hard but she has to learn some if these lessons for herself and no matter how bad it feels you can't help. The more you try and tell her she's wrong and interfere though the farther she will back away from you and not seek out your help when she needs it because she will be afraid of hearing "I told you so". Just let her know you are there for her and put the ball in her court. It sucks but that's all you can do.


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