# Not Sure If I Should Feel Like I Do



## andrew41 (Jul 29, 2015)

Long time lurker - first time writer.

My wife and I have been married 10yrs. Before we were married, and into the first year of marriage, we had quite a few arguments over the male friends she had at the time - including her ex boyfriend, and her expectation to still spend time with them and communicate. In pretty short order I was able to make her understand that for me, this was a dealbreaker and had to stop, and it did. She's even remarked over the years that since we have been married - how quickly her "male friends" dropped off the face of the earth - which seems to support what I've said to her all along - that most guys just stick around as long as there is hope for some attention from a woman.. men are hunters more than they are relationship seekers.

For the last 9 years, I've never had a reason to think there was anything inappropriate going on. She has kept relationships with men to a minimum, and in the workplace she doesnt really mingle. We each have work, a family, children, a home and a life and we are constantly busy with each other and all of that. Our priority is at home.

A couple of years ago though, she had to go on a business trip that included her director (who consequently she often says reminds her of me). I didnt think anything of it. She called me from the hotel that night and said she had one drink with the team in the lobby (that included her director who was staying in the same hotel) and was on her way to her room alone. Before the trip, she had been under consideration for a position as a manager working for the director and was excited about the position - it was all she talked about for weeks - and going on the trip was a confirmation that she was likely to get the job. She came home, and a few days later, her company hired another woman to fill the position... and my wife was crushed. For weeks, all I heard was anger toward this other woman - how much she hated her, refused to get along with her, and how mad she was at her director for hiring the other woman instead. Some nights over a glass of wine she even cried about it, which was strange to me because she is not a person who cries easily. 

Since then, the woman who ended up with the position has been expected to spend many business trips with the director on a regular basis and has basically abandoned her husband and children for business. The people in my wife's workplace even joke that the woman they hired is having an affair with the director, because they are out of the office continually at the same time - even on vacation days and lunch hours. I've tried to point out to my wife that shes actually quite fortunate not to have gotten the job because they would have expected the same from her... but it has taken 2 years for her to settle down over it.

Then, last fall, my wife had to travel overseas for business for a little over a week. She called me from work when she found out about it and told me that the trip would be coming, and I asked her if anyone else was going, and she said no. Then over and over for weeks she talked about how she would be travelling alone - and even the night before she left at dinner, the same. But when she went to bed that night, I scanned her work phone and found a few emails where she was telling a guy she worked with that he should stay in the same hotel that she's staying in overseas, on the same days she would be there, and discussing that she would drive him to and from the office over there. She was helping him work out the details with the travel department as well. I lost my mind. I came to bed feeling like I would throw up and eventually I ended up confronting her in bed. She said that she had been telling me she would be alone over there because she wasnt sure if the other guy was going on the trip, and that as such, she had been telling me the truth... but, it shook me really bad. When she left I was a wreck. I was bringing up all of her old male friends from a long time ago and how I didnt trust the way this went down. I tried to hold it together for the kids but every time she and I talked - I felt like I would throw up - because if she would omit an entire person going on the trip with her - what else would she omit?

we spoke daily in her evening hours and she said she was in her hotel. Her director here told her before she left that he had expected her to "go out" with the team over there for their late night partying on the town - but she swears to me she did not go out the entire time except to have dinner on her own - and that her director here didnt talk to her for two months afterward because of it. She did end up driving the other guy to and from work from the hotel, though. She said he was hung over every day.

When she came home it was weird, we had the need for immediate sex right after she came in and walked into the bedroom. She attacked me immediately. 

Then, in the next weeks, it was back to normal. Taking kids to extra curricular activities, work, home, vacations, everything has been normal. Winter, spring, and now summer. I see when I look at her email that she is still working with this guy pretty regularly, but she always tells me she does not really interface with him, which is odd. 

Both situations still irritate me, and I think about them when I am alone. Would anyone else feel weird about these two situations - or is it just me being paranoid from where she and I began years ago with her male friends hanging around? I'm lost at this point.

Thanks for your insight.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

There's not enough there to assume she was cheating at this point. If your gut is telling you that something is up, then you certainly should use the standard monitoring techniques (VAR in her car, checking cell phone records, spyware on her cell, key logger on her computer); but unfortunately work place A's are much more difficult to unearth. You will have to be patient and persistent.

There's nothing wrong with insisting that she doesn't cross reasonable marital boundaries, but you don't need to confront her about cheating unless you have irrefutable evidence.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't want to scare you but maybe the reason she immediately had sex with you is because she had sex with the guy the night before and wants to cover her tracks in case she is pregnant.
Like what badmemory said no more confrontations until you get evidence.
I suggest a pen var for her purse and a regular var for the house/car.
Sorry you are here.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

tom67 said:


> I don't want to scare you but maybe the reason she immediately had sex with you is because she had sex with the guy the night before and wants to cover her tracks in case she is pregnant.


Hadn't thought about that one Tom. Plausible. 

You see OP, a lot of us tend to think like former BS's. You've come to the right place.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think you need to chill. She hasn't done anything where you should suspect anything wrong, yet anyway. She seems to be doing a good job of keeping reasonable boundaries, most guys would wish their wives would do the same. Keep watching her but don't let her see you do it so she'll think you don't trust her.

Just as a side note, you should feel great to have a wife like her, a management level woman who is going to help you with expenses. My wife doesn't help with anything and I keep feeling crushed that all the financial burden is on me. Think yourself lucky that you don't have to deal with that.


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## andrew41 (Jul 29, 2015)

Thanks guys. Still hoping that others will read my OP and give their 2 cents as well.

With the sex when she came in from the trip in the fall, it was weird that she wanted to go at it right away - and it was hot. Usually after travelling long distances that is the last thing on her mind. That said, she'd have no luck covering up for a pregnancy with me - since well, I've had surgery to make sure I cant make more children ;-).

She began to try a few new things in the bedroom with me after the first trip I noted above. Which - I've asked her about - and she never had an answer for where she came up with the "new moves" until this spring when I asked her again and she told me that she read it in a cosmopolitan magazine in a doctor's office - but she never reads that kind of thing so... I don't know. 

Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me.


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## andrew41 (Jul 29, 2015)

I do feel pretty lucky that she is such a smart and hard working partner. I was married once before and in that marriage, I was the only one working outside the home - which was stressful and at times scary.

Maybe I should just chill a bit.

I do have visibility into her internet accounts and phone, and have the ability to use gps manually on that device if needed. I can also see a great deal of internet activity. A VAR I do not have. I think she would figure that out.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

you will get advice from people who have been burned and that will tend to be suspicious and suggest you essentially spy on your wife. 

you will get advice from people who may not have been betrayed who are likely to suggest you relax and be aware but not go overboard.

it sounds like the company your wife works for encourages a certain amount of socializing out of the office. that is not uncommon but it can also lead some to stray. I've seen some statistical evidence that cheating is not uncommon in conjunction with business travel. Personally I find companies that tolerate, even encourage, that sort of behavior less than desirable and certainly loose ethically. But we can't always choose where we work.

Yet, from all that you've related, even of your wife's company is one of those where loose morals are tolerated, it doesn't sound like she is necessarily partaking.

You also seem to me a bit preoccupied with what happened concerning make friends when first married. It is not uncommon to have some adjustments for people when they go from being single to being married. It doesn't seem from what you've shared that there is any evidence that either her behavior or attitude about male friends is the same now as when you were first married. She adjusted and changed as most married people do. That was then. This is now. Let it go.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

A bit more investigation would seem to be in order.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> A bit more investigation would seem to be in order.


Just rule it out like maybe var the car for a few weeks.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I think you need to make sure you stay aware of her work situation....wouldn't even say vigilant as I don't really see any red flag here EXCEPT her not telling you about the other guy traveling and you having to discover on your own.

I would be more concerned for you if she had hidden her phone, email, and other communications from you...but you say she hasn't.

Right now, IMO, it appears that your W made a foolish decision not to mention this other guy going on the trip because she was aware of your feeling about friends/ex from the start of your M....she would have been much wiser to immediately tell you when she knew this guy was going for sure and that she was assisting him on travel arrangements.

Being open about it would have help calm any suspicions you had...instead she withheld info and damaged your trust.

Foolish yes....but in the absence of other red-flags I certainly would not be hitting any panic buttons if I were you.

But I would never fall asleep at the wheel on what is going on at her work....in fact, I think no spouse at any time should be oblivious to their partner's work environment....workplace A's are too common to safely do that IMO.

btw....What are your W's thoughts on the position she didn't get now?

After all....it would seem to be very clear that this woman got the position, at least in part, because she is willing to be the manager's f*ck toy.

Your W may have lost out on that position because, after the first trip, POS manager realized she was never going to go there....so he went and found some woman who would.

Does she still view it as a missed opportunity?....or does she have a sense of relief that she doesn't have to deal with this a**hat manager on a close basis?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

andrew41 said:


> But when she went to bed that night, I scanned her work phone and found a few emails where *she was telling a guy she worked with that he should stay in the same hotel that she's staying in overseas, on the same days she would be there, and discussing that she would drive him to and from the office over there.* She was helping him work out the details with the travel department as well. I lost my mind. I came to bed feeling like I would throw up and eventually I ended up confronting her in bed. *She said that she had been telling me she would be alone over there because she wasnt sure if the other guy was going on the trip, and that as such, she had been telling me the truth..*.


Bull$h!t Her "truth" is simply a disguised "lie of omission".

Buy a semen detection kit and use it when you believe that she may be in contact with another man. Especially and immediately after her return from her out of town business trips.


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## andrew41 (Jul 29, 2015)

Dyokemm,

Thanks for your response. Being in the situation, when I am able to think rationally about it, I think your post is spot on. It is likely that she wanted to avoid telling me there was another guy going on the trip because of the "dark days" we experienced in the beginning of our relationship over her male friends/ex. That would explain the omission very well. I think when I found out, (and the fact that I had to find out on my own) I became spooked, and regressed right back to where I was 10yrs ago, and since then, I've questioned her actions a lot more as a result. I can see it that way when I'm able to be rational.

I'm keeping my finger on the pulse of everything I can where she is concerned - especially with work.

So often, it seems like (reading the posts on this forum) the workplace is a common ground for cheating and temptation. The trouble is, she works in a male-dominated field, which is why all of the arguments over male friends, her ex, and coworkers we had in the past. They were all in one way or another related to her workplace back then - but, that was her social circle at the time and it may not really mean anything beyond that. Still, often (and I hope I dont make anyone upset by saying so) it seems like the posts in this forum involve women specifically in the workplace. Yes there are many men who cheat at work - but I wonder if women being so relational in nature sometimes causes a blurring of the line a bit when interacting with men at work. I've often witnessed the "work wife" situation in the workplace where a male interacts with a woman in the workplace like a spouse rather than a co-worker. Dangerous territory. Sometimes she tells me about all of the personal things she knows about the guys she works with and I shake my head. I've told her - I dont know the relationship status of my male coworkers (there are no women in my office) with their significant others, I don't know about their children, I don't discuss their feelings - why? Because I am there to work, not have relationships. She knows everything about literally everyone she works with. 

Regarding the position she didn't get - I think my wife is aware that the woman they hired (who is about 10yrs younger than we are) has sold her soul, (if not her body) to the director to get where she is, and that she does nothing but travel and "live" her job - which is the polar opposite of what my wife regards as good or right at least when discussing it in my presence. My wife seems to be glad that she's not doing the "work" that the position requires - and acknowledges that the position was not described to her this way. She thought it would have been less travel and more of a technical role. The woman who took the position however, (and this is what still keeps my ears up) my wife still loathes, both for her ineptitude with regard to the skill required for the position and her overall "fakiness" and corporate ladder climbing drive. Why does that bother me? Because women can be catty - and what if she really hates her because my wife feels like she lost out on a contest of being more attractive or desirable to the director to get the job instead? But, there goes my mind playing tricks on me again.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

There is enough here to merit your suspicion - and stealth is advised now. But she is alerted to your suspicions now and you may never find out the truth short of a polygraph.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"what if she really hates her because my wife feels like she lost out on a contest"

Exactly why I asked you what her feelings on the situation are now.

Does she despise the woman because of what she was apparently willing to do to please the POS director?

Or does she feel like her chance slipped through her fingers and this woman snatched the opportunity afterwards?

In your position, I too would wonder about how my W really viewed that episode and the subsequent history/fallout.

If she felt like she really missed a golden career opportunity, I would be worried how she might react if a similar situation ever arose again.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

andrew41 said:


> Thanks guys. Still hoping that others will read my OP and give their 2 cents as well.
> 
> *With the sex when she came in from the trip in the fall, it was weird that she wanted to go at it right away - and it was hot. Usually after travelling long distances that is the last thing on her mind. *That said, she'd have no luck covering up for a pregnancy with me - since well, I've had surgery to make sure I cant make more children ;-).
> 
> ...


The new sex technique combined with the omission of the other guy on the trip would raise my suspicion too. It would be prudent to Velcro a VAR under the passenger seat of her car.

It almost sounds like she's jealous of woman who got the job. Could it be that she feels sexually rejected by the boss. 

Also, I definitely would not consider myself lucky to have a wife that had a job that takes her away from her family for days at a time.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

After 10 yrs. you would think she would know to tell if anyone else was going, after their shaky start, but since you have NOT been checking on her, she chose to lie even up to the night before leaving.
Nope, not buying it. DID she or didn't she ?? Can't say, but if not before, she sure seemed to be plotting to be close to him.
Also, you would think she would be relieved that she didn't get the position.

Knew a guy, his wife worked for a Col. traveled the world with him, he called, she jumped, never mind hubby and 2 lil boys, she jumped.
Yep, he drank the koolaid, and was burned.

All that to say this.
She KNEW she NEEDED to tell you. but she thought after 10 yrs, your guard was down.
She was plotting plain and simple.
How can you tell?? Bet those emails was DAYS before leaving, but even at dinner the night before, she was lying.

Never give the benefit of doubt where marriage is concern.

LAY LOW and VAR.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Andrew,

Two things caught my attention.

1) The fact that she knows the personal lives of the men in her company means she has crossed the line and allowed men to have intimate conversations with her. I've seen quite a few men who seduce women using a script and it goes like this

Small talk gain their trust.

Complain about their wives to future OW, OW feels sympathy for the future OM feels trusted by him

The future OW will trust the future OM to list to her complain about her husband. 

These conversations continue to grow in intimacy from there.

At the beginning these conversations might be shared with the future betrayed husbands, but eventually it goes silent as more and more boundaries are crossed.

2) The new and unexplained sexual tricks, ouch!, this is very worrysome, especially when coupled with the change in story about where they came from. My W all of a sudden started licking my underarms during interc, and orgasming regularly during interc which never happened before. This was caused I think by OM-2.

Tamat


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Is there another place your wife could go and work? I ask because that doesn't sound like a "family friendly" or "marriage friendly" environment when it comes to all the men and all the socializing that is expected. Perhaps you should encourage her to go do something else or better still, become a SAHM and look after the kids.

I did that with my wife in part because I made enough and we didn't need the income but also because I didn't like all of the guys at her workplace constantly trying to flirt with her. My wife is very attractive but she was smokin hot in those days but also very nice. A lot of men misinterpret niceness for interest and I got tired of it. I even made a concerted effort to show up at her job to take her to lunch from time to time just to let others know she was happily married and that they likely weren't competition for me.

My wife was always open about the things that may happen or get said at work, even the small things, so I never was suspicious of her but it still bothered me. Fortunately, she was never required to travel so that was good. If she had been, then I may have insisted on going as well or just had her quit and take a different job. I know how guys can be, as I was one of those dogs before I got married, so I don't look past that situation for a second.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Mostlycontent said:


> Is there another place your wife could go and work? I ask because that doesn't sound like a "family friendly" or "marriage friendly" environment when it comes to all the men and all the socializing that is expected. Perhaps you should encourage her to go do something else or better still, become a SAHM and look after the kids.
> 
> I did that with my wife in part because I made enough and we didn't need the income but also because I didn't like all of the guys at her workplace constantly trying to flirt with her. My wife is very attractive but she was smokin hot in those days but also very nice. A lot of men misinterpret niceness for interest and I got tired of it. I even made a concerted effort to show up at her job to take her to lunch from time to time just to let others know she was happily married and that they likely weren't competition for me.
> 
> My wife was always open about the things that may happen or get said at work, even the small things, so I never was suspicious of her but it still bothered me. Fortunately, she was never required to travel so that was good. If she had been, then I may have insisted on going as well or just had her quit and take a different job. I know how guys can be, as I was one of those dogs before I got married, so I don't look past that situation for a second.


Weren't we all dogs.
:iagree::iagree::iagree:0


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Definitely put a VAR in her car. Cheap and effective.

If she uses a PC at home, install a keylogger, again cheap and effective.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Andrew

Just be smart, keep your eyes and ears open.

But also consider your insecurities as well.

Trust your gut. It has not failed you so far.

Hm


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

A,

Regardless of suspicions, instinct, gut feelings... NEVER NEVER Confront with out rock solid proof. 
Bury your fears, do not tip your hat. Keep your eyes open and your ears tuned. Trust but verify. 

PS... 10 minutes of VAR from her car would of saved me years of pain.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Read this thing. Honestly I don't think you have much. Are there red flags? Yep. Above the norm? Yep.

Enough to ask her about it and not look foolish... NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Best guestimate of action.
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
Keep your eyes open and YOUR MOUTH SHUT!

Buy a VAR and do the under the seat thing for three days. Get good with it and secure it so even going over the worst railroad tracks it will not fall out! Instructions are in the top link of my signature. Learn exactly where all the settings are etc. If nothing after three days. STOP and go dormant.
When you hear about the next trip. REINSTALL THE VAR.

In the mean time. Flip a coin on an affair. Ive seen enough red herrings at this level of red flags to say its possible she did not have an affair. My gut, which is exceptionally accurate here, is undecided in your case.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Paranoia can ruin a good relationship. Ever seen Othello? 

Sounds like your W has good boundaries. It's not ok she didn't tell you another man was on her trip. Work travel can present temptation and opportunity. Healthy people avoid both. Going to dinner with 3 or more, avoiding excess alcohol are 2 ways to do so. (And avoiding drunkenness is a good business practice anyway. Just because you're expensing it doesn't mean you need to over imbibe.) 

Her dislike of the woman sleeping her way to the top is common. I've been in those environments, and the women really hate on them. No one respects them. Doesn't sound like your wife is envious, just p!ssed she was passed over for sleazy reasons.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

*When she came home it was weird, we had the need for immediate sex right after she came in and walked into the bedroom. She attacked me immediately. 
*

My wife basically did the same thing to me (after she had sex with the XOM).

After D-day I figured out what days she had sex with the XOM. When we started R and my wife was answering questions, I asked her about this. I asked her why did you insist on having sex with me after you just spent hours with the XOM?

Her response, "I could not orgasm with XOM, and I was still so excited I needed you to bring me to orgasm". 

When my wife was having cyber sex with another guy in 2010 she would have extreme orgasms and it made no sense to me in addition to our sex life changed at that time. She was remembering all the sex talk they had.


I can't say that your wife cheated or not. Perhaps she had fantasies about this guy and used you as a prop, pretending you were him.

I would follow the advice of a VAR in the car. and keep your mouth shut.

If you find nothing then you are a fortunate guy.


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

You have a right to be suspicious, but since you have access to her email you should have a handle on what is going on at work.

I would do like weightlifter says, keep your mouth shut and ears and eyes open. If you still can't shake your suspicions, then try the VAR. If she's talking to anyone inappropriately, it will be in her car.

But make sure you can't satisfy your suspicions in other ways first, because if she finds that VAR in your car, your marriage is going to be in serious trouble.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Andy my man, I just want to throw this out since many are saying, and you are thinking, that because she jumped you bones when she got back, its likely she was banging another guy. If you came back from a long trip and wanted your wife to put a little poon tang on you, would that mean you were banging another gal during your trip?
A few years back my wife went on a ladies church trip with her mother along. Within thirty minutes of returning, she and I were getting it on hot and heavy in the bedroom. Am I to suspect she was banging some guy while on the trip. Get f-cking real. 
Buy the way, women sometimes get advice on other sexual moves from other women and women's magazines. Pick up and thumb through a copy the next time youre in a grocery line.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Buy the way, women sometimes get advice on other sexual moves from other women and women's magazines. Pick up and thumb through a copy the next time youre in a grocery line.


This is true. This has been the case for a long time now & it's not just Cosmo. Old school mags like Ladies Home Journal have testimonials from men about what they enjoy. I've taken some tips on board over the years.....

I think your gut is telling you that something could be wrong. I think she knew that this other man was going on the trip before she said she knew. There are a number of reasons for her not telling you until the last minute, however, some of them innocent.

I don't think you have any clear indicators here. I would watch, but not assume anything untoward at this point.


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