# Help--What to say to my wife?



## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

Background info--

Married 7 1/2 years, 2 kids. Good marriage, typical struggles, nothing extraordinary but have stuck together in the parenting and other parts of marriage. Sex is infrequent since we were married-- I would say typically every 4-6 weeks with some much longer dry spells in there and a few spurts where it was more frequent. I am nearly 42 and she is 37.

Currently we are back to about once every 4-6 or even 8 weeks and I am frustrated. 

I have read no more mr nice guy and MMSLP. I know what they are saying and have implemented these items. The hardest part for me is to sort of withdraw in a way (the work on yourself) and be 'upbeat' all the time--while I am extremely frustrated. I am in good shape. Please do not respond telling me to work out more. I have been for years. 

Over the years of our marriage, we HAVE discussed this and my dissatisfaction. She always says it is her, not me, she does love me and loves being with me and just is never in the mood. She has the litany of excuses at hand when she knows I am and she still is not. There are times I will go sleep on the couch partly out of frustration, this bothers her b/c she wants me near her, she wants to sleep with me. (literally)

She has been doing a brazilian wax since before our anniv in May (we went to the beach in Fl for a few days). She decided to do it for the trip and since it made her feel good about her self (sexy) she kept doing it. At first I thought it was partly for me, but I have not had the chance to really enjoy it much. Ibring this up b/c there were a few years where the 'reason' for not wanting it was mostly she didnt feel good about herself. Well, she looks amazing now, lost all the baby weight, etc., and she knows I feel this way. 

I know there are going to be alot of affair-type comments on this. That is not the issue. 

So...the last couple weeks I have been hinting and a few times just telling her I want to do it. A couple times she would say for sure tomorrow, this weekend, etc. and when I went after her and we are kissing, for example sun night, kids in bed, she is kissing back but then says, i dont think so tonight honey. Sat morning I told her playfully that I am really horny and she just laughed it off saying 'typical guy' or something like that. 

This morning at 330am she wakes up, just trying to get back to sleep. She rolls over and rubs her foot up and down my leg for a min, which wakes me up. We cuddle for awhile and I am waking up now and very aroused. At one point she is carressing my chest and I move it down and then she gets upset, says I just ruing a good thing (cuddling together). I dont say much, and after a few mins I go and sleep on the couch. 

Tonight she is going to say something. Honestly, I do not want to talk about this every 8 or 12 or 16 months anymore. I need to know the most effective way to communicate to her when I respond. I know with MMSLP it is not about talking or asking for sex but working on yourself and letting her respond, but she is going to want to talk about it and if I act like this didnt happen I am basically insulting her intelligence-- I do not feel like I did anything wrong hower (was not forceful or anything). 

TIA.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Tell her you agreed to be monogamus not celibate. Tell her as a man you have needs, and is not meeting them. Then tell her if she doesnt try to meet those needs, you are going to have to make other arrangements. Then wait for the awesome duty sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Mo42 said:


> Tonight she is going to say something. Honestly, I do not want to talk about this every 8 or 12 or 16 months anymore. I need to know the most effective way to communicate to her when I respond.


It all depends what are you willing to do if she doesn't change or makes no effort to change. 

So far the only consequence she endured for neglecting you is your couch sleepovers.

You need better consequences.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

"What to say to my wife?"

When I was in a similar situation, I eventually said "Goodbye."

This isn't something you can fix, and she can't either (unless it's due to a hormone imbalance). It seems like the typical LD-HD dilemma, along with an otherwise good marriage. Learn to live with it - or don't live with it.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> It all depends what are you willing to do if she doesn't change or makes no effort to change.
> 
> So far the only consequence she endured for neglecting you is your couch sleepovers.
> 
> You need better consequences.


Can you elaborate on the consequences you are recommending and how to respond to her specifically TONIGHT when she brings this up?


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## keeper63 (Mar 22, 2012)

When you talk, tell her that the marriage as it currently stands isn't working for you, you are not getting your physical and emotional needs met.

Tell her that the two of you need to get marriage counseling. That both of you need to do this as soon as possible, and her participation is mandatory. Tell her the marriage is on life support, and you both need to make your marriage healthy again, or you will simply pull the plug on it.

I did this exact thing a couple of years ago. It really got my wife's attention, and she thought enough of the relationship to go with me to MC/ST. We did this for nearly a year, and it was the best thing we ever did for our relationship.

See, in many instances, the LD partner likes things exactly the way they are (they get companionship, help around the house/help with kids, financial stability, they control the sex, etc.). To them, everything is 100% hunky dory. They have no ability to see what the rejection and emotional disconnect are doing to you, the resentment builds, and pretty soon there is nothing left.

If she refuses to go to MC, then you should go by yourself. Start making plans to move out, talk to a lawyer, etc. Make sure she knows you are executing on your plan to move on with your life without her.

How she responds to all this will tell you a lot about where your marriage really is, and if it is worth saving.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

"This morning at 330am she wakes up, just trying to get back to sleep. She rolls over and rubs her foot up and down my leg for a min, which wakes me up. We cuddle for awhile and I am waking up now and very aroused. At one point she is carressing my chest and I move it down and then she gets upset, says I just ruing a good thing (cuddling together). I dont say much, and after a few mins I go and sleep on the couch".

And she is ruining your marriage. Keeper is spot on with the advice. I suggest you find a counselor through IC first that understands these situations and supports the fact that a healthy marriage by and large requires a healthy sexual relationship.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

The sad part is when she wakes you up and makes advances and you take it as she wants to have sex only to be shut down. Or when she gets mad when you sleep on the couch and she has no one to sleep with. That isn't fair and truthfully it sound like a great big tease. 

You can sit her down and tell her that she either gets with the program (for lack of better words) or your going to file or leave and what you might get is pity sex or mercy sex. I think that when that happens it takes away from your dignity and self respect. 

You either tell her to get to a doctor or MC and find a solution to the problem or the marriage will be going down the drain. What ever you do, please don't tell her your going to look for another woman or cheat. That will not help you in the least. That will make matters worse.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Why would you want to talk to a woman who refuses you sex? She knows what you want. She knows she isn't providing. If you seem pissed or unhappy, she already knows why. If she doesn't like seeing you that way, she knows how to fix it.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

IMO you should tell her that depriving you of intimacy is going to cause more problems than a just a cuddle shortage.

My wife did not seriously try until she knew I was willing to move on. Your dance sounds all too familiar as women can so artfully put us off and eventually, they hope, turn us off. 

Try to change the pursuit and by that I don't mean who initiates because you own that. Be less available, do your own things. I am doing it right if once a week she asks me to go to the store or get ice cream with her and I have other plans. She makes a pouty face as I give her a kiss and shove off. Keep a bit of mystery and give short answers when she asks about your night.

This probably works because I can't be "all-in" on satisfying Her Needs (HNHN) if she is leaving me to struggle with mine.

Think in terms of an intervention, and if she is stubborn, probably a harsh one. She has guided your relationship to this and likely does not want to give it up.

And finally...try not to make the debate a disagreement about the sex. Instead, be working on you to attract her interest and know that the rest follows.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> My wife did not seriously try until she knew I was willing to move on.


OP, read this and then read it again. It's not just his wife. It's yours too! Your wife thinks you're a sure thing no matter how she treats you, and you're not doing anything to make her think otherwise.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

How about simple honesty?

"I don't want to be married to someone who doesn't want to have sex with me. It is both emotionally and physically destructive to me. I'm finding myself getting more and more detached from you and our marriage. Every time you shut me down and aren't in the mood, I feel like you've pushed me away even farther. _Our marriage is in trouble_."


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> How about simple honesty?


To answer your question NJ it takes actions not words. My guess is many words have been expended by the time the OP gets here.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

norajane said:


> How about simple honesty?
> 
> "I don't want to be married to someone who doesn't want to have sex with me. It is both emotionally and physically destructive to me. I'm finding myself getting more and more detached from you and our marriage. Every time you shut me down and aren't in the mood, I feel like you've pushed me away even farther. _Our marriage is in trouble_."


OP is asking what to "say" to his wife, and I think this sums it up pretty nicely. I was going to mention something similar along the lines of "I don't know how much longer I can stay married without sex. The constant rejection and long dry spells do not make me feel loved or close to you and I feel like I'm close to wanting to move on."


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

at some point you have to say I've tried my best and even if she turned it around today the resentment or question that shes just doing it to apease me (dosen't really desire me ) would over ride me wanting to be with them and losing desire for someone who dosn't desire me back!

so where are you at with this thought process?


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

I will say that this has been discussed numerous times but not for a couple years. I do not want to appear needy, desparate, etc but I do think she needs to know these things. I also do NOT want any sort of pity or duty sex which would be likely. 

I feel like she will say she is sorry, initiate something afterword or in the next few days, and I will want to say no. MMSLP says NEVER to say no but I feel like I wont be in the mood.....

And yes, previously she has apologized and tried to change, etc, said it is HER and not ME...but at the end of the day ACTIONS are what I need and not apologies. 

I am trying to find a way to make this one conversation effective as I do not want to have to have it again in a year.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> To answer your question NJ it takes actions not words. My guess is many words have been expended by the time the OP gets here.


I think the key is the "our marriage is in trouble" part. People often talk around and around issues, but never actually come out and say "we're in trouble and heading for divorce if we don't change something." 

Especially people who are in an otherwise decent or good marriage. Divorce is not something to throw around lightly, and then there are kids... But if you're not getting through to someone on how important an issue is, you are edging closer to divorce the longer nothing is done. You have to put a stake in the ground, wave the red flags, flash the red lights, get their attention - our marriage is in serious _trouble_ and isn't going to last if we keep this up.

It may even be harder for men to put that stake in the ground over sex if they don't think they have a right to end a marriage because of it. But if they go sexless for years and years, then their wives certainly have no reason to believe the marriage is in trouble and edging toward divorce because of it.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

"She has been doing a brazilian wax since before our anniv in May (we went to the beach in Fl for a few days). She decided to do it for the trip and since it made her feel good about her self (sexy) she kept doing it. At first I thought it was partly for me, but I have not had the chance to really enjoy it much. Ibring this up b/c there were a few years where the 'reason' for not wanting it was mostly she didnt feel good about herself. Well, she looks amazing now, lost all the baby weight, etc., and she knows I feel this way. "


Im sorry, not to throw gasoline on the embers, but this statement sounds very alarming, and triggering, to me. How positive are you, that there isnt another man in the background of your marriage?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

toonaive said:


> Im sorry, not to throw gasoline on the embers, but this statement sounds very alarming, and triggering, to me. How positive are you, that there isnt another man in the background of your marriage?


It's a valid point. OP wants to control the conversation to maintain his view of the world but this is hard to ignore. There are many examples that would lead one to believe that this is a sign of cheating.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

When you come home from work, tell her you want to have sex. If she says no, start a gigantic fight. Then do the same thing tomorrow, the day after that, and the day after that, etc etc until the problem either resolves itself or she moves out.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> It's a valid point. OP wants to control the conversation to maintain his view of the world but this is hard to ignore. There are many examples that would lead one to believe that this is a sign of cheating.


she is home with the kids, i get home at 330pm from work, and with her every night. she has classes wed and thurs afternoon and i am home from work before her. i have checked phone/text records. nothing unusual. 

if there were more available time for her without the kids, i would be very alarmed. i have stopped home unexpectedly and nothing unusual at all.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Mo42 said:


> She has been doing a brazilian wax since before our anniv in May (we went to the beach in Fl for a few days). She decided to do it for the trip and since it made her feel good about her self (sexy) she kept doing it. At first I thought it was partly for me, but I have not had the chance to really enjoy it much. Ibring this up b/c there were a few years where the 'reason' for not wanting it was mostly she didnt feel good about herself. Well, she looks amazing now, lost all the baby weight, etc., and she knows I feel this way.
> 
> I* know there are going to be alot of affair-type comments on this. That is not the issue. *


How do you know? What active steps have you taken to verify that there is not another man on the sidelines? 

So many here on TAM swore up and down that adultery was not the reason for the lack of intimacy...until they filed for divorce and the spouse immediately moved in with a "new" partner before the ink was even dry on the divorce agreement.


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## Mo42 (Jul 25, 2013)

LostViking said:


> How do you know? What active steps have you taken to verify that there is not another man on the sidelines?
> 
> So many here on TAM swore up and down that adultery was not the reason for the lack of intimacy...until they filed for divorce and the spouse immediately moved in with a "new" partner before the ink was even dry on the divorce agreement.


Im going to assume that you were typing this at the same time I was posting my previous message, but to elaborate, the lack of intimacy has been going on for 7 years. It isnt non existent, but sparse enough to make me unhappy. 

Ive read this board before and seen the vigilance its members has against WS and that is understood, and that is why I made the comment I did about the 'affair-type comments'. 

I am asking for the most effective way to respond or approach my wife re the lack of sex, esp after what happened at 4 am today.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

A large part of what you say depends on how "desparate" the situation is. Are you prepared to lay down your sexual boundaries and enforce them, even if it means the end of your marriage?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The problem I see here is that even if you take all the advice here and tell her that she isn't "meeting your needs", etc, the best you're going to get is duty sex and you've already said you don't want that. Don't blame you there, I don't want it either. First question: is she on birth control? That's libido killer number one. Does she maybe have trouble shutting off "mom" mode? I can tell you that my sex drive went way up when i went back to work after kids. Rather than focusing every conversation on you and what you want/need, have tried asking her about her needs? How often does she want sex? Does she enjoy it when you do have it? Do you meet her needs? My ex was a selfish lover so of course I wasn't into sex with him. What can you do to help? Is she happy staying at home (not everybody is)? I'm throwing things out there because unless you can get HER needs out in the open the best you're ever going to get is duty sex. That might be ok of it's part of a larger compromise; imo one big mistake higher drive people make is not only demanding more sex but also demanding spouse enjoy all of it, but that's unfair because you can't demand that somebody want something they don't. You can only ask that they do things for you, and that's ok! That's part of marital compromise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> you can't demand that somebody want something they don't.


That's true. But you CAN enforce boundaries and say that you're not willing to be in a one sided non-sexual marriage. Frankly, I don't want to be married to someone who doesn't want me. I'm not going to demand that my wife want me, but I'm not going to stay if she doesn't either. Hypothetically of course....my wife gives me every indication that she wants me.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> That's true. But you CAN enforce boundaries and say that you're not willing to be in a one sided non-sexual marriage. Frankly, I don't want to be married to someone who doesn't want me. I'm not going to demand that my wife want me, but I'm not going to stay if she doesn't either. Hypothetically of course....my wife gives me every indication that she wants me.


Of course, but to cherry pick that one statement gives a misleading picture of what i wrote. i said that you can't demand that a lower drive partner have more sex with you and also demand that they enjoy it as much as you, cause if they could do that they'd be hd. I also said marital compromise is a good thing. .He doesn't want duty sex and he doesn't want a divorce, so what to do? That's why i was throwing out ideas. It may be that he will need to decide if the marriage is working for him. I'm a pragmatic person and this is his situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

There are a coup,e of things she could and should be doing but before she does those things she has to:

1. Agree that her lack of desire to have sex is hurting you and the marriage.
2. Understand that she does have an impact on her own sex drive. She CAN get her sex drive back if she works at it.

I agree with NoraJane, as always. Be honest, this is affecting the marriage and it can not continue.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Did things go down hill with the kids arriving? Were things satisfactory early in the marriage?

Not sure if this is a viable option but how about a weekend getaway just the two of you? Leave the kids with grandparents/friends/strangers and get a nice hotel with a Jacuzzi tub - and bring some massage oil.

You see where this is going I hope. 

Assuming you have a great time let her know that's what you want and expect to have more often.

I've also heard some people find it helpful to schedule time for sex - maybe make Sat Night the official time for it...


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Mo42 said:


> Background info--
> 
> Married 7 1/2 years, 2 kids. Good marriage, typical struggles, nothing extraordinary but have stuck together in the parenting and other parts of marriage. Sex is infrequent since we were married-- I would say typically every 4-6 weeks with some much longer dry spells in there and a few spurts where it was more frequent. I am nearly 42 and she is 37.
> 
> ...


Wow, my husband could have written this. We had the same dynamic in our relationship for years. When we were dating, before kids and marriage, we had sex very frequently and were well matched in our drives. After kids and homeownership and some typical marital difficulties, my libido completely disappeared. Over the years, we working on our marriage and it got much, much better . . . but my drive was still gone. I was okay with that, him not so much. 

For years he tried to talk to me about it, but I didn't know what to do. We were never able to rebuild our intimacy because he felt rejected, isolated, and frustrated--and was frequently grumpy an depressed, which was a huge turn off for me. I wanted to want him, but didn't know how. I tried counseling. I tried "fake it til you make it." I kept myself fit and attractive and was generally really happy in my life. When I did feel like having sex, generally for a few days each much when I was ovulating, we'd have often have fantastic sex. Then nothing for weeks. It was killing my husband, and I couldn't see it.

Our marriage began to further degrade and we even talked about separating. I felt helpless to change and would have agreed to divorce if he requested one. He talked to me regularly about what lack of sex meant to him, but mostly I was dismissive. I deeply, deeply regret that. 

Back in January he approached me again--not as part of a fight, not when he was feeling combative about he issue. He described how he was having trouble at work, struggling to be a good father, and losing interest in everything he used to love to do. He asked me to please just take a look at myself and see if there was ANYTHING I could do to address my low libido. A few weeks later, I did an internet search that lead me here and I started to read. 

You'd think that hearing it from your own husband would make you understand, but I didn't understand. Sexual frustration and a marriage with no intimacy had impacted my husband until he had become someone I barely recognized. I also came to see clearly that he needed freely given sex with ME. What he needed could not be met by porn or masturbation or duty sex or even cheating. He.wanted.me. 

Weirdly, my libido came crashing back instantly. He was out of town, but when he got home we talked for days and days and days to work through all this. Sex is better than it has ever been, and we've rebuilt the intimacy to a level we never had in our marriage. I can't say that keeping it that way is effortless--I work on my drive, my desire every day. I go to individual counseling to keep on top of resentment issues (which had killed our intimacy in the first place). Bottom line is I WANT to have this sort of connection with my husband. 

I don't think you can scare or bully or threaten your wife into wanting more sex--not if you have the hope of moving on to a better, mutually satisfying sex life. But you can try and make her see that sex with HER is crucial to your health and happiness, that your marriage will erode without it. She is wrong to humiliate you or make you feel bad about having a drive. Once she understands this, what she does with the information will be telling. 

I never want to go back to the days when my husband slept on the couch because he couldn't bear the intensity of his desire when he laid beside me.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> There are a coup,e of things she could and should be doing but before she does those things she has to:
> 
> 1. Agree that her lack of desire to have sex is hurting you and the marriage.
> 2. Understand that she does have an impact on her own sex drive. She CAN get her sex drive back if she works at it.
> ...


Yes, I want to re-stress point #2. She CAN get it back. She might be feeling helpless because if the desire's not there, it's not there. (And, speaking from experience, sometimes it's worse than no desire, sometimes there can be an actual revulsion towards sex.) It's about her making a change in herself and wanting to be a sexual person for HERSELF first so that she can then share this willingly with you.


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

PBear said:


> A large part of what you say depends on how "desparate" the situation is. Are you prepared to lay down your sexual boundaries and enforce them, even if it means the end of your marriage?


There is a caveat (as always). Be careful about throwing out the "D" word. Once it is out there, you both will be thinking about it. No situation is insurmountable, but push come to shove, you have to be willing to back up what you say. 

An example based on my experience. My sex life with my ex dwindled to your level after kids. Many discussions took place with no action on her part. Then I threw out the "D" word in the hopes of change. Things went okay for a couple months then dwindled back to the same-old. I did not follow through on my threat and she realized that she was good. In the end, she decided to have an affair with my best friend. Pretty much ended the whole thing right there, should have just ended it earlier. The additional pain really sucked. Moral to the story: If you use divorce as a threat, you better put up or shut up. Probably have better results too.

Also, when you have your discussion, focus on how you feel, not on a lack of sex. Men and women view intimacy differently and you need to explain clearly how her rejection effects you. Describe the frustration and inadequacy that you feel due to the lack of intimacy. Women bond with feelings and emotions (talking, cuddling, sharing feelings, ect) while men tend to bond more with physical interactions (sex). Relationships take work and part of that is understanding the other persons needs.

Good luck with your talk.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

C3156 said:


> Also, when you have your discussion, focus on how you feel, not on a lack of sex. Men and women view intimacy differently and you need to explain clearly how her rejection effects you. Describe the frustration and inadequacy that you feel due to the lack of intimacy. Women bond with feelings and emotions (talking, cuddling, sharing feelings, ect) while men tend to bond more with physical interactions (sex). Relationships take work and part of that is understanding the other persons needs.
> 
> Good luck with your talk.


Perfectly said.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

C3156 said:


> Also, when you have your discussion, focus on how you feel, not on a lack of sex. Men and women view intimacy differently and you need to explain clearly how her rejection effects you. Describe the frustration and inadequacy that you feel due to the lack of intimacy. Women bond with feelings and emotions (talking, cuddling, sharing feelings, ect) while men tend to bond more with physical interactions (sex). Relationships take work and part of that is understanding the other persons needs.
> 
> Good luck with your talk.


:iagree:

There is a difference between "I need/want more sex" which she will hear as "I need/want to get off" and "I feel crushed (or sad or devastated or unloved) that you don't want to be sexually intimate with me."


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

C3156 said:


> Also, when you have your discussion, focus on how you feel, not on a lack of sex. Men and women view intimacy differently and you need to explain clearly how her rejection effects you. Describe the frustration and inadequacy that you feel due to the lack of intimacy. Women bond with feelings and emotions (talking, cuddling, sharing feelings, ect) while men tend to bond more with physical interactions (sex). Relationships take work and part of that is understanding the other persons needs.
> 
> Good luck with your talk.



This really deserve to be memorized!

Well said C3156!


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

C3156 said:


> There is a caveat (as always). Be careful about throwing out the "D" word. Once it is out there, you both will be thinking about it. No situation is insurmountable, but push come to shove, you have to be willing to back up what you say.


I agree with this as well. If my husband had said he wanted a divorce due to our lack of sex, I would have been sad, but I would not have changed and I would not have fought him. I would have concluded that we were better off apart and amicable than together and miserable, and that there might be better matches for each of us out there. 

I can also see a situation in which a husband brings up divorce as a consequence of not enough sex, thus leading the wife to conclude that there is nothing she can do to stop it. She might then check out of the marriage emotionally herself in preparation and anticipation of the divorce, leading to a worsening of the situation and perhaps, as you mention, infidelity. 

I cannot stress enough, as a woman having "been there," that when you don't desire your husband and cannot figure out why it is a hopeless and helpless feeling. Piling on the possibility of divorce is, most emphatically, NOT a libido enhancer and does NOT provide incentive to try and change. Use the D word with caution, and only if you are prepared to risk consequences counter to what you intended.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I think that its easy for women to get wrapped up in being a mom. Sure there are women that become mothers and remain sexy and sexual. I found motherhood sucked all the sexy out of me. I remember being emotionally exhausted and it felt that my husband wanted to take one more thing from me while I was already on empty.

So - I think its not an unusual situation to be in. That doesn't make it acceptable. 

I do think it is wise to come across as the other ways this lack of affection is harming your life. The eroding self esteem, the loss of confidence in your job and other areas, the degree to which you desire to be with your wife more than anyone in the world and how you at times want her so much that you have to sleep on the couch. These are things she can understand. These things cannot be erased by masturbation. These things cannot be erased by sex every 8 weeks.

About 10 years ago I was watching the HBO series Cathouse, which is about a brothel. One episode was specifically about the married men that come in. They were saying married men come in for two reasons. 1) Blowjobs that their wives are too good to give them. 2) They are willing to pay money for a prostitute to act like they are the most desireable man in the world. They pay to have a woman act like she cant wait to have sex with him. It wasn't the actual sex they came in for - it was to see some enthusiasm after years of what they get at home.

I haven't ever been LD, necessarily - but I remember that episode greatly changing how I acted towards sex and my husband. Here is always room for improvement.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Mo42 said:


> I am trying to find a way to make this one conversation effective as I do not want to have to have it again in a year.


Don't have this conversations yearly. Have them weekly until you both agree on what needs to be changed!


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Great post C3156.



> There is a caveat (as always). Be careful about throwing out the "D" word.


There are no do-overs after you drop this bomb. Show her you are capable of moving on and having a great life without her. Have her see a vibrant, energized Mo42 pursuing his life's purpose. Seeing it herself will ring the same bell without the ominous D word's echo.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Wow, my husband could have written this. We had the same dynamic in our relationship for years. When we were dating, before kids and marriage, we had sex very frequently and were well matched in our drives. After kids and homeownership and some typical marital difficulties, my libido completely disappeared. Over the years, we working on our marriage and it got much, much better . . . but my drive was still gone. I was okay with that, him not so much.
> 
> For years he tried to talk to me about it, but I didn't know what to do. We were never able to rebuild our intimacy because he felt rejected, isolated, and frustrated--and was frequently grumpy an depressed, which was a huge turn off for me. I wanted to want him, but didn't know how. I tried counseling. I tried "fake it til you make it." I kept myself fit and attractive and was generally really happy in my life. When I did feel like having sex, generally for a few days each much when I was ovulating, we'd have often have fantastic sex. Then nothing for weeks. It was killing my husband, and I couldn't see it.
> 
> ...


Um, would you call my wife and tell her this? I would be much obliged.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Thound said:


> Um, would you call my wife and tell her this? I would be much obliged.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In all seriousness, I wish more LD women would end up on TAM like I did--by accident of a random, desperate internet search for something ANYTHING that would make them want their husbands as much as their husbands wanted them. 

Part of the difficulty is that you can't make a woman want to change this about herself, and not all "LD" women are the same. If you have an otherwise loving relationship with your spouse but you think she is just not "getting it," why not ask her to read around on TAM? As I said, sometimes strangers can make us see what our loved ones can't.


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> when you don't desire your husband and cannot figure out why it is a hopeless and helpless feeling. .


As a woman on the other side of this, I want to point out that this goes both ways! It is an extremely hopeless, helpless, and painful feeling when your husband doesn't desire you and you cannot figure out why. When he KNOWS how important intimacy/sex is for you but won't engage.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I think that its easy for women to get wrapped up in being a mom. Sure there are women that become mothers and remain sexy and sexual. I found motherhood sucked all the sexy out of me. I remember being emotionally exhausted and it felt that my husband wanted to take one more thing from me while I was already on empty.
> 
> So - I think its not an unusual situation to be in. That doesn't make it acceptable.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup: wow, thank you for the info. So it wasn't the actual sex, but the enthusiasm. This is interesting. Is that episode available on YouTube?

:smthumbup:


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Question. Whose paying for the Brazilian wax job? If she's doing this, there has to be a reason. Now I'm not pointing fingers and saying she's stepping out on you but my point is this. 

I would let her know that if there is no sex then why are you advertising? Let her know that if she wants celibacy then there is no reason for her to spend hard earned money to look sexy when there is no sex. Tell her to grow her hair back and if she wants it then tell her to go get a job. 

Another thing. I would let her know how serious you are. If you have a spare room, show her the room and tell her that this is her new bedroom and when she wants to act like a wife then she's welcome back to the marital bed. No extra room? Put her sheets, pillow and blanket on the couch. Your the one going to work and you need a good night sleep in a real bed.

I can't for the life of me understand how someone can think everything is fine when they refuse to meet their husband or wife half way. It's like whistling through the graveyard.


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## bestyet2be (Jul 28, 2013)

Some differences to my situation; some similarities. You say "Sex is infrequent since we were married." Can we assume sex was frequent before you were married? For a few years after my wife and I were married, as well as before, she was very HD. Our decline was so gradual and insidious, it really took years for me to begin to understand it and finally react to it. If on those too rare times you do have sex she clearly finds it to be satisfying or even fabulous, that's the real kicker, and your situation is perhaps similar to mine.



Mo42 said:


> The hardest part for me is to sort of withdraw in a way (the work on yourself) and be 'upbeat' all the time...


Sounds like a very big mistake to me. I don't know much about the books you mentioned, but I'm skeptical. Even if you're not consciously pursuing a power struggle with her, you might as well be.



Mo42 said:


> Over the years of our marriage, we HAVE discussed this and my dissatisfaction. She always says it is her, not me, she does love me and loves being with me and just is never in the mood. She has the litany of excuses at hand when she knows I am and she still is not. There are times I will go sleep on the couch partly out of frustration, this bothers her b/c she wants me near her, she wants to sleep with me. (literally)


Since you love your wife, you will take her at her word, and put the very best possible interpretation on this. But not everything can be taken simply at face value, so here's a question: If it were the other way around, loving her as you do, can you even imagine not offering her a certain amount of "duty sex"???



Mo42 said:


> So...the last couple weeks I have been hinting...


People who are afraid of humiliation hint. People who are confident they are doing the right thing for the sake of their marriages are direct, and in fact display obvious humility, in the most positive sense of the word.



Mo42 said:


> ...I dont say much, and after a few mins I go and sleep on the couch.


And the next day you tell her exactly why. You explain to her this was positively painful. I've come to emphatically believe that failing to acknowledge that your spouse has the power to inflict pain on you is an extreme mistake, in this situation. You don't repeat yourself, and you don't nag, and don't allow yourself to shut down sexually. You do the same thing every day or at least every few days, as such situations arise. You are quietly confident because you know the long sweep of time ahead of you is favorable, because you are doing the right thing for your marriage. It may not seem so in the moment, as you head for the shower, of whatever, but that will be your attitude, as you simultaneously do anything else you can think of to improve your marriage.

You might find your wife is saying "yes" a lot more often than she's saying "no." But, at some point she might put the brakes on and say you're needy and insecure. You could tell here she has the ability to have a husband who's never needy or insecure again. But before you leave the room, to underscore the point, mention that there are a lot of benefits to keeping you insecure. Remind her she'd be giving up a lot of power and control. (You've heard the expert's saying that money and sex problems are often power and control problems in disguise, yes?) She might understand what's at stake. Hard to tell. Life's an adventure. Marriage is an adventure. You don't know how it's going to unfold. On a good day, you can try to look at that as part of the fun.


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## Philnamehere (Aug 29, 2013)

keeper63 said:


> ...See, in many instances, the LD partner likes things exactly the way they are (they get companionship, help around the house/help with kids, financial stability, they control the sex, etc.). To them, everything is 100% hunky dory. They have no ability to see what the rejection and emotional disconnect are doing to you, the resentment builds, and pretty soon there is nothing left...


Bingo! This is my life to a 'T'. I completely relate to this after 15yrs of marriage and 2 kids.


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## CASE_Sensitive (Jul 22, 2013)

Consider me a part of the couch crew


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> You'd think that hearing it from your own husband would make you understand, but I didn't understand. Sexual frustration and a marriage with no intimacy had impacted my husband until he had become someone I barely recognized. I also came to see clearly that he needed freely given sex with ME. What he needed could not be met by porn or masturbation or duty sex or even cheating. He.wanted.me.
> 
> Weirdly, my libido came crashing back instantly. He was out of town, but when he got home we talked for days and days and days to work through all this. Sex is better than it has ever been, and we've rebuilt the intimacy to a level we never had in our marriage. I can't say that keeping it that way is effortless--I work on my drive, my desire every day. I go to individual counseling to keep on top of resentment issues (which had killed our intimacy in the first place). Bottom line is I WANT to have this sort of connection with my husband.
> 
> I don't think you can scare or bully or threaten your wife into wanting more sex--not if you have the hope of moving on to a better, mutually satisfying sex life. But you can try and make her see that sex with HER is crucial to your health and happiness, that your marriage will erode without it. She is wrong to humiliate you or make you feel bad about having a drive. Once she understands this, what she does with the information will be telling.


I liked this post. I came to the conclusion that one true expression of love is to actively seek my partner's needs compared to mere acquiescence to statements of neglect.


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